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Talk:How To Assemble A Desktop PC/Choosing the parts/CRT vs. LCD Debate

monitor pros and cons
I was very careful to only list advantages, because everything can be listed as both an advantage and as a disadvantage. A more negative way would be to list only disadvantages. I think it is best to just go back to only listing advantages, but I can fill in the numerous CRT disadvantages...

Going to a table is another way to deal with things.

old   analogLCD    digitalLCD - --- --- weight           high       low         low shipping cost   high        low        low purchase cost   low      medium       high etc.             blah      blah        blah

BTW, I can supply test images that show just how horrible a CRT is. Here: http://www.cs.uml.edu/~acahalan/lcd/

 * I get the point. LCDs don't have certain flaws. The link is just a test pattern. In actual use, I've never had the problem, but the problem does display on my screen. I won't be switching anytime, unless they can replicate the glow of phosphors. Something about the glow is just the right intensity and everything. The backlighting on many of them washes out the color. Maybe OLED will do the trick. But I doubt that OLED will be able to display more than one resolution.
 * Ah yes. Tube amps and vinyl LPs, right? I find colors to be much better on an LCD, but that's with an all-digital system of course. AlbertCahalan 00:29, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Either way, why are anlog and digital LCDs seprate. Isn't the only diffrence, that the analog has to put the video signal through a DAC? And could you please make it a little more NPOV than it's current state.Reub2000 21:56, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * That difference is huge. An analog connection will cause a monitor to fail the test pattern. (not as badly as a CRT though) An analog connection will cause an unsteady image, about as bad as you get with a CRT. An analog connection will allow crosstalk (blue leaks into red, etc.) in the cable. Half the reason to own an LCD is discarded if you connect it to an analog port.
 * Go into a store some time and look for an Apple Cinema Display (20" or 23", about 1920x1280) or Apple Cinema Display HD (30", 2560x1600). The quality is stunning. Even the cheap Apple displays are high quality, though smaller.
 * As for NPOV, I think the article is more than fair to the obsolete dead-end technology. It isn't right to suggest that normal people buy such displays. It's like telling people to buy turntables instead of CD players. Soon it will be time to just delete the CRT info, because CRTs won't be sold. It's happening already.
 * A little info on the NPOV policy: w:Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. In your current form, it is your bias against CRT monitors.
 * First of all, that's not wikibooks. Second of all, there was no bias. I simply listed the flaws. I take it that you would rather cover this up. Why? The old version was horribly biased, by failing to present all the flaws of CRTs. It made CRTs look almost as good as LCDs, which is simply not factual.
 * OK, so this is wikibooks. It doesn't change the facts that wikipedia and wikibooks use the same npov policy. The article can't blatently show bias against CRTs. Neither can it show bias against LCD panels. The article does say that if you don't need the speed of CRTs, that you should use an LCD. IMO pretty fair, and doesn't attack either, but tells who should get each type of display. BTW, I moved the section to How To Build A Computer/Development until it is fixed.Reub2000 04:10, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

OK, I listed all the facts. If the facts look better for one type, oh well. That is not bias at all. Bias would be any suggestion that this is a fairly even choice, in direct contradiction to the facts. (go ahead and junk the old pro+con lists; the table is better for comparison) AlbertCahalan 05:03, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Check this out:
 * 92.6 pounds, 1920x1200, 22.5" viewable, $1999, SONY GDM-FW900
 * 15.5 pounds, 1920x1200, 23.0" viewable, $1799, Apple Cinema HD Display
 * 27.5 pounds, 2560x1600, 29.7" viewable, $2999, Apple Cinema HD Display

So... the CRT is 0.5 inch smaller, 6x the weight (Geeez! 92.6 pounds!), and just shy of 2 feet deep. It even costs more, and that's not counting the shipping. What a deal! AlbertCahalan 16:16, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Your comparing it to a sony display, which explains that. My Mitsubishi Dimond Pro 930SB is 51.5lb, has a max resolution of 1920x1440, and only cost me $300. My NEC Multisysc FE991SB, has a slightly lower max res, has a horizonatal refresh of 96hz (1600x1200@75Hz or 1280x1024@85hz) and costed me $270, and weighs 50.1lb. Both of them had only $25 shipping each, much less than the diffence between it and an LCD. Only once have I had to move them, when I got them. The weight would definitly be a problem if I frequented LAN parties, but I don't. 2 19" monitors for less than your super big LCD display. Reub2000 17:41, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I think Sony is pretty much the standard. I didn't go searching for the worst case. I just picked the first name-brand CRT I found that was about the same size as the 23" (mid-size) Apple display. Note that the Sony is advertised as a 24" display; I made sure the viewable area was similar. I listed the 30" Apple display too because the Sony is both heavier and more expensive than the 23" Apple display. AlbertCahalan 19:56, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Sony is not the standard, lol. No, their stuff is known as overpriced.

 * First, I didn't happen to see anything else decent sized. Second, I really do think Sony is the standard. That's what I've mostly seen in the USA in business use. Mitsubishi does not exist. I have seen NEC being used.

Most LCD displays will scale an image properly. Sometimes the fancy digital ones won't bother to try, and sometimes the crappy ones won't do a good job, but the typical LCD will do just fine.

If you think your CRT display is perfectly flat, please, put a ruler to it. Do this both vertically and horizontally. In case you somehow have a "flat" display, take a good look at the thickness of the glass. It's not the glass that matters, but where the image is floating. Thick glass around the edges is cheating. Hint: a Trinitron display is cylindrical.

CRTs are known for causing seizures. True, you have to be susceptable, so "commonly" refers to such people.

Moire defects are not only on a test pattern. The test pattern is not some magic image. Heck, I've seen moire effects on a CRT when using the default X background. (From the Linux console, type "X" to start up X without GNOME or KDE. Use Alt-Ctrl-Backspace to exit.)

Who are you to say that the X-ray radiation is "low"? Compared to what? Surely not any other display technology. This is a NPOV problem.

The same for dust. Factual: "yes". POV: "a little".

Apreture grill displays are cylindrical. They are usually flat in the vertical direction.

Evidence for being fragile... well, what do you think the support wires are for? Try dropping your display on the table a few times. You'll knock the apreture grill out of alignment.

 * It's a test pattern, besides for the few things you have brought up, I've never had repeating vertical lines displayed like that. And the x-ray radioation is compared to what is safe. I've spent most of my life infront of a CRT with no ill effect. I made it more NPOV, but then you reverted what you didn't like. Reub2000 17:44, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * PS. when would a monitor be dropped on a table?

 * Lots of people have trouble being gentle when trying to set down a bulky object that weighs 50 to 100 pounds.

commonly disputed issues

 * flatness
 * If you can't lay a ruler against it in any direction w/o any gap, it's not flat. Also, "spherical" and "cylindrical" are hard for most people to understand. It's better to just say "curvy", which actually sounds not as bad. (See? I try not to make the CRT look worse than the facts require.)
 * If I put a ruler up against my monitor, it wouldn't curve. It's perectly flat. But I won't do that because I don't want to scratch my screen.Reub2000 01:46, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll have to try this test in a computer store some time, because so far I've never seen a truly flat CRT. I've seen plenty of curved ones that were claimed to be flat though. AlbertCahalan 02:54, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Just thought I would add a very belated comment that the screen of my elderly CRT -- an NEC MultiSync FE950+ -- IS totally flat. (Yes, I tried putting a (non-flexible) ruler up against it and there are no gaps, not even at the edges.) I got it in 2002 and it sure has been an excellent display and (knock on wood) is still working great seven years later. For someone putting together a system cheaply, a used one of these could be a good buy if from a local source so you could check it out thoroughly & wouldnt have to pay shipping --wichienmaat

 * trinitron support wires
 * They are easy to see. Obviously they don't show up on black. Fill the screen with light grey though, and there they are, plain as could be. (not white, because blooming -- another CRT defect -- may hide the problem)
 * Still barely visable. It's a fraction of a millimeter, and barely any darker than the screen. Reub2000 01:46, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * air conditioning cost
 * This is real, well-known, and obvious. Feel the top of your CRT. Compare the watt rating. Providing actual numbers is fairly useless because air conditioning cost varies with the temperature setting, outside temperature, and many other factors. If you really want numbers though, NEC provides some numbers that combine both direct power consumption and AC power consumption. NEC claims that 4 years of operation with AC efficiency of 1.2 will cost $8696 for 500 15" LCDs and $36560 for 500 17" CRTs, for a savings of $27864.
 * $18/Year/CRT monitor. Not very much. Reub2000
 * Well, how many years do you keep a display? Your average monitor cost was $285, but I don't know what that would cost you today. If you keep a monitor for 5 years, a $13.93 per year difference comes to $70. So you could buy a $355 monitor for the same end cost. You have 19" monitors though, meaning the savings with LCDs would be bigger for you. (perhaps allowing for $400 LCDs) AlbertCahalan 02:54, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * But can this $400 LCD display UT2K4 at 1600x1200 and my desktop at 1280x1024 and starcraft at 640x480? Reub2000 14:59, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * It looks like nobody wants such a display. You have to move up to 20" viewable to get 1600x1200. Dell had such a screen on sale for $507. If 1280x1024 is fine though, you can get a 12 ms (83 redraws per second) display for $209 and an 8 ms (125 redraws per second) display for $235.
 * resolutions
 * This is a gamer thing, and only because most games fail to scale as desired by the user. It would be highly unusual to run desktop apps at non-native resolution. Hopefully, with the increasing usage of non-4:3 displays, this problem will soon be behind us.
 * No this is not just a gamer thing. My granny has a 19" 1280x1024 LCD screen. Her eyesight is poor, so she runs her desktop at 800x600. This makes the screen blurry. Many 17" LCD screens run at 1280x1024. IMO, a more appropriate resolution for 17" is 1024x768. And 16:9 screens for computers makes no sense at all. Watching movies in 2.35:1 on a 16:9 screen makes perfect sense, but most computer documents are are long, but not wide, making a 4:3 screen better suited for the task. And the gaming issue is not about aspect ratios. I'm a StarCraft addict, a game that only plays in 640x480. Also, many computers may not even be capable of playing games at the computers resolution. My computer can only play half-life 2 at 1280x1024. Good thing I wasn't playing it on your apple cinima display. Reub2000 01:46, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * That's truly sad. Your granny needs help with system settings. Go adjust the DPI setting or set a "large fonts" mode for her. She'll like that a lot better, because the letters have better shapes when they have more pixels. Probably a projector would have been better though, allowing for a nice 50" display. AlbertCahalan 02:54, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * StarCraft is a crummy old game. What else is there to say? Someday you might run it in an emulator that does nice scaling, just as people do with old game cartridge ROM images in arcade machine emulators. AlbertCahalan 02:54, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I like it, it's a nice game. I don't see windows or the x86 architechetue going anywhere, so I'll be playing it nativly on Windows. Reub2000
 * Windows will be gone in a decade or two, possibly a tad less. AlbertCahalan 16:47, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * What makes you say so? Reub2000
 * Lots of reasons. First, look back two decades in the other direction. People thought DOS would be forever, and they were pretty much wrong. (WinXP may have cmd.exe, but that isn't really DOS) Second, worldwide economics and politics don't really support Windows. China, India, Brazil... all prefer Linux at government level. Many smaller places do too, totalling a big portion of the world population. Places where a salary is $2000/year are unable to support the legal use of Windows. As these places become more developed, their choices will exert a pull on the rest of the world. Third, even in the developed world things are slowly changing. Given enough time, that change will amount to something. A decade or two is very long for the computer industry, but not all that long for society. AlbertCahalan 01:22, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * 16:9 screens are great for documents. Your work habits change. I put 2 or 3 documents side by side. Well, it's like having a dual-monitor setup without the seam down the middle. (presuming you don't do an over-under dual-monitor setup, which would be really unusual) AlbertCahalan 02:54, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * The split doesn't bother me, because I never spread a window over both monitors. I noticed that you mentioned poor support for dual monitors. I've had a few dialog boxes in between the monitors, but nothing major. No major problems with linux, with xinerama. BTW, I could have gotten a 21 inch CRT for a litte less than the price as my monitors, but I wanted dual-monitors. But 4:3 makes more sense that 16:9. The only point of 16:9 is because most people thing it's better.Reub2000
 * A 21" CRT would be about 19" viewable. I found a 20" viewable LCD (bigger), analog+digital, 1600x1200, for $592. Shipping was free of course, plus there is the power savings. Sale prices go as low as $507. AlbertCahalan 16:47, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * 2 of those would be sweet. 3200x1200 is such a perfect resolution. But a 21" CRT has a 20" veiwable area.
 * X-ray radiation vs. X-ray emmision
 * In this case, emmision is a euphemism. X-rays are ionizing radiation. They are mutagenic and carcinagenic. Perhaps "cancer-causing electromagnetic waves" would be better? :-)
 * I think you should not get on an airplane, get a dental x-ray, because you'll be exposed to radiation. Seriously, don't use the word radiation unless you mean gamma radation, what most people associate the word radiation with.Reub2000 01:46, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * As far as heath goes, what does this matter? Both gamma and X-ray radiation are ionizing. AlbertCahalan 02:54, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * The word radiation will just scare people. Everywhere I've seen says it's withing safe levels. Reub2000
 * eyestrain-causing image wiggle when near large motors
 * This is caused by the electron beam being bent, so it applies to all CRTs. If the grid/grill thing ever moves enough to matter, you should get your office out of the elevator shaft.
 * Get you office outta therr anyways. Reub2000
 * My former landlord, living upstairs from me, had a washing machine that would make my CRT image wiggle enough to give an instant headache. I could always tell when she was washing clothes. AlbertCahalan 02:54, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * bad small white-on-black text
 * This is caused by an interaction between non-linear (not 1.0) gamma and the frequency limitation of an analog system. Consider the '+' character, which can look somewhat like a '-' character. The analog signal, on the cable or in the form of an electron beam, must respond abruptly by going from 0% to 100% to 0% as the character is scanned from one side to the other. (you can see why the analog LCD would be half-way bad) Consider a whole row of text, and the desired voltage as a square wave. A true square wave is impossible; you'll get some blurring. This would be moderatly bad if 50% voltage indicated 50% brightness. Because of the gamma equation though, 50% brightness requires about 75% voltage. When the square wave is getting blurred, voltage is being averaged out. An even cycle of white and black turns into dark grey, not 50% grey. Getting back to the '+' character now, the horizontal bar will be mostly OK. The points come out a bit dark, but that matters little. The vertical bar is terrible, because the beam intensity never gets very high. Note that black-on-white text is decent, with stuff like the center of an '@' coming out a bit dark instead of pure white.
 * Looks OK to me. Though text does get blurred in the corners of my screen, while your plus sign is in the center.Reub2000 01:46, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * In the standard 6x13 "fixed" font, I usually couldn't tell a '+' from a '-' when running white-on-black with 1152x864 on a 16" CRT with a decent refresh rate. I had to switch to a 10x20 font, which made the vertical bar be 2 pixels wide. The 21" Sony CRTs commonly given to software developers are a bit better, with things being readable (slowly) at 1600x1200. (again, with a decent refresh rate) AlbertCahalan 02:54, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Backlight causes colors to be washed out
 * This is not generally true. Maybe eMachines still sells stuff with that problem, but I'd also expect them to ship CRTs that don't come close to showing black. LCD displays have been certified by printing press and graphics organizations for pre-press proofing usage. This means that the colors are good enough to rely on for printing up sales flyers and such. more info here
 * On plenty of LCD displays, I've seen the issue. My granny's LCD from Dell does it. My cell phone and clie do it. Reub2000 01:46, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll count the Dell display if it is a recent desktop display. The others are not computers. Laptop LCDs are purposely designed to mangle colors for extra-low power consumption. I'll insist that you count my old CRT though, which looks grey when it is off. In other words, this is not an LCD-vs.-CRT issue. It's just a matter of buying old display tech. FYI, I've never seen a CRT that could produce colors as well as my LCD. AlbertCahalan 02:54, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * makes faint high-pitched noise
 * Yes, really. CRTs make some people want to climb the walls. My mom can hear them just fine. The noise comes from the horizontal refresh. As the magnets bend the electron bean (at 15 kHz for example - it varies), they also vibrate. Humans sense vibrations as sound, so there you go.
 * Must be masked by the sound of my computers. There are 3 of them in my office.Reub2000
 * More likely, you don't have ears that can pick up the sound. It's often a really high pitch. People who detect the sound can often hear it through walls and over all sorts of background noice. It's piercing, if you have the ears to pick it up. AlbertCahalan 02:54, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm only 17. I think my ears should pick up pretty high sound. But louder noises will mask softer noises. Lossy audio codecs take advantage of this. Reub2000 22:47, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I suppose you got unlucky. Probably you are male, which would go against you. At age 17 or 18, I was able to hear the noise very well for one computer at school, and on a few other computers if I really tried. Some people can hear any normal TV set tube. (TV audio on or off) My mom is not able to hear a TV set, but she can't stand most CRTs. She is 50. AlbertCahalan 01:22, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * makes noise when turning on or changing resolution
 * This is very uncool. It's like having exposed screw heads on the outside of your car, tape on your glasses, a floor that groans and squeaks, duct tape patching mouse holes in your walls, an elevator that makes loud clattering noises...
 * I don't know how those have anything to do with the noise of a CRT monitor degaussing when it's turned on. Reub2000

continuing on...
I think we'll both agree that CRT and LCD displays have their place. I like CRTs. You obviously like LCDs. Nothing is going to change that. (I do think that OLED will eventually replace LCDs, and maybe even CRTs.)

 * OLED: mostly like an LCD, suffers burn-in, power usage depends on screen content (use a black background), slow models should not exist. AlbertCahalan 01:22, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Just curious. You mentioned portablity a lot. Do you frequently go to LAN parties? Reub2000 22:47, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * My brother does this. I tend to live in cramped places, place the computer on the floor, and move the monitor to vaccuum the floor. I've also had a desk get warped by the weight of a small CRT; this did not please me one bit. Previously I've lived in college dorm rooms where people had to move out every few months. When I move to a new house, I want to bring the expensive stuff in my car. AlbertCahalan 01:22, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I have decided to remove the current section on Monitors to the development section, and will revert to the old monitor section until this dispute is resolved. The current format of this section does not match the rest of the article.  --Noogz 04:48, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that was rude and unwise. Things were calming down. Now I am faced with a choice: revert your revert or rewrite the whole section yet again? The table was an excellent way to present things fairly. AlbertCahalan 12:28, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I think he meant that it should be edited in the development section, and that the old section is a placeholder until the new one is completed. Feel free to edit any of the sections in the delopment module. Reub2000 23:38, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, the current one is in the development section, and that is where new content is supposed to go before it gets merged into the final product. The reason why I moved it there is because it did not match the flow of the other sections in the article.  If you can make the information conveyed like the rest of the article, it's good.  If you want to work on your current section use the development section as opposed to completely editing a product that's ready to be included in a BOTM - it wasn't at a standard yet that is includible in a book like this yet.  --Noogz 00:27, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, it's in the development module now. It is also a better choice for the non-development module though, even if it isn't yet perfect. (When is anything perfect?) Note that it is highly abnormal to even have a development module. There may be a link to it somewhere, but not an obvious one. A wiki is all about live editing; this really goes against the wiki spirit. You should be improving the text, not reverting it. AlbertCahalan 03:33, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I totally agree about live editing, but at the time, we had a good description of the types of monitor, and the reasons why someone would want to buy one - A complete re-design of the section, that looks nothing like the rest of the article was not needed for a piece of work that is being considered for BOTM. We have the development section to allow you to work on big things without disrupting the flow of the book.  This is a case of flow, and the table disrupted it.  Make the info more like the rest of the article, and it may be considered for re-introduction to the article.--Noogz 04:42, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * A few highlights from Albert's new section that he decided was better than the old:
 * "Modern computer displays use a thin flat LCD panel with the DVI-D digital connector."
 * "Just as some people love tube amps and vinyl LP records, some people love the older monitor technology based on the CRT. Most people will want to avoid this dying technology."
 * Reub2000
 * Yes. Both are true. VGA, with the 15-pin connector, is a 1987 standard. It is being (slowly) replaced. DVI-D is the replacement. Some people do indeed love the old CRT technology, believe it or not. Most likely they are not aware of how good a modern LCD can be, but some seem to be more motivated by nostalgia. LCD sales are higher than CRT sales, with the difference increasing every day. CRT owners will be stuck paying fees to dispose of their CRTs, or illegally dumping their CRTs to avoid the fees. AlbertCahalan 19:06, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * More likely they are aware of how much LCDs SUCK. Why would I spend more money on a screen that can only do one resolution. Maybe they want the versatility of a CRT that can do any resolution from 640x480 to 2056x1536. Or maybe they just want a dirt cheap shadow mask display. LCDs have their place in portable electronics, but they don't have a place on my desk.Reub2000 20:08, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm editing it... Both of you, get over the CRT/LCD debate.  If you can't write an article without NPOV, then I'll remove it.  --Noogz 07:29, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Current Revision On Monitors

 * Right. It is now edited.  I have added all of the information that you guys have provided in this debate, and have tried to list the two major arguments for both types of screen, and I think I've been fairly neutral in this case.  Both of you need to be completely neutral in this section - obviously neither of you are, otherwise there would not have been this debate in the first place.  Also, Albert - notice the talk page for the entire document - it mentions that this book is following the British English spelling, and it would be appreciated ig you did so too.  Thanks --Noogz 08:11, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I thought I did a pretty good job of being fair to tubes. Please point out anything you believe to be unfair. Anyway... I hope you'll fix some problems with your version. AlbertCahalan 16:01, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I have gone through it, and tried to make it NPOV - there were many insults about CRTs, which I didn't believe to be neutral. --Noogz 10:51, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * CRTs do not have "generally superior response times" anymore. A low-end LCD has a 25 ms refresh. This allows for 40 full updates per second; many more updates can be done if simply changing the shade of grey instead of going full-scale between black and white. Most LCDs today have a 12 ms refresh, which allows for 83 full updates per second. I've seen 8 ms too, which allows for 125 full updates per second. Now, how many do you think a CRT can do? About the same. At best you have the refresh rate, but the CRT also has a bit of a lag in the phosphors. Lots of people run CRTs with 72 Hz (13.9 ms) or 75 Hz (13.3 ms) refresh. I've never heard of anyone claiming that a high refresh rate was critical for low-latency game play. So this whole point is looking like FUD to me. AlbertCahalan 16:01, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * If you read what I said regarding game-play refresh, I say that "25ms response is usually enough for general gaming". As for the Low-latency gaming, I have heard many arguments to support it - gamers generally prefer CRTs - this is a very hard to ignore fact.  As for the commonly used refresh rates, I would be struggling to find a high-end gamer who runs at 75Hz during games.  I run my CRT on 65Hz when using normal desktop stuff, and bump it up to 100 for gaming.  Most LCDs that would fall under a reasonable price for most people run between 12 and 15ms response, which is good enough for many purposes, but will fail for high-level gaming.
 * A year or two ago it was definitely true that "the best response times can often come at a vastly increased price". (40 ms was common) Now, a 12 ms display is very affordable. I suppose you could change your idea of "the best" to 8 ms, but anything much below 25 ms is overkill already. You might be needing an eyeball upgrade to appreciate it. Remember that NTSC video (US TV standard) is only 16.7 ms, PAL video (Euro TV standard) is only 20 ms, and the LCD response numbers are for full black-white transitions that don't usually happen in FPS games. AlbertCahalan 16:01, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * A 12ms response-time analog LCD will still cost 2-and-a-half times that of a 100Hz, same-sized CRT - that seems to be vastly increased to me. And, if you want to go down to 8ms, then you will be paying between 3.5 - 4 times as much.  --Noogz 10:51, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * You left out: annoying sounds, X-ray radiation, hadardous waste disposal fee, adjustment if you even move a big CRT to face a different direction (north vs. west), moire patterns commonly seen on desktop wallpaper and web page backgrounds, large motors causing a wiggly image that leads to headaches even if you are not conscious of the motion, operating costs (both financial and to the environment), and the general problem of tiny white-on-black text being difficult to read at high resolution. AlbertCahalan 16:01, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * The annoying sounds that you mentioned in your original article only occur when the screen is deactivated (loud "boings"), and the high-pitched noises can only be heard in a completely silent room - when you add fan noise and speakers they are both ignored. Those Moire patterns generally only happen in the worst of circumstances - Most wallpapers and backgrounds don't use such intricate patterns anymore.  Yes they can happen, but they won't occur in normal usage - Test patterns generally force the worse.  --Noogz 10:51, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * You also left out information on an LCDs Native Resolution. Not only is it usful information for someone deciding between a CRT and an LCD, but it usful for someone deciding between diffrent LCD screens. Reub2000 16:44, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I think "Especially when running at the native resolution, this gives you the sharpest and most stable image." covers that fairly well. Running at non-native resolution is kind of crummy, but usually no worse than you'd get from a CRT. Modern LCD scaling is quite good. One might mention that vision problems are best handled by changing the system's dpi and font settings, allowing for characters with much better shapes. Using a 6x12 font made big on a CRT or scaled up to be 10x20 on an LCD is nowhere near as nice as a real 10x20 font on an LCD. Often these changes are as simple as picking a different theme. AlbertCahalan 17:59, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I have run my own, and my friends' LCDs at lower resolutions, and have definitely experienced scaling problems, that are definitely much worse than those of CRTS. CRT scaling is generally MUCH BETTER than that of an LCD.  --Noogz 10:51, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * One thing I highly want to stress here is that both of you are displaying a highly biased view of your own choice of monitor. When you edit the article, do try to keep in mind a general consumer - weigh up what a normal consumer would use, as normal consumers are who we are targetting.  --Noogz 10:51, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)


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 * Requests for permissions
 * Requests for undeletion

title: Wikibooks:Reading room/Archives


text:
User talk:Bpogi~enwikibooks

Hello and welcome to Wikibooks!

Here are some tips to help you get started:
 * You should sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~.
 * Remember to conduct any editing experiments in the sandbox.
 * If you're a Wikipedian, see Wikibooks for Wikipedians for a primer on how things work here (it's a little different).
 * If you want to base your work here on materials from Wikipedia, please use WB:RFI to bring the material over in compliance with the GFDL.
 * If you're an instructor and plan on using wikibooks for a class project, see Guidelines for class projects
 * Please say hello at the Staff Lounge with any questions or ideas.
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Please take a look at Naming policy before starting a new book.
 * Remember to maintain a Neutral point of view.
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and have fun!

You will find more resources in Community Portal. If you want to ask a question, visit the Study help desk, the Staff lounge, IRC channel or ask me personally on my talk page. For site news, see the Bulletin board. It might be an idea if you add this page to your "watchlist" so that you can see when any new information is posted there.

Good luck! -- Herby talk thyme 08:04, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Bpogi. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Bpogi~enwikibooks that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 22:59, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 04:42, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Bpogi~enwikibooks


text:
User talk:Paul James

Hello and welcome to Wikibooks!
Here are some tips to help you get started:
 * You should sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~.
 * Remember to conduct any editing experiments in the sandbox.
 * If you're a Wikipedian, see Wikibooks for Wikipedians for a primer on how things work here (it's a little different).
 * If you want to base your work here on materials from Wikipedia, please use WB:RFI to bring the material over in compliance with the GFDL.
 * If you're an instructor and plan on using wikibooks for a class project, see Guidelines for class projects
 * Please say hello at the Staff Lounge with any questions or ideas.
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Please take a look at Naming policy before starting a new book.
 * Remember to maintain a Neutral point of view.
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and have fun!

You will find more resources in Community Portal. If you want to ask a question, visit the Study help desk, the Staff lounge, IRC channel or ask me personally on my talk page. For site news, see the Bulletin board. It might be an idea if you add this page to your "watchlist" so that you can see when any new information is posted there.

Good luck! -- Herby talk thyme 08:05, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Enthnomedicine
Hi - I'm guessing as an original contributor to this you may be interested in looking at the comments (constructive ones!) made on the VfD page for your book. Certainly there are some issues there that you should be aware of and maybe they will help to improve the book and the grades Votes_for_deletion - regards -- Herby talk thyme 08:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

The VfD did offer some good ideas, disclaimer etc. The book should probably be divided up into sections. There has been an increase in references and a re-framing of the intended use. A learning experience all around. --Paul James 08:38, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

 * That is great - there was no way it should have been deleted but some of the comments looked useful - regards -- Herby talk thyme 08:40, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Pilgrimage
I have had difficulties with all the coding and steps. Thank you for your help editing.

I have added my content but forgot to not it in the summary section when i submitted. I hope that you look to my contributions page as a proof that I did indeed contribute. Thank you! talk

Abbreviations
Hi, IMO = in my opinion, sorry about the confusion! I probably shouldn't use abbreviations like that but that one slipped. Have a good day! Regards, Mattb112885 (talk) 15:21, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Cultural Anthropology
Hi Paul James,

Just in case you hadn't noticed, I wanted to bring a comment I left at Talk:Cultural Anthropology to your attention. Happy editing! --Swift (talk) 23:08, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Effective Student Organization
new class project May - June 2009 --Paul James (talk) 23:04, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Editor and Approval of Revisions
Hello, I've replied to your question on Swift's talk page. Unusual? Quite TalkQu 22:59, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

I am not happy with the gestures, haptics and sports section of the symbolism and communication, but i can't find the talk for the students who wrote the sections. in general I feel that it gets off topic, and might be a little inappropriate, so I will edit it a little. Malina

Re: Ticker
Hello Paul, The ticker was an attempt by me to get page hit data about wikibooks posted here on the wiki. I wrote a bot to scrape data from an external hit counter website and post the results on that wiki page. The hit counter website I was using has since gone offline and the source code to my bot has been lost to the sands of time. The best source for hitcount data is now located here: http://wikistics.falsikon.de/latest/wikibooks/en/. I have no plans to try and update the ticker using this new website, however. --Whiteknight (Page) (Talk) 20:03, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Question
How final is the work Cultural Anthropology, is it a class project that is still ongoing ? I have taken notice of the section relating to Cultural Anthropology/Human Rights, and I strongly disagree with the view point expressed there (as expressed in my post at Talk:Cultural Anthropology/Human Rights). --Panic (discuss • contribs) 18:13, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Hi Panic the book still needs significant editing and I have not had students work on it for about a year. I agree with your concern over the lack of clarity of the cultural imperialism paragraphs but at the same time I am not sure what you are proposing as an alternative.

Cultural imperialism occurs when one, often more powerful, culture imposes itself on another culture. It is tied to theories of ethnocentrism, power and hegemony and is somewhat important in an introduction to cultural anthropology. If you want to learn more maybe check out the google books page for Tomlinson, J., 2001. Cultural imperialism: a critical introduction, Continuum International Publishing Group. p22 He puts together a compelling argument about cultural imperialism as it relates to Western media imperialism. To understand how it relates to globalization check out Kearney, M., 1995. The Local and the Global: The Anthropology of Globalization and Transnationalism. Annual Review of Anthropology, 24, pp.547-565. http://www.uam-antropologia.info/texto_kerney.pdf

Feel free to give a shot at improving any of the book just try and back it up with citations from recent anthropological literature. --Paul James (discuss • contribs) 20:26, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Paul James


text:
English Grammar/Basic Parts of Speech/Conjunctions

A conjunction is a word or words used to show the relationship between one notion and another notion. There are two main types of conjunction: the coordinative conjunction, which joins phrases of equal importance and rank, and the subordinative conjunction, which joins a phrase with another phrase that is dependent on it.

Coordinative Conjunctions
A coordinative conjunction joins two sentences together that do not rely on each other for meaning. We can split the coordinative conjunctions into four smaller groups: the cumulative, the alternative, the adversative, and the illative.

Cumulative
A cumulative conjunction is used to add one thought to another. Examples of cumulative conjunctions include
 * and
 * both...and
 * not only
 * but also
 * as well as

Alternative
Used to indicate a choice between one notion and another. For example:
 * or
 * either...or
 * else
 * otherwise
 * neither...nor

Adversative
Used to contrast one notion and another.
 * but
 * yet
 * however
 * nonetheless
 * despite
 * still

Illative
These show that one notion is implied, inferred or proved by another.
 * then
 * thus
 * therefore
 * so
 * for

Subordinating conjunctions
Subordinating conjunctions express relationships of time, manner, cause or reason, comparison, condition, or purpose. They are used to introduce subordinate clauses that are not complete


text:
French/Lessons/Rêveries du promeneur solitaire

Vous retrouverez le texte entier des Rêveries du promeneur solitaire sur Wikisource. Me voici donc seul sur la terre, n'ayant plus de frère, de prochain, d'ami, de société que moi-même. Le plus sociable et le plus aimant des humains en a été proscrit. Par un accord unanime ils ont cherché dans les raffinements de leur haine quel tourment pouvait être le plus cruel à mon âme sensible, et ils ont brisé violemment tous les liens qui m'attachaient à eux. J'aurais aimé les hommes en dépit d'eux-mêmes. Ils n'ont pu qu'en cessant de l'être se dérober à mon affection. Les voilà donc étrangers, inconnus, nuls enfin pour moi puisqu'ils l'ont voulu. Mais moi, détaché d'eux et de tout, que suis-je moi-même ? Voilà ce qui me reste à chercher. Malheureusement cette recherche doit être précédée d'un coup d'œil sur ma position. C'est une idée par laquelle il faut nécessairement que je passe pour arriver d'eux à moi.


text:
Wikibooks:Collaboration of the Month/March 2007 voting

I nominate GIMP book, modern automotive repair (if there is such a book or similar book), Blender Noob to Pro (EVERYTHING can always be improved, right?), a book on learning piano, a book on business, or a book on construction, or engineering. --Remi 09:21, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


text:
CAT-Tools/DéjàVu X/Project Interface

 * A new entry in the context menu that appears after right-clicking on a file in the File Navigator: Open. Obviously, the Open function should open the selected file. (I know this is essentially the same as simply double-clicking the file, but I thought adding this entry to the context menu may improve GUI logic) (Rob Laumen)
 * A new entry in the context menu that appears after right-clicking on a file in the File Navigator: Export to External View. (Rob Laumen)
 * A new entry in the context menu that appears after right-clicking on a file in the File Navigator: Import from External View. (Rob Laumen)
 * Intelligent drag and drop in target cells - by which is meant that the function should ignore codes as well. (Paul Cowan)
 * Being able to create new projects without using the mouse (i.e. ensuring that all commands have accelerator keys) (Lorenzo Martinelli)
 * Highlighting of (source/target) filter string after performing a Filter On Selection operation. (Rob Laumen)
 * DownArrow alone in grid editing mode should never go to next row. (Gudmund Areskoug)
 * More predictable results when moving cursor around in rows. i.e., in a multi-line row, when the cursor is after the space at the end of the line before last, when pressing Down arrow, the cursor should jump to the last line in the same row, and not to the next row. Similarly, when the cursor is after the space at the end of the first line in a multi-line row, when pressing Up arrow, the cursor should jump to the previous row, and not get stuck as it is now. (Alessandra Muzzi)
 * Retain original locked vertical scrolling position when returning/unfiltering after filter on selection. (Gudmund Areskoug)
 * Give the status and indications column of the translation grid a pop-up menu of its own, and move corresponding menu entries there from the other grid popups, e. g. status indication, comments etc. (Gudmund Areskoug)
 * If cursor is in the source cell when term pair is sent to TDB, return cursor to the target cell. (Hans Leander)
 * In a project, an option to set a "fake" bottom of the window at any row in the actual window, so that one would always be able to see a number of rows below the one in which one is working. (Hans Leander)
 * GUI: Smart selecting with mouse (dragging over words) (??)
 * GUI: Smart cut and paste (adding and removing spaces and managing punctuation) - by which is meant that the function should ignore codes as well. (Paul Cowan)
 * GUI: Delete from cursor position to end of segment (with code-handling) (??)
 * GUI: Place the cursor in the target box (split edit area) after ctrl+a, ctrl+down, alt+down, F5, Join and Split, shift+f11. (??)
 * GUI: Allow single tab to go from target box to source box (split edit area) and back (??)
 * "Rearrange Windows" function offering several layout options, similar to the function offered by DV3 (Herbert Eppel)
 * F2 to edit segments in alignment and project windows. (Johan Kok)
 * GUI: Having the options "Close all open files" and "Close all open files except this" when you right-click on the name of an individual file or the project file in the grey bar underneath the working grid. (Dave Turner / Rob Laumen)
 * Project: In the project "File Navigator window" select which files to open using Ctrl and Shft. (Johan Kok)
 * Keyboard shorcut for sending term pairs straight to TDB without context and promptings, but including client, subject and perhaps project info. (Gudmund Areskoug)
 * Alignment project: Alignment project is not one of "All Déjà vu X files" file extensions when selecting File Open. (Johan Kok)
 * An indication in the Autosearch Sentences window (possibly background colour) of source text i.e. so that it is immediately clear which of the two elements in the 'sentence found' pair is the source and which is the target. This would be nice too in "Portions found, but less crucial imho. (Jeroen Vanlaer - Sophronius).
 * configurable colour- or other attribute settings for stuff from MDB, from TDB, from Lexicon, copied from source or, most important, for typed text. That way you can first edit the whole sentence for correct context, and then check if something must still be sent to a TDB/TM/Lexicon (Leo te Braake)
 * A way to see the FileID of the files. Not in Access, but e.g. in File Navigator. A print of the files and their path would be the easiest to use AND to implement. Meant for reference in filtering on more than one file using SQL, when the file structure is complicated. (Leo te Braake)
 * Wysiwyg for bold, underline and italics (like MemoQ!). (Dave Turner)
 * Highlight the portions in the grid (grey background?) corresponding to the portions in AutoSearch used for (Auto)Assemble. (Dave Turner)
 * Display such terms as a tool-tip (whole term and its component words to reflect mouse pointer position). (Dave Turner)
 * Insertion of tool-tip terms in target by a double click. (Dave Turner)
 * Reduce AutoSearch clutter by not displaying terms duplicated in the TDB, MDB and/or lexicon and not displaying fuzzy portions when exact portion found. (Dave Turner)
 * Option to open the exported file (Walter Weyne)
 * Provide a command to jump to the next row meeting a specified condition. E.g. You want to step through all rows with comments in a project, but still be able to see neighboring rows, so you don't want to use the row selector, but rather jump from one row to the next like you do with bookmarks. Ideally, there should be a new command under Edit, i.e. Go to..., and then the same selection of rows as in the row selector (SQL included). Once you select a type of row there, you are then able to jump to that type of row by using a single keyboard shortcut (always the same shortcut for any row type selected). (Alessandra Muzzi)
 * After clicking on a AutoSearch portion to insert a term or phrase, the cursor should return to the target cell after the insertion, plus one space to resume typing directly or insert another term. At present it stays in the AutoSearch box. (Dave Turner)
 * Insert a space automatically after a portion inserted in target using control+1, control+2, etc. to allow several terms to be inserted without having to press the space bar in between. (Dave Turner)
 * Strip (filter out) leading and trailing white spaces from segments and provide a white space management option to insert single spaces between sentences if source double-spaced, and vice versa. (David Turner)

title: CAT-Tools/DéjàVu X/Project Interface


text:
User talk:Unnikrishnan Vijayan

Hello and welcome to Wikibooks!

Here are some tips to help you get started:
 * You should sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~.
 * Remember to conduct any editing experiments in the sandbox.
 * If you're a Wikipedian, see Wikibooks for Wikipedians for a primer on how things work here (it's a little different).
 * If you want to base your work here on materials from Wikipedia, please use WB:RFI to bring the material over in compliance with the GFDL.
 * If you're an instructor and plan on using wikibooks for a class project, see Guidelines for class projects
 * Please say hello at the Staff Lounge with any questions or ideas.
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Please take a look at Naming policy before starting a new book.
 * Remember to maintain a Neutral point of view.
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and have fun!

You will find more resources in Community Portal. If you want to ask a question, visit the Study help desk, the Staff lounge, IRC channel or ask me personally on my talk page. For site news, see the Bulletin board. It might be an idea if you add this page to your "watchlist" so that you can see when any new information is posted there.

Good luck! Mattb112885 13:30, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Invitation of a Wikibook study
Hi Unnikrishnan Vijayan,

I read your Wikijunior Bug book. I'm very impressed and interested to know more about your experience related to this particular book project (Wikijunior Bug) I'm current a doctoral student at Indiana University (US). My advisor and I, we are starting a Wikibook study regarding to online authors' beliefs and perceptions (motivation to write a Wikibook, beliefs about the knowledge of the topic, previous experience and success in writing a Wikibook, and ability to help coordinate the Wikibook project and interact with other authors).

We would love to invite you to participate in this study. If you agree to participate, please leave me a message or send me an email. (My email is cl17@indiana.edu.) We'll send 14 open-ended questions by email (email interview). Your input to this study will be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much again. Inkeys

title: User talk:Unnikrishnan Vijayan


text:
User talk:Thebhgg

Hello and welcome to Wikibooks!

Here are some tips to help you get started:
 * You should sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~.
 * Remember to conduct any editing experiments in the sandbox.
 * If you're a Wikipedian, see Wikibooks for Wikipedians for a primer on how things work here (it's a little different).
 * If you want to base your work here on materials from Wikipedia, please use WB:RFI to bring the material over in compliance with the GFDL.
 * If you're an instructor and plan on using wikibooks for a class project, see Guidelines for class projects
 * Please say hello at the Staff Lounge with any questions or ideas.
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Please take a look at Naming policy before starting a new book.
 * Remember to maintain a Neutral point of view.
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and have fun!

You will find more resources in Community Portal. If you want to ask a question, visit the Study help desk, the Staff lounge, IRC channel or ask me personally on my talk page. For site news, see the Bulletin board. It might be an idea if you add this page to your "watchlist" so that you can see when any new information is posted there.

Good luck! Mattb112885 13:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I love the nickname
Enjoy your time here! Cheers -- Herby talk thyme 14:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:Thebhgg


text:
User talk:Almuzzi

Hello and welcome to Wikibooks!

Here are some tips to help you get started:
 * You should sign your name on Talk and vote pages using four tildes, like this: ~~~~.
 * Remember to conduct any editing experiments in the sandbox.
 * If you're a Wikipedian, see Wikibooks for Wikipedians for a primer on how things work here (it's a little different).
 * If you want to base your work here on materials from Wikipedia, please use WB:RFI to bring the material over in compliance with the GFDL.
 * If you're an instructor and plan on using wikibooks for a class project, see Guidelines for class projects
 * Please say hello at the Staff Lounge with any questions or ideas.
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Please take a look at Naming policy before starting a new book.
 * Remember to maintain a Neutral point of view.
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and have fun!

You will find more resources in Community Portal. If you want to ask a question, visit the Study help desk, the Staff lounge, IRC channel or ask me personally on my talk page. For site news, see the Bulletin board. It might be an idea if you add this page to your "watchlist" so that you can see when any new information is posted there.

Good luck! Mattb112885 13:31, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:Almuzzi


text:
Wikibooks:Requests for deletion/Essence of programming

Essence of programming
Very little content, no progress since October 2006. Generally, I think that this book is very vague, from the title to its goals: "But I feel many who claim who are programmers, are not programmers. (...) This book is to train any person (including non programmers) to become programmers". I'm afraid the book was ment to be more a personal essay than a book based on sources and maintaining NPOV. As there is not much written in this book, deleting it won't be a big loss. --Derbeth talk 16:56, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Delete - very little real content at all -- Herby talk thyme 17:06, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - sounds like a book on programming written by a project manager. Oh, wait, it is! Webaware talk 23:06, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * While I am not opposed to wikibooks written in a more personal style, I think that they require a more significant amount of dedication in order to finish them such that they can be useful. This book in its current state is not useful for two reason: There is little pertinent information that would aid a student of programming or anyone interested in programming; and a potential contributor may or may not share the same sentiments as the founder of the book, and thus would be forced to disregard the content or totally rewrite it. Thus I argue that the text should be deleted. --Iamunknown 23:21, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - I too am not opposed to Wikibooks being written in a personal tone. However, when a personal style of writing is used the author should be careful as to not state any opinions as facts.  This particular Wikibook rides the line in that sense.  Apart from the style of writing though, this Wikibook does not contain much content what-so-ever. --BHensley talk 16:32, February 14, 2007
 * Delete. Nice intentions, but I agree with Bhensley - the introductory paragraph feels like I'm listening to someone unfurl a yarn of a story by a fireside: "now there are programmers, but a lot of them ain't really programmers, and I tell you most people wouldn't know one if they saw one, a real programmer worth his salt has..." But seriously, for a minute: a heavily convivial or opinionated tone alone isn't on its own justification for deletion,  but that combined with lack of content, direction, the gigantic scope of the book, and the pre-existence of multiple books on programming, I don't see what purpose this is serving. -- Monk talk 04:13, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Delete. Nearly as much effort went into listing the author's contact information as went into the rest of the "book". There just isn't anything here except some scribbled notes. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 00:02, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


text:
CAT-Tools/MemoQ/FAQ

Does MemoQ run on Vista?
Yes, MemoQ 2.0 and later is a .NET based application and will run just fine under any Windows version provided that the .NET Framework 2.0 is installed.

Does MemoQ run on MacOS X?
Yes, you can safely run MemoQ (all versions) using the Parallels Desktop for Mac on all new Intel-based Macs. Note that you can also run it on a virtual machine (using VMWare, Virtual PC, Xen or any other virtualization solution) under almost any OS, as the activation feature doesn't require any dongle.

Does MemoQ run on GNU/Linux?
Not directly, but you can run it in a virtual machine.

I get an "access denied" message on Vista Home, what do I need to do?
While MemoQ works fine with all versions of Windows Vista, there is a known installer issue under Vista Home. If you receive an "access denied" type of error message when registering or creating a translation memory or a term base, follow the steps below.

First, make hidden and protected files visible:

 * 1) Log on to Windows as an administrator.
 * 2) Open Control Panel.
 * 3) Switch to Classic view (click the link at the top left).
 * 4) Double-click the Folder Options icon, then, on the Folder Options dialog box, click the View tab.
 * 5) Find and click (select) the "Show hidden files and folders" radio button. Do not click OK or Apply.
 * 6) Find and clear (unselect) the "Hide protected operating system files" check box. When Windows asks for confirmation, click Yes.
 * 7) Click OK.

Second, set appropriate permissions for the MemoQ folder under All Users:

 * 1) Click the Start button, then, in the Start menu, click Computer.
 * 2) Double-click Drive C.
 * 3) Double-click the Users, and then the All Users folder.
 * 4) Right-click the MemoQ folder, then choose Properties from the shortcut menu.
 * 5) In the MemoQ Properties dialog box, click the Security folder.
 * 6) Under the Group or user names list (towards the middle of the dialog box), click Edit.
 * 7) When Windows asks for confirmation, click Continue. (It does not ask on every configuration.)
 * 8) In the Permissions for MemoQ dialog box, on the Group or user names list, click the Users item.
 * 9) In the Permissions for Users list (at the bottom of the dialog box), under Allow, select the first check box (next to Full Control).
 * 10) Click Apply, then OK.
 * 11) In the MemoQ Properties dialog box, click OK.
 * 12) Close the folder window.

Now you can start MemoQ and check if the problem has been resolved.

Is MemoQ capable of translating documents of format X?
Probably, if the file format is XML based. You need to create an XML format configuration for the file format, and use this configuration to import any document of the same type. This involves getting familiar with the basics of XML: elements, tags, attributes, etc.

MemoQ does not import my PowerPoint presentation
Most of the time, this happens when PowerPoint 2007 is installed. Actually, this problem is not file format related: the same PPT file would probably import if PowerPoint 2003 or 2000 was installed on the same machine instead of the 2007 version. The reason is that MemoQ needs to interoperate with PowerPoint when importing the document, and the methods of this interoperation have changed significantly with PowerPoint 2007. Since MemoQ 3.5, PowerPoint 2007 is supported through the XML based PPTX format. PPTX is directly supported by MemoQ, not requiring Microsoft Office to be installed. If your machine has PowerPoint 2007 installed, and you receive a PPT file for translation, you can save the file as PPTX in PowerPoint, or have MemoQ process it as PPTX after clicking "Add document as".

If review mode is activated in a PPT file, MemoQ won't import it

 * Open the file in PowerPoint
 * Change anything in the file - to make the change invisible you should add a space somewhere
 * Save the file in PowerPoint, and when the review dialog appears, click No
 * Import the file in MemoQ

Does MemoQ handle the new Word 2007 docx format?
Full support isn't official yet, but you can safely rename your docx document into .zip, as you will notice, the actual content is stored into XML files: the DOCX format is very close to the now standard ODF (Open Document Format), and MemoQ does support XML files.

I've been sent a TTX file (TagEditor), will I be able to translate it using MemoQ?
If you want to work with file formats supported by SDL Trados but not supported by MemoQ, you can do that through TagEditor's native format, TTX. However, to enable SDL Trados to export the file back to the original format you have to pre-segment the file and work on an already segmented TTX file.

To pre-segment the file you need to do the following:

 * Open SDL Trados Translator's Workbench
 * Create an empty translation memory by choosing File/New. Click Create, and give a name to the translation memory
 * Click Tools/Translate
 * In the Translate Files dialog box, enable the Segment unknown sentences check box
 * Add the files you want to segment by clicking Add...
 * Click Translate

Now import the pre-segmented TTX files into MemoQ, and you can start working.

Note: MemoQ 2.1 and later have full TTX support, but there is a workaround method to work on TTX files using MemoQ 2.0. For more info, see the Working with TTX files using MemoQ 2.0 - alternate workflow in the Tips and Tricks chapter.

My Trados-compatible bilingual DOC/RTF document does not import
A likely cause is that the document contains footnotes, which are currently not supported by MemoQ for bilingual DOC/RTF. A possible workaround is to temporarily remove footnotes, footnote markers, and the surrounding subsegment markers (purple markers like {1> and <1} inside segments) from the document before importing to MemoQ. Make sure you remove these items from both the (hidden) source segments and the target segments. This way, footnotes can be translated separately, and restored at the original location after the translated document has been exported by MemoQ.

You can quickly find the footnotes by opening the document in Microsoft Word, starting a search, and typing ^f in the Find what box. This will take you to the next footnote mark. If you delete the mark on both sides, the footnote itself will be deleted as well.

Markus Henseler also created a Word macro that may help you get around this issue. The macro works by pre-processing documents to make them suitable for importing into MemoQ and restoring their original format after translation. The macro can be found in the Files section of the Yahoo! Groups mailing list for MemoQ:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MemoQ/files/

External cross-references in MIF files do not work after export
When translation is complete, the cross-references to external files need to be updated in FrameMaker. Do the following:

 * When you have exported your translated .MIF files, save all of them as .FM files in FrameMaker. Be sure to use the original filenames used when the FM files were created, because cross-references are based on the filenames, and FrameMaker will not find the referenced files if their filenames have been changed.
 * Open all of these FM files in FrameMaker.
 * After this, in the Edit menu, click Update references. Check the All cross references checkbox. Click the Update button.

Note: For this cross-reference update to work, the translated FM files have to be in the same positions (relative to each other) as before translation. E.g. if all of the files were in the c:\work\source directory originally, you can put them in the c:\work\translation directory. But if some of them originally resided in a sufolder, like the c:\work\source\other directory, put their translated versions in the c:\work\translation\other directory.

I get an error installing MemoQ 2.0 over MemoQ 1.0
The error is: ''Exception occurred while initializing the installation: System. BadImage Format Exception: The Format of the File 'MemoQLiteSetup.CustomInstaller.dll' is invalid.”''

This is because of a conflict between the different versions of the .NET Framework. The procedure below is guaranteed to work:

 * 1) Uninstall MemoQ 1.0 manually (under Control Panel / Add/Remove Programs)
 * 2) Install the .NET Framework 2.0 (run dotnetfx.exe included in the ZIP file of the MemoQ 2.0 installer)
 * 3) Install MemoQ 2.0 (run setup.exe)

Can I use MemoQ on multiple computers?
Yes. See Using MemoQ on a different computer in the Activation chapter.

How can I change my serial number if I typed the wrong one?
See Changing the serial number in the Activation chapter.

How can I manually remove MemoQ from my computer?
Note: This information applies to MemoQ version 2.3 and the Windows Vista operating system.

If the installation fails when you try upgrading or updating your copy of MemoQ, or uninstallation fails when you attempt to remove MemoQ from your computer, you can remove MemoQ manually by following the steps below:

Important: This procedure will not harm your data (projects, documents, translation memories, term bases or settings). Your activation data (licenses) will also remain intact.

 * 1) Log on to your computer as an administrator.
 * 2) Open the Start menu (click the Start button), then type C:\Program Files\Kilgray in the search box at the bottom of the menu, then press Enter. Windows will display the folder where the Kilgray applications are installed.  In this folder window, you should see a MemoQ folder icon.
 * 3) To delete the MemoQ folder, click the MemoQ folder icon, then press the Shift+Delete key shortcut.
 * 4) In most cases, Windows Vista will display the User Account Control (UAC) dialog box. You need to confirm that you are indeed an administrator, and that you really want to remove the folder. You will need to click Yes, then Continue to delete the folder.
 * 5) Once the folder is deleted, you need to remove the MemoQ-related entries from the Windows registry (the database where all configuration data are stored). Click the Start button to open the Start menu, then, in the search box at the bottom, type ’regedit’, then press Enter.
 * 6) Before starting the program, Windows displays the User Account Control dialog box again. Here, you need to click Continue to confirm that you want to start the program. Then the Registry Editor program will start.
 * 7) Press the Home key to move to the top of the list of registry keys.  Double-click the following key names to get to MemoQ’s configuration: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, SOFTWARE. When you click a key name, a new list of keys will appear below it. If a list of keys are already there, you do not need to double-click the key name.
 * 8) You should now see  a list of keys with the name ’Kilgray’ included. If you do not see the ’Kilgray’ name, scroll down to make it visible. Click the ’Kilgray’ key name, then press the Delete key to delete it.
 * 9) Then, you need to go to the following key (double-click each name as they appear): HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE, SOFTWARE, Microsoft, Windows, CurrentVersion, Uninstall. Below the ’Uninstall’ key name, a list of numbers in curly brackets should appear.
 * 10) Press the Ctrl+F key shortcut to search for a word in the registry. The Find dialog box appears. In the Find what box, type ’MemoQ’. Make sure that the Keys, Values and the Data check boxes are all turned on.
 * 11) Click Find Next button to perform the search. When ready, the Registry Editor displays a list of data with ’DisplayName: MemoQ’ included.
 * 12) Press the Tab key to highlight the name of the key where this list of data appeared. Press the Delete key to delete it.
 * 13) MemoQ is now removed from your computer. When you open Control Panel, and go to Programs and Features, it should no longer be listed. Now you should be able to install a new version or new copy of MemoQ.

I get error 2869 when I attempt installing MemoQ on Windows Vista
Note: This information applies to MemoQ version 2.3 and Windows Vista (Home Editions)

 * 1) Log on to your computer as an administrator.
 * 2) Download the MemoQ installation package and save it to a folder of your choice. The default folder for downloading programs is Public Downloads (C:\Users\Public\Downloads). Further on, we will assume that you download the MemoQ installation package into this folder.
 * 3) Unzip the MemoQ installation package (right-click the icon of the zip file, then choose Extract all) using the default settings (click Next or Finish in every wizard page).
 * 4) Click the Start button, then All Programs, then Accessories. Under Accessories, find the Command Prompt item. Right-click Command Prompt, then choose Run as administrator from the pop-up menu.
 * 5) The User Account Control dialog box appears. Click Continue to open the command prompt.
 * 6) In the command prompt window, type cd \Users\Public\Downloads\MemoQSetup.2.3.nn where nn is the last number of the version number of MemoQ; then press Enter. If you have downloaded the setup package as MemoQSetup.2.3.zip, you do not have to type this number.
 * 7) Again, in the command prompt window, type msiexec /i "MemoQSetup.msi", then press Enter. The MemoQ setup program starts. Use the wizard to install MemoQ with the normal procedure.
 * 8) The installation might still fail with Error 2869. In that case, type msiexec /a "MemoQSetup.msi", then press Enter. The MemoQ Setup program starts again, and performs a normal installation, reporting that a network package has been created.
 * 9) MemoQ is installed now, but the necessary permissions are not set on the computer. Follow the procedure under I get an "access denied" message on Vista Home, what do I need to do? to set these permissions.

IMPORTANT: This information does not apply to version 3.0 and up because these versions have a new setup program that solves the above problems.

When re-starting the computer, the MemoQ Server does not start
Sometimes you get an error message when restarting the computer that hosts a MemoQ Server. The cause of the problem is that SQL Server takes more time to start up than the MemoQ Server, and the MemoQ Server does not wait for it – instead, it reports an error and stops. It is an annoyance to have to start MemoQ Server manually every time, so here is a workaround:
 * 1) Start the Services console: the easiest way is to go to Start -> Run, then type "services.msc", then press Enter. In Vista, you simply open the Start menu, and type "services.msc" in the search bar at the bottom.
 * 2) The Services console appears. In the list, find the service called "MemoQ server service". Right-click the service name, then choose Properties. (BTW if you left-click the service name, and then click the Play button at the top of the window (in the toolbar), that will start the service right away.)
 * 3) In the MemoQ Server service Properties dialog box, click the Recovery tab (the third from the left).  Then, set the First failure, Second failure, and Subsequent failures drop-down lists to Restart the Service. Then click OK.

Interoperability
Kilgray is committed to open standards and interoperability. MemoQ does not entail the use of any proprietary files specific to the tool, and memoQ can work with many file formats standard to the translation industry and common office software tools. With memoQ, it does not matter what translation environments or CAT software clients or collaborators use, one can exchange databases and files, take jobs to be treated or delivered in another tool, and share work with translators using other tools.

Microsoft Office 2007 and Office versions below 2000
To understand some of the potential issues with Office 2007, one must understand how MemoQ interoperates with Office. When working with Office formats (importing documents) or using the Office spell-checker, MemoQ delegates some tasks to the Office applications. When an Office document is imported into MemoQ, MemoQ launches a hidden instance of Word, PowerPoint or Excel to support the import process. Similarly, using the Office spell-checker inside MemoQ launches a hidden instance of Word. Because of this, the version of Office installed on the MemoQ user's computer is just as important as the version of the Office document. The section below describes compatibility with versions of Office installed on the user's computer (as opposed to the version of the Office document to be imported).

Versions of Office earlier than Office 2000 SR2 are not supported. Office 2007 is partially supported: there are some compatibility issues with Word 2007 (see below). PowerPoint 2007 is not supported. There are no known issues with Excel 2007.

Description
With Word 2007, a new template format was introduced. The new template type is called a macro-enabled template and has the .dotm file extension. Some applications like SDL Trados install macro-enabled templates into the Office Startup directory, causing the templates to load every time Word is launched. The issue with these new templates is that when a second instance of Word is started, the templates cause file access problems. Normally, this only means that a dialog is displayed to the user, who needs to accept that Word will open the template as read-only. However, if the Word instance runs hidden (as in the case when a Word document is imported into MemoQ or the office spell-cheker is used in MemoQ), this dialog can remain hidden as well, preventing MemoQ from finishing. Recent versions of MemoQ (3.0.31 or later) deal with this by making the hidden Word window temporarily visible. This way, the user can let the import process finish by switching to the Word window and accepting that the template will be opened as read-only. On the other hand, this may not always work correctly for spell-checking: MemoQ currently might have issues starting Office 2007 for spell-checking if an active macro-enabled template is in the Startup folder of Word (that is, automatically started with Word). This does not affect the new alternate spell-checker of MemoQ 3.0: the new Hunspell spell-checker works independent of Office. If you are having problems with the Office spell-checker, switching to the alternate spell-checker is recommended. See the MemoQ help for more information.

Resolution
A possible workaround for any such template-related problem or annoyance is to delete the templates from the Word Startup folder, and load them only when they are actually needed. By default, the Startup folder resides at one of the following locations:

Windows Vista : c:\Users\[your username]\AppData\Roaming\Microsoft\Word\STARTUP

Microsoft Windows Server 2003 or Microsoft Windows XP: c:\Documents and Settings\[your username]\Application Data\Microsoft\Word\STARTUP

If the location of the Startup folder has changed, you can find it by doing the following:

 * 1) Click the Microsoft Office Button, and then click Word Options.
 * 2) Click Advanced.
 * 3) Under General, click File Locations. The path to the Startup folder is displayed in the list. (If the path is too long and thus only partially displayed, select the Startup item and click Modify. In the dialog that appears, the Startup folder will be highlighted in the Folders list. Right-click the folder, and click Properties. The full path will be displayed. Note the path and Click Cancel to exit the dialog.)

To stop the templates from automatically loading with Word, locate the template files (files with .dotm extension) inside the Startup folder, and move them to another folder. After this, MemoQ should have no problems interoperating with Word 2007. If you need the templates to automatically load again, move them back into the Startup folder.

To load the templates manually when you need them, do the following:

 * 1) In Word, click the Office button.
 * 2) Click the Word Options button.
 * 3) Choose the Add-Ins category.
 * 4) In the Manage list at the bottom of the window, choose Word add-ins. Click the Go button.
 * 5) If the template you need is not on the list of loaded items, click the Add button. Locate the template file and click OK (or in Vista, Open). Now your template is loaded and ready to use. Click OK.

Virtual desktop software
When using virtual desktop software like VirtuaWin, desktop switching can cause dialogs of MemoQ to close without warning. Fortunately, there is a workaround for recent versions of VirtuaWin.

 * 1) Open the file tricky.cfg contained in the VirtuaWin settings folder: [user profile]\Application Data\VirtuaWin.
 * 2) Add this line: cr:WindowsForms10.*
 * 3) Restart VirtuaWin.

This will cause VirtuaWin to handle MemoQ dialogs differently, avoiding the problem of abruptly closed dialogs. It is not yet known whether similar fixes are possible for other virtual desktop managers like Microsoft Virtual Desktop Manager.

Can I spell-check my translations in MemoQ?
Yes. MemoQ uses the spell checker of Microsoft Office for this in the background. If you are using a language version of Microsoft Office 2000 that does not provide built-in support for the language you are translating into, you can simply copy the required files and Office will support that language as well. However, this is not enough when you try to use MemoQ spell checking. Because Microsoft Office does not automatically install some elements, you need the original installation CD to proceed.

This is not an issue with Microsoft Office 2003 or newer.

Central/Eastern European characters get corrupted
Some users have experienced the following issue. When they confirm a translated segment, some of the Central/Eastern European diacritical characters get corrupt. For example, in Czech "ř" changes to "ø", "č" changes to "è". This happens on computers that ever had an early version of Trados installed (any version before 6.5). Uninstalling or updating Trados does not solve the problem. Trados used to have a problem with displaying special characters of Central/Eastern European languages. For a long time, Trados did not issue a fix for this problem, but advised their users to work around it by changing a setting in the registry. This made the problem go away in Trados, but it is still causing problems in other applications like MemoQ. The solution is to change this registry setting back to the original value.

1. From the Start menu, select Run.

2. Type in "regedit" (as shown, without the quotes). The Registry Editor opens.

3. Locate the following key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Nls\CodePage

4. In this key, highlight the string 1252 (on the right-hand side in the registry editor).

5. Right-click on the string, and select Modify.

6. In the Edit String dialog, check Value Data. If it is set to anything other than c_1252.nls, change it to c_1252.nls. This is the original Windows setting before the Trados workaround.

7. Click OK to accept the change, and exit the Registry Editor.

8. Restart the system.

Can I make spaces and other special characters visible?
Yes, this is possible by using a special font for editing your translations in MemoQ. For details, see Showing spaces and other special characters in the Tips and Tricks chapter.

Can I reorder or omit tags (codes) in my translation?
No, that is not possible. The way {tags} work in MemoQ is, they stand for something that constitutes the structure of the original document (the "skeleton"). Without that skeleton, there is simply no way MemoQ can restore a correct document at export. Not copying tags and allowing export would simply result in a file with DOC extension (for Word DOC's) that can do one thing: crash Word when you open them...

However, Word documents will sometimes show tags that clearly do not stand for anything sensible (especially if the DOC was created from a PDF file). Such tags are also called rogue codes. For some ideas on how to get rid of them, see Getting rid of codes in Word documents in the Tips and Tricks chapter.

title: CAT-Tools/MemoQ/FAQ


text:
Biblical Studies/New Testament Commentaries/The Gospel of John/Chapter 8

Things to look for in John 8
 * The textual issue of whether the first 11 verses are original and what connection there is between them and the rest of the narrative.
 * The meaning of "I am" on the lips of Jesus, and how (if it represents the divine name) this fits with the emphasis on obedience throughout John in General and in this chapter in particular.

The Woman Caught in Adultery (John 7:59-8:11)
The Pericope de Adultera (or Pericope Adulterae) means "the story of the adulteress". It is the name given to verses 7:53- 8:11 of the Gospel of John in scholarly literature.

It is the story of woman who was either married or was with a married man and the angry mob wanting to stone her in the name of Moses. Jesus tells them that the one without sin may cast the first stone, and since nobody throws a stone, Jesus does not judge her either at this time, but tells her to leave her life of sin. Many people attribute this scene to Mary Magdalene, but there is no evidence to this belief.

The forgiveness of an adulteress is not the kind of thing you would expect the early church to create. The debate about forgiveness was a major one in the 2nd and 3rd CE.[citation needed]

Its purpose was to provide a portrait of Jesus' words in John 8:15, “You judge according to the flesh, but I judge no one”.

This narrative is a reminder that no individual is without sin. We aren’t capable of passing judgment on an individual only God is capable of passing judgment. Jesus ends capital punishment with this story. Each one of us needs the forgiveness of God and we need to forgive the sinner. Forgiveness, not executions, is God's expectation from us.

Jesus was presented with a question designed to trap him -- the Jewish leaders brought to Jesus a woman who had been caught in adultery. They reminded Jesus, that according to the Law a woman should be stoned to death (see Leviticus 20:10; conveniently, the leaders seem to have forgotten that the Law called for the same penalty for the male partner in the adulterous relationship, but interestingly the Pharisees bring only the woman and not the man, which means the man set the woman up to be caught and brought to Jesus.)

This caused a dilemma: If Jesus deferred to the Romans, He discredited Himself as a Teacher of the Law. If he said, "no" he would be going against Mosaic code; if he said, "yes", he condoned the stoning and the Romans would consider him a rioter and arrest him. Either way, they thought, Jesus couldn't win.

Jesus brought to their attention a third option. This option invited his opponents to comply with the ancient codes, but in order for them to do so they themselves had to be without sin and guilt.

Jesus shows in this instance that he knows and understands what he is going up against with the Jewish leaders of his time. When they present Jesus with what they believe is an unwinnable situation for Jesus, he responds to their trap with a wise answer that they did not expect or know how to respond to. By answering their challenge in this way Jesus showed those with him that he had a knowledge and understanding much greater than they could have imagined.

When approached about the interaction with the woman, Jesus confronts the Jewish authorities on their questioning.

Textual Evidence for 7:53-8:11
The first story in this chapter is not found in the two earliest surviving Egyptian papyri (P66 and P75). It is also absent from the two famous 4th century bibles prepared for Ecclesiastical use (apparently by Eusebius for Emperor Constantine), Codex Vaticanus and Sinaiticus.

Most 'modern' translations (produced in the 1960s to 1980s) include the passage but enclose it in brackets, with a note to the effect that it is "not found in the oldest and best manuscripts", or a similar statement.

However, this statement is extremely misleading on its own, since the passage was known to exist in some manuscripts of John long before Codex Vaticanus and Sinaiticus were made (St. Jerome, circa 382 A.D. tells us that he found the passage "in many copies, both Greek and Latin", which shows it was popular long before his time.)

Secondly, although the four oldest manuscripts omit the passage, none of them does so without acknowledging their existence by a set of critical marks in their texts. (see The Top Ten Early MSS for John )

Smith even mentions in his commentary on John that "there is no question it was not a part of the original Gospel. In fact, a few manuscripts place it elsewhere, for example, at the end of the Gospel, or after Luke 21:38" (179).

In one 'ancient' manuscript (12th cent. A.D.) the story even appears in Luke, just after Luke 21:38. This placement does seem more natural and fitting for the story than it's placement in John.

However,this Lukan placement only exists in about a half dozen late manuscripts (Family 13 circa 12th century). It is unlikely that Luke's Gospel was its original place. The story's inclusion in Luke merely reveals that this story has been battled over for centuries.

What should we conclude about John 7:59 – 8:11? Some feel it was not originally a part of this gospel.

Internal Evidence for 7:53-8:11
Although, it does not imply that these verses are fraudulent, these verses interrupt the flow of the Feast of Tabernacles dialogs from v7:52 to 8:12.

However, many scholars (e.g. Bultmann,J.P. Heil, A.W. Wilson, A. Pink) take the opposite view, and find that omitting the verses creates a difficult seam that cannot be original.

Most likely, this was a well circulated story among the first century Christians which was told orally.[citation needed]

Most of the early Christians would not have been able to read Greek or even Aramaic, so everything they knew about Jesus was due to oral tradition. [citation needed]

This story was probably very popular, but it had no home in any of the canonical gospels; this is why later on the scribes decided to begin including it here in John's Gospel. [evidence needed]

Even the language of the story, some scholars have suggested, is closer to that of Luke, but no new work in this area has been done since the early 1900s. For instance, Cadbury(1917)was the last scholar to attempt to assemble a case for Lukan authorship. The current consensus is that there is more evidence generally for later scribes 'standardizing' the text to a general Greek style than there is for the passage being composed by Luke.

"The obviously later insertion of this pericope [in John] makes a certain sense, however, for it provides an episode, an encounter of Jesus with a sinful woman and Jewish authorities, which can be viewed as a springboard for the ensuing discussion," (Smith 179).

John 8:12-59
Jesus, still in the temple area, begins to testify about himself and the one who sent him. Throughout the rest of the chapter Jesus will use the phrase "I am he. He tells the Jews I am he (the Messiah) He tells the Jews in the temple that they are the sons of Satan and they will die in their sins if they don't receive him as the Messiah. They claim that Abraham is their father and Jesus says he rejoice to see the day of Jesus. He is referring to Abraham seeing him prophetically in the future. The Jews misunderstand him and think he is saying he saw Abraham. What he says is I was already in God plan and chosen to be the Messiah before Abraham was born. To be consistent the translators should have translated the line "Before Abraham was I am he". By leaving of the word "he" meaning the  Messiah, they give the impression that Jesus is saying "I am."(John 8:58)

In the 4th Century Jerome mistranslated the conversation between God and Moses where Abraham asks for God's name and he says EHYEH ASHER EHYEH (I will be what I will be Yah is my name. Jerome translated it SUM QUI SUM I am what I am.

Down through the ages commentators have thought God's name was "I AM" and that Jesus was claiming to be God. It is all based on a bad translation. When Jesus said before Abraham was I am he the temple crowd picked-up stones to execute him but Jesus escaped. They were furious for being called sons of the devil and they thought he was now worthy of death for claiming to have seen Abraham and claiming to thousands of years old. Naturally they wanted to kill him for being a false prophet.

An interesting point to consider is Jesus' statement in verse 15b: "I judge no one." This seems like a contradiction to not only later verses in this chapter (such as verse 26), but also in 5:22, where Jesus tells us that the Father gives all judgment to the Son. Later he explains that the words he speaks will judge everyone. That's why you must learn his words and obey them in a loving manner.

Throughout John, there has been quite an emphasis on obedience. After Jesus says "I am he" in verse 28 he says "I do nothing on my own, but I speak these things as the Father has instructed me." If we take "I am" to mean "I am God," then it wouldn't make sense for the full verse to read, "I am God and do as I'm told."

Some believe that this phrase would simply mean "I am, right now, and forever will be, better than Abraham." Then the word "before" just simply refers to Abraham's lack of importance when compared to Jesus. The Jews thought there was no greater father than Abraham so this is why they become hostile with misunderstanding in verse 59 with intentions to stone Jesus then. In addition to this Jesus was the promised descendant of Abraham. With that said, God's promise to Abraham would not be fulfilled if Jesus existed before him. (Gen.17:17) So in conclusion, some believed that Jesus was not physically present in the time of Abraham, but that God did plan Jesus before the creation of the world and was now made flesh. (John 1:13)

I Am the Light of the World We all know that when Jesus refers to himself being the "Light of the World" he is saying that he is the savior. If people turn to him they will come out of the dark and walk in the light. "Thus the typical Johannine dualism is invoked"(Smith, 180). Also, this idea of light works well with the Festival of Hanukkah because it was a winter solstice festival and celebrated the light in the temple that burned for 8 days when the oil was gone.(180).

The Mystery of "The Jews" in John Chapter 8  The phrase “the Jews” appears many times in the Johannine text, something that distinguishes the Gospel of John from the synoptic gospels. It should be noted that many Jews believed in Jesus and became disciples so it is best to translated, or paraphrase it as certain rogues among the Jews.

For Further Reading
On The Textual Issues in the First Eleven Verses

The Pericope De Adultera Homepage

The Pericope de Adultera (in a Textual Commentary on the Greek Gospels)[]

The Adulteress and Her Accusers: A Study in Intrinsic Probability

The Jesus Seminar on John 8:1-11

Pericope de Adultera: Statistical Analysis of the New Testament

Jesus and the Woman Taken In Adultery (on Wikipedia)

Textual Evidence for John 8:1-11

Wilbur N. Pickering, "A DIFFERENT STEMMA FOR JOHN 7:53-8:11"

On the Interpretation of John 8:1-11

A. Watson, "Jesus and the Adulteress" (Biblica Vol.80, 1999)

On the Christology of John 8

James F. McGrath, "Are Christians Monotheists? The Evidence of St. John's Gospel"


text:
Talk:Swedish/List of strong and irregular verbs

Previously strong verbs that are now irregular
Added (in brackets) the older forms of verbs that used to be strong, because I believe that helps in understanding why today's forms look the way they do, and why some irregular verbs have the -it suffix that is usually the sign of a strong verb. clacke 16:19, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

More verbs added
I have recently added a bunch of verbs, using and  as sources. The former is a page where you can search for Swedish words in Svenska Akademiens ordlista (SAOL), Svensk ordbok (SO), and Svenska Akademiens ordbok (SAOB) simultaneously, and the latter is a thesis by Fredrik Smeds at Karlstads universitet, which amongst other things provides more or less complete lists of verbs in Standard Swedish that are (or once were) strong, irregular, or weak with varying or unusual conjugation, since the 19th century. There are many verbs not presented in our list, e.g., those that have weak conjugation today but once were strong and vice versa. The ones that I added are those that are strong, irregular, or weak with varying or unusual conjugation in the latest editions of SAOL and/or SO. ÅttioFem (discuss • contribs) 17:27, 4 August 2018 (UTC)