text:
Wikinews talk:Credential verification

Phone number
What is “+1-310-356-6217”. Are you then accredited by a voicemail number? --Blaite 12:51, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * This is the nmber to call to verify the credential's of a Wikinews user on this page. --Cspurrier 15:44, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

ID Numbers
Amgine, the ID numbers already appear on those member's Press Cards. They cannot be changed. NGerda 21:31, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

The ID numbers which should appear on Press Cards are as follows:

 * 1) Stafford, Brandon (Pingswept)
 * 2) Franklin, Alan J (Alan_J_Franklin - voluntary request to de-accredit)
 * 3) Gerda, Nicholas (NGerda)
 * 4) Spurrier, Craig (Cspurrier)
 * 5) Novak, Jake (MrMiscellanious)
 * 6) Koepke, Ross (RossKoepke)

ID numbers should not be re-used, to avoid possible identifying issues. - Amgine / talk 20:01, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Revised, they are now...

 * 1) Stafford, Brandon (Pingswept)
 * 2) Franklin, Alan J (Alan_J_Franklin - voluntary request to de-accredit)
 * 3) Gerda, Nicholas (NGerda)
 * 4) Spurrier, Craig (Cspurrier)
 * 5) Novak, Jake (MrMiscellanious)
 * 6) Koepke, Ross (RossKoepke)
 * 7) Moreau, Nicholas (Zanimum)

Credential links
I think it would be handy to include links to the accreditation policy and those pending accreditation, just for reference. --Mrmiscellanious 16:46, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Great idea. -- NGerda 16:47, July 23, 2005 (UTC)

Changes to listing
Could my email just be transfered from nicholasmoreau((@))gmail.com to just plain nicholasmoreau@gmail.com. My spam filter's good, so it doesn't really matter if any more bots pick it up. Also, please add in that this is also my Google Talk account. Thx! -- user:zanimum
 * Done. --Chiacomo (talk) 21:19, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

can an admin update http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/WN:CV#Stock.2C_Terin_.28Wikinews_user_Terinjokes.29 with the stuff from http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/User:Terinjokes/ID_card

Thanks! terinjokes User Page / Talk 23:10, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Page protection
Could someone please change the Location listing for Brown, Ed so that it correctly reads: Prince George, Virginia, USA.

Also, if there is such a thing as a Press Pass, where does an accredited reporter find it? -Edbrown05 07:31, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

 * You find it on your user page or an admin emails it to you. (I think). — F e  llow  Wiki  News   (W)   (sign here!)  14:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

 * User:Messedrocker has a blank template, I've sent him a recent ID photo of myself and he sent me a beautiful press card... so you should be bothering him [[Image:Smiley.png|15px]].--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 18:31, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Accreditation
Is it possible to become accredited without having to make one's full name available on the Internet? Dev920 17:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes...but it is not a good idea. You get a press badge if you get voted in as accredited and it MUST have your full name printed on it as far as I know. It is possible, but I personally would not agree to an annymous user with credentials. DragonFire1024 17:58, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

 * As far as I'm concerned, accreditation cannot be given without revealing some details about your identity. That includes full name.  You should end up with a press pass that has the same name on it as your driver's license.  An accredited reporter using a false name would, in my opinion, be worse than what EssJay did. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:25, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * In some states it will also be considered fraud and that's a felony here. DragonFire1024 19:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That may be the case in many other places too, but what should matter more than sticking to the law is getting the respect of your peers on the wiki. Being fairly honest about who you are is part of that.  No? --Brian McNeil / talk 19:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, I was thinking like the Arbitration Committee on Wikipedia, you can give your real name and details to whoever offline, but your name stays off the Internet. And I thought on WIkimedia you were judged by what you do, not who you are? Dev920 08:43, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * What you are is what you do. Either you stand by it, or you want to be some pseudonym that is accountable to what? Who is Dev920? HEY NOOOO BODY, how's that feel? Are you somebody? -Edbrown05 09:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Dev920 is a nobody. -Edbrown05 09:14, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Accreditation, unlike arbitration, is primarily used off-wiki - in the real world where screen-names are not common, to say the least. also, accredited reporters have to bear a certain responsibility for what they reports, and insisting on real names is one way of bringing that responsibiity home to those who seek accreditation. note that it is possible to do original reporting even without accreditation. and u can always take the help of an accredited member when you need it. –Doldrums(talk) 10:16, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Doldrums' remark is the most helpful on this (EdBrown05 takes some getting used to, but he doesn't mean to be nasty - he's just making a point a little cruelly). The point is that Accreditation is indeed for use in the real world.  We don't have a requirement for real names for our Arbitration committee, the activity of that takes place entirely online and the candidates have been elected based on their online contributions.  However, accreditation is - as stated - for use in the real world.  It needs your real name as you can't turn up for an event and expect admission as Dev920.  I'd go as far as saying that accredited reporters should all have an email address that identifies their real name posted on their talk page.  I can be contacted on a variety of email addresses, and I don't have any which use a pseudonym associated with here. --Brian McNeil / talk 12:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

 * This is somewhat irrelevant anyway, as everything I have seen on Wikinews so far had already turned me right off. You treat everyone who comes over from other projects with extreme hostility, are arrogant and aloof about Wikinews, despite the fact that no-one, including most Wikimedia projects, pays attention to you, and tolerate incivility in your administrators (Ed would have been reprimanded on Wikipedia for his nastiness, not have it dismissed as "Oh, that Ed, what is he like?" That, more than anything, tells me what Wikinews is like). Your project will fail miserably until you get your act together and start being civil to people who join you. I wasn't planning on doing much here, anyway, but your attitude towards people like DavidShankbone only hurts your cause and makes you look stupid in the eyes of the people who do bother to visit here. 82.34.242.138 21:27, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * When members from other projects come over, we treat them as nicely as we can, although we already have a lot of accredited reporters. Wikinewsies requesting accredidation will need to write a story about that, and we don't want to have to delete it for not following policy. For example, if Wikinews would give accredidation to John13 from Wikipedia, who feels that no original research should be included on Wikinews, it might be pointless to give him accredidation, since accredidation is original research.  Thunderhead  ►  21:37, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think wikimedians fully appreciate that wikinewsies work toward the goal of original news gathering. Acadamia stuff, which forms most of wikimedia content, is not what news is about. The challenge is to guard against hoax reports, and yet remain receptive. If that makes wikinews rude, then pardon yourself when your introduction to a news source is prefaced with, "I'm 82.34.242.138." -76.104.104.187 07:16, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * "You treat everyone who comes over from other projects with extreme hostility" ? I was welcomed nicely and decided to stay, eventually spending most of my time here, instead of Wikipedia, which I find less friendly.--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 18:49, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm with Stevenfruitsmaak on this one, we are welcoming when you come in by the front door and say "Hey! I wanna write news". In those circumstances the red carpet will be laid out for you and people will do their best to help see your contributions published.  If you say "Hey! I want credentials, but can't adequately say how I'll contribute to your wiki"  then you should expect a response like Ed's.  --Brian McNeil / talk 20:56, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Totally agree with "Steven" and Brianmc. I came here as an imigrant from Wikipedia and I decided to stay here because everyone was very nice. I don't even make contributations on Wikipedia anymore as they are less friendly. 82.34.242.138, who probably is DavidShankbone, you don't feel welcome here because you exept the credentials right away. Editors that are humble and try their best to edit here will reciveve the credentials a lot faster. — F e  llow  Wiki  News   (W)   (sign here!)  14:24, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Inactive accredited reporters
First and foremost, can someone help clean up the list of active/inactive accredited reporters? If any of the people who are accredited and inactive have the AR template on their user or talk page I also think that should be removed.

Moving on from that to emails, as anyone who has emailed scoop recently will have discovered there are several people who aren't checking their Wikinewsie emails. For the last couple of emails I've sent to the list I got bounces from the following addresses:
 * frankie.roberto
 * kat.walsh
 * sean.heron
 * robert.lehrer

All these are @wikinewsie.org

How do people feel this should be dealt with? And, perhaps more importantly, how should we deal with those who are long-term inactive? Should we perhaps amend the accreditation policy to automatically de-accredit after a prolonged period of inactivity? --Brian McNeil / talk 10:34, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with de-accreditation. this is one place where inactivity leading to automatic loss of rights makes sense imho. However there's also some other issues. For example some of these people are active elsewhere in Wikimedia. For some of them, that was a given at accreditation time (GMaxwell was always a commoner first, some were from other languages). However some people were active at Wikinews then moved to other projects (like MessedRocker or Mindspillage). I'm uncertain how we should handle those. Bawolff ☺☻ 22:02, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't recall moving on to another project. You're welcome to rescind my credentials at any time, by the way. Also keep in mind my independent reconfirmation program in which I e-mailed each credentialed newsie and asked them if they still wanted their credentials. Those who say yes can be recalled by the community at any time, and those who say no (and those who don't respond by August 5, as the e-mail stipulates) will just have their credentials removed. MessedRocker (talk) 21:04, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I just haven't seen you around lately (and the whole resignation message thing...). Anyways, good to see you around. I think your reconfirm program is the way to go by the way. Bawolff ☺☻ 10:18, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Category addition
editprotected "Category:Accreditation|Credential verification" should be added. Van der Hoorn (talk) 17:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ --SVTCobra 21:58, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Ooops!
Methinks I've given out some wikinewsie email addresses and not listed people here. :S --Brian McNeil / talk 23:38, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Although I received accreditation after you have posted your message, I think I'm one of them. Cheers, Van der Hoorn (talk) 17:58, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Can you add me please?
editprotected Can you add me please-name: Tristan Thomas, contact info: wikinewsie email address, areas of coverage: all really. Cheers!   Tris   13:45, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

 * This was already done by Brian McNeil. --SVTCobra 22:28, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Email/contact details change
editprotected Could someone change my email address in the Contact Details bit to patrick.gillett@firstxvnews.com.au --RockerballAustralia (talk) 06:01, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅--Brian McNeil / talk 08:40, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Wettach, Wolfgang G. (Wikinews user Gwyndon)
Location: Tuebingen, Germany Areas of interest: EU, politics, literature, religion (see user page) Contact information: AIM: Gwyndon, Skype: PeliCorn, Phone Voicebox: (US) 1-267-316-7537, (DE) 03212-9388224,. More information: Wikinews user page | Contact reporter via Talk Page | Browse recent activity | Email this user Accredited User No.: 3900
 * Received accreditation: 07:16, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks.

Is there any particular reason I'm not on this list?
I'm sure I'm accredited, aren't I? Because I'm definitely not on this page... Den dodge  T\C 00:58, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Please add
editprotected

--Diego Grez let's talk 15:53, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ Pmlineditor discuss 08:04, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
 * editprotected Oh. Could O'Higgins Region be replaced with Pichilemu? :p --Diego Grez let's talk 03:39, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

✅ -- Shakata Ga Nai ^_^ 06:31, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

editprotected

--William S. Saturn (talk) 00:05, 6 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ both. Diego Grez return fire 01:02, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Help
I apologize for my bad English and if this request for help does not correspond to this section: In Spanish we are writing Wikinews Reporters policy Borrowers, however, we need help at some points such as: "Having a local chapter of the Foundation Wikimedia in the country where the user will be credited" and "Not having blocks in force in any of the projects of the Wikimedia Foundation, under the user name or any puppet named." Given that this version of Wikinews is already in use, effective and remarkable success this feature request a little help in the Spanish version. Using common sense can not yet vote on policy to the community because we have these outstanding issues, so he appreciates the help and if anyone wants to can go to the talk page of "politics" in the Spanish version. Thanks in advance :) leave the link Wikinoticias Discusión:Acreditación de reporteros --MadriCR (talk) 03:09, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Um, honestly MadriCR, those rules are moronic. I lol'd at the [sock]puppets one, I'm not ever going to ask for accreditation there, I don't see the point, since I have been the only "sockpuppeeter" who has ever touched the Wikinoticias' interface and has done anything productive on it. Anyway, I posted like two months ago a suggestion there but nobody ever responded, so... Diego Grez return fire 15:56, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Edit request
editprotected Hi, could someone remove the wikinewsie.org email from my contact details as I no longer use it. the wub "?!"  18:09, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
 * [[Image:Yes_check.svg|link=|alt=|16px]] Done --InfantGorilla (talk) 15:52, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Rklawton
I'd prefer to be on the active list. I'm a photographer and available in the St. Louis area to help illustrate stories. The problem is: I've received no requests from Wikinewsies. Also - it would help considerably if we had some sort of documentation we could carry with us like normal journalists. It's hard to get areas closed off to all but media (though I've had occasional success) when everyone else has ID and I don't. Disaster areas, for example, are closed due to fears of looting - but they aren't closed to photojournalists who authorities often view has helping get the word out. Anyone with thoughts or suggestions please share them or at least point me in the right direction. Rklawton (talk) 04:08, 20 April 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅. — μchip08 10:52, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

 * Credible ID costs. However, I've had reasonable success with a batch of business cards I had printed up. As to getting collab. requests,... Are there any other reporters in your area? --Brian McNeil / talk 07:57, 20 April 2011 (UTC)

Full mailboxes
The following people have full wikinewsie.org mailboxes and are generating bounce messages.

 * Peter Coombe
 * Soleil Cotterell
 * Peter Coti
 * Jonathan-Alexandr Ledbury-Romanov

I know Jon is supposed to be taken off scoop. I'll remove the rest in two weeks if not resolved by contacting me for a password reset, or cleaning out their mailboxes and confirming that's done. --Brian McNeil / talk 18:41, 4 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Cleared out my mailbox. the wub "?!"  02:04, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Borked
Page is hopelessly broken; edit links take you to a totally different page in another namespace. Blood Red Sandman (Talk)   (Contribs) 15:27, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

 * I see why it's happening. I think the cleanest fix is to split the current cred template into two stages, an outer stage meant to be subst'd and an inner stage that hides most of the messy markup.  Akin to the two-stage arrangement of aband and abandoned.  --Pi zero (talk) 16:34, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Cleanup - Driven by email accounts
Per remark on Tom Morris' page, I've locked all @wikinewsie.org accounts that looked to be using an aggregator; apologies to anyone who was actually 'behaving' and using a local mail client.

Other changes:
 * Not set quotas against names I recognise as clearly active
 * Locked, and set near-full quota levels on people I recognise as no longer working on-project
 * Set quotas with some headroom against names I vaguely recognise

Anyone caught out, in-error please let me know. Anyone who has been using their account for personal purposes and is not contributing anymore, please let me know how long it will take you to pull mail, set an out-of-office and use another address? --Brian McNeil / talk 11:56, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Add Dennis Bratland
Can I have my name added to the list, per Accreditation requests/Dennis Bratland? I'm working on a couple press tours to get photography access and it might help if they could check my name on the list here. Thanks! --Dennis Bratland (talk) 20:31, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

Acagastya
What would be the field values for adding you to this page? The last one added was, for instance,

I don't remember what we were using for reporter_id, which is why Dennis Bratland's hasn't been filled in. --Pi zero (talk) 14:05, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I think reporter id is same as the user id (link). Regarding email, can I please hace "acagastya@wikinewsie.org"? •–• 14:33, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll put that in. Now that you say it, I think you're right that we use the user id.  The complication, iirc, is that we assign the reporter id at the time of accreditation and it doesn't change thereafter, but the user id changed for existing user accounts as a result of the big integration that was done several years ago where everyone now has a single account for all the sisters whereas they used to have a separate account for each project.  So the older reporter ids are different from the current user id —they're fossilized from when en.wn had its own separate account ids— which once upon a time confused me for a while.  --Pi zero (talk) 14:57, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Need to add it again, I guess. •–• 18:29, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Tried a format; let me know if you want the name handled differently. --Pi zero (talk) 18:21, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

email should be "agastya.chandrakant@wikinewsie.org" and would you mind keeping my first name only? •–• 19:45, 14 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Done. --Pi zero (talk) 19:50, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Acagastya
editprotected

Noticed updated his details on his user page (email, Asia) etc., but not here. Would be good. JJLiu112 (talk) 17:00, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

 * ✅ partially. I had been hoping @Acagastya would have addressed this themselves. I had been resisting because I am not sure if all of Asia is an appropriate location (literally 30% of the Earth's landmass) and I did not think '+' was a valid character in an email address. Turns out '+' is a valid character. For now I updated the email and removed the state from the location. Cheers, SVTCobra 14:34, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * location had been set to Asia because of spam/threat/BS I used to receive. If your email is foo@bar.com, and if someone tries sending email to foo+anything@bar.com, you still receive it, + and the rest of the characters are ignored.  The reason to have it was to see who is sending emails from legitimate point of contact, and who is spamming (+s is for spam).  In my experience, all the +s ones, which one finds from my userpage, are usually spam.  It was my way of knowing how one is using the info on my userpage. 121.243.89.74 (talk) 06:28, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * While I believe you are Acagastya, I think it best is you logged in. I included the '+' when I updated. I do not have a problem setting you location to Asia or even unknown as long as I know it is really you. Also, the community needs help it getting people access to scoop. We are trying to approve a new reviewer and and an old one doesn't get included yet. Sorry to be so business-like but Wikinews is struggling. I hope you are well and your absence has been due to success in real life. Cheers, SVTCobra 06:42, 30 January 2023 (UTC)
 * To illustrate just how bad, it was, this was our Main Page from October 16 to November 20 - no articles published. Heavy Water (talk) 14:35, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

JJLiu112
Editprotected

Name: Madeleine Liu. JJLiu112 (talk) 07:23, 28 January 2023 (UTC)

 * ✅ You probably know the global rename policy if you want to change your username. Not sure how to change your wn-reporters email (or set up a new account) if you want any of these things to reflect the name change. SVTCobra 14:21, 29 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Just FYI, Liu, Madeleine (for style!) JJLiu112 (talk) 19:34, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Inactives
editprotected Please move Cspurrier, WSS, LivelyRatification, Tom Morris, Zanimum, TUFKAAP, BRS, and SGN to the "inactive" list per the "no article edits for longer than 6 months" policy at the top of the page. Heavy Water (talk) 18:29, 12 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, Acagastya got accreditation in 2017, not 2016. Heavy Water (talk) 18:44, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ —chaetodipus (talk · contribs) 05:40, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Wikinews talk:Credential verification


text:
Talk:Mothers, teachers air more concerns about leukemia cases at California elementary school

Where's the notes? Dan100 (Talk) 14:32, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * In my notebook; I copied them over to the article. I can take a picture of them if you'd like. :) NGerda 18:28, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)

BTW, this confusion arose when you removed the link to the Notes page from the Original reporting template.

Spanish translation
I've finished correcting the Spanish translation for this article. I'd appreciate to ask first for the translations before posting an automated translation which is quite hard to fix. Thanks. Julián Ortega 22:51, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Edit
editprotected The caption says "Josesph Dunn". Heavy Water (talk) 23:45, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ --SVTCobra 00:05, 18 April 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Sudanese government signs major deal with opposition group

June 18, 2005

The government of Sudan signed a landmark agreement on Saturday with the opposition group National Democratic Alliance (NDA). Some issues are yet to be agreed upon, but the deal signals progress in resolving decades of civil war in Sudan.

Sudan, the largest country in Africa, has been rocked by two separate periods of bloody civil war, from 1955 to 1972, and from 1983 to this year. More than 2 million refugees have fled the violence. On January 9, a peace deal was signed between the northern government and southern rebels, paving the way for Saturday's conference.

The conference, located in Cairo, Egypt, was attended by both Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and Sudanese President Omar Hassan Ahmad al-Bashir. The treaty was signed by Sudanese Vice President Ali Osman Taha and NDA leader Mohammed Osman al-Mirghani. The NDA was formed from 13 political parties in 1989 to oppose Bashir's new regime after he seized power in a military coup.

Many in the international community hope that chances are improving for a settlement in the conflict-torn region of Darfur with the main rebel faction, the Sudan Liberation Army. Groundwork is being laid for elections to take place in three years.


text:
User:Dionyziz

Please see my Wikipedia User Page.

title: User:Dionyziz


text: File:Tycoseal.png

title: File:Tycoseal.png


text:
User talk:Dionyziz

Welcome
Dionyziz, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Dan100 (Talk) 17:15, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
 * Writing an article - how to write and publish a complete article
 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Style guide - how articles should look before publishing
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
 * The front page lead articles often need updating
 * Developing stories need finishing and publishing
 * Discussions need your input
 * Audio Wikinews could always use more contributors
 * And of course, stories need writing!

title: User talk:Dionyziz


text:
Associated Press publishes 6 new "secret and confidential" Downing Street memos

June 18, 2005

The Associated Press has put typed copies of six recently obtained internal British government documents concerning the lead-up to the war in Iraq on its website which are labeled "secret" or "confidential". The copies were provided by British reporter Michael Smith, who claims he destroyed the original documents to protect the sources. An anonymous senior British official said the documents appeared authentic.

The documents were leaked on 18 September 2004 to The Daily Telegraph in an article titled "Secret papers show Blair was warned of Iraq chaos". The documents, however, took 9 months to reach the mainstream press.

AP is saying that the memos show; "When Prime Minister Tony Blair's chief foreign policy adviser dined with Condoleezza Rice six months after Sept. 11, the then-U.S. national security adviser didn't want to discuss Osama bin Laden or al-Qaida. She wanted to talk about 'regime change' in Iraq, setting the stage for the U.S.-led invasion more than a year later."

"U.S. scrambling to establish a link between Iraq and al-Qaida is so far frankly unconvincing," British Foreign Office political director Peter Ricketts said in one of the memos. "For Iraq, `regime change' does not stack up. It sounds like a grudge between Bush and Saddam." Ricketts said.

Another memo addressed to Foreign Secretary Jack Straw says,"But even the best survey of Iraq's WMD programs will not show much advance in recent years on the nuclear, missile or CW/BW (chemical or biological weapons) fronts: the programs are extremely worrying but have not, as far as we know, been stepped up."

The memos express concern about breaking international law but Blair is shown as being determined to go to war as America's ally regardless.

An Iraq expert at the University of London, Tony Dodge said, "The documents show what official inquiries in Britain already have, that the case of weapons of mass destruction was based on thin intelligence and was used to inflate the evidence to the level of mendacity. In going to war with Bush, Blair defended the special relationship between the two countries, like other British leaders have. But he knew he was taking a huge political risk at home. He knew the war's legality was questionable and its unpopularity was never in doubt." Dodge also said the memos show that Blair was aware that postwar instability was likely for Iraq.

In one of the memos, David Manning, who was Blair's chief foreign policy adviser, reported on a meeting in Washington with Rice: "It is clear that Bush is grateful for your (Blair's) support and has registered that you are getting flak. I said that you would not budge in your support for regime change but you had to manage a press, a Parliament and a public opinion that was very different than anything in the States. And you would not budge either in your insistence that, if we pursued regime change, it must be very carefully done and produce the right result. Failure was not an option."

A March 22 memo from Ricketts to Foreign Secretary Straw said, "We have to be convincing that: the threat is so serious/imminent that it is worth sending our troops to die for; it is qualitatively different from the threat posed by other proliferators who are closer to achieving nuclear capability (including Iran)."

Memos on AP website

 * http://hosted.ap.org/specials/dowdoc/fcolegal020308.pdf
 * http://hosted.ap.org/specials/dowdoc/manning020314.pdf
 * http://hosted.ap.org/specials/dowdoc/meyer020318.pdf
 * http://hosted.ap.org/specials/dowdoc/ods020308.pdf
 * http://hosted.ap.org/specials/dowdoc/ricketts020322.pdf
 * http://hosted.ap.org/specials/dowdoc/straw020325.pdf


text:
User talk:207.200.116.69

Welcome
207.200.116.69, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! → CGorman (Talk)  18:54, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
 * Writing an article - how to write and publish a complete article
 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Style guide - how articles should look before publishing
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
 * The front page lead articles often need updating
 * Developing stories need finishing and publishing
 * Discussions need your input
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title: User talk:207.200.116.69


text:
User talk:138.89.215.127

Welcome
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title: User talk:138.89.215.127


text:
User talk:Free them

Welcome
Free them, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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John W. Snow image
Looks like a classic publicity image, which is allowable on Wikinews under the Fair Use policy. There are a couple of issues, however. Could you please add a link to the image to the source of the image? The text you included in the image description seems to refer to a different image; do you want to clarify it? And you'll need to add the appropriate fair use tag to the description as well, so it won't be deleted out of hand.

Thanks for your contributions! - Amgine/talk 03:37, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
 * It was deleted as it didn't have a link. Bawolff ☺☻ 06:07, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

News?
I recently added this tag: Notnews to the article you have been working on "New Gender Gap." Please discuss on the article’s talk page. MyName 15:14, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the change; It makes it a lot more clear why, as it is backed up by evidence. MyName 18:11, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Re: Remove Tag?
I will not contest a removal of the tag but I cannot speak for others. However, the develop tag is still needed. MyName 16:24, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * One additional note: The title, "New Gender Gap" may need to be changed, as there is already a Business Week article with a name, whose only difference is the addition of “The”. MyName 16:28, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Free them


text:
User talk:4.173.53.105

Welcome
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title: User talk:4.173.53.105


text:
User talk:Holger I.

Welcome
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title: User talk:Holger I.


text:
User talk:200.206.151.170

Welcome
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title: User talk:200.206.151.170


text:
User talk:68.42.73.85

Welcome
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title: User talk:68.42.73.85


text:
User talk:80.195.187.80

Welcome
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title: User talk:80.195.187.80


text:
User talk:203.46.67.5

Welcome
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title: User talk:203.46.67.5


text:
User talk:130.13.152.214

Welcome
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title: User talk:130.13.152.214


text:
User talk:200.208.214.126

Welcome
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title: User talk:200.208.214.126


text:
User talk:SID-KJ654

Welcome
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title: User talk:SID-KJ654


text:
User talk:207.200.116.13

Welcome
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title: User talk:207.200.116.13


text:
User talk:69.140.148.195

Welcome
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title: User talk:69.140.148.195


text:
User talk:200.230.203.100

Welcome
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title: User talk:200.230.203.100


text:
User talk:81.60.81.51

Welcome
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title: User talk:81.60.81.51


text:
User talk:80.43.12.237

Welcome
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title: User talk:80.43.12.237


text:
User talk:Usurper

Thanks for the introduction. I'm not really interested in anything other than fixing minor errors and making it look a little better, but mostly just checking the news. Usurper 07:00, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Usurper


text:
User talk:81.214.103.81

Welcome
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title: User talk:81.214.103.81


text:
User talk:142.177.38.146

Welcome
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title: User talk:142.177.38.146


text:
User talk:142.161.174.202

Welcome
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title: User talk:142.161.174.202


text:
User talk:84.185.244.192

Welcome
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title: User talk:84.185.244.192


text:
User talk:219.88.190.232

Welcome
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Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! → CGorman (Talk)  18:57, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
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title: User talk:219.88.190.232


text:
Six killed in Burundi church massacre

June 18, 2005

Rebels from the Hutu-extremist "Forces Nationales de Liberation" have shot dead six churchgoers in Muhuta district, Bujumbura-Rural, according to army spokesman Adolphe Manirakiza.

"The first criminal attack was committed in one church at Muhuta district where a group of FNL fighters fired in the church and killed six people including a pastor. They also injured seven others", Manirakiza said.

He said the rebels shot dead a local government official and his brother and also kidnapped a policeman in the same district.

"We don't know yet why these people were killed, they may be executed because they refused to adhere to the FNL ideology, as the area where they have been killed is an FNL stronghold."

Some 300,000 people have been killed since the fighting began in 1993.

Fresh talks between the government and the FNL have raised hopes among diplomats that Burundi can finally lift one of its last big barriers to peace.

Its leader Agathon Rwasa and Burundi President, Domitien Ndayizeye signed on May 15 in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, a cessation of hostilities deal seen as a significant step toward finally bringing the rebels into the peace process.

But the rebels and the army have clashed sporadically since the truce.

title: Six killed in Burundi church massacre


text:
Youth forum to submit suggestions to UN

June 18, 2005

The Never Again youth forum on genocide prevention ended in, Rwanda with young people from the and other countries making a string of recommendations for the prevention of.

Following the visit by the President, during which he promised to give the Never Again network his "moral support" and asked members about their views on what African youth needed, the network will send its ideas to the consultation for civil society on the U.N. High Level Panel to be discussed in September, which includes bringing in a new principle of Responsibility to Protect into the international framework of sovereignty.

Conference participants called for more local input in international protection work as well as for the international community to listen more to voices on the ground. They accused the international community of failing in their duty by not giving U.N. missions more power on the ground and using the "excuse" that they did not know local languages and therefore did not respond to incitement to violence towards Tutsis broadcast on national radio in the lead-up to the.

Many participants criticised the uneven responses given by the international community to different regions. A participant from the called for help to be given to "all citizens in the world, without distinction". Another said: "If our poverty [in Africa] is the cause of our being ignored then I fear for the future. Where there is interest there is energy and I fear we will lose the energy."

The final day also featured intense dialogue on regional conflict in the Great Lakes region and showed the different perspectives on the Burundi/Rwanda refugee story (link). Discussion groups looked at ways in which the youth could create better international networks and improve critical thinking and communication amongst the youth.

A media group took part in the conference and reported it for Wikinews this week. They will now produce a publication which will be translated into and distributed vocally as well as on paper as a way of involving young Rwandese from rural areas who have very high levels of poverty and illiteracy.

title: Youth forum to submit suggestions to UN


text:
Hotel Rwanda hero tours USA

June 18, 2005 Paul Rusesabagina, the real-life hero portrayed in the film "Hotel Rwanda", visited Atlanta, Ga. and Washington, D.C. this week to address American students and business leaders at schools and conferences centers. His appearances coincide with World Refugee Day events in Washington.

At Sleepy Hollow Elementary School in the Falls Church section of Fairfax County, he spoke to elementary school students who had learned about his accomplishments in the weeks prior to his appearance.

"I thought I was doing the right thing," Rusesabagina said. "You also should do the right thing." He explained the situation he faced in simple terms. "There were bad people and good people. The good people came to hide in my hotel, I had to give them food. I had to give them shelter and keep away the bad people for two and a half months." When asked if he was scared, he responded "No, fortunately I did not have time to be scared. I did not know that what I was doing was different. I thought other people were doing it."

In Atlanta, speaking with business leaders, he focused on the present and future.

"What is going on in Darfur is exactly what had been going on in Rwanda, the government is killing its own citizens." He encouraged business leaders to bring money into Africa but made it clear that Africa was in need of more than just business interest. "What Africans need as a whole is not only someone who will come and pay their education, but it is also to change the systems in Africa. To help us to change, to find lasting solutions. Africa is ruled by dictators. And those dictators should know that one day they also can be brought to justice," emphasizing the idea that Africa needed a political revamping to stabilize.

title: Hotel Rwanda hero tours USA


text:
Wikinews talk:WNN:Proposal

Initial Revision
This is my initial revision of the proposal -- please discuss changes here using proper headings for individual topics. --Chiacomo 20:47, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia content
How does including spoken Wikipedia articles sound? Wikipedians have already done a lot of work on it. We can have segments of Wikipedia content. I know it's not exactly news, but it is informational and would make WNN less "dry." --Dcabrilo 22:21, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * And here is a link: Spoken Articles. --Dcabrilo 22:25, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I think this is an excellent idea -- Full Reports and Briefs already include snippets from WP. We could certainly include full-length articles, especially if they're relevant to current news topics. If there's no immediate objection I or someone can change the schedule. --Chiacomo 22:28, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Could wikipedia content also be included in Briefs and Full Reports (already being done in Audio Wikinews). Selected anniversaries, quick facts, mentions of features articles, and of course, current events might be included... Any objections? --Chiacomo 05:49, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Some of it already is. I would not object at all to keeping it and expanding it. --Dcabrilo 11:39, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

A Full Report could be something more than just a recitation of all the news for a certain date -- the report could cite wikipedia articles to provide context for current events... For example, if the wikinews article discussed something the US Senate were doing, one might include wikipedia content explaining Senate procedure. In this way, a Full Report might be more engaging (NGerda's word and I like it...) to listeners and provide context they might not get otherwise... This would require more production time on the part of the contributor/anchor, but, this is a "Full Report". I imagine segments, or "shows", running to 10-15 minutes with perhaps a brief PD Music break... I'm just rambling, but what do you think? --Chiacomo (talk) 15:43, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Capitalisation of the name
Is there any reason why the "N" is capitalised? i.e. why not "Wikinews Network" - Borofkin 07:19, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * It's capitalized to create the WNN. NGerda 07:36, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)

Purpose of this proposal?
I claim no special authority or ownership of this proposal, but, when I wrote the initial revision, I understood the purpose was to establish the inital broadcast schedule (and by extension, content) of WNN. By initial, I mean that this schedule will stand until the network evolves and, perhaps, another proposal is presented and agreed upon. Is this not the purpose of this proposal? Again, this was my purpose in the original revision. Does there need to be a broader proposal for WNN? I personally don't think it is necessary, as WNN's initial broadcasts seem "a given" -- future broadcasts and the possible move to WikiMedia servers, I thought, would occur after the network establishes/proves itself. --Chiacomo 20:45, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * You are mistaken in that the proposal was for the initial broadcast schedule. The network as a whole needs to be approved by the community.  NGerda 20:56, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * An additional comment to precede the one below: I wrote the initial revision after the conversation on the #WNN channel; the consensus there being that a proposal for a schedule should be developed -- this proposal. Another example, perhaps, of the assertion that IRC is not Wiki. --Chiacomo (talk) 21:08, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps someone should write a proposal for the creation of the network (although it already appears to have been created) -- which should include much information which is not included here including the actual purpose of the network (why do we need this), etc... I do believe, however, that if the community supports the schedule and content, that would constitute de facto support of the network. In that case, a seperate proposal might not be necessary. --Chiacomo (talk) 21:04, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Dude, this proposal is the WikiNews Network proposal. It's WikiNews Network/Proposal, remember?  The schedule proposal can be separate, but it is pretty well covered in this proposal.

"Dude", I think I will simply take a step back and see how events develop -- you seem to understand the process, to be concientious about forming consensus, and to have things well in hand. Let me know if I can help in some way. Do know that I support the WNN project generally; you also are aware of my reservations. --Chiacomo (talk) 05:09, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Yup, and enjoy life Chia! :) NGerda 17:54, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I really enjoy life -- and poking you good-naturedly with my "objections and reservations stick"... :P --Chiacomo (talk) 04:08, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

"Shows"
I would really go without these shows where people get allocated time for their own stuff, both in proposal and really ever. --Dcabrilo 04:02, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Why is that, Pechorin? I think it's a nice way for people to tune in at scheduled times for their preferred show. NGerda 04:04, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Can you first clarify what kind of shows these would be? If it's anything live and done by one person, then it will be very problematic. One person cannot present things in NPOV way. Everybody has a point of view, and even you include two or three of them, the host of the show still has the power to decide what airs and what doesn't. Besides, it's not really "wiki" to have one person creating actual content. --Dcabrilo 04:27, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * It has been clarified. Wikinews World Report is a live World News segment with live field reports from Wikinews reporters from around the world. NGerda 04:28, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * I think you guys are doing great work here with Audio Wikinews. You need to do a lot more to explain how anything "live" is going to work, however. If you are doing anything other than reading community-generated wiki content, then it represents a significant departure from the Wikimedia model. - Borofkin 04:42, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * "Live" simply means a live host that connects various Wikinews reporters from around the world to have a discussion about world events. At first, we will only cover non-controversial events, such as earthquakes, to ensure NPOV status.  This kind of programming allows for Wikinews reporters to get more involved, and encourages WNN listeners to tune it at certain times, therefore inspiring participation in the network.  I appreciate your concerns, and we are working on preparing a demo show to demonstrate what this report will be.  Please, if you have any other problems or concerns, do not hesitate to leave a message here or on my talk page.  And happy editing!  NGerda 04:50, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think that it is safe to leave to certain users to do stories on their own. Even if an event is contraversial, the reporter may not present facts accurately. Also, even earthquakes can become POV. E.g. if a reporter starts telling about government's reaction. The bottomline is that, like Borofkin said, it's not really what Wikinews is all about - collaborative work to present accurate and NPOV news. If somebody wants to do a show of their own, they can simply use Wikinews' material (recorded or not), but it should not be on WNN. There is nothing to prevent live reporters from expressing POV and/or misrepresent the facts. I do wish to hear from other users about this. --Dcabrilo 05:16, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I could easily accept and support a pre-recorded "show" where wikinews reporters present their stories, as edited and ed on wikinews, including any quotes used in the articles from sources. The quality of the program would certainly be better, as guests wouldn't have to worry about the "uhms", "ahs", and so-forth associated with live broadcasting because the program could and would be audio edited to its greatest potential. There is no reason that this pre-recorded show (that would, of course, be uploaded to commons and could be listened to before or after actual broadcast on WNN) could not run (only?) during a designated time slot on WNN thereby encouraging WNN listeners to "tune in" at certain times. Reporters would be just as involved in this scenario, too, I think, as it would be their voice on-air with the information they gathered. The community of editors would have time to NPOV and edit the article before it was broadcast and would conform, in my mind, to the wikimedia model. I'm sure there's something I've overlooked. --Chiacomo (talk) 05:25, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * The just is something about a report being live. In regards to NPOV, users have mentioned that we would need to interview everyone with an opinion on an issue for the report to be NPOV.  This is simply not true.  Look at any Wikinews article.  In many cases, only one person is quoted, yet this passes the NPOV test.  This show will be no different.  We could possibly reach a middle-ground by having the Monday and Wednesday shows be prerecorded, and the Friday show be live.  NGerda 05:47, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * But, written articles are there to edit, and often are edited to make it (more) NPOV. Live shows as such simply cannot be edited and represent views of only one person, without community input. --Dcabrilo 06:25, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * When you look at an article, it is in a live form. It is up to you to fix it.  Live shows can easily be edited an rebroadcast, just as regular articles are.  NGerda 07:08, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's a fair comparison. First of all, radio has a different format. Once people hear it, there is chance they will not listen to the revised format. Also, hardly anybody is going to have transcript to those shows in other to edit them. The best we can achieve is to have somebody refuting what was said - which is in a way similar to edit war, but with another flaw that what was once said - cannot be changed (somebody else may do a different show, but nothing changes what one person said). I will not stand for shows where one person puts both an agenda and contents on. I don't think that most of the community would and I am sure that Wikimedia would not agree to host something where there is so much potential for POV. I agree that some of those shows would be high quality and NPOV, but we can hardly generalize and say that they all will be. Another concern is that recording a radio show requires a whole lot more than writing an article. For somebody to write an article, one needs exactly the same equipment as to read them, as well as some time and knowledge. For one to record something, they need a whole lot more time, equipment and badwidth. I am very sure thatin this case we would get a small group of contributors who would do all the shows. Also, many people do not have broadband in order to upload audio files. Nick, I do respect your enthusiasm on this, but I do think it's way too optimistic and not really wikiway. Anyway, if you wish, we could create an informal poll on this. I think it would give us a right idea of what community expects of WNN. --Dcabrilo 07:33, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

All I'm suggesting at this point is that I create a demo to see if it works, before we immediately dismiss it. NGerda 15:12, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok, that's fair enough. Keep us posted :) --Dcabrilo 22:09, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I don't think that you should stop what you are doing, but you should be aware that something like this could be controversial. It could even attract the attention of the Foundation, and we all know what *that* means (actually, I don't know what that means, but it certainly sounds ominous). - Borofkin 00:29, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I am aware that something like this could be controversial. Look up.  NGerda 00:29, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

User shows in proposal
I removed User shows from proposal, for now, as it seems that NGerda was the only one supporting them here. If NGerda does some demo material and manages to rally support of the community for them, the wording is still in history to be returned :) --Dcabrilo 20:56, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Well done. --Chiacomo (talk) 21:17, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Demo material
I've recorded a live demo of Wikinews World Report with Ross Koepke, and demonstrated the ability to edit live reports. The edited file was uploaded less than 20 minutes after the actual recording, showing that it is really easy to edit live reports and rebroadcast them. I think we're on the verge of something great here. Enjoy!

 * [[Media:Wikinews World Report 6-24-05-A.ogg|Live version]]
 * [[Media:Wikinews World Report 6-24-05-B.ogg|Edited version]]

 * I personally don't see what it demonstrates. The article about it was written. Why not just read it? If you need to clarify things, that's why we are a wiki. Here is what I see as potential problems right now:
 * The person doing an interview may not be well informed or may have an agenda, so the questions he/she asks can be loaded or just plain irrelevant.
 * The person giving an interview can say whatever they want - blatant POV or factually incorrect things - without anybody in the Wikinews community being able to do anything about it. Unless of course, the script was prewritten, but that's not really a live interview anymore.
 * I don't see how this is better then simply reading news after they have been written and went thru a wiki-process. I really don't. Do tell me if I am missing something, because I am still open to the idea, just not worked up really.--Dcabrilo 03:53, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Dcabrilo, one of the main things I demonstrated with this is the potential to edit out POV, just as Wikinews edits out POV. Articles at Wikinews are live, and the POV gets edited out over time.  This same principal should be applied to live shows on WNN.  Secondly, the purpose of a live interview is to shed light on things missed in the article, or to serve the article up in a different fashion than a written article.  In the future, we could do live interviews with various experts in fields mentioned in an article, making sure we properly and fairly represent both sides of an issue, and then use parts of those interviews in the article itself.  It is fair to compare a live interview with a live Wikinews article.  Wikinews articles, in general, represent two sides of an issue.  They are still considered NPOV.  With live interviews, we will make sure that we represent the same, if not more, number of views as expressed in a Wikinews article deemed NPOV.  Peace.  NGerda 04:12, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * How does this article exactly show that we can edit out POV from a live interview? Also, how do we protect against incorrect statements? Who can exactly choose whom to interview live in order to get different POVs? I propose that we interview people that we would, and if the quote is appropriate, use it in the article. Then when the news report is edited, just use their voice. But I just don't see how a host to a show can guarantee NPOV and factual correctnes. I really don't see the wiki process in this kind of shows. --Dcabrilo 05:46, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I am merely demonstrating that a live audio report can easily be edited (for whatever reason, including POV) in a reasonable time frame, and then be rebroadcast; just like any Wikinews article. The Wiki process is being worked on; eventually it will be set up to that the subjects covered are wiki, the guests chosen are wiki, the questions asked are wiki, and once the show is broadcast, the show is then wikifiable, and it can be rebroadcast. It is only fair to compare Wikinews broadcasts to Wikinews articles. NGerda 06:17, Jun 25, 2005 (UTC)
 * I like your idea about the voice quotes/article quotes. That makes perfect sense. --Chiacomo (talk) 05:50, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Why just WNN? Why not an entire WikiCast framework?
Hi,

Been reading about WNN and having had some disscussions in the #WNN IRC chatroom, I'd like to put in a suggestion for a BIG idea

The BIG idea is to use WNN as the basis for developing a a larger WikiCasting framework so that multiple indepdent and diverse 'stations' can brodcast original programming in co-oprative and co-ordinated manner

I would also appreciate it if someone more aware of how to make formal proposals for new projects could make some comments or suggestion on how the WikiCasting idea could be developed.

The reason for wanting to have WikiCast stations is so that there is a choice in an era where broadcasting is becoming increasingly dominated by large entites.
 * We should start out with just one station, and as participation grows and kinks are worked out, we can totally expand. -- NGerda 18:24, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
 * Agreed, it's nice to start somewhere. We are building the system in such a way that other projects could use and take on the concepts and code, but it's nice to have a specific project to start such a thing off with. --Kyelewis 07:17, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

"Broadcast Admin" Questions
1. What is the rationale behind the creation of a new class of sysop with the establishment of Broadcast Admins? 2. How, specifically, would their position differ from that of current WN Admins? 3. What could a Broadcast Admin do that a WN Admin would not be allowed to do? 4. Are any current users "grandfathered" in as Broadcast Admins under this proposal without a community vote? 5. Who is empowered after the community vote to promote an individual to Broadcast Admin status? -- Davodd | Talk 18:59, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Broadcast admins will have the ability to stop any program durring broadcast in the event it gets too POV or is just audio-vandalism. I (Ryan524) would become a broadcast admin upon approval of WNN, just as Eloquence was the inital syaop when the wikimedia foundation apporved wikines (because Eloquence proposed wikinews, and i am the proposer of WNN).  I would also give the password to the web based icecast admin center to anyone voted to become a broadcast admin, with that password they can login to a web-based system where they can carry out duties, such as having the ability to stop any broadcast ect.  Myself or any other broadcast admin could possibly be removed from power with a community vote (if the admin abuses admin powers) just as a wiki admins who abuses the power can loose his/here powers.--Ryan524 19:13, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's appropriate for admins to have a right to decide what's POV and what's not. --Dejan Čabrilo 19:18, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
 * They don't have to decide, its already known, what POV is, just as wiki admins enforce policies on the wiki broadcast admins enforce policies on brodcasts, the admins are chosen by the community as trusted members, and the community can still chat with the admins saying you know last time this show was on, it really seemed to get POV or why did you cutoff that last show? ect. But the powere to cut off a broadcast couldn't be given to everyone or it would be abused.--Ryan524 19:22, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
 * You probably pointed out the greatest flaw of "live shows" and "user shows" in general right there. --Dejan Čabrilo 23:29, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The reason "Broadcast Admin" was included in the proposal is that it might not be appropriate for everyone who should control a stream's functions to neccesarily have complete sysop control over the entire wiki. It is designed as a sub-set of admin functionality, rather than a seperate set of powers. --Kyelewis 07:11, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

'Mod Points' System?
In the same style as digg or other systems that use "points" to mod things, could this be something that would put people more at ease about wiki moderating of WNN content? Kyelewis 06:54, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
 * What do you mean mod points syetm?--Ryan524 07:03, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
 * The concept is that the community votes on whether a piece is good or bad, and it effectively becomes played if it is within the more popular of the current set, or less played (or perhaps not played at all) if it is in the least popular of the current set.Kyelewis 07:09, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I dunnno if that would be best, if somebody signs up for a show, they expect to be broadcasting then, however people can vote to remove a show from the WNN schedule.--Ryan524 07:12, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
 * My initial thought would have been for new shows to start of neutrally. However, this brought around a new set of thinking. New Shows might initially be recorded by the system and possibly played on a seperate "new broadcasts" stream, which is a similar concept to a show 'in development' or an audio article 'in development'. The community can then vote or through whatever similar to existing concept, 'publish' the article or show to the WNN stream. --Kyelewis 07:19, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

User shows
As the proposal failed as is, and one of the issue seems to be user shows. For now, it seems they would have to be sacked for following reasons:
 * They are a one man thing. Although everybody is allowed to submit shows (if it passes some kind of vote, perhaps?) it is not collaborative work, and looks more like Ohmynews or Indymedia where one person submits a story, but it's not open to community input. It also depends on one person's competence.
 * Wikinews is about news. It's not about debate, opinions, one man analysis, entertainment, etc. Whatever a person submits as a show should be news, and that can as well be written as a normal article and then recorded.
 * We would sooner or later run into conflicts. Who gets to get a slot, and which slot. Presumably, people will want to do things in the best time of their time zone, and no two shows can run at once.

The bottom line: this is hardly something that can be streched enough in a direction to make it acceptable by most users. World Report, for example, is de facto Nick's (NGerda) show. The program is interesting and has potential, but not for Wikinews. It is simply not editable. Interviews would have a great potential, but only if interviews were embedded into actual articles. --Dejan Čabrilo 05:16, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

 * To be honest, I don't think anything is going to shift me from my opinion that this is Wikinews, that is to say, a text-based wiki reporting news. Spoken recordings of existing articles - OK - anything more than that - start a new WMF project. Dan100 (Talk) 09:59, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Dejan, how did you get the impression that this was a "one man show"? I have stated repeatedly that WikiNews Network and Wikinews World Report are completely open to collaboration and community involvement.  I even set out an open request for collaboration on the next Wikinews World Report, and invited others to host the show themselves.  And about timing conflicts, many suggestions have been made as to expanding WNN into many localized networks targeted at respective geographic regions.  Hopefully we can work this out.  Regards, NGerda 04:04, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

 * Beyond what you have said, there is nothing to show for it. You repeatedly keep saying how shows are Wiki, etc. but apparently most of us here disagree and can't see it working. You have not addressed any of our concerns, except for replying assuring us that there is something that we just can't see, but is there. --Dejan Čabrilo 04:48, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Dejan, I can prove that these shows are wiki if people would contribute. I have an entire system in place for contributing and collaborating on shows at all levels at Audio Wikinews/Wikinews World Report/August 5, 2005, and I made a link to it asking for contributions on the Wikinews Media menu, which you promptly deleted.  All I am asking for is community involvement to show that this is indeed wiki; and the idea behind wiki is community involvement, which so far has been limited to Kye, Mr. M, and me.  -- NGerda 04:56, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Broadcast admins
This still needs explanation. If we were either to stream or have on-demand kind of content, somebody needs to be there with access and technical knowledge of how to do it. So, how do we plan to do it? --Dejan Čabrilo 05:16, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * We would elect Broadcast admins the same way we elect regular admins. They would have a technical knowledge of the system and would be able to boot shows in necessary circumstances.  This is all described in the proposal.  Regards, NGerda 04:05, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Stream vs. on-demand
I wish somebody explained both technologies in detail and gave pros and cons. --Dejan Čabrilo 05:16, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I can explain the basics - on-demand is the user pulling the content when they want it (I think podcasting - pushing the content via RSS for later listening - falls in the same category). Streaming is just connecting to a live stream (a la the BBC radio feeds).

 * On-demand is very easy to do - Spoken Wikipedia/Wikinews is this, and podcasting is trivial to set up (I think MrM has done this, I've done it too but with the lack of content, didn't bother telling anyone :-) ).

 * Streaming requires a server running streaming software and is more complex, and not possible with MediaWiki. If anyone wants that sort of technology, no-one will code it for you - you'll have to write it yourself! Dan100 (Talk) 10:06, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Dan, we already have a system in testing that is a MediaWiki-based streaming server manager. It is available here.  -- NGerda 04:08, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

My view
It seems that this proposal is aimed at creating an entertaining network, à la CNN or FOX. I.e. engaging interviews, shows, etc. Also, it seems likely to become a place for people to fulfil their need for personal expression. Wikinews should be a place to get pure information, and we are here to write that information. We all have a place here to set agenda we feel needs to be represented more, but just like we can't claim articles we contribute to as our own, we should not be able to claim air space for ourselves.

I do think WNN has a potential, but only as a place to collect all of our written work. Also, we should probably concentrate more on creating Audio Wikinews good and stable and somewhat standardized before we proceed to WNN. --Dejan Čabrilo 05:24, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

 * This: It seems that this proposal is aimed at creating an entertaining network, à la CNN or FOX. I.e. engaging interviews, shows, etc. Also, it seems likely to become a place for people to fulfil their need for personal expression - sums up exactly why I see no future for WNN, certainly not as something freeloading on the back of Wikinews. Audio Wikinews already has the potential to provide all the on-demand audio we could want. Dan100 (Talk) 10:08, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

 * This is a very unfortunate misconception of what WNN is proposed to be. One of my goals with WNN is to be the opposite of an entertainment network like FOX or CNN.  And the reason I see its potential as a Wikinews subproject is that Wikinews is the opposite of the online versions of these news sources.  This is by no means "a place for people to fulfil their need for personal expression".  I don't understand how you got that impression, but I assure you it is in no way what this proposal implies.  Best regards, NGerda 04:12, July 31, 2005 (UTC)
 * INRE: "One of my goals with WNN..." - You do realize that if this is approved, you would have to relinquish all control and ownership claims over any aspect of WNN to the community, including its name, schedule, programming and format. -- Davodd | Talk 08:06, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes Davodd, and I have set all of this up so the community has control over it like any other wiki project. My statement above was the reasoning behind my persona involvement in the project, not necessarily what I will contribute to it.  -- NGerda 02:51, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Update
A streaming Vorbis audio server (for proof-of-concept) will be functional sometime before the 4th quarter of this year. --MrMiscellanious (talk) – 20:05, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

title: Wikinews talk:WNN:Proposal


text:
User talk:24.61.74.112

Thanks for the edits on the Paul Rusesabagina piece :)

title: User talk:24.61.74.112


text:
Talk:40 million credit cards compromised

If you read the AP article, the FBI spokesperson had a reasonable response to CardSystem's allegation that it was asked to keep quiet. The current headline is sensational and unsubstantiated.

I agree with the above statement and I'm editing the title to reflect that. If anyone has an issue with this let me know. --RossKoepke 00:11, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wow; never saw this before; the Yahoo news(associated press) story earlier "Security Breach Could Expose 40M to Fraud" has been redirected to a new one(new reporter and title) telling people not to worry and with the FBI covering its ass. The original story seems to have completely vaporized. Paulrevere2005 01:02, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

check these out

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050618/ap_on_bi_ge/credit_cards_breach_26

versus

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050618/ap_on_bi_ge/credit_cards_breach

The top is the earlier story on yahoo news; the lower is the later one TO WHICH PEOPLE ARE REDIRECTED IF THEY CLICK ON EARLIER STORY LINKS, JUST AS WITH THE TOP SOURCE ON THIS WIKI ARTCLE!

IMO we are witnissing a very primitive attempt at damage control. The first AP story said that CardSystems' Friday statement was

"vetted by the FBI". "The company said it was told by the FBI not to release any information to the public; its statement Friday had been vetted by the agency."

The FBI vetted statement is the very statement that said the FBI told them not to advise the public about the cards being compromised.

Now unless we believe that Cardsystems is so stupid and reckless as to falsely accuse the FBI of putting customers' accounts at risk AND THEN to lie and say the FBI vetted the statement making that accusation; then this recent story is simply damage control..which I think it obviously is.

This link []shows that some of the links to the original AP story titled "40M Credit Card Accounts Could Be Affected" have been redirected to the later AP story titled "MasterCard: 68,000 Customers at High Risk". The later story reassures customers and has an FBI spokeswoman contradicting Friday's statement by cardsystems. The FBI spokes person even says the information should have been released;

The new version says;

"CardSystems' chief financial officer, Michael A. Brady, said Friday that his company was "blindsided" by the MasterCard release, adding that his company was told by the FBI not to release any information to the public.

McCarley(FBI SPOKESPERSON) said MasterCard was obliged to its customers to release the information and was not told by the FBI to keep the security breach private.

McCarley said the FBI did ask CardSystems to not release details that might compromise the investigation - but she denied that the FBI had asked the company to not disclose that the intrusion occurred.

"I'm not sure where they got that impression," she said, adding that it was important for the public to be warned so card holders can be more careful while checking their statements."

The new version leaves out the reference to the Friday statement by CardSystems having been vetted by the FBI.

I think that the FBI actually broke some laws when they told CardSystems not to tell the public about the compromising of the cards; ESPECIALLY some European laws (lots of those cards are likely owned by Europeans) and now the FBI is shitting all over themselves trying to cover it up.

I think there is 1 hell of a story waiting here about this "cover up" and I think the people at Cardsystems might be willing to be interviwed about this. Paulrevere2005 04:50, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Maybe, but I think you'll need to watch NPOV in your articles on this. These articles are not a place to come to new conclusions without a lot of original reporting. And you're really towing the line. You might want to step back for now and re-analyze your writing with an eye for true NPOV, not necessarily performing your public duty to report everything you can find on it. That's how you'll get burned as a writer. --RossKoepke 06:22, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

File replacement
editprotected Please replace File:FBI seal.png with File:FBISeal.png, the first is a scaled-down version of the second. Thanks, Manuelt15 (talk) 03:36, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

 * X mark.svg Not done. It seems that commons user Amada44 resolved this deletion by redirecting to the SVG version: File:US-FBI-ShadedSeal.svg. --InfantGorilla (talk) 11:33, 23 August 2010 (UTC)


text:
User talk:Picklenose

and the point is? -Edbrown05 01:52, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There is no point.

There never has been a point.

There never will be a point.

That's the point!

 * yeah there is a point, it's ... obnoxious

 * You ain't seen obnoxious until you've seen the main page :)

 * who did you wrong, or your so called gf... or your so called high school principle

 * or was it the kindergarden teacher... kid u

 * The word is principal. What do you want? I'm the infamous ass pus/pelican shit/bugger vandal. And I'm ready to leave now. Enjoy!

 * all the subway trains taken... ass pus reddened by gf / shit upon by pelican / buggered by transients and has a 'tude! take that 'tude for a joy ride with the person sitting next to you, if there is one, and see how far that goes... reckon to say not far. no where man... oops... too 'beatles' when 'no where' man comes from 'hooverville'

title: User talk:Picklenose