text:
Wikiversity:Candidates for Custodianship/Mu301 (full custodian)

See also: Candidates for Custodianship/Mu301

Mu301
I'd like to nominate Mu301 (Mike) for full custodianship. He has been active in both outreach discussions and administrative chores, learning well how to use them, and being quite active and available via IRC. He has shown himself to be a contributor worthy of the community's trust, and a contributor concerned with and excited about the potential of Wikiversity as we move foreward. --SB_Johnny | talk 16:02, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Comments

 * I've seen many positive contributions from User:Mu301 and can't disagree with anything User:SB Johnny has said about him. Please just make sure we have enough mops and buckets in the back. --Remi 01:19, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * support: pictures here in WV and from the universe are dear to his heart, Erkan Yilmaz ( Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog ) 01:29, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Support. --McCormack 10:53, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

✅ Comments are very clear. Congratulations! sebmol ? 09:03, 24 February 2008 (UTC)


text:
Thucydides: The Peloponnesian War/Meetings/2008-February-16

This is the chat from our meeting on 16th February 2008 in #thucydides about Thucydides: The Peloponnesian War.

People joining the chat: assassingr, Daan, Erkan Yilmaz, myrmikonos, Phidias, pietrodn, Ramac, savagerose

14:06 so, I have read the text 100-125 others too ? so we know if we should make a summary first

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14:07 I did so as well. 14:07 The first 20 aphorisms was a huge amount of facts. 14:07 yeah, lots of the past before the Peloponnesian War 14:07 Followed by the Corinthian speech to convince the confederation to start a war versus Athens. 14:09 Corinthian speech started at book I, 120 and before 100-120 was the summary of the historical events 14:09 i wrote down some themes on the Thucydides reading group article. 14:09 should we shortly state them, so others also know ? 14:09 they are about this 100-125 ? 14:09 Yes, that is good. 14:09 Yes, they are. 14:09 ah, so post them here then 14:09 I will look them up. 14:09 ok 14:10 ok 14:10 pietrodn did you read the text ? 14:10 http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Thucydides:_The_Peloponnesian_War#Proposals 14:10 <Daan_>It starts in the middle. 14:10 <Erkan_Yilmaz>or other question: who wants to have a short summary on the text ? 14:10 No, I didn't... but I studied the notes by my history teacher 14:10 <Erkan_Yilmaz>you clever boy :-) 14:11 * Erkan_Yilmaz reads the link now 14:11 :-)

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14:11 <Ramac>pietrodn: also i last year studied peloponnesian war... i had 9 in the class test... but now i can't remember well :(

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14:12 <Erkan_Yilmaz>Ramac great so you know already about it 14:12 Ramac: np 14:12 <Ramac>yes i studied last year... 14:12 ^^ 14:12 <Erkan_Yilmaz>it is easy then, when we shortly talk about the facts you easily can join or ? 14:12 <Ramac>atene, sparta, segesta, corinto... 14:12 <Daan_>Atene is Athens in Italian? 14:13 <Ramac>yes sorry ;) 14:13 <Daan_>It is Athene in dutch 14:14 http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Athens 14:14 <Daan_>The city is in the dictionary. 14:15 <Daan_>gotta go to the toilet. 14:15 <Erkan_Yilmaz>:-) 14:15 <Ramac>:D 14:15 - Phidias joined 14:15 <Erkan_Yilmaz>hi Phidias 14:16 <Phidias>hi there :) 14:16 <Erkan_Yilmaz>myrmikonos this is the Phidias you mentioned ? 14:16 <Phidias>english, or german? 14:16 Hi Phidias 14:16 <Phidias>ah ... kay ... eng ^^ 14:16 <Phidias>jep, I'm the one and only ^^ 14:16 there is onlz one real Phidias in this wolrd 14:16 <( 14:16 <Ramac>hi Phidias 14:16 haha 14:17 <Erkan_Yilmaz>but Phidias died 1 year before the Peloponnesian War :-( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phidias 14:17 <Phidias>so I'm the ghost of him ;) 14:17 <Erkan_Yilmaz>:-) 14:18 Phidias was a very good sculptor 14:18 <Daan_>And a reincarnation 14:18 <Ramac>pietrodn: yes, he was the author of the partenon 14:18 <Daan_>Hi Phidias! 14:18 <Phidias>jep, jep jep ... but ... back to topic? :D 14:19 <Phidias>hy daan 14:19 <Erkan_Yilmaz>Phidias what do you know about the P. War ? 14:19 <Erkan_Yilmaz>shall we make a summary about todays content of Book I 100-125 ? 14:19 <Daan_>Who read the text and who didn't? 14:19 Erkan_Yilmaz: I think that we should make a short summary 14:19 <Daan_>I did read it. 14:19 * Erkan_Yilmaz fears only Daan_ + me 14:19 * pietrodn didn't 14:19 Ramac: Along with Kallikratis

Egyptian expedition
14:20 <Phidias>umm ... a bit here, a bit there ... i've wrote some work about the egyptian expedition mentionend within the passages, that you should discuss right now ^^ 14:20 <Erkan_Yilmaz>great 14:20 <Ramac>ictino and kalikratys, i dunno the translation... 14:20 <Daan_>The egyptian expedition was interesting. 14:20 <Erkan_Yilmaz>why because so many dead people ? :-) 14:20 <Phidias>yes, the beginning of the end ^^ 14:20 <Daan_>Especially the Corinthians and Epidaurians fighting on the Persian side versus Athens. 14:20 The egyptian expedition was after the 2nd Persian War... and before the Peace of Callias, isn't it? 14:21 <Daan_>Oh well, it is more original than a heart attack. 14:21 <Phidias>yes, right this one 14:21 <Daan_>Pietro, i don't know. 14:21 <Daan_>I guess so. 14:22 <Phidias>that onw that endet with the defeat of the whole athenian expeditioncorps ^^ 14:22 <Daan_>Yes. 14:22 <Daan_>Important for the athenians was the Phoenician fleet. 14:22 Daan_: there was a rebellion by the Egyptians against Persia, and the Grreks helped Egyptians, but they lost. 14:22 *greeks 14:23 <Daan_>The Phoenicians were part of the Persian Empire, and their fleet was as strong as those of the Greeks. 14:23 Daan_: then Greeks and Persians signed the Peace of Callias 14:23 <Daan_>Oh, okay. 14:23 <Phidias>jep, somewhat about 150 to 200 triremes plus crew got killed 14:23 Daan_: Phoenicians had a very strong commercial fleet 14:23 <Daan_>It was in the text i think. But the text mentioned a lot of details. 14:24 <Phidias>the text is just about details :D 14:24 <Daan_>And the Persians also got Greek fleets, from Asia and Cyprus. 14:24 <Daan_>Yes, it is. 14:24 <Erkan_Yilmaz>I, 104 200 ships which were located atm in Cyprus 14:24 <Daan_>Well, the Corinthian speech is more coherent. 14:24 <Phidias>Oo where did you find this concrete numbers? 14:25 <Daan_>In the text of Thucydides! 14:25 <Erkan_Yilmaz>later also 50 Athenian ships were destroyed I, 110 14:25 <Phidias>ah 14:25 <Phidias>i see ^^ 14:25 <Erkan_Yilmaz>besides the losses of great people 14:26 Athens and Phoenicians was rivals also before the Persian Wars 14:26 <Daan_>A few days ago i read about the history of Cyprus. 14:26 <Daan_>It had several kingdoms which had to pay tribute to Persia. 14:26 <Phidias>but it can't be such an large ammount, because the whole fleet existet of about 300 ships, the expedition lastet about 6 years and the athenians use much more than 100 ships in the meanwhile 14:26 <Erkan_Yilmaz>Phoenicia (or Phenicia \fi-ˈnish-(ē-)ə, -ˈnēsh-\,[1] from Biblical Phenice \fi-ˈnī-sē\[1]) was an ancient civilization centered in the north of ancient Canaan, with its heartland along the coast of modern day Lebanon, Syria and Israel.[2] from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenecian 14:27 <Erkan_Yilmaz>the 200 ships meant Athenian and from allies 14:27 <Daan_>Yes. 14:28 <Erkan_Yilmaz>let me reread 14:28 <Daan_>I think the Athenian Empire was a copy of the PErsian Empire: several small states which have to pay tribute to the centre. 14:28 Daan_: Greece wasn't an unificated state 14:29 uh, Athenian Empire, sorry 14:29 <Daan_>Yes, several states were independent from both Persia and athens. 14:29 <Erkan_Yilmaz>Abandoning a Cyprian expedition upon which they happened to be engaged with two hundred ships of their own and their allies, they arrived in Egypt and sailed from the sea into the Nile, and making themselves masters of the river and two-thirds of Memphis, addressed themselves to the attack of the remaining third, which is called White Castle. Within it were Persians and Medes who had taken refuge there, and Egyptians who had not joined the rebellion. 14:29 <Phidias>but the most allied fleets are somewhat about 20 or 30 ships and the most alies of athens preferred to pay tribute instead of sailing into war :) 14:29 <Erkan_Yilmaz>http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/History_of_the_Peloponnesian_War/Book_1 14:29 Daan_: they still were separated poleis 14:30 <Daan_>Yes, they were. But the same counts for several parts of the Persian Empire. It is a similar system. Allthough the Persians also got provinces. 14:30 <Erkan_Yilmaz>Phidias is right with the allies and tribute 14:30 THe Persian Empire was a federated empire 14:30 <Daan_>Yes. 14:30 <Erkan_Yilmaz>I think only a few states had navy like Lesbos, Samos, ... 14:30 <Phidias>so if the amount of athenian losses would count about 200 ships, there would have been no chance for them resisting sparta and his allies in the coming time and there would have been absolutely no chance for them to intervene in sicily 14:31 <Daan_>Other than the preceding Babylonian Empire, which was very authoritarian. 14:31 <Daan_>It depends on how quick a shipyard builds new ships. 14:31 Daan_: The poleis of the Delian League was submitted by Athens, the satrapies wre part of the Persian empire, it's different IMHO 14:31 *were 14:31 <Erkan_Yilmaz>probably takes time to bild a ship 14:31 <Daan_>Athens had a large population besides. 14:32 <Daan_>Satrapies were provinces, but Cyprus was a dependency with poleis. 14:32 [i am always smiling, when somebody write Lesbos ;) ] 14:32 <Erkan_Yilmaz>haha 14:32 <Daan_>A dependency of Persia. 14:32 <Phidias>:D 14:32 <Daan_>Are you from Lesbos? 14:32 nope , 14:33 Dresden 14:33 <Phidias>uhm ... ships were constructed quite fast, but they were quite expensive ... 14:33 <Daan_>Dresden? 14:33 <Erkan_Yilmaz>Daan_ he smiles because of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lesbian 14:33 <Phidias>germany, saxonia ^^ 14:34 Themistocles said to build ships, after the 2nd persian war 14:34 <Erkan_Yilmaz>but: "The word lesbian dates back at least to 1732 and lesbianism appears in the 1870 Oxford English Dictionary meaning sexual orientation rather than a reference to Sappho and inhabitants of Lesbos."  14:34 <Phidias>yes pietro, that is why the athenians had about 300 ships ;) 14:35 <Daan_>Nowadays there are probably some earlier texts, isn't it. 14:35 Themistocles said to build ships, after the 1st persian war, sorry 14:35 <Erkan_Yilmaz>I have here also a text which tells Athens had 300 triremes 14:35 not 2nd 14:35 <Erkan_Yilmaz>plus troup transporters and such 14:36 <Daan_>What if history: What if athens could have held on to Egypt. 14:36 where were the trees for 300 ships v.v 14:36 <Daan_>Crimea? 14:36 <Erkan_Yilmaz>I think from Thracia and such regions ? 14:36 <Phidias>hmm ... first, bnecause it was the athenian fleet, which led the naval expedition at artemision near the thermopyles 14:36 <Daan_>Athens was a trading nation, so you use ships for transporting wood. 14:36 <Daan_>Holland got its wood from Sweden in the 17th century. 14:37 <Phidias>^^ 14:37 <Phidias>in ancient times greek had much more wood than nowadays ;) 14:37 <Daan_>Nowadays the world is rapidly losing wood. 14:37 <Phidias>but the mainpart of wood was indeed imported 14:38 <Phidias>phoenician "zedernholz" (i dont know the english expression for that :-/) was one of the most expensive tradegoods 14:38 <Erkan_Yilmaz>cedar wood 14:38 <Daan_>Perhaps Erkan knows it, he is german. 14:38 <Daan_>Too late :-) 14:39 <Erkan_Yilmaz>too fast :-) 14:39 <Daan_>Or just in time :-) 14:39 <Phidias>i don't know if thracia was famous for wood, but macedonian wood was :) 14:39 <Daan_>They were neighbours. 14:40 <Phidias>jup, but macedonia supported sparta most times 14:40 <Daan_>Otherwise they would have been slaves according to corinth 14:40 <Erkan_Yilmaz>you mean Perdiccas who always switched sides ? :-) 14:40 <Daan_>Fighting for freedom. 14:41 <Daan_>That was a funny guy. 14:41 <Erkan_Yilmaz>:-) 14:42 <Erkan_Yilmaz>sorry I was busy with some other channels :-( 14:42 <Daan_>Shall we continue the discussion. 14:43 <Phidias>go on :)

free oligarchs versus the Athenian democracy
14:43 <Daan_>What about the free oligarchs versus the Athenian democracy, where you have to pay tribute. 14:43 <Phidias>(what was the topic? :D ) 14:43 <Daan_>Anyone got an opinion about it? 14:43 <Daan_>I thought it was, it was ...... 14:44 <Daan_>Me and Erkan had the idea of appointing a chairman every time, who will guide the discussion. 14:44 <Daan_>rotating chairmanship. 14:44 Daan_: The Athens politic is a sort of talassocracy 14:45 <Phidias>you mean the oligarchs, that tried to convince the spartans to attack athens before the battle of tanagra, or which ones? 14:45 <Daan_>Pietro, i will look it up. 14:45 <Daan_>All the rulers of the confederation versus Athens probably were oligarchs. 14:45 <Daan_>During the Peloponnesian War. 14:46 <Erkan_Yilmaz>not all, some states like Elis were more democratic oriented 14:46 <Phidias>ah ... yes, the most ones 14:46 <Daan_>I can't find it on Wikipedia, Pietro. 14:46 Daan_: It's like the politic of Crete, the submitted lands was independent, but they had to pay a tribute 14:47 Daan_: I don't know the English for "talassocrazia" 14:47 <Daan_>So, it was independent states versus the athenian Empire, regardless of democracy. 14:47 I'm trying to explain it shortly 14:47 <Erkan_Yilmaz>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalassocracy 14:47 <Daan_>Okay 14:47 <Erkan_Yilmaz>"The term thalassocracy (from the Greek Θαλασσα, meaning sea, and κρατία, meaning rule) refers to a state with primarily maritime realms—an empire at sea, such as the Phoenician network of merchant cities. Traditional thalassocracies seldom dominate interiors, even in their home territories (for example: Tyre, Sidon, or Carthage). Distinguish this traditional sense of thalassocracy from an "empire," where the state's territories, though possibly linked principally or solely by the sea lanes, generally extend into mainland interiors. Therefore, empires such as the British Empire were not thalassocracies." 14:48 Daan_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalassocracy 14:48 <Phidias>independent is just a phrase .... the spartans used this terminus for propaganda ;) 14:48 <Erkan_Yilmaz>true 14:48 uh, Erkan linked first 14:49 <Daan_>According to the Corinthians in the speech, the countries in the interior will be supressed after Athens had conquered all the countries on the coast. 14:49 <Daan_>So, the countries in the interior are asked to fight athens as well. 14:49 <Daan_>Phidias, that is always the case ;-) 14:50 <Phidias>so you have to say it all the time :d 14:50 <Daan_>During the First World War, Poland was Russian and the Germans promised liberty, so the Poles fought on the german side. 14:50 <Daan_>Afterwards Germany conquered Poland and the Russians promised liberty. 14:51 <Daan_>But, both Germany and Russia lost. 14:51 <Daan_>Phidias, yes. 14:51 <Phidias>hmm ... it took quite a long time for russia to loose ^^ 14:52 <Daan_>After world War II it was. 14:52 <Daan_>But between WWI and WWII, Poland was independent. 14:52 - savagerose joined 14:53 <Daan_>Hi Savagerose! 14:53 <Phidias>ye, because russia had to cope with itself ... revolution and this stuff - i would not call this a lost ^^ 14:53 hi Daan 14:53 hrhrhr 14:54 <Daan_>Lets discuss Thucydides again, otherwise peopel get a wrong impression. (We were discussing 20th century Eastern europe) 14:54 <Daan_>We are discussingthe text of Thucydides, savagerose. 14:55 <Daan_>Aphorisms 101 to 125 from book i of the Peloponnesian War by thucydides. 14:55 <Phidias>so, what do you think of the situation in sparta after the earthquake? :) 14:55 <Daan_>When was the earthquake? 14:55 okay i will listen to you :) i am just on a explaration tour on this network.. 14:55 <Phidias>the messenian riot and all this stuff 14:55 <Daan_>Oh yes. 14:55 <Phidias>kimon was sent there for aid, but was repelled 14:56 <Daan_>I have a habit of supporting the underdog, so i was in favour of the Messenians. 14:56 <Daan_>The athenians were becoming too powerfull, i guess. 14:56 Phidias: kimon was exiliated for this 14:56 <Daan_>The treatment of Thasos was too wrong? 14:57 <Daan_>Athens stole a mine and a few markets from Thasos. 14:57 <Daan_>With brutal force. 14:57 (sorry for disturbing but you read some texts and then discuss on it?) 14:57 <Phidias>i think this earthquake is somehow very important for athens because if kimon did not leave athens, ephialtes could not have knocked down the power of the areopag 14:57 <Daan_>That is what we are experimenting about. 14:58 <Daan_>But, we have just been started and perhaps the discussion is too chaotic at the moment. 14:58 <Phidias>no, he was exiliated for trying to undo the decisions of ephialtes 14:58 <Phidias>not for aiding the spartans 14:58 <Daan_>I will look it up. The text was the thick, so i missed too many details. 15:00 <Daan_>Aphorism 102, isn't it? 15:00 <Phidias>and problably i'm a bit to free in my words ... i study this stuff and so i don't keep it at the text all the tima 15:00 <Phidias>wait a sec 15:01 <Phidias>its a bit later

language, Aristophanes
15:01 <Daan_>According to the Spartans the Athenians were aliens in race. 15:01 <Phidias>i'm still looking for it 15:01 <Phidias>yes they were ... 15:02 <Phidias>spartans are doric and the athenians primarily ionians :) 15:02 <Daan_>In 124, the Corinthians say that Dorians (Sparta, Corinth) used to be stronger than the Ionians (Athens), but the roles have been reversed. 15:02 <Daan_>So, it was racism. 15:03 Phidias: Yes, but dorics and Ionians spoke the same language, this is interesting... 15:03 <Phidias>no, not really - its more sort of nationalism on smaller scale 15:03 <Daan_>Perhaps the dialect was different. 15:03 <Phidias>no they did not ... not completely 15:03 Daan_: demonizing the enemy is an old method... 15:03 <Daan_>Yes, but it it sincere or not. 15:03 <Daan_>is it sincere 15:03 Daan_: yes, different dialects, but Ionians could understand Dorics e.g. 15:04 <Phidias>it is somewhat like bavarian an saxonian - they are both german, but don't really understand eachother ^^ 15:04 <Daan_>Like in Dutch understanding Germans? 15:04 <Phidias>yes 15:04 <Daan_>Yes, that is a good one. 15:04 <Phidias>like this 15:05 <Daan_>Or maybe it was more related to customs instead of language. 15:05 <Phidias>you should try to read aristophanes 15:05 <Daan_>Text 102 says the athenians didn't use the appropriate methods to win the fight. 15:05 <Daan_>I haven't read him. 15:05 <Phidias>he is using the different dialects to create some sort of funny situations 15:05 <Daan_>What does Aristophanes say? 15:05 <Phidias>lysistrate for example :) 15:06 <Daan_>What si lysistrate? 15:06 <Daan_>is 15:06 thats not the attic style 15:06 <Phidias>its a comedy of aristophanes ^^ 15:07 <Daan_>Okay 15:07 <Phidias>comedy? 15:07 <Phidias>is it called comedy? 15:07 <Daan_>Yes, that is english. 15:07 <Phidias>cool ^^ 15:07 * Erkan_Yilmaz is back and must backread 15:07 <Daan_>Hi Erkan 15:07 <Erkan_Yilmaz>hi 15:08 phidias do u really read this stuff in ancient greek? 15:08 * Daan_ is trying to distract Erkan from reading. 15:08 <Daan_>Is it much different from modern Greek? 15:08 <Phidias>no, but sometimes i took a look into the ancient part ^^ 15:09 * myrmikonos fears the next episode of ute 15:09 <Daan_>It is only 2400 years ago, that can'tbe much. 15:09 <Phidias>no ... ute uses platon till the end - i red aristophanes because lucas told me :) 15:10 hm 15:11 <Erkan_Yilmaz>hi savagerose 15:11 <Erkan_Yilmaz>I also never read Aristophanes 15:11 <Phidias>modern greek uses some expressions from ancient ... and some grammatical smilarities, but 400 years within th osmanian kingdom di leave their traces 15:11 hi Erkan 15:11 <Phidias>they have a lot of turkish exressions nowadays 15:11 <Erkan_Yilmaz>assassingr you must have read Aristophanes too ? 15:12 I did 15:12 <Erkan_Yilmaz>how did you find us savagerose ? 15:12 Some works of him though 15:12 Savagerose? 15:12 from the list :D 15:12 <Erkan_Yilmaz>the freenode list ? 15:12 yes,, well it was a random choice but i liked the discussion.. 15:12 <Erkan_Yilmaz>:-) 15:12 merhaba :) 15:13 <Erkan_Yilmaz>hello to you too :-) 15:13 Have you read any work of Aristophanes? 15:13 <Erkan_Yilmaz>me no, but Phidias has (see above) 15:14 i remember i read but cant translate it into english now.. 15:14 I see, but he doesn't mention which work :) 15:14 <Erkan_Yilmaz>Lysistratus 15:14 <Phidias>well ... i did not want to turn the discussin to aristophanes ... 15:15 <Erkan_Yilmaz>:-) 15:15 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so, what was the last which was discussed about Peloponnesian War ? 15:15 <Phidias>it was just so that you can see the diffent kinds of dialects that were in use in these days 15:16 <Erkan_Yilmaz>well it could probably used in war times to distract the enemy on the field 15:16 i am supposed to know something about aristophanes, but at least i´ve forgotten everything during the last weeks of examens 15:16 <Erkan_Yilmaz>if he speaks the same way you assume he is your friend 15:16 i failed so much :v 15:16 <Phidias>:(

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Corinthian Speech
15:23 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so what next ? talk about some of your questions ? 15:23 <Erkan_Yilmaz>or continue on the text itself ? 15:23 <Daan_>The text is too unstructured. 15:23 <Daan_>Only the Corinthian speech is a coherent story. 15:23 <Daan_>But, it is a beauty. 15:24 <Daan_>The speech alone is worth a discussion for hours. 15:24 <Daan_>What about the distinction between wise and brave? 15:24 <Daan_>I will lokk for the footnotes. 15:24 <Erkan_Yilmaz>are the others still with us ? pietrodn Ramac assassingr myrmikonos savagerose ? 15:24 * pietrodn should go now, he has a lot of homework... 15:25 Yeap, I am 15:25 <Erkan_Yilmaz>just excuses :-) 15:25 * Phidias too :( 15:25 <Ramac>hi 15:25 But busy with wikiversity :) 15:25 <Daan_>Wise men refuse to move until they are wronged, but brave men as soon as they are wronged go to war, and when there is a good opportunity make peace again. They are not intoxicated by military success; but neither will they tolerate injustice from a love of peace and ease. For he whom pleasure makes a coward will quickly lose, if he continues inactive, the delights of ease which he is so... 15:25 here but i prefer just listening and lurking :) 15:25 <Daan_>...unwilling to renounce; and he whose arrogance is stimulated by victory does not see how hollow is the confidence which elates him. Many schemes which were ill-advised have succeeded through the still greater folly which possessed the enemy, and yet more, which seemed to be wisely contrived, have ended in foul disaster. The execution of an enterprise is never equal70 to the conception of... 15:25 <Daan_>...it in the confident mind of its promoter; for men are safe while they are forming plans, but, when the time of action comes, then they lose their presence of mind and fail. 15:25 But I hope my presence gives you strenght 15:25 <Daan_>Aphorism 124 15:26 <Erkan_Yilmaz>ok, lets talk about aphorism 124 15:26 - pietrodn quited ("Think different!") 15:26 <Ramac>:| 15:28 <Phidias>so ... what do you want to talk about exactly? ^^ 15:28 <Erkan_Yilmaz>I just see my aphorism 124 is different than your 124 15:28 <Daan_>It is, how so? 15:28 <Daan_>I used the Jowett translation. 15:28 <Erkan_Yilmaz>I have a German text and the text above is for me at 120 15:28 <Daan_>Funny 15:29 <Phidias>the speech is quite interesting, indeed, but its more some kind of summary of the position of the peleponnesian league - not more, not less :) 15:29 <Erkan_Yilmaz>it reminds me of speeches of Archidamus a little bit with failing things in war which you can't know from begin 15:30 <Daan_>Well, this is an attempt to convince people to go to war, but what i like is the poetry of the text. 15:30 <Daan_>The poetic nature, i mean. 15:30 <Daan_>Yes. 15:30 <Daan_>Erkan: yes. 15:31 <Erkan_Yilmaz>Archidamus - if I remember correct - was saying: be prudent, keep what you have 15:31 <Phidias>hm ... damn, i think i remember another speech ^^ 15:31 *looking after the 120 th aph." 15:31 <Erkan_Yilmaz>could be my memory is bad :-) 15:31 <Daan_>But keeping what you have can sometimes mean that war is inevitable. 15:31 <Erkan_Yilmaz>didnt pericles also wantto keep what they have ? 15:32 <Daan_>Yes, they were afraid of losing it. 15:32 <Erkan_Yilmaz>not so much expansion to not fight on many corners 15:33 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so what are the Corinthians saying ? don't be so lazy 15:34 <Daan_>I especially like the first sentence 15:34 <Erkan_Yilmaz>can you post it ? 15:34 <Phidias>he already did, i think ^^ 15:34 * Erkan_Yilmaz scrolls up 15:35 <Daan_>The first three sentences. 15:35 <Phidias>so ... i think we should stop discussing this in our wise manner and go to war, to make peace again :D 15:36 <Daan_>The problem is, when is it brave to go to war. When do you know that war is better than peace. 15:36 <Daan_>I am mostly always a pacifist. 15:36 <Phidias>simply: when you are wronged ... he is saying it ^^ 15:37 <Daan_>Yes, but how do you know that? 15:37 <Phidias>if sombody makes a fool of you, you go to war until there is an situation that you are comfortable with 15:38 <Daan_>That would be very macho indeed. 15:38 <Phidias>i think ... you know, when somebody does something wrong to you - they used the common sense at these days ^^ 15:38 <Erkan_Yilmaz>well, back in that time probably honor was quite important 15:39 <Phidias>yes, very ... and they were indeed quite macho :D 15:39 <Erkan_Yilmaz>wasn't this e.g. why Corinth quarreled with Corcyra ? 15:39 <Daan_>Yes, but in the second sentence he uses injustice. 15:39 <Daan_>Yes, perhaps. 15:40 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so, whom does the Corinthian want to convince ? probably the Lacadaemonians and the not coastal cities 15:40 <Daan_>This is only the speech of one guy, there were other Corinthians who made contradictory speeches. 15:40 <Daan_>Simple, to get as much allies for the war as possible. 15:40 <Phidias>yes, but justice in this days is not some kind of institutional justice, or justice by law - it is the justice of "being the one, who is right" 15:40 <Erkan_Yilmaz>the text tells many allies were already in favour 15:41 <Daan_>Phidias, that is right. 15:41 <Daan_>It could be argued that the world is a country today, but back in those days there were many countries. 15:42 <Daan_>So, there were several kinds of justice. Now we got the Human Rights of the United Nations. 15:42 <Phidias>so ... if he is trying to convince sombody, it are the spartans, because until this debate, they did not officially intervene angainst athens 15:42 <Phidias>yes 15:42 <Daan_>It means that there can be a reason to go to war. People could be sold as slaves back then when they lost a war. 15:43 <Phidias>erase "could" and set "were" ;) 15:43 <Daan_>The Spartans already voted for war. Corinth was trying to persuade other allies. 15:43 <Daan_>Not always, i presume. 15:43 <Erkan_Yilmaz>you mean the voting of Sthenelaidas ? 15:44 <Daan_>Yes. 15:44 <Daan_>That was before the speech. 15:44 <Erkan_Yilmaz>I assume if Sparta would have wanted war, then Corinth would not had to go the deal with such speeches 15:44 <Phidias>no ... the spartans gathered the allies, to see, what they thought of going to war, because the spartans themselfes were not sure 15:44 <Phidias>they even asked the oracle in delphi^^ 15:44 <Erkan_Yilmaz>yes, to have all "secure" 15:44 <Daan_>Oh, okay. I thought they had already voted. The king of Sparta wasn't sure indeed. 15:45 <Daan_>The arrogance of victory is also a beatyful argument. 15:45 <Daan_>Beautiful 15:45 <Phidias>^^ 15:45 <Erkan_Yilmaz>well probably people at Sparta also had different opinions (e.g. the ephors at that time wanted war and others did not) 15:45 <Phidias>indeed 15:46 <Daan_>Yes. 15:46 <Daan_>If you fighting a war on life and death, than you can't be overconfident. 15:46 <Daan_>Otherwise you might lose. 15:46 <Daan_>So, a brave man knows what's going on, even when it is bad news. 15:47 <Phidias>or: a brave man knows, when the time has come to go to war 15:47 <Erkan_Yilmaz>well I guess during the battle you are pretty much overconfident, when you see the blood and blood hits you 15:47 <Erkan_Yilmaz>they are here all just talking 15:47 <Erkan_Yilmaz>in theory everything should be this and that 15:48 <Daan_>Yes, but a brave man also knows when he is losing and will anticipate on it. 15:48 <Daan_>The last sentence describes it 15:48 <Phidias>so that he can make peace, right :) 15:48 <Erkan_Yilmaz>I am not sure if a brave man in one small area knows how the battle is going to develop 15:48 <Daan_>"The execution of an enterprise is never equal70 to the conception of it in the confident mind of its promoter; for men are safe while they are forming plans, but, when the time of action comes, then they lose their presence of mind and fail" 15:49 <Daan_>When you are making plans it is nothing compared to real action. 15:49 <Erkan_Yilmaz>yes 15:49 <Erkan_Yilmaz>it is good to have a plan 15:49 seneca : only the dead have seen the end of war 15:49 <Daan_>"Many schemes which were ill-advised have succeeded through the still greater folly which possessed the enemy, and yet more, which seemed to be wisely contrived, have ended in foul disaster." 15:49 <Phidias>^^^ 15:49 <Erkan_Yilmaz>but the plans are just to show that you thought about it 15:49 <Daan_>This is the sentence before the last one. 15:50 <Daan_>Well, you have to make a plan, but it has a good chance of failing. 15:50 <Daan_>A brave man would know it, and wouldn't hesitate like a wise man. 15:50 <Daan_>That is the poetry of the text. 15:51 <Erkan_Yilmaz>I agree the text itself on meta context 15:51 <Erkan_Yilmaz>any plan can and will always fail, because you do not consider all variables 15:51 <Daan_>What is a meta context? 15:51 <Phidias>hmm ... i think he is referring to the point, that athens was at the peak of its power in this days and nobody knew, how it would end up 15:52 <Erkan_Yilmaz>with meta context I mean: the Corinthians are standing in the apella or how it is called and have before thought about how to present them 15:52 <Erkan_Yilmaz>they will make the speech foolproof to convince the others (who do not want yet to goto war) 15:52 <Erkan_Yilmaz>but still if I were against war, I would not believe anything from what they tell 15:52 <Erkan_Yilmaz>they are just marketing atm 15:53 <Daan_>Yes, that is the problem with nice speeches in politics: they probably only serve a certain purpose, and the person he makes the speech doesn't really believe in it. 15:53 <Phidias>something like: "if we attack athens right now, we can problably beat it. but if we kep on waiting (like a wise man), it could grow stronger and then we will never be able to beat it." 15:54 <Daan_>No, he says that it is wrong always to hesitate, sometimes it is time to fight. But, he does say that he doesn't know what is best. 15:55 <Phidias>rhetorics -.- 15:55 <Daan_>If he had said what you say, Phidias, than the enmies of war would have protested. 15:55 <Phidias>right 15:55 so Daan : there are 3 (three) ways of doings something : doing something right, wrong or the militaristic way 15:56 <Daan_>It is too little for the those against war to say it is too much and it could convince those who hesitate. 15:56 <Erkan_Yilmaz>there is a 4th way 15:56 <Erkan_Yilmaz>doing nothing and wait 15:56 that could be wrong and good 15:56 <Erkan_Yilmaz>could be 15:56 <Phidias>someone could say, that this is the "wrong" way ;) 15:56 <Daan_>That would be the wise man's way ;-) 15:56 <Erkan_Yilmaz>but as always you will see at the end 15:56 <Erkan_Yilmaz>not always 15:57 <Erkan_Yilmaz>why waste my ressources when others can waste before me :-) 15:57 Seneca : "auch fuer dein nichtstun bist du verantwortlich" 15:57 <Erkan_Yilmaz>Seneca: "also for your not doing something you are respponsible" 15:58 thanks 15:58 <Erkan_Yilmaz>I mean: Athens at that time was under "control" of Pericles 15:58 <Erkan_Yilmaz>and he seems not to want to sought war with Lacedaemonians 15:58 <Erkan_Yilmaz>this could change anytime because of the demos votings 15:58 <Daan_>At the start of the Peloponnesian War, you mean? 15:58 <Erkan_Yilmaz>yes and before 15:59 <Daan_>Another question: why did Sparta and Corinth make peace with Athens and then start a war because of Corcyra and Potidaea? 15:59 <Daan_>War party coming into power? 15:59 <Erkan_Yilmaz>which peace, the one in 446 ? 16:00 <Daan_>Or did Athens break the treaty in Corcyra? 16:00 <Daan_>Yes. 16:00 <Daan_>Sparta was at the gates of Athens, retreated without a fight and made peace. 16:00 <Erkan_Yilmaz>Corinth was the main reason why the probs with Corinth escalated so much 16:00 <Daan_>And suddenly it is the right time for war because of tweo remote places. 16:00 <Phidias>so, i've got to go ... business :( 16:00 <Erkan_Yilmaz>and here again Corinth is the agitator 16:01 <Daan_>Bye Phidias! 16:01 <Phidias>cya :) 16:01 <Erkan_Yilmaz>bye Phidias 16:01 <Erkan_Yilmaz>oh btw Phidias 16:01 <Erkan_Yilmaz>one mom 16:01 <Phidias>hm? :) 16:01 <Erkan_Yilmaz>can we make the chat public ? 16:01 <Daan_>Corinth and Athens ahd a border conflict. 16:01 <Phidias>why not? ^^ 16:01 <Erkan_Yilmaz>cool 16:01 <Daan_>Yes, fine with me. 16:01 <Erkan_Yilmaz>do the others also agree ? 16:01 yes 16:01 <Erkan_Yilmaz>assassingr myrmikonos Ramac savagerose ? private stuff will be deleetd 16:02 Erkan_Yilmaz: I am ok with publishing the log 16:02 As always :) 16:02 <Ramac>ok ok :D 16:02 <Erkan_Yilmaz>thx 16:02 omg 2 hours? 16:02 <Erkan_Yilmaz>no prob we will go on :-) 16:02 <Phidias>yes ... thats why i gotta go ^^ 16:02 :) i vote for yes 16:02 <Erkan_Yilmaz>thx savagerose 16:02 <Phidias>well then 16:02 phidias do u need help at anti-stalin argumentations? 16:03 <Erkan_Yilmaz>So Daan_ 16:03 <Phidias>who is talking of anti-stalin? :D 16:03 <Phidias>no, thanks 16:03 <Erkan_Yilmaz>and here he stays again :-) 16:03 <Daan_>Yes Erkan? 16:03 ok 16:03 <Daan_>Phidias the stalinist. 16:03 <Erkan_Yilmaz>Daan_ I am backreading to your questions 16:03 <Phidias>blood is red ;) 16:04 and let me know if you need stalinist argumentations :P 16:04 <Phidias>hehe 16:04 <Phidias>so then 16:04 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7343618077473282887 the five great battles of antiquity 16:04 <Phidias>bye, folks :) 16:04 ciao, phid 16:04 bye.. 16:04 * Erkan_Yilmaz clicks 16:04 <Erkan_Yilmaz>bye Phidias 16:04 <Daan_>bye 16:04 - Phidias quited ("Java user signed off") 16:05 <Daan_>yoh, Daan is here! 16:05 <Daan_>Wanted to do that for more than an hour. 16:05 <Erkan_Yilmaz>give me a mom 16:07 - assassingr is now known as assassingr|away 16:07 <Erkan_Yilmaz>will have a look at the video later 16:07 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so we were talking about the contradiction: first make peace and then fight again ? 16:07 <Daan_>My computer is too old for video. 16:07 <Daan_>Yes, we were. 16:07 <Daan_>Why is war suddenly necessary 16:08 <Erkan_Yilmaz>somehow that reminds me of switching sides of Perdiccas :-) 16:08 <Daan_>Yes, it is. 16:08 <Daan_>Good logic never fails. 16:08 <Daan_>Was Perdiccas brave? ;-) 16:08 <Erkan_Yilmaz>well I can't tell you for sure, but probably one group of people who were in power favored it, e.g. ephors, merchants 16:08 <Erkan_Yilmaz>or a dishonored mighty person 16:09 <Daan_>That could be. 16:09 <Daan_>I know little about it, since i only read Thucydides. 16:09 <Erkan_Yilmaz>well unfortunately we don't have a time machine to travel back 16:10 <Daan_>Yes, than Phisidas could ge back to the good old Soviet Union of stalin to see his hero and say: i am a stranger coming to visit you. 16:10 <Erkan_Yilmaz>and probably he would be killed for being a spy :-) 16:10 <Daan_>Okay, that joke wasn't funny. 16:11 <Daan_>My joke, it was. 16:11 <Erkan_Yilmaz>.-) 16:11 <Daan_>He certainly would have, spying for France, the UK, Japan, Germanty, the USA and sabotising crops and factories. 16:12 <Daan_>Just some minor acusations. 16:12 <Daan_>Nothing much, nothing untrue. 16:12 <Erkan_Yilmaz>as every state did, does and will do 16:13 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so lets go to Thucydides back ? 16:13 <Daan_>Not like that. 16:13 <Daan_>Okay.

non-topic lines deleted

16:14 <Daan_>Okay i will find another topic. 16:14 <Erkan_Yilmaz>ok 16:14 <Daan_>All my topics have been discussed, i think. 16:14 <Erkan_Yilmaz>oh really ? 16:15 * Erkan_Yilmaz looks also

Mercenaries
16:15 <Daan_>Perhaps there is another juicy detail in the Corinthian speech. 16:15 <Erkan_Yilmaz>ah ? 16:16 <Daan_>What about this one: "The Athenian power consists of mercenaries, and not of their own citizens; but our soldiers are not mercenaries, and therefore cannot so be bought, for we are strong in men if poor in money." 16:16 <Daan_>Jowett translation 121 16:17 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so the allies gave Athens ressources in form of money and Athens hired people from outside 16:17 <Daan_>Yes. 16:17 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so far I have not seen that they bought people from Athenian ships 16:18 <Daan_>I heard in the course on military history that Athens had a Scythian guard of what now is Ukraine. 16:18 <Erkan_Yilmaz>probably if I could buy someone, I would not trust this traitor anymore, because he could be bought again :-) 16:18 <Erkan_Yilmaz>double spy 16:19 <Daan_>Yes, but mercenaries only care about money. They aren't spies. 16:19 <Daan_>To have a mercenary, you need to be rich, that's all. 16:19 <Daan_>Funny part is: many mercenary soldiers conquered the state they fought for. 16:19 <Erkan_Yilmaz>well let me go into an Athenian generals head then 16:19 <Daan_>And became the rulers. 16:20 <Erkan_Yilmaz>about your last comment: so the funny thing is: inviting enemies freely to conquer own territory 16:20 (you enjoy your discussion, i will be away for awhile... i thought you might get worried if you realized the absence of my silence) 16:20 <Erkan_Yilmaz>:-) 16:20 <Daan_>you must have several different mercenary soldiers, who wouldn't cooperate with eachother. 16:20 - savagerose is now known as sava|away 16:20 <Daan_>I think 16:21 <Daan_>And you also need an army of your own. 16:21 <Daan_>Otherwise the mercenaries can overpower you. 16:21 <Erkan_Yilmaz>agree, own army is important other even if different merecneray groups they could join anyway against you 16:22 <Daan_>The good thing about mercenaries is, that you can have the best soldiers for the best task. If you have an army of volunteers, than it probably is a chaotic bunch. 16:22 <Daan_>In Europe, mercenaries dominated warfare from 1300 to 1800. 16:23 <Daan_>The Roman Empire was conquered by Germanic soldiers fighting for Rome at first. 16:23 <Daan_>The Persian method is better: conquering a huge empire, so the soldiers are always from your own empire. 16:24 <Daan_>The problem is that large empires become very peaceful, both Persia and Rome had little soldiers. 16:24 <Daan_>So, they could be conquered by militaristc nations: like the greek of Alexander the Great of Macedon. 16:25 <Daan_>Nowadays that is no issue anymore, kalashnikovs can be used easily and we got atomic bombs. 16:26 <Daan_>Erkan, i think a forum discussion works etter than a chat discussion. 16:26 <Erkan_Yilmaz>well so you are telling me is: 16:26 <Daan_>better. 16:27 <Erkan_Yilmaz>well for this topic I can't tell you much about mercenaries 16:27 <Daan_>We can have both forum and chat, and have chat for a different purpose than the forum. 16:27 <Daan_>Okay. 16:27 <Daan_>I was changing the subject, but we can pursue on mercenaries. 16:28 <Daan_>I know little about it. I am just thinking of some ideas. 16:28 <Daan_>So, your remarks wouldn't be more wrong then mine. 16:28 <Erkan_Yilmaz>:-) 16:28 <Erkan_Yilmaz>well if I bring other people than mine into my land, I would make sure they do not revolt against me 16:28 <Erkan_Yilmaz>but how ? 16:28 <Daan_>The problem of chat is that you can't write and respiond to essays. 16:28 <Erkan_Yilmaz>either have guarantees in form of people from their homes 16:29 <Daan_>Sorry, i go back to mercenaries again. 16:29 <Erkan_Yilmaz>or use them in various places where my own people are dominant 16:29 <Erkan_Yilmaz>or use them at the front of a battle wave :-) 16:29 <Daan_>But, suppose you are losing a war, would you hire so many mercenaries that you can't control them anymore, or lose the war? 16:30 <Erkan_Yilmaz>or even better: get their trust if this is possible 16:30 <Daan_>A devilish dillema 16:30 <Erkan_Yilmaz>well the question is what is more effective ? 16:30 <Daan_>Both is not done. 16:30 <Erkan_Yilmaz>there are ways like: bribing enemy, sending assassinations 16:30 <Erkan_Yilmaz>hello assassingr|away 16:31 <Erkan_Yilmaz>try to make a truce to build up my force 16:31 <Daan_>But if that isn't possible. 16:31 <Daan_>Remember the Corinthian speech: when it is time for action, plans could fail. 16:31 <Daan_>Adn than you have to think of an alternative quickly. 16:31 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so, how long would it take to hire mercenaries ? I mean you must send them the info, make deals, bring them here 16:31 <Erkan_Yilmaz>this takes quite some time ? 16:32 <Daan_>And you need money, the money can be stolen. 16:32 <Daan_>The enemy could secretly bribe your mercenaries. 16:32 <Erkan_Yilmaz>or the messenger/ship could be lost somehow 16:32 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so I guess if someone decides on merecenaries, he would do it long in advance 16:32 <Daan_>Athens probably had long term contracts. 16:32 <Erkan_Yilmaz>to be sure they arrive 16:33 <Daan_>And a confident unique power base, as the sole power in the Aegean Sea. 16:34 <Daan_>Corinth is a bit anarchisitc: fight the larger power, temporarily combine means to be free afterwards. 16:34 <Erkan_Yilmaz>I guess Corinth thought they have a mutual agreement with Athens 16:35 <Erkan_Yilmaz>and when this did not work out they used afterwards all means to fight them 16:36 <Erkan_Yilmaz>hat was the government of Corinth ? also more oligarchic 16:36 <Daan_>It is the fear of losing all if you don't defend little. 16:36 <Daan_>Yes. 16:36 <Daan_>Conservative is a better word. 16:36 <Daan_>anarchists would be local democrats, like Elis. 16:38 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so where are we again ? 16:38 <Daan_>Perhaps you know something to discuss about regarding the text. 16:39 <Erkan_Yilmaz>how about we stop it for today then, we have already about 2,5h and my head at least is dizzy 16:39 <Daan_>Mine as well: alcohol. 16:39 <Erkan_Yilmaz>we could make again some proposals for next week before the next meeting 16:39 <Erkan_Yilmaz>we didn't ask when it would be ok for others next week 16:39 <Daan_>Shall we read the finishing parts for next saturday 14.00u 16:39 <Erkan_Yilmaz>probably same time ? 16:39 <Erkan_Yilmaz>assassingr|away myrmikonos Ramac sava|away 16:39 <Daan_>Yes. 16:40 <Daan_>So, aphorism 125 to end of book I? 16:40 <Erkan_Yilmaz>sounds ok 16:40 <Daan_>I hope the text is better to read. This time it was really thick. 16:40 <Erkan_Yilmaz>ah, we will see, but we had quite some chat here today 16:41 <Daan_>Yes. 16:41 <Erkan_Yilmaz>and also many people joining 16:41 <Daan_>It becomes more every week. And some history students. 16:41 <Erkan_Yilmaz>yeah, that is the begin of a new era :-) 16:41 <Erkan_Yilmaz>ok, I will soon post the chat 16:42 <Daan_>Wikiversity rules the waves! 16:42 <Erkan_Yilmaz>hehe 16:42 <Erkan_Yilmaz>so rest well and I will eat something now 16:43 <Daan_>Okay, goodbye, see you next week 16:43 <Erkan_Yilmaz>definitely and until then in WV :-)

non-topic lines deleted

17:04 it was nice to listen in your discussion.. and i liked the idea very much.. hope to see you again.. take care and enjoy your times :) 17:04 <Erkan_Yilmaz>see you next week ? 17:04 <Erkan_Yilmaz>same time, same place 17:04 sure with pleasure 17:04 i need to find the text and read before joining :) 17:05 <Erkan_Yilmaz>yes that is great, and if you don't read all, we can tell you 17:05 <Erkan_Yilmaz>it is important for us that you are here than that you know all details 17:05 <Erkan_Yilmaz>we are a collective brain 17:05 thats a great idea indeed.. 17:05 <Erkan_Yilmaz>:-) 17:06 i would like to participate in.. so i will find the text from the url in the topic.. 17:06 ? 17:06 <Erkan_Yilmaz>it is here: 17:06 <Erkan_Yilmaz>http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/History_of_the_Peloponnesian_War/Book_1 17:06 thank you..

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
User talk:Krishna405

Welcome
Hello Krishna405, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may
 * Take a guided tour and learn to edit;
 * Explore our learning projects;
 * Browse our portals, schools, and research activities;
 * Read and help develop our community policies；or
 * Chat with other Wikiversitans on #wikiversity-en.

And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold, and see you around Wikiversity! Erkan Yilmaz ( Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog ) 16:42, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:Krishna405


text: User talk:Dudesofdisasterareback

title: User talk:Dudesofdisasterareback


text:
Assistant teacher program/Forum/Relaxation time

Relaxation time
In an all-day school assistant teachers might want to organize a relaxation time during the lunch break. If pupils stay in school after noon simply the continual presence of many (sometimes noisy) people can be stressful.

Assistant teachers can offer activities that allow pupils to relax and, if possible and demand exists, to have a siesta. It should, for instance, be possible to organize some mats or deckchairs and to close some halls or corridors for service for half an hour. The assistant teachers need to organize a group of people who maintain order, admonish visitors to be silent and organize the removal of mats and deckchairs afterwards. Admission to the rooms could be restricted during two successive quarter-hour shifts.


text:
Assistant teacher program/Forum/Comprehensive schools until grade 10

Comprehensive schools or other schools that end with grade ten may need special considerations.

Assistant teachers
In a school with grades five to ten but assistant teacher qualification only in grades eight and nine the pool of available assistant teachers could be very small in comparison to schools with grade twelve and even grade thirteen.

Mentors
Schools that end with grade ten may need other sources for mentors and may have to treat mentors as a very scarce resource.


text:
User talk:Ryap

Welcome
Hello Ryap, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may
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And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold, and see you around Wikiversity! Erkan Yilmaz ( Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog ) 16:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:Ryap


text:
User talk:Samihjamaluddin

Hi, I saw your last edit, perhaps we can help you with it ? Below some info about Wikiversity in general, Erkan Yilmaz ( Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog ) 18:49, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Welcome
Hello Samihjamaluddin, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may
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And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold, and see you around Wikiversity! Erkan Yilmaz ( Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog ) 18:49, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:Samihjamaluddin


text:
User talk:Leen Droogendijk

Welcome
Hello Leen Droogendijk, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may
 * Take a guided tour and learn to edit;
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And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold, and see you around Wikiversity! Erkan Yilmaz ( Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog ) 19:06, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:Leen Droogendijk


text: User:LambaJan~enwikiversity

title: User:LambaJan~enwikiversity


text:
User talk:LambaJan~enwikiversity

Welcome
Hello LambaJan, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may
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And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold, and see you around Wikiversity! Erkan Yilmaz ( Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog ) 19:55, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Thank you...
...for reporting this problem: Help_talk:Quiz-Simple. I could reproduce it also. Erkan Yilmaz ( Wikiversity:Chat, wiki blog ) 17:44, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

 * The bug is now fixed. Thank you for your persistent reporting! --McCormack 13:33, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called LambaJan. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name LambaJan~enwikiversity that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:36, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:14, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:LambaJan~enwikiversity


text:
User:Guillemabril

Guillem Abril Pérez

Hi!

My name is Guillem and I am a Master in Nanotechnology. And right now I am working on a PhD Thesis with Dr. Javier Tejada and his Group (GMAG). I am willing to help anyone to learn Physics.

See you!

title: User:Guillemabril


text:
BCP/Narcissus pseudonarcissus

Narcissus pseudonarcissus

title: BCP/Narcissus pseudonarcissus


text:
United States currency/100¢, 2

Peace Dollar (1921–1928; 1934–1935; 1964)
The Peace Dollar is a silver United States dollar coin minted from 1921 to 1928, then again in 1934 and 1935. Early proposals for the coin called for a commemorative issue to coincide with the end of World War I, but the Peace Dollar was issued as a circulating coin.

Designed by Anthony de Francisci, the Peace Dollar was so named because the word PEACE appears on the bottom of the coin's reverse. It contains 0.77344 troy ounces of silver, and was the successor to the Morgan Dollar, which had not been regularly minted since 1904. With the passage of the Pittman Act in 1918, the mintage of dollar coins was enabled to start again. Prior to the design and acceptance of the Peace Dollar, the Morgan Dollar was minted again in 1921.

After a six-year pause in minting, the Peace Dollar was again minted in 1934 and 1935. It was minted briefly in 1965 (dated 1964), but all examples of this issue were never released to the public and were melted. The Peace Dollar is the last silver dollar minted for circulation in the United States.

Peace Dollar of the United States of America

 * Value: 1.00 U.S. dollars

 * Mass: 26.73 g
 * Diameter: 38.1 mm
 * Thickness: 2.0 mm

 * Edge: reeded
 * Composition: 90.0% Ag, 10.0% Cu

 * Years of Minting: 1921–1928; 1934–1935; 1964

Inspiration
The original inspiration for the Peace Dollar was a paper published in the November 1918 issue of The Numismatist. In it, editor Frank G. Duffield called for a commemorative coin to mark the impending end of World War I. The paper was to be presented at the summer 1918 convention of the American Numismatic Association (ANA), but the convention was cancelled due to the Spanish flu pandemic. Duffield's paper stated that:

"An event of international interest, and one worthy to be commemorated by a United States coin issue, is scheduled to take place in the near future.

The date has not yet been determined, but it will be when the twentieth century vandals have been beaten to their knees and been compelled to accept the terms of the Allies...

It should be issued in such quantities that it will never become rare, and it should circulate at face value."

The theme for the proposed coin was elaborated upon at the Chicago ANA convention of August 1920. A paper written by Farran Zerbe called for a coin that would showcase the ideals of democracy, liberty, prosperity, and honor. The proposal called for either a half dollar or dollar, in order to provide as much space as possible for the design.

Return of the Silver Dollar
The biggest hurdle faced by proponents of the new coin was that no dollar coin had been minted for circulation in the United States since 1904, the last year of the Morgan Dollar. The demand for silver dollars was so low that vast quantities of Morgans were still sitting in bank vaults. That hurdle was overcome with the passage of the Pittman Act on April 23, 1918. Sponsored by Nevada Senator Key Pittman, the Pittman Act allowed the US government to melt as many as 350 million silver dollars, and then either sell the bullion or use it to produce subsidiary silver coinage. Additionally, the law required the government to mint replacement dollars for any that were melted, with domestically purchased silver.

Since the Act required the minting of new silver dollars, and since no new designs had been accepted, on May 9, 1921, the US Mint resumed production of the Morgan Dollar. More than 86 million Morgans were struck during that year, by far the single highest mintage in the coin's history. The same day that mintage of the Morgan resumed, legislation was introduced in the US Congress that called for the issuance a new silver dollar to commemorate the post-World War I peace. The measure did not come to a vote, but one was not needed. Since the Morgan had been in production (during its original run) for more than 25 years, alteration of the design no longer required legislative approval.

The job of designing the new coin would normally have fallen to George T. Morgan, the mint's chief engraver and designer of the Morgan Dollar. But in compliance with an executive order by President Warren G. Harding, an open design competition for the new dollar was held by the Commission of Fine Arts. Nine artists paticipated, including Adolph A. Weinman, Hermon A. MacNeil, and Victor D. Brenner, designers of the Mercury Dime, Standing Liberty Quarter, and Lincoln cent, respectively. The winner of the competition was an Italian immigrant and sculptor, Anthony de Francisci, whose most recent work had been the design of the Maine Centennial half dollar in 1920.

Production of the Peace Dollar commenced on December 21, 1921, and it was placed into circulation on January 3, 1922. That same day, President Harding was presented with the first Peace Dollar. Roughly one million examples were struck before it was realized that the relief on the coin was so high that it was difficult to strike, and the dies used were breaking at a high rate. The relief was lowered starting with the 1922 issue. That year more than 84 million Peace Dollars were struck, the highest mintage of the series.

End of Production
By 1928, the US Mint had struck enough silver dollars (Morgan and Peace combined) to satisfy the requirements of the Pittman Act. Since public demand for silver dollars did not materialize, the mint halted production of the Peace Dollar that year (with fewer than two million struck). The Peace Dollar returned briefly in 1934 and 1935, as the government needed additional backing for Silver Certificates.

The coin almost made a return in 1964, when Congress approved the mintage of 45 million new silver dollars to fulfill the needs of the booming casino industry in Nevada. The decision was controversial due to a critical silver shortage in 1965, which led to widespread hoarding of silver coinage. In response to the shortage, Congress passed the Coinage Act of 1965, which authorized the removal of silver content from circulating coinage (except for the Kennedy half dollar) minted after December 31, 1964. But under pressure from some members of Congress from the Western states, President Lyndon B. Johnson issued an order on May 15, 1965 to resume production of the Peace Dollar (dated 1964 to allow silver to be included). 316,076 Peace Dollars were struck at the Denver mint that month, before Congress overrode the Presidential order and demanded that production cease. All the coins produced to that point were ordered to be melted. Although rumors persist that some examples still survive, owning them is illegal, making it unlikely that anyone who does own one will ever come forth publicly.

Production of dollar coinage did not resume until the Eisenhower Dollar in 1971. That coin, however, has no silver content, except for some sold directly to collectors by the Mint. Likewise, the Susan B. Anthony, Sacagawea dollars, and Presidential dollars that have been minted since the Eisenhower dollar contain no silver, making the Peace Dollar the last true silver dollar.

Design
Anthony de Francisci's design featured his rendition of Lady Liberty on the obverse. His wife, Teresa, was the model for the sculpture.[4] The font used is an example of the then-popular Art Deco style. This is exemplified by the inscription, "IN GOD WE TRVST," which uses the Latin alphabet.

The original design for the coin's reverse featured a Bald Eagle holding (or standing on) a broken sword, symbolizing peace. This design was interpreted as one of defeat, rather than peace, so Chief Engraver Morgan altered the design to replace the sword with an olive branch (itself a symbol of peace). The eagle is perched on a rock, facing a group of the sun's rays.

The design of the Peace Dollar drew considerable criticism upon its release. A few of the elements of de Francisci's design that drew negative commentary were the open-mouthed Lady Liberty and the Latinized spelling of "trust." The negative response was sufficient enough that the US Mint issued a statement on February 9, 1922, stating that the coin would not be withdrawn. In recent years, however, coin collectors have come to view the Peace Dollar as an attractive and desirable coin.

Mints
Mintmarks appear underneath the word 'One' on the reverse, and include:

 * no mark (Philadelphia Mint in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)
 * D (Denver Mint in Denver, Colorado)
 * S (San Francisco Mint in San Francisco, California)

Collectibility
The numismatic value of Peace Dollars (as opposed to intrinsic value) is determined by a number of factors. Examples of Peace Dollars minted as proof coins (not intended for general circulation) are rare, and extremely valuable. For circulated Peace Dollars, two types that command higher market prices are varieties (coins that have design elements that differ from usual examples) and rarities (coins that are available in fewer quantities than others in the series).

Proofs
A limited number of proof Peace Dollars were minted in 1921 and 1922. These coins feature a high relief (design elements that protrude from the background higher than usual) and are extremely rare. They are worth up to $50,000, according to the 2006 Red Book.

Special Varieties
Due to subtle differences between the dies used to mint Peace Dollars, there are a few different varieties available for collectors. Some notable examples include:

 * 1926-S: The "S" mintmark may be higher or lower than normal.
 * 1934-D: The "D" mintmark may be small or large, depending on the coin.
 * 1935-S: Due to a new reverse die at the San Francisco mint, some examples have an extra ray below the "ONE."

Rarities
Certain examples of Peace Dollars are considered rarities, for a variety of reasons–lower mintage numbers, a relative shortage of remaining examples, or a relative shortage of examples in a certain grade. The higher the grade, the fewer examples are likely to exist. Rarities usually command a higher price from collectors than more commonly available examples.

Due to lower mintage figures, 1921, 1928-P, and 1934-S Peace Dollars graded as Extra Fine (EF or XF, roughly the midpoint of the grading scale) are considered rare. The 1925-S and 1928-S issues have higher mintage figures but are worth approximately $20,000 in the grade of MS-65 (near the top of the scale, MS-70), considerably higher than all other Peace Dollars of the same grade. This is because very few examples of these two coins exist in this condition.

Release of Dollars By the US Treasury; The GSA Sale
Because of the size and weight of the dollar coins, they circulated minimally throughout their history, except in the West (especially at casinos in the early to mid 20th century, where they were commonly used both at the tables and at slot machines.) As a result, the coins were generally shipped to Washington and stored in the vaults of the US Treasury; at times these stores numbered into the hundreds of millions.

They were very popular as Christmas gifts, however, and from the 1930s to the early 1960s, many bags were annually released to banks nationwide to be distributed as presents. In November 1962, during this annual distribution, it was discovered that there were some rare and valuable dates, still sealed in their original mint bags, all in uncirculated condition, among the millions of dollar coins still in the Treasury vaults. Collectors/investors/dealers lined up to purchase them in $1,000 bags, trading silver certificates for the coins. Before this event, the great rarity of the Morgan series was 1903-O, which was by far the most expensive of the entire set. It was discovered that there were millions of this specific date and mint in the Treasury vaults; an estimated 84% of the entire mintage sat in these bags, untouched for 60 years, all in uncirculated condition. While still relatively expensive in circulated grades, uncirculated examples can be had for a modest amount over common dates.

On March 25, 1964, the Secretary of the Treasury announced that Silver Certificates would no longer be redeemable for silver dollars. Subsequently, another act of Congress dated June 24, 1967, provided that Silver Certificates could be exchanged for silver bullion for a period of one year, until June 24,1968.

Following this, the Treasury began to inventory its remaining stock of dollar coins, and found it had about 3,000 bags (3 million coins) still left, many of them Carson City mint dollars, which even then carried a premium. The coins were placed in special hard plastic holders and the General Services Administration (GSA) was given authorization to sell them to the public in a series of mail-bid sales. Five sales were conducted in 1973 and 1974, but sales were poor, and the results unspectacular. There was much complaining among the coin buying public, many stating that the United States Government should not be in the "coin business", especially considering that the government had spent little more than a dollar to mint and store each coin. After these sales, more than a million coins were still left unsold.

These sat again until 1979-1980, where, amidst an extraordinarily volatile precious metals market, the remaining coins were sold under chaotic conditions. The GSA, having published minimum bids in November of 1979, announced on January 2, 1980, that those minimum bids were no longer valid, and that prospective bidders would have to "call in" to a toll free number to get current minimum bids. Then, on February 21, 13 days after the bidding process officially began, the maximum number of coins per bidder was changed from 500 to 35. Many bidders, under these confusing conditions, ended up with no coins at all. Complaints again flooded in to Congress, but the damage had already been done, and the last silver dollars held by the United States Treasury were gone.

Over the years, many of these GSA dollars have been broken out of their special holders for purposes of grading or otherwise, and now original, unbroken GSA dollars carry a small premium. Some third party grading companies have begun to grade coins still in their GSA holders, as a means of preservation, though this is not without controversy.

Eisenhower Dollar (1971–1978)
The Eisenhower Dollar is a dollar coin issued by the United States government from 1971–1978 (not to be confused with the Eisenhower commemorative dollar of 1990). The Eisenhower Dollar followed the Peace Dollar and is named for General and President Dwight David Eisenhower, who appears on the obverse. Both the obverse and the reverse of the coin were designed by Frank Gasparro.

Eisenhower Dollar of the United States of America

 * Value: 1.00 U.S. dollars

 * Mass: 22.68 g
 * Diameter: 38.1 mm
 * Thickness: 2.58 mm

 * Edge: reeded
 * Composition: Outer Layers: 75.0% Cu, 25.0% Ni; Core: 100% Cu

 * Years of Minting: 1971–1978

Obverse
 * Design: General/President Dwight D. Eisenhower
 * Designer: Frank Gasparro
 * Design Date: 1971

Reverse
 * Design: The Apollo 11 Mission Insignia
 * Designer: Frank Gasparro
 * Design Date: 1971

Specifications

 * Obverse design: General/President Dwight D. Eisenhower
 * Reverse design: The Apollo 11 Mission Insignia
 * Bicentennial reverse designer: Denis Williams
 * Bicentennial reverse design: The Liberty Bell and the Moon
 * Edge: reeded
 * Diameter: 38.1 mm

Composition
The Eisenhower Dollar was struck with a copper-nickel composition for circulation and was the first United States dollar coin to not be struck in a precious metal, although special collectors' issues were struck at the San Francisco Mint in a silver-copper composition.

Copper-nickel issues:

 * Weight: 22.68 grams
 * Composition: Outer Layers of 75% copper, 25% nickel with a center layer of 100% copper

Silver-copper issues (silver clad):

 * Weight: 24.59 grams
 * Composition: Outer layers of 80% silver with a center of 20.9% silver. Aggregate 60% copper, 40% silver
 * Silver content: 0.3164 troy ounce (9.841 grams)

History
The Eisenhower Dollar was struck to celebrate Dwight D. Eisenhower, who died in 1969, and the Apollo 11 moon landing of the same year. It was minted for only a seven year period. The coins were often saved as mementos of Eisenhower and never saw much circulation outside of casinos. Special Bicentennial issues were minted in 1975 and 1976.

Mints
Mintmarks appear above the third and fourth numbers in the date under Eisenhower's neck. Mintmarks include:

 * None (Philadelphia Mint in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)
 * D (Denver Mint in Denver, Colorado)
 * S (San Francisco Mint in San Francisco, California)

Mintage Figures

 * 1971 P - 47,799,000
 * 1971 D - 68,587,424
 * 1972 P - 75,890,000
 * 1972 D - 92,548,511
 * 1973 P - 1,769,258
 * 1973 D - 1,769,258
 * 1974 P - 27,366,000
 * 1974 D - 45,517,000

(no dollars dated 1975 - see next section)

 * 1976 P - 117,337,000 (bicentennial)
 * 1976 D - 103,228,274 (bicentennial)
 * 1977 P - 12,596,000
 * 1977 D - 32,983,006
 * 1978 P - 25,702,000
 * 1978 D - 33,012,890

Bicentennial Dollar
Special reverses were added to all quarter dollar, half dollar, and dollar coins minted in 1975 and 1976 to celebrate the bicentennial of America's independence. In addition, the date was shown as 1776-1976 for the quarters, half dollars, and dollars minted in 1975 and 1976. There are no 1975 dated quarters, halves, or dollars. The reverse of the Eisenhower Dollar was designed by Dennis Williams and shows the Liberty Bell in front of the moon.

Special Issues
Some Eisenhower Dollars were minted in a 40% silver clad to be sold to collectors. All of these coins were minted at the San Francisco Mint, with dates 1971, 1972, 1973, 1974, and 1976. These coins were either uncirculated or proof. Uncirculated coins came in cellophane with a blue plastic token in a blue envelope. Proof issues came in a proof set-like plastic case, contained in a brown "wood grain finish" slipcase box with a gold seal on the back. The uncirculated coins are referred to as 'Blue Ikes' and the proofs as 'Brown Ikes'. Coins minted in 1975 and 1976 for the Bicentennial come with the quarter and the half dollar of that year. The uncirculated coins were sold by the Mint for three dollars; the proof versions for ten dollars. Two varieties of the Bicentennial dollar were produced in 1975 and can be distinguished by the thickness of the lettering on the reverse. The Type I has thicker lettering, shown in the picture above, while the Type II has more delicate lettering. The Type II version is more common.

Missing Ikes?
Eisenhower Dollars did not appear in the 1971 and 1972 mint and proof sets. The only Ikes available to collectors from the Mint with these dates were the silver clad uncirculated and proof issues. Copper-nickel clad issues had to be obtained directly from circulation.

On the other hand, 1973 copper-nickel clad Ikes were ONLY available in the uncirculated and proof sets of that year; none were released for general circulation.

All following dates of this series in copper-nickel were available both in uncirculated and proof sets from the Mint.

Anthony Dollar (1979–1981;1999)
The Susan B. Anthony dollar is a United States coin minted between 1979 and 1981, and again in 1999. It depicts women's suffrage campaigner Susan B. Anthony. The reverse depicts an eagle flying above the moon (with the Earth in the background), a design adapted from the Apollo 11 mission insignia that was also present on the previously issued Eisenhower dollar.

Anthony Dollar of the United States of America

 * Value: 1.00 U.S. dollars

 * Mass: 8.1 g
 * Diameter: 26.5 mm
 * Thickness: 2.0 mm

 * Edge: reeded
 * Composition: 91.66% Cu, 8.33% Ni

 * Years of Minting: 1979–1981; 1999

Obverse
 * Design: Susan B. Anthony
 * Designer: Frank Gasparro
 * Design Date: 1979

Reverse
 * Design: Eagle over surface of Moon
 * Designer: Frank Gasparro
 * Design Date: 1979

Overview
Though it is round, the Susan B. Anthony dollar may appear 11-sided, due to an 11-sided rim bordering the edge of both sides. The original design called for the coin itself to be an 11-sided hendecagon, but vending machine manufacturers protested this plan, claiming that available vending machine technology could only accommodate round coins without extensive (and expensive) retooling.

Because of their similar size and color, it was found to be very easy to mistake the coin for a quarter. The originally-planned hendecagon-shaped edge, which would have distinguished it from the quarter, had been replaced with a depiction of an hendecagon and the same reeded edge as the quarter, thus compounding the confusion. It was unpopular and was disparagingly referred to as the "Carter quarter" or the "Anthony quarter." 888,842,452 Anthony dollars were produced for circulation (Additional dollars were produced as numismatic items).

The coin was released July 2, 1979. A $1 postage stamp, Scott #1612, was released nationwide on the same day, allowing philatelic/numismatic first day souvenirs to be produced.

While a large quantity were produced in 1979, they failed to circulate well (despite the slogan "Carry three for Susan B.") and a minimal number were produced in 1980. In 1981, none were produced for circulation, but instead were produced for numismatic sets marketed by the Mint. Many of those have been broken, and it is not unusual to find 1981-dated Anthony dollars in circulation.

At the end of production, the Treasury was left with hundreds of millions of the coins in its vaults.

In the 1980s and into the 1990s, vending machines (especially transit and postal machines) began to take higher denomination notes, when previously they had been effectively limited to dollar notes. While change could be given in quarters and smaller coins, more and more such machines began to give change in dollar coins. This led to an increased call on the Treasury's supply. By 1998, the Treasury's stock of dollar coins was near exhaustion. The Mint lacked the legal authority to change the design of the coin, and it was not deemed possible to release the new Sacagawea dollar earlier than 2000. Accordingly, after the longest hiatus for the same design of a circulating coin in U.S. history (one year longer than for the Morgan silver dollar), the coin was restruck in 1999.

Since the Sacagawea dollar's 2000 introduction, the Susan B. Anthony dollar circulated along with it--the two coins have identical metallic signatures to vending machines. The Presidential $1 Coin Act of 2005, which initially proposed taking all remaining Susan B. Anthony dollars out of circulation, merely directed the Secretary of Treasury to take a deeper look into the matter and report back to Congress sometime in 2006.

Collecting the Anthony Dollar
The Anthony dollar is notable for numismatists because (as of 2007) it was the last coin produced for circulation with the "S" mintmark of the San Francisco Mint.

The Susan B. Anthony dollar is relatively simple to collect. It is a short series with large mintages. Referred to affectionately by collectors as the "Susie B," the basic circulated set includes just 11 coins. The basic proof set includes 6 coins. There are several important varieties that can also be collected. In the circulated set, the 1979 P "Near Date" also commonly known as the "Wide Rim" is rather scarce. In the proof set, the main varieties are the 1979 Type I and Type II mintmarks and the 1981 Type I and Type II mintmarks.

A growing segment of Anthony dollar collectors are looking for coins with Full Talons. Like Full Bell Lines on the Franklin half dollar, Full Head on the Standing Liberty Quarter, and Full Split Bands on the Mercury and Roosevelt Dime, FT coins are recognized as having a superior strike. While the FT designation is not yet recognized by any major Third Party Grading companies, it is increasingly popular. The designation refers to the talons on the feet of the eagle on the reverse. Often, either due to poor strike or clogged dies, the eagle has "blob feet," without distinguishable toes. To qualify for FT, the talons must be fully separated and rounded, without any marks or weakness. The ultimate FT also shows the folds of skin on the toes. FT is not a function of die state, as FT coins are known on late state dies as well as early state dies.

Mintage Figures

 * 1979 P - 360,222,000
 * 1979 D - 288,015,744
 * 1979 S - 109,576,000
 * 1980 P - 27,610,000
 * 1980 D - 41,628,708
 * 1980 S - 20,422,000
 * 1981 P - 3,000,000
 * 1981 D - 3,250,000
 * 1981 S - 3,492,000
 * 1999 P - 35,892,000
 * 1999 D - 11,776,000

Depictions in the Popular Media

 * The TV series based on the Robocop movie, which was set in the near future, featured a $1 coin called the "Ronnie." It was nearly identical to the Susan B. Anthony dollar, except that its obverse depicted Ronald Reagan.
 * In a retrospective episode of The Simpsons, Comic Book Guy holds up a copy of Susan B. Anthony Man comics. The heroic character depicted on the cover is carrying a shield which looks like a Susan B. Anthony dollar.
 * On another episode of The Simpsons, Mr. Lisa Goes to Washington, Lisa proposes that the family attend the memorial to the fictional Winifred Beecher Howe, an "early crusader for women's rights" who was the leader of the 1910 Floor Mop Rebellion. "Later," Lisa notes, "she appeared on the highly unpopular 75-cent piece."
 * In the animated series The Powerpuff Girls, a feminist villain who robs banks demands that the money she steals is in Susan B. Anthony dollar coins.
 * On the NBC reality series Treasure Hunters, a Susan B. Anthony dollar was a clue in the penultimate leg of the Hunt.
 * Uncle John's Bathroom Reader features an article titled "It Seemed Like a Good Idea at the Time", which is dedicated to telling the story of the Susan B. Anthony dollar.
 * The song Sunken Waltz by musical group Calexico features the lyric "Tossed a Susan B. over my shoulder in hopes that it would rain and rain".
 * In episode 4 of Sam & Max Season One, the episodic computer game by Telltale Games, Sam refers to Susan B. Anthony dollars when he and Max encounter a pay phone at the White House.
 * In the X-Files episode "The Unusual Suspects," the character of Frohike dismisses Suzanne Modeski's story of a government cover up by saying that it's "the same government that gave us Amtrak." Langly agrees, chiming in with "Not to mention the Susan B Anthony Dollar."

Page 3 100¢, 3

title: United States currency/100¢, 2