text:
User talk:Marshman~enwikibooks

Welcome to Wikibooks! Now that your user page is here, you are one of us who suffer dual addiction, both Wikiholic and Wikiworm :). I wish you well in linking Botany to the 'Pedia. Again, Welcome aboard! ..LouI 19:13, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I was contemplating how one could develop study outlines for topics at Wikipedia, and discovered WikiBooks. The idea is more suited to this project. - Marshman 20:47, 4 Sep 2003 (UTC)

A suggestion: You don't need to copy an entire article from the 'pedia to protect your references from future editing. You can simply refer to a specific historic version. Thus Plant cell gets the current page, while Planr cell oldid=1407735 always returns a specific historic version.

There is probably a shorter way (without full URL) to get to the Wikipedia namespace, and I'll ask in the staff lounge. LouI 05:01, 8 Sep 2003 (UTC)
 * Actually, I was not concerned about protecting any particular version on Wikipedia from being edited. I am attempting/intending to improve the Wikipedia entries if I find the deficient, otherwise I welcome each articles improvement with time.  I do intend to bring over material when it is introductory in nature and therefore useful to simply have the text in Wikibook Guide to set the stage for suggested readings of articles. I will either write that material myself, or grab a good start from off of Wikipedia.
 * Seems like I was told there would eventually be a shorter way to get to Wikipedia namespaces, and I have seen "en:" used, but was unsure if that was available yet. - Marshman 08:06, 8 Sep 2003 (UTC)

I want to nominate you to be an admin but can't find the nomination page. --Karl Wick
 * I don't know where it is! Thanks for support. I did get admin at Wikipedia and have not done too much damage over there. 8} - Marsh 17:22, 24 Sep 2003 (UTC)
 * I see it happened, presumably less formal here than at Wikipedia as probably required by the present small crowd at Wikibooks. Anyway, thanks, whomever is/was responsible. Sysop Marsh

Hi Marsh. Thanks for your comments on my talk page. I realize that your intention for the introduction was to just point out the similarities between English and German words. However, I've heard that it's best to also write down the proper article right from the beginning where you introduce a new word. Thomas

- Hi Marshman, you've put the comment to Robbyjo on his user page, not his talk page. I'd move it myself but that wouldn't look right :) Dysprosia 09:13, 25 Oct 2003 (UTC)
 * Thanks it was late at night. He had a blank user page, so I clicked on "Discuss this Page", but did not watch what came up! - Marsh

Moving Botany pages
Marsh, this new naming scheme looks like a bad idea to me. "Biology Botany"? That does not seem any better than Botany. Worse, rather. Did they do it to you or did you consent ? Its a trifling thing but bugs me, I'd like to see if we could undo it. Comments ? --Karl Wick
 * From what I can gether, Botany was selected as an example page. I was not asked. Although Biology_Botany is not too thrilling to me, the rest of the system, say Botany_Introduction_How_to_use seems like a logical approach.  Of course it can all be undone, with a little work. I agree, a discussion should be set up separate from the Staff Lounge, especially if changes are going forward. - Marsh 04:03, 27 Oct 2003 (UTC)

 * Marsh-dogg, who did this act ? I would like to communicate with them. --Karl Wick

 * Marshman! Why not set up a discussion page for the subject. I responded to the initial change, but I was not logged in (found out later) so it is bnot recorded in my contributions list. But should be on the page history? - Marsh 07:41, 27 Oct 2003 (UTC)

 * Why not Biology:Botany, like I've done with Discrete mathematics:whatever ? Dysprosia

 * Actually, I'm not proposing any system; See Staff_lounge for what discussion has taken place to date (not much) - Marsh 08:31, 27 Oct 2003 (UTC)

 * Sorry about before - I missed the SL discussion to the matter. Dysprosia 05:29, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Which has not gone very far by the way — but it is generally pretty quiet over here compared with Wikipedia. No problem, I;m cool 8^) but I was in the process of changing the traditional "tight" form of page names to one more open when you came along almost (a day or two) after me and "reverted". Since these are "books," I'm thinking the look of every line has a bit more impact than is the case for an encyclopedia article, so I've opted for now to go with the open look (hope you do not mind) - Marsh 05:51, 5 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hi Marsh, I've listened to the alphabet recording and I don't think the 'B' and 'E' sound English. However, recording with my $10 microphone, the initial sounds of 'B' and 'P' (which are the same as in English I think) do not come out as clearly as they could be. If I get the chance, I'll make a better recording some time later. Thomas
 * I listened again and the Bay is ok, just a tad towards Bee. The Ay seems more towards an EE (english), but both shifts could be the microphone. It is great you can produce these, so I'm not complaining. Great additions to the text! - Marsh 17:58, 29 Oct 2003 (UTC)

About the main page width. I think it must be a browser issue. What browser are you using ? Theresa knott 22:04, 4 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Hi Marsh, the layout for vocabulary can be done by leaving the first character of a line blank, for example:

das Wort       word der Buchstabe  character

Thomas

 * Shoot. I did read that when I first showed up at Wikipedia. Thanks - Marsh 06:04, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Link format
Marshman, following is a short, tidy format for writing working links into the main Wikipedia: wiki. (That is, if you did not know this already). And I am talking about the format the link is written in, not where this particular link leads .. hope I am not confusing the issue. --Karl Wick
 * Thanks. I see what you are saying. I'll try that format. I originally used En:Wikipedia|wiki and that worked, but then one day stopped working. I'm told Wikipedia:en:wiki|wiki is the correct form.

Pictures
Marshman -- do you take your own pictures ? Where do you get them ? They are beautiful and bring a real level of professional image to the site. --Karl Wick
 * Thanks for the compliment. Yes, I take them myself.  I bought a Nikon Coolpix 950 a few years ago, and have been using it to illustrate reports, websites, etc.  Nice thing about digital, you can just click away without regard to film costs.  I've taken over 7000 pictures in those few years, but have kept only perhaps 1000 or a little less.  It has been a very good camera, but I will probably need a new one pretty soon. - Marsh 02:29, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Wow I am impressed. I'd buy the old camera off of you if you are going to sell it... --Karl Wick

 * I will let you know ! - 24.94.82.245 01:20, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC) - Marsh 01:21, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Marshman,

 * Hello, I hope that you have been well lately.

 * I was just looking at some beautiful botanical photos and remembering your Nikon Coolpix 950. Do you still have it? Still want to sell it? If so, I’ll make you an offer.--Karl Wick 19:51, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Hey Karl. You're back! That camera is starting to get difficult to use. I'm debating whether to get a new one or get it fixed.  You are right, it is a great camera and that model is no longer available (Nikon Coolpix 950).  I think we can both do much better in terms of functionality, but I've not had time to research that. Let me see if I can replace the camera for myself and get that one fixed for a reasonable price.  Then we can talk.  As is, I could not put much value on it to sell although it does still work and I continue to turn out good photos, but I'm having a battery problem (may not have anything to do with the camera) that I need to solve. - marsh 04:21, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Marshman: do you have an image or images that we could use on the main page of the general biology textbook? --Karl Wick
 * Have lots of images. Do you have anything special in muind? - Marsh 18:27, 4 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I didn't think about a picture till just after I put the recipe up. I didn't cook at home last night, was cooking for my grandmother and just used what I had on hand, and it turned out really good.  Next time, I'll bring a camera with me. :~) Gentgeen 06:08, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * Photographing food is a real art; but would certainly enhance any recipe to have a photo of the finished product - Marsh 16:57, 5 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Dear Marshman,

I only learned about the wiki concept recently, and (like everybody around it seems) I think it is great. I have started to contribute to the Botany textbook, mainly on chapter 6, and created missing chapters and updated the content page and TOC. I have done a PhD in molecular plant virology, therefore my interest in chap 6. After general introductions, I focus the text there mostly on plant pathogens, since they are of most interest for those studying botany (and hopelessly ignored in the wikipedia virology and bacteria articles) Please have a look at the book when you have time, and give me feedback on my work. Thank you, and best wishes, Aletta 21:15, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * Wiki concept is great if you like to write or edit. You are certainly welcome to help out here with the Botany text project (add some info to the contributors page when you get a chance) and I like seeing you have a strong background in microbes!.  The concept of this textbook is one of providing some general introductory text for each chapter, then links that are essentially reading assignments to appropriate articles at Wikipedia. I usually spend most of my time working on those Wikipedia articles to insure that they are useful to the textbook as well as to the wikipedia.  However, there is no hard and fast rule about how much information should and should not go into the textbook.  Eventually, we may want to include most of the information at Wikipedia over here as well, although I do not forsee that happening soon. That is to say, I would not import wikipedia articles into the textbook to make this book "more complete".  But put as much original writing into each chapter of the textbook as you want, then adjust the reading assignments accordingly. - Marsh 02:05, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Help reviewing books
Hi Marshman. I saw you downgraded some of the development stages I gave to the chapters of your book. That is quite some brave thing to do, and just in the spirit of a critical review! Of course, as the author you know your work best. Would you help me to review one or another book of your choice in a similar way on the Science bookshelf? You can use the template as explained in Development stages. There is no hurry, do it when you want to browse some other book. Thanks! --Andreas Ipp 21:51, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Can do. I'll go look at some of the other "biological sciences" texts. I got the impression you were either being very generous, or just putting in the "symbols" so that the authors could modify them to what looks more likely a status of each chapter. I do agree that "100%" is not necessarily the same as "done, no more additions anticipated" but really means the user can expect to get something close to full value out of that chapter, even if the author plans to tweek it a lot more. - marsh 04:07, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

German:_Lesson_6:I'm from Germany and I don't understand "Mutti sagt Hallo." Say me, please - what do you want to say with "Mutti sagt Hallo." ?
 * Danke for getting back to me. The brother is trying to say "Mother says (to say) hello". That is, he is visiting from home, and brings greetings from their mom. Can you help clarify or improve that? - marsh

Basic Ecology Contents
Why did you revert my edits without any justification? You are deliberately violating naming policy. Such use of revert function makes me wonder if you really should be a sysop. Taking a look at operation log gives me no clue why you became one. --Derbeth talk 11:29, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Man, where did they find you? I've been here working on Wikibooks for a long long time and I know the rules about policy, the first being that "policy" as you now call your banners is suggestion and therefore cannot be violated. I do not appreciate stupid banners (essentialy a form of vandalism) being placed on the books I am working on and find your attitude more than bit aggressive, violating the cardinal rule at Wikipedia of making personal attacks on other editors. I did expain the revert on the page. - marsh 18:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Call it a personal attack but it occured that you don't use your sysop right for things other than your books cleanup. I can't see if you revert vandals or not, but your part of log shows no vadalised pages you deleted. In fact, you are not doing any administrative tasks. And calling cleanup templates "vandalism" is nothing more than arrogance from you. --Derbeth talk 22:17, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I deleted your vandalising of the pages I watch. And they are vandalism because of where you place them (more so because it appears there really is no such naming policy in place). Sorry I do not fit your definition of what I should be doing here, but then I may have missed the vote where you were elected king. I am a contributor to textbooks, and I will not be subjected to attacks by you. I have plenty of other things to do with my time. Please do not write on my user page again. - marsh 00:52, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Releasing a first PDF edition of Botany?
I have recently proposed that some Wikibooks are ready for a first PDF edition. Botany is a likely candidate. The first edition would contain a prominent link saying "If you wish to edit, correct or contribute to this book please click here". The idea is to use some of the better and more complete books as an example. What do you think? See:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:Staff_lounge#The_management_of_book_publishing_-_a_policy_suggestion

RobinH 16:25, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Happy to consider it, although not sure the Botany t5ext is really far enough along - marsh 18:38, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

German: Level 3
This needs a total remake, it is not even funny. It is very silly and useless to have a whole different sub-section, with all the lessons of level 2, and the only thing which is different is a small, little advance page for each lesson. It needs different, and harder lessons. Isn't that the whole reason for a different sub-section page? We need all the complex grammer and difficult words of German in this level, or put the easier parts of complex German grammer and vocabulary of it here, and make a Level 4 and put the more difficult parts of complex German grammer and vocabulary in there. Derbeth even said we had to do something. And it is time. We need to get a plan together. -- German Men92talk 1:03, 17 Feb 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not real clear on your complaint, but I think you do not like the idea of having a Level 3 in the German textbook. It was an idea for having a more advanced course that built easily on the Level 2—that was the plan. Of course, we could as well just mush together each "advanced" page with the corresponding Level 2 page and by that process create a new or separate Level 3 textbook. And of course, when you say "what it needs" you must back up a minute and realize that while some lessons are more or less complete, most others are just a shell of what could be done. So the obvious response to seeing a deficient subsection page (or any page) is to add to it, not complain about it. And I will not address what I think about your statement "Derbeth even said we had to do something"; is Derbeth a contributor to this textbook? - marsh 19:01, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

No, but he is an admin here, and that is really why I pushed forward with seperate lessons, because he asked me or a main contributorto fix it. -- German Men92talk 21:22, 1 Mar 2006 (UTC)
 * No problem, really. I just have serious reservations about Derbeth. But YOUR ideas are what is important here, so I won't be side-tracked. I'll check in and see how you develop the (is it now five levels?) lessons the way you are going. - marsh 06:06, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Proposal to remove your sysop rights
Marshman

I'm dropping you this note as I note another user has made a request on WB:RFA for your account to lose sysop rights. If you would like to comment on the matter, please do so there. Kind regards, Jguk 17:49, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually, a vote is under way to remove the sysop rights from 10 admins. I think Jguk left you a note because you are the only active editor subject to such a vote, and perhaps because he voted to oppose removing your sysop rights.  I have been leaving notes with all 10 admins concerning the vote.  Even though Jguk has already informed you of the vote, it seemed strange for me to leave you out.  Here is the note I have been leaving:

 * A vote is being held to remove your sysop privileges. The basis for this vote is lack of use of these privileges.  You may want to participate at Requests_for_adminship.  See also the discussion at Staff_lounge. --JMRyan 23:04, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for at least showing that much respect - marsh

 * Marshman, I am definitely against your sys-op rights being taken away. Where is the appropriate place to make that known publicly? Thank you, --Karl Wick 20:27, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Image:Fernsehturm Stuttgart.jpg
I have been using a script User:Kernigh/monobook.js (copied from Commons:MediaWiki:Extra-tabs.js) to examine image uploads. Thus I noticed that you have many untagged images. Most of them indicate the author credit and copyright license very clearly, and at some point someone will tag them GFDL.

However, Image:Fernsehturm Stuttgart.jpg (which you uploaded two years ago at 9 March 2004) claims to be from the "German Wikipedia" but gives no license information. I checked the same filename in de.wikipedia and commons.wikimedia and found nothing. Do you know the license information? If so you could add a copyright tag. Otherwise it might be better to delete the image; it is on the German Grammar page and we could probably replace it with something else. --Kernigh 06:40, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Policy review
Policy is not the most exciting subject at Wikibooks but we do have some major unresolved issues.

The most important issue, in my opinion, is Dispute resolution which starts by declaring that:

"Currently there is no official organized process to resolve disputes between users"

The suggested remedy for this is: Ad hoc administration committee which puts into place the absolute minimum in terms of an enforcement apparatus.

The second most important is No personal attacks where a vote has recommended the policy be enforced but it still languishes as "proposed".

The third policy that is needed and which will prevent edit disputes from getting out of hand is Editing disputes policy.

Other policies that need consideration are at: Policies and guidelines.

Please spare a minute or two to peruse these issues and add a comment and/or a vote. RobinH 12:26, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Template:Classis

 * Is Classis a holding spot/building block for another template? I was going to nominate it for deletion, but I wanted to check with you first as the creator. — MrDolomite | Talk 01:02, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Your De-Adminship
Hello. I would like to inform you that you will have your sysop rights removed here on 20 Apr 2007 due to inactivity. If you would like to discuss the matter, please see WB:RFA. You can re-apply for adminship at a later date if you wish. Thanks. -within focus 13:23, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

I would like to add here that I am not completely convinced that there is a need to deadmin inactive users. Some very convincing arguments have been made in the past to keep admins around, and very weak reasons (admittedly I made the first suggestions) to remove admin status. Others like Karl Wick (mentioned above) certainly have your support.

Regardless, don't take this as an insult in any way, as you are certainly welcome to come back and continue editing Wikibooks at any time. And if you ever want to have the admin tools back (I'm fatalistic as I think the current mood with several active Wikibookians is to strip your admin rights), count on me to be one of your hardcore supporters. You have done nothing wrong except to deal with life and not let this project become an obsession. That, IMHO, is an admirable trait. --Rob Horning 13:55, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Marshman. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Marshman~enwikibooks that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:25, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 05:14, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Marshman~enwikibooks


text:
Wikibooks:Study guides bookshelf

Advanced Placement

 * AP Biology
 * AP Chemistry
 * AP Computer Science
 * AP European History

GCSE
For 14-16 year old pupils

 * GCSE Mathematics
 * GCSE Science
 * GCSE Short Course ICT

HSC

 * Mathematics, Mathematics Extension 1, Mathematics Extension 2
 * Mathematics (General)
 * HSC Geography
 * HSC Information Processing and Technology
 * HSC Physics

Information technology

 * A+
 * AQA Information and Communication Technology
 * LPI Linux Certification
 * Network plus exam cram
 * Network+
 * SCDJWS
 * Weblogs:An Introduction

International Baccalaureate

 * IB Biology
 * IB Chemistry
 * IB Computer Science
 * IB Economics
 * IB European History
 * IB Geography
 * IB Music

NCEA
NCEA is the national examinations sat by Year 11-13 students in New Zealand.

 * Level 1 Science

Other

 * AVCE Information and Communication Technology
 * How To Become A Good Student
 * The Natural Step for Communities Study Circle Guide
 * College Guide

Professional Certifications

 * CCNA Certification
 * General Securities Representative Exam
 * Microsoft Certified Professional Developer
 * .NET Development Foundation
 * Microsoft Certified IT Professional

US College and Graduate Admissions

 * ACT
 * SAT Study Guide
 * GRE
 * LSAT Prep Guide [[Image:50%.svg]]
 * Past LSAT Explained [[Image:50%.svg]]

VCE (Victorian Certificate of Education)

 * VCE Chemistry

External Sources

 * On Marquez's One Hundred Years of Solitude

Ripiano Guide allo studio

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Wikibooks:Study guides bookshelf


text:
Talk:Discrete Mathematics/Functions and relations

Lots of material there, maybe enough for several "modules". Would it make sense to divide it up ? -- Karl Wick

I'd be against the idea, in my opinion. If someone's trying to study the material, it'd be a great deal more difficult jumping back and forth through linking to other modules. Anyway, this module's almost done, just going to cover Hasse diagrams and some questions/answers and I'm done with this bit, I think. Dysprosia 10:20, 5 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Confusion about Cartesian product definition of Function
I was reading the Other function notation section of this module and was a bit confused by the wording of the last sentence:

So using set notation, a function can be expressed as the Cartesian product of its domain and range.

Shouldn't that read a function can be expressed **as a subset of** the Cartesian product of its domain and range.? Otherwise, the function would be defined as F={(1,1),(1,4),(1,9),(2,1),(2,4),(2,9),(3,1),(3,4),(3,9)}.

Or perhaps my understanding of a Cartesian product is incorrect. Just wanted some clarification. Thank you.
 * This confuses me too. Tim J Tylor (talk) 11:06, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I think there is a short coming in the discussions of functions nothing has been mentioned one to one function or generally the types of functions

OR or XOR in trichotomy
I just added an example in the Trichotomy section but I'd like to know if the or we have is a strict OR (XOR) or not. If it is then my example is incorrect (since sometimes both aRb and bRa hold).

Thanks for your help :)

how can we find the union,intersection,complement, difference of two sets named R & S?

New Introduction and other fixes
Hi, I've taken the liberty to add an introduction and some other (less major) fixes. I'd like to know what everyone thinks. --Brian C. Wells (discuss • contribs) 05:37, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Weird Approvals of Property Changes
I just undid a change that removed "Transitive" as one of the properties of equality. Equality is transitive: a = b and b = c implies a = c. In fact, the transitive property is one of the three necessary properties of an equivalence relation, of which equality is the classic example.

I have also seen other examples changed to false answers, but what bothers me more than these erroneous edits by random IPs is that they are being approved by Wikibookians with the rights to do so. I'm fairly new here, so I don't know what Wikibookians' common problems are, but what's going on here? Are they just too busy to make a detailed review? Does nobody care what's right and wrong here? Or is there something else I'm missing? Thanks in advance. --Brian C. Wells (discuss • contribs) 09:07, 5 June 2012 (UTC)


text:
Latin

This is an elementary Latin course accompanied with a detailed grammar based upon Kennedy's Public School Latin Grammar designed to introduce one to the world of. A basic understanding of would be helpful; however, it is not required. Basic definitions of terms will be explained in Lessons 1 and 2, and later elaborated as needed.

For detailed explanations and examples of English grammatical terms, please consult the English Grammar textbook. However, Latin grammar is quite different from that of English, and thus it requires different grammatical terms to explain the concepts. These will be taught as needed.

Preface

This book will attempt to teach the reader about Latin from the ground up. Please read the Introduction to the origins and structure of Latin carefully, as it introduces the concept of a stem. As is typical in many other languages, the infinitive stem (present tense, active voice) is used for conjugating verbs. [The introduction of additional information in parentheses is done simply to avoid confusing a student who has already had exposure to Latin.]

Advice
Parts of this book may have been edited by people who do not speak English as their first language. All Wikibooks are written in the particular English dialect of the writer, which may not be standard usage. If you see something particularly unclear, please feel free to correct it, but please alter this article in a constructive manner.

If something doesn't make sense to you, delete or preferably fix it if you are skilled enough; otherwise, try to emphasize that text marking it with some keyword, e.g., "grade 12 [grade] American [system] revert?" reporting that thing in the Talk page of the book. The "revert" keyword allows your editors to know that you are not a skilled editor but that you are just trying to learn, and you are confused. Your changes are not permanent.

In any case, please, edit this book responsibly.
 * As this is a textbook, readers will want denotational indication of macrons. If you do not know how to do this in HTML, please refer to on the topic.

 * Nouns should be given in the nominative and genitive singular following the standard practice of Latin dictionaries. If it is necessary to indicate the case of the declension then the abbreviations "nom." and "gen." may be used. Different pages may use their own layout rules, but they should be left-justified and clear to the student.

 * Check with other commercial textbooks and study guides to see if what you are doing is factually accurate and pedagogically sound. Wikibooks trusts you to make that judgment on your own, but this is a book - not an article. A person who is either bold or rash might make an error or mistake in layout or explanation that will take a long time to find and correct, so, please, be very careful in what you do.

Introduction to the origins and structure of Latin

 * 1) /How to study a language on the Internet and in your head/
 * 2) /Special consideration: How to use a Wikibook when progress may mean inaccuracy/
 * 3) Grammatical Introduction to Latin The origin and structure of Latin
 * 4) Basic Grammar Grammatical introduction.

Chapter 1: Basic Sentences

 * 1) The Nominative Case  Create basic Latin sentences, with adjectives and the verb "to be"
 * 2) Adjectives  A short introduction to adjectives
 * 3) Present indicative active construct An introduction to verbs, and the present tense of regular verbs.
 * 4) Adverbs & Prepositions More on adjectives, and an overview of adverbs and prepositions.
 * 5) The Accusative Case  Learn to create sentences with transitive verbs.
 * 6) Pronouns Summary of Pronouns
 * 7) Chapter 1 Verse

Chapter 2: Complex Sentences

 * 1) The Imperfect Tense The imperfect tense, working in the past.
 * 2) The Genitive and Dative Cases  Indicate indirect objects and possession.
 * 3) The Future Tense Verbs in the Future
 * 4) The Ablative and Vocative Case  Indicate an ablative construct / directly address someone
 * 5) The 3rd, 4th and 5th declensions All remaining categories of nouns
 * 6) Irregular Verbs & Revision Review of all five declensions and the conjugation of present imperfect indicative active verbs.
 * 7) Translation Exercise Translate a passage.
 * 8) Imperfect and Future indicative active constructs
 * 9) Chapter 2 Verse

Chapter 3: Advanced Sentences

 * 1) Imperatives Ordering or Telling People What to Do.
 * 2) Active vs. Passive Verbs
 * 3) Indicative Passive Verbs  Present, imperfect, and future passives.
 * 4) Principal Parts Principal verb parts and verb conjugation.
 * 5) The Perfect Indicative Tense The uses and formation of the perfect indicative tense.
 * 6) The Perfect Indicative Passive Verbs  Use the perfect with the passives.
 * 7) Future and Past Perfect Indicative Tenses
 * 8) Ablative Absolute and Accusative Infinitive Constructions
 * 9) Chapter 3 Verse

Chapter 4: The Subjunctive Mood and Complex Sentences

 * 1) The Subjunctive Mood  Subjunctive vs. Indicative moods, conjugate the Subjunctive present.
 * 2) The Uses of the Subjunctive
 * 3) The Subjunctive Imperfect  Conjugation and uses of the imperfect subjunctive.
 * 4) The Subjunctive Passive Verbs  Conjugate the present and imperfect subjunctives.
 * 5) The Subjunctive Perfects The perfect endings for the Subjunctive.
 * 6) The Subjunctive Perfect Passive Verbs  Perfect auxiliary verbs for the subjunctive passives.
 * 7) The Gerund and Participles Verbal Nouns.
 * 8) Conditional Clauses Conditional sentences in the indicative and subjunctive mood
 * 9) Revision Review of all five declensions and the conjugation of the active subjunctive verbs.
 * 10) Idioms An overview of idiomatic phrases used in Latin.
 * 11) Translation Translate a passage from the Vulgate Bible.
 * 12) Chapter 4 Verse
 * 13) Verse from the Gospels

Chapter 5: Review

 * 1) Revision Review of all five noun and adjective declensions.
 * 2) Revision Revise work on all verb conjugations and learned forms.
 * 3) Translation Translate a passage from Catullus.
 * 4) Exercises Review of subjunctive forms.
 * 5) Exercises Review of passive forms.
 * 6) Translation
 * 7) Revision  Ideas and memory tools for language patterns in conjugation and declining.
 * 8) Chapter 5 Verse
 * 9) Poem about Latin

Spoken Latin
This is a test chapter to teach those who wish to learn Latin which they can use in their daily lives.
 * 1) Spoken Latin Wikibook

Appendices

 * Verb Synopsis
 * List of Declensions
 * Phonology of Latin (pronunciation)
 * Accents and Scansion
 * Morphology of Latin
 * Ecclesiastical & Medieval Latin
 * Latin Grammatical Definitions
 * Latin Dictionary
 * Latin Mottos and Phrases (used nowadays)
 * Latin Abbreviations (used nowadays)
 * /Common phrases/
 * Latin Resources
 * Library of Graded Latin Texts for Translation
 * Spoken Latin
 * /Words and their Flexion/
 * /Prefixes and Suffixes/
 * /Stylistic Features of Latin Verse and Prose/

About the Book

 * 1) Authors

Please leave ideas for additional chapters on the talk page.

title: Latin


text:
Latin/Lesson 1

=What is Latin?= Parts of this introduction were taken from The Latin Language on the Wikipedia.

Latin was the language originally spoken in the region around the city of Rome called Latium. It gained great importance as the formal language of the Roman Empire.

All Romance languages — including Italian, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, and others — descend from a Latin parent, and many words in English and other languages today are based on Latin roots. Moreover, Latin was a lingua franca, the learned language for scientific and political affairs in Europe, for more than one and a half thousand years, being eventually replaced by French in the 18th century and English by the middle of the 20th. Latin remains the formal language of the Roman Catholic Church to this day and is the official language of the Vatican.

Romance languages are not derived from Classical Latin, a literary language for writing and oration, but rather from Vulgar Latin, the language spoken by the common people, or  vulgus,  of Rome. Classical Latin and Vulgar Latin (Romance) differ (for example) in that Romance had distinctive stress whereas Classical had distinctive length of vowels. In Italian and Sardo logudorese, there is distinctive length of consonants and stress, in Spanish only distinctive stress, and in French even stress is no longer distinctive. Stress refers to the emphasis of pronunciation on syllabic units. Most English nouns not derived from other parts of speech have an emphasis on the first syllable. Foreign loan words in English sometimes retain their original stress, which may be on the second or third syllable, though assimilation into English will usually result in a vowel shift towards emphasis on the first syllable.

Another major distinction between Classical and Romance is that modern Romance languages, excluding Romanian, have lost their case endings (suffixes at the end of the word used in place of prepositions) in most words (some pronouns being exceptions). Romanian is still equipped with several cases though some, notably the ablative, are no longer represented.

Here are some current English words which are Latin derivativesː

 * Video is the Latin verb "I see" which in English is a noun referring to a recording and playback device.
 * Audio is the Latin verb "I hear" which in English is a noun referring to a sound wave.
 * Victoria is the Latin noun "victory" which in English is a proper noun and a woman's name.
 * Carmen is the Latin noun "song" which in English is a proper noun and a woman's name.

=Introduction to the Latin Language=

Simple and Compound Words
In Latin, words are either:
 *  simple  (words that consist of only one part). For example:

 *  compound  (words that consist of more than one part, for example, a root word combined with a prefix). For example:

Word Parts
Inflected words (i.e., words having ending- or spelling-changes according to their grammatical functions in the sentence) have a stem and a root.

The Stem

The stem is the part of the word to which various suffixes are added. The final suffix determines either the role of the word in the sentence (for example, when a Roman slave wished to address his dominus (master), he used the vocative form domine -- equivalent to "O master" in English) or the person/subject involved in the action (for example, "I dominate" may be expressed as "domin-or", and "they dominate" as "domin-antur"). In these cases, domin- is the stem and -us, -e, -or and -antur are suffixes. The addition of such suffixes is called inflection. This is discussed further in the Summary.

The Root

The root is the part of the word that carries the essential meaning. For example the stem of agitō (I drive onward) is agit-, whose root is ag (do, drive), which is in common to words of similar meaning: agō (I do, drive), agmen (that which is driven, such as a flock), etc. Notice the essential difference between a root and a stem. To the root "ag" has been added a suffix "(i)tō-" which denotes frequency of action (so "agit-" means to do or drive more than once, hence "agit-ō", I agitate, I keep (something) moving, I urge, I impel).

In contrast, English uses word order more than inflection to determine the function of a word within a sentence. English also uses words like pronouns (I, she, etc.) and prepositions (to, at, etc.) where Latin generally prefers inflexions. Thus "dom-ī" (noun -- "at home"), "ag-unt" (verb -- "they do/drive").

Primitives

Primitives occur when both the stem and the root are the same. For example, in the word agere (to do, drive) both the stem and the root are the same: "ag-".

Derivatives

Derivatives occur when the root or stem is modified. For example, the stem flamm- from the noun flamma has the root "flag" ("blaze"), "nōscō" (I know) from the verb "nōscere" has the root "gnō-" ("know").

Suffixes

Latin attaches suffixes ("endings") to stems to turn them into words (most stems and roots cannot be used in sentences without an ending). This inflection is essential to forming Latin sentences. The various suffixes and their translations will be learned in the later lessons.

=Types of Words used in Latin=

Nouns
A noun (Latin: nōmen) is "something perceived or conceived by the mind."

There are two kinds of nouns: Substantives and Pronouns.

1. Substantive (nōmen substantīvum) is a name simply denoting something perceived or conceived: psittacus - the parrot, nix - the snow, virtus - virtue.

2. Pronoun (prōnōmen) is a word used in place of a substantivum, usually when the substantivum is already known: ea - she, ille - that man

Nouns have changing endings on the stem (known as declension) and three incidents: number, gender and case. Number concerns whether the thing referred to is singular or plural (and the ending shows this); gender classifies a substantive as masculine, feminine or neuter (this determines how the endings of adjectives and pronouns behave) and case (where the ending must show how the noun fits in to the sentence). Adjectives and Pronouns must agree in all incidents when they refer to a substantive.

Verbs
Verbs (verba) express an action or a state of being, e.g., agō (I do), dīxit (he said), venīs (you come). Conjugation is the term for adding inflections to verb stems to indicate person (first, second or third), number (singular or plural), tense (present, future, imperfect, perfect, pluperfect or future perfect), voice (active or passive), and mood (indicative, subjunctive or imperative).

A verb can be either finite or infinite:

1. Finite verbs (verba finīta) are inflected and have a subject, e.g., I run, you run, he runs, they drive, the computer is turned on.

2. The infinite verbs (verba infinīta) are not inflected and have no subject, e.g. to run, to drive, to turn on, to have drawn. Participles, which are inflected as substantives rather than as verbs, may also be considered infinite, e.g., the running boy.

Modifiers
1. Adjectives (adiectīva) are used to describe nouns. They indicate a quality perceived or conceived as inherent in, or attributed to, something denoted. E.g., vir magnus (the great man), puella pulchra (the fair girl)

2. Adverbs (adverbia) are similar to adjectives, except that they are used to qualify verbs, adjectives or other adverbs, rather than nouns. In practice, they restrict the meaning of the verb or adjective by specifying how or how much. E.g., currō celeriter (I run quickly), pugnat fortiter (he fights bravely), vērē iūcundus est (he's really nice), incrēdibile callida est (she's incredibly clever).

Other
Particles are uninflected words that provide extra meaning.

1. Prepositions (praepositiōnēs) are little words which tell you how one word is behaving in relation to another word ("the duck was near the pond", "she went towards the wood"). In Latin, the noun that follows a preposition takes a particular ending (called a "case"), depending on the nature of the relationship, or on the nature of the preposition itself. E.g., ad (by), in (in), sub (under). What all this means is that a preposition is a sort of adverb, telling you how something is done. For example, "you go" is a simple statement, but "you go in" suggests that you don't just "go", you go so as to enter something, and so you need a noun for the "something". In English, we might say "you go into the house". In Latin, this would be: "in domum inīs". Notice the form "in domum", which means "into" the house -- you're going into it, you're not yet exactly inside it (the ending -um of "domum" is called "accusative"). When you are inside the house, what you do is "in" the house, which is "in domō" (the ending -ō of "domō" is called "ablative").

2. Conjunctions (coniunctiōnēs) join together clauses and sentences. E.g., et (and), atque (as well as), sed (but).

3. Interjections (interiectiōnēs) are exclamations used to express feeling or to gain attention. E.g., ō! (oh!), ēheu! (alas!), ecce! (behold!).

Articles
Latin has no definite article or indefinite article, respectively "the" and "a/an". When translating Latin into English the appropriate article must be added.

=Summary=

=Exercises=

title: Latin/Lesson 1


text:
Latin/Lesson 2

Spelling and Pronunciation
The Latin alphabet, on which the English alphabet is based, has mostly the same letters as the English alphabet, except that it has no <k> or <w>, and that in its original form, it lacked <j>, which only some modern texts use, and <u>. Many European languages use the Latin alphabet as the basis for their own alphabet.

Latin pronunciation has varied somewhat over the course of its long history, and there are some differences between Old Latin, spoken in the Roman Republic, Classical Latin, spoken in the Roman Empire, Medieval Latin, spoken in the Middle Ages, and Ecclesiastical Latin, spoken in the Catholic Church. This text focuses on the pronunciation of Classical Latin.

Note that Latin, as written by the Romans, did not have <j>, <k>, <u>, <w>, or macrons over vowels (the lines indicating that vowels are long), although they did sometimes mark long vowels with apices (e.g. <ó> for /oː/); macrons are used today as pronunciation guides and do not necessarily need to be written. /w/, /ʊ/, and /uː/ were all represented with <v>. Modern texts often use <v> for /w/, <u> for /ʊ/, and <ū> for /uː/. In some modern texts (this Wikibook not included), <j> is used for /j/.

Declension Tables
The following tables will be both referenced and explained in all of the following sections, and hence are placed here.

Note that nouns in the 3rd declension nominative can have any ending, hence why none is given in bold.

Grammar Part 1: Nouns and Their Role in Sentences
Nouns in Latin are inflected, which means that endings (also known as suffixes or suffices) are appended to the end of the stem to denote these things:
 * 1) Number (whether the noun is singular or plural)
 * Case of the noun (role of the noun in the sentence)
 * Gender (the gender of the word - one of masculine, feminine, or neuter)

Most nouns in English can be modified to indicate number (cat versus cats), and many pronouns can be modified to indicate case (who versus whose) or gender (he versus she, his versus hers). Case is especially important in Latin as meaning cannot be determined by word order as it can be in English, but purely by word endings, or "inflection". Indeed, the words in a Latin sentence can appear in almost any order with little change in meaning. Two sentences with the word orders "Sam ate the orange" and "The orange ate Sam" could potentially mean the same thing in Latin, though the spellings of "orange" and "Sam" would have to change slightly to denote which was the subject (the one eating) and which was the object (the one being eaten).

It is important to note here that although the genders of many words make sense (for example, "puella", meaning a girl, is feminine) many are simply assigned and hold no real meaning. Luckily, as you will find, the gender can often be determined by the spelling of the word (words ending in "us" are almost always masculine, and words ending in "a" are almost always feminine). For many words, however, you will simply have to memorize their gender.

Adjectives themselves must match the number, case, and gender of the noun (be it a substantive or a pronoun) they modify. If a noun is nominative singular feminine (see case table below), then the adjective describing it must also be nominative singular feminine. If the noun is accusative plural masculine, then the adjective must be accusative plural masculine. This will be expanded on in the Adjectives section below. The advantage of this system is that adjectives do not need to be adjacent to their respective nouns, as one would be able to tell which noun they modify by which noun they appear to agree with.

Declension
All substantives are part of one of 5 categories, called declensions. A substantive is a stem, modified by adding a declension suffix. Each declension has a set of standard suffixes that indicate case and number. Usually gender is indicated by the suffix, although there are many exceptions. Therefore, you must memorize the gender of every substantive you learn.

By familiarizing yourself with the above tables, you could deduce that originally the suffix indicating number, case, and gender was the same for every noun. However, as the language developed, nouns with a common stem formed declensions and sounds changed. Similar processes happen continually over time, even today.

The above tables allow you to familiarize yourself with the existence of each declension, though by no means are you expected to memorize it now. Nonetheless, you will have to memorize it as you are formally introduced to individual cases and declensions in future lessons. Because of its introductory purpose, it is considerably simplified and incomplete, and therefore should not be used as a reference in the future.

Adjectives are also classed into declensions which must match the declension of the noun they describe:
 * 1) 1st/2nd declension adjectives...
 * 2) ...Use 1st declension suffixes from the substantive declension table when describing feminine nouns.
 * 3) ...Use 2nd declension masculine suffixes from the above table when describing masculine nouns.
 * 4) ...Use 2nd declension neuter suffixes (not found in the above table) when describing neuter nouns.
 * 5) 3rd declension adjectives behave as 'i' stem substantives unless specified. An 'i' stem substantive is one where the stem word ends in the letter 'i.'   Masculine and Feminine suffixes (which are the same) will be used if describing masculine and feminine nouns, and Neuter suffixes will be used when describing neuter nouns.

Pronouns are not part of any declension, as they are all irregular, and simply have to be memorized.

Case
Cases (Latin: casus) determine the role of the noun in the sentence in relation to other parts of the sentence.

There are six cases, Nominative, Genitive, Dative, Accusative, Ablative, and Vocative. Vocative case (Lesson 3), can be considered a sort of miniature case, generally not being accepted as a true one. Additionally, some nouns have a vocative case, which will be covered later. As nominative and accusative are the most basic, these will be taught first (the rest will be covered in later lessons).

Gender
All substantives, including inanimate objects, have a particular gender (genera), which is either masculine, feminine, or neuter.

For example, Vir, "a man," is masculine. Marītus, "a husband," is also masculine. Puella, "a girl," is feminine. Māter, "a mother," is feminine. Even inanimate objects are assigned gender, including all the moons, stars, trees, tools, and so forth. Logic will give you little help in determining what the genders of inanimate objects are, and with many nouns memorization is required. Luckily, for many nouns, the spelling of the word indicates the gender.

Certain rules may be utilized to determine the gender of an inanimate substantive. Declension is a good indication of gender, especially for 1st and 2nd declension substantives. 1st declension substantives (substantives with an -a suffix) are usually feminine and second declension nouns (substantives with an -us suffix) are usually masculine or neuter. There are a few exceptions, and they will have to be learned. 3rd declension nouns can be either masculine, feminine or neuter (thus the gender will often have to be memorized). 4th declension nouns are usually masculine, sometimes neuter while 5th declension nouns are usually feminine.

Nouns undeclined, words which are not substantives but used as such, sentences used as substantives and the products of trees are generally neuter.

1st/2nd declension adjectives alternate the set of endings depending on the gender of the noun it describes (see the next section below). If the adjective describes a feminine noun, the adjective must use 1st declension endings, if the adjective describes a masculine noun, the adjective must use 2nd declension masculine endings, if the adjective describes a neuter noun, the adjective must use 2nd declension neuter endings.

3rd declension adjectives use the same set of endings for masculine and feminine nouns. However, a slightly different set of endings are used when describing neuter nouns.

Adjectives
As stated above, adjectives must match the gender, number, and case of the noun (be the noun a substantive, or a pronoun) they modify. Similar to the "Sam ate the orange" example above, if the adjective uses the wrong declension it could change the meaning of the sentence. For example, "The girl loves big trees," versus "the big girl loves trees" have different meanings. There are many occasions where logic cannot be used to determine the gender of inanimate objects, as genders are generally arbitrary when the noun has no literal gender. Furthermore, the declension of the noun, often determined by the spelling, can in turn be used to determine the gender, especially for the 1st and 2nd. However, this is never the case for the third declension, as the declension itself is not primarily assigned to any gender and the spelling of the nominative ("default") stem is random, leaving you with no hints.

A noun and its adjective must also be in the same case. Otherwise, it is impossible to tell which nouns pair up to their respective adjectives in a sentence, as the words in a Latin sentence can appear in any order. See the examples below.

Recapitulation

 * Declensions are used to categorize nouns in groups. There are 5 declensions total.
 * Each of the five declensions has a distinct set of endings which are appended to nouns of that declension.
 * The endings indicate the case and number when appended to the stem of a noun.
 * A substantive may use only the endings of the declension of which it is a part.
 * Each substantive has a predefined gender which almost never changes and is separate from the suffix.
 * Adjectives are a part of the 1st/2nd declension and 3rd declension.
 * Adjectives use the gender of the noun that they modify.

Therefore:
 * An adjective of the 1st/2nd declension uses 1st declension endings when describing a feminine noun, a 2nd declension masculine ending when describing a masculine noun, and 2nd declension neuter when describing a neuter noun.
 * An adjective of the 3rd declension uses the same set of endings when describing masculine and feminine nouns and another set of endings when describing neuter nouns. (Actually, there are 3-termination, 2-termination, and 1-termination 3rd declension adjectives. If the adjective is 3-termination, e.g., acer (f. sing.), acris (m. sing.), acer (n. sing.), acres (f. pl.), acres (m. pl.), or acria (n. pl.), then use the appropriate ending; if the adjective is 2-termination, then one termination will be masculine/feminine and the other neuter; if the adjective is 1-termination, the common form is used.)

Before you proceed to the next lesson, complete the exercises below so you will be able to apply this knowledge to Latin.

title: Latin/Lesson 2


text:
User talk:211.28.95.17

"from Wikipedia. " Where? A link to the actual article is needed. --mav

Hey Dan, this thing is beautiful !! A real work of art. I just want to make sure, all of this material is original to you, or is from a public domain document, right ? If we ever have someone copy in stuff from a copyrighted source it would be a legal liability. Keep up the great work man, my sister's eyes lit up when I told her someone had started a Latin textbook on the site. -- Karl Wick

title: User talk:211.28.95.17


text:
Latin/Lesson 1-Nominative

The Nominative Case
The Nominative case refers to the subject of a sentence. For example:

"The girl is pretty"

"The girl" is the subject of this sentence. In its simplest form a sentence will have a subject stated as a noun and will give some further information about the subject. The second part of this sentence tells the reader that the girl is pretty. This is called predicating the noun. This sentence consists of a subject and a predicate. As you know from English, an adjective is a word that denotes some quality, which in this sentence is attractiveness. The noun and adjective are joined together by the word "is", which is called the copula. Note that the copula simply connects the words and gives almost no information about the subject.

The sentence in Latin has the same grammatical elementsː

"puella est pulchra"

The noun is followed by the predicate. The only difference is the absence of an article which has to be supplied by the translator. Puella can be translated as "girl", "the girl", or "a girl". Can you tell which word is the copula?

Translate the followingː

 * Rōma est fāma
 * Rōma est magna
 * Rōma est in Italia

Which region of Europe was the Roman historian Tacitus referring to as Caledonia in his book Agricola, which records the military campaigns of his father-in-law?

Translate the followingː

 * Italia est in Eurōpa
 * Germānia est in Eurōpa
 * Britannia est in Eurōpa

Note the conjunction given in the Vocabulary, and translate the followingː

 * Rōma est fāma et magna
 * Germānia est magna et Britannia est fāma
 * Germānia et Britannia sunt in Eurōpa

Give the meaning of the complete word on this inscription fragment from Roman Britainː

Vocabulary
Key to Vocabulary:

 * m. = masculine
 * f. = feminine
 * n. = neuter

 * Latin nouns have gender and are formed into five groups of declension. Feminine nouns ending in "-a" in the Nominative Singular and "-ae" in the Genitive Singular are of the 1st declension. Most Latin names for countries and cities are 1st declension feminine nouns, so they end with "-a" in the Nominative Singular.

 * sg. = singular
 * pl. = plural

Overview of Adjectives
An adjective is any word that qualifies a noun. For example:

Adjectives in Latin
Adjectives must agree with the nouns they describe in gender, number, and case.

 * Adjectives are made to agree with first and second declension nouns by using the -a, -us, -um (feminine, masculine, and neuter) suffixes.

 * Third declension adjectives are given with the nominative and genitive singular. This, however, is only true for third declension adjectives of one termination. Most third declension adjectives do not have separate masculine and feminine forms. (Neuter adjectives follow the third declension neuter pattern.)

These words will look like the adjective antiquus (old, ancient):
 * antiquus (masculine), antiqua (feminine), antiquum (neuter).

Third declension adjectives typically look more like ferox, ferocis (wild, bold). This is because the third declension has no stem assigned to the nominative singular.

Adjectives often come after the word they describe. Since word order is not central to the meaning of a Latin sentence the adjective may appear anywhere in the sentence.

In the following examples the -us is masculine (m.), -a is feminine (f.) and -um is neuter (n.). So magnus is masculine, magna is feminine, and magnum is neuter.

Basic verbs
Verbs in Latin work quite differently than those in English. Study the following table then view the examples below.

Personal Endings
Archaic

Latin was spoken and written in Europe for over two thousand years and since all languages change gradually this sometimes makes it difficult for beginners to see patterns of change. English has also had a long development that is now divided into three periods called Old English, Middle English and Modern English. Compare the following English verbsː

 * grindan (OE), grinde (ME), grind (Modern English verb)
 * climban (OE), climbe (ME), climb (Modern English verb)

The contraction of the archaic "laborao" to "laboro" would have undergone the same gradual process. The archaic "amao" (I love) eventually became "amo". If you look at the Vocabulary you will see that "amat" and "amant" retain the original letter "a" of the stem.

Example 1

 * Notes
 * The adjective magnus -a -um must agree with templum in gender, number, and case, so the correct form is magnum (neuter nominative singular).
 * Note templum magnus est is incorrect because magn-us does not agree with templ-um.

Example 2
Notes: In the same way, the adjective pulcher -ra -rum must agree with puella in gender, number, and case, so the correct form is pulchra (agreement with the feminine nominative singular noun of the first declension).

Example 4
Notes: The adjective magnus -a -um in this case must agree with lūdī in gender, number, and case, so the correct form is magnī (masculine nominative plural).

Third Declension Nouns and Adjectives
Third declension nouns and adjectives follow a different pattern. The nominative singular stem is not defined, and as such, any letter (or letters) can serve as a third declension stem. For example, Māter (mother) is a third declension noun in the nominative case. When pluralized, it becomes Mātrēs. "-ēs" is attached to the end of a third declension noun to pluralize it, as opposed to changing the ending completely, because there is no uniform way to do so.

You may have also noticed that the "e" in "Māter" was dropped when pluralized. This often happens when a stem is attached to a third declension noun of similar spelling (example, "Pater" (father) becomes "Patrēs")

Examples:

Third declension nouns are listed with the nominative case and the genitive case to provide the main stem. For example:

All other types of nouns are also generally listed with the genitive

Adjectives with a nominative ending in -is and the same stem in the nominative and in the other cases (eg. fortis) end in -e in the neuter and -ia in the neuter plural.

For example:
 * dies difficilis = the difficult day
 * proelium difficile = the difficult battle
 * proelia difficilia = the difficult battles

title: Latin/Lesson 1-Nominative


text:
Talk:Latin

Untitled
It is always SO exciting to see people working on a project. This work will be the basis of many people learning about this subject ... We leave behind a legacy with every bit of work. Thank you, welcome, and good luck with your efforts. Any questions ask me or one of the oldtimers .. --Karl Wick

Introduction Completed
After going over things many, many times, I think I have completed the Lesson 1 and Lesson 2 pages (which are both counted now by me as 'Introduction').

I have merged the nominative and accusative lessons in one, because I think it is important to learn both cases at the same time, and I think it offers a better introduction to the meaning of the the suffixes, and it allows students to construct real sentences not just 'he is good' etc. at the very beginning.

Also, I might just show students all the 5 cases at the very beginning. I don't think it will overwhelm them because what we are doing is starting from the two basic cases (nominative and accusative) and gradually building up to all 6 and at the end touch on locative.

Also, who is in favour of using instead of 'present, future, imperfect and perfect, future perfect, pluperfect' rather Present Imperfect, Future Imperfect, Past Imperfect, Present Perfect, Future Perfect, Past Perfect.

And from there students can use the planned 'Advance Latin Course', to be used for later years. It is to be a course for students who know a little latin and want to build their knowledge. Anyway, it will start from ground zero, and will assume the student knows nothing, but the student must be intelligent, and very dedicated. It will go through all aspects of the language, and won't offer exercises, because the student is expected to simply to take notes.

Some thoughts...
I like the ideas put forth so far, and would love to help out on this project. I'll also touch on the ideas you presented with my own - we agree on a good deal of the points:

As we learn different parts of speech and noun constructions at different times in our natural English educations, I think a similarly-presented Latin lesson plan is appropriate. What I'm suggesting is to mention all the cases and their most basic usages (with respect to English constructions) up front: Nominative is for subjects, Accusative is for direct object, etc.

Then, start with basic sentences involving the Present Imperfect of esse, subjects, predicate nominatives, and prepositions taken with the Ablative - Pueri in campo sunt. Toss in some possessives - Ciceronis frater miles est. Obviously the vocab. in that last example was a bit steep as it would be wise to start with just the first or second declension. The point of this is just to teach Latin in the same manner English was taught. Certainly in English we learned how to say "I kicked the ball in the field" (place where) before learning to say "I kicked the ball in the field with amazing vigor" (manner) or "I kicked the ball in the field with my foot" (means).

While it certainly is neat (and very viable) to have students constructing real (i.e., substantial) sentences by the end of the first lesson, I worry about how many students may be turned off by such a rapid approach.

As for your verb tense naming scheme, I think the latter name scheme provides better insight into what the tenses actually imply, so my vote goes for that option. It took me the longest time as a student to make the distinction between Imperfect and Perfect with regards to the action's "completeness."

I'd be more than happy to make whatever contributions I can to this thing, just let me know what I can do to help! Cheers!

C. Seth Lester (http://www.sethlester.com/)

Systematic Approach
The problem is I want a systematic approach for latin.

As you can see I have a table for all the cases in Lesson 1 or 2. The first two lessons, as I had arranged it give a complete introduction into the terminology used. And in the 3rd lesson (which is quite a mess) you start to apply it to real Latin, starting with the Nominative and Accusative cases. I think it is important to start off comparing nominative and accusative, and getting students to recognize the forms as once you can do that, it is all a matter of memorizing suffixes (only nominative and accusative for lesson 3).

Also I think it would be appropriate to give simple rules to the suffixes and stem changes in the third declension so by the end of lesson 3 you would be able to:

Decline (only nominative and accusative) 1st declen, 2nd declen., 3rd declen, 4th declen. and 5th declen. including adjectives.

Pronouns will be introduced on the last lesson on nouns, also the effect of dropping the subject noun.

1st and 2nd persons will not be dealt with until we start learning to conjugate verbs which will be quite later down the track (I think nouns (which include substantives, adjectives and pronouns) are the MOST important things to get out of the way.

Constructions with the 3rd persons of to be (est, sunt, erit, erunt, erat, erant, fuit, fuerunt, fuerit, fuerit, fuerat, fuerant) can be learnt but it must be emphasized that these verbs take the NOMINATIVE.

If you wish, you can drop me an email at daniel_canaris@yahoo.com.au

Latin Dictionary...
I have been reading some of Des Cartes writings (which is in latin), and he employs peculiar Latin. Namely due to the fact that Latin "evolved" somewhat, but I have no clue what he is saying. If anyone has a philosopher Latin-English dictionary, or a link to an online one, that would be supper to put on! Cheers! Pablo

If we can find a good link on it, the one on www.perseus.tufts.edu would be the best. It includes all the classics and all the philosophers and all the big dictionaries (except the OLD.)

Formatting.
I try to help as much as I can, but unfortunately, since I'm actually using this book to learn Latin, I can't contribute in that manner. However, I can contribute by fixing / formatting tables, removing typos or tags that show though the page, and things like that.

That brings me to my question: is there some kind of set formatting that's been agreed upon? I've just been alternating the rows with grey and white where appropriate, but I'm not sure if I should do anything with the heading or use different colors.

Like I said, I'm trying to help, but I can't help if I don't know what to do.

Also, is there going to be a non-introductory Latin course? If not, then each of the parts (Part 1, Part 2, etc.) can be made into a header and the "Introductory Latin Course" header can be removed. This will make sure that the table of contents works correctly, although I'm not particularly sure that it's necessary to have a table of contents for a table of contents.

On the front page, a note has been added by someone asking for macrons to be used to indicate vowel length. I see that there is no need for such a thing, because there different ways in which latin can be pronounced.

'''This is true, however the macron must be used for the ablative singular (otherwise it gets confusied with the nominative pluaral. --source of "Note". It is also best used for the acc. to distingush for novices between the English plural -s and the 1st declension accusative plural since English has a much broader concept of plural which doesn't always depend on case. So I just made sure to point to people how to do this. (Technical skills are also covered in many textbooks.) I struggled to figure out how to do it.

I am also learning Latin through this text, and Latin via Ovid.

Speaking Latin???
There is now an enormous online audio course for spoken Latin, with many thousands of users. This is Latinum, and it is delivered by podcast. There are also a huge number of colloquies, dialogues etc that were written for beginners to learn colloquial Latin (heavily influenced by Terence and Plautus,of course ). A google search for Latinum, or 'latin podcast' will bring up the Latinum podcast, which is free. There is also a community of Latin speakers who communicate regularly through Schola.ning.com.

Hi,

I ´m wondering if it is reasonable to make a section for speaking Latin. I would like to work upon this section, altough I am not that experienced in spoken Latin. But I think some might be interested in basic speaking exercises and phrases you may use some time. So I think, actually speaking Latin is not taught at school neither at University, so maybe it could be an interesting thing for (advanced) Latin learners. Tell me your opinon upon this please.

Sincerely,

Kay Lorenz
 * There are universities that teach spoken classical Latin, and definitely a lot of religious schools that teach "church latin." And, despite what anyone says, we do know a lot about colloquial Latin, how things were pronounced, colloquialisms and slang, etc.  So yes, at least pronunciation and at most a steady stream of spoken Latin should be inected into this book.  --Mrcolj 04:55, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I just saw this: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Spoken_Latin --Mrcolj 05:28, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

 * I am fluent in spoken Latin and let me tell you that it is used more then just in university courses on in the Church. Not to be hostile but I also take exception to the characterization of Church Latin as somehow being different, wierd or bad.  This may not have been your intention but it came across to me that you meant that by putting it in "quotes".  The kind of Church Latin that you find in the liturgy or in set prayers like the Our Father is an idiom of Latin that is different but not significantly different from everyday Latin or the Latin used for formal meetings.  We know that Issac Newton, regardless of what you think of him, didn't write in the idiom of Latin used in the liturgy but he did write in the common Latin idiom of his time that was intelligible to almost all litterate people of that time.  Just like Biblical Greek is different from Ancient Greek due to the inclusion of and direct translations from Hebrew and other Semetic languages, they were both used in the Church, one for the liturgy and bible and the other for everyday communication.  The modern version of Latin that exist and is decended from the Latin that Newton and his peers used is not only used by the Church but by anyone that respects the language enough to allow it to grow and start to include new words and used new letters like the now demonized letter J.  Much of this has come about by teachers that want to teach very specifically Classical Latin.  I respect their decision to teach Classical Latin as it is an important idiom of the Language that is important form many people to learn but I do take issue when people begin to say that ONLY Classical Latin is correct.  They start to want to expunge books of the letter J, accent marks and any words not used by Cicero or Ceasar.  Keep in mind that Classical Latin only existed for about 100 to 200 years.  Anything else is simply an immitation of it.  Latin has a 3000 year history and mother tounge speaker living in a very wide area that used slightly different vobaculary and had local idioms.  Are we to tell them that they are all wrong, us who come to Latin as a second Language, tell the ancients who were Native speakers and maybe didn't even know any other language that they are wrong.  Certainly not.  There is more to Latin then just the simple form of Classical Latin or the very complicated form of Liturgical Latin.  Latin is a full and complete language and one should never be afraid or embarassed to learn to speak it.

Exercises
I have realised how little thought has been put into the exercises even many points of existing grammar. I believe we should pick passages for every page which relate to the grammatical concepts introduced in the chapter in addition to revised exercises. I shall spend quite some time this week revising pages and making additional entries.

Comments from a Latin Student
I have a number of comments on how everything is done - and, I want people to keep in mind, I mean it in a good way. It seems to me that at certain points some things are introduced far too soon - subjunctive, for example, and declining adjectives (although that should be fine as long as we stick to first and second declension!) - while other things are brought up too slowly. For example, I think we could teach all the cases at once, which I realize the author is considering - maybe leave out the Vocative, as it's not particularly useful and not technically a case - or something to that extent.

Just a thought; it seems to me that the way some of it is organized is inconsistent, which can make it hard to follow.

Some things also don't make sense to me - for example, how can an adjective be a noun? Something can't modify itself. I just have a bunch of little nitpicks; however, I'm not a professional, just a student, so feel free to correct me!

Awesome work, though - a really tough project! Hope I can help out too.

--Chiyo

PS - My vote goes to the former system, as in the one with Pluperfect, but that's only because that's what I was taught and it's what I'm the most used to. Don't care much either way, though.

- Reply: I agree many things need to be improved in layout and presentation. Please feel free to make changes as you see fit.

Now concerning the 'Noun'. Latin grammarians, like Donatus, considered the adjectives, pronouns and substantives to all be 'nouns'. And in fact, many of the older grammar also do this as well. Nouns to the ancient grammarians were words which were declined which include adjectives, pronouns and substantives. - Daniel Canaris

What are those two new additions on the title page? What are they there for?

declensions and cases
I'm using your text to learn latin, not very hard at any rate. As a person who is more or less oblivious this crazy Latin grammar, I find you explain most of it well enough, although it may be a little technical. Declension is the part that gets me. I see that the nouns are modified depending on their use in the sentence, but what's with the 5 declensions? I think this is something that needs clarification. I'm assuming the different declensions just mean you decline differently, like conjugating verbs differently in spanish depending on the ending? Also, the different cases could use a little clarification, I get the feeling that everything but nominative and accusative has some pretty complex nuances. It seems pretty good for being a work in progress, albeit a bit complicated for a new latin student (or just me?). Just trying to give you a learner's perspective.

- REPLY

Your assumption is right.

Don't worry about 'nuances' at the beginning. Datives are used more than just 'giving', genitives more than just origin etc. but don't worry about it. You'll learn it gradually.

The final vowel (or consonent) of the stem of the noun determines what declension a noun is. From analysing the different declensions and the case endings you can see that each case ending of one declension shares something in common with another. A 'm' sound is typical for singular accusatives (like Greek) and 'um' for genitive plurals (like the greek on). Different indo-european languages also share common case endings. The endings though become corrupted and certain elisions occur dependant on the final vowel or consonent. All the nouns with the vowel 'a' as the final vowel of the stem fall under the catagory of 1st declension nouns. 'o' nouns are the second declension, 'consonents or i' 3rd declension, u 4th declension and 'e' 5th declension. By reading a bit of basic linguistics it's not hard to see how this occurs.

In Spanish you have verb conjugations, and the concept is not dissimilar.

hablo hablas habla hablamos hablaís hablan

and other 'a' verbs conjugate like this in spanish

form the 'a' conjugation which all conjugate alike (the a conjugation in Spanish is very regular, which is to do with the vowel 'a', because in Latin the 'a' nouns and verbs are the most stable as well)

amo amas amat amamus amatis amant

and other 'a' verbs conjugate like this in english.

'a' nouns in Latin nearly all decline like 'puella' (puella, puellam, puellae, puellae, puella, puellae, puellas, puellarum, puellis, puellis) 'o' nouns in Latin nearly all decline like 'servus' 'consonent' and 'i' nouns in Latin nearly all decline like 'civis' or 'rex' 'u' nouns nearly all decline like cornus 'e' nouns decline like 'res'.

Imperatives
I have noticed that there is not a section on imperatives. Imperatives are rather simply as far as I recall from school. Imperatives are commands!

First Conjuagtion

S Ama = (You) Love! P Amate = (You) Love!

Second Conjugation

S Mone = (You)Advise! P Monete = (You) Advise!

Third Conjugation

S Rege = (You) Rule! P Regite = (You) Rule!

Except for: (Mnemonic "Dick had a Duck with fur on its face")

- Dic Dicite - Duc Ducite - Fer Ferte - Fac Facite

Fourth Conjugation

S Audi = (You) Hear! P Audite = (You) Hear!

-- Reply to Reply

An easier way to remember the declensions, and the way in which I was taught, being a Latin student myself, is to have a song that you can sing to yourself that identifies them. For example, I was taught "One is -o, -are; Two is -eo, -ere; Three is -o, -ere; Four is -io, -ire; and Third -io is -io, -ere." I was taught that the "fourth declension" here was the "third -io" and the "fifth" was the "fourth," which may or may not be confusing to you... The numbers in the song are the declensions, and the first ending is the first-person nominative singular form, whereas the second ending is the ending for the infinitive. When you look up a word in almost any Latin/English dictionary, only the first- person nominative singular form and the infinitive form will be listed, so if you look in a Latin/ English dictionary, or you happen to know these two forms of the word, you will be able to identify the declension of that word. Hope this was helpful!!!

68.107.196.191 23:47, 17 December 2006 (UTC)Natsirk

Answers To Exercises
I think the answers for all of the exercises should be given somewhere, otherwise it defeats the purposes of the exercises. I would go ahead and add them, but I am student and am not very confident with the accuracy of my answers.

Advanced
perhaps after all the basic grammatical bases have been covered there could be added an introduction to Latin meter and where it is used?

Learning unused languages
It is always suggested that people practice the language they are learning by using it. The problem: no one speaks languages like Latin or Greek anymore (two that I would like to learn). This is a huge obsticale to learning. Does anyone have any ideas/suggestions on how to practice with people? I am thinking the best way is to find a friend that also wants to learn, and learn at the same time. --Loplin 02:46, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

 * See William Harris' excellent essay the Sin of Silent Reading for some trenchant views on learning Latin. It might be hard to find another student but you can always read out loud.  --kwhitefoot 15:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Just a comment and I don't mean to be snide but I am pretty sure people still speak Greek in Greece as it is the only official language. Modern Greek is a little different form Ancient Greek but learning it would help you a lot to learn to speak Ancient Greek. Many people do still use Latin and many people still speak Latin but the problem is that modern writers or speakers of Latin are painted as strange, religious fanatics by people that support ONLY Classical Latin.

Long Vowels
I looked over this Latin course and I noticed that you didn't use long vowels (ā, ē, ī, ō, ū). They are necessary to correctly determine stress, so should they be added? Gandalf1491 15:29, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Added long vowels up to Lesson 10. Gandalf1491 16:13, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

Hard Going
Although I can understand this course, I have a nagging suspicion that I can only understand because I learned it all years ago. I think that some simpler explanations would help, perhaps it would be useful to have some explanations on linked pages. What do people think? Gaius Calvus 13:28, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Amen to that. 216.178.90.41 02:17, 2 May 2006 (UTC)TC

Missing Stuff
I have noticed that a certain construction is missing. Where is the ablative absolute? The ablative absolute is probably the bane of anyone learning to translate latin. An example would be caesare in absentia which would be translated as When/While Caesar was absent.--IKnowNothing 00:39, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Sorry another clause strung to mind the Double Dative. The soldiers were for a hinderance to Hannibal. --IKnowNothing 00:52, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Naming policy
To avoid confusion, all pages of the book called Latin should start with the word Latin. The majority of the pages already do this, but I suggest a move of Spoken Latin and other such pages. I might attempt to move the pages myself. --Kernigh 04:43, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi Kernigh. Changed your tag to a merge tag as I couldn't see any incorrectly named pages in the Latin book which needed fixing. Cheers Ad --AdRiley 12:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Comments from a different Latin student
As far as I can see, there are a few organizational problems. I think that all five cases should be introduced at once, or at least very quickly. After all, what good is the nominative by itself? The way I was taught (which worked well) was to introduce all five cases quickly, but do the declensions less quickly. It isn't that difficult to come up with sentences using only first declension.

Also, I think that there should at least be an introduction to verbs in the first or second lesson (maybe just present tense). This way, the student can practice with simple sentences and thoroughly memorize 1st declension, which is absolutely necessary. After that, 2nd declension is not that different from 1st, and imperfect isn't that different from present, etc.

More extensive selected vocabulary would also be nice, because dictionaries are a little bit intimidating, especially if you don't know what priciple parts are, etc. Also, just knowing what to learn is a setback. People just being introduced don't have to know arbitrary words such as orca, orcae, f. -- a pot with a large belly.

e.g. my original vocab consisted of: illa, hic, agricola, fabula, familia, femina, fenestra, ferula, filia, ianua, mensa, patria, pictura, poeta, provincia, puella, regina, sella, silva, tabula, terra, via, villa, vita, murus, pavimentum, puer, stilus, in, cum, amo, habito, laudo, narro, voco, sum, and et. Memorizing basic words such as these makes learning latin a lot easier when it is at first taught with simple words.

Did I miss the section on deponent verbs?

Tables of irregular verbs would be nice. Sum, Fero, Volo, Nolo, Malo, etc.

So far, it's pretty good, though, despite my criticism.

216.178.90.41 02:16, 2 May 2006 (UTC)TC

And another student..
It's rather difficult to navigate my way around this site, so forgive me if I missed this earlier on somewhere else..

As a person who has no prior knowledge of Latin whatsoever, it is difficult to grasp some of the things presented here. For me, at least, it would help a great deal if somebody could include a brief table or something that defined (translated) all the terms/phrases used in any give lesson. It would make a great deal more sense to me, as I can understand grammatically what it being explained sometimes, but I am unsure still of what exactly is being said.

As the person before me mentioned, I would greatly appreciate it if somebody could do up an appendix that is linked from the first page of basic vocab in one tense, just so I could at a very minimal level get started with simple phrases and sentences, and build up from there.

All in all, though, it is a formidable undertaking to learn a language from a textbook, and all the more daunting to teach one. I greatly applaud all the effort gone into the work so far, and eagerly await the completion of this text.

 * While this course is under construction, try the free courses I created at . Junesun 19:14, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Orphans
These pages are not linked to from anywhere in this book. Please either incorporate them into the text or mark them for deletion with delete.

 * Latin/Appendix A
 * Latin/Appendix B
 * Latin/Appendix E
 * Latin/Index II
 * Spoken Latin

Thanks! --hagindaz 01:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Ideas for Revisions
Currently my biggest issue with the book, besides some inaccuracies I've been fixing, is the order of chapters. Students learn the vocative and ablative absolute before they can say "pater est bonus."

As it is, I'm going to make some revisions to the order. If this is disliked, a revert will fix that immediately!

My plans are to subdivide the course into grades. That is grade 1 would have the basics, nominative, accusative, and present tense verbs, as well as the first few declensions of nouns, and a basic overview of verbs, adjectives, and so forth.

As an update, I have done that which I hoped to do to make the book more understandable and useful for the beginner. Unfortunately, I think I may have butchered the formating from earlier times into an irrecoverable state. For that I apologize greatly. Nonetheless, I have tried to simplify some complicated topics(such as the imperfect and future, genative and dative, etc. all being one topic instead of two or more, and invite anyone to help with this. Also, many of the perfects are completely, for lack of a better word, wrong. I think help with that would also be great.

Again, apologizing, --Asv 20:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Thinking of Helping
I am a Latin teacher and have developed an iterestin way of teaching Latin that I find works very well. However, I teach Latin generally and I teach students to use what I call the easy pronunciation where C and G change before an EE type sound. It looks to me that the kind of Latin being taught here and the Latin that I teach are incompatible with each other. Many people make arguement about Classical Latin and I certainly have no problem with people teaching Classical Latin but let us remember that the Classical Idiom is but one of the many idioms that existed and it only existed for a small time period when compared to the whole of the language. I teach Latin as a complete language and I would hope that my students could read Classical, pre Classical, post Classical or any other type of Latin you could throw at them. To get to the point I don't suppose you would be willing to reconsider your policies regarding the other idioms of Latin. If not them I would suggest with all humility that this particular module be rename Classical Latin so that it could be more accurate and advertise exactly what is being taught here and open up the more general name of Latin for those of us who want to teach all of Latin.--Billiot 10:32, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Pre/Suffixes
Could any of you tell me in which part of this book I could write a section or two on prefixes and suffixes? They obviously aren't a large part of latin that your everyday student would need to learn to be able to translate a latin text, but there isn't a lot in Wikiland about these. I'm writing about the diminutive suffix in latin at Vicipaedia, but I'm sure that the page won't be done justice there. --Harris Morgan 18:23, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

An alternative book
I was thinking about making an alternative Latin book. Now before you kill me, I want you to look at some other language books and see what they teach first and what the emphasise; they teach "greeting people" and "conversing" first, learning how to introduce oneself. They don't slap a bunch of declension and conjugation tables in your face. Therefore I propose we create another lesson, which teaches Latin in order to make the student good at "speaking" Latin. To say how much something costs, to say which way to the bank and to order a hamburger. Sure some might say "why learn that? you don't need to order hamburgers in Latin", well why not? Some people who have learned Latin for many years don't know how to say "my name is xxx", and only know how to say "sic transit gloria mundi" and something like that. Now what do you say? I personally don't think that this would make it too complex for the students, and that it only make learning more fun. Then later, when people have mastered some helpful phrases and sentences (not "the girls carry the water"), we can teach them about the cases and grammar. I think this will make many kids aspire to learn Latin; "hey guess how you say "fuck you" in Latin??". Hilarity ensues! --BiT 16:34, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Why do u want to teach people to order hamburgers in latin sorry? my view is the crowd for studying latin don't learn it to speak it they learn it to be able to translate and appreciate such writers like Virgil or Horace. To read that stuff, you'll need to know your tables solid from the beginning. I see where your coming from, its a nice hook maybe to get people in, but you might be wasting your time writing more than a few chapters for the crowd you'll get though. 220.253.21.32 10:14, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Wow!
I just want to congratulate and thank all the fabulous people who have worked on and continue to work on this wikibook. It is simply outstanding, and I can already see myself making leaps and bounds in my latin thanks to you.

Spoken Latin
You know, casual Classic Latin.

Diagramming
Shouldn't we include diagramming somewhere around here? It is highly essential to a through understanding of Latin grammar. Also, is Henle Latin included as a resource? Thanks, Laleena (talk) 01:30, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Wikijunior
The Latin Wikijunior article needs a bit of help to make it to publishable status. Could some please help? Laleena (talk) 19:45, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Serious lack of example sentences
There is something very frustrating about seeing someone try to create useful material without knowing what a student really needs.
 * As a matter of fact, I am studying Latin myself using the Memoria Press curriculum. (Prima Latina, then Latina Christiana, and so on.) You could say that these people know what a student needs-plenty of review, a new list of vocab/grammar every week, and continual review. I can read some Latin and write the same (Maria occupat mensarum ex Romam, which means "Mary seizes tables out of Rome"). Thoughts? Laleena (talk) 14:00, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Chapter five
why are all the chapter five links going to places that their name doesn't imply?

Translation Translate a passage from Catullus.

Exercises Review of subjunctive forms.

Exercises Review of passive forms.

Translation

Revision  Ideas and memory tools for language patterns in conjugation and declining.

things labled 'translation' go to grammer exercises, and none of the things labled as grammar exercises match their titles. Is this deliberate? if so it is very confusing. Storeye (talk) 03:10, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned page
Latin/Introduction to Nouns (L1) is not linked to by this book. Please link to it, merge it into another page and mark it with, or if it is not needed mark it with. Thanks. -- Adrignola talk contribs 02:11, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Clarifications
I think that we should explain everything, like where sentences come from and such, right from the start. I think the best way to do this would be to make a new page under the first chapter. I'm a very new memberand am not sure of how to do this.

Major revisions and restructuring needed
This book needs some fundamental restructuring and fixes. For example, i have found that it is incredibly difficult to learn without the presence of macrons, especially for first-time students with no prior knowledge of Latin whatsoever. Additionally, all of the cases should be introduced at once, not over a series of lessons. The page on the uses of the subjunctive is severely lacking. Use of linguistic terms in articles without defining them can confuse first-time foreign language learners. Frankly, this book is not of featured quality, in my opinion. It is incomplete and needs serious improvements.

Please offer your opinions. If I receive no feedback to the contrary within the next three days, I will begin a massive restructuring to the likes of that which I have described above. Thank you. Cuine (discuss • contribs) 01:05, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

 * OMG, yes. I found the structure of the book perplexing, the sentences inconsistent, the vocabulary choices strange (I'd start with English-like ones first, and include English words derived from the Latin to make memorization easier), and the amount of information in the first parts overwhelming. I only say this because I've been studying Latin formally for three years, and have seen many, many examples of Latin grammars. --Robert.Baruch (discuss • contribs) 19:53, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

 * Perhaps rather than a major restructuring, a new book should be written? --Robert.Baruch (discuss • contribs) 13:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

Latin Mottos and Phrases
I think that the list of mottos / phrases should be expanded and that for each motto there should be a reference to who it has been attributed to (e.g. veni, vidi, vici to Caius Julius Caesar, etc.); if a motto has no clear author then it should be marked as popular wisdom or something like that. Ade56facc (discuss • contribs) 15:04, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

First section: Note: relevant image?
In section Note, what is that image on the right about?

It does not look like to be the cover of a latin book.

Besides this there is almost no description, only "1490".

Can it be fixed?

UPDATE: I have just looked for that image at common.wikimedia and the original description is: "Formulario di epistole" (it), (a collection of letters about prayers, etc.) and 1490 is probably the year of first publication. I think that it should be replaced with something about latin, not italian. The embarassing fact is that that image has been associated to latin topic in tens of other pages in various languages. Ade56facc (discuss • contribs) 18:24, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * UPDATE: as in the article/book main page there are incomplete/broken links and as it looks like that in the last 9..10 years only a couple of minor changes have been done, I have decided to proceed with the replacement of the image of the cover book above named. NOTE: IMHO Latin page should be updated and completed in a few sections, mostly in "Appendixes" section.Ade56facc (discuss • contribs) 12:38, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

TODO
This book has not been completed, there are several parts that should be added, completed and/or verified.
 * 1) First book part Introduction to the origins and structure of Latin has confusing / misleading titles / contents; content should be categorized and expanded, you should not mix in the same page too different topics such as "how to learn a language" and "the origins and structure of latin".
 * 2) Not all sub-chapters listed in main page of Latin book have a description in italics like: The Imperfect Tense The imperfect tense, working in the past.
 * 3) Tables in most pages:
 * 4) there are a few pages that use pre-formatted text blocks instead of using tables;
 * 5) not all tables have the same style (some have double line borders, others one line borders, others no border;
 * 6) a few tables are too wide to fit in an A4 PDF document, maybe they could narrowed a bit.
 * 7) Exercises (see the various lessons):
 * 8) several "Exercises" are not using exercise template (work in progress);
 * 9) there are many answers in "Solutions" that are missing or not quite right (both latin / english translations); a few of them have been checked and fixed but not all of them.
 * 10) There is an "Orphaned page" about nouns, what to do about it?
 * 11) There is a separate chapter "Spoken Latin" that looks like a trial / a test that has been only partly written.
 * 12) Items in Appendixes should be reordered, right now they look like to appear in casual order without a logic.
 * 13) A few items in Appendixes have been linked to main page but they do not exist yet:
 * 14) Morphology of Latin
 * 15) Ecclesiastical & Medieval Latin
 * 16) Library of Graded Latin Texts for Translation
 * 17) Prefixes and Suffixes
 * 18) A few items in Appendixes look like to be links to other wiki books, maybe they should be put in a separate section (done).

Surely there are other little details to be reviewed / improved. Ade56facc (discuss • contribs) 17:18, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

 * Some of the declension tables vary in ordering, also; I think the default is NGDAA; but there are also NAGDA tables, even within the same page. JimKillock (discuss • contribs) 17:35, 15 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Latin


text:
Latin/Appendix F

English abbreviations derived from Latin
Common English abbreviations from Latin.

Latin

title: Latin/Appendix F


text:
Latin/Authors

Authors of the Latin Wikibook include the following contributors:
 * 1) Steele W. Farnsworth

and many anonymous Wikibooks contributors.

title: Latin/Authors