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Iceland voters reject deal to repay billions to UK, Dutch

April 11, 2011

Results from Iceland's referendum on Saturday  show that Icelanders overwhelmingly  voted "no" on a government-approved plan to repay Britain and the Netherlands billions of euros lost in Iceland's 2008 bank crash.

In Sunday's final results almost 60 percent rejected the deal, with the voting turnout high,  the government reported. This is the second repayment plan rejected by the voters;.

British and Dutch investors lost 3.9 billion euros ($5.6 billion) in, an Icelandic internet bank that failed in. The two governments reimbursed their citizens and are now seeking repayment from Iceland. Iceland compensated its own citizens for losses but not overseas depositors.

The latest repayment plan took two years to work out between Britain, the Netherlands and Iceland and was passed by a 70 percent majority of the Icelandic parliament. It provided for a lower interest rate and a longer repayment period, conditions much more beneficial to Iceland than the previous plan. The cost would average about 12,000 euros before interest per Icelander. Those against the referendum felt that amount was a heavy burden on Iceland and the taxpayer was not legally responsible for  a private bank's losses.

In a press conference, Iceland's  said, "I think it's very hard to interpret this in any other way than the fact that the Icelandic people are not prepared to accept payments or shoulder the burden unless there is a clear legal obligation to do so." He said that Iceland can pay its debts and the country has the reserves to cover future payments.

But Iceland's said the referendum results were disappointing and have divided the country. She considers acceptance of the payment plan essential to Iceland's attempts to join the European Union (EU). Under an EU directive, Britain and the Netherlands are owed compensation by Iceland. The International Monetary Fund's 2009 loan to Iceland of $2.1 billion  contained the provision that Iceland repay the British and Dutch governments. Britain and the Netherlands are in a position to block Iceland's  application for European Union membership.

The Netherlands and Britain said the opportunity to negotiate has passed and the dispute will end up before the, the court  for the.

British  said that the British government had fulfilled its obligation to its citizens to compensate them for their losses. "We have an obligation now to get that money back, and we will continue to pursue that until we do. ... We have a difficult financial position as a country and this money would help."

Dutch said, "Iceland remains obliged to repay. The issue is now for the courts to decide."

The increasingly bitter dispute must be resolved for Iceland to have access to financial markets essential to fund its recovery, experts say, and resolution is essential for Iceland's attempts to become an EU member.


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User talk:Erock23432

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Talk:Iceland voters reject deal to repay billions to UK, Dutch

Our archives...
Contain several articles on the Icesave deal. It would be good to see that worked into this to make it more in-depth. --Brian McNeil / talk 16:40, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Here are a few ones that are relevant to the article:
 * Icelandic government passes Icesave deal; €12,000 debt per citizen
 * Nearly 25% of Iceland's voters petition for veto of Icesave bill
 * No debt yet: Iceland's President vetoes repayment of Icesave losses  wacky wace  16:50, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * There's also the stuff on them looking to join the EU. Main point in raising this is licensing; content from old articles can be copied verbatim, then edited to flow. --Brian McNeil / talk 16:57, 10 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've been looking in the categories for article. Strangely, the template doesn't mention even the 2011 events. Mattisse (talk) 20:44, 10 April 2011 (UTC)


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User talk:Mmg (usurped)

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Our submission guidelines
I'd like to let you know that here at the English Wikinews, we only accept English language news. You've recently made contributions that don't qualify as news. We appreciate your contributions, but we cannot accept the edits you've made, so they have been reverted or deleted.

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Thank you for your contributions! — Mike moral  ♪♫  17:28, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Hello,

Your recent contributions are considered to be spam and have been reverted or deleted. Should you believe that your contributions are not spam, please argue your case on your talk page, or in WN:ALERT.

Further spamming may result in your editing privileges being removed. Please contribute to Wikinews in a constructive fashion instead. — Mike moral  ♪♫  17:58, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mmg (usurped)


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User talk:Carlosshativa

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User talk:Derethia

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text: Talk:Mubarak summoned by Egyptian prosecutors to face allegations of killings and corruption


text: Comments:Mubarak summoned by Egyptian prosecutors to face allegations of killings and corruption


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User talk:VitalyLipatov

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Thread:Comments:Facebook to share the technology 'behind its servers'/Comments from feedback form - "Writing style is too much like..."

Writing style is too much like a press release.


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Thread:Comments:Facebook to share the technology 'behind its servers'/Comments from feedback form - "Writing style is too much like..."/reply

Actually, press releases are written like news articles. You have it backwards.


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User talk:MR.DOOLAH

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User talk:Kcchouette

 * 1) REDIRECT Talk:Kcchouette

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Thread:Comments:Baseball player Manny Ramirez retires after testing positive for performance-enhancing drug/Manny being Manny

No more. So be it. Good riddance. He was fun and good guy while here in Boston, but he left us all with a better taste in our mouth.


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User talk:חן ביטון

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text: Talk:Investigation launched after small aircraft crashes on Philippines mountain, killing two


text: Comments:Investigation launched after small aircraft crashes on Philippines mountain, killing two


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User talk:AzaghalNK

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User talk:生徒会二期を願う者

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British seaman appears in court, charged with murder after shooting on nuclear submarine

April 11, 2011

An able seaman in the has appeared at a  in, England this morning, charged with murder and attempted murder. Able Seaman Ryan Samuel Donovan is accused of shooting a crewmate dead in a Royal Navy nuclear submarine last week. One other crewman, Lt. Commander Christopher Hodge, was seriously injured in the attack and remains in stable condition at a local hospital.

Last night, the chief prosecutor for the in  confirmed that 22-year old Donovan, who served aboard, had been charged with killing 36-year-old Lieutenant Commander Ian Molyneux and attempting to murder three others; Petty Officer Christopher Brown, Chief Petty Officer David McCoy and Lieutenant Commander Christopher Hodge. "Having reviewed the evidence, I am satisfied that there is sufficient to charge him, and that it is in the public interest to do so," he said.

Over the weekend serious questions over the Royal Navy's recruitment policy were raised as it emerged he had changed his name to Reggie Moondogg and tried to start a singing career as a artist. Relatives of the alleged gunman criticised the Royal Navy for not allowing Donovan to leave the Astute after a confrontation with a number of other crewmen. One, speaking on condition of anonymity, said senior officers knew of Donovan's deteriorating relationships with several other crew, but failed to take action.

The shootings occurred on Friday when the submarine was docked in Southampton and a party of local dignitaries visited the vessel. It is alleged Donovan walked into the control room of the ship with an assault rifle and fired multiple shots, killing Molyneux and injuring another serviceman. Molyneux's widow, Gillian, has this weekend described Molyneux, a father of four, as "utterly devoted to his family".


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User talk:N.telvari

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Thread:Comments:Mubarak summoned by Egyptian prosecutors to face allegations of killings and corruption/Mubarak's Recall

Did he think he would just resign and walk away? Apparently so. Let's hope the prosecutors carry through to the end of their investigation and act accordingly. I like it when actions DO have consequences.


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User talk:Angelica Caldeira

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User talk:P0851035

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Thread:Comments:US government shutdown averted in last-minute deal/Comments from feedback form - "Why a smiling photo of the man..."/reply (2)

oh please... nobody came out of this as a "winner". I think people are disappointed that disagreements in Congress have to be resolved like this


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User talk:Facebook johnny jovanny machala 80

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Wikinews:IRC workshop/April 10, 2011

[14:00] <- Logging START -> [14:00]  Meetings yay! [14:01]  So what do we do first? apologies for absence? Move to approve the minutes of the last meeting? [14:01] == BarkingFish [~thor@wikipedia/BarkingFish] has joined #wikinews-workshop [14:01] Well, first of all let's see what's on the agenda that we can tackle [14:02] == Nascar [4a2294de@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.34.148.222] has joined #wikinews-workshop [14:02]  How about peer-review? Is it too strict? [14:02]  Salut / Good Evening / Guten abend / Buenos noches / Buonasera [14:02]  Saluton BarkingFish. [14:03]  Have I missed anything? [14:03] No, not really too strict. When it gets too *lax*, so we start making a lot of mistakes, that creates tension on the project. [14:03] Yes. That was an issue I'd like to highlight: What do we do about peer review? Do you agree with the proposal to allow selfpublishing and peer review live side by side? Why or why not? [14:03]  by the way, who's chairing? [14:03]  Nope, just kicked off Nascar [14:03] No chairman, KillingVector - this is just an open meeting [14:03]  because I have a sense that there's not a lot of point drafting an agenda and then having a free-for-all discussion. [14:03]  Why you kick me? [14:04] There's no strict flow or anything, we'll just take the discussion wherever people want to take it. The agenda is just a suggested starting point from which we can launch new ideas. [14:04]  I think he meant we just started, Nascar. [14:04]  No, Nascar - kicked off is another way of saying "it's started" [14:04]  Ah OK. Well, in that case. [14:04]  Sorry, I had the other meaning of kicked on here. :/ [14:04] OK, have we started logging? [14:04] <- logging START -> [14:05] * Nascar feels we need to change the display of our site. [14:05]  We started already. [14:05] Ah, right, sorry. I forgot. Anyways, back on topic [14:05] <Mikemoral> At 21:00. [14:05] <St-Lemur> The proposal put forward by some editors to loosen peer review to the extent that some articles would be published without review is fundamentally flawed, in that it addresses the wrong problem while putting the integrity of the project at risk. [14:06] <St-Lemur> The problem we face immediately is an insufficiency of new editors becoming engaged with the project and developing to the point where they write good, publishable articles. [14:06] <Nascar> I think we do need to remove it, but we don't need to publish nonsense. [14:06] <diegogrez_> BarkingFish: Buenas noches ;) [14:06] == Tyrol5 [60ec95f5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.96.236.149.245] has joined #wikinews-workshop [14:06] == BarkingFish [~thor@wikipedia/BarkingFish] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] [14:06] <diegogrez_> Hi Tyrol5 [14:06] == BarkingFish [~thor@wikipedia/BarkingFish] has joined #wikinews-workshop [14:06] <Tyrol5> Hey Diego! [14:07] <BarkingFish> sorry about that, my network died [14:07] <St-Lemur> The question that should be asked, then, is "how do we engage new editors?" The proposal to drop peer review makes a vague, hand-wavy attempt to answer this by saying that if what people submit is automatically published -- regardless of quality -- then first-time editors will be encouraged to write a second article. [14:07] St-Lemur, I agree to some extent. At the same time though, I don't feel the status quo is working for us either. As I've said before, we're perpetually stuck "behind the curve" because articles wait hours or days before they're published [14:07] <diegogrez_> So what is this all about, last time I didn't pay attention [14:07] We don't want to publish copyvios, or factual errors, or POV. That's most of peer review right there. [14:07] Then they're of no use to anyone, because the MSM has long moved on to fresher topics [14:07] <St-Lemur> But even if this is so, what will, then, encourage editors to write a *good* second article? [14:08] <St-Lemur> The essential confusion is that the proposers are mixing up total article count with total number of articles worth reading. [14:08] <Nascar> Our newest editor is Mattisse, we haven't had one to write multiple articles since then. [14:09] Wikinews can't do synthesis articles that are as up to date as their sources; and the cure for *very* late is more contributors, which gets us back to recruiting and retention. [14:09] <diegogrez_> Nascar: well... Matisse isn't the "newest" editor, but the most notorious recently [14:09] Just as a comparison, does anyone know whether we published a lot of POV/poorly-written material in the days when selfpublish was the norm? [14:09] <St-Lemur> pizero, yeah, by definition synthesis articles will be behind the curve. [14:09] How do we stand now in terms of reliability and NPOV compared to then? Is it markedly better? [14:10] <Nascar> I meant the last editor who is newer than most of us who has created more than one article. [14:10] <BarkingFish> I wouldn't know unfortunately, tempodivalse - since I wasn't around on WN when you used to permit self publish [14:10] <Nascar> Maybe come up with a right that if you get past a certain point people can trust you not to right copyvio etc? [14:10] <BarkingFish> But in my eyes, with our presence on GNews and our wish to keep ourselves reliable, the option to permit self publication is not one I would support in any form. [14:10] That's an idea we floated around a bit, Nascar [14:10] <St-Lemur> Nascar, but that trips over the problem of getting *new* people [14:11] My sense trawling the archives (for categorization) is that our quality is distinctly higher. [14:11] The community can allow certain editors to self-publish [14:11] That means that the number of articles in the queue becomes lower [14:11] <St-Lemur> in this way the "unpublished articles" problem is actually two problems -- one, new peoples' articles not being published because they're crap and the experienced people aren't fixing them; and two, experienced peoples' articles languishing in the queue. [14:11] and allows reviewers to focus on newbies' articles [14:11] <BarkingFish> If peer review is falling behind so far that we're losing stories because of staleness, we need to look at making sure reviewers clear the queue in a timely fashion, maybe making some of them "duty" staff [14:11] == brianmc-phone [~brianmc@wikinews/brianmc] has joined #wikinews-workshop [14:11] Nobody is beyond making mistakes. [14:12] <Nascar> Ah I don't even have review right now, so I most definately can't self publish my own articles. [14:12] pizero, true. I'm just trying to find a balance here. [14:12] <diegogrez_> hi brianmc-phone [14:12] So, let's phrase this another way: Is the status quo working? Do we need to change anything at all? [14:12] == Nascar has changed nick to Nascar1996 [14:12] <St-Lemur> My recollection from 2 - 2 1/2 years ago is that on IRC, experienced reviews would "swap" tasks -- someone would say "I'll review your article if you review mine", and I thought this worked quite well. [14:12] <BarkingFish> The status quo isn't working. The question is, how do we change it without screwing the system? [14:13] <BarkingFish> St-Lemur: That doesn't work well. [14:13] <BarkingFish> I fell into that "trap" and wound up resigning. [14:13] <St-Lemur> There are ways it fell down. I generally don't review sports articles much, simply because I don't give a fuck about sports. [14:14] <BarkingFish> pizero knows the full story behind that. [14:14] We need to work on helping newbies, and on keeping things from blowing up between newbies and established Wikinewsies, and between established Wikinewsies. [14:14] <brianmc-phone> It does if the community is static, or very slowly growing [14:14] <Nascar1996> To get more editors (or 'new' people) we need to get more people to know this wiki exists. Most people thinks Wikipedia is the only one. [14:14] <Nascar1996> *think [14:15] <St-Lemur> so the whole issue really is about how effectively we recruit [14:15] <BarkingFish> pizero: The problem with that is, that my feeling certainly is that those of us who are "established" wikinewsies shouldn't be dumbing down so the newcomers can keep up. [14:15] <St-Lemur> Could we maybe look at news-on-Wikipedia articles and wikistalk promising editors? Say, "Hi, I noticed you're editing an article about x, did you know that there's en.wikinews.org for..." [14:15] St-Lemur, yes. Not only that, though, but how to retain contributors. Wikinews has a far higher burnout rate than any other WMF wiki I've seen. [14:15] <BarkingFish> Maybe a little bit when they first join, but they need to get up to speed, and quick [14:15] * Nascar1996 does believe Wikinewsies shouldn't be as harsh as they are. [14:16] st-lemur, I don't think wikipedians would enjoy that sort of linkspamming [14:16] <Tyrol5> I think that if you actually approached editors on WP that are explicitly interested in journalism about WN, we might get some new faces around here [14:16] They've frowned upon that in the past [14:16] <St-Lemur> tempodivalse, who has? [14:17] Wikipedians. They don't really appreciate canvassing to other projects [14:17] == dendodge [~dendodge@wikinews/Dendodge] has joined #wikinews-workshop [14:17] <St-Lemur> the users themselves or jealous admins? [14:17] <Nascar1996> Most don't. [14:17] Well, I don't know about that. I'm not in a position to comment on en.wp politics. [14:17] <brianmc-phone> I tried to get Wikinews mentioned in various ongoing event-type templates... Went down like a lead balloon. [14:18] <BarkingFish> BRS is the best person to ask about that, since he's got admin on both projects, tempodivalse [14:18] <BarkingFish> when he's about that is. [14:18] <Tyrol5> I wouldn't be upset by it. Although, I mainly found WN on a whim [14:18] <St-Lemur> I mean, if it's just Sceptre being a pain in the ass... [14:18] I think we need to stop worrying about WP and comparing ourselves to them all the time [14:18] <brianmc-phone> Mace beats Sceptre. :p [14:19] <Nascar1996> Wikipedia is the majorly active Wiki other than Commons. [14:19] Nod. And perhaps Wiktionary. [14:19] The newbie experience on Wikinews is *rough*; I got through it by going slowly, just copyediting here and there for many months. Until we can help newbies up to speed better, putting more of them through the wringer is of limited use. [14:19] <BarkingFish> I think we need to nom someone to control this discussion. It's a free for all atm. [14:19] <Tyrol5> @Tempo That's hard to do, considering that most of us spend time there [14:20] <diegogrez_> Nascar1996: yeah, but that doesn't mean we can't make Wikinews popular ;) [14:20] <Nascar1996> Most newbies' first articles seem to be ignored. My first article was about to go stale when it finaly was publsihed. [14:20] The only reason I stuck with Wikinews in the first place was because the community was so welcoming. It seems something has changed since then... [14:21] same here, dendodge [14:21] The more popular Wikinews is, the more people will be motivated to hang on long enough to get the hang of it.  That's not all that's needed, but it's a help. [14:21] <Nascar1996> The reason I have after all of this is that I just find Wikinews very inviting. [14:21] <diegogrez_> dendodge: yeah [14:21] <diegogrez_> although my first articles were ... deleted [14:21] <diegogrez_> i decided to hang around [14:21] <BarkingFish> Nascar1996: They're not ignored, but as I said in the last meeting, sometimes even a newcomers best efforts are at the titanic end of the market. [14:22] <Mikemoral> I stuck with Wikinews because Tempo welcomed me warmly. It's seems like a small, happy community then. Less so now. [14:22] <BarkingFish> Mostly unsalvageable [14:22] <Nascar1996> True. [14:22] Wikinews is an amazing concept, but the execution is teh sux. [14:22] Newbie articles are more work for reviewers, hence a reviewer with limited time will naturally choose a different article; that's perfectly reasonable from the *reviewer's* perspective. [14:22] <Tyrol5> Luckily, my first article last July went well, so I stuck around. I didn't find the place to be particularly inviting [14:22] == Mattise [~chatzilla@dt021nbe.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #wikinews-workshop [14:22] <BarkingFish> Here's a proposal for you then. [14:23] <diegogrez_> agreed pizero [14:23] <BarkingFish> How about we set up a staff of Wikinews users as a Newcomer Assistance Team [14:23] BF, we used to have that - Wikinews Welcomittee [14:23] It didnt' really work. [14:23] <Mikemoral> Made useless by the bot. [14:23] <St-Lemur> Who on WN doesn't bite? We all bite. I bite. [14:23] We were having trouble being inviting in July; we were kind of demoralized at the time. [14:23] <brianmc-phone> @Tyrol5 main problem is how awful a lot of first articles are: basically faster to rewrite than salvage [14:23] I think we should be devoting more time to newbies' articles. Those first two or three stories are *so* important in establishing a person's perspective of the project. [14:23] <BarkingFish> I don't just bite, i chew and spit the bones out St-Lemur [14:23] * Nascar1996 stays away from most newcomers. [14:24] <Mikemoral> I don't bite, much. [14:24] <Mikemoral> I try to be helpful. [14:24] <BarkingFish> Evening Mattise :) [14:24] What we need is one of three things: a) Drastically change the review process; ß) Shift our focus from lots of small bit stories to longer collaborative OR, which is more suited to the wiki model; or ?) Somehow get many, many, more contributors. [14:24] <Mattise> Evening to you [14:24] News is intense; it's hard not to bite, and even harder not to appear to bite. [14:24] <BarkingFish> Mikemoral: The welcommittee may have been made useless by the bot, but having a set of users who will help newcomers can't be too bad a thing. [14:24] Preferably all three. [14:25] dendodge: I think we pretty much already know that, that's been said over and over again. [14:25] The question is, how. [14:25] <BarkingFish> Do we, for example, have a template? [14:25] I don't know. [14:25] <Tyrol5> I think that if some editors were readily available to assist with first articles, we might have more people that stick around. I've seen users not come back b/c their first article was deleted [14:25] BF, yes! That's a good idea. [14:25] I'm just putting it out there. [14:25] <Mikemoral> BarkingFish: True. Sort of like WP's newbie helpers. [14:25] <BarkingFish> WP use one, to alert admins that the user requires assistance [14:25] For us, as a community at the moment, the first two are easy. [14:25] <St-Lemur> I don't have any idea about most of the templates we have, and I've been here for a while [14:25] <BarkingFish> that would at least be a start [14:26] <Tyrol5> agreed [14:26] <Nascar1996> Similar to WPs? [14:26] <BarkingFish> yes [14:26] There isn't a drastic problem with the review process. As I remarked way early, copyvio and accuracy and NPOV are most of review. [14:26] <diegogrez_> I think we should get rid of the bot [14:26] The thing is, nothing will work unless the new contributors feel welcome. Nobody wants to stick around on a project where they're not appreciated. I think we could improve in that regard [14:26] <BarkingFish> pizero: The biggest problem with review is that sometimes, the length of articles which a person takes on to review is in itself, a discouragement. [14:26] The review reforms are pretty much ready to be implemented, but we're not doing it. And we can easily get a few of the long-term contributors to work together on some ground-breaking OR. [14:26] <Tyrol5> This is true, the bot seems a bit impersonal [14:26] Once we do that, our contributor base will grow exponentially. [14:27] <BarkingFish> We ummed and ah'd about brianmc-phone's interview, primarily because of the length. It was a damn good interview, no question, but it's an example of one thing that puts a reviewer off. [14:27] Editors ready to help newcomers won't work without better techniques for helping newcomers. I put huge effort into helping Mattisse, and I'm sure Mattisse will agree that just didn't work out well. [14:27] Tyrol, yes, but the idea was to educate newbies about our cornerstone policies before they have a chance to do something clearly out of scope [14:27] <Mattise> If you are talking about the welcome template, I found it very helpful and still use it to start an article. [14:27] <Nascar1996> Bad part is that we can't figure a way how to change the review process. [14:27] == Jersey [43b7aa90@wikimedia/S3CR3T] has joined #wikinews-workshop [14:27] a bot is much more efficient than a team of users could be. I'm uncertain that it's impersonal [14:28] <brianmc-phone> Don't ditch the bot. Make the Welcommittee different; responsible for pushing stuff back to dev with some pointers and c/e. [14:28] <BarkingFish> The welcome bot is a good start [14:28] Yes, Welcomittee can play a key role here. But make sure it is *welcoming*. [14:28] <BarkingFish> but a personal service from someone who will stay and help you through what you're trying to do has got to be 100x better [14:28] <St-Lemur> The culture we need to have in reviewing is one of actively fixing things, instead of just slapping a template on it and the words "3/20 SEE ME" in red pen on the top. [14:28] <Mattise> I liked getting my welcome [14:29] <Tyrol5> Tempo: Although I might suggest that Wikinewsies offer a welcome as well, even after the bot [14:29] St-Lemur: bingo. I'm frustrated at how people fail articles just because they are missing a category or something, when everything else is fine [14:29] <BarkingFish> Mattise: Would you have felt differently with a personal welcome rather than a bot issued one? Would it have made a difference? [14:29] == Mattise has changed nick to Mattisse [14:29] <Mattisse> Hey, the name change worked this time! [14:30] <BarkingFish> :) [14:30] <Mikemoral> I appreciated a personal welcome. Imo, the bot does indeed seem impersonal. [14:30] Yes, how can we make actively fixing things more a part of the process, given that a reviewer has to remain independent if they're going to review? [14:30] <St-Lemur> then reviewer 1 does the re-write and reviewer 2 reviews and publishes [14:30] <St-Lemur> that's collaborative. [14:30] Instant de-reviewer for publish without a copyedit? :P [14:31] <diegogrez_> seems like tempodivalse welcomed me :D [14:31] <Tyrol5> The fact that I was welcomed by Tempo instead of the bot made a difference (albeit small after the success of 1st article) in staying [14:31] pizero: I think moderate alterations to articles shouldn't make a reviewer "uninvolved" [14:31] <Mattisse> What good is a personal welcome? Would the welcomer continue helping that newbie? [14:31] <brianmc-phone> Can we identify the key 1st submission failings? I put 'slapping review on too early' at the top of my list; it's asking to be bitten. [14:31] St-Lemur: But that means we need more editors to publish. that'll drive up review times, not lower them [14:31] <Tyrol5> Possibly, we could introduce some sort of mentoring/adoption program [14:31] * dendodge was welcomed by brianmc-phone :) [14:31] <BarkingFish> Ok Mattisse - I see where you're coming from with that. [14:31] <BarkingFish> And Tyrol5 - you just beat me to it [14:31] <St-Lemur> It hasn't in the past, since an article that's all written and ready to go can just be reviewed and go out the door [14:32] <BarkingFish> I was just about to suggest something again from WP, the "Adopt a newcomer" program [14:32] <Tyrol5> Sorry :) [14:32] * Nascar1996 wasnt welcomed by any. :( I asked Tempo for help. [14:32] * tempodivalse wasn't ever welcomed [14:32] Moderate alterations don't make a reviewer uninvolved.  *Big* alterations do; in mainstream newsrooms, I gather an editor can become effectively a ghostwriter of the article if xe wants. [14:32] <Tyrol5> Welcome to WN Tempo! (how's that) :) [14:32] <St-Lemur> pizero, also a good point [14:33] :) [14:33] <brianmc-phone> I, at one time, was the Wikinews 'WalMart greeter'. [14:33] <BarkingFish> you got me too, brianmc-phone :) [14:33] <BarkingFish> My welcome when I came back to WN was from you [14:33] I still haven't been given the new welcome template... :( [14:33] <Mattisse> Couldn't there be a way to get a "second opinion" if a reviewer feels he has made major changes? [14:34] There is, in a way - IRC. [14:34] <St-Lemur> hm... [14:34] Although that's not a very transparent way to do business. [14:34] <St-Lemur> this may be a stupid and technically difficult idea, but could we have the IRC channel running in a java applet on the newsroom page? [14:34] <Mattisse> IRC is not transparent and not open to newbies. [14:34] mattisse: fully agree [14:34] <BarkingFish> dendodge: you have now [14:34] st-lemur: that's cool, i'd support that idea [14:34] A big moment for me was when I got a copyeditor's barnstar from Tempo. Of course, I'd been around a while, but it *did* encourage me to stick with it. [14:35] but, technically possible? probably not [14:35] I'd look into it though. [14:35] BarkingFish: :DD [14:35] <diegogrez_> St-Lemur: that isn't hard to do, but let's see if Wikimedia's mediawiki version can do it (I have done it with other wikis, dunno here) [14:35] pizero: I give out barnstars to people to help boost morale and put off any signs of burnout. I think it's a practise we should employ more [14:35] <BarkingFish> let me just go and have a quick word with #wikipedia-en-help, it's one of their bots which does the online helpme alerts from the helpme template. [14:35] <diegogrez_> Mattisse: maybe we could log publicly the IRC? [14:36] It shows your work is appreciated. [14:36] <Mattisse> I have a couple of times "rescued" a newbie article when it is fixable and the newbie doesn't return to fix it. [14:36] <Nascar1996> I cleared out the review category for about a week. [14:36] The wikinews chan could be publically logged ... that would boost transparency [14:36] <St-Lemur> I dunno if people would feel like reading logs [14:36] <St-Lemur> it's a fair point but I don't know if it would solve the immediate problem [14:36] <Mikemoral> I know I don't. [14:36] We could highlight issues where wikinews is being discussed [14:36] <brianmc-phone> Nascar, the problem is that can burn you out for multiple weeks [14:36] and cut out the off-topic banter [14:37] <diegogrez_> let's do it then - @St-lemur I think most loggers have a search box [14:37] <St-Lemur> diegogrez_, yes, but who really wants to trawl megabytes of text file for the one time someone mentioned some keyword? [14:37] <St-Lemur> search box or no? [14:37] <Nascar1996> Ah, no. If you have seen what I used to do on WP. You might change your mind. Making a race article weekly is a lot of work. [14:37] <diegogrez_> whatever, it would make irc more transparent (remember the Nascar1996's thing last weeks) [14:38] <St-Lemur> I don't object to it, I just don't think it solves the new user problem. [14:38] Thing is, if you cut out the off topic conversation, there's not really a whole lot of discussion left to put in a log [14:38] it might be feasible if we could get people to move casual talk to a social chan [14:38] But I'm not sure this is a critical issue at this time. [14:39] <brianmc-phone> Since we've already sprawled into here, yet another channel, why not #wikinews-newsroom - always logged, and running in an applet on the newsroom? [14:39] <Mattisse> This is the only IRC I have participated in. Are there IRCs where wikinews talks daily? [14:39] <Nascar1996> #wikinews [14:39] <BarkingFish> I'd disagree with having the main Wikinews channel publicly logged, tempodivalse - we have #wikinews-public for that. [14:39] <diegogrez_> brianmc-phone: there was a public channel [14:39] <diegogrez_> #wikinews-public [14:39] <St-Lemur> brianmc-phone, fine by me, although it should be an en-newsroom in case other languages want to do this [14:39] <diegogrez_> I ran the logger bot, but as nobody ever used the channel... I shut it down [14:39] I wasn't aware a newsroom chan existed [14:40] Tempo: I was acutely aware after you left there were scarcely any barnstars being given out for some time. I don't have the knack of it myself. [14:40] <brianmc-phone> It doesn't, we can create them at-will [14:40] <Nascar1996> I learned most of the channels by the WN page. [14:40] <Mattisse> I have the feeling (maybe wrong) that not much is discussed on wiki. There is so little interaction. [14:41] Mattise, yes. Most user-to-user interaction takes place on IRC. [14:41] <Mikemoral> There's usually a lot done on IRC. [14:41] Which is why logging it might give more transparency [14:41] <Mattisse> No wonder I never know what is going on. [14:41] Logging IRC would just produce thousands of pages of links to photos of Tina O'Brien... [14:42] <diegogrez_> I logged #wikinews-public until January 2 :P http://toolserver.org/~diegogrez/wikinews-logs/ [14:42] <Mattisse> Why can't discussion such as this one happen on wiki? [14:42] <brianmc-phone> I'm opposed to logging #wikinews or #wikinews-en - hence suggesting another channel, also displayed in the newsroom. [14:42] Think of all the edit conflicts that would result. [14:42] <BarkingFish> bingo [14:43] brianmc, what exactly is wrong with logging? [14:43] <BarkingFish> This is the fastest live communication we have, Mattisse - it's the easiest way for everyone to commune in one place and talk together [14:43] == Jersey [43b7aa90@wikimedia/S3CR3T] has quit [Quit: ~] [14:43] <Nascar1996> Most of us hates edit conflicts. [14:43] <Mattisse> But what is ever resolved here? [14:43] Shifting the real-time interaction on-wiki seems inherently simpler and therefore more transparent than anything we can do to make IRC more transparent. [14:44] <Mattisse> I agree. [14:44] <brianmc-phone> I dislike it unless up-front. Both channels I mention have a long history of not being logged. [14:44] <BarkingFish> ok, then the next option is that we have an ajax chat page embedded into the wiki. [14:44] doesn't quite answer my question, but ok [14:44] When something is resolved here, folks on-wiki get upset about it. Not unreasonably. [14:44] <BarkingFish> there is already an extension to do that [14:44] <Mattisse> I think (the other place) is more of a community because much more happens on wiki. [14:44] <BarkingFish> we can keep realtime chat, but at the same time have it on wiki [14:44] <Nascar1996> The channels on here are like they are on wiki. [14:45] <diegogrez_> there are already links on that page to the irc chat, wouldn't solve anything [14:45] So maybe one key is to move IRC onto wiki, instead of trying to log IRC. [14:45] <Nascar1996> I agree with Tempo [14:45] But how would that work, exactly? Most people prefer IRC because it's so simple - just type something in and bingo, it's out [14:46] <St-Lemur> *nod* either way, the real collaborative work of news is being done on IRC [14:46] <Mattisse> Some of the major players (at the other place) don't ever use IRC. [14:46] <BarkingFish> Mattisse: No, that's true. But for collaborative effort, there's gonna be no faster way available to us than IRC. [14:47] WN is more time sensitive than WP [14:47] <BarkingFish> other than slapping an ajax chat onto WN [14:47] meaning IRC - which is quicker - is more convenient than running into 10x edit conflicts [14:47] <Mattisse> If it all takes place on IRC then forget newbies. The feeling I got when starting here, and still have, is that I am not part of wikinews [14:47] <BarkingFish> it's IRC without all the hassle [14:47] <Mikemoral> WP isn't time sensitive. [14:47] <brianmc-phone> Wikipedia can afford to move so slow they could discuss things using IP over Avian Carriers [14:47] <Nascar1996> I keep the feeling my edits are worthless. Most of the time I ignore the feeling. [14:48] <diegogrez_> why? [14:48] <Mattisse> It's not like a massive amount of interaction goes on wiki. [14:48] Mattisse: keep in mind, I started using IRC about three hours ago. [14:48] Mattisse: How hard is it to load IRC web chat and idle in here? It's not exactly complex... [14:49] <Mattisse> Well, you are one of the few editors I have some feeling for. Probably because I get a sense of you on wiki [14:49] <St-Lemur> I remember one article we were writing, it was breaking news about someone stealing an airplane, and we were feeding in from multiple news sources on IRC and coordinating the editing so we wouldn't conflict [14:49] == C628 [a6f800e9@wikinews/C628] has joined #wikinews-workshop [14:49] <Mattisse> I mean pizero [14:49] <Tyrol5> Hi C628! [14:49] <C628> hi [14:50] OK, I'm going to be on-and-off the next hour or so, pings might not be replied to immediately. just so everyone knows [14:50] <BarkingFish> ok [14:50] <Nascar1996> ok [14:51] <Mattisse> Where do all these breaking news discussions take place/ [14:51] <diegogrez_> so [14:51] <diegogrez_> whatever we are going to do [14:51] <diegogrez_> what is it? [14:51] mattise, #wikinews, usually [14:52] <Mattisse> I decided never to do breaking news ever again because, as a newbie it is very unpleasant not knowing what is going on. [14:52] <Mattisse> Besides, you hear the news on the radio before anything appears as a story. [14:53] <BarkingFish> The first thing I think we need to get sorted on a helpme alert for the channel, so we know when a user needs help. It works wonderfully for WP, and there is a bot which notifies the channel when a user asks for assistance. [14:53] <BarkingFish> I'm trying to get info on it now. [14:53] <Nascar1996> Mattisse: How did you decide to become a Wikinews editor and why? (This might be the same for most newcomers) [14:54] <diegogrez_> I support Dendodge's idea, we should do more OR. I love to take photographs when anything happens (best example is the Japanese tsunami emergency article) and I try to do my best, original reporting should be encouraged. [14:54] <BarkingFish> OR is encouraged, diegogrez_ [14:54] <Mikemoral> BarkingFish: The bot also does alerts for protected page edit requests. [14:55] <diegogrez_> I mean, to the newbies [14:55] <Mattisse> To Nascar, because it is relatively easy to write a story and I like to write. But I didn't know about wikinews for years [14:55] <BarkingFish> Ok, I'm gonna look at the source of the helpme template on WP, and see about whipping it into WN. I'd rather be bold and try it, if no one minds [14:56] <Tyrol5> I'd say go for it [14:56] <Nascar1996> I learned about Wikinews by portals on WP that display realated news from Wikinews. If you look at my first edit it was for a WP portal. [14:56] <diegogrez_> BarkingFish: http://helpmebot.org.uk [14:56] Keep in mind, a newbie generally needs to learn some basics before they're ready for OR, cutting xyr teeth on synthesis. OR is hard. [14:56] <Nascar1996> BF, I'd like to help! [14:57] <BarkingFish> that's the point of it, Nascar1996 - we all can. [14:57] <Nascar1996> No with the Help me template. [14:57] <BarkingFish> ah, ok. Let me see what importing it entails, and I'll grab you in a sec :) [14:58] <Nascar1996> We have a help me template! http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Template:Helpme [14:58] <Mattisse> It's a very closed society here. You have to belong to a particular culture or you don't understand what's going on. [14:58] <diegogrez_> um, why do you say that matisse? [14:59] <diegogrez_> *mattisse [14:59] <Mattisse> No matter how "welcoming" a template is, a newbie will go by what he sees on wiki, which is not much. [14:59] <Tyrol5> I agree [14:59] <Nascar1996> For help, I looked at the recent changes and asked the first editor I seen for help. [14:59] <BarkingFish> Nascar1996: Ok then, that works. If it categorises users correctly, I'll test it with helpmebot and see how we go on. [15:00] <Mattisse> I perceive it. But also I was tolk to watch a 1990s UK sit com if I wanted to understand what editors were saying [15:00] <Nascar1996> BarkingFish: Looks like http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Category:Wikinewsies_looking_for_help is the category. [15:00] <BarkingFish> that would need changing [15:00] <Nascar1996> What should it be moved to. [15:00] <BarkingFish> The bot responds to articles added to Category:Help [15:01] <BarkingFish> but we can't do that [15:01] <C628> i don't think the issue is the culture, it's the people. there is very much a dividing line between old people like BRS, Brian Mc, TUFKAAP, etc and reletive newbies, and that line is *extremely* hard to cross [15:01] <BarkingFish> because that category already exists [15:01] <St-Lemur> any article needing review is spammed into the channel... [15:01] <St-Lemur> how about any page with is similarly spammed? [15:01] <Mattisse> Agree with C628 [15:02] <Tyrol5> @C628 I think that's a common problem a young (relatively) project would fix [15:02] <Nascar1996> BarkingFish: Can I change the WN template to look similar to the WP template. The WP template looks better anyway. [15:02] * dendodge managed to cross the line, sort of. [15:02] * dendodge is a middly. [15:02] <Tyrol5> *have, not fix [15:02] Mattisse: I think he just meant that a number of editors use jokes from there. I'd never heard of that sitcom (and still haven't looked it up). [15:02] I've never heard of it. [15:02] <C628> i think Mattisse's example of being advised to watch a TV show in order to find out wtf is going is a perfect example [15:02] <BarkingFish> Nascar1996: Hm [15:02] <Tyrol5> Will be away from computer for some time (about .5 hr) [15:03] <BarkingFish> Let me look at that and see. [15:03] I think he was just saying we exhibit a similar warped sense of humour to the writers of that sitcom. [15:03] == diegogrez_ [~diegogrez@186.20.52.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] [15:03] But all he was doing was recommending a TV show. I don't think he was saying you had to watch it. [15:03] <Mattisse> Well. that implies a narrow cultural perspective. [15:04] Mattisse: Hey, have you ever seen Star Trek? I think it's a great show. You might like it. [15:04] <Nascar1996> Do we have a IRC channel to help newcomers? Similar to #wikipedia-en-help ? [15:04] <C628> but that's not helpful. I'm american, and I have no idea what he's talking about. it makes it seem like it's an in-joke you have to know to be a part of the community [15:04] <brianmc-phone> Yes, dendodge [15:04] == diegogrez_ [~diegogrez@186.20.124.45] has joined #wikinews-workshop [15:04] He was just saying that :) [15:04] <Mattisse> That was his analysis of why I was having trouble. If I watched the tv show I would understand [15:04] <brianmc-phone> Two countries separated by a common language [15:04] If you don't like in-jokes, I recommend you stay well away from #wikinews-on-wheels :P [15:05] (Unless you like Tina O'Brien, in which case you'll love it) [15:05] <Nascar1996> BarkingFish: Do we have a IRC channel to help newcomers? Similar to #wikipedia-en-help ? [15:05] <brianmc-phone> [15:05] <Mattisse> wikinews should be about more than 2 countries. [15:05] <diegogrez_> who's tina o'brian? *looks with moronic face* [15:05] <BarkingFish> Mattisse: Wikinews exists in about 20 languages [15:05] diegogrez_: A British actress [15:05] <brianmc-phone> Where are you, diego? [15:05] <Nascar1996> It is. Its about 5 Chile, US, UK, Libya and Japan [15:05] Ask BRS. He knows who she is ;) [15:06] <Mattisse> I know. the other wikinews are more friendly [15:06] <diegogrez_> I'm kidding :P [15:06] Mattisse: I didn't think he meant it that way. But then, I've had years to get used to Brian McNeil on-wiki. [15:07] <Nascar1996> BarkingFish: The helpme template was copied from WP in 2006. [15:07] <Mattisse> What did he mean? I've never heard of the show [15:08] == Nascar1996 [4a2294de@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.34.148.222] has quit [Quit: Have to mow the grass.] [15:08] <Mattisse> If anything, I 'd think there would be a news room culture here, which there doesn't seem to be [15:08] He meant you might enjoy it, and it would give you an insight into the kind of humour we employ. [15:08] He's probably the only one of us who has seen it. [15:08] <BarkingFish> I think we're on for the helpme template, stwalkerster, who runs helpmebot, is looking at making some changes to the bot so we can have our own instance for alerting us when a user needs help. [15:04] <Nascar1996> Do we have a IRC channel to help newcomers? Similar to #wikipedia-en-help ? [15:04] <C628> but that's not helpful. I'm american, and I have no idea what he's talking about. it makes it seem like it's an in-joke you have to know to be a part of the community [15:04] <brianmc-phone> Yes, dendodge [15:04] == diegogrez_ [~diegogrez@186.20.124.45] has joined #wikinews-workshop [15:04] He was just saying that :) [15:04] <Mattisse> That was his analysis of why I was having trouble. If I watched the tv show I would understand [15:04] <brianmc-phone> Two countries separated by a common language [15:04] If you don't like in-jokes, I recommend you stay well away from #wikinews-on-wheels :P [15:05] (Unless you like Tina O'Brien, in which case you'll love it) [15:05] <Nascar1996> BarkingFish: Do we have a IRC channel to help newcomers? Similar to #wikipedia-en-help ? [15:05] <brianmc-phone> [15:05] <Mattisse> wikinews should be about more than 2 countries. [15:05] <diegogrez_> who's tina o'brian? *looks with moronic face* [15:05] <BarkingFish> Mattisse: Wikinews exists in about 20 languages [15:05] diegogrez_: A British actress [15:05] <brianmc-phone> Where are you, diego? [15:05] <Nascar1996> It is. Its about 5 Chile, US, UK, Libya and Japan [15:05] Ask BRS. He knows who she is ;) [15:06] <Mattisse> I know. the other wikinews are more friendly [15:06] <diegogrez_> I'm kidding :P [15:06] Mattisse: I didn't think he meant it that way. But then, I've had years to get used to Brian McNeil on-wiki. [15:07] <Nascar1996> BarkingFish: The helpme template was copied from WP in 2006. [15:07] <Mattisse> What did he mean? I've never heard of the show [15:08] == Nascar1996 [4a2294de@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.34.148.222] has quit [Quit: Have to mow the grass.] [15:08] <Mattisse> If anything, I 'd think there would be a news room culture here, which there doesn't seem to be [15:08] He meant you might enjoy it, and it would give you an insight into the kind of humour we employ. [15:08] He's probably the only one of us who has seen it. [15:08] <BarkingFish> I think we're on for the helpme template, stwalkerster, who runs helpmebot, is looking at making some changes to the bot so we can have our own instance for alerting us when a user needs help. [15:16] The last piece of real collaboration I remember is the Fort Hood shootings article. [15:16] This gets back to the need for a reviewer to remain sufficiently uninvolved if they want to review at article - and the fewer active reviewers there are, the more motivated a reviewer is to try to remain sufficiently uninvolved, 'cause nobody else is likely to review if xe doesn't. [15:17] <BarkingFish> pizero: It's pretty much a catch 22 [15:18] <BarkingFish> The problem is, the more people contribute to an article, the higher the chance that there isn't going to be an uninvolved reviewer [15:18] <brianmc-phone> BarkingFish: Too long to edit on phone. Change point 5 on 1st tab to "ask here, or put on the relevant Talk/Discussion page" [15:18] <BarkingFish> ok [15:18] <Mattisse> That is only if you have a very small pool of reviewers [15:19] <BarkingFish> Mattisse: the size of the pool doesn't matter, when the reviewers are not significantly motivated enough to review an article anyway [15:19] == diegogrez_ has changed nick to diegogrez [15:19] <Mattisse> there are something like 160 reviewers. I have never seen more than a couple of people work on an article [15:19] <BarkingFish> brb, just going to sort out the welcome template [15:20] This is why we need to do something. The super-slow review process is, when it comes down to it, the root of *all* our problems. [15:20] The solution is less clear. [15:21] <Mattisse> What do editors enjoy doing here? [15:21] <Mattisse> Talk on IRC rather than have a transparent community? [15:22] <Mikemoral> brianmc: The goes on the user [15:22] <Mikemoral> 's talk page, along with their question. [15:22] Mattisse: exactly [15:22] == dendodge [~dendodge@wikinews/Dendodge] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] [15:22] <brianmc-phone> BarkingFish: Also add pretty much the same on the writing an article tab. Might I also suggest that the editing help in main namespace has a link to create a section on the talk? [15:22] <Mattisse> If a bunch of people collaborate on IRC, whose to know who is "involved" and can't review? [15:23] <BarkingFish> yep, ok brianmc-phone [15:23] <BarkingFish> I'm trying to work out what to edit and where, so be patient, I don't want to screw this up :) [15:23] <brianmc-phone> Collaboration on IRC is finding sources, highlighting relevant points, less-so on the actual writing. [15:24] == dendodge [~dendodge@wikinews/Dendodge] has joined #wikinews-workshop [15:24] <BarkingFish> brianmc-phone: Would I be editing Template:Howdy/content ? [15:24] <Mattisse> So that means collaboration on IRC doesn't mean you can't review? [15:24] Sorry, Firefox just crashed. [15:25] <brianmc-phone> Errr, maybe - it is under FR, so chill if you screw it [15:25] <BarkingFish> ok [15:25] dendodge: The slow review process isn't the root of *all* our problems. Some of our problems come from the fact that we haven't figured out a smooth way to help newbies scrabble up the initial learning "curve". [15:25] <brianmc-phone> Not unless you're contributing content. [15:26] <BarkingFish> brianmc-phone: that looks right - I'm gonna save it [15:27] <brianmc-phone> Who's doing the embedded channel in the newsroom then? [15:27] Also, newbies who aren't up to speed can contribute significantly to the review times, so the problems reinforce each other nicely. [15:27] <BarkingFish> just gonna warn #wikimedia-tech there maybe a bit of a job queue, this edit is gonna affect about 80000 pages [15:28] <brianmc-phone> Lol [15:29] <BarkingFish> there it goes :) [15:29] <BarkingFish> there it goes :) [15:30] <BarkingFish> does that look ok on the template? [15:30] He's right, it's about 80000 pages; I counted them when I put the template on the  documentation. [15:31] <BarkingFish> i only found out when I went to edit and got warned it was used on a shedload of pages [15:31] <Tyrol5> looks good to me, BF [15:32] <Mattisse> What is the point of putting in on 800000 pages, when hardly any of those are actually editors who edit here? [15:32] <Tyrol5> It's the bot [15:32] Matisse, the hope is that someone will be motivated by the template to write [15:32] and the bot can't distinguish between "real" users and those who had an account auto-created by the WMF wiki-farm software [15:33] <Mattisse> I don't think it is lack of motivation that's the problem [15:33] <BarkingFish> anyway, the information is there, so we're gonna start to see that template in use I'd imagine [15:33] == C628 [a6f800e9@wikinews/C628] has quit [Quit: Page closed] [15:33] <BarkingFish> and stwalkerster is going to sort out the helpmebot for us :) [15:34] <BarkingFish> I've asked him to drop it in #wikinews for now until we open a help channel [15:34] We need our own help chan? [15:34] * diegogrez won't be around for the next hour - needs to ride his bicycle a bit :P [15:34] tempodivalse: perhaps #wikinews-help [15:34] <BarkingFish> tempodivalse: Not necessarily [15:34] <brianmc-phone> BarkingFish, also mention it on the start an article tab, but to put it on the article discussion page. [15:35] <BarkingFish> it's just that the bot normally runs in a help channel [15:35] I imagine people could just come to #wikinews-en [15:35] <BarkingFish> brianmc-phone: I don't think the template is meant to work anywhere other than on a user talk page [15:35] <BarkingFish> I'll check it over [15:36] <BarkingFish> the helpme was originally designed to use on talk pages for peeps asking questions, i think it would look funny for articles to start asking for help too :) [15:38] <St-Lemur> sorry, I had to AFK for a bit suddenly. What's been decided? [15:38] <Tyrol5> We're going to set up an irc help channel w/ bot [15:38] Not much, it appears. We were discussing the welcome template. [15:39] <Tyrol5> for use w/ [15:39] <St-Lemur> ah OK. I still think embedding the IRC channel in the newsroom would be the rockingest thing we could do [15:39] <St-Lemur> meanwhile back in real life, "Embattled Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi, in negotiations with the African Union, has agreed in principal to a deal that would end the conflict in the nation he's ruled for 42 years, South African President Jacob Zuma told reporters Sunday." (CNN) [15:40] <Mattisse> That's old news [15:40] <BarkingFish> I'll pop it on the start an article tab as well, brianmc-phone - it would work, just direct people to ask question about the article or the edit on their own pages [15:40] <Tyrol5> I think the irc in the newsroom idea was tossed around a little bit ago [15:40] <Tyrol5> Any final decision? [15:40] I'd love to have irc embedded in the newsroom [15:40] <BarkingFish> do it [15:40] <BarkingFish> anything for "transparency" [15:40] <Tyrol5> i agree [15:41] * brianmc-phone nearly finished creating #wikinews-en-newsroom [15:42] <St-Lemur> yay [15:42] <Tyrol5> How is it to be embedded? [15:42] <BarkingFish> I still reserve the right to discuss things out of earshot though. There are some things I won't make public in any form. [15:42] I'd prefer we used an existing chan for this purpose [15:42] #wikinews-en can fit the bill, it's off teh beaten track [15:42] <BarkingFish> transparency is one thing, stupidity is another and I'll be damned if I'm gonna mix the two in one place [15:42] What about the help chan? [15:42] do we need it seperate? [15:43] <brianmc-phone> It seems more logical to me to have a newsroom channel mirrored on-wiki [15:43] <BarkingFish> i don't think so [15:43] == Amgine [~Amgine@wikinews/Amgine] has joined #wikinews-workshop [15:43] <Tyrol5> Hi Amgine! [15:43] <BarkingFish> since most of the users congregate in #wikinews, seems more sense to have it there tempodivalse [15:44] <brianmc-phone> A help channel would belong on WC/Assistance [15:44] <Amgine> Sorry, I was busy with house restruction. [15:44] #wikinews is multilingual. If other chans want to have helplines that would conflict [15:44] <brianmc-phone> Alerts can be posted in #wikinews, don't start logging and/or publicly posting it [15:45] <BarkingFish> you don't. All the bot does is tell you who needs the help, and allows you a direct link to their page to answer the question. [15:46] <BarkingFish> it presents a wikilink, and I assume Wikilink2 will turn it straight into a link for us [15:47] <Mikemoral> Hmm... [15:47] <BarkingFish> It also nags you if a user's been waiting more than an hour for help :) [15:47] <Mikemoral> Helpmebot creates link automagically when someone types !link. [15:48] <BarkingFish> yes, but with wikilink2 in the channel, that won't be needed unless the link goes from your scrollback, in which case typing that will give you the link of the last person who asked for help [15:48] <Mikemoral> Or the last link someone said in . [15:50] <BarkingFish> yeah [15:51] <BarkingFish> But there is a way of calling up users who still need help if I remember [15:51] <BarkingFish> which would bypass the !link thing [15:52] <Mikemoral> !helpme [15:52] <BarkingFish> that's the one [15:52] <BarkingFish> I knew it was there somewhere [15:52] <BarkingFish> brb [15:53] <Mikemoral> The bot also nags about protected edit requests. Would we want that? [15:54] <BarkingFish> I think stwalkerster is only setting ours up for helpme requests [15:54] <BarkingFish> he's altering the database for us [15:56] <Tyrol5> There's never that many per's anyway [15:56] <BarkingFish> I've hardly seen any tbh [15:59] <BarkingFish> The other thing I'd like to look at is a Speed dial option for new users. Sort of a reference list of places they can immediately click on to do different things [16:05] <brianmc-phone> Can people join #wikinews-en-newsroom ? Hope not too locked down, and need to template people... [16:11] <BarkingFish> right, I've set nascar on the task of giving the helpme template a facelift [16:12] <BarkingFish> basically just to add a little more info, make it a bit brighter and generally hose down the outside :) [16:12] *wonders what are we going to do...* [16:12] <BarkingFish> we don't need a seperate helpme for admin questions do we? Maybe a link from helpme to the AAA should suffice [16:13] yeah [16:22] <Mikemoral> Seeing that discussion has died down, could we call this meeting to an end? [16:22] <Amgine> Make it so. [16:23] <Mikemoral> Oh, wait. [16:23] <- Logging END ->

title: Wikinews:IRC workshop/April 10, 2011


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User talk:Metallica21100

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User talk:LanternGuardian

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Template:Caution/doc

This is the caution message box.

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title: Template:Caution/doc


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Template:Helpme/doc

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Template talk:Helpme

This is the talk page for the Helpme template

Requested move 28 December 2018
Please move the page "Template:Helpme" to "Template:Help me" please Ofreporter (talk) 01:37, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I've set up a redirect from that name to this one, so that help me should do the same thing as helpme. --Pi zero (talk) 02:05, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Help me please
I want help because some of English words I don't know how to use them please help me Leratorati (talk) 15:02, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Template talk:Helpme


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User talk:Mspray11

-- 23:44, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mspray11


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Comments:Iceland voters reject deal to repay billions to UK, Dutch

Why on earth should Iceland ever want to join the EU? Geographically, they are not even in Europe, but mid-Atlantic.

Politically, they have nothing in common with the Franco-German axis and all its hangers-on.

Independence, being able to stand on one's own feet is a virtue, and Icelanders are fine people and have that ability in spades.

However, independence, sovereignty, is hard won, and even harder to regain once lost. The only beneficiaries of EU membership will be Iceland's politicians, then able to join the EU gravy train getting their greedy snouts in the EU trough.

The losers will be the Icelandic people. If they should ever feel the need to merge with a larger entity, their interests would be better served by membership of a North American bloc of Canada and the US.

Pity is that the UK didn't adopt that option. Bringing Home [to the UK] the [American] Revolution would do democracy in the UK a power of good.

Brian Burnell Southampton 11 April 2011

The Icelanders weren't actually voting on a repayment plan, that seems to be a misunderstanding with every news on the subject. What the referendum was about is a state guarantee on the Depositor's Insurance Fund (DIF) which will be paying the Dutch and British back. It's using the profits of sales from the now bankrupt Landsbanki in that regard. So they'll get payed, but it's the interest loans used and costs of paying out immediately to the depositors that the state guarantee is supposed to cover and that is a considerable smaller amount than the billions reported.

Ásgeir Jóhannsson Akureyri 13 April 2011

Reply to Ásgeir Jóhannsson

I admit it is confusing. According the BBC source the second deal was better: "Under the terms of the rejected deal, Iceland would have paid the money back with 3.3% interest to the UK, and 3% to the Netherlands, over 30 years between 2016 and 2046. Under the previous proposal, the money was to be paid back with 5.5% interest between 2016 and 2024." If Iceland has access to the profits of the sales from the now bankrupt Landsbanki, then Iceland can use that money towards paying off that debt, it seems to me. Mattisse (talk) 15:16, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Back to Basic Principles
Whatever the details of interest etc, these were depositors in a privately-owned bank. It failed and they lost their money. End of. The Icelandic government and people have neither a legal or moral obligation to repay a private company's debts. Especially to depositors who took a risk with a bank that was offering exceptionally good returns on deposits. If a deal looks too good to be true, then it usually is. Greedy depositors took that risk of their own choice. No one forced them.

The UK (and the Dutch) have legislated to provide reimbursement to private individuals who lose their money (up to a limit) in a failed bank. That's their domestic law, and their business.

Their is no obligation, legal or moral, for the Icelandic government and people to stump up compensation to any foreign government that has chosen to legislate in this way.

Once again it's a case of the banking industry playing silly and greedy games, gambling with depositors money. It's akin to betting on a horse race, or playing poker. If the dice falls in their favour, the bankers get rich. But if the dice rolls the other way, then it's not ever the bankers fault, they expect government to bail them out. Except governments have no money of their own, only money raised in taxes on their people, or borrowed money repaid by their people from yet more taxes.

The Icelandic people have done the right thing in saying NO, and NO again.

I only wish the British people had the balls to also say NO.

Brian Burnell. Southampton.

 * I'm sorry, Brian, but you're wrong. There is a legal obligation upon Iceland to repay this debt to the British and Dutch Governments.  As you will see from the article, the International Monetary Fund loaned Iceland $2.1 Billion, with the strict proviso included, that they MUST repay the UK and Dutch.  In the event that they don't, the IMF can legally withdraw that loan, or enforce it by way of legal action.  As it is, the British and Dutch governments have already made arrangements to sue the hell out of Iceland, and frankly I don't blame them.  Both goverments repaid their depositors on the provision that they would be compensated by Iceland for these payments.  As it stands at the moment, all hell is going to break loose, and my birthplace is going to be on the receiving end of it.  BarkingFish (talk) 00:31, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

 * I accede to your superior knowledge regarding the IMF. However, this Both goverments repaid their depositors on the provision that they would be compensated by Iceland for these payments is simply not true of the British (can't speak for the Dutch). UK domestic law provides for private depositors in any failed bank (UK or foreign) to be compensated (up to a limit, believed to be £39k per account holder). That is UK law that any UK govt has to abide by. We have courts to ensure that they comply. So any assertion that they complied with domestic law on a promise by the (then) Icelandic government to repay the UK is simply untrue. In the UK that's known as spin, as in spinning a line, aka a lie. Furthermore, the Icelandic government fell, and an election ejected them from office.

 * It is a well-established convention in the UK and many other nations, that no government is bound by the actions of its predecessors. In saying NO, the Icelanders did the right thing. Large nations always bully smaller and weaker neighbours if they can get away with it. The UK has played that game too often for it not to go unnoticed now.

 * No government or people can be held legally or morally responsible for a failed private business, whether it be a bank or your local jobbing builder. The banks are greedy and corrupt. They rolled the dice and lost. Then they pulled off the audacious trick of persuading governments that their governments should bail them out. Except that the Icelandic people had the good sense to see beyond the hype and say NO!

 * Wonderful people. Were that there were more like them and the Irish.

 * Furthermore, ref the IMO loan. There is no reason why Iceland should not default on the IMO loan. Like all other unfair contract terms it can be ruled unlawful by a court. Courts in the UK routinely rule unfair contract terms unlawful, preventing stronger parties imposing unfair terms on others. Iceland could (and maybe should) challenge the unfair IMO terms in an International Court at the Hague. If such legislation is considered permissible in domestic law, there is no moral justification for not permitting it in international law.

 * Brian Burnell. Southampton.


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User talk:Andrushinas1985

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title: User talk:Andrushinas1985


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User talk:MC Definition

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title: User talk:MC Definition


text: Comments:Shiites protest against discrimination in Bahrain


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User talk:Alenbriewhite

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User talk:75.47.141.242

 BarkingFish (talk) 01:21, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

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User talk:Cata0509

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User talk:Kimiyoshi Fujii

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User talk:Scruffyhahaha

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User talk:Allannorori

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User talk:Jssteinke

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User talk:Philipblack

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title: User talk:Philipblack


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User talk:Sann0131

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User talk:Nerguy

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User talk:Jkr2255

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User talk:Grfinder

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User talk:Ytkikeda

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User talk:Duckynishan

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User talk:Katigamuktiprima

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User talk:Babuhalim

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User talk:R27Bpt

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User talk:Aswinikole

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User talk:Oktaydemet

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User talk:Mikelenis

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User talk:Bigvovan

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User talk:Kct1974

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User talk:SlimVirgin II

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User talk:Kaviranga

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User talk:Abhinavnavy

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User talk:Francky snow

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User talk:KeptSouth

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User talk:Oktay4239

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France first to enforce burqa ban

April 12, 2011

France yesterday became the first country in Europe to ban women from concealing their faces in public. Anyone wearing a face-concealing veil such as the Muslim or  in the country can, as of yesterday, be fined €150 and forced to attend  classes.

People found to have forced others to wear a veil can be sentenced to prison for up to two years. While France contains the largest Muslim population in Europe, only an estimated 2,000 women in the country wear the niqāb or burqa.

The French government said the face-concealing veil does not match the French concept of equality and does not meet the standards of a shared, society. Women found wearing a veil in public can now be taken to a police station and asked to remove the veil for identification, police have said.

On Saturday police detained 59 people who protested the veil ban in a forbidden demonstration in the capital, Paris, 19 of the protesters were veiled women. Other European countries, including Belgium and the Netherlands, have also proposed similar bans, although they are yet to enforce them. Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden has called for terrorist attacks on France after claiming the country has gone to war against Islam.

title: France first to enforce burqa ban


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User talk:Indiwar narayan parashar

-- 09:57, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Indiwar narayan parashar


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Thread:Comments:Shiites protest against discrimination in Bahrain/Comments from feedback form - "The narrative that this is a s..."

The narrative that this is a sectarian conflict and somehow abstract from the wave of democratic uprisings throughout the region is common throughout western media outlets, but I expect better from an open alternative news source such as this. People's religious affiliations has only played a minor part in the uprising in Bahrain, the demands most people have been mobilising for - increased accountability, end to corruption, democratic rights - are all secular.


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User talk:Gmaman421

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User talk:DonkeyMonck

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User talk:Anneshawtv

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User talk:Felistoria

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User talk:Evans~enwikinews

-- 10:59, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Putting articles in the right place
Hi!

You seem to have mistakenly used your userpage to write an article. If you check the above template, you will find a form where you can enter a title for the article you want to write, and will then get a template into which you can paste your article text. --Brian McNeil / talk 09:15, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Evans. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Evans~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:16, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:31, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Evans~enwikinews


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User talk:Imranmotihari

-- 11:02, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

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User talk:Tranquilantus

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title: User talk:Tranquilantus


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Crisis at stricken Japan nuclear plant escalates to level of Chernobyl; six killed in aftershock

April 12, 2011 The crisis at a on the northeast coast of Japan is now as severe as the  in 1986, officials have said. Radiation is continuing to leak from the plant, which was damaged during the devastating magnitude 9.0 earthquake and tsunami last month, which left thousands dead. Japanese authorities have warned the crisis is now a "major accident" with "wider consequences" than previously thought.

A spokesperson for, the Japanese government nuclear authority, said officials had upgraded the crisis to a level seven on the —the same applied to the Chernobyl disaster—because of a number of factors, including the detection of radiation in crops. "We have upgraded the severity level to seven as the impact of radiation leaks has been widespread from the air, vegetables, tap water and the ocean," he said.

, the operator of the plant, has warned radiation was continuing to leak from the site and the magnitude of the crisis could exceed that of Chernobyl. Despite this, Japanese nuclear safety officials have insisted the leakage of radiation was small compared to the devastated plant in the former. "In terms of volume of radioactive materials released, our estimate shows it is about ten percent of what was released by Chernobyl," one nuclear official said.

The news comes as a new blow after another powerful aftershock yesterday which left at least six people dead after they were killed in a in the city of. The landslide, which destroyed numerous homes, was triggered by a 6.6 aftershock which came exactly a month after the 9.0 magnitude earthquake. Fire officials in the city said three people had already been rescued and taken to hospital, and emergency workers were working to free an unknown number of others. Workers at the damaged Fukushima nuclear plant returned after they were briefly evacuated following the earthquake, and officials issued tsunami warnings for the northeast coast which were later cancelled. Workers have been fighting a desperate battle to prevent the reactors from overheating and entering. Raging fires burned into the night after the earthquake, and TEPCO reported widespread power outages; hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses had power cut off.

Reports of the change in severity at the damaged nuclear plant followed the announcement that the around the site was to be expanded. A spokesperson for the government confirmed the radius of the zone would be expanded to include another five communities over the next several weeks. He stressed there was "no need to evacuate immediately" but said concerns had been raised over health risks from the leaking radiation.

The new development at the plant and the aftershock are new blows to a country wounded after the massive earthquake in March, which caused a tsunami that washed away whole towns and villages along the country's northeast coast. Thousands of bodies have been recovered, and many more are still unaccounted for, many left under mounds of rubble or washed out to sea. More than 150,000 people remain displaced, living in emergency shelters.

Before the aftershock struck yesterday, survivors of the first earthquake marked the time it hit a month ago with a across the country. Writing to seven international newspapers,, the , expressed his gratitude to people globally for their support. "Through our own efforts and with the help of the global community, Japan will recover and come back even stronger. We will then repay you for your generous aid," he wrote. "With this in our hearts, we now stand together dedicated to rebuilding the nation."


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User talk:Jimprall

-- 11:38, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jimprall


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Thread:Comments:Microsoft waits for death of Internet Explorer 6/IE7+ is not available for older versions of windows

IE6 is still the latest version available for Windows 2000 (released ~18 months before XP) and earlier.


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User talk:Votronghieu

-- 11:54, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Votronghieu


text: Talk:France first to enforce burqa ban

title: Talk:France first to enforce burqa ban


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User talk:Phamleduyanh

-- 12:01, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Phamleduyanh


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User talk:Nbraker

-- 12:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Nbraker


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User talk:Mvnp78

-- 12:05, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mvnp78


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User talk:AnAnthro

-- 12:11, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:AnAnthro


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User talk:Ian stapleton

-- 12:18, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Ian stapleton


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User talk:Fripouillepsp

-- 12:25, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Fripouillepsp


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User talk:Atak1358

-- 12:39, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Atak1358


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User talk:Newtime~enwikinews

-- 12:40, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Newtime. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Newtime~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:19, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:35, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Newtime~enwikinews


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Thread:Comments:Shiites protest against discrimination in Bahrain/Comments from feedback form - "The narrative that this is a s..."/reply

The *demands* are secular, but the sides are sect based. Shiite uprising vs Sunni overlords. The Shiite protestors may be demanding nothing more than fair treatment, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a sect vs sect conflict.

If you disagree, then show me equal numbers of Sunni protestors (on a per capita basis of course) out on the streets. You can't? Then it's a sectarian conflict, by definition:P.


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User talk:FANSFund

-- 12:59, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:FANSFund


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User talk:Haydar net

-- 13:02, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Haydar net


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User talk:Cybermandrake

-- 13:06, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Cybermandrake


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User talk:Pelin42

-- 13:12, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Pelin42


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Gbagbo detained by opposition forces and taken to meet Ouattara in Ivory Coast hotel

April 11, 2011

Laurent Gbagbo, the incumbent president of Ivory Coast, is being taken to a hotel in the capital Abidjan to meet with internationally recognised leader Alassane Ouattara after the beseiged ruler was detained by forces loyal to the opposition.

The permanent representative of Ivory Coast to the United Nations in New York,, said Gbagbo, who he described as "alive and well", had been captured by opposition forces in a raid on his presidential palace in Abidjan and will stand trial. The prime minister in Ouattara's prospective government has called on Gbagbo loyalists to join the opposition this afternoon, reports indicate.

Bamba confirmed forces loyal to Ouattara had captured Gbagbo, rather than French or U.N. forces as had initially been reported. "The nightmare is over for the people of Ivory Coast, there is much celebration," Bamba said. "He is now being held in a safe place for the next steps to put him on trial." New video footage of Gbagbo has emerged, purportedly showing him detained in a hotel in Abidjan where Ouattara is staying.

Fighting in the African state since a disputed election in November last year. Supporters of Ouattara claim he won the poll and is the rightful president, but Gbagbo has refused to stand down.


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User talk:Sonicx98

-- 13:33, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Sonicx98


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Talk:Crisis at stricken Japan nuclear plant escalates to level of Chernobyl; six killed in aftershock

My comments on this article: "There has so far been no serious damage reported at five nuclear plants in northeast Japan, including the crippled Fukushima Daiichi plant, as a result of Monday's magnitude-6.6 earthquake. The order came after a 7.4 magnitude aftershock on Thursday, the biggest since the deadly March 11 quake, had temporarily disabled all three power lines supplying offsite power to Tohoku Electric Power Co's Higashidori plant, which has been shut for regular maintenance since February.(from Reuters cited above)"
 * Headline is misleading as "massive" is widely used only for the original 9.0 earthquake in Japan and has not been used for this earthquake. Sources indicate there is little resulting damage from Monday's aftershock. There is a disagreement whether it was a 7.0 or 6.6. Only the BBC source used in the article says it is a 7. The rest say 6.6. Also, it appears that although "a brief tsunami warning" was originally issued, it was canceled and was a nonevent. And sources do not indicate that this earthquake "rocked" Japan but causes little damage and that damage was in a localized area.
 * UPDATE: Strong Quake Hits Tohoku Region, Cooling To Daiichi Plant Disrupted The Wall Street Journal - 6.6
 * Strong Quake Hits Japan On One-Month Anniversary of Disaster Voice of America - 6.6
 * Japan rattled by aftershock; government expanding evacuation zone The Washington Post - 6.6
 * Japan rattled again 1 month after quake (Associated Press) in CBS News - 6.6
 * Magnitude 6.6-quake jolts Japan coast CNN - 6.6
 * Japan orders extra nuclear safety step as aftershocks jolt Reuters - 6.6

Thanks, Mattisse (talk) 13:36, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Also...have the people been rescued? The magnitude also needs updated...it was downgraded to a 6.6. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 14:30, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

There has been a second earthquake today
There has been another earthquake today, according to CNN tv, making two earthquakes today. Mattisse (talk) 00:16, 12 April 2011 (UTC)


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User talk:Ftbbot

-- 13:38, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Ftbbot


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User talk:Adrianocity

-- 13:49, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Adrianocity


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Category:Luzon

ko:분류:루손 섬

title: Category:Luzon


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User talk:Zhen Lin

-- 14:02, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Zhen Lin


text: Talk:British seaman appears in court, charged with murder after shooting on nuclear submarine


text: Comments:British seaman appears in court, charged with murder after shooting on nuclear submarine


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User talk:Randyramadhan

-- 14:28, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Randyramadhan


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User talk:Daubmir

-- 14:39, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Daubmir


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User talk:Morris1984

-- 14:43, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Morris1984


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User talk:Igallards7

-- 15:02, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Igallards7


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User talk:Isabelle87P

-- 15:05, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Isabelle87P


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User talk:Chienchiennez

-- 15:08, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Chienchiennez


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User talk:Wale wesco

-- 15:13, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Wale wesco


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Thread:Comments:Genetically modified dairy cows produce 'human milk'/Oh, dear./reply (16)

You are only partially right. Some thousands of years ago, certain races domesticated animals such as goats and cows for their meat. However, until these were slaughtered, the females of these species gave off milk, which those people realized could be given to their children instead of thrown away. Back then, only children could digest milk, but the naturally some children could digest it until a later age, and some stopped being able at an earlier age. The ones who could digest milk for longer got the benefit of the extra food (something hard to come by at the time), and thus had higher chances of spreading their milk digestion gene.

Most of the descendants of these races can digest milk until old age today, because milk gave them a higher chance of spreading their genes. If milk is unhealthy, they would have a LOWER chance of spreading the gene, and only children would be able to digest it today.


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User talk:Sandokan26

-- 15:26, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Sandokan26


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User talk:Brian McNeil/simple-php-bot

<?php

/** * Simple PHP IRC Bot * * PHP Version 5 * * LICENSE: This source file is subject to Creative Commons Attribution * 3.0 License that is available through the world-wide-web at the following URI: * http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/. Basically you are free to adapt * and use this script commercially/non-commercially. My only requirement is that * you keep this header as an attribution to my work. Enjoy! * * @category  Chat Room Scipt * @package   Simple PHP IRC Bot * @author    Super3boy  * @copyright 2010, The Nystic Network * @license   http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/ * @link      http://wildphp.com (Visit for updated versions and more free scripts!) * @version   1.0.0 (Last updated 03-20-2010) * */

//So the bot doesnt stop. set_time_limit(0); ini_set('display_errors', 'on');

//Sample connection data. $config = array(        'server' => 'chat.freenode.net',         'port'   => 6667,         'channel' => '#nystic_chat',        'name'   => 'wildphp-bot',         'nick'   => 'wildphp-bot',         'pass'   => '', );

/* //Set your connection data. $config = array(        'server' => 'example.com',         'port'   => 6667,         'channel' => '#channel',        'name'   => 'real name',         'nick'   => 'user',         'pass'   => 'pass', ); class IRCBot {

//This is going to hold our TCP/IP connection var $socket;

//This is going to hold all of the messages both server and client var $ex = array;

/*        Construct item, opens the server connection, logs the bot in         @param array

*/

function __construct($config)

{               $this->socket = fsockopen($config['server'], $config['port']); $this->login($config); $this->main($config); }

/*

Logs the bot in on the server @param array

*/

function login($config) {               $this->send_data('USER', $config['nick'].' wildphp.com '.$config['nick'].' :'.$config['name']); $this->send_data('NICK', $config['nick']); $this->join_channel($config['channel']); }

/*

This is the workhorse function, grabs the data from the server and displays on the browser

*/

function main($config) {                            $data = fgets($this->socket, 256); echo nl2br($data); flush;

$this->ex = explode(' ', $data);

if($this->ex[0] == 'PING') {                       $this->send_data('PONG', $this->ex[1]); //Plays ping-pong with the server to stay connected. }

$command = str_replace(array(chr(10), chr(13)), '', $this->ex[3]);

switch($command) //List of commands the bot responds to from a user. {                                             case ':!join': $this->join_channel($this->ex[4]); break; case ':!part': $this->send_data('PART '.$this->ex[4].' :', 'Wildphp.com Free IRC Bot Script'); break; case ':!say': $message = ""; for($i=5; $i <= (count($this->ex)); $i++) {                                       $message .= $this->ex[$i]." "; }                               $this->send_data('PRIVMSG '.$this->ex[4].' :', $message); break; case ':!restart': echo ""; exit; case ':!shutdown': $this->send_data('QUIT', 'Wildphp.com Free IRC Bot Script'); exit; }

$this->main($config); }

function send_data($cmd, $msg = null) //displays stuff to the broswer and sends data to the server. {               if($msg == null) {                       fputs($this->socket, $cmd."\r\n"); echo ' '.$cmd.' ';               } else {

fputs($this->socket, $cmd.' '.$msg."\r\n"); echo ' '.$cmd.' '.$msg.' ';               }

}

function join_channel($channel) //Joins a channel, used in the join function. {

if(is_array($channel)) {                       foreach($channel as $chan) {                               $this->send_data('JOIN', $chan); }

} else { $this->send_data('JOIN', $channel); }       }     }

//Start the bot $bot = new IRCBot($config); ?>

title: User talk:Brian McNeil/simple-php-bot


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User talk:Door1002

-- 15:34, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Door1002


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User talk:Indian1985

-- 15:35, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Indian1985


text: User talk:Brian McNeil/enWN-NewsBot webpage


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User talk:Mstfgvn

-- 15:47, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mstfgvn


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Thread:Comments:Baseball player Manny Ramirez retires after testing positive for performance-enhancing drug/Manny being Manny/reply

Another of Baseball's greatest players turns out to be nothing more than a drugged-up fraud. Yet another nail in the coffin-lid of Baseball's credability, as if there wasn't already enough to hold it closed forever.


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User talk:Stansinitsin

-- 16:04, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Stansinitsin


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User talk:Silviu filip

-- 16:10, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Silviu filip


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Thread:Comments:US government shutdown averted in last-minute deal/Comments from feedback form - "Where are the details of the A..."

Where are the details of the April 8th, 2011 CR; or more importantly, what was agreed to for the final April 14th vote to complete the 2011 budget??


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User talk:Sanaravena

-- 16:22, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Sanaravena


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User:Dendodge/Sandbox 2

_____ |    | TITLE TITLE TITLE |    | |     | Text text text text |_____| text text.

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title: User:Dendodge/Sandbox 2


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User talk:Awodwanrazc

-- 16:33, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Awodwanrazc


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User talk:Lauruse

-- 16:54, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Lauruse


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User talk:JHarrelson

-- 16:55, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:JHarrelson


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User talk:Marcinzxcvbn

-- 16:57, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Marcinzxcvbn


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User talk:Op finish them

-- 17:02, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Op finish them


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User talk:Debanjo

-- 17:03, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Debanjo


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Talk:Gbagbo detained by opposition forces and taken to meet Ouattara in Ivory Coast hotel

Seems that French forces were involved in making the arrest possible and France's role should probably be mentioned. (also the UN) e.g.
 * Ivory Coast strongman arrested after French forces intervene - The Washington Post
 * Ivory Coast's Gbagbo arrested, ending months-long standoff - The Christian Science Monitor
 * Ivory Coast's Laurent Gbagbo Captured - Voice of America
 * Forces capture Ivory Coast strongman in bunker - Associated Press

Thanks, Mattisse (talk) 17:13, 11 April 2011 (UTC)


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User talk:Nakesia Ferguson

-- 17:36, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Nakesia Ferguson


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User talk:Brad 191919191

-- 17:38, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Brad 191919191


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Passenger dies after fire in toilet on train in Bedfordshire, England; serious rail disruption

April 11, 2011

A passenger was killed Monday evening after a fire started in a washroom aboard a train near, in , England. Emergency services were called to the train, where they found the body of a female passenger who had suffered burns.

confirmed one female individual was killed in the blaze. A spokesperson said: "The deceased woman has injuries consistent with burns, no other person is believed to have been involved in the incident. Officers from the fire and ambulance services are on the scene."

The fire has caused serious disruption to trains on the. A spokesperson for said they were attempting to reopen two of the four tracks on the line as London Midland scrambled to organise a replacement bus service.

London Midland said no-one else was injured in the incident. "The fire appeared to have been in the toilet," a spokesperson said. "A passenger reported the fire to a conductor. All the other passengers got off safely."


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User talk:Qadeer294

-- 17:41, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Qadeer294


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User talk:Vbgoz

-- 17:43, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Vbgoz


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User talk:Mohamed Hendi

-- 18:01, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mohamed Hendi


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User talk:Giusi123456

-- 18:43, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Giusi123456