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Arnold Schoenberg

Arnold Franz Walter Schoenberg [originally Schönberg] (13 September 1874 – 13 July 1951) was an Austrian-born composer, music theorist, teacher, writer, and painter. He is widely considered one of the most influential composers of the 20th century. He was associated with the expressionist movement in German poetry and art, and leader of the Second Viennese School. As a Jewish composer, Schoenberg was targeted by the Nazi Party, which labeled his works as degenerate music and forbade them from being published. He emigrated to the United States in 1933, becoming an American citizen in 1941.

1900s

 * An artistic impression is substantially the resultant of two components. One what the work of art gives the onlooker — the other, what he is capable of giving to the work of art.
 * "An Artistic Impression" (1909) in Style and Idea (1985), p. 189

 * Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value. … Unqualified judgment can at most claim to decide the market-value — a value that can be in inverse proportion to the intrinsic value.
 * "An Artistic Impression" (1909) in Style and Idea (1985), p. 190

 * Although our "gentle air" cannot improve the way hate and envy look, it does seem not to encourage firmness and decision. All is compromise; caution and refinement are everywhere. Everything has to "make a good impression" — whether or not it is any good: the impression is the main thing.
 * "About Music Criticism" (1909), in Style and Idea (1985), p. 196

1910s

 * I have just read your book [On the Spiritual in Art] from cover to cover, and I will read it once more. I find it pleasing to an extraordinary degree, because we agree on nearly all of the main issues..
 * In a letter to Wassily Kandinsky, 18 Dec. 1911; as quoted in Schönberg and Kandinsky: An Historic Encounter, by Klaus Kropfinger; edited by Konrad Boehmer; published by Routledge (imprint of Taylor & Francis, an Informa Group company), 2003, p. 15-16 note 49

 * Now we will throw these mediocre kitsch-mongers into slavery, and teach them to venerate the German spirit and to worship the German God.
 * Arnold Schoenberg, in a letter to Alma Mahler, 1914 (after the outbreak of the First World War); as quoted in "Impressions of War" by Philip Clark, The Gramophone, 4 August 2014
 * Schoenberg's quote regarding: 'the bourgeois tendencies of musical reactionaries such as Stravinsky and Maurice Ravel'

1920s

 * There are no more geniuses, only critics.
 * "Those Who Complain about the Decline" (1923), in Style and Idea (1985), p. 203

 * Hauer looks for laws. Good. But he looks for them where he will not find them.
 * "Hauer's Theories" (Notes of 9 May 1923), in Style and Idea (1985), p. 209

 * I find above all that the expression, "atonal music," is most unfortunate — it is on a par with calling flying "the art of not falling," or swimming "the art of not drowning."
 * "Hauer's Theories" (Notes of November 1923), in Style and Idea (1985), p. 210

 * If music is frozen architecture, then the potpourri is frozen coffee-table gossip... Potpourri is the art of adding apples to pears…
 * quote from Glosses on the Theories of Others (1929); also in Style and Idea (1985), p. 313-314

1930s

 * My work should be judged as it enters the ears and heads of listeners, not as it is described to the eyes of readers.
 * As quoted in an interview with José Rodriguez (c. 1936) in Schoenberg (1971) by Merle Armitage, p. 143

 * I see the work as a whole first. Then I compose the details. In working out, I always lose something. This cannot be avoided. There is always some loss when we materialize. But there is compensating gain in vitality.
 * As quoted in an interview with José Rodriguez (c. 1936) in Schoenberg (1971) by Merle Armitage, p. 149

1940s

 * There is a great Man living in this country — a composer. He has solved the problem how to preserve one's self and to learn. He responds to negligence by contempt. He is not forced to accept praise or blame. His name is Ives.
 * Note of 1944; as quoted in the Charles Ives profile at Decca Classics

 * ...if it is art, it is not for all, and if it is for all, it is not art.
 * from New Music, Outmoded Music, Style and Idea (1946); as quoted in Style and Idea (1985), p. 124

 * I believe that he (Strauss) will remain one of the characteristic and outstanding figures in musical history. Works like Salome, Elektra and Intermezzo, and others will not perish.
 * Arnold Schoenberg, (1946); as quoted in A Schoenberg reader - Documents of a life, edited by Joseph Auner, Yale University Press 2003, page 316-17

Undated

 * I have never seen faces, but because I have looked people in the eye, only their gazes.
 * As quoted in "The Red Gaze"' in Expressionism (2004) by Norbert Wolf, p. 92

 * My music is not lovely.
 * Quoted by Theodor Adorno in his essay "Art and the Arts", 1966, reproduced in Clausen 2008, 387).

 * My music is not modern, it is merely badly played
 * Genette, Gérard. 1997. Immanence and Transcendence, translated by G. M. Goshgarian. p. 102

 * "My works are 12-tone compositions, not 12-tone compositions
 * Stuckenschmidt, Hans Heinz. 1977, in Schoenberg: His Life, World and Work; translated from the German by Humphrey Searle. p. 349.

 * I was never revolutionary. The only revolutionary in our time was Strauss!"
 * Schoenberg, Arnold. 1975, in Style and Idea: Selected Writings of Arnold Schoenberg. Edited by Leonard Stein, with translations by Leo Black. p. 137

 * I am delighted to add another unplayable work to the repertoire.
 * On his Violin Concerto (Op. 36), as quoted in Schoenberg (1971) by Merle Armitage, p. 149

Quotes about Schoenberg

 * A regular Friday audience, 90 percent feminine and 100 percent well-bred, sat stoically yesterday through thirty minutes of the most cacophonous world premiere ever heard here - the first performance anywhere of a new Violin Concerto by Arnold Schoenberg. Yesterday's piece combines the best sound effects of a hen yard at feeding time, a brisk morning in Chinatown and practice hour at a busy music conservatory. The effect on the vast majority of hearers is that of a lecture on the fourth dimension delivered in Chinese.
 * Anonymous reviewer, Philadelphia Record (1940), as quoted in Lexicon of Musical Invective: Critical Assaults on Composers Since Beethoven's Time (1965) by Nicolas Slonimsky, p. 163

 * In your works, you have realized what I, albeit in uncertain form, have so greatly longed for in music. The independent progress through their own destinies, the independent life of the individual voices in your compositions, is exactly what I am trying to find in my painting.
 * Wassily Kandinsky, in a letter to Arnold Schoenberg, 18 Jan. 1911; as quoted in Schonberg and Kandinsky: An Historic Encounter, by Klaus Kropfinger; edited by Konrad Boehmer; published by Routledge (imprint of Taylor & Francis, an Informa Group company), 2003, p. 9

 * At the moment there is a great tendency in painting to discover the 'new' harmony by constructive means whereby the rhythmic is built on an almost geometric form.. .I am certain  that our own modern harmony is not to be found in the 'geometric' way, but rather in the anti-geometric, anti-logical way. And this way is that of 'dissonance in art', in painting, therefore, just as much as in music. And 'today's' dissonance in painting and music is merely the consonance of 'tomorrow'.
 * Wassily Kandinsky, in a letter to Arnold Schoenberg, 18 Jan. 1911; as quoted in Schonberg and Kandinsky: An Historic Encounter, by Klaus Kropfinger; edited by Konrad Boehmer; published by Routledge (imprint of Taylor & Francis, an Informa Group company), 2003, p. 9

 * [Schonberg's] music leads us into a realm where musical experience is a matter not of the ear but of the soul alone, and at this point the music of the future begins.
 * Wassily Kandinsky, 1911; in Concerning the Spiritual in Art, transl. Michael T. Sadler (1914); reprint. New York: Dover, 1977), p. 17

 * Can you imagine a music in which tonality (that is, the adherence to any key) is completely suspended? I was constantly reminded of Kandinsky's large composition which also permits no trace of tonality.. ..and also of Igor Kandinsky's 'jumping spots' in hearing this music [of Schoenberg], which allows each tone sounded to stand on its own (a kind of white canvas between the spots of color). Schoenberg proceeds from the principle that the concepts of consonance and dissonance do not exist at all. A so-called dissonance is only a more remote consonance – an idea which now occupies me constantly while painting.. - note 6
 * Franz Marc, in a letter of 14 Jan. 1911 to August Macke; as quoted in Schönberg and Kandinsky: An Historic Encounter, by Klaus Kropfinger; edited by Konrad Boehmer; published by Routledge (imprint of Taylor & Francis, an Informa Group company), 2003, p. 10 - note 6
 * written, shortly after Franz Marc visited a concert of Schoenberg's music on 11 Jan. 1911 with Franz Marc, Alexej von Jawlensky, Gabriele Münter and others - they played these compositions, Schoenberg wrote in 1907 and 1909: his second string quartet and the 'Three piano pieces'

 * In fact, the influence of Schoenberg may be overwhelming on his followers, but the significance of his art is to be identified with influences of a more subtle kind - not the system, but the aesthetic, of his art. I am quite conscious of the fact that my Chansons madécasses are in no way Schoenbergian, but I do not know whether I ever should have been able to write them had Schoenberg never written.
 * Maurice Ravel; as quoted by Orenstein, Arbie. 1975. Ravel: Man and Musician. p. 126

 * Richard Strauss on Schoenberg, written by Schoenberg himself: "Dear Sir, I regret that I am unable to accept your invitation to write something for Richard Strauss's fiftieth birthday. In a letter to Frau Mahler (in connection with Mahler Memorial Fund) Herr Strauss wrote about me as follows: 'The only person who can help poor Schoenberg now is a psychiatrist ...". "I think he'd do better to shovel snow instead of scribbling on music-paper...'
 * Schoenberg, in a letter to an unknown correspondent, Berlin, 22 April 1914.
 * It is in fact not clear whether Strauss really wrote this. Alma Mahler was a highly unreliable source when it came to what Strauss wrote in letters to her. Strauss was always highly supportive to Schoenberg, even though their musical philosophies were so different.

title: Arnold Schoenberg


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Atonality

Atonality, musical technique

 * I find above all that the expression, 'atonal music,' is most unfortunate--it is on a par with calling flying 'the art of not falling,' or swimming 'the art of not drowning.'
 * Arnold Schoenberg, Style and Idea, p. 210.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Atonality


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Sexual orientation

Sexual orientation is an enduring pattern of romantic or sexual attraction (or a combination of these) to persons of the opposite sex or gender, the same sex or gender, or to both sexes or more than one gender. These attractions are generally subsumed under heterosexuality, homosexuality, and bisexuality, while asexuality (the lack of sexual attraction to others) is sometimes identified as the fourth category.

Quotes

 * One of the most distinctive features of the current regime under which we live is the prominence of heterosexuality and homosexuality as central, organizing categories of thought, behaviour, and erotic subjectivity. The rise to dominance of those categories represents a relatively recent and culturally specific development, yet it has left little trace in our consciousness of its novelty. As a result, not only do we have a hard time understanding the logic at work in other historical cultures' organizations of sex and gender, but we have an even harder time understanding our own experiences of sexuality that are not universal.
 * David M. Halperin, How To Do the History of Homosexuality, p. 3. The University of Chicago Press. ISBN 0226314472.

 * Although sexual theorists might like simple, parsimonious, conceptualization of sexual orientation and sexual identity or unidirectional theories of sexual behaviour. Recent studies of various groups in the United States show that simple conceptualizations of sexual orientation and sexual identity development do not accurately reflect the rich variation in behaviour or self-classification.
 * Michaeal R. Stevenson, Reconciling Sexual Orientation, from The Sex Scientists 1998

title: Sexual orientation


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Wikiquote talk:Manual of style

Why are we not using the references function as used on Wikipedia? This method of citation is cleaner than adding a bullet underneath the quotation followed by citation text. Adraeus 21:05, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, the short answer is that the ref/references system is only a few months old, and the bulleting style goes back to the origins of Wikiquote. Inertia is a tremendous factor on an 8,000-article project where only a dozen editors make more than 100 edits a month. A more complete answer would have to await a serious, organized discussion on the issue of sourcing, which has, to date, been fitfully strewn all over talk and project discussion pages. It's probably a good idea to start a discussion on sourcing formats on the talk page of our new draft policy Sourcing. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 21:18, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Links deleted from 'For further information'
Deleted from 'for further information': The following links were pointing to empty pages withing Wikiquote - and the corresponding pages on Wikipedia seem very Wikipedia specific to me. sunny 13:42, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Be bold in updating pages should define your attitude toward page updates.
 * Most common Wikipedia faux pas gives a list of common mistakes and how to avoid them.
 * Editing policy has even more editing guidelines.
 * How does one edit a page will explain the mechanics of what codes are available to you when editing a page, to do things like titles, links, external links, and so on.
 * The perfect stub article shows what you should aim for at a minimum when starting a new article.

Capitalization conventions
I'd like to address a problem between our official policy and our actual practice here at Wikiquote: capitalization conventions. We informally borrow quite a bit of style practice from Wikipedia, but our own manual of style explicitly reiterates the general wiki policy of using sentence case in article titles — that is, capitalize only the first letter in the title and of any proper nouns, but use lowercase for all other words. This has less impact on Wikiquote than Wikipedia, since most article titles are either people's names or the titles of works, both of which are considered proper noun phrases, but there are two inconsistencies that crop up: The first I hope to resolve without much argument, but the second is more complex. — Jeff Q (talk) 08:34, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) Capitalizing non-proper nouns in theme or topic titles (e.g., Theater Musicals and Plays).
 * 2) Varying capitalization within a title or proper name (e.g., Pirates of the Caribbean vs. Pirates Of The Caribbean).

Non-proper nouns
The first issue is simply a matter of not following our own stated, straightforward policy. I've occasionally changed these problem titles whenever I come across them, but new ones keep popping up, probably because the lack of consistency prevents new editors from intuiting the policy by general observation. To combat this, unless people object strongly, I will be aggressively changing such titles over the next few months, as I have time and opportunity, and changing relevant links so that Wikiquote will be internally consistent. (Redirects can remain in place for the foreseeable future so people won't have problems finding articles under their former titles.)

If anyone has a concern about my aggressive conformance editing, please raise your concerns here. Thank you. — Jeff Q (talk) 08:34, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I support this. I can't say that I have noticed it except in relation to Category titles but I expect that it will be one of those things that once it is called to your attention you suddenly notice all around you. Rmhermen 14:36, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I support we capitalize only the first letter of non-proper name pages; articles, categories and documents. Once I created a document not following this way, and later I had troubles to put a link to it correctly. The simpler rule, the better. --Aphaia 12:39, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Irregular proper-noun practices
The second issue is trickier, as different English-speaking countries have different policies on title capitalization. Wikiquote practice seems to be most commonly following what I, as an American, see as typical "American" practice: capitalize every word in the title of a work except articles (a, an, the), conjunctions (e.g., and), and prepositions (e.g., of, with, through). There are, however, many problems with this practice: And that's just following this so-called American capitalization. The Wikipedia:Manual of Style claims that British publishers often do more capitalization than Americans (although I've seen the opposite argument as well), and I'm not sure what English practice is outside these two countries (which, as my Canadian, Australian, and Indian friends are quick to point out, leaves a considerable population). There's also the question of following foreign capitalization practice for foreign titles. (You can get a feel for how different those practices are by looking at List of Mystery Science Theater 3000 episodes, which follows foreign capitalization rules when listing the original foreign-language titles to many "MSTied" films.)
 * Many English prepositions are also adverbs, requiring the editor to determine what part of speech the word is acting as in order to know whether to capitalize it or not.
 * There seems to be an informal practice of capitalizing long prepositions (e.g., through), possibly because people intuit non-capitalization as applying to all short words (since articles and many prepositions are 1-3 letters long).
 * There is also a common habit of not capitalizing some variations on the verb "to be" (e.g., is, are, be). I'm not sure if this is an official variation on English practice, but it may also stem from the short length of these verbs.
 * To avoid all these problems, many publishers of works — possibly most, these days — simply ignore variable capitalization by printing titles in all-uppercase, all-lowercase, or all-capitalized (i.e., every first letter uppercase). Many people feel that this practice should be followed in article titles, especially when their copy of the work follows this practice.
 * Likewise, some artists and companies deliberately play with conventions for artistic effect (e.g., k. d. lang, iPod). People can get very passionate about respecting the intent of these unconventional practices.

I bring this up here because it is a long-term issue, but I'm not particularly concerned about fixing policy on this issue in the near future, since we only have about 3,000 articles right now. However, this may be a good place and time to start such a discussion. I invite the Wikiquote community to post their thoughts on this subject below. Thank you. — Jeff Q (talk) 08:34, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * For proper nouns originally written in latin alphabet, my standpoint is very simple and clear: follow the orignal name in general, but if it is very old (like Medieval works or very early modern) we can modernize it applying the orthography today. As for transcription, I have an opinion only on Japanese: use Hepburn system. I agree with Jeff we don't need to make a hasty decision on this matter, but it is a good time to begin our discussion. --Aphaia 00:35, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * One of the many complications that people don't realize is that publishers (American ones, at least) consider style elements like capitalization, punctuation, and type to be their domain, unless an artist makes a fuss. This means that two people can be holding different modern copies of a work and yelling at each other "it's printed this way!" — "no, it's printed that way!", and both be right. So "original" name capitalization can be hard to determine. Nothing about this subject is as simple as it seems, unfortunately. — Jeff Q (talk) 06:53, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree that if the original name is clear, then we should follow it. If it's not clear, then I do think that we should set a clear policy, and I think that this policy should simply be to use as little capitalization as possible (out of the available options that may be considered correct) - I also think that this simple criterion will generate a style which is in fact the one that's considered the most correct usually in the English speaking world (for example, "the Caribbean", "the University of Colorado", and not "The", etc.) - BTW, this policy is not related only to the title of the articles, but also to what appears in the body of the articles. Sams 09:03, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Punctuation
I would like to express my strongest disagreement with the current (copied from Wikipedia) guidelines on punctuation, particularly with repsect to quotation marks. The guidelines are at least arguably reasonable for WP; not so here. It should be the goal of Wikiquote, so far as quotations from written sources go, to accurately reproduce the text of the original, including typography to the extent feasible. All of the important punctuation marks are suppored in Unicode, and nearly all (the ellipsis is the major exception for English-language published works) have standard HTML character entities. While it is possible that the Mediawiki developers will at some point come through with a simplified wikisyntax for meta-ASCII punctuation, as they are apparently doing for em-dashes, it does us no good unless those characters can be properly and unambiguously represented in existing articles with existing syntax, so that they may be converted to any new syntax (or directly to UTF-8) at a future date. Mangling the original punctuation to flat ASCII (without using character entities) does not serve this goal.

Currently editors are encouraged to wrap each quotation in more (ASCII) quotation marks. This guideline seems to be honored in only a small fraction of Wikiquote articles. I know of no other compendium of quotations which uses such a style (certainly my copy of Simpson's Contemporary Quotations does not) and for good reason: it is confusing. Is this a quotation of a quotation (e.g., dialogue)? This also requires editors (if they are conscientious) to then change the marks used for any internal quotation, if any. Should be really be writing:

 * "'She said, "What?"'"

? (Yes, that's a strawman example.)  I would argue that the guidelines for typography should look more like this:

Written sources
Please do your best to copy the exact style, punctuation, and other typography of the original source. Some important conventions used in printed material, with the appropriate wikisyntax to represent them, can be found in the (insert name of new article). Do not wrap quotations in “quotation marks” (or "ASCII quotation marks" or ‘inverted commas’ or 'apostrophes') unless the entire quotation consists of dialogue, in which case the style of quotation should match that used by the author.

(In the case of a work published in separate editions for North America and Britain, Ireland, or Australia, the style of punctuation may differ significantly between editions. Use the style of the edition you have, and make certain to cite that edition properly, but don't be hurt if another editor "corrects" your punctuation and citations to agree with the edition she has.)

Spoken sources
For speeches, presentations, radio or television broadcasts, and films, try to find out if there is an official written version or transcript which you can cite instead, in which case see "Written sources" above. For sources with no written version available to you, please follow the guidelines for non-sourced quotations, below.

Non-sourced quotations
As with written-sourced material, do not wrap quotations in quotation marks unless the entire quotation consists of a single speaker's dialogue.

(at this point insert a two-paragraph condensation of the existing punctuation guidelines copied from Wikipedia)

 * 121a0012 03:06, May 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * Seems like it was voted on at Quotation_marks, long before I came here. I'm personally in favor of wrapping each quote with quotation marks: it seems more accurate in order to make it clear that it was a direct quote that was said or written by its author. I agree that if you buy a book like the one you mentioned above, then the people who designed the book can make everything look clear without quotation marks by using a uniform layout, but a wiki project on the internet is more messy than a printed book, in terms of random contributors who edit the pages etc., so I think that using quotations marks is better here in order to remove possible doubts about whether something is a direct quote. Seems like there're de facto exceptions, like dialogs, and proverbs it seems... And regarding the quote inside quote issue, I agree that this is a problem, in fact I bumped into it at least twice in quotes that I transcribed - but I didn't change " to ' because I use ' for paraphrases-style quotes inside a quote, so I just used an extra space, like, "She said, "What?" " - not sure what's the best option here, perhaps the simple "She said, "What?"" is best... Sams 11:21, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Personally, I don't really want to get into a debate on punctuation here yet, as there are many pressing problems on Wikiquote that aren't controversial. But I'll just make the following points for now:
 * The most compelling reason to use ASCII quotation marks rather than proper ones is that, for a system that encourages and even requires the participation of the masses, making people use Unicode character entities rather than the keys on their keyboards for something as common as a quote mark is an unreasonable barrier to participation. I'll be happy to switch to “standard quotes” — right after Microsoft takes over world government and mandates new keyboards with these quotes on the keycaps, and the old keyboards have mostly been discarded.
 * I fully agree with the superfluity of requiring quote marks around each quotation when many publishers use their standardized typography to make the quoted material clear (although Sams makes a good point). I think many newer contributors (i.e., since the last vote on this issue) also feel this way, which is one reason there is so little conformity with official policy. If people feel it is time to revisit this issue, it should brought up as a separate topic and voted anew. I, for one, would greatly prefer to put such a vote off until we build up enough policy infrastructure so that our increasing user base doesn't have to get lost between Wikiquote and Wikipedia to figure out what our policies are.
 * The vast majority of Wikiquote users aren't participating in any of these policy discussions. That's their prerogative, of course, but it means that there are currently only a dozen or so people making policy here. Some policy issues can't wait for broad support, but I'm reluctant to press on any issues that require a massive effort to change existing practices, because we just don't have the committed personnel to accomplish the tasks.
 * — Jeff Q (talk) 12:41, 19 May 2005 (UTC)
 * P.S. I notice that, in my Firefox 1.0.3 browser using the MediaWiki Monobook skin, the left and right Unicode double quotes I used above display exactly like ordinary ASCII double quotes; i.e., straight vertical ticks without either left or right slant. I'm not sure why this is, as WebRef's HTML Character Reference page shows them accurately, but it suggests that the MediaWiki developers have chosen a font for the default Monobook skin that defeats 121a0012's admirable goal, at least for some browsers. This problem is much bigger than Wikiquote. — Jeff Q (talk) 12:48, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I would argue that, whether or not they use additional typography to make it clear, the reason that printed compendia of quotations do not use quotation marks is that they are superfluous: someone who consults a book of quotations does not need to see quotation marks to know that everything in the book is a quotation from something else! So it is with Wikiquote: someone who is searching here will  know (or at least have a very good inkling) what to expect from the material.  (If they don't, then there's a problem that should be remedied by editing the boilerplate.  The boilerplate already has problems on the copyright front.)

 * As for Jeff Q's post-scriptum: that's not what I see, and I'm also using the default style. (I have no idea what sort of fonts the style asks for, if any; a good style should use the generic names "serif" and "sans" and let the user's or system's defaults prevail.)  I fully expect that MediaWiki will eventually have wikisyntax support for typeset quotation marks (they are really a necessity to make decent printed output, as is ultimately desired for Wikipedia), probably using ``TeX syntax  which is fairly common and well understood.  If we want to have our work today'' be compatible with whatever is implemented in the future, then it behooves us to make an effort at representing the proper characters in the syntax we have available (HTML character entities), which are at least unambiguous, and can be easily transformed into whatever the official syntax turns out to be without making a hash of unrelated text.  This could be made substantially easier for Joe Random Editor if we had the same "palette" of non-ASCII characters in the edit window as Wikipedia does.  18.26.0.18 21:37, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Speaking as one who spends some time every day adding the most basic wiki markup (e.g., bold, italics, bulleting, indenting, headers) to many quote pages, I would say that believing that knowledge of TeX syntax is "fairly common" among this user base is grossly delusional. I spent 15 years administering and programming Unix systems, and although I learned to hand-code PostScript programs and craft webpages by without HTML tools, I never once felt the need to learn TeX. And most people contributing to Wikiquote are neither programmers nor HTML experts; sure one doesn't expect them to know TeX? I can think of no better way to limit contributions to Wikiquote than to insist that people use fancy markup for basic material. — Jeff Q (talk) 22:55, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

 * TeX markup is already used for equations in Wikipedia, so it's nowhere near as far-out as you describe. In any case, no, I don't expect Wikiquote editors to know TeX, but I do expect MediaWiki programmers, when looking for a syntax to use for proper quotation marks, to use a syntax that both intuitively obvious and already familiar to them.  I expect Wikiquote editors to click on the "Editing help" link at the bottom of the edit page, or to select a character from a palette provided for that purpose, to get the right characters.  Nor, for that matter, do I expect most people to do this—I want to recommend good practice, not require it, and certainly not prohibit it.  If editors want to do the objectively Right Thing, we should facilitate and not obstruct that desire.  Typography matters.  121a0012 02:45, May 20, 2005 (UTC)

Quoting verse
It seems to me that treatment of form for quoting verse is absent from this manual, as song lyrics and poetry are enormously common source materials here. carriage returns are clumsy and spaced too far apart, and reading left to right through forward slashes obscure the rhythm too dramatically. any insights or direction on this matter? Popefauvexxiii 18:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

You can create a new line of verse by using  at the end of a line to separate the lines in a stanza. You can use   at the end of a line to make a break between stanzas, like this:

Do not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light. Though wise men at their end know dark is right,

and so on. - InvisibleSun 18:55, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

cool. what about the bullet though? any way to flush up the lines in front of it? Popefauvexxiii 19:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC) oops, nevermind :) ~

 * One thought. Can you ask developer to make a newfeature to treat such works? If I recall correctly, Wikisource people have been worried about that, and somewhere - perhaps foundation-l or other wikimedia mailing list - proposed such ... like "gallery" for sorting images. Our c0urrent way works for getting apperence we hope but the source is hardly readable. --Aphaia 19:37, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I discussed this somewhere on Wikipedia and/or Meta-Wiki a couple of years ago (I forgot where off-hand), but was greeted with a total lack of interest. However, MediaWiki has evolved since then, and if other projects are clamoring for more flexible display of non-prose text, the developers may be more prepared to consider it. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 03:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I've discovered that the only way I can quote certain poems with indentations is not to do them in bullet fashion, as can be seen  on such pages as George Herbert (especially the "pattern" poems like "The Altar" and "Easter Wings"), William Carlos Williams (see the last two quotes) and W. H. Auden. - InvisibleSun 07:54, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Typography preferences
A recent edit to a page where I had "straightened" the quotes to conform to what used to be standard Wikimedia guidelines prompted me to look at the latest version of the section in the Wikipedia Manual of Style on the matter:

Quotation marks
With quotation marks we split the difference between American and British usage. Though not a rigid rule, we use the "double quotes" for most quotations — they are easier to read on the screen — and use 'single quotes' for nesting quotations, that is, "quotations 'within' quotations".

 * Note: if a word or phrase appears in an article with single quotes, such as 'abcd', the Wikipedia:Searching facility considers the single quotes to be part of the word and will find that word or phrase only if the search string is also within single quotes. (When trying this out with the example mentioned, remember that this article is in the Wikipedia namespace.) Avoiding this complication is an additional reason to use double quotes, for which the difficulty does not arise. It may even be a reason to use double quotes for quotations within quotations.

When punctuating quoted passages, include the punctuation mark inside the quotation marks only if the sense of the punctuation mark is part of the quotation ("logical" quotations). When using "scare quotes", the comma or period always goes outside.

Examples:

 * Arthur said the situation was "deplorable". (Only a fragment is quoted; the full stop [period] is not part of the quotation.)
 * Arthur said, "The situation is deplorable." (The full sentence is quoted; the period is part of the quotation.)
 * Martha asked, "Are you coming?" (Inside when quoting a question.)
 * Did Martha say, "Come with me"? (Outside when there is a non-interrogative quotation at the end of a question.)

Similarly, when the title of an article requires quotation marks in the text (for example, the titles of songs, poems, etc.), the quotation marks should not be bolded in the summary, as they are not part of the title:

"'Jabberwocky' is a nonsense poem by Lewis Carroll."

Longer quotations may be better rendered in an indented style by starting the first line with a colon or by using "" notation (see Direct quotations), which indents both left and right margins. Indented quotations do not need to be marked by quotation marks. Double quotation marks belong at the beginning of each paragraph in a quotation of multiple paragraphs not using indented style, though at the end of only the last paragraph.

Use quotation marks or indentation to distinguish quotations from other text. There is normally no need to put quotations in italics unless the material would otherwise call for italics (emphasis, use of non-English words, etc.).

Look of quotation marks and apostrophes
There are two options when considering the look of the quotation marks themselves:

 * Typographic “text”, ‘text’
 * Typewriter "text", 'text'

As there is currently no consensus on which should be preferred, either is acceptable. However, it appears that historically the majority of Wikipedia articles, and those on the Internet as a whole, follow the latter style. If curved quotation marks or apostrophes appear in article titles, ensure that there is a redirect with straight glyphs.

Never use grave and acute accents or backticks ( `text´ ) as quotation marks or apostrophes.

Comments and ideas
Previously, to keep things simpler, and to avoid some older software problems, there was strong encouragement on the Wikimedia projects to use typewriter apostrophes and quotation marks (' & ") rather than typographical ones (‘ & ’ & “ & ”) but relatively recent changes have occurred in Wikipedia policies, and consideration of what our policies should be are among a few ideas I am currently beginning to deal with a bit more vigorously. I would support the general adoption of typographically correct punctuation as a preference and recommendation, but I don't think it should be insisted upon, nor that there need be any sweeping program of "cleanup" of articles which use the older "typewriter" punctuation. ~ Kalki 03:42, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

I would also propose that styles used should have consistency upon a page, even if not across all pages, and that where they are mixed they should be shifted to all of one style or the other. ~ Kalki 04:29, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Our guidelines for quotations from written sources state that the spelling and punctuation should follow that used in the original source. Historically, most subjects are published in only one medium, and the only variance in the style of quotation marks is attributable to differing countries of publication.  In the future, however, it may not be unusual for a notable subject to be published in multiple media; even for written sources, conventions may still differ among blogs and other Web pages, Usenet and mailing-list posts, traditional dead-tree media, and online analogues of traditional media.  Add to that the possibility that famous authors now frequently appear on radio and television, for which different styles are currently preferred, and the issues multiply.
 * There is also the issue of quotation marks used in non-quotation boilerplate, such as citations. It is traditional that individual works in a collection (like stories in an anthology or articles in conference proceedings) get quotation marks.  I think most editors use "typewriter" punctuation for this.  (If someone can think of a good way to hide this behind a template, while still providing for the common case here of putting bibliographic data in a section heading or intro, it would be worth adopting.)  121a0012 05:06, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

 * A concrete example of a multi-medium subject: Charles Stross is a notable British SF author. His books, as published in Britain, presumably use the British style of quotation marks; likewise the American style when issued by a U.S. publisher.  But in his blog, he uses "typewriter" style, and likewise in his frequent postings to the SF newsgroups.  Our policy currently suggests that this inconsistency should remain—the written source, after all, is authoritative as to what it says.  You seem to be suggesting that editors should change the style of quotations from his blog to match that of his books (UK or US?), or perhaps vice versa.  I don't think this is a good idea.  121a0012 05:15, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

New dates/numbers/measurements section
I've written a first pass at Wikiquote style on these elements, based on current practices. I did this mainly because there has been more activity — and controversy — lately about how to format dates, and whether or not to use preference-based date formatting links or Wikipedia year links. I invite everyone to review it and suggest or make changes as needed. Thank you. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 11:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Interwiki
Please add Hebrew interwiki: he:ויקיציטוט:המדריך לעיצוב דפים Thanks, 84.229.202.114 23:17, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Done. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 00:00, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Source links
I would like to propose adding the following to the section Manual of style: "Adding web links to the sources of quotations can be helpful; these links, however, should not be substitutes to providing source information on the Wikiquote pages themselves. Links may become broken over time. If source information does not accompany a quotation, the quotation will no longer be sourced if the link should fail. In addition, readers should not be required to click web links and scan other pages to discover sources. It is a courtesy as well as a convenience to our readers that this information can be found in our articles." - InvisibleSun 00:12, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Manual of style typo
Please can someone with the necessary rights change anarchonistic to anachronistic? Mirokado 18:04, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅. ~ Ningauble 18:29, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Entire quotes should not be bolded
I've seen the use of bolding for the most salient part of a quote, and that's fine. But I don't see the use of bolding entire quotes, like here. As this seems to occur rather often, I thought I'd ask here, rather than embarking on a ronin's crusade: Could we please add a section on the use of bolding that mentions these two points? Paradoctor (talk) 14:17, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Citation style
I am new here, but have always had quite a bit of interest in Wikiquote. The main issue I'm running into is citations. According to the Manual of Style, Wikiquote uses the same citation style as Wikipedia, but all pages on this project show that this isn't the case. explained to me on my talkpage that citations are always presented in full in the prose itself. According to I would like to discuss this issue in a more public forum such as this. In particular, I would love if multiple different citation styles could be used on Wikiquote, as I definitely understand why you wouldn't want to change all pages on this entire project. Completely disallowing footnotes for sources seems downright absurd to me, but if there is a specific reason why this is done, I would love to know it. Per the very first discussion on this talkpage, it seems to only be done this way on Wikiquote due to initial intertia. Maplestrip (talk) 12:23, 3 October 2019 (UTC)

I do not believe that 's change on a page I created today — — is at all an improvement. In fact, I believe this change makes the entire page more cluttered and makes it more difficult to read. It makes it less clear who is the quoted person and who is the author of the article, and it causes some citations to be doubled and tripled. Maplestrip (talk) 12:23, 3 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I just moved this discussion to Village pump, after being informed that that forum is more active than this talk page. Maplestrip (talk) 07:32, 4 October 2019 (UTC)

More than one citation/source
Some editors are removing citations when there are more than one citation or source for a given quote.

I can understand to remove additional citations when there are too many (more than three or four), but 2 or 3 citations or sources for a quote should be fine.

Additional citations can be used for online verification (if it is a online source), to help the reader find additional context and discussion about a quote. Sometimes the removed source is the source from where the quote was found before added to wikiquote. It is also a matter of fairness to acknowledge this source. --დამოკიდებულება (talk) 10:57, 23 May 2020 (UTC)

Looking for a Template:Quote
With hope for the correct place here for my search, please. The german wikiquote has a Template:´quote´: (translated to english) http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fde.m.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVorlage%3AZitat%23Beispiel Is there one in english, please ? Thank You very much. (I also ask the question there: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wikiquote:Village_pump#Looking_for_this_german_Template:Quote_(Zitat)_in_english) --Visionhelp (talk) 11:04, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Question about punctuation style
Greetings and felicitations. I'm an experienced editor on Wikipedia, but a novice on Wikiquote. Manual of style is relatively sparse compared to what I'm accustomed to. Is there anything else I should know? In particular, I've noticed spaced em dashes, which Wikipedia prohibits. —DocWatson42 (talk) 04:49, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Bumping. This is particularly in regards to "Laurence Olivier". —DocWatson42 (talk) 03:19, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

title: Wikiquote talk:Manual of style


text:
The X-Files

 * Seasons: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 | Main

 * For the 1998 film with the same name, please see The X-Files: Fight the Future.''

The X-Files (1993–2002, 2016–18) is an American science fiction drama television series, which is a part of The X-Files franchise, created by Chris Carter. Starring Gillian Anderson and David Duchovny as FBI agents Dana Scully and Fox Mulder, investigators of X-Files; unsolved cases involving paranormal phenomena. On May 2002, Fox cancelled the series after 9 seasons. On March 2018, Fox cancelled the series after 2 seasons.

Seasons

 * Season 1
 * Season 2
 * Season 3
 * Season 4
 * Season 5
 * Season 6
 * Season 7
 * Season 8
 * Season 9
 * Season 10
 * Season 11

About

 * Somebody at one point said something about the fact that I’ve ended up with, or have chosen, these roles where it’s me. . .  not necessarily against, but rivalling these [male] characters: the triptych of Mulder, Hannibal and Spector [the killer from The Fall]. That I find myself in those situations, those roles. I mean, Mulder’s not really a predator, we’re not in that dance, but there’s tension. Various forms of both intellectual and sexual tension.
 * Gillian Anderson, "Gillian Anderson: 'I've never been romantically involved with David Duchovny’", Tim Martin, The Telegraph, (February 15, 2016).

 * It's a curious time to be doing the show because everything is upside-down. There's been a flip since we were first on the air. Now it's as though people don't trust science anymore. In fact, they don't trust anything! Although they do believe in something: They believe in conspiracy theories, more than ever, it seems.
 * Chris Carter, “David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson Have a Love-Hate Relationship With Their X-Files Characters”, Jeff Slate, Esquire, (January 3, 2018).

 * There is a lot of soul there. But, you know, I do think there's also something to the fact that we kind of flip-flopped the gender roles early on, before it was ‘smart,’ or whatever, to do. Mulder was kind of this guy being instinctual, emotional, irrational, while Gillian—Scully—was rational and stoic. At least in TV terms, I think that was revolutionary, and it strengthened our performances because it was something Gillian and I could both sink our teeth into.
 * David Duchovny, “David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson Have a Love-Hate Relationship With Their X-Files Characters”, Jeff Slate, Esquire, (January 3, 2018).

 * The frame of The X-Files, which started out as a pretty much straight-ahead thriller/mystery/horror genre science-fiction show, kind of started to mold and get more flexible as writers like Glen Morgan and James Wong and then Vince [Gilligan] and then Darin Morgan took it into a more comedic area, sometimes into a more horror area. And the show started to bend and it never broke, and I think that's a testament to the vision that [showrunner Chris Carter] had in the beginning, which I don't think he had consciously. But he created a show that could bend and could grow, and he had the luck or the foresight to hire writers that were going to take his baby and turn it into something else from time to time.

 * I think [Carter] made two characters who were complementary to one another, and kind of completed one another in the romantic comedy sense. You know, they had aspects of a personality that the other was lacking, and I think because it took so long for them to be physical in any way there was a certain ache to the show. ... That wasn't what the show was about. The show was about the cases; the show was about the quest. Whatever the show was about, it wasn't about this relationship. That's kind of, I think, the magic of the relationship and the show, is that it was never the point of the show — it always happened in the spaces of the show.
 * David Duchovny, "Mulder And Scully On Why The World Is Ready For An 'X-Files' Reboot", NPR, (January 23, 2016).

 * The X-Files form of American folk paranoia wasn’t just part of the zeitgeist. It was a lot older and a lot deeper. It’s very much part of American culture. I’d been reading Fortean Times [the journal of unexplained phenomena, named after one of Mulder’s spiritual antecedents, the paranormal researcher Charles Fort, who was born in 1874] almost since it began and The X-Files was a gloriously pulped-out version of that.
 * William Gibson, "Can The X-Files exist in a post-9/11 world?", Andrew Harrison, New Statesmen, (December 29, 2015).

 * The very idea that the corrupt and the murky could be centred on something as crazy as a government cover-up of aliens in Area 51 now seems almost quaint. The X-Files is actually a naively optimistic show from a time when America hadn’t been so deeply threatened and could turn its attention inward. Any show that opens every episode by asserting ‘The truth is out there’ is fundamentally pretty optimistic and open-minded.
 * Robert Shearman, "Can The X-Files exist in a post-9/11 world?", Andrew Harrison, New Statesmen, (December 29, 2015).

 * The Gothic tradition concerns things lurking in the beyond and monsters that often represent ourselves. It’s traditionally looked at how big institutions like the church and state are in fact fundamentally corrupt. That idea of the evil within is a very X-Files thing. Both Gothic literature and The X-Files are about taking that walk into the dark woods and facing what we can’t define. That’s essentially what Mulder does in the show.
 * Sharon R. Yang, "Can The X-Files exist in a post-9/11 world?", Andrew Harrison, New Statesmen, (December 29, 2015).

title: The X-Files