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Talk:Cosmological argument

Hume's counter-arguments
Could they do with their own section? They are commonly used as an objection to cosmological arguments from what I've read. I'm talking about things like his assertion that a posteriori reasoning alone allows us to deduce cause and effect relationships, and that an effect can be conceived to exist in the mind without a cause.--Phil of rel (talk) 12:23, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Revert for new section "Cosmological argument and infinite regress"
Today I added the section "Cosmological argument and infinite regress", which was promptly reverted by User:William M. Connolley with the justification that "pleaase don't dump in text from other pages". Please let me know if you find this line of thought convincing and whether there are other objections to the material in question. Phlsph7 (talk) 09:49, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * First of all, I would like to point out that the material added is not a one-to-one copy from the original article. The material was rewritten in various ways, some passages were left out and others were newly added. I'm not sure whether the editor responsible for this revert was aware of this since the revert took place only minutes after adding the material without much time to get familiar with it.
 * Second, I think there is no guideline against using material from one article in another, see Copying within Wikipedia.

 * There's just too much text and mild rephrasing doesn't get round the problem. It's also too much on IR, which is clearly you pet, and not too relevant in detail here William M. Connolley (talk) 14:58, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * From what I can discern, you advance two arguments against the material:
 * (1) It is similar to material appearing in another article.
 * (2) It is not relevant enough.
 * I have already answered (1) in my last post. If you have something to add to this argument then please do so.
 * As for (2), I've added many sources on the relation between the cosmological argument and the infinite regress. For example, from the reference "Huemer": "The Cosmological Argument (concerning the Regress of Causes): This argument claims that because an infinite regress of causes is impossible, the universe must have a first cause, that is, something that was not itself caused by anything but that caused everything else." The SEP article on the cosmological argument talks about the infinite regress in various sections, including the lead. You can also have a look at this article. I think these reliable sources establish the relevance. Phlsph7 (talk) 15:45, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

 * I don't think the similarity to another article carries much weight, but since you seem to think so: for this section I get 28% content match on https://www.prepostseo.com/plagiarism-comparison-search and 21% on https://www.duplichecker.com/comparison . Phlsph7 (talk) 16:09, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

 * If you feel that a certain passage is not relevant than please cite it here so we can assess its relevancy. Phlsph7 (talk) 16:29, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

Proposed page move: 'Cosmological argument' to 'Cosmological arguments'
I'd like to propose to move this page to 'Cosmological arguments' since it deals with multiple comsological arguments. The literature I've looked at makes a distinction between cosmological arguments that use things like causal finitism vs the principle of sufficient reason. Wouldn't it be more academic (and more consistent with wikipedia's style) to label this page 'Cosmological arguments'?--Phil of rel (talk) 17:38, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Your reasoning makes sense, but I just had a look: both the Encyclopedia Britannica and the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy call their article "Cosmological argument". The reason may be that, according to the Stanford article, "The cosmological argument is less a particular argument than an argument type". Phlsph7 (talk) 17:46, 29 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Good point, I had forgotten that there are common features underlying all cosmological arguments. I suppose that it would be technically incorrect and probably inconsistent with Wiki policy to rename the page. I withdraw the proposal.--Phil of rel (talk) 17:54, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

"Uncaused causer" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Uncaused causer and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 18:43, 4 January 2023 (UTC)

The William Lane Craig "inifinty is impossible" is nonsense
The large majority of mathematicians agree that infinity is real and yet there's no rebuttal to this very amateurish and naïve line of argumentation. Surely someone has a citation of any serious mathematician that concludes that "infinity" exists and is real, at which point this line of argument false apart completely. Instead it stands unquestioned and without criticism as if it was a serious argument. Arcade222 (talk) 23:51, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

 * वास्तव मै ब्रह्मांड नाम कि कोई चीज हाय ही नहीं इसेबहारी दुनिया द्वारा प्रोग्राम किया गया है
 * और आगे की बात में तब बताऊंगा जब मुझे 27.61.109.31 (talk) 08:12, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cosmological argument


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Cranberry

Cranberries are a group of evergreen dwarf shrubs or trailing vines in the subgenus Oxycoccus of the genus Vaccinium. In Britain, cranberry may refer to the native species Vaccinium oxycoccos, while in North America, cranberry may refer to Vaccinium macrocarpon. Vaccinium oxycoccos is cultivated in central and northern Europe, while Vaccinium macrocarpon is cultivated throughout the northern United States, Canada and Chile. In some methods of classification, Oxycoccus is regarded as a genus in its own right. Cranberries can be found in acidic bogs throughout the cooler regions of the Northern Hemisphere.

Cranberries are low, creeping shrubs or vines up to 2 m long and 5 to 20 cm in height; they have slender, wiry stems that are not thickly woody and have small evergreen leaves. The flowers are dark pink, with very distinct reflexed petals, leaving the style and stamens fully exposed and pointing forward. They are pollinated by bees. The fruit is a berry that is larger than the leaves of the plant; it is initially light green, turning red when ripe. It is edible, but with an acidic taste that usually overwhelms its sweetness.

In 2020, the United States, Canada, and Chile accounted for 97% of the world production of cranberries. Most cranberries are processed into products such as juice, sauce, jam, and sweetened dried cranberries, with the remainder sold fresh to consumers. Cranberry sauce is a traditional accompaniment to turkey at Christmas and Thanksgiving dinners in the United States and Canada, and at Christmas dinner in the United Kingdom.

Species and description
Cranberries are related to bilberries, blueberries, and huckleberries, all in Vaccinium subgenus Vaccinium. These differ in having bell-shaped flowers, petals that are not reflexed, and woodier stems, forming taller shrubs. There are 4–5 species of cranberry, classified by subgenus:

Etymology
The name cranberry derives from the Middle Low German kraanbere (English translation, craneberry), first named as cranberry in English by the missionary John Eliot in 1647. Around 1694, German and Dutch colonists in New England used the word, cranberry, to represent the expanding flower, stem, calyx, and petals resembling the neck, head, and bill of a crane. The traditional English name for the plant more common in Europe, Vaccinium oxycoccos, fenberry, originated from plants with small red berries found growing in fen (marsh) lands of England.

History

In North America, the Narragansett people of the Algonquian nation in the regions of New England appeared to be using cranberries in pemmican for food and for dye. Calling the red berries, sasemineash, the Narragansett people may have introduced cranberries to colonists in Massachusetts. In 1550, James White Norwood made reference to Native Americans using cranberries, and it was the first reference to American cranberries up until this point. In James Rosier's book The Land of Virginia there is an account of Europeans coming ashore and being met with Native Americans bearing bark cups full of cranberries. In Plymouth, Massachusetts, there is a 1633 account of the husband of Mary Ring auctioning her cranberry-dyed petticoat for 16 shillings. In 1643, Roger Williams's book A Key into the Language of America described cranberries, referring to them as "bearberries" because bears ate them. In 1648, preacher John Elliott was quoted in Thomas Shepard's book Clear Sunshine of the Gospel with an account of the difficulties the Pilgrims were having in using the Indians to harvest cranberries as they preferred to hunt and fish. In 1663, the Pilgrim cookbook appears with a recipe for cranberry sauce. In 1667, New Englanders sent to King Charles ten barrels of cranberries, three barrels of codfish and some Indian corn as a means of appeasement for his anger over their local coining of the pine tree shilling minted by John Hull. In 1669, Captain Richard Cobb had a banquet in his house (to celebrate both his marriage to Mary Gorham and his election to the Convention of Assistance), serving wild turkey with sauce made from wild cranberries. In the 1672 book New England Rarities Discovered author John Josselyn described cranberries, writing:

"Sauce for the Pilgrims, cranberry or bearberry, is a small trayling [sic] plant that grows in salt marshes that are overgrown with moss. The berries are of a pale yellow color, afterwards red, as big as a cherry, some perfectly round, others oval, all of them hollow with sower astringent taste; they are ripe in August and September. They are excellent against the Scurvy. They are also good to allay the fervor of hoof diseases. The Indians and English use them mush, boyling them with sugar for sauce to eat with their meat; and it is a delicate sauce, especially with roasted mutton. Some make tarts with them as with gooseberries."

The Compleat Cook's Guide, published in 1683, made reference to cranberry juice. In 1703, cranberries were served at the Harvard University commencement dinner. In 1787, James Madison wrote Thomas Jefferson in France for background information on constitutional government to use at the Constitutional Convention. Jefferson sent back a number of books on the subject and in return asked for a gift of apples, pecans and cranberries. William Aiton, a Scottish botanist, included an entry for the cranberry in volume II of his 1789 work Hortus Kewensis. He notes that Vaccinium macrocarpon (American cranberry) was cultivated by James Gordon in 1760. In 1796, cranberries were served at the first celebration of the landing of the Pilgrims, and Amelia Simmons (an American orphan) wrote a book entitled American Cookery which contained a recipe for cranberry tarts.

American Revolutionary War veteran Henry Hall first cultivated cranberries in the Cape Cod town of Dennis around 1816. In the 1820s, Hall was shipping cranberries to New York City and Boston from which shipments were also sent to Europe. In 1843, Eli Howes planted his own crop of cranberries on Cape Cod, using the "Howes" variety. In 1847, Cyrus Cahoon planted a crop of "Early Black" variety near Pleasant Lake, Harwich, Massachusetts.

By 1900, 21500 acre were under cultivation in the New England region. In 2021, the total output of cranberries harvested in the United States was 790 e6lb, with Wisconsin as the largest state producer (59% of total), followed by Massachusetts and Oregon.

Geography and bog method

Historically, cranberry beds were constructed in wetlands. Today's cranberry beds are constructed in upland areas with a shallow water table. The topsoil is scraped off to form dykes around the bed perimeter. Clean sand is hauled in and spread to a depth of 10 to 20 cm. The surface is laser leveled flat to provide even drainage. Beds are frequently drained with socked tile in addition to the perimeter ditch. In addition to making it possible to hold water, the dykes allow equipment to service the beds without driving on the vines. Irrigation equipment is installed in the bed to provide irrigation for vine growth and for spring and autumn frost protection.

A common misconception about cranberry production is that the beds remain flooded throughout the year. During the growing season cranberry beds are not flooded, but are irrigated regularly to maintain soil moisture. Beds are flooded in the autumn to facilitate harvest and again during the winter to protect against low temperatures. In cold climates like Wisconsin, New England, and eastern Canada, the winter flood typically freezes into ice, while in warmer climates the water remains liquid. When ice forms on the beds, trucks can be driven onto the ice to spread a thin layer of sand to control pests and rejuvenate the vines. Sanding is done every three to five years.

Propagation
Cranberry vines are propagated by moving vines from an established bed. The vines are spread on the surface of the sand of the new bed and pushed into the sand with a blunt disk. The vines are watered frequently during the first few weeks until roots form and new shoots grow. Beds are given frequent, light application of nitrogen fertilizer during the first year. The cost of renovating cranberry beds is estimated to be between 30000 and 50000 $/acre.

Ripening and harvest
Cranberries are harvested in the fall when the fruit takes on its distinctive deep red color, and most ideally after the first frost. Berries that receive sun turn a deep red when fully ripe, while those that do not fully mature are a pale pink or white color. This is usually in September through the first part of November. To harvest cranberries, the beds are flooded with 15 to 20 cm of water above the vines. A harvester is driven through the beds to remove the fruit from the vines. For the past 50 years, water reel type harvesters have been used. Harvested cranberries float in the water and can be corralled into a corner of the bed and conveyed or pumped from the bed. From the farm, cranberries are taken to receiving stations where they are cleaned, sorted, and stored prior to packaging or processing. While cranberries are harvested when they take on their deep red color, they can also be harvested beforehand when they are still white, which is how white cranberry juice is made. Yields are lower on beds harvested early and the early flooding tends to damage vines, but not severely. Vines can also be trained through dry picking to help avoid damage in subsequent harvests.

Although most cranberries are wet-picked as described above, 5–10% of the US crop is still dry-picked. This entails higher labor costs and lower yield, but dry-picked berries are less bruised and can be sold as fresh fruit instead of having to be immediately frozen or processed. Originally performed with two-handed comb scoops, dry picking is today accomplished by motorized, walk-behind harvesters which must be small enough to traverse beds without damaging the vines.

Cranberries for fresh market are stored in shallow bins or boxes with perforated or slatted bottoms, which deter decay by allowing air to circulate. Because harvest occurs in late autumn, cranberries for fresh market are frequently stored in thick walled barns without mechanical refrigeration. Temperatures are regulated by opening and closing vents in the barn as needed. Cranberries destined for processing are usually frozen in bulk containers shortly after arriving at a receiving station.

Diseases
Diseases of cranberry include:
 * Cranberry fruit rot
 * Cranberry root rot
 * Cranberry falseblossom disease, caused by a phytoplasma that is vectored by the blunt nosed leafhopper (Limotettix vaccinii)

Production
In 2022, world production of cranberry was 582,924 tonnes, with the United States and Canada together accounting for 99% of the total. Wisconsin (59% of US production) and Quebec (60% of Canadian production) are two of the largest producers of cranberries in the two countries. Cranberries are also a major commercial crop in Massachusetts, New Jersey, Oregon, and Washington, as well as in the Canadian province of British Columbia (33% of Canadian production).

Products
As fresh cranberries are hard, sour, and bitter, about 95% of cranberries are processed and used to make cranberry juice and sauce. They are also sold dried and sweetened. Cranberry juice is usually sweetened or blended with other fruit juices to reduce its natural tartness. At four teaspoons of sugar per 100 grams (one teaspoon per ounce), cranberry juice cocktail is more highly sweetened than even soda drinks that have been linked to obesity.

Usually cranberries as fruit are cooked into a compote or jelly, known as cranberry sauce. Such preparations are traditionally served with roast turkey, as a staple of Thanksgiving (both in Canada and in the United States) as well as English dinners. The berry is also used in baking (muffins, scones, cakes and breads). In baking it is often combined with orange or orange zest. Less commonly, cranberries are used to add tartness to savory dishes such as soups and stews.

Fresh cranberries can be frozen at home, and will keep up to nine months; they can be used directly in recipes without thawing.

There are several alcoholic cocktails, including the Cosmopolitan, that include cranberry juice.

Nutrition
Raw cranberries are 87% water, 12% carbohydrates, and contain negligible protein and fat (table). In a 100 gram reference amount, raw cranberries supply 46 calories and moderate levels of vitamin C, dietary fiber, and the essential dietary mineral manganese, each with more than 10% of its Daily Value. Other micronutrients have low content (table).

Dried cranberries are commonly processed with up to 10 times their natural sugar content. The drying process also eliminates vitamin C content.

Urinary tract infections
A 2023 Cochrane systematic review of 50 studies concluded there is evidence that consuming cranberry products (such as juice or capsules) is effective for reducing the risk of urinary tract infections (UTI) in women with recurrent UTIs, in children, and in people susceptible to UTIs following clinical interventions; there was little evidence of effect in elderly people, those with urination disorders or pregnant women.

When the quality of meta-analyses on the efficacy of consuming cranberry products for preventing or treating UTIs is examined with the weaker evidence that is available, large variation and uncertainty of effects are seen, resulting from inconsistencies of clinical research design and inadequate numbers of subjects. In 2014, the European Food Safety Authority reviewed the evidence for one brand of cranberry extract and concluded that a cause and effect relationship had not been established between cranberry consumption and reduced risk of UTIs.

A 2022 review of international urology guidelines on UTI found that most clinical organizations felt the evidence for use of cranberry products to inhibit UTIs was conflicting, inconvincing or weak.

Phytochemicals
Raw cranberries, cranberry juice and cranberry extracts are a source of polyphenols – including proanthocyanidins, flavonols and quercetin. These phytochemical compounds are being studied in vivo and in vitro for possible effects on the cardiovascular system, immune system and cancer. However, there is no confirmation from human studies that consuming cranberry polyphenols provides anti-cancer, immune, or cardiovascular benefits. Potential is limited by poor absorption and rapid excretion.

Cranberry juice contains a high molecular weight non-dializable material that is under research for its potential to affect formation of plaque by Streptococcus mutans pathogens that cause tooth decay. Cranberry juice components are also being studied for possible effects on kidney stone formation.

Extract quality
Problems may arise with the lack of validation for quantifying of A-type proanthocyanidins (PAC) extracted from cranberries. For instance, PAC extract quality and content can be performed using different methods including the European Pharmacopoeia method, liquid chromatography–mass spectrometry, or a modified 4-dimethylaminocinnamaldehyde colorimetric method. Variations in extract analysis can lead to difficulties in assessing the quality of PAC extracts from different cranberry starting material, such as by regional origin, ripeness at time of harvest and post-harvest processing. Assessments show that quality varies greatly from one commercial PAC extract product to another.

Possible safety concerns
The anticoagulant effects of warfarin may be increased by consuming cranberry juice, resulting in adverse effects such as increased incidence of bleeding and bruising. Other safety concerns from consuming large quantities of cranberry juice or using cranberry supplements include potential for nausea, and increasing stomach inflammation, sugar intake or kidney stone formation.

United States
Cranberry sales in the United States have traditionally been associated with holidays of Thanksgiving and Christmas. In the U.S., large-scale cranberry cultivation has been developed as opposed to other countries. American cranberry growers have a long history of cooperative marketing. As early as 1904, John Gaynor, a Wisconsin grower, and A.U. Chaney, a fruit broker from Des Moines, Iowa, organized Wisconsin growers into a cooperative called the Wisconsin Cranberry Sales Company to receive a uniform price from buyers. Growers in New Jersey and Massachusetts were also organized into cooperatives, creating the National Fruit Exchange that marketed fruit under the Eatmor brand. The success of cooperative marketing almost led to its failure. With consistent and high prices, area and production doubled between 1903 and 1917 and prices fell.

With surplus cranberries and changing American households some enterprising growers began canning cranberries that were below-grade for fresh market. Competition between canners was fierce because profits were thin. The Ocean Spray cooperative was established in 1930 through a merger of three primary processing companies: Ocean Spray Preserving company, Makepeace Preserving Co, and Cranberry Products Co. The new company was called Cranberry Canners, Inc. and used the Ocean Spray label on their products. Since the new company represented over 90% of the market, it would have been illegal under American antitrust laws had attorney John Quarles not found an exemption for agricultural cooperatives. , about 65% of the North American industry belongs to the Ocean Spray cooperative.

In 1958, Morris April Brothers—who produced Eatmor brand cranberry sauce in Tuckahoe, New Jersey—brought an action against Ocean Spray for violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act and won $200,000 in real damages plus triple damages, just in time for the Great Cranberry Scare: on 9 November 1959, Secretary of the United States Department of Health, Education, and Welfare Arthur S. Flemming announced that some of the 1959 cranberry crop was tainted with traces of the herbicide aminotriazole. The market for cranberries collapsed and growers lost millions of dollars. However, the scare taught the industry that they could not be completely dependent on the holiday market for their products; they had to find year-round markets for their fruit. They also had to be exceedingly careful about their use of pesticides. After the aminotriazole scare, Ocean Spray reorganized and spent substantial sums on product development. New products such as cranberry-apple juice blends were introduced, followed by other juice blends.

Prices and production increased steadily during the 1980s and 1990s. Prices peaked at about $65.00 per barrel (0.65 $/lb)—a cranberry barrel equals 100 lb—in 1996 then fell to $18.00 per barrel (0.18 $/lb) in 2001. The cause for the precipitous drop was classic oversupply. Production had outpaced consumption leading to substantial inventory in freezers or as concentrate.

Cranberry handlers (processors) include Ocean Spray, Cliffstar Corporation, Northland Cranberries Inc. (Sun Northland LLC), Clement Pappas & Co., and Decas Cranberry Products as well as a number of small handlers and processors.

Cranberry Marketing Committee
The Cranberry Marketing Committee is an organization that was established in 1962 as a Federal Marketing Order to ensure a stable, orderly supply of good quality product. The order has been renewed and modified slightly over the years. The market order has been invoked during six crop years: 1962 (12%), 1963 (5%), 1970 (10%), 1971 (12%), 2000 (15%), and 2001 (35%). Even though supply still exceeds demand, there is little will to invoke the Federal Marketing Order out of the realization that any pullback in supply by U.S. growers would easily be filled by Canadian production.

The Cranberry Marketing Committee, based in Wareham, Massachusetts, represents more than 1,100 cranberry growers and 60 cranberry handlers across Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New Jersey, Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota, Oregon, Washington and New York (Long Island). The authority for the actions taken by the Cranberry Marketing Committee is provided in Chapter IX, Title 7, Code of Federal Regulations which is called the Federal Cranberry Marketing Order. The Order is part of the Agricultural Marketing Agreement Act of 1937, identifying cranberries as a commodity good that can be regulated by Congress. The Federal Cranberry Marketing Order has been altered over the years to expand the Cranberry Marketing Committee's ability to develop projects in the United States and around the world. The Cranberry Marketing Committee currently runs promotional programs in the United States, China, India, Mexico, Pan-Europe, and South Korea.

International trade
, the European Union was the largest importer of American cranberries, followed individually by Canada, China, Mexico, and South Korea. From 2013 to 2017, U.S. cranberry exports to China grew exponentially, making China the second largest country importer, reaching $36 million in cranberry products. The China–United States trade war resulted in many Chinese businesses cutting off ties with their U.S. cranberry suppliers.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Cranberry


text:
Talk:Cranberry

Explanation please
Under Cultivation - Geography and bog method it states "Beds are frequently drained with socked tile...". As I can't find any explanation of this in Wikipedia, could someone add a few words to explain what socked tile is, please.

I have a similar query for the reference to the "water reel type harvesters" in the Harvesting section.

82.31.154.124 (talk) 16:07, 29 September 2015 (UTC)Moriarty

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Urinary tract infections
Dear Community, Since the content of the section „Urinary tract infections“ is not up to date I would like suggest some improvement. Please include the results found by Kevin C Maki, Kerrie L Kaspar,Christina Khoo,Linda H Derrig, Arianne L Schild, and Kalpana Gupta “Consumption of a cranberry juice beverage lowered the number of clinical urinary tract infection episodes in women with a recent history” Am J Clin Nutr 2016;103:1434–42. Unfortunately I am not familiar with editing the article and therefore I would be very happy if someone else might add this additional note + reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.250.193.33 (talk) 20:26, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

 * That is a limited clinical study paid for and conducted by Ocean Spray, so is WP:COI. References 16 and 17 have taken a wider view of all clinical studies to date on UTI, and concluded there is no effect. This is what the article states and should remain. --Zefr (talk) 21:00, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

 * Reference 16 (EFSA review of CranMax, in case numbering changes in future) was a not-enough-evidence finding on the proposed health claim for a specific dietary supplement, and should be identified as such rather than used as a generalized no-benefits reference. Ref 17 (Cochrane) is a high quality review reference of multiple types of cranberry products, and as of April 2017, is still the most recent meta-analysis. David notMD (talk) 23:27, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

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Combining two History subsection in single History section
I noticed two places talking about history, first in Entymology, second in Marketing. I am moving content to a new History section, after Entymology.User-duck (talk) 18:39, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

"Mossberry" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Mossberry. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Steel1943 (talk) 18:36, 29 April 2020 (UTC)

Citation-needed tags and better sources needed
I've been asked to discuss these edits here on the talk page. Fair enough; let's get some discussion going on how these edits are objectionable. I applied citation-needed tags to large swathes of text that assert claims without even hinting at any source for them, let alone a valid source. And speaking of valid sources, I don't think copy-pasting text directly from a commercial entity's own website and then citing that website counts as such -- hence why I removed the "citation". 173.180.13.37 (talk) 21:32, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Thanks for starting the discussion. I flagged your edit because there are marketing sources readily available, such as this and this, among others. Rather than tagging so much content, it would be more constructive to find sources and rewrite the section. Zefr (talk) 01:36, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

History section
I’m very suspicious of the sentence on James White Norwood in 1550 referring to Native American use of cranberries. Footnote 13 is on something entirely different. Unless some can at at least show there was a JWN in the 16th century, I suggest deleting this sentence.

Dan Milton — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.66.58.49 (talk) 02:59, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cranberry


text:
Talk:Crystal

Untitled
I don't care if YOU, PERSONALLY, think they read like a cut-and-paste job, they aren't. --corvus13

I thought so too, and you should care. Our goal here is to create a good encyclopedia, not to coddle your sensitivities. If an article by anyone looks copyrighted, it's everyone's responsibility here to say so, and it's the author's responsibility to clear it up. It's not about personalities--it's about content. You've cleared up that this stuff is written by you, and that's good. So the copyright issue is settled; no problem. Now there's the issue of exactly what culture this "folklore" is from. That needs to be spelled out here too. We're not singling you out for criticism here--everyone criticizes everyone else here, from PhD's to dropouts. That's the process, and it works pretty well. --LDC

Amorphous solids can be considered liquids that flow but very slowly

Yes and no. The stories about the old glass windows being thicker at the bottom than at the top are probably either not true or are misinterpreted (if you have a sheet of glass that's thicker on one end, you'd install it with the thick end down, wouldn't you?)

But here's the thing...any solid, amorphous or crystalline, that is kept under a sustained stress, is going to flow "very slowly". The reason for this is that any material has an equlibrium vacancy concentration, and vacancy diffusion under an applied stress will cause creep. In fact, this is true even at absolute zero, because of the zero-point energy. Sure, it might take trillions of years, but the equations predict it.

There are two fundamental differences between a liquid and a solid. One is that the constituents of a liquid have a rotational mode of motion. The other is the enthalpy change when a liquid solidifies. I know you don't get the enthalpy release in a glass transition. Any statistical mechanics guys out there know of any evidence that a glass has rotational modes? --MaterialsScientist

 * This has nothing to do with how the glass is installed in the window. Rather, it has to do with window glass that has been in situ for a long time (I'm not talking on the order of fifty years, either; more on the order of the six- and seven-hundred-year-old glass one finds in old British castles and churches; but definitely not the "trillions of years" referred to above). The glass is slightly thicker at the bottom in such windows, indicating a (very slow) flow downwards. Also, some glass bottles of Roman era have been found which have been squashed rather than broken. Glass is simply an extremely slow-flowing fluid.
 * Here at the University of Queensland, there is a physics experiment that has been taking place for some 80 years, involving a container of pitch. This so-called pitch drop experiment demonstrates this phenomenon of "liquid solids"; the container of pitch has a small hole in the bottom of it which allows the pitch to drip through it. In the 80 years the experiment has been running, I believe the pitch has dripped just seven times.thefamouseccles 01:40 13 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Not sure about the description of liquid crystals -- can anyone verify ? I was under the impression that a liquid crystal was a material which undergoes an ordering transition upon the application of an electrical field -- i.e. switches between crystal and amorphous easily with a external stimulus. -- Olof

Proposed merger
Oppose Crystal is a major topic in chemistry & geology, deserving a good article on structure, lattice types & lattice energies, geological aspects ("grain" etc), crystals in popular culture/jewellery, liquid crystals, etc. There should be a short section on crystallography that says, "Main article: Crystallography". Likewise, there should be a section called "Formation of crystals" which should say, "Main article: Crystallisation". Crystallisation is a very interesting and important process in itself, worthy of a full-length article. You can talk about how it occurs, trapping of impurities, seeding, how to grow crystals, supersaturation, etc. You could probably write two separate FACs with very little overlap of content. Walkerma 17:13, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Oppose I agree Wowlookitsjoe 02:17, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

No merge - Walkerma said it all - Vsmith 03:04, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Oppose - Totally agree with Walkerma.
 * Same here, I agree with him too.11:08, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Oppose - I am preparing a revision of Crystallization, and it has little to do with Crystal: it will be rather a chemical engineer's POV. UbUb 15:31, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Dont lie bcs we all know Painite is the rarest gem RABITZ 123NAME (talk) 23:51, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
 * and BTW, I am considering that POV - there is a third article to write, that of Crystallization (physics) which is not the garden I plow. UbUb

Add Smithsonian Education link?
Hello! I am a writer for the Smithsonian's Center for Education, which publishes Smithsonian in Your Classroom, a magazine for teachers. An online version of an issue titled "Minerals, Crystals, and Gems: Stepping Stones to Inquiry" is available at this address:

http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/educators/lesson_plans/minerals/index.html

If you think the audience would find this valuable, I wish to invite you to include it as an external link. We would be most grateful.

Thank you so much for your attention.

Out of Fashion?
"Inspired by the growing numbers and varieties of quasiperiodic crystals, the International Union of Crystallography has redefined the term crystal to mean ``any solid having an essentially discrete diffraction diagram'', thereby shifting the essential attribute of crystallinity from position space to Fourier space. Within the family of crystals one distinguishes between periodic crystals, which are periodic on the atomic scale, and aperiodic crystals which are not. This broader definition reflects our current understanding that microscopic periodicity is a sufficient but not a necessary condition for crystallinity."

New sub-category needed
A new reference about crystal should also include the word as slang for methamphetamine. Methamphetamine? That drug is a crystal of a specific substance that does not shed light on the general solid-state concept. Put it in crystal (disambiguation). That is the place for slang terms, this article is about the technical term 24.184.234.24 (talk) 00:17, 8 October 2009 (UTC)LeucineZipper

Need Authorization
My website provides information about Crystals, How to Care for Crystals, and Metaphysical Properties of Crystals with an A to Z Guide of Crystals. There was some question as to whether my website is considered Spam, or whether it would be admissible. Please review my site and let me know whether I can add my link to the 'links' section of the Crystal Page. My intentions are only to provide additional information about the subject of Crystals for those that are interested. Thank you for your consideration, Marin My Link: http://www.reikiessentials.com/crystals.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by ReikiEssentials (talk • contribs)

Crystals & Mythology
Not to beat a dead horse...but the last line in this Wiki Page is: 'Crystals also figure or figured prominently as healing tools in a number of mythologies [1].'

By clicking on the '[1]' link you are taken to a Mythology website. I guess I don't see the different between my site www.ReikiEssentials/crystals.html and that person's site...aside from the fact that my site offers tons more information on crystals. Why is it that my link keeps being knocked off - when there is a similar link *with less info than I provide* on this page...Please advise. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ReikiEssentials (talk • contribs)

 * The above two messages were posted by a user who is promoting a commercial website. WP:Spam applies, and the link will be reverted and the user blocked if he/she continues. Vsmith 22:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Vicky, You blocked me so I thought I'd leave a message here. Thank you for your suggestion -- the Crystal Power. I guess I'm wondering if you can explain to me -- I saw the links on this page. The first one takes you to a site about a book. Isn't that considered Spam because as you assume with me, can we assume that the intention of the author of that link is to sell his book? The second link is similar in that you can buy the book or subscribe to the site for more information. How is a link ever not considered spam? Is it not spam if an outsider not related to a site adds it to a category?

I guess I'm wondering - if the information is not on WIKI, why is it considered Spam to add a legitimate link that offers more info on a subject than is posted on WIKI? Thanks, Marin —Preceding unsigned comment added by ReikiEssentials (talk • contribs) 14:05, 15 September 2006

 * Don't know who Vicky is, but... Yes, you will find existing links to sites that are likely spam links - some of which have been in place for a while, as I find 'em I remove 'em - but there's only one of me.
 * Re: the links referred to above, the first is to another wiki site (references a book, doesn't seem to be promoting it) - the second is to a most informative page on a commercial site. The second, if added by the site owners or someone connected could well have been spam - dunno w/out doing an exstensive history search.
 * If the info is not on wiki, then write the article or add content to an existing article based on reliable sourced information (not your own site per WP:OR problems). Simply adding external links to info is not what we're about. Writing an encyclopedia is the mission.
 * Vsmith 14:40, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia should really add more information on what a crystal is catagorized as that way stsudents could get more valuable research. Kittycat 02:17, 4 May 2007 (UTC)Dogwhisper_vet

Reference to Charmstone and New Age
I added these references not because I believe in crystals but because the word "crystals" is used often by people conversationally (and also is referenced in various Wikipedia articles) to refer to the belief system itself. I would suggest leaving it because the word 'crystals' has these 2 meanings and even though this is a scientific article, you can't just remove the meaning from the word. Thanks, laurap414 23:57, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * This is all covered in the Charmstone article, or if it's not, it can be added there, and there's a disambig page already to direct the reader to that usage of crystal, so I reverted your edits as being inappropriate for this particular article on crystals. KP Botany 00:07, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Alright but the disambig is only there because I added it. I have gone into several articles referencing crystals and changed the reference to crystals to avoid confusion.  Thanks, laurap414 00:26, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, good, crystal is used for too much to not have a disambig on this page, thanks. KP Botany 00:39, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Removal of "cite" tag for metallic polycrystals
Some one cited the fact that most metals encountered in daily life are polycrystalline. What the statement means is that metals have a grain structure. You can find this under the linked article for polycrystals, which the author was careful to link. The problem with this request for a cite is that the grain structure of metals is just about the first and most fundamental fact of metallurgy. It is like requesting a cite on the letter a if someone starts to recite the alphabet. All naturally occurring metals have a grain structure and you don't need a special note for that. True it needs to be mentioned somewhere but that is taken care of (with special note) under polycrystal. Thanks.Dave (talk) 12:43, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Bob's Rock Shop
There is a link here to a site published by Bob's Rock Shop. I pondered whether this is to be considered primarily advertising. The owners however are genuine scientists using Bob's Rock Shop to publish scientific educational material under a separate heading. This is a tough call. Some advertising in this case is inadvertent. I decided to leave it in because the scientific material itself does not talk about Bob's Rock Shop. If this were a site from some university the university would be mentioned so in this case whether the publisher is profit or non-profit is only incidental. The topic is certainly open to discussion. Thanks.Dave (talk) 13:10, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Similarly Krassmann's site contains links leading to a catalogue of his collection, which he will sell or trade. But, the scientific part is kept apart, so if I am leaving in Bob it seems fair to leave in Thomas. To separate advertising from source material is sometimes difficult and I think I have been pretty good about excising blatent sales material - the prices of papers, Amazon or other bookseller sites, porn sites who will sell you heaven knows what, authors peddling their books, businesses using their community's Wikipedia article, what have you. But if a scientist happens to use a private site to publish scientific material - well, it's on the line I think.Dave (talk) 14:45, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

wow...nice guys —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.231.184.240 (talk) 14:41, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

The article needs more attention from an expert in the field of crystallography!
The table in # 4 Crystalline rocks has been fixed - the |} end tag was missing. ;) Also, I agree that this very important article should totally undergo a major refinement and a big increase in content and thus in length as well. Currently, the featured information isn't sufficient, e.g. more photos and chemical diagrams should be added. Ve4ernik (talk) 23:21, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

I fully agree with the above comment - if I get a chance I'll try to work through it (I'm not a wikipedia geek though as you can probably tell from this post). There is a lot of confusion about definitions (what a crystal is), and the scientific content is also confused/wrong in a number of places - for example the commensurate vs incommensurate section is plain wrong, incommensurate crystals are periodic, whereas the article states not. 94.194.93.222 (talk) 18:10, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

This person is not an expert, does the unsigned even know what an incommensurate crystal is? The paragraph about 'aperiodic crystals' should be supplemented or even replaced, though, with a link to the entry on quasicrystals. Was the table in properties, though? That is wrong (see below)

conductor
Who said a non-polar crystal is a conductor? (sic) For instance of an |elemental crystals such as sulfur is generally dielectric. A non-metal the Wikipedia article says is a "poor conductor of heat and electricity compared to metals" If you mean crystals composed of metal atoms it takes a separate entry. Additionally some metals, like tungsten, tend to be hard .24.184.234.24 (talk[[Special:Contributions/24.184.234.24|24.184.234.24 (talk24.184.234.24 (talk) 01:29, 6 September 2009 (UTC)LeucineZIpper) 01:27, 6 September 2009 (UTC)LeucineZIpper]]) 01:21, 6 September 2009 (UTC)LeucineZipper 24.184.234.24 (talk) 03:12, 8 October 2009 (UTC)LeucineZipper

Largest crystal caves in the world
The largest crystal cave`s can be more than 11 meters (36 feet) that may not seem large but the caves are realy masive geodes (holes in the middle of most crystals).People naturaly want to explore these strange enviroments but there are limatations the humidaty in these crystal caves are to high for humans and most other animals to survive for long. the humidaty levels to be presice are round about 100% and the tempreture is round about 65 degrease celsius (150 degrease farenhight).the crystals themself feed on the humidaty to grow verry slowly they would disintagreat without it they are gypsum crystals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gamma45 (talk • contribs) 19:48, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Citations needed
I did a grammar and punctuation cleanup, primarily on the Occurence in nature section. I'm not an expert on the subject. Large sections of the article have no or minimal inline citations, so I added the refimprove tag. ~ Kimelea (talk) 17:12, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Citation style
§'''This page needs to have MLA citation (I'm Desperate) WHY WIKI WHY! WHY U NO MLA CITATION HELP FOR PAGE!:_( –––– — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.198.24.185 (talk) 20:37, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you have a specific content question? There is no requirement for a humanities reference style in Wikipedia articles. That said, this article doesn't have any style ... it just sorta evolved. As noted at the top it needs additional citations as much unsourced material remains from early versions of the page. Sorry 'bout that and hope you survive your desperation... Vsmith (talk) 21:00, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

Defects
This article is for the layman, I know; but I think it would be worthwhile to add a bit of depth to the understanding of how common "perfect" crystals are (both in the natural world, and in the world of semiconductor manufacture.) Neither this article nor the article on Crystal Defects addresses the issue of the frequency of defects (parts per million, thousand?, billion?, etc.) I've seen literature on the entropy of crystals (suggesting that at equilibrium a crystal will have a certain amount of disorder (defects)), but I don't recall the source. Anyway, I came to this article because I'm reading The Feynman Lectures (1963, originally) and in them (Vol. 1, Chap. 1) he states that one position in a crystal is dependent on the location of an atom which is millions of atoms away from it. That is, he is saying that crystals are ordered arrays for millions of units in all directions. And I am wondering if this is commonly true? Is it true that most crystals are defect free over millions of sequential lattice units? I would be surprised at that, since I'd expect more randomness, but hey what do I know about this?(almost nothing). Putting it another way, how common are such 'perfect' crystals? (Is it even possible to manufacture (or find) a crystal which is that defect free? (ie. has a defect rate of less than one per 1E6 x 1E6 x 1E6 unit lengths?))Abitslow (talk) 17:37, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

 * It varies so much from crystal to crystal that it's difficult to say much in general. I think you're misreading Feynman's statement: You can have some substitutional defects, interstitials, vacancies, etc., without destroying the long-distance order of a crystal. For example, the few atoms around a vacancy will be out-of-place but it won't appreciably shift the faraway silicon atoms relative to each other. (If I'm not mistaken.)

 * Probably the world's highest-quality crystals are the silicon crystals made for integrated circuits (Czochralski process or Float-zone silicon), which is why they're used for the Avogadro project. I don't know the defect rates off-hand, but if somebody looked it up, I think that would make an interesting piece of trivia to add to the article... :-D --Steve (talk) 14:10, 31 March 2015 (UTC)

Lattice basis discussion
No where in this article does it explain a crystal basis which is pretty fundamental. A basis is a set of atoms that correspond to a single lattice point. For example a simple cubic crystal of all one type of atom would have just one atom per lattice point, so the basis is just one atom. If a different kind of atom is added at the center of the cubes, the lattice does not change and remains simple cubic but the basis does change as there would be a two atom basis with two atoms for every lattice point. Quicknick5k (talk) 17:10, 24 February 2016 (UTC)quicknick5k

 * The section "Crystal structure (microscopic)" starts with the four words
 * Main article: Crystal structure
 * And there are two more links to crystal structure in that section just in case anyone misses it. I think it's an important topic but much more related to crystal structure than to crystals in general. And indeed, it is mentioned in crystal structure (and in Bravais lattice). I don't think it's necessary to mention it here in this article. Just my opinion :-)  --Steve (talk) 13:15, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I agree Steve.

Semi-protected edit request on 19 December 2017
From the paragraph below, I suggest removing the word "pseudoscientific" as it is not relevant to a practice of alternative therapy. Also suggest removing reference to "Wiccan beliefs". Wiccan use of crystals are a small part of crystal usage so should not be highlighted. This article is mainly about the science of crystals, so not relevant. Also remove reference to "spellwork" as again, it is not how most people use crystals.

Crystals are often used in pseudoscientific practices such as crystal therapy, and, along with gemstones, are sometimes associated with spellwork in Wiccan beliefs and related religious movements.[6][7][8] Dianej1111 (talk) 13:57, 19 December 2017 (UTC)
 * ❌. Our article on crystal therapy is called crystal healing, the term "pseudoscientific" is used there, and it's reliably sourced. We're aware that this can be contentious or hurtful but that doesn't make it any less true. Crystals' minor status in Wicca appears to be covered by the word "sometimes." As for the use of "spellwork," please see the third source here. This page doesn't use that word but it still verifies this.  City O f  Silver  21:42, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 January 2018
Please add the following to the 'See also' section: 2606:A000:4C0C:E200:780E:B4BE:53CA:B7DE (talk) 22:50, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Time crystal
 * Yes check.svg Done Gulumeemee (talk) 03:13, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 March 2019
Crystalline structures are another form of solids — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.14.221.39 (talk) 23:01, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

 * I don't understand what you're proposing; can you phrase your request as "In section Z, replace X with Y" or something like that? --Steve (talk) 15:16, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 February 2020
2600:1700:1EC0:11E0:7025:1AF4:C04F:8089 (talk) 21:46, 20 February 2020 (UTC) i wish to edit some of the information on this page since it is incorrect
 * You can suggest edits here on this talk page on the form "Please change X to Y" citing reliable sources.

– Thjarkur (talk) 21:51, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Life science
Igneous rocks •Igneous rocks were the first rocks to form in the matle and Crust •when molten magma from the Mantle cools,it becomes igneous rock Leah Bodiba (talk) 10:19, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

Science
Chemical change — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2409:4051:2E1C:3DE8:0:0:8248:3E04 (talk) 03:22, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Crystal


text:
Code coverage

In software engineering, code coverage, also called test coverage, is a percentage measure of the degree to which the source code of a program is executed when a particular test suite is run. A program with high code coverage has more of its source code executed during testing, which suggests it has a lower chance of containing undetected software bugs compared to a program with low code coverage. Many different metrics can be used to calculate test coverage. Some of the most basic are the percentage of program subroutines and the percentage of program statements called during execution of the test suite.

Code coverage was among the first methods invented for systematic software testing. The first published reference was by Miller and Maloney in Communications of the ACM, in 1963.

Coverage criteria
To measure what percentage of code has been executed by a test suite, one or more coverage criteria are used. These are usually defined as rules or requirements, which a test suite must satisfy.

Basic coverage criteria
There are a number of coverage criteria, but the main ones are:
 * Function coverage – has each function (or subroutine) in the program been called?
 * Statement coverage – has each statement in the program been executed?
 * Edge coverage – has every edge in the control-flow graph been executed?
 * Branch coverage – has each branch (also called the DD-path) of each control structure (such as in if and case statements) been executed? For example, given an if statement, have both the true and false branches been executed? (This is a subset of edge coverage.)
 * Condition coverage – has each Boolean sub-expression evaluated both to true and false? (Also called predicate coverage.)

For example, consider the following C function:

Assume this function is a part of some bigger program and this program was run with some test suite.
 * Function coverage will be satisfied if, during this execution, the function  was called at least once.
 * Statement coverage for this function will be satisfied if it was called for example as, because in this case, every line in the function would be executed—including.
 * Branch coverage will be satisfied by tests calling  and   because, in the first case, both   conditions are met and   is executed, while in the second case, the first condition, , is not satisfied, which prevents the execution of.
 * Condition coverage will be satisfied with tests that call,  , and  . These are necessary because in the first case,   is evaluated to  , while in the second, it is evaluated to  . At the same time, the first case makes    , the second case does not evaluate   (because of the lazy-evaluation of the boolean operator), the third case makes it.

In programming languages that do not perform short-circuit evaluation, condition coverage does not necessarily imply branch coverage. For example, consider the following Pascal code fragment: Condition coverage can be satisfied by two tests: However, this set of tests does not satisfy branch coverage since neither case will meet the  condition.

Fault injection may be necessary to ensure that all conditions and branches of exception-handling code have adequate coverage during testing.

Modified condition/decision coverage
A combination of function coverage and branch coverage is sometimes also called decision coverage. This criterion requires that every point of entry and exit in the program has been invoked at least once, and every decision in the program has taken on all possible outcomes at least once. In this context, the decision is a boolean expression comprising conditions and zero or more boolean operators. This definition is not the same as branch coverage, however, the term decision coverage is sometimes used as a synonym for it.

Condition/decision coverage requires that both decision and condition coverage be satisfied. However, for safety-critical applications (such as avionics software) it is often required that modified condition/decision coverage (MC/DC) be satisfied. This criterion extends condition/decision criteria with requirements that each condition should affect the decision outcome independently.

For example, consider the following code: The condition/decision criteria will be satisfied by the following set of tests:

However, the above tests set will not satisfy modified condition/decision coverage, since in the first test, the value of 'b' and in the second test the value of 'c' would not influence the output. So, the following test set is needed to satisfy MC/DC:

Multiple condition coverage
This criterion requires that all combinations of conditions inside each decision are tested. For example, the code fragment from the previous section will require eight tests:

Parameter value coverage
Parameter value coverage (PVC) requires that in a method taking parameters, all the common values for such parameters be considered. The idea is that all common possible values for a parameter are tested. For example, common values for a string are: 1) null, 2) empty, 3) whitespace (space, tabs, newline), 4) valid string, 5) invalid string, 6) single-byte string, 7) double-byte string. It may also be appropriate to use very long strings. Failure to test each possible parameter value may result in a bug. Testing only one of these could result in 100% code coverage as each line is covered, but as only one of seven options are tested, there is only 14.2% PVC.

Other coverage criteria
There are further coverage criteria, which are used less often:
 * Linear Code Sequence and Jump (LCSAJ) coverage a.k.a. JJ-Path coverage – has every LCSAJ/JJ-path been executed?
 * Path coverage – Has every possible route through a given part of the code been executed?
 * Entry/exit coverage – Has every possible call and return of the function been executed?
 * Loop coverage – Has every possible loop been executed zero times, once, and more than once?
 * State coverage – Has each state in a finite-state machine been reached and explored?
 * Data-flow coverage – Has each variable definition and its usage been reached and explored?

Safety-critical or dependable applications are often required to demonstrate 100% of some form of test coverage. For example, the ECSS-E-ST-40C standard demands 100% statement and decision coverage for two out of four different criticality levels; for the other ones, target coverage values are up to negotiation between supplier and customer. However, setting specific target values - and, in particular, 100% - has been criticized by practitioners for various reasons (cf. ) Martin Fowler writes: "I would be suspicious of anything like 100% - it would smell of someone writing tests to make the coverage numbers happy, but not thinking about what they are doing".

Some of the coverage criteria above are connected. For instance, path coverage implies decision, statement and entry/exit coverage. Decision coverage implies statement coverage, because every statement is part of a branch.

Full path coverage, of the type described above, is usually impractical or impossible. Any module with a succession of $$n$$ decisions in it can have up to $$2^n$$ paths within it; loop constructs can result in an infinite number of paths. Many paths may also be infeasible, in that there is no input to the program under test that can cause that particular path to be executed. However, a general-purpose algorithm for identifying infeasible paths has been proven to be impossible (such an algorithm could be used to solve the halting problem). Basis path testing is for instance a method of achieving complete branch coverage without achieving complete path coverage.

Methods for practical path coverage testing instead attempt to identify classes of code paths that differ only in the number of loop executions, and to achieve "basis path" coverage the tester must cover all the path classes.

In practice
The target software is built with special options or libraries and run under a controlled environment, to map every executed function to the function points in the source code. This allows testing parts of the target software that are rarely or never accessed under normal conditions, and helps reassure that the most important conditions (function points) have been tested. The resulting output is then analyzed to see what areas of code have not been exercised and the tests are updated to include these areas as necessary. Combined with other test coverage methods, the aim is to develop a rigorous, yet manageable, set of regression tests.

In implementing test coverage policies within a software development environment, one must consider the following:

 * What are coverage requirements for the end product certification and if so what level of test coverage is required? The typical level of rigor progression is as follows: Statement, Branch/Decision, Modified Condition/Decision Coverage (MC/DC), LCSAJ (Linear Code Sequence and Jump)
 * Will coverage be measured against tests that verify requirements levied on the system under test (DO-178B)?
 * Is the object code generated directly traceable to source code statements? Certain certifications, (i.e. DO-178B Level A) require coverage at the assembly level if this is not the case: "Then, additional verification should be performed on the object code to establish the correctness of such generated code sequences" (DO-178B) para-6.4.4.2.

Software authors can look at test coverage results to devise additional tests and input or configuration sets to increase the coverage over vital functions. Two common forms of test coverage are statement (or line) coverage and branch (or edge) coverage. Line coverage reports on the execution footprint of testing in terms of which lines of code were executed to complete the test. Edge coverage reports which branches or code decision points were executed to complete the test. They both report a coverage metric, measured as a percentage. The meaning of this depends on what form(s) of coverage have been used, as 67% branch coverage is more comprehensive than 67% statement coverage.

Generally, test coverage tools incur computation and logging in addition to the actual program thereby slowing down the application, so typically this analysis is not done in production. As one might expect, there are classes of software that cannot be feasibly subjected to these coverage tests, though a degree of coverage mapping can be approximated through analysis rather than direct testing.

There are also some sorts of defects which are affected by such tools. In particular, some race conditions or similar real time sensitive operations can be masked when run under test environments; though conversely, some of these defects may become easier to find as a result of the additional overhead of the testing code.

Most professional software developers use C1 and C2 coverage. C1 stands for statement coverage and C2 for branch or condition coverage. With a combination of C1 and C2, it is possible to cover most statements in a code base. Statement coverage would also cover function coverage with entry and exit, loop, path, state flow, control flow and data flow coverage. With these methods, it is possible to achieve nearly 100% code coverage in most software projects.

Usage in industry
Test coverage is one consideration in the safety certification of avionics equipment. The guidelines by which avionics gear is certified by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is documented in DO-178B and DO-178C.

Test coverage is also a requirement in part 6 of the automotive safety standard ISO 26262 Road Vehicles - Functional Safety.

title: Code coverage


text:
Talk:Cold Chisel

Unsorted text
What's a 'bogan'? --MichaelTinkler

An austalian derogatory term roughly equivalent to the american term "redneck" - MMGB

Manning, obviously you disagree with the use of the term bogan to describe Cold Chisel's fans, perhaps to the term in general. While I'm happy to concede that perhaps it should not be used in this article, I feel that some mention of their outer-suburban male fan base should be made. Do you agree that this is an accurate description of the majority of their strongest fans, and if so, how best to explain this? --Robert Merkel
 * oh I like that! 'outer suburban male'!
 * Michael, if you're not Australian, perhaps an explanation of "outer suburban" is in order. Unlike the US, Australia's six capital cities are largely contiguous entities, and once outside their outer limits by American (and even more by European) standards settlement thins out very quickly and to levels which are very sparse.  Self-contained American-style suburbs located outside major centres are not that common.  Instead, Australian "suburbs" are more akin to neighbourhoods in a continuous, if largely low-density urban sprawl.  Within these metropolitan areas a rough division can be drawn into "inner suburban" and "outer suburban".  The inner suburbs have small houses, and townhouses, and factories which are continuously either being turned into warehouse apartments or knocked down for new townhouse or apartment blocks.  The students and pensioners who used to live in the area are being crowded out by young professionals.  Coffee shops and restaurants are booming with the property prices (though Starbucks are thankfully rare).  Arthouse cinema, nightclubs, bars with live original bands, good restaurants, recycled clothing shops, and so on, dominate the streetscape.  Outside this inner ring are the outer suburbs, with shopping malls (called shopping centres here), larger detached houses, massive "entertainment complexes" filled with slot machines, freeways, multiplexes, and so on.  Much of the wealth generated by the economic growth of the past two decades has gone to the inner suburban dwellers, and the cultural divide between the two groups has grown.  The political divide caused by this crosses party lines, with the inner-city "elite" collectively supporting free trade, multiculturalism, reconciliation with Australia's indigenous peoples, the shedding of remaining ties to the British monarchy, and so on, and the outer suburbs and rural areas opposing them.  The present Prime Minister, John Howard, has effectively exploited these issues to win votes amongst working-class outer-suburbanites at the expense of alienating many in his own party.  I hope some of this rant makes sense, but anyway :)

Looks like a decent article to me. Could stand alone as outer suburban male (a.k.a. bogan), maybe under Melbourne culture ??

 * to me, too. So is 'bogan' acronymic, or personal, or a nonsense word?  And, by the way, I lived in Atlanta, Georgia for 15 years.  Sounds familiar enough to me! --MichaelTinkler
 * As far as I know, it's not an acronym, but it's a well-known term (it's used, for instance, in a song called "Nobody Like A Bogan" by a group called Area 7"). It may be local though  - I think Sydneysiders call the equivalent "Westies".  The point WRT suburbs I was trying to make was that when I visited the US (TX, CA, NY, and NJ) was that "suburbs" seemed to be used in a slightly different sense to here.  By the way, I'll try and prepare an entry on bogans and we'll have a rerun of the white trash debate amongst the Aussies :)--Robert Merkel

 * The term Bogan is perjorative and should not be used in any Wikipedia article, neither should Kike, Yid, Wop, Wetback or Spic. However I can see the validity of an article about the word itself, as it does have sociological significance, although we are GUARANTEED to get a debate similar to the White Trash episode. Its etymology is uncertain. - MMGB
 * Yes, bogan is perjorative (though it is a cultural and social-economic term more akin to "yuppie", "chattering classes" or "chardonnay socialist" than a racial one like the ones you have used above). I already agreed that it probably shouldn't be used in this article.  However, I think Chisel's icon status to Australian-born working class males, particularly those  born in the 1960's and 1970's, is worth mentioning in an article on Cold Chisel, in the same way that Britney Spears has inspired the "tweenies".  If stated in that way, it's not being demeaning to Cold Chisel or their fans, is it? --Robert Merkel

 * Oh absolutely, I can see that it's worth making that particular point. MMGB

Oh yes, that's much better. - MMGB

WaveAid
Someone made a wrote that the band played at WaveAid, but I was there and I have the shirt to prove they didn't, so I took it out. rakkar 23:49, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Yeah, Cold Chisel did not play at WaveAid. Maybe whoever that was got them mixed up with Midnight Oil, who did reform to play it. BrianFG 04:19, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I've since found out that Chisel did play at a tsunami benefit, but it wasn't WaveAid. BrianFG 03:48, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Last Wave of Summer
I just noticed that in The Revival section it says they got back together in 1999 for The Last Wave of Summer but the discography says it was released in 1998. Maybe someone should do something about that? I don't have the relevant information so I can't. --DK 23:16, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality
I question the neutrality of the article and am tagging it as such Naysie 01:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Why? --Mdhowe 08:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Possibly the use of positive adjectives like "superb" in the body of the article. I'll do a quick rewrite without the 'emotive' language. BrianFG 04:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Had to add something about this link--Mutley 12:56, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Website incorrect
The URL for the official website has been posted incorrectly as www.coldchisel.com. It is www.coldchisel.com.au —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.26.72 (talk) 03:33, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Erm, fixed! --BrianFG 08:11, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanx :)  love that band, they're awesome!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.59.26.72 (talk) 01:41, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

The Last Stand
" The Sydney shows formed the basis of the film The Last Stand, the biggest-selling concert film of any Australian band."

I find it very unlikely that 'The Last Stand' has sold more copies than, just for example, AC/DC's live concert films. Is there a source for this statement? If not then I will remove it...

 * Mmmm. I wonder if they mean the theatrical release? It could well have been the biggest at one time, but I'd agree with removal without a decent recent source. Doctorhawkes (talk) 08:28, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

Infobox image
What could be a suitable image for the infobox? Maybe the logo or a group picture of the members? 124.180.228.131 (talk) 05:30, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Regarding "musical style and lyrical themes"
"Influences from blues and early rock n' roll was broadly apparent, fostered by the love of those styles by Moss, Barnes and Walker and Small and Prestwich contributed strong pop sensibilities."

Okay...would just like to point out that this is a massive run-on sentence, so it's quite hard to tell what is connected to what. Would someone who knows more about this band mind put a period somewhere in this sentence to make it less confusing? I'm assuming it's supposed to be "...Moss, Barnes and Walker. Small and Prestwich contributed strong pop sensibilites" but I'm not positive about it. 2602:306:37BD:6750:E561:3C74:A6B9:2FDB (talk) 05:35, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 12:00, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Cold Chisel


text:
Caitlin Clarke

Caitlin Clarke (born Katherine Anne Clarke, May 3, 1952 – September 9, 2004) was an American theater and film actress best known for her roles as Valerian in the 1981 fantasy film Dragonslayer and Charlotte Cardoza in the 1998–1999 Broadway musical Titanic.

Biography
Clarke was born in Pittsburgh, the oldest of five sisters, the youngest of whom is Victoria Clarke. Her family moved to Sewickley when she was ten.

Clarke received her B.A. in theater arts from Mount Holyoke College in 1974 and her M.F.A. from the Yale School of Drama in 1978. During her final year at Yale, Clarke performed with the Yale Repertory Theater in such plays as Tales from the Vienna Woods.

After appearing in three Broadway plays in 1985, Clarke moved to Los Angeles for several years as a film and television actress. She appeared in the 1986 film Crocodile Dundee as Simone, a friendly prostitute. She returned to theater in the early 1990s, and to Broadway as Charlotte Cardoza in Titanic.

Clarke was diagnosed with ovarian cancer in 2000. She returned to Pittsburgh to teach theater at the University of Pittsburgh and at the Pittsburgh Musical Theater's Rauh Conservatory as well as to perform in Pittsburgh theatre until her death on September 9, 2004.

Broadway

 * 1983 – Teaneck Tanzi: The Venus Flytrap
 * 1985 – The Marriage of Figaro
 * 1985 – Arms and the Man
 * 1985 – Strange Interlude
 * 1998 – Titanic: A New Musical

Off-Broadway

 * 1979 – Othello
 * 1981 – No End of Blame
 * 1983 – Summer
 * 1984 – Total Eclipse
 * 1984 – Quartermaine's Terms
 * 1984 – Thin Ice
 * 1994 – Three Birds Alighting On A Field
 * 1994 – Unexpected Tenderness

Regional

 * 1978 – Tales from the Vienna Woods (New Haven)
 * 1979 – The Winter's Tale (Washington)
 * 1980 – Bal (Chicago)
 * 1981 – Plenty (Chicago)
 * 1982 – Summer Vacation Madness (Minneapolis)
 * 1984 – As You Like It (San Diego)
 * 1984 – Not Quite Jerusalem (New Haven)
 * 1989 – Our Country's Good (Los Angeles)
 * 1991 – The Queen And The Rebels (Baltimore)
 * 1996 – Mrs. Warren's Profession (New Haven)
 * 1997 – Indiscretions (Dallas)
 * 1997 – The Glass Menagerie (Portland, Maine)
 * 1999 – Griller (Baltimore)
 * 2000 – Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf (Rochester, NY)
 * 2002 – The Gigli Concert (Pittsburgh)
 * 2002 – Aristocrats (Pittsburgh)

Film

 * 1981 Dragonslayer as Valerian
 * 1986 Crocodile Dundee as Simone
 * 1988 Kenny (a.k.a. The Kid Brother) as Sharon
 * 1989 The Big Picture as Sharon
 * 1989 Penn & Teller Get Killed as Carlotta / Officer McNamara
 * 1994 Blown Away as Officer Rita
 * 1997 Cost of Living as Annie
 * 1997 A Cure For Serpents (Short) as Mother
 * 1999 Joe the King as Pat
 * 2001 Never Again as Allison (final film role)

Television
Series: Northern Exposure ("Only You"), The Equalizer, Once a Hero, Moonlighting, Sex And The City, Law & Order ("Menace", "Juvenile", "Stiff"), Matlock ("The Witness").

Movies: Mayflower Madam (1986), Love, Lies and Murder (1991), The Stepford Husbands (1996).

title: Caitlin Clarke