text:
Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous/Archive/8

=Up to December 10=

Searchable image repository
I can not locate a searchable image repository where the wikinews contributor can enter a keyword and find the list of possible images. I realize Wikimedia Commons is the image page but I find that site very cumbersome to navigate. In addition, it is often the case that an image found in wikipedia can not be used in wikinews (the graphic does not work). Suggestions appreciated. --Psusen 12:27, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Regarding images stored on WP: If the image has a free license, you can upload it to the commons and then insert it into an article here simply by using [[Image:Filename.jpg]] . If it is usable under Fair Use (note that our criteria differ from WP here, see Fair_use) you can upload it here using Upload fair media located at the left of your screen under toolbox and then insert it the same way as described above. --Deprifry | +T+ 12:44, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * goto http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Special:Search?ns6=1&search=image&fulltext=Search change the search box (at the bottom) to what you want to search for. This seems to work for all local and some commons images. for commons you can generally find things by just doining a normal Search on commons. If your loooking for a specific image goto http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?ns0=1&ns6=1&ns9=1&ns11=1&ns12=1&ns14=1&search=breaking.png&fulltext=Search and change the box at the bottom to what your looking for.

 * Images on wikipedia don't automaticly work here because we're seperate from them. However if the image has a little box on the IDP (click on image) saying this is an image from wikimedia commons. see its description page... then you can automaticly use it. If it says  A version of this image is avalible at commons under name image.png then you can use the image that is said in the image:image.png field. If it says something like This image has been uploaded to wikinews (en) under name: n:Image.png. you can use the named image minus the n: prefix.

 * If this doesn't have any one of those, you need to upload it as said above. Remember that free images goes to commons (i.e. Public domain, GFDL, CC-By ect.) and fair use images (ie Logos, Publicity photo's not released under another free license, money, ect) go to the local special:upload. If your not sure about where an image goes, don't be afraid to ask. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 00:28, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

p.s. You need to be logged in to upload an image. accounts to commons are different then wikinews accounts (in that you need to make another one, otherwise their the same. ussually people use the same name. ) —Bawolff ☺☻ 00:30, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Seeking and using opinions from experts in articles
I'm interested in comments from the community on this article, and specifically the quote at the bottom from Dr Lynch. I used the "Find An Expert database" on the University of New South Wales website to find an academic who was registered as willing to provide comments to the media, then emailed him the other quotes from the article and asked his opinion. What does everyone think about this type of original reporting? Does the opinion of experts/academics have a place in Wikinews articles? - Borofkin 23:16, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Absolutely! I totally encourage it. I think that this kind of reporting is what could give Wikinews an independent voice and create true citizen reporters — not just rehashers of other peoples' research. I've tried this approach before with Ethiopia plans to expand country's Internet access and I was really happy with the additional perspective it added to the story. -- IlyaHaykinson 06:04, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

blogs or wiki in printed newspaper
The blog post Collaborative Newspaper Column - Wiki-style? claims that "Tech editor of the International Herald Tribune seems open to publishing a column of blog-generated ideas."

Wouldn't that be interesting? --DavidCary 18:02, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Portals
What is the status of Portals? I have been maintaining a portal-like entity at Australia, and I've started to produce some associated documents such as Original reporting in Sydney. There is also the Australian discussion page, which is not used much but hopefully will be in the future. The problem is that if I create a page underneath Australia, it appears in the developing stories list. Should I move the whole thing to the Portal namespace? - Borofkin 03:14, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Any article in development should be listed in developing stories, even if it is focused in a local venue. There was a discussion earlier to use Category:Publish local for local-only type stories, as opposed to using Category:Local only and then excluding articles in that category from showing up on the main page. I'm still not sure what ended up happening with that.

 * On the other hand, a portal's subpages should not be showing up in the developing stories list. That's why portals should be placed in the Portal: namespace, so the subpage will be Portal:Australia/Some_subpage, and not show up in the developing list. Creating a redirect (to the portal or the subpage) in the main namespace will make sure people can find your page, and it will not be listed. Give it a try! - Amgine 09:25, 11 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Keep in mind that I'm on neither side of the Neutralizer v. Amgine-and-crew dispute, and that this may incriminate you even further. :) —M ESSED R OCKER (talk) 05:49, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Ok Messedrocker. Thanks. Neutralizer 05:55, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I think that those of us on either side of the Portals dispute ran out of energy (and it wasn't even half as long as the current dispute, which shows how weak we were!), but I was all for it, so please carry it on! Personally, I did come round to the view that Local only isn't necessary for local stories while Wikinews needs its content and that these help promote Portals, but I don't know if anyone else objected to that too. Guess it's probably up to the discretion of those running the portals in the end and they're not too hard to keep an eye on ClareWhite 11:45, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm not really interested in creating "Local only" stories, because quite frankly Australia has been ignored for far too long, and it's time the rest of the world started paying attention to how damn good we are (government and evil corporations excepted). Seriously but, I'm just interested in the portal-specific administrative pages, and Amgine has answered this question, I believe. - Borofkin 00:37, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Does size matter?
The article Hundreds of thousands rally in Australia against IR legislation is now over 1600 words. Do we have any standards for how long an article should be? This strikes me as being far too long, and some of my non-Wiki friends said that they thought it was a great article, but confessed that they didn't read all of it. So, what to do? Try to trim it down, or split it into separate articles? Or something else? - Borofkin 00:39, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

 * My personal view is no (also, hi, haven't posted in awhile). I figure a well researched, well documented article is ALWAYS better than a short one. In essence, a article that's well done raises our credibility - we don't need to be a tabloid. Lyellin 19:22, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I definitely agree with you there. I suppose we just need to use appropriate sections and organise articles well, so readers can choose to skip bits that they aren't interested in. - Borofkin 22:35, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, there is a lot of information in that article. But it was an unprecedented event in Australian history. The article needs to be so large to cover the whole country. I too would prefer to see the article remain in its entirety. Each section's heading makes it easy to skip/read to the parts you want to consume. It was an exciting and successful collaboration. --elliot_k 12:49, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I do think huge articles can be intimidating to readers, but breaking them up into sections definitely helps. There is also a "cost/benefit" analysis that goes into the mind of the reader..."Do I care about that topic enough to read all this material ?"

 * So, for articles about very important items, more length is appropriate. However, a ten page article on Daylight Savings Time wouldn't be read by anyone.  Also, in many cases of long articles, much of the material could be moved into Wikipedia and linked to from the article.

 * An example of how NOT to do things is the CNN model, where they seem to recycle old paragraphs from similar news stories again and again, whenever a similar story comes out. For example, an article on the latest bombing in Iraq will repeat all the info on bombings and other news from Iraq in the previous week.  This is just annoying to those who have already read the material (back when it really was news).  And for those who didn't care to read it when it was news, they certainly don't want to read it now. StuRat 16:43, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Yeah I agree with you Elliot. The sections make it easy for people to skip parts that they don't want to read, so I don't reckon the size is a problem. - Borofkin 23:03, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Amgine and Neutralizer Mediation is Complete
For any who are interested in reading; Neutralizer 04:08, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikimedia on the BBC
BBC News Online has a nice piece in their technology section on Wikimedia, Wikinews even gets a mention as being part of the family. See here. Brian McNeil / talk 11:02, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Great article. And one paragraph is a quote by Jimbo about Wikinews. But, they didn't link to us. Damn. --Deprifry|+T+ 11:11, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I emailed them and asked if they'd put a link up next to the Wikipedia one. :-) Brian McNeil / talk 12:26, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Not sure if thats working, but thanks a lot for writing. --Deprifry|+T+ 12:42, 20 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It bloody worked! Wohoo! Great job. --Deprifry|+T+ 17:16, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * <MrBurns> Excellent! </MrBurns> Of course, it is a pity it went on the article a little late, but you can expect in the future that Wikinews will get links from the BBC if they mention us, or something like grassroots journalism. Brian McNeil / talk 18:06, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Vote on MrMiscellanious
He is having a vote on whether people want him to stay or go at his user space. Neutralizer 12:18, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

its goooonnneee hehe. good idea to remove it--Whywhywhy 08:42, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
 * And why is this a community issue? Like I said, the poll wasn't anything that concerned the community.  So stop trying to make anything of it.  --MrMiscellanious (talk) (contribs) 12:14, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Sorry, just assumed you'd like a larger sample than just the people who go to your user page; my mistake. Neutralizer 15:52, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Do wikinews credentials have any career usage?
I have absolutely no idea so I thought I would ask to see if anyone knows whether wikinews accreditation or positions of authority and trust can be/are used on resumes? Neutralizer 15:52, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I assume by positions of trust you mean adminship/stewardship? I know from that regard I don't believe I've heard of any case, or been involved in any case that it would serve any purpose whatsoever outside the wikisphere. Although occasionally friends are impressed, but that's more cause we're all geeks. Lyellin 16:33, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I would say yes, but they would carry a relatively low weight, comparable to being an editor of a school newspaper, perhaps. If you were going for a job at a small local paper, that, with some samples of your work here, might actually get you an entry level job. StuRat 00:23, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

Are we allowed to use Wikinews to promote something where we can make money?
Like this person's user page refers people to the same person's personal project; which asks for donations.

This may be perfectly legitimate; I don't know; that is why I am asking. Perhaps more of us have projects where we might get some donations that we might like to promote; although I,personally, don't think that would be good for Wikinews. Neutralizer 23:52, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't see how a link from a person's user page to a company where they work or another project they participate in is harmful. It's done quite frequently throughout the WMF projects. The user you linked to isn't asking for dontations on his user page on Wikinews (that would be bad), but rather, simply links to another project on which he's active. --Chiacomo (talk) 23:56, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Totally disagree. If somebody puts his Business phone # in the church bulletin then he's using the church bulletin to sell his stuff...he doesn't have to put his price list in the bulletin. Not to mention the attempt to pull people from wikinews is flagrant,imo. Are you saying we can all put links to our own businesses on our wikinews' user pages? Neutralizer 00:04, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I think its okay,as long as its just a small link, and they're an active contributer. If its a ten line addverstment for somebody who hasn't touched anything, thats different. By the way I like how Amgine did the layout on journawilki. Bawolff ☺☻[[image:smile.png]] 00:19, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Mmm. I've put my business phone in the church bulletin with the "(office)" following it -- 'cause that's where I can be found. If you wanna put a link to your business on your wikinews user page, feel free! I'm Neutralizer, I've been an editor since January 1, 1900 and have made more than 3,000 edits. I work at Internic. What's wrong with that? It helps us know more about you. You shouldn't however, advertise Internic all over the water cooler. If, in this particular case, the user wanted to draw editors from Wikinews, a simple link on his user page would be a poor attempt. Amgine has taken great pains to not advertise his project either here or in IRC. --Chiacomo (talk) 00:22, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Ohhh -- did you notice that the "Donation" link on the project to which you refer is a non-existent page. I think it's default text in the MediaWiki software. --Chiacomo (talk) 00:28, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I must say, that when I was in business; I wanted to steal customers AND EMPLOYEES from my competition and if there was anything legal I could do to hurt the competition, I did it. That's competition, folks. Now, perhaps this user is different but I think we should face a few facts like this is not just a contact link; it's a recruitment invitation and the place he is recruiting to appears to be his own enterprise! Online enterprises can translate into money at some point. "Great pains"??? Chiacomo, you have to be kidding! The continual use of journalwiki as his talk page was one hell of an advertisement. I certainly would have never heard of journalwiki otherwise. HA! Boy was I fooled; in going back through the old histories I noticed awhile back where someone named DV said that this user was trying to "break wikinews"...and I thought this DV must've been some kind of nut...well, whatdayaknow, I am stunned; I was really taken for a ride. Well, I've asked Eloquence and ILya to take this to the Stewards; we'll see if they think this is all peaches and cream. Neutralizer 00:48, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Neutralizer, keep in mind that I'm trying to be helpful... I'm not sure why the Stewards would care, really, as they are primarily concerned with permissions (admin, bots, etc). This is not a commercial link (any more than a link to Wikipedia or Comixpedia or anything else is). The user has previously kept his talk page on another project -- when I first joined Wikinews, I kept mine on a seperate project. Many users still do. The user has taken great pains not to advertise. He's not once mentioned it on a community discussion page, has not promoted it on user talk pages, has not promoted it on the #wikinews IRC channel. I don't know why we wouldn't want to establish a relationship with the project, however, as, unlike Wikipedia, the user's project's license is compatible with the license used here on Wikinews. This really does appear to be a non-issue -- it might also appear to some that you are attempting to discredit or attack this user in some way. Why not work on some articles instead of fostering conflict? --Chiacomo (talk) 06:32, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I think perhaps a lot of people are just naive about how advertising works. The fact that most of us now know the name "journalwiki" proves that it has been successfully advertised to the editors of this publication. Noone here knows the name of my other project because, unless I wanted them to know and advertized it in some way, why would they? No; the continual use of the journalwiki talk page even much AFTER two admins(Dan100 and Ilya) asked him during his own deadmin vote to stop it, shows that he actually has gone to great pains to continually advertise his personal project which is in direct competition to wikinews; and now his recruitment of wikinews editors has become blatant on his user page. Quite a successful launching strategy, I must say..using the primary competitor's resources and staff to facilitate the launch. In all sincerity I must say; "Congratulations; job well done." I would be taking a much more aggressive approach about this if it were anyone other than who it is; because I think if it were a new user; they'd be given an infinite block in a flash. It's only because I know how much the community trusts this user that I am being so timid in my remarks. Who of you can honestly say a new user that put the exact same statement on their user page would be allowed to keep it there? Neutralizer 14:09, 23 November 2005 (UTC))

 * Not seeing an issue with it. As long as he's not soliciting money, then there shouldn't be any difference between this link and another user linking to any other site that has a 'donation' link.  --MrMiscellanious (talk) (contribs) 01:24, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I also don't have a problem with it. I haven't really been following what Amgine has been doing with this Journowiki thing, but it's under a CC license, so in my opinion it is not competition with Wikinews. Assuming that it does start to produce articles, we can just copy 'em over here if we like 'em. - Borofkin 01:07, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Erm, yes, I haven't gotten around to removing that. I really don't want any donations over there; it's my personal charity project. (It's also a rather different project in that the articles are supposed to be built by journalism students, and so we're *not* interested in recruiting authors from Wikinews.) But feel free to continue perusing it; maybe at some point it will be ready for the public. - Amgine 06:23, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't see what the problem could be. A lot of users, also here at Wikinews, post links to their personal webpage; and some of those pages include ads. Perfectly fine IMHO. Sadly, I do get the impression that you are only picking this particular case because it says "User:Amgine" at the top of the page. --Deprifry|+T+ 12:24, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, I would be taking a much more aggressive approach about this if it were anyone other than who it is; because I think if it were a new user; they'd be given an infinite block in a flash; because it IS a commercial link. It's only because I know how much the community trusts this user that I am being so timid in my remarks. Who of you can honestly say a new user that put the exact same statement on their user page would be allowed to keep it there? Neutralizer 14:09, 23 November 2005 (UTC))

 * I can. If a new user puts a link to his non-commercial site (and Amgine's page is nc) on his user page I, and I guess pretty much everyone else here, would have no problem with that. If a new user puts a link to a commercial site in his user space, and that would be that user's only contribution to Wikinews then I might get suspicious but not over some link to a personal webproject. --Deprifry|+T+ 14:42, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

 * How does the fact that i know what journiwiki is mean its being advertised. I also know what:

and the list goes on. None of these have really been advertised (ok, maybe weak point with sisterlinks at the bottom of the main page on wikimedia projects). still seing no issue. Bawolff ☺☻ 07:00, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 * is
 * is
 * is
 * is
 * is
 * pleonasm is
 * openfacts: is

Please, can anyone explain this?
From Amgine's edit above he does not deny that he put the link on his user's page. Now the page has been reverted and he's claiming a vandal had put the link to journalwiki???? rv user page vandalism Neutralizer 20:17, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I am responding to this personal attack to remind User:Neutralizer that during the time he has been on Wikinews I have never edited my user page except to revert vandalism done to it without my consent or agreement. -  Amgine | talk 20:22, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Clarification please; so you are saying that link to journal wiki was put on your user page by a vandal yesterday?

cur) (last) 16:31, 23 November 2005 Amgine (rv user page vandalism)

(cur) (last) 17:15, 22 November 2005 216.139.111.44

If so, that begs 2 questions;

 * Why did you not mention yesterday the link was put there by a vandal? (discussion above)?

 * Why have you not blocked the vandal 216.139.111.44 ?

 * Please bear with me; I am truly trying to understand this. The community has such trust in Amgine; I just want to be clear;

1.A vandal had nothing better to do than try to help you promote your start-up

2.You responded to the situation by defending the link and not saying anything about your user page being vandalized.

3.You then reverted it (rv user page vandalism), but decided NOT to block the vandal.

Is that the truth of this? Neutralizer 20:50, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Many reasons (for me, at least) - one, most of the times the users only attack once, and they leave. Second, many times you forget.  Third, unless it's a major form of vandalism, user page modifications only warrant a informal message on the talk page.  However, I've discovered the item to be an open proxy, and according to the policy, it will be permanently banned from editing Wikinews.  --MrMiscellanious (talk) (contribs) 21:41, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes,I noticed you just blocked that user; still doesn't explain why it wasn't mentioned yesterday(the vandalism)by Amgine in the discussion above and also isn't this an odd "attack"?

"I'm most available on journowiki.org... so... if you need to talk to me, leave me a note there.I am attempting to organize a new English language edition of news, focused around open access to news creating and journalism education, and you can get involved at the Home page!"..especially since Amgine said in the above discussion that his new site is focused on students..how would the vandal know this and why would a vandal want to pretend to be Amgine to promote journalwiki? Neutralizer 22:11, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * There are many good reasons an anon would want to pretend to be an Admin. The text posted to Amgine's page was copied from his Meta user page.  --Cspurrier 16:19, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

Let the Stewards decide
I will say no more on the matter; if the Stewards see nothing wrong with the link to his personal start-up, then so be it. But please assume good faith in terms of my intentions here; I had my own business and from my perspective; this is a common "raid" on the competitor's best employees and I truly am just concerned about the overall effect on Wikinews as well. I doubt that coke would allow a pepsi promoter (or new cola promoter) to be designing coke's policies....but if this is all ok with a wiki; then please excuse this old businessman; but don't accuse me of bringing this up because of who the promoter is; you'd be 100% wrong. Neutralizer 14:26, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
 * There is nothing wrong with promoting a personal project in userspace. Unless you're linking to something that is illegal, or spam, Amgine is not violating any rules common to Wikimedia. You may note that the user page of Jimbo Wales on Wikipedia links to his personal, for-profit company. There's also no rule in Wikimedia about signatures needing to point to the current project.  -- IlyaHaykinson 03:19, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

were now found by google when you search for cc-stuff
If you search for CC stuf on google, we now appear. We didn't before. I added the metadata thing to Mediawiki:Copyright which I think should get us in that search. but its not in the cached version of this page yet. so i'm not sure if its that. But the important news is we're in.
 * Great! We are now #2 hit for the popular search string "News" and #4 for "London". Nice job. --Deprifry|+T+ 12:27, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

what? u on the the meat and potato page?
garsh darn meat and potato heads... freakin' virginians, i think they are gettin' to me. -Edbrown05 05:49, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

= November 11 =

Wikinews statistics
User:BlankVerse has some interesting statistics. When I first typed the user in the 'search' box, the page came up blank with no history tab. After selecting last 500 edits on the 'Recent changes' page, and since there aren't too many edits around here lately, I was able to locate the post here. Suddenly, I now notice the BlankVerse user_page is no longer empty.

Anyway, over a 15 day period in October, there was an average of 7 stories published per day. There was an average of 10 new user_accounts created per day over the same time period.

Are these good numbers or bad numbers?

Personally, I fear for the 'Latest news' looking something like this --> <-- that was the news.

I found the wiki_User_Page of BlankVerse worth a look. -68.232.153.54 21:50, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Well were on the topic of statistics...
We now have over 150,692 edits Bawolff ☺☻ 23:53, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

= Pre-November 11 =

Opportunity for some original reporting - United States
If anyone happens to be in the United States, there is an opportunity for some original reporting. Please see Talk:Rescuers Frustrated in LA. - Borofkin 05:12, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Just noticed we're being mirrored
Just noticed we're being mirrored: http://code0range.net/aggregator/categories/3 and http://code0range.net/aggregator/. They screw up wiki formating, but they do give us credit. It looks like they also mirror recent changes diffs.Bawolff 18:21, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

I tried to call on IRC but no response...
Hello,how can I tell the Wikinewsies about breaking news?I clicked on the contact's username and typed,but no reply came.Tdxiang 07:40, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Why not start an article yourself on the main page ? Others will likely finish it, if you provide enough info to go on. StuRat 11:39, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Eyewitness reports
What should we do with eyewitness reports posted anonymously, such as A first person account of what happened in New Orleans? We are going to see more and more of these as our profile increases. Should they be encouraged to turn their eyewitness report into an article, or should they be directed to an Eyewitness Report page, where their reports can then be used as source material for articles? - Borofkin 04:09, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I would support policy that lead to such reports becoming source material for articles rather than posting such accounts as articles themselves. Of course, if the eyewitness account can be edited to a story form, then publish away. --Chiacomo (talk) 04:30, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Note that I didn't say they should be posted as articles, I said "encouraged to turn their eyewitness report into an article". The question here is: what is the difference between a Wikinewsie doing original reporting, and an eyewitness who posts a report directly to the site? It's a fine line. An eyewitness who comes here with a story could tommorrow be a Wiki-convert. - Borofkin 04:37, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Indeed -- we could, of course, treat eyewitness accounts like interviews, and, as you suggested, include the content (where appropriate) in articles. --Chiacomo (talk) 04:42, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I suppose that's what I'm thinking. I think its appropriate to include submitted eyewitness reports in articles, as long as they are clearly identified as such. Consider Louisiana officials accused of blocking rescue volunteers, where an anonymous eyewitness report was submitted, second-hand, by a named person. Now there is no doubt that the information is unreliable, this is true of all eyewitness reports, anonymous or not. I think it is still article-worthy, as long as the source of the information is clearly identified. - Borofkin 05:45, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

We definitely should use these sort of articles as source material, with the old line, so-and-so told Wikinews. My suggestions is a template that could be added to the header of these stories, encouraging people to use it as a source for other stories, for example that particular one will be a valuable contribution to other stories. The source could then be copied to Portal namespace for the correct category and that could be the source link... i'll go and demonstrate... ClareWhite 09:02, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

 * OK, I added an Eyewitness template to that story but decided not to move it out of the main namespace yet as that would take it out of developing stories where people are most likely to see it. The template makes it clear that it is a personal account and that it won't be published as a story and encourages other editors to use it and the author to add their personal details and answer questions if required.
 * It would be bad for people to use the source as the only source for a story, but where it adds to potentially many stories it will make a very useful additional source. I think it also fulfils Borofkin's aim of encouraging people to come to Wikinews rather than simply sticking on an unfriendly tag. As the workspaces/bureaus develop in portals, I think these sort of accounts will be a very useful source of material for collaborative writers. They so need to be viewed as potentially unreliable, but I think we need ways of soliciting the views of ordinary citizens and this is a good one. Thoughts? ClareWhite 09:42, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I absolutely agree with you, ClareWhite. Eyewitness accounts tend to be highly biased.  This makes them a good source for an article, so long as they are balanced with "the other side of the story".  However, making an article with just a single eyewitness account (or all eyewitness accounts on just one side of the story) should be discouraged. StuRat 11:54, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

 * My inclination was to publish this particular story as is, because it is true citizen reporting. I don't see anything highly biased in the report. However, the fact that it is posted anonymously is very troublesome. I especially found intersting in this report the info. on the budget cut for levees and police stuff. (Edbrown05)-68.232.153.54 15:59, 7 September 2005 (UTC) siggy -Edbrown05 03:23, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

I like the idea of tagging it as an eyewitness report and moving it out of the main namespace. I'm not sure that the Portal namespace is the right place, though. Has the debate over this namespace reached a conclusion? We should certainly be encouraging people to add contact information to their eyewitness reports. - Borofkin 00:41, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I remember well the debate here about a proposal to include Editorial articles. In the end, I believe that I am correct by saying the proposal died because the Editorial content of the article would be made by a sole contributor (except for grammar, punc, etc. collaboration), but that one-person writing approach is not the wiki way. Here we face a similar dilemma, an eyewitness report is a sole person contribution.

 * Currently, the most similar thing in existence here now to a one-person writing approach is, but that is only appropriate for a trusted community contributor who can post a report with no confirming sources (an original report should not be required to have any confirming source; the author is the source with Wikinews backing).

 * When I first confronted the article being discussed here, my reaction was to put on the tag and publish it. I do not think anyone has any serious objections to the content of this particular story, and I see the disclaimer NGerda added in a template. Part of my reasoning for the  tag is because there is no other satisfactory method for giving this story the attention that I feel it warrants. Yes, I am aware it lacks some polish, but I do feel it is unreasonable to expect a motivated contributor who is not a journalist to write content that lives up to the standard Wikinews seems to be striving for.

 * If there is a way around this conundrum, it sure was not found in the previous Editorial debate. Our editor base's best judgement may be the best answer, along with combining the best of all wording found on the and  and  templates into one, tag the story, and go from there. -Edbrown05 03:23, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

The Portal namespace didn't reach a proper conclusion no, but the proposal is sort of rolling on and some people have started using it. In this particular case, I would be against putting the Original Reporting tag on the story because, although it sounds very plausible, unless we had many more key details we just can't rely on it. That's why I would much rather see the bulk of it used as background and views from 'an evacuee from New Orleans' (in the absence of more detail like names) rather than being a published story in its own right. We could be on a slippery slope if we get madder 'eyewitness' reports that feel they can publish in that form. But yes, combining with other tags (I created a tag too for local-only reporting which might have only one source or none) and case-by-case judgments is definitely the best way to go ClareWhite 08:42, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Server speed
What's up with the slow server response time? It's been a real dog now for days. -Edbrown05 16:08, 12 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah but it is a Wikimedia-wide problem. I just hope the new Yahoo servers that were promised go online soon. --Deprifry 16:49, September 12, 2005 (UTC)
 * What happened to the 210 000 some dollars they just got from the fundraiser? by the way supposably whats happening to the servers is supposed to be on open facts,(to my understanding) but nothing other then Slow has been reported their recently. Bawolff 23:58, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Sunday night, 11:00 pm EDT, and I can manicure a fistful of fingers (exageration) in the time it takes to get a page loaded on Wikinews. I NEVER contemplate a manicures! Whaa, whaa, blaa. A 'server' is just that, except here. -Edbrown05 02:54, 3 October 2005 (UTC)

Streamlining New Orleans
We have got to have some serious editing and thinning out of all the developing New Orleans stories. I've made a start this morning but I've got no more time. That's what I've been doing anyway :) ClareWhite 10:13, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Stories that are simply representing one bit of info or point of view should be incorporated into other stories to give balance and synthesis
 * Eyewitness accounts should (if people are happy to do so) be moved rather than deleted: I've started a page for this at Portal:Disasters and accidents/Eyewitness accounts. These are valuable and useful accounts, though not news.

Science of Champagne Bubbles Explained
We have Science of Champagne Bubbles Explained and Science of champagne bubbles explained. Can some one delete the first? -- user:zanimum
 * I listed it on WN:DR. Bawolff 22:25, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

Another Mirror
we are being mirrored by http://www.brujula.net/english/noticias/wiki/ also. Bawolff 23:52, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

What's your motivation?
So, I'm curious - what draws people to start writing, and contributing to wikinews? Anybody want to start a conversation about this? Rainbird

 * Putting thoughts into words, into publication, is a leap. Do you wanna? -04:58, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Well, I find that when I start writing on the net, and I meet people - I'm drawn into things... Ed. Who knows? I just wondered - are most people here involved in a journalism career - or do they plan to be? What are the various ethics people have in regards to how they present their writing here? Is your goal to change your society, in some way, Ed? That's the inference I hear, when you speak about putting thoughts and words into publication. Rainbird

 * Who's Ed? - 17:48, 9 October 2005

 * I contribute because I have an area that I have spent a lot of time researching and the mass media often misunderstands it or makes errors in their reporting of it. So this is an opertunity to help make an accurate media outlet exist.  It's also a step toward greater freedom of the press. 84.203.7.190 13:37, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Deleted Article on Iraqi Prisoner Abuse
There was an article on further allegations of Iraqi prisoner abuse that appeared in Wikinews on Monday or so. Due to a highly inflammatory and unsubstaniated quote, it was quickly moved to the "in progress" column, and then completely disappeared. Although the particular article probably should have been deleted, I was under the impression that the US government was attempting to block release of further documents. But I can find no mention of this on Wikinews. What happened to this issue?...Tim

 * I think admins need a more consistent policy on deletion. For instance I listed a speedy delete 2 days ago and it has yet to go. ישראל&UN and UNHCR are criminals and mafias. While an article I listed for copyvio was deleted that night.Police Investigate Mail and Guardian & Protesters storm Bali jail, demand death for bombers (which really isn't fair as it says in the text of the warning the person has 3 days from listing to change it or it would be deleted, this was deleted that day). I thought speeedy deletes were high priority deletes and deletion requests were left for a discussion. Another issue that I've noticed is no-one checks the copy vio page in 3 days when they're supposed to either delete it or replace it with the /temp page. I can't see if their is a system in place for admin's, maybe you guy's need a to-do list of article's to check and one's to delete. Another idea would be an automated message on the page of the user who created it telling them why it was deleted.Flying Canuck 15:45, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

All of our admins are volunteers so most things are done when they are gotten to :). I have deleted both of the pages you requested, the fastest way to get something like those deleted is ask in our IRC channel (the Real-time chat link at the top) myself or another admin are on there most of the time. The big reason the copyvio got deleted faster is without the dr or delete tags it gets displayed in the developing stories list on the main age so the admins see it sooner. Also our copyvio policy was recently revised allowing admins to now delete copy and paste copyvios on sight, most. The idea of an automated message while a good one, has been found to be technically impossible by our developers due to the large number of users who could have potentially edited a page. --Cspurrier 15:52, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Also, it would be helpful when marking articles for speedy deletion to put something in the edit summary saying "speedy delete" or even simply "speedy" -- that way an admin can simply scan Recent Changes for problems (which is what most of us do anyway, I think). Most people do this already. --Chiacomo (talk) 14:18, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

If I were a CIA agent
If I were a CIA agent, I would make angry left-wing stories about nothing in particular. There is no point surpressing the truth - this is the internet, but it is possible to discredit the truth. The best way to discredit somebody is to laugh at them. And satire is a pretty cheap laugh.

If wikinews looks like a 2nd rate blog, or is bogged down with flame wars then nobody but the conspiracy nuts will take it seriously. Especially not the average voter.

Just a thought. Wisty 12:50, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Totally wrong about the "truth" not being suppressed on the internet. Would you believe me if I said a CNN poll found that 97% of Americans do not feel that the elected politicians in Washington represent them? Doesn't that mean that the "truth" is that the US government has been effectively hijacked? Where will you find that simple truth in a credible internet location? If the only voting choices are tweedle dee and tweedle dumb..then,what does it matter what the voter thinks? Neutralizer 21:16, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Media polls? Eck.  Online polls?  Eck, eck.  For all who say that FOX is followed by a certain group of people, they seem to be ignoring CNN's base completely.  --Mrmiscellanious 21:19, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm not saying anyone is wrong as such. The sad fact is that the wiki model doesn't work very well for news. You can't always get people with massively different points of views agree on an article in a newsworthy timeframe. To get it to work, you need to get the article ~80% NPOV (as in agreed upon by the right-wing and left-wing editors) in the first edit. That may mean you sacrifice the truth a little, but it is better to give a bit away then not have the article printed. That is the price of writing on wikinews. Wikipedia can have a better look at the issue, because they don't have time constraints. That is why wikipedia ends up printing conspiracy theories (see their Conflicting Theories on Katirina page), while wikinews does not. And the CIA would rather rig wikipedia than wikinews ;-)

You don't have to leave anything out, just relax the statements a bit. For example "Republicans suspected of rigging vote machines" is just not NPOV. "Republican supporter supplied faulty polling machines" is better. I don't like it, you don't like it and MrM doesn't like it, so it must be fair ... and people are more likely to believe the second statement. Get the article printed first, with the bare facts. The readers should be smart enough to make up their own minds.

And there is usually better news to be found than scandals in the Republican party. Wisty 03:36, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

"Conspiracy Nuts"
Where/when I grew up; one of the labels that was popular to throw around was " n_gg_r lover". It was quite an effective strawman term to use to discount the points made be anyone who challenged our government's segregation rules and laws. And, in fact, usually the use of the label was accompanied by laughter and ridicule; something like; "Oh, don't pay no attention to Jack, he ain't nothin' but a stupid n_gg_r lover". In fact an elected governor of Georgia, Lester Maddox made quite a lot of money selling pick handles known colloquially as "n_gg_r beaters" to use against any black person who tried to get service in a "white" location. As an aside, Zell Miller was Maddox's chief of staff. Anyway, the point is, negative labels about a person or group have never been thrown around by people who help improve the world, in my opinion. Someone who acknowledges the role of conspiracies in history and within today's events is simply not an ostrich. Plus, to be consistent, one would have to think that only a "conspiracy nut" would believe that the 9/11 attack was carried out by a gang of conspirators who secretly conspired to hijack airplanes and fly them into the WTC, Pentagon and White House....now that's what I call a "conspiracy theory"; but that doesn't make it funny or false. Neutralizer 23:49, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure what this message says, including why there is an unnecessary use of vulgar terms. --Mrmiscellanious 00:23, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm saying that negative slurs against individuals or groups are always a bad thing to do; slurs like n_gg_r lover, or conspiracy nut, or commie liberal or redneck conservative ...they are all offensive and divisive. The less offensive but equally as divisive approach is to categorize someone's point of view with a discountive strawman term such as "Conspiracy theory" or "liberal agenda" or "conservative agenda". Neutralizer 02:58, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * So how does indirectly accusing editors of being "government agents" (which the community seems to think is a bad characterization -- a slur) differ from these other slurs? --Chiacomo (talk) 03:00, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Good point,Chiacomo, I don't know why the community thinks "government agent" is a slur; I don't. I think it's a perfectly acceptable line of work. They have been embraced at Defcon and, if there are any around, should be embraced here as well like Borofkin and Amgine have said. My only concern is that ifsomeone is (or in the future comes)on the job here (with the task of delaying/suppressing any stories which may report western government misdeeds) and is putting in 40 hours per week and is an administrator to boot; that puts a lot of pressure on the volunteers to counterbalance that amount of effort. But I truly do think its naive to think our government would not be looking at citizen journalism very,very hard. Once troops and other "insiders" begin writing stories on Wikinews complete with embarassing video/documents; people who are doing and condoning bad actions will be exposed on an hourly basis...and governments who thrive on secrecy and fear will be in trouble. Neutralizer 13:06, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Your hometown sounds to have been a pretty nasty environment at times. Having grown up with people who openly talked about supporting the BNP, I can sympathise. I agree that that there's nothing intrinsically "nutty" about acknowledging the existence of conspiracies - and that in any case we shouldn't be calling anyone a "nut" here. And I agree that if you want to be strict about these things, it's true that any allegation of conspiracy is a "conspiracy theory".

 * To pick up the example of 9/11 - I guess you're right that we are, strictly speaking, accepting a "conspiracy theory" when we believe that the attacks were pre-planned in secret. But given the facts it's also, in my view, the simplest explanation. The contra-thesis - ie. that despite all the reports in the media, 911 was either some kind of accident or a completely spontaneous act, or that they didn't happen at all, seems to imply an even more complicated conspiracy. In fact, I can't think of any explanation of 9/11 that wouldn't involve some kind of "conspiracy", somewhere along the line!

 * Where there's a problem is where people start alleging a conspiracy without good evidence - and/or where a much simpler explanation (Occam's razor) would explain things equally well. There's an interesting article on the issue here: http://www.hyperhistory.org/index.php?option=displaypage&Itemid=718&op=page. Wikipedia also does a good analysis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory. And I do think it's ok to laugh at some of these things (my particular favourite is the one about the British royal family secretly being a race of alien lizards who run the world from windsor castle and eat babies...)

-- Rcameronw 08:39, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * My personal favorite is that there is a radical fundamentalist moslem movement to take over much of the world (put forth in Bush's last major speech)"from Indonesia to Spain"; and in second place is the "axis of evil" theory...which brings in a spiritual element("evil") to the fray. Neutralizer 13:16, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree, and sometimes feel that the "global Islamic conspiracy" theory has elements in common with earlier alleged conspiracies about another major monotheistic group of people, but I still think the one about the lizards is funnier... - Rcameronw 20:24, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

DeLay article deleted?
I just found a copy of the DeLay arrest warrant that I wanted to link to the article reporting on it. The article needed some work and more sources. But now I cannot find the article any more. Is it possible that it has been deleted? If so, where do delted articles go and how can I view the history of deleted articles?--vonbergm 05:10, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

 * moving your request to new section. Looking for your answer. - Amgine / talk 05:12, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Found it. Article Arrest warrant issued for Tom DeLay - Amgine / talk 05:15, 20 October 2005 (UTC)


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File talk:Wikinewscountryoftheweek.PNG

I'm a bit colour-blind, and I must say that this map is a nightmare for colour-blind people to understand. Can it be made with a scale of decreacing shades of a single colour? (ex: "25+" would be dark blue, "0" would be white, and anything in between would be gradual shades of light blue?) Or perhaps in black and white? --Munchkinguy 17:57, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: File talk:Wikinewscountryoftheweek.PNG


text:
Irish Government sends team of officials in hunt for Journalist

October 20, 2005

The Irish Minister for Foreign Affairs Mr. Dermot Ahern has announced that he will send a team of five officials to Iraq to secure the release of kidnapped journalist Mr Rory Carroll.

The team will be lead by Antoin Mac Unfraidh, the former Ambassador to Iraq and will liase with the Irish Government's contacts in Iraq.

Officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs say they have been working through the night to try to gather information about Mr Carroll’s whereabouts.

Brian Cowen, the minister for Finance, acting on behalf of the Taoiseach said "I call on anybody who has any influence in that area to assist. We are trying to do all we can through our contacts".

The Taoiseach Bertie Ahern himself told BBC News that he hoped the kidnappers would bear in mind he was "an Irish person not involved in any way" with the Iraqi conflict. "We in fact granted him a passport in Irish, in our own language, in order to ensure that he would use this in such a way that to emphasise his Irishness in cases of difficulty."

Chairman of the Irish Anti-War coaliton said that he was "entirely innocent of any crime against the Iraqi people", adding: "No cause will be served by keeping him in captivity or harming him in any way."

Carrolls editor at the Guardian Alan Rusbridger issued a statement saying that "He is in Iraq as a professional journalist - and he's a very good, straight journalist whose only concern is to report fairly and truthfully about the country. We urge those holding him to release him swiftly - for the sake of his family and for the sake of anyone who believes the world needs to be kept fully informed about events in Iraq today."

All sides of Political debte in Ireland expressed condemnation of the abduction and support for the Governments efforts to secure the release of the 33 year old Journalist from The Guardian.


text:
Newspaper editor shot dead in Iraq

October 20, 2005

The International Federation of Journalists today reported that an Iraqi journalist has been shot dead in Baghdad by unknown assailants. Mohammad Harun Hassan was editor of the Nabdh Al Shabeb Newspaper, and Executive Secretary of an Iraqi trade union, the Iraqi Journalists Syndicate.

According to the IFJ, Harun Hassan is the 100th media worker to be killed since March 2003.

Moaid Al Lamy, a board member of the union, told the IFJ that Harun Hassan had been critical of a number of political parties and some other editors.

"We believe this is a despicable attempt to weaken the syndicate and to try to kill off hopes for strong and independent professional journalism in Iraq", Al Lamy said.

The news comes a day after the kidnapping of Irish journalist Rory Carroll, who had been working as the Baghdad correspondent of the London-based Guardian newspaper.

title: Newspaper editor shot dead in Iraq


text:
Spain issues arrest warrant for three U.S. soldiers accused of killing two journalists in 2003

October 20, 2005

A Spanish judge has issued an international arrest warrant for 3 U.S. soldiers whose tank fire killed a Spanish journalist, Jose Couso, and a Ukrainian cameraman in a Baghdad hotel on April 8, 2003. Judge Santiago Pedraz issued the warrant on Wednesday for the arrests of Sgt. Shawn Gibson, Capt. Philip Wolford and Lt. Col. Philip de Camp. The judge hopes that the three will be extradited to Spain to face charges of "murder" and a "crime against the international community".

Pedraz resorted to issuing the warrant after the United States government ignored requests to send documents pertaining to the case as well as a request to send a legal team to question the soldiers. He said that because of the lack of cooperation in the matter, extradition was "the only effective measure to ensure the accused are made available to Spanish judicial authorities."

Jose Couso, a cameraman with Spain's Telecinco network, died at the Palestine Hotel as United States forces moved through to take control of the area. A lawyer working for the man's family told CNN that she doubted the warrant would have any effect. According to her, the United States probably will not extradite the men to face charges and there is little chance Spain can arrest them if they do not leave the US.

Additionally, Spanish news agencies have reported that the National Court prosecutor's office announced later Wednesday that it would appeal the arrest warrant on the grounds that Judge Pedraz has no jurisdiction in the case.

United States State Department officials have commented in the past that they do not plan to extradite the three men. "I just cannot imagine how any U.S. soldier can be subject to some kind of foreign proceeding for criminal liability when he is in a tank in a war zone as part of an international coalition," a U.S. State Department official, requesting anonymity, said in June.


text:
Publishers seek injunction against Google Print

October 20, 2005 A number of publishers represented by the trade union group Association of American Publishers (AAP) filed an injuction in U.S. District Court in New York on Wednesday to stop Google from moving forward with plans for its Print Library Project.

The current situation between the publishing industry and Google requires that copyright holders notify the search engine if they do not want works to appear on the internet in full by November 1. Where requests by copyright holders exist, the search result will display only a snippet of the text and a link to where users can buy a hard copy. Google denies it is violating U.S. copyright law.

Negotiations broke down when Google rejected a proposal by AAP to use ISBN.

Parties to the injunction want to implement a system where a listing of permissible works and books is populated by the discretion of the publisher or author. By default, all other copyrighted content would be excluded.

Google offers this explanation of how Google Print works: "Just do a search on the Google Print homepage. When we find a book whose content contains a match for your search terms, we'll link to it in your search results. Click a book title and you'll see the page of the book that has your search terms, along with other information about the book and 'Buy this Book' links to online bookstores (you can view the entirety of public domain books or, for books under copyright, just a few pages or in some cases, only the title’s bibliographic data and brief snippets). You can also search for more information within that specific book and find nearby libraries that have it." Plaintiffs involved in the case are McGraw-Hill, Pearson PLC, Penguin Group, Simon & Schuster, Inc. and John Wiley & Sons. Recovery of court costs are being sought, but no punitive damages.


text:
Talk:Spain issues arrest warrant for three U.S. soldiers accused of killing two journalists in 2003

U.S. government acknowledges these soldiers killed the journalist
please read the sources before changing titles Neutralizer 20:59, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * indeed even the U.S. says they shot at the hotel, so saying they killed him is simply the truth. a little more reasoning behind your actions would be useful. 130.89.166.46 21:42, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * "Innocent until found guilty". We do not take sides - what you can report on is the reporter's death and the suspicion of the soldiers being the cause of that.  --Mrmiscellanious 21:44, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * if someone just admits its clear in my opinion, that isn't taking sides, that just reporting the information. 130.89.166.46 21:54, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Its not an issue of what actions occured, everyone agrees these soldiers killed these journalists. The issue is simply who gets to look into the matter.
 * It is pretty strange that we use the phrase "accused of killing". The facts recognized by both sides are that there were innocents in the hotel, which was fired upon, and two were killed.  Whether or not this was accidental (which is the sticking point between Spain and the US) doesn't change the fact that it was a killing.  These two journalists didn't just die of old age. - McCart42 (talk) 13:28, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Spanish speaker
Can someone who speaks (reads) Spanish get some sources from Spain in on this? I am sure that there is a lot more information out there.--vonbergm 23:25, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * can't spot anything at http://news.google.com/news?hl=es&region=es&topic=n .. strange --Yonghokim 16:21, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Nice
I like this oddity of Spanish law that "a crime committed against a Spaniard abroad can be prosecuted here if it is not investigated in the country where it is committed." It may not result in extradition, but it should make things more interesting. - Nyarlathotep 19:59, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * good point..Spanish have already pulled a cat out of a hat once with Brandon Mayfield Neutralizer 21:32, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Title
Can someone come up with a longer title? Maybe a little more descriptive? I think it should read "Spanish judge" instead of Spain, since this is really not precise enough otherwise. Also, it should read "killing two and severly injuring 4 others" instead of "killing two" as that does not really capture the whole scope otherwise. Also, it should read "army soldiers" instead of just "soldiers", since members of the other branches of the U.S. military might feel that shooting journalists is only a problem of the U.S. army and they don't want to be unfairly judged. So maybe we should also put the specific division name into the title. Or just the soldiers names? Any other ideas?--vonbergm 23:55, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm guessing this is sarcasm, and it's hilarious. I came up with the long title, after I saw that Neutralizer and MrM were fighting over the "accused of" part.  You can remove parts of this title/description, but it's all the pertinent information, except the "accused of" part.  I guess the fact that it happened two years ago isn't necessary in the title, but it does change the story significantly, as happening during the Iraq war as opposed to sometime more recently. - McCart42 (talk) 13:31, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Reverted to more concise title. Neutralizer 20:02, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

;-) vonbergm 22:19, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Silliness . The title, of course, is still misleading because the spanish warrant only accuses the soldiers of killing one journalist. - Amgine / talk 00:45, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


text:
RAF officer refusing to serve in Iraq

October 20, 2005

Flight Lieutenant Malcolm Kendall-Smith, a New Zealand born RAF medical officer based at Kinloss in Scotland, faces a court martial on four counts of disobeying a lawful command.

It has been reported that the charges will be defended on the basis that an officer is justified in refusing to obey commands if they are illegal and that the invasion of Iraq was an illegal act.

No date has yet been set for the court martial.

title: RAF officer refusing to serve in Iraq


text:
User talk:Holon67~enwikinews

Welcome
Holon67, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --Mrmiscellanious 23:44, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
 * Writing an article - how to write and publish a complete article
 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Style guide - how articles should look before publishing
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
 * The front page lead articles often need updating
 * Developing stories need finishing and publishing
 * Discussions need your input
 * Audio Wikinews could always use more contributors
 * And of course, stories need writing!

Padilla article
You're writing from the point of view of someone very anti- the current administration.

The piece is way over the top in terms of being emotive. It seeks to make people hate the targets it sets up.

That's not what Wikinews is about, please read the above links in your hello section. Brian McNeil / talk 20:25, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

removing tags
Please do not remove article tags without first discussing, and gaining consensus, on the talk page. -  Amgine | talk 20:32, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm not addressing the merits or lack of for the NPOV tag. I am addressing your behaviour of removing that tag without attempting to explain or discuss why it should be removed on the talk page. Please don't do that. -  Amgine | talk 20:38, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Amgine Administratorship
Hello. You can vote for or against Amgine becoming an administrator of Wiktionary here:. See ya', 82.127.99.246 18:04, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Holon67. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Holon67~enwikinews that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:15, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:32, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Holon67~enwikinews


text:
User talk:130.89.166.46

Stay and help
We need you Neutralizer 00:09, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:130.89.166.46


title: File:21October2005.sxw


title: File:21October2005.pdf


text:
User:Golden Wattle

Formerly known as User:AYArktos

title: User:Golden Wattle


text:
Talk:RAF officer refusing to serve in Iraq

This could be a big one
worth watching Neutralizer 02:18, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I hope they make an example out of this idiot and give him at least 5 years of time. The war was not illegal, Saddam violated the 1991 cease fire agreement, thereby continuing the first gulf war, of which Britain was a part of. written by 67.142.130.14

 * Comment; Great intro....the 1st. Gulf War was a double cross of Saddam by Bush Sr. who had the U.S. ambassador,Glaspie, give Saddam the green light to attack Kuwait. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Glaspie . "'We have no opinion on your Arab - Arab conflicts...the Kuwait issue is not associated with America' were interpreted by Saddam as giving tacit acquiescence to his annexation of Kuwait"....read,learn,think. Neutralizer 19:49, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh let us all bow down before the mighty logic of User:67.142.130.14! His reasoning is impervious!
 * I just cite the facts. written by 67.142.130.14

I just love it when armchair neocons like User:67.142.130.14 are so ready to denegrate members of the armed forces when they don't fit into their image of the brave soldier defending his country. Why don't you go and join the army yourself? You're so patriotic and gung-ho online, but I bet you don't have the guts to sacrifice your own life. And look, I'll even sign my message. Imroy 18:44, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Better yet, I will volunteer then refuse to uphold the oath I have taken, and use a false excuse to justify my actions. I will gladly collect my salary check each month, until there is a war, at which point I will refuse to do my job.written by 67.142.130.14

Then what do you do if when doing your job, you are asked to kill innocent people ? Optimix 18:25, 22 October 2005 (UTC)
 * exactly; or to strip prisoners and hang'em from the ceiling. This war is just as illegal as Hitler's invasions..I'm rooting for this brave RAF officer; Flight Lieutenant Malcolm Kendall-Smith Neutralizer 19:45, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

I have just heard that Flt Lt Kendall-Smith has been found guilty. This was inevitable, since, if the senior officers on his board finds that his reasons were justified then the Air Farce itself would have been guilty of fighting an illeagal war. It would be like expecting an SS Board of Honour to find one of its own innocent after refusing to participate in the invasion of Poland. Not too likely.

It takes more courage to refuse to go to Iraq than to keep your head down and say nothing. The chances of being killed in Iraq is probably less than fifty-fifty so there is a good chance that he would have survived, with so-called 'honour' intact.

It is quite revealing that he was not allowed to argue the 'Nuremburg Defence' in open court. The last thing that the establishment wants is to be reminded of is the justifications they used to be able to convict and execute government ministers of the Third Reich. 'Waging aggressive war' was one of the counts they were tried on. Perhaps people might have said that seeing Blair and Bush hanging from a gibbet (is that spelling right?) was quite a good idea. As an aside to that, it is interesting that the one crime that the International Criminal Court is unable to try is that one. The definition of 'waging aggressive war' has not been agreed. Nice little loophole for Britain. I personally think Blair would suit an outfit with arrows on, or, better still, an orange jump-suit.

Before all you right-wingers out there start deriding my lack of patriotism I would like to say that I served in the RAF from 1971 to 1982, although they weren't silly enough to trust me with a gun in public, unlike the poor sods at Deepcut. To those will no doubt criticise me I would simply say, when did you serve?

Finally, I would like to remind people that the stated reason Britain went to war was to eliminate the 'Weapons of Mass Destruction'. Blair knew they were in Iraq because his friends, the Americans, had sold them to Saddam Hussein in the eighties to tackle their enemy, Iran. Blair catagorically said that regime change was not the reason. Since his little adventure went tits-up he has been saying that getting rid of Saddam was his intention all along. Meanwhile, back in the real world, the only thing Bush knew for certain existed in Iraq was OIL. Lots of it. Since he was denied a free supply from Venezuala when the CIA-engineered coup failed he was forced to look for another target. That the likes of Haliburton would benefit by several billions of dollars was an added bonus.

End of tirade - for now


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Journalist freed from Baghdad captors

October 21, 2005 Irish news correspondent Rory Carroll was free Thursday night from his Baghdad captors after 36 hours of being held hostage. Carroll was released to Ahmad Chalabi, the deputy prime minister of Iraq, and was put under the protection of the Iraqi government.

"I was treated reasonably well," Carroll said of his captors. He thought that his abduction was done by criminals who were being opportunistic. Their identity is unclear.

The 33-year-old Carroll was on assignment from The Guardian when he was taken from outside a house in the predominantly Shiite area of Sadr City Wednesday.

title: Journalist freed from Baghdad captors


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Wikimedia Foundation and Answers.com announce partnership

October 21, 2005

The Wikimedia Foundation, the mother organization of the popular Wikipedia encyclopedia, and Answers.com, a search engine company, announced a new partnership. This partnership will lead to the development of a special edition of Answers.com's 1-Click Answers tool, called 1-Click Answers, Wikipedia Edition. The advertising revenues from this software will be split with the Wikimedia Foundation. It will be linked from the English Wikipedia Tools page for a 60 day trial beginning in 2006.

Jimmy Wales, president of the Wikimedia Foundation, said he was "pleased to partner with Answers.com, encouraging software that improves access to Wikipedia." Bob Rosenschein, Answers.com's founder and CEO, told the media that Wikipedia is "the most dynamic of over 120 content sources found in Answers.com".

The Wikipedia community is actively discussing the partnership. "One of the potential problems with encouraging software-based and third party uses of Wikipedia's content is that it could divert people from the site," one user remarked.


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High School shooting in Michigan, USA injures one

October 21, 2005

A high school student is in custody tonight after the alleged shooting of another student in the second floor hallway of a Saginaw High School in Michigan Thursday. According to Saginaw Public Schools spokesperson Michael Manley, the incident occurred during the lunch period at Saginaw High School.

Manley stated in an email that both the victim and the suspect attended the Saginaw Juvenile Center during the same periods. Both students were accepted into the school district at the beginning of the school year.

Following the incident, Manley stated that metal detectors have been installed inside the school, and that all students and visitors are required to pass through them starting Friday morning.

The victim was taken to a local hospital, where his condition has been reported as critical but stable. It is expected that the student will survive.

Earlier this year, high schools in the area rescheduled all night events to take place during earlier times in the day, due to an increase in security concerns. When asked about the increase in violence, Manley said "The violence we have experienced has been the result of community problems, feuds, disagreements, etc. that have found there way into schools."

The high school had previously been a target in a shooting last month. No injuries were reported.


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Talk:High School shooting in Michigan, USA injures one

Original reporting
I contacted Michael Manley, Executive Director of Communications & Marketing Department, via e-mail today with a short interview, which provided for most of the information in this article. The rest of the information has been taken from the provided source. --Mrmiscellanious 03:10, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Great work! Any chance your questions and his responses could be posted here? - Borofkin 00:24, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Sure. I haven't asked the guy for the answers to be released, but as I identified myself beforehand, I don't think there will be much of an issue with it.  --Mrmiscellanious 00:26, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

Responses
Alright, below are the responses I recieved from Mr. Manley via e-mail (a few more questions were asked, but were not answered). In italics are my questions, and those with a bullet next to them along with bolded text are the responses from Mr. Manley.


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Talk:Chicago White Sox win 2005 American League baseball pennant

Concerning the October 21, 2005 2:40 AM version of this article:
 * What is a "dence" ?

H Padleckas 05:41, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


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Swedish couple names baby boy "Google"

October 21, 2005

A Swedish Lebanese couple, Walid Elias and Carol Kai, has chosen to name their first born son Google, after the well-known search engine.

The Swedish tax authority, which normally frowns on unusal names, apparently had no objections.

The father, Walid Elias Kai, says he's a "great fan" of the search engine and wanted to honor the service by naming his son after it. But Mr. Kai says he and his wife also chose the name because of the similar word googol. "[Googol] means 1 followed by 100 zeroes," stated Mr. Kai, "and I want my son to have lots of friends – I want him to be social, so the name also symbolises this."

Upon hearing the news, authors of the Google weblog wrote, "We wish him long life and good health, and hope his schoolmates aren't too hard on him."

Google Kai already has his own website at http://www.google-kai.com/

title: Swedish couple names baby boy "Google"


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Syrian officials and Lebanese President accused by U.N. report

October 21, 2005 The death of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik al-Hariri in February 2005 was the result of collaboration between Syrian and Lebanese officials, says an investigation submitted to the U.N. Security Council on Thursday.

Syrian Information Minister Mahdi Dakhlallah refuted the report saying it was based on witnesses "who are well known for their anti-Syria stands."

The report cast suspicion upon Syrian security officials, as well as current Lebanese President Emile Lahoud. Hariri resigned from his post in October 2004, criticizing the Syrians for pressuring the Lebanese government to extend Lahoud's term. Emile Lahoud's office issued a statement "categorically" denying contents of the U.N. report; "There is no truth to it."

John Bolton, U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, said "After an initial read, the results are clearly troubling and will require further discussion with the international community." The United States, Britain, and France have discussed taking actions against Syria, though no response is expected until at least next week.

Hariri and 20 others were killed when a bomb exploded outside his motorcade in Beirut. U.N. Resolution 1595 provided for the investigation of Hariri's assassination, which will be led by German prosecutor Detlev Mehlis.


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Major ISP Level 3 experiences downtime

October 21, 2005

On Thursday at about 23:30 PST, Level 3 Communications, one of the largest Internet service providers (ISPs), disconnected from most of the internet. The Broomfield Colorado, USA-based Level 3 is a tier 1 provider that connects smaller ISPs together in order to pass data.

There are various reasons why they may have dropped off. The official answer given on the phone was that they had an OSPF failure in Chicago that caused massive internal routing issues. This was followed by a network wide failure of BGP – the protocol that allows the Internet to route between providers.

Other possible reasons are more nefarious. Apparently, Level 3 recently demanded that its peers (other ISPs that connect to them on a mutually beneficial level) pay Level 3 $30,000 USD. Some speculate that their quarterly report released yesterday and subsequent stock price dropping caused them to make a display of power in order to convince other ISPs to pay up. If this was the case, it failed horribly as many other ISPs are now disconnecting from their network, and, due to their demands of payment, are considering not reconnecting at all. So far there is no reason to believe that this is anything more than an urban legend, as the outage impacted all other peers and customers as well.

Larger network-based projects noticed the outage immediately. The Freenode IRC network set up a channel for ongoing news and to figure out how to work around the problem. As reports came in from around the world, it became more obvious that this would not be a simple fix. Level 3 had lost connections to AT&T, Cogent, Internap, Qwest, Savvis, SBC, Sprint, UUNet, Verio, WilTel, XO, and more.

An hour into the problem, many network administrators had routed around Level 3 to avoid their problems, but Level 3 was still out. Two hours in and the response from Level 3 was that “we're having technical problems – no estimated time of completion yet”.

Finally, after about two and a half hours, Level 3 started routing packets correctly, but it could hardly be considered fully functional. Pieces of the network seemed to be going up and down at random and Level 3 tech support said they would need more time to fix the problem.

At about 3:30 PST, Level 3's services returned to normal, and they reconnected to the Internet.

title: Major ISP Level 3 experiences downtime


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Talk:OpenOffice.org office suite version 2.0 has been released

Possibly useful for original reporting: OOo 2.0 visually is not compatible with windows-computers which do not run Windows-XP or do not use the default windows colorscheme. Reason being that the toolbars were "polished" with gradients to fit better with Windows XPs default theme. When users informed the devs multiple times that their "native rendering of toolbars" results in the opposite (looking non-native and in the case of dark desktop color-schemes so ugly that it almost becomes unusable), the answer of the devs was that everyone is using Windows XP anyways and that the earlier Windows-Versions dont matter anymore.

To see the problem, simply install OOo 2.0 on a Windows PC and switch to a dark colorscheme(dark background, bright foreground).

This is especially ironic since the OOo-Website prides itself with claiming that 2.0 now better integrates with the native-theme of the Client-OS. Considering that they are fully aware of what they did, this gives a strong impression that concerning the Windows-world, the project does not care anymore about pre-XP installations. -- 82.141.51.14 talk

 * I'll add something about this. It mightn't be as strongly critical as you might like, but I'll give it a mention.  I also plan to publish this article.  Moving it back to development hasn't sparked any development, and although it could be better, it's not a bad article. 84.203.7.190 16:37, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


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Talk:Major ISP Level 3 experiences downtime

This is the worst title for a Wikinews article that I've ever seen.

 * So true. This is a news site, not a livejournal blog ;-) How about something like "Internet slows down as major provider drops off"? Haakon 09:15, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

aww, come on - i love it ;-)--82.141.51.14 09:23, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Besides, the title (and the article) is factually incorrect; the internet is not down, it's just that some sites are unavailable or slower than usual. No need for hysteria. Haakon 09:27, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

This was followed by a network wide failure of BGP – the protocol that allows the Internet to route between providers. This makes it sound like BGP failed across the entire Internet. Surely that's not the case? —Brent Dax (talk) 10:12, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

 * nefarious = 'dark and sinister' ... i thought it was a 'breakfast cereal. -Edbrown05 16:46, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

 * BGP failed across Level 3's network, not across the internetwork (that is, internet). Could this be worded more clearly? — Fudoreaper 03:52, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

What is up with the "In other news, Philip blossomed into puberty." at the bottom of the article that is not in the history or in the edit box for the article?--65.67.225.244 16:57, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Now it seems the Cogent backbone is down. --24.57.157.81 21:08, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

News occurring in PST?
Considering that there are no US states currently in the PST timezone, why are times quoted in PST? Consider MDT (since the company is headquartered in Colorado) or UTC, which is easier for most people to convert to their current local time. Karen 15:31, 23 October 2005 (UTC)


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South Thailand insurgents blamed for five bombs

October 21, 2005

In the continuing unrest in the predominantly Muslim southern provinces of Thailand, insurgents have been blamed for the planting of five bombs during one day.

In Yala, at the provincial hall a remote-controlled bomb that had been attached to an official's car was detonated mid-morning. Pairin Chaimarn, a community development officer and owner of the car, was shocked to learn she had been sitting on a bomb. The governor ordered checks be carried out on all vehicles entering the provincial hall's parking area.

Another two bombs in the province were discovered. One under a policeman's car was noticed and handled by the bomb-squad.. Bomb-disposal experts reported that it had contained 5kg of home-made explosives. Only one hour later another device was discovered in the same district of the province. Residents reported it to border police who shot the device in an effort to disable it. It was confirmed that it contained explosives.

In Pattani province, a home-made device was left at the entrance to Yarang district's electricity office. It was found to contain fertilizer and iron rods, with a mobile phone, presumably for remote detonation.

The final bomb of the day detonated at a railway crossing booth in Pattani; nobody was injured by the blast.

Recent violence in the southern provinces of Thailand has a historical basis going back to the 16th century. Pattani, one of the northern sultinates on the Malay Peninsula, was at that time loosely governed by the Kingdom of Siam. The British colonial administration of Malaya formally recognised Siamese sovereignty in the Anglo-Siamese Treaty of 1909, the sultinate was divided into the provinces Narathiwat, Pattani, and Yala in 1933. Along with Songkhla Province, the region has had a recognisable separatist movement since some time in the 1930s, seeking to establish an independent state, Patani Darussalam (Patani, Land of Peace).


text:
Template:South Thailand insurgency infobox

The involved provinces and surrounding area of Thailand and Malaysia


text: Category:South Thailand insurgency

title: Category:South Thailand insurgency


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Talk:Publishers seek injunction against Google Print

I'm thinking that Google doesn't have the right to use an opt-out policy with regard to copyright. They'll have to get explicit permission -- just look at the language used in every copyright notice ever, including the one at the bottom of this page. -- Phyzome is Tim McCormack 14:02, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Edit request
editprotected

Remove space before archive that seems to be causing the highly annoying gray box right above it. Thanks, Tyrol5 (talk) 20:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
 * This is happening on all the 2005 articles, but anyway... ✅ Diego Grez return fire 20:19, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

 * Sounds like (yet another) bot job. Blood Red Sandman  (Talk)   (Contribs) 20:20, 20 October 2010 (UTC)


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User:Silverthunder

Sterling D. Allan http://sterlingdallan.com

See my profile at |PESwiki.com]

title: User:Silverthunder


text:
User:Yonghokim

wikipedia:User:Yonghokim

title: User:Yonghokim


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Norway takes action to prevent a possible bird flu epidemic

October 21, 2005 The Norwegian government has in recent days taken several steps to prevent a possible bird flu epidemic from entering the country and further spreading within the nations border. Apart from obtaining a stock of the medicine Tamiflu, The Norwegian Food Safety Authority issued today an order for all poultry in eleven of the of the country's nineteen counties to be kept indoors: Rogaland, Vestfold, Buskerud, Telemark, Østfold, Akershus, Oslo, Hedmark, Oppland, Vest-Agder, and Aust-Agder. The authority also asked the border customs to increase the inspections against possible illegal import of poultry.

"We continue to monitor the situation and are co-operating with other authorities as well as other European authorities", said director of health and hygiene within the Norwegian Food Safety Authority, Stein Ivar Ormsettrø.

Import of poultry has also been stopped from parts of Russia and other countries.


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Possible end to strike, fines for BC teachers

The BC Teachers' Federation (BCTF) and the government have both accepted mediator Vince Ready's recommendations.

Premier Gordan Campbell announced in a news conference today that he will accept the plan unconditionally.

However, Jinny Sims (head of the BCTF) has said that she will only accept the proposal if the government provides firm class-size numbers and support for special-needs students. "We need for our students a guarantee in writing that this government will make changes to the School Act to put firm class-size numbers" Sims also said, "And in the School Act, they will address class composition. And that means support for special needs kids".

Sims will recommend to her union to accept the proposal if these conditions are met.

Key points of the proposal to which both sides have agreed include: "I believe the recommendations provide a fair basis for resolution of the present dispute, especially in the context of the additional opportunities for the BCTF to address these and other issues in the next few months," Ready's report said.
 * Government spends $40 million to "harmonize" teachers salaries across BC
 * Another $20 million is spent on top of current funding to reduce class-size and help special-need students. This brings that funding up to $120 million.
 * The government consults with the BCTF about how class-size reduction should take place.
 * The government puts $40 million (one-time) into the unions long-term disability fund.
 * The government raises pay for substitute teachers to $120 a day.

If the union votes this weekend, classes could be in this Monday.

With a cost
Justice Brenda Brown of the British Columbia Supreme Court made an order today that the BCTF must pay $500,000 for being in contempt of court. She noted that the fine would have been "significantly larger", were it not for the fact that the two sides were working toward an agreement to quickly end the labour disruption. The amount was based on the union's membership numbers and assets ($15 million).

Legal commentators noted that this is the largest penalty ever ordered by a Canadian court following a finding of contempt. A lawyer for the employer noted that he was satisfied with the size of the fine. Still, it's not over yet. The court has the right to order further penalties if the union and its members continue their illegal job action. As well, an independent prosecutor appointed by the Attorney General's office is reviewing the case to determine whether charges of criminal contempt are appropriate.


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Talk:Journalist freed from Baghdad captors

Article name consistency
Since the titles of the last two published articles about this guy called him "Irish journalist", I think this article should have used that same term - as it is it looks like an Irish guy was captured and then some other guy was released. 84.203.7.190 16:33, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Category
edit protected

Please add this article to Category:The Guardian. Thank you. Green Giant (talk) 03:01, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Pi zero (talk) 04:11, 19 September 2015 (UTC)


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Talk:Houston Astros win 2005 National League baseball pennant

not sure what the protocol for editing articles, as i'm putting this in as a talk item. there are a few factual inaccuracies in this artcle:

para_2: Houston's stellar rotation is: Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte and Roy Oswalt.

para_3: all references to McKenzie should be Oswalt.


text:
User talk:65.67.225.244

Welcome
65.67.225.244, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --Cspurrier 17:02, 21 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
 * Writing an article - how to write and publish a complete article
 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Style guide - how articles should look before publishing
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
 * The front page lead articles often need updating
 * Developing stories need finishing and publishing
 * Discussions need your input
 * Audio Wikinews could always use more contributors
 * And of course, stories need writing!

Major ISP Level 3 experiences downtime
The "In other news, Philip blossomed into puberty." was something a vandal added that was removed, what you are seeing is cached copy, click refresh and it should go away --Cspurrier 17:02, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:65.67.225.244


text:
User talk:Silverthunder

Welcome
Thanks for experimenting with Wikinews. Your test worked, and has now been reverted or removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing in articles may disrupt the site's working and will be reverted quickly. Silverthunder, welcome to Wikinews! Please refrain from using content pages for testing. Here are a few good links for newcomers on how to edit Wikinews:

Our key policies - if you read anything, read these! Here a few pointers to help you get to know Wikinews: There are always things to do on Wikinews: By the way, you can sign your name on Talk pages using four tildes ( ~~~~ ), which produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, you can ask them at the water cooler or to anyone on the Welcommittee, or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
 * Neutral point of view - tell every side to a story in a fair and balanced way
 * Cite sources - everything in a Wikinews article must be sourced
 * Introduction - overview of the site
 * Writing an article - how to write and publish a complete article
 * Content guide - what's suitable for Wikinews
 * Style guide - how an article should look before publishing
 * Contents - the contents page.
 * Existing articles need expanding and checking for spelling and mistakes
 * The front page lead articles often need updating
 * Developing stories need finishing and publishing
 * Discussions need your input
 * And of course, stories need writing!

Just wanted to point out that Wikinews has a section of resources which might be a place to post your list, but it does not belong in the main namespace because it is not a news article. WN does not host news feeds for other news sites, and is not a link farm. You might wish to check out What Wikinews is not for some other guidelines... - Amgine / talk 17:17, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Silverthunder


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Talk:Swedish couple names baby boy "Google"

Thanks for the laugh! lol Bawolff ☺☻ 19:39, 21 October 2005 (UTC)


text: File:Bctf.gif

title: File:Bctf.gif


text: File:JinnySims.jpg

title: File:JinnySims.jpg


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Avian flu found within UK

October 21, 2005

Bird Flu has been found in a parrot under quarantine which was being imported from Surinam, South America. It has been confirmed as the lethal H5N1 strain found predominantly in Asia. It is speculated that the flu might have originated from Taiwanese birds which had previously been kept with the South American birds, as no other H5N1 cases have yet been reported in Surinam. This is the first case of avian flu found in birds destined to be imported to the United Kingdom since the recent outbreak affecting many parts of the world. The BBC has said that all birds in the quarantine unit are now being culled. People who may have come into contact with them will be given anti-viral treatment as a precaution.

Although the case was found in the UK it does not affect the UK's 'disease free' status because the bird was under quarantine.

title: Avian flu found within UK


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Talk:Syrian officials and Lebanese President accused by U.N. report

NPOV
I won't put a tag, but the article needs Syria's reaction to the report if possible. Neutralizer 21:29, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Ok, I worked on it, renamed it and added Syria's official reaction. Neutralizer 23:23, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Syrian involvement vs. Syrian officials
With the burning of bodies by a few US soldiers, we did not say "American involvement in desecrating bodies".

There has been much written about the CIA's support of Pinochet's takeover of Chile as well as US officials' orchestration of the killing of the S.Vietnamese leader to destabilize S Vietnam and propel that war. I never read about "american involvement" in those events..it is always "cia involvement" or some "rogue american officials".

Unless this story was saying the Syrian government (its President and cabinet/parliament..whatever it has) ordered the killing, it's misleading to say "Syrian involvement"...this is exactly how wars are orchestrated; by twisting a word or 2 in order to justify an attack. Everybody knows that Syria is the next soft target in the sights of those who are war mongers.

I'd like to hear from other editors and, in the meantime,I'm reverting the title. Neutralizer 13:02, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Why is the reference to the Lebanese President's involvement
getting second billing to the involvement of Syrians in major media's reporting of this event??? If there was a UN report claiming that Israeli agents and President Bush collaborated to cause the 9/11 attacks, would Israel get the headline and Bush not be in it? Neutralizer 15:53, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Wouldn't that be the most important thing about the story? Western media is using this story to "pile on" Syria,imo. Another great example of how cunning and effective the neo-cons are. Neutralizer 13:22, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Transparant War Engineering Underway; US can't control their own borders; expects Syria to control theirs
The way this story is being handled is 1 more link in the chain leading up to the US taking control of Syria. The mighty US claims they can not stop 3 million illegals from coming in from Mexico each year; but at the same time say that Syria is able to identify and stop the few thousand that come into Iraq from Syria each year.

One excuse for invasion/occupation is as good as any other;e.g. Hitler's "humanitarian/liberation/repatriation" invasions. "Nonsense meant for fools' ears"(Einstein's reference to "red-scare" of the 50s). Neutralizer 13:33, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Syrian border
re: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Talk:Syrian_officials_and_Lebanese_President_accused_by_U.N._report#Transparant_War_Engineering_Underway.3B_US_can.27t_control_their_own_borders.3B_expects_Syria_to_control_theirs

It's worth pointing out that Syrian Intelligence is actively funding, training, and supplying insurgents in Syrian territory. You simply need to spend some time on memri.org and watch insurgents confess where they got money from and how they learned to slaughter people by using cattle as test subjects -- all this happening at camps in Syria.

The otherside of your comment is just as ill informed. The US could shut down 90% of illegal movements on the southern border if there was the political will power to do so. There isn't. Moreover, doing so would paralyse the Mexican economy. written by 69.23.220.138 originally on my user page Neutralizer 23:52, 22 October 2005 (UTC)


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France protests treatment of government minister by US authorities; US government admits mistake

October 21, 2005 Updated: October 25, 2005 The French government has protested officially to the US government for some border control that it deemed "a little excessive" with respect to a French minister travelling to the US on October 13 on a diplomatic passport and with a diplomatic visa.

French spokesman, Jean-Baptiste Mattei said; "We protested to the U.S. authorities and have received clarifications via the State Department, which recognized that a professional fault had been made by the officer. He has been reprimanded and will go through a retraining program." The spokesman declined to give details of the incident, but said the action of the officer had been "completely out of place with respect to a government minister."

The official, Azouz Begag, was born in Lyon, France of Algerian lineage. A researcher in socioeconomics at CNRS, and a writer, he is now delegate minister in charge of the promotion of equality. His functions include most notably the fight against racism.

Neither governments provided specific details about the incident, at first. However, further details have emerged. According to Le Monde, Mr Begag was told by an officer that his diplomatic visa was not valid for giving conferences, then was taken to an interrogation room. Mr Begag was due to be met at the airport by American officials and French consular officers, but due to miscommunication they could not find him in the airport when he arrived.

It is not the first time that Mr Begag has had to confront suspicions of his identity. He mentioned an event in a French bank where, when entering with a woolen cap, he was taken for a thief and the police was called in. He also mentions the difficulties which, he says, people of Arabic origin have when entering the United States since the September 11, 2001 bombings. He has a personal experience of such difficulties in 2003, when, as a writer, he had problems entering the US.