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Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals/archives/2010/September

wikt:MediaWiki:Gadget-WiktSidebarTranslation.js
It would be elegant to import this gadget, especially for those who have never installed any additional fonts. It just translates the interwiki links into English, you can test it by ticking it here. JackPotte (talk) 09:16, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not really sure if its relevant here. I'd like people to show interest before importing it. Bawolff ☺☻ 17:36, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Why not? Diego Grez return fire 20:53, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * It could be useful for checking interwikis before sighting them. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 20:54, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Does it resolve a known problem or issue? the point is, en.wikinews is already loading a large collection of scripts and (worse!) script libraries which do not do anything 99% of the time. For edge-case users (specialty browsers for disability, old hardware, poor or per-kb-billing internet connectivity, old browsers, etc.) this is already a burden, and should not be added to unless there is a demonstrated need. -  Amgine | t 14:27, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

 * A better solution to that problem might be to kill off some of the crap... Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 19:59, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

 * How many o the gadget goodies could be done away with, or moved server-side as PHP? --Brian McNeil / talk 20:29, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

 * In terms of demonstrated need (Brian's beloved "What is the problem you're trying to solve?"), it is important to translate the titles of interwikis before sighting them. I have previously refused to allow additions of interwikis because, although the other article was about essentially the same thing, it was on another aspect, usually from the day before or after our article, and therefore was not an appropriate addition. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 18:53, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

New Main Page Proposal
Hi all, I have created a new main page proposal that I think eliminates a lot of whitespace currently present and organizes it more. The proposal is here. Please leave feedback on the talkpage, I would love to get this implemented! red  - thunder  .  01:35, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
 * It does eliminate whitespace, yes. But at the cost of being extremely busy on non-widescreens.  On my widescreen, it's fine, but the non... the entire page just feels like one large blob of text.  Also, I'm not enthused with pushing the Latest News section down so far, making is "less important".  -- Shakata Ga Nai  ^_^ 09:04, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with SGN. Also, in my browser the Welcome to Wikinews banner at the top extends to the left. Kayau (talk · contribs) 10:55, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * That's too crowded, and I don't like the font. Can we please stick to Arial, or at least a sans-serif font? Serif fonts are hard to read on screens, and the main page really ought to use the same font as the rest of the site. Δεν δοδγε  τ\c 10:34, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Related to Dendodge's comments: in general online body texts are sans-serif, headers are often serif. I don't like Arial, but think we should leave the choice of font up to the user's browser; just use font-family:sans-serif;. I personally am not fond of colored backgrounds except where necessary to highlight or provide emphasis. Keep in mind most users will see the main page in the Vector skin, but not everyone. What does it look like in monobook? Simple? etc. -  Amgine | t 20:02, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Chick, Classic, Cologne Blue, MonoBook, My Skin, Nostalgia, Simple, and Vector. — Mike moral  ♪♫  20:12, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Mikemoral (and Dendodge)... Oddly enough, it almost looks great in CologneBlue (on Ubuntu FF). If the two blue backgrounds were tones of the top banner... -  Amgine | t 23:22, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Agree. Perhaps use some more brilliant colors? --Diego Grez return fire 23:39, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback guys. I changed the font to Arial per request. If anyone wants to make any improvements whatsoever, please go ahead and do so. If we work together on this, I'm sure it will come out great. Cheers, red  - thunder  .  00:52, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Featured pictures
Wikipedia finally has something good to give. We have Featured Articles, why can't we have Featured Pictures? I've been thinking about this for some time and finally I attempted to comment about it. The only criteria to become a featured picture would be that the picture must illustrate a (past or current) news article. Open to thoughts :) Diego Grez return fire 01:20, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

 * If we do this, we shouldn't accept fair use pictures either. This would be a great way to resurrect Picture of the Year: at the end of each year, all the pics featured from articles that year go up for selection to Pic of the Year. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 11:40, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

 * I support that even though I am not very active in this community. --Mattwj2002 (talk) 23:40, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Changing how we handle shorts
At present our handling of shorts is less then ideal. It is impossible to find a short in a category other then by guessing. Search has gotten better, but is still handles them poorly. RSS and Twitter display them oddly as well. You also have no idea what the shorts are going to be before you click on it.

I would like to propose making the following changes:
 * All shorts sections would be their own articles
 * We tag them with a category that we exclude from the normal list on the main page
 * We add a section to the main page (below the normal articles?) that we dpl in the days shorts

These changes fix all of the problems I listed above and also make reviewing much easier (only have to review one section at a time). Secondary benefits include making our coverage appear to be more comprehensive and encouraging more people to write shorts via better exposure (and with luck eventually graduate into writing full articles). Thoughts?--Cspurrier (talk) 01:02, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Oh yes! This should stop good shorts getting stuck in review treacle.

 * Let's have a distinctive headline style, to set expectations in headline feeds, search results and portals. I propose starting each one with "Brief: " such as,
 * Brief: General Motors recalls 243,000 crossover vehicles

 * --InfantGorilla (talk) 10:03, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Suggest "In brief:" or "In short:". Note that any en.WN article may also have a short; if a standard practice were to write a single paragraph short, it could also serve as the lede for news articles (although that would entail more work in maintaining the short for articles which are still developing.) -  Amgine | t 05:43, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

 * I like your (Amgine's) suggestion for the headline.
 * Why not copy and paste the short into the lede of an expanded article? Then the short would be frozen in time, while the expanded article would be developed and published a few minutes or many hours later, by which time the opening paragraph would look a little different.
 * (It would be nice to have a forward link from the short to the in-depth version, but that is for a different discussion)
 * Shorts can also be used for brief updates on an existing full article. For example last month we published a story about a writer who was arrested by Singapore police.  48 hours later he was bailed, which was an important update, but not enough for a full article.  It would have made a good short if we could get it out quickly (rather than wait a day or two for a 'shorts' combo with 2 unrelated stories) and would be helpful to show in the news feed.  In the end, the release on bail was never reported by Wikinews (though I did mention it in 'Opinions') but nearly all other outlets that covered the original story reported the release.
 * --InfantGorilla (talk) 12:54, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Did some work on this today, but having transclusion problems. Apparently the main namespace does not allow transclusions from the main namespace. Not sure about this, but trying to figure it out. -  Amgine | t 20:48, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Without supporting infrastructure already in place (alas, we haven't worked that out yet), it doen't work properly. Due, as far as I can see, entirely to the unfortunate lagging of infrastructure behind the concept, we had [ an article] get put on the main page with a nonstandard title (advertising an erroneous publication date, which was also advertised by an erroneous date category), and no dateline (that might otherwise somewhat illuminate the situation).

In an (I believe) logically separate issue, the article didn't have any sources on the page, but instead a link to the talk page where the sources were listed. BRS had objected to this concept earlier today (and elsewhere), on the grounds IIRC that it would put the sources on an unsightable page. I'd been thinking of adding to that, that identifying the sources of the article is basic information that I would think should always be visible as part of the article itself, in order for the reader to make a basic assessment of what they're reading. --Pi zero (talk) 03:45, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

 * What is nonstandard about the title? it's more structured than our usual, but hardly non-standard. (The date involved is the Wikinews Shorts: date, not the publication date.) It's clearly a sub-page of the Wikinews Short, or at least it was before you moved the article and made it a "full" article (even though it's a stub, which should not be published in that format as a full article.) Generally when stepping into (and breaking) a process it is considered good manners to - at the least - clean up afterwards: see User talk:Gryllida as an example.)

 * As for the logically separate issue of sources... Blood Red Sandman and I agree we'd prefer to have the sources on a shorts subpage, using a collapsible template (and a sources header of Full title: Sources, to avoid the infamous MW header anchors bug.) This resolves the concern regarding flagging. I have messages out to a couple of people about importing the mostly-standardised collapsible templates; there's nothing preventing us from continuing the experiment without this functionality at this point, with the expectation it will be implemented within a few days. -  Amgine | t 04:39, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

 * (I'd been composing a comment for your talk page, but then realized it belonged here, and would have to be retargeted.) Some of my latest thoughts:
 * The concept here, as I understand it, is to have these, er, mini-articles (I'm now afraid to use the word "short" or "brief" lest we have different preconceptions of them) that each consist of a short block of unadorned prose, without any extras. Suitable for certain kinds of modern media that call for, well, a short block of unadorned prose without any extras.  I actually love that idea, and have no problem with its corollary that the list of sources would be somehow separate.
 * These mini-articles would not appear, in their unadorned form, as Main headlines. Instead, we could have aggregate frames that contain all the mini-articles for a given day.  I feel quite strongly (it turns out) that Main headlines should have the professional look of our standard article format — in other words, adorned by the very extras that we don't want in the mini-articles themselves.  Aggregate frames could, ideally, fix that, although making them do so without extensive finicky manual intervention is a nontrivial challenge.
 * I don't understand your distinction between the Shorts date and the publication date. It seems to me that the only dates involved are the date that the (mini-)article was started, which I wouldn't think would be of interest, and the date that it was published.  Ideally (to my mind), the act of publishing a mini-article would add it to the aggregate for the current date at the time of publication.  In fact, the excuse for leaving off the dateline —and the dateline is one of the extras we want to do without in the mini-article— is that that information is in the page name.  If the page name isn't the publication date, then we've lost our justification for omitting the dateline.
 * Supposing the date were publication date, I think this would be the only mini-article for the 4th. It would certainly be possible, on a one-off basis, to construct an aggregate framework that would transclude the text, but not the sources link, of the one mini-article, and the sources list of the mini-article as part of the trappings of a Main headline.  The one mini-article would be sighted but not published (a nocat parameter could be added to publish for this), and the aggregate frame would be published.  I'm reasonably sure I could figure out how to do that, anyway, although I'm unclear on whether I could do it at this point without violating the three-revert rule.
 * We are in agreement, I think, that the stub should not be published as a full article; my immediate concern was to deal, as best one could, with the lamentable fact that it already had been published as a full article, by which I mean, a Main headline. As I've said, though, making it a technically unpublished mini-article within a published aggregate frame would be another way of resolving that.
 * --Pi zero (talk) 06:31, 5 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Postscript: Although it does not in any way alter my belief that the mini-article in question should be a short for the 4th, not the 2nd, a rather messy combination of factors has led me to revert my renaming of the page; I've documented my reasons here. --Pi zero (talk) 10:31, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

Arbitrary section break: Outline of theory
My test system to create Shorts articles is based, primarily, on three things (isn't every good argument a triptych in words?):
 * It must be simple to use (in its final format) for contributors who are not en.Wikinews regulars.
 * It must have an accelerated review process - either by streamlining the requirements or by simplifying the review requirements - to get them published quickly (less than 1 hour averages.)
 * It must appear on the main page upon review via DPL, as per CSpurrier's original proposal.

The perfect system consists of three steps, to maintain the rhythm here: -  Amgine | t 00:52, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
 * An easy-to-use new short template. Just type in a proposed title, and the short should open up for editing with most of the details already done and let the contributor just write the news short. This is a step toward that ideal, but there are several important elements lacking:
 * Category addition, with a pop-up clickable news categories map
 * A pop-up js dialogue box for creating the news Short would probably be even better than the normal Mediawiki editor page.
 * A similar tool to add sources to a collapsible sources section (with an arbitrary header name, to allow for multiple source sections within an article without confusing either the TOC or the #target in links.)
 * Integration with the Easy Peer Review, allowing a similar (but streamlined/simplified) review process.
 * Publication where contributors can see their work.
 * A DPL section on the main page; preferably one which can collapse itself if empty, and which is able to select shorts from the past X hours rather than the past X days.
 * A permanent link within a Wikinews Shorts: article, one which is much more graceful and attractive than the current model.

 * We need to really work at not letting our standards drop; they easily could, if we put too much emphasis on rapid turnover. The five criteria for WN:Reviewing articles are all still applicable, but turnover will of course be faster because
 * a vastly shorter style guide can (and should) be written for lightweight articles, omitting all the geegaws that don't occur in lightweight articles, and
 * what's left won't take as long because there's less article content to review.
 * Looking over WN:Tips on reviewing articles, I'd say a lightweight variant checklist would probably be about half as long. --Pi zero (talk) 02:49, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

 * While we need to keep an eye on standards, if the choice is between content creation/community growth and well-regulated content quality I would suggest content creation/community growth is more important at the moment. This is a moving target and balancing act - trying to get the best ratio of regulatory oversight to happy and productive community - and I believe it is currently too focused on the former. This too will change, and being too correct is never "bad".

 * (As a side explanatory note: there was review process when I first became involved in Wikinews, and I was instrumental as a part of the community in eliminating it. Doesn't mean I don't think there should be review processes, only that they are very prone to Instruction creep and tend to strangle productivity unless they are kept in the subsidiary role to which they rightly belong. Our purpose isn't to edit news, it is to write it.) -  Amgine | t 19:45, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

 * "If the choice is between ..." There is no such choice.  There is no choice between quality control and anything else.  Quality control is a sine qua non; without it we'd be an inferior sort of community blog, with no good reason for existing.  We want to improve by getting things out the door faster.  We want to improve by growing.  Quality control is an inherent feature of the landscape where we want to do those things.  Put it this way: without quality control, the project would not grow, it would wither and die.  When you first joined the project, we weren't carried by Google news.  Eventually we mean to be accepted by Wikipedia as a reliable source.  Quality control is the future of Wikinews, if it is to have a future.  Since lightweight articles are meant to propagate fast and widely, it's crucial to control for quality (as with full articles, of course).

 * Right now, by the way, we're at a point of crisis where we need to improve our quality control; as I've observed elsewhere recently, the existing peer review infrastructure is pushing the upper limits of its optimal volume range, and faltering under its load, causing increasing frequency of publication mistakes and increasing stress in the community. --Pi zero (talk) 23:23, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

 * I think we have a fundamental disagreement which may not be resolvable. It's my opinion the sine qua non of Wikinews is the community, without which there will be neither content nor reviews. Your contention is that it is our quality control. My response to the current "crisis" is to increase the size of the community, while yours is to defend the standard of quality. Neither is necessarily better than the other, but I think mine can lead to yours, while I do not see how yours can lead to mine.
 * I'm sure you have the best interests of en.Wikinews at heart. I hope you can see my own is also to improve the project, and that we should collaborate or at least not sabotage each other. -  Amgine | t 02:29, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

 * It seems, from your characterization (caricature?) of my position, that we have not yet achieved mutual understanding.
 * I have not said, and do not believe, that quality control is "the sine qua non" of Wikinews. I would find that proposition absurd.  My drastically different statement was that quality control is a sine qua non of Wikinews.
 * It seems to me that you are defining into existence an entirely fictional opposition between community and quality control. To me, that's just as absurd as (and very closely related to) the idea that it is even possible to put quality control "ahead" of community.  We are a community in common cause, and an intrinsic part of that cause is quality control.  It is certainly possible to create a community of people who aren't interested in the quality of their output, but that's got nothing to do with Wikinews.
 * Do you seriously think it possible that I would consider community unimportant to a wiki? Sigh.  Okay, for the record:  it is meaningless to talk about Wikinews independent of its community (because it's a wiki), just as it is meaningless to talk about Wikinews independent of its quality control (because it's a news site).  I choose to believe in the possibility of something that is both a wiki and a news site, and my conduct here flows from that belief; in particular, that belief rejects the idea that community and quality control must be traded off against each other.  --Pi zero (talk) 06:41, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Arbitrary section break: Abbas article event
There have been issues surrounding the publication of the Abbas short. Wikinews has not been harmed by this. Template:Main headlines should not be displaying any article which has Category:No publish added to it. It was still displaying the article a few moments ago, then I re-added the cat and it disappeared. (We could add notcategory=brief or notcategory=Wikinews Shorts to the Main headlines dpl to insure this doesn't happen in the future.) -  Amgine | t 01:00, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

 * The description of Category:Wikinews Shorts says that those articles are compilations; so they should appear in Main headlines.

 * Category:Brief doesn't have a description, but it looks like it might be intended particularly for the Audio Wikinews Briefs. So maybe we shouldn't use that category for this purpose, either.

 * Perhaps something like Category:Lightweight articles?

 * A special variant publish tag —, or whatever— could add the category (whatever it is) automatically.  Keeping the whole publication machinery separate, such as using a separate publication template, seems like a good idea.  --Pi zero (talk) 02:27, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

 * I don't have strong opinions one way or another. The concept of the news briefs was, actually, to be a multi-use short news article, suitable for audio recording but certainly not limited to it, and possibly to serve as a variety of teaser text. Some were written as subpages of the full-length articles: Title/Newsbrief title. Then as now it was experimental. The lovely thing about a wiki is, if something works and develops a tradition, it is policy; if it doesn't work or causes problems, it can be fixed easily. Wikinews is not paper. It is quite malleable, and able to take twisting and change. - <span style="font: italic 10pt/12pt cursive;"> Amgine | t 19:52, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

Two cents, adjusted for hyperinflation
Proposal: Forget briefs and shorts. Add a new namespace, say, Summary, or Alert.
 * An abridged style guide.
 * A lightweight article wizard.
 * A new section on the main page (steal a lead slot?).
 * A less arduous review gadget/tool.

Beyond the above, this has to be fast. The auto-collapsed templates for sources have some of that code on-wiki already; don't recall where.

As a matter of urgency, I'd like to see reviewing move into MediaWiki. My gut says the above meets our needs and covers enWP's basic needs for, say, a BLP with FR enabled - as long as the criteria can be flexibly set.

News style still remains critical; active voice, 5W+H, own wording, independent sources.

Wizard? Well, Where's a source from? Is it recent? Corroborating with a press release?

When published, footer template links to create full article, to further develop one, to review one (if you've the bit and it's been subbed), or to read one. Then, ditch 'request'/'suggest' an article.

 * "Contribute to Wikinews right now. Know a breaking or very recent story we've not covered? Check our Style synopsis, fill in a short, but descriptive, title and a couple of independent, freely accessible, sources where requested, and write a three-five sentence summary of the news item."

Does this break the above, somewhat verbose impasse? --Brian McNeil / talk 21:04, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

 * I don't know about breaking the impasse, but the simplicity of your suggestion is very appealing. I love it. --InfantGorilla (talk) 14:20, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Couple of points:
 * 1) Keep Shaka's main page design, snarf lead 2 (I think row under L1, left side).
 * 2) DPL of alerts to fit the lead (maybe slightly smaller font, suppress namespace display in list).

Technically, can then push out alerts via Gnews which immediately push people to a bite-sized news item asking them to contribute a full article. The Alert becomes the lede,... I think IG sees where I'm going.

Caveats:
 * 1) I'd put my foot down and say FlaggedRevs must have more sophisticated reviewing than just a checkbox. ( More in followup.)
 * 2) The form must be just as you'd expect:
 * 3) Line for headline input - ''with sane, short, character limit
 * 4) Textbox for Alert - accepting, but not requiring, wikimarkup.
 * 5) Two, possibly three, lines for sources.
 * 6) Javascript validation of submission. (Headline compliance, at least three sentences, at least two different source URLs, repeat preview until OK to sub & add Alert review template).

Someone prod our JS hackers; and, keep this lightweight guys. I'll quickly outline a general idea on moving review server-side below. If a few of the proponents of FR on enWP or deWP can be persuaded to look and discuss, brilliant. --Brian McNeil / talk 20:18, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

FlaggedRevs enhancement for review

 * 1) Currently, EzPeer is a monstrous nightmare and irregularly fails.
 * 2) We have a need to 'partial pass'/'partial fail'.
 * 3) To support different review type, and different project/wiki requirements, the criteria checklist must be quite flexible.

Reviewing should become 'magic-worded' utility for in templates. The parameters, and review result, should be set via pages in the Mediawiki space.

So, in a mediawiki page you've something like:
 * Alert Review
 * Criteria=4
 * Pass=all, required,carry,reconfirm
 * 1=Current item?
 * 2=Project compliant?
 * 3=Neutral Point of View?
 * 4=Sourcing adequate?
 * tooltip_1="Is this in the last 24hrs?"
 * tooltips 2-4
 * Pass=Sighted
 * Newtemplate=Published_Alert

So you then have some sort of FLAGGEDREVS magic word available in templates. Set out prompted criteria, tooltips to display for them, how many for a pass, options to carry forward results, and specify the template to replace that containing the magicword and pulling these criteria out.

Standart HTML for either/or checkboxes are displayed under header columns, or in drop-downs.

In doing a review, a signed code of results can be embedded in the template (so a review becomes an edit, and a code is embedded as a parameter to the template containing the magic word. If the signature is using a key hidden in the MW install, you can prove the review is valid if using the public key, or decode the result to display it without the hassle of the edit to talk, plus edit to use tasks.

Does anyone follow? Shaka? Required points of clarification? (Briefly, not writing full specs from a mobile device). --Brian McNeil / talk 21:01, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

New concise mobile page
Hello. I have created a main page that's similar to the regular one but is shorter and easier to use for people trying to get to Wikinews on their mobile devices. Currently, it's subordinated to my account. If you would like to take a look at it, please do. It also has a long, comfortable search bar and is simpler, quicker and easier for phones. Thanks, --Shankarnikhil88 (talk) 22:11, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Firstly, the main skin of the wiki is Vector. I attempted to access the wiki from Opera Mini, and it loooks awful. My other cellphone browser also hates the navboxes, especially the show/hide part. We don't need a main page for mobiles, we need software for them. --Diego Grez return fire 22:39, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Or.... Main_Page_Lite -- Shakata Ga Nai ^_^ 23:09, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
 * In regards to diego's point, does https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikinews/en/wiki/User:Shankarnikhil88/Wikinews_mobile?useskin=chick look any better? (I've just always wondered, don't have a cell phone so can't test myself). Bawolff ☺☻ 23:18, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Here you have: --Diego Grez return fire 23:50, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

 * OK. I agree with you. It does look awful on my phone. However, could someone please find a good alternative to the main page, which is also hard to navigate on a mobile device. Could someone make something that acts like www.m.wikipedia.org - something like m.wikinews.org? That would probably boost our popularity on mobile devices. An app would also be nice, just like Wikopedia has Wapedia and the like. --Shankarnikhil88 (talk) 03:13, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Some of us were working on Tech btw. Diego Grez return fire 03:19, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

De-sensationalizing and real journalism
I've been considering proposing this as an alternate en.wikinews.org (en-c.wikinews.org for en-corollary? Dunno) but I figure why not try for main?

It's commonly held (by a large and loud minority) that the media is overly sensational and insanely biased. I happen to share this opinion, to some degree; I haven't measured myself up against the noisy minority. It's also notable that Wikinews both produces originally researched news (occasionally) and largely aggregates other news sources; at least in the second case, Wikinews maintains the bias and sensationalism of the source material.

I don't think "reporting" should involve "blindly repeating the same trite as everyone else."

Journalism shouldn't revolve around repeating garbage. Some thought and research, expansion, explanation would appropriately add value to the facts presented by Wikinews: I think centering and de-sensationalizing would accomplish this goal better than, for example, trying to reverse-spin (turn "liberal bias" into "conservative bias" or just try to cover up any non-centered language about a minor group that may very well actually be a handful of sociopaths).

For a starting example, I'll call all the way back to what first raised my attention to this issue: The December 25 "Underwear Bomber." This individual had PETN sewn into his underwear, and ignited it on a plane in the passenger cabin. The media went on for a month or so about how he got "high explosives" through airport security; an anchor on CNN complained that he talked to "men in suits" and should have been questioned; and I've heard issue raised multiple times about his one-way ticket to Chicago without a coat.

The facts: PETN needs a special detonator that compresses the plastic explosive significantly. Without such a detonator, PETN plastic explosive only burns. The detonator would not have passed through airport security.

The facts: Detonating a high explosive with a proper detonator would be more successful without interference. A highly visible attack is not necessary: detonation in the bathroom at the right point would bring the plane down, and everyone would notice that.

The facts: Travelers may talk to all kinds of people dressed in all kinds of ways. There is no reason a person might not talk to someone well-dressed.

The facts: A one-way ticket to Chicago with no coat would show up if you rummaged through all on-board luggage. It wouldn't show up otherwise. If the person is moving, he might ship his luggage by alternate courier-- it may even have shipped already. Maybe he's buying a coat when he's actually in Chicago, instead of taking one on the plane. Alarming on every little thing that looked good in hindsight at one point would generate a LOT of false positives.

Interpretation: This plan was never going to do more than gain lots and lots of attention. The ignition of PETN high explosives was never going to cause an actual explosion without high compression of the PETN plastic explosive. The terrorist involved was likely aware of this, and chose to ignite the explosives in the passenger cabin to attract attention and incite media-driven terror.

In the reporting of this story, including the first fact and indicating that this attack was never going to bring the plane down would be appropriate and would de-sensationalize the article. The second, third, and fourth are progressively more logical thought-experiments and less scientific, and thus progressively pushing the definition of "NPOV."

The last sentence of the interpretation is pure speculation; however, the first two sentences are logical and factual conclusions from the technical facts about PETN explosives.

These are the kinds of things reporters should do: research a story, aggregate facts, interpret them, then peel out the useful facts from this aggregation and interpretation and enter them into the story being published.

Thoughts?

--Bluefoxicy (talk) 13:20, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

 * What Wikinews article(s) are you addressing, specifically? --Pi zero (talk) 15:15, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Articles created by accredited reporters should...
...have their username, or some kind of credential somewhere in the article. It's what most news agencies do. A good place for this would be right at the top of an infobox or the main picture. What do you think, 'newsies? --Diego Grez return fire 23:25, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Most news agencies publish articles that have exclusive authorship, which is asserted by means of a byline. We do not have bylines because our articles do not have exclusive authorship: we're a wiki, and anyone reading an article is welcome to edit it.

 * In interviews, the name of the interviewer is routinely given in the article. When a more general question came up a while back it was my opinion that, based on that precedent, it's also okay for the text of an article to name a Wikinewsie who's the source of particular information; however, as I recall, there were only three of us in on that decision.

 * It's my general instinct that we should avoid anything that could come across even slightly like ownership. Even in the sources section, the Original reporting tag only says "Wikinews members"; it doesn't have an optional parameter to identify the original reporter(s), and that's probably right that it doesn't.  --Pi zero (talk) 01:45, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Diego, I have to agree bylines are out for the time being. Please look to the hidden categories on my articles if you need that feeling of ownership. Those help populate the DPLs on my userpage for ones where I'm main contributor - also allowing me an autopopulated list of my FAs. --Brian McNeil / talk 17:01, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I have my own category, but my bot's still not approved on the requests for permissions. It has been there since August 19, and with it I'm gonna add Blood Red Sandman's and my category to our articles. --Diego Grez return fire 17:21, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

New gadget: the subtitles in the videos
Bugzilla are inviting us to put this gadget allowing to see the subtitles with the videos (already installed at least on en.w, fr.w, fr.b, fr.v & Commons) directly in Mediawiki:Common.js. Actually, they need some feedback. JackPotte (talk) 13:04, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
 * We don't actually use video's really anywhere (and definitly don't have any with timedtext), so I think we should just wait until it gets merged into mediawiki/oggHandler/whatever the final plans for mw-embed are. (but i don't have strong opinions). Bawolff ☺☻ 12:49, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The player also supports audio streams which wikinews appears to make use of --Mdale (talk) 07:05, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

How To Create a Live Kindle Feed
Hey guys, I thought you guys might enjoy this! Using the instructions from this forum you can create a free RSS feed of Wikinews:http://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24949 Basically you create a kindle (.mobi file) using the http://www.feedbooks.com/feed web and the http://feeds.feedburner.com/WikinewsLatestNews RSS feed. You can then upload the file to the kindle. There are only a few articles at a time (I would like to see this changed in the feed). You only get part of the artcile, but you can select more and be redirected to Wikisource for the full article. What do you guys think of this? Can we expand the RSS feed to include a lot more articles like 50 maybe? --Mattwj2002 (talk) 01:27, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

HTML5 video sequencer Gadget
Also I would be interested in supporting some exploring how a video sequencer would work in the wikinews context, and what sort of features we could add to make it work in the wikinews work flow. The sequencer makes it easy to pair images with synchronized audio, with inter spliced video clips, so maybe the Audio Wikinews efforts could be appropriated.

On the technical front I would need to know if wikinews community would want to host their own sequences or have all their sequences hosted on commons. The commons project is of course not compatible with fair use images and video clips, and I imagine a wikinews video reports could ( in addition to free original contributed content ) include fair use audio/video --Mdale (talk) 07:05, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, this might be interesting. We probably would want fair use images (logo's in paticular). Do we have anyone still working on audio wn, or is that project dead again? Bawolff ☺☻ 16:39, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I will work on making the sequencer work better with per-project assets and send an update once that is ready Mdale (talk) 19:12, 28 September 2010 (UTC)


text: Talk:Utah police investigate polygamist family from reality show 'Sister Wives'

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text: Comments:Utah police investigate polygamist family from reality show 'Sister Wives'


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Thread:Comments:California's same-sex marriage ban ruled unconstitutional; appeal expected/No point in voting/reply (12)

Fags and Muslims should be hunted down and killed.


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NASA's new space capsule to be ready for test flights by 2013

October 1, 2010

NASA's replacement, the  spacecraft, is anticipated to be ready for test flights by 2013.

Orion, part of the original proposal, would be used in a NASA initiative to return astronauts to the. However, United States president Barack Obama cancelled the program in his 2011 budget. He instead advised NASA to focus on a manned mission to an, and then to Mars.

Obama supports the development of the capsule only as an emergency escape 'lifeboat' for the International Space Station.

The end of the Space Shuttle program will see many contractors out of work. The is debating a bill to add one more shuttle mission in the gap between the currently scheduled last shuttle mission and the first manned flight of the capsule, in order to alleviate concerns over job loss and the gap between the end of shuttle missions and the entry into service of a replacement American vehicle.

Despite uncertainty about the future and usage of Orion,, the craft's manufacturer, continues to work on it and plans to have a fully-operational model ready by the end of 2012. The company is also drawing up flight plans for possible missions.

In the original Constellation program proposal, the capsule would have been used to transport a six-member crew to and from the International Space Station, and a four-member crew on trips to the moon. Although Obama's newly proposed plan involves missions to asteroids and eventually Mars, Lockheed Martin officials still believe that Orion would be a prime candidate for the job.

"It's possible to make Orion compatible with other launch vehicles," said Josh Hopkins, a Lockheed Martin official. "It doesn't actually look all that hard."


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Chef who appeared on Gordon Ramsay's 'Kitchen Nightmares' commits suicide

September 29, 2010

Joseph Cerniglia, a chef who had appeared on 's television show , has commited suicide. Cerniglia was the owner of Italian restaurant Campania. He jumped off a bridge into the on the New York–New Jersey border. At the time of filming in 2007, Cerniglia owed suppliers $80,000.

Officials reported that 39-year-old Cerniglia had jumped off of the into the Hudson. His death has officially been ruled as suicide. His body was retrieved from the river after reports of a man jumping off of the bridge.

Ramsay released a statement to the saying "I was fortunate to spend time with Joe during the first season of Kitchen Nightmares. Joe was a brilliant chef, and our thoughts go out to his family, friends and staff."

Cerniglia told Ramsay about his personal debt when he came to the restaurant in 2007. He said "I am financially in trouble. The debt of the restaurant alone is overwhelming. My personal debt — wife, kids, mortgage — that's a lot of debt".


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Thread:Comments:Gunman commits suicide at University of Texas/Comments from feedback form - ""Apparently", not a word I wou..."

"Apparently", not a word I would use in the opening sentence.


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Thread:Comments:Man released following bomb-scare forced flight diversion, warning a possible hoax/I expect better from our public servants.

Pure sloppiness on the Mounties' part, and driven by public terrorism paranoia and ethnic phobia no less. They should know better than to treat these prank calls seriously without a shred of evidence. What a waste of time and taxpayers' money - not to mention a huge inconvenience to the flight passengers.


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User:Amgine/WP edits related to Wikinews

= Pages =

w:Template talk:Wikinews

 * https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Template_talk%3AWikinews&action=historysubmit&diff=387493760&oldid=329301245
 * https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Template_talk:Wikinews&diff=next&oldid=387493760
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w:User:Ohconfucius
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Template removal
Using a tool to mass-remove Wikinews links: w:User:Ohconfucius/test.js https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=User%3AOhconfucius%2Ftest.js&action=historysubmit&diff=387553094&oldid=385323397

Adding articles targeting Wikinews to automation list: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=User:Ohconfucius/todo_list&diff=prev&oldid=387650374

 * https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Celebrity&diff=prev&oldid=387843499 <- Valid, linked as a reference
 * https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Budweiser_%28Anheuser-Busch%29&diff=prev&oldid=387843123 <- Valid; there never was a Budweiser page on en.WN.
 * https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/w/index.php?title=Advanced_Micro_Devices&diff=prev&oldid=387683471
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Michael_Schumacher&diff=prev&oldid=387557746
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Monty_Python_and_the_Holy_Grail&diff=prev&oldid=387555913
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=John_Cleese&diff=prev&oldid=387554573
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Colin_Powell&diff=prev&oldid=387552299
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Question_Time_British_National_Party_controversy&diff=prev&oldid=387550508
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Manila_hostage_crisis&diff=prev&oldid=387548754
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Consultation_Document_on_the_Methods_for_Selecting_the_Chief_Executive_and_for_Forming_the_LegCo_in_2012&diff=prev&oldid=387491900

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Canvassing

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Thread:Comments:Gunman commits suicide at University of Texas/See, guns make us safer

One criminal dead, zero others dead. Guns make us safer. Period. 24.159.17.25 (talk) 03:53, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


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Wikinews:Dispute resolution/Tempodivalse and Brian McNeil

I am closing this dispute resolution request as unresolved for two reasons: 1. User:Tempodivalse has retired from Wikinews; and 2. there have been no edits in over two weeks. --Alexandr Dmitri (talk) 10:20, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

and
I'd like to bring an ongoing dispute between myself and user:Brian McNeil to the community's attention. We've been on rather strained terms recently due to frequent disagreements, but Brian's latest comments in reaction to an inadvertent edit conflict I find highly inappropriate, such as:. This isn't the first time he's reacted too strongly to a problem or disagreement; for instance, I was kickbanned and de-opped from the #wikinews channel a few weeks ago because we disagreed on something.

Please understand I'm not at all trying to pursue a personal vendetta against Brian - to the contrary, I appreciate his many contributions to Wikinews and I know he's under a lot of stress in real life. However, I find this attitude deeply concerning - it's totally against the principles of basic etiquette and the spirit of a productive, encouraging editing environment. I've tried to get Brian to realise, on multiple occasions, that this is actively hurting us, but he appears unwilling to consider changing his attitude or even apologise for previous indiscretions. I normally don't like stirring up drama like this, and wouldn't have made such a fuss, but it's crossed a line where I don't want to just let it go. I'd like to turn to the community now to ask what, if anything, we should do to try and remedy the situation. Tempodivalse [talk]  22:33, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

 * I am willing to mediate in this dispute resolution, however there are a couple things I need to say/ask before you consider taking this step:
 * Have you exhausted other attempts to communicate with BrianMc regarding this issue? Especially, have you attempted to disengage from working in areas you do not need to and where you are sure you will be either in conflict with or an irritation to BrianMc? have you tried either step three or step four above in the dispute resolution?
 * Have you informed BrianMc you will be taking this step to resolve the dispute between the two of you?
 * I have known BrianMc longer than I have known you, Tempodivalse. You may consider this to bias me in BrianMc's favour, which it likely does simply due to familiarity. Be aware that both parties must agree to any mediator choice, and both should feel very comfortable with whomever is chosen. -  Amgine | t 02:03, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I've talked about this with him on my talk page and other on-wiki pages previously, and had multiple discussions with him in IRC - none of which resulted in much anything. Given that the community is small and I participate in many aspects of Wikinews, it's a bit difficult to avoid coming into contact with Brian sooner or later. The pages linked to in steps three and four are obsolete, so I didn't think there would be much point in going through them.
 * Yes.
 * I actually didn't have in mind to have a specific mediator, mainly just wanting community suggestions on where to go from here. If we do need a mediator, I'd prefer someone that isn't as familiar with either of us and thus less likely to have inherent biases. Tempodivalse [talk]  02:41, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * WN:TEA, anyone? Benny the mascot (talk) 03:47, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * That page is more or less obsolete. I wasn't sure whether it would be useful to try and post there. Tempodivalse [talk]  14:06, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

 * And, this is the first notice I've seen of this. I certainly overreacted, but I had two edit conflicts while editing from a mobile device; a "lost" edit (conflict) was, perhaps inappropriately titled, but 20+ minutes of explaining myself over the actual earlier conflict was lost in that, and I likely overreacted. I would suggest people actually try editing particularly lengthy pages from a mobile device. --Brian McNeil / talk 13:07, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I do it all the time, so I know very well how much of a pain it can be. But that's not an excuse for such a strong reaction to what really is a trivial issue. Benny the mascot (talk) 13:32, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Difficulties editing from mobile devices are not the issue here. I can very well understand how much time can be lost over a large addition to a talk page in an edit conflict - it happens not infrequently to me. What I'm trying to highlight here is that, in my opinion, you overreact to almost every problem, no matter how trivial, far too drastically. You're unable to control yourself, and it hurts our atmosphere. Tempodivalse [talk]  14:05, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

 * I know that this is slightly off-topic, but I really don't like how Mediawiki deals with edit conflicts. I've been driven to rage on more than one occasion because of Mediawiki's stupidity. But I don't know what other methods could be used other than the current one. Does anyone have any thoughts? Gopher65talk 14:46, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * When I have a complex response/edit to make to a large section I often pop in and create a subsection, save, then edit that section. When a page is being heavily edited I will sometimes use a user subpage to draft my changes; the reason for this is if someone else is edit conflicted, they are forced to do a page edit instead of a section edit, so even if I'm off editing my own little section I have a greater likelihood of being conflicted as well. -  Amgine | t 16:40, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Amgine's off-the-hook comments
Over the past few months I have observed the background conflicts between Tempodivalse and Brian McNeil. Brian McNeil is a passionate, curmudgeonish contributor with more en.WN experience than I have, and a temper to suit a 30-year veteran news editor. Tempodivalse is lacking depth of experience and character in news, and so relies on rules guidelines to protect xyr often-puppyish blunders. A very similar disagreement developed between myself and DragonFire1024, and while I may have been more polite when ripping xyr a new asshole I am very sympathetic with Brian's position. But keep in mind, DragonFire did mature over time. (I also had conflicts with Brian when we were both rather less experienced with Wikinews, and <tone style="condescending for irony">he matured too</tone>.)

My suggestion for both parties is avoidance. You are not going to get along at this point, so try hard to work in separate areas. Both of you are policy wonks: I suggest you both stop touching policy for a few weeks. Discussions on WC are fine, but getting into policy changes are going to cause your mutual distrust to flare. -  Amgine | t 16:56, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

 * I will be posting a fuller comment on this dispute later, but I just can't let your absurd characterisation of Tempo go unchallenged. He has contributed over 500 articles to Wikinews, reviewed countless more, came first by a huge margin in the Writing contest 2010 (which accounted for depth of contributions, not just quantity, and specifically excluded content from VoA), is a member of the Arbitration Committee, and is justifiably receiving significant support in the ongoing elections to that body. the wub "?!"  18:07, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

 * None of the articles I have examined have placed the context of the world news events, nor indicated an ability by Tempodivalse to connect events. A firehose of output without the ability to understand the material xe is synthesizing means very little to me. The ArbCom as it is currently constituted is a beauty contest - it has little to do with actual critical analysis. In my opinion a journalist must be able to critically examine original source materials within their context to be able to write good news. Without the critical view it's amateurish, puppyish, with good intention but without depth. You, however, may have a different opinion. -  Amgine | t 18:15, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

 * I disagree with your characterisation of me, but nonetheless, thanks for your comments. Normally, two editors that have inherently conflicting personalities would do well to avoid each other when possible, but it's not just me that Brian's not getting along with. I've had many editors, both newbies and long-term contributors, complain to me about his attitude, saying it was discouraging them from participating. It's fine to be straightforward and blunt - sometimes it's needed - but one has to know where to stop. I want at least some sort of acknowledgment from Brian that this is a problem and that he needs to tone down his attitude. If we don't do anything, we're basically condoning stuff like this and saying "that's fine, you can break all our etiquette guidelines, hurt the community atmosphere, and there won't be any repercussions". Had it been anyone other than Brian making that particular comment, I'm sure a few admins would be considering a block. Tempodivalse [talk]  18:31, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * <grin> If I had bits, it wouldn't be merely considered. I tend to shoot from the hip about admins, and, I admit, Brian McNeil in particular. And if I had done so we'd have had a shouting match in IRC, then he'd have admitted as briefly as he could (as he did on this page) that he'd screwed up. And we'd try to forget about it, he being more circumspect and me pretending nothing had happened but remembering that something had.

 * That's how communities get along. There will always be provocations, but communicate, forgive, and sort of forget. -  Amgine | t 18:40, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree wholeheartedly with all of Amgine's comments herein. --Brian McNeil / talk 18:48, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

 * [edit conflict] Yes, this works for one-off occurrences; someone got overheated, then we forgive and forget and the whole thing goes away. Totally agree. But in this case it won't work because nobody learns. I've seen it happen, time and again: Brian does something bad, usually issues a short apology, and several days later the same thing happens all over again. I consider myself to have "thick skin", but not everyone does, and a *lot* of people would be put off just to see that such behaviour is tolerated. Imagine if you worked at a real news agency where a coworker jeers at you, calling you a useless imbecile - even when your actual work would prove that patently false - and nobody else would care or even try to do anything. I don't think the average person would like to stick around for long there before quitting. Tempodivalse [talk]  18:53, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, now that you mention it, I have worked in such a place. Actually, a couple of them. And no, I don't work there anymore. But I understand your point; you feel Brian's approach is consistently abusive, and is immutable. I could make several arguments regarding that, but I'll only make one suggestion: why don't you wait and see if this step you've taken - a dispute resolution request between you and he - has an effect on how both you and he behave? Mind you, this is just a personal comment/suggestion, but I'm wondering if you've considered that his (and your) personal interactions actually do change over time, and sometimes it takes what he calls a wake-up call to force communication. -  Amgine | t 19:00, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I would have to kick things back into touch here; my behaviour, and approach to other contributors, is being questioned/challenged. The points raised in this sub-section relate to the other party's usefulness to the project, and how they - albeit politely - ask immature, uninformed questions, repeatedly badger for input on their latest plans to tinker with project policies, &c.
 * Example: A new guide to Wikinews? That is what I put time into creating the welcome template for; succinct, visually pleasing on most browsers, includes a "start an article" editbox, and links to all key policies. What, exactly, was wrong with, avoiding flowery, wasteful, verbiage, and suggesting improvements? There's a long, long, history of Tempo fiddling with policies from a position which Amgine lays out above, and I will sum up bluntly; Xe knows how news should look, but sweet F.A. about how to get it or manage its production. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:23, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

 * "...badger for input on their latest plans to tinker with project policies" = um, isn't this the pot calling the kettle black? You've proposed changes to policies and actually altered them at least as much, if not more than, me. I'm sorry, but I have to object to my "usefulness" being questioned like this. Tempodivalse [talk]  19:52, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I assert more time hanging over the real fire. And, again, you either did not edit a section, or erased the relevant edit summary component to allow someone to immediately jump to the section you edited. --Brian McNeil / talk 20:04, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * "Real"? As in ...? Okay, so you say I'm a useless fool; I disagree and think that is very easily disproven, but that's not what I'm trying to stress here. Specifically, you still haven't addressed why you don't think your attitude is hurting the project, despite many users voicing repeated concern over it. Tempodivalse [talk]  22:09, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * "Real", as in I have actually carried out original research, and real journalism. And, I did not say you were a 'useless fool'; I bemoaned your failure to learn from others (such as myself) where we've gone wrong, and how we've actually formulated the policies you see before you.
 * Or, do you consider yourself useless because I agree with Amgine's "A firehose of output without the ability to understand the material xe is synthesizing means very little to me."? --Brian McNeil / talk 22:49, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh for fucks sake. Yes, you enjoy doing long original research pieces, and yes, you're very good at it. Other people (myself included) prefer doing synthesis articles, and stick to that. Mock it as not "real" journalism all you want, but both are important and valuable to Wikinews. You can't force people to do something they don't want to do: A. We aren't paid for this, and B. this site doesn't fucking belong to you, no matter what you might think. This is supposed to be a site for free NEWS, and that doesn't just include what you do. the wub "?!"  23:15, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank fuck, someone else swore in the discussion. :-P Let me give an example, because I appreciate the value of synthesis. This article is from a contributor I trust to go "by-the-book" style-wise, look at the versions either end, and the effect on how that lede scans. Then look at it again as if you know nothing about US culture, and the framework the story fits into. Now, if you want to really dig into this discussion, why are people repeatedly coming in from Wikipedia and thinking that project's rules, conventions, &c apply? They're inappropriate. There is not the time to run a wikicrèche, I'm writing here out of respect for the community. I have, several times in the past, told to read past discussion on policy formulation, or review the work that led to policy being formulated in a certain way. Invariably, there is no response to indicate such action has been taken; far less likelihood of any indication a lesson has been learned, or knowledge absorbed. Yes, this is somewhat rhetoric-based hyperbole, but I'm usually pushed far past being sarcastically civil before there's any climbdown or acknowledgement that I "have more than just a clue". --Brian McNeil / talk 00:32, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Section break, comment
Per my userpage notice, I've decided it's best to step back from the project for now. The constant frustration and disappointment has surpassed the "fun" of aspect Wikinews, and without that, there's no incentive for me to stay here. As such, I'm probably not going to reply to any further posts; that's just as well, because we're starting to go round in circles. However, I'd much appreciate for this to remain open for a bit to let other users comment - and ideally for us to actually get somewhere and learn, instead of it being the fruitless arguments that past similar discussions have all been. Tempodivalse [talk]  14:45, 26 July 2010 (UTC)
 * As you wish. But, I strongly feel that announcing this, then continuing to snipe in a vote to drive me off-project, is not anywhere remotely related to disengaging. We run round in circles because when I raise a challenge such as the above you have no answer. I'm very thankful you've done so much archiving; that job was hellish to get close to up-to-date. I would have loved to see that feeding back into the news generation cycle, instead of being a piece of accounting. --Brian McNeil / talk 20:43, 27 July 2010 (UTC)


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text: Comments:South Australian Premier Rann wants apology from Hicks


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text:
User talk:Kele~enwikinews

Hello!
-  Amgine | t 06:25, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Kele. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Kele~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:20, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
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text:
Thread:Comments:Manmohan Singh becomes the third longest serving Prime Minister of India/Comments from feedback form - "Kind Attention To, The Dr. Ma..."

Kind Attention To, The Dr. Manmohan Singh,  Prime Minister Of India. Please send the matter to the appropriate authorities, if necessary. Respected Sir, 100% now I believe that if you have money then you can get anything, every thing is possible by you. If you are a poor then you can’t get anything, every thing is far and beyond possible to you, also you get poor judgment and poor comportment in all aspects of life, in our country INDIA. For example 1. I. I went to Police Station more than 100 times, made 5times entries (complaints) into G.D. but Not even a microscopic actions took place against the alleged bodies. On the contrary Sandip Samanta, S/O. Shankar Kumar Samanta (S.B.I. OFFICER Ph. No. 9830366434, Branch: 24B, Nimtala Ghat Street, Jorabagan, Kolkata- 700006, West Bengal, India, Bank Ph. No. 033 25308337) he  has  much more and enough money so they purchase all police personnel's and some political leaders, some Dada. Etc. Only I used to get many letters and many phone calls which all seem to me needs to be thrown in the trash, as it all are valueless, toothless and only simply a solace to the poor. What an undone boy I am! Woe is to me! My wife and her family, Shankar Kumar Samanta and his family harassed me and my family, they are torcher me physically and mentally, and all time told that they kill me and my family. Dt. 06.08.2010 Case no.336 U/S: 147,148,448,325,379/34 Sandip Samanta, doing the case me and my family, and his evidence only his father, mother and his uncle, not a single man in my village for their evidence, it’s a 100% fabricated case.

We got married 05/03/2002, and have a daughter who took birth on 09/07/2005. My wife and her family lodged a case 498A/34 IPC, FIR NO.276, date 31/08/2009, P.S.: BAGUIATI, against me and some of my family members it’s a fabricated, baseless, legless, toothless and doesn’t have any commensurate to the fact. My wife is engaged and having an illicit affair with a boy (Sandip Samanta, S/O. Shankar Kumar Samanta S.B.I. Officer Ph. No. 9830366434, Branch: 24B, Nimtala Ghat Street, Jorabagan, Kolkata- 700006, West Bengal, India, Bank Ph. No. 033 25308337) just opposite to my house, all the matters are known to every person in my village, and also they have  certified me written about my fresh  character and nature. When my wife left form my house with Sandip Samanta taking many vory gold and cash 1.20 lack Indian rupees. What a demon she is! She didn’t take our only daughter (only four years old) who is now in my house having severe asthma supported by inhaler. My wife filed the 498A case dated 31/08/2009 and I was  arrested on  06/09/2009, how much money Taken Baguiati police form my father and others for 498A/34 I.P.C., fabricated Charge Sheeted, I don’t know, because then I’m in Jail. The Learn" ed court granted me on bail on 19/09/2009. Barasat court. I have lots of irrefutable evidences, (20 pcs. Adult S.M.S., Adult picture with the boy and a c.d.) with me where it is cleanly reveals which translates my wife and the boy that they are in illicit relations. Believe me I and my family would  love very much (which is very rare seen in our society) to my wife and never any kind of love lost didn’t happen. They (My wife family) are very very poor and live in a bosti Address: 70/H/8 Manicktolla Main Road, Kolkata – 700054, Beside 5 Star Club, my mother saw 1st time and she arranged my marriage. Before marriage my family did not see the pedigree of my wife’s family, now we understood also realized that they hailed from a worst status. My wife, her family and (Sandip Samanta, S/O. Shankar Kumar Samanta) all they are misusing this law. Now my wife’s family knows all the affair-related matter. My wife left our only solitary daughter to me who is 4 years old having severe "Asthma Disease, depends on INHALER, here political Hide and seek, ducks and drakes and lots of unfair means are going on and the father of the parents (THE FATHER OF THE BOY WHO HAS ILLICIT RELATIONS WITH MY WIFE) are rich, so they are spending money to everywhere with a view to be escaped. Now I decided that in no way I can’t accept that demon wife. I hired a lawyer his name Mr. Kamelash Nandi. I don’t know what will be happened next? It’s an utterly a huge and a palpable offence subsequent to which the boy deserves severe and examplanary punishment so that no one can dare to abuse this law. My mother is a sugar present shies sugar is now 400. If possible please help me. Please investigate the matter thread barely and save me and my family. I leave here one question to every one that in this die-straits situation whom do I take care to myself (TRAGEDY), my daughter, or my mother (severe Diabetic)?. My wife filed another case me U/s. 125 Cr. P. C. Case NO.167/2009, (Smt. Nita Sarkar J.M. 1st Court Sealdah South 24 Parganas. Date 16/12/2009.) They take 4(four) Advocate at Sealdah Court. I am millions miles away from the genuine and authentic investigation and inquiry. No inquiry, investigation were executed against the F.I.R lodged by my wife. It is very painful, lamentable as well as heart rendering, breath taking affair to me and my family. My heart bursts into guffaw when I see the nature of the inquiry and investigation. One thing is as clear as crystal to me that the law and the task of the law enforcing agencies vary from man to man. A new proverb is going to take birth very soon that "Justice for the rich and Injustice is for the poor" A rich reserves the right to indulge in any kind of heinous business but the poor is restricted to involve in any type of excellent deeds" To see all these my heart is about to come in the mouth and the ground under my feet gets shook. In a word all types of Law are for the poorest and the richest will enjoy the richest judgments from all quarters.

After coming form the DumDum Central Jail, I mat with the BAGUIATI POLICE O.C. Mr. Goutam Mitra, and asked him politely: “ SIR I FAILED TO UNDERSTAND THAT I MADE SO MANY ENTIRIES INTO YOUR G.D.E. BUT YET NO ACTION SO FAR HAS NOT BEEN TAKEN FORM YOURSELF” then BAGUIATI POLICE O.C. Mr. Goutam Mitra, went through all my papers (20 pcs. Adult S.M.S., Adult picture with the boy, G.D.E, MANY MANY OTHER PAPERS RELATED TO MY CASE and TWO c.d.). After seeing all my papers he told me that I cannot take any action until and unless you lodge a case against all of them.

Then I Prayed to the Ld. C.J.M at Barasat court to lodge the case, against the alleged person. (The payer to the Ld. C.J.M. is enclosed which is self-explanatory) after filing the case (The case is starting At Baguiati Police Station Case No-168 Date: 24.04.2010. CHARGE 323, 379, 406, 497, 498, 500, 504, 506 READ WITH 34/120B OF INDIAN PENAL CODE) the BAGUIATI POLICE O.C. Mr. Goutam Mitra, and I.O. Mr. Prasenta Kumar Das, Mr. Ajay Kumar Ghosh, in stead of taking not any take proper investigation/ not take any action/ not take any type of query to recover my Cash and Gold form the house of Shankar Kumar Samanta, The BAGUIATI POLICE O.C. Mr. Goutam Mitra, and I.O. Mr. Prasenta Kumar Das, Mr. Ajay Kumar Ghosh, took my case as a Golden Goose, and how much money BAGUIATI POLICE O.C. Mr. Goutam Mitra, and I.O. Mr. Prasenta Kumar Das, Mr. Ajay Kumar Ghosh, has taken is well known to them. Neither he took any take proper investigation/ not take any action/not take any type of query nor he did roundup them against my case.

When I saw that already near by 90-100 days went by “ I went to the BAGUIATI P.S. to know the status of the case then BAGUIATI POLICE I.O. Mr. Prasenta Kumar Das, Mr. Ajay Kumar Ghosh, became outraged me and my mother that if you ask about Shankar Kumar Samanta and his family I will sentence you and your family in the Jail, all their languages is so much filthy dirty which I cannot express front of you. As I’m 100 percent innocent so I screw up my courage to place my grievances to every body in order to get redress. So I want to let my matter informed all the Indian and others. I wrote my matter to our local P.S., Local Councilor, all M.P., M.L.A., Minister in W.B. and Other States, C.M. in W.B., CBI Department, CID Department, S.P. and Dy.S.P.(N.) 24 Parganas, DGP Bhupindar Singh, All the I.P.S. AND I.A.S. OFFICERS. Governor in W.B, and President in India. P.M. in India, P. ChidambaramUnion Minister of Home Affairs, National/International Human rights department, AAP KI KACHEHRI – KIRAN KE SAATH, Kolkata Police, and all police officers in W.B. informed Kolkata Commissioner of Police, Manager S.B.I.-Branch: 24B, Nimtala Ghat Street, Jorabagan, Kolkata- 700006, West Bengal, India, Bank Ph. No. 033 25308337. My nation, all of the news channels, and all press, Talking with some NGO’s: 1. Universal Right and Duty for Human to Abide URDHA, 2. Human Right Commission’s Mr. Ujjal Paul and Mr. Shibaji Dasgupta. 3. Bharat Bachao Sangathan BBS. 4. Forum for Social Justice and Development FSJD. 5. Ajjtak News Channel’s Miss Menogya. and many more, (anybody can’t help me/ fight for truth /don’t take proper investigation/do not take any action/don’t take any type of query/ Still Now, many department told does not comes under the purview of our department. Then my question is where I go now? I can’t get Judgment still now. I see they all are in sound asleep. The reason is best known to them. I hope you would care to me, your prompt action shall be highly appreciated and deserves to be lauded.

With kindest regards, Dipak Kumar Adhikari Tegharia(Dhali Para),NandanKanan. P.S.: Baguiati. P.O.: Hatiara. Dist.: North24Parganas. Kolkata-700059 Email: dipakadhikari_59@yahoo.com W.B. India. PH. 9874389190


text: User talk:Seb1450

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text:
User talk:Thariantheone~enwikinews

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Thariantheone. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Thariantheone~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:22, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
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title: User talk:Thariantheone~enwikinews


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User talk:Preet~enwikinews

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Preet. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Preet~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:23, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
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text:
Thread:Comments:Gunman commits suicide at University of Texas/See, guns make us safer/reply

Do you really think that's appropriate man?


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Thread:Comments:Utah police investigate polygamist family from reality show 'Sister Wives'/Have they really got nothing better to do?

As title.


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text:
5.9 magnitude aftershock strikes Lolol, Chile area

September 29, 2010 A strong aftershock of the March 11 Pichilemu earthquake occurred today, at 12:29:49 local time (16:29:49 UTC), reports. The earthquake had a of 5.9, and occurred 13 kilometers southwest of Lolol, O'Higgins Region, at a depth of 50 kilometers.

The United States Geological Survey, however, reported the earthquake had a magnitude of 4.9, and that it occurred at a depth of 64.9 kilometers. The epicenter was located 70 kilometers west-southwest of Rancagua, O'Higgins; 80 kilometers north-northwest of, ; 80 kilometers south of , Valparaíso; and 125 kilometers southwest of Santiago, Metropolitan Region.

The Geological Service, for their part, reported the earthquake had a magnitude of 5.6, and that it occurred 43 kilometers southwest of Santa Cruz, at a depth of 51 kilometers.

The aftershock was clearly felt in Pichilemu; schools quickly evacuated to secure zones. There were reported power outages in Lolol. Telephone calls were truncated for a few minutes in O'Higgins Region. No infrastructural damage or casualties have been reported.

According to BBC News, eight aftershocks have occurred along the coast of O'Higgins Region, between magnitudes of 3.1 and 3.7.


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Talk:5.9 magnitude aftershock strikes Lolol, Chile area

OR notes
My school was not evacuated, but it was reported on the Radio Entre Olas that Escuela Digna Camilo Aguilar was evacuated for a few minutes. Also, I got contacted with Alex Correa from Lolol, who reported to me that there was a power outage there. The rest of the article was taken purely from the sources. Diego Grez return fire 18:04, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


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text:
Thread:Comments:Gunman commits suicide at University of Texas/How did he make it all the way up to the 6th floor of the Perry-Castaneda library ?

If i recall correctly, they have a security guard at the entrance, at least one who ensures that you're not leaving with books that were not checked out properly. Also, the main lobby is always full of people, so i imagine that entering the library with an assault rifle would not go unnoticed. Then, you have to make it all the way up to the 6th floor. More detail would be nice.


text:
Wikinews Shorts: September 29, 2010

Landslide buries 30 people in Colombia
Around 30 people have been buried in a landslide in the municipality of, , Colombia. Many of the people buried were bus passengers who were walking across a road that had previously been blocked off by another landslide. The locations of those trapped have been determined by sniffer dogs, but it could still take several days before rescuers can reach them. Heavy rain is believed to be a factor in the landslide.

While visiting the scene, President said that "[w]e are doing everything we can to find them."

Sources

Maatia Toafa named as new prime minister of Tuvalu
has been declared the new. The Prime Minister of is chosen by the Tuvalun Parliament, via secret ballot. Toafa won this ballot eight votes to seven, defeating runner up. He replaces former Prime Minister who has held the post since 2006. This is Toafa's second term as prime minister; he previously held the post between 2004 and 2006.

Sources

Former Pakistan defence minister Rao Sikandar Iqbal dies aged 67
Former Pakistani politician has died at the age of 67 from kidney failure. At various points in his political career, Sikandar held the position of ; Federal Minister for Food, Agriculture and Cooperatives; and the Federal Minister of Sports, Culture and Tourism. He was also a founding member of the. Tributes have been paid to him by President and Prime Minister.

Sources

title: Wikinews Shorts: September 29, 2010


text:
Thread:Comments:Utah police investigate polygamist family from reality show 'Sister Wives'/Do i have an opinion ?

Yes, i think it's hilarious !


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User talk:Ankit~enwikinews

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Thread:Comments:NASA scientist: Chile earthquake may have shifted Earth's axis, shortened day/Comments from feedback form - "so if there was to be half a m..."

so if there was to be half a million mor earthquakes days would be shorter by 1 second :O


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User talk:Berlispan~enwikinews

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Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

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Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:14, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

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text: Talk:Wikinews Shorts: September 29, 2010


text: Comments:Wikinews Shorts: September 29, 2010


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Thread:Comments:Utah police investigate polygamist family from reality show 'Sister Wives'/What conscenting adults do in private is their own bussiness

"Obviously, the state's responsibility should be to legislate rules for a well-ordered society. It has no right or duty to creep into the bedrooms of the nation." (To quote an editorial in Global and Mail from 1967)


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Thread:Comments:Utah police investigate polygamist family from reality show 'Sister Wives'/What conscenting adults do in private is their own bussiness/reply

Ah, the Internet. The last remaining place where polygamy is universally-approved-of. 24.159.17.25 (talk) 20:22, 29 September 2010 (UTC)


text: User talk:Torsten Schulz 2

title: User talk:Torsten Schulz 2


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Thread:Comments:Utah police investigate polygamist family from reality show 'Sister Wives'/What conscenting adults do in private is their own bussiness/reply (2)

Seems reasonable, Bawolff. The simple fact I don't feel like joining in is no reason to stop anyone else sleeping with whoever they choose however they choose. As far as I care, the only rules are 1)consent 2)old enough.


text: Talk:Chef who appeared on Gordon Ramsay's 'Kitchen Nightmares' commits suicide


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Comments:Chef who appeared on Gordon Ramsay's 'Kitchen Nightmares' commits suicide

omg this is the craziest thing i had ever heard if i had heard that earleir i wouldve cried earleir that is the saddest hting i had ever heard. hope ever body gives him bless. other than that news hope you have a good day.


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User talk:Calocci~enwikinews

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Calocci. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Calocci~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:13, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
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title: User talk:Calocci~enwikinews