text:
User talk:MCFalagan

Hello, welcome around here. I hope we can help you succeed in your learning goals. Below more info about Wikiversity, Erkan Yilmaz uses the Chat (try) 06:15, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

 Hello MCFalagan, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may

 * Take a guided tour and learn to edit;
 * Explore our learning projects;
 * Browse our portals, schools, and research activities;

 * [ Ask] a question or discuss Wikiversity issues at the Colloquium;
 * Read and help develop our community policies；or
 * Chat with other Wikiversitans on #wikiversity-en.

And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage, and see you around Wikiversity! Erkan Yilmaz uses the Chat (try) 06:15, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

 Woof! My name is Jack(Russell). I am a dog and a Wikiversity mascot. I am pretty new around Wikiversity. Perhaps we can learn together! Tail wag...

title: User talk:MCFalagan


text:
CisLunarFreighter/Background music selection and player

Interface

 * Play/pause button
 * Skip forward/back buttons
 * Scrubber (adjustable place in song)
 * Track list, basic song information (artist, play time, album, etc.)

Accessibility

 * Pop-up access ability
 * Keyboard hotkey?

Music

 * From free/licensed source
 * internet radio
 * Support for player-chosen music/music folders (Chosen in a "Browse" style, or with a direct path)
 * Some songs included
 * Mute music/all sounds for other music application

Genre

 * Ambient
 * Generally futuristic, with trance/electronica bias (<- open to discussion)

Quality/Type

 * mp3/ogg formats with included music
 * included music is in stereo
 * quality of included music averaging 128kbps mp3 equivalent
 * wma, aiff, wav formats readable by player (VLC integration?)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
User:Dee jay

About me
Name: dee_jay

Gender: male

Age: 23

Location: Transylvania

title: User:Dee jay


text:
User talk:Dee jay

 Hello Dee jay, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may

 * Take a guided tour and learn to edit;
 * Explore our learning projects;
 * Browse our portals, schools, and research activities;

 * [ Ask] a question or discuss Wikiversity issues at the Colloquium;
 * Read and help develop our community policies；or
 * Chat with other Wikiversitans on #wikiversity-en.

And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage, and see you around Wikiversity! Jtneill - Talk 08:46, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:Dee jay


text:
BCP/Castanea mollissima

Castanea mollissima

title: BCP/Castanea mollissima


text:
BCP/Castanea mollissima/Logs

2008 Logs

 * (no archived logs yet)

Recent Logs

 * --SB_Johnny | talk 09:19, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * --SB_Johnny | talk 09:05, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

title: BCP/Castanea mollissima/Logs


text:
BCP/Lepidium densiflorum

Lepidium densiflorum

title: BCP/Lepidium densiflorum


text:
BCP/Lepidium densiflorum/Logs

2008 Logs

 * (no archived logs yet)

Recent Logs

 * --SB_Johnny | talk 10:35, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * --SB_Johnny | talk 09:04, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

title: BCP/Lepidium densiflorum/Logs


text:
Wikiversity:WikiProject study before editing

WikiProject study before editing has the purpose to improve the quality of Wikipedia.

Purpose and procedure
Outsiders and experts have the complaint that Wikipedia is severely lacking in quality. An expert is someone who has studied for years to acquire expertise. To acquire expertise, it is necessary to read many books and to submit to the methodology of a field of study. To make sure that an expert gets more influence on the contents of an article, I want to propose to promote the acquiring of all relevant literature on a subject and debate on this, before editing an article. The resulting version of an article after the debate can be immortalised in a template on the talk page of the article and on a special project page where the debates are organized. This project page will be hosting several unchangeable versions of articles and it will be an integral part of Wikipedia, without breaking any of the rules, while circumventing the bureaucratic system of Wikipedia.

My suggestion on the procedure of a high-quality debate is:

 * 1) Picking an article or a couple of articles.
 * 2) Searching for all relevant literature.
 * 3) Making sure that all participants of a debate have all the literature. A solution for people who live far away from a major library and can't get most of the literature is to make all literature (temporarily) available on the internet. There could be a problem with copyrights. A solution would be to let participants get the literature from a 'local' major library.
 * 4) (Picking a chairman with the task to make sure that the debate is about the literature and not about something else. He could also make sure that the debate comes to an end.)
 * 5) The debate. The new version of the article will be constructed during the debate. Changes made by casual users to the old version of the article during the debate should be discussed as well. New participants of the debate will be asked to join our project and to read the literature during the debate. New titles can be added during the debate.
 * 6) Replacing the old version of the article with the new version.

Participants

 * User:Daanschr
 * User:Moulton
 * User:JWSchmidt
 * you ?

Title of topic

 * Start on (one month a year after topic is chosen).
 * Main language of this debate will be (English).
 * Literature

Wikipedia improvement projects that are active at Wikiversity

 * Ethical Management of the English Language Wikipedia (Feedback: 1, 2)
 * Study project on Intelligent Design - help improve articles such as David Berlinski and Icons of Evolution, improve Intelligent design

Related articles

 * List of templates
 * This article on Wikipedia
 * Wikiversity and Wikipedia services


text:
User talk:Rhmccullough

 Hello Rhmccullough, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may

 * Take a guided tour and learn to edit;
 * Explore our learning projects;
 * Browse our portals, schools, and research activities;

 * [ Ask] a question or discuss Wikiversity issues at the Colloquium;
 * Read and help develop our community policies；or
 * Chat with other Wikiversitans on #wikiversity-en.

And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage, and see you around Wikiversity! --Gbaor 11:27, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:Rhmccullough


text:
User talk:Vinoood

 Hello Vinoood, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may

 * Take a guided tour and learn to edit;
 * Explore our learning projects;
 * Browse our portals, schools, and research activities;

 * [ Ask] a question or discuss Wikiversity issues at the Colloquium;
 * Read and help develop our community policies；or
 * Chat with other Wikiversitans on #wikiversity-en.

And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage, and see you around Wikiversity! --Gbaor 11:28, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:Vinoood


text:
User talk:Tomboxe~enwikiversity

 Hello Tomboxe, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may

 * Take a guided tour and learn to edit;
 * Explore our learning projects;
 * Browse our portals, schools, and research activities;

 * [ Ask] a question or discuss Wikiversity issues at the Colloquium;
 * Read and help develop our community policies；or
 * Chat with other Wikiversitans on #wikiversity-en.

And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage, and see you around Wikiversity! --Gbaor 11:28, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Tomboxe. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Tomboxe~enwikiversity that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 00:07, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:24, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Tomboxe~enwikiversity


text:
User talk:Decoda

 Hello Decoda, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may

 * Take a guided tour and learn to edit;
 * Explore our learning projects;
 * Browse our portals, schools, and research activities;

 * [ Ask] a question or discuss Wikiversity issues at the Colloquium;
 * Read and help develop our community policies；or
 * Chat with other Wikiversitans on #wikiversity-en.

And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage, and see you around Wikiversity! --Gbaor 11:28, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:Decoda


text:
User talk:Karanime~enwikiversity

 Hello Karanime, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may

 * Take a guided tour and learn to edit;
 * Explore our learning projects;
 * Browse our portals, schools, and research activities;

 * [ Ask] a question or discuss Wikiversity issues at the Colloquium;
 * Read and help develop our community policies；or
 * Chat with other Wikiversitans on #wikiversity-en.

And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage, and see you around Wikiversity! --Gbaor 11:29, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

French Mentoring
Salut, Karanime. You are listed at the French stream as being a beginning student of French with prior French-language experience, who is interested in learning French at Wikiversity. The French Mentoring project has recently been launched, and if you add your name to that list, I will do my best to put you in contact with an appropriate Mentor who would be glad to help you. The Jade Knight (d'viser) 09:02, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Karanime. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Karanime~enwikiversity that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 23:40, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 06:13, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Karanime~enwikiversity


text:
Wikiversity talk:WikiProject study before editing

Interesting that this was started on Wikipedia - it seems like a much better fit for Wikiversity. :-) How about to rename it, simply, "debating"? (or "debating group"/"club"?) Cormaggio talk 11:30, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

 * It was deleted in December, 2006 (before WV was an independent project). I just happened to see a reference to it somewhere and asked Daanschr if he could use it here (I needed to undelete/import/redelete... there's probably plenty more there that was created and deleted even earlier, but it's a question of finding it). --SB_Johnny | talk 11:36, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Yup. We have Topic:Nietzsche and Nietzsche Name Game, which could fit in - I haven't searched for anything else. Daanschr, were you involved in this project (on Wikipedia) since its beginning? Cormaggio talk 11:56, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Heh. Import was successful :-). --SB_Johnny | talk 12:02, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

I was the only contributor. I abandoned the project because after months nobody else had joined yet. It was a point when i lost faith in the whole Wikipedia enterprise. If i hadn't had some spare time, i would have made an end to all activity on Wikipedia and related projects.--Daanschr 20:23, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Although it would be tempting to make a wild/informed guess as to why you lost faith in Wikipedia, let me remain faithful to the spirit of this project and ask you to say more about what caused you to lose faith. Did you become disappointed because Wikipedia failed to live up to your initial expectations?  —Moulton 11:47, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I came to Wikipedia in surprise. At first i thought it was a traditional encyclopedia. I liked to click on links. When i discovered that the timeline of earth was extremely long, i knew that an incredible amount of people must have put information in it. Than i discovered i could edit it instantly, and so i enthusiastically created and edited articles. The first moment that i became disgruntled was when i saw the article History of the World. It was so appallingly bad, that i wanted to leave. I didn't leave and decided to improve the article myself. The problem was the lack of people on the talk page. So, i put an entry on the article improvement drive, or whatever it is called. History of the World won and was edited for a week by an incredible amount of people. The main structure of the article has been made by me. Another problem occured, namely that nobody was interested in the main story and structure of the article accept for me. Most of the edits were grammatical corrections and there was much ado about the name of the article, something i wasn't very much interested in. This is one example of a problem occuring on most history related articles. I started the Organized Deabte Wikiproject, which didn't got much attention. I went to the expert rebellion article, to discover that there was hardly any activity there. I was part of the foundation of Citizendium, which was an inspiring experience. There was a nice crowd of academicly schooled people all with different experiences in life. The problem there was the eoconservative ideology of the founder, Larry Sanger, who wanted American English only, and tried to make an end to all nudity, insulting a lesbian woman. He wanted an autocratic rule in Citizendium with him in charge, which i regarded as morally wrong. Afterwards, i became a member of Wikiversity. Wikiversity doesn't have the academic expertise, the commitment, ideas and management skills of the people who founded Citizendium, but i do like the spirit of freedom, which is essential to success in my opinion. I think the main opponents of Wikiversity are apathy, lack of insight and lack of participance.--Daanschr 21:22, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Wikiversity already was active. I entered Wikiversity soon after establishing this project and convinced Mystictim from Wikiversity to become a member of it.--Daanschr 20:28, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

"to promote the acquiring of all relevant literature on a subject"
Clueless. Simply clueless. WAS 4.250 06:00, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

 * It is only an ideal, not the practise.--Daanschr 20:24, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

 * But it is not ideal. Ideal is for everyone to have access to that small subset that they can understand (in their language and at their educational level) that is best written and most reliable. Emphasis on quality, reliability and readability as well as accessibility. The quantity of available material in specialist libraries and private collection and opinions on the web are vast beyond reckoning. The problem for a scholar is not getting all of it, but winnowing it down to the best for his purpose. WAS 4.250 21:15, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

 * That is why i use the word relevant. Relevant can be something small.--Daanschr 07:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

 * You made me laugh. I recall once hearing "you make a small word do an awful lot of work". You make the word "relevant" do far more than the dictionary or common understanding would call on it to do. Give it more words to help it convey your meaning. That word is plum tired out from all the work you require it to do! WAS 4.250 07:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I believe that the practical implementation of words are more important than the words themselves. My idea behind this project is to establish a civil society, where different groups with different rules can all work within a simple widely applying format. The format consists out of 1) group of people who meet eachother on the internet 2) who are involved into studying and discussing knowledge to gain a deep understanding, which requires time, structure and commitment. I think it would be good to change the intro ones in a while, in order to adapt it to changing circumstances. Can you agree at least with the two points if you are interested?--Daanschr 21:30, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Purpose and ProcedureDaanschr's Initial Version

Outsiders and experts have the complaint that Wikipedia is severely lacking in quality. An expert is someone who has studied for years to acquire expertise. To acquire expertise, it is necessary to read many books and to submit to the methodology of a field of study. To make sure that an expert gets more influence on the contents of an article, I want to propose to promote the acquiring of all relevant literature on a subject and debate on this, before editing an article. The resulting version of an article after the debate can be immortalised in a template on the talk page of the article and on a special project page where the debates are organized. This project page will be hosting several unchangeable versions of articles and it will be an integral part of Wikipedia, without breaking any of the rules, while circumventing the bureaucratic system of Wikipedia.

Were I to edit the above statement of purpose, I might morph it into something like this:

Vision, Purpose, and MethodologyMoulton's Suggested Revision

Observers often complain that Wikipedia articles and discussions are of poor quality. Subject-matter experts who have studied a field for years have absorbed most of the relevant literature in the field and have established peer-reviewed practices for ongoing research. It would make sense for those crafting articles on Wikipedia to tap into the expertise of subject-matter experts by systematically reviewing the most germane literature and ensuring they have a clear appreciation and understanding of it. It would be especially worthwhile to invite recognized subject-matter experts to actively consult with those Wikipedians who are interested enough in a subject to prepare an article on it. Such workshops (on or off-wiki) with subject-matter experts and concomitant downstream discussions could be identified as a resource on an article's talk page. This project proposes to craft versions of articles prepared in such a non-standard manner to demonstrate the potential of this idea.

Moulton 12:18, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

 * When i stated this project i already considered the possibility that experts might come in who actually write the books that could be used for a debate. I didn't write anything about it, because i presumed that such experts might turn up later on. I thought that book-reading only would not be enough and that a different kind of lets say 'dialogue' would be necessary.
 * I have some issues with the idea of subject-matter experts consulting Wikipedians to prepare an article.
 * 1) What if some Wikipedians are interested in a subject, but can't find an subject-matter expert? They could read books and discuss them before editing an article. But, what if a Wikipedian interested in a subject can't find other Wikipedians interested in it? Than maybe an institute could help where Wikipedians can find eachother who want to edit an article while using books, which could also be an institute where experts can come to guide interested Wikipedians.
 * 2) What if a subject-matter expert has a one-sided perspective on a subject and that other experts with different perspectives are not reachable for guidance? Are books of these subject-matter experts allowed to be entered into the discussion?
 * 3) There seems to be a certain antipathy towards experts and a lack of interest in the hard work of acquiring knowledge. This is a cultural problem. Users can be learned to accept experts, but this requires trust (in which point 2 above is important) and it requires the hard work of establishing a method, a set of rules and practices.

 * I once had a plan to establish three kind of institutes. One in which non-experts can acquiring knowledge together. Secondly a place for academics of all kinds where they can study their expertise and come into contact with those with another kind of expertise. And a third one, in between, where amateurs and experts can work together in order to bring knowledge to a wider public, by creating youtube films, online entertainment competitive with television and improving articles on Wikipedia etc.--Daanschr 21:51, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Part of a discussion, derived from SB-Johnny's talk page

 * Somewhere in the burgeoning text of the project which WAS 4.250 and I just started, you will find a reference to Bohmian Dialogue, named for David Bohm. Bohmian Dialogue is similar to Socratic Dialogue, but somewhat more free form.  A key notion in Bohmian Dialogue is that it is not a competitive debate, but a cooperative inquiry of joint discovery.  Deborah Tannen made this distinction clear in her classic criticism, The Argument Culture: Stopping America's War of Words.  If you are interested in improving intellectual conversations, consider evolving from the Debate Paradigm to the Dialogue Model.  If that notion appeals to you, I would be most interested in participating in your project.  —Moulton 22:49, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Moulton, with debate, i didn't mean a conflict, but rather joined reading, discussing of texts and editing of articles. It could be possible in my view to have a debate with people who are of the same mind, but who have to find out what the texts that they read are exactly about. The projects' name could be changed to intellectual dialogue, instead of intellectual debate. I would be happy to welcome you ;-) --Daanschr 05:39, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Change debate to any of discourse, dialogue or inquiry and I'm in. —Moulton 05:43, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Done!--Daanschr 10:05, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

 * And, true to my word, I'm in. —Moulton 11:47, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Are you interested in the chat-meeting on this project which will be held this saturday at UTC 5 o' clock in the afternoon? (Sorry for using your talk page for such a long discussion, Johnny)--Daanschr 10:51, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Saturday at 17:00 UTC is 13:00 EDT. At that hour on Saturdays I am at the Science Museum.  —Moulton 02:48, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Maybe we can discuss it here or on another date on the chat?--Daanschr 07:53, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Sure. I have Skype and can open a voice connex most any time.  Several other chat/voice systems are also at hand.  Many of us use Google Chat.  —Moulton 11:47, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I don't have skype, but i do have google chat.--Daanschr 21:53, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Still not satisfied with the name
The present name for this project is too complicated. It is a project about book reading to reach an in depth understanding of a certain subject. This in depth understanding will be reached in a dialogue between people who have read the books/took attention to other sources. The dialogue will only take one month and will be prepared for a year. During the month a paper will be written collectively. Any dissagreements can be resolved in footnotes. Not the paper itself, but the dialogue and the subsequent acquiring of knowledge is the main goal of the project. Maybe other users have a different idea behind this project if they want to join. Any suggestions for an understandable name which could appeal to a wider public?--Daanschr 08:08, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

 * How about Reading for Insight ? —Moulton 12:23, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Sounds good. But, i discussed with Erkan Yilmaz that other sources other than those that can be read, could be used in this project. Sources like audio. I think the name issue requires some time.--Daanschr 21:55, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Insightful Inquiry ? —Moulton 00:03, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I am in for that one.--Daanschr 07:06, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

 * There are book clubs where everyone is supposed to read the same book and then once a month they meet to talk about the book. On wikipedia, go to a popular article or forum you are interested in and talk about the subject and you can get the same kind of discussion. I think you need to go where the people already are. The web is not short of talk forums. In some of them, people actually know what they are talking about. You have to find the right place and people. WAS 4.250 08:29, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

I discovered that articles which i liked didn't have much discussion going on on Wikipedia. A book club would be a nice idea. I have searched for it sometimes. I like non-fiction, but most book clubs seem to be about fiction.--Daanschr 10:11, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Can you tell us more about what specific topics or books you have in mind at this time? —Moulton 11:47, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

 * If you mean at this time for this project than my answer is that it requires a collective decision. A problem on Wikiversity is that users start with a topic on their own, and don't have enough people to join. I want to start with a group which commits itself to a certain time schedule and participance and which starts something with a specific end. The last thing is very important because after something has been finished, something new can arise, thereby flexibility and creativity are ensured. A major problem i have with Wikipedia is that articles remain for eternity, which makes long-term conflicts and deterioration due to lack of interest possible. A main issue for me is how to keep the activity running on a certain level of quality. Therefore, communities could be created which have the right structure to be successfull.

 * My personal interests are history, philosophy and politics, but i like oter topics as well, though i have limited knowledge of them.

 * At the moment Wiki-related learning is a topic. Former topics were 'Friedrich Nietzsche', 'John Stuart Mill' and 'Why did the west dominate the world instead of China?'. The present topic has been started on the instigation of Erkan, i started the former three.--Daanschr 22:07, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

 * What about something like topic:intellectual dialogues, dialogues on literature or topic:dialogues ? Hillgentleman|Talk 02:11, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the suggestions Hillgentleman.--Daanschr 07:08, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Setting an agenda
I will change the Thucydides reading group with Erkan, without conforming entirely to the format of this project. I will wait for new participants in the meanwhile, who are willing to start with a subject. If nobody comes, than that would be fine. So, this could be the last message here perhaps, if nobody comes.--Daanschr 10:15, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I'd like to see an active "demonstration project" for "study before editing". I have nothing against the Thucydides reading group, but I think it would be useful to try to identify a Wikiversity study area that would be of interest to more Wikipedians. Maybe it is time to "advertise" Wikipedia studies. I think Wikiversity should start a project designed to actively recruit wiki editors who become frustrated by the limitations of Wikipedia. Alternatively, we could pick any popular (and controversial) Wikipedia page where there is a real lack of scholarship and try to improve it...invite Wikipedian's to come over here and help with a scholarly literature review and study project aimed at improving the targeted Wikipedia page.--JWSchmidt 12:00, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Drawing from the list of atrocious BLPs and related articles that I previously compiled at the express request of Jimbo Wales, I nominate these two for study here:

 * David Berlinski BLP, an utter travesty if I ever saw one.

 * Icons of Evolution, which can't even cite a bibliographic entry correctly without a protracted edit war on how best to write a hatchet job.

 * Moulton 13:28, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

Great to have you both on board! What a name change can do to a project. I agree with John to start picking popular Wikipedia pages, since it is my intention to increase the amount of participants for this projects. evolution theory and Intelligent Design could be a first topic, in which a whole collective of articles can be discussed, including the two that you mention, Moulton. A problem with this topic could be that scientific data is highly controversial. There are many topics on Wikipedia of which the scientific data is not-controversial, but where the articles dedicated to a topic are of a poor quality.--Daanschr 12:42, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Legally and scientifically there is no controversy about intelligent design. It has been ruled in a court of law to be creationism dressed up to try to get around the separation of church and state. Scientifically it is by definition not science as it can not be experimentally dis-proven. All science ever does is disprove ideas and whatever is left is what might be true. By doing this for centuries science has narrowed down what might be true to some extremely restricted models of the universe. Note the fundamental difference is scientific and religious behavior. Science seeks to find where the models of reality break down. Religion looks for confirmation they are right. Science, being based on evidence, changes with new evidence. Religion based on faith is proud of not changing its opinion even in the face of evidence. (God is testing you; God works in mysterious ways; that's a miracle.) Now note the difference in results. Science is what allows man to go to the moon. Religion gives emotional support to the faithful. Different tools for different jobs. The tool to use to understand biology is science. WAS 4.250 14:01, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

 * That might be true for physical science, but i don't think it is true for social science. In my view science is about asking questions. Within science, there are disciplines, each dedicated to find answers for specific questions. In mathematics, questions can be indefinitely answered. There are many disciplines within science where mathematics plays a large role, and where questions can be answered with only one good answer. In other disciplines, there are multiple good answers on a single question. In these disciplines, the whole story of the topic, the question and the answers have to be understood in order to figure out which answers are better than others.--Daanschr 14:09, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Was4.250, can you provide us with a clear statement of which hypothesis of "intelligent design" you are talking about so we can study the claim that "it is by definition not science as it can not be experimentally dis-proven"? I wonder if you are thinking about a straw-man version of an "intelligent design" hypothesis that can be said to be "by definition not science". Study exercise 1: name a Nobel Prize-winning biologist who formulated and published a theory of "intelligent design". Question: if "intelligent design" was good enough for a Nobel Prize-winning biologist to study, are we so sure that it is by definition not science? Study exercise 2: One of the concerns of many scientists who have worked in the area of "intelligent design" is the problem called "irreducible complexity". Why are scientists such as Eugene Koonin stimulated in their scientific research by the problem of irreducible complexity? Is Koonin an anti-science crank because he studies irreducible complexity? If the study of "intelligent design" stimulates the scientific research efforts of working scientists, are we so sure that it is not a useful part of science? --JWSchmidt 14:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I am myself an atheist. The existence of god is impossible, because it can't exist geographically.

The controversiality of this topic already shows itself in this discussion. If this is to be a topic within the format of this project, than we should all try to find literature, give titles of books to each other and have a preliminary discussion within a few months. After a year of reading and discussing we can edit articles on Wikipedia dedicated to this and related topics.

Religion can be very diverse. It doesn't have to be exclusive. There are many christians and muslims who don't take the Bible or the Quran literally, and can therefore be positive about science. Science would be completely inclusive within taoism, perhaps also buddhism.

I agree that Intelligent Design is a way of conservative christians in America to dismantle science and to make christianity cool again instead of science. However spending a lot of time on it can be counterproductive for the defenders of science. I was in america for a day this year in Atlanta. I went to the Fulton Library, a major library in the centre of the city, which showed clear signs of being administered by very conservative christians. There was a desk in an empty room with some 100 books there with the sign 'with our special recommendation' or something like that. 1/3 of the books were on the topic of breaking the code, meaning the code in the novel The Da Vinci Code. 2/3 of the books were on pope Benedict XVI. There were also two books from Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins (The God Delusion). My theory about the presence of the last two books is that these books are about god, allthough they deny the existence of god. So these books of atheists could make people christian, especially since the other 98 defended christianity. In a discussion on Intelligent Design, it doesn't matter whether people are against it. The discussion itself gives new attention to god and the Bible.

I come from a continent where atheism is stronger than christianity, so i don't mind to discuss ID, but i do like it if the discussion can be more on trying to understand the kind of arguments writers try to make instead of defending a certain position in a virtual trench warfare.--Daanschr 15:20, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Daanschr, I have three questions for you about beliefs:

 * Do you believe you have a body?
 * Do you believe your body has a brain?
 * Do you believe your brain has a mind?

 * Moulton 22:50, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I used to be confused on how consciousness works a couple of years ago. A girlfriend of mine wanted me to follow a course at the faculty of philosophy and there i heard about what Nietzsche wrote on consciousness. This girlfriend was in her first year of philosophy and i was studying at the university, so i was allowed to follow courses at every faculty.

My answer will be very influenced by the philosophy of Nietzsche, but i don't know if i can explain it very well. Body, brain and mind are words that we learn from other humans. Thanks to our communication with others, we learn about our identity. But communication is much more than words, body language is far more important. Words, like body brain and mind, can be used to defend the views of a collective of human beings. These can be very one-sided and self destructive. By focusing continuously on one-sided information in order to keep a group together, we become blind for the many-sided aspects of (nature, Nietzsche would never use this word, i think). Words like body, brain and mind presume to be units, while they are not. A body is part of a larger whole and exists out of smaller parts, the same accounts for the brain and the mind. So, the answer is three times no.--Daanschr 07:18, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

 * May I conclude from your answer that you would not be concerned about losing your body, losing your brain, or losing your mind? —Moulton 07:27, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

 * I think he merely means that using those words obscures more than reveals. For example is the dead skin or the bacteria in your gut that creates needed vitamins or dissolved gasses in your blood or a virus within a cell of yours or the oxygen diffusing though your lung tissue part of your body? Are your fingers' nerves, your heart's electrical system, your fight or flight glands and their secretions part of your brain? Are choices made by your liver cells, your stomach nerve cells or your spinal column part of your mind? WAS 4.250 07:38, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

 * All you seem to be saying is that these are "fuzzy sets" where the boundary is not "crisp". I long ago advanced from "crisp sets" to "fuzzy sets" in more real-world applications of set theory.  Having said that, let me rephrase my questions to Daanschr to expressly employ the mathematical notion of a fuzzy set.

 * Do you believe there is a fuzzy set corresponding to what is colloquially referred to as "your body"?
 * Do you believe that the above fuzzy set includes a fuzzy subset colloquially reffered to as "your brain"?
 * Do you believe that above fuzzy set is the locus of (perhaps fuzzy) operation of a fuzzy set colloquially known as "your mind"?

 * Moulton 07:56, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

No ;-) --Daanschr 08:19, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

 * If you deny the existence of (a theoretical model of) body, brain, and mind, what, pray tell do you affirm? —Moulton 13:33, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

 * I only temporarily affirm the existence of something, knowing that another interpretation could be correct as well. I don't affirm anything indefinitely, knowing that too much focus on the details makes it harder to see the wider image.--Daanschr 15:05, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, I get that your degree of belief in any given thesis is a continuously varying function of time, ranging from zero (definitely false) to one (definitely true), with Bayesian updates as evidence and reasoning are weighed in the balance, as Tom Kailath suggested. Do you, at this time, currently have a non-zero degree of belief in the existence of (an internal theoretical model of) your own body, your own brain, and your own mind? —Moulton 10:01, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes and no. It depends on the definition of the words body, brain and mind and on the story and framework where this words are going to belong to.--Daanschr 10:28, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Your internal (time-evolving) mental model of the concepts bearing the nominative labels, body/brain/mind, are whatever current concepts you are entertaining as the perceived meaning (for you) of those nominative labels. —Moulton 15:55, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Definitions according to the Cambridge dictionary:
 * 1) Body:
 * 2) The whole physical structure that forms a person or animal.
 * 3) The main part of a person's or animal's body, without the head, or without the head, arms and legs.
 * 4) A dead person.
 * 5) OLD-FASHIONED a person.
 * 6) The painted metal shell of a vehicle, such as a car or an aircraft.
 * 7) A group of people who have joined together for a particular reason.
 * 8) A large amount of something.
 * 9) FORMAL A body of water is a large area of water, such as a lake.
 * 10) A separate object or mass.
 * 11) A strong or thick quality.
 * 12) The main part of a book, article, etc.
 * 13) The main part of a large building.
 * 14) The body politic: all the people of a particular country under a particular government.
 * 15) Brain:
 * 16) The organ inside the head that controls thought, memory, feelings and activity.
 * 17) Used to refer to intelligence.
 * 18) INFORMAL a very intelligent person, especially one who has spent a lot of time studying.
 * 19) To brain: to hit someone on the head.
 * 20) Brained: having a particular type of brain.
 * 21) Brained: DISAPPROVING used in various phrases to describe someone as stupid or badly organized.
 * 22) Mind:
 * 23) The part of a person that enables a person to think, feel emotions and be aware of things.
 * 24) A very clever person.
 * 25) To mind: to be careful of, or give attention to something.
 * 26) To mind (out): used to tell someone to move or be careful, or to warn them of danger.
 * 27) To mind: to take care of someone or something.
 * 28) (used in questions and negatives) to be annoyed or worried by something.--Daanschr 07:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

Step 1
Picking an article or a couple of articles on Wikipedia. My ideas (depending on what other participants want):
 * Intelligent Design
 * History of the World: An article which has hardly any sources and of which the main structure was made by me
 * Some physical science related article: Many articles are hard to understand for non-experts.--Daanschr 07:18, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Topic has been picked, see front page.--Daanschr 17:30, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Primary and secondary literature
I would like to make a difference between primary and secondary literature or sources. The primary literature can be put on the front page and have as goal to be read by anyone who joins. Secondary literature or sources can be anything users want to add. The users have their own responsibility to notify the importance and use for these literature or sources. The tricky part is how to determine which literature or sources are good enough to be considered as primary literature. It could be an issue which can result on edit warring. Therefore, i propose to keep the list short and to try to come with sources which can have a certain academic status. If there is too much conflict, than only handbooks can be put on the list.--Daanschr 17:35, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

With primary and secondary literature, i don't mean the difference between sources (primary) and analysis of sources (secondary). It can be better described as literature on the reading list, or literature outside the reading list.--Daanschr 17:37, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Recent developments
Jimbo Wales asked to block Moulton. This can have an effect on this project. Since Moulton is one of the main contributors at the moment. I propose to wait for a month to see how things will develop.--Daanschr 16:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

We could continue with the precent topic, but i still haven't got a job and want to take care of that first.--Daanschr 19:00, 15 October 2008 (UTC)


text:
User:Rhmccullough

user page for Rhmccullough

Useful Links

 * MKR
 * User_talk:Abd
 * User:Rhmccullough/Sandbox
 * User:Rhmccullough/Sandbox/mKR

title: User:Rhmccullough


text:
User:Rhmccullough/Sandbox

Sandbox for Rhmccullough

title: User:Rhmccullough/Sandbox


text:
MKR

mKR is a high-level programming language which supports the knowledge representation primitives required to create, edit and search knowledge bases. It follows the procedural programming paradigm, using variables and procedures, but also makes use of naturalistic words and phrases, as well as the epistemological notions of definition and context.

mKE (my Knowledge Explorer) is an intelligent knowledge base assistant -- a computer program which communicates using the mKR language.

Introduction
I am User:Rhmccullough, AKA Dr. Richard H. McCullough, AKA Dick McCullough. I have always been interested in Artificial Intelligence and Epistemology, but my work at Bell Labs was mostly focused on electronics and software development. After I retired from Bell Labs, I devoted my time and energy to designing a new knowledge representation language, mKR (my Knowledge Representation). mKE (my Knowledge Explorer) is an interactive program which interprets mKR statements, questions and commands and records the results in mKB (my Knowledge Base). The "my" adjective emphasizes the focus on personal context, adjusted to fit any situation and purpose.

I wrote my first mKR program in 1996. I implemented mKE using the Unicon language, and executed it on my own personal computer running the UNIX operating system. As mKR and mKE evolved, I created a website with free downloads of mKE, and ported mKE to Windows and Mac OS X. In 2014, I started a non-profit company, Context Knowledge Systems, to continue the development and support of mKR and mKE.

The purpose of this resource is to show you how to use mKR for practical applications. After some brief remarks about mKR design philosophy and special features, you will find an expanding collection of specific examples. The Context Knowledge Systems website includes a complete definition of mKR, an mKR/mKE tutorial, and complete source code for mKE.Rhmccullough (discuss • contribs) 16:00, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Design features

 * Simple English

mKR's syntax is similar to English, simplified so that the same name is used regardless of tense and number, verbs are always in the infinitive, and attributes always take the first person singular. Starting with mKR's built-in vocabulary, which includes all Natural Semantic Metalanguage concepts, the user adds his own English words and phrases. These features make mKR easy to use.

 * UNIX shell

From the UNIX shell, mKR inherits the conceptual and syntax elements of variables, methods, conditionals, iteration and wildcards. These features give mKR its computational power.

 * Context

mKR "implements" the context theories of Ayn Rand and Keith Devlin. The basic mKR statement takes the form

in context { subject verb object pplist; };

context (aka situation) names a list of sentences, which logically define the context. pplist is an optional list of preposition phrase modifiers.

mKR uses entity-property-sentence hierarchies as a visual aid in grasping the meaning of knowledge, and as a primary means of input/output. For example, see the myhi hierarchy in the next section. These features give mKR the power to enhance the Real Intelligence of its user.

Special features
The brief examples given below illustrate some special features of mKR.

 * relation

address book is relation with relType = (person, email, phone), meaning = {$1 has email = $2, has phone = $3;}, relKey = "$1"; begin relation address book; rel Dick McCullough, rhm@PioneerCa.com, 707-255-3093; rel John Doe, john@PioneerCA.com, 209-555-1212; rel Jane Doe, jane@PioneerCA.com, 209-555-1212; end relation address book;

do dbopen od address book, relation, gdbm; # open GDBM table containing relation do write relation od address book;        # write address book ? has phone = 209-555-1212;               # find person(s) with phone number

 * hierarchy

begin hierarchy myhi; ho 0,  U:existent; ho 1,     entity; ho 2,         hierarchy; ho 2,         relation; ho 2,         view; ho 2,         person; ho 3,             u:Dick McCullough; ho 3,             u:John Doe; ho 3,             u:Jane Doe; ho 2,         organization; ho 3,             u:Context Knowledge Systems; ho 3,             u:Wikiversity; ho 2,         animal; ho 2,         plant; ho 2,         thing; ho 3,             u:mKE; ho 1,     property; ho 2,         attribute; ho 3,             space; ho 3,             time; ho 2,         part; ho 2,         action; ho 3,             method; ho 1,     sentence; ho 2,         context; ho 2,         statement; ho 2,         question; ho 2,         command; ho 2,         assignment; ho 2,         conditional; ho 2,         iteration; ho 2,         group; end hierarchy myhi;

do dbopen od myhi, hierarchy, gdbm;    # open GDBM table containing hierarchy do write hierarchy od myhi;            # write hierarchy in outline format in hierarchy = myhi { person isc* ?; }; # display subhierarchy

! ls $DBDIR;                             # list the GDBM tables ! rm $DBDIR/myhi*;                       # remove the myhi hierarchy ! webdir http://mkrmke.net/knowledge/  # list files in web directory cks := http://ContextKnowledgeSystems.org/CKS.html; ! boilerpipe $cks;                       # extract text from web page ! wordbag $cks;                          # word count of web page
 * UNIX shell commands

mKR special properties: is, do, ho, rel, meaning
is is used to state aliases and definitions alias is concept; concept is genus with differentia;

do is used to describe actions and commands agent do action ppList; do command ppList;

ho is used to define a hierarchy unit ho level, concept;

rel is used to define a relation unit rel value_1, value_2, ..., value_n;

meaning is used to define the interpretation/translation of a relation unit or a method execution meaning = { sentence_1; sentence_2; ..., sentence_n; }

Ambiguity
gsu representation of hierarchy gsu[concept] := GSU(g, s, u); g is set of all genus (generalization) of concept s is set of all species (specialization) of concept u is set of all unit (instance) of concept

ambiguity of a concept, sentence, or hierarchy A := sum(log(*g)) where *g denotes the size of the genus set

Tree structured lattice has minimum ambiguity = 0

Fully connected lattice has maximum ambiguity = N log(N)

Genealogy
introduction The genealogy application illustrates several important issues to consider in any application. 1. identify the essential relations 2. implement the "meaning" procedures 3. permanent storage of results 4. standard interface to other programs

knowledge model The four essential relations are birth-death marriage-divorce parent-child aka See aka.rel, birth.rel, child.rel, marriage.rel, family.mkr. Additional information such as    address, phone, email education occupation can be included. See note.rel, address.rel, phone.rel, school.rel, work.rel

Unicon procedures The initial implementation of meaning procedures can use mKR methods. The high level mKR sentences can be easily changed to match your evolving notions of how the knowledge relations will be used. Then you can use the mKR "clock" command to measure execution times and decide if you want to use any Unicon procedures. mKE uses Unicon procedures for the four essential relations. See aka.icn, birth.icn, child.icn, marriage.icn. GDBM tables As the size of the knowledge base increases, processing time increases, and you may want to save the results in permanent storage. mKR uses the standard database interfaces of Unicon for this purpose. GDBM is a simple database which is included with Windows, Linux and Mac OS X operating systems. See hoio.icn, mkr_table.icn.

standard GEDCOM file There are commercial Genealogy programs which can search many sources of additional information. For example, the Family Tree Maker 2014 available from Ancestry.com searches public records, newspapaers, and other family trees. In order to take advantage of these specialized programs, mKE reads and writes standard GEDCOM files. See ged_read.icn, ged_write.icn.

family tree mKE creates a person hierarchy using the mKR statements child iss mother; child iss father; This simple hierarchy allows you to use all the standard mKE commands for searching and displaying hierarchies. For example p := do find od richard h with value in familytree; in hierarchy = familytree; $p isa**n ?; # display n generations of ancestors $p isc* ?;   # display all descendants

title: MKR


text:
BCP/Cuphea hyssopifolia

Cuphea hyssopifolia

title: BCP/Cuphea hyssopifolia


text:
BCP/Cuphea hyssopifolia/Logs

2008 Logs

 * (no archived logs yet)

Recent Logs

 * SBJ 13:09, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

title: BCP/Cuphea hyssopifolia/Logs


text:
User:SBJ/Produce clock

Produce clock notes:

Project: to log when seasonal produce is available in different regions.

Goal: to develop a database where "localvores" and others interested in local food can find what's in season

Data crunching: similar to the bloom clock, following the global-temperate season model

Participants:
 * localvores
 * gardeners
 * farmers
 * culinary professionals and students

Definitions:
 * log pages for groups, not specific varieties (e.g., "slicing tomatoes", not 'Brandywine', 'Big Boy', etc.)
 * log only outdoor, soil-grown crops (not hydroponic or greenhouse)

Development:
 * Organize to develop Cookbook chapters on use of ingredients
 * Organize to develop garden book chapters on growing produce, perhaps also "encyclopedias" of specific varieties of crops (similar to the Apples book.)

Outreach:
 * Pdf files for outreach to farmers, localvores

title: User:SBJ/Produce clock


text:
User talk:SBJ/Produce clock

I like the idea (and vocabulary - I'd never heard "localvore" before!). Pardon my ignorance, but does produce really vary significantly year to year? Cormaggio talk 14:34, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I wonder: localvore? I don't know that it would change from year to year (though it may over decades if the globe does indeed warm), but this is more just aimed at creating a database that connects seasons from one region to another so that, e.g., if we have data from Manchester, Philadelphia, Melbourne, and Tokyo, we would eventually be able to correlate it so that if baby spinach is available in April in Philadelphia, it will be available at the corresponding mini-season in the other regions. Eventually this will lead to a simple way of talking about when foods are in season for use in wikipedia articles and other resources which need a "geographically neutral language" to describe such things (the bloom clock is moving towards a similar goal for flowering time). --SB_Johnny | talk 14:50, 25 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Another problem I'd anticipate is whether the consumer can tell if what they're being sold is soil-grown, or from a greenhouse. Obviously, this type of clock would suit people who themselves produce fruit/veg or who have access to organic or farmers markets - will it be readily accessible to those who don't? Cormaggio talk 17:26, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:SBJ/Produce clock


text:
User:Mehran Mangrio

 * My name is Qadeer Mangrio.
 * I am Sindhi.
 * I am a student of Science and I like World History & Knowledge presented here on Wikipedia.
 * I will do my best for Wikipedia, contributing articles about places and personalities not listed in Wikipedia's articles already.
 * I am Qadeer Mangrio from Hyderabad, Sindh and am a student.
 * I want to be a cooperative and helpful Person, and you will know all about me by reading my choices that are given below.

EDUCATION

Now I am doing B.Sc., and Primary(V) from my village.
 * I completed my Class of XII in 2006.
 * Inter (XII) Science in Grade "B",
 * Matric(X) Science in Grade "A",
 * I Passed (VIII)Middle classes from Hyderabad,

Passion & Intrest

 * Wikipedia is my passion.
 * My Interest is reading all the worthy books that develop skills and knowledge. I like playing cricket, watching movies, making friends, and getting together with them.

Contact

 * Webpage: Mangrio
 * E-mail: trighati07@yahoo.com
 * Cell:   0300-3010998

title: User:Mehran Mangrio


text:
User talk:SBJ/Produce clock/template

This template is used for adding identification characteristics on Bloom Clock Profiles. The data collected on this template adds categories which are used to create dichotomous keys.

New page version:

title: User talk:SBJ/Produce clock/template


text:
ATP mentor training/Fine-tuning an individual curriculum

Introduction
One of the foremost goals of a mentor should be the fine-tuning of an individual curriculum. If a school does not support individual curricula or has only a very limited system of elective subjects a mentor should cooperate with other mentors and parents to improve the situation. For the purpose a mentoring organisation can be formed and can collect its own tuition fees, if necessary. An assistant teacher program can introduce tuition fees that should be available to fund mentoring goals. Parent participation can help to reduce costs and can promote community building.

Developing an appropriate individual curriculum can also involve private teachers and extracurricular activities completely unrelated to school, which should be funded by smaller groups of parents or individually by parents for their children.

Meetings with the protégé
A mentor should at least meet once or twice a month with the protégé to assess the current situation, to learn about recent events and accomplishments or to discuss the development of the individual curriculum with the protégé.

Recommended reading are chapters 4 to 6 of the CMAD Mentor Trainer's Manual.


text: Category:Psychiatry

title: Category:Psychiatry


text:
User:Drkunal123/Anesthesiology

Golden points Anesthesia

1) AMBU Bag stands for Artificial Maneuver Breathing unit.

2) Cyclopropane cylinders is Orange.

3) ENTONOX cylinders colour : Blue body with blue and white shoulder.

4) Spinal cord extents from medulla oblongata to lower border of L1 in adult and lower border of L3 in infants and neonates.

5) Guedels stages of ether anesthesia: a) Stage 1 Analgesia b) Stage 2 delirium c) Stage 3 Surgical anesthesia d) Stage 4 medullary paralysis

6) Most cardiostable Anesthetic Agent: Etomidate. 7) Most cardiostable Inhalational Agent : Isofurance. 7.1)Most cerebrostable inhalation Agent : Sevoflurance. 8) Dextrose fluid is never used 8n Resuscitation.

9) Most common needle used for Epidural block is Tuohys Needle.

10) Mallampati grading is used for assessment of size of Toungue for Laryngoscopy ,also for assessment of difficult airway during orotracheal/ nasotracheal Intubation.

11) Potency of Inhalational Agent is determined by MAC( Minimum alveolar concentration)

12) Induction Agent of choice for Children : Sevoflurance.

13) Successful sign of Spinal anesthesia : Flaccid and engorged penis (Reason Nervi ergentis paralysis).

14) Protein intake in ICU : 1-1,5 g/kg/day

title: User:Drkunal123/Anesthesiology


text: Template:Changed policy

title: Template:Changed policy


text:
User:Po

A perception, sudden as blinking, that subject and object are one, will lead to a deeply mysterious understanding; and by this understanding you will awaken to the truth. ~ Huangbo Xiyun ~

title: User:Po


text:
User talk:Po

A perception, sudden as blinking, that subject and object are one, will lead to a deeply mysterious understanding; and by this understanding you will awaken to the truth. ~ Huangbo Xiyun

title: User talk:Po


text: Category:Cardiovascular medicine

title: Category:Cardiovascular medicine


text: Category:Urology

title: Category:Urology


text: Category:Pediatric Medicine

title: Category:Pediatric Medicine


text: Help:Redirects

title: Help:Redirects


text: Category:Stress

title: Category:Stress


text:
Help:Wikify

To "wikify" is to apply good wiki style and categorisation to content.

title: Help:Wikify


text:
Template:Help-stub

This adds page to Category:Help stubs.

title: Template:Help-stub


text:
Category:Help stubs

Use of Template:Help-stub will add a page to this category.

title: Category:Help stubs


text:
Category talk:Help stubs

Stumped
OK, I'm stumped, why isn't Template:Help-stub adding to Category:Help stubs? e.g., Help:Wikify should be listed. -- Jtneill - Talk 02:17, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

title: Category talk:Help stubs


text:
Motivational interviewing

Motivational interviewing was developed by William Miller and Stephen Rollnick as a counseling approach to helping clients discover their own desire to change unhealthy behaviors. The work of MI begain in chemical dependancy but it has been found to be useful in other forms psychotherapy.

title: Motivational interviewing


text: Category:Psychotherapy

title: Category:Psychotherapy


text:
Social psychology (psychology)/Subpages

This page provides automatically lists of categorised Wikiversity content related to Social psychology (psychology).

title: Social psychology (psychology)/Subpages


text:
User:Jtneill/Research

Publications

Profiles

 * Google Scholar
 * ORCID
 * Pure (University of Canberra)

Projects

 * 1) Adventure therapy
 * 2) Collaboration, open research and the commons
 * 3) Coping effectiveness
 * 4) Fitspiration
 * 5) Flexible delivery methods and achievement of learning outcomes in psychology
 * 6) Green exercise - What are the stress and mood effects of green exercise? To what extent are these effects attributable to individual psychological-, activity-, or environment-related variables?

 * 1) Internationalisation of curriculum - ALTC IaH research projects
 * 2) Internationalisation of online learning resources
 * 3) Life effectiveness and outdoor education
 * 4) Life effectiveness questionnaire
 * 5) Mess and neatness
 * 6) Open academia - Academics' motivations, attitudes and behaviours towards openness of access, licensing, formats for research, teaching and service
 * 7) Open academic practice and Excellence in Research Australia - Review of ERA discipline journal list with regard to openness criteria with approx. 6 other UC academics
 * 8) Openness of ERA psychology journal review – data collection for A* journals
 * 9) Outdoor education - Theory, processes and outcomes including life effectiveness, health and well-being (Health and well-being impacts of Outward Bound 9-day expedition programs with adolescents)
 * 10) Outdoor education and development of a growth mindset

 * 1) Psychology of nature scenes - What are the mood effects of digitally presented natural vs. urban scenes?
 * 2) Psychology of online social networking - What motivates engagement in OSN behaviour? What are the associated thoughts and feelings about OSN behaviour?

title: User:Jtneill/Research


text:
User talk:CptStabs

Hello, welcome around here. I hope we can help you succeed in your learning goals. Below more info about Wikiversity, Erkan Yilmaz uses the Chat (try) 06:36, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

 Hello CptStabs, and welcome to Wikiversity! If you need help, feel free to visit my talk page, or contact us and ask questions. After you leave a comment on a talk page, remember to sign and date; it helps everyone follow the threads of the discussion. The signature icon in the edit window makes it simple. To get started, you may

 * Take a guided tour and learn to edit;
 * Explore our learning projects;
 * Browse our portals, schools, and research activities;

 * [ Ask] a question or discuss Wikiversity issues at the Colloquium;
 * Read and help develop our community policies；or
 * Chat with other Wikiversitans on #wikiversity-en.

And don't forget to explore Wikiversity with the links to your left. Be bold to contribute and to experiment with the sandbox or your userpage, and see you around Wikiversity! Erkan Yilmaz uses the Chat (try) 06:36, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:CptStabs


text:
User:Ï

i am ï

title: User:Ï


text:
User talk:Ï

i am ï

title: User talk:Ï


text:
User:Ybit

I'm often found on #wikiversity and #wikipedia on Freenode IRC.

title: User:Ybit


text:
User:Afas1407~enwikiversity

Hello !! Welcome to my page, I'm AFAS_1407 ,which resembles the 1st letters of my full name and the 1407 is the year I born in Islamic calendar = 1987, and you are welcome to visit my page at any time. I'm studying Medicine (4th year) at King Faisal University,Dammam, Saudi Arabia.

title: User:Afas1407~enwikiversity


text:
Wikiversity:Meetings/Learning on Wikiversity

This is a series of meetings in order to discuss learning on Wikiversity.

Previous meetings

 * 3rd June, 2008 (synopsis), and log
 * 7th June, 2008 (synopsis), and log


text:
Wikiversity:Meetings/Learning on Wikiversity/07June2008/log

This is a log of an IRC meeting on 7th June, 2008 to discuss learning on Wikiversity.

experiences at the Bloom Clock project
[7:05pm] SB_Johnny: ok, can we start?

[7:05pm] cormaggio: so, last meeting summary at: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Meetings/Learning_on_Wikiversity

[7:05pm] lajla:

[7:05pm] cormaggio: ok :-)

[7:06pm] SB_Johnny: cormaggio said I can have the floor, so I wanted to start with some insights on how to get momentum behind a learning effort

[7:06pm] cormaggio: so SB_Johnny - do you want to raise issues about the Bloom Clock ?

[7:06pm] SB_Johnny: well, not per se

[7:06pm] cormaggio: ok - momentum - this could be interesting

[7:07pm] SB_Johnny: but as background, I'll say that the BC has really been taking off over the past couple months, and not only am I proud of the result, but I'm proud that other people are just as proud as me :)

[7:07pm] cormaggio: just to remind everyone: the purpose of these meetings is to discuss 'learning in Wikiversity' - what it means, how it's done, problems encountered, action-steps proposed

[7:08pm] SB_Johnny: but thar's the rub. it took 2 years of (often lonely) effort to get it really rolling

[7:08pm] cormaggio: yep - the Bloom Clock is a great example of a collaborative effort - I'm just sorry i haven't been contributing this spring/summer :-(

[7:08pm] SB_Johnny: unlike a lot of you, my "roots" are as a Wikibookian, not a Wikipedian

[7:09pm] SB_Johnny: well, it wasn't a collaboration at first, that's the point

[7:09pm] SB_Johnny: I worked on it alone for about a year before any serious new contributors arrived

[7:10pm] cormaggio: so, did contributors just "arrive", or did you solicit them elsewhere?

[7:10pm] SB_Johnny: and i guess that's all I really want to say about that: if you're expecting to be working in a wikipedia-like atmosphere (where random people just stop in and edit), you're going to be a bit sad

[7:11pm] SB_Johnny: but if you are just concentrating on improving the content, eventually people will be attracted to it

[7:11pm] cormaggio: a theme of Wikiversity participation has been playing the waiting game..

[7:12pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: word of mouth popaganda also could play a role - it just takes some time to find the right people

[7:12pm] SB_Johnny: no, I think the only person I solicited is Jomegat, but I know him and knew he would like it :)

[7:12pm] SB_Johnny: yes, exactly

[7:12pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: from de.WV there is now also a person who participates at BCP and also uses some ideas from it at de.WV

[7:12pm] SB_Johnny: waiting game

[7:12pm] cormaggio: cf. Juan's posting of Daan's comment: "On Wikiversity, there are too many startups of only one person who is waiting for others to join."

[7:13pm] SB_Johnny: but also using our status as a wikimedia project

[7:13pm] SB_Johnny: try googling "bloom clock", for example :)

[7:13pm] • Erkan_Yilmaz tries

[7:13pm] cormaggio: Erkan - how is this person using BC's ideas in de.wv?

[7:14pm] SB_Johnny: cormaggio: that's the issue... you can't waste time *waiting*

[7:14pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: he was new at de.WV and started some pages, but missed participation for his idea (he studied geoecology)

[7:14pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: I gave him a link to SB_Johnny's BCP

[7:14pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: and he was fascinated

[7:14pm] cormaggio: 1st hit on Google - I'm impressed Johnny :-)

[7:14pm] SB_Johnny: heh

[7:15pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: and now he is still busy with "his" project at de.WV - implementing technical ideas: e.g. asks about bots and how to implement GPRS positions

[7:15pm] SB_Johnny: well, we're the first hit on google because of the number of uses of w:Template:Wikiversity-bc

[7:15pm] wikiversilinky3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Wikiversity-bc

[7:15pm] cormaggio: right

[7:15pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: and what that guy does also is: using e.g. this request to identify idea

[7:15pm] SB_Johnny: that template will hopefully start reflecting bloom seasons this winter

[7:16pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: he does it for soil not plants

[7:16pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: err: identify idea -> identify soil

[7:16pm] SB_Johnny: thus allowing wikipedia to have a global language for bloom time without needing to engage in "OR"

[7:16pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: that is the page: de:Projekt:Atlas der Blütenpflanzen incompatible encoding

[7:16pm] wikiversilinky3: http://de.wikiversity.org/wiki/Projekt:Atlas_der_Bl%EF%BF%BDtenpflanzen

[7:16pm] SB_Johnny: huh

[7:16pm] cormaggio: but here's a rub for you Johnny - you are very knowledgeable on plants - by your example, people need to be knowledgeable to get the content to a stage where others will be interested.... for discussion...

[7:17pm] SB_Johnny: can he negotiate in English?

[7:17pm] SB_Johnny: cormaggio: yes, I think you need a teacher first

[7:18pm] SB_Johnny: but the BC is at the point now where anyone with eyes can participate

[7:18pm] cormaggio: right - I've always been interested in whether people can explore learning paths, and develop learning communities, from a very "naive" stance (for want of a better word)

[7:18pm] SB_Johnny: (eyes and a computer and internet access, I mean)

[7:18pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: so how about when a disabled/blind person wanna join ? but I guess most of WV's content is not good for disabled :-)

[7:18pm] SB_Johnny: I think that's more difficult

[7:19pm] cormaggio: well, I don't mean to take the rug from your feet SB_Johnny :-) - I just want to widen the discussion..

[7:19pm] SB_Johnny: well Erkan, the BC's keys are pretty much useless to people without broadband as well

[7:19pm] SB_Johnny: ok, I'm done my spiel anyway :)

[7:19pm] cormaggio: I still think we've a lot to learn from your own experiences - on your own terms..

[7:19pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: did you think to make it available in print form like e.g. wikibooks?

[7:20pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: some PDF for download

[7:20pm] SB_Johnny: yes, it's printable, more or less

[7:20pm] SB_Johnny: though I could make it more printable

[7:20pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: easy printable ? so I go somewhere click: print and then I get the actual pictures so far ?

[7:20pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: I mean: actual status of the project as pdf

[7:21pm] SB_Johnny: well, I printed one of the keys

[7:21pm] SB_Johnny: oh

[7:21pm] cormaggio: As a caveat - i think BCP could still be made more user-friendly...

[7:21pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: then e.g. someone could print and use while exploring nature

[7:21pm] SB_Johnny: well, maybe a printout could be generated for northern-hemisphere people in January, southern-hemisphere people in July...

[7:22pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: yes

[7:22pm] SB_Johnny: yeah, BCP needs a lot more instruction manuals, or perhaps just a few more instructors

[7:22pm] cormaggio: hmm, what format is the data printed in? could people get the data in different formats with a bit of tweaking on the back-end?

[7:23pm] SB_Johnny: I've been trying to write some lately... it's pretty clear that I can't be the "professor" any more due to the ever-growing number of participants

[7:23pm] cormaggio: SB_Johnny - I think i could probably be of more use to you as a user-friendly helper than a data logger..

[7:23pm] • SB_Johnny wonders why we're talking about print versions... I thought that was more a Wikibooks thing

[7:24pm] atglenn joined the chat room.

[7:24pm] atglenn: late again as usual

[7:24pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: :-) well when someone is in nature, the power of the laptop runs out, or the person has no laptop to take with, ...

[7:24pm] cormaggio: I was just thinking about data from a general angle - to make it more reusable, etc

[7:24pm] cormaggio: hi atglenn - welcome :-)

[7:24pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: just doing it on pc without seeing the plant is a little less satisfying or ?

[7:25pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: hi atglenn

[7:25pm] cormaggio: well, when "in nature", take your camera.. :-)

[7:25pm] SB_Johnny: well, it would be cool if we had an "iPhone" version

[7:26pm] SB_Johnny: but you'd need to talk to darkcode about that one :)

[7:26pm] cormaggio: mmm, these kinds of things would be *very* cool...

[7:26pm] cormaggio: anyway - I think we're straying slightly...

[7:27pm] cormaggio: (though it's great to be thinking along these lines)

[7:28pm] SB_Johnny: I'll have to get back to #real-life work soon, but I did want to assure people that "if you build it, they will come"

[7:28pm] SB_Johnny: it just might just take a year or so for them to come, that's all

[7:28pm] cormaggio: right - i was trying to put it succinctly - thanks :-)

[7:29pm] Texou joined the chat room.

[7:29pm] • SB_Johnny suspects (non-american) cormaggio might have missed the (very american) reference, but it still works :)

[7:29pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: hi Texou

Is building a thing enough, or do we need more than the thing?
[7:29pm] cormaggio: I'd like to pose a problem for that - is building a thing enough, or do we need more than the thing?

[7:30pm] SB_Johnny: eh?

[7:30pm] cormaggio: ..what I'm referring to is some sort of means of participating in your space

[7:30pm] SB_Johnny: ah

[7:30pm] cormaggio: what concerns me is that many of the spaces on Wikiversity don't have a clear means for participating - why should I do it, what will i get out of it, how will I learn..?

[7:31pm] SB_Johnny: well, I promise to leave soon, but here's my "evolution story"

[7:31pm] cormaggio: ok..

[7:31pm] SB_Johnny: first, I made it work for what *I* wanted to do

[7:31pm] Texou: hi :D

[7:31pm] cormaggio: hi texou

[7:31pm] atglenn: if we build what? (when you get a chance) is there a thing that needs to exist before people participate?

[7:32pm] SB_Johnny: second, I tried to adjust it so other people could use it (e.g., other people who don't actually live in my head)

[7:32pm] cormaggio: atglenn - we're discussing the Bloom Clock (sorry)

[7:32pm] wikiversilinky3: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Bloom_Clock

[7:32pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: what must exist before participation:

[7:32pm] SB_Johnny: third, I tried to attract contributors using interwiki templates and such

[7:32pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: Antoine de Saint-Exupéry: incompatible encoding

[7:32pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: If you want to build a ship, don't drum up the men to gather wood, divide the work and give orders.

[7:32pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: Instead, teach them to yearn for the vast and endless sea.

[7:33pm] SB_Johnny: and now I just participate, and try to explain steps one and 2 :)

[7:33pm] cormaggio: :-) thanks SB_johnny

[7:34pm] SB_Johnny: oh and steps 1a, 2a, and 3a were asking for help. Mostly darkcode (but a few others) were invaluable

[7:34pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: so SB_Johnny every of these 3 steps cost lots of time for you

[7:34pm] SB_Johnny: that's important

[7:34pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: but I guess you also gained lots of each 3 steps ?

[7:34pm] SB_Johnny: yes, Erkan :)

[7:34pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: step1: realizing your dream

[7:35pm] SB_Johnny: well, yes

[7:35pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: step2: learning technical details/methods

[7:35pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: step3: learning by teaching others

[7:35pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: like this ?

[7:35pm] SB_Johnny: not just the dream... I actually edited a very complicated template on Wikipedia today... that makes me happy too :)

[7:35pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: :-)

[7:36pm] cormaggio: but this had a clear model for participating from the start...

[7:36pm] cormaggio: right?

[7:36pm] SB_Johnny: ok, I need to get the swimming hole ready for company later... will stop in

[7:36pm] SB_Johnny: yes, it was always supposed to be participatory

[7:37pm] cormaggio: ok SBJ - thanks

[7:37pm] SB_Johnny: a research project requiring only eyeballs and keyboards... digital camera helpful but not required :)

[7:37pm] SB_Johnny: cu

[7:37pm] cormaggio: (though I wasn't talking about "participatory" - I was more talking about a *model* for participation..)

[7:38pm] cormaggio: and I think it's a model we could use (ie other clocks)

[7:38pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: bye SB_Johnny

[7:39pm] cormaggio: I gave the example before about "what did I eat today?" clock - could be interesting data around diet, demographics...

[7:39pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: you mean like posting private data ?

[7:40pm] cormaggio: well, if you're posting, it's not private..

[7:40pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: people could then from that derive other things about the person - though if it is under a nick, it is less backtracable

[7:40pm] cormaggio: well, ok, it would be more complex - it was just another example of a different kind of clock

[7:40pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: no, it is good

[7:40pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: I didn't say otherwise

[7:41pm] cormaggio: yes :-)

[7:41pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: because WV gives the space and opportunity to create individual "services"

[7:41pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: adapt to the individual than otherwise

[7:41pm] cormaggio: I'm interested in applying a model from one course/resource/space in WV, and applying it to another..

[7:42pm] cormaggio: I think the reading groups is another good example of a model

[7:42pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well that would need to analyze the different projects first

[7:42pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: and then identify common steps

[7:42pm] cormaggio: I think we've yet to describe our various models - though i know McCormack is making a start on this

[7:43pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: we could talk about the reading group: Thucydides: The Peloponnesian War ?

[7:43pm] cormaggio: and I particularly feel JWS's model of learning by doing needs to be better explained/understood..

[7:43pm] wikiversilinky3: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Thucydides:_The_Peloponnesian_War

[7:43pm] cormaggio: ok Erkan :-)

[7:43pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: later, just let your ideas out :-)

[7:43pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: another question: who is still with us in this meeting ?

[7:44pm] cormaggio: no, that was it (on that theme)

[7:44pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: atglenn ?

[7:44pm] atglenn: hello

[7:44pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: hi :-)

[7:44pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: anyone else still watching ?

[7:45pm] cormaggio: Erkan - what have you learned about that reading group - as a model, process..?

[7:46pm] cormaggio: (other comments on resources' models would also be appreciated)

[7:47pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: before we start: there is also e.g. Composing free and open online educational resources or projects from schools/universities

[7:47pm] wikiversilinky3: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Composing_free_and_open_online_educational_resources

[7:47pm] cormaggio: I created Building successful learning communities on Wikiversity to collate examples of resources we could learn from...

[7:47pm] wikiversilinky3: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Building_successful_learning_communities_on_Wikiversity

[7:47pm] • Erkan_Yilmaz looks

[7:48pm] cormaggio: no, later please - it's a resource which we can develop after the meeting

[7:48pm] cormaggio: it has never taken off

[7:49pm] cormaggio: Erkan? You seem to be playing the waiting game.. :-)

[7:49pm] guillom left the chat room. (zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)

[7:50pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: ah no, was reading something

[7:50pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well model or not, I think a project needs a dedicated person to push it

[7:50pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: someone who takes care of others, helps them

[7:50pm] cormaggio: ok

[7:51pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: and about the goodness of a model: you need also feedback which is not always guaranteed

How are we facilitating their learning?
[7:51pm] cormaggio: so i'll throw out my problem from earlier about someone who doesn't know much about something - how are we facilitating their learning?

[7:52pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: here I had in mind: why are we MAINLY responsible for someone's learning ? whatever learning means

[7:52pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: learning takes place at every moment

[7:52pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: also about the questions you posed earlier: "why should I do it, what will i get out of it, how will I learn..?"

[7:53pm] cormaggio: some people's (yourself included Erkan!) attitude to questions about a subject on Wikiversity is: "start a learning project on it"

[7:53pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: "why should I do it, what will i get out of it" - if someone thinks like this I am not sure if he really wanna ?

[7:54pm] cormaggio: hmmm, but surely there are many opportunities to learn - if we can't provide a rationale that here is a good place, they will logically go elsewhere..

[7:54pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: what I mean is: people should fight for their own learning - no one else will do this for them

[7:54pm] cormaggio: I think this is a great step - when people start to fight for their learning - taking it into their own hands...

[7:54pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: what means "good place" ?

[7:55pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: that brings us probably to the NPOV ?

[7:55pm] cormaggio: ...but i am concerned with how casual we have been with suggesting that people "just click the edit button"

[7:55pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: (from last meeting)

[7:56pm] cormaggio: by "good place", I mean a place where the learner thinks they can get something out of it

[7:56pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well one thing: someone can also let's say learn at home, and probably when she goes online, she is searching for someone else/participation

[7:57pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: probably one of WVs task should be to bring together interested persons for discussing

[7:57pm] cormaggio: yes, right

[7:57pm] atglenn: you can learn at home in isolation or you can learn with others. presumably one reason to go elsewhere is to interact with other learners

[7:57pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: there was this idea at the Visioon page or Technical needs to make more with tags

[7:58pm] atglenn: but sometimes when you go on line it's just because you don't have the textbooks at home on your shelf

[7:58pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: about "just click the edit button": this can create hot discussions :-)

[7:58pm] cormaggio: yes, technical tools to help people find co-learners could really help..

[7:58pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: atglenn: yup

[7:59pm] cormaggio: well, I'm all for a hot discussion :-)

[7:59pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well: how about this one then: Did you ever edit another user page than "yours" ? - I guess you meant with edit button non-userpages

[7:59pm] wikiversilinky3: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Did_you_ever_edit_another_user_page_than_%22yours%22_%3F

[8:00pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: we can talk about this late, because it requires reading all

[8:01pm] cormaggio: I don't think we're talking about the same topic, Erkan

[8:01pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: could be :-)

[8:01pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: but the normal editor at WV still probably sees things as "his" work

[8:01pm] cormaggio: what I'm referring to is the suggestion that "clicking the edit button' will automatically improve someone's learning

[8:01pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: agreed, though learning improvement already starts when reading

[8:02pm] cormaggio: can I also ask what you meant a little earlier: "why are we MAINLY responsible for someone's learning ?"

[8:02pm] cormaggio: what were you asking here? what do you mean?

[8:03pm] cormaggio: hmmm, ok, the subject of "my" work is also a significant theme on WV, from what I've seen...

[8:03pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: "why are we MAINLY responsible for someone's learning ?": the main responsibility for that - but also other things - is mainly the individual: it is no cocaigne: you must do some effort also

[8:03pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: people should not come here and expect: ok, WV offers already 100% finished learning ressources

[8:04pm] cormaggio: "cocaigne"?

[8:04pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: I just have to read be passive to have success

[8:04pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: they must show initiative, do actions to be successful in their learning

[8:05pm] cormaggio: ok, but aren't we making assumptions about the learner then?

[8:05pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: we are always making assumptions Cormac, because we have in wiki less info - it is not face to face

[8:06pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: to not make assumptions requires the other person to give private info

[8:06pm] cormaggio: no, I'm talking about an assumption that the learner will fit a certain profile *in order to make wikiversity useful*

[8:06pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: and that people are not willing to do

[8:06pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: learning is individual, therefore I say: it is not our main responsibility and the learner must be active herself

[8:06pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: how should we without feedback know if a "model" works ?

[8:07pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: this requires time

[8:07pm] cormaggio: this is true

[8:07pm] cormaggio: but we could at least tell a learning community is active by number and diversity of edits

[8:08pm] cormaggio: so far, there have been lamentably few examples, from what I've seen

[8:08pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well WV is not existing so long and people also have their own views about WV without knowing it

[8:08pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: when I look at the

[8:09pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: candidates from the Wikimedia Foundation's board election and their responses here:

[8:09pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: Board elections/2008/Candidates/Questions/3

[8:09pm] wikiversilinky3: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_elections/2008/Candidates/Questions/3#Wikiversity

[8:09pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: I am also wondering either we have failed to transmit our mission/ideas

[8:09pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: or they just are not interested

[8:10pm] cormaggio: ok, so if we're assuming the learner should be "active" in order to learn, should we be giving some guidance in this activity? how?

[8:11pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: guidance by ?

[8:11pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: writing a page ?

[8:11pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: or guidance by looking at the edits and giving individual comments `?

[8:11pm] cormaggio: well, both would work (and do)

[8:12pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: the most effective probably is the individual taking care of - mentoring someone - though here the question is someone able to mentor someone good enough by wiki means ?

[8:12pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: probably saying from time to time: good job, done great, continue like this

[8:13pm] cormaggio: sure

[8:14pm] cormaggio: so, I'm thinking we could have two types of resources for facilitating of the learning process..

[8:14pm] cormaggio: 1) a page (or group of pages) on how people can further their learning in a certain way

[8:15pm] cormaggio: 2) a page (or group of pages) about how to guide someone in their path of learning

[8:15pm] cormaggio: does anyone agree that these kinds of resources would be helpful?

[8:16pm] cormaggio: an example of the first kind might be informed by pages like Learning by doing or Collective learning

[8:16pm] wikiversilinky3: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Learning_by_doing

[8:16pm] wikiversilinky3: http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Collective_learning

[8:16pm] cormaggio: (thanks again atglenn!)

[8:17pm] • Erkan_Yilmaz must say he didn't yet read both pages much :-)

[8:18pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: there is so much to read on WV

[8:18pm] cormaggio: that's ok! I'm talking more about the ideas for a start

[8:18pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well to create both kind of pages is good, because it can be presented to newcomers

[8:18pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: since atm: the individual taking-care of cannot be assured for everyone

[8:19pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: so people can read for themselves and contribute their ideas/comments on it, which also is a form of learning/participating

[8:19pm] cormaggio: "so much to read" - is there a rationale for having a compact section of Wikiversity that people could refer to basic aspects of Wikiversity's work?

[8:20pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: compact section: well if you can convince a person in a few words right at begin that is better than presenting her with lots of text

[8:20pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: time is valuable (for any of us) :-)

[8:20pm] cormaggio: I agree with you there

[8:21pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well I guess we try this with the welcome msg

[8:22pm] cormaggio: I think a lot of ideas on WV could be presented in a more compact form, which could link to or continue into more detailed versions of the same theory/model/etc

[8:22pm] cormaggio: well, I think the welcome message is ok.... but how were you thinking of improving it?

[8:22pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: today I read again beta's way to foster cooperation between WVs: translating comments of everybody and making a short summary of that

[8:22pm] • Erkan_Yilmaz looks the page up

[8:23pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: http://beta.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Multilingualism/En

[8:24pm] guillom joined the chat room.

[8:24pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: welcome msg, well used wiki editors just see the welcome msg as a non-personal thing, they probably want a human writing something specific for them ?

[8:24pm] cormaggio: hmm, interesting - how are you suggesting we apply this in en?

[8:25pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: Multilangualism: that was in reference to make it shorter

[8:25pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: it is less effort for others when there exists a short summary

[8:26pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: but though then people do again assumptions, since less info is just less info

[8:26pm] cormaggio: well, kinda like the policy "in a nutshell" on wikipedia...

[8:26pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: but on the other hand: didn't Goethe once apologize to a fiend for writing a long letter ?

[8:26pm] cormaggio: I think we've all done that!

[8:27pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: fiend -> friend

[8:27pm] cormaggio: ok, how were you suggesting we modify the welcome message again? I don't understand the human touch...

[8:28pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well the welcome msg is just: copy pasting a subst: people might thing: the welcome msg writer doesn't give much attention/time for me ?

[8:28pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: what could be done is: reading all edits so far of the person and react on their edits by a comment: interesting view or I am not sure did you consider ...

[8:29pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: so that the person needs to answer and that is the first form of interaction then

[8:29pm] cormaggio: ok, sure - it's more personal - but how does this relate to this discussion?

[8:29pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: that could stamp people

[8:29pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: they see that they are not alone in WV

[8:29pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: that is why they are coming from their homes to go online to see others

[8:30pm] McCormack joined the chat room.

[8:30pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: otherwise it takes longer until someone reacts on an edit on a page (atm)

[8:30pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: the feedback is not right in time then

[8:31pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: you could also say: vandals get more attention than "normal" contributors :-)

[8:31pm] cormaggio: yes, but I'm having a hard time relating this to what we were talking about when you raised this

[8:32pm] cormaggio: we were talking about developing resources that would help people learn, and help people facilitate learning, yes?

[8:32pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well how did we come here: by my comment "so much to read" on your idea with the 2 ressources to be created

[8:32pm] cormaggio: right - so how would the welcome message combat the fact of having so much to read?

[8:33pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well e.g. the welcome msg could not be only in text form

[8:33pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: there could be a video

[8:33pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: that provides more info - and could be more effective

[8:34pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: and also would show how learning can also be done at WV

[8:34pm] cormaggio: ok sure - that's a type of resource that would be great to have

[8:34pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: e.g. the video could provide a voice of someone, which makes it again more personal, more senses get activated by the recipient

[8:35pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: people could see immediately how they can create learning resources

[8:35pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: and then get the motivation: I also would like to create such a video

[8:35pm] cormaggio: but was this what you were meaning when you brought it up?

[8:35pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: and then they come into the devil's circle that that takes knowledge and also to create an OGG only (the format only commons accepts)

[8:36pm] cormaggio: I just get the feeling that this discussion is hopping around too much

[8:36pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: my meaning with the welcome was at begin: to make something short and also individual

[8:36pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: and the hopping around: because no one else is talking :-)

[8:37pm] cormaggio: well, surely it would hop more if more people were talking, but anyway..

[8:37pm] cormaggio: ..so you're suggesting that people would record an individual video message for each new contributor?

[8:37pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: no, that I couldnt do :-)

[8:37pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: that is too much effort

[8:38pm] cormaggio: ok, so: what were you suggesting? :-)

[8:38pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: I meant how they can in a short and fast way see how WV works

[8:38pm] cormaggio: sure - i agree wholeheartedly with having such a resource

[8:38pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: and the individual part of it: including also comments on their recent edits so they see: someone is reading what they do here

[8:39pm] cormaggio: but Erkan - I don't see how this relates to what we were talking about - I'm sorry

[8:39pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: no need to be sorry

[8:39pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: just tell what you are intending to, since I cant read your mind

[8:40pm] cormaggio: what i'm trying to do is to help people find their way in Wikiversity - make it productive for them

[8:41pm] cormaggio: so the types of resources i outlined could be useful to the learner, and to the person guiding the learner

[8:41pm] cormaggio: and I think your suggestion to keep things compact is very useful here

[8:41pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well you could initiate steps which adresses to many learners or care for individual persons

[8:42pm] cormaggio: right - I agree

[8:43pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: the easier and less effort way is to create something for many learners but you don't get probably feedback then on what you have initiated or only on longer terms

[8:43pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: with individual taking care you get feedback and build from that your hypothesis

[8:43pm] cormaggio: though I'd want to take care that we don't artificially reinforce the learner/teacher distinction..

[8:43pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: and then apply this to more people

[8:44pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: yes, from last time the discussion: that requires then sentences like: IF .. THEN

[8:44pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: and that blows up the text again

[8:44pm] cormaggio: if anyone else is lurking here: any opinions on what we've been discussing?

[8:46pm] cormaggio: I have the feeling we should wrap up this meeting

[8:46pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well if no one else is lurking, we can also stop, it has been 105 mins :-)

action steps
[8:46pm] cormaggio: but I'd like to define our action steps from this meeting

[8:48pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: like ?

[8:48pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: (21:13:26) so, i'm thinking we could have two types of resources for facilitating of the learning process..

[8:48pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: (21:14:01) 1) a page (or group of pages) on how people can further their learning in a certain way

[8:48pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: (21:14:31) 2) a page (or group of pages) about how to guide someone in their path of learning

[8:48pm] cormaggio: sorry :-)

[8:48pm] cormaggio: yes, I was just pasting them in :-)

[8:48pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: hehe

[8:49pm] cormaggio: is this too vague?

[8:49pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well you can provide some examples of ressource which exist already, if they exist

[8:49pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: and another action step is:

[8:50pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: how to get next time more people in here :-)

[8:50pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: also getting feedback on teh 2 meetings in general would be good

[8:50pm] cormaggio: I'm a bit disappointed on feedback on meetings

[8:50pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: well it is like everything in wiki: it takes some time

[8:50pm] cormaggio: (ie people saying whether they'll come)

[8:51pm] cormaggio: yes, that's true

[8:51pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: people will read teh logs and probably this will start some actions/ideas

[8:51pm] cormaggio: well, that's what I'm hoping

[8:51pm] cormaggio: but i'm assuming nothing

[8:51pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: or w ejust have to include also some wild hypothesis in here :-)

[8:51pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: to cause hot reactions

[8:52pm] cormaggio: well, that's not necessarily the purpose either :-)

[8:52pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: :-)

[8:52pm] cormaggio: ok Erkan - I appreciate your patience and time

[8:52pm] cormaggio: thansk for coming - i think we can discuss these things further on-wiki

[8:52pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: same here too: you also took time to be here

[8:53pm] cormaggio: I'm still wondering where should be a good workspace to continue these ideas - but we can work that out after

[8:54pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: yes

[8:54pm] cormaggio: right - so - meeting over for now

[8:54pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: ok

[8:54pm] cormaggio: I think I need some dinner :-)

[8:54pm] Erkan_Yilmaz: bon appetit


text:
Psychotherapy

 * /Rational emotive behavior therapy - How can REBT help to change our emotions?/
 * Solution focused brief therapy
 * Miracle question

title: Psychotherapy