text:
Wikinews:Water cooler/technical/Archive/3

News ticker
A small, unintrusive news ticker could be added to the template on the front page. It would get the headlines dynamically from all the latest news stories.

It can be done with:

(This part is retrieved from the latest headlines)

 * (above comment posted by anonymous contributor)
 * I've never seen such a thing on a Wiki site. Is this supported by the MediaWiki software? I don't think you can add arbitrary HTML to a page, just the small subset of what is supported in MediaWiki. — DV 10:30, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, it's probably quite possible, but that doesn't mean it should be done. Marquee is a nonstandard tag and is very uncommon nowadays, it's use should be avoided.  I'm no modern HTML expert, but I must think that there would be a better way to do this.--24.70.95.205 00:42, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * It can be done with JavaScript - various examples can be found on google. Java can be used too, or flash, both of which have the added advantage of being able to easily retrieve up-to-date news, even if the page isn't refreshed. EAi 02:04, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * It can be done with JavaScript - various examples can be found on google. Java can be used too, or flash, both of which have the added advantage of being able to easily retrieve up-to-date news, even if the page isn't refreshed. EAi 02:04, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * isn't the marquee tag IE only? 24.65.22.111 01:27, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Works fine in Safari. Ludraman 23:55, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Ack - please no scrolls or popups or animations or .wav files -- Davodd | Talk 18:09, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Just a thought: Perhaps we can have some kind of ticker generated automatically with our latest headlines for off-site use, which should generate traffic back here. Same can be said for the RSS feed, but there are still a lot of issues with that imho. -- Redge (Talk) 09:23, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Separate templates on Editor's tasks
Just wondering - why? It adds another layer of complexity to an already very complex site Dan100 (Talk) 09:51, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I broke Editor's tasks into separate templates. My main motivation was so that I could get rid of the section edit links. The problem was that since Developing articles was already a template, the edit link didn't let you add stories-- just add or remove the template. To fix this, someone added a link that directed you to the editing page of the template. That worked, but then we have two links that say "edit," with no distinction between them, and only one worked. That confuses people, which is bad.
 * Given that, I wanted to either make them all into templates, or none of them. I chose the more complex route, but I wouldn't mind if we decided to make it ALL one template-- I just want the edit links to be obvious to new people. I figured that as the site grows, we'll start running into edit conflicts if we keep it all as one page.
 * One other idea-- maybe we could make the smaller, rarely used sections of Editor's tasks back into a single file, and fix the section links by some other means. That might be the best solution, and I think I know how to do it-- maybe tonight. Pingswept 14:41, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Good reasoning. I hadn't thought about the potential for edit conflicts. I think we should stick to what you've set up Dan100 (Talk) 17:55, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Stock market data - help needed
Folks, I want to put together a bot (using the Wikinewsbot framework) to automatically update Wikinews with financial market information. However, I am unable to find a good source for this data. In addition I don't even know if: Let me know if you have ideas. Otherwise I'll probably write a quick bot to read in Yahoo's CSV files, which seems legal to me, and post them here once a day. -- IlyaHaykinson 03:54, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * it is legal to screen-scrape this from somewhere (after all, this is factual data which is not copyrightable)?
 * what about reading CSV data that's provided for download by a service like Yahoo?
 * is there a free web service of some sort for this data, worldwide?
 * is there even a place other than Yahoo Finance that has a list of international market data?

 * Alright, so since nobody responded in time, I've gone ahead and implemented this. It's in testing at my wiki: see http://www.ilya.us/wiki/index.php?title=Market_Data for a list that auto-updated every 6 hours (for now).
 * I'm also thinking that we could have the bot create and maintain Template:Market_Data_INDEXNAME, so that editors of local regions could just a custom set of templates in. What do you folks think? -- IlyaHaykinson 10:52, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Brillent Ilya! I've been (quite irregularly) manually updating the figures using BBC Markets for the past few weeks. Your bot makes it much easier. Im not certain about the legality of copying the date, many stockmarkets, have there own figures listed on there websites. So there providing the figures free of charge. One thing to remember, all quotes on all media sites (yahoo, bbc, marketwatch etc.) are 15/20min delayed quotes. Thanks for your excellent work. CGorman 15:15, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I am not a lawyer (but you probably already knew that, otherwise I wouldn't be offering my opinion for free) but there is something called a "misappropriation of hot news" that is an exemption to the general ability to scrape data from other sites. This should be reviewed against Wikinews offerings by those qualified to do so.  See for example http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/metaschool/fisher/linking/doctrine/.  This applies particularly to scooping real-time data (I think). DouglasGreen 17:28, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Stock market data - help offered
My wife and I both enjoy watching the stock market (it's the first thing she checks when she wakes up each day), so I'm happy as a peach that you've chosen to pursue this project.

Although I'll continue to focus primarily on WeatherChecker until it is more capable, if you make the source available for your "MarketBot", I would enjoy helping to develop an application to generate market chart images, which would do a better job of visually communicating the market data over time.

We could call this new application "MarketChecker".

I'd also like to expand the coverage to include widely-held stocks, (starting with the Dow components).

We could then have an easy to understand Markets section on the Business page, with thumbnails for various charts, and links that would lead to expanded coverage on a "Markets" sub-page. Once this page was ready, we could then put a small version of the daily chart for two or three major market indices (updated hourly during market hours) on a new section of the Main Page, as an enticement to visit the Business and Markets pages.

At a minimum, I'd like to see an up or down arrow next to the current DJIA, NYSE and NASDAQ market values, indicating the recent trend, somewhere on the front page.

Please let me know when you're ready to share the "MarketBot" source, and I will put together some sample graphics to illustrate some of these ideas.

— DV 15:59, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * P.S.: Ilya, I sent you an e-mail with a postscript to these remarks. — DV 16:20, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I've checked in what I'm running now into the Wikinewsbot project. It's called the MarketDataBot for now :)
 * Here's what I think it should do, in the short term (assume ^DJI stands for any of the tracked indexes)
 * Post updated summaries to Template:Market Data/^DJI/Latest using some template, somewhat like it's done on Ilyawiki now but with a separate page for each index
 * This would let people pick and choose which indexes they want to show on other pages.
 * Post the historical data as an XML file into Template:Market Data/^DJI/Data/Historical
 * The bot would retrieve the data from there to generate charts, later
 * Post an updated Template:Market Data which includes all of the updated per-index templates

 * Manually, we would maintain:
 * Market Data would include and thus get all of the necessary indexes
 * Market Data/^DJI would include more information about the index and would later include any charts

 * The problem I generally see with generating charts is that we don't have historical information for these indexes now, and won't have it till we run the bot for a while. I would thus urge us to run this type of a bot for a bit before getting into charting. We also don't have a way to programmatically determining components of an index.

 * Oh. And we should get an account used to do this marked as a bot — anyone know how to do this? This way its changes won't clutter RC. -- IlyaHaykinson 22:09, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Can't we populate the history by just downloading the data and converting it into our own log file format? For example, here is the history for ^DJI ready to use in spreadsheet form.

 * Now that WeatherChecker is updating hourly, why not do the same for "MarketChecker" and generate hourly charts showing the progress of each index from the opening bell?

 * At the close of trading, MarketChecker could generate a daily chart by compositing the day's data with the pre-populated history.

 * We won't have hourly data for previous days, but our multi-day charts can just show closing prices for days previous to when we started. The effect will be that the chart will be coarse for all of days prior to our service becoming operational, but then the chart will appear very fine-grained starting from the day the service has launched.

 * I'll take a look at MarketDataBot, and then determine what would be required to pre-populate our history and begin the MarketChecker charting application.

 * Market reporting without commercials - now there's a concept! I bet a lot of folks are tired of being ambushed by commercials for low-price stock trades every time they lookup market news - so this will be a very attractive service for users who just want to concentrate on the market without distractions.

 * — DV 22:32, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * By the way, why would we need to programmatically determine the components of an index? The value of all major indices is quoted, so it's not as if we would need to calculate the value of an index by referring to its components.

 * However, it would be useful to list individual quotes and charts for the Dow 30 components, as well as other widely-held stocks. — DV 22:47, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and implemented changes roughly how I outlined them earlier, complete with a bit of charting. Check them out at http://www.ilya.us/wiki/index.php?title=Market_Data and http://www.ilya.us/wiki/index.php?title=Market_Data/%5eDJI for one of the indexes, specifically.

Thanks DV for the pointers to the historical data on Yahoo.

There's no intra-day charting (and probably we should test in this mode first, before moving on to more / more-frequent updates (the data on ilyawiki is updated every 6 hours, currently). -- IlyaHaykinson 11:51, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yahoo Finance UK has even more world stock indices than the Yahoo US website.

Limiting to be useful
Although I am for inclusievness, maybe we should have a separate, Major Indices section - since not all stock markets have equal weight on the world economy (or may not be of much interest to an English-speaking audience). I suggest an idex with the following: All Ordinaries (Australia), CAC 40 (France), Dow Jones Industrials (USA), DAX (Germany), FTSE 100 (United Kingdom), Hang Seng (Hong Kong), Nikkei 225 (Japan), Straits Times (Singapore), Tronoto Stock Exchange (Canada). -- Davodd | Talk 18:48, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * It looks to me as if commodity markets are springing into the consciousness of seasoned stock investors(aka gamblers). With various hedging strategies they are no riskier than stocks on margin. Even a market for shorting house prices is being developed.. so it may be useful AND cutting edge to include the majors' (London/CBOT/NYMEX)prices on currencies at least. Paulrevere2005 21:39, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I will launch the bot on Wikinews tonight. There will be one main page, Market Data, which will have all of the indices that the bot will track. Each index is updated via a template like Template:Market Data/^DJI/Latest and the image will be included via another template, so each region, and the homepage, can pick and choose what they display. In addition each index's landing page (Market Data/^DJI as an example) is manually maintained to contain whatever info one wants to have there. I will update here when the bot starts running.

 * As an aside: Yahoo's historical volume information seems to have gotten rather spotty. If someone can find a better source for this data, please let me know. Remember that it needs to be international and somewhat centralized, and computer-readable. If interest is high enough, we can apply for the Wikimedia Foundation to pay for access to this data from a commercial provider, but that's a bit iffy. -- IlyaHaykinson 22:36, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Alright, it's launched. A selection of indices is on the homepage. The full list, maintained every 6 hours, is at Market Data. The templates are modified by the bot: other pages can be human-maintained. IlyaHaykinson 01:27, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Dutch interface links
I had Dutch interface activated in my preferences, but I quickly found the Dutch interface link description don't match their targets. For instance, clicking "In het Nieuws" (In the news) brought me to Commons upload. I'd be more than willing to fix this, but I'm not sure where the Dutch interface system messages are located. Anyone know where that would be? -- Redge (Talk) 12:39, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Categories
Do we have lists of all categories? When editing an article and adding categories, I'm not exactly sure which apply. Perhaps we should create Categories by Location and Categories by Topic, as dates speak for themselves, or merely by Topic. -- Redge (Talk) 12:39, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Is this page what you're looking for? — DV 12:42, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Nope, that's just a jumble. I ment a structured page. -- Redge (Talk) 18:06, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Nope. That's all we have. -- Davodd | Talk 18:16, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Then I suggest we start one. Does Categories by Topic sound right? -- Redge (Talk) 18:44, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I thought about doing that a couple of months ago, but never did it for a number of reasons. First, I think very few users actually use the categories system. There's the main page for recent news and search for older stuff. Second, users were/are adding whatever categories they felt like. Even if one listed them in a certain place, there's no guarantee that authors would use them - people like using the ones they thought of, and quite often different authors carry on using different categories. Not a lot you can do about that. Finally, category pages only list articles in alphabetical order (the closest we came to date order was reverse date order!). That's not a whole lot of use if people want to see what's new in a particular area, and also doesn't scale well as time goes on. Dan100 (Talk) 09:28, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Date Tag
After having a discussion with Amgine about the date tag, I've heard there are no links from an article of a certain date to a news archive. Perhaps we could alter the date tag to provide a link to the archive as Amgine has done in User:Amgine/Sandbox6? -- Redge (Talk) 16:48, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't see why we have to hard-code the year, nor link to those archives separately, when they're already linked to from the day's archive page. What about something more like User:IlyaHaykinson/DateSandbox (and the test at User:IlyaHaykinson/DateSandboxTest)? -- IlyaHaykinson 18:48, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Why do we need templates to do this at all? According to Help:Editing there's a feature of the MediaWiki software that will both automatically turn a wikified date into a hyperlink and display the date according to each individual user's preferences.  Can we not get that feature enabled and have it configured as appropriate for the WikiNews naming conventions?  (Or is the problem that it isn't configurable?)  It would be much easier to just enter wikified dates, as the editing help describes, and have done with it.  Uncle G 20:21, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Bundling articles
It seems to me that, as we have lots of articles coming in that are related, like a string of articles about the current Ukrainian situation, we should find some way of simply linking those articles, bundling them in a way. A few example methods of the top of my head: Problem with the first two is that you don't have direct links in the articles themselves, the problem with the latter two is a surplus of categories and templates. I hope someone has a better idea? -- Redge (Talk) 20:38, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Create a master article with a list of articles relevant to the topic
 * Create some kind of custom category for each topic
 * Create some kind of custom template for each topic

 * All three can, and have, been done here. Categories are almost a given; each of the Ukrainian documents, for example, should have the at the very least. A topic page would be a good idea for someone with a strong interest in the issue, perhaps similar to the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami in concept (but of course it would need to be designed to fit the topic. A combination of both a category and a topic page is also possible, simply building the former at the top of the latter (but realizing the category listing will be at the bottom of the article, and will be alphabetical.)
 * There is an "Issues" template series, though I'm unfamiliar with it. Check any of the recent North Korean articles dealing with nuclear issues for an example. Other "issues" templates have also been defined, and I think they're available via the template listings - Amgine 21:59, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I would like to propose we use the recent spree of Wendy's articles to create a more effective method and use this technique consistently. What I would like to propose is create a sidebar template which can be added to the Wendy's articles. This sidebar should include: When the scandal has taken it's course, we can summarize the events in all the articles we have accumulated in a new article or within the Wendy's main namespace article. Any comments/suggestions/critique? -- Redge (Talk) 11:19, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * A picture
 * A list of Wendy's related articles (either manually or by DPL)
 * A short description of the articles (as to explain the circurcumstances when the bar is placed in a new article)
 * The tag so that all articles with the sidebar are also added to the right category
 * A link to the Wendy's article in the main namespace.

Axe language selection?
I think the language selection page is a little bloated to be the first page people see when they visit Wikinews. It'd be really easy to give users a PHP cookie when they select a language and redirect based on that. Or even better, redirect first-time users to the English page with a link to select a different language.

Another option is to automatically detect the user's browser language or location (almost all major news sites do it) and point the user to the appropriate page. (This is what I'm leaning towards. I could actually code this if you needed me to)

I wouldn't recommend this for Wikipedia, but because of the nature of Wikinews, I feel it's warranted. --Noclip 15:05, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm assuming you're refering to the Wikinews Portal, which is the project's "front door". There is currently a design contest (with prizes) to change the look of that page. Most wikimedia projects have a portal page; for example Wikipedia and Wikisource, though they deal with multiple languages very differently.
 * Most people bookmark the domain of their language (for example, http://en.wikinews.org) rather than the main portal. - Amgine 22:09, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Why direct first-time users to the English page? After all, English speakers are rather in the minority of the world's population... Dan100 (Talk) 09:30, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Wikinews-specific skin (Full details)
(Please read the full details here!)

Noclip 19:06, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

OK Alpha geek challenge... overriding the image click link
Is there a way in wiki markup  to override the click-through link so that it doesn't have to go to the image page? This would be useful on the front page, latest news, and daily templates to allow a person who clicks on the picture to go to the news story - instead of always going to the wikicommons image page. -- Davodd | Talk 11:37, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * No, it's not possible. There is a bug requesting this feature in MediaWiki, and there has been some debate about it on Wikipedia, but right now you can't do it. Dan100 (Talk) 09:37, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Davodd, this is quite possible once it is implemented in the MediaWiki software. However, relying on a "bug" in Bugzilla isn't going to get it done. Perhaps the developers have better things to do with their time than add features just for Wikinews. Or perhaps they are not interested. Wikipedia is the 800-pound gorilla after all.

 * So one of the "third-party" developers here on Wikinews is going to have to make it happen! So let's get started, shall we?

 * I've been asking for this feature for a while, but let's fully justify it in terms that appeal to me as a developer. :) In addition to the reasons you cite, we also need this feature for the weather map thumbnails, to take the browser to the associated Weather page instead of to the image file. OK, now I am motivated!

 * I propose this syntax:

 * [[image:foo.jpg|redirect:[[foo article]]|caption text...]]

 * One of the issues is attribution, because the viewer would not see it on Commons anymore.

 * Two proposals to handle that include:

 * Composite the attribution sideways along the edge of the image.
 * Show the attribution along the top or bottom of the page to which you are redirected.

 * There have been ongoing discussions about how to best move forward on jumping in and helping with features (Ilya and Amgine have bug 1411 in mind), but it's not as straightforward as simply opening the parser source code, making the change, and e-mailing it to Brion. :)

 * I plan to set up a development MediaWiki server soon, partly to simulate features under heavy load conditions. Hopefully if we can prove a given implementation will scale well, the developers will take us more seriously.

 * It's a bit of a chicken and egg problem. It's hard to justify simply running off and writing code to implement the features we want, without risking wasting our time because the devs think we should use a completely different approach. But they won't even take us seriously enough to discuss the proper implementation until we have some code to evaluate.

 * As a result, so far I've stuck with writing client-side apps.

 * Once I have a MediaWiki server set up, I can experiment and find out for myself what the issues really are. Various kind souls (you know who you are) have been very helpful in guiding me towards learning how to set up a MediaWiki server, which has been a big help, as getting started is half the battle.

 * There are those who feel we need to pay money to hire "professionals" to do the job right, because supposedly volunteers have no hope of getting anything done. Looking at Linux, I would dispute that. Who's to say a "professional" wouldn't volunteer his time for free if there was more flexibility to allow participation by new faces?

 * Hopefully it will not become necessary to fork the MediaWiki software, (and Wikinews itself) to add the features to the software that are required to scale up to more users.

 * I will post notes on my user page as this feature progresses.

 * — DV 16:45, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * As I understand it, the developers are very cautious about adding any new features to MediaWiki as the code base is pretty big and quite messy. It's pretty easy for a new feature to hurt performance, which is a big deal for something that powers Wikipedia. The developers are also busy concentrating on performance issues right now to try and keep abreast of the crazy growth Wikipedia is seeing. So I wouldn't hold out too much hope for getting a patch committed. Dan100 (Talk) 00:16, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

DynamicPageList
to check your tests of the below. - Amgine

Folks, thanks to brion, our case 1411 — the DynamicPageList — has been installed on Wikinews. It's in test mode, so it could get yanked out, but this is our chance to test its usefulness / usability. See the source for this section to see what the usage is.

A dynamic page list is basically a listing of links from one or more categories. The easiest example is the following, which lists all pages in Category:March 29, 2005:

 category=March 29, 2005

You could also combine categories (i.e. returning pages in cat1 AND cat2):

 category=March 29, 2005 category=Canada

finally, you can also limit the count:

 category=March 29, 2005 count=2

If you don't want the bullets, do:

 category=March 29, 2005 count=2

Stories are listed from most recently modified to least recently modified. You must specify at least one category, and at most three. The count cannot be above 50.

We might want to implement this on the homepage, via a special Category:Published which we could add to stories that we want to automagically appear on the homepage. Combining with such a category would then require just a cache purge of pages that should list the story.

Thanks to Amgine, wrote this extension's code with me. -- IlyaHaykinson 09:44, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I was once told that this listed articles on the basis of 'most recently edited'. Is that the case? Dan100 (Talk) 00:26, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * It should find the most current timestamps of articles, and sort them in that order. Remember it will only find articles which match *all* the categories. (which is why we're considering creating a Category:Published, for articles which are ready for the main page.) - Amgine 00:42, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * What bothers me is that it would alter our current 'most recent on top' ordering of articles. This would make it quite hard for readers to see when a new story has been added, rather than an older one floating back to the top because it's been edited. However I believe sorting for the date category will stop articles from different days getting jumbled up... right? Dan100 (Talk) 00:48, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, it sort of gives a more accurate view of "most recent on top", when referring to edits as opposed to publishing. Yes, we will need to figure out a process to use the most current date as a separate category. This may get sticky, now that I think about it. - Amgine 00:53, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Any chance it could go by major edits only? Listing by most recent edit could actually be rather good as our articles tend to develop a lot over their first few hours of life and it would serve as a way to highlight to returning readers that changes have been made. However articles going back to the top because of typo fixing etc wouldn't be so great... Dan100 (Talk) 00:57, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * That's an interesting idea. I think the SQL could do that, in the more current version, but it may miss articles which have not been edited in a while. So, when searching for a category which only rarely has new articles (such as obituaries), articles may not be found simply because they are older than the recentchanges table keeps track of. - Amgine 01:06, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Obviously we need to test this out. But can I suggest we try it on a sandbox Main Page rather than the real one? We're getting serious traffic now and I don't think we want to risk annoying readers. However I'm keen to see this 'in action', I suggest categorising articles as 'published' when they get listed on Latest news (along with appropiate other cats) for the next 24hrs or so and seeing how it pans out. Dan100 (Talk) 00:53, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * As a test, I've updated the unused South America regional news page to use the dpl. - Amgine 01:06, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

to check your tests. - Amgine

New real-time online collaboration tool
Have fun kids! Very sweet. Firefox/other Gecko browsers only, mind you. Dan100 (Talk) 00:12, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Tried it. Very slow and not really usable yet (editing the XHTML didn't work at all for me, the text document did, but with many internal server errors), but shows promise.--Eloquence 02:58, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Why we need to use 'Subst:' in templates
After a recent vandalism of the source template (resulting in the vandalism of all articles on the site) I re-visisted w:Wikipedia:Avoid using meta-templates to investigate what could be done about it. One solution would be protecting the templates concerned (source and date). That wouldn't be a big deal as they are effectively static; neither has been altered for months. However it isn't very 'wiki-wayesque'. (I don't think the database load is is big deal because we're so small and naturally the number of articles only grow slowly (not like the 1,000s of new articles seen everyday on Wikipedia.

DV objects to this on the basis that it obscures the use of templates from new editors (I believe all new editors use the Workspace and associated pages so disagree), and that it precludes making site-wide changes to the affected templates (but as I said before, no-one wants to do that and "maybe one day" seems a poor reason). He also mentions copying and pasting existing uses of sources and editing sources being made harder.

Note that I'm only proposing changing the example wiki mark-up in Writing an article and Reporter's tools. Naturally I'm using Subst in my own articles.

Please read the above-linked Wikipedia article and discuss! Dan100 (Talk) 10:17, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * While I appreciate Dan100's attempt to paraphrase what I wrote on this subject up above, he's glossed over some important points. Rather than copy and paste a bunch of text onto this page, I ask that anyone who is interested in this topic please take a moment to read a more detailed discussion over on the Reporter's tools talk page. — DV 10:58, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I've made my case above. Can I invite other editors to consider this issue? Some third-party input would be great. Dan100 (Talk) 12:37, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I am ambivalent at best. Although I can see a drawback to dropping templates if categories ever change or expand. -- Davodd | Talk 01:10, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

How does Index work?
How does the Index work? I am referring to the box in the main paige (the one which refear to Template:FrontPageSubjectMenu. How does the subject nd geographics area work? Thas an article appear here automatically? 82.52.78.173 13:10, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * As of yesterday, yes articles will appear on the relevant region or topic pages automatically if editors use use the right categories (ie those on template:FrontPageSubjectMenu). Dan100 (Talk) 08:25, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Since I am working in the starting up of Italian Wikines (Wikinotizie) could you tell me where can I found information on DynamicPageList? AnyFile 10:13, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Minor bug in the software, or bad wiki markup?
There appears to be a minor bug in the wiki software on this site, or else the wiki markup is formed badly in a way I can't see. I have seen it eat the beginning of several articles.

Most recently, it happened to Afghan coalition forces repel Taliban ambush: 8 killed, 16 captured. When I first came to the article, the first sentence as it was rendered, read "Afghanistan Monday, 8 Taliban rebels were killed and 16 captured when Afghan coalition forces called in U.S. air power for support."

That didn't really make sense. When I looked in the source code, I found:

In a convoy ambush in southeastern Afghanistan Monday, 8 Taliban rebels were killed and 16 captured when Afghan coalition forces called in U.S. air power for support.

Notice that the introductory text, "In a convoy ambush in southeastern" was not showing in the rendered article, though it was there in the source. All the text up to the first wiki link in the article was not being displayed. I fixed it by adding a space after the GNU Map link, like this: "GNU Map] ]]". Then the text started appearing.

Just wanted to report this, thanks. DouglasGreen 23:49, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Wikinews:Water cooler/proposals/Archive/5

Language learning and news
I am currently a silly American who cannot speak or read other languages, but I do know (from my Latin classes in high school) that it is easier to learn languages by having a relevant vocabulary. Here is my idea: Have a language learning section, where the news stories are meant to match up so that one could see it in oh say French, and then have the english translation next to it.

don't do like generalists medias: talk about famine & misery please
to inform, you must quantify informations importance.

so, one of biggest problem in the world is the famine; so please don't do like generalists medias talk about famine & misery everyday(what s happen everyday is not normal; you could have been born in these countries!) do you understand me? do you understand my revolt?

Vev on the french wikipedia

 * I do not understand you. I did understand that famine is a big problem, and that I could have been born in country with widespread famine. I do not understand whether you want us to write more or fewer stories about famine. Try again? Pingswept 14:19, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I say please, quantify & classify informations. so hard to understand? imagine 2 articles: one about famine as each days in somalia & another one about a princess that die in a tunnel. how will you treat these two informations? newspaper in france quasi never talk about famine in ethiopia but talked during more than one month about lady death in alma tunnel

so, how en.wikinews.org will treats informations?

for sure write more & more about famine, inform us. Vev on the french wikipedia

I understand what your trying to say; our coverage is unevenly spread - much on the Western World and little on everday, but important events in the third world such as famine. A discussion took place a whil back about this very topic; it was decided to make a special effort to write about Africa. But that is very hard to do when very few of us have personal links there.

I suggest you write your article at the French Wikinews. Good luck!

(oh and that women was the Prncess of Wales... try not to offend anyone, we do have a few english contributors here) → CGorman (Talk)  18:26, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * hi! "try not to offend anyone" be offend, for what?

if you don't have information about world hunger & others events, contact international humanitarian association like Action Against Hunger, Médecins Sans Frontières, The Hunger Project. Wikinews role is to inform. world hunger is one of the biggest events so talk about. thank.

it s fantastic to see that this topic interest people :s Vev on the french wikipedia

Country of the Week
I've noticed that Wikinews does'nt have any articles on Scotland - a sizeable English speaking nation that I can assure you is anything but uneventful. Scotlands not alone, just look through the country categorization! Anyways I think we should have a country of the week scheme whereby each week we as a group make an effort to write at least on article about that country. This would allow us to internationalise our coverage and indeed probably educate ourselves a little bit too. Im going to create a page (be bold... and all of that) for it now and hopefully it can be up and running for next week.

Then all i've to do is wait for Amgine to object! → CGorman (Talk)  19:16, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't a Scotland article be considered part of the UK? Seriously, I think the idea is good and noble, but participation should be strictly voluntary. Also I would not want you to get disheartened by any lack of participation if you launch it now, when relatively few folks are involved. For instance, we only have about 16 people who regularly create new stories. We also have a bunch of folks who choose to strictly edit - including some who never (or rarely) write an original story. We should not make those folks feel bad since the job they do also is essential in keeping quality of product and user interaction at the highest possible level. Lastly, if we have a writer who only wants to write about what's going on in Toledo, Ohio, then we need to be clear that they are just as welcome here even though they will only ever write U.S. stories. -- Davodd | Talk 21:13, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I like your thinkin' CGorman. To Davodd: of cause participation is strictly voluntary, that is the wikiway. ~The bellman | Smile  22:21, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I'd have to give a stinging rejection here, for form's sake, but I happen to think this is a great project idea. (I even have a story on Scotland idea or two...) Good projects sometimes start slow, and may or may not take off. Sometimes people can participate regularly, and sometimes not. But a really good idea can survive the ups and downs. Great start, CGorman! - Amgine 22:36, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Scotland article be considered part of the UK? Not if the article was Ireland beat Scotland 34-12 in 2006 RBS Rugby clash! Anyways I believe that we should over time begin to categorise items more specifically, a person looking for an old article on Scotland in two years time would have to go through perhaps 2000 or so articles in the UK category. As for participation, I would be happy if the project produced just one article a week in the first few weeks - that would still be 52 additional articles a year on areas that are otherwise completely missed by Wikinews in its day to day work. Anyways I would imagine that the figure will rise as the year progesses. → CGorman (Talk)  20:59, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

A need for Wikinews Local
It would be great if there were a Wikinews Local where you can get local news information by country, state, county, city, or Zip code. It would just go under the "navigation" section of the left hand side of the screen.
 * This is possible, in a way - but not in the Nav bar - since a glbal site like this would have so many choices that it would be unusable. We do have specific country local pages, like United Kingdom. We also can use /subpages. There is no reason why we can't have a Main Page/UK .. a demiportal focuesed on UK news... or even Main Page/Chicago for metropolitan Chicago news. The only thing that is keeping this type of thing from happening is no editor has taken it upon herself to create such a thing and we do not have enough localized news yet to fill up those channels. But, it will happen eventually. So, be bold and start writing -  making Wikinews into the site you want. Roll up your sleves and help out. :-) -- Davodd | Talk  08:43, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I nearly did this over a month ago (CGorman might remember me mentioning it). However, the bottom line is that there's neither the need nor the demand for such a page. I was going to run it as a 'flagship' project, that would hopefully inspire others to do similar. However, I think in its current small size Wikinews needs to concentrate on more global topics right now. Localisation will certainly come, just maybe not yet! Dan100 (Talk) 19:22, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Link in Navigation menu
In the navigation menu (the one behind the wikinews logo, in the left column) there is a link to Article workspace, but no one to The Newsroom. It seems to me that is the last the equivalent of the Comunity Portal and so it should be inked in the navigation menu. AnyFile 10:38, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thinking ahead on 'Latest News'
I am not sure what "News Brief" means, but I do think it fairly summarizes the main reporting thrust of those whose interest, like me, lies in reporting 'World News'. Maybe "World News Briefs" would be the proper terminology and proper news section terminology for breaking down the growing Wikinews story contributions that are now being offered up and presented without categorization.

"World News Briefs" "News by Region" "News by Subject"

These news 'by region' and 'by subject' are already defined on the main page and only manually get updated. If the Wikinews software would simply stop the contributor from saving their news contribution until the 'category' issue was answered, the contributor would be forced to do the work themselves prior to the news story submission.

The issue of many news stories submissions must be resolved before the contributions get lost in an alphabet soup of hodge podge. It was bold and brilliant to put 3 lead stories up. It is working. Can we put order to the chaos that is the 'Latest News' section.

My thinking is a breakdown by header:
 * World News Briefs... <--this is a hyperlink to the main page
 * news story... <-- this is a top story in the section
 * news story... <-- this is a top story in the section

 * News by Region... <-- this is a hyperlink to the main page
 * Antarctica... <-- this has a recent news contribution
 * Mars... <-- still waiting!

 * News by Subject... <-- hyperlink to categories available by reader interest
 * Entertainment
 * Man testifies Jackson molested him in 1990s

-edw 08:38, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Allow me to further refine my point. The proper wikinews instinct is already in place.
 * News by Subject
 * Crime and Law
 * Ireland's smoking ban a success after first year
 * Politics and conflicts
 * Taiwan Nationalists leader visits Beijing
 * Hundreds of thousands protest anti-secession law in Taiwan
 * Science and technology
 * Scientists discover soft tissue in dinosaur bones

The "Latest News" news section will be more difficult to post a contribution to, but part of the process of posting is to encourage the contributor to properly categorize the story during the posting process. -edw 16:29, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Can I just say I'm not a big fan of listing articles on Latest news by category? I do understand where you (Ed) are coming from - the daily list of articles is getting very long (which is good - we're writing lots of stories!) - but the current 'newest on top' format makes it very easy for someone checking back to the site just to quickly see what's been written since they were last here. Certainly that's how I use it when I'm updating the RSS feed - to be honest, if we did divide Latest news into cats, I'd have to abandon the RSS feed because it would be too hard to pick out what's new each time I check. This would be a shame because the RSS feed was 'by popular request' and has many hundreds of subscribers.

 * What you might want to take a look at though is the Index pages linked to from the Main Page in the Regions/Topics box. They recently had Dynamic Page Lists rolled out across most of them so as long as editors stick to using the same categories (the ones in the index box) new stories automatically get listed on those sub-pages. In my opinion it's working quite well, and we need to start thinking about moving that index box higher up on the Main Page again. Dan100 (Talk) 15:16, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Wikinews article on Wikipedia
Just an idea, nothing concrete yet: We could polish the Wikinews article on Wikipedia to Featured Article status to try to get it on the Main Page in the "Today's featured article" section (and also to have a good, neutral document about the project to point people to who haven't tasted the Kool Aid yet). Perhaps this could even be an international effort, with each edition working on the Wikipedia article about Wikinews in their language. Thoughts? Is it worth spending editorial resources on?--Eloquence 06:47, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * We can certainly try! I've edited it a tiny bit before now I think. But we should probably ask Raul first to see if he'd accept an article on another Wikimedia project being on the front page of Wikipedia (could be seen as free self-advertising). Dan100 (Talk) 15:20, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I came to Wikinews to detox from FA Staus addiction! I spent so many hours polishing Ryanair, Economy of the Republic of Ireland and Celtic Tiger (2 of them have been/will shortly be on main page)... but I suppose i've recovered since then and could work on another one! I started working on Sport in Ireland a little while ago; but got fed up! As Dan said, check it with Raul first though. → CGorman (Talk)  17:29, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

For-pay external links icon (subscriptions)
I propose to consistently use an icon for off-site links to subscription based services. To facilitate this I've created an icon the same dimensions as external.png (monobook style), uploaded it to Commons as PD.

Feel free to use it (or to create a template with it that can be used. E.g. example: --Hooloovoo 15:12, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Soft news has gotta fly or Wikinews is gonna die
The hard news market has got a grip so tight on readership that it is virtually impossible for an up-shot like Wikinews to penetrate. I have read reporting of my own compared to sources I was unaware of at the time of my reports, and the content is virtually indistinguishable from the varying unknown sources to me at the time of my writing. So how does that make Wikinews special. Sadly, with the exception of some original reporting, we re-state the news that already exists. We are not contributing to the news, we are simply repeating it like innumerable other news outlets.

In answer to that, to be newsworthy, I am believing we must offer something different. The only thing that can gain greater participation is to welcome, undertake, and facilitate the reporting of the little stories that make up the true fabric of our lives. I remember laughing at a "tooth" story where a little boy reported losing a tooth at an 'approximate' time, noted to the second when it was lost! My laugh was wrong, but my recounting it now means it was memorable news. I remember typing into Wikipedia the search for... well, you just about name it... and it was there.

You just name about anything that can happen, which it would... and it was there at Wikinews is not only an admirable goal, it 'is' the goal. And it is all newsworthy. It means that anything goes. Which is exactly what I am thinking should be done here at Wikinews. The smart, the stupid, the insane and inane. Everybody knows what category they are in. -edw 07:18, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Wikinews Debates
On IRC, we've discussed the various options for having something like op-eds on Wikinews. One idea that I quite liked was to hold debates on topics in the current events. This would allow us to present a range of opinions and arguments on a current topic in a practical and fair manner. We avoid unwanted opinions like those of nazis or racists not by excluding them, but by picking debate topics where they are not relevant, a selection bias which is inherent in the wiki model anyway.

Debates is a proposed stubby framework for this idea. As a first example topic, I have chosen the BitKeeper kernel debacle. The debates could be held on IRC and then transcribed to the wiki. Debaters could either be editors on Wikinews, or prominent experts on the subject -- in any case, we should always have people from the various different points of view.

What are your thoughts on this idea?--Eloquence 19:35, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I was worried when I saw the title, but my fear was unfounded. Seems like a good idea to offer a more interactive service and fairly show both sides of an issue. Good luck. → CGorman (Talk)  20:33, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * To me "Wikinews:Debates" looks like an invite for the public to have a place for random rants. Maybe: "Wikinews:Roundtable" instead? -- Davodd | Talk 01:21, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Writing to Wikinews Portuguese Edition
Carlosar 13:09, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)--This is something that I am testing. You can try, if you want

Put your story HERE.

Remember:
 * The sources section doesn't need to be translated(just copy and paste, as it is).

 * Put a link to the original text. Example: [[en:Your_text_title].

 * The article title doesn't need to be translated.

 * There is no guarantee that your text will be published. The only thing we can do is to try to do our best. This is a test, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't work.

 * Write simple, clear and formal sentences and phrases.

 * Keep sentences short, limiting them to 15-20 words

 * If a sentence contains multiple ideas break them into one sentence per idea

 * Don't use complex words and sentences

 * Some words such as "which, that, who," are often omitted when writing text. Avoid this.

 * Consider the literal meaning of words and try to express this instead

 * Do not use words that have more than one meaning. Example: use "painting" instead of "picture"

 * Avoid words ending in "ing" such as "rowing", which can be a noun or a verb.

 * Don't use ";" and hyphens

 * Use articles in front of listed items, for example: instead of: the judge and jury, use: the judge and the jury

After writting your story in English, translate it to Portuguese.

Some Free Translators:
 * English-Portuguese
 * < If you know another, put it here >.

Print Edition
Hello, After reading the idea for Wikinews weekly, I had the idea to create a daily print edition. This edition could be either a single page summary of the news and a quick bit about the Wikinews project or it could be a full collection of the news stories. Other options are having it be manually created and edited or auto generated. The major downside to a print edition is that there is no way to keep it up to date after it is printed. However I tink a print edition could expose many people who would never hear of Wikinews other wise to it. If enough people are interested I would be glad to work more upon this. I created a mockup of this in pdf form at http://craigweb.net/wikinews.pdf --Cspurrier 19:42, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I like the idea, and I like your mockup. If we were to use this however, I think we ought to create some more wikinews-specific style elements and make it more information-dense. Perhaps we can use this format, at least for a time while Wikinews is young. It might also be suitable for Wikinews-week or week-end (if we ever get around to that). -- Redge (Talk) 20:40, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I love the mockup. I would certainly make copies and pass them around if it was created regularly. I'm a bit skeptical that we can find someone willing to produce a PDF every day, though. That's the advantage of a weekly edition - you only need to produce one a week. It also gives the content a little bit longer to mature. - Borofkin 02:44, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Special Main Page
Look at it.wikinews. They made a special Main Page for he new Pope. --212.171.242.181 17:23, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * That may be an idea for English wikinews in the future, though I would advise not to use it any longer than a day or two though... -- Redge (Talk) 20:40, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Note that Category:Pope Benedict XVI should include all coverage of the new Pope, and that the category page itself can be expanded along the lines of Category:Pope John Paul II (or further, even). Uncle G 10:33, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

WikiTOONS
Might be a good idea to allow people to post cartoons they draw. Could separate into categories, like political, religion and so on.
 * I think this is a great idea, however there are two problems, first is by definition a political cartoon can not be NPOV and the secound lesser problem is finding people to draw them that are willing to allow the cartoon into public domain or GFDL. If these two problems can be worked out I think this would be great for WikiNews --Cspurrier 17:34, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Lead Stories Policy
I think that for an article to become the one of the three lead stories, it first needs to be reviewed by a process such as the one proposed above, also it has to be put there by someone other than a contributing author to it as a contributing author may think because they contributed to it that is near perfect or something, but if someone who didn't work on the article thinks its worthy then I think that's a better measure, obviously we need to determine then what constititutes a contributing author, obviously if you only revert vandalism in an article you won't be and I think also if you fix mistakes like spelling, grammar, etc you are considered a contributing author, i am thinking you need to add at least 1 paragragh to be considered a contributing author, though there are those who contribute a lot to an article without adding a paragraph, so what do you all think?--Ryan524 16:55, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I disagree, I think we need to encourage more people to add stories to the leads rather then discourage. If we can get the lead to be replaced more often it starts to matter less how important the lead is. The other big problem with a policy like this is it prevents breaking stories from going up while they still are breaking news. I think a policy that prevents a contributing author from posting it to leads is a very bad idea. If we do this we run into cases like the plane over DC story where we had so many people add to it you have almost no one who could under this policy add it to the leads. I think people are normally a good judge of the quality and news worthiness of what they write. The other issue I have with this is that having a story as a lead is not a big deal, it just means you covered something newsworthy and others agree with this. The solution is a policy of frowning upon putting your story as a lead not prohibiting it outright.--Cspurrier 17:07, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I disagree with what you said, it not to discourage changing the lead story but rather changing it to a story that shouldn't be lead, in the case of a story several people contribute to an exemption could be in place, or someone could make it the lead before modifying the story themselves or something but I see some of the three lead stories everyday should not be there, or should not be in that position like maybe the lead should only be the third lead, etc, and I don't want to bother switching it cause it could possibly start revert wars very easily, even though there is the 3 revert rule.--Ryan524 17:25, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

If you don't like it, or if it's factually wrong, or it's NPOV, or there are misspelled words, just be a good wiki-citizen, please, and edit the story. The watchphrase here is, "edit; don't control."
 * Wikinews 101; no one here owns a story

Paulrevere2005 20:28, 25 May 2005 (UTC) (copyediting provided by Pingswept 02:56, 26 May 2005 (UTC))


text:
Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous/Archive/

 * May 2005


text:
Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous/Archive/5

Wikinews Design Contest
We're still waiting for submissions in the Wikinews design contest, which will last until April 17. It's about the portal at http://www.wikinews.org/ and the stylesheets used here on the site. If you're not a designer, please contribute to the prizes -- so far, you can win a Wikinews button and a 500 g box of chocolate in each category. Also, please distribute links to this contest around in the blogosphere.--Eloquence 06:24, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Wikinews network crash...sabotage?
Its funny how we have become so brainwashed that we only think words like conspiracy or sabotage or terrorism or subversive apply to the people our government leaders tell us they apply to. Maybe,sometimes these words apply to people who are in high places within our government..ala President Nixon.

All I know is that Hunter Thompson's most recent book was aggressively anti-Bush and anti-war in Iraq and even with his death being the #3 story of interest on the internet today,NOBODY...I MEAN NOBODY.....even mentioned that fact. Nor did anybody mention that the last author that went after the Bush clan so visciously(according to George Sr.),and first reported Jr.'s cocaine habit and cover-up, James Hatfield, also supposedly killed himself. Has everybody forgotten that George Sr. ran the c.i.a.? Isn't it all a bit suspicious?

The wiki-news crash happened within minutes of when my article "Another Author of "anti-bush" Books Dies of Apparent Suicide" first hit the "developing stories"section of the main page.

And by the way, now somebody is trying to send my story for "speedy deletion"..people, I need some help with this paulrevere2005
 * Wikinews is not the place for conspiracy theories. Please stop posting them—you are wasting our time and hurting our credibility. (and please learn the difference between the words "vicious" and "viscous" before posting any more stories, regardless of their conspiracy-content) --Fastfission 14:13, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Watergate was a "comspiracy theory"...is this a conspiracy theory>>>In a Jan. 2003 interview Thompson gave on KDNK in the Roaring Fork Valley in Colorado Thompson railed at the state of America; (source;democracynow.org) "Bush is really the evil one here and it is more than just him. We are the Nazis in this game and I don't like it. I am embarrassed and I am pissed off. I mean to say something. I think a lot of people in this country agree with me -...we'll see what happens to me if I get my head cut off next week -- it is always unknown or bushy-haired strangers who commit suicide right afterwards with no witnesses."
 * Watergate was authored by two journalists willing to put their credibility on the line in case they were wrong, and would have suffered consequences had their research proved faulty (compare with the Dan Rather/Killian incident not too long ago now). You, on the other hand, are just an anonymous Wikinews editor. You have done no research except to combine two hair-brained ideas into one. You have no credibility. You personally suffer no real consequences for posting nonsense. The only credibility you can hurt is that of Wikinews as a whole. As such, please refrain from trying to be an investigative journalist. If you had built up a reputation for good work, and were really bringing some new information to the table, it would be one thing (perhaps such a thing is never really possible on Wikinews). As it is, you're just another anonymous internet person who seems to have a minimal control over the English language and absolutely no concerns over presenting balanced journalism. Woodward and Bernstein you ain't. --Fastfission 23:44, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Yet. Let's try to keep a perspective; very few of us have written professionally - and if we were highly successful as professional journalists we would probably not be writing for Wikinews now. At Wikinews we have the opportunity to learn some of the requirements of journalism, and perhaps learn some of the techniques required for investigative journalism.
 * One thing I have seen is reporters interested in the heavy research required of investigative journalism often begin by doing the work on their own time. Very much the wiki way. But their stories won't get published if they are not verifiable.
 * And like most research - the end story is based on what is found, not what the reporter went out looking to prove. Start with with questions, report the answers. - Amgine 00:01, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)

"Objective journalism is one of the main reasons that American politics has been allowed to be so corrupt for so long."-Hunter Thompson.

It burns my ass that old guys like me and Hunter have to still be the rebels..the hell raisers; while all of you young politically correctos talk about "control" of the english language and "balanced" journalism.You just don't get it. Events and their causes are usually NOT controlled and are usually UNbalanced so the language that reports them is best when IT'S uncontrolled and unbalanced.Why? Because the words should spring to LIFE;and LIFE is wild! You just don't get the essence..the soul of TRUTH! Amgine is right about one thing; the answers are all that count..the real and true answers like "where are the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?" "Where were they?""Why,BEFORE we invaded, when weapons inspector,Scott Ritter,was on TV saying over and over again that there was no wmd,does everyone now pretend that everyone before thought they had'em?" Why?why?why?...Can you even imagine going to print with an anonymous source known as "deep throat"???? GOOD GRIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!paulrevere2005

 * Say, I collect conspiracy theories. Do you mind if I copy this one? -- Redge|(Talk) 15:53, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

NPOV e.g. Afghanistan was categorized by reporter, Condoleezza Rice, as being"on the verge of becoming a narcotics state."
In the "presidential report" on Afghan dope production http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&ncid=693&e=4&u=/ap/20050305/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_drug_report which Connie Rice just delivered to congress, Afghanistan was categorized as being"on the verge of becoming a narcotics state." Now this was called a "report" and was delivered to congress...so to me, Rice was the reporter and the american people(represented by congress)was the audience.

and not OK for media to do the same thing?Isn't a free press supposed to provide a counter balance for government reporting; and not just be a vehicle for government reporting? Somebody said"the pen is mightier than the sword"..do you think they were talking about NPOV reporting? NPOV would be a better way; but if your biggest competitor for providing info to the people(government) is playing dirty(non-NPOV) and the nation's press is not; maybe the public is not getting a fair match-up. Paulrevere2005 05:30, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * 1.;why is it OK for government to constantly use inflammatory and one-sided facts/language when reporting to the citizens(ALA "AXIS OF EVIL")

 * Governments are political. This means they tend to use biased, ideological rhetoric. The opposite, or balance, to this is to use balanced, non-inflamatory rhetoric which relies on facts and logic, presented by non-political entities such as news sources.
 * Do you understand why news should be non-political? It is to avoid being exactly the same as the government. - Amgine 05:51, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Amgine, I'm afraid that too many news outlets don't share that view. I'm on the fence about whether we are being incredibly naive by attempting to maintain this "NPOV" fiction. Everyone has a political agenda, even here on Wikinews, but everyone is always shocked, shocked to learn that political agendas are at work on this site, so I won't bother beating that dead horse into the ground.

 * Paulrevere2005 has a valid point that we are fighting the battle of informing the public with one hand tied behind our back when the government, and other publishers feel free to throw editorial spin on their stories.

 * While we may have the moral high ground by attempting to pursue a facade of "NPOV", the problem is that it waters down our stories to a dry collection of facts, with little or no context to explain what a story means or why it's important.

 * I find myself visiting an eclectic selection of alternative news sites to find analysis that explains what is really happening with various stories. I fear that Wikinews will continue to be completely devoid of this type of insightful commentary until we break free of the rarefied, sterile view we present of the world and instead "tell it like it is".

 * Unfortunately, the only other efficient mechanism available for anyone to pursue "citizen" reporting is blogging, which I find to be a waste of time, because a full-service news site format is the only way to be credible for surfers who dismiss anything that doesn't look like CNN.

 * If I had a spare thousand hours to learn how to install and set up Apache, PHP, and Linux, I wouldn't be writing this, I'd have my own Wikinews.

 * For now, this is the only game in town, so I guess we'll have to make a go of it. — DV 06:32, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Everyone has a political agenda, even here on Wikinews. Um, I don't have one. Sorry. BTW, isn't sticking to facts, presenting them in a npov way, and avoiding opinion "telling it like it is"? Surely adding commentary and spin would be "telling it like how we say it should be told"? Dan100 (Talk) 19:02, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Heh heh. You're kidding, right? Debating on the WC is a political act. Chosing NOT to cover one story and instead to write on another, is a political act. Word choice in writing could be politically motivated. Choice of sources is likely a political decision. ;-) It is important to be aware of one's own prejudices and political motivations in order to compensate as much as possible to counteract self-serving interests (i.e. political motives) to live up to the spirit of NPOV. -- Davodd | Talk 01:29, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

NPOV means, in my opinion, that people of diverse beliefs and interests maintain collective oversight of these pages, thus maintaining vigilance against the biases, both explicit and implicit, of others. It does not mean that the individual author is unable to have a point of view, or should attempt to purge themself of their natural point of view on a subject, political or whatever. The NPOV refers to the process of open dialog that shapes the articles, which is not the domain of one person. It is a dynamic state of people with different backgrounds and experiences using dialog to challenge any aspects of a story, not a static state of a bunch of boring people with no opinions getting together to recite laundry lists of facts.

For example, when Dan Rather tries to do a news story and is surrounded by people of similar "short-sighted zeal", there is no check and balance against whatever his opinion happens to be, and flawed biased articles are able to go ahead without a strong dissenting voice raising other possibilities such as "What if you are wrong?" and "I don't think you're being entirely fair to the other side of this story". But on Wikinews, open constructive criticism and revision is the norm, which leads to stronger articles.

Secondly, I think you somewhat mischaracterize the nature of government, which is an inherently oppositional process where some voices are able to answer the mistakes and excesses of other voices, i.e. the Dems versus the Pubs, because "one hand washes the other". And government has many facets, administrative and fact-finding as well as making populistic rhetorical flourishes like "Axis of Evil" to attempt to define issues to their favor in the public mind. It is not the job of journalists to falsely interject themselves into political dialogue, but to faithfully report on the conditions of whatever subject it happens to treat, letting the subjects of their stories speak for themselves, thus making themselves a trusted public resource that is "above the fray" of political debate and partisanship, a job the MSM would do well to refresh itself on nowadays. DouglasGreen 00:49, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Writing contest
I invite you to participate in the Wikinews writing contest. The rules, in a nutshell: You have to write at least one story a day. You fail to meet the requirement, you drop out. The last man/woman standing wins the contest and the prizes. Please register before March 21, or pledge to contribute prizes.--Eloquence 22:17, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Invite to help edit Apple v. Does
Hi, just an invite to Wikinewsies to help edit Apple v. Does. I'm the only editor so far and it would be good to fill it out more. This case could have a huge bearing on how Wikinews operates so I thought there'd be more interest. —Christiaan 22:45, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Not really since Wikinews is not a blog. -- Davodd | Talk 06:48, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * It's not a matter of whether it's a blog or not. This will likely effect all journalists. Apple won the right to subpoena records today. And as CNET writers put it:

 * ''In the ruling, the judge largely brushed off the question of whether the publishers were journalists and therefore protected from facing contempt charges for refusing to divulge sources under California's shield law. "Defining what is a 'journalist' has become more complicated as the variety of media has expanded," he said. "But even if the movants are journalists, this is not the equivalent of a free pass."

 * ''That aspect of the decision will likely be viewed with dismay by traditional media outlets, which themselves often publish confidential information about corporate plans.

 * -Christiaan 21:39, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

New wiki
A wiki about journalism has started here. You're all invited to join. Maurreen 23:35, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Can someone remove the "Credit Card companies seek government handout to fix their problems" article, its blatently NPOV and nothing more then vandalism.

Logo font
Hello. Anybody know what font used in WIKINEWS logo? Big thanks. Inetd 05:19, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * The typeface is Myriad Pro Semibold with tracking set at 50 units.

 * Here is a nicer version of the logo than the one that is currently installed on the web site:

 * [[Image:WikinewsLogoPolarGlobe17T.png]]

 * It uses light and shadow for better contrast with the background and also uses simpler lines so it isn't quite so busy. It also looks better when it's small. (These changes also make the logo easier to use with video.)

 * Please let me know if you would like me to send you a copy of the original file used to generate the image by e-mail.

 * Regards,

 * — DV 07:15, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, David! If you can, send please original file to didaio (at) gmail.com. Inetd 13:34, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I sent it to you today. Please let me know if it doesn't arrive intact.

 * Good luck with uk.wikinews!

 * Please let me know if there is anything else I can do to help, such as helping to set up the weather map. — DV 09:03, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Would we consider changing the font? Myriad was designed solely for reading body type on screen, not for logos. What about a nice Avenir Heavy, or Berthold Akidenz Grotesk? -- user:zanimum

 * Changing the logo is a bit of a dead horse. The last go-around seemed to bring out the worst in people, despite all efforts to find the least offensive, watered-down design possible.

 * You are welcome to head on over to the Logo variants design page and try your hand at it, but I kind of lost my taste for attempting any more logo designs for now.

 * Please let me know if you'd like me to e-mail the original artwork to you so you can play around with new ideas.

 * Of course, you don't have to start from the existing design - you are welcome to start from scratch and attempt to restart the whole process, but that's one parade I think I will watch from a distance. :) — DV 10:48, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Californians interested in tech?
I just received a media press release for E3 in LA. The conference runs May 17 to May 19, the exhibit is from May 18 to May 20. Contact me if you're willing to go, to either take PD/GNU/Creative Commons photos for Wikicommons, and/or write articles for Wikinews. Email me at nicholasmoreau@gmail.com --  user:zanimum

Facts
Just wondering... how is the accuracy of these articles checked? Do we assume that the sources are always correct? Pickle 17:28, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * That's the way mainstream newspapers and television do it. So, basically, yes. -- Davodd | Talk 18:51, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I always try to find as many sources as I can, and then pick about three to five of the ones that don't appear to be duplicates of one another to use in the Sources section of the story.

 * One news outlet might be wrong, but hopefully if you have a handful of sources to work from, they aren't all wrong.

 * One thing to watch out for is to make sure you aren't depending on a selection of small-town newspapers that are all just reprinting the same AP or Reuters story. This is usually easy to spot by examining the credits. — DV 05:21, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Crossword dead links on front page
Anyone have any word on the status of the Crossword puzzle? We have red (deadend) links on the Main Page since no new puzzles have been made for the past few days. -- Davodd | Talk 19:48, 22 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Wackynews
Would anyone mind if we changed wackynews to something like Offbeat? I just dont think the name wackynews seems very professional (no offence to whoever came up with it). The bellman 08:59, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps you should discuss this here. -- Redge (Talk) 09:07, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Category The Vatican
The Vatican should not be a subcategory of Italy. It is an indipendent state. AnyFile 10:25, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Then make one. Be bold. -- Davodd | Talk 07:31, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Piped links
Just as a little note of interest, I've noticed a lot of people doing this— Pope John Paul II —to get a link to another project without the prefix being visible. The same thing can be accomplished by just putting the pipe character, as in Pope John Paul II ; this is clearer for other editors, and there's less typing involved. At present, this only works for links with only one prefix (e.g., Pope John Paul II will display as ). The More You Know... --Slowking Man 06:06, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * If you type blah it will get auto-expanded at save-time to blah, so the next time someone edits the page it'll seem like the previous editor typed out the entire blah . -- IlyaHaykinson 08:29, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Ah, so that's why I keep seeing it. Still, if anyone didn't know about it before, they do now. ;) --Slowking Man 23:28, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

New column
After I abandoned it for a while in February, I've gotten back to working on my Science and Technology column. I'd like to hear what you all think about it. Cap'n Refsmmat 15:32, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I think they should follow WN:SG and WN:CG for style and content. -- Davodd | Talk 01:32, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Which parts of those does it not follow? The only one I could see was the sources, and that's easily fixed. Also bylines, but I like it the way it's done now in that area. Cap'n Refsmmat 20:11, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Format of articles
I was considering that to read a full page, it is easier to read when the lines of text are not too long so that our eyes don't miss the next line when we read and mistakenly read the line after instead. To prevent that, it would be ideal for the articles to be made in multicolumns so that it can be read faster for my opinion. 132.204.227.175 19:29, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree regarding the line length being too long. I disagree regarding multiple columns. I recall being taught in journalism school that readibility testing shows that we read best when there is about 2/3 of the page width text, with a large whitespace gap to one side. Have never found good online sources to confirm this, but I'm sure they're out there, if anyone would like to research this.

 * With web sites, I think the screen width is too narrow to allow multiple columns. We have to allow for the fact that some viewers have low resolution monitors, even if it is a minority. Plus, multiple columns are significantly harder to lay out in HTML than single column, because there are no build in text flow commands, and different browsers may fill the columns differently, using different fonts. - Simeon 14:57, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"News Sites Solicit Articles"
An article we all should read on The Wall Street Journal --OsvaldoGago 20:21, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Jiang Zemin dead?
There's a requested article up suggesting that the former leader of China is dead. Can anyone confirm this? Isomorphic 15:17, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC) = Miscellaneous =

NPOV: Hundreds of thousands to lose 'fresh start' as Bush signs bankruptcy bill
This is an embarassement to wiki-news, to have such a flagrantly bias news-story on the front header of the main page. I have told people this is a great site to find non-bias news. If this simply becomes a haven for left-wing activists to rant then the entire mission of Wiki-news has failed.

Responding to whoever you are; It's not biased to tell the truth.Its biased to cover it up. Paulrevere2005 22:41, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * "It is better to light a candle than to curse the darkness." If there is an article you don't like, you may want to consider fixing it. DouglasGreen 00:20, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Wikimedia Projects by Size of Registered User Base:
The highest-ranking wiki in each category is marked in gold, the second highest in silver and the third highest in bronze.

Wikinews Original Reporting contest of May 2005
I invite everyone to join the Original Reporting contest of May 2005. Starting on May 1 and running for a month, this contest for real prizes is designed to get Wikinewsies to submit "original reporting" articles containing quotes from people connected to the news. Read about it now! -- IlyaHaykinson 09:31, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Great idea! → CGorman (Talk)  20:22, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Interwikies are almost gone
What is happening with wikinews, I used to come here and use the interwikies to learn about subjects i wasn't too familiar with but now people seem to abandon the idea of interwikiying their articles so i have to make my own research to find info on the news in question. Could somebody be in charge of that (that is a main point other news system don't have). 24.201.116.26 17:16, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Wikinews link to www.wikinews.org gives 404 error
I get a 404 error in Firefox 1.0.3 running on Windows XP whenever I visit http://www.wikinews.org/. However:
 * 1) It works OK when I go to www.wikinews.org in Internet Explorer 6.01.
 * 2) It works OK when I go to en.wikinews.org in Firefox 1.0.3.

Thought I would report this. It seemed to start happening within the past couple of days or so. Others may be having a similar experience? DouglasGreen 00:24, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Works fine for me (using fx 1.0.3 on xp home) Bawolff 23:20, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Conflict following an edit war on President Bush marks end of WWII; reports circulate his Grandfather helped Hitler
Everybody,

I have witnessed a rather unpleasent conflict involving User:Amgine, User:Simeon and in part User:Lyellin. Amgine accused Simeon of violating 3RR, and blocked him. In response, Simeon unblocked himself and further down the road blocked Amgine. The "blocking war" continued.

To get a good idea of what is happening, please visit:
 * President Bush marks end of WWII; reports circulate his Grandfather helped Hitler (see history)
 * Talk:President Bush marks end of WWII; reports circulate his Grandfather helped Hitler (talk page of this article)
 * Special:Log/block
 * A log of IRC chat between parties involved (some other users were involved, including myself, as Pechorin) at

To the best of my understanding, both parties have agreed to accept their blocks and stop the "block war" as long as the discussion starts here in a timely manner. So I invite everybody to give their opinion and let's try to resolve this issue. --Dcabrilo 06:28, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Also, I was asked to clarify that neither Amgine or Simeon may get involved until their blocks expire. --Dcabrilo 06:32, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

 * It's bullshit to push a story that hard. -Edbrown05 06:38, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Simeon broke the Three revert rule so his 24hr block stands. Amgine does not appear to have broken any rules so I have unblocked him. I have listed the article on Deletion requests for the reasons given there. Dan100 (Talk) 07:23, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

 * This is what happened, as I see it. Simeon was making good edits to the article, adding in wikilinks in the like. at the same time, he removed ethe tag, which I replaced, because I felt there was a dispute going on, and that it had not been solved yet. Since we've been working under the assumption "try to resolve tags before removing them", I put that back on, and then a bit later explained why on the talk page. Simeon basically said "you're wrong", and removed the tag, so Amgine put it back, and then explained why he thought it should be there. IT was then again removed, and right around there was the third time, so AMgine put in the block for 3RR. I'm not a big fan of blockimg Simeon, but we were trying to come to consensus, and currently it's not there. *shrugs*. Lyellin 13:57, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I think after Simeon removed the flag the first time he explained why and then it was put back within 1 minute with no discussion? Paulrevere2005 22:31, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I think that Simeon and Amgine need to both be held responsible for engaging in a silly block war. As sysops on this project, they need to be able to take the high road on issues and stop being in conflict, even if they really really disagree with a particular issue. I recommend deleting the article in question since it's definitely not news right now — I would rather see us lose a story than two editors. I would then recommend that when the blocks expire, Amgine and Simeon agree to disagree, publicly, and retain their sysop rights with the understanding that this can't happen again. -- IlyaHaykinson 14:22, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

 * In response to Paul above, I put it back. I did so because I felt there was still a disupte going on, including both myself and Amgine, and at the time others, which had not been solved. It did not seem appropiate to remove the tag without resolving the dispute. Lyellin 22:41, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Now I'm more confused; this is the sequence I mean..in the one at 05:28 the tag went back;with no explanation that I can see.

(cur) (last) 05:28, 9 May 2005 Amgine m (Reverted edit of Simeon, changed back to last version by Paulrevere2005) (cur) (last) 05:27, 9 May 2005 Simeon (remove POV dispute flag, this is all factual information)

Paulrevere2005 00:18, 12 May 2005 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Wal-Mart closes down unionized store

The sources section really really needs to be cleaned up. Especially the first link that seems to lead to some religious money request or whatever. MikeCapone 20:11, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * It at the bottom of that page, it comes from VOA. --Cspurrier 20:17, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Dead source link
I suspect a lot of this article might come from somewhere near this link, which itself is dead. Maybe someone else can make it work. Dan100 (Talk) 22:19, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Ne'er mind, I found it. Dan100 (Talk) 22:21, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

How does this story end?
What do the unions expect to happen if they win? That the store will reopen as a non-profit charity?

The entire model of "Wal-Mart" does not permit fair compensation of its employees if the store is to be profitable. A business cannot be forced to operate at a loss.

Perhaps the onus is on consumers not to patronize non-union stores in the first place? As long as consumers mindlessly seek the lowest price regardless of the consequences, any boycott movement against Wal-Mart will not gain the support it needs to make this business model unprofitable wherever it springs up. — DV 22:50, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * DV is right on. Chavez's farm workers' union had a huge success with their boycott of California grapes in the 60's..then there was the fur boycott in the 80's..nothing since, although there are some "made in America" type brand associations trying to get started. Nowadays, with introverted space-cadets (prozac cadets?) in control of the purses, Wal-mart wins..point;game;match..imo...in the USA...BUT...the rest of the world is another story...Walmart gave up and pulled out of Germany; last year I think..and Canada???...the most under rated country in the world..5 times the dollar value of resources per citizen as the next richest country....and Canadians are unpredictable...biggest casualty sacrifice per 1,000 in WW2; yes to Korean war..no to Nam..yes to Afghanistan..no to Iraq..no to missle defence porkbarrel..who knows with Canada..the people actually think and there's no brainwashing going on at all. Paulrevere2005 23:26, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)


text:
Violent rioting, deaths follow disputed election in Togo

April 30, 2005

Immediately after the provisional election returns in the West African nation of Togo were given last Tuesday, violence and chaos erupted with security forces beating and shooting protesters, who object to the fairness of the Togolese elections and allege widespread fraud. Some of the opposition leaders who were targeted are said to have been unarmed or even found by security forces in their homes, and police have fought in fiery pitched battles against rioters for days, employing tear gas behind burning barricades. At least 40 Togolese citizens have been killed.

The elections were won by Faure Gnassingbé, son of the previous leader Gnassingbé Eyadéma, who held power in Togo for about 38 years before his death on February 5, 2005. The army appointed his son as his successor and the country's leader, but regional opposition forced him to step down and seek free elections.

The preliminary count indicates that 60% of the vote went to Faure Gnassingbé, a 38-year-old Master of Business Administration (MBA) from Yale University and son of the former President. An additional 38% went to his chief opponent, 74-year-old Emmanual Bob-Akitani, who was endorsed by a six-party coalition and opposition leader Harry Olympio. Further violence is expected as the official vote tally and announcement of results comes within a few days.

"Just after the [preliminary] results were announced the red berets [commandos] went out into the streets and started shooting at the boys," said Marthe, who fled to a U.N. refugee camp in Benin to escape the fighting. "They only shot at the boys. They ransacked shops and blamed the youths, who were unarmed," she continued in her Reuters interview. More than 11,500 Togolese have fled from their country and taken up temporary residence in Benin and Ghana since the elections, according to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR).

The opposition party claims that 100 people have been killed in the ongoing violence that passed through Lome and other villages. Togo's Human Rights League has verified the deaths of at least 40, and the wounding of many others.

"Violence is not the way to deal with democracy," said Mohammed Ibn Chambas, executive secretary of the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS). "We think the way forward is for Togolese to use dialogue, and to sit down and negotiate." ECOWAS has certified the elections as free from interference, a decision that some countries such as France have accepted, but the United States continues to question the fairness of the outcome.

Germany protested after its cultural center, the Goethe Institute, was burned down in Lomé. The Togolese government has accused Germany of aiding the opposition, and former interior minister Francois Boko (who was fired earlier for trying to postpone the election due to fears of violence) has sought refuge in the German embassy. Togo is a former German colony, but the official language of the country is French, since it was passed to Britain and France in 1918 and only gained its independence in 1960.

Gnassingbé has offered to form a new unity government, incorporating voices from the opposition, but their leaders turned down the offer, claiming that the election was fraudulent and stolen.

"If they refuse tomorrow, I hope that they will decide to join us the next day," said Gnassingbé to France's Le Monde in their Friday edition. "Reconciliation is a long process. You can't jump overnight from a regime that lasted for 38 years to a new one," he continued.


text:
New drug from lizard's saliva

April 30, 2005

A chemical part of the saliva of a poisonous lizard, the Gila monster, has become an integral partner in the control of Type 2 diabetes. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has approved its use for people who have not achieved adequate control of their diabetes with oral medications.

Byetta, or exenatide, is produced by Amylin Pharmaceuticals. It is injected before eating morning and evening meals as part of a combination treatment with oral drugs. The FDA said it could be approved as a stand-alone treatment if the drug companies can support such use with data.

Eli Lilly & Co. was the development partner in creation of the drug.

"With Byetta's demonstrated effects on blood sugar and its safety profile, physicians and patients now have a new approach to fight the growing diabetes epidemic," said Sidney Taurel, CEO of Lilly.

title: New drug from lizard's saliva


text:
Food with cancer-causing dye recalled in Britain

April 30, 2005

The British Food Standards Agency (FSA) has announced a recall of foods containing banned dyes which increase the risk of cancer. The food products were sold at the Tesco, Waitrose, and Somerfield supermarkets.

A Bristol company called "Barts Spices" found the illegal Para Red substance in their Barts Ground Paprika, which was sold in 48g and 46g jars with a "Co-op" label. The batch codes on the affected products are 5032 and 5089 (expiration Dec 2007), and 5075 (expiration February 2007).

Tesco also found that their 130g package of BBQ rice cakes (expiration November and December 2005) contained both Para Red and Sudan I.

"It would be very prudent to assume that it could be a genotoxic carcinogen," FSA scientific advisers told reporters.

"As a company committed to supplying only the very finest quality food ingredients, we took the immediate decision to withdraw our ground paprika spice from all outlets selling the product and advertised a product recall in the national press," a Barts Spices spokesman said in a statement.

Sudan I is only authorized for industrial use to colorize petroleum products, such as shoe polish. Para Red and Sudan I are banned under the British Colours in Food Regulations of 1995.

Britain last went through a major food recall in February, when Worcester Sauce was found to contain chili powder dyed with Sudan 1.


text:
Talk:EU accession treaty ratified by Romanian government

I thought Romainia was run from the Palace of the Parliament? Thanx 68.39.174.150 22:26, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * The Palace of the Parliament only houses, as its name suggests, the Romanian Parliament. The Government and the Presidency are in separate areas. The government has its headquarters in Victoria Palace (Palatul Victoriei), the one whose photo is in this article. The presidency resides at Cotroceni Palace (we don't have a photo of that, unfortunately). So, Romania is run from Victoria Palace, the Palace of the Parliament remains a very important building since the Parliament, who represent the people, is very important, but the actual government - so, the Prime Minister and his cabinet - meet at Victoria Palace. Ronline 00:43, 1 May 2005 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Food with cancer-causing dye recalled in Britain

Just noticed that one of the sources is The Sun. That made me :) Dan100 (Talk) 22:29, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Seriously, are there any issues with the credibility of The Sun that prevent using them as a source?

 * I just noticed the "Page3" link on their banner. Do UK residents think The Sun is a porno site?

 * I hope everyone else is smiling at the use of The Sun as a source as well, because they had a good quote from the Bart Spices spokesman. However, after clicking around on The Sun web site, I will understand if some of the more conservative contributors here on Wikinews might be taken aback by using them as a source. — DV 23:26, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * In general, they're considered about on par with using the National Enquirer, as I recall. - Amgine/talk 04:46, 1 May 2005 (UTC)


text:
BBC News website expands RSS license terms to allow commercial use

May 1, 2005

The BBC announced today that it plans to expand the license terms on its numerous RSS feeds to allow other websites to reuse its content. The license currently proscribes that the feeds are only for "personal use," according to BBC editor Peter Clifton. According to Clifton's statement, "in May we'll be happy for outside websites to dip in and take our headlines." The announcement did not specify whether the new license would allow the use of entire articles, or just the headlines.

The BBC currently has 18 feeds, ranging in topic from Business and Technology to Health and Entertainment. They also provide feeds with regional news, focusing on, for example, Scotland or Northern Ireland. In its current setup, the BBC provides a headline plus a lead sentence in its feeds.

RSS ("Really Simple Syndication") is a protocol that allows users to aggregate articles from many sources in a program called a "news reader" or "aggregator." A news reader works by reading simple files from user-targeted websites and parsing them into a presentable format.


text:
Talk:BBC News website expands RSS license terms to allow commercial use

This is a good development for small commercial news sites.

However, the report seems to indicate that BBC is only allowing the re-use of their headlines, not text from the body of the story.

Does anyone else have another interpretation of this announcement? — DV 23:08, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

We have an encyclopedia for that
What's good for the goose is good for the gander:

"RSS, which stands for Really Simple Syndication, is a protocol that allows users to aggregate articles from many sources in a program called a 'news reader' or 'aggregator.' A news reader works by reading simple files from user-targeted websites and parsing them into a presentable format."

This is factually true, but it is. Please confine news articles to reporting news. We have a great resource in Wikipedia that allows our stories to focus like a laser on the news aspect of our stories. Leaving all historical and non-news information to Wikipedia will make our stories more concise. — DV 03:45, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Of course relevant background info/context can be included. Dan100 (Talk) 17:15, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
 * This background material is not only relevant, it is essential. RSS is rather new technology and most of our readers will probably not have heard of it. DouglasGreen 21:42, 1 May 2005 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Pay-by-Plastic pumps up gas prices in U.S.

Gas stations have largely dismantled the infrastructure by which human beings were involved in the process of collecting cash (or running carbon paper over credit cards). This certainly cost *more* than the transaction fees under discussion here, even at minimum wage.

The rising use of credit cards, and automation, have benefited the consumer significantly. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

 * This article suggests there is a price to be paid for using plastic. The implicit criticism is that banks reap twice the fee for processing dollar transaction amounts that have doubled under rising prices. -Edbrown05 14:20, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

My $.02 worth
The technology improvements made by retailers (eliminating carbon forms) have indeed improved the cost structures, unfortunately, the retailer never received the cost benefit. Current average interchange rates for the major oil companies is about 1.75% ($.04 a gal @ 2.299), almost a half cent increase from the rate in 1998. That's just the interchange for the lowest fee transaction.

If you're like me and use Pay-at-pump, Visa and Mastercard add 10+ points and an additional transaction fee. It is supposed to cover the higher percentage of fraud and ticket retrievals. All fraudulant charges are sent back to the retailer to eat.

Add anywhere from $.03 - .06 transaction fee and now a 15 gallon fuel sale, done pay-at-pump cost that retailer about $.69, or 4.6 cents a gallon.

It is a cost of doing business. They could have kept there own Oil company credit accounts, but that was too expensive. We, the consumers, wanted the convenience of using one card everywhere. It made our wallets thinner, both physically and figuratively.

The discount for cash is already here. Look at Walmart, buy their prepaid car and save.


text:
Two university students shot, killed in Cameroon strikes

April 30, 2005

At least two university students have been shot and killed, and a third may have been mortally wounded after clashing with police at the University of Buea in the west-central African nation of Cameroon. The deaths come after sporadic confrontation between students and police during strikes that began last Wednesday, following by one week mostly peaceful strikes which began April 20 at another Cameroon university, Yaoundé One. A delegation of five students is said to have traveled from Yaoundé One to UB, instigating the strike at the second university.

The strikes at UB turned violent after the University Registrar, Herbert Nganjo Endeley, failed to calm the students. Police tried to disperse the students with tear gas, but were pelted by stones in retaliation. Chaos ensued, with the police also throwing stones, bludgeoning and separating the students, turning water cannons on them, raiding their residence hostels, and performing numerous arrests. The students responded by protesting, erecting barricades and destroying school property and vehicles. Several students and police were hospitalized during days of fighting.

The students were shot on Thursday in different incidents between 14:30 and 15:00 local time in Molyko — both were reported to be killed instantly. One student, Embwam Aloysius, a level 400 student of Environmental Science, received a bullet in the head, while the other student, Gilbert Nforlem, a masters degree Geology student, was shot in the chest. Local news reports indicate a female student may also have been killed, and claim that the students were shot by police. On Friday, speaking on state-run radio, Higher Education Minister Jacques Fame Ndongo called for an end to violence and said that "[President Paul Biya] has requested a judicial enquiry to establish the exact cause of the deaths."

UB, located in the town of Buea, South Province, is Cameroon's only English-speaking university in a nation where French, English, and African languages are spoken. Yaoundé One is Cameroon's largest university, located in the capital city of Yaoundé, which is shown in the above map. There are four other state-run universities in Cameroon.

Students at both universities are striking for better educational conditions. The students at UB are demanding an end to the annual school fees of 50,000 CFA Francs (US$99), reduction of school bureaucracy, and other amenities. According to the Post newspaper in Cameroon, "They want all courses offered during the re-sit, good toilets, more lecture halls, microphones in amphi-theatres; that amphi 750 should be changed to 650 because it lacks 100 seats. They also want to be offered good food at the University restaurant among others."

Some commentators in the Post's online forum expressed indignation at the deaths of the students and what they perceive as a lack of leadership by school officials, while others expressed sorrow at the loss of student lives and questioned whether the advantages they are bargaining for are really worth the price they have paid.