text:
Talk:Fascism

Post-Soviet Russia
Marlene Laruelle, a French political scientist, contends in Is Russia Fascist? that although Russia has been labeled as fascist by different western-affiliated parties before and during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, supposedly evidenced by Russia's annexation of Crimea; its historical revisionism; attacks on liberal democratic values; and its support for far-right movements in Europe, Russia has positioned itself as the world's leading antifascist power because of its sacrifices during the Second World War. At the same time, it has highlighted how opponents of the Soviet Union in Central and Eastern Europe cooperated with Nazi Germany.

For those who kept reverting my edit, what's wrong with this passage and how can I improve it? The★Super★ninja2 (talk) 08:51, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I didn't participate in the revert, but I don't think your addition makes sense. What does the (supposed, here too there would be much to discuss) sacrifices of the USSR in World War II have to do with the Russia of Putin? These are two completely different ages. Alex2006 (talk) 09:58, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * They might be two different ages but it's an important part of the Russian history that it determines the Russian political path and its political orientation to this day. History impacts the present. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 13:56, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * None of this would alter them being fascist, though. — Czello 14:01, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * How not? History is the most important part of the present. It's the reason why a country is the way it is. It's the path that led a country to its place and therefore affects most if not all of its actions. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 14:07, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Fighting fascists in the 40s (not out of choice, either) doesn't mean you can't become fascist 80 years on. — Czello 14:10, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Nothing is certain but it reduces the possibility of you being one ☆SuperNinja2☆ 14:16, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I really don't think it does. However, this is entering WP:NOTAFORUM territory. There's plenty of sources included which argue the case of fascism (through Rashism). — Czello 14:19, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * You're right. This is not a forum so let's stick to the point. The source mentions that "Russia has positioned itself as the world's leading antifascist power" considering its history. it's a fact that she positioned itself at this position according to the source. Whether she has the right to do that, whether you or anybody else recognize it as one, whether her history gives her the credit for this position is not the point. The point is that Russia consider itself as antifascist and this worth mentioning. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 14:36, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * The point is that Russia consider itself as antifascist and this worth mentioning. Well, of course Russia would deny being fascist - it doesn't seem hugely significant. Nonetheless, is this not already mentioned? The article says, efforts to brand opponents as fascist is ultimately an attempt to determine the role of Russia in Europe's future. Unless I'm misinterpreting the meaning of this sentence, it's saying that Russia is attempting to position itself as anti-fascist in the way you described. (Note, this sentence is sourced to the same book - so I think it's effectively a duplication.) — Czello 14:40, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is significant according to WP:DUEWEIGHT. And it's not a duplication considering that this addition will explain why it denies being one (because of its sacrifices during the Second World War) ☆SuperNinja2☆ 14:51, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * In which case, how about rewording the current sentence to Laruelle disentangles the basis, significance, and veracity of accusations of fascism in and around Russia through a thorough analysis of the domestic situation in Russia and the Kremlin's foreign policy justifications; she concludes that efforts to brand its opponents as fascist is ultimately an attempt to determine the role of Russia in Europe's future as an antifascist force, influenced by its role in fighting fascism in World War II. This way we can maintain the existing sentence but supplement it with the material you've suggested. (Slight copyedit not included). — Czello 15:12, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I think this is a good idea. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 15:17, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Brilliant, I've added it now. — Czello 15:27, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * For example, Russia wouldn't have invaded Ukraine if it wasn't part of the USSR and wouldn't use the pretext of it being "nazi" if Russia didn't participate in the WWII. That's just one example. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 14:10, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Aside from being WP:OR, this is also beside the point. Surely the discussion here is whether Russia can be labelled fascist - I have yet to see why being invaded in WW2 undoes their current fascistic actions. — Czello 14:13, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * It's just an example to show you that history affects the present day. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 14:17, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * And possibly emboldens Putin to label his opponents as fascist, but not preventing himself being fascist, as many sources state. — Czello 14:21, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * In addition to what Alex said, I have no idea what that final sentence is supposed to mean. It's whataboutism and completely irrelevant to whether or not Putin's regime is fascist. — Czello 10:23, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it explains the Russian attitude towards the countries of Central and Eastern Europe. ☆SuperNinja2☆ 13:57, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * That wouldn't make them any less fascist. — Czello 14:01, 20 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I've also just noticed this is a copyright violation. — Czello 10:25, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Left-wing fascism
An attempt has been made by User:Soapbox Sam to revive the Left-wing fascism article (by deleting the redirect to this article). I have deleted it with an appropriate edit summary and advice to discuss the matter here. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 21:14, 13 April 2023 (UTC)

 * Agree. I also note that the article the new editor tried to create was an argument that fascism is left-wing. TFD (talk) 00:07, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is problematic. At best, it can be stated that some (even famous) people have said it's left-wing. Because the extreme ends of the political spectrum share many characteristics, some people (maybe those people) get confused. Extremism does that.
 * I think there was a difference between the leaders and the common members. The leaders were caught up in power and control and would be willing to admire and become allies with the leaders on the other side, whereas the rank-and-file members were idealists and could clearly see the ideological, philosophical, and political differences between each side. They maintained the purity of their faiths, unlike their leaders. They did not compromise, and they risked their lives for their causes.
 * I suspect that in the early days, definitions were still being hammered out. Now, all experts consider fascism as right-wing, just as socialism is left-wing. The light of history informs definitions. Already during WW2, socialists and communists were the most ardent haters and fighters of Nazis and other fascists, and vice versa. They populated the underground resistance groups and sabotaged the Nazis. Just that fact informs one that they were at opposite ends of the spectrum. -- Valjean (talk) ( PING me ) 02:17, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The topic would make an interesting article provided we had sufficient secondary sources and followed WP:FRINGE. So far I have only found passing references.
 * In fact, it's only since the war that social scientists have attempted to define the political spectrum. In the inter-war period, left meant Socialists (and later Communists) and right meant their opponents. The terms came to be used this way in the early 20th century and reflects their relative seating at that time. TFD (talk) 21:36, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That's pure bullshit. As our article shows, the left-right distinction comes down to us from the French parliament during their Revolution in the late 18th century. -- Orange Mike |  Talk  00:03, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Actually, it says that defenders of monarchy sat on the right and their opponents on the left. Over time, legislative blocks came to describe themselves by where they sat in the assembly. For example, the Center Party of German, the forerunner of the CDU, called themselves that because they were seated between the conservatives on the right and liberals on the left. But using the terms left and right to describe ideologies only developed in France in the early 20th century and was adopted in other countries within the following decades.
 * Note that Marx and Engels, Weber, and other political commentators never used the terms "left-wing," "right-wing," etc. because they had not yet been coined. What's the earliest use of those terms that you have found? TFD (talk) 02:37, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

 * I think much of the problem is in terminology. Political ideologies which share many characteristics of fascism, but are in other ways left-leaning are not "left-wing fascism", because fascism is, by definition, a right-wing ideology.  Instead these are left-wing authoritarian systems, just as fascism is a right-wing authoritarian system. Political scientists and historians have long noted the similarities and overlaps between the extreme right and the extreme left (see Horseshoe theory), but this does not make them left and right aspects of the same philosophy, it simply makes them related. Nor, for instance, was Strasserism a truly left-wing form of Nazism.  Yes, it was certainly a bit to the left of Hitler's mainstream, but not sufficiently so to make it "left-wing".  It was merely a sort of leftish variation of a right-wing ideology. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:47, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You could build the same case for Donald Trump. He used to be a pro-choice Democrat who supported universal health care. He claims to stand up for the forgotten man over the elites, provided relief during covid, brought in First Step, opposes imperialist wars, etc. Because in politics, successful politicians tell people what they want to hear and may even deliver on some of their promises. Also, these comparisons usually lack context. Fascists continued various programs already in place, just as Trump did. Social security for example, that Reagan had said lead to totalitarianism, remained in place. TFD (talk) 02:52, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not really understanding your point. Beyond My Ken (talk) 05:24, 15 April 2023 (UTC)
 * My point is that the case could be made for any political group being left-wing. We are discussing the existence of an article that says fascism was left-wing. TFD (talk) 02:45, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * That is most certainly not the case. If you believe that, then your understanding of what left and right mean politically is clearly not a consensus one. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:48, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I didn't say a reasonable case could be made. I am merely saying that the same arguments used to classify fascism as left-wing could be applied to any group, including Trumpists. TFD (talk) 00:49, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I could make an argument that a coffee mug is a fruit, but the mere existence of the (fatuous) argument does not mean that any attention should be paid to it. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:10, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

On the "popular culture" section
Recently I removed the "In popular culture" section of the article, calling it "hardly relevant to [the] topic" in my edit summary (which I'll concede is fairly vague). This was promptly reverted. I didn't really feel like arguing about it, but on further reflection, I really don't think it's appropriate for this article based on the references used. The section doesn't comply with the MOS's guideline for trivia sections, which states that articles may include a subject's cultural impact by summarizing its coverage in reliable secondary or tertiary sources. A source should cover the subject's cultural impact in some depth. This article doesn't do that; it's just trivial mentions of a song and a quote from a musician, neither of which are sourced to reliable sources.

The first source is a YouTube upload of an interview with a musician, which is primary, and therefore not reliable; I've removed it due to it being a probable copyright violation, per WP:COPYLINK. The second is a source that summarises Woody Guthrie's career, but mentions nothing about fascism aside from his record label being antifascist. It failed verification, but if you ignore that, it still doesn't comply with the sourcing requirement of the MOS, because the source is a reference work that includes information about class in America, which is only tangentially related to fascism. The second bulletpointed entry about Heaven 17's song doesn't even have any citations, which doesn't demonstrate why it should be included in the article.

Overall, the section needs much better references to warrant inclusion. I think it should be removed from the article entirely, because its relevance to facsism isn't supported by any secondary reliable sources. I'd like to hear some other thoughts on this. ArcticSeeress (talk) 21:11, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * There is no community consensus on Wikipedia for the wholesale removal of "In popular culture" sections from Wikipedia articles, despite the number of activists who really hate them. Our popular culture is an extremely important -- if sometimes ephemeral or embarassing -- part of our society's culture, and Wikipedia should not shut its doors to it simply because it's not "serious" enough to be in an encyclopedia. Beyond My Ken (talk) 00:17, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * You haven't adressed any of my concerns here. I'm not advocating for a blanket ban on such material, nor am I saying that the section should be removed "just because". What I am saying is that the section's sources don't justify its inclusion. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I want to "shut [Wikipedia's] doors" to nonserious material. ArcticSeeress (talk) 02:12, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with removal, "in popular culture" sections don't belong on articles about ideologies (in my opinion), as they wouldn't on other serious topics such as Genocide. Regarding content of this particular "in popular culture" section, its contents do seem like MOS:TRIVIA and hardly tangential to the topic; Anti-fascism contains Woody Guthrie since he is more relevant there. There are way too many notable things that could be listed if this section was kept (which again I think it shouldn't be). –Vipz (talk) 13:37, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm with ArcticSeeress and Vipz on this one, at least insofar as we're discussing the appropriateness of the currently extant material. This material does not appear to merit inclusion here. I'm agnostic as to where and when such sections may be warranted as a general rule. Agree that details like Guthrie's guitar are more appropriate for ancillary articles like Anti-fascism per WP:SUMMARY. Generalrelative (talk) 15:31, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Agree this content is not DUE in the article. Creating a complete section based on this material is hard to justify.  It's not clear that Guthrie's opinion is significant in context the primary topic.  Do sources on fascism cite Guthrie.  This also is, in effect, an entire section which cites just one source. Springee (talk) 02:58, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I do get the feeling that "fascism in popular culture" is a topic that could balloon to be as massive as the rest of the article itself, and I'm not sure what it contributes. I think it's best to do away with it. — Czello (music) 07:58, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Sounds like we're mostly in agreement here. has recently contributed some undoubtedly encyclopedic material, but it seems to me to fit better under the heading "popular culture under fascism" than "fascism in popular culture". I'd be curious to hear his perspective on this question. Generalrelative (talk) 14:53, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes: the popular culture section should have two subsections: "popular culture under fascism" and "fascism in popular culture"--the first subtopic has a substantial scholarly literature especially on Italy--the second  does not and. Rjensen (talk) 17:32, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
 * There seems to be an strong consensus that this material (that is, Fascism in popular culture) isn't warranted in the article. I'll go ahead and remove it seeing as there hasn't been any attempt to justify its inclusion beyond "popular culture sections can be good in general". I'll also remove the bullet points, as it's not really a list section anymore.
 * On a related note: I think it might be better to provide a summary of broad characteristics that popular culture under fascist governments share before introducing specific examples. I'm not familiar with literature regarding this at the moment, so I'll let that lie (or maybe come back to it later). ArcticSeeress (talk) 21:15, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Origin of the word?
Hello, I read the etymology section but can't work out a timeline for when the actual word came into being. This article says 1922 for first usage, but I don't know how trustworthy it is. Tiggy The Terrible (talk) 07:27, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The Online Etymological Dictionary says: "1921, from Italian partito nazionale fascista, the anti-communist political movement organized 1919 under Benito Mussolini (1883-1945); from Italian fascio 'group, association,' literally 'bundle,' from Latin fasces (see fasces).Fasci 'groups of men organized for political purposes' had been a feature of Sicily since c. 1895, and the 20c. totalitarian sense probably came directly from this but was influenced by the historical Roman fasces, which became the party symbol. As a noun from 1922 in English, earlier in Italian plural fascisti (1921), and until 1923 in English it often appeared in its Italian form, as an Italian word." I you can get hold of an OED in a librry, that's the best source for etymological info. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:22, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, the two dictionaries cited in the "Etymology" section -- Merriam-Websters, and Webster's New College -- are pretty standard and trustworthy reference works. Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:27, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it's important to keep in mind that Etymonline is edited by a single person, one who isn't a trained historical linguist. The website is in essence a hobby project, and whether any particular article on the website holds water or not is entirely dependent on how long the editor spends with it. It's impossible to meaningfully verify any of the information on the page without sifting through their massive sources list posted elsewhere on the site, so I'd err on the side of caution with including this. ArcticSeeress (talk) 00:10, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm curious if it's worth including the historical significance of the Roman fasces, since it pretty closely correlates to the authoritarian roots of fascism (given that "holding fasces" signified the power of the state). Delukiel (talk) 08:08, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

An inherent contradiction?
The lead of the article sets out an extremely detailed and very broad definition of fascism, selecting references that support the authors' arguments. Then the next section admits that there is no agreed definition of fascism, and that authoritative (at least, referenced) views of what it is differ to the extent that no broadly agreed definition is possible.

I shall make the radical suggestion that there is no generic or accepted definition of fascism, nor can there be in terms of how the word has entered general usage. The possible exception is the Italian regime of 1922-1943 led by Benito Mussolini which (as I understand it) styled itself Fascism. Other than that, I suggest that all definitions of fascism are essentially descriptions of political and economic systems to which the authors of those definitions are opposed, i.e. expressions of authorial opinion. This is not the purpose of WP.

I do not suggest that all is lost. Authoritarian political systems, for example, can be defined in ways that meet broad agreement, even if individuals disagree whether particular systems are or are not authoritarian. Democracy, Autarky and other politico-economic manifestations can be defined similarly. Fascism can't.

This can be regarded as a plea for humility from WP, i.e. an acceptance that it cannot be the arbiter of a definition that can never achieve more than partisan acceptance. A true definition, I suggest, would be 'a term of abuse for a variety of politico-economic systems, used by parties opposed to them.' You could then go on to include examples. Italian (1922-1943) Fascism would be a separate topic, since there is no causal or other connection. Chrismorey (talk) 13:17, 7 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I would take this more seriously if the next section had not been Etomolgy, which does not discuss anything about no agreed definition. Slatersteven (talk) 13:21, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

Slatersteven deleted my edit. I don't know why.
I was being bold. It probably wasn't a constructive edit. I didn't understand Slatersteven's question and why he reverted.Nashhinton (talk) 14:15, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * It was not a question, your wording implies it was once something, but no longer is. I made the point that it has not changed, it is still right-wing popularism. Slatersteven (talk) 14:21, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay. Nashhinton (talk) 14:24, 19 July 2024 (UTC)
 * "right-wing popularism" Right-wing populism, not popularism. Dimadick (talk) 09:10, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
 * Point still stands. Slatersteven (talk) 10:31, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Fascism


text:
Talk:Freyja

Statistics
Feb 2008: this article is viewed 26430 times (Freya 8001 times, Freyja 18438 times). Overprotective Anonymous IP Guardian 08:59, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Friday
Shouldn't the article mention somewhere that "Friday" in the English language is named after Freja? (Based on the old Greek planet/god/day of week Venus, the Goddess of Love was equated with Freja and thus in Germanic ares Friday is the sixth day of the week. In countries that have Latin derived languages the connection to Venus is intact.  Italian: venerdì.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.32.253.72 (talk) 18:18, 26 March 2010 (UTC)
 * This also grabbed my attention, for Edith Hamilton asserts the same in her Mythology. However, the articles on Frigg and Friday state that Friday is named after her. It seems to me that all three articles, Freyja, Frigg, and Friday, should mention the possibility. Helixer  (talk) 03:06, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Friday is indeed named after Frigg, or rather the English version of Frigg, and not Freyja. Considering Freyja is associated with love in the sources we have, not Frigg, this is indeed curious, but it's not a mistake. It's possible that the Scandinavian fredag (friday) actually means Freyja's day, but it's hard to tell exactly. Unlike the rest of the week the Old Norse word for friday seems to have been a German loanword, possibly. --88.90.166.164 (talk) 02:32, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Freja
Freja is the real name of the godess i Norse Mythlogy. Not Freyja or Freya, both of the names are anglicized.

Here is the Swedish article on Freja; http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freja

Here is the Danish article on Freja; http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freja

Here is the Finish article on Freja; http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freja —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.255.18.124 (talk) 07:24, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

 * The normalized Old Norse spelling is Freyja. Old Norse manuscripts spell it as Freyia or Freyja (there was no distinction between 'j' and 'i' back then). The form Freja is a modern mainland Scandinavian form, not an Anglicization. Check page 9 verso of the Codex Regius of the Poetic Edda - look at the fourth word in line 18 - it is FREYIA, clear as day. Haukur (talk) 16:51, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Since this is the English version of Wikipedia, shouldn't we be using the (popular) Anglicized version of her name, Freya? The many foreign variants are just confusing and seem to try to render invalid any links to Germanic heritage (ie. Beowulf)--75.6.154.98 (talk) 04:06, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

 * No. The only correct form in English is the normalized Old Norse spelling, Freyja, as given above by Haukur. It's bad enough that only the English pronunciation is given. My understanding is that the Old Norse pronunciation was more like [ˈfrœʏ jɑ]. 96.239.83.21 (talk) 23:53, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

This is the English Language wikipedia, people here speak English. It makes no sense to say its bad that an English reading of her name is somehow bad. Do people all over the world in say Japanese, Portuguese pronounce it as the Old Norse do? No. This is not how languages work when rendering foreign names into their respective languages. Old Norse pronunciation is meaningless for Portuguese, Japanese, Russian, English speakers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.241.110.177 (talk) 14:53, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Rewrite launched
I have launched my rewrite of this article.

The old version was in outright mess. Problems were numerous, ranging from some sections without references to original research, theories presented as fact, numerous unattributed translation quotes, blatant agenda pushing, poor references, and incidents of confused, simply incorrect information (for example, stanzas from a 19th century poem attributed to an Old Norse text...).

The rewrite is incomplete and it probably needs copyediting (help?). There is much to be done here yet. Here's a quick to-do list: In time... bloodofox: (talk) 08:29, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
 * 1) There are more attestations that need to be added to the "Other" section
 * 2) I'd like to go into a lot more detail about eponyms
 * 3) We need to bring in folklore information from Scandinavian sources outside of Sweden
 * 4) Freyja's names need attention. Perhaps a sub-article called Names of Freyja? ✅

Etymology section
Please "rewrite" articles on topics you understand. Etymology is clearly not among these. I am sure your Grundy reference is fine, but you keep misrepresenting it, I am with no sinister intention, but Hanlon says the effect is the same.

Haukur, perhaps you can address the etymology and Frigg-Freyja question? Bloodofox goes into a berserkergang of irrational antagonism every time he sees my name on his watchlist, so perhaps you can fix this with less noise and friction. --dab (𒁳) 10:48, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

 * This is comedy. So now you've actually looked at the Grundy reference, instead of blindly reverting to your old version (, containing a whopping one reference—to Grimm) and claiming that the section has "deteriorated"? What you need to do is sit down, take your foot out of your mouth, and actually read the reference. After that, do tell me what I'm "misrepesenting"! bloodofox: (talk) 13:40, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

 * Well, I think "Freyja is not a personal name but a title" would perhaps be better put as "Freyja is originally not a personal name but a title". In the Norse sources we do have, Freyja only ever refers to the goddess and is never used as a title for any other being. So, perhaps it was a title in Proto-Norse but I don't think you could call it a title when Snorri was writing and I doubt it was a title in the 10th century either.

 * I know you guys don't get along and prefer different styles of referencing and so on but there doesn't seem to be any very substantial disagreement over facts here. Or am I missing something? Haukur (talk) 14:52, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Lead Image Dispute
A dispute has appeared between the image that should be in the introduction to this article, as is evident on the article history page. Rather than continuing to revert, let's discuss why the debated images or more or less appropriate for the lead section of this article.

My choice is the Bauer image (to the right of this text). My argument is that it better represents Freyja, and is thus more appropriate for the lead image, as the lead is a summary of the article contents. Here is my reasoning: With those reasons supplied, I note also that the scan that we have of Bauer's painting is high resolution, whereas the Zorn image is not. But more importantly, the Zorn image depicts Freyja very differently than the lore we have about her does—in a perhaps defeated, perhaps drunk, reclined position and lacking all of the qualities she is attested as having—and while I do not necessarily have a problem with the painting, I do not think it is representative of Freyja nor an article about her. I vote that it be relegated to an appropriate subsection of the article.
 * 1) Freyja is in an upright, assertive position, as the important and powerful deity she is attested as
 * 2) Freyja is depicted with gold hair, reflecting her connection to crop fertility (for example the name Hörn)
 * 3) Freyja is depicted in front of water; Freyja has major aquatic associations (for example the nameMardöll)

Please provide your reasoning for your preference for the Zorn painting. bloodofox: (talk) 20:40, 18 April 2011 (UTC)

Anders Zorn "Freja" 1901

The user's bias against Zorn's depiction is evident in his less than subjective interpretations. The fact that the user feels justified in disregarding a reputed artist's portrayal by ascribing derogatory terms such as "drunk", "defeated", speaks to motivations outside of what Wikipedia is touted to represent. While it is noble to interpret a work and to arrive at judgments in the forum of scholarly debate, it is quite a different matter to hurl prejudiced opinion without the slightest semblance of careful forethought. It seems that the user has conscripted misogynist insecurities upon a painting while attempting to mask those reservations in legitimate intellectual discourse. The assertion that the favored image by Bauer, "better represents Freyja" is dubious - revealing an irrational visceral attachment in preference to one painting over the other without logical reason. The user's dismissiveness suggests a lack of competency in understanding the subject which betrays a professed knowledge that the user would claim to represent. Simultaneously, the user lauds baseless criticisms that change according to whichever argument seems most convenient. The user appears unqualified in the capacity he would choose to elect for himself as an authoritative art critic, editor, or historian of Norse mythology.

In reconfiguring the article with Zorn's painting as lead image, no attempt was made for controversy or conflict, as the Bauer painting was repositioned and included as the very next image in the article. However, the user made no attempt, in subsequent edits, to even contemplate diplomacy by incorporating Zorn's painting anywhere in the body of the text. The gesture would have been appreciated by any user who wishes to cooperate collaboratively…. it is unfortunate that the user instead claimed ownership of the entire article - of the subject..

His criticism for the exclusion of the image in question is noncommittal, and deviates wildly from point to point: firstly, the claim was an objection to negative impacts on "formatting" - which, as any honest editor comparing both versions can see, is again, baseless. Secondly, the user expounds his claim that the image is of "low resolution", another erroneous argument made despite the fact that a higher resolution image had indeed been uploaded. The Zorn painting "Freja" is SUITABLE TO REPRESENT THE SUBJECT OF THE ARTICLE AS THE SUBJECT OF THE WRITTEN TEXT AND THE SUBJECT OF THE VISUAL DEPICTION ARE *BOTH* INTERPRATATIONAL BY THEIR VERY NATURE - AND CORRESPOND TO THE SUBJECT, WHICH IS ONE IN THE SAME. By this criteria, the Bauer painting is also suitable, nevertheless, the issue has now been posited as to which painting is more suitably "descript". Nowhere in Wikipedia does it state that resolution of an image is grounds, in and of itself, for removal from an article. In fact, Wikepedia suggests that an image that is too high in resolution may infringe on copyright - as it is therefore potentially usable beyond mere visual representation as an article of encyclopedic variety.

It is instructive to compare the two paintings at issue on their surface in addition to within the context of the electronic methods and means of the "scan". The Bauer image in question is fair and appears in faded pastel coloration; however, there is much variation between sources as to the appearance of the original piece. Furthermore, the stylistic approach present in Bauer's Freja appears dissimilar to some of his more refined works - leading to questions of viability of the work vs. damage to the original source vs. integrity of the file. Objectively, as a lead header image, the Bauer painting appears overly washed out, comparatively, to some of his more realized works, and therefore it is felt that the painting's impact is compromised in this venue to work effectively. Bauer's work being overly difficult to discern was the assertion which lead to the conflict at hand. Exactly what the image "is" must necessitate viewing at fuller resolution, which distracts away from the article itself.

Conversely, Zorn paints Freja boldly - the full bountifulness of her divine womanhood suggests, as it should, bounty as in fertility, as is appropriate for her associative role of the Fertility Goddess she at least partly represents. The boldness of her depiction is appropriate in that it echoes frequent descriptions of her character as wildly assertive and free in her untamed feminine sexuality. The Bauer image, other than the name of the painting, incorporates little in terms of recognizable iconography representative of what embodies "Freja". Besides the aforementioned color of her hair, there is very little to illustrate even a basic representation of Freja, as she is "traditionally" depicted. The association of the sea to Freja is far removed, at best, from the core of her mythology. In her role as presiding over the elements, she is aligned with the element of fire more closely than to water.

When discussing Freja as the Goddess who presides over love, she is related to "flames of desire" in terms of "the burning lust of passion and the warmth of love". In Zorn's painting, the palette is therefore suitably "warm". The primordial fires of creation, as described by the rune Feoh, are the same golden flames represented by Freja as a fertility goddess. According to record, the golden fires are said to spurn on Creation as well as the creative [artistic] spirit, which is intrinsically tied to her role as Goddess. The flames of fertility, and thusly, of creativity, can transform into energies of destruction if obstructed, which further relates to Freja's role as a Goddess of War. She is again allied more closely with fire, not water, when the light of her beauty is said to illuminate the underworld. In visual depictions of the rune Feoh, Freja's tears are the gold and amber showers of fire, not rain, which descend through the cosmos, forging worlds, and nourishing the earth. The significance of her tears factors heavily into her role as fertility goddess, testifying to her central role as a nurturing and creative force synonymous with the flames of creation in bringing about new beginnings and in providing for an abundance of wealth (which is tied to the original meaning as related to cattle as described by the runic alphabet ). Another of her alt. name is Sýr, or sow, more an association with cattle and livestock, and thusly Feoh, than anything else... It could be said that the embodiment of Freja herself is representative of the fires of creation. Fire is also manifest in her role as mistress of the inner seith-fire, or innate magical and spiritual ability. Freja, thereby, reaches into popular consciousness in the modern day with those who see her as having associations with old world Witchcraft. In any case, the grounds could be argued that she is more closely aligned with fire than water. The ne'er oft used name "Mardöll", as cited by the user, seems most pertinent in relation to her capacity as a fertility goddess, as her golden tears fall like rain. However, that an alternate name, Mardöll, connotes a link with the sea and that her father, Njörd, was the God of the sea, speaks little to her own legend overall. In a concession of goodwill, exclude either of the elements of fire or water, as they may or may not pertain to Freja - for the discussion of such details is highly interpretational depending upon translation and sources. The inclusion of fire as it relates to the topic, as it pertains to this dispute, was an attempt to illustrate a point…

As for the Zorn painting, to speak of the portrayal in terms of particularities towards her identifying characteristics: her "reclining" on what could be understood a "throne" is a narrative on her relaxed contentment in her sphere of being: as she has been widely described as absolute in her authoritative domain - from such divergent realms ranging from Goddess of Sexuality to her capacity as a Goddess of War. Here, she is depicted, in her grand hall, presiding over the field Fólkvangar in Asgard (Goddess of Death). This is integral to her role as Supreme Goddess over valkyries - in choosing half of the heroic slain from the fallen on the battlefield. Her disrobed state could be confused, as is often the case with Freja, with misinformed assertions of her tendencies towards lustful promiscuity. Rather, her relaxed nature has a dual context - the subtext of one is just as viable as the other.

One interpretation maintains that her depiction as a female nude has the inverse effect dispelling typical notions of a blushing demure femininity commonly signifying vulnerability, overt sexuality and/or denoting sin. Instead, she is displayed as goddess of both strength and sensuality, as is befitting, in her palace "Sessrumnir". It is an error to view Zorn's painting through a narrow guise - ascribing vulgar vices of human mortality... earthly concepts of drunkenness or slovenliness ... as others have inferred.

Another interpretation is that her stance is in recognition to her personal character, introspectively speaking, beyond outward appearances or to the titles of her mythology itself. She is "humanized" here, and perhaps this is what the user is objecting to. Morose, bordering on melancholy, deep colors of burnt umber, browns and blacks, recesses in darkness usher forth her white body in a glorious exposition, with a fittingly somber tone. After all, she was said to weep tears of gold and amber. A saddened state, it could be argued, was correct by Zorn's brush, as she forever wandered the earth in searching for her lost husband. Her lustrously golden hair, therefore, could be rightly interpreted as properly displayed in a darker hue, in shadow, closer to her true emotional nature. An attempt, it could be argued, was made to define Freja outside of her more primary "roles" of Goddess of war, death, beauty, sex, love, fertility... The chalice she nonchalantly holds has several connotations, as in partaking in pleasure, while more aptly suggesting another dimension to her status as deity: of her use of "seidhr" - loosely translated "chaos magic". The inclusion of the black cat at her feet is representative of the two felines which pull her chariot. Furthermore, on each of the arms of her "throne" are carvings representing a hawk, and on the other, a boar. Finally, while admittedly difficult to discern in this scale, passing reference is made to her feathered cloak, which is draped loosely by her side.

In it's totality, the Zorn painting presents an unabashed view of femininity, beauty, and sexuality, which is fundamental to defining Freja while rooting her identity in the substance of her mythology. The painting is atypical, in that it probes further into her psyche on a more humanistic level, presenting a goddess who is preoccupied with love and loss, romantically speaking, by which her sadness is central to her story. The emotional dimension of her story, however, is given more emphasis and is configured hierarchically, usurping even the multifaceted role of Freja as GODDESS. It is arguable, therefore, whether or not Zorn's decision to frame the subject in this manner results in a painting that diverges from presenting her recognizably -- or, as is the position taken here, it is precisely his treatment of the subject that results in a portrayal uniquely credible in describing Freja beyond conventionality. This may very well be an atypical portrayal of a deity who is commonly thought of in broad banners of one word concepts ie. "LOVE/WAR". Here, in Zorn's portrayal, she is a generously realized suitable to her mythology as the most divinely beautiful amongst all goddesses, while her character was treated with sensitivity. It is a more thorough portrayal, therefore, both in terms of the symbolism of her lore and accuracy in the substance of uncharacteristically complex and important descriptive traits - psychological, emotional, and practical..

As a lead image, the assertion remains that the Zorn painting is certainly more readily accessible as a picture in thumbnail form - functioning "provocatively", as Freja herself should. In terms of functionality, therefore, Zorn's portrayal is better suited to garner attention towards this article, and thereby, exposes knowledge of Freja - deservedly - to inquisitive and curious minds who might not otherwise inadvertently stumble upon her.........

Häxa-gudinna: April 22, 20011 —Preceding undated comment added 06:30, 22 April 2011 (UTC).

 * While I'm going to sidestep your personal attacks and assumptions as you are a new user (but do see Civility and No personal attacks), I do need to correct you on a few points:
 * Freyja is not attested as weeping amber, but rather "red gold" (ctrl + f on the article). Whether or not amber was in fact meant by this would require further evidence, which is not impossible. However, were such a case made, it would only strengthen the aquatic associations of the goddess (amber was collected after it washed up on shores). In connection, see my next point.
 * Freyja is not attested as having any particularly strong association with fire. With water, however, she and her family line have strong connections: not only does Freyja bear the aforementioned name Mardöll but also Gefn—which points to various other sea associations—and, further, she also possesses the Brísingamen, which was most likely a sort of drift seed amulet (there's a bit about this towards the end of the Singasteinn article—I highly recommend tracking down Meaney's "Drift Seeds and the Brísingamen"). On top of this, her father is, yes, Njörðr who is highly associated with all things water, and her brother owns "the best of ships" Skíðblaðnir. All are very strongly connected to prosperity/fertility. Her unnamed mother/aunt is more mysterious, and I'll refrain from commenting on her here.
 * Anyway, while I disagree with the majority of your assessments above, I do think that the painting should be used, but not in the lead. Formatting remains an issue; too many images means that mobile devices and some other displays will have issues and so we've kept a little space. The image is also still an unfortunately low resolution, even if we have a larger version of it. If it's public domain, copyright is not an issue.

 * With all of this in mind, I've replaced an ho-hum image that was on the article with the Zorn image, which I think makes a nice contrast to the courtly image above it. Hopefully this will solve the issue. bloodofox: (talk) 18:55, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

cats
cats are unnamed. what are the names of the cats? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.234.244.105 (talk) 04:16, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The primary sources do not offer names for the cats, unfortunately. :bloodofox: (talk) 16:13, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Bygul and Trjegul are the names of the cats, according to what sources I could find. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 118.208.239.85 (talk) 12:33, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Whatever the source for the two names you list, these names are not found in the Old Norse corpus. They are modern inventions. :bloodofox: (talk) 14:57, 8 September 2015 (UTC)
 * The cats are only named in the books of modern fantasy author Diana Paxson. For some reason the names spread. --88.90.166.164 (talk) 02:14, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

goddess of love/war & fertility/death?
There reads: goddess associated with love, sexuality, beauty, fertility, gold, seiðr, war, and death

Of those; love, sexuality, beauty and fertility are the usual ones. Every wikipedia I can understand has only those, so did the "regular" encyclopedia which I checked. And it seems odd that such opposite values are linked to same goddess. 85.217.34.67 (talk) 01:26, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * None of these associations are particularly opposite; see, for example, the Thesmophoria. Death and fertility go hand in hand. While not complete, this is easily the most comprehensive encyclopedia entry on the goddess anywhere and you can find examples of all of these associations throughout this article. :bloodofox: (talk) 21:46, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * AS I
 * I agree. Freya is associate with beauty, love, sex, and fertility.119.92.93.84 (talk) 18:13, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Name
I have noticed there have been a number of repeated attempts to add Frejya as an alternate spelling of the name, as well as a number of other supposed "alternative spellings." While these alternatives may be personal names derived from the name of the goddess, as far as I am aware, none of these alternative forms are commonly used in application to the goddess herself. The most common English versions of the name are Freyja and Freya. Freja and Freyia are rarer, but still not unheard of, English transliterations. The new additions, by contrast, are not commonly used to refer to the goddess. I am, for instance, aware of people with the given name Froya, but I have never once heard anyone call Freyja "Froya." Unless someone can prove that these alternative names are commonly used in reference to the goddess herself, I think we can safely omit them. --Katolophyromai (talk) 04:52, 26 June 2017 (UTC)

Infobox
I have reverted 's addition of an infobox. These are misleading—they imply equivalencies that are not necessarily so—and reductive—they impose a saint-like set of functions on deities who were not necessarily thought of that way (and may well have changed in function over time). It's not an improvement, and ArbCom has rejected the argument that there is some benefit to them for consistency's sake. Yngvadottir (talk) 01:05, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

Addition of "fairies" template
Recently an editor added and then readded Template:Fairies to this article. This appears to be because an editor included both Freyja and Freyr the in template (which I've since removed). As neither deities are described as "fairies" anywhere in the folklore record (neither during the pagan period nor beyond), their inclusion is presumably because of some idea of elves as "fairies" (Freyr is associated with elves), a notoriously slippery term with a complex history. Discussion of elves as "fairies" needs to be restricted to elf, where it can be handled in the context of the development of the semantically blurry term fairy, and in context with the development of elves from Germanic paganism into Christianization and into today. The template needs to go. :bloodofox: (talk) 16:22, 26 April 2018 (UTC)

?
why this article without ifobox? --FPP (talk) 13:49, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Violation
The title of the page is a violation on wikipedia. "Freya" is the most common spelling. Rosengarten Zu Worms (talk) 18:48, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Freyja


text:
Forge

A forge is a type of hearth used for heating metals, or the workplace (smithy) where such a hearth is located. The forge is used by the smith to heat a piece of metal to a temperature at which it becomes easier to shape by forging, or to the point at which work hardening no longer occurs. The metal (known as the "workpiece") is transported to and from the forge using tongs, which are also used to hold the workpiece on the smithy's anvil while the smith works it with a hammer. Sometimes, such as when hardening steel or cooling the work so that it may be handled with bare hands, the workpiece is transported to the slack tub, which rapidly cools the workpiece in a large body of water. However, depending on the metal type, it may require an oil quench or a salt brine instead; many metals require more than plain water hardening. The slack tub also provides water to control the fire in the forge.

Coal/coke/charcoal forge

A forge typically uses bituminous coal, industrial coke or charcoal as the fuel to heat metal. The designs of these forges have varied over time, but whether the fuel is coal, coke or charcoal the basic design has remained the same.

A forge of this type is essentially a hearth or fireplace designed to allow a fire to be controlled such that metal introduced to the fire may be brought to a malleable state or to bring about other metallurgical effects (hardening, annealing, and tempering as examples). The forge fire in this type of forge is controlled in three ways: amount of air, the volume of fuel, and shape of the fuel/fire.

Over thousands of years of forging, these devices have evolved in one form or another as the essential features of this type of forge:

 * Tuyere—a pipe through which air can be forced into the fire
 * Bellows or blower—a means for forcing air into the tuyere
 * Hearth—a place where the burning fuel can be contained over or against the tuyere opening. Traditionally hearths have been constructed of mud-brick (adobe), fired brick, stone, or later, constructed of iron.

During operation, fuel is placed in or on the hearth and ignited. A source of moving air, such as a fan or bellows, introduces additional air into the fire through the tuyere. With additional air, the fire consumes fuel faster and burns hotter (and cleaner - smoke can be thought of as escaped potential fuel).

A blacksmith balances the fuel and air in the fire to suit particular kinds of work. Often this involves adjusting and maintaining the shape of the fire.

In a typical coal forge, a firepot will be centred in a flat hearth. The tuyere will enter the firepot at the bottom. In operation, the hot core of the fire will be a ball of burning coke in and above the firepot. The heart of the fire will be surrounded by a layer of hot but not burning coke. Around the unburnt coke will be a transitional layer of coal being transformed into coke by the heat of the fire. Surrounding all is a ring or horseshoe-shaped layer of raw coal, usually kept damp and tightly packed to maintain the shape of the fire's heart and to keep the coal from burning directly so that it "cooks" into coke first.

If a larger fire is necessary, the smith increases the air flowing into the fire as well as feeding and deepening the coke heart. The smith can also adjust the length and width of the fire in such a forge to accommodate different shapes of work.

The major variation from the forge and fire just described is a 'backdraft' where there is no fire pot, and the tuyere enters the hearth horizontally from the back wall.

Coke and charcoal may be burned in the same forges that use coal, but since there is no need to convert the raw fuel at the heart of the fire (as with coal), the fire is handled differently.

Individual smiths and specialized applications have fostered the development of a variety of forges of this type, from the coal forge described above to simpler constructions amounting to a hole in the ground with a pipe leading into it.

Gas forge
A gas forge typically uses propane or natural gas as the fuel. One common, efficient design uses a cylindrical forge chamber and a burner tube mounted at a right angle to the body. The chamber is typically lined with refractory materials such as a hard castable refractory ceramic or a soft ceramic thermal blanket (ex: Kaowool). The burner mixes fuel and air which are ignited at the tip, which protrudes a short way into the chamber lining. The air pressure, and therefore heat, can be increased with a mechanical blower or by taking advantage of the Venturi effect.

Gas forges vary in size and construction, from large forges using a big burner with a blower or several atmospheric burners to forges built out of a coffee can utilizing a cheap, simple propane torch. A small forge can even be carved out of a single soft firebrick.

The primary advantage of a gas forge is the ease of use, particularly for a novice. A gas forge is simple to operate compared to coal forges, and the fire produced is clean and consistent. They are less versatile, as the fire cannot be reshaped to accommodate large or unusually shaped pieces. It is also difficult to heat a small section of a piece. A common misconception is that gas forges cannot produce enough heat to enable forge-welding, but a well-designed gas forge is hot enough for any task.

Finery forge
A finery forge is a water-powered mill where pig iron is refined into wrought iron.

Anvil
The anvil serves as a workbench to the blacksmith, where the metal to be forged is worked. Anvils may seem clunky and heavy, but they are a highly refined tool carefully shaped to suit a blacksmith's needs. Anvils are made of cast or wrought iron with a tool steel face welded on or of a single piece of cast or forged tool steel. Some anvils are made of only cast iron and have no tool steel face. These are not real anvils, and will not serve a blacksmith as such because they are too soft. A common term for a cast iron anvil is "ASO" or "Anvil Shaped Object". The purpose of a tool steel face on an anvil is to provide what some call "rebound" as well as being hard and not denting easily from misplaced hammer blows. The term rebound means it projects some of the force of the blacksmith's hammer blows back into the metal thus moving more metal at once than if there were no rebound. A good anvil can project anywhere from 50 to 99% of the energy back into the workpiece. The flat top, called the "face" is highly polished and usually has two holes (but can have more or less depending on the design). The square hole is called the hardy hole, where the square shank of the hardy tool fits. There are many different kinds of hardy tools. The smaller hole is called the pritchel hole, used as a bolster when punching holes in hot metal, or to hold tools similar to how the hardy tool does, but for tools that require being able to turn a 360-degree angle such as a hold-down tool for when the blacksmith's tongs cannot hold a workpiece as securely as it needs to be. On the front of the anvil, there is sometimes a "horn" that is used for bending, drawing out steel, and many other tasks. Between the horn and the anvil face, there is often a small area called a "step" or a "cutting table" That is used for cutting hot or cold steel with chisels, and hot cut tools without harming the anvil's face. Marks on the face transfer into imperfections in the blacksmith's work.

Hammer

There are many types of hammer used in a blacksmith's workshop but this will name just a few common ones. Hammers can range in shape and weight from half an ounce to nearly 30 pounds depending on the type of work being done with it.

 * 1) Hand hammer - used by the smith.
 * 2) * Ball-peen hammer
 * 3) * Cross-peen hammer
 * 4) * Straight-peen hammer
 * 5) * Rounding hammer
 * 6) Sledge hammer - used by the striker.

Chisel
Chisels are made of high carbon steel. They are hardened and tempered at the cutting edge while the head is left soft so it will not crack when hammered. Chisels are of two types, hot and cold chisels. The cold chisel is used for cutting cold metals while the hot chisel is for hot metals. Usually, hot chisels are thinner and therefore can not be substituted with cold chisels. Also, many smiths shape chisels as to have a simple twisted handle as to resemble a hammer, they can be used at a greater distance away from the hot metals. They are very useful and found throughout the world.

Tongs
Tongs are used by the blacksmith for holding hot metals securely. The mouths are custom made by the smith in various shapes to suit the gripping of various shapes of metal. It is not uncommon for a blacksmith to own twenty or more pairs of tongs; traditionally, a smith would start building their collection during the apprenticeship. There are various types of tongs available in the market. (1) flat tong (2) rivet or ring tong (3) straight lip fluted tong (4) gad tong

Fuller
Fullers are forming tools of different shapes used in making grooves or hollows. They are often used in pairs, the bottom fuller has a square shank which fits into the hardy hole in the anvil while the top fuller has a handle. The work is placed on the bottom fuller and the top is placed on the work and struck with a hammer. The top fuller is also used for finishing round corners and for stretching or spreading metal.

Hardy
The hardy tool is a tool with a square shank that fits in a hardy hole. There are many different kinds of hardy tools such as the hot cut hardy, used for cutting hot metal on the anvil; the fuller tool, used for drawing out metal and making grooves; bending jigs - and too many others to list.

Slack tub
A slack tub is usually a large container full of water used by a blacksmith to quench hot metal. The slack tub is principally used to cool parts of the work during forging (to protect them, or keep the metal in one area from "spreading" for example, nearby hammer blows); to harden the steel; to tend a coal or charcoal forge; and simply to cool the work quickly for easy inspection. In bladesmithing and tool-making the term will usually be changed to a "quench tank" because oil or brine is used to cool the metal. The term slack is believed to derive from the word "slake", as in slaking the heat.

Drop forging
Drop forging is a process used to shape metal into complex shapes by dropping a heavy hammer with a die on its face onto the workpiece.

Process
The workpiece is placed into the forge. Then the impact of a hammer causes the heated material, which is very malleable, to conform to the shape of the die and die cavities. Typically only one die is needed to completely form the part. Extra space between the die faces causes some of the material to be pressed out of the sides, forming flash. This acts as a relief valve for the extreme pressure produced by the closing of the die halves and is later trimmed off of the finished part.

Equipment
The equipment used in the drop forming process is commonly known as a power or drop hammer. These may be powered by air, hydraulics, or mechanics. Depending on how the machine is powered, the mass of the ram, and the drop height, the striking force can be anywhere from 11,000 to 425,000 pounds. The tools that are used, dies and punches, come in many different shapes and sizes, as well as materials. Examples of these shapes are flat and v-shaped which are used for open-die forging, and single or multiple-impression dies used for closed die forging. The designs for the dies have many aspects to them that must be considered. They all must be properly aligned, they must be designed so the metal and the flash will flow properly and fill all the grooves, and special considerations must be made for supporting webs and ribs and the parting line location. The materials must also be selected carefully. Some factors that go into the material selection are cost, their ability to harden, their ability to withstand high pressures, hot abrasion, heat cracking, and other such things. The most common materials used for the tools are carbon steel and, in some cases, nickel-based alloys.

Workpiece materials
The materials that are used most commonly in drop forging are aluminium, copper, nickel, mild steel, stainless steel, and magnesium. Mild steel is the best choice, and magnesium generally performs poorly as a drop forging material.

Mythology
Various gods and goddesses are associated with the forge in a number of mythologies, such as the Irish Brigid, West African Ogun, Greek Hephaestus and Roman Vulcan.

title: Forge


text:
Five Pillars of Islam

The Five Pillars of Islam (arkān al-Islām أركان الإسلام; also arkān ad-dīn أركان الدين "pillars of the religion") are fundamental practices in Islam, considered to be obligatory acts of worship for all Muslims. They are summarized in the hadith of Gabriel. The Sunni and Shia agree on the basic details of the performance and practice of these acts, but the Shia do not refer to them by the same name (see Ancillaries of the Faith, for the Twelvers, and Seven pillars of Ismailism). They are: Muslim creed, prayer, charity to the poor, fasting in the month of Ramadan, and the pilgrimage to Mecca for those who are able.

Overview of the Five Pillars of Islam
The ritual obligations of Muslims are called the Five Pillars. They are acknowledged and practiced by Muslims throughout the world, notwithstanding their disparities. They are viewed as compulsory for individuals who genuinely wish to pursue a life like that which Islamic prophet Muhammad led. Like other religions, Islam holds certain practices to be standard; however, that does not imply that all individuals who regard themselves as Muslims necessarily observe them. Individual participation can vary depending on the individual's faith; for example, not every individual prays every day, keeps the fast, performs the Hajj, or donates extensively to charity. There are also Muslim communities such as Alevis who reject the Five Pillars but follows Four Doors system.

Shortly after the Muslim Arabs conquered new terrains, they started raising mosques and castles and commissioning different commemorations and artifacts as articulations of their faith and culture. The religious practice of Islam, which signifies "submission to God", depends on fundamentals that are known as the Five Pillars. Each of the five pillars is alluded to in the Quran, though in various chapters (suwar). Further insights concerning these commitments are given in the Hadith.

Though comparable practices were performed in pre-Islamic Arabia and by Jews and Christians at the time of Muhammad, they were changed in the Quran and Hadith, given a carefully monotheistic center, and identified with the life of Muhammad. In the Quran, in spite of the fact that the Shahada does not show up in full, Quran urges the individuals who accept to obey God and his Messenger. Prayer is alluded to multiple times, with prayer times referenced in Quran, and the demonstrations of bowing and prostrating in 48.29. In a few chapters, Muslims are urged both to pray and give alms (for example Q.), however what, when and to whom gifts ought to be made is clarified in more detail in the hadith. There is a critical entry on fasting in the Quran, which alludes to the period of Ramadan and sets out the detail on who ought, and ought not fast, to a certain extent under specific conditions. Regarding the matter of the Hajj, the longest Quranic section recommends the destination location of the pilgrimage, the lead and exercises of the individuals who participate, urging them to have God as a top priority consistently.

First pillar: Shahada (Declaration of Faith)
The first pillar of Islam is the Shahada, the assertion of faith. There are two shahadas: "There is no god but God" and "Muhammad is the messenger of God". This set statement is normally recited in Arabic: lā ʾilāha ʾillā-llāhu muḥammadun rasūlu-llāh (لَا إِلٰهَ إِلَّا الله مُحَمَّدٌ رَسُولُ الله) "There is no god but God (and) Muhammad is the messenger of God." It is essential to utter it to become a Muslim and to convert to Islam.

The first shahada promotes the essential unity of the faith, proclaiming that there is no god but God. The Tawhid, which is the prayer that states "no god but God" is a major component of the Islamic faith, for it asserts the monotheistic aspect of Islam, promoting unity of God as the source of existence. The second shahada demonstrates God's essential mercy. This prayer proclaims Muhammad as the last prophet, and it uses Muhammad as the prime example of guidance for all Muslims. Muhammad received revelation that was distorted by earlier communities, such as Jewish and Christian societies; Muhammad was the recipient of the Quran's guidance himself and now is bearer of this guidance for the rest of the Muslim community throughout history.

The Shahada, or profession of faith is said five times a day during prayer. It is the first thing said to a newborn, and the last thing to a person on their death-bed, showing how the Muslim prayer and the pillars are instrumental from the day a person is born until the day they die.

Second Pillar: Salah (Prayer)
The Second Pillar of Sunni Islam is Salah, or prayer. Before a prayer is observed, ablutions are performed including washing one's hands, face and feet. A caller (Muezzin in Arabic) chants aloud from a raised place in the mosque. Verses from the Quran are recited either loudly or silently. These prayers are a very specific type of prayer and a very physical type of prayer called prostrations. These prayers are done five times a day, at set strict times, with the individual facing Mecca. The prayers are performed at dawn, noon, afternoon, evening, and night: the names are according to the prayer times: Fajr (dawn), Dhuhr (noon), ʿAṣr (afternoon), Maghrib (evening), and ʿIshāʾ (night). The Fajr prayer is performed before sunrise, Dhuhr is performed in the midday after the sun has surpassed its highest point, Asr is the evening prayer before sunset, Maghrib is the evening prayer after sunset and Isha is the night prayer. All of these prayers are recited while facing in the direction of the Kaaba in Mecca and form an important aspect of the Muslim Ummah. Muslims must wash before prayer; this washing is called wudu ("purification"). The prayer is accompanied by a series of set positions including; bowing with hands on knees, standing, prostrating and sitting in a special position (not on the heels, nor on the buttocks). At every change in position, "God is great" is said and it is a fixed tradition that has to be recited in each posture. A Muslim may perform their prayer anywhere, such as in offices, universities, and fields. However, the mosque is the preferable place for prayers because the mosque allows for fellowship. These prayers may also be observed individually if one is not able to go. The prayers are not required for women during their periods, prepubescent children and those with intellectual and physical disabilities inhibiting prayer. Those who are sick and unable to assume the positions of prayer are still required to pray, although they may pray in bed and even lying down. When traveling, one may observe the afternoon prayers following one another: also the sunset and late evening prayers can be combined too.

Third Pillar: Zakat (Almsgiving)
The Third Pillar of Islam is Zakāt, or alms giving or charity. Zakat means purification which indicates that a payment makes the rest of one's wealth legally and religiously pure. By following this pillar, Muslims have to deduct certain amount of their wealth to support the Islamic community — usually about 2.5% of their wealth. This practice is not found in the Quran but rather in the hadith. The tax is used to take good care of the holy places and mosques in the individual's specific Muslim community or to give assistance to those in need or who are impoverished. The word zakāt can be defined as purification and growth because it allows an individual to achieve balance and encourages new growth. The principle of knowing that all things belong to God is essential to purification and growth. Zakāt is obligatory for all Muslims who are able to do so. It is the personal responsibility of each Muslim to ease the economic hardship of others and to strive towards eliminating inequality. Zakāt consists of spending a portion of one's wealth for the benefit of the poor or needy, such as debtors or travelers. A Muslim may also donate more as an act of voluntary charity (sadaqah), rather than to achieve additional divine reward. Also, Muslims are required to give back to the poor, specifically through financial support, on the streets in addition to the Zakāt. Zakāt shows how the Islam faith impacts the financial situation of a believer, drawing into all aspects of life.

There are five principles that should be followed when giving the zakāt:

 * 1) The giver must declare to God his intention to give the zakāt.
 * 2) The zakāt must be paid on the day that it is due.
 * 3) After the offering, the payer must not exaggerate on spending his money more than usual means.
 * 4) Payment must be in kind. This means if one is wealthy then he or she needs to pay a portion of their income. If a person does not have much money, then they should compensate for it in different ways, such as good deeds and good behavior toward others.
 * 5) The zakāt must be distributed in the community from which it was taken. '''

Fourth Pillar: Sawm (Fasting)
The Fourth Pillar of Islam is Sawm, or fasting. Fasting takes place during the daylight hours in Ramadan, which is the holy month in the Islamic calendar. Using a lunar calendar means the month of Ramadan shifts 11 days earlier each year. Sawm is directly mentioned in the Quran: "eat and drink until the whiteness of the day becomes distinct from the blackness of the night at dawn, then complete the fast till night…". The fast occurs from dawn to sunset each day, during which time believers are expected to prohibit themselves from any food, drink, sexual intercourse, or smoking. However after sunset and before dawn, individuals can participate in any of the actions previously stated as they desire. The reason for fasting during Ramadan is to remind Muslims that all individuals are similarly needy upon the assistance of God and that there are less lucky individuals who need their assistance. Ramadan is a period of reflection when Muslims are called upon to recharge their faith, increment their charity, and make apology. In the Quran, the month of Ramadan was first revealed to Muhammad. Ramadan fasting ends with the "Id-ul-Fitr" (Festival of the Breaking of the Fast), which lasts for three days; of the first day of this festival, there is a meeting at the mosque for prayer celebration and each family head gives money for alms. Three types of fasting (Siyam) are recognized by the Quran: ritual fasting, fasting as compensation for repentance (both from Quran 2), and ascetic fasting (from )

Ritual fasting is an obligatory act during the month of Ramadan. Muslims must abstain from food and drink from dawn to dusk during this month, and are to be especially mindful of other sins. Fasting is necessary for every Muslim that has reached puberty (unless he/she suffers from a medical condition which prevents him/her from doing so).

The fast is meant to allow Muslims to seek nearness and to look for forgiveness from God, to express their gratitude to and dependence on him, atone for their past sins, and to remind them of the needy. During Ramadan, Muslims are also expected to put more effort into following the teachings of Islam by refraining from violence, anger, envy, greed, lust, profane language, gossip and to try to get along with fellow Muslims better. In addition, all obscene and irreligious sights and sounds are to be avoided.

Fasting during Ramadan is obligatory, but exceptions are made for several groups for whom it would be very dangerous and excessively problematic. These include pre-pubescent children, those with a medical condition such as diabetes, elderly people, and pregnant or breastfeeding women. Observing fasts is not permitted for menstruating women. Other individuals for whom it is considered acceptable not to fast are those who are ill or traveling. Missed fasts usually must be made up for soon afterward, although the exact requirements vary according to circumstance.

Fifth Pillar: Hajj (Pilgrimage)
The final Pillar of Islam is the Hajj, or pilgrimage. During one's life, a Muslim is required to make the pilgrimage to Mecca during the 12th month of the lunar calendar. This ritual consists of making journey to Mecca wearing only 2 white sheets so all of the pilgrims are identical and there is no class distinction among them. Amid the hajj, every single Muslim man dresses alike in a straightforward fabric, again to emphasize their uniformity. Ladies wear a less complex type of their ordinary dress. Pilgrims put the white sheets on when they enter the sanctuary area of Mecca and enter a state of "ihram" or purity. After a Muslim makes the trip to Mecca, he/she is known as a hajj/hajja (one who made the pilgrimage to Mecca). The main rituals of the Hajj include walking seven times around the Kaaba termed Tawaf, touching the Black Stone termed Istilam, traveling seven times between Mount Safa and Mount Marwah termed Sa'yee, and symbolically stoning the Devil in Mina termed Ramee. When at Mecca, the pilgrims go to the Ka’aba in the mosque and walk around it in a circle. They then pray together in official ceremonies, and then they go out to perform the "standing ceremony" to remember the Farewell Sermon of Muhammad on the Arafat. On the return trip, pilgrims stop in Mina, where they throw 7 stones at stone pillars that represent Satan as to express their hatred for Shaitan (Satan). They then return to Mecca for final ceremonies by circumambulating the Ka’aba seven times and then leave Mecca to journey back home. Inability to make the Hajj, whether because of physical strength, economic conditions, or other reasons, excuses the duty of Hajj. The Quran specifically says that only those capable of making the pilgrimage are required to do so. The reason for this journey is to follow in the footsteps of Muhammad, hoping to gain enlightenment as Muhammad did when he was in the presence of God. The pilgrimage of the Hajj is in the Quran.

The pilgrim, or the haji, is honoured in the Muslim community. Islamic teachers say that the Hajj should be an expression of devotion to God, not a means to gain social standing. The believer should be self-aware and examine their intentions in performing the pilgrimage. This should lead to constant striving for self-improvement. A pilgrimage made at any time other than the Hajj season is called an Umrah, and while not mandatory is strongly recommended.

Twelvers
Twelver Shia Islam has five Usul al-Din and ten Furu al-Din, i.e., the Shia Islamic beliefs and practices. The Twelver Shia Islam Usul al-Din, equivalent to a Shia Five Pillars, are all beliefs considered foundational to Islam, and thus classified a bit differently from those listed above. They are:

 * 1) Tawhid (monotheism: belief in the oneness of God)
 * 2) Adl (divine justice: belief in God's justice)
 * 3) Nubuwwah (prophethood)
 * 4) Imamah (succession to Muhammad)
 * 5) Mi'ad (the day of judgment and the resurrection)

In addition to these five pillars, there are ten practices that Shia Muslims must perform, called the Ancillaries of the Faith (Arabic: furūʿ al-dīn).

 * 1) Salah: 5 daily prayers
 * 2) Sawm: Fasting Ramadan
 * 3) Zakat: Almsgiving, similar to Sunni Islam, it applies to money, cattle, silver, gold, dates, raisins, wheat, and barley.
 * 4) Khums: An annual taxation of one-fifth (20%) of the gains that a year has been passed on without using. Khums is paid to the Imams; indirectly to poor and needy people.
 * 5) Hajj: Pilgrimage to Mecca
 * 6) Jihad: Striving for the cause of God
 * 7) Enjoining good
 * 8) Forbidding wrong
 * 9) Tawalla: Expressing love towards good.
 * 10) Tabarra: Expressing disassociation and hatred towards evil.

Ismailis
Isma'ilis have their own pillars, which are as follows:

 * Walayah "Guardianship" denotes love and devotion to God, the prophets, and the Ismaili Imams and their representatives
 * Tawhid, "Oneness of God".
 * Salah: Unlike Sunni and Twelver Muslims, Nizari Ismailis reason that it is up to the current imām to designate the style and form of prayer.
 * Zakat: with the exception of the Druze, all Ismaili madhhabs have practices resembling that of Sunni and Twelvers, with the addition of the characteristic Shia khums.
 * Sawm: Nizaris and Musta'lis believe in both a metaphorical and literal meaning of fasting.
 * Hajj: For Ismailis, this means visiting the imām or his representative and that this is the greatest and most spiritual of all pilgrimages. The Mustaali maintain also the practice of going to Mecca. The Druze interpret this completely metaphorically as "fleeing from devils and oppressors" and rarely go to Mecca.
 * Jihad "Struggle": "the Greater Struggle" and "the Lesser Struggle".

History of the Pillars
One of the greatest assumptions about Islamic history is that the Five Pillars were already set and in place at the time of Muhammad's death in 632 CE. However, most changes to these Islamic rituals came from small differences among minority Muslim groups. The major beliefs of the Pillars were already in place, taking the shape of the life and beliefs of Muhammad. The Five Pillars are alluded to in the Quran, and some are even specifically stated in the Quran, like the Hajj to Mecca. However, the difference in practice of these traditions are accepted in Islam of the Five Pillars, but this does not mean they have all existed since the life of Muhammad. The evidence of differences shows pillars have not always been consistent to what they are today, so it has taken many years for the Pillars to get to their current and classic form.

title: Five Pillars of Islam


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Talk:Fat

Removal Request
Please remove the second picture that shows composition of saturated/unsaturated fats. Overall article tries to be accurate, while the picture demonstrates 'pizza with cheese' under meats section... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.252.195.193 (talk • contribs) 07:24, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

Cite error
The following refs are no longer is use, but are still in the reflist: "leib1990x" "moza2004"

Could someone comment them out or remove them?

Thanks 89.241.33.89 (talk) 16:38, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

✅. Zefr (talk) 17:43, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you 89.241.33.89 (talk) 18:22, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Fat