text:
Talk:New photos of Abu Ghraib prison abuse

Protected by Brian | (Talk) | New Zealand Portal 21:32, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Unprotected Brian | (Talk) | New Zealand Portal 21:54, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

POV/NPOV

 * Some of the pictures suggest further abuse such as killing, torture and sexual humiliation...(POV and speculation)
 * Where is the defensive side here? This article, in my opinion, is written in a way that suggests that the U.S. is horrile etc. I am not going to tage this article, but I am really concerned that in its current form, it suggests that the US ONLY tortures prisoners and "kills them" as it was put in the article. Plus there are some grammer issues too. Jason Safoutin 20:29, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * This is a very anti-US article, and as such could by some be considered to qualify for an tag.  I don't think it needs a lot of work to minimise the anti-US angle so I haven't tagged it, but I'd like to see this worked on to make it less sensationalist. --Brian McNeil / talk 21:08, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I added NPOV as I think it is HIGHLY anti US. Jason Safoutin 21:14, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The story is not nice fore u.s, not anti u.s. Come with actionable objections or do not tag International 21:19, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Anti views of any country anywhere are POV. This article suggest a strong Anti US agenda. Jason Safoutin 21:25, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it is news not anticountry. Your are in a pow position here.International 21:28, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I stand at my NPOV. You cannot suggest that the US or ANY country is bad or horrible. This is totally your POV. I am not saying the article CANNOT be published, All i am saying that in its current form, it suggests (and is) a highly anti US agenda. Jason Safoutin 21:30, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I did not tag, someone else did. Yet no effort has been made to address or even seek clarification on the objections that lead up to the tagging.  The article reads like an anti-US hatchet job - the sort of thing I'd expect from Al-Jazeera.  Undue credence has been given to a single source (SBS) which does not even read anywhere as anti-US as the version that has been put together for Wikinews.  --Brian McNeil / talk 21:34, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Brian, this article is not as unplesent as the real world behind it. US patriotism is not an actionable objection. Lock for wrongreportings, unsorcer quotations and real unjustified pow. If you dont find it republish it and lock it if necessary to avoid US-pow editings. read the sources and find an outrage against this kind of behavour from any nations armed forces International 21:48, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * If it puts it in better terms, I believe the main factors of the objection are that it has a tone issue that is highly anti-US, and that some text has not been attributed to its source, of which should be held responsible if this information is found false or incorrect in the future. Please, stop right now, International - you're trying to incite violence, and I will not allow it.  Be kinder on this wiki.  If not, we'll fold.  --MrMiscellanious (talk) – 21:53, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it cant be nice for a patriotic american to read what their armed forces does if this is correct. And what is this about violence? Guess you lost your sense of proportions here. What are you not going to allow. Respectfully, that is plain bull. International 22:24, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

 * No sir, you are plain bull. If you couldn't make that statement without making a jab against a nation, then you do not have the ability to work on a NPOV website.  You are not fit for Wikinews if you continue to make comments like this.  --MrMiscellanious (talk) – 23:30, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

 * My repect for national feelings that lead to killing of innocent people is as low for those with u.s.army flawour as thouse with flawour of bombbelted suicidebombers among civilians. Supporting the killer of innocents is not a good base for journalism. I dont care if they are called terrorists or usarmy. Thous who cant understand that are not fit for wikinews specially if they cencor journalist who expose the murders and torturer. Dream well of another airstrike like some terroristsupporter dream its dreams about more killed people. International 23:59, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

 * That's fine, but as long as you are on this wiki, you are to abandon your personal feelings while working on articles. So, do it.  If you haven't harnessed the importance of NPOV yet, perhaps it is for the better that you are not present.  You absolutely must abide by it.  --MrMiscellanious (talk) – 00:04, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Hmmm.. which is POV... fully reporting crimes committed by US forces, or trying to support US forces by presenting those crimes in a less damning way? Spandex 11:26, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

NPOV is "absolute and non-negotiable" Brian | (Talk) | New Zealand Portal 00:07, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

'''NPOW has nothing to do with USA-patriots easy disturbed feelings when their cowboysoldiers fuck things up. '''International 00:26, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Removal of photograph
I realize that some may want this picture, however I do not think it should be included in the article for two reasons:

 * a) Subject to copyright/unknown status as of yet.
 * b) Is a graphic picture that really does not enhance the article any, and can be seen as offensive to many people.

I do not believe this photograph is in its best place considering the objections above, however I would like discussion on its inclusion/exclusion before taking action. --MrMiscellanious (talk) – 21:02, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Just noticed the photo. I move for removal. There is no need to show this photo as we do not know if it relates to the current news. It also suggests that this is all the US does to any prisoner. Jason Safoutin 21:07, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Foto relates as mr Graner is said to be in the new photos. International 21:16, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, but that doesn't resolve either of my objections. Please offer something relevent.  --MrMiscellanious (talk) – 21:21, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Mrm, what can be more relevant. Prisonerabuse and mr Graner, serving prisontime.
 * I meant relevent to my objections. If you missed them, read about 14 lines up.  --MrMiscellanious (talk) – 21:28, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

169.244.143.115 21:28, 15 February 2006 (UTC) i think they should stay 169.244.143.115 21:28, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

 * a) does not seem to be an issue here as this photo appears to be from the wikipedia article (unless there is a copyright issue there too). About b) I don't think that the fact that the pictures are graphic or offensive is a problem in itself, they should be fine if they enhance the article. Here it seems to me that you have a point, and maybe a detailed verbal description of the new pictures published on the SBS website would be better for the article. If new pictures can be obtained without copyright issues, then presenting one might also be ok, depending on how "bad" they are (sounds like they are a lot worse than the first batch, in which case we might want to refrain from repringing them anyway). --vonbergm 21:30, 15 February 2006 (UTC) (forgot to sign)

 * Not offensive? Its offensive to me. Thanks but I can handle my own concerns. This photo is highly POV and inappropiate. Jason Safoutin 21:31, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * DragonFire, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to learn how to read! I never claimed that the picture is not offensive. --vonbergm 21:35, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I did read I don't think that the fact that the pictures are graphic or offensive is a problem in itself...It is that. I think the whole picture is offensive. We do not know when it was taken or if it relates to this article. It suggests POV in the way that it suggests that ALL soliders do this. Thats what the article suggests too. Jason Safoutin 21:40, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * As I said, if you want to be taken seriously... --vonbergm 21:49, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * This does seem to fall under point #7 of WN:NOT. StrangerInParadise 14:18, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

no more vandalism
If User:DragonFire1024|Jason Safoutin keep taging without actionable objection it is actionable. period.International 21:33, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Reminds me of an article. I'm letting this happen, as it was let happen on the other article.  Perhaps this will teach some users of something.  I've invited DragonFire to share his objections to this page, however, and I think we should allow him time to harness those.  Let's hope it doesn't take three days, like it did on the other article.  --MrMiscellanious (talk) – 21:38, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

 * How low can you sink? Makes it really hard to "assume good faith"... --vonbergm 23:18, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

actionable objections
I will try to make a start: The sentence "Some of the pictures suggest further abuse such as killing, torture and sexual humiliation." should be preceded by "According to Dateline" or something similar. Or someone should go and view the pictures themselves, and give a detailed description of the pictures. --vonbergm 21:40, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Warning
I will block all users involved with this article, if this does not get sorted out soon Brian | (Talk) | New Zealand Portal 21:41, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree this is getting a little out of hand, let me explain where I see a problem with the article. It is written from the perspective of someone who had access to all the evidence SBS had to make their report and thus takes their statements at face value.  I.e. it is too "credulous" of a source that could later on to be found to either have been fed false information or overblown the significance of the information they have. --Brian McNeil / talk 21:45, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * To offer some way out of this, the article needs to better cite who claims what about the current situation. I would have done a copyedit myself but felt it was inappropriate once the article was protected. --Brian McNeil / talk 21:49, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * ok for me to edit in who the sources is and that they claim it. International 21:51, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'll unprotect it for now, but if I see any warning going on......21:53, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Brian, apart from the change already suggested by me above, what else justifies your flag? --vonbergm 21:54, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Me: the flow and tone of this articles is written in a very anti-US bias, and I do find this article to be objectionable because of it. I will work to make the view of this article NEUTRAL but will not allow news to suggest ANTI views of any country or nation. Jason Safoutin 21:57, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Grrr... :-) Edit conflict :-) The BBC has an article on the topic, and yes it is pretty damning.  Our article was a lot closer to passing judgement on one of the parties in the story.  I'm going to do a copyedit on part of this now it is unprotected, and we'll see where we go from there. --Brian McNeil / talk 22:06, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I've made a few changes to the wording. Hopefully this helps with the article. --User:JaymzSpyhunter 9:11am, 16 February 2006
 * I've not read Jaymz's contribution yet, but I've changed the first paragraph to reflect the origin of the story information more clearly. I also put it back to develop as I think there is a need to make the entire thing more objective.  There is a big difference between reporting on someone's analysis of a situation and telling the world that an event confirms your belief-set.  Which, before anyone gets offended, isn't to say I disagree with the analysis.  The conclusion may be dead-on, but it is POV. --Brian McNeil / talk 22:19, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

This article is looking a lot cleaner and less POV, good work to all who contributed in the last 15 mins or so. JaymzSpyhunter 22:27, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

actionable objections (2)
any? --vonbergm 22:35, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I like to have pictures illustrating the crulenes of this subject. Why whitewash it?International 22:39, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The photo is not acceptable as it was. Concerns:

 * The Guardian cites an unnamed US defense official saying that the Army had reviewed the pictures posted by SBS and confirmed that they were amoung those that are subject to the Freedom of Information Act request made by the ACLU. (who? I thought we had to be specific?)
 * Saleh al-Humaidi, a Yemeni journalist, told Reuters "This is truly American ugliness that no other country in the world can compete with... the Americans ought to apologize to mankind for their government's lie to the world that it is fighting for freedom and that it came to Iraq to save it from Saddam Hussein's oppression." (how does the pertain to the story? who is this guy? Is his opinion, as a REPORTER necessary? Jason Safoutin 22:42, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed, maybe cut his opinion in half though. It does relate to the story, so maybe: Saleh al-Humaidi, a Yemeni journalist, told Reuters "This is truly American ugliness that no other country in the world can compete with." JaymzSpyhunter 22:48, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Nope that suggests that no country ever did this and never will...His statement is irrelavant. He is not qualified to say that. He is just a reporter, not an official. Jason Safoutin 22:51, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * JaymzSpyhunter, that sounds good. I agree that the long quote was giving too much emphasis to that point. It would be better to diversify the groups quoted by adding in an amnesty international quote, or an ACLU quote. --vonbergm 22:55, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * No...his quote has no basis. He is not a foreign professional or diplomat. He is a reporter and is UNQUALIFIED to make that JUDGEMENT which is his POV. Jason Safoutin 23:23, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Can we have a photograph? Considering the subject, saves some meaningless searches, especially considering that wikipedia is publishing a non-copyrighted image. Aaron Winborn 23:02, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I sometimes think about how good Wikinews could be...International 00:17, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Maps
I see the map is back, but at that smaller resolution I think we'd be better with a plain Iraq map. The main thing that bugged me was the pointer to where the prison was. I thought it looked tacky. Why not try with the infobox and a small map (sans label) on the left side before the last or 2nd last paragraph? --Brian McNeil / talk 22:54, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Don't scratch
As this has spent time as a disputed article, I would strongly advise that edits from this point on be restricted to spelling and grammar corrections. --Brian McNeil / talk 23:20, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. Jason Safoutin 23:21, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Brianmc, your language is somewhat inappropriate here, especially as the article seems to converge and open issues (like the picture question) are beeing discussed on the talk page. --vonbergm 23:27, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
 * How is my language inappropriate? I've made what I think are good-faith edits to get this article to a point where a consensus to publish could be reached.  That's publish as in "finished".  --Brian McNeil / talk 23:42, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I wouldnt say there is a concensus, issue is very open. When pictures, the new ones if considered not copyviolating, is surfacing it is right to publish them in this article ore a newe on if time runs to far. International 00:14, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I saw two concerns listed as to publishing the photograph. The first, the copyright issue, seems to have been resolved, at least for the photograph published at Wikipedia. The second concern is that it is offensive to some people. That may be the case, yet there have been many offensive photographs published in the last century of a similar nature. The Rodney King beating, the Vietnamese soldier being executed, photographs of victims of WWII concentration camps. I'm not trying to make any connection, I'm just giving examples of horrifying and offensive photographs that have been published, and need to be published to help people understand the nature of these events. I'm not sure what else still needs to happen, but I think that whatever resolution is found needs to involved publishing a representative photograph. Considering the current title of this piece: "New Photos..." To do otherwise makes Wikinews a second-rate operations. Aaron Winborn 00:15, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Consensus on the picture were reached, text was POV and so were the pictures. Jason Safoutin 00:15, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * No consensus is reached, just som loud voices.International 00:32, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Aaron, those evcents happened before Wikinews existed. And on Wikinews we MUST abide by the NPOV policy on all articles we write. Period. Jason Safoutin 00:18, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Good morning all. I'm not sure if this is relavent to the dispute here, because I haven't read all of the talk page, but I've written some thoughts on actionble objections. - Borofkin 00:43, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


text:
Template talk:2006 Turin partial medal count

To any editors that may change this template: DO NOT rank countries by the number of medals they have. The International Olympic Committee raanks countries by the number of gold medals followed by silver and finally bronze. If two countries tie they are listed as the same rank in alphabetical order. Yorktown1776 20:40, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
User talk:Neonxzero~enwikinews

Hello. Please do not blank pages like This one. Blanking pages is against policy. Jason Safoutin 20:42, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

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title: User talk:Neonxzero~enwikinews


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User talk:Hope loneheart

Welcome
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title: User talk:Hope loneheart


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User talk:KillgameX

Welcome
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text:
User:JaymzSpyhunter~enwikinews

Name: Jaymz Stevens

Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA

Interests: Family, Music, Literature, Film, Arts, Socialism.

web site

I read stuff that I like.

Full list of my contributions

My Favourite Quote
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''

title: User:JaymzSpyhunter~enwikinews


text:
User talk:JaymzSpyhunter~enwikinews

Welcome
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Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called JaymzSpyhunter. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name JaymzSpyhunter~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

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text:
Talk:Day 4 Results - Olympic Winter Games

There's something wrong with this page, it doesn't show up well on different skins. Not experienced yet so won't be changing it, but hopefully someone else can come up with the goods. JaymzSpyhunter 22:30, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


text:
Day 5 Results - Olympic Winter Games

February 15, 2006

The following are the medal results for the Fourth day of competition for the Winter Olympic Games in Torino, Italy. Further details of all the Winter Olympics action can be found at Olympic Winter Games 2006 on Wikipedia.

Results are courtesy of NBC, the IOC and are updated as necessary.

{|
 * colspan="3"|

Short Track: Women's 500m

 * G
 * China
 * WANG Meng
 * S
 * Bulgaria
 * RADANOVA Evgenia
 * B
 * Canada
 * LEBLANC-BOUCHER Anouk
 * colspan="3"|
 * Canada
 * LEBLANC-BOUCHER Anouk
 * colspan="3"|
 * colspan="3"|

Freestyle Skiing: Men's Moguls

 * G
 * Australia
 * BEGG-SMITH Dale
 * S
 * Finland
 * RONKAINEN Mikko
 * B
 * United States
 * DAWSON Toby
 * colspan="3"|
 * United States
 * DAWSON Toby
 * colspan="3"|
 * colspan="3"|

Luge: Doubles

 * G
 * Austria
 * LINGER Andreas
 * LINGER Wolfgang
 * S
 * Germany
 * FLORSCHUETZ Andre
 * WUSTLICH Torsten
 * B
 * Italy
 * HASELRIEDER Oswald
 * PLANKENSTEINER Gerhard
 * colspan="3"|
 * HASELRIEDER Oswald
 * PLANKENSTEINER Gerhard
 * colspan="3"|
 * colspan="3"|

Alpine Skiing: Women's Downhill

 * G
 * Austria
 * DORFMEISTER Michaela
 * S
 * Switzerland
 * SCHILD Martina
 * B
 * Sweden
 * PAERSON Anja
 * }
 * Sweden
 * PAERSON Anja
 * }

title: Day 5 Results - Olympic Winter Games


text:
User talk:Lfmundy

Hi, welcome to Wikinews! Thank you for your contributions; I hope you like the place and decide to stay! I see that you've been contributing to articles about Australia. If you're an Aussie, you may want to take a look at the Australian portal, and the Australian discussion page. If you haven't done so already, you may want to create an account.

By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! - Borofkin 01:24, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Lfmundy


text:
User talk:69.210.135.196

Hi, welcome to Wikinews! Thank you for your contributions; I hope you like the place and decide to stay! I see that you've been contributing to articles about Australia. If you're an Aussie, you may want to take a look at the Australian portal, and the Australian discussion page. If you haven't done so already, you may want to create an account.

By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! - Borofkin 01:24, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:69.210.135.196


text:
User talk:69.132.71.191

Welcome
69.132.71.191, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
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 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Style guide - how articles should look before publishing
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
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 * Audio Wikinews could always use more contributors
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Additionally, thanks for experimenting with Wikinews. Your test worked, and has now been reverted or removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing in articles will be reverted quickly. - Borofkin 01:37, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Notice of Temporary Block
You have been blocked temporarily for your actions on the following page: Wikinews needs you!. Your block will be up within 1 day. I suggest you look at our style guide during your inaccessable period to amend your methods of editing Wikinews. If you wish to speak with me directly, contact can be made by my talk page or contact can be made instantly via the IRC chat room.

 --MrMiscellanious (talk) – 01:37, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:69.132.71.191


text:
User:Orioneight~enwikinews

I'm orioneight at the English Wikipedia.

title: User:Orioneight~enwikinews


text:
User talk:Orioneight~enwikinews

Death to red links! — orioneight (talk) 02:06, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Orioneight. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Orioneight~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:20, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:35, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Orioneight~enwikinews


text:
Repeal of ministerial control of RU486 bill passes Australian House of Representatives

February 16, 2006

The Australian House of Representatives have considered the bill regarding whether the Australian Health Minister Tony Abbott, or the Therapeutic Goods Administration (TGA) regulate the abortifacient mifepristone (RU486), and has passed the bill unamended.

Earlier today, the Prime Minister John Howard (Australian Liberal Party, Bennelong) has spoken on the amendments earlier proposed by Jackie Kelly (Liberal, Lindsay) and Andrew Laming (Liberal, Bowman), speaking in favour of the Laming amendments and reiterating his support for Abbott, stating that he is the "best friend that Medicare ever had", Abbott's usual phrase he states in Question Time in support of the Government's handling of Medicare.

Howard's counterpart, the Leader of the Opposition, Kim Beazley (Australian Labor Party, Brand), spoke in support of the bill in its unamended form, noting that it is "simply commonsense that the minister does not have the scientific capacity" to evaluate the drug, and reiterating that the bill is "not really about Tony Abbott". More controversially he however said that those with certain personal views such as Tony Abbott's conservative Catholic faith should not hold certain offices in Government, which drew criticism from the Government later in the debate noting that an earlier Labor Prime Minister of Australia John Curtin's pacificism was a strong wartime leader.

Later, the Kelly amendments were put to the vote and were lost on the voices and in subsequent division with 49 agreeing to the amendments and 96 disagreeing. The vote on whether the bill should be read a second time 95 for to 50 against. In the consideration in detail stage, the Laming amendments were debated, but the vote on these amendments were lost with 56 supporting the amendments and 90 against them.

The bill as unamended was agreed to and passed the third reading on the voices, without having to resort to a vote.

Reactions from Australian bloggers
Larvatus Prodeo (LP) blogger "Kate" welcomed the decision, but warned that the abortion issue was far from settled. "Personally, I think this is not only a good thing for women in Australia, but also demonstrates democratic processes at work. Now we can commence stoushing about whether or not the TGA should allow the drug into the country," she said.

One commenter on LP, Paul Norton, suggested that division over the issue would deepen in the next few years, and that people opposed to legalised abortion would become more vocal. "I expect that the loud minority will become louder over the next couple of years, and more authoritarian and fanatical in their attempts to twist legislators’ and candidates’ arms, until State and Federal election results show that their loudness is directly proportional to their minority status amongst Australians."


text:
Talk:Repeal of ministerial control of RU486 bill passes Australian House of Representatives

Dysprosia 03:05, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


text:
Photo essay: Valentine's Day at the U.S. Viet Nam War Memorial

The Vietnam Veterans Memorial is the most visited monument in the Washington, D.C. at close to 4 million visitors a year. Conceived as a symbol of a never ending reminder of our connection to the veterans of Vietnam, the wall holds strong memories for everyone who visits the wall.

There are nephews like David Quatrone of New Jersey who came to find his Green Beret Uncle Ferdinand Quatrone who served six tours of duty.

There was Alan Earls of Missouri who came to find his Aunt's younger brother who perished during the Tet Offensive.

There was even 11 year old Gema from Miami, Florida who came to see the wall and connect hereself to her schoolwork; "I wanted to see the wall to understand what they were teaching us. I want to write an article about it."

Stephen Birks of Fort Long Beach came to find Larry Rabren who dated his sister when Stephen was just 14.

Each has a story to tell and to remember this Valentine's Day night.


text:
Talk:Photo essay: Valentine's Day at the U.S. Viet Nam War Memorial

Wow, I mean WOW, exceptional work of photography. -Edbrown05 04:16, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Ed, thank you for the kind words. I will note that this was original photography and original reporting.  I spoke with the folks interviewed last night and wanted to at least mention them in the article going with the photos.  Ed, would you be so kind as to take a run at an edit here and publish if you feel its worthy?Drew 04:58, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * yes, pretty. but, sadly image are not on Commons ... I can't use then on fr.wikinews ... ! Jacques Divol 13:35, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Good work but don't forget the Korean War memorial.
 * I will see if I can load them to Commons. The idea from Amgine was to use them as wikinews photos.  I wont forget Korea or WWII.  However, the idea was to honor the visitors, not necessarily the war or the memorial itself.Drew 17:07, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The licnese you choose Is not aceptable by commons. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 01:17, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Gross NPOV violation
A; What is the last sentence "thank you"; is it a quote from a visitor or the pov of the author?

B; Are we ready for a photo essay from an official museum of the Vietnam war in the actual country where the war was fought?War Remnants Museum?....a photo essay like this? . What's going on? Why would we be throwing our NPOV standard right out the window? If we want to honor these men, then do it on our own time and our own blogs. Neutralizer 15:02, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * yes, i see. the power of photo, i don't read the text, well ...
 * "In the darkness, you are moved to say "thank you" outloud and to cry with those who find a familiar name" could be removed. I visited WWII Memorials in Normandy, i understand this kind of feeling viewing the fields of crosses ... i was impressed BUT it's POV (even it's good images) ! War is never beautyfull Jacques Divol 15:17, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * it's not eventfull news, but it's an 'instantané' of life, the report of a simple day for simple people ... it's basic report Jacques Divol 16:42, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I removed the final comment. It was a quote and I couldn't read my notes regarding who said it with any certainty.  The problem with writing in the dark.  The intent of the piece was to report on visitors to the most visited memorial in the District on a day that could be heart rending (and it was) for many of the visitors.  My intent was not to honor the war or the warriors or the country, but to report on some general emotion on an emotional day.Drew 17:02, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The final quote was meant to be ascribed, and got lost in my reporting/typing. My apologies.Drew 23:33, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * The other concept here is to remove the picture of the 3 servicemen as it does not show visitors to the memorial. As much as I like the photo, It may not be appropriate in this context.  As such it is removed and I will post it to commons under CC-BY-ND.Drew 17:07, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I think this article is great. It contrast to the Iraqreporting in an surrealistic way and any description of the U.S. Vietnam War in this context provoce a lot of feelings that in diffrent way make people think about the consequences when going to war of stupid reasons. International 17:24, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * It's not a news event at all, in addition to the pov problem. If someone went to visit the graveyard of Viet Cong soldiers on Valentine's day and took great photos and talked to the visitors would that be "news"? Neutralizer 18:27, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Neutralizer, I see your concerns. But why insist on policy that much to prevent this article from being published. Or have you been so conditioned by your interaction with the "policy dogs" of this cite that your sympathy for a simple recount of memories (as illustrated by international) has been lost? I do suggest however that the phrase "our connection" should be changed to reflect that wikinews has an international audience. --vonbergm 19:19, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought about the "our connection" quite a bit. We do have an International audience and it wasnt just US Citizens who died in the action.   Perhaps it should read "The World's connection."  This may be splitting hairs, but the action touched many, many people around the globe.  I spoke as a world reporter, not necessarily a US one.  Thanks for the commentDrew 23:33, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * The questionable POV quote, which was ascribed to a visitor in compliance with the WN:NPOV policy, has been removed. Are there further actionable POV concerns regarding this article? -  Amgine | talk en.WN 20:12, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Correction: the quote was not ascribed. Good call Neutralizer, I'd missed that. -  Amgine | talk en.WN 20:20, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * little fix that maybe make this NPOV for publishing, What do you think Neutralizer?International 22:37, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

This is a community
So I will go with the group; but please take note of this comment which shows this article could lead to various patriotic expressions which may be not news and certainly not NPOV. Anyone may remove the tag whenever you wish, as far as I'm concerned, but I must admit I am quite startled. Neutralizer 22:45, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * In fact I will remove it myself; thank you all for addressing my concerns which I must accept is a very minority view. Neutralizer 22:48, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I appreciate that comment and in fact noted back to the author that I was not glorifying war or an action. My concern was the emotions evoked on this particular day and in this particular place.  Thank you for all your comments and I will continue to learn by themDrew 23:29, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Layout
Beutiful pictures, but the layout of them doesn't look very nice in firefox 1.5.0.1 on cologne blue skin. (looks fine in IE using monobook. Mostly, the text and third image break incorectly. will try to fix. Bawolff ☺☻ 01:21, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Awesome photos
Awe-inspiring photographs, - I like them 125.236.44.48 02:01, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Beautiful... but why Valentine's day?
I like the idea of adding some creative juice into wikinews with photoessays, and i think the photos are stunning. Although I agree somewhat with neutralizer about NPOV issues... what really gets me is why is it on Valentine's day? Is it usual to mourn the dead in the USA on Valentine's day? If so this needs to be explained for international readers. Anyway, I think it is really beautiful and a good thing for wikinews (though it does open up a whole can of NPOV fish). ~The bellman | Smile 02:23, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I chose Valentine's Day because I noticed that people tend to remember lost loves on the day also and I think that is evidenced by the cards and flowers left at the memorial. I had another picture that I think pushed it over the edge of NPOV, but these pictures are recording people at the most visited monument in DC on a day that has some definite emotions.  At least this was my thought.Drew 02:28, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I think we should recognize that this "article" is as Amgine's first edit summary said "(Init: testing concept)". In the US we have DDay and Memorial Day and a few other days to honor our servicemen and women. Valentine's day is not one of them. I'm sure the same "article" could have been done on Easter or Christmas or Thanksgiving or Mother's Day or Father's Day or Columbus Day or the 4th of July...in fact only Haloween might be a further stretch. The point is, this is a new concept that Amgine brought forward, I guess, as his is the first edit, and most contributors embrace it. Neutralizer 14:42, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

 * And,for the sake of honesty, we should also recognize that were this photo essay/visitor comments about similar events around tombs of Hezballah fighters on one of their holidays; it would have been speedily deleted long ago; at least I think so. Perhaps we should just admit our quite normal and natural pro-western bent(however slight it may be) and stop pretending otherwise? Just an idea. Neutralizer 14:52, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * But you know what? If I was near the Hezballah tombs, I would photograph that story also. To me in shooting this, it was the genuine emotion that the people visiting felt at that time and in that place.  I removed the 3 servicemen photo because it became too much about the war with that picture.  The nursing one is included because of the flowers left at the base of the statue.  I understand why people are feeling the way the do here.  Really I do.  But, I would happily support any story about people feeling strongly about something.  The rally photos where that, the VVM photos where that.  I look for emotion in these types of photos.  I also look for complete stories in the pictures I take.  So please, if someone is in Jerusalem or The Golan or the West Bank, please take photographs.  We seem to want to only report "Eventful" things here and I think, that the news is somewhat more broad than that.  Yes, report on events!  But we can report on how we as a world citizens live also. Drew 15:28, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Drew, your particular mindset is not the point, and I have no objection at all to you having brought forth such wonderful work. I am simply pointing out the systemic bias that I think is quite natural to any media. The only question is whether we accept it,ignore it, or try to overcome it. As of today, the reality is, should such photos come forward expressing the emotions of our government's enemies; you and I and many others here might support their being published; but the reality is; a similar photo essay concerning memorials for Hamas or Hezballah or WW2 Nazis or al-Queda fighters would never be published on today's Wikinews, in my opinion. Neutralizer 18:14, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't disagree with you here. There is of course a natural bias, no matter how hard we try.  You gotta admit though, if a memorial for any of the aforementioned groups was ever made, it would certainly be news...and the people there would certainly be targets of press scutiny. Drew 18:22, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Spanish translation

 * El Memorial de la Guerra de Vietnam es el monumento lo mas visitado de Washington, DC, con cerca 4 millones de visitante por ano. Concebido como simbolo un memorial eterno de nuestra conexion con los veteranos de la guerra de Vietnam, el muro, tiene memorias muy fuertes para cada persona que la visita.

Just beginning the translation. Hopefully others can join in. Perhaps other langages can be added as well. Once the translation is complete, we can add it to Spanish Wikipedia. --198.59.190.201 03:58, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * That would be the spanish wikinews. See WORTNET for cross-language translation coridination. You're also have to check to see if the spanish addition accepts CC-BY-ND photos. Good work Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 22:48, 17 February 2006 (UTC)


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Canadian Idol comes to Ottawa

March 26, 2006

This weekend, March 25 and 26, was a big weekend in the Ottawa area for Canadian Idol want a Be's. Canadian Idol is a national singing competition that is organized by CTV Inc. a Canadian broadcasting communications company for Canadian citizens. The television show, greatly based on "American Idol," has been on going for several seasons. In the past auditions have been know to have line-ups of thousands of people, however, this year after taking a tour around the new location it appears that line ups were manageable. Having the auditions at the St. Laurent Shopping mall makes this easier said Idol's security coordinator Rick Paciorek. Organizers have decided to change the way the auditions will "rock and roll."

Having decided last minute, Saturday evening, to participate in the singing contest I decided to practice "I heard it through the grape vine" and "It's all coming back to me now." Lined up and registered on Sunday at around 10:30 a.m. the whole thing was fairly easy. Compared to previous year’s contestant may show up at any time they wish, in between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and 5:00 p.m.

At 10:30 a.m. Sunday morning there were no real line ups for registration. Security and Canadian Idol greeting staff did however say that Saturday was "crazy (busy) with people lining-up as early as 5:00 a.m."

After receiving my competition number 16350 I tagged it to my shirt and ran back around to wait in line. Compared to my previous experience in Toronto 2003 this was heaven. A few competitors explored the shopping mall during this time. In Toronto 2003 the line up lasted about 18 hours before I got passed the first step.

Anxiety was in the air and to sooth the feeling a lot of people socialized. I talked to the closest person to me, a girl called Bambi that sings regularly at a local pub called the Royal Oaks. She sings every Thursday. Just before heading off to the audition a large pack of competitors just came back from the new Museum of War. As I waited in line I wondered if I should practice my songs. Within no time, we were up! We were called to sing in front of two judges in groups of five. The whole ordeal was over within approximately 2 hours. Actually, by 12:30 I was at home eating lunch and a little disappointed in my last minute decisions.

Also, compared to last year the maximum age limit went up from 26 to 28 years old. Participants may now be between the age of 16 and 28 years old.

There is even a "forum" discussion for those that want advice or comments about Canadian Idol. . The next Canadian Idol Auditions will be held in Halifax April 8 & 9, 2006.

title: Canadian Idol comes to Ottawa


title: File:16February2006.pdf


title: File:16February2006.sxw


text:
Authenticity of new Abu Ghraib photos confirmed

February 16, 2006

The Australian has reported today that the has confirmed the authenticity of the images aired by Australian television network. Contradicting claims made by some media outlets, SBS Dateline's executive producer Mike Carey claimed on Thursday that the program's researchers have found cases of prisoner abuse that have not been dealt with by US authorities. He described the new images available to SBS as a "quantum leap" compared to the previously broadcast pictures.

Carey announced that next week's program will show more abuse pictures, but he noted that some images featuring prisoners in sexually humiliating acts will not be broadcast, as they were deemed too graphic. Next week's program will also include interviews with a US soldier that has been convicted of prisoner abuse and another former soldier who witnessed the crimes.

The Washington Post has noted, as suggested by SBS, that several news outlets including themselves have "not published a substantial number of photographs they are holding." The Washington Post further explains that "Newspapers that have held these images have been constrained, in large part, by the sheer graphic nature of them, especially the nudity."

The Washington Post also cites SBS's ability to circumvent "the U.S. government's efforts to keep Abu Ghraib images out of the public eye" as another reason why the images were not first published by other media outlets.

The U.S. internet news site  has now published some of their own previously held back pictures and confirmed that they possess "files and other electronic documents from an internal Army investigation into the Abu Ghraib prisoner-abuse scandal", which include the originally published pictures, as well as the ones published by SBS.

Salon notes that some of the files from the Criminal Investigation Command refer to CIA agents that interrogated prisoners at Abu Ghraib, but that no CIA officers have been prosecuted "despite the death of at least one Iraqi during a CIA interrogation there", underscoring the claim made by SBS that some of the pictures document previously unprosecuted abuse.

The US government expressed concerns about the new abuse pictures being published. John Bellinger of the State Department told BBC, "We felt that it was an invasion of the privacy of the detainees themselves to have these photographs come out... (and that the publication could also) fan the flames around the world and cause potentially further violence".


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Europe restricts poultry as bird flu spreads to eight European nations

February 16, 2006 Authorities across Europe have issued restrictions on commercial poultry farms, following the outbreak of bird flu in eight previously unaffected nations. The virus has been found in migratory birds much earlier than had been expected.

Tests have confirmed that wild swans in Greece, Bulgaria, Italy, Austria and Germany had died from the deadly H5N1 strain of the virus. Other suspected cases of the virus have been detected in Slovenia, Croatia and Denmark.

European health officials had expected wild birds migrating from Africa to Europe in spring to carry the disease into Western Europe. It is thought that swans were migrating from Russia and Ukraine to the Black Sea driven by unusually cold weather.

Globally, 91 people have died after contracting the virus from close contact with diseased birds, but the greatest concern for European authorities is that an outbreak will occur among domesticated fowl, destroying local poultry industries. The H5N1 strain of bird flu is highly contagious, and lethal to birds. A single outbreak can kill tens of thousands of birds, and all birds must be culled across a wide region to prevent the spread of the disease.

No domesticated poultry or humans are thought to be infected in Western Europe at this time. Authorities continue to conduct intensive checks.

A number of countries across Europe, including Denmark, Sweden and the Netherlands have required that domesticated fowl be kept indoors. In Germany and Hungary, two mile protection zones have been placed around the locations where dead swans, with all poultry required to be kept indoors and the shipping of meat outside the zones prohibited.

The European Union has toughened its bans on poultry products and now bans the importation of untreated bird feathers into its 25 member nations. The EU also hopes to test 60,000 wild birds and 300,0000 domestic birds as part of its bird flu surveillance program.

In France, the government asked citizens to keep domesticated fowl indoors throughout the country. Domesticated ducks will be vaccinated.


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France says Iran's nuclear program is a "military cover"

February 16, 2006

Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy of France went on French TV and accused Iran of having a "clandestine" nuclear program saying, "no civilian nuclear program can explain the Iranian nuclear program. So it is a clandestine Iranian military nuclear program. The international community has sent a very firm message by saying to the Iranians: 'Come back to reason. Suspend all nuclear activity and the enrichment of uranium and the conversion of uranium', but they are not listening to us. That is the reason why, for the first time for days, the international community is united. It's not just the Europeans -- France, Germany and the British, it's also Russia and China."

However, on a French radio station the Iranian chief nuclear negotiator Ali Larijani said, "contrary to all the propaganda against us, we are not seeking a nuclear bomb, since we are a signatory to (the nuclear) . We are a responsible country - it is Western propaganda that keeps on saying that Iran is seeking a bomb, but it is not true. We want to be in this camp of countries that have nuclear energy technology but no nuclear weapons, such as Brazil and Japan"

China has expressed concern. Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang has said that Beijing wants a "peaceful solution by diplomatic means."

Iran resumed small-scale on Tuesday, after the IAEA reported it to the UN Security Council. Iran had stopped the enrichment process nearly 2 1/2 years ago.

"Now it's up to the Security Council to say what it will do, what means it will use to stop, to manage, to halt this terrible crisis of nuclear proliferation caused by Iran," added Douste-Blazy. During discussion of the crisis of nuclear proliferation less than one year earlier, in the month-long 2005 Review Conference of the Parties to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, several representatives of non-aligned states complained about the violation of Article VI of the NPT by the official nuclear weapons states, including France, who allegedly have not yet made significant moves towards nuclear disarmament as required under Article VI, and about nuclear proliferation to previously non-nuclear weapons states, such as Germany, under  arrangements.


text:
User talk:Sbi

Welcome
Sbi, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Jacques Divol 10:03, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
 * Writing an article - how to write and publish a complete article
 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Style guide - how articles should look before publishing
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
 * The front page lead articles often need updating
 * Developing stories need finishing and publishing
 * Discussions need your input
 * Audio Wikinews could always use more contributors
 * And of course, stories need writing!

title: User talk:Sbi


text:
Talk:France says Iran's nuclear program is a "military cover"

Any more sources for this would be great, CNN and the Finnish media haven't caught on yet or don't consider this important. The stuff I put in might be too verbatim, please revise... VMajander 10:38, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Misleading
I cannot find the quote by the Ali guy. looking at sources, now but until then, Its incorrect. Jason Safoutin 11:23, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I have found the quote on CNN: * Omer Farooq

NPOV
Article is pretty good; I just removed the very last sentence which was POV and redundent. Neutralizer 14:22, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * No its not as its backed up by SEVERAL of the listed sources. The statement is NOT POV. Give me one reason why it is POV and I won't revert. All objections are to be cited CLEARLY. You have NOT done so. Jason Safoutin 14:24, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't see the POVity of it either, so I reverted. Jon Harald Søby 14:27, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

The sentence was POV if not balanced by statements by people from poor countries. i've added these. Boud 21:31, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


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Tokelau voters reject self-rule

February 16, 2006

The people of Tokelau have rejected greater independence from New Zealand in a referendum held this week. 60% of the eligible voters voted "yes" to become an independent state in free association with New Zealand, but this failed to reach the two thirds support required to take effect. The turnout for the referendum was high, reaching almost 95% of registered voters.

Tokelau, a 12 square-kilometre archipelago with a population of 1,500, consists of three islands that do not have roads, an airport or a capital. It is a dependent territory of New Zealand, but New Zealand's Prime Minister said Tokelau is already "exercising virtually all the responsibilities of a self governing country". According to the UN and New Zealand, Tokelau would have relied heavily on New Zealand for financial assistance even if independence had been chosen.

title: Tokelau voters reject self-rule


text:
Talk:Kuwait donates US$500 million to Katrina relief efforts

for some reason it wont let me edit this page, so here is the correction.

Kuwait's donation was followed by a $100 million donation from Qatar, a small, U.S. friendly peninsula jutting out into the Red Sea.

I believe you mean the persian gulf here instead of red sea.

Houssambhai 12:29, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


text:
User talk:86.138.199.12

First off, we really appreciate your contribution.

But sometimes users submit an article from somewhere else, not realizing that Wikinews cannot keep copy-n-paste versions of articles which are published under a restrictive copyright. A copy and paste like that is a copyright violation, and Wikinews policy is to erase those even if they are excellent article ideas.

Another problem which sometimes comes up is press releases. Press releases are sometimes excellent sources, but they do not qualify as unbiased news articles so they can't be published as they are. Two key things to remember about press releases is that they're usually written to represent the viewpoint of an involved party (Thus likely running foul of our Neutral Point of View policy). And second, they are generally covered by copyright which can conflict with our open editing approach.

A better way to get an article on an exciting subject published here is to write an original article following the guidelines described in writing an article, or to write a brief explanation of the subject and include the url address of articles or websites to use as sources.

Thanks again! --Deprifry|+T+ 13:13, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:86.138.199.12


text:
Talk:Man shot by US Vice President suffers mild heart attack

The statement about Cheney being drunk is not serious, if you actually read the damn blog you can see it's pure speculation, and seriously, you can dig any kind of weird stuff by linking to any kind of blog out there. Could we please refrain from using those? 83.88.250.66 16:30, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


text:
User talk:Krun

Welcome
Krun, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Jacques Divol 16:31, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
 * Writing an article - how to write and publish a complete article
 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Style guide - how articles should look before publishing
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
 * The front page lead articles often need updating
 * Developing stories need finishing and publishing
 * Discussions need your input
 * Audio Wikinews could always use more contributors
 * And of course, stories need writing!

title: User talk:Krun


text:
User talk:Aquacchia

Welcome
Aquacchia, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! Jacques Divol 16:32, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
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title: User talk:Aquacchia


text:
Thaksin escapes Constitutional Court scrutiny

February 16, 2006

In a move that has been greeted with dismay by some groups, Thailand's Constitutional Court has rejected a petition submitted by 28 of the country's senators. The petition levelled allegations against the Prime Minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, of having maintained influence over Shin Corporation and been involved in the decision to sell the family's remaining stake in the company to Temasek Holdings, the investment arm of the Singapore Government.

The court's decision to reject the petition seeking impeachment was reached following an 8-6 vote. The submitting senators were said not to have provided evidence documenting Thaksin's interest in Shin Corp. or how he was involved in the sale. This is despite a former judge from the Constitutional Court endorsing an opinion shared by some senators and academics that the court was bound by law and precedent to review the allegations.

The president of the Federation for Democracy, Weng Tojitrakarn expressed disappointment at the court's decision not to review the petition, stating that "It's the duty of the court to seek evidences". He pledged that his group would press for the resignation of the eight judges who supported the Prime Minister. According to Weng an interview with the Prime Minister's son, Panthongtae Shinawatra, reveals Thaksin's involvement in the sale. Panthongtae is said to have claimed the sale was a matter for "puyai", which Weng interprets as meaning Thaksin.

This is not the first time that Thailand's beleaguered PM has faced judgement from the court, nor may it be the last. In 2001 the court acquitted Thaksin by an even closer 8-7 vote. The charge in that case was concealment of assets. A new petition being organised by students of Thammasat University calling for impeachment has reportedly reached 20,000 of the 50,000 required signatures.

Further controversy over the PM's family's involvement in Shin Corp. was revealed in a Thai News Agency report. According to the Secretary-General of the country's Securities and Exchange Commission the PM's son and daughter may face fines for failure to report their shareholding in Shin. Other issues relating to Shin Corp. are also under investigation by the SEC with collection of evidence and documentation expected to be complete within a week.


text:
Baltimore Ravens' Deion Sanders announces retirement

February 16, 2006

On February 13, Baltimore Ravens cornerback Deion Sanders announced his re-retirement from the NFL. Last January, many assumed Sanders would be leaving the league after spending 14 years in it.

Sanders won back-to-back Super Bowls with the San Francisco 49ers and Dallas Cowboys. Sanders is the first professional athlete to win a World Series and Super Bowl in his pro career. The All-Pro Cornerback had 53 interceptions, was selected to the Pro Bowl eight times and was once Defensive Player of the Year.

Reports speculate Sanders, who broadcast with CBS after his first retirement, may go back into news broadcasting, possibly on the [w:Fox Broadcasting Company|Fox]] NFL Pre-Game Show.

After his retirement, current Ravens Cornerback Chris McAlister stated, "I'll miss Deion, just as the rest of the Ravens organization will. I learned a lot from him."


text:
User talk:199.176.176.99

Welcome
199.176.176.99, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
 * Writing an article - how to write and publish a complete article
 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Style guide - how articles should look before publishing
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
 * The front page lead articles often need updating
 * Developing stories need finishing and publishing
 * Discussions need your input
 * Audio Wikinews could always use more contributors
 * And of course, stories need writing!

Additionally, thanks for experimenting with Wikinews. Your test worked, and has now been reverted or removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing in articles will be reverted quickly. --Chiacomo (talk) 17:22, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:199.176.176.99


text:
Olympic biathlon silver medal stripped due to doping

February 16, 2006 The International Olympic Committee (IOC) announced that Olga Pyleva, Russian Federation, has been excluded from the  after failing an anti-doping test carried out by the IOC. This is the first instance of an athlete being ejected from the 2006 Winter Olympics. Pyleva, 30, tested positive for, a prohibited substance, on February 13 after the , in which she won the silver medal.

ITAR-TASS News Agency reports that Pyleva tested positive for cordedon, a stimulant banned by the (WADA). The substitute, phenotropil, was prescribed by her doctors following an ankle injury according to Nikolai Durmanov, head of the Russian Anti Doping Committee. The IOC determined that Pyleva would be disqualified from the 15km Women’s Individual Biathalon, would be excluded from the remainder of the XX Olympic Winter Games and would have her Olympic accreditation immediately withdrawn.

The IOC routinely performs pre and post event tests for a broad array of illegal substances. For each individual sport, the top five finishers plus two random finishers are tested. So far the IOC has conducted 400 of the expected 1,200 tests to be done at these games.

Under IOC rules, Olympians that test positive for a banned substance are considered guilty regardless of circumstances.

Martina Glagon of Germany, who finished with a Bronze medal, will be awarded the Silver. Albina Akhatova, Pyleva's Russian teammate will get the Bronze.


text:
UN calls for Guantanamo shutdown

February 16, 2006 In a 40-page report released today, the United Nations special envoys on torture reported their findings regarding the United States detention facility at Guantanamo Bay on the island of Cuba. The report concludes that certain procedures practised at the facility, and during transport to it, constitute torture. Moreover the report states that "attempts by the United States Administration to redefine 'torture' in the framework of the struggle against terrorism, in order to allow certain interrogation techniques that would not be permitted under the internationally accepted definition of torture, are of utmost concern." The report goes on to state that "the interrogation techniques authorized by the Department of Defense, particularly if used simultaneously, amount to degrading treatment in violation of article 7 of ICCPR and article 16 of the Convention against Torture."

The report recommends that the United States bring the detainees to trial "in accordance with criminal procedure" or "release them without further delay", and that "The United States Government should close the Guantánamo Bay detention facilities without further delay." To avoid further practices amounting to "torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, discrimination on the basis of religion, and violations of the rights to health and freedom of religion" the report recommends that "In particular, all special interrogation techniques authorized by the Department of Defense should immediately be revoked."

In response to the report, White House spokesperson Scott McClellan said that the facility housed "dangerous terrorists". US officials have dismissed most of the claims as "largely without merit" and pointed out that the authors of the report never visited Guantanamo Bay, despite an invitation issued to three of the five investigators in November.

In an interview with the German weekly newspaper Die Zeit the United Nation's Special Rapporteur on torture and coauthor of the report Manfred Nowak said that it was the "sole responsibility of the United States that we could not visit Guantanamo". He adds that the United States explicitly barred the UN inspectors from talking to detainees, without which proper investigations are impossible. He pointed out that the need for interviews with prisoners, in order for considering investigations to be comprehensive, "is also the position of the United States when it concerns other countries, like China".

title: UN calls for Guantanamo shutdown


text:
Talk:UN calls for Guantanamo shutdown

foreign language quote
For easier verification, here is the German original of the quote used:

ZEIT online: Die US-Regierung wirft Ihnen nun Einseitigkeit vor. Sie hätten das Lager ja gar nicht besucht und nur Beweise vom „Hörensagen“ verwendet.

Manfred Nowak: Es ist die alleinige Verantwortung der USA, dass wir nicht nach Guantánamo konnten. Die US-Regierung hatte uns in ihrer Einladung ausdrücklich verboten, mit Häftlingen zu sprechen. Doch ohne Häftlingsinterviews ist eine umfassende Inspektion nicht möglich. Das ist auch die Position der USA, wenn es um andere Länder, etwa China, geht. Uns nun vorzuwerfen, wir hätten nicht mit Häftlingen gesprochen, geht also wirklich zu weit! Solche Argumente war ich von demokratischen Regierungen nicht gewöhnt. Im Übrigen haben wir vor allem einen rechtlichen Bericht erstellt. Die Fakten, die unserem Report zugrunde liegen, sind ja nicht umstritten. Viele Anordnungen, die wir analysiert haben, kamen ja von US-Verteidigungsminister Donald Rumsfeld selbst. Und vieles haben wir aus öffentlich zugänglichen Dokumenten.

--vonbergm 18:29, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

position of US or of UN? last line

 * He pointed out that this "is also the position of the United States when it concerns other countries, like China".

Shouldn't this be the following?
 *  He pointed out that this "is also the position of the United Nations when it concerns other countries, like China".

i'll try looking in the sources, but someone who has already read them might find this first... Boud 21:31, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * As mentioned inline, that's a quote from the Zeit interview with Nowak. It's a translation of the line Das ist auch die Position der USA, wenn es um andere Länder, etwa China, geht that you see right on this page. --Deprifry|+T+ 21:38, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

OK, thanks - but it's still a bit confusing regarding what is this, anyway here's what i've understood and done (our edits crossed on the talk page):
 * Das ist auch die Position der USA, wenn es um andere Länder, etwa China, geht.

Some of the babelfish translation including some of the context is:
 * It is the exclusive responsibility of the USA that we could not after Guantánamo. The US government had expressly forbidden us in its invitation speaking with prisoners. But without prisoner interviews a comprehensive inspection is not possible. That is also the position of the USA, if it concerns to China other countries, about. Us now to accuse, we with prisoners would have spoken, does not go thus really too far!

i think this is clearer - the position of the USA, concerning China etc, is that "without prisoner interviews a comprehensive inspection is not possible". i've put:
 * He pointed out that the need for interviews with prisoners, in order for considering investigations to be comprehensive, "is also the position of the United States when it concerns other countries, like China".

Boud 21:45, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Remotely related hint: Don't use Babelfish (or Google, they use the same engine) for translations from German to English. It, well, sucks. Try Im Translator, their sentences usually make a lot more sense. --Deprifry|+T+ 21:53, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * But the part you inserted into the article is correct. --Deprifry|+T+ 22:33, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks Boud, that makes it clearer. --vonbergm 22:47, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Sick and Tired of the Hypocrisy
Isn't there some way to report the elephant in the room? The fact that the USA has consistently crippled and killed civilians during wartime for the past 200 years? That American elite were the primary financiers of Hitler's rise to power; and the US government of Saddam's regime; and Osama's rise to power; and the Saudi monarchy's promotion of Islamic extremism? That the USA is the only country to use atomic weapons on human beings? That the USA has more WMDs than the rest of the world combined??? Is there no way to drive home the point that Guantanamo is the Father raping the kids and that by letting it continue the rest of us are the timid little wife closing the door to the bedroom????? Neutralizer 22:25, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I only want to respond to what is actually directly related to this article. I don't believe that wikinews is the forum to "drive home points", but consistent and solid reporting might raise awareness. In fact, now that Britain has more or less officially joined the chorus of the nations asking openly for the closure of Guantanamo might be fertile gound for a new article to focus on the international response to the report. --vonbergm 22:45, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes unfourtanatly it isn't :( . I still personally want comments though. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 22:55, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Issue with Title
I don't think the title matches the point of the UN's report. I believe the main idea of the UN report is that the US should shut down Gitmo. The report lists several reasons, including of course the allegations of torture. But even if the US was giving the detainees punch and pie and reading them bedtime stories, the fact that they are being detained without charges or access to counsel is just as important as the issue of torture.

Also, the US is not disputing that it is detaining people without charges or counsel. Rather, the US is saying that it is legal to do so. On the other hand, the US disputes the allegation of torture. If the article alleges torture, the resulting public conversation revolves around two worthless topics: 1) the semantics of what constitutes 'torture'; and 2) the fallacy of 'terrorists deserve to be tortured.'

It makes more sense to me to frame the article by making the title reflect the central thesis of the report: "UN calls for US to shut down Guantanamo facility" or something similar. And then the article can summarize the UN's stated reasons.

Besides, the allegations of torture aren't really NEWS. Everybody and their grandmother has been alleging that the US is torturing people at Gitmo. Up until now, nobody has really framed the argument as,"Shut the place down!" That's what I think is newsworthy about the report.

Thoughts anyone?

 * I am quite agreed with this. The question of right to be trailed is of outmost importance, and should not disapear. Rama 12:52, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree too. The title is way off. Neutralizer 14:50, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Good catch, you are right on target. I prefer shorter titles like "UN calls for Guantanamo shutdown", but anything like this should be good. So be bold and change the title! --vonbergm 18:46, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:UN calls for Guantanamo shutdown


text:
Switzerland: charges dropped in the Aubonne bridge affair

The prosecutor did not withhold complains for "simple" and "severe" physical harm by negligence against gendarmes Poget and Deiss in the trial of the Aubonne Bridge affair. Verdict will be given of Friday in the morning.

Facts
On the 1st of June 2003, during the G8, a 19-person group of altermondialist militants held an illegal barricade, without notice, on the highway bridge which crosses the Aubonne river.

A rope was put across the road: at one end, 20 metres above the river, militant Martin Shaw had tied himself; the rope would get up to the bridge, loop around the barrier, bar the road, loop again at the other barrier, and get down to its other end, with militant Gesine Wenzel.

The rope was protected by two barrages of militantes and by posters reading "Do not shoot", and "Stop here or you will kill two people" (photo ). Neither Wenzel not Shaw had any form of security system and the rope was not tied to the barriers; thus, the lives of the two militants depended on the integrity of the rope barring the road. Both activists were invisible from the road, unless looking over the barrier.

A dozen minutes afterward, the police arrived and tried to free the way for the 200 cars stalled by the blockade. The policemen saw the militants hanging at the end of the rope, and thus tried to have the cars drive below the rope by lifting it. Then, 25-year old gendarme Deiss, from Schaffouse, moved in and cut the rope with his knife. Gesine Wenzel was saved in extremis and pulled onto the bridge, shocked. Martin Shaw fell 20 metres into the shallow river, suffering severe injuries to his spine and several fractures; he had to spent one full month in hospital to recover, and still suffers from his wounds.

Deiss did not speak any French (the indident took place in the French-speaking part of Switzerland) and was unaware of the presence of the militants; sergeant Poget was responsible for the intervention of the police. The plaintifs requested that Poget and Deiss be convicted for simple (for Wenzel) and severe (for Shaw) injuries by negligence.

Plaintifs
The plaintifs argued that the policemen had not tried to discuss with the activists and were not properly coordinated.

The clause of "rupture of causality links", which describes cases where things cannot be predicted, does not apply here because once the situation was assessed, it was the duty of the policemen to warn their colleagues.

Maître Garbade, lawyer of the plaintifs, also underlined the risks of being softer with the police and of the feeling of impunity which could follow. Since policement are typically confronted to delinquents, he said, their errors bring to context the offences committed by their victims, which tends to induce clemency for them (in this matter, the activists were trialed and convicted for blocking traffic circulation).

He also mentionned the difficulty of the investigation; the police was tempted to negate that a policeman had cut the rope, refused to aknowledge some testimonies, and gave immediate psychological support to Deiss, which was not done for the victims. "I do not believe that this trial would have taken place if it was not for the two video recordings", he said.

Maître Garbade went on saying that it was common sense to check the end of a rope before cutting it and requested that Poget and Deiss be convicted for simple (for Wenzel) and severe (for Shaw) injuries by negligence.

Prosecutor
M. Stoll, first substitute to the procuror, warned against the "myth of police impunity" and argued that he had recently requested and obtained conviction of two policemen. "Then are no preferences within the prosecution," he said.

The prosecution went on arguing that the "rupture of causality links" did in fact apply, since the time between Poget realising the situation and Deiss cutting the rope was very brief (one minute). Absence of dialogue between the policemen and the militants was understandable because the protest was unexpected, illegal and dangerous (the activists had blocked the highway without adequate signs warning the motorists).

The confused messages of the posters were also alluded to "Do not shoot" and "Stop here or you will kill two people", while a simple drawing of two people hanging from a bridge would have make the situation instantaneously clear for everybody; such drawings are featured on the web site of the activists.

The prosecution conclued saying that the "most probable cause" of the accident was the protest itself, and dropped the charges.


text:
Hotel development proposal could displace Buffalo, NY business owners

Savarino Construction Services Corp. has proposed a $7 million hotel project at the Forest and Elmwood Avenue intersection, according to . The proposal calls for a 5-story, 45,000 square-foot 80-room hotel with underground parking for at least 50 vehicles, and 4,500 square-feet of retail space on the lower level.

Hans Mobius, the owner of the five properties to be purchased in the plan (1109 to 1121 Elmwood), reportedly signed a contract with Savarino to assemble the development.

"We saw a huge opportunity to bring something to the Elmwood Village that will make sense and bring a service that's currently not available," said Eva Hassett, vice president of Savarino. "Elmwood is such a wonderful place to eat, shop, walk and spend time. We believe this project will add to that vibrant environment."

Some business owners in the area see it differently. Wikinews interviewed 2 of the 4 owners whose business's would be demolished if the development goes through.

Nancy Pollina, of Don Apparel at 1119 Elmwood, who found out about the development only yesterday, said she is "utterly" against the proposal. Her apparel shop has stood at the same location for nearly 14 years. She has volunteered in the community, and helped create several gardens around bus shelters in the city, and served on Forever Elmwood Board for six years as head of Beautification. Patty Morris co-owns Don Apparel with Pollina.

"To say this is a good looking project, I want to say the emperor has no clothes. This [project] does not take into consideration the needs of the college students. I have been told by college students, these shops here, are the reason they leave the campus," said Mrs. Pollina.

is 500-feet from the intersection.

Michael Faust, the owner of Mondo Video said, "Well, I do not really want to get kicked out of here. The landlord was very open, and the deal he made with me when I moved in here was 'the rent is cheap and I [the landlord] will not fix anything and that will not change.'" Faust said he first learned of the development plan, "about 48 hours ago. I found out on Tuesday when the Buffalo News called and asked for my opinion on this." Faust has not said if he will make plans to relocate. "We have to see if this [house] is going to get knocked down first," said Faust.

An "informational" meeting, where citizens can voice opinions and learn about the proposal, will be held on Tuesday February 21, 2006 at 5:00pm (eastern), at the Burchfield-Penney Art Center Gallery at Buffalo State College, Rockwell Hall.

Executive director of Forever Elmwood Corporation, Justin P. Azzarella would not comment on whether or not the organization supports the development, saying, "you will just have to come to the meeting."

Forever Elmwood Corp. is designed to preserve and protect the unique and historic nature of Elmwood Avenue and its surrounding neighborhoods and encourage neighborhood commercial revitalization. The organization was founded in 1994.

Same area was up for previous developments
Nearly two years ago, the Forever Elmwood Corp. assisted in the blocking of the demolition of the Edward Atwater house at 1089 Elmwood next to Pano's Restaurant which is at 1081 Elmwood. Owner Pano Georgiadis wanted to expand his restaurant onto the property where the house now stands, but the Common Council denied his permit to demolish saying the house is a historical landmark and needs to be protected. Georgiadis, who has a bleeding ulcer, said that all the court cases landed him in the hospital. "I got a bleeding ulcer, and since then, I don't care about this house anymore, or this city. I just go to work every day. I think [preservationists] are parasites," said Georgiadis.

Georgiadis will not be attending Tuesday's meeting saying, "I will be out of town."

In 1995 Hans Mobius proposed a plan to develop a Walgreens, that was to be placed in the same location, but residents and business owners shot down the proposal. Walgreens eventually withdrew its request for a variance after pressure from the community.


text:
Talk:Hotel development proposal could displace Buffalo, NY business owners

Original
I have some quotes from various business owners on voice record. I hgave to listen to them as its about a 20 minute interview of the owners. I will add them as I listen to them all. Also I am currently awaiting to speak with other organizations aka Forever Elmwood Association, and Greaterbuffalo.org (i think thats the site). i have to visit these places personally so please give me time. I imagine that not too long from now Imminent Domain is going to play a role in this as my home is also affected. I am continuing reporting. Be patient. Jason Safoutin 19:32, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok. I have more recorded interviews than I thought. Its going to take sometime to go through all of it and quote specifically a little more. Until then, I will add new quotes to a new article. I am also going to attend the meeting mentioned in the article and will be taking notes and recording that also. I will also get as many pictures as I can as well. I am planning on interviewing Skunk tail owner and the HOD tattoo owner. I did not speak to him so I will do that tomorrow If I have time. I will obtain the documents I mentoned when I have them. They are public record but they ran otu at the library. Jason Safoutin 02:02, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * This is TOTALL POV so thats why its on the talk page. Stop the Elmwood Village Hotel development petition. If you are reading this and live in the area please sign it :) Jason Safoutin 04:53, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Mondo Video
Isn't that anonymous source quote by Faust a bit, over the top? -Edbrown05 06:16, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Like hear-say, who cares. -Edbrown05 06:18, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * No because I know the name of the source and he wishes that I do not reveal the name and such. Jason Safoutin 06:19, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Then perhaps, Faust believes... and no quotes. -Edbrown05
 * it is quoted. I have it on tape. Jason Safoutin 06:28, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * okay, but it's rumor. -Edbrown05 06:36, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

 *  We *do* have ethics here... We are obligated to respect the request for anonymity of sources. But we also need to realize this strongly reduces their value for quoting in the article. It's a judgement call. -  Amgine | talk en.WN 06:37, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * yes, where is this walk going to lead? :) Edbrown05 06:41, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh. Over to the cabinet where I have some sippable beverages to put me to sleep. -  Amgine | talk en.WN 06:42, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Ok you got me :) Although I know the souce and the name, I will agree to remove te quote. But, I will add some others in its place. Please comment here if they are not appropriate. Jason Safoutin 06:44, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I removed the quote completely and added nothing more. i moved a little around to fit with the flow. Other than that, thanks for poining that out Edbrown05 :) Jason Safoutin 07:04, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I'll never forget my Dad refering to the 'historical' society as the 'histerical' society. Couldn't resist noting that. -Edbrown05 07:10, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Newsworthy ?
Can anybody tell me what make this story newswotrhy outside Buffalo, NY. I tag it notnews if it dont get a mayor edit or very good explanation. International 14:56, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

 * There's nothing wrong with local stories. We do not only want but in fact encourage them.--Eloquence 16:17, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I remember that I read something about new interpretation of the law that make it possible to overrun individuals and buisnesses fore some reason. Think there is a political quarrel on high level. As that whould change some u.s. values and stuff that as example my make this story an interesting article if not for the world atleast for the u.s. readers. As it is now its to local even if it is original.International 16:23, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * International, the law your refer to is Immeniment Domain (spelling). It allowa the government to take away homes people own in order to "better" the community oir something to that nature. Jason Safoutin 21:20, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

The article says that the only owner affected has reportedly signed a contract with the developer, i.e. the owner has given his consent, so I don't see how eminent domain would apply in this case. See eminent domain for a definition. -- Avenue 22:46, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Absolutely not news
Get it off the air. Neutralizer 20:13, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Give me a reason. Jason Safoutin 20:15, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I don't see what's wrong with it? Jon Harald Søby 20:20, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Cats
Is Category: Local Only really necessary? Just wondering...would like opinion other than the one of the user who put the category there. Jason Safoutin 21:32, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * It doesn't do anything -- yet. I think it will eventually prevent stories from appearing on the front page (when our daily article count increases significantly)... --Chiacomo (talk) 21:34, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * So wouldn't that cat be non beneficial? Jason Safoutin 21:38, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * If it satisifes another editor, why worry? --Chiacomo (talk) 21:39, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Im not. Its just I have been here for 2 months nearly and thats the first time I evcer heard of or seen that cat. Jason Safoutin 21:41, 18 February 2006 (UTC) And its not used often becuase there is only about a handfull or two in there. Jason Safoutin 21:41, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Re: categories, and the notion of highly local stories, I have tried to summarize current practice at Local stories.--Eloquence 03:58, 19 February 2006 (UTC)


text:
User:Lady Aleena

 Lady Aleena on ... See Lady Aleena on Wikipedia for more information.
 * Meta-Wiki
 * Wikipedia
 * Commons
 * Wiktionary
 * Wikibooks
 * Wikinews
 * Wikiquote
 * Wikisource
 * Wikispecies
 * Wikiversity
 * MediaWiki

title: User:Lady Aleena


text:
Bird flu could kill between 1.4 and 140 million people - Australian researchers

February 17, 2006

Two Australian researchers at the Australian National University estimate that a global pandemic of the deadly H5N1 strain of bird flu could kill between 1.4 and 140 million humans and cause a global recession. They will formally present their research to the Lowy Institute in Sydney today.

Professor Warwick McKibbin, a well respected economic modeller, member of the board of the Reserve Bank of Australia and health expert and Dr Alexandra Sidorenko modelled the effect of a bird flu pandemic on human health and the global economy. Their study looks at four possible scenarios - mild, moderate, severe and extreme.

Under the mild scenario, they predict that 1.4 million people worldwide and 2,100 Australians would die. The extreme scenario predicts 140 million worldwide deaths with 214,000 Australians among them. 30 percent of the Australian population would be expected to become infected should a pandemic occur.

In the extreme case, the global ecomomy would suffer losses of US$4.4 trillion or 12.6 percent.

Prof. McKibbin says that his economic estimates do not only include the cost of death but also for lost productivity. In an interview with ABC, Professor McKibbin said "Firstly, there's a reduction in the labour force. Now, interestingly it's not just that people die which is causing economic loss, but actually there is a substantial amount of illness in any influenza pandemic. "

"And so we try and capture both the death and the impact of that on the economy as well as illness during the pandemic, and including the fact that different economies have different labour market structures and that it's not just workers that get sick but also children, and we try to model the fact that carers will be taking time off work. " said Prof. McKibbin.

Pandemics have broken out every 10 to 40 years since the 19th century. The last pandemic was in 1968 caused by the Hong Kong flu.

"It is 37 years since the last pandemic and many argue that another pandemic is overdue," warns the report. The report advises investment in Asia, where health systems are less developed.