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User talk:Jomegat/Archive 1

EE
I doubt that you want to mix your work with your time on wikibooks, but I've created a number of books in the Electrical Engineering bookshelf that you might be able to lend a helping hand with. If not, I understand (you don't want to come home after a long day of engineering, to write about engineering on wikibooks).

On a personal note, i'm a young EE that recently graduated. Where do you work? What do you do? I just started grad school myself, so i'm out of the job market for a few years anyway, but it never hurts to learn about opportunities. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 03:36, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

 * It doesn't really matter where you reply to these comments, i'll see them no matter where you are. Don't feel obligated to help out the EE bookshelf, i just like to inform knowledgable contributors that the bookshelf has expanded greatly in the past few months, and that there are plenty of opportunities to help out. I recently started a Digital Signal Processing book, and there is also an Embedded Systems one if you want to write more about software. Talk to you later. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 04:35, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Category
I'm currently trying to categorise each module in Wikibooks. The idea is to make it possible for anyone to find a module they are looking for in Wikibooks through the category system. Also, as "module" for the module count means any page that isn't very short that has some kind of link in it, this also means that I am added modules without links to the module count too. This sounds trivial, but is important as wikis get measured by the number of "good articles".

Most books easily fall within certain categories. Your book, however, doesn't appear to me to do so (although lobbing it into "candidates for book of the month" might be an idea:) ). I've therefore just added the same category to each page. If you could continue to do the same for new pages, it would be appreciated. Alternatively, if you have a good way of categorising that pages, please implement that.

And by the way, keep up the good work, Jguk 19:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I second that... great book!
 * I'm sort of following behind Jguk and doing more detailed categorisation. I'll probably add a lot of subject-area tags to individual pages, assumming that's OK with you :). -- SB_Johnny  | talk 11:40, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually, I was going to put them in general topic categories, not specific to the book. I mostly work on the how-tos category, and a lot of the pages of the AY book are excellent how-tos (better than most, in fact). Since there can be more than one how-to on any particular subject (more than one way to skin a cat, so to speak), I think it will be nice to be able to follow category paths, even if only for finding "see also" links. -- SB_Johnny | talk 12:52, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Images
The source of your images has been questioned on the Commons. You may want to see the discussion: Commons:Commons:Deletion_requests. w:user:ed g2s 14:51, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

re: Honours Answer book cover uploaded.
I have uploaded two versions of the file and emailed you with the details.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Image:AY_Answers.jpg

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Image:AY_Answers_600.jpg

Gerald

Music honour
- FYI - I have previously completed a music workbook for this honour, so I have got all the illustratrations of scales, cleffs, etc drawn, I am just uploading and editing as I have time. - Gerald G.

Adventist reverts
Hi - I notice you are reverting these now. I did do a few earlier on and placed a question on the IP talk page concerned (got nothing back!). The edits starting looking more authentic so I was unsure about reverting any more. I'll keep an eye and know for the future. Regards -- Herby talk thyme 13:59, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure you'll notice but they've been at it again. Reverted so far! Cheers -- Herby  talk thyme 09:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
 * You're welcome -- Herby talk thyme 14:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your help
Hi, I just now saw your messages to me, and I'm not sure I've figured out much of the wiki stuff, but as you have modified equations and added formatting info, I've learned by looking at what you are doing.

I've been having a hard time staying focused on one topic, so I've been bouncing around. Yes, I'm interested in the knot tying, as well as looking at the stars and advanced stars, so as I get better at wiki editing, you may see me touch more areas.

-- Rodney East

Spiders
Hi Jim, Thanks for the help and encouragement.I am so new that I don't know how all this works. How and where am I to respond when someone puts something in "My Talk"? Also, I haven't figured out how to add pictures. I'd like to add pictures of spiders form the reference in #1 that requires the drawing of the spiders. I placed the website link to the pictures in that requirement. Can you either tell me how to add pictures or will you add them?

Thanks for all you do. --Stephanieeast 03:03, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Apologies
I took out the template marks as I understand "templates" to be quite different to chapters in the book (they certainly are in the rest of Wikibooks). -- Herby talk thyme 15:14, 24 November 2006 (UTC) This might be useful to you Help:A quick guide to templates as the {{ brackets are for templates -- Herby talk thyme 15:31, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi Jim
 * Maybe it's me but I guess I took templates to be largely about organising the way a part or part page looks throughout a book. However I fully accept that if you plan using the same text in several places your approach may well be the best one and sorry for the removal (I'll still keep an eye for vandals - watching gives you a flavour for what is going on).  The "popups" bit is some java script that makes checking changes and reverting them rather easier.  All the best -- Herby  {{sup| talk thyme }} 13:02, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

Me again
Hi Jim, just browsing (as I do) I see that you are adding the category to each page. Of course this means that all pages get categorised under "A" for Adventist. Not an issue to me but it depends on how you think/want people to look at the category. If you place | after the current text and before the final ]] brackets you may prefer the way the category sorts the page? I've just done Adventist Youth Honors Answer Book/Nature/Sand to show you how it looks - in the category in nows shows as N for Nature. Let me know if I can help - regards -- Herby talk thyme 14:58, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Up to you Jim but if you do want it doing I can do it semi automatically and much faster than you (no disrespect) as I have a bit of software that can help - let me know - regards -- Herby talk thyme 16:10, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Done 50 or so - will do more later or tomorrow (it does spelling too!). Let me know if I can help, regards -- Herby  talk thyme 16:37, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
 * OK Jim that "ran" at 9 pages per minutes overall so if you can go faster ....  There are one or two that needed manual review which I'll look at when I can but let me know if/when you want another run - regards -- Herby  talk thyme 18:08, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Page Edit Bot
Hey Jim! Haven't spoken to you in a while. I saw all your efforts to categorize the pages in your book. I just wanted to let you know that I have created a bot that can make edits to multiple pages at once. My bot can do things like add category links to all the pages in a book, for instance. If you have any other changes that you would like to make to multiple pages at once, let me know, and I can save you alot of effort! --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 03:24, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

 * If you are interested in my bot, and if you know perl, you might be interested in reading some of the documentation I have written about it at User:Whiteknight/Bot. My bot is written in 100% perl. I wrote a module that uses LWP to submit edits, and then I have been using TK to write GUIs for my library, so that I can make edits to multiple pages at once (with a foreach loop). I can send you some of the source code if you want. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 05:15, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Bots, edits & welcomes
Hi Jim. Looking at the post to WK on bot type stuff do let me know if I can help, it's quite a powerful piece of software that I have not explored all corners of yet but it can do a lot of editing to pages on a semi automatic basis. Once I've setup the "run" to cat your pages it can easily be run again - it will ignore pages that do not need editing. In passing I noticed that you "welcome" your contributors which is great - would it be wise to incorporate some of the conventional "welcome" template so that they have some hints about help, polices and the like? -- Herby talk thyme 13:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No idea Jim - I just use it! But if you want more info w:WP:AWB is the place I got it (I picked it up when I was more regular on Wikipedia).  As you'll see the features are quite extensive and I've enabled the spell checking on here tho I did notice yesterday it slipped up on a couple of words so I must see if there is an update.  All the best -- Herby  talk thyme 13:34, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Minus
I blocked this user, so he shouldn't be bothering you now. I'm trying to help with the clean-up. -within focus 07:03, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry I wasn't around to help but thanks for helping out - it is appreciated when people take part in the wider community. The vandalism page is a good one to report on as all admins will have that on their watch lists.  Regards -- Herby  talk thyme 08:17, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * And as a ps looking at it it was nasty for you - I've had similar but it isn't much fun. If you are a firefox user I could point to some useful .js which makes reverting and checking a little easier.  As too "wee small hours" for me it's not - different timezone :-) regards and thanks again -- Herby  talk thyme 08:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Thinking it thro Jim - there is another approach to this. I declined admin earlier on but a run in with someone similar changed my mind - I was frustrated that such a mindless idiot could get away with that kind of behaviour. I would have no problem at all nominating you for adminship.  You are a strong, conscientious and thoughtful editor.  However from your point of view I guess there is a sort of obligation to help on a project wide basis if only to a limited degree.  I can tell you from three days experience it is quite scary but if you are interested you know where I am and "no thanks" will not mean I won't do what I can to help you!  I suggest that you "reflect" rather than "react" but do think about it.  Regards -- Herby  talk thyme 13:07, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Jim - I'll get back to you as soon as i can on FF stuff, if you like I'll "load" your monobook.js with some bits - clear the cache and voila - play around, the worst that happens is you blank it if you don't like it. Also I'm not trying to "drag" you out of your spot.  I've always been a rather general editor anyway but I like the place & the people! -- Herby  talk thyme 20:13, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Requirements Outlined
Hi Jim. The requirements are outlined for all the honors that have the requirements available. Now it should be easier for others to fill in the answers. I hope the formatting and header info are correct. Rodney and I have done some of this work late at night. Let me know if you find things I need to fix. Thanks for all your hard work and commitment.

--Stephanieeast 02:27, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Templates and other included content
I noticed you put some sections in Adventist Youth Honors Answer Book/Arts and Crafts/Music into templates. I just wanted to alert you to an alternative which is to include normal pages. Any page can be included by typing Templates are a specialized type of shared content, intended for very frequently used notation, formatting, labelling, notification, etc. and therefore have a seperate namespace. The template-namespace means that they will not be searched by default while included normal pages would. --Swift 05:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

 * The following comment moved here from User talk:Swift--Swift 15:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi Swift,

 * I didn't know I there was a better way to include content on multiple pages other than with templates. Thanks for the tip.  I thought I had seen something on doing that a long time ago, but when I needed it, I couldn't find the info on how to do it.  And I did do a pretty thorough search! I finally mistakenly concluded that I must have been thinking about templates, so I went with that.  I have probably fifty such templates that I used for first aid and camping too.  Luckily, I prefixed them all with "Ay" when I created them, so maybe that will make them easier for me to find (though some of them should remain templates as they take arguments and are used throughout my book).  I think what you are suggesting is that I should make them "regular" pages, and then include them in all the place they are used.  Thanks again. Jim Thomas 14:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

 * You're welcome. Yes, this is precisely what I was suggesting. Regarding finding the pages, you can use the special page Special:Prefixindex/Template:Ay. Regarding resources on MediaWiki syntax, you might want to keep an eye on http://www.mediawiki.org/ where they are slowly buidling — among other things — a user manual/handbook. --Swift 15:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Hi Swift. Is there a way to figure out what modules include a template?  As it turns out "fifty" was off by at least a factor of two — perhaps three.  I have about fifty First aid templates, and I have used them in a lot of places — not only in the First Aid honors, but in some of the recreation ones as well (e.g. Winter Camping requires knowledge for treating hypothermia and frostbite).  I also found a bunch of Knot templates that are used all over the place.  If I have to search for them manually, it's going to take a lot of digging.

 * "Is there a way to figure out what modules include a template?" Yes, you can use the "What links here" tool in the toolbox just below the search box in the side-bar (e.g. Special:Whatlinkshere/Adventist_Youth_Honors_Answer_Book/Camping/Choosing_a_campsite). Included pages will have a "(inclusion)" behind the page link (just as redirects have "(redirect)").
 * Is this what you were looking for? --Swift 04:41, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes, that's it. I hadn't noticed the "What links here" link under the search box, but I did find the same thing when I was moving my templates - the request to check for double redirects does the same thing.  Anyhow, I have made a lot of progress moving the templates to regular pages now.  There's still a lot of work to do though.  Thanks again for the tip.

 * You're welcome. I'm glad I could help. --Swift 05:42, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Work to do!
Jim - Consider the cat run done - later today hopefully - it really is easier than individually editing everything. Back to FF do you use the default monobook? If so I will happily edit your .js or point you to the WP pages where I found stuff.

Community wide thoughts - if you are interested I think I would probably recommend looking at the Staff lounge and it's discussions as well as Votes for deletion and probably Request for Admin to get a flavour of what is around. If you feel like it contribute and folks will get to know you a little too. All the best -- Herby talk thyme 10:15, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes I had noted the postings - let me know if I can help you -- Herby talk thyme 16:56, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Life gets in the way sometimes  - it may well be tomorrow but I will get there - regards -- Herby talk thyme 18:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Interesting that got me learning (an experience I enjoy!). The issue was that I needed a way to "list" the pages (easily done by category but that isn't in yet!).  I'm working on User:Stephanieeast's contributions and it seems to be ok.  The only issues will be if there are pages that that user did not contribute to that you want included.  Regards -- Herby  talk thyme 17:56, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Done I think - let me know if not (& maybe who contributed to the pages) regards -- Herby talk thyme 18:11, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Fine - won't be today but I'll get it done as soon as I can -- Herby talk thyme 18:13, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Your main template
Jim - another spate so I have semi protected your main template. Registered users can edit - others not. Let me know if you want it unprotected (or any admin) Hopefully finishing with the broom again - regards -- Herby talk thyme 10:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Template:Honor header - no problem - all the best -- Herby talk thyme 16:46, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

Dealing with vandalism
Hi Jim - sorry to trouble you but I do know that this is something that concerns you too. Could I ask you to look at WB:RFA in the checkuser sections. This additional tool allows vandal fighters to discover what IP address was used by a named vandal and allow people to block that address to prevent creation of further accounts. There is a requirement for 25 votes to obtain these rights which on a small wiki is not easy. I stress I am not asking you to vote or to vote for a particular person but if you, and any registered contributor to your project, could look at this it may be helpful for the Wikibooks in the future. I hope you don't object to my approach. Regards -- Herby talk thyme 18:16, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * My thanks - & if I can help you, you do know that I will -- Herby talk thyme 18:45, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Checkuser
Hi Jim - I was hoping that someone who was one would get back to you on this so may not be fully correct or complete. The right allows someone to look into the "login" data past the user name. It allows viewing of the IP address which a named user logs in from. That way if we have a vandal with a name at present I can block the name permanently but I can only block the IP address for a short period & I will not be able to see the actual address. With checkuser rights I would see that IP address and be able to look at any other activity from that IP address. That way if there is a history of vandalism from that source I should be able to deal with the problem on a more permanent basis.

The checks that are now being requested when someone wants any additional rights on the RfA page are something that User:SB_Johnny and I both see as desirable. If you are seeking the trust of the community someone should take a look behind the name as it were to see if there is any history of problems with the IP address (something I think has been an issue on Wikipedia and less likely to be one here but I see it as a valid sign of trust). I hope this helps and thanks again for your support - regards -- Herby talk thyme 14:46, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Honor requirement Discussion
Hi Jim- As I have looked at a number of the honors, I've been concerned with how poorly written some are. Would the discussion section of a particular honor be a good place to entertain a discussion of the honor requirements themselves and possibly generate enough feedback to get some of these things changed?

I was working with my nephew over the Christmas holiday, on the Fishes honor. 10 families of fishes does not express the amount of variety that exist. For example does the fishes honor include the three classes of fish that currently exist. I was not sure from the wording if lamprey, or sharks are even a part of the honor. I personally think it would be good to talk about the 3 classes and then go down the taxonomic tree describing phylum or families, but to jump directly to families of fish denies much of the diversity.

When working on the Physics honor I was concerned with how little of physics was actually covered, You would not know that lighit, waves, quontum mechanics, thermodynamics or a number of other areas of physics were even part of the honor. In this case, I'd recomend some rewriting of the requirements, but also the writing of an advanced honor.

My question is should we have a special area to discuss possible changes to the honor. (To put this in context, ever year my area Coordinator asks for editorial changes for the honors, but it is always at the last minute, and I don't have notes of the problems just lying around- I'm looking for a repository for discussion of problems or improvements), And should this discussion area include the possibility of an Advanced honor?

or

Should we leave the normal Discussion section for this type of endevor?

--Rodney 13:04, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Wishes
Good ones for you and those you care about for 2007 - regards -- Herby talk thyme 17:37, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

SVG files not supported?
Many of the wikipedia image files for optics are vector based files .svg

I have not been able to use the files. Am I doing something wrong or to wikibooks not support .svg?

Thanks --Rodney 14:03, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Picture Issues
Hi Jim, Please look at the Mammal honor. I had some trouble with some of the pictures. If you could let me know what I did wrong I'd appreciate it. --Stephanieeast 06:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi Jim, I tried to follow your directions and I couldn't get it to work. I was able to copy the metadata and paste it in, but when I pasted the name into the Source File Name I got this error message, "The file you uploaded seems to be empty. This might be due to a typo in the file name. Please check whether you really want to upload this file." I copied the file name and pasted it in. What next? --Stephanieeast 00:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Jim, for the clarification. I will use the steps next time. Thank you for fixing the pictures this time:) --Stephanieeast 05:43, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

New rights
Jim - by way of thanks for the support and information. There was a vandal up to the usual on the 3rd, had you been around you would have seen him and had I been around I would have blocked him but no other information would have been available. Now I can tell you that the same IP address had been used quite recently for the same type of vandalism and equally that IP address has not been used recently for legitimate editing. As a result I was able to block the IP address for a while at least which will give us some peace from that particular one for a while. Thanks again for the support, regards -- Herby talk thyme 12:27, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Optics images and Some General ideas
Jim, I had thought the same thing about the optics images. I think I'd like to see them as separate images even so there is more flexibility for whoever wants to use them.

I'm planning on doing the slide projector and telescope to match the quality of some of the images (Like casagrain, or coude telescopes)

Stephanie and I have been working on the mammals honor recently. We decided to do one together. As I was working on it I started thinking about two somewhat related issues and how to best deal with them.
 * 1) Units- It seems to be common practice on wikipedia to have metric units followed by English units. I find this irritating. I think one of the main reasons that we still use English units in the United states is that all math courses are taught with conversions from one unit to another. This translates to "difficult" in peoples brains.

In the wiki format we have the ability to give just the metric unit, but if the person wants to convert they can click on the number and use the Google conversion capability to do the conversion for them. I have done this in the mammal honor, and would like to possibly make this a standard for the AY honor books.

 * 2) Scientific names- I have noticed that it is common practice to have the common name and then in parenthesis the scientific name. I think the scientific name is more useful, and what people do with things in parenthesis is ignore them.

In similar reasoning to the above, I'd like to try reversing this and have the scientific name and then in parenthesis the common name.

What do you think about these two issues

--Rodney 14:46, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks (I think)
You realize of course that this just means more work :). -- SB_Johnny | talk 18:12, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Metric Units
I've written up some Javascript that should make the conversion between metric and english units very easy. I left a large note about it in the staff lounge. If you would like to test this script, let me know. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 03:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah... the sweet smell of progress! I slapped the template in my user page, and it does indeed give me Kg - but I don't see the "convert units" link in the toolbox.  Do I hafta to do something else to make that happen?  Also, the links in the Staff Lounge are red, leading me to Template:User:Whiteknight/Convtest.  I took out the "template" and was able to find it OK, but you might wanna fix it in the SL. Jim Thomas 03:33, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Good call on the templates, i did indeed get the links incorrect. I will fix that ASAP. As to the link, you actually need to monkey around with your personal javascript. Go to User:Jomegat/monobook.js, and include the following line:

document.write(' '); Once you include this in your javascript, save it, and then use Ctrl+F5 to refresh the page with the templates. That should popup the link. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 03:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

 * That works pretty well. Thanks.  I may grab a copy and play with it myself a little.  Maybe it's time I learned Javascript. Is there any chance that once this evolves a bit more it'll be installed site-wide?  I think the people who would benefit most from this are prolly not going to go through the trouble of editing a monobook.js file.  Jim Thomas 06:10, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi, and thanks for the welcome
My real name is Joe Lee and I don't mind if you use it in the info box. I don't know how much I'll be able to help with the answer book, it will probably be fairly sporadic. I really appreciate all the work you have done on it. I have already been able to use it for several honors my club has worked on this year. MrJoe 19:59, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Remaining Adventist Youth templates
Jomegat, I came across many unused templates (or you may view them at here) associated with the Adventist Youth wikibook. They are all the redirects from when you moved them into main-namespace modules. If they are unnecessary, and while I don't expect you to tag them all, may I kindly ask that you request at WB:AN that they be deleted?

Also, would you be interested in Template:Ay music clefs? It looks like a module, but it has not been redirected. Thank you, Iamunknown 01:19, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the heads up. I left a message at WB:AN as requested.  I'll hafta look into the music clefs page.  I moved it to a place where I'll be able to find it later, so the template can go (it didn't belong there). Jim Thomas 01:49, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Thank you. BTW, The Adventist Youth Wikibook is very well done. It has many illustrations and is rather complete. Keep up the good work. :) --Iamunknown 02:01, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the compliment. I have thoroughly enjoyed my work on it (why else would anyone work on one anyhow?) Jim Thomas 02:11, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Cont'd
I know at WB:AN you mentioned that there exist other template redirects, and that you weren't "quite ready for them to go the way of the dodo yet." When you are, would mind taking a look at Special:Prefixindex/Template:Ay and Special:Prefixindex/Template:First aid. And, if you don't want them deleted yet, please just say, "Stop!" and I'll stop. --Iamunknown 04:31, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

 * The First Aid ones and the Ay ones (other than the three I mentioned) are ready to go. I have other templates elsewhere that I still need to clean up.  I'll let you know when they're ready.

 * Ack, I'm sorry. I overlooked that I'd already asked about the Ay templates. Sorry. --Iamunknown 04:49, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

 * No need to apologize. And let's make sure that this tedious task you've undertaken is not a thankless one too: THANK YOU!  -- Jim Thomas 04:52, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I made a massive table / list of the links (with delete links) at User:Iamunknown/Speedy. I removed the three Ay templates that are not redirects / are being used. I hope it is okay. --Iamunknown 05:13, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

 * It looks OK to me. Pull the trigger! (and thanks again). -- Jim Thomas 05:28, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Links...
We need a better help page on how to do chapter linking, but here's the basics:

 * To link to a subpage of the page you're working on, use /SUBPAGENAME/
 * To link from one subpage to another, use ../SUBPAGENAME/
 * If you're not using a "flat structure" (i.e., if your chapters have subchapters), it gets more complicated... that's why flat structures are generally preferred (Book/Chapter rather than Book/Chapter/Subchapter). -- SB_Johnny | talk 16:40, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

WB:RFA
I have nominated you for adminship, in recognition of your long time of being a helpful editor and prolific contributor to wikibooks. I think that admin tools will be useful in writing your book, and helping out in other ways. Adminship is not intended to be additional responsibility nor an additional drain on your time, although i wont deny that it does bring some measure of additional responsibility.

I do hope you accept your nomination, but if you choose not to I will certainly understand. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 00:47, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Re:Decision Making
Thanks for the catch! i always forget what shortcuts link to where. I'll update the link. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 22:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

umm...
Not sure if you had brought it up elsewhere, but I blocked the IP for 1 month (account creation allowed). Soon you'll not need to report, eh? -- SB_Johnny | talk 23:16, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I hadn't brought it up on anywhere else - I was thinking of a very similar sort of problem caused by a different IP. Thanks for the block.  I figure it's time for me to be a little more active on the RC patrols since the reality of my gaining adminship is looking imminent.  -- Jim Thomas 00:08, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Template:Bird id
I did some work on this template, and added an optional audio link when you specify a "call" parameter. I can do some more cleanup work on the template too, if you want. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 00:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Sysop
Due to your full support on WB:RFA, you are now a sysop. -within focus 13:27, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Congratulations! Let me know if you have any questions about how the tools work, etc. -- SB_Johnny | talk 13:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Template%3ABird_id
Hi! FYI with a thought. This template caught my eye as being of possible interest on Wikispecies, so I added some usage. What would you think of fixing it up to take another two images, but to auto-scale the images to about 1/3rd width... if there are three (keeping this size if less) then someone could put up six panes or three and have a tighter presentation. If interested, let me know, I can probably do that fairly easily. Best regards. // Fra nkB 14:14, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Frank! Yes - PLEASE make those changes.  I had asked for something very similar in the Wikibooks technical chat room.  It is well beyond my current capabilities to do just as you have suggested.  Originally the images were named image_male, image_female, and image_juvenile, but then I started coming across photos of a male and a female together. So I decided to make them generic.  Do you think the range map should retain its name or should it be generic too?  I have used this template in few enough areas that I'm not concerned about backwards compatibility.  Another thought would be to have the description field take the place of an image if only one image were specified. -- Jim Thomas (aka Jomegat) 14:31, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

VfD
Hi Jim - hope you don't mind but IMO that is really a form of spam and I've binned it. I would stress it doesn't make you wrong - it makes me hasty. Glad to see the toys are working - all the best -- Herby talk thyme 07:59, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * No problem - I always tried to do the same - even got it right sometimes! You know where I am if I can help -- Herby  talk thyme 12:49, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks
Just a quick thanks for reverting some minor vandalism on the Blender 3D: Noob to Pro/Basic Animation/Lattice page --AndyD 17:12, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Template:Stage short
The carriage return(s) should be removed now. Sorry about the hassle. --Iamunknown 01:36, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Are you comfortable...
I needed C++ Programming/Win32 deleted and its history logs pages merged with C++ Programming/API/Win32 are you comfortable enough to attempt to do that? --Panic 02:32, 28 March 2007 (UTC) Humm the problem must have be a protection on the original page (it was protected after the books merge) probably to avoid tha same thing, the history log to be lost. --Panic 02:34, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Recent vandal
Hi Jim - just looking at logs I noticed you blocked a vandal for a month. Looking at the user page on wp I've changed the blo9ck to indef. Equally the IP shows a previous vandal on there recently so I will block that for a while shortly. Hope you don't mind and that all is well. Regards -- Herby talk thyme 17:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't mind at all. BTW, I was going to leave a message on his talk page, but was unable to conjure up a template.  I tried subst:block and subst:blocked, but neither of those exist.  I wasn't feeling particularly creative, so I just didn't leave a message at all.  Is there a template for this? -- Jim Thomas (aka Jomegat) 17:35, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * One of those "I think I got bored looking" ones! These days I just pop something on the page about "you are blocked - please play nicely when you come back" type thing.  I guess a post to staff lounge (one of them) might produce a better answer.  For information the underlying IP is well blocked on Wikipedia and Commons so a good catch there - thanks and all the best -- Herby  talk thyme 17:59, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Well we both learnt something there - I think I was aware I'd seen something, just didn't expect it under the "test" section. I also recall seeing Whiteknight's argument before too. In practice most of the vandals we get have quite long histories on wikipedia (worth checking the page there when blocking) so are well aware of how to find when blocks expire.
 * reset

To me the more important thing is to make it clear we do not have a "vandalize anything you like but stop at the fourth warning or we will block you" policy of Wikipedia. So - depending on the extent and nature of the vandalism I will block immediately or certainly after one warning (they do know what they are doing after all). Equally if there is a history on WP I will refer to that (& so would not use a standard template) and will often block for quite a long time of what is a "first offense" here. I ran this past Derbeth sometime ago and he also takes records on other Wikis into account (I often check Commons too as I spend some time there as well). This, to me, sends a message that we are less tolerant of bad behavior on Books which seems correct. Thanks for the way you have dived in Jim - regards -- Herby talk thyme 12:21, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Would like to hear your opinion...
Take a look into Policies and guidelines/Vote/What is Wikibooks a proposed policy decission page and cast your vote, txs. --Panic 04:33, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Anonymous IP blocking
I noticed you forgot to put your signature in on this user page: User talk:70.73.216.199, which is something minor. What is major is that without warning, you blocked this IP address for a whole month, which is quite a lengthy period of time. I would advise you to set an earlier expiration date for the block, if you please. Best. Marcus2 17:34, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and signed the block notice (I was in a hurry when I blocked that user), but I am not inclined to back off the block time. The edits this user made were particularly distasteful, and edits of the same nature had been made from that IP the week before.  A month seems about right to me. -- Jomegat 00:58, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Sorry to intrude but for your discussion I think you should be made aware that a decission on the Policies and guidelines/Vote/Blocking policy is running and your input may be important, txs... --Panic 02:27, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

 * And on further consideration, I have reduced the block to two weeks instead of one month. -- Jomegat 02:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

User:72.83.216.10
I hope you dont mind, but i blocked this ip for 1 day after your warning. When people make very profane vandalism, i dont see a reason to give them a second chance. "Suck my ****" is just not acceptable, and i dont think we should be dealing with that stuff.

If you disagree, you can certainly unblock the IP. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 00:31, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't disagree at all. And indeed, I will adopt the same practice myself.  BTW, thanks for supporting Adventist Youth Honors Answer Book as a Featured Book.  It is greatly appreciated.  I did hesitate to nominate it for the very reason it has one opposing vote.  I have not said anything to my other contributors (they don't come around too often, and they surely don't watch the nominations page) because like me, they would be biased, and I was looking for unbiased opinions. -- Jomegat 00:39, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Everybody has a different personal policy involving blocks. I tend not to give warnings, although i know many other admins who do. I find that if the vandalism is bad enough to deserve a warning, the vandal likely deserves a short block as well. If the mess isnt bad enough for a warning, i tend to send them a warm welcome instead. That's just me though, everybody has their own way and you need to figure out what you are most comfortable with.
 * As to the pathfinder's book, I was a boy scout for many years (which i know isn't exactly the same thing) so I tend to know good instructional material for youth groups when i see it. I also know that it's more important to write manuals for the 50 most important "honors" then it is to write manuals for all the millions that exist (but that nobody ever earns). --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 00:45, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

 * The funny thing is that I started this book because, although there are official resources, they only cover four of the nine categories. People were always asking about the ones that did not exist on the forums, and someone asked again just after I stumbled across Wikibooks.  Thus, the project was born.  The original scope of the project was to write answers for the honor that had none - those millions nobody ever earns.  Other people encouraged me to make room for all of them, and I'm glad I listened.  One of them runs the outfit that sells the official books.  The book has an international following now, and I have heard from a lot of people for whom it is the only resource available (the official books are not cheap).  At first I just concentrated on the honors that had no answers, but after about a year of that, I was getting tapped out on expertise.  So I have now turned my attention to writing up the honors that do have official answers. -- Jomegat 00:54, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

What is Wikijunior
What is Wikijunior is proposed as a policy and has been included on the Wikibooks Policies and Guidelines Voting page. Please take time to comment and express your opinion in the referendum. -- xixtas talk 03:08, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Template:Featured book
I saw some of the work you were doing on Template:Goodbook2, and it inspired me to modify the Template:Featured book. I updated it so it uses an #ifexist: statement to differentiate between books who have the proper goodbook template, and those that do not have one. Let me know what you think about it, and sorry if i stole your thunder! --Whiteknight (talk) 01:13, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Seems like we cross-posted! We do think alot alike, but I also have been watching you on the RC patrol (you're a machine!). --Whiteknight (talk) 01:15, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

IP blocking...
Hi Jim. Just to be safe, it's generally better to block problem IPs for a year (or shorter), rather than indefinite, since IP addresses can be transferred over time. Also, for IPs adding serial spam like that, I generally unselect "anonymous users only", because otherwise accounts can still edit using the IP (sort of helps to have checkuser to be safe there, but if some unintentional collateral blocking happens, they can use the unblock template and get our attention). -- SB_Johnny | talk 16:17, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * OK. Thanks for the education. --Jomegat 16:38, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Non-fiction versus textbooks
G'day Jomegat, please read the recent change made to WB:WIW in context. Before the anon edit, it said that "As a general rule, most non-fiction books are not suitable for inclusion as they are not instructional." This is correct; whilst textbooks are (generally) non-fiction, not all non-fiction books are textbooks. For example, travel guides, dictionaries and encyclopaedia are usually non-fiction but are not suitable for Wikibooks as they are non textbooks. The next sentence says that "Fiction is not allowed on Wikibooks, although the use of allegory or fables as instructional tools can be permitted in some situations." This covers the situation that I believe the anon editor was aiming for.

Please revert your edit if you agree, or reply below (your talk page, not mine) and we can continue this discussion further. cheers, Webaware talk 04:25, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Hi Webaware. As you can see, I saw the brilliance of your logic and have reverted the edit. Thanks for pointing it out, and sorry for the confusion. --Jomegat 00:21, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

 * No worries, it was an easy mistake to make. cheers, Webaware talk 00:25, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Boneset!
Hey Jim! So nice to see a photo of that up now... someone had actually added an image of a different plant on the wikipedia page, which I had removed a few days ago. I used that image on this page on Wikiversity, and had a thought that you and the Youth Honors folks might be interested in participating on the bloom clock in general. It's a research project aimed in part at defining a global language for discussing bloom times, but also for creating illustrated keys by region and month (see Bloom Clock/White flowers seen in July in Southeastern Pennsylvania... the boneset picture actually appears on that page too now). Log entries from NH would be very nice (for me), since I go up there a couple times per year to visit my father-in-law on his farm near Charlestown. There's one other page I worked on recently that might provide some ideas as well for how to contribute. -- SB_Johnny | PA! 10:00, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I didn't know about the bloom clock project, but yes, I am very interested in participating. I have been involved in a similar project related to reptiles and amphibians http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Wildlife/Nongame/reptiles_amphibians.htm - only the NH Fish and Game department's implementation is a little clunky.  This looks to be a better setup for the same sort of data.  As for involving other people involved in Pathfinders, I will mention it to the ones I know and post a message on our forum.  NHF&G asks for (but does not demand) a photo of every sighting - I wonder if that would be a good idea for the bloom clock.  It would help weed out false data and perhaps bump up the number of photo contributions.
 * False data could concievably be a problem, but I really sort of doubt it. My "plan" is to just ignore people who are adding things that look a bit funny, then just delete their logs a year or so after they get bored of playing silly. Eventually I'd like this to be peer-reviewed and come up with a global language of bloom time, but I'm thinking we'll need at least 10 years of data before we can get there, so there's plenty of time to set that up. Also, I'd rather people not upload image files unless they're an improvement over files already available on commons (fuzzy cell-phone-camera photos are better than no photos at all, but if there are already good ones, let's just stay conservative with the disk space). -- SB_Johnny | PA! 17:44, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The plant I uploaded last night is growing next to the kid's swing set in an un-mown section of my backyard. There's also some Whorled Loosestrife out there and some Wild Sarsaparilla.  The Loosestrife is done blooming now for the most part - it's very difficult to find blossoms anymore - but I uploaded a pic of the sarsaparilla.  I have several more shots of some unknowns.  A personal goal I set for myself is to id every plant growing on my two acres of New Hampshire.  I am far from reaching that goal, but Boneset, Loosestrife, and Wild Sarsaparilla are plants that were previously unknown to me.  I've also got a plant in bloom right now and can't decide if it's catnip or downy wood mint.  I'll upload it to the unknown section as soon as I get a chance.
 * Incidentally, I have had an REM song stuck in my head for the past several days because I perceive that it contains the word "boneset". Dunno if it really does, and I don't even know the name of the song. --Jomegat 13:47, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Oh man... just lovin you right now :). I'd definitely "Support" a reptile clock as well... actually my first outreach project for Wikimedia Pennsylvania will be with a group that wants to start a butterfly clock/key using the same methods as the bloom clock. Given several years of contributions, these "distributed research" projects could really help us understand natural relationships in time and space (i.e., when Plant X is flowering, it's time to start looking for Turtle Y or Butterfly Z). Fun stuff... it took me almost a year to figure out the templating and logistical problems, but the Bloom Clock's structure should be easily adaptable to similar things. -- SB_Johnny | PA! 17:38, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Turns out the REM song is Swan, Swan, H, and the lyric is
 * Hey captain don't you want to buy Some bone chains and toothpicks?
 * But "bone chains" is close enough to "boneset" to get it stuck in my head. --Jomegat 00:13, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

 * My unknown was the first one on the list of unknowns! But I'm not sure it's really Prunella vulgaris - note that your specimen (and mine) has an entire edge, but the one on Wikipedia has a serrated edge.  Actually, all my books indicate that catnip should have a serrated edge too, and that's what has been holding me back on calling it that.  I had just about settled in my mind that I was looking at downy wood mint. --Jomegat 14:04, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Nevermind. Maybe it is Prunella vulgaris.   went outside and found two specimens side-by-side - one with an entire, and another with a serrated margin. --Jomegat 15:36, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Heh, I've been keying that last couple days, and yes, Franz is right (he's a botanist, and a German to boot (so really likes to be precise :_))). -- SB_Johnny | PA! 17:38, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Keys are up
With a bit of DPL magic...
 * Bloom_Clock/Flowers_seen_in_July_in_New_Hampshire
 * Bloom_Clock/Flowers_seen_in_August_in_New_Hampshire

I'm writing something up on how to actually do that, it's easy enough :). -- SB_Johnny | PA! 11:01, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks! I assume you have a template for making pages like this? --Jomegat 13:39, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Yup, see v:Template:Bcp3 :). It's damn complicated though (hit the edit button to see all sorts of nasty inclusion/exclusion tricks). Make sure to use subst, otherwise the thing won't work :P. -- SB_Johnny  | PA! 14:49, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Oh, um, er... I forgot to tell you about the cats as well (sorry, I've been the only one doing that stuff on the clock so far). If you want to add a page onto the key, you just categorize it (for this month use
 * Category:BCP/NHAMP/8 (in brackets, of course)
 * Then it will be automatically added to the DPL generation page (Bloom_Clock/Flowers_seen_in_August_in_New_Hampshire/DPL) within a half hour or so (as the database is updated).
 * I'm going to be AFK a few hours, but can fill you in this eve. -- SB_Johnny | PA! 15:20, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
 * And here's a diff: diff. -- SB_Johnny  | PA! 16:48, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jomegat/Archive 1


text:
Georgia Water/Policy

Chapter 2. Water Resources Policy in Georgia

 * Contributors

2.1. Policy Process and Purpose

2.2. History of Georgia Water Law and Policy

2.3. Present Water Laws in Georgia
 * Federal Water Law
 * State Water Law
 * Local Government Ordinances

2.4. Implementation of Water Policy

2.5. Water Policy Issues Needing Review

 * Background
 * Instream Flow Policy
 * Water Quantity Allocation Policy
 * Ground Water Policy
 * Water Conservation-Efficiency-Reuse Policy
 * Water Quality (TMDL) Allocation Policy
 * Additional Water Issues (put your addition here)
 * /Georgia Coastal Management Act/
 * /Georgia Coastal Marshlands Protection Act/
 * /Georgia Conservation Use Act/

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Georgia Water/Policy


text:
User talk:Tomrandall

Copyright problem with Image:Sponge-header.jpg
--Derbeth 21:35, 10 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Tomrandall


text:
Geometry/Chapter 2

Section 2.1 - Proofs
Proofs are set up to let the user understand what steps were taken in order to receive a given output. There are three types of proofs depending on which is easiest to the student.

Two-Column proofs
Two-column proofs (also known as formal proofs) are set up in a two-value table, one being "Statement" and the other being "Reason". To prove a simple problem using this method, set up a table like the following:

Be sure to leave room for values to go in both columns. In geometry, the first row is the 'given' of the problem. This is the information that is given about a certain problem without using a picture. The last row should be the conclusion of what you are trying to prove.

Example of a two-column proof
Now, suppose a problem tells you to solve $$x + 1 = 2$$ for $$x$$, showing all steps made to get to the answer. A proof shows how this is done:

We use "Given" as the first reason, as it is "given" to us in the problem.

Written Proof
Written proofs (also known as informal proofs, paragraph proofs, or 'plans for proof') are written in paragraph form. Other than this formatting difference, they are similar to two-column proofs.

Sometimes it is helpful to start with a written proof, before formalizing the proof in two-column form. If you're having trouble putting your proof into two column form, try "talking it out" in a written proof first.

Example of a Written Proof
We are given that x + 1 = 2, so if we subtract one from each side of the equation (x + 1 - 1 = 2 - 1), then we can see that x = 1 by the definition of subtraction.

Flowchart Proof
A flowchart proof or more simply a flow proof is a graphical representation of a two-column proof. Each set of statement and reasons are recorded in a box and then arrows are drawn from one step to another. This method shows how different ideas come together to formulate the proof.

Section 2.2 - Reasons
Every concept in geometry flows in a logical progression. One simply cannot go from A to B without explaining how or why. For instance, the following is not a proof:

$$5(x+1)^2-x$$ $$x=4$$

Also, we cannot make up reasons why we made the next step so. Therefore, we can only use certain information as our reasons. These include:

1. Given: This is generally either the problem (equation) we are trying to solve, or some piece of important information given in the problem.

2. Properties: These for the most part are the basic mathematical functions of adding, subtracting, multiplying, and dividing, such as the second reason in the example above (Property of Subtraction).

3. Definitions: Again, saying "Because it is" is not a reason. This sort of reasoning is not seen as often as other reasons. By using definitions, sometimes the answer or part of the working of a proof can be shortened. For example, by using the reason "definition of a bisector" (and being already able to prove through either given information or earlier parts of the proof), you can prove that two adjoining angles are congruent without having to go through a more lengthy proof.

4. Postulates: They hold the same value as theorems (explained next), except that they cannot be proven. However, these generalized rules have proven correct for a very long time and can be accepted with proof of their validity. An example is "Through any two points, there is exactly one line". While it cannot be proven through a proof (although the authors dare anyone to disprove it), it is accepted as a reason. There are few of these, so as good as it may sound, if you make it up, someone will notice.

5. Theorems: Theorems are statements that have been proven true through proofs of their own. They are especially helpful shortcuts in their own right as by stating a theorem, a great many things are proven and you do not have to do all the work of re-proving the theorem. Theorems can be simple ("If two lines intersect, they intersect in exactly one point.") or very complex ("The composite of two isometries is an isometry." [Don't panic if you don't understand; it will be explained later on]). Sometimes, you will be given the proofs for theorems; othertimes, as part of the exercises, you will be asked to prove it yourself.

6. Axioms: For most purposes, the same as postulates. The difference is that axioms are algebraic in nature, while postulates come mainly from geometry.

7. Corollaries: These are statements that stem from what becomes proven in theorems and definitions and do not require (though usually have) separate proofs themselves.

In many textbooks, the proofs are numbered for an index at the back of the book. When doing correct geometric proofs, it is NOT OK to write down "Theorem 15". Write out the statement exactly as it was given to you (yes, you have to do some memorization for geometry). You have to make sure that the information in the box is related to the earlier box.

Exercises
Answers to each exercise can be found separately in the appendix.

1.

Given: Prove: Find the measures of the other seven angles in the accompanying figure (above).
 * $$r || s$$ r is parallel to s
 * $$\angle 1=60^\circ$$ Angle 1 = 60 degrees.

2.

Given: Prove: Lines r and s are parallel.
 * $$\angle 2 \cong \angle 3$$ Angles 2 and 3 are congruent

3.

Given: Prove: Lines a and b in the figure are parallel.
 * $$\angle 1 = \angle 2 = 90^\circ$$ Angles 1 and 2 are both 90 ⁰

4.

Given:
 * $$\overline{GH} || \overrightarrow{DK}$$ Line GH is parallel to ray DK
 * $$\angle 6 = 75^\circ$$ Angle 6 = 75 degrees.
 * $$\angle 2 = 30^\circ$$ Angle 2 = 30 degrees.

Prove: Find the measure of each numbered angle in the figure above.

Section 2.4: Proof by contradiction
Proof by contradiction, also known as indirect proofs, prove that a statement is true by showing that the proposition's being false would imply a contradiction.

A classic example: Proving that the square root of 2 is irrational

 * 1) Assume that $$\sqrt{2}$$ is a rational number, meaning that there exists an integer $$a$$ and an integer $$b$$ in general such that $$a/b = \sqrt{2}$$.
 * 2) Then, $$\sqrt{2}$$ can be written as a simplified fraction $$a/b$$ such that $$a$$ and $$b$$ are coprime integers, that is, their greatest common divisor being 1.
 * 3) It follows that $$a^2 / b^2 = 2$$ and $$a^2 = 2 b^2$$.   ( $$(a/b)^n = a^n/b^n$$  )
 * 4) Therefore $$a^2$$ is even, as it is equal to $$2 b^2$$. ($$2 b^2$$ is necessarily even, as it is 2 times another whole number, and even numbers are multiples of 2.)
 * 5) It follows that $$a$$ must be even (as squares of odd integers are never even).
 * 6) Because $$a$$ is even, there exists an integer $$k$$ that fulfills: $$a = 2k$$.
 * 7) Substituting $$2k$$ from step 6 for $$a$$ in the second equation of step 3: $$(2k)^2 = 2 b^2$$ is equivalent to $$4k^2 = 2b^2$$, which is equivalent to $$2k^2 = b^2$$.
 * 8) Because $$2k^2$$ is divisible by two and therefore even, and as $$2k^2 = b^2$$, it follows that $$b^2$$ is also even, which means that $$b$$ is even.
 * 9) By steps 5 and 8 $$a$$ and $$b$$ are both even, which contradicts that $$a/b$$ is irreducible as stated in step 2.

As there is a contradiction, the assumption (1) that $$\sqrt{2}$$ is a rational number must be false. By the law of excluded middle, that is, that a proposition can only be true or false, the opposite is proven: $$\sqrt{2}$$ is irrational.

title: Geometry/Chapter 2


text:
Georgia Water/Management Programs

Chapter 3. Management

 * Contributors

3.1. Overview of Water Management

3.2. Management Programs by Resource
 * Surface Water Quantity
 * Ground Water Quantity
 * Water Quality
 * Erosion and Sedimentation
 * Aquatic Ecosystems (and Fish)

3.3. Management Programs by Organization
 * Federal Agencies
 * State Agencies
 * Regional Agencies
 * Counties (see water supply/wastewater service delivery)
 * Cities
 * NonGovernment Organizations

3.4. Inventory of Decision Responsibilities
 * Federal Agencies
 * State Agencies
 * Regional Agencies
 * Counties
 * Cities
 * NonGovernment Organizations
 * Private Entities

3.5. References

title: Georgia Water/Management Programs


text:
Georgia Water/Information

Chapter 4. Information

4.1. Rivers, Lakes, Aquifers

4.2. Directory - People

4.3. Directory - Organizations

4.4. Education and Training

4.5. Research

4.6. Water Law and Policy

4.7. Best Practices and Examples

4.8. Plans and Proposals

4.9. Major Water Projects

4.10. Funding Programs

4.11. Technical Assistance

4.12. Data and Maps

4.13. News

4.14. History and Culture

4.15. References

title: Georgia Water/Information


text:
User:Yahweh divine

CONTENT DELETED AT THE REQUEST OF THE USER!

title: User:Yahweh divine


text:
Cookbook talk:Pico de Gallo

Dude, Pico de Gallo can be compared to salsa, but it is certainly not what North Americans mean when they say salsa. Flavor and water content are way different. If anything, it's Mexicans who call it Salsa de Mexicana because of the colors.

tomatoes
What kind of tomato is good to use? Should it be peeled? seeds removed? dave 07:09, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, this is a big omission. Pico should have tomatoes. Honestly, Dave? Campari on the vine tomatoes, de seeeded and chopped, are amazing in this version of pico. They're sweet, and offset the spice nicely. Personally, though, I use red onion rather than yellow or white. Most traditional pico, speaking from living in the tex mex region for a good while, uses red onions.

title: Cookbook talk:Pico de Gallo


text:
Blended Learning in K-12/Types of Blended Learning/Classroom Websites

Using Websites for Blended Learning in K-12

Innovakids Classroom/School Website - Web Based Learning
site is designed as a full service Educational Website created to assist Teachers, Parents, Administrators and Students in centralizing the learning environment. This site is designed to integrate learning with classroom management. This site is designed for K to College.

Features
Online notebook for all your lessons, lesson plans, tests, quizzes, pacing plans, gradebook, student general information, etc... This is not a quiz system, this is a lesson system. Each question you create is connected to a concept page that teaches. Each concept is then connected to a standard. Automate your quizzes allowing students to access them from school or home. Give students a chance to retake exams until they learn the material. Automatically have Innovakids send you and the parents emails each time their child takes a quiz. Automatically send progress reports for an entire class to parents email with a single button click. Place class announcements online. Import lessons and lesson plans from other teachers all around the world. (Finally teacher lessons that work are shared and available throughout your department, school, district and the world) Create blog discussions about your lesson. Setup international chats with classes around the world. Place powerpoint lessons in an online environment using the innovakids lesson module, where you can access online for class demonstrations and direct instruction. (In Addition to sharing these with other teachers) But you have the added advantage of connecting each page of the powerpoint to an assessement question and students can access these lessons on their own)

THE INNOVAKIDS CONCEPT
The Innovakids.com concept integrates the requirements of classroom management with the overall Standardized Curriculum focus needed to move our students to Proficiency. With the requirements of NCLB (No Child Left Behind), schools are faced with the dilemma of finding innovative ways to teach our children differently. The Innovakids site was created by teachers who saw a need for a tool to integrated the collaborative knowledge base of teachers across the nation into a centralized fully usable data-warehouse and interactive web based environment. Not simple a system that allows teachers and parents to access grades online, or a system of computerizing tests with automated grading, but a fully integrated school system that centralizes all the content, lessons, quizzes, lesson plans, assessment, discipline, grade books, student management, curriculum, homework, progress reports and more into a system that individualizes the learning plans of each student and links these resource into the State Standards of Education.

INNOVAKIDS FEATURES
Integrated Student Database - The Innovakids database allows educators a web based interface to enter and access the basic student information needed in the course of a school year. This database includes the student’s parent and home information, contact information as well as basic medical requirements. Through this database the teacher can access phone numbers, addresses, and email accounts of the students parents and guardians. Grade book – The integrated grade book automatically is updated with grades as the students complete each lesson and assessment. The teacher can add grades manually, edit grades or print progress and grade reports with the most current grade information. Parents can access current grades online and well as receive emails of completed lessons and progress reports. Teachers can print progress reports, charts and graphs and view real times reports and graphs as students are working. Student Schedules – Parents, teachers and students can view and print their entire school schedule through the web interface. Online Assessments – All lesson and class related assessments are available online for immediate grading or printable through the teacher interface. These assessments are automatically graded and grades are immediately updated in the online grade book. Online Quizzes – Each lesson concept includes a question used for immediate evaluation of that concept. Online Lessons – In place of PowerPoint slides and Transparencies the Innovakids system allows teachers to build the concept slides directly into the site via web browser from any location. Teacher may add video, sound, images, Concept information, and a question to each concept. The slides are unlimited for each lesson although we recommend between 10 and 20 per lesson. After the lessons are added on line they are available to any teacher using the system via the lesson library. Each lesson is linked to a state standard and allows any teacher search by key word or by standard to see all the other lessons in the system associated to that standard. Automatic Emailing of Student Progress Reports – The most important feature is the email and mail function that allows students to receive lesson progress reports after each student completes their lesson. This automatically send progress report list not only the name of lesson and associated standard but the questions and concepts that the student marked incorrectly and calculates and displays the students current grade for that class based on this completed lesson. Quizzes Integrated with online Lessons – Each concept in the lesson has an associated assessment question that is asked as the student reads the concept. If the student marks the question incorrectly the system returns the student back to the concept page where that information was taught or can return the student back to the beginning of the lesson allowing for repetition of the lesson. The grading for each lesson is determined via a calculated total of each concept question (even if the concept was repeated) divided by the number of questions answered correctly. (i.e. If the student answered 10 questions but had to re-answer 2 of the questions then the grade would be based on 12 total questions divided by the number that were answered correctly.) Administration Systems fully integrated – Graphs, Reports and Charts depicting overall teacher, standard, concept and student results from each lesson. This system also reports on overall understanding and progress of each standard being taught by grade, ethnicity, teacher, team, or grouping. Lesson Plan sharing – Just like the online lessons the Lesson Plan Library is a central shareable library where teachers around the world can input lesson plans, link them to online lessons and standards. These Lesson Plans will print in the Lesson Book at the end to assist the teacher in planning their class period activities. Import lessons and quizzes from other teachers - The Online lesson library includes the ability to create new lessons and share them automatically with other teachers. This allows teachers to search by keyword for related lessons or by standard for lessons that fit their particular pacing guide or curriculum. Once these lessons and quizzes are imported the teacher may customize them to fit their needs. Progress Reports – Students, Parents and Teachers may print or view online a progress report for any class or a summary progress report for all classes. These progress reports can also be automatically emailed to each student’s parents in a class with the pressing of one button or emailed to an individual’s parent. The progress reports can also be printed for an entire class or individual student and includes a formatting that includes the parent’s name and address for mailing in windowed envelopes. Parent communication – The integration with parent communication tools is essential for the system. This toolset includes: Online access for parents via the web; Mailed and automatically emailed progress reports; Automatically emailed lesson completion reports; Discipline reports (Referrals) automatically attached to progress reports (emailed, mailed, online or printed); Notification online of class and school events; Online communication with parents via email and discussion groups; Online chat rooms for parents to chat with administrators and teachers at set times. Teacher and Student Observations – Student observations are available for input by the teacher via the web. Student Team Management – Student teams in each class can be easily input into the system. Teachers can quickly view what students are on what teams for assignments and assessment summarizing. Seating Charts – Student seating charts are online and easily accessible by teachers, subs and administrators. Curriculum Plan – District Pacing guides, Department Curriculum Plans and/or Teacher class curriculum plans are input online and easily available via the web. Classroom Management – The system is designed to give teachers a fully integrated classroom management system to centralize and share the resource used for each subject. The Student management system allows for quick integrated access of addresses, phone numbers, discipline records, standardized test information, special ed information and academic information. The concept is to allow teachers and administrators to enter information once and have it available to everyone who has permission and access rights. Student Information Management – All the basic information is placed online in the system and available to all those with access. Online Homework with ability for students to complete homework online - Parent’s and students can access the web and view all the homework required for that class and all classes. These assignments are automatically entered into the grade book when a teacher creates them and are available in the homework section of the automatic progress reports. Discipline - Online Referrals for Teachers with automatic printing on Progress Reports Individualize Learning Plans – The concept of Innovakids is to begin to manage many students with a system that treats each student as an individual learner. This ILP approach presents a way for teachers to directly instruct the class according to the pacing guide and curriculum but allow students to move through the class at their own pace with immediate communication with the parent and teacher. If a student requires a week to pass a lesson the system allows for that. If a student needs to repeat a lesson 3 times before passing the system allows for that. If a student can work ahead of a class the system allows for that.

This section focuses on the use of websites in the classroom. Classroom websites help facilitate the creation of a blended learning environment. Teachers use classroom websites to post assignments, receive homework submissions, administer tests, and post grades and classroom policies. Teachers also use classroom websites as the medium to link to blended learning sites such as external websites, videos, software, graphics, audio feeds, and virtual field trips. In The Web-Enhanced Classroom, Klaus Schmidt discusses four necessary components for successfully enhancing a course via the internet: Administration, Assessment, Content, and Community (Schmidt, 2002). A classroom website is one way to implement these components into a web-enhanced course. The classroom website acts as an extension to the teacher's administration toolkit. Teachers can post links, assignments, grades, and communicate with students and parents all from their classroom website.

View a Comparison of HTML editors

Teacher Resources:

Teachers can incorporate blended learning into their classroom by linking resource sites and external websites to their classroom website. The following is a list of useful links for teachers for blended learning activities:

 * MarcoPolo: Internet Content for the Classroom is a nonprofit consortium of education organizations dedicated to providing standards-based internet content and professional development for K-12 teachers and students. Teachers can access lesson plans, student activities, and website reviews through seven content websites.  MarcoPolo also features a network of over 200,000 registered educators in all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

 * National Science Foundation (NSF) Classroom Resources is a collection of science and mathematics lesson plans, activities, and web resources for classroom teachers, their students, and parents. NSF was created by Congress in 1950 as an independent federal agency "to promote the progress of science; to advance the national health, prosperity, and welfare; to secure the national defense…". Most of these resources come from NSF's online library of resources for science, technology, engineering, and mathematics education. Collaborating partner institutions such as universities, museums, professional organizations, government agencies, research laboratories and publishers create content-rich materials to meet the needs of students and teachers at all levels: K-12, Higher Education and Lifelong Learning.

 * PBS Teacher Source is provided by the nonprofit Public Broadcasting System. PBS Teacher Source provides free lesson plans, activities, and curriculum concepts.  PBS also provides professional development opportunities for teachers and videos.

 * PBS Nova Teaches is also provided through PBS and supplies scientific technology and information activities and lesson plans.

 * Scholastic Teachers is provided by the Scholastic Publishing Company of children's books and media. This site provides resources for online activities, lesson plans, teaching strategies, and free classroom tools.

 * e-Learning Center This page provides links to some resources on blended learning - that is a learning solution created through a mixture of face-to-face and online learning delivered through a mix of media.
 * California EdTech Leadership Network This page provides links to free live online classes offered by teachers, for teachers from Sacramento (California) County Office of Education.


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Blended Learning in K-12/Types of Blended Learning/Course Management Systems

The use of a Course Management System (CMS) can assist a teacher when they are creating a blended learning environment in the K-12 classroom. In addition to using a classroom website to communicate and administer classroom activities (as described in the previous section), a CMS can better assess student work, share course content and help develop a community among the teacher, students and parents.

A CMS enables the administration of blended activities into the classroom through various tools included with the software. For example, a teacher is able to distribute handouts, set assignment deadlines, collect assignments and give quizzes from one location. This frees up time for the teacher. As stated by Schmidt (2002), “A well-developed administrative component allows a teacher to spend more time interacting creatively with students and addressing higher level thinking skills rather than on mundane activities.”

Enhanced communication between the teacher and students is another administrative benefit gained from using a CMS. A teacher is able to post announcements to the entire class or send an individual email. In addition, syllabus information, grading policies and deadlines can be clearly communicated. Communicating between teacher, students, and even parents, can also occur more frequently with the use of a CMS. Using a CMS means that “assignments and lecture notes can be posted in advance, and students can have continual access to them” (Zirke, 2003). A teacher can distribute material to the class ahead of time, as well as archive previous material, allowing the flexibility for students to work at their own pace or refer back to previous content.

Course Management Systems also assist teachers in assessing student learning. “One great advantage of assessing student learning via the Internet is the ability to provide instant feedback to the student” (Schmidt, 2002). Instant feedback can reinforce learning a lesson being taught and gives the teacher an opportunity to reach a student that may have missed a concept. A useful feature of a CMS is the ability for teachers to easily create quizzes. No programming or HTML knowledge is necessary because the CMS provides a quiz function. An added advantage of the quiz function in a CMS is the ability to offer multiple quizzes and tests for the students to use for practice. Schmidt (2002) states, “a teacher can facilitate a random selection of test questions each time a student want to retake a quiz for practice purposes on the same subject matter.”   The CMS collects, grades, and records the score of the quizzes and tests, saving valuable time for a teacher. With a password, each student can access his or her individual grades. A parent could have a password, as well, to monitor the progress of his or her child by going online at any time of the day.

A CMS enables a teacher to implement blended learning activities into their K-12 classroom in a more organized and functional way. Using a CMS for routine classroom administration tasks is an added bonus, providing the teacher with time for enhanced instruction.

Website resources are available for teachers to compare a variety of Course Management Systems. One website, EduTools, gives product information, product comparisons, and student feedback. Although a variety of CMS exist, this section focuses on six main CMS examples (WebCT, Blackboard, Moodle, CCNet, ANGEL, and Desire2Learn).

Desire2Learn
K-12, Higher Ed, Corporations and Health Care Organizations have been using the Desire2Learn Learning Management System (LMS) since 1999 (www.desire2learn.com). The product, the Desire2Learn® Learning Environment, is a web-based suite of teaching and learning tools for course development, delivery and management. Desire2Learn's Learning Environment provides ways to control the environment to match your approach to teaching and learning, and provides tools to help facilitate communication, collaboration and community building. Educators can customize courses by using a variety of multimedia files. Desire2Learn has several tools that are useful to online educators including email, glossaries, competencies, Rubrics, LiveRoom® and the ePortfolio.

Blackboard
"Through a network of state, regional and local districts, Blackboard serves over 1,200 U.S. schools in 46 states" (www.blackboard.com, 2005). Blackboard "provides software solutions that help manage online academic environments. Blackboard's Course & Portal Solutions for example, provides online course management, academic communities and administrative services" (Schmidt, 2002). Teacher Vivian Evans, gives a personal account of Blackboard, stating that "Blackboard has got some good features...It supports synchronous chat and discussion threads in a way that is very clear. Site administration is another strength. You can control who has access to your site. You can also look back at what happened previously by clicking on a past date to see what was discussed" (Evans, 2005).

According to the Blackboard website, "Whether a student is hospital or homebound, a traveling athlete or involved in extra-curricular activities, the Blackboard Learning System allows students to take courses online or supplement face-to-face learning" (2005). This is done through the "Virtual Classroom/Collaboration feature" which offers synchronous chats and office hours. Blackboard also has an "Assignments" feature, allowing students to receive feedback from the teacher after submitting an assignment through Blackboard (www.blackboard.com, 2005).

Moodle
According to the Moodle Website, "Moodle is a course management system (CMS) - a free, Open Source software package designed using sound pedagogical principles, to help educators create effective online learning communities" (2005). Moodle is used in a variety of settings by a variety of institutions, such as universities, schools, companies, and teachers, throughout the world. Specifically, Moodle is used in universities, high schools, primary schools, non-profit organizations, private companies, by independent teachers and parents home schooling their children (Moodle Background, 2005). What makes Moodle truly unique is the price tag; Moodle is completely free to use (www.moodle.com, 2005).

Moodle does not require the installation of any particular software; it can be created, edited, and used solely online. The creation and editing system is user-friendly and seems to have been designed with the novice user in mind. Templates encourage clear organization of assignments and resources, and forums are also simple to create. Likewise, the student user will quickly learn the simple navigation system with little frustration.

Moodle was created by Martin Dougiamas, a former university webmaster and system administrator of the university's WebCT installation. Dougiamas states that he "encountered many frustrations with the WebCT beast and developed an itch that needed scratching - there had to be a better way (no, not Blackboard :-)" (Moodle Background, 2005). In order to do this, Dougiamas believes that "it is crucial...that this software be easy to use - in fact it should be as intuitive as possible" (Moodle Background, 2005).

CCNet
According to the CCNet website, "CCNet is a web-based course management and class communication tool. It provides a powerful teaching and study management solution for students, teachers, and administrative staff. CCNet is extremely user friendly and designed to meet the needs of all types of institutions. It has been used with great success by prominent schools and universities as well as individual teachers and professors since its unveiling in September, 2000."

ANGEL Learning
According to the ANGEL website ANGEL LMS provides a set of teaching and learning features that are open to adaptation. ANGEL's openness allows faculty and information technology professionals to focus on delivering good teaching. It allows the enterprise to control the capabilities it delivers to its users and add the learning content, resources, and technologies that best fit its users' needs. ANGEL Learning was acquired by Blackboard in May, 2009

eChalk
According to the eChalk website, eChalk provides K-12 schools and educational environments with the necessary tools for students, parents and teachers to obtain a thriving academic community.

eChalk facilitates both cooperative and collaborative learning models. A cooperative learning model is used more often in lower education because it is a simpler and more teacher-led style of learning. Students obtain some necessary learning skills, but this learning style mainly serves to prepare students for collaborative learning. Collaborative learning is a higher form of learning that usually occurs in late middle and upper school. The students have much more independence and room to explore in their learning. Collaborative learning helps students learn more than just the required subject material; the students also learn crucial learning tools and how to work independently.

eChalk allows the teachers to alter their class pages according to the learning style of the class. The teacher can lead the students every step of the way by posting many assignments and communicating constantly (this is an example of cooperative learning) or simply posting a subject matter and leaving the students to learn and explore on their own (this is an example of collaborative learning). These two learning styles are available to the students 24x7 because eChalk brings learning outside the classroom and into the homes of the students.

The company was co-founded by Daniel Watts and Torrance Robinson in 1999 in an initiative to bring computers and internet access to schools in New York. However, the project has now spread across the U.S.


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Blended Learning in K-12/Blending online and face to face instructors and learners

Blending online and face to face instructors and learners

As stated in the introduction to this chapter, one of the criticisms of Blended Learning is that the definition lacks specificity. (Oliver and Trigwell, 2005) As a result, many of the characteristics of Blended learning look so similar to one another that it is impossible to tell them apart. The characteristics seem to have different terms that describe the same set of criteria. Such is the case for the blending of online and face to face instructors and learners.

After several rounds of discussion, the contributors of this chapter were unable to elucidate the difference between "Blending online and face to face instructors and learners" from "Blending synchronus and asynchronus learning" and "Online and offline Learning."

The only possible difference that we discussed is that in a Blended Learning environment, the line between instructor and learner might be blurred, so that the instructor is not just the person disseminating knowledge, but rather a member of the learning community, who contributes to the construction of knowledge, and takes away from the course re-imagined understandings of the content. In other words, as one Instructor who utilizes blended learning put it, the teacher should be "the guide on the side, instead of the sage on the stage." (Scagnoli, 2005)


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$${v_o\over v_i}={{sR_2C_2}\over s^2}$$

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W00t!

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Talk:Ruby Programming/Syntax/Operators

bug!
This page is missing navigational links - once the reader arrives here he/she cannot continue.

Do consider "slash-notation" suggesten in the WB:NP - this will prevent problems like this.

--Krischik T 07:01, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

There's no need. The book already has it's navigation. --Derbeth 08:30, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

But you forgot to add that to this page which shows that any manual soulution is inferior to a automatic solution. But then - I only make suggestions. --Krischik T 09:09, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Concatenation?
I am not a Ruby pro but my understanding is that there are at least three ways to concatenate strings: the plus operator; adjacent string literals; and perhaps what I would normall consider the shift operator. Is that right? Why are none of them documented here? --X883 (discuss • contribs) 19:55, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Missing operators
It would be great if the &: operator and . operator are added by someone experienced. --Jakubt (discuss • contribs) 14:57, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Operators that can be overridden
The notes say "The operators ** through !~ can be overridden (defined for new classes, or redefined for existing operations)." If I understand the statement correctly, this also applies to the <=> operator, and the line should read "The operators ** through <=> can be overridden (defined for new classes, or redefined for existing operations)." robtrodes

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Talk:Ruby Programming/Syntax/Control Structures

Bug!
This page too is missing navigational links - once the reader arrives here he/she cannot continue.

Do consider "slash-notation" suggested in the WB:NP - this will prevent problems like this.

--Krischik T 07:05, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

This page is missing most of the content that should be here.

Exceptions?
Exception Handling, begin/end, catch and so on point here, but nothing's here

Items Missing in the Loop Section
The index shows there should be entries on the for loop and for the loop control variables break and redo. I did not see them in this section. 207.170.246.243 (talk) 19:09, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

For... is missing, and much else
Is this by accident or is the content not complete yet?

If not, would it make sense to add stubs for the sections to encourage people to write them? Now, no one knows they're missing unless they're looking specifically for them..


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Talk:Fortran

Naming policy
You might want to consider the WB:NP. You current naming convention is depreciated and has several disadvantages - like it has no navigational links. Also you worthy effort is neiter considered a book nor a section inside a book. See wikistats which implements an exstensive book and section detector.

--Krischik T 07:15, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Fortran 90/95 vs. Fortran 77
I'll be helping developing this wikibook, as I'm currently doing a project in Fortran. However, I will concentrate on Fortran 90/95, and not Fortran 77. Right now they are intertwined with each other, so I will segregate the tutorials for Fortran 77 into a separate section, if there are no objections. --Arthurv 11:49, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Why would a 2006 Fortran book begin by discussing problems with Fortran 77? Just delete all the 77 stuff - its 30 years old. And its already online if anyone wants it -- see
 * Out of print and now online.

I've never looked at a Wiki book before, so there is a lot (everything?) that I don't know about them. Unless all Wiki books have the same purpose, it would help if this book began with what its purpose is, what it will and will not do. If readers don't know the purpose of the book, makes it hard to comment on (that's an argument for knowing the purpose, not for concealing it!).

Rwwww 23:20, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Fortran 77 is still alive and well. --Swift 07:25, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Despite its age F77 is still very commonly used in scientific computing. However, it would be very good idea to make separate wikibook for F77 and F90/95 standards. Even thought they are not very far different, they are different enought to do so. Now this is like making a same textbook for german and dutch... 130.232.104.44 12:22, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I would hardly compare German and Dutch. Perhaps Dutch and Flemish would be more apt. F90/95 is, moreover, (mostly?) backwards compatible with F77. The Compaq Fortran Language Reference Manual designates extensions to the F95 standard with a different colour text. A pretty neat solution in my mind. --Swift 20:32, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * F77 is forward compatible with f90 and not the other way around. 128.220.23.214 01:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Some of the deprecated features of Fortran 77 were removed from the Fortran 90 standard, (e.g. pause) but most compilers maintain backwards compatibility for the convenience of users with legacy code. The biggest fields for the language are computational chemistry and meteorology and I have never seen any new code written in Fortran 77 in the 10 years I've been writing code for weather modeling.  It's not simply not practical to restrict yourself to 6 character variable and subroutine names in a program of any size.  While there are many fine libraries like LAPACK and BLAS still written in 77 there is absolutely no reason to write new code in anything but the newer standards.  GNU Fortran is free, Open64 free, Oracle gives away the old Sun Fortran for free, and they all support at least the 1990 standard and they're all fast.  Teaching anyone to code in 77 is a waste of time.

Fortran 77 should definitely neither be deleted from, nor ignored by this book. Right now I have to learn Fortran 77 to find my way round a (scientific) program, that was written in the late 80's and is to be extended by me. And I'm very thankful for those tutorials that still exist in the web. I suggest not to make seperate books, but different chapters of the different versions. Compare de.wikibooks.org/wiki/Fortran for inspiration. (You'll get the idea, even if you don't understand any German.) -- Macumba (talk) 13:41, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I work in science and there is a lot of existing fortran code around, most that I have dealt with is fortran 77. It is common to need to read an modify this code. However most people have moved from g77 to gfortran compiler, so you could call it fortran90/95 that happens not to use the new features. For it would be most useful to have F90/95 book, with comments about what is new, and examples of old/obsolete features (that should maybe be avoided or removed). 194.36.2.211 (discuss) 16:50, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

Fortran vs. FORTRAN
The current spelling of Fortran does not use all capital letters, so I have changed "FORTRAN" to "Fortran", except when FORTRAN 77 or an earlier version of the language is being referenced.

Somehow, there are still general references to the language using all capitols throughout the book. I guess new editors have reintroduced this style. PropellerPlus (discuss • contribs) 10:48, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Complete overhaul
I think this whole document should be reorganized. The subsections seem kind of arbitrary and no clear order is obvious. For new readers it would be hard to use it in any way. --HerrHartmuth (discuss • contribs) 18:16, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Suggested partitioning
Suggest partitioning the Fortran wikibook into two separate wikibooks: I feel FORTRAN 77 (and earlier versions) and Fortran 90 (and later versions) are sufficiently different that they would be better served by completely separate treatment, whereas versions of Fortran 90 and later are similar enough that they can be covered together (with any differences noted/marked simply and clearly)  —PowerPCG5 (discuss • contribs) 05:12, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
 * 1) A FORTRAN 77 wikibook using fixed-form source layout and covering FORTRAN 66 and FORTRAN 77; and
 * 2) A Fortran wikibook using free-form source layout and covering Fortran 90/95/2003/2008/2018, where any feature that does not exist in all five versions is simply and succinctly marked with ‘F95,’ ‘F03,’ ‘F08,’ and/or ‘F18’ tags (or better yet, specially created icons) to indicate which version of Fortran first supported it; features that began to be deprecated or obsoleted could in contrast be marked by one of those ‘F95’/‘F03’/‘F08’/‘F18’ icons, but with a  ⃠ crossing it out, to indicate with which version that feature began to be deprecated/obsoleted by the relevant ISO/IEC 1539-?:* standard.

 * There is Fortran 77 Tutorial, but that seems more limited in scope. Mbrickn (discuss • contribs) 01:35, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

I don't quite understand this partitioning. What features should be classifies as 77/66? Many old features are still used in modern fortran. If they arent, then they should simply be labeled as obsolescent. Furthermore, fixed source formatting is not a feature that is specific to Fortran 77/66. It's possible to write 2018 code in fixed source style. PropellerPlus (discuss • contribs) 10:39, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Coding style in sample code
There is no consistency in the coding style for the code snippets in this book. This does not set a good example for coding standards of new programmers. For example:
 * The use of all capitals for fortran keywords is useful for textbooks that are printed in black and white, so they can be easily distinguished. But this book has a mixture of upper and lower case. It arguably does not make sense to use upper case because the wiki allows for syntax highlighting that makes visual identification of fortran keywords easy. It can also be a bit misleading for new programmers to think the capitals are required, as they might not yet know that fortran is case insensitive.
 * Indentation.
 * Whitespace between fortran keywords/arrays/functions and parentheses. The convention I like is to use no spacing for array indexing, functions and subroutines. Fortran statement keywords should be visually distinct from functions and arrays so I use a space for those (e.g. write statements are not functions) PropellerPlus (discuss • contribs) 11:10, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Questioning relevance of documenting fortran
I don't think the section documenting fortran should really be included in the section called in-depth fortran ideas. It nit really about the language specifically but rather other software to create documentation. Maybe move it to an appendix? PropellerPlus (discuss • contribs) 14:02, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

Disparaging introductory paragraphs
Much of the introductory text in this book has a vey negative/disparaging attitude towards older versions of Fortran. While this attitude is in some cases waranted, it is ultimatemy unproductive here and completely dissregards the progress that has been made in modern Fortran standards. PropellerPlus (discuss • contribs) 14:10, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

 * You're correct. It should be written from a neutral point of view. Mbrickn (discuss • contribs) 01:33, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Overloading in fortran and beyond
Why is overloading in a section called Fortran and beyond when overloading is a core feature of fortran? In fact, why is this section even called Fortran and Beyond? What does that even mean? Shouldn't it be called something like "Extended Fortran Ecosystem Software" PropellerPlus (discuss • contribs) 14:18, 5 June 2021 (UTC)

 * It should probably be made into it's own section, as you say. Mbrickn (discuss • contribs) 01:31, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Fortran


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User talk:12.217.103.51

--Derbeth 08:34, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

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User talk:67.172.158.98

Please stop adding nonsense to Wikibooks. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you.

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User talk:213.222.41.250

Please stop adding nonsense to Wikibooks. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you.

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User talk:69.118.98.212

Please stop deliberately introducing incorrect information into articles. It is considered vandalism. If you would like to experiment, use the sandbox. Thank you.

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