text:
User talk:SBJohnny/Archive 2

For old discussions (before October, 2006), see User talk:SBJohnny/Archive 1.

BOTM & COTM
Can you check BOTM and COTM boxes on the main page for grammatical and spelling correctness? --Derbeth talk 14:00, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

monobook.js
I got your monobook, and I agree that it looks very nice. However, I think that it can be improved. I'll fiddle with it, and let you know what I come up with. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 23:35, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

background color
Hi Johnny,

I wonder if you could tell me the code to change an entire page's background color if you have a chance. I want to change the background color on those articles which are voted "best" by the students in our class. Thanks a lot for your help!

Pete 16:30, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

categorization, etc.
Hi Johnny,

I had meant to do this categorization for weeks, now, but you know how easy it is for things to get pushed to the back-burner. Today is a perfect opportunity for me to get this done, and I think it will be finished today. Thanks for the reminder!

This project is going very well. We are feeling a bit of heat from the administration for the usual reasons, (you know, they're all very worried about the quality of a student-authored textbook), but the students really seem engaged by the process. We've actually gotten very little negative feedback from them, which comes as a bit of a surprise to me since they've all been educated in the traditional way with teachers doling out the required information and students scrambling to write down every bit of it. This process is a huge departure from that model, and they seem to be loving it.

As far as continuing the project goes, we are planning on it. The first step is to determine a way for next semester's students to be equally engaged in the process now that the bulk of the textbook has already been generated. I've been thinking of a couple ways we could go about this, but what do you think?

My only concern about becoming an administrator is that there are still some serious gaps in my knowledge of the Wikibooks system, (as you know from all of my frantic messages to you over the past months), but the good news is that I'm becoming very comfortable with what I do know, and I'm sure as I pick up new info. and strategies, it'll all become easier. I would be honored if you felt it legitimate to nominate me, and I'd certainly accept were I to receive the necessary votes. Thanks very much for the compliment!

Last, I wonder if it's possible for our textbook to be nominated for book of the month, or would our "Class Project" status disqualify us for consideration? I know, if the book got on the list, that would really be great for the students' morale. What do you think?

Hope you're having a great week!

Pete 14:02, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Monobook.js
I did a little bit of work on my monobook. Mostly it was just the addition of a tab before the book title. Check it out if you want to, and let me know what you think:

 * User:Whiteknight/monobook.js

Let me know if you think I should add/change anything. --Whiteknight (REPLY) 22:18, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Made some additional changes. Inside your copy (monobook.js) replace: for (j = 2; j < headings.length; j++) bookName.innerHTML+= " > " + headings[j]; with: for (j = 2; j < headings.length; j++) bookName.innerHTML+= "/" + headings[j]; to get:

 * Book name
 * Chapter name/Subchapter/Subsubchapter

Next if you add this to your monobook.css/main.css file: .booktitle { display: table; } .booktitle > li { list-style: none; font: bold 18pt sans-serif; border-top: 1px solid gray; border-bottom: 1px solid gray; padding: 5px; } .booktitle > li:first-child { font: bold 12pt sans-serif; border: none; }

you should get:

--darklama 21:53, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Untagged images
Hello Johnny. I have moved your message and answered it there: User:Guillom/Images without license. Cheers! guillom 20:35, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Jguk
Jguk has returned to editing Wikipedia (where he had been on hiatus since February), albeit sporadically. I suggest you try contacting him at w:User talk:Jguk. 22:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Categorization
You know, I have a bot that can be used to automatically categorize long lists of pages. I know that you are intent on cleaning out the Special:Uncategorizedpages list, but I could make the work go much more quickly. Let me know a couple books that are uncategorized, and I will help out if you want. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 17:15, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree with you about the little % complete icons, they are nice as a quick-glance type of thing, but they are completely arbitrary. I am actually going to be away from my computer from tonight until sunday, so I wont be of much help to you until then. However, if you give me a list of books that need to be categorized, I will be able to knock it out in about 30 seconds on sunday night. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 18:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll categorize everything you give me, I did alot of work on my bot last night, and I think I made the whole process easier! I can categorize an entire book with a single click now. I should be able to do a whole bunch of wiki-stuff tonight when I get home from work/school. BTW, congrats on getting import enabled! --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 14:49, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Merger
I merged the page because I wrote all the content myself and realized the module and it was to short and could be easily merged into: A-level_Mathematics/C3/Special Functions and Transformations. I really don't think a history merger is I did not know about the merged template, I will use it from now on. Keytotime 01:57, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Transwiki redirects
These shouldn't be marked for speedy deletion (redirects in the transwiki namespace should contain redirects to the current page location). -- SB_Johnny | talk 16:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok. I thought once they had been moved it was ok to mark the redirects for speedy deletion according to the rules. --darklama 16:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

 * These are sometimes pointed to from other projects (such as the wikipedia transwiki logs), so should never be deleted. There's really no reason to delete them in any case, as they're doing no harm where they are. -- SB_Johnny | talk 16:22, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Is there any issue with fixing their redirected links then if there double redirects? --darklama 17:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Not at all... those should be fixed. As a rule it's the "middle link" of double-redirects that should be taken out, not the first one. It's also fine to just have 2 different redirects to the same page. -- SB_Johnny | talk 17:16, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Since we're on the subjust of rules concerning redirects. Is it ok to mark pages for speedy deletion, if all thats left linked to them are user pages, talk pages, logs and archives of old logs and talk pages? It does seem like sometimes when thats all thats left that pages will be deleted. --darklama 17:30, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Final Fantasy I
The Final Fantasy I strategy guide is currently in the process of being deleted, but since its extremely large, the person who tried to delete it got tired. Just like to ask if you would like to help and be able to finish the deletion, cheers  M in un  ''Spiderman 10:41, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Yeah, that was me. It seems I bit off more then I could chew last night, and deleted pages until my clicking finger got tired. If you can't do anything about it, I will work on it more tonight. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 14:16, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I'd like to know what the link is to strategywiki as well... -- SB_Johnny | talk 14:22, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Transwiki Rules
What is the name of the page you mentioned for requesting imports here on Wikibook? I was going to add to something like "To request a page be imported to Wikibooks from another Wikimedia project post your request to ..." --darklama 21:03, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Instruction Creep
the heading speaks for itself. I've imported the majority of the text from that wikipedia guideline, and (because I can't seem to keep my grubby hands off anything) i've made some minor changes in wording (especially parts that pertain to wikibooks specifically). I hope this makes you happy, because you certainly have asked for it enough. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 03:56, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I didn't want to use the import tool here, because I was under the assumption that we would probably end up rewriting the entire thing anyway. You know how picky the people around here can be about word choice and semantics. Also, the version on wikipedia has alot of wikipedia-specific things in it that aren't worthwhile for us to import here completely. That's just my thoughts on the matter, you can import it if you want. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 13:29, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

please hold off for a day
Please take a day off from adding SD templates to redirects... I have a much better template in mind that I think you'll like, but I don't have time to write and test it just now. I'll get to it after sundown (about 6PM EST). -- SB_Johnny | talk 16:59, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

I've already been taking more then a day off on it. I haven't marked anything for speedy deletion since User:Guanaco reverted a ton of them. I wasn't planning to begin again unless or until reluntency to remove redirected links is addressed. Since doing so would just be a waste of time otherwise. --darklama 17:17, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Argh!!! I can't get it to work... the template is Template:Urd-10-06, I've been trying to get it to pop up on User:SBJohnny/sandbox3, but not a lot of luck. Go back a few steps in the history of the template (1st or second version) and you'll see what I'm trying to do. It's supposed to be a template where you put in the destination page as a variable, and acts just like a redirect when the template is normal. Then, after a given period of time, the entire template would just be changed to a speedy deletion template.

 * I'm trying to get at 2 problems. First: as a way of keeping tract of redirrects that were made at a certain time. Second, so that we won't have the problems entailed with deleting redirects (basically, when an admin opens up the page on the SD list, it goes straight to the destination page, and we then have to click back, which gets annoying after doing one or two).

 * I think you're pretty good at templating? Maybe you'll have better luck :). -- SB_Johnny | talk 22:57, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't think I fully understand what your trying to do. Are you trying to make a template thats time activated? That displays just the redirect until a certain period has past and then displays the delete template? I don't understand what you mean by "acts like a redirect when the template is normal. Then after a given period of time, the entire template would just be changed to a speedy deletion template." --darklama 23:13, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

 * No, it doesn't need to automatically change itself over time, it would be manually changed when the grace period ends (basically we would just blank the template and replace it with the text of delete. The reason I want the redirect inside the template is so that when the template is changed to speedy, the redirect will disappear. (We'd just have to use a different one each month... next month's would by Urd-11-06 (for: Unused redirect november 2006) -- SB_Johnny | talk 23:19, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Ah so your talking about each month creating a new template? That sounds like a lot of extra work. So the template basically categorizes redirect pages marked with the template? Then once a given period has past just look in the category and change all pages to have the delete template? I think I might be able to make the template do as you want, but in addition automatically categorizes based on when the page was last changed. So for example if the page was last modified in October 2006 it would be in Category:Unused Redirects/October 2006. --darklama 23:30, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Ok after doing some reading, I've learned that redirects cannot have variables in them, redirects must refer to a static page name and MetiaWiki has no plans to allow it. So the best way can do is have the template include a kind of "soft" redirect such as a box that says "This page has moved to ..., please update your bookmarks and websites." --darklama 01:42, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

(reset tab)

Bummer. Though actually a soft redirect might be better, since it will make it very clear that they have to change their links (easing my objection somewhat to the deletions). -- SB_Johnny | talk 09:08, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

BTW, I don't think it's much work... all you do is copy it and change the name of the month :).

Quite a propos... found this on w:Category:Articles containing how-to sections this morning: Transwiki:Link_rot. -- SB_Johnny | talk 09:17, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Why bother changing it when it can be done automatically? Take a look at what I was doing at User:SBJohnny/Unused Redirect. Even though the redirect won't work the part that categories based on when the page was last edited can still be used. --darklama 13:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I propose we use something like with the automatic categorization once the look of the soft redirect box has been given. I kinda would like some wording to include a reminder to check for subpages and delete them too if necessary. Because most of the time I could save some work by just marking the top level redirect of a tree of redirects if admins would remember to check and delete subpages as approperiate. --darklama 13:36, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Should I?
Should I point out on Requests for adminship that orginally all I had planned to do was move what few remaining pages were left under Water Resources before a comment you made saying it needed more then that done, confused me and took me off in a different direction? I disagree that I'm trying to dictate things or turn Wikibooks into a dictatorship and assume bad faith, though I concede that I may be coming off that way even though its not my intention. I agree with everything else you've said though. Thats why I was trying to talk you out of it before as being too soon. --darklama 13:43, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

 * What I said (on IRC, I believe) was that the book was a big mess that needed major re-working, and that we needed to get in touch with the authors to see what was going on. People who do things on wikibooks care about what they're doing, and you really need to listen to people. A great example is on the tw page debate, where you asked me (after a lengthy debate) why I thought it was a good idea to keep redirects, when I had already stated my reasons, repeatedly and concisely. I'd recap it again, but there's really no point if you don't listen. SB_Johnny  | talk 14:05, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I think I may have acted on what you said on my talk page before anything else you had said. Here's what I acted on:

 * That books needs even more work than that... the whole thing really needs to be tied together (the main editor on these books apparently disappeared a year ago). Might be better to keep the redirects in this case because there might be links from elsewhere (other wikis or websites, etc.). -- SB_Johnny | talk 01:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

 * And I had already marked the redirects for speedy deletion at that point which is why you said they should be kept. Then I discovered what you said about there being no main editor wasn't true so I then immediately informed them and asked for there help and told you about it.

 * I asked for a recap because I wasn't sure what your reasons are. Since you say you had stated your reasons, it wasn't clear to me then that you had stated them or wasn't clear to me what the reasons were for keeping redirects. I'm willing to listen and I like your comprose without even understanding your reasons. --darklama 14:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I didn't tell you to move the book around, I just told you to stop adding speedy tags on book chapter redirects that you had moved. Implied in that is that you shouldn't go about moving other people's books around without trying to find an author, and you shouldn't ask for speedying all the redirects becaus they might be linked on a website somewhere by the person who took the time to write the book and structure it the way they did (messy though it might have been, it wasn't a NP problem, it was just wierd. You still haven't removed the speedy tags, though guanaco made a dent in them. SB_Johnny  | talk 14:48, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I misunderstood what you meant by "tied together". I thought you meant they needed to be made into one book. I even said on the person's talk page I probably misunderstood you. I was waiting to hear from the person on what pages they objected to being speedly deleted and moved, so I could try to take care of it all at once. I checked google to see if any pages were linked to them admittedly after I had already marked them for speedy deletion. No pages were linked to them. In the future if we have this handy soft redirect template and its agreed to I'll be using it from now on. Maybe waiting on the user isn't/wasn't the best course of action. --darklama 15:04, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, this book is about legal matters, and legal websites often have html tags asking search engines not to search. Yes, it needed to be tied together, but you and I wouldn't be the ones to do that (personally I have no idea how that would all be tied together). SB_Johnny  | talk 15:09, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Ya I don't fully know how it could all be tied together either. The NP came into play because the main page had it listed as such and other people who had moved pages listed NP as the reason for the move, so I assumed in good faith that NP was a problem. --darklama 15:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

On ym user page
Yes, I did mean to add that garbage to my user page. It was a confirmation code so that I could join the Checkuser-L mailing list (finally). They wanted me to add that code to my own userpage, and then email the list admin the link to the edit diff. Thanks for watching my page, though. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 17:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

transwiki procedure
Hey SB, thanks for moving those dance move articles. I had a quick question though on the procedure - do I go back to wikipedia now and list them for deletion? Or is that already done during the import process? Thanks!--Will.i.am 19:50, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The transwiki process only brings a copy of the page here, it doesnt affect the content on wikipedia at all. If you want to delete the content on their server, you need to request that over there. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 20:06, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually, I did list them on the outgoing transwiki log at wikipedia, so they'll be taken care of by the admins there within a few days. -- SB_Johnny | talk 20:09, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Awesome, thank you!--Will.i.am 20:24, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks again!--Will.i.am 08:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Mediation request to expedite resolution of a copyright disagrement.
Panic has marked C++_Programming/TOC2/Print_Version as being a copyright violation which I disagree with. The discussion can be found Talk:C++_Programming/TOC2/Print_Version. Panic has agreed to have mediation by you if your will, to resolve this issue quickly. --darklama 04:38, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Creating a new wikibook
Is creating a wikibook on used car buying acceptable on here?? Advice is appreciated! --SunStar Net 18:51, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Yet Another Haskell Tutorial import
Hello! Thanks for your concern. I spoke with the author personally at a conference, and he gave me his permission to import his book into wikibooks (knowing that implicitly, this would pass it under the GFDL). After a few friendly reminders, he sent me the TeX sources, which have never before been released. Otherwise, the book has been available as PDF under the terms, which I quote here: Copyright (c) Hal Daume III, 2002-2006. The preprint version of this tutorial is intended to be free to the entire Haskell community, so we grant permission to copy and distribute it for any purpose, provided that it is reproduced in its entirety, including this notice. Modified versions may not be distributed without prior concent of the author, and must still maintain a copy of this notice. The author retains the right to change or modify this copyright at any time, as well as to make the book no longer free of charge. Is there anything specific you think I should do to clarify this? I have thanked the author on the main page of Haskell/YAHT, but if you think I should do something more formal, please let me know. Cheers, -- Kowey 20:14, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

"Excerpt collection print version notice" template
Do you mind if I rename it to "Excerpt print notice", the current name is a bit long to type out and if it gets used more "Excerpt print notice" would be easier to rememory. I admit I'm not sure I like that exact name either. I'm just sure it could do with a shorter name. Do you mind if I also change the first and last points in the message some? I have some ideas for replacing:

 * This print version does not contain all the chapters of this book, but rather only those which are well-developed, not disputed, and/or represent a subsection of the book.

 * If more chapters of the book are improved sufficiently to be included in this print version, you should add them under the appropriate heading in this page.

with something like:

 * This print version may present an alternative structure and may only contain a subsection of this book and/or those parts, which are well-developed and not disputed, You may add to this print version any chapters of the book that have improved sufficiently to be included under the appropriate heading. See the |discussion page for discussion about this excerpt.

--darklama 15:55, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

 * OK by me... it was just a quick modification anyway. -- SB_Johnny | talk 16:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

merge suggestion template
User:Darklama/Templates/merge is the template itself. User:Darklama/Templates/merge/test is the test of the template on page thats not a discussion page. User_talk:Darklama/Templates/merge/test is the test of the template on a discussion page.

And Template_messages/Cleanup are all the merge templates that this template tries to replace. 1 template compared to 7 templates. The usage I think is simple. If it were in the Template namespace it would be. People could then place the exact same template of the same form on both the merge-from and merge-to pages to suggest the merger and the template takes care of the work by testing if merge-from is the same page that its located on or not. It also tests if the page is a discussion page and only relies on the first template argument in that case. Usage on discussion pages would be.

Based on what you already said though, it might be best to leave the discussion testing out and keep it as a seperate template, if the template informing of a merger that has already taken place is to go on the page and not the discussion page. Otherwise it may be possible to merge in an 8th template as well by combining Template:Now_merged into it too.

Just two categories could then exist. Category:Merge requests and Category:Now merged to cover requests and merges that have taken place. --darklama 19:00, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Template:MbM2wv
Template:MbM2wv thanks :O)--62.2.213.130 20:12, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

User:Javier_Carro/es.wikiversity_pages_to_be_undeleted

Growing list of recipes ....
And the broom goes where . I'll look at it as soon as I've got a moment! Regards -- Herby talk thyme 17:54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * If you are still talking to me! When none of you admin folks were around earlier and we were dealing with the vandal he was blocked by Suisui.  I can't find that user in admin/sysop etc?  Useful to know for the future.  Also I guess - good work on the transwiki stuff too - cheers -- Herby  talk thyme 19:41, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

query template
query template makes use of a 7 day check and adds it to Category:Candidates for speedy deletion as you were wanting. I went a step futher in combining qr-em qr-dup by having one optional argument that determines if it says "a stub" or "duplicate contents of " --darklama 20:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Vandals & Admins
Thanks a lot for the info. I guess on Wikipedia things are a little different and I'm still feeling my way (& people are patient, it's great). RC stuff when I am around is no problem to me. As to IRC, it's not something I've got into really (you'll be telling me to use a computer for editing this next!) but I guess I'll drop a toe in the water soon maybe. Regards -- Herby talk thyme 10:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Time of day
Hey - you are the guys around at odd times of the day! I'm in the UK so editing would be an odd hour at work and some time in the evenings maybe.

The gardener bit made me think. I guess I am something of a gardener but self taught and with some biases. The name is a bit of a giveaway - if I had my way (but of course you never get that) the garden would probably only contain herbs. I love using my own herbs in cooking and might well look more a other herb uses I guess. In your sense of the word (& your background) I guess I'm amateur but interested - ramble over. If I can help anywhere I'll probably try at least. -- Herby talk thyme 11:55, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Sjjupadhyay
This user is working on the same project that I had been working on, to upload a series of e-books from the UN. All the images for these books have already been released under the CreativeCommons Attribution 2.5 license. This user is new, and I dont think he quite understands the whole process, but I can assure you that all the images he has uploaded are released under that license. I'll go through and tag them now, but if you see any more from this user in the future, the are probably part of the same image set. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 21:33, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

26/44
Thank you SB_Johnny for your comments on the 26/44 wikibook. I am new to wikibooks, and wanted a fair shake, but one of the commentors really wanted to be right instead of helpful. Your comments were helpful not only in helping me see what a reader might be interested in, but also helping me understand better how to participate in wikibooks. It seems like any purely open wiki needs time to attract readers, and to attract multiple authors. And I certainly need time to do the writing and revising. Jerekson 21:56, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Gardening Manual
Just browsing these pages - the main manual page seems to lack links (other than index) to the many and quality pages in the index? I'm sure you have something in mind but if I can help let me know? Regards -- Herby talk thyme 12:44, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

MIPS Assembly
Hey, I just noticed that this page had been moved and then deleted by you. This had been the title page of a book that I had created (although I haven't edited it in a while). Somebody had replaced the text of the page with a copy+paste from wikipedia, and then you moved it to the Transwiki namespace. I have restored the original text of the page, and I am going to delete the Transwiki:MIPS Assembly page, because it is now just a redirect to content that wasn't actually transwikied. The text that had been copy+pasted here wasn't of any value, so I didn't try to preserve it. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 14:49, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Animal Care/Land hermit crab
The material in this "book" is entirely my own. I did put some of the shell info (and other info) into the Wikipedia Caribbean hermit crab article. I deliberately put lots of links to the Wikipedia information, so I wouldn't have to repeat the information there.

I don't understand the benefit of copying the Wikipedia information into Wikibooks. Could you please explain? Thanks. Jangim 10:43, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I am not really sure that I agree with the idea of trying to keep two different sets of encyclopedia info up-to-date. Hermit crab biology is a work-in-progress right now.

 * However, once I finish the book/chapter and get it reviewed by a couple of "crabbers" AND get some more work done on the Wikipedia articles, I'll work on making the stuff more independent of Wikipedia. This going to take a while.

 * My primary aim at the moment is just to make the care info available. Too many people are killing their crabs via ignorance and Wikipedia will not allow pet care info (I tried).  I have also been in too many pet stores that are selling sick crabs due to the low humidity in their tanks!! :-(

 * Three-years-old is definitely too young to care for hermit crabs. The crabs can be seriously hurt by being dropped and they can pinch HARD if they are afraid of falling or if they are provoked.

 * If you teach your hermit crabs to trust people (misting, handfeeding, and gentle treatment) and your child can remember not to hold a crab by the shell in mid-air, they probably won't get pinched. If you get tiny crabs, it is less likely that a pinch would hurt. You can get the really small crabs from www.thecrabbagepatch.com.

 * Your child would probably enjoy just watching the crabs play for now. When older, he/she could gradually take over more of the care.  Just remember that hermit crabs can live for 30-40 years with good care and plan appropriately.  Crabbers will help you place your crabs if you decide that this is not the pet for you.

 * Hermit crabs are smart enough to pile up on top of each other to allow the top crab to push the lid off of an aquarium. Some will tap on the glass of their habitat to get the attention of the person who feeds them.

WB for WP
Shouldn't say it but I'm actually at work! I'll certainly look at that (& the gardening) tonight/tomorrow and do anything I can. Could I ask you to look at Wikibooks talk:Template messages/User talk namespace - is it in the right place (did think staff lounge first but wasn't sure). Thanks & regards -- Herby talk thyme 15:00, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I would say so far - very good. I sort of want to get in something about the more casual, less rigid approach of WB compared to WP but I can't see an easy way (& not sure if it is important - I just found it different).  I know I didn't find templates easily but not that many people would want them (& I didn't search so that is just me!).  Going to look at gardening next.  Good morning when you get this! -- Herby  talk thyme 10:29, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Gardening
Well I've done some v minor edits to the front page as much as anything so you can let me know if I am going in the right direction (or any direction at all!). I de wikied a page - taking everything out seemed better than trying to leave possible bits in. We can always do links later?

I am a bit puzzled as there seems to be an existing wb on gardening - Gardening - which apart from anything else leads to a dupe page for tomatoes for example? Can we use/incorporate that? I assume (to keep the structure flat) categories will need to develop for fruit and veg for example? More than happy to help but some indication of your ideas would be great - all the best -- Herby talk thyme 11:09, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Pineapple sage
Be good to hear any recipe ideas. I've not actually used it much but it is a great flower at this time of year - the colour is so intense. Hope the greens go well and feel free to let me know if I can help more on gardening. I'll look some more at it later (can we merge pages such as tomato?). Got to do some gardening myself too!

As I said above WB for WP looks good. I'm not a fan of user boxes but would a cat "Wikibookians who are also Wikipedians" allow people to find others with similar views/previous experience etc - I'm not really sure about the idea myself but ... Regards -- Herby talk thyme 12:45, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Aspies book
Apologies - my fault - I should have looked at history rather than just content. I'll remember in future -- Herby talk thyme 14:05, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Policy of the Week
It was my intention to use the PotW thing to help deal with some of the old proposals that have been lying around wikibooks for a large amount of time without any kind of decision. The idea behind it was that proposals that are sufficiently old could be decided in a shot-gun fasion. I don't think it is necessarily appropriate to use the nominations to decide new proposals, because new proposals should not be "shot-gunned" through to a decision the way some of the old and unused proposals could be. New proposals require more then a single week's worth of attention anyway. If you would like to draw attention to a particular proposal, you can just say "Look at this proposal", and not call it a PotW. There are still a few (not many, but a small few) old proposals that I would really like to move to the forefront in the next few weeks, preferabbly under the PotW banner. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 20:02, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm not just trying to keep control over this thing, and I never claimed to be "in the trenches" doing anything. But a week is simply not enough time to devote to a new policy proposal. Those things take time, and saying "we are going to work on this for a week, and then move on to some other project", or even "We are going to try and push this new proposal through the system without due discussion" are both bad strategies. If there are non-admins doing high volumes of cleanup work, perhaps they should be nominated for adminship? I know Derbeth just made User:Swift into an admin, but I agree that we need more active admins, and promoting just one active user out of all the people who are helping is simply not enough. If you want people to focus attention on a particular proposal, or if you want to brain storm on a particular subject, don't handicap yourself by saying that we are only working on it for one particular week. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 13:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

 * PS, I've made it a personal policy of mine that I don't promote an admin if I nominated that particular user for it. I would have promoted Swift earlier, but I made the nomination. If you find people who are worthy of it, you make the nominations (or persuade them to nominate themselves), and I will be able to act on it more quickly. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 14:02, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree with you that the behavioral fixes seem overwhelming, but we've lived for so long on here without any solid policies or guidelines telling us even what to do, much less how to do it properly. I think alot of the mess that exists on the server now, and alot of the problems people have with following the rules are because we either (a) never had rules to begin with or (b) never enforced the few rules that we did have. Wikipedia i think takes our problem to the opposite extreme with far too many rules, but I dont think that to avoid wikipedia's problem that we should have no rules, or far too few.
 * But that's hardly here nor there. I do agree with you about User:Xania and User:Herbythyme. I also agree with you about the mentorship thing, but I worry that:
 * The community in general won't support it.
 * It will just be another level buraucracy that we will have to deal with.
 * Most "mentors" will just be nominal, and won't help out with their "mentees"
 * I think a better idea in general would be to create an informal "mentorship" process, perhaps through an essay. Admins who are feeling particularly helpful could adopt a new admin, but it won't be a requirement. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 14:37, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

I haven't been using the PotW thing to try and push through alot of old policy proposals. In fact (and I haven't checked the numbers really) I think the initiative has cause more proposals to be rejected then to be accepted. I agree that we don't really need to mandate the way people act, and that we should definately let admins use their own judgement in most cases. If this is the case, then many of the old proposals that are lying around that try to limit the judgement of admins can just be rejected. However, i still posit that these proposals should be judged one way or the other, and that it is unfair and irresponsible for us to simply let these proposals sit around forever with no interest, no discussion, and no decision. If the community already is following these proposals, then can be quickly and painlessly enforced. If the community is not currently following them, they should probably be rejected. Either way, they should be discussed and decided. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 15:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

OMG
I'm going to spell "articles" wrong for the rest of my life. The best solution is probably to either ignore it, or eventually i'll write a bot that will follow me around and correct it. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 16:21, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

 * At the very least, I am consistant. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 16:24, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Hum
Thanks & you have mail. -- Herby talk thyme 18:03, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Template:Deletiontools
While looking around at Special:Categories I came across Template:Deletiontools which seems to have been created by an anonymous user back in June and has nothing linked to it and consists almost entirely of links to templates that don't exist. I was thinking of marking it for speedy deletion, but I thought I should check with an admin first since it seems like it may be meant for admins to use. --darklama 20:18, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

 * It seems like this might be useful to us, but we don't currently use it or anything like it. I would have to see how they use it on the 'pedia before saying that we would be able to use it here. I say it can probably be deleted. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 20:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, wikipedia uses this template to list all the various templates associated with administrative and cleanup tasks. Such a think might be useful here, if we were to clean it up. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 20:46, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Category:Wikibooks maintenance would seem to serve similar purposes here. --darklama 20:55, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Category:Templates list templates, maybe Category:Wikibooks cleanup templates could be used more as well to categorize the the clean up templates. Of course there is also Template messages --darklama 21:03, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Prolly not worth keeping... that template is used on wikipedia's highly organised cleanup pages... they've got at least 13 templates for speedy deletion alone! Hopefully we don't need something like that :). -- SB_Johnny | talk 21:09, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like I may be better of listing it on VfD and see what happens. --darklama 21:22, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Structured Analysis of Systems
I found this page, that is a wikiversity page. I couldnt remember which template to use to mark it as needing to be moved to wikiversity. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 03:27, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Not sure how to handle this...
I got queit a few import requests from Wikipedia.

 * Xlib, Qt and GTK+ are probably straightforward.

 * Motif (widget toolkit), LessTif and Open Motif OTOH probably aren't. I want them, but as only one page. If I were doing this pre-import I'd probably be copying pasting the contents of all 3 pages into a single page, minus the stuff I don't need.

So whats needed here? Request for Import and a request for the history to be merged? --darklama 15:54, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Yup. Request all the imports, and merge the pages "by hand". Once you're done merging, add the "merged" tag (I forget what it's called, please remind me), which will (hopefully) put them in a category (the name of which I forget). Then an admin can merge the histories and restore to the latest version (the one you made by merging). -- SB_Johnny | talk 16:02, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually, I'm almost done importing, but I don't have time to enter them in the log. See Special:Log/Import.
 * All done. Looks like you have some dewikifying to do :). -- SB_Johnny | talk 16:15, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

 * By the way: if you want to attract some more contributors for your project, you can add ~ to the talk pages on wikipedia. -- SB_Johnny  | talk 16:20, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I dewikified them and did the merger. I use the merged tag but not sure if thats the right one. There is a now merged one as well, but I think it may be ment for an administrator to use. I'm going to wait on you or another admin to carry out merging of the page histories before I do any more. So you don't have to find it, the page is Transwiki:Motif (widget toolkit). I'll probably try to attract some more contributors soon. There's also at least one book here already that I think of that might benifit from being merged into mine, I think its almost a stub and hasn't been worked on in a while. Which leads to the question, how long after using mergefrom and mergeto templates is it ok to merge a book if nobody responds or whats the policy on that if any? --darklama 17:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Oh almost forgot the talk pages you imported along with them weren't useful. Most if not all consisted of Wikipedia specific stuff. Can you delete them? --darklama 17:55, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I always just import them in case they're useful. Just blank them if they bother you. -- SB_Johnny | talk 17:56, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Would this be easy?
I'd like my css preferences to interpret the following line as "noprint"...

< A Wikimanual of Gardening

Is that an easy fix?-- SB_Johnny | talk 15:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Ok your talking about the links it gives on subpages? Sure that can be done.

Add the following to your css file:

 * 1) contentSub { display: none; } /* hide links to parent pages */

Bot, Image tagging
I just used my bot to tag about two dozen images that weren't tagged (but whose copyright status i know). This is proof of the concept, i think. If we need to add tags (even delete tags) to multiple images, I can do it in a jiff. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 16:31, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

 * If you can IRC right now, come to #wikimedia-commons. They have delete bots. -- SB_Johnny | talk 16:36, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I was cleaning up Staff lounge
There was a message asking for a reply from you (Staff_lounge/Archive_24), see if it was addressed... txs--Panic 16:57, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

PS: You also seem to be in need of a cleanup on this page :)

Bots
Spotted it - advantage of RC - thanks -- Herby talk thyme 17:03, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry but got to say this
The folk here really know how to motivate people -- Herby talk thyme 13:31, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Touche (& I do fence ). Guess what RC patrolling feels like with no admins around! -- Herby  talk thyme 13:43, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * It was around when I (or someone like me!) was active in that forum! (quite odd - I found "me" on a transwiki'd page!) -- Herby talk thyme 14:10, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Terrarium for hermit crabs
Just added info on the Exo Terra Terrarium to the Animal Care/Land hermit crab chapter (Super tank section). Not cheap, but easier for a child to deal with. Jangim 18:41, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

MMM series
Looking at it there a few not "correctly" named in this. Want me to look? I only approached User:Miketm so if you know others/think they should be told feel free - cheers -- Herby talk thyme 11:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

 * You mean not using slash convention, or something else? -- SB_Johnny | talk 11:46, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Only the slash convention that I could see - no hidden agenda  -- Herby talk thyme 11:48, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * If I remember correctly, there's also a lot of pages using MMM/Chaptername (as opposed to Movie Making Manual/Chaptername) too, though that may have been fixed.
 * If the pages use bad naming, it's best just to fix them using "move", then check four double redirects and fix those too. Don't nominate the redirects for speedy though... that book is probably linked from off site. -- SB_Johnny | talk 11:52, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Made a start (& will deal with double redirs) but both Movie Making Manual/Writing Low Budget and Movie Making Manual-Writing Low Budget exist already. Not met that before - is it a "merge" one? -- Herby  talk thyme 12:29, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Interesting. You should probably use the mergeto and mergefrom templates. Probably the result of a copy-paste move, so the histories might need merging too. -- SB_Johnny | talk 12:33, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Slugs
This one is very good indeed - I was watching it progress anyway, rather a wet day off here so the garden isn't getting the attention it should. BTW they will accept lager, I know - I've used it! Looking at the other one nexy - cheers -- Herby talk thyme 16:27, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Sawflies look fine too tho they are not something I am really familiar with. I was looking at the whole gardening book - how do you see the front page going?  I guess I mean is it to be just links or text with links in?  Equally I was looking at the idea of a "pests" subpage which would then have an overview with links?  Mad, similar to you or both  -- Herby  talk thyme 16:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Interesting?
Worth a look at the contributions here? . Hope all ok - cheers -- Herby  talk thyme 19:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Stuff
Good to see you - missed you not being around (in fact people weren't around for the last couple of days). As to the other gardening book - some kind of message on pages pointing potetial contributors to A Wikimanual of Gardening maybe?

You want a spam fighters opinion on contacting commercial manufacturers o garden products and asking them for something to help sell their products!!!!

OK - more seriously it is a good idea if it is kept under control. I guess my issue is that around the world there are a fair few of them (remember us over the pond!) - it could get a bit unwieldy? However I think it is a necessary part of the Wikimanual. I'm sure you will but I'l just put in a plea that real organic folk and their remedies get a good showing too - in our area it would probably be maybe, sure you have the equivalent. -- Herby talk thyme 13:03, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Thats a - whats the phrase I want - b*gg*r I think! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Herbythyme (talk • contribs) 16:27, 12 Nov 2006 (UTC)

 * + User talk:BOOK OF MUSLIM SAINTS & MYSTICS??? -- Herby talk thyme 16:47, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Book move help
Can you take a look at Study help desk? An user is asking to 'move' a book from en.wikibooks to simple.wikibooks (Simple English Wikibooks). As for me, because she says the book needs to be changed so that it would be useful for people not knowing English well, the books should not be moved but rather forked - copied to Simple, changed there, but also remain here. Anyway, this requires copying the book to another project. I think that you know how to open page import at a wiki (this should be the best way to perform such copy). Could you solve this issue? Oh, and BTW, it would be great if you added Study help desk to your watchlist. --Derbeth talk 08:52, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * But I see special:export as working... Anyway, I thought you know who we should ask to open import on simple.wikibooks. --Derbeth talk 17:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Reply
Sorry for my late reply, my phone didn't have battery all weekend. I don't have time to get in touch with you tonight, but I can give you a call sometime on monday or wednesday. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 23:49, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Forum/w/wiki/Forum/w/w/index.php
You blanked it and???? Can't see protection etc? -- Herby talk thyme 08:16, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Er, but it ain't in the protect log & I can edit it!!! -- Herby talk thyme 09:39, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Gonna protect it? -- Herby talk thyme 09:47, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

A Wikimedia Administrator's Handbook
Good set of pages - I've learnt a lot. Now all you need do is get the (inactive) admins to look at them! Best -- Herby talk thyme 11:30, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll look more as soon as I can & thanks for the block -- Herby talk thyme 12:13, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Guessed that from the page with "local policies" in - I imagine there will then be similar on all pages? BTW looks very good so far -- Herby talk thyme 13:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I can work a little on this book. Its a really good idea, I think. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 14:00, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Nice talk page posting on WP Johnny, be interesting to see if it brings any folk -- Herby talk thyme 15:44, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Guess I live in a sleepy backwater myself - what I don't understand is why you are so keen to play with them! -- Herby talk thyme 18:30, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Request for image deletions
I've made a bunch of mistakes uploading images over the past few days.Is there some procedure for getting them deleted? Currently they areunused. The in question are: E2EliminationReaction2.png,E2EliminationReaction.png, SN1MechanismComplete.png,SN2CompleteReactionMechanism.png, SN2CompleteReactionMechanism.png, andCyclohexanevariations.png. I have uploaded replacements for all theseimages, so these are just sitting there taking up space, albeit not alot. Still, just trying to tidy up after myself. -- Pete 03:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks, I'll add them to Speedy Deletions. I'll also do my future uploads to Wikimedia Commons. You're right, others may want to reuse them. Thanks for the info. -- Pete 13:36, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Daughters
Thinking about it - because I did not see myself fitting into Wp I wonder why you do - says far more about how I see the similarities of our views (as I see it) than anything else!

I was aware of the speedy spam one (I might even have added something) but I was tied up in a couple of small wars at the time. However it was an issue that was symptomatic of my increasing disinterest in the idea of changing WP - why was there so much discussion against something so obviously needed. In the end I felt that a disprportionate amount of effort required to get change (& the community spirit - to me - was small). I decided to be just an editor and stay below the parapet - you obviously have a greater taste for crossfire than I do!

The title of this and why I wasn't around yesterday - my daughter wanted me. All the best -- Herby talk thyme 08:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Day off and rain here today - may get some stuff I want to do done! Just cleared a nice collection of vandalism - geez, you have a day away and .... (all reg users too).  While I'd love to see a little more policy here WP seems bogged down in discussion on stuff (nobody will ever put "he was patient" on my grave!).  That said - here inertia seems to take over.  I keep bumping into stuff that has been started and then just fades away.  I guess unfinished VfD for example irritate me - make a decision - move on!!! You can tell it's one of those days! -- Herby  talk thyme 11:28, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * PS any east way of picking up newbies who registered at the same time - can't believe there are only three of them -- Herby talk thyme 11:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Brain in gear - found user creation log and can't find other obvious vandals tho they were all created together -- Herby talk thyme 13:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

What is spam
This is why a policy on spam is probably needed...

Spam is the sending or automation of posting/distributing unsolicited content in a one to many context, the content of the spam text can, but may not be, intended in gaining any monetary advantage or selling products this action is common on the email system as a marketing plot because it is a cheap way to publicize products. The spam word is derived of a type of canned food with a generic meat flavor. And so the idea is to use SPAM as a generic definition to the sending/packaging/distribution in an automated way of sh*t to a mass target userbase/population. (the content does not define spam in it self, only the intention and how it is being distributed)--Panic 17:22, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Right, but why did you think that page was spam? -- SB_Johnny | talk 18:00, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

 * The title was in French and the content in Portuguese with no relation with each other nor with the location on Wikibooks, even if the content was not garbage it wasn't wikibooks material/or references the most obvious origin for the pages was a bot that cloned other web pages into Wikibooks. So it constituted unsolicited content with a high degree of probability of being result of some automation. --Panic 23:39, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Esperanza
I made a note about this on staff lounge. If the people here dont object (and I generally don't expect they will), I would like to post a general invite for esperanza members to join wikibooks. We would likely be able to import esperanza pages directly, so the community could pick up where it left off. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 20:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

RE: Autoconfirmed users
That's how it works on en.wikipedia. I assumed it would be the same on all of the Foundation's wikis because they use the same software. Is it different here? -- Steelen:Steel 14:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
 * In that case I suppose it's quite possible for the autoconfirmed thing to be different here. Makes writing a cross-project handbook difficult. -- Steelen:Steel 16:42, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Request for comments on User:Ewen
Ewen has now pointed his focus on Chemical synthesis. He made some edits which I thought unhelpful or unfitting. I reverted but wasn't able to add my rationale for the edit for some time. In the meantime (twenty minutes later), he reverted back and in a tone which I find very unproductive. Perhaps I'm being overly sensitive here. Could you please give me your oppinion? I'm also contacting Whiteknight. Thanks, --Swift 01:02, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I guess you'll find it
Sorry - but the discontent is still rumbling around -- Herby talk thyme 13:30, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * OK apologies - User_talk:Ewen (bottom part) & Talk:Chemical_synthesis. No comment from me -- Herby  talk thyme 13:51, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Adding a clock to the qr templates
I played around with it a bit this morning, but a very funny number came up in the preview so I decided to leave it be. For now, maybe just have a sentence at the bottom (visible, within the template) that says "this page has not been edited in $ days". That way we don't need to go into the pagehistory when cleaning up Category:Queried pages. -- SB_Johnny | talk 11:52, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

 * The funny results may possibly have been the result of the REVISION magic words using a default value in preview because there isn't a revision history date yet for that edit, since its not been saved. Page history for what pages? Why would we need to go into the page histor(y/ies)? --dark [[Image:Yin yang.svg|12px]] lama 13:19, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

 * To see how long ago the qr tag was added! -- SB_Johnny | talk 13:21, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Thats why I was talking about using subst on the REVISION or CURRENT magic words, so it timestamps based on when the tag was added rather than when the page was last edited. --dark [[Image:Yin yang.svg|12px]] lama 14:02, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Yeah, but it the page has been recieving edits, the concern of the query might be being worked on, if you see what I mean. -- SB_Johnny | talk 14:10, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Steward
He's still "inactive" and if anyone was looking for help it might be best not to look there? -- Herby talk thyme 13:43, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * OK - works well for me but then list him seperately in case ignorant folk (like me) think that he is someone they can get hold of (& maybe he is not someone they sould be thinking of getting hold of)? -- Herby talk thyme 13:57, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Could maybe add a Stewards section to the admins page and then mark him or her as being inactive here. --dark [[Image:Yin yang.svg|12px]] lama 14:04, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Good to me - are there any other before I put both feet in! -- Herby talk thyme 14:11, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorted - thanks -- Herby talk thyme 14:18, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup
Good work, away most of today but I'll look more at it (I have an area in mind but I'll think it thro first) cheers -- Herby talk thyme 10:08, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Esperanza on Wikibooks?
Hi Johnny, Halo from Wikipedia here.

I've been turning over what you said in my head, and I'm quite happy to come over and contribute here as well, possibly with a view to creating an Esperanza type group here as well (seems to be an idea that is possible, judging by this discussion). Anyway, before planning how Esperanza might work here, I'd be greatful if you could leave some links on my talk to any and everything you feel a new wikibooks contributor needs (for example, I remember searching for ages on Wikisource for copyright rules, and still not really being 100% sure :P Lucky for me, you guy have the copyright page clearly visable when editing :). I think that this sort of thing is certainly something Esperanza could get it's teeth into; creating a useful welcome message for new users, highlighting all the important stuff that you need to know. Oh, and if you have any suggestions or comments about what Esperanza should do here, plase leave those as well. After the battering we've had on Wikipedia, I don't want to create something that will alienate Wikibook contributors. Anyway, looking forward to hearing from you, and thanks for the invite over here :)

All the best, Th ε Halo Θ 16:03, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Hey Johnny, thanks for the links. You were right, Wikibooks for Wikipedians was very, very helpful indeed. I'll be looking around and getting comfortable here, then start contributing a bit before going on to the Esperanza stuff. This conversation and other such worries makes me think it is best to do this slow and carefully to make sure any Wikibooks community project doesn't suffer the same problems, and thus opposition as Esperanza. Anyway, any ideas or comments you have at this stage would be more than welcome, and I'm looking forward to getting more involved here :) Cheers, Th ε Halo Θ 13:13, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Hi again, thanks for the links. I might be able to do some stuff with Falconry (training) as I've got quite a bit of experience with Falconry. Also, the welcome templates seem like just the thing for a community project, and something I could be getting on with until then :) I may not be able to contribute fully until next week now, becuase not only do I have to continue to contribute to the Esperanza debate on wikipedia, I'm also heading up north over the weekend, and will be away from the internet. However, I've certainly got a lot to get my teeth into :) Th ε Halo Θ 15:03, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Hey, thanks for transwiking it. I've got a bit of spare time now, so I'll head on over and dewikify it (which, after a year and a half of wikifying, will be odd...). You may be suprised to learn that some birds of pray actually make good pets, or so I am told by those who have the spave to actually keep them ;) Th ε Halo Θ 16:19, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Moving things to commons
Thanks for the tip, I didn't know about this template. --Lgriot 09:26, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks
For the spam block. Good to see you and be in touch a bit later  -- Herby talk thyme 11:49, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

A bit later  - My turn!
Your response required Requests_for_adminship -- Herby talk thyme 13:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

The Book
Hi Johnny, Not sure if you're on duty today, but you may notice that I have made a ton of edits to The Social and Cultural Foundations of American Education today. This is in response to an article about our project in the local paper that included the URL. To accomodate lots of new traffic, I am moving all the not-selected articles to new modules called Supplementary Materials. Also, somebody has just edited the book's table of contents, and I wonder if you can share with me any tricks for reverting back to previous versions. It will take quite a while for me to fix this if it is not possible to simply revert back to a previous version. Any advice you have would be much appreciated. Hope it's not too cold up there! Pete 19:52, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Nom
Nope - but we needed one more (in my view, given the number going and he beat me to that!) but I didn't expect you both to make it! I can only see borderline options on RfA -- Herby talk thyme 13:31, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Users not yet acceptable to me! (but almost certainly not to others as well) -- Herby talk thyme 13:37, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Had No Idea
Hi Johnny, I had no idea it was this easy. Thanks for the info. It seems that the book is really coming together nicely, and the students' reception of this type of project has been great. We are currently kicking around several variations of this project for next semester and have generated quite a bit of hype, (miraculously not all negative), around the university. Another question for you - do you know how I can track the number of times our book is viewed? Maybe this is a function not available to everyone, but I was just wondering. Thanks again for all your advice and support throughout this process. It has been a great and eye-opening experience for everyone involved. Hope you have a healthy and happy Thanksgiving!

Pete 17:02, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

SQL Server 2005
Was going to qr-em this but noticed it was yours?? -- Herby talk thyme 16:41, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

PS - it doesn't actually link to any of the other pages other than via the Category: -- Herby talk thyme 16:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Will do. FWIW Structured Query Language - for querying databases -- Herby  talk thyme 16:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I thinks it's a case of "if you didn't know that you wouldn't be reading it" (& sure as hell wouldn't be taking the exam!) but I'll go and put it in anyway! -- Herby talk thyme 17:43, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Yep but with no idea what the content was supposed to be it would be hard to put much in. I only know what it means not much more! Still improved the links, it's not as nad as some. -- Herby  talk thyme 17:49, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandal
For a quick block if you are around -- Herby talk thyme 17:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Deletion Bot
I've tweated the image deletion script some to take into consideration whether or not there is anything listed in the Lists heading and to skip over those images if there is. So now its safer and don't have to worry about images being in use being deleted before they've had a chance to be removed. Take a look at User:Prod/Image_list :) --<span style="font: bold 10pt 'courier new', comic, sans, ms;"><font color="midnightblue">dark lama  00:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Cool :). Technically, you should use an approved bot account for running that thing, but I don't think anyone will make a fuss. -- SB_Johnny | talk 01:12, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Wouldn't such an account need not only bot status but admin status as well in order to be able to delete pages? --<span style="font: bold 10pt 'courier new', comic, sans, ms;"><font color="midnightblue">dark [[Image:Yin yang.svg|12px]] lama 01:31, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Hmm, yes, it would. So much for that idea :). -- SB_Johnny | talk 12:20, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Orphans
Started doing my cleanup and hit the orphaned pages - I've cleared a few up anyway. However there were some Gardening ones which I've now put on the index page so they are not orphaned. I was wondering if you thought the index page should stay strictly "index" (& if so use an alpha TOC as it grows) or whether a cross TOC (Plants, Techniques, Pests etc)/Index was worth a look. When I'm home I'll try and find time to run AWB again to clear up the alpha cat'ing and anything else. -- Herby talk thyme 12:45, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Moving pages
I've just found that you've gone through some of Puzzles moving pages to conform to a "naming convention".

Before you do any more of this, either to Puzzles or to any other wikibook, please: -- Smjg 09:56, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Look on the talk page of the book's main page to check that there isn't already a naming convention being discussed and/or implemented for the book, with which the one you are about to implement may conflict.  If you wish to propose your convention as a better alternative, by all means propose it, and give people time to comment before you implement it.
 * 2) Be sure to think about how the pages are named, rather than blindly copying the existing names (and thereby perpetuating such problems as miscapitalisation or needless repetition of the same word).

Transwiki: is now a namespace on wikibooks, and we need all pages currently named as "Talk:Transwiki:..." to "Transwiki_talk:..."
 * OK. tsca ✉ 13:12, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. tsca ✉ 14:15, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Cat'ing
First run done. Some uncat'ed. Let me know if you want anything else -- Herby talk thyme 08:56, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:SBJohnny/Archive 2


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Template:Now merged

Pages with this template are added to Category:History merge requests

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Template:Now merged


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Wikibooks:Original research

Original research refers to any facts, theories, ideas, data, opinions, or claims that have not yet been subject to peer review by experts and/or have not yet been included elsewhere by a reliable publication. In principle, Wikibooks discourages original research. In practice, however, Wikibooks allows material based on repeatable information from personal experiences or from common knowledge when published literature might reasonably support it, or consensus might reasonably agree with its inclusion. If questions do arise, questionable material must cite a reliable publication to be kept.

Textbooks are typically, but not always, tertiary sources that draw on previously published reviews and syntheses for their content. On the other hand, referring to external sources may sometimes be unnecessary or impractical, such as for recipes in a cookbook. Wikibooks should draw on other sources in situations where published textbooks would reasonably do so.

Note that material deemed inappropriate by consensus may be excluded, even if material might otherwise satisfy what is stated below.

Verifiable
The existence of information on the Internet or in publications alone does not make information "verifiable". Information is verifiable when subject to peer review by experts and reliable publications include it. A publication is reliable when the publication and information published by them has itself been subject to peer view by experts. Information that is reasonably safe and easy to demonstrate, apply, and repeat may also be verifiable when results or conclusions are reasonably consistent with the information. A recipe in a cookbook is verifiable when reasonably safe and easy for anyone to demonstrate, apply, and repeat a recipe's directions, and the results are reasonably consistent with the recipe's directions for example.

Wikibooks includes information which is or may reasonably be verifiable, and what reliable publications would reasonably include. This may include new uses for a particular product, new methods for performing a common task, or exposition of hidden (undocumented) features in existing products when safe and easy to do. Contributors may decide to include or exclude a recipe from a cookbook when a reliable and published cookbook would reasonably do so for example. If reasonable questions do arise, questionable information must cite a reliable publication to be kept.

Presentation
The Wikibooks project does not include the traditional definition of "textbooks". Wikibooks may and should present or explain information in original ways, including original content arrangements, chapter organization, and titles for books, chapters, and pages. The exact presentation and style should be defined in a book's manual of style, and is defined at the discretion of book contributors.

Vocabulary
Original vocabulary and original definitions for words are allowed when it conveys better understanding of material. The specific vocabulary and definitions to use is up to the discretion of book contributors.

Common knowledge
Wikibooks may contain information that is considered "common knowledge", either to a general audience, or to the specific target audience of the particular book. University students are likely to have more common knowledge then elementary school students, etc.

Citations and bibliography
Textbooks, especially those containing information beyond what is considered "common knowledge" should contain proper citations and bibliographies. Unlike Wikipedia articles, individual Wikibooks may (at the discretion of the participating authors) forgo footnotes and instead create a separate chapter for citations and bibliographies.

it:Wikibooks:Ricerche originali

title: Wikibooks:Original research


text:
Free ABA Basics

Contents

 * /Introduction/
 * /Contributing/
 * /Authors/
 * Discrete trial teaching, of repetition
 * /Modeling/
 * /Narration/
 * /Errorless Teaching/
 * Hand-over-hand shaping, prompting and fading... to mastery
 * Teaching from simple to complex (incorporates cognitive aspects)
 * Teaching to the interests (of feelings, of senses) of the child
 * Turn-taking (of modelling, and social reward, to play)
 * Visualization and emotional expression, to social interaction
 * Fading primary reinforcement as the child masters and understands what he/she has to do
 * /Assessment/

title: Free ABA Basics


text:
Template:Free ABA Basics

Introduction | Contributing | Authors | Discrete Trials | Assessment

title: Template:Free ABA Basics


text:
User talk:AWolf

Hi,

Just so you know, wikiversity has moved. Pages here are now being moved there, so please make any new pages on main page, rather than in the Wikiversity namespace here (we're kind of hoping to get it all moved ASAP).

I'm an admin ("Custodian") on wikiversity, so if you'd like a page imported, let me know either there or here. -- SB_Johnny | talk 23:11, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:AWolf


text:
Windows Programming/User Interface Controls

Some predefined window classes are intended for use as user interface controls. They're commonly known as "standard Windows controls" and "common controls".

Usages of these UI controls should be documented in task-oriented categories, not on an API-oriented basis.

Standard Windows Controls
Standard Windows controls are implemented in USER32.DLL (former USER.EXE), and later (Windows XP+) subclassified by COMCTL32.DLL for Luna look&feel.

These are always present. No initialization is necessary. Available with Windows 2, ListBox and ComboBox with Windows 3.

Static Control
Static controls are “controls” with no interaction with user.

A static control is a child window that displays either text, bitmap image, or icon. Static controls cannot be selected and do not receive focus from the keyboard. They can, however, receive mouse input with use of SS_NOTIFY. This will allow the control to detect click and double-click with the WM_NOTIFY event from its parent.

Static Text (Label)
A label should be placed before the control it refers. When done so, pressing Alt+Hotkey will move the focus to the next possible control automatically with no line of code.

Labels can also be used for showing the appropriate physical unit right to a Single-Line Edit Control. Because such text never acts as a label, the logical order (Z order) is not important. The style bit SS_NOPREFIX can be used to avoid problems with Ampersand (&) character.

Example Code

 * Create Label

The label Static Control should be a child of another window, either a main window or a child window. To create it, all you need to do is call CreateWindow with the STATIC class and the parameters of your choice. Below is the basic code to create it.

/*Create a Static Label control*/

hwndLabel = CreateWindow(                       TEXT("STATIC"),                   /*The name of the static control's class*/                        TEXT("Label 1"),                  /*Label's Text*/                        WS_CHILD | WS_VISIBLE | SS_LEFT,  /*Styles (continued)*/                        0,                                /*X co-ordinates*/                        0,                                /*Y co-ordinates*/                        50,                               /*Width*/                        25,                               /*Height*/                        hwnd,                             /*Parent HWND*/                        (HMENU) ID_MYSTATIC,              /*The Label's ID*/                        hInstance,                        /*The HINSTANCE of your program*/                         NULL);                            /*Parameters for main window*/

Using the Label

 * Setting Label's Text

To set the text of your Label (static control), use the SendMessage function with the WM_SETTEXT message.

/*Setting the Label's text /*You may need to cast the text as (LPARAM)*/

SendMessage(  hwndLabel,                /*HWND    Label*/   WM_SETTEXT,  	      /*UINT    Message*/   NULL,                      /*WPARAM  Unused*/   (LPARAM) TEXT("Hello"));   /*LPARAM  Text*/

Image (Bitmap, Icon, Metafile)
With other style bits, bitmaps or icons can be shown – with no line of code when the source image is placed in the same resource.

Metafile support was added with Windows 95.

Rectangles (Divider lines when tall)
Static controls can be used to draw grouping rectangles or divider lines.

Button
Buttons are controls with a simple user interface.

Push Button
Everyone should be familiar with the windows push button. It is simply a raised square with text inside it, and when you click usually something happens.

Example Code
As with all windows controls the push button is a child of your window be it the main window or another child. So to implement it into your program you merely need to call the CreateWindow function. Below is a line of code to create a button.

 * Create Button

// create button and store the handle

HWND hwndButton = CreateWindow (TEXT("button"),                     // The class name required is button                               TEXT("Push Button"),                  // the caption of the button                               WS_CHILD |WS_VISIBLE | BS_PUSHBUTTON,  // the styles                               0,0,                                  // the left and top co-ordinates                               100,300,                              // width and height                               hwnd,                                 // parent window handle                               (HMENU)ID_MYBUTTON,                   // the ID of your button                               hInstance,                            // the instance of your application                               NULL) ;                               // extra bits you don't really need

this will create the button for you but it will NOT do anything on a click. In order to do that you need to go into your Windows Procedure function and handle the WM_COMMAND event. In the WM_COMMAND event the low word in the wparam is the ID of the child that has caused the event. So to ensure that you have received a message from your button ensure that the ID's are the same.

 * Test button ID

// compare button ID to message ID if(ID_MYBUTTON == LOWORD(wparam)) {   /* it's your button so do some work */ }

So now you know that your button has been pressed you need to find out what has happened to it so we process the notification code that is stored in the High Word of the wparam. The notification code you need to watch for is BN_CLICKED.

 * Test notification

// compare Notification to message Notification if(BN_CLICKED == HIWORD(wparam)) {   /* the button has been clicked do some stuff */ }

One last thing you may need to know is that lparam contains the handle to the button pressed.

Ownerdrawn Button
This type can implement anything. In many cases, such buttons are disabled (WS_DISABLED, i.e. no user input) and used to draw anything else into a dialog. In that case, it acts as a handy placeholder for the actual painting, as the pixel size of the dialog and thus the control varies on the user's dpi setting and current font metric.

Split button
Introduced with Windows Vista, this button has an additional combo box drop-down field, typically to change the behaviour of this push button before pressing.

Checkbox
Checkboxes can be solely or collected to a group. In a group, a multiple-choice selection can be done. Furthermore, a Three-State checkbox is possible. This state should be used for “Don't know”, or “Differently checked choices below” as in Windows Setup Control Panel application.

For a good implementation of checkboxes, following rules should be followed at compile time, typically using a Resource Editor:

 * All checkboxes should have the BS_AUTOCHECKBOX style bit set, otherwise, program logic must handle clicks
 * A solely checkbox or the first checkbox of a group should have WS_GROUP style bit set
 * Other checkboxes should not have the WS_GROUP style bit
 * The next control after the checkboxes must have WS_GROUP set. Otherwise, the arrow right/down key will not circle the focus around but fall into the next control (perhaps an Edit control)
 * Checkbox groups must be contiguously ordered
 * Placing WS_TABSTOP is not mandatory. Typically, every checkbox get this style bit set.

If done so, the Arrow keys will move the focus as expected, and the space bar will toggle its state without one line of code.

A check box group should not be used for more than 7 options. If more options are available, or the count is unknown at compile time, a Checked List Box should be used.

Radio Button
Radio buttons are always in a group of at least 2, typically 3..7 choices. They release each-other, and only one can be selected (checked) an one time. Although possible, program logic should avoid that no or more than one radio button is checked. Windows (more precisely, the function IsDialogMessage which is processed in a message pump loop as when calling DialogBox) ensures this behaviour with no line of code automatically when:

 * All buttons have BS_AUTORADIOBUTTON style bit set
 * The first Radio Button of a group has WS_GROUP style
 * The other Radio Buttons has no WS_GROUP style
 * The Radio Buttons are contiguous ordered in dialog template resp. CreateWindowEx calls (that is, the Z order)

Radio buttons should not have the WS_TABSTOP style bit set. Windows automatically sets the focus on TAB key to the selected radio button.

Radio buttons should not be used for more than 7 options. (This is out of the "3..7 choices rule" for good GUI design.) If more options are available, or the count is unknown at compile time, a combo box should be used.

The next control after the Radio Button group should have WS_GROUP bit set. Otherwise, the arrow right/down key doesn't work at user's expectation: The focus will jump to the next control instead of circling around the Radio Button group.

Example Code
That's all you need to implement a button in a Win32 Application using the API

 * Radio Button

HWND hRadio =CreateWindow(TEXT("button"), TEXT("&Red"),               WS_CHILD | WS_VISIBLE | BS_AUTORADIOBUTTON,                20, 155, 100, 30, hDlg, (HMENU)ID_RED, GetModuleHandle(NULL), NULL);

Btw. almost nobody creates radio buttons with CreateWindow. Typically it is placed into an RC file with following line: AUTORADIOBUTTON "&title",id,left,top,width,height[,morestyles] One ampersand for the window title will create a hotkey function. While CreateWindow takes pixel coordinates, the RC file entry takes Dialog Base Units for the four metrics.

Group Box
This is not a real button and has no interaction at all. It's class name is "BUTTON" too. This element is typically used to visually group radio buttons. It does not create a child element as its .NET counterpart.

Group boxes should be placed before its visual content. When done so, pressing Alt+Hotkey will move the focus to the next possible control automatically, with no line of code.

Scroll Bar
Whereas Scroll Bars can be attached to any window or control (and is not a window with a handle itself), a Scroll Bar Control is a true window with a handle. These can be created horizontally (SB_HORZ) or vertically (SB_VERT).

In the days before the Common Controls Progress Bar and Track Bar, someone had “misused” this control to set the volume for a speaker, or to show the progress of a lengthy process. Nowadays, single scroll bars are never used for such purposes.

However, scroll bars are necessary for sharing a Status Bar with a Horizontal Scroll bar, as known from Acrobat Reader or some office software. Because standard scroll bars are always as long as its window, not shorter.

Edit Control
The Edit control is the standard base object for text editing and display (it is commonly called a TextBox).

The Edit control has a quite large number of styles.

Single-Line Edit
Single-line edit controls are typically used for entering short descriptions, file names, parameters, and numbers. Although the style WS_VSCROLL is supported and shows a small vertical scroll bar like an up-down control, nothing else happens. Typically, ES_AUTOHSCROLL is used to move the content horizontally when text does not fit into the given space. The font can be changed programatically, but intermixing fonts and/or colors is not possible. For such purposes, the RichEdit control exists.

Multi-Line Edit
Multi-line edits look like Notepad.exe. Indeed, Notepad is just an Edit control with a frame window that supports the menu, load/save, resizing etc. All other functionality, even the context menu, the Unicode and Right-To-Left support, is already built into this control.

// create a text box and store the handle

HWND hwndText = CreateWindow(                              TEXT("edit"),                              // The class name required is edit                               TEXT(""),                                 // Default text.                               WS_VISIBLE | WS_CHILD | WS_BORDER | WS_HSCROLL | WS_VSCROLL| ES_MULTILINE | ES_AUTOHSCROLL, // the styles                               0,0,                                      // the left and top co-ordinates                               100,300,                                  // width and height                               hwnd,                                     // parent window handle                               (HMENU)ID_MYTEXT,                         // the ID of your editbox                               hInstance,                                // the instance of your application                               NULL                            );                                   // extra bits you dont really need

Here are the styles used in the example:

// Set the text. SendMessage(hwndText, WM_SETTEXT, 0, (LPARAM)"Hello");

// Get the text. LRESULT iTextSize = SendMessage(hwndText, EM_GETLIMITTEXT, 0, 0); char *szText = new char[iTextSize]; SendMessage(hwndText, WM_GETTEXT, iTextSize, (LPARAM)szText);

Multiline edits require "\r\n" as line delimiter, nothing else. Otherwise, strange behaviour on some Windows versions may occur. The accompanying parent window dialog style DS_LOCALEDIT is superfluous for Win32. There is no way to access the internal text buffer directly (EM_GETHANDLE doesn't work), so you have to use GetWindowText with a sufficiently large buffer to get a copy.

Edit controls behave differently in comparison to all other controls as they notify the parent with EN_CHANGE and EN_UPDATE when changing its content programmatically. An infinite loop can easily occur when multiple edits have circular dependencies. There are some workarounds to cope with this problem:
 * On EN_CHANGE, call SetTimer with some small delay. And after SetWindowText/SetDlgItemText/SetDlgItemInt, call KillTimer to remove the timer before the WM_TIMER handler gets called. Handle actual change in timer routine. This can be handy if OnChange processing is somehow lengthy but pressing the ENTER key should be avoided. For example for setting the dish position for a radio receiver where you can enter both an arbitrary longitude or a step-motor position.
 * On EN_CHANGE, check for EM_GETMODIFY. Clear the Modify Flag before SetWindowText.
 * Use a global variable ("bool NoEditChange") that you check on EN_CHANGE. Set it to true before SetWindowText, and to false when you are done. As usual dialogs are fully single-threaded, no race condition will occur here.

List Box
A list box can have tabulators so it can show somehow tabulated entries. This control is not so commonly used, except in spreadsheet-alike applications. It's main purpose is to deliver the Drop-Down Combo Boxes the pop-up List Box.

Combo Box
This control has three appearances.

Simple Combo Box (non-editable)
This type is very rarely used and not worth an explanation.

Non-editable Drop-Down Combo Box
Use this when the user has to choose out of some options.

On creation, use a large height. It sets the maximum height of the dropped-down list box. If less options are available, Windows will shrink its length automatically, but never extends. And scrolling here is annoying. (Note that Windows 3.x doesn't shink.) The height of the remaining control is 13 dialog units. (You need the number 13 when you combine it with similar Edit controls.)

// create a combo box and store the handle

HWND hwndCombo = CreateWindow (TEXT("combobox"),                        // The class name required is combobox                               TEXT(""),                                 // not used, ignored.                               WS_CHILD | WS_VISIBLE | CBS_DROPDOWNLIST, // the styles                               0,0,                                      // the left and top co-ordinates                               100,300,                                  // width and height                               hwnd,                                     // parent window handle                               (HMENU)ID_MYCOMBO,                        // the ID of your combobox                               hInstance,                                // the instance of your application                               NULL) ;                                   // extra bits you dont really need

The displayed height of the actual widget will be automatically changed depending on the font. The "unused" part of the height will be devoted to the size of the drop down menu.

For example, only 33 pixels of the 300 pixel height will be to the selected item. When the down button is clicked, the menu will be 267 pixels in height.

There are other combo box styles: CBS_SIMPLE (similar to a list box) and CBS_DROPDOWN (similar to CBS_DROPDOWNLIST but the selected field is editable).

// Add a list of strings to the combo box.

SendMessage(             hwndCombo,                    // The handle of the combo box              CB_ADDSTRING,                 // Tells the combo box to append this string to its list              0,                            // Not used, ignored.              (LPARAM) "Item A"             // The string to add.           );

SendMessage(hwndCombo, CB_ADDSTRING, 0, (LPARAM) "Item B"); SendMessage(hwndCombo, CB_ADDSTRING, 0, (LPARAM) "Item C"); SendMessage(hwndCombo, CB_ADDSTRING, 0, (LPARAM) "Item D"); SendMessage(hwndCombo, CB_ADDSTRING, 0, (LPARAM) "Item E");

// Select the default item to be "Item C". SendMessage(             hwndCombo,                    // The handle of the combo b,              CB_SETCURSEL,                 // Tells the combo box to select the specified index              2,                            // The index of the item to select (starting at zero)              0                             // Not used, ignored.           );

Editable Drop-Down Combobox
Use it when the user can enter single-line text or can take some predefined strings. A typical example is choosing an URL or number with history function. Or selecting a port address, allowing to enter a yet-not-known port address.

Common Controls
Common controls were introduced roughly with Windows 3.11, and somehow constantly expanded both in functionality and in appearance. Note that, when using Windows XP Luna style or newer, the standard controls above gets automatically subclassified by comctl32.dll's code. A manifest resource controls this behaviour.

The version and functionality of Common Controls DLL heavily depends on version of Internet Explorer installed.

Header and Linking Requirements
Using Common Controls requires linking to comctl32.lib and including commctrl.h. Whereas some controls are there by default, some other need initialization with InitCommonControlsEx. It depends on operating system, so it's wise to always call InitCommonControlsEx with the right bits for the controls your application needs.

The function InitCommonControls does nothing but ensures that the library is loaded when you don't link to any other Common Controls library function (like CreateToolBar). Surely, the Windows 3.11 classes were registered at load time of the DLL.

Common controls are typically used like regular dialog elements. The dialog resource template, introduced roughly with Windows 2.0, reserves space for user class names if these are not STATIC, BUTTON, EDIT, LISTBOX, COMBOBOX, or SCROLLBAR, the standard controls above. Therefore, examples may show how to create a child window using CreateWindowEx, but that's quite uncommon because including them into a dialog template is much easier.

Tool Bar
Introduced: Windows 3.11 case WM_VSCROLL: {         int scrollMsg = (int)LOWORD(wParam); int pos = (short int)HIWORD(wParam); SCROLLINFO scrollInfo; GetScrollInfo(hTextOutput, SB_VERT, &scrollInfo); switch (scrollMsg) {             case SB_LINEUP: {                 if (pos > 0) {                     pos--; }             }              break; case SB_LINEDOWN: {                 if (pos < scrollInfo.nMax) {                     pos++; }             }              break; }         scrollInfo.fMask = SIF_POS; scrollInfo.nPos = pos; SetScrollInfo (hTextOutput, SB_VERT, &scrollInfo, TRUE); }

Status Bar (Status Strip)
Note that the documentation of CalcEffectiveClientRect is mostly erraneous: The first UINT/BOOL pair of the array is not used at all.

Date/Time Picker
Introduced: Windows 95

Up/Down Control
Mostly it's attached to an edit window so it looks like one with a tiny vertical scroll bar. Indeed, the trick with the scroll bar was widely used in the days of Windows 3.x. But now it looks worse than this control.

Up/Down controls automate integer counting and limit watching. They can automatically fit to their “buddy” window, so no code for placement is necessary. Edit controls are automatically shrunken horizontally, as if a vertical scroll bar were added.

Possible buddy windows are single-line edits, progress bars, and trackbars.

Unluckily, Win32 Up/Down Controls won't work with decimals, in opposite to the .NET counterpart. So you have to code a bunch of boring lines to implement .NET behaviour.

Edits with Up/Down control should have a height of 14 dialog base units for best appearance. Unluckily, the text content appears a bit too high (i.e. misaligned) when using standard Windows scheme.

Tab Control
This control is rarely used directly. The Property Sheet uses it heavily.

A Tab Control is needed when more controls around the tabs are needed. Property Sheets can have only some buttons on the lower side. When really used, each tab should control a child dialog (WS_CHILD style set) which is then a child of the parent dialog (not a child of the tab control!). The resource should be carefully planned, so no code for actual placement is needed. While the Property Sheet initializes every child late on first invocation (to save time), it's up to the problem whether you copy this behaviour or initialize all childs at showup. Clicking a tab should ShowWindow(...,SW_HIDE) the current child dialog, and ShowWindow(...,SW_SHOW) the wanted one.

Child dialogs are introduced with Property Sheets (Win95), not with the Tab Controls (Win32s). These have the following behaviour:
 * All its controls disappear when the Child dialog disappears – i.e. true hierarchy
 * Their child's tab order will be processed as if these are in the parent dialog
 * Nesting childs are not officially supported
 * Each has its own Dialog Procedure
 * The Dialog Font must be the same as for the Parent Dialog

Tooltip
Balloon-style tooltips were introduced quite late, with Windows XP. Therefore, most programs still use standard black-on-yellow rectangular tooltips.

List View, Tree View
The Windows Explorer is a perfect example for both controls. The left pane usually shows a directory Tree, and the right pane a file List. Also, the desktop itself is (very similar to a) List View.

static const INITCOMMONCONTROLSEX icc={sizeof(icc),ICC_TREEVIEW_CLASSES}; InitCommonControlsEx(&icc);

Combo Box Ex
Introduced: Windows 95.

Extra features:
 * Image at the left side to the text
 * Different images possible for selected items (but rarely used)

Caveats:
 * Cumbersome initializing
 * Don't forget InitCommonControlsEx!
 * Larger binary resource

What it is
A standard bar graph that displays progress of an item. Shows a graphical representation of amount completed over amount total.

Example code

 * Create Progress Bar

The Progress Bar control should be a child of another window, either a main window or a child window. To create it, all you need to do is call CreateWindow with the PROGRESS_CLASS class and the parameters of your choice. Below is the basic code to create it.

/*Create a Progress Bar*/

HWND hwndProgress = CreateWindow(			PROGRESS_CLASS,		/*The name of the progress class*/			NULL, 			/*Caption Text*/			WS_CHILD | WS_VISIBLE,	/*Styles*/			0, 			/*X co-ordinates*/			0, 			/*Y co-ordinates*/			200, 			/*Width*/			30, 			/*Height*/			hwnd, 			/*Parent HWND*/			(HMENU) ID_MYPROGRESS, 	/*The Progress Bar's ID*/			hInstance,		/*The HINSTANCE of your program*/ 			NULL);			/*Parameters for main window*/

 * Using the Progress Bar

 * Changing position

There are three ways to increment/decrement the progress bar. PBM_DELTAPOS steps by a given number. PBM_SETPOS sets a specific position. PBM_SETSTEP sets an increment/decrement number, and PBM_STEPIT steps with that number.

 * Delta Position
 * PBM_DELTAPOS advances the progress bar with a number given as the wparam.

/*Advance progress bar by 25 units*/

SendMessage(	hwndProgress ,	/*HWND*/	/*Progress Bar*/		PBM_DELTAPOS, 	/*UINT*/	/*Message*/		25,		/*WPARAM*/	/*Units*/		NULL)		/*LPARAM*/	/*Unused*/

 * Set Position
 * PBM_SETPOS advances the progress bar to the specified position in the WPARAM

/*Advances progress bar to specified position (50)*/

SendMessage(	hwndProgress ,	/*HWND*/	/*Progress Bar*/		PBM_SETPOS, 	/*UINT*/	/*Message*/		50,		/*WPARAM*/	/*Units*/		NULL)		/*LPARAM*/	/*Unused*/

 * Stepping Position
 * PBM_SETSTEP specifies the amount of units to step. PBM_STEPIT advances by the amount of units given with PBM_SETSTEP (default 10 units).

/*Advances progress bar by specified units*/

/*If progress bar is stepped when at the progress bar's maximum, /* the progress bar will go back to its starting position*/

/*Set the step*/ SendMessage(	hwndProgress ,	/*HWND*/	/*Progress Bar*/		PBM_SETSTEP, 	/*UINT*/	/*Message*/		1,		/*WPARAM*/	/*Amount to step by*/		NULL)		/*LPARAM*/	/*Unused*/

/*Step*/ SendMessage(	hwndProgress ,	/*HWND*/	/*Progress Bar*/		PBM_STEPIT, 	/*UINT*/	/*Message*/		NULL,		/*WPARAM*/	/*Unused*/		NULL)		/*LPARAM*/	/*Unused*/

Next Chapter

 * GDI and Drawing


text:
User talk:Diplomat~enwikibooks

Wikiversity has been created! You'll find the new School of History here. 128.187.0.164 01:48, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Welcome!
Hello User:Diplomat! Welcome to wikibooks!

I see that you are creating a group project, that's a great idea! The wikibooks community has written up a set of guidelines of group projects like yours: Guidelines for class projects. I would recommend you read these few guidelines so that you and your group can get off to the right foot. Also, if you don't mind, would you please register your project at List of class projects? It helps the community keep track of who is doing what. I am User:Whiteknight, and if you need anything at all, please don't hesitate to leave me a message on my user talk page, HERE. --Whiteknight (talk) (projects) 23:24, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Diplomat. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Diplomat~enwikibooks that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:10, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 04:53, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Diplomat~enwikibooks


text:
User:DGG

Please contact me by email, as I rarely work on this Wiki project-- of find me on Wiklpedia, under the same username.

title: User:DGG


text:
FHSST Biology/Contents/Index/TCMS/Cells and genetics/Cell division/Mitosis

Mitosis is the process by which a cell divides into two identical daughter cells with the same number of chromosomes as the original. There are 4 phases in mitosis: Prophase, Metaphase, Anaphase, Telophase. (Memorizing tip: PMAT - Pee on a MAT.) Mitosis is preceded by Interphase where genetic information in a cell (DNA, deoxyribonucleic acid) is duplicated.