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Talk:Istanbul

Road Signs
It's not true that there's a lack of road signs in Istanbul. I'm from Bulgaria, first time I visit Istanbul by car few weeks ago. There's road signs practically on every crossing, so I didn't lost myself in anytime. (Par example, I did lost my self so often in Sofia, 10 times smaller than Istanbul). I do not use a GPS navigation, only a paper map of Istanbul. I found my hotel in Sultanahmed from the first try. The parking was adventure, but I found one place near the hotel and immediatelly use it :)

Road signs used to be a problem. now they got common and useful. (WT-en) Ozanbaba 13:24, 17 June 2010 (EDT)

Safety
Istanbul is one of the safest metropols in the world.But you should be careful sometimes.Especially when you walk in crowded streets like Istiklal.(I do not recommend you to go there after 10pm)As for historical peninsula,it is safe too but sometimes sellers in the streets can be annoying.But if you have a Turkish with you especially a licenced tourist guide ,they do not come to you.Your guide can tell them to go away kindly in their own language:)and they understand.

 * On the contrary, being in the crowd is actually much much safer than empty streets. Istiklal and other crowded areas are usually full of civilian dressed cops, which monitor any and all crimes. Although I can definitely say that they observe, they act on crimes around 60 % of the time. Istiklal starts getting livelier after 10 pm, and the crowds start dispersing after 2 am. After 3 am, Istiklal street is literally empty.
 * As a Turk living in Istanbul, I have not heard the word "Karakoncolos" in my life, ever. I suggest you remove it and get help from some Turkish speaking editors.
 * Hitchhiking in Turkey is generally not a good idea. It is usually seen as asking to get robbed, or raped. If you don't believe me, refer to Pippa Bacca's case. - Ahmet —The preceding comment was added by 130.185.155.130 (talk • contribs)

 * I haven't personally heard karakoncolos either, but I knew about the concept (there is even a Wikipedia article about it) before that was added to the article recently. Maybe that was a word used for this purpose by the Eski İstanbullular, whose roots in the city go back several generations/centuries, but I just don't know, and I guess it's rare enough that it could be removed from the list.
 * Hitchhiking in Turkey is most definitely not asking for getting robbed or raped; on the contrary, it is a cheap, easy, and fun way to travel around the country (I'm sorry but when I see such an extremely negative comment about hitchhiking, I immediately think that the comment comes from someone who has not tried to hitchhike even once in his/her lifetime). Pippa Bacca was an unlucky individual whose horrible death deeply saddened me (my grief gets even bigger when I think of why she was hitchhiking in the first place), and you might advice lonely female hitchhikers to be more careful and aware when they hitchhike in Turkey, but rising a thumb beside a highway most likely does not have any other hints than "I need a ride down this road—would you make me a favour and take me in your vehicle?" and is done every year without any problems by lots of individuals—female and male, and single and couple/in groups alike. After all, there is a guide for females on how to hitchhike safely in Turkey, written by a female traveller, who hitchhiked literally everywhere in Turkey, including the most remote town of all, Hakkari. – Vidimian (talk) 11:31, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Water Quality
The quality of tap water has considerably increased in the past decade. I think current tap water is drinkable. Well at least it is practically drinkable. 70.51.217.20 01:41, 22 June 2006 (EDT)

 * I'm not sure what "practically" drinkable could mean. --(WT-en) Evan 10:32, 22 June 2006 (EDT)

i live in istanbul, it is not drinkable ...

I am an American currently on a month long business trip in Istanbul. Not even the locals drink the water. All of the restaurants pour water only directly from the bottle. Outside of restaurants, bottled water is available virtually everywhere, including by merchants and Gypsie children who run around in the middle of traffic to sell it. In the places of the city where I have been, the water seems to be mostly clean. It does not have any funny odors or smell that are typical of many undrinkable water sources. I have found it perfectly acceptable for showers and brushing teeth so long as it is not swallowed. -Scott

Anyone who can afford to buy bottled water does. It is true that you won't get severly ill but it will give you an upset stomach. A bottle of water is 25 cents so why risk it. I think this should be changed and it should say that the water is not drinkable. Turks may be able to drink it but tourists should not. Every hotel I've ever been to has a sign in the bathroom saying not to drink the water. - Kelly

As a citizen, living in Turkey, I don't drink tap water. That has many reasons; first and most important of all is the uncontrollable suburbian living areas, located very close or around the water sources, and the pollution they create.

 * I was in Turkey August 2007. We often drank tap water in the better hotels (and no, I don't see what that has to do with the municipal water supply!). Out of a group of 34 only one "suffered" and I am not sure it was tap water that did it. We made a conscientious effort to buy bottled water, but it just wasn't always possible. (WT-en) Student7 22:03, 13 September 2007 (EDT)

Living in Istanbul I can say that the water is safe to drink, it however is so over chlorinated as to be unpleasent. Most people here continue to drink bottled water, myself included, because no matter how safe the city government says it is it still just tastes bad. Those who do not posses the mean to buy botled water can fill up their own containers from the corners faucets provided by the city government these are supplied by a seperate source or at least that's what they say. -Amy

i don't drink the tab water but i drink faucets. Amy is right tab water does not taste well, but it got less chlorinated over the years. by the way most of the water source of the faucets are indeed different. they are usually underground water sources. (in kadıköy, mostly kayışdağı is the main source.) (WT-en) Ozanbaba 13:23, 17 June 2010 (EDT)

I've been in Istanbul well over a week now now. The water at one hotel tasted truly awful and I almost vomited (I left that hotel mostly because of that). The water at another hotel is pretty bad, but swallowable. In both cases I think it's the pipes, since the water at another hotel tasted fine, as does the water from the hand-washing fountains that are everywhere in the old city. Personally, I think the public water supply tastes better than bottled water. I had an old man warn me against it today, which is why I came here, but I've been drinking the water here my whole time with no problems. I think the Turks warn against it for the same reasons the Koreans and Mexicans in cities where the water *is* drinkable (that varies widely in Mexico), warn against the water--it used to be undrinkable, and old habits die hard. ~ Arthur (85.99.254.211 14:05, 27 August 2011 (EDT))

Rail Travel
Is it possible now to travel completely by rail from the airport to Levent? (ASM)

 * yes, it is possible to travel from airport to levent and taksim and more ...

stray cats in Sultanahmet

 * ''Sultanahmet ... has a high number of stray cats, so in some parts of Sultanahmet in March..April you may be rocked to sleep by a lively feline chorus.

Can anyone living with deep knowledge of Istanbul districts confirm/deny that the number (or "density") of stray cats in Sultanahmet is much more than in the rest of the city?

BTW, originally this piece read like this:
 * Sultanahmet has a high number of stray cats, so no matter where you wind up sleeping you are likely to be rocked to sleep by a lively feline chorus.

and I assumed that it actually refers to some part of spring time, like March or April. However, we'd prefer real experience on dates this fact does/not apply to. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:30, 20 January 2007 (EST)

 * Stray cats hang out wherever the tourists are as well as near the fish markets and Bosphorous. Sultanahmet has a dense population of cats in contrast to other parts of the city (I'd say 1 for every 100 square meters) but they leave you alone. I was there in December and the cats were everywhere - sleeping on rugs outside shops, inside the Hagia Sophia, begging for food outside the Archaelogy Museum but never heard this chorus at night.

Actually it is always said that the highest concentration of stray cats in Istanbul is in Cihangir, a district near Taksim.
 * This does seem to be a big exaggeration. Especially given that the mosques broadcast their extremely loud call to prayer at, like 5.00 am each day, who really cares about a few cats. (I stayed there for four nights.) Plenty of cities have hordes of cats hanging around (like in the Roman ruins) and cats don't habitually sing in nighttime choruses. (WT-en) Melbased 21:11, 1 May 2010 (EDT)

Districtify
Any way you cut it, Istanbul is a "Huge City." It would be far better if this article could be made into a series of districts as is done for other cities in this class. Istanbul is an incredibly important and notable place, and it would be nice to run it as a Destination of the Month, but until a district structure is created and populated, it'll be hard to defend for DotM. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 11:22, 27 October 2007 (EDT)

 * And for Istanbul I vote for reaching consensus on which districts to create and which borders each of them has. We have detailed recommendations on this in Project:Geographical hierarchy. BTW, if you feel the recommendations are not perfect, we have a discussion to join. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 15:25, 27 October 2007 (EDT)

 * I'm not suggesting we use administrative districts, but this will be a great base for a districts map. I know Istanbul reasonably well, and will try to come up with a structure. (But that won't get it to DotM quality alone!) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 05:59, 7 August 2008 (EDT)

 * I'm also working on a districtification suggestion and I'll post it here soon.--(WT-en) Vidimian 18:24, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

 * I stalled on my plan when I realized Istanbul is huge and I don't know it well enough. I'm looking forward to seeing your idea! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:31, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

Districtification suggestion
Sooner or later, Istanbul article will (have to) be districtified. Istanbul is so big, and attractions are so much (many of which are missing in the article by the way) that, it should already have been districtified in my opinion. Districtification will also help all parts of the city to get their due attention.

Anyway, before I’ve moved to some other place a few months ago, I had lived in Istanbul for seven years, so I assume I know the city pretty well. Here are my suggestions on Wikivoyage districts of Istanbul. I am also writing here the official districts they correspond to make it clear. You can check them on (the unnamed section between Beyoğlu, Kağıthane and Beşiktaş on the map is also Şişli)

 * 1) Istanbul/Old City, or better Istanbul/Historical Peninsula as this is how it’s called in Turkish (Tarihi Yarımada). In the European side, between Marmara and the Golden Horn. From Seraglio Point (Sarayburnu) near Topkapi Palace in the east to all the way to city walls in the west. Also includes Sultanahmet Square. Likely to be the district with the biggest number of see/sleep listings. Official districts: Eminönü, Fatih
 * 2) Istanbul/Beyoğlu or Istanbul/Beyoglu: North of Golden Horn, includes Galata/Karaköy, Tophane, Cihangir, Beyoğlu, Istiklal Street, and Taksim Square. This will also likely to have lots of listings, especially in sleep/drink sections. Official district: Beyoğlu
 * 3) Istanbul/Golden Horn: Areas on the both banks of Golden Horn which are not covered by Istanbul/Historical Peninsula or Istanbul/Beyoğlu. Official districts: Eyüp, Kağıthane
 * 4) Istanbul/New City (this name sounds a little obscure, but I couldn’t find a better one): North of Beyoğlu/Taksim Square, the area along the subway line, including Nişantaşı and adjacent areas (Şişli, Maçka etc), and all the way to high-rise business district around Levent and Maslak in the north. Official districts: Şişli, upper parts of Beşiktaş
 * 5) Istanbul/Bosphorus or Istanbul/Bosporus (I don’t know which version is used more frequently in English): By this name, I mean not the body of water, but the areas located on its banks. In Turkish there is a different word for it (Boğaziçi, literally ‘inside the Strait/Bosporus’; while Boğaz is the Strait/Bosporus itself) but it seems it doesn’t have an exact English equivalent. This may be a transcontinental district which includes both banks of Bosporus or may be limited to European bank of Bosporus. If we disclude Asian bank, then we have to make up another name such as Istanbul/European Bosporus or Istanbul/European bank of Bosporus (or maybe Istanbul/Bosporus_(Europe)?). I know both names suck, but I can’t think of any better. Official districts: lower parts of Beşiktaş and Sarıyer in Europe; also Üsküdar and Beykoz if we decide to include Asian bank.
 * 6) Istanbul/Asian Side or Istanbul/Asian side (I don’t know which version is correct), may also be called Istanbul/Anatolian Side as it is how this place is usually called in Turkish (Anadolu Yakası), but I guess this usage is a little rare in English. Includes all of Asian side, except Üsküdar and Beykoz if we decide to put them in Istanbul/Bosporus. Official districts: All mainland districts east of Bosporus except Şile (which, actually, is a town fairly out of city and deserves its own/seperate city article, not a district one), and maybe except Üsküdar and Beykoz (see above).
 * 7) and finally, Istanbul/Princes' Islands, those nine islands off the Asian coast of Istanbul. Official district: Adalar

As you can see from the, after all the district suggestions listed above, we still have a seemingly huge tract of land in the west of the city with no district allocated. They don’t have much to list on a Wikivoyage article (except a few hotels, mainly near the airport, and maybe a few ‘see’ and ‘buy’), and a casual traveller will unlikely visit those places, so we may put them all together into one district article and call it something like Istanbul/Western Suburbs or Istanbul/Western suburbs (I don’t know which version is right). Official districts (east to west): Zeytinburnu, Bayrampaşa, Güngören, Bakırköy, Bahçelievler, Bağcılar, Esenler, Gaziosmanpaşa, Küçükçekmece, Avcılar, Büyükçekmece. Note: This article should not include Çatalca and Silivri, which, actually, are towns fairly out of city and should have their own/seperate city articles (if need be).

We may also have an additional stub article named Istanbul/European Side which includes (in isIn tags, for example) and provides links for all districts on European Side (i.e., all of them except Istanbul/Asian Side and Istanbul/Princes' Islands). (but is it logical and technically possible that a district article to include other district articles?)

With this districtification layout, anywhere in the city is part of a district and we have no overlapping. These districts can also be further fragmanted into new districts with no problems if a need arises (for example, if Bakırköy occupies too much of Istanbul/Western Suburbs some day, then we can create Istanbul/Bakırköy and split the related content and leave Istanbul/Western Suburbs to other official districts it contains). These district suggestions are also in line with the different ‘spirits’ of the different areas of the city as well. For example, mostly Ottoman/Oriental-spirited Istanbul/Historical Peninsula is seperate from Istanbul/Beyoğlu with its late Ottoman/West-inspired spirit, which in turn is seperate from Republican era/High-rise Istanbul/New City.

I say, let’s start with Istanbul/Historical Peninsula, Istanbul/Beyoğlu, Istanbul/Asian Side, and Istanbul/Princes' Islands at least. These have very clear geographical/historical/administrative borders that any opposition will be unlikely.

I volunteer for the work of sorting the existing listings into district articles and checking new listings on the city article (and relocate them into districts if it’s necessary) during a few next months after the districtification would have taken place. But I am not online very frequently (once every couple of weeks for example), so that process can be a little slow.

Also, as far as I can tell, many places are missing especially in see/drink sections. So, until districtification occurs (or until listings are more complete) I suggest to downgrade the status of this article to ‘usable’.

Any opinions? --(WT-en) Vidimian 09:55, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

 * This looks great to me. I'm only familiar with three of the proposed districts, but they look absolutely correct to me. My thoughts:

 * 1) I prefer Istanbul/Old City to Istanbul/Historical Peninsula—the latter is more standard in English, and sounds more natural to my ear
 * 2) New City sounds fine to me, especially as it would parallel Old City
 * 3) My hunch is that we should separate the European and Asian divisions along the Bosphorus (and Bosphorus is about 2x more common than Bosporus according to Google), if for no other reason than that the Asian article will not have enough content without including Beykoz and Üsküdar.
 * 4) Istanbul/European Bosphorus sounds like a fine name to me.
 * 5) Maybe Istanbul/Asia would be a better name? That would convey what is meant clearly. Otherwise, use Istanbul/Asian Side, with the capital S.

I tried to put up a map of Istanbul's districts as you have defined them. If it is necessary to make changes, please let me know. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 11:57, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

 * My two cents: I think the areas of your districts are OK, but we should use more common names. The name doesn't have to cover the whole region, it's OK to call a district "X" and then define it as "X, Y and Z".

 * So, what you call "Historical Peninsula" is usually just "Sultanahmet" as far as tourists are concerned, and likewise "Galata" is better known than "Beyoglu". I would suggest moving Taksim out of the Beyoglu section, and renaming "New City" as "Taksim" instead.

 * We usually don't divide districts by water, so I'd prefer to avoid Bosphorus and Golden Horn: I don't have any better ideas though. (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:40, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

The map seems totally right, except that it needs two tiny changes: The islands (to the lower right of the map) should not be the same colour with Asian Side, as they really deserve their own district article. And as I tried to explain before, Şile (to the above right), and Silivri and Çatalca (both at left) should be greyed out, as they are not really part of the city of Istanbul, so they shouldn’t be given (or made part of) a district of the city of Istanbul.

Regarding the district names:

Galata may indeed be a better name (well, not better exactly in coverage, but better in the sense of being more known). But seperating Taksim from Beyoglu/Istiklal Street area doesn’t make much sense, as Taksim is the transport hub and the most major entry point for Istiklal Street area, and it’s impossible to think of Istiklal Street without Taksim Square, which is one of its two end points. If I were to name one of the proposed districts as ‘Taksim’, I would definitely give it to Galata/Beyoglu/Istiklal Street area. Naming the district (proposed as ‘New City’) which includes the high-rise business district in Maslak (approx. 12 km to Taksim Sq.) or the gentrified residential/commercial zone in Etiler (approx. 8 km to Taksim Sq.) as ‘Taksim’ would be overkill in my opinion.

Although it’s true that ‘Old City’/’Historical Peninsula’ is mostly Sultanahmet for tourists (as that is where most of the frequently visited historical monuments are), the name Sultanahmet is too narrow for such a big part of the city. ‘Old City’/’Historical Peninsula’ does offer way more than Sultanahmet Square, think about it: This part of the city is actually the Constantinople that fell. Even when a traveller with a knowledge of, for example Hagia Sophia or Blue Mosque, comes to this page looking for these two, s/he’ll soon recognize that they should be situated in ‘Old City’ even if s/he can’t see any ‘Sultanahmet’ on distict names (and if s/he hasn’t been to Istanbul yet, it’s likely that s/he hasn’t ever heard about ‘Sultanahmet’). And I guess we’ll have short explanations next to the district names on the main Istanbul article, so we can mention there that the Sultanahmet that has been looked for is in ‘Old City’/’Historical Peninsula’. We can also have a redirect from Sultanahmet to ‘Old City’/’Historical Peninsula’. (‘Old City’ also sounds better to me too, I just proposed ‘Historical Peninsula’, because it’s the local name, and more inscriptive: geographically a peninsula, and also historically important)

‘Golden Horn’ can be avoided as it’s mostly Eyüp, with only a few sights out of it. But still, ‘Golden Horn’ is more inclusive, so if there is no rule against it, I’d prefer naming that district that way. Otherwise ‘Eyüp’ is just as fine. But I still really can’t think of a better alternative to ‘Bosphorus’.

‘Istanbul/Asia’ would be quite incorrect in my opinion, as that is not Asia really (well, of course it’s Asia, but only a very small part of it), and we already have an Asia article – which includes all the places between Üsküdar and Tokyo! Istanbul/Asia would be like subjugating all of Asia under Istanbul (am I getting too emotional?) I couldn’t figure out what’s the problem with side of ’Asian Side’, or why ‘Asia’ would better convey what is meant than ‘Asian Side’ but maybe that’s because I’m not a native English speaker. But I guess there are also ‘sides’ in English-speaking countries too, like New York’s Lower East Side. Also not to forget the fact that ‘Princes' Islands’ are also in ‘Asia’, but not in ‘Asian Side’ as it’s generally used. (‘Asian Side’ = Mainland Asian Istanbul) --(WT-en) Vidimian 08:33, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

 * Assorted thoughts: One way to get the point across would be to call the district Sultanahmet-Old City—I do agree with Jani that it would be good to have "Sultanahmet" immediately visible in the districts list. Asian Side is fine, although I enjoy the humor of calling that section of town "Asia." And I don't have a problem with either Golden Horn or Bosphorus as names for districts, because if any city should be divided up by bodies of water, it is Istanbul. Plus Golden Horn is easier to remember for native English speakers. I also agree with Vidimian that Taksim shouldn't be separated from Istiklal. And with Jani that Galata is preferable to Beyoglu as a more commonly understood name for visitors to the city. I'll try and remember to make those corrections to the map soon.  --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:08, 9 October 2008 (EDT)

Can listing this way be a solution for the name of ‘Sultanahmet’/’Old City’ in the districts list of the main article:

 * Sultanahmet-Old City (or Sultanahmet and Old City or Sultanahmet and the rest of Old City)

By listing it this way, we will both have ‘Sultanahmet’ immediately visible, and also have a more inclusive name for the area and the article. This may also work for other districts too, for example:

 * Galata, Beyoğlu, Istiklal Street, and Taksim Square.

and about Asia: I also find it tempting to call that area ‘Istanbul/Asia’, but I don’t know, it just sounds quite wrong… By the way, is ‘Istanbul/Asiatic Side’ better than ‘Istanbul/Asian Side’, since ‘Asian’ has some other meanings too, for example would seeing an ‘Asian Side’ imply that the area is some sort of ‘Chinatown’ (or similar) to eyes that are totally foreign to the city?--(WT-en) Vidimian 07:35, 16 October 2008 (EDT)

 * I think Istanbul/Sultanahmet-Old City would work as a district name just fine. For Galata, rather than make the name longer, we could just explain the contents in the district description, like this:

 * Istanbul/Galata — the hub of Istanbul's nightlife and dining scenes, including Beyoğlu, Istiklal Street, and Taksim Square

 * Though I'm sure you can come up with a better description than I just did! I think Istanbul/Asian Side is preferable—"Asiatic" would have the cultural connotations that you seek to avoid, while Asian sounds in this context pretty purely geographical. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:00, 18 October 2008 (EDT)

Okay. So here is the districts list as we have it now:

 * 1) Istanbul/Sultanahmet-Old City
 * 2) Istanbul/Galata
 * 3) Istanbul/Golden Horn
 * 4) Istanbul/New City
 * 5) Istanbul/European Bosphorus
 * 6) Istanbul/Western Suburbs
 * 7) Istanbul/Asian Side
 * 8) Istanbul/Princes' Islands

My only hesitation is about 'European Bosphorus'. Maybe naming that district as 'Bosphorus' and then explaining that it only includes European bank of Bosphorus would be better? Anyway, do we have to wait any longer to districtify the city (since only three people has ever left a comment on the issue), or should we plunge forward immediately? And other than creating a 'districts' section on the main article, and sorting the see/eat/drink/sleep listings into new district articles, is there anything else we should do to reformat this article to a 'huge city' article?--(WT-en) Vidimian 09:20, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

 * I think it's safe to plunge forward now—this looks like a pretty robust districts hierarchy. Maybe it's best to wait a couple days, but I think we've pretty much reached an end to this discussion. And I'm fine with calling the district simply "Bosphorus," since "Asian Side" should make it clear that all of Asian Istanbul is in that article.

 * The one big task in addition to sorting listings into districts will be to fill up the then empty sections of the main article with prose. E.g., the sleep section should have a couple paragraphs discussing which districts are appropriate for different kinds of visitors (sightseers, diners, business travelers, etc.), what types of accommodations are available where, and where to find good deals. The same goes for see, do, eat, and drink. I haven't finished working on the Washington, D.C. article yet, but I think the sections "see," "eat," "drink," and "sleep" are all good examples of how this should be done.

 * Lastly, a districts map would be useful so contributors know where to put listings. Could you leave me a message on my talk page to let me know exactly which changes to make to the map I created earlier. Maps of individual districts would be great too, but I can't help with that since there is no suitable base image for me to work from (that I know of). --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:33, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

I’m taking the “districts discussion” notice off the page and plunging forward. I’ll write as much as I can do on some districts, and leave some others with only an introductory paragraph for now. I’ll also start with sorting sleep listings first.--(WT-en) Vidimian 08:19, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

 * Please note that these district names will confuse locals and travellers alike when talking about istanbul. Galata is in Beyoğlu... not the other way around! —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 78.185.13.206 (talk • contribs) 20:59, 2 November 2010

 * I was also in doubt about this in one of my posts two years ago, but given that we use the most common name and we uphold the needs of travellers foremost, and not the locals', we've come to a consensus to name that district as "Galata", which is the most common name for that part of the city, especially amongst English-speaking travellers. And given that the district article gets contributions from both locals and travellers alike with seemingly no problems, I don't think a name change is necessary. Both the description at Istanbul and the lead of the district article itself make it clear that Beyoğlu is part of that district, anyway. – (WT-en) Vidimian 10:46, 3 November 2010 (EDT)

 * I think the districts needs some updates. Northern parts of the city, the coasts of Black Sea could be considered as another district. There are beaches and national park areas on both sides of istanbul. There's Marmaracik Nature Park on European side, Avcikoru Nature Park on Asian side, and more parks. So adding one or two more districts on the Black Sea coast would be logical or at least a separate section for natural parks. So Şile and Çatalca should be included in the metropolitan guide as there are now more options for transport and more places to see especially for nature enthusiasts. I think the Asian Bank of Bosphorus is another district, as there are a lot of points of interests which could be considered as one single route and they should be separated from the rest of Asian Side. Asian Side is silent and calm but it is unfair to pack it into one page. Especially Kadikoy is a place that both foreigners and locals prefer for leisure and other activities. Shall we start an update marathon for entire Istanbul? --Hocu (talk) 07:50, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

 * Why not, I would say, but the usual convention at Wikivoyage is first to have articles so long and full of information that they need to be divided, and only later to create sub-articles. Istanbul/Black Sea (or Istanbul/North coast or whatever) and Istanbul/Asian bank of Bosphorus both could be new districts but I guess we don't currently have enough content to justify such a subdivision. Maybe you could work on a sandbox to show what, for example, a full scale Istanbul/Black Sea article would look like.
 * I think Çatalca is simply out of the metropolitan area, regardless of what the official designation says. Don't know about Şile as I've never been there, but I would think it is similar to Çatalca in this aspect. Vidimian (talk) 19:15, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Deletion- negative review
Hi. I deleted this review:

As it is such a negative review and the best way not to give the hotel business is not to mention them on wikivoyage. Thanks. --(WT-en) MarinaK 14:13, 10 October 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.

Cope
I'm editing the Istanbul article and was struck by this comment in the Cope section- For mid-range and cheap hotels/restaurants, you may actually have a better time if you avoid places listed in your guide! Trust your nose.

I understand what the writer was trying to explain, but believe this comment is unnecessary and goes against what we are trying to achieve with our reviews. Can we please delete this comment? The intent of the original writer can still be conveyed through the wording before this paragraph. Thanks. --(WT-en) MarinaK 17:43, 10 October 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.

 * Actually, I think this section is dead on—this was my experience exactly. As soon as a place gets favorable reviews in popular tourist guides, particularly LP, the place is suddenly crawling with foreign tourists, touting of the review, jacked up prices, and terrible service. Wikivoyage can hopefully avoid some of this problem by keeping the guides very up to date. That is, if a business owner tries this nonsense, a traveler can log on to Wikivoyage and immediately remove the review. But this is important information—I learned within about a day and a half there to never go to any establishment listed in my heretofore reliable LP guide to Turkey. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:21, 10 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I personally would tend to avoid places reviewed positively by Lonely Planet for these reasons, but wouldn't this be the same in any place? (WT-en) Melbased 21:15, 1 May 2010 (EDT)
 * Presumably in other places too, but those reviews have never been exploited so efficiently and effectively as they are by Istanbul's enterprising business owners! Nowhere else I have been, in any rate. In eastern/northeastern Turkey I found that the business owners featured in LP were delighted and proud about it, and happy to continue providing the same great service to the guests that followed—but that was a lot further off the beaten path. In a place like, say, St Petersburg or Chicago, local buzz will drive traffic much more efficiently than any travel guides. Istanbul's merchants are, I think, rightly famous for knowing how to run a proper hustle. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:44, 1 May 2010 (EDT)
 * Yes Istanbul's merchants sure know how to run proper hustle. Made me long for the comparitively gentle Bangkok. (WT-en) Melbased 00:45, 2 May 2010 (EDT)

Hospitals and Clinics / Medical Info
I was wondering if anyone could add any info about hospitals, clinics, and medical centers for travelers, that are free or low-cost. Something specific: any info out there for STD testing, at a facility that doesn't charge an arm-and-a-leg. Are there any municipal health services that offer free testing and/or treatments? Where should foreigners even search for this information? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 78.181.61.145 (talk • contribs)

There's no free testing or treatment facilities for STDs, and also no anon. testing. Best bet is to go to another country for this (sorry). You can also donate blood and they'll test you for HIV and a few other blood-born STDs. As for medical help, again, there's no free clinics, except for rabies vaccines. However, city hospitals are quite affordable, though the level of service may vary based on hospital; private hospitals will have staff that speaks English, but they are more expensive. Does this section need to be added -- I can if so. 88.247.133.240 07:11, 23 May 2011 (EDT)

Visa
Upon arriving I saw that the visa-stickers for EU-citizens are overstamped and the price is now 15 euro.

Race, Ethnicity and Religion
People living in Istanbul like myself clearly and definitely know that "Istanbul is not famous with having a great tolerance on different cultures, ethnicities and religions." as the contrary stated within the article. I don't believe so.

If you are black, people will stare at you. A nearly racist statement in the article says that "most of the black people who settled in Istanbul have a poor economical background". So, how can people understand what others have in their wallets? Also, is it a good reason "to have a negative attitude towards black people"?

If you have something that identifies your culture, ethnicity, religion or preference on you, people will try to avoid having a conversation/relationship with you. Also, people may consider the abnormal as a sign of disrespect against their ethnicity or religion.

The fact that people will stare at you with smiling faces doesn't at all mean that this is tolerance. Tolerance is entirely something else. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 81.214.36.223 (talk • contribs)

 * I too think that section can be reworked. Please plunge forward and fix it as you see fit. – (WT-en) Vidimian 18:53, 4 April 2010 (EDT)

Patso
Patso consists of only french fries. artiz is the one consists of hotdog and french flies. of course it's not sold as artiz, i saw patsosis, patso sosis and similar ones (sosis=sausage)(WT-en) Ozanbaba 13:32, 17 June 2010 (EDT)

Shoebrush scam
Thanks to someone who posted information about the scam. I was almost tricked into it today near Sirkeci train station, so I modified the entry a little bit. —The preceding comment was added by 85.97.56.217 (talk • contribs)

 * I don't know who wrote that section (it's there for years as far as I can remember), but it's good to hear that Wikivoyage was useful during your trip. – (WT-en) Vidimian 04:08, 3 January 2012 (EST)

 * Found it. That section was started here, in Sept 2008, by User:(WT-en) Taksim (who has been inactive since then, though). – (WT-en) Vidimian 04:16, 3 January 2012 (EST)

Pre-organized tourist packages
Is there a way to include information about places that offer packages? Would it be better to wait until arriving or buy something online? —The preceding comment was added by 209.55.94.154 (talk • contribs)

 * Our policy on when it is appropriate to offer tours/tour packages can be found at Activity listings. AHeneen (talk) 01:55, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Karaconsolos
It literally means "boogeyman" in Turkish. Why would anyone say "boogeyman" to someone harrasing? This word is not an insult and most of the Turkish people does not even know what is means. —The preceding comment was added by 139.179.92.85 (talk • contribs)

 * There was also a short discussion about this earlier today at above. I've removed it from the list in the article, as it is possibly used extremely rarely, if ever. Vidimian (talk) 16:13, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

No warning box?
This seems to be a risky time to visit Istanbul. Here's one of dozens of news stories: Why don't we have a warning box? Pashley (talk) 12:37, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Warning box added. Feel free to expand. --Saqib (talk) 12:52, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

 * Does that need an update? I have not been following events. Pashley (talk) 14:06, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Scams?
I am concerned that Istanbul may be too long & detailed. I think it could be much shorter and link to Common scams and Pickpockets for more detail. Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 14:06, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Sabiha Gökçen Airport
I suggest it to be put on the city map. Only Ataturk Airport is featured. Ibaman (talk) 12:52, 28 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I think that's a good idea, unfortunately I do not know how to change the map to feature the second airport as well. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:59, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Minor change to the district borders
I propose to detach anywhere west of the Unkapanı Bridge that is close enough to the shoreline, i.e. west of Cibali and west of Kasımpaşa, from the Istanbul/Sultanahmet-Old City and Istanbul/Galata districts respectively, and add them to the Istanbul/Golden Horn district. These areas have always been associated with the Golden Horn by the locals, and combined with a trip to elsewhere on the Horn (Eyüp, for example) by the travellers, unlike, say Eminönü or Karaköy which are technically also on the Golden Horn. I'm not really sure why I didn't propose this set up in the first place back in 2008.

If this proposal gets accepted, the districts map will need to be updated to reflect the change, which I'm unfortunately incapable of. Vidimian (talk) 11:47, 22 February 2015 (UTC)

The second district map
Who made that one (presumably it's based on an existing or prior governmental subdivision) what benefit for the traveler does that map have? Should it be kept in the article? Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:58, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

 * Someone intent on overcorrecting our use of the "districts" terminology should have placed it would be my guess, and I'd say it is of little use — not many casual travellers would be aware of which district municipality they are located in and even the locals' perception of the city's areas is quite different from the official designation. For example, when someone says s/he's going to Üsküdar, what s/he means is the immediate area around the large square with lots of mosques on the Bosphorus, not a large slice of the city going up along the Bosphorus or the residential areas around the Çamlıca Hill inland. Vidimian (talk) 19:30, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

 * So we should likely remove the map as not helpful for the traveler Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:37, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

 * My opinion is that the mentioned static map should go. It doesn't benefit the traveler as much as the dynamic ones on the districts' articles. The districts' WV-style static map is enough. Ibaman (talk) 19:46, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

 * I went ahead and removed it. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:18, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Help with a change to Istanbul's map
As User:Ibaman pointed out some time ago, the secondary airport of Istanbul on the Asian side is not displayed on the static city map (and there is no dynamic map). I think this should be remedied, but I don't know who'd be the map-drawing expert to do that. So this is me calling for map drawing experts. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:00, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

 * User:LtPowers? User:Saqib? Those are two great mapmakers I thought of. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:02, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

 * Unless of course there is any reason not to make this change, but I couldn't think of any unless the airport would be outside the scope of the current map. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:06, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Added. On my first visit to Istanbul few years ago, I by mistake came to wrong airport and missed my flight so it is for sure due to highlight that this city got two airports . --Saqib (talk) 18:46, 6 March 2017 (UTC)

Out of date dynamic metro map
First of all many thanks for adding the metro map. Unfortunately, as I can attest from a visit this April, the dynamic map is outdated, lacking among others the line on the Asian side all the way to Pendik. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:51, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

Destination of the month: what's needed?
Istanbul has been proposed as "destination of the month". I suggest that we use this section to collect together any aspects of these pages that particularly merit early attention before it receives that accolade. Couple from me for starters:

"Get in" needs a look-at. My edits earlier today haven't improved matters, apologies and I'll revisit these.

"Go next" has lengthy descriptions. These should reduce to signposting, eg the nearby places do or should feature in "Istanbul Province". Grahamsands (talk) 14:52, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

And another: Istanbul Ataturk Airport closes at the end of October 2018. So there needs to be content for the new airport ready to be pasted in. This can probably only be done mid-Oct as the transport links and passenger facilities become known. Grahamsands (talk) 17:32, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

 * If the airport opens in time, that is, megaprojects have a tendency to get delayed no matter where in the world they are located. Anyway, thanks for starting this thread (though there's no rush because I'm afraid there won't be available space for Istanbul on the Main Page before autumn 2019 anyway). ϒpsilon (talk) 17:49, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

 * Even if you have legitimate points of criticism against Atatürk (and there are!), please spell him with an ü! Anyway, I think the whole Istanbul Airport situation might end up meriting us actually deleting an airport article, but that's for whenever (if ever) that airport does indeed shut down. Any word on the other airport? Will it remain open, or will they go the "single airport" route? Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:41, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

 * w:Istanbul New Airport: "Atatürk Airport will be closed down for scheduled passenger flights once the new airport is operational; and its IATA code IST will be transferred to the new airport." --ϒpsilon (talk) 18:54, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

 * The other airport. Not IST. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:57, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

 * They're apparently building a new runway there, which means that that airport will still be in (some kind of) use. --ϒpsilon (talk) 19:54, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

In "Talk" (but not on main pages) I suggest IST-NEW as temporary shorthand for the new airport and IST-OLD for guess where; the other airport is SAW. My expectation is that this change will happen on time. Major infrastructure completions don't have a happy record, especially in Turkey, but airports have prestigious (and litiginous) users who cannot be messed about as we mere travellers often are. With just over three months to go, VIPs and travel journalists must already have the date in their diary. Airlines already need to warn passengers, who may fly into one and back from another. There are flight paths to adjust and staff to be given notice that their place of employment is re-locating. There are animal pens and currency vaults and medical rooms and bonded liquor stores and fire stations all to be certified as good to go. Victoria's Secret will have already signed leases for the retail concourse: slippage will not be tolerated.

Probably IST-NEW's big publicity drive will only launch end of Sept, to avoid confusing the myriads who are completing their summer holidays via IST-OLD. At that point we can create relevant text on main page: transport links etc. Right now we can't even place a marker, since the access route isn't defined. Grahamsands (talk) 11:48, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Cough BER cough Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:31, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Well said, and you were too polite to mention Abu Dhabi, Bicol, Enugu, Dubai, Islamabad, Kannur . . . Grahamsands (talk) 14:24, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
 * The official opening is still happening on 29 Oct, but until the end of 2018 only Turkish Airlines will fly to IST-NEW, with just five routes - Ankara, Antalya, Izmir, Baku, Ercan. These are extra flights, with all services currently scheduled for IST-OLD continuing unchanged until 30 Dec. So that's probably enough of a fudgey opening to avoid political and commercial-legal recriminations, but it's telling that the main car rental firms have yet to announce locations at the new place. Grahamsands (talk) 10:21, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

There are reports that the two downtown railway stations, Sirkeci and Haydarpaşa, will re-open as mainline stations soon, perhaps as early as Dec 2018. For now I'm putting this in the "too good to be true, believe it when I see it" category, so I haven't posted anything yet on main pages. If indeed they do re-open, it will greatly enhance Istanbul's claims to be DOTM. Grahamsands (talk) 21:48, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Outcome: Istanbul was DOTM in April 2019. This was very good timing, as the new airport opened fully at last, a cross-city rail link opened, and fast trains to Ankara began departing from a point much nearer city centre. If only dotm nominations always had such a positive outcome, we'd all have a very long list. Grahamsands (talk) 12:20, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Wikidata items for dynamic map
To the right is the map with all Wikidata items for the districts of Istanbul. This should simplify the work in case we want to change the district set-up in the future. The tool Wikidata Extractor has been used to create the mapshapes. Missing shapes will show up in the coming days. --Renek78 (talk) 20:55, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Banner image
Would the new banner (from Wiki Loves Monuments) be better than the existing one? --Alexander (talk) 00:00, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Districts vs. Neighborhoods
In the "Districts" table, Beyoğlu and Galata were inverted. I edited to reflect that Beyoğlu is a district while Galata is a neighborhood within Beyoğlu proper. Wikimikey423 (talk) 03:12, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
 * We do not necessarily follow official boundaries and names. I think "Galata" is the better known term. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:40, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Province is same as City
Istanbul City and Istanbul Province became the same entity in 2005, so WV is past due for reflecting that. The city needs to move up a level in the hierarchy.

That's the easy bit, but views please on how the city pages should then re-structure. The simplest approach would be for the rest of the European province to be incorporated into City-Western Suburbs, and the Asian province into City-Asian side, with no new districts created. Currently Çatalca (Thrace) has its own page, but an unusual one where "go next" exceeds other content. Likewise Polonezkoy (Anatolia) has a page that is only an outline. Thus, neither stand up as independent destinations. Grahamsands (talk) 20:54, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Wikivoyage does not have to - and indeed frequently doesn't - follow official boundaries... Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:52, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree. See the rationale at Istanbul Province. Some explanation should probably be added to Istanbul. Oahu is a similar situation, with Honolulu officially extending throughout the island. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:18, 7 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Right enough, it doesn't, the question is whether such a change would enhance the descriptions or be irrelevant. Really I wouldn't have suggested it if the Istanbul Province content was good quality, but it's a bit of a dog's breakfast, and needs rationalising. One straightforward & timely way to do so is to migrate content into the "Greater City" pages. So how about this: suppose I make a start by migrating the Asia-side province content, where there's no candidate for a secondary population hub or obvious internal boundary? Then we stand back and take a view on whether that was helpful, and what to do about Europe-side. Would that work? Grahamsands (talk) 14:21, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * No voices for or against so I went ahead and copied / updated stuff to "Istanbul / Asia-side". I'll leave it a week for reactions, then propose doing likewise for Europe-side. I'll not delete any old material either side until folk say they're okay with the results, so there'll be duplicate content while this is in progress. Grahamsands (talk)
 * Done. Europe-side "Province" content has migrated, mostly to "Western Suburbs", but one large northern chunk went to "Bosphorus" where it should have been all along. Views please on whether this looks about right; if not, what other disposition of content you'd prefer. If folk are okay with the new version, the two further tasks will be i) re-work the dynamic map boundaries, and ii) take down "Province" content - is there an archive protocol for obsolete material, or do we just delete and leave the back-up tapes to do the rest? Grahamsands (talk) 21:01, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
 * No further comment, so "Istanbul" now links directly to Marmara Region, with edits accordingly. However I had problems with the map frame, which seemed to be over-riding the edits, so I suppressed it by brackets - can someone take a look at this? Istanbul Province page hasn't been deleted but floats detached, with a caution box that it's now obsolete. Grahamsands (talk) 21:12, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Two years later: the unfinished business is that not all obsolete pages were cleared and redirected. I'll now tidy those away. Those noticed so far are Istanbul Province, Çatalca and Polonezkoy; other orphans may turn up. Grahamsands (talk) 11:12, 16 December 2020 (UTC) ✅

title: Talk:Istanbul


text:
Talk:Istanbul/Galata

What needs to be added/fixed to make this a good article?

I have removed: " A good rule of thumb is that, after 10PM, do not stray more than one block away towards either direction from Istiklal Street itself." from "Stay safe" because that rule is irrelevant and does not reflect all the peaceful parts of Galata/Beyoğlu that is farer from Istiklal. Actually, you should expect scam relatively close to Istiklal - not far from Istiklal where there are few tourists.

 * I somewhat clarified the issue by adding a comment about Tarlabaşı. —(WT-en) Vidimian 11:17, 29 October 2009 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Istanbul/Galata


text:
Talk:Istanbul/New City

Baklahorani, anyone?
Despite the Turkish authorities' 1943 ban on the Greek Carnival, there's a revival initiative starting from 2010. Facebook page: []; example article Reviving Carnival in Istanbul: []. Who's interested? Vidimian, how about you? --(WT-en) CurvyEthyl 18:17, 21 January 2012 (EST)

 * Not sure if I'd be interested or not (I haven't heard about this before), but please feel free to add about this to the article. There is also a Wikipedia article about this carnival which has a little more detail from the NY Times blog you linked as well as external links to semi-official carnival webpage and other news sources. – (WT-en) Vidimian 19:43, 21 January 2012 (EST)
 * I've seen the Wikipedia article, but you can have a hear at this song. (I'm not sure if it's sung in Greek or Turkish, though.) --(WT-en) CurvyEthyl 19:51, 21 January 2012 (EST)

 * It's Greek before 2:45 and Turkish after that. – (WT-en) Vidimian 20:25, 21 January 2012 (EST)
 * I thought it was in one language. Post lyrics, if optional? --(WT-en) CurvyEthyl 20:57, 21 January 2012 (EST)
 * I'll answer at your talk page in order not to disregard the guidelines for using talk pages. – (WT-en) Vidimian 21:25, 21 January 2012 (EST)

title: Talk:Istanbul/New City


text:
Talk:Istanbul/Sultanahmet-Old City

Push for guide status
This article is near guide status—it just needs a few buy listings & specific listings for internet cafe. If Istanbul/New City was filled out a bit more, I'd recommend nominating the whole city for a dotm! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:02, 11 January 2010 (EST)

 * Replacing the listings at Istanbul with prose about general shopping scene of the city (such as "Ottoman bazaars are here while modern shopping malls are there") after moving most of the listings to this district page (as most are located here) is something I have been planning to do for more than a year but I still can't get my hands on it. And I'll see what I can do about the internet cafes by searching for a few through the web, or better, checking them myself the next time I get to Istanbul.

 * It'd be super-cool to have Istanbul as a dotm sometime in 2010 as it's one of the European Capitals of Culture this year and will get a little more attention than what she usually gets.—(WT-en) Vidimian 20:00, 11 January 2010 (EST)

 * Might I suggest a decent city map before the article status is upgraded? Visual descriptions are great, but in a city of this size, importance, and popularity, it seems like a map would be very useful. (WT-en) TythosEternal 20:21, 23 May 2010 (EDT)

 * Of course having a map would be great, although it is not amongst the criteria for a district article to be at "guide" status, as can be seen here. If interested in creating Wikivoyage-style maps, may I suggest you to have a look at this and this pages? – (WT-en) Vidimian 20:47, 23 May 2010 (EDT)

 * I'll happily draw up a map for this article, once you feel the collection of listings is basically complete. It is indeed at guide status already, though. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 07:00, 24 May 2010 (EDT)

 * Wow, that would be awesome. There are a few more "see" listings that I would really like to add, but they are all under restoration and are closed to public in one way or another. Best to leave them out until you can easily get in without a permission. I can't really comment on "eat" or "sleep" listings though, because there should be hundreds or perhaps thousands more unlisted here, but the listed ones should be enough for most, if not all, travellers to the city I guess. And once a map is complete, I guess it would be not very hard to add the icon for occasionally added listing, I think, even me, who quit trying after a few attempts at Inkscape, can do that. And I would be more than happy to help locate the listings during the drawing process of the map. And by the way, what would you think about creating two maps for this district, one for overall with listings in the "outer" parts of the district, and the other zoomed in around the Sultanahmet Square, where most of listings, "see", "eat", "sleep", or no matter what else, are located? That would ease the saturation on that part of the map as well as help readibility. – (WT-en) Vidimian 08:43, 24 May 2010 (EDT)

 * I suspect that a zoomed map for Sultanahmet Square will be necessary. Since you are happy to update the listings icons when necessary, I'll go ahead and add this to my queue of "weekend projects" ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:15, 24 May 2010 (EDT)

[unindent] This article is beautifully illustrated with photos and has nice listings. What I think it needs now for Guide status is a nice banner and a map. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:21, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Istanbul/Sultanahmet-Old City


text:
Talk:Istanbul to New Delhi overland

Great start! One question about the title though-- why "south-asia" and not "India" just cause you have Delhi as the final stop right now?

(WT-en) Maj, you gotta start signing your posts. Anyways, I wanted to point out that there's an itinerary article template, which might be of use here. --(WT-en) Evan 12:25, 19 Jan 2004 (EST) (<- LIKE THIS B-)

Article title
First off, I'd like to say that I'm very pleased with this article. It's been a lot of work and it shows.

One little nit, though -- the article says, right at the beginning, This intinerary describes the overland route from Istanbul, Turkey, to New Delhi, India. Maybe Istanbul to New Delhi over land would be a better article title? --(WT-en) Evan 04:02, 21 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * I agree with this one because it's more precise and to the point. It'll also be clearer to link it to connecting routes such as London to Istanbul overland and New Delhi to Kathmandu overland. BTW, shouldn't that be 'overland' instead of 'over land'? (WT-en) DhDh 12:25, 21 Jan 2004 (EST)

"Overland" is an adjective. "Over land" is a prepositional phrase acting as an adverb. So I think the space is correct. I'm not comfy with what "overland" means anyways... I like "by bus", "by rail", "by foot". But I grok that that's not always possible. --(WT-en) Evan 12:47, 21 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * Ok to rename the article. But is it overland or over land? (WT-en) Yann 17:05, 21 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * Even if to travel over land gets less results than to travel overland on Google, Evan is probably right in saying that "over land" is the correct one to use here. (WT-en) DhDh 17:58, 21 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * Then choose one or the other, and make a link. On English spelling and grammar, I will follow your opinion. (WT-en) Yann 04:36, 22 Jan 2004 (EST) Ok then, it is moved. (WT-en) Yann 04:58, 22 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * I'd say "overland" without the space is obviously correct. See Talk:Overland from Singapore to Shanghai (WT-en) Pashley 00:01, 4 May 2006 (EDT)

What is the ONG? NGO (non-government organization)? What are red news? -(WT-en) phma 08:27, 22 Jan 2004 (EST)
 * Oups, I thought this was used in English. What is the proper English term? (WT-en) Yann 10:56, 22 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * Proper English term for what? That's the question. --(WT-en) Evan 11:30, 22 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * Is red news anything like yellow journalism? ;-) -(WT-en) phma 22:53, 22 Jan 2004 (EST)

Times and lines
It'd be nice to give some rough times between waypoints on this itinerary. Also, it'd be great to move information about alternative routes and side-trips closer in the itinerary to where you'd actually take them. Lastly, I think we should avoid the temptation to put destination-guide information (including external links) into itineraries just because there's not a destination guide for the particular destination being mentioned.

This itinerary is really chugging along, by the way. --(WT-en) Evan 11:35, 22 Jan 2004 (EST)

Europe to India by Road Expedition?
Moved from travellers' pub by (WT-en) Evan

Hi,

What about starting a Europe to India by Road Expedition? Or maybe there is a better name? There is specific information for people willing to make this wonderful and mythic trip which are of no interest to people who just want to visit one country. (WT-en) Yann 09:39, 19 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * I'm not sure that'd actually be an expedition. Expeditions are more like WikiPedia:Wikipedia:WikiProjects. But I'd agree that this would be an excellent itinerary. (Making mental note -- we need a Project:Itineraries page). --(WT-en) Evan 10:45, 19 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * I agree it would be a great itinerary. I'd like to do a Europe to South Africa one as well-- maybe we can combine the first part (Overland Europe to the Middle East or Overland Europe to the Edge of Asia?). Just want to make sure to avoid making lists for lists sake and have some useful content too... (WT-en) Majnoona

 * I am not sure which route you are going from Europe to South-Africa. But OK. I will start the Overland Europe to South-Asia. (WT-en) Yann 11:36, 19 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * Overland Europe to South-Asia is still a redirect. However, there are many ways to go from Europa to South-Asia. A bit less straightforward is probably Overland Moscow to New-Delhi, which I am interested in myself. (WT-en) Guaka 11:05, 29 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * Very interesting. Then suppress the redirect and make a list of all ways to go from Europe to South-Asia overland in this page. (WT-en) Yann 16:34, 29 Jan 2004 (EST)

First person articles for mining
At Talk:Istanbul to New Delhi over land/Part 1 and Talk:Istanbul to New Delhi over land/Part 2, these were in totally other articles but the comment indicated they were going to be mined for this. -- (WT-en) Hypatia 15:15, 9 Nov 2004 (EST)

Merge
This should be merged with Six months overland from Istanbul to Indonesia. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:14, 7 Feb 2005 (EST)
 * Done. Yann (talk) 06:51, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Visa Fees
I updated the fees for visas to Iran, India, and Pakistan.

Trans-Asia Express and information needed for Zahedan-Quetta gap
There are trains (Vangölü Ekspresi/Lake Van Express) three times a week from Istanbul’s main Asian station (Haydarpaşa) to Tatvan, on the west coast of Lake Van, where you can find a ferry across the lake to Van city (on the east shore). From there on you can catch the train for Tabriz. There is also a once-weekly train service from Istanbul (Haydarpaşa) to Teheran (Trans-Asia Express). Trans-Asia is actually two different trains, in Haydarpaşa you board a Turkish train (on every wednesday at 22:00), ride it all along the northwest-southeast axis of Turkish soil until Tatvan, there you take the ferry and cross to Van and at Van station you get into the Iranian train (although you are in fact still in Turkey; you cross the border while you are inside this train) and ride it until Teheran. These trains cross the border on a more southern location than Doğubeyazıt, so you don’t have a chance to see Mount Ararat (but of course, there are many beautiful mountains along the route). Do you think this alternative should be attached to the Turkish leg of the route or is it definitely not a part of the “over land” concept?

I also would like to have some information about stocking supplies for the desert gap between Zahedan and Quetta. For example is it possible to buy water in 5-litre PET bottles, biscuits, chocolate bars and canned food in Zahedan easily and cheaply? Or should they be taken from some other, bigger place, for example Kerman? Are there any restrictions on what can be brought into Pakistan? Some countries have restrictions on bringing any or over some amount of processed or unprocessed food into. If it is this case with Pakistan, then are there any good establishment to buy these kinds of stocks after you have passed the border into Pakistan? If there is, is it “tourist price”? Can someone with the knowledge please add some about these into the article? 81.212.250.3 15:14, 28 May 2007 (EDT)

 * I've added Trans-Asia Express info, but I'm afraid I can't help you with the other stuff. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:57, 28 May 2007 (EDT)

All afghan men carry automatic weapons?
Does the sort of statement relating to afghan men and weapons really belong here? All is a strong word, never mind the emphasis. /marcus
 * Yes, if true, that statement belongs here. Looking at the history, I see that it has been added by (WT-en) Pashley who is a well-travelled user with experience in Afghanistan, so there is no reason to doubt it. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 23:17, 4 October 2007 (EDT)

 * When I was there, mid-70s in peacetime before the Russian invasion, most men in the countryside (including shepherds who looked about ten years old) went armed. Quite a few in the cities too. Now, I don't know. Pashley (talk) 07:43, 25 September 2012 (CEST)
 * This article boldly claims "Today nearly every Afghan man has an automatic weapon." But I cannot see the same at Wikipedia article. --Saqib (talk) 22:11, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Merge?
This has been tagged for merging to Asia, which I think is a mistake. It should be merged into Europe to South Asia over land, (with the name changed to the correct one-word "overland", but that's another discussion) but we do need an itinerary covering this route. Pashley (talk) 07:51, 25 September 2012 (CEST)

 * I agree that merging with Asia would be a mistake. Merging with Europe to South Asia over land would make sense, but then this article would be huge. I would rather keep small specialized articles than big articles which intend to over everything. ;o) Yann (talk) 14:04, 18 October 2012 (CEST)

 * I'd merge it with Europe to South Asia over land, and also include Silk road. If there are other articles covering crossing Eurasia in one form or another they could be merged too. They are not very long and are all covering similar topics. If the Trans Siberian article would be just a stub/outline (which fortunately isn't true), I'd include that one as well. I don't support moving the information into the Asia article. Ypsilon (talk) 14:15, 18 October 2012 (CEST)

 * New policy has it that pretty much all itineraries should go, unless they cover a set path like Route 66. See Wikivoyage talk:Itineraries. --Globe-trotter (talk) 17:12, 18 October 2012 (CEST)

 * I don't see any policy, just your personal opinion. That's a bad start. Yann (talk) 18:10, 18 October 2012 (CEST)

 * Uhm? Policy is stated on Itineraries. I was referring to the discussion that took place, which obviously contains opinions. Be free to contribute to it.--Globe-trotter (talk) 18:11, 18 October 2012 (CEST)

 * Anyway, the "Hippy Trail" of the 60s/70s which this itinerary describes was more-or-less a set path, and fairly well-known. Pashley (talk) 01:59, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Hippie trail
I was wondering why not rename the itinerary to "Hippie trail" and expand the scoope of the itinerary to incorporate the route of original Hippie trail, starting Britain. --Saqib (talk) 18:49, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Hippie Trail exists as a redirect; isn't that all we need?

 * I do not think it started in Britain; certainly it did for some and in the 70s there were a few old red London buses as far East as Katmandu. But lots of Europeans started from other places and you had people like me who flew Montreal-Amsterdam to start the route or the Japanese I met who flew to Rome with a lot of high-end bicycle parts in a suitcase, bought an Italian frame, built the bike, and headed East.

 * Istanbul is logical for one end; there were many starting points & routes in Europe, and some people went into North Africa as well, but more-or-less everyone passed through Istanbul. Delhi is logical for the other; more-or-less everyone went there, though after that they might head for Goa, Katmandu, Srinagar, Rishikesh, ... Pashley (talk) 21:47, 7 March 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Istanbul to New Delhi overland


text:
Talk:Istanbul to New Delhi overland/Part 1

This has to be integrated with Istanbul to New Delhi over land. (WT-en) Yann 12:03, 7 Jul 2004 (EDT)

first person content
Description of a trip from Turkey to Indonesia, added with my comments and estimated time necessary. Remark: times indicated are rough estimates, subjective and do not take into account time traveled between places. This information and pictures and stuff can be found on my website
 * More to find on my personal website

Part 1
information based on a trip in 2002 and 2003

this part includes the Turkey, Iran and the south asian countries

go to the second part for the remainder (Myanmar to Idonesia)

Istanbul
I consider this to be a very beautiful city. With its bleu mosque and the Aya Sophia as highlights. Of course, the city suffers from being not the most safe place for tourists, not everyone is nice out there and it can get pretty hectic. 2 days

Canakkale
The town is not the worst you have seen, but still. Also the ruins that make up the main attraction of this town are not that spectacular. 0 days

Celçuk (Ephesus)
For all you history lovers, although overcrowded, this site is quite interesting I can imagine. The town can serve as a basis to go to nearby beach, other historical sites and even Pamukkale, all discussed here-under. 1 day

Guzelcamli
Well, this is the gate to the nearby national park that serves for all you beach lovers. The water is fairly clean and there is some small fish and coral reef. But do not expect the most magnificent lagoon. 1 day

Karakasu (Aphrodisias)
The town is a weird non touristy place. The site built in honor of the goddess of love is rather nice. I enjoyed my visit there. It is almost empty and you can still see somewhat interesting ruins. 1 day

Pamukkale
This remarkable natural phenomenon is quite interesting and even beautiful. Except, at close look it is in general not at all that spectacular and even quite polluted due to the many of us tourists. If you are not that far out, you could consider a visit. 1 day

Antalya (and around)
This is a boring city to my opinion, nothing to do and no atmosphere. Also the waterfalls nearby are a joke. The only thing worthwhile as far as I can remember is the site Thermessos, and Aspendos where we saw 'La Traviata'. And even these sites where not the most spectacular. 0 days

Olimpos
This was a tourist hang-out for doing nothing. You can do the one-afternoon-walking-the-area though and have a swim in this not to polluted sea water. I hear that the nearby ruins are cool though. 0 days

Manavgat
Do not come here, there is nothing to do and the nearby waterfall is again a joke. Furthermore it was expensive and boring. 0 days

Cappadocia
Brilliant and relaxed scenery. Goreme being a true travellers place to explore. There are several things to do in the surrounding areas making sure you hang out there for several days. Maybe you could even stay in one of the caves. 3 days

Malatya (Mount Nimrod)
In Malatya I was only briefly but the people treated me nice. This was my first contact with so many Kurds. I used this town as the base to visit Mount Nimrod, my number one site in Turkey. This place shows some historic artifacts and even more so, a breath-takening view on the surrounding valleys that embed the Euphrates. 2 days

Urfa (Sanliurfa)
Coming from the west, this is definitely the middle east. The streets give you an idea of the surrounding region with its Iranians, Syrians, Iraqis, and other arabics. Besides that, the city is nothing special, just a city. But you go there to further visit Haran, a nice days to see one of the oldest continuously inhabited spots on earth with their beehive houses. 1 day

Dyarbakir
This pleasant town gives nothing more than just that. There is not really much of interest there, but to hang around. 0 days

Mardin
Although beautifully located and nicely built on the slope of a rock, there is again nothing of real interest to find, except just that. But if you are near, it is just a lovely place. 0 days

Dogubayazit
The border town, and a fairly enjoyable it can be. There is actually something to do around there and if you really want you can stay there for some time. I enjoyed my one day visit. 1 day

Van
Some people and guidebooks recommend also Van, but I did not go there. 0 days

Tabriz
As I entered Iran from Turkey in the north-west, this town was the first to visit. I would not recommend this town at all as there is not much more to do or see than the market area. The town in itself is a quit modern and dull place to hang out, but the people treat you nice despite the cities size. 0 days

Masule
I did not go there, but talking to others it sounds as if it should be worth visiting. There seem to be beautiful mountain villages near the Caspian Sea. It seems interesting to go out there even if it was just for the setting. 0 days

Tehran
Tehran: the capital. Not the worlds' most beautiful of capitals to say the least, overcrowded, chaotic, difficult to get around and to the main sites. Except for some museums and another bazaar, there seems to be not much to do. If you get stuck there for some reason, once you get around a bit more easy, the metro offers possibly good value for that, then the city may get more interesting. 0 days

Esfahan
Esfahan is plain beautiful and triggers a nice feel because of the fairly relaxed atmosphere. You can visit the bazaar, mosques, gardens, ... and meet people, loads of people. Unfortunately for the prices of the sites. It is hard to suggest whether it is worth going to the Emam Mosque if it costs you another four dollar or so... that is up to you. The teahouses were kind of nice. 2 days

Yazd
In Yazd you can get a glimpse of the earlier settlements many years ago, the style of mud-brick cities and buildings... So I enjoyed the short stay here in this desert town. If you are in the neighborhood, be sure to drop by for a day. 1 day

Shiraz (Persepolis)
Shiraz I really thought was uninteresting. Although it is described by lonely planet as being a relaxed, cultivated city, with wide tree-lined avenues and enough monuments, gardens and mosques to keep most visitors happy for several days, I found it dull and un-inspiring. Of course, visiting all the tourist attractions would keep you busy somewhat but this is not for real budget traveler as there is a high price for every garden, museum, mausoleum, and so on that you will visit. The one good thing is that it is the city you can use as a basis to go to persepolis. This is defenitely a very interesting day out for history lovers. The Throne of Jamshid built in 512 BC are interesting ruins to have a walk around in. And although I am not the worlds most history minded person I kind of recommend it, unfortunate of the almost 8 US entrance fee. 1 day

Kerman
This town did not offer much, so my very short transit in this town was more then enough. But if nothing else to do, just go and sit in some tea house, or maybe go to the cinema. I went to Sirch, a very small town a little bit east of Kerman and went there to the hot springs, a great side trip it proved to be but not because of the hot spring nor the town itself though. 0 days

Bam (unfortunatly destroyed 26/12/2003)
The ruins of the ancient city were beautiful, very nice as well as interesting to explore and although the new town was kind of dull it was still not a bad place to hang out briefly. 0 days

Zahedan
A get-out-this-border-town-as-soon-as-possible place. Nothing of any interest, unless you still have to arrange for a visa for Pakistan. 0 days (pass through)

Taftan
As you enter from Iran in the south-west of Pakistan, this is the ugly border town that serves as a shocking introduction to the country. The desert town, surrounded by junk and slums is not some place to explore. 0 days (pass through)

Quetta
Well, this city was a very nice 'just-a-city', bordering Afghanistan causing some amalgam set of people on the street and markets. I liked to just walk the streets for the two days I spent there. I do not think that there is much to do though. 1 day

Multan
I did not visit Multan and its surroundings but I heard several good comments by other travelers, suggesting that it may well be worth the visit if you are into nice town and interesting ruins. 1 day

Lahore
This diverse city is on the edge with India and is therefore probably the most visited city in Pakistan. The attractions are definitely worth a look with its nice market streets and beautiful fort. There is also an interesting dance every Thursday, performed by the Sufis if I am correct, try to go there, for many travelers this proves to be a highlight of their visit. 2 days

Peshawar
Your door to Afghanistan through the beautiful Kyberpass, but in itself also a nice city to have a walk through. Like Quetta, an interesting mix of people and a vivid market place to explore. 1 day

Gilgit
I do not recommend going to this town because there is really not much to do out here. You can walk around in this very bland town, maybe, or take a small walk in the surrounding hills. But I recommend to travel onward to the north as soon as you get here. 0 days

Karimabad (Ultar)
This beautiful valley is sure to keep you there for some days. The scenery is beautiful and it is a nice day out to walk up to the base-camp of the Ultar mountain. There are nicer base-camps to walk up though but the atmosphere around this town is nice enough to not want to leave it too soon. 2 days

Minapin (Rakaposhi)
This tiny town is of no interest and offers only one guesthouse that is surprisingly good. The only reason to be here is the hike up to base-camp of the Rakaposhi mountain, and that is brilliant. It is a four to five hour hike up there, and you can sleep at basecamp, at least I could as there are virtually no tourists so they do not bother going up there to ask an entrance fee. 1 day

Rawalpindi/Islamabad
The squared administrative capital and its dirty, polluted and overcrowded twin-city where the people actually live are both quite interesting. There is not much to do there though so the time I spent there was little. 1 day

Amritsar
This is the home of the golden Sikhs Temple. If possible, be sure not to miss it as the atmosphere is strangely relaxing and just being there is rewarding as it is. There you can sleep near the temple, for a donation. You can get free meals during the day if you want, and just sit there and watch the people... 1 day

Delhi
There are worse cities I am sure. The embassy and palace area is nicely constructed and also other areas in Delhi are surprisingly beautiful but for me there is not that much there to keep me there. And the people treat you like shit, all the time being lied to. So I reckon a few-days visit would be worth it. 2 days

Pushkar
A holy city, very relaxed as there is nothing to do except drinking bang or other lassies or sitting and watch life go by at the gats. Also here the people kind of see you as the big stupid tourist that one should rip off. 1 day

Jodpur
To get some idea of the Indian cities this may be a nice choice. There is a beautiful fort to visit and the streets offer some nice people to talk to and also a market you can hang out for some time. But in itself there is not really an attraction besides the fort and one day was enough for me. 1 day

Jaisailmer (cameltrek)
The city is not so very spectacular, except if you are really into forts, but I am not. The people treat you really bad, with lies all the time... but you are there for doing a camel trek. And this is kind of nice. I enjoyed being in the desert on the back of a camel, although not extremely interesting it did offer me something to do that I would remember for a long time. 3 days

Agra (Taj Mahal)
Agra is where you find the Taj Mahal. This is as far as I know the monument that is representing India. The extreme high entrance fee makes it a tough choice whether or not to go in. I did go in and I thought the Taj Mahal was very beautiful. But on the other hand, for the entrance fee I can live over three days in India. The massive red sandstone Agra Fort was easy to skip as again it would mean paying a high entrance fee. 1 day

Varanasi
For over 2000 years this is the religious capital of India. This is the place known for the river 'Ganges', surrounded by the many gats where people come to pray and do all the other religious things. The atmosphere, although very rough, can be really enjoyable. Once I found a way to mentally deal with all the lies and annoying people I loved walking around, doing nothing really. Everywhere things happen that require you to stand still and observe, even to get amazed... You see people getting cremated, ceremonies of different kinds, and a vivid market... It is hard to miss out on this city if you are in India. 2 days

Darjeeling
Beautifully located but surprisingly polluted by exhaustion fumes, this city offers the nice and relaxed Nepalese atmosphere. The high altitude treks in the vicinity are rewarding and easy to do. The mountain town itself furthermore offers Buddhist monasteries and tea plantations around. Darjeeling also has the unique attraction of the famous miniature train that connects this town with the lower cities in the valley. 1 day + trek (see Nepal)

Calcutta
I just loved Calcutta because although this is a big city it still treats you quite good. People do not lie to you nearly as much as between Rajastan and Varanasi. Still, everything you need is all there and the people are in average quite friendly. 2 days

Puri
Well, there is nothing really close-by Calcutta, except some mildly interesting beaches in the Orissa region a bit more south. Nothing to do there, maybe swim but the water is rough. And there are not so many tourists as you might think though, and as usual, the few 'temple' attractions are costly. 0 days

Kerala
This is a region that I wanted to do but did not because of time shortage. Unfortunate though because it was recommended by many and said to be the Indian area most resembling South East Asia that I love so much. There should be a network of lagoons, lakes, rivers and canals wherein you could do an interesting boat trip, observing the local life. ? 1 week

Sunauli
This is a relaxed but very small border-town. There are worse places to get stuck but try not to anyway. 0 days (pass through)

Pokhara
This is an ugly touristy town in my opinion. Especially now that there are no tourists, it is annoyingly empty. It serves as the base for going trekking around the Anapurna and the like. I can imagine that coming home from such a trek, mostly between 4 days and 21 days, it can be a fun town to hang out in with all sorts of food and bars... There are some Tibetan settlements that I did not visit. Instead I did a day walk to Sarangkot and that was ok. There are apparently also some limestone caves at Mahendra Gufa or Rupa and Begnas Tals lakes, maybe they are worth it?? 0 days

Chitwan National Park
This area in the Terai offers jungle and wild life. Although a bit expensive, sitting on the back of an elephant can bring you quite close to the rhinos around, and offer you a different perspective on the vastness of the jungle. I liked it, also the jungle walk we did the day after. We got to see some sorts of crocodiles, a bear, and some series of birds and insects. If you are lucky, there are also tigers and rhinos to run into. 2 days

Katmandu
Here in Katmandu you can find it all, the old temples and the new modern possibilities, food from all over and whatever you want to make your trip more easy. It is one of the most beautiful cities to wander around in, both during the day as later in the evening. Nearby Patan is maybe hardly to be called another city in the Katmandu valley. It is just across the Bagmati River and is much quieter than Katmandu. The atmosphere is again very nice, only unfortunate for the high entrance fee for the Royal Palace, unlike the entrance fee for the city center not possible to escape from. The third city in the Katmandu valley and again highly priced when entering using the main roads. Just take a small road in to avoid paying the 10 $ because it is probably not worth that much money to a budget traveler. Bhaktapur is said to be the least modern of the three with very nice architecture going back to the 17th century The Buddhist temple of Swayambhunath known as the 'monkey temple' offers a nice view on the surrounding Katmandu valley. The entrance fee is avoidable, otherwise skip it. Pashupatinath, the Hindu temple dedicated to Shiva on the banks of the holy Bagmati river was very interesting hanging out for a few hours. The entrance fee is again easily avoided, otherwise just have a look from up above the hills if you are on a tight budget. You can see cremations there, monkeys and cows running down the stairs. Then there is the huge stupa of Bodhnath, the largest in the country. If you have no time to actually go out and explore the Himalayas, go to Nagarkot to see the mountain range when sun rises early in the morning. 4 days

eastern border with India
I did a 3 day trek from Darjeeling. During the trek you are walking in and out of Nepal as the border is basically on the ridge of the mountain. I slept in a few of the small villages, the first day in Nepal, the second in India. And because the atmosphere is definitely not Indian but Nepali, I experienced this trek as well as my stay in Darjeeling to a large extent to be Nepal rather then India. 4 days

Dhaka
This was a very interesting city. Being a very poor, dirty and overcrowded city, it still felt quite relaxed and friendly. I loved walking around there doing nothing more because there is nothing more. Or you could take an old English double deck bus, or one of the seemingly millions of rickshaws. 2 days

Chittagong
I was only here briefly. It showed that people were again friendly and the market place was nice and vivid, even a little later in the evening. 0 days

Rangamati, Chittagong Hill Tracts
I was also here only shortly. Police wanted to see the permit that the tourist information office claimed to be not necessary. And to do anything and I mean this almost literally, with an armed police escort I did not fancy, therefore, get out as soon as possible. But people there treated me again very nice and I had some interesting time up there in Rangamati. 0 days

Mongla
Very near to the Sundarbans National Park, this place can be used to do some canoeing in the area. The town is small and there is not really much to do there but to hang around. 0 days

Sundarbans national park
I went to Mongla but I suggest you go to the National Park, organized from Khulna. Anyways, although considered my main goal in Bangladesh, I missed out on this because of some visa problems. I would have loved the experience of seeing a tiger in the wild, or canoeing in the mangrove, ... but yeah well, you can not win them all. 1 day

Somapuri Vihara
Again, unfortunately missed out on. I hear it is very nice. Surprisingly the woman in the tourist information office did not even know this Buddhist Temple???? 1 day