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Thomas Merton

Thomas Merton (31 January 1915 – 10 December 1968) was one of the most influential Catholic authors of the 20th century. A Trappist monk of the Abbey of Our Lady of Gethsemani, in the U.S. state of Kentucky, Merton was an acclaimed Catholic theologian, poet, author and social activist.

Quotes

 * To say that I am made in the image of God is to say that Love is the reason for my existence, for God is love. Love is my true identity. Selflessness is my true self. Love is my true character. Love is my name.
 * Seeds of Contemplation (1949).

 * Persons are not known by intellect alone, not by principles alone, but only by love. It is when we love the other, the enemy, that we obtain from God the key to an understanding of who he is, and who we are. It is only this realization that can open to us the real nature of our duty, and of right action. To shut out the person and to refuse to consider him as a person, as an other self, we resort to the impersonal "law" and to abstract "nature." That is to say we block off the reality of the other, we cut the intercommunication of our nature and his nature, and we consider only our own nature with its rights, its claims, it demands. And we justify the evil we do to our brother because he is no longer a brother, he is merely an adversary, an accused. To restore communication, to see our oneness of nature with him, and to respect his personal rights and his integrity, his worthiness of love, we have to see ourselves as similarly accused along with him … and needing, with him, the ineffable gift of grace and mercy to be saved. Then, instead of pushing him down, trying to climb out by using his head as a stepping-stone for ourselves, we help ourselves to rise by helping him to rise. For when we extend our hand to the enemy who is sinking in the abyss, God reaches out to both of us, for it is He first of all who extends our hand to the enemy. It is He who "saves himself" in the enemy, who makes use of us to recover the lost groat which is His image in our enemy.
 * Letter to Dorothy Day (20 December 1961).

 * A tree gives glory to God by being a tree. For in being what God means it to be it is obeying God. It “consents,” so to speak, to God's creative love. It is expressing an idea which is in God and which is not distinct from the essence of God, and therefore a tree imitates God by being a tree.
 * New Seeds of Contemplation (1972).

 * The biggest human temptation is … to settle for too little.
 * As quoted in Forbes (4 August 1980).

 * I am able to approach the Buddhas barefoot and undisturbed, my feet in wet grass, wet sand. Then the silence of the extraordinary faces. The great smiles. Huge and yet subtle. Filled with every possibility, questioning nothing, knowing everything, rejecting nothing, the peace not of emotional resignation but of Madhyamika, of sunyata, that has seen through every question without trying to discredit anyone or anything — without refutation — without establishing some other argument. For the doctrinaire, the mind that needs well-established positions, such peace, such silence, can be frightening.
 * The Asian Journal of Thomas Merton (1975) Part One : Ceylon / November 29 - December 6.

 * Looking at these figures I was suddenly, almost forcibly, jerked clean out of the habitual, half-tied vision of things, and an inner clearness, clarity, as if exploding from the rocks themselves, became evident and obvious. … The thing about this is that there is no puzzle, no problem, and really no "mystery." All problems are resolved and everything is clear. The rock, all matter, all life, is charged with dharmakaya… everything is emptiness and everything is compassion. I don’t know when in my life I have ever had such a sense of beauty and spiritual validity running together in one aesthetic illumination. Surely with Mahabalipuram and Polonnaruwa my Asian pilgrimage has come clear and purified itself. I mean, I know and have seen what I was obscurely looking for. I don’t know what else remains but I have now seen and have pierced through the surface and have got beyond the shadow and the disguise. The whole thing is very much a Zen garden, a span of bareness and openness and evidence, and the great figures, motionless, yet with the lines in full movement, waves of vesture and bodily form, a beautiful and holy vision.
 * The Asian Journal of Thomas Merton (1975) Part One : Ceylon / November 29 - December 6.

 * This new language of prayer has to come out of something which transcends all our traditions, and comes out of the immediacy of love. We have to part now, aware of the love that unites us, the love that unites us in spite of real differences, real emotional friction... The things on the surface are nothing, what is deep is the Real. We are creatures of Love. Let us therefore join hands, as we did before, and I will try to say something that comes out of the depths of our hearts. I ask you to concentrate on the love that is in you, that is in us all. I have no idea what I am going to say. I am going to be silent a minute, and then I will say something...
 * O God, we are one with You. You have made us one with You. You have taught us that if we are open to one another, You dwell in us. Help us to preserve this openness and to fight for it with all our hearts. Help us to realize that there can be no understanding where there is mutual rejection. O God, in accepting one another wholeheartedly, fully, completely, we accept You, and we thank You, and we adore You, and we love You with our whole being, because our being is Your being, our spirit is rooted in Your spirit. Fill us then with love, and let us be bound together with love as we go our diverse ways, united in this one spirit which makes You present in the world, and which makes You witness to the ultimate reality that is love. Love has overcome. Love is victorious. Amen.
 * Closing statements and prayer from an informal address delivered in Calcutta, India (October 1968), from The Asian Journal of Thomas Merton (1975); quoted in Thomas Merton, Spiritual Master : The Essential Writings (1992), p. 237.

 * The whole idea of compassion is based on a keen awareness of the interdependence of all these living beings, which are all part of one another, and all involved in one another.
 * Statement from his final address, during a conference on East-West monastic dialogue, delivered just two hours before his death (10 December 1968), quoted in Religious Education, Vol. 73 (1978), p. 292, and in The Boundless Circle : Caring for Creatures and Creation (1996) by Michael W. Fox.

 * Our job is to love others without stopping to inquire whether or not they are worthy. That is not our business and, in fact, it is nobody's business. What we are asked to do is to love, and this love itself will render both ourselves and our neighbors worthy if anything can.
 * Letter to Dorothy Day, quoted in Catholic Voices in a World on Fire (2005) by Stephen Hand, p. 180.

 * When I criticize a system, they think I criticize them—and that is of course because they accept the system and identify themselves with it. All love and bliss! And they seem to have no idea that the affluence (which for them is the kingdom of God) has another side to it—the buried bodies of children in Vietnam and the Negro-Puerto Rican ghettos.
 * as cited in Follow the Ecstasy: The Hermitage Years of Thomas Merton by John Howard Griffin (1983), p. 97

 * It brings to the West a salutary reminder that our highly activistic and one-sided culture is faced with a crisis that may end in self-destruction because it lacks the inner depth of an authentic metaphysical consciousness. Without such depth, our moral and political protestations are just so verbiage. If, in the West, God can no longer be experienced as other than "dead", it is because of an inner split and self-alienation which have characterized the Western mind in its single-minded dedication to only the half of life: that which is exterior, objective and quantitative.
 * about the Bhagavad Gita. Merton, Thomas Thoughts on the East I Thomas Merton; with an introduction by George Woodcock New York: New Directions, 1995 Quoted and attributed in Londhe, S. (2008). A tribute to Hinduism: Thoughts and wisdom spanning continents and time about India and her culture

The Seven Storey Mountain (1948)

 * The devil is no fool. He can get people feeling about heaven the way they ought to feel about hell. He can make them fear the means of grace the way they do not fear sin. And he does so not by light but by obscurity, not by realities but by shadows, not by clarity and substance but by dreams and the creatures of psychosis. And men are so poor in intellect that a few cold chills down their spine will be enough to keep them from ever finding out the truth about anything.
 * p. 30

 * And Catholics, thousands of Catholics everywhere, have the consummate audacity to weep and complain because God does not hear their prayers for peace, when they have neglected not only His will, but the ordinary dictates of natural reason and prudence, and let their children grow up according to the standards of a civilization of hyenas.
 * p. 56

 * Indeed, the truth that many people never understand, until it is too late, is that the more you try to avoid suffering, the more you suffer, because smaller and more insignificant things begin to torture you, in proportion to your fear of being hurt. The one who does most to avoid suffering is, in the end, the one who suffers the most: and his suffering comes to him from things so little and so trivial that one can say that it is no longer objective at all. It is his own existence, his own being, that is at once the subject and the source of his pain, and his very existence and consciousness is his greatest torture. This is another of the great perversions by which the devil uses our philosophies to turn our whole nature inside out, and eviscerate all our capacities for good, turning them against ourselves.
 * p. 91

 * Is there any man who has ever gone through a whole lifetime without dressing himself up, in his fancy, in the habit of a monk and enclosing himself in a cell where he sits magnificent in heroic austerity and solitude, while all the young ladies who hitherto were cool to his affections in the world come and beat on the gates of the monastery crying, "Come out, come out!"
 * p. 126

 * There is not a flower that opens, not a seed that falls into the ground, and not an ear of wheat that nods on the end of its stalk in the wind that does not preach and proclaim the greatness and the mercy of God to the whole world. There is not an act of kindness or generosity, not an act of sacrifice done, or a word of peace and gentleness spoken, not a child's prayer uttered, that does not sing hymns to God before his throne, and in the eyes of men, and before their faces.
 * p. 142

 * “If any man love the world, the charity of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world is the concupiscence of the flesh and the concupiscence of the eyes and the pride of life.” That is to say, all men who live only according to their five senses, and seek nothing beyond the gratification of their natural appetites for pleasure and reputation and power, cut themselves off from that charity which is the principle of all spiritual vitality and happiness because it alone saves us from the barren wilderness of our own abominable selfishness.
 * p. 147

 * It is true that the materialistic society, the so-called culture that has evolved under the tender mercies of capitalism, has produced what seems to be the ultimate limit of this worldliness. And nowhere, except perhaps in the analogous society of pagan Rome, has there ever been such a flowering of cheap and petty and disgusting lusts and vanities as in the world of capitalism, where there is no evil that is not fostered and encouraged for the sake of making money. We live in a society whose whole policy is to excite every nerve in the human body and keep it at the highest pitch of artificial tension, to strain every human desire to the limit and to create as many new desires and synthetic passions as possible, in order to cater to them with the products of our factories and printing presses and movie studios and all the rest.
 * pp. 147-148

 * Everybody makes fun of virtue, which by now has, as its primary meaning, an affectation of prudery practiced by hypocrites and the impotent.
 * p. 223

 * In so far as men are prepared to prefer their own will to God’s will, they can be said to hate God: for of course they cannot hate Him in Himself. But they hate Him in the Commandments which they violate. But God is our life: God’s will is our food, our meat, our life’s bread.
 * p. 252

The Ascent to Truth (1951)

 * One might compare the journey of the soul to mystical union, by way of pure faith, to the journey of a car on a dark highway. The only way the driver can keep to the road is by using his headlights. So in the mystical life, reason has its function. The way of faith is necessarily obscure. We drive by night. Nevertheless our reason penetrates the darkness enough to show us a little of the road ahead. It is by the light of reason that we interpret the signposts and make out the landmarks along our way. Those who misunderstand Saint John of the Cross imagine that the way of nada is like driving by night, without any headlights whatever. This is a dangerous misunderstanding of the saint's doctrine.
 * Ch. X : Reason in the Life of Contemplation, p. 114.

Thoughts in Solitude (1956)

 * We must suffer. Our five sense are dulled by inordinate pleasure. Penance makes them keen, gives them back their natural vitality, and more. Penance clears the eye of conscience and of reason. It helps think clearly, judge sanely. It strengthens the action of our will.
 * Contradictions have always existed in the soul of [individuals]. But it is only when we prefer analysis to silence that they become a constant and insoluble problem. We are not meant to resolve all contradictions but to live with them and rise above them and see them in the light of exterior and objective values which make them trivial by comparison.
 * My Lord God, I have no idea where I am going. I do not see the road ahead of me. I cannot know for certain where it will end. Nor do I really know myself, and the fact that I think I am following your will does not mean that I am actually doing so. But I believe that the desire to please you does in fact please you. And I hope I have that desire in all that I am doing. I hope that I will never do anything apart from that desire. And I know that if I do this you will lead me by the right road, though I may know nothing about it. Therefore I will trust you always though I may seem to be lost and in the shadow of death. I will not fear, for you are ever with me, and you will never leave me to face my perils alone.

The Secular Journal of Thomas Merton (1959)

 * There is a logic of language and a logic of mathematics. The former is supple and lifelike, it follows our experience. The latter is abstract and rigid, more ideal. The latter is perfectly necessary, perfectly reliable: the former is only sometimes reliable and hardly ever systematic. But the logic of mathematics achieves necessity at the expense of living truth, it is less real than the other, although more certain. It achieves certainty by a flight from the concrete into abstraction. Doubtless, to an idealist, this would seem to be a more perfect reality. I am not an idealist. The logic of the poet — that is, the logic of language or the experience itself — develops the way a living organism grows: it spreads out towards what it loves, and is heliotropic, like a plant. A tree grows out into a free form, an organic form. It is never ideal, only free; never typical, always individual.
 * November 2, 1939. pp 24.

Disputed Questions (1960)

 * Hope of attaining true freedom by purely political means has become an insane delusion. (from "The Pasternak Affair").

The Way of Chuang-Tzŭ (1965)

 * Quotes of Merton from his commentaries on Zhuangzi and presentations of translations of his works.

Chuang Tzu is not concerned with words and formulas about reality, but with the direct existential grasp of reality in itself. Such a grasp is necessarily obscure and does not lend itself to abstract analysis. It can be presented in a parable, a fable, or a funny story about a conversation between two philosophers. The other way, the way of conscious striving, even though it may claim to be a way of virtue, is fundamentally a way of self-aggrandizement, and it is consequently bound to come into conflict with Tao. Hence it is self-destructive, for "what is against Tao will cease to be." The true inheritors of the thought and spirit of Chuang Tzu are the Chinese Zen Buddhists of the Tang period (7th to 10th centuries A.D.). But '''Chuang Tzu continued to exert an influence on all cultured Chinese thought, since he never ceased to be recognized as one of the great writers and think ers of the classical period. The subtle, sophisticated, mystical Taoism of Chuang Tzu and Lao Tzu has left a permanent mark on all Chinese culture and on the Chinese character itself.''' There have never been lacking authorities like Daisetz T. Suzuki, the Japanese Zen scholar, who declare Chuang Tzu to be the very greatest of the Chinese philosophers. There is no question that the kind of thought and culture represented by Chuang Tzu was what transformed highly speculative Indian Buddhism into the humorous, iconoclastic, and totally practical kind of Buddhism that was to flourish in China and in Japan in the various schools of Zen. Zen throws light on Chuang Tzu, and Chuang Tzu throws light on Zen.
 * I simply like Chuang Tzu because he is what he is and I feel no need to justify this liking to myself or to anyone else. He is far too great to need any apologies from me. … His philosophical temper is, I believe, profoundly original and sane. It can of course be misunderstood. But it is basically simple and direct. It seeks, as does all the greatest philosophical thought, to go immediately to the heart of things.
 * "A Note To The Reader".
 * The book of the Bible which most obviously resembles the Taoist classics is Ecclesiastes. But at the same time there is much in the teaching of the Gospels on simplicity, childlikeness, and humility, which responds to the deepest aspirations of the Chuang Tzu book and the Tao Teh Ching.
 * "A Note To The Reader".
 * Ecclesiastes is a book of earth, and the Gospel ethic is an ethic of revelation made on earth of a God Incarnate. The "Little Way" of Therese of Lisieux is an explicit renunciation of all exalted and disincarnate spiritualities that divide man against him self, putting one half in the realm of angels and the other in an earthly hell. For Chuang Tzu, as for the Gospel, to lose one's life is to save it, and to seek to save it for one's own sake is to lose it. There is an affirmation of the world that is nothing but ruin and loss. There is a renunciation of the world that finds and saves man in his own home, which is God's world. In any event, the "way" of Chuang Tzu is mysterious because it is so simple that it can get along without being a way at all. Least of all is it a "way out." Chuang Tzu would have agreed with St. John of the Cross, that you enter upon this kind of way when you leave all ways and, in some sense, get lost.
 * "A Note To The Reader".
 * The secret of the way proposed by Chuang Tzu is … not the accumulation of virtue and merit … but wu wei, the non-doing, or non-action, which is not intent upon results and is not concerned with consciously laid plans or deliberately organized endeavors: "My greatest happiness consists precisely in doing nothing whatever that is calculated to obtain happiness . . . Perfect joy is to be without joy . . . if you ask 'what ought to be done' and 'what ought not to be done' on earth to produce happiness, I answer that these questions do not have [a fixed and predetermined] answer" to suit every case. If one is in harmony with Tao-the cosmic Tao, "Great Tao" — the answer will make itself clear when the time comes to act, for then one will act not according to the human and self-conscious mode of deliberation, but accord ing to the divine and spontaneous mode of wu wei, which is the mode of action of Tao itself, and is therefore the source of all good.
 * "The Way Of Chuang Tzu".
 * The humor, the sophistication, the literary genius, and philosophical insight of Chuang Tzu are evident to anyone who samples his work. But before one can begin to understand even a little of his subtlety, one must situate him in his cultural and historical context. That is to say that one must see him against the background of the Confucianism which he did not hesitate to ridicule, along with all the other sedate and accepted schools of Chinese thought, from that of Mo Ti to that of Chuang's contemporary, friend, and constant opponent, the logician Hui Tzu. One must also see him in relation to what followed him, because it would be a great mistake to confuse the Taoism of Chuang Tzu with the popular, de generate amalgam of superstition, alchemy, magic, and health culture which Taoism later became.
 * "The Way Of Chuang Tzu".

Conjectures of a Guilty Bystander (1966)

 * It is a glorious destiny to be a member of the human race, though it is a race dedicated to many absurdities and one which makes many terrible mistakes: yet, with all that, God Himself gloried in becoming a member of the human race. A member of the human race! To think that such a commonplace realization should suddenly seem like news that one holds the winning ticket in a cosmic sweepstake.

Choosing to Love the World: On Contemplation

 * Edited by Jonathan Montaldo of the Merton Institute for Contemplative Living

 * By my monastic life and vows I am saying No to all the concentration camps, the aerial bombardments, the staged political trials, the judicial murders, the racial injustices, the economic tyrannies, and the whole socio-economic apparatus which seems geared for nothing but global destruction in spite of all its fair words in favor of peace.
 * pp. 81-82

 * I make monastic silence a protest against the lies of politicians, propagandists, and agitators, and when I speak it is to deny that my faith and my church can ever be aligned with these forces of injustice and destruction. But it is true, nevertheless, that the faith in which I believe is also invoked by many who believe in war, believe in racial injustices, believe in self-righteous and lying forms of tyranny. My life must, then, be a protest against these also, and perhaps against these most of all.
 * p. 82

Misattributed

 * Life is not a problem to be solved, but a mystery to be lived.
 * Attributed to Merton in a number of sources, the earliest located being Studia mystica, Volumes 5-6 (1982), p. 76. This does not attribute a direct quote to Merton, but says "To use another of Merton's favorite distinctions, for Furlong Merton's life is seen principally as a problem to be solved, which it was, in the final analysis, successfully, rather than a mystery to be lived". The next-earliest source located is the 1998 book The Artist's Way at Work: Riding the Dragon by Mark Bryan and Julia Cameron, which attributes the exact quote to Merton on p. 152. In reality this seems to be a slightly altered version of the quote "The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved; it is a reality to be experienced" which appeared in the 1928 book The Conquest of Illusion by Jacobus Johannes Leeuw, p. 9.

title: Thomas Merton


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Category:Regents

This category is for individuals who have served as substitutes for monarchs.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Category:Regents


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Wikiquote:Village pump archive 11

=Village pump archive 11= During February 2007, originally posted to Village pump.

Roberto Duran
Hello, am having trouble putting the wikiquote link on the Roberto Duran article in wikipedia,I think its because Duran is spell another way on wikipedia, could anyone help me out?--McNoddy 09:10, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

 * You should always include a link to the article in question in your post (preferably in the text, not the heading). In this case, I don't quite see the problem with Roberto Duran. Yes, the WP article is spelled Roberto Durán, but I see that your initial version here included a properly working link to it. UDScott later changed the text to say "Roberto Durán" (with the accent), and I just completed this editing by moving the article to Roberto Durán, so that entering either spelling in the Search box will result in the correct article. Teamwork! ~ Jeff Q (talk) 17:46, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

 thanks Jeffq (-: --McNoddy 10:47, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Links
I'd appreciate some advice about links within an article. When should they be to wikipedia and when to wikiquote? They seem to be mixed, so the reader isn't sure whether they're going to end up with quotes or a biography. Also is there a different guideline for people and for things/institutions etc.? Thanks. Tyrenius 17:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

 * As always, Tyrenius, you ask a good question, one for which there is no definitive answer. In general, we'd like to have our articles' links go to other Wikiquote articles. However, any subject that is unlikely to ever have a quote article should be directed to Wikipedia instead. For those that might have a quote article, there is no single convention that I'm aware of. Adding WQ links to these encourages readers to start quote articles on absent subjects, but leaves a lot of red (broken) links, especially given our relatively modest group of editors. (Anything we might link here will almost always have an existing article on Wikipedia.) Many editors, myself included, will often redirect red links to WP:
 * To have useful information on the subject available now; and/or
 * To discourage the creation of junk articles, like quoteless pages with a trivial statement, essays on the subject, some made-up nonense quotes, or a page of plausible but unsourced quotes vaguely recalled from memory. (All of these occur on a regular basis.)
 * In the end, it tends to be a judgment call on the part of the editors involved in each article that has these links. At least that's my observation. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 18:00, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It is unfortunate that interwiki links are less featureful than internal links. I don't think it ever hurts to use the WP link, unless for some reason there is a WQ article and no corresponding WP article; in the case where only the WP article exists, that's clearly the right thing, and where both exist, the WP article should have a WQ linkbox at the bottom so a user can find her way back to WQ if that's what she wants.  121a0012 21:58, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * If a person has only links to WP and then ends up with a wikiquote page, then a search can bring the name up and the links can be changed to internal ones. Tyrenius 21:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

New VfD nomination method, trial
Moved to Wikiquote talk:Votes for deletion  Cbrown1023  talk  18:46, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Centered text
See bottom of Adrian Henri, where I've used a table. However, I can't get the bullet point to work, as it then displays the table as code. Solutions welcome. Tyrenius 21:55, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Will this do?: GUIN GUINN GUINNESS IS white bird lying unnoticed in a corner splattered feathers blood running merged with the neonsigns in a puddle GUINNESS IS GOOD GUINNESS IS GOOD FOR Masks  Masks   Masks   Masks   Masks GUINNESS IS GOOD FOR YOU
 * "The Entry of Christ into Liverpool", from British Poetry since 1945 (1970), Ed. Edward Lucie-Smith - InvisibleSun 22:52, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I should have asked above if this problem has come up before (I haven't seen it) and if this is the solution that has been adopted. If so, please let me know and I will follow it. If not, then it would be good to get some consensus on it for future use. The InvisibleSun solution has the advantage of simplicity, but places the body of the text somewhat conspicuously out of line with other quotes. The use of a table puts the text in line and is to my eye more visually right. However, I have not been able to employ the bullet point with the table, as mentioned above, so the longest line of the centered text begins nearer to the left than other quotes on the page. I suppose another way would be to employ lots of non-breaking spaces "nbsp;" (without double quotes) to center it by hand! Tyrenius 00:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

corge grault
 * You cannot expect spaces to have the same width on all systems, so please do not use non-breaking spaces for something they were not intended. Also, the  element is no longer part of HTML; it was replaced in HTML 4 by
 and in XHTML with a CSS style attribute.  The XHTML/CSS standard way of doing what InvisibleSun did is as follows:
 * *
 foo bar baz quux
corge grault

 * This produces:
 * foo bar baz quux
 * You are supposed to be able to do everything that standard HTML tables do with "div" elements and CSS, but I'm not sufficiently well-versed in CSS to figure it out. (If we used any of these methods here, they should be encapsulated in a template so that editors don't have to understand any of this.)  121a0012 02:40, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Erk. So is the bottom line (excuse pun) to use the div coding you've given above for the time being? Tyrenius 23:31, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, but find a good name for a template to stick it in first. The advantage of using the div/style thing is that modern graphical browsers will almost certainly render it correctly, but older and text-only browsers will ignore it (whereas the other methods would screw up the display even worse on those).  121a0012 02:47, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Template for centered text in poems etc
OK, I've created a template. Use this code:

Tyrenius 03:19, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Monarch Mnemonic
Hey I know I fairly widely used mnemonic to remember the royal houses of Britain/England, and want somebody to make it into a page, provided of course that they have the time. The mnemonic is, "No Plan Like Yours To Study History Wisely," (Norman, Plantagenet, Lancaster, York, Tudor, Stuart, Hanover, Windsor). If somebody could create the page for such a handy mnemonic, I'd be much obliged.

 * Wikiquote articles collects sets of related quotes, not single quotes. What you want to do is add this to English mnemonics. It would also be highly desirable to have a published source for this. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 06:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

 * The earliest cite that Google Book Search had was: . grendel|khan 15:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

"She died"
I've been trying to trace a quotation for years, I think it's from a play or screenplay. The character says in response to someone who says "xxxx has passed away." The other character says "She didn't pass away, she didn't pass over,  she didn't pass anywhere SHE DIED!"

Suspect the works of Bill Naughton or similar genre.

Geoff Hunt

paper citation template problems
Wiki experts,

I am having trouble with the 'paper' citation template. The Wikipedia citation page lists paper as a valid citation template. Have you all imported all of the wikipedia citation templates?

The citation I'm trying to make is on the Christopher Monckton page. Here is the citation code:

When cited as a book:

Any ideas? Thanks! Ekabo 03:03, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I would use cite web for this. It's clearly a Web resource, and "paper" to me would indicate something published in a journal, not an independent work; I see no journal title here.  You can also copy over the template you want to use from Wikipedia.  121a0012 03:55, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

poem extension
I note that our MediaWiki now includes the Poem extension (<poem> ... ... ...</poem>). It hasn't been mentioned here. It's just as well, though, as it is incompatible with our formatting. Perhaps if a developer could be persuaded to do whatever is necessary to make it work in a list context.... 121a0012 03:50, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh I didn't noticed it now MediaWiki include it ...
 * John: Blah, blah. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah ........... blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
 * Jane: Blah blah blah.
 * I couldn't find the incompatibility you mentioned. Could you enlighten me?
 * I expect we persuade developers whatever is necessary on Bugzilla, but I have no idea why you mentioned to a list ... --Aphaia 13:44, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find the incompatibility you mentioned. Could you enlighten me?
 * I expect we persuade developers whatever is necessary on Bugzilla, but I have no idea why you mentioned to a list ... --Aphaia 13:44, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I expect we persuade developers whatever is necessary on Bugzilla, but I have no idea why you mentioned to a list ... --Aphaia 13:44, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

 * A problem I found is when you try to use the extension when creating a bulleted list is that it creates a strange looking format. Either every line after the first is indented too much (first example below), or not at all (second example below).

 * Example 1
 * blah blahblah
 * blah
 * blah
 * blah

 * Example 2
 * blah blah blah
 * blah
 * blah
 * blah

 * I don't know if I like it. ~ UDScott 13:44, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

How do we divide an theme article into subsections?
Eastern Orthodox Christianity is a huge article (over 32KB, of course) and hard to edit now. I would like to divide it into subsections and face a problem: what way is the best for such an article?

First I thought I could divide it into several themes, like "Love", "God", "Faith", "Prayer" etc. There may be NPOV problem; division by themes could be in NPOV but it would be hard. And it would bring another problem of overlapping themes. Some quote can be labelled in several themes, and it may be not only influenced with a certain POV but also not-userfriendly who seek a particular quote.

Another thought which came upon me is division by author. There could be two ways in my opinion. 1) by author sorted alphabetically (so "John Chrysostom" may be followed "John Climacus", next "John of Kronstadt" etc). And we can put some section like "A to Z"; the difficulties from my view is however it make a less sense we have mere a group of invididual authors' article there ... Another way I found is 2) by author (even roughly) sorted by period, like "From the Bible", "Ancient authors" (= it could mean "before the Great Schism" or earlier, "until the seventh Council"), "Medieval" "Modern" and so on.

Then I found the possibility you may have more different and neat ideas. So I would like to hear you ... what kind of sorting way do you propose? --Aphaia 09:51, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, we should be thinking of how our readers are most likely to search for them. Are they most likely to search by Author or by time?  I think they'd most likely search by Author, but that is just my opinion.  That also seems to be the best solution, because currently there are no dates by the quotes.  Cbrown1023  talk  18:49, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * For a theme article such as this, I would propose divisions based on historical periods, with authors arranged alphabetically within each subsection. It might be preferable to have a chronological order within each subsection; but it would be hard to imagine contributors following this pattern.  It's hard to get people to source anything in theme articles, so alphabetically within each subsection might be simpler and better. - InvisibleSun 19:00, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Since all quoted authors are famous (most of them, perhaps all canonized, and have their own English Wikipedia articles) so it is not difficult for me to date each article. Sorting by date is a bit different since there are some contemporaries. I am inclined to the proposal of InvisibleSun, roughly sorted by date or century/period, and then sorted each quote alphabetically (by author or just the head letter of each quote). --Aphaia 06:23, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I also like his proposal.  Cbrown1023  talk  21:35, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorted. If you have a time and interest, please review. I'll appreciate your feedback and mercilessly edits ;) --Aphaia 18:00, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Editing Wikiquote Nyaaya Box
I wanted to add something under the 'Nyaaya' or 'Na'.

So clicked on the 'edit-button' at the bottom of the Nyaaya Box.

But it displayed the 'Ja-Window'.

I tried twice,but with the same result.

I was unable to access the Nyaaya Window.

There seems error on the edit-button of the Nyaaya-Box. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.79.95.11 (talk • contribs) 22:28, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm afraid I don't understand what you're trying to say here. I am unaware of any "Nyaaya Box" or "Ja-Window" in Wikiquote. Do you mean that you are trying to create a theme article about Nyaya — also spelled (misspelled?) "Nyaaya" — the Hindu school of logic? Or is there something else you are trying to do? ~ Jeff Q (talk) 02:39, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

User:CommonsDelinker
m:user:CommonsDelinker is now working on Wikiquote too. Very different from our custom, but personally I think it much benefical for us to allow it to perform not following our bot policy strictly. For example, the bot operator has no userpage on this project etc. Since it will reduce our work greatly to watch commons resources we utilize, they we can avoid worring if they really exist or unfortunately were already deleted. Relevant discussion may be found at commons-l, m:user talk:CommonsDelinker. --Aphaia 07:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Category for African Americans
Are there any plans to add the category "African Americans?" I'm surprised one hasn't been added already. lwalt 11:10, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

 * There was a dispute if we really wanted to have ethnic categories. The community consensus at that time was not favorable. You may find the relevant discussions on our Village pump archives (sorry I am not sure where those talks happened). --Aphaia 07:06, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I believe the discussion Aphaia is referring to was at what is now Village pump archive 3, but was long ago moved to Wikiquote talk:Category schemes, an April-June 2005 discussion. Lwalt posted the question above on that same page, at "Request to add category", but hadn't received a response by the time the above post was made. I recently commented there, but I sense no one is anxious to tackle this issue again at this time. Besides reiterating a concern about how difficult categorizing by ethnicity would be, I've suggested that lwalt (or other interested editors) could be bold and start this, but should be prepared for controversy. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 12:33, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

This sort of thing causes endless arguments on Wikipedia, and I'd strongly urge people not to duplicate such controversies here. Country is a different issue, as it is rarely controversial.--Poetlister 22:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

 * One might think so, but check out the WQ:CAT discussion linked to above. Even nationality can be tricky. ☺ ~ Jeff Q (talk) 23:50, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

 * A similar problem would be found at an existing (and very small) category category:Finn-Swedes. I put temporally it under category:europeans. It could have been placed under unexisting Finns category, since it is for the people Swedes by ethnic but Finns by nationality, and our categories are "people by nationality" but I was afraid it would cause another confusion... You may have a different idea and want to fix it. Please do, even now I am not sure which is the best way to treat this kind of categories. --Aphaia 08:41, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Proposal: Wikiquote:My favorite articles
One newcomer asked Jeffq if we have "featured articles" as well our sister project, Wikipedia. Currently we have no such, though some of us tried to launch it (like MosheZadka). And our community is not so big to let us start everything we would like to have. At least now.

So, a proposal. Could we have more personal and casual recommendation pages? To avoid self-advertisements, we could invite only experienced editors (editcount could be a measure ). Or there would be other good ways to build this kind of pages. Or we could have a poll if an article is worthy to be listed or not at the talk page. Or more personally we could have only a list of recommendation lists which each of us can have our userpage.

The English Wikiquote is increasing; not later we'll reach the 10,000th articles. And more. We'll have more visitors and also editors. Not only for them, but also for our regulars, such "what are loved here" information might be useful to implove our website. --Aphaia 16:04, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe this is a good idea, but just don't name it My favorite articles. :) We could do what they did at Wikipedia and name it Featured articles or Featured content.  Cbrown1023  talk  16:51, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I vote for "Featured articles".--Poetlister 17:58, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * After reading the link that Jeff posted below, I like "Featured entry" better. :)  Cbrown1023  talk  20:51, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I recommend that we review the discussion at Wikiquote talk:Featured article (no plural) to see the kinds of complications (and therefore the large amount of work to be done) to implement and maintain any featured-article scheme. Do we have the bandwidth for another project on the scale of Quote of the day? Bear in mind that this would be harder, because QotD only deals with single quotes, whereas FA is about complete, well-structured, useful articles. (Besides, some of my favorite articles are terrible messes right now. ☺) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 20:19, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Good suggestion. I would clarify my original proposal didn't intend to feature the article on Main Page. Not at all. Moreover as daily featured article. Even on Wikipedia, many projects don't think "FA"s in the English Wikipedia sense, but just their list of recommendation as the calmination of their projects.  I avoided intentionally "FA" as proposed name, lest English audience tend to expect the similar well-constructed scheme as the current FA on English Wikipedia. It is nice on the project with 800,000 reg. users and 1,500,000 articles, but would not totally fit a small community like ours. --Aphaia 23:43, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Okay so in the past week no major objection came, we can step forward a bit? Let us sum the above:
 * We are going to have a page focusing on good contents.
 * We have already a similar proposal and following discussions, Wikiquote talk:Featured article (not plural).
 * We agreed to have such a page, but we don't share how to name it yet.
 * Candidates: Featured articles, Featured entries. I'm glad to withdraw my first candidate, however proposed another, "good entries".
 * Currently no one seems to think we need to have a review system as rigid as our sister project, English Wikipedia.
 * I would like to wait for other name candidates in a week. Personally I would like not to use "featured" yet, since 1) it could remind strongly "featured articles" on English Wikipedia and 2) if we save the name "featured" here, we could reuse it for more systematic evaluation system expectingly ... so I push "good entries" as the most prominent candidate, though I am waiting for much better candidates.
 * Thought?

I should point out that I'm not really a newcomer anymore. :) But I certainly think this is a good idea and will be putting forward Latter Days the day it goes live. Dev920 22:44, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

 * So let us launch a new page: Good entries.--Aphaia 10:08, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

"Blood, sweat, and tears" is correct, though partial, and cannot be attributed
"Blood, sweat, and tears" can only be misattributed, not misquoted. It is originally an adage (as in piece of folk wisdom), that for work to be a labor of love it must contain blood, sweat, and tears. Given that my mother taught me that her grandmother had taught her this as a small child when she was learning to sew, it much pre-dates 1926, the earliest attribute cited on the page. It was old before the turn of the twentieth century in this form.

 * Well it is a misquotation as Churchill said something, people try to quote him and usually get it wrong missing out toil. Perhaps your grandmother was frightfully well read and knew John Donne's Anatomie of the World: MeltBanana 14:58, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

And learnst thus much by our Anatomy, That 'tis in vaine to dew, or mollifie It with thy Teares, or Sweat, or Blood: no thing Is worth our trauaile, griefe, or perishing, But those rich ioyes, which did possesse her heart, Of which shee's now partaker, and a part.

Wikiquote talk:WikiProject Policy Revision
Please note that I have posted there so that we can finish all of our draft policies and turn them into official policies. I signed it WikiProject Policy Revision instead of  Cbrown1023  talk  so that you can all edit it as you see fit. :) Thanks in advance.  Cbrown1023  talk  21:38, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Lists of poets
Surveying templates for Wikiproject template sharing I happened across this list of lists template for poets by country, and type of poetry which someone here may find useful. // Fra nkB 00:59, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

List of categories
Here is a page named "list of categories" (historical note: when the project started in 2003, category isn't implemented on MediaWiki; it came the midst of 2004). And this page looks not so well maintained now ... for a year perhaps.

On the other hand we have relatively maintained page about categories Browse and also category tree generator at special:Categorytree. So it seems not so much meaningful to keep all those resources.

My tentative set of proposals are
 * Move the list of categories to Wikiquote namespace. (now it is in the main namespace)
 * And put it "historical" tag: if we would like to know the early history of Wikiquote (specially before language division), it may be one of testemonies.
 * For navagition needs, we are going to maintain Browse and categories mainly, and leave the list as well other lists extinct in the natural course unless some devout listmania is willing to maintain.

Thought, folks? --Aphaia 10:25, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 * There's an automatically gernerated list that needs no maintenance: Special:Categories. It is of course important to keep track of hierarchies if some categories include others.--Poetlister 13:13, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, we have special:categories, but it is a list of all categories and not sorted under hierarchies. List of categories was intended however to provide a list of "core categories" so those two take different approaches. I think it is useful to keep track of herarchies and that is why I keep it as historical document (reviewing its history, we have an insight how our category hierarchy has been developed). On the other hand I found a little reason to maintain two kinds of "major categories' list", and Browse seems today more convinient and well-maintained. --Aphaia 04:16, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ouch. There is one thing I missed. This page is linked from Main Page as "categories", though it is not well maintained. I propose it unlink and rewrite as "mischellanous" (sic). Any object? Aphaia 04:26, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * As long as we spell "miscellaneous" correctly! :-) --Poetlister 17:58, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, thank you for spellchecking! If there isn't any objection in a week, I'll modify the page as the above. --Aphaia 12:58, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * OK by me - seems sensible.--Cato 19:50, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your comments. Done. --Aphaia 13:38, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

referencing
Is there a template for "small" references? Or, better yet, an equivalent for the reflist template at Wikipedia? From what I've read in a quick pass, referencing at Wikiquote seems to be all over the place. -- Shoejar
 * Nevermind, problem solved. -- Shoejar 16:09, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

British Jews and Jewish-British people
There was only one person in Category:Jewish-British people, Michael Levy, Baron Levy. I have changed that to Category:British Jews in line with WP policy. However, I doubt that we need such categories at all on WQ. Are there any other religious categories?--Cato 19:48, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * We have category:saints, category:religious texts and category:religious leaders. As far as I know it hasn't been seriously thought to divide them by religious belief. --Aphaia 09:44, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The category Category:British Jews haven't been categorized. How would we handle it? It is okay only to put it under Category:Britons? Or we need Category:People by ethnicity > Category:Jews? (Note: I am not sure if "Jews" are okay for the majority of audience, while Moshez, who is an Israelite in birth, said to me once it was equal for him to be called either Jew or Jewish, "I am a Jew, or not?" --Aphaia 05:49, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Category:Fundamental and Category:Main page
Our two top categories are somehow parallel but I thought it not user-friendly; I forgot their distinction and put myself in a maze. It is a bit annoying it is necessary to check the Main Page to find a right direction in my opinion. So I created some new categories and put all top categories (expect Mnemonics whose validity is now in question) into the category:Fundamental or its subcategories. Now almost all categories can be reached from "fundamental", and I think it fits the meaning of this category. However this change occurred very abruptly, so you might be not happy so much. I don't mind if you revert them, but still hope you join the discussion how we can improve our category scheme. Regarding the recent VP and VFD discussions and many "recent creation of categories not fitting our scheme", our current scheme is not intuitive in every point and there may be many points we can improve. --Aphaia 09:44, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

title: Wikiquote:Village pump archive 11


text:
Wikiquote:Village pump archive 12

=Village pump archive 12= During March 2007, originally posted to Village pump.

Quotes in original language
Sorry if I already mentioned this, but: I think it's good to provide the quote in its original language in addition to an English translation, as for example in Arabic proverbs. I would like to see the original Greek for quotes of Aristotle, etc. --Coppertwig 20:10, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I also think it is a good thing to do. In fact, I just reverted someone who removed them all from the Mao Zedong page.  As long as there are English translations (or will be in the future), they are very helpful.  Cbrown1023  talk  00:12, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Isn't there a template for foreign quotes? Dev920 11:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm not aware of a Wikimedia template, but our various Templates pages, describing structures and overall formatting for different genres, include a specific format for citing original languages: the original quote comes first, the translation in a sub-bullet. (Calling our guidelines "Wikiquote:Templates" is an unfortunate name collision with Wikimedia "templates", which came long after we'd established the guideline pages.) We definitely want the originals where possible. I would also like to see sources for both the original and the translation, where they aren't from the same publication. (But I think our formatting doesn't easily incorporate that yet.) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 18:03, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was what I meant. I tend to use old articles I've edited as my template for new ones, but I remembered coming across something like that. Dev920 20:41, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That's exatly what I was looking for. Funny how people ask my questions for me. I just want to point out that there are a lot of film quotes with no original source for foreign language films. See Category:Foreign_language_films --Steinninn 06:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Category change
Would it be a good idea to separate out the categories under Category:Wikiquote maintenance that actually require editor attention? Perhaps we could move things like Cleanup, Copyedit, Articles to be expanded, merged, translated etc. udner a new category of Category:Articles needing work? It's extremely difficult to see what needs to be done. Dev920 00:21, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I support the proposed category as subcategory of "Wikiquote maintenance". I agree on that the latter is better to be reorganized. --Aphaia 13:30, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok, I'll create it and we'll see what happens. Dev920 16:46, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's done. Look OK? Category:Articles needing work. Dev920 16:54, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your work, Dev920! Sorry for late reply. Can we include also stubs under this category? Or they are better to be kept away? --Aphaia 06:24, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, when I'm cleaning up I don't edit stubs. Do you? Dev920 00:49, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Request for bot flag
There is an open discussion about bot flag request. Please give a look to Bots, review the test-run contributions and give your opinion. Thanks. --Aphaia 13:29, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Share a Quote
Some people think that friendliness is a sign of weakness, when in reality it is a sign of strength. -Wolfgang Singer. I just like this quote and think someday it should be qotm.O yes the link from Danny Williams in wikipedia for is page on wikiquote isnt working in wikipedia it says danny williams (boxer) I think its something to do with that, does anyone know how to fix this? --McNoddy 15:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Hanging indents
I think that's what they're called. I just added a quote from a character in a movie. I added the bullet, but I don't know how to indent the second line. Do I do it manually? I didn't see any style tags for other quotes. Thank you..

Allan —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Allanostermann (talk • contribs) 22:04, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Depending on the type of line one wants, the second line can be indented by adding one or more colons ":", two or more asterisks "**", a combination of colons followed by an asterisk "::*", or by making it a continuation of the first line with an html "break" sign in it : "  ". ~ Kalki 22:32, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Allan, based on your contributions, I deduce you're talking about adding a quote or dialog segment to Repo Man. The quickest way to figure out which of the formats to use that Kalki mentions is to edit (but don't save!) Templates/Films and observe the wiki markup (formatting characters) used in the examples shown. (Details on how these work may be found at Help:Editing.) Typically, one uses colons to indent dialog segments, double-asterisks to create a sub-bullet for source/context information for regular quotes, and HTML breaks for individual quotations that require multiple physical lines (like for poetry or lyrics). This odd collection is a consequence of the Mediawiki software and the various formatting needs of different kinds of quotes. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 19:40, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

How Do You?
Does anyone know how you change the name of an aricle in wikiquote?--McNoddy 13:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

 * You can move an article to a new title using the "move" tab at the top of the page. If there is a problem (like an article already existing at that name), you can request assistance at Administrators' noticeboard, or simply add   to the top of the article to ask for someone to do the move. More information about doing this can be found at Help:Moving a page. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 19:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

New post
Thanks JeffQ McNoddy--McNoddy 16:24, 9 March 2007 (UTC) sorry about that

Living people category?
moved to category talk:Living people

Vandal
.16:24, 13 March 2007 168.169.135.37 Bill gates article, could some one block this guy or something seems to be mucking up articles --McNoddy 16:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I reverted this user's edits, and added a warning to his/her Talk page. But since this is the first episode of vandalism, it's a bit early to block this user. ~ UDScott 16:32, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Add "WikiQuote" box to television show Titus

 * I don't know how to add a "WikiQuote has more quotes for this show" box, but I want to add one on the Wikipedia page for the television show Titus. I have added a text link at the top of Wikipedia section area because that is the best I know how. Thanks.
 * As an aside, I think many of the quotes on the Wikipedia page should be moved to the WikiQuote page to cleanup the Wikipedia article. Any thoughts?
 * -- User:Guroadrunner on Wikipedia

 * You can just add to the wikipedia article to create the box, which I went ahead and did. Koweja 06:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

 * If you plan to transfer quotes from Wikipedia articles to Wikiquote articles, please be sure to cite the specific Wikipedia article from which you are transferring the material, to be sure we stay within GFDL requirements. The easiest way to do this is to include an interwiki link in the edit summary, like so:
 * which will display like this in the Wikiquote article's edit history:
 * transferred quotes from Titus (TV series)
 * (Note the interwiki link format, which is much simpler and vastly preferred to the external-link format Guroadrunner uses above.) It's debatable whether we should really be using the formal transwiki process, even for partial transfers, but given the widespread failure of wiki editors to do transwiki properly, this should be a reasonable substitute. (And please avoid using any links in a section heading, especially when you can cite the links in the posted text. Embedded links cause problems with edit summaries.) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 14:45, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * For your information, English Wikisource stopped to transwiki, I heard. Now they import articles from Wikipedia instead (to activate import feature from/to other projects, we need to ask developers and need to watch their AFD). Imported articles retain their history it is a benefit. --Aphaia 06:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * For your information, English Wikisource stopped to transwiki, I heard. Now they import articles from Wikipedia instead (to activate import feature from/to other projects, we need to ask developers and need to watch their AFD). Imported articles retain their history it is a benefit. --Aphaia 06:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

John Mitchell article
Hello again, I was looking at this article, seems to have been Vandalised, dont know how to get the orginal txt back so could someone look at it thanks --McNoddy 17:26, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It's fixed. See Help:Reverting at Wikipedia for how to revert a page. Koweja 17:59, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks Koweja --McNoddy 08:44, 16 March 2007 (UTC) PS Happy Red Nose Day everyone.

Monty Python and the Holy Grail
I've had a go at pruning back this article, which currently quotes almost the whole film, to pick up on the more quoted lines. The pruned version is at Monty Python and the Holy Grail/temp. Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 00:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

what about a wiki lyrics/ wiki songs
what about a wiki lyrics/ wiki songs that listed song names and stuff with there lyrics?

 * LyricWiki does this. Wikimedia projects like Wikiquote and Wikisource can't do this because the Wikimedia Foundation has a firm policy about avoiding copyright infringement, and such websites are pretty much guaranteed to be massive copyvios. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 06:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * To expand on what Jeffq said, almost all lyrics are copyrighted. Therefore posting the lyrics in their entirety is a violation of copyright laws. Now, there are plenty of sites out there that have the full lyrics of thousands of bands, however they are taking a risk and hoping that the copyright owners don't care - the Wikimedia Foundation isn't willing to take that risk. In fact, a lot of sites have had to take down lyrics for various artists because the copyright owners have complained. Koweja 16:13, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * However, you may post small excerpts of the lyrics here at Wikiquote on the artists' pages.  Cbrown1023  talk  18:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Slightly misleading to say that "almost all lyrics are copyrighted". Lyrics for 19th century songs will presumably be out of copyright by now. However, certainly all recent lyrics should be assumed to be copyright.--Poetlister 22:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Self-signing Welcome template
I have just created template. If you enter on a new user's talk page, it has the same effect as --~. I hope that people will find this a convenience.--Poetlister 23:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Your invention is really nice. Thank you! What does the top letter of P stand for? Just curious. --Aphaia 07:59, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Quotes in another language.
I know this subject has been brought up before. But I'm stuck with the fact that there is not enough rules about how to use quotes that are not in english. Yea, you should first have the original quote in italic and then the translation. But I've never seen that the language of the original quote is identified. Shouldn't there be like a little "in german" or something before every quote that is not in english? Is there any moderator here that can look into this? --Steinninn 14:02, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your proposal. I agree this kind of information is helpful for some readers. I think however I would be bothered if every translated quotes are commented "original in XX" (for example, if we are giving a look to Confucius, do we really need to be said "original in Chinese" in every quote?
 * So I propose we have a remark about original language of quotes in the introduction part of the article. "All the quotations following are originally in XX language unless it is overriden by a further remark" ... like that. --Aphaia 19:18, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I completely agree. --Steinninn 11:53, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, too. Translated quotes should indicate origianl languages.--Jusjih 14:28, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Before starting to add such remarks, I would like to know how you guys think to create new categories for "original" like "Category:Chinese language quotes in original" (not a good name, but it could be improved). --Aphaia 10:03, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Mnemonics
I've posted a similar message under Talk:English music mnemonics. I know English music mnemonics (and all the other mnemonics pages) were preserved after a vfd nomination when there was no consensus, but the most recent addition to this page is just ridiculous: Under "Order of flats for flat key signatures" someone added "Big Elvis Ate During Golf Competitions Furiously." Is this really what we want here at wikiquote?? I'll argue the same point that was made in the vfd discussion: without standards of any kind, anyone can just make up a mnemonic and post it here. I for one do not see the value in these pages. ~ UDScott 20:18, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't believe we should properly re-address the overall question so soon after the last VfD. However, we do have a practice/draft policy about sourcing quotes, which is based on Wikipedia's formal policy to demand reliable sources for material. I would recommend simply deleting unsourced material with an edit summary like "rm unsourced mnenomic from likely unnotable" like we've been doing for many theme articles. As I've said elsewhere, technically pretty much everything in mnemonics and other theme articles is fair game for deletion unless sourced. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 10:23, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Search problems
When preforming a search a list is shown of the quote pages that contain the searched string of text. It can become long and cumbersome to open each entry to find a quote that matches what the searcher was looking for. Therefore an easy remedy for this problem would be to show the quote (or part of quote) that contains the searched text. If the user then likes they are able to click the link. Just a suggestion. Eric psyclicmotion@gmail.com

Sidebar
The sidebar has been updated to included wikquote links.  Cbrown1023  talk  20:35, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Excellent - it's much better over there than at the bottom of pages where people often forget to put it in. Though, wouldn't wikiquote topics be a better name, since everything on page is a wikiquote link? Koweja 20:44, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I've used the term "genres". It's a less overloaded term within wikidom than "links", "topics", "categories", or "templates" (the ambiguity of which has caused us problems in other situations). Although it does have a more specific meaning among creative works, unless someone can think of a better but still relatively unambiguous term, I think this has the best chance of becoming a term that folks will understand without explanation or disambiguation. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 21:02, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

By the way, for general information, what we're talking about here is ending the requirement to add   to each article, between the "external links" and the category tags, so that a list of general article types is provided at the very bottom of the article. Instead, Cbrown1023 has kindly provided us a section in the left margin, or sidebar, currently labelled "wikiquote links", that lists these general categories or genres of quotes. Earlier discussions on this topic can be found at Template talk:Lynx and Mediawiki talk:Sidebar. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 21:24, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Audio quote
Is there a way to upload a fair use audio clip to add with the quotes. I was thinking about having some audio quotes with movies. For example, can I upload it to wikipedia and use it here? Obviusly I can't upload it to the commons --Steinninn 05:21, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

 * In a word, no. Wikiquote has been operating on a "freely licensed material only" basis for the past year or so. We disabled our upload and now refer uploaders to Commons for material. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 10:27, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, you can't use Wikipedia images here, the only images that are able to be displayed here (due to technical restrictions) are already uploaded Wikiquote images (upload is disabled) and Commons images.  Cbrown1023  talk  21:20, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

ASAP
68.160.100.226 Jesus article etc Vandal, could someone warn this guy to stop this--McNoddy 16:13, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Since this guy vandalized other articles too, I put a temporal blocking (one day) on him or her. --Aphaia 17:38, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Non-existing fr: interwiki on many pages
Hi, i've found interwiki links to nonexisting pages on fr.quote here. What's reason for including them? --Milda@cs.wiki (talk) 23:57, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The page on the french wiki might have existed at some point. You can either change the link to the correct page if it exists or delete it. Koweja 00:20, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I think this is a side-effect of the closedown of the French Wikiquote, which only just restarted. Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 00:49, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It is, we may wish to leave them. They are like "red links" and can encourage people to create those articles on the French Wikiquote and repopulate it.  Cbrown1023  talk  01:09, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Ditto. Unless they French folks would like to remove it once, I prefer to leave them. Since restart in the last December they reached already 100 articles milestone. Sooner or later, most of those interlang-redlinks would be filled. --Aphaia 02:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Policies and guidelines on Wikiquote
taken from Wikiquote talk:Votes for deletion/GordonWattsDotCom

In that case the choir is being a little disingenuous. Policies and guidelines states:
 * The policies of Wikiquote's sister project, Wikipedia, usually apply equally well to Wikiquote. In addition, most of them are more mature and hence more polished than Wikiquote's policies, which are still in the process of being developed. Where not specified in Wikiquote, use Wikipedia:Policies and guidelines and linked articles.
 * Also most of the stated policies on that WQ page are links to WP pages. Ironically NPOV is a policy that InvisibleSun rejects on Talk:John Betjeman:
 * Editors have the option of personal preference; it could even be said to be encouraged to a great extent and is part of what makes our project distinctive.
 * (And see other points he makes there.)
 * Tyrenius 01:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Interesting remark, Thank you Tyrenius. As a part of "the choir" who claimed Wikipedia policy is not automatically our policy unless it is crystal-clear the policy in question should be applied Wikimedia project wide, I would love to fix this unconsistecy. I agree on the basic idea of recommendation to refer to the Wikipedia policies, but at the same time I think it is not our current practice to render those policies and guidelines as unquestionable norms to our project. In my impression, they remain as good references and guidelines, while people can argue its validity. Or is it only I that feel so? --Aphaia 10:11, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

 * No, you aren't the only one, Aphaia. en:Wikipedia's huge and incredibly complex set of policies and practices cannot possibly serve as a bible for any Wikimedia project except en:Wikipedia. No other project has a signficant fraction of its participants, nor can they invest anything approaching the likely thousands of person-years of work on those policies. From the beginning (or at least since I've been here, which at its 900-article count isn't too different), Wikiquote has used Wikipedia as a starting point for its own policies. But it has always had to be much looser in interpretation and execution, if for no other reason that it has only had a few regular editors and no more than a hundred or so occasional editors at one time. We have been gradually developing Wikiquote-specific policies, many of which are required because of the different nature of quote compendiums vs. encyclopedias. We have very many policy, draft, and other maintenance and operational pages that include historical WP links that ought to be updated, fixed, or replaced, but we have very few people who have the experience with Wikiquote and the time to do this work. We also suffer from an alarming burn-out rate for those few editors, no doubt because so much work must be done.

 * The inevitable result of all this is that our policy pages will always lag our practices. It is relatively easy to embarrass Wikiquotians trying to make a point based on practice and practicality with contradictory quotes from these pages. It is much more challenging to work with everyone to learn the reasons why we have the practices we do, how they can be improved, and actually perform the work that must be done to remove these inconsistencies.

 * Does this mean that frequent editors are always right? Of course not. I myself have been properly caught in contradictions, sometimes because of situational differences, but often enough because I forgot a policy or practice somewhere. Older Wikiquotians can always use the eyes of newer ones to find some places where work needs to be done, especially given the fluid nature of all pages in a wiki.

 * I haven't yet looked into the specific concerns cited above because (A) it came up during a VfD which I see as resolvable by other means; and (B) I'm much too tired right now to dig into these kinds of problems (I'm afraid I'm approaching my own burn-out). But I wanted to make clear that the overall problem is systemic of the level of community participation, the differences between the projects, and the need to get work accomplished whether or not we have formal, umambiguous doctrine on any particular topic. Just about the only policies on which you should expect to see intransigence from regular editors are mandatory Wikimedia Foundation policies. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 11:43, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Well said. I think that WikiQuote should not feel obligated to follow Wikipedia policies if we want to do things differently. However, the Wikipedia policies should be accepted as a starting point if there isn't a current policy or guideline here. Basically, common sense should be a good guide. It seems we have been more productive at resolving disputes than Wikipedia -and with less resources and editors, and for this we should be glad and happy.--GordonWatts 02:24, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it would be helpful to tweak some of the text on the policy page etc so it is in line with what's come up as a result of this discussion. This would be particularly relevant to users here (such as myself) who are used to WP ways of doing things. Tyrenius 03:32, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Edit toolbar
I have made some changes to the edit toolbar (the thing right above the text box when you try to edit a page). I have included buttons that were previously missing and have been requested here. I do not think they all need to be there, so I would like your feedback on which we should remove. (To use them or see what they do, just click on them and the changes will appear in the text box.) Thanks,  Cbrown1023  talk  15:11, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The way to change is only accessible to admins and is found at MediaWiki:Common.js.  Cbrown1023  talk  15:11, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't think of anything to be removed. I'd suggest adding one found on Wikipedia if possible, which is for creating redirect pages.--Poetlister 15:57, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Huh? I've already made the change, there are too many and I would like to know which to remove.  There is a redirect button (#R).  Cbrown1023  talk  16:28, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks for bringing those edit toolbar updates over, Cbrown1023. I've thought about adding some Wikiquote-specific formatting buttons for a while now. (It's item #41 on my never-ending to-do list.) In particular, it would be great to have the following for the complex dialog formatting:
 * Format a dialog speaker, e.g.  Mr. Spock
 * Format a context line, e.g.  In the diner, the friends discuss the explosion.
 * Format a stage direction, e.g.  grimacing
 * I'm somewhat ambivalent about a button for this one. It's a battle between the utility of avoiding numerous inconsistencies versus the tendency to misuse and overuse stage directions.
 * Half-width horizontal rule, i.e.
 * I'm sure there are others. I would also suggest removing some (like "picture gallery") and tweaking others (like "block of quoted text") for WQ use. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 19:10, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It would be pretty easy to add those, it's just I'm not sure what images we should use for them.  Cbrown1023  talk  19:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that this will work. We just need to find images.  Cbrown1023  talk  20:15, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I found an image for the dialogue one, but I'm still looking for the others.  Cbrown1023  talk  21:37, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Update After a lot of trying and some help from friends, I finally got all the code worked out and most of the images. We just have three images left and then we are done! :)  Cbrown1023  talk  22:48, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Cbrown1023, how are you searching for icons? It's not obvious to me from the URL where specifically those button icons are coming from, and it's taking me some time to wander through all the categories of icons on Commons. I'd especially like to see the image description pages, because I'd like to know if we can use some of these images to create new or modified versions without violating GFDL or CCL. Thanks. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 05:17, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The url is obtained from clicking on the image (or something of the sort) when you are on the image descriptor page. The pagename from the image can be found using the url, if it has commons in its name (close to the end probably) then it is on commons and the final name (after the last /) is the page name.  Cbrown1023  talk  12:43, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The category name is commons:Category:ButtonToolbar and the button template is commons:Image:Button_template.png (which is cc-by-sa-1.0, so we should be able to modify).  Cbrown1023  talk  12:49, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I had thought it was something like that, but apparently I made the mistake of using the "horizontal rule" (http://en.wikiquote.org/skins-1.5/common/images/button_hr.png) button to decode the mapping. There is no commons:Image:Button hr.png, nor did I find one in the category you cite. Could it be that not every button image in use by Wikimedia has a proper image description page? Since I created a half-width button by carefully "erasing" some of the pixels of the HR button, technically I can't upload my own derivative creation. ☹ ~ Jeff Q (talk) 20:53, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The thing about the horizontal rule button is that it is include by default in all Wikimedia sites. You may be able to upload it as Copyrighted by the WMF (because I doubt that that image has a descriptor page and it is owned by the Foundation).  Cbrown1023  talk  21:07, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I wanted to snark about why the missing HR button would be "include[d] by default" when Image:Bold icon.png is in the above category, with a proper license page. I also wanted to point out the arguments we've had about the apparent paradox of Wikimedia having restricted copyrights for some of its standard images to prevent trademark and look-and-feel infringments, and how that would prevent us from adapting them without explicit Foundation permission. But then I noticed that the bold icon is also in commons:Category:Mediawiki edit toolbar, which is where, sure enough, one can find Image:H-line icon.png (which inconveniently doesn't match its URL for toolbar use). If I wanted to be nit-picky, I could point out that many of these critical icons don't have proper source claims, just GFDL assertions, presumably implying that the uploaders assume that it's understood that they created the icons. (Even though Wikimedia doesn't allow these assumptions for other images.) I could say that, but I don't want to cause a fuss, eh? ☺ ~ Jeff Q (talk), Devil's Advocate, 23:05, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * :) I'm glad you found it, and I doubt that it would be good to make a fuss. :-P Now that it is GFDL, you can upload it.  I am eager to see what you have created. :)  Cbrown1023  talk  23:57, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Don't be that eager. ☺ All I've done so far is upload the half-width button to Commons:Image:Button hr halfwidth.png and replaced the blank template in MediaWiki:Common.js with its URL. It's not currently being rendered, so I'm not sure if it's a problem with my browser, a delay while the image is cached, or something I haven't done yet (or done right). My drawing skills are unimpressive, so it may take a while for me to come up with test icons along the lines I've suggested at MediaWiki talk:Common.js. As you said there, I hadn't yet noticed the current "button talk" for dialog speaker, which is what I was looking for for that, at least. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:29, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Bad translations
A newly created article, Mikhail Leontyev, raises a question which I don't believe we have dealt with so far. How do we deal with an article in which the translations are so bad as to make the article problematic? Should it be nominated for deletion? Should it be given a tag saying something along the line of "This article contains questionable translations," etc., with a view to improvement by subsequent editors? To keep the article simply as it is would reflect poorly on us, I would argue. How to deal with such articles depends on the degree of badness in question: 1) If an article contains just a few easily corrected errors (e.g., "indepted" for "indebted"), it can be edited by treating the errors as if they were typos. 2) If better translations can be found for bad ones, then substitutions can be made. For example, at one point we were sent some transwikied Wikipedia quotes of Voltaire. The translated quotes, supplied without the original French, were mediocre at best and were at times quite absurdly bad. Better translations were found along with the original French and were used as replacements. 3) If an article has links to the original language sources, another editor who knows the language can make better translations. This, however, raises another question.  Our current practice is to accept only existent translations on the grounds that they are verifiable and therefore credible.  It's a practice which, while understandable enough, makes the translation abilities of our editors entirely moot. Wikipedia, being a much larger operation than ours, has an entire system of translation requests, translators, proofreaders and so on.  But even if we had such means, we evidently could not make use of them according to our practice, which declines to accept what editors translate on their own initiative. Should we reconsider this stance? In my own view, our practice is insufficiently flexible. - InvisibleSun 01:53, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

 * My brain hurts! There are too many good questions being raised by everyone lately. I'll just toss out some quick thoughts here:
 * If the article contains lots of basic typos, how confident can we be that the actual meanings are accurate? Not only must we be concerned about the translator's command of English, we must also worry about the vast number of English words in which one letter can completely change the meaning or connotation. This is why one needs professional translators, not amateurs or translation programs.
 * We can always hope for better translations, but that raises the issue of how likely we'll get them. If the subject is barely known in the English-speaking world, we're not likely to get them at all. This also goes to the question of whether they achieve sufficient notability. One thing I've noticed is that not every person whom Wikipedians can find sufficient info on to create a decent WP article necessarily has enough pithy quotes to justify a Wikiquote article.
 * Because of the above, I still favor reliably-sourced quotes. But let's face it, any practice we have is only a position, and there will always be articles that don't follow these practices. Our policies are, de facto, loosely enforced and implicitly flexible.
 * If someone is sufficiently concerned about the quality of an article's translations that they bring it up at WQ:VFD, I don't have a problem with this. On the other hand, I can understand it if folks might be concerned it would be quickly voted for deletion, the fate of most articles we nominate. But I think that's because we still have plenty of wretched material to get rid of. As long as we commit to careful consideration of how to preserve an article (which is common enough for existing WP subjects who aren't obviously unquotable), perhaps VfD isn't too bad a forum. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 05:48, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Username guideline
moved to Wikiquote talk:Username policy

Wikimania 2007
The Third International Wikimedia Conference, Wikimania 2007 will be held in Taipei, ROC. Further information is found at the official website.

 * Call for participation is open.
 * Registration is open too.
 * You would like to apply for financial aid for your travel.

As for Scholarship, announced as follows: The Wikimedia Foundation is pleased to announce the availability of a limited number of scholarships for travel expenses to Wikimania 2007, the annual conference of the Wikimedia Foundation. The conference will be held in Taipei, Taiwan from August 3-5, 2007. For more information, or to apply, visit. The deadline for applications is April 1, 2007.

Please don't hesitate to take a chance to join! --Aphaia 17:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

1 Year Blocks & CheckUser
Recently, I have blocked two IP addresses for one year based on CheckUser evidence provided by a steward (the blocking time was also suggested by that steward). Aphaia and I were worried about the length of the block (1 year) because it goes against our blocking policy for IPs.  Cbrown1023  <font color="#002bb8">talk  18:30, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
 * As follow-up. The steward who dealt with the request was m:user:MaxSem (Thank you!). According to Cbrown1023, on #wikimedia-steward MaxSem told him the recent serial creation of inappropriate username accounts have come from two IP addresses. I think one year blocking with prohibition to create a new account from those addresses is not excessive and would help reducing  our workload. --Aphaia 18:39, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikiquote-l
We have a mailing list! I just got a mailing list created for our project (Wikiquote-l). You can sign up for it and read the list information at this link. If you would like be a moderator or administrator for the list, contact me (the list owner, I am linked from the bottom of the listinfo page). Unfortunately, I am only willing to make current sysops mods or admins for the list, but everyone else is welcome to subscribe (and please do)! Hopefully, this will be a mailing list for all the Wikiquote projects where we can talk about issues related to us all and ask for help on discussions.  Cbrown1023  <font color="#002bb8">talk  00:29, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Yay! You mean the newly created list is intended to serve the whole/global Wikiquote community rather than English Wikiquote? Just for clarification.
 * Yes. :)  Cbrown1023  <font color="#002bb8">talk  02:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think we are better to advertise the list ... including foundatio-l, Metapub or elsewhere we think appropriate :) Thanks, anyway! --Aphaia 01:52, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I will get around to that tomorrow, it is bed time for me now. :) I will definitely be posting it on a few other language Wikiquote Village pump's as well. :)  Cbrown1023  <font color="#002bb8">talk  02:06, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

pride
i posted this at the front discussion page, but wouldn't pride be a good catagory? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride

 * Hmm, what kind of articles do you think would go to that category? Just curious. --Aphaia 08:03, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

2001: A Space Odyssey
Does anyone have any thoughts on the recent addition of section headings within the dialogue section on this page? As enumerated on the Talk page, this was done so that a user could link to specific sections of the dialogue from other wikis. While I think the purpose is fine, I'm not sure I like the look of it on the page, and it certainly does not now conform to our templates. First, what do people think of this, and second is there another way to accomplish this without this change to the look of the page? ~ UDScott 11:56, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I am the culprit responsible for [&oldid=440059 these changes]. As I mentioned on the Talk page, I would like to be able to link to specific chunks of dialogue from elsewhere. As I later mentioned on the Talk page, another option is to replace the extra sub-section headings with invisible   name anchors. Reference: w:Help:Link. Visible headings are nice because it's easy to get a link from the page TOC, but I can live with looking at the page source to get the invisible name anchor. I'm not trying to rock any boats here, I'd just like to be able to link to specific bits of dialogue from elsewhere. If the now-larger TOC is the aesthetic problem, perhaps we could try a TOCright. Thanks for not just silently reverting my edits. I've edited on Wikipedia for a year, but I'm new to, and liable to blunder around violating every sort of rule. If a particular style guide governs a given article, it would be nice to link to it from the article's talk page, as is common on Wikipedia where many articles' talk pages display banners for the applicable WikiProject(s). --Teratornis 19:44, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't necessarily dislike your additions - they just are a different look than I am used to here, and represent a departure from the templates. I wanted to offer it up for discussion. I tend to like smaller TOCs and am not really in favor of the TOC on the right. But we'll see what others think. Should it be felt that the changes are intrusive, the invisible tags might be a better way to go. ~ UDScott 20:18, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree the intention is helpful ... but on a wiki anything can be changed including those subsection titles. It means external links would not work in the future. The use of div element and tag might be more flexible and not contradict with our manual of style, I suppose. --Aphaia 13:17, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Page titles can also change, so any normal link to a wiki could break. I would instead use a so-called (but who are we really kidding) Permanent link to avoid (or at least delay) this problem. --Teratornis 15:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Just a few thoughts:
 * An empty span element (e.g., ) prefacing the quoted text works as well as a div element, but is less likely to interfere with the other wiki markup. (Go to Latin proverbs and edit it to see an example.)
 * Dividing films into scene sections may provide a useful means to refine our current dialog-sourcing practice of sorting chronologically and including a leading scene description to pinpoint the scene for source checkers. In particular, films with clear act divisions (like 2001's "The Dawn of Man", the untitled Moon segment, "Jupiter Mission: Eighteen Months Later", and "Jupiter, and Beyond the Infinite") have logical sections.
 * I'm leery about using subheadings to separate dialog segments themselves, but it may not ultimately be a bad idea once we start getting serious about avoid copyright violation of film dialog. (Currently, many of our film articles have 20 or more dialog segments — never mind the plethora of character quotes — and so may be reasonably considered as copyvios by their copyright holders.)
 * I have no specific recommendation now, just these observations. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 13:54, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

 * (Smacking self on forehead in anguish) Yes, I meant  rather than , and I placed a   through my original error above, to reduce the chance of misguiding someone who might apply it. (Note to anguished self: try actually reading the style guidelines one links to, instead of re-confirming the unreliability of personal memory.) --Teratornis 15:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Hey, don't beat yourself up about it. I've seen div suggested and used safely with Mediawiki as well. Span is just a little more flexible, that's all. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 16:26, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Phyllis Schlafly
I was wondering if anyone could review Phyllis Schlafly; I just created it by taking a batch of quotes from other sites and trying to verify them as best I could. I'm looking for advice on style (I just ordered the sourced ones by date, and the unsourced alphabetically), on how I did my cites, and on whether my cites are considered reliable sources here (especially the New York Times one). Also, if someone with administrator powers could drop it in the front-page rotation of 'new articles', that would be extra sweet. grendel|khan 06:33, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Nicely and thoroughly done, Grendelkhan. I've made two changes, one for readers and one for editors.
 * I moved the full citation for multiple quotes to the first occurrence and added distinct but abbreviated citations for the subsequent quotes from the same source. This is because Wikiquote articles are normally full of unsourced quotes, many editors don't notice that we try to keep these in separate sections, and there is no single standard sort order imposed across all articles. The consequence is that it is very hard to tell if a quote that does not have an explicit source is grouped with others from the same source or simply one added by someone at a later date.
 * I also added a lot of non-printing whitespace to make it easier for editors to notice the separate elements in the article. Wikipedians have an unfortunate habit, reinforced by illogical default settings in automated tools, to squeeze all possible whitespace out of articles, rendering the result nearly impossible for non-geek editors to read, as if wiki editing were some kind of obfuscation contest. This problem is even worse for the highly formatted text of Wikiquote. It's always a good idea to use some minimal whitespace to separate segments of information from each other, wherever it can be done without affecting the displayed text.
 * I haven't checked the sources, tried to work on any of your comments in the text, or considered any potential balance issue for this controversial person, but overall, it's an excellent start to a substantial article. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 07:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I changed it over to formatting; it separates the citations from what they go to, but it makes it easier to keep the references uniform, while still dealing with the problem you explain above, of people adding unsourced quotes in blocks. (Also, good point about whitespace. I'll try to remember that.) grendel|khan 15:11, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

title: Wikiquote:Village pump archive 12


text:
User talk:137.99.152.70

~ Kalki 11:13, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:137.99.152.70


text:
User talk:213.42.2.11

~ Kalki 14:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Incidents of deliberate vandalism have resulted in this IP address being temporarily blocked from editing. ~ Kalki 18:26, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:213.42.2.11


text: Talk:Walker Percy

title: Talk:Walker Percy


text:
User talk:72.10.124.28

- InvisibleSun 15:21, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:72.10.124.28


text:
User talk:66.5.125.11

- InvisibleSun 16:28, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:66.5.125.11


text:
Talk:Ed, Edd, 'n Eddy

Less quotes PLEASE!
What good is a Wikiquote article if the whole freakin'  episode is quoted? And why are there so many grammatical errors?!  SOMEBODY HELP CLEAN IT UP!  Link 486 20:26, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree! Stratford490 20:52, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't. Episodes are better when fully quoted. JBT

Vandalism
65.67.67.33 has messed with the articles. --Toa of Mirrors 06:12, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

This page needs cleaning up and splitting into at least three parts
Soph 23:15, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Also removal of the character bits at the bottom - they don't really add anything to the article, and it would be much shorter. Removal of some quotes so there were only a few per episode would bring the size down too.

Removal of quotes

 * Seeing as there has been no reply regarding this page, and that the number of quotes far exceeds the limit on quotations (and therefore probably violates copyright) I am going to start reducing this page by removing poorer, unquoteworthy quotes. Although the limit per episode should be one (as it is under thirty minutes run-time) I will keep more if necessary. Please do not undo the changes. They are needed.
 * Once this is done I will cleanup and split if necessary.
 * Removing done: Season1. Songs. Specials. Characters. Some small sections. Still to do: Seasons 2-5; cleanup and split.
 * Removed songs sections as there is no need for it on wikiquote: these lyrics can be easily found on google, and wikiquote is not meant for song-lyrics.
 * Removed the character sections, as they contained poor, short, one-line quotes. Anything quote-worthy was moved to the "unidentified" section.

There should only be one quote per episode for this program as it is only 22 minutes long
Also, please see |Quotability Guidelines Soph (talk) 22:44, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, although actual running time may be only 22 minutes, by convention, it is considered to be a half-hour program and is thus eligible for 2 quotes per episode. This appears on WQ:LOQ where it states that the length of a show includes its commercial time. Thanks. ~ UDScott (talk) 00:10, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Trimmed, cleaned up, added cast,external links & intro
Soph (talk) 01:24, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

WTF!!! You guys have been doing some serious butchering on one of my favorite shows! On the other hand, it is a little less unweeldy now. Keep up the good work! Jdaniels15 (talk) 11:14, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Technically, if it's in breach of copyright, (as this article was - some episodes just quoted the entire episode) the entire Wikiquotes could be shut down, not just this page. Quotes need to be less than 250 words long, and, for this program AT MOST 2 quotes per episode. Soph (talk) 16:07, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ed, Edd, 'n Eddy


text:
User talk:35.11.236.16

~ UDScott 17:30, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:35.11.236.16


text:
User:Derek nyberg~enwikiquote

Did you ever wonder if a clown is in reality a gay mime?

title: User:Derek nyberg~enwikiquote


text:
User talk:207.63.98.5

~ UDScott 18:39, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:207.63.98.5