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Wikinews:Water cooler/policy/archives/2010/December

Template:Main headlines
The main headlines template was just modified to show archived articles. I reverted that, because I see it as a betrayal of both our status as a wiki (it displays on the main page stories that cannot be edited by anyone) and our reputation as a news site (it presents stale stories as if they were current).

If we wanted to disguise our low output —we're a news site, we shouldn't want to disguise facts— by filling out the main page with stale news passed off as current (can you tell I don't like this idea? :-), the way to do it would be to increase the archive time from one week to two. That's easy enough to do, although (surprise) I'm not in favor of doing it.

Anyway, that's my take on it. Anyone else care to chime in? --Pi zero (talk) 18:45, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I have been thinking that does it matter if you can't edit on it? Probably would keep us clear of vandalism if some look at the older archived articles, wouldn't it? I also think that it is too short (which can be helped by creating new articles and publish them, but the wiki has slowed down). However, it would display old news, which isn't good. I'd leave it alone at your revision, and maybe the progress of the site will improve in time.  Nascar 1996   18:53, 14 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I did it, but I'm not particularly bothered by the idea. I just thought the whitepsace looked nasty, and that it would be a relatively minor change that didn't require a great deal of discussion. The best way to reduce whitespace, of course, would be to increase our output, but I decided removing two lines from a DPL was easier. As I said, I don't mind leaving it how it is, I just think it looks better with a longer list. Δεν δοδγε  Tinsel\Christmas! 19:23, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Virginia man arrested for plotting to bomb Washington DC metro
Is this an article about an event that happened eight days ago? And if not, how did it get published while claiming to be about an event that happened eight days ago?

How did this get past two different reviewers without these questions being asked? --Pi zero (talk) 00:16, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Anything can pass, with newer sources, correct? The source was created today.  Nascar 1996   00:45, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

 * It would be stale if it didn't have newer sources to bring it back to life.  Nascar 1996   00:47, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

 * To be precise, the event must be within seven days, and new details must have come to light within two to three days. The actual date of the sources doesn't matter in itself unless those sources are themselves revealing something new about the event.

 * In this case, if the arrest is the news event, the article is stale no matter how recently new information about it has come to light. If the whole thing just came to light, that would indeed (as Bobby122 has pointed out on the article talk) rescue the article, provided the news event itself is something that happened within the past seven days.

 * I can't figure out, from the sources, why it is that the story is breaking in the press now. Depending on the nature of the coming-to-light, that coming-to-light might itself qualify as a news event.  The article isn't written that way, though; it's written around the arrest as news event, which is why I looked at it and perceived an article about an eight-day-old event.  --Pi zero (talk) 01:40, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * He was caught on Dec 7, but he was arrested today. (arrest = news event, not stale) correct?  Nascar 1996   02:12, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Alas, no. He was arrested on Dec 6 according to the CNN source, Dec 7 according to the FOX source (which attributes that date to the Washington Examiner).  --Pi zero (talk) 02:26, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Then why were those sources created today?  Nascar 1996   02:27, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Apparently, they only just found out about it; the CNN article says as much in its first paragraph, though without clearly explaining why that was. --Pi zero (talk) 02:57, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

So would it be stale, and need deleted?  Nascar 1996   03:13, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * The article should be fixable — and even if not, deletion somehow seems disproportionate. A correction notice seems a bit odd.  It would be nice if we can just fix it (within 24 hours of publication) and not have to worry about what to do otherwise.  Since we're post-publication, perhaps we should go for the smallest change satisfying propriety.  It might even suffice to add a statement in the lede of what happened Tuesday — but we don't know what happened on Tuesday, and without knowing we can't usefully rephrase what CNN said to respect CNN's copyright.

 * An easy Google search turns up this, suggesting the court documents were placed under seal. Supposing that's reliable, it still wouldn't confirm the seal was lifted Tuesday, but it's a start.  --Pi zero (talk) 04:36, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

 * Why don't you just change the event? The current event is man arrested. Change it to 'FBI announces arrest', or whatever would be factually accurate. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 12:10, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

 * For either change, we have to have a source for what happened on Tuesday, and so far, we don't. We still only have speculation as to why the story of the arrest is only coming out now.  We need a source.  --Pi zero (talk) 12:50, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

 * Timeline:
 * The documents were unsealed on the 9th, according to JIDF's site, here.
 * The only thing that happened on Tuesday was that, according to this, the story was broken by the Washington Examiner (that would be this).
 * I don't find it remotely plausible to refocus on the breaking of a five-day-old story by another news organization. I'm also not enthused about refocusing on an unsealing of documents that took place five days before anyone noticed it had happened.

 * If the arrest actually took place on the 7th, as some sources say, then it's within seven days of publication. The reason some sources say the 6th seems to be that that's the date on the arrest warrant; I'd like to get that straight and be sure the date is right within the 24-hour horizon after publication, regardless of whether we really think the 7-versus-8 days is worth raising hell over at this late stage of things.

 * If the new-details-coming-to-light is the breaking of the story by the Washington Examiner, then that's within two to three days (in fact, it's within less than one day). I have no problem with that, though I'm wondering whether-and-how to explicitly mention it in the article.  --Pi zero (talk) 14:16, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe "It is/has being/been reported that..." Or "Reports say..." Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 14:33, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I've submitted a change to the article, about what happened Tuesday. --Pi zero (talk) 15:41, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Alexander Lukashenko re-elected for the 4th time as President of Belarus
I'm guessing the primary author simply didn't understand what they should be doing (which goes to how our Howdy template does not serve the needed function of instantly getting through to newbies). What they actually created was an article with three sources, one of which was VOA but unused, and the other two of which were just the same article being carried by two outlets — and the body of this Wikinews article was a copy-and-paste of the first three paragraphs of the non-VOA article. Well, except that a word "its" had been incorrectly changed to "it's".

A bunch of Wikinewsies worked on neatifying the article, but since they weren't reviewing it, I'm neither surprised nor bothered that they didn't look at the sources and notice these, er, problems. I'm feeling less charitable toward BarkingFish, who [ published] it and then two other articles in the space of three minutes; but I'm interested to hear what xe has to say for xyrself. --Pi zero (talk) 05:42, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I did notice the published revision needing hidden; that is very, very bad. How, exactly, does use of the same syndicated report as two 'supposed' sources get past any reviewer? I, too, will wait on that being explained. Howdy, I'll cover below. --Brian McNeil / talk 06:21, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Firstly, Pi Zero, I'm not surprised you're pissed off with me passing that one. I enclose below a log of the conversation which took place prior to it: It should be noted that due to Cspurrier's toolserver account expiring, we presently have no feed in #wikinews with regards to articles needing review, so reminding in the channel is the only way we know what's out, other than checking manually.

BarkingFish I know I'm pissing people off, if I start working through the review queue, will someone PLEASE review the Brian Hanrahan story before midnight, so it goes out same day?

Badmin +1 D

'''Dendodge   I'll do it, I suppose. :('''

Dendodge   But only if you review all the other stories

BarkingFish  i've done 3, the fourth i know fuck all about.

It should be noted that I don't know whether Dendodge was joking or not, but shortly after I posted that i'd reviewed the outstanding 3 that I could, Dendodge did indeed complete the review as noted.

I'm not in the clear, I know I'm not, and I will be making an application at RFP shortly after posting this, requesting that my reviewer bit be removed effective immediately. No vote, nothing like that. What you do with this now is entirely your decision. Personally I wouldn't blame you if you blocked me, I fucked up, I accept that. BarkingFish (talk) 17:31, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

 * Per the above, please see Requests_for_permissions/Removal/BarkingFish_%28reviewer%29 BarkingFish (talk) 17:41, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

 * I'd strongly oppose a block. You know what you did was a mess, and while it was a serious error you've handed in the bit. This shows, to me, that you're taking responsibility and will remain a net positive to the project now you won't be reviewing. Anyone wondering what the Badmin line is about - it's me, agreeing to a bit of silliness not logged here, just before reviews were discussed. It's irrelevant.

 * Fish, you've held up your hands and taken the hit. I believe you mean it. I support letting you stay around, I very much support second chances. As many know, I'm on my second chance. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 18:14, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

 * With no malice involved, this isn't a blocking offense. Blocking is not punitive but preventative, and I see nothing plausible for blocking to prevent.  --Pi zero (talk) 18:39, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd go further than Pi; you're embarassed, possibly a little shamed by this. A little 'due diligence' in tagging articles as-if reviewed, and I'd support a speedy re-grant. I've mused over the review process I personally apply, I could've come close to the same. I think, and suspect many will agree, that you develop a 'gut feel' for sniffing out copyvio. There's telltales, too-good-to-be-true on a first contribution, correcting from use of another publication's MoS,... Sometimes, just sometimes, you *know* a phrase pulled out the middle of an article and stuffed into GNews is going to trigger alarms. The IRC discussion would've been better construed as 'attack the Brian Hanrahan article'. But, we all know what online, text-only, communications can be like.
 * Incidentally, I'll bet Bawolff has a toolserver account. Shaka? Definitely. --Brian McNeil / talk 22:15, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Howdy not helping
I feel a little pained at the above dig at the Howdy template. If it is to be improved, then it is constructive criticism we require. Does it lack needed information? Does it need to 'intimidate' people into reading any specific texts/policies? Should it assume everyone lacks clue? --Brian McNeil / talk 06:21, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I take zero responsibility for the bolded "tour" link, nor what is provided therein; I got halfway through the first page of that waffle, and would consider it an effective non-prescription cure for insomnia. The format is nice, the content fatuous, vacuous, insipid, non-newsie waffle. --Brian McNeil / talk 06:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

 * Of the half-dozen or so welcome messages I've gotten on different WMF projects, Howdy is (except for the "tour" :-) my favorite. Friendly, engaging, informative.  Perfect for the user who takes the time to read it.  Recalling a fragment of a recent comment by Gopher65 (from this thread):
 * The problem ... is that some users are done their first (very crappy) article before that 2 hour period is up.
 * I don't think Howdy as it exists will help with those users. They already know what they want to do, they want to get on with it, and that welcoming cup of joe implies a time-consuming read that they might get to later.  For now, I doubt they'll read past "more involved."

 * What could possibly so command their attention at first glance, while they're busy doing what they'd already determined to do, that they would keep reading for more than a sentence? I've been hoping to try my hand at this, in my copious free time.  A blunt short list of succinct, numbered steps, with a label at the top something like How to write an article, might just do it.  I pretty much have a tentative list of steps in mind.  What I'm still puzzling over is how to do this with no loss of pre-existing functionality. --Pi zero (talk) 08:42, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I like the Howdy template the way it is, except for what Pi zero mentioned in his last few sentences: most people won't keep reading past the first line.

 * As it stands right now the Howdy template is informative, and is a great resource for those who want to learn everything about Wikinews. I think that most of the current content (and format) of the template should remain the same, in part due to the fact that the policy pages referenced in the template can be somewhat difficult to find, especially for those who aren't familiar with wikis in general.

 * All that I think we need to do is replace the current first tab. Pi zero's idea of a short, bulleted list of the absolute minimum article requirements is great. In my experience people are more likely to read and respond to short bullet points than they are a paragraph of text. This list could be prefaced by a short sentence stating something like this: "This list is a bit of what you need to get started. To learn more about how to have your contributions published on Wikinews, click on the tabs above."

 * Here's how I see the bulleted list looking:
 * Don't copyvio.
 * Use at least 2 sources for your article.
 * News needs to be fresh. The event that you're writing about shouldn't have taken place more than 2 days ago.
 * When completed, place the Review template at the top of your article. It will be reviewed by an impartial fellow editor.
 * If your article fails review, you will be given a reason and a list of things to fix. Then resubmit for review.
 * Click here for premade article template.

 * And that's about it. A key point to remember here is that people don't necessarily have short attention spans, but they do have short focus spans. The more we employ the principle of "economy of words", the more likely people are to pick up the key points we have to say. Less is more, in this situation. Gopher65talk 16:23, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

 * I'd consider a fifth: "If you want help, ask!" Ask should be linked somewhere appropriate; I'd also like the peer review template to state, in the case of a failed review, that if the author wants more help they can use the article talk page. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 16:29, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Howdy - how-to approach

 * My thought was, even a list of admonishments would be "yeah, yeah, you have a bunch of rules" which would then be ignored in the same spirit that people click the "accept terms" button when installing software. But step-by-step instructions to do this, then do this, etc. might just get through to them if the instructions are ruthlessly simple and are for doing just what's wanted.

 * Here's my first real crack at it. Of course it was lots easier for me to say I had a list in mind than to actually write one.

 * How to write an article (quick steps for your first)
 * Choose a current news event — something definite that happened within the last day or two.
 * Find two or more independent sources — that is, independent of each other.
 * Read them before you start writing, so you can write using your own words and structure.
 * Choose an article name that tells the most important and unique thing about the event.
 * Write a first paragraph that briefly answers most or all of who, what, where, when, why, and how about the event. The first sentence should very compactly answer at least several of those.
 * Add more paragraphs, getting into gradually more depth about the story. At least three paragraphs in all.

 * Not a recipe for a Pulitzer, but I'll happily sacrifice detail to increase market penetration. --Pi zero (talk) 17:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Huh. I was glancing at my other monitor while reading this list, so I wasn't concentrating on the list. My attention started to wander after the 3rd item. I wonder how representative that is of our average user? Anyway, it looks good so far. Gopher65talk 19:08, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

How about a few links?
 * How to write an article (quick steps for your first)
 * Choose a current news event — something definite that happened within the last day or two.
 * Find two or more independent sources — that is, independent of each other.
 * Read them before you start writing, so you can write using your own words and structure.
 * Choose an article name that tells the most important and unique thing about the event.
 * Write a first paragraph that briefly answers most or all of who, what, where, when, why, and how about the event. The first sentence should very compactly answer at least several of those.
 * Add more paragraphs, getting into gradually more depth about the story. At least three paragraphs in all.
 * If you need help, ask!

That way, anybody who wants more information on any of those points can get it easily, and we're subtly directing users to our key policies at the same time. I also added a link to the water cooler/assistance at the end. Δεν δοδγε  Tinsel\Christmas! 20:27, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

[DD, sorry I borked your sig, hit edit char limit for phone-in-pub]

 * Perhaps more specific links, so that if you want clarification on one of these points and therefore click on a link, you aren't immediately plunged back into time-consuming-read mode.
 * How to write an article (quick steps for your first)
 * Choose a current news event — something definite that happened within the last day or two.
 * Find two or more independent sources — that is, independent of each other.
 * Read them before you start writing, so you can write using your own words and structure.
 * Choose an article name that tells the most important and unique thing about the event.
 * Write a first paragraph that briefly answers most or all of who, what, where, when, why, and how about the event. The first sentence should very compactly answer at least several of those.
 * Add more paragraphs, getting into gradually more depth about the story. At least three paragraphs in all.  When your article is completed, put  Review  at the top of it.
 * If you need help, ask!
 * I tried to work in Review, part of Gopher's suggestion above that wasn't extant, without increasing the number of steps, because the list seems already pushing the upper end of useful length.
 * I'd meant "your own words and structure" as a single unit, to underline that avoiding plagiarism is more than just choosing synonyms. If only WN:Plagiarism were ready for prime time yet, that would be a better link here than WN:Copyright.
 * --Pi zero (talk) 22:23, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Howdy - alt approach
We're getting wordy again, but thanks to people for the template's praise.

I think we need, in less than 15 words, something that stops people dead; then, a condensed version of the above bullet list.

A news-related joke? --Brian McNeil / talk 21:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

 * Thoughts,... Some links are within the template, courtesy of Bawolff. How's about one to the create tab, where a title can be entered?
 * Do we want DPLs in that tab? Pending, developing. &c?
 * The 'submit for review' can be dropped from above; tweak it in the developing template, stick that up-top (radical, but...). --Brian McNeil / talk 21:52, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Howdy - third draft
plink to the rescue,...

 * How to write an article
 * Pick
 * Use two
 * Read your sources before . Do choose a before starting.
 * Follow Wikinews' for articles, answering as many of  as you can; summarised in a short, two- or three-sentence opening paragraph. When complete, your article should be at least three paragraphs.
 * If you need help,

Okay, based on the suggestions above, and by use of the plink template, I've 'hidden' additional content. What are peoples' thoughts on this approach? Any specific word changes? Can it be trimmed (outwith the mouseover)? --Brian McNeil / talk 12:55, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
 * When using plink like that, just be aware that 90% of people don't notice or read tooltips. I actually had an interesting talk with a newbie today who had trouble with the welcome message. When of the things he said was that the help stuff he read did not mention the 5 w's, so i think its good that we're mentioning such things. Bawolff ☺☻ 13:00, 24 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm going to tweak plink, so there's an option to put a superscripted question mark. Since we've had one call in 2h20m, I'm sure I'll be able to re-draft howdy today. --Brian McNeil / talk 10:19, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

 * What suggestions do people have for this 'draft'? --Brian McNeil / talk 11:45, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

 * IMHO we're in the late stages of refining something good.
 * Unfortunately, I doubt mouse-overs can be made to answer my reasons for more specific links (i.e., links to more compact instructions).  I still favor links WN:CG rather than WN:CG, and WN:SG rather than WN:NC.  Clicking links is always going to be the primary way to look for more information, so the mouse-overs will almost always be missed.
 * For those great intermediate-level-of-detail mouse-overs to be successfully delivered to the newcomer in a hurry, they would have to use the dominant click-on-the-link vector, which I suppose would mean either a separate page for each of them, or a separate page for all of them collectively. The extra page/s seem like yet another thing to trip over; I think I'd still rather just make the links a bit more specific as described above.

 * My pessimistic view of the superscripted question marks is that the user will be puzzled by them; won't recognize them as indicators of mouse-overs; and will click on them (as they would on footnote links), causing them to entirely miss the intermediate level of detail.
 * The "You can use this tab ..." link doesn't degrade gracefully when Javascript is turned off.
 * --Pi zero (talk) 16:15, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Right. Can you list the specific links, or simply put the direct-to-wherever ones into my sub-page template. I agree mostly with Bawolff and yourself regarding tooltips, but a superscripted question mark is a standard for indicating presence of tooltips. Sadly, there's no easy way that I know of to make disabled Javascript degrade gracefully on the inter-template links.
 * The only last little tweaks I'd like are: a little whitespace around the bottom section of the primary tab; a horizontal bar, appropriately coloured, after the 5 points. Do you think it should be a numbered list, or simple bullet points?
 * Aside: someone else may well have to complete this, I'll only be back on the mobile and the template is too big to edit via it. --Brian McNeil / talk 16:52, 25 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I made two links more "specific".
 * Numbered list, as now, is better. Strengthens the impression of instructions.
 * --Pi zero (talk) 18:14, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Help, my article isn't being published!
My latest article, Matt Cardle wins X Factor final; tops UK singles chart, has not been published and has just been marked as stale, even though there is a source from one day ago and the news is still technically news. Can someone please improve, edit and/or review my article? -- Rayboy8 ( my talk ) ( my contributions ) 22:53, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
 * And, it isn't going to be published. I checked the edit history; not one edit indicates you drew a single factual item from that source. Do not try to "game the system", especially not for "Bread and Circuses" stuff. --00:47, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
 * In my defence, I would like to state that the first three failed reviews were for minor mistakes that could have been easily rectified. The next three reviews then all said the same thing: "Stale". However, I won't bother trying to get the article published anymore. I therefore give up on this article. -- Rayboy8 ( my talk ) ( my contributions ) 03:01, 30 December 2010 (UTC)


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User talk:JosephJoseph~enwikinews

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called JosephJoseph. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name JosephJoseph~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:19, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:32, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

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User talk:ThseringENT

Please read some of the above template's content
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title: User talk:McTurbo1300


text: User talk:Schwenkert56

title: User talk:Schwenkert56


text: User talk:Littlekiddy

title: User talk:Littlekiddy


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title: User talk:Rockwell82


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title: User talk:D4b0y


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title: User talk:Toro Ridwan


text: User talk:Kevin nalus

title: User talk:Kevin nalus


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title: User talk:3pie


text: User talk:Slushee Xii

title: User talk:Slushee Xii


text: User talk:Classical Reader

title: User talk:Classical Reader


text: User talk:Ketoi17

title: User talk:Ketoi17


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title: User talk:BigJ55


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title: User talk:G0parra


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title: User talk:Anandsk


text: User talk:C jr112368

title: User talk:C jr112368


text: User talk:Fiestatime

title: User talk:Fiestatime


text: User talk:Jesusdelgado25

title: User talk:Jesusdelgado25


text:
Thread:Comments:Berlusconi proposes January elections if government fails to gain parliamentary majority/Il popolo unito non sarà mai sconfitto!

Abbasso Berlusconi e le corporazioni avide! Lunga la democrazia diretta e il popolo italiano!


text: User talk:Harambe888

title: User talk:Harambe888


text: User talk:Prealth

title: User talk:Prealth


text: User talk:Бурсак

title: User talk:Бурсак


text: User talk:Daviddepok

title: User talk:Daviddepok


text:
Thread:Comments:'Serious' terror threat in Mumbai; police hunt four suspected militants/Comments from feedback form - "Some details omitted here, for..."

Some details omitted here, for completeness: Police authorities released names, psuedonyms, sketches of one of the suspects and two alert phone numbers. The NSG commando unit is on standby alert. Defense forces are on "orange" alert. (Highest alert state, other than war.) Cities including Bangalore have also issued similar warnings.


text: User talk:Nitroxium

title: User talk:Nitroxium


text: User talk:Abcmishra

title: User talk:Abcmishra


text: User talk:Najeeb.sharifi

title: User talk:Najeeb.sharifi


text: User talk:Vaysokram

title: User talk:Vaysokram


text: User talk:Meetkousik

title: User talk:Meetkousik


text: User talk:Noble.Jeremy

title: User talk:Noble.Jeremy


text: User talk:Samadkharoti

title: User talk:Samadkharoti


text: User talk:San kr

title: User talk:San kr


text: User talk:Luisra335577

title: User talk:Luisra335577


text: User talk:Quydo81

title: User talk:Quydo81


text: User talk:Вованус

title: User talk:Вованус


text: User talk:Rohit nshd

title: User talk:Rohit nshd


text: User talk:Ha yeu trang

title: User talk:Ha yeu trang


text: User talk:Aakashgv

title: User talk:Aakashgv


text: User talk:Eunlang

title: User talk:Eunlang


text: User talk:Ginayang95

title: User talk:Ginayang95


text: User talk:ตง

title: User talk:ตง


text: User talk:Taxpert Professionals

title: User talk:Taxpert Professionals


text: User talk:Leondela008

title: User talk:Leondela008


text: User talk:K 4515 2

title: User talk:K 4515 2


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title: User talk:Sanjaysuman1992


text: Talk:Sergei Sidorsky replaced as Belarusian prime minister


text: Comments:Sergei Sidorsky replaced as Belarusian prime minister


text: User talk:Grizzygonzilla

title: User talk:Grizzygonzilla


text: User talk:Sepi grime

title: User talk:Sepi grime


text: User talk:Angelwily

title: User talk:Angelwily


text: User talk:Abhi912

title: User talk:Abhi912


text: Talk:US pool player Wade Crane dies in car accident age 66


text: Comments:US pool player Wade Crane dies in car accident age 66


text: User talk:WestLife Yang

title: User talk:WestLife Yang


text: User talk:Abhi13

title: User talk:Abhi13


text: User talk:Blinkychou

title: User talk:Blinkychou


text: User talk:Praveenswami

title: User talk:Praveenswami


text: User talk:AgaBlondi

title: User talk:AgaBlondi


text: User talk:Pamenary

title: User talk:Pamenary


text: User talk:Wikispott

title: User talk:Wikispott


text: User talk:Aravind nara

title: User talk:Aravind nara


text: User talk:HeroidShehu

title: User talk:HeroidShehu


text:
User talk:Shahi~enwikinews

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Shahi. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Shahi~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:29, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:36, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Shahi~enwikinews


text: User talk:JOHN KENEDY

title: User talk:JOHN KENEDY


text: User talk:Ml4ml

title: User talk:Ml4ml


text: User talk:Disan007

title: User talk:Disan007


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title: User talk:Miguelopes1


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title: User talk:Khushaboo chawda


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title: User talk:Zia0002


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title: User talk:Marinella84


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title: User talk:RailbirdJAM2


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title: User talk:Ambkj123


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title: User talk:Alwaysmirza


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title: User talk:Arnynagy


text:
Thread:Comments:Two founding members of Paramore leave band/Comments from feedback form - "I can rely on this!"

I can rely on this!


text: User talk:HalvisC

title: User talk:HalvisC


text:
Thread:Comments:Beatles' 'Hey Jude' becomes their most downloaded song on iTunes/Comments from feedback form - "The Beatles rock!"

The Beatles rock!


text: User talk:Fabios15

title: User talk:Fabios15


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title: User talk:Lor cahani


text: User talk:Ahmadnasuhacvr

title: User talk:Ahmadnasuhacvr


text: User talk:Amlan 19

title: User talk:Amlan 19


text: User talk:Vale07

title: User talk:Vale07


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title: User talk:Issa Hanna


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title: User talk:Kukkijitalent


text: User talk:Elephird

title: User talk:Elephird


text: User talk:Paulo Gigante

title: User talk:Paulo Gigante


text: User talk:Paulo Franco de Camargo

title: User talk:Paulo Franco de Camargo


text: User talk:H.frentzel

title: User talk:H.frentzel


text: Comments:'Very serious': Chinese government releases corruption report


text: User talk:Marioilgrande55

title: User talk:Marioilgrande55


text: User talk:Brazilindianetwork

title: User talk:Brazilindianetwork


text: User talk:Prince ifeanyi

title: User talk:Prince ifeanyi


text: User talk:Galeksic

title: User talk:Galeksic


text: User talk:Agordon56

title: User talk:Agordon56


text: Category:Alexander Lukashenko

title: Category:Alexander Lukashenko


text: User talk:Mannureddy

title: User talk:Mannureddy


text: User talk:Philip.zuzarte

title: User talk:Philip.zuzarte


text: User talk:V m rajamohan

title: User talk:V m rajamohan


text: User talk:Barni4539

title: User talk:Barni4539


text: User talk:ChelseaFanJT26

title: User talk:ChelseaFanJT26


text: User talk:Dogwalkercom

title: User talk:Dogwalkercom


text: User talk:Ivanisgaie

title: User talk:Ivanisgaie


text: User talk:Arif.hasan150

title: User talk:Arif.hasan150


text: User talk:The gladiater

title: User talk:The gladiater


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title: User talk:Avinashkhemon


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title: User talk:John Lunney


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title: User talk:Peace River


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title: User talk:Lexusuns


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title: User talk:Zhengwey


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title: User talk:Phuanhquoc


text: User talk:Myselfpbppbp

title: User talk:Myselfpbppbp


text: User talk:Zoit

title: User talk:Zoit


text: User talk:Kksahibz

title: User talk:Kksahibz


text: User talk:דניאל צבי

title: User talk:דניאל צבי


text: User talk:Dharmensa

title: User talk:Dharmensa


text: User talk:Mail929

title: User talk:Mail929


text: User talk:P.lagiewka

title: User talk:P.lagiewka


text: User talk:PMarketing

title: User talk:PMarketing


text: User talk:BaroqueFox

title: User talk:BaroqueFox


text: User talk:EllenDMP

title: User talk:EllenDMP


text: User talk:Eokan

title: User talk:Eokan


text: User talk:Mow7

title: User talk:Mow7


text: User talk:Dove

title: User talk:Dove


text: User talk:Memati bach

title: User talk:Memati bach


text: User talk:Evankeane

title: User talk:Evankeane


text:
User:Quentinv57/vector.js

mw.loader.load('https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Quentinv57/global.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript');

title: User:Quentinv57/vector.js


text: User talk:Parthisix

title: User talk:Parthisix


text:
Thread:Comments:Files will risk 'countless' lives, Obama administration warns Wikileaks/Comments from feedback form - "its reliable because the impor..."

its reliable because the important points are really marked in such a manner that one can easily point out and understand it in simple way


text: User talk:Dewasish

title: User talk:Dewasish


text: User talk:Jnao

title: User talk:Jnao


text: User talk:Floricanto

title: User talk:Floricanto


text: User talk:Stabilo-8

title: User talk:Stabilo-8


text: User talk:Artemtheterrible

title: User talk:Artemtheterrible


text: User talk:Guitarmandan23

title: User talk:Guitarmandan23


text: User talk:AR bd

title: User talk:AR bd


text: User talk:Cowboykyles5000

title: User talk:Cowboykyles5000


text: User talk:Jv9johnv

title: User talk:Jv9johnv


text: User talk:Gariseiro

title: User talk:Gariseiro


text: User talk:A Weekes17

title: User talk:A Weekes17


text: User talk:Nkondury

title: User talk:Nkondury


text: User talk:Paradoxs

title: User talk:Paradoxs


text: User talk:Rogerbarr

title: User talk:Rogerbarr


text: User talk:Wraith2700

title: User talk:Wraith2700


text: User talk:DorreenR

title: User talk:DorreenR


text: User talk:Idnomiar

title: User talk:Idnomiar


text: User talk:Yuriy Savkiv

title: User talk:Yuriy Savkiv


text: User talk:Francyvania

title: User talk:Francyvania


text: User talk:Celino de oliveira

title: User talk:Celino de oliveira


text: User talk:Mchopinpl

title: User talk:Mchopinpl


text: User talk:Sir. Somerset

title: User talk:Sir. Somerset


text: User talk:RASTUS ADAIR

title: User talk:RASTUS ADAIR


text: User talk:Lucas Mavinga

title: User talk:Lucas Mavinga


text: User talk:Eas551

title: User talk:Eas551


text: User talk:TEEBIRDIE

title: User talk:TEEBIRDIE


text: User talk:BananaLove13

title: User talk:BananaLove13


text: User talk:Wedaprimic

title: User talk:Wedaprimic


text: User talk:Rasiyah Iyas Rasidi

title: User talk:Rasiyah Iyas Rasidi


text: User talk:Ianmoise

title: User talk:Ianmoise


text: User talk:Arturo andrade urbina

title: User talk:Arturo andrade urbina


text: User talk:Wellard123

title: User talk:Wellard123


text: User talk:Eliaselias

title: User talk:Eliaselias


text: User talk:Josh1865

title: User talk:Josh1865


text: User talk:Александар Дичоски

title: User talk:Александар Дичоски


text: User talk:Merlin1323

title: User talk:Merlin1323


text: Category:Tommy Sheridan

title: Category:Tommy Sheridan


text: User talk:Manuherisson

title: User talk:Manuherisson


text:
User talk:Klaus Piotrik Qais Felli-Littmann

Re
I've responded to your comment at my talk page. Once again, apologies for the misunderstanding, I didn't even suspect that it's a story. Hope you go with it well. --Gryllida 22:24, 8 May 2011 (UTC)


text: User talk:Matriz1961

title: User talk:Matriz1961


text:
Thread:Comments:'Very serious': Chinese government releases corruption report/Comments from feedback form - "hope china can do something fu..."

hope china can do something further to alleviate the corruption.make the society justier!


text: User talk:Wiilwaal2010

title: User talk:Wiilwaal2010


text: User talk:Fyodor Pavlovitch

title: User talk:Fyodor Pavlovitch


text: User talk:Specfile116

title: User talk:Specfile116


text: User talk:Jeb1986

title: User talk:Jeb1986


text: User talk:Worldinfish

title: User talk:Worldinfish


text:
Thread:Comments:'Very serious': Chinese government releases corruption report/Comments from feedback form - "hope china can do something fu..."/reply

Yes, we all knew that there are much more things to do to get it better. It's far more to close to the real world. Hopefull, but still a long time to wait.


text: User talk:Ottfried

title: User talk:Ottfried


text: User talk:Mmcneely2

title: User talk:Mmcneely2


text: User talk:ANHHOABAN

title: User talk:ANHHOABAN


text: User talk:Defnej

title: User talk:Defnej


text:
User talk:Redmorgan~enwikinews

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Redmorgan. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Redmorgan~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:24, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:36, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Redmorgan~enwikinews


text: User talk:Nikolucky

title: User talk:Nikolucky


text: User talk:Foong

title: User talk:Foong


text: User talk:Peacock.Lane

title: User talk:Peacock.Lane


text: User talk:Nur sobah

title: User talk:Nur sobah


text: User talk:Anickguerra

title: User talk:Anickguerra


text: User talk:Mailboy

title: User talk:Mailboy


text: User talk:Lequanghuong

title: User talk:Lequanghuong


text:
Memorial service held for model found dead in Missouri mansion

December 31, 2010

A memorial service was held Thursday for Adrienne Nicole Martin, the model found dead two weeks ago in the Missouri, US mansion of former CEO. Martin, of Native American ethnicity, was 27 years old when she died of unknown causes, said investigators.

Martin, who had been dating the 46-year-old Busch for "the last several months" according to friends, was a native of. She had previously been married to 45-year-old doctor Kevin J. Martin until February 2009, when they divorced, and had joint custody of their eight-year-old son. Adrienne Martin had a profile on iStudio, a modeling website, where she said she wanted to become an. She also expressed a desire to "to do beer advertising" and work in the modeling industry. At the time of her death, Martin had been working toward a master's degree in art therapy.

The memorial service for Martin was held at South Haven Baptist Church in Springfield. Busch was not among the estimated 100 people attending the service, nor was he mentioned during it. The only speaker was the church's pastor, Scott Watson, who read letters from Martin's friends. Her son and other relatives sat in the front row while she was remembered as a gifted artist and dedicated mother. Lacy Elet, one of Martin's friends, later said Martin was happy that "her life was finally in order." Her obituary in the  called Busch "the love of her life." However, one of Martin's uncles, Andy Eby, said after the service, "There are too many questions and not enough answers."

Martin was found unconscious by Michael Jung, who worked at Busch's mansion, at 12:30 p.m. (18:30 ) on December 19. At 1:12 p.m., Jung called emergency services, saying, "This girl's just not waking up." When asked if she was breathing, Jung responded with, "We don't know. It's dark back there. I'm gonna get a light and try and see." At 1:26 p.m., Martin was pronounced dead at the scene by emergency workers. Law enforcement officials said the room was dark because there were blackout "curtains drawn in the bedroom."

An on Martin's body did not find any trauma-related injuries, and the official cause of death has not been established by investigators. A report, expected to take several weeks, will likely be used to determine the reason Martin died. Police said Martin's body did not exhibit any "apparent signs of trauma or other indications of cause of death." According to her ex-husband, Adrienne Martin had a rare heart condition, called, which can cause and. Kevin Martin said his ex-wife never sought medical advice on her condition and did not talk about it with friends.

Police said that Busch was home at the 2 million mansion when Martin was discovered, and that the ongoing investigation is being handled by the Police Department and the  Medical Examiner's Office. Art Margulis, a lawyer for August Busch IV, said Martin was visiting the residence and that there is "absolutely nothing suspicious" surrounding her death.


text: User talk:Masawma

title: User talk:Masawma


text: User talk:Kissmex

title: User talk:Kissmex


text: User talk:Mmpeters

title: User talk:Mmpeters


text: User talk:Udayk303

title: User talk:Udayk303


text: User talk:CharlesiX

title: User talk:CharlesiX


text: User talk:Uk4tech

title: User talk:Uk4tech


text: User talk:SARAH777

title: User talk:SARAH777


text: User talk:Syr.Echo

title: User talk:Syr.Echo


text: File:Adrienne Martin promo pic.jpg

title: File:Adrienne Martin promo pic.jpg


text: User talk:Tinhthaison

title: User talk:Tinhthaison


text: User talk:Hatosuki

title: User talk:Hatosuki


text: User talk:Saksham Agrawal

title: User talk:Saksham Agrawal


text: User talk:Andbrew.downes

title: User talk:Andbrew.downes


text: User talk:Kevinmalekai

title: User talk:Kevinmalekai


text: User talk:5stringdaniels

title: User talk:5stringdaniels


text: User talk:N.poovendhan

title: User talk:N.poovendhan


text: User talk:Aldnonymous

title: User talk:Aldnonymous


text: User talk:Potroloco73

title: User talk:Potroloco73


text: User talk:Ahmadzianiazi

title: User talk:Ahmadzianiazi


text: User talk:Asmaradana

title: User talk:Asmaradana


text: User talk:Dr. Neeraj Srivastava

title: User talk:Dr. Neeraj Srivastava


text: User talk:Iida-yosiaki

title: User talk:Iida-yosiaki


text: User talk:Arindam5314034

title: User talk:Arindam5314034


text: User talk:Huboqq

title: User talk:Huboqq


text: User talk:Storgaard54

title: User talk:Storgaard54


text: User talk:Renedlam

title: User talk:Renedlam


text: User talk:Tanmay Thakkar

title: User talk:Tanmay Thakkar


text: User talk:Navin49

title: User talk:Navin49


text: User talk:ComputerGeek706

title: User talk:ComputerGeek706


text: User talk:Dhillonds

title: User talk:Dhillonds


text: User talk:Nezzer9

title: User talk:Nezzer9


text: User talk:Kiemma265

title: User talk:Kiemma265


text: User talk:STYX69

title: User talk:STYX69


text: User talk:Clicgauche

title: User talk:Clicgauche


text: User talk:Silviu Mih,

title: User talk:Silviu Mih,


text: User talk:WiktorT

title: User talk:WiktorT


text: User talk:Kitty41

title: User talk:Kitty41


text:
Thread:Comments:'Completely irresponsible' woman called emergency services to report theft of snowman/Police describe woman who reports the theft of two pounds and some cuttlery as "totally irresponsible"./reply (5)

Indeed, the situation described was clearly inappropriate and wasteful. My point was simply that the theft of five pounds, (or another small sum) could- in certain limited circumstances- merit dialing 999.


text:
Thread:Comments:'Completely irresponsible' woman called emergency services to report theft of snowman/999?/reply (12)

Actually, If you've ever used a genuine rotary phone, 999 is much easier to accurately dial in a panic than 111. Most rotary phones would only have a stop at the end of the wheel (9) making it nearly impossible to botch. Dialing "1" three times in quick succession however it could be very east to overshoot-especially if the caller's hands were shaky - accidently dialing 2, 3 etc... Just find an old rotary phone and try it some time, You'll immediately see what I mean.


text: User talk:Président

title: User talk:Président


text: User talk:Mamilolo1

title: User talk:Mamilolo1


text: User talk:Salvatore vito

title: User talk:Salvatore vito


text: User talk:AngelusGlam

title: User talk:AngelusGlam


text: Talk:Memorial service held for model found dead in Missouri mansion


text: Comments:Memorial service held for model found dead in Missouri mansion


text: User talk:Ehyori

title: User talk:Ehyori


text:
Thread:Comments:Interpol orders arrest of Wikileaks founder to face rape charges/Comments from feedback form - "I am outraged by what s happen..."/reply

Cynthia, You can send them a contribution in the postal mail, the address is:

BOX 4080 Australia Post Office - University of Melbourne Branch Victoria 3052 Australia

P.S. I am outraged that Wikileaks' website is blocked in Dubai, It's the first I've heard of it. Those bloody morons have no right to prevent the public from accessing information, Internet censorship is a real sign of barbarism and backwardness. I'm very proud to live in a country that doesn't block websites.


text: User talk:Skcdesilva

title: User talk:Skcdesilva


text:
Thread:Comments:Interpol orders arrest of Wikileaks founder to face rape charges/wiki leaks founder/reply (13)

It's very clear that you are in favour of oligarchy rather than democracy. That's okay, that's your opinion and i respect your right to it. Not everyone has to like democracy, that wouldn't be very democratic now would it. The problem is that if you support oligarchy, your opinion is functionally irrelevant, unless of course you are a member of the the oligarchy itself.


text:
Thread:Comments:Interpol orders arrest of Wikileaks founder to face rape charges/wiki leaks founder/reply (14)

Apparently so.

If Barack Hussein Obama tries to prosecute, apprehend or in anyway intimidate Wikileaks, He is violating his Oath of office:to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.


text:
Thread:Comments:Interpol orders arrest of Wikileaks founder to face rape charges/Timing/reply

Well said!


text:
Thread:Comments:Interpol orders arrest of Wikileaks founder to face rape charges/Comments from feedback form - "Interpol orders arrest of Wiki..."/reply (2)

Agreed


text: User talk:Icecrypt

title: User talk:Icecrypt


text: User talk:Berkaygayr

title: User talk:Berkaygayr


text: User talk:Gregschlongcock

title: User talk:Gregschlongcock


text: User talk:SabreScribe

title: User talk:SabreScribe


text: User talk:Nitroman45

title: User talk:Nitroman45


text: User talk:Shantarajpawar

title: User talk:Shantarajpawar


text: User talk:Jw2

title: User talk:Jw2


text: User talk:Wikisaurus (old)

title: User talk:Wikisaurus (old)


text: User talk:Pico51

title: User talk:Pico51


text: User talk:Oldcooteral

title: User talk:Oldcooteral


text: User talk:Viorel14negura

title: User talk:Viorel14negura


text: User talk:Marti333

title: User talk:Marti333


text: User talk:Roberto Moraci

title: User talk:Roberto Moraci


text:
User talk:Zwindlefun12231

Blocked
If you haven't already noticed; you've been blocked,... 'to infinity, and beyond!''.

When you graduate from kindergarten, please educate yourself about Internet Law. Then, come sue me. I'll get great copy from a Scottish judge dismissing your case and putting you in the cells overnight for wasting the court's time with your idiocy.

Further disruption of Wikinews will result in your computer being replaced with an Etch-a-Sketch. --Brian McNeil / talk 16:13, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

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Comments:Italy score two late in Extra Time to advance to finals, hosts Germany to play in third place match

Comments from feedback form - "Very good description about a ..."
Very good description about a very good match ! —93.108.218.39 (talk) 13:13, 31 December 2010 (UTC)


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Thread:Comments:'Completely irresponsible' woman called emergency services to report theft of snowman/999?/reply (13)

Bzzzt! Wrong!

And, I'm old enough to have grown up with rotary dial. The stop is at the low-digit end. You stick your finger in, and turn the dial to the stop. The arc traversed to dial a 9 is the longest.

But, thanks for playing.


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New Year’s Eve tornado slams northwest Arkansas, killing three

December 31, 2010

Three are dead after a tornado hit Cincinnati, a small town in Arkansas, about three miles from Oklahoma’s border. Around 6:00 local time, on Friday, the system, fed by warm winter air, caused several injuries, damaging the power grid.

Josh Howerton, the ’s sheriff’s dispatcher, stated that the storm touched down near the town’s center. "Lots of injuries" were reported. A tornado warning for Cincinnati and nearby towns was issued by the weather center nine minutes before the storm struck.

"Any time you have a significant change in air mass there is going to be unsettled weather marking the two different air masses," said Joe Sellers, a meteorologist from the in Oklahoma.


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Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals/archives/2010/December

GLAM Wiki UK 2010
Hi everyone. Could anybody write article about this event. We have some pictures in Commons: commons:Category:GLAM Wiki UK 2010. Some info is here. BTW - do you want translation of the Sabat - meeting of sister projects editors pl:W Poznaniu odbyło się robocze spotkanie projektów Wikimedia? Przykuta (talk) 21:28, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Whilst Wikinews is in a bit of a trough, this would likely not have been covered anyway. That because, as WMF-related, it is effectively navel-gazingl; a practice that is generally frowned-up. --Brian McNeil / talk 12:57, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

There is something wrong here.
What's up with all of you? Wikinews has been stagnant for long. I don't really know what are the reasons, but I'm seeing the same leads in the main page. Don't you like to write now? Or are the reviewers taking too much time to review every article? That may be the reason why Wikinews is not working well, I say. We have to correct this now:

Or:

 * 1) We do a massive de-reviewership: those who are not reviewing articles certainly don't need the right, and thus are just making numbers higher;
 * 2) Those who care about this, will begin to do reviews constantly, for the good of the project.

If you love Wikinews as I do, I'm sure you will choose one option or the other. I haven't got the time to come here and review or write articles, I have too much homework at school, and I really need to get concentrated on real life things, rather than to stay the entire day in front of a computer. Thank you all.

Diego Grez return fire 19:45, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

 * Review waits are dismal. Many of our articles are coming from people as-yet too inexperienced to receive reviewer, or who do not have English as a native language. A supply of people regularly writing has dried up. As previously alluded to, sometimes I feel like I'm running this place by myself. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 19:57, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * BRS, Diego, I feel your pain. I wish I could devote 3-4 hrs to the project on most days. At that, solely devoting it to reviewing, could perhaps process four, or five, well written articles. See BRS' last-reviewed-by-me; note timescales in the history. It's probably 3+ weeks since I used a non-3G device to edit onsite. I'm looking for a mega-cheap netbook, that I can tether to, as a solution. -Brian McNeil / talk 22:27, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

 * It would be a tremendous help. Right now, there's two articles sitting at ~24 hours wait - I wrote one and trimmed 300 bytes from the other, so there's nothing I can do. Who knows when they'll get reviewed? I have invested many hours in a huge prepared story. The jury is out tonight; a verdict is highly likely tomorrow. Will anybody actually review it? Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 22:50, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * If need be, I'll try to for your article. I trust you not to commit copyvio, and it is a simple double-check with best-effort c/e - plus 2nd pair of eyes factcheck.
 * I'll take a look at the queue of others just now; life is what happens when you're busy making plans. --Brian McNeil / talk 00:09, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Certainly Brian, that's not my goal. That is exactly what I don't want you to do, "to run this place by yourselves." Wikinews needs more publicity, or something, urgently. Diego Grez return fire 00:56, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. I didn't mind the odd slow day, even one isolated slow week where it was down to a bare handful was fine. A slow month? I can't keep this place afloat on my own, neither can two or three of us - no matter how we try. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 00:59, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

 * We have a long-term problem here. A (sort of) boom and bust cycle, playing out on a scale of multiple years.

 * Our community dynamic is unstable, resulting in the boom that peaked early this year, and the bust we're in now, because we (necessarily) don't have AGF. No AGF means that unpleasantness doesn't get to hide behind superficial forms.  In good times, our authenticity makes this a bright place (quite refreshing compared to WP), leading to more new contributors and more good times.  When things go sour, the reverse happens.  Boom and bust.

 * To get out of the current trough, one thing we need is to nurture a positive atmosphere. Not superficial forms, and not intangible thoughts, but —so to speak— positive meanings.  Encouragement, corny as that sounds.  Does criticism include how to improve?  When an article dies without publication, is the author left with feedback on their talk page?  When contributors succeed, does anyone praise or congratulate them?  (Is anyone still awarding barnstars?)  --Pi zero (talk) 01:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Valid points but, I still don't think AGF (or AGI) will resolve this.
 * I have gone out of my way to try and deal with issues in a less-heavy-handed way recently; however, the project integrity must be maintained - no copyvio, or close rewording; quality writing; and, little to no distraction for those contributing or reviewing.
 * The project always tails off when a new academic term starts. Would that we could bring back BrianNZ and the other antipodeans to their prior contribution levels but, no.
 * Taking reviewer off people won't help. But, perhaps a brief 'standardised' review refresher could be sust'd on inactive reviewers' talk pages plus a short email to them? --Brian McNeil / talk 13:43, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed, AGF as such is wrong for Wikinews. It causes problems on WP that would be complete non-starters here (and whether even WP, with its very different operational requirements, can tolerate those problems in the long run remains to be seen).
 * AGI in its present form isn't a final answer for us either, although with some care, and as a temporary stopgap, it can be better than nothing... provided it doesn't bias our thinking as we look for something better. I don't see AGI ever becoming a guideline.

 * Reducing the number of reviewers won't increase the number of reviews. (The suggestion has us thinking outside the box, though!)  --Pi zero (talk) 15:17, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Arbitrary section break
Something really does need to be done about the review times. Some articles are left to be reviewed hours after they have had a request placed. In the end, the article ends up being published up to days after the event has occurred. I do understand also that the time that an article takes to be published is heavily reliant on the author and the quality of the article (I, for one, can say that my articles have been heavily scrutinised for quality and have taken days to publish. I can understand that, I'm new here - I also hope everyone else understands that) but it would be great to see some faster reviews occurring. Really, reviewer status should only be granted to the most active members of WN who contribute consistent quantities (and high quality) articles. I also think the reminder system (below) may assist is sifting through who are the active reviewers and who aren't. (I would just like to say also that I am on a bit of a learning curve here and I know that my articles may not be 100% polished at the moment, but I have the best interests of Wikinews in mind and I am trying my hardest.) Thanks ~YTT (talk) 05:44, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no incentive to review a poorly written article. The standards expected on Wikinews are surprisingly high, and it is a really substantial amount of work to fix poor grammar, revise to active voice, then sift through a substantial number of sources to verify that an article if factually accurate and free from plagiarism. --Brian McNeil / talk 12:56, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Your point brings up the fact that not only do we need to build up a base of consistent and experienced authors amongst the community (learning the ins and outs of WN does take a while - I, for one, am on a bit of a learning curve still), but it also highlights the fact that there are only a select group of very active reviewers at the moment. There is too much of a workload and too many reviewers not participating actively. Brian, I also understand that you have a large workload and working through lower-quality articles may be tedious. You were the reviewer of my Wikileaks articles which received fails. I can see my errors now and after learning with my previous experiences, I will be able to produce high-quality articles on a regular basis. I do have (as I said before) the best intent when I am writing my articles - my errors just all come down to a lack of experience. (Just a side note to all of this - can my article on the Wikileaks PayPal donation saga be deleted? Reasoning and other info on talk page). Thanks, ~YTT (talk) 05:44, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

 * Anything that improves the quality of contributions should reduce review times.

 * The key teaching aspect of the peer-review skill is not yet, and should be, addressed in my still-fledgling essay WN:Tips on reviewing articles (of which the checklist has been, IMHO, vastly the most useful part thus far).

 * We should, and do, also keep looking for ways to more effectively convey some of the basics of article-writing to newcomers up front. The general trend, over the two years I've been here, has been toward shorter and shorter blurbs; over the past few days I've been contemplating drafting a precis of synthesis writing that would fit on a single "standard" screen (just in time for the standard-sized screen to go the way of the CRT).  --Pi zero (talk) 14:43, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

 * I don't think people, when they join, either can be bothered reading the guides available or they want to get straight into writing articles without paying any careful attention to what they are doing. Somehow, there needs to be a way to get people to read the guides so they can adopt the appropriate conventions of WN to their articles. If there were no foolish mistakes from the start (which could easily be eradicated with some careful checking by the contributor(s), the reviewers would have a much easier job and publish times would be greatly lowered. I don't really know a solution to the problem now, but I know something needs to be done about it in the end. Possibly there could be an example article with annotations of key points on it that people could look at. Thanks ~YTT (talk) 05:44, 12 December 2010 (UTC)
 * (Just as another side-note) - Yesterday, I wrote a new article and submitted it for peer review. It has been sitting, waiting to be reviewed, for nearly 24 hours now. It hasn't even been reviewed once. There are also a few other articles sitting there as well which have been there for a while. This is taking too long - something does need to be done about the review times. Thanks, ~YTT (talk) 04:29, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Proposed 'reminder'
How about this being subst'd onto inactive reviewer talk pages. If no reaction in a couple of weeks, follow up with an email. --Brian McNeil / talk 14:08, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Well it may cause a few people to become a bit more active, at the end of the day, people have the right to leave, and no amount of talk page prodding is going to change that. Bawolff ☺☻ 18:02, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't have the free time to contribute to the project that I did a couple years ago. I do like to review articles though, and an occasional once a week (or month, or whatever) "get off your arse" email/talkpagemessage might cause me to review a bit more. Nothing is going to make me get up to my previous levels of activity (which were never as high as some people's, but I was more active than I am now), but if you happen to send out that message when I have nothing else to do, I might end up reviewing an article instead of doing something else.

 * I can't speak for everyone though. Some people might just find it annoying. Gopher65talk 23:29, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll take that as a vote of comfidence gopher. To me, the point we should put across is that most people with reviewer have good grammar, and good copyedit skills. Even just a couple of hours of their time each week could up the article output. I am very reluctant to "punish" - as Diego's complaint comes across as. With such a small community our more seasoned editors, such as yourself, can teach a lot to the proto-journos.
 * BRS will back me up on how much "wet nurse treatment" would-be journalists faced at one of Edinburgh's universities; longer-term I want people keen to get into the business to view this project as a stepping stone. You can start here whilst still at school, bypass the 'writing for dummies' part of the course, have globally published articles to prove you could, and want, to do the job. I want to be able to say, and have universities back me up, that 30+ published articles, with a couple of those at FA, is worth at least a year trimmed off the degree. Then, longer-term, we can hope the project spits out a couple of journalism award winners. That needs us keeping many of the people like yourself involved. Yes, it is very much 'the long view'; but, the respect our content is accorded will always be intertwined with our contributors and their advancement beyond Wikinews. If one or two of our contrbutors go on to be modern-day Paul Foot, or Duncan Campbells, I'll have succeeded in pushing things where I think they should go. --Brian McNeil / talk 21:07, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Synthesis Article Development Template
As a new user of Wikinews, I originally had some trouble developing articles and made many mistakes. So, just as a rough outline, I have created this - http://filesmelt.com/dl/Wikinews_Synthesis_Article_Template.pdf. It is a template for people to create a synthesis article and I think it would help people who are new to Wikinews to create a synthesis article with fewer mistakes. Currently it is in .pdf format but it would be distributed in .doc so it can be edited.

Any feedback and/or changes you think would be appropriate would be much appreciated. Thanks, ~YTT (talk) 08:19, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Since its a pdf - perhaps upload to Commons, that may gain it wider distributivity. Bawolff ☺☻ 19:03, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you have any changes or advice that you would like to give? As I said, it is only a rough outline and I am going to perfect it later. I also might make a template for original reporting too. Thanks ~YTT (talk) 22:40, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Here is the .doc version - http://filesmelt.com/dl/Wikinews_Synthesis_Article_Template_copy.doc (if you want to make any changes) . Thanks ~YTT • (talk) 23:22, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Looking at you inverted pyramid diagram, generally, the lead section is limited to only the "Who, What, Where, When, and How," with the Why saved for a later paragraph. From what I recall, this is because the Why is less important than the others. The style guide says, "Put the most important and newsworthy facts first, with least important and least immediate facts last."

You organized things so it's five paragraphs (at least from what I can tell). Most articles are varied in legnth. Compare this and this. They are six and three paragraphs respectively. I think you should reorganize the pyramid. The lead should have the basic facts that if someone reads just that, they should at least be able to give those basics to anyone who asks them if there heard about that. Then following facts ordered in most important to least.

Since paragraphs vary in length (I like to do single or two sentence paragraphs for news writing), you should keep that in mind if you redo the pyramid.

Hope that helps, and thanks for that PDF. — Mike moral  ♪♫  01:26, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

 * News articles have a lede. For more traditional news sources, the lede should be able to stand alone; this is because, due to space constraints, an editor may ruthlessly trim or just use the lede in a news 'roundup' column. Now, why is any enWN documentation being produced in a proprietary format? --Brian McNeil / talk 09:08, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Once completed, I will give the master copy of the template to enWN and it will be freely available to all users. Thanks, ~YTT • (talk) 05:30, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Updated Version (#1)
LOOK BELOW for updated version (#2)
 * PDF Version - http://filesmelt.com/dl/Wikinews_Synthesis_Article_Development_Template_copy.pdf
 * .doc Version- http://filesmelt.com/dl/Wikinews_Synthesis_Article_Development_Template_copy.doc

As before, any suggestions would be appreciated. If there is anything you want to change, make sure you tell me so I can apply it to the master. (Is there a way this can be implemented as official Wikinews documentation? It will need refining first, though. It would be good if new users could be signposted to this before they write their first article.) Thanks, ~YTT • (talk) 03:33, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * If you agree to release it under CC-BY 2.5, I can't see why it couldn't be added as documentation for Wikinews. As far as it helps the newbies, it is very welcome! Diego Grez return fire 05:24, 16 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm more than happy to do that. I'll just make a few amendments now. Thanks, ~YTT • (talk) 06:22, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

Updated Version (#2)
Okay, I hope this is the final version. If anything is wrong, though, tell me and I'll edit the master. Could any administrators also tell me if it could/is ready to be implemented as documentation in its current form? I have a .pdf and a .doc available, would both be appropriate for distribution? Thanks, ~YTT • (talk) 06:41, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

 * .pdf - http://filesmelt.com/dl/Wikinews_Synthesis_Article_Development_Template.pdf
 * .doc - http://filesmelt.com/dl/Wikinews_Synthesis_Article_Development_Template.doc

Wikinews reporters' workshops
Given that Wikinews is in a bit of a rut at the moment, and as an idea I've been toying with for quite some time, I've floated the idea of starting, and developing, a Wikinews reporters' workshop series of sessions. Ideally, this would be three or four sessions of three hours each, carried out in a library or other civic facility.

I've been cultivating the staff of Fountainbridge library in Edinburgh, including donating my copies of Private Eye to their available periodicals once I've read them. I'm fairly confident I could get a couple of the staff to back me up in persuading the council to give their PC lab for the required time to do a course. (Plus as some of our regulars will be amused by, the library's side exit is lnto Murdoch Terrace. ;-D)

Below are my seat-of-the-pants notes on what I think is required. Please add as appropriate.

Fliers
I can, trivially, put up fliers in most of Edinburgh's libraries. The proposed text is at-issue. I favour using my enWN tagline as the headline; "Facts don't cease to be facts, but news ceases to be news."

Then, a short intro to Wikinews, a simple URL to an on-project landing page, and a wikinewsie email address for people to express interest and sign up.

We're talking a class size of about 16 - Fountainbridge has no WiFi facilities. One successful run might get me more facilities, and interest from Napier college.

 * I wonder about the tagline. As you point out further down, a significant alternative here is blogs.  News-ceases-to-be-news is great for explaining our staleness policy, and our archiving policy versus Wikipedia, but versus blogs?  Seems major attractions over a current-events blog would be neutrality and rigorous verification; and over traditional news organizations, neutrality (again) and citizen journalism (and permanent free-ness, and transparency (to wax somewhat esoteric)). But we'd need another catchy tagline.  --Pi zero (talk) 01:14, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I mentioned blogs as this is something Edinburgh has run courses on, not for any other reason. --Brian McNeil / talk 10:51, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Noted. However, I mentioned blogs because they are, I suggest, an important part of how "kids today" (cue music) get information — whereas traditional news outlets are a more important part of how their parents or grandparents get information.  --Pi zero (talk) 14:32, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Emailed/Printed pre-course material
To start with, I'd want a 'pack' to email to the interested. From there, we encourage to do the sign-up on-wiki after creating an account and getting a preemptive caution on what is news, what might be good reading material, and so on. This whittles out a lot of people who might be curious, but not follow through; don't want to waste time teaching how to create an account, or the real basics of wiki editing.

Course structure

 * 1) Break into 'teams' of 3 or 4, pick a story from GNews, read a couple sources, learn to identify recycled wire reports and get independent sources. Rattle out facts from small source list on talk page, write article.
 * 2) Pick out weaknesses in subbed reports (This is where I need the rest of the community to go above and beyond in reviewing.)
 * 3) Second workshop, recap most common failings, leave groups to attempt more articles, swap to other 'teams' to copyedit, and feedback in 'class'.

By the last 'workshop' I'd want to be introducing OR, daring the more ambitious to interview local councillors, or hit the street when they hear sirens, get to the scene, photograph stuff, and ask emergency services about the situation.

Established contributor support
During, and shortly after, each class it would be essential that our established reviewers are available, and giving informative feedback. By the end of the course, I'd want to see 20%+ of those completing it nommed for reviewer.

So, I'm listing a few books I'd want on the recommended reading list. Feel free to add.

Reading list

 * Eats shoots and leaves.
 * On Writing, Stephen King
 * Strunk's

What, I think, is important is that any recommended stuff is in the library collection, or available online.

What do people think? Edinburgh's libraries run a few courses on blogging; I'm of the opinion getting published on Wikinews would be more satisfying, complimentary to that, and a start on building a more stable contributor base city-by-city. --Brian McNeil / talk 22:16, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

 * To begin with, Brian, I have to say this is a damned good idea. However, if you would like it to spread, you've got to take into account that some (i'd say quite a lot, including myself) of the experienced contributors here have regular jobs, and some with long hours. I would love to spread something like this into my local area, but to be honest, between work, home life and other committments, I'd be run ragged.  Good luck with it, but I don't think it's something I could do just yet. BarkingFish (talk) 22:58, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

 * Wonderful idea. I agree though that it'll be very hard to pull off with a small community of active users. It is possible that the WMF will be willing to help fund some sort of initiative like this; they are doing similar things on Wikipedia.  — fetch · comms  22:59, 16 December 2010 (UTC)

 * The best case for this is quite enticing. I do get that the concept really involves the Wikinews community agreeing to pitch in; I'm not too sure how realistic that is, since I suspect most of us don't have much additional discretionary time available for Wikinews above and beyond what we're already donating.  What can go wrong?  People get into this workshop.  Some of their articles go stale (and more go near-stale, losing their timeliness) waiting to be reviewed; others get failed with too little feedback to be helpful, and/or with somewhat insulting feedback; and still others get passed with poorish quality control.
 * I don't mean to be defeatist; I'm just saying that if this is to be done, it needs intrinsic robustness against negative consequences of these things — one supposes, by weaving recognition of the wiki-nature of reviewers into the fabric of the workshop from the start, and laying contingency plans to make the most of these scenarios should they occur. --Pi zero (talk) 05:30, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm quite pleased with the above feedback; it's realistic. What I'm talking about would likely be 4 sessions, say, on a Friday afternoon, running from 1500 to 1800 UTC. We're talking four articles from the first couple of sessions, possibly more in the following two. I can probably devote a couple hours after that to reviewing, and will - from having been in the lab - know that copyvio isn't an issue. I do need some support, but I don't think it is a huge amount. What is important is that people get feedback instead of just failed. --Brian McNeil / talk 08:41, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I totally agree with you Brian on the fact that people need feedback when they receive a failure on an article. With the feedback, people (hopefully) will better understand the mistake they made and won't make it again (thus reducing review times for the future). Overall, I think this is an excellent proposal and may just be the thing Wikinews was looking for. Thanks, ~YTT • (talk) 08:57, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
 * So far, nobody has said 'this will never work'; on that basis, I'm going to start putting material together. I'll be in the library in ablut an hour and will ask their staff about bloc-booking facilities for this. Logically enough, course stuff will end up on Wikiversity. --Brian McNeil / talk 10:58, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
 * If you want, you can use my synthesis article development guide for new contributors (above) and edit it to your needs. Just let me know if you need anything else. Thanks, ~YTT•(talk) 13:17, 18 December 2010 (UTC)


text:
Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals/archives/2010/November

Wikinews portal banners
All of the main Wikinews portals except for one (that's 'Crime and law', 'Culture and entertainment', 'Disasters and accidents', 'Economy and business', 'Education', 'Environment', 'Health', 'Obituaries', 'Politics and conflicts', 'Science and technology', 'Sports' and 'Weather' but not 'Wackynews') have got a Wikinews portal banner on them (like this example or this, for instance). I was considering the prospect of adding Wikinews portal banners to portals for countries. Do you approve of this idea? What is your opinion? -- Rayboy8 ( my talk ) ( my contributions ) 18:41, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I would rather the portals looked like the main page (like Brian McNeil's portal design), possibly with some kind of cutomised banner at the top, or instead of the blue Wikinews one behind the title (if we go with the latter, I don't think we should go much further than colour-coding, though). Δεν δοδγε  τ\c 21:13, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * How does User:Dendodge/Portal headers look as a preliminary suggestion? Feel free to tweak MediaWiki:Common.css/User:Dendodge/Portal headers to make them look better. Δεν δοδγε  τ\c 21:57, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I like. May I suggest the following - as two additions to integrating this with my portal design prototype?
 * Two optional parameters in my template: img_overlay= OR img_replace=.
 * These to be used to put a graphic on top of the default Wikinews logo, or to replace it altogether.
 * Then we can, as a default, put an image like scales-of-justice over the logo. Or, where folks like Diego have done a custom Chile logo, that can be used.
 * Of course, it does all still rely on more coding so the process flow is Publish->MakeLead->PortalLeads. The latter trying to run off categories (Hint, hint, Bawolff). --Brian McNeil / talk 22:38, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hint noted, but my free time is limited at the moment. Bawolff ☺☻ 04:50, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I have to say, I am impressed with the new portal headers Dendodge. They work quite nicely. Just one minor detail: The 'Disasters and accidents' portal header is lacking an image. (Although, to be honest, I have no idea as to what image to put in that gap.) Well done. -- Rayboy8 ( my talk ) ( my contributions ) 23:11, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we've been discussing that in IRC - I thought maybe a cartoon tornado or something, but I can't find one. Δεν δοδγε  τ\c 23:12, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that the image of the fire works well enough. -- Rayboy8 ( my talk ) ( my contributions ) 23:38, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
 * +1 for liking Dendodge's idea. Bawolff ☺☻ 04:50, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I think they would look better without center images. They don't really fit well. --Yair rand (talk) 05:25, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe we shoudl use Brian McNeil's idea and overlay the images over the Wikinews logo instead, then? I quite like the centre images, though - they make the banners more unique. I'd like to do both, ideally. Δεν δοδγε  τ\c 18:09, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hm, I don't know. The center image really messes up the effect of the banner; the faded Wikinews logo on the right and, to a certain extent, the text, look like they're "behind" the light blue (or whatever color) background, but the center images look "on top", enough that the effect is ruined. Maybe it could be fixed by making the center image translucent? (Is that even possible to do without having it mess up on some browsers?) --Yair rand (talk) 21:43, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Should be possible using css on firefox, webkit (safari, chrome, Konqueror), opera and IE based browsers, with it degrading gracefully to being non-translucent on other/older browsers. Bawolff ☺☻ 17:25, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm nto clever enough to do it that way, but it's a simple two-click process in Photoshop to create translucent versions. I would like the CSS approach, though, if somebody is capable of doing it. Δεν δοδγε  τ\c 17:34, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * CSS added. Not entirely sure I like the result though. Bawolff ☺☻ 17:44, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think they look too bad. I've also started making some customised Wikinews logos (so far I've done crime & law and culture & entertainment) - they're at the bottom of the page, and the crime & law one is in the place of the Wikinews logo in the top left (where they would be intended to go). How do they look so far? Δεν δοδγε  τ\c 19:18, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

 * I like the customised logos; I don't like the effect the CSS monkeying has produced. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 20:28, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Are we allowed to combine lgpl images with the logo? I personally think the new logos are a bit too busy, but thats just imho. Bawolff ☺☻ 23:42, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I just used the pictures that were already there - I'm not sure what the licensing rules are (that's part of the reason I only made two). If they're too busy, maybe we should just use the text, but I'm not sure that would give enough of a unique identity to the portals. (Ideally, we could link this with infoboxes in some way, so every main category/country infobox would have a logo associated with it, in the same way as news websites like the BBC use different templates for different types of article, but I don't know how popular that idea would be). Δεν δοδγε  τ\c 18:33, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Portal graphics - break
I've not sat and hacked thru the 'demos' yet; a point above is why I thought the CSS 'hacking' might be needed - mixing copyright licenses.

Ask Shaka to draw up a matrix of what's compatible since, technically, a new image based on the WN logo should be gifted to the Foundation. --Brian McNeil / talk 22:37, 17 November 2010 (UTC)


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