text:
User talk:AlbertCahalan

Hello, welcome to Wikibooks.

I saw your requests on my talk page, and came here to reply. Most of the issues you have brought up are due to the Cookbook being a part of the overall Wikibooks project. The link to categories takes you to a list of all the categories used in all wikibooks. Commons has renamed this link to be more clear, perhaps we should as well. Feel free to suggest a change at the staff lounge. The same is true of the recent changes. All the recent changes in the English Wikibooks make it onto that list, and you're correct, random module does in fact take you to any module in the project. The thing all of Wikibooks share is that they are intended to be instructional projects. Other than that, it is quite a diverse project.

Adding "Cookbook" to the front of all pages is needed to keep the different wikibooks from walking all over each other. The Cookbook and the Gardening Book share many titles, so a disambiguation scheeme was implimented early on, and some other books also have conflicting pages (while the Cookbook doesn't have one, lots of books have a Table of Contents, for example). Early on (before I got here) the psudo namespace "Cookbook:" was chosen to be the standard used in the cookbook. Other naming conventions were chosen by other books.

In the past, seperate namespaces were suggested for each book, Help:Namespaces documents the discussion. While I think it is still possible to make "Cookbook:" a full fledged namesapce (which would eliminate the case-sensitivity problem) nothing was ever done about it. Additionally, on the Cookbook's talk page there was some early discussion of splitting the cookbook off to it's own domain, but again, this fizzled. New projects are discussed at Proposals for new projects at Meta.

I hope this helps you understand why the things are the way they are, and might motivate you to make things better. Happy editing, and thanks for all the contributions you've been making, they're great. Gentgeen 01:40, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

PS: to sign a comment, like I did above, just add four tildies { ~ ) to add a link to your user page and a date stamp. Three tildies leaves just your user name, while 5 leaves just a time stamp. Gentgeen

Deletionism
A simple majority does seem overly harsh, but I don't see any reason to up the limit to 85%. I think the policy ought to focus more on reasons for deleting, and setting policies which show when something is not appropriate rather than relying purely on votes. Something like the deletion requests process that Eloquence proposed might work better here than the standard Wikipedia VfD system. For example, if "getting a girl" does not fit the mission of Wikibooks, and already violates the policies of what can be included here, then it ought not matter how many votes it gets on VfD. Angela 19:34, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Question

 * pages with real content sometimes disappear (in clear violation of policy) without even a vote

Your statement interests me. Would you like to cite such an example? Dysprosia 13:08, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * I did look into that matter. However, my opinion is that the action taken was not done so in bad faith, for one. Regardless,
 * I need admin rights to even investigate this sort of thing.
 * Not necessarily. You can always ask another administrator to show you copies of deleted content; however in me saying this, I do not intend it to be a discouragement or disincentive for your request for adminship.
 * Thanks Dysprosia 21:11, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Albert, there is nothing saying that pages with content cannot be deleted: Jimbo himself agreed that the infamous Getting a girl "book" should be deleted. (Also, I'm not sure why you are convinced that the deletion of the Human cookbook entry was out of line.) Further, I would appreciate it if you would not slander me on other people's talk pages. We all have different ideas of what the ideal wikibooks would be, but we'll never get their through inuendo and slandering. You don't have to agree with me, but I'd expect anyone nominating himself to be an admin would act in good faith. MShonle 20:45, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Bean nomenclature
Hello Albert,

I am always happy to find someone else who prefers standard names!

Personally, I find blackeye more orthographically pleasing than the hyphenated, verbally conjugated form, and I would say the thing is clearly a bean, since I prefer to restrict the word pea to Pisum sativum. However personal preferences aside, I think Black-eyed pea has a strong case for being the standard name because it wins the Google test by a large ratio (77,800 hits over 14,100 for Black-eye pea, 2,810 for Black-eyed bean, and fewer for the other obvious variants), and because that's the title of the Wikipedia article.

On the other hand, cowpea beats all of those names in the Google test. Although the term can be used to include the yardlong bean, the crowder bean, and the catjang, we might consider them interchangeable in the kitchen.

As for the black/turtle/black turtle/black (turtle) bean, I think the question is difficult. Black bean is the familiar term for me, and I believe it is the most common term, but it is unfortunately ambiguous. Besides the small black variety of Phaseolus vulgaris (which I assume is the one we are talking about), it could also be taken to mean (at least) the Chinese fermented black bean (used to make black bean sauce), the Indian black gram, or the black varieties of the soybean or the azuki bean.

Turtle bean is clearly a much less used term, but it is far from unattested. It's commonly given as a synonym, and I believe it is unambiguous. Here are some references:

 * Woodland Foods
 * University of Florida Agricultural Extension
 * BBC Recipe
 * Bean Thinking
 * Botany.com
 * Foodreference.com

Although I acknowledge that it is not a perfect choice, I believe that black turtle bean has the advantages of both unambiguity and understandability, and is the best of the available names.

What do you think?

Regards, Pekinensis 02:51, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Hello Albert,

Thank you for your prompt response, and apologies for my tardy one.

As a philosophical point, I disagree with your criteria for judging which things judge as conflicts and which do not, but I have no strident objection to using the name black bean, assuming a clear explanation of the possible confusions, along with appropriate redirects.

(The conflict would come when a user with a bag from an Asian market, labeled Chinese black beans, tried to find information here, under that name. A black bean soup made this way would likely shock the poor user!  Granted, it's unfortunate that food manufactures, importers and so on are often very casual about names, but I don't have much hope for improvement in this.)

If I understand correctly, we can both live with the names black-eyed pea and black bean, with explanations and redirects as appropriate. If we are in agreement, I am happy to take care of implementing this.

Regards, Pekinensis 23:49, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I hope it doesn't sound like I'm trying to dodge this, but I'd like to wait a little longer until a clearer consensus forms.

In the meantime, what's the page you're trying to move? I can do it for you if you want. Dysprosia 05:13, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Done. Don't forget to sign your comments in future by using ~ . Dysprosia 00:09, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Cookbook:Bacon Cheese Omelet
Hi AlbertCahalan,

As you requested, the image problem is now fixed. <br clear="all"> is always a useful code to use when you want the next paragraph to start on a completely new line without elapsing into the previous line. Hope this is useful to you :-)  -- Mkn 03:03, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I would refer you to PC World June 05 issue, pg. 110, "Budget Linux PCs..." ;-)--Naryathegreat 23:37, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Well, I would tend to trust a magazine which when commenting on trends on the internet, such as certain types of ads, admits to using them itself or having used them in the past. This kind of honesty seems to lend credibility to their other stories. And, honestly, if that's your attitude I hope you don't trust your coffee maker; it might be biased towards Folgers brand...;-)--Naryathegreat 00:06, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Adminship
Sorry for the delay in this response, but there doesn't really seem to be consensus on your adminship, so I won't promote you at the moment. If you have any current needs to delete redirects or whatever, feel free to let me know (might be better to use wikipedia:en:User:TUF-KAT than this one, especially for urgent fixing of mass vandalism and the like). TUF-KAT 03:11, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I can't believe the "almost consensus" just fell apart. Has anyone checked to see if any of them are sock puppets or from suspicious IPs? Anyway, I hope you don't get discouraged and you continue to help the project! I too have a unique personality and it's hard for some people to "figure me out". Please do keep on trying. MShonle 01:59, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Cookbook navigation
I don't know if there's any standard navigation. You say you use "|" to seperate the links. Other pages I see using "|" for links tend to be placed at random with no structure. I used ">" to show that it's a subsection of another page: I didn't know someone else was also trying to standardize the links, so I'll let you get on with it.
 * Cookbook | Index of Ingredients | Basic foodstuffs | Cereal | Corn
 * Cookbook > Index of Ingredients > Basic foodstuffs > Cereal > Corn

-- Mkn 16:18, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Recipe rant
You say that my recipe for Cookbook:Sponge Cake is incorrectly weighted. You are talking patent nonsense.

The recipe is intended to be scalable. It is not feasible to define a fixed weight for the ingredients in this recipe, for the very reasons you explain. The recipe is five generations old (the earliest I have traced it to is my grandmother's grandmother) and has been rigorously and constantly tested over those 140+ years: I have never tasted a better cake. Have you actually tried this recipe?

If the eggs have lost water, the amount of flour, sugar, etc will have been reduced accordingly by this recipe.

Also, your ridiculous 'fact' about most households not possessing a kitchen scale is ludicrous. If I were to define the amount of butter as being 'half a pound' or something like that then the recipe would be thrown off proportions, and also I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people wishing to bake to possess a $5 scale!

goodgerster 19:28, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

wikipedia and wikibooks do not share accont data
I know that; I prefer having people leave messages where I'll see them. You can sign your messages with b:User:AlbertCahalan if you want, or do the reverse of what I did. --SPUI 17:37, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Wikistrangeness
copied from User talk:Redlentil

 * I'll jump in here with an answer. The database at wikipedia has been having problems with new pages not showing up immediatly. If the same new page is saved twice, it appears twice on the new pages list, and the servers have also been having problems saving pages but not displaying the results.  As wikibooks is hosted on the same servers, it's likely that the same problems would appear here. Gentgeen 01:37, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Wikibooks
I have archived your adminship nomination without promoting you, but I have re-nominated you because it was so close. Please either accept this new nomination or remove it from the page. TUF-KAT 16:48, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Regarding Boit, he nominated himself on Nov. 21, and hasn't received any support (or opposition). I'm interpreting that as a clear lack of consensus and have removed the nomination.  You are free to re-nominate, if you like, but I think six months is plenty of time to get support. TUF-KAT 02:13, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Vegans
Yeah, i know i didnt get rid of them all; when i started i didnt realise there were so many. I thought that before i completely change the style of the page i should announce what im doing on the talk page. I'm planning on setting up a new page for a table comparing different products in a table and putting a link to the table at the bottom of the page. The bellman 00:16, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Naming Conventions and Cultural Sensitivity
Thanks for the helpful comment that you made on my talk page when I first started about a week or so ago.

Regarding the discussion on naming conventions... We both agreed that it does not matter what a page is called, as long as the displayed name was consistent within a list. Why then are you insisting of moving the names of the pages I create to all upper case when there is no formal naming convention? I've tried to leave yours alone.

More seriously, you have moved the name of every page that I have created under titles that use my local term for items to Americanisms (I'm a New Zealander) without any discussion on its talk page (I found that quite offensive, and made a comment on the talk pages the first couple of times that you did it). Even though, in every case, I've tried to to provide a redirect from all of the other names that I could think of at the time. Worse, in bake ware, when you moved oven tray to cookie sheet, you removed the link from the contents list to oven tray (making it a virtually orphaned page). You should realise that there is an international audience for this cookbook, and we need to list all of the known terms for items in lists to facilitate use by people from other cultures. Why not just leave the names as they are, and be satisfied that a redirect has been provided from the term that you like to use (if there isn't one, feel free to create it). I have fixed your changes made to the Bake ware section. Cheers, Donovan. 23:10, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Regarding really obscure names (on User_talk:Geocachernemesis)
Yes, oven tray or baking sheet may be less popular terms than cookie sheet, but I've ensured that I've included a reference to other common terms in my articles (e.g., An oven tray (also known as a  baking sheet or cookie sheet) is...). My main concern is that you are moving pages unilaterally, without any prior discussion and consensus on the talk pages, and without any clear mandate to do so (as far as I can see; I'm beginning to sound a bit like the UN ;)). See Talk:Cookbook:Beater where we discuss it after the fact, and Talk:Cookbook:Waffle Maker where I'm surprised that you did it again. Later, I didn't bother to comment again on the individual Talk pages.

On Wikipedia, there are guidelines for handling this kind of problem. There, pages are generally left in the original type of English, because much animosity has been caused by people correcting the spelling on pages in the past (just because they didn't like the way that it looked). I don't think that Google constitutes a majority; we need feedback from real users. You say that my policy of including all of the more obscure terms for an item in the list is cumbersome and annoying for you. That may be so, but as this cookbook is a truly international project, we need to cater to the needs of other cultures too.

As far as capitalization goes, you previously argued that it does not matter how a page is capitalized, as broken links will be made whatever the convention is followed, and the display name can be changed easily in lists. So, it doesn't matter if we agree to disagree. I can continue to use Wikipedias page naming convention, and you can use yours. If you really dislike linking to my page titles, then simply create a page with your favourite format of name, and then redirect it to mine.

I know I'm new to the cookbook, but I have a contribution to make. I know it seems that I'm coming in and fiddling with things in your domain, but I have the same goal, I want to be part of creating a truly useful cookbook. When there are definite written guidelines to follow, I will happily follow them. Cheers, Donovan. 01:23, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I notice that the definite written guidelines were written almost entirely by you, so of course they are going to say what you want them to.;) But, I do think there needs to be some sort of vote to settle the matter once an for all. I'm sure that you will survive the lack of a few capital letters in my page names. BTW, the whole reason I'm creating so many pages, is because I read on Grunt Work that more images were need for ingredients and utensils. So, I'm helping out by adding some.

Yes, I'm quite familiar with American cultural imperialism. It may surprise you to learn that a majority of the world's English speakers don't speak American English (think about India). I'm sure that most American English speakers are intelligent enough to work out how to read an article on the oven tray (when redirected from cookie tray), as it is pointed out that it is the same as a cookie tray at the beginning of the article.

Google is not an administrator for the cookbook, and I don't think that it should be majority rule all of the time. I have simply been saying that it would have been more polite to take the cautious approach and leave the pages I created as they were. As it is, I'm getting a bad first impression of the community here. It feels like it has to be, your way, or no way. Cheers, Donovan. 03:07, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I didn't intend to imply that you had written the guidelines with me in mind. But, the naming section is your work, and appears to be your opinion.

I'm sorry to hear that the administrators have been heavy handed with you. But, a deletion by an administrator is not the same you moving the names of others' pages.

I know an international cookbook seems like too much trouble to you, but I'm willing to give it a go. If you think that the wiki is hostile to Americans, then you should try being in my shoes for a change.

Anyway, I had better get back to adding my photos, otherwise I'll never finish. Cheers, Donovan. 09:00, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Regarding sugar formatting
I'm sorry if my edits were not properly justified. I'm using Mozilla Firefox, and for some reason I was getting huge vertical gaps between sections. I thought that it would be best to use the simplest mark up possible.

I know that it's unconventional to have the images in that order (white then brown), but they look unnatural in the other order (brown then white), the perspective is all wrong (try both combinations for yourself). It doesn't really matter if the images don't match exactly to the sections for such a short list, as they are only there to give a general impression of the topic of the list.

I'm also revisiting some of the pages that I've added images to, and changing their size to the standard thumb size (180px; i.e., by not specifying their width), unless there is a good reason to use a larger version (e.g., a single highly-complex image). This should help to save bandwidth (users can simply click on the thumb for a larger view). Also, if and when Wikimedia changes the standard thumb size in the future, our articles will still look presentable. Cheers, Donovan. 00:35, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I'm obviously a bit rusty, and I tend to avoid using   . I understood what you were trying to do, but as you see, it looks better with white sugar at the top. Cheers, Donovan. 01:12, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Campfire trout
Oops, I accidentally removed the step that requires bacon. I'll go add it back in. Thanks for finding that. Gentgeen 20:45, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

User:Ivyboy
Hey, thanks for helping to clean up Ivyboy's latest bout of vandalisms - in particular the fact that he usurped my userpage... Well, I'm off to see if that's worth an insta-ban. - Bulbaboy 19:06, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I've warned the user because it doesn't look like he's been given any real warning on his talk page. I'll watch him carefully (after I'm done sleeping :P) and block him if he continues.  I hope you don't mind giving him a chance before blocking him...it can be very discouraging for new users to get blocked, and he might just be very unfamiliar with the way things work.  I know he/she's being real irritating, but I've found that (in my experience) it's much more helpful in the long run to give some advice on how to edit productively rather than resort to blocking right away.

 * Warm regards, Frazzydee|✍ 05:04, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Replied to on your talk page. - Bulbaboy 06:25, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Placenta Recipe
G'day Albert. Sorry for the delay in replying to your request.

An entree for two:

250grams of fresh human placenta (chop into fine strips) 1 onion 2 cloves of garlic, chopped. 1 Tablespoon of olive oil Rosemary Salt Pepper Cumin Rice noodles Red capsicum Shallots

Method: Cook onion in olive oil until is is transparent. Add chopped garlic. Toss in placenta. Cook quickly. Add a dash of fresh rosemary and 1/2 tspoon of cumin. Add a pinch of salt and ground pepper to taste. Place on a bed of rice noodles and garnish with thin slices of red capsicum and shallots.

YUMMY!--203.217.58.148 Maustrauser 14:14, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Healthy/healthful
Thanks for the tip Albert. English is not my native language. Could you sign your post next time? GoodStuff 06:58, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

procps
So I've read in several places that you were involved with "procps" but I never bothered to follow the link; then eventually I realized what it was. So although this isn't the best place for it, here's my personal thanks for your work: Thanks! Kellen T 23:48, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Adminship
Please see your section in Requests for adminship. Thanks. - Aya T C 02:24, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Deleting redirects
When deleting redirects, ensure all backlinks have been updated to the target, otherwise someone will just add it in again.

 * Special:Whatlinkshere/Coookbook:Rosemary

Aya T C 19:52, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Banning users
Hey, since you're an admin, I figure you're one of the best people to bring this up to. Dunno where to post suggestions for banning people, but User:Mofododo and User:Tinkle Toy together uploaded an undesirable image and set it to display on the front page. The image in question is Wikisource.jpg. Nmontague 23:18, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Resolved, user blocked, and damage fixed. You did the right thing in reverting the pictures. You could have also uploaded a non-offensive image over the top of the offensive one. Thanks for helping to fight vandalism on Wikibooks. Geo.T 01:03, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Request for a small rewrite
Hi AlbertCahalan, I hope it's ok to post here.

An expert user added a lot of detail about shells to BSD and Linux, but s/he lost your useful qualitative comments for newbies in the process. Could you look at this, and if possible work your comments into hirs? If you can comment on differentiating the other shells from a newbie perspective, that would be helpful too. Btw, I didn't understand why csh was incompatible or why sh was less-friendly (no backspacing, at all? That's the one that makes me unhappy when logging into a strange shell). Milo 4.252.99.104 08:27, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

- Bash is well-suited to both interactive use and shell programming. Most BSD distributions use the less-friendly sh for the root account and for scripts, while using the incompatible csh for general interactive use.
 * Bash is the default shell in Linux, and in the MacOS X distribution of BSD.

- + * bash, an extended version of the original sh is the default shell on most Linux operating systems as well as on MacOS X. bash is well- suited to both interactive use and shell programming and is used for both on these systems. Many of these systems link sh to bash. +    + * FreeBSD, NetBSD and DragonFlyBSD default to using csh for root and new users, with pdksh, a completely sh-compatible shell, for use with scripts - linking pdksh to sh. OpenBSD defaults to a modified pdksh which has extended functionality. csh is the default for shell usage because of it's Unix heritage, which traditionally favours csh to other shells. -

Wikibook: C Programming
Thank's for fixing the section on relational and logical operators. Back when I first learned C, expressions such as 10 > 4 were not guaranteed to evaluate to 1. The only guarantee was that they evaluated to some non-zero number, sometimes it would be -1. That's why I was refraining from using 1 as the true value. But my descriptions were certainly unsatisfactory. I'm glad you noticed the omission of the shift operators in the bitwise operator section as well. I knew I was forgetting something. Unlike you, I've got no objection to defining false and true values, but these would be strictly for assigning to variables, not for testing against. Testing against them is asking for problems.

I also noticed you had to tone down some of the editorializing against gotos. I've had to tone the editorializing down in other places as well, like using macros for instance.

I've written much of the section on pointers. Sometimes my descriptions are rather terse and not very clear. You might have something to add in that section too. Of course some of the earlier sections in the book really need some reorganization. Rodney Drenth --71.32.166.119 06:53, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Editions
You said: ''Teaching any sort of class from a live wiki would be insane. Never mind the bad changes: a really nice reorganization could seriously mess up a sylabus''

 * That's why I think we should make a plan where if books reach a first edition or v1.0 stage we should provide a "stable build" of it. Either a PDF or just some locked pages. I think this would also have other good effects: It would focus book development to reach that first edition goal, instead of contributors spending more time on tangents and less on the core material. Naturally for the cookbook this model wouldn't apply, since making the cookbook is much more like making wikipedia, whereas making a ciriculum book is much more like making a kernel. --MShonle 00:39, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

re: could use some help

 * I've looked at all of them at this point. All have been rv'd except polyparadigm's cheesecake recipe, which I'll ask him to resolve. Kellen T 05:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Re:
round here, we...

* sign comments on talk pages with four tilde characters ("~", left of the "!" on a QWERTY keyboard) * use talk pages for talk * don't edit other people's user pages (add a new section to their talk page)

Oops.

* add to the bottom of a talk page

Only if it's a new discussion or issue.

* don't edit other people's comments, excepting signature and indentation repair

which I did not do

* don't move other people's comments, excepting archival (you'd best not attempt it)

Which guess what? It's exactly what I did. I consider most of the content in that wikibook trash and I certainly consider the politics GNU / Linux crap to be trash. I was archiving it.

''In theory I could revert your comment moves without reverting your comments, but your comments were mostly just being rude. Why bother to preserve them? If you think you have a useful and productive comment to make, go ahead. Remember to sign it, with or without an account.''

''Consider this your warning that I might find justification to block you. If I remain unsure, I might request a 3rd party to do that.''

''I suggest that you get an account. Edits from well-known accounts are much more respected, especially when there is a history of useful contributions.''

You're just a brutish lout that doesn't like having it rubbed into his face that you know nothing meaningful about a subject you weighed into. Like a heavy stone dropped into a lake, causing nary a ripple. 24.200.176.92 02:04, 27 October 2005 (UTC)24.200.176.92

My Next Book
I want to start a book on Electrical Communication schemes, and I have laid out a general outline here on my user page. At the moment the outline is pretty extensive, and may even need to be split into 2 different books (analog/digital or systems/networks). My proposed coverage of internet topics will be from a low-level perspective, so i dont step on any toes at the compsci bookshelf, or the computing bookshelf. Also, the section on analog communication schemes needs to be expanded. Anyway, you've always been a good help to me, and i wanted to get your opinion before I put this book into action. --Whiteknight T C E 12:34, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Re: Image scaling
I noticed your reversion after I had uploaded a new one fixing a note stem. I'll use scaling in the future..Thanks.

Evolution of Operating Systems Designs
Albert, you simply don't understand the subject matter and I'm convinced you never will. As a result of this, things you add are almost okay until they can be assimilated (unless they're interpretations in which case they're crap and have to be neutralized, like your notion that voice recognition is unworkable) but things you delete all have to be reverted. You simply do not understand. So stop fucking with me and do not delete stuff. I don't enjoy cleaning up the messes you leave behind under the pretense of "fixing" things.

Case in point, Unix file descriptors are low-level, flat and centralized, so they're not a kind of capability but merely examples of a kind of capability I identified. And while adding this redundant example, you deleted a reference to capabilities of a different kind. Great fucking job; a net loss of information.

Oh and Albert? The reason you will never, ever understand OS design is because you are contemptuous of it. This fact is evident in everything you have written, everything you have deleted, everything you have done, from Day 1. And that is precisely why I am contemptuous of you. Not because you are contemptuous of OS design or because you don't understand it. No, it's because you think you do understand it despite being contemptuous of it. But you can't because no one can, and your resistance to that universal truth makes you a knuckle-dragging bonehead. 24.200.176.92 11:07, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Listen Cahalan you little shithead, I got myself out of your stupid biased book because you dominated it. Now I'm talking about the subject I want to talk about from the perspective that I want to talk about it (it's in the goddamn title of the book) which is a perspective you deliberately claimed was worthless so guess what? Stay the fuck away from it! Do NOT dare to fucking undermine it you asshole. You're trying to subvert a book so that it no longer even matches the title, which is DESIGN, by putting in pejoratives and insults throughout (and I consider dismissing my definition as "academic" to be a pejorative given that the entire book is supposed to be fucking academic). The next step is to just revert your edits in that book sight unseen, which is something I don't think I have ever done but you've reserved yourself a special place in my heart with your deeply insulting, dismissive behaviour. Go to hell Cahalan and stay there. 24.200.176.92 01:53, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I fully support keeping the subject of the new book in line with the title. I don't however support throwing vicious and unjustified insults at mainstream computing and other wikibooks contributers. In keeping with the new book title it is appropriate to discuss many failed designs, no matter if the failures were technical or business-related. FYI, my career has included a job as a developer of a non-UNIX (no shell, /dev, or fork) real-time distributed OS with a nanokernel. You could probably play buzzword bingo with that. I'm sorry that you find my behavior insulting. How would you feel about my behavior if I were to act more like you do? AlbertCahalan 03:14, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Welcome back
Nice to see you around again. Kellen T 10:12, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Somebody has you on their watchlist. Kellen T 19:22, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I have a new camera. :-) See the Cookbook:Egg Roll page. AlbertCahalan 00:08, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Reporting Vandalism
I would like to report 80.227.58.7 for vandalising Wikibooks:Book of the month page. I have already reverted the changes.

Beekeeping
Hi! I haven't been on Wikibooks in ages. I just logged back in today and saw your message left in April 2005. Do you still need any help with Beekeeping? If so, just let me know what you'd like to do with the page. -- Mkn 17:38, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Collaboration of the Month
I just wanted to let you know that Reverse Engineering is nominated for Collaboration of the Month, and we need a few more votes to get it passed. If we can get that book up onto the main page, i think we can draw alot of contributions for it. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 17:17, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

General voting rules/Proposal
I want to call the attention of all wikibookians, especially active admins to the discussion about the new voting policy. Wikibooks currently does not have a concrete voting policy in effect, so the adaptation of this policy will potentially create immediate differences in the way business is conducted here. Due to large amounts of discussion, changes, and dissention, there are several versions of this policy being considered:

 * Version 1 Written by User:Whiteknight
 * Version 2 Written by User:Jguk
 * Version 3 User:RobinH's revision of Jguk's version
 * Version 4 Written by User:Kellen
 * Version 5 Whiteknight's Revision of Kellen's Version.

Also, there are additional issues being discussed, such as the inclusion of a "minimum contributions" clause, that will limit users with less then 20 votes from editing. Also, there is a proposed clause that would allow this 20 vote minimum to be raised in response to abuse.

I am sending this same message to all currently active admins. I hope you are able to come in and give your opinions on this matter. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 20:46, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism
Could you do a favor for me? I need an administrator to delete part of the history of The Computer Revolution. Someone vandalised this page and the vandalism has been reverted, but they also vandalised the edit summary, so every time I look at the history of this article I see the word ____ written over and over again. I understand if you don't want to do it, you might not want to if you don't want to look at words like that. Thank you! --24.71.223.148 19:21, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Your post on User:24.71.223.148
Hi Albert,

Actually, we can do that (in fact, I already did it several days ago). It's a multi-step process, but it can be done. -- SB_Johnny | talk 19:49, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I have no idea why that's a red link. I'm referring to this.-- SB_Johnny | talk 19:53, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Pictures
As you can see at the top of this page, "All unlicensed images uploaded to wikibooks before November 1, 2006 will soon be deleted." You have uploaded images and some of them are untagged. You can see them here. Please review them and add appropriate tags. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me. --Think Fast 04:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be pushy.  The quote about unlicensed images was up at the top of the page when I posted the message, but it has been taken down by now.  This is also what causes the worthless link.  Sorry again. --Think Fast 03:47, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Acetone peroxide synthesis
I have proposed the acetone peroxide synthesis for deletion. What do you think? Ewen 14:23, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Cookbook-eggroll-wrapping.ogg image
You uploaded Cookbook-eggroll-wrapping.ogg as a image. It has no copyright status, and cannot be executed because it contains malicious code. Can you please remove it, ASAP!

Wikibooks Issue Guide VfD
The work Issue Guide was tagged for deletion on Wikibooks, your input would be welcomed. --Panic 17:43, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Cookbook fried fish
You wrote to use "very hot" oil. Exactly what temperature should be used for your recipie?

Ensure
I's just wondring you like to say ensure in your recipes. Do you drink ensure. I do. It's real good. I use it to loose weight

Inactivity
So you're aware, you're up for removal of your adminship due to inactivity. The request will be placed at Meta in one month's time. Thanks for your service; you're welcome to request adminship again if you return to Wikibooks. — Mike.lifeguard | talk 21:48, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Further Instructions for Interpreting Pictures of LCD Displays
Mr. Cahalan, can you offer more detailed instructions for interpreting pictures taken of LCD screens displaying http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Zone_plate_boys.png ? For instance, the caption for the image says to "...locate the innermost non-central set of circles in the large grey zone-plate region. This will inform you about image frequency limits, here expressed as pixels/wave." How do I translate what I see/photograph into hard numbers. Thank you.

title: User talk:AlbertCahalan


text:
Cookbook:Gluten-Free

 Recipes appropriate for this diet are being categorized at Category:Gluten-free recipes - look there for a list.

What is Gluten?
Gluten is a protein most notably found in wheat, but also present in a number of other common grains. It permits the flexibility of wheat flour as a baking material. Gluten's elasticity allows the cells that form in bread, and keep baked goods from crumbling. The elasticity of gluten increases when it is worked and decreases if it is permitted to rest.

Where is it present?
Gluten is present in the following grains: wheat (including spelt and triticale), barley, and rye and almost any foods made therefrom; although oats are not themselves dangerous they are (certainly in the USA) contaminated to some degree with wheat and must be, at best, a suspect ingredient. Gluten may be present in many unexpected places. Fermented, undistilled alcoholic beverages made from these grains do contain gluten, as may such seemingly innocuous products as cold cuts, soy sauce, or hard candies. Additionally, many ingredients that are commonly found in processed foods, such as modified food starch, can be made from wheat and therefore contain gluten.

Another place you will find gluten, though not obvious, is in the production of many foods that do not contain wheat or substances in their ingredients. One common example of this are foods that do not contain gluten in their recipe, but the conveyor belts where the food is processed is dusted with flour to prevent sticking. Many "energy bars" fit this description.

There is no other way to know if this is the case by reading the label; you must call the vendor to be sure.

Why Gluten Free?
This diet is necessary for those with gluten sensitivity, gluten intolerance and auto-immune diseases like Celiac Disease. A gluten-free diet can be useful for those suffering from an allergy to one or more of the grains (mainly wheat, barley and rye) this diet excludes. There are over 190 medical conditions that have been linked to gluten sensitivity and gluten intolerance, Celiac Disease being one of them. Celiac Disease is often still undiagnosed. Some people find that a gluten-free diet is beneficial for children with autism. It should be noted, however, that there is no evidence for an autism-gluten link. A distinction is important, because wheat and gluten are high quality food sources, not to be rejected on the basis of unfounded speculation.

It is important to note that Celiac Disease is NOT itself an allergy, but an auto-immune disorder - the body rejects its own digestive proteins used to process gluten and produces antibodies against them. In essence, the body is fighting itself, in the presence of gluten, and doing damage to the small intestine in the process. Celiac Disease becomes a two-fold issue due to the damage done to the villi in the small intestine creating a nutrient malabsorption problem that is not reversible.

How can gluten be avoided?
Careful and constant reading of ingredients is necessary to purchase truly gluten free foods. If flour (which means "wheat flour" unless otherwise specified), starch (including "modified food starch", "food starch"), malt, or any grain containing gluten is present, do not purchase the food. Unfortunately for the person with gluten sensitivity or gluten intolerance, it may be necessary to also investigate every step of the handling of the products, due to widespread wheat contamination of certain foods by way of shared equipment, containers, and processing rooms. Cross contamination is a big issue that many do not think about when it comes to storing, handling and preparing food. Finally the utensils, equipment, and surfaces for cooking and eating must be free of accumulations containing gluten, especially ones which have been hardened on by heat, especially in toasters and bakeware.

A gluten-free diet can only be achieved by complete removal of all gluten from your foods, medicines, and any cosmetic products which will accidentally enter the GI tract (in practice, probably all of them); reducing the amount will not be a sufficient treatment. Be aware that gluten can be hidden in many processed foods and products you may normally use.

Cooking gluten-free
To cook appetizing gluten-free meals, it’s a good idea to be aware of what function the flour is performing in your recipe before you attempt to replace it. Wheat flour can perform multiple functions: thickening, binding, adding flavour, changing texture, and absorbing moisture. No alternative to wheat flour can do all these things in the same way as wheat flour. The most difficult behaviour to replicate is gluten's binding ability.

For this reason it is commonly advised that you mix several flours or starches when substituting for wheat. Different mixtures are suggested: no one mixture is ideal in all cases, and experimentation and customization are advised.

Many, if not all, gluten-free products do not have preservatives, so it is important that they be kept frozen or used soon after purchase. Do not store cooked gluten-free breads, cakes or confections for days at a time, or they will rapidly degrade and mold. Foods containing a significant proportion of potato starch, a common ingredient in gluten-free breads, are particularly susceptible to spoilage.

You must also be aware of the presence of gluten on the surfaces and utensils you use. Flour gets in the air and can't be cleaned. So avoid cooking one thing that is non-gluten free and gluten free in the same area when using flour. Also make sure you thoroughly clean all surfaces and utensils you use for both. Remember, you can never be too careful when it comes to your health.

Other useful starches and ingredients
Anything containing natural oils can become rancid at room temperature. Refrigerate flours in airtight packaging.

Amaranth flour
Amaranth flour The yield of grain amaranth is comparable to rice or maize. It was a staple food of the Aztecs, and was used as an integral part of Aztec religious ceremonies. Amaranth is a complete protein.

Chia
Chia seeds produce a gel-like substance when moistened that can assist when baking raised doughs. They also function as an egg replacement in baked goods. Ground chia seed can make the end product softer and more pliable.

Cornstarch
Cornstarch is ideal for thickening, but does not have a pleasant flavour. Too much corn starch in a liquid sauce will give a jelly-like consistency. In baking, corn starch often gives a more pleasant texture, but can give a very hard, dense consistency.

Flaxseed
Flaxseed meal produces a gel-like substance when moistened that can assist when baking raised doughs, and can also be used as an egg susbstitute in baking.

Millet flour
Millet flour Millet flours are also known as Bajari, Rotla, Bhakri, Rotti. Millets, like sorghum, are predominantly starchy. The protein content is comparable to that of wheat and maize.

Potato starch
Potato starch is a light starch that will rise with egg as the leavening agent. Allows lighter baked goods. Use is limited by the short shelf life of products made using this starch. This includes Sweet Potato Starch.

Potato flour
Potato flour is a pleasant thickener for gravies and can also be used in baked goods. Some bread recipes also use mashed potato flakes!

Rice flour
Rice flour is close to wheat flour in behaviour, taste, absorption, and thickening. However, it lacks any binding ability whatsoever, and works best when combined with other flours and starches in baked goods; delicate baked goods may fail if attempted with rice flour alone.

Sweet rice and white rice flour is finer than brown rice flour, although mills are now producing fine brown rice flours for the gluten-free market. Choose the finest grind possible for gluten-free baking; coarser grinds are slightly gritty.

Brown rice flour is a whole grain flour containing higher protein than the white rice flours, and imparts a pleasant heft to baked goods. Sweet white rice flour from a Chinese or Asian grocery is as fine and powdery as cornstarch, and behaves similarly in baked goods. Sweet rice flour can be used as a thickener in gravies. Brown rice flour also makes a good roux for cheese sauces, gumbos, or brown sauces.

Teff flour
Teff flour Teff is an important food grain in Ethiopia and Eritrea, where it is used to make injera, and less so in India and Australia. It is now raised in the U.S., in Idaho in particular, with experimental plots in Kansas. In addition to people from traditional teff-consuming countries, customers include those on gluten-restricted diets.[3]

Xanthan Gum
A strong binding agent that is used to replace the "stretchy" quality inherent in gluten, xanthan gum is often added to gluten-free flour blends to promote an improved texture. Use sparingly in bread, cake and cookie recipes. Xanthan gum is the fermentation product of the bacteria Xanthomonas campestris.

Celiacs who cannot tolerate Xanthan gum, due to corn allergy or trehalose intolerance, must find other alternatives.

Other binders and gums
Xanthan gum is the most popular binding agent, but others can be used too. These include soy lecithin, guar gum, carageenan, agar, carob (locust bean) gum, gum Arabic/acacia, fenugreek gum, tara gum, konjac gum, tragacanth gum, slippery elm powder, and even gelatin and pectin. Methyl Cellulose (MC) and Hydroxypropyl Methyl Cellulose(HPMC) are commonly found in processed and package goods. These agents are often used in combination with each other.

Tapioca starch
Tapioca starch is a thickening agent often used in Chinese foods and gum candies. This starch is derived from cassava (aka manioc) roots; it is the same tapioca as in tapioca pearls, or tapioca pudding. Best used in combination with other gluten-free flours.

Chickpea Flour
Flour made from chickpeas, a popular alternative to gluten flours. This flour is commonly used in Indian cooking and can often be found in Indian or Asian grocery stores, sometimes labelled "besan". It has an unpleasant taste when raw but has a good approximation of wheat flour's texture when cooked. Unfortunately, some may find that it promotes flatulence.

Sorghum Flour
Sorghum flour (also known as sweet sorghum or jowar) makes an excellent wheat flour substitute in quick-leavened baked goods such as muffins or banana bread. It is ground from the small, millet-like grains of the sorghum plant (used to make sorghum syrup). Sweet white sorghum flour is a pale pinkish-brown in color and has a pleasant, faintly sweet and grassy taste. It is best combined with a gluten-free starch such as cornstarch or tapioca and creates a fine crumb, good texture.

Skim Milk Powder
Gluten-free bread recipes often contain skim milk powder. It adds protein and also has beneficial effects on the end product. The casein in milk makes it a good emulsifier, and it makes for a finer crumb and better consistency. People who are allergic to dairy can try substituting soy milk powder, but the results will not be as good.

Soya flour
Soya flour is also often added to gluten-free bread recipes to add protein.

Tips:
Base meals around whole foods that are naturally gluten-free, such as meat, chicken, or fish, eggs, potatoes or rice, and plenty of fresh vegetables, salad and fruit.

When cooking gluten free, it is simplest to look for dishes that require the least customization. A pasta dish may only require the substitution of a rice pasta, for instance. Soups may only require a substitution for thickening (rice flour, cornstarch, or potatoes also thicken soup). Gravies and sauces can be made using arrowroot starch or sweet rice flour instead of wheat flour. Recipes calling for bread crumbs may be translated into gluten-free by using leftover gluten-free breads and crackers, and even baked items, processed into crumbs. Cooked rice or potatoes may also be substituted in many recipes calling for bread crumbs.

Sandwiches can be made with corn tortillas (grilled tuna melts, Mexican-style quesadillas, turkey and cheese, refried beans) -- though the ingredients label of commercial tortillas should be checked, as some commercial firms include wheat flour in apparently "corn" tortillas -- and also with salad leaf wraps (Boston and Romaine lettuce wrapped around filling such as egg salad, tuna, turkey, ham and Swiss, etc.), and moistened rice paper wraps.

Cuisines from cultures that rely less on wheat can simplify menu planning. Many Indian, Asian, Mexican, South American, Middle-Eastern and Pacific Fusion recipes use no gluten containing ingredients.

Cakes, cookies and brownies can be made with a mix of alternative flours; including nut meal. Nut meal/flours can lower the carbohydrate content in a recipe, and up the protein that is often lacking in alternative starches and gluten-free flours. Other higher protein gluten-free flours include quinoa, buckwheat, soy, and amaranth.

Cookies depend more on the physical properties of sugar than on the characteristics of gluten. Substitute any gluten-free flour or blend for wheat flour on a cup-for-cup basis, but refrigerate the dough at least two hours before baking.

Cakes also depend heavily on sugar. Add starches and possibly some guar gum until you find an effective balance.

Pies require a gluten-free crust, and possibly a new thickening agent for the filling. Use packaged gluten-free cookies to create a crumb crust.

Flatbreads such as pancakes are relatively easy to produce with the right starches and gums. Loaves are more difficult, as they need some strong, elastic gel-like behavior for the air bubbles. Xanthan gum produces an acceptable loaf, if the gum is tolerated. If Xanthan gum cannot be tolerated, try gelatin, chia seeds/meal, and/or flaxseed meal in combination with gluten-free starches and flours.

Avoid
Avoid these ingredients:

 * Bulgur
 * Bulgur is wheat that's been cracked and steamed. (Note: A good substitute for bulgur, in dishes such as tabouleh, is cooked quinoa.)

 * Couscous
 * Couscous are actually tiny round pasta spheres, and outside of Africa, couscous is almost always made from wheat flour. (Again, a good substitute is cooked quinoa, or cooked millet.)

 * Durum and Semolina
 * These are specific strains of wheat.

 * Modified Food Starch
 * May be made from cornstarch OR wheat starch. Look for products which specify "corn starch" instead.

 * Spelt and Kamut/QK-77
 * These are species of wheat. (Other names include spelta, Polish wheat, einkorn, and small spelt.)

 * Triticale
 * This is a grain cross-bred from wheat and rye.

Caution
Use these ingredients with caution:

 * Buckwheat
 * Buckwheat is completely unrelated to wheat, and contains no gluten. However, buckwheat flour is reportedly often contaminated with wheat. To avoid wheat in your buckwheat, one alternative is to buy only whole-grain buckwheat, and check it before using the same way you would check your raw beans for a stone. Buckwheat grains are small and triangular, and a wheat grain will stand out like a sore thumb. Another way is to use only buckwheat flour that has been tested for gluten. Bob's Red Mill no longer has gluten free buckwheat flour.

 * Oats
 * Oats are biologically unrelated to wheat, and do not contain wheat gluten. People with a simple wheat intolerance may have no trouble with uncontaminated oats, unless they have a separate allergy to oats. However, some people with celiac disease also report sensitivity to oats.  There's an ongoing controversy over whether or not people with celiac disease can or should eat oats.  See celiac.com for a summary of some of the research.  Note that commercial oats may be contaminated with wheat; some people think this risk is higher for oats because their grains resemble wheat grains in size and shape, some people think the risk of oat contamination is the same as for any other gluten-free flour.  It comes down to an individual decision.  Oat flour is not a key ingredient in gluten-free baking, but rolled oats are a nutritious, delicious, versatile, and easily available food.

Check
Check the label on these ingredients:

 * Baking powder
 * Some baking powders, especially in the United Kingdom, use wheat flour or starch as a carrier for the reactive ingredients. Check the label for a baking powder that uses cornstarch.

Soup

 * Amy's Kitchen produces gluten-free soup in cans. Amy's tests every batch of gluten free products to 20ppm to ensure that they are Gluten Free.
 * Campbell's Soups are not gluten-free; wheat is used as a thickener.
 * Pacific and Imagine soups produce many gluten-free broths and soups packaged in cartons.
 * Progresso soups label foods that contain the top allergens such as wheat, milk, eggs, soy, etc.; some are gluten-free. Always read ingredient labels. Pearled barley is barley, and is not gluten-free.
 * Thai Kitchen produces soup in cans and rice noodle/broth packages; many are gluten-free, always check labels.

Mixes
Gluten Free Yellowpages: Collaborative Database of Gluten Free Products and Services: http://www.TheCeliacSite.com

Gluten-free baking mixes are available. Some of the more widely recognised are:

 * Australia
 * Refer to your local Coeliac Society
 * North America
 * Arrowhead Mills
 * Authentic Foods
 * Bob's Red Mill
 * Breads from Anna
 * Cause You're Special
 * Chebe
 * Cravings Place
 * El Peto
 * Ener-G
 * Gifts of Nature
 * Gluten-Free Pantry
 * Glutano
 * Glutino
 * Kingsmill
 * Kinnikinnick
 * King Arthur
 * Laurel's Sweet Treats
 * Miss Robens
 * Namaste
 * Pamela's
 * PaneRiso
 * The Really Great Food Company
 * Sylvan Border Farm

Kookboek/Glutenvrij

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Cookbook:Gluten-Free


text:
Category:Pages needing attention

These pages are believed to need more tender loving care than normal. If you come across modules that you think need a lot of work, use or  to list them here so that others can find them and give them the needed attention. Newly created pages frequently require loving attention as well.

__HIDDENCAT__

title: Category:Pages needing attention


text:
Scouting/BSA/Programming Merit Badge

Requirement 1
'''Safety. Do the following:'''

 * A. Show your counselor your current, up-to-date Cyber Chip.

 * B. Discuss first aid and prevention for the types of injuries or illnesses that could occur during programming activities, including repetitive stress injuries and eyestrain.

Requirement 2
'''History. Do the following:'''

 * A. Give a brief history of programming, including at least three milestones related to the advancement or development of programming.

 * B. Describe the evolution of programming methods and how they have improved over time.

Requirement 3
'''General knowledge. Do the following:'''

 * A. Create a list of 10 popular programming languages in use today and describe which industry or industries they are primarily used in and why.

 * B. Describe three different programmed devices you rely on every day.

Requirement 4
'''Intellectual property. Do the following:'''

 * A. Explain how software patents and copyrights protect a programmer.

 * B. Describe the difference between licensing and owning software.

 * C. Describe the differences between freeware, open source, and commercial software, and why it is important to respect the terms of use of each.

Requirement 5
'''Projects. Do the following:'''

 * A. With your counselor’s approval, choose a sample program. Then, as a minimum, modify the code or add a function or subprogram to it. Debug and demonstrate the modified program to your counselor.

 * B. With your counselor’s approval, choose a second programming language and development environment, different from those used for requirement 5a and in a different industry from 5a. Then write, debug, and demonstrate a functioning program to your counselor, using that language and environment.

 * C. With your counselor’s approval, choose a third programming language and development environment, different from those used for requirements 5a and 5b and in a different industry from 5a or 5b. Then write, debug, and demonstrate a functioning program to your counselor, using that language and environment.

 * D. Explain how the programs you wrote for requirements 5a, 5b, and 5c process inputs, how they make decisions based on those inputs, and how they provide outputs based on the decision making.

Requirement 6
Careers. Find out about three career opportunities in programming. Pick one and find out the education, training, and experience required. Discuss this with your counselor and explain why this career might be of interest to you.

title: Scouting/BSA/Programming Merit Badge


text:
User talk:Metric1000

Welcome

How much would I weigh on ...
Why did you change all of these sections? To say that one would weigh the same on Pluto as on the Earth is wrong (as you clearly know) and misleading. Please revert. (en user zeimusu wasn't logged in to write this)

 * Nonsense! It is not wrong, not as the English word "weight" is quite properly and legitimately used in the medical sciences and in sports, the primary reasons we weigh ourselves.  Didn't you even read it?  What specifically do you think is in error in my explanations?

 * You know damn well that people around the world (even most hospitals in the United States) weigh themnselves in kilograms. You know that kilograms are units of mass.  You know that those kilograms do not change when you go to another planet.  Metric1000 15:25, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I think that the point of the question about weight is to show that other planets have different gravitional forces from Earth, so we should use units that would vary in different gravitional fields like Newtons. --StarryTG 08:07, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Unless you teach the teachers as well as the students, you are going to have lots of damn fool teachers telling them that those newtons are the units they should normally be using to measure their weight. That is not true.  We do not use newtons, and we should not use them, for the normal purposes for which we measure our weight, for health and fitness purposes.  The pounds (mass) and kilograms which we do use for this are the proper units for this purpose.  Metric1000 09:20, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Weight is not the same as mass. - Omegatron 18:20, 29 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * It is more often than it is not. But yes, there are also many times when they are not the same.  Maybe you just didn't read your own references very well?  Of course, for the second, you might also need to follow that link given on the first line of the article you linked to, to mass in this disambiguation entry.
 * Most relevant to the discussion above, they may even be different from each other "in the doctor's office", but the "weight" there is the same thing as "mass" in a physics laboratory, and "mass" there has a couple of other meanings as well as seen in my link above, different from that quantity called "mass" in a physics lab and called "weight" in a doctor's office. Both are ambiguous words, each with several different meanings. Metric1000 18:12, 30 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * I take issue with several of your statements from above: 1)"...weigh themnselves in kilograms. " However, this misses the fact that kilograms are measured with a balance, while pounds are measured on a scale. Scales are most often spring-loaded, and therefore act as a measurement of force. Standing on a scale on the moon will give you a different weight. standing on a balance on the moon would give you the same mass. 2) "Both are ambiguous words" They are only ambiguous if you redefine them every time you forget to use the proper word for the quantity you are trying to describe. 3) Also, whether people measure the quantity of fat that they have (mass), or the downward force that pulls at their fat (weight) does not matter, but the fact that people frequently use both does not make the quantites eqivalent. --Whiteknight T C E 19:57, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

 * What????!!
 * First of all, the terms "scale" and "balance" are not two mutually exclusive sets of objects. The term scale is generally a broader term; it includes balances.  With an adjective, you might narrow down the group of "scales" under discussion.
 * Second, the people who weigh themselves in kilograms and the people who weigh themselves in pounds (who can, of course, in some cases be the same people) do not do anything one bit differently when they weigh themselves. Furthermore, the weighing can often be the same scale; it might be two different dials on a bathroom spring scale or on one of those balances with a dial readout (HONEST WEIGHT, NO SPRINGS) you still sometimes see in public places, though they used to be more common.  It can also be done on the platform type beam balance in my local doctor's office; the main beam can be flipped over, giving you a different set of detents for the weights to fit into.  On many modern electronic scales with built-in microprocessors, the display can often be changed by pushing a button.
 * Hospital scales are calibrated on site; with people often transferred between hospitals, or to different floors on the same hospital, they want comparable medical records. There is absolutely nothing different in the way that they are calibrated for a readout in pounds from the way they are calibrated for a readout in kilograms, or for a readout in either or both units, as is often the case.

 * If you wonder how accurate your bathroom scale is, and many people often do, it is quite common to compare its reading to a generally more accurate one from the doctor's office or the gym, where the scale is more likely to be calibrated for accurate readings (readings of mass, never for accurate readings of force). Metric1000 20:32, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

The original definition of weight, still in common use today, is synonymous with mass. Before the spring scale was invented (era of Isaac Newton), things were always weighed on balances. This weighing is a measure of mass.

In physics-speak, weight is defined as the force caused by an acceleration acting on a mass. When we are talking about weighing ourselves on a spring scale in our bathroom, the acceleration is the one due to gravity (Less the "centrifugal" force and the buoyancy of the atmosphere, of course). The bathroom scale is calibrated to show us mass in pounds or kg, if we use it on the Earth's surface (not underwater, though).

In everyday-speak, weight is the amount of flour in a sack. Before Newton, there was no real way to talk about the force caused by the acceleration due to gravity acting on a mass. There were also no spring scales -- they were invented in the same era. And, before Newton, nobody was testing weight, mass, balances, and spring scales by going to the moon.

Gene Nygaard's Weight page has a nice discussion. Wikipedia's Weight is coming around to a balanced presentation of the older, common usage and the more recent definition dreamed up by physicists.

The confusion/disussion/argument comes, I think, because the word "weight" means two different things in two different contexts. If we took a balance scale around the universe, we would weigh the same any place a balance scale can work (original definition). But, if we use a spring scale, we would see that our weight (physicist's definition; force) varies on different planets.

Too bad the early physicists didn't come up with a new word to use instead of weight! Is this whole debate Newton's fault?

"Weight is different from mass" is true in the context of astronomy or astrophysics, but not in "everyday" life. Of course, the everyday life of a physicist may be a lot different from the everyday life of a grocer.

The challenge, in Wikijunior Solar System, is to present to kids, using words they can understand, the idea that they would feel heavier or lighter on other planets, even though their mass is unchanged. Just saying "if you weighed yourself on a bathroom scale" may be enough. We don't have to explain, in every little section, that if they weighed themselves on their doctor's-office balance, they would weigh the same. --SV Resolution 14:28, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Scales problem, 81 kg answer
Exactly how is 81Kg correct for Scales_and_Weights_Solution_2? The total mass of all the masses is 80Kg. Please clarify how you could distinguish between 81 Kg and/or any other higher value. Borbrav July 4, 2005 23:27 (UTC)

 * In assessing your change, I was just going by the numbers I had seen as the bottom line in the linked page, when I had visited it earlier in the day. I did not follow it to see that you had just changed that page as well; and I did not double-check the calculations on that page when I had visited it earlier.  I just assumed incorrectly that the reason you had changed it is that you had imagined some symmetry between the links to 40 kg and to 80 kg answers.

 * So you appear to be right, and I apologize for the reversion. Go ahead, fix that one again.  It wasn't my answer in the first place, and the only reason I had the page containing the link on my watchlist was because I had edited it earlier in the day.  But just don't use "Kg" or I'll have to come back and fix that, too; the only acceptable symbol for kilograms is "kg".  Metric1000 5 July 2005 05:35 (UTC)

Where to put the Proofreading Plan
There are many ways to create a page for discussing the pros and cons of the proofreading plan I proposed.

Please be bold. Create a subpage or move the page to the main name space.

Start the discussion. Improve the proofreading process.

Thanks

--SV Resolution 13:54, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I raised the problem and deferred to you or others involved in setting this up, because somebody knows better than I do how everything is arranged.
 * I had looked for it (at least on other proofreading pages), but didn't see the link, at the top of the page I edited for a page, which was set aside for discussion.
 * I think all the actual plan subpages should be in separate "Module" rather than "Talk" pages, with an overview proofreading page including general discussion of the plan, and specifics about the detailed subpages could then be discussed on the corresponding talk page.
 * I don't have a good picture of the map of these pages; you are in a better position to do the rearranging, or explain to me exactly what the arrangement is now, and how the pages re linked together. Metric1000 15:03, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

 * BTW, I have added some comments at Talk:Wikijunior Solar System/Proofreading/discussion.

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you before. I have been busy with other things, of course. We are all volunteers here. What I want to say to you is -- be bold. If you think you can make big improvements by moving pages around, I think you should go for it. Study the situation first. Create a sandbox book which exists solely to be reorganized in a variety of ways, and apply what you learn to the work in progress. Finish up by making sure that the newly-reorganized book and all of its supporting pages is still properly interconnected.

Be bold! If you have a good idea of how to cut, organize, and rearrange information to create the 48-page printed wikibook, please make a start of it! Start a brand new book, the "Wikijunior Solar System Booklet". Once we finish proofreading a module of Wikijunior Solar System, you can move it to the Booklet and start removing pieces of it.

I had no standing at wikibooks when I started editing. I demonstrated my good intentions by doing some work on the book as it was. Then I proposed the proofreading plan because I thought some kind of plan would help. When nobody altered or opposed the plan, I plastered it all over the place. Now people treat it like it is obviously the way to work. They treat me like some kind of expert on editing books. I am not.

You could have the same kind of influence on the way things are done. Make a plan. Propose the plan to others. Ask them to improve it. Start using it in a small way. Refine it. Introduce it in a big way. If you succeed in leading people toward a better book, people should be happy with the change. --SV Resolution 14:04, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Wikijunior Solar System/About weight and gravity
Hello. Re using "bulky" in the above, I realise it's not as accurate a word as "mass", but I'm trying to avoid using "mass" (and units, etc) so this version of the module might remain as uncontroversial as possible. I'm intrigued that you altered only the final instance.

With say a couple of illustrations and a table, do you think this version of the module is a starter?

Regards, David Kernow 00:15, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Metric1000


text:
User:Metric1000

Hi! I'm Metric1000.

title: User:Metric1000