text:
User talk:Pingswept/Archive early 05

Man, I'm addicted to this Wikinews thing.
I think I could spend a lot of time on this. Pingswept 03:03, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Time to join Wikiholics Anonymous :-) -- IlyaHaykinson 03:25, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for contributing
I just noticed that you had corrected some mistakes in the Japan defense story I posted this evening, and then found that you have done a lot of work to improve quite a few articles.

Thank you for all of your copyediting contributions.

Wikinews' quality is noticeably improved when so many mistakes are caught and fixed.

Regards,

— DV 03:21, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Help in English Language
I would like to thank you because you corrected some of my texts. I have some doubts about certain things in English and I would appreciate your comments. Thank you very much. -- Carlosar 20:53, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) "USA" or "the USA"? Which one is correct?
 * 2) "FARC" or "the FARC"? Which one is correct? "FARC" and "USA" are not both the same case?
 * 3) What is the difference between "covering" and "harboring"?

Hi Carlosar,

I'm not really an authority on professional journalistic standards, but I'll give it a try.

RIGHT: "The event happened in the US." You could write "the USA," but I think "the US" is more common. "Kobe Bryant lives in Los Angeles, California, USA."

WRONG: "The event happened in US." "Kobe Bryant lives in Los Angeles, California, the USA."

I have seen both "FARC" and "the FARC" used. I did add "the" to at least one of your FARC articles, but I was just trying to make it consistent-- you had used "the FARC" elsewhere in the article. I think just "FARC" is more common.

"Covering" describes a blanket put over a baby or snow on the ground. It usually describes an outer layer, like a jacket. It can also describe the topic of an article, as in, "The article covered news of the kidnapping."

"Harboring" means "giving protection to." In the past few years, it has been used frequently in the media to describe countries that are friendly to terrorists.

Sometimes you hear people talk about a "cover-up," which means a scandal, in which, for example, the government tries to hide the truth from the people. I also noticed that you used the word "coverture," which was not a word I had seen before, but I think you used it correctly. Pingswept 01:11, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I need another help in Capture of FARC member creates crisis between Venezuela and Colombia at the line:"On September 19, 2004, the FARC killed Luis Eduardo Duque Varon, Antonio Jose Duque Varon, and Alfonso Lopez Nivia, a move supposedly motivated by the involvement of the victims with an other terrorist group, the Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC)." I would like to write that this was the last incident stated by MIPT page, so the text would be more accurate. I didn't write this before because I didn't know how to write it in a proper way. Do you have some suggestion? What do you think? Thank you again. -- Carlosar 21:11, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC) I am not sure if this was the last incident envolving the FARC. I am sure it is the last incident registered at the MIPT site. According to the site the registers Last updated were on Dec. 14, 2004. Please, see the FARC register at the MIPT page and see if everything is ok. Thank you again. -- Carlosar 21:36, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I'll see if I can fix it in the article. Pingswept 01:11, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

User comment moved from User:pingswept
Hi! I'm glad to hear you enjoyed the Romanian news! I'll be adding a few everyday, just to let people know about this interesting part of the world :) Ronline 08:07, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Need help in revision
I need someone revise the article Heart attack kills brother of Brazilian president. I modified just the last phrase: I made this change because, according to my last research, there is some uncertainty about the exact number of Lula's brothers. One of the Lula's brother says Lula's father had 17 children. Another Lula's brother says Lula's father had 19 children. Another brother says Lula's father had actually 25 children. They don't agree because Lula's father had many children with many women. My reference is an article I found in a newspaper. I have not found something about Lula's brothers in internet yet. If you think it is necessary I can take a copy of the article and send you(it is in Portuguese, however). --- Carlosar 23:37, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC) Just for curiosity: Lula's brother(the one who passed away) lived in my city for some time, and near my house. --- Carlosar 23:37, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC) Thank you.--- Carlosar 23:37, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * before : President Lula had 17 brothers and sisters ...
 * after :  President Lula had between 17 and 25 brothers and sisters...

Hey Carlosar, I found an English source and added it to your Lula article. It looks like it's from an AP report, but I don't think any other English papers have picked it up yet. I also replaced "brothers and sisters" with "siblings." By the way, do you have access to the #wikinews IRC channel? I'm there most of the time recently if you have English questions. Pingswept 01:55, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * I will do that. Thank you. -- Carlosar 11:00, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Would you please see the article Brazilian President meets President of Colombia? Off course case you are not too much occupied with something else. Thank you very much. -- Carlosar

Hi Carlosar,

Have to go to work right now, but when I get a chance, I'll go over it.

Pingswept 15:05, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Good catch
with the G7 article, thanks! Dan100 (Talk) 16:27, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Nice work!
Thanks for your help editing the Gates article. I pulled a lot of it from Wikipedia, and I was starting to reshape it into a news article when I was pulled away unexpectedly. It looks great now!

Ex-priest Shanley sentenced to 12-15 years for child rape
The image is a wee bit big! CGorman 23:10, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Beat me to it! CGorman 23:19, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Admin status granted
Congratulations, you have just been made a sysop! You have volunteered for boring housekeeping activities which normal users sadly cannot participate in. Sysops basically can't do anything: They cannot delete pages arbitarily (only obvious junk like "jklasdfl,öasdf JOSH IS GAY"), they cannot protect pages in an edit war they are involved in, they cannot ban users except in cases of obvious vandalism or excessive edit warring (24-hour "cool down" ban). What they can do is delete junk as it appears, ban vandals, remove pages that have been listed on Deletion requests for more than a week, protect pages when asked to by other members, and help keep the few protected pages there are up to date.

Note that almost everything you can do can be undone, so don't be too worried about making mistakes. You will find more information on Administrators, please take a look before experimenting with your new powers. Drop me a message if there are any questions or if you want to stop being a sysop (could it be?). Have fun!--Eloquence 07:31, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Congratulations! - Amgine 02:25, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Not that silly article
Hi. Although I don't care you've removed the requested article, I don't know if you actually read the Spanish version. The main point is not the "joke" played by those Paraguayan journalists, the main point is how in Paraguay important documents -marriage, birth and decease certificates- can be faked so easily. Anyway, it's an opinion. Cheers. Julián Ortega 18:06, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi Julián
 * I did look at the Spanish version, but my Spanish isn't good enough to tell whether it is a joke or not. From the English headline, it looked silly. Can you provide a link to an English description of what happened? It sounds like it was a real story. Pingswept 18:11, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi. I couldn't find any English site with the news, although it was published by AFP and AP on Thursday. I provide some links in Spanish -to prove its veracity- and I hope someone can help with translation (Carlosar, who used to be the Latin American reporter, is working hard at Wikinews in Portuguese), 'cause I can't do it by now...

 * El País (Uruguay)
 * Univision
 * El Nuevo Herald, Miami

 * Cheers! Julián Ortega 19:41, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Jambo OpenOffice
Thanks a bunch for the article First Swahili office suite released in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania. Great reporting, cheers! -- Matt Crypto 16:53, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Ironic comments
You posted a comment in your update of my article about Firefox 1.0.1 'bet this came from ben goodger'. Ironically, it did, but not from Mozilla top-hat Ben Goodger. It came from me, Ben Goodger (Cornwall, England resident.)

 * Wow. That is very weird. Well, you are the real Ben Goodger from now on in my book. Thanks for the story. Pingswept 23:27, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I should stick to the weather.
Hi Pingswept,

I appreciate the sentiment in your recent remarks which were intended to shut down a potential "flamefest", but I have no intention of bickering with anyone.

Paulrevere2005 seems to be earnestly looking around to uncover some story that no one else has yet heard of.

He could use more effective methods to accomplish that goal, but who knows, maybe he will uncover something big.

I was kind of surprised when I googled "Fourth Reich", and discovered how well developed an alternative theory of the September 11, 2001 attacks had become, and the comparisons that are being made to the Reichstag fire.

It's kind of scary.

I have no fundamental disagreement with Paulrevere2005's politics. I just wish he could point to better evidence to support some of his claims.

I apologize if you feel that any of my actions were a provocation.

I should stick to the weather.

Regards,

— DV 02:52, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * No hard feelings. Pingswept 03:38, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Gah!! Three typos??
Three typos in one sentence at Ash and steam reported over Mount St. Helens?? What's wrong with me today? Thanks for the cleanup; I guess I was in a hurry to get it in before an edit conflict set in. -- JohnOwens 03:15, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * No problem. I felt the edit conflict fear correcting them too. Pingswept 03:17, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Please, fix protected article
There is a small error in 2005 World Social Forum-Brazil coverage which must be corrected. The error is related to the name of one of the participants of WSF. Please, do the required changes. Thank you. --Carlosar 17:26, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

January 31, 2005
 * the President of the CUT labour union Marine Luiz [WRONG], and the managing director of the monthly periodical Le Monde Diplomatique Ignacio Ramonet. [14]

 * the President of the CUT labour union, Luiz Marinho [RIGHT], and the managing director of the monthly periodical Le Monde Diplomatique Ignacio

You can check with the sources right here.

 * Hi Carlosar,
 * Do we have a policy on corrections to articles that have been archived? I'm wary of setting a precedent here, though your correction seems like an obvious good thing. My fear is that I would be asked to make corrections that I disagree with to other articles, and I don't want to make me (or any single person) the sole arbiter of any decision on Wikinews. So, do we have policy? Suggestions anyone? Pingswept 22:31, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Credentials
Pingswept, with community approval you are now our first accredited reporter. Congrats! I'm anxiously waiting for your first story using those credentials! -- IlyaHaykinson 07:27, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Congrats Pingswept! You are now part of history; the first officially accrediated Wikinews reporter - that will sound good when Wikinews is the 1# news site in the world (yes ahead of CNN, BBC, Google News)! CGorman 21:08, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Wikinews writing contest launched
Dear Pingswept,

thanks for registering for the Wikinews writing contest! It now begins officially. Every day, I will try to make a tally of who has and who has not managed to fulfill their story/day requirements. If you do, however, believe I am missing something, please do not hesitate to contact me. Best of luck in the contest!--Eloquence 06:20, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Northern hemisphere summer.
Re: UN Secretary General Annan cleared of influencing oil-for-food contracts by Volcker report, thanks for the all hard work, my non minor edit should have a semi-major flag :). Please see it's talk page for question on final report date. — Jeandré du Toit, 2005-03-30t15:33z

That time of the year again
This is a form letter that I am putting on the talk page of every admin: As you may know, we are approaching April 1. In many cultures, this is a time for pranksters to pull April Fools jokes on others. Because of the ease of editing, wiki projects tend to fall prey to these types of pranks rather easily. Let this be a reminder to us all to keep a special lookout for hoaxes, rampant fiction and other random acts of content vandalism between now and April 2. Good luck, and hopefully not too much damage will be done. -- Davodd | Talk 07:02, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Prefetch
Hi, I replied on my talk page Dan100 (Talk) 16:20, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Pope
NB: Im giving this message to the 10 or so people I suspect may be on Wikinews when the event occurs.

I've created a story announcing the Popes death - when the Vatican or BBC/Reuters announce he is actually dead please insert the date & time and publish - we will be the 1st news group to break this story (besides our source)! The story is located here User:CGorman/Sandbox. Whilst waiting please improve the story. → CGorman (Talk)  22:46, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Wikinews:Story preparation
Seeing how well preparations have gone for the Pope story, i've created Story preparation. Instead of users preparing stories on their own computers and saving them on their own hard drives, they can place them here to allow other writers to add to them before the event. This will help eliminate duel coverage of the same story - Teeks99 had spent some time yesterday evening writing a Pope story - but did'nt load it onto wikinews resulting in his version being made redundent. Hopefully by allowing users to collaborate on a story from an earlier date, our article quality will be dramatically improved. → CGorman (Talk)  15:11, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

MGM vs. Grokster
Thanks for straightening out the copyedit I did. I was getting a little carried away! -edw 23:52, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * No problem. Overall, the article is now much better than it was. Pingswept 23:57, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

accreditation page changes
I've made some changes to Credential verification to sync it with the suggested changes on the water cooler — if you get a chance, send me your interests and locations and I'll add them to the page. -- IlyaHaykinson 02:46, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Did it myself. Filter if you wish. Pingswept 03:02, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Looks good — thanks! -- IlyaHaykinson 07:17, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Video cameras
If you do choose to buy a camera, I recommend going with a miniDV tape model (even the cheapest miniDV models are sufficient for web video). MiniDV tape is a widely-used format that makes it easier to exchange tapes and is also quick to edit, because it doesn't use any interframe compression.

(Some cameras generate a variant of MPEG that can be too slow to work with if the "keyframes" are spaced too far apart, to the extent that many editors are compelled to convert it to another format for productive editing. An exception to this is the new HDV format which uses an MPEG format specially-designed to be editable, but I'm assuming you're not going to spend thousands for a camera, so I won't get into that one.)

Watch out for older "Digital 8" cameras. I advise staying away from those because Digital 8 is an obsolete format which has fallen out of use. Also, Digital 8 tapes are a different size than miniDV tapes, and so we wouldn't be able to exchange them. — DV 07:34, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Hold on a minute-- what is this DV/miniDV conspiracy! The NPOV cabal is going to have a word with you about this!

 * But I'll look into the cameras, and maybe ask you some questions later. Pingswept 14:24, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Disclaimers
I noticed that the disclaimers link at the bottom of all pages links to nothing. I've copied Wikipedia's set of disclaimers, changing "Wikipedia" to "Wikinews", fixing up the otherwise incorrect hyperlinks, and removing Wikipedia-specific content and GFDL references. I think that it might be wise to protect these articles as soon as possible. Uncle G 23:39, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * General disclaimer
 * Risk disclaimer
 * Medical disclaimer
 * Legal disclaimer
 * Content disclaimer

Visiting students detained in Louisiana, USA, while photographing ExxonMobil chemical plant
If you get a moment, could you add the OR note to the talk page? - Amgine 22:00, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Cambridge, Mass., city council recommends construction firm W. R. Grace remain under DEP supervision for asbestos contamination
Hi Pingswept,

could you add a note on the talk page about the original reporting component of the article? Thanks,--Eloquence 07:31, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

We heard you!
I was tuned in on the audio webcast tonight, good work :) Dan100 (Talk) 00:24, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Sweet! I didn't even realize I was being broadcast until after the meeting ended. Hope I didn't sound like an idiot. Pingswept 03:07, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Categories
This message is being given to several people, so please forgive the formality.

I've created a list of categories that must be included in ALL articles to ensure the DPL system works correctly. Adding the revlevent categories from this list will ensure complete site-wide relevent article listing. It is located at User:CGorman/Categories and you can easily cut & paste out of it. I urge frequent writers to bookmark this page to help save themselves time with categorization. Thanks for your attention. → CGorman (Talk)  19:38, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

A moment of your time?
We have had a series of vandalism attacks today... Just thought you might want to be aware. CGorman stayed as long as he could, and it has been quiet since, but I'm a bit on edge about the whole day. - Amgine 01:52, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Simeon's changes
As you have probably noticed, Simeon is intent on competely re-writing almost all the Wikinews namespace articles. I object to this on a number of fronts: there's no consensus for such changes, the pages have existed as they were for a long time which I believe is a sign the community accepts them as they are; the existing pages have all been carefully written and constructed by several editors to be the best they can be; and Simeon's changes are to make them grossly longer and harder to read. And I must be honest - a couple of the pages were written by me. I obviously don't mind people altering them, but I do object to them being destroyed. Dan100 (Talk) 08:27, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi Dan100,

 * I think the best way to respond to this is to use the discussion pages, and ask Simeon to do so as well. Maybe if Wikinews had been around for longer, the pages would be difficult to improve, but I don't think they're perfect yet, so I'm glad someone is working to improve them. If his changes make them worse, we should discuss it as a community. Pingswept 16:07, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Winding down the Wikinews writing contest
Hello Pingswept,

I'd like to ask you to comment before Monday on Wikinews talk:Writing contest. Thanks!--Eloquence 02:39, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

'Till the end of April

 * Greetings Pingswept, from sunny Houston, home of the Lap-Dance Law! Pingswept and Simeon have both agreed to split the prizes. How 'bout you guys split 1/2 and I take the other half!
 * But really, there are three winners here and I am honored to be among them. If someone can do the math and divvy it all up (I will yield my share of G-mail invites since I have amassed a few of them already on my own) then I think we should continue thru the end of the month, one article a day as we have been doing. If one of us bows out before then, so be it. If we all survive, we split. --HiFlyer 15:23, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Pingswept's offer

 * I accept Pingswept's division of goodies, and would write one a day through the end of the month. Competition has been fun, but it's time to congratulate each other for a good job and wind down, IMO. --HiFlyer 14:27, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Jimmy Wales' Speaks at Harvard Law School
Someone who works for a newspaper asked me about Jimmy's talk on Tuesday. I told him about it. He seems really interested in Wikipedia and its community. I told him about some other Wikimedia projects. Then I said his publication didn't have to cover the talk because Wikinews already did. --Anonymous 20:49, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Letter to the editor
Last Fridays edition of The Economist magazine had a major story about the future of journalism, intrigingly it mentioned wikipedia.org in very favourably terms but did not mention us. This provides an excellent chance to write a letter to the editor about Wikinews. I am asking a few people to do this before thursday afternoon (5/6pm) in the belief that if they receive several letters about wikinews, they will publish at least one. I have already sent a letter (email). The Economist sells on average 1 million copies a week - thats a lot of readers, so this is worth our while.

To do:

 * Read the article (or at least the relevent part) at: Click here
 * Write a short email in the form:
 * Sir -
 * (your text),
 * (Your name)
 * (your town and country)
 * (space)
 * (Your postal address)

 * Send it to letters@economist.com
 * Delete this message.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, this is just a request, not a demand, don't feel underpressure. (p.s. don't quote our article count, as i've already done that and it would look suspicious if they received several similier emails on the same day). → CGorman (Talk)  21:55, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

your commons user page
hi - I added a link to your page here on your commons page. Have a look and change it around as you like... -- commons:User:Duesentrieb 23:19, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks, Duesentrieb. Pingswept 23:24, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

URGENT! Your attention and input is needed regarding a crucial issue facing wikinews.
Please go to the water cooler policy discussion at http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Wikinews:Water_cooler/policy#creating_.2F_deleting_dispute_flag_templates

Please participate in this discussion,regardless of your opinion. Paulrevere2005 12:56, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * PaulRevere2005: I commented, as requested. Please don't use such a headline on my talk page unless the servers are on fire. Pingswept 17:47, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * You forgot to sign your comment :) Dan100 (Talk) 17:51, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Settling up
Please help me to settle my pledges to the Writing contest prize offerings.

I feel obligated to settle my pledges before I focus on the Original reporting contest, so please review my comments on the Writing contest talk page at your earliest convenience. — DV 06:40, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

Its over at last!
Congrats on being a winner! Check out Contest Ending. → CGorman (Talk)  17:22, 2 May 2005 (UTC) BTW: I know the trophies very tacky! → CGorman (Talk)  18:16, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

ro.wikinews 31 articles
Thanks! We have a great new user (User:Federals) who is contributing a lot lately - 31 articles on May 5 and 10 articles on May 6. The great thing is that the news is very comprehesive, covering not only Romania but also worldwide (as far as Australia!). He's contributing the "raw" articles and I'm supplementing them with photos and links. Overall, the ro.wikinews is starting to look very nice! We've also started a writing contest at ro: which we hope will further boost growth. Our aim for the end of May is to reach 300-400 articles. Ronline 05:32, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Send me an email
Hey - send me an email: davodd (at) davodd dot com -- so I can send you the prize money for winning the writing contest. -- Davodd | Talk 06:06, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

FYI you may wish to comment
at the water cooler 1.8 DV and Hi-Flyer left + Administrative Abuse

[] Paulrevere2005 12:43, 9 May 2005 (UTC

You forgot
to sign your recent comment on the dispute resolution page :) Dan100 (Talk) 18:59, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I suck so much. Thanks for catching this--AGAIN! Pingswept 19:01, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

submit a story moved
Good day, I noticed that a well-intentioned new user moved Template:Submitted stories to World's Tallest Geyser Erupts. What is the best way to re-establish everything to the way it should be? Double Blue  (Talk) 03:50, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Press pass
Pingswept, did you get my email about my new ? NGerda 03:59, May 24, 2005 (UTC)

Block 216.127.82.99
thankyou for blocking 216.127.82.99, i was getting tired of reverting the ip's edits.--Ryan524 20:06, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Hiya!
Hiya Pingwept! I'm glad to see that you're an active admin once again. Wikinews needs more admins like you, which is why I am asking you to vote for Ryan524 and me. Thank you! NGerda 18:04, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks but voting is already over for me and I have been Sysopped! yay! and NGerda's probably gets over soon too.--Ryan524 18:06, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Food for thought
Great to see the original reporting effort is ensuring that the vital news from Massachusetts is presented on a world stage ;). → CGorman (Talk)  09:27, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

offer to help
Thanks for the offer, if you're able to add any of the other reports and add the it would be really good - I know there was something in the Herald Tribune (the incident refers to our forum but doesn't say so) but i'm not going to be able to trawl anything else. If you can that would be really good. ClareWhite (none of the right keys here for signatures!)

 * Hi Clare,

 * I tracked down the Herald Tribune article here: http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/16/news/wolf.php and I'm adding it to the article.

=Note: I am on semi-wikivacation from roughly June 1 to September 1, 2005.=

title: User talk:Pingswept/Archive early 05


text:
User talk:The almost wise one

Welcome
, welcome to Wikinews! Thank you for your contributions; I hope you like the place and decide to stay! If you haven't done so already, you may want to create an account.

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Bawolff ☺☻ 19:55, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
 * Writing an article - how to write and publish a complete article
 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Newsroom - The comunity portal
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
 * The front page lead articles often need updating
 * Developing stories need finishing and publishing
 * Discussions need your input
 * And of course, stories need writing!

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:The almost wise one


text:
Talk:Carter's CIA chief labels Dick Cheney "vice president for torture"

I'm not going to tag this, but that is quite likely. The article needs quite a bit of work to bring it up to a high standard. There's an interesting story here, but it needs a couple of Wikinewsies who've seen the interview clubbing it into shape. Sorry, but I don't get ITN here in Belgium. Brian McNeil / talk 20:12, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I see International is still working on this, my apologies if my comment was premature. Brian McNeil / talk 20:24, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * He was on CNN several times last night saying the same thing (Anderson Cooper show for 1)...should be transcripts available online. Neutralizer 20:36, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

I havent seen the interview and I dont know if I can make this article any good for now, leaving it some time and check it later if some Wikinewsies can fix it better. Mayby its to confrontative and pow...International 20:48, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Having re-read the CNN story on this I've copyedited the Interview section. I don't know about the rest though.  The contents and sub-headings probably need to go, at the moment the article isn't really long enough to justify their use. Brian McNeil / talk 12:23, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Picture
I found a picture thats maybe is ok to use: from: http://www.carlcoxphoto.com/executive.htm
 * Picture of Stansfield Turner

"Digital files are available for reprints, or for publication use. (not for re-sale without permission)" Does this mean its ok for Wikinews to use? I don't know how to handle pictures in Wikinews (going to find out but it may take some time...)

 * How about this public domain foto? :) Uploading to the commons now. --Deprifry|+T+ 15:37, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Perfect Deprifry! International 15:46, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

publish?
I think it look good now. Anyone like to publish or is there need for more work? International 15:53, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Carter
Say what you will about Carter being silly, he and most of his people had integrity.

Typo
editprotected "Condoleeza" => "Condoleezza" (2 times) Van der Hoorn (talk) 14:44, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

 * ✅ ♪Tempo di Valse ♪ 20:48, 14 March 2009 (UTC)


text:
Talk:U.S. House vote forced on immediate pullout of troops in Iraq

Can someone expand the geopolitical acronyms on this, we're not all used to US politics. Brian McNeil / talk 20:44, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

NPOV
Issues with this:

 * DO NOT TAKE SIDES.
 * I don't understand this objection -- the chamber was highly partisan and it was emotionally charged. Is the assertion that it wasn't emotionally charged? How is this taking sides? --Chiacomo (talk) 21:23, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It was taking sides by calling it partisan. As I was watching C-SPAN last night, I can tell you it isn't the truth.  There were equal speeches/opinions shared from both sides.  --Mrmiscellanious 03:19, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Mrmiscellaneous, partisan does not indicate that either party did not make speeches, rather it implies that the points argued were made along party lines and as “highly” rather than absolutely further description it allows for variations but continues to communicate the general status (viz. Majority Republicans in opposition to any type of recall, Minority Democrats in opposition to reckless recall of military forces). Modified by removal of line break as description applies to both actions described, by Schmidt and also Ford and others.68.210.70.211 18:07, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

 * "Charged" is inaccurate, and should be replaced with a more neutral verb.
 * One of the sources used the word "surged" -- is that better? --Chiacomo (talk) 21:23, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, I think "shouted in anger" or something would be more gramatically and factually correct, plus it's not really fair to make one side seem like it is "violent". --Mrmiscellanious 03:19, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm fairly sure that it was violent, since one of the sources mentioned a "scrum" between Ford, other Democrats, and Republicans in the House. - McCart42 [[User_talk:McCart42|(talk)]] 14:34, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

--Mrmiscellanious 21:07, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Then fix it. -Edbrown05 21:17, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I will not. I refuse to "fix" any NPOV issues, but will point them out for others to fix.  No one is learning about the policy if I just fix them.  --Mrmiscellanious 21:19, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Neither of these appear to be actionable objections. --Chiacomo (talk) 21:23, 19 November 2005 (UTC)


text:
French unions march in support of public services

November 19, 2005

Today, a number of French unions and left-wing parties marched in Paris in order to support public services, which they feel are threatened by the current government. Those who demonstrated (unionists, politicians and simple employees) are opposed to the privatization of public companies such as the electrical and gas utility EDF, or to the scaling down of public services such as the national public postal service in rural areas.

Organizers claim 30,000 protested, as opposed to the 10,000 figure cited by the police. The march was peaceful and uneventful, with a light police escort to open the streets, and City of Paris sanitation vehicles coming just behind to clean the streets of leaflets and other litter. Many of the protesters were under the banners the Communist-influenced CGT union, most others under those of major confederations or parties such as the French Communist Party. A small minority were from radical groups such as the anarcho-syndicalist CNT or Les Alternatifs. A group of French scientific researchers and graduate students protested the government's policies with respect to research funding.

Among the personalities who marched are politicians Marie-George Buffet (French Communist Party), George Sarre (MRC) and Olivier Besancenot (Revolutionary Communist League), and unionists Bernard Thibault (CGT), Annick Coupé (Solidaires) and Gérard Aschiéri (FSU).


text:
Talk:French unions march in support of public services

I was there taking photographs. Submarine 21:41, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

photo's
heres an idea for positioning photos: French unions march in support of public services/photo test. Bawolff ☺☻ 22:35, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Looking good here. --Deprifry|+T+ 22:48, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It's better than the current one, however I think this looked better. - Apollyon 22:52, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * The one in history cuts off the begining of each letter, (maybe padding would fix), in my browser (Firefox 1.5 RC2) and is screwed up in submarines browser. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 22:56, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I was bold and changed it. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 23:09, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I deleted the example page so it doesn't clutter up developing stories. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 00:46, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry but all the fancy layouts tried so far made the text difficult to read in my browser. Submarine 14:47, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Which browser do you have, Submarine? How is the text difficult to read? - Apollyon 16:25, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Mozilla. It resulted in paragraphs only a few letters wide, stuck between two photos (left and right). Submarine 09:23, 21 November 2005 (UTC)


text:
World Summit on the Information Society ends in Tunisia

November 19, 2005

The World Summit on the Information Society, organized by the International Telecommunication Union, concluded on Friday evening, November 18th, in Tunis, the capital of the north African nation of Tunisia. The event's organizers intended for the event to "put into motion" the plan for Internet financing and governance developed at the 2003 WSIS summit in Geneva, Switzerland.

The summit was marred by criticism of Tunisia for allowing attacks on journalists and human rights defenders to occur in the days leading up to the event. A French journalist for "Libération" was stabbed and beaten by unidentified men after he reported on local human rights protesters. A Belgian television crew was harassed and forced to hand over footage of Tunisian dissidents, while local human rights defenders were roughed up and prevented from organising a meeting with international civil society groups. A representative from the French media watchdog Reporters Without Borders, Robert Menard, was prevented from disembarking from his Air France flight to Tunis to attend the summit.

During the event, representatives from the Global Voices project were menaced by the Tunisian police as they held their session on "Expression Under Repression." Speaking at the session were Rebecca MacKinnon, Ethan Zuckerman, Nart Villeneuve, Taurai Maduna, Isaac Mao, and Hossein Derakshan, among others. The interaction with the Tunisian police is related by Amanda Michel of the Berkman Center with the description from an attendee as, "[B]efore the break, a phalanx of secret police (ie scary guys in dark suits) showed up. [T]hey filled the hall outside the room, forcing cancellation of the break for fear that we'd not be allowed to re-start."

Nicholas Negroponte demonstrated the first working prototype of his $100 laptop.


text:
User talk:72.144.17.140

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text:
User talk:Konulu II

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text:
Talk:AOL to launch VoIP service

Geez, a frigging press release? terrible!

title: Talk:AOL to launch VoIP service


text:
User talk:172.177.30.116

Welcome
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text:
User talk:Zeldonia

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title: User talk:Zeldonia


text:
Wikinews:Sandbox/redirect

 * 1) DEPRECATEDSandbox

title: Wikinews:Sandbox/redirect


title: File:20November2005.pdf


title: File:20November2005.sxw


text:
User talk:Hoonster

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text:
User talk:Calidan

Welcome
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title: User talk:Calidan


text:
Template:Press release

__NOINDEX__

title: Template:Press release


text:
Talk:Tunisian Muslim says apologise to Baha'is

always
Muslims, by contrast, considered themselves always the victims, their violence always Holy War and their dead men always martyrs.

smacks of racism, drawing the rest of the claims in the article into dispute this article needs alot of work before published seeing it could offended alot of people with false claims --Whywhywhy 11:16, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Looks to me as if this is a quote by Al-Gharbi. But that should probably be made clearer. --Deprifry|+T+ 11:20, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Amended - I hope it's clearer now. AndrewRT 20:17, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

i dont think it really matters if its quoted. its racism--Whywhywhy 11:47, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

 * It is a quote by al-Gharbi who is herself a Muslim. People are entitled to criticise their own religion without being branded racists.

 * The point of this article is to be relevant to the category "Baha'i". Baha'is - who have been consistently persecuted by Muslims throughout the world and through most of their history are very interested to see an example of a Muslim standing up and saying "I think Muslims should apologise to Baha'is". Would you feel more comfortable if this story was published with a "Local only tag"? AndrewRT 20:17, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

iv made some adjustments and i feel the article is now ready to be read by anyone and probably most should read it, no local tag thanks--Whywhywhy 07:57, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Institute's
side note:

is it just me is their a remarkable trend of Institute's that are not related to scientic endvours churning out political retric--Whywhywhy 11:26, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Middle East Media Research Institute, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute reads(al though :The neutrality of this article is disputed.): it is aligned with the goals of Israel's Likud party and that it attempts to influence public policy in North America and Europe by presenting a distorted and highly selective view of Arab media. MEMRI's president Carmon maintains that "MEMRI is totally unaffiliated with any government, and receives no government funding. While I was formerly an Israeli official (and retired more than a decade ago), I have never been affiliated with the Likud Party, or any other party http://www.antiwar.com/cole/?articleid=4047

 * I noticed that when I was writing the article and wondered if what appears to be such an obviously biased source could be relied upon. However MEMRI is not the original source of the story - this is the Italian webite. They are simply quoting what they have read and translated. For this reason I thought it was ok to use MEMRI but also worth quoting them as a source as they give a translation AndrewRT 20:17, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

broken
United States Commission on International Religious Freedom "Annual Report 2005". United States Commission on International Religious Freedom, May 2, 2005--Whywhywhy 11:37, 20 November 2005 (UTC) possible dummy evidence

 * Thanks for pointing out the broken link - I've changed it so that it now works. You're right to insist that stories are supported by sources but why are you so quick to question my integrity? You're pretty much accusing me of lying! AndrewRT 20:17, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

non english source
Dr Iqbal Gharbi "Where are the Arabs in this time of forgiveness? (Italian)". Arabiliberali.it, October 24, 2005 how can it be verified on a english based website with out a bad translation fro bable fish that can change the context of a sentence with one wrong word? --Whywhywhy 11:42, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Well what do you suggest I do? The MEMRI article gives an English translation. Most people reading wikinews can't read Italian so I posted a basic translation of the Italian article. The header also gives a pointer to the original article in Italian so that way readers get the best of both worlds. If you think that any words have been mistranslated then let me know, but otherwise I don't see any alternative. Unless you're suggesting that non-English sources should be banned from wikinews? AndrewRT 20:17, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Non-english sources have been used before without complaint as long as there is other sources in english. I don't see this as a problem. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 21:55, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

non direct link unable to find article
Forum 18 "Archive of article on Baha'i Faith". Forum 18, November 16, 2005 god ;) we have the full gamit here --Whywhywhy 11:45, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Seems I haven't done too well here on my first article!! :) I'll try to sort out all these links that seem to have problems.
 * Don't worry, the only problem I see is a couple bad links, and one unclear quote. thats pretty minnor. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 22:04, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I've changed the link to the article itself and put the link to the archive in a "see also" link AndrewRT 19:30, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

where else
... thanks for something I don't yet understand, but want too, which is why I keep reading. -Edbrown05 03:05, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Contrast between group and individual actions
There has been a subtle change in meaning over the last few edits which I'm not sure is entirely accurate.

In the west the focus tends to be on individual people's actions, and the results of these actions on other individuals. The article is now written to imply that individual Muslims should apologise for the suffering they, personally, have inflicted on other individual Baha'is.

I'm not sure this is what was intended. When the Pope apologised on behalf of the Catholic Church for the persecution of galileo he wasn't apologising for anything he, as an individual, had done. He apologised on behalf of the entire community for something that had been done by the same community many centuries previously. The same is the case when people today apologise for the historical injustice of slavery, racism or discrimination.

This concept of group or community responsibility is perhaps easier to understand from an Arab perspective (for example) than from a western perspective.

The way I understood it the academic was calling on the Muslim community, as a group, to apologise for the suffering they, as a group, had inflicted on Baha'is, as a group and others. Presumably this would include the massacres of the 1850s which no individual alive today could be considered responsible for.

I appreciate that some westerners today think that group responsibility is a bad thing - even racism. It is wrong to hold against someone something that others have done, even if tehy are in the same community. However, in this case it was an Arab Muslim addressing an Arab Muslim audience and I think we should reflect these cultural norms.

I would like to change the article back to properly reflect this. Any comments? AndrewRT 18:53, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

so who's this one person thats going to appolise for all the muslims ? the way the article is now seems to be fine.--Whywhywhy 06:59, 27 November 2005 (UTC)


text:
User talk:203.217.67.253

Welcome
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title: User talk:203.217.67.253


text:
Bomb blasts hit south Thailand market town Sungai Golok

November 20, 2005

Police in Thailand have reported two bomb explosions in the southern province of Narathiwat. Twelve people are reported to have been injured, including three police officers, a two-year-old boy, and a 58-year-old Malaysian tourist.

The two explosions came within a five minute interval around 6:00am local time (23:00 GMT). The target of the attack was a restaurant in a market town, Sungai Golok, which borders with Malaysia. Police Captain Teerapak Sengseng said that the first of the explosive devices was concealed in a fruit basket, and that as the blast was being investigated the second device exploded only metres away.

The ongoing violence which is believed to be the work of insurgents in the predominantly Muslim south of Thailand has resulted in over 1,000 deaths since January 2004, with the Associated Press putting the figure at over 1,100. The area remains under Martial law which was recently extended to some areas of neighbouring Songkla Province. The provinces, Yala, Pattani, and Narathiwat which were formerly the Malay Sultinate of Pattani are the only Muslim-majority part of the traditionally Buddhist country.

There have been some suggestions that residents of the southern provinces are not accorded the same opportunities as those in other parts of the country. Thailand's economic improvements from increases in tourism during recent years have not yielded any benefits to the troubled provinces. Public statements by the Thai Prime Minister, Thaksin Shiniwatra, have given the impression that areas which have not given support to his Thai Rak Thai political party will not be prioritised by his government; this impacts the south which returned opposition Democrats during elections earlier this year.

The almost daily violence in the provinces bordering Malaysia is expected to be among the subjects discussed at talks between former Malaysian Prime Minister, Dr. Mahathir bin Mohamad and Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shiniwatra. The former PM is expected to meet Mr Shiniwatra at his official residence in Ban Phitsanulok early next week.


text:
Talk:Bomb blasts hit south Thailand market town Sungai Golok

I'll point you to,  , and my archive of reports. Brian McNeil / talk 13:49, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Time
Can someone double-check the times quoted in this. The report from the Bangkok Post cites the explosions as around 6:10am, By my calculations that should be 23:10 GMT prior day. I am reliable informed Thailand is plus six hours to me and I'm in CET (GMT+0100). Brian McNeil / talk 14:29, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Title
Anyone any ideas for a better title, you could have a story with this title several times a week in that area. Brian McNeil / talk 14:59, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


text:
User talk:The Deviant

Welcome
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title: User talk:The Deviant


text:
Category:November 20, 2005

de:Kategorie:20.11.2005 es:Categoría:20 de noviembre de 2005 fr:Catégorie:20 novembre 2005 it:Categoria:20 novembre 2005 ja:Category:2005年11月20日 pl:Kategoria:20 listopada 2005 pt:Categoria:20 de novembro de 2005 ru:Категория:20 ноября 2005

title: Category:November 20, 2005


text:
User:MAlbano~enwikinews

For more information on this user, please see the following page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MAlbano

title: User:MAlbano~enwikinews


text:
APEC 2005 wraps up

November 20, 2005

The Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation, APEC 2005 wrapped up this weekend with trade impasse unresolved. Member countries fell short of blaming EU for causing the impasse. The EU has been largely criticized for not opening up its own agriculture market. South Korean Foreign Minister Ban Ki-moon said "The leaders here ... are basically saying that now the ball is in Europe's court".

Member countries talked of high oil prices hurting their economies and agreed on energy efficiency, conservation and diversification. Supply and demand issues were not clarified.

title: APEC 2005 wraps up


text:
60th anniversary of Nuremberg trials marked

November 20, 2005 The city of Nuremberg has marked the 60th anniversary of the opening of the trials against Nazi war criminals.

At a ceremony in the Palace of Justice, where the tribunal was located, participants of the trials gathered and remembered. Whitney R. Harris, a member of the U.S. prosecution team, emphazised the importance of Nuremberg for contemporary international law claiming that "the principles of the Nuremberg case have been followed in recent years and the fact that we conducted Nuremberg has given impetus to the establishment of these more recent tribunals". But the president of the International Criminal Court (ICC), Philippe Kirsch, is frustrated that there is still opposition against modern international tribunals like his court: "The spectre of politically motivated prosecution which is a running theme against the ICC is so unfounded that it is to me intellectually difficult to understand".

On November 20, 1945 the trials began in the courtroom 600 of the Palace of Justice. A total of 24 defendants were tried, among them Hermann Göring and Rudolf Heß. With Geoffrey Lawrence being chair of the court, the trial took 218 days and ended with 12 death sentences, 7 jail terms and 3 acquittals. One defendant killed himself during the trial, another one was declared unfit to stand trial.

Some controversy does exist as to whether the Nuremberg Principles have been adhered to in the years following the trials. Noted intellectual author, Noam Chomsky, has claimed that all US presidents since the end of the war would be judged to be war criminals according to these principles.


text:
User talk:24.8.199.28

Welcome
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title: User talk:24.8.199.28


text:
Talk:British man fully "recovers" from HIV

Human Immunodeficency Virus - stylized rendering.jpg
Please replace the image in the upper right corner with "Human Immunodeficency Virus - stylized rendering.jpg". Thanks. Siebrand (talk) 18:12, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅--Mark Talk to me 13:57, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


text:
Coal mine floods in northern China: 12,000 mines ordered to close

November 20, 2005

Update November 21, 2005: All of the 14 miners missing were confirmed dead on Monday, the official Xinhua News Agency said.

Seven miners have been killed and seven more are missing after a coal mine flooded in north China's Hebei province. The Xinhua news agency reports the latest coal mine disaster occurred around 5:00 a.m. on Saturday in Xingtai City.

A reason for the accident has not yet been given. Owners of the coal mine have been detained by local police and the investigation into the cause of the flooding is underway. State media reports say the disaster occurred at a pit in Xingtai City, but gave few other details.

China's mines, many of them illegal, are considered the world's most dangerous. More than 6,000 miners died in accidents in China last year, according to previously released government figures. Other independent estimates put the real figure at around 20,000.

Saturday's accident follows a gas explosion at a coal mine in south-western China's Guizhou province on Friday killing at least ten people.

Xinhua reports that rescue work is underway, according to the local work safety supervision bureau. A spokesman said Yuanda Coal Mine, a collectively-owned mine in Neiqiu county of Xingtai, was flooded and all the 14 miners working down the pit were trapped.

This is the second fatal mine accident in the area in two weeks. Cave-ins at three plaster mines on November 6 caused 33 deaths and left at least four missing.

Government orders closure of 12,000 mines
A committee for safe production, under the State Council, on Sunday urged relevant local governments to streamline the operation of mines and close unqualified ones.

More than 12,000 Chinese mines have been ordered to suspend production, and they will be closed if they fail to pass government assessments at the end of this year, the committee said. A gas explosion on November 11 at a mine in Wuhai, a city in north China's Inner Mongolia Autonomous Region, killed 16 miners and wounded three others. The mine lacked a required safety license.

The committee said in a statement that other mines should draw serious lessons from the deadly accident and "steadfastly prevent illegal production and curb the occurrence of big mining accidents." (Source: Xinhua)


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Talk:Coal mine floods in northern China: 12,000 mines ordered to close

Chinese Mining Disasters
Considering the frequency of accidents, and the Chinese government's announcement to "close" some 12,000 mines, it might be worth a category on its own. At the very least theres a bigger story to be compiled on the issue. --elliot_k 18:41, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * How about a Disasters and accidents infobox? That's a category you can attach to articles like that.  If you can find me a picture — perhaps something from last year's tsunami — then I could set it up and we can see what people think. Brian McNeil / talk 18:51, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Suggested infobox
Any thoughts on the User:Brianmc/Template:Disasters and accidents template I've thrown together on my user space? Attached here. There's something up with the Heading which could do with someone a bit more experienced on wikicode than me, and I'd welcome suggestions on what to put in as other Wikipedia articles. Brian McNeil / talk 19:02, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


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Israeli Labor Party leaves government; early election ahead

November 20, 2005 A convention of the Israeli Labor Party in Tel Aviv decided on Sunday to pull its ministers out of the coalition government with the Likud Party of prime minister Ariel Sharon.

The decision results from an initative by party chair Amir Peretz, who was just elected to that office at the beginning of this month, succeeding Shimon Peres.

In his speech to the convention, Peretz accused Sharon's government of "humiliating" immigrants and poor people and said it had deepend poverty in the country. He called on Likud voters to switch to Labor because, "Likud has abandoned you".

Officials from both parties agreed that March 28, 2006 would be the date of early elections to the 17th Knesset.

Earlier today, Sharon thanked Peres for the work in the government and proclaimed, "Shimon, this is the beginning of our joint work". This statement is seen as reaffirming rumors that Sharon may quit Likud and form a new party, due to several disagreements with the Likud in the past.


text:
User:Brian McNeil/Template:Disasters and accidents

The tsunami from the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake as it hits a tourist resort


text: File:Peretz amir.jpg

title: File:Peretz amir.jpg


text:
User talk:Jenners~enwikinews

Welcome
Jenners, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! = Brian McNeil / talk 19:52, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
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Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Jenners. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Jenners~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

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title: User talk:Jenners~enwikinews


text:
German BND claims U.S. exaggerated Iraq WMD claims

November 20, 2005

One of the most important arguments in the run-up to the Iraq war made by Colin Powell in his United Nations speech and President Bush in his State of the Union address was that Iraq had an active biological weapons program and possessed mobile biological weapons labs. According to an investigation by the Senate Intelligence Committee, the main source for this information was an Iraqi defector codenamed Curveball who was a source for the German central intelligence agency BND.

Several German intelligence officials responsible for Curveball have now told the LA Times that the Bush administration and the CIA have repeatedly exaggerated his claims and ignored warnings of the BND that the source was unreliable. Recounting his reaction after seeing Powell's United Nations speech one German intelligence officer said: "We were shocked. Mein Gott! We had always told them it was not proven.... It was not hard intelligence." This corroborates reporting by the German weekly newspaper Die Zeit from 2003 and 2004 based on statements of unnamed senior German intelligence officials.

Nine months earlier, in May 2002, a fabricator warning was posted in Curveball's file in U.S. intelligence databases. Powell was never warned that his United Nations speech contained material that both the DIA and CIA had determined was false, even though several people present at Powell's CIA meetings were fully aware of this.

At this time German intelligence officers would not let the CIA meet directly with Curveball, but allowed a CIA doctor to draw blood samples. Questioning the validity of Curveball's information in front of his CIA supervisor, the doctor was advised to "Keep in mind that this war is going to happen regardless of what Curveball said or didn't say and the Powers That Be probably aren't terribly interested in whether Curveball knows what he's talking about."

Shortly after Powell's UN speech and several days before the invasion, United Nations weapons inspectors attempted to directly verify several key claims made by Curveball, but concluded that they were unsustainable. The White House insisted on its WMD claims based on Curveball's information.

Even after the invasion, when more and more of Curveball's accounts were shown to be pure fabrication, the CIA and the Bush administration relied on Curveball's information. When U.S. forces discovered trucks with lab equipment and Curveball claimed that these were identical to the ones he has been reporting about, the CIA rushed to publish a White Paper claiming that these trucks were part of Saddam Hussein's secret biological weapons program and Bush claimed publicly that "We found the weapons of mass destruction." Several days later, twelve of the thirteen WMD experts who analyzed the trucks agreed that the equipment was not suited for biological weapons production, with the only dissenting voice coming from the author of the original White Paper.

The White Paper remains posted on the CIA website to this date, and President Bush has not yet retracted his statement that Iraq produced "germ warfare agents" made in his State of the Union address or his postwar assertions that "we found the weapons of mass destruction."


text:
Talk:German BND claims U.S. exaggerated Iraq WMD claims

Here are some background sources from the BBC.

 * WMD Key points
 * Core of weapons case crumbling
 * Full text: Bush statement

Brian McNeil / talk 21:20, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Brian. The last link is quite useful for the article. The first two need careful attention, as the LA Times article points out that these reports fail to have included crucial information concerning Curveball. If someone is willing to put significantly more time into the article, it would be interesting to isolate the sections concerning Curveball and analyze this further. --vonbergm 22:25, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

pre-war intelligence infobox
Can somebody find out what happened to the pre-war intelligence infobox? It seems to have disappeared. --vonbergm 22:46, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It's listed on undelete requests, I didn't pay attention to the result of the vote to delete it, but it really did need cleaned up a lot. Brian McNeil / talk 22:48, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I see. I guess it got deleted. A lot of articles link to it though, so deleting it strickes me as problematic. And it would be useful to have such an infobox to provide some guidance through this confusing topic. Maybe someone with experience in infoboxes can get a hold of the old version and revise it. Or just let me know where it is and I will give it a try. --vonbergm 23:04, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


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Talk:60th anniversary of Nuremberg trials marked

The big section on Alfried Krupp kinda throws this out of balance. This is up as one of the lead articles at the moment and adding a section like that might be being a bit too bold. I don't know if it needs equal quantities on the others that stodd trial, a reduced quantity on him, or a mixture of the two. Brian McNeil / talk 21:24, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I've looked into this some more, Alfried Krupp doesn't even have a Wikipedia entry. If the sentences of anyone are going to be mentioned, it should be the players who have WP entries.  Even so, it isn't central to the story.  The main issue here is the anniversary.  Anyone who wants to know more about the events that happened sixty years ago can look at the Wikipedia article on the subject.  As to the six degrees of separation between him and GWB, I really don't think it belongs here.  It is POV.  It goes way beyond an insinuation that the President is related to Nazi Germany right over to stating it as fact.  As long as that section remains in I will make no objection to anyone tagging this with  and I hope I have made why clear. Brian McNeil / talk 21:51, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * There's a huge wikipedia entry on Alfried Krupp; I will do the link. It is only interesting historical stuff,imo, but if anyone feels it's too upsetting, just edit it out; I will not replace it. Neutralizer 22:04, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I do not see this huge entry, I see a Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name.
 * Yes, it's a bit hard to get to. I just put up the link to the actual wiki Nuremberg trial of Krupp and here's another one Neutralizer 22:28, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

The wrong Krupp
Gustav Krupp von Bohlen und Halbach was present at the Nuremburg trials, the Krupp you've put in this article was not, and the article you've linked to states that. He was tried at subsequent trials, see Subsequent_Nuremberg_Trials, not at the trial of the major criminals. These were in the years following the main globally-significant trials held in the city. For this reason I believe no information about Alfried Krupp belongs in the article, particularly as it is suiting a single POV that tries to portray the current US administration as inherently evil. Brian McNeil / talk 22:44, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Is it correct now? The wikim link goes to the trial that begins "The Krupp Trial (or officially, The United States of America vs. Alfried Krupp, et. al.) and includes the sentence "The main defendant Alfried Krupp always denied any guilt." Wow; what an imagination; who is talking about evil? This story is all about history ! Plus; the current administration is not referred to directly or indirectly in any of my edits...but as I said; if the historical facts are too shocking or dejavuish; then bury it back in its long forgotten hole; I won't be surprised or offended or angry at all; just trying to add some meat to the story that we won't find on CNN. Neutralizer 23:00, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

I understand now, Brian... Not the same trials. --Chiacomo (talk) 00:19, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't understand; wasn't Krupp's trial at Nuremburg? Neutralizer 02:33, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

 * It was. But when you're refering to "Nuremberg trials" you usually mean the Trial of the Major War Criminals Before the International Military Tribunal. Gustav Krupp (father of Alfried) was tried there but declared unfit. Alfried was later tried as part of the Subsequent Nuremberg Trials. All very confusing, indeed. --Deprifry|+T+ 06:33, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Oh; ok...yes I see that Krupp's trial was 1948; sorry all; thanks for clarification. Neutralizer 14:27, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm glad to see this cleared up now, but I'd like to go back to the point I made in bold above. This was my description of a POV that was being placed in the article, and if you want to do that you have to prove it, as the saying goes, beyond a shadow of a doubt. Based on the comment about not stopping others editing out the bit I flagged as inappropriate I did so before giving up for the night. Deprifry has explained this, but the fact that no useable source gave an article covering the anniversary and the Krupp that you'd added should have set off alarm bells. Brian McNeil / talk 21:11, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

chomsky quote
This Chomsky quote is very well known - i'm not sure if this is the best way to add it in - please NPOV it if you think it's not NPOV enough.

AFAIK, Chomsky would probably agree with the statement by Whitney R. Harris - at least if the statement were modified to some of the principles of the Nuremberg case have been followed in recent years. So they're not technically contradicting each other. The International Criminal Court is certainly going in the direction of the Nuremberg principles, it just happens that several states (especially the US) do not want it to operate fully according to those principles.

Anyway, we cannot put in the article what Chomsky would probably agree with nor what Whitney R. Harris would probably also agree with as a modification of his statement, so i'm just writing this on the talk page. Boud 13:14, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I think it actually brings some balance to an article that otherwise indicates that the nazi war crimes were somehow extreme. Neutralizer 19:55, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

 * No sarcasm please: this is an extremely serious topic. The nazi war crimes were of course extreme. Nearly everyone in the country where i live (Poland) has someone in their family (grandfather, cousin, ...) who either survived or was exterminated in a concentration camp. You may not believe that the statement by Chomsky is correct - many people do believe that the statement is correct. That's why i put the quote as a citation by Chomsky. This is NPOV. Boud 23:20, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

 * It isn't sourced, not even in the article on Chomsky himself - who, incidentally, wasn't involved in the commemoration of the anniversary of the Nuremberg trials. Brian McNeil / talk 20:04, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It is an NPOV fact that Chomsky made this statement. It is also an NPOV fact - see Noam Chomsky - that Chomsky is an intellectual highly respected for his research by many people e.g. According to the Arts and Humanities Citation Index, between 1980 and 1992 Chomsky was cited as a source more often than any living scholar, and the eighth most cited source overall. And it is also an NPOV fact that Chomsky is highly criticised by many people. As far as NPOV is concerned, that makes him neither right nor wrong. However, he is someone much better known around the English-speaking world than Whitney R. Harris, so the fact that he makes such as a statement is itself NPOV following a statement by Whitney R. Harris. Boud 23:20, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Is that meant to be funny? Adding a link to a copyright violation which is a piece of news completely unrelated to the story that the article is about?  Chomsky referenced Nuremberg in this apparently contentious quote as an emotive appeal to try and carry his argument.  He wasn't there, he had absolutely nothing to do with the event, and he doesn't belong in this article. Brian McNeil / talk 20:26, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Wrong: Chomsky referenced Nuremberg because he believes it to be an accurate statement. If we can cite what one person claims are applications of the Nuremberg principles today, then we can cite what another person claims about the applications of those principles. Secondly, this is not a copyright violation, it is a valid citation. And of course this is not funny. Many years ago i would have said that Chomsky's statement was obviously false. Since then i have met many people in different parts of the world, learned a lot more about the world, and now his claim IMHO is quite reasonable. In any case, my personal judgement about the truth of Chomsky's statement is only very marginally relevant: what is more important is the fact that he makes this statement and is well known for having made it. Boud 23:20, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Brian; it's a matter of programming, in my opinion. We,of western influence, are programmed to immediately accept connections between airplanes hitting buildings and old men in robes afar away in afghan caves....because our government tells us to...solving the biggest crime of the past 100 years in a matter of a few hours to our satisfaction.And we feel quite comfortable reporting that connection as being NPOV.

 * However, when we can actually see,as fact, that the price of a barrel of oil has increased from $16. on Sep/10/01 to $56. today; and we know that people other than the old guy in the robe are the ones benefiting from the price of oil; we simply can not put that 2 + 2 connection together because noone in authority has told us to.

 * Thus, most of us feel comfortable putting a geopolitical quote by someone with no geopolitical expertise into the article but we don't feel comfortable putting a geopolitical quote by a world reknown expert on geoplitical affairs into the article. People like Boud can see the world; but people like us control it. Neutralizer 01:57, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

 * The quote from Whitney R. Harris belongs, he was "a member of the U.S. prosecution team". As I've tried to point out above, Chomsky doesn't belong unless you want the article to be a piece of US-bashing that belongs in a tabloid.  I have work to get on with, but if this is not resolved by removing the Chomsky quote I will put a NPOV tag on the article and ask for input from others. Brian McNeil / talk 09:02, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Serious Topic
I agree, you may wish to look back at the parts of this very article that were deleted before you became involved;

http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=60th_anniversary_of_Nuremberg_trials_marked&oldid=166999

and at these articles to see not only how serious the topic still is.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html http://washingtontimes.com/national/20031017-110534-8149r.htm

Neutralizer 01:41, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

 * These sections were not deleted before I became involved. I deleted them because, as the discussion above illustrates, this is the wrong Krupp you added into the article.  The Fox article you cite for your crusade to get Wikinews to insinuate GWB is a Nazi is not in the least related to the anniversary of the start of the Nuremberg trials. Brian McNeil / talk 08:59, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry,Brian, your assumption that my above comment was meant for you is way off base; as I thought was obvious, I meant before Boud became involved. Your other assumptions are way off base as well. Neutralizer 15:05, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Sorry if this was directed at someone else, I took it personally that you were bringing up something which had been shown to be inappropriate for this article and which I thought was settled. Yes, cementing into law the principles that people today claim were applied at Nuremberg is important, and something the US continues to block citing constitutional reasons.  That, provided other countries who have refused to ratify the court were mentioned, might have been a more appropriate item to use to contrast 60 years ago with now.  However, this is now a past news item and I believe it should go back to what it was without the Chomsky quote.  I've yet to see any good argument why it belongs, Chomsky was using Nuremberg to make a point, not making any particular comment about it that is relevant to the anniversary. Brian McNeil / talk 18:36, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

NPOV
As I said, I've tagged this. My opinion is that the Chomsky quote does not belong, and I've made an effort to explain why. Chomsky did not attend the ceremony commemorating the trials, the interview which is used as a source for the quote is a copyright violation of the BBC's Newsnight programme which had absolutely nothing to do with the anniversary of the trials; the quote itself is targetting the US administration and the reference to Nuremberg is just used to elicit an emotional response. I already had a dispute over the inclusion of the Krupp information and, by their own research, those pushing that POV justified it's removal. The Chomsky inclusion brings nothing to the article except the POV of those who wish to include it. I have no opinion on the other quote, so if they both have to go so be it. In the meantime I'd like the tag to stay until a few other people provide input. Brian McNeil / talk 12:01, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * The article is about the anniversary. The quote would be appropriate, perhaps, for the Nuremberg articles on WP. It's not appropriate here, especially after the article has been published. --Chiacomo (talk) 18:45, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I concur. The quote is over a year old. It is not related to the commemorations and not a response to the previous quote as it might appear. --Deprifry|+T+ 20:03, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Writing any sort of news article about the Nuremberg trials without mentioning what the most cited (Arts and Humanities) author of the whole decade of the 1980s (and 8th most cited ever) says about the relevance of the Nuremberg trials would be ignoring the most basic context.
 * chiacamo and deprify: you are claiming that the news event is the anniversary, the commemorations. Sure. But are you seriously trying to say that any anniversary is important only because it is 10N years since the event, where N is a positive integer? Aren't the event itself and its consequences important? Can we accept wikinews articles about the 60th anniversary of someone's pet parrot catching a bad cold? Isn't the fact that its consequences have been, to a large extent, hypocritically ignored by all the most powerful states, except when its in their interests, an extremely relevant context?  After all, the fact that Whitney R. Harris made a comment about how the principles are being applied recently and that someone thought this is relevant suggests that the consequences of the event are relevant. There are no quotes of what sort of biscuits or tea or coffee Harris drank at the commemorations. Why? Because it's irrelevant. What is relevant? The ways in which the Nuremberg principles are being applied and being ignored in the present is important context. Boud 20:54, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * First, I was wrong. The quote isn't a year old. It is over 15 years old. Things have changed since then. The ICC has come around for example, something Harris probably was refering to. Chomsky couldn't have known of these things when he made his speech in 1990. Now, I found two article which are relating to the anniversary, and which also include quotes from people who support the ICC and critizise the United States' oppostion to it, something which I believe you were alluding to. First Der Spiegel and then The Times. If you were to include something from these articles, I personally would be fine with that. --Deprifry|+T+ 21:17, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * The quote remains valid - the BBC quote is from 2004. The creation of the ICC doesn't affect the validity of the quote. Boud 13:54, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * The moderator uses the quote in his introduction to highlight the controversial nature of Chomsky. Nuremberg is not talked about once in the entire interview. I'm sure there are quotes from dozens of notable people about the Nuremberg trials. What makes a fifteen year old quote so fundamentally different that it is relevant to articles? --Deprifry|+T+ 14:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I can agree with Deprifry's comments, associating the anniversary with the ICC using recent reports would be quite appropriate. Harris alluded to it with his statement, which was made at the ceremony.
 * As to the copyright violation which you brought up on WN:A, it's the informationclearinghouse source that hosts a copyright violation and we should not be linking to that. Brian McNeil / talk 07:58, 26 November 2005 (UTC)
 * NPOV is about getting the facts. informationclearinghouse appears to be a non-commercial website which reproduces information for the public good, under the protection of fair use provisions. Boud 13:54, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

 * The quote which initially led to me putting a NPOV tag on this article was reintroduced without any consensus. I hope my last edit satisfies those who wish that included without resorting to tagging the article.  However, this was done after the article had initially been published and used as 2nd lead.  My understanding is that edits following publication should be minimal. Brian McNeil / talk 19:05, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

individuals vs governments
Brian: nice to see we're getting close to NPOV consensus. :).

 * 1) The Nuremberg principles are for individuals, not governments (administrations, in US terminology).

 * 1) Also, failed to live up is very euphemistic and imprecise - Chomsky does not just claim that post-WWII US presidents acted somewhat against the spirit of the principles, he claims that if tried under the same principles with the same penalties, then they would all be condemned and executed. Boud 10:26, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I did read the Nuremberg principles WP page, but didn't notice the subtle distinction that they applied to individuals. Brian McNeil / talk 10:35, 30 November 2005 (UTC)


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Chaudhry's son marries Tui Lau descendant in Fiji

November 21, 2005

Sachindra Chaudhry, the youngest son of Fiji Labour Party leader and former Prime Minister Mahendra Chaudhry, married Marian Ma'afu, a descendant of Fiji's first Tui Lau Enele Ma'afu, in a Hindu ceremony at Wailailai Temple in Ba yesterday. A Christian wedding will follow at Sacred Heart Cathedral in Suva next week.

Intermarriage between Fiji's indigenous and Indian communities is uncommon. Speaking for the family, Chaudhry's elder brother, Rajendra, said that the union was for love and that nothing political should be read into it. The union was a personal love-match between two who had known each other for more than six years, he insisted, and dismissed media speculation that the wedding was intended as a statement about uniting the two races, whose historical, cultural, religious, and political divisions have defined Fiji for generations. It was a proud day for the family.

Ma'afu's ancestor, Enele Ma'afu, was a Tongan prince who was exiled to Fiji following disagreements within the Tongan royal family. He conquered Taveuni and the Lau Islands, taking the title of Tui Lau (King of Lau). He later participated, with the Fijian King Cakobau, in the ceding of the islands to the United Kingdom in 1874. The Tui Lau title has since been held by such noted individuals as Ratu Sir Lala Sukuna (considered modern Fiji's first statesman) and Ratu Sir Kamisese Mara, independent Fiji's first Prime Minister and second President.

Chaudhry, who traces his ancestry to the state of Haryana, in north India, became the first of his race to be elected Prime Minister in 1999. He was deposed a year later, in the Fiji coup of 2000.


text:
User talk:67.124.226.20

Welcome
67.124.226.20, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! - Brian McNeil / talk 23:31, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
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title: User talk:67.124.226.20


text:
MediaWiki talk:Copyright

I put the cc meta data and icon on because:
 * Icons are cool
 * More people aware of our license
 * More people can find us (via googles advanced search:filter by licesence) via the metadata i put in there.
 * and probaly some other reason I forgot already. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 00:09, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Hmm, the text is overlapping the image here. --Deprifry|+T+ 06:34, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I centered it. Hows it now. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 23:45, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I like how now people can easily find us because of the meta-data, but I'm concerned that having the third button makes it look like footer creep. —M ESSED R OCKER (talk) 00:40, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Looking good IMO. --Deprifry|+T+ 06:26, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Meta data is seperate from the button. We could keep the meta data without the button. I just think buttons look cool. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 00:15, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Freedom Defined
I added the Freedom Defined version of the CC-BY logo to the footers instead of the Creative Commons one. In my opinion, it looks better. Revert me if you feel differently.  Thunderhead  ►  21:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

google analytics
We should probably put some info somewhere if we are going to have it. (aka, where and who gets the data collected, and is there any conflicts with the privacy policy) Bawolff ☺☻ 22:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm fairly confident that using Google Analytics to generate user statistics is a flagrant violation of the Wikimedia privacy policy. --+Deprifry+ 22:40, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * (1) is this the proper place to discuss this (water cooler?) and (2) could you add some background for us non-technical wikinewsies? --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 08:37, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Now an external company beyond our control and with a known interest in data mining will be able to collect personally identifiable data (i.e. IP addresses) and tie them to visits to specific articles at a specific time. --+Deprifry+ 09:54, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

=> Discussion move to Water cooler/technical. --Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 10:02, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Typo
editprotected "Comunity" => "Community" (2 times) Van der Hoorn (talk) 12:48, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

 * ✅ ♪Tempo di Valse ♪ 16:51, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Changing the CC-BY icon
Editprotected

I would strongly encourage to replace current icon by well-known, widely used standard and CC itself created/defined  icon.

Thank you.

— Danny B. 13:04, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I've no idea who created the yellow CC-BY icon, but it's a lot more pleasant and friendly than the current dull grey one. I'm guessing, but the yellow one was perhaps current when the CC-BY-2.5 license for Wikinews was selected (and is still in-use).
 * If changing the icon, are there any more friendly-looking ones than the drab default? --Brian McNeil / talk 17:11, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

 * ❌. We're not on the most-current CC-BY license, so the default CC icon may mislead somewhat. But, it's always been in-use here. --Brian McNeil / talk 09:23, 5 July 2012 (UTC)

SVG CC-BY image now availabe
There is now a SVG variant of File:CCBY yellow.png so if you want to make the switch just letting you know.Offnfopt (talk) 14:24, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

title: MediaWiki talk:Copyright


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title: File:21November2005.pdf