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Talk:Calvin Coolidge

Cleanup
I've added a cleanup tag to this article for three reasons: ~ Jeff Q (talk) 04:28, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) Only one proper source is provided in this entire article (the one I just added). We should be able to get sources for most of these quotes.
 * 2) The organization could use some review. For instance, "The quotable Coolidge" is superfluous; the article itself is supposed to be quotable Coolidge.
 * 3) Dialog is mixed in without clear formatting or attribution. I was tempted to fix this, but I think the sources should come first, because they may provide the proper format.

The quote referring to coming out of the burden of war is inadequately transcribed, and erroneously transcribed to include a (good) thought about education.

It comes from Coolidge's Thanksgiving Proclamation, as governor of Massachusetts, on November 27, 1919. I found it here: https://books.google.com/books?id=sp1KAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA144&lpg=PA144&dq=condition+of+those+who+toil+is+higher,+better,+more+secure+than+in+all+the+ages+past&source=bl&ots=XxIS2VKIA9&sig=KioOOtX8hmGZXlVs_fPq60ZqP6U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=IwH2VNq6O_K0sAT2oYGQAQ&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=condition%20of%20those%20who%20toil%20is%20higher%2C%20better%2C%20more%20secure%20than%20in%20all%20the%20ages%20past&f=false

The education clause is completely missing at that source.

Edarrell (talk) 18:55, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

But at this source, I find he borrowed his previous words, and added the education clause -- in a 78 rpm recording of speeches used by the Harding/Coolidge campaign in that era before radio was available. http://www.albany.edu/talkinghistory/arch2006july-december.html  Edarrell (talk) 19:16, 3 March 2015 (UTC)

"all off the record"
I'm not sure about this attribution or misattribution, somebody check it If it is not a real qoute its still important because it shows what people thought of him -- 151.213.94.28 04:03, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
 * A reporter was granted a private interview with Coolidge. Coolidge read through the questions and answered each with "no comment".  As the reporter was leaving Coolidge called out "Remeber, that was all off the record"

 * A quick review of Barlett's and Oxford yield no results (although it did give me an excuse to source 4 other quotes and tweak a speech article on Wikisource). I guess we'll have to keep looking. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 07:03, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Speech recording
Is there anything noteworthy to draw from Image:America and the War (Calvin Coolidge).ogg? Maybe some of these quotes come from it... I haven't been able to check. Bigbluefish 00:22, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

On government

 * There is an obligation to forgive but it does not extend to the unrepentant. To give them aid and comfort is to support their evil doing and to become what is known in law as an accessory after the fact. A government which does that is a reproach to civilization and will soon have on its hands the blood of its citizens.

 * The conduct of public affairs is not a game. Responsible office does not go to the crafty. Governments are not founded upon an association for public plunder but on the cooperation of men wherein each is seeking to do his duty.

 * There are among us a great mass of people who have been reared for generations under a government of tyranny and oppression. It is ingrained in their blood that there is no other form of government. They are disposed and inclined to think our institutions partake of the same nature as these they have left behind. We know they are wrong. They must be shown they are wrong.

 * There is a just government. There are righteous laws. We know the formula by which they are produced. The principle is best stated in the immortal Declaration of Independence to be "the consent of the governed".

 * Good government cannot be bought, it has to be given. Office has great opportunities for doing wrong, but equal chance for doing right.

 * Vermont is a state I love. I could not look upon the peaks of Ascutney, Killington, Mansfield, and Equinox, without being moved in a way that no other scene could move me. It was here that I first saw the light of day; here I received my bride, here my dead lie pillowed on the loving breast of our eternal hills.

 * Government cannot relieve from toil. The normal must take care of themselves. Self-government means self-support… Ultimately property rights and personal rights are the same thing… History reveals no civilized people among whom there was not a highly educated class and large aggregations of wealth. Large profits mean large payrolls.

On Money

 * "Collecting more taxes than is absolutely necessary is legalized robbery."

 * "Economy is the method by which we prepare today to afford the improvements of tomorrow."

 * "There is but a fixed quantity of wealth in this country at any fixed time. The only way that we can all secure more of it is to create more."

 * The method of raising revenue ought not to impede the transition of business; it ought to encourage it. I am opposed to extremely high rates, because they produce little or no revenue, because they are bad for the country, and, finally, because they are wrong. We cannot finance the country, we cannot improve social conditions, through any system of injustice, even if we attempt to influence it upon the rich… The wise and correct course to follow in taxation and in all other economic legislation is not to destroy those who have already secured success but to create conditions under which every one will have a better chance to be successful.

 * "I am cool because my name is Calvin Coolidge.

On being President

 * I can find no Constitutional authorization for this bill.
 * response after vetoing bills

 * We have enough laws already, I don't need to sign any more.
 * explanation for taking a vacation for the entire summer

 * There's no chance for job advancement.
 * after being asked why he would not seek re-election

On crime

 * I sometimes wish that people would put a little more emphasis upon the observance of the law than they do upon its enforcement.

Witticism

 * visiting lady at the White House: Mr. President, earlier this evening, I had made a bet that I can make you say more than two words. Coolidge: You lose.

 * They criticize me for harping on the obvious. Perhaps someday I'll write On the Importance of the Obvious. If all the folks in the United States would do the few simple things they know they ought to do, most of our big problems would take care of themselves.

 * If you don't say anything, you won't be called on to repeat it.

On war and veterans

 * The Nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten.
 * appearing on the front face of a flyer distributed by Foundation for American Veterans, 1920

On word usage and meaning

 * I am not conscious of having any particular style about my writings. If I have any, it is undoubtedly due to my training in the construction of legal papers, where it is necessary in the framing of a contract, or the drawing of a pleading, to say what you mean and mean what you say in terms sufficiently clear and concise so that your adversary will not be able to misinterpret them, or to divert the trial into a discussion of unimportant matters. The rule is to state the case with as little diffusion as possible.

The quotable Coolidge

 * Duty is not collective; it is personal.

 * A man must eat. (when asked why he attends functions if he doesn't like talking to anybody).

 * I favor the policy of economy, not because I wish to save money, but because I wish to save people. The men and women of this country who toil are the ones who bear the cost of the Government.  Every dollar that we carelessly waste means that their life will be so much the more meager.  Every dollar that we prudently save means that their life will be so much the more abundant.  Economy is idealism in its most practical form.

 * There is no dignity quite so impressive, and no one independence quite so important, as living within your means.

 * It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.

 * Send the bill to the King of England. (said to a contractor replacing fire-damaged beams in the White House)

 * 45,000. I haven't caught all of them yet, but I've intimidated them. (when asked how many fish were in the river he fished)

 * There is no moral standard so high that the people cannot be raised up to it.

 * There is only one form of political strategy in which I have any confidence, and that is to try to do the right thing and sometimes succeed.

 * The people who start to elect a man to get what he can for his district will probably find they have elected a man who will get what he can for himself.

 * Prosperity is only an instrument to be used, not a deity to be worshipped.

 * The attempt to regulate, control, and prescribe all manner of conduct and social relations is very old. It was always the practice of primitive peoples.

 * The normal must care for themselves.

 * They picked the Vice President for Harding, and they chose a durned fine man. (on whether he'd try to influence the nomination of vice presidential candidates)

 * I don't recall any candidate for President that ever injured himself very much by not talking.

 * The measure of success is not merchandise but character.

 * "It is rather difficult for me to pick out one thing…The country has been at peace during that time. It hasn't had any marked commercial or financial depression…it has been a time of a fair degree of prosperity…there has been employment for everyone who wished employment…a time of marked peace in industry as between employer and employees…a large reduction in the national debt, considerable reduction in taxes." ~ on his legacy

 * "When more and more people are thrown out of work, unemployment results"

Quotes about Coolidge

 * Isn't it past your bedtime, Calvin?
 * Groucho Marx, breaking character to address President Coolidge after he learned that the President was in the audience of their Broadway show.

 * [President Coolidge's] active inactivity suits the mood and certain of the needs of the country admirably. It suits all the business interests which want to be let alone… And it suits all those who have become convinced that government in this country has become dangerously complicated and top-heavy…
 * Walter Lippmann, 1926

 * As president, Calvin Coolidge didn't do much of anything, but at the time, that's what we needed to have done.
 * Will Rogers

Bolded
Is there a significance to the bolded quotes, or are they bolded by mistake? King jakob c 2 (talk) 23:47, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

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Jack Thompson (attorney)

John Bruce "Jack" Thompson (born July 25, 1951) is an American activist who was an American attorney often cited in the media for his extreme views on the effects of obscenity and violence in popular media.

Quotes

 * You just watch. There is going to be a Columbine-times-10 incident, and everyone will finally get it. Either that, or some video gamer is going to go Columbine at some video game exec's expense or at E3, and then the industry will begin to realize that there is no place to hide, that it has trained a nation of Manchurian Children.

 * This is not rocket science. When a kid who has never killed anyone in his life goes on a rampage and looks like the Terminator, he's a video gamer.

 * Grand Theft Auto IV is the gravest assault upon children in this country since polio. We now have vaccines for that virus... The 'vaccine' that must be administered by the United States government to deal with this virtual virus of violence and sexual depravity is criminal prosecutions of those who have conspired to do this.
 * Letter to US Attorney R. Alexander Acosta, quoted in

Quotes about Jack Thompson

 * I'm only interested in virile men. That's why I'm not attracted to you.
 * , quoted on "The Virtue Vigilante", Nightline,
 * in response to Thompson, her opponent for prosecutor, handing her a letter at a campaign event that asked her to check a box indicating whether she was homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual

title: Jack Thompson (attorney)


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Lucy Stone

Lucy Stone (13 August 1818 – 18 October 1893) was an American social activist and suffragette. She was married to abolitionist Henry Brown Blackwell and the mother of Alice Stone Blackwell.

Quotes

 * I know, Mother, you feel badly and that you would prefer to have me take some other course, if I could in conscience. Yet, Mother, I know you too well to suppose that you would wish me to turn away from what I think is my duty. I surely would not be a public speaker if I sought a life of ease, for it will be a most laborious one; nor would I do it for the sake of honor, for I know that I shall be disesteemed, even hated, by some who are now my friends, or who profess to be. Neither would I do it if I sought wealth, because I could secure it with far more ease and worldly honor by being a teacher. If I would be true to myself, true to my Heavenly Father, I must pursue that course of conduct which, to me, appears best calculated to promote the highest good of the world.
 * Letter to her mother (14 March 1847)

 * If, while I hear the shriek of the slave mother robbed of her little ones, I do not open my mouth for the dumb, am I not guilty? Or should I go from house to house to do it, when I could tell so many more in less time, if they should be gathered in one place? You would not object or think it wrong, for a man to plead the cause of the suffering and the outcast; and surely the moral character of the act is not changed because it is done by a woman. I expect to plead not for the slave only, but for suffering humanity everywhere. Especially do I mean to labor for the elevation of my sex. I only ask that you will not withhold your consent from my doing anything that I think is my duty to do.
 * Letter to her mother (14 March 1847)

 * This letter writing is a miserable way of communicating, after all, though I would not on any account be deprived of it. But when ones soul is full, and only a little sheet, to put it into, it is so aggravating. There are so many things I want to say, and feel with you, that I dont know where to begin.
 * Letter to Antoinette Brown (c. August 1849) as quoted in Friends and Sisters: Letters Between Lucy Stone and Antoinette Brown Blackwell, 1846–93  (1987) edited by Carol Lasser and Marlene Merrill

 * Women are in bondage; their clothes are a great hindrance to their engaging in any business which will make them pecuniarily independent, and since the soul of womanhood never can be queenly and noble so long as it must beg bread for its body, is it not better, even at the expense of a vast deal of annoyance, that they whose lives deserve respect and are greater than their garments should give an example by which woman may more easily work out her own emancipation?
 * Letter to Susan B. Anthony (1854); as quoted in The Life and Work of Susan B. Anthony (1898) by Ida Husted Harper.

 * We want rights. The flour merchant, the house-builder, and the postman charge us no less on account of our sex; but when we endeavor to earn money to pay all these, then, indeed, we find the interest.
 * Remark made at a National Woman's Rights Convention in Cincinnati, Ohio. (1855) as quoted in Feminism: The Essential Historical Writings (1972) by Miriam Schnier
 * Variant: ...when we endeavor to earn money to pay all these, then, indeed, we find the difference.

 * Too much has already been said and written about "women's sphere". Leave women, then, to find their sphere.
 * Remark made at a National Woman's Rights Convention in Cincinnati, Ohio. (1855), quoted in Feminism: The Essential Historical Writings (1972) by Miriam Schnier

 * The last speaker alluded to this movement as being that of a few disappointed women. From the first years to which my memory stretches, I have been a disappointed woman... I was disappointed when I came to seek a profession worthy an immortal being—every employment was closed to me, except those of the teacher, the seamstress, and the housekeeper. In education, in marriage, in religion, in everything, disappointment is the lot of woman. It shall be the business of my life to deepen this disappointment in every woman's heart until she bows down to it no longer.
 * Remark made at a National Woman's Rights Convention in Cincinnati, Ohio. (1855) as quoted in Feminism: The Essential Historical Writings (1972) by Miriam Schnier

 * I know not what you believe of God, but I believe He gave yearnings and longings to be filled, and that He did not mean all our time should be devoted to feeding and clothing the body.
 * "Disappointment Is the Lot of Women" oration (17 or 18 October 1855) quoted in Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B. Antony, and Mathilda Gage, History of Woman Suffrage, vol. 1 (1881)

 * All over this land women have no political existence. Laws pass over our heads that we can not unmake. Our property is taken from us without our consent. The babes we bear in anguish and carry in our arms are not ours.
 * Speech as president of a national convention of the Woman's National Loyal League (14 May 1863)

 * I believe that the influence of woman will save the country before every other power.
 * Arguing for woman suffrage at an anniversary celebration of the Equal Rights Association (12 May 1869); as quoted in History of Woman Suffrage, Vol. 2 (1882) by Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony, and Matilda Joslyn Gage

 * You may talk about Free Love, if you please, but we are to have the right to vote. Today we are fined, imprisoned, and hanged, without a jury trial by our peers. You shall not cheat us by getting us off to talk about something else. When we get the suffrage, then you may taunt us with anything you please, and we will then talk about it as long as you please.
 * Speaking at an anniversary celebration of the Equal Rights Association in New York, responding to Rev. Mrs. Hanaford, who had asked that the assembly disavow "Free Loveism," as being upsetting and alienating to "the Christian men and women of New England everywhere." (12 May 1869), quoted in Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony, and Matilda Joslyn Gage, History of Woman Suffrage, vol. 2 (1882)

 * We believe in marriage for life, and deprecate all this loose, pestiferous talk in favor of easy divorce... Be not deceived — free love means free lust.
 * In an 1870 writing making it clear that those wishing for "free divorce" were not associated with Stone's organization, American Woman Suffrage Association (AWSA)

 * It is not quite the same when we are seventy-two as when we are twenty-seven; still I am glad of what is left, and wish we might both hold out till the victory we have sought is won, but all the same the victory is coming. In the aftertime the world will be the better for it.
 * Letter to Susan B. Anthony (1891); as quoted in The Life and Work of Susan B. Anthony (1898) by Ida Husted Harper.

 * We have every reason to rejoice when there are so many gains and when favorable conditions abound on every hand. The end is not yet in sight, but it can not be far away. The road before us is shorter than the road behind.
 * A letter read by her husband, suffragist Henry Blackwell, to the twenty-fifth annual convention of the National Woman Suffrage Association (1893); as quoted in History of Woman Suffrage, Vol. 4 (1902) by Susan B. Anthony and Ida Husted Harper

 * Make the world better.
 * Last recorded words; said to her daughter. (October 1893)

Marriage protest (1855)

 * A statement signed by Lucy Stone and Henry Blackwell prior to their marriage (1 May 1855). The Rev. Thomas Wentworth Higginson read the statement at the ceremony, and also distributed it to other ministers.

 * While acknowledging our mutual affection by publicly assuming the relationship of husband and wife, yet in justice to ourselves and a great principle, we deem it a duty to declare that this act on our part implies no sanction of, nor promise of voluntary obedience to such of the present laws of marriage, as refuse to recognize the wife as an independent, rational being, while they confer upon the husband an injurious and unnatural superiority, investing him with legal powers which no honorable man would exercise, and which no man should possess.

 * We believe that personal independence and equal human rights can never be forfeited, except for crime; that marriage should be an equal and permanent partnership, and so recognized by law; that until it is so recognized, married partners should provide against the radical injustice of present laws, by every means in their power...

The Progress of Fifty Years (1893)

 * Her last public speech, to the Congress of Women at the Woman's Building of the World's Columbian Exposition (World's Fair), Chicago, Illinois.

 * The commencement of the last fifty years is about the beginning of that great change and improvement in the condition of women which exceeds all the gains of hundreds of years before.

 * In 1833, Oberlin College, in Ohio, was founded. Its charter declared its grand object, - "To give the most useful education at the least expense of health, time, and money, and to extend the benefits of such education to both sexes and to all classes; and the elevation of the female character by bringing within the reach of the misjudged and neglected sex all the instructive privileges which have hitherto unreasonably distinguished the leading sex from theirs." These were the words of Father Shippen, which, if not heard in form, were heard in fact as widely as the world. The opening of Oberlin to women marked an epoch.

 * Get but a truth once uttered, and 'tis like A star new born that drops into its place; And which, once circling in its placid round, Not all the tumult of the earth can shake. Henceforth the leaves of the tree of knowledge were for women, and for the healing of the nations.

 * Whatever the reason, the idea was born that women could and should be educated. It lifted a mountain load from woman. It shattered the idea, everywhere pervasive as the atmosphere, that women were incapable of education, and would be less womanly, less desirable in every way, if they had it. However much it may have been resented, women accepted the idea of their intellectual inequality. I asked my brother: "Can girls learn Greek?"

 * The anti-slavery cause had come to break stronger fetters than those that held the slave. The idea of equal rights was in the air. The wail of the slave, his clanking fetters, his utter need, appealed to everybody. Women heard. Angelina and Sarah Grimké and Abby Kelley went out to speak for the slaves. Such a thing had never been heard of. An earthquake shock could hardly have startled the community more. Some of the abolitionists forgot the slave in their efforts to silence the women. The Anti-Slavery Society rent itself in twain over the subject. The Church was moved to its very foundation in opposition.

 * The press, many-tongued, surpassed itself in reproaches upon these women who had so far departed from their sphere as to speak in public. But, with anointed lips and a consecration which put even life itself at stake, these peerless women pursued the even tenor of their way, saying to their opponents only: "Woe is me, if I preach not this gospel of freedom for the slave." Over all came the melody of Whittier's "When woman's heart is breaking Shall woman's voice be hushed? "

 * I think, with never-ending gratitude, that the young women of today do not and can never know at what price their right to free speech and to speak at all in public has been earned.

 * Abby Kelly once entered a church only to find herself the subject of the sermon, which was preached from the text: " This Jezebel is come among us also." They jeered at her as she went along the street. They threw stones at her. They pelted her with bad eggs as she stood on the platform. Some of the advocates of the very cause for which she endured all this were ready to drive her from the field.

 * The right to education and to free speech having been gained for woman, in the long run every other good thing was sure to be obtained.

 * Half a century ago women were at an infinite disadvantage in regard to their occupations. The idea that their sphere was at home, and only at home, was like a band of steel on society. But the spinning-wheel and the loom, which had given employment to women, had been superseded by machinery, and something else had to take their places. The taking care of the house and children, and the family sewing, and teaching the little summer school at a dollar per week, could not supply the needs nor fill the aspirations of women. But every departure from these conceded things was met with the cry, "You want to get out of your sphere," or, "To take women out of their sphere;" and that was to fly in the face of Providence, to unsex yourself in short, to be monstrous women, women who, while they orated in public, wanted men to rock the cradle and wash the dishes. We pleaded that whatever was fit to be done at all might with propriety be done by anybody who did it well; that the tools belonged to those who could use them; that the possession of a power presupposed a right to its use.

 * When Elizabeth Blackwell studied medicine and put up her sign in New York, she was regarded as fair game, and was called a "she doctor." The college that had admitted her closed its doors afterward against other women; and supposed they were shut out forever. But Dr. Blackwell was a woman of fine intellect, of great personal worth and a level head. How good it was that such a woman was the first doctor! She was well equipped by study at home and abroad, and prepared to contend with prejudice and every opposing thing.

 * The first woman minister, Antoinette Brown, had to meet ridicule and opposition that can hardly be conceived to-day. Now there are women ministers, east and west, all over the country.

 * In Massachusetts, where properly qualified "persons" were allowed to practice law, the Supreme Court decided that a woman was not a "person," and a special act of the legislature had to be passed before Miss Lelia Robinson could be admitted to the bar. But today women are lawyers.

 * Fifty years ago the legal injustice imposed upon women was appalling. Wives, widows and mothers seemed to have been hunted out by the law on purpose to see in how many ways they could be wronged and made helpless. A wife by her marriage lost all right to any personal property she might have. The income of her land went to her husband, so that she was made absolutely penniless. If a woman earned a dollar by scrubbing, her husband had a right to take the dollar and go and get drunk with it and beat her afterwards. It was his dollar. If a woman wrote a book the copyright of the same belonged to her husband and not to her. The law counted out in many states how many cups and saucers, spoons and knives and chairs a widow might have when her husband died. I have seen many a widow who took the cups she had bought before she was married and bought them again after her husband died, so as to have them legally. The law gave no right to a married woman to any legal existence at all. Her legal existence was suspended during marriage. She could neither sue nor be sued. If she had a child born alive the law gave her husband the use of all her real estate as long as he should live, and called it by the pleasant name of "the estate by courtesy." When the husband died the law gave the widow the use of one-third of the real estate belonging to him, and it was called the "widow's encumbrance."

 * While the law dealt thus with her in regard to her property, it dealt still more hardly with her in regard to her children. No married mother could have any right to her child, and in most of the states of the Union that is the law to-day. But the law's in regard to the personal and property rights of women have been greatly changed and improved, and we are very grateful to the men who have done it.

 * By what toil and fatigue and patience and strife and the beautiful law of growth has all this been wrought? These things have not come of themselves. They could not have occurred except as the great movement for women has brought them out and about. They are part of the eternal order, and they have come to stay. Now all we need is to continue to speak the truth fearlessly, and we shall add to our number those who will turn the scale to the side of equal and full justice in all things.

Quotes about Stone

 * I never saw that great woman, Mary Wollstonecraft, but I l have read her eloquent and unanswerable arguments in behalf of the liberty of womankind. I have met and known most of the progressive women who came after her — Lucretia Mott, the Grimké sisters, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Lucy Stone — a long galaxy of great women. I have heard them speak, saying in only slightly different phrases exactly what I heard these newer advocates of the cause say at these meetings. Those older women have gone on and most of those who work with me in the early years have gone. I am here for a little time only and then my place will be filled as theirs was filled. The fight must not cease; you must see that it does not stop. There have been others also just as true and devoted to the cause — I wish I could name every one — but with such women consecrating their lives, failure is impossible!
 * Susan B. Anthony speech February 15, 1906 — 38th Annual Convention, National American Woman Suffrage Association, Baltimore MD

 * Mrs. R. (Ernestine Rose) and myself were talking of the know nothing organizations [the anti-immigrant American Party], when she criticized Lucy Stone and Wendell Philips with regard to their feelings toward foreigners. Said she had heard them both express themselves in terms of prejudice against granting to foreigners the rights of Citizenship.
 * Susan B. Anthony 1854 letter in Mistress of Herself: Speeches and Letters of Ernestine Rose edited by Paula Doress-Worters (2008)

 * Lucy Stone came closest to expressing the dilemma confronting the men and women who debated this issue [the 15th Amendment], and a dilemma it was, for she could not resolve the question of priority either: "Mrs. Stanton will, of course, advocate the precedence of her sex, and Mr. Douglass will strive for the first position for his, and both are perhaps right. If it be true that the government derives its authority from the consent of the governed, we are safe in trusting that principle to the uttermost. If one has a right to say that you cannot read and therefore cannot vote, then it may be said that you are a woman and therefore can not vote. We are lost if we turn away from the middle principle and argue for one class....There are two great oceans; in the one is the black man, and in the other is woman. But I thank God for the XV Amendment, and hope that it will be adopted in every State. I will be thankful in my soul if any body can get out of this terrible pit. But I believe that the safety of the government would be more promoted by the admission of woman as an element of restoration and harmony than the negro. I believe that the influence of woman will save the country before every other power”...Precisely because passage of the Fifteenth Amendment was intended to advance the cause of Afro-American freedom, it inevitably would have rebounded to the benefit of woman, but only a class-conscious element could have seen that point in 1869. Douglass and Stone came closest to understanding it, but neither one could develop an analysis that did not rest upon making one oppression more important than the other.
 * Bettina Aptheker Woman's Legacy: Essays on Race, Sex, and Class in American History (1982)

 * I remember always how beautiful and how heavenly sweet and splendid was our best woman, Lucy Stone, the ornament of the human race.
 * Catherine Breshkovsky 1911 writing in The Little Grandmother of the Russian Revolution edited by Alice Stone Blackwell 1918

 * One thing causes me sorrow. It is the thought that the name of Lucy Stone, so often mentioned in her Journal, is known to few persons, and that the young generation pronounce that venerable name only by heart, without understanding how great and holy it is...You have no right to leave the world without giving it the biography of your noble and beautiful mother. You have no right to rob posterity of such a treasure. Humanity is not yet too rich in beautiful examples not to show them to us as largely as possible. We need to have before us such images as can inspire us, teach us.
 * Catherine Breshkovsky June 1912 letter in The Little Grandmother of the Russian Revolution edited by Alice Stone Blackwell 1918

 * On another occasion, I returned to Boston, where Cell 16 had fulfilled one of my dreams by organizing a forum in historic Fannueil Hall in old Boston. In that hall, Lucy Stone, the Grimké sisters, Sojourner Truth, William Lloyd Garrison, John Brown, and Frederick Douglass had held antislavery and profeminist meetings during the decades before the Civil War. Their legacy had motivated me to move to Boston to launch female liberation.
 * Roxanne Dunbar-Ortiz Outlaw Woman: A Memoir of the War Years 1960-1975 (2002)

 * Nor let it be said that we have forgot/The women who stood with Lucretia Mott;/Nor her who to the world was known/By the simple name of Lucy Stone.
 * Frances Harper in Poems (1998)

 * In all action taken under her supervision, Mrs. Stone was most careful that the main issue should be constantly presented and kept in view. While welcoming every reform which gave evidence of the ethical progress of the community, she yet held to woman suffrage, pure and simple, as the first condition upon which the new womanhood should base itself. Efforts were often made to entangle suffrage with the promise of endless reforms in various directions, but firm as Cato, who always repeated his words that Carthage should be destroyed, Lucy Stone always asked for suffrage because it is right and just that women should have it...What had she to work with? A silver voice, a winning smile, the great gift of a persuasive utterance. What had she to work from? A deep and abiding faith in divine justice and in man’s ability to follow its laws and to execute its decrees...Here she was still debarred the right to cast her ballot at the polls, but lo, in the blue urn of heaven her life was received, one glowing and perfect vote for the rights of women, for the good of humanity, for the Kingdom of god on earth.
 * Julia Ward Howe, "In Remembrance of Lucy Stone" (February 15, 1894)

 * Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Susan B. Anthony, Amelia Bloomer, Carrie Nation, Frances Willard, Lucy Stone, Lucretia Mott, and the later suffragists of whom she [her mother] was one. These courageous women set a pattern not understood yet, standing in their prim strength, in their sweetness and sobriety against cruel ridicule, moral censure, charges of insanity; for there is no cruelty like that of the oppressor who feels his loss of the bit on those it has been his gain to oppress. "Pine knots as we are," Susan Anthony said. They used the only means open to them - they became orators when it was considered immoral for a woman to speak in public; if she went to meetings she was only to listen and learn. But they could use their constitutional right of petition, and they could tramp up and down, getting signatures for the right to work, to get a divorce, to speak in public, to vote.
 * Meridel Le Sueur "Crusaders" (1955)

 * Through the Quakers, who believed in equality for women, I first came into touch with the woman suffrage movement. I began to be very much interested in the question, especially after reading about Lucy Stone, one of the earliest fighters against Negro slavery, and a leader for many years in the struggle for woman's suffrage.
 * Ella Reeve Bloor We Are Many: An Autobiography (1940)

 * I have half-believed for a long time that you were preparing for a public speaker, though I hoped I might be mistaken. Not that I think I wrong in itself, but because I think it an employment a great many grades below, what I believe my only and dearly loved sister qualified to engage in. I don't hardly know what you mean by "laboring for the restoration and salvation of our sex" but I conclude you mean a salvation from some thralldom imposed by man. Now my sister I don't believe woman is groaning under half so heavy a yoke of bondage as you imagine. I am sure I do not feel burdened by anything man has laid upon me, be sure I can't vote, but what care I for that, I would not if I could. I know there is a distinction made in the wages of males and females when they perform the same labor, this I think is unjust, and it is the only thing in which woman is oppressed, that I know of, but women have no one to blame, but themselves in this matter. If as a general thing they had qualified themselves, as men have they would command the same price, but they have not, and the few who have are obliged to suffer on that account. I think my sister if you would spend the remainder of your life in educating our sex, you would do afar greater good than you will if you spend your noble energies in forever hurling "back the insults and indignities that men heap upon us." This I am sure you can never do "by the grace of God" for it is entirely contrary to his spirit and teachings. My sister commit your ways unto the Lord, and he will direct your steps.
 * Letter from Lucy's sister, Sarah Stone (28 November 1846)

 * Now Miss Lucy, you will hear what Mother thinks about your Public Speaking. Mother said she had rather you would marry and have a pair [of] twin babies every year. She did not say how many years. Mother cannot bear to think of your Preaching or Lecturing. She thinks it is a wrong course for you to take, says if you go to Lecturing you will fix it so you can’t keep school. Mother wants you should Teach, she thinks you would do the most good that way. You will want to know [my] mind. I don’t know what to tell you. You know it will make much talk in our quarter of the World. You will do that which seems right in your own eyes. I suppose, to be honest, I like mother’s plan better than yours. You are of age to [do] that which you think is your duty. Mother says she cannot find no place where Christ ever sent Women to Preach. We shall want to hear from you as soon as you get this, you will write what you think about Mother’s plan.
 * Letter from Lucy’s father, Francis Stone

 * The Bible says, “Let your women keep silence.” It is flying in the face of Providence!
 * Letter from Lucy’s mother, Hannah Stone

 * If you think you have got brass enough, and can do more good by giving public lectures than any other way, I say go to it. But Mother doesn’t like the idea.
 * Letter from Lucy’s brother, Frank Stone; to which his wife added a postscript: Lucy, if there should be any probability of your changing your mind, I hope you will let Mother Stone know it the first thing, for she feels dreadfully about it. Mother wants you to think carefully of it, and see if you cannot do more good teaching than by lecturing. And if you think you must lecture, she wants to know if you don’t think you could do more good by going from house to house...

 * I believe Sarah said in her last letter that if you intend lecturing she hoped you would not come into this State. I wish you to do what you think is your duty. If you violate your sense of duty to please your friends, you will lose more than you will gain.
 * Letter from Lucy’s brother, Bowman Stone

Lucy Stone: Pioneer of Women's Rights (1930)

 * A biography written by her daughter Alice Stone Blackwell

 * At the low wages then paid to women, it took Lucy nine years to save up money enough to enter college. There was no difficulty as to the choice of an alma mater. There was only one college that admitted women.

 * The young men had to hold debates as part of their work in rhetoric, and the young women were required to be present, for an hour and a half every week, in order to help form an audience for the boys, but were not allowed to take part.

 * A few of the young women, led by Lucy, organized the first debating society ever formed among college girls. At first they held their meetings secretly in the woods, with sentinels on the watch to give warming of intruders. When the weather grew colder, Lucy asked an old colored woman who owned a small house, the mother of one of her colored pupils, to let them have the use of her parlor. At first she was doubtful, fearing that the meetings might be a cover for flirtation; but when she found that the debating society was made up of girls only, she decided that it must be an innocent affair, and gave her consent. Her house was on the outskirts of the town, and the girls came one or two at a time, so as not to attract attention. Lucy opened the first formal meeting with the following statement:  "We shall leave this college with the reputation of a thorough collegiate course, yet not one of us has received any rhetorical or elocutionary training. Not one of us could state a question or argue it in successful debate. For this reason I have proposed the formation of this association."

title: Lucy Stone


text:
Scott Ramsoomair

Scott Ramsoomair (born 24 March 1981) is the author of the web comic VG Cats.

Front page of VG Cats

 * Saturday, August 6, 2005 4:26 PM - Jacko
 * I'm fairly sure Jack Thompson isn't right in the head. Forwards an email to me about Killer 7. I email him back. He threatens legal action for harrasment. Wtf?
 * Read the full thing here.
 * Edit: Yes I checked the headers. Same IP, it was him both times and not a spoof.

[I honestly don't think the man is there in the head.]

title: Scott Ramsoomair


text:
User talk:Peter Kirby~enwikiquote

~ MosheZadka (Talk) 10:11, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Peter Kirby. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Peter Kirby~enwikiquote that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:32, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 05:54, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Peter Kirby~enwikiquote


text:
User talk:83.77.10.43

Deliberate vandalism can result in IP numbers being blocked from editing. ~ Kalki 11:31, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:83.77.10.43


text:
Asenaca Caucau

Adi Asenaca Coboiverata Caucau-Filipe (commonly known simply as Adi Asenaca Caucau) is a Fijian Cabinet Minister, who has held the Women, Social Welfare, and Poverty Alleviation portfolios since 2001.

Parliamentary speech, 28 July 2002 (and aftermath)

 * "I am simply stating a fact and it was not meant to be racist" - reaction to subsequent calls for an apology.

Opening address to the Pacific Regional Media Training Workshop on "Women's Issues, Women's Voices," January 2005

 * "There seems to be a lot of love-hate relationships in Fiji today, between so many and the media, simply because there are so many negative reporting and a serious lack of understanding on journalists' part on working on reports or their stories. I am actually hoping for more from the Fiji media and the region, we need a whole lot more positive reporting."

 * "I ask the media to concentrate on positive things rather than just doing the rounds on rape, incest, molestation on women."

Parliamentary speech, 9 August 2005

 * "A key strategy towards restoring stability is developing targeted approaches to poverty reduction across different sectors coupled with the specific social provisions for the poor and the most vulnerable groups in society."

Statement about beggars, 7 November 2005)
 Source: Fiji Sun

 * "We invite them here to learn basic skills and we have even paid for them to do courses at TPAF because that’s what they said they wanted to do. But after that they just move back on the streets and amongst them are some who are renting out their houses."

 * "The young people will think that begging is okay and if you are finding difficulties you can just go on the streets and beg."

 * "Some of them pretend to be disabled or lie that they are orphans just to be able to get sympathy and money. So for the beggars it should not be an issue any more, they should be taken off the streets."

Miscellaneous quotes

 * "All over the world people are dying of poverty but that is not the case here in Fiji because the beauty about Fiji is that people are always ready to help those in need."

 * "There are only a certain number of people who are begging. These are the same people and the assumption that begging is increasing is in fact wrong because it is the same people who keep moving about."

title: Asenaca Caucau


text:
Wikiquote:Templates/People

Full Name (Date of birth–Date of death) followed by a simple brief note on a person's occupations and social roles. In this and other commentary locations one can optionally provide pertinent links to other locations within Wikiquote, the Wikipedia, or other Wikimedia projects. Please use complete sentences and write dates as YYYY-MM-DD. (Dates written in this format will appear to logged-in users in their selected date format, with links to assist the Quote of the day team.)

Quotes

 * English quotation.
 * Full citation for quote, including co-authors (if any), title, and the specific edition you are citing.
 * Optional clarifications, notes on context, etc.

 * Non-English quotation.
 * Translation: English translation
 * Full citation. Include references for both the original-language source and the translation you are using. If the original language text is not available, use the "English quotation" form instead.
 * Optional clarifications, notes on context, etc.

Specific novel/play/work (date published or created)
Additional bibliographic details may be included in an introductory sentence, so they need not be repeated for each quotation.
 * Book/Play1 (Book/Play1)
 * Book/Play2 (Book/Play2)

title: Wikiquote:Templates/People


text:
Wikiquote:Templates/Films

Title is a YEAR film about (...quick description...).
 * Directed by director. Written by writer.

Tag line of the movie (taglines)

Character1

 * (...quote...)

 * (...quote...)

Character2

 * (...quote...)

 * (...quote...)

Other

 * Character4: (...quote...)

 * Character5: (...quote...)

Dialogue

 * Character2: (...quote...)
 * Character4: (...quote...)
 * Character2: (...quote...)

 * Character1: (...quote...)
 * Character2: (...quote...)
 * Character1: (...quote...)
 * Character3: (...quote...)

Taglines

 * (Tag line of the movie)

 * (Tag line of the movie2)

About

 * (...quote...)
 * Author1, source.

 * (...quote...)
 * Author2, source.

Cast

 * Actor1 — abc
 * Actor2 — Character2
 * Actor3 — Character3

title: Wikiquote:Templates/Films


text:
Wikiquote:Templates/Literary works

Name of Book or Play (year published or created) by Author with short description.
 * Quote1.
 * p. xxx or Chapter xx, sentence xx or Act xx, Scene xx
 * Notes on context, paraphrasing, etc

 * Quote2.
 * pp. xxx–xxy or Chapter xx, sentence xx or Act xx, Scene xx
 * Paraphrased: paraphrasing (where it is not clear)
 * Notes: context, etc

 * Non-English quote.
 * English translation
 * Source (optionally with information on Chapter xx, sentence xx or Act xx, Scene xx)
 * Notes on context, paraphrasing, etc

title: Wikiquote:Templates/Literary works


text:
Wikiquote:Templates/Proverbs

 * Proverb.
 * Transliteration: (if in non-roman script)
 * English equivalent: or English translation:
 * Source citation
 * Alternatives: or Variants:
 * Alternative1
 * Alternative2
 * Notes (context, clarifications where needed, etc.)

title: Wikiquote:Templates/Proverbs


text:
Wikiquote:Templates/Themes

Theme is (a short description of the theme).

Quotes

 * Quote 1.
 * Author A, "Article title," Publication Title (date)

 * Quote 2.
 * Author B, Title (year), page or chapter within source.

 * Foreign language quote.
 * English translation.
 * Author, Title (date of original publication), as translated by Translator (date of translation publication)

title: Wikiquote:Templates/Themes


text:
Wikiquote talk:Templates/TV shows

Moved relevant discussion here. ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 15:20, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Comments

 * Feel free to edit the draft. Leave comments here. ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 09:04, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
 * First comment by me: This reflects the rough consensus as evidenced by a large number of pages. However, it is not necessarily optimal. Biggest thing I would change is using (quote break) for the hr, rather than making the visual decision explicit in the page. It's possible to transition gently from one to the other. ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 09:07, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Each season can be dated with their premier? Like "Season 1 (19xx)". How do you think? --Aphaia 10:24, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * It is not a bad idea...but I tried to mostly standardize common practice, rather than invent new standards in the template above. I don't know of any show that does that. With American TV shows (the vast majority of pages), seasons are predictable in when they start, so the number can be calculated, which is possibly why the practice is rare. ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 10:30, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Two reasons I'd prefer to avoid adding year numbers for seasons. First, I don't like needless long section headings, as it squeezes out Edit Summary space, and some of these ep titles can be long enough as it is. Second, American TV no longer follows predictable seasons. It used to be that one could expect a season to start in September and end in May or thereabouts, but both broadcast and cable networks are so erratic in their scheduling practices anymore that a season can start just about anytime (like January for "mid-season replacements" or even June for some shows). Furthermore, many shows have irregular numbers of episodes (6, 12, 13, and anything between 20 and 26), and these shows are frequently interrupted by sweeps, holidays, and other junk that makes it necessary to do some real research just to verify the actual telecast dates. This seems more appropriate for Wikipedia than Wikiquote. — Jeff Q (talk) 12:35, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I made four changes to the template:
 * Changed the hyphen in the year span to an en-dash, per Wikipedia date practice, and compressed the year-span text to suggest the lack of spaces around the years, per common practice. (It's much easier to get folks to conform to this using this template.)
 * Changed "manual TOC" references to "custom TOC". As I understand it, a manual TOC is when you include the text " " to force a TOC; a custom one is when you reject the default TOC using "  " and make your own.
 * Changed episode-number punctuation to brackets, because some ep titles include parentheses. (I've never seen any that include brackets.)
 * Added IMDb template line.
 * — Jeff Q (talk) 12:33, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Two personal biases I'd like to recommend that aren't in the current template but are in all the articles I monitor closely:
 * Context lines ("explanatory notes") should be in complete sentences whenever possible, and should be properly punctuated. IMDb, which many people lift (rather inaccurate) quotes from, tends to turn context lines into ungrammatical, unpunctuated text. I vociferously object to anything that encourages people to follow poor English practices without a compelling reason.
 * Character attributions fully capitalized (e.g., "Minor Character", "Balloon Man", etc.). This follows role-title capitalization in screenplays and credits without being as obtrusive as the all-uppercase attributions of screenplay style, and also fights the tendency of people to write everything in lowercase, as if they can't be bothered to use the shift key.
 * — Jeff Q (talk) 12:48, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Added both to the template. ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 17:15, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Nobody has commented since my last change. Is the template OK? I would really like to move it into production soon, because inputbox will need it. Thanks ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 12:56, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I like it. I was wondering if there was such a template when I started working on some TV shows. I was a frequent user of the film template when I started there. I think it's important to maintain consistency on WQ's pages. This looks like a good template. UDScott 13:14, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Inputbox with this template might be helpful. --Aphaia 14:03, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Sorry for the delay in responding. Per my first concern in Help talk:Starting a new page, I've just created standalone template subpages for everything but TV shows and added links to them on the Templates page. I believe they should replace the current templates, since we need standalone templates for Inputbox and really don't want two versions to be separately edited. Before this draft template can be moved into place, it should be split into two parts: one for the standalone template (to be moved to Templates/TV shows), and a separate Talk page containing these comments (to be moved to Wikiquote talk:Templates/TV shows). (Not only is this best for Inputbox use, it follows the wiki practice of keeping talk material off article pages, where it doesn't belong.) Also, a "TV shows" section should be added to Templates, although I recommend not including the actual template, but just a link to the standalone template and some usage notes, since I suspect we're going to go this way soon anyhow (to avoid unsynchronized template copies). ~ Jeff Q (talk) 15:10, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

 * We still need a prototype Help:Starting a new page, for which MosheZadka has sketched a description, but which has not been created yet. I take responsibility for this delay, as I'd hoped to copy over WP's version and edit it to suit our general needs (before MZ's new additions). I'll try to tackle that later today. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 15:10, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Dialog separation
I believe I've come up with a simple solution to the ongoing controversy of delimiting dialog segments in film and television show articles. I invite everyone who has found this a frequent irritation to participate in the discussion at Wikiquote talk:Templates. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 23:12, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I believe you mean Wikiquote talk:Templates (maybe it's changed names since you linked to it). Note also the older, scant discussion (but voluminous examples) at Talk:Television shows/Dialog formatting. - dcljr 07:27, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Linking
Why are we supposed to link each character's first quote in each and every episode? Surely this goes against having only one link to each item per an article. Nikke10292 12:07, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I'd say people can just use their own judgment as to whether this is overkill. Some pages are quite extensive (not to say ridiculously so...) and it's nice to have links in each episode. Shorter pages probably don't need this. - dcljr 07:22, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

 * It is overkill for short articles, but many TV episode quote articles turn into the longest articles that Wikiquote maintains, making a single link per article extremely impractical. There is precedent even on Wikipedia for multiple links for long articles, typically with one new link per substantial section. We had a choice between linking every instance of each character, one per episode, one per season, or one per article. We officially went with the last because of the rapid increase of long articles. However, one can probably use judgment to reduce the amount of linking for shorter articles. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 02:41, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

My changes
I've just expanded and rewrote some parts of the template, including more liberal use of HTML comments (with an explanation of same as the first line). The other changes I think should be self-explanatory if you just look at the diff. - dcljr 11:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Eliminating episode numbers
I think our current policy of mandating episode numbers in the episode headings is unnecessary for many articles, and causes problems in some situations. The main reason for having them in the first place is to keep the sections sorted in story order, which is important for shows that don't have a heading for each episode, but is redundant for those with complete listings (e.g., Buffy, MST3K, Veronica Mars, Gilmore Girls). The problems are: I propose that we maintain episode numbers in the titles only for those TV-show articles that have a partial list of episodes, unless and until they are completed. We can expect concerned editors to use appropriate sources (cited in the "References" section, I hope!) to maintain this order, just as we would expect WP editors to be able to present chronological information on a WP subject based on its references. If we feel compelled to, we can even create a topic on the article talk page (or in its "format" page, if we ever get around to formalizing that process) that maintains a complete list of numbered episode titles, so that other editors can add a missing ep in its appropriate place without having to truck over to the official website or TV.com. What do folks think about this? ~ Jeff Q (talk) 02:56, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The episode numbers are just not very elegant.
 * They also crowd out space in the edit summary for section edits, which can be a serious disadvantage to long-titled eps.
 * Links from Wikipedia of the form  , used to provide direct links from an episode's WP article to its WQ quote section, don't work if the ep number is included. (See the various WP Buffy ep articles for how nicely this works without ep numbers.)
 * Some WQ internal links (like edit history section links) also don't work.

 * I agree, redundant tasks like numbering episodes are useless as long as the episodes have different names. I'm new here but think we should just follow the What Wikiquote is not article recommandations. Wikiquote is not an encyclopedia. --Goa103 02:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Unknown vs. unidentified episode
I've been bold and changed the "Unknown episode" heading that we've used for over a year to "Unidentified episode", which is a more accurate statement. After all, there are certainly people who know which episode any particular quote is from; it's just that these people haven't yet edited the article to move the quote into that episode (or to remove it as an invalid quote). I would expect the articles with "Unknown episode" to be gradually changed as people get around to it, just as we're doing with the switch from "Attributed" to "Unsourced" (which is effectively the non-TV equivalent of "Unidentified episode"). If anyone has a problem with this, please speak up here. Thanks. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 03:34, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Season?
American television shows have seasons. British ones do not. They have series. Fys. “Ta fys aym”. 22:45, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Good point. I've changed Red Dwarf's "seasons" to "series". We should probably have a usage note about this. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 20:41, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Using inputbox
I'm trying to understand: How exactly would I use inputbox on this?

Specifically, I'm looking to enter quotes for Xiaolin_Showdown, and I don't understand what / where / how to use inputbox. --Keybounce 01:52, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

 * If you're referring to the TV-show inputbox at Help:Starting a new page, that is for creating articles, not editing existing ones like Xiaolin Showdown. However, if you enter the name of the existing article in the Television box, it will correctly start an edit on that article, so you could use it for general editing. Usually, though, it's better to go to the article directly (through a link or the Search box in the left margin) and edit the section you wish to change. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 02:52, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

What does [n.m] mean ?
In the template we can read « Episode Name [n.m] ». I'm not sure but I think the square brackets mean « optional info » and « n.m » probably stands for « number ». Am I right ? Where can I learn more about the template syntax ? Let's take an example to see if I correctly understood the syntax. Name a section for the first episode (Pilot) of a TV show named « Wikiquote TV ». « Pilot [1] » ? --Goa103 02:32, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm afraid this really isn't adequately explained. The problem is that this page is used as boilerplate for new articles created using input boxes (see Help:Starting a new page), and we've found that explanatory notes on this page tend to get inappropriately left in the article when novice editors create articles from this pre-formatted example.

 * The "[n.m]" designation is not a wiki syntax. It's shorthand for "season n, episode m". Thus, your example would be "Pilot [1.01]". We adopted this convention because it was in use by a number of TV-show episode lists, including IMDb (with a slight difference in format). However, my quick scan of common ep-guide sites suggest this format has fallen out of favor over time.

 * Other formats I've seen include 101, 1-01 (or 1-1), and 1x01. The problem with the first is that it is potentially indistinguishable from production codes, which may not match the episode numbers (based on airing or other canonical orders). The brackets were used, rather than parentheses, because the latter occasionally show up in titles, while the former never have (that I've seen). This unfortunately can be confusing and sometimes problematic because of brackets' use in wiki syntax. Ultimately, it's a compromise between clarity, brevity, and utility. (The utility comes from needing an explicit sorting method for TV show articles that do not include every episode as a heading.) ~ Jeff Q (talk) 07:03, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Character link syntax
The syntax is Character but what should we do if the character doesn't have its own Wikipedia article ? Should we link to the actor article instead and name the link to the character name ? For example I'm writing a Wikiquote article for the Dexter TV show and Dexter, the main character, is played by Michael C. Hall. What would be the syntax to reference the character ? Dexter ? --Goa103 02:50, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

 * We use character links because it is the character that is quoted, not the actor. If there is no Wikipedia article on the character, there should be no link. To make the connection between character and actor, we include a "Cast" section at the end of articles. This doesn't adequately address all circumstances (e.g., should we include recurring characters in "Cast"; what about one-time guest stars?), but it allows the focus to remain on the fictional work quoted, not the actor playing the role. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 07:09, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Should we link to the actor if the character has no wikipedia page? --User:aerodynamicdeskset

What Wikiquote is not & redundant contents
Reading the What Wikiquote is not article I understood that Wikiquote is not an encyclopedia but that adding short introductions to the articles is encouraged. However I think some contents from the template is redundant with Wikipedia and could be removed to improve maintenance of the articles. The brief explanation is necessary, I have no doubt about it. We discuss episode numbering in the Eliminating episode numbers comment. What about the Cast section ? Even if a comment advices us to only list the main cast, I think maintaining both the Wikiquote and Wikipedia articles should be avoided. Why ? Because new characters are often added or removed each season. It happened many times in Smallville for example. It's not a big deal but is the Cast section really useful ? The Wikipedia article is only at a one-click to the user after all. Moreover the Cast section is not consistant as the cast can change between seasons. So one Cast section and multiple Season sections doesn't make sense. In general, I don't like updating lists in multiple articles. Using templates is one solution, linking or just removing the info are others. I think removing the Cast section could improve the project integrity. --Goa103 03:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I would also remove the link to the official website. --Goa103 03:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Goa103 raises some good points. The "Cast" section was a compromise between those who wanted actor links and those who wanted character or no links in the quotes. Having a "Cast" section provides Wikiquotians with some direct data on series regulars. As always happens with any human endeavor, since this compromise was worked out, cracks have appeared in this basic policy. Shows like ER and soap operas go through so many cast changes that it's a pain trying to maintain increasingly long "Cast" sections. More and more shows are adding recurring characters, giving a understandable motivation to adding them to the "Cast" list. One-time characters of note (e.g., Brooke Shields' appearance in Friends, to name an instance I just saw on DVD) have no reasonable means to be linked without confusion between character and actor links. One can argue that we might not want these links at all if they are so much trouble.

 * A little redundancy between the projects is not unreasonable, as it can improve the value of the Wikiquote article (as long as it's kept to essentials and is only a tiny fraction of non-stub articles). But these situations definitely complicate matters. I have no answers or recommendations for now, because changing Wikiquote policy is like turning a cargo ship — we have a very hard time getting anything resembling a community consensus on any issue because so few editors make more than a handful of edits on a regular basis. But I invite discussion on this issue. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 07:45, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Are IMDb quotes available for a TV-Series entry ?
There's a IMDb template to reference a TV-Series entry but I'm not sure quotes are available for a TV show there. Why would they be ? You can quote an episode but how could you possibly quote a TV show ? I see one special case, the credits but most of the time there's only a music and credits with a voice over are different from one episode to an other. The TV-Series entry is a good example, its "memorable quotes" section is disabled and the linked page is empty. So I've decided not to add the external link, a user visiting it wouldn't understand (or appreciate) that it's empty. However quotes are available for Six Feet Under so I suppose some users might find these uncontextual quotes useful. I guess I just like to know from what episode a quote is from. At TV.com only episodes have a "Trivia & Quotes" section for example. It makes reading quotes a living nightmare as you have to check episodes one by one, hopefully we don't have this problem as quotes are all listed and classified in an all-in-one article... « And this story shall also be told. » (Conan the Barbarian). Gosh, I can't believe this quote from the Wizard is missing. --Goa103 03:36, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't understand the relevance of the Conan quote, but I'll try to address the rest of your post. IMDb is in the middle of a major conversion of its TV-show data and presentation. As recently as a year or so ago, it did not present detailed information about episodes except through very specific links in the show's main article. (Two or so years ago, it couldn't even display episode information at all.) Now it has converted much of its presentation of TV-show data in all pages to per-episode information. Apparently, it has recently begun sifting through its monolithic TV-show quote pages to divide the quotes into episodes. Unless they've done some massive hiring to go with this initiative, I'd expect this conversion to take years. (Even though they allow anyone to suggest additions, deletions, or modifications of quotes and other data, each suggestion goes through an approval process vetted by humans to some extent, so it is far slower than wiki updating.)

 * We will obviously have to consider how to revise our links in light of this activity. We don't want to add an IMDb "episode quotes" link to every episode listed in an article. IMDb is but one source for quotes, and it isn't especially accurate, so I would recommend against making the connection too prominent. (Besides, we already have enough problems with editors simply copying and pasting IMDb quote pages, which is a copyright violation of IMDb's presentation that is easily detectable because of their formatting and frequent errors.) I suspect we will ultimately have to revisit the issue of what is appropriate in the "External links" section of Wikiquote TV-show articles. For now, we might not want to add IMDb links for shows like Dexter that no longer use the main quote page. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 07:27, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Formatting issue- episode headings for empty sections in TV show articles
Here's a problem I've encountered when editing Queer as Folk (US TV series),a page for a tv show that has numbered episodes instead of titled episodes and only a few episode sections have content yet.

Some quoted episodes had titles in a previous edit, but when I wanted to add more quotes and researched titles for episodes, I found that the titles weren't official episode titles, but rather titles given by TWOP. Both Showtime's official QAF site and IMDB list episodes by number, without any titles. So I removed the unofficial titles and changed the episode titles to numbered episodes I have of episodes. I haven't gotten around to adding many quotes to the article yet, but I found that when I left out headings for unquoted episodes, the TOC becomes ambiguous and opens up the possibility for quotes being inadvertently added to the wrong episode sections. For example, currently some season 1 episodes are quoted, but other episodes aren't quoted yet. When I remove the headings for unquoted episodes, wiki still automatically numbers headings in the TOC, and that results in a TOC for season 1 that looks something like this:

 * 1 Season 1
 * 1.1 "Pilot" [Episode 101]
 * 1.2 [Episode 102]
 * 1.3 [Episode 105]
 * 1.4 [Episode 106]:1.5 [Episode 108]
 * 1.6 [Episode 112]
 * 1.7 [Episode 114]
 * 1.8 [Episode 118]
 * 1.9 [Episode 122]

Granted, people should make sure they are adding a quote to the correct episode section. But I think people will tend to pay more attention to the numbers that appear first in each subheading rather than the number of the actual episode, and will inadvertently do something like click on "1.3" and place Episode 103 quotes in the Episode 105 section. This will result in misquoted episodes and editing frustration for anyone trying to verify and correct these errors. Scrolling through a lot of headings for quoteless numbered episodes is a bit annoying, but if I have to choose between the lesser of two annoyances, scrolling is the one I prefer.

Is there a better solution to this issue? d0minique 20:44, 16 December 2006 (UTC)d0minique

 * Also- Tivo can also be an inaccurate sourse for episode titles. Instead of using the official titles, episode numbers, for this show's episode titles, it used its own titles which summarize the episode.

 * Original airdates as titles might be a little more descriptive, but I'm not sure they would be especially helpful, particularly for shows that aren't currently in production and are now in syndication and/or on DVD.

 * Aside from making a fundamental formatting change to how wiki handles TOC or making a separate template for TV shows with numbered episode titles, perhaps using unnumbered lists, I haven't seen a way to get around the auto-numbering, either. Maybe I'm pessimistic, but I don't think making a new template would work very well- either new editors might be confused on which template to use or people will just ignore it and continue to use the standard TV show template. It would be nice if there was some sort of heading markup that could be used to turn off numbering in the TOC for cases like this, with heading remaining numbered in the TOC by default unless this additional markup was used. Maybe someone's already addressed this issue in a wiki markup talk page somewhere. At any rate, for now, although my solution isn't the nicest one to look at, since it involves scrolling through content-less space, it does at least promote accuracy and ease in editing. While I'd rather be able to fully satisfy all the goals of an article looking nice, being accurate, and easily edited, if I can't do that, I think accuracy is worth a little scrolling and cosmetic sacrifice. (crossposted from Jeffq's and my talk pages since it's relevant here) d0minique 21:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Italics versus quotation marks for episode titles
I am curious: why are episode titles in italics, rather than in quotation marks, as specified by, for example, Wikipedia? —DocWatson42 (talk) 08:34, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Jeff Q: Pardon me—you are still active here. Do you have an opinion or explanation? —DocWatson42 (talk) 03:15, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

 * No reason other than aesthetics. ~ DanielTom (talk) 23:53, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

title: Wikiquote talk:Templates/TV shows


text:
Help:Starting a new page

Naming an article
When choosing a title for a Wikiquote article, there are two aspects to consider: the actual title text, and how to capitalize it.

Actual text
Wikiquote articles fall into several groups: people, creative works, places, and themes. (There are other supporting groups, like categories, lists, etc., but they all follow the practices for theme articles). Each group has its own conventions. In general, though, Wikiquote usually follows Wikipedia's naming practices, so checking there first for an encyclopedia article on your quote subject will usually provide the correct title.

People names follow different practices, depending on their origin:

 * For most Western names, use "Firstname Lastname" (i.e., "Givenname Familyname") form (e.g., Dean Koontz). Do not include middle names unless the person is primarily known by the expanded name (e.g., Louisa May Alcott).
 * For most Eastern names, use the form in which the name is typically written (e.g., Ali ibn Abi Talib). Use the Latin-character transliterations for names originally written in non-Latin characters.
 * For royal names, use the form "Name RomanNumeral of Nation" (e.g., William I of England).

Creative works should follow their "official" name whenever possible.

 * For literary works, this is usually on the publication page just inside the cover.
 * For movies, Wikiquote typically uses the primary title presented by the Internet Movie Database (IMDb).

Place names are rare as subjects of Wikiquote articles. In general, they should follow Wikipedia conventions.

Themes and all other non-proper articles are too general to have any formal practices, but some loose ones may be considered:

 * Try to make the article title general enough to encourage a reasonable quote collection (even if you only have a single quote to start). Example: don't create an article for quotes from a single speech, but place it into an article for the person giving the speech.
 * Try to use concise article titles. Example: "Quantum physics" is better than "Quantum mechanics, electrodynamics, and field theory".

For theme articles, it is especially important to first check for existing articles that might reasonably contain the quotes you wish to add. If a topic builds up enough quotes to merit its own article, it can always be "spun off" later.

How to capitalize
Wikiquote article titles follow Wikipedia's use of sentence case; that is, capitalizing the first word and all proper nouns, but not any other words. (Capitalizing here means making the first letter of a word uppercase, all others lowercase.) This applies mainly to themes and categories (as well as section headings in articles), which are not proper nouns. People and place names and the titles of artistic works (books, films, etc.) are considered proper nouns, so they follow the general English practice of capitalizing all words except articles, prepositions, and conjunctions. Some illustrative examples:

 * Monument inscriptions (sentence case for a theme)
 * Films in the United States (sentence case for category; internal proper noun capitalized)
 * Stranger in a Strange Land (proper-noun capitalization for title)
 * Charles de Gaulle (proper-noun capitalization for person name)
 * South American Community of Nations (proper-noun capitalization for place name)

A special note about creative works: Many works display titles in all-uppercase, some in all-lowercase, and some in many varieties of case. This is occasionally done for artistic effect, but usually it has more to do with the publisher's style practices. Wikiquote ignores these highly variable publishing practices and uses standard word capitalization (first letter uppercase, all others lowercase), except in rare circumstances.

When in doubt
If you're not sure how to name or capitalize an article title, you can ask on the Village pump, ask an administrator, or just go ahead and create the article using your best judgement. It is relatively easy to fix title problems after the fact.

How to start a new article
There are four basic ways of starting a new page: Each of these methods will open an edit window with the title you requested. The first one, a new feature in Wikiquote, is quite useful for both beginners and old-timers.
 * 1) Using an "input box" to automatically include a formatted article template.
 * 2) Clicking on a "red link", which represents an article that does not yet exist.
 * 3) Using the Search box to get a link to edit a new article.
 * 4) Changing a Wikiquote URL to include parameters to create a new article. (Not recommended for wiki beginners.)

Using input box
The following text entry fields allow you to type the title of an article and jump immediately to an edit page. As an additional advantage, the page will be pre-filled with an appropriate template, which might save your work and will help you to comply with standard Wikiquote look and feel.

Choose the template that most suits your needs. Be sure to replace all the generated sample text with specific text for your article, and delete any optional text that you don't use.

Following red links
New pages can be created by following a link to a nonexistent page (also called a "red link" because of how it looks in the default "skin", or page style). If there is already a red link, you can just follow it. If there is no red link, it is possible to create such an entry. For example, List of people by name is a useful place to add a link for a new person article. You can also create such a link from Sandbox, as well as from your user page. A more advanced technique is to create it on any page, but not "Save" the page, but rather use the "Show preview" feature to jump to the red link. (This last method is not recommended for beginners because of the likelihood of accidental saves.)

If Wikipedia has an encyclopedia article for which you want to create a matching quote article on Wikiquote, you can add a template or a Name link in the Wikipedia article to link to a non-existing page on wikiquote. Following that link will allow you to create the article. (Note that this kind of interwiki link is not red, but it will still jump to an edit page for the Wikiquote article.)

Using the Search box
Since it's a good idea to check to see if an article exists before you create it, you can enter the title you are looking for in the Search box (in the left margin, using the default skin) and click on "Go". If the article does not exist, the response will include the text:
 * "No page with this exact title exists…".

Clicking on the phrase "this exact title" will open an edit page for that title. NOTE: Be sure you review the naming conventions above before searching, because there may be an article with a slightly different name or spelling already in Wikiquote.

Editing URLs
It is possible to edit the URL in the "Address" box in most browsers. This technique is considered advanced, as some changes often need to be made, such as changing spaces to underscores ("_") and adding "&action=edit" to the end of the URL. As such, this technique is not recommended except for experienced wiki users.

title: Help:Starting a new page


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Wikiquote talk:Template examples

I want to redirect this page to Templates/People. Anyone objects? ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 16:32, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree that this no longer serves any useful purpose. ~ Ningauble 17:20, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

title: Wikiquote talk:Template examples


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Wikiquote talk:Templates/People

HTML link
I am not sure about the reason for including a link in the specific book/ play section. What would we link to? Rmhermen 17:43, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I didn't quite understand that myself. I thought it might be an either/or; i.e., you can provide a WQ link or an external link (presumably not both, as the former's article, if it exists, should contain the latter). But that's just speculation. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 22:12, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Attributed vs. Unsourced
Over at Wikiquote talk:Templates/Themes, Jeffq mentioned the possibility of changing the "Attributed" header (and section) to "Unsourced". His concern seems to be confusion between uses of the word attributed; the WQ usage is roughly equivalent to "unsourced", or quotes that don't have a strong source. Another (and I believe more common usage, in context) is quotes which are only sourced through a second party claiming the persons said it. Jeff mentioned the possibility of changing "Attributed" to "Unsourced", and agree that it would be a better fit, as it's a more general word (which included both "attributed" (in the common sense) quotes as well as ones that simply don't have sources). Therefore, I propose that this template be changed to use "Unsourced" instead of "Attributed" as the section title for quotes without primary sources. —LrdChaos 16:14, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

 * And, not incidentally, change a couple of thousand existing articles to match. It's my bright idea, so if we do this, I volunteer for the scut work. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 17:19, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Actually, I just recalled that JackyR had used "Unsourced" in a discussion on WQ:VP 2 months ago, so I think I got the idea from there. But I'll still do the work. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 23:52, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Since there seemed to be some agreement that this is a good idea, what are the next steps to enact this? Does it need to be agreed to by a larger body? If it is to be adopted, I'd like to see the template updated to reflect this. What needs to happen next to get this to happen? ~ UDScott 12:45, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I've mostly been using "Unsourced" when I clean up pages, and since there wasn't any opposition to the plan (now that I remembered it after seeing your post), I've been been bold and changed the header from "Attributed" to "Unsourced" on the template. —LrdChaos 13:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC) [PS: I goofed on the edit summary, saying "Sourced" instead of "Unsourced". Don't pay much attention to that. —LrdChaos 13:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)]

Inline citations
Wouldn't it just be better to use inline citations as is done on Wikipedia instead of the idiosyncratic system used here? I know this is probably the resuilt of some discussion here but I feel the format on Lawrence Taylor looks infinitely better than any other person article and it was tagged for cleanup. I no doubt will receive disagreement here but putting sources inline in the text kills the flow of the article. Probably why it was nuked over at Wikipedia, at least as regards FA's and GA's. Quadzilla99 22:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

 * You make a good point, Quadzilla99. For the current status, I see several reasons why we use source lines instead of ref/references footnoting (aka Cite/Cite.php) that would have to be considered.

 * Obvious uniqueness. As a Wikimedia project, and for legal reasons (the kind that got French Wikiquote into trouble), Wikiquote treats sourcing as a serious issue, and is moving to improve this in its articles. This makes Wikiquote virtually unique among quote websites, as they almost never give anything more than the quote and the quotee. This difference is not as obvious when the sources are all moved to footnotes.
 * Ease of reading. Although source lines do indeed break the flow of quotes, they also provide evidence of accuracy right along with each quote. Moving these lines to footnotes makes it harder for readers to notice whether a quote is solidly, weakly, or not really sourced. They must bounce back and forth between the page sections. Even though this is much easier to do with ref links than with a paper page, it's still a bit jarring.
 * Ease of editing. This is less of a problem for editors, since the ref/references system actually requires that the footnote text immediately follow the quote text. However, an important principle in wiki editing is that new editors be able to pick up editing techniques by observing existing pages. This is easier to do with simple source lines than with footnotes. Anything that decreases the chance of editors adding a reasonable source makes our effort to improving sourcing that much more difficult.
 * Inertia. The most compelling current obstacle is simple inertia. Most Wikiquote editors make only a few edits per month. As of last December, we have never had more than 12 people at a time doing more than 100 edits per month. This makes any major change very difficult to implement.
 * This doesn't mean we won't ultimately change. In fact, discussions on improving our various practices should regularly take place. As Thomas Jefferson is attributed as saying, "A little revolution now and then is a good thing." But making them happen will probably require considerable discussion. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 01:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Obvious uniqueness. I don't see how this would be a problem, the article I worked on was meticulously sourced. A simple explanation could show that the article is well sourced.
 * Ease of reading. Most of these articles are so short that going to the bottom of the page and coming back up takes minimal time.
 * Ease of editing. I'm not sure why this would be more of a problem here than on Wikipedia. I don't think Wikiquote has any more or less need to have strict citation format standards.
 * Inertia. Exceptional point, I can see how that would be the case.
 * I'm not going to convert the article myself, but I wouldn't fight if someone else did. I also wouldn't complain, like I said I think the format I used was attractive and straightforward. Quadzilla99 03:08, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Don't get me wrong, Quadzilla99 — I believe your suggestion needs to be considered for the future, for much the same reasons that WP has adopted it. Some articles are already using this format, although many of them (all the ones I've done with ref/references) still offer a source line for each quote with an abbreviated reference, so that the details are in the footnotes but the Harvard-like basic source is still obvious.

 * The first three arguments might be better summed up as a practical matter of getting readers and editors to understand in their bones that Wikiquote demands sources for quotes. Most people (including quote book authors, even respected ones) feel that "quote and quotee" are all you need. For Wikiquote to overcome this expectation and get people to provide proper sources, which they almost never do despite our strenuous attempts to get them to, we must, for now at least, practically SCREAM "sources, sources, sources". Pushing these sources to the bottom of the article will undermine this already inadequate effort.

 * Wikipedia has its own severe sourcing issues, but they're not quite as legally urgent because most legitimate WP material is user-written, whereas all primary Wikiquote material is by nature an exact copy of someone else's words. Also, prose suffers more from long citations inserted into the text than quotes do with such sources inserted between clearly delineated segments.

 * All in all, I think we're probably a few years away from having the luxury of footnoting our sources. There are some ideas floating around that might help reduce the "interference" of sources lines without burying them at the bottom. For examples, French Wikiquote is using Cascading Style Sheets (CSS) to present its (now-mandatory) source lines in shading that emphasizes the quotes and shrinks but leaves visible the source info. (See Dune for an example.) I suspect that as we revisit old formatting guidelines in the coming year or so, we will have an opportunity to consider mechanisms like this. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 03:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

title: Wikiquote talk:Templates/People


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Wikiquote talk:Templates/Literary works

Death to quote marks!
I just gave this template a test run with one of my favourite books. Mostly it went well, but can we lose the quote marks around "Quote1", "Quote2"? The book had enough nested quoting without me adding another layer, and I saw it serving no purpose anyway. ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 17:48, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree completely. I think we should have a new vote on this subject, as the community is significantly larger than it was when this was last decided in favor of quote marks. ~ Jeff Q (talk) 22:02, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Vote
Vote discussion and results moved to Quotation marks.

Source: and Translation:
Now that we've disposed of those nassssty quotation marks, there's another change in this template I'd like to see. The text "Source:" is or should be redundant. Not only should the citation always immediately follow the quotation, but it should be obvious that the text in that position is a citation since the form of a bibliographic reference is so stylized. Thus, "Source:" is redundant.

The template doesn't really address (and maybe shouldn't address) the distinction between quotations of a foreign-language source, translated by a Wikiquote editor, and quotations of a work published in translation, and quotations of an English-language work which quotes a translated foreign-language source. The third template presented is appropriate for the first case, but not for the other two. In the second case, a "people" or "book" article will often call out a canonical translation, which can be cited once and then referenced multiple times. E.g., the article on Plato might—but doesn't currently and should—cite a specific translation as follows:

 * Quotations from the Republic are taken from the Desmond Lee translation published by Penguin Books (1987 edition).

The third case seems more complicated but is actually much easier. First, we assume that the English-language author has provided sufficient reference information to correctly identify the original source; if not then it belongs under "Attributed" anyway. Then it's simply a matter of stitching the two citations together, in nearly the same way as one would for a double-quotation that doesn't involve translation:

 * "Foo bar baz quux."
 * "Corge Grault", Garply (Mumblefrotz, 1942), trans. John Doe, Dada of Tata Toto Titi (Foobar Press, 1969)

Editors should not feel obliged in either of these two cases to search out and/or attempt to transcribe the original-language text. For some subjects and source languages, though, having the original text may be helpful, and including it should not be discouraged. My preference would be to have the English-language text first, and then source language after (or better still, referenced from the source-language Wikiquote). However, in cases where there are multiple translations with significant differences in interpretation, it is customary to put the source language first. I really don't have a strong feeling on this.

(In most of the cases I have dealt with, the original text is not provided by the quoting author, which makes for quote a hoop for editors to jump through if we were to require it. So just leave it optional.)

One can obviously imagine even more baroque variations involving quotations of third-party translations of anonymous works, etc., but I suspect that once we get beyond three layers, the attribution is so tenuous that the quotation should just be labeled as "attributed"; this should be understood as an invitation for Wikiquotians with subject-matter knowledge to find a citation closer to the original source.

 * 121a0012 03:35, August 27, 2005 (UTC)

 * I suggest quotations translated by a wikiquote editor to have a source of the original, the quote in the original and the translation in a marked "Translation:" sub-bullet. A sourced translation should just contain the English quotation and the source. I am against an all-reaching "translations taken from", since different editors will have different translations.
 * Examples:

 * צנח לו זלזל על גדר וינום
 * Translitaration: Tzanakh lo zalzal 'al gader vayanom
 * Translation: A leaf fell on a fence and slept.
 * Collected works of Byalik, Published by blah blah blah
 * This shows translation by a wikiquote editor

 * A leaf fell on a fence and slept.
 * The Mega-Translation of Byalik, Published by blooh blooh blooh
 * This shows translation in source

 * This allows wikiquote editors to add *both* originals (and to translate), as well as adding as many translations as are deemed necessary to cover the possible range of translations. ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 05:44, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

title: Wikiquote talk:Templates/Literary works


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User talk:212.139.229.103

~ MosheZadka (Talk) 17:50, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:212.139.229.103


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User talk:Emerlee

Thanks for removing vandalism from one of my favourite pages! ~ MosheZadka (Talk) 17:59, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
 * No problem! And thanks for the welcome.

title: User talk:Emerlee