text:
User talk:Brian McNeil/Archive 04

 This is an archive of old talk page discussions! Do not add new comments to this page, please do so on my main talk page

Archives

Archive 01 — January 9, 2006 | Archive 02 — April 6, 2006 | Archive 03 — June 4, 2006 | Archive 04 — September 29, 2006 | Archive 05 — December 9, 2006 | Archive 06 — March 24, 2007 | Archive07 — May 30, 2007 | Archive 08 — November 4, 2007 Archive 08 — November 4, 2007 | Archive 09 — March 25, 2008

Listing a Scientology organisation on a relief page
Hello Brian, why has my organization Scientology Volunteer Ministers been removed from Europian Aid organizations? We are a very legitimate volunteer organization that offers relief to people all over the world. Please explain.
 * Scientology is not recognised as a religion and is in fact labelled as a dangerous cult in many European countries. If you wish the opinion of the community, bring the issue up on the Water Cooler --Brian McNeil / talk 09:31, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Per the US government we are a bonafide religion, as well as MANY european countries, you are completely unfounded in your accusation of my religion being a cult, and frankly its very offensive. Do you even know the definition of a cult? I'm sorry but we do not fit the description, so essentially all you're doing is religiously discriminating people trying to help those suffering from disasters. Wow. PREVIOUS UNSIGNED COMMENT BY User:Jessewpool

 * No, you aren't being discriminated against. Most European governments don't recognize Scientology as a legitimate religion and they are only recognized in the US by Proxy (and given a status given to multiple non-religious organizations).  To be a religious European aid organization, you have to be recognized as a religion there.  The US isn't European, Australia isn't European.  It's not discrimination to report fact, even if it makes your organization look bad. PREVIOUS UNSIGNED COMMENT BY User:208.145.126.6

Slight problem with an intruder
Dear Friend, Can you help?....A guy with the address 82.141.54.82 makes changes in a recent article of mine because...according to him doesn't have a neutral point of view. He cannot change it from "Published" to "Disputed" every time he/she likes, without any expressed opinion in the Talk page. It's ridiculous:) Can you put this address in blacklist? Thanks anyway. :) Zorba 00:16, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I've warned the user. It takes a little more then that to get blocked, but If he/her continues they will be blocked. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 00:21, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

ok, thank you...Zorba 00:33, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

U.S. military tribunals in Guantanamo Bay lack Congressional authorization, violate U.S. law and Geneva Conventions
Could you take a look at this article? This is an extremely important development, and has international importance. I would like to see it in one of the leads if there isn't anything current (and that includes 3rd lead). -  Amgine | talk en.WN 18:37, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Put up as second lead, you can do this yourself from the Workspace link on the left and the worst that can happen is you get reverted. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:24, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * /me smacks himself for not looking more closely at the sig, pretty sigs aren't easy to read in a diff. :-) --Brian McNeil / talk 20:36, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about the capitalization in the naming - I think I got a couple of the double redirects before you - but you're too fast for me :) 20:35, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Just one question
What's the problem with War Crimes as category ? Just too know Jacques Divol 20:51, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * because it already exists .... :) Jacques Divol 20:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The capitalisation was an issue for this article, this is a low-level crime that does not significantly involve the chain of command. As such it is covered by what little civil law exists in the area and there's actually a story in the fact that the report wasn't passed on.  I gave examples of similar subject material that's covered with Crime and law plus Human rights, I don't think we need a new category, but if we have one then I've added a few articles from last month that fit - by my understanding of the term.  I'd rather see the category go away as it strikes me as creeping towards being encyclopedic, with the associated "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" debates about what categories are appropriate for controverial articles. --Brian McNeil / talk 21:07, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

IWWC
Hi Brian, I have guessed that the IWWC has ended now (from my calculations Jason has ran out of jokers). Our two judges are away and I thought that as you are the one providing the prizemoney that you might like to continue the judging :) - Cartman02au (Talk)(AU Portal) 09:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * If that's what you want to do that is OK, I think there was meant to be a split but can't recall the details. In anycase, the competition should be finished - my calculations are that all over competitors ran out of jokers.
 * Thats the right split, so it should be me 33.30, Jason 22.20 and PVJ 11.10. My paypal is magnaboy@westnet.com.au :)
 * My PayPal is prasad59@gmail.com Thanks. ;-) PVJ [[Image:Flag of India.svg|25px]]  (Talk)(Opinions) 16:54, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the prize and your kind comments. I am going to take a break from article writing (I am a little burned out at present) for a week or so and shall return then :) - Cartman02au (Talk)(AU Portal) 01:32, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Unhappy with standards
I'm unhappy. I want to be happy. I understand PVJ is upset that I want to take his administrator privileges away but there is no need for bad behaviour in front of other members of the community. PVJ has now thrown accusations around that I am "aggressive" and "rude" when I am neither. I have made no personal attacks in working space or been rude as you can see here http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Talk:Israel:_%22Entering_southern_Lebanon_to_search_for_Israeli_soldiers%22 It is not fair on me as a wikinews contributor to continue to work and take this abuse from someone with the status of "administrator" - whose status is under review. I understand PVJ has your full confidence and that is why I am bringing this to your attention. I really hate doing this but as a trained journalist you might realise I'm very unhappy and frustrated with PVJ's behaviour and basic level of journalistic understanding. Ealturner 18:05, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I will have words with PJV to try and help bring some resolution to this situation. I know how easy it is to get entrenched in a particular position and start firing pot-shorts at each other.  To my mind you are both good contributors, and whilst you hold wildly different political viewpoints you both want to see the project succeed.  I'd like to see all the dispute on RfDA vanish and a simple discussion over the points where you disagreed.  I intervened on the followup article to offer some structure to title changes and, whilst the result was like herding cats, a conflict was avoided.
 * Please continue any discussion over the conflict where you'd like me to referee here, remember I've not looked at all the diffs and absorbed all the talk page discussions, I just want to see people reach some understanding of each other so they can more effectively communicate. --Brian McNeil / talk 18:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Brianmc, thank you for doing this. It is good of you to go out of your way and give time to help resolve this issue. While I remain convinced PVJ is far away from an "administrator" level I am prepared to forgive his mistakes. I'd like PVJ to know I'm on his side as I want to work with him. I like the fact people come at the world from another angle and spot things I don't. So just because we disagree sometimes does not mean I necessarily object to PVJ as an administrator or writer. I'm convinced people with POV can write NPOV way. I'm sure PJV can do his POV justice if he learns being NPOV requires a methodology that can spot POV rather than a particular set of beliefs. I'm sorry if you already know this; feel free to shoot me down. Trying to get off on a constructive footing. PVJ feel free to give me your view on how I can help. Ealturner 18:54, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I have an interesting background when it comes to discussion forums on the Internet, and from reading PVJ's comments on Ealturner's talk page and elsewhere, I'd say he does not have that experience. I don't think we should force him to spend six months on Usenet to learn how to state his position without upsetting people, but on the other hand I think as an administrator PVJ has to be more forgiving in what he recieves (per RFCs. :-)). --Brian McNeil / talk 19:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Whether one "upsets people" is indeed relevant to one's fitness as an administrator. Administrators are a representative of wikinews to wider public. We need to encourage people not put them off; criticisms must be contructive, show how the individual can improve. But perhaps just as relevant as one's tact is whether one knows what the role of administrator actually requires. Evidence so far is PVJ combines an ability to upset with what even his supporters have admitted is a "still learning" approach to his administration duties. Ealturner 20:08, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Brian, thanks for taking this on. My own observation has been that Ealturner is a prolific productive contributor but sometimes (not always) very,very difficult to work with collaberatively and I can provide difs to show that if need be. My point is that the discussion should not be focused on PVJ,imo, but rather more of a typical dispute resolution procedure where the 2 of them can resolve their issues and maybe BOTH of them learn how to contribute more peacefully and less confrontatively.Neutralizer 22:24, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

 * //very,very difficult to work with collaberatively and I can provide difs to show that if need be.// Can you show this? Sometimes I find you very difficult. These may be the same times :) Such as times when you try to shoehorn reality to fit your definitions, such as calling a week or so raid of Israel an "invasion". Or when PVJ puts explicit prisoner abuse images from an Abu Graibh article in an article not about Abu Graibh, prisoners, abuse etc. Just because someone's an administrator that does not mean they're right. If you want I will teach you how to hold a neutral point of view. There's a specific way and anyone can do it. Ealturner 23:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

A brief synopsis of events
 * I first ran into Ealturner on the discusssion-page of the Iraq rape article. On the talk-page, thnigs got a bit heated and I made a rather rude comment to a user asking him if he was "mentally" capable" of understanding the points I was trying to make. After this, an edit-war ensued which resulted in both Ealturner and me being eventually blocked for 17 or so hours. I subsequently apologised to Ealturner and admitted that as an Administrator, I should have maintained my cool. Ealturner went on to put an RfDA against me citing various reasons as to why I am not fit to hold this position. Among those justifications was the fact that I display my "political manifesto" on my userpage. This in itself seems irregular as opinions-pages are ofen used and do not reflect on one's capabilities as an Administrator. After this, I ran into Ealturner on the Israel article, where he was referring to another other user's choice of title as "ugly". Here I once again reminded him of the importance on civility. I have so far not used my Administrator status to affect him in any way and all my advice to him has been given in a polite, civil manner. PVJ(Talk)[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|25px]] 01:24, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I meant "ugly" in a gramatical sense. Israel;Entering... doesn't exactly look right together does it? It's wrong: that's what I meant by "ugly," it was wrong. Sorry if that choice of word was offensive to you but it was a way to make a grammatical point, no harm intended. That is in fact a good example where you have overreacted to inappropriately censure someone, creating a hostile atmosphere where there was none.

 * Though I'm constantly at his throat with his inappropriate use of the English Language I'm getting on a bit better with Neutralizer. We've worked together in the Israel/Hezbollah thread and on some points achieved a little mutual understanding.

 * There were three reasons I cited why I did not think you were doing your job. You have addressed one of my issues, partially. By partially I mean your beliefs and opinions page was an example of what I called your POV bias. There are other examples. But, if I remember, as user Cspurrior said, the main thrust of my complaint was that you misused your powers. Do you admit you misused your powers and that was wrong? Ealturner 02:23, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Neutralizer 3rr title violation
Here

On the day after concensus reached. Against protests in discussion. Ealturner 13:04, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Please also note Neutralise "NPOV'd" this article. There were no complaints for hours before the article was made top headline.

Neutralizer calls the title "Totally 1 sided as well as inflammatory and sensationalist"

The title is "Israeli railroad station bombed. 8 killed, 23 injured"

Please do something about this individual. He is making work impossible. I don't want to leave but I will not take much more of this. Ealturner 13:34, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

PVJ: Harassment notice; four reverts; edit protected page II
PVJ left a harassment notice on my talk page.

I find this unnecessary. My second request for deadministration was based on the fact he broke the three revert rule. This is a third abuse to add to his previous two abuses. The de-admin request was removed by another admin, Amgine, who said PVJ had abused his editor privilege. When I made the request I was not aware of the difference. To abuse the rules of wikinews when one is an administrator is surely to abuse one's position as administrator also? The let off for his two administrator abuses has emboldened him. Ealturner 17:44, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Four reverts Civilian casualties increase as Israel-Hezbollah conflict continues. Ealturner 18:08, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

The above page was protected by an administrator because PVJ broke the three revert rule. Now PVJ has since edited the protected page to leave the following

"Sysops please note:This article has been protected due to edit-warring."

Since the protected page was disabled to editors there was no need to edit it. It is another example - the fourth - of PVJ abusing his administrator powers. Ealturner 19:45, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Audiences and Independent Journalists in Eurasia lose another Voice of America outlet for exchanging views with the U.S.
Hello Brian,

I have removed sources from the body of the article and placed them at the end. Regards (Tedlipien 00:50, 17 July 2006 (UTC).)

Nice work on the Israel/Lebanon info box
Looks really sharp; best yet,imo. Neutralizer 19:27, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I expected it to become a focus of disputes, but instead everyone is using it properly. Whaddya know, sometimes a well-intentioned contribution has more value than you initially thought. :-) --Brian McNeil / talk 20:59, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Light aircraft makes emergency landing in major industrial estate
Note: Valleysnews has since apologized for the legal threat he has made below. —     21:49, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

You have removed the image displayed without first having consulted me. While this is perhaps the whole idea behind WikiNews, i.e. the ability for users to create and edit new stories, I firmly believe that you have completely over-stepped the mark by accusing me of copyright violation.

As deputy editor of VTV (the source of the image), I am authorised to distribute any and all media images, stories, etc. as part of my employment. Furthermore, I actually created the image concerned for use in the VTV Wales subscription e-mail service.

I have written consent, from my employer, to distribute such media and would advise you to refrain from accusing me of copyright violation, as such an allegation is potentially damaging and at best, libellous.

Had you even bothered to first ask me the source of the image, I would have advised you of my authority to distribute the image. Instead, you decided to act unilaterally and without good reason.

I am putting the file back on the page and if you further persist in accusing me of being in breach of copyright laws, I shall seek legal recourse. UNSIGNED COMMENT BY User:Valleysnews
 * If you created the image change it to CC-By as the copyright message or send me a legitimate email from an address at your employer along with a press contact email address whereby I can verify you have the right to make the claims you are making. Otherwise I'll assume you're making legal threats and block you for waving your appendage in public.  Oh, and read the welcome message, it's nice to sign your comments so I know who to flame. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:29, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Valleysnews has been warned for his/her legal threat. —     19:40, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Valleysnews apologises
See User talk:Messedrocker. —     21:46, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Not sure of all that is going on there behind the scenes. People do have a way way of making their intentions known, that's what's important. -Edbrown05 21:57, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

VTV licence
Hi Brian. I have just spoken with Simon Goodall, CEO of VTV and Katherine Bartlet, Head of News at VTV Wales and she has agreed to release any and all images, as well as related articles, to WikiNews as public domain and free of copyright.

The reason for this is simple; VTV Wales is one of the region's largest subscription news providers and although we rely on continued business, from our clients, we feel that news stories which have a broad, national and international appeal, should be made available to the public, free of charge.
 * Can I, or some other trusted person (accredited or administrator) have an email on this from a believeable address with a legal contact to confirm this? It's really that simple, and anything else you say on the site doesn't matter a whit. --Brian McNeil / talk 22:13, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I have already given you Katherine's postal address. However, I do understand that you wish to receive an e-mail from her and to that end, I will ask her to confirm her and Robert Goodall's authorisation by e-mail to you. You may have to wait until tomorrow though, as both of them are probably tucked up in their beds right now.

Re: Eeep! No!
Done :-) --Jambalaya 22:23, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

canadian deaths
i've made some changes to Four children among six Canadians killed in Israeli attack on Lebanon. cld u take a look and leave any comments u may have. thnx, Doldrums 18:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Good edit here
Thanks. For the thoughtful effort. -Edbrown05 07:02, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * But what does that paragraph mean now, anything? I get cotton candy at the ballpark where who wins or loses doesn't matter. I didn't know news was about cotton candy. -Edbrown05 07:08, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't quite get this, and I do think it is important that wikinews shouldn't care who wins or loses. What I couldn't find was a clear reference to link Hezbollah to Syria and thus link them into the conflict.  So what you have is a sourced piece of background where before it was someone's opinion on the conflict's background. --Brian McNeil / talk 07:17, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Brian, I've been grouchy and a bit angry during my recent visits to this site for reasons that have to do with nothing of the goings on here... so sorry that my 2nd comment above came out the way it did. I didn't care to continue pursuing a Hezbollah/Syria/Iran connection because I wasn't fully confident, and remain so, that a scenario ventured by this article was anything more than a media being spun. However, something in my gut tells me the article speaks some truth. If major global players get sucked into this Israel-Lebanon mess, which is seeming by each day less likely, it would or could be World War III. Best regards, -Edbrown05 07:03, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I wouldn't be surprised if some intrepid reporter dug up clear details linking some of the Arab nations to supporting Hezbollah, but the problem is that the accusations that this is the case are all embedded in blogs and finding the one that actually sources the allegation in a way we can use is a nightmare. Before you find it you're convinced the world is full of conspiracy theorists or you've bought the conspiracy theory.  What troubles me is the people who primarilly rely on blogs then try to write here, even if they try to go to sources there is still the underlying decision on which side of a dispute is right that the blog - in its effort to get readers - usually has adopted. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:51, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello Brian,

Sorry, but I didn't quite understand your message to me. Could you please elaborate?

Thanks very much, Mick.

Mick 20:52, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Thank you
Thank you very much for your kind comments, Brian. As for the negative comments I've received, I see them as constructive criticism so it's all good!

Adding fuel to the fire?
Brianmc, with the recent conflicts going on throughout Wikinews, comments like "tough shit" only add fuel to the fire. It is in the best interest of Wikinews if these conflicts are put behind us and we all work TOGETHER to make this a better news source. MyName 23:22, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

See: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Special:Log/delete
 * Yes, but if you count how many revisions were restored that's how many times I had clicked to restore one, there were thousands more and I'd probably still be at it now. If a mechanism to select all then de-select the offending edits is introduced I will fix the situation.  Otherwise people should archive their talk page in some manner. --Brian McNeil / talk 09:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Dispute Resolution Step 2
Hi, I have begun the Dispute Resolution process with you,Brian. I attempted step 1 by "avoidance" and have now moved to Step 2, the talk page. I feel confident that we can deal with this without going past step 2; at least I hope so. May I suggest that we not be too abrasive or hurtful in our comments? My only suggestion is that we try to stay away from each other. Some of your comments toward me both in article discussions and elsewhere are quite personal and assumptive as to my motives or what you claim is an "agenda". If what you say has any merit, I am sure other editors will notice and get involved so perhaps you could allow them that role. Chiacomo, for example, misses very little and he is able to criticize and/or edit without using "fuck you" or "tough shit" in his edit summaries. When you are at the point of permanently deleting edits of many editors because of some alleged song lyrics copyvio (not sure if you ever decided who,if anyone,held the copyright) then I think your apparent obsession with me has gone too far and is,in fact, an abuse of administrative authority,imo.
 * Let me begin by suggesting, Maybe you and I can avoid each other? Neutralizer 13:23, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Posting the lyrics of an entire song is a copyright violation, period. As you can see here the Recording Industry is activly cracking down on sites which offer lyrics. As you know very well, to keep Wikimedia out of legal harm we have to delete copyright infringments as soon as we take notice of them. Alleging an "abuse of administrative authority" on Brian's part is preposterous. --Deprifry|+T+ 13:46, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Brian's "tough shit" edit summary along with his permanent removal of many other non-problem edits made by many different editors is the abuse I refer to.
 * "22:12, 24 July 2006 Brianmc (Talk | contribs) restored "User talk:Neutralizer" (628 revisions restored: tough shit there's a pile missing, should have archived before you introduced a copyvio)"
 * I will not be distracted. My purpose here is step 2 DR. so I prefer to have this discussion with Brian. If my choice of words above is a problem then I can strike them if Brian strikes his "tough shit" wording on the edit summary; Actually that might be a good way to get going on a constructive DR. Neutralizer 14:55, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I am sorry that the edit summary offends you, and as I have stated above I will remedy the situation if a mechanism to select all is made available and I can then de-select the edits containing the copyvio. None of the other administrators attempted to remove the copyvio because I think they realised how horrid a task it would be and, after clicking 628 tiny little checkboxes I gave up. --Brian McNeil / talk 15:25, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I understand; just for clarification; do quotes from copyrighted material also create a copyvio? Also, what do you think we can do to help reduce the friction that I think we have between us ? Perhaps the "friction" is just my imagination but, in any event, I would like us to get along better. Neutralizer 17:05, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I suspect the friction between us is a bit of mutual distrust and suspicion, for the copyvio all versions containing the copyvio text have to go. What should have happened is you cut the copyvio and I deleted the page and restored all the versions leaving the comments and some indication of what was deleted, but it really is a horror story to do that with a never-archived high-traffic talk page.  I suspect MessedRocker did his own form for the restore that had all checkboxes set and the offending edits could be de-selected.
 * For avoiding future conflict, I don't know. I have pretty much come to the conclusion that a news-based wiki is going to see conflict on a regular basis and people need to take things a little less personally.  My "tough shit" comment was meant in the vein of "if you had to do this job you'd do just what I did", not as an insult. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Quoting copyright material is fine, as long as you have some basis whereby you can say it is "fair use", and a limited selection from the source material. So, you could have quoted a couple of lines from the song, and as is sort-of common round here sourced to the original author (I don't care which blood-sucking member of the RIAA currently owns the copyright).  --19:52, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, what I simply did was determined the versions with the copyright infringement, not selected those, and selected all the other ones manually. It was tiring, but that's what I wanted (I needed to go to sleep early that night). The subsequent messages that were added while the copyright infringement was on the page were manually restored by myself. —     20:15, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you deserve a merit badge for masochism for that Messedrocker. :-) --Brian McNeil / talk 20:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Step 2 DR; suggestion #1.
Brian, perhaps you can strike your "tough shit" edit summary and advise me if I have said anything to you which you would like me to strike? Neutralizer 14:55, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Edit summaries are not currently editable in the database. -  Amgine | talk en.WN 20:03, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Ok; thanks for info. Neutralizer 23:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I'll just accept Brian's view that there will always be some conflict and we'll just plow ahead as best we can; That works for me, especially as I now see the "tough shit" wasn't used by Brian in the way I assumed it was....assumptions really do suck (at least assumptions I make seem to always be wrong or largely wrong). Neutralizer 23:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Re: Portugal receives Russian aerial firefighting airplane
Hi Brian,

The error seems to be due to a lost of text during an revision of the article. The numbers in the article were from an article in Portuguese, which cited the book "Portugal: o vermelho e o negro" ("Portugal: the red and the black") by Pedro Almeida Vieira. The article cites 3.2 million hectares as the amount of existent forest in 1995, and states one fifth was destroyed in only then years (1995-2005). The other 2.5 million hectares correspond to the existing forest in 2005.

Thank you and best regards. -- Get_It 22:14, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

why this revert?
any particular reason for reverting Fidel Castro temporarily hands power to his brother Raul. it was a legitimate edit, in case u thought it was vandalism or link spamming or some-such. Doldrums 18:45, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I saw the weird domain, checked the site and it looked garish and I reverted. Now I look again I see it is a .cu domain, so the only thing I'd ask before saying undo my revert is, how long will the material stay on their site? --Brian McNeil / talk 18:51, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
 * hmmm, but, on the other hand, it is the source "closer to home". Doldrums 18:53, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

apollo tapes
shall we unprotect the talk page? i have left a note on the user talk page about not refactoring/removing comments on the talk page & deprifry has asked the user for some info about the article. Doldrums 16:44, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Talk pages are not protected when you protect the article, so it never has been protected. --Brian McNeil / talk 16:48, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * oops! mistook the edit summary of ur talk page edit noting the article protection. Doldrums 16:50, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Just saying hi
Hello there!

waw, Europe is represented by the UK and Belgium! I'm from Belgium too, where exactly are you from and do you speak Dutch or French?

I was wondering if you could give me some advice about writing about news from Belgium: I've made some contributions about Kim Gevaert but I wonder how far I can go in reporting about Belgian news...

hope to cu around, grtz --Stevenfruitsmaak 12:39, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Thought that planets article was a long one eh...--Steven Fruitsmaak (Talk) 10:59, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes I want to write in-depth articles on scientific (and other) subjects. But it's difficult to balance this with writing for the Average Reader, I'm still strugling at this point.--Steven Fruitsmaak (Talk) 16:35, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

can u come on/are u on IRC?
Doldrums 16:34, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Joined but you got disconnected - can't stay long either. --Brian McNeil / talk 18:08, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
 * its pretty much been sorted out (Admin action alerts). Doldrums 18:38, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Re:sources
So is it ok if I only use it for non-news sources, like scientific journals, CDC.gov-sources,...? I do it cause I come from Wikipedia of course.

I also find it rather frustrating that you're obliged to use the newspaper-template to cite any source, even if it isn't a newspaper. I'd prefer if I could use a more scientific referencing system for scientific sources.

I understand your concern but I think the challenge is to just make a good article. Anyway I'd expect people to read wikinews not because their looking to read the same story on another newssite. Thx anyway for the advice I'm still learning...--Stevenfruitsmaak 11:24, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

 * So is it ok if I only use footnotes for non-news sources, like scientific journals, CDC.gov-sources,...? The benefit is easier fact-checking, and I think it is unlikely readers will click away to read a statement of the surgeon-general...
 * And what if the newspaper source is not about the general subject of the article, but about something that is only a side-issue, is it ok to use in-text footnotes then?
 * Is there a policy or guideline about this topic I should read that you're referring to?--Stevenfruitsmaak 11:34, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

 * I'll try to respect existing conventions, but I think it's different because it's kind of scientific news. If you want everything to be referenced, than maybe there should be some exceptions to the unwritten rule of not using footnotes but only sources. I like that system, on Wikipedia it gives you a good distinction between sources you've used for the general article, and sources you've used to check specific facts. I'd like to keep using it because it has advantages I think, and I don't think many people will click away if there are enough footnotes also to different kinds of non-newsarticle-resources. But maybe there are other reasons or if you oppose strongly to it, I'll drop it.
 * Instructions can be easier for new guys like me :-) .--Steven Fruitsmaak (Talk) 11:50, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Great work
Hey Brianmc

You are doing a great work on the german Wikinews. Thank you for setting all the interwiki. If you didn't do it, we would have do deal with it. Greetings from Germany. Tilmandralle 15:35, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not picking up all the languages though, just trying to make a start on it. I've done jan-mar '05 and '06 on en., jan-mar '06 on sv., and jan-mar '06 on de.  I'm going to take a break before doing es. and fr. :-) --Brian McNeil / talk 15:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe we should programme a bot for that purpose, shouldn't we? Greetings, Tilmandralle 21:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
 * It should be two bots - one to fix all existing cats, one to do a new day creation. This is part of the reason I've been doing it across various wikis.  I can work out most of what needs done, but I don't have the tools at my disposal to automate the process.  If someone who knows how to automate the process sees me doing it, they may be prompted to help.  Anyway, if f there's someone on the German wiki can code up a bot to do this I think all wikis would accept it.  I suspect it is more than just wikinews that needs a new day creation bot, many pictures in commons and articles in wikipedia should have a specific date category. --Brian McNeil / talk 22:00, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

is this ok?
have not removed par box and unrelated "apartheid" comment from Chavez equates Israel invasion of Lebanon and occupation of Palestine with Nazi oppression of Jews prior to archiving. Doldrums 07:54, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I combined the two pars boxes into one and moved it into the sources. --Brian McNeil / talk 07:58, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Re:archiving
i'll try and do the cleanup soon after publish, that way, i think i'll be able to copyedit a little more freely. i also have this thing about ordering cats in this way: topical cats first, 'location' regional cat and other regions involved. for each of the three, the more specific category precedes the top-level one. Doldrums 05:26, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Locked article
Hi,

could you add Category:Science and technology to Study says dogs can smell lung and breast cancer?

--Steven Fruitsmaak (Talk) 17:36, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you give the whole thing a check? I did the move of inline links to sources as well and... well it was a lot, I'd like you to make sure I've not lost anything or left dupe sources. --Brian McNeil / talk 18:35, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * You haven't, thanks a lot. But now I've got another request: could you change the references to the ones that are waiting in my sandbox? I've used Template:Source-science to cite the scientific articles.--Steven Fruitsmaak (Talk) 16:23, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

BBC News
i don't think it's "Online", as far as i can see from the the main page, the contact page and the about page. they all list just say BBC News. Doldrums 19:28, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The difference is the wikilink you get in the template, that's why I keep changing it. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:52, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

AWB!?
Where did you get a version of AWB that works with Wikinews? I want it! —     07:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * That doesn't answer my question! :( —     07:23, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Is that for the specific Wikinews edition of AWB? —     07:27, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Welcome messages
Users - regular users - also welcome new users that didn't make any edits. F e  llow  Wiki  News   (W)  20:47, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * As I said, I used to. If I see other people doing it immediately after an account is created I'll give them the same suggestion - don't do it until the user has made an edit and you can decide which welcome is appropriate. --Brian McNeil / talk 20:50, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay. F  e  llow  Wiki  News   (W)  20:56, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Revert of Neutralizer
I noticed that you reverted one of Neutralizer's edits. If it violates his parole (outlined here), be sure to warn him. —     21:05, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Kofi Annan to appoint secret mediator for Israeli soldier release negotiations
Hi, couple of things. How do the tenplates screw up in FF? In mine it looks fine (on a 17" screen and smaller)., it may well juet be the template ordering! See the other Israeli article today - does that do the same thing? As to a second source it is very recent news from reuters so might take a while to get throught to other news agencies - AP have not yet got an article up so CNN, BBC etc,. wont have much for at least an hour :D --Errant 19:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok got a rewritten version from agency that feed from reuters raw reports. Will that be ok? I published again but pull it back if not. Ill search come more. --Errant 19:21, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * oops sorry I meant it was an AP feed. The AP report should surface soon now :D --Errant 19:29, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * The two templated don't overlap on the other article, but it looks ugly having them against each other and a step down on the right side of the page. I'm using a 19" 1280x1024 monitor, but I never have my browser window fullscreen.
 * From a personal point of view I'd prefer to actually see the breaking template reserved for things that will develop significantly over a period of hours and have serious interest. As an example, the Buncefield depot explosion.  In a case like the Annan "secret" negotiator I'd prefer to see an hour or two delay for collaboration and additional research.  I don't like seeing articles with a publish tag bouncing from one title to another as details become more clear.
 * Two sources minimum is an unwritten rule that we're discussing making more formal. Likely result is some vaguely worded guidelines stating the longer the article the more sources are required.
 * And as a last point, you might want to grab the Google toolbar or some other Firefox plugin that has a spell checker, I think I saw a typo or two in there. ;-) --Brian McNeil / talk 19:40, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Typos are a something ypoo'll have to put up with with me Im afraid - mild dyslexia and the inability to use simple tools (eg google toolbar) are major failings :D Anyway I will clean it up - I see what you mean though about the breaking template too, I will use it less often in the future.
 * As to the surcing, 2 articles can be ok but it is possible to get a story off reuters like that up to 2 hrs before it gets reported anywhere else (although the BBC ttend to be quick in putting up a stub). I see the thinking though. Is there a policy discussion about it somewhere I can join in? --Errant 19:48, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
 * See the Water cooler for all sorts of discussion on how things should operate. The specific discussion on minimum sources is at /policy#Sources Policy. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:55, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

archivin August 29
hi, just to let u know that i've cleaned up for archiving, articles from 2 to F in the list in cat:August 29. however, FBI most-wanted fugitive, polygamist Warren Jeffs, arrested needs a date-bump or needs stuff taken out. i've noted the same in the summary and have not done either. Doldrums 04:31, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Blocked User
In fact one of the users had wrote humiliating remarks for the admin (myself) in the Sandbox, without signing in. I had blocked the IP and not the user ID. I have already unblock his IP address after he sent me an appology on my personal email. 193.52.94.40 07:24, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

Re:Template.
Thanks for the hint. Also, please don't take any diagreement between us on issues at the Watercooler personally. :-)PVJ(Talk) 01:22, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't, and hope you don't either - we just see things differently --Brian McNeil / talk 06:22, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Kindly help me know how to ...
Kindly help know how to have following options in Sindhi Wikipedia which one finds in English Wikipedia at the bottom of every page:

Insert: – — … ° ≈ ± − × ÷ ← → · § Sign your name: 193.52.94.40 13:10, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

But I would like to have these in Sindhi.

193.52.94.40 13:10, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm going to note this here on my talk page (if you create an account here it'll be easier, I only recently discovered how to do this. Here on wikinews it would be Special:allpages where you'd look for MediaWiki:Edittools, this uses <charinsert>, example:

<charinsert>Á á É é Í í Ó ó Ú ú Ý ý</charinsert> ·

<charinsert>—Brian McNeil / talk 14:18, 10 September 2006 (UTC)</charinsert ·

Editing messages can be odd, if you haven't overridden the default you're presented with a blank page, it would be a very good idea to copy the default text listed on wikipedia:sd:Special:allpages when you want to edit wikipedia:sd:Special:Edittools (unfortunately this last link doesn't work - you'll have to pick one off the allpages link that corresponds. --Brian McNeil / talk 14:18, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Featured story?
The current one on obesity is a bit outdated, may I suggest Extremely drug-resistant tuberculosis strain emerges in South Africa? I've worked a lot on it myself so I don't want to change it myself, if you concur could you tell me or change it? Thanks, --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 11:45, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

collapsing disputed and developing
I disagree with this change on the main page. I look at the disputed and developing stories to see if I can contribute. To me they are as important as the published articles. TRWBW 12:40, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
 * 'Moving comment to talk of main page. --Brian McNeil'' / talk 12:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Nazi Pope
It was decided yesterday on the talk-page of that article that we need not hide the Pope's Nazi background or his previous abusive comments against Islam. Since you were not involved in that discussion, please do not revert my changes without providing adequate justifications on the talk-page. PVJ(Talk) 12:00, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Note also that it has been mentioned that membership in that organisation was "compulsory" at the time, and that Ratzinger was an "unwilling" member. PVJ(Talk)[[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|25px]] 12:02, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Please read WN:WEASEL which I linked to it was an absolutely awful way of putting that, and it implied that the Pope made comments critical of Islam because of that aspect of his background. If you cannot show there is a link you should not be implying there is one. --Brian McNeil / talk 13:07, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I do not respect this (Nazi) man or the religion he represents, so I do not feel the need to retract my statements. As for "devout" Catholics being offended by my comments, I too am offended by what the Nazi has to say about the Prophet. The "Kommandant" part was possibly erroneous however, since I doubt whether he was competent enough to be promoted to that rank. PVJ(Talk)(Articles I have written) [[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|25px]] 13:29, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Whilst you are entitled to your opinion that the man is not worthy of respect, you still have to respect the position of authority he has been put in by the Catholic church. If you can't keep your opinions in check, you should avoid contributing to articles where the man is mentioned. --Brian McNeil / talk 14:21, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I have already told you that I am not a Catholic, so I couldn't care less about any position of authority this man may have been put in, be it by the Catholic church or the Nazi party. We have had to put up with a lot of Islamophobia, and this was the last straw. As I have already mentioned, I will not be writing any more articles for some time to come. PVJ(Talk)(Articles I have written) [[Image:Flag_of_India.svg|25px]] 14:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Belgian terrorism suspects remain in custody as case details emerge
Hi, I'm new to Wikinews and a little confused by the note you placed on the above article. Why can't material be copied from Wikipedia? Seabhcan 17:14, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Welcome to Wikinews! The reason we can't have stuff copied to Wikinews is because we want as many Original contributions as we can. This will help increase our reputation. Plus, we can't have ©ed material on Wikinews. Thunderhead (talk) 06:32, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, please see my comment on the article's talk page, there are certain license incompatibilties between Wikipedia and Wikinews. --Brian McNeil / talk 08:15, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Collapsible
Could you make the various weird list boxes on the right collapsible, and restore the developing stories to that column? They're completely useless so far down on the page, so it makes little sense to have them collapsible there. -  Amgine | m 21:57, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I've done an alternative design that shortens the page enough to make the developing and disputed more accessible. What do you think?  It'd involve getting Craig's bot to do the Latest news that way. --Brian McNeil / talk 15:34, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

 * That could be done... too bad the collapsed dates must be full-column width but I can't think how to avoid that. (of course, to be honest I'd still rather see the tool higher up on the right column, but that's not necessarily better for readers.) -  Amgine | m 02:41, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

nice work with the collapsible boxes. i like the idea of using them on the main page. i do have a slightly different set of things which i want to make collapsible, though: This day last year, older Latest news days, sister projects and wikinews in other languages, possibly the regional portal links (we might be able to add topical portal links to the main page too, that way), OR and interviews (keeping the latest one (or very recent ones) visible, hiding older ones). making the disputed and developing boxes both the same length by hiding part of whichever is longer. in short, a big fat main page redesign... Doldrums 07:33, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 * can u get on to IRC? Doldrums 07:48, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Accreditation requests
Hey, leave your vote at Accreditation requests. Thanks! terinjokes User Page / Talk 10:05, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Re:Interwiki
My idea and you are the same. I also think interwiki links is important. I'll leave message on Water cooler of Chinese Wikinews and Wikipedia board of PTT(Most Taiwan wikipedian and some Hong Kong wikipedian like to discuss on this board.).--Yoshi 17:25, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

World Wars lowered New Zealanders life expectancy
You changed the above article from World Wars lowered New Zealand's life expectancy moved to World Wars lowered New Zealanders life expectancy. Your reason to do so was this "It didn't lower the life expectancy of the country, but of its residents. I'd use Kiwis, but I'm not sure if that is restricted to the Ab". By Ab do you mean the All Blacks and if so, the answer is no. No it is not restricted to just the AB's. --Nzgabriel | Article list | Talk 20:44, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
 * My much more verbose comment that the wiki software cut off was "Aborigine people". Basically is anyone and everyone in NZ a "Kiwi", or are there restrictions on the term.  If possible I would have preferred to use World Wars lowered Kiwis life expectancy as a shorter title, the reason I didn't was that I was unsure it was correct usage of the term. --Brian McNeil / talk 20:59, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

 * So yes, if you are a New Zealander then you are also called, colloquially, a Kiwi. --Nzgabriel | Article list | Talk 03:58, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Portal:Ottawa, Ontario
I really don't think that merits the geo-portal treatment, after all the lead you've put up is months old. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:09, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, it's the capital of my country, and portals encourage people from the area to take an active role in Wikinews, since they think "they love my town!", which is always good. Don't worry, I don't plan to create more portals anytime soon. --  Zanimum 19:23, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If you can get it kept up to date, good on you. I think I'd customise it a little to de-emphasise the lack of a full city news team to put new stuff up. --Brian McNeil / talk 19:29, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Could you do me a favour and delete these?
They're my userspace subpages which should be deleted.

 * User:Amgine
 * User talk:Amgine
 * User:Amgine/Evidences
 * User:Amgine/Latest news
 * User:Amgine/Talk page archives
 * User:Amgine/Userbox guideline draft
 * User talk:Amgine/Userbox guideline draft
 * User:Amgine/WMF accounts
 * User:Amgine/Wikinews ads
 * User talk:Amgine/Wikinews ads
 * User:Amgine/monobook.js
 * User:Amgine/notes
 * User:Amgine/sandbox
 * User:Amgine/sandbox/Brief

-  Amgine | m 21:20, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Someone beat me to it. --Brian McNeil / talk 08:14, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

opinion on copyvio
cld u take a look at Death penalty for sex offender, in USA/Temp. it appears to me to be a copyvio of the cnn source, slightly better than the currently blanked original article (i.e., the non-/Temp article). i'd like another opinion on this. thanks, Doldrums 08:41, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

dyn nav
short answers are no. no. i can't figure out why it should behave differently on the same version of Fx on different machines. Doldrums 16:58, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

AWB
hi, thanks for the tip. am currently not using AWB as i don't have whatever flavour of .Net thingy it needs. when (if) i ever feel up to downloading and installing that, then mebbe... but thanks for reminding, anyway.

btw, (asking u this since u've done archiving for a long time) any ideas on how we can do better than what we do now - catch bugs in articles a fortnight after it gets published? Doldrums 14:50, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

RE:One Question
I requested a rename. Do I have to change my preference's again, or will my name just be changed? Thunderhead (talk) 17:17, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Brian McNeil/Archive 04


text:
Talk:IBM Releases 500 patents to open source community

I left it as Jan 12, 2005 story since it points to that category. vlsimpson 00:56, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I moved it to today's date since it was done today. vlsimpson 02:51, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Talk:Finland, Canada named among world's most-fit nations

Anyone know what source the unnamed "health experts" are referring to that put Canada and Finland at the top?

Not a crucial point perhaps, but I noticed the quote about fatty food is possibly incorrect. The word order is different when compared to the Guardian's quote, and there is no exclamation mark at the end. Tomos 15:28, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I also noticed that 65% decrease is not about death from heart problems, but cardiovascular heart desease, if the Guardian article is correct. Tomos 15:30, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I'll belive this one I see it.
I'm from Canada. I don't think We're that fit. This isn't to say that this isn't techninclly correct, I just don't belive it.Bawolff ☺☻ 23:55, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


text:
Ariel Sharon gives 'free hand' to military for crack-down

January 16, 2005

Just seven days after the election of the new Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has ordered his military today to perform a new crackdown on Palestinian militants in resonse to another set of attacks on Israelis.

Now Sharon has told his military to "take any action needed without restriction". Sharon said: "Despite the change in Palestinian leadership, we have yet to see them taking any action against terror."

This follows Thursday's killing of six Israelis in an attack on a Gaza Strip crossing point. As a result, the Israeli government cut all communications with Abbas.

Yesterday Palestinians fired rockets into Israeli territory, injuring two people. In response, Israeli troops mounted raids into the Gaza Strip, killing eight Palestinian terrorists.

Mahmoud Abbas was elected on a platform of curbing the activities of the terrorists and pursuing peace with Israel.


text:
Talk:Capture of FARC member creates severe crisis between Venezuela and Colombia

General Discussion
'''Note: This article needs some work. My principal problem for now is written it in proper English, so I can get a usefull version at least. The title I have put for it, maybe it is not good and I accept suggestions. The article needs some help and there are a lot of information about it in internet. I will appreciate any help, suggestions, corrections, etc. Just dont say the article is not good, I know that. If you see something wrong correct it or give some idea how to correct it. Thanks.-- Carlosar 01:11, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)'''

'''I made some copy and style edits, and cleaned it up generally. We do need to look out for several less-well-supported assertions and make sure that any statements in the article are directly attributable to sources. MikeEdwards 20:45, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)'''
 * I appreciate you help and I hope you continue analysing and criticizing this text, so it gets well written. I will try to revise the text according to your suggestions and give an answer to your critics. -- Carlosar 01:07, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Apologies
I'm sorry, Carlosar... I didn't see these edits. - Amgine 01:13, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * It is ok :) . --- Carlosar 02:53, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Critics and answers
1. Who is the MIPT? --- MikeEdwards 20:45, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

According to MIPT website: ''The National Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism (MIPT) is a non-profit organization dedicated to preventing terrorism on U.S. soil or mitigating its effects. MIPT was established after the April 1995 bombing of the Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City, and it is funded through the Department of Homeland Security's Office for State and Local Government Coordination and Preparedness (OSLGCP).'' I have found the MIPT website researching in internet when I was looking for some more information about the FARC. I liked the MIPT website because they have a good database about terrorist movements around the globe of any kind and political orientation. I compared some informations with other sources and I have found nothing seriously wrong with it. Actually I have found the website a good tool for research. Anyway check yourself and see if there is something wrong I couldn't see. --- Carlosar 02:28, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

2. We need a source for the Chavez link and a more qualified statement about Lula, given the less-than-rock-solid evidence stated below. Associating heads of state with terrorists groups gets us into libel territory if untrue --- MikeEdwards 20:45, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)'''

I agree with you, we must have some evidence and write carefully in these case. That is why that when I saw the article Veteran sergeant accounts US torture coverup I warned people about this fact(please people, don't talk about that article anymore, I am using it just an example, it is not a complain or critic :). To me that article is a finished and reviewed Wikinews article). But since a lot of people said there was no trouble with it and the article was written carefully at some extent, I agreed. The words of an not well-known retired soldier and a free-lancer reporter (with in my opinion is not better than you, me, or anyone else here in Wikinews) published in a not so big website were evidences to the publication of an article linking the Bush administration with past torture activities. Because I believe(like you) we need solid evidences I am collecting evidences and putting them at the FARC-evidences page. I hope that in this page we can see evidences so we can say with sure that Lula and Chavez have some empathy with the FARC movement at least. Unless you think we need even more evidences because the reputation of these presidents are more important than the reputation of the president of the USA. This is stage one. After we have be convinced about the FARC link(or not), we can think how can we write it in a proper and carefully way. This will be stage two.

3. Who is this(about Venezuelan Luis Tascón)? An average Venezuelan or someone with evidence and in a position to know this? MikeEdwards 20:45, 13 Jan 2005 UTC

He's the deputy for the opposition. VikOlliver 18:30, 15 Jan 2005 NZDT

El diputado emeverrista Luis Tascón declaró a la cadena colombiana Radio Caracol que el llamado "Canciller de las FARC", Rodrigo Granda, fue secuestrado en Caracas por supuestos caza-recompensas, quienes estarían vinculados con un alto oficial de la fuerza armada neogranadina. -- The Venezuelan deputy Luis Tascón said that Rodrigo Granda was kidnapped in Caracas(VEN) by supposed bounty-hunters vinculated to a high official of Neogranadina army.
 * El Observador - Caracas(VEN):
 * interview of deputy Luis Tascón to Radio Caracol(COL) (audio)


text:
User talk:81.218.252.128

Welcome
81.218.252.128, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! -- Davodd | Talk 20:06, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
 * Writing an article - how to write and publish a complete article
 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Style guide - how articles should look before publishing
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
 * The front page lead articles often need updating
 * Developing stories need finishing and publishing
 * Discussions need your input
 * Audio Wikinews could always use more contributors
 * And of course, stories need writing!

title: User talk:81.218.252.128


text:
User:ArnoLagrange

See Arno Lagrange

title: User:ArnoLagrange


text:
Brazilian deputies meet Ramallah Abbas

January 13, 2005

A delegation of Brazilian deputies and senators met the new president of the Palestine Authority, Mahmoud Abbas, known as Abu Mazen, on Monday, January 10. Abbas recognized the preferential treatment offered by Brazil to the Palestinians and promised reciprocity. Carlos Abicalil (PT), member of the delegation, said that the decision of the Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva to establish, in July 2004, an office of representation in Ramallah contributed to the closening of relations between the governments of Brazil and the Palestinian.

He praised the choice of Abbas, remembering that the election of the parliament, in July, can be a still more decisive step: "From the point of view of the major political representation of the parliament, there is still an incognito, since diverse political positions which didn't participate in the presidential election, with proper candidates, as is the case with Hamas - who have an armed and very organized arm - will participate in the legislative elections. Evidently, in the composition of the parliament, there will be more or less radical positions around the situation of Gaza and Jerusalem ".

title: Brazilian deputies meet Ramallah Abbas


text:
Man is waiting for 139 days in front of theater for "Star Wars" movie

January 15, 2005

Jeff Tweiten, a 27-year-old graphic artist, is encamped in front of the Cinerama Theatre, on a blue sofa, in the northwest city of Seattle, Washington. Tweiten plans to wait 139 days for the premiere of "Star Wars: Episode III — Revenge of the Sith," which opens May 19, 2005.

He has received help from a community of friends and local business people who have supplied changes of clothes, coffee, food, and a nearby restroom.

City authorities have chosen not to enforce vagrancy laws that would force Tweiten to move between the hours of 7AM and 9PM local time.

Tweiten also camped out for the previous two episodes of the Star Wars movies, "Episode I" and "Episode II".


text:
Talk:Man is waiting for 139 days in front of theater for "Star Wars" movie

Eek. And I thought I was crazy when I waited for 42 days for Episode I, with a group of friends. -- IlyaHaykinson 23:36, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Is this really news? Does some sad persons attempt to see a movie really justify being given international attention? (<-- comment left by anonymous IP)

 * It is news — it's covered in other publications, and it isn't something ordinary. There's lots of space on a wiki: anything can be newsworthy. -- IlyaHaykinson 07:28, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I appreciate that Wikinews covers a variety of topics - from the deadly serious issues of the day to light-hearted stories such as this one.

 * Life is too short to only report about wars, disasters, and all other manner of human suffering every minute of the day. — DV 08:02, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Where is this guy?
The article doesn't tell you what city he's in. You have to look at the reference and deduce that if it was reported in the Seattle (Washington, USA) newspaper, he must be in Seattle.

Basic law of journalism: Who, what, when, where and why. The where is definitely missing.

As for the why, well, when I saw it I thought - Wiki news is geeky news. Your readers will probably find this article amusing, because most of them really care about the next Star Wars movie. Even though I don't, the article doesn't bother me. Just get all the facts in, please. (<-- comment from anonymous IP)

 * The byline opens with the date and location in most of the articles on Wikinews.

 * However, it wouldn't hurt to have a second mention of the location.

 * I've updated the article to restate the location in the opening graph.

 * — DV 08:56, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I have just read this, and thought perhaps it is good to mention that he was covered by media previously and known as the Star Wars guy to some. Tomos 16:01, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Confused
I can get the DVD for this movie at any store that sells DVD's. What's up with this guy? Did I miss something?
 * The story is from January 15, 2005. :-) --Brian McNeil / talk 08:11, 15 January 2006 (UTC)


text:
User:IlyaHaykinson/Test/TopicLatestNews

{|cellspacing="3" class="europetable" width="100%"
 * - valign="top"
 * colspan=2 style="border: 1px solid #cfcfbf;padding: .5em 1em 1em; color: #000000; background-color: #ffffff"|

Major events

 * - valign="top"
 * width="50%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #9f8f9f; padding: .5em 1em 1em; color: #000000; background-color: #f8f8ff"|

North America

Central America

South America

Europe

 * width="50%" class="MainPageBG" style="border:1px solid #9f8f9f; padding: .5em 1em 1em; color: #000; background-color: #f8fff8"|

Asia

Africa

Oceania

Middle East

 * }

title: User:IlyaHaykinson/Test/TopicLatestNews


text:
User:IlyaHaykinson/Test/TopicLatestNews Consumer

This is a test of the User:IlyaHaykinson/Test/TopicLatestNews template.


text:
User:IlyaHaykinson/Test/TopicLatestNews Consumer Include

The latest news for blah is:


text:
Japan plans defense against Chinese invasion

Japan plans to deploy 55,000 troops, along with planes, warships, and submarines, in the event of a Chinese invasion of a remote southern island chain.

This new policy contrasts sharply with public comments by Japan's Chief Cabinet Secretary Hiroyuki Hosoda, who as recently as December claimed that Japan did not view China as a threat.

Japan Defense Agency Director General Yoshinori Ono pointed to an incursion into the area by a Chinese nuclear submarine last November, which has raised the profile of the political dispute over administrative rights for the islands. China has also increased its marine surveillance of the area in recent months.

The release of such detailed plans by the Japan Defense Agency sends a strong message to China—that Japan plans to protect its claimed administrative rights over the area at all costs. Many Japanese believe "that their government should take an even tougher stance toward China", according to Ho Szu-shen, an associate professor in the Department of Japanese at Fu-jen Catholic University.

The Chinese government has not yet commented publicly about the release of the Japanese defense plans for the islands. However, in December, the state-run People's Daily newspaper editorialized that Japan's multi-year Defense Forces Reorganization Plan attempts to "play up Chinese military threats." China is also unhappy with Japan's plans to build a missile defense system in cooperation with the United States.

Sovereignty of the island is disputed between Japan and China. Both the People's Republic of China and the Republic of China claims soveregnty on the island.

Despite Japan's claims of sovereignty over the islands, China has begun to claim some of the region's valuable oil and natural gas deposits to help alleviate the shortages for China's growing economy. China recently allowed leased oil drilling to commence within the area that Japan has declared as an "Economic Exclusion Zone". Japan has lodged diplomatic protests to ask China to discontinue these projects, but China does not recognize Japan's claims, arguing that Chinese territorial rights end at the edge of the Asian continental shelf underneath the East China Sea.

On March 24, 2004, seven Chinese activists were arrested by Japanese authorities when they landed on the islands with the intent to stay for three days. At the time, the Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs lodged a protest with the PRC. The activists were deported by Japan after the PRC demanded their return.

The name of the island chain is disputed. The Japanese refer to the islands as "Sento Shosho" or "Senkaku Retto," the People's Republic of China (PRC) and the Republic of China (Taiwan) call the island the same name. In PRC's pinyin system, the names spells "Diaoyu Dao" and in ROC's system "Tiao Yu Tai."


text:
User talk:ArnoLagrange

Hello!

Welcome to Wikinews. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy being a journalist here and being a Wikinewsie! By the way, you can sign your name on Discussion and vote pages using three tildes, like this: NaodW29-nowiki6843bb1261e2d23600000001. Four tildes (NaodW29-nowiki6843bb1261e2d23600000002) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you may ask them at the water cooler or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! -- Davodd | Talk 03:52, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Learn how to edit a page or just play around with editing in our sandbox.
 * Visit the newsroom - our community center
 * If you haven't done so already, you may want to create an account (Here's why you should).
 * How to start writing in Wikinews
 * Wikinews writing style guide
 * What makes a good Wikinews article

title: User talk:ArnoLagrange


text:
Talk:Voting underway for successor to Yasser Arafat

2005 Palestinian Election
REASON -- merged with Voting underway for successor to Yasser Arafat Xcjm 16:55, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * ARGUMENTS --

Merge okay, but retain original title, modified to: 2005 Palestinian Presidential Election this is more accurate and less POV.

 * Can someone connected to this article please explain the current status of the article(s)? Please sign your posts. - Amgine 21:52, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * yes IIRC this was the page you originally created :> i added some sources, basic text and links. it was then merged with Voting underway for successor to Yasser Arafat with no arguments given, i requested the orginal title be retained for POV and accuracy reasons. it was a shame because de.wikinews had linked to it and the link was not carried over. - Onymous 81.217.21.244 15:06, 11 Jan 2005 (UTC)


text:
Purged Chinese leader Zhao Ziyang dies at 85

January 17, 2005

Zhao Ziyang, the General Secretary of the Chinese Communist Party who was purged for sympathizing with the student protestors in the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 died on Monday in Beijing after 15 years of house arrest. He was 85.

Zhao was a reformer within the communist party who acted against corruption, and created programs of economic and agricultural reform that allowed parts of China to recover from the failure and famine of the Great Leap Forward. He disbanded communes and allowed farmers to tend their own land; he also introduced the plan to create special economic hubs in coastal areas — a system that is the current model for China.

In the 1980s, Zhao's success gained him a variety of top posts within the Poliburo of the Communist Party, including in 1987 the post of General Secretary — highest rank within the party. He was seen by outsiders as a potential successor to the de facto Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping, though on one occasion Zhao had denied that he would be fit for the role.

Zhao's rule came to an end in 1989, as he sided with the student protesters advocating democracy in the Tiananmen Square in Beijing. Zhao's position was not held by others within the core of the Politburo, and he was stripped of his post.

On May 19, 1989, Zhao arrived at Tiananmen Square and spoke to the protesters. In tears, he apologized for "coming too late" and asked them to abandon their protest.

Shortly afterward, Zhao was placed under house arrest despite never being charged. Two weeks later on June 4, the army was sent into the square to disband the protestors, leading to hundreds of deaths.

He never again made a public appearance and was confined to a courtyard house not far from Tiananmen Square. From there, Mr. Zhao ventured outside only rarely and under heavy escort to play golf at nearby courses.

Even in death, the government continues to fear that his name might ignite discontent among impoverished farmers, intellectuals, the unemployed and others who want to see sweeping political reforms.

Security at Tiananmen Square was visibly tightened in the days leading to Zhao Ziyang's death, as reports emerged that he had slipped into a coma.

Official announcement of his passing Monday came via a short dispatch by the state news agency, which briefly said that he had died at a Beijing hospital after suffering longtime lung and heart ailments. The report referred to the deceased leader as "Comrade Zhao" and made no mention of his former titles.

He had been in a coma since Friday after suffering multiple strokes, a source close to his family said.

He is survived by his second wife, Liang Boqi, four sons, and a daughter.


text:
Talk:Ariel Sharon gives 'free hand' to military for crack-down

The article writer is probably not biased. But the article is so poorly written that it reads as biased.

(1) In the first graf, the article makes a connection between the "crackdown" and the election of Abbas. More accurate is that the "crackdown" is connected to the attack of Israelis at the border crossing.

(2) "Crackdown" is a loaded word, which has a negative meaning to most people (compare this to the Chinese "crackdown" on dissidents, which is almost universally condemned).

(3) The third graf says the "crackdown" merely "follows" but doesn't suggest that this is the cause of the military going into Gaza.

(4) A connection is made between the two people who were killed in Israel and the eight who were killed in Gaza. But those killed in Israel were non-combatants while at least some of those in Gaza were combatants -- a big difference.

(5) The Israelis killed were simply "two people" while the two killed in Gaza were a more-descriptive "eight Palestinians". (As a one-time occurrence, this is not really a problem. But I see that this type of construction is reported over and over again.)

(6) The action described is being taken by "Ariel Sharon" (and not "Israel" or "Israeli PM"). The tactic is to further vilify the Israeli prime minister.

DBW

Biased?
1. The article writer have even failed to underline that Mahmoud Abbas have used his inauguration talk to urge militant groups to end attacks on israel. This does determine the background of the Israeli order.

2. Maybe "Crackdown" is a loaded word. And what about " These instructions will remain valid as long as the Palestinians fail to lift even a single finger ", said by Sharon?

3. I guess "follows" is a much more neutral word than "pretext" or "peg". There could be a lot of interpretations on what could be the cause of the Israeli order, and a lot of them would be much more concerned with the fact that there is an opportunity now to end the war, and whether it is good for the Israeli leadership, than with some people killed by braindead militants (the latter is happening every day in both sides anyway).

4. It would be interesting to figure out how much of people killed in Gaza were combatant, and whether teenagers throwing stones to tanks destroying their homes classify as combatants.

Author's response
As the original author I guess I better respond to these comments (you'd have been better off simply editing it yourself, though).

First set:

1. It's just fact that seven days elapsed between Abbas being elected and this crackdown being initiated. That's not POV.

2. Crackdown isn't loaded, again it's just a factual description of the event.

3. I don't understand this one. I certainly wasn't going to infer something I didn't know.

4. I have no idea of the status of who was killed. I was just reporting facts.

5. I don't understand this one.

6. Ariel Sharon is the name of the person who took the action. That's not POV.

Second set:

1. This article was not the place. In fact I don't believe the inaugration had even occured when I wrote the article. The correct place was a new article - write it yourself!

2. Add the quote yourself, if you have a valid source.

3. We deal in facts, not speculation.

4. I'm unsure of the relevance of that.

Dan100 (Talk) 19:45, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

That piece had more palestinian POV than the Hamas home page! wake up moderators and start opening your eyes! TiB 21:33, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

"As a result, the Israeli government cut all communications with Abbas." - that is simply untrue. Israel has never cut communication with abbas. Abbas is the only one keeping the cease fire in place. TiB 22:01, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Substantiate this claim with a source before removing text again. - Amgine/talk 22:05, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Half the sources don't exist anymore so I will leave it at that, even though I remember clearly they did not cut any ties with abbas. TiB 22:18, 5 May 2005 (UTC)


text:
U.S. reported to mount covert operations in Iran

January 17, 2005

winner Seymour Hersh reported that covert operations to identify as many as 36 or more nuclear, chemical and missile potential targets in Iran have been carried out by U.S. Special Forces. By defining these as military missions, the Bush administration hopes to evade legal restrictions imposed on the CIA's covert activities overseas.

There are satellite photographs showing disputed nuclear facilities near and. The inspected these sites in early 2002 without finding conclusive evidence of military use, though traces of highly enriched material were found.

The covert missions have been ongoing for nearly a year, and have taken place in as many as ten Middle Eastern and South Asian nations. In return for his country's assistance, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf is said to have received assurances that the US government will not demand for questioning, Pakistani nuclear scientist and creator of their.

The Pentagon has strongly criticised the report, though without explicitly denying the existence of covert operations in Iran. According to the Pentagon spokesman "Mr. Hersh's article is so riddled with errors of fundamental fact that the credibility of his entire piece is destroyed."

He went on to state: "Mr. Hersh's source(s) feed him with rumor, innuendo, and assertions about meetings that never happened, programs that do not exist, and statements by officials that were never made."


text:
Template:TopicLatestNews

{|cellspacing="3" class="europetable" width="100%"
 * - valign="top"
 * colspan=2 style="border: 1px solid #cfcfbf;padding: .5em 1em 1em; color: #000000; background-color: #ffffff"|

Major events

 * - valign="top"
 * width="50%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #9f8f9f; padding: .5em 1em 1em; color: #000000; background-color: #f8f8ff"|

North America

Central America

South America

Europe

 * width="50%" class="MainPageBG" style="border:1px solid #9f8f9f; padding: .5em 1em 1em; color: #000; background-color: #f8fff8"|

Asia

Africa

Oceania

Middle East

 * }

title: Template:TopicLatestNews


text:
Template:LocationLatestNews

{|cellspacing="3" class="europetable" width="100%"
 * - valign="top"
 * colspan=2 style="border: 1px solid #cfcfbf;padding: .5em 1em 1em; color: #000000; background-color: #ffffff"|

Major events

 * - valign="top"
 * width="50%" class="MainPageBG" style="border: 1px solid #9f8f9f; padding: .5em 1em 1em; color: #000000; background-color: #f8f8ff"|

Politics and Conflicts

Disasters and Accidents

Crime and Law

Obituaries

 * width="50%" class="MainPageBG" style="border:1px solid #9f8f9f; padding: .5em 1em 1em; color: #000; background-color: #f8fff8"|

Economy and Business

Science and Technology

Culture and Entertainment

Sports

Weather

 * }

title: Template:LocationLatestNews


text:
Category:Belize

es:Categoría:Belice fa:رده:بلیز fr:Catégorie:Belize it:Categoria:Belize ja:カテゴリ:ベリーズ ru:Категория:Белиз sq:Kategoria:Belizë sr:Категорија:Белизе sv:Kategori:Belize

title: Category:Belize


text:
Category talk:Human rights

I put this category into both Category:Politics and conflicts as well as Category:Crime and law as I feel it might belong to both of those at the same time. It's up to editors how to list stories in this categories in latest-news lists. -- IlyaHaykinson 10:04, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Abortion articles in this category
When I saw the categories of Arizona bans abortion for genetic abnormalities, I wasn't sure if we had placed abortion articles in human rights' category. Turns out that we have (Perma link). Obviously context matters, but yes, it is not a hard 'no', for anyone who is looking. •–• 04:00, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

title: Category talk:Human rights


text:
Talk:Purged Chinese leader Zhao Ziyang dies at 85

I moved this page from "Controversial Chinese leader Zhao Ziyang dies at 85" to "Purged Chinese leader Zhao Ziyang dies at 85" because every leader is controversial. Noting that he was purged is more informative. --Jiang 10:52, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Good call. I had trouble with the headline — this one is better. -- IlyaHaykinson 11:20, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Please write new article, rather than unbalancing old article
I appreciate your edits to this article; they offer additional interpretation of historical events and background. However, they are clearly biased toward a view of Zhao Ziyang which is not universal. Furthermore, they are edits to an article which is now more than a week old.

The information you added is still valid, and would make the basis of an excellent article comparing the current administration to previous ones, or as a larger article regarding Zhao Ziyang's influence and impact on the ongoing changes in mainland China's culture/government/history, or a variety of other possible articles. Wikinews needs new articles more than updates/edits to old articles; and your work will be viewed by more people too. - Amgine 04:26, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * The text was drawn from an article that is the same age as this one. I really don't see what I'm doing wrong here. Can you lead me to a policy page that states I shouldnt do this? I don't see the POV in my edits either. I removed the quotation since it could be taken as POV...but I don't see what's wrong with the rest. It would be inappropriate for me to take information from a source written on January 17, 2005 and label it as Janaury 24. This article, as it stood, was seriously lacking in content if we want to call it an "obituary" --Jiang 04:49, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I think what Amgine was referring to is a more subtle case of POV than you're thinking of. For example "- in tears - to abandon their protest and go home in order to avoid being crushed by the columns of Army tanks that would force their way into the square two weeks later on June 4" is worded in such a way that it promotes certain interpretations.  Mentioning that he was "in tears" is not historically significant in this case, but is more meant to jerk emotions.  In this example, "crush" and "force" are the same thing.  Not saying that it's particuliarly strongly POV, but it can be worded in such a way that is more NPOV.  User:Consequencefree 07:09, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I've tried to deal with that. "In tears" is historically significant because it convey's Zhao's emotions. It, in itself, is not emotive language--Jiang 09:09, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)


text:
Mars lander website opens

January 17, 2005 NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander program now has an official web site.

The mission of the robotic craft, scheduled to launch August 2007, is to explore the northern polar region of Mars (about 70° N latitude) in May 2008 and to expose the upper few feet of surface material using a robotic arm to find the ice that was discovered by the Odyssey mission in 2002.

The Phoenix lander is the first in NASA's new line of smaller "Scout" missions in the agency's Mars Exploration Program.

title: Mars lander website opens


text:
Talk:US Special forces operating inside Iran

This is my first article that's gone up on the main page. I'm sure I've made mistakes on it. I also couldn't figure out how to put it under developing stories. If you want to tell me what I've done wrong on my talk page, please do. User:Brianmc


text:
User:Brian McNeil

'• Brian McNeil —' Wikinewsie

Looking for my Photos? Then you want Wikimedia Commons.

As it amuses me to frame it, "I'm so old I was born before Neil Armstrong walked on the Moon"; albeit, only during the preceding February. That was in central Scotland, which I've now moved back to after over fifteen years based in/near Brussels, Belgium. Good to be back? Take a look at some of my photos, and you decide. As far as Wikinews goes, I first edited in January 2005. I didn't do much more until September that year when I wrote my first full article, Wal-Mart accused of workers rights violations. Since then, I've been main author on over 100 articles; done in-depth coverage of Thailand's insurgency problems in the Muslim-Malay southern provinces; documented the downfall of Thaksin Shinawatra, Thailand's then-Prime Minister; dabbled with reporting on newsworthy Wikimedia items such as the US government's vandalism, the "vetted" version "Wikipedia for Schools", and the making of the 2,000th Featured Article on English Wikipedia, with some more-recent 'crossover' work involving significant image contributions to Wikimedia Commons. The handful of Wikinews Featured articles shown below may not seem a lot, but at present the project has little more than 100 in total from over 16,000 published.

In the intervening time since first becoming involved I've moved up to be one of the project's bureaucrats and administrators. In 2008 I was invited, expenses paid, to attend the annual Wikimedia Conference, Wikimania 2008, held in Alexandria, Egypt; Craig Spurrier and I spoke, and answered questions, on Wikinews—attempting to encourage attendees to try and contribute to the project; I also managed to write about the US State Department's Diplopedia, which uses the same software as Wikipedia. Subsequent to that I was given privileged contact information with Google News, leading to the English-language Wikinews now being listed in Google News.

A few photos of Craig and I talking at Wikimania are available on Wikimedia Commons; I prefer not to use those here, as those poor photographs are an unpleasant reminder of then-unknown health problems. Later in the year I spent seven weeks in a Walloon hospital having a blood clot removed from my leg, the responsible two-centimetre vegetative growth ( my conscience ) excised from my heart, and being treated with extremely high doses of antibiotics for a serious chest infection—that's doses measured in grammes, not milligrams. Whilst still in Belgium, I instituted the current archiving policy, applying and refining it, as I put around 4,000 articles into an archived state. I have extensively worked on the Style Guide, various other guidelines and policies, plus the current welcome template howdy and the press release template for those non-clueful enough to try and get those on a neutral news site.

I also set up the wikinewsie.org domain, predominantly used to give accredited reporters more professional email addresses. If you want to help keep that running, donations would be very, very welcome! Given some of the stories we've covered, I'd love to move the hosting from the U.S. to Sweden and switch to SSL for the entire site.

When I'm not testing the limits of what might be considered 'sanity' on this Wikinews project, I have been known to dabble in other arts. May 2010 saw me invited to visit Norway where a good friend I previously entrusted with some poetic musings had released a first album/CD with his band, The Windmill. Including one track where my poetry had been fused with music and the given credit enabled me to join the UK's PRS for Music, possibly even having an opportunity to receive royalties for my musings. I took the photo to the left at the launch concert using a Nokia 3G phone.

The nine-years-in-the-making album, To be continued... has – to-date – received particularly favourable reviews in the Prog-Rock press. It is available via iTunes, several other online stores, and a physical copy (on CD) should may be ordered on the band's website. ( If you need any more convincing, check out this review on Background, a Dutch Prog-Rock magazine. )

In February 2011, the album received a "Best Classic Rock Album of 2010 (Newcomer)" award from Norway's Rock FM. Later in 2011, I was again able to visit Norway where the band were supporting Fish— former front-man of Marillion

 * If you want to know some of the more odd things I get up to, give The Credit Crunch Blues a listen, the lyrics are mine.
 * Or, take a peek at my first article in a national UK publication.
 * Plus, there's my newly set-up site, The Edinburgh Resurrectionists.

Useful 'bits'

 My first edit (January 15, 2005) | Block user | Outdated Review Pages | User Rights Management | GNews reqs (old) | Ubuntu notes (again, old)

Misc.  Gongs | An attempt at a compact main page design|old mainpage design attempt | Israel-Muslim relations coverage | Definitive article template

ar:%D9%85%D8%B3%D8%AA%D8%AE%D8%AF%D9%85:Brian McNeil bg:Потребител:Brian McNeil de:Benutzer:Brian McNeil es:Usuario:Brian McNeil fr:Utilisateur:Brian McNeil it:Utente:Brian McNeil nl:Gebruiker:Brian McNeil pl:Wikireporter:Brian McNeil sv:Användare:Brian McNeil

title: User:Brian McNeil


text:
Wikinews:Briefs/January 17, 2005

The following stories made international headlines Monday

Catholic archbishop kidnapped in Iraq
A Catholic archbishop was kidnapped in Mosul, Iraq according to reports from the Vatican. The man, Basile Georges Casmoussa, is an archbishop of the Syrian Catholic Church, and was in Mosul — a city with tens of thousands of Christians that make up 3 percent of the country's population. The Vatican called the kidnapping a terrorist act.
 * Source: ABC

80 government officials convicted in Chinese bank swindle
After an investigation that lasted for more than a year the National Audit Office of China found 233 persons, including 80 government officials, guilty of having defrauded the Industrial and Commercial Bank of China (ICBC), China's largest commercial bank. The total amount involved in the swindle was 7.4 billion yuan (US$894 million). Most of the money appears to have been recovered, but more than 2 billion yuan are still missing and may have been transferred to overseas accounts.
 * Source: Xinhua

Bosnian Serb colonel convicted of genocide for Srebrenica massacre
The former commander of the Bratunac Brigade in Bosnia, Vidoje Blagojevic, was sentenced to 18 years' imprisonment by the Hague Tribunal for "complicity in genocide". The Trial Chamber found that Blagojevic's brigade, by taking part in the forced transfer of Bosniaks from the Srebenica area, had aided and abetted a "murder operation" that led to the death of more than 7000 men and boys.

Blagojevic was the second person from former Yugoslavia to be found guilty of genocide by the Tribunal. The first was Radislav Krstic, the Bosnian Serb general who led the Srebrenica operation. Krstic was sentenced to 46 years' imprisonment on 2 August 2001.
 * Source: ICTY

Eight workers paralyzed from toxic chemical in S. Korean sweatshop
Eight Thai female workers, working for the South Korean company Donghwa Digital, were paralyzed from the waist down after being exposed to hexane, a chemical commonly used by the electronics industry to clean electronic components.

Workers at Donghwa used hexane to polish products in unventilated rooms, for up to 12 hours per day. They worked without protective gear, such as gloves, goggles, and masks, for varying durations of time, between seven months and three years.

Of the eight women from Thailand, seven were illegal migrant workers who were afraid to seek outside help due to their fear of deportation. After a Seoul newspaper reported about the women on Friday, the South Korean Ministry of Labor initiated an investigation of Donghwa Digital.

The Seoul newspaper, Hankyoreh Sinmun, also reported on an earlier similar case involving three Chinese women who worked for another company making components for liquid crystal displays.
 * Source: JoongAng Daily

title: Wikinews:Briefs/January 17, 2005


text:
Woman aged 66 gives birth

January 17, 2005

A 66 year-old woman in Bucharest has given birth to a girl and is believed to be the oldest woman ever to give birth.

She had been receiving fertility treatment for nine years before conceiving twins. She had not been able to conceive naturally before.

The baby was delivered early by Caesarean section after the other fetus died in the womb. At birth, the child weighed 1.4kg.

title: Woman aged 66 gives birth


text:
User:Kimmo

Kimmo Suominen
For the time being, please visit my personal home page at https://kimmo.suominen.com/ for more about me.

— Kimmo Suominen ✎ 21:59, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

title: User:Kimmo


text:
User talk:62.181.72.53

Welcome
62.181.72.53, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! -- IlyaHaykinson 22:20, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
 * Writing an article - how to write and publish a complete article
 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Style guide - how articles should look before publishing
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
 * The front page lead articles often need updating
 * Developing stories need finishing and publishing
 * Discussions need your input
 * Audio Wikinews could always use more contributors
 * And of course, stories need writing!

New tsunami could hit soon
Thanks very much for spotting my link mistake. I hadn't noticed it! Why not create an account?-- AliceCrypto (Talk|Contributions) 17:54, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:62.181.72.53


text:
User talk:68.39.174.205

Welcome
68.39.174.205, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! -- IlyaHaykinson 22:30, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
 * Writing an article - how to write and publish a complete article
 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Style guide - how articles should look before publishing
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
 * The front page lead articles often need updating
 * Developing stories need finishing and publishing
 * Discussions need your input
 * Audio Wikinews could always use more contributors
 * And of course, stories need writing!

 * Err, what did I do? 68.39.174.205 21:25, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:68.39.174.205


text:
Talk:U.S. reported to mount covert operations in Iran

DoD denies program
Quote from ref on article page: "Mr. Hersh’s source(s) feed him with rumor, innuendo, and assertions about meetings that never happened, programs that do not exist, and statements by officials that were never made."

Dan100 (Talk) 22:39, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

However I recognize where the anon contributor was coming from, so I've removed my own use of the word 'denial' as the statement really isn't explicit in its denial. Instead I've added the above quote. Readers can make their own mind ups :) Dan100 (Talk) 22:49, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The art of the non-denial denial
There's an old trick in politics where one attempts to force your opponent to deny something, realizing that once they deny that thing, a number of folks will start to think it may be true.

Unfortunately, this leads to such silliness as the vast network of UFO conspiracy theorists getting more credibility when the government refuses to even dignify their theories with a direct denial (believing that such a denial isn't necessary) which only leads the movement to think that the lack of such a direct denial meant that there really is such a thing as UFOs.

There was also a political campaign some years ago, in which LBJ had his political operatives spread a nasty rumor that claimed his political candidate practiced bestiality. After the rumor was spread to enough people, the smeared candidate finally had to go on the record denying the rumor. Of course, politics working the way it does, this then caused a number of voters to wonder if the smeared candidate really did practice bestiality. When LBJ was asked by his staff why he spread this rumor even though he knew it wasn't true, he said, "I want to hear him deny it."

Finally, one of Richard Nixon's fatal mistakes was when he stated, "I am not a crook." This statement, of course, made him look even more like a crook.

My point is that a direct denial of the substance of an allegation only reinforces the credibility of that allegation in the eyes of many. It also allows political opponents to play "gotcha" politics if it later turns out that even a small part of the allegation was true.

So, I would be very interested to find out who is feeding this story to Mr. Hersh to determine what political agenda is being served by its publication.

I find this particular story very newsworthy, so I think it's definitely worth keeping close tabs on any follow-up reports, but at the same time, I don't want Wikinews to become a tool of either the left or the right, to unwittingly help advance hidden political agendas.

— DV 05:52, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * There's also the possibility that this story was intentionally leaked by the White House to rile up the Iranian mullahs, perhaps to try and scare them without taking the next step of directly confronting them?

 * After reading the latest published reports, especially NBC's interview today with President Bush, (in which he specifically declined to rule out military action) there's a 50/50 chance that this story was fed to Hersh either by Bush's opponents or by the White House itself. — DV 06:07, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

U.S. or US ?
Are we going to use "U.S." or "US" ? -- Carlosar 09:04, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Edit
editprotected Category:Pervez Musharraf & Category:Abdul Qadeer Khan. Ali Rana (talk) 09:41, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ – Juliancolton  | Talk 16:42, 2 October 2009 (UTC)