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Wikiversity:Vision/2009

Wikiversity Vision 2009 is a temporary project to coordinate and discuss development of Wikiversity during 2008. It sets out goals which we can set ourselves to reach by the end of the year.

Please sign your contributions to this page with --~. Thank you.

Pedagogy

 * Cormaggio has suggested a number of related initiatives (e.g. Developing Wikiversity through action research) in the area of sharpening Wikiversity's concept of learning. --McCormack 07:36, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Workspaces for this include: Wikiversity learning model (and related reading group and discussion group), and Building successful learning communities on Wikiversity.

PLEs

 * Develop examples of Userpages as Personal learning environment (PLEs) -- Jtneill - Talk 11:27, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * See also: Making Wikiversity a personal learning space (and my PLE :-)) Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 12:39, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * --McCormack 07:20, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Educational levels

 * Creating more educational content for younger students, and developing a structure and community centered around said content, see Pre-tertiary portal for ongoing discussion. --Luai lashire 15:42, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm creating a portal system for this right now :-) --McCormack 15:43, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Excellent. :)  --Luai lashire 14:21, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅. The new portal system which corrects the focus to treat all educational levels equally is now in place. --McCormack 05:50, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Identifying quality content

 * A great problem with "Wikiversity 2007" was that quality content was so hard to find that it appeared to be non-existent. As one bureaucrat phrased it in early 2008, the actual practice of content creation on Wikiversity was "to create a page and forget about it" - or more to the point, "create a stub or less-than-half-developed page and forget about it". During Spring 2008, there have been ongoing efforts to identify quality content and make this more accessible to Wikiversity participants, so that a feeling emerges that Wikiversity is doing something worthwhile. Usually, valuable content has been "rediscovered" during the process of other reorganisational projects. At the current point of time, several dozen projects accounting for perhaps 25% of Wikiversity's total content have been tracked down and identified as valuable content in this way. It should greatly increase the community's confidence in content creation. --McCormack 07:19, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The above comment seems to ignore the reality of how wikis function and grow. Many stubs are requests for further content development. The attitude that stubby and developing pages are not something worthwhile is toxic and not the wiki way. Wikiversity welcomes all good faith contributions....well, some of us do. --JWSchmidt 04:38, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Colloquium/archives/May 2008, Erkan Yilmaz uses the Chat (try) 20:33, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I find McCormack's comment helpful—I'm thinking about how to focus on productive content in the projects I'm involved with. The Jade Knight 09:40, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

 * I think the more that learning resources interlink the more unified Wikiversity will seem. That is one of the great strengths of Wikipeida is that its articles not only talk about that article's subject, but easily directs its readers to related material in the article. Something similar to  link surfing. So if a learning resource is kind of based on another skill, hopefully you can link to another learning resource on Wikiversity that teaches that skill. --Devourer09 02:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

 * I think there is still confusion between wikiversity and wikibooks, particularly when textbooks are developed on wikibooks - there should be an easy way to identify them and link them to wikiversity content. I am pretty sure there are people developing textbooks on Wikibooks who don't know much about Wikiversity, and there are people who develop textbook-like stuff here.--Piotrus 17:52, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Totally agree. The Jade Knight (d'viser) 21:30, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Featured

 * There has been tremendous progress with identifying quality content using Featured. This in turn has been reflected on the main page. Raising the profile of certain projects in this way has considerably motivated some of the content producers currently working on these projects. --McCormack 07:26, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Random

 * The random link(s) in the left-hand sidebar (Mediawiki:sidebar) were a point of discussion and trial-and-error reform by a number of participants in Spring 2008. The original problems were that a purely random pages threw up mainly subpages and stubs, which created a bad impression of Wikiversity content. Ideally what was needed was a random link which only chose from the homepages of well-developed projects. However the Mediawiki software did not provide a good way to do this. Eventually the suggestions list at Featured was used to produce a list of content (not just featured content, but drawing on slughtly-lower-quality or not-yet-featured content as well) from which a random page was chosen on every click. This works better than the equivalent kludge at Wikibooks, which as a browser-specific scripting problem. --McCormack 07:26, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

More learning projects and ones with feedback
I think we need more learning projects. I saw a psudo-namespace "Course:" run by a user that consisted of keeping track of how well users did on various resources and quizes. I think it's a good idea and we need to have something that allows someone to keep tabs on the grades, categorize them, and weigh them to use a mathematical device to create a grade.--Ipatrol 21:01, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Matching Efforts to Resource Demand
Finding courses without content is nobody's favorite pasttime, yet there seems to be a great deal of this to do, even once the quality content has been identified. So, what then is the best way to guide developer's hands towards those resources which are most in need of development? Obviously random pages are not going to arouse feelings of grandeur and raise morale. Instead, I'd like to see a synthesis made here of the statistics available http://wikistics.falsikon.de/2008/wikiversity/en/ and the the proposed "Activity_bars" (maybe via bot?) to better guide our collaborators to where they're needed. Those pages with the most hits will get looked at, and if the right people look, they will be developed. - Gustable 05:07, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Not a bad idea, but most users help with what they're interested in—this is where Departments need to step in and be helpful, herding people to where the most promising content is. We definitely need a way to handle these demoralizing empty pages in a way everyone can appreciate, however.  The Jade Knight (d'viser) 23:18, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Main page

 * See main page learning project. --McCormack 07:42, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅. New main page brought into service in mid-April. --McCormack 05:51, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Help:Contents

 * ✅. User:Terra (and others) developed and activated a new help:contents page in March and April 2008. --McCormack 06:00, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Faculty structure

 * Wikiversity seems to have originally attempted to use a university metaphor to structure itself, and then attempted to run away from or disguise this metaphor, without ever fully completing the erasure, and without replacing the metaphor with anything else. I propose we embrace a new multi-metaphor structural concept, including both a pre-tertiary (K-12) framework and a university framework. As regards the university framework, the list of faculties (which partially morphed into a characterless list of portals) is sadly lop-sided, incoherent and incomplete. I have started a series of proposals for reform of the faculty structure on Category talk:University faculties. --McCormack 07:42, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree, the name "-versity" sets unfortunately the association to mainly university. But WV is actually so much more. We could also link the pretertiary portal etc. in the navigation bar so it gets faster seen ? Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 08:41, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There is currently an active thread about namespaces on the Colloquium: see Colloquium:Topic subpages & research page location. --McCormack 05:56, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * above link archived, Erkan Yilmaz uses the Chat (try) 08:51, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
 * See Portal reform for latest developments. --McCormack 20:57, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * The university metaphor may be quite useful at the tertiary level. For example, I envision future versions of Wikiversity as being host to more actual research (on the order of the Bloom Clock Project).  My own userpage is a "laboratory" run and staffed by my avatars.  Although the avatars are fictional characters, the research the laboratory performs is real.  Perhaps Wikiversity could make an effort to reach out to academics and encourage them to use the space for their research projects and courses?  AFriedman 03:46, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Browse

 * Remi started this initiative a year ago, and it perhaps needs revisiting: new concept for "browse" page. --McCormack 09:21, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I've updated the new concept for "browse" page. Effectively the principle for this page is that it should be the most comprehensive guide to content on WV which we can produce. For friendly access to content, we should prefer the major portals. But we also need something powerfully comprehensive, and which will also impress researchers and press reps who want to know the full range of what's really on WV as quickly as possible. --McCormack 14:55, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅. The discussion of this moved to the colloquium, and a new browse page was introduced at the beginning of April. General feedback since then appears to have been very positive. --McCormack 05:52, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

after some years we wish wikiversity to grow up and have a greet scientific specialized content to begining in whats called continuous education courses with credited certificates also we wish wiki to be of scientific reality and action in scientific literatures all over the world also i wish from people work on wiki to make a prize for people have best scintific researches this my make wiki an unique with this researches over any sites and making it helpfull and important for researchers "giving reality for its science between scintific communication" --Ibrahim kh. rashad 05:40, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Free culture studies

 * I'm not yet familiar with the faculty structure, so this may already exist in some form or another, but I would like to propose a faculty/department (whatever) of free culture studies. This would include courses such as Composing free and open online educational resources, reading groups such as Free Culture (book), and research groups (such as User:Cormaggio's phd work), plus I'm sure much other, perhaps scattered learning projects. Such a faculty would, I'd suggest be in keeping with the overall WV mission, could become a honeypot for people being innovative in this area, and eventually a flagship program. Let me know initial thoughts and if promising how you would suggest it proceed. I'm really only familiar with bottom-up design around here. -- Jtneill - Talk 03:41, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There is a lot of material spread around WV on this topic. I'd suggest (if it does not yet exist as a department/topic) that material should be drawn together at the department/topic level, and then categorised under (e.g.) a faculty of Wikimedia Studies, the faculty of Educational Science (where it already mostly is anyway) and the Non-formal Education Portal. With the new portal system I am developing, subsuming something into a particular portal would require no more than correctly categorising it. You should take a good look at Browse/Concept. --McCormack 05:26, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅ Your suggestions now make sense. Scary. So, I've created Free culture and we can go from there. -- Jtneill - Talk 03:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Navigation paths

 * ✅ Navigating by resource level: introducing portals and categories for: pre-school education, primary education, secondary education, tertiary education, non-formal education. --McCormack 09:22, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Navigating by resource type: discussions and debates, reading groups, lesson plans, lecture notes, audio/video lectures, textbooks, articles, quizzes and games, courses, research projects, personal learning environments, (...) --McCormack 09:26, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * See Template:Gateways. --McCormack 18:53, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * More ideas: identifying and dynmically listing resources on the basis of number of edits, recent activity, size (both bytes and number of subpages) - as a way of getting to the active, worthwhile content buried somewhere in them there hills. This is technically possible, but may require some coding. --McCormack 06:10, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Navigating by user type: portals for (1) teachers/educators, (2) learners/students, (3) researchers, (4) maintenance/admin/development. --McCormack 11:11, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

WYSIWYG

 * Obtain a clear indication of strategic intent from WM Foundation with regard to WYSIWYG editing. i.e., is a waste of time to dream of such an innovation (and therefore best to help users to learn MW syntax markup), or is a functionality worth lobbying for and investing energy in testing? -- Jtneill - Talk 11:53, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think both are needed. For an average user, only basic understanding of wiki markup is needed to perform the edits they want.  Some people, however, may struggle even with that, especially younger users (like first graders or younger), who we are trying to attract.  So a WYSIWYG set up would definitely be useful for basic things.  Then we have users who would like to do more complicated things with wiki markup, but don't know how.  Currently there is no way to learn more complicated wiki manipulation (like making templates, etc) unless you get a more experienced editor to teach you.  So something like a resource to teach complex wiki markup would be useful; but if we could simplify the more complicated things enough to bring them within the grasp of the average user, we'd see a lot more getting done on WV.  (sorry if that doesn't make sense, I'm having trouble translating thoughts to language today) --Luai lashire 16:02, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I would be surprised that there is not a wysiwyg mediawiki extension. Perhaps if there is a quality one that would be useful, it could be something that could be enabled through preferences. --Remi 00:27, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
 * See: strategy:Proposal:WYSIWYG default editor --fasten 13:31, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Usability priorities

 * Do you think learning manual wiki-markup is the largest obstacle to classes using Wikiversity? I'd estimate that creating an account and logging in is, in terms of time and probability of error, just as great an obstacle as wiki-markup, and once students actually find a nice table of symbols (tutorials!), they get going with editing quite fast. Advanced editing mostly involves things like templates and parsers, which no WYSIWYG editor could ever cope with anyway. What we should probably do is map out a list of things that classes need to go through, and estimate where the bottlenecks are. Quick and dirty list follows. --McCormack 12:06, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Creating an account and signing in (quite difficult)
 * Note: This step can be skipped because anonymous editing is possible. -- Jtneill - Talk 12:28, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is difficult at all- anyone with even a modicum of internet experience has most likely created an account somewhere before, and as far as account creation goes, wikiversity's sign-up is very quick and simple. The one thing I can think of that could cause a problem is locating the place to click in order to get an account, which could be remedied by placing a link to it in the navigation bar at left.  --Luai lashire 15:56, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Introduction to basic wiki markup (moderate difficulty; easier if a good reference source is available)
 * This took me quite a while to get the hang of- I would say it's quite difficult unless you have a really good quality reference source available, which Wikiversity currently does not. It has a few resources that come close, but not close enough, and I had to look at several of them AND go to Wikipedia to look for more before I could even begin to figure out how to edit.  --Luai lashire 15:56, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Dealing with edit conflicts (occurs more frequently if a class are collaboratively authoring)
 * Content policy issues, such as basic civility and not being tempted by amateur vandalism once the new environment is discovered.
 * Using media (really difficult)
 * I would rate this at most moderately difficult; students I work with who are fairly novice seem quite comfortable with (and enjoy) embedding hosted videos in their blogs, etc. -- Jtneill - Talk 12:28, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, perhaps the really difficult bit is when it involves legally using media - i.e. attributing authorship and getting permissions right. --McCormack 12:37, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree, people don't know much about copyright. :-( Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 12:42, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * But I think they learn pretty fast by making a mistake and having an experienced user remove inappropriate content, and explain on their talk page. -- Jtneill - Talk 12:52, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You are remarkably optimistic about the supply of experienced users at WV to do things like categorisation and media permissions tagging ;-) But perhaps we shall have them one day. --McCormack 13:12, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm thinking its not so much optimism as realism around the observation that categorising and fixing naive or vandalising stuff by others seems to pretty much be only  performed by a small proportion of experienced users. (Perhaps if users weren't so focused on working out syntax every time they edited, they might get around more often to categorising?) -- Jtneill - Talk 13:31, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Linking pages into the grand scheme of things (using categories, portals and the like; difficult)
 * I would rate this very difficult; it's taken me a long while to get to grips with namespaces, categories, etc. esp. on a new MW site. I think this is ultimately a task for more experienced users. -- Jtneill - Talk 12:28, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I would rate this as easy.  While I admit it's often hard to figure out precisely which categories to put a page in, categories were relatively easy for me to adapt to, and after a bit of portal-hunting I often found places I thought were right to link to.  If we introduce new users to categories as the Wikiversity version of tags, I think most people understand their use pretty quickly.  Namespaces, however, are confusing- but that I think is because the namespace system is pretty messed up, as we are discussing above.  Perhaps if we 1) fix the namespaces, and 2) create a page introducing new users to categorization and organizational structure on WV, we can address any issues people currently have with such things?  --Luai lashire 15:56, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Colour coding
 * Colour code the different sections of the code. This will make rummaging through the code faster. I understand that having this function will probably take up much processing power, so perhaps it can be introduced as an optional feature for logged in users? --Jestermeister 07:25, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Homework templates

 * There needs to be a way for students to upload their assignments easier. This could be templates or even a bot.  Using the current upload process along with manual wiki-markup for displaying the homework is now too time consuming. ~ Robert Elliott 15:54, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Welcome template

 * Update the welcome template. --McCormack 08:43, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Navigation/Sidebar

 * Discussion has been quite active at MediaWiki talk:Sidebar in April 2008. --McCormack 05:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * MediaWiki:Sidebar is the page which defines the appearance of the left hand sidebar. Its content perhaps leaves something to be desired: there are two links each for randomness, helpfulness and communitarianism. Previous discussion (from September 2006) is at MediaWiki talk:Sidebar. We've created loads of useful content since it was created, so it's time we revised it to reflect today's Wikiversity. What do people think would be more helpful in terms of content? --McCormack 12:09, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * A "create an account" link in the left hand sidebar would be useful to new users who may be confused about how to get involved in Wikiversity. --Luai lashire 22:50, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes - I agree strongly. Perhaps call it "join", because "create an account" is too wide (?). --McCormack 05:58, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Favourites

 * Is there any MW functionality which would allow users to bookmark favourite pages? -- Jtneill - Talk 07:15, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The watchlist. Many experienced users use their user space to create lists. --McCormack 07:31, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Had a quick search; doesn't sound like there's any extension for this, but did find this extension request for flexible watchlists. -- Jtneill - Talk 07:44, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't quite understand why the "watch" tab doesn't fulfill this function? --McCormack 08:22, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess the issues I have are:
 * The order is always different, based on what has been most recently edited. Some favourite pages may not have been edited for a long time, and not even be listed even though they are favourites.
 * Maybe I 'watch' too much stuff, e.g., on WP I don't use my watchlist much any more, but I do look through out of interest sometimes to see anything leaps out.
 * On confluence, favourites are separate to watches
 * Maybe I should be using Special:Watchlist/edit more, since that seems to be a more stable list of 'favourites'. Are there other ways to get this list? -- Jtneill - Talk 10:09, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You might also want to visit http://test.wikipedia.org where new features are taken for a drive. For example, see testwiki:Wikipedia:Gadget/Watchlist which shows that it is possible to customize the watchlist using a gadget.  If the feature is of use it could be installed here.  This example is a bit simple, but could be of use to some people.  More generally you might find it interesting to visit there and see what people are working on for new code.  --mikeu talk 23:13, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Tagging resources by completion status

 * ✅. 1st step: create some completion status project boxes and a help page. --McCormack 09:30, 4 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Where can these be found? --Luai lashire 22:16, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * See Help:project boxes. --McCormack 07:13, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * 2nd step: mark all 7000+ pages on WV with completion status. --McCormack 09:30, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Simplify Namespaces

 * There was a huge discussion of namespace reform here which, due to its size, has been transferred to its own page at Namespace reform. Please feel welcome to contribute to the discussion. The results of the discussion, when consensus has been achieved, will be announced below. --McCormack 08:53, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Update: there was a lot of discussion of this in May 2008 by many participants. Discussion fizzled out in June 2008. There appears to be no consensus on anything - or can someone enlighten me? --McCormack 07:12, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Technology goals

 * A number of users, including especially jtneill, are pressing for a bolder and more innovative approach to issues such as media embedding. --McCormack 07:44, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * How about therefore making a prio list for 2008 of the Technical needs ? Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 09:04, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's see if we can't get these into a SoC application, if they are high priority. Historybuff 06:29, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Strategies

 * Make direct comparison with functions enabled by extensions implemented by WikiEducator, with strategic decisions about whether Wikiversity wishes to pursue any of these which are not currently implemented. -- -- Jtneill - Talk 11:22, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi. Don't forget to sign your comments ;-) Actually, I'd suggest that a better initial comparison is with the other Wikimedia projects, because this also gives a better guide as to what the Wikimedia devs are prepared to allow. If they've done something elsewhere, they can't refuse us! --McCormack 10:39, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Those WM project comparisons are fine - but from a consumer (educator's) POV, I am making direct comparison between the functionality of WV and WE in determining where I will host materials. At the moment, WE offers greater functionality in some areas, although overall I prefer WV. -- Jtneill - Talk 11:22, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Have you seen http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Gadgets ? --McCormack 11:57, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I think the idea of Wikiversity enrichment via extensions is nice. But we usually dont know, what we wont or better say we usually dont know what we can get.--Juan 17:43, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Strategically, closer collaboration with WikiEducator could benefit both initiatives. I am constantly torn between which platform to use and always have to make a decision - later wishing I had some of the features available on the other one. Collaboration could occur at multiple levels - shared templates, gadgets, etc., federated search, shared discussions even at the strategic level considering the shared implied vision of libre knowledge and education for all. Ktucker 23:21, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

WV vs. other WMF wiki projects

 * Is there a neat table somewhere of what extensions are installed for each of the main WMF wiki projects?
 * Otherwise, here's links to their extensions:
 * Wikiversity
 * Wikibooks
 * Wikipedia
 * Wikiquotes
 * Wikispecies

Wikiversity vs. WikiEducator

 * James, what is that makes you prefer Wikiversity more ? Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 12:43, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * In order of priority, at the moment, the reasons for me are:
 * The broader WM Foundation family of projects - e.g., esp. sister projects with Wiki Commons, Wikipedia, and WikiBooks
 * More responsive and larger set of 'custodial'-type experts.
 * Cleaner, simpler interface.
 * The main downside at the moment for me in using WV compared to WE is that WE are a little bit more advanced towards providing multimedia embedding. (BTW - It kind of amuses me that we're talking about MediaWiki software here!). -- Jtneill - Talk 13:19, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

MW interwiki default linking to WV?
I was surprised to notice that interwiki linking to Wikiversity is NOT a MediaWiki default!? See mw:Help:Interwiki_linking. How can we get this changed? -- Jtneill - Talk 01:36, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure what this means. I do believe we're on the Interwiki map, and I also think that all WMF projects use the same map. This may have changed in the last while, but that was the situation when I last tried to use interwiki linking. Historybuff 06:31, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

 * What I mean is that AFAIK the default installation of MediaWiki does not provide built-in shortcut links to Wikiversity, whereas it does for say wikipedia:. So, we should lobby to have wikiversity: in-built as a default shortcut in the MW software. -- Jtneill - Talk 06:05, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

RSS functionality
One of the current weaknesses of Wikiversity is that the feedback loop of participant activity (e.g., their blog reflections) can't easily be completed within WV. Implementation of an RSS parsing extension would allow custom feeds to be created and shown. WikiEducator have implemented this. I'm guessing this might be an unfortunately scary concept for WM to buy into (e.g., potential for undesirable and spam material to be shown, and related legal issues, etc.) But it needs to be negotiated, otherwise it is going to be difficult for Wikiversity to become a dynamic learning environment. Perhaps we can start gently with WMF by suggesting that only feeds from within WV would be allowed. This would at least allow the use of PLEs on user pages, with an aggregated feed shown on a course page. Thoughts? -- Jtneill - Talk 12:31, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

 * I think extensions can be added by community consensus, and if there are things that would help with this, then I can't see why we can't have them. The RSS feed thing did work at one point, but it might be suffering from Bitrot of some sort. We could devise a custom PLE structure as an extension, depending on the functionality we wanted to achieve. Historybuff 06:34, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

 * This functionality is now available for testing on the sandbox server (link to be added). -- Jtneill - Talk 06:07, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Multimedia extensions
(feel free to adjust, add, move, and add rationale/info/argument)
 * 1) Slideshare embedding - be able to embed a (flash?) slideshare presentation
 * 2) Youtube/Google Video embedding - be able to embed a flash video
 * 3) Google Calendar embedding
 * 4) Google Map embedding
 * There were added comments on the Sandbox Server to the extension requests, see here, Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 12:45, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * James, just a question: you know that videos can be used here or ? see e.g. commons:Category:Wikiproject videos - depending on copyright videos can be converted to that format and used also here, Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 13:40, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Ahh, ok, interesting. I have started looking at this. I like the focus on .ogg. Do you know of any embedded .ogg files being used on wikiversity? Is there a category? -- Jtneill - Talk 12:59, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't know if there is a category, but feel free to create Category:Video resources and add all .OGG video files to it. --McCormack 13:01, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * e.g. Stanford Open Source Lab. More on: Category:Video media - btw: on commons, see commons:Category:Video, commons:Category:Wikiproject videos - you can use them at any wikimedia project. So, if you would think of uploading ogg videos, please place them there. Erkan Yilmaz uses the Wikiversity:Chat (try) 13:05, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Huh, nice ideas, but I should say, that people will have a problem to create these multimedia. Like me and all of us. JWS made some embedade ogg videos for en.wv. But he is having Apple. We pore people having Windows as an OS, havent e.g. found a way how to make a screencasting video in ogg Theora format:(.--Juan 17:55, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

 * 1) FreeMind embedding, for organizing ideas, knowledge adquisition and even links to wiki or non wiki pages. Could that be used/useful? --Esenabre 14:23, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

MPEG 3 movie files

 * Why does Wikiversity not allow MPG4 files? This would be much easier for some people than OGG VIDEO. Robert Elliott 17:51, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

 * I think the MPG4 file format might be covered by patents, or somehow considered non-free (perhaps it's using MP3 audio, which is covered by patents?). I don't know the filesizes for MPG4 vs other files, but it might be possible to accommodate these on the Sandbox server, if the admins are willing to host there? Historybuff 06:38, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikification tools
Create something like Wikification (plus some user-friendlier titles), with information about various ways to wikify content in different formats, e.g., -- Jtneill - Talk
 * 1) Send2Wiki
 * 2) html import

Academia
Create a file storage system for lectures in pdf format. Also creating libraries/academia/or a group for these files similar to School, where people can read the previous lectures and course material. --Tushant 16:41, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Supporting Open Document Content Types
Wikiversity should support the uploading of Open Document file types. The use of these file types should be encouraged. -- -- wmciver UTC (or GMT/Zulu)-time used: Sunday, November 2, 2008 at 20:56:11
 * OOo 2.0 file can't be upload for this moment due to suspicious code that can be in the file.Crochet.david 21:40, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Have you tried OOo 3.0? It is the current revision.  The Jade Knight (d'viser) 11:19, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No, but only the developer can open new upload format. In bugzilla, we can read that : The main issue is that OASIS files can contains malicious content. Letting these be uploaded without validation would be undesirable, and as of yet (AFAIK) there is no OASIS validation interface for MediaWiki.Crochet.david 20:05, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Fliers

 * Develop a suite of open format fliers and posters about Wikiversity. -- Jtneill - Talk 09:26, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Suggested action: start Publicity and link it into other pages. --McCormack 10:11, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Statistics

 * Update and make user-friendly and informative: Statistics. -- Jtneill - Talk 23:54, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Create a workshop curriculum for a f2f 1 to 2 hour hands-on introduction to Wikiversity. Much of the needed material probably exists, but may not yet be packaged as a specific learning resource? -- Jtneill - Talk 07:54, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Guided tours

 * Guided tour/Lesson needs a page added about talk pages. -- Jtneill - Talk 11:12, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If I remember correctly, you tried doing this, and now the tour seems to be broken. :( --McCormack 07:16, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry, only just noticed this; you may be right, I'm not sure. I just had a look and if it was broken, it now seems fixed. -- Jtneill - Talk 13:29, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Update: Help:Guides is now getting along well, and will have more tours added. --McCormack 07:09, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Sister projects interview

 * Many people have been working on User:OhanaUnited/Sister Projects Interview. The results of this interview should probably be moved to a subpage of Vision 2009, because the interview is perhaps the best current community-produced statement about what Wikiversity is and where it is going. --McCormack 06:05, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
 * ✅. Many thanks to the many people who worked on this. The interview has now been published and this project is over. --McCormack 07:09, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikiversity outreach

 * I like the name Wikiversity outreach and want to change the meaning of this project a little. It could become a project with the aim to find new users for Wikiversity and to organize activities that can attract people. We could make films (for YouTube for instance), cartoons, games and material of an academic level. We could organize fairs and discussions on several topics with the aim to get people interested in a wide range of topics.
 * Secondly, i like to put this project prominently at the front page of Wikiversity, so there is a bigger chance that people will join it.
 * The main aim of these two measures is to get a more active institution, which is able to reach out and won't stay passive.--Daanschr 08:20, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Awards

 * Increase retention of participants and recognition of activity, especially by newcomers. See Participants for a start. It could become "normal" to recognize newcomers when they achieve "very active" status for the first time, and when they reach 1000 edits, for example. Superficial, but better than complete silence. --McCormack 07:30, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Annual awards - Create peer- (and participant-) review annual awards e.g., for most innovative new learning resources within major categories. 2008 could provide the inaugural awards. Get this promoted so its up there with the edublog awards. Among other things, this could also help build prestige for teachers needing to justify time spent on contributing to Wikiversity to their employers. -- Jtneill - Talk 13:13, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree. Being cautious, I'd suggest doing this within the existing barnstar system (but perhaps with some new and better barnstar templates). One can both overdo and underdo recognition, and at the moment we're definitely on the "under" side! --McCormack 06:07, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * What about a different image for an annual award maybe a "diploma-in-hand" statuette? And maybe awards for projects and schools, not just users? Go raibh mile maith agaibh 22:47, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Staffing/Functionaries

 * ✅. Ensure that we have a full complement of present and active bureaucrats. --McCormack 08:59, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Increase the number of educators involved with maintenance, administration and development tasks. --McCormack 08:59, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * How can this be determined positively? The Jade Knight 13:02, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the mission statement says we need an academic review board to think about how research proposals should work. This should have been created over a year ago. --McCormack 05:35, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I had a quick scan / text search of Mission and Wikiversity_project_proposal but couldn't find reference to this? -- Jtneill - Talk 12:43, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually it says "guidelines will be developed during the beta phase of Wikiversity's development on hosting and fostering research based in part on existing resources in Wikiversity and other Wikimedia projects", and the beta phase ended in February 2007 without any such guidelines being developed (or discussed, I think!). It says "guidelines", not a "board". However I suspect that if we did develop guidelines, it would be extremely difficult to pin down rules, so the guidelines would end up creating a board of some kind which assessed research issues on a case-by-case basis, developing a body of precedent from which firmer guidelines could be produced. --McCormack 12:57, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * We did do a discussion of Original Research, and set out the terms of reference and what was and wasn't allowable under our Original Research policy. That said, I'm against formalizing things too early in the lifecycle of the community. While we may need a board to help arbitrate these things in the future, the WV community has to grow a great deal before we get to that need. Historybuff 06:43, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * The approved WMF proposal required that we develop research guidelines during the beta phase. The discussion on research was held at  since this applies to all wikiversity languages.  See betawikiversity:Wikiversity:Research/En and betawikiversity:Wikiversity:Research guidelines/En.  There are also a few pages here such as Original research and Review board.  --mikeu talk 13:30, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Those links take you back to the mythical Wikimedia Special Projects Committee, which was supposed to oversee the process, but which in fact became inactive about 3 months after Wikiversity started. In other words, this is a torch which needs picking up or leaving where it lies. --McCormack 14:06, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the further info, Mike. I think we need to link to carefully, otherwise this last known pronouncement/discussion might get forgotten. --McCormack 14:36, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, I think we can create a peer review board, but untill there will is nothing to be peer reviewed hard to perfome its unctionality.--Juan 18:04, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Community Portal

 * Luai lashire is adopting this one. Helpers welcome. --McCormack 07:07, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Get the Community Portal up and running again; currently it's almost completely stagnant, and it's not set up in such a way as to be easily editable by users with less knowledge of wiki markup. Frankly, it's daunting, and it's old, and doesn't do a good job of representing the community or alerting users to new developments.  --Luai lashire 16:08, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I had a look at this and agree, but the trick will be persuading a Wikiversitarian to "adopt" these pages and maintain them as a long term project. I already have enough under my wing - but perhaps someone else could volunteer? --McCormack 06:07, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, that would certainly help- especially for an initial clean-up phase- but it's my hope that we can get the Community Portal to the point where just about anyone who knows any wiki markup at all would be able to contribute a little. That way we could use it to make course-related announcements (like the ones up right now about the Bloom Clock or the French course), delete alerts that are too old, etc, and just continuously tweak things until they're right.  Currently it's far too confusing for a new user to edit it at all.  Cleaning it up should be our first priority I guess, but after that it needs to be made more usable.  I don't know how to do that, myself.  Perhaps if we start a Community Portal Learning Project modeled on the main page learning project, we could attract more interest and get some of this done.  --Luai lashire 14:30, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The main page learning project attracted minimal interest - a few readers, but no real participants. I still ended up doing everything myself (but I can just about manage that). While I support your ideas for a Community Portal Learning Project, we must be realistic - great wiki efforts at the moment will mostly be individual efforts - only the combination of our efforts across different parts of the site will really be communal. If you are willing to adopt the Community Portal, you can count on myself and others to provide you with the knowledge, advice and support, but at the beginning, it's probably going to be an individual effort. Start by creating Community Portal/2.0, copy in the previous code, and then experiment at your leisure and as time allows! --McCormack 05:33, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll do my best, but I have very little free time until school ends, so work will be minimal and haphazard until then. --Luai lashire 22:44, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Community Portal Layout 0.5 is suppose to be an updated version of the previous one, it does need a little tweeking - like the alignment with the text, though I need assistance with that, tried to fix the alignment problem on my own but I'm struggling with fixing the problem - I hope that this version will in use once finished. DarkMage  17:49, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikibooks' attempts to improve its own Community Portal might provide some inspiration: June 2007, October 2007, and May 2008. --darklama 22:09, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Participants lists

 * ✅. New concept for Participants oriented towards our needs. --McCormack 05:39, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Participants lists: it's been suggested before, but I'll add the suggestion to this page as well. The participants lists on portals, departments and most learning projects are a failed wikiversity idea and all these lists should be moved to the talk pages of their respective pages in the course of time. Currently I can't find where we previously discussed this, but the general problem is that all over Wikiversity, we have these "sign yourself up" lists where people signed themselves up years ago and rarely did anything, or did for a while and then moved on. The course participants lists from previous years are about the most useless piece of junk one can have, and they really make new visitors feel that nothing's happening or that the courses are somehow in the possession of much older users. Thoughts, anyone? --McCormack 05:33, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * For my 3rd post I would say my second was to add my name to something that I would wish to lurk on (and sometime add to) and note that the presence of a name that I could follow and relate to was a useful feature .. my previous entry to this was on her off-wiki slideshow. Learning is about people.--Paulmartin42 15:03, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Perhaps these lists could be moved to /Participant subpages. This could then provide a kind of archival record of people who engaged at some point with each learning project. -- Jtneill - Talk 09:59, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That's also a good idea, but don't forget that talk pages also serve as long term repositories. The main difference between talk page and subpage will become apparent if we manage to get subpage navigation activated - then the subpages would become much more visible - which might not be a good thing for these participants lists. The idea is to keep them, but to keep them out of the way. --McCormack 10:35, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I actually just had an idea for these lists in the projects I'm involved in—I was thinking of relabeling the lists to be more like a contact group or whatnot, and then creating an actual project community, with, say, community requirements of one sort or another. I'm thinking along the lines of having meetings to attend, but this could be simply a matter of making sure that those on the list are actively working on the project (by posting on the talk page, if nothing else).  I haven't worked out the details yet (just got the idea tonight), but the general idea is to a) develop community, b) have listing criteria be objective, c) increase productivity.  Thoughts?  The Jade Knight 13:08, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Vision statement

 * Is there one? -- Jtneill - Talk 11:25, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Feel free to write one ;-) --McCormack 11:49, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Would there be something to start with e.g., from the original proposals? -- Jtneill - Talk 13:37, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Found this; needs TLC: Vision. -- Jtneill - Talk 14:25, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I found that too a long time ago, and then forgot about it. I think it was one of those pages which mikeu talks about - the ones where we create 'em and forget 'em. --McCormack 15:42, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It's tidied it up a bit more now - please contribute to Vision. -- Jtneill - Talk 03:04, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Great stuff. Keep it up! --McCormack 05:36, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
 * --McCormack 07:12, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
 * We already have the mission statement. What do you want of a vision statement?  Have you in mind some medium-term (three- to five-year?) goals? Hillgentleman|Talk 22:30, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Please add comment to this effect to Vision. -- Jtneill - Talk 00:35, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
 * So is this finished now? Can we have a status update? --McCormack 07:04, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It is currently a work in progress and structured as organic vision which can evolve, so its arguably 'complete'. But to come up with a definitive vision would probably require some active effort towards generating community consensus. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 07:13, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Policy review
A number of people, and especially mikeu, have supported the idea of a wide ranging policy review and policy completion, particularly as policy has gaping holes in it. See Policy. --McCormack 14:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * One of my main concerns is that it is not clear which policy pages are simply proposed, and which ones were actually adopted as official. If I am confused about this, there is no way that a new editor would have a clue.  We also have to decide about fair use images.  Do we adopt an EDP or do we delete all non-free images?  (as required by wikimedia:Resolution:Licensing policy)  --mikeu talk 22:44, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * My own impression of policy is that it is a garden full of really overgrown jungle weeds. Rather than "tender loving care", it needs "rodent kill" and a couple of heart transplants. I added in a link to the actually voting, which, while it shows what was officially decided, was also a poorly supported and rushed process which did not reach consensus in the majority of cases. The example of a soundly defeated policy (i.e. Ignore All Rules) being subsequently listed/tagged as "proposed" rather than "rejected" should suffice. Policy needs a recipe consisting of a bunch a bureaucrats, a lot of good judgment, and many cups of boldness. Just keep us informed about what you do ;-) --McCormack 05:36, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Religious content policy

 * There has been discussion of this for some weeks now. Opensourcejunkie has agreed to attempt to write a first draft to get us started. --McCormack 14:11, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

 * There is a working draft at Draft policy on religious content, but there have been no major edits since April. The page needs review.  --mikeu talk 13:05, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Blocking
Blocking warrants discussion and possible revision in light of concerns raised particularly during September-October 2008 around appropriate usage and conduct on Wikiversity and the use/practice of blocking in dealing such issues. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 12:01, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
 * There is ongoing, active discussion about several related issues and policy development (e.g., Respect people), although as yet active review of the blocking policy is not underway. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 12:01, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Permissions
Create tools, guides, materials for helping WV users to seek and gain free access to previously restricted copyright teaching materials. In the beginning, this might simply be a WMF-approved proforma WV letter requesting that a copyright holder give permission for free usage of the content (e.g., an image, a presentation, a handout, etc.) as per WMF licensing requirements. -- Jtneill - Talk 01:43, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Image Use & Copyright Policy
I've noticed that Wikiversity doesn't have any Image Use Policy, including a policy of copying materials from Copyrighted websites - this is a major problem and have caused problems on Wikipedia, which I don't want to see happening here on Wikiversity - Could something be set-up so that user's (or) new user's could abide by the Image Use Policy including a policy which won't allow user's to copy copyrighted material which isn't their work, if the owner's of the copyrighted work had granted permission to be place on this site, then by all means - but in my view we need a policy on this. DarkMage 17:56, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ive developed new upload information as well as some new licenseing templates sofar working to get it all put together Eadthem 00:17, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Allowing contributors to protect their content
I decided to use Wikiversity because I did not want my content locked up in our university's Blackboard system. I want to contribute it for other to use. This does not mean that I want others to change it. I remain uncomfortable with the lack of protections for my content. The notion that I have to ask people not to change the content I have developed for my course seems backward. wmciver UTC (or GMT/Zulu)-time used: Sunday, November 2, 2008 at 20:48:28.

 * Is this about being able to rely on the page being as you last left it to show to students? I think the closest that Wikiversity might get is to allow particular revisions of a page to be marked as stable so that teachers, instructors and other people who need a reliable version of content can count on people seeing the stable version of the page if their not registered or didn't change their preferences. Would this address what your trying to achieve?
 * Wikiversity is also about being open to collaboration, working together to improve content for everyone's benefit, and Wikiversity's licensing policy reflects this goal. Wikiversity is unlikely to provide the ability to lock down or restrict who can contribute to what page because this would go against the goal of being open to collaboration by anyone. Right now the most reliable way to ensure that students see a particular version of a page is to link to the particular revision somewhere by including the revision id of the page as part of the URL (for example: http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Wikiversity:Vision/2009&oldid=366275). --dark[[Image:Yin yang.svg|12px]]lama 22:19, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikiversity is not simply a "content hosting platform"; if you place content here, you may want to expect, or even desire, for it to be edited by others. If you simply want to place content to be read by your students, you're free to create your own wiki using the MediaWiki software.  The Jade Knight (d'viser) 11:18, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I do use MediaWiki in my own work and have used it on my own machines at times. This is not an appropriate response, however, to someone who is volunteering to contribute to this project. Organizational policies at my place of work and at the university where I am an adjunct professor present barriers to hosting a public MediaWiki for me. In the spirit of cooperation, I thought I would contribute to this project. I already participate in the Global Text Project and the Appropedia.org. Wikiversity on the surface seemed the best fit. I appreciate the potentials for collaboration, but if I understand Wikiversity's policies, the model is wrong or at best incomplete. If others feel that changes are warranted in a course designer's content, a comment and revision process should be used as in academic journals and conferences. Content developers will be reluctant to contribute here if they can't rely on the stability of their own content. Let author(s) know in a non-disruptive fashion what changes are suggested. What if the author disagrees though? What if they are qualified to disagree? Should we still mandate or allow unilateral changes? The version process above would mitigate some of these flaws, but it is too cumbersome. Those who truly support the idea of Wikiversity should not be responding with technical and policy responses. They should be building an environment that encourages contributions. I have a Ph.D in computer science. I am sure that I can figure out the tedious details of templates and revision links to satisfy the current Wikiversity policies here. But why should it be difficult or tedious? This type of compliance still would not address some of the anti-user-centred approaches to this whole project. What do you want the priorities to be? Content or technically-oriented policies that are not user-friendly? All of you might want to have a look at Donald Norman's books, which I use in my course. wmciver UTC (or GMT/Zulu)-time used: Monday, November 3, 2008 at 12:44:46

 * Well, the Wikimedia wikis host collaborations, using the wiki technology so that anyone can contribute (IOW, "anyone can edit"). You really don't need to use a wiki if you're only interested in posting something up for public viewing and use. We really can't host content that isn't open for others to edit, because the whole idea is to host collaborative creations. --SB_Johnny talk 14:07, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

 * This is a misunderstanding of my concerns. I value and support collaboration in my work. See my course. A number of modes of collaboration are possible. My concern has to do with modes of collaboration that are suitable for content that is being used in a class while it is being developed. My concern is also about developing an inclusive and flexible environment that allows for these different modes. The current approach seems to fail in these respects. I hope that I am wrong. wmciver Monday, November 3, 2008 at 18:18:36 UTC.

 * The ability to mark revisions as stable that I mentioned before, seem to me like it would allow material to be use in classes reliably while still being developed collaboratively. Perhaps you could clarify what modes of collaborations your referring to that you wish to prevent and wish to allow? --dark[[Image:Yin yang.svg|12px]]lama 19:11, 3 November 2008 (UTC)--dark[[Image:Yin yang.svg|12px]]lama 19:11, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Hi wmciver! Wikiversity and other Wikimedia wiki's do indeed have "open content" as a standard. It appears you want collaboration but also to be able to fine tune the security to pages and what users can do. There is a well known hosted wiki solution out there that accomplishes that, and it is PBwiki, see the academic link. If you like MediaWiki, what Wikiversity uses, I suggest to see if your academy will host one, which you can configure to require registration to edit pages instead of like Wikiversity that accepts any IP without registration. Dzonatas 17:33, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

For wmciver’s case. Wikiversity’s concept must be different from Wikipedia’s. In wikipedia most of the articles are written by amateurs who have paraphrased printed sources in traditional disciplines, e.g. the Humanities. When wiki authorities are bored by others’ meaningless editing or vandalism they lock the article and nobody can edit it. In Wikipedia, as the experts are few, the author of the article, who has not really written something original but has actually paraphrased from a printed encyclopedia, is not really interested whether somebody else will edit his paraphrase. Also, if your knowledge about the subject is limited, yes, you really appreciate editing, adding etc by others.

HOWEVER, Wikiversity should not be the same. Two environments miust be created: a free one and a protected environment. An expert in a field, who tries to open his thoughts and his material to others apart from his class at the University, can not tolerate silly editing and can not be checking everyday whether others have moved a sentence from here to there or have added something irrelevant or different to the concept of the specific course.

If wikiversity is looking for high quality material, must create a LOCKED/PROTECTED environment for those who are the experts and want to teach and develop a course in their own way. Parallel development of free/open or other protected/locked courses (forking) of course is welcome and is part of Wikiversity. A real expert in a field of course wants comments and opinions etc but not anybody touching an ORIGINAL material he/she has given great thought on and a lot of time to prepare for his students or even the greater public. Otherwise, NO high quality material will ever exist here, as is the case with a great part of Wikipedia (what is not paraphrased from the experts in print).

Let me add my own experience here. I am an expert on Hegel (German philosopher) which means PhD dis., articles, book chapters etc. I wanted to develop a course for Hegel, about Hegel, and Hegel’s ideas and take it out of the Univ. Blackboard system. I also wanted to bring my students here, so that they can discuss the content etc BUT NOT change the material I wanted to give them. The course was about Hegel NOT a comparison of Hegel with others. During the process, every so often silly intruders made “corrections” to the material although my intention about content stability was stated explicitly on the first course page. After a few weeks editing of others had become so annoying that I spent more time trying to find what others had changed rather than proceed with the material. I used the stability feature but as material changed overnight my students saw the new versions of others who had used the same feature for their content in the same course. I RAN AWAY FROM WIKIVERSITY (yes I know I am shouting).

Allow locked material for Wikiversity and you may be surprised to find out that a lot of young profs are willing to offer their expertise here but they do not like amateurs editing. Of course, you might say, this is not the right place for you. I agree and that is why I have decided to keep my material to my Univ. Blackboard. However, I am still an advocate of open content for others to learn. So long friends! Ariosto 15:50, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Ariosto: Please do not leave. Feel free to create and use page protection templates at Wikiversity. There are valid reasons for protecting some Wikiversity content fro editing so go ahead an make pages that only you can edit. Just realize that other people can make copies of those pages and edit those copies. --JWSchmidt 16:02, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the suggestion. I did check the link. However, editing is again left to the good will of the Wikiversity users with just a window warning. As I have become very skeptical I would be more comfortable with no “edit this page” tab on protected content if I desire so and custodians only ability to edit/remove pages if I do not follow the code of ethics. I do understand though that at present this is a huge step and against the original wiki philosophy. I’ll wait and see. Ariosto 17:39, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Such protection would also prevent you from being able to edit the page as well. I imagine that wouldn't be helpful in the long run since than you would not be able to make corrections and expand upon the content either. --dark[[Image:Yin yang.svg|12px]]lama 19:12, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The most logical thing for content that is not intended to be wiki content is simply to host it elsewhere on a private website. The Jade Knight (d'viser) 12:30, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Alternatively you could host what you wish to have more control over on a private website, and have a project on Wikiversity that makes use of or refers to material on the private website. Another option would be to maintain a stable/static version of content hosted here on a private website, making use only of changes that you like, as you are free to use, copy, modify and redistribute content from Wikiversity under the terms of the GFDL. If you use any media or images other licenses or terms of use might apply though, but they should also allow you to use, copy, modify and redistribute them. A third option would be to link to specific revisions that you like from your user page or somewhere within your userspace. All three options would allow for some form of collaboration to exist while providing some level of reliability without requiring pages be protected from editing. --dark[[Image:Yin yang.svg|12px]]lama 13:23, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

 * I don't think we want custodians in the business of protecting things in this manner. If you have content that's completed and requires no further editing for the purposes of your class, you could perhaps create a pdf copy and upload it. --SB_Johnny talk 13:37, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Ariosto: "against the original wiki philosophy" <-- Wiki is a tool that makes possible collaborative webpage editing. There is nothing that says every Wikiversity webpage must be edited by anyone at any time. Wikiversity is very much a place for experimentation and discovery of new ways to use wiki technology to support learning. I agree that page protection templates are not optimal, but they are a tool that can be used right now while we make plans for a better solution. For example, we could potentially modify the software and have a namespace where the creators of pages can control who is able to edit a page and limit editing of a page to a select group of trusted collaborators. Please do not let all of the naysayers drive you away from Wikiversity. The software that Wikiversity uses was developed for Wikipedia and does not conform to the needs of educators. Wikiversity has several projects (example: Topic:Sandbox Server 0.5) for exploring ways to find software solutions that will empower educators and help them participate efficiently at at Wikiversity. Here at Wikiversity we are not locked into doing things "the Wikipedia way", or even the "Wikibooks way". Please do not be intimidated by anyone who argues with you and against your perfectly reasonable desire put limits on the editing of some Wikiversity pages. This website was created for you, not people whose vision of Wikiversity does not get past some lame and crippled reflection of Wikipedia. --JWSchmidt 15:28, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Indeed. Honestly I doubt you'd have problems with people insisting on editing when the template requests that they don't. Keep in mind that even the custodians are just contributors with tools, not professionals, and any "random browser" passing through might be able to provide feedback or volunteer some copy-editing. We don't have the wiki software set up to create multiple usergroups for varying levels of protection (and probably never will), but I think an "assumption of good faith" (and manners) will not lead to disappointment. --SB_Johnny talk 15:38, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think SB_Johnny is right on the mark, here: the software currently doesn't allow for this kind of selective page protection, and probably won't anytime soon. If you need the content 100% protected, you need to host it elsewhere.  Otherwise, just ask people (using notes or a template) to respect your wishes, and you'll find that the vast majority of individuals will, I think.  The Jade Knight (d'viser) 18:26, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

People seem to be thinking about FlaggedRevs, I oppose as wikiversity is a free learning resource with constructive dialoge between students and teachers. The only thing I could imagine is installing FlaggedRevs and calling the reviewer and edior classes one class called "Professer." This could be granted upon request. Their namespace would go from "User" to "Professer" and they would be granted all the editor and reviewer permissions as well as the protect right. All the courses they wanted soul ownership of would go in a user subpage. Until the software is changed we could create a social construct that they are not to flag or protect pages outside of that space with the penalty for violation being "title stripping" (removing professor status) or blocking.--Ipatrol 03:00, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia
Develop stronger links with, and active use of, materials on Wikipedia; see What shall we do with WP?. -- Jtneill - Talk 11:49, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Offering learning Courses
What i believe is to have such goals which welcomes every one to get in touch with wikievristy as offering various cources and certification and then get hired by wikipedia himself for some specific tasks.-Azamishaque 11:43, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Creating a learning environment
I do not know how viable this is, but I would strongly suggest creating some form of learning environment, where the real-life classroom is mimicked. I believe this would achieve several goals: First, it encourages older users, who are used to more traditional methods of learning, to get involved. I also believe that it establishes more credibility with such users. Second, it adds a more social element, in which there could be participation, attendance, examinations, projects and assignments. Students can interact with each other and informal learning can initiate through interaction with instructors and lecturers. Third, I believe that a real and honest assessment needs to be established. True, there are no certifications granted at the end of the course, but I need to know how much have I learned and how much have I improved. Fourth, perhaps several "students" have not been to a real university, and I think it could be exciting for them to "enroll" in classes, and select several courses and electives to complete a "degree". I believe that we need to foster a true learning environment.

To cite myself as an example. I wanted to "register" for the Spanish courses (my mother tongues are Arabic and English), and I did read the introduction and covered chapter one. Had I had any "classmates" I would have continued the course. I would feel obligated to finish the course. Otherwise, I could simply purchase a book, or an audiobook, or register in real-life classes to learn Spanish and learn properly. What makes Wikiversity so special that I should use it?

This could be Wikiversity's competitive advantage. I am not bossing around or barking orders, or playing mr. know it all, but I am just saying that these things would do help as a person, use Wikiversity more often.Chagfeh 16:16, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think there's some merit in what you have to say. The Spanish course is a good example of a problematic course at Wikiversity—lots of content, but very little user-participation focused content, and, frankly, the Wikibook is more effective at conveying the information it presents.  Other learning projects, while not at all traditional, are still heavily participatory, and are still effective in that regard.  However, more traditional formats, I think, can also be helpful.  The biggest problem with them is that Wikiversity is really having trouble reaching critical mass in certain areas right now—certainly this is true in the School of History, where efforts to establish more traditional "classroom-style" courses have largely failed.  The two projects there which are currently the most successful includes one where participants are helping to write a textbook, and another which is currently designed as a simple focused learning experience (but which is similar to a textbook in certain regards).  The Jade Knight (d'viser) 09:30, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

title: Wikiversity:Vision/2009


text:
BCP/Salix gracilistyla 'Melanostachys'

Salix gracilistyla 'Melanostachys'

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: BCP/Salix gracilistyla 'Melanostachys'


text:
BCP/Salix gracilistyla 'Melanostachys'/Logs

This page contains recent bloom logs for the plant Salix gracilistyla 'Melanostachys' (Black Pussy-willow).

Recent Logs

 * SB Johnny-LM 08:55, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

=====Archived Logs===== (If there are more than 5 signatures under the recent logs heading, move the oldest logs to under this heading (generally leave the 3 most recent).
 * (no archived logs yet)


text:
BCP/Mahonia bealei

Mahonia bealei

title: BCP/Mahonia bealei


text:
BCP/Mahonia bealei/Logs

This page contains recent bloom logs for the plant Mahonia bealei (Grape-holly).

Recent Logs

 * SB Johnny-LM 08:58, 22 March 2008 (UTC) (lower flowers open)
 * SB Johnny-LM 11:37, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
 * SB Johnny-LM 11:06, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
 * SB Johnny-LM 10:06, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
 * SB Johnny-LM 16:21, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

=====Archived Logs===== (If there are more than 5 signatures under the recent logs heading, move the oldest logs to under this heading (generally leave the 3 most recent).
 * (no archived logs yet)

title: BCP/Mahonia bealei/Logs


text:
Thucydides: The Peloponnesian War/Meetings/2008-March-22

This is the chat from our meeting on 22nd March 2008 in #thucydides about Thucydides: The Peloponnesian War.

People joining the chat: Daan, Erkan Yilmaz, pietrodn

10:09 Did you both read the text? 10:09 of course, see http://de.wikiversity.org/wiki/Kurs:Der_Peloponnesische_Krieg/Notizen/Buch_2 10:09 Good 10:09 And you Pietro? 10:09 did you ? :-) 10:09 I did 10:09 Just a moment 10:10 Last week, i suggested to Erkan to think of a theme to discuss, when someone didn't read the text. 10:11 * pietrodn didn't read the text 10:12 ok, we can start anyway 10:12 A theme that i can think of is siege warfare and naval warfare. 10:12 That was much discussed in the text. 10:12 And we can discuss this theme in general. 10:12 Do you agree? 10:12 ok, but wouldn't it need also for newcomers involve more knowledge in the warfare from back then ? 10:12 That is right. 10:13 so let's start 10:13 ok pietrodn ? 10:13 <Daan_>Or we can just discuss the text. 10:13 <Erkan_Yilmaz>let's see what pietrodn tells 10:13 let's start

siege of Plataea
10:14 <Daan_>At the siege of Plataea, the Pelopponesians build a (have to look it up) 10:15 <Daan_>Mound, i think. 10:15 <Erkan_Yilmaz>a dam, rampart 10:15 <Daan_>Yes. 10:15 <Daan_>The Plataeans build a mound. 10:16 <Daan_>So, we have a wall preventing people from entering a city. 10:16 <Daan_>And the Peloponnesians build a dam, so the can walk to the top of the wall and capture a city. 10:16 * Erkan_Yilmaz wonders how big the city walls were back then ? 10:16 <Daan_>The defenders of the city is only 500 men. 10:16 <Erkan_Yilmaz>5-10 meters ? 10:16 <Daan_>It depends on the city. 10:17 <Daan_>The Athenian city walls stretched kilometers. 10:17 <Erkan_Yilmaz>480 men + 110 women 10:17 <Erkan_Yilmaz>ok, I meant the height 10:17 <Daan_>Yes, for some feminist, i mean feminine tasks. 10:18 <Daan_>They could be as long as they wanted. 10:18 <Daan_>If you build high, then you also have to build braod, otherwise the wall collapses. 10:18 <Daan_>broad 10:18 Athens had very long walls... there was walls also near the harbour 10:18 <Daan_>Yes. 10:19 *around the harbour 10:19 <Daan_>I will bring my points for these meeting. 10:19 then Spartans obligated Athens to destroy those walls 10:19 <Daan_>   * Siege of Plataea. 10:19 <Daan_>   * Naval warfare. Two battles won by the Athenians and an assault on Salamis. 10:19 <Daan_>         o We can discuss tactics and engines used for naval and siege warfare. 10:19 <Daan_>   * Northern front: Odrysian Thracians, Macedonia, Chalcidice. 10:19 <Daan_>   * Invasions of Athenians in Chalcidice and of the Peloponnesians in Acarnania fail. 10:20 <Daan_>Yes, at the end of the war. 10:20 <Erkan_Yilmaz>Thucydides tells, the Lacaedaemonians worked 70 days + nights 10:20 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so can be assumed the walls were large then ? 10:21 <Erkan_Yilmaz>they have to bring earth and put in place 10:21 <Daan_>It depends, maybe the Lacedeamonian army wasn't that big. 10:21 <Erkan_Yilmaz>well, they normally went with two thirds of their army 10:21 <Erkan_Yilmaz>e.g. in the first march to Attica 10:21 <Daan_>The Odryssian Thracians had an army of 150,000 men. And the Greeks were afraid that they would conquer all of Greece. 10:21 <Daan_>So, the Peloponnesian army was smaller than that. 10:22 <Daan_>Perhaps the earth was already there.

battering rams
10:23 <Daan_>What i didn't get was the battering rams. 10:23 <Daan_>Will look it up in the text. 10:23 <Erkan_Yilmaz>book II, 76 10:24 <Daan_>While the mound was rising the Peloponnesians brought battering engines up to the wall; one which was moved forward on the mound itself shook a great part of the raised building, to the terror of the Plataeans. They brought up others too at other points of the wall. But the Plataeans dropped nooses over the ends of these engines and drew them up; they also let down huge beams suspended at... ...each end by long iron chains from two poles leaning on the wall and projecting over it. These beams they drew up at right angles to the advancing battering-ram, and whenever at any point it was about to attack them they slackened their hold of the chains and let go the beam, which fell with great force and snapped off the head of the ram. 10:24 <Daan_>Now i see. 10:24 <Daan_>Allthough, what is a noose? 10:25 <Erkan_Yilmaz>loop, sling 10:25 <Erkan_Yilmaz>in German: Schlinge 10:25 <Erkan_Yilmaz>in the text are described three use cases for rambocks 10:25 <Daan_>I wonder how these nooses work, because they are very effective. 10:26 <Daan_>Perhaps the battering rams, weren't heavy enough. 10:26 <Erkan_Yilmaz>lets do a wikipedia search 10:26 <Erkan_Yilmaz>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battering_ram 10:28 <Erkan_Yilmaz>here is a pic: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:0869-Attack-on-the-walls-of-a-besieged-town-q75-500x412.jpg 10:28 <Daan_>I can imagine, that these battering rams can be defeated with nooses. 10:28 <Erkan_Yilmaz>here are more pictures: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Battering_rams 10:29 <Daan_>A problem is that we both no little about this, so i just don't know what to say about this topic.

Odryssian threat to Greece
10:30 <Daan_>We could discuss the Odryssian threat to Greece. 10:30 <Erkan_Yilmaz>ok, let's proceed - in the next cyclye we can identify this as a todo 10:30 <Daan_>Yes. 10:30 <Erkan_Yilmaz>pietrodn ? 10:30 <Daan_>We could read aditional literature. 10:30 I'm not prepared on this part :-( 10:30 <Daan_>That is okay. 10:31 <Erkan_Yilmaz>yeah, how about you ask questions then ? 10:31 <Daan_>The Odryssians had an empire which was of the same size as entire Greece. 10:31 <Daan_>They ruled what is now Bulgaria, Greek thrace, Turkish Thrace and southern Rumenia. 10:31 <Daan_>Romania. 10:32 <Erkan_Yilmaz>pietrodn  we are talking now about: II, 95 - II, 101 10:32 <Daan_>They gathered an army of 150,000 men and invaded Macedonia, which was quickly defeated. 10:32 <Erkan_Yilmaz>hm, it was not defeated or ? 10:32 <Erkan_Yilmaz>they invaded it fast

Scythians, horse archers
10:32 <Daan_>The Thracian army was of a superb quality, they used one of the best working military strategies: 10:32 <Daan_>The horse archer. 10:33 <Daan_>Horse archers with good armour and whom are trained all there life from childhood onwards. 10:33 <Erkan_Yilmaz>something like the Mongolians later on ? 10:33 <Daan_>Yes, exactly. 10:33 <Erkan_Yilmaz>or let's say Indians - so people also get a picture in their head :-) 10:33 <Daan_>Thucydides says that the Scythians are far stronger than the Thracians. 10:34 <Daan_>Yes. 10:34 <Daan_>But, Indians with chain mail. 10:34 <Daan_>The Scythians, if united would defeat every country, even all those in Asia. 10:35 <Erkan_Yilmaz>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian 10:35 <Daan_>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Scythia-Parthia_100_BC.png 10:35 <Erkan_Yilmaz>picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Scythia-Parthia_100_BC.png 10:35 <Erkan_Yilmaz>hehe 10:35 <Daan_>Here you see a picture of the Scythian territories. 10:36 <Daan_>If it was a country now, it would be second only to Russia. 10:36 <Daan_>And they were all fierce warriors on horseback. 10:36 <Erkan_Yilmaz>big country 10:36 <Daan_>But, they were no unity, they were fighting eachother. 10:37 <Daan_>Scythians are founders of the Median Empire, and the founders of Zoroastricism, the first major religion. 10:37 <Erkan_Yilmaz>you could say: they were istead getting degenerated doing competition all the time :-) 10:37 <Erkan_Yilmaz>(was about unity) 10:38 <Daan_>yes. 10:38 That empire was then under the control of Seleucids, right? (in Alessandrian age) 10:38 <Daan_>When? 10:38 <Daan_>In the 5th century? 10:39 <Erkan_Yilmaz>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seleucid 10:39 <Erkan_Yilmaz>"The Seleucid Empire (312 - 60 BC) was a Hellenistic successor state of Alexander the Great's dominion, including central Anatolia, the Levant, Mesopotamia, Persia, Turkmenistan, Pamir and the Indus valley." 10:39 <Erkan_Yilmaz>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Seleucid_Empire_323_-_60_%28BC%29.GIF 10:39 <Daan_>The Persians were subjects of the Medes, and they rebelled and started the Persian Empire. 10:40 <Daan_>But, most of the scythian territories remained independent of Persia. 10:40 <Daan_>Persians and thracians were related to the Scythians. 10:40 <Daan_>They are all three Indo-Europeans. 10:40 <Erkan_Yilmaz>"In 512 BCE, when king Darius the Great of Persia attacked the Scythians, he allegedly penetrated into their land after crossing the Danube. Herodotus relates that the nomad Scythians succeeded in frustrating the designs of the Persian army by letting it march through the entire country without an engagement. According to Herodotus, Darius in this manner came as far as the Volga river." from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian#Classical_Antiquity_.28600_BCE_to_CE_300.29 10:40 <Daan_>And the Greeks and Albanians are realted to the Thracians. 10:41 <Daan_>That is typical horse archers strategy. 10:41 <Daan_>The Thracians and the Scythians were nomads. 10:41 <Daan_>and cattle-breeders. 10:42 <Daan_>They moved there home to fresh grass, for their cattle to eat. 10:42 <Daan_>So, they can always move. 10:42 <Erkan_Yilmaz>to come back to the text: Macedonians also did this with their horse riders, II 100 against the large army of Sitalces 10:42 <Daan_>The Persian army is far too slow. 10:42 <Erkan_Yilmaz>but they could not do much besides small attacks with horse riders against the 150000 10:42 <Daan_>Yes, Macedonia also had horse archers. 10:42 <Erkan_Yilmaz>from whom 50000 were horse riders 10:43 <Daan_>The Thracian army was not prepared to conquer. 10:43 <Daan_>They could have easily conquer, i think, but they didn't 10:43 <Erkan_Yilmaz>as it seems they didn't have much food and also winter conditions 10:43 <Erkan_Yilmaz>and some bribing (always when Perdiccas is involved :-) )

Odryssian Thracian Empire paid money, which was distributed to the chiefs
10:43 <Daan_>Instead of taxes, they gave money to their subjects. 10:44 <Daan_>That is not the way to keep an empire. 10:44 <Erkan_Yilmaz>you mean they had social welfare ? 10:44 <Daan_>People on the outskirts of the Odryssian Thracian Empire paid money, which was distributed to the chiefs. 10:44 <Daan_>No. 10:45 <Daan_>The empire existed in order to have neighbours pay tribute to several cooperating chiefs. 10:45 <Daan_>That was where the power base of king Sitalces rested upon. 10:45 <Daan_>A similar situation existed in afghanistan in the 18th century. 10:46 <Daan_>So, he is very powerfull. But, he can't do much with his power. 10:46 <Erkan_Yilmaz>hmm 10:46 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so you say he has lots of money ? 10:46 <Daan_>The Athenian Empire demands taxes of all subjects, so the Athenian Empire has a stronger structure. 10:46 <Daan_>Yes, and he has to give it to his chiefs. 10:47 <Erkan_Yilmaz>ah and that is because they are more single and not united I assume 10:47 <Daan_>In the Athenian Empire, subjects are forced to pay taxes, and in the Odryssian Thracian Empire, chiefs are forced to accept tribute. 10:48 <Erkan_Yilmaz>forced to accept sounds strange

10:51 <Daan_>Thucydides writes that if chiefs have to acdept tribute, otherwise it is not honourable. 10:51 <Daan_>So, i can imagine, if a chief refuses to get tribute, that he will be an outcast. 10:51 <Daan_>Gaining tribute, and having to go to war in exchange 10:51 <Daan_>Well, they are united to gain tribute, and otherwise the union will end.

10:51 <Daan_>I can imagine that the chiefs of Sitalces are willing to fight for tribute, not fight to fight. 10:52 <Daan_>So, his troops will only go to war for a short period. 10:52 <Daan_>Otherwise Sitalces could lose his power. 10:52 <Erkan_Yilmaz>probably if they are nomad tribes they also have a strong honor system 10:52 <Erkan_Yilmaz>the army was in the field for 30 days when they got back home 10:52 <Daan_>30 days is very short. 10:53 <Erkan_Yilmaz>I remember Spartan army was also maximum 40 days out or ? 10:53 <Erkan_Yilmaz>when they invaded Attica 10:53 <Daan_>Yes, also due to a lack of supplies. 10:54 <Daan_>Sitalces invaded Macedonia, because the Macedonian king supported Sparta instead of athens in Acarnania. 10:54 <Daan_>So, treason was punished severely. 10:54 <Daan_>The Thracians couldn't let that happen. 10:55 <Erkan_Yilmaz>well Sitalces somehow waited also 2 years to attack the Chalcidice what he promised to the Athenians 10:55 <Daan_>They had to show that they were stronger then Macedonia. 10:55 <Daan_>Yes, but there was no honour at stake. 10:55 <Daan_>At that time. 10:55 <Erkan_Yilmaz>but wouldn't the Athenians know anyhow that Perdiccas is unreliable ? 10:55 <Daan_>Of course, he switched sides several times. 10:56 <Erkan_Yilmaz>I mean Perdiccas can't let's say do so much harm in this way 10:56 <Daan_>But, the athenians were not strong enough to deal with Perdiccas. 10:56 <Erkan_Yilmaz>Macedonia is in between Sitalces and Athens friendly Thessaly 10:56 <Daan_>Yes. 10:56 <Erkan_Yilmaz>they could have dealt with them later on also ? 10:56 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so why not first let Sitalces attack the Chalcidice ? 10:57 <Daan_>Who could have dealt with them? 10:57 <Erkan_Yilmaz>Sitalces could have attacked first the Chalcidice 10:57 <Daan_>The athenians have no power over the Thracians. 10:57 <Erkan_Yilmaz>that was more a prob for the Athenians 10:57 <Daan_>Athens can only win the Thracians over by being nice. 10:57 <Erkan_Yilmaz>ok 10:58 <Erkan_Yilmaz>or perhaps he did think while he is in Chalcidice that Perdiccas could get behind him and close him in the Chalcidice ? 10:58 <Daan_>A century later, most of Thrace was conquered by the father of Alexander the Great. 10:58 <Erkan_Yilmaz>again a Philip :-) 10:59 <Daan_>Yep. 10:59 <Erkan_Yilmaz>seems a common name 10:59 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so the result of Sitalces campaing was: nothing ? 10:59 <Erkan_Yilmaz>showing off and going back again 10:59 <Daan_>"or perhaps he did think while he is in Chalcidice that Perdiccas could get behind him and close him in the Chalcidice ?" Who is he? 10:59 <Erkan_Yilmaz>he=Sitalces 11:00 <Daan_>Perdiccas was way to weak. 11:00 <Erkan_Yilmaz>and getting of course the sister of Perdiccas as wife for his nephew with lots of money 11:00 <Daan_>Sitalces only had to worry about food supply. 11:00 <Daan_>Yes. 11:00 <Daan_>Money and booty. 11:00 <Daan_>And a nice wife. 11:00 <Daan_>:-) 11:00 <Erkan_Yilmaz>do we have a picture of her ? 11:00 <Daan_>Sitalces won! 11:01 <Daan_>Maybe.

TODO

 * find out how tall the walls of Plataea were


text:
Category:Resources by level

__HIDDENCAT__ See Help:Resources by educational level for assistance with categorising resources by educational level.

title: Category:Resources by level


text:
Category:Resources by type

__HIDDENCAT__

title: Category:Resources by type


text:
Instructional design/User testing of e-learning courses/Analyzing the Results

Back to Topic: Instructional Design > User Testing of E-Learning Courses

Overview
In this lesson, you'll take a look at the kind of qualitative and quantitative results you can expect from a user test. Procedures for organizing the results are suggested, as well as some guidelines for analyzing the data once it has been compiled. Finally, some principles for both determining the severity of and assigning an action to each item will be presented.

Please note: The statistical analyses typically performed on quantitative data is complex and an entire course could be created around the subject. Thus, this lesson will focus primarily on how to analyze the quantitiative data from a user test.

Objectives
Upon completion of this lesson, you will be able to:
 * Analyze qualitative results, given the findings of a user test of an e-learning course

Lesson Topics
To go to a topic, click its title below:
 * 1) The Data
 * 2) Organizing the Data
 * 3) Analyzing the Data
 * 4) Check Your Knowledge 4

Back to Topic: Instructional Design > User Testing of E-Learning Courses


text:
Wikiversity:Publicity

Guided tours

 * Guided tour is promising.
 * Add pages for:
 * Help:User pages
 * Help:Talk pages
 * Create guided tours for different stakeholders (e.g., academic staff, students, and wikiworkers e.g., custodians)

Logo

 * Wikiversity/logo

Signatures

 * Some email signature templates to promote WV, e.g, using Motto and Slogan, with URL.
 * Perhaps banners with the Wikiversity Logo and motto that link to the site when you click on them?

Invite
Proforma text which can be used in an email to introduce someone to Wikiversity. It might include:
 * Explanation of WV
 * Logo
 * URL
 * Link to Tour
 * Link to Create Account

Perhaps there could be a hosted script to 'automatically' invite people by adding email address, name. Obviously would need to be done properly to prevent spamming.

Is there already a way to invite someone to a WMF wiki project?

Screensaver

 * Wikiversity screen saver

Twitter

 * Twitter

title: Wikiversity:Publicity


text:
Instructional design/User testing of e-learning courses/The Data

Back to Topic: Instructional Design > User Testing of E-Learning Courses > Analyzing the Results

Next Steps
So you've conducted your user test and have gathered some formative evaluation information. Depending on the style of user testing conducted, you might find yourself with one or several sources of data, including, but not limited to:

 * Video recording(s)
 * Audio recording(s)
 * Web recordings(s)
 * Users' written comments
 * Other evaluators' and/or your own written observations
 * Survey data
 * Exam results

Now what do you do with all this data? Regardless of how you conducted your user test, you'll be working with your data using the following basic steps:

Next, qualitative and quantitative data are looked at more closely. The steps in the process illustrated above will be discussed in subsequent topics.

Different Types of Data
A user test will result in several different types of information. This data will be quantitative or qualitative in nature. Quantitative describes data in terms of quantity, whereas qualitative describes data in terms of quality.

Here is an example describing the spicyness of Ashley Food Company’s Mad Dog 357 Hot Sauce:

Quantitative: This sauce measures 357,000 heat units on the Scoville Heat Scale.

Qualitative: This sauce tastes really hot!

It is possible to approximate quantitative data from qualitative data. For example, the data from a survey that uses a Likert scaleLikert_scale for the testers to rate their perceptions of the course can be measured using scaling techniques.

Quantitative Data
For an e-learning course, a user test might produce the following quantitative data:
 * Total seat-time (i.e., how long it took the learner to complete the course)
 * Time to complete practice tasks
 * Ratings on a satisfaction survey
 * Scores on an exam

Here is an quantitative data example of lesson seat-time from an actual user test of an e-learning course:

Qualitative Data
For an e-learning course, a user test might produce the following qualitative data:
 * Problems users had with the delivery platform
 * Comments about how the users liked/disliked the instruction
 * Corrections to the content of the instruction
 * Corrections to the content's style and formatting (e.g. spelling, punctuation, inconsistent page design)

Here are some qualitative data examples from actual user testing of two different e-learning courses:

Example 1: User Test, Learner Worksheet

Example 2: User Test, Observer Worksheet

Example 3: Do you recognize the user's comments below?

This is an excerpt from the Completed User Evaluation Form found in the knowledge check in the previous lesson, Conducting User Testing.

Back to Topic: Instructional Design > User Testing of E-Learning Courses > Analyzing the Results


text:
Instructional design/User testing of e-learning courses/Organizing the Data

Back to Topic: Instructional Design > User Testing of E-Learning Courses > Analyzing the Results

Qualitative Data
Quantitative data is best consolidated and managed by using a spreadsheet or datatbase. This way you can more easily perform descriptive and/or inferential statistical analysis on your data. A spreadsheet also makes it easier to spot patterns in the data.

Here are some examples of what you might calculate using a spreadsheet:
 * Determine reliability of a testing instrument using the test results
 * Analyze survey responses (e.g. Likert scale) individually or summatively
 * Average time to complete a lesson or topic
 * The frequency of specific problems

If your course is hosted on a learning management system (LMS)Learning_Management_System, then you may have access to reporting capabilities. Reporting might include testing scores, completion times, and survey results. The example below is an excerpt from a LMS report on a satisfaction survey of an e-learning course:

Quantitative Data
As with your qualitative data, you'll want to consolidate the quantitative comments and then review them collectively. This will make it easier to see trends in the results. For example, let's say you have ten testers. After consolidating their comments, you might see that eight out of the ten reviewers had comments for a particular page of the course. Even without analyzing their comments, you know right away that this is a potential trouble spot in the course.

Depending on how you conducted your user test, you'll be working with written data from the users themselves, and/or you'll be working from notes taken by an observer/interviewer while watching individual users take the course. Regardless of testing style, you need a method to organize the documented information. It makes sense to group the comments according to the course's location information.

The following is one method of organizing your qualitative data. The scenario is five testers of an e-learning course each using the worksheet (created in MSWord) provided to them for documenting their comments. Each tester dutifully submitted his/her worksheets at the end of the user testing period. The following are excerpts from each of the five worksheets.

WORKSHEET #1, TESTER: B. WALKER:

WORKSHEET #2, TESTER: K. EBY:

WORKSHEET #3, TESTER: V. THORNTON:

WORKSHEET #4, TESTER: T. RANDALL:

WORKSHEET #5, TESTER: A. MCCALLUM:

The next step is to take all five worksheets and create a single compiled version. The results look something like this:

Note that a color key has been created for ease of identifying the individual making the comment:

The above described method can become labor-intensive if you have a large number of testers. Some e-learning companies develop automated solutions to compiling their user test results. For example, you could create a macro in MSWord that allows you to feed the information directly into a customized database program (e.g. FileMaker Pro).

Back to Topic: Instructional Design > User Testing of E-Learning Courses > Analyzing the Results


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Instructional design/User testing of e-learning courses/Analyzing the Data

Back to Topic: Instructional Design > User Testing of E-Learning Courses > Analyzing the Results

Reviewing the Results
Once you've compiled your data, you should review each item to make sure that you understand the comment. In some cases, you might need to obtain clarification using several methods. These might include:
 * Circling back with the user to ask what he/she meant by the comment
 * Going into the course and trying to reproducing the error
 * In the case of software application training, verifying the way the application functions

Analysis and Action
As you review, clarify, and verify each comment, you'll want to analyze reported problems and determine their severity. In other words, if there is a complaint or requested revision to the content, should you fix it? Based on a problem's severity, you'll be able to propose an action to take.

Here is one way to categorize your data from the highest to the lowest priority:

Deal Breaker: An example of a deal breaker is anything that provides incorrect information to the learner. You never want to convey wrong information. A deal breaker can also be a bug in the courseware that causes it to malfunction, or that gives the learner the perception that something is "broken." Another example might be a design element that creates universal frustration/confusion across the majority of testers. Even though the design made it through all the previous formative evaluations (i.e. Analysis/Design, Storyboard, Prototype, ALPHA), if the testers give it a resounding "thumbs down," you should probably think seriously of a redesign.

Serious: An example of serious comment is where a user makes a valid suggestion for revising the content, but not because the content is wrong. Rather, he/she makes a suggestion for improving its presentation as a Subject Matter Expert (SME). Deciding on an action for this type of comment is often mediated by budgetary and timeline constraints. In other words, what is the level of effort for this change and do you have the time and money to make it? If not, suggestions such as this should be saved for future revisions to the courseware.

Minor: An example of a minor problem is where a user makes a suggestion based on his/her personal preference. Maybe he/she thinks that the narrator reads the voice-over too fast, or comments that the material is too pendantic, or perhaps he/she would like to see a yellow highlight instead of a blue highlight. Unless you have a majority of users reporting the same thing, you can probably designate comments such as these as a "NO FIX." Again, if upon reviewing the user's comment against the course you find that you agree, you need to consider the level of effort for this change and whether you have the time and money.

N/A: You can designate a "not applicable" or "N/A" to feedback that is simply a comment (e.g. praising the course) or to reported problems that you could not reproduce.

Another important aspect of analysis is whether or not a proposed fix is a local or global issue. If you suspect the issue might occur in similar content, such as a popup box or interaction, you should do a full QA of the course to make sure that they are all caught and fixed.

Example
Continuing with the scenario introduced in the previous topic, Organizing the Data, the following table shows the severity and action determined through analysis of the user test results. Note that a column has simply been added to the existing worksheet for this information.

Back to Topic: Instructional Design > User Testing of E-Learning Courses > Analyzing the Results


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Enlightenment course research

This page is to organise and discuss strategies for doing research on a collaborative, wiki-based course.

Context
From September through december 2007 I worked with students from 2 secondary schools in the Netherlands (Almere) on WIKI on Enlightment. Two classes ( students 16-18 years old) worked in a project in which they did research on Enlightenment from the perspective of Philosophy and English and Dutch literature. The project was part of a research project on CSCL ( Computer Supported Collaborative Learning) I did this as a teacher-researcher. The students had to build a WIKI on Enlightment from the 3 different perspectives I mentioned above. My research lookes at 1. collaboration, 2. integration of subject perspectives and 3. motivation. I'm still working on the research and would like to discuss the way to research the online behaviour of students. Cormac Lawler and Erkan Yilmaz thought this was a good idea and they made this page on Wikiversity to share our ideas and experience. So: Lets start!Jeroencl 08:15, 25 March 2008 (UTC) I have two other CSCL projects now, using Wikis as a collaborative space. My school collaborates with a school in Macedonia and Aruba. Look at the Macedonia project [].

goal
Students collaborate, using a wiki. How can you analyse and interpret the online conversations of these students. This must be a qualitative analysis. My idea is to make a converstaion alalysis, like Coulthard or other sociolinguists and pragmalinguists did 20 years ago. We could use the idea of speech acts also. But maybe there are other, promising ideas also. I hope there is some experience in doing this kind of research. Hope we can work together using Wikiversity. Jeroencl 09:11, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

next steps
I will share the first steps I took in analysing the data. The problem is that the data are i Dutch. I will use English terms for the analysis. Use the discussion page for discussion or edit this pageJeroencl 09:12, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

participants
Everyone, working with WIKI's / other Web 2.0 tools, interested in CSCL with students.

title: Enlightenment course research


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