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Knowledge Engineering for Historians/Primer Composite Elements

Composing the Basic Elements
So far we have been happily conflating a notion that we now need to tease apart. When we write, we are of course not writing an entity; the entity Constantine the Great is no longer among us and cannot be brought back by writing. Rather, we have been manipulating a term, namely the term with the unique character string sequence "ConstantineTheGreat", which is supposed to refer to Constantine the Great.

This is not hair-splitting, because once one has terms, it becomes obvious that multiple terms can actually refer to the same entity. (This also gives us a chance to show an equivalence relation in action!)

;; some examples (the first is a classic) equals(MorningStar,EveningStar) equals(FirstWifeOfHenryVIII,CathrineOfArragon)

Functions — Dependent Terms
Sometimes an entity can be defined in terms of another entity. Indeed, if we look at the second example from the term introduction, it becomes pretty much clear from the term's name that this term is defined in terms of another:

equals(FirstWifeOfHenryVIII,CathrineOfArragon)

In knowledge engineering, this case is expressed via a function. A function is a composite term that denotes an entity in terms of one or more other terms (including self-denoting ones such as character strings and numbers). For example, we could rewrite the above example as follows:

equals(NthWifeOfFn(HenryVIII,1),CathrineOfArragon)

Notice the notational convention of appending  and capitalizing the expression. The advantages of this approach are several:

;; typing dimensionless scalars MeterFn(272) ;; or tying them to a convention YearFn(272,CE) ;; we can now do a more proper rendition of old Constantine yearOfBirth(ConstantineTheGreat,YearFn(272,CE))
 * We now have captured additional information (namely the ordinal position) represented in the function rather snuck away in the name of a simple term. This is good because the programs we employ for knowledge representation are challenged when it comes to getting things out of names, but they do pretty well with arguments!
 * We can now type self-denotating terms (which will allow us to undo a little cheat we undertook earlier):
 * Consider the alternative to having functional terms; if you were not happy with 272 by itself denoting both a distance and a year, then you would have to create simple terms for each one of them

;; a pointless exercise ..., TheDistanceOf271Meters, TheDistanceOf272Meters, TheDistanceOf273Meters, ... ..., TheYear271CE, TheYear272CE, TheYear273CE ...

Not all representation languages support this feature, though, and here is why: The power of flexibility comes with the price of now having a humongous number of terms in the language. This can introduce problems for the underlying reasoning system. Consequently, some representation languages prefer to keep this problem at bay by not supporting this feature. There, you have to work around the issue with relations and more complex statements.

;; a more complex way if you dont have functions yearOfBirth(ConstantineTheGreat,?X) && typeOfScalar(?X,Year) && valueOfScalar(?X,272)

Complex Statements
So far we had primarily looked at simple statements, but as the last example showed, by introducing some additional material, namely logical connectives and variables, we can say more complex things. The logical connectives that knowledge representation systems usually support are:

 * the  operation, denoted here as
 * the (inclusive-) operation, denoted here as
 * the unary negation operator, denoted here as

We also need to briefly talk about quantifiers, which specify constraints on variables. There are basically two flavors of quantifier: the existential quantifier, which says that there is at least one of this kind (there exists one, therefore existential); and the universal quantifier, which says that the following is true for all entities that satisfy the properties. Let's briefly reconsider our non-functional birth year of Constantine example: ;; we had basically treated existential quantification as assumed thereExists(?X,  yearOfBirth(ConstantineTheGreat,?X)    && typeOfScalar(?X,Year)   && valueOfScalar(?X,272)) ;; all birth years are years forAll(?X, forAll(?Y, yearOfBirth(?Y,?X) && typeOfScalar(?X,Year)))

Rules — Patterns of Relationship
Now that we know about complex statements, we can turn our attention to a whole variety of complex statements called rules. Rules are like being able to say many things at the same time; they state a pattern for making statements of specific type. This is not only a notational convenience, but allows one to make statements about entities that one has not even encountered yet. For example, the statement that all people have a mother is true for people that are not even born yet.

Notationally, we will use the  operator, which takes a precondition and a postcondition (or antecedent and consequent), and states that if the precondition is true, then the post-condition is true also.

;; all people have a mother implies(forAll(?X,person(?X)),        thereExists(?Y,motherOf(?Y,?X))

Since the antecedent is implicitly universal, many languages permit to leave the  off:

;; with functional speak we get the veryt terse implies(person(?X),motherOf(MotherFn(?X),?X))


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Knowledge Engineering for Historians/Primer Basic Elements

The Basic Elements
Knowledge Engineering's basic tools are entities and relations.

Entities
An entity is something like a concept — e.g. the feudal system — or an individual — St. Peter's Cathedral, Charlemagne, etc. Some entities are timeless and self-denoting, like numbers or names; others have complex histories, like the two entities we just mentioned.

Before we look at some examples, a brief comment on notation: For the purposes of the examples presented here, we will notate entities with capital letters and relations with initial lowercase letters. And we will use double-semicolons — ;; — to denote comments in our representation; so anything that follows a double-semicolon mark to the end of that line is a comment and can contain arbitrary characters.

That said, let's look at some examples:

;; a couple of entities from the 4th century AD Trier-RomanCity ConstantineTheGreat HelenaOfConstantinople

Here we have identified three entities: the Roman city of Trier, Germany; the 4th century AD Roman Emperor Constantine the Great; and his mother, the later Augusta Helena of Constantinople.

Definition and Arity
A relation is an entity in its own right (or at least should be) and is used to connect (usually) two entities together. More precisely, the number of entities that a relation can connect together is called the arity of the relation.

;; something about our entities yearOfBirth(ConstantineTheGreat,272) motherOf(ConstantineTheGreat,HelenaOfConstantinople) residence(ConstantineTheGreat,Trier-RomanCity)

Assigning Type Information
While one might suspect that relations that connect two entities (so-called binary relations) be the most useful, there are indeed interesting uses for relations with an arity of one (unary relations), namely stating that an entity belongs to a specific class or type:

;; some type information about our entities male(ConstantineTheGreat) female(HelenaOfConstantinople) city(Trier)

Notice that not all ontologies handle type information this way; indeed, we could treat "maleness" as an entity in its own right and then use a binary relation to attribute this to emperor Constantine.

;; for those who dont like unary relations is-a(ConstantineTheGreat,Male) is-a(HelenaOfConstantinople,Female) is-a(Trier-RomanCity,City)

The advantage of doing things this way is that concepts like city really feel like they ought to be entities in their own right. However, this is not true for all types. Indeed, some types look odd when treated as an entity:

;; which looks better? many think the first one does red(MyFerrari) is-a(MyFerrari,RedObject)

Some representation languages choose to not treat relations as entities in their own right (e.g. frame-based systems), and this imputes a preference for assigning type information with binary predicates. However, as we stated above, there is really no excuse for not treating relations as entities in their own right!

Arity: How Much is Too Much?
For some representation languages, the maximum arity of its relations may be an implementation dependent choice. This is defensible insofar as, theoretically speaking, it is always possible to construct the equivalent of an -ary relationship using only binary relations provided on elevates the relationship itself to the level of an entity.

;; Henry VIII and his wives, using a 7-ary relation hadAsWives(HenryVIIIofEngland,CatherineOfAragon,AnneBoleyn,JaneSeymour,AnneOfCleves,CatherineHoward,CatherineParr) ;; gets away with just binary relations memberOf(TheWivesOfHenryVIII,CatherineOfAragon) memberOf(TheWivesOfHenryVIII,AnneBoleyn) memberOf(TheWivesOfHenryVIII,JaneSeymour) memberOf(TheWivesOfHenryVIII,AnneOfCleves) memberOf(TheWivesOfHenryVIII,CatherineHoward) memberOf(TheWivesOfHenryVIII,CatherineParr)

This approach is sometimes called "Davidsonian Representation" after philosopher Donald Davidson, an issue we will discuss in more detail later. Of course, one might have tried the following, but that does not capture the commonality that these ladies (somewhat inadvertantly) shared in quite the same way:

;; uses a another binary relations spouses(HenryVIII,CatherineOfAragon) spouses(HenryVIII,AnneBoleyn) spouses(HenryVIII,JaneSeymour) spouses(HenryVIII,AnneOfCleves) spouses(HenryVIII,CatherineHoward) spouses(HenryVIII,CatherineParr)

For it would not allow us to attribute any information to the relation as such:

;; this is only possible by making the relationship itself an entity nameOfTopic(TheWivesOfHenryVIII,"The Six Wives of Henry VIII") themeOfTVShow(TheWivesOfHenryVIII,TheSixWivesOfHenryVIII-PBSSpecial)

Types of Relations
Now that we have seen a couple of relations, it is clear that they come in rather different flavors. Let's put some really different kinds and discuss what makes their differences:

;; some place information -- true though maybe not a deep insight locationOf(Trier-RomanCity,Germany) locationOf(Trier-RomanCity,Trier-RomanCity)

Relations like  are called reflexive; they have the property that they also (usually trivially) relate the first argument to itself. Not surprisingly, reflexive relations are always binary (what's the point in relating a thing to itself more than once?).

;; a bit of dynastic knowledge childOf(HenryVIII,HenryVII) childOf(MaryI,HenryVIII)

These dynastic relations are the opposite of reflexive, they are irreflexive. ;; more generally speaking descendant(HenryVIII,HenryVII) descendant(MaryI,HenryVIII)

With this example, the interesting property of the relation is that — without explicitly saying it — we know that Queen Mary I is also a descendant of king Henry VII (he is after all her grandfather). Such relations are called transitive, which means that the property that they are conveying can be transferred from one entity to another via an intermediary that they share relationship with. for example is not transitive, or more technically intransitive.

;; more dynastic details spouses(HenryVIII,CatherineParr) The relation  is interestingly different from the other relations in that the argument order conveys no information. Such relations are called symmetric and that just means that one can write the arguments in either order without changing what one is saying. This is definitely not true for  or   — here the argument order is critical.

Interestingly, there is a small group of relations that combine these three features — reflexivity, symmetry and transitivity — and these are called equivalence relations — possibly because   is a classic example for one of these relations.

The features that type relations are not restricted to considering the relation alone; one can also identify features that relate two relations to each other.

;; another dynastic variation husbandOf(HenryVIII,CatherineParr) wifeOf(CatherineParr,HenryVIII)

This asymmetric variation on the marriage information is interesting because these two relations convey opposite views of the same information. We call such relations inverses of each other, because one needs to invert the argument position of the entities to say the same thing.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


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Marinette Aluminum Boat Maintenance/Why a Marinette

Why a Marinette - The Forum's boat owners speak out. http://www.marinetteboat.com/forum  The bad, the good and the ugly.

I am assuming either you own a Marinette or are looking to buy one.

From Fred

I'm going to go out on a limb (I use to really catch hell on the Catalina 30 forum every time I criticized anything about the boat) and say if I had the money I'd trade my Marinette in for a fiberglass fast trawler in a heartbeat. It's not that I don't like the Marinette, but it has some characteristics that I'm not wild about:

1) Trilux bottom paint (and all others safe for use on aluminum) sucks. I would give anything to be able to use VC17 on the bottom of the Marinette. A quick rinse and wipe with a scotchbrite pad and freshwater, let it dry and you're ready to paint (no sanding ever), dry time between coats less than 5 min instead of 12hrs, can paint in the fall and launch in the spring without losing effectiveness, and can paint 10 minutes before launch to touch up those areas under the boat stand pads, plus you get a little bit more boat speed compared to ablative paints - what's not to like?

2) Compared to my sailboats the Marinette is not nearly as seaworthy. I'd never even consider taking the Marinette out in conditions even half as severe as what I didn't think twice about going out in my sailboat. Heavier (i.e. fiberglass) powerboats with a deep vee hull that I've been in, while still not as good in heavy weather as my sailboats have been, are noticeably better than my Marinette. It's without a doubt the worst handling boat I've been on or operated when it comes to rough water operation. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that its not seaworthy at all - just that I'm not impressed with its handling characteristics compared to other boats I've had experience with, and I pick my weather windows with far more care when cruising.

3) Fuel economy on planing boats is awful compared to sailboats and trawlers. While Marinette's are better than fiberglass boats of the same size that's still not saying much.

4) Fiberglass is easier to work with than aluminum (at least for me). Getting paint applied properly on aluminum is even more of an ordeal than on other materials and preparation is critical.

That said, there are a lot of good things about these aluminum boats which is why I bought mine:

1) They tend be priced a bit lower compared to fiberglass boats that I was considering at the time.

2) No worries about core rot, blisters, etc. After having to recore the cockpit floor in one of my sailboats because some moron installed some hardware years earlier without caulking the mounting bolts, this is a feature that I really, really appreciate.

3) A bit cheaper on gas because of the lighter weight and less vee in the hull compared to fiberglass planing hulls.

4) Easy to work on as most things are accessible directly or by removing screwed on panels, which is a real blessing for those that do most maintenance themselves. I really don't get why most boat builders feel the need to install things in such a way that they are nearly impossible to service later.

5) My Marinette is a far more spacious and comfortable boat for dockside living and cruising than any of my sailboats have been, although I don't have nearly as much storage space compared to my last 30' sailboat, but the storage space I do have is more easily accessed, e.g. you don't have to dig into lockers stuffed behind settee seat backs.

6) My cruising speed of 18-20mph is wonderful when cruising. I no longer need a minimum 4 hour weather window to get from one port to another on Lk MI. On our cruise to Frankfort, MI this summer we encountered 6-8 ft very steep waves one morning. By 4 in the afternoon the waves had decreased to about 2 foot and by 5:30 we were two ports further down the lake. In a sailboat or trawler we would have lost the entire day. Plus the extra cruising speed extends my range considerably. Unfortunately with today's fuel prices I think twice (or more) before actually traveling the extra distance.

7) The Marinette is built like a tank - its almost inconceivable that you could damage the hull beyond repair. We hit rocks in Lake Huron at the end of our first day with my Marinette in the thickest fog I've ever seen (first time I've ever seen fog combined with a thunderstorm). Both props and shafts were bent but had no damage to the hull.

Fred

Other Comments:

Fred: I agree with virtually every one of your points.

From Fast Jeff

Here's a few comments of my own:

Copper-based AF paints are in the bull's eye of environmentalists, so Trilux type paints may be the only ones available in the future. (That's good for us, for the price will come down.)

On rough sea keeping: My 1985 (28 foot) Bayliner (deep vee) handled rough water better, but removal of the flybridge did help. The shallow draft and lightness of a 32 footer makes for a tippy boat in the big ones. The 37 footers (like Louis') and larger handle much better.

On maintenance access: I curse a blue streak anytime I have to work on the outside sides of the engine--God help me when the manifolds need replacing! But at least you can get ot things. On the old Bayliner (again) a Sawzall would be required to change out the fuel tank--it's stuck under the aft cabin! (What were they thinking?)

On spaciousness: A winner hands down when it comes to live-aboard space (and windows! I wouldn't own one of those plastic boat "caves".)

Gas mileage--a real concern to all of us--is definitely better on a big M.  Been keeping an eye on what MPG newer boats get, and ours win hands down for an inboard. Plastic boats with I/Os, and with dual props, are a bit better in many cases, though.

From phflaw All are welcome. (Hell, even lawyers)

I, for one would not trade my boat for anything other than a bigger Marinette. We use our 32' sedan bridge as a sort of floating summer cottage. Life seems to slow down when I've got my family with me on the boat. I've owned wooden, fiberglass and now aluminum boats and I'm sold on aluminum. My next boat will be a 37' or 39' aft cabin Marinette.

From Sick Leave

I have a twin 28 footer only regret is wishing I had the 32 footer. I have so much time and energy in this one not sure I want to buy a 32 and start over. Almost bought 32 last fall from some one near here but could not get a commitment for bigger well at marina where I am. Did not want to change Marinas and still do not, the costs are cheaper in current marina.

From Yoobertube

Most of the comments you will get are about the 28' and 32'. These are great lightweight planning hull boats. 37' and 41' are very much larger and better in rougher conditions. All are very tough.

From GB49

To Hunter,

Good move on thinking about Marinette. They are the most affordable, livable and seaworthy boat on the market, IMO. My 3rd summer living aboard my 32 sedan is coming to an end and every year it’s a painful departure. I wish I could keep her in the water year round...but in a warmer climate. If you do get a Marinette I can tell from reading your history you will become attached to her in no time. I don’t know what the heck I'd be doing now if there was no boat in my life. I would never trade my 32' for an equal size plastic boat. Partly because most 32' plastic boats don’t come close to offering the space a Marinette does and partly because of the fuel economy. Yes, you may trade a little comfort in foul weather for less weight and shallow draft but physics is physics and I have yet to hear of any Marinettes rolling over because they are "top heavy". They can take a lickin and keep on tickin.

Welcome to the forum, Karl

More from GB

Fred,

All valid points, but.. 1) Bottom paint on any boat sucks. Until the day someone designs a boat rotisserie device like they use when rebuilding cars, applying bottom paint will always be a pain in the neck, butt, elbows, and knees.

2) Sailboats to Power Boats are apples to oranges. Completely different hull characteristics and capabilities.

3) Fuel econ, again apples to oranges.

4) Fiberglass (FRP) is easier to work w/ but Aluminum you at least you have something work with if you happen to pile up on reef or ram into a lighted channel buoy at cruising speed and make it back home w/ no assistance. (Yes, someone I know did this w/ a 32’ sedan) Al has much better tensile qualities.

Yes, Marinette has its share of foibles, but the fact that you can find 70s and 80s Marinettes in the classifieds of many boat magazines, most (some, ed) of which I admit are in crap condition, but none the less are still in operational existence says it all. I don’t see many fiberglass boats of similar type from those years advertised anywhere.

-Karl

From John Althouse

Info on Aluminum alloys used on Marinette's. The hull, deck and superstructure plating is 5086 aluminum (5086 was developed for salt water use, it can be used for both fresh and salt water applications)

The extrusions on the boats are 6061 aluminum. Extrusions are anything other than flat plate, such as angles, flat bars, tubes, the air foil shapes used for the legs on the shaft struts, the keel and sheer extrusions, etc.

5086 is difficult alloy to extrude, which is why 6061 is used.

These two alloys were used together on all of the boats from the beginning in the early 50's.

The filler metal to join the two alloys is 5356 alloy wire.

All 5000 series alloys are not created equal, unlike 5086, 5052 alloy should only be used in fresh water, in salt water it will rapidly deteriorate. Many small aluminum boats and aluminum houseboats are made with 5052 and generally do not last long when left in salt water environments.

A quick note on the history of the original company. In 1990 the airport in Louisville (where the boats were built from 1953 to 1990) was expanding and terminated the lease on the buildings that Aluminum Cruisers was using. The company had to move. Instead of moving, the company was sold to a frp (fiberglass) houseboat manufacturer in TN. While the new owners built a few Marinette (4-6), they never got a production line going again. Shortly after the purchase they became extremely busy with there houseboats as a result of the luxury tax killing the cruiser market and boosting the houseboat market.

In 1996 the assets and manufacturing rights were sold at auction and a few months later I purchased everything.

John Althouse President Marinette Yachts

From Joe JOE3656 (Marinette Forum Author)

I love the Marinette, but unlike some I upsized early (selling my 28 ft for a 37ft). A Marinette tends to be someone's second or third boat. The 37ft is far more stable. I numbered the biggies on the negatives.

See our aluminum page on this site.

Aluminum and Metals

Negatives - #1 - The moronic use of the damn Goo that was used in the bilge. Bilges should be "painted" grey or white with epoxy or zinc chromate paint to see oil leaks and to protect the hull. You must keep the bilge clean of dropped metal parts. (Water is fine). #2 A seahorse in tutu logo. #3 You have to keep the wiring and corrosion system in shape. Keep power from going into the hull - bilge, keep the galvanic isolator in shape, and pay attention to the CAPAC meter. Dropped a penny or bolt into the bilge - go find it. #4 This boat's life span works against it in resale. It exceeds the NADA age curve, so there are a lot of them on ebay to compete with when you sell. Lot's of very good 60's 70's and 80's boats to buy lowers the resale value. (Good to buy, bad to sell).

Trivial Negatives: Shallow draft - It's a river and lake boat, that needs modification for deep water (windows and cockpit mostly). Generally undervalued - The long life of Marinettes make them lower in resale value due to the comparison with similarly aged FRP boats. The quality is not well known. Some owners won't understand about what to put against aluminum (Stainless screws into the hull are a no-no), so you may have to fix some one else's fix. Antifouling paint is more expensive. You have to put anodes on the hull. Sedans and expresses - the plywood - Nautolex cockpit deck was OK for it's time, but damn, it could be better. Noise - Aluminum is noisier with wave slap and engines. You may have to insulate some of it. Smaller Marinettes are light enough to bob. The original stainless railing attachment is just a corrosion pain. You have to pull these off and rebed them on most Marinettes with 3M 4200 and proper gaskets. Painting requires the right self-etching primer.

Some parts of the appointment of a Marinette (the exterior plywood-Nautolex deck, carpet and some fiberboard interior panels) are of less quality than I'd like. These are generally upgraded by smart owners. When possible - use teak or solid panels (King Starboard), or aluminum plate panels to replace parts and see our pages on deck replacement alternatives (plasteak, aluminum plating, et al). Think white or plate aluminum outside as nice looking brown or grey colors are burn your foot "hot" underfoot. The deck railing fittings should have been welded aluminum.

Myths and half truths about Aluminum : There are myths about seawater corrosion which is not a problem with this boat, if basic common sense rules are used. You'll replace steel parts, the stainless steel rudders and the engines, but not likely the hull. (BTW Marinette Marine did not make the Marinettes, Aluminum Cruisers did.) You will have heard that aluminum fuel tanks made of Al (especially 60XX or 5052 series) do fail if improperly installed, but it's not the same issue. In FRP boats with Al tanks. the foamed in aluminum tanks form a battery effect as the foam breaks down over time, acidifies and entraps moisture. This is not the case of this boat. Al tanks should be 5083 or 5086, not 5052.

Myth: What you heard about on the Foaming of AL tanks.

Foaming in any metal substance is a bad idea. All plastics permit some water to permeate them and foam allows water to pass through. The tank must be separated and have vented aeration. Even worse is stainless in Foam which suffers from in low oxygen dampness. See http://www.yachtsurvey.com/fueltank.htm. The correct way is to paint the tank with zinc chromate or epoxy and use 3M 4200 or 5200 adhesive on the mount points as bedding compound. If you found that hard?... read at http://www.yachtsurvey.com David Pascoe's site about permanently fixing a blistered FRP hull.

Myth : DC current (electrolysis) and Hulls

In all cases, fiberglass, steel, plastic or aluminum, a bilge with DC power is in trouble. Yes, Aluminum is more susceptible, but bronze through hulls, out drives, rudders and shafts are also susceptible with the same problem. It takes a couple of days to weeks to destroy a through hull (See the 3 days it took for DC to eat a fitting at http://webconsult.web.aplus.net/boating/pages/stray_AC_versus_DC.html), and also check the Quicksilver article at BoatUS  http://www.boatus.com/boattech/MarineCorrosion.htm article. It does not matter what type of boat it is, ensure live power does not get into the bilge. Pull any recreational boat periodically to check anodes, or install an impressed current system. Isolated bronze through hulls are not a problem, (but don't connect them together or to the hull). If the bronze is pinkish tinged, replace the fitting.

Try Googling for Marinette Aluminum Hull failure and then google fiberglass FRP hull failure. A bit anecdotal evidence, but insightful. All Marinettes are generally protected by Zinc Chromate or Epoxy-based hull paint. Most Owners use 3M brand 4200 as a bedding compound.

Forum Poll : What metal failed last on your Marinette boat? Steel - Rust/crack 9 votes (45%) Stainless Steel 6 votes (30%) Aluminum 3 votes (15%) Bronze 1 votes (5%) Brass 1 votes (5%)

By the way: For me, stainless failed at the rudder post. (Oxygen starvation corroded it). I am also going to have to replace steering cables (Steel). Chances are the bronze through hulls need to be checked or replaced.

We asked - 2 of the members with aluminum used a $10-20 fix to patch a spot.

Positives - Cost - I've been able to spend less and get more. Oh my yes, A Marinette is the safest old boat to buy and fix up. (But get a survey.) You can get Chrysler engine parts and rebuilding a Chrysler or Crusader is cheap. Nothing that can't be replaced, rots out. No balsa or plywood strings. Keep the Chrylser engine, they are cheap to repower and rebuild.

Lifespan - these are 30+ year boats. They last. No bad years - though the Buick engines are a negative on early 60's boats.

Owner and forum support - lots of people own these and the forum and Marinette company can support you on advice, parts and projects. It's a big positive not to be in an orphaned boat. Plus a lot of company sill make aluminum boats and their support is available.

Price - Marinettes are deeply underrated on value by NADA, which makes them a bargain to buy. Really a bargain.

Space - Huge interior space compared to most boats, well appointed. The beam of the boat gives lot's of space.

Cool deck - The deck stays cool in summer due to heat loss from the aluminum.

Quality - The boat hull will not get old, blister or fail. General quality of construction is high, mostly solid teak or teak plywood interior and tank-like welded plate aluminum construction. It's a very good choice as a used boat and very fixable. You can fix almost any Marinette.

Good in salt water - many are on the Chesapeake Bay.

Safe - Very log and rock resistant for rivers and lakes with lots of floating logs. You will hit a log sooner or later in many rivers.

Shallow draft - key to navigating some areas of water. Rivers, canals, bays (Cheasapeake and Florida are big areas for the Marinettes), and lakes with logs and shallows are a great spot for the boat. (And this is more a positive than a negative in the silting in of US lakes and rivers.

Customizable - Owners add, lengthen, and remove parts.

Surveyors like them - generally they can pass a survey. A surveyor can yea or nay a Marinette easy. (No weird moisture in the hull. Boating insurance companies like them.

Welded not riveted - Long lasting monocoque hull instead of sectioned rivets.

Seawater is OK- when properly painted and zinced, the boat will not fail in salt water (Coast guard boats are unpainted aluminum).

Speed - It's fast for a cruiser. It's light and fast.

No "monkey arms" required - most things can be reached to be fixed. The "monkey arms" issue is an important safety issue in a boat, as what I can't see or reach can sink me.

No wood in the hull not even glassed in plywood - won't rot.

My family likes it - which means I can own this boat.

Looks - Good classic boat-y look.

Mounting - I can attach things anywhere, not just at mount points.

Poll : What length is your Marinette? 28 22 votes (29%) 32 28 votes (37%) 37 12 votes (16%) 41 4 votes (5%) something else 10 votes (13%)

Poll What year was your Marinette built? pre-1965 4 votes (6%) 1966-1970 6 votes (10%) 1971-1976 17 votes (27%) 1977-1982 10 votes (16%) post-1982( -1994) 26 votes (41%)

Our poll has an average age of a Marinette of more than 20 years, with none less than 10 years old.

Poll: I have fixed the aluminum hull on my boat due to corrosion - Never 15 votes (75%), 1 small patch 0 votes (0%), Couple of pits 5 votes (25%), Had to weld something 0 votes (0%)

Every Marinette owner I know, paints their boat. Top and bottom. Most prefer epoxy as a barrier coat while some use zinc chromate paint for barrier and patches. I last used Interlux 2000E with 5+ years and no problems.

Must Read: Truths about all boats

The most important question in owning a Marinette applies to all boats - Are you and your family ready to own a boat? Is the boat right for you and the waters in which you will boat? A boat is like a car, you have to take care of it, and pay the costs on maintenance. Boats need repair and maintenance. Leave a car in the driveway for 1/2 a year and watch it deteriorate.

Quality is important in boats and cars. There are cars that age faster than others and cars that last a long time. A older used good car is better than a newer used poor quality car (Compare a 1980 Volvo with a 1990 Yugo). This is even more true in boats. Today we see the warranty (5-10 years) on the hull of some large fiberglass (FRP) boats is less than any possible payoff time. Why pay 200K+ for a 32+ ft boat whose hull and interior won't last 20 years? Whether aluminum or FRP, there are good and poor quality boats. If you decide on fiberglass, please read David Pascoe's articles on fiberglass boats and hull defects (go to the forum's links page). Moreover, consider carefully buying any FRP boat that will or did stay long term in the water with a foam or balsa cored bottom (non-trailerable) or foam core. If you decide on a metal boat, see this site, our forum www.marinetteboat.com/forum, Marinette, Inc , the Metal Boat Society and Michael Kasten's web page.

Expect to pay thousands of dollars in maintenance and parts on any boat of any size. It's the way it is. Do not buy any boat you can't afford costs and time for. If you are afraid of the expense, you cannot really own a boat.

Truth is, the most likely reason for a boat to sink is the through hulls, cooling, bellows failure, and the hoses. Maintain them, replace plastic with Marelon (Forespar), and check them often. Plastic through hulls are a hazard. Close the ones you don't need. Replace or repair your bilge pumps every 2 years, as a Rule, most of them are of poor quality. Pull the boat out at least every three years, as four years in the water is too long a time for my comfort. Mine comes out every winter, as my marina has no one to watch it over the winter here. Visit the boat. Boats in the water need power for the bilge (a reliable self bailing boat is a myth).

Decide how much of a project boat you are prepared for and always get a survey. Divide the time you expect to work on a boat by two. Buy a boat for the way you will be boating. Make sure you have a place for any boat and a place that will haul it out for maintenance. A boat's beam may be wider than your marina has a slip for. Hint: Most wives insist on a head.


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User talk:Nymos

Hey Nymos,

We're using "Complex Variables with Applications, 3rd Edition by A. David Wunsch" :-) --Sciyoshi 22:59, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
Hi, Nymos. Thank you for the help with the Hebrew book! --CocoaZen 00:11, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Nymos


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French/Lessons/Travel

The preposition means from:

De becomes d' before a vowel, due to elision:

The definite article is included with countries:

The contraction is used in place of de le:

Likewise, the contraction is used in place of de les:

De also has other translations, which depend on context. For example, it is used to indicate an amount:

Usage
Possessive adjectives are used to express possession of an object:

In English the possessive adjective agrees with the subject (his sister, her brother). But in French, possessive adjectives act like all other adjectives: they must agree with the noun they modify.

Whether son, sa and ses translate to his or her is indicated by context:

Notre, votre, and leur modify singular nouns, regardless of gender; nos, vos, and leurs modify plural nouns:
 * le chalet :
 * la caravane:

Monuments, visited, travelled, eated...

The second category of regular French verbs is verbs.

Formation
To conjugate, drop the to find the stem or root. Add endings to the root based on the subject and tense.

is an irregular verb, and is conjugated differently. nous, vous and ils don't have the letter 'd' which you would otherwise expect in a normal  verb. In ils the n is also doubled up.

Sometimes when you go out, you may get lost, or come across someone who is lost. This should help you ask for and give directions.

title: French/Lessons/Travel


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French/Lessons/Art

The third category of regular verbs is made up of verbs. Relative to verbs,  verbs are not very common. Many common verbs ending in, such as , , and , have irregular conjugations.

Formation
To conjugate, drop the to find the "stem" or "root". Add endings to the root based on the subject and tense, as demonstrated below for the present tense.

, meaning to visit, is used for places (and not for people) :
 * is not a correct sentence in french. It's a common (but understanble) mistake made by foreign people.
 * is not a correct sentence in french. It's a common (but understanble) mistake made by foreign people.

or, meaning to pay a visit (to), is used for people:

has other meanings, such as to produce, to express, to make, and to give back:

Sentences placement
Most adjectives come after the noun they modify in French:

Beau, nouveau, and vieux, as well as some other common French adjectives, precede the noun:

Des is replaced with de when an adjective comes before the noun:

In informal speech, des is often used in place of de.

title: French/Lessons/Art


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Cookbook:Picadillo (Beef with Potatoes and Tomatoes)

| Tex-Mex cuisine

The Mexican dish picadillo is a popular filling for tacos.

Ingredients

 * 1–1½ lbs (450–625 g) ground beef
 * 1 large yellow onion, chopped
 * 4 cloves of garlic, chopped
 * 29 oz beef broth
 * 1 large green bell pepper, stemmed, seeded, and chopped
 * 3 large russet potato, cubed bite-sized
 * 14.5 oz canned diced tomatoes in juice
 * 2 tbsp oil
 * ⅛ tsp salt
 * 1 teaspoon chili powder
 * Black pepper, cumin, oregano and garlic powder to taste (about 2-2½ tablespoons total)

Procedure

 * 1) In a large, heavy pan, heat oil over medium-high heat. Dump onions, garlic, bell pepper and seasonings into heated oil.
 * 2) When the bell pepper starts to discolor, add the ground beef, stirring to break up large pieces. Brown evenly, cooking for about 7 minutes.
 * 3) As meat is browning, add potato, beef broth and diced tomatoes.
 * 4) Simmer until picadillo thickens, stirring occasionally.
 * 5) Serve hot with Spanish (Mexican) rice and tortilla.


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French/Lessons/Going out

The preposition à can indicate a destination, a location, a characteristic, measurement, a point in time, and purpose.

When le follows à, the à and le combine into au. Similarly, à and les combine into aux.

The preposition de can indicate an origin, contents, possession, cause, and manner.

When le follows de, the de and le combine into du. Similarly, de and les combine into des.

The following verbs are all conjugated irregularly, in the same way.

The verbs, meaning to leave for where one came from or to restart is conjugated in the same way as partir.

, meaning to distribute or to forward, is conjugated in the regular second group pattern (see the conjugation table).

The verb, meaning to go or come back out, to take back out, to emerge from, or to stand out, is conjugated in the same way as sortir.

 * 1Un fauteuil is the physical chair that one sits on. One would normally use "une place" whenever "a seat" is used in English.
 * Prenez place ! - Take a seat! (very common expression. No article before place, you should not say Prenez la place)

-enir verbs are irregularly conjugated (they are not treated as regular -ir verbs).

The most common -enir verb is venir, meaning to come.

When venir is used with the preposition de, it means to come from or to be from:
 * Ces pommes viennent de l'Espagne.

When venir de is used with a verb, it states that you have recently accomplished an action.
 * Je viens de me réveiller.

Formation
In the present indicative, venir (and all other -enir verbs) is conjugated as follows:

-é…er verbs are regular -er verbs, but are also stem changing.

La Sortie or Sortie is generally used for fire exit signage in buildings to direct people in the building to the nearest exit. In this case, La Sortie would imply The Way Out(side) to those reading it.

title: French/Lessons/Going out


text: Template:French/Lessons/Level two/Header


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French/Lessons/Dining

Canadian and Belgian French has an off-by-one behavior with meals : breakfast is called déjeuner, lunch is called dîner and dinner is souper.

 * 1) French butchers do not sell pork, pork products, nor horsemeat. For these products, go to a charcuterie.
 * 2) In France, bakeries only sell fresh bread. Places where they sell bread that is not fresh are called dépôt de pain.
 * 3) 'Charcuteries' sell things besides pork products, including pâte, salami, cold meats, salads, quiches and pizzas.
 * 4) An alternative to an 'épicerie' is an alimentation générale (a general foodstore).

Vouloir
The verb vouloir, meaning to want, is irregularly conjugated (it is not a regular -ir verb).

The related phrase means to mean. The idiom means to be angry .

Pouvoir
Pouvoir, meaning to be able to, is conjugated similarly to vouloir.

The noun le pouvoir means power or authority, and the term au pouvoir means in power. The adverb, literally translated as could be, means maybe or perhaps.

Pouvoir is not used with verbs relating to the five senses:
 * I can see you. - Je te vois. (not Je peux te voir., which is I can meet you.)

Pouvoir is not used to mean can in the sense of to know how to. Use savoir instead.
 * I can swim. - Je sais nager. (not Je peux nager.)

In Belgian French, pouvoir is additionally not used to say someone is capable of something, savoir is also used for that.
 * Je ne sais pas dormir. - I am not able to sleep. to a Belgian, I do not know how to sleep. to a Frenchman.
 * Je ne peux pas dormir. - I am not allowed to sleep. to a Belgian, I am not able to sleep. to a Frenchman.

Puis is the first person present indicative form used in inversion and as an archaic variant.

Servir, meaning to serve (to bring a meal to someone), is conjugated similarly to sortir, partir, and dormir.

Formation
The verbs, meaning to clear (a table) or to clear away, and , meaning to serve again, are conjugated in the same way as servir.

Servir means to serve (to bring a meal to someone):
 * On nous a servi à dîner.

It can also mean to serve more generally:
 * Il sert son pays.
 * Il a servi dans l’infanterie.
 * Il aime à se faire servir.

It can also mean to be used for or to be useful for someone:
 * Ce livre lui a bien servi dans son travail.
 * Cela ne sert à rien!
 * Cette machine ne peut plus servir.

In the context of sports, servir means to serve (start a point with service) or to set up (pass to, in order to give a scoring chance).

In the context of transportation, desservir, meaning to serve (of a train or bus, to stop at a particular town), is used instead:
 * Ce train dessert les grandes villes de la région.
 * Cet autobus dessert les boulevards.
 * Ce bureau de poste dessert plusieurs communes.

-cer verbs are regular -er verbs, but are also stem changing. The most common -cer verb is commencer, meaning to begin.

 * 1) -eille is pronounced eh-yuh
 * 2) Do not confuse with le livre.

title: French/Lessons/Dining