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Andrea Muizelaar on fashion, anorexia, and life after 'Top Model'

November 26, 2007

In the 18 months since Andrea Muizelaar was crowned winner of the reality TV series Canada's Next Top Model, her life has been a complete whirlwind. From working in a dollar store in her hometown of Whitby, Ontario, to modeling haute couture in Toronto, she had reached her dream of becoming a true Top Model.

But at what cost? Unknown to casual television viewers, Muizelaar had been enveloped in the eating disorder anorexia nervosa, which inevitably became too much for her to bear. She gave up modeling and moved back to Whitby, where she sought treatment for her disorder, re-entered college, and now works at a bank. Where is she now? Happy and healthy, she says.

Recently Andrea Muizelaar sat down with Wikinews reporter Mike Halterman in a candid interview that stretched to nearly two hours, as she told all about her hopes and aspirations, her battle with anorexia, and just what really happened on Canada's Next Top Model.

Andrea's beginnings
Mike Halterman: Tell us a bit about your background. We know all about the Andrea we saw on Top Model, but we're interested to hear where you came from. What do your parents do? Did you have any hard times growing up?

 * Andrea Muizelaar: I am from Whitby, Ontario. My Dad works in the nuclear industry and my Mom is a stay-at-home mom. I had a lot of trouble from my peers at school due to my "geeky" appearance - braces, etc.

MH: How geeky are we talking here? Worse than any other teenager?

 * AM: Probably not extremely geeky; more of being a victim of a bully who liked to pick on me continuously and influenced other kids to do likewise.

MH: How long did that last?

 * AM: I would say from Grade 2 to Grade 9.

MH: What happened after that point? Did they stop, or did you grow into your looks, or was it something else?

 * AM: I definitely grew into my looks, the braces came off; high school is a bigger place and the bullying subsided because I had new friends.

MH: This was also around the time you wanted to model, right?

 * AM: Correct. Once I transitioned into a pretty young lady, people started telling me that I should model.  Going from one extreme, to this one, it went to my head and I started dieting over the summer of Grade 9 to make sure that I was the perfect candidate.

MH: Is that when you first became anorexic?

 * AM: Yes - I lost 20 pounds that summer and then starting losing my control and modelling became my new excuse for this weight loss and soon-to-be disorder.

Andrea on her road to modeling, and America's Next Top Model
MH: Who were the people you looked up to and inspired you to pursue modeling? Did they have that thin body type that you hoped to have?

 * AM: I looked up to anyone in a media image as well as, and especially, America's Next Top Model contestants.

MH: That was actually going to be my next question. Who did you look up to on that show?

 * AM: All the contestants on the show, minus the plus size girl because I knew modelling was all about thin and not regular people

MH: Some of the plus sized girls on that show actually went into rather lucrative careers, like Toccara from Cycle 3, probably more so than some of the thinner winners. How do you feel about that, and how would you have felt about such an event occurring before you overcame your anorexia?

 * AM: Like most of the viewers of the show, I had no idea where any of the winners or past-contestants ended up. Now, I am starting to rebuild my career more than anyone ever helped me to before...and to boot...I am healthy doing it.

MH: Definitely. On that note, do you feel there is such a thing as "perfect" in terms of image in fashion?

 * AM: Absolutely not in real life. In the fashion world the perfect image is definitely "thin" and it will be for a long time to come.

MH: Even with the Toccaras and Tyra Banks of the world?

 * AM: Tyra Banks started off extremely thin to get to where she is today, I was sick and dying and not able to do the same. Besides, look at the hype and criticism Tyra is getting for her present size and even Britney Spears for that matter.

MH: That is true. Do you think Tyra Banks picks the bigger models for "good TV" instead of actually succeeding in modeling?

 * AM: Absolutely - has any of them ever won yet? ...or come close?

MH: There was a big hype over Tyra picking Whitney and Diana for ANTM 8, which was the first time two plus sized girls made it into the final rounds. They were both eliminated midway through the competition. That year Jaslene won. Do you think her look is unhealthy in terms of how it's promoted to the public and young girls?

 * AM: Yes I do. Look at me and how I looked when I won.  I could not even face the young children that I used to babysit on my crescent, let alone the whole world.  I was ashamed at how I looked.

MH: Do you believe the producers for shows such as Top Model intentionally pick people who are perhaps unstable, whether it be with body image or otherwise?

 * AM: Yes, definitely, look at CNTM 1 - there was a drinker, a nerd (me), a bitch, etc.

Experience on Canada's Next Top Model
MH: This question was asked by Steff Groulx, who was on Canada's Next Top Model, Cycle 2. "Do you think the experience you had on the show was what you thought it would be?"

 * AM: Yes, the show was as hard as I thought it would be and I can accept that. It is the "behind the scenes" that went on and is still going on that made me make the decision of "quitting" easier.

MH: In the third episode, the photographer who was the guest judge that week made a comment that he wanted to take you "to get something to eat," and then criticized fellow contestant Natalie for being "a bit big" for modeling. Did you feel you had the worst criticism, or do you think it was evenly spread out among all the girls?

 * AM: It was evenly spread out. The criticism affected me as much as the others, but because I had a severe eating disorder at this time, I was very afraid of being exploited because of it.

MH: Right, you had some big concerns. Ylenia also had self-image concerns while on the show, but we don't know of her full story. Do you still keep in contact with her, and if so, is she in a better state of mind now?

 * AM: I've talked to Ylenia maybe once since CNTM and personally I do not know how she is handling herself.

MH: Tricia Helfer hired a personal trainer for an episode, and he told you to revise your diet and to gain weight in your backside and in your thighs. Were you afraid to listen to him or did you mentally process his tips but were hesitant anyway?

 * AM: I knew out of every guest on the show that he was the most sincere in his advice. I wanted to do what he said, but I knew that it was just for the show and therefore didn't abide.  I have talked to him recently and shared my story and he is so supportive of the way I look now and my true success story.

MH: He was also the same guest who memorably destroyed a scale with a sledgehammer. Since Tricia Helfer invited him, do you feel that she was sincere about wanting all the contestants to be healthy? Did she know you had an eating disorder?

 * AM: Tricia Helfer knows the demands of the industry as she lives them herself. She was not the producer of the show and did not plan the show, so I assume she is doing as she is told, knowing full well that weight was a big issue amongst all of us. They all knew that I had an eating disorder as I barely ate on that show.  If anyone did not know, they were just plain naive.

MH: After the Pantene photo shoot, at panel, all the judges criticized your weight, specifically that you didn't weigh enough, and you later became defensive and said you ate well. This was interspersed with an interview from Alanna who said she never saw you eat a full meal the entire time you were in the house. The mantra quickly became "Andrea, you need to eat!" Now my question is, do you feel that they truly cared about whether you ate or not, and do you think that mantra was just an excuse to go, "Well, I did say she needed to eat..."?

 * AM: They obviously did not care as I ended up winning the show and only ate dinner with everybody once.

MH: What would you hypothesize is the reason for the disconnect between the fashion industry's definitions of "health," "attractiveness," and "beauty," and what most people, completely unrelated to the fashion industry, would see as healthy, attractive and beautiful?

 * AM: I have no idea why the image of beauty is so distorted and why the industry went wrong in the first place.

MH: Twiggy herself has noted that models were more full-figured and traditionally "beautiful" before she came along, and that she thinks she may be a trend-setter in that regard. If you believe that's true, then do you think that she should be telling other potential models how to fit in "the mold," since she was the one who broke it in the first place?

 * AM: I personally do not believe that she had such impact on the whole industry.

MH: In your opinion, who do you think had the bigger impact? Is it one model? A series of models?

 * AM: Personally, that is well before my time and I'm unsure as to how exactly it changed.

MH: But you don't feel it's correct for Twiggy to "claim ownership" of today's "model look," as it were?

 * AM: No way! No one in that industry has that much impact!

MH: Do you feel that there are certain good qualities that the fashion industry has, and if so, what are they?

 * AM: No, because the clothes the average person wears are not even remotely close to high fashion modelling.

MH: Alanna was bigger than you were, but still rather average in terms of everyday women. If she had won and not you, do you think she would have had a tougher time breaking into high fashion?

 * AM: For all I know - maybe she would be the one to break the mold of being skinny! Ha, ha!

MH: Alanna was a very strong competitor. Do you feel the final two was a good choice, or should someone else have taken Alanna's place?

 * AM: To be honest - I don't think that I should have been in the final two; however if I was on the show now - it would have been an extremely tight competition.

MH: One constant criticism by the judges and by fans was that you lacked confidence, and certain times in the series you questioned why you were competing against girls you felt were "better than you." Why did you feel that way? Was your body image a factor, and if so, how much of a factor? What other factors were there in the way you felt?

 * AM: Let's just say that 99% of [the time I was] filming CNTM, I was only focused on hiding my eating disorder, therefore affecting everything from the way I walked on runway to my confidence level.

MH: The CityTV final episode online viewer poll had the question "Should Andrea have won CNTM?" and the response was overwhelmingly in favor of "No, Andrea shouldn't have been CNTM! She's too skinny and the crying gets annoying!" Was hiding your anorexia the reason why you were as emotional as you were?

 * AM: Correct. I was so emotionally unstable that the only person I could talk to was my Mom because she knew what I was going through.

MH: You made a comment during the series that you felt Stacey McKenzie was the most critical and belittling of the judges. Toward the second half of the competition, you spent an entire afternoon alone with her at the house and it was shown that you two bonded. Do you feel that day really made you feel better about how Stacey viewed you?

 * AM: No, because after wrapping up the day with Stacey I went to give her a hug in front of all the other girls and her true colours shone through.

MH: Please elaborate. Her "true colors" in what sense?

 * AM: The bonding was completely TV material and not really there.

MH: Which judge do you feel was perhaps the most genuine in terms of behavior on-screen and off?

 * AM: Tricia Helfer and Ron (one of the producers).

MH: There's been criticism on America's Next Top Model that Tyra Banks and the care that she shows to her models is an act for TV. Do you think Tricia Helfer is the opposite?

 * AM: Absolutely, and don't you think it is weird that she no longer hosts CNTM?

MH: Jay Manuel now hosts, and it's weird to see because he's in a different mode than he is on America's Next Top Model, where he's often very blunt and sarcastic. [...] Toward the end, there was a lot of rather cruel teasing towards you coming from Alanna and Brandi. As you may remember, it culminated in the night they went through your belongings and then tampered with a "treat" they prepared for you and Sisi. It wasn't a complete 180 in behavior, per se, but it did get very nasty very quickly. Why do you think they acted the way they did? Also, you were never shown confronting them for what they did. Did you end up doing so? Finally, did you know the extent of all they had done right away, or did you not find out until you actually saw the episode on television?

 * AM: These girls were set up by the producers [and were asked] devious questions about me. I did not even know that anyone went through my personal belongings until I watched the show myself.

MH: What did the producers say? On TV, due to editing, it comes across as Alanna and Brandi deciding to be nosy and poke through your things.

 * AM: They were asked questions such as, "Soooo, what do you think of all the candy that Andrea has in her suitcase?"

MH: And they didn't know you had any before that time?

 * AM: Not to my knowledge. I was pretty good at hiding things due to my eating disorder.

MH: After the final runway show, you did a private interview and you said something that stuck out. "I have learned so much about being a woman, about being a model, about being beautiful." Considering what happened to you during the competition and later on, do you still feel what you learned was genuine? If not, what do you feel isn't genuine, and what good things did you bring from the experience?

 * AM: The whole show was a learning experience; I learned many tips about modelling and tricks of the trade and will have them in my back pocket forever. The thing that I brought from the experience is that the industry is not glamorous in the least and by the grace of God all these experiences brought me to my senses and the healthy and real woman that I am today.

The message she wrote to her fans on her facebook group

 * Andrea first told her story via facebook. You can read her statement here.

MH: You wrote that you decided to audition for Canada's Next Top Model knowing that you would have to perpetuate an image of unhealthiness and false images of beauty. Why did you choose to go down that road if you knew of the risks?

 * AM: At the time I did not feel that I was unhealthy - it was part of the requirements for CNTM. I had no idea of the risks, plus my eating disorder took 5 years of my life and I had to prove to myself and my family that it was all because of this disorder.

MH: You seem to describe a battle of what you wanted more, which in this case, modeling almost won out over your health. What finally made you realize that modeling became too much to bear, and why did modeling mean that much to you?

 * AM: I had no friends or family to support me [in Toronto]. My health started to slip (i.e., toenails falling off). My health was in severe jeopardy.  Modelling meant a lot to me as any young girl's dreams [would].

MH: When your health faltered, that's when you said, "No, I can't do this anymore"?

 * AM: Correct. This as well as the fact that the industry was cold and treating me quite badly.

MH: Do you feel that there should have been more of a fine line drawn between the money you received, between "prize" and "work," for tax purposes?

 * AM: Yes! The money was at one point on the show classified as a prize and we never even thought about taxes. This would make the prize more inconsiderable if it was called "$65,000 total prize winnings" to all the viewers.

MH: You discuss many horrible housing situations during your reign as Top Model. Were you not allowed to make your own decisions as far as housing was concerned?

 * AM: In the beginning, no. My parents and I were told where I would stay, and what I could and mostly could not bring. The second housing was because I refused to live in the first dwelling and again this was an arranged accommodation. After seeing how nasty this second place was (mice in my bed), I decided to make a decision and see what I could afford in terms of rent close to what I was already paying ($650) in another place in Toronto [that was] NOT in someone's house. This is where I found [the final place], the only available place for this price...a place on Parliament Street. The nasty side of town.

Her brief modeling career
MH: Your spread in Fashion magazine only paid $500. Is that a competitive rate for models or do you feel that you were paid less because you were under your television contract?

 * AM: That is incorrect; I was paid zero dollars for the Fashion shoot. I was paid $500 for a wedding magazine front page and spread. This dollar amount is standard in the business for this job - apparently whether you are Canada's Next Top Model or not.

MH: Why do you feel CityTV did not back you, as you say they were going to, during the lawsuit with your previous agency?

 * AM: The truth? We never got them to sign on their promises to my parents and I. They knew this and we were naive and didn't. Everything these days is officialized only if it is in writing. So, they claim now that they never said such things and [told us] to deal with the situation as these things happen every day.

MH: The Canadian website Canoe said you had alleged that Jeanne Beker, a judge on the show, effectively "ruined your career." Can you elaborate on what was meant by that, and do you indeed feel she ruined your career?

 * AM: She did. This was one of the biggest reasons the industry was cold to me and showed me its true colours. Within days of winning CNTM I gave an interview and said certain words that were easily manipulated to mean harm towards Jeanne Beker versus honest innocent answers. She should have known this when the interview was made known to her but instead she threatened to ruin my career verbally and she did because most people in the business started to turn a cold shoulder to me.

MH: A big criticism of Top Model winners is that they don't go on to do many big fashion-related events, such as runway shows or photoshoots. Do you feel that was the case with you? In the year you did pursue modeling, who did you model for, and what shows did you walk in?

 * AM: Yes, this was true for me. Because the winner has a pretty big work contract to fulfill, the winner [was] pretty focused on it. You have to make sure you keep your hair and looks the exact same for one year as per contract. There are many jobs to do for the contract therefore the winner cannot just leave Canada and travel abroad to model.

MH: Another question from Steff Groulx from CNTM 2: "Why did you go from wanting to be Canada's Next Top Model to not wanting it at all?"

 * AM: I wanted it because I wanted to make the five years I spent suffering worth the while. I left because of my health and the coldness I learned the fashion industry [had].

"Happy and healthy"
MH: You're going back to college for business administration. What do you want to do with your degree?

 * AM: [I want to] become a very successful businesswoman, preferably working for the bank which I work in presently.

MH: How do you feel when people tell you that you looked so beautiful in your modeling pictures back when you had anorexia?

 * AM: Most of the time people are commenting on the glamour and the intrigue of the show's excitement but once they know of my true story and see how beautiful I am now they ALL agree I look way better than ever before. And this is how I feel every day. I don't even watch the past shows of me anymore because I cannot look at this person...she is not me...not at all.

MH: Do you feel you've fully grown into your "own skin," so to speak, as far as your self-confidence goes now that you have left modeling?

 * AM: Yes I have. I am officially able to hold my own; in fact, I am ready to move out again because I am ready to start my own life and family.

MH: When you have a daughter of your own and she wants to become a model, would you approve of her choice to go into modeling?

 * AM: No. I would never approve, ever. Times will not change in terms of the viewpoints in fashion until well into the future and I would never want my daughter to go through what I went through because she would. And others will/would too.

MH: Finally, what is your message to the girls of Canada who have big dreams of their own? What would you tell them?

 * AM: In terms of modelling, this story is what happened to me without a doubt. I know many more people (famous and non) that can relate to this story. If you girls out there want to do this well (like me) you may actually have to do this for your own fulfillment and to experience something you may feel you need to before you can focus on anything else...so do it. But I can assure you...this is a make or break you industry. I will still have the hurts and upsets with me so did it make or break me? I am not sure. Britney Spears...did the industry make or break her? Again, I am not sure.


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Talk:Andrea Muizelaar on fashion, anorexia, and life after 'Top Model'

Original reporting notes
Online interview with Andrea Muizelaar (in Whitby, Ontario) conducted by Mike Halterman (in Tampa, Florida) on November 25, 2007. TheCustomOfLife 00:07, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Good work. Bawolff ☺☻ 04:45, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Excellent questions! I was impressed. --24.15.12.96 05:13, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
User talk:83.67.56.138

Welcome
Thanks for experimenting with Wikinews. Your test worked, and has now been reverted or removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing in articles may disrupt the site's working and will be reverted quickly. , welcome to Wikinews! Please refrain from using content pages for testing. Here are a few good links for newcomers on how to edit Wikinews:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 00:32, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
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Fake vs Amateur
I assume you're the same idiot as made about 70 vandal edits to Wikipedia before getting permanently banned. I just called The Daily Mail, and they don't have an "Andrew Clinton" on staff, so you're found out as a liar.

Of course, you could be freelance - but no respectable paper would touch a story where you deliberately vandalise a project like Wikipedia to prove a point.

As to me? I'm not a "fake" journalist, but an "amateur". --Brian McNeil / talk 10:48, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:83.67.56.138


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Talk:Dow Jones Industrial closes above 14,000 for first time ever

Interwiki
Could you please add 'es' interwiki? Thanks - Jurock (reply) 01:15, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * done.  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 01:18, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


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Health experts suspect bromide poisoning in Angolan disease outbreak

November 26, 2007 Health authorities from the World Health Organization (WHO) and the government of Angola have revealed that bromide poisoning may be the source of a mystery illness first reported in early October.

The outbreak of over 400 reported cases of a neurological disorder was centred in the Cacuaco district of Angola's capital city Luanda. A majority of the afflicted have been children under the age of 15. There have been no deaths attributed directly to the disorder.

According to a statement in the state-run AngolaPress, symptoms have included "sleepiness, blear-eyedness, dizziness and difficulty to speak, walk and extreme tiredness." WHO described the drowsiness as being so severe that the patient would require "painful stimuli" to be awoken. Results from laboratory tests carried out in London and Munich indicated elevated levels of bromide present in the blood and kitchen salt samples examined. It is suspected that sodium chloride (table salt) may have been contaminated with sodium bromide, an agent used in pharmaceuticals and industry.

However, authorities caution that more investigation is required to determine the source and cause of the illness. Consequently, further testing of blood, food and water has been initiated.

On Wednesday, WHO dispatched additional technical and support personnel to Angola to assist local health officials.


text:
User talk:69.113.11.96

Welcome
Welcome!

69.113.11.96, welcome to Wikinews! Thank you for your contributions I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews:
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If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Thanks for experimenting with Wikinews. Your test worked, and has now been reverted or removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing in articles may disrupt the site's working and will be reverted quickly. Jcart1534 02:25, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:69.113.11.96


text:
Comments:Andrea Muizelaar on fashion, anorexia, and life after 'Top Model'

She seems like a very smart girl with a good head on her shoulders, and it's good to hear she is feeling better! I modeled for a little while and I found the same coldness that she speaks of. That doesn't mean it is true for everyone, but it is no easy gig. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.45.91.76 (talk) 00:07, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

THis is my comment subject
and this is the body. sorry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.2.87.82 (talk) 21:16, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Andrea is WACK
"i will not let you down, honest to God"

4 months later, she left the industry? wtf? okay. shes wack. they let some anorexic bitch win?! stupid. alanna shelast was the perfect model. what a waste of time. she was some skinny ass bitch that had emotional breakdowns for no reason. you are wack andrea ;/

God, Andrea Muizelaar is such a joke of a person. I understand she wants to come out with all the harsh truths of what her time on CNTM was really like, as well as her battle with anorexia, but all I hear is an immature, spiteful little girl. For someone who is so happy, confident and sure of herself, she comes off as the same upset, angry and moronic little girl she claims to have left behind. Is this interview even real? Look I'm sorry you were unsuccessful but learn how to talk with the sureness you claim to have. You only appear foolish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.232.169.174 (talk) 05:15, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

wow.
why is she so negative and bitter? this interview discusts me. grow up.

Love it. She is a goddess.

I wish I could write to this girl personally. She sounds bitter and so ungrateful. She is skinny, lacks confidence and grace. Sisi would have been the best. Thank God she's gone back to obscurity...and how stupid is she? She does not even recognise the iconic Twiggy....of course Twiggy was the one who personified the skinny look (go and read fashion history, you country bumpkin)...ask anyone who Andrea is - no one would know. Stupid, stupid bitch knocking down plus-sized women. -03:49, 4 September 2010 (UTC)


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Youths riot in Paris suburb, attack police station

November 26, 2007 In six hours, dozens of young people in Sarcelles and Villiers-le-Bel, a suburb of Paris, France, attacked a police station, burned cars and broke into shops after two teenagers were killed in a car crash with a police vehicle. The station was pelted with Molotov cocktails and guns were fired at officers inside the station.

A police captain, who tried to negotiate with the youths, had to be hospitalized with serious injuries to the face. The youths also set several cars ablaze. According to police, at least 21 officers were injured in rioting in Villiers-le-Bel and Arnouville. The police station in Villiers-le-Bel was set on fire and the one in Arnouville was ransacked.

Two hours before, a police patrol vehicle collided with two teenagers riding a stolen green mini cross motorbike without helmets. The teens, aged 15 and 16, were both killed in the accident which took place in Villiers-le-Bel.

Didier Vaillant, mayor of Villers-le-Bel, appealed for calm and assured there will be "an impartial investigation, for full light to be shed" on the accident.

Omar Sehhouli, brother to one of the dead teenagers, said the unrest "was not violence but an expression of rage."


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User talk:70.231.241.114

Please only write news articles. Wikinews is not for rants. Bawolff ☺☻ 05:49, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:70.231.241.114


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User talk:24.15.12.96

Do I know you from somewhere? I noticed you were really interested in Top Model stuff, and I didn't know if I had encountered you before, either on Wiki or on another television website (I go to a couple). TheCustomOfLife 05:58, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:24.15.12.96


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Wikinews:CommonsTicker/20071126

26 November

title: Wikinews:CommonsTicker/20071126


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European runners win the 2007 Taipei 101 Run Up

November 26, 2007 Over 2,000 people, world-class runners, corporate teams and individual people, participated in the challenge to climb 2046 steps (390 meters height), 91 floors at the 3rd 2007 Taipei 101 Run Up yesterday. Before the race, the host (Taipei 101) donated NT$204,600 to the Foundation of the 21st Summer Deaflympics Organizing Committee for the preparation fund of the 21st Summer Deaflympics.

Australian cyclist Paul Crake wasn't able to defend his championship this year, as he is currently trying to recover from a spinal injury, suffered in New Zealand last year, which may leave his legs paralyzed. The host invited Italian runner Marco De Gasperi, the champion of the 2007 Pirelli Tower Run Up, to participate in the 91-floors race instead.

De Gasperi won the title in the Men's Elite Group with a time of 11 min and 39.48 seconds. Austrian runner Andrea Mayr successfully retained her title in Women's Elite Group with a time of 12 min and 54.07 seconds. This was good attendance from both the public and media for the races. After the races in the Elite and Self-Challenge classes, the race in the Enterprise class started with participation from Synnex Taiwan, Continental Engineering Corporation, Leadtek, L'Oréal Taiwan, Taipei City Government, Taipei City Fire Department (TCFD), Taiwan Farmers' Party (led by former KMT Legislator Chun-hsiung Ko), and school members from "Cross-Strait Elite Students' Group" at "Campus of Creative Sports Industry for Cross-Strait College Students" by Chinese Development Foundation and Mainland Affairs Council of Executive Yuan.

With the Direct General of TCFD Kuang-hua Hsiung's lead and witnesses by media and public, TCFD showed their actual strengths with their greatest team-works and finally won the Champion of Enterprise Group even though they preceded the champion award to Changhua Bank, former Title Sponsor and Champion of Enterprise Group at 2006 in this race. Two teams from National Central University (NCU Taiwan) also won the 2nd and 3rd place in this race with current Principal of NCU Taiwan Dr. Luo-chuang Li's lead.

Even though "Cross-Strait Elite Students' Group" was included in the Enterprise class, but this friendship match was set for improving Cross-Strait (China, Hong Kong, and Taiwan) relationships by Chinese Development Foundation. A student named Wang showed his best performance and helped his team (Department of Social Work, National Taipei University) won the group champion in this friendship race.


text:
Talk:STS-116 launch scrubbed

Please change the patch to Image:Sts-116-patch.png. Cheers! Siebrand 08:43, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * ✅ --SVTCobra 09:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:STS-116 launch scrubbed


text:
User talk:Smartguy~enwikinews

Welcome
Thanks for experimenting with Wikinews. Your test worked, and has now been reverted or removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing in articles may disrupt the site's working and will be reverted quickly. , welcome to Wikinews! Please refrain from using content pages for testing. Here are a few good links for newcomers on how to edit Wikinews:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Jacques Divol 08:46, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
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Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

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Renamed
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title: User talk:Smartguy~enwikinews


text:
Australia Votes 2007: Outgoing Deputy PM steps down from party leadership

November 26, 2007

The outgoing Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, Mark Vaile today announced that he will resign as leader of the National party, following the Liberal/National party coalition government's defeat on Saturday. Mr Vaile took leadership of the National party after John Anderson's resignation in July, 2005.

With his wife by his side, an emotional Mark Vaile said that he had considered his future in wake of the coalition's defeat and that he believed it was time for change within the National party.

"Over the last couple of days and particularly as I drove to Canberra this morning with Wendy to come down and start packing up my office to make way for the incoming deputy prime minister, we reflected on a whole range of issues," he said.

"We are at a point in the history of politics in Australia where we believe and I believe it is time for an opportunity for a bit of a change in the leadership of our party. I certainly don't want to stand in the way of that."

Mr Vaile said that the past 11 or so years had been particularly difficult for his family. "It's been a long 10 or 11 years for my family whilst I've been away from home and they deserve a bit of time and that's what I want to give them," said Mr Vaile.

Mr Vaile said he accepted some of the responsibility for the coalition's defeat on the weekend. "As the leader of my party I shoulder my share of the responsibility for the outcome on Saturday," he said.

Mr Vaile also dismissed Liberal Wilson Tuckey's suggestion that the Liberals and Nationals should amalgamate. He said he continued to oppose the idea.

"As far as amalgamation is concerned I've opposed it in the past and I'll oppose it in the future," he said.

"My belief is that regional Australia is entitled to their unique voice and that's always been given to them by the Nationals and we have had proposals in terms of amalgamation, I've argued against it then and I'll argue against it in the future."

Mr Vaile will continue to serve the remainder of his term for his constituency of Lyne on the backbench.


text:
Talk:Youths riot in Paris suburb, attack police station

Just a point : "French police station attacked by youths" is just a little part from an event : a reaction about an accident involving Police, France is NOT burning. In France, the french news are speaking more of this riot as a whole thing in a small suburb town in France near Paris. It's seems english speaking media are more interrested by the attack of the police station but it's a cultural bias. Jacques Divol 09:10, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't know—an open attack on a police station sounds like a complete breakdown of law and order. I did change it lead with riot in suburb. I can't see how molotov cocktails and gunfire at a police station should not be mentioned in the headline. --SVTCobra 10:29, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * title more accurate, thanks a lot Jacques Divol 11:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Stolen
I haven't heard anything about it being Stolen. Anyone have any references to that? 65.24.55.197 01:15, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


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Four Afghan civilians killed by landmine

November 26, 2007

Four civilians driving southwest of Kabul were killed after a landmine exploded underneath their car. The head of criminal investigation in the Kabul police force, Ali Shah Paktiawal issued the following statement on the matter: "It was an old landmine that exploded in the Char Asiab District this morning and killed four people. It was not a roadside bomb or a recently planted mine."

There are over 100,000 unexploded landmines in Afghanistan, planted in recent and older conflicts by the Soviet military and the Taliban. An average of sixty people a month are killed by mines.


text:
Talk:Four Afghan civilians killed by landmine

Even though the sources are different wire services, they are very clearly the same report. Nearly identical. A truly independent source should be sought. --SVTCobra 11:27, 26 November 2007 (UTC)


text:
Comments:French government reveals industry sponsored anti-piracy body

time for the french to move to sweden?


text:
User talk:82.111.23.180

Welcome
Welcome!

82.111.23.180, welcome to Wikinews! Thank you for your contributions I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Your test has now been removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing in articles may disrupt the site's working and will be reverted quickly. Jcart1534 14:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:82.111.23.180


text:
User talk:124.13.20.179

First off, we really appreciate your contribution.

But sometimes users submit an article from somewhere else, not realizing that Wikinews cannot keep copy-and-paste versions of articles which are published elsewhere under a restrictive copyright. An article created in this way is a copyright violation, and Wikinews policy is to erase these even if they are excellent article ideas.

Another problem which sometimes comes up is press releases: Press releases are sometimes excellent sources, but they do not qualify as unbiased news articles so they can't be published as they are. Two key things to remember about press releases is that they're usually written to represent the viewpoint of an involved party (Thus likely running foul of our Neutral Point of View policy). And second, they are generally covered by copyright which can conflict with our open editing approach.

A better way to get an article on an exciting subject published here is to write an original article following the guidelines described in writing an article, or to write a brief explanation of the subject and include the url address of articles or websites to use as sources. If you are part of the story that the article is about, you may also wish to consider requesting an interview rather than writing the article yourself.

Thanks again! Jcart1534 15:43, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:124.13.20.179


text:
User talk:169.139.177.40

Welcome
Welcome!

169.139.177.40, welcome to Wikinews! Thank you for your contributions I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews:
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Here are some other hints and tips:

 * I would recommend that you get a username. You don't have to log in to read or edit articles on Wikinews, but creating an account is quick, free and non-intrusive, requires no personal information, and there are many benefits of having a username.  (If you edit without a username, your IP address is used to identify you instead.)

 * When using talk pages (the "collaboration" tab at the top of the page), or the comments pages (tab "opinions"), please sign your name at the end of your messages by typing four tildes (~~). This will automatically produce your username (or IP address) and the date.

If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Thanks for experimenting with Wikinews. Your test worked, and has now been reverted or removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing in articles may disrupt the site's working and will be reverted quickly. Jcart1534 15:55, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Please don't vandalize
Please stop vandalizing the articles or you will be blocked from editing. Jcart1534 15:58, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:169.139.177.40


text:
Comments:Youths riot in Paris suburb, attack police station

Lol, sorry, but this is pretty darn funny! I'm at school reading this and my friend here just cracked up! I know it's not a laughing matter, though... Still, those teenagers are pretty stupid!

I wish everything resumes to peace and we don't see the same shameful images we saw two years ago. I think is time for the French society to have a strong debate about the social issues causing this riots, as I've read, cars burnings is quite common in France and Spain, most of the incidents occur in the same working class neighborhoods. Letting things to cool down, as it happend in 2005 after 3 weeks of riots is not the best way to solve a problem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.223.42.165 (talk) 18:48, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

I know I'm going to be labeled a racist here...
But am I the only one that's noticed that the accident victims and rioters are Muslim... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.158.91.134 (talk) 18:55, 1 December 2007 (UTC)


text:
Middle East peace conference begins in Annapolis, Maryland

November 27, 2007 Senior officials from nearly 50 countries and international organizations have gathered in Annapolis, Maryland near Washington, D.C. for a conference aimed at launching final-status peace negotiations between Israel and the Palestinians. The meeting, the product of months of Middle East diplomacy by the Bush administration, is intended to reopen peace talks between the two sides for the first time in seven years.

The conference, hosted by the United States Department of State, has been dubbed the Annapolis Conference. "Our purpose here in Annapolis is not to conclude an agreement. Rather, it is to launch negotiations between the Israelis and Palestinians," said President George W. Bush at the first formal session of the conference. "The time is right, the cause is just, and with hard effort, I know they can succeed."

Bush said that direct negotiations for a Palestinian state will begin December 12. "Such a state will provide Palestinians with the chance to lead lives of freedom, purpose and dignity," Bush said. He hopes a solution be found before he leaves office.

As the summit got underway, thousands of people demonstrated in Gaza City. "Let them go to a thousand conferences, we say in the name of the Palestinian people that we did not authorise anyone to sign any agreement that harms our rights," said Mahmoud al-Zahar, a co-founder of Hamas. Mahmoud Abbas has no right to make concessions to the Israelis he said. "Abbas is a traitor" and "Death to Israel, death to America," the crowd chanted. The Prime Minster of Israel, Ehud Olmert said: "This time it's different because we are going to have lots of participants in what I hope will launch a serious process of negotiations between us and the Palestinians."

Mahmoud Abbas, President of the Palestinian National Authority said: "We have a great deal of hope that this conference will produce... expanded negotiations over all permanent-status issues that would lead to a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinian people."

Observers have noted that the summit has attracted the participation of Saudi Arabia and Syria—two Arab states that do not recognize Israel—and say that this is critical to chances for success.

The conference began informally last night with a dinner hosted by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. "We've come together this week because we share a common goal: two democratic states—Israel and Palestine—living side by side in peace and security," Bush said in an address to the participants. "I'm encouraged by the presence of so many here. Achieving this goal requires the commitment of the international community, including the United States," he continued.


text:
Kevin DuBrow, lead singer of "Quiet Riot", found dead

November 26, 2007 Kevin DuBrow, lead singer of American heavy metal band Quiet Riot, was found dead at his home in Las Vegas, Drummer Frankie Banali confirmed. He was 52. The cause is not yet known. He is survived by his wife Andrea Barber.

Born on October 29, 1955, he recorded songs with Quiet Riot including "Cum On Feel The Noize" and "Bang Your Head (Metal Health)".

In 2004, DuBrow recorded a collection of cover versions for his solo album, In for the Kill.


text:
Comments:US to reduce troops in Iraq by 5,000 in December

This is a step in the right direction for the US Military, at the very least. However, 5,000 is not a very big chunk of 163,000.


text:
User:TheFearow/Editcounter

Month-Graph:yes Namespacesum-Graph:yes Weekday-Graph:yes Hour-Graph:yes Usercontributions:yes

title: User:TheFearow/Editcounter


text:
Comments:Baseball pitcher Joe Kennedy dies

Joe Kennedy's death
How very sad this is. I have seen him pitch and he had a bright future ahead of him. My sincerest condolences to his family. May God give them the strength to go forward.

Jackie Bowman Wichita, KS

Joe Kennedy bobble head doll
Going back to when he played minor league ball for Tampa Bay (Hudson Valley Renegades). I just found two of them on a closet. Was wondering if the family would like to have them.


text:
User:Sean Heron/UNFCCC

I´ll be collecting Links and Materials on the UN Climate Conference in Bali, that I´ll be attending, here. Also, of course I welcome all suggestions on Interview partners, or topics I should work on, as well as offers of help or collaboration.

Resources
User:Sean_Heron/UNFCCC/Recources

Collaboration
Please leave offers of collaboration, or suggestions regarding what I should be doing at the conference, here.

Whats it about (in my own words)
User:Sean_Heron/UNFCCC/Whats_it_about

title: User:Sean Heron/UNFCCC


text:
User:Bawolff bot/status

Running

title: User:Bawolff bot/status


text:
User talk:Mr X from under a rock

Welcome
, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Thanks for experimenting with Wikinews. Your test worked, and has now been reverted or removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing in articles may disrupt the site's working and will be reverted quickly. Jcart1534 01:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
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title: User talk:Mr X from under a rock


text:
Students protest Holocaust denier's appearance at Oxford debate

November 27, 2007 A group of about 500 demonstrators protested the presence of David Irving, an English historian and convicted Holocaust denier, at a debate at Oxford University on Monday. The students broke into the Oxford Union building where the debate was being held and delayed the debate for over an hour.

British riot police were on the scene to maintain the peace. The demonstrators gathered in front of the building hours before the debate was to begin and later staged a sit-down protest in the building's halls. Only half of the people who had tickets to the debate were able to enter the building due to the protests. David Irving and Nick Griffin, a leader of the far-right British National Party who also participated in the debate, were forced to be separated and placed in different rooms. One protester was reportedly injured after a blow to the head. The topic of the debate was free speech. It was organized by the Oxford Union, who voted Friday to allow Irving to speak, amid controversy. The protest was organized by the activist group Unite Against Fascism, as well as members of the Oxford University Student Union and Oxford's Jewish and Muslim societies.

Luke Tryl, president of the Oxford Union, defended the decision to allow Irving to speak, saying that the purpose of the debate was to discuss the limits of free speech, not to give the speakers a platform from which to endorse their views. Ned Temko, chief political correspondent of The Observer, disagreed, saying, "It's not a question about giving them a platform, it's about giving them credibility."

From February to December 2006, David Irving was jailed in Austria after being convicted of identifying with the Nazi Party. He has written several books which deny the Holocaust and support the views of Adolf Hitler. In 1998, an English court found that he is "an active Holocaust denier; that he is anti-Semitic and racist and that he associates with right-wing extremists who promote neo-Nazism." Nick Griffin is the National Chairman of the British National Party, a nationalist group known for its anti-immigration and anti-Muslim policies. In 1998, he was also convicted of denying the Holocaust.


text:
Comments:Kevin DuBrow, lead singer of "Quiet Riot", found dead

He certainly will be missed. ~Planoneck~ 03:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, God! Wikinews made me know this. Kevin "Bang Your Head" forever!--TheFEARgod 13:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)


text:
Comments:Students protest Holocaust denier's appearance at Oxford debate

Why have Irving talk about free speech?
It doesn't make much sense. If it was just about the issue of free speech and debate solely about that, one could have had anyone else argue that side. There doesn't seem to be any reason to use Irving other than to generate controversy. And the notion that letting him take part in a debate at a major university won't give him additional credibility is absurd. JoshuaZ 03:56, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * The obvious reason you'd pick these two are that Griffin is the leader of a "real" political party continually denied a platform by the mainstream, and that Irving is one of the few prominent (god help us) Britons to have been imprisoned on free-speech charges.
 * Inviting them to speak is still unbelievably stupid, but there's a comprehensible reason to pick them... Shimgray 18:21, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Freedom
Although such people are disgusting souls with little grasp of rational reality we must remember that maintaing freedom of speech is only viable if we allow even the more crazed wing-nuts to speak as well. Excluding a particular topic from this Umbrella of Freedom is the thin edge of wedge. I disagree very much with Irving, but I do so with many other politicians as well who are allowed to speak their minds- sometimes even to listening audiences. -Farooq Jahan, Surrey, Canada

 * I agree. Fephisto 16:48, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

My gripe
I am astonished that the students of these bastions for free thought are so opposed to free speech. The same happened at Columbia University in NY, a little over a year ago. I mean, really, these students, who purport to be indundating their minds with the sum of human knowledge (not a reference to WP), don't think that they themselves can withstand the persuasive characteristics of a couple of anti-semites/racists? Why else would they disrupt these things; they're the only ones in attendence. Open minds, don't think so. --SVTCobra 22:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * The matter is more complicated than that. There really is a dilemma about how to interact with people who have no interest in open and honest discourse. The case you compare it to was a particularly good example; Achmenijad didn't care about having an intellectual dialogue with the students at Columbia. He was playing for propaganda purposes back in the Muslim world. In that regard, he got exactly what he wanted. There's a serious problem giving platforms to people to talk when they aren't really interested in talking with you about issues. JoshuaZ 23:59, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Actually I wasn't referring to when Ahmadinejad came to Columbia. He was allowed his free speech and the protests were outside. I am referring to when Jim Gilchrist was invited to speak at Columbia. Students charged the stage and shut the whole thing down.
 * Griffin and Irving were to debate against another team (students?) in this case, which to me sounds like an opportunity to expose their logic instead of just letting them write their books and speak in front of audiences that already agree with them. --SVTCobra 18:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Ridiculous
A country that boasts of freedom of speech for everyone and is blocking someone to speak his mind at one of World's best Universities for education, where such narrow-minded people keep freedom of speech aside. What a shame that denying holocaust is thought as being superior than defying religious figures of Islam. Pathetic!

Sarfaraz Abbasi Karach-Pakistan —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.125.143.69 (talk) 23:48, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Did the Spanish inquisition really take place, or has the story been invented to discredit the Catholic Church in Spain? Such a question can, without a doubt, be debated by historians, who should have little difficulty in presenting their facts and arguments.

I hold that whatever arguments are used to refute or accept this statement are the same ones that apply to the murder of several million people in Nazi Germany, Poland and Russia during the Second World War.

By the same measure, if historians must refrain from investigation, or temper their discussions so as to avoid hurting feelings, they should not be allowed deny the Inquisition, or such events as the Soviet Gulags where some 25,000,000 were reportedly murdered. Personally I don’t believe that any of these atrocities can be denied, though they can be manipulated or publicised for propaganda purposes, but I do feel strongly that any person who feels that they may have something to add to the discussion should not be prevented from doing so. That is what free speech is all about. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.77.158.229 (talk) 18:25, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


text:
User talk:לערי ריינהארט/monobook.js

explanations
→ [ wikt:yi:user_talk:Gangleri/monobook.js|uselang=en#explanations] ←

Gangleri · Th · T 04:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

comments
...

title: User talk:לערי ריינהארט/monobook.js


text:
Talk:Students protest Holocaust denier's appearance at Oxford debate

I removed this: Nick Griffin, the other participant in the debate, has similar views regarding the Holocaust, and has even criticized Irving for admitting that up to four million Jews might have died in the exterminations. It may be true but it is not in the sources. Please cite sources for all material. --SVTCobra 06:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Article says "Oxford University debate". Note that the Oxford Union is not actually a part of the University, despite a large overlap in membership. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.86.168.207 (talk) 09:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * My photos from last night are here, if any of them would be useful - let me know and I'll put them on Commons. Shimgray 18:15, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * WRT the general thrust of the article, I'd say it's missing the point a bit. The main target of the protest was Griffin, not Irving - Griffin is seen generally as an actual threat, whilst Irving gets more contempt. Certainly the signs at the protest were much more BNP-directed than Holocaust-denial directed, and in many ways the protest against Irving was an afterthought - if it had been Irving alone, you'd probably have got a picket and not much more. Shimgray 18:25, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I'd say that more than one of your photos can be used in this article. I'd say choose a few yourself and if you don't put them in the article yourself, just let us know here what the image names are. This article is not my specialty, but please, if the article is off-base a bit by centering on Irving, won't you please edit it to bring it into balance. If you add anything observed by your own attendance at the event, please provide detailed notes on this collaboration page and add the to the article (in the sources section). Cheers, --SVTCobra 18:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Four up - flag-waving; banner; church spire (I love that shot); police horses. I'm afraid I'm swamped with other writing tonight, so I can't help do much work with the article beyond point out the direction! Shimgray 19:34, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I went with the flag one because it shows more of the protesters. --SVTCobra 08:55, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Category request
editprotected Following this discussion with user:Brian McNeil, would someone mind adding Category:University of Oxford? Thanks, Bencherlite (talk) 15:30, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
 * ✅ Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 20:53, 5 December 2009 (UTC)


text:
Second night of rioting in Paris suburb, Villiers-le-Bel

November 27, 2007 Monday night more than sixty French police officers have been left injured after a second night of running battles with youths in Paris suburb, Villiers-le-Bel. The rioting began Sunday night after two teenagers on a motorbike died after a collision with a police patrol vehicle.

36 vehicles were set ablaze, including a garbage truck and a police vehicle. A witness told Reuters that police were pelted with stones, petrol bombs and large firecrackers. Police responded with tear gas, rubber bullets and paint guns. BBC reports that two schools, a library and shops were badly damaged as violence spread to five towns in the Val-d'Oise department. President Nicolas Sarkozy, who is on a state visit to China, urged calm. "I call on everyone to calm down and let the justice system decide who was responsible," he said in Beijing.

In a final tally of Sunday's violence, officials said 28 cars and five buildings were set ablaze, including a police station. There were 26 police and fire officers injured. Nine people were arrested on Sunday.

In 2005, France saw more than two weeks of civil unrest in violence that was also triggered by the death of two teenagers.


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User:Zimbabweed

See user page on Wikipedia.

w:User:Zimbabweed

title: User:Zimbabweed


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User talk:Zimbabweed

.

title: User talk:Zimbabweed


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User:Tibor

For contact please visit: w:nl:Overleg gebruiker:Tibor.

title: User:Tibor


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Talk:MS Explorer cruise ship passengers are safe

Is it too late to add an image? Commons has this excellent photo of the MS Explorer. --SVTCobra 15:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)


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UK prime minister says donations were not lawfully declared

November 27, 2007 The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, Gordon Brown has announced that donations made to his political party, the Labour Party were "not lawfully declared" as they were donated through a middleman. According to UK law, all donations over £50,000 must be declared along with the name of the donator and all donations made through middlemen must declare the original donator. David Abraham officially donated the money, which totaled almost £600,000, through 3 third parties. They have been named as; Ray Ruddick who donated £196,850 since 2003, Janet Kidd, who has donated £185,000 since 2003 and John McCarthy, who has donated £202,125 since 2004.

Gordon Brown said he had "no knowledge" of these donations and said "they can not be justified" and that it will be returned. Brown said that although this practice has happened for some years, he was first aware of it on Saturday evening. "The money was not lawfully declared so it will be returned," he said.

As well as returning the money, the general secretary of the Labour Party has stood down as a result of this incident. This scandal emerged just months after it was announced there will be no charges in the cash for honours inquiry, which was related to donations to the Labour Party as well as other political parties.

This could be another blow to the Labour Party, who appear to be facing a sharp decline in popularity, with some polls suggesting they are even less popular than in the last days of Tony Blair's premiership, despite a large surge in popularity when Brown came to power.

The acting leader of the Liberal Democrats, Vince Cable, whose party suffered from the increase in Labour's popularity said "an enormous can of worms had been opened up" and that the UK government should have introduced new regulations on the funding of political parties.


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User talk:Anonymous101

If you are an administrator please archive an article listed at WN:TOARCHIVE (or more than one)

Click here to view my talk page archives or click here to submit a new message

Real IRA story
Hi Anonymous101, I was going to add a merge template to your version of the story before you re-directed it. I think it was slightly premature of you to redirect your version (not that I'm complaining) as it has strengths mine didn't have such as Martin McGuinness quotes which was missing from mine. Sorry I didn't mean to jump you at the lights, and would have welcomed collabaration on the story if I had known their was another editor working on the story.KTo288 (talk)

Talk:World-premiere of the restored extended-cut of Fritz Lang's "Metropolis" on arte in HDTV!
Hi, although your page displays an away-message, I would like to ask you again to have a quick look on my current news. You did this with my "Simpsons in HD" news and it would be nice of you to do this again :). Thanks in advance, --Andreas -horn- Hornig (talk) 15:39, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

privs
'''Note! Your privileges on English Wikinews have been reduced.'''
 * Under the Privilege expiry policy (enacted October 13, 2012) the rights held by your user account have been reduced due to inactivity, or lack of privilege use.

 * Point 4 of the Privilege expiry policy provides for fast-tracking reacquisition of privileges. We all understand that real-life commitments can severely curtail the level of commitment you can give to Wikinews; the privilege reduction is in no way intended as a reflection on your past work, or to imply you are unwelcome. The aim in curtailing privileges is to address security risks, and concern that a long period of inactivity means you may not be up-to-date with current policy and practices.

Print Edition Wikinews January 2, 2017
Hello. Latest version of the Wikinews Print Edition is out. January 2, 2017. Agastya Chandrakant  ⚽ 🏆 🎾 🎬 🎤 📰  09:17, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Print Edition Wikinews January 9, 2017
Hello. Latest version of the Wikinews Print Edition is out. January 9, 2017. Agastya Chandrakant  ⚽ 🏆 🎾 🎬 🎤 📰  19:05, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Anonymous101


text: Talk:Middle East peace conference begins in Annapolis, Maryland


text:
Talk:UK prime minister says donations were not lawfully declared

This is the first article I have written please give me feedback on my talk page so I can improve Anonymous101 18:17, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This is a great first article. Just don't be over-protective if there are some things that need to fixed. For one, always get at least two independent sources. --SVTCobra 19:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * THANKS FOR THE COMMENT --Anonymous101 18:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


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Wikinews:CommonsTicker/20071127

27 November

title: Wikinews:CommonsTicker/20071127


text:
User talk:82.32.52.223

stop publishing an article that is not ready. --SVTCobra 18:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

UK prime minister says donations were not lawfully declared
It's published now. --SVTCobra 19:08, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:82.32.52.223


text: File:2010 Winter Olympics logo.svg

title: File:2010 Winter Olympics logo.svg


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Mascots for Vancouver 2010 Olympics based on native mythology

November 27, 2007

The mascots of the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, British Columbia were just announced. Based on mythological characters, they are Miga, Quatchi and Sumi.

Miga, a sea bear who lives in the ocean with her family pod near Tofino, and Quatchi, a young sasquatch, represent the Olympics, while Sumi represents the Paralympics that follow afterward.

A sea bear is a First Nations creature, part killer whale, part Kermode spirit bear. While illustrated as being taller than the other characters, the mascot costume of Quatchi is the same height as the other two characters.

The third mascot, Sumi, an animal-guardian spirit, is a Thunderbird that wears the hat of an orca. Sumi will be the mascot of the Paralympics.

In 2004, the Times Colonist suggested a marmot might be a good mascot, except for their winter hibernation. The organizers still chose one, named Mukmuk, as their "virtual only" counterpart.

After the Olympic logo design was leaked the day before the 2005 announcement, organizers were extremely tight lipped until today's news conference at a Surrey school. They apparently didn't do any development on the characters on internet-enabled computers, to ensure the images or information wouldn't slip out.

The characters were designed by the Vancouver and Los Angeles-based Meomi Design. Their characters have been used as part of iGoogle, a customizable homepage option from Google, as well as Electronic Arts, Girls Inc., Time Out Magazine, Cyworld, Nick Jr., Bang-on Clothing, and CBC4Kids.

The Vancouver organizers have a CDN$46-million merchandising program; previous Olympics have made as much as $100 million from mascot-related products.

René Fasel, Chairman of the International Olympic Committee's (IOC) Coordination Commission commented that "The IOC welcomes these imaginative new additions to the Olympic Family as they take their place on the world stage today - a symbol of the Games and of Canada. We know that when Olympians, Paralympians and visitors from around the globe arrive in British Columbia at Games time, they will fall under the spell of these captivating characters."

The characters first appearance will be at a Bay store in the Lower Mainland; HBC is a major sponsor of the Games. They will then make their way to schools, take a break through the Christmas season, and fly to Ottawa for the Winterlude festival.

Response to designs
Many respondents on the CBC.ca forums complained that the characters were poorly designed, and objected to the anime influence. One early commenter posted: "these mascots do represent BC very well... someone must have been smoking A LOT of BC bud when they created these things. Maybe the dealer was that marmot that no one can see."

One poster suggests the Miga character is inaccurate: "Family pods are residential (not transients or offshore!) who prefer sheltered water." According to the poster, they are "rarely seen" on the west coast of Vancouver Island, where Tofino is.

One forum poster took offense to the characters: "As a person ... of full First Nations descent I want to say that these mascots are offensive."

Some felt that they were a nice change of pace, from the "regular run-of-the-mill Canadiana that has been recycled over and over again. Vancouver is a new city for new things and fresh faces, a place for experimentation... I think we need to remember that these characters are for the kids and for fun. What kind of a statement would trotting out another red and white beaver and moose make? That we are imaginative with new ideas? They'll grow on us."

Earlier logo design a dud say some
Native offense to the Vancouver Olympic mascots would not be unheard of.

While the Olympic logo was applauded by various First Nations and Inuit leaders, including the Nunavut premier, one criticized the image for the Games as looking like the video game character Pac Man. Local leaders complained it didn't represent their cultures, but the culture of the far north; interestingly the logo designer was of sure Haida ancestry.

Nunavut Commissioner Peter Irniq complained that traditional inuksuit (inuksuk) never had a head, legs, or arms. Irniq says that the logo resembles an inunguat, which is a much more recent invention made by non-Inuit people in Nunavut.

Roughly 1600 designs were submitted. Similarly, the mascot design process was open to all, but there was no word yet on numbers of entrants.

The British Columbian chapter of the Society of Graphic Designers of Canada took issue with the "token" amount of money paid to the winner, compared to the work done and the fact the images were those of VANOC in perpetuity, with no usage fees paid. VANOC later approached the Society, to set minimum standards for the design.


text: File:2010 miga.jpg

title: File:2010 miga.jpg


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Talk:Mascots for Vancouver 2010 Olympics based on native mythology

I hope you are going to provide sources for all the content you are adding. You barely had any sources to begin with. And I still don't understand why the Youtube video is there. --SVTCobra 20:25, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't know what you think is unreferenced.

 * The YouTube video is in reference to the logo for the Games. --  Zanimum 20:42, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Well, like the entire last section. What is that? from a chat room? Hardly a news source. I get that the video talks about Inukshuk, which ostensibly is the inspiration for the logo, but he does not mention the olympics in the video and in the CBC source he goes on to say that the logo should not be called Inukshuk.--SVTCobra 21:00, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * The responses to the designs are from the CBC.ca response board. Until now, I didn't realise that I hadn't posted the source. However, I had mentioned the source in the body of the text.

 * I've removed the video link. The inuksuit (inuksuk) is what he shows in the video, but the logo is of an inunguat. This is what the CBC article says, this is what my paragraph has always said. --  Zanimum 21:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * There is no mention of iGoogle in any of the sources, yet it is the article. But I really ought not have to hunt like this. --SVTCobra 21:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Google was a client of Meomi Design. iGoogle has a skin with characters exactly in this style. --  Zanimum 21:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * With the OR note below are you saying that you work for Meomi? Otherwise, I don't understand how this sources the iGoogle reference. But nevermind that. I think it would be better if you don't publish right away and instead wait until you have your article fully developed and sourced. Afterall, it is an article that I do want to see on Wikinews. Cheers, --SVTCobra 21:53, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

 * No, I don't work for Meomi. But it is just obvious that, since Google Doodles never are in the Meomi style, and none of the tutorial videos are in Meomi's style, the only other illustrations on the site are on iGoogle, and the Teahouse illustrations are in the same style, that chances are this is what she did for them. This LiveJournal confirms it. --  Zanimum 14:28, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

OR
Google was a client of Meomi Design. iGoogle has a skin with characters exactly in this style. -- Zanimum 21:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)


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User talk:Samantha~enwikinews

Welcome
, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
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Posting
Please do not delete other users comments when posting.  —Fellow Wiki  Newsie 21:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Samantha. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Samantha~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:27, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:36, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Samantha~enwikinews


text:
NFL: Redskins' Sean Taylor dies

November 27, 2007 Sean Taylor, starting safety for the Washington Redskins, died this morning from injuries sustained in a shooting Monday in his Miami, Florida home. The hard-hitting safety was a Pro Bowl selection last season, and was second in the National Football League (NFL) this season in interceptions, with five.

Police responded to a 911 emergency call by Taylor's girlfriend at 1:45 a.m. EST (UTC-5) Monday morning. "According to a preliminary investigation, it appears that the victim was shot inside the home by an intruder," said Miami-Dade police in a statement. "We do not have a subject description at this time."

Taylor's father, Pedro Taylor released a statement on behalf of the family, stating "It is with deep regret that a young man had to come to his end so soon."

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said "We extend our heartfelt sympathy to Sean's family, friends, teammates, and the Redskins' organization. This is a terrible tragedy involving the loss of a young man who leaves behind many people struggling to understand it. Our office is staying in close contact with the Redskins to provide all appropriate support to the club and Sean's family. We also are working to determine the facts surrounding this tragic event."

Goodell added that all 32 NFL teams would honor the memory of the late Redskins' star.

Redskins' owner Daniel Snyder said, "This is the worst imaginable tragedy. Our thoughts and prayers are with Sean's family."

title: NFL: Redskins' Sean Taylor dies


text:
Talk:NFL: Redskins' Sean Taylor dies

well, i finished and published an article, to find someone else has written a shorter version of the same article. --wjmoore 22:32, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and redirected that article here. TheCustomOfLife 23:09, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:NFL: Redskins' Sean Taylor dies


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Comments:Second night of rioting in Paris suburb, Villiers-le-Bel

"Police responded with tear gas, rubber bullets and paint guns." That's hilarious. A bunch of kids pretty much take down the police force, and the police respond with paint guns. That pretty much echos how France wants to deal with terrorism too.
 * The paint guns are to "tag" culprits so when they catch them later they can't say "I wasn't there" because they have orange (or whatever color the French use) paint on them. --SVTCobra 17:05, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Rationale
So, what's the reason behind the riots? Social factors as last year? Fephisto 16:44, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * pretty much, I think. Though it was two years ago last time.--SVTCobra 17:05, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The years are just flying by. Fephisto 14:43, 29 November 2007 (UTC)


text:
MediaWiki:Searchsubtitle

You searched for $1. Consider also searching Wikipedia.

title: MediaWiki:Searchsubtitle


text:
User:Steschke

de:Benutzer:Steschke

title: User:Steschke


text:
British teacher faces 40 lashes over teddy bear's name

November 28, 2007

A British teacher working in Sudan was arrested on Sunday after parents allegedly complained that she had insulted Islam by naming a teddy bear. She faces a possible six months in prison, 40 lashes, or a fine.

A blasphemous bear?
Gillian Gibbons, 54, who had arrived at 's in August, polled the six and seven year old children in her class on what they should call the bear. Out of 8 names, including Abdullah and Hassan, the children overwhelmingly voted for Muhammad, by 20 votes to 3.

The bear was named back in September, as part of a teaching assignment. Each weekend a child would take it home, and write a diary of what they had done with the bear. These accounts were collected in a book with a picture of the teddy on the front, along with the message "My name is Muhammad". The bear itself was not labeled or marked with the name.

On Sunday, November 25, as a group of angry men chanted threats, the police arrested Ms Gibbons at her lodgings in the School. The book has also been seized, and police want to question the bear's 7 year old owner.

Since her arrest she has been moved from a local police station to Sudan's Criminal Investigation Department headquarters for interrogation. British consular officials were initially refused permission to see her, but were allowed to leave food and water. Colleagues from the school have however been able to visit, and consular access was eventually provided.

The British embassy in Khartoum has not been able to confirm whether the teacher has formally been charged.

School reaction
Director Robert Boulos has closed the school until January for fear of reprisals. "This is a very sensitive issue," he said.

He stressed that there was no deliberate insult: "This was a completely innocent mistake. Miss Gibbons would have never wanted to insult Islam." Mr Boulos was also confident she would not face a jail sentence.

However, in an statement sent to  last night, Unity High School announced that Mrs Gibbons' employment with the school was being terminated with immediate effect:
 * "The administration of Unity High School would like to proffer an official apology to all students and their families and to all Muslims for what was an individual action, which does not represent the sentiments of the administration or the school."

The Sudanese Media Centre, which is linked to the government, reports that that Ms Gibbons' actions had "met with wide condemnation by guardians of the students", but colleagues of Ms Gibbons claimed that no such complaints had been received by any of the children's parents.

Legal escalation
Sudan's Justice Minister, Mohammed Ali Mardhi, ordered General Prosecutor Salaheddin Abu Zaid to take personal charge of the case.

If charged with insulting the Prophet Muhammad, regarded as under Sudan's Sharia law, Ms Gibbons faces 40 lashes or six month's imprisonment - but the prosecutor has suggested that more serious charges could follow. He is continuing to question witnesses, and there are unconfirmed reports that blasphemy charges have already been brought, and that charges of sedition are being considered.

International reaction
The British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, expressed sorrow about what has happened to Ms Gibbons, and stated that contacts had been made with the Sudanese government and police to "clarify" the situation.

, Labour MP for, called for the release of Ms Gibbons, stating: "I hope that the Foreign Office will do everything they can to calm the situation. I will be giving every assistance I can."

, of the Muslim Council of Britain, said that Ms Gibbons should never have been arrested in the first place, and called on the Sudanese government to intervene in the case with a view to ensuring that she is released without delay.

In contrast to official statements within Sudan, the Sudanese Embassy in the UK has downplayed the whole affair, saying that the "minute" issue would soon be resolved.

Speculation
Some commentators have suggested other contributing factors in this :

 * Britain's criticism of the Sudanese government's human rights record in Darfur may have angered the Sudanese authorities.
 * Teachers at the school have suggested that a colleague with a grudge against the school, rather than parents, might be the source for the complaints.
 * Bishop, chairman of the school council, suggested that the affair could be related to a tax dispute between the school and the Sudanese authorities.
 * Canadian radio commentators have suggested that the Jyllands-Posten in 2005 may have increased the Muslim sensitivity to this issue.


text:
User talk:Notmyopinion

Welcome
, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! JoshuaZ 00:50, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
 * Writing an article - how to write and publish a complete article
 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Style guide - how articles should look before publishing
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
 * The front page lead articles often need updating
 * Developing stories need finishing and publishing
 * Discussions need your input
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 * And of course, stories need writing!

 * And minor note, I'm very busy right now, but if you want to help out with the Wikipedia article on this subject it would be great since not many people seem to be interested over there. JoshuaZ 16:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:Notmyopinion


text: User talk:129.96.234.127

title: User talk:129.96.234.127


text:
Wikinews:CommonsTicker/20071128

28 November

title: Wikinews:CommonsTicker/20071128


text:
Google to invest in alternative energy

November 28, 2007 On Tuesday, Google announced a new strategic initiative aimed at producing electricity from renewable energy sources such as solar, wind, and geothermal power that is cheaper than electricity produced from coal. Google plans to spend tens of millions of dollars on research and development in 2008, and to invest hundreds of millions of dollars to bring energy projects to market.

The new initiative is dubbed "RE<C", for "Renewable Energy Cheaper than Coal." It will "focus initially on advanced solar thermal power, wind power technologies, enhanced geothermal systems and other potential breakthrough technologies," according to the company's press release.

"We see technologies we think can mature into very capable industries that can generate electricity cheaper than coal, and we don’t see people talking about that as much as we would like," said Google Co-founder Larry Page. "Solar thermal technology, for example, provides a very plausible path to providing renewable energy cheaper than coal... We are aware of several promising technologies, and believe there are many more out there."

Page said that Google's goal is "to produce one gigawatt of renewable energy capacity that is cheaper than coal," and that the company is "optimistic this can be done in years, not decades."

According to the company press release, one gigawatt is enough to power a city the size of San Franscisco.

Some Wall Street analysts questioned the wisdom of Google's new initiative.

"I’ve written off Google’s competition as a threat to Google’s long-term market share gains," said Jordan Rohan of RBC Capital Markets. "But I haven’t written off Google’s own ability to stretch too far and try to do too much. Ultimately, that is the biggest risk in the Google story."

Rohan added that "The only positive byproduct of this project that would be anything other than environmental is that it might make Google managers and executives even prouder of the fact that they work there, and it may help retain key employees who think their goal is to do good in the world."

Travis Bradford, an analyst for Prometheus Institute for Sustainable Development, said he was having "a bit of trouble trying to figure out the business logic" of Google's move. "They don't have any advantage in doing this other than a big, huge pile of cash."

On the other hand, Brett Conrad, manager of the Blue Earth Fund, said that Google's $211 billion market capitalization and $13 billion cash "gives them a fighting chance" at succeeding in the energy market. "I think they're looking at a $7 trillion market. I think it would be as tough for Google to do it as a big oil company."

title: Google to invest in alternative energy


text:
File talk:Fontana di Trevi 19 ottobre 2007.jpg

This is the most popular image currently with 67 ± 17% hits per day, or 	0.0886% of hits. (Thats the average over the last 27 days). Bawolff ☺☻ 05:30, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


text:
Third night of unrest is calmer in Paris suburbs

November 28, 2007 In a third night of violence, that followed after two teenagers on a motorbike died in a collision with a police patrol vehicle on Sunday night, French authorities are reporting only sporadic clashes in the Val-d'Oise department. However, for the first time, unrest was reported outside of Paris suburbs. The southern city of Toulouse saw at least ten cars torched and a library was set on fire. "The situation is much calmer than the two previous nights but we can all feel that it remains fragile," said Prime Minister François Fillon, as Tuesday night saw only minor incidents in Villiers-le-Bel, where the unrest originated on Sunday.

Authorities are saying that the rioting has been more intense than in 2005, albeit less widespread. There have been several reports of hunting rifles and other firearms.

"It's much more violent than in 2005," said Patrick Ribeiro of Synergie police union, in a telephone interview with Bloomberg. "They've shot at us with handguns and hunting rifles. If our officers have to protect their lives, they may have to shoot and that's not what we want."

"Back then, it was more of a revolt. This time, they're after us and they're armed," said Christophe, a police officer, to The Guardian.

"Those who shoot at policemen, those who beat a police officer almost to death are criminals and must be treated as such," PM Fillon told the parliament earlier in the day.

Interior Minister Michèle Alliot-Marie said that the riots were organized and that the street violence by teens was to distract police, while criminals looted shops. She also pledged stronger police presence. "Our goal is to impose calm and to arrest these dangerous individuals who shoot at police," she said.

"I was there yesterday, and I'm going to be there tonight," said a 19-year-old who lives in Villiers-le-Bel where the accident happened and who would not give his name. "We don't think it's a good thing to destroy the shops, but we're in this all together. And we won't stop until justice is made."

Meanwhile, the police reported their initial findings in the investigation into the accident that triggered the unrest. The motorcycle was going at top speed and was not registered for street use, while the two boys were not wearing helmets and had been ignoring traffic rules, according to the report. The two boys have been identified only by their first names. Moushin, 15, and Larami, 16, both died in the accident.

Relatives of the boys insist that the police rammed the motorcycle with their car and then left the boys to die. Residents have said that police gave only cursory help to the accident victims. Police say that an ambulance was on the scene within 10 minutes of the collision.


text:
User talk:Talk101

I am sorry, but such changes should not be made to an old news story. This is not Wikipedia. Please Introduction. Thanks, --SVTCobra 06:42, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

There is no rule there on a time limit. And I surfed from the web into that article, which is inaccurate and misleading. Can you point out SVT Cobra where the time rule is, please?--Talk101 07:16, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok I see it - it's on another page. Thanks for pointing it out!

ps but it doesn't give a good impression of wikinews though when basic facts are wrong--Talk101 07:16, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:Talk101