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Talk:CNN journalist fired for controversial Twitter message

Fired?
Was she definitely fired? It says here "she left her post permanently." That reads like she resigned instead of being fired. Either way (talk) 21:16, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

yeah i was wondering how to put this--most articles are saying 'fired', but the whole point of putting in the 'she talked to her boss' thing is that when you read that quote they try to pitch it like 'they came to an agreement and she left.' but maybe that gives her too much agency in this scenario, since it wasnt like a 'you cant fire me because i quit scenario' so much as 'you are definitely fired but we have to make it seem cordial for PR' thing. i'm not sure how to proceed. Parkbench (talk) 21:52, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

i rephrased it. what do you think? i did another big edit to the article to get rid of some of the tangential details about fadlallah's life and delve into more of the response from the blogosphere and arab media. i gotta stop soon though or i could edit this thing to oblivion. and you know it shouldnt all just be my input anyway. Parkbench (talk) 01:57, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

huh-whaaat?
so i'm not trying to jump the gun or anything, i'm just curious how this process works (first time, giggle). is this now waiting for an "approved" reviewer to give it the green light or send it back for more revisions? or is that on me?

thanks, Parkbench (talk) 05:42, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Your first guess is right: waiting for an approved reviewer. Article is third in a queue of five, but reviewers don't always pick reviews in order.  Typically wait 12 to 24 hours for a review, except for the hottest news.  --InfantGorilla (talk) 06:27, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

 * thanx! Parkbench (talk) 11:02, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Neutrality
Having read this a couple of times, my gut feeling is that it is not as impartial as it could be. My reaction isn't strong enough to plaster a big "NPOV" banner over the top of the article (which knocks it out of the review queue.)

However my suggestion is that gives an appearance of being pro-Nasr and perhaps a little anti-Israel.

It is natural for us as fellow journalists (however unpaid) to support one of our own, but I don't think that is what Wikinews strives for.

Could you research to see if there are more newsworthy quotes from Israeli sources? As long as the bias doesn't go the other way, this may help a reviewer.

--InfantGorilla (talk) 14:13, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

InfantGorilla,

I am wondering what you would suggest to improve the article and make it "neutral". My own biases are nothing hidden and I'd be happy to disclose them to anyone. But in this scenario what is important is actual commentary and comparative analysis. Where do you see that in the commentary condemning Nasr? It is all ad-hominem attacks and shaky ahistorical critiques. It is not an accident that the ones offering complex historical arguments from multiple angles are the ones who are "anti-Israel", as you claim (I think this is a misleading title and entirely loaded, though you may believe it to be objective). It is not an accident that the ones reinforcing standard mythology about Iran, Hizbullah, Muslims, Israel, Arabs, etc. are incapable of recognising or even speaking about privilege, systems of oppression, or politics in any way that does not remind you of celebrity gossip blogs, in any way that is nuanced enough to have respect for themselves and their readers.

The entire point and strength of an independent news source is precisely that it can provide alternative currents for a narrative which might otherwise be mainstreamed to the point of having absolutely nothing to do with reality, the realm of utter fantasy, like most of what happens in relation to Israel in the news. I was under the impression that wikinews, being what it is, would be precisely the opportunity to highlight those aspects of this narrative--like commentary from people in the Arab world and with actual experience and knowledge of its history, not talking heads like a Samuel Huntington or Thomas Friedman--which are essential to understanding this story but which get downplayed in the hegemonic media because it is not palatable to certain ears. There is very little out there about her actual firing, and even if there was, I am not sure how one would report on it without the real significance of the case being completely lost into a mere bundle of facts. The real story IS Fadlallah, IS how the US reacted to him as a 'figure', IS about the US's role in the Middle East, and Octavia Nasr is a vessel.

I understand the strategic necessity/evil of NPOV and even agree with it in a lot of ways, and I might even agree with your critique that more "pro-Israel" (I'm not sure what this actually means) voices should be put into the article. And I also understand that ideals are often one thing and practical realities are another--and that wikinews serves a specific role in internet news and that it's not my job to show up and demand that it be different. I'm just cognizant of the fact that this could very quickly become a way of compromising the integrity of the piece as it is, under the guise of an 'objectivity' that is no objectivity (glenn greenwald makes this point, actually, at the end of his piece ;)). NPOV, neutrality, objectivity...these are not innocent, ethereal & eternal categories, they have a history and this history is ugly, and so I am wary when it is brought to the table, especially on an issue as "contentious" as this, where any attempt to vouch for subaltern voices is consistently challenged as "anti-Israel" and "not fair"--one begins to think that a 6-month training course in anti-racist work and unlearning privilege & power would do this line of argument a lot of good, and set it down forever & always.

Thanks for your time so far in keeping an eye on this and I know you probably have good intentions; I just wanted to lay out how I was feeling about this honestly, and it seemed like a good opportunity. It's far too easy to get far too hostile on the Internet and I don't want to do that right off the bat, especially in a place I've just joined and want to be a part of in the long run. At the same time, I don't want to pretend to be someone I'm not--and I'd rather put myself out there then have it be something that has to be 'uncovered' later on.

I am still open to doing some more legwork and getting more reactions outside of just HonestReporting. I would like suggestions, however, and guidance in this matter, in light of what I've just posted. Parkbench (talk) 20:32, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for taking the time to respond to me in detail.

I applaud you for writing a review of the media response to a broadcaster's reaction to a current event. Even though that is 3 levels of introspection, it seems to work and is interesting to all of us here who write, edit and review.

In my opinion:
 * 1) Wikinews is independent as you say, in that no one tells us what stories to cover, and that we can and should aim to cover as many viewpoints on a story as are relevant.
 * 2) However, whether by design or accident, Wikinews has evolved a rather bald style, where we state facts, put them in context, but leave interpretation to the reader. I may even go as far to say that, as you may have noticed, most writers avoid analysis of current affairs.  (I have only read a fraction of the site's tens of thousands of articles, but that is my personal impression)
 * 3) While the quality of the debate from various parties may indeed be woeful, I think our stock solution is to aim to quote impartially, and allow those with weak, illogical, or illiberal arguments to be hoisted on their own petard, if you excuse the cliché.
 * 4) You have about 200 words of defense of Nasr and the cleric, and about 50 words of attack. If the story is the defense that is probably ok, but if the story is the attack, the firing, or the international politics of the cleric himself, then my suggestion is that Israelis and pro-Israeli sources should get more airing.

A quick question for you, as (you may have guessed) I know little about Lebanese society. Is it relevant that Nasr is Christian? (Very few sources mention that she is neither Jewish nor Muslim, nor have I heard whether she is a citizen of the US or of Lebanon.)

--InfantGorilla (talk) 12:58, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

 * This may be a bit out of date as I'm travelling and am not able to stay current with what's happening, however:
 * Wikinewsies cover stories which interest them. This is how wikis work.
 * Wikinews stories do deliberately avoid analysis and interpretation. This was a conscious push early in the development of wikinews specifically in reaction to MSM's trend toward only presenting analysis/interpretation and less presentation of the facts from which such is derived.
 * The assumption in your third point is the news event is the debate. It is not. The news event is the firing, and whether or not it may have been motivated for political rather than business reason.
 * I agree there is too much background. I mentioned this in my review comments. I don't judge whether that background is biased or not, because it does not detract from coverage of the news event; it may distract however.
 * -  Amgine | t 16:29, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

InfantGorilla & AMGINE:

I'm glad you both have informed me more concretely about the driving philosophy behind WikiNews, as it certainly helps me in understanding the context of my own article and the context of the site in relation to the rest of the alt media/blogosphere. Let me respond to a few things:

On the surface, I think the idea of "quoting impartially" and letting weak arguments stand on their own is a noble one. It certainly makes sense as a starting principle for many different kinds of writing projects, and I found myself trying to do this at least somewhat in this article when I looked for sources to cite.

However, while you say that the difference between "MSM" and WikiNews would be the journalistic choice to not delve into analysis and interpretation, I think you might find that those within the MSM industry would often describe what they do in the same way. And I do not think this is an accident. I believe that by choosing to believe in the "impartiality of facts" both WikiNews and MSM, as far as ya'll have articulated it, are operating on the same basic principles in which there is less accountability for the context of social events and for the ethical role of the journalist in reporting in the first place.

What I'm trying to say is that "the facts" is not an innocent category. "The facts", as they are presented, are most commonly reported in the MSM in accordance with a particular historical/social/political climate in which what Octavia Nasr did is abhorrent. I was serious when I said that I challenge you to find relevant commentary that is following this tack. But "reporting the facts as they are" would be to do the opposite of journalism; it would be to accept the presentation of the narrative as it is and not actually do the research or homework to expose the complex network of people, organisations, and motivations which led to the event in the first place--especially since we're talking about an incredibly wealthy and incredibly powerful industry which has the institutional capacity to establish truth on its terms, such that even when people disagree with its version of events, they often get caught speaking on precisely the same terms anyway. This is what I would contend with the Octavia Nasr incident--it is true that the "facts as they are" stick to the event of her firing in isolation. But that is precisely the point: that it serves the interest of MSM media outlets to de-contextualise the actual story and its historical (and forget that--even recent, as glenn greenwald pointed out) antecedents and to present it as an entirely abstracted, individual moral dilemma, whose moral conclusion is, by the way, already predetermined in the writing of the story itself, in the institution of its story-telling, even as it is simultaneously presented as objective. In this way, the MSM can also fabricate the separate category of "analysis/opinion" such that the "main" content, that is, "the news", can continue to occupy the realm of supposedly accountable facticity, which mythologically maintains this status no matter how many times it has been proven that MSM outlets are constantly and indiscriminately engaged in distortions of events and in currying the favor of this or that lobby in their storytelling. This should offer a hint that something other than "communication" or "the exchange of facts" is going on; how is it that something which so publicly demonstrates its lack of accountability and willful indiscretion so often can still escape reprobation so totally? How is it that it can continue to speak with authority, to speak with such authority that those who even detest it find themselves with almost nowhere else to turn in order to speak authoritatively, the only way they have ever known how to speak about things by virtue of its prevalence and publicity? This is, at its most basic, to speak about power, about discourse, about the construction of knowledge...these are all the things the MSM has or has access to that we do as well, but not nearly to the same degree. Power reinforces and eternalises the mythological condition of "factual news reporting" such that undoing it appears to be an insane and utterly improbable project (again, no matter how many times it is demonstrated that this "counter-knowledge" approach produces effective results with empowering implications for the community of people involved in its articulation).

So while we may think that we are displaying impeccable moral discipline and professionalism by not engaging in "analysis", we could also end up producing news media that is little more than a hollow reflection of the kind of news already put out there by the MSM, giving WikiNews essentially no original role in the news-making process other than to make it more immediate and potentially more regionalist (allowing people from specific regions to publish more material on their communities than might otherwise be the case in MSM). Isn't this what hegemony means, by definition? That one creates a situation in which it is actually not possible to think in ways that have not already been established as 'normal'? That we end up fighting each other over whether we should give more room for the most rancorous hate for human beings under the imagined auspices of journalistic integrity instead of instantiating a qualitatively different way of interacting with social events in general and the news in particular?

The "weight of acknowledgment", as Spivak would say, in recognising the unavoidable subjectivity and interestedness of a project such as WikiNews would be to create accountability rather than denounce it. This alo does not necessarily imply "analysis", as you have said; the fact that many within the Arab world and those (as I said in my first reply) with a much more intimate and long-lasting relationship with Arab politics--that is, those who are not getting spoken for, those who are not in bed with the establishment of major corporate reporting and Washington policy-thought, like Mr. Friedman and Mr. Huntington--have chosen to speak about Fadlallah's relationship to the US at length is important. Especially since many of them were doing this within reaction pieces to the Octavia Nasr controversy--it's not digging very far to provide 'background' at all.

The simple truth, for me, is that we would only be reproducing fundamentally non-factual reporting that emphasised the scandal and spectacle of her firing rather than the network of power relationships that allowed someone to fire someone else for making such a statement about a Middle East leader in the first place.

I have rambled quite a bit and I don't know if I've accomplished anything other than demonstrate some kind of idealism which probably does not have a functional role in a solidified project with rules, regulations, and an established culture like WikiNews. At the same time, in line with my wanting to be utterly honest, I wanted to express exactly what I consider the stakes to be--even in my own abstruse and philosophically self-indulgent way--which is precisely the kind of thing a corporate MSM reporter not only would not do, but could not afford to do by virtue of the structure of their industry and the fundamental commitments they have found themselves bound up in.

In the end, it might still make sense to include some more "pro-Israeli" sources (I am still wondering what this means and am hoping you might clarify this for me, because it does not seem to indicate any one thing to me) given all that I have said. What I would contest is the removal of the 'background' which would be to essentially reproduce the non-issue debate fabricated by influential and powerful corporate media and Washington lobbies--and by this logic, we would actually never report anything at all but what people 'want to hear'.

PS: Just wanted to note something I realised on the way out the door: InfantGorilla, you claim that I have 50 words 'of attack' and '200 words about Nasr and the cleric'. It is interesting that you did not say 'defense', here, though you could've. But I think it's important--if one wanted to center this on Nasr and her firing a bit more, then one could have a back and forth speculating about the nature of Nasr's character, and I could have presented a 'defense'. On the other hand, though I read numerous pieces which discussed what she "possibly could have been thinking", or even sources which I cited here which went off and criticised even her apology, I did not choose to speculate on these matters, especially whether or not she was honest in her claim that she was sad because Fadlallah was a pseudo-feminist of some kind. Instead, like you said, those 200 words are simply about 'Nasr and the cleric', and more the cleric, to be honest. I chose to focus on the sign & symbol which enraged everyone so, Fadlallah, and why it was that a certain kind of person choosing to invoke that symbol might be fired from her job and a certain other kind of person choosing to invoke that symbol might not. I am not sure if you would categorise this as analysis or opinion; if you did, then I think almost every article worth its salt that I would feel comfortable writing, in which I would not feel I was abandoning my responsibility as someone with the (racial, economic, etc.) privilege to write about essentially whatever I please, would only fit on the "Opinion" pages of existing news articles. In which case, I would probably abandon WikiNews forever and never look back.

Then again, perhaps the power of WikiNews might precisely be that it imitates the form and function of an MSM outlet while subtly providing a different experience, in which case my complaints and my ethical anxieties would be a little beyond the pale--unreasonable, that is. I might be willing to concede this, in the sense that I might be 'looking a gift horse in the mouth', and damning all of the hard work and careful, honest intention that might have gone into this site's creation and continual maintenance. All potentially fair critiques, which can even exist simultaneously with my own critiques, I think. However, at the end of the day, one must establish limits and points of departure, no? And in this sense I stand by my statements thus far.

Parkbench (talk) 20:01, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Re your postscript: if your selection of quotes was "analysis", it is not the kind of analysis that is banned here. An enlightening selection of quotes that highlights areas that are neglected by mainstream media, and puts events in context, is what we often aim for when we contribute synthesis articles (whether about an octopus or a religious leader.) Naturally, that leads to debate about whether the selection and presentation deserves out "publish" tag. Keep up the good work, and keep expecting others to challenge or edit your work here. --InfantGorilla (talk) 08:10, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Parkbench: Wow, that's a fairly thick hedge of verbiage to work through. Here's my effort at understanding and participating in the conversation:
 * I think, on the whole, Wikinews is an experiment not in the content of news, but in the gatekeepers of who is allowed to report what as news. Unlike blogging, its fundamental nature is collaborative. (As such, in my opinion, it has proven to be a failed model primarily due to competition in doing exactly the same thing from en.Wikipedia: that is, collaborative news is highly successful on en.Wikipedia - which does very bad news coverage - but because that project allows news coverage it is very difficult to convince volunteers to contribute to a project which requires good news writing.)
 * Addressing the discussion of facts, an analogy: the content of a photo is constrained - it cannot include everything, and its nature, quality, and beauty are determined both by what is included, and by what is excluded. If you've ever attended a protest or a strike and then looked at pictures or video of the same event you may wonder if the two are at all related. A protest of a dozen people looks pitiful and silly from half-way down the block, but a close up of the same protesters through a doorway can look like an insurrection or a war zone. In the same way a journalist's selection of facts to present will likely give a specific bias or impression of a story.
 * But the facts themselves are not changed by their inclusion or exclusion, only the impression presented to the reader.
 * In my first journalism class we had a lecture from a reasonably famous journalist who had gone from print through radio to television news, and xe asked the traditional question: "What is the purpose of journalism?" It is to sell advertising. There are lovely essays on the importance of the fifth estate, on its value in social change and so on, but it does not exist except as an industry to arrest people's attention long enough to present advertising to them, be it overt (actual advertisements) or covert (using coverage to instill a public perception or opinion, more commonly known as propaganda.) Understanding this you can also understand all efforts to bias coverage of events.
 * How can Wikinews coverage of news events, then, be different? they aren't. Wikinewsies cover news which interests them - which usually means the contributor has a POV on a given subject, and will tend to select or avoid facts in order to promote that POV. However, with a requirement that each factual statement be supported by an external source, and that a third party not involved in creating the article review the article for bias before publication, our process deliberately and transparently takes steps to minimize bias and also puts a high editorial value on neutrality.
 * The two important points in that last sentence are transparently and high editorial value. In MSM there are applications of editorial values, generally conducted out of sight of the reading public. This still happens on en.Wikinews, usually in IRC, #Wikinews, but even there people will request that discussions be place on-wiki so everyone can see who came to what conclusions, where, when, why, and how they implemented those conclusions. Transparency, more than any other feature, even more than collaboration, highlights the Wikinews model. (This is why, though I tend not do so myself, I prefer to see all the steps which went into writing a news article here. Seeing dozens of edits to an article I can see how the contributors found facts, where, how it influenced what they were saying about the event, and so on.)
 * That transparency means Wikinews is always evolving. We can see where arguments happened in the past, but we can also see how things have changed over time and how we can improve them now. Wikinews policies are basically "how things are done", and we agree those policies can change as soon as the community has a discussion and reaches consensus on changing things. For this reason we are constantly having discussions about how we should do things, what is more/less ethical behaviour, whether the main page is too cluttered/doesn't have enough/should be beige. We should never stop questioning ourselves and our processes, any more than we should ever stop questioning the motives of government and industry. -  Amgine | t 18:30, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

More Info
Just read a pretty good article from ForeignPolicy.com. It contains some more pointed and I think pretty well-cited information, especially about the CIA bombing thing, which draws out more of what's actually at stake beyond just the kind of vague 'allegations' referred to by the BBC and other articles--showing how it was the product of a particular kind of investigative journalism that was at least on one register confirmed by someone within the CIA. What do ya'll think? Would it be okay to include it just as another source?

Also, question on the link to retweets of #octavianasr...it seems kind of relevant, as this is concerning social networking, what people are doing on twitter in response. There are also people who agree with the firing who are posting with that tag, though there are fewer. Could we include it in the opening paragraph with like a short 10-word sentence or something?

Finally, a related question: I'm not sure what the kind of 'grace period' for editing articles about recent news is like this. I'm sure the idea is to get to a point where the story is generally 'set' until perhaps a whole new development is discovered and then that gets its own article. But basically, is there a point at which we want to say, 'okay, this article is what it is for better or for worse, and we should direct any further investigative efforts into future articles?'

Thanks, Parkbench 21:52, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Review of revision 1057002 [Passed]
The author explained the reasons for his choice of style. If the lead flagged up the intended approach, the piece may read better, however.

Any comments on my neutrality concerns, Amgine?

--InfantGorilla (talk) 16:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Categories
edit protected Please add this article to Category:CNN. Thank you. Green Giant (talk) 01:40, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ BRS  (Talk)   (Contribs) 10:42, 13 September 2015 (UTC)

edit protected Please add this article to Category:Washington Post. Green Giant (talk) 22:33, 27 September 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Pi zero (talk) 23:50, 27 September 2015 (UTC)


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User:Parkbench

not gay as in happy, queer as in fuck you.

(alex cachinero-gorman. student, freelance writer, activist.)

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This is a FAKER AND THIS IS 100% FALSE.


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__HIDDENCAT__ These are Wikinews articles where Nascar1996 is the main contributor and / or creator.

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US and Russia announce spy swap

July 9, 2010 The United States and Russia yesterday agreed to the swap of prisoners held by both nations after eleven Russian spies were arrested late last month.

The swap will include the ten Russian spies arrested on US soil (the eleventh was arrested in Cyprus and subsequently escaped) and four spies being held in Russia on charges of espionage. The spies arrested by the US all pled guilty to charges of "conspiracy to act as an unregistered agent of a foreign country." Below are the Russian spies who were convicted (cover names are in quotes, while real names are unquoted):

 * "Richard and Cynthia Murphy"
 * Vicky Paleaz
 * "Juan Lazaro"
 * Anna Chapman
 * Mikhail Zemenko
 * "Michael Zottoli" and "Patricia Mills"
 * "Donald Howard Heathfield" and "Tracy Lee Ann Foley"

The swap reportedly began late yesterday, with Russia beginning the process of releasing at least one of the prisoners they held,, almost immediately. Russian media reported that he had already arrived in Vienna, Austria, although his father said that it was so far unconfirmed.

Russia has so far not confirmed the identities of other prisoners to be released, although several names have been speculated, including, , and Alexander Sypachev, all accused of transferring information to foreign governments.

The US arrested the ten spies that are to be returned to Russia as part of its breakup of a long-term spy ring that had operated for years, and involved the spies living as American civilians, some as couples. Prosecutors say that they had been commanded by Russia's, with the mission of collecting information about American policy.

title: US and Russia announce spy swap


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User talk:Shankarnikhil88 (alternate account)

ping
I left a message on your other account's talk. Bawolff ☺☻ 23:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

 — Mike moral  ♪♫  23:27, 8 July 2010 (UTC)


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  Shankarnikhil88 Talk  -  About  -  Regular


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User talk:Chomsi~enwikinews

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Chomsi. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Chomsi~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:15, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:30, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

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And you have proof of this? Sources?


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NBA: LeBron James announces that he will join the Miami Heat

July 9, 2010 NBA small forward announced today that he will "take his talents to South Beach and join the ," after spending six years as the star player for the. Anticipation over LeBron's future team had been simmering for weeks as NBA teams tried to lure the free agent to their rosters. LeBron had met with representatives from the Cavaliers, Heat,, , , and.

In an interview televised by, James said that the Heat would give him "the best opportunity to win now and to win in the future also." However, James admitted, "I can't say it was always in my plans, because I never thought it was possible," and that he had changed his mind repeatedly in the days leading up to the announcement. He emphasized, "It's not about individuals. It's about a team." James also said in the interview that "the things that the Miami Heat franchise have done, to free up cap space and be able to put themselves in a position this summer to have all three of us, it was hard to turn down. Those are two great players ( and ), two of the greatest players that we have in this game today."

Referring to his fans in Ohio, James said, "They can have mixed emotions, of course," and that his hometown of in the state will "always be home for me."

Though Cleveland had offered James more money, to James and new teammates Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh, winning seemed to be more important. Both Wade and Bosh settled for less cash, instead fitting James into Miami's salary cap space.

Wade had announced Wednesday that he would be continuing to play in Miami, while Bosh decided to move to Florida from the. The three were drafted in 2003 and were teammates in the 2008 US Olympic basketball team. Wade said that playing with James and Bosh was "going to be crazy," while Bosh, "Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Fans in Miami honked horns outside the Heat's home arena, while television images from Cleveland showed LeBron James's jerseys being burned. Prior to the announcement, amid rumors that James would sign with the Heat, Heat season tickets had sold out.


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text: Talk:NBA: LeBron James announces that he will join the Miami Heat


text: Comments:NBA: LeBron James announces that he will join the Miami Heat


text: User talk:Danneskjöldi

title: User talk:Danneskjöldi


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text: User talk:गणेश पौडेल

title: User talk:गणेश पौडेल


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Thread:Comments:Georgian woman celebrates 130th birthday/Comments from feedback form - "I need a little more proof to ..."

I need a little more proof to back up the story, but it would seem to be true.


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Thread:Comments:Magnitude 5.4 earthquake hits Southern California/Comments from feedback form - "Good graphics and info"

Good graphics and info


text: User talk:神秘园来客

title: User talk:神秘园来客


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Thread:Comments:NBA: LeBron James announces that he will join the Miami Heat/Comments from feedback form - "Booo! La Bron should know not ..."

Booo! La Bron should know not to annoy a new yorker let alone the whole NYC...


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text: Wikinews interviews Chiaki Hayashi, Asian Projects Coordinator at Creative Commons


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title: User talk:Jo giarto


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Thread:Comments:NBA: LeBron James announces that he will join the Miami Heat/Comments from feedback form - "hopefully LBJ does win a much ..."

hopefully LBJ does win a much deserved championship ring


text: User talk:Charkac

title: User talk:Charkac


text: User talk:Pipboy4

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text: User talk:Sandyiyercool

title: User talk:Sandyiyercool


text: Talk:Leader of East Timor tells Australian prime minister to fully form asylum seeker policy


text: Comments:Leader of East Timor tells Australian prime minister to fully form asylum seeker policy


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User talk:Jak.plopelor~enwikinews

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Jak.plopelor. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Jak.plopelor~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:19, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:32, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jak.plopelor~enwikinews


text: User talk:Roesdy im

title: User talk:Roesdy im


text: User talk:Dewi yulyanti

title: User talk:Dewi yulyanti


text: User talk:Eshanbabu

title: User talk:Eshanbabu


text: User talk:Berenjilaw

title: User talk:Berenjilaw


text:
Thread:Comments:Georgian woman celebrates 130th birthday/Comments from feedback form - "This is a FAKER AND THIS IS 10..."/reply (2)

It's yet another claim of extreme longevity coming from a country with no reliable documentation, pushed by a family that welcomes the (financial) attention. The age is not independently verified by sources other than her passport - and she had an interest to make herself older in order to retire earlier. She may be old but not that old.

Update from the Associated Press: "Khvichava's 70-year-old son Mikhail apparently was born when his mother was 60." That says it all.


text: User talk:Enisozcan

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title: User talk:Jpsohn


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Thread:Comments:Spain advances to first World Cup Finals/Comments from feedback form - "I'M GOING DUTCH IN THE FINAL!"/reply (2)

WE WILL MOVE TOGETGER BROS.BRAVOOOOOOOO


text:
Thread:Comments:Spain advances to first World Cup Finals/Comments from feedback form - "I'M GOING DUTCH IN THE FINAL!"/reply (3)

WE WILL MOVE TOGETGER BROS.BRAVOOOOOOOO


text: User talk:Ermishin

title: User talk:Ermishin


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title: User talk:Jrmarsico


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text: User talk:Sergi CH

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text:
US prisoner in North Korea 'attempts suicide'

July 10, 2010

According to the North Korean government, a US citizen, Aijali Mahli Gomes, has attempted in a North Korean prison. In April, Gomes was sentenced to eight years of hard labour for illegally attempting to cross into the reclusive country in January, though his reasons for doing so remain unclear.

In addition to the prison term, the man was also fined the equivalent of 700,000 for a "hostile act".

"Driven by his strong guilty conscience, disappointment and despair at the US government that has not taken any measure for his freedom, he attempted to commit suicide," the North's Korean Central News Agency reported. This report did not specify where and how Gomes attempted suicide, or his state at present, only adding that Gomes "is now [being] given first-aid treatment at a hospital", and that Swedish diplomats at their Pyongyang embassy who handle diplomatic affairs between the US and North Korea have been made aware of Gomes' condition.

Gomes was an English teacher in South Korea before trying to cross into the North. Gomes had also attended rallies that supported human rights activist, who crossed into the North to protest the Communist country's poor human rights record. Park was later expelled from North Korea 40 days after he entered.

North Korea's international relations remain tense after the sinking of the South Korean warship Cheonan, and this report was issued just hours before the United Nations was expected to pass a resolution censuring the explosion of the Cheonan. North Korea has denied any involvement in the sinking of the warship and has declared that any sanctions from the international community will lead to war.


text: User:Clementina

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text: User talk:Alamin259

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text: Talk:US prisoner in North Korea 'attempts suicide'


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User talk:InfantGorilla/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the [ current talk page]

Archive 1 | Archive →

Welcome
, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! — Doldrums(talk) 12:17, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
 * Writing an article - how to write and publish a complete article
 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
 * The front page lead articles often need updating
 * Developing stories need finishing and publishing
 * Discussions need your input
 * And of course, stories need writing!

Thanks
For your picts and additional edits to the Blair and Dafur stories.Fentonrobb 00:00, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

lead article
have updated the lead article as u suggested. anyone can edit or suggest changes to the lead. it's protected because, as a high visibility page, it is an excellent target for vandalism, that's all. — Doldrums(talk) 05:14, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Kurdish Linux Article
Hi, I answered your question in my talk page. Thanks for your interest and help with that item :) Towsonu2003 19:30, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

berlusconi
no problem, happy editing :) --Mark Talk to me 13:43, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Editor Status
I have promoted you to the Editor class, as I feel you can be trusted to mark revisions of articles as sighted (review). Take a moment to read: If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask for help on my talk page, and thank you for contributing to Wikinews ! --PatrickFlaherty (talk) 19:50, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Flagged revisions
 * Reviewing articles
 * Peer review
 * Review
 * Reviewed article version
 * Flagged Revisions extension information, on MediaWiki

 * Thanks: I hope that when I call by here, I can use my new privileges to keep the news cycle moving. However, I read the linked articles and I am still puzzled.  My first question is:
 * Why are my own edits automatically marked as 'sighted'? Shouldn't I need an independent editor to sight my edits?
 * --InfantGorilla (talk) 20:25, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You will still need to have an independent review on articles that you create. Please don't sight the article until it has been published. So in effect, most of your edits will be reviewed during the review phase. Editor status is only given to users who we feel will use it wisely and I feel that you will do just that. --PatrickFlaherty (talk) 20:39, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That helps. So it seems only my edits to published articles are automatically sighted.
 * 2nd question:
 * What is the difference between an editor and a reviewer?
 * --InfantGorilla (talk) 20:48, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * We are not implemented reviewers and I'm not a hundred percent sure what the major difference between them. --PatrickFlaherty (talk) 21:07, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks really. I will keep posting. Parmar uday (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 17:02, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The current default welcome template is Welcome. Please only give it to people who make contributions, and use subst to put the text of the template on their talk as opposed to a link.

A new alternative which is under discussion is Howdy. --Brian McNeil / talk 17:56, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

About review
Thanks for your comment and support on this article. I'll say go ahead with the review. I don't know exactly how Wikinews works, so I guess it will be fun. I'll try to stay on hold and see how things unfold, but I need to go back to work. EJVargas (talk) 19:07, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Reply
It may be legal, but Wikinews convention really goes against doing anything like that, and, in the past, articles have been deleted for being copied from Wikipedia. The unless otherwise stated clause is really for obscure templates that could not be rewritten without dozens of days of work by loads of Wikinewsies. Anonymous101talk 20:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

It was an exact copy of a Wikipedia article (with the same title) in a non-existant namespace. If it had stuff that isn't in the WP article I would have kept that. Anonymous101talk 20:59, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Review
So, the harm is political, then? Jade Knight (talk) 01:41, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Sure. Mostly to your own reputation, as far as I can see. I assume that was the purpose of Brianmc's note: to warn you that when in a hole, to stop digging. Sorry about the awful cliche. --InfantGorilla (talk) 01:51, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks.
Nice to know you liked the news article written by me. It encouraged me to write a new one India wins Gavaskar Border trophy defeating Australia 2-0. I definitely like this place. --Gppande (talk) 19:08, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

For getting with the program
Good to see someone enthusiastic about the site and doing a great job rescuing stories and making people feel more welcome.

As you may have noticed I updated the welcome template - there's a discussion on the water cooler and I've generally had good feedback in IRC - but I do like additional input. The whole thing is focused around directing people to WN:ARTICLE and there have been some items raised as little tips and tricks that might need added to it. I'm interested in seeing someone add a ==See also== section to WN:ARTICLE with additional essays.

Over the past couple of days you rescued a couple of dead stories by moving them into shorts and - as expanded - back out into separate articles. How's about contributing a WN:SHORTS redirect to Shorts - a roundup of a grab-bag of stories? Something laying out how to start a shorts; how to 'rescue' minimal stories to fill out the shorts; returning a fleshed-out segment to a separate article, and anything else that you think might encourage people to contribute for short periods several times a day. --Brian McNeil / talk 11:11, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Good idea, Brian. I found the existing guidance on 'shorts' or 'briefs' kind of confusing.  I have seen that French Wikinews allows a brief to go to publication on its own, and I think it would be more welcoming to newcomers if we did the same.  (You probably noticed, but it wasn't me that broke out the stories into separate articles, it was ShakataGaNai.)  --InfantGorilla (talk) 11:21, 12 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't exactly paying enough attention to see who did the final steps, but I did wonder if the shorts item had been published how to break things out - possibly by retaining the heading in the shorts and using the wikinews template to link to the broke out article. This presupposes the shorts get published promptly and then heavily worked on, something not impossible. I don't really like trying to work on the shorts, as my recent articles will show I prefer telling a more in-depth story. --Brian McNeil / talk 12:09, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Rearranging leads
I certainly agree it is sometimes the best move to demote or promote items - especially from lead 1 - but you can't just cut and paste the entire template; certain sections are dependent on which lead position the story is in.

When you moved the Russian sub. story from Lead 1 to 4 you left the "edit" link on lead 4 going to edit lead 1. A look in the history will show what was wrong. --Brian McNeil / talk 14:28, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Sorry - thank you. The edit links are not properly documented.  Maybe I will try to address that one day.  Thanks for fixing my error and drawing it to my attention. --InfantGorilla (talk) 17:20, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: Moon Impact Probe to land tonight
I would welcome and will try to do so Azamishaque (talk) 08:06, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Bush welcomes Obama at White House
Help required to improve this article Bush welcomes Obama at White House. Thanks Azamishaque (talk) 14:51, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: Preserving the talk page of an abandoned article?
I suggest you raise this request at WN:AAA for community input there. Cirt (talk) 17:29, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Fortune Cup
Help in improving Pakistan wins Fortune Cup defeating West Indies by 3-0, Thanks also Bush welcomes Obama at White House Thanks. Azamishaque (talk) 08:07, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

 * It is too late for the White House story - I have read that Wikinews only publishes news about events that happened in the last 2 to 3 days. --InfantGorilla (talk) 09:31, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Medal of Freedom
Help in Deposed Chief Justice of Pakistan Confered Medal of Freedom from Harvard Thanks Azamishaque (talk) 15:04, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Re: Protest article
Yes, I'll review it later tonight. Don't worry. --TUFKAAP (talk) 18:43, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: Speedy deletion of redundant image?
Hi, I've left you a response to your message at w:user talk:east718. east718 (talk) 19:23, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks and Best of Luck this 2009
User:Florentino Florotalk has given you a Wiki Dwarf red buckeye "good luck"! "Good Luck" promotes WikiLuck and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLuck by giving someone else a Good Luck, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy Lunar New Year, January 26! Spread the goodness of New Year Lucks by adding this Dwarf Luck to their talk page with a friendly message. Thanks for the nomination, it a great honor for me. Cheers.--Florentino Floro (talk) 06:18, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Lance Armstrong's 'Tour Down Under' press conference
You requested and got this article restored. I just want to remind you to do something with it soon, as it is about to get deleted again as abandoned. Cheers, --SVTCobra 01:46, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Probaganda
Propaganda war: trusting what we see Kasaalan (talk) 12:27, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikinews
One of your pictures appears in an (as yet unpublished) Wikinews article: Wikinews Shorts: January 26. Sprinter Allan Davis wins the Tour Down Under --InfantGorilla (talk) 13:52, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for that. You might have noticed the stack of photos that I took that are listed right on my Wikipedia talk page and on commons that I took at the start of the TDU with a fun opinion poll I hope. They might be of some use to you. I don't know if you write WNews articles but South Africa beat Australia in their ODI series yesterday and that was on Australia Day. I went to the training session on Jan 25 and took some photos to upload. YellowMonkey  (click here to vote for world cycling's #1 model! ) 00:53, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Are you interested in writing something about the cricket? YellowMonkey (talk) 01:07, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

I (re)wrote one cricket article originally contributed by an Urdu-speaking wikinewsie: Pakistan wins Fortune Cup defeating West Indies by 3-0. Because I don't know much about cricket, I hope that helped make it readable for an international audience. I probably won't be writing an article today, (even a brief) so yesterday's ODI will have to be one for the Wikipedians. However, see the newsroom (and the welcome message on your talk page) to see how easy it is to chip in yourself. --InfantGorilla (talk) 10:53, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

 * URGENT - Please upload something from Sunday's cricket practice: we need something current to illustrate: Australia celebrates Australia Day 2009. --InfantGorilla (talk) 12:26, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, all on my commons, the latest lot. Johan Botha is the south African captain. YellowMonkey (talk) 03:27, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

In depth: Guantanamo military commissions
No edits in five days ... I had to tag In depth: Guantanamo military commissions as abandoned. If need be, you can move to user space ... it just can't sit there in the Newsroom. Cheers, --SVTCobra 03:33, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No problem - I hoped to have it done by now. I left a link in Newsroom/Collaboration - is that ok? --InfantGorilla (talk) 07:33, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Speaking of which, are you ever going to expand that article? Most of the stuff in there will be very much out-of-date by now. Side note, welcome back, nice to see you around again after a long hiatus Smile.png. Tempodivalse [talk]  17:56, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * It is a shame that I left it - it depends what recent information I can uncover. I don't know if I dare stay back for long - this is addictive.  --InfantGorilla (talk) 18:00, 10 May 2010 (UTC)

Obscenities
Hi InfantGorilla, regarding this edit, I've noticed we usually don't redact profanities from talk page comments. If the comment is pure trolling, we just get rid of it completely. Remember that Wikinews isn't censored. Not sure if it's a good or bad thing, but that's our current modus operandi. Cheers, Tempodivalse [talk]  14:13, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

 * I doubt it is trolling - probably an excited soccer fan. We discussed this when we introduced opinion pages, and came up with Template:Commentary.  I think redaction of the word fuck is in the spirit of that template, and doesn't really go against the grain of our anti-censorship consensus, but if a third party such as yourself reverted me, I won't edit war with you.

 * To put in perspective, if a commenter posted an opinion where fuck was used for one of its dictionary meanings, rather than to mean "I am excited", I may be a little more sympathetic.  We don't use the word in articles, so why in comments?

 * (I guess I've blown my chances of being an admin.)

 * --InfantGorilla (talk) 14:24, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

 * Well, actually we do use profanities in the mainspace sometimes - i.e., as part of quotes. In commentary, even the regulars profane once in a while on a controversial topic. I personally don't have any strong opinions either way here, just thought I'd bring a heads-up that it might be reverted. (And I don't see how this has blown your chances of being an admin ;) All you need is a few weeks of recent activity and you'll pass rather easily, I suspect.) Tempodivalse [talk]  14:39, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

RE:FAC
You're not going to support your own Featured Article Candidate? --James Pain (talk) 16:49, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

 * Yes! I posted my argument in favour in the nomination. Extra digital ink for a support template is redundancy that annoys me a little.  Sorry.  --InfantGorilla (talk) 13:27, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Lead article switching
Hi InfantGorilla, I was just wondering why you reverted my rotation of the leads? I had intentionally given the Deepwater Horizon story a more prominent position as it was more internationally-relevant than the Detroit piece, which seemed to be more local. Cheers, Tempodivalse [talk]  13:56, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

 * It was partly accidental: somehow the wrong template id ended up on lead 1 - so the link to edit it took me to the Detroit article (I thought it was my own mistake, so I quickly restored the Detroit piece).  Secondly, I put Detroit first because it is 24 hours newer than the Deepwater Horizon piece.  --InfantGorilla (talk) 13:59, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

 * Mm, yeah, this is the problem when nobody's written anything for the past 24 hours, we have to put less desirable stuff up on leads due to everything else being stale. I've written two short articles that are in the review queue, if you're interested in reviewing one or both of them then we'll have fresher stories to put on the front page. (*hint, hint!*) Tempodivalse [talk]  14:05, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
 * On a related note, I removed Efforts to cap Deepwater Horizon oil spill delayed again because it's not that relevant anymore--they got the device working yesterday morning.  — fetch · comms  20:53, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Admin
Hi, I've made you an admin per your successful request for adminship. Have fun with your new tools, and if you ever have questions about how to use them, please don't hesitate to ask. ;-) Cheers, Tempodivalse [talk]  14:16, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Those 7 days went quickly! Thanks kindly to all that read my RFP: I hope to be of more help than hindrance.  Let me know if that appears not to be the case. --InfantGorilla (talk) 15:03, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Scientists develop 'Smart Bomb' treatment, could kill cancer
Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikinews is a wiki, so anyone can edit any article by simply following the  link at the top. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills. Diego Grez return fire 00:29, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Diego, regardless of what wiki we're on, not templating the regulars is probably still a good idea. That's sort of condescending, IMO, I don't think there's anything there he doesn't already know... C628 (talk) 00:36, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I am not offended. (Besides, I am accidentally patronising myself too often. I believe I left a patronising note for Diego just last week. Sorry.)  However, please don't do it to others.  I had exhausted my time on Wikinews yesterday, and I hoped that those originally involved in the article may be have more time/enthusiasm to make a true synthesis.  --InfantGorilla (talk) 08:32, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm just suggesting him to do the hard work by himself ;). I've added the additional source anyway. --Diego Grez return fire 00:37, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The point of single source is the article should take information from multiple sources (so that its combining information, instead of just re-writing another article). Just adding another source template doesn't address that imho. Bawolff ☺☻ 00:39, 6 July 2010 (UTC)
 * (This part of the conversation should be repeated on the article's talk page, to inform the unregistered original contributor.) --InfantGorilla (talk) 08:32, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Re: 2010 photos of cyclists
Hi, I do have quite a few photos from this year's Tour of Cali, but my photographic skills are hardly up there among the greatest! I mean, none will be FPC candidates. I will go through them today and upload them by the end of the week. After the whole thing here I wasn't really in a rush to up them, especially since I haven't started work on the article @ en-wp. But yeah, the cycling season is well and truly upon us, so I'll get cracking. -- M.E. (on the phone) -- 69.78.70.148 (talk) 20:14, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Considering the things that happened here (at English Wikinews), I appreciate the generosity. I am preparing a road racing news report, but it may not come to anything.  In the meantime, recent cycling photos will be a great asset to Commons and the Wikipedias.  There are only 4 pics from the 2010 ToC so far.  --InfantGorilla (talk) 09:24, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

DR question
No. Please read what I said. Blood Red Sandman (Talk)   (Contribs) 09:08, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Reason I asked is, as a relatively uninvolved editor, I wanted to volunteer to close this DR.
 * I read what you said, and tried to interpret it. You voted 'keep with correction notice', but then posted a comment suggesting that a deletion ought to be followed by a recreation with a correction notice, but that you won't strike your original vote.
 * That led me to my incorrect interpretation of your wishes.
 * I wanted you to help my poor confused brain by trying to restate your wishes in other terms, as I still don't know what they were.

 * However, in the meantime another admin has closed. So a clearer statement of your views is probably moot.

 * --InfantGorilla (talk) 11:10, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

 * "...but then posted a comment suggesting that a deletion ought to be followed by a recreation with a correction notice, but that you won't strike your original vote." That, I think, is where it's wrong. Most other people in support of that then struck their original votes to go with that. In light of that shift in discussion, you might wish to substitute but with and. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 13:34, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Neither 'but' nor 'and' help me understand the direction you wanted to influence the closer. Perhaps I am just sore because it didn't close the way I wanted.  I think I'd better let it lie. --InfantGorilla (talk) 13:48, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

 * I honestly don't know how you don't understand that, but I agree that this is pointless now. From a point of pure interest: the closest I now think I can come to explaining it to you is to state that I was happy with how it closed. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 14:20, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

 * That helps. Do you think we should also publish an apology from the community to Ms. Hayashi?  I do.  --InfantGorilla (talk) 15:00, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

 * I'd certainly like to, yes. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 15:04, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Should we draft it on the Water Cooler, or on a sub-page to the Water Cooler, perhaps? It needs plenty of visibility to be a genuine community statement.  --InfantGorilla (talk) 15:08, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Yes, the WC is the place to go. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 15:19, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Twitter firing
I commented on your NPOV concerns on the talk page. -  Amgine | t 16:32, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks
Thank you for notifying me of this convention here, I did not know that this existed. I originally thought that administrators were automatically notified; evidently, I was wrong, thanks for letting me know. Tyrol5 (talk) 16:33, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Well they kind of are notified automatically. That is how I found your request.  I have asked a question at WN:AAA to clarify.  --InfantGorilla (talk) 18:03, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Talk:Getty taps into Flickr snappers
Hi. I replied at Talk:Getty taps into Flickr snappers. — Jeff G. ツ 01:57, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

ArbCom
I see you've been nominated for ArbCom. The nomination is waiting for you to (as BRS put it to me) clearly accept or decline to stand, at Arbitration Committee/2010 election/Nominations. --Pi zero (talk) 11:37, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

 * That is a humbling nomination. I am afraid I am considering declining the nomination, as my participation in Wikinews has been irregular over the years I have been here, so much so that it seems unlikely I will be available at the start of an ArbCom case, nor be able to consistently contribute for the duration of a case. Opinions welcome.  --InfantGorilla (talk) 13:43, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

 * It might be helpful to you, in ordering your thoughts, to ask yourself what sort of answer you would give to this question.

 * BTW, I've found just standing for the position is rather draining. I try to answer a question each day (sometimes two, depending), and I also do some background study each day.  Of course, on the studying, I have the disadvantage of having not even come here until late 2008, so there's a lot of history that I didn't see first-hand.  --Pi zero (talk) 16:55, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi there! ArbCom elections are scheduled to begin in a little over 24 hours, so I encourage you to explicitly accept or decline your nomination. Cheers! Benny the mascot (talk) 23:40, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

History of Wikinews

 * Someone should write History of Wikinews to help answer some of those questions. I read ArbCom's two cases, but I don't know anything about the incident that led to its formation.  --InfantGorilla (talk) 17:03, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

 * <laugh> No surer way to re-create drama! I'd be happy to give my point of view of some elements of the history, however. Keep in mind that several-to-many arbcom cases were rejected or withdrawn, but may give additional context to the decisions which have been made. For myself, at least, I view the case with Brian New Zealand as a very amicable discussion where two incompatible and strongly held views were brought to a compromise. - <span style="font: italic 10pt/12pt cursive;"> Amgine | t 17:10, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

 * History of Wikinews would also be about non-drama, like wikinewsie.org, the Shimon Peres interview, the introduction of the three paragraph minimum, flagged revisions, records, milestones, accreditation, Original Reporting versus No Original Research, relations with other language Wikinews, the Foundation image use resolution ... --InfantGorilla (talk) 17:22, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Not to mention my 'discussions' with the board over a year previous where they (finally) allowed Wikinews to have file uploads so we would not be restricted by Commons's image use policies... (Yes, they specifically approved our FU policy *before* we were allowed to upload *any* files.) - <span style="font: italic 10pt/12pt cursive;"> Amgine | t 17:30, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Ah yes! Someone mentioned the drama that led to the formation of ArbCom, a dispute involving (sometimes spelled [ MrMiscellaneous] ) and   that I guess should get a mention in the History. --InfantGorilla (talk) 08:49, 22 July 2010 (UTC) (Water_cooler/policy/Archive/12 ?)

We can also have BRS going to the mat with Mike Godwin. Also the introduction of opinion pages, then the feedback form: all big days to remember. --InfantGorilla (talk) 08:52, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

 * <gg> Neutralizer seemed mostly opposed to myself, but he had a particular softspot for MrM as well. I know MrM suggested xe would continue with Wikinews under a different nom de guerre; I admit I rather specifically avoided looking for any evidence of xyr sockpuppeting. I was always amused the community reversed my 6 month block of Neutralizer (for there was no policy for bans or long-term blocks more than 30 days), then after I went on wikibreak (unrelated to wikinews) and, surprise surprise, the community decided to permaban Neutralizer.

 * M Godwin is actually pretty good people. Doesn't respect Wikinews as a project, but then that's not what xe is paid to do. I had a discussion with xyr at the height of that particular conflict which, I like to think, helped reduce some of the drama. - <span style="font: italic 10pt/12pt cursive;"> Amgine | t 02:15, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

 * I read a mention of BRS "going to the mat" but it didn't mention the subject matter. Does it relate to the Barbara Bauer incident?  From the bits and pieces I saw of it, it was not so much drama as everyone doing what they had to do for free speech and the commons.  --InfantGorilla (talk) 06:09, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

thanks
Thanks for your supportive comments & patience. I do look forward to the challenges. I am currently working on a few leads for some original wikinews reporting that I'm pretty excited about. We'll see where it goes.

love & solidarity, Parkbench (talk) 20:58, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Please use brackets
For editorial insertions in a quote, please use [ and ]. - <span style="font: italic 10pt/12pt cursive;"> Amgine | t 16:01, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

 * I prefer curved brackets (parentheses), which should be ok as long as the use is consistent within the article. However, I will try to remember that the style guide recommends square ones.  --InfantGorilla (talk) 16:48, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Parens are used to delineate a parenthetical phrase, while square brackets specifically indicate an editorial alteration of a quote. For example, "Warren Beatty (I still find sexy at 70) is a producer on my next film [Parallax Viewpoint], which plays off his œuvre." - <span style="font: italic 10pt/12pt cursive;"> Amgine | t 17:25, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Edit to Helicopter crashes in Tuscon, Arizona
Hi InfantGorilla. Could you clarify why you made this edit ? The article said this:

I don't see how that implies that LifeNet belongs to the FAA. Also, you reverted my other edits, so I think that there may have been an edit conflict - <font color="#21421E" face="Harrington">EdoDodo talk 18:47, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Invisible edit conflict? Yours looks ok. --InfantGorilla (talk) 20:51, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Savings 'skimmed' for fees, says UK newspaper
Question for passers-by: How could we present this material, in an article with a neutral point of view?
 * http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/savings/7919778/7billion-a-year-skimmed-off-our-savings.html

--InfantGorilla (talk) 12:58, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

 * See this about use/misuse of numbers. The authors in the article are making up some of the numbers there for sensationalism. Not that the real numbers aren't serious enough. The story idea is excellent; will probably require original research in contacting a few economists involved in the banking industry. Important angle in the USA: what is the profit percentage trend over the past 5, 10, and 30 years on investment banks? (as opposed to investment instruments?) - <span style="font: italic 10pt/12pt cursive;"> Amgine | t 15:51, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

 * I didn't notice the made up numbers. I am not up for some OR this week I am afraid, (but I would love to read a more neutral version of this. --InfantGorilla (talk) 17:40, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Saki - Saqib
You were conned there. Saki is trying to hide xyr shameful past. Please revert the delete template once you've checked the revision history. Full prot the page, and make a decision on this one. My phone is a little tricky to do reverts. Saki is a reincarnation of Saqib, permabanned before your time. Were it not for 'the fluffy bunny club', I'd ban him for 666 days. --Brian McNeil / talk 18:25, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh for fuck's sake, Brian, he created the exact same thing at User talk:Saki/Archive 01. Now why he wants 01 and not just 1, I haven't the slightest clue, but would you please make some effort to look beyond your own biases? C628 (talk) 19:38, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Then, I am in error, and sorry. But, this is very much what xe has done in the past. I've no problem with you swearing at me about the issue, but this is not a user I trust. To introduce an iceing of sarcasm, you would have done better to respond on my talk, then point IG at such. I'm on the road, for want of a better way to put it. I saw Saqib's edits and thought it was rather suspect. You're holding me to an absurdly high standard C, yet beung extremely forgiving with someone who has cost the project hundreds of man hours cleaning up their mess. I'm not particularly amused by that. --Brian McNeil / talk 20:15, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Brian, may I know why Tempo leave Wikinews? --Saki (talk) 20:41, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
 * C628, I guess we can "assume good intentions" of Brian's warning. Thankfully I have enough wiki experience to triple-check that deletion request before hitting the button, yet not enough to explain my "it's ok this time" decision in the summary.   --InfantGorilla (talk) 08:01, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, IG. Given Saqib's past, I was naturally suspicious with that particular request. Regrettably, Xe has posted another copyvio. -- Brian McNeil (alt. account) /alt-talk • main talk 21:20, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

Tea?
Benny the mascot (talk) 16:55, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Assistance in moving article
Hi, I wondered if you could help me. I've just written an article about an edinburgh fire but I've written the headline as starting with a number, as "3" rather that "Three". I don't know how to move articles from one headline to another so if you have the time could you please assist me? Only if you have the time of course. Thanks. FireLyte--spyre (talk) 10:05, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Done
 * 1) I am back on line, and have moved your article.
 * 2) After a few days probation period, the system will make a "Rename" command available to you (in a pull-down menu at the top right of each page, between "View history" and the search bar, if you have the default 'skin'.)
 * 3) I won't be online much in the next week or two, and Murphy's Law says I will never be online when you need help. In future, you can post requests for assistance from regular established users at the water cooler. It always helps to post a link to the exact name of a page you need help with.  If you need assistance from admins (page protection, vandal blocking, deletion and undeletion) post at the admin noticeboard WN:AAA or go to the Internet Relay Chat channel.
 * --InfantGorilla (talk) 10:45, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Thanks =) FireLyte--spyre (talk) 11:56, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Peanutbutter55
Just as a courtesy, since it was you who gave the warning, I thought I'd let you know that I reviewed the edits of and issued a straight, immediate block. Such behaviour is, I think, quite sufficiently serious to warrant obliteration on the spot. I seem to be running into you a lot right now... Blood Red Sandman (Talk)   (Contribs) 13:59, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

 * That sounds fine. Thanks for cleaning up the orphan comments page, sorry I missed that.  Seemed to me appropriate to deal with the trash, rather than the creator.  In absence of any guidance at WN:BLOCK I went by Wikipedia where, as I understand it, block requests are only entertained for current ongoing vandalism. --InfantGorilla (talk) 14:11, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

 * The blocking policy is loosely worded, although it guides us in a similar direction to WP. However, it does explicitly allow discretion to be used by admins; I feel this is a case where such discretion is appropriate. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 14:15, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Notice for my talk page watchers
I will not be online much over the next few weeks. Please take a look at my to do list for some behind the scenes tasks that seem interesting or useful. If you start one of them, please strike it off my list.

I'll be passing through from time to time.

--InfantGorilla (talk) 14:24, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Deleted images
I generally visit #wikimedia-commons and request an admin undelete the image long enough for me to move it to en.WN. They're usually willing to do so. - <span style="font: italic 10pt/12pt cursive;"> Amgine | t 15:53, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Good thinking. In this case the deletion reason, "Missing essential information: source and/or license:"  means that it probably wouldn't be acceptable here either.  For some reason I don't understand, BRS just nuked the redlink. --InfantGorilla (talk) 16:12, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Teachers at Australian school shocked at no warning over job losses
Can you review it please?--RockerballAustralia c 07:24, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

 * You are lucky I don't have time to review it. Although I liked your earlier article, I would possibly have failed this one, as I am not sure the statement from the union rep to the SCD is a newsworthy event in itself.  BTW, there is a spelling error in the first para.

 * "turned on his heel and left. He didn’t take a single question" is a shocking management style in this century, in my opinion.

 * --InfantGorilla (talk) 15:23, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Re - Boy dies in swimming pool
Hi InfantGorilla. Just to let you know, if what is on the page on this article is right, I'm picking up the swimming pool incident - it's not a test edit, and if what the young lady has typed on there is correct, we may just have found our youngest contributor. :) BarkingFish (talk) 18:52, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Just as well I left it for a few hours. I deleted personal info. --InfantGorilla (talk) 19:44, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

German WP comment
You have an answer. --Matthiasb (talk) 11:23, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Irish footballer Eamonn O'Brien undergoes knee operation
Hi,

I removed the tags and placed the article under development to try and save it but relised that with minimum sources that some ships have to go down. Feel free to revert the edit.

Cheers, Chandlerjoeyross (talk) 21:50, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Re: Template:Notnews-gossip
Just a polite note to let you know I've replied to your comments about the template at this page - feel free to provide further feedback if you wish :) BarkingFish (talk) 00:04, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Gunman holds hostage in U.S. television station offices
I notice you de-flagged the discussion once the article was archived. The outstanding question there is how to address (such as composing a correction notice) the removal of text that was necessary more than 24 hours after publication. If that was not clear, then I should start and flag a new thread that makes it clear. If it was clear, then I'd like to understand better your position on that question. --Pi zero (talk) 14:15, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

 * I didn't take a position. I assumed the consensus was that your action was correct: you made the correction without a correction notice.  If anyone disagreed with your action and wanted to post a correction they had time enough, nearly a week, to make their views known.
 * The potentially misleading statement was in place for 20 hours after it was sighted. A correction notice would certainly be appropriate, but not absolutely essential.
 * Was there a complaint? If so, please make that clear, and don't hesitate to post a correction notice.  The community seems to take little notice of flag.
 * --InfantGorilla (talk) 15:32, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

List of flagged pages

 * Does the list of flagged pages appear anywhere other than tucked off in the most remote corner of the Newsroom? I'm wondering where else we might also put it, to increase its visibility.  --Pi zero (talk) 20:36, 13 September 2010 (UTC)

 * That is the only place I have seen the list. I think it would be a useful tool if it was more visible.  It was packed with stale flags until a few months ago when someone diligently cleaned them up. --InfantGorilla (talk) 11:04, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Pedobear
Are you free to review the article? I'm too involved, having made a major assault on POV problems. It may need a little more POV cleanup yet. If not, well, it can wait until tonight and not quite go stale. Blood Red Sandman (Talk)   (Contribs) 15:21, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I am not free. I can't really make head or tail of the newsworthiness or verifiability of this one anyway.  I think a change of headline might help: Tulsa TV news retracts incorrect report that California costumed Pedobear was 'Registered Sex Offender' (?)  Kevyn Jacobs's apparent involvement in the retraction should be mentioned.
 * --InfantGorilla (talk) 15:32, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Admin and 'stuff'
Get your ass over to RfP, and self-nom for admin. You deserve it, and clearly have the project's best interests at heart.

While you're there, I'd ask you to think over a more vexatious issue; would you nom BloodRedSandman for 'crat? Yes, a few weeks shy of his 18th; but, I only want to see people in that position who can-do reporting-wise. You're heading that way, Iain has already made it & served his time.

Might catch you in IRC later. Today is, regrettably, laundry day. This social housing investigation is quite draining, but not found any used needles in the bathroom recently. --Brian McNeil / talk 10:25, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

 * I is already admin. (You voted for me!)
 * BRS is under 18? I thought he was 'crat already.  Will deal with later.
 * --InfantGorilla (talk) 14:43, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your efforts with my news story. It is very much appreciated.--Thegiantrodent (talk) 13:48, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

re:Malakas
please give me some time and donot delete the article, i will modify it to my best. Anikingos (talk) 10:56, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

Open letter
I have a few days of very low activity, and yet again an overemotional drama spreads across the wiki. (This is a coincidence.)

Thanks, ShakataGaNai, for saying what should have been obvious: "Now everyone go take a break, not a request." I hope this is the first step to a rapid and overdue de-escalation.

I'll put the kettle on.

--InfantGorilla (talk) 08:19, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Hate to do this
But could you please examine these edits in light of WN:E? - <span style="font: italic 10pt/12pt cursive;"> Amgine | t 06:12, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Out of context, this is an interesting observation (and, I feel, a misunderstanding) similar to discussions we have frequently had on our water cooler. (Errors as presented have also been a cause of several failed reviews and at least one retractions that I initiated.)

 * In context, it sounds like sour grapes, and one user should be reminded of the dispute resolution policy.

 * This should stop now, but I fear it won't, and until all involved users get the point of dispute resolution and of etiquette, they will continue heading towards community sanctions.

 * --InfantGorilla (talk) 06:30, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Bah, that's because it wasn't the edits I wanted to mention. Was too sleepy. these were the ones I was referring to, and which I found troubling by WN:E. - <span style="font: italic 10pt/12pt cursive;"> Amgine | t 14:16, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

 * The edit also retracted quite a nasty comment. Overall, an unpleasant violation of WN:E, but imho not a blocking offence. --InfantGorilla (talk) 20:31, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * <grin> Good. I'm glad you're not a United Stater; we're rather a bit more sensitive to lynching-related images. - <span style="font: italic 10pt/12pt cursive;"> Amgine | t 20:38, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
 * In context, I think Wikinews deserves that kind of abuse. (The image wasn't of lynching but of execution.  But I don't want to see that image on a talk page again, ever.)
 * To our credit, the regular wikinewsies have stopped responding, and the troll and xyr allies have also gone quiet.
 * Lets hope for a calmer resolution of the dispute, though I fail to see that there remains a locus for the dispute, as both the block and the page protection have been lifted, and I think from here on we should ignore or revert both repeated requests for persons to explain their actions, and accusations of posses.
 * --InfantGorilla (talk) 09:55, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Your thoughts about [ this]? --Pi zero (talk) 23:42, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, at least the tooltip doesn't name Brian this time. - <span style="font: italic 10pt/12pt cursive;"> Amgine | t 23:54, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

(An arb and a former admin are asking my thoughts. Why is that?)  For what it is worth, the hanging man on the user page offends me, but not as much as seeing it on a talk page. My opinion is that admins should have a finger hovering over the block button, but they are unlikely to need it, as all involved should no know better than to escalate this further. --InfantGorilla (talk) 13:40, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

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Thread:Comments:NASCAR driver Jimmie Johnson becomes first time father/Comments from feedback form - "THIS IS NOT NEWS!"

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Comments:CNN journalist fired for controversial Twitter message

Talk about freedom of speech! I can't believe that such thing happens in America. I would be more happy to believe it happening in a backwards country, where there is no intellectual freedom. But, hey, every country apparently seems to have a "right" way of thinking, and punishes anyone who seems to challenge that received wisdom.

I think her comments were not exactly inflammatory, especially considering that she knew the fellow personally, and had been impressed with his work towards women's rights and more freedoms in the region.

Also, I don't think it serves anyone to fire journalists. It creates a climate where our opinions are used to oppress us. Would you want a schoolchild punished for praising Christopher Columbus? Even if you were a Native American, would you still wish to punish someone for echoing a sentiment that may not be well thought through, or informed from an opinion of innocence. I think it's just horrible that she's been fired.

Finally, what's the point of pointing fingers? All the parties involved in the conflict generally use some form of collective punishment, to the detriment of the people there. I believe in peace.

 * This kind of reporting is what I stop by to read on Wkinews. ~


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User talk:Olivia32~enwikinews

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Olivia32. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Olivia32~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:19, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:35, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

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Your questions were well thought out and at no time did I find any bias or problems. In fact, I quite enjoyed your interview. Kudos.


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CLEVELAND WILL WIN THE NBA TITLE BEFORE LEBRON. GO CAVS!


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Thank you.


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UK police involved in stand-off with gunman Raoul Moat

July 9, 2010 A major police operation is in progress in the United Kingdom town of, , in relation to the search for the 37-year-old gunman. A police cordon has been set up around riverside allotments in which Moat was thought to have been hiding, around 200 metres from the town centre. Police are negotiating with a man near the riverbank where the operation is taking place, who has them locked in a stand-off by holding a gun to his own head. Police are said to be moving away from the scene, and it is speculated that the incident may be coming to an end. A cordon remains established in the immediate vicinity of the incident and a 10 mile air exclusion zone has also been implemented. The following roads are closed or have restriction: "High Street, Church Street, Providence Lane, Bridge Street, Town Foot, and Brewery Lane". The North East Ambulance Service is on standby in case of casualties.

Police have confirmed the person matches the description of Moat, who is wanted for the shooting of his ex-girlfriend, her new partner (whom he killed), and a police officer. Moat has repeatedly made threats to the police, and to the public at large.

Local residents have been told to "go home and lock the door" for their "own safety". People who attempt to leave their homes in the nearby area are ordered to go back inside by armed police officers. Armed police are on the scene, and an ambulance was seen to arrive. Residents have made reports of snipers by the riverside, with guns pointing at a man who they believe to be Moat. Residents also report that Moat is holding a gun (which has been described as looking like a sawn-off shotgun) to his neck. Negotiators are reported to be standing no more than 21 feet from Moat. There are also unconfirmed reports that the "best friend" of Moat, a Tony Laidler, has been admitted inside the cordon to assist with the negotiations. Food and water has been delivered to the suspect.

The footballer Paul Gascoigne is also present, outside the cordon, in Rothbury, claiming to be a friend of Moat. Gascoigne, on local radio, stated his intentions: "I jumped in a taxi with broken ribs and brought some food for him, lager. I know he won't shoot me."