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Symphony No. 9 (Beethoven)

The Symphony No. 9 in D minor, Op. 125, is a choral symphony, the final complete symphony by Ludwig van Beethoven, composed between 1822 and 1824. It was first performed in Vienna on 7 May 1824. The symphony is regarded by many critics and musicologists as a masterpiece of Western classical music and one of the supreme achievements in the history of music. One of the best-known works in common practice music, it stands as one of the most frequently performed symphonies in the world.

The Ninth was the first example of a major composer scoring vocal parts in a symphony. The final (4th) movement of the symphony, commonly known as the Ode to Joy, features four vocal soloists and a chorus in the parallel key of D major. The text was adapted from the "An die Freude (Ode to Joy)", a poem written by Friedrich Schiller in 1785 and revised in 1803, with additional text written by Beethoven. In the 20th century, an instrumental arrangement of the chorus was adopted by the Council of Europe, and later the European Union, as the Anthem of Europe.

In 2001, Beethoven's original, hand-written manuscript of the score, held by the Berlin State Library, was added to the Memory of the World Programme Heritage list established by the United Nations, becoming the first musical score so designated.

Composition
The Philharmonic Society of London originally commissioned the symphony in 1817. Preliminary sketches (rough outlines) for the work were also made that year, with the key set as D minor and vocal participation also forecast. The main composition work was done between autumn 1822 and the completion of the autograph in February 1824. The symphony emerged from other pieces by Beethoven that, while completed works in their own right, are also in some sense forerunners of the future symphony. The 1808 Choral Fantasy, Op. 80, basically a piano concerto movement, brings in a choir and vocal soloists near the end for the climax. The vocal forces sing a theme first played instrumentally, and this theme is reminiscent of the corresponding theme in the Ninth Symphony.

Going further back, an earlier version of the Choral Fantasy theme is found in the song "Gegenliebe" (Returned Love) for piano and high voice, which dates from before 1795. According to Robert W. Gutman, Mozart's Offertory in D minor, "Misericordias Domini", K. 222, written in 1775, contains a melody that foreshadows "Ode to Joy".

Premiere
Although most of his major works had been premiered in Vienna, Beethoven was keen to have his latest composition performed in Berlin as soon as possible after finishing it, as he thought that musical taste in Vienna had become dominated by Italian composers such as Rossini. When his friends and financiers heard this, they urged him to premiere the symphony in Vienna in the form of a petition signed by a number of prominent Viennese music patrons and performers.

Beethoven was flattered by the adoration of Vienna, so the Ninth Symphony was premiered on 7 May 1824 in the Theater am Kärntnertor in Vienna along with the overture The Consecration of the House (Die Weihe des Hauses) and three parts of the Missa solemnis (the Kyrie, Credo, and Agnus Dei). This was the composer's first onstage appearance in 12 years; the hall was packed with an eager and curious audience and a number of musicians and figures in Vienna including Franz Schubert, Carl Czerny, and the Austrian chancellor Klemens von Metternich.

The premiere of Symphony No. 9 involved the largest orchestra ever assembled by Beethoven and required the combined efforts of the Kärntnertor house orchestra, the Vienna Music Society (Gesellschaft der Musikfreunde), and a select group of capable amateurs. While no complete list of premiere performers exists, many of Vienna's most elite performers are known to have participated.

The soprano and alto parts were sung by two famous young singers: Henriette Sontag and Caroline Unger. German soprano Henriette Sontag was 18 years old when Beethoven personally recruited her to perform in the premiere of the Ninth. Also personally recruited by Beethoven, 20-year-old contralto Caroline Unger, a native of Vienna, had gained critical praise in 1821 appearing in Rossini's Tancredi. After performing in Beethoven's 1824 premiere, Unger then found fame in Italy and Paris. Italian composers Donizetti and Bellini were known to have written roles specifically for her voice. Anton Haizinger and Joseph Seipelt sang the tenor and bass/baritone parts, respectively.

Although the performance was officially directed by Michael Umlauf, the theatre's Kapellmeister, Beethoven shared the stage with him. However, two years earlier, Umlauf had watched as the composer's attempt to conduct a dress rehearsal for a revision of his opera Fidelio ended in disaster. So this time, he instructed the singers and musicians to ignore the almost completely deaf Beethoven. At the beginning of every part, Beethoven, who sat by the stage, gave the tempos. He was turning the pages of his score and beating time for an orchestra he could not hear.

There are a number of anecdotes concerning the premiere of the Ninth. Based on the testimony of some of the participants, there are suggestions that the symphony was under-rehearsed (there were only two full rehearsals) and somewhat uneven in execution. On the other hand, the premiere was a great success. In any case, Beethoven was not to blame, as violinist Joseph Böhm recalled:"Beethoven himself conducted, that is, he stood in front of a conductor's stand and threw himself back and forth like a madman. At one moment he stretched to his full height, at the next he crouched down to the floor, he flailed about with his hands and feet as though he wanted to play all the instruments and sing all the chorus parts. —The actual direction was in [Louis] Duport's hands; we musicians followed his baton only." Reportedly, the scherzo was completely interrupted at one point by applause. Either at the end of the scherzo or the end of the symphony (testimonies differ), Beethoven was several bars off and still conducting; the contralto Caroline Unger walked over and gently turned Beethoven around to accept the audience's cheers and applause. According to the critic for the Theater-Zeitung, "the public received the musical hero with the utmost respect and sympathy, listened to his wonderful, gigantic creations with the most absorbed attention and broke out in jubilant applause, often during sections, and repeatedly at the end of them." The audience acclaimed him through standing ovations five times; there were handkerchiefs in the air, hats, and raised hands, so that Beethoven, who they knew could not hear the applause, could at least see the ovations.

Editions
The first German edition was printed by B. Schott's Söhne (Mainz) in 1826. The Breitkopf & Härtel edition dating from 1864 has been used widely by orchestras. In 1997, Bärenreiter published an edition by Jonathan Del Mar. According to Del Mar, this edition corrects nearly 3,000 mistakes in the Breitkopf edition, some of which were "remarkable". David Levy, however, criticized this edition, saying that it could create "quite possibly false" traditions. Breitkopf also published a new edition by Peter Hauschild in 2005.

Instrumentation
The symphony is scored for the following orchestra. These are by far the largest forces needed for any Beethoven symphony; at the premiere, Beethoven augmented them further by assigning two players to each wind part.

Woodwinds
 * 2 Flutes
 * 2 Oboes
 * 2 Clarinets in A, B♭ and C
 * 2 Bassoons
 * 2 Bassoons

Brass
 * 4 Horns in D, B♭ and E♭
 * 2 Trumpets in D and B♭

Percussion

 * Timpani
 * Bass drum (fourth movement only)
 * Triangle (fourth movement only)
 * Cymbals (fourth movement only)

 * Soprano solo
 * Alto solo
 * Tenor solo

Strings
 * Violins I, II
 * Violas
 * Cellos
 * Double basses

Form
The symphony is in four movements. The structure of each movement is as follows:

 * {| class="wikitable"

! style="background: Silver" |Tempo marking ! style="background: Silver" |Meter ! style="background: Silver" |Key ! colspan="3" align="center" |Movement I ! colspan="3" align="center" |Movement II ! colspan="3" align="center" |Movement III ! colspan="3" align="center" |Movement IV ("Freude, schöner Götterfunken" – "Seid umschlungen, Millionen!")
 * Allegro ma non troppo, un poco maestoso ♩ = 88
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | d
 * align="center" | d
 * Molto vivace = 116
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | d
 * Tempo#Basic_tempo_markings|Presto = 116
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | D
 * Molto vivace
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | d
 * Presto
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | D
 * Presto
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | D
 * align="center" | D
 * Tempo#Basic_tempo_markings|Adagio molto e cantabile ♩ = 60
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | B♭
 * Tempo#Basic_tempo_markings|Andante moderato ♩ = 63
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | D
 * Tempo I
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | B♭
 * Andante moderato
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | G
 * Adagio
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | E♭
 * Lo stesso tempo
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | B♭
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | E♭
 * Lo stesso tempo
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | B♭
 * align="center" | B♭
 * Presto = 96
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | d
 * Allegro assai = 80
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | D
 * Presto ("O Freunde")
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | d
 * Allegro assai ("Freude, schöner Götterfunken")
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | D
 * Alla marcia; Allegro assai vivace = 84 ("Froh, wie seine Sonnen")
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | B♭
 * Andante maestoso = 72 ("Seid umschlungen, Millionen!")
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | G
 * Allegro energico, sempre ben marcato = 84
 * align="center" | B♭
 * Andante maestoso = 72 ("Seid umschlungen, Millionen!")
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | G
 * Allegro energico, sempre ben marcato = 84
 * Allegro energico, sempre ben marcato = 84
 * Allegro energico, sempre ben marcato = 84
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | D
 * Allegro ma non tanto = 120 ("Freude, Tochter aus Elysium!")
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | D
 * Tempo#Basic_tempo_markings|Prestissimo = 132 ("Seid umschlungen, Millionen!")
 * align="center" |
 * align="center" | D
 * }
 * align="center" | D
 * }
 * }

Beethoven changes the usual pattern of Classical symphonies in placing the scherzo movement before the slow movement (in symphonies, slow movements are usually placed before scherzi). This was the first time he did this in a symphony, although he had done so in some previous works, including the String Quartet Op. 18 no. 5, the "Archduke" piano trio Op. 97, the Hammerklavier piano sonata Op. 106. And Haydn, too, had used this arrangement in a number of his own works such as the String Quartet No. 30 in E♭ major, as did Mozart in three of the Haydn Quartets and the G minor String Quintet.

I. Allegro ma non troppo, un poco maestoso
The first movement is in sonata form without an exposition repeat. It begins with open fifths (A and E) played pianissimo by tremolo strings, steadily building up until the first main theme in D minor at bar 17.

The opening, with its perfect fifth quietly emerging, resembles the sound of an orchestra tuning up.

At the outset of the recapitulation (which repeats the main melodic themes) in bar 301, the theme returns, this time played fortissimo and in D major, rather than D minor. The movement ends with a massive coda that takes up nearly a quarter of the movement, as in Beethoven's Third and Fifth Symphonies.

A typical performance lasts about 15 minutes.

II. Molto vivace
The second movement is a scherzo and trio. Like the first movement, the scherzo is in D minor, with the introduction bearing a passing resemblance to the opening theme of the first movement, a pattern also found in the Hammerklavier piano sonata, written a few years earlier. At times during the piece, Beethoven specifies one downbeat every three bars—perhaps because of the fast tempo—with the direction ritmo di tre battute (rhythm of three beats) and one beat every four bars with the direction ritmo di quattro battute (rhythm of four beats). Normally, a scherzo is in triple time. Beethoven wrote this piece in triple time but punctuated it in a way that, when coupled with the tempo, makes it sound as if it is in quadruple time.

While adhering to the standard compound ternary design (three-part structure) of a dance movement (scherzo-trio-scherzo or minuet-trio-minuet), the scherzo section has an elaborate internal structure; it is a complete sonata form. Within this sonata form, the first group of the exposition (the statement of the main melodic themes) starts out with a fugue in D minor on the subject below.

For the second subject, it modulates to the unusual key of C major. The exposition then repeats before a short development section, where Beethoven explores other ideas. The recapitulation (repeating of the melodic themes heard in the opening of the movement) further develops the exposition's themes, also containing timpani solos. A new development section leads to the repeat of the recapitulation, and the scherzo concludes with a brief codetta.

The contrasting trio section is in D major and in duple time. The trio is the first time the trombones play. Following the trio, the second occurrence of the scherzo, unlike the first, plays through without any repetition, after which there is a brief reprise of the trio, and the movement ends with an abrupt coda.

The duration of the movement is about 11 minutes, but this may vary depending on whether two (frequently omitted) repeats are played.

III. Adagio molto e cantabile
The third movement is a lyrical, slow movement in B♭ major—a minor sixth away from the symphony's main key of D minor. It is in a double variation form, with each pair of variations progressively elaborating the rhythm and melodic ideas. The first variation, like the theme, is in time, the second in. The variations are separated by passages in, the first in D major, the second in G major, the third in E♭ major, and the fourth in B major. The final variation is twice interrupted by episodes in which loud fanfares from the full orchestra are answered by octaves by the first violins. A prominent French horn solo is assigned to the fourth player.

A performance lasts about 16 minutes.

IV. Finale
The choral finale is Beethoven's musical representation of universal brotherhood based on the "Ode to Joy" theme and is in theme and variations form.

The movement starts with an introduction in which musical material from each of the preceding three movements—though none are literal quotations of previous music —are successively presented and then dismissed by instrumental recitatives played by the low strings. Following this, the "Ode to Joy" theme is finally introduced by the cellos and double basses. After three instrumental variations on this theme, the human voice is presented for the first time in the symphony by the baritone soloist, who sings words written by Beethoven himself:  O Freunde, nicht diese Töne!' Sondern laßt uns angenehmere anstimmen, und freudenvollere''. '' ("Oh friends, not these sounds! Let us instead strike up more pleasing and more joyful ones!").

At about 24 minutes in length, the last movement is the longest of the four movements. Indeed, it is longer than some entire symphonies of the Classical era. Its form has been disputed by musicologists, as Nicholas Cook explains:

"Beethoven had difficulty describing the finale himself; in letters to publishers, he said that it was like his Choral Fantasy, Op. 80, only on a much grander scale. We might call it a cantata constructed round a series of variations on the 'Joy' theme. But this is rather a loose formulation, at least by comparison with the way in which many twentieth-century critics have tried to codify the movement's form. Thus there have been interminable arguments as to whether it should be seen as a kind of sonata form (with the 'Turkish' music of bar 331, which is in B♭ major, functioning as a kind of second group), or a kind of concerto form (with bars 1–207 and 208–330 together making up a double exposition), or even a conflation of four symphonic movements into one (with bars 331–594 representing a Scherzo, and bars 595–654 a slow movement). The reason these arguments are interminable is that each interpretation contributes something to the understanding of the movement, but does not represent the whole story."

Cook gives the following table describing the form of the movement:

In line with Cook's remarks, Charles Rosen characterizes the final movement as a symphony within a symphony, played without interruption. This "inner symphony" follows the same overall pattern as the Ninth Symphony as a whole, with four "movements":

 * 1) Theme and variations with slow introduction. The main theme, first in the cellos and basses, is later recapitulated by voices.
 * 2) Scherzo in a  military style. It begins at Alla marcia (bar 331 - 594) and concludes with a  variation of the main theme with chorus.
 * 3) Slow section with a new theme on the text "Seid umschlungen, Millionen!" It begins at Andante maestoso (bar 595–654).
 * 4) Fugato finale on the themes of the first and third "movements". It begins at Allegro energico (bar 655–762), and two canons on main theme and "Seid unschlungen, Millionen!" respectively. It begins at Allegro ma non tanto (bar 763–940).

Rosen notes that the movement can also be analysed as a set of variations and simultaneously as a concerto sonata form with double exposition (with the fugato acting both as a development section and the second tutti of the concerto).

Text of the fourth movement
The text is largely taken from Friedrich Schiller's "Ode to Joy", with a few additional introductory words written specifically by Beethoven (shown in italics). The text, without repeats, is shown below, with a translation into English. The score includes many repeats.

Towards the end of the movement, the choir sings the last four lines of the main theme, concluding with "Alle Menschen" before the soloists sing for one last time the song of joy at a slower tempo. The chorus repeats parts of "Seid umschlungen, Millionen!", then quietly sings, "Tochter aus Elysium", and finally, "Freude, schöner Götterfunken, Götterfunken!".

Reception
The symphony was dedicated to the King of Prussia, Frederick William III.

Music critics almost universally consider the Ninth Symphony one of Beethoven's greatest works, and among the greatest musical works ever written. The finale, however, has had its detractors: "Early critics rejected [the finale] as cryptic and eccentric, the product of a deaf and ageing composer." Verdi admired the first three movements but lamented what he saw as the bad writing for the voices in the last movement:

"The alpha and omega is Beethoven's Ninth Symphony, marvellous in the first three movements, very badly set in the last. No one will ever approach the sublimity of the first movement, but it will be an easy task to write as badly for voices as in the last movement. And supported by the authority of Beethoven, they will all shout: 'That's the way to do it...'"

Metronome markings
Conductors in the historically informed performance movement, notably Roger Norrington, have used Beethoven's suggested tempos, to mixed reviews. Benjamin Zander has made a case for following Beethoven's metronome markings, both in writing and in performances with the Boston Philharmonic Orchestra and Philharmonia Orchestra of London. Beethoven's metronome still exists and was tested and found accurate, but the original heavy weight (whose position is vital to its accuracy) is missing and many musicians have considered his metronome marks to be unacceptably high.

Re-orchestrations and alterations
A number of conductors have made alterations in the instrumentation of the symphony. Notably, Richard Wagner doubled many woodwind passages, a modification greatly extended by Gustav Mahler, who revised the orchestration of the Ninth to make it sound like what he believed Beethoven would have wanted if given a modern orchestra. Wagner's Dresden performance of 1864 was the first to place the chorus and the solo singers behind the orchestra as has since become standard; previous conductors placed them between the orchestra and the audience.

2nd bassoon doubling basses in the finale
Beethoven's indication that the 2nd bassoon should double the basses in bars 115–164 of the finale was not included in the Breitkopf & Härtel parts, though it was included in the full score.

Notable performances and recordings
The British premiere of the symphony was presented on 21 March 1825 by its commissioners, the Philharmonic Society of London, at its Argyll Rooms conducted by Sir George Smart and with the choral part sung in Italian. The American premiere was presented on 20 May 1846 by the newly formed New York Philharmonic at Castle Garden (in an attempt to raise funds for a new concert hall), conducted by the English-born George Loder, with the choral part translated into English for the first time. Leopold Stokowski's 1934 Philadelphia Orchestra and 1941 NBC Symphony Orchestra recordings also used English lyrics in the fourth movement.

Richard Wagner inaugurated his Bayreuth Festspielhaus by conducting the Ninth; since then it is traditional to open each Bayreuth Festival with a performance of the Ninth. Following the festival's temporary suspension after World War II, Wilhelm Furtwängler and the Bayreuth Festival Orchestra reinaugurated it with a performance of the Ninth.

Leonard Bernstein conducted a version of the Ninth Symphony at the Konzerthaus Berlin with Freiheit (Freedom) replacing Freude (Joy), to celebrate the fall of the Berlin Wall during Christmas of 1989. This concert was performed by an orchestra and chorus made up of many nationalities: from East and West Germany, the Bavarian Radio Symphony Orchestra and Chorus, the Chorus of the Berlin Radio Symphony Orchestra, and members of the Sächsische Staatskapelle Dresden, the Philharmonischer Kinderchor Dresden (Philharmonic Children's Choir Dresden); from the Soviet Union, members of the orchestra of the Kirov Theatre; from the United Kingdom, members of the London Symphony Orchestra; from the US, members of the New York Philharmonic; and from France, members of the Orchestre de Paris. Soloists were June Anderson, soprano, Sarah Walker, mezzo-soprano, Klaus König, tenor, and Jan-Hendrik Rootering, bass. Bernstein conducted the Ninth Symphony one last time with soloists Lucia Popp, soprano, Ute Trekel-Burckhardt, contralto, Wiesław Ochman, tenor, and Sergej Kopčák, bass, at the Prague Spring Festival with the Czech Philharmonic and Prague Philharmonic Choir in June 1990; he died four months later in October of the same year.

In 1998, Japanese conductor Seiji Ozawa conducted the fourth movement for the 1998 Winter Olympics opening ceremony, with six different choirs simultaneously singing from Japan, Germany, South Africa, China, the United States, and Australia.

In 1923, the first complete recording of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony was made by the acoustic recording process and conducted by Bruno Seidler-Winkler. The recording was issued by Deutsche Grammophon in Germany; the records were issued in the United States on the Vocalion label. The first electrical recording of the Ninth was recorded in England in 1926, with Felix Weingartner conducting the London Symphony Orchestra, issued by Columbia Records. The first complete American recording was made by RCA Victor in 1934 with Leopold Stokowski conducting the Philadelphia Orchestra. Since the late 20th century, the Ninth has been recorded regularly by period performers, including Roger Norrington, Christopher Hogwood, and Sir John Eliot Gardiner.

The BBC Proms Youth Choir performed the piece alongside Georg Solti's UNESCO World Orchestra for Peace at the Royal Albert Hall during the 2018 Proms at Prom 9, titled "War & Peace" as a commemoration to the centenary of the end of World War One.

At 79 minutes, one of the longest Ninths recorded is Karl Böhm's, conducting the Vienna Philharmonic in 1981 with Jessye Norman and Plácido Domingo among the soloists.

Influence
Many later composers of the Romantic period and beyond were influenced by the Ninth Symphony.

An important theme in the finale of Johannes Brahms' Symphony No. 1 in C minor is related to the "Ode to Joy" theme from the last movement of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. When this was pointed out to Brahms, he is reputed to have retorted "Any fool can see that!" Brahms's first symphony was, at times, both praised and derided as "Beethoven's Tenth".

The Ninth Symphony influenced the forms that Anton Bruckner used for the movements of his symphonies. His Symphony No. 3 is in the same key (D minor) as Beethoven's 9th and makes substantial use of thematic ideas from it. The slow movement of Bruckner's Symphony No. 7 uses the A–B–A–B–A form found in the 3rd movement of Beethoven's piece and takes various figurations from it.

In the opening notes of the third movement of his Symphony No. 9 (From the New World), Antonín Dvořák pays homage to the scherzo of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony with his falling fourths and timpani strokes.

Béla Bartók borrowed the opening motif of the scherzo from Beethoven's Ninth Symphony to introduce the second movement (scherzo) in his own Four Orchestral Pieces, Op. 12 (Sz 51).

Michael Tippett in his Third Symphony (1972) quotes the opening of the finale of Beethoven's Ninth and then criticises the utopian understanding of the brotherhood of man as expressed in the Ode to Joy and instead stresses man's capacity for both good and evil.

In the film The Pervert's Guide to Ideology, the philosopher Slavoj Žižek comments on the use of the Ode by Nazism, Bolshevism, the Chinese Cultural Revolution, the East-West German Olympic team, Southern Rhodesia, Abimael Guzmán (leader of the Shining Path), and the Council of Europe and the European Union.

Compact disc format
One legend is that the compact disc was deliberately designed to have a 74-minute playing time so that it could accommodate Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. Kees Immink, Philips' chief engineer, who developed the CD, recalls that a commercial tug-of-war between the development partners, Sony and Philips, led to a settlement in a neutral 12-cm diameter format. The 1951 performance of the Ninth Symphony conducted by Furtwängler was brought forward as the perfect excuse for the change, and was put forth in a Philips news release celebrating the 25th anniversary of the Compact Disc as the reason for the 74-minute length.

TV theme music
The Huntley–Brinkley Report used the opening to the second movement as its theme music during the run of the program on NBC from 1956 until 1970. The theme was taken from the 1952 RCA Victor recording of the Ninth Symphony by the NBC Symphony Orchestra conducted by Arturo Toscanini. A synthesized version of the opening bars of the second movement were also used as the theme for Countdown with Keith Olbermann on MSNBC and Current TV. A rock guitar version of the "Ode to Joy" theme was used as the theme for Suddenly Susan in its first season.

Use as (national) anthem
During the division of Germany in the Cold War, the "Ode to Joy" segment of the symphony was played in lieu of a national anthem at the Olympic Games for the United Team of Germany between 1956 and 1968. In 1972, the musical backing (without the words) was adopted as the Anthem of Europe by the Council of Europe and subsequently by the European Communities (now the European Union) in 1985. The "Ode to Joy" was also used as the national anthem of Rhodesia between 1974 and 1979, as "Rise, O Voices of Rhodesia". During the early 1990s, South Africa used an instrumental version of "Ode to Joy" in lieu of its national anthem at the time "Die Stem van Suid-Afrika" at sporting events, though it was never actually adopted as an official national anthem.

Use as a hymn melody
In 1907, the Presbyterian pastor Henry van Dyke Jr. wrote the hymn "Joyful, Joyful, we adore thee" while staying at Williams College. The hymn is commonly sung in English-language churches to the "Ode to Joy" melody from this symphony.

Year-end tradition
The German workers' movement began the tradition of performing the Ninth Symphony on New Year's Eve in 1918. Performances started at 11 p.m. so that the symphony's finale would be played at the beginning of the new year. This tradition continued during the Nazi period and was also observed by East Germany after the war.

The Ninth Symphony is traditionally performed throughout Japan at the end of the year. In December 2009, for example, there were 55 performances of the symphony by various major orchestras and choirs in Japan. It was introduced to Japan during World War I by German prisoners held at the Bandō prisoner-of-war camp. Japanese orchestras, notably the NHK Symphony Orchestra, began performing the symphony in 1925 and during World War II; the Imperial government promoted performances of the symphony, including on New Year's Eve. In an effort to capitalize on its popularity, orchestras and choruses undergoing economic hard times during Japan's reconstruction performed the piece at year's end. In the 1960s, these year-end performances of the symphony became more widespread, and included the participation of local choirs and orchestras, firmly establishing a tradition that continues today. Some of these performances feature massed choirs of up to 10,000 singers.

WQXR-FM, a classical radio station serving the New York metropolitan area, ends every year with a countdown of the pieces of classical music most requested in a survey held every December; though any piece could win the place of honor and thus welcome the New Year, i.e. play through midnight on January 1, Beethoven's Choral has won in every year on record.

Other choral symphonies
Prior to Beethoven's ninth, symphonies had not used choral forces and the piece thus established the genre of choral symphony. Numbered choral symphonies as part of a cycle of otherwise instrumental works have subsequently been written by numerous composers, including Felix Mendelssohn, Gustav Mahler, Ralph Vaughan Williams and Charles Ives among many others.

Other ninth symphonies
The scale and influence of Beethoven's ninth led later composers to ascribe a special significance to their own ninth symphonies, which may have contributed to the cultural phenomenon known as the curse of the ninth. A number of other composers' ninth symphonies also employ a chorus, such as those by Kurt Atterberg, Mieczysław Weinberg, Edmund Rubbra, Hans Werner Henze, and Robert Kyr. Anton Bruckner had not originally intended his unfinished ninth symphony to feature choral forces, however the use of his choral Te Deum in lieu of the uncompleted Finale was supposedly sanctioned by the composer. Dmitri Shostakovich had originally intended his Ninth Symphony to be a large work with chorus and soloists, although the symphony as it eventually appeared was a relatively short work without vocal forces.

Of his own Ninth Symphony, George Lloyd wrote: "When a composer has written eight symphonies he may find that the horizon has been blacked out by the overwhelming image of Beethoven and his one and only Ninth. There are other very good No. 5s and No. 3s, for instance, but how can one possibly have the temerity of trying to write another Ninth Symphony?" Niels Gade composed only eight symphonies, despite living for another twenty years after completing the eighth. He is believed to have replied, when asked why he did not compose another symphony, "There is only one ninth", in reference to Beethoven.

title: Symphony No. 9 (Beethoven)


text:
Piano Trios, Op. 1 (Beethoven)

Ludwig van Beethoven's Opus 1 is a set of three piano trios (written for piano, violin, and cello), first performed in 1795 in the house of Prince Lichnowsky, to whom they are dedicated. The trios were published in 1795.

Despite the Op. 1 designation, these trios were not Beethoven's first published compositions; this distinction belongs rather to his Dressler Variations for keyboard (WoO 63). Clearly he recognized the Op. 1 compositions as the earliest ones he had produced that were substantial enough (and marketable enough) to fill out a first major publication to introduce his style of writing to the musical public.

Op. 1 No. 1 - Piano Trio No. 1 in E-flat major

 * Allegro (E-flat major),
 * Adagio cantabile (A-flat major),
 * Scherzo. Allegro assai (E-flat major, with trio in A-flat major),
 * Finale. Presto (E-flat major),

The first movement opens with an ascending arpeggiated figure (a so-called Mannheim Rocket, like that opening the first movement of the composer's own Piano Sonata no 1, Opus 2 no 1),

Op. 1 No. 2 - Piano Trio No. 2 in G major

 * Adagio, - Allegro vivace,  (G major)
 * Largo con espressione (E major),
 * Scherzo. Allegro (G major, with a trio in B minor),
 * Finale. Presto (G major),

Op. 1 No. 3 - Piano Trio No. 3 in C minor

 * Allegro con brio (C minor),
 * Andante cantabile con Variazioni (E-flat major),
 * Minuetto. Quasi allegro (C minor, with a trio in C major),
 * Finale. Prestissimo (C minor, concluding in C major),

Unlike the other piano trios in this opus, the third trio does not have a scherzo as its third movement but a minuet instead.

This third piano trio was later reworked by Beethoven into the C minor string quintet, Op. 104.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Piano Trios, Op. 1 (Beethoven)


text:
Piano Trios, Op. 70 (Beethoven)

Op. 70 is a set of two Piano Trios by Ludwig van Beethoven, written for piano, violin, and cello. Both trios were composed during Beethoven's stay at Countess Marie von Erdödy's estate, and both are dedicated to her for her hospitality. They were published in 1809.

The first, in D major, known as the Ghost, is one of his best known works in the genre (rivaled only by the Archduke Trio). The D major trio features themes found in the second movement of Beethoven's Symphony No. 2. The All-Music Guide states that "because of its strangely scored and undeniably eerie-sounding slow movement, it was dubbed the 'Ghost' Trio. The name has stuck with the work ever since. The ghostly music may have had its roots in sketches for a Macbeth opera that Beethoven was contemplating at the time." According to Lewis Lockwood, Beethoven's pupil Carl Czerny wrote in 1842 that the slow movement reminded him (Czerny) of the ghost scene at the opening of Shakespeare's Hamlet, and this was the origin of the nickname. James Keller also attributes the nickname to Czerny, adding, "You may discard as erroneous the oft-encountered claim that this movement of the Ghost Trio is a reworking of music Beethoven originally sketched as the Witches Chorus for his Macbeth.

These pieces are representative of Beethoven's "Middle" stylistic period, which went from roughly 1803 to 1812, and which included many of his most famous works. Beethoven wrote the two piano trios while spending the summer of 1808 back once again in Heiligenstadt, Vienna, where he had completed his Symphony No. 5 the previous summer. He wrote the two trios immediately after finishing his Sinfonia pastorale, Symphony No. 6. This was a period of uncertainty in Beethoven's life, in particular because he had no dependable source of income at the time.

Although these two trios are sometimes numbered as "No. 5" and "No. 6", the numbering of Beethoven's twelve piano trios is not standardized, and in other sources the two Op. 70 trios may be shown as having different numbers, if any.

Piano Trio in D major, Op. 70 No. 1 "Ghost"

 * Allegro vivace e con brio, D major, 3/4
 * Largo assai ed espressivo, D minor, 2/4 [This movement is what gave the "Ghost Trio" its name]
 * Presto, D major, 4/4

Piano Trio in E-flat major, Op. 70 No. 2

 * Poco sostenuto – Allegro, ma non troppo, E-flat major, 4/4 - 6/8
 * Allegretto, C major/minor, 2/4
 * Allegretto ma non troppo, A-flat major, 3/4
 * Finale. Allegro, E-flat major, 2/4

The second movement is in double variation form.

title: Piano Trios, Op. 70 (Beethoven)


text:
Piano Trio, Op. 97 (Beethoven)

The Piano Trio in B-flat major, Op. 97, by Ludwig van Beethoven is a piano trio completed in 1811. It is commonly referred to as the Archduke Trio, because it was dedicated to Archduke Rudolph of Austria, the youngest of twelve children of Leopold II, Holy Roman Emperor. Rudolf was an amateur pianist and a patron, friend, and composition student of Beethoven. Beethoven dedicated about a dozen compositions to him.

The Archduke Trio was written late in Beethoven's so-called "middle period". He sketched out the draft for it in the summer of 1810 and completed the composition in March 1811. It follows the traditional four movement structure with sonata form in the first and rondo sonata form in the last movement. It also allows for a more prominent part for the piano than previous compositions.

Historical Context
The Archduke Trio came to fruition just months after a highly successful premiere of his Battle Symphony (Wellingtons Sieg, Op. 91). Though the relationship between Beethoven and Archduke Rudolf had its challenges, Beethoven was indebted to him for his unwavering financial support, on which account Beethoven continued to dedicate works to him. In this work, Beethoven increases the independence of the piano's role in relation to the violin and cello and in comparison with his earlier piano trios. There is much debate over the amount of time Beethoven dedicated to composing the Archduke Trio, though an earlier autograph from March 1811 could prove that it was composed in only three weeks' time. At this time, Beethoven was experiencing great success with his compositions and pitting publishers against each other. He may have been considering marriage according to personal correspondence via letters. Beethoven also wrote personally to Archduke Rudolf with the newly composed trio to have it copied within the archduke's palace out of fear that it would be stolen. This was a frequent transaction between the two and resulted in the archduke establishing a library of all of Beethoven's compositions with manuscript copies for preservation.

First performances
Two days after completion in 1811, Beethoven played the Archduke Trio in an informal setting at the Baron Neuworth's residency with no known performance after until 1814. The first public performance was given by Beethoven himself, Ignaz Schuppanzigh (violin), and Josef Linke (cello) at the Viennese hotel Zum römischen Kaiser on April 11, 1814. At the time, Beethoven's deafness compromised his ability as a performer, and after a repeat performance a few weeks later, Beethoven never appeared again in public as a pianist.

The violinist and composer Louis Spohr witnessed a rehearsal of the work, and wrote, "on account of his deafness there was scarcely anything left of the virtuosity of the artist which had formerly been so greatly admired. In forte passages the poor deaf man pounded on the keys until the strings jangled, and in piano he played so softly that whole groups of notes were omitted, so that the music was unintelligible unless one could look into the pianoforte part. I was deeply saddened at so hard a fate."

The pianist and composer Ignaz Moscheles attended the premiere, and wrote about the work, "in the case of how many compositions is the word 'new' misapplied! But never in Beethoven's, and least of all in this, which again is full of originality. His playing, aside from its intellectual element, satisfied me less, being wanting in clarity and precision; but I observed many traces of the grand style of playing which I had long recognized in his compositions."

Structure
The work is in four movements. A typical performance runs more than 40 minutes in length.

Allegro moderato
This first movement is in the home key of B-flat major and is in Sonata form. The first two measures present a motif consisting of five notes which are used throughout the trio in various altered forms. The main theme remains piano until the coda where it returns at a fortissimo indication.

Scherzo (Allegro)
Also in the home key of B-flat major, the second movement consists of a fast scherzo and trio rather than the traditional slow movement. Some editions show the repeats of scherzo and trio sections, but Beethoven published it originally as written out repeats. The triad used as motivic material in the first movement is presented as scales here in the second.

Andante cantabile, ma però con moto
The third movement is in the key of D major and follows variation form and is approached attacca to the finale movement. There has been some debate over the specific tempo intended by Beethoven as to the authenticity of the inclusion of "con moto" in the score.

Allegro moderato
This finale movement is as expected in the home key of B-flat major and employs a loose interpretation of the Rondo Sonata form structure: A B A' B A' (Coda) The similarities between all four movements rhythm can be seem culminated here where Beethoven increasingly shortens the rhythmic values before bar lines. During the lengthy coda, there is a stray in key centers as far as A major and E flat Major until returning to B-flat major at the end. Beethoven himself indicated during a rehearsal of the piece that it should not be played in a gentle manner, but with much energy and force.

Reception
Though there were complaints directed towards Beethoven after the public premiere regarding his abilities as a performer due to his increasing deafness, the trio itself enjoyed much success and was quickly considered as one of his masterpieces. His reputation and credibility as a composer did not diminish, but rather continued to soar. Music journals such as the Allgemeine Musikalische Zeitung viewed the trio as typical of the composer's output with nothing out of the ordinary. They considered the scherzo to be contrapuntal in nature, which speaks to what music textures were still acceptable for audiences at this time between the Classical and Romantic eras. Likewise, in 1823 the Allgemeine Musikalische Zeitung issued a call to musicians to perform the piece with much dedication and inspiration.

References in popular culture

 * The trio, referred to as The Archduke, plays a significant role in Elizabeth George's mystery A Traitor to Memory (2001)
 * In Haruki Murakami's novel Kafka on the Shore (2002), the piece and its history are used to explain the relationship between two main characters, Nakata and Hoshino, and the latter's development as a person.
 * In the Coen Brothers's film The Man Who Wasn't There (2001), the melancholic third movement of this work plays a central role, particularly in the climactic final scene in the electric chair.
 * In Colm Toibin's Nora Webster the recording figures prominently in the title character's musical development as well as the foil (the album cover) for an internal examination of how her life might have been different

title: Piano Trio, Op. 97 (Beethoven)


text:
Talk:Ludwig van Beethoven/Archive 3

Moonlight Sonata media file
The current Moonlight_sonata.ogg is inferior to another file on Wikipedia: Moonlight.ogg. I'm learning the piece myself (beginning pianist) and I wanted to hear a good example. In my opinion, the current one is void of any emotion whatsoever. Propose to replace

with

--Puddyglum 20:24, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Agree - the existing one seems to be produced by a midi sequencer, with no tempo variation at all. The other is an actual performance, and quite a nice one. --Stephen Burnett 21:09, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Made the change. This is my first edit!  yeah!... Puddyglum 21:35, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Romanticism template
Is there a reason that there is a romantic box but no classical box at the bottom of this article? I have no problem with the romanticism template staying in place, but to try and pigeonhole Beethoven as a "Romantic composer," while partly true, is a gross oversimplification, as he was as much classical as romantic. I'm not familiar enough with Wikipedia to edit this myself, but I think it would be wise to include a Classical box along with the existing romantic box. Pianoguy 01:15, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree with you that Beethoven was both Classical and Romantic. There is no more pivotal figure.  It seems, though, that there is not an equivalent Template:Classicism, since that template is quite different; and I don't see a template on either Mozart or Haydn, for example.  (Are these templates helpful?  What do other people think?  I thought it was nice to be able see links to Romanticism and its followers in the other arts, but isn't it necessarily POV to pick which names go on the template?)  Antandrus  (talk) 01:48, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I didn't realize there wasn't a Classicism template. Perhaps there should be one... I have no idea how that process works.  I think the template is helpful, especially for people that aren't familiar with music history; it provides a quick overview.  I don't think it's POV so long as the names on the template are widely agreed-upon; I don't think anyone is going to cry POV when somebody says that Schumann is a Romantic composer. Pianoguy 03:29, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * What I'm more concerned about is that the presence of the chart seems to deny the classical implications in Beethoven's music, and I forsee a generation of highschoolers writing reports with this article and saying, "Beethoven was a Romantic composer" which doesn't capture the entire truth. Anyways, I think we can both agree that this article is quite bad in general, while most of the glaring inaccuracies have been removed, there just isn't much information in it that is useful.  This is distressing to me; it seems that the Wikipedia Beethoven article should be one of the most important in the encyclopedia.  Some day I'll try to get around to a rewrite... Pianoguy 03:29, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Several interesting issues here, some of which should properly be discussed elsewhere -- such as "who goes on the template". While no one will seriously claim that Schumann was not a romantic composer, the problem arises with "why not Clara Schumann?  Why not Bruckner?  Why not ..."  But that's a discussion for the template page.  Regarding the romanticism vs. classicism templates:  it's misleading not to have both, but there is not an equivalent classicism template (the one we have is jarringly different).  Regarding the article:  it's been bugging me for three years.  We need a greater depth of coverage, with a well-cited and thorough survey of critical approaches to Beethoven over the last two hundred years, and it's not an easy job to do this.  I think for most people it's ... easier to argue about infoboxes and templates, than get a pile of Beethoven biographies and critical works, and start writing.  The meta-issue is that it is becoming harder in general to write Wikipedia as the articles become more and more mature and stable, even when they're not very good.  Have you looked at the Schubert article recently?  It's still full of the original 1911 Britannica prose, even after all these years of editing.  Antandrus  (talk) 03:46, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Many good points. I agree with the statment that it's easier to argue about templates than rewrite the article, and I hold myself guilty in that regard.  Honestly, my years as a wiki editor have rather disillusioned me to the entire process- one has to wonder what is the point of writing a wiki on Beethoven when there is already so much quality information out there that is easily accessible- Groves, Solomon, etc.  This is stuff written by paid people who are much more learned than we are, so it is silly to suppose that our work can ever match theirs, unless we copy it word for word, which is plagarism.  Plus, they don't have to deal with vandalism, or people with agendas, or idiots in general.  My goal as a wiki editor, I think, is just to police the articles and make sure there is an effort at fairness and no blatant inaccuracies.
 * That said, maybe I will try sometime this summer to sit down with a stack of biographies as you suggested and do a major rewrite. The last bio I read was by David Wyn Jones, it doesn't seem widely known.  I found it well-written and very compact, if a little dry.  It's been a while since I've read the Solomon, I'll definitely have to look over that again.  Is the Thayer still used or is it considered outdated now?  The one I am most excited about, though, is the forthcoming one by Jan Swafford, who wrote really thick biographies of Brahms and Ives.  He has a really unique style which I really enjoy, but the publisher hasn't said how long it will be until that book comes out but assures me he is hard at work on it.  If you have any other suggestions that I should look at I'd love to hear them. Pianoguy 21:01, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

"But in 1804, when Napoleon's imperial ambitions became clear, Beethoven crossed out Napoleon's name on the title page."

I think he actually tore out and crumpled up the title page. You might want to quote what he said about Napoleon, too, having given way to the seduction of power and betrayed the ideals for which he had supposedly stood. Letumbillon 01:10, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

What about the ideals of the Enlightenment in Eroica? I think this piece is the best example.

 * He actually crossed out Napoleon's name so severely that it wore through the page I believe (I think this is what M. Solomon writes anyway--can't give you a reference right now, though). W.M. O'Quinlan 23:30, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Freelance
I'm not sure if the statement "was one of the first composers to work freelance" is a good idea. It is mostly true, but Mozart was probably the very first freelance composer. Rewrite maybe? Pianoguy 16:17, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Typo to correct
In the "His Music" section under item #1, the word "sonatas" is misspelled as "sonats." Can someone more experienced with editing correct this? Ddunkman 18:40, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I went to do this, but couldn't find that misspelling anywhere - has it already been corrected? TMaster 18:23, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Scarlatti as well.

Songs?
Beethoven's work should not be reffered to as 'songs' as they so often are in the analysis of the Piano Sonatas...which are obviously not songs.Piano sonatas are clearly not songs.
 * Can you point out where you see this happening? I do not see it in the article.  Antandrus  (talk) 21:00, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The new infobox
I'd like to make a case for deleting the recently installed infobox. User:EldKatt has, in various talk pages, wisely pointed out that a reader of an article should be expected to read the article. If we put straightforward information like life dates in the first line of the text, that's sufficient to make it prominent. Cheers, Opus33 23:27, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * It makes the portrait of Beethoven small and difficult to see.
 * It doesn't contain any information that isn't already in the first two lines of the article.
 * I agree that the infobox should be removed. I believe it detracts from the article, rather than enhancing it. Mak (talk)  23:41, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I also agree with Opus33. I have just removed it again.  The template was worryingly given the background colour corresponding to "non_performing_personel", and equally disconcertingly has blank places for "label" and "associated acts".  Even the clearest bits of Beethoven's biography (such as his occupation and date of birth) require somewhat nuanced presentation, and no template can provide for that.  --RobertG ♬ talk 12:37, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I have modified the infobox to display some of the nuances described by RobertG. If anyone has further suggestions as to something that needs clarification in the infobox, please say so here or in the other discussion below on dates and places of birth and death. - cgilbert(talk 06:38, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

 * If you change the infobox, you'll have to do the same with all the other composers! -- pizza1512  Talk  Autograph 04:57, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Cause of death
There is heavy speculation on what killed LvB, but suggests he had cirrhosis. JFW | T@lk  15:20, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * More specifically, I've heard that he had cirrhosis of the liver. Ittan 14:52, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

From the autopsy report, quoted in Thayer: "The liver appeared shrunk up to half its proper volume, of a leathery consistence and greenish-blue color, and was beset with knots, the size of a bean, on its tuberculated surface, as well as in its substance; all its vessels were very much narrowed and bloodless." Dr Joseph Wagner, 1827. That seems to support the liver cirrhosis. On the other hand his kidneys were in poor shape too: "every one of their calices was occupied by a calcareous concretion of a wart-like shape and as large as a split pea." This seems to suggest kidney stones. --Stephen Burnett 15:32, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Kidney stones aren't generally fatal though.  bibliomaniac 1  5  01:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Depends. Kidney stones lists several famous people who did, mostly when surgery was still in a fairly primitive state. --Stephen Burnett 22:20, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I read in several bios that he died during a thunderstorm and that the friend who was then on watch over him saw Beethoven, who had apparently been sleeping, half-rise convulsively and shake an angry finger at heaven. Some sources even say he alluded to the idea of taking fate by the horns in his last moments. Letumbillon 01:07, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

This recent article speculates that Beethoven was inadvertently poisoned with lead by his physician: --Dar 21:00, 28 August 2007 (UTC)DSteckelberg

How he died
He died a very sad death, and whenever i think about it, i want to cry. After he came back from his brothers, he had caught pneumonia, because he hitched a ride on the back of a cart (His brother was a REAL cheepskate) He caught pneumonia, because it was soking rain outside, and back then, Pneumonia was more serious (they didn't have medicines, so no doctor could cure him(also, he hated doctors(He hated doctors, because when he was smaller, they couldn't help his hearing))) So when he got back, he was so cold, and his clothes were so soaked, he got even worse. He had to lay in bed for weeks! Here is the part, that for some reason, isn't on the internet. The night he died. I mean, its on the net, but not THESE details. Listen: He was laying in a bed one stormy night, with all of his dearest friends around him(Kristoff, Kristoff's mom, etc.) And he was starting to close his eyes, when he did something that sent a Chill down everybody's spine. There was a crack of thunder, and he shook his fist at it, like he was mad at it,And Quoted:

"I shall hear again!!"

He then took a long, deep breath, and closed his eyes. Sad, but Creepy (in a sad way) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.177.164.242 (talk) 20:44, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Place of birth & death
He was actually born in the Electorate of Cologne, Holy Roman Empire, and died in the Holy Roman Empire too. Should we put that in the infobox, or put "present-day" Germany & Austria? Biruitorul 00:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * You make a good point, and this is yet another reason why I don't think we should have an infobox. The problem with using them on non-contemporary figures is that the box makes an assumption that people are from a "country", or, in the case of Beethoven, that he composed in "genre, classical", which is how CDs may be classified in a record-shop, but which has no place in an encyclopedia.  Composers need a more nuanced presentation than is possible in an infobox.  Please see the thread above entitled Talk:Ludwig_van_Beethoven. However I may be in the minority in my view.  Antandrus  (talk) 01:27, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Given that the infobox isn't especially informative, that two pieces of information in it are arguably inaccurate, and that the rather better-developed German version of this article can do without a box, I wouldn't mind seeing it removed. Biruitorul 00:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I've deleted it. Salvage any lost information from the history. There was a discussion of this on Chopin's article as well — there was clear consensus that an infobox on composers like them do not present any new information, and sum up a complicated person in too brief a manner. ALTON   .ıl  04:22, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * it was i who put the infobox there, and i'm a bit disappointed you unilaterally decided to remove it with the courtesy of message. i further don't see how you consider three people over a span of four months a consensus. --emerson7 | Talk 04:39, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Please consider the reason why an infobox is presented on a page like this. An infobox puts vital information in a concise, easy table for cursory readers to glean. In this case, an infobox is not ideal because the birth date, first of all, is contested, and it does not provide sufficient information about the peculiarities of his actual birth. Moreover, the rest of the information is misleading and confusing to those who are not musicians — Beethoven uniquely straddles both Classical and Romantic eras in music, and putting both there means nothing to those who don't understand his chronological ambiguity. The "Occupations" row is misleading, apparently stating Beethoven's work was part of some job or career. The "Notable Instruments" section still confuses me; is it a list of instruments he owned? Why is that info pertinent in summarizing his life into a small box? Futhermore, I'm not obligated to personally message you about it, because you do not own that edit, although you are perfectly validated in adding it back, and contributing to this new discussion. ALTON   .ıl  05:07, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Note: Choose your duke-out location; they've started a discussion on this very topic here. ALTON   .ıl
 * In response to this discussion, I have modified the infobox as to Biruitorul's suggestion in using "present-day" to modify the country locations of birth and death. - cgilbert(talk 06:35, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Conductor?!
I've deleted the title "conductor" from both the infobox and the lede: In short I believe the term is, in Beethoven's case, an innacurate, misleading anachronism. — Turangalila talk 03:32, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) To call him a "celebrated...conductor" is dubious at best.  A glance at the index of my copy of Maynard Solomon's bio yields 5 total mentions of him conducting, two of which are negative (one mention of his deafness leading to disaster while trying to lead Fidelio (p. 268); one comment that conducting was "...a role for which he had never been well suited." (p. 250)).  Certainly to imply that Beethoven's fame during his lifetime owed as much to conducting as to piano playing is really just flat wrong.
 * 2) I don't recall ever hearing evidence, in Solomon or elsewhere, of Beethoven "conducting" any music but his own.  I've seen other composers called "conductors" on WP, I think erroneously.  I think to avoid sowing confusion a distinction must be made between genuine composer-conductors like Mahler, Bernstein, or Boulez, and composers who occasionally conduct(ed) their own stuff, like Stravinsky or Copland.
 * 3) The title is also anachronistic:  All the scholarship I've seen on the issue indicates that the role of "conductor" as we understand it was, in Beethoven's time, in an embryonic stage, if it existed at all.  Indeed, Beethoven's music was in part responsible for its development as a specialty.  Conducting touches on this, if regrettably briefly.
 * Remove it, but for sure add that info somewhere (that he was an atrocious conductor)! ALTON   .ıl  06:36, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Media box broken
The scroll box in Ludwig_van_Beethoven hides information in the Printable version. As the information is part of the article it should be printable. Should it be replaced with the usual list format? (SEWilco 04:13, 16 April 2007 (UTC))

Infobox problem
IMO this infobox detracts from the article in a simplistic and unhelpful way. Can we have a discussion about this? Thank you. - Kleinzach 23:10, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * IMO, the article looks quite simplistic without it. Cricket02 23:17, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Was it really necessary to kill the picture along with it? Something about babies and bathwater...
 * Only the infobox was moved to this discussion. If you know how to put the picture up by itself that's fine by me. Displaying portraits of composers is a good idea. --Kleinzach 02:49, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I actually think the absence of the infobox & pic only heightens the impression of this page as a set of exemplary reflist, external links, & sound samples, tacked onto an article proper that is, considering the towering subject and huge extant literature, frankly borderline-stubby. I think this debate just distracts from making the actual article better.
 * I think the infobox as currently "trimmed" & updated is a (small) net plus. As I said over at the WPComposers debate, what's so wrong with providing an "At-a-glance"  intro for the novice, supplemental to a good article?  — Turangalila  talk 01:00, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

reset margin I "trimmed" the box a bit more to remove the redundant "Birth Name" and suggest a simple compromise on the birthday issue--another solution would be "c. December 17...". The footnote explains the baptism stuff fine w/o extra text above. — Turangalila talk 01:07, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I have re-added the portrait to the top of the article as it was placed originally before the addition of the infobox. - cgilbert(talk 03:51, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That looks good. --Kleinzach 04:54, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Well now the article is targeted by the "Article Improvement Drive." I'd expect much more conflict about this topic. ALTON  .ıl  22:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, instead of discussion, somebody (not me) just added a new one, filled with anachronistic flags and misinformation about "birthday" "beethoven the 'conductor' " (see above), etc. Sadly, so far the "collaboration drive" doesn't seem to have produced much other than seemingly increased vandalism and just bad edits...oy.  I thought at least someone would come & slap some fact tags around, which would have been helpful...

 * Anyway, the better part of valor even for you anti-infobox crusaders may be to leave one there that's stripped of crap, so as to discourage eager wikipedians from disastrously "improving" the top of the article. For now I replaced the "bad" infobox in the lead with the model from here, which I consider at least benign; we'll see if that too gets "improved"  In the meantime feel free to revert to nothing if you feel you must, but be prepared to fight a sustained rearguard action.— Turangalila   talk  06:34, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Infoboxes are horribly BITEY: the newbie entering the edit window for the first time is immediately confronted by something they can't edit. What is more, an infobox is not helpful for Beethoven, where matters are quite nuanced. Proper writing in the usual way will work better. Moreschi Talk 15:22, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Infoboxes are a standard for almost all wikipedia articles of merit. Don't like it?  Change the guidelines of a start-class article at WikiProject:Biography.  WP:BITE is not an excuse to skip learning wikicoding.  The infobox is correct, factual, and a good piece of layout.  Use it now.  ClaudeReigns 20:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That's utter rubbish. There is no policy or guideline that says we need infoboxes, especially not when they're misleading, as has been the case on many composer articles. Plenty of excellent articles do not have them, Josquin des Prez for one. WP:WPBIO guidelines do not rule the world. And no, it is not correct, it is confusing. Genre: Classical, Romantic? How does that help anyone? It doesn't, it just confuses. Please don't people to "Use it now". That's very poor tone to take with good-faith contributors. There are many sections of Wikipedia where infoboxes are considered either useless, redundant, or detrimental. This particular box is confusing and is redundant to the text, which explains the subtleties of Beethoven's music far better than the box ever will. It's just absurd to try to reduce thousands of analyses of Beethoven's style and genre to the farcical phrase, "Classical, Romantic". Moreschi Talk 14:16, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * User:Moreschi, an infobox is a standard for biographical articles. If you are unhappy with Template:Infobox musical artist you may of course author Template:Infobox Beethoven to present pertinent facts to the novice.  You've not pointed out with any specificity at all which points are "inappropriate" or 'oversimplified'.  You've not attempted a minor edit to correct any particular statement you might disagree with.  This is not the place to challenge the notion of infoboxes as a thing in themselves.  At the risk of sounding like I'm accusing you of disrupting Wikipedia to prove a point, please knock it off.  Blocking my attempt to conform to Wikipedia's standards of excellence with a simple piece of summary layout with non-specific complaints does not show an effort at consensus.  I will continue to revert until you present a rational and specific defense of your actions.  ClaudeReigns 13:08, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * What the devil is this? Kindly assume good faith and take a slightly less condescending term towards the regulars. You've got to be joking. Infoboxes are standard for biography articles? This is rubbish. I've written tons of bios and I've never used an infobox, nor needed one. So have others. For starters, you could see the discussions and consensus and sections at The Composers Project and the Opera one. Infoboxes are not part of our standards of excellence. Accurate information is. I've removed the infoboxes per perfectly rational consensus for this set of articles, and per Wikipedia's standards of excellence to remove inaccurate, misleading, and confusing information. There is no reason why I have to listen to anything WP:WPBIO says, ever, when writing a biography. Moreschi Talk 14:16, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

 * And please do a little research on the people you accuse of POINT violations. Adminstrators who have been here at Wikipedia for well over a year are unlikely to do such things. Moreschi Talk 14:16, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Infoboxes are definitely not obligatory for biographical articles (with good reason). The Biography Project doesn't own this encyclopaedia and states as much in its own guidelines here . Infoboxes are at best redundant, at their all too frequent worst they are disastrous . --Folantin 15:45, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That Paderewski save is just a bad piece of layout. A good piece of layout using all the information without redundancy in a single box is completely doable.  Nobody in opposition cares to make any suggestions about what a GOOD, appropriate and nuanced infobox would look like.  There's a reason for that.  ClaudeReigns 09:09, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No it isn't. It's because human beings like Paderewski fail to fit into neat little boxes. The onus is on the people who want boxes - which are completely redundant and no more than prettification on articles like this - to sort out the problems they create. --Folantin 09:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Straw poll anyone? Josh Holloway  17:27, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I don't see how a straw poll will fix the problems inherent in these boxes. --Folantin 18:15, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

The WikiProject Biography/Infoboxes page explains: ''Certain biography articles have opposition camps on infoboxes. . . . if you are tagging a scientist, academic, or "classical" composer, first ask on the Talk page.'' Of course both the Composers' and the Opera Projects have decided against using them after discussion. In any case there is no infobox for composers, the musical artists' box is for popular musicians. I hope that helps clarify this issue. -- Kleinzach 01:44, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks, I got it. Opposition camps = WP:POINT arising from the self-importance of music scholars (no statement is "appropriate" or nuanced enough to summarize facts about we, the sublime).  I don't care care what admin is going to pucker up for your "camp"... there was a reason I was asked to come here and edit, and it wasn't because this article had a rating appropriate to its notability in WikiProject:Biography.  Quite the opposite.  If you fellow editors are unable to come to a consensus about what are the most notable facts about Ludwig van and lead with them, and are furthermore content to leave all statements ambiguously summarized without much regard to the source of facts, then possibly the only contribution I could possibly make to this page (normally I'd be busy adding sources by now) is to delete non-notable entries in the reams of list-cruft on this page and individual statements which remain completely unattributed.  Hopefully this will enable the editors here to pinpoint exactly what's important about Beethoven.  Never again will I attempt to add an infobox here.  I'll definitely comment against your "camp" wherever possible however, and work diligently to hold the editors here accountable for each and every line.  ClaudeReigns 08:48, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

 * (Uh, could you indent next time? Anyway I've done it for you now.) Opposition camps is not my expression. It's what it says on the Biography Project/Infoboxes page. I have no idea who wrote it. By the way, who was it who specially asked you to come and edit this page? I'm just curious, you are of course welcome here like any other editor. -- Kleinzach 09:58, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks again. The request by User:Pious7 was made via my talk page.  Since we're not directly discussing the Maestro and edits to his page, perhaps you can kill two birds with one stone and drop by.  ClaudeReigns 11:08, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Your comments grow increasingly unpleasant the more you write (note how I spoke disparagingly of your comments, in keeping with WP:NPA). I know it's been a while now, but please, as others have reminded you, assume good faith, and remember that in the end, we all have the same goal: an excellent article. --Milton 07:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Re obscure comment in To-Do List
Meaning the "On IE the Birth name appear as John Winston Lennon". It actually dated from January 15, 2007, by an anon user. Agreed that it was probably vandalism. Thanks, Turangalila, for just getting rid of it. --Lini 03:08, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Merge Life_and_work_of_Ludwig_van_Beethoven ?
This article seems to me to have suffered from having a lot of biographical material either originally placed or moved into the above article in preference to this one. As a result, this article is quite sparse, while the above Life_and_work_of_Ludwig_van_Beethoven is actually longer than this one. To my mind the article bearing the subject's name should be a respectable article in its own right, and in particular should have more in the biographical section.

The problem will be that a straight merge will result in an article that is excessively long, but it would be a shame to lose any of the material in the other article. It seems to me that some of the more specialised stuff in the other article, such as Beethoven's ancestry, or modern interpretations of his illnesses, could be split off into other small articles. The mainstream biographical material (which by the way is lacking in inline citations) could be used here to flesh out the current biography. Opinions, anyone? --Stephen Burnett 10:54, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Both artcles seem to have complicated histories. I've no real objection to making this article significantly longer; my main qualm about a merge is not so much length as the large Attribution and POV problems of the "Life" article; frankly this article doesn't need any more of that.  While the bio here desperately needs filling out, I think I'd prefer a separate, referenced completion, even if smaller and/or slower.  The breakup of "Life and Works" could be a another project--perhaps as part of a rationalization of the whole Beethoven namespace; currently the different articles are too often at cross-purposes...— Turangalila  talk 17:05, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

I think there should be a separate section about the Karl adoption case, which was a huge and drawn-out strain on Beethoven. During the case, as it had done a couple of times before, something else came up that embarassed B a lot. He always pretended to have a disdain for the nobility, yet this issue is a complex one. He had tried several times to pretend that the van ("the") in his name was actually the noble title von. During the Karl case, it was proved that he was definitely not a von, and the publicity dismayed B a lot. This ties in with his numerous infatuations with noble women... I think B's relationship with nobility and the noble needs to be explored more, because it might be significant in his music.

Also, what about when he and Goethe were walking down the street and some royal personage passed by and Goethe bowed and B kept walking...

In the social problems section, you could mention his temper. He once flung a hot bowl of soup in a waiter's face because it wasn't hot enough.

Boys used to throw stones after him as he walked, hunch-shouldered, self-absorboed, morose, down Vienna's streets.

And he was nicknamed, among other less flattering things, Swarthy because of his black hair. His skin, too, was yellow, which might suggest he had had jaundice as a child.

Again, I don't know if all these are notable. But I think some of these details might provide a more complete picture of such an important figure in Western civilisation. Letumbillon 01:19, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

"Music: Overview" section
I placed a POV-section tag in the "Overview" section under "Music". Currently I think this section is a big problem. It's totally unsourced (unfortunately that doesn't make it stick out in this article); its tone is patronizing (very "Music Appreciation class"; I hear Karl Haas in my head); and overall it's a veritable cornucopia of POV. Even ignoring the hagiographical bits it's highly interpretive in the least: How "well-crystallized" was the rondo? It wasn't "elastic" in Mozart? Is the Allegretto of the 7th Symphony really an "ethereal slow movement of mystic glorification"? (maybe on the Klemperer record...) I'd prefer to try and fix the section rather than just kill it, since a cogent discussion of the music beyond just naming the periods and saying how famous it is is important. — Turangalila talk 08:52, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Kerman and Tyson from Grove
Um, guys, I thought we weren't supposed to just cannibalize other reference material. Please cite from other sources besides (essentially) another encyclopedia. I also think that trying to create a free encyclopedia is best achieved by eschewing as much as possible (while highly regarded) the most ridiculously overpriced piece of *ahem* literature in existence, or at least consulting all of its references first and using its synthesis lastly. I understand that the practice is to go to Grove first. But it ain't the Bible. It's a tertiary source. Make sense? ClaudeReigns 17:21, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't get any of that, for I've written whole articles using Grove, but at any rate I'm trying to use it for fairly basic facts and/or very commonly held opinions, not its synthesis. It's very exhaustive and very high-quality, and the articles are written by good people. It's rather reductive to claim that it's "just another encyclopedia", and as for your personal opinion that it's "the most ridiculously overpriced piece of *ahem* literature in existence", that's neither here nor there. There's certainly no reason not to use it to cite basic stuff. Moreschi Talk 17:34, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Grove is a reliable source. Since we are not plagiarising from it, but rather using it as a reliable source of factual information, I don't see the problem.  Antandrus  (talk) 17:37, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Infobox Musical Artist
I've put musical artist infobox on this page, but it has been reverted. I don't see why classical composers should be an exception for infoboxes. I want to put it back, unless there's some reason why I shouldn't do that. --Lošmi 12:15, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

 * See WikiProject_Composers, WikiProject_Biography/Infoboxes, and WP:WPO. Fireplace 13:34, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Health
A book on Beethoven's health seems to have appeared, ISBN 978-0-7735-3190-1. He had a lot of respiratory and digestive problems, and of course his deafness & mood. JFW | T@lk  20:45, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

bipolar disorder
i suggest removing this until a source is provided.Bluebonics 23:00, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Yes the paragraph

"Beethoven frequently treated other people badly, and may have suffered from bipolar disorder, and/or irritability brought on by chronic abdominal pain beginning in his 20s, which has been attributed to his lead poisoning.[13]"

is nonsense. Reiter's article only refers to the last months of Beethoven's life. We know absolutely nothing about the lead poisoning in Beethoven's youth.--Suessmayr (talk) 15:57, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Lead poisoning?
The German Wiki entry on Beethoven notes that modern research indicates he suffered from lead poisoning:

 * Analysen, die das US-amerikanische Argonne National Laboratory in Chicago Anfang Dezember 2005 veröffentlicht hat, bestätigen, dass er von Jugend an unter einer schweren Bleivergiftung litt. Das Labor durchleuchtete einen der kürzlich von kalifornischen Wissenschaftlern identifizierten Schädelknochen Beethovens mit einem modernen Röntgengerät. Anschließend verglich es die Werte mit einem fremden Schädelfragment aus der damaligen Zeit. Demnach litt der große deutsche Komponist wahrscheinlich schon vor seinem 20. Lebensjahr massiv unter dem giftigen Einfluss von Blei.

As I recall, news reports at the time (2005) included informed speculation that the lead may have come from glaze on drinking vessels. Sca 03:40, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * yes, here's one on Yahoo! news: Pathologist: Doctor killed Beethoven -- Mayuresh 11:36, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

The above Wiki report was not attainable today, but the information on the German Wiki comes from the Argon Research Laboratory report 6-Dec-2005 (Contact:Catherine Foster, Phone: +1-630-252-5580) which states that synchrotron (micro) X-ray fluorescence analysis carried out on bone fragments of Beethoven's body (checked for sample identification by DNA analysis) showed the presence of massive amounts of lead. Ref: News for international x-ray analysis community Journal X-ray Spectrometry, January-24-2006, John Wiley and Sons publishers; http://www.nims.go.jp/xray/hot/xrsnews3502.htm This is a scientific proof, which, of course does not tell us where the lead came from. LouisBB (talk) 05:51, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

 * As long as detailed toxicological data have not been published, Prof. Reiter's hypothesis must be considered dubious. There is absolutely no proof that Dr. Ignaz Wawruch treated Beethoven's wound with lead poultices.--Suessmayr (talk) 16:00, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

van Beethoven
If he was German, why is his name always listed van Beethoven? Shouldn't it be von Beethoven. Van is Dutch where von is German. Emperor001 16:33, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Beethoven's father's ancestors were Flemish, this is where van is from. Von, in german, is usually a nobiliary particle ; Beethoven was not noble. Furthermore, van is the way he always signed his letters... I don't think we can contradict the composer himself. Cordially, Kokin 19:50, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Von isn't always for nobility, but thanks. Didn't know he had Flemish ancestory.  All I knew was that he was German.  Emperor001 19:01, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Late String Quartets and/or Piano Sonatas
I know this issue has already been discussed in some form or another elsewhere in the archives, but does anyone know if the middle (e.g. Op.31 and Op.53) and late piano sonatas (e.g. Op.81 and Op.106) are generally considered Classical or Romantic? What about the late string quartets? In my estimation, sonatas such as the Pastoral and the Tempest sound more Romantic than Classical (which is inconsistent with the "Eroica's" common consideration as Beethoven's first "Romantic" work), but the Hammerklavier and his other highly fugal works (e.g. the late string quartets) sound perhaps more Classical or post-Romantic than Romantic. I realize that these categories are neither cut nor dried, but is anyone familiar enough with the relevant literature to know how most scholars categorize these works (if they do at all)? W.M. O'Quinlan 23:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Destroying of conversation books
To which persons does the following passage refer?

"Towards the end of his life, Beethoven's friends competed in their efforts to help him cope with his incapacities,[14] and after his death destroyed many of the conversation books to protect his reputation."

Who else beside Anton Schindler destroyed conversation books? Which friends of Beethoven collaborated with Schindler? The whole absurd sentence should be deleted.--Suessmayr (talk) 16:05, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Orignal research and Beethoven's character.
It's well established that Beethoven was extremely erratic and unreasonable on the matter of his nephew. I'm not going to provide a source because it's such common knowledge across so many sources that it is superfluous to offer one.

The right of challenge is being abused; Wikipedia is becoming a laughing stock. Wikipedia, stand up to the extremists. Tcaudilllg (talk) 22:30, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

 * It isn't "superfluous"; it only means you have lots of choices. Choose one you think particularly appropriate or choose one randomly. TheScotch (talk) 10:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Photo
I've uploaded a photo which may be valuble to the article. Hbar.cc (talk) 00:14, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Innappropiate wording?
From the custody battle section:

"When Karl could stand his ->tyrannical<- uncle no longer"

From the music section:

"Beethoven is acknowledged as one of the ->giants<- of Western classical music"

The first sounds as POV. The second, I can't exactly pin point what it is, but to me, it just sounds bad. Maybe emotionally charged? --W2bh (talk) 17:07, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Some more that I didn't read before:

 * "Equally ->remarkable<- was his use of "source-motives," which recurred in many different compositions." --W2bh (talk) 17:15, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Homeopathy
User:Danaullman has added a section to "illness and health" that strongly implies that the subject took homeopathic medicines, and that they were effective for him. I have no doubt that he may have seen a dr who in addition to his practice was a proponent of homeopathy, but is there any evidence that Beethoven took homeopathic remedies? I also strongly doubt the claim/implication that any homeopathic treatment helped him, unless there is a reliable source that he believed it did. Even then we should only claim that it, in his opinion, helped him, as there is no scientific evidence for the efficacy of homeopathy. Any comments, or shall I just remove these changes? I also note that this user has been asked to avoid editing articles on homeopathy, and this is probably developing into a plug for his book so WP:COI applies. --88.172.132.94 (talk) 17:43, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Quackery was of course rampant in those days when Medical Science was in its infancy. And whether or not the homeopathic medications "worked" (or perhaps even brought about Beethoven's death more rapidly) cannot be said with any certainty based on the experiences of one single subject (any beneficial effects could have been due to the placebo effect or may have been spontaneous - after all, many people do often get better without any treatment). Whether or not Beethoven believed in homeopathy and whether or not they worked for him does not seem to be very relevant for this article and I agree that this addition is probably more like a plug for this editor. I would not object to a deletion at all. --Crusio (talk) 18:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It's obviously undue weight in an article this size. Delete. --Folantin (talk) 18:08, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd remove it but for some reason I can't, I can only view source. As soon as that's gone I'll revert the changes --88.172.132.94 (talk) 18:53, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I've removed it myself per WP:UNDUE. The article has been semi-protected - so IPs can't edit. --Folantin (talk) 18:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Strongly agree with you guys. The article should be about Beethoven the composer, and his music, and the addition seems to be more about how homeopathic medicines allegedly helped Beethoven than anything else.  This is a pretty clear case of undue weight.  Thanks, Antandrus  (talk) 00:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

 * There are several reasons that I think that the information about Braunhofer is important here. It is known that Beethoven had certain health problems, not just hearing problems, that influenced his music.  He was even known to have put his irregular heart beat to music.  I referenced a book by Hayden, which, by the way, was very favorably reviewed by the New England Journal of Medicine and in Nature Medicine, that highlighted the fact that he considered almost all of his doctors to be "asses."  However, he had a special and good relationship in Braunhofer, so much so that he dedicated two of his canons to him.  I do not want to debate the validity of homeopathy here, but the bottomline is that, according to his famous "Conversation Books" (some of which have only recently been translated into English), Beethoven had a real appreciation for this doctor (Beethoven refers to him as "My esteemed friend" in his letters).  I also reference a new book by F. Mai which was published by McGill-Queen's University Press.  It would seem that this body of information is just the type that is NPOV and of special interest to wiki-readers.DanaUllman 02:14, 10 January 2008 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Danaullman (talk • contribs)

 * Maybe stuff about his views about doctors, and his special relationship with this one, should be included. This should be debated here first. However, any claims that he took homeopathic medicine need to be backed up, and any claims that he attributed any recovery to homeopathy also needs to be backed up, with specificity. The doctor might never have given him homeopathic treatments for all we know. Be aware of WP:SYN. Also, the section added was far too long for such a trivial fact: famous person in history took homeopathic pills, maybe. Since you are heavily involved in researching the history of famous people and homeopathy, perhaps you shouldn't edit the article space directly when editing pages such as these with homeopathic content. --RDOlivaw (talk) 12:07, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

 * First, I am sorry that several of the people making comments here have little or no knowledge of the life of Beethoven, and instead, they simply seek to UNDO what scholarly writing that I do in various articles. RDOLivaw seems to be one such person.  S/he is also 147.171.255.159 and 147.171.255.140, and s/he has a strong POV, rarely provides NPOV references, and primarily seeks to UNDO the NPOV references I provide. My writing at this site is FULL of direct references to NPOV source material, and they link to the specific pages in Beethoven's "Conversations Books" (RDOLivaw seems to be not familiar with these documents). Unless you read the source material that I have cited and found that it is incorrect, please acknowledge that you are working in ignorance. Please note that I do not simply "claim" that Beethoven took homeopathic medicines, I show it to be true. Please also note that I purposefully choose not to reference my new book on famous people who used homeopathy due to COI.  Dana Ullman Talk 15:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi, yes I have previously been those two IPs - as I told Dana this morning on his talk page. I registered an account today after realising that my IP address was not static. My edits speak for themselves, however that is highly irrelevant here. I agree with the content of the two posts below, and stand by my comment above. --RDOlivaw (talk) 16:10, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Nobody here actually cares whether Beethoven did use homeopathic medicines or not. Doubtless he did if you say so. The issues here is one of article balance and Undue weight. Might I suggest, in a similar fashion to Death of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, a separate article for this? Beethoven's medical history (or some vaguely similar title, at any rate). Just please be careful to avoid content forking. Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 15:17, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed.You need to read Wikipedia policy on undue weight to understand the objections to the inclusion of this information. The point is not whether this material is true or reliably sourced, it's about whether its inclusion is appropriate in a basic article of this length. It might be worth a paragraph in a book-length biography of Beethoven, for instance, but certainly not in a short, general encyclopaedic article like this. Beethoven is famous as a composer, not as a consumer of medicines. I hope this makes things a bit clearer. --Folantin (talk) 15:21, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Everyone above (except Fonantin) is not a regular contributor to this article on Beethoven. Instead, these other people follow me around to undo any reference to homeopathic medicine that I provide. I would like to ask people who have contributed to this article on Beethoven in the past to provide comment on whether the information I previously provided is of use (or not).  I welcome whatever comments you have.  I certainly recognize that Beethoven was a musician and not a consumer of medicines, but his health and his deafness influenced his music and his life.  I inserted the information about Beethoven's health under the sub-category "Illness and Death" because this section commanded more information about his health in the years just prior to his passing.  I am not saying (or implying) that any treatment helped his deafness (nothing did), but Beethoven's experiences with Braunhofer has recently been uncovered by Professor Mai of the University of Ottawa, and this information did seemingly benefit Beethoven greatly (he was suffering from internal bleeding at the time).  The fact that Beethoven dedicated two canons to this doctor seems to carry some weight. Dana Ullman Talk 22:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

 * How sure are you about that? Antandrus (talk) 23:38, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

 * I stand corrected...and thank you, Antrandrus, for correcting me...and thanks for introducing me to wikidashboard. You have provided many edits to this site, as Moreschi has also done some good work. That said, do any other contributors to this article have an opinion on whether the information on Braunhofer carries weight or not? Dana Ullman Talk 01:11, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Hi Dana. I think Moreschi makes a good suggestion above; the kind of information you wish to include merits a mention in a detailed article about Beethoven's health and illnesses. If you study the history of the Beethoven article -- I've been following it for about four years -- you will see that we tend to spin off "satellite" articles when sections begin to contain too much detail, i.e. overbalance the article.  I don't know myself whether or not homeopathic medicines played a role in Beethoven's treatment, and I'll take your word for it, especially since I'm aware of the importance of Hahnemann around this time -- but you may wish to write a detailed account of Beethoven's health, using all available sources (and being careful not to give undue weight to homeopathy, since I see it is your interest).  Please also look at the Life and work of Ludwig van Beethoven, which was a previous spinoff.  Best, Antandrus  (talk) 01:25, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Biographical infobox added to this article without discussion here first
A biographical infobox has been added to this article by CenturionZ 1 without prior discussion here. (It describes Beethoven as a 'freelance'.) --Kleinzach (talk) 03:12, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm removing it for discussion, as done in April 2007. Thank you. --Kleinzach (talk) 03:17, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * My apologies for removing the picture - that was unintentional. --Kleinzach (talk) 04:34, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

I have removed the freelance designation; kept remaining parameters as they seem uncontroversial. --TrustTruth (talk) 18:00, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Unbalanced parenthesis!
The beginning of the article reads "(English ; German, (December 16, 1770 – March 26 1827)". The programmer in me finds this very disturbing, as the brackets are unbalanced! I've looked far back in the edit history and it isn't a recent change. Is this really the way it is supposed to be written? Foolip (talk) 15:02, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Fixed it! Feel free to make changes like this on your own.  If someone disagrees we can discuss it here, but seemed like obviously in need of some solution.  -- Myke Cuthbert (talk) 20:08, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 19:59, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ludwig van Beethoven/Archive 3


text:
Violin Sonata No. 5 (Beethoven)

The Violin Sonata No. 5 in F major, Op. 24, is a four movement work for violin and piano by Ludwig van Beethoven. It was first published in 1801. The work is commonly known as the Spring Sonata (Frühlingssonate), although the name "Spring" was apparently given to it after Beethoven's death. The sonata was dedicated to Count Moritz von Fries, a patron to whom Beethoven also dedicated two other works of the same year—the String Quintet in C major, Op. 29 and the Violin Sonata No. 4—as well as his later Symphony No. 7 in A major.

The autograph manuscript of the sonata is preserved in the Austrian National Library.

Origin
Beethoven initially intended to pair this work with his Violin Sonata No. 4, Opus 23, and the two sonatas complement each other in both key and character. However, the two were not published together and thus have different opus numbers. The reason for the separation is unknown.

Structure
The work is in four movements: 1. Allegro

2. Adagio molto espressivo

3. Scherzo: Allegro molto

4. Rondo: Allegro ma non troppo

The entire sonata takes approximately 22 minutes to perform.

title: Violin Sonata No. 5 (Beethoven)


text:
Barratry (common law)

Barratry (, from Old French ("deceit, trickery")) is a legal term that, at common law, described a criminal offense committed by people who are overly officious in instigating or encouraging prosecution of groundless litigation, or who bring repeated or persistent acts of litigation for the purposes of profit or harassment.

Although it remains a crime in some jurisdictions, barratry has frequently been abolished as being anachronistic and obsolete.

If barratrous litigation is deemed to be for the purpose of silencing critics, it is known as a strategic lawsuit against public participation (SLAPP). Jurisdictions that otherwise have no barratry laws may have SLAPP laws.

Australia
In Australia, the term barratry is predominantly used in the first sense of a frivolous or harassing litigant. The concept has fallen into disuse in Australia.

New South Wales
The offence of being a common barrator was abolished in New South Wales by Section 4A of the Maintenance, Champerty and Barratry Abolition Act 1993.

Victoria
The offence of being a common barrator was abolished in Victoria by section 2 of the Abolition of Obsolete Offences Act 1969.

Canada
In Canada, barratry, alongside all common law offences except contempt of court and contempt of Parliament, was abolished by the 1953 consolidation of the Criminal Code.

England and Wales
In England and Wales the common law offence of being a common barrator was abolished by section 13(1)(a) of the Criminal Law Act 1967.

History
Being a common barrator was an offence under the common law of England. It was classified as a misdemeanor. It consisted of "persistently stirring up quarrels in the Courts or out of them". It is uncertain whether, in the ordinary way, persons charged with commission of the offence were dealt with by indictment.

In 1966, the Law Commission recommended for the offence to be abolished. It said that there had been no indictments for this offence for "many years" and that, as an indictable misdemeanor, it was "wholly obsolete". Its recommendation was implemented by the Criminal Law Act 1967.

Scotland
In Scots law, barratry referred to the crime committed by a judge who is induced by bribery to pronounce judgment.

United States
Several jurisdictions in the United States have declared barratry (in the sense of a frivolous or harassing litigant) to be a crime as part of their tort reform efforts. For example, in the U.S. states of California, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and Washington, barratry is a misdemeanor. In Texas, barratry is a misdemeanor on the first conviction, but a felony on subsequent convictions.

 * California Penal Code Section 158: "Common barratry is the practice of exciting groundless judicial proceedings, and is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail not exceeding six months and by fine not exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000)."
 * California Penal Code Section 159: "No person can be convicted of common barratry except upon proof that he has excited suits or proceedings at law in at least three instances, and with a corrupt or malicious intent to vex and annoy."
 * Revised Code of Washington 9.12.010: "Every person who brings on his or her own behalf, or instigates, incites, or encourages another to bring, any false suit at law or in equity in any court of this state, with intent thereby to distress or harass a defendant in the suit, or who serves or sends any paper or document purporting to be or resembling a judicial process, that is not in fact a judicial process, is guilty of a misdemeanor; and in case the person offending is an attorney, he or she may, in addition thereto be disbarred from practicing law within this state."
 * Virginia laws on barratry, champerty, and maintenance were overturned by the Supreme Court of the United States in NAACP v. Button 371 U.S. 415 (1963).
 * Vermont Statutes Title 13, § 701: "A person who is a common barrator shall be fined not more than $50.00 and become bound with sufficient surety for his or her good behavior for not less than one year."

title: Barratry (common law)