text:
User talk:Jusjih

Welcome
Hi. Welcome to English Wikiquote. Enjoy! ~ Jeff Q (talk) 08:52, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * For a quick overview of what Wikiquote is, read Wikiquote.
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Hi Jujih
Thanks for your welcome visit. I will enjoy painfully! --KYPark 23:24, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

For your information
As an active member of this community you may wish to take a look at the requests for Checkuser rights for Jeff & Aphaia here and vote maybe (both are dedicated long serving members of the community). It will help the community to deal with vandalism the deep routed vandalism that tends to occur on small wikis and which otherwise requires steward intervention which is sadly not always available quickly. My apologies if you would prefer not to have received this but there is a requirement for 25 affirmative votes for the rights to be granted. If you have any queries feel free to ask me. My thanks & reagrds -- Herby talk thyme 15:34, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Jusjih & thanks. I think you are probably far more experienced than me at "reading" the mood of a community as far as the tools are concerned (& you have been active here longer than me!).  If it were me I would wait until the current RfA ends which I don't think will be long.  However I would certainly support you based on my knowledge of you here & on Commons - you seem to be someone who a community can trust so you would get my vote.  Regards -- Herby  talk thyme 07:12, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Jusjih. I am not standing as I have enough CU work on Commons at present.  Apart from Eugene & Larry's nominations on Commons I have always self nominated where I have admin rights but I assure you I will vote in your favor when you choose to - regards -- Herby  talk thyme 17:31, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Sysop
Congratulations, you are now an admin here. Sorry I didn't get to you as soon as possible; I lost track of the days, and just remembered your nomination a few minutes ago. ~ Kalki 02:08, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
 * You delay is no problem. Thank you very much for appointing me.--Jusjih 23:49, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Congratulations! :)  Cbrown1023   talk   01:20, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for your support.--Jusjih 23:49, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations
Well done on your election as Steward.--Poetlister 14:54, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much.--Jusjih 01:50, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

Importing
I've wanted to see something like this import function for a long time, but now that it is imminent, I find myself scrambling to learn how it works and what we need to watch out for. I'm hoping to educate myself in the next few days. Meanwhile, I have a couple of questions for you:

 * How exactly did you test and confirm that import works here if you don't already have that permission? (I didn't notice anything in our import log.)

 * Could you point me to an example of a full export/import between projects I can use to quickly review the results? (I hate asking for something I'm sure I can find myself with a little effort, but I sense that you want to move on this quickly, and I'm devoting most of my Wikiquote time at the moment to critical, time-sensitive problems like CheckUser.)

Thank you for your help. Oh, and congratulations on your stewardship! ~ Jeff Q (talk) 02:18, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Please see my answers at WQ:RFA. Thank you for your support.--Jusjih 03:47, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

By the way, #wikimedia-admin is meant for this sort of thing. A channel op can get you in permanently, or PM me for an invite (I'm Mike_lifeguard in #wikibooks. – Mike .lifeguard  | @en.wb 03:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC) (or #wikimedia-steward)

 * Jusjih, I wanted to apologize to you for my complete lack of progress on getting up to speed on importing and supporting your efforts. I had said that it was a top priority for me here, right behind my checkuser work, but the problems surrounding that responsibility, and some very old, critical problems (like copyright) that have been clamoring for attention, are fully occupying what relatively little time I have to devote to Wikiquote. (My real-world problems also seem to be multiplying, further delaying my return to substantial Wikimedia contributions.) I'm sure you don't need my help, but I'm sorry I haven't been able to fulfill my commitment to you to be more involved in this. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 19:25, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

''Thank you for your message. I have wondered whether imported pages with their edit history should be prefixed "Transwiki". Mike.lifeguard has said yes. I have not heard of other comments. How about you?--Jusjih 02:01, 9 February 2008 (UTC)''

 * This is the kind of question I don't feel competent to consider until I've had a chance to study exactly what the results of an import look like, including every detail of the results. I haven't looked at any suggested examples recently because I know they'll generate questions, requiring more study, requiring more testing, etc., to satisfy me that I understand all the implications. This is what I've been hoping to do since December and have failed to accomplish.

 * That said, my basic feeling would be that if I were satisfied that the edit history of an imported page somehow gave credit to the original project's editors for each editor (e.g., had links akin to what I used at Talk:Big Brother (UK)), I would probably find direct importing to the resulting article title fine. Anything less and I'd be concerned about misleading edit histories. But I understand this may be highly impractical. I just don't know enough yet to give my own opinion on the trade-off between proper crediting and making material transfer easy enough to ensure it gets done. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 05:29, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

 * If you check my log here, you will see American history quotes, American history quotes New Deal, and American history quotes Roaring 20s. When I imported them with temporary undeletion on English Wikipedia, they ended up in article namespace without "Transwiki". As Mike.lifeguard is so far the only one for "transwiki" prefixing while no one else has said anything, I merged these three articles into their corresponding pages prefixed "Transwiki" for now. All edit history is preserved here even though deleted from English Wikipedia. If the majority of users here favor prefixing "Transwiki", I will follow it while I will know the better procedure than the above three pages, but our Village pump has not got better opinions.--Jusjih 03:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I appreciate the info, and when I can finally get to it, I'm sure I'll find it useful in seeing how things have developed. But one of the most important things I've learned in Wikimedia is that many processes proceed and succeed as they do not because lots of people have contributed robust, comprehensive analyses of well-researched situations, but because individual, responsible, energetic editors like yourself are bold and simply get things done in the absence of broad community input.

 * I trust you to do good things. I may or may not agree with them eventually, but I also know that most good work goes on here and elsewhere without my input. (I mean that completely without hidden implications. It's just that I am so overcommitted that just about the only time I have anymore to contribute to Wikimedia is to do stuff related to checkusers, and explain to people why I am not participating in their areas of interest. I wish I could do more, but it's just not possible right now.) Please don't worry about explaining things to me now. Just do your good work for the project. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 03:28, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Importing 2
Slogans of May 1968 protests in France was created earlier but should have been imported from Slogans of May 68 as noted at User talk:CambridgeBayWeather#Transwiki. Is it possible that you can take care of it or explain to me in really simple words what I'm supposed to do. The instructions gave me a headache. Cheers. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 16:42, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ah, never mind. It appears that it's already been taken care of, w:en:User talk:RHaworth. Thanks. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 17:01, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, in your case I am not fully sure of removing a part of a Wikipedia page and pasting here. When identifying which edit history of Wikipedia article the materials were cut from, I would suggest noting this in the discussion page. GFDL does have a lot of potential traps.--Jusjih 01:21, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Charles A. Kupchan
" while the long sentences may not be fair" – Jusjih

 * Could you elaborate? – 158.38.53.241 15:42, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Checkuser access
Your access has been granted. Please advise of any concerns. ++Lar: t/c 01:49, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Congratulations, Jusjih! I'm quite pleased that you're in our CU ranks now, and not just because I feel I can resign now. ☺ ~ Jeff Q (talk) 02:29, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Well done. I've updated the list of admins.-- Poetlister  12:08, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Welcome aboard! --Aphaia 17:09, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

CU needed
Administrators' noticeboard. EVula // talk // ☯  // 09:22, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

re: Your checkuser request
Thank you for the prompt reply, I have responded at WQ:AN. Cirt (talk) 06:38, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

CU request pending
Administrators' noticeboard.

Dennys is still socking and attacking me (I don't mind the attacks, but it's a pain to deal with for everyone involved); it's time we target his IP directly. EVula // talk // ☯  // 03:44, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Request for checkuser to monitor discussion
Can you please help to monitor voting at Requests for checkuser/EVula?

Specifically, see this:

Thanks for your time, Cirt (talk) 18:02, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

 * Wow, that has to be the most obvious case of sockpuppetry ever! --Ixfd64 18:08, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, but there could be others, and underlying IP(s)... Cirt (talk) 18:14, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know, but it's surprising how someone would think they could get away with something as obvious as this. I do have a strong suspicion that this is the same person who created a bunch of attack accounts lately. --Ixfd64 18:21, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, and seems to be another one. --Ixfd64 18:25, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * All listed above (so far) blocked. Cirt (talk) 18:27, 22 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I just confirmed these four usernames to share the same IP, so I uphold discounting their votes and blocking them. Thanks for your notices to help us work well to maintain good order here.--Jusjih 03:11, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you! :) Cirt (talk) 03:57, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Re: AnankeBot@zhwikiquote
Well, I see that zh.quote allows automatic approval for global bot, and since it's needed I'm going to ask global bot status. But if you want to add bot flag to free RC I won't object. :-) Thank you, Nemo 18:34, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Recent vandalism... again...
This appears to be another apparent sockpuppet of the slew of vandalism connected to the user name... User:MuchoSemen13. The same person keeps creating incessant vandalism, following around contributions and either reverting them at random or just plain vandalizing with different user names. I've found another recent sockpuppet vandalizing the same articles. Please check Black Frieza. All the same exact edits as the person pointed above, all the same places, same reverting vandalism. Please look at how the same person is reverting all the same material using different usernames, causing vandalism on the same places. Please look after these specific articles for me and if necessary, protect them from recently joined users in order to avoid vandalism; please help me maintain and sustain resourceful articles while avoiding vandalism from this same person. - Zarbon 01:20, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The IPs in connection with both usernames have never been the same, so I cannot conclusively prove them to be the same person.--Jusjih 01:55, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

 * And now there's yet another slew of obvious sockpuppets for the same user... User:Meester Seester and TheClownPrinceofCrime. Please help me stop this vandalism, it's really getting out of hand again. - Zarbon 05:38, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Again, the IPs in connection with both usernames have never been the same, so I cannot conclusively prove them to be the same person.--Jusjih 01:35, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

"Films by producer" categories
I nominated some categories that you recently moved for deletion. See Votes for deletion/Films by producer categories if you would like to discuss them. Thanks. ~ Ningauble 18:35, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Cross-wiki vandal in Wikiquote
Hello Jusjih. Please see Vandalism_in_progress. Thank you, --Dferg 07:57, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

Transwiki
There a group of article at s:Wikisource:Proposed deletions to transwiki to wikiquote and hopefully merge into Diogenes of Sinope, Following the directions at m:Help:Transwiki I have manually moved one in and documented at Talk:Diogenes of Sinope and Transwiki log/Articles moved to here. I see that you have import tools to do the full move from wikisource to wikiquote, if you would like to move them all that would be great, if not I will continue with the manual move next week. JeepdaySock 11:01, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I just imported all of them. If to be prefixed "Transwiki:" I can do it later, but not now as I cannot stay at the computer for long time now.--Jusjih 15:36, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Deletion summaries
Thanks for handling Votes for deletion/Animation films by studio categories. Did you know that if you use subpage links ("/") instead of section links ("#") then the links will not break when the discussion is archived? I jotted some other notes in my VFD tips that you may find useful. Regards, Ningauble 16:39, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your message, without it I would never see your essay. If you nominated the two deleted categories in separate VFD subpages, I could just choose from the pull-down menu to explain the deletion.--Jusjih 16:56, 8 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I would suggest just moving those VfD tips to the project page containing VfD instructions. BD2412 T 17:30, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Bosnian wikiquote
Hi. I agree with your proposal for the removal of Zumbulka from administrator and bureaucrat flags, as well as all others who are not active. Harač
 * Thanks, but the user is already de-flagged.--Jusjih (talk) 09:16, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

VfD consensus?
Hi Jusjih. Thank you for pitching in by closing VfD discussions, which always seem to have a backlog. I seldom close them myself because I usually express an opinion in the !vote. I usually agree with your assessments, but I thought the case of Votes for deletion/"Polish death camp" controversy was more than "no consensus". In that case we had: I thought there was consensus to delete. Would you consider reconsidering this closure? Thanks. ~ Ningauble (talk) 16:49, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Five !votes to delete (counting the nominator)
 * One !vote to keep (two if you count a one-time spa)
 * Multiple comments from one contributor who did not actually !vote
 * A couple comments in favor of merging the quotable bits, if any (but none of the quotes appear to have been moved/copied to other articles)
 * As BD2412 has tagged a merger request to Holocaust and removed less appropriate quotes, merging the article may be better to reconsider the VfD.--Jusjih (talk) 21:56, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

Votes for deletion/Definitions of hell in recordings
Hello! You deleted this side - the votes were 4 - 1. But this is only a part of similar votings, and they should be handled TOGETHER. The vote of Anagram16 is not included, although he/she wrote KEEP. Could You explain? --Risto hot sir (talk) 13:36, 10 February 2017 (UTC)
 * The reason to keep Definitions of love in recordings does not seem convincing enough, but the vote has been reopened.--Jusjih (talk) 04:35, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Category:Japanese poets
Risto hot sir has requested that I ask the community about what should be done regarding the numerous articles listed under Category:Japanese poets. You will know what I mean after you read a few and start to see the trend. They are all a possible copyright violation, they are all of non-notable people who don't even have a Wikipedia article, they are all from one source and they all clog up this category. You can read more about this here, here, here, and here. Just A Regular New Yorker (talk) 22:52, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

Atsujin
Why the hell have you deleted Atsujin - did you count the votes?--Risto hot sir (talk) 16:01, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry to butt in, but the votes don't need to be counted. They are just suggestions. The sysop has the ultimate decision. J.A.R.N.Y.|🗣 16:38, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks J.A.R.N.Y. as the burden of proof rests on Risto hot sir to show that contributions are not copyvios.--Jusjih (talk) 02:03, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * How is JARNY's work cleaning Top Gear's copyvios proggressing?--Risto hot sir (talk) 10:46, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I can use a little help. It's very overwhelming. Think you can join the effort? J.A.R.N.Y.|🗣|📧 21:18, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Understand, but I'm not an expert nor interested in Top Gear - and there may be hundreds of similar sites.--Risto hot sir (talk) 21:27, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Neither of which are required to help, and acknowledgement of multiple copyright violation pages, does not exempt Top Gear from the rules. J.A.R.N.Y.|🗣|📧 22:16, 3 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I am unfamiliar with Top Gear, so if really a copyvio, I prefer to delete it and restart anew, but with discussion, not speedily.--Jusjih (talk) 02:50, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I think that's a great idea. How do we go about doing that? J.A.R.N.Y.|🗣|📧 16:49, 5 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Go to Votes_for_deletion.--Jusjih (talk) 03:09, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Request for adminship
Please show your support at https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wikiquote:Requests_for_adminship#Just_A_Regular_New_Yorker_(talk_%C2%B7_contributions). Thanks. J.A.R.N.Y.|🗣|📧 21:19, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

When will the VfD for Jonathan Mitchell be closed?
Hello, on the Jonathan Mitchell VfD, most people agreed that the article should be kept (https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Wikiquote:Votes_for_deletion#Jonathan_Mitchell). Seeing that you frequently close VfD discussions, when will the discussion be closed? 2606:5580:30C:7F9E:F887:ED70:2F28:9FE7 14:52, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. Thanks for reminding while I was too busy.--Jusjih (talk) 05:39, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

On inactivity
Hello Jusjih. While looking at Village_pump I noticed several inactive bots as can be seen in the link there. I also noticed a large number of inactive privileged users: . It looks like en.wikiquote does not have any inactivity policy but has votes of confidence. I am not an established member of this community, so I'd prefer not to initiate a debate over this myself. Do you think something can be done with regards to this situation? Best regards, MarcoAurelio (talk) 13:16, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Admin activity review may remove inactive administrators and bureaucrats. Removing inactive bots needs talks here.--Jusjih (talk) 04:15, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your reply. However on Meta en.wikiquote appears excluded from AAR because of the existance of the Votes of Confidence process, as you can see at Admin_activity_review/Local_inactivity_policies, and has been listed there for some time. If that listing there is wrong, we should probably clarify it locally whether en.wikiquote accepts it IMHO. Thanks. Best regards, MarcoAurelio (talk) 10:17, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Then start the Votes of Confidence to remind inactive administrators. If they do not answer, then remove them. For bots, ask the operators. Remove them ff no answer.--Jusjih (talk) 18:03, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

Just a reminder re your deletion on Oct 19, 2021
Hi

Just a reminder that I am still anxiously awating your reply on my talkpage. I would also like to know why you deleted  Talk:Hungarian? Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 01:24, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
 * See Votes_for_deletion/Log/2007_January. Having also deleted "Hungary", "Hungarian" redirected to it would also be deleted as going to nonexistent target. Please have sourced quotes to restart any of these pages.--Jusjih (talk) 02:38, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Sorry, I see no connection between the 2007 afd you directed me to, and your current speedy of a notable topic and it's talkpage. Could you please explain to me how I can appeal and reverse this deletion. Thanks in advance.
 * BTW is User:Jeffq still an admin on WQ? His user page says he is. Ottawahitech (talk) 14:18, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No. Jeffq is no longer an admin on WQ. I am undeleting Hungary per Proposed deletion. Hurry up improving it, or any other administrator might redelete it.--Jusjih (talk) 04:37, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

How we will see unregistered users
Hi!

You get this message because you are an admin on a Wikimedia wiki.

When someone edits a Wikimedia wiki without being logged in today, we show their IP address. As you may already know, we will not be able to do this in the future. This is a decision by the Wikimedia Foundation Legal department, because norms and regulations for privacy online have changed.

Instead of the IP we will show a masked identity. You as an admin will still be able to access the IP. There will also be a new user right for those who need to see the full IPs of unregistered users to fight vandalism, harassment and spam without being admins. Patrollers will also see part of the IP even without this user right. We are also working on better tools to help.

If you have not seen it before, you can read more on Meta. If you want to make sure you don’t miss technical changes on the Wikimedia wikis, you can subscribe to the weekly technical newsletter.

We have two suggested ways this identity could work. We would appreciate your feedback on which way you think would work best for you and your wiki, now and in the future. You can let us know on the talk page. You can write in your language. The suggestions were posted in October and we will decide after 17 January.

Thank you. /Johan (WMF)

18:14, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jusjih


text:
User talk:Hiphaley4

Welcome
Hi. Welcome to English Wikiquote. Enjoy! ~ Jeff Q (talk) 08:52, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * For a quick overview of what Wikiquote is, read Wikiquote.
 * To ask for help or to talk with another editor, visit our Village pump.
 * To browse Wikiquote, take a look at our browsing start page.
 * To sign with a date, write four tildes (~~) and save.
 * Before creating new articles, consult our guide. You may practice how to edit a page at Sandbox.
 * Be bold.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Hiphaley4


text:
User talk:HamatoKameko

Welcome
Hi. Welcome to English Wikiquote. Enjoy! ~ Jeff Q (talk) 08:53, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * For a quick overview of what Wikiquote is, read Wikiquote.
 * To ask for help or to talk with another editor, visit our Village pump.
 * To browse Wikiquote, take a look at our browsing start page.
 * To sign with a date, write four tildes (~~) and save.
 * Before creating new articles, consult our guide. You may practice how to edit a page at Sandbox.
 * Be bold.

Re-Animator Quotes
You wrote:
 * Hi there. Could you please tell me what kind of clean-up you think the Re-Animator article needs? Because it looks very clean to me, and as far as I see it follows the template quite faithfully. Saying something needs clean-up without giving any information on what needs cleaning up isn't very helpful. I understand the editing of the categories that was done, but I don't understand what else you think needs work. HamatoKameko 13:51, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, in this case, it is pretty simple. The cleanup I was referring to was to remove the quote marks. ~ UDScott 14:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:HamatoKameko


text:
User talk:Annesfurey

Welcome
Hi. Welcome to English Wikiquote. Enjoy! ~ Jeff Q (talk) 08:52, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * For a quick overview of what Wikiquote is, read Wikiquote.
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 * Be bold.

title: User talk:Annesfurey


text:
Niklaus Wirth

Niklaus E. Wirth (15 February 1934 – 1 January 2024) was a Swiss computer scientist and winner of the 1984 Turing Award. He is best known for designing several programming languages, including Pascal, and for pioneering several classic topics in software engineering.

Quotes

 * Software gets slower faster than hardware gets faster.
 * Variation: Software is decelerating faster than hardware is accelerating.
 * aka "Wirth's law"
 * aka "Wirth's law"

 * Go To statement considered harmful.
 * Often attributed to Edsger Wybe Dijkstra, but it was the title to a letter in CACM 11, 3 (March, 1968). However The original title of "A Case against the GO TO Statement" (EWD215, PDF here, ACM has its own copy online) was changed by the editor Niklaus Wirth, to speed up publication. Dijkstra explains it himself in EWD1308 (see near the end of the article).

 * In our profession, precision and perfection are not a dispensable luxury, but a simple necessity.
 * Niklaus Wirth (1997) "A Few Words with Niklaus Wirth". Dr Carlo Pescio eds. June 1997.

 * Reliable and transparent programs are usually not in the interest of the designer.
 * Niklaus Wirth (1999) "A Digital Contrarian Retires". Beat Gerber eds., June 1999.

 * ... we do not consider it as good engineering practice to consume a resource lavishly just because it happens to be cheap.
 * Niklaus Wirth (2013) "Project Oberon". Section 2.3, p. 19.

Program Development by Stepwise Refinement (1971)

 * As a matter of fact, the adaptability of a program to changes in its objectives (often called maintainability) and to changes in its environment (nowadays called portability) can be measured primarily in terms of the degree to which it is neatly structured.

 * But active programming consists of the design of new programs, rather than contemplation of old programs.

 * Clearly, programming courses should teach methods of design and construction, and the selected examples should be such that a gradual development can be nicely demonstrated.

 * During the process of stepwise refinement, a notation which is natural to the problem in hand should be used as long as possible.

 * Experience shows that the success of a programming course critically depends on the choice of these examples.

 * In the practical world of computing, it is rather uncommon that a program, once it performs correctly and satisfactorily, remains unchanged forever.

 * Programming is usually taught by examples.

Quotes about Niklaus Wirth

 * Whereas Europeans generally pronounce his name the right way ('Nick-louse Veert'), Americans invariably mangle it into 'Nickel's Worth.' This is to say that Europeans call him by name, but Americans call him by value.
 * Introduction by at the IFIP Congress (1965).

title: Niklaus Wirth


text:
User talk:Marinamarina

Welcome
Hi. Welcome to English Wikiquote. Enjoy! ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:07, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
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 * Be bold.

title: User talk:Marinamarina


text:
User talk:Marierico

Welcome
Hi. Welcome to English Wikiquote. Enjoy! ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:06, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * For a quick overview of what Wikiquote is, read Wikiquote.
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 * Before creating new articles, consult our guide. You may practice how to edit a page at Sandbox.
 * Be bold.

title: User talk:Marierico


text:
User talk:Ganjman

Welcome
Hi. Welcome to English Wikiquote. Enjoy! ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:06, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * For a quick overview of what Wikiquote is, read Wikiquote.
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title: User talk:Ganjman


text:
User talk:Shane~enwikiquote

Welcome
Hi. Welcome to English Wikiquote. Enjoy! ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:06, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * For a quick overview of what Wikiquote is, read Wikiquote.
 * To ask for help or to talk with another editor, visit our Village pump.
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Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Shane. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Shane~enwikiquote that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:35, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 05:57, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Shane~enwikiquote


text:
User talk:Luvly cattish

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title: User talk:Luvly cattish


text:
User talk:Kade712~enwikiquote

Welcome
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Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Kade712. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Kade712~enwikiquote that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:28, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 05:51, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Kade712~enwikiquote


text:
User talk:Jan Janssens

Welcome
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Warhammer 40K
I just wanted to thank you for the good work you are trying to do with the Warhammer page. I know it's frustrating when anons come and wreck the careful work you've done to build something useful according to community standards, but it will pay off in the end. --Ubiquity 13:21, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the shout buddy. I don't know if my work will "pay off", because there's still a good chance the article will be deleted, but I did my best and I'm resigned to the fact that I can't influence or change everything by myself. One can only try. --Jan Janssens 16:14, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jan Janssens


text:
User talk:VirtualSteve

Welcome
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title: User talk:VirtualSteve


text:
User talk:Rstonhold~enwikiquote

Welcome
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Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Rstonhold. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Rstonhold~enwikiquote that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:34, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 05:56, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Rstonhold~enwikiquote


text:
User talk:Woot~enwikiquote

Welcome
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Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Woot. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Woot~enwikiquote that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:38, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:01, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Woot~enwikiquote


text:
User talk:BrettArnold

Welcome
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title: User talk:BrettArnold


text:
User talk:The Tetrast

Welcome
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title: User talk:The Tetrast


text:
User talk:Lucia Carvalho~enwikiquote

Welcome
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Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Lucia Carvalho. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Lucia Carvalho~enwikiquote that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:28, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 05:52, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Lucia Carvalho~enwikiquote


text:
User talk:Carla Webbles

Welcome
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title: User talk:Carla Webbles


text:
User talk:Sir Andrew

Welcome
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 * Do not remove sourced quotes. C56C 04:25, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for experimenting with Wikiquote. Your test worked, and has now been reverted or removed. Please use Sandbox for any other tests you want to do, since testing in articles will normally be reverted quickly. Please see the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our compendium of quotations. For a quick overview of what Wikiquote is, read Wikiquote, and also What Wikiquote is not for a list of common activities that Wikiquote does not support. C56C 19:33, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:Sir Andrew


text:
User talk:KodyBevan

Welcome
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title: User talk:KodyBevan


text:
User talk:Afreytes~enwikiquote

Welcome
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Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Afreytes. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Afreytes~enwikiquote that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:17, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 05:41, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Afreytes~enwikiquote


text:
User talk:Shape of things to come

Welcome
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title: User talk:Shape of things to come


text:
User talk:Niku1980~enwikiquote

Welcome
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Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Niku1980. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Niku1980~enwikiquote that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:30, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 05:53, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Niku1980~enwikiquote


text:
User talk:Mchance27

Welcome
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title: User talk:Mchance27


text:
User talk:Commodore~enwikiquote

Welcome
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Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Commodore. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Commodore~enwikiquote that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:20, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 05:44, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Commodore~enwikiquote


text:
Robin Hood: Men in Tights

Robin Hood: Men in Tights is a 1993 film parody of the story of Robin Hood, particularly parodying Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves. Other Robin Hood films, such as The Adventures of Robin Hood and Disney's Robin Hood, are also parodied. The film is reminiscent of Brooks's 1975 Robin Hood based sitcom When Things Were Rotten.
 * Directed by Mel Brooks. Written by Mel Brooks, J.D. Shapiro, and Evan Chandler.

The legend had it coming... Find out where Robin Hood put his Little John, what made Will Scarlet, and what did Friar Tuck into his tights that had Maid Marion all of a quiver?

Prince John

 * Tell everyone that when the day is out we shall have a wedding. Or a hanging. Either way, we're gonna [joyfully snaps fingers] have a lot of fun, huh? [everybody cheers]

Ahchoo

 * Let's get out of this ladies clothing and get into our tights!

Dialogue

 * Robin Hood: Kindly let me pass.
 * Little John: Uh, no. Sorry, but a toll is a toll, and a roll is a roll, and if we don't get no tolls, then we don't eat no rolls. [proudly] I made that up.
 * Robin Hood: It's very fascinating. But I'm afraid I'm going to have to hurt you.

 * Robin Hood: You've just entered the territory of Robin Hood and his Merry Men.
 * Rabbi Tuckman: [makes a suggestive wave of his hand] Faigelehs?
 * Robin Hood: No, no, we're straight, just merry.
 * Rabbi Tuckman: As I. And who are you, with the exceptionally long feather in your hat?
 * Robin Hood: I am Robin of Loxley.
 * Rabbi Tuckman: Robin of Loxley? I've just come from Maid Marian, the woman whose heart you've stolen, you prince of thieves, you! I knew her parents before they were taken in the plague, Lord and Lady Bahgel. You know, you two were made for each other. I mean, what a combination. Loxley and Bahgel! It can't miss!

 * Robin Hood: Blinkin, I'd like you to meet Ahchoo.
 * Blinkin: A Jew? Here?

 * Robin Hood: I've come to warn you that if you do not stop levying these evil taxes, I shall lead the good people of England in a revolt against you.
 * Prince John: And why should the people listen to you?
 * Robin Hood: Because, unlike some other Robin Hoods, I can speak with an English accent.

 * Prince John: Such an unusual name. Latrine. How did your family come by it?
 * Latrine: We changed it in the 9th Century.
 * Prince John: You changed it to Latrine?
 * Latrine: Yeah! It used to be Shithouse.
 * Prince John: It's a good change...it's a good change.

 * Rabbi Tuckman: Excuse me, King. Why, if you like this guy so much, do you object to his marrying Maid Marian?
 * King Richard: I have no objection, but I have not yet kissed the bride. It is a custom, and my royal right. [hands the rabbi his sword] Hold this, Father.
 * Rabbi Tuckman: Rabbi.
 * King Richard: Whatever.
 * [tilts Maid Marian and gives her a very long kiss]
 * Rabbi Tuckman: [impressed] It's good to be the king.
 * King Richard: Now... [voice squeaking] you may marry them!
 * Rabbi Tuckman: Thank you. Here's your knife.
 * King Richard: Sword.
 * Rabbi Tuckman: Whatever.

 * Robin Hood: As my first order of business, I would like to appoint a new Sheriff... my friend Ahchoo.
 * Townspeople: A black sheriff?!
 * Blinkin: He's black?
 * Achoo: And why not? It worked in Blazing Saddles.

Cast

 * Cary Elwes - Robin of Loxley, called Robin Hood
 * Amy Yasbeck - Maid Marian of Bagel
 * Richard Lewis - Prince John
 * Roger Rees - Sheriff of Rottingham
 * Dave Chappelle - Ahchoo
 * Mel Brooks - Rabbi Tuckman
 * Mark Blankfield - Blinkin
 * Eric Allan Kramer - Little John
 * Matthew Porretta - Will Scarlet O'Hara
 * Isaac Hayes - Asneeze
 * Tracey Ullman - Latrine the Witch
 * Patrick Stewart - King Richard
 * Dom DeLuise - Don Giovanni
 * Dick Van Patten - The Abbot
 * Megan Cavanagh - Broomhilde
 * Brian George - Dungeon Maitre d'

title: Robin Hood: Men in Tights


text:
Harold Rosenberg

Harold Rosenberg (February 2, 1906 – July 11, 1978) was an American art critic, educator and historian. His essay on Action painting of 1952 made him an important voice in the New York art world.

Quotes

 * At a certain moment the canvas began to appear to one American painter after another as an arena in which to act-rather than as a space in which to reproduce, re-design, analyze or express an object, actual or imagined. What was to go on the canvas was not a picture but an event.
 * "The American Action Painters" (1952) in Art News 51/8, Dec. 1952, p. 22; then published in Tradition of the New, 1959.

Art on the Edge, (1975)
Harold Rosenberg. Art on the Edge: Creators and Situations (1975) University of Chicago Press, ISBN 0-226-72674-6

 * As with other modern artists, his readings provided not an organized outlook but a kind of metaphysical hum that surrounded his mental operations. His thinking was truly systematic only when it dealt with achieving the reality of the art object as a "creation out of nothing," which was a common theme in New York art after the last war and the break with the European past.
 * p. 58, "Newman: Meaning in Abstract Art II" : On Barnett Newman

 * Abandoned by philosophy, politics, and sociology, historical determinism continues to hold out in formalist art criticism.
 * p. 62, "Olitski, Kelly, Hamilton: Dogma and Talent" : On, and Richard Hamilton

 * The aim of every authentic artist is not to conform to the history of art but to release himself from it, in order to replace it with his own history. However the historical pattern is drawn, it will not fit the developing sensibility of the individual.
 * pp. 64-65, "Olitski, Kelly, Hamilton: Dogma and Talent"

 * Abstract art as it is conceived at present is a game bequeathed to painting and sculpture by art history. One who accepts its premises must consent to limit his imagination to a depressing casuistry regarding the formal requirements of modernism.
 * p. 71, "Lester Johnson's Abstract Men"

 * Only through apprehending, by means of present-day creations, how art is created, can the creations of other periods be genuinely appreciated.
 * p. 136, "Criticism and Its Premises"

 * The internationalization of art becomes a factor contributing to the estrangement of art from the artist. The sum of works of all times and places stands against him as an entity with objectives and values of its own. In turn, since becoming aware of the organized body of artworks as the obstacle to his own aesthetic self-affirmation, the artist is pushed toward anti-intellectualism and willful dismissal of the art of the past.
 * p. 137, "Criticism and Its Premises"

 * Imitation of the art of earlier centuries, as that done by Picasso and Modigliani, is carried on not to perpetuate ancient values but to demonstrate that new aesthetic orders now prevail.
 * p. 138, "Criticism and Its Premises"

 * One cannot, however, avoid saying a few words about individuals who lay down the law to art in the name of art history. Art criticism today is beset by art historians turned inside out to function as prophets of so-called inevitable trends.  A determinism similar to that projected into the evolution of past styles is clamped upon art in the making.  In this parody of art history, value judgments are deduced from a presumed logic of development, and an ultimatum is issued to artists either to accommodate themselves to these values or be banned from the art of the future.
 * p. 147, "Criticism and Its Premises"

 * The mingling of object and image in collage, of given fact and conscious artifice, corresponds to the illusion-producing processes of contemporary civilization. In advertisements, news stories, films, and political campaigns, lumps of unassailable data are implanted in preconceived formats in order to make the entire fabrication credible.  Documents waved at hearings by Joseph McCarthy to substantiate his fictive accusations were a version of collage, as is the corpse of Lenin, inserted by Stalin into the Moscow mausoleum to authenticate his own contrived ideology.  Twentieth-century fictions are rarely made up of the whole cloth, perhaps because the public has been trained to have faith in "information."  Collage is the primary formula of the aesthetics of mystification developed in our time.
 * p. 178, "Collage: Philosophy of Put-Togethers"

 * An art mode, new or old, is for the creative mind essentially a point of beginning. Content is brought into being by the activity through which the artist translates the movement into himself.  In such an appropriation, there is no difference between an ongoing movement and one that is finished.  During the reign of Minimalism, a painter might realize the new through Impressionism.  That art history has a schedule of continuous advances en masse is a fantasy of the historian.  The shared syntax of art movements is constantly replaced by the sensibility and practice of individuals.  The avant-garde art of yesterday is the only modern equivalent of an aesthetic tradition.  The fading of the ideas of a movement does not mean that it can no longer be a stimulus to creation. At the very dawn of a movement, the work of its artists commences to replace the concept; instead of Cubism there appear Picasso, Braque, Gris. Compared to the activities to which they give rise, ideas in art have a brief life.  In the last analysis, the vitality of art in our time depends on works produced by movements after they have died.
 * p. 230, Art on the Edge (1975) "Shall These Bones Live?: Art Movement Ghosts"

 * Greatness in art is always a by-product.
 * p. 231, "Shall These Bones Live?: Art Movement Ghosts"

 * The interval during which a painting is mistaken for the real thing, or a real thing for a painting, is the triumphant moment of trompe l'oeil art. The artist appears to be potent as nature, if not superior to it.  Almost immediately, though, the spectator's uncertainty is eliminated by his recognition that the counterfeit is counterfeit.  Once the illusion is dissolved, what is left is an object that is interesting not as a work of art but as a successful simulation of something that is not art.  The major response to it is curiosity: "How did he do it?"
 * p. 237-9, "Reality Again: The New Photorealism"

 * Illusionistic art appeals to what the public knows not about art but about things. This ability to brush art aside is the secret of the popularity of illusionism.  Ever since the Greeks told of painted grapes being pecked by real birds, wonder at skill in deceiving the eye has moved more people than appreciation of aesthetic quality.  But for art to depend exclusively upon reproducing appearances has the disadvantage of requiring that the painting or sculpture conform to the common perception of things.
 * p. 239, "Reality Again: The New Photorealism"

 * The new attitude of the critic toward the artist has been rationalized for me by a leading European art historian who is also an influential critic of current art. It is based on a theory of division of labor in making art history.  The historian, he contends, knows art history and, in fact, creates it; the artist knows only how to do things.  Left to himself, the artist is almost certain to do the wrong thing — to deviate from the line of art history and thus to plunge into oblivion.  The critic's role is to steer him in the proper direction and advise changes in his technique and subject matter that will coordinate his efforts with the forces of development.  Better still, critics should formulate historically valid projects for artists to carry out.  That not all critics have the same expectations of the future of art does not, I realize, weaken the cogency of my colleague's argument.  The surviving artist would be one who has been lucky enough to pick the winning critic.  My own view that art should be left to artists seemed to my mentor both out-of-date and irresponsible.
 * p. 249, "Thoughts in Off-Season"

 * Art has arrived at the paradox that tradition itself requires the occurrence of radical attacks on tradition.
 * p. 251, "What's New: Ritual Revolution"

 * In the United States, revolts tends to be directed against specific situations, rarely against the social structure as a whole.
 * p. 256, "What's New: Ritual Revolution"

 * If being an anti-art artist is difficult, being an anti-art art historian is a hard position indeed. His doctrinal revolutionism brings forth nothing new in art but reenacts upheavals on the symbolic plane of language.  It provides the consoling belief that overthrows are occurring as in the past, that barriers to creation are being surmounted, and that art is pursuing a radical purpose, even if it is only the purpose of doing away with itself.
 * p. 260, "What's New: Ritual Revolution"

 * The current demoralization of the art world is attributable at least in part to museum interference, ideological and practical, with ongoing creation in art.
 * p. 283, "The Old Age of Modernism"

Art & Other Serious Matters, (1985)
Harold Rosenberg. Art & Other Serious Matters, (1985) University of Chicago Press, ISBN 0-226-72695-9

 * It is not logical for art to be logical. Art goes against the grain of the times as readily as it goes with it and at the very same moment. Instead of seeking the nearest exit, art responds to a new situation by uncovering a labyrinth of problems.
 * p. 14, "Movement in Art"

 * The skills of the modern artist are the opposite of those of the craftsman: instead of acquiring techniques for producing classes of objects, the artist today perfects the means suited to his particular work.
 * p. 51, "Inquest into Modernism"

 * How much the work of an artist owes to an art movement to which he belongs can never be determined exactly, if only because the movement derives its character from the individual creations of its members.
 * p. 55, "Evidences of Surreality"

 * Both art and the artist lack identity and define themselves only through their encounter with each other.
 * p. 155, "Willem de Kooning"

 * The artist is obliged to invent the self who will paint his pictures.
 * p. 191, "Saul Steinberg"

 * Not only the artist but everyone "becomes someone else" in becoming someone. One is thought about, thus invented.  Or as Steinberg put it with memorable succinctness in his Cogito drawings, "I think, therefore Descartes is." One creates not oneself but another.  Being is in the act.
 * p. 196, "Saul Steinberg"

 * Not only were the minds of artists formed by the university; in the same mold were formed those of the art historians, the critics, the curators, and the collectors by whom their work was evaluated. With the rise of Conceptual art, the classroom announced its final triumph over the studio.
 * pp. 247-248, "American Drawing"

 * For the artist, fulfillment of self consists not in marching in the ranks of the liberators but in being entered in the roll of the Masters. The artist tends to find himself in the position of a deserter from his social group — or, at best, one who collaborates, with secret reservations.
 * p. 271, "Being Outside"

 * Exhibitions of minority art are often intended to make the minority itself more aware of its collective experience. Reinforcing the common memory of miseries and triumphs will, it is expected, strengthen the unity of the group and its determination to achieve a better future.  But emphasizing shared experience as opposed to the artist's consciousness of self (which includes his personal and unshared experience of masterpieces) brings to the fore the tension in the individual artist between being an artist and being a minority artist.
 * p. 273, "Being Outside"

 * The struggle to make an absolute statement in an individually conceived vocabulary accounts for the profound tensions inherent in the best modern work.
 * p. 316, "Metaphysical Feelings in Modern Art"

title: Harold Rosenberg


text:
User talk:24.205.54.67

~ Kalki 12:09, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:24.205.54.67


text:
Louis van Gaal

Aloysius Paulus Maria "Louis" van Gaal OON (born 8 August 1951) is a Dutch football manager and former player. He was formerly manager of Ajax, Barcelona, AZ Alkmaar, Bayern Munich, the Netherlands and Manchester United. Van Gaal is one of the most decorated managers in world football, having won 20 major honours in his managerial career.

 * Ben ik nou degene die zo slim is, of zijn jullie zo dom? "Am I the one who is so smart, or are you so stupid?"
 * Amigos de la prensa, yo me voy. Felicidades. "Friends of the press, I'm going. Congratulations." (press conference on May 20, 2000 about his departure from FC Barcelona)
 * Hier bij Ajax ligt mijn hart, een club fascinerend, altijd apart. Door velen genoemd naar godenzonen, voor mij de bakermat van voetbaliconen. Mijn herinneringen gaan terug naar De Meer, ook daar heerste een bijzondere sfeer. Nu ga ik mijn gevoelens weer achterna, en treed technisch toe in de Arena. In mijn levensfase is dit een nieuwe kans, en mijn jeugdliefde krijgt een extra stimulans. En daarom klinkt het vol overgave uit mijn mond, vandaag is de cirkel echt rond. Here with Ajax lies my heart, a club fascinating, always unique. By many named after sons of gods, for me the origin of football icons. My memories return to De Meer, there too was found a special atmosphere. Now I go after my feelings, and technically enter the Arena. In my life phase this is a new chance, and my childhood love gets an extra impulse. And that's why I state with full conviction, today the circle is really complete.  (poem to commemorate his installation as technical director of AFC Ajax in October 2003)

 * Dat mag jij vinden want daarom ben je een volwassen man. "You're free to think that way, that's why you're a grown man." (to a reporter on December 31, 2006, after the league match between AZ and Roda JC)
 * Het kan een schat van een man zijn, maar het kan ook een kreng zijn. Want dit doet ie dus. "He can be a charming man, but he can be quite nasty too. Because this is what he does." (about Marco van Basten after the fall-out with Mark van Bommel)

Manchester United F.C.

 * Like my friend is saying the fans are saying that. No, the fans are saying "Louis Van Gaal's army! Louis Van Gaal's army!" So also the fans are satisfied with Louis Van Gaal and my players are also satisfied with me

title: Louis van Gaal


text:
Wikiquote:Votes for deletion archive/Mr Smith

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: delete. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 10:54, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Mr Smith
Another one-quote wonder, from an Internet pseudo-radio service, Rockin Rebels Radio. To quote from their home page: "We […] even give you a chance to be on the radio yourself! And let's face it, there's nothing hotter than that. We have the best team in the WORLD working behind us, from DJs to website builders and promoters." This is the audio equivalent of a vanity press. The unidentified "Mr Smith" apparently has yet even to get his 15 minutes of fame without promotional assistance, which Wikiquote does not provide. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Vote closed. Result: delete (10 deletes [a record, I think]; 1 informal keep from article creator; no other dissent). ~ Jeff Q (talk) 10:54, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Delete. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. 121a0012 16:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Tyrenius 16:30, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. - InvisibleSun 19:48, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. ~ UDScott 21:06, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment RRR had a chat yesterday about this and we belive that is worthy. -- Punk Boi 8 03:17, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. unless something notable has happened on the show. - Koweja 04:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete - The only time something like this could be included is if it became a common catch cry as a direct result of the prank. WIKISUPERFIXER 10:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * It became the stations most famous phrase after this. They were even making shirts with it on it. -- Punk Boi 8 20:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Only if it were in common use. Just because the station makes it their catchcry, doesn't mean it is widely used or quoted elsewhere. WIKISUPERFIXER 12:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The problem here, Punk Boi 8, is that we need reliable sources for the notability of a subject that aren't simply self-promotion from the subject itself. Without such sources, we can't even justify a move of this article to Rockin Rebels Radio. (I also notice that we have no such Wikipedia article.) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 17:19, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Delete. —LrdChaos (talk) 15:54, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Since it was a prank call, Mr. Smith may even be unaware of the statements "fame", and perhaps unhappy to be immortalized on WQ. As Mr. Smith is not a public figure, we should probably be sensitive. --Ubiquity 10:40, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. Cbrown1023 18:55, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Wikiquote:Votes for deletion archive/Category:Verified heading cleanup, Template:Cleanup-verified

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: delete both. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 10:55, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Category:Verified heading cleanup, Template:Cleanup-verified
This category and template were used last year to help implement the change from the use of the deprecated "Verified" heading to the more useful "Attributed" and later "Unsourced" headings. There have been no uses of these for quite some time, nor should we expect any. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Vote closed. Result: delete both (7 deletes; no dissent). ~ Jeff Q (talk) 10:55, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Delete. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete both. 121a0012 16:25, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete both. - InvisibleSun 19:49, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete both. ~ UDScott 21:11, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Koweja 04:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment Would this qualify as G3 speedy deletable? Koweja 05:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Probably so. Since I nominated it, I'll let someone else close this early if desired. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 09:29, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. I looked at "G3" (Housekeeping) and I don't think it applies in the case where a template is simply unused (and even no longer useful). —LrdChaos (talk) 15:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 *  Delete both per above. Cbrown1023 18:55, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Wikiquote:Votes for deletion archive/David King Dunaway

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: merge and delete. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 13:10, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

David King Dunaway
This page is not quotes by David King Dunaway, but quotes by Pete Seeger from a book by Dunaway. I suggest moving the quotes to Seeger and deleting this page. Tyrenius 21:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Vote closed. Result: merge and delete (7 merges, 5 w/ deletes after, plus a suggestion to avoid delete from Tyrenius; no dissent). I will do any cleanup work necessary. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 13:10, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Delete and merge with Pete Seeger. 121a0012 04:33, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge to Pete Seeger Koweja 04:41, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and delete per Tyrenius. Let's not forget to copy the edit history of this article on Talk:Pete Seeger to satisfy GFDL. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 10:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * GFDL solutions: 1) Do you mean copy and paste text of edit history? Will suffice I presume, but not ideal as diffs won't be accessible to show each contribution individually 2) history merge (I steer clear of such things) 3) keep David King Dunaway as a redirect and make this clear (with links) in edit summary. The last is easiest and fully fulfils GFDL. Maybe even better and less confusing if Dunaway page has a soft redirect on it. Tyrenius 12:11, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I just reviewed WP:MM and discovered to my confusion that there is no discussion of copying edit histories there. There is definitely a rationale, based on the needs of Transwiki, that demands edit-history copy-and-paste when original pages are ultimately deleted (the usual fate of transwiki sources), which would implicitly apply to (intraproject) merges with deleted original pages. But the current policy there only allows for redirects, without any apparent awareness of how badly redirects might violate the principle of least astonishment. (If you go to a person article, you expect to see quotes from or about the person, not quotes from someone they wrote a book about that include none of their own material.) I fear there is a lot of GFDL violation going on simply because no one is looking at what happens when all theses messes get deleted over time. As far as specific contributions, from what I recall of transwiki discussions on Meta, access to diffs to show individual edits is a extra benefit of MediaWiki that isn't required by GFDL, anymore than listing authors for other copyrighted works also requires that each author be able to cite every word, punctuation mark, and formatting element they contributed. But I admit I'm operating on information I learned at least 1-2 years ago. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 19:01, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Check out WP:CPMV. You can merge entire histories (if you're cleverer than me). How's about keeping the original page and putting a statement on it about the book and where the quotes are with a link? That would solve all the problems very easily. Tyrenius 19:49, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and delete, concur with Tyrenius. ~ UDScott 14:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and delete. In the future, when you're suggesting a merge right in the nomination, it probably isn't necessary to list the page for VFD (you can perform the merge yourself, or use the mergeto and mergefrom templates. —LrdChaos (talk) 16:12, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I thought at that time the best solution was to delete the original page, because it's not a very good redirect and it would end up with nothing on it. The discussion has thrown a few things up for consideration... Tyrenius 19:47, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge, delete. - InvisibleSun 05:02, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and delete. Cbrown1023 18:57, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge and delete.--Jusjih 16:35, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Struck vote after close date, without prejudice as no sysop had closed vote by then. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 13:07, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Wikiquote:Votes for deletion archive/Catscratch

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: delete. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 13:11, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Catscratch
It's a TV cartoon series. I don't see anything of value here, and suspect there won't be anything. Tyrenius 04:10, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Vote closed. Result: delete (6 deletes, incl. 1 implicit; no dissent). ~ Jeff Q (talk) 13:11, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Delete unless meaningful, sourced quotations and an introduction are added. 121a0012 04:35, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, concur with 121a0012. ~ UDScott 14:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. —LrdChaos (talk) 16:13, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. - InvisibleSun 05:03, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per above. Cbrown1023 18:57, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Wikiquote:Votes for deletion archive/Elias Aslaksen

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: no consensus. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 13:17, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Elias Aslaksen
Not notable. Despite the links to Wikipedia, there's no corresponding page for this person (and no evidence of one having been deleted). There are fewer than 400 Google hits for the name, which receives mention in Smith's Friends but provides few details. —LrdChaos (talk) 14:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Vote closes : 15:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Vote extended to 15:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC), to encourge more editors' opinions. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 13:39, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Vote closed. Result: no consensus (4 deletes; 3 keeps; 1 move to Smith's Friends). ~ Jeff Q (talk) 13:17, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Delete. —LrdChaos (talk) 14:44, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete, unless evidence of notability is provided. ~ UDScott 14:53, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Keep. "Smith's Friends" is a significant worldwide christian movement.  Aslaksen was its leader for 30 years.  He is the author of numerous books and is well-known in Christian circles - particularly in Scandinavia.  He was also notable in Norweigian society more generally.  A biography, Soldier of the Lord (272 pages, ISBN 9788291305417), was published in 1998.  From the linked website: "Although Elias Aslaksen lived and breathed for the church called Smith’s Friends, we must not underestimate his contributions to society in general. In the first place, we note his personal efforts at sea and in the Navy, and the example he set as a Naval Reserve Officer, where his longest service was carried out during World War I. Secondly, the effort he made on behalf of the Navy to justify the position of Christians in military service, explaining from the Bible that Christians both can and should participate. In a broader sense, this led to a definition of Christian values that included both duty and loyalty to the society in which one lives."  He was referred to in a speech by the chief of the Norwegian Navy, Vice-Admiral Magne Braadland, given to the Naval Reserve Officers as recently as 1970 and Trygve Gran, a Norweigian national hero, pilot, and polar explorer, describes Aslaksen in glowing terms in his autobiography. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by WIKISUPERFIXER (talk • contribs) 07:53, 16 January 2007  (UTC)
 * Keep. There is a WP article on Aslaksen in the Norwegian edition (here). The page is properly formatted and sourced. --Ubiquity 11:03, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment: I have some concern that this person is not notable in the English-speaking world. Also, the current quotes in the article are taken from Elias Aslaksen's Last Messages, published by Hidden Treasures Literature, which is an in-house publishing operation of Smith's Friends. In short, it's a reliable (primary) source for the quotes, but is more like the religious equivalent of a corporate publishing operation, which in the past we've felt isn't alone adequate to convey English-world notability. (Religious groups like the Mormons and companies like IBM have their own publishing operations, too, but we have independent notability evidence for them.) I think we need some external validation of the claims of worldwide notability. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 23:15, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment I don't disagree with your comments per se. The publishing house is, as I understand it, primarily for own use, but its books are available elsewhere.  The book in question (primary source) is a collection translated transcripts of actual speeches.  The fact that they are translated indicates that there is interest in them in the English-speaking world, although doesn't of itself indicate that Aslaksen himself was notable.  I'd argue that if "Smiths Friends" are notable, then Aslaksen, by extension, is notable too (given that he was the leader of the movement for some 30 years).  The quotes above are from Kjell Arne Bratli who, as I understand it, is not affiliated with the group.  His books and research into the Smith's friends movement are also translated into Emglish .  According to this source, Smith Friends has branches across England, Australia, Canada, the US, South Africa, India, New Zealand as well as non-English speaking countries.  It is at least as big (probably bigger) than well-known religious groups like the "Exclusive Brethren".  Dr Lowell Streiker a US-based expert on religious groups has published his research into the movement ( and ).  A web search of Lowell's book (ISBN 0275960846) indicates that it is widely available (both new and used) from numerous online bookstores.  The AJPS report referenced above is also an independent source which can be used to assess the notability or otherwise of Smith's Friends.  In summary, in my opinion, Smith's Friends as a growing religious movement across the English-speaking world is notable (at least in religious circles).  Aslaksen as a significant figure in the movement is notable by extension.WIKISUPERFIXER 09:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The mere fact that a work is translated into English and published by a non-mainstream press is not really evidence that the work is notable in the English-speaking world, only that the publisher hopes it will be. I mentioned the Mormons above because they came to mind as willing to invest an incredible amount of money to hand out free publications, which is effectively advertising (which is also what made me think of corporate publishing, which does similar things for similar reasons). The way to demonstrate true notability is to provide mainstream publication evidence. I could not find the publisher for Soldier of the Lord, nor did I find any mention of Kjell Arne Bratli either on Amazon .com or the U.S. Library of Congress, usually a very bad sign for an author of an English text. Streiker's book is available on Amazon, from a textbook publisher, but its rank of 3 million is worse than many vanity publications. I don't know what "AJPS report" refers to, as I found no mention of those initials in the various cited references. I can't help but think that this all sums up to a relatively obscure subject being pushed by someone with an uncomfortably close relationship to the subject (bandying about undefined acronyms, calling an author by first name, citing in-house publications and obscure websites). Can you cite any mainstream press on Aslaksen (e.g., news articles, magazines, etc.)? ~ Jeff Q (talk) 10:55, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know Streiker from a bar of soap and accidently used his first rather than surname. My point is that Aslaksen's notability is directly linked to the notability of "Smith's Friends", as he was heavily involved in its development and led it for 33 years.  If the group isn't considered notable, then Aslaksen isn't either.  I'd contend that the movement is significant enough to warrant inclusion. WIKISUPERFIXER 14:13, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the reference to the AJPS report. I thought I cited it above.  It's at this website. WIKISUPERFIXER 13:40, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. After reviewing the evidence, I'm afraid I must go with deletion. The cited AJPS (American Journal of Political Science? one should always expand acronyms unless universally known) report by Geir Lie states that Smith's Friends is a movement without a formal name that, as of 2004, had only "25,000 to 30,000" members, no more than 20,000 of whom are outside Norway. That's less than the population of the small town I grew up in. This doesn't strike me as a well-known organization, even outside the English-speaking world. (I've never heard of the "Exclusive Brethren", either, and they apparently have 30-40 times the membership.) Even if Smith's Friends are considered notable enough (I don't see that this question has been raised at Smith's Friends yet), the leader of an organization isn't necessarily notable just because his/her organization is. To extend my corporate comparison, we have quotes from IBM founder Thomas Watson, but not latter-day IBM savior Lou Gerstner; in fact, most IBM CEOs will probably never have quote articles here. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I got the "AJPS" article from a web search. "AJPS" appears in the header, which I used for the reference.  Just checked again and the footer reveals that in this case AJPS stands for the Asian Journal of Pentecostal Studies. WIKISUPERFIXER 11:05, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Comment - Out it goes then, I guess. Last word goes to Aslaksen himself (if I may indulge just this once): "I am totally, indescribably happy.  Nothing bothers or annoys me, nothing causes me difficulties, nothing - absolutely nothing, no matter what it is or who it is..." (Last Messages, Judge Not, Stavanger, Norway, 17 January,  1976).  Thanks for the robust collaboration.  it is what makes the whole wiki work so wonderfully well!  :-) WIKISUPERFIXER 10:11, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Not so fast, WIKISUPERFIXER. The fat lady hasn't sung yet. We don't go with a simple majority here. I've extended the vote another week to see if anyone else wants to express their opinions, but unless we get a more decisive conclusion, this discussion is headed toward a "no consensus" close, which is a de facto keep. You may yet persuade the community of your case. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 14:03, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete after reading the above discussion. However, I would be in favour of moving it to Smith's Friends, where other relevant quotes could be included, as the organisation seems to (just about) merit being included. I understand, though, that preference is to have articles on people and not on organisations. Maybe there could be a rethink on this? Tyrenius 21:27, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Weak keep. The page seems genuine and verifiable, and added in good faith, and while the subject hasn't been extensively quoted in English, he does seem to be the right side of the notability bar. Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 11:32, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Move under a condition; I doubt the claimed "worldwide" notability of this person - in Japan I haven't heard this person. Either "Smith's Friend". But our project is not focused in japanophone, it is just a n objection of claimed worldwide significance. The latter could reach our criteria (cf. Steve A. Hassan's Freedom of Mind Centre). The website suggests their activities are mainly in German and Norwegen speaking world, even in English speaking one it is difficult to find their information, suggested. We can conclude at this time they are not so known in English speaking world and not meet the criteria of English Wikiquote? One another point we would like to note that in this page this group is claimed as "cult". Under the requirement of NPOV, we need to say on the article about it. Or we can quote some from this website - it is a worldwidely known website concerning religious cults. Otherwise we are better to delete it. We are better not to host non only its notability but also NPOV challenged materials. --Aphaia 07:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Not sure I get the NPOV point raised by Aphaia. The discussion has been about the natability (or otherwise) of the person and/or the group. If the point raised is that we can't make this judgement on POV or likely POV material, I agree wholeheartedly.  I'd suggest, however, that this is probably not the case here.  Further - the question of a group being a cult (often high POV territory itself) is not necessarily relevant in determining notability.  There will be multiple examples of cults and non-cults alike being notable. WIKISUPERFIXER 10:49, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Aphaia, could you clarify your statement? I read it as a "move (presumably to Smith's Friends) if condition met, otherwise delete", but I'm not sure if you feel the condition(s) have been met, or how to meet them. Do you feel we have enough notability evidence cited above? As for POV, I saw nothing in the current or earlier versions of this article that says "cult", nor does Smith's Friends (which isn't our responsibility, anyway) currently say "cult" anywhere except in a title of one of its references. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 23:15, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments, folks. To WIKISUPERFIXER, I agree our discussion here is mainly about notability and NPOV is not precisely the point of argument. I intended the coming edit after move should be remarked at that point (since the move requires appropriate modification). If someone cannot be available for further editing, I think now we are better to remove it; that is my argument. Or the person himself are better to be removed due to unnotability in English speaking world. As for the cult mention, on the website I pointed out on the above (and perhaps other documents, but it is hardly available for me in Japan, and I don't want to spend my time and money to search that) we find a quote which says the grous is a cult, and we can cite it as "quotes about Smith's group".   --Aphaia 07:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Wikiquote:Votes for deletion archive/Romeo and Juliet (1996)

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: delete. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 13:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Romeo and Juliet (1996)
Copyright violation - it appeared that the entire script was posted on the page. I have blanked the page and placed a copyvio notice on it. ~ UDScott 14:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Vote closed. Result: delete (7 deletes; no dissent). ~ Jeff Q (talk) 13:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Delete, unless select, sourced quotes are added. ~ UDScott 14:02, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. —LrdChaos (talk) 16:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. Concur with UDScott. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 18:46, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. - InvisibleSun 05:04, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. - That version of R&J (its official title, btw, is "Romeo + Juliet") used the original dialog. Any quotes should be in Romeo and Juliet. --Ubiquity 10:53, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete per Scott. Cbrown1023 18:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Delete. 121a0012 03:50, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.