text:
Talk:Mexico City/Santa Fe

the eat section
I reformatted the section to use the listing style and made a couple copyedits, but the descriptions still suck in general (apologies to whoever started it). I left Chili's in the list to give benefit of the doubt to whoever might be interested in it, but come on, did we really need to include an entry for Starbucks? (WT-en) psychofish 23:17, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mexico City/Santa Fe


text:
Talk:Mexico City/Tlalelolco

vfd discussion

 * Delete. Spelling error; "Tlatelolco" is correct, and the obvious Mexico City/Tlatelolco page exists with the same (minimal) content as this one. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 12:59, 4 March 2006 (EST)
 * We could rename to Tlalelolco and redirect to Mexico City/Tlalelolco for all of us who have problems with spelling. -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 10:32, 6 March 2006 (EST)
 * Redirect. -- (WT-en) Ryan 18:28, 7 March 2006 (EST)
 * Is it really desirable to redirect spelling errors like this rather than just getting rid of them? This one looks like a pure typo that could be dispensed with without inconveniencing anyone. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 22:59, 17 March 2006 (EST)
 * The current policy says "If the name of the article is wrong (for example, if there's a spelling error, or if it doesn't conform to our article naming conventions), try to rename the page instead of copying all its contents to a new page and then deleting it." (WT-en) Huttite has made a pretty strong case that redirects don't hurt, and I've come to agree as long as people aren't proactively trying to create redirects for things like spelling errors. -- (WT-en) Ryan 04:19, 19 March 2006 (EST)
 * Understood, but in this case (and the one below), the "new page" already exists. I presume that the deletion policy is there to spare editors unnecessary work (i.e., transferring content manually from page to page) and thereby encourage the tidying-up of things like this.  That is sound policy, but I don't think the policy is intended to address cases where somebody has already done the work to populate a corrected page.  But whatever. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 18:17, 19 March 2006 (EST)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Mexico City/Tlalelolco


text:
Talk:Mexico City/Tlatelolco

Merge
I think this article should be merged to Centro because it mentions only the Plaza de las Tres Culturas, which is already on the Centro page, isn't too far from Centro (just one metro stop away). Tlatelolco as an area doesn't seem to have enough anyway to warrant its own district article, and isn't even listed on Mexico City's list of districts. Finally it hasn't been edited since 2006 and is pretty much an orphan. (WT-en) psychofish 22:51, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

 * Sounds like a good idea to me—it's not even displayed as a separate district on the map! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:00, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mexico City/Tlatelolco


text:
Talk:Mexico State

I used the name "Mexico State" rather than "Mexico (state)" since I found it listed on at least Dmoz that way. --(WT-en) Evan 11:35, 10 Dec 2005 (EST)

title: Talk:Mexico State


text:
Talk:Miami

Untitled
Hmmm, there's a lot of inline Wikipedia links in the Understand section. It would be nice if there was a sentence or two in the article if there's stuff people need to know, otherwise maybe add these as real Wikipedia links? (WT-en) Majnoona 20:03, 24 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Is Miami a huge city
Does Miami need to follow the Huge city article template? For example Miami Beach says it is now a city but was a suburb. There appear to be other localities or districts in the area too. -- (WT-en) Huttite 19:07, 7 Jan 2005 (EST)

 * Yes, Miami is a world city, and as of 2006, it's the 4th biggest Urban area in the U.S... It's huge.67.35.103.202 20:13, 23 August 2007 (EDT)

 * Well, more than a year later, I'm going to ask this again: Huge city? I think the asnwer is yes! Just look at the Buy section and how it mentions different districts as locations. I'm going to take a stab at a start and hope that someone who knows the area will follow up. (WT-en) Majnoona 13:14, 22 Feb 2006 (EST)
 * eh, now I wonder... should there just be a neighborhood description area instead? Is there really only one area where travellers/ tourists visit? (WT-en) Majnoona 13:16, 22 Feb 2006 (EST)

This has got to be the most poorly written wikivoyage entry. Did someone from Miami write this?

 * I see that someone has now created an article on "Little havana" (sic), which (poor capitalization aside) seems to be a first, halting step toward a Miami "district." The article nothing much, but maybe it can be an incentive to start a district structure that actually works.  Anybody?  I've moved that one to Miami/Little Havana; go forth and do likewise/better. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 09:11, 14 December 2006 (EST)

 * Over a year later, I still see this city as consisting of neighborhoods and not of huge districts that are of interest for the traveler. I feel like some of the districts could be deleted, if not all of them.  (WT-en) THE evil fluffyface 10:12, 22 September 2007 (EDT)
 * Well, keep in mind the problem of making the article useful, and one of the components of that is making sure it's of manageable size. Yes, progress on giving Miami the treatment it deserves has been frustratingly slow, but I'm pretty sure that if all the attractions of this huge city were well treated, the resulting single article would be impractically large, and that's why districts are used.  The entire point of districts as sub-pages under a huge-city article is to allow a sensible and comprehensive treatment of neighborhoods without the root article getting too large.  The root article then includes language that points the reader at the right district to find the neighborhood.  Not all district articles need to be treated at great length; if there aren't any museums, night clubs, etc., in a district, just say so. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 11:19, 22 September 2007 (EDT)
 * I agree wholeheartedly with Bill on this. It can initially be difficult to move things out to the proper districts (and then to patrol out everyone wanting to put listings to the city), but it ends up being much better for the reader by making it more readable, better organized, and a better overview of the area as a whole.(WT-en) OldPine 12:57, 22 September 2007 (EDT)

Don't know if it helps your problem much, but I edited the introduction to make a distinction between Miami and the Miami Metropolitan Area(Gold Coast or South FLorida). Could someone expand the article "Florida Gold Coast"????? (WT-en) AHeneen 18:07, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

 * I re-edited your contributions. The problem we have, common to all large cities, is that everyone wants their business listed in the city rather than in whatever suburb or city district they are really located. Some contributors also have the philosophy that suburban attractions should be covered in the big city article. It's not so much a misunderstanding of the metro area as it is these forces working, IMHO. (WT-en) OldPine 19:25, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

American Airlines jet photo
(If anyone just so happens to stumble on this page), Do we really need it? (WT-en) THE evil fluffyface 10:31, 1 August 2007 (EDT)
 * No, we don't. I'd say remove it from this article. I'm not sure it would be useful in any Wikivoyage article other than possibly Fundamentals of flying (to illustrate for the skeptical that these giant metal contraptions can, in fact, get off the ground). (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 10:40, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

Crime
Who wrote this??? It's batshit insane. Miami is one of the most dangerous places in America. The article is total bullshit, and needs to be changed. We don't want tourists coming here and getting killed because they were dumb enough to believe that "public transit is generally safe in Miami" or that "Downtown and Miami Beach are safe." Zip code 33130, for example, has a personal (murder, rape, assault, robbery) crime rate of 667. To give you a comparison, Compton California's worst section scores only 467. New York's Marcy Projects, in the Bedford Sty, score a 170. Even Detroit's worst is 561. The only places in the U.S. as dangerous as Miami, are Camden and East St. Louis. So, rethink that. And about public transit, the metrorail is not very safe, or clean for that matter. I've seen enough crap on there (litteraly and figuratively) to know that!67.35.103.202 20:13, 23 August 2007 (EDT)
 * I re-edited the Crime section because I felt that it was too long and I felt like it originally did put off tourists to Miami. This is a travel wiki, not Wikipedia.  Please acquaint yourself with Wikivoyage's policies first and then, if you feel like you can re-edit the Crime section so as to not scare off people from Miami, feel free to do so.  As for myself, I stayed in Miami three days and was not harmed in any way.
 * Oh, and you might want to slow down and check the spelling of your words in your rage. (WT-en) THE evil fluffyface 09:47, 25 August 2007 (EDT)

Test
This is a test for starting a discussion. /Fred
 * Congratulations, you succeeded. What would you like to talk about? (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:07, 9 May 2008 (EDT)

Talk
The writing in the talk section seems to be a bit condescending to the locals that don't speak English. What is the vibe towards non English speakers in Miami? Is this true, or can it be rewritten in a better tone? Thanks. --(WT-en) MarinaK 14:33, 13 June 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
 * I think the talk section is great in that addresses the issue of non-English speakers. It is true that most (at least 80% or so) speak English even if it isn't their native tongue. Because of the large numbers of people who do not speak English, there is not a negative vibe towards them. Could you explain why you think it should be rewritten in a better tone? (WT-en) AHeneen 18:03, 2 September 2008 (EDT)

Images aren't working
Hi. Several of the images in the Miami article aren't appearing. I've tried to fix them- i.e put _ where there are spaces, but it doesn't work. Can someone please fix them? --(WT-en) MarinaK 14:43, 1 October 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.
 * This is a technical problem. See "Thumbnail shows up as gray box" at wts:Project:Travellers' pub -- (WT-en) Sergey kudryavtsev 15:22, 1 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Thanks Sergey. I've posted my problem over at Wikivoyage/Shared. --(WT-en) MarinaK 15:27, 6 October 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.

Deletion
Hi. I deleted the following review as the restaurant has now closed- *Wolfie Cohen’s Rascal House, 190 Collins Ave, +1 305 947-4581 – Sun-Thu 6:30AM-1AM, Fri-Sat 6:30AM-2AM. Rascal House is now a thing of the past. Closed March 2008. Jewish deli food. A Miami institution since 1954, Wolfie’s used to serve the Rat Pack after performances. It’s still beloved today because of its retroactive vibe. $8-$30 per person, per meal. Thanks. --(WT-en) MarinaK 14:49, 6 October 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.

Districts and classification
I want to see if I can get some consensus on how to classify Miami Beach: should we consider it a part of Miami, since most travelers won't care about the legal distinction, or not? I submit to you the South Beach article, which is currently classified as Miami/South Beach. Yet Miami Beach and North Miami Beach are its own separate articles. So, I would propose that Miami Beach be classified as Miami/Miami Beach, or we change South Beach to Miami Beach/South.

In addition, Downtown Miami is also its own article, when it should probably be renamed to Miami/Downtown. (EDIT: OK I just did it, seeing as how someone else on the Downtown talk page asked the same question.) (WT-en) psychofish 09:59, 18 June 2010 (EDT)

 * I think they should obviously just be seen as Miami. To avoid confusion, I created Miami/North Beach and Miami/Mid Beach articles, but they can be changed if necessary. Now it's important we get a full and detailed district scheme worked out and get it in place. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 13:34, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

 * Hmm, many articles were already created elsewhere and this led to confusion. Pending this discussion, for now I have moved all the Miami Beach areas to Miami Beach, including the districts. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 03:45, 16 October 2011 (EDT)

 * I'm also not terribly sure whether we should merge Miami Beach and Miami. After looking at them for a long while, I'm a little tempted to leave them separate, but link the two heavily. --[[User:Peterfitzgerald|Peter]] [[User_talk:Peterfitzgerald|Talk]] (talk) 20:52, 9 September 2012 (CEST)

Districts

OK, with the Migration saga, I haven't had a chance to do what I love to do in months—working on travel content! So here's a pleasant distraction for anyone else who feels the same way.

As you can see from the map to the right, The current districts scheme is a mess, with huge gaps in coverage, and a few articles that cover too small an area.

See my proposal below. I feel fairly confident that the eastern districts make sense, but I'm pretty uncertain about the western ones. I'm pretty sure Liberty City, Allapattah, that sort of western "tail", and Coral Way all have relatively little for travelers, but if we combined them all, that would probably be too big an area. (We could just do that and split them up later, though.) I just can't speak to those areas too well, since I personally have no experience with them, and the internet hasn't informed me much more.

In the proposal map, you can see I included Miami Beach districts, but as above, I don't feel certain about whether we should merge the two municipalities. --Peter Talk 20:52, 9 September 2012 (CEST)

 * For anyone interested, this is how my proposal (including Miami Beach) compares with other districts schemes:

 * {| class="wikitable" border="1"

! City ! Total bytes ! Districts ! Population ! Land area ! Bytes/district
 * Miami
 * 196468
 * 15
 * .5 mil
 * 143 km²
 * 13091
 * }
 * }

 * That's actually a lower content to districts ratio than I'm comfortable with, and this is starting to look like too many districts. Combining Liberty City, Allapattah, and "I don't know what to call this" into a West Miami district, combining Coconut Grove and Coral Way into... Coconut Grove-Coral Way, and combining Design District, Little Haiti, and Upper East Side to North Miami would at least cut down the districts number to 11, and I think would still be pretty coherent. Part of the problem is the underdeveloped Mid Beach and North Beach articles, which I assume could hold a lot more content than they presently do.

 * Anyone from Florida around these days to comment? --Peter Talk 18:13, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * A pretty minor difference, but including Miami Beach brings the population to over .5 mil. Texugo (talk) 20:47, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Good point, fixed. --Peter Talk 21:59, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

I have put up a second draft, combining the groups I mentioned above to reduce the number of articles, and I'm pretty happy with it, but we desperately need someone who knows Miami reasonably well to comment. Two issues stick out in my mind, with the first being a simple question: could we combine North Beach and Mid Beach into "Mid and North Beaches," or something like that, maybe with a better name? I think those are going to be pretty thin articles on their own (and right now, they're both basically empty, while South Beach looks pretty good).

The second question is really tricky, and it's what to do with the islands in the city of Miami: Pace Picnic Islands, western Venetian Islands, Watson Island, Port of Miami, and Virginia Key. The Pace Picnic Islands have beaches used by boaters and are closest to Midtown (but not accessible from it). the western Venetian Islands, Watson Island, and Port of Miami are all accessible by road from Downtown, so I guess we could put them there (despite obviously not being part of Downtown). Virginia Key is a terribly awkward problem. There is a park and beach there, and it's accessible by road from Coconut Grove very close to the boundary with Brickell. It's part of neither, but I guess it would be easiest to lump it in with Coconut Grove-Coral Way. So I guess the most confusing one is Pace Picnic Islands—unless someone else has an opinion (anyone? Bueller?), I'll just toss it in Midtown for lack of anywhere better to put it.

Here's the updated table, without combining North and Mid Beaches:

--Peter Talk 05:45, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

The first draft proposal I think is the best. Some suggestions: 1. I'd label the islands "Islands of Biscayne Bay" or similar; 2. Change Midtown to "Wynwood/Edgewater." This area is not called Midtown, that's a common misconception; 3. Differentiate the colours between Allapattah and Liberty City, and 4. The no name area should be called "West Flagler/Flagami" or just "West Flagler." I would also add in Coral Gables to this map. That in itself, especially, the Miracle Mile neighborhood is an area tourists like to visit, particularly for its historic architecture. Hope that helps.--Comayagua99 (talk) 02:22, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

 * Yet another dead districts discussion. Hello? Anyone interested in Miami's districts? Any Floridans around? User:AHeneen? User:Mathew105601? Otherwise I suggest we add back the map of the current districts to the article. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:15, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

 * I am a Floridian, but my focus is on North Florida. Looking at the discussion my only input is to be careful not to create places, but cite what already exist. When you start talking about merging pages and content and subscribing new names for this content you are treading on creating a false account. Regardless of what some think of wiki, people do adhere to the ideas placed on these pages. I can't say that West Miami isn't a true designation, but would it be right by the communities that exist in that area to cite it as such; Would the population self identify? By creating these names you risk destroying the identity of an established community. Wikivoyager does differ from Wikipedia, since it is more as a travel tool than an encyclopedia, but names are still important. My advice is to tread lightly, but plunge forward.

 * In Jacksonville's case it has massive amorphous areas understood by the populace at large. There may be sub-communities in these areas, but the citing of larger areas is common and not destructive to the smaller identities within. It has a pretty well established second tier grouping system, which is partly due to its nature as a consolidated city. I can't say this for Miami. Mathew105601 (talk) 13:20, 2 March 2014 (UTC)

 * I've added the old map back as it reflects the current district division. The map was probably removed because a new district division was discussed. However the persons starting this discussion are probably gone for good and I know nothing about Miami so as for now there isn't going to be any change in the district structure. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:44, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Not gone for good, just haven't been around WV lately (busy on other projects/tasks). I don't really have much to contribute. South Florida is in many ways like a foreign country. I've only been to Miami 3x (twice to depart then return from MIA, one afternoon for about 5-6 hours). I really don't know much about the city, especially not enough to work on districts. Sorry. AHeneen (talk) 06:57, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

 * I referred to Peter and Comayagua :). Anyway, I've returned the old map. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:14, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

If you are still looking for opinions, I have some. Coconut Grove is OK the way it is. There are several places people might want to visit there. The area called Coral Way should be unnamed. Nothing to see there. The place called Little Havana should be extended a few blocks south all along its length. Calle Ocho is not the boundary of Little Havana, it is its heart. The entire green area should be unnamed. Nothing to see there. The islands belong to the county, not the city, but they should all be called Key Biscayne. GroveGuy (talk) 09:04, 28 June 2014 (UTC) Eek! I'm all red. Is this Wikipedia? GroveGuy (talk) 09:04, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Needed info discussion for "Get in"?
As noted in article "South Florida", the Port of Miami is arguably the largest cruise port in the world. Though 90 or so percent of cruisers don't "get in" (instead, go on cruise round trips from there), a brief description (in this article) of the port layout, facilities, terminals, cruise lines, local lodging and parking, etc. might be quite helpful for "our" cruisers. Regrets, am not qualified to draft decent discussion. As an aside, such discussion might be recommended for all articles about major cities/cruise ports. Regards, Hennejohn (talk) 19:10, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

uber?
maybe a line about uber saying they are much quicker and cheaper... you know since we all know how reliable miami taxis are... —The preceding comment was added by 151.40.90.227 (talk • contribs)

 * We don't all know because some of us haven't been there (or haven't been there since 1969, in my case). I'd say sure, add a sentence to that effect. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:21, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

 * Um... idk how to edit articles :p anyways taxis need to be called (305-444-4444 is one of the numbers), they usually take 15 minutes IF there is a taxi in your area (there usually isn't) and 99% of the time do not accept credit cards. Uber usually takes between 1 and 5 minutes unless you're in the middle of nowhere, Ultra or Art Basel or some other thing is going on, or if the bridge is up. Lyft is faster than yellow cabs too but slower than Uber and slightly more expensive. Price wise, yellow cabs are way more expensive and won't accept credit cards even if they have the machine (will usually say that it is broken). If a yellow cab was $25 (plus tip so about $30), Uber would be $12 and Lyft $15/16. Also you can request an Uber at the airport and while it'll take 10-12 minutes because MIA is retarded, it's way faster than waiting in that crazy line for the taxis (can take over 30 minutes on a good day) and Miami will probably be way more humid and way more hot than wherever you're coming from so there's that. Taxi drivers at the airport will also try to rob you like everywhere else - I got one who told me it would be $45 from MIA to Brickell which is ridiculous.
 * also the districts need working on... Miami looks anorexic from what is currently there. Also I would recommend adding Key Biscayne and Coral Gables either in the districts or with a note like Miami Beach because while they are their own cities I think, they are usually associated with Miami. Also the university of Miami (largest private university in Florida I think) is in Coral Gables along with a number of shops, restaurants, landmarks, etc.
 * Space Miami is also not the best nightclub in Miami lol! There's about two inches of alcohol on the floor and too much ratchetness... LIV/Story/Mynt/E11even/etc. (there's a bunch of them I don't club that much anymore so idk) are way better nightclubs... the only good thing about Space is that it's open till 2pm I think if that's what you're into
 * Jamaican patois is also widely spoken so maybe add that? (not half as much as Spanish/Haitian creole/Brazilian Portuguese though.
 * Last thing: Art Basel needs to be added to the events thing (right under Ultra). It's extremely popular and people come from all around the world to show their art/see other people's art. —The preceding comment was added by 5.90.128.172 (talk • contribs)

 * You haven't been officially welcomed to Wikivoyage yet, so I'll send you a welcome message with links. But you do so know how to edit an article: This talk page is an article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:43, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Consulates
I think this should be uncontroversial, but I moved listings for consulates in Miami here from the Florida article and moved listings for consulates in Coral Gables and Fort Lauderdale to those articles, leaving a summary and pointer. This is standard Wikivoyage style, and I think it's most useful for travelers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:34, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Miami scams video
Unfortunately, this was posted to YouTube, so I have an Invidious link. Choose an instance to watch a video on Miami scams and note that some of the content may be incorporated here as it is city-specific: https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=4Msx8cJP3TU —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:30, 6 June 2022 (UTC)

Warning on expressing left-wing political opinions
Shouldn't we have some form of warning on this? To my knowledge, much of Miami's population is comprised of right-wing political refugees who fled socialist governments in Latin America, so wouldn't it follow that they would be exceptionally hostile to anything hinting of leftism? For instance, there are many Cubans who fled Fidel Castro's revolution, and many Venezuelans who fled the Hugo Chavez government. And Brazil's former president Jair Bolsonaro lives in Miami too. The dog2 (talk) 23:37, 31 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Biden won Miami-Dade County by 7 percentage points. Please only add claims to articles that you know are true, not that you guess "would follow" from other things. And please stop trying to stir up political drama. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:49, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Sing it, brother/sister. Ground Zero (talk) 01:08, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Why would someone want to travel to a place for expressing political opinions, though? At least from visiting Orlando and the area around it, politics never came up in conversation once. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 03:23, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Miami


text:
Talk:Miami/Downtown

Move?
Is this a real district. Should it be Miami/Downtown? --(WT-en) inas 19:47, 10 December 2009 (EST)
 * I think so, so I just did it. (WT-en) psychofish 10:01, 18 June 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Miami/Downtown


text:
Talk:Miami/Little Havana

="Understand" section plagiarism?=

The following section was completely lifted from the website it links to. I've removed it for now. (WT-en) psychofish 11:41, 2 June 2010 (EDT)

Understand
As you can figure out from its name, it is a representation of the capital city of Cuba in Miami. Little Havana is a very Cuban part of the city and has a lot of charm and interest. If you have never visited Cuba, which is probably the case, it is as close as it gets. Sounds, tastes and rhythms are Cubans; speaking Spanish is a definite plus. Having a "deadly" strong coffee in a Cuban coffee shop after a rich lunch or dinner in inexpensive but good quality Miami restaurants is a must as well. We suggest the "Versailles". The people-watching scene is exceptional with old Cubans playing Dominos and smoking cigars. Calle Ocho as it is called is not to be missed.

Little Havana (Spanish: La Pequeña Habana) is an ethnic enclave in Miami, Florida, with many Cuban immigrant residents. Little Havana is named after Havana, the capital and largest city in Cuba. The high number of Cuban refugees in Miami is due to its proximity to Cuba. Little Havana is famous as the cultural and political capital of Cuban Americans, and the Miami neighborhood is a center of the Cuban exile community.

In recent years increasing numbers of Nicaraguan, and Puerto Rican immigrants have moved into the neighborhood, as increasing numbers of Cubans leave the area for the suburbs in western Miami and southwest Broward County. Part of Little Havana is now occasionally referred to as Little Managua after Managua, the Nicaraguan capital, although the city of Sweetwater several miles to the west is more popularly known as Little Managua due to its higher concentration of Nicaraguan Americans.

title: Talk:Miami/Little Havana


text:
Talk:Miami/Overtown

This is a completely inappropriate entry. Nothing is cited, other than the mention of some murders and defining the area as a ghetto.

 * I think you are right, this article is totally inadequate. Since this is a travel guide, we don't use citations (who ever heard of a footnoted travel guide?!), but it is certainly lacking content. As this is a wiki, please feel free to plunge forward and add some useful content! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 04:25, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

Edit war!
(To Jpatokal) I'd like to come to a compromise. Let's just say that Overtown is not a safe place to visit in Miami--at least during the day--or consider deleting this article if we can't improve it at all. Seriously, would you want your hometown to be called a ghetto? I think not.

And keep it clean and leave the edit war on this page and not my talk page. Thank you. (WT-en) THE evil fluffyface 17:05, 25 September 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Miami/Overtown


text:
Talk:Miami Beach

South Beach
I'm thinking that Miami/South Beach should be incorporated into this article and not as a separate district in Miami because technically South Beach is part of the city of Miami Beach. I'm not sure if a lot of people agree with me on this, though. (WT-en) THE evil fluffyface 17:53, 3 October 2007 (EDT)
 * As I'm editing these Miami pages I've moved a lot of stuff into the South Beach article, actually, and I think it's important to keep up the distinction from the rest of Miami Beach because of how well-known it is as a district. As for Miami vs Miami Beach, I thought maybe we don't make that distinction because most travelers won't know the jurisdictional boundaries, even though they are two different cities. In other words I actually think Miami Beach should also be considered a "district" of the Miami article. However, I don't know how well this works, it's definitely just my opinion. (WT-en) psychofish 18:23, 18 June 2010 (EDT)

Deletion
Hi. I deleted this from the hotel section as it looks like spam: hotels 8th street collins street miami beach miami south beach cool hotels on collins ave in south beach Miami south miami beach hotels between 10th and 16th street all south beach miami hotels and resorts on ocean drive beachfront hotels in south beach miami south beach miami ocean front with balony hotels hotels in south beach miami on collins avenue. --(WT-en) MarinaK 21:05, 30 September 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.

Deletion on hotels
Hi. I deleted these hotels as the same chains but different locations were already listed:
 * Best Western South Beach, 1050 Washington Avenue, +1 305 674-1930, Toll-free: +1 888 343-1930, Fax: +1 305 672-0646.
 * Courtyard Miami Beach South Beach, 1530 Washington Avenue, +1 305 604-8887, Fax: +1 305 604-8868,.
 * Loews Miami Beach Hotel, 1601 Collins Avenue, +1 305 604-1601,.

Thanks. --(WT-en) MarinaK 21:52, 30 September 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.

Districtified?
Two of the three district articles are fairly short (Miami Beach/Mid Beach and Miami Beach/North Beach). Did Miami Beach really need to be districtified? Should the districts (including Miami Beach/South Beach) all be merged into the parent article? (I'm proposing, not volunteering.) --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 01:01, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
 * The South Beach article is long, though. Is there any way to subdivide that into more than one article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:33, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
 * True (704th longest WV article), but the Miami Beach "parent" article itself isn't very long. Might be easier to transfer content from parent & other districts to South Beach and then move SB to Miami Beach. --Nelson Ricardo (talk) 01:47, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I think the logical thing to do if there's a decision to merge the content is create subsections for each district in each of the relevant sections ("Sleep", etc.) and merge the material here. I don't see why we'd want to transfer content to the South Beach article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:09, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Miami Beach


text:
Talk:Miami Beach/South Beach

Deletion
Hi. I deleted this musuem- *Maurice Gibb Memorial Park (18th St. and Purdy Ave.) as I could not find any info on it at all. --(WT-en) MarinaK 21:07, 29 September 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.

I just added 1 Hotels South Beach
I didn't realize I wasn't logged in until after I posted it, if anyone knows how to associate me with that addition please do. They open tomorrow and I would appreciate if someone could read over my description to make sure it's ok and falls within the guidelines. I am waiting to hear back on the price. VerbInteractive (talk) 17:11, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Update, Price has been added VerbInteractive (talk) 17:30, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

 * The description looks fine to me. I question the alt, though. My question would be, is the name what's given at the "name" tab or the "alt" tab. That's a relatively minor point, but it's the only thing in the listing that seems at all questionable. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:16, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Thanks for reviewing the listing, the reason I put in the alt that way because it's the official name and a lot of other listings are listed that way if someone was looking for more info, but I felt the average traveler would have no use for homes so I didn't want to make that the name. Please advise if you feel it's redundant and I can remove it. VerbInteractive (talk) 10:29, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

 * I see nothing wrong with listing under the official name. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:51, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Miami Beach/South Beach


text:
Talk:Miami Gardens

Merge
I took a look at this one earlier today, and while normally articles created by our special friend are candidates for speedy deletion, Wikipedia lists this one as an independent city with a population of 100,000 - WikiPedia:Miami Gardens, Florida - so I'm not sure we should convert it into a redirect to Miami. That said, I know nothing about the area so if there isn't any practical distinction then a merge makes sense. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 03:46, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I've removed the merge tag, but please re-add if there is a reason why this city shouldn't get its own article. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 13:19, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item is missing permission
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item is missing permission information and may be deleted: You can see the details at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:52, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Calder Casino boasts a 100,000 sq. ft. gaming floor.jpg

title: Talk:Miami Gardens


text:
Talk:Miami Springs

Merge
I took a look at this one earlier today, and while normally articles created by our special friend are candidates for speedy deletion, Wikipedia lists this one as an independent city with a population of 13,000 - WikiPedia:Miami Springs, Florida - and Colin's hotel maker lists it as an independent city (User:(WT-en) Cjensen/project/hotelmaker/Florida) so I'm not sure we should convert it into a redirect to Miami. That said, I know nothing about the area so if there isn't any practical distinction then a merge makes sense. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 03:47, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I've removed the merge tag, but please re-add if there is a reason why this city shouldn't get its own article. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 13:18, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Miami Springs


text:
Talk:Miaoli

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Comments
I started this page because I used to live in Miaoli and I love the city. I hope others can help me by filling in other details. (WT-en) Beetdiggingcougar 02:56, 2 February 2011 (EST)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:38, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Taiwan High Speed Rail (Logo Only).svg
 * ✅ Uploaded locally. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:00, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Miaoli


text:
Talk:Michigan

To 65.23.83.42, Sorry about the reversion. I was trying to deal with another vandal and a section that you were working on that seemed to have a lot of info removed. Thanks for all the work put into this page. -- (WT-en) Brendio 20:00, 20 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * Yes, good information... albeit suffering from the common Detroit-area misconception that the the state only extends as far west and north as Jackson and Flint (e.g. listing Lansing's airfield but not G.R.Ford International). I'm working to correct that. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 10:20, 9 April 2006 (EDT)

Regions
Is it possible to change Western Michigan to West Michigan? I tried making the change but learned it needs to be discussed first, sorry about that.

Would it perhaps make sense to split Southeast Michigan into Southeast Michigan and Flint/Tri-cities? I'm planning to make a Michigan regions map, and the one I'm looking at right now is. Thoughts? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:11, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

 * Also, I'm not sure of which counties belong in the other lower peninsula regions. Does the map I linked above get that right? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:15, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

There's still a L.P.-centric tone in the Michigan page. Too little reference to what's available in the U.P. I've been filling in a lot of material, specific stuff for travelers, on the U.P.'s page. Feel free to cross-link material from there to here, but do something. Michigan doesn't end at the Bridge. M. 23:26, 27 January 2013 (UTC)Mjz (talk)

Foreign cars
There seem to be disagreement about this paragraph: "If you are renting a car, it is suggested that you rent an American car to avoid offending anyone." I've reverted a removal as i have first hand account of someone getting in trouble. (WT-en) Sertmann 14:13, 12 November 2008 (EST)
 * People really get pissed about that? Don't Americans like German, Italian, and Japanese cars?  What about Toyota and Hyundai or Daimler?  Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee  talk 14:17, 12 November 2008 (EST).
 * Yeah, my friend were driving a Hyundai as far as I remember (not sure if there is something special with Korean cars). Guess a Daimler (whatever that is) would be OK, since it's the same owner as Chrysler - and i guess it's mainly in Detroit and surroundings. (WT-en) Sertmann 14:32, 12 November 2008 (EST)

 * That is so wierd. I don't get that and I've never seen it the times I've been in the US.  That is so odd!  We definitely don't have that problem in Canada.  Hrrrm...that is just cruel and pretty dumb ,why would people be like that?  It's retarded-no offense Americans though I'm sure that most of yeh on here don't do that.  But wow.  Don't Americans like Porsche and Lexus-don't they crave foreign vehicles-I mean it's on their TV lots.  Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee  talk 14:51, 12 November 2008 (EST).

 * You're not getting it, it's not Americans, it's the 10.000's of laid of auto workers, their relatives, and remaining colleagues from the auto industry in Detroit, that takes offense. (WT-en) Sertmann 14:53, 12 November 2008 (EST)
 * Ooooooooh, so it's more of a Detroit auto industry thing. I don't think they have it in Windsor, Detroit's twin.  Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee  talk 15:03, 12 November 2008 (EST).

Cities
An anon added Ann Arbor to the list. I have reverted back to our maximum of nine items per list, but it does seem like Ann Arbor belongs in that list! Just take a look at the Ann Arbor article compared to others here. There are several that could be swapped out for it, but I'd say Saginaw would be the most obvious candidate. Opinions? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:54, 27 July 2012 (EDT)

 * I'd suggest either Saginaw or Holland (Michigan), and I'd lean towards dropping Saginaw simply because Holland has a bit more for travelers. As the home to a major university I would think Ann Arbor would be a bigger draw than either of those two, and that article is at star status and thus worth highlighting. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 02:02, 27 July 2012 (EDT)

 * Ann Arbor is already listed, under "Other Destinations", hidden behind a link that reads "University of Michigan". I completely oppose having two links to Ann Arbor.  (WT-en) LtPowers 11:40, 27 July 2012 (EDT)

 * Wouldn't it make more sense to remove the non-standard University of Michigan entry? We wouldn't drop Columbus from the Ohio article and replace it with an other destination of Ohio State University, or (to use a similar-sized city) include an "other destination" of Cornell University in the New York (state) article instead of listing Ithaca as a city. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 11:53, 27 July 2012 (EDT)

 * Sure we would, and why not? See, for example, Mid-Atlantic, where we list "Gettysburg Battlefield" but link to Gettysburg.  Or Pennsylvania where we have Gettysburg again, and "Pennsylvania State University" linked to State College.  Neither of those cities has any business being in Pennsylvania#Cities; they are notable only for the non-city destinations they host.  I see no problem with putting them under Other destinations.  Ann Arbor's more akin to Ithaca than State College, I will admit... but it's either/or here, not both.  (WT-en) LtPowers 21:28, 27 July 2012 (EDT)

 * Please. Ann Arbor is a MAJOR destination in southeast Michigan. Saginaw is not. If we must keep Saginaw, put it in "Other Destinations" and move Ann Arbor up to "Cities." Thousands of people visit Ann Arbor every year, and that's just for the football games.  Add in the Art Fair, Summer Festival, Folk Festival, Film Festival, the UM Musical Society's annual calendar of events, and all of those restaurants, and Ann Arbor is a major destination.  Mjz (talk) 14:47, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

 * I agree (still)—not only does Ann Arbor belong there for objective reasons, it's also one of our best articles and I'd like to see it highlighted. I've swapped out Saginaw for Ann Arbor. Please feel free to revise my one-liner about it, though—I've somehow never been. FYI, "other destinations" means destinations other than cities, so Saginaw definitely shouldn't be listed there! --Peter Talk 08:47, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

 * Thanks for moving Ann Arbor up to the "Cities" section. Although, if wikivoyage is to be about travel, tourism, and exploring the world, then I would have to argue that "Cities" and "Destinations" is an artificial distinction.  As a frequent traveler (most recently to London UK for the Oly Games), I would find it more useful if the emphasis were on Destinations, whether they're cities, museums, natural areas, or what have you.  To determine what makes a destination 'major' or 'minor', we could start by looking at how many 1000s of people are drawn to a destination every year.  This is documented online in a number of free online sites, such as Wikipedia and Michigan.gov. Mjz (talk) 18:34, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

 * Yes, it's somewhat artificial, but our experience has been that shorter lists are better; dividing the list of "shortcut" destinations into "Cities" and "Other" allows us to have twice as many as we could with just one list. LtPowers (talk) 19:09, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

 * Any reason for not splitting "cities" into subsections (on the same page) by size or geography once there are more than nine? Creating yet another useless subregion (and corresponding region article) every time we have ten villages is a bit much if everything in the newly-created region page (except the city list) is empty.
 * That said, "museums" would not have their own pages as they are almost always in cities (where they appear in "see" as listings). "Natural areas" occasionally might be stand-alone articles if they're Jellystone Park-sized (3500 square miles in three states) but the local "conservation area" goes into the city article. That usually leaves "Other" for travel topics, itinerary or huge rural areas with a handful of small villages like Thousand Islands or Rural Montgomery County. K7L (talk) 19:27, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Itineraries go in See, not Other Destinations. (Though, now that I think about it, maybe Erie Canal should be in New York (state)...  LtPowers (talk) 19:57, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * I've seen an "interesting towns" section before—maybe something worth considering. But that's a discussion for Wikivoyage talk:Region article template. --Peter Talk 21:04, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Why not discuss it here? Is the template a guide, or chisled in stone?  I think a section on interesting towns would be a great idea.Mjz (talk) 21:39, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It's pretty chiseled in stone. We're only supposed to deviate from it if there's a compelling reason particular to the region (there isn't here). We could put one in here as an experiment/example for such a discussion, though. By the way, I put the wrong link there, and have updated it to point to the article template. --Peter Talk 00:31, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Michigan Grandmother has started selling her Cherry Vodka
As stated in the news, now there's cherry-infused vodka, made by a grandmother who came from Germany, no less. Given her backstory (barring cherry-infused vinegar?), I think the vodka could be appropriate to drink to the German language songs Ergo Bibamus, Krambuli (Here's a shorter, but livelier version) and Sitz ich in froher Zecher Kreise. Zum Wohl, everyone! --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 22:13, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

1800s Corduroy Road uncovered in Grand Haven Township
From the news article "Construction project uncovers 1800s road" and I quote: "Community Development Director Stacey Fedewa says the Tri-Cities Historical Museum in Grand Haven is planning to use some of the historic roadway for a future exhibit." --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 01:51, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

Understand
Why is image like that? It looks confusing to readers. Ated0t (talk) 17:36, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

 * I added a caption. Is it less confusing now? Read also the text about this way to see the state. –LPfi (talk) 18:33, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Michigan


text:
Talk:Mid-Atlantic

What's listed for the East Coast is technically the Mid-Atlantic region. The East Coast covers Maine through Florida.

- CSP

 * Mid-atlantic is a much better term, actually. --(WT-en) Evan 16:10, 4 Dec 2003 (PST)

Cities
I'm not totally set on the cities currently listed. Perhaps swap Rochester for Albany? Neither are really great travel destinations though. There are, however, some more good travel destinations that are very small cities (like Princeton). If anyone ever takes an interest in changing the 9 listed cities, I'll be watching this page and will help out. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 02:05, 24 August 2007 (EDT)

 * Whoops, there are only 8 cities here—room for one more. I kind of lean Princeton, but perhaps that's unfair to the big Jersey cities. If we pick one of them, which has the most important tourist attractions? We could also list Hoboken. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:25, 9 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Hmm, surprised I missed that too. We don't have to have nine cities, of course, especially if there's no clear choice for the ninth one.  For reference, here are the available candidates from the state articles:
 * Niagara Falls, Ithaca, Syracuse, Cooperstown, Saratoga Springs, Albany
 * Harrisburg, Allentown, Gettysburg, Hershey, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre, State College, Williamsport
 * Trenton, Atlantic City, Camden, Hoboken, Jersey City, Newark, New Brunswick, Paterson, Princeton
 * Bethesda, College Park, Cumberland, Frederick, Hagerstown, Ocean City, Solomons Island
 * Dover, Wilmington, Newark, Bridgeville, Dewey Beach, New Castle, Rehoboth Beach, Middletown, Bethany Beach, Fenwick Island
 * -- (WT-en) LtPowers 09:39, 9 August 2008 (EDT)

 * Any thoughts? Niagara Falls seems like a decent choice, as the falls themselves are one of the region's major tourist destinations -- but it's really close to Buffalo.  There are a lot of choices that are comparable to each other, but none that stand out like the current eight do.  Maybe we should just stick with eight.  (WT-en) LtPowers 18:55, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
 * User:(WT-en) PAWiki seems to like Allentown, but I'd prefer to see some discussion here. Why Allentown and not, for instance, Scranton/Wilkes-Barre?  The former is fairly close to Philadelphia, to the point of being in the same metro area if I recall correctly, and SWB also has a AAA baseball team (as does Syracuse, for that matter).  I'm not saying Allentown is a bad choice, but I think we should discuss it.  (WT-en) LtPowers 15:14, 26 December 2008 (EST)
 * Allentown is the third most populated city in Pennsylvania, after Philadelphia and Pittsburgh, and one of the fastest growing. In economic, entertainment, social fields, it is the third or (if you include Harrisburg for the simple fact that it is the capital--but has little other notoriety) fourth most important city in the state.  I also concur with the inclusion of Atlantic City, for the reasons noted below and the fact that it is among the most famed beach resorts in the region.  (WT-en) PAWiki 15:39, 27 December 2008 (EST)

 * Atlantic City sounds like the best choice to me. It's a large enough sized city and a major tourist destination in New Jersey, for which we currently have no cities listed. I hadn't thought of it when I drafted the initial list, otherwise I think I would have included it. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:09, 26 December 2008 (EST)
 * I've thought about it over the past week and I think Atlantic City is probably the best choice. There's a lot to like about Allentown, but I don't see it being a major destination for travelers just yet.  Remember, the purpose of the "Cities" section is to provide shortcuts to cities the traveler is already thinking about without making them go through the whole hierarchy; I think Atlantic City definitely fills that bill (and, with that reasoning, perhaps we ought also to bold "Niagara Falls" in the description of Buffalo, to catch said traveler's eye).  (WT-en) LtPowers 15:37, 1 January 2009 (EST)

 * Atlantic City certainly draws more tourists than Allentown. I'd also suspect Allentown draws more than Rochester, which is on the list.  (WT-en) PAWiki 15:14, 2 January 2009 (EST)

 * My hunch is Rochester gets more tourism from its festivals, but especially from university visits. We seem to have a consensus at least to include Atlantic City, but we can still discuss the inclusion of Allentown at the removal of another city. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:29, 2 January 2009 (EST)

 * Well, Rochester serves as a jumping-off point for the entire Finger Lakes region. It also has its own attractions, which are, admittedly, varied rather than dominated by one big thing, but that's not really a bad thing.  But yes, the festival circuit is certainly a big draw.  =)  (WT-en) LtPowers 21:05, 2 January 2009 (EST)

 * Discussion seems to have stalled -- I'd like to go ahead and add Atlantic City and the numerous Other Destinations we now have to the map. Any objections?  (WT-en) LtPowers 10:11, 15 February 2009 (EST)

 * Sounds good to me! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:42, 16 February 2009 (EST)
 * Okay, new map is up. I didn't touch the Russian and Spanish layers on the SVG, though.  (WT-en) LtPowers 20:15, 20 February 2009 (EST)

I just can't believe how much Wilmington, DE is left out on this article.

Its GDP, downtown, and skyline are much larger than Allentown, Trenton, Lancaster, etc yet it is not listed on the cities list. It's history of supplying the necessary gunpowder to win 1812, DuPont, the Credit Card and banking hub, the incorporation town, nothing mentioned. One of the largest ports in the United States? One of the busiest Amtrak stations? The border city for the underground railroad?

How exactly can you leave this city out? Really? It's RIGHT THERE on 95. Right there on Amtrak. It has 40 large office buildings that smack you in the face traveling south from Philadelphia. You can't drive from NYC to Washington without seeing it.

It's the quintessential Mid-Atlantic City. AAA Mid-Atlantic hq is in that city. It meets every single definiton - it's a seaport - one of the largest ports on the east coast, and is economically more significant than your PA cities other than Phila (Pittsburgh isn't Mid-Atlantic) and Jersey cities except for Newark and Atlantic city.

So sad how much this article ignores Wilmington - you can't get any more mid-atlantic.

—The preceding comment was added by 76.99.185.210 (talk • contribs)
 * Allentown, Trenton, and Lancaster aren't on the list either. We have to pick nine cities; which one would you remove to make room for Wilmington?  (And Pittsburgh is not an option; it may not be on the Atlantic, but Pennsylvania is a Mid-Atlantic state.)  (WT-en) LtPowers 20:51, 14 January 2012 (EST)

 * Despite growing up not too far away, I can't say I know much about Wilmington. Could I perhaps convince its advocate here to spruce up the Wilmington (Delaware) article? With the understand section actually empty save for a pointer to the visitor center, it's not making a good case for why someone should visit! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:44, 8 July 2012 (EDT)

2021 discussion
Can we revisit the "Cities" section? Why Annapolis, rather than Allentown, Scranton or Harrisburg, or perhaps Wilmington? I'm not opposed and haven't visited Annapolis, but I was a bit surprised to see it as one of 9 cities, and I don't see any discussion of it above, so I don't know why it was picked. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:14, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

 * Annapolis probably because of the Naval Academy. Allentown makes me think of the Billy Joel song and I associate Scranton with The Office. Mildly interesting cities, but surely there must be more interesting places in the region. Or maybe not... Nelson Ricardo (talk) 03:06, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Disambiguator
What is the parenthetical US of A here disambiguating? I'm not aware of any other Mid-Atlantics in the world and it's annoying to type. Would anyone object to moving this page to Mid-Atlantic? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:08, 20 February 2008 (EST)

 * Always thought this was weird, especially since Mid-Atlantic redirects here. Would support de-disambiguation. (WT-en) OldPine 16:27, 20 February 2008 (EST)

 * De-disambiguated. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:57, 23 February 2008 (EST)

Parsing words
Per Project:Tone, we encourage lively writing, and discourage people from parsing words. But more to the point, what the heck is the logical difference between "arguably the world's greatest city" and "one of the world's greatest cities?" How could one be pretentious and the other not when they are both different expressions of the exact same argument? Any "one of the world's greatest cities" could be "arguably the greatest." The only difference I see is that the latter is more weakly stated, and I don't like seeing articles watered down. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:46, 19 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Conceptually, I would say there are numerous cities on the list of the world's greatest, but only a small handful that could reasonably be considered the greatest -- and none has as solid an argument as NYC. IMO.  (WT-en) LtPowers 22:34, 19 July 2008 (EDT)

They clearly have very different meanings. ‘One of the world’s greatest cities’ suggests that there are other cities as great as NYC (like I previously stated on the edit page, e.g London, Paris), while ‘arguably the world’s greatest city’ suggests that NYC is better (greater) than every other city of the world. Please don’t think I'm criticizing NYC, I just feel strongly that there are a small number of other cities in the world that could be considered among the greatest. —The preceding comment was added by 72.232.23.236 (talk • contribs).
 * Yes, that's true -- but the wording "arguably the world's greatest city" makes clear that many people consider it to be the tops -- a distinction limited to only a handful of cities around the world. "One of the world's greatest cities", on the other hand, puts it on equal footing with scores of others that are great, even if no one really considers them "the greatest".  I guess I what I'm saying is that the more superlative wording is necessary to get across the true scope and prominence of the city in relation to other "great" cities (without disparaging the few other claimants to "greatest").  (WT-en) LtPowers 16:10, 24 July 2008 (EDT)

 * I'd disagree, "arguably the world's greatest" means that one can make that argument (and if you've ever spent a minute speaking with a New Yorker, you know that people do exactly that). In any rate, please do not continue edit warring—in case of disagreement, it's Wikivoyage policy to default to the status quo until people come to an agreement on the talk page. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:04, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't think we disagree; what you said matches my feelings. And I only reverted once.  (WT-en) LtPowers 08:33, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Ah, sorry, I meant I disagreed with the previous comment ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:32, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Okay, I'm gonna let this go now as there’s no point in an edit war. I do agree with what you are saying even though I don’t agree with the wording used in the article. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 72.232.23.236 (talk • contribs)

Intro
Regarding the intro: geographically, isn't it more accurate to say the region is mostly rural-suburban? Certainly the majority of the two largest states would be considered "rural", or at minimum outside the megalopolis. I won't deny BosWash dominates the area culturally, financially, and demographically, but certainly not geographically! (WT-en) LtPowers 11:01, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

 * Please have at it, but it's probably best to emphasize that from a travel perspective, it's all about the cities. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 11:12, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Well that's true anywhere, isn't it? (WT-en) LtPowers 11:22, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

 * Not in Utah ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 11:28, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

Get Around > By Car
I'm from the Mid-Atlantic and in my travels, I've driven on most of I-95. While I don't disagree with the comments about rude & aggressive driving (something we take pride in), I don't know where anyone got the idea that I-95 "often encompass[es] a whopping 20 lanes". Maybe they're thinking of Southern California, but the widest I remember is eight or ten total lanes tops. Any ideas on how to fix this? I don't want to just cut it out entirely... —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Aure1ius9 (talk • contribs)

 * The "often" part is definitely an exaggeration, but the 20 lanes isn't much of one. I quickly checked the Garden State Pkwy just west of Manhattan, and I count 18 lanes at its widest stretch (at least I think there isn't any wider stretch) between Newark and Jersey City. I've revised the section accordingly. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:26, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

Images
I just realized this article has no photos! I slapped a nice one of Assateague at the top, but we need more than that, and I'm not certain that an OtBP destination like Assateague (beautiful though it is) really belongs at the top.

A few things I think should be represented: NYC, D.C., Philly, Jersey Shore, the Adirondacks, and Niagara Falls. Opinions? Photo suggestions (that aren't already being used elsewhere in our guides)? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 05:11, 17 October 2009 (EDT)

 * I don't have a lot of suggestions, I'm afraid. I took a glance through Commons' featured pictures, but the U.S. selection is heavily weighted to the west.  There's only one FP of Niagara Falls, for instance, and it's not even that good: Wikipedia:Commons:File:Niagarablue.jpg.  To me, as highlighted in the introduction, the Mid-Atlantic is defined equally by its large cities and skyscrapers as by its areas of natural beauty.  I don't know which aspect would make for a better lead picture, although we really can't ignore the impact of the NYC-Philly-Washington metropolis on the area.  Something like Wikipedia:Commons:File:Philadelphia skyline August 2007.jpg would show what is essentially a typical Mid-Atlantic cityscape with skyscrapers and a river in close proximity.  Just some thoughts.  (WT-en) LtPowers 10:45, 17 October 2009 (EDT)

 * wikipedia:commons:File:Middle Saranac Lake from Ampersand.jpg is a nice scene from the Adirondacks. (WT-en) LtPowers 14:23, 6 November 2009 (EST)

 * Heh, is your plan to fill the article with blue images? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:38, 6 November 2009 (EST)

 * Hmm, sounds like a plan; I'll revert your Assateague ponies picture back to the bluish version and we'll have a superfecta. =)  (WT-en) LtPowers 22:28, 6 November 2009 (EST)

Other Destinations
I'm tempted to replace Lehigh Valley with Thousand Islands; the latter seems like more of a tourist destination to me. Thoughts? (WT-en) LtPowers 08:59, 21 January 2011 (EST)

 * This makes sense to me as well. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:16, 20 September 2011 (EDT)

New York
New York State is never considered part of the Mid-Atlantic region, which would make no sense geographically, but always part of the Northeast. I see that somewhere along the line, people decided to arbitrarily lump New York into the Mid-Atlantic region because it's not part of New England. That's a mistake. We need to change our regional designations to match the ones in common use that are geographically much more logical. I would make the edit, but I think it's better to search for a consensus first. I'll say right away, though: If you think New York is a Mid-Atlantic state, with due respect, you're wrong. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 03:22, 15 October 2011 (EDT)

 * Do you have any idea how arrogant that sounds? Speaking as a born-and-bred New Yorker, the state has, in my experience, always been part of the Mid-Atlantic, which is a subregion of the Northeast (with some overlap with the South).  That's how I learned it growing up, but I'll be sure to tell my fourth-grade teacher she was "wrong" according to some random guy on the Internet.  For Wikivoyage purposes, grouping these five states works quite well, and there's no better name available, is there?  (WT-en) LtPowers 13:42, 15 October 2011 (EDT)

 * I've also always heard of New York described as a Mid-Atlantic state. Wikipedia includes New York in the Mid-Atlantic region, and the Middle Atlantic athletic Conferences, which dates back to 1912, includes New York schools.  I suspect there are other examples, so I would unfortunately have to say that Ikan's statement that "If you think New York is a Mid-Atlantic state, with due respect, you're wrong" may be a bit strong. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 14:29, 15 October 2011 (EDT)

 * I wouldn't pay much attention to the names of athletic conferences, but that aside, the better name is Northeast (which would encompass New England and New York), and I'm quite surprised to hear the Mid-Atlantic region being described as a "subregion of the Northeast." That would mean that states like Maryland and Delaware are called Northeastern states sometimes, and while that makes some geographic sense by analogy with calling the coastal Southern states the Southeast, I at least have not heard this done by people who live in those states. Anyway, it seems like I may have been a bit too sure of myself. I won't change my mind, but I will give up and try to remember that the consensus here and on Wikipedia is that New York, which borders Canada, is actually a Mid-Atlantic state. Sorry for causing offense. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 21:45, 16 October 2011 (EDT)

 * I'm honestly quite surprised at your conceptions of where the Northeast begins and ends. The US Census Bureau, for instance, includes PA and NJ in addition to NY and New England.  Commons has an 1883 map that shows the Middle Atlantic states extending from New York to Virginia, and the official U.S. tourism site defines Mid-Atlantic as NY, NJ, and PA.  It's a longstanding definition that wasn't just invented by Wikipedia.  =)  All "Mid-Atlantic" means is that it's the coastal states that lie between New England and The South.  (WT-en) LtPowers 07:41, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

 * Perceptions of what constitutes Mid-Atlantic vary depending on your location, I think. In Maryland, we are brought up to understand that the Mid-Atlantic is VA-DC-MD-DE. You probably wouldn't find locals in D.C., and rather few in Maryland, who consider themselves in the northeast. For our purposes, in any rate, I think the current division is satisfactory. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 12:04, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

 * True that it does vary, though I've never heard of the Mid-Atlantic being considered a region separate from the Northeast. Periodically, I consider whether it would be a good idea to add West Virginia and Virginia to this region.  Northern VA has much in common with Maryland, and West Virginia has much in common with southwest Pennsylvania; as well, The South as we've defined it has a large number of states that could stand to be pared down.  (WT-en) LtPowers 18:55, 17 October 2011 (EDT)

A bit hyperbolic?
"Every city is a melting pot of humanity with unparalleled cultural attractions, and every rural highway leads to another undiscovered gem of scenic beauty or country living."

Is it possible for every city to have unparalleled cultural attractions? Maybe some unique ones, but if they're all unparalleled in general, how is it possible (as indeed it is) to speak of one or two (to be precise, New York and Washington) as having a larger number of greater cultural attractions? As for the second clause, it sure looks like visitors bureau language. My proposed substitute:

"Every city in the region is a melting pot of humanity, quite a few feature great cultural attractions, and many rural highways lead to undiscovered gems of scenic beauty or country living."

I'm open to suggestions of how to improve that, but I don't think that including obviously false language is really useful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:56, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

 * I agree the current language sounds to much like the visitor's bureau... Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:17, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

 * It's supposed to. This is a travel guide! For crying out loud, every time I try to inject a little bit of lively travel writing, everyone goes all "visitor's bureau" on me. How come none of you ever bugged User:Gorilla Jones about Chicago? There's a nice quote from Bradbury on Tone that I'm forever grateful to User:Peterfitzgerald for adding.  Powers (talk) 00:56, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

 * If you're talking about the lede to Chicago, it's poetic but doesn't read the way this does to me. Is there a way to keep this writing lively without being too hyperbolic? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:11, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

 * Well that's the balancing act I'm always trying to strike. I'd rather have it lively and a bit over-the-top than dry and scrupulously correct, though. I'm sure anyone reading this knows that it's probably not literally true. Powers (talk) 01:29, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

 * I'm sure they don't, but that's not the only issue. Let's think about it and see if we can come up with something that is comparably lively doesn't sound too good to be true, because the problem with that is that could devalue the reader's opinion about the reliability of the article, just as is the case with some visitor's bureau promotional literature. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:47, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

 * How about "This region is a melting pot of humanity, full of great cities, unparalleled cultural attractions and scenic countryside"? All true and lively but not in my opinion too hyperbolic (although Europeans might question how unparalleled even the best art museums in the U.S. are compared to those of great European museums). Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:54, 24 May 2016 (UTC)

 * I may be biased, but I feel it loses some of the poetry of the original. In the lede I've tried to highlight the dichotomy between the great cities and the spectacular rural areas, and the parallel construction I used in this (the closing sentence) was intended to reinforce that message. Powers (talk) 23:53, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

 * It's great that you can turn a nice poetic phrase, but please work with me and see whether you can come up with a phrasing you're at peace with that doesn't risk striking the reader with a response of "Yeah, right!" Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:26, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

 * Well I may be a bit too close to it. Is "unparalleled" the only word you have a concern with? We could replace it with something else. Powers (talk) 21:11, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

 * That and the two uses of the word "every". Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:14, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

 * Are there cities that aren't melting pots and are without cultural attractions? Are there rural highways that don't lead to scenic beauty or other rural attractions? Powers (talk) 21:16, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

 * There are cities without unparalleled cultural attractions. As for rural highways, much as the WV:Words to avoid page mentions that "best" shouldn't be used for a restaurant of a certain type unless you've tried every other restaurant of that type in the world, have you travelled every rural highway in the entire region? It's full of pretty rural areas, but I'll bet there are some boring stretches somewhere. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:38, 26 May 2016 (UTC)

 * Well, if we're picking at nits that small, I should point out that it just says the highway "leads" somewhere, not that it necessarily passes through beautiful areas. And it does say "or country living", so I'm covered there, too. I will concede that "unparalleled" is probably too far over the top; do you have a proposed alternative adjective? Powers (talk) 00:10, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

 * I don't think it's that small a nit. Making that kind of claim about every rural road just doesn't feel credible to me. But anyway, milder synonyms for unparalleled would include "great", "superb", "wonderful", "unique", "excellent" and a whole host of others. Though whether every city in the region truly has any superb museums is probably questionable. I think the main point is that it's a region of cities with great cultural attractions of all kinds, not that every single city has incredible attractions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:28, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

 * This never got resolved; not a single word was changed. Any thoughts now, over 2 years later? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:59, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

It's funny ... I just went through basically this whole thread thinking that it had just been written. But I agree with you, the passage mentioned is hyperbolic. I can change it if you like. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk | contributions ) 07:16, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

 * It's more prosaic and less poetic, but I like it better. I did add "The region's diverse [cities]..." to restore a little more of the sense of the previous version. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:56, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Right, sometimes it's hard to remove certain words and keep the important phrases there as well. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk | contributions ) 14:27, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Boardwalk fries
Apparently there's a debate about whether the somewhat extraneous mention of boardwalk fries should be in the article. Or am I misreading the last edits? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:31, 17 June 2017 (UTC)
 * There's no debate, as the IP user hasn't explained why it's been removed twice. Powers (talk) 21:22, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
 * But why is it mentioned? Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:06, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure; I think Peter F wrote it long ago. Powers (talk) 18:40, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah; [//en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Mid-Atlantic&diff=916748&oldid=916747 here] it is. That said, I'd be open to rewriting it; it really doesn't say a lot about Delaware. Powers (talk) 18:42, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Regions
Should Virginia not be included along with Maryland? It seems odd to separate the Chesapeake Bay States since they share a lot of cultural and historic similarities. —The preceding comment was added by 50.202.217.173 (talk • contribs)

 * Thanks for starting this debate. Your suggestion has been duly noted. Please wait for this discussion to take place before making this type of change. Wikivoyage works on consensus. Undiscussed edits like that are usually rolled back.

 * About the change you propose, IMHO it makes sense geographically, and less so historically and culturally. "Mason-Dixon line" comes to mind. I would even quote our region article about the American South: "(...) parts of the South (as defined here) are more culturally influenced by other regions. In Kentucky, Louisville has traditionally been a hodgepodge of Southern and Midwestern culture; much the same holds true in Northern Kentucky (i.e., the Cincinnati suburbs on the Kentucky side of the Ohio River). Northern Virginia (suburban Washington, D.C.) is now culturally Mid-Atlantic. While West Virginia is generally considered Southern, the northern half of the state is more influenced by the industrial Midwest, while its Eastern Panhandle is increasingly becoming a bedroom community for D.C."

 * However, the discussion is valid. Not being American myself, and having never been to these places, I wait for more Wikivoyagers speak their opinion on the matter. Ibaman (talk) 21:02, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

 * The place for this discussion is at Talk:United States of America, but I'd be remiss if I failed to warn you that you're not going to get any further with this proposal than the dozens of other alternative suggestions for what states should and should not be included in various U.S. regions. The fact is that the current way this site defines U.S. regions has been the result of over 10 years of painstaking debate and consensus building, which the community is very unlikely to want to monkey around with at this stage of the game. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 21:56, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Yep, the current division of the regions is not necessarily perfect, but considering how many changes would have to be made to the U.S. articles for us to move Maryland and Virginia into the same region, I think it's better to leave things as they are. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk | contributions ) 05:16, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

 * For anyone who has followed this discussion, it has been continued at Talk:United States of America. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk | contributions ) 00:51, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

The Appalachian Trail
...is not IMO a good fit for the "Other destinations" section of this article, as it's not located entirely or even mostly in the Mid-Atlantic region: of its total length of ~2,200 miles, the New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Maryland portions comprise only a paltry 431 of those miles between them.

From a geographical perspective, it's also less than ideal that Delaware is completely omitted from the listings in the "Cities" and "Other destinations" sections. With that in mind, I'd like to propose the w:Delaware Beaches to replace the Appalachian Trail on that list. It's certainly popular enough as a summer getaway for folks living in D.C., Baltimore, and Philadelphia to merit being highlighted in this fashion.

What do you think?

-- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:51, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Sounds good to me. The Appalachian Trail is an itinerary, not a destination article, on Wikivoyage. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk | contributions ) 15:57, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Ikan, what do you think? Powers? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:08, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

 * I agree. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:09, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Sounds good to me, too. Ibaman (talk) 23:11, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

Crime
"Washington, D.C., Philadelphia, and Baltimore are particularly risky for travelers--they all are worth visiting, but have rough neighborhoods near many popular tourist sites—best to do your research ahead of time and avoid straying off the beaten path. New York, despite what you may have seen in the movies, is actually one of the safest big cities in the country, and you may rest easy knowing that violent crime has become rare in areas frequented by tourists."

I'm not sure about Baltimore/Philly, but saying D.C. is less safe for tourists than NYC strikes me as untrue. There are some sketchier areas in D.C., but most tourists don't visit Anacostia/etc., and the problems from those areas don't really bleed into places like the National Mall. - Sdkb (talk) 16:58, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

 * I've spent no more than a couple of weeks in either city, but on the basis of that limited experience I agree with your perception that DC is safer than NYC. Ikan Kekek might want to weigh in. —Granger (talk · contribs) 21:32, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Don't statistics still show that New York is the safest big city in the country? If you all are feeling good about safety in DC, especially in areas tourists are most likely to visit, go ahead and write that kind of statement (though not one that disregards higher-crime neglected neighborhoods entirely), but I hope you have no plans to do it at the expense of New York. As for Philadelphia, which areas frequented by tourists are particularly dangerous? That passage might be old and largely outdated. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:59, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mid-Atlantic


text:
Talk:Mid Coast (Maine)

Nine Cities
I arbitrarily trimmed the 'cities' list down to the usual nine-max by eliminating cities with smaller populations. Of course, this is the wrong thing to do since the coast is a vacation destination so population does not necessarily correlate with most-visited. Someone with with more knowledge of the area should pick a different set of nine. -- (WT-en) Colin 16:03, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mid Coast (Maine)


text:
Talk:Middelburg (Zeeland)

Pictures
The two camera phone pictures are meant as a preliminary fill in, until someone else can provide better quality and higher resolution pictures. --(WT-en) Terence s 07:19, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Middelburg (Zeeland)


text:
Talk:Middleburg

Hats off
Wow, I can't believe we didn't have an article for Middleburg before today—it's one of the D.C. area's top get-aways. I'm also a bit amazed at how nice the article looks having only been around one day, so hats off to those who made it that way! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:35, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Middleburg


text:
Talk:Middleburg (Virginia)

Hats off
Wow, I can't believe we didn't have an article for Middleburg before today—it's one of the D.C. area's top get-aways. I'm also a bit amazed at how nice the article looks having only been around one day, so hats off to those who made it that way! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:35, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Middleburg (Virginia)