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Fantasy film

Fantasy films are films that belong to the fantasy genre with fantastic themes, usually magic, supernatural events, mythology, folklore, or exotic fantasy worlds. The genre is considered a form of speculative fiction alongside science fiction films and horror films, although the genres do overlap. Fantasy films often have an element of magic, myth, wonder, escapism, and the extraordinary.

Subgenres
Several sub-categories of fantasy films can be identified, although the delineations between these subgenres, much as in fantasy literature, are somewhat fluid.

The most common fantasy subgenres depicted in movies are high fantasy and sword and sorcery. Both categories typically employ quasi-medieval settings, wizards, magical creatures and other elements commonly associated with fantasy stories.

High fantasy films tend to feature a more richly developed fantasy world, and may also be more character-oriented or thematically complex. Often, they feature a hero of humble origins and a clear distinction between good and evil set against each other in an epic struggle. Many scholars cite J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings novel as the prototypical modern example of high fantasy in literature, and the recent Peter Jackson film adaptation of the books is a good example of the high fantasy subgenre on the silver screen.

Sword and sorcery movies tend to be more plot-driven than high fantasy and focus heavily on action sequences, often pitting a physically powerful but unsophisticated warrior against an evil wizard or other supernaturally endowed enemy. Although sword and sorcery films sometimes describe an epic battle between good and evil similar to those found in many High fantasy movies, they may alternately present the hero as having more immediate motivations, such as the need to protect a vulnerable maiden or village, or even being driven by the desire for vengeance.

The 1982 film adaptation of Robert E. Howard's Conan the Barbarian, for example, is a personal (non-epic) story concerning the hero's quest for revenge and his efforts to thwart a single megalomaniac—while saving a beautiful princess in the process. Some critics refer to such films by the term Sword and Sandal rather than sword and sorcery, although others would maintain that the Sword and Sandal label should be reserved only for the subset of fantasy films set in ancient times on the planet Earth, and still others would broaden the term to encompass films that have no fantastic elements whatsoever. To some, the term Sword and Sandal has pejorative connotations, designating a film with a low-quality script, bad acting, and poor production values.

Another important subgenre of fantasy films that has become more popular in recent years is contemporary fantasy. Such films feature magical effects or supernatural occurrences happening in the "real" world of today.

Films with live action and animation such as Disney's Mary Poppins, Pete's Dragon, Enchanted, and the Robert Zemeckis film Who Framed Roger Rabbit are also fantasy films although are more often referred to as Live action/animation hybrids (2 of those are also classified as musicals).

Fantasy films set in the afterlife, called Bangsian fantasy, are less common, although films such as the 1991 Albert Brooks comedy Defending Your Life would likely qualify. Other uncommon subgenres include historical fantasy and romantic fantasy, although 2003's Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl successfully incorporated elements of both.

As noted above, superhero movies and fairy tale films might each be considered subgenres of fantasy films, although most would classify them as altogether separate movie genres.

Fantasy movies and the film industry
As a cinematic genre, fantasy has traditionally not been regarded as highly as the related genre of science fiction film. Undoubtedly, the fact that until recently fantasy films often suffered from the "Sword and Sandal" afflictions of inferior production values, over-the-top acting, and decidedly poor special effects was a significant factor in fantasy film's low regard.

Since the early 2000s, however, the genre has gained new respectability in a way, driven principally by the successful adaptations of Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings and J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter series. Jackson's The Lord of the Rings trilogy is notable due to its ambitious scale, serious tone, and thematic complexity. These pictures achieved phenomenal commercial and critical success, and the third installment of the trilogy became the first fantasy film ever to win the Academy Award for Best Picture. The Harry Potter series has been a tremendous financial success, has achieved critical acclaim for its design, thematic sophistication and emotional depth, grittier realism and darkness, narrative complexity, and characterization, and boasts an enormous and loyal fanbase.

Following the success of these ventures, Hollywood studios have greenlighted additional big-budget productions in the genre. These have included adaptations of the first, second, and third books in C. S. Lewis' The Chronicles of Narnia and the teen novel Eragon, as well as adaptations of Susan Cooper's The Dark Is Rising, Cornelia Funke's Inkheart, Philip Pullman's The Golden Compass, Holly Black's The Spiderwick Chronicles, Nickelodeon's TV show Avatar: The Last Airbender, and the Fantasia segment (along with Johann Wolfgang von Goethe's original poem) The Sorcerer's Apprentice

Many fantasy movies starting in the 2000s, such as The Lord of the Rings films, the 1st and 3rd Narnia adaptations, and the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 7th Harry Potter adaptations have most often been released in November and December. This is in contrast to sci-fi films, which are often released during the northern hemisphere summer (June–August). All 3 of the Pirates of the Caribbean films, however, were released in July 2003, July 2006, and May 2007 respectively, and the latest releases in the Harry Potter series were released in July 2007 and July 2009. The huge commercial success of these pictures may indicate a change in Hollywood's approach to big-budget fantasy film releases.

Screenwriter and scholar Eric R. Williams identifies fantasy films as one of eleven super-genres in his screenwriters taxonomy, claiming that all feature length narrative films can be classified by these super-genres. The other 10 super-genres are action, crime, horror, romance, sci-fi, slice of life, sports, thriller, war and western.

History
Fantasy films have a history almost as old as the medium itself. However, fantasy films were relatively few and far between until the 1980s, when high-tech filmmaking techniques and increased audience interest caused the genre to flourish.

What follows are some notable Fantasy films. For a more complete list see: List of fantasy films

1900–1920s
In the era of silent film, the earliest fantasy films were those made by French film pioneer Georges Méliès from 1903. The most famous of these was 1902's A Trip to the Moon. In the Golden Age of Silent film (1918–1926) the most outstanding fantasy films were Douglas Fairbanks' The Thief of Bagdad (1924), Fritz Lang's Die Nibelungen (1924), and Destiny (1921). Other notables in the genre were F.W. Murnau's romantic ghost story Phantom, Tarzan of the Apes starring Elmo Lincoln, and D. W. Griffith's The Sorrows of Satan.

1930s
Following the advent of sound films, audiences of all ages were introduced from 1937's Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs to 1939's The Wizard of Oz. Also notable of the era, the iconic 1933 film King Kong borrows heavily from the Lost World subgenre of fantasy fiction as does such films as the 1935 adaptation of H. Rider Haggard's novel She about an African expedition that discovers an immortal queen known as Ayesha "She who must be obeyed". Frank Capra's 1937 picture Lost Horizon transported audiences to the Himalayan fantasy kingdom of Shangri-La, where the residents magically never age. Other noteworthy fantasy films of the 30s include Tarzan the Ape Man in 1932 starring Johnny Weissmuller starting a successful series of talking pictures based on the fantasy-adventure novels by Edgar Rice Burroughs and the G. W. Pabst directed The Mistress of Atlantis from 1932. 1932 saw the release of the Universal Studios monster movie The Mummy which combined horror with a romantic fantasy twist. more light-hearted and comedic affairs from the decade include films like 1934s romantic drama film Death Takes a Holiday where Fredric March plays Death who takes a human body to experience life for three days and 1937s Topper where a man is haunted by two fun-loving ghosts who try to make his life a little more exciting.

1940s
The 1940s then saw several full-color fantasy films produced by Alexander Korda, including The Thief of Bagdad (1940), a film on par with The Wizard of Oz, and Jungle Book (1942). In 1946, Jean Cocteau's classic adaptation of Beauty and the Beast won praise for its surreal elements and for transcending the boundaries of the fairy tale genre. Sinbad the Sailor (1947), starring Douglas Fairbanks Jr., has the feel of a fantasy film though it does not actually have any fantastic elements.

Several other pictures featuring supernatural encounters and aspects of Bangsian fantasy were produced in the 1940s during World War II. These include Beyond Tomorrow, The Devil and Daniel Webster, and Here Comes Mr. Jordan, all from 1941, Heaven Can Wait the musical Cabin in the Sky (1943), the comedy The Horn Blows at Midnight and romances such as The Ghost and Mrs. Muir (1947), One Touch of Venus and Portrait of Jennie, both 1948.

An astonishing anticipation of the full "sword and sorcery" genre was made in 1941 in Italy by Alessandro Blasetti. La Corona di Ferro presents the struggles of two imaginary kingdoms around the legendary Iron Crown (historically the ancient crown of Italy), with war, cruelty, betrayal, heroism, sex, magic and mysticism, a whirl of events taken from every possible fairy tale and legend source Blasetti could find. This movie is unlike anything done before; indeed, considering that it was finished fifteen years before the publication of Lord Of The Rings, its invention of a vast, national epic mythology is an act of genius. And while the storytelling is rough - due to the need to insert everything - and the resources limited, Blasetti shows how to make a little go a long way through beautifully staged and designed battle and crowd scenes.

Although it's not classified as a fantasy film, Gene Kelly's Anchors Aweigh had a fantasy sequence called "The King who Couldn't Dance" in which Gene did a song and dance number with Jerry Mouse from Tom and Jerry.

Because these movies do not feature elements common to high fantasy or sword and sorcery pictures, some modern critics do not consider them to be examples of the fantasy genre.

1950s
In the 1950s there were a few major fantasy films, including Darby O'Gill and the Little People and The 5,000 Fingers of Dr. T., the latter penned by Dr. Seuss. Jean Cocteau's Orphic Trilogy, begun in 1930 and completed in 1959, is based on Greek mythology and could be classified either as fantasy or surrealist film, depending on how the boundaries between these genres are drawn. Russian fantasy director Aleksandr Ptushko created three mythological epics from Russian fairytales, Sadko (1953), Ilya Muromets (1956), and Sampo (1959). Japanese director Kenji Mizoguchi's 1953 film Ugetsu Monogatari draws on Japanese classical ghost stories of love and betrayal.

Other notable pictures from the 1950s that feature fantastic elements and are sometimes classified as fantasy are Harvey (1950), featuring a púca of Celtic mythology; Scrooge, the 1951 adaptation of Charles Dickens' A Christmas Carol; and Ingmar Bergman's 1957 masterpiece, The Seventh Seal. Disney's 1951 animated film Alice in Wonderland is also a fantasy classic.

There were also a number of lower budget fantasies produced in the 1950s, typically based on Greek or Arabian legend. The most notable of these may be 1958's The 7th Voyage of Sinbad, featuring special effects by Ray Harryhausen and music by Bernard Herrmann.

1960s
Harryhausen worked on a series of fantasy films in the 1960s, most importantly Jason and the Argonauts (1963). Many critics have identified this film as Harryhausen's masterwork for its stop-motion animated statues, skeletons, harpies, hydra, and other mythological creatures. Other Harryhausen fantasy and science fantasy collaborations from the decade include the 1961 adaptation of Jules Verne's Mysterious Island, the critically panned One Million Years B.C. starring Raquel Welch, and The Valley of Gwangi (1969).

Capitalising on the success of the sword and sandal genre several Italian B-movies based on classical myth were made, including the Maciste series. Otherwise, the 1960s were almost entirely devoid of fantasy films. The fantasy picture 7 Faces of Dr. Lao, in which Tony Randall portrayed several characters from Greek mythology, was released in 1964. But the 1967 adaptation of the Broadway musical Camelot removed most of the fantasy elements from T. H. White's classic The Once and Future King, on which the musical had been based. The 1960s also saw a new adaption of Haggard's She in 1965 starring Ursula Andress as the immortal "She who must be obeyed" and was followed by a sequel in 1968 The Vengeance of She based loosely on the novel Ayesha: The Return of She both produced by Hammer Film Productions. The musical fantasy film Mary Poppins was released in 1964, and 1968 saw the release of Chitty Chitty Bang Bang based on a story by Ian Fleming with a script from Roald Dahl.

1970s
Fantasy elements of Arthurian legend were again featured, albeit absurdly, in 1975's Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Harryhausen also returned to the silver screen in the 1970s with two additional Sinbad fantasies, The Golden Voyage of Sinbad (1974) and Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger (1977). The animated movie Wizards (1977) had limited success at the box office but achieved status as a cult film. There was also The Noah (1975) which was never released theatrically but became a cult favorite when it was finally released on DVD in 2006. Some would consider 1977's Oh God!, starring George Burns to be a fantasy film, and Heaven Can Wait (1978) was a successful Bangsian fantasy remake of 1941's Here Comes Mr. Jordan (not 1943's Heaven Can Wait).

A few low budget "Lost World" pictures were made in the 1970s, such as 1975's The Land That Time Forgot. Otherwise, the fantasy genre was largely absent from mainstream movies in this decade, although 1971's Bedknobs and Broomsticks and Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory were two fantasy pictures in the public eye the former being predominantly from the same team who did Mary Poppins the latter again being from Roald Dahl in both script and novel.

1980s
1980s fantasy films were initially characterized by directors finding a new spin on established mythologies. Ray Harryhausen brought the monsters of Greek legends to life in Clash of the Titans while Arthurian lore returned to the screen in John Boorman's 1981 Excalibur. Films such as Ridley Scott's 1985 Legend and Terry Gilliam's 1981–1986 trilogy of fantasy epics (Time Bandits, Brazil, and The Adventures of Baron Munchausen) explored a new artist-driven style featuring surrealist imagery and thought-provoking plots. The modern sword and sorcery boom began around the same time with 1982's Conan the Barbarian followed by Krull and Fire and Ice in 1983, as well as a boom in fairy tale-like fantasy films such as The Neverending Story (1984), Ladyhawke (1985), The Princess Bride (1987), and Willow (1988).

The 1980s also started a trend in mixing modern settings and action film effects with exotic fantasy-like concepts. Big Trouble in Little China (1986), directed by John Carpenter and starring Kurt Russell, combined humor, martial arts and classic Chinese folklore in a modern Chinatown setting. Highlander, a film about immortal Scottish swordsmen, was released the same year.

Jim Henson produced two iconic fantasy films in the 80s, the solemn The Dark Crystal and the more whimsical and lofty Labyrinth. Meanwhile, Robert Zemeckis helmed Who Framed Roger Rabbit, featuring various famous cartoon characters from animation's "Golden Age," including Mickey Mouse, Minnie Mouse, Donald Duck, Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck, Droopy, Wile E. Coyote and Road Runner, Sylvester the Cat, Tweety Pie, and Jiminy Cricket, among others.

1990s
The 90s saw the Disney Renaissance in which many successful adaptations of written fantasy works were released by Disney Animation.

 * Aladdin (1992)
 * Army of Darkness (1992)
 * Beauty and the Beast (1991)
 * Bram Stoker's Dracula (1992)
 * Dragonheart (1996)
 * Edward Scissorhands (1990)
 * Fantasia 2000 (1999)
 * The Green Mile (1999)
 * Groundhog Day (1993)
 * Ghost in the Machine (1995)
 * Hercules (1997)
 * Hocus Pocus (1993)
 * Hook (1991)
 * The Indian in the Cupboard (1995)
 * Jumanji (1995)
 * Kazaam (1996)
 * Matilda (1996)
 * Meet Joe Black (1998)
 * Mulan (1998)
 * Nightbreed (1990)
 * The Prince of Egypt (1998)
 * Princess Mononoke (Mononoke Hime) (1997)
 * Toy Story (1995)
 * Toy Story 2 (1999)
 * The Wind in the Willows (Mr Toad's Wild Ride) (1996)
 * The Witches (1990)

2000s
The 2000s saw a boom in the genre. This was compounded by the success of Lord of The Rings and Harry Potter, which spurred a movement in film adaptations of fantasy literary works including The Chronicles of Narnia, Tales from Earthsea, Eragon, Inkheart, and The Golden Compass. The Star Wars prequel trilogy and Pirates of the Caribbean also saw success at the box office.

 * 13 Going on 30 (2004)
 * 17 Again (2009)
 * 300 (2006)
 * Alvin & the Chipmunks (2007)
 * Anji (2004)
 * Atlantis: The Lost Empire (2001)
 * Big Fish (2003)
 * Bridge to Terabithia (2007)
 * The Brothers Grimm (2005)
 * The Chronicles of Narnia (2005-10)
 * Coraline (2009)
 * Corpse Bride (2005)
 * Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (2000)
 * The Curious Case of Benjamin Button (2008)
 * D-War (2007)
 * Dorian Gray (2009)
 * Dungeons & Dragons (2000-12)
 * Elf (2003)
 * The Emperor's New Groove (2000)
 * Enchanted (2007)
 * Eragon (2006)
 * Fat Albert (2004)
 * The Golden Compass (2007)
 * Harry Potter (2001–11)
 * The Hexer (2001)
 * How the Grinch Stole Christmas (2000)
 * Howl's Moving Castle (2004)
 * The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus (2009)
 * Imagine That (2009)
 * Inkheart (2008)
 * The Invention of Lying (2009)
 * King Kong (2005)
 * Lady in the Water (2006)
 * Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events (2004)
 * Looney Tunes: Back in Action (2003)
 * The Lord of the Rings (2001–03)
 * The Lovely Bones (2008)
 * The Master of Disguise (2002)
 * Monsters Inc. (2001-13)
 * Nanny McPhee (2005)
 * Night Watch (2004)
 * Pan's Labyrinth (2006)
 * Peter Pan (2003)
 * Pirates of the Caribbean (2003-17)
 * Prezzemolo (2003)
 * Race to Witch Mountain (2009)
 * The Science of Sleep (2006)
 * The Secret of Kells (2009)
 * The Seeker: The Dark Is Rising (2007)
 * Shrek (2001-10)
 * Spider-Man (Raimi trilogy) (2002-07)
 * The Spiderwick Chronicles (2008)
 * Spike (2008)
 * Spirited Away (2002)
 * Stardust (2007)
 * Star Wars Episodes I-III (1999-2005)
 * Tales from Earthsea ((2006)
 * Treasure Planet (2002)
 * Twilight (2008–12)
 * Underworld (2003-16)
 * Where the Wild Things Are (2009)
 * Zathura: A Space Adventure (2005)

2010s
The early 2010s saw a continuation of the book to screen adaptation fad of the 2000s. Also prevalent in the decade were remakes of older fantasy films especially from Walt Disney Pictures.

 * Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter (2012)
 * Aladdin (2019)
 * Alice in Wonderland (2010)
 * Alice Through the Looking Glass (2016)
 * Aquaman (2018)
 * A Monster Calls'' (2016)
 * A Wrinkle in Time (2018)
 * Baahubali: The Beginning (2014)
 * Baahubali 2: The Conclusion (2017)
 * Beauty and the Beast (2017)
 * Black Panther (2018)
 * Brave (2012)
 * Christopher Robin (2018)
 * Cinderella (2015)
 * Clash of the Titans (2010) and its 2012 sequel, Wrath of the Titans
 * Conan the Barbarian (2011)
 * Crimson Peak (2015)
 * Dark Shadows (2012)
 * Doctor Strange (2016)
 * Fantastic Beasts: The Crimes of Grindelwald (2018)
 * Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them (2016)
 * Frozen (2013)
 * Frozen II (2019)
 * Godzilla: King of the Monsters (2019)
 * Goosebumps (2015)
 * Gulliver's Travels (2010)
 * Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 1 (2010)
 * Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 2 (2011)
 * Hop (2011)
 * How to Train Your Dragon (2010–19)
 * Immortals (2011)
 * Into the Woods (2014)
 * Jack the Giant Slayer (2013)
 * John Carter (2012)
 * Life of Pi (2012)
 * Maleficent (2014)
 * Maleficent: Mistress of Evil (2019)
 * Mary Poppins Returns (2018)
 * Maximum Shame (2010)
 * Midnight in Paris (2011)
 * Mirror Mirror (2012)
 * Miss Peregrine's Home for Peculiar Children (2016)
 * Oz the Great and Powerful (2013)
 * Paddington (2014)
 * Pan (2015)
 * Percy Jackson & the Olympians: Sea of Monsters (2013)
 * Percy Jackson & the Olympians: The Lightning Thief (2010)
 * Pete's Dragon (2016)
 * Peter Rabbit (2018)
 * Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time (2010)
 * Puss in Boots (2011)
 * Sardaar Ji (2015) (Punjabi)
 * Scott Pilgrim vs. the World (2010)
 * Snow White and the Huntsman (2012)
 * Song of the Sea (2014)
 * Sucker Punch (2011)
 * The Bastard Sword (2018)
 * The BFG (2016)
 * The Hobbit (2012–14)
 * The Jungle Book (2016)
 * The Kid Who Would Be King (2019)
 * The Last Airbender (2010)
 * The Lorax (2012)
 * The Muppets (2011)
 * The Nutcracker and the Four Realms (2018)
 * Trolls (2016)
 * The Shape of Water (2017)
 * The Sorcerer's Apprentice (2010)
 * Thor: Ragnarok (2017)
 * Thor: The Dark World (2013)
 * Thor (2011)
 * Toy Story 3 (2010)
 * Toy Story 4 (2019)
 * Wonder Woman (2017)
 * Your Highness (2011)

2020s
The 2020s as of 2023 have shown an increasing interest by studios to adapt games into film with Monster Hunter, Sonic the Hedgehog, The Super Mario Bros. Movie, and Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves

 * Bloodshot (2020)
 * Dolittle (2020)
 * Dragonheart: Vengeance (2020)
 * Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves (2023)
 * Encanto (2021)
 * Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore (2022)
 * Fantasy Island (2020)
 * Jiu Jitsu (2020)
 * Monster Hunter (2020)
 * Mulan (2020)
 * Nahuel and the Magic Book (2020)
 * The Old Guard (2020)
 * Onward (2020)
 * Sonic the Hedgehog (2020)
 * Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (2022)
 * Spider-Man: No Way Home (2021)
 * The Super Mario Bros. Movie (2023)
 * Trolls World Tour (2020)
 * The Witches (2020)
 * Wonder Woman 1984 (2020)
 * Wolfwalkers (2020)

title: Fantasy film


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Finite set

In mathematics, particularly set theory, a finite set is a set that has a finite number of elements. Informally, a finite set is a set which one could in principle count and finish counting. For example,

is a finite set with five elements. The number of elements of a finite set is a natural number (possibly zero) and is called the cardinality (or the cardinal number) of the set. A set that is not a finite set is called an infinite set. For example, the set of all positive integers is infinite:

Finite sets are particularly important in combinatorics, the mathematical study of counting. Many arguments involving finite sets rely on the pigeonhole principle, which states that there cannot exist an injective function from a larger finite set to a smaller finite set.

Definition and terminology
Formally, a set $$S$$ is called finite if there exists a bijection

for some natural number $$n$$ (natural numbers are defined as sets in Zermelo-Fraenkel set theory). The number $$n$$ is the set's cardinality, denoted as $$|S|$$.

If a set is finite, its elements may be written — in many ways — in a sequence:

In combinatorics, a finite set with $$n$$ elements is sometimes called an $$n$$-set and a subset with $$k$$ elements is called a $$k$$-subset. For example, the set $$\{5,6,7\}$$ is a 3-set – a finite set with three elements – and $$\{6,7\}$$ is a 2-subset of it.

Basic properties
Any proper subset of a finite set $$S$$ is finite and has fewer elements than S itself. As a consequence, there cannot exist a bijection between a finite set S and a proper subset of S. Any set with this property is called Dedekind-finite. Using the standard ZFC axioms for set theory, every Dedekind-finite set is also finite, but this implication cannot be proved in ZF (Zermelo–Fraenkel axioms without the axiom of choice) alone. The axiom of countable choice, a weak version of the axiom of choice, is sufficient to prove this equivalence.

Any injective function between two finite sets of the same cardinality is also a surjective function (a surjection). Similarly, any surjection between two finite sets of the same cardinality is also an injection.

The union of two finite sets is finite, with

In fact, by the inclusion–exclusion principle:

More generally, the union of any finite number of finite sets is finite. The Cartesian product of finite sets is also finite, with:

Similarly, the Cartesian product of finitely many finite sets is finite. A finite set with $$n$$ elements has $$2^n$$ distinct subsets. That is, the power set $$\wp(S)$$ of a finite set S is finite, with cardinality $$2^{|S|}$$.

Any subset of a finite set is finite. The set of values of a function when applied to elements of a finite set is finite.

All finite sets are countable, but not all countable sets are finite. (Some authors, however, use "countable" to mean "countably infinite", so do not consider finite sets to be countable.)

The free semilattice over a finite set is the set of its non-empty subsets, with the join operation being given by set union.

Necessary and sufficient conditions for finiteness
In Zermelo–Fraenkel set theory without the axiom of choice (ZF), the following conditions are all equivalent:

 * 1) $$S$$ is a finite set. That is, $$S$$ can be placed into a one-to-one correspondence with the set of those natural numbers less than some specific natural number.
 * 2) (Kazimierz Kuratowski) $$S$$ has all properties which can be proved by mathematical induction beginning with the empty set and adding one new element at a time.
 * 3) (Paul Stäckel) $$S$$ can be given a total ordering which is well-ordered both forwards and backwards. That is, every non-empty subset of $$S$$ has both a least and a greatest element in the subset.
 * 4) Every one-to-one function from $$\wp\bigl(\wp(S)\bigr)$$ into itself is onto. That is, the powerset of the powerset of $$S$$ is Dedekind-finite (see below).
 * 5) Every surjective function from $$\wp\bigl(\wp(S)\bigr)$$ onto itself is one-to-one.
 * 6) (Alfred Tarski) Every non-empty family of subsets of $$S$$ has a minimal element with respect to inclusion. (Equivalently, every non-empty family of subsets of $$S$$ has a maximal element with respect to inclusion.)
 * 7) $$S$$ can be well-ordered and any two well-orderings on it are order isomorphic. In other words, the well-orderings on $$S$$ have exactly one order type.

If the axiom of choice is also assumed (the axiom of countable choice is sufficient), then the following conditions are all equivalent:

 * 1) $$S$$ is a finite set.
 * 2) (Richard Dedekind) Every one-to-one function from $$S$$ into itself is onto. A set with this property is called Dedekind-finite.
 * 3) Every surjective function from $$S$$ onto itself is one-to-one.
 * 4) $$S$$ is empty or every partial ordering of $$S$$ contains a maximal element.

Other concepts of finiteness
In ZF set theory without the axiom of choice, the following concepts of finiteness for a set $$S$$ are distinct. They are arranged in strictly decreasing order of strength, i.e. if a set $$S$$ meets a criterion in the list then it meets all of the following criteria. In the absence of the axiom of choice the reverse implications are all unprovable, but if the axiom of choice is assumed then all of these concepts are equivalent. (Note that none of these definitions need the set of finite ordinal numbers to be defined first; they are all pure "set-theoretic" definitions in terms of the equality and membership relations, not involving ω.)

 * I-finite. Every non-empty set of subsets of $$S$$ has a $$\subseteq$$-maximal element. (This is equivalent to requiring the existence of a $$\subseteq$$-minimal element. It is also equivalent to the standard numerical concept of finiteness.)
 * Ia-finite. For every partition of $$S$$ into two sets, at least one of the two sets is I-finite. (A set with this property which is not I-finite is called an amorphous set. )
 * II-finite. Every non-empty $$\subseteq$$-monotone set of subsets of $$S$$ has a $$\subseteq$$-maximal element.
 * III-finite. The power set $$\wp(S)$$ is Dedekind finite.
 * IV-finite. $$S$$ is Dedekind finite.
 * V-finite. $$|S|=0$$ or $$2\cdot|S|>|S|$$.
 * VI-finite. $$|S|=0$$ or $$|S|=1$$ or $$|S|^2>|S|$$.
 * VII-finite. $$S$$ is I-finite or not well-orderable.

The forward implications (from strong to weak) are theorems within ZF. Counter-examples to the reverse implications (from weak to strong) in ZF with urelements are found using model theory.

Most of these finiteness definitions and their names are attributed to by. However, definitions I, II, III, IV and V were presented in, together with proofs (or references to proofs) for the forward implications. At that time, model theory was not sufficiently advanced to find the counter-examples.

Each of the properties I-finite thru IV-finite is a notion of smallness in the sense that any subset of a set with such a property will also have the property. This is not true for V-finite thru VII-finite because they may have countably infinite subsets.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Finite set


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Talk:First transcontinental railroad

Wiki Education assignment: The History of Immigration in the United States
— Assignment last updated by Charliewerth (talk) 13:08, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Addition to the “In Popular Culture” Section
Another Notable use of this topic in Popular Culture would be the Newest Oregon Trail Game (2021) by Gameloft released on the Apple Arcade, where the construction of this railroad is a sidequest, and you can opt to either build for Central or Union Pacific. 2600:6C64:697F:962B:8506:C7A1:F44C:C320 (talk) 15:56, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

Cite your sources!
The article has so many "citation needed" things.

if you are one of the previous authors please cite the source where you got the information.

I will try to find the source that states the information that is in the article, but is also reliabe. That railroad man (talk) 02:12, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

Total Land Grants
Total land grants do not appear to be backed up by source 51. I believe the intended source was 50. However, that source is a map of all land grants to railroads, not just to the continental railroad. I would appreciate someone else looking into this! If no one does, I will change the text to reflect my understanding that the listed grants refer to all railroads. Warr40 (talk) 08:02, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Horace Hamilton Minkler
Horace Hamilton Minkler was my second great grandfather I am John E Barkley James D Barkley's son I'm also in transportation but not the railroad side of it. I just want to thank Wikipedia for keeping America and our history alive I will continue to educate people about our history of America it's very important to me and the history of America that everything comes from transportation anything you buy in your home and or business is from transportation.. 2601:647:5E00:7940:E0A2:F927:2AEC:1472 (talk) 23:12, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Discrepancies in railroad length
Hello,

This article provides two figures for the First Transcontinental Railroad's full length. In the opening paragraph of the article, the length is claimed to be 1,911 miles (3,075 KM). But in the right-hand box where the length is re-stated again beneath the image used for the article, the length is described to be 1,912 (3,077 KM). It's a small error but a noticeable one nonetheless - and also, I'm not sure which one is correct. 153.33.89.251 (talk) 20:21, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

 * There's actually a 3rd figure. If you add the mileage figures given for each of the 3 contractors listed in the construction section, that adds up to 1909 miles. While none of these 3 figures is cited to a source, most of the text of this article came from a knowledgable volunteer from the California State Railroad Museum in Sacramento, who unfortunately appears to be inactive nowadays. As such, I have no reason to doubt these figures are as accurate as can be reasonably expected for such a long line built in the 1860s, and given the primitive tools for measuring distance of the day. However, the article mentions that even though the line was declared complete in May 1869, there were still missing bridges that meant the line wasn't truly complete until 1872. It is not clear if any of these figures include those missing bridges or not. That could also easily explain the discrepancy. All this to say, I don't know, but I'm not concerned about it either. Dave (talk) 05:33, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

 * Adding a bit more to the discussion. A quick Google search yielded 2 sources. However, these two sources only include the Union Pacific and Central Pacific portions of the line, they exclude the Western Pacific portion. Per the Wikipedia article the WP portion was 132 miles, so take that 132 mile difference into account if we want to do an apples to apples comparison. This one gives a figure of 1779 miles and matches the figures for CP and UP portions listed in the Wikipedia article. this one gives the figure of 1776 miles and has a different figure for the Union Pacific portion than the figure cited on the Wikipedia article, the Central Pacific portion matches. Dave (talk) 05:51, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:First transcontinental railroad


text:
Farmer Giles of Ham

Farmer Giles of Ham is a comic medieval fable written by J. R. R. Tolkien in 1937 and published in 1949. The story describes the encounters between Farmer Giles and a wily dragon named Chrysophylax, and how Giles manages to use these to rise from humble beginnings to rival the king of the land. It is cheerfully anachronistic and light-hearted, set in Britain in an imaginary period of the Dark Ages. It features mythical creatures, medieval knights, and primitive firearms.

Scholars have noted that despite the story's light-hearted nature, reflected in Tolkien's playful use of his professional discipline, philology, it embodies several serious concerns. The setting is quasi-realistic, being the area around Oxford where Tolkien lived and worked. The story parodies multiple aspects of traditional dragon-slaying tales, and has roots in modern and medieval literature, from Norse myth to Spenser's The Faerie Queene. Its concern for the "Little Kingdom" embodies Tolkien's environmentalism, in particular his well-founded fears for the loss of the countryside of Oxfordshire and surrounding areas.

Plot summary
Farmer Giles (Ægidius Ahenobarbus Julius Agricola de Hammo, "Giles Redbeard Julius, Farmer of Ham") is fat and red-bearded and enjoys a slow, comfortable life. A rather deaf and short-sighted giant blunders on to his land, and Giles manages to send him away with a blunderbuss shot. The people of the village cheer: Farmer Giles has become a hero. His reputation spreads across the kingdom, and he is rewarded by the King with an unfashionable old sword.

The giant, on returning home, relates to his friends that there are no more knights in the Middle Kingdom, just stinging flies—actually the scrap metal shot from the blunderbuss—and this entices a dragon from Venedotia, Chrysophylax Dives, to investigate the area. The terrified neighbours all expect the accidental hero Farmer Giles to deal with him.

The knights sent by the King to pursue the dragon turn out to be full of excuses not to do their duty. The villagers look to Giles to do something. The local priest finds that the old sword is Caudimordax ("Tailbiter"), meant specifically for killing dragons.

Giles sets out and meets Chrysophylax. The sword turns out to be able to fight almost on its own; Giles hits the dragon with the sword, damaging its wing so it cannot fly, and leads it through the town. It is made to promise to bring its treasure to the villagers, but it does not keep its word.

The king sends Giles and the knights to deal with Chrysophylax. The knights have never seen any dragon apart from their Christmas dragon-tail cake made of marzipan. Chrysophylax kills them. Giles survives, and with his sword he masters the dragon and obtains part of the treasure. On his way home, he acquires the servants of the dead knights. Back at home, with servants and treasure, Giles becomes a powerful lord.

Publication history
Farmer Giles of Ham was originally illustrated by Pauline Baynes. The story has appeared with other works by Tolkien in omnibus editions, including The Tolkien Reader and Tales from the Perilous Realm.

Tolkien dedicated Farmer Giles of Ham to Cyril Hackett Wilkinson (1888–1960), a don (lecturer) he knew at Oxford University; Wilkinson had encouraged Tolkien to go ahead with writing the story for the Lovelace Society at Worcester College.

Quasi-realistic geographical setting

Tolkien, a philologist, sprinkled philological jokes into the tale, including intentionally false etymologies. The place-names are of places close to Ox[en]ford including Oakley, Otmoor and the Rollright Stones. At the end of the story, Giles is made Lord of Tame, and Count of Worminghall. The Tolkien scholar John Garth comments that the tale is "an elaborate false explanation for the name of the Buckinghamshire village of Worminghall".

Quasi-realistic historical setting
It has been suggested that the Middle Kingdom is based on early Mercia, and that Giles's break-away realm (the Little Kingdom) is based on Frithuwald's Surrey.

The tale's Foreword states that the tale is "a translation" from "insular Latin" of events taking place "after the days of King Coel maybe, but before Arthur or the Seven Kingdoms of the English".

Blunderbuss philology

Another joke puts a question concerning the definition of blunderbuss to "the four wise clerks of Oxenford": "A short gun with a large bore firing many balls or slugs, and capable of doing execution [killing people] within a limited range without exact aim. (Now superseded, in civilised countries, by other firearms.)" Tolkien had worked on the Oxford English Dictionary, and the "four wise clerks" are "undoubtedly" the four lexicographers Henry Bradley, William Craigie, James Murray, and Charles Talbut Onions. Tolkien then satirises the dictionary definition by applying it to Farmer Giles's weapon:

However, Farmer Giles's blunderbuss had a wide mouth that opened like a horn, and it did not fire balls or slugs, but anything that he could spare to stuff in. And it did not do execution, because he seldom loaded it, and never let it off. The sight of it was usually enough for his purpose. And this country was not yet civilised, for the blunderbuss was not superseded: it was indeed the only kind of gun that there was, and rare at that.

The Tolkien scholar Tom Shippey comments: "Giles's blunderbuss ... defies the definition and works just the same."

Parody dragon-slaying tale

Romuald Lakowski describes Farmer Giles of Ham as a "delightful, and even in places brilliant, parody of the traditional dragon-slaying tale." The parody has many strands. The hero is a farmer, not a knight; the dragon is a coward, and is not killed, but tamed and forced to return his treasure. Lakowski derives Chrysophylax both from medieval dragons and from comic stories contemporary with Tolkien, like Edith Nesbit's The Dragon Tamers and Kenneth Grahame's The Reluctant Dragon. The story embodies a charter myth, in which Giles's descendants have a dragon on their crest because of his deeds. Further, it serves as a local legend, with mock etymologies of actual place-names. Giles's cowardly talking dog Garm is named for the terrifying dog of the Norse underworld. Giles's magic named sword may derive partly from Norse myth, too; the god Freyr had a sword that could fight by itself. As for the fight with the dragon, the wounding of the monster's wing echoes an episode in Spenser's The Faerie Queene. Other allusions may include the legend of Saint George and the Dragon, as that dragon was brought back to the city, tamed, and led with the girdle of a maiden round its neck; and the Völsunga saga, as the dragon's cave sounds much like Fáfnir's.

Environmentalism
Alex Lewis, in Mallorn, writes that Tolkien lamented the loss of the countryside in and around Oxfordshire, which formed "the Little Kingdom" of the story. Tolkien loved nature, especially trees, and had what Lewis calls "well-founded" fears for the environment, "verg[ing] on the prophetic". Lewis analyses the factors that were causing this loss. They included the growth in Oxfordshire's population in the 20th century (doubling between 1920 and 1960); the area's industrialisation by Morris Motors, and the concomitant increase in motor traffic in the city of Oxford; the building of roads, including the M40 motorway cutting across the countryside; and the suburbanisation of Oxford as commuters started to use the railway to allow them to live in Oxford but work in London. The Second World War increased the number of airfields in the area from 5 to 96, causing the Oxfordshire countryside to be "gutted". Lewis states that Tolkien had hoped to write a sequel to Farmer Giles of Ham, but found that his legendarium had "bubbled up, infiltrated, and probably spoiled everything", and that it was "difficult [in 1949] to recapture the spirit of the former days, when we used to beat the bounds of the L[ittle] K[ingdom] in an ancient car." Tolkien was horrified by the change that motor traffic wreaked on Oxford, and the air pollution; he had given up his happy but dangerous driving, as depicted in his children's story Mr. Bliss, at the start of the war.

title: Farmer Giles of Ham


text:
Talk:Forrest J Ackerman

Clifton's Cafeteria
I believe that "the now legendary Clifton’s Cafeteria Science Fiction Club" is the same as the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society, which Ackerman was a founding member of and which met at Clifton's Cafeteria during the late 1930s. Technically, it was the Los Angeles Science Fiction League (or the Los Angeles chapter of the Science Fiction League) from 1934 to 1940, when it voted to secede from the SFL and become an independent club.

Ackerman has told me personally that his middle name is James but that he prefers to use the initial J only without a period.75.25.28.114 15:26, 9 September 2007 (UTC)Fred Patten

Fred is correct. There was no "Clifton's Cafeteria Science Fiction Club," at least by that name. It was, as said, the Los Angeles chapter of The Science Fiction League, which became LASFS/Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society. It still meets every Thursday night, but now in its own clubhouse. In THE SCI-FI GUYS DVD, someone erroneously identifies the club as "The Rocket Society," but that's incorrect, too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bill Warren 76.93.27.121 (talk) 01:24, 7 March 2009 (UTC)76.93.27.121 (talk) 01:12, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

"J" or "J."?
I have a signed "foto" of 4E and I, which he was asked to sign to "James", as I have a bunch signed by him to "Jim" or "Jimmy". He autographed it "To James, Forrest James Ackermonster". I am the co-author of the photographic book tour of his Ackermansion, HOUSE OF ACKERMAN (Midnight Marquee Press June 2010 by Al Astrella and James Greene),which has a foreword by Forry, afterward by his assistant Joe Moe, and introduction by John Landis. In our preface, by filmmaker Paul Davids (Roswell UFO and Sci-Fi Boys are among his works) Davids tells of winning the bids for Forry's personal portraits and papers at the Profiles in Hollywood auction. Among them was Forry's birth certificate. It recorded his middle name as James and his first name as Forest (one "r"). He always left the dot out of "J" which was typical of his wordplay and long time disdain for the King's English and its unnecessary letters and punctuation. However, probably due to some publishers being unaware of his preference, occasionally the period would pop up, as on the covers and interior of A.E. Van Vogt's short story collections "Monsters" and "Science Fiction Monsters" which FJA (no periods) edited and wrote introductions for. Among my small collection of former Ackermansion items is a poster-sized cartoon devil drawn by one of 4E's friends that says: "There is NO(underlined) dot behind the "J" in F.J Ackerman! ("It turned green and fell off", says the devil.) Ackermonster (talk) 08:24, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

I might be wrong, but I think Ackerman's middle name is just "j", without the period (same as "Harry S Truman"). Will try to confirm before messing with redirects, etc.

 * The above is correct, 4sj's middle name is J with no period, and someone should fix the redirects (I don't know how).

 * I believe his middle name is James, but he goes by "Forrest J Ackerman", no period. If I (or someone else) gets a positive answer on which this should be, I'll be happy to move the article and fix the redirects. (By the way, Truman himself, although he had several quips about his nameless middle initial, used a period in his signature, as discussed in the "Truman's middle initial" section of his Wikipedia article.) — Jeff Q 09:28, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Some smarty-pants editor decided that Wikipedia's punctuation style trumps Forry's wishes — now what? Lars T. (talk) 23:58, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

No, Forry's middle name was neither J with a period nor J without a period. It was James. As Fred Patten says above, he simply decided not to use his middle name in its entirety, just the first letter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bill Warren 76.93.27.121 (talk) 01:24, 7 March 2009 (UTC)76.93.27.121 (talk) 01:04, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Mr Warren's comment above is correct, Ackerman's middle name was James. He personally told me (excuse the tautology but it's for emphasis), "I thought the 'ames' was too ordinary, so I just used the J." Alex Paige (talk) 06:40, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

This doesnt appear conclusive yet. The lack of a period is very odd; I'd like to know there is a very good reason for it. Are there any other "Forrest Ackerman" worth mentioning? If we cant work it out, I think we should move the page name to Forrest Ackerman (no J, no J.) because it is simpler. John Vandenberg (chat) 12:22, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

 * It was a personal affectation of Forry's, documented for over 50 years, to be known as Forrest J Ackerman (no period). We should not move the article to any form without the J because the J was part of the name by which he was known worldwide for over half a century. -- Orange Mike  |   Talk  13:52, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

 * How you can say "this doesn't appear conclusive yet" is beyond me. Consult any reputable science fiction enyclopedia or any of the numerous works authored by Forrest J Ackerman which include anthologies, 190+ issues of Famous Monsters of Filmland magazine, 137 paperback editions of Perry Rhodan published by Ace Books etc. All of which credit him as "Forrest J Ackerman" without the period. That was the name he used professionally and by which he is known. He is not known as "Forrest Ackerman" or "Forrest J. Ackerman". What more conclusive evidence would be required? Referring to him as "Forrest Ackerman" may be simpler but it is (1) inaccurate and (2) not the way in which he referred to himself. Should we also amend the entry for "George W. Bush" to "George Bush Jr" because it is simpler? Alex Paige (talk) 00:54, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

 * As for the reason for it: it goes back to the 1930s, when science fiction fans were trying to "futurize" spellings and abbreviations. Forry would often spell his name as "4e" for that reason. Words like "catalogue" and "thought" would be spelled as "catalog" and "thot" on the assumption that in the future the "-ue" endings would become obsolete. By the same reasoning, it was considered that periods after middle initials would be considered obsolete, in exactly the same manner in which punctuation has evolved to remove extraneous commas in journalism, for example at the end of subordinate clauses. Alex Paige (talk) 01:01, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

It is amusing to observe that the page for 4e in Esperanto uses the period. (It's a very short article, too. Needs lengthening.) I'm not an Esperantist (like many, I can read the stuff, but not write it) so I'm not going to try to correct the page, but with Forrest having been an Esperantist himself, one would think that one or two of the remaining living Esperantists would take the trouble to improve it Snezzy (talk) 09:44, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
 * There are plenty of Esperantists out here, some of us also English-speakers. Forry was not consistent in using the period-free J in Esperanto, so the period remains in that article. As to improving the article: Forry was more famous as an Esperantist outside the movement than inside; thus, the number of Esperanto-language sources available is much smaller (outside of some old and incredibly rare Esperanto-language fanzines). -- Orange Mike  |   Talk  22:41, 1 August 2010 (UTC) (who did a couple of panels at cons with him)

Jan. 12, 2006 Copy Edits
I made some copy edit on Jan. 12 (UTC). In addition to the usual link work, I edited some sentences for flow and to reduce excess verbiage: many sentences were basically running lists. I removed two sentences about actors he knew and writers he corresponded with, since that is not really notable or important, given that his stature is large enough that such acquaintances and correspondence is completely expected and unsurprising.

Mentor to directors: I almost removed the claim that "he served as a mentor" to a large list of famous film directors, and I still think we should remove it. In the interim, I have put a citation-needed tag on it. I think the claim is an exaggeration, both in the number of directors and in the degree of influence, since "mentor" implies roles of teacher and close associate and also implied a great deal of influence.

First Hugo: I changed that to first Hugo for best fan writer.

Perry Rhodan series: I reduced the verbiage and removed the non-neutral-PoV (nNPoV) "unfortunately".

Appearances: Merged redundant material from above into this section and reduced verbiage ("e.g.").

See also section: The lists are not specifically related to Ackerman so I removed the section.

In summary, I think the article as I found it had nNPoV over-awed fan cruft in it that I tried to eliminate. Hu 01:37, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Forry received the first award given at a World Science Fiction Convention, but it was before they were termed the Hugos. And the award was for "No. One Fan Personality" of the previous year, not for writing. The award was correctly but RETROACTIVELY called a Hugo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bill Warren76.93.27.121 (talk) 01:06, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

"Mr Science Fiction" citation request
As a 52-y-o SF fan myself I have long known this, but stretching out my right arm to pick up Clute & Nicholls's xxxvi + 1,370-page The Encyclopedia of Science Fiction (Orbit, London 1993) and leafing to the entry (by Malcolm J Edwards and John Clute) for Ackerman, Forrest James on pp 3-4, I find:
 * '. . . as early as 1932 served as associate editor of The Time Traveller, the first fanzine. For many decades thereafter he wrote stories and articles prolifically for fan journals - using his own name and a wide variety of elaborate pseudonyms . . . - and becoming known in fan circles as "Mr Science Fiction"; he won . . .'

I hope this is sufficiently authoritative confirmation of this minor matter. Apologies for lacking the wiki-fu to edit and add references myself.

Sadly, as I write the breaking news is that Forry is very ill, so this article may need further updating soon; I am sure many others will be far more qualified than I. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 22:31, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

 * I'm not a particularly experienced editor, either, but I did my best to add a reference to this sad news in an appropriate place. --Happypete (talk) 02:13, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Reports of death
A false report of Forry's death has come out of England as of approximately 9 p.m. Eastern Time (US), Thursday, November 6. An accurate source of his health can be found at the Classic Horror Film Board. Many people at that board know Forry and see him often. If there is any change in his condition, that board will have the correct information as soon, if not sooner, than the general press. Please consult that before posting anything about Forry's death. — Walloon (talk) 03:44, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

His death is reported at http://www.locusmag.com. Because of the preceding comment I have not updated the article. Thiesen (talk) 05:36, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

 * The problem with citing Locus as a source is that Locus cited Wikipedia as it's source. This leads to circular reasoning.  I reverted out the incorrect report based on info from Alex Paige, who seems to be in close contact with Forry's caregivers. (LASFS Webmaster) Bgoldnyxnet (talk) 01:05, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

 * One of the other edits mentioning his death appears to have come from Laurie D. T. Mann, who not only runs the Dead People Server, but is sufficiently well-connected in Fandom to have access to accurate sources --Ray Radlein (talk) 05:59, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

 * On the other hand, edit wars are a large part of why I hardly ever spend time here any more, and he'll still presumably be just as dead tomorrow (although if anyone could arise from beyond the grave, it would be Forry), so despite the fact that Locus is absolutely a sufficient source for a cite under WP's standards, I'll just leave it alone as well for now. I've put follow-up queries in with various fannish sources, and we'll see if new information develops. --Ray Radlein (talk) 06:20, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No source is sufficient if it incorrectly reports someone's death. — Walloon (talk) 13:55, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Email from: Alex Paige -- Fri, 07 Nov 2008 17:15:29 +1100:

 * "I'm just sending out a group email to let you know that the reports of Forrest J Ackerman's death which are currently circulating are incorrect. / Here's the facts: Mr Ackerman is suffering from congestive heart failure and pneumonia and has elected not to undergo any further treatment or medication. He is resting comfortably at home surrounded by close friends and is lucid though weak. He is not deceased. / An erroneous report earlier today on the British Fantasy Society website has now been picked up by both Wikipedia and, worse yet, Locus Online which has posted an obituary. Nobody seems to bother to check sources anymore. / Corrections have been sent out to all concerned (the wiki entry has been amended) but of course neither the BFS site nor Locus has been amended as yet. / Can I respectfully ask that people wait for official notification of Forry's condition from his people before publishing any premature reports of his shuffling off this mortal coil. [...] / I've been in contact with the webstaffer [correction] of LASFS - surely the most appropriate site to keep up to date as Forry was a founding member - and she will be supplied with the most up to date news, so may I respectfully suggest that you check there for details."

 * Note that this is dated a day after the supposed death report. The LASFS site is here and the current Ackerman news thread is here. DeafMan (talk) 09:36, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Locus have now said their report was premature. Molotron (talk) 15:23, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

British Fantasy Society has also now issued a retraction. I am in regular contact with Forry's primary carer Joe Moe and will update Wikipedia with major changes in Mr Ackerman's health status as soon as it comes to hand. Alex Paige (talk) 02:58, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

It's on the AP newswires now, dammit. Ĝis la revido, kara samideano! -- Orange Mike  |   Talk  20:43, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Regrettably, death confirmed as occuring at 11.58pm Thursday December 4 at his home in Los Angeles.Alex Paige (talk) 22:30, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Gross Understatement
I just stopped to read this entry after hearing of Mr. Ackerman's passing and was struck by what a gross understatement, to say the least, is contained in the opening sentence. "Forrest J Ackerman (November 24, 1916 - December 4, 2008)[1] was an American collector of science fiction books and movie memorabilia and a science fiction fan." Forry Ackerman was certainly both a collector and fan, but he was so incredibly much more to American science fiction - a writer, an actor (albeit bit roles), a literary agent, and probably the foremost promoter of the genre throughout the 20th century. I'm hopeful that, in the course of folks looking at this over the next few days, that someone will craft an appropriate opening sentence that suitably acknowledges the gentleman's contributions to the field.Irish Melkite (talk) 21:11, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, Forry Ackerman did more in his lifetime to promote science fiction, fantasy and horror than anyone else living or dead has ever managed.Alex Paige (talk) 12:10, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Could someone add to FJA's page for me?
Hi, I can't access the FJA page because it's semi-protected and I'm new to Wikipedia. But I'd like to have an award added to FJ's list..

In 1999, he was awarded the very first Mangled Skyscraper Award by the Godzilla Society of North America at their annual G-FEST.

To whoever posts this, thanks. Muklapta (talk) 06:14, 14 December 2008 (UTC)Muklapta

 * Sorry, no. Non-notable award by non-notable organization. -- Orange Mike  |   Talk  20:08, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

The power
Someone needs to remove THE POWER from the list of films in which Forry appears. He did shoot a scene for that George Pal production, but it never made it into the final print. Pal gave the footage to Forry, and it "lived" in his refrigerator for years.==Bill Warren —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.93.27.121 (talk) 01:26, 7 March 2009 (UTC) Bill Warren76.93.27.121 (talk) 01:22, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This was done. -- John Vandenberg (chat) 12:18, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Other Magazines by Ackerman
Ackerman created and edited three other magazines, all relatively short lived: Spacemen, which was dedicated to science fiction, Screen Thrills Illustrated, which was dedicated to movie serials and other adventure movies, and Favorite Westerns of Filmland (retitled Wildest Westerns with issue #3). The first issue of Spacemen has a September 1961 cover date, the first issue of Screen Thrills Illustrated was published with a June 1962 cover date, and the first issue of Favorite Westerns of Filmland has a May 1960 cover date.

References:

1. http://www.moviemags.com/main.php?title=SPACEMEN&etos=1961. Accessed on 2/19/2010.

2. http://www.moviemags.com/main.php?title=SCREEN%20THRILLS%20ILLUSTRATED&etos=1962. Accessed on 2/19/2010.

3. http://www.moviemags.com/main.php?title=FAVORITE%20WESTERNS%20OF%20FILMLAND&etos=%. Accessed on 2/19/2010.

--Zoetmb (talk) 04:38, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Was Ackerman really the "creator and editor" of all three of these titles? The above referenced pages at moviemags.com only identify them as Warren magazines.  Harvey Kurtzman was the editor of Favorite Westerns, according to "The Warren Companion" (TwoMorrows Publishing, 2001, pg. 224).  Can someone confirm Ackerman's involvement before this data is considered for the main entry? The News Hound 07:11, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * My clippings from Spacemen list Forrest J. Ackerman as editor. My copies of Spacemen Apr 1962 Vol 1 No 3, and Oct 1962, Vol 2 No 1, lists Forrest J. Ackerman as "editor-in-orbit and writer to the stars" and James Warren as "interstellar publisher". The paper, fonts, artwork, puns, all match Famous Mosters of Filmland with the Ackerman touch over all. --Naaman Brown (talk) 18:52, 6 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Perhaps more explicitly, there was Forrest J Ackerman's Monsterland that ran for about a year and a half. Forry was the explicit, credited editor of that one. I've been somewhat baffled to find it entirely unacknowledged anywhere I can see on Wikipedia FangsFirst (talk) 23:34, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

biography
fyi -- Forry: The Life of Forrest J Ackerman by Deborah Painter

Hardcover: 224 pages Publisher: McFarland (November 15, 2010) Language: English ISBN 9780786448845

69.111.194.167 (talk) 18:09, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Forrest Clark Ackerman???
Folks, I am aware that for a good number of years, Forry's real name has been thought to be Forrest J (without a period) Ackerman or Forrest James Ackerman. However, I have been reading a fascinating full length biography called Forry by Deborah Painter. In Ms. Painter's book, Forry's birth name was given as Forrest Clark Ackerman. That really blew my mind. Shouldn't we revise this article to correct his birth name? If it is correct that Forry's name is really Forrest Clark Ackerman, could anyone explain why his name was changed to Forrest J (without a period) Ackerman? I am really interested in what others have to say about this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.6.240.34 (talk) 17:13, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

Below is something I just picked up from a website http://efanzines.com/AOY/AOY-13.htm. It sez:

Since Ackerman has drifted away from fandom, lots of us forget that he never liked to have a period placed after his middle initial. In the July, 1938 Imagination, he told something about his middle initial troubles in this respect:

“FJA was born Forrest James Ackerman. The Sacramento records will reveal it. But he doesn’t feel it. He has an uncle named A; just A, no punctuation because it’s not an abbreviation for another name -- tho they always called him Ed. So A’s name seems to’ve become Ed instead of what it originally was. Vice versa, Ack has altered his to J (no dot.) Oddly enough, it might’ve been 4E’s lot to be known as Forrest C. Ackerman, for the first half of his life -- and early years of his stf career (if such it can be called) -- he is now appalled at the fact that he never knew...he thought his middle name was Clark! Everybody called him Clark. He scribbled his name that way at school. Explanation: he was named after a friend of the family, James Clarke.”

Wow...any thoughts on this??? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.6.240.34 (talk) 19:23, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

HIS HIGH SCHOOL?
Does anyone know what high school he attended. If he know Bradbury and Harryhausen, he must have gone to a high school in Los Angeles. I asked Wendayne once, but she wasn't very clear at the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.250.67.148 (talk) 23:44, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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External links modified (January 2018)
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Allegations of inappropriate behavior?
Would it be appropriate to add mention of this? At least one first-person incident is covered here, and it has gotten mention here and here as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.230.232.119 (talk) 17:58, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

 * I think we should, but am not sure how much detail to give or how to cite. Thoughts? Bookgrrl holler/ lookee here  20:28, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:11, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Forrest J. Ackerman, collector of movie memorabilia, with fan..jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:03, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Forrest J. Ackerman, collector of movie memorabilia, with fan..jpg

Sexual harassment, predatory behavior
Several highly credible allegations have been made of inappropriate (to say the least) behavior on Ackerman's part, in various online magazines and forums. I believe this needs to be reflected in the article. See for example https://buzzdixon.com/home/2018/2/11/perverts-of-geekdom and https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2018/02/06/forry-too/  I believe this should be reflected in the article, yes? 128.230.232.119 (talk) 15:08, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This has come up a few times before. Can you cite the "online magazines" that discuss this, specifically the ones that comply with the reliable sources guideline?  The problem in the past - and with the two links above - is that they're blogs.  All a blog proves is that someone on the Internet believed the allegations, but said allegations were originally posted on message boards and the like.  While Ackerman is dead and thus BLP doesn't apply, it's still true that the Wikipedia expectations for content alleging scandalous crimes is just about the strictest around.  It needs to be line-by-line cited from highly reliable, neutral sources that indicate that they've done some research and believe the allegations, rather than merely reporting on the existence of the allegations.
 * I recognize that it's very possible Ackerman doesn't deserve this deference, but this kind of strict policy is important. The problem is Wikipedia needs to distinguish between the cases where real allegations float around online and for the cases where there's some angry troll online who merely posts lots of allegations of impropriety; the solution is to mandate that someone reliable has bothered to investigate whether they're true or not.  And even then, it often needs to be attributed to the journalist directly if the allegations are spicy enough.  See Allen_Weinstein for an example where there was sufficient journalistic backing to discuss the posthumous allegations.  SnowFire (talk) 16:54, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Right, I see what you're saying. Hm.  What about first-person accounts from someone who personally experienced said behavior, would that suffice?  Or citation from an archive that holds item(s) that support the allegations?  While "due diligence" is important, I think (esp in cases like this) it's also important not to downplay the information simply because there's no "official" report, or because the person in question isn't important enough to warrant mainstream media investigation, you know? 128.230.232.119 (talk) 21:05, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, the easiest way would be for if a journalist interviewed the person offering the first-hand accounts. Technically, we do have WP:ORTS for things like submitted testimonials, but I don't think that's really appropriate here - that's for more self-avowal things by the notable party themselves.
 * I think what you describe is a good policy for life-in-general, just Wikipedia has somewhat stricter standards, in the same way you have to be more careful what you say if you publish a book vs. just chatter with friends & co-workers. SnowFire (talk) 05:09, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Forrest J Ackerman


text:
List of freshwater aquarium fish species

A vast number of freshwater species have successfully adapted to live in aquariums. This list gives some examples of the most common species found in home aquariums.