text:
Talk:French phrasebook

Pronounciation
Ronline, I'm not sure I agree about some pronounciations. I think that "é" is usually pronounced as "ay" in "hay," though perhaps slightly shorter (think of né and countless other verbs conjugated in the passé composé ... also look at the pronounciation for "désolé(e)" given in the phrasebook.)

 * I'm actually responding to the question in your summary. No, there's not a standard for pronunciation, and I'm afraid we're going to run into trouble with this. The way an Irishman or Australian would say "hay" sounds very different from the way a Canadian or American would say it. I'm still kind of flummoxed on this issue -- suggestions are very much welcome. I've thought about using IPA or SAMPA, but they're both kind of hard to learn and use. It'd be nice to find a pronunciation format that's precise yet intuitive for casual readers. -- (WT-en) Evan 09:26, 4 Nov 2003 (PST)

 * Including Ogg or Speex files, spoken by native speakers, could be a solution. Then the way the pronunciation is written isn't anymore of utmost importance. Oh, and I think _the_ way to recognize anglophone people speaking French is their way of pronouncing the "é"s as "ay" :) (WT-en) Guaka 14:21, 4 Nov 2003 (PST)

 * And we do tend to mess up the genders of nouns as well.. but yeah, it's really hard for us to avoid using the dipthong, just as it's hard to explain to a fellow english speaker that it's the first half of the ay sound without the dipthong y part at the end.  I guess in french one would spell the english version éill, or something like that.. :) -- (WT-en) UchuHa 11:33, 5 Nov 2003 (CET)

Maybe we should use standard phonetics instead ? (but hard to represent with ASCII characters sometimes). -- (WT-en) Mathieu 22:55, 13 Nov 2003 (GMT +1).

 * Mathieu: first, add comments to talk pages at the bottom of the page (see using talk pages for more hints). Second: there's a discussion about this on Project:Phrasebook Expedition (scroll down a bit). I'd love to do some kind of standard phonetics -- like IPA or SAMPA -- but it tends to be completely unreadable. I don't think it's really useful to make English-language readers learn those abstruse symbol systems in order to use the phrasebooks. Anyways, it's not really necessary to get the pronunciations exactly perfect -- people just have to get close enough to be understood.

 * (WT-en) Maj's take on the matter, after some study (she's trained as a linguist), is that we should start working on a Wikivoyage-wide pseudo-phonetic guide for phrasebook makers. It would just be a listing of all the fakey English-like words we're using ("ah", "ow", "ung") and what they mean. Like ah -> 'a' in "father", 'o' in "bother". ung -> nasal 'un' in French "Verdun". And we could specify that ALL CAPS means the syllable has emphasis, and that syllables in the same word should be strung to-ge-ther with hyphens. That kind of thing.

 * This could make it easier for the great people contributing to the Phrasebooks to get things kinda right, and for us to have pronunciations for phrases that look kinda the same between and within languages. The alphabet isn't started yet; I should get off my lazy butt and get it moving. Or, of course, anyone else can get working on Project:Pseudo-phonetics guide for phrasebooks (make sure to link to it from the Phrasebook Expedition). -- (WT-en) Evan 14:35, 13 Nov 2003 (PST)

I'm a native speaker, though since I've never traveled in France I don't know all the words. In my pronunciation (which is probably pretty close to Norman since that's where my father came from) è is the same as the vowel in "set". Who pronounces it as in "cat"? (WT-en) PierreAbbat 16:27, 3 Dec 2003 (PST)

 * I agree with you on that point. However, some French people (namely those living in the northern part of the country) have a tendancy to say "è" like in "cat"... Sometimes. It's better for a foreigner to say "è" like in "set", as this will be understood pretty everywhere. (WT-en) Mathieu 08:16, 4 Dec 2003 (PST)

Problems
I dunno if you should vouvoyer people who are bothering you. "Touches pas" just sounds more forbidding than "Ne me touchez pas, s'il vous plaît." --(WT-en) Evan 08:01, 14 Dec 2003 (PST)

 * Whichever way it is, the text should match the pronunciation. "Touche pas" is also a lot faster to say - ask any doctor why he says "stat" instead of "immediately". -(WT-en) phma 16:57, 14 Dec 2003 (PST)

Which is better for "cheat": "tricher" or "tromper"? -(WT-en) phma 15:18, 15 Feb 2004 (EST)

Two things
'Tricher' is cheat like in a game, 'tromper' is cheat like 'to cheat on your wife' (tromper sa femme).

Also, saying casse-toi to someone is a hell of a lot more impolite than 'buzz off.' Replace the Buzz with every American's favorite adjective and you've got a better idea of what it means. It's likely to get a foriegner beat up, frankly. I think 'Laisse-moi tranqille' would be better, or at the worst a simple 'dégage.'

 * Point taken. I think that was my mistake, and I'll fix it now (unless you already have.)  My excuse for this error is that I probably picked it up at the punk-rock club that I hang out at.  I think I've seen it in Titeuf as well, which is not surprising considering its author at least used to hang around l'Usine as well.. ;) -- (WT-en) Mark 04:44, 28 Feb 2004 (EST)

Link to list
I removed the link to the list of phrasebooks. I don't see why it'd be valuable, and it's very bad form to link out of the main namespace to another one. --(WT-en) Evan 16:37, 10 Aug 2004 (EDT)

Brown=marron?
Wouldn't it be better to use the more accurate and internationally understood "brun/brune" instead?

 * Ouais. I suppose that would be better.  Please feel free to fix it, but if you don't I will sometime soon. -- (WT-en) Mark 16:55, 16 Oct 2005 (EDT)

chèque
"traveler's chèque" : could/should it be "Chèque de voyage"?

What's the goal of this?
I've often wondered what the benefit of putting such beautifully correct French in phrasebooks is. Why "comment allez-vous" and not just "ca va?" Why "Avez-vous ceci dans ma taille?" rather than "Vous avez un 8?" Why " Combien coûte le billet pour..." instead of "Le billet pour ..., c'est combien?" All of these alternatives are perfectly understandable, more likely to be used by actual French people, and best of all, much easier for a non-French speaker to construct on the fly.

For anyone likely to use a phrasebook like this, the best is to teach them a small number of words (like "ca", "c'est", "ici"...) and a few handy ways of combining them. No one is possibly going to sit down and memorise hundreds of brand new sentences. Beautifully constructed sentences with inversions are, at best, going to confuse a French person into thinking you actually speak French...

Note that I also simplified the phonology section a lot. I've lived here for two years (and studied French *and* linguistics at school and university), and I'm not that convinced that people make pronounce é and è that differently in normal speech. It's certainly not worth worrying about for an anglophone tourist! Also there was a bit of confusion about what diphthongs are - they're actually sequences of two vowels, something that French has precious few of. (WT-en) Stevage 17:44, 8 August 2006 (EDT)

Note on emphasis in French
Speaking French hardly has any individual word emphasis, which is completely contrary to English. Frankly, it's probably one of the largest inhibitors to comprehension by natives, just as in English the lack of emphasis by native French speakers is disconcerting and often hard to understand. I get the point of trying to show emphasis in pseudo-phonetics; however, for the purpose of the phrasebook I think the note should be made that emphasis comes at the end of phrases or sentences. On the same note, capitalized emphasis should be removed from this guide (especially because people seem to have a tendency to emphasize capital letters simply by saying them louder).

 * For explanations, please plunge forward! But for capitals in pseudo-phonetics, this has been debated before and remains controversial, but the closest we can come to a consensus seems to be that it's better to at least direct the user to put the stress where it will do the least harm, instead of expecting them to be able to remember the guidelines. (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:10, 1 May 2008 (EDT)

Excessive "G" in pronunciations?
I've browsed through the pronunciations on the page, and the first thing that strikes me is a lot of "g"s in the pronunciations. I am by no means fluent, but I have studied French for 4 years and been to France tice and have never heard pronounced "g"s in such words as: demain (duh-MANG), besoin (bu-SWANG), dents(DAHNG), pain (pang), jambon (zhahng-BONG), saumon (saw-MOHG), and tens of others... So is this just one particular dialect, or is this how it would sound if you speak British/Australian English (I don't think so, just suggesting)? It would seem, in my understanding/experience of French, that more appropriate pronunciations for the above words (and there are many more like them) should be: demain (deh-mahn), besoin (bez-WAHN), dents (dahn), moyans (moiy-AHN), pain (pahn), jambon (zham-BON), and saumon (soh-MON). Of course this might differ between those of us speaking American vs British/Aussie english...but I still don't understand the excessive use of "g". Any reasons? (WT-en) AHeneen 23:52, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

 * I'd agree, a nasalized n is very different from a velarized ng. I think the way it is currently written is misleading, and would confuse me (a non-French speaker). --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:57, 13 October 2008 (EDT)

Bribing
Is it really such a good idea to teach people how to bribe?--213.168.117.74 02:11, 25 March 2010 (EDT)

 * Keep in mind French is widely spoken throughout West and Central Africa...including many of the most corrupt governments in the world. While bribing isn't a good thing, it is necessary to get around most of francophone Africa. (WT-en) AHeneen 07:16, 25 March 2010 (EDT)

 * Note: Only consider attempting this in third world countries. DO NOT try to do this in France or Canada as it will get you in worse trouble! should likely read "don't try this in Canada or Europe". It won't go over well in Switzerland (where everything runs like clockwork) and trying it in Belgium will likely get you Smurfed out of the village. K7L (talk) 14:40, 16 October 2012 (CEST)7
 * I agree. I'll change it. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:55, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

garçon
is this really considered offensive? It's been used in many French films I've seen. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage • ( Talk ) • ( (WT-en) Travel ) • 06:09, 18 November 2010 (EST)
 * Yes. It really is. It literally means "boy", and shouldn't be used for anybody over 12 years old. -- MarkJaroski (talk) 10:25, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Pronounciation of "œ"
The pronounciation of the ligature "œ" is [é] when placed at the beginning of a word followed by a consonant like in œnologue, œsophage, œdipe...

 * Is pretty much like the German ö. The closest equivalent in English is the way speakers with very posh British English accents pronounce the "er" at the end of a word. -- MarkJaroski (talk) 10:27, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

"-ng"
This phrasebook is continually using the letters "ng", when the nasal is involved. Is this some Wikivoyage thing, as it seems very unintuitive to me, as if I didn't speak French, I would say "bong" for the pronouncation guide given for "bon". Should this be changed? Betweenarock (talk) 23:45, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Changed to what, though? What English-language sound is it closer to? None that I can think of. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:01, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * By the way, I don't agree with you that "comment" sounds like "koh-moh." There is no "oh" sound in the second syllable in any accent I'm familiar with (including Midi, Provencal, Parisian and Burgundian; I can't remember how Quebecois pronounce vowels, but since I was used to French accents from France, I found their accent very strange). I'd approximate it as "koh-mahng." Note, too, that we don't expect people to learn IPA symbols in order to use our phrasebooks, so while it might be OK to put them in parentheses (we'll see what others say), we have to approximate French words with English sounds to the extent possible. We can't expect new French speakers to sound like Parisians overnight. I will change the pseudo-pronunciation of "comment" unless you can give a good reason for the "oh" sound as the second syllable. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:07, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * French is not my native language, but I'd like to say I speak it pretty well. My French dictionary gives both the IPA, kɔ.mɑ̃, which is a bit unfriendly, but also the English approximation, ko-mon. To me that sounds more like the word "comment" being used in both Metropolitan French as well as in Québécois. [[File:Fr-comment.ogg]] as an example. To me adding the "-ng" at the end, looks like it should be pronounced like a velar nasal, as in "sing". I can change as needed, but I just thought that may be useful. Just my two cents. Thanks! Betweenarock (talk) 03:35, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * "Ko-mon" could be equivalent to "ko-mahn," but not in all accents of English. It's not the same as "ko-moh." Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:55, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I went on a hunt for what the general agreement is for representing that sound. (The second syllable in comment) in English-esque spelling. The Lonely Planet French Phrasebook says "koh-MON" for "comment". GlobalTourisim says "kuh-mahn" for "comment". My worry with "-ng", is that it encourages people to say "koh-mong", with the last syllable rhyming with "gong". I do understand that that particular nasal vowel isn't found in English, but I think that "ng" just muddies the waters. Thanks for your interest. Betweenarock (talk) 18:23, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * We could represent that sound as (ng), in parentheses. Look at the Malay phrasebook and how I've represented unaspirated T's and P's at the end of words. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:54, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I really like that idea, with one caveat: I think that the letter should be just an (n). To me, that balances the nasalization without implying too much of a velar, like "sing". I think that should be a good compromise that works best for all involved.
 * But I do think it's more of an (ng) than an (n). Anyway, though, it's nasal. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:14, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * To me, the French 'n' has always sounded like a softer version of the English 'N', as if they are going to pronounce the full 'N' sound but stop before it really makes it out of their mouth. And it is of course pronounced much further back in the mouth (it's nasal, like Ikan says) than in English. I've always disliked the use of '-ng' for much the same reasons as Betweenarock, but I'm also not convinced by either the "co-moh" or straight up "co-mon" options and can't really think of a better English combination of letters. The trouble with the suggested "(n)g" is that although it successfully diminishes the 'N' sound it also insinuates that you should pronounce the 'G' quite strongly.
 * I would say IPA is the way forward but so many people don't understand it, so there has to be a viable way of expressing the sound using only letters and symbols common to English. Along the lines of employing brackets, wouldn't "n(g)" be more accurate than "(n)g"?. As an alternative suggestion, could we write the 'N' with a strike through it (e.g "co-mo n ") to indicate its status as being "not quite pronounced"? Just a thought, seeing as you have reached somewhat of an impasse (now there's a French word we English speakers pronounce poorlyǃ)
 * Alors, à vous, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:06, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I was suggesting (ng), definitely not (n)g. If both of you feel (n) is better, I'll defer to you. N(g) doesn't quite get it because the sound is nasal, with no enunciation of an "n" by the tongue, so I think it's better to put the whole sound in parentheses, or with a strikethrough if you prefer. In the end, we just do what we can, and people who want to learn better pronunciation need to listen to French being spoken by native speakers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:51, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I do tend to prefer the strike through, although that may just be because it was my idea, so I wouldn't want to act on a narcissistic whim before any consensus was reached. I suppose the brackets would be easier to implement than all the faffing around with wiki formatting for the strike. Other than that, I agree there's only so much we can do. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:35, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay awesome. I think my vote is going to go for "ko-mo(n)". I feel that fits within the needs expressed by everyone involved. I also think that adding a note at the top of the phrasebook will be useful for that too. Betweenarock (talk) 22:14, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I still disagree on the vowel. In American English, on="ahn"; that is not true in British or many other pronunciations of English. I really would suggest an "ah" vowel sound in the last syllable of comment. Do you really consider "ent" to be the same sound as "ont" in French? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:51, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * No, you're right; "ent" and "ont" are (ever so slightly) different. I'm not sure if English has this subtle a pronunciation difference though. Just speaking personally, if I saw "ah" written, and I didn't know any French, I would assume it was a flat A sound (as in "tap"). What about "aw", as in "co-mawn", which has the benefit of already appearing in the guide somewhere. With this continued disagreement about how sounds should be represented by letters, it's becoming increasingly clear that our current approach is somewhat inadequate.

 * Would it not just be better to record some sound files and upload them to the pronunciation guide? I've been speaking French since I was in primary school, and I'm having a tough time wrapping my head around which is the exact pronunciation, as I learnt pronunciation through actively using and hearing the sounds, parroting if you will. Sound files of 'on', 'en', 'ain', 'em' etc, even for the words and sentences in the 'phrases' section, really might be of more practical use than our confusing approximations of how they should look if written in English. That way, people can just click on the file and find out exactly how a letter, sound, or word sounds, and then parrot away to their heart's content. Admittedly this wouldn't be so good for the stated project aim that everything on WV should be printable, but the number of people taking their smartphones and tablets on trips is only going to keep increasing. Plus, I think I'm right in saying that you can download all the sound files on here as MP3 files.

 * It will take a bit of effort, but once a sound file is recorded and uploaded, preferably by a native speaker, it can be there forever, with no ambiguity or confusion. Thoughts? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:19, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Sure thing. Wikimedia Commons already has sound files for most sounds in French. I think having a combination of English-esque phonetic spelling, for the printed version, as well as sound file would be ideal. 108.238.229.197 17:04, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Well that revelation makes things easierǃ We still need to agree on a good set of phonetic spellings though, not least for all the endless variations of the nasal N. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:12, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Sorry, but sound file are currently banned here. See Image policy:

 * "One of Wikivoyage's goals is to have Wikivoyage articles useful as printed pages. We therefore do not use other media files like digital sound clips or video images."

 * However, I haven't located any prior discussion of sound files specifically, rather than video clips. I'd suggest making a proposal to allow them at Wikivoyage talk:Image policy. Present the same case you've presented here, and let's see whether we can come to agreement on this. I think there will be some support and some resistance, and I'm not sure what the outcome will be, but it's worth discussing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:23, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Getting back to pseudo-pronunciation, when I see "ah," I think of the "a" in "father." I pronounce the "a" in "tap" very differently in my accent of English. Granted, the "a" in "father" is further forward in the throat than the "e" in "comment," but it's a lot more similar than the "aw" sound or the way I pronounce "a" in "tap." Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:27, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Yeah, when I was writing "tap" it occurred to me that we probably pronounce the word very differently from one another, but hopefully you get the idea that "ah" can be perceived by different people as representing two very different sounds, and this ambiguity is what's problematic. Unfortunately I can't really imagine in my head how a New Yorker would pronounce father (if only there was some way you could record yourself and share it with us hereǃ) but I'll trust you're right that it's similar to the 'E' in "comment".

 * Weirdly, I actually had a American accent cliché in mind when I proposed "aw" (I mean no disrespect, but think "cuppa cawfee in Bawston"), because its UK pronunciation (rhymes with 'or' with a non-rhotic R) doesn't fit the French at all. I suppose "ah" the word, of "Ah-haǃ" fame, is like the long A in father, but the British way of saying "father" really doesn't sound like "comment". Once again the diversity of the English language is doing its best to thwart any attempt at representing French pronunciation in a way for everyone to understand.

 * The listen function on Google Translate, which is great for pronunciation demos if little else, highlights how uncannily close "comment" is to how an English person would say "c'mon". The "ent" is a really quite well-rounded O and the actual "o" in the word is closer to a U or the ə sound I learned today is called a "schwa", which is easily the most flamboyant-sounding word I've heard in a while.

 * As for the question of which of the many ways to represent "ent" is better, I'm stumped. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 03:29, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

 * You nailed it here: "I suppose "ah" the word, of "Ah-haǃ" fame, is like the long A in father." Yep, I pronounce that "a" and the one in "father" the same way. As for the "aw" sound, in New York (and a lot of American pronunciation), I'd say that "raw," "moth," "talk" have the same vowel. In New York pronunciation, "coffee" has an "aw" vowel with at least a slight "w" consonant following (in extreme accents, it's very pronounced or may be pronounced "koow-fee"). However, most Americans don't have New York accents, and this is the French and not the New York English or American English phrasebook, so as long as we use pseudo-pronunciations that are more or less understandable throughout the English-speaking world, we'll be OK. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:41, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Let's use appropriate tools
Apart from holy tradition, why exactly are we not putting the traveller first and using real sound file examples such as rather than struggling with tortuous and non-obvious stuff like "ko-mong" ? --31.50.107.107 22:38, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Please make your argument in Wikivoyage talk:Image policy, as I suggested above. Making an argument about policy here is not going to have any effect. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:48, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Sounds like a plan. Thank you for the info presented above Ikan; I'll go and do what you suggest sometime soon. Anonymous user 31.50.107.107, please come by and support me when I do, as it seems like this proposal could do with all the help it can get, going against official policy and all. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 02:33, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Unfortunately, the anonymous user was apparently a banned troll who prefers to diss policies and moderation instead of trying to seek consensus about new policies, so they won't be around to offer support. However, I will, if we can agree about the scope of allowable sound files. Please make the proposal, and please include a link in this thread. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:50, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Thank you, I am most gratefulǃ I'm thinking that proposing the sound files just for this guide and others like it (so basically phrasebooks), in order to hopefully minimise resistance. I can't think of anywhere they'd be especially useful beyond language learning anyway. I will write the proposal later today, and let you know when it's live. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:20, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Proofreading of the French translations
I went over the various translations, and a few things looked wrong to me. I'm not fixing them directly as I'm not able to change the pronounciation at the same time

This is translated as if this was the infinitive form "To call an ambulance", but I think this is meant to be an imperative "Do call an ambulance". The correct translations would be "Appelez une ambulance/les pompiers/la police/la garde côtière".
 * Call an ambulance/the fire brigade/the police/the coastguard

I think this section needs work, the "et demi", "et quart", "moins vingt" modifiers are only used when a 12 hour clock is used, otherwise I would just use the usual number for the minutes (ie 15h40 is either "quatre heures moins vingt" or "quinze heures quarante", but not "seize heures moins vingt"). I haven't looked for a reference to check if it's just something personal or something well defined, but I don't think I've heard people using "seize heure moins vingt".
 * Clock time

"Past the... " would be better as "Après avoir passé le/la/les" and same for "Before the..." : "Avant d'arriver au / à la / aux " ChristopheFergeau (talk) 06:31, 6 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Directions

-oi
This is what is currently written in "Semi-vowels":

like "wa" in "walk"

I don't think it's just a New York thing to pronounce "walk" quite differently from "wok". If you differentiate "awwwwwwww!" from "ahhhhhhh!", you may be able to follow me here. "Walk" in much of the U.S. is pronounced "wawk", whereas "wok" is pronounced "wahk". In other parts of the country, the two words are both pronounced "wahk". Anyway, I don't think we want people saying "Kwaw?" for "Quoi?", and I know that "wok" uses quite a different vowel from "ah" in many parts of the English-speaking world including the British Isles.

So here's my proposal.

''like "wa" in "want"

OK, sure, in some parts of the U.S. South and elsewhere, people may pronounce that word "wawnt", but I'm not sure what other alternative we have that's not pretty complicated and I think most people reading here would consider "wawnt" a non-standard pronunciation of "want", whereas "wawk" for "walk" is entirely standard and normal in large swathes of the U.S.

By the way, I just edited the explanation of "eu", because loads of English-speakers pronounce the "r" in "burp", but I think just about all English-speakers will understand the "u" in "burp" as having more or less the same sound. I'll look through the rest of this phrasebook to see if it's too geared toward only Brits learning to pronounce French. I'd like to see this phrasebook featured in time. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:07, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

 * No-one replied to this. I haven't changed my view and will make the edit. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:22, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Pronunciation of e
I suppose it is hard to get English speakers to pronounce "é", but I still think we should at least tell it is not a diphtong. Now one is told it is pronounced 'similar to "ay" in "day" (IPA: e) but shorter'. What about adding "and not a diphtong: leave out the 'ee' at the end"? (The é of "day" is short enough, just don't say the rest.)

Hm. In the first section of tis talk page I find this:
 * And we do tend to mess up the genders of nouns as well.. but yeah, it's really hard for us to avoid using the dipthong, just as it's hard to explain to a fellow english speaker that it's the first half of the ay sound without the dipthong y part at the end.  I guess in french one would spell the english version éill, or something like that.. :) -- (WT-en) UchuHa 11:33, 5 Nov 2003 (CET)

--LPfi (talk) 10:56, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Quebec French
Should we include a bit more information on the differences between French from Quebec and French from Metropolitan France? Perhaps an explanation of the differences in pronunciation, vocabulary, or informal speech/sentence structure, like a mini-phrasebook? Or perhaps that would be better on the page for Quebec? Liberscriptus19 (talk) 16:07, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I would include it here, with a link from Quebec. Wikipedia has articles on Canadian French and Quebec French with vocabulary charts, so we don't have to reinvent the wheel. Ground Zero (talk) 16:21, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, definitely. The accent is really different from what I was used to in France (Nice and Paris and environs [Burgundy, Loire Valley]), and while I understood Montrealers well and did pretty well in Quebec City, when I was in Chicoutimi, I had trouble understanding them at all, and that was hard, because very few people there spoke English, either. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:17, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 * apologies for interceding in this conversation out of the blue, but I think you may have misunderstood Ground Zero's advice about not reinventing the wheel. By all means use Wikipedia as a source for the necessary information on Quebeckish French. You can copy text directly from the Wikipedia articles he mentioned, or adapt the text to more closely suit Wikivoyage's style and aims (a better option), as long as you credit Wikipedia in your edit summary.

 * But just directing the reader to click on a link to Wikipedia, in place of adding the information to Wikivoyage, is not a good solution. This is because it both falls foul of our policy on links to Wikipedia and goes against our goal to retain as many readers as possible by providing everything they need to know in the context of travel right here on Wikivoyage. If you haven't currently got the time to write about the language differences, you can put in a link to Quebec, which does touch on the differences, in place of the link to Wikipedia, but ideally it would be good to see some information on the differences make it to this article. Let me know if this makes sense. Best wishes, --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:19, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry; I confess I need to brush up on the rules. I added a table with some everyday terms that are different in the two dialects. Is that better? Liberscriptus19 (talk) 17:53, 16 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Nobody can possibly know all of the rules, but with time and experience you'll get more familiar with them. And that table is wonderful; thanks for replying and acting so quickly. Bonne fin de semaine :-) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:15, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Quebec or Canada?
In this edit, user:The dog2 changed the heading from Québecois to Canada, however the comparison table headings still read English - France - Quebec. How similar (or otherwise) is Acadian to Québecois? Are there other Canadian dialects worth consideration too? Would it be accurate to change the table heading from 'Quebec' to 'Canada'? If not, perhaps Acadian is best handled under a separate subheading, to avoid muddling them up.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 23:01, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, I'm not fluent in French myself. I only know some basic expressions I learnt for my trip to Quebec so I can order food and the like. But at least from my reading, the French in New Brunswick is a distinct dialect from the French in Quebec, though I don't know any specific vocabulary differences. I won't be surprised if it's closer to Quebec French than European French though. I remember when I went to the Cajun part of Louisiana, a French speaker there told me that they also use the word char to mean "car", which would make it closer to Quebec French than European French, and it is known that the Cajuns are descended from Francophones who were expelled from the east coast of Canada by the British. See for an example of someone speaking Cajun French. The dog2 (talk) 23:07, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Cool video, thanks for sharing. When the first man started speaking, for the first 30 seconds I thought I'd need the subtitles, but then he said something about his cows and I got my ear in and from then it was easy. The older man (in the Trump hat) sounds a lot more French than M. Thibodeaux, who has a stronger accent. And then the guys making the local TV show sound like they learnt French in France, which I guess is good for them but maybe not the best way to keep Cajun alive. The only dialect words I noticed were mouche de miel (honey fly!) instead of abeille for bee, and something the subtitles said meant "today" but sounded like instard, which could be à l'instant. Doesn't really answer my questions above, but very enjoyable diversion. Anyway, we have Canadians and we have French speakers who've visited QC and NB, so hopefully someone has the answers! --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 00:06, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I know the video doesn't answer the question directly, but I thought it might be a useful point of reference since Louisiana French was derived from Acadian French. Of course, the two dialects will probably have diverged by now given that the Cajuns have already been in Louisiana for over 200 years. The dog2 (talk) 18:13, 19 January 2021 (UTC)
 * In that video clip, the word you heard meaning "today" asteur. It is a common term in Louisiana French used to mean "now" or "today" and is synonymous with maintenant in European French. The term derives from a contraction of à cette heure. It's a good example of the numerous contractions existing in Louisiana French. 98.57.155.204 18:49, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Conjugation examples?
Would it make sense to include some example conjugations under 'Grammar'? At the very least, I can see that a full present tense conjugation table for avoir and être would be handy for travellers. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:42, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

 * I made a try. Those are awkward enough not to give much lead for recognizing conjugations of other verbs, but adding regular conjugations would require a more compact format. Perhaps a table with these two and two regular ones (out of three models – but there is room for just two columns) would make sense --LPfi (talk) 14:21, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Thanks for doing that. As stated in my edit summary, I think a table is a better format for conjugations than an infobox.

 * If we're going to add any regular verbs, there will have to be three to make it worth doing: one example each of -er, -ir, and -re verbs. I'm not so sure of the need, however, since this is not designed to be a tool for serious language learning, but a phrasebook for travellers to dip into. Avoir and être are common enough to warrant it, but are the likes of finir, or vendre, or écouter? Annoyingly, most of the commonest verbs, and the ones of most use to travellers, are irregular: aller, venir, voir, faire, acheter, manger, boire, sortir, dormir...--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:29, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Yes, a table is better and making it complete (2+3) is certainly better. My idea was to give people a general feel for the conjugations, not to let them speak correctly, a "nous écrons" here and there is no big deal in this context. --LPfi (talk) 16:37, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

 * How's this? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:15, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

 * Some may think this isn't needed for a phrasebook. I think it may be useful at least for recognizing conjugated forms. I think it is well written, although I must return to it sometimes later to really think about it. --LPfi (talk) 18:19, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

 * Details about grammar aren't needed for our phrasebooks, but if added in moderation I don't think they do any harm. Some other phrasebooks, including the star-standard Russian, and Sinhala also include some extra grammar info. Ypsilon (talk) 18:34, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

 * In any phrasebook I think just enough grammar to get up and running is always handy. Because of Russian's case system, that phrasebook necessarily needs a bit more grammar than usual, because it's impossible to hold even a simple conversation in Russian without needing a case other than the nominative.

 * So I'd say noun gender and articles are vital to even basic French (French people nearly always correct an incorrect use of gender in my experience), whereas adjectival agreement is not. Verb conjugation beyond what we've got is probably beyond scope, but a basic explanation is nice to have. The difference between vous and tu will save a traveller from embarrassment, while the difference between on and nous would just confuse him or her.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:10, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

 * The present indicative conjugation of regular verbs is rather basic in the study of French and is presented clearly. Any reader who isn't interested can scroll down, but I definitely think the inclusion of this chart improves the phrasebook. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:06, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

 * I think we might consider adding aller, because that's probably the next most common irregular verb. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:47, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Pseudo-pronunciation of "un"
I'm seeing "u(n)" in the article. If I didn't know better, based on that, I'd pronounce the vowel "oo" as in "soon" and would be very wrong. Pronouncing it with the English short "u" as in "but" is also wrong and might have worse results. However, I'm not sure how to clearly show the correct vowel in quasi-English pseudo-pronunciation. But I think the current version is bad. So what should we do? Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:16, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

 * ung? un(g)? ahn? I'm certainly not wedded to "u(n)"
 * Perhaps just un? I don't think pronouncing it as in "under" would be too incomprehensible, even with an English N sound. What else is "Un beer, sill voo play" really going to mean? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:20, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

 * "A sound between 'a' and 'u' for the vowel, then 'n'"? Ypsilon (talk) 18:19, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

 * I don't think it's between those two vowels. I suppose I'd represent it as "aeh(ng)" and then try to explain what the sound is (good luck - this is why we need sound clips). I'd say "ah(ng)" is the French word "en". Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:53, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Grand/grande
Shouldn't these be "grah(n)/grahnd", not "gro(n))/grond"? I don't think there's any "o" sound in either word. Also, I'm unsure the feminine shouldn't be "grah(n)d". Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:41, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

 * Similarly, "C'est urgent !" should be "seh toor-ZHAH(N)", not "seh toor-ZHAHN". The "n" is nasal. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:44, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

 * Another one. This is what's written:

 * Appelez une ambulance. (ah-puh-lay oon OM-boo-lo(n)ss)

 * This is the correct version:

 * Appelez une ambulance. (ah-puh-lay oon AHM-boo-lah(n)ss)

 * I don't have time to correct all of these right now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:47, 24 October 2019 (UTC)

Horaires d'ouverture
Per this edit, is this expression actually needed? And my answer is that it couldn't hurt and could only help, and we don't have any kind of extreme premium on space in our digital format, so why not include it? Your thoughts, ThunderingTyphoons!? Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:32, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I just had to pay for extra space on my Google Drive, so maybe I was subconsciously influenced :) I really don't mind putting it back in, it was just a thought that a long list of signs could be less effective.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:35, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't feel super-strong about this, but it is only one entry either way. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:48, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

 * When in doubt, err on the side of inclusion.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:03, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Untitled
French is a syllable-timed language and has no stress. Those capital-letter pronunciations should be put in lowercase. —The preceding comment was added by 2001:1C00:711:3500:E82C:3762:C9BE:E28F (talk • contribs) 19:47, 13 February 2021

title: Talk:French phrasebook


text:
Talk:French Polynesia

For future reference the Project:CIA World Factbook 2002 import can be found at Talk:French Polynesia/CIA World Factbook 2002 import.

American refugees?
I am not sure this is a reliable source, but it is an interesting story: French President Offers Refugee Status to U.S. Liberals. Would this extend to French Polynesia? Pashley (talk) 14:11, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

 * It looks like a dumb headline by someone who doesn't understand what Macron said (or a clickbaiter). Macron suggested that US climate change scientists may be more welcome in France than the US which isn't anything about providing refugee status.
 * Not sure about your question. Justice in French Polynesia is directly administrated by France so it is reasonable to beleive that a refugee claim here would be treated in a similar manner to France itself. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:10, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

Currency notation
So I'm seeing prices shown as "1000 F" more than half the time. The rest of the time, they are shown as "1000 XPF", "1000 CFP" or "1000 FPC", often not capitalized. Since "1000 F" is the simplest and most common, shall we set that as the preferred format at wv:$? Ground Zero (talk) 00:11, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. Ground Zero (talk) 02:26, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:06, 29 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Hinano beer.jpg

Banner
Current looks too similar to Polynesia. -- SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:56, 15 June 2022 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:French Polynesia


text:
Talk:Fresno

What about traffic congestion problems in fresno? What do you think would be a solution to this problem?206.78.58.65 21:56, 12 December 2006 (EST)Maria Ortiz

I removed upstairs downtown from the food section as they are no longer in business.

Right wing city government
I think it is pretty remarkable that city of half a million has had a Republican mayor for (at least) the last three cycles. If we can find reasons for this it would also bear adding them as said reasons can be interesting to travelers (e.g. Some political quirks of Utah are caused by its Mormon presence, certainly something of relevance to travel). But said addition was reverted. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:58, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * If it was last three cycles (I'm assuming you mean 12 years), then that's different. I think then that we should say that Fresno is a Conservative/GOP-dominated city. I just don't think a specific election is relevant. --Comment by Selfie City  (talk about my contributions ) 20:06, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * For the benefit of readers who don't follow US local politics, it would be good to list some of the practical changes that this has resulted in - e.g. is there more or less public transport, spending on parks, hotel taxes... Is the mayor directly elected? AlasdairW (talk) 20:27, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * My understanding is that this part of California is where the Okies went during the Dust Bowl in the 1930s, and it retains a degree of Oklahoman heritage. I'd say that if this is true and palpable, it's worth mentioning, and the city's tilt toward the Republicans could be mentioned in passing as part of the Oklahoman heritage. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:34, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) I agree with AlasdairW. But I don't see any point in including "Unusually for a city of this size, Fresno has a Republican mayor, taking office in 2017 after two term Republican Ashley Swearingen" in the text. However, if it said that Fresno is largely GOP dominated and as a result the majority of the budget has been spent on X instead of X, then that is different. It's all about ttcf. --Comment by Selfie City  (talk about my contributions ) 20:36, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * In response to Ikan Kekek, again I think that is a sensible way to put it. I just think a sentence with election info is not relevant to the traveler unless it has some relation to the traveler. --Comment by Selfie City  (talk about my contributions ) 20:39, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

 * I simply don't know who Swearingen's predecessor was. Hence "three cycles". Her eight years and the next guy is right wing, too...

Oh and I just looked up S.'s predecessor this bloke. That's not chance, that's a pattern. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:05, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

 * Other large cities in the US with Republican mayors include San Diego, Jacksonville, Fort Worth, El Paso, and Oklahoma City, all of which are larger than Fresno; and Mesa, Omaha, Colorado Springs, Miami, and Virginia Beach, which are close to Fresno's size. While a Republican mayor is less common than a Democratic mayor for such a large city, it's not that remarkable.
 * If the Republican mayor is mentioned as part of some other piece of information about the city (such as government services or Oklahoman heritage, as suggested above), then maybe it would make sense. Otherwise I don't see why it's worth mentioning. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:38, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

 * I think we mention the political leanings of one or several Berlin districts... Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:42, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

 * Briefly discussing the political leanings of the city overall might be worthwhile, and the bit about the mayor could be part of that. But just saying the party of the mayor doesn't tell the reader very much about the the city's politics overall—when it comes to local and state politics, there are still liberal Republicans and conservative Democrats (or at least centrist ones). For example, Massachusetts currently has a Republican governor and Montana has a Democratic governor. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:47, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

 * Thanks for doing this research, Granger. I think we should also turn back to Talk:Cycling in the United States, where we say that most US cities are Left-wing. --Comment by Selfie City  (talk about my contributions ) 18:48, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
 * My point isn't to say that all these places are conservative. My point is that even a liberal place can have a Republican mayor or governor. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:31, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks for the clarification — I should’ve said so earlier. And yes, I wouldn’t consider Miami right wing even if they have a GOP mayor. --Comment by Selfie City  (talk about my contributions ) 00:57, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Fresno


text:
Talk:Friesland

"Frisians have a well-earned reputation for bloodymindedness and distrust of authority" This is a contentious claim that needs a citation. (WT-en) GabeMc 21:13, 23 November 2011 (EST)

title: Talk:Friesland


text:
Talk:Frisco (Colorado)

Question
should "Real Estate" be included in the "Buy" section?? I personally dont think so, it sounds more of a solicitation than anything else. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Ralphzztop (talk • contribs)

 * Definitely not. I suspect that there are probably several specific policies that call out real estate as something not to include, but Apt is the first one that comes to mind.  I've removed the section. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 20:38, 28 May 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Frisco (Colorado)


text:
Talk:Frisian Lakes

@globe-trotter, I'm having some trouble determining the outlook and content of this article. It's a tourist area, not an administrative region, and it overlaps several of the geografic hierarchy articles we should have on Friesland. It's my understanding that we don't want double information, correct?

Details on the cities and villages should probably fall in the regular articles, and I see you are referring to the Sneek city article. There are 27 municipalities in Friesland, all comprising 5 to 67 different villages, so even in the lake district alone there's indeed way too much village/town information to fit into 1 article. I think this article should have a list of the main lakes, or perhaps we can use the satellite map from Wikipedia? . Furthermore, perhaps general information on navigation, the help-service (Eileen), important boating routes, basic info on the bridges, boat rental information, some hints for mooring options and interesting stops on route. Or did you have another vision of what we should be making? (WT-en) Justme 04:58, 26 August 2011 (EDT)

 * Yes, there are lots of different routes we could take. I was thinking first to make this article like Wijdemeren — adding several villages together into one article, as stand-alone they would be rather small. However, this area is quite large. In the future, it will consist of two municipalities: Zuidwest-Friesland and "De Friese Meren". We could also just include the latter future municipality in this article to limit its scope. Or, we could include all lakes of Frisia and turn it into a travel topic, it seems like that is what you propose. An example of that is Colorado's Wine Country. We could use that article as a guideline. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 08:13, 27 August 2011 (EDT)

 * Following the Colorado's Wine Country article is a great idea, I think. It looks like a very useful structure for this area too. I wasn't aware of the municipalities-change, but even then.. Zuidwest-Friesland now has 67 villages and towns, I think. Even though many of them are small, and might not have enough sleep/eat/see options for a stand-alone article, it's going to be a challenge to put them all in one article. I'm guessing that's also the case for the future municipality Friese Meren. We might have to consider a form of districts or something similar for such huge, rural municipalities. That's an interesting question for the geografic hierarchy, but as far as the tourist destination Friese Meren goes, I'd say it should have lots of boating / water sports info. For that, a travel topic seems better then. (WT-en) Justme 12:40, 27 August 2011 (EDT)

 * Defining a hierarchy for rural destinations has been an issue highlighted several times in the past months. But for now, there is no real guideline on how to deal with them. About the Frisian Lakes, I think this is a good way to go. We could write about water sports possibilities, which lake/destination offers what and offer some listings in the Drink/Eat sections. Eventually, though, it would be better if this would turn into a region article like South Limburg. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 12:58, 27 August 2011 (EDT)

 * Hm.. Frankly, I got stuck on South Limburg too :-) I created a good number of villages, but I don't know how to link them in the article, when only 9 cities + 9 other other towns are allowed. I do feel that it should have some sort of "list of all the towns", but that isn't possible within the guidelines, it seems. So I kind of just stopped creating those articles, as they would be poorly linked, usually only to the main village in their municipality. But well, that's another problem (although suggestions for that are welcome too :-)) I have limited time for a few days, but hopefully we can bring the Frisian Lakes up to usable level at least, this week. (WT-en) Justme 16:41, 28 August 2011 (EDT)

The future of this article
Ever since this article was created, the Frisian Lakes (Wiki) (Frisian: De Fryske Marren) have become a municipality of the Netherlands, which is roughly equal in size to the Noordoostpolder. I am on the fence about what the correct implementation of the article I have started for the municipality would be. The municipality does not cover all of the Frisian Lakes (some are found in Súdwest-Fryslân). Now, the options I have in mind are either: I should mention that the De Fryske Marren article as it stands now will replace Lemmer and Joure. Adding on Súdwest-Fryslân would also bring an end to Hindeloopen, Sneek and Stavoren (though removing Sneek is something I'm not one hundred percent comfortable with). I'd like to know how everyone stands on this and what you think would be the best way of implementing the new article. -- Wauteurz (talk) 20:41, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) List the municipality as The Frisian Lakes, which would replace this page. Info on lakes not in the municipality will have to be moved to a to be created article for Súdwest-Fryslân (or Southwest Frisia), which is the other municipality covered in this article.
 * 2) List the municipality as a stand-alone article as De Fryske Marren.
 * 3) Add Súdwest-Fryslân onto the drafted article for De Fryske Marren and move the content into the current article (which would in effect remove the extra-hierarchical status of this article). This would, however, result in a region roughly the size of the province of Utrecht or the Faroe Islands, which I wouldn't exactly label as an ideal size for a bottom level article, though doing so wouldn't be impossible either (I've written bottom-level articles for larger regions before (see: Land of the Red Rocks)).

title: Talk:Frisian Lakes


text:
Talk:From Istanbul to Cairo

Unsigned comment
Hello, can someone add some info regarding actually walking this route? Or, even a suggested route for walking? —The preceding comment was added by 69.39.103.27 (talk • contribs)

Vfd
Another personal itinerary of the type which we are to avoid. It has long been tagged with merge, but there is not really much of anything to merge that isn't already covered in the main articles. Thus, there is no reason to keep this for attribution since nothing has been merged, and it's not a reasonable search term, so a redirect is not really appropriate.
 * Delete - Texugo (talk) 15:52, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Keep Look at the Understand section. This is not a personal itinerary but a recognized route, and the article is at Usable status. The itinerary is not reasonable right now, as long as Syria is at war, but I see no compelling reason to delete the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:46, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't believe it is a single recognized route, but rather a recognized phenomenon that people have historically often passed between the two cities one way or another, which I don't think is really the same thing. If you look at the Go section, you can see that right from the beginning, no specific path is intended — it gives you like a dozen possible places to cross the Syrian border. Texugo (talk) 19:04, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I take your point but would then counter that neither is the Silk Road only one route, and fortunately, no-one is suggesting deleting that article. How does it serve the traveler to delete this article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:57, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, I was taking the fact that this has already been tagged for merging for two years as enough of a sign that we'd decided this shouldn't be its own article and was nominating it here in an attempt to clean up things which had become permanent fixtures of Category:Not an article. Anyway, the Silk Road is a famous, historical, established collection of established routes in a way that this appears not to be. If there is a specific set of routes connoted here, we need to express them. If there is not, it just seems like we're telling people to "go by bus from Istanbul to the place of your choice in the next country, and then from there to somewhere in the next country, and then go by bus from wherever that is until you get to Cairo. That does not serve the traveller; it's just a waste of space. Texugo (talk) 20:34, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
 * It's at least somewhat more specific than that. It gives several routes from Istanbul to Aleppo, but all of them start in Istanbul and go to Aleppo. After that, there is a series of listed, linked locations. It seems to me that it's sufficient to help someone plan a trip - when the war is over and the route is again reasonably safe. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:51, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

[undent] Request for comments Hi, everyone. Please have a look at this article and give an opinion, lest it be deleted because there are only two people taking part in this discussion, and 50% in favor of deletion is sufficient to deny a consensus to keep. If a majority think this article is worthless, fine, but it would be a shame for an(other) article to be deleted because of the opposition of a single person. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:43, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't object to having this route, but it needs a lot more details to be usable. How long does the itinerary take? As it is "not practical to pre-order bus or train tickets online", I think that the article needs to have full details e.g. "the #22 bus takes 6 hours and leaves at 9am and 2pm and costs ABC123". If it is to be kept, then it should be 'outline', and some warnings should be added. AlasdairW (talk) 20:50, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Keep and get rid of the merge tag, since that is rather silly. It does need work. Any volunteers? Pashley (talk) 18:23, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * We also have Cairo to Jerusalem by bus which is currently tagged for merging to Cairo. I'd say merge & redirect it to this article instead, and put links at Cairo#Go next and Jerusalem#Go next. Pashley (talk) 18:28, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Keep - I agree that the article's content has definite merit. --Nick talk 19:58, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Result: Kept - AndreCarrotflower (talk) 19:08, 28 April 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:From Istanbul to Cairo


text:
Talk:From Turkey to Indonesia: in less then 6 months

Um, the title of this article is wrong. Should be "than" not "then". Off-hand I don't know how to change.

 * Use the "Move page" link. It's fixed now, and I also removed the spurious colon.  That said, the article itself could use a lot of work, starting with linking all the referenced places... (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:08, 2 Sep 2004 (EDT)


text:
Talk:From Turkey to Indonesia in less than 6 months

Um, the title of this article is wrong. Should be "than" not "then". Off-hand I don't know how to change.

enough?
most places seem to be just not enouph for you... 1 or 2 days stops... I wander if your eyes (time and budget also) were big enough.


text:
Talk:Front Range

Cities List
Increased list to 9, but most of these are undeveloped. Please plunge forward! and help this area of Colorado grow!

Name must be changed
The name of this region must be changed! The Front Range is a mountain range that extends from Longs Peak to Pikes Peak. The Front Range Urban Corridor is an even more extensive area extending from Cheyenne, Wyoming, to Pueblo, Colorado. Calling North Central Colorado the Front Range is very confusing. This region should be renamed to the less glamorous but more geographically accurate name North Central Colorado. Yours aye, Buaidh (talk) 23:33, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Front Range


text:
Talk:Fuan

Is this the right spelling? Fu'an is common. We currently have that as a redirect. Should it be the other way around?

title: Talk:Fuan


text:
Talk:Fugging

I'm tempted to become a vandal and rename "DO" to "*******". I guess I have to remember The Lord's Paryer: "And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil." -- (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 00:44, 18 May 2006 (EDT)

Game of thrones accent?
The pronunciation description at the top of the article currently incldes "(imagine someone with a "game of thrones accent" saying the word and you are close)". That strikes me (a Canadian GoT fan) as nonsense. Does it seem meaningful to others?

Does it mean what I'd call a North of England accent, which several but by no means all GoT actors have? If so, why not just say that? Or would that be meaningless to many readers? Pashley (talk) 22:00, 18 August 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, this description is of limited to no usefulness. Game of Thrones is primarily filmed in Belfast with an international cast, so the correct term should then be an Irish-English or a British-English accent (but not an Austrian-English accent I guess?). Someone familiar with the pronunciation should pick which national or regional accent to correct to. Nicole Sharp (talk) 08:37, 20 October 2015 (UTC)

 * Well I think it was I who put that in there, sorry about that. It's probably that I meant the accent of either Bronn or one of the Northern characters from the show. The point it, it is more of an /u/ as in "book" or "huge" than an /a/ as in "cut" or British "can't" (I am aware that I have mixed up two different sounds in both cases). Though it would probably pronounced shorter than most Americans would think... Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:44, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

 * "Book" and "huge" have highly dissimilar vowel sounds, at least for most Americans. "Book" rhymes with look, cook, nook, rook, and schnook. "Huge" rhymes with "stooge", "Scrooge", and has the same vowel sound as "luge". So which of this two distinct vowel sounds is it more like? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:27, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

 * I'd say the former. And I am fully aware of the fact that they are two different sounds. But most German speakers would write them down as /u/ (ignoring for a second whether you pronounce huge with an h or without and with an "y" or without). In Southern Germany and Austria (as well as modern standard German) "ck" means the vowel preceding the c is "short". In some parts of Northern Germany (today only realized in names of places and persons) it means the vowel preceding the c is "long" (e.g. Mecklenburg is pronounced with a long e, even though most Germans get that wrong) Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:36, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

 * OK, I will revert my own provisional reversion, then. But the fact that German speakers have trouble distinguishing the "oo" in "book" from the "oo" in "boo" is not helpful to English speakers trying to pronounce an Austrian town's name correctly, if you confuse the issue by conflating the two vowels as if they were the same. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:45, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

 * They are not the same, at least not to a German speaker. But they are represented by the same letter. So some German speakers might say they are "variations of the same sound". If you ask a German to describe the difference between e.g. the letter "u" in "suchen" and "zucken" they would say "suchen" contains a "long u" whereas "zucken" contains a "short u". Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:49, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

 * I suppose some English speakers would talk about "long oo" and "short oo", too, but as you know, our language is not spelled phonetically like German is. The things I like best about German are that it's phonetical and capitalizes all nouns all the time. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:52, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

 * I too like those two aspects of German spelling. I even heard of a study that showed "German" capitalization enhances reading comprehension and/or reading speed. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:55, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

 * I wish we did the same thing in English. Too bad no-one pushed that reform through. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:57, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

 * I am with you. Unfortunately there is not even an organization or individual with even the theoretic potential to get that done. At least for French or Spanish there are institutions that have theoretical power to do so. (Even if the reaction might be similar to the one to the 1996 reforms to German orthography) Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:14, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

 * There was Noah Webster in the 19th century. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:16, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

 * True, but there is still a bit of debate about those reforms he proposed that were not adopted on both sides of the Atlantic. And some of his proposed reforms were never widely adopted on either side of the big pond... Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:25, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Name change?
Fugging hell: tired of mockery, Austrian village changes name Pashley (talk) 03:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

 * Ah well. If it's going to be official, we'll need to change the name on January 1, too. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:07, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

 * Will we? Don't we use the most common name in English? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:52, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

 * Reading the article, I'd say it's more likely that this place would cease to be of interest to travellers, and it could be redirected to the nearest significant town.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:05, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

 * Yeah, I think you're right, given that the only attraction other than the "Fucking" sign is the surrounding countryside, which doesn't need to be covered by an article about this village. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:25, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
 * There was a consensus at w:Talk:Fugging, Lower Austria to rename the Upper Austria one in January but maybe since the main interest is the name here we maybe don't need to do that straight away, we should maybe also point out the other Fugging that was also called "Fucking" until 1836. Since we don't have a crystal ball I'd wait and see if it indeed does cease to be of interest to travellers before deciding to merge, the municipality Tarsdorf doesn't exist here and neither does Braunau am Inn its district. Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:23, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

 * For what it's worth, Braunau am Inn (an oddly fitting name, given the meaning of "Braun") was the birthplace of Adolf Hitler... Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:29, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I'd create an article on "Braunau am Inn" describing both the town and the wider district and if needed we can merge later like what we did with some Greater Manchester towns like Horwich into Bolton its district. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:03, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
 * As an interesting point unlike on Wikipedia where notability is not temporary that probably doesn't apply here since this is a travel guide juts like it will be interesting to see what happens to the COVID-19 pandemic article once its over. I suppose maybe it would be merged (though I don't know where and there's probably too much content to merge anyway) but most of the content here could relate to the district (or municipality) such as stations with additional information on how to specifically get to the village which could be covered in such article. Anyway in 5 or 10 years time I'd be interested to see what happens to both articles! but as noted we can leave this alone for a while anyway. Crouch, Swale (talk) 12:38, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

There's no rush. I agree with Crouch, Swale that we should see what happens (both in terms of which name ends up being most common and whether the village keeps being of interest to travellers). —Granger (talk · contribs) 17:02, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, I've updated the name in the article text and created a Fugging redirect but I'll wait to see if we need to rename or merge in the future. Crouch, Swale (talk) 13:14, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I wonder if there should also be redirects for "Boinking", "Boffing" and "Shagging". Mrkstvns (talk) 17:10, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I assume you're joking, but there is a real place in Pennsylvania called Intercourse. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:28, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

See
"The Fucking locality sign at each entrance to the village." Wouldn't the Fucking sign have been replaced with Fugging? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:08, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Fugging


text:
Talk:Fueda park

VFD Discussion
An attraction, not a destination.

 * Merge with Kamakura and Delete - (WT-en) Texugo 00:44, 26 November 2009 (EST)
 * Merge, and possibly redirect, as this would stop a future creation of the same attraction article. (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) Talk 06:09, 26 November 2009 (EST)
 * Merge and redirect. The capitalisation is wrong though so I guess a redirect should be there for Fueda Park as well. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 06:21, 26 November 2009 (EST)

Result: Template:Merge added to the article -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 13:26, 2 May 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Fueda park


text:
Talk:Fujian

Table
Err, do we really need a HTML table for the list of cities? It's somewhat daunting for new users to edit and I'm not sure what value it adds... (WT-en) Maj 15:21, 2 January 2007 (EST)

 * Is there a better way? Wiki markup table? I just used HTML because I know it. There's a something similar in Yangshuo article too. (WT-en) Pashley 23:13, 2 January 2007 (EST)

 * Changed it to a Wiki list. You're right, it is better this way. (WT-en) Pashley 04:14, 4 January 2007 (EST)

Moved festivals
I deleted the "festivals" section here and put the information in the China article. These are not unique to Fujian. (WT-en) Pashley 22:33, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Style
Looks great! Nice work. (WT-en) Maj 00:45, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Photos
I just deleted an entire section added by an anon user, links to photos:
 * Wuyi Mountain Photo Gallery
 * Xiamen Photo Gallery
 * Fu Zhou Photo Gallery
 * Mei Zhou Island, Pu Tian, Photo Gallery
 * De Hua Photo Gallery
 * Nan An Photo Gallery
 * Quan Zhou Photo Gallery
 * Zhang Zhou Photo Gallery
 * Nanjing Village, Nanjing (Fujian Province) Photo Gallery

This seemed useless to me (some nice shots, but much crud too) and, more important, it seemed to fall outside our "primary sources only" policy. Other opinions? (WT-en) Pashley 22:54, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Other destinations
I've deleted a bunch of stuff there that described "attractions" rather than "destinations" in Wikivoyage terms — temples, parks, etc. Most were already covered in city articles and I moved others to the relevant city. Here's what's left over:

 * Zuo Hai Sea World, have the Museum of Tropical Rain Forests, Marine Museum, the performing Seals Museum, Museum of Underwater World, and a shopping center. The Sea World displayed a variety of more than 100 kinds of marine life, including ferocious great white shark, the gentle leopard sharks, the shark Fuji. There are colorful tropical fish, "Prince of Africa", "American Hua Mao", alligator, elephant fish, butterfly fish, and other rare species. It is one the unique large-scale underwater world in the southeast coast.

 * Yunlong Bridge is a spectacular covered bridge near Luofang (羅坊) in Liancheng County. It is over 300 years old and is in excellent condition. Just nearby there is a large statue of Mazu.

 * Forest Park, one of the nine forest parks in the country which is located in northern of the city. Its surrounded on three sides by mountains while the other faces the river. The entire park is divided into five parts: Mid-Asian tropical evergreen broadleaf tree region, South-Asian tropical jungle region, Banyan tree region, region of wild fruit trees in hilly country and off-shore r wood region. It also includes a rare botanical garden and a rose camellia garden.

These clearly don't belong here. Do they belong anywhere? (WT-en) Pashley 04:12, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

Map?
The current map is clearly wrong, or at least misplaced. It depicts the position of Fujian within China but is titled "Regions of Fujian". Ideally, I suppose we'd have both. At any rate, we need a map that actually shows the regions.

However, a quick check on Commons does not show a regions map and I do not know how to import the one from WT. Any volunteers to fix this? Pashley (talk) 04:01, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Please don't do anything in cases like this. The map is on Wts and either has been moved to Commons or will be moved to Commons later. All of these problems will be handled by the "move to Commons" process eventually. --Stefan2 (talk) 13:27, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

 * Does this still apply? Pashley (talk) 22:43, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

 * It has now been fixed. Thanks, Peter. Pashley (talk) 03:55, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Pagebanner
Joe young yu substituted this banner:

This was the banner:

My feeling is, the new banner is sharper but the old banner is more unusual and distinctive, so I mildly prefer to restore it. What do you think, and why? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:59, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

 * I prefer the old one. Pashley (talk) 10:33, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

 * Any other opinions? I think we should revert the substitution within 24 hours or less if there is no objection. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:22, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

 * The new banner looks stretched to me. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk | contributions ) 20:30, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

 * I'm going to go ahead and restore the old banner. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:49, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Renaming regions
Based on what the common names in Chinese are, I think we should rename the Southern Coast area as South Fujian, the Northern Coast area as East Fujian, and Inland Fujian as West Fujian. Of course, the complication in this is that Putian is not considered to be a part of South Fujian, so perhaps a workaround will be to split Putian off into a separate region. The dog2 (talk) 16:55, 12 November 2019 (UTC)
 * A number of towns have been moved to be under other cities. Is there a plan to change the city articles formats to huge cities and districts or merge the articles? Looking at current status of Chongwu, Gulangyu, Haicang, Hui'an, Jimei, Mawei, Shishi, Tong'an, Xiang'an, --Traveler100 (talk) 14:38, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of any such plans, but personally I would be in favour of creating huge-city articles rather than doing mergers. Admittedly, some of those district articles look very sparse at the moment. If necessary, I could probably add a number of skeleton listings to justify their existence. STW932 (talk) 15:31, 21 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Many of those are suburbs of the larger cities, so I'm not sure what the convention would be here. We seem to do things differently for different Western cities. For instance, we treat the suburbs of Chicago as separate cities here, but on the other hand, the suburbs of Melbourne are treated as part of Melbourne. My view is that we should consider practicality here first and foremost. If it's officially part of the city but located in some remote, distant corner where it would be impractical for you to commute downtown on a daily basis, it should be listed as a separate village/town/city. But if it is a suburb of the city in question, then we can include it as part of the city. Remember, the traveller comes first. The dog2 (talk) 15:57, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

 * The city/prefecture ambiguity is ubiquitous in China. See Talk:Fuzhou for one previous discussion & links to others.
 * Fuzhou prefecture includes Mawei but Mawei is far from the main town & I think it should definitely not be included in a Fuzhou article. Mention that is near Fuzhou & in Fuzhou Prefecture, but let the breadcrumb point to the region, not to Fuzhou. Similarly for Quanzhou & Chongwu, Hui'an, Shishi.
 * Xiamen is a harder case; in the Chinese system it is a "prefecture-level city"; there is no separate prefecture; see Xiamen. Haicang, Jimei,Tong'an & Xiang'an are administrative districts. Gulangyu is not administratively distinct, but seems to me to rate its own article since it is a major tourist draw & a World Heritage Site.
 * I think Xiamen is OK as it stands, but could probably be improved using a huge city structure like what we have for Macau & moving most of the content of the current article to Xiamen/Island. Pashley (talk) 05:37, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

 * I have no objection to restructuring the Xiamen article as a huge city one. If there are no other objections and someone is willing to do it, I'd say go ahead. The dog2 (talk) 17:13, 22 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Until the changes to huge cities, districts and merges are done, I have fixed the broken breadcrumbs set back to put city articles under regions. --Traveler100 (talk) 10:53, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

I think all three renamings -- quoting User:The dog2 "rename the Southern Coast area as South Fujian, the Northern Coast area as East Fujian, and Inland Fujian as West Fujian." -- were mistakes. To me the original names were clearer. I'd move all these articles back to them. Pashley (talk) 05:23, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

 * I was just moving them to the most common names, or at least the English translations of their most common Chinese names. Xiamen, Quanzhou and Zhangzhou are known collectively as 闽南 in Chinese, which literally means "South Fujian". Fuzhou and Ningde are collectively known as 闽东 in Chinese, which literally means "East Fujian". When possible, I think we should default to the most common names for our article names, but let's see what others say.

 * Any thoughts? The dog2 (talk) 05:43, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

 * Yeah, Minnan (South Fujian) is used even in English, but I've never seen Min Dong (East Fujian) outside of dialect discussions & I spent several years living in Fuzhou. Pashley (talk) 06:39, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

 * Both Chinese Wikipedia and Baidu Baike have articles on 闽东 (East Fujian), which explicitly says that it covers the geographical area of Fuzhou and Ningde. I understand that Putian is traditionally not considered to be part of South Fujian, but most accepted theory is that the Minnan, Teochew and Hainanese people migrated down to their respective regions from Putian, which would explain why those dialects are quite similar, and is also why I grouped it loosely with South Fujian. And if you believe Wikipedia, the Putian dialect has more lexical similarity with the Minnan dialect than with the Fuzhou dialect (I only speak Minnan, but not Putian dialect or Fuzhou dialect, so I can't verify this independently).
 * By the way, if you want to move West Fujian back to Inland Fujian, I have no objection. I used that name for convenience，but it doesn't look like there is a common name for that region. The dog2 (talk) 07:34, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I was pinged, but I don't know enough about Fujian to have much of an opinion on this one. My vague inclination is to defer to Pashley about what names make sense for an English-speaker visiting the province. —Granger (talk · contribs) 13:43, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

 * How about the compromise I suggested then. Let's keep the South Fujian and East Fujian names, since they are the actual proper names of the region in question. Then we can move West Fujian back to Inland Fujian, since the term is only being used in a descriptive sense in this instance. The dog2 (talk) 21:58, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * OK Pashley (talk) 23:15, 7 May 2020 (UTC)
 * You'll probably have it do it though, because I don't have the administrator privileges needed to delete the redirect for the move. The dog2 (talk) 18:30, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

 * ✅ Done.
 * Would you accept an admin nomination? I'd be happy to make one. Pashley (talk) 23:07, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

 * I don't know. I don't like I'm the right person for it, but if the community feels strongly about me becoming one, I'm willing to consider. The dog2 (talk) 23:50, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Heavy drinking
User:The dog2 recently added "Unlike in northern China, heavy drinking is not part of the local culture in Fujian." I've lived in Fujian & consider this nonsense.

Checking, I find he or she has added similar claims in the Hainan, Hong Kong & Guangdong articles. I'm not sure about Hong Kong, but I'd certainly revert the others. Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 06:15, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Were the people you met actual Fujian locals, or were they migrants from northern China? I have many relatives of Fujian ancestry, and they do not typically drink baijiu. In fact, the majority of Chinese people in Singapore are descended from immigrants from Fujian, and there is just no tradition of drinking baijiu. The dog2 (talk) 06:23, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

 * The Chinese I knew were nearly all from either Fujian or Sichuan. They did not often drink baijiu but they certainly put back a lot of beer & wine. Some of the rich ones also drank a lot of cognac. Pashley (talk) 06:31, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

 * OK, adjust accordingly then. I will agree that there are people who drink a lot of wine and beer. Baijiu is definitely a lot more common in northern China. But I will say binge drinking is not really part of the traditional culture unlike what you get in northern China or the West. The dog2 (talk) 14:09, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

 * ✅ Edited here & added some text at Chinese_cuisine. Pashley (talk) 00:25, 7 August 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:52, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Foochow pic.PNG

Largest city
I deleted a claim Xiamen is the largest city. WP gives much larger numbers (8 million vs. 5) for both Fuzhou & Quanzhou. Pashley (talk) 13:24, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Fujian


text:
Talk:Fujigaoka

As far as I understand this is actually just a chunk of Nagoya city. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:57, 6 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Should we just redirect there then? — (WT-en) Ravikiran 12:57, 6 August 2006 (EDT)

 * How about renaming to Nagoya/Meito to keep current contents since Fujigaoka is a district in Meito Ward, Nagoya City. --(WT-en) Episteme 13:42, 26 September 2006 (EDT)

Redirect or Delete
So this article hasn't had anything added of significance since 2006 and the above comments show the merge suggested at that time as well. There are other places named "Fujigaoka" around the country, so I could support deleting it. There is nothing I see written here worth merging. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 06:37, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Fujigaoka


text:
Talk:Fukui (prefecture)

Clerical Error?
Can someone verify the "Understand" section about the "clerical error" in the part about Fukui's name?? I call BS on it. The name comes from a well which is located in the middle of Fukui castle.

(WT-en) osarusan 09:07, 25 January 2009 (EST)

Removed following due to lack of source
Although the characters for Fukui means "lucky well" (福 = lucky or fortunate 井 = well - ie. water hole), the name of the prefecture is the result of a clerical error when the city was first incorporated several hundred years ago. The name was originally meant to be 福居, pronounced the same, but meaning "luck resides here."

 * Restored it, with a bit of a rewrite. The alternate spelling 福居 is common in historical sources. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:17, 7 April 2009 (EDT)

See
The See section right now is a listing very similar to the Cities and Other destinations sections. Duplicate listings, meh. What is the best way to fix this? I'm thinking that most entries in See can be merged up, and a paragraph could summarize the general nature of the sites (i.e., beaches, temples, mountains). -Douglaspperkins (talk) 01:47, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The sites in the See section come from the sites in the listings. It is not considered a "duplicate listing" for a prefecture's See section to talk about sites within the prefecture, which will all obviously be mentioned in the cities/towns in which they are located. Most of the current city listings do not even mention the sites listed in the See section. You can write a paragraph if you want, but whether it's a paragraph or bullets, it won't be useful without mentioning the sites. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:03, 22 August 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Fukui (prefecture)


text:
Talk:Fukuoka

Introduced drink and Sleep seems advertisement, isn't it? --220.109.40.109 09:57, 28 December 2006 (EST)

 * "Drink" and "Sleep" are perfectly normal sections for a city article. Do you have problems with any particular listings there? -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 10:28, 28 December 2006 (EST)

NAKASU
Well, there's nothing about NAKASU yet. And I don't think Kabuki and No really represent what Fukuoka is about. We need more about the vibrant-ness and youth of the city.

Edit on Mami-chan restaurant
I deleted an opinion on this listing, which noted that the ramen was "no good." I changed it to a more tactful description, highlighting that the restaurant is known for its other menu choices and not its ramen.

Edit to Infinity in the Drink Section
The description of events was outdated, last update was 2007. The website for an Infinity did not promote these events.

Concerning bike parking
When I travel to Tenjin, I park my bike on the same block and pay ¥100 for the whole day. I think this is important information to have on the wiki- stating that there is pay to park for bikes, at a very reasonable price.

 * Plunge forward! (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:43, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

Thanks. Did it.

Tour of Hakata
I was trying to follow the instructions, but it ended miserably before reaching the first goal (marching three kids under 6 yrs through 37 degrees weather is no fun). I "posthumously" noticed it would be much better if we started it at Gion station instead of Hakata. I added the hint; maybe somebody could add the time needed (should be about 5 minutes). (WT-en) JanezDemsar 10:46, 10 August 2010 (EDT)

Linking to blog?
The following change added a link to a blog about restuarents in Fukuoka. I guess it isn't touting because it is listing all restuarents, but I'm not convinced it is allowed. Does anyone know? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 04:54, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

 * No, it's not allowed, based on a different policy: external links. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:08, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Fukuoka


text:
Talk:Fukusaki

Damn you, Damn you to hell Tex!
I was just boiling it all down to a few usable entries without Wikipedia content :o)
 * Sorry, too slow! Don't worry, it's all still there over on Wikipedia! (WT-en) Texugo 00:00, 6 November 2008 (EST)
 * Right, but now I just can't be bothered now (sneaks away cursing at overly effective janitors) :o) (WT-en) Sertmann 00:02, 6 November 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Fukusaki


text:
Talk:Fukushima (prefecture)

What do people think about moving the warning to the body of the article? The effects of 3/11 are likely to be long-lasting in the region due to the contamination of the evacuation zone. (WT-en) Aziraphale 22:34, 2 October 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Fukushima (prefecture)


text:
Talk:Funabashi

Funabashi is a city in Chiba Prefecture. And Funabashi and Chiba city are the different locations. It seems not to be appropriate to redirect to Chiba. --(WT-en) Mastake 19:42, 3 August 2010 (EDT)

 * I don't see enough Funabashi-specific content to warrant a split at the moment. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:16, 3 August 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Funabashi


text:
Talk:Fundamentals of flying

All discussions previously found here have now been moved to Talk:Flying.

title: Talk:Fundamentals of flying


text:
Talk:Funen and Surrounding Islands

Naming
I find it strange to name this region Funen and then have a subregion called Fyn (the Danish name for Funen). How about changing Funen to something like 'Funen and surrounding islands' or 'Funen Islands' or 'Central Islands' or something else, and then change Fyn to Funen?, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 17:12, 25 July 2010 (EDT)

 * A suggestion made in Talk:Denmark. /Yvwv (talk) 23:24, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Funen and Surrounding Islands


text:
Talk:Funerary Temple of Merneptah

Is this a destination in itself or should this be merged into another article? (Where is this place anyway, Luxor?) (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:42, 18 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * My opinion is that whilst some Egyptian temple sites, Karnak for example, could form their own page (in order to reflect their size, complexity and wealth of sights within them), others - such as the funerary temple of Merneptah (whilst beautifully reconstructed with regard to its foundations and with a fantastic small museum) - really do not warrant a separate article at this stage.... FYI The Merneptah temple is located adjacent to the famous Ramesseum (my own favourite temple on the West Bank of Luxor) and is well worth a visit - too many visitors give this a miss.... In any case, I would suggest VfD on this one and transferring the content back to the main Luxor West Bank page (I'd be happy to write a bit more on the temple itself.... Expanding the West Bank sights has been a task I've been putting off for a while now....) So that's my tuppence worth - any other opinions? (WT-en) Pjamescowie 02:01, 19 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * I think this was a pretty clear-cut case of "wait until PJamesCowie tells us if the template needs a complete article." :-)  VfD after merge then. -- (WT-en) Colin 03:36, 19 Jul 2005 (EDT)

title: Talk:Funerary Temple of Merneptah


text:
Talk:Fustic

Merge quickly or delete. There is no helpful info and Fustic appears to be incredibly small. This page is just a joke as far as I can make out! (WT-en) Shep 13:53, 26 January 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Fustic


text:
Talk:Futami

Merge With Ise
Futami is a region of Ise, and as one of Ise's most popular destinations, it just seems to make more sense to get rid of this page. There really isn't much in the Futami area to warrant creating a new page. Anyone oppose merging? (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 09:32, 20 April 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Futami


text:
Talk:Futuroscope

Could this listing be integrated into Tours, Paris, or some region or town nearby? --(WT-en) Evan 13:35, 19 January 2007 (EST)
 * See following discussion. The integration should be to Poitiers if anywhere, but there are actually a number of hotels that advertise themselves as being at Futuroscope as an address.  It'd be nice if someone with first-hand experience of the place would weigh in here. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 12:35, 19 February 2007 (EST)

Futuroscope
Delete - A Theme park, but unlike Disneyland, you can't sleep here (as far as I'm aware) therefore it doesn't fit with Project:What is an article?. -- (WT-en) Tim 11:29, 30 January 2007 (EST)

 * Keep, redirect ~ 61.91.191.2 11:45, 30 January 2007 (EST)
 * Keep, at least for now. It appears that there is lodging there, after a fashion, and that it's really associated with the park.  A merger with Poitiers seems reasonable once that article is populated, n'est-ce pas? -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 10:36, 15 February 2007 (EST)

Delete - A Theme park, but unlike Disneyland, you can't sleep here (as far as I'm aware) therefore it doesn't fit with us IMO.

title: Talk:Futuroscope


text:
Talk:Gabon

For future reference the Project:CIA World Factbook 2002 import can be found at Talk:Gabon/CIA World Factbook 2002 import.

This text removed from comments in the quickbar. - Can anyone translate this French, or is it spam? -- (WT-en) Huttite 04:41, 25 May 2004 (EDT)

Internet au Gabon: des Asoociation telles que le Forum des Amis du Net font de la formation et de la sensibilistion en milieu jeunes, parmi les portails sociaux les plus en vue, http://www.coopgabon.net ou encore http://www.gabontech.com

"Internet in Gabon: Associations, such as the Net-Friends Forum provide for training and consciousness raising for young people. Among the social portals most commonly seen are http://www.coopgabon.net and http://www.gabontech.com"

The first one seems like sort of a useful offsite link, while the second one is sort of like yahoo Gabon. I'll leave it up to somebody else to decide what is and isn't appropriate. -- (WT-en) Mark 04:59, 25 May 2004 (EDT)

Regions
Gabon seems to have three geographic regions and I propose splitting along those lines: Coastal Plain, Highlands and Savanna. The split would look approximately like this rough and ready topo map. The Highlands/Savanna split mostly follows the course of the Ogooué river. Need some inspiration on region names. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:52, 23 January 2010 (EST)

 * That looks like the right split to me. I was going to suggest a division that would keep the rainforest in its own region, until I realized the whole freaking country is rainforest. It's also almost entirely Bantu and Francophone, so no good cultural divisions to be made. I think we should keep "savanna" out of the article title—when I hear "savanna," I envision flat plains like the sort you would see in southern or eastern Africa. The savanna here is completely covered by jungle. This map isn't free, but is useful to get a lay of the land, and to find the locations of the national parks. This one  is useful too.

 * I'm having trouble finding good names too, possibly because there just isn't very much information about this country online. For the coastal region, maybe something cheesy like "Mangroves, beaches, and lagoons?" Highlands → "Jungle Highlands?" Savanna → "Jungle Interior?" --(WT-en) Peter Talk 12:13, 23 January 2010 (EST)

 * Good maps, especially the 2nd one. We might have to stick to something horribly bland for the coast like "Coastal Plain (Gabon)". It is shame that the central highlands are made up of two ranges. That scuppers a neat solution. Savanna is for sure misleading for the non-botanists out there (i.e everyone!). Lowland Rainforest (Guyana) and Highland Rainforest (Guyana)? I am totally uninspired today. Of the official provinces, five have Ogooué in their name. I am though struggling to see how we can fit in the river name. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 12:26, 23 January 2010 (EST)

 * This division looks fine to me. The guidebook I have divides Gabon into "The Coast", the "Western Interior", the "North & East", and the "South-east". The last two roughly correspond to the "Savanna" region in the map. The problem with the book is that it doesn't have any descriptions of the regions (it only lists info for cities in these regions), so I don't understand why the author split the eastern part of the country. (WT-en) AHeneen 17:02, 23 January 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Gabon


text:
Talk:Gaborone

Very nice site. I enjoy your webcam the most. Beautiful scenery! Keep up the great work.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:50, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
 * WV Gaborone banner Debswana HQ.jpg

 * This is the pagebanner, and I think deletion is pretty much a sure thing because of the reasoning: "There is no freedom of panorama in the copyright law of Botswana, and these freely-licensed (CC BY/CC BY SA/PD) images have no permission from the architect. The building in question was completed in 1996."

 * Do we want to save this pagebanner? If so, we need to upload it locally. Your thoughts? Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:45, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Noooooo my stylish banner :( Also, as Gaborone apparently was built from scratch in the 1960s, probably other photos of buildings will be deleted too sooner or later, so it could be a good idea to upload those as well (the lead picture is already locally uploaded). Ypsilon (talk) 15:11, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

 * OK, I'll take care of this by tomorrow if no-one else beats me to it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:24, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Done. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:04, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:24, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Three Dikgosi Monument - March 2010.jpg

 * Uploaded locally. I wish freakin Commons paid us for this work... Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:40, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
 * No, not another one. But thanks for uploading it though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:47, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. US Army photo. Over 2,000 views on Flickr since 2010, and nary a peep of objection from the Botswanan Government, evidently, yet it freakin violates theoretical copyright rules, so overzealous fucking Commons will delete it. Maybe we should be using Flickr instead of Commons as our repository of free images. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:53, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Especially [the user who we all know who] who I spent my entire lunch break trying to explain why I proposed to strip his special rights and yet he calls that a fucking threat! I'm no longer going to upload any of my personal images to commons, and unless I feel like it has better use on Wikipedia or Wikibooks, I'm uploading them locally from now on. In my opinion, this bullshit could be avoided if "someone" did their research better and slowed down their pace. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:09, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
 * To be fair, this nomination was by a different user, it wasn't a speedy deletion nomination, and it's frankly appropriate per Commons policy; it's just that rules sometimes come up against common sense, and rules win at Commons. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:12, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, and I have to say, I'm not finding JTWiltz12345's deletion noms a problem. They space it well out, and make sure that there's a gap. A1Cafel meanwhile does not. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:21, 20 July 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gaborone


text:
Talk:Gabrovo

I am pulling the article for the moment owing becuase to trouble with my user name. I have saved the HTML version of the Gabrovo entry in a text file on my computer, so the work is not lost. However, I made an error when I registered as "NatureParkBulgarka." I am an American Peace Corps Volunteer working at Nature Park Bulgarka, but I should have registered as "RoberttSullivan1973", my usual handle under these circumstances. Any assistance you can provide will be appreciated. (WT-en) NatureParkBulgarka 09:23, 28 December 2010 (EST)

Concluding: I feel the entry on Gabrovo is wrapped up nicely. Thank you, everyone, for your support. (WT-en) RobertSullivan1973 06:56, 5 January 2011 (EST)

Listings
I have standardized entries under "See" and "Eat" using the Listingify format. (WT-en) RobertSullivan1973

title: Talk:Gabrovo


text:
Talk:Gadag (district)

What a strange little article! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:35, 2 May 2010 (EDT)

City of Gadag has merged with city of Betageri to form a council called Gadag-Betageri. This Gadag-Betageri is the Administrative Headquarters for the Gadag (district). Will try and clean up some of the listings and will need decisions as to whether to make Gadag-Betageri a city article and move some of the listings to there. - Matroc (talk) 05:37, 28 September 2015 (UTC)

Spent some time changing UPPER CASE to Initial Caps etc. Also did a lot of alphabetic ordering as well as formatting. Need someone more familiar with the area to add more information etc. The work on this District article should I hope make life a bit easier for others to contribute - Matroc (talk) 09:34, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

I've removed the lists of temples, movie theaters, banks, and foods. They were not useful for travellers. Wikivoyage is a guide, not a directory. These were all posted in 2009, anyway, but they are probably out of date. I will also remove the lists of restaurants and hotels. Ground Zero (talk) 03:10, 1 February 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gadag (district)