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Talk:Malaysia

Malaria
There is a Malaria page, unless it got deleted. I noted it before and thought it should be discussed-- what do we do with health issues? They should be discussed, but in how much detail and in what format? Before I go any futher, I'll take this to the Malaria talk page... (WT-en) Majnoona 10:52, 29 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Destinations
How about Malacca and Kota Bharu as Destination cities? I don't know what slogans to use for them, but I think they belong. Malacca, abode of history? Kota Bharu, gem of the Northeast?

09:30, 5 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Anything you like boss... but we don't have to list every city in the main page, places like Kota Bharu are hardly tourist attractions (or "gems"). (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:10, 5 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Well, is Taiping really a pensioners' paradise? I've never been there, but then I'm not a pensioner, nor are most tourists, and there are probably things about that city that would appeal to younger visitors. I happen to like Kota Bharu and think that it belongs because it's very different from every other city in Malaysia. The appeal for visitors is its uniqueness, in culture, food, architecture, dialect, etc. You might not find the pasars there a big deal, for example, but that doesn't mean other tourists wouldn't. But in any case, I'm just throwing out the idea to someone who might want to write the article. I'd do it, but I'm not enough of an expert. If you aren't interested, no problem.

Michael 09:43, 6 July 2005 (UTC)

 * None of us are "experts", we're all just Wikivoyagers. Plunge forward and edit, if somebody doesn't like your edits they'll edit them again, and eventually it'll settle down to a happy compromise.

 * Also, smaller towns can be listed on regional pages, eg. you'll find Kota Bharu under East Coast (Malaysia). And if you can enter what you found interesting about KB by all means add it in, then I'll know what to look for the next time I pass through (which, from the looks of it, will be about 1.5 weeks from now). (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:12, 6 Jul 2005 (EDT)

This message was triggered off by what Jpatokal said in the Central (Malaysia) discussion page. I agree that decribing a region in Peninsular Malaysia as "Central" is odd. As a Malaysian, I have never heard of this being used. The usual references to regions in Malaysia are "East Coast" to cover Kelantan, Terengganu and Pahang and "West Coast" for Perlis, Kedah, Penang, Perak, Selangor, Negeri Sembilan, Malacca and even Johor. Johor of course has both a west and east coast, so it may not fit the "West Coast" classification so well. Can I rename and regroup the regions of Peninsular Malaysia into "West Coast" for Perlis down to Negeri Sembilan, "East Coast" for Kelantan, Terengganu and Pahang, and "South" for Malacca and Johor.(WT-en) Slleong 10:06, 10 Feb 2006 (EST)

Why is it not accepted that Kuala Kubu Bharu is a city? I looked up the definition of a city. KKB fits in perfectly. KKB is head district of Hulu Selangor, has a church, more than 2 chinese temples and a Mosque (please see cambridge definition of a city). Futhermore it is place of commerce, business and residence. The size is larger than a town because of facilities and infrastructure. Recently added train station, a bus station, schools, district councel (YDP is currently in office in KKB), hospital and of course market, residential zones, business and commercial centre and the rest. It also has an indipendent history, unique and not sub-dipendent on cities in the vicinity like KL. Please give me some reasons why this is not accepted... —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 124.13.71.238 (talk • contribs)

 * Of course it's a city, but you're not reading the page, which says "Only cities of primary importance to tourists here, maximum 9". We already have nine listed, and you'll have a hard time arguing that KKB is more important to tourists than (say) Malacca.  The correct place to link in KKB is Selangor state, and it's already listed there. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:52, 12 December 2008 (EST)

Thank you for the response. I got your point. I understand now that it needs to be top 9 (and that was my problem). I cannot argue over Malacca that’s for sure! But I can certainly argue over IPOH (or some of the other destinations!). KKB has just recently entered the tourism world. Not because there were no tourists coming to KKB a few years back but because of it being primarily a LOCAL tourism destination. The problem was transportation and geographical. It was not well connected to Kuala Lumpur and the only way (or almost the only way) to visit KKB was using your own car. Everything changed in 2008. The KTM opened to KKB and the influx of tourists grew exponentially. KKB has a huge tourist per capita ratio even without counting the new KTM line which draws in more FOREIGN tourism. KKB is one of the best rafting and hiking destinations worldwide. More than 3 rafting companies are operating here in the surroundings. Bukit Kutu trail has been recently upgraded and reopened. The construction of the dam (recently completed) and it’s tourist information center have drawn in a large number of visitors together with the newly formed aborigine village of Pertak. Traditionally KKB’s local tourists came for golf (18hole golf course). The night markets which draws an amazing number of local (and now overseas) tourists. It is also a pass by point for Frasier’s Hills and Genting. Many tourists stop over KKB for the food, shopping (KKB is very reasonably priced) and nature walks. New accommodations have opened up in the town itself and a tourist information centre is in the making. There are many more recent developments which are putting KKB on the MAP. I argue that population per tourist ratio KKB is way ahead of IPOH although does lack behind Malaka which is a well establish tourist destination for local and foreign tourists or Johor Bharu which is very strong in tourist influx from Singapore (for shopping mainly). —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 124.13.71.238 (talk • contribs)

 * If it's a rafting and hiking destination, then maybe you can put it under "Other" — but why is there no rafting info on the KKB page? (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:47, 12 December 2008 (EST)

Sorry but KKB seams to be one of the best kept secrets of malaysia!!!! I will update in the following month more information on KKB. For your refrence these are the rafting companies I mentioned: Pierose Swiftwater (www.raftmalaysia.com), Tracks (www.tracksadventures.com) and Khersonese Expedition (www.thepaddlerz.com). All of which are rafting, trekking, outdoor adventure companies that operate on rivers going to the dam. But KKB is not only this. I will update the KKB page as soon as possible. But please I would like to understand why you see Ipoh as a more important tourist destination than KKB. I cannot find a good reason except for city size (which I don't think constitutes a reasonable criteria or else the number of tourists going to Kuantan or Kuala Terengganu would be much higher than Putrajaya but they are not on the list).

 * http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=ipoh&word2=kuala+kubu+baru (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:56, 12 December 2008 (EST)

Objections: 1) research engines do not only look for tourism related topics 2) this does not show that one city is more important than another in a certain field Consensus: I do understand the point that the more a city is talked about the more it should be good for tourism. Obviously this also has to do with the population problem I was explaining earlier. Surely KKB has no entries for industry or medical research but most of the listings probably do have something to do with tourism while Ipoh being a much more “complex” city obviously has a much smaller percentage related to tourism. Another point is the population. Let’s take this counter example: http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=shenzhen&word2=guilin As you can clearly see Shenzhen is of ratio 1 to 8 with Guilin. Notice Shenzhen is not in the destination cities in China but Guilin is (http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/China) To further analyize the matter, consider the population difference between the Malaysia and Chinese example: Malaysian Population   746.300      Ipoh                        google hits 3.780.000 Population        5.000      Kuala Kubu Bharu     google hits 212.000 Chinese Population 4.000.000  shenzhen                google hits 22.000.000 Population 1.340.000  guilin                       google hits   2.710.000 Simple, if you do the math and take into consideration population/google hits ratio without even considering my other argument than KKB Should be placed on destinations.

 * http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=ipoh+tourism&word2=kuala+kubu+baru+tourism (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:06, 12 December 2008 (EST)

Hello, I am the "KKB GUY". Sorry for my lack of form. I just signed up and I have a new account. Sorry to see that you do not have any argumentation and can only send me links. Maybe Wikipedia should just rely on google as a form of ultimate knowledge and information. I have hence decided to delete Ipoh and substitute it with KKB. If you give me sufficient argumentation to support the contrary I will put KKB under others as has been suggested. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Lorenzoitaly (talk • contribs)

 * Thank you! Now we can have a civilized conversation.  So, as should have been completely and totally obvious from the links above, Ipoh is a major tourism destination (100,000+ Google hits) while KKB is a very, very minor one (under 5000 hits, and most of those talk about Fraser's Hill).  As you can see from Project:Country article template, the Cities section is reserved for prominent cities, but KKB is, as you said, "Malaysia's best kept secret" because it's not prominent.

 * I've already offered a compromise: stick KKB under "Other destinations". Are you OK with this? (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:36, 13 December 2008 (EST)

Very Well, I agree that not enough information on KKB has been put into the web (a true pity). Let's put it under "Other destinations" using the description I presented, but in 6 months time let's revise it if information on the web has increased or if I present further evidence (for instance KKB is applying for UNESCO as world heritage site) than you will try to reconsider. Do you agree?

 * Sure -- we work on Project:Consensus here. I think your description is quite boring though: a "garden city" sounds like a suburb, and isn't that Putrajaya's slogan anyway? (WT-en) Jpatokal 20:01, 13 December 2008 (EST)

North (Malaysia)

 * Delete. Merged into the more commonly known West_Coast_(Malaysia) which extends from north to south.(WT-en) Slleong 05:39, 9 March 2006 (EST)
 * Keep & redirect to West_Coast_(Malaysia) Changed my mind - instead:
 * Keep & disambiguate (which I've just done, incorporating state lists/links).
 * Delete. -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 15:31, 14 March 2006 (EST)
 * What do people think of such quasi-disambiguations, i.e. where you disambiguate not because of repeated name, but because the region covers other regions? I myself am in favour, having done so for North (India) after I split it into two regions. But it is not covered under policy — (WT-en) Ravikiran 01:10, 25 March 2006 (EST)
 * My personal preference would be to come up with a clear set of regions and stick to them, and only set up redirects and disambiguations when there are common region names in use that differ from what Wikivoyage uses. In this case I don't think "North Malaysia" would be a common enough term that we need an article for it. -- (WT-en) Ryan 20:00, 25 March 2006 (EST)
 * Good. So North India stays and this goes — (WT-en) Ravikiran 00:00, 26 March 2006 (EST)
 * Is the edit history worth considering when thinking about how common usage of such a term might be? Neither North (Malaysia) nor Central (Malaysia) started out as disambiguations - the origins of both seem to be pretty much identical to North (India) except that instead of a single region being subdivided, the entire region was re-divided. 203.151.141.194 05:55, 27 March 2006 (EST)

Central (Malaysia)

 * Delete. Even more unheard of than the above, also merged contents into West_Coast_(Malaysia).(WT-en) Slleong 05:39, 9 March 2006 (EST)
 * Keep - was converted to a disambiguation yesterday Keep if keeping North (Malaysia) - otherwise delete. 203.151.141.194 06:05, 27 March 2006 (EST)
 * Delete. -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 15:31, 14 March 2006 (EST)
 * What do people think of such quasi-disambiguations, i.e. where you disambiguate not because of repeated name, but because the region covers other regions? I myself am in favour, having done so for North (India) after I split it into two regions. But it is not covered under policy — (WT-en) Ravikiran 01:10, 25 March 2006 (EST)
 * See comments above. -- (WT-en) Ryan 20:00, 25 March 2006 (EST)

People
I disagree with the revised population statistics. The official 2004 stats are Malay 50.8%, Chinese 23.8%, Indigenous 10.9%, Indian 7.1%, non-Malaysian citizens 6.8 %, others 0.6%. (WT-en) Greenmango 01:34, 4 October 2006 (EDT)

Stay safe
WARNING: Indonesians (they look like Malays) around Kuala Lumpur cheat tourists frequently by selling fake products (like Rolex, etc.). STAY AWAY FROM THESE CHEATERS. THEY WILL FOLLOW YOU. Also, be careful with taxi drivers because some charge an unusually high fees when it comes to foreigners.

that part is racist and not appropriate

National Parks
Can you list the 3 mouuntains taller than Gng Kinabalu/ (WT-en) Greenmango 21:23, 22 July 2008 (EDT)

Taxi in Malaysia
In Kuala Lumpur, may I ask, is it possible to have five passengers in a taxi? Will they allow? The three passengers are 16 years old and below.

-In KL (as the locals call it), they'll let you stuff as many people as you want into a cab.

The limit is 4, and most taxi drivers are quite strict about that now. (WT-en) Greenmango 21:50, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

about the "technically" part regarding to the criminality of homosexuality in Malaysia
When I mentioned that homosexuality is illegal due to strong influence of Islam in Malaysia, someone else placed the word "technically" in the comment which ends up being "homosexuality is technically illegal." I thought homosexuality IS illegal due to strong influence of Islam. Can anyone fully explain this? --(WT-en) Dark Paladin X 19:32, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

 * Things are "technically illegal" when they're illegal but the law is not enforced, which is usually the case in Malaysia. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:52, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

 * Oh, so that's what you mean by technically illegal. At least it's good advice to gays and lesbians to avoid public displays of affections here.--(WT-en) Dark Paladin X 09:48, 11 May 2009 (EDT)

 * I think you should explain to Anwar Ibrahim that he only "technically" spent six years in gaol for sodomy.
 * One must also consider the Syariah court systems in each of the 13 states if one is a Muslim.
 * Consequently I have made these edits
 * I do not speak fluent Arabic or Malay, but this authoritative site writes:

(typographical errors corrected by me) ''In the field of criminal law in particular, the jurisdiction of the Shariah Courts is very limited. It has jurisdiction only over persons professing the religion of Islam and it has only such jurisdiction in respect of offences as is conferred by Federal law. Until 1984, the Muslim Courts (Criminal Jurisdiction) Act, 1965 had provided that such jurisdiction should not be exercised in respect of any offence punishable with imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or any fine exceeding $1,000.00 or with both. The Act was amended in 1984 and the jurisdiction of the Syariah Court has been extended by giving them jurisdiction to deal with cases punishable with imprisonment up to three years, or a fine up to $5,000.00 or whipping up to six strokes or the combination of all these. The Criminal jurisdiction of the Shariah Courts is therefore less than that of the First Class Magistrate which can generally try offences for which the maximum term of imprisonment does not exceed ten years imprisonment.''

''The subordinate position given to the Shariah Courts is also shown by the fact that in many cases their decisions could be overridden by the decisions of the civil courts. The Selangor Administration of Muslim Law Enactment, 1952, provided after setting out the jurisdiction of the Courts of the Kathi Besar and the Kathi, that "Nothing in this Enactment contained shall effect the jurisdiction of any civil courts and in the event of any difference or conflict between the decision of a courts of Kathi Besar or a kathi and the decision of a civil court acting within its jurisdiction, the decision of the Civil Court sh 11 prevail." Indeed there were many cases reported which show that the decision of the civil courts would prevail over the decision of the Shariah Court and the rulings of the Mufti, the highest Muslim legal officer.'' ''The unsatisfactory position of the Shariah Courts and its judges and officers led the Government to form a Committee under the Chairmanship of the late Tan Sri Syed Nasir Ismail to look into the position and suggest measures to be taken to raise their status and position. The Committee in its report recommended that (a) the Shariah Courts should be separated from the Council of Muslim Religion in the States and be independent of it (b) steps be taken to improve the training and recruitment of Shariah judicial and legal officers and (c) steps be taken to improve the facilities in the Shariah Courts, especially in regard to court buildings, supporting staff and facilities. The recommendations of the Committee were in general accepted by the Government and steps taken to implement them.'' ''The most significant change has been made by the enactment of the amendment to Article 121 of the Federal Constitution which has modified the provision that the judicial power of the Federation shall be vested only in the civil courts and has also provided that the High Courts and courts subordinate to it shall have no jurisdiction in any matter which comes within the jurisdiction of the Shariah Courts. It may be noted that, with the establishment of the Federal Territories of Kuala Lumpur and Labuan, the Shariah Courts have become federal courts for these territories.''

''Administrative measures have also been taken to separate the Shariah Courts from the Council of Muslim Religion. The judicial officers of the Shariah Court have been placed in the professional group and most states now provide adequate buildings, staff and facilities for the Shariah Court. With the assistance of the Public Service Department, a one-year in service diploma course has been instituted in the International Islamic University to provide professional training to the serving officers of the Shariah Courts. This has since been extended to fresh graduates from the universities who are required to undergo a two year professional programme. In this way the professional competence of the officers of the Shariah Court has been enhanced, so as to make them better able to carry out their duties in the Shariah Courts.''

''In the past the only legislation on the administration of the Muslim Law in the States was the Administration of Muslim Law enactment. This dealt, among other things with the constitution and powers of the Council of Muslim Religion, the Mufti and the power to issue fatwa or rulings on Muslim Law, the law relating to Muslim marriage and divorce, wakafs and baitulmal and the Shariah Courts. The provisions were very limited in their scope and in particular the law relating to the procedure and evidence to be applied in the Shariah Courts was inadequate and required reference to the civil law applicable in the civil courts. There was a need to have a new laws to deal with the administration of the Islamic Family Law and the jurisdiction, powers and evidence and procedure applicable in the Shariah Courts in detail.'' ''Before 1984 each State had its own legislation on the administration of the family law. There was a need to have a uniform law in this matter and a Committee headed by Tengku Zaid from the Attorney-General's Chambers was appointed to prepare a model enactment. This model code was later agreed to by the Conference of Rulers and after that referred to the various States for enactment of the legislation. Unfortunately the hope to have a uniform Islamic family law in this way was not achieved as some states, particularly Kelantan, Kedah and Malacca, made significant changes to the draft. In addition to the problem of lack of uniformity in the laws applied in the various states there was also the problem of conflicts between the civil law and the Shariah Law. It was necessary therefore, that steps should be taken to suggest measures to reconcile and have uniformity in the Islamic Family Law applicable in the various states and to improve and strengthen the administration of the law in the Shariah Courts. In addition there was a need to examine the existing legislation, both Federal and States, and suggest the removal of those provisions which are found to be in conflict with the Islamic law.'' ''At present the most important jurisdiction of the Shariah Courts is in relation to the family law of the Muslims. in this respect, an effort had been made earlier to have a uniform law for the various States in Malaysia but unfortunately this has not succeeded. One of the first tasks of the authorities was therefore to study the various Islamic family laws and to recommend various amendments to bring them closer to one another. The two most important enactments were those enacted in Kelantan and in the Federal Territory and therefore amendments were suggested to the Kelantan and Federal Territory laws for adoption by them and the other states which followed one or other of them. A comprehensive table of amendments was prepared for each state or territory and these were discussed with the relevant authorities in the States or territory. Alhamdulillah many States have accepted the suggested amendments and it is hoped that in time the Islamic family Law administered in Malaysia will be more uniform. Those states who have not yet enacted the Islamic Family legislation have been encouraged and assisted to enact them. In addition to bringing the laws nearer to one another, amendments have also been suggested to ensure that the civil courts will not continue to exercise jurisdiction in such matters as breach of promise of marriage, custody of children and the division of the harta sepencarian or jointly acquired property.'' -- A l i c e ✉ 01:26, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Regions, Cities and Other Destinations
After Peter completed his excellent map, I noticed that Labuan is being treated as a separate top level region. Frankly, that makes no sense whatsoever. It is tiny and insignificant for the traveller. The Federal Territories in Peninsular Malaysia are treated as part of West Coast, and I strongly think therefore that Labuan should be treated as part of Sabah. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 12:57, 1 January 2010 (EST)

 * Also there are 10 cities listed. I suggest losing Putrajaya. And 21 other destinations!? Severe culling required. My suggested list of 9 is:

 * Langkawi
 * Penang
 * Perhentian Islands
 * Tioman Island
 * Taman Negara National Park
 * Kinabalu National Park
 * Cameron Highlands
 * Fraser's Hill
 * Either Kubah National Park or Redang --(WT-en) Burmesedays 13:08, 1 January 2010 (EST)

 * Ah, I wish that I had seen this earlier—it would have made the map much easier to tackle! I'll defer to others re: cities & od lists, but I definitely agree that Labuan would be better off lumped in with Sabah. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:14, 1 January 2010 (EST)

 * I could see you had struggled a bit with all those place labels which is why I checked the OD list!--(WT-en) Burmesedays 01:57, 3 January 2010 (EST)

 * Two weeks and no interest in this, so I will go ahead with my proposals. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 08:03, 13 January 2010 (EST)

I think we should get rid of "Peninsular Malaysia" and "East Malaysia" as we already use the levels below them as top-level regions. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 11:04, 15 July 2010 (EDT)

 * On the face of it, I would tend to disagree, as those designations are so standard and geography-based in Malaysia. Why can't they coexist with the various states as top-level regions? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 06:23, 18 July 2010 (EDT)

 * Because now we have two top-level regions at the same time. I did not mean to get rid of the wording of "Peninsular Malaysia" and "East Malaysia", just to get rid of them boasting an article of their own. I mean it a bit like this:

Regions

 * West Coast
 * East Coast
 * South
 * Sabah
 * Sarawak

--(WT-en) globe-trotter 08:02, 18 July 2010 (EDT)

 * Got it. No objection.

 * One aside: I wonder about "South" as a designation, though. I know that Johor has both west and east coasts, but the east coast is the least developed part of Johor, still, isn't it? I would classify Johor as a West Coast state. But I don't have a strong opinion about that. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 08:34, 18 July 2010 (EDT)

 * I think Johor has been placed as "South" or "South Coast", because its obviously touching both coasts. I'm fine with that the way it is now, otherwise it might create confusion. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 16:30, 18 July 2010 (EDT)

 * I do agree that its a bit odd to have just Johor separately, as the Southern region also includes Melaka and some other areas. Grouping it with the West Coast I think is more logical. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 15:32, 24 July 2011 (EDT)

 * We could also use the six regions of Malaysia. It'd avoid this huge West Coast region which has so much to do, and Malacca (state) would be in the Southern Region. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 03:38, 13 September 2011 (EDT)

 * What this amounts to is dividing up the West Coast while ignoring the fact that Kelantan is also a "northern" state. I find it slightly strange but could understand the reason for it, pragmatically. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 04:33, 13 September 2011 (EDT)

 * It's a tricky one this. The most interesting bits of Peninsular Malaysia for many travelers are in the North and on the East Coast. Johor is relatively uninspiring and makes sense as one travel region.
 * Many travelers though would think of Kelantan, Perak, Kedah, Penang and Perlis in the same breath (as "the North"), and we have Kelantan in a different region.
 * Pahang could probably stand alone as a travel region, or be grouped with Terengganu.
 * Selangor, the Federal Territories (Wilayah Persekutuan) of KL, Putrajaya and any other ghastly forced towns that the govt is creating (I think there's one called "Cyberjaya"), NS and Melaka definitely belong together.
 * I am wondering whether four regions along those lines would work - North, Pahang and Terengganu, West Coast and Johor (no need to call it the South - it's just Johor)? --(WT-en) burmesedays 05:00, 13 September 2011 (EDT)

 * Quick thought: Kelantan and Terengganu are culturally similar (and certainly more similar than Kelantan is with any other state), so I would tend to group them together, though it could also make sense to group Terengganu with Pahang - and, therefore, all three states together. In spite of good cross-country highways, I think the East Coast/West Coast dichotomy is still the most important one in the Peninsula, for cultural, demographic, and historical reasons. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 10:06, 13 September 2011 (EDT)

 * Yes I think the east-west distinction is certainly important. However, I think that Johor then could better be dealt with as a western state instead of a separate southern one. That would make a large western region though.. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 04:50, 14 September 2011 (EDT)

 * Indeed. One question I have is, if we divide up the West Coast into subregions, where does Negeri Sembilan belong: With Selangor or with Melaka? I'm not sure; it is in some ways sui generis, in that it is so heavily Minangkabau and has a unique history, as exemplified by its name (Negeri Sembilan = Nine States, the number of different kingdoms that unified into one but still have real distinctions as different districts [daerah]).

 * One clue to where it should be placed may be to consider some of the history, as retold in [Wikipedia:Negeri Sembilan], which might indicate the state should be grouped with Melaka and Johor:

 * "The Minangkabaus from Sumatra settled in Negeri Sembilan in the 15th century under the protection of the Malacca Sultanate, and later under the protection of its successor, the Sultanate of Johor." (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 00:03, 15 September 2011 (EDT)

Passport reader
In the old immigration/customs building for those exiting Singapore and entering Malaysia, there is the option for holders of Malaysian passports to use a passport machine instead of going through a counter manned by staff. Does anyone know what info is read by the machine? Does it read visa stamps? 118.101.61.189 09:28, 5 April 2011 (EDT) It reads chips in the passport. JadeDragon (talk) 11:34, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Get In
I wish to add a reminder note for people regarding the newly introduced finger printing at malaysian entry points. This will serve to plan their schedules especially when having onward connecting itineraries. But I'm not sure if all of the checkpoints have the finger printing. Fellow travellers, please advise.

Malaysian ringgit
There are currently a variety of currency styles in use in our Malaysian articles, eg: RM34, 34 ringgit, RM 34, ringgit 34, MYR34, etc.

Since its official abbreviation is RM (Ringgit Malaysia in the local language), in 7 days I propose adding

"RM100 in Kuala Lumpur, not Ringgit 100, 100 RM, MYR 100 or RM 100 (with a space before the amount)"

to http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/$#Currency_symbols unless someone gives cogent reasons at http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage_talk:Currency#Malaysian_ringgit why this would be inappropriate. -- A l i c e ✉ 23:58, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Upgrade to usable status?
I believe the Malaysia article meets all the criteria of usable country status, but it is classified as an outline. What am I missing? Jnich99 (talk) 06:46, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Well, the Penang article is linked in "Other destinations" and itself cannot yet be Usable because it's a regional (state) article and not all the linked destinations are Usable. But it's probably a mistake to link a state-level article in "Other destinations." All the city articles on the list of 9 and all the other "Other destinations" articles are rated as Usable or better.

 * Also, I don't understand the last sentence of the Country guide status:

 * At least the most prominent attraction is identified with directions.

 * And we want directions to an attraction in a country-level article because? It seems like it would be good to delete that sentence from Country guide status.Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:38, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

 * I posted to that effect at Wikivoyage talk:Country guide status. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:45, 18 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Actually, for region articles to be "usable" not all destinations need to be usable, so I think both Penang and Malaysia meet the criteria. From a traveller's perspective, it does make sense to link Penang, I guess, as it is often viewed and discussed as a destination. It's not that uncommon either. The Penang article holds more than usable information for 95% of travellers, so I upgraded it to usable and did the same to the Malaysia article. Excellent work has been done on this region :-) JuliasTravels (talk) 11:54, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

 * It doesn't make sense for a state to be listed as an "Other destination". "Other destinations" could include islands, but really, Penang Island? That would be like listing Manhattan as an "Other destination" in the United States article. We need a different 9th "Other destination", and it has to be at least at Usable level for this article to be Usable. Right now, I think you're right that it is, precisely because all 9 cities and all 9 "other destinations" are at least Usable. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:09, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

 * I have no strong opinions on this and I do get your point. I just meant that when I travelled to Malaysia last year, I found that "Penang" is in general conversations often treated as a destination. If you take a LP guide for Malaysia, "Penang" will be included in the highlights. Our article structure works somewhat differently, and I can understand why someone would include "Penang" in the other destinations. That doesn't mean that better ideas can't be discussed, though. JuliasTravels (talk) 13:00, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

 * A brief remark about highlights sounds like a good idea. We sort of have that in "See", and perhaps Penang should be moved further up in the section. Or is there another section further up in the article that might be a better place for this? What do you think? I'm tending toward suggesting an edit to "See" because I don't want too much duplication in the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:08, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

 * I don't see any pressing need to remove Penang island from the other destinations unless there's a better option, but sure, the See-section is the main place. The introduction is another option (see e.g. the USA article). JuliasTravels (talk) 14:25, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

 * If you're feeling inspired, please work on this. I think we could help our readers by having more such summaries in more articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:38, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

 * And about "Other destinations": We could easily add Sipadan and probably should, if it really has some of the best scuba diving in the world. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:41, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

Block of tout's website
A certain tout has been very persistent recently. I created Special:AbuseFilter/27 since it is hard to get around posting that URL each time. Let me know if this is an excessive response. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 09:18, 20 July 2016 (UTC)

Spinoff Article on Food.
I've noticed that we have separate articles for some different cuisines, such as Japanese, Chinese, Indian and Russian cuisine. I was wondering if we should create a separate article covering the cuisine of Malaysia and Singapore (and maybe Brunei?) since both countries have a shared culinary tradition, having such an article means that we can shorten the main Malaysia and Singapore articles, and do more justice to the cuisine within the standalone articles. This will also allow us to go into more detail about regional variations in Malaysian cuisine (for instance, I used to travel to Penang fairly regularly since you can't find some of those dishes in Johor). In addition, I think it would be fine to lump Singaporean and Malaysian cuisine together since for practical purposes, Singaporean cuisine can be considered a regional variant of Malaysian cuisine (unlike say, Thai or Vietnamese cuisine, which are completely distinct). The dog2 (talk) 17:37, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

 * I think the cuisine articles are a bit questionable, to the extent they are shorter versions of what's on Wikipedia, so while I think your idea is fine, let's try to keep it very travel-focused by recommending particular places to get x, y and z dishes, etc. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:00, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

 * I agree with your assessment on the cuisine articles. I'm not sure where is a good place to start a discussion about how to reformat the cuisine articles in general, but I think the focus should be on describing the regional variations in cuisine. Of course, we can dedicate a part to describing national dishes that are available more or less everywhere throughout the country, but how such articles can be useful for travellers is by describing where to get specific types of food. For instance, if you want to get chicken rice, southern Malaysia (Johor, Malacca) and Singapore are best for that, but if you want assam laksa, you have a head to Penang for that. And even in the case of things available nationally like nasi kandar, Penang is where it originated from, and most Malaysians will tell you that Penang is the place to go for the best nasi kandar. The dog2 (talk) 20:21, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

 * And speaking of which, we haven't even mentioned anything about Eurasian cuisine in either the Malaysia or Singapore articles. It is most certainly something that is distinct from Peranakan, Malay, Chinese or Indian cuisine. They have dishes like devil's curry, sugee cake or Eurasian shepherd's pie that you really can't find outside the region. The dog2 (talk) 20:27, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

 * I'm not familiar with Malaysian Eurasian cuisine, maybe partly because I spent the majority of my time there in Terengganu. You know a lot about this cuisine and where to best get it, so by all means, start the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:04, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

 * I don't actually know it well. I just went to a Eurasian restaurant in Singapore once. But those are some of their signature dishes. I know you can find them at the Portuguese Settlement in Malacca too, but I never tried it there. I'll create the article when I have a bit more time, perhaps during the weekend or something. I've never been to Terengganu though (the furthest up the east coast I've been to is Mersing), so maybe you can contribute your knowledge about Terengganu food. The dog2 (talk) 04:13, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

 * I meant that you know Malaysia/Singapore cuisine well. Terengganu has a little content, as does Kuala Terengganu. And then for Kelantanese food, there's Kota Bharu and Kelantan. It will be good to put that information in one place. Any article on Malaysian food needs to emphasize fresh fruits - vegetables, too, but especially fruits. I love Malaysian cuisine, but the fresh fruits are one of the best things about eating in Malaysia. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:03, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Side point on satay
The most common kinds of satay are what? I'd say chicken and goat, but the article says chicken and beef. Is that currently accurate? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:29, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I'd say it's chicken, mutton and beef, at least if you're talking about authentic Malay satay. If you go to a Chinese-run satay stall, sometimes they use pork too, which is obviously not halal. The dog2 (talk) 16:23, 16 June 2018 (UTC)
 * To most English-speakers, "mutton" means the meat of adult sheep. I think you actually mean goat, don't you? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:51, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I guess traditionally, it would be goat since sheep are not native to the region, but it would be halal even if you use sheep, provided it is slaughtered the proper way. I guess a confusion can arise because there are no separate words for goat and sheep in many Asian languages. I know for sure Chinese doesn't, and I believe Malay doesn't either. The dog2 (talk) 14:07, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * It does. Goat is kambing and sheep is kambing biri-biri. Using "mutton" instead of "goat" will confuse everyone who doesn't know that "mutton" in Malaysian/Singapore English means "goat". Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:00, 18 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I guess in Chinese, you can use 綿羊 to refer to sheep, and 山羊 to refer to goat, but quite often, we just use 羊, which can either mean sheep or goat. So 羊肉 can either mean sheep meat or goat meat. Likewise, in Singaporean (and I presume Malaysian) English, both sheep meat and goat meat are called mutton. The dog2 (talk) 04:21, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

Where to include information about Malaysian curries
I'd like to include this, but I don't know whether it's specifically Malay and belongs in the subsection on Malay cuisine, or whether it's more generically Malaysian and belongs elsewhere:

 * Gulai and "kari" are the generic Malay words for "curry". Malay curries are made with a base of coconut milk (not yogurt, as in Northern Indian cuisine) and typically use a rempah (spice mixture) that includes turmeric, shallots, garlic, shrimp paste and dried or fresh chilis. Malaysian tamarind is also frequently used, and if the taste of tamarind is particularly pronounced, it may be called a "kari asam" dish. Curries can feature fish (ikan), chicken (ayam), goat (kambing), shrimp (udang), vegetables, etc.

We also need to cover asam dishes and sayur (not generic vegetables: the dish, usually a side dish, of certain kinds of vegetables boiled in coconut milk with fresh chilis). Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:41, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Sayur is most certainly Malay food. I'm not sure if asam is purely Malay though, as if you go to Penang, Asam Laksa is typically sold by a Chinese and not a Malay. And down in Singapore, we like to put asam in our fish head curry too. : Based on the articles you are active in, you seem very knowledgeable about Malaysia, so what are your thoughts on this? The dog2 (talk) 16:21, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

 * I wonder if there should be a section on Malaysian food that spans ethnicities ("races", in Malaysian terms). Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:51, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Wikidata items for dynamic map
To the right is the map with all Wikidata items for the states of Malaysia. This should simplify the work in case we want to change the district set-up in the future. The tool Wikidata Extractor has been used to create the mapshapes.--Renek78 (talk) 08:22, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Gigantic urban slums
However, you will not find extreme rural poverty or gigantic urban slums as in other places in Southeast Asia

I haven't been to Malaysia since 2003, so I'd like an update on whether the shantytown neighborhood near Brickfields, Kuala Lumpur is still there. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:11, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

 * I haven't visited Kuala Lumpur since 2010, and I didn't visit Brickfields, but in general, compared to when I visited Bangkok two years ago, it appears that the poverty in Kuala Lumpur is not as bad as what you get in Bangkok. As for rural poverty, I encountered some of it in fishing villages in Penang state on the mainland side, but nothing like the crippling poverty I encountered in rural Myanmar. When you travel to rural Myanmar, local vendors will swarm you trying to get you to buy souvenirs from them, while in Malaysia, they generally just stay in their shops and leave you alone unless you approach them to buy something. In fact, it is pretty obvious that Malaysia is not as reliant on tourist dollars as Myanmar, Vietnam or Thailand, as you find much fewer shops catering exclusively to tourists.

 * Do you by any chance know anything about this? The dog2 (talk) 06:06, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

 * I visited Brickfield about a few months ago, and it was no where near 'typical' Southeast Asia slump area. It is probably more similar like the old town during the European colonial period, but not was nowhere near 'dirty' or unorganized. There were no beggars or people sleeping on the street. So I dont think Brickfields can be categorized as one (slum). Chongkian (talk) 07:45, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

 * It sounds like KL is doing better than New York, nowadays! I couldn't say there are no beggars or people sleeping on the street in the East Village! Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:43, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

 * The KL LRT is more pleasant to use than the NYC Subway. I will testify to that. The dog2 (talk) 16:28, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Of course it is! It's way newer and not as crowded! Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:35, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

"restricted to enter"
This is in the warningbox. I don't recognize this phrase as English, because at least as I understand my native tongue, a person can't be restricted to do something, rather than restricted to, for example, a particular area. Does it mean forbidden to enter or subjected to restrictions that prohibit entry except on x or y condition? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:36, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I will think not allowed to enter will be good. The only exceptions seems to be goods trucks going to Singapore are allowed back to Malaysia?--Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 18:58, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, so let's mention that. If there are other exceptions someone knows about, they can be added. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:14, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * For now, I just used the phrase "tourists are not allowed to enter", but what about business travelers (not truckers but someone arriving to try to make deals or whatever)? Are foreigners just plain barred from entry, period, unless they're driving a truck? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:16, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * From whag I hear here in Singapore, it is a blanket ban. You will be a better position for exceptions, I know the goods trucks as our Singapore media reported it. --Camouflaged Mirage (talk) 19:32, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not in a better position. I'm a New Yorker and haven't been to Malaysia since 2003. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:50, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
 * My best attempt. Anyone who has more exact information should please provide it. For example, cargo ships may be allowed in, too, but I wouldn't know. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:53, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

Type of script used in Kelantan
Malaysia says this: "Arabic is taught to those who attend Islamic religious schools, and many clerics as well as other very observant Muslims will have a functional command of Arabic. However, it is not widely spoken, though the Malay language does have a large number of loan words from Arabic. You also might notice some examples of Malay written with Arabic letters. This is called Jawi, and it is still used for religious publications and inscriptions, especially in states like Kelantan, although the Latin alphabet is much more commonly used throughout the country." I'm a little confused. Does that mean the Latin alphabet is used in Kelantan more, or is Malay with Arabic letters. , by any chance, do you both know whether it's the Latin or Arabic alphabet used more? Kelantan says nothing about the Arabic script being used. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:56, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Ikan Kekek will be a better person to comment on this, because I haven't been further up the East Coast of Peninsular Malaysia than Mersing. But in Malaysia, the Latin alphabet is the official script, and that's what I saw whenever I have travelled to Malaysia. In Brunei, both the Latin alphabet and Arabic script are official, but based on what friends from Brunei have told me, the Latin alphabet is by far the more common script they use. The dog2 (talk) 19:58, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Rumi is used more in every state of Malaysia, but Jawi is used more in Kelantan than in any other state. That was certainly true as of 2003, but I doubt it's changed. The phrase "the Latin alphabet is much more commonly used throughout the country" is not clear enough? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:01, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * It's just a bit contradictory when it says "especially in states like Kelantan". But it makes sense now. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:05, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * [Edit conflict] Also, SHB2000, this is what it says in Kelantan: "Highways seem to have more signs with quotes from the Koran than actual traffic instructions; many signs are written in Jawi, the old Arabic script for Malay; and even some Chinese women wear head scarves here." That seems to cover it to me. Visitors don't need to read Jawi to get around in Kelantan, but it's definitely part of the local color, more so than in Terengganu, where you also may see some Jawi. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:07, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I see. Makes sense SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:08, 23 October 2021 (UTC)

Postal codes for articles about Malaysia?
Is it on the exceptions list? Just did some cleanups on Batu Pahat, but I'm not sure whether it's on the exceptions list. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:13, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Do you think you would find them more useful or more irrelevant, if you tried to put that location into your favorite online map program? WhatamIdoing (talk) 07:00, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, I can't remember whether it's on the exceptions list? We don't usually include ZIP/Postal codes in the first place, except for articles about Singapore or Argentina, but can't remember any others. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:04, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think that we ever specifically discussed country. We did not discuss every country in the world. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:00, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I think Malta and the Netherlands are also on the exceptions list, and a couple of British dependencies, but apart from that, I can't remember any others, nor can I remember which page has the exceptions list. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:51, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The UK and Germany are also exceptions. Not sure about Malaysia, but I have no memory of it being one.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:36, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Where can I find this list? --FredTC (talk) 10:34, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Finally found it on WV:Zip. It seems Malaysia isn't on it, so will remove them soon SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:55, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
 * That page says that merely not being listed isn't, by itself, a reason to remove the postal codes. See "This does NOT necessarily imply that any current addressing information should be removed but rather that a judgement needs to be made about whether a postal code provides any information useful to travellers or is just needlessly occupying additional space in a listing."
 * Even when a postal code is generally unhelpful (e.g., 99% of the US), it might be useful in a few cases. There are individual buildings with their own postal codes in the US, and parts of California have a problem with "1234 City Drive" being the same physical street but miles away from "1234 City Ave", or "1234 City Dr" and "1234 E City Dr" (notice that "W City Dr" doesn't exist),  with the postal code being useful insurance against ending up on the wrong end of the street. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:53, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

"Ensure that your passport is stamped"
Is there a problem with Malaysian officials not stamping passports of entering foreign visitors? If there is such a problem, I think we need to be much more blunt about it. And if there is, why? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:13, 7 July 2022 (UTC)
 * There have been lots of stories in the Singaporean media over the years of people whose passports were not stamped when they entered Malaysia, and then having to pay fines of several thousand ringgit before they were allowed to return to Singapore. Here's one story. I can't say for sure that it's deliberate, but even if it was nothing malicious and the immigration officer simply forgot to stamp your passport, you will be considered to have entered illegally, and you will be arrested and made to pay a fine later when you try to leave Malaysia. What do you think? I know this is not true of every country. Once on a trip to South Korea, my brother's passport was not stamped on entry because the immigration officer forgot, and it caused a minor delay at departure immigration when they couldn't find the entry stamp, but once they checked their database and found the record of him entering legally, he was free to go and board the flight back to Singapore. But if that had happened in Malaysia, he might have been arrested and made to pay a fine before they let him leave. The dog2 (talk) 07:21, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I noticed this is addressed in "Stay safe", but I think it needs a little more emphasis in "Get in", too. I'll do something. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:29, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Indians are getting visa-free entry to Malaysia
Malaysia is allowing visa free travel to Indians till December 2024. Should we add it in this article? Libreravi (talk) 22:26, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

 * Please plunge forward! SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 23:36, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot. Added this info in the article. Libreravi (talk) 08:17, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't know how to change colors of the world map in the article showing visa requirements. India and China's color needs to be changed. Can I just edit the svg in my computer and upload? Can we add this map https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:World_map_of_the_visa_policy_of_Malaysia.png to this article? Libreravi (talk) 08:22, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The colours would need to be changed on Commons. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 10:13, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes. So edit the SVG and use the "upload new version" link at Commons (below the list of versions). You need to have a not-too-fresh account on Commons to do the upload, but yours seems to be OK. –LPfi (talk) 10:58, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks @LPfi. I have updated the file in my system but I am not able to overwrite the svg file. For now, I added File:World map of the visa policy of Malaysia.png to this wikivoyage page. Libreravi (talk) 10:47, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Oops. Commons:Overwriting existing files states in the lead that "autopatrol" rights are needed. I thought your autoconfirmed status would suffice. –LPfi (talk) 09:29, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I assume you could ask for that right, at Commons:Requests for rights#Autopatrol. –LPfi (talk) 09:52, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Normally, admins just award such rights unilaterally if they consider the user in question to have a sufficient track record of trustworthiness. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:59, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * They're usually understanding if you make your intent on c:COM:RFR clear. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 10:42, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh, I missed that this is about Commons. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:08, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Nah, don't worry – it happens to all of us :-). SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 12:38, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Malaysia


text:
Talk:Malaysian and Singaporean cuisine

Food pages
I'm planning on writing a page on food in Malaysia and Singapore, covering the cuisines in the region and typical dishes in detail. Questions that I'd like some feedback on:

 * 1) How should this article in particular be named?  There is (AFAIK) no single word that accurately describes it; "Nonya"/"Peranakan" are a specific subtype  (Malay-Chinese fusion); while "Malayan", while geographically accurate, is bound to be confused with "Malay".
 * 2) In general, should articles dedicated to food in region X be called eg. "X food", "X cuisine", or something else?

As a reference point, the only existing article along these lines that I could find is Chinese cuisine in the San Francisco Bay Area. I'll be writing overviews of Japanese and Thai food in the near future as well.

 * In general there probably shouldn't be pages about the food of a region, but rather than information should be imbedded into the Eat section of the destination page for the region. Check out Project:What_is_an_article.

 * I disagree with this (and so does eg. Lonely Planet, which sells entire guides devoted to food). There is no region for Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei, and if I start writing even a brief overview of every significant cuisine in every ASEAN country under South-East Asia, it'll soon be the longest page in Wikivoyage! (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:45, 30 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * Generally the rule of thumb is "do you sleep there?". There have been discussions about creating itinerary articles about types of cooking though, so perhaps if you really want to write about food you should create an Itinerary.

 * As for the article about chinese food in S.F., I'm wondering why it's still around. -- (WT-en) Mark 02:14, 30 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * Ugh. Umm, I think Chinese cuisine in the San Francisco Bay Area, as a fairly controversial article, would be a bad model to follow. I'd question whether a full article on this or that cuisine belongs in a travel guide, too. I'm ambiguous on the matter. Would Italian cuisine, say, cover all the food variations that go under that name -- in Asia, North America, Europe, and of course Italy? Or would it simply concentrate on food in Italy -- which I think is what Italy is for? What do we need to tell a traveller about Italian cuisine?

 * My general feeling: I'd hate to see Foobian cuisine take the place of Foo, since they are two different topics. But I guess I could see some room for experimentation. I'm reminded of the Project:Cultural Expedition here for some reason... Anyways, excellent questions! --(WT-en) Evan 02:27, 30 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * Agree with Evan here. I think Foo#Eat should cover types of eating places, expected costs, etiquette notes and such, while Foobian cuisine should cover the menu of a typical restaurant in Foo (or a Foobian restaurant in Bar). (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:45, 30 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * Look at Singapore as an example. Singapore now tells you about the amenity and price differences between a hawker centre, a coffeeshop and a food court, and these should stay there, while the "Local delicacies" part is what I want to expand on and move into its own page. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:45, 30 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * Well you mentioned an interesting word there-- "local." How do you talk about food with out talking about a place? If you have Malaysian food for example, it's fairly different in say Amsterdam then in Malaysia, so you'll end up with an article by-location anyway, why not just put that in the Eat section for that location? I know LP does Food Guides too, but those are travel-related guides, with itiniraries maps and whatnot, but not the same thing as their travel guides (otherwise they wouldnt be seperate books).

 * And this is exactly why I want to use separate pages! Look into pretty much any guidebook on (say) Thailand or Japan; they'll almost always have a dedicated set of color pages covering the food on a general level. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:08, 30 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * If I want Malaysian food I generally look for it where I am, not plan a trip to Amsterdam to try what they have... It's easier to think about a Singaporian cuisine page than, say, a Chinese or Mexican food page-- things that have versions in just about evevery country (dont get me started about "tacos" in Nepal!)... I think there is room for lots of food info (I'm a big foodie myself) without loosing the destination-centric style we have now... just my 2 pieces of tapas. (WT-en) Majnoona 12:19, 30 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * But "cuisine" is a larger concept than "destination". Eg. you can find good bak kut teh restaurants in Singapore's West Coast, central Singapore and Kuala Lumpur (just to mention existing articles); does it make any sense to repeat the (fairly extensive...) description of what this is and how to eat it in every article?  If there's a good khao soi joint in Bangkok, do I have to link to some restaurant under Chiang Mai for the description, and have the link break when the restaurant disappears?

 * Oh well. I'll plow ahead now and draft up Malaysian and Singaporean cuisine, feel free to comment. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:08, 30 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * Here's another idea. Hope it isn't heretical (I believe Evan prefers Wikivoyage to be self-standing): Put the cuisine stuff in Wikipedia (there's an article already started that sounds just like what you want to do) and then it can be referenced in Wikivoyage whenever and wherever it is appropriate.

Should this become a template?
So I've been thinking about turning this page into a template that could then be read in from Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei articles. Opinions, please. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:28, 8 Jan 2006 (EST)

Food
Indian food in Malaysia has a lot more to offer than just Fish Head Curry and Roti canai. What about banana leaf rice? Mee goreng..

ETC...

 * Plunge forward! But note that this is an article on Malaysian and Singaporean cuisine, so no need to list stuff like tandoori chicken, muttar paneer or aloo gobi here. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:23, 15 Feb 2006 (EST)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Malaysian and Singaporean cuisine


text:
Talk:Malaysian hokkien

Malaysian hokkien
Hokkien phrasebook currently redirects to Minnan phrasebook, which explains that Minnan is called Hokkien in Malaysia. I'm not familiar with these languages enough to know whether they should have two separate articles. This one is currently almost empty.
 * Dunno - (WT-en) Texugo 09:14, 25 February 2009 (EST)
 * There's just one language, so I'd say we only need one article, It is called "Minnan hua", South Fujian speech, in Mandarin. Its own word for itself is "Hokkien", and that word is used in Singapore & Malaysian English. Probably the article should be at Hokkien phrasebook using the English name.

 * I do not think the regional variants Malaysian hokkien or Taiwanese need separate articles, just redirects. For Taiwanese, though, some would disagree on political grounds. (WT-en) Pashley 06:36, 28 February 2009 (EST)
 * There's a rather messy discussion that is somewhat relevant at Talk:Taiwanese phrasebook. (WT-en) Pashley 19:42, 1 March 2009 (EST)
 * Short answer: Redirect to Minnan phrasebook. Long answer: this issue is ridiculously complicated (see ). I would suggest redirecting everything to Minnan phrasebook, writing it up for Xiamen/Amoy dialect of Quanzhou–Zhangzhou with Peh-oe-ji romanization, and then possibly spinning off Taiwanese and Teochew phrasebook etc if there's need. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:35, 1 March 2009 (EST)
 * Redirect I trust Jani's compentence on this --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 21:06, 2 March 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Malaysian hokkien


text:
Talk:Malden

i *heart* malden

 * Glad to hear it, please plunge forward and make the article as *heartable* as the place! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:49, 6 January 2008 (EST)

See
Seeing a parking lot....? --(WT-en) Bulgeen 01:59, 14 June 2011 (EDT)

Merging
Hey Traveler100, thanks for all the great work you're doing on the Massachusetts pages! It's starting to look better and better! I noticed on the expedition page you mentioned merging Melrose_(Massachusetts) here. That's certainly doable. If it were up to me, however, I might instead combine Malden with Medford_(Massachusetts), Everett_(Massachusetts), Chelsea_(Massachusetts), Revere, and Winthrop_(Massachusetts). It feels like there would be a good amount of content in that article, and those are all the towns closest to Boston. I think they all will have similar understand sections and share transit information. Just a suggestion, thanks again for cleaning up! --ButteBag (talk) 14:15, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Interesting idea, I was not thinking that ambitiously but looks like a good idea. Is there some collective name that could be used for these locations? --Traveler100 (talk) 15:44, 3 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Everyone refers to the individual names of the towns, or they might say (in conversation) "north of the city". We could call it "Boston Metro North" or something to that effect? There could also be a "Boston Metro South" consisting of Dedham_(Massachusetts), Milton_(Massachusetts), Quincy_(Massachusetts), and Braintree_(Massachusetts). Same idea with similar understand and transit sections for these articles. --ButteBag (talk) 19:04, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Malden


text:
Talk:Maldives

For future reference the Project:CIA World Factbook 2002 import can be found at Talk:Maldives/CIA World Factbook 2002 import.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3720915.stm - (WT-en) Nils 01:20, 19 May 2004 (EDT)

Regions vs atolls vs islands
The way the Maldives are set up really plays havoc with Wikivoyage's normal "destination" model -- (almost) every resort occupies its own island, which would normally mean that every resort would get its own article, but that's just stupid. So I've split the country into the official regions and propose listing resorts directly on the region pages -- see Kaafu for an example. Opinions? (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:46, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

 * That sounds reasonable – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 20:02, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

Map
The map looks good! The regionbox colors should be synced to it though, and Gan should be tagged as well, perhaps in parentheses after Hithadhoo? (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:24, 13 January 2010 (EST)

 * Believe it or not, those colors were all eyedropped right from the regions—they just looked totally different surrounded by white than by that sea blue color on the map. A bit of painstaking color adjustments by eye, and I think it now looks right. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:56, 13 January 2010 (EST)

 * Awesome map, this country has a strange shape.. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 14:17, 13 January 2010 (EST)

WT's content
It looks like the latest on here added content directly from WT. I assume that this is still not permitted? --Nick talk 12:54, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

 * Copying text from Wikipedia is not strictly forbidden, but is usually a bad idea and in any case, cannot be done without attribution. See Cooperating with Wikipedia for specific policies, the most relevant of which is that the user obviously didn't credit Wikipedia, which is unacceptable and a violation of Wikipedia's CC-SA license. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:23, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

 * Whoops, I misread - this is from WT, not WP. Bad idea for sure, especially w/o citation. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:35, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

 * I reverted the edit, with an edit summary. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:37, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

 * Thanks Ikan! --Nick talk 21:38, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

 * Sure thing. By the way, this was the work of the Telstra vandal, whom I blocked yet again... Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:42, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

 * Really? Ugh... it never ends! But it's great to see WV doing so well! --Nick talk 21:46, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

 * Yes. No doubt s/he will be back by next week if not sooner. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:49, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

 * I'll keep an eye out! --Nick talk 22:04, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Resort for a year?
A Maldives luxury resort is offering unlimited stays for a whole year. Starts at $30,000 for two people. Pashley (talk) 09:30, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Maldives


text:
Talk:Maleny

Witta
This was moved from the Get out section of the article on 31 march 2011

It looks like a potential copvio candidate so please edit with that in mind.

The content below needs to be moved into the appropriate sections:

--Do-- --See-- --Get out--

Please assist by breaking down this block of text and distributing it into appropriate sections to make it more accessable. If it is nearby then it should go into Do or See, if it is somewhere to go to and possibly stay there then put it in Get out. -- (WT-en) felix 07:14, 31 March 2011 (EDT)

Wake up to the beautiful fresh mountain air in one of the many Bed and Breakfast accommodation houses in the green hills of Witta close to the country village of Maleny. You can look over rain forests, grazing cattle with distant mountain ranges and valley vistas. http://www.viewnews.com.au], on the north west ridge of the Blackall Range is a delightful area on the Sunshine Coast hinterland. Just 40 min from the surf beaches of Caloundra and 60 min to trendy Noosa. Blackall Range Maleny area is renowned for its natural calming environment and numerous vantage points for that memorable holiday photo. There are quite a few sightseeing photo opportunities in the area, including a panoramic view of the Glass House Mountains named by Captain Cook, in 1770. The area also has numerous walks. Bushwalking and bird spotting are popular pastimes in this area, explore the walking trails through the ranges, and the rain forests of the Mary Cairncross Scenic Reserve, Glass House Mountains and Conondale ranges, all with in 30 min drive from Witta. Lake Baroon is a beautiful vista and picnic area, stocked with species of fish Bass, Golden Perch. Motor boats are not allowed on the dam, however paddle and sailing boats are a exception. Obi Obi Gorge below the dam Sunshine Coast Hinterland Great Walk is a fulfilling eco friendly journey into the beauty of Queensland nature. 58 km (36 mi) of walk winds through the Blackall Range and traverses some of the most scenic areas of the hinterland including Maleny Forest Reserve, Kondalilla National Park and Mapleton Falls National Park. Experience a half day stroll, a full day hike or an overnight quest. Maps are available from the Visitor Information Centres. All around area Maleny, Witta, Conondale, Kenilworth, and from Mapleton to Montville are Picnic areas, waterfalls, craft and art galleries. There is a wide choice of cafes, accommodation and restaurants in each town and most eateries feature local and organic produce in a picturesque setting which is less than 90 min drive north Brisbane Airport, and 20 min from the Australia Zoo. The nearest capital city and airport is Brisbane: just 95 km (56 mi) away.
 * Wake up to the beautiful fresh mountain air in one of the many Bed and Breakfast accommodation houses in the green hills of Witta close to the country village of Maleny. You can look over rain forests, grazing cattle with distant mountain ranges and valley vistas. Witta, on the north west ridge of the Blackall Range is a delightful area on the Sunshine Coast hinterland. Just 40 min from the surf beaches of Caloundra and 60 min to trendy Noosa.

title: Talk:Maleny


text:
Talk:Malgrat de Mar

Malgrat de Mar is just south of the Costa Brava
Malgrat de Mar isn't part the Costa Brava. Traveling north to south along the coast its the first place of the Costa del Maresme one encounter. The border is between Blanes and Malgrat de Mar, also the border between the provinces Gerona and Barcelona.

title: Talk:Malgrat de Mar


text:
Talk:Mali

Changed some things around
Fixed a couple of typos, updated some transport information (bus/air) and will write some new sections as I find the time. If you're the person who wrote the article to begin with, or just want to talk about Mali, drop me a line! -- Chris (Bamako, Mali)

 * Usually there are more people who wrote something :) I'd like to add that I've put some Mali pictures online (under CC-BY-SA) here. There are probably some nice ones for Wikivoyage pages on Mali... (WT-en) Guaka 14:55, 23 Feb 2005 (EST)

Get In / By Car
It says in the article: "There should soon (within the next few months) be tarmac all the way to Bamako." That is not really helpful, unless we know WHEN this should be a few months away. Was this written one month ago? Or was it written a few years ago? Could someone either date the statement, or say when it is expected to be finished? Or even if it's finished?

Thank you.

Is a Carnet de Passage needed?
Could someone confirm (and include in the article under "Get In / By Car" section) whether you need a Carnet de Passage in order to bring your car into Mali? Wikipedia says that it is helpful to have a carnet, but not that it is compulsory. It would also be nice to know what you need if you don't have a carnet. I do feel that it is a rather important information to have if you're planning on entering Mali by car.

Get In / Visa and Documentation
Does anyone know, and could include in the Get In section, who needs a visa in order to get into Mail? And whether you can get it on arrival on the airport, as well as on various border crossings? And also what other documentation you need.

Thank you.

Warning box?
The warning box is currently enormous. I think it should be cut to something very short & simple, ten lines tops, preferably about three. Move the rest of the text to "stay safe", perhaps. Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 19:15, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't, as Mali has also Ebola now... --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 12:40, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

Koulikoro is not the most populous province in Mali
--Horizon Sunset (talk) 11:58, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

 * Please edit the article as appropriate. Thanks! Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:56, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

 * I am sorry, I didn't edit it because I need to find more evidences to prove it.--Horizon Sunset (talk) 22:20, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mali


text:
Talk:Mallaig

Potentially useful link
Road to the Isles covers the area between Mallaig and Fort William. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 07:05, 13 May 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mallaig


text:
Talk:Mallorca

sources for research on Eat: for the island
Here is two lists that really helped to me personally with restaurants during my 2-weeks trip to Mallorca: For Skyblue, note only that its "average price" is typically for "3 courses taken by two people, per person"--or roughly is twice as much in reality compared to what SkyBlue says. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 14:19, 24 September 2011 (EDT)
 * http://www.skybluemallorca.com/public/Mallorca_Restaurants_by_Town.cfm
 * http://www.eden-hotels.com/en/info/puerto-de-alcudia/leisure.html

request for information
im meant to be going to spain next year but ill only be 16...me and my friends really want to go to magaluf but how hard is it to get into the biggest clubs there without being i.d'd? such as bcm? how strict are they?

any information is appriciated thankyou...

Sleep section
There should not be a sleep section on this page listing hotels or any other individual place to stay. They should be moved to the individual cities and towns. (WT-en) Hypatia 07:19, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

I find this completly fine, but I think it may be considered to add links to websites which cover the whole island and offer valueable information which can't be found in Wikivoyage. Tripadvisor, per example, is one of those: it provides many reviews on hotels and that can't be found here (and this is not place to leave them as well). Anonymous user --81.44.154.165 11:07, 7 December 2007 (EST)

TripAdvisor is a commercial Guide. It may include reviews, but since it's adding more and more content such activities, restaurants and the like, it's no longer a place for reviews, it's a guide. And linking to guide it's not allow as per guidelines.

Constant deletion of a link without a proper explanation
Very well then, I will gladly write to you here. I have already tried using Wiki talk for inquires as to why the link that Complies with the wikivoyage standards is constatly deleted, but I seem to get no answer. Deleting my contribution seemed to have gotten your attention and I would appreciate you letting me know why a link that goes to an original company (not a booking site, etc.), to their fractional ownership yachts page, which explains the concept and would be useful to those who want to participate in a yacht share in Mallorca is constantly deleted. I have checked you reference to What not to link and I seem to be in the clear.

Thanks! Looking forward to your answer. —The preceding comment was added by 85.169.67.39 (talk • contribs)

 * I hope you don't mind that I moved your post to the bottom of the page, as is customary for new posts, and added a signature, which in the future you can do by typing 4 tildes in a row.

 * I will mostly defer to Ryan and Powers on their objections, but my take on it is that instead of posting what I would consider a real listing, you sought to arrogate to your own business an entire concept - yacht fractional ownership. Even if it's the case that your company is the only one in Mallorca that does yacht fractional ownership, you didn't say that, and readers shouldn't be directed to an external link to read the definition of a concept or practice.

 * That said, it would be a good idea to wait for other views before posting a more normative and full listing. Best to know what objections others may have before you potentially get reverted again.

 * I'll also say that you are more likely to persuade others if you take the chip off your shoulder. This guide is meant by and for travelers, not business people. We're delighted to have constructive edits by businesspeople - please read welcome, business owners - but we are not particularly sympathetic to self-interested objections from business owners who consider their listings (or in this kind of case, mere links with no street address, no contact information, no full description, etc., in obvious violation of our external links policy, if you'd think a little more about it) to be so important because they want to use this site for free advertising. We don't exist to provide a space for you to post a free link to your business. Either you merit a full listing, or nothing at all. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:40, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

 * That sums it up pretty well. We don't link to external sites to explain concepts; we only link to businesses if they have a listing in our guides.  Powers (talk) 13:32, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Extra city descriptions
The Cities section of this article should not list more than 9 cities. I removed some redlinked cities and I am saving the following here in case we want to use these descriptions elsewhere. Texugo (talk) 17:34, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Binssalem - located to the north of Palma, this small town features an impressive cathedral and many fine local restaurants.
 * Cala d'Or - resort on the east coast, well known for its annual Jazz Festival.
 * Cala Moraia - resort as well on the east coast, access to golf courses and smaller beaches.
 * Esporles - Small village between Banyalbufar and Valldemossa and just 12 km from Palma de Mallorca. At the feet of the Tramuntana mountains, its San Pedro festivities are its important day (in August)
 * Fornalutx - one of the most attractive villages on the west coast, good starting point for hikers.
 * Inca - the second largest city, renowned for its leather factories.
 * Manacor - the third largest city, famous for its furniture shops and pearl factories. There is also a large shop on the outskirts of the town that specialises in products made from the wood of the Olive tree.
 * Sa Pobla - small, rural municipality in the district of Raiguer on Majorca. Hosts fantastic Jazz Festival.
 * Sineu - the geographical heart of the island, a small village best visited on Wednesdays, the weekly market is enormous.

Beach list
This region article should not try to list every beach on the island. I have removed the following list of undescribed beaches from the article. Texugo (talk) 17:36, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Cala Fonoll
 * Reco De Sarena
 * Sant Pere
 * En Repic
 * Cala Torta
 * Cala Es Carregador
 * Pollenca
 * Santa Ponsa
 * Coll Baix
 * Cala Mitjana
 * Oratori De Portals
 * Cala Es Marmols
 * Es Marques
 * Es Port Des Canonge
 * Sa Calobra
 * Cala Murada
 * Cala Major
 * Cala Estremer
 * Cala Dor
 * Cala Tuent
 * Formentor
 * Cala Bota
 * Cala Basset
 * Port De Valldemosa
 * Cala Fornells
 * Cala Deia
 * Port De Soller
 * Torrent De Pareis
 * Son Bunyola
 * Sant Elm
 * Son Bunyola
 * Sant Elm
 * Sant Elm

Getting there from the U.S.
Does no one from the states travel here? —The preceding comment was added by 98.22.183.118 (talk • contribs)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 08:54, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * 18-11-01-Mallorca-Port-d-Alcudia-PANO0001-0009-Panorama.jpg

title: Talk:Mallorca


text:
Talk:Malmö

Parks?
 * Added now finally. Thanks for the idea! (WT-en) Metaur 18:30, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

Isn't anyone going to add anything about the stalls that usually pop up during december on the pedestrian street from Triangeln to Gustav Adolfs Torg and beyond? To my annoyance I can't find any mention of it on malmo.se, but then again they might have stopped with it by now (I moved abroad a few years ago). Regarding the For Kids category, a mention of the child-run fleamarket ( http://www.malmo.se/Medborgare/Kultur--noje/Festivaler--utomhusevenemang/Loppmarknader.html ) might be worth a mention, on top of the tons of stuff in for instance Folkets Park especially during the summer season with all the rides. Might be good to mention under that heading that there are many events during the Malmö festival that especially cater to children.81.147.113.190 17:36, 22 March 2010 (EDT)

Alternative banner for this article?

I created a new alternative banner for this article (I initially created it first and foremost so that it would be used at the top of the parallel article in the Hebrew edition of Wikivoyage, yet I later decided to also suggest that the English Wikivoyage community would consider using it here as well). So, which banner do you prefer having at the top of this article? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 04:59, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Our current banner seems rather at variance with site policy on people in images, so I'm going with the suggested replacement, but a better image is certainly imaginable. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:48, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Unless the original is really against our site policy, I would vote to keep it. The proposed is extremely uninspiring. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 13:17, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Change. Danapit (talk) 19:29, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep. PrinceGloria (talk) 20:33, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep, even if it means bending the rules a bit while waiting until a better image pops up. A banner focussing on a construction site and a traffic junction really doesn't do justice to Malmö. JuliasTravels (talk) 21:14, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Why don't we use the one that the sister WVs use? Oresund Bridge is iconic for Malmö. Danapit (talk) 22:06, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, let's do that. JuliasTravels (talk) 22:11, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Yep, problem solved. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:13, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * We have changed from that very banner because it is too generic - the Oresund bridge is not specific to Malmo, but rather the entire region. The redeveloped Western Harbour area with the seafront and Turning Torso (not pictured as it is not possible to do so in our banner format) is much more specific to Malmo. PrinceGloria (talk) 16:13, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Off course, bridges always have two sides. However the picture quality of the current banner is low and the image is rather unspecific anyway. It only contains a corner of one building which could perhaps be recognized. I don't think it was a very good idea to switch it in the first place without opening a discussion at the talk place. Danapit (talk) 16:21, 24 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I let you debate the location, but the bridge is nicer. Syced (talk) 09:18, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

 * Here is another banner candidate, which includes the Turning Torso. What do you say? /Yvwv (talk) 16:35, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
 * It looks good. It would work well for Malmö. Danapit (talk) 17:04, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Yet another candidate. One of these could possibly be used if Söderslätt or Southwestern Scania will be a sub-region again. /Yvwv (talk) 18:32, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Lilla glassfabriken
What kind of place is Lilla glassfabriken? Special:Diff/4470369/4503952 moved from Drink to Eat. Was that just because ice cream is eaten, not drunk? Or can you get a meal there? The description was not changed. As the editor was not logged in, I assume the former and will revert, but if you know something, please do what's appropriate. –LPfi (talk) 06:09, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

 * No, they don’t serve any food. I didn’t know that ice cream parlours go under Drink. // Anonymus 212.247.82.10 07:25, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

 * Not obvious from the headings, no. But more useful to keep the meals in one place and separate from the non-meal places. That you can go to a café for a soup blurs the picture, but common sense can often be used.

 * –LPfi (talk) 07:42, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:54, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Malmö Collage2.jpg

 * Collage used as lead image. We usually don't do collages, so another image should be used instead. However, the file is used on many Wikipedias, so sad if it has to go. The collage gives sources for four out of six used images, go figure what the uploader thought (I assume a simple mistake). –LPfi (talk) 10:37, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Malmö


text:
Talk:Malone (New York)

This is also the home town of influential guitarist/songwriter Bob Mould! 208.105.252.210 08:31, 14 November 2011 (EST)

There is no "State Route 11" per http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Route_11 K7L (talk) 15:44, 31 October 2012 (CET)
 * Obviously, "U.S. Route 11" is meant. LtPowers (talk) 16:32, 31 October 2012 (CET)

Adirondacks or North Country
Malone is clearly outside of the borders of the Adirondacks region, according to the map on that article. Shouldn't it be in the North Country region? Powers (talk) 01:02, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
 * It would seem so. See also Talk:Adirondacks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:47, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Malone (New York)


text:
Talk:Malta

Seaplane service to Gozo
The seaplane service to Gozo is not operating at present. It was suspended in 2012, and there is currently no indication as to when or if it will be reinstated.

http://www.maltastar.com/dart/20120912-sea-plane-between-malta-and-gozo-stops-flying

Other destinations
First of all imho the listings should be converted from marker to listing. Second of all I don't think all of them belong there. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:42, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

 * Yeah, too long a list, and "a locality" is probably a "city" under Wikivoyage definitions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:34, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

Districtification of the island of Malta + reigning in location guides
Our coverage of Malta is, unfortunately, quite a lot below par and I am about to try to improve it every way that I can, but I noticed that our current article structure is not very helpful to travellers.

Most importantly, we seem to have an unnecessary level in the hierarchy by having the island of Malta as a region. The other two islands, Comino especially, are small enough to have a single destination guide each, with Gozo being the size of San Marino. Malta Island, however, already has 15 destinations listed. Even though the latter mostly contain three or less listings, they are legitimate, existing places, and on an island of that size and of such long history of advanced civilzation, there are abound to be multiple listings in each municipality.

I would thus advocate to:
 * 1) Divide Malta Island into regions along the lines of w:Districts of Malta (the statistical ones, not the electoral)
 * 2) Bundle up other destination articles, including their listings, into final-level destination articles for each district
 * 3) Leave out Valetta, as it is already a pretty mature article
 * 4) Should we gather enough listings for a particular municipality, we can carve it out down the road - but this seems to be a long time away,

...this would allow us to cut down on redundant content and bundle useful information into easily-digestible guides to each part of the small country, and help deciding where to add new listings, which often fall in between named localities.

I am willing to do most of this myself, but am not good with maps - anybody willing to help out with a districtified Malta map?

And, first and foremost, anybody for / against my proposal?

Thanks for chiming in,

--PrinceGloria (talk) 14:17, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

 * Nice to hear from you, PrinceGloria! I'm not sure I completely understand your proposal. Are you thinking of the proposed districts as being bottom-level articles? That can certainly work, and they can probably be titled "[Name of largest city in district]", with the lede explaining that x, y, z, a and b villages are also covered, or "[Name of largest city in district] and environs", though I don't think we've used such a title before. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:05, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

 * Thank you for your comment. I was thinking to use the district names, i.e. Southern Harbor District of Malta or Southern Harbor of Malta. It is very hard to choose one particular municipality over another, as they tend to be of similar size and importance to travellers. What is important, however, is that they are in a particular part of island, sharing instructions as to how to "Get in" and "Get around", as well as general "Understand" and parts of others. This would also make it easier to easily allocate listings which are not in the centres of particular settlements, as Malta is generally one contigious small city now. PrinceGloria (talk) 04:21, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

 * That's alright with me. I suppose it would be best to use some kind of city template for these bottom-level region articles. About how many listings do you see there being in each of the bottom-level articles when you and anyone who helps you is more or less finished? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:00, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

 * Let me try to cobble them together in Sandbox mode and we shall see. From the extant articles as they stand - probably a dozen altogether across all categories (which adds up to 1-2 per category, such as "See" or "Eat"). But each of the districts has at least a dozen of "See" actual POIs alone, not to mention Malta has 150+ hotels alone, not to mention other forms of accommodation. PrinceGloria (talk) 08:09, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

 * That's good enough for me. You have my blessing, but by all means, flesh things out, and I think we should have more comments, preferably from people who've actually visited Malta; I haven't had the pleasure. So maybe post to the Pub. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:14, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Spelling conventions
Per wv:spelling, it says Malta should be using Maltese English. Then why does it say British English here? (though I don't exactly know the difference here) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:00, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Because they officially use British English, right? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:00, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Is there any actual difference in the written standard? Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:27, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

 * It may be like Zimbabwean English where there's very few differences. But I'm changing it per the spelling conventions. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:03, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Does this mean just about nobody can make language variety related copy editing? Do we have a single user who knows in what ways Maltese differs from other varieties? –LPfi (talk) 11:57, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia provides nothing, apart from that in some areas, Italiano is also written. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:59, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
 * If we have no information on what Maltese spelling means, the advise to contributors to use Maltese spelling is quite useless. I think it should be changed back to something that contributors can understand and use, i.e., British spelling. If someone well versed in Maltesiana comes and explains the difference, I'll change my mind. Ground Zero (talk) 12:07, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I changed it on second thought because, most travellers would be foreigners, and unlike en-GB, en-US or en-AU which are used in more than one country, Maltese English is only used in Malta. Canadian english is a different story since there'd be a lot of domestic tourism in Canada, unlike Malta. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:17, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

Cities
Here's a list of the 10 cities that were listed here:

 * – the capital, named for Jean Parisot de la Valette, a French nobleman who was Grand Master of the Order of St. John and leader of the defenders during the Turkish siege of Malta in 1565. Valletta is a UNESCO World Heritage site for the massive number of historical buildings found in a tiny space.
 * (Three Cities) – The name used when referring to the three historic and ancient cities of Birgu (aka Vittoriosa), Isla (aka Senglea) and Bormla (aka Cospicua), three towns conglomerated by 16th century fortifications called the Cottonera lines.
 * – fishing village south of the island. A big market is held every Sunday.
 * – Malta's well-preserved quiet old capital. pronounced 'im-dina'
 * – 3rd largest city (in population) of Malta, boasting of Mosta Dome – the fourth largest dome in Europe and the ninth largest dome in the world.
 * – hosts numerous historical attractions such as St. Paul's catacombs and the Domus Romana (previously known as Roman Villa)
 * – perfect area for nightlife & entertainment.
 * – shopping area just north of Valletta.
 * – the main town on Gozo.
 * – the largest city in the south of Malta and one of the oldest cities in Malta.

There's 10 here, so I removed the redlink. But it seems that Zejtun is the largest city in the south so I'm just going to create the article. But what should stay, and which one should be removed. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:23, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

 * The former redlink being Żejtun, I presume. Just being large is probably not a sufficient reason to list it, but I suppose it has other reasons to be listed. Victoria being the main town of Gozo is neither – Gozo will tell that. Until Żejtun is better developed I think we don't have to change anything. –LPfi (talk) 12:32, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Malta


text:
Talk:Maluku

Maluku vs Moluccas
Googlefight: Maluku 1,800,000 hits vs. Moluccas 428,000. "Moluccas" sounds very outdated to me and I never heard the term used while in Indonesia. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:21, 1 January 2007 (EST)

Because the word "moluccas" is not commonly used to refer the islands. Most Indonesians are also more familiar with the word "maluku", but i think it's best to use both the name when referring the islands Celnuel (talk) 16:35, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

 * I lived in Singapore in the 80s & Moluccas is the only term I recall hearing. I'd have said it was the commonest English name & the obvious name for the article. However, I'll concede to those with more recent experience. Pashley (talk) 04:25, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

 * What word did they use for Sulawesi? Anyway, the 1980s is a while ago, as you said. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:46, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Regions
North Maluku and South Maluku is the obvious split, but I'm under the impression that it might be useful to subdivide South Maluku further. Now if anyone has any suggestions... ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:06, 27 October 2011 (EDT)

I also prefer to subdivide South Maluku, but wikivoyage (when talking about regions in Indonesia) tend to divide the regions accordingly to their provinces. I don't know if this is compulsory though, but since we're making a tourist guide not a political encyclopedia I think it's okay if someone want to subdivide south maluku... Celnuel (talk) 16:40, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

 * It's absolutely not compulsory. Regional divisions on this site are supposed to be those of most help to the traveler. But I would suggest that right now, no subdivision is most useful, as there are only 6 blue (live) links to articles about constituent islands and 2 blue links to city articles in Maluku. We can revisit this question later if more articles are written. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:57, 19 December 2016 (UTC

Islands
There's a problem with the regional division of Maluku. I notice there's a live link for North Halmahera, but none for Halmahera or South Halmahera. It's a problem that there is no clear set of links to islands in this article. Ambon, Ternate, Buru, Banda Islands have articles; Seram and quite a few others do not. Furthermore, there's no clear linkage to these articles from the Maluku article. Anyone who knows this part of Indonesia sufficiently to deal with these problems would be performing a good service for readers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:06, 28 January 2017 (UTC)

 * The problem with creating a link for Halmahera or South Halmahera is their remoteness. It's very remote -even among Indonesians- and there are nothing to do there (with the exception of the diving spots in North Halmahera) so I don't think it's worth a page on it's own. Instead of creating a page about halmahera or south halmahera, I think for now it's better to create a page about the whole north Maluku province. However, I agree with you on creating live linkage to other articles for the readers to click. Celnuel (talk)

 * Understood. By all means, district Maluku in whichever way makes most sense from a traveller's perspective. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:17, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Infobox: Manhattan and Run
The last sentence 'So without the disputed island Run New York City would probably never have existed' is nonsense. I propose to delete this sentence.--WiDi (talk) 13:09, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Go ahead. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:57, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Done. --WiDi (talk) 09:44, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Guide?
I just bumped the status tag from Outline to Usable. Would anyone disagree?

If it were Guide, it would be a fine candidate for featuring as OtBP, or perhaps even Dotm. What does it need to get there? Pashley (talk) 04:00, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Maluku