text:
Talk:Blue law

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—Yamara ✉  19:25, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Discussion
The section on Connecticut blue laws links to an article with no information about current blue laws in Connecticut. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.234.86.254 (talk) 22:11, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

62.90.159.153 (talk) 22:47, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Can someone please do some heavy editing on the Israel section? It is somewhat misleading; many small shops and restaurants stay open on the sabbath both in the cities and rural areas (even jerusalem). While Blue Laws are certainly on the books, I can state that as a one-time resident of Bergen County and a current resident of Israel, it's sometimes easier to find an open store here in Israel than in NJ... 62.90.159.153 (talk) 22:47, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Blue movies doesn't make sense here. Blue movies are dirty movies, not rigidly moral movies, and the term has the opposite connotation of bluenose. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

 * I just clicked on "Blue movies" never having heard the term before, assuming it was some type of (as mentioned above) "rigidly moral" movie. And of course my screen was filled with the entry for Pornographic Movie which obviously contains sexually explicit images and text. This is unacceptable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.43.153.1 (talk) 16:03, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

I've never heard this term used in Canada - if it is, is the usage regional?156.34.39.37 18:28, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm just restoring the text that the previous (anonymous) person deleted completely.... Of course in 2 months someone will ask approval for edits they made to the page I "wrote." ;-) --KQ An aspect of blue laws that deserves some attention here is their constitutionality: whether prohibiting certain businesses from operating on the Christian sabbath violates the first amendment by preferring one religion over another. -- Arteitle 07:13 3 Jun 2003 (UTC)

The only problem with providing such an analysis is that it would probably be original research rather than a recapitulation of ideas expressed elsewhere. See What Wikipedia is not, Item 10. -- NetEsq 14:14 3 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Perhaps some reference to the fact that the issue has been raised in the past, then. If there were some definitive historical legal challenge, for example. I'm not knowledgable enough to fill that in; that's actually what I was curious about when I looked up the article. -- Arteitle 09:33 5 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I am not aware of any definitive historical legal challenge to blue laws based upon First Amendment grounds. In fact, at the time that the First Amendment was passed, it clearly applied only to the federal government and left state governments free to establish their own official state churches, which many states did. To wit, Pennsylvania was originally a theocracy established by Quakers for the express purpose of allowing freedom of religion as opposed to freedom from religion. It wasn't until the Civil War Amendments were passed -- specifically the Fourteenth Amendment -- that conflicts between state and federal law became a real issue. Moreover, the idea of freedom from religion based on constitutional grounds did not surface until the Scopes Trial in 1925; it wasn't until the 1968 case of Epperson v. Arkansas that the United States Supreme Court finally cited the Establishment Clause as being applicable to religious institutions established by the several states. -- NetEsq 12:33 5 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Anyone know what areas still have general blue laws?
 * As far as I can find, only Bergen County, New Jersey in the US. Nova Scotia has weak blue laws, and the EU, if its constitution ever passes, will have weak blue laws as well. Israel and numerous Muslim countries have equivalents of blue laws for Saturday and Friday. - Cuivienen 00:14, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

One-third of US states still have blue laws, although that number has begun dropping rapidly in the last several years.David Justin 16:11, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

 * In Pennsylvania, bars are allowed to be open on Sundays only if they serve food. Also, I believe, not before noon. Some info on several US states here.--BillFlis 18:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Davies comment
Robertson Davies is a great author and I love the quote here; however, doesn't it belong much more in an article on Daylight Savings Time or Puritanism than here? The only link seems to be that he is criticising the Purtians, presumed originators of the blue laws, for something else which is only peripherally related (at best).

 * Agreed. Done - I moved it to Daylight Savings Time. I'll leave it to others to decide if it's worth putting in Puritanism

 * Singkong 6 July 2005 02:36 (UTC)

Relocation
I understand the Wikipedia naming convention. But I have seen many references to "Blue Laws" (and some to "blue laws") and almost almost none, ever, to "Blue laws". Aren't we getting carred away? Rlquall 12:39, 15 Nov 2004

Merge with Sunday shopping?
Isn't this just another term for the same issue, that of which stores (if any) should be permitted to open on Sundays? --Delirium 08:24, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily. In Massachusetts, the blue laws currently prohibit most retail stores from opening on Thanksgiving and Christmas.  --WikkiTikkiTavi 15:21, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

not necessarily, until 2006 it was illegal in Ontario to hunt with a firearm on Sundays, as part of the Lord's Day Act. I have added this information to the page as well.

--Jadger 12:00, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, a great deal of this article is covering Sunday shopping. I think it would be best to move talks about restrictions on Sunday shopping from that article into this one and any mention of restrictions in Sunday shopping should link back here. --Anon 12:35, 22 January 2014 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.106.216.17 (talk)

Texas Blue Laws - Motor Vehicle Dealers
The sentence stating that Texas prohibits the sale of vehicles on Sunday is incorrect. Texas only prohibits motor vehicle dealers from being open for business on both Saturday and Sunday. Dealers must choose between the two days and often switch between the two for different promotions.

Jyroberson 22:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes this current statement above is correct AC Lamers (talk) 22:07, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Possible Contradiction in "Bergen County, New Jersey" section
In the "Bergen County, New Jersey" section it is noted that "The county is not considered a particularly religious area." Then, it it followed with "Bergen County has significant Jewish and Muslim populations." Besides this, the county also has a large number of Christians including Roman Catholics, as well as Christians of other denominations. Before I edit this, I would like some input regarding how best to clarify this and input discussing if clarification is indeed necessary.

Thank you.

That section was changed, but there are no citations given for either the former "not particularly religious" claim nor for the "significant Jewish and Muslim population" claim. Both are somewhat subjective statements. An area that is no more religious than any other is not particularly religious, and Bergen County is far less religious overall than a typical Bible Belt county, which would be considered particularly religious. An area with clusters of Jews or Muslims large enough to be noticed could be said to have significant populations. Hypothetically, an area of the nation where only 25% of the population is religious, but where 6% of the population is Jewish would be an area that is not particularly religious, but with a significant Jewish population, since Jews make up only 1.5% of the nation. Thus the two statements do not contradict each other on face value. What would be relevant is the basis for either claim, and no citations were given. However, the statement that Bergen County is not particularly religious seems reasonable, and should be put back with a citation showing its overall statistics. --Hagrinas 16:47, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

There should be some support for why Bergen County is considered noteworthy. The article states that it is exceptional for banning all types of commerce, but I get the feeling that it isn't that exceptional to deserve such a long section and is only written this way because someone from Bergen County felt like sounding off on the issue. Unless Bergen County's laws are truly unique, I propose cutting this section down or rewriting it to remove a focus on Bergen County. It should simply discuss the existence of more strict blue laws, with Bergen County as an example.

--65.196.116.2 20:02, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Worldwide weekend thanks to Blue laws
Weekend has it starting in Europe due to trade unionists, nothing to do with North American laws at all. I have put "citation needed" on it on it A Geek Tragedy 23:04, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I took it out now. A Geek Tragedy 10:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

SDA's beliefs pertinent information
Links to sources concerning the Adventists' beliefs of the end time significance of blue laws needs to be included in this article.  Panda

Gender "appropriate" attire
There is a lot of information circulating (in LGBT literature) about blue laws in the 1950ies that regulated gender "appropriate" attire. I read that in many states, like New York, people could get arrested if they didn't wear at least 3 items of such clothing. Truth or fiction? --Stilfehler 19:03, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Worldwide perspective
Laws designed to enforce moral standards, particularly the observance of Sunday as a day of worship or rest, are or have been common in many other parts of the world too. The fact that American English has a word for them and other forms of English don't (to my knowledge, as an Australian) doesn't make it a specifically American/North American topic. But, I don't know the details of it outside of the US so I can't help with the fixing. —Felix the Cassowary 10:39, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Of course laws that enforce moral and religious standards are common in other parts of the world, but are they called Blue Laws? I can't help but disagree with the 'Worldwide View' tag being placed on this article.  It's not really supposed to represent a worldwide view.  It's supposed to deal with Blue Laws in the United States and Canada.  The only way to make it represent a worldwide view would be to incorporate it into a longer article dealing with laws which enforce religious customs throughout the world.  I think the article is just fine the way it is. 24.27.110.167 (talk) 20:08, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

All laws enforce moral standard
Since all laws enforce a moral standard, how does one determine a blue law? Are laws against murder blue laws? Rds865 (talk) 06:39, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * some would say yes. In masachusets, employees are guaranteed one day of rest per 7 day week. This is a labor standard that prevents employers from running an employee forever without a day off, but only if the employee WANTS the day off. It's still considered a blue law in this article (although I think we should take it off) SeanBrockest (talk) 20:47, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Laws which prohibit murder are objective, rational, protect human rights, are derived from common sense, and strongly implied by the Constitution (individual rights to life & pursuit of happiness are supreme, so long as they don't prevent anyone else from doing likewise). Blue laws are based on arbitrary religious, moralist, etiquette, ascetic, or other social considerations, often not necessarily the majority of the population, and often not even truly based on religious scripture, but on popular misconceptions, elitist snobbery, politicians' personal pet peeves, etc. Shanoman (talk) 21:09, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Cook Islands
I didn't know that the Cook Islands were part of the US or Canada. This article makes it seem that way. 70.51.8.75 (talk) 05:39, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Election day liquor sales
Are election day liquor sales blue laws? Should prohibitions on election day liquor sales be in this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.162.99.237 (talk) 00:03, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Ohio blue laws
There are sections regarding the blue laws in a huge number of states, but nothing about Ohio. As far as I know, sale of alcohol on Sundays is prohibited in Ohio except alcohol sold after 11:00 AM in sports arenas (from a recently passed bill). I think this should be added to the page, although I have little experience with such laws. Eebster the Great (talk) 22:03, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Annoyingly pointless redirect
I was reading this article and saw the section about the [Lord's Day Act]. Did you click the link? Because it just put me back up to the top of this very article. Why on Earth is there a link to the Blue Law article actually INSIDE the Blue Law article?--Dark Green (talk) 16:58, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Is it entirely religious?
I think it might be misleading to state that Blue laws were there to enforce "religious" standards. Its true that a lot of it has to do with Sunday, however I think the alcohol laws are not religiously motivated but rather come out of the temperance/prohibition movement. Am I wrong? -- Kraftlos  (Talk | Contrib) 11:36, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * From simply looking in a few dictionaries, it appears "blue laws" are actually just laws regulating work or moral conduct on Sundays. While those might in principle not be entirely religiously motivated, they derive from the New England colonial blue laws in the eighteenth century which were CERTAINLY religious. Eebster the Great (talk) 00:25, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

What about laws that prohibit alcohol sales but are not religious in motivation? The section on California, for example, explains laws that prohibit alcohol sales between certain hours all week. Without knowing the history of these laws, it seems like the motivation here is secular (i.e. keeping people from making drunken beer runs after 2:00 am).70.171.204.39 (talk) 03:59, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Blue laws
The color blue is the symbolic color in the Bible depicting the Law of God or the Ten Commandments. Israelites wove a blue thread through the sleeves of their garment as well as the neck and hem at the bottom to signify that what they did with their hands, where they went and what they said and thought were all within the law being within the blue thread.

This is where the blue in Blue Laws comes from as they were enacted in relationship to Sunday sacredness mistakenly taking Sunday as the Sabbath in conflict with God's written word that Sabbath is the seventh day or Saturday. The laws enacted limited sale and work on Sunday much like the limitations on work are depicted in the Bible on Sabbath. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doug Munson (talk • contribs) 04:08, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Massachusetts
It is an understatement to say that alcohol is banned from sale on various holidays; fact is, pretty much everything is.

Attempts by Sears, Kohls, Best Buy etc to open on Thanksgiving here have been quashed by the state. Big Lots did open briefly a few years back, but the Atty General got them shut down some time mid-afternoon.

I thought grocery stores were exempt, but fact is, one small chain (Super 99) was also cited for having "illegally opened" that same year.

Since then, no one has attempted opening on Thanksgiving.

Black Friday begins at midnite here. No earlier.

66.3.106.3 (talk) 06:44, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

New York section
New York should not be listed under this article, as the prohibition of sales from 4 AM to 8 AM is not a Sunday-only restriction, but the daily "last call" time. Alternately, it should be noted as such. -Darryl Hamlin 01:37, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Labor Involvement
In Barbara Tuchman's excellent book, The Proud Tower, she makes it clear that Blue Laws were a major platform issue of the left and labor movements prior to WWI for the purpose of outlawing a seven-day work week. For them at least, the religous aspect was merely pretext to accomplish this goal. I believe it should be mentioned in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.114.77.6 (talk) 14:28, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

South Carolina: Myrtle Beach churches
Why is there a listing of churches mile-by-mile? Its significance is not explained in the article. Acsenray (talk) 18:34, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. It seems to be saying something about the marathons not able to take place on Sundays because of those churches? Strange. Also seems strange that Myrtle Beach would have any blue laws, considering they have a bar called, "Suck, Bang, Blow" and many other comparably classy establishments. 98.202.125.252 (talk) 00:50, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Utah Dealerships
As a Utah resident I might be overly sensitive, but the current statement that car dealerships have to be closed on "Saturday or Sunday, depending on the dealership" is not only completely false, but if it's up to the dealership then it isn't an example of a blue law! I'd estimate that 2 out of every 3 car dealerships here are open 7 days a week. 98.202.125.252 (talk) 00:53, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Then make the edit. If you're wrong, and someone can find evidence to prove you are wrong, they will document it better when they put it it back in. SeanBrockest (talk) 20:49, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

New Jersey Dealerships
I believe New Jersey bans car sales statewide. The rest of the blue laws are by county option and, as pointed out in the article, are in effect in only Bergen County. The 1960 (I think) blue law was initially approved by referendum in only 11 of the 21 counties, and by the 1980's repealed, again by referendum, in 10 of them. The reason they were probably upheld in the last Bergen County referendum is to keep the intersection of NJ routes 4 and 17, by two shopping malls, free of traffic jams at least one day a week. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.255.80.43 (talk) 21:51, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Manitoba Laws on retailers
I removed the manitoba section from this article. I've searched our provincial website and can find no evidence of this law on either of the two main lists of laws, regulations, or any list for that matter. Since the "law" was unsourced anyway, i've removed it from the list. SeanBrockest (talk) 20:49, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Delaware section needs to be added
The state of Delaware Still has some Liquor related Blue laws. Someone who knows how need to add a section about them. Sunday Alcohol sales only be came allowed in 2005(?), & it's only between 12:00pm (noon) & 8:0pm, there is no off-premises alcohol sales permitted on Election days until the polls close, & Liquor stores must be closed on Thanksgiving & Christmas. All off-premises Alcohol sales take place in licensed private liquor store (also formally know as package-stores) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.211.71.137 (talk) 15:44, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Maryland Should be on List of Purported Blue Laws
According to this sentence in the article, Maryland should have be listed among the states with at least one purported Blue Law, in this case, car vehicle sales:

 * Maryland permits Sunday automobile sales only in the counties of Prince George's, Montgomery, and Howard.Maryland permits Sunday automobile sales only in the counties of Prince George's, Montgomery, and Howard.

The sentence following this one involves a similar Texas restriction, which is also included in the list of states. Ileanadu (talk) 05:15, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Costa Rica is now on the list
Alcohol sales are prohibited during Thursday and Friday of Holy Week. Daniel32708 (talk) 00:18, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

North Dakota
North Dakota still strictly enforces blue law. No retail shops are open on Sunday until 12pm, including large retail chains such as Walmart. Can any experienced editors on this page edit this in, because I don't feel the page gives the proper assessment of how serious some states still take these laws. Dancindazed (talk) 15:22, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually I'm going to add it in the listed states, if someone feels to rewrite go ahead, but I feel like ND has the strictest of the states and needs to be on the page with specific mention. Dancindazed (talk) 15:25, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

Merge from Bert Bell
This does not really affect this article except it adds history with citations. If history of how and when the blue laws were deprecated are not desired, then please say so. 66.234.33.8 (talk) 22:18, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Connecticut Link not working (redirects)
The Connecticut link links to Blue Laws - Connecticut, but the one meaning 'laws of Colonial Connecticut'. It even has a disambiguation tag for Blue Laws like the ones here (moral laws), but all THAT link does is link back to the Connecticut section of this page...which has nothing but a link to the 'main article', which is the wrong article. It's a vicious circle of wrong information. By the way, Connecticut became the 49th state to allow liquor sales on Sunday today. 99.98.221.223 (talk) 01:36, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Israel
I am deleting the sections regarding Israel. Re transportation, the source regarding Israel doesn't say there's a law that prohibits public transportation. It says the Knesset will enact a law to allow this. The Hebrew wiki on the subject clearly states that the status quo is based on political agreements and unwritten understandings. It's also sourced to a book on the subject. הסטטוס_קוו_בישראל_בנושא_השבת There are laws regarding the employment of Jews on the Sabbath, Christians on Sunday and Muslims on Friday, there are many exceptions and in any case this isn't written in the article. If someone could spend the time on this, it would be a worthy addition. 93.173.7.192 (talk) 13:59, 1 August 2012 (UTC)Roy

Serious Problem With This Article
Many of the sections on specific laws here include a description of laws that prohibit alcohol sales all week long, from 2:00am to 7:00am, for example. These are not "Blue Laws" based on the article's description. Either the description needs to be altered to reflect a wider application of the term or the references to laws which prevent late night liquor sales need to be removed. If the motivation for these laws is moral or religious (I assume they are meant to prevent late night drunken liquor runs) then we should have some sources.70.171.204.39 (talk) 04:08, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Earlier use of the term ' blue law '
I have just been googling after Oliver Cromwell's wearing of a blue sash and noted this wikipedia page as I did so and return to drop in a quote from - http://www.history.com/topics/oliver-cromwell - " Cromwell, a committed Puritan, and his godly "Ironsides" attributed their successes on the battlefield to divine intervention and now set out to create a godly society by establishing a body of evangelical preachers, by reforming the legal system, and by introducing legislation such as the Blue Laws (1650) against blasphemy, cursing, drunkenness, and adultery. Cromwell believed in liberty of conscience for his fellow Christians-"I meddle not with any man's conscience"; a truly revolutionary concept for the day-but in every other respect he remained a social conservative. " Here is a picture of Cromwell wearing one - http://www.historicalportraits.com/Gallery.asp?Page=Item&ItemID=353&Desc=Oliver-Cromwell-%7C-Thomas-Wyck - and I would like to comment that " a bluestocking " is generally taken to be a reference to an intellectual woman considered to be over-educated and opinionated in late 18c England not mid 17c Cromwellians. However the following account of Cromwell banning mince pies contains a comment upon this Connecticut law, not exactly authoratative but interesting perhaps - http://mercuriuspoliticus.wordpress.com/2011/01/27/cromwellballs/ -  ' What first seems to have set the ball rolling is a 1782 History of Connecticut by Samuel Peters. This sets out a colourful, and probably completely apocryphal, account of ‘blue laws’ regulating behaviour in the colony. It includes this paragraph: " No one shall read Common Prayer, keep Christmas or Saint days, make minced pies, dance, play cards, or play on any instrument of music except the drum trumpet and jewsharp." ' DaiSaw (talk) 23:59, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Page Title
I'm not seeing references to "blue law" in the singular. They're always talked about as "blue laws" in the plural. Even examples in the text (I didn't check all) refer to "blue laws." I recommend changing the title to "Blue Laws." I don't know how to change a page name, but also, would need others to agree on the change. NorieNC (talk) 17:29, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

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History Section
In the History Section, the text reads: "Numerous Americans were arrested for working, keeping an open shop, drinking alcohol, traveling, and recreating on Sundays." "Recreating" what? What were they arrested for creating again? If the word is meant to indicate spending time for leisure activities as in "recreation," then it should use the use the word "recreation" instead. "Recreating" as a verb is not normally used in the sense "engaging in recreational activity." I've never heard it used this way, and, at least in the dictionary I consulted, such use does not comport with listed definitions for the word "recreate." I suggest revision or clarification. Replacing "recreating" with "engaging in recreational activities" would make the meaning clearer and keep the parallelism of the sentence intact.

It also would help if another sentence or two were added to explain why recreational activities would be banned on Sunday if that day was designated as a day of rest. One would assume that Sunday would be the very day in which recreational activities would most likely be engaged if all other days of the week were devoted to work. 66.91.36.8 (talk) 05:16, 7 December 2021 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose to merge Sunday shopping into this article, as the topic appears to be the same. Needforspeed888 (talk) 17:58, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Seconded. Glide08 (talk) 19:34, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Considering the size of the articles, put together there's justification for a split. Roughly 100kb put together generically without any of the obvious reduction in content thru copy editing. -Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 14:29, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I think that the two articles are related, but not the same concept. Blue laws may forbid other things besides only shopping on Sundays. I hope this helps. Kind regards, AnupamTalk 16:29, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

 * Note that I've also added links or hatnotes between them. Klbrain (talk) 10:37, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Israel
Why is Israel not mentioned in this article? Arguably, it is the country in the world with the most stringent 'blue laws' that forbid all commerce, public transportation, and employment on the Sabbath (Saturday). 109.186.217.17 (talk) 16:12, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

Name
Why are they called blue laws? They are not in the UK afaik. 84.71.108.201 (talk) 00:22, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Article title
This article seems to be about Sunday Trading Laws. Why can’t it have that as a title? As a PhD-educated native English speaker from England, I have never heard of the term “Blue law”, so the current title is meaningless. JeremyYorkshire (talk) 13:44, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Blue law


text:
Bruce Perens

Bruce Perens (born around 1958 ) is an American computer programmer and advocate in the free software movement. He created The Open Source Definition and published the first formal announcement and manifesto of open source. He co-founded the Open Source Initiative (OSI) with Eric S. Raymond.

In 2005, Perens represented Open Source at the United Nations World Summit on the Information Society, at the invitation of the United Nations Development Programme. He has appeared before national legislatures and is often quoted in the press, advocating for open source and the reform of national and international technology policy.

Perens is also an amateur radio operator, with call sign K6BP. He promotes open radio communications standards and open-source hardware.

In 2016 Perens, along with Boalt Hall (Berkeley Law) professor Lothar Determann, co-authored "Open Cars" which appeared in the Berkeley Technology Law Journal.

In 2018 Perens founded the Open Research Institute (ORI), a non-profit research and development organization to address technologies involving Open Source, Open Hardware, Open Standards, Open Content, and Open Access to Research. In April 2022 he divorced himself from the organization and reported he was starting a new charity, HamOpen.org, to redirect his focus, and align with the ARRL organization for their liability insurance benefit. HamOpen has been most visible supporting the convention exhibitions of projects Perens supports, including M17 and FreeDV.

Companies
Perens operates two companies: Algoram is a start-up which is creating a web-based control system for radio transmitters and other devices. Legal Engineering is a legal-technical consultancy which specializes in resolving copyright infringement in relation to open source software.

Early life
Perens grew up in Long Island, New York. He was born with cerebral palsy, which caused him to have slurred speech as a child, a condition that led to a misdiagnosis of him as developmentally disabled in school and led the school to fail to teach him to read. He developed an interest in technology at an early age: besides his interest in amateur radio, he ran a pirate radio station in the town of Lido Beach and briefly engaged in phone phreaking.

Computer graphics
Perens worked for seven years at the New York Institute of Technology Computer Graphics Lab. After that, he worked at Pixar for 12 years, from 1987 to 1999. He is credited as a studio tools engineer on the Pixar films A Bug's Life (1998) and Toy Story 2 (1999).

No-Code International
Perens founded No-Code International in 1998 with the goal of ending the Morse Code test then required for an amateur radio license. His rationale was that amateur radio should be a tool for young people to learn advanced technology and networking, rather than something that preserved antiquity and required new hams to master outmoded technology before they were allowed on the air.

Perens lobbied intensively on the Internet, at amateur radio events in the United States, and during visits to other nations. One of his visits was to Iceland, where he had half of that nation's radio amateurs in the room, and their vote in the International Amateur Radio Union was equivalent to that of the entire United States.

Debian Social Contract
In 1997, Perens was carbon-copied on an email conversation between Donnie Barnes of Red Hat and Ean Schuessler, who was then working on Debian. Schuessler bemoaned that Red Hat had never stated its social contract with the developer community. Perens took this as inspiration to create a formal social contract for Debian. In a blog posting, Perens claims not to have made use of the Three Freedoms (later the Four Freedoms) published by the Free Software Foundation in composing his document. Perens proposed a draft of the Debian Social Contract to the Debian developers on the debian-private mailing list early in June 1997. Debian developers contributed discussion and changes for the rest of the month while Perens edited, and the completed document was then announced as Debian project policy. Part of the Debian Social Contract was the Debian Free Software Guidelines, a set of 10 guidelines for determining whether a set of software can be described as "free software", and thus whether it could be included in Debian.

Open Source Definition and The Open Source Initiative
On February 3, 1998, a group of people (not including Perens) met at VA Linux Systems to discuss the promotion of Free Software to business in pragmatic terms, rather than the moral terms preferred by Richard Stallman. Christine Petersen of the nanotechnology organization Foresight Institute, who was present because Foresight took an early interest in Free Software, suggested the term "Open Source". The next day, Eric S. Raymond recruited Perens to work with him on the formation of Open Source. Perens modified the Debian Free Software Guidelines into the Open Source Definition by removing Debian references and replacing them with "Open Source".

The original announcement of The Open Source Definition was made on February 9, 1998, on Slashdot and elsewhere; the definition was given in Linux Gazette on February 10, 1998.

Concurrently, Perens and Raymond established the Open Source Initiative, an organization intended to promote open source software.

Perens left OSI in 1999, a year after co-founding it. In February 1999 in an email to the Debian developers mailing list he explained his decision and stated that, though "most hackers know that Free Software and Open Source are just two words for the same thing", the success of "open source" as a marketing term had "de-emphasized the importance of the freedoms involved in Free Software"; he added, "It's time for us to fix that." He stated his regret that OSI co-founder Eric Raymond "seems to be losing his free software focus." But in the following 2000s he spoke about Open source again. Perens presently volunteers as the Open Source Initiative's representative to the European Technical Standards Institute ("ETSI"), and is a frequent participant in review of license texts submitted to OSI for certification as Open Source licenses.

Linux Capital Group
In 1999, Perens left Pixar and became the president of Linux Capital Group, a business incubator and venture capital firm focusing on Linux-based businesses. Their major investment was in Progeny Linux Systems, a company headed by Debian founder Ian Murdock. In 2000, as a result of the economic downturn, Perens shut down Linux Capital Group. (Progeny Linux Systems would end operations in 2007.)

Hewlett-Packard
From December 2000 to September 2002, Perens served as "Senior Global Strategist for Linux and Open Source" at Hewlett-Packard, internally evangelizing for the use of Linux and other open-source software. He was fired as a result of his anti-Microsoft statements, which especially became an issue after HP acquired Compaq, a major manufacturer of Microsoft Windows-based PCs, in 2002.

UserLinux
In 2003 Perens created UserLinux, a Debian-based distribution whose stated goal was, "Provide businesses with freely available, high quality Linux operating systems accompanied by certifications, service, and support options designed to encourage productivity and security while reducing overall costs." UserLinux was eventually overtaken in popularity by Ubuntu, another Debian-based distribution, which was started in 2004, and UserLinux became unmaintained in 2006.

SourceLabs
Perens was an employee of SourceLabs, a Seattle-based open source software and services company, from June 2005 until December 2007. He produced a video commercial, Impending Security Breach, for SourceLabs in 2007. (SourceLabs was acquired by EMC in 2009.)

University faculty
Between 1981 and 1986, Perens was on the staff of the New York Institute of Technology Computer Graphics Lab as a Unix kernel programmer.

In 2002, Perens was a remote Senior Scientist for Open Source with the Cyber Security Policy Laboratory of George Washington University under the direction of Tony Stanco. Stanco was director of the laboratory for a year, while its regular director was on sabbatical.

Between 2006 and 2007, Perens was a visiting lecturer and researcher for the University of Agder under a three-year grant from the Competence Fund of Southern Norway. During this time he consulted the Norwegian Government and other entities on government policy issues related to computers and software. After this time Perens worked remotely on Agder programs, mainly concerning the European Internet Accessibility Observatory.

Other activities
In 2007, some of Perens's government advisory roles included a meeting with the President of the Chamber of Deputies (the lower house of parliament) in Italy and testimony to the Culture Committee of the Chamber of Deputies; a keynote speech at the foundation of Norway's Open Source Center, following Norway's Minister of Governmental Reform (Perens is on the advisory board of the center); he provided input on the revision of the European Interoperability Framework; and he was keynote speaker at a European Commission conference on Digital Business Ecosystems at the Centre Borschette, Brussels, on November 7.

In 2009, Perens acted as an expert witness on open source in the Jacobsen v. Katzer U.S. Federal lawsuit. His report, which was made publicly available by Jacobsen, presented the culture and impact of open-source software development to the federal courts.

Perens delivered one of the keynote addresses at the 2012 linux.conf.au conference in Ballarat, Australia. He discussed the need for open source software to market itself better to non-technical users. He also discussed some of the latest developments in open-source hardware, such as Papilio and Bus Pirate.

In 2013, Perens spoke in South America, as the closing keynote at Latinoware 2013. He was the keynote of CISL – Conferencia Internacional de Software Libre, in Buenos Aires, Argentina, and keynoted a special event along with the Minister of software and innovation of Chubut Province, in Puerto Madrin, Patagonia, Argentina. He keynoted the Festival de Software Libre 2013, in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.

In 2014–2015, Perens took a break from Open Source conferences, having spoken at them often since 1996. In 2016, he returned to the conference circuit, keynoting the Open Source Insight conference in Seoul, sponsored by the Copyright Commission of South Korea. Perens web site presently advertises his availability to keynote conferences as long as travel and lodging expenses are compensated.

In 2020, Perens delivered the talk, "What Comes After Open Source?" for DebConf 2020. He discussed the future of open source licensing and the need to develop alternative licensing structures so that open source developers could get paid for their work.

Views
Perens poses "Open Source" as a means of marketing the free and open-source software idea to business people and mainstream who might be more interested in the practical benefits of an open source development model and ecosystem than abstract ethics. He states that open source and free software are only two ways of talking about the same phenomenon, a point of view not shared by Stallman and his free software movement. Perens postulated in 2004 an economic theory for business use of Open Source in his paper The Emerging Economic Paradigm of Open Source and his speech Innovation Goes Public. This differs from Raymond's theory in The Cathedral and the Bazaar, which having been written before there was much business involvement in open source, explains open source as a consequence of programmer motivation and leisure.

In February 2008, for the 10th anniversary of the phrase "open source", Perens published a message to the community called "State of Open Source Message: A New Decade For Open Source". Around the same time the ezine RegDeveloper published an interview with Perens where he spoke of the successes of open source, but also warned of dangers, including a proliferation of OSI-approved licenses which had not undergone legal scrutiny. He advocated the use of the GPLv3 license, especially noting Linus Torvalds' refusal to switch away from GPLv2 for the Linux kernel.

Bruce Perens supported Bernie Sanders for President and he claims that his experience with the open source movement influenced that decision. On July 13, 2016, following Sanders's endorsement of Hillary Clinton for president, Perens endorsed Clinton.

In January 2013, Perens advocated for abolishment of the Second Amendment to the U.S. constitution, stating that he does "not believe in private ownership of firearms" and that he would "take away guns currently held by individuals, without compensation for their value." He reiterated this view in a June 2014 interview in Slashdot, and in November 2017 on his Twitter account.

Amateur radio and other activities
Perens is an avid amateur radio enthusiast (call sign K6BP ) and maintained technocrat.net, which he closed in late 2008, because its revenues did not cover its costs.

Media appearances
Perens is featured in the 2001 documentary film Revolution OS and the 2006 BBC television documentary The Code-Breakers.

From 2002 to 2006, Prentice Hall PTR published the Bruce Perens' Open Source Series, a set of 24 books covering various open source software tools, for which Perens served as the series editor. It was the first book series to be published under an open license.

Personal life
Perens lives in Berkeley, California with his wife, Valerie, and son, Stanley, born in 2000.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Bruce Perens


text:
Bundle theory

Bundle theory, originated by the 18th century Scottish philosopher David Hume, is the ontological theory about objecthood in which an object consists only of a collection (bundle) of properties, relations or tropes.

According to bundle theory, an object consists of its properties and nothing more; thus, there cannot be an object without properties and one cannot conceive of such an object. For example, when we think of an apple, we think of its properties: redness, roundness, being a type of fruit, etc. There is nothing above and beyond these properties; the apple is nothing more than the collection of its properties. In particular, there is no substance in which the properties are inherent.

Bundle theory has been contrasted with the ego theory of the self, which views the egoic self as a soul-like substance existing in the same manner as the corporeal self.

Arguments in favor
The difficulty in conceiving and or describing an object without also conceiving and or describing its properties is a common justification for bundle theory, especially among current philosophers in the Anglo-American tradition.

The inability to comprehend any aspect of the thing other than its properties implies, this argument maintains, that one cannot conceive of a bare particular (a substance without properties), an implication that directly opposes substance theory. The conceptual difficulty of bare particulars was illustrated by John Locke when he described a substance by itself, apart from its properties as "something, I know not what. [...] The idea then we have, to which we give the general name substance, being nothing but the supposed, but unknown, support of those qualities we find existing, which we imagine cannot subsist sine re substante, without something to support them, we call that support substantia; which, according to the true import of the word, is, in plain English, standing under or upholding."

Whether a relation of an object is one of its properties may complicate such an argument. However, the argument concludes that the conceptual challenge of bare particulars leaves a bundle of properties and nothing more as the only possible conception of an object, thus justifying bundle theory.

Objections
Bundle theory maintains that properties are bundled together in a collection without describing how they are tied together. For example, bundle theory regards an apple as red, four inches (100 mm) wide, and juicy but lacking an underlying substance. The apple is said to be a bundle of properties including redness, being four inches (100 mm) wide, and juiciness. Hume used the term "bundle" in this sense, also referring to the personal identity, in his main work: "I may venture to affirm of the rest of mankind, that they are nothing but a bundle or collection of different perceptions, which succeed each other with inconceivable rapidity, and are in a perpetual flux and movement".

Critics question how bundle theory accounts for the properties' compresence (the togetherness relation between those properties) without an underlying substance. Critics also question how any two given properties are determined to be properties of the same object if there is no substance in which they both inhere. This argument is done away with if one considers spatio-temporal location to be a property as well.

Traditional bundle theory explains the compresence of properties by defining an object as a collection of properties bound together. Thus, different combinations of properties and relations produce different objects. Redness and juiciness, for example, may be found together on top of the table because they are part of a bundle of properties located on the table, one of which is the "looks like an apple" property.

By contrast, substance theory explains the compresence of properties by asserting that the properties are found together because it is the substance that has those properties. In substance theory, a substance is the thing in which properties inhere. For example, redness and juiciness are found on top of the table because redness and juiciness inhere in an apple, making the apple red and juicy.

The bundle theory of substance explains compresence. Specifically, it maintains that properties' compresence itself engenders a substance. Thus, it determines substancehood empirically by the togetherness of properties rather than by a bare particular or by any other non-empirical underlying strata. The bundle theory of substance thus rejects the substance theories of Aristotle, Descartes, Leibniz, and more recently, J. P. Moreland, Jia Hou, Joseph Bridgman, Quentin Smith, and others.

Buddhism
The Indian Madhyamaka philosopher, Chandrakirti, used the aggregate nature of objects to demonstrate the lack of essence in what is known as the sevenfold reasoning. In his work, Guide to the Middle Way (Sanskrit: Madhyamakāvatāra), he says:

"[The self] is like a cart, which is not other than its parts, not non-other, and does not possess them. It is not within its parts, and its parts are not within it. It is not the mere collection, and it is not the shape."

He goes on to explain what is meant by each of these seven assertions, but briefly in a subsequent commentary he explains that the conventions of the world do not exist essentially when closely analyzed, but exist only through being taken for granted, without being subject to scrutiny that searches for an essence within them.

Another view of the Buddhist theory of the self, especially in early Buddhism, is that the Buddhist theory is essentially an eliminativist theory. According to this understanding, the self can not be reduced to a bundle because there is nothing that answers to the concept of a self. Consequently, the idea of a self must be eliminated.

title: Bundle theory


text:
Talk:Bacteria

Time to remove protection?
The article has been protected (autoconfirmed) for a little over ten years. Is it time to try un-protecting it? - Donald Albury 14:11, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Given the comment above, probably not. Graham Beards (talk) 15:41, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
 * An IP whose first edit is to complain about the cabal gave me pause, but ten years is a long time to keep an article locked. - Donald Albury 18:59, 15 May 2021 (UTC)

Nomenclature
The nomenclature usage in the article seems confused. This CDC source says:
 * "Italicize family, genus, species, and variety or subspecies. Begin family and genus with a capital letter. Kingdom, phylum, class, order, and suborder begin with a capital letter but are not italicized. If a generic plural for an organism exists (see Dorland’s), it is neither capitalized nor italicized.

Mycobacterium tuberculosis

family Mycobacteriaceae, order Actinomycetales

mycobacteria

Binary genus-species combinations are always used in the singular. Genus used alone (capitalized and italicized) is usually used in the singular, but it may be used in the plural (not italicized) if it refers to all species within that genus.

Salmonella enterica is…

Salmonellae are ubiquitous…"

I think we should only be using upper case initial letters when we are talking specifically about the family or genus. For example, when referring to Mycobacteria in general we should write mycobacteria. -Graham Beards (talk) 11:31, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

 * Italicize Family? That does not accord with Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting. - Donald Albury 18:02, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Fortunately not many families are mentioned. We only have (not including the citations) Enterobacteriaceae and Hydrogenophilaceae, which are (and have been for a very long time) in italics to worry about. It seems odd that Wikipedia and CDC differ on this. Graham Beards (talk) 18:55, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I got curious about why we do not italicize family names. Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Organisms also explicitly says to italicize at the genus level and below. I don't see any obvious discussion of whether families should be italicized in Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Text formatting. The only discussion of italicizing family names that I found in Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Organisms is in the section Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Organisms, which was a discussion of when to italicize family and genus names in articles about viruses. A quick Google search for "italicize family names" finds several sites saying to limit italics to genus and below, while some sites say to use italics for families, and, in at least one case, even for higher levels. - Donald Albury 21:30, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 August 2021
Simplify, concise.

Change:

Most bacteria have not been characterised, and only about 27 percent of the bacterial phyla have species that can be grown in the laboratory.

To:

Most bacteria have not been characterised, and only about 27 percent of the bacterial phyla species can be grown in the laboratory. UniversalHumanTransendence (talk) 20:45, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

 * No, the meanings are different; the suggestion is not accurate. Graham Beards (talk) 21:07, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

 * On second thoughts, the whole sentence is dated and unhelpful.Graham Beards (talk) 09:50, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

WP:URFA/2020
Some concerns - "and only about 27 percent of the bacterial phyla have species that can be grown in the laboratory" in the lead, and doesn't seem to be in the body
 * The name "Schizomycetes" only seems to appear in the lead
 * "Tuberculosis alone kills about 2 million people per year, mostly in sub-Saharan Africa" - also only in lead
 * "S-layers have diverse but mostly poorly understood function" - source is from 1997, is this still poorly understood?

There's some more stuff like that, but I'm not seeing any major issues and this does not required FAR, so marking as satisfactory at URFA/2020. Hog Farm Talk 02:28, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

 * Thanks. I have added a sentence or two on Schizomycytes to the Classification section. I have deleted the dated sentence about TB in the Lead and I have updated the section on S-layers.

 * There's still a little more work I want to do on the article, but I think the FA standard is safe.Graham Beards (talk) 09:08, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Disputed
Whether or not Eubacteria is a sister to Archaebacteria is litigious and thus not to be stated as a fact.

 * Sorry, you can't use a recent primary study to contest "archaea have a separate line of evolutionary descent from bacteria". I have deleted your addition. Please provide a fuller argument here. Graham Beards (talk) 19:58, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

"They constitute a large domain of prokaryotic microorganisms."
First line, - They constitute a large domain of prokaryotic microorganisms.

The word "domain" is used in a confusing manner regarding the context of the article. Further confusion arises where it links to the page on biological tree of life level "domain"

Bacteria, is already, the domain.

The word "domain" in this sentence needs to be changed as it confuses whether "bacteria" is in fact, a "domain", or if prokaryotes are the "domain"...

In otherwords, this sentence is currently saying - They (the domain that is bacteria) constitute a large domain of the domain. We are saying that bacteria domain, make up a large portion of the bacteria domain. UNLESS we remove the contextualisation of the biological connotations of the word "domain". But surely, within an article of this nature that is biology, we should hold contextualisation within a biological nature. The word domain, already has a definition in biology, and we shouldn't use it in place of other words, in a sort of pseudo-idiom style... To put simply, in the context of the sentence, and it's true intention, the word 'domain' is near synonymous with the word 'proportion' YET it links to the definition of "domain" in the domain system of taxonomy.

We cannot use the word "domain" uncontextualised within this nature of article, that is, we cannot use the word domain, as a synonym for "proportion". Within this article, domain should always, and only be used, with reference to the tree of life/three-domain system of taxonomy definition.

Thus I suggest the re-wording, domain should be changed to a more suitable word such as proportion in this particular sentence. 2407:7000:986C:1300:A082:FCA4:A46:E866 (talk) 18:15, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

 * There are prokaryotes other than bacteria. The terms are not synonyms. Graham Beards (talk) 18:45, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

GEEK TALK
Why "a thousand million"? Why don't we use regular language like a billion in regular articles? Do we say 188 one-eighth inches rather than a yard? This is wikipedia, not a sscientific journal. Common plain language is preferred. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.210.241.34 (talk) 20:49, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

 * Yes, you have a point but for many years, and certainly during my lifetime, "billion" had two definitions: originally it meant a million million, but now it pretty much universally means a thousand million in most English-speaking communities. So, "a thousand million" is probably better here in my view. Graham Beards (talk) 17:17, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Humans and most other animals carry millions of bacteria.
"Humans and most other animals carry millions of bacteria" is such a profound understatement that it's shocking and mildly horrifying that this statement is okay for a Wikipedia article that may be a source of learning about bacteria and their ubiquitous presence for hundreds(?) of people. This absolutely should be rephrased as "Humans and most other animals carry trillions of bacteria." There is no scientific or reason-based argument against making this update. Disfucwhcrfgs (talk) 08:56, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
 * "Carry millions" is an English-language idiom in this context and it is not a mathematical statement.Graham Beards (talk) 09:34, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Actually "carry millions" is not an idiom and the statement is meant as one of fact, not one of an idiomatic or conversational nature. And why is this the answer instead of updating the article to more accurately reflect that actual statement of fact the sentence is attempting? Does changing the word to "trillions" detract from the accuracy of the article or make it more difficult to read? Is there a concern that using the word "trillions" (a scientifically verifiable fact when stating the general range of bacteria in humans and animals) is too "mathematical" compared to the less accurate (and merely idiomatic) "millions"? Surely we recognize the vast difference between "millions" and "trillions", even in an idiomatic sense? I thought the objective of Wikipedia is verifiable statements of fact that make people more knowledgeable and informed, not oversimplified, slightly misleading, and technically inaccurate idiomatic conversations. Is editing that word too difficult or not possible? This is kind of jarring. Disfucwhcrfgs (talk) 08:46, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It's an idiom that means way too many to count and most readers will understand this. As you like to be pedantic, humans carry hundreds of species of bacteria and 10 to 100 trillion bacterial cells, but the sentence in question says "and most other animals". Given that protozoa are animals, saying they carry trillions of bacteria is wrong: millions is a meaningful approximation of the bacterial flora of the animal kingdom. You will find most editors do not respond well to rants, so can you briefly say what changes you would like to see bearing in mind  "most other animals" and that the sentence is in the Lead, which is a lay summary of the article. Graham Beards (talk) 09:28, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I think being pedantic is a positive in this case. How about rewriting the sentence so it's A) more accurate, B) more informative, and C) providing the general public more nuanced and meaningful content while also being more technically accurate? Something like:
 * "Humans and most animals carry billions and even trillions of bacteria."
 * To your point about protozoa, I think it's safe to say the intended meaning of the word "animals" in this specific sentence and paragraph isn't concerned with single-celled organisms, since the very next sentence points out that in humans and most animals, " millions billions and even trillions" of bacteria are present "in the gut" and "on the skin". Focusing on the potential range of organisms potentially classified as "animals" misses the point the sentence is making and the concept hopefully imparted to most people, which is the not just "big", but mind-numbingly vast amount of bacteria present in our bodies and those of organisms most people think of when they hear the word "animals."
 * "Humans and most other animals carry billions and even trillions of bacteria. Most are in the gut, and there are many on the skin."
 * To me, this seems like a simple, sensible, beneficial edit providing a small but net positive gain to the general knowledge shared by the article. Disfucwhcrfgs (talk) 11:04, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * You are forgetting mice and other small mammals and birds. You started off by saying "it's shocking and mildly horrifying that this statement is okay for a Wikipedia article that may be a source of learning about bacteria". I still can't see how it is at all shocking or horrifying, but it is reasonably accurate. I don't think your suggestion is an improvement.Graham Beards (talk) 11:33, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with Graham Beards. "Millions" should be taken figuratively. I do not think any reader will be misled about the size of the population of bacteria on animals by using "millions". Donald Albury 18:06, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I can see why 90% of humanity hates you cretins once they know what you and this little backend operation at wikipedia are really like. You are completely and verifiably wrong, but determined to carve out a personal delusion of "authority" in your very tiny, very fleeting, very destructive little domain here. Moving on. Disfucwhcrfgs (talk) 05:16, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your interest in the article. Graham Beards (talk) 07:49, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
 * First, I would like to point out that animals means Metazoa to a modern scientist, so it most definitely excludes any single cell organism. If it included protozoa it would be highly polyphyletic and modern scientist try to avoid polyphyletic taxon. Second, on the point at had, that of whether the use of number words in an encyclopedia should try to be accurate or not I would vote for replacing millions with trillions. It is not at all apparent to the casual reader what the actual number of bacteria in and on the human body should be, and by using a scientifically established number the reader gets a sense for the scale of the human micro-biome. Just my opinion, please play nice everyone.LarryBoy79 (talk) 14:08, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree, and would go further by saying "Like all animals, humans carry trillions of bacteria." I'm going to be BOLD and try this phrasing. Tim Vickers (talk) 19:15, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

Accuracy
This text needs some copy editing, as several sentences are misleading as written. E.g. "Bacteria play a vital role in many stages of the nutrient cycle by recycling nutrients such as the fixation of nitrogen from the atmosphere". Nitrogen fixation is de novo nutrient acquisition, not nutrient recycling. I found several such. 2001:4645:B2FC:0:F04E:4210:8C3E:8247 (talk) 17:46, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for you feedback. See Nitrogen cycle. What were the other "inaccuracies in the first few paragraphs"? Graham Beards (talk) 18:47, 27 April 2023 (UTC)

Schizophyta
I am quoting from the wikipedia article on cyanobacteria: Historically, bacteria were first classified as plants constituting the class Schizomycetes, which along with the Schizophyceae (blue-green algae/Cyanobacteria) formed the phylum Schizophyta ... With this in mind shouldn't the name Schizophyta redirect to Bacteria and not just Cyanobacteria? kupirijo (talk) 11:11, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Survival length
How long does bacteria last for? Cultures conservation (darkness, warmth, moisture) in maybe sugar and lemon remedies. Avyanna.Owam (talk) 16:21, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

 * This article talk page is solely for discussing improvements to the article. You might have better luck getting an answer at the Reference desk. - Donald Albury 19:01, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bacteria