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Comments:Norwegian government considers prosecuting Scientology

The first line. "The Norwegian Ministry of Health and Care Services is considering prosecuting and banning some Scientology practices, in particular the use of the Scientology personality test to sell courses" convince me that Scientology in Norway is BS just like the rest of them.--66.229.17.49 (talk) 01:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't quite understand your comment. Could you clarify? --129.241.150.178 (talk) 09:08, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

SINCE 1995 THERE IS NO MORE LIST THE PARLIAMENT CAN' T BE OF ANY JUDGEMENT ABOUT RELIGIONS OR CULT BUT WHEN THERE IS CRIMINAL ACTIVITIES ,MIND CONTROL TECHNIQUES AND BLACKMAILING ACTIVITIES FRAUD MONEY EXTORSION THEN IT BELONGS TO THE  DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HE CULT AND ITS LEARDERS HAVE TO BE PROSECUTED JUST LIKE EVERY AVERAGE CITIZEN IF THEY ARE INNOCENT THEN THEY HAVE TO PROVE IT ??? BUT I THINK THE SCAM WAS RIGHT INTO THE DEBATE AND THE COMPLAINT —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.94.53.19 (talk)

I don't get it
Why don't some people like Scientology? They seem harmless enough. Everything they're accused of can also be ascribed to many well-beloved religions of today, in the past. *Cough*Catholicism*Cough* 206.74.5.136 (talk) 16:08, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Seem like a good idea
They seem to fond the good compromise... It should not be illegal to have any crazy believe, but if these believe are use to fraud or use in violations of existing healthcare regulations (or other regulations)... Sue the reponsable on these acusation only.

The church defense is that they were acting individually... If it is the case, they should have nothing against puting them in jail for little accusation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.167.170.253 (talk)

Big fuss for exerting money from Scientology by false accusation
If anyone reads the Scientology personality test, he/she would definitely agree that there is no more harmless thing on Earth.

These are very simple questions, nothing fancy, nothing esoteric, and nothing very personal - you could ask these questions from a stranger on the street, and would get an answer without much effort. Also these are like a yes/maybe/no questions, not some heavy essay questions...

Personality tests are just to have a vague understanding of someone. You can fill them even without your name and address if you want to...

Personally, I think if someone "gets disturbed" by these questions, he/she would get disturbed by everything around him- or herself.

The most you can accuse the test of is that it takes about 15-20 minutes to fill. Again, if someone would commit suicide over the length of the test, he would commit suicide over anything, not having the necessary attention span to barely be able to live.

This news piece smokes from someone trying to abuse the current situation and trying to exert money from the Church of Scientology.

If Mr. Olav Gunnar Ballo thinks that someone can be driven into suicide with 200 questions on paper, he is a madman, and we can surely see from where did her daugther, Kaja inherited her suicidal madness.

--89.134.215.5 (talk) 09:38, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If you had read the article, you would have known that the case centers on what people are told in the sales session after they've taken the test, rather than actually filling out the test yourself. Hence the hidden recordings. Testing experts have criticised the test itself for being bunk, but suicide experts have criticised the sales sessions without commenting on the test itself. They said that even a valid psychological test should not be used in this way.--ReneJohnsen (talk) 10:14, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Have you heard these recordings yourself? Is it publicly available? Because everyone writes about it but there is no way to objectively determine what happened there. I personally do not believe the press as it tends to exaggerate its pieces, since wild reports pay off.

 * Most reports, however, just talk about the personality tests, and see my remark above.--89.134.215.5 (talk) 10:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Full undercover recordings:
 * http://www.vgtv.no/?id=22119
 * http://www.vgtv.no/?id=22117
 * http://www.vgtv.no/?id=22116
 * --ReneJohnsen (talk) 12:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Well, unfortunately I do not speak Norvegian :-(... But the recordings do not seem to be harsh on the guys at all. This tone is general in evaluations in all area of education, and also, does not seem to heavily ponder on some faults without trying to suggest some solutions. I have attended universities and completed them with stellar results, and I saw these "let's look at you and get an overall review of you" type quick tests throughout my education. Now, looking at someone's weaknesses may feel bad a bit, but if someone honest and want to improve, this is the first step.

 * Some of my most harsh reviews in the university were much-much-much heavier than this, but - with a few exceptions - I have learned a lot, and later found it very useful in my career. And I never blamed the guys who did the testing and reviewing for my deficiencies.

 * And sometimes, when I completely disagreed with a few of them, I did not go to kill myself, but had a laugh (or a swear ;-) and left them with their stupidity.

 * I do not know the content what is being said in the recordings, but do you really think that this type of calm conversation could lead to someone's suicide? I mean, even if someone pisses you off, you Swear, Leave him and Go Away. (my highly successful SLGA approach :-)...

 * I think that Kaja went in in a "nothing matters anymore" frame of mind, and she had already made her decision beforehand. --89.134.215.5 (talk) 13:52, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You think the tone of a person's voice is what separates an ecounter which leads to suicide from one which doesn't?--ReneJohnsen (talk) 14:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Well, if you do not feel threatened you can leave as you please. Also, the guys who did the tests for do not seem to be very sad or angry or whatever. I am just trying to point out that if someone kills him/herself from this, he/she had already gone mad. People do not kill themself from being pissed off, I mean the normal people do not. Look at mothers with 3-4 children, and you will get the picture how much stress a normal woman can endure, without proper sleeping and with heavy noise and lots of problems. If Kaja killed herself because of this, she would have killed herself over anything. --89.134.215.5 (talk) 14:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think the mood in question is being pissed off and angry, but rather despair over being told that you're a useless person who is a burden on your family and friends. Olav Gunnar Ballo asked afterwards "why didn't she just call us, we could have laughed about the silly test together", but maybe she took it too seriously.
 * I think most people are able to survive a Scientology sales pitch, but I understand if it's hard on some people. Perhaps it could be compared to randomly pushing down people in the street; most people won't come to much harm, but if one of them has an heart condition (which you can't see from the outside), you might be held responsible if they die maybe.--ReneJohnsen (talk) 22:28, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


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Comments:Controversial U.S. abortion doctor shot dead in Kansas church

There is nothing good about nor which can come from this story. An ELCA church goes apostate on God and allows a baby murderer to be an usher, violating with giddy pride the command in the book of Titus for church leaders and overseers (including ushers) to be above reproach. (Titus 1:7) And they do this in spite knowing fully that they are without excuse. (Romans 1:20.) As if Reformation of Witchita giving all Lutherans a bad name weren't bad enough, things get worse. Some nut vigilante takes the law into his own hands to deliver his own form of justice to the butcher; and in a place where (perhaps-not-so)-innocents are endangered.

This all seems to happen conveniently around the same time that Janet Napolitano and DHS consult with SPLC to accuse all who oppose abortion of being "extremists," equating them with the Taliban (Which is absurd!) I'm not ready to point a finger at just one individual or organization yet, but it seems to me that somebody wants a second American civil war to happen, and will do anything to start one. Without some sort of resolution to the contrary, it seems more and more likely that abortion is the new slavery and the butcher-doc's killer is the new John Brown.

Edit: Actually, the verse that says one should be "above reproach" is in 1 Timothy 3. My apologies. The emphasis is on many of the same things mentioned in Titus, but 1 Timothy 3 goes further: "Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect..." (8), "... They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons." (9 & 10, NIV)

It seems as if the ELCA church he served at did not test him on whether or not he saw any worth in the teachings in Jeremiah 1:5: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart..." If his practice ignored that teaching, then how did he pass the test unless the congregation didn't care (or made extra-biblical rationalizations)?

Moreover, if he was dealing under-the-table money with politicians, as he was accused of frequently, then did he really have the right kind of reputation to be an usher?

It may be unlawful for a vigilante to kill him, but it is also wrong of the state to violate due process (as the Judicial Branch did in 1973 by legalizing abortion while circumventing Congress) to sanction his unrightful killing as a way of life. Clearly, there are no winners in this case. The state does have the right to not bear the sword in vain, and "turning the other cheek" does not mean not defending one's self, friends, family, etc from others' tort. It means not avenging every single insult or mishap. In self-defense and in punishing murderers lawfully through due process, there are times and places where it is worthwhile to kill.

But what Tiller's assassin did is none of that. Remember the woman accused of adultery that was to be stoned? The crowd, by the Torah, had every right to say that if she was adulterous as accused, then it was wrong. The Bible COMMANDS such judgment, based on the Word and not on petty human rationale. (John 7:24) BUT...it was no longer the job of the Jews to execute her. The Romans were the authority, and only they back then could call for her to be executed for adultery BY DUE PROCESS. The Jewish leaders wanted to trick Jesus into saying that they could deal with her through VIGILANTE murder. By being vigilante murderers, they would be doing something that Leviticus declared just as worthy of death as adultery itself! That's why they were told: "May he without sin throw the first rock." They knew if they were breaking the law through their vigilantism, then they were in the wrong, no matter how much she deserved to die (or didn't.)

Tiller's case is identical. The assassin threw the rock. He didn't care it was an act of vigilantism to make up for an impotent state that protects the blood of the guilty but not the blood of the innocent. He didn't see things that way. He just saw a man that needed to take the fall, and fired his gun with little extra thought. No due process. Therefore, due process will hopefully give the vigilante what he deserves.

--76.20.185.245 (talk) 02:30, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Foetus != baby. You don't kill a foetus but denature it. Dave420 (talk) 16:36, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * A fetus exhibits the characteristics necessary for life. To end its life it to kill it.  At 24 weeks and later (ie when Tiller performed his abortions), the fetus looks almost identical to a human infant.  The only major difference is its location, a few inches away from the outside world.  There have been miraculous cases of survival outside the womb at 24 weeks and later as well.

At conception, a new, unique organism with the full compliment of chromosomes is formed. All of the genetic traits are determined. In humans this includes gender, hair color, eye color, adult height, facial features, risk factors for diseases and disorders, and much more. Environment (nurture) can alter one or more of these characteristics before or after birth, but a fertilized egg at conception has the same genetic material (nature) as it does at maturity. It is also worth noting that the words "foetus" and "baby" have very similar orgins. They both refer to an animal's "young" or "offspring" and the only key difference is again, location. Even abortion providers have referred to their activies as "death" or "destruction" of the fetus.

Whether or not you support abortion is up to you. Do not, however, try to claim that abortion does not kill fetuses. Please pay a little attention to science when you make your arguments. 174.2.11.15 (talk) 23:18, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Who ever left the above comment seems to be a little misinformed:

"'For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre.' -- Titus 1:7 KJV"

Nothing here says anything about those lower than the rank of bishop. An usher clearly is lower than that so that argument from scripture is null and void if it is to be interpreted literally.

"'For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; that they are without excuse...' -- Romans 1:20 KJV"

This statement only seems to be about people who see no evidence of the existence of the god Jahova. Again, this person clearly does see some evidence or he wouldn't be involved with his church so closely.

I find it ironic that this man, who does provide a needed service, because in some cases abortions are medically necessary, is a Christian of any kind. This does not mean he deserves to die. Jesus sought to tell people to turn the other cheek rather than seek retribution. It is fundamentally against the tenets of Christianity to kill this man for the method by which he makes a living. What he has done, as a Christian man, is between him and god and as such other men need not meddle in this because in the end, he will supposedly answer for what he has done.

I find the killing of other human beings by other human beings to be beyond excuse for any reason. I am not saying what the abortionist did is right or moral (although it may, logically have been the right course in some cases) but neither is the act of the killer right or moral. It is an equal transgression. It will not lead to a civil war. People simply need to realize there is absolutely nothing worth killing for, and absolutely nothing worth dying for. -Eric 03:17, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Right or wrong?
What goes around comes around. This man killed hundreds and possibly thousands of innocent and defenceless human beings in the womb. That kind of karma was bound sooner or later to catch up with him -- and it did. All the putrid "we denounce the cowardly act .. blah blah blah" I have been reading makes me sick. The man who did this was no coward, he knew exactly what he was doing and had the resolve of a tiger, and followed through, and even stayed his hand when two other parishioners tried to stop him -- he could have killed them too but did not. It's also clear he knew full well the consequences and did it anyway. Obama's weak statement shows his little world all in chaos over this -- what would you expect from a spineless ex-attorney anyway?
 * The guy who walked into a church and shot a doctor in cold blood was a murderer. Anyone who says he was right because of some religious bullshit needs their head examined. Christianity is, sans holy-moly-bullshit, basically worshipping some dude who was nailed to a cross around 2,000 years ago for suggesting people be nice to each other for a change. Shooting people ain't being nice. --Brian McNeil / talk 08:15, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I am not a Christian nor do I accept any "religious bullshit". I personally think religion is nothing more than mass insanity and the bible a "book of fables".  But there is balance in the world and cause and effect, and this guy killed over 65,000 babies in the womb -- he got back exactly what he gave to this world.  Fuck "being nice" -- nothing you say, nothing I say, nothing anyone does matters AT ALL.  All of our culture and brain farts mean NOTHING.  We are nothing more than machines made of carbon and are disposable containers for DNA.  So take comfort in the thought that your life and anyone else means NOTHING and your fate and that of every person on this planet is to eventually die and be discarded as a disposable container for DNA -- which only cares about making copies of itself -- and that includes this turd who got exactly what he deserved.  Consider it this way.  One DNA template happened to recognize an aberrant DNA copy on the loose erasing and preventing other DNA templates from replicating, and activated in survival mode -- the result -- George Tiller, and his damaged and defective DNA template was erased.  Life preserves Life -- a simple fact of biology.

 * I think what's telling is that you assume the poster is Christian when he made no reference to Christianity in his post, and in fact referred to "karma" which is a concept entirely foreign to Christianity. For my part, I denounce this reckless violence, and while I think late-term abortions are wrong, I also think them less severe a wrong than murder. My intermediate views on abortion seem to peeve both sides whenever I wade into a debate on the subject. 209.30.89.135 (talk) 14:14, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * This was not reckless violence but a programmed survival response that chimes to my own DNA and that of most people geared towards reproductive success. I do not denounce or condone it.  Moral judgements mean absolutely nothing here -- the situation simply "is".    Homosexuals are in a similar category to George Tiller, but not nearly so dangerous to humanity as a whole.  At least in the case of homosexuals, their DNA has internally recognized it is damaged and unfit for replication and has turned the disposable soma towards a strategy to block reproduction.  And not surprising, pro-abortion and gay rights groups go hand in hand.  Damaged DNA clustering together ....

 * You sound like some kind of kook. You're condoning murder because of some strange, pseudo-scientific nonsense about sentient DNA molecules turning people gay. I think further conversational engagement with you would prove pointless. 209.30.89.135 (talk) 14:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * A kook with an IQ approaching 200. It is pointless to engage with Neanderthals who are incapable of grasping the ultimate truth.  The truth that our destiny is to reproduce until our DNA is perfected to the point we overcome our self imposed limitations, become biologically immortal and can at last conquer the stars and spread our seed across the cosmos.  Long way off near as I can tell.  Go back to your stone knives and bearskins.  :-)

 * Dude, seriously, this is some of the funniest stuff I've ever read. Our DNA is programmed to survive, and nothing more.  Not perfect itself yadda yadda.  I'm wondering if the online test that gave you such a high IQ score also told you which Battlestar Galactica character you are.  Only idiots without a real defense to their position start a pissing contest with the outdated IQ score. 192.101.252.103 (talk) 05:54, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Would you be so kind as to send your name, address and passport details to the UK border authorities? We ban racists, including homophobes, from entering the country. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 15:03, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * There's that programmed response activated within the damaged DNA of an inferior and damaged DNA copy threatened by a masculine and virile heterosexual man.  You know, everytime I fly to Europe I avoid Heathrow airport since you have to be bused between air terminal buildings and stand in three lines in and old shitty airport terminal where people are allowed to smoke all over the place with pictures of its old shrivelled Queen and her fornicating son who lives with another man's wife, Prince Charles the (alleged) pervert in chief.  There's also that dismal concourse of crappy shops where everything is priced at 10x the going prices for a coke even at US Movie theatre standards.  I usually fly directly into Paris or Düsseldorf and avoid the UK.   It's a sad little shitty country with United States "wannabee" envy and has stupid TV, and a dismal lifestyle. perpetual rain, bad weather, and you never see the sun.  Why on earth would anyone with any class want to visit such a cesspool of a country.   Things are getting worse there from what I hear as well.   As stated I fly around it anyway.  It reminds me too much of the dismal bus stops I used to see as a teenager while travelling by bus as a teenager in the American West -- a lot like West Texas -- and the people are about as friendly.  Ever wonder why most brits look alike?  From all the in-breeding and a small gene pool.  Kind of like happens on isolated islands in the Pacific....

 * I hardly find heterosexual men challenging. I am one. Unlike you, I'm not threatened by homosexual men either. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 15:42, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * No. Just a sewer mouthed brit with a huge ego (like most self absorbed brits).  I never met a brit who wasn't a plastic two-faced phony and who would not hesitate to stab anyone in the back.  I have work to do today, see you around the universe.  :-)
 * Nah, Brits don't stab people in the back for being racist. They just put "Kick me, I voted BNP" stickers on their back. --Brian McNeil / talk 16:03, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * America (modern) was founded using that same genepool. Funny that.... 203.32.16.50 (talk) 02:11, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Re:209.30.89.135, late-term abortion is not made available as a "lifestyle choice" it is usually for the health of the mother. The law defines what 'murder' is, there is due process, and it is part of your social contract that you do not take the law into your own hands and call yourself committing murder 'justice'.

You can argue against late term abortion, but - regrettably - you will be lumped in with the nuts who believe barrier contraception is a sin. However, killing doctors, threatening them with anonymous phone calls, and firebombing clinics are acts of terrorism. --Brian McNeil / talk 16:08, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I've said it before, and I'll say it again: foetus != baby. You don't kill a foetus but denature it. Dave420 (talk) 16:36, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Let me clarify
In all honesty, Brian, why should we trust Obama over plain reason as to what defines "murder"? If you read my above notes carefully, you'll note that I neither excuse the doctor nor his killer, and state my case as to why both were in the wrong on every level. Also, who's gonna lump me in with "nuts"? Napolitano herself, who is one to talk?

I believe anything unnatural that kills a zygote after it is formed is murder, even if it doesn't get implanted in the wall of the uterus. I do not feel that about those contraceptives which ensure that the zygote never forms. Those, at the very worst, are just cowardice, but that depends on the circumstances of the sex partners. More women die in botched abortions than have EVER died during childbirth. And modern medicine has been able to save the lives of both ever since the 1960's. My grandma was a nurse then, and has witnessed proof of this.

Even if the mother were endangered by complications, it is her duty like a pelican's to be willing to rip her own chest apart and die to protect her children. A woman unwilling to sacrifice herself for her infant children is a nature-derelict.

Abortion is never excused. Nor is vigilante murder of abortionists. Ever. - 76.20.185.245 (talk) 16:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Bible Belt, what a nice place to live.
Violent pacification, Idiot. I always found it so funny that pro-life people can be so murderous. And just remember Jesus was a Jew. 203.32.16.50 (talk) 19:54, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Well, if you need the logic broken down, it goes like this: Jesus laid down his life to save us all, Scott Roeder laid down his life to save the unborn. He doesn't care if he gets the death penalty. He goes into the plus balance after the first abortion that George R. Tiller doesn't perform (due to being dead himself). God will forgive him, if not applaud him. What else do you need explained? --SVTCobra 01:38, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I happen to live in the area and know that Tiller was not a sole practitioner at his clinic, just the founder. He had two other full partners working with him and it has been reported that a replacement has already been decided on. His murder will have no effect on operations. Also, the shooter won't be getting the death penalty as the murder does not qualify under Kansas' capital murder scheme.

 * Doesn't any one remember "Thou Shall not Murder!". It is amazing the Christian belief of forgiveness.  That means that I can do absolutely ANYTHING and god will forgive me. Awesome.  Sorry doesn't wash, Murder is Murder, Scott Roeder will burn in Hell. I wonder if god forgave Hitler? 203.32.16.50 (talk) 01:26, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

hypocrites
If the far right Bible beaters talk about abortion being murder, then how do they justify this? Does this have an exemption? Hm. Violence doesn't stop violence. I wish hillbillies, "hockey moms", racists, the Eric Rudolph types and Fox News would understand that.

 * Maybe they don't justify this. Maybe they think it's heinous. You're putting words in their mouths while calling them names for a position that they haven't taken. That's intellectually dishonest. As for violence not stopping violence, that's a ridiculous platitude. History provides countless contrary examples. Hadrian's violent destruction of Judea stopped the violent slaughter of gentiles in the Bar Kokhba revolt, did it not? In fact, it stopped all violence in Palestine for an appreciable length of time, which didn't reemerge until the circumstances were much changed. I only give that example because it's something I've been reading about lately. Also, all the violence would indeed stop if someone took to the violent course of extinguishing humanity with nuclear weapons, would it not?

 * Sure, make all the arguments against violence that you want. I may well join them. But spare us all the nice seeming phrases that are patently untrue. If hillbillies, "hockey moms," and racists reject these, then perhaps their powers of reason are greater than I would otherwise have thought. 209.30.89.135 (talk) 05:40, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm Pro-Life
I feel this is horrible, despite the fact I am very pro-life myself, this doesn't help the cause of the pro-life movement, which is to be PRO-life. Taking the life of this man was wrong, even though he commited murder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.139.19.124 (talk) 22:28, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

MY PRAYERS GO OUT TO THE FAMILY OF THE VICTIM
I HATE HOW EVERY1 IS TRYING TO JUDGE SAYING THINGS LIKE WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND..THATS STUPID AND CHILDISH!!!! THIS DR DID HIS JOB..IS IT HIS FAULT THAT THE MOTHER DIDNT WANT TO DO HERS?? UM NO!!! HE DID NOT FORCE THESE WOMEN THEY MADE THERE OWN BED..LET THIS MAN REST IN PEACE ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 * My prayers go out to the unwilling and unwitting victims of the verbal assault that is your message. All caps is bad, mmmkay? --Brian McNeil / talk 17:13, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


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British singer Susan Boyle admitted to hospital

June 1, 2009 British singer Susan Boyle has agreed to be admitted to a local clinic for exhaustion, according to media reports. Boyle is said to have been taken by ambulance to the Priory clinic after she began to act strange in her hotel room, reportedly suffering an "emotional breakdown."

Staff for Britain's Got Talent allegedly called police after they noticed her acting strange while backstage after the finale of the popular talent contest. Boyle went to her hotel room and on the arrival of police she was ordered to be taken to a clinic under the Mental Health Act.

"Police were called to doctors assessing a woman under the Mental Health Act. The woman was taken voluntarily by ambulance to a clinic. At the request of doctors, police accompanied the ambulance," said Scotland Yard as quoted by The Sun.

Boyle, 47, from Blackburn, West Lothian, in Scotland, came in second place on Britain's Got Talent. Boyle was beaten by the dance group Diversity on Saturday who got 24% of the public vote, with Boyle receiving 20%. She took the world by storm after her debut appearance on April 11 singing "I Dreamed a Dream" from the award-winning musical Les Misérables. Just a day after appearing on the show, Boyle became a YouTube sensation with her performance receiving nearly 9 million views. To date, the YouTube clip has been viewed by nearly 65 million people worldwide.

Britain's Got Talent issued a statement supporting Boyle saying, "Following Saturday's show, Susan is exhausted and emotionally drained. We offer her our ongoing support and wish her a speedy recovery."

Simon Cowell, the show's owner and panel judge of the contestants, also issued a statement saying, "We're going to look after her. We've never had a runner-up like Susan before. She won over a lot of fans - not just with her voice, but with her graciousness."

It is not known how long Boyle will be staying at the clinic, but according to reports, she agreed to take time off from singing on advice of her doctor not long before being admitted.


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Hydrogen fuel cell cars promoted in various states, but U.S. federal funding cut

June 2, 2009 American Secretary of Energy Steven Chu is cutting US$100 million dollars from hydrogen fuel cell vehicle research and diverting the remaining $69 million to hydrogen fuel cell research for household current. Former president George W. Bush advocated the zero-emission vehicles and launched $1.2 billion for hydrogen fuel cell research over a number of years.

President Barack Obama is proposing a "corporate average fuel economy," or CAFÉ, placing standards for gas mileage at 39 miles per gallon for cars and light trucks at 30 mpg.

"The probability of deploying hydrogen-fuel-cell vehicles in the next 10 to 20 years is low." said Tom Welch of the U.S. Department of Energy. "We asked ourselves, 'Is it likely in the next 10 or 15, 20 years that we will convert to a hydrogen car economy?' The answer, we felt, was 'no,'" said Chu.

In response, the U.S. Fuel Cell Council and the National Hydrogen Association said, “The cuts proposed in the DOE hydrogen and fuel-cell program threaten to disrupt commercialization of a family of technologies that are showing exceptional promise and beginning to gain market traction. Fuel-cell vehicles are not a science experiment. These are real vehicles with real marketability and real benefits. Hundreds of fuel-cell vehicles have collectively logged millions of miles.”

“I just got the Clarity, which is a wonderful hydrogen vehicle,” said Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. He lent his car to The Hydrogen Road Tour.

On Tuesday, The Hydrogen Road Tour began in Chula Vista, California. Twelve hydrogen fuel cell cars by seven auto makers will arrive in Vancouver, British Columbia June 3 for the Hydrogen + Fuel Cells 2009 conference, a global hydrogen and fuel cell event. "The point really is to raise awareness about fuel celled vehicles and hydrogen, their benefits both to energy efficiency and the environment as well as to consumers because we really believe these vehicles are going to be a market winner," said Catherine Dunwoody, the Executive Director of the California Fuel Cell Partnership.

The Hydrogen Fuel Cells 2009 conference began June 1. "Our global environmental challenges, such as climate change, do not stop at the border," " said John Tak, conference Chair, "I am pleased that scientists, engineers, government representatives and businesspeople from more than 35 countries are coming to Vancouver, an active hub for hydrogen and fuel cell development, to help create solutions to these challenges."

The Ohio Fuel Cell Symposium was held in North Canton, Ohio on Wednesday and Thursday. "The hydrogen and fuel cell industries are at a stage where they have the momentum and energy to accomplish some truly revolutionary things in terms of how they apply their technologies," said William Whittenberger, president of Catacel Corp. These fuel cells produce electricity and exhaust carbon dioxide and water.

A hydrogen powered municipal street cleaning vehicle is currently being tested for the next year and half in Basel, Switzerland. "Our aim is to take fuel cell technology from the laboratory onto the street," said Empa's Internal Combustion Engines Laboratory Project Leader Christian Bach.

Dan Lutz, the fleet manager for the Beloit, Wisconsin public works department, experimented with retro-fitting his personal truck. The department now has a large pickup truck, a garbage truck, a recycling truck, a police squad car and a small pickup truck using hydrogen technology increasing gas mileage from 14 to 22 and 31 mpg. "We know the basic technology works, but the issue is, is it practical," said City Manager Larry Arft, "Can it be used realistically?"

The drawback is that the technology may rely on platinum, a rare metal, or palladium. Infrastructure would need to be changed to supply hydrogen fueling stations. Critics are also concerned about hydrogen fuel storage and the costs of retro-fitting existing vehicles.


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Comments:Iran hangs three suspects for mosque bombing, blames U.S. and Israel

The Iranian government is simply looking for an excuse to declare war on the US. To suggest that al-Qaeda, a group which openly hates the US, was working with them is simply ridiculous. This President is insane.--Sampi (talk) 06:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * What became al-Qaeda from the mujahadeen in Afghanistan was, at one point, armed, financed, and supported by the U.S. --Brian McNeil / talk 06:29, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * So losely they are correct that the US did arm al-Qaeda once upon a time. They're just taking that fact and twisting it around to support a lie as all good dictatorship's do. Except for the fact that they're a democracy which is a bit depressing. --122.148.210.58 (talk) 02:31, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

They always blame the US and Israel for everything. If the US bombed them, the few remaining would know. Israel is a little more into the subterfuge. It's not necessary for either. The oppressed population are fully capable themselves.


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Talk:Hydrogen fuel cell cars promoted in various states, but U.S. federal funding cut

Title
The title needs to say where this happened. They are certainly neither promoted nor government funded in my country. Blood Red Sandman (Talk)   (Contribs) 06:25, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Switzerland is doing a city vehicle trial, Ohio just had a symposium, Arnold Schwarzenegger promotes hydrogen fuel in L.A., and the "Hydrogen Road Trip" is underway between California, USA and Canada, and Beloit, Wisconsin is using city vehicles using hydrogen technology. These are the places which have all recently implemented hydrogen technology as promotional. Ohio is funding Hydrogen fuel cell technology currently. So now how to say all that in the title, Switzerland, USA and Canada. And the first paragraphs state the change in heart for funding federally in the United States.SriMesh | talk  15:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

The title makes it sound as if the world, ar at least a large number of countries, are both promoting and cutting funding. The article title shows this to be the focus. However, the reality is one country is both promoting and cutting funding. Blood Red Sandman (Talk)   (Contribs) 15:15, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the comment, the title is revised from Hydrogen fuel cell cars promoted but funding cut to the current title which focuses more on the current activities of various U.S. state projects some of which may be a reaction to the federal cut made, some were already planned previously. The new title is longer, but works out more of the W'sSriMesh |  talk  04:54, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


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Talk:British singer Susan Boyle admitted to hospital

Review
--Brian McNeil / talk 06:58, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


text:
Comments:British singer Susan Boyle admitted to hospital

i love susan and i really hope she pulls through. she showed me what real beauty is. <3

bet she has been working her ass off on this thing so it must be a bit of a hit to 'loose the gold'--80.167.173.75 (talk) 10:07, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If you think Susan Boyle is a "real beauty", you need to have your specs strengthened. Good gracious, it's been a long time since a more ridiculous piece of hype rose up out of the sludge where it belonged than Susan Boyle. 206.74.5.136 (talk) 16:05, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Good gracious indeed. KimiSan (talk) 16:15, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

>:O
I am SICK of journalists flying around the private details of famous lives- Susan Boyle is an extrememly talented singer- and that gift is what puts these headlines out there- yes- fans are concerned for her health in this instance- but the references to mental instability was COMPLETELY crossing the line of privacy. If you were having an emotional breakdown, would YOU want it broadcasted to the world?? I certainly wouldn't. Journalism is focused TOO much on what sells papers and multimedia rather than on informing the masses- i'm appauled. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pyrovypr (talk • contribs) 20:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

susan boyle=looney!
susan boyle is an ugly raving lunatic!


text:
Air France jet with 228 on board goes missing

June 1, 2009

Air France Flight 447 carrying 228 people from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil to Paris-Charles de Gaulle Airport is reported missing off the Brazilian coast. The flight was scheduled to arrive in Paris at 11:10 CET on June 1, 2009.

The Airbus A330-200 was last heard via radio at 22:30 local time (01:30 GMT). The Brazilian Air Force is confirming the disappearance of the aircraft, which vanished from radar approximately off the Brazilian coast. Reuters reports that an electrical short circuit during turbulence may have caused the plane to plunge into the Atlantic Ocean. The plane with registration F-GZCP has totalled 18,870 flight hours and went into service on 18 April 2005. Its last maintenance check was on April 16, 2009. "We have received no news from flight AF447," said Air France in a statement. The plane was carrying 12 crew members and 216 passengers, of which 126 men, 82 women, 7 children and one infant.

In a press communiqué, Air France stated that AF447 had encountered an area of heavy turbulence at 02:00 GMT and that the aircraft had sent an automatic message indicating an electric failure at 02:14 UTC.

Search and rescue operations by the Brazilian Air Force are to be initially centered on the island of Fernando de Noronha. The aircraft has been missing for a sufficient time that it will no longer have any fuel remaining if it was airborne.

French President Sarkozy said the prospects of finding survivors are "very small". He also requested that America use their surveillance satellites to assist in locating the plane.

Air France has provided three telephone numbers for the families and friends of those on board AF447:
 * 0800 800 812 for calls from within France
 *  0800 881 20 20 for calls from Brazil
 * +33 1 57 02 10 55, for calls from outside France or Brazil.

A "specially reserved area" of Charles de Gaulle airport's Terminal 2 is being used to care for the families of those on board AF447.


text:
Talk:Air France jet with 228 on board goes missing

Short-circuit
BBC are reporting on their news channel that Air France has announced the plane reported an electrical short-circuit following heavy turbulence. 90.242.146.190 (talk) 11:49, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the update! We are currently seeking sources, shouldn't be too long before we can add that information. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 11:55, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Missing jet reported short-circuit after turbulence via Reuters. 90.242.146.190 (talk) 12:00, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

CNN.com also reports that there was a pressure loss and Reuters now says

http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSL171108520090601

 * Air France spokesman says plane crashed

 * No news of the 228 people on board

 * Military planes from Brazil, Africa hunt for wreckage

Flight number
Flight number should be in the title for uniqueness. Never know how many airplanes they can fit down the back of the sofa. --Brian McNeil / talk 11:52, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I'd rather save the number for updates, but not use it for the first article since it assumes people know the flight. Perhaps move it to Air France jet with 231 on board goes missing? Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 11:55, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Ah! I knew I'd seen 231 somewhere: here's one that uses that figure. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 12:51, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Routes?
Found some images of the route... 70.29.208.129 (talk) 14:29, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I added the image on the right. Thanks for the suggestion. Smile.png Tempodivalse [talk]  14:37, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Fernando de Noronha
There's a map indicating the position of this island available... File:Orthographic projection centred over Fernando de Noronha.png

70.29.208.129 (talk) 14:41, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

image of plane
Perhaps this is a better image to use? File:Air France A330-200 F-GZCN cropped.jpg

70.29.208.129 (talk) 16:04, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Changed. Thanks for the suggestion. Tempodivalse [talk]  18:16, 1 June 2009 (UTC)


text:
Comments:Air France jet with 228 on board goes missing

Until we come up with a Air France A330 picture, why not use a picture of a Air France jet at least?217.14.8.121 (talk) 10:48, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Because it the image added was a Boeing plane. The one missing is an Airbus. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 10:50, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed, there is no real similarity. I'm trying to track down an A330 from Air France; failing that we could use an A330 of another company. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 10:52, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have found this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/phinalanji/1766079788/ 62.6.163.93 (talk) 11:26, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunatly, that picture has a license that forbids derivative work - something we ideally need. I may contact the uploader to get a better license for future use, but for now all we got is that one I've just added. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 11:50, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Well, we can always ask the user if he would be willing to release that photo under a free license. --Ixfd64 (talk) 17:06, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I don't know if that guy in particular has been asked, but I know a number of requests for pictures to be released freely have gone out - including for a number of pictures of the actual aircraft involved. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 17:10, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Fly-by-wire
I'm gonna say it: It looks like much of the industry's worst fears over fly-by-wire have been realised today. New aircraft (three years), electrical problems then crash... There are other possibilities, but it looks horribly like the electrical failure wiped out the fly-by-wire, with the result being that the plane was uncontrollable. Blood Red Sandman (Talk)   (Contribs) 12:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I watched the story break on HLN, they mentioned that there is a manual backup system that allows for controlling the aircraft in the event of Fly-by-Wire failure. -Eric 00:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Dear Unknown, I think the plane might have crash landed and are stuck somewhere in the island Cape Verde (near to Mauritania) and are stuck with no network or services to call for help.Perhaps some are killed and most are injured.Planes from France and Brazil and other countires as well from Africa must help search for the lost people as soon as possible as they may lose their lives.

Thank you, Mayda Alkhaldi Jeddah,Saudi Arabia

Hijacking ruled out?
What basis do the French have for ruling out some sort of hijacking? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.6.163.93 (talk) 04:23, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

more than a nightmare
This is one of the worst accidents I have ever heard of. Having survivors would be a real miracle. This could be their fate but it is awful. I wish I didn't watch TV or read the news on the internet. My warm condolence to all their families and friends. May God have Mercy on them.

Etaf from Jordan


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User:Mjroots

Mjroots on the English Wikipedia

title: User:Mjroots


text:
U.S. manufacturer General Motors seeks bankruptcy protection

June 1, 2009 United States automobile manufacturing firm General Motors filed for bankruptcy and protection from its creditors at 12:00 UTC Monday, in a,. This was the largest bankruptcy filing for a U.S. manufacturing company, and with declared assets of $82.29 billion and a debt of $172.81 billion, and the fourth largest bankruptcy filing in recent U.S. history — after the bankruptcies of {{w|Lehman Brothers|| ($691.06 billion), {{w|Washington Mutual}} ($327.91 billion), and {{w|WorldCom}} ($103.91 billion).

The filing
The filing, expected to be the first of many, was for a New York GM affiliate, Chevrolet-Saturn of Harlem Incorporated. Numbered 09-50026, it named GM as a, and was filed before judge Robert Gerber.

GM is to be represented throughout the filing process by Weil Gotshal & Manges, a New York law firm specializing in bankruptcy.

Restructuring of the company
The chief restructuring officer, named in the filing, is to be, a managing director at LLP in New York, who will report directly to , the  of General Motors.

Who the creditors are
In its bankruptcy petition, GM listed its primary creditors as:

The amount owed to UAW excludes "approximately $9.4 billion corresponding to the GM Internal ". USD22,760 millions are owed to bondholders.

Effects on the U.S. economy
Analysts have observed that the effect of the bankruptcy filing on the U.S. economy is not expected to be as major as it once would have been. One such voice, Mark Zandy, an economist at Moody's Economy.com, commented that "Bankruptcy now is irrelevant in terms of the economic consequence of what’s happening to GM." Such analysts believe that the economic impact of GM's problems has already been felt, with its effects on parts suppliers and employment. They also believe that GM's programme of accelerated payments, and its participation in a U.S. Treasury program to ensure prompt payments to parts manufacturers, will have cushioned the effect of the bankruptcy itself.

Speaking on Bloomberg Radio, David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in, stated that the fragility of the parts suppliers, the loss of whom would threaten the entire automobile manufacturing industry, was of more immediate concern than the GM bankruptcy.

Other related bankruptcy filings
Also filing for chapter 11 protection today were and Saturn Distribution Corporation, subsidiary companies of General Motors.

Dow Jones listing removed
As a consequence of the bankruptcy, General Motors Corporation (GM.N) was removed from the, and was replaced by (CSCO.O), these changes scheduled by  to take effect from the opening of trading on June 8.


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Barack Obama presents rescue plan after GM declaration of bankruptcy

June 1, 2009

In a televised speech from the White House at 16:00 UTC today, Barack Obama presented a reorganization plan following the 12:00 UTC announcement by  that it had filed for bankruptcy and  protection from its creditors, the largest bankruptcy of a U.S. manufacturing company. Describing the problem with the company as one that had been "decades in the making," Obama explained the rationale behind his proposed reorganization plan for General Motors. He stated that his intent was not to "perpetuat[e] the bad business decisions of the past," and that loaning General Motors money, when debt was its problem, would have been doing exactly that. His plan, he stated, was for the United States government, in conjunction with the governments of and  (which he thanked for their roles alongside the government of Germany which he thanked for its role in selling a corporate stake in GM Europe), to become shareholders in General Motors. The United States government would hold a 60% stake. The government will give GM a capital infusion of US$30 billion in addition to the funds it has already received.

Of the government ownership he stated that he refused "to let General Motors and Chrysler become wards of the state", and described the, and the bankruptcy of General Motors that he envisioned as being "quick, surgical, bankruptcies". He pointed to the bankruptcy of Chrysler as an example of what he envision for General Motors, but stated that General Motors was a "more complex company" than Chrysler.

Responding to challenges voiced by political opponents, before the speech, that the federal government would actively participate in the affairs of the restructured company, he stated that he had "no interest" in running GM, and that the federal government would "refrain from exercising its rights" as a corporate shareholder for the most part. In particular, he stated that the federal government would not exercise its rights as a shareholder to dictate "what new type of car to make." He stated that he expected the restructured GM to make "high quality, safe, and fuel-efficient cars of tomorrow," and several times described what he anticipated as "better" and "fuel-efficient" cars, after a streamlining of GM's brands.

He said to the general public that "I will not pretend that the hard times are over." He described the financial hardship that some — shareholders, communities based around GM plants, GM dealers, and others — would undergo as a "sacrifice for the next generation" on their parts, so that their children could live in "an America that still makes things," concluding that one day the United States might return to a time when the maxim (a widely-repeated mis-quotation of what once testified before the U.S. Senate when nominated for the position of Secretary of Defense) would once more be true that "what is good for General Motors is good for the United States of America."


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Talk:U.S. manufacturer General Motors seeks bankruptcy protection

Press release
There may or may not be a press release forthcoming at GM's press release WWW site. That might be worth looking out for. Uncle G (talk) 12:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Ranking
Many sources say third largest. But they appear to be basing this on figures released before the announcement. The figures in early news reports now, at the time of the announcement, appear to be slightly different, and place GM fourth in NGI's table. It would be good for Wikinews to scoop other reports on the correct ranking. Please check the actual assets figures that GM is now giving. Uncle G (talk) 12:32, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The NGI table was updated to list GM in fourth place a few minutes ago, I observe. Uncle G (talk)
 * Please update the article a little more, and include the address President Obama gave to the nation, including how the US taxpayers will be owning 60%, and Canada will be owning 12%, etc. Mike Halterman (talk) 16:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You obviously didn't see that Barack Obama presents rescue plan after GM declaration of bankruptcy has been waiting as a prepared story. I've just realized, from taking notes from the press conference, that I should have prepared a Fritz Henderson story too.  ☺  There's turned out to be a lot more meat in that than in what M. Obama said.  So I've removed that part from this story.  It warrants its own article.  Uncle G (talk) 17:13, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * … which I'm just writing up at Fritz Henderson outlines plan for "New GM" after GM declaration of bankruptcy. Uncle G (talk) 17:19, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Washington Mutual
Washington Mutual was not a bankruptcy, it was an FDIC receivership, after which the company was acquired by JP Morgan Chase. Bankruptcy code did not come into play. Therefore, calling GM the third-largest bankruptcy is correct. --Kitch (talk) 19:46, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The source that I used (as cited in the article) said, and says, that it was a bankruptcy. CNN Money thinks that it was a bankruptcy, too, and also lists this GM bankruptcy in 4th place.  Even the Wikipedia article, Washington Mutual thinks that Washington Mutual was a bankruptcy, and cites Washington Mutual's own press release about its Chapter 11 filing as its source.  So I have to say: What's your source to say that it isn't?  Do you have one?  I've reverted your bold edit.  Please now discuss. Uncle G (talk) 03:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Styling
I am not really keen on the styling of this article ... with all the sub-headers it seems more encyclopedic than news-like in style. --SVTCobra 23:59, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. I think 'Other related bankruptcy filings' should be taken out personally. Not sure on the table for the creditors also. -Meekel (talk) 00:06, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I recommend expanding your idea of what a news article is. Wikinews is no stranger to third-level headings, and we have plenty of articles using them.  Newspaper articles in the rest of the world are no strangers to headings in the middle of articles, too.  Indeed, two of the news articles cited as sources in this very article have such headings.  Look at both of the Bloomberg articles, for instance.  Uncle G (talk)
 * I just looked at all three Bloomberg sources in this article and saw no such organization of information. Am I blind? --SVTCobra 02:47, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Look at the McKee article, for example. See where it says things like "Cuts Already Planned", "‘Bottom-Up’ Collapse", and "Broader Market", that don't make any sense as running text?  Those are the sub-headings.  The fact that they are sub-headings is the reason that they don't make sense as running text.  Do you now find yourself wishing that Bloomberg's style made its sub-headings a little clearer, as ours does, so that these mystery interjections made more sense?  ☺ I agree with what was said above about expanding the subsections, by the way.  There's scope for it.  There were, according to Seib (cited in the article), 50 creditors listed in the filing.  The sources that I had only gave the top three.  If anyone can find a source for the other 47, I'm sure that the creditors section would benefit from some expansion. Uncle G (talk) 03:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Contradiction
The article title is "U.S. manufacturer General Motors declares bankruptcy"

The content says "filed for bankruptcy and Chapter 11 protection"

These are two different states for a business to be in. Which is correct? Guinness2702 (talk) 07:41, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


text: Template:Social bookmarks

title: Template:Social bookmarks


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User talk:Mjroots

Tempodivalse [talk]  13:30, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Your request for "Editor" status
Hi, I'm afraid we had to close your request for "editor" status as unsuccessful, as there wasn't enough consensus to promote. Please don't let this discourage you from contributing to the project in the future, and don't get us wrong, your contributions are much appreciated. If you need any help, don't hesitate to ask me at my talk page. Cheers, Tempodivalse [talk]  02:36, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Czech train derails, at least one dead
Regarding this, the original edit was reverted because your addition came just after a major addition to the article, which was reverted due to archiving guidelines, and was subsequently reverted itself, etc. Your original edit was sort of caught in the middle, and no one remembered to re-add the link later. Yeah...anyhow, said links are encouraged, so don't worry, you've not done anything wrong. Cheers, C628 (talk) 20:59, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mjroots


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User talk:Skoops

Tempodivalse [talk]  14:01, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:Skoops


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User:Faustnh

...

title: User:Faustnh


text: User:Dedalus

title: User:Dedalus


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User talk:Dedalus

Tempodivalse [talk]  15:35, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:Dedalus


text:
CEO of GM outlines plan for "New GM" after auto company declared bankruptcy

June 4, 2009

In a New York press conference at 16:15 UTC, June 1st, Fritz Henderson, the Chief Executive Officer of General Motors, which filed for bankruptcy and Chapter 11 protection from its creditors earlier today, outlined a plan for what he called a "New GM".

Speaking to the press under safe harbor provisions of U.S. law, Henderson described the events of today as a "defining moment" in the history of General Motors. Speaking to the public he said that "The GM that let you down is history," and described a "New GM" that he expected to result from the bankruptcy process.

Henderson stated that he envisioned the bankruptcy process would take between 60 and 90 days. He stressed several times his view that the process would be one that is executed quickly, saying that not just a sense of urgency but "pure unadulterated speed" was his expectation of the process. He emphasized that "GM remains open for business" during the bankruptcy period, continuing to sell and to support its products, and that day one motions had been filed in the bankruptcy court in order to allow this.

Regarding the bankruptcy process he said, "We will do it right. And we will do it once."

He stated that the plan for General Motors had the support of the United Auto Workers union, the Canadian Auto Workers union, the GM VEBA, and a majority of the unsecured bondholders of GM. He also mentioned that GM had already received €1.5 million in bridge financing from the German government.

In response to questions about the possibility of the United States federal government, a majority shareholder in the restructured company, dictating future product development and strategy, such as the sale of more fuel-efficient and green vehicles; he first observed that the federal government had already stated to him that it had "no real interest in running our business" and that he expected that still to be his job. Of the specific hypothetical scenario where the management of GM wants to make one type of car, because it thinks that it is the right thing for the business, and the U.S. government wants to make another type of car, he stated that "I don't think it's going to happen." Expanding on that point he stated that he expected the "New GM" to focus upon "highly fuel-efficient and green technology", and that operating both in accordance with U.S. environmental laws and in response to customer demand would naturally result in the New GM producing the types of vehicles that the U.S. government would encourage.

The "New GM" he also expected to focus on "four core brands", and will size its dealership to match that. He stated that GM would offer a "deferred termination" package to dealers, to allow them to cease dealing in GM vehicles in a managed and gradual way.

He stated that the bankruptcy filings did not cover General Motors' businesses in Latin America, Europe and the Middle East, and Asia and the Pacific. Of GM's profitable ventures in China, specifically, he stated that they were "a critical part of the New GM". In response to questions of whether the New GM would import cars from China to the U.S., he stated the formative company's core principle that "We build where we sell" applied in both directions, with GM building in China to sell in China and building in the U.S. to sell in the U.S., stating that this shortened supply chains.

He declined to predict when the New GM would return to profitability, stating that the goal was rather to lower the break-even EBIT point for the company. He also declined to speculate upon when the U.S. government would sell its stake in the company, saying that that was a question "better addressed to the U.S. Treasury", and merely saying that he expected it to be "years, not months" when the U.S. Treasury felt it would give "the right return for taxpayers."


text:
Talk:CEO of GM outlines plan for "New GM" after auto company declared bankruptcy

Original reporting
I watched the televised broadcast of the press conference live, and took notes. Uncle G (talk) 18:01, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Per WN Policy, could you add as much of those notes as possible. Thanks Calebrw (talk) 20:52, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * They are on paper. I wrote them with a pen.  In handwriting.  When WN policy provides a slot that I can upload a piece of paper through a WWW browser, then I might be able to.  ☺  Uncle G (talk) 02:51, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * As per discussions here, here and here this is not original reporting. --Killing Vector (talk) 14:24, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Uncle G, do you think you could possibly type your handwritten notes into the computer and save them here? OR notes should be extensive. Tempodivalse [talk]  23:13, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Uncle G is "old skool" Wikinews and has largely been absent for two years. G may not be used to our renewed efforts at verifiability in order to get listed on Google News. But nonetheless, notes need to be presented or sent to Scoop. If handwritten they can be scanned. --SVTCobra 23:27, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have always been told, and to this day, that watching a government press conference like NASA, White House, or such, local or not, was like being at the conference itself. I have never had the issue, though I generally have a habit of posting the events as they happen on the talk page of the article. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 02:22, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
 * We knew about original reporting back then, too, kiddo. But it doesn't change the fact that there is no slot on my WWW browser into which I can insert a piece of paper.  You can have a typed transcript of what I wrote down if you really want it, but it will look like gibberish, I warn you now.  After all, the notes were simply aides memoire, given that I started writing as the press conference was tailing off (as one can tell by the timestamp on the first edit). Uncle G (talk) 03:02, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Review
This is so out-of-sequence, not to mention stale. Barack Obama presents rescue plan after GM declaration of bankruptcy happened after this and was published three days ago. --SVTCobra 02:46, 4 June 2009 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Barack Obama presents rescue plan after GM declaration of bankruptcy

Original reporting
I watched the televised broadcast of the speech live, and took notes. Uncle G (talk) 18:10, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Per Wikinews policy, could you post as much of the notes you took here. Thanks, Calebrw (talk) 20:53, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Whether one wants to call it original or broadcast report, I think is irrelevant now that the whole thing is sourced with text of speech as well as a nice hi-res video. --SVTCobra 23:19, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Peer review
How is this not original reporting? His writing this based on a speech given. This is not different if he were actually there. Usually there is a official YouTube video. Can one be found? Calebrw (talk) 20:21, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It's unfortunate that this discussion was had first on IRC, but: it is not original reporting in the same sense that reading a press release or news article and making notes on it is not original reporting. Furthermore, with regard to the companion piece Fritz Henderson outlines plan for "New GM" after GM declaration of bankruptcy, "original reporting" hides the fact that the source is unstated. What television network, which was exercising editorial control, broadcast it? Is there a second source? We can't use a claim of original reporting to cover up lack of sources, it dimishes the quality of our reporting and dilutes our genuine original reporting. --Killing Vector (talk) 22:39, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean now. I agree with what you are saying. I guess I should have been on IRC. ;) Calebrw (talk) 23:54, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * There was no "editorial control". The speech was broadcast live and uninterrupted, from beginning to end.  Nor was there a "broadcast report" by someone else upon which this was based.  This really was me, watching an event, and taking notes, on paper, with a pen; and I'll thank you not to mis-label that as you did. Uncle G (talk) 02:49, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't doubt that you were watching TV and taking notes. The editorial control is exercised by the broadcaster through camera placement & sound design; and then by the television network, which makes the editorial decision whether or not to broadcast the press conference; and of course the content of any prepared notes or opening statements is worked out beforehand. As the broadcast is itself, therefore, inherently an edited news report published by a third-party source, and this article summarizes only the content of edited news reports published by third-party sources, this is not original research. Further discussion on this subject has already been had here and here. I also point out that you still haven't provided your notes or even what network you watched this broadcast on. If you've got handwritten notes, type them up. --Killing Vector (talk) 13:58, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Camera placement does not control one iota what words were said, and it is the words that were uttered that matter here. Your thinking is a nonsense, not least because there were several major news organizations that "attended" the same press conference remotely through video link and (in order to ask questions) telephone.  The only difference between their situation and mine was that I wasn't able to ask a question after the statement, yet you wouldn't challenge their reporting for not being their own work.  You are also pointing to discussions of reporting based upon press releases.  This was a press conference. Uncle G (talk) 02:49, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

"Reluctant shareholders"
This edit took out M. Obama's actual words as a "style improvement". Given that other news sources, from AP through Newsweek to ABC News are not only quoting this phrase verbatim but even using it in their headlines, was removing the actual words of the speech the best course of action here? Uncle G (talk) 03:40, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


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User talk:92.239.12.235

Hi, can you provide a source for your assertion 231 people were on board the plane? Without a source it cannot be used in the article. --128.243.253.112 (talk) 19:03, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, no, sorry, I just saw it on EuroNews, but they changed it back for some reason. I guess it can be left as 228 then --92.239.12.235 (talk) 20:45, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Probably because it was incorrect! :D --128.243.253.111 (talk) 22:06, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Thought so, :) it's strange that they didn't correct themselves clearly --92.239.12.235 (talk) 11:13, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:92.239.12.235


text:
Five dead after arson attack in Iran

June 1, 2009 At least five people have been killed after an arson attack on Monday in Zahedan, a city in southeastern Iran. Tens more people were injured at a local subsidiary of the Mehr Financial and Credit Institute.

The casualties were all reported to have been employees of the subsidiary.

"Security has been restored to the city and we have everything under control," said Ahmad Reza Radan, the Iranian deputy chief of police.

The Mehr News Agency quoted a senior police official as stating that the attack comes from rebels who want to shake Sunni-Shiite relations in the country, in the time before the national presidential elections, which are due on June 12.

The incident comes only five days after an attack on a Shiite mosque in the same city killed 25 and injured 125.

title: Five dead after arson attack in Iran


text:
User talk:216.186.60.201

Thanks for experimenting with Wikinews. Your test worked, and has now been reverted or removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing in articles may disrupt the site's working and will be reverted quickly. Thank you. Tempodivalse [talk]  20:16, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:216.186.60.201


text:
User:Mynameinc

I will update/help however I can. See me at wikipedia:user:mynameinc mynameinc (t|c|wp|wp t) 19:04, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

title: User:Mynameinc


text:
Passengers on Air France Flight 447 sent text messages to family members before plane disappeared

June 1, 2009


text:
Talk:Passengers on Air France Flight 447 sent text messages to family members before plane disappeared

Hoax?
That does not mean it was a hoax: http://www.snea.com.br/noticias/not136.htm It simply says that it may not be possible. No where does it say that it didn't happen. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 14:43, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The notice explicitly denies the claim made by the newspaper, which removes the sole source the cited articles were relying on to run the story. This in turn means the story now completely fails any claim to verifcation. -- Rob.au (talk) 14:49, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * It makes no such claim. This information was raised by a reporter and discarded by the director of the Union, which considers almost impossible that such messages have been sent by conventional phones, except if there was a satellite link....there is nothing here that says it didn't happen. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 14:51, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The denial is emphatic. "SNEA nega informação sobre mensagens de passageiros".  Further, in the translated quote you mention, they explicitly state that they were approached by the reporter, but dimissed the claim.  The newspaper went on to attribute the claim to them, yet they disputed it.  The one source being relied on here has denied they did anything more than dispute the possibility. -- Rob.au (talk) 14:56, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * (ec x2) I'm going to assume that like me, DF doesn't speak Portuguese but please forgive me if I'm wrong. As such, we are both relying on internet translation tools, my tool of choice being Google Translate. As is always the case, the resulting translating clearly isn't 100% accurate but my interpretation of it is that SNEA are denying that their technical director Ronaldo Jenkins has made the claims reported. Would it sound realistic to think the SNEA would publish a statement that their technical director is entirely wrong? I don't think so since that would make his position untenable. Whilst the translation is unclear I would suggest it is much more likely they are saying he didn't make the claims that the newspaper has reported. That is why I tagged it as a hoax and I maintain that it is appropriate based upon the available information.
 * (edit conflict) In response to DF's most recent comment, if we go by that translation and consider Ronaldo Jenkins to be the technical director of SNEA (a quick Google search seems to confirm this), then he himself, despite the paper reporting him as having made the claim, is denying it. Seems pretty conclusive. Adambro (talk) 14:57, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * This is not about what we think they may or may not mean. It clearly states that its almost impossible which does not say its not possible. If we are going to sit here and try and think what they may or may not mean, then we may as well speculate to everything we write about anything. I read the statement several times and in None of the translations does it state that it did not happen, rather that its not likely. If you want to dispute that then write SNEA or find another source. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 15:15, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you speak Portuguese? Adambro (talk) 15:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No I don't, but I do speak and know a bit of Spanish, which is similar. But regardless if I can or not, or you can or not, the clear translation on any translating service states its "almost impossible." It does not say its false whatsoever. If we are going to use this source, then we are to use the correct wording and not make up a few words and place them in there to suit ones thinking. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 15:20, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

You seem to be focussing on the second paragraph and not commenting on the first which according to Google Translate says "Unlike what was disclosed by a Portuguese publication, not part of the technical director of SNEA, Ronaldo Jenkins, the information that the passengers of flight AF 447 Air France have sent messages to the cell when the family noticed problems with the aircraft.". Now I hope you can appreciate this clearly isn't a 100% accurate translation but my interpretation is that it is saying that Ronaldo Jenkins, technical director of SNEA, did not make these comments despite the claims of the newspaper. You've not addressed my point that an organisation making a statement that what its technical director apparently said is almost impossible would make his position untenable and as such would seem unlikely to be the correct interpretation. Adambro (talk) 15:32, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I cannot verify that to be true. The translation is what we have. End of story. I am not going to weasel words that are not there. Its as simple as that. If we can get a better translation or an English source, then by all means. But again, until then it still does not take away the fact that he said 'almost impossible'. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 15:36, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

The first paragraph is better translated as: "Contrary to what was stated in a Portuguese publication, the Director of the SNEA, Ronaldo Jenkins, did not say that cellular messages [SMS] had been sent by passengers on the flight AF447 to members of their families when they suspected [literal translation: perceived] problems with the aeroplane." Physchim62 (talk) 22:31, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Speedy delete
This article should be speedy deleted per the hoax tag and the speedy deletion criteria. The counter argument that since it has been published it should stay perhaps with some kind of retraction statement doesn't hold water. Once we can agree that it seems to be a hoax, which I hope we will soon, there is no benefit to continuing to host the article since even with a disclaimer, it would still be harmful to the credibility of Wikinews since we went ahead and published this dubious story based upon effectively a single, unverified claim in the first place. If we just go ahead and delete it then any future visitors won't end up with a poor impression of Wikinews and anyone visitors who have already seen it and find a dead link will realise we decided to withdraw the story. Adambro (talk) 15:23, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I will no agree its a hoax unless someone can find a source saying it is. I am growing tired of saying the same thing over and over...so read my comments above. It does NOT say its false or untrue. If you want to use weasel words to get around this, then really we have no business writing news. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 15:25, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * You have made your point clear but you should note that I said that "once we can agree that it seems to be a hoax" ... "there is no benefit to continuing to host the article" so I am acknowledging that there isn't agreement on this yet so you don't need to restate your opinion. Adambro (talk) 15:28, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * The Wikinews article relies on two media sources. Both these media sources rely on one source - a member of the SNEA.  The SNEA have come out and stated "SNEA nega informação sobre mensagens de passageiros" - I'd be interested in how you are interpreting this DragonFire1024... but regardless their statement content clearly denies being the source.  They say the newspaper came to them with the theory and they dismissed it.  Suddenly this story collapses in a heap as we now have NO verified source.  That essentially makes it a hoax.  Further the article as it is now is grossly misleading to Wikinews readers as the SNEA statement goes much further than simply saying the messages were improbable.  The SNEA statement is not simply a third source to be weighed up against the other two - it is an official statement which makes it clear that they are not the source the other two articles are relying on.  I won't bother with an edit war to fix the misleading article, as I think it is now fairly clear it satisfies the requirements for speedy deletion. -- Rob.au (talk) 15:34, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Correction notice
I have expanded the correction notice, blanked the article content, and linked to the previous non-disputed version of the story.

Note! Categories, date, and publish have all been left. This is to ensure the title is visible where it would have been previously. People should be able to find this to see the correction notice. --Brian McNeil / talk 10:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)


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User talk:Mynameinc

Tempodivalse [talk]  22:10, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mynameinc


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User talk:210.8.54.105

Hi. Thanks for trying to help us in this edit. However, Wikinews does not use inline citations and tags, so your edit had to be undone. (All the information is fully sourced in the bottom external links section, by the way.) Thanks for your understanding. Cheers, Tempodivalse [talk]  22:38, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:210.8.54.105


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Comments:Passengers on Air France Flight 447 sent text messages to family members before plane disappeared

Comment deleted. I have found confirmation in a Portuguese-language article.

I'm sorry but this sounds very fishy to me. Is it usual to find GSM coverage 30,000 feet over international waters?

Good Cell Reception
Must have powerful cell towers out over the middle of nowhere.

Please note that the first 3 to 4 hours of the flight are along coastline. --SVTCobra 01:43, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Truly a tragedy, hopefully they find the wreckage and survivors.

SMS from a plane
I though it was almost impossible to text from a plane, esp one that is far from mobile phone towers over the Atlantic ocean?

Have to think the messages were sent long before the accident
You have to think that either the SMS messages were sent long before the accident while the plane was still over Brazil or just before take off or that they were much closer to land than they should have been when the accident happened.

I can't believe their cell phones were still working that far out to sea.

SMS over the ocean?
How should people be able to send SMS 1000km into the Atlantic ocean of a normal mobile phone tower can only reach maybe a dozen of kilometres? This news seems to be a hoax!

"I love you" seems kind of a common message to me. Anyone could have sent it to someone even if there was no emergency. The same with "I'm afraid" And I know a bunch of people that has aerophobia, so maybe those SMSs were sent before take off.

why dont you use Submarines??? thhey could be useful

impossible
according to this the airplane was well over 1000km from any body of land at the time of the crash. It is very hard to get cell phone reception in an airplane when it is OVER land, but it is scientifically impossible to get cell phone reception when land is not even theoretically visible.

If the powerful airplane radios and ground radars cannot get any contact to land, these passengers cannot have sent text messages (SMS).

It is possible that before and during takeoff, passengers may have sent these messages, as is normal before any flight.

I cant believe a text message could have been sent just before the disappearance because they would have been hundreds of miles from any cellphone network... Ralph
 * Not all cell phones operate off towers. Has everyone forgotten satellite phones? Not to mention that planes have phones too, which are not connected to a wire trailing behind a plane. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 10:19, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * How many people do you know that have satellite phones? Also if in-flight phones work, one would expect that the far more advance communication equipment the pilots have access to would work as well, but they were never heard from.

WE CAN PRAY FOR THEM TO GOD PROTECT THEM FROM ANY HARM.

More R & D required.
It is a learning experience and planes should be made less prone to natural calamities like lightening / catastropes

Another one of those unexplained plane crashes due to lack of forecast reports or sufficient information about militarily active zones in the area. No one will ever know the reason.

Possible
Emirates has in flight SMS (texting) service, even in Economy - Air France does not have that service as far as I know, however they do have in flight phones in first and business class - http://www.airfrance.us/US/en/common/guidevoyageur/classeetconfort/premiere_confort.htm - which implies at least the possibility of text. That having been said, conventional cell phone usage would have been all but impossible; there were some trials from memory of essentially installing low power cellphone 'towers' in aircraft, and routing though a communications satellite, however I don't recall Air France being on the trial list (on and to the obvious objections to the last comment - cell signals are only a hypothetical danger to aircraft as they run on comparatively VERY high power when there is no station nearby and installing one in the plane would dramatically reduce potential interference from cell signals).

Philo-Sofa

 * Air France seems to test an in flight SMS service since December 2007 and an in flight call service (by personal cell phone) since April 2008. The service is installed by a company called OnAir. Here is a joint press release from the two companies : []. Now one interesting thing, as many press release of December 2007 stated, Air France put the system on only one Airbus A318 for various destinations in Europe. The system was intended to be tested for six months and I couldn't find any press release or informations about the outcome of the test. And last but not least, Air France does not appear anymore as a customer of OnAir ([]). --Fib2004 (talk) 13:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

love you too

Wow —84.82.103.107 (talk) 12:35, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Sending a text message form the sugested location would have been impossable due to the distance from a cell site!


text: Talk:Five dead after arson attack in Iran


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User talk:Ngu.Simon

Tempodivalse [talk]  01:17, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

A quick note
Thanks for your contribution to Bankruptcy for U.S. automaker GM becomes almost certain after bondholder offers fail, unfortunately I had to revert it as Wikinews policy does not allow additions like that after 36 hours. Welcome to Wikinews though. Calebrw (talk) 01:39, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:Ngu.Simon


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Comments:Barack Obama presents rescue plan after GM declaration of bankruptcy

I don't think this is for the best
I believe that as the government begins to slowly pour money into business's and take some control of it we move slowly towards communism. Ngu.Simon (talk) 01:33, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm usually all for government intervention, but not when it comes to bankrupcy, and not when it comes to supporting an industry that is clearly passing its prime, that has nefarious effects on our environment and our culture and that isobvious incapable of supporting itself. Obama should let these guys go down.

The decline of free enterprise
Our politicians are slowly deleting the last vestiges of the principled American institution of free enterprise. Instead of allowing companies to make their fortunes in the market, whatever they may be, we now protect them from the consequences of their own market failure at taxpayer expense. This distorts the market, making the government an active participant, overproducing goods that buyers don't want, and encouraging the commencement of new ventures that the backers know are unsustainable or unstable with the knowledge that the government will protect them from the financial consequences of their bad risk.

In place of capitalism, we now have a policy of "fair weather capitalism, rainy day socialism." In this scheme, when corporations succeed, they get to keep their profits without redistribution, but when they fail, the country as a whole takes on the burden of their failure, spreading it across all of society. It's privatization of profits and socialization of losses. This is not just socialism, but it's certainly not capitalism. What is it? It's the worst-of-both-worlds unprincipled intermediate between the two. 209.30.89.135 (talk) 05:16, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Opinions of Obama's rescue plan for GM
I like Obama's way of thinking. I'm just hoping he sticks to his guns with his promise that the US Federal Government not be exercising it's shareholder rights for the most part. However, he didn't say anything about the other government(s) involved not exercising THEIR shareholder rights... could get interesting. I'm hopeful, but GM may not end up as happy with this rescue plan in the long run as we would hope. GM may be thankful, on the other hand GM may feel resentful of having their hand held by the US Federal Government. There will probably be a mixture of thoughts regarding this decision. What do you think? --Pyrovypr (talk) 14:07, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I think what GM thinks is totally irrelevant and they should be liquidated. A corporation is a vehicle for aggregation of capital to the end of creating profits by the use of that capital while limiting the liability of investors. A corporation with net negative assets has no meaning or purpose, because negative assets are not useful for the creation of profits and their negative returns cannot be distributed to investors. 209.30.89.135 (talk) 09:57, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Just watch these guys cook the books to allow dividend payments while still owing billions to the government. The corporate person has some issues, it's a psychopath. --Brian McNeil / talk 10:19, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Boycott
I will be sure to personally never buy a GM-made car as long as I live. Fephisto (talk) 16:09, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

You got to be kidding
Just let GM die. --Phil1988 (talk) 21:47, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


text:
Search in Atlantic underway for missing Air France passenger jet

June 2, 2009

Aircraft and water vessels from the French, American, and Brazilian military were searching the Atlantic on Monday after an Air France passenger jet with 228 people on board disappeared over the ocean.

Search teams from Brazil mainly focused on the area north of, an island located approximately two hundred miles off the coast of Brazil. France's military, meanwhile, was several hundred miles away, searching the waters near Cape Verde.

Airplanes from Senegal and Spain have also been sent out to help out in the search effort. French officials have also asked for United States satellite data to help with the search.

"We want to try to reach the last point where the aircraft made contact, which is about 1,200km [745 miles] north-east of Natal [located in Brazil]," said Colonel Jorge Amaral, a spokesman for the Brazil air force.

French president Nicolas Sarkozy said he was pessimistic that any survivors would be found.

"This is a catastrophe the likes of which Air France has never seen before. I said the truth to them: the prospects of finding survivors are very low," the president said to reporters at the Charles de Gaulle airport in Paris, France. The has also ordered aircraft to assist in finding the plane.

The had departed from Rio de Janeiro on Sunday night, with a dozen crew members and 216 passengers on board, according to a spokeswoman for Air France. The jet was in a normal cruise at 840 kilometres per hour at about 10,700 metres above sea level when it disappeared, almost four hours after having departed. No problems were apparent when the aircraft made its last radar contact.

Air France said that the aeroplane "crossed through a thunderous zone with strong turbulence" at about 23.00 local time (02.14 GMT). Approximately fourteen minutes later, an automated message was sent saying that the cabin had lost its pressurisation and that the electrical system of the aircraft had failed.

If no survivors are found, then this would be the worst aviation disaster since the November 2001 crash.


text: Talk:Search in Atlantic underway for missing Air France passenger jet


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User talk:210.15.244.102

Please only make constructive edits. Bawolff ☺☻ 02:49, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Note
Please don't make unconstructive edits to Wikinews, as you've done here. This is considered disruptive, and you could be blocked if you do it again. Thank you. Tempodivalse [talk]  02:30, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Please don't vandalize wikinews. If you continue to make non-helpful edits, you will be blocked. Bawolff ☺☻ 01:50, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

You have been temporarily blocked from editing for vandalism of Wikinews. If you wish to make useful contributions, you may do so after the block expires. Bawolff ☺☻ 01:54, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:210.15.244.102


text:
Comments:Five dead after arson attack in Iran

What's going on in Zaheden?
Okay, this is the third crime we've heard about from Zaheden (located in the province of Baluchistan) in the past week. I'm now wondering whether this is kind of thing is normal over there or whether this is the start of something major. Wikinews typically doesn't report on crimes in Iran, let alone from one particular city. 71.96.128.236 (talk) 03:01, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


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MediaWiki:Abusefilter-warning

Warning : This action has been automatically identified as harmful. Unconstructive edits will be quickly reverted, and egregious or repeated unconstructive editing will result in your account or computer being blocked. If you believe this edit to be constructive, you may click Submit again to confirm it. Please [//en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Wikinews:Admin_action_alerts&action=edit&section=new&preloadtitle=abuse+filter+mismathch+for+ send us a note] if you received this message in error. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: $1

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MediaWiki:Tag-poop-description

for poop vandalism

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Comments:Israel rejects US call for freeze on West Bank settlements

This shows that "Old Ben" is really after conquest, not any resolution of conflict and certainly nothing approaching just action. Damn him. 68.210.105.235 (talk) 04:12, 2 June 2009 (UTC)


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Canadian victims of terrorism will be able to sue perpetrators

June 2, 2009

This week new legislation for Canadian courts would enable victims of terrorism to sue anyone who either commits an act of terrorism or funds terrorism acts.

"We will introduce legislation that will give victims of terrorism the power to obtain just compensation from those responsible for their suffering," said Prime Minister of Canada, Stephen Harper. "By amending the State Immunity Act, this bill will allow victims to sue perpetrators and sponsors of terrorist acts, including foreign states, in Canadian courts."

The announcement was made at the Canadian Jewish Congress 90th Anniversary lunch hour. The CJC has been lobbying for such legislation for over a decade. "It's sad to say, the Jewish community is the number one target on most terrorist lists," said Bernie M. Farber chief executive of the CJC.

The Canadian Coalition Against Terror also supports the proposed legislation. "The idea is to cut off the flow of money to terrorist organizations because that's what keeps them going. It's also about exposing them for what they're doing. A lawsuit can do that," said lawyer Aaron Blumenfeld representing C-CAT, "The intention is not just to try to get compensation out of those people who sponsored these attacks, but also to expose them for what they’ve done."

Critics are concerned about Canada's relations with friendly nations if Canadian citizens sue a foreign state, which would allow the Minister of Foreign Affairs to seize assets under the anti-terrorism bill.


text: User talk:Brian McNeil/Archive11

title: User talk:Brian McNeil/Archive11


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Woman survives being run over by a train in suicide attempt

June 2, 2009 A 56-year-old Israeli woman has been hospitalized after attempting to commit suicide by letting a high-speed passenger train run her over on Sunday. Security cameras caught the entire incident on tape.

The video shows the woman walking onto train tracks in the city of Beit Yehoshua as a railroad worker and bystanders watched her lie down. Seconds later, a train ran her over. After the train passed, the woman got up, brushed herself off, walked back to her car and drove away.

Authorities tracked the woman down and took her to a local hospital for treatment. She only suffered minor injuries to her head.

Police say she tried to end her life after losing her job as a travel agent.


text: Talk:Woman survives being run over by a train in suicide attempt


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User:Bennó

w:Szerkesztő:Bennó

title: User:Bennó


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User talk:Bennó

w:Szerkesztővita:Bennó

title: User talk:Bennó


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User talk:Rob.au

Welcome
Cirt (talk) 13:53, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Contributing
I noticed you came out of nowhere, so to speak, about deleting that one article. Is that all you're going to be doing or would you like to contribute to Wikinews further with your own contributions? Mike Halterman (talk) 03:15, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:Rob.au


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Wreckage of plane thought to be missing Air France flight found in Atlantic

June 2, 2009 According to the Brazilian air force, Brazilian military aircraft have found wreckage of an airplane in the, about 650 kilometres off the northern coast of Brazil.

The wreckage is suspected to have come from Air France Flight 447, a passenger jet that went missing over the Atlantic Ocean on June 1.

The debris includes airplane seats and metallic objects. Pilots from TAM, a Brazilian airline had earlier said they saw what they perceived to be a fire in the Atlantic, but French officials say that no sign of wreckage had been found.

Brazilian airplanes with sensors are currently scanning the area of the ocean where the debris was found.

"A TAM airlines plane from Brazil supposedly saw something on fire in the Atlantic Ocean. This was an aeroplane that landed today," said Jose Alencar, the Brazilian vice president.

Air France Flight AF447 was an Airbus A330 carrying 216 passengers and 12 crew members that disappeared after it went into a severe thunderstorm. Authorities are not yet certain what caused the incident, but are pessimistic as to whether any survivors will be found.


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User talk:MelicansMatkin

Tempodivalse [talk]  14:21, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:MelicansMatkin


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User talk:Desimo86

Tempodivalse [talk]  14:22, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:Desimo86


text: Talk:Wreckage of plane thought to be missing Air France flight found in Atlantic


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User talk:Mveric~enwikinews

Tempodivalse [talk]  14:43, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Mveric. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Mveric~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:18, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:34, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mveric~enwikinews


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Comments:Woman survives being run over by a train in suicide attempt

How did this woman possibly survive being ran over by a train, does nabody know? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.207.208.7 (talk • contribs)

 * This is pure speculation, but my guess is that she lay flat on the track, with all of her between the rails, so that the wheels passed either side of her and the rest of the train went above her. I can't believe much of it actually hit her (although something on the underside must have done to account for those minor injuries). Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 19:19, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

 * well, to some extend, it seems amazing & miracle but as far as I guess, she might have lay flat or lay like missionary position on to the ground under train as it running to her but any wheels didnt touch her body from both side & at that time only a train might have come to her from both side & due to some horror she might have injuries.But if she was just edge from leaks of train, train couldnt stop as she tried to get in the box therefor, she got injured when train' s speed gave her blow of air. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 36.252.92.130 (talk • contribs) 08:46, 16 February 2015


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Talk:Canadian victims of terrorism will be able to sue perpetrators

problems
The headline is wrong. The victims are not able to sue. It is not correct to say the victims will be able to sue. What is correct is that if the legislation is actually introduced (which may have taken place by now) and actually passed, then when it takes effect, then the victims will be able to sue. It should be something like "Proposed legislation to permit Canadian victims of terrorism to sue perpetrators. " DGG (talk) 03:14, 17 June 2009 (UTC)