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Talk:Electric Circuit Analysis/Passive Sign Convention

Fixed the article
Blank boxes are elements, not resistors. I changed all references from resistor to element as it was appropriate.

The 3rd example was wrong. The (-) terminal has a higher potential and the current is emanating from it, making it a source.

Figure 1.4 is confusing. Why would you use arrows for voltage? Get rid of the the subscripts for V and I and get rid of the blue notation. Passive sign convention means positive voltage drops from + to - and positive current enters the + terminal. From that, you calculate P = I*V. If it comes out positive it's a resistor. If it comes out negative it's a source. That's it. You can flip the signs and flip the arrows all you want, but if you put it so that current enters the + terminal and calculate power, you'll get the right solution and correctly determine if it is a source or a resistor (and resistors aren't sources).

I hope none of my students found this page before today. (Jacob 12 Feb 2013)

This article has multiple issues
Precise definitions are needed, otherwise readers construe things differently than intended by the author. I have started by improving the definitions of circuit elements (not "components") and active and passive circuit elements. I'll continues in days ahead as I have time, which will be slowly. These improvements will address many of the issues discussed below. (doug iowa 7 Oct 2012)

A discussion on Passive sign convention
WHO CAN HELP ME IN USING PASSIVE SIGN CONVENTION.
 * Hi, What dont you understand about this part?--Thuvack | talk 10:46, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm finding example 1.3 to be very confusing and possibly erroneous, because of the following: "Point A is More Positive Compared to point B.", which is shortly followed by "The Current is shown entering Point A but by the fact that current is -3A it means that the current is infact leaving at point A.", which would mean that the current is going from a lower potential at point B to a higher potential at point A, which, quoting the explanation of part 3, "The resistor has effectively powered the electric charge to a high potential point. Hence, the resistor, a passive component, supplies power in this case." Unfortunately, example 1.3 says that the resistor dissipates power. Additionally, if you look at example 1.2, VR = − 6Volts, IR = 3A, and the power is negative. Then, in example 1.3, VR = − 6Volts, IR = - 3A, so the only difference is that the current has a negative sign added. So, adding the negative sign would take the negative power from example 1.2 and make it positive. However, the signs on the resistor are reversed as well, which would throw in yet another negative sign, ultimately resulting in a negative power. Or, an easier way to compare it to example 1.2: since current is negative, flip the current arrow and call the current positive. Now example 1.3 is the exact same problem as example 1.2.

definition of passive component
Currently this page says "All components that Absorb or Dissipate electric power are called Passive components." Both vacuum tubes and transistors "absorb or dissipate power", so this definition seems to imply that vacuum tubes and transistors are passive components. Rechargeable batteries absorb power when they are recharging, right? Is a rechargeable battery a passive component?

This seems to contradict the active filter article, which claims that "An active filter is a type of analog electronic filter, distinguished by the use of one or more active components i.e. voltage amplifiers or buffer amplifiers. Typically this will be a vacuum tube, or solid-state (transistor or operational amplifier)." That definition seems to imply vacuum tubes and transistors are active components.

What should we do to avoid confusing new learners? (I think trying to describe all the different definitions of "passive", as in the passive component article, would leave new learners even more confused than before). --DavidCary 16:10, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Capitalisation of words within sentences
Is there any special reason for capitalisation of words within a sentence in this article?

Example:

 * If Voltage is Given as -6V it means that despite the given sign convention of the resistor, Point A is More Positive Compared to point B.

Shouldn't it be the following (wrt. capitalisation)?

 * If voltage is given as -6V it means that despite the given sign convention of the resistor, point A is more positive compared to point B.

--Mortense 19:50, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Redundant cases
These two cases are the same so either they are redundant or there is an error in sign. "Thus for -V ; +I and -V ; +I cases the electrical charge will gain electric potential".

A resistor can never supply power
A resistor can never supply power. Current in a resistor must necessarily flow from its positive terminal to its negative terminal - "positive terminal" meaning the terminal at higher potential.

The Examples 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3 seem to be misleading.

--Amrita green (talk) 12:16, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

This page has many issues. I'm going to start picking at them as I have time. If you doubt the accuracy of my edits, please be careful. There is a lot of bogosity out there on the web and even in college-level textbooks on this topic. The essence of what I want to do is to add necessary precision to the language of this article, otherwise all kinds of miss-interpretations (which the original authors probably did not intend) can be made by students trying to learn this material.

Overly complicated
This article on passive sign convention is overly complicated. You better to get a book on electrical engineering and consult its content o better pick order in which you tech such stuff. Like, I wouldn't jump to this convention until circuit analysis concept like Kirchhoff's law are introduced. 193.188.200.0 (discuss) 16:56, 8 July 2022 (UTC)


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Talk:Cheap acquiring of ships

This looks neat. Emesee 06:50, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Cheap acquiring of ships


text: File:Flag grid x.PNG

title: File:Flag grid x.PNG


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City dumpster content recycling

This article decribes the reuse of still usable foodstuffs found in city dumpsters to create highly nutritional compost (trough vermicomposting or other methods of composting (regular, mushroom composting, ...).

Set-up
At the moment, homeless people without jobs are already scavenging the cities' dumpsters in search for things they may use. With my proposal, they may do this for a living by sorting out the elements which are usable for vermicomposting and/or composting (mostly plant parts and vegetables, some animal meat or fish, ...) and return it to large or small scale -composting companies/facilities. The packaging itself may be left by these city dwellers at the dumpsters.

Advantages
This type of employment would not only give the slum dwellers better lives, but would also elevate the cities' security in decaying city blocks, the city's appearance, the financial situation in the city, ... For the composting companies, this recycling of nutrients would be very cost-efficient for them as In addition, in respect to care for the environment, this project would also be very intresting. Finally as a last advantage, for the city itself (which needs to provide communal services as waste recycling, ...) this project would also be very intresting financially (as allot of waste disappears inmediatelly).
 * they get nutrients to compost for free
 * the city dwellers can be payed at low fees

Cooperation
Greenpeace, Slum Dwellers International, the Salvation Army, and other organisation may help in settinh up the project and composting companies can also assist by telling them about this idea and asking whether they are intrested in participating.

title: City dumpster content recycling


text: Electrical Power Economics/Introduction

title: Electrical Power Economics/Introduction


text: Category:Recycling

title: Category:Recycling


text: Category:Self-sufficiency

title: Category:Self-sufficiency


text: Category:Yoga

title: Category:Yoga


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Yoga

Wikipedia: "Yoga refers to traditional physical and mental disciplines originating in India. The word is associated with meditative practices in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. Major branches of yoga in Hindu philosophy include Raja Yoga (Patanjali, meditation and positive thinking), Karma Yoga (do good), Jnana Yoga (think about yourself), Bhakti Yoga (pray to God, the Guru or to your inner self), and Hatha Yoga (body exercises and meditation)."

Before you opt for a particular style of yoga, you should consider what you're looking for. Do you want strenuous exercises (stretching, muscle building, bodystiling) or relaxation (stress reduction, health, peace)? you will find a athletic techniques with Power Yoga, Ashtanga Yoga, Iyengar Yoga and Kundalini Yoga. You can find relaxing techniques with Hatha Yoga and Vini Yoga.

Try out what is good for you. Ultimately, every yoga teacher has a personal style. Every yoga teacher has weaknesses and strengths. Learn from any yoga teacher. Find your own way to practice yoga. Use what works for you and accept in any yoga class the things that are not effective for you. Above all, always stay on your path of truth and accuracy. Don´t give up on the door to spirituality.

Ideal is a practice time of fifteen minutes. If you do yoga every day at a certain time for four weeks, your mind gets accustomed to your daily practice. Then Yoga becomes a simple way to preserve your health and your inner happiness. Yoga offers a variety of techniques for the body and the mind. We should practice each yoga exercise so that it works well for us. What hurts us, we omit. What is good for us, we do. We can vary all yoga exercises creatively. We always ask ourselves: "What do I need now and what's good for me? What works best to release my tensions?"

Find your individual rhythm and your individual priorities. Do the breaks at the right moment and in the right track. If you do not want to spend much time with yoga, just do a little practice at the end of the (work) day. Yoga is an ongoing experiment. The way of the effective tension solution is not easy to find. We need to practice yoga with wisdom and inner feeling. A formal practice is not enough. We should first sense our inner tensions and then find the most effective techniques to resolve them. Over the years, you will dissolve one layer of tension after another until the light awakens in you and lasting happiness appears. On the way to self-realization, you will need many different yoga practices. There are specific techniques for each stage of our development.

An important part of daily yoga practice is our motivation. We reflect on the benefits of a daily health and relaxation program. We design our daily yoga practice so that it brings us pleasure. An important aid is beautiful music. If we do the yoga exercises with beautiful music, they seem much easier. Our daily yoga practice has to be designed so that it meets our personal needs and we feel that it is effective and good for us. We can vary our yoga practice. We always do yoga in cooperation with two forces: endurance and joy. These two forces enable us to keep up our yoga path for a lifetime and to continue to grow until we live in the light.

Yogi and Yogini
You are a yogi or a yogini, if you practice Yoga for health, beauty, strength, relaxation or healing. You are a yogi, if you practice Yoga for inner peace, happiness and enlightenment. You are a yogi, if you are enlightened. Enlightenment means to live in God, in the light, in cosmic consciousness.

Modern Yoga teaches the unity of all religions. You can be a yogi and a Hindu, a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist or an atheist. The most important Christian yogis were the Desert Fathers and Mothers. Their enlightened master was the Holy Antonius. Many Buddhists live as yogis alone or in a cloister. Overall, most yogis are Hindu. More and more yogis also live in the west.

The three great books of Yoga are the Yoga-Sutra from Patanjali, the Hatha-Yoga-Pradipika from Goraksha and the Bhagawad Gita from Krishna. The basic yoga techniques are positive thinking (Patanjali), meditation (Patanjali), body work (Goraksha), praying (Krishna) and loving all beings (Krishna). To get an initiation from an enlightened master can be very helpful. He or she opens the doors to your enlightenment energy (kundalini energy). Nevertheless, you have to practice Yoga and reach self realization on your own. Enlightenment will happen, when the time is right for you. Important modern Yoga masters are Swami Sivananda, Anandamayi Ma, Sai Baba, Amritanandamayi (Amma) and Mother Meera. They teach the basic paths of truth, peace, love, self discipline and happiness.

Hatha Yoga

Wikipedia: "Hatha Yoga is a system of Yoga introduced by Yogi Swatmarama, a sage of 15th century India, and compiler of the Hatha Yoga Pradipika. In this treatise Swatmarama introduces Hatha Yoga as a way of physical purification that the body practices for higher meditation. The word Hatha is a compound of the words Ha and Tha meaning sun and moon. A Yogi has to join together sun (masculine, active) energy with the moon (feminine, receptive) energy, thus producing balance and enlightenment in an individual."

Hatha Yoga is a strong practice done for healing and purification. Hatha Yoga is what most people in the Western world associate with the word "Yoga" and is most commonly practiced for mental and physical health. The most comprehensive text of Hatha Yoga is the Hatha Yoga Pradipika by Yogi Swatmarama. It includes information about shatkarma (purification), asana (postures), pranayama (subtle breath energy), chakras (centers of energy), kundalini (enlightenment energy), bandhas (energy control), kriyas (purification techniques), nadis (energy channels), and mudras (energy gestures).

Yoga for Beginners
Get the benefits of yoga. Learn yoga from a video with beautiful music. Relax in a few minutes with an easy yoga series. Do it as it is good for you. If you cannot do something, don't do it. The first ten minutes we learn some basic yoga exercises and the last minutes we meditate with some mantras and the muscle relaxation.

1. We lie down on our back and relax.

2. We raise the outstreched right leg and hold it in the air. Then we raise the left leg in the air and hold it.

3. We raise both legs and the head in the air. We hold it as long as possible and breath relaxed in our belly.

4. We go into the candle, raise the butt and the legs to the sky. The hands strengthen our back. We move our feet and relax a minute in the candle.

5. We lie down again and rotate the spine. We turn the pelvis to the right and the head to the left. And the other way round. We twist the spine as far as possible.

6. We turn in the prone position and raise the right outstreched leg. We hold it and breath relaxed in our belly. Then we raise the left leg and hold it in the air.

7. We put our head backwards and bring our feet as far as possible to the head. The legs are in the air and the hands lie beside the body on the ground. They support the position. We hold the Cobra, breath relaxed into the belly and move the feet.

8. We lie the head on our hands, move our feet and relax.

9. We sit cross-legged or in the heel seat. The back is straight and the belly relaxed.

10. We lie down and make the muscle relaxation. We tense the muscles of the legs and feet. We relax. We tense the muscles of the arms and hands. We relax. We tense the muscles of the head and the face. We relax. We tense the muscles of the whole body. We relax. We move the feet. We relax completely for some minutes. We go peaceful and happy our way.

Yoga with Positive Thinking
Yoga with positive thinking is very helpful for many people. It allows one to quickly overcome negative tendencies and reach a happy and healthy life. Positive thinking and daily meditation are the two basic techniques of enlightenment.

1. Go = Jog on the spot, with your arms moving by your side. Visualize light, turn around and think, "I go the positive way."

2. Windmill = Straddle your legs apart, bow forward, turn like a windmill into the spinal column and think: "My goals are ...".

3. Frog = Bring your feet together. Bow your upper body forward. Push yourself up with your hands on the floor and move your buttocks down in a crouch and back up in the air. The head goes up to the sky and down to the earth. Practice the frog several times and think: "I have strength and endurance."

4. Arm-leg raising = Lie down on your stomach. Raise your left arm and right leg. Bring both back to the earth and lift the right arm and the left leg. Do this several times. Think, "I take things the way they are."

5. Upper body raising = Lie in the prone position, with your hands on the floor and repeatedly press the upper body up and down. The head goes to the neck and forward. While breathing in and out, think, "I let go of my false desires."

6. Pelvic rotation = In the prone position, turn your pelvis to the right and then to the left. Your head must lie on your hands. Think, "I am sad because ...".

7. Feet = Get your feet moving in the prone position. The head lies relaxed on your hands. Think, "I forgive... (my partner / parents / the cosmos / God), that he/she... I forgive me, that I ...". Whom do you want to forgive today? Think these words until a feeling of sadness arises in you, of letting go and forgiveness.

8. Cycling = Turn on your back, lift your head and move your arms and legs. Think, "My positive thought today is....".

9. Candle = Stretch your legs to the sky. Your hands support you at the back. Visualize the sky, move your feet and think many times the mantra "Heaven", until you feel the light coming down in your body.

10. Meditation = Roll from the candle into your meditation seat (cross-legged or heel seat). Put your hands in your lap. The back is straight and the stomach is relaxed. Move one hand and wrap them and think, "I send light to ... May all people be happy. May the world be happy." Stop all your thoughts for a minute. Relax. What is good in your life?

Karma-Yoga
Wikipedia: "Karma Yoga or the "discipline of action" is based on the teachings of the Bhagavad Gita, a sacred Sanskrit scripture of Hinduism. Karma Yoga is an intrinsic part of many types of yoga. The word Karma is derived from the Sanskrit Kri, meaning 'to do'. Karma Yoga is the path of union (cosmic consciousness) through action. Karma Yoga is described as a way of acting, thinking and willing by which one orients oneself toward realization by acting in accordance with one's duty (dharma) without consideration of personal self-centered desires."

Live in the rest (existence-unity-bliss) and act with love for the happiness of all beings. Follow the three principles of peace, wisdom and love. For some people it is important to live in the outer peace, to achieve the inner peace. Basically, the inner peace is the result of a calm mind. A calm mind we get when we focus in wisdom (Spirituality, God, Yoga) and work continually on our negative qualities, addictions, fears and aggressions.

Everyone should find his personal balance of rest and action. Those who live in the inner balance, save their energy, their physical and mental health. Our mind grows into the light, if we strengthen not only the calmness, but also the positivity and the love in us. We should replace negative thoughts with positive thoughts. We should constantly practice positive thinking, positive speaking and positive doing.

When we facilitate the desire for a happy world, then we grow further towards enlightenment. The secret to this wish is the connection from the inner to the outer world. We are not spiritually separated from other beings. Their happiness affects us. When we visualize other beings as happy, then we also feel happy. Those who encourage the goal to a happy world creates positivity within. When we send light to all beings, then one day light will come through to our souls. When we do something good for the world, the world will reward us with a positive psyche.

There is a danger along the path of unconditional, all-encompassing love. We can overwhelm ourselves and work too hard and have no energy left for happiness. A karma yogi must practice rooted in inner peace. A karma yogi must take care of him or herself, as it is impossible to take care of others unless the self is cared for. Furthermore, a path of exhaustion only leads to burn-out, not enlightenment.

Jesus said, “love God and love your neighbor.” (Meaning, practice spiritually balanced for the development of the self and for the happiness of others.) Swami Shivananda said, “love, serve, give, meditate, purify, and realize your true self.” The Dalai Lama explains, “live balanced by helping and by meditating.“ There are two great goals a human can have. He or she can seek enlightenment or work towards a happier world. At best, we combine the two.

The Ten Ethic Principles of Patanjali
Patanjali is the father of Indian yoga. He lived in the second century BC. In the Yoga Sutra, he grasped the essence of all yoga knowledge together in a few words. The two main sets of Patanjali are, "Yoga is the calming of the mind. Then the yogi lives in the light." To soothe the thoughts Patanjali recommends a two-step way. The first stage is the development of positive ethic qualities (the ten yoga principles). Without positive qualities in meditation inner peace will break through the chaos of the outside world again and again. The second stage of the yogic path is to practice meditation. In meditation we quiet our thoughts completely. We stay in inner peace. At some point we develop the ability to combine meditation and outer action. Then we can always stay in peace and happiness, and at the same time we can fulfill our external obligations.

1. Non-violence (ahimsa) = No killing other beings. Be meek. Be peaceful.

2. Truthfulness (Satya) = Live in the truth. Basically, be honest with yourself and others. Also no little lies of convenience. A lie is permissible only in well justified situations, for example, if you save with a lie the life of another human being. A Yogi is silent in doubt. Those who consistently lives in the truth radiate truth. Their fellow men trust them.

3. Righteousness (Asteya) = Not stealing, not cheating. A Yogi is in professional life generally honest. He does not seek unwarranted advantage, but he is looking for fair trade.

4. Wisdom (Brahmacharia) = Live in the spiritual focus (in the light/in God = Brahman). Do not serve the money (outer luck) but the inner happiness (God, Brahman, enlightenment). Be centered in your inner happiness and peace.

5. Simplicity (Aparigraha) = Be moderate in external enjoyment and consumption. A spiritual person lives modestly outwardly and inwardly rich. A Yogi uses his energy not in outer actions, but lives so peaceful that it turns inward and cleanse his body from the inside. One day, he lives permanently in the light (the cosmos energy).

6. Worship of the spiritual goal (Ishvara-Pranidhana) = Thus we do not lose our spiritual path, it is necessary that we remind ourselves again and again to our spiritual goal. We can worship an image (Goddess, Shiva, Patanjali), we can bow before a statue (Buddha, Jesus, Shiva) or speak a mantra (prayer). What is your spiritual goal? Send light to all beings, and wish a happy world.

7. Sacrifice the ego (Shaucha) = Purification / cleaning. The way into the light passes through the crucifixion of the ego. Without a crucifixion there is no enlightenment. True sacrifice is an art. He who sacrifices too much braced themselves internally. Who sacrifices too little, does not solves his tentions. How do you get inner peace today? "I let go of my false desires. I take things as they are. My sacrifice today is ... "

8. Selfdiscipline (Tapas) = A clear goal, a clear life plan and a clear way of practicing. Tapas means to lead a disciplined life. Follow your inner wisdom and you'll win on your spiritual path.

9. Reading (Svadhyaya) = The daily reading (mantra, meditation) keeps us on the spiritual path, cleanses our spirit, connects us with the enlightened masters and makes us to spiritual victors.

10. Contentment (Santosha) = Satisfied with what one has. Which idea will help you to get into the satisfaction with yourself and your life? "My thought of satisfaction is now ..."

The Path to Inner Happiness
Inner tension and inner conflict occur when people prevent themselves from being at peace and from experiencing true happiness at a deeper level. This inner tension and conflict takes energy, destroys any chance for contentment, and lower one’s overall spiritual positivity. A highly tense and conflicted person tends to have negative thoughts. Love for oneself and others is blocked mentally and spiritually.

Inner conflict can mainly be traced to one’s childhood. In a conflicted society, where pressure to perform and competition is a daily reality ingrained upon its members, a tendency toward conflict and tension is passed on from parents to their children during their upbringing. Parents live out their worries, doubts, fears, aggressions, addictions, and thus influence the spiritual development of their children. Other childhood sources of learned conflict stem from television. Tension in turn then comes from professional stress, strained relationships, divorce, and more, as these children grow up to face similar challenges as their parents face or once faced. The good news is, whenever this inner conflict builds up inside, it can also be eliminated. The bad news is this can take quite a while. Whenever tension builds over the course of several years, it will also take years to relieve. It is always worth the effort, however, to take on the challenge of curing oneself of such inner negativity. For example, illness later on in life can be avoided as a life full of peace, energy, and positivity is a healthier one.

The amount of inner peace a person possesses correlates oppositely to the amount of tension in one’s body and spirit. The lower the tension, the more positive the life force present. Every person has the potential to find absolute peace and contentment. Everyone can achieve enlightenment. The only thing standing in the way of this goal is our own tension and negativity. Once these darker feelings subside, our inner positive energy grows.

A good way to go about curing oneself of this life force robbing negativity is to practice several spiritual exercises every day. We have to live in a way that facilitates a gravitation towards the light, instead of the dark. Most people in today’s day and age are on a march in the opposite direction. They live day to day feeling egotistical and stressed out. They live their lives focused on creating more tension and end up burnt out, sick, negative, and depressed.

Tension can reside in the body and the soul. The body and the soul are connected, and in order to relieve ourselves of inner tension, we should practice spiritual exercises for both elements. Inner happiness can manifest on a deeper level only when we cleanse ourselves of this inner tension. As people are very individual, no two have the same sorts of tension and negativity. Everyone should therefore experiment with said exercises to find what is best for him or her to direct one’s path in the appropriate way for him or herself to find inner happiness. True contentment can be found as one of the enlightened. The deeper purpose of life is to reach enlightenment.

Overcome Fear, Sadness and Anger
In every life there is pain, loss, illness, loneliness and death. We have no claim to a long life still to be spared by fate. What is your pain today?

1. The problem: Describe briefly your situation and your problem. How exactly is your situation? What is the problem? Where is the center of the problem?

2. The Emotions: What are the feelings it in you? Fear, anger, addiction / desire, grief. What feeling is strongest? Where is the feeling sitting in your body?

3. The thoughts: What thoughts are connected with your feelings? Why are you sad, anxious, angry or longing? Count all your stressful thoughts down. (My thoughts are ...)

4. Thinking: What triggers your problem? What is the way out of your problem? What brings you to love, excitement, fulfillment, fortunately, satisfaction? Think about your problem for so long, until you find a solution. Think about different solutions. Collect all the information you need.

5. Implementation: Follow your positive thoughts. Fulfill your positive life plan. Avoid meaningless brooding. Now is the time to realize powerful. Go your way to victory and be content with you. What is now your positive duty? "My positive sentence is ...."

title: Yoga


text: Category:Economics of Electrical Power Generation


text: Electrical Power Economics/Tariff Characteristics


text: Electrical Power Economics/Formulae

title: Electrical Power Economics/Formulae


text: Electrical Power Economics/Formulae/Formula


text:
Electrical Power Economics/Formulae/Intro

Guidlines to using this formulae sheet:

This part is a formula sheet and also a condensation of important concerpts of this course. In most countries formula sheets are included as an appendix to an examination paper, and in some not. At wikiversity we include a formula sheet for courses offered in the School of Electrical engineering. Please take note of the following guide lines when using this formula sheet.

 * Use this formula sheet sparingly, and avoid relying completely on it.
 * Reffer to lecture notes where a certain formula is not included here.
 * Formula derivations are not part of this page.
 * If you spot any error or discripency please notify the course co-ordinator or correct it yourself (this is a wiki after all)

Formula included in this page is applicable to this course specifically.


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Environmental community building

This article describes on how to build an environmental community.

How to become environmental
See Juridical national measures on climate change for instructions on becoming environmental. Also see Juridical_national_measures_on_transport,_politics_and_education for extra suggestions.

On land
Communities may be made out of towns in the developed world and in the developing world.

In the developed world, intentional/new-age communities found at the wikipedia may be used; see List of intentional communities and New Age communities. See also the appropriate technology-wikipedia article.

In the developing world, indiginous communities (eg those depicted in the BBC's Tribe-series; see http://www.bbc.co.uk/tribe/ ) are probably the best to target since many of them are already suffering from climate change. More info may be obtained from organisations mentioned at this BBC-website (eg Survival International, ...) aswell as Cultural Survival, ... A list of ethnic communities may also be found at this Wikipedia-article. Also, religious centra that have a intrest in ecology (eg Association of Buddhists for the Environment, ...) may join in, a list of notable centra is available at The Alliance of Religion and Conservation. Appropriate technology organisations (eg Practical Action, ...) may be used to reduce the price of the equipment needed for microgeneration, ... Examples on how the the technology may be created DIY can be seen on programs such as Planet Mechanics Also, abandoned cities may be used to create the communities, see Cheap acquiring of towns and large buildings

On sea
A special community may also be build at sea; see Cheap_acquiring_of_ship

Gathering extra workforce
In order to be able to construct more buildings, or enlarge the ecological projects (eg tree plantations, ...), extra workforce may be obtained from homeless and/or poor people. Also, people that leave in unhuman conditions or those that live in conflict zones (eg Somalia, parts of Kenia, slum villages in India as Dharavi, slums in Rio de Janeiro, Palestine, DR Congo, Central African Republic, ...) may be transported to the project sites. This can be done trough low-cost, bulk transportation (eg industrial vessels) within a larger project, condoned/sponsored by humanitarian organisations as UN Habitat. This operation would have benefits to the project (lower cost) and allow the volunteers of escaping their desperate situation and build up a humanworthy life.

Workplanning

 * Environmental community workplanning

Leisure

 * Environmental community leisure

Finance
Landbased communities may set-up treegrowing projects under the Flexible_Mechanisms (eg CDM or JI-projects) and/or set up any other profitable environmental projects (eg coral reef restauration).

Communities may help out each other trough money lending and sharing. See this page

Linking
The linking of these communities may be done trough cheap communication technology as the Wireless internet acces system and Cheap IRLP Amateur Radio-system

title: Environmental community building


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Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Hantz. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Hantz~enwikiversity that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:37, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:10, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Hantz~enwikiversity


text:
User talk:Lukem 1411

Well done
Good job on setting up your account,. Let me know if I can do anything as you go along. 'Official' Wikiversity welcome below. -- Jtneill - Talk - c 12:41, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

 Hello Lukem 1411, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may

 * Take a guided tour and learn to edit.
 * Visit a (kind of) random random project.
 * Browse everything on Wikiversity, or visit a portal corresponding to your educational level: pre-school, primary, secondary, tertiary, non-formal education.
 * Find out about research activities on Wikiversity.

 * Read an introduction for teachers and find out how to write an educational resource for Wikiversity.
 * Give feedback about your initial observations
 * Discuss Wikiversity issues or ask questions at the colloquium.
 * Chat with other Wikiversitans on #wikiversity-en.

And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage, and see you around Wikiversity! Jtneill - Talk - c 12:41, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

 Hello , we are the Baah and Bahh twins and we'd both like to welcome you to Wikiversity. While you sit back and explore Wikiversity, enjoy some of our fresh goat milk. You can help us learn by creating new learning resources or help us by improving the guided tours and other exploration tools. We look forward to seeing you around. Baaaahbye for now.

hi you nice
Roger you suck! :(

title: User talk:Lukem 1411


text:
User:IainD

I am enrolling in WikiU to do the Filmmaking courses.

I live at the Findhorn Foundation in Scotland, a charitable trust working in the fields of spiritual education and ecology/sustainability.

--IainD 13:24, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

title: User:IainD


text:
User:Elariel~enwikiversity

My name is Elle and I'm a scottish student currently taking an extended leave of absense from her genetics degree for medical reasons. While trapped at home I've decided not to waste my time, and I'm planning on learning Japanese language and culture, develop my paltry art and photography skills, and work on improving my faded french, egyptian heiroglyphics, mathematics, and cookery abilities!

title: User:Elariel~enwikiversity


text:
User talk:Elariel~enwikiversity

 Hello Elariel, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may

 * Take a guided tour and learn to edit.
 * Visit a (kind of) random random project.
 * Browse everything on Wikiversity, or visit a portal corresponding to your educational level: pre-school, primary, secondary, tertiary, non-formal education.
 * Find out about research activities on Wikiversity.

 * Read an introduction for teachers and find out how to write an educational resource for Wikiversity.
 * Give feedback about your initial observations
 * Discuss Wikiversity issues or ask questions at the colloquium.
 * Chat with other Wikiversitans on #wikiversity-en.

And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage, and see you around Wikiversity! --Cormaggio talk 13:53, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

 * That's an impressive variety of interests - I hope you can figure out how to keep them stimulated here. :-) Cormaggio talk 13:53, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Elariel. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Elariel~enwikiversity that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:32, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:06, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Elariel~enwikiversity


text:
Wikiversity:Wikiversity the Movie/Kickoff meeting

Agenda

 * Everybody's vision + motivation
 * What content should be in the movie ? (see here)
 * Only one movie ?
 * Length of movie ?
 * Who is our audience ?
 * Licence of movie: e.g. how can the WV logo licence (CopyrightByWikimedia) work with a CC/PD licence ?
 * assigning tasks (can also be longterm, final date of movie is 15th August 2009)
 * identifying next steps

When would you like the meeting to be ?
I would propose we do this on a weekend (Saturday or Sunday) - in the last IRC meetings that was always best choice. Please also write the time frame you are available on these days.

 * Doesn't this depend on which Saturday or Sunday? :-) Cormaggio talk 17:02, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * See above "The exact dates we will identify later." Please signal if weekends is ok for you. Atm we don't know who will join. If there is not much response we certainly can do this also for a time where the people willing to help have time. Erkan Yilmaz uses the Chat (try) 17:04, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, but it'd be possible that we select a particular Saturday on the basis that people are generally free on Saturdays, only to find out that noone can actually make it on that particular Saturday. I'm rejiggling the options to give more scope to be specific, as well as general. Cormaggio talk 17:15, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, let me adapt the table. JWSchmidt is in chat then he can also reedit, Erkan Yilmaz uses the Chat (try) 17:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


text:
User:Seclarks

I am just typing here to get things started. I really don't want to do this right now so I am going to link back to the Main Page.--Seclarks 21:59, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

title: User:Seclarks


text:
User:Maikking

 * I'm a sysop and bureaucrat on Polish Wikipedia.

 * Polish Wikipedia:Changing username
 * Polish Wikipedia:Changing username/Usurpations

Please contact me on my home wiki.

pl:user:Maikking

title: User:Maikking


text:
User talk:Seclarks

 Hello Seclarks, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may

 * Take a guided tour and learn to edit.
 * Visit a (kind of) random random project.
 * Browse everything on Wikiversity, or visit a portal corresponding to your educational level: pre-school, primary, secondary, tertiary, non-formal education.
 * Find out about research activities on Wikiversity.

 * Read an introduction for teachers and find out how to write an educational resource for Wikiversity.
 * Give feedback about your initial observations
 * Discuss Wikiversity issues or ask questions at the colloquium.
 * Chat with other Wikiversitans on #wikiversity-en.

And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage, and see you around Wikiversity! --Cormaggio talk 17:38, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:Seclarks


text:
User talk:WAS 4.250/1

My main account is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:WAS_4.250. WAS 4.250 14:58, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Welcome
 Welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may

 * Take a guided tour and learn to edit.
 * Visit a (kind of) random random project.
 * Browse everything on Wikiversity, or visit a portal corresponding to your educational level: pre-school, primary, secondary, tertiary, non-formal education.
 * Find out about research activities on Wikiversity.

 * Read an introduction for teachers and find out how to write an educational resource for Wikiversity.
 * Discuss Wikiversity issues or ask questions at the colloquium.
 * Chat with other Wikiversitans on #wikiversity-en.

And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage, and see you around Wikiversity! WAS 4.250 16:38, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

>"I welcome me!"
 * That is nice, so we save this step - welcome aboard, Erkan Yilmaz uses the Chat (try) 16:40, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. WAS 4.250 16:51, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Insight Into What?
On the talk page for the BLP on David Berlinski, you respond to FeloniousMonk and Hrafn's remarks mischaracterizing Berlinski with this terse comment:

Interesting and insightful. Thanks. WAS 4.250 (talk) 19:50, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Which begs the question: What insight do you glean into the character and mindset of FM and Hrafn?

Moulton 01:20, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I hate it when people use the phrase "begging the question" as you just did. That's not what the phrase originally meant. But now everyone uses it as you just did. Ah, well. ... language changes over time. As for an answer to your question ... well, what's it to ya? Trying to cause trouble? WAS 4.250 04:47, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Coming up with an accurate and insightful model of an adversary is known to be a hard problem. Since FM and Hrafn might not bear the same relationship to you as they do to me, you might be in a considerably better position to glean an accurate and insightful model of their character. Thus what it is to me is the long-sought solution to a vexing perplexity. —Moulton 05:29, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Oh. ... I don't give two hoots about "an accurate and insightful model of their character". So don't ask me. I don't care about that. I don't know why you care; but I don't care why you care. It seems petty and pointless. But I'll spend my time as I choose and you'll do the same. WAS 4.250 09:42, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Oh, it's in the nature of us atypical characters who are like unto anthropologists from Mars to craft system models of earthlings and their ferchachta culture. —Barsoom Tork (Talk) 11:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

WAS, you might have missed this recently posted thread section: How Hrafn and Odd nature blew it, too. —Moulton 23:25, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I saw it. And I think it is inappropriate. You should be a bigger man than that. Be above that sort of thing. Move on. We have bigger fish to fry. Stop dwelling on the mud on your shoes and look to the horizon. Have you read the Timetable? It's possible. We can aim for it. It will be inspirational and motivating for us and others to keep in mind how much an impact we can make if we do this right. Don't blow it all by being so petty as to use your userpage as a billboard for attacking other people. It feels ... unethical. WAS 4.250 23:35, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

 * What I'm aiming at there, ham-handed as it might be, is some insight into what it takes to open the eyes of those who are most blind. This is the problem that Caprice the Flying Goat has to solve.  —Moulton 00:23, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

 * In that case, may I gently suggest you try to be more clinical in your choice of words in that attempt? WAS 4.250 13:31, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Would you settle for "missed the mark" in lieu of "blew it"? —Moulton 15:26, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

 * That's a start. The issue is not what I think. The issue is politics. People will use any tool you hand them to make claims that give them political power. Obama's name is used to imply things for example. So it is simply unwise to hand people weapons against you. Read what you write thinking "if some one wants to derail this project, could they use this to 'prove' that this project is a mere coat-rack to excuse personal attacks against our valued contributors?" Before this is all over, someone will make that accusation. Don't help them. WAS 4.250 16:05, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Revised. —Moulton 16:25, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

I tip my hat to you, Sir!
Obviously, we're on the opposite sides of the fence, but that doesn't mean that we can't learn from each other. Thank you for being inclusive. Hopefully, we'll teach each other things that we hadn't thought of before! The Fieryangel 23:03, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Since I'm the "man in the middle" here, let me say that I rely on each of you to anchor me to opposite banks of the chasm that I'm attempting to bridge in this ambitious project. I rely on WAS to promote the reduction of abstract theoretical ideas to concrete practices that can be implemented and measured.  Conversely, I rely on The Fieryangel to help me fulfill Umberto Eco's edict: "Whereof we cannot make a theory, we must tell a story instead."  To the extent that some of the theory is too abstract, too elusive, too inchoate, I hope to express it initially in story and song.  In the end, the whole story — whether it be a smashing success or a smashing failure — might well be told as an epic ballad.  —Moulton 06:17, 12 July 2008 (UTC)

RE: People resources
Thanks for reminding me about adding myself to that list. I have added myself. Anonymous101 17:18, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

RE: Ethics on Wikipedia and the internet
OK, I probably just removed it because that is what I do on Wikinews when I have written something. If I write any essays in future I won't remove it from the list. Thanks for notifying me of my mistake, Anonymous101 talk 19:16, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

I am thinking that this is an important subject to clarify. And I am also wondering if the different essays might be combined to created a kind of synthesis of expressed ideas, which may or may not express consensus?

Another idea that I had was to write the same essay from two different viewpoints, regardless of what one personally believes, to try to see what a NPOV version of such ideas might express.

I'm just brainstorming here. The Fieryangel 12:29, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I've been thinking that maybe the subpage listing the essays should say something along those lines. That while others may edit an essay, don't change the viewpoint of an essay too much - if you want a very different POV, just write a different essay. Why don't you come up the actual words to some such effect and add them to the second paragraph of the main essay page? WAS 4.250 18:26, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

 * In the event we end up with two or more essays which are at odds with each other, a useful method to deal with that would be to craft a dialogue that employed synthetic dramaturgy to compare and contrast the dissimilar views. —Moulton 05:10, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I think it is inevitable that we will have a variety of viewpoints. If you wish to write an essay whose viewpoint is a dialogue that employs a synthetic dramaturgy to compare and contrast other views then that is simply one more viewpoint; neither more nor less valid than other viewpoints as far as representation on the project is concerned. What will make one essay more valid than another will be in its contents as decided by the mind of the reader. So be convincing. Original research is allowed here. WAS 4.250 05:37, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Pssst!
Hi WAS. I'm looking through WP for recruits now that the buzzards have found other dead horses to eat. Be careful to assume good faith, please... the folks I'm likely to invite are very much of the mellow sort :-). --SB_Johnny | talk 14:38, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Wonderful! WAS 4.250 01:18, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

An Idea...
Since you don't have or use E-Mail, we lack a way to exchange private messages. From time to time this a problem, as I have no way to communicate with you via a secure channel.

I have an idea how we can do this, without the need for you to have or use an E-Mail address.

We can communicate privately on my derelict Motet forum, The Blooming Lotus.

Normally, when one registers for an account there, one provides an E-Mail address. The Motet software generates a random password and sends it to that address. Obviously that won't work in this case.

But since I have custody of the Motet forum server and am the only Admin on it, I can manually create accounts and change passwords.

So here is my proposal...

You go to The Blooming Lotus site and click on New User Registration. Instead of giving your name and E-Mail in the usual way, do this:

 * Put whatever you like in for First and Last Name.

 * Put in whatever you like for a UserID. (Lower case alphabetics, no spaces or special characters.)

 * Put in my E-Mail address so that I will receive the notification of your automatically generated password. (Do you know my E-Mail address?)

 * In the box for "Code" where you normally put in a password reminder phrase, put in the secret password you want. I will be able to read whatever you write in the "Code" box.

I will then manually replace the automatically generated password with the one you specify in the "Code" box.

Voila. You will have a posting account on Blooming Lotus where I can set up a private forum for just the two of us. No one else will have access. There, you can post private messages to me in a very easy-to-use and secure forum.

Does that work for you?

Moulton 19:38, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I have zero interest in private communications on the web. Say it in public or not at all works well for me. WAS 4.250 19:45, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

 * The idea, the affordance, and the opportunity stands, should you ever find the need for it. In the meantime, there will be some messages that neither of us can communicate to the other without invalidating the utility of message. So be it.  —Moulton 20:00, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Thank you for the opportunity. The choice to go left avails one of opportunities to the left and forgoes those to the right. I am happy with foregoing the opportunities afforded by private messaging. But thanks anyway. WAS 4.250 20:26, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Should these Wikimedia meeting points ever go dark for either of us, you now have an emergency backup option. —Moulton 23:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Thank you for that. Also, please note that you can always go to a library and leave a message on my user talk page. Banned people I talk to have done that at rare times and no one goes ape over it. Even if deleted, I can read it in the history and respond. Oversight rules would not cover oversighting a banned user's edit unless it outed someone or was libel. Most people at WikiMedia are very practical. I do not foresee me getting banned, and if I did, I would promise not to do it again (even if I did not do it in the first place) and would be unbanned. It is the practical thing to do. There are more creative and interesting ways to respond than to get into the bowels of Wikipedia resolution processes (which, when I'm in a bad mood, seem mainly to serve to keep game players too busy to screw with articles). If you plan to act in ways that will get you banned, leave me out of any such plans. I think that would be childish. WAS 4.250 08:54, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Actually I can pull down a fresh Verizon DSL IP address anytime I want, and I have an idle DSL router on my LAN that I can use for that purpose without disturbing any of my existing IPs. I can also use VPN into MIT and pull a random IP from that pool, too.  So I have no shortage of IP addresses if I ever need a random one.  —Moulton 00:42, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

 * "Go to a library" was not meant literally; I am aware of your technical background and university resources. WAS 4.250 07:03, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

That brings up an interesting point. I've used metaphors and had people take them literally. And I've interpreted metaphors (like Urim and Thummim) which other scholars either took literally or idiotically. Even worse, I've had people read scientific predictions (from a scientific model) as if they were political threats. It's strange when a scientist is treated as if they were some kind of god able to control the laws of nature. Politicized cultures are crazy-making cultures. —Moulton 04:36, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I laughed out loud at "idiotically" and "political threats". As for "crazy-making cultures"; well, it may sound like I'm making a joke; but in all seriousness, I've studied algorithms for intelligence for a lifetime (and wrote some in assembly code) and I have concluded (among other things) that all intelligence is necessarily "insane" in that perception involves throwing away 99.99% of the data, looking for data that is relevant to one's known data needs, resulting in behavior that appears insane when you know what data should be looked for that is being overlooked. Multiple independent minds, openness to new ideas, and tolerance for differences is the solution to this. WAS 4.250 01:40, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

 * It's common to look for evidence that confirms one's sacred beliefs while ignoring pesky evidence that refutes one's beliefs. It takes a certain amount of discipline to be a scientist, examining all evidence, pro and con, and being especially skeptical of one's own pet theories.  Like Socrates, I tend to be an annoying gadfly when it comes to rigorously examining all evidence, pro and con (and occasionally finding it necessary to speak the scientific truth to corrupt political power).  I can report that I have overwhelming evidence that the self-deluded political powers-that-be don't care for that practice on my part.  No they don't.  Not one bit.  —Moulton 02:05, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, I agree entirely. But pay attention to this: Even when one wishes to "examine all evidence", one throws away data that is believed not relevant - I ignore the phase of the moon and other astronomical phenomenon when balancing my checkbook - but someone who believes in astrology may not. It is impossible to not throw away most the data most the time. WAS 4.250 02:13, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Of course what's interesting is the liminal data that lurks just below radar, the next significant datum slated to come to light. This is the other definition of information: the difference that makes a difference.  One way to tell that some data is significant is that some hysterical power broker is anxious to suppress or delete it, and to silence those who provide it.  —Moulton 04:09, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes. Information theory says that the amount/value of information in a message depends on the probability of its contents. Telling me what I already know is telling me nothing. Trustworthy data that a certain number is a losing lottery bet is one thing, that a certain number has won is another, and that a certain number will win is indeed yet another matter. And those who would seek to influence what others know or don't know would do well to heed the lessons of The Purloined Letter. WAS 4.250 04:40, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

 * When I was quite young and metaphorically challenged, adults would say things like, "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink." I would file away these cryptic non sequitirs until I could figure out how to decode their meaning.  It occurs to me that if you lead a horse to water, but then withhold the water, the horse will develop a thirst for that which is just tantalizingly out of reach. —Moulton 05:46, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Is Cary Bass acting in bad faith?
WAS, what do you make of this? Is Cary acting in bad faith? —Moulton 04:42, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

 * He appears to be acting as if BADSITES were a Foundation policy. Is he overstepping his authority? Perhaps we need to ask the Foundation Board members. I'll ask the chair of the Wikimedia Foundation Board of Trustees here. WAS 4.250 11:59, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

 * He's not acting in any way other than as a user voicing an opinion. Again, I misinterpreted a strong statement of opinion as an imperative statement, and I'm sorry about that. Guys, please stop pushing people's buttons, because all of Wikiversity is going to feel the hammer if your actions bring it down. --SB_Johnny talk 12:14, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

 * I'd be thrilled to stop pushing people's buttons. But first people have to disclose where their buttons are hiding beneath their cloaks of invisibility.  —Moulton 12:23, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Cary badly over-reacted in the Duova incident also. WAS 4.250 13:14, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

 * http://underground.musenet.org:8080/bkort/bedford/globe.html WAS 4.250 13:26, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Ayup. I wrote a comic opera about that one, too.  —Moulton 18:30, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Glad you joined
I am happy to see your participation at the new project. I want to assure you that it is not intended to be a fight, rather a rational and academic analysis of an example of conflict and proposed methods of resolution and, ultimately, prevention. Donek (talk) - Go raibh mile maith agaibh 17:38, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Wonderful. Please let me know if there is anything specific you think I can do to help. WAS 4.250 17:54, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I would like to ask you a number of questions if that is alright:

 * 1) Are you a custodian
 * 2) How can we increase the number of participants in the project?
 * 3) How do we avoid conflict within the project itself?
 * 4) Do you think a portal could be created in relation to the project? At the minute there are policies which are official, up for vote, proposed etc. The whole system is a mess (IMHO). The portal would contain learning projects in which participants could study the community and decipher whether or not certain problems exist and, if they do, how they can be combatted. I think a studious approach to policy and procedure is better than someone (and I have been guilty of this in the past) just proposing a policy on a whim. We could analysis existance of a problem, decide (on the results) if it needs a policy and/or a procedure, write a policy and/or procedure (based on the results), present it to the community and have a vote. Obviously, such projects would require the participation of several members of the community, especially the custodians, who have a huge combined experience here. It would obviously need to follow the scientific method if it is to be widely accepted. This is not a policy proposal, just a learning project as an experiment. Donek (talk) - Go raibh mile maith agaibh 19:22, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

WAS 4.250 20:08, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) I am not a custodian and do not wish to be one.
 * 2) One can try to increase the number of participants in the project by telling others about it.
 * 3) We can try to minimize conflict within the project by allowing everyone to have their say, with no one alloowed to delete others' opinions.
 * 4) A portal could be created in relation to the project.

Brief, but helpful Donek (talk) - Go raibh mile maith agaibh 20:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Welcome!
Does your welcome warning to me apply as well to Moulton, who is "completely changing the meaning" of my section six - using it to debate what a disruptive user is, rather than discussing what should be done to get rid of disruptive users. Plese tell him to stop "completely changing the meaning," of my section. Salmon of Doubt 17:41, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

 * You are right. Moulton has no right to change the meaning of the section that is representing your point of view. I will tell him so. Feel free to revert anyone who changes the meaning of any section you add that is representing your point of view. WAS 4.250 18:41, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

With respect to your question
With respect to your question asked here, my answer is here. My version was a compromise. I understand that it is Moulton's MO to get compromises, then push farther. Since my preferred version is vastly different than the existing version, I am unwilling to compromise further. You told me not to edit other people's "educational resources." I did not do so. They are now editing mine. I will commence editing theirs. Salmon of Doubt 23:42, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Now comes the whiner of our discontent. —Moulton 05:47, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Moulton, you are also troublesome to deal with, so you got no room to talk. WAS 4.250 05:57, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Uffda. —Moulton 06:54, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Perhaps you would like to create your own WikiVersity Project at http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=Moulton&action=edit WAS 4.250 05:43, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Are you saying that your initial statements, telling me to create my own sections was incorrect? That actually, people OWN the pages they create, and that I should go ahead and colonize a lot of pages? That would work, I guess. Salmon of Doubt 10:53, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Well, if you can modify someone elses words without getting into a revert war then do so; else if you can create sections on a page someone else created without causing edit wars then do so; else if you can add new pages without the creator of the project saying you are creating resources not covered in that project's area then do so; else if you can create a Wikiversity project within the goals of Wikiversity then do so. The point is that Wikiversity allows you to do original research and present your own point of view. It is a waste of time to get into revert wars. So do what works. WAS 4.250 14:16, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * It takes two to edit war. Pursuant to your earlier request, I claim all sections started by me in pages that are substantively edited by multiple people as mine, and will ruthlessly revert war to retain them. I claim all pages started by me that are not substantively edited by other people to be mine in perpetuity and will ruthlessly revert war to retain them. I grant all other editors the right to do as well. Problem solved! Salmon of Doubt 15:04, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Am I to understand that you are propounding the principle of ownership of a Wiki page (or a section of a Wiki page), along with the notion that you have an unalienable right to ruthlessly revert any and all edits not to your liking, in perpetuity? Have I fairly understood and restated your position here?  —Moulton 15:34, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Not "Wiki page"; but a page that is part of this specific project. I fully support Salmon of Doubt on this. Also see User talk:Hillgentleman. Also note that if Salmon of Doubt reverts other content while maintaining a section, his section might be kicked off that page - so either make sure you are only changing content in your section, Salmon of Doubt, or else just move that section to its own page. WAS 4.250 15:54, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * How do you propose to enforce that, WAS, if Salmon of Doubt is prepared to revert ruthlessly, l'olam va-ed? —Moulton 16:40, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * The custodians here do enforcement, not me. I'm organizing and coordinating. And babysitting lately. Grow up guys. WAS 4.250 16:55, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * The custodians are unlikely to drop the Hammurabic Banhammer on anyone, or otherwise engage in Machiavellian Machinations, because such enforcement regimes are well-known to be iatrogenic — ineffective at best and counter-productive at worst. That's why we have initiated a research project to discover ethical best practices to supplant the iatrogenic and dysfunctional practices that have turned Wikipedia into a toxic waste dump. Moulton 17:52, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Speaking of metastasis, it occurs to me that with three different versions of the Case Studies subpage, we need a Content Management System (CMS) here. In addition to the original Case Studies, we now have Case Studies alt and Case Studies2, each presenting a variant model of reality. How many different models of reality are there in these alternate unrealities?  More to the point, how may we apply the Tools of Epistemology to distinguish the Ground Truth from Haphazard Flights of Fancy and Cloud Cuckoo Land?  —Moulton 13:13, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * You do realize that we would just wind up with multiple Content Management Systems if there is any editorializing or assessment making in the Content Management System? How many different models of reality are there? As many as people care to add that fit within the project's scope. Any attempt at creating learning resources that are obvious parodies of other learning resource or any such thing would be outside the scope of this project and would need to be in a new project - something like a "Criticism of the Ethical Project Project". You and Salmon of Doubt could each create your own; be off and running your own little personal Arbcase-like place to  present your opinion on the world destroying behavior of your chosen nemesis. By the way, Case Studies alt redirects to Case Studies2 so they do not each present a "variant model of reality". Do try to get your facts straight. WAS 4.250 14:16, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * I would be happy to go with Joomla, or whatever CMS our resident expert recommends. That might be a functional way to keep the versions straight.  —Moulton 17:52, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * WAS, See my reply here. I recommend the disclosure template:disclosure Hillgentleman|Talk 16:41, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

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Wikimedia Ethics/The fundamentals of ethics

The fundamentals of ethics
There is a tendency of the mind to engage in what could be called "conceptual proliferation." Rather than being aware of the utter simplicity of a particular situation through experiential insight, we would prefer to chop it up into a bunch of tiny bits of pieces, look at each of these pieces under a magnifying glass, labeling every tiny piece, discussing the nature of each piece by itself, and in the process, we end up causing more confusion for ourselves than we had at the outset. This is clear from the huge abundance of problems in western philosophy which are not present in eastern philosophy, where the problems are often clearly resolved. Much of the success of 20th century western philosophy has come through either borrowing from eastern philosophy or re-discovering the same ideas without specifying the originality of these discoveries or giving credit where credit is due.

So, a lot of Wikipedians would therefore like to talk (a lot) about how to improve the wiki-process: in this case, it is geared towards making the process more ethical. If we talk enough about it, hopefully we can make Wikipedia more ethical, hmm? A clear perspective finds that all particular views (for or against identity verification, for example) are merely partial truths, because definitions of terms are personally defined, language is rooted in a deeper human psychology, and so no personal expression of truth can be wholly ingenuine, while on the other hand, if its validity relies solely on language, it can't be totally accurate either. And because managing social situations and resources involve trade-offs, often, it seems totally arbitrary to implement one policy over another (i.e. giving more authority to sysops, or taking such authority away).

In order to have a full understanding of the reality of ethics, we have to therefore understand the deeper psychology which underlies the language in which it is discussed. This kind of thing really cannot be picked apart through conjecture, because it is a direct experience; it can only be understood by means of clear intuition about one's direct experience around them while, once it's taken to the level of logical analysis, its full depth is lost.

With that said, as it seems to me, all ethical actions are rooted in and lead to:
 * Intelligent Observation - Realizing what is going on, distinguishing truth from false, distinguishing useful from the not useful, good from bad, encyclopedic from unencyclopedic.
 * Non-attachment - Not clinging, not being hooked, not being addicted, not being stuck to one's own opinions, others' opinions, particular ways of doing things, one's own personal gain, etc.
 * Reciprocity - The golden rule, treating others the same way you'd like to be treated, seeing others as being inseparable from yourself.

Conversely, all unethical actions are rooted in and lead to:
 * Ignorance - Lack of knowledge and intelligent observation.
 * Attachment - Wanting pleasurable things, wanting things to go our way.
 * Aversion - Wanting to avoid unpleasurable things, not permitting the possibility of not having our way.

Once this is understood, it seems like obvious common sense, "Well, that's so idiotically obvious. Why even mention it?" If it were so obvious, Wikipedia and people, in general, would not have ethical problems.

Anyway, not much more can be said about ethics than that, other than to elaborate on those basic principles. You also need to distinguish conventional ethical standards ("Don't edit war") from the underlying values ("Wikipedia is an encyclopedia") which might override particular rules, under specific contexts. Ethics is defined both by specific rules, but also by transcendent values which, when appropriately generalized, are usually but not always in accordance with the ethical conventions. Because the possible contexts in which the rules may be applied outnumbers the amount of time that can be devoted to analyzing and preparing the rules, there will always be certain cases where it is useful to blatantly ignore the rules, just as there are cases when it is ethical to break the law.

To put it in a different way: Humans are dynamic, sentient beings which cannot simply be predictably thrown around by bureaucratic deliberations on wiki-process. Any social setting will be dominated by some degree of chaos. Furthermore, what is more important than the process is the virtues of the editors themselves. If the virtues of editors are maintained, then it automatically follows that the process will also be maintained as just. If the virtues of the editors are not maintained, any amount of deliberation is a waste of time. Therefore, it is far more important that Wikipedia focus on certain virtues rather than certain processes or policies. 71.178.227.28 23:49, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Thank you for that. I will copy it to the learning resource Ethical Management of the English Language Wikipedia/The fundamentals of ethics. WAS 4.250 18:22, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Above copied from Talk:Ethical Management of the English Language Wikipedia. WAS 4.250 18:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)


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