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Coldcut

Coldcut are an English electronic music duo composed of Matt Black and Jonathan More. Credited as pioneers for pop sampling in the 1980s, Coldcut are also considered the first stars of UK electronic dance music due to their innovative style, which featured cut-up samples of hip-hop, soul, funk, spoken word and various other types of music, as well as video and multimedia. According to Spin, "in '87 Coldcut pioneered the British fad for 'DJ records'".

Coldcut's records first introduced the public to pop artists Yazz and Lisa Stansfield, through which these artists achieved pop chart success. In addition, Coldcut has remixed and created productions on tracks by the likes of Eric B & Rakim, James Brown, Queen Latifah, Eurythmics, INXS, Steve Reich, Blondie, the Fall, Pierre Henry, Nina Simone, Fog, Red Snapper, and BBC Radiophonic Workshop.

Beyond their work as a production duo, Coldcut are the founders of Ninja Tune, an independent record label in London, England (with satellite offices in Los Angeles and Berlin) with an overall emphasis on encouraging interactive technology and finding innovative uses of software. The label's first releases (the first four volumes of DJ Food - Jazz Brakes) were produced by Coldcut in the early '90s, and composed of instrumental hip-hop cuts that led the duo to help pioneer the trip hop genre, with artists such as Funki Porcini, the Herbaliser and DJ Vadim.

1980s
In 1986, computer programmer Matt Black and ex-art teacher Jonathan More were part-time DJs on the rare groove scene. More also DJed on pirate radio, hosting the Meltdown Show on Kiss FM and worked at the Reckless Records store on Berwick Street, London where Black visited as a customer. The first collaboration between the two artists was "Say Kids What Time Is It?" on a white label in January 1987, which mixed The Jungle Book 's "King of the Swingers" with the break from James Brown's "Funky Drummer". The innovation of "Say Kids..." caused More and Black to be heralded by SPIN as "the first Brit artists to really get hip-hop's class-cutup aesthetic". It is regarded as the UK's first breaks record, the first UK record to be built entirely of samples and "the final link in the chain connecting European collage-experiment with the dance-remix-scratch edit". This was later sampled in "Pump Up the Volume" by MARRS, a single that reached #1 in the UK in October 1987.

Though Black had joined Kiss FM with his own mix-based show, the pair eventually joined forces on its own show later in 1987 called Solid Steel. The eclectic show became a unifying force in underground experimental electronic music and is still running, celebrating 25 years in 2013.

The duo adopted the name "Coldcut" and set up a record label called Ahead Of Our Time to release the single "Beats + Pieces" (one of the formats also included "That Greedy Beat") in 1987. All of these tracks were assembled using cassette pause button edits and later spliced tape edits that would sometimes run "all over the room". The duo used sampling from Led Zeppelin to James Brown. Electronic act the Chemical Brothers have described "Beats + Pieces" as the "first bigbeat record", a style which appeared in the mid-1990s.

Coldcut's first mainstream success came when Julian Palmer from Island Records asked them to remix Eric B. & Rakim's "Paid in Full". Released in October 1987, the landmark remix is said to have "laid the groundwork for hip hop's entry into the UK mainstream", becoming a breakthrough hit for Eric B & Rakim outside the U.S., reaching No. 15 in the UK, and the top 20 in a number of European countries. It featured a prominent Ofra Haza sample and many other vocal cut ups as well as a looped rhythm which later, when sped up, proved popular in the Breakbeat genre. Off the back of its success in clubs, the Coldcut "Seven Minutes of Madness" remix ended up being promoted as the single in the UK.

In 1988, More and Black formed Hex, a self-titled "multimedia pop group", with Mile Visman and Rob Pepperell. While working on videos for artists such as Kevin Saunderson, Queen Latifah and Spiritualized, Hex's collaborative work went on to incorporate 3D modelling, punk video art, and algorithmic visuals on desktop machines. The video for Coldcut's 'Christmas Break' in 1989 is arguably one of the first pop promos produced entirely on microcomputers.

In 1988, Coldcut released Out To Lunch With Ahead Of Our Time, a double LP of Coldcut productions and re-cuts, and the various aliases under which the duo had recorded. This continued the duo's tradition of releasing limited available vinyl.

The next Coldcut single, released in February 1988, moved towards a more house-influenced style. "Doctorin' the House", which debuted singer Yazz, became a top ten hit, and peaked at No. 6. In the same year, under the guise Yazz and the Plastic Population, they produced "The Only Way Is Up", a cover of a Northern soul song. The record reached No. 1 in the UK in August, and remained there for five weeks, becoming 1988's second biggest selling single. Producer Youth of Killing Joke also helped Coldcut with this record. The duo had another top hit in September with "Stop This Crazy Thing", which featured reggae vocalist Junior Reid and reached number 21 in the UK.

The single "People Hold On" became another UK Top 20 hit. Released in March 1989, it helped launch the career of the then relatively unknown singer Lisa Stansfield. Coldcut and Mark Saunders produced her debut solo single "This Is the Right Time", which became another UK Top 20 hit in August as well as reaching No. 21 on the U.S. Billboard Hot 100 the following year.

As the duo started to enjoy critical and commercial success, their debut album What's That Noise? was released in April 1989 on Ahead of Our Time and distributed by Big Life Records. The album gave "breaks the full length treatment", and showcased "their heady blend of hip-hop production aesthetics and proto-acid house grooves". It also rounded up a heap of unconventional guest features, quoted by SPIN as having "somehow found room at the same table for Queen Latifah and Mark E. Smith". The album's track "I'm in Deep" (featuring Smith) prefigured the indie-dance guitar-breaks crossover of such bands as the Stone Roses and Happy Mondays, utilizing Smith's freestyle raucous vocals over an acid house backing, and also including psych guitar samples from British rock band Deep Purple. What's That Noise? reached the Top 20 in the UK and was certified Silver.

1990s
Coldcut's second album, Some Like It Cold, released in 1990 on Ahead Of Our Time, featured a collaboration with Queen Latifah on the single "Find a Way". Though "Find a Way" was a minor hit in the UK, no more singles were released from the album. The duo was given the BPI "Producer of the Year Award" in 1990. Hex - alongside some other London visual experimenters such as iE - produced a series of videos for a longform VHS version of the album. This continued Coldcut and Hex's pioneering of the use of microcomputers to synthesize electronic music visuals.

After their success with Lisa Stansfield, Coldcut signed with her label, Arista. Conflicts arose with the major label, as Coldcut's "vision extended beyond the formulae of house and techno" and mainstream pop culture (CITATION: The Virgin Encyclopedia Of Nineties Music, 2000). Eventually, the duo's album Philosophy emerged in 1993. Singles "Dreamer" and "Autumn Leaves" (1994) sung by vocalist Janis Alexander were both minor hits but the album did not chart.

"Autumn Leaves" had strings recorded at Abbey Road, with a 30-piece string section and an arrangement by film composer Ed Shearmur. The leader of the string section was Simon Jeffes of Penguin Cafe Orchestra. Coldcut's insistence on their friend Mixmaster Morris to remix "Autumn Leaves" led to one of Morris' most celebrated remixes, which became a minor legend in ambient music. It has appeared on numerous compilations.

In 1990, whilst on their first tour in Japan (which also featured Norman Cook, who later became Fatboy Slim), Matt and Jon formed their second record label, Ninja Tune, as a self-titled "technocoloured escape pod", and a way to escape the creative control of major labels. The label enabled them to release music under different aliases (e.g. Bogus Order, DJ Food), which also helped them to avoid pigeonholing as producers. Ninja Tune's first release was Bogus Order's "Zen Brakes". The name Coldcut stayed with Arista so there were no official Coldcut releases for the next three years.

During this time, Coldcut still produced for artists on their new label, releasing a flood of material under different names and continuing to work with young groups. They additionally kept on with Solid Steel on Kiss FM and running the night club Stealth (Club of the Year in the NME, The Face, and Mixmag in 1996).

In 1991, Hex released their first video game, Top Banana, which was included on a Hex release for the Commodore CDTV machine in 1992, arguably the first complete purpose-designed multimedia system. Top Banana was innovative in that it used sampled graphics, contained an ecological theme and a female lead character (dubbed "KT"), and its music changed through random processes. Coldcut and Hex presented this multimedia project as an example of the forthcoming convergence of pop music and computer-game characters.

In 1992, Hex's first single - "Global Chaos" / "Digital Love Opus 1" - combined rave visuals with techno and ambient interactive visuals. In November of that year, Hex released Global Chaos CDTV, which took advantage of the possibilities of the new CD-ROM medium. The Global Chaos CDTV disk (which contained the Top Banana game, interactive visuals and audio), was a forerunner of the "CD+" concept, uniting music, graphics, and video games into one. This multi-dimensional entertainment product received wide coverage in the national media, including features on Dance Energy, Kaleidoscope on BBC Radio 4, What's Up Doc? on ITV and Reportage on BBC Two. i-D Magazine was quoted as saying, "It's like your TV tripping".

Coldcut videos were made for most songs, often by Hexstatic, and used a lot of stock and sampled footage. Their "Timber" video, which created an AV collage piece using analogous techniques to audio sample collage, was put on heavy rotation on MTV. Stuart Warren Hill of Hexstatic referred to this technique as: "What you see is what you hear". "Timber" (which appears on both Let Us Play, Coldcut's fourth album, and Let Us Replay, their fifth) won awards for its innovative use of repetitive video clips synced to the music, including being shortlisted at the Edinburgh Television and Film Festival in their top five music videos of the year in 1998.

Coldcut began integrating video sampling into their live DJ gigs at the time, and incorporated multimedia content that caused press to credit the act as segueing "into the computer age". Throughout the 90s, Hex created visuals for Coldcut's live performances, and developed the CD-ROM portion of Coldcut's Let Us Play and Let Us Replay, in addition to software developed specifically for the album's world tour. Hex's inclusion of music videos and "playtools" (playful art/music software programs) on Coldcut's CD-ROM was completely ahead of the curve at that time, offering viewers/listeners a high level of interactivity. Playtools such as My Little Funkit and Playtime were the prototypes for Ninja Jamm, the app Coldcut designed and launched 16 years later. Playtime followed on from Coldcut and Hex's Synopticon installation, developing the auto-cutup algorhythm, and using other random processes to generate surprising combinations. Coldcut and Hex performed live using Playtime at the 1st Sonar Festival in 1994. Playtime was also used to generate the backing track for Coldcut's collaboration with Jello Biafra, "Every Home a Prison".

In 1994, Coldcut and Hex contributed an installation to the Glasgow Gallery of Modern Art. The piece, called Generator, was installed in the Fire Gallery. Generator was an interactive installation which allowed users to mix sound, video, text and graphics and make their own audio-visual mix, modelled on the techniques and technology used by Coldcut in clubs and live performance events. It consisted of two consoles: the left controlling how the sounds are played, the right controlling how the images are played.

As part of the JAM exhibition of "Style, Music and Media" at the Barbican Art Gallery in 1996, Coldcut and Hex were commissioned to produce an interactive audiovisual piece called Synopticon. Conceived and designed by Robert Pepperell and Matt Black, the digital culture synthesiser allows users to "remix" sounds, images, text and music in a partially random, partially controlled way.

The year 1996 also brought the Coldcut name back to More and Black, and the pair celebrated with 70 Minutes of Madness, a mix CD that became part of the Journeys by DJ series. The release was credited with "bringing to wider attention the sort of freestyle mixing the pair were always known for through their radio show on KISS FM, Solid Steel, and their steady club dates". It was voted "Best Compilation of All Time" by Jockey Slut in 1998.

In February 1997, they released a double pack single "Atomic Moog 2000" / "Boot the System", the first Coldcut release on Ninja Tune. This was not eligible for the UK chart because time and format restrictions prevented the inclusion of the "Natural Rhythm" video on the CD. In August 1997, a reworking of the early track "More Beats + Pieces" gave them their first UK Top 40 hit since 1989.

The album Let Us Play! followed in September and also made the Top 40. The fourth album by Coldcut, Let Us Play! paid homage to the greats that inspired them. Their first album to be released on Ninja Tune, it featured guest appearances by Grandmaster Flash, Steinski, Jello Biafra, Jimpster, The Herbaliser, Talvin Singh, Daniel Pemberton and Selena Saliva. Coldcut's cut 'n' paste method on the album was compared to that of Dadaism and William Burroughs. Hex collaborated with Coldcut to produce the multimedia CD-ROM for the album. Hex later evolved the software into the engine that was used on the Let Us Play! world tour.

In 1997, Matt Black - alongside Cambridge based developers Camart - created real-time video manipulation software VJAMM. It allowed users to be a "digital video jockey", remixing and collaging sound and images and trigger audio and visual samples simultaneously, subsequently bringing futuristic technology to the audio-visual field. VJAMM rivalled some of the features of high-end and high cost tech at the time. The VJAMM technology, praised as being proof of how far computers changed the face of live music, became seminal in both Coldcut's live sets (which were called a "revelaton" by Melody Maker and DJ sets. Their CCTV live show was featured at major festivals including Glastonbury, Roskilde, Sónar, the Montreux Jazz Festival, and John Peel's Meltdown. The "beautifully simple and devastatingly effective" software was deemed revolutionary, and became recognized as a major factor in the evolution of clubs. It eventually earned a place in the American Museum of the Moving Image's permanent collection. As quoted by The Independent, Coldcut's rallying cry was "Don't hate the media, be the media'". NME was quoted as saying: "Veteran duo Coldcut are so cool they invented the remix - now they are doing the same for television."

Also working with Camart, Black designed DJamm software in 1998, which Coldcut used on laptops for their live shows, providing the audio bed alongside VJAMM's audiovisual samples. Matt Black explained they designed DJamm so they "could perform electronic music in a different way – i.e., not just taking a session band out to reproduce what you put together in the studio using samples. It had a relationship to DJing, but was more interactive and more effective." Excitingly at that time, DJamm was pioneering in its ability to shuffle sliced loops into intricate sequences, enabling users to split loops into any number of parts.

In 1999, Let Us Replay! was released, a double-disc remix album where Coldcut's classic tunes were remixed by the likes of Cornelius (which was heralded as a highlight of the album, Irresistible Force, Shut Up And Dance, Carl Craig and J Swinscoe. Let Us Replay! pieces together "short sharp shocks that put the mental in 'experimental' and still bring the breaks till the breakadawn". It also includes a few live tracks from the duo's innovative world tour. The CD-ROM of the album, which also contained a free demo disc of the VJamm software, was one of the earliest audiovisual CD- ROMs on the market, and Muzik claimed deserved to "have them canonized...it's like buying an entire mini studio for under $15".

2000s
In 2000, the Solid Steel show moved to BBC London.

Coldcut continued to forge interesting collaborations, including 2001's Re:volution as an EP in which Coldcut created their own political party (The Guilty Party). Featuring scratches and samples of Tony Blair and William Hague speeches, the 3-track EP included Nautilus' "Space Journey", which won an Intermusic contest in 2000. The video was widely played on MTV. With "Space Journey", Coldcut were arguably the first group to give fans access to the multitrack parts, or "stems" of their songs, building on the idea of interactivity and sharing from Let Us Play.

In 2001, Coldcut produced tracks for the Sega music video game Rez. Rez replaced typical video-game sound effects with electronic music; the player created sounds and melodies, intended to simulate a form of synesthesia. The soundtrack also featured Adam Freeland and Oval.

In 2002, while utilizing VJamm and Detraktor, Coldcut and Juxta remixed Herbie Hancock's classic "Rockit", creating both an audio and video remix.

Working with Marcus Clements in 2002, Coldcut released the sample manipulation algorhythm from their DJamm software as a standalone VST plugin that could be used in other software, naming it the "Coldcutter".

Also in 2002, Coldcut with UK VJs Headspace (now mainly performing as the VJamm Allstars developed Gridio, an interactive, immersive audio-visual installation for the Pompidou Centre as part of the ‘'Sonic Process exhibition. The Sonic Process'' exhibition was launched at the MACBA in Barcelona in conjunction with Sónar, featuring Gridio as its centerpiece. In 2003, a commission for Graz led to a specially built version of Gridio, in a cave inside the castle mountain in Austria. Gridio was later commissioned by O2 for two simultaneous customised installations at the O2 Wireless Festivals in Leeds and London in 2007. That same year, Gridio was featured as part of Optronica at the opening week of the new BFI Southbank development in London.

In 2003, Black worked with Penny Rimbaud (ex Crass) on Crass Agenda's Savage Utopia project. Black performed the piece with Rimbaud, Eve Libertine and other players at London's Vortex Jazz Club.

In 2004, Coldcut collaborated with American video mashup artist TV Sheriff to produce their cut-up entitled "Revolution USA". The tactical-media project (coordinated with Canadian art duo NomIg) followed on from the UK version and extended the premise "into an open access participatory project". Through the multimedia political art project, over 12 gigabytes of footage from the last 40 years of US politics were made accessible to download, allowing participants to create a cut-up over a Coldcut beat. Coldcut also collaborated with TV Sheriff and NomIg to produce two audiovisual pieces "World of Evil" (2004) and "Revolution '08" (2008), both composed of footage from the United States presidential elections of respective years. The music used was composed by Coldcut, with "Revolution '08" featuring a remix by the Qemists.

Later that year, a collaboration with the British Antarctic Survey (BAS) led to the psychedelic art documentary Wavejammer. Coldcut was given access to the BAS archive in order to create sounds and visuals for the short film.

Two thousand and four also saw Coldcut produce a radio play in conjunction with renowned young author Hari Kunzru for BBC Radio 3 (incidentally called Sound Mirrors).

Coldcut returned with the single "Everything Is Under Control" at the end of 2005, featuring Jon Spencer (of Jon Spencer Blues Explosion) and Mike Ladd. It was followed in 2006 by their fifth studio album Sound Mirrors, which was quoted as being "one of the most vital and imaginative records Jon Moore and Matt Black have ever made", and saw the duo "continue, impressively, to find new ways to present political statements through a gamut of pristine electronics and breakbeats" (CITATION: Future Music, 2007). The fascinating array of guest vocalists included Soweto Kinch, Annette Peacock, Ameri Baraka, and Saul Williams. The latter followed on from Coldcut's remix of Williams' "The Pledge" for a project with DJ Spooky.

A 100-date audiovisual world tour commenced for Sound Mirrors, which was considered "no small feat in terms of technology or human effort". Coldcut was accompanied by scratch DJ Raj and AV artist Juxta, in addition to guest vocalists from the album, including UK rapper Juice Aleem, Roots Manuva, Mpho Skeef, Jon Spencer and house legend Robert Owens.

Three further singles were released from the album including the Top 75 hit "True Skool" with Roots Manuva. The same track appeared on the soundtrack of the video game FIFA Street 2.

Sponsored by the British Council, in 2005 Coldcut introduced AV mixing to India with the Union project, alongside collaborators Howie B and Aki Nawaz of Fun-Da-Mental. Coldcut created an A/V remix of the Bollywood hit movie Kal Ho Naa Ho.

In 2006, Coldcut performed an A/V set based on "Music for 18 Musicians" as part of Steve Reich's 70th birthday gig at the Barbican Centre in London. This was originally written for the 1999 album Reich Remixed.

Coldcut remixed another classic song in 2007: Nina Simone's "Save Me". This was part of a remix album called Nina Simone: Remixed & Re-imagined, featuring remixes from Tony Humphries, Francois K and Chris Coco.

In February 2007, Coldcut and Mixmaster Morris created a psychedelic AV obituary/tribute Coldcut, Mixmaster Morris, Ken Campbell, Bill Drummond and Alan Moore (18 March 2007). Robert Anton Wilson tribute show. Queen Elizabeth Hall, London: Mixmaster Morris. (28 August 2009) to Robert Anton Wilson, the 60s author of Illuminatus! Trilogy. The tribute featured graphic novel writer Alan Moore and artist Bill Drummond and a performance by experimental theatre legend Ken Campbell. Coldcut and Morris' hour and a half performance resembled a documentary being remixed on the fly, cutting up nearly 15 hours' worth of Wilson's lectures.

In 2008, an international group of party organisers, activists and artists including Coldcut received a grant from the Intelligent Energy Department of the European Union, to create a project that promoted intelligent energy and environmental awareness to the youth of Europe. The result was Energy Union, a piece of VJ cinema, political campaign, music tour, party, art exhibition and social media hub. Energy Union toured 12 EU countries throughout 2009 and 2010, completing 24 events in total. Coldcut created the Energy Union show for the tour, a one-hour Audio/Visual montage on the theme of Intelligent Energy. In presenting new ideas for climate, environmental and energy communication strategies, the Energy Union tour was well received, and reached a widespread audience in cities across the UK, Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands, Croatia, Slovenia, Austria, Hungary, Bulgaria, Spain and the Czech Republic.

Also in 2008, Coldcut was asked to remix the theme song for British cult TV show Doctor Who for the program's 40th anniversary. In October 2008, Coldcut celebrated the legacy of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop (the place where the Doctor Who theme was created) with a live DJ mix at London's legendary Roundhouse. The live mix incorporated classic Radiophonic Workshop compositions with extended sampling of the original gear.

Additionally in 2008, Coldcut remixed "Ourselves", a Japanese No. 1 hit from the single "&" by Ayumi Hamasaki. This mix was included on the album Ayu-mi-x 6: Gold.

Starting in 2009, Matt Black, with musician/artist/coder Paul Miller (creator of the TX Modular Open Source synth), developed Granul8, a new type of visual fx/source Black termed a "granular video synthesiser". Granul8 allows the use of realtime VJ techniques including video feedback combined with VDMX VJ software.

From 2009 onwards, Black has been collaborating with coder and psychedelic mathematician William Rood to create a forthcoming project called Liveloom, a social media AV mixer.

Recent work
In 2010, Coldcut celebrated 20 years of releasing music with its label, Ninja Tune. A book entitled Ninja Tune: 20 Years of Beats and Pieces was released on 12 August 2010, and an exhibition was held at Black Dog Publishing's Black Dog Space in London, showcasing artwork, design and photography from the label's 20-year history. A compilation album was released on 20 September in two formats: a regular version consisting of two 2-disc volumes, and a limited edition which contained six CDs, six 7" vinyl singles, a hardback copy of the book, a poster and additional items. Ninja Tune also incorporated a series of international parties. This repositioned Ninja as a continually compelling and influential label, being one of the "longest-running (and successful) UK indie labels to come out of the late-1980s/early-90s explosion in dance music and hip-hop" (Pitchfork, 28 September 2010). Pitchfork claimed it had a "right to show off a little".

In July 2013, Coldcut produced a piece entitled "D'autre" based on the writings of French poet Arthur Rimbaud, for Forum Des Images in Paris. The following month, in August, Coldcut produced a new soundtrack for a section of André Sauvage's classic film Études sur Paris, which was shown as part of Noise of Art at the BFI in London, which celebrated 100 years of electronic music and silent cinema. Coldcut put new music to films from the Russolo era, incorporating original recordings of Russolo's proto-synths.

In 2014, Coldcut did three soundtracks as part of the project New City, a series of animated skylines of the near future developed by Tomorrow's Thought Today's Liam Young, with accompanying writing from sci-fi authors Jeff Noon, Pat Cadigan and Tim Maughan.

Most recently, Coldcut released Ninja Jamm, a music making app, for Android and iOS, in collaboration with London-based arts and technology firm Seeper. Geared toward both casual listeners and more experienced DJs and music producers, the freemium app allows users to download, remix and make music with samplepacks and tunepacks that feature pro quality sample libraries and also original tracks and mixes by Coldcut, as well as other Ninja artists, creating something new altogether. With the "intuitive yet deep" app, users can turn instruments on and off, swap between clips, add glitches and effects, trigger and pitch-bend stabs and one-off samples, and change the tempo of the track instantly. Users can additionally record as they mix and instantly upload to SoundCloud or save the mixes locally. Tunepack releases for Ninja Jamm are increasingly synchronised with Ninja Tune releases on conventional formats. To date, over 30 tunepacks have been released, including Amon Tobin, Bonobo, Coldcut, DJ Food, Martyn, Lapalux, Machinedrum, Raffertie, Irresistible Force, FaltyDL, Shuttle, Starkey. Ninja Jamm was featured by Apple in the New and Noteworthy section of the App Store in the week of release and it received over 100,000 downloads in the first week. Coldcut are developing Ninja Jamm further after the Android release garnered acclaim from the Guardian, Independent, Gizmodo and many more reviewers.

In 2017, Ahead Of Our Time released the album Stories From Far Away On Piano by James Heather, and also released its follow up in 2022, the album Invisible Forces.

On 6 December 2017, BBC Radio 4 broadcast a play, Billie Homeless Dies at the End by Tom Kelly with electronic music by Coldcut.

In 2020, Coldcut appeared on the global music/afrobeat album Keleketla! (with artists such as Tenderlonious, Tamar Osborn, Sibusile Xaba, Thabang Tabane and Tony Allen), which was released on their Ahead of Our Time Records label.

On November 19th, 2021 Ahead of Our Time released an ambient compilation curated out of old and new compositions and extra sequencing with the help of Mixmaster Morris. The compilation featured music by Ryuichi Sakamoto, Julianna Barwick, Daniel Pemberton, Kaitlyn Aurelia Smith, Sigur Rós, Laraaji and many more artists, purposefully ranging in prominence.

Compilations and mix albums

 * ColdKrushCuts (mixed by Coldcut / DJ Food + DJ Krush) (1996)
 * Journeys by DJ: 70 minutes of Madness (1995)
 * Let Us Replay! (1999)
 * Cold-Cut-Outs (2002)
 * People Hold On — The Best of Coldcut (2004)
 * Coldcut Selection Deal
 * @0 (with Mixmaster Morris) (2021)

Other

 * Zen Brakes [as Bogus Order] (1990)
 * Only Heaven EP (2016)
 * Outside the Echo Chamber [as Coldcut x On-U Sound] (2017)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Coldcut


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Cuisine

A cuisine is a style of cooking characterized by distinctive ingredients, techniques and dishes, and usually associated with a specific culture or geographic region. Regional food preparation techniques, customs, and ingredients combine to enable dishes unique to a region.

Etymology
Used in English since the late 18th century, the word cuisine—meaning manner or style of cooking—is borrowed from the French for "style of cooking", as originally derived from Latin coquere "to cook".

Influences on cuisine
A cuisine is partly determined by ingredients that are available locally or through trade. Regional ingredients are developed and commonly contribute to a regional or national cuisine, such as Japanese rice in Japanese cuisine.

Religious food laws can also exercise an influence on cuisine, such as Indian cuisine and Hinduism that is mainly lacto-vegetarian (avoiding meat and eggs) due to sacred animal worship. Sikhism in Punjabi cuisine, Buddhism in East Asian cuisine, Christianity in European cuisine,  Islam in Middle Eastern cuisine, and Judaism in Jewish and Israeli cuisine all exercise an influence on cuisine.

Some factors that have an influence on a region's cuisine include the area's climate, the trade among different countries, religious or sumptuary laws and culinary culture exchange. For example, a tropical diet may be based more on fruits and vegetables, while a polar diet might rely more on meat and fish.

The area's climate, in large measure, determines the native foods that are available. In addition, climate influences food preservation. For example, foods preserved for winter consumption by smoking, curing, and pickling have remained significant in world cuisines for their altered gustatory properties.

The trade among different countries also largely affects a region's cuisine. Dating back to the ancient spice trade, seasonings such as cinnamon, cassia, cardamom, ginger, and turmeric were important items of commerce in the earliest evolution of trade, and India was a global market for this. Cinnamon and cassia found their way to the Middle East at least 4,000 years ago.

Certain foods and food preparations are required or proscribed by the religiousness or sumptuary laws, such as Islamic dietary laws and Jewish dietary laws.

Culinary culture exchange is also an important factor for cuisine in many regions: Japan's first substantial and direct exposure to the West came with the arrival of European missionaries in the second half of the 16th century. At that time, the combination of Spanish and Portuguese game frying techniques with an East Asian method for cooking vegetables in oil, led to the development of tempura, the "popular Japanese dish in which seafood and many different types of vegetables are coated with batter and deep fried".

History
Cuisine dates back to classical antiquity. As food began to require more planning, there was an emergence of meals that situated around culture.

Evolution of cuisine
Cuisines evolve continually, and new cuisines are created by innovation and cultural interaction. One recent example is fusion cuisine, which combines elements of various culinary traditions while not being categorized per any one cuisine style, and generally refers to the innovations in many contemporary restaurant cuisines since the 1970s. Nouvelle cuisine (New cuisine) is an approach to cooking and food presentation in French cuisine that was popularized in the 1960s by the food critics Henri Gault, who invented the phrase, and his colleagues André Gayot and Christian Millau in a new restaurant guide, the Gault-Millau, or Le Nouveau Guide. Molecular cuisine, is a modern style of cooking which takes advantage of many technical innovations from the scientific disciplines (molecular cooking). The term was coined in 1999 by the French INRA chemist Hervé This because he wanted to distinguish it from the name Molecular gastronomy (a scientific activity) that was introduced by him and the late Oxford physicist Nicholas Kurti in 1988. It is also named as multi sensory cooking, modernist cuisine, culinary physics, and experimental cuisine by some chefs. Besides, international trade brings new foodstuffs including ingredients to existing cuisines and leads to changes. The introduction of hot pepper to China from South America around the end of the 17th century, greatly influencing Sichuan cuisine, which combines the original taste (with use of Sichuan pepper) with the taste of newly introduced hot pepper and creates a unique mala (麻辣) flavor that's mouth-numbingly spicy and pungent.

Global cuisine
A global cuisine is a cuisine that is practiced around the world, and can be categorized according to the common use of major foodstuffs, including grains, produce and cooking fats.

Regional diversity
Regional cuisines can vary based on availability and usage of specific ingredients, local cooking traditions and practices, as well as overall cultural differences. Such factors can be more-or-less uniform across wide swaths of territory, or vary intensely within individual regions. For example, in Central and North South America, corn (maize), both fresh and dried, is a staple food, and is used in many different ways. In northern Europe, wheat, rye, and fats of animal origin predominate, while in southern Europe olive oil is ubiquitous and rice is more prevalent. In Italy, the cuisine of the north, featuring butter and rice, stands in contrast to that of the south, with its wheat pasta and olive oil. In some parts of China, rice is the staple, while in others this role is filled by noodles and bread. Throughout the Middle East and Mediterranean, common ingredients include lamb, olive oil, lemons, peppers, and rice. The vegetarianism practiced in much of India has made pulses (crops harvested solely for the dry seed) such as chickpeas and lentils as important as wheat or rice. From India to Indonesia, the extensive use of spices is characteristic; coconuts and seafood are also used throughout the region both as foodstuffs and as seasonings.

African cuisine

African cuisines use a combination of locally available fruits, cereals and vegetables, as well as milk and meat products. In some parts of the continent, the traditional diet features a preponderance of milk, curd and whey products. In much of tropical Africa, however, cow's milk is rare and cannot be produced locally (owing to various diseases that affect livestock). The continent's diverse demographic makeup is reflected in the many different eating and drinking habits, dishes, and preparation techniques of its manifold populations.

Asian cuisines

Due to Asia's vast size and extremely diverse geography and demographics, Asian cuisines are many and varied, and include East Asian cuisine, South Asian cuisine, Southeast Asian cuisine, Central Asian cuisine and West Asian cuisine. Ingredients common to East Asia and Southeast Asia (due to overseas Chinese influence) include rice, ginger, garlic, sesame seeds, chilies, dried onions, soy, and tofu, with stir frying, steaming, and deep frying being common cooking methods. While rice is common to most regional cuisines in Asia, different varieties are popular in the different regions: Basmati rice is popular in South Asia, Jasmine rice in Southeast Asia, and long-grain rice in China and short-grain rice in Japan and Korea. Curry is also a common ingredient found in South Asia, Southeast Asia, and East Asia (notably Japanese curry); however, they are not popular in West Asian and Central Asian cuisines. Those curry dishes with origins in South Asia usually have a yogurt base, with origins in Southeast Asia a coconut milk base, and in East Asia a stewed meat and vegetable base. South Asian cuisine and Southeast Asian cuisine are often characterized by their extensive use of spices and herbs native to the tropical regions of Asia.

European cuisine

European cuisine (alternatively, "Western cuisine") include the cuisines of Europe and other Western countries. European cuisine includes non-indigenous cuisines of North America, Australasia, Oceania, and Latin America as well. The term is used by East Asians to contrast with East Asian styles of cooking. When used in English, the term may refer more specifically to cuisine in (Continental) Europe; in this context, a synonym is Continental cuisine.

Oceanian cuisine

Oceanian cuisines include Australian cuisine, New Zealand cuisine, and cuisines from many other islands or island groups throughout Oceania. Australian cuisine consists of immigrant Anglo-Celtic derived cuisine, and Bushfood prepared and eaten by native Aboriginal Australian peoples, and various newer Asian influences. New Zealand cuisine also consists of European inspired dishes, such as Pavlova, and native Māori cuisine. Across Oceania, staples include the Kūmura and Taro, which was/is a staple from Papua New Guinea to the South Pacific. On most islands in the south pacific, fish are widely consumed because of the proximity to the ocean.

Cuisines of the Americas

The cuisines of the Americas are found across North and South America, and are based on the cuisines of the countries from which the immigrant people came from, primarily Europe. However, the traditional European cuisine has been adapted by the addition of many local and native ingredients, and many of their techniques have been added to traditional foods as well. Native American cuisine is prepared by indigenous populations across the continent, and its influences can be seen on multi-ethnic Latin American cuisine. Many staple foods have been seen to be eaten across the continent, such as corn (maize), beans, and potatoes have their own respective native origins. The regional cuisines are North American cuisine, Mexican cuisine, Central American cuisine, South American cuisine, and Caribbean cuisine.

title: Cuisine


text:
Portal:Current events/October 2003

October 2003 was the tenth month of that common year. The month, which began on a Wednesday, ended on a Friday after 31 days.

Portal:Current events
This is an archived version of Wikipedia's Current events Portal from October 2003.

title: Portal:Current events/October 2003


text:
Talk:Current events/Archive 3

General exhortation
An important reason to put some effort into Current events is that many people use search engines to find information on current events. Probably a very significant percentage of searches on Yahoo, Google, etc., on any given day, are on topics that are big at the moment. If we make an effort to add relevent links to the Current events page, and then make an effort to create good articles for whatever that page is linking to, we will be able to get lots of traffic from the search engines. We will also establish a reputation for being a place where people can come to find information on stuff that is happening right now.

So be bold in adding new topics to Current events, and feel free to improve the organization of the page.

On timezones
List, if possible and appropriate, local time and UTC for events. See [http://en2.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Current_events&oldid=1719431#What_timezone_is_used_for_events? earlier discusson].

Anti-US Reporting
There's nothing wrong with anti-US viewpoints per se, but please LABEL THEM as representing the POV of whoever said them.

 * What about pro-US viewpoints? // Liftarn

Polls
Nearly all polls have a margin of error of 3%, so reporting the exact 2-digit number is usually pointless. For example, 49% to 48% is the same as an even 50-50 split.

49 really means 49, plus or minus 3. Which comes out to 46 to 52 percent called the war pointless, while 45 to 51 percent called the war not pointless.

Note the overlap! --Uncle Ed 16:55, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Attacks on humanitarian workers
I keep an eye on this, and occasionally try to update it, but might I ask any current events minded folks to contribute cases to this list if they feel so inclined? Thanks!2toise 06:38, 12 Nov 2003 (UTC)

identity cards
Civil rights: The United Kingdom government announces plans to introduce identity cards, which are intended to eventually become compulsory.

Does anyone else think there are NPOV issues with labeling this as a "civil rights" issue? It could just as easily be considered a national security or anti-terrorism issue. -- stewacide 20:42, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Maybe this would be better:
 * United Kingdom: The government announces plans to introduce identity cards, which are intended to eventually become compulsory.
 * -- Viajero 21:06, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * I'd use "United Kingdom" for the intro, but it'll probably get removed ... reddi

 * 'fess up time – it was me who put it there (unaware that it had already been put in place by the original poster and deleted by the next person to come along). After giving it some thought, stewacide's probably right re NPOV. Sorry; I'll remove it. However, reddi is also right about geographical identifiers like United Kingdom: getting deleted (see archived discussion re context). –User:Hajor 21:30, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Hmmm, maybe civil liberties is more accurate after all. Anyway, I created a separate file with that archive discussion (see top) since I wanted to review the discussion. Anyone want to tweak the examples? -- Viajero 22:25, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

California Recall Election
Nov. 15th is the last day for the CA sec of state to certify the results of the recall election. Remember, the one Schwarzenegger won, beating Davis AND another Republican candidate combined?

Anyone care to take bets on whether the Democrats will actually let Schwarzenegger assume the office? Or will a "last-minute" court order bring a delay? Uncle Ed 21:45, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Tsk, tsk. He will be sworn in at 11AM Pacific time on Monday. I know because I have to convert over a state website that I maintain to a different format and upload those changes exactly at 11AM. However I'm going to do that early on Monday morning so that I can see him get sworn-in on the steps of the capitol building in Sacramento. Hopefull I'll be able to get a good photo. --mav 22:00, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Wow, mav! You're like Gandalf: "Always popping up..." ;-) --Uncle Ed 14:40, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Mirror Poll?
Could anyone find a link to the following ...

 * A British Daily Mirror opinion poll suggests nearly half the people of the United Kingdom see the United States as the biggest threat to world peace and are opposed to President Bush's state visit to the UK.

I tried to search for a link [google and on the mirror's website], but to no avail. Is it really "nearly half"? I know the general "Bush's state visit" is right (and can be sourced easily) ... but the other need a link .... reddi

 * I managed to find it and have linked to it. It say nearly half in the article but doesn't seem to give an exact figure for that poll question. -- Popsracer 20:38, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I put in the initial report on from a report on the front page on Sky News. When I wrote it no links to the Mirror had yet been put on the net. FearÉIREANN 20:51, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Both sides?
Regarding my removal of, as you (user:Reddi) put it, the "pentagon view": The Current Events page should not be some kind of forum for posting points of view on News articles. It is about the News itself. I don't think that it is a good idea to post responses by involved parties if they don't contain significant relevant information that has not already been said. What if we added the view of Chief Justice of Alabama Roy Moore to the short blurb about his being fired? What if this happened with every short entry saying that something has happened? If this continues we'll be writing entire news stories pretty soon. Which I don't think Current Events is designed to do. --snoyes 01:28, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * News itself? leave out the pentagon's view? the view of the pentagon is part of the story ... [only the press view is not NPOV]
 * as to the "add X's comment" ... do it, if it part of the story (as conscisely as possible) ...
 * every short entry? pending the entry, may be needed ...
 * entire news stories? no ... not really, just giving both a claim (which should be done to al-jez's story too)
 * ... a short sentence of what the pentagon response was should be stated [otherwise it one sided]
 * sincerely, reddi

 * I respect efforts to limit the current events section to news rather than commentary (which would almost always reflect some bias). But what do we do about biased commentators who can make news?  An obvious example is Bush.  It is a deeper question than whether or not we cover his editorial-style speeches, but are "major events" which are triggered and timed simply to generate biased propaganda really newsworthy?  Probably a useless qusetion but one to keep in mind when the news itself has bias independent of its representation.
 * Galexander 01:56, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

help file expanded
I have renamed and expanded the help file for this page:

 * How the Current events page works

Any additional examples of context (good/bad) or other issues would be most useful. -- Viajero 19:29, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Nice.

 * I've just taken the "one or two sentence" guideline from the top of the article and fleshed it out in its own subsection. Basically, it stresses the virtues of brevity in these entries – which, as I understand it, should be a line or two intended to whet the reader's appetite for the main, linked article from the news site (or a lengthier article in our own space). Is that something we would all want to agree on?
 * – User:Hajor 01:40, 15 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Nope ... don't agree on the "rules" there ... see that pages talk (as I tried to discuss this before and was "dismissed abritarily" by "opinion" on high)... It need to be discussed more ... Sincerely, reddi

What is news?
Apparently, each and every time terrorists manage to kill a couple of GIs this is news, and merits a separate, front-page story.

But if president Bush makes a statement indicative of US policy, and how it may or may not be affected by this unrelenting campaign of terror, this is NOT news!

I don't get it: why is each casualty news, when there is nothing new about it? But when Bush breaks weeks of silence to comment on it, this is NOT? --Uncle Ed 19:43, 14 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Of course simply because current events is american-centric. There is no way to change it as long as there are too many American contributors proportional to other nationals. -- Taku

 * It's easy to change - if you care, just write your news and change others. It's wiki. One person who really care outweights thousands of unconcerned. Don't complain, ACT instead! Drbug 11:02, 15 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Yeah, great, that's just what we need, Wiki-vigilantes. Get into an edit war with everyone else, and show your tenacity -- or lack of anything better to do -- by imposing your idea of what's news regardless of others' opinions. Hey, you're the center of the world, so prove it! I'll be off turning Easter Bradford into a stub. orthogonal 06:10, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Removal: Dutch trade union comment piece

 * Trade unions in the Netherlands agree to two-year wage freeze. Parallel to the wage freeze, the government has implemented a programme of public spending cuts unprecedented in the history of the country.

That source is FAR from impartial (...the Dutch economy is in deep crisis. The response by the unions and management is to undertake new attacks on the working class...), and a Google News search doesn't turn up any similar stories. I'm guessing this is a commentary on something that happened a while ago (i.e. not news). -- stewacide 19:48, 15 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * You are right, it is actually from 14 October: http://www.rnw.nl/hotspots/html/ned031015.html -- Viajero 20:21, 15 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Removal: London première of Master and Commander
I have removed: I wouldn't call it a current event every time a new movie starring someone's favorite actor comes out or someone's favorite band releases a new album. 2003 in film and 2003 in music, respectively, would be more appropriate places. Mkweise 00:05, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * Movies: Russell Crowe attended the London premiere of his movie Master and Commander.

 * Good move. No matter how many times stuff like that is removed and the inserters told that it does not belong on this page, the same people keep putting it in. It is getting annoying. (But not as farcical as annoucing, as one user did, that a particular cartoon was premiering on a US cartoon network. That really was weird in the extreme!) FearÉIREANN 01:36, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * does not belong? YMMV on that ... getting annoying? [chuckles]
 * Just a note: particular cartoon -> star wars cartoon; not a US cartoon network [can we say "distortion"?], it was/is an international network; ... YMMV on how interesting / topical entertainment news is ... it does introduce topics for wikipedia. Just an opinion ... "Not an irish drunk"

I just removed: I mean, most sports events, especially those of not exactly world news significance, should rather be placed under in sports than under Current events. --Wernher 20:33, 16 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * Reigning American League MVP Alex Rodriguez is traded from the Texas Rangers to the New York Yankees for Alfonso Soriano.

What does "level-pegging" mean?
Can someone explain what "level-pegging" means? RickK 02:30, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * It means "equal". E.g. "the Yankees and the Bulls are level-pegging after the third-quarter/at the bottom of the sixth" means the score is level/all-square/equal after the third quarter/six innings. Pete 10:09, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Comes from the game of Cribbage.
 * James F. (talk) 17:55, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Relevance of content?
I would like this page to become so useful that I turn to it for news first, rather than having to use The Washington Times or the Drudge Report.

However, there are problems. People put random stuff on the page that doesn't seem "relevant", and there's often no connection with wikipedia articles. Also, the headlines, links and summaries are far too often slanted, the most common slant being anti-US or anti-Bush or anti-Republican or pro-gay.

The solution is not to retaliate with a more conservative slant, but to write neutral summaries, headlines and links.

But this is a lot more work than I'm prepared to do right now. --Uncle Ed 16:29, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Thats really interesting because I notice bias the other way. But then I read the Guardian. Secretlondon 16:31, Nov 19, 2003 (UTC)

 * Please point out some examples of pro-US, pro-Bush, pro-Republican or anti-gay bias. I will immediately help stamp out such things. --Uncle Ed 16:33, 19 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * So will I. I will immediately stamp out any pro-science and pro-neutral comments, or anything socially integrative.  Perhaps sexuality-neutral comments, like "pro-gay" comments should be excluded, and while we're at it, we should probably rule out any "pro-mankind" statements as well, or "pro-npov" statements.

 * Then we should watch out for "pro-truth" statements, such as statements that reveal "blatent contradictions between republican rhetoric and established scientific knowledge", unless, ofcourse, we want to be "pro-truth" (which would be a little slanted, of course) And we definitely shouldn't say anything like "George Bush's environmental policies have been 'retrogressive'." -that might mislead people a little: they might actually think that he's reversed legislation!  How could we say such a thing?  It's so subjective!  It's like saying 2+2=4!  We should really be a little more carefull.

 * I will certainly watch out for such "partiality". I wouldn't want to corrupt the minds of the youth.  --Kevin Baas

 * To Kevin Baas -- You are way out of line. Mocking people you disagree with doesn't make you right. Wikipedia is not a place to fight over your moral (or amoral) stance.  Reasonable people do and have disagreed about matters of appropriate sexual practice and about the appropriate role of government. Your cold amorality is just as subjective a POV. User: MPS

Looking for recent events
I was looking for links to a news event that occurred earlier this month and ran into a snag. Most links like this are listed by month like October 2003. There's also a page, Current Events, with links to the news events of the past week. But when I tried to go to November 2003 I was redirected to Current Events. The effect of this is that I couldn't find links for the dates between November 1-10. Are they located elsewhere? MK 20:13 (EST) 19 November 2003

 * Current Events is supposed to cover the whole month. Unfortunately it seems that when 35.8.131.155 edited it at 2104 UTC tonight his/her browser truncated the article at 32K. Anyway, I have restored the "lost" news, so please try again. -- Arwel 02:17, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Shouldn't we do something to split the page down to a reasonable size? Andrewa 03:09, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * We could implement a sort of 'moving window' of the last fortnight or so, with each day being archived as it 'falls off the edge', as it were, but that would required 29.5 +/- 1.5 archivings a month rather than 1, and so entail that bit more work...
 * James F. 20:13, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * I'd do about 23 of them (assuming someone else doesn't do that first). And it makes sense to me. --MadEwokHerd 20:50, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * Definively we need to do something. Now it has an excessive size (240 kb). Maybe we could implement some kind of automatization for this... IMO, events of only the last week should be enough.Bogdan 20:56, 25 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Ummmmmm....are there any objections to using the "moving window" thing in some form? We have a few weeks before we'd want to start doing that.. MadEwokHerd 21:11, 3 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Possible addition: French & German Student Strikes
I was going to add the following, but I wanted to be sure people would think it worthy of inclusion first. It seems to have been completely overlooked by the (mainstream) English-speaking press, but I'm not sure why - it seems like quite a big deal to me. I thought maybe Wikipedia could break the mould, but I'm not sure how to gather the necessary background etc.

 * French and German university students continue to hold protests, including strikes, over controversial policies such as tuition fees. German students also occupied the central offices of the PDS in Berlin, following a similar protest earlier in the week in which 30 to 40 students occupied the office of Thomas Flierl for more than 24 hours.  Protests in both countries have been continuing to spread for the last two weeks.

I've only found a couple of references in English: There's plenty in the German press - for example, - but neither my German nor automatic translation services like Babelfish and Freetranslation) are quite good enough.  Anyone got any thoughts or suggestions?

 * "30 to 40 students"?..... --Menchi 23:50, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Well, I was reading conflicting reports on badly machine-translated German news - besides, maybe some of them got bored of standing in the guy's office for 24 hours! (But yes, it probably needs rewording). Oh, and I seem to have forgotten to sign it! - IMSoP 03:34, 29 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Month roll-over.
Well, I finally remembered that the Talk: page shouldn't have been moved (oops ;-)), so the monthly roll-over is done; if anyone's interested, there were 1126 edits to Current Events between when it was moved to October 2003 and when to November 2003. James F. 12:12, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

It's the 2nd of December here. Do I have to wait till the clock ticks over on Wikipedia time to add something new under the 2nd? Dysprosia 23:10, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

I take the view that it is December 2 in Australia, and it's up to the rest of the world to catch up with us. Adam 23:23, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)
 * If only you would stop blinking spinning for a few hours, we would! Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 23:26, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)
 * More seriously, a review of archived discussion on this suggests there is no set in stone policy.. I suggest the policy

 * 1) List events under the local date (e.g. an early morning event in Australia on 2nd December would be listed on 2nd December even if UTC is still 1st December)
 * 2) There is no need for UTC to be on that date yet/anymore when you make the listing. (e.g. it can still be 1st December UTC when you make the listing in the above example. Equally a late-night event in California should be listed under 1st December even though UTC might be 2nd December)
 * 3) If you note a particular time in the event report please try to list both local and UTC times."

Any objections? Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 23:40, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Sounds good :) Dysprosia 23:42, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Insignificant events (for an encyclopedia)
I removed the following:

 * Everything2 is now back up at as a temporary site.

The relaunch of a website is not a current events topic, anymore than the launch of a film, an album or anything else like that is. This page is about news, not advertising a website. FearÉIREANN 23:45, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Re someone's description of a premier being acclaimed into power, there is no such term constitutionally. You can be elected, elected unchallenged, elected unanimously, appointed, etc but you cannot be acclaimed into power. Just because a newspaper uses the term doesn't mean an encyclopædia can. We are supposed to use NPOV factual language. FearÉIREANN 23:45, 10 Dec 2003 (UTC)

External link format
Hi, re my 12 December item on EU defence policy etc: is there some convention on ext.lk. format on current events? I notice someone has changed the links from the usual [1][2] format to a descriptive format [lk text][lk text]. Explanation, anyone? --Wernher 12:46, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * I hadn't seen the way you had it — "[10] (defence policy), [11] (EU constitution)" — before, and I wasn't convinced, so I experimented with another approach. Perhaps it didn't work. I've just tried again; if this is ruled ugly or against convention, please feel free to revert and accept my apologies. –User:Hajor 14:39, 14 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Current events or Breaking news?
Its not a proposal, only an idea of mine. Like I said its not a proposal, I dont neccesarily think the name SHOULD be changed, but Ive been thinking for a very long time that what we do at the current events page is essentially breaking the news.

What do you all think? Shall the page name be changed?

--Antonio Phenomenom Martin

Disagree. The stuff stays for a month. It's hardly breaking news by the end of the month. RickK 04:27, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

All our stuff is second-handed! Some are so seconded that we're basically the last news-oid website to talk about. And many important stuff are not included. It is not breaking anybody. --Menchi (Talk)ü| â 04:33, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Jackson Islam - maybe hoax?
Hmm, the Nation of Islam story sounds a bit like a 1999 hoax which said his brother Jermaine had joined the nation. Curiouser and curiouser. -- Finlay McWalter 00:56, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)

It's noteworthy that most of the major sources (BBC, CNN, reuters etc.) didn't pick up on the story. -- Finlay McWalter 12:54, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)
 * Nice journalism on this one. None of the "reputable" news sources who reported it seemed to be aware of its hoaxy aroma ;) chocolateboy 12:51, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)
 * True. Found one, though. I bet there'll be a few red faces at The Scotsman  this morning:
 * Fox News's [sic] reported that Jackson's brother Jermaine, who converted to Islam in 1989, has brought Farrakhan's chief of staff into the star's inner circle as a "bodyguard".

 * ;) chocolateboy 13:15, 19 Dec 2003 (UTC)

New layout proposal
I think we should start thinking about ways to improve the layout of this page. As we get 10 or more items per day, it becomes almost impossible to read the current events. This is much easier to see for a regular reader than for a regular contributor -- contributors are used to the format and probably check the page frequently so they see new items as they are added. Readers, on the other hand, are hit with a bulletpoint list of items that is very difficult to read by subject. Generally we violate established usability principles if we put more than 6 or 7 items in a list, and in a long list with much text this is even more problematic.

I played around with a table layout. I'm using HTML right now because I had problems reproducing the same layout with Magnus' syntax, but it probably can be done. Even in HTML it should be reasonably convenient to edit as you can use section editing to grab any individual category. In this layout, when there are no news for a category, the section can be commented out or grayed out. (Careful with commenting out, you'll run into a section editing bug unless you also substitute the == markers.)

I'd like to hear your feedback on this proposal. I think we really need to move forward on this if we want to maintain scalability of the page.—Eloquence 01:18, Dec 20, 2003 (UTC)

Comments on proposal
Judging from the past WP-news, the politics box will always be 3 times bigger than the other box. This table will look ugly w/ a filled part and 5 empty parts. --Menchi (Talk)ü| â 01:27, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * This could be addressed by using ROWSPAN, i.e. making the cell span several rows when that is the case.—Eloquence

 * Please no tables! It is also a really bad idea to have pre-defined categories. --mav 01:52, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * What's wrong with tables, Mav? The categories need not be pre-defined. They can be handled flexibly.—Eloquence

 * Tables are hard to edit. Since this is the most edited article on Wikipedia it needs to be easy to edit. The categories can't be edited flexibly by anybody not familiar with HTML. --mav

 * As I already wrote, the same table could probably be realized in Magnus' simplified syntax. I pulled it off the first time, then lost the edit in the clipboard and did not manage to do it the second time. But even with HTML editing is not that difficult because you can simply edit the section of the category where you want to add an item, and you see virtually no HTML. This also applies to changing the title of a section.—Eloquence 02:22, Dec 20, 2003 (UTC)

 * Even a wiki table is hard to edit since it adds needless complexity to this page (and tables are a place for tabular data not prose!). Look at all that wasted white space above for the unfilled categories. Keep it simple please. --mav

 * Tables are useful as a layout element. Keeping it simple is good, but the current layout is not simple. It's a complex mess of items that have nothing to do with one another. One bullet point is the Linux kernel, the next the capture of Sadadm. Sorry, but that is extremely unprofessional and not scalable. So if you don't like the above layout I'd like to hear counter suggestion on making this page readable. —Eloquence

 * The page is perfectly readable to me. It is ordered by the time things happen; a summary of news for that day. The use of tables for layout of prose is most unwiki and only should be used in very special cases (such as the Main Page). It is not something to be encouraged by having the most edited article in the entire project use tables for layout of prose. Again, tables are for tabular data, not prose. --mav 16:11, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * It's readable if you want to read all the news of the day item by item (although it lacks whitespace). It's not if you want to limit yourself to certain categories. "Tables are for tabular data, not prose" is a silly dogma and does not become more true by repeating it. Tables are for layout and data. You can use CSS if you prefer that but the result is the same. As I've already explained, editing is easy if you use section editing. At the very least we should separate the day items into subsections.—Eloquence 16:22, Dec 20, 2003 (UTC)

 * Wiki is not a silly dogma and not everybody uses section editing. You are proposing to add complexity to this page by placing prose in tables. This is a dangerous precedent for a page that is edited as often as Current events. It is not something that should be encouraged (otherwise people will start adding tables - wiki or HTML - to add visual appeal to regular articles). --mav

 * "extremely unprofessional and not scalable"?

 * The Wall Street Journal
 * Lycos
 * CNN

 * chocolateboy 16:06, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Far narrower focus, shorter paragraphs and clustered by priority.—Eloquence

 * There are lots of sites that use the tabular layout to good effect e.g. the BBC, Google and Yahoo. But I don't think that's any reason to use bogus technical arguments ("extremely unprofessional and not scalable") to defend what is otherwise a reasonable usability proposal. The current layout is the standard way of representing RSS-style "breaking" newsfeeds. Of the 3 links I cited, only the WSJ has a (marginally) narrower focus; its paragraphs are the same length as those on Current_events; and, as far as I can see, none of those pages are "clustered by priority". chocolateboy 16:52, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * There's nothing bogus here. Wikipedia reports marginal regional political news from Ireland, limited interest stuff from the Linux community, minor sports events and major political developments all on the same hierarchical level. That is unprofessional as readers who know nothing about Linux will suddenly be confronted with news about it immediately after reading about some major event. That's what you would expect in a school paper but not on a real news site. That's why newspapers have these priority clusters -- frontpage news, small backpage items etc. -- which are often mirrored in the online editions.

 * The WSJ focuses on major political/economy stories, CNN presents major "breaking news" as they happen (without summaries - just links), primarily politics. The Lycos page is really just a dump of the AP newsfeed and as such not very useful at all. With "clustered by priority" I mean that except for Lycos, these kind of pages serve to present major news, and the minor news will usually be listed somewhere else (not even on the same page) or not at all.

 * As for the paragraph length, the longest paragraph on the WSJ page is 235 chars. The longest paragraph on ours is 677 chars. Note that our page uses the full screen width so paragraphs do not appear as long. The scalability argument applies because our lists simply keep getting longer and longer -- that is not the case with the WSJ (the only link of yours to provide real news summaries) as they limit themselves to 6-7 stories, incidentally the same number I recommended. They remove the summaries as stories get older and finally archive the stories. We have an archiving system for months, but not for days (we don't need one, in my opinion, but we need better separation of content to make it easier to navigate).—Eloquence

 * Fair enough for the most part, although I don't think the Linux story is a very good example. It's easy to find similar juxtapositions on all three of those sites. (As an aside: what hope have we of laying out the "front page" correctly if we can't even lay out a readable discussion thread? ;) And re: "unprofessional" ("That's what you would expect in a school paper but not on a real news site"): you obviously went to a better school than I did! ;) chocolateboy 17:27, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

That RIAA story falls under all six categories ;) chocolateboy 01:58, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * Not really. Even if it did there's almost always a dominant component.—Eloquence

Well, I was reaching with "Science & Health"... But 5 out of 6 aint bad!

I think it would look good if it was non-sparse and more or less symmetrical. I don't think it would be, though, very often. If there was some kind of unique id or URI for each news item then one could set up a bespoke "remix" of the news by "transcluding" items off the main page. e.g. Current_events_(categories), Current_events_(lite) &c. Maybe pursue implement that as an RFE?

chocolateboy 02:34, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * The page is getting unwieldy. The table was a bold attempt at addressing that, but I think it would also create too many additional problems (forced categorization, requiring table skills, etc).  A couple of suggestions:
 * Move the "See Also" sidebar either to the top of the page or to between today's and yesterday's stories – that would give us a wider column to work with and would improve readability.
 * It's nearly 2004, probably a good moment for this change: as of 1 January 2004, start daily news pages: News: 01 January 2004 etc. If we were to do that, it would also be easier to follow some sort of categorization scheme like User:Eloquence proposed in his table.
 * I'm intrigued by User:Chocolateboy's Current_events_(lite) proposal, but I also suspect that it would only encourage frivolous contributions and fluff stories. Still, I firmly believe that most sports, entertainment, celeb (Keiko!), etc. news does not belong on this page: better to have it somewhere else, anywhere else?
 * Thoughts? –User:Hajor 16:40, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * I was thinking of "lite" in terms of bandwidth/graphics/eye-candy rather than content. But each to his own ;) If news items were transcludable, usability/accessibility gurus could then (experimentally) curate them into their own custom version of the page. If such an alternative layout caught on, then a simple appeal to statistics (more people are using this than the default version!) is, presumably, all it would take to get such a project elected as the default layout. chocolateboy 17:05, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

 * I misunderstood you. But I have since read Transclusion and the idea is intriguing. –User:Hajor 17:20, 20 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Greek news?
Sometimes I add some Greek news. Unfortunately very few times I can give links to English language news sources and I am sorry for this. I want your opinion on this, do you find these news without an English link useful and interesting? Do you think it would be better not to list news without a reference to a English language news source? Thanks. Optim 16:36, 14 Jan 2004 (UTC)

 * I think it's fine to include news without any English-language external links to back them up. If there are no other English-language sources out there, then Wikipedia might be appreciated more. Of course, the news still have to be "newsworthy," but the lack of an English-language link does not make them any less so. Dori | Talk 16:47, Jan 14, 2004 (UTC)

 * Yeah I agree. But if it ain't in English there should be some text in parens next to the link saying so. I think Optim has been doing this, so all is well. --mav 11:41, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

 * Thank you for your answers! Optim 18:02, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

News Sources
In the interest of saving space, the lengthy list of external news sources and collections should be removed from this page. There should instead be a reference to News agency, and News agency should house all these lists. Kingturtle 10:13, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

 * Sounds like a good idea to me. But then that may overwhelm news agency with external links... Worth a try anyway. --mav 11:55, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

 * We could always go with List of news agencies...
 * James F. (talk) 16:12, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

inaccuracy?
Regarding NASA cancelling Hubble servicing: I had read, both in the new york times and the milwaukee journal sentinel, that The servicee missions were cancelled because of Bush's plans to go to the moon, and then mars.

It says in on this page that they were cancelled because of safety concerns. That sounds like a load of *BS*. That's an expensive friggin' piece of machinery, you do not leave it to die prematurely unless there is some major policy-change.

And two service missions? What could be unsafe about both? Obviously not the launch, because we know nothing about the launch conditions of the second launch. Obviously not the actual in-space repair, we've done far more difficult repairs before without a hitch or concern. By process of elimation, that leaves, nothing! -- Kevin Baas 16:35, 18 Jan 2004 (UTC)

 * I shared your concern. To allay it, I managed to find this New York Times article that explains it near the bottom.  O'Keefe said there wouldn't be enough time, as the A.P. reported, to conduct the missions before retiring the Shuttle in 2010.  NYT explains that there wouldn't be enough time to develop a new procedure for inspecting the heat shield on a mission not going to the space station.  (From the station, it's pretty easy to have astronauts on the station look out the window at the passing Shuttle, but when there's no astronaut out the window, getting a good look at the tiles on the bottom is a problem.) -- Ke4roh 02:35, 19 Jan 2004 (UTC)

 * Why is it not going to the space station? -- Kevin Baas 20:15, 20 Jan 2004 (UTC)

 * NASA is telling us that the shuttle is only going to the space station. When it goes there, astronauts remaining on the station can inspect the heat shield as the Shuttle departs. The International Space Station (ISS) and Hubble Space Telescope (HST) are in completely different orbits.  Due to limited fuel, when a Shuttle goes to HST, it generally cannot get over to ISS, and vice versa.  To see where satellites (including ISS and HST) are in space, check out JTrack 3D. -- Ke4roh 00:40, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Only because they don't want to have an emergency fuel reserve at the ISS. If they did, the shuttle could go to HST first, then to ISS for refueling and heat shield inspection. Obviously it wouldn't be able to do a HST-ISS-home circuit for every ISS mission, but there could be some. - UtherSRG 20:41, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Prose: "M & wife F get child" vs "M's wife F gives birth to child"
Hi, I just wondered whether the two alternative patterns of prose in the heading of this comment is equivalent (and both usable), and if one of them is preferable. I know the usage in Norwegian, but wonder about the possible usages in English. --Wernher 20:33, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * I like this one better: "M's wife F gives birth to child" Sennheiser 21:11, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

 * In English, the second is better. Better yet is "A, wife of B, gave birth to a C" as in "Diana, wife of Prince Charles, gave birth to a boy on .... 19xx.  The child, William, is ... in line of succession to the crown"  From the CBC via Google "The royal couple didn't keep their public waiting. Princess Diana gave birth to William Arthur Philip Louis on June 21, 1982, less than a year after they were married." OneVoice 03:05, 23 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not in the news
I removed this bit:
 * At 00:42 UTC, the English language Wikipedia hits 200,000 articles when User:SimonMayer creates Neil Warnock. See also Celebrating 200,000 for response.

This is what Announcements is for. --mav

 * …and the Main Page, apparently… —Mulad 02:58, 2 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * I was being sarcastic —Mulad 03:04, 2 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * I removed that as well. Given our server situation we would be brought down and may even loose a few days edits if the server crashed due to excessive load. --mav

US Draft-dodging as news
Regarding whether or not the decrease of 80% in refusal, draft dodging and insubordation is news was decided when the September 24th, 2003 and January 4, 2004 incidents of two groups refusing to serve was added to Current events. OneVoice 16:15, 3 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Goodridge et al.

 * Of course, nevermind; it's already done! Thanks as always, Kimiko!  Paige 21:09, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Star Wars
Link to the pending release of Star Wars on DVD was removed... reason was given as "not current event". Now, I'm open to the assertion that since it isn't going to be released until Sept. 21, it's not terribly CURRENT, but the fact is the announcement IS. Since the selling of the trilogy on DVD is almost certainly a billion dollar plus economic event, it's certainly of import. I would also imagine that there are going to be several records broken (in terms of pre-orders/pre-sales) in the coming hours. What do other people think? --Dante Alighieri | Talk 19:31, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * The US economy is on the order of $11 trillion a year. What is one billion? A rounding error! This simply isn't front page news. Let's revist the matter on September 21. -- Viajero 20:06, 10 Feb 2004 (UTC)

"Pro-family"?
"pro-family" is a bit POV, but I'm unsure how to reword it. Dysprosia 09:38, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)

"marriage"
Okay, I'm getting in a minor little tiff with User:Reddi about quoting and italicizing text regarding same-sex marriage. This might be aggravated on my end by the fact that I stayed up way past my bedtime tonight, so I'm just going to say this and stay away for a while (plus I'll be gone for about a week soon, so that will prevent me from tweaking bits all over Wikipedia...) I recognize that Reddi has been a good contributor to many areas of the site, so I don't want to make this blow up. He just seems to have different opinions than I do on homosexuality, etc. Anyway, this might also be a good time to discuss the general quoting style on this page.

Personally, I generally don't both quote and italicize text at the same time. There are occasions when I find it useful, like when long quotes are being used in a text. I also think it's nice to be able to set off quoted text (i.e. things people have said, or text from another source, etc.) from other short phrases that are being introduced. When this sort of mixed text exists, I might quote the quotes (see, I'm sleepy..) but italicize phrases and words. Whatever, blah blah blah. However, when I see a word that is fairly commonly used, such as civil marriage (being marriage performed by a civic official rather than a religious cleric), if I see it just in quotes or just italicized, I expect it to be talking about civil marriage rather than stating that the event happened or whatever (...this is what we call "civil marriage"...). When quotes are used on a phrase that is being used in proper context (...the couple was joined in a "civil marriage" ceremony...) I tend to see it as a demeaning thing (unless the phrase is very rarely used). And when I see the phrase in both quotes and italics, I tend to get a little angry...

I'm willing to concede that the word marriage was quoted in that one article, though again, I would recommend just quoting or italicizing, not both.

Anyway, I'll let this be up to the community. I plan to avoid editing pages on related topics for a while, and like I said, I'll be away soon. —Mulad 12:17, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Mulad, doing both quoting and italicizing text for phrases and quotes is done in wikipedia (from what I've seen). I quote and italicize text to both offset it and re-enforce the that it's the quote or phrase. "civil marriage" is a phrase and that is why I frmt it that way ... not to be "as a demeaning" thing ... this is an example: "civil marriage" is rather new [a neologism of which isn't seen  much] and used to relay the concept of "homosexual marriage" ...
 * ... Sorry you get angry with it (that isn't my intent) ... and, thankfully, my state will never have to deal with this phrase (with this context) ...
 * As to letting this be up to the "community", that's fine ... a guide would be nice (but only as a guide; not a rule to be obeyed "ad nauseum") ...
 * Sincerely, JDR [PS. ... italicizing for emphasis; quoting for literals]

Kerry sex scandal
The correct source for the Kerry sex scandal story is a newspaper in the UK -- not Matt Drudge. But it's not worth having an edit war over this.

Drudge may have brought the story to prominence at his website, but I think the Wikipedia should give credit to the Sun rather than to Drudge.

Also, the Sun said Dean might re-enter the race. I hope no one censors this info. It shouldn't be deleted unless you really think the Sun got it wrong. --Uncle Ed 16:36, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Drudge was the first to break the news; it was actually reported on his website yesterday (along with a number of local media sources), not the 13th. I'll fix that. There are a number of online sources that could be referred to for the story besides the UK's Sun. If anyone does cite the story to Drudge's website, exercise care since Drudge's main "news" page is changed often throughout the day.B 17:22, Feb 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes The Sun quotes Drudge as the source, not other way round. I had a mini-revert session with myself but it should be ok now.... Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 17:27, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)

This is not news. There is nothing of substance to report. Wikipedia is not a rumor-mill, and we are not a platform for the likes of Matt Drudge. If there's information from a reputable source, we can report that, but just rumors about "some sex scandal" should be left to the yellow press.—Eloquence 00:37, Feb 15, 2004 (UTC)

US policy change
This may be a major change in US policy to go from negotiation only, no unilaterial moves to supporting a unilateral move. Such a change of policy after years (decades?) of insisting on negotiation means an explanation. The NYT quotes of administrator officials provide that explanation. OneVoice 20:44, 13 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Bush's Nat. Guard service
Hi, are the Feb 14 and Feb 13 news items on this matter actually the same, and so should be merged, or is there a reason to keep'em on separate dates? Just wondering. And while I'm at it, I have noticed what might look like a USA=The World™ bias re this and other items as contributors seem to think National Guard is perfectly equal to U.S. National Guard... --Wernher 20:05, 14 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * The date, IIRC, should be the day it occurs ... but I think that it was in the evening, so it's the 14 wiki-time (like it's still the 14th here, but the time on CE reads the 15th) ... so I'm not sure ... hopefully, someone will answer this; I think it was brought up before [ie., time o' event/date posted to], so you may wanna see the archives. JDR

Splitting the current events page?
Every month's article since August 2003 is listed on Longpages. And they're only going to get longer as more users contribute news items. What are people's feelings on having a seperate article for each day (e.g. February 17, 2004, with redirs from February 17th, 2004, 17 February, 2004, etc.), just keeping the past few days on Current events? 143.167.77.62 20:11, 17 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * I think that is a very sensible idea. Should go down to a week at first, and then as the page gets longer and longer reduce it. Allows for the future, and would allow a more professional look for current events. ChrisG 21:44, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Current events page bug?
Hi, I realize there aren't very many of us Opera (browser) users, but am I the only one who gets a messed up header on the Current events page? Specifically, the top-of-the-page links (Main page, etc.; Printable version, etc.;  Other languages, etc.) are all the way at the left margin, with the (new) Wikipedia logo overlaying and mostly obliterating these links. Below the grey horizontal line (about 2 cm from top of window), everything else is normal. This is the only page I have encountered in all of Wikipedia that is messed up (for me at least) when viewed with Opera version 7.23. Any suggestions on how to track down the problem? Harris7 18:53, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Hm, one of the recent formatting changes to Current events fixed this long-standing problem. Thank you, somebody! Harris7 18:55, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

"Grey Tuesday"
Is "Grey Tuesday" really one of the four biggest stories in the world today. Google News on the story. Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 15:00, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

"Same-Sex Marriage appropriate?"
OK - I'm relatively new to this, so bear with me (although I have already made a number of contributions to Current Events, Recent deaths, and even the Main Page - as well as about the history of Scotland, East Anglia, etc... I'm wondering whether the continued inclusion of news (almost daily) about Same-Sex Marriage is justified in a general encyclopedia, even one which has an up-to-the minute news element to it. Is this really one of the main events of the day? I'm not coming with any anti-gay agenda here - just concerned about what is appropriate. I do get the impression that someone is riding their hobby-horse. Agendum 20:37, 24 Feb 2004 (UTC)

I disagree. This is a political football in the United States, and things change almost daily in the situation. It's becoming a major campaing issue.

Having said that, I did delete the following from the discussion of the Federal Marriage Amendment:
 * In addition to defining marriage, the FMA denies states the ability to grant marriage rights to unmarried couples (civil union and domestic partner).

That's not true. Go to the article on the Amendment. All it says is that no state is REQUIRED to recognize same-state marriage, but they are ALLOWED to do so if they want to. RickK 16:44, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * It has to be said that the wording of the FMA is ambiguous. Eugene Volokh has published some interesting things on this subject (see ). It's fair to say that the FMA's critics charge that it has the potential to deny such rights - it hinges on what is covered by the words "the legal incidents thereof". With that in mind, I've re-included the point in a hopefully NPOV way. -- ChrisO 17:19, 25 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Good change, I can live with that. RickK 03:51, 26 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Macedonian President
Do you think this picture from the Macedonian government site is fair use? It needs to be cropped, but other than that, it's a good shot of him. http://www.izbori.gov.mk/pretsedatelski%2099/boris.htm jengod 20:30, Feb 26, 2004 (UTC)

Sidebar link
On Wikipedia talk:Main Page it has been suggested to replace the sidebar link to current events with one to Main Page. You may want to register your opinion in the poll.—Eloquence 01:21, Feb 28, 2004 (UTC)

LOTR ROTK Oscars
According to LOTR ROTK won only 8 oscars (perhaps they're wrong), but shouldn't there be some reference links to go with the story? Dori | Talk 05:14, Mar 1, 2004 (UTC)

I added a link to http://www.imdb.com/. which shows all of the winners on its front page. They have 11. RickK 05:17, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Deletion of palestine-info.co.uk refs
An anonymous Canadian user, 64.110.205.113 is repeatedly deleting all stories that are linked to palestine-info.co.uk website with the comment "this site is not a decent news site". I'm uneasy about the idea of deleting stories because someone doesn't like the source. What do the rest of you think? -- ChrisO 15:29, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I think it's entirely fair. Same goes for israelnn.com . Either site is mainly used as a method of getting POV in by reference to someone else and the content isn't really suitable for this page unless there's a reasonably respectable news feed to link to, preferably more than a single source. - David Gerard 16:00, Mar 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * I should add: while many 'proper' newsfeeds are commonly held to be biased in a given direction (Fox, BBC, Guardian), they are in fact sources of general news, not specialist advocacy Slashcode sites, so are a much better source on what's the actual top news stories of the day. If you see what I mean. - David Gerard 16:06, Mar 1, 2004 (UTC)

I spent 30 minutes trying to find ANY substantiation on-line for the half-dozen palestine-info.co.uk "news stories". No other news source had any mention.

Moreover, the stories are all one-sided, saying only that Israelis did this or that, but not even HINTING that it may have been in response to a provocation. Nor do they report any attempt to question the Israelis about why they did it.

My conclusion is that this is PROBABLY a propaganda site, masquerading as a "news source".

I think each item from this source should start by saying something like:
 * An anti-Israeli website claimed today that...; or,
 * palestine-info.co.uk, a website devoted to accusing Israel of misdeeds, reported today that...'''

Unless and until at least SOME of its "stories" start to be confirmed by other sources, I don't think it should be given the same unquestioned authority as the New York Times, AP, or Washington Times. Just putting a footnote at the end is not enough. In fact, it's misleading. --Uncle Ed 15:52, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Liftarn is blatantly attempting to put in POV by reference. His latest entry included .gov.ps press releases as news! - David Gerard 16:00, Mar 3, 2004 (UTC)

GTA
Someone please explain to me how the top-selling movie of 2003 winning an Academy Award is news but the announcement of the sequel to the two top-selling video games of 2003 isn't?

It's not advertising, by the way. Again, no more than Lord of the Rings is. RadicalBender 20:31, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)
 * The film is mentioned on the front page, albeit not as a headline, on most western internet news sites. The game is nowhere to be seen. Haiti, which David also removed, is the headline on CNN, BBC,... and to my mind is obviously the top world news story. Go figure. Pete/Pcb21 (talk) 20:51, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm not saying it should be on the main page (it shouldn't). But why can't it be listed with everything else on the current events?  Other things show up in the current events list all the time that are far less valuable. RadicalBender 20:54, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree; it is of similar importance to LotR's annoucements, which were carried here, so I've re-added it.
 * James F. (talk) 21:22, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * As I said in the summary, I removed the Haiti story for not having a link - I expected someone to find one and put it back. (I suppose I shall have to go looking myself now ...) I'm still not convinced about GTA. If we have a few links ... I shall go look for more now too. - David Gerard 21:20, Mar 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * Actually, I've just looked again. The biz.yahoo.com link is a press release. Still looking for an actual news story that isn't a reprint. - David Gerard 21:25, Mar 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * There. I've found the one non-press-release link on GTA, and by the way linked the actual story: it swept the BAFTA games awards!

 * I do strongly object to putting press releases on Current events. FWIW. - David Gerard 21:32, Mar 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * And that's fine, but I'd appreciate someone saying that. I would've gone to find something else (or perhaps even linked to the Slashdot posting on this topic).  The first time it was deleted without explanation and then the second time was deleted saying it was "advertising." (Just say don't post PR - that's all I needed to know.) RadicalBender 21:41, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

End-of-month archiving
Gah, finally managed to fix it so that the page is actually moved to the specific month, keeping its page history. Sorry if I've broken anything; nothing significant has been lost, AFAICT, but what has been removed should still be lying around in the page history of February... James F. (talk) 21:22, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * Terribly sorry for my poopooing earlier. -- Kaihsu 21:25, 2004 Mar 1 (UTC)

 * No problem ;-)
 * James F. (talk) 17:55, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Why was this deleted from the hot links?
Why was this page deleted from the hot links on my page? RickK 03:31, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

 * I dont know, but it is quite annoying! I hope it will be restored. Perl 03:32, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Yes please put current events back on the toolbar Mintguy (T) 14:30, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC)

See and vote in the poll.—Eloquence

please

title: Talk:Current events/Archive 3