text:
Talk:Colorado

First person anecdote
I'm not sure whether this was intended to be a kind of joke or whether it was meant serious, but here's a first person anecdote I removed from the main article in case it's useful for mining -- (WT-en) Hypatia 21:42, 29 Nov 2004 (EST)

 * Colorado is a state in the US, and I once lived there when I was in elementary school. Colorado is famous for the Rocky Mountains. The scenery is really beautiful, especially in the winter since the moutains are covered with a lot of snow.  The weather is very dry, and really cold in the winter that it is not rare to snow in September or October.  There is a national park called Rocky Moutain National Park.  I have been there many times, and what I saw there were many kinds of wild animals such as rams, elks, chipmunks,beavers, and so on.  You are able to get near to the wild animals because they are basically calm and peaceful.  It was fun to get very close to them and take pictures.  We can rarely experience something like this in Japan since we don't live in the countryside.

Article needing attention
There was a note about Colorado on Project:Articles needing attention reading:
 * Colorado -- needs some massaging for the region article template, and the East Slope/West Slope should probably be their own regions.

I've done this and hence removed the article from the list. Which isn't to say it's complete. -- (WT-en) Hypatia 21:53, 29 Nov 2004 (EST)

Ski Resorts?
Do the Ski Resorts really need their own articles? My opinion is that if it is near a town, then it should be part of that article. It may deserve it's own article if it is similar to a town, ie has multiple places to sleep.

-- (WT-en) Ilkirk 13:00, 11 Oct 2005 (EDT)

 * Most of the major ski areas do indeed have "multiple places to sleep." When doing similar articles for New Mexico, I've adopted the basic rule: if the nearby town or other attraction overshadows the ski area, then describe the ski area with the town; if not, give the area its own link. The former is usually the case in New Mexico (with one exception that's coming later), but the latter is often the case in Colorado. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 10:06, 13 Oct 2005 (EDT)

 * Bill's explanation makes good sense to me. Actually this comes up in Switzerland.  There's a ski area above Montreux which really is just an attraction, but most of them are ski resorts which are destinations in their own right, and almost always coterminous with the name of a nearby village (like say Verbier.  There's also a sort of extreme example, the Eiger/Jungefrau ski region, where you can stay at Kline Schidegg or a number of villages (like Grindelwald) or a small city, Interlaken. -- (WT-en) Mark 10:19, 13 Oct 2005 (EDT)

 * Just a note, I've added an Alpine Skiing article in an attempt to consolidate a lot of the skiing information on this site. The general definition for listing a "major ski resort" was if a person would be willing to travel there just to ski as it seems to be a good enough one... if anyone would like to discuss the topic further we can take it up on that article's Talk page. (WT-en) Andromeda321 00:22, 26 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Fourteeners
I updated the Fourteener count in a couple of places (the "official" USGS pronouncement that Ellingwood Peak qualifies as a separate Fourteener means that there are now 54 of them), and now am wondering what the best way of expanding the info on them is. They're popular attractions in Colorado and probably should be mentioned somewhere, somehow, in a systematized way, but there are better sources for climbing information. Thoughts? -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 22:27, 15 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Regions
The current region list for Colorado is just Eastern Slope (Colorado) and Western Slope (Colorado), which I think means east of the continental divide and west of the continental divide. Two regions is a bit slim, so what about adopting the list used by the Colorado Department of Tourism? Then we would have:

 * Northwest
 * Southwest
 * South Central
 * Front Range
 * Denver Area
 * Northeast
 * Southeast

Denver could perhaps be lumped into the Front Range, as Wikivoyage doesn't normally make exceptions for single cities. Thoughts? -- (WT-en) Ryan 11:56, 15 Dec 2005 (EST)

 * First, we often do have "metro areas" as regions. Second, here are a couple more data points.

 * The Open Directory has the following Colorado Regions:

 * Central Mountains
 * Front Range
 * Northeast Colorado
 * San Luis Valley
 * Southeast Colorado
 * Western Slope

 * This site has:

 * Northwest
 * Southwest
 * Front Range
 * South Central
 * Eastern Plains

 * I really like "real" names; names that people use for regions, so here'd be my recommended regions:

 * Eastern Plains
 * Northeast Colorado
 * Southeast Colorado
 * Metro Denver
 * Front Range
 * San Luis Valley (6-county area)
 * Western Slope
 * Northwest Colorado
 * Southwest Colorado

 * I'm not 100% sure that the South Central and San Luis Valley areas are coterminous, though. --(WT-en) Evan 15:26, 1 Jan 2006 (EST)
 * I would favor leaving Denver Area as a region. There is precedent for this, e.g. in Arizona with Greater Phoenix, a region of the state that would be hard to describe any other way (as I'm finding as I try to write some stuff for that state).

 * A problem with this scheme will be that there's a lot of stuff that spills over from one mountainous area to another, while the Front Range region only captures a minor part of that stuff. There's much more to the Colorado mountains than the Front Range.  "Rocky Mountains (Colorado)" instead of Front Range, maybe?  That opens the door for some sub-sub-regions that will be more descriptive, and probably also makes South Central unnecessary as a top-level region.  -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 15:19, 1 Jan 2006 (EST)

Hmmm -- things are getting messy with two people writing at once, but a good proposal is emerging. Suggest replacing Evan's "Front Range" with "Rocky Mountains (Colorado)" and "San Luis Valley" with "South Central Colorado". It occurred to me after my earlier post that something really needs to be in there to reflect the myriad attractions of the San Juan Mountains, which aren't Rocky Mountains, aren't rigorously Southwest Colorado, and (being mountains) certainly aren't San Luis Valley. This tweak allows the San Juan Mountains and San Luis Valley (which is really a pretty empty place apart from Great Sand Dunes National Park and Preserve) to be bundled together. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 15:49, 1 Jan 2006 (EST)

Colorado is beginning to get populated with articles, so it's past time to resolve this. The current regions aren't satisfactory; there are only three of them, which isn't enough to cover the diversity of a fairly large state, and they don't map very well to the attractions. Acknowledging that there is no fully satisfactory way of breaking them up, I recommend we go with Ryan's original list, which is at least unambiguous and comprehensible. I'll do this shortly, unless a contrary movement emerges. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 16:59, 28 May 2006 (EDT)

 * I don't know enough about Colorado in particular to comment on this whole set of regions, but I do want to support the notion of "(major city) Area", "Greater (major city)", or something of that sort as a valid region in a state. Minnesota has the Twin Cities area (a region defined by the state tourism authority); Illinois has Chicagoland; Massachusetts has Greater Boston; etc.  Given the nature of urban sprawl, suburbs are often functionally part of the cities they encircle, which has more bearing on their identity than what quadrant of the state they happen to be in. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 18:39, 28 May 2006 (EDT)

Other Destinations
I think the Other destinations section in Colorado needs reorganzing along the lines of Utah's Other destinations. I understand that this section is normally limited to nine listings, but I see a natural three-part split: The ski resorts, the national parks and monuments, and the state parks/most popular national forests (i.e. Maroon Bells). I think the ski resorts have been handled in the Skiing in Colorado travel topic, so Aspen, Breckenridge and Vail are taking up valuable real estate, or should be handled in other sections like "See" or "Do" if they merit such attention. But at the moment, many of state's most popular parks and forests are receiving short shrift. I need some input from the community before I plunge ahead. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 13:44, 15 January 2009 (EST)

 * Splitting the ski resorts out makes sense to me, but why separate national parks from state parks? They're the same type of activity, so I'd think they'd be better served by a single list.  - (WT-en) Dguillaime 14:08, 15 January 2009 (EST)
 * My only rationale is that this is how they are split on the Utah page. It seems the reasoning on that page is divided between primary, high traffic national parks and secondary state park listings. Perhaps Utah needs some rearranging, as well? Or some moves of info down to the "See" and "Do" sections? (WT-en) WineCountryInn 14:18, 15 January 2009 (EST)

 * Or moving some of them to region articles. Utah and Colorado have the same "problem" - more fantastically gorgeous parks than they know what to do with, which does make picking just a few for the top-level page difficult.  Since the state's so big, maybe list one or two of the best/most popular parks from each region?
 * Another way to go about it might be to list only the ones on the state map on this page. That gets you six, counting Four Corners, which might make it easier to write a few descriptive words about each one.  (Sadly, I haven't been to any of those parks - an oversight I need to correct! - so I can't offer much assistance.)  - (WT-en) Dguillaime 18:49, 15 January 2009 (EST)

Begun building out "See" section
Rather than overpopulate the Other destinations section in Colorado like they have in Utah's Other destinations (see conversation above), I have taken a stab at organizing some of the state parks, national monuments, etc. in the "See" section. Basic info now, just as a placer and to work quickly, with proper listing and formatting to follow later. (The tedious part). I have also worked hard on filling out the "Eat", "Stay Safe" and "Get Out" Sections. I'd like to properly format the "Get Out" section, as well. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 19:51, 16 January 2009 (EST)

Feedback
Wow, this article has improved dramatically in the past two weeks. Two pieces of feedback from me:

 * 1) The legend and columns of the airport table seem a bit much.  I don't think we need sortable columns or links to the Colorado aeronatics web site.  Similarly, the enplanements and and "role" columns could be combined to simply provide some sense of how major an airport is.  If we get this right for Colorado it would be great to roll it out for other large region articles on the site.
 * 2) The "Get Out" section seems a bit overly-detailed.  The sub-headings seem to in effect be duplicating info from the linked articles, so I think just including a standard list of the neighboring states with 1-2 sentence descriptions (and then moving any lost info to those state's articles) would make more sense - users needing detail can simply click on the linked article.

The other sections of the article seem (to me) to be coming along really nicely, with a good bit more relevant information than we have for most states. I'd be interested in others' thoughts on the airport listings since with some minor tweaks I suspect that the example in the Colorado article could become a standardized template for use across the site. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 16:56, 17 January 2009 (EST)
 * I have no idea who added the airport info. But I agree--it does seem like overkill. I'll pare back the "Get Out" info to the bordering state and a top one or two things to do, for simplicity's sake. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 17:07, 17 January 2009 (EST)

 * Building a History section for "Understand". A concise 450-700 word history of the state will enhance the article. It's been done for Hawaii and a couple of other states. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 20:22, 18 January 2009 (EST)

 * The airport list was copied from Wikipedia: Wikipedia:List of airports in Colorado. Anything other than the raw data (which is not copyrightable) cannot stay.  (WT-en) LtPowers 20:41, 18 January 2009 (EST)

 * Initial history section built, although I'd like to add in something about the birth of the ski resorts. Also took a whack at those non-compliant Wikipedia airport charts. Have I cut them back enough to their bare data, or do they need further altering? Can someone with more skill at tables than I, maybe add websites and phone numbers to chart? Thanks! (WT-en) WineCountryInn 00:51, 19 January 2009 (EST)

Can you think of any other famous Colorado mountains?
I added a couple of national forests to the "See" section, to get the Maroon Bells, Pikes Peak and Mount Holy Cross included. What other famous/iconic Colorado mountains am I missing at this point? Can you think of any that need inclusion? (WT-en) WineCountryInn 14:52, 25 January 2009 (EST)
 * The Spanish Peaks . The trail up the West peak from Cordova Pass is doable for a family too, to above the treeline at least, where there is a lovely view of the Sangre de Cristos and everything. My family climbed it when I was about 9 and my sister was 7. (WT-en) Texugo 20:56, 25 January 2009 (EST)

Major Flaws in Colorado Regions
This may be a consequence of the reorganization of the regions in Colorado (see above), but I notice that the regional sub-pages of South Central Colorado and Northwestern Colorado do not jibe with the Colorado map. Several of the city listings need revamping. Aspen, Glenwood Springs, Redstone and Snowmass Village need to move to Northwestern Colorado. This involves some relatively simple housecleaning, but we need to reach some consensus on the city lists for both regions before I move forward. Any thoughts? (WT-en) WineCountryInn 20:16, 26 January 2009 (EST)

 * I might suggest that in some places it is the map that needs to be changed. For example, I think parts of South Central Colorado need to be extended east to match where the plains actually begin-- mountains actually extend all the way past I-25 at the border, and currently if I were to write up in a region article a blurb for the Spanish Peaks just southwest of Walsenburg, I would be forced by the current map to locate them in the Eastern Plains, which they clearly aren't. (WT-en) Texugo 22:16, 26 January 2009 (EST)

 * Unfortunately, any regional division of Colorado will have somewhat arbitrary boundaries around the borders, no matter what the configuration. The Forest Service actually lumps the Comanche National Grasslands in with the San Isabel National Forest, which extends from the mountains almost to Kansas. So the NFS and Wikivoyage honor roughly the same boundaries. I did, by the way, work in a mention of the Spanish Peaks in the main article under National Forests. :) (WT-en) WineCountryInn 22:28, 26 January 2009 (EST)

Other Destinations
The "Other Destinations" section in this article has swollen to 10 listings. Several are cities rather than national parks, but all the parks are fairly thoroughly handled in the See section. So do we keep Aspen, Vail and Breckenridge, or do we let the Skiing in Colorado article handle them? At the very least, I vote we dump Leadville, as there is no developed article. Any thoughts? (WT-en) WineCountryInn 13:04, 30 January 2009 (EST)

 * I got rid of Leadville, since it is clearly not an "other" destination (other meaning other than a city/town). I think it's fair to count ski resorts as other destinations, rather than city/town destinations, although I can see the reverse argument. Perhaps we could use something like Colorado ski resorts as one bullet point in the list, so we could include another 2 other destinations? I don't know if that's worthwhile, but it's a thought. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:53, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * I recommend we jettison Four Corners from the list, since it is already in the "Get Out" section. The ski resorts could also be consolidated. But what do we use to replace them? (WT-en) WineCountryInn 17:11, 3 February 2009 (EST)
 * One needn't necessarily replace them with anything; 9 is a maximum, not a minimum. =)  (WT-en) LtPowers 18:35, 3 February 2009 (EST)

The "Other Destinations" section has the same old stuff.. ski area towns are already reflected on this page... Do you think we could add a couple other towns? there isn't any town listed that is outside of a 200 mile radius of Denver. C'mon... the state is bigger, don't you think? I would like to add something that gets you to our region... Ouray, Telluride, Silverton, or Lake City...  Thoughts? A common area is the Alpine Triangle. Of course, I am new here but I would like to expand this section a little bit and/or replace the ski towns.(WT-en) BoxCanyonLodge 21:56, 15 May 2011 (EDT)

 * I don't know much about Colorado, but as a general principle we have often tried to get a geographic spread of Other destinations (and Cities) listed in an article. Please bear in mind that nine is the maximum that can be listed in either of those sections. ON that basis, I suggest you propose a couple of switches and wait for responses from those who know the state. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 22:03, 15 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Of the four suggestions you made, Telluride is the most prominent, right? If that was added, what should be removed in order to keep the limit within Wikivoyage's 5-9 item limit?  Aspen?  Breckinridge?  National parks are generally pretty standard for the "Other destinations" section so those should probably be left alone. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 23:27, 15 May 2011 (EDT)

 * ...actually, looking at this closer, the choices you've listed should go under the "Cities" list since they are all cities (note: while Vail, Aspen and Breckenridge are cities, the are under "Other destinations" due to the ski resorts). That list has somehow grown to ten, so we would need to remove two before adding any new one.  Suggestions? -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 23:54, 15 May 2011 (EDT)

Well, I see what you are saying except that the towns that I am talking about are tiny.... hardly "cities" but with such a large state with such a large concentration of people within 2 hours of Denver (these towns are 5-7 hours away from Denver) it makes sense to highlight them a bit more. I would pull out Breckenridge and Vail for sure since both of those are ski resorts and towns that share the same name. Aspen is a little tricker since there are actually 4 ski areas there... (WT-en) BoxCanyonLodge 00:58, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

OK, I also have another proposal... what about National Historic Districts as a larger topic like National Historic Trails? Silverton, Ouray, and Telluride are Natl. Historic Districts. Lake City might be too, I have to go check. Would you accept that?(WT-en) BoxCanyonLodge 00:58, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Telluride could probably go in either section; the film festival is fairly major but other than that it's just a ski resort. Canon City was the tenth city added to the Cities list; it should be the first out because the change was not discussed.  Loveland looks pretty weak, too, if we need to remove another.  (WT-en) LtPowers 14:51, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

See
In this section, i would like to add "National Recreation Trails" and "National Historic Districts". Objections?(WT-en) BoxCanyonLodge 01:02, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

Drinking, a lot
You should update your section on drinking....Portland is the city with the most breweries and the information you provided is old. Oregon is the winner in craft beer making —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 188.131.17.211 (talk • contribs)

 * I disagree. You should update your section on drinking, as this is a wiki, where everyone is invited to plunge forward and improve articles themselves! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:44, 1 October 2011 (EDT)

 * okay, updated. Lumpytrout (talk) 12:28, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Climate
I added information on climate, though my knowledge is limited mostly to the Denver area and the mountains, and my writing likely requires some editing. —The preceding comment was added by 67.190.105.185 (talk • contribs)

marijuana
Hello Colorado, Washington State here...we both need to work on marijuana usage in our articles and we are having a lively discussion on a national level that I thought Colorado might be interested in. --Lumpytrout (talk) 12:08, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Clear Creek County
I see we/I split Clear Creek County (by I-70) between South Central Colorado and Northwestern Colorado. That's a little weird in and of itself, but my bigger concern is that Ski Loveland is separated from all the other ski resorts in Summit County. Could we maybe split it a different way? --Peter Talk 19:02, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:37, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Columbine Arapahoe Pass Trail Boulder County Colorado.jpg

Need a warning?
I'm seeing stories like this Hundreds of homes lost amid fast-spreading Colorado fires with reports 30,000 people have been evacuated and "Gov. Jared Polis has declared a state of emergency."

I suspect we need a warning, but I don't know the region & have little time right now, so I won't do it. Any volunteers? Pashley (talk) 12:02, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Destination of the Month?
We get more state-level regions as Destination of the Month, and this is the only US state on guide level. What does this article need to feature? Among other situations, the article needs some words about the crime and public safety situation. /Yvwv (talk) 12:52, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Colorado


text:
Talk:Colorado's Wine Country

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Work in Progress

 * A general plea, so this doesn't become solely a project of one person: Please help contribute to this article!

Status report: I've begun the process of fleshing out the winery information, as per recommendations from Destination of the Month. Hunting down wine map from Palisade Chamber of Commerce, with permission, although I suspect it will be inadequate for Wikivoyage standards. (Maybe one of Wikivoyage's uber-editor/mapmakers could draft something from original?) Need some help crediting photos at both Palisade and Colorado's Wine Country. All pix are in the public domain, courtesy of the Colorado Wine Industry Development Board. Fleshing out surrounding communities will take some time. What started as a civic minded project to better promote my hometown (and the family business) has grown into a monster effort to avoid being cast into the purgatory of the Slush Pile. I'd like to grow this into a viable nominee and eventually a Star article. Still, should be a fun project. Feedback appreciated. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 11:35, 9 January 2009 (EST) (WT-en) WineCountryInn 16:12, 9 January 2009 (EST)

 * Any map is better than none (and is required for a Star), so if you can get access/licensing to one, let's see what it looks like! (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:24, 10 January 2009 (EST)

Winery List Finished
Please do not delete the [|Winery Listings] in the "Do" section. I want to make the list as comprehensive as possible, rather than single out individual wineries or to place them in specific towns mentioned in the Wine Regions Section. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 16:13, 9 January 2009 (EST)

 * I think the current setup is fine. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:24, 10 January 2009 (EST)

Removed Winery Regions
Removed the Wine Regions Section because the taxonomy was problematic. These are small towns, not wine regions in their own right. The Grand Valley and West Elks AVAs are more properly labeled regions. Added more pix and a .jpg map, with permission from the Palisade, CofC. Added extensively to the Sleep, Eat, Drink, Contact sections. Added a Cope section, as well. I hope this article achieves star status, and is a serious contender for OtBP. What else is needed, in your opinions? (WT-en) WineCountryInn 12:30, 11 January 2009 (EST)

 * At a quick glance the "Wine Resources" section may not be in compliance with Project:External links - it's very tough to avoid spam in articles, so the external links policy is pretty tough. You might also want to make "History" a sub-section of "Understand" so that the main headers match standards elsewhere on the site.  Additionally, and this is just my personal preference, I'd prefer to see more general focus on wine towns/regions, types of lodging, types of restaurants, how wine tastings works, available activities, etc., and less focus on individual wineries and restaurants.  As an example, I live in California, and if we started a similar article that listed restaurants and lodging in California's wine country I have no doubt that the article would eventually become a mess of hundreds of listings; however, an article that focused on the major wine regions (Napa, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz) and then gave pointers to towns in those regions, types of lodging (spas, hotels, etc) might have more success.  We would provide pointers to travelers about where to go for wine-related activity, and they could then search the (smaller) town articles for lodging and restaurant options.  That's just my two cents - as Jani pointed out, you're doing a great job with this article and have avoided many of the pitfalls that new contributors fall into. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 13:10, 11 January 2009 (EST)

To Eat or Not to Eat, to Sleep, or Perchance to Dream
Probably the best argument I can make for listing the wineries and restaurants in Colorado's Wine Country rather than just individual towns is the scale of these wine regions. The Grand Valley and West Elks AVA are sparsely populated and do not encompass the size or scope of any California wine region. (You could probably plunk the sum total of Colorado's grape acreage into a single Bob Mondavi vineyard). I don't anticipate a flood of spam listings. I could live with or without the URLs for the wineries. It was merely an attempt to be comprehensive, as per feedback from the OtBP section. Also, this is a travel topic, since it does not encompass a specific region, but both Northwestern Colorado and Southwestern Colorado. Thanks for the input!(WT-en) WineCountryInn 13:57, 11 January 2009 (EST)

 * If the total number of wineries is less than 50-60 then listing individual wineries in one place definitely makes sense. I'm less confident about the restaurant, bar, and hotel listings - is the region self-contained and sparsely populated enough that these lists won't balloon out of proportion?  Typically we remove individual restaurant and hotel listings from region articles since there tend to be so many, but if this is a special case then maybe just adding a line of text explaining "this sparsely-populated region has few towns, but the following isolated hotels offer lodging for visitors" (or something to that effect) would help limit hotel owners in Colorado from overwhelming your article? -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 14:06, 11 January 2009 (EST)

 * I'm fairly confident the eat, sleep and drink listings will not be overwhelmed. I chose only the top picks for each town/category. This is what was suggested by (WT-en) Gorilla Jones for the wineries until I fleshed out the winery listings (and there are only 37 wineries for both AVAs). The only areas with any density of hotels are Montrose and Grand Junction. The profiles for both locales are in total disarray because no one is really posting for Western Colorado. Even the popular resorts like Aspen and Vail are only outlines, while the state-level listing for Colorado also needs some work. Denver is the only article I've spotted for the region with substantive material. If the other editors want the eat, sleep, drink listings moved to the town/city level, I have no problem with that. (Just don't delete them!) But I feel strongly the wineries need to stay where they are. I will add the line of text that (WT-en) Ryan is advocating. So what else needs to happen before this becomes a star? (WT-en) WineCountryInn 16:58, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Wine External Links Fixed
Using proper link formatting now. (Minor edit). All three links for "Wine Resources" are primary sites and related topics of interest, as per Project:External links: "The official Web sites of cultural and educational organizations offering programs of interest to travelers, such as foreign language instruction or cooking classes." Two of the links offer educational programs to the public: Rocky Mountain Association of Vintners & Viticulturalists and the Western Colorado Research Center, A State-Funded Viticulture Program. The third link, the Colorado Wine Industry Development Board, is an official government Web site, but since it is referenced earlier in the article, I removed it. Do these links fit the bill, as per the concerns mentioned by (WT-en) Ryan? I added a few clarifying sentences in this subsection to explain their usefulness. Thanks!(WT-en) WineCountryInn 17:52, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Map Added
The winery map of Palisade has been added, courtesy of the Palisade Chamber of Commerce. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 19:35, 11 January 2009 (EST) Talk

Begun to Add Unique Descriptions to Each Winery
This was requested by both (WT-en) Sertmann and (WT-en) Gorilla Jones, and I think it's a doable task. Adding a "Why Visit" line to each winery to help differentiate them. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 22:08, 11 January 2009 (EST)
 * Unique descriptions of each winery have been added. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 02:37, 12 January 2009 (EST)

Listing format
I think the current listing format is decidedly idiosyncratic and needs to be changed to be as close to our Manual of Style format as possible. We don't usually put address, directions, description, etc. on separate, titled sub-bullets like that. I think each listing should be collapsed into a single bullet entry to fit along with the was we usually do listings around here. (WT-en) Texugo 23:28, 11 January 2009 (EST)
 * In addition, the state and zip code need to be struck from all addresses, and the website link needs to go after the address and phone number. (WT-en) Texugo 23:45, 11 January 2009 (EST)

Normally I'd agree with you, but this:

 * Amber Ridge Vineyards 3820 G. 25 Road Palisade, CO 81526 +1-970-464-5314. By appointment only.
 * Grapes: Chardonnay, Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon.
 * Directions: Heading West From Denver I-70 to exit 44 (about 14 miles from Grand Junction, Colorado). Exit 44 turns into State Hwy 6. Follow this for about a mile and a half to 38 road. Turn right on 38 Road and go about 1/4 mile to Corley Vineyards,LP, dba Amber Ridge Vineyards. Look for vineyard on your right at 3820 G. 25 Road. Heading East From Grand Junction: I-70 to exit 42. This turns into Elberta Ave. Stay on Elberta about one mile until you reach State Hwy. 6. Turn left. You will be heading East. Go about 1 mile, over the bridge at the Colorado River, and turn left on 38 Road. Follow this about 1/4 mile to Corley Vineyards,LP, dba Amber Ridge Vineyards. Look for vineyard on your right at 3820 G. 25 Road.
 * Why Visit: Enjoy a glass at their granite and travertine tasting bar, or sit outside and enjoy the views of the Boocliffs from the deck.

Looks infinately less confusing than this:

 * <see name="Amber Ridge Vineyards" alt="" address="3820 G. 25 Road Palisade" directions="Heading West From Denver I-70 to exit 44 (about 14 miles from Grand Junction, Colorado). Exit 44 turns into State Hwy 6. Follow this for about a mile and a half to 38 road. Turn right on 38 Road and go about 1/4 mile to Corley Vineyards,LP, dba Amber Ridge Vineyards. Look for vineyard on your right at 3820 G. 25 Road. Heading East From Grand Junction: I-70 to exit 42. This turns into Elberta Ave. Stay on Elberta about one mile until you reach State Hwy. 6. Turn left. You will be heading East. Go about 1 mile, over the bridge at the Colorado River, and turn left on 38 Road. Follow this about 1/4 mile to Corley Vineyards,LP, dba Amber Ridge Vineyards. Look for vineyard on your right at 3820 G. 25 Road. " phone="+1-970-464-5314" email="" fax="" url="http://www.corleyvineyards.com" hours="" price="">Grapes: Chardonnay, Merlot, Cabernet Sauvignon'' Why Visit: Enjoy a glass at their granite and travertine tasting bar, or sit outside and enjoy the views of the Boocliffs from the deck.

No? I don't really think the directions should (which is usefull information) should have to go, just to fit perfectly with our manual of style, but if you can come up a more appropriate format, closer to the MOS please smack it up here. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 23:52, 11 January 2009 (EST)

 * Btw, I just wanted to note that I think this is outstanding work! --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 23:55, 11 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'd say make an exception for the individual listing when there is too much direction information or whatever. I don't see any reason to make an exception for the whole list. (WT-en) Texugo 23:57, 11 January 2009 (EST)
 * Unique descriptions of each winery have been added. I have begun to clean up the winery listings as debated between (WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk and (WT-en) Texugo. I will have to address the manual of style issues tomorrow. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 02:42, 12 January 2009 (EST)

 * I think the problem with the mile-long directions description is not the style in which it's formatted, it's the mile-long description itself. The map, which I'll note already includes Amber Ridge, does a much better job. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:56, 12 January 2009 (EST)

 * I agree. The first few wineries under the Grand Valley AVA are too long winded. I will trim them. However, a majority of the other directions to the wineries are fairly terse. The map addresses only the wineries in the Grand Valley, and not West Elks, so at least West Elks needs some directions. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 11:40, 12 January 2009 (EST)

 * Listing Format Addressed. Cleaned up the Wiki markup language for all listings. Used Manual of Style for listings wherever I spotted it. Please go over the listings with a fine tooth comb and tell me where stylistically I am non-compliant. I hope this addresses the editing concerns expressed by (WT-en) Texugo, (WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk, (WT-en) Gorilla Jones and (WT-en) Jpatokal. I appreciate all the feedback. The peer review is phenomenal. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 15:39, 12 January 2009 (EST)

 * Possible MoS improvements: Copy editing this myself, it looks like there is some cleanup for Street abbreviations, temperature and measurement abbreviations, metric conversions. Am I missing anything? (WT-en) WineCountryInn 16:15, 12 January 2009 (EST)
 * MoS Editing Completed: Edited copy and it should now be MoS compliant. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 13:28, 13 January 2009 (EST)

 * Once again, you're doing really really great work - A round of applause from me - I know how tedious this can get --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 15:39, 13 January 2009 (EST)
 * As geeky as this sounds, I find it kinda fun! (WT-en) WineCountryInn 16:49, 13 January 2009 (EST)

Cope Versus Do
I am attempting to be self-critical and as "by the book" for Wikivoyage as I can possibly be, esp. since this is an OtBP nomination. I have been poring over the MoS for Sections, and it looks like the copy I have under Cope is better listed under Do. Do you agree? Adding Hospitals, Police Stations and Tourist Information Centers shouldn't be a big deal. What else is needed? And on a side note, and without getting into the controversy currently swirling around the Wikivoyage community, I do want to thank those of you who have offered your advice and time towards making this article the best it can possibly be. I'm sure I speak for a lot of the "newbies" out there when I say that the admins and users are doing a phenomenal job. Please keep up the good work! (WT-en) WineCountryInn 13:38, 13 January 2009 (EST)

When to come
Two quick things. Any special reason to make an exception here? (WT-en) Texugo 09:14, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * I think this should read When to go rather than When to come.
 * When to go sections, when we have them, usually come under Understand.
 * An easy fix. I'll switch it around. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 09:33, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * Cool. Looks good. I'm also a little concerned that putting all the grapes in italics leaves us with way too much italicized text in the listings. MoS-sanctioned uses of italics are really only for phone numbers and directions, or to provide grammatical emphasis within a sentence. (WT-en) Texugo 10:25, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * Ouch! I'm hoping for a shortcut. Is there an automated admin tool for pulling itals out of the code? Or is it line by line, the "hard" way? (WT-en) WineCountryInn 11:19, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'll be glad to do it, but it won't be til tomorrow. (WT-en) Texugo 11:34, 14 January 2009 (EST)
 * Thanks for the edits. It's starting to look pretty clean. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 01:53, 16 January 2009 (EST)

Wine towns built out
I have been hammering away at all the wine towns mentioned in this article to make sure they are usable. Now the towns of Paonia, Hotchkiss, Montrose, Delta all have usable profiles. There are no more stubs. Palisade was already built and the city of Grand Junction just needs a little fine tuning. (I'd like to add a history section and flesh out the restaurants a bit). All the listings for Colorado's Wine Country have been duplicated in these individual towns, as per my conversations with many of you in the Wiki community. Thanks, (WT-en) WineCountryInn 00:09, 23 January 2009 (EST)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Colorado's Wine Country


text:
Talk:Colorado City

There is a c-store across the highway from Hildale and Colorado City. There is another one in one of the communities, but I cant remember which one?

title: Talk:Colorado City


text:
Talk:Colorado Springs

''I think it's better to leave the article uncluttered with what could be transient issues, but I also think it's a good use of wiki to note details here about wireless access problems. Please log your own experiences here, newest at the top (like a blog).'' -- (WT-en) tbc 13:42, 5 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * This isn't really what the Talk pages are for. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 17:05, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

The Daily Grind has fast, reliable, free access. -- 70.32.150.120, 10:38, 18 Jul 2005

Sitting in Einstein Bros. Café. I can connect to Einstein_Bros_Hotspot, but cannot talk to anything else on the Internet (not even 10.0.0.1, 192.168.0.1, or 172.16.0.1). Fortunately, I have a signal from ESSID linksys and can connect just fine through that (although nyc.speakeasy.net measures bandwidth at only 130kbps down, 80kbps up). Cashier actually knew they had wireless and who to talk to about rebooting their router. That's better than par for hot spots. But even after they rebooted I had to use the linksys ESSID.-- (WT-en) tbc 13:42, 5 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Just discovered the newly-opened Summit House this past week. Trying to use Web today. Can edit this page, but cannot connect to Google (of all places). Also cannnot connect to the CNET Bandwidth Meter Speed Test. I'm using Firefox 1.0 on Ubuntu Linux. I can ssh port-forward to access my custom IRC and IMAP services, though. Go figure. -- (WT-en) tbc 15:08, 27 Dec 2004 (EST)

Brew Me speed measured using speedtest.net: http://www.speedtest.net/result/113301871.png -- (WT-en) tbc 16:40, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Raven's Nest: http://www.speedtest.net/result/266942309.png -- (WT-en) tbc 11:28, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

Post-Jacking
Anyone notice under Seven Falls that it ends with "you can instead visit:," as if the management came in and deleted that part? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 165.91.187.194 (talk • contribs)

 * That colon wound up aiming in the wrong direction after the listing was converted to our preferred format (with prices at the end). The original author meant that colon to direct to the next listing, rather than to the prices . --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:59, 7 September 2009 (EDT)

Deleted Flying W ranch under the "See" category. It was destroyed in the Waldo Canyon fire. Cospgsmark (talk) 06:44, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Colorado Springs


text:
Talk:Columbia

This page causes problems when searching for 'Columbia' - I would expect the country not some city in Missuri. Remove this redirect page please.

 * The country in South America is Colombia. -- (WT-en) Paul Richter 20:14, 14 Nov 2004 (EST)

Washington (state)
Whoops, got logged out again, see Wikivoyage:Bug reports (WT-en) SHC 22:59, 9 May 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Columbia


text:
Talk:Columbia (Missouri)

I reverted the following link - http://columbiamissouri.blogspot.com, because Wikivoyage only links to external links only if they are the offical website for a city, tourist office, restaurant or hotel. I realize that there are many excellent sources of information, but our goal is to make Wikivoyage a reliable online and offline guide so we need the information in our guides and we shouldn't send a user else where to do the research or for information. -- (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 16:54, 11 August 2006 (EDT)

Additions
I made some additions to the Eat section as well as the Shop section. aabbbiee 13:53, 9 November 2006 (CST)

title: Talk:Columbia (Missouri)


text:
Talk:Columbia (South Carolina)

FEMA Camp Notification
NOTE: This blog post is just a possible/probable kind of notification. All travellers take note in advance while notifying the city's mayor. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 16:27, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

 * ALSO: Please translate the blog post in any language as soon as is possible/probable. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 16:49, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Columbia (South Carolina)


text:
Talk:Columbia Icefield

The proper title of this article should be Columbia Icefield. And yes it's the Athabasca Glacier in the picture, but the visitor center (Columbia Icefield Visitors' Centre) describes the entire icefield.

But why is this an article unto itself? Isn't this just one sight (albeit the most important) along the Icefields Parkway? -- (WT-en) Colin 14:23, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT)

 * Hurgh. Note that this is one of the oldest articles on Wikivoyage, from back when we were just figuring out what we were doing. I think the Columbia Icefield would meet our criteria for Project:What is an article?. Maybe it should be moved there? --(WT-en) Evan 15:42, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT)

 * That works for me. We can always see how it develops change things later if need be. --(WT-en) Colin 15:44, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT)

title: Talk:Columbia Icefield


text:
Talk:Columbia River Plateau

Cities / MoS
Have added a MoS template to the cities as there are 15 in the list, and it's oddly formatted. I don't really know enough about the area, plus I need to leave in 10 mins, so I don't really have the time to sort this out. Hopefully, someone with a little more time and/or knowledge can get this list down to the 9 we usually list. (WT-en) Nrms 14:52, 8 February 2010 (EST)

photo
ran across this great quality image in the commons and thought it could be used on this page, but not sure if its actually considered to be in the Columbia River Plateau area. Lumpytrout (talk) 02:11, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

page banner

For the record, I guess nobody will object if I replace the generic sky banner with a more specific one with Columbia river. --Danapit (talk) 07:08, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

Alternative banner for this article?
I created a new alternative banner for this article (I initially created it first and foremost so that it would be used at the top of the parallel article in the Hebrew edition of Wikivoyage, yet I later decided to also suggest that the English Wikivoyage community would consider using it here as well). So, which banner do you prefer having at the top of this article? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 05:06, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * I don't see a clear advantage for one banner over the other. Can the new banner be used appropriately for another article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:41, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I disagree with a change. Neither has the new proposed banner a better quality, nor it represents Columbia River Plateau landscape. Danapit (talk) 19:08, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * The new banner is cropped from a beautiful image, but I agree with Danapit. There's no river in sight; that's why I still prefer the current banner. Using the new banner somewhere else would be good though. JuliasTravels (talk) 20:59, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, I don't know the region but if I understand correctly, the Columbia River Plateau lies between the Cascade Range and the Rocky Mountains. Mt Adams is part of the Cascade Range, so Danapit might be right in saying the new banner doesn't really represent the Columbia River Plateau? Are we sure it's a view from the right direction? JuliasTravels (talk) 21:09, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Keep existing for sure. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 00:52, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Columbia River Plateau


text:
Talk:Columbus

Columbus, OH is way more famous.
Anyone object to me making Columbus (Ohio) the default page for "Columbus"? Columbus, OH has a pop of 700,000 compared to Columbus, GA's 180,000. Furthermore, Ohio's city is more important as the seat of government for Ohio and it's metro area has a pop of 1,700,000. - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 01:14, 25 June 2006 (EDT)

Districts
I'm want to break Columbus down into several districts. I don't visit Columbus very often, but it is fairly hard to navigate even if you've been there several times before hand.

Some of the districts I'm thinking about creating:

 * Columbus/Brewery District
 * Columbus/Short North - and the "Arena District".
 * Columbus/University Area
 * Columbus/German Village
 * Columbus/Downtown - Which will incoporate the Ohio Capitol area

Anyone have suggestions, questions, or concerns? -- (WT-en) Sapphire 19:02, 30 September 2006 (EDT)

The districts that have been created are all fine, but they only include a small area of Columbus. Could we eliminate the Brewery District/Arena District (very small area, but renovated and popular) and merge with Downtown? Merge Short North (about a three block stretch on High)and University District. Create 4 new districts NE/NW/SE/SW - I71 and I70 interesect at about the center of Columbus, that is where I suggest the quarters be divided. (WT-en) 2old 10:58, 26 November 2007 (EST)

 * Whatever works. I've only been to Columbus a few times and seem to get lost, so I was trying to go by what I knew. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 17:18, 28 November 2007 (EST)
 * Thanks for responding. (WT-en) 2old 13:34, 30 November 2007 (EST)

 * I agree with the above suggestion to merge Brewery District with Downtown. Also, we need articles for Clintonville, Grandview, Bexley, and maybe Victorian Village.

Crime section
I think the crime section is overly alarmist. In the "scary" area where you are supposed to stay in your car and close your windows are the Lincoln Theater, King Arts Center, Franklin Park Conservatory, and BEXLEY. Come on!

 * I agree, this is RIDICULOUS. If you look at crime maps for Columbus, NONE of this crazy stuff shows up. There are car break ins mostly, and simple assaults, but it is not insane. Organized crime? Really? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 140.254.102.4 (talk • contribs)

 * Fix it. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 16:47, 5 October 2010 (EDT)

Learn
This section is supposed to contain short courses for the traveller to take. I removed the following listings:

 * Capital University, 1 College and Main. +1 614 236-6011
 * Columbus College of Art & Design, 107 North Ninth St +1 614 224-9101
 * Columbus State Community College, 550 E. Spring St +1 614 287-5353
 * DeVry University Columbus, 1350 Alum Creek Dr +1 614 253-7291
 * Hondros College, 4140 Executive Parkway, Westerville. +1 614 508-7277.   Nursing, real estate, appraisal, insurance and other subjects.
 * Ohio State School for the Blind, 5220 N High St., +1 614 752-1359 K-12 grades. Excellent resident school for the blind.
 * Ohio Dominican University Campus,  1216 Sunbury Rd, +1 614 473-9003.   One of Ohio’s oldest and most respected accredited universities.

If any of the above offer something for the traveler they can be re-introduced as either a Learn listing (for courses) or a See listing (for things to see of interest). I already moved the OSU listing to Columbus/University Area. (WT-en) Texugo 00:45, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

Movetodistrict
Is it time to move all the specific listings here temporarily? This situation has stagnated for years, hasn't it? If anyone knows which district the various listings belong in, please move them there. Thank you! Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:13, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

 * This article has been districted since 2007 or 2008 (definitely no later than 2008 - I confirmed that). So isn't it about freakin time to clean the article up? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:16, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Seems like it's about time Tai123.123 (talk) 03:31, 29 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Columbus


text:
Talk:Columbus (Mississippi)

I removed the comments around the blank parts of the guide. For Wikivoyage, we always show the whole article template, regardless of whether it's finished. That lets people know that there's still more info to add... which hopefully they will! --(WT-en) Evan 11:32, 28 November 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Columbus (Mississippi)


text:
Talk:Columbus (Ohio)

Holy crumbs! This page is coming along nicely! --(WT-en) Evan 22:18, 9 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Been Here
I been here. (WT-en) Rspga49 (talk) 15:54 September 28, 2004 (EDT)

City vs. metropolis
This, of course, is somewhat misleading as this does not take into account the more accurate measurement of the city's metropolitan area.

Measurement of metropolitan areas in the US can hardly be described as "accurate". Anyway, the US Census Bureau counts 1.674 million people in the Columbus MSA. Cincinnati, by contrast, contains 2.047 million people in its MSA; good for a slot only seven places above Columbus when all the US MSA's are ranked.

Bottom line: The discussion of metropolitan areas in this article is itself misleading. I'm working on revising it now. -- (WT-en) SwissCelt 23:35, 11 Jan 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Columbus (Ohio)


text:
Talk:Columbus/Downtown

The Short North scene is woefully under-mentioned. Axis is a popular gay nightclub there and Union Cafe is a popular lgbt bar and cafe. The whole LGBT scene of the Short North deserves more mention in this article. Also, the club Sugar may be closed down permanently.

Santa Maria
AFAIK the Santa Maria can't be visited anymore. So is this true and should we remove it from the list? Doktorpixel14 (talk) 19:53, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item is missing permission
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item is missing permission information and may be deleted: You can see the details at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:54, 9 August 2020 (UTC)
 * COTA CNG Gillig Low-Floor.jpg
 * Looks like it'll be deleted, so we may want another photo of a COTA bus. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:33, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Columbus/Downtown


text:
Talk:Combatting Depression While Travelling

Hey, should this be merged with Coping with a long trip? I'm trying to think of things that would go one one and not the other and can't think of any... (WT-en) Majnoona 15:09, 6 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * Merging them for now (WT-en) Hypatia 19:02, 17 Apr 2005 (EDT)


text:
Talk:Comino

This was written from memory and the history section for instance hasn't been checked. Some things I ommited as I'm not certain of are if one can rent bikes even if one isn't a guest, and what opportunities there are to travel between Comino and Gozo.

Why were the external links removed though? PeterW (earlier)
 * Ok I know now, read the article on 'external links'. (WT-en) PeterW 16:29, 16 Feb 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Comino


text:
Talk:Common scams

Problems with article scope
I've contributed a fair bit to this article including its current structure, and I think it makes sense for Wikivoyage to have some coverage of travel-related ripoffs and scams. However, I am wondering about the scope of this article. A great deal of it is devoted to coercive crime of the drugging (see above), forced removal, many-on-one threats of violence kind of level. While terrible things do happen to travellers who are trusting, unlucky and/or greedy, I am wondering how much space we want to devote to them. It might be that my own experience is biasing me, but I suspect we're describing an awful lot of very rare events in an article called "Common scams" and since we're (per site style) not using citations are quite likely describing a few things heard from friends of friends of friends who once read a newspaper article about travel-related crime in SE Asia. Is there a need and a good way to rewrite it as common scams, rather than "every scary story anyone's heard about travel"? (WT-en) Hypatia 06:53, 26 December 2008 (EST)

 * Agreed. I've removed the Drugging sections, it's hardly a "scam" any more than violent mugging is.  (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:46, 10 January 2009 (EST)

 * For the same reason, the following should also be removed I think: Pickpockets, Red light bag snatch, and (possibly) Credit card skimming. These things, while very unfortunate and unpleasant, are hardly scams as such. Especially the first two.(WT-en) Dantilley 03:56, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

 * Perhaps the article should be moved to crime and scams to reflect the subject matter, or split? K7L (talk) 18:15, 15 September 2013 (UTC)
 * This was subsequently split, see crime and theft.

Dubious advice
''If you are willing to take the health and legal risks of hiring a prostitute, go to a "massage shop", "sauna" or whatever the local euphemism is. These establishments are significantly safer than the street workers.'' -- except in a minority of areas where such institutions which are legal and effectively regulated, this seems highly dubious advice - surely being on the potential scammer's home territory with the potential for compatriots to bar your exit is even more of a potential threat to the safety of the sex-tourist and his wallet.
 * This is pretty dubious also: However, an ambitious traveler can actually work this scam in their favor, as in certain countries where meters are required (e.g. China) the passenger cannot be forced to pay for an "informal" (that is, unmetered) taxi ride. A tourist is therefore free to walk away after the ride without paying anything at all: once you step out of his vehicle the driver will have no proof of transaction to show the police. This tactic is not recommended for use by the weak of heart. (WT-en) Dantilley 03:58, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

 * I think the first one is reasonable advice; someone with an address you could summon cops to is generally more cautious than a random street whore that you could not find again if you tried. It does not claim this is entirely safe, just "safer than the street workers".

 * The second one strikes me as crazy. Pashley (talk) 16:23, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

To Guide
What needs to be done to make this article a Guide? It's an important topic, and I would like to feature it on the front page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:42, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

 * At a minimum, it needs a banner.

 * I'd say, though, that it needs a complete rewrite/re-organisation before it is ready to feature. For one thing, touting and commission deserve their own section, even though they are not strictly a scam. Taxis also need their own section, including the advice (good for most of Asia at least) to always use the taxi line at airports, train stations, etc., never the eager guys who approach you inside the terminal. Pashley (talk) 16:34, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

 * Does some of what is there violate No advice from Captain Obvious? Pashley (talk) 17:17, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

 * I'll have to look again to see if anything is really obvious, but I would think this kind of article should include warnings about scams that are obvious to seasoned travelers. Ignoring taxi touts is equally good advice at Kennedy Airport in New York, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:57, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

 * Strictly speaking it's not a requirement for Guide status, but this article probably has the lowest photo to text ratio of all our articles and therefore looks as aesthetically exciting as a train schedule. The problem is to find appropriate photos, as we absolutely wouldn't want to imply that e.g. some random people in a photo in the front of the Forbidden City are carrying out the Chinese Art school scam... ϒpsilon (talk) 19:14, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

 * I like train schedules. Though I prefer them to be at least a little bit colorful, so the point is well taken. The advice for taxi-touts is equally valid for the main station of Prague. Maybe we should link to this here article every time we mention taxi-touts? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:29, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Good idea. One scam is seldom confined to just one city or country or even continent. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:43, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Photos are difficult. I wouldn't worry too much about them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:24, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

[indent reset] Photos added, and the article no longer looks like a wall of text. ϒpsilon (talk) 07:47, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Upgraded. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:20, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Organisation could be improved
Many scams under "Helpful locals" aren't about "helpful" locals at all (at least not to the victim), or attempt to make you the helpful one from the very start: art school, just been robbed, and Begging for medicine to sick family members.

Dating site scams?
I recently added a section Common_scams because during a recent trip to the Philippines most of the ones mentioned were tried on me, and the only one that wasn't (video chat) is mentioned on several other web sites.

However it is arguably out-of-scope and/or a violation of our Sex tourism policy, so it seems prudent to ask for other opinions here. Pashley (talk) 05:00, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

 * The policy expressly permits warnings to travellers about crime which may be perpetrated against them. K7L (talk) 05:10, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

More scams
There's a book of these, "Travel Advisory: How to Avoid Thefts, Cons, and Street Scams While Travelling" – December 24, 2003 by Bambi Vincent/Bob Arno, ISBN 978-1566251983 and its website http://bobarno.com/thiefhunters/barcelona-scams/ looks to be a huge list of common scams and modus operandi for pickpockets and theft; odds are there are a few there we missed? K7L (talk) 19:44, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

Fake cops advice and Serbia
Several months ago, there was quite a bit of media attention in Serbia to a case where a USA citizen was stopped by a traffic police and had to pay a fine. The whole incident resulted in a series of statements by the Ministry of Internal Affairs that it is indeed legal in Serbia to pay in some cases 50% of the fine in cash directly to the police officer or to choose to pay 100% of the fine later at a post office or a bank. Since this goes against the advice given in the Common Scams article, I have edited the article by adding "almost" in front of anywhere and adding a small note about situation in Serbia. In the long run, it would be a good idea to reword the article in order to make it a bit clearer that there are exceptions to the rule.46.12.234.179 10:25, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Too much detail?
Someone started a section at Common_scams. I have already expanded it considerably and will do more, but it occurs to me to wonder if I'm going into too much detail for this article, perhaps even for a travel guide.

Should some of this be moved to Telephone service for travel or Internet access? Or links added in those articles? Pashley (talk) 15:24, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Cheap flights
A lovely song on the topic. I'm not sure if a link can go in the article. Pashley (talk) 20:13, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

More online dating scams
We have a section on Common_scams, but a Slashdot article links to some we don't cover:
 * "catfishing"
 * Arguably not a scam, but people are paying impersonators to represent them on dating sites

Should we add these? Pashley (talk) 10:20, 28 April 2018 (UTC)

Passport illustration
Common_scams currently has a photo that claims to be an "Example of a passport used by romance scammers".

Does that violate policy at Commons? Pashley (talk) 14:08, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Apparently it doesn't, otherwise they'd probably deleted it already. It's used on Wikipedia and Wikibooks too, so many people have seen it and noone seems to have raised any objections. Also, the source linked to from Commons, the U.S. State of Department, refers to the picture as "Example D: Types of fake passport used by romance scammers to convince victims of their travel intentions" and has published it as such. ϒpsilon (talk) 14:33, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

 * The photo is obviously fake as it's non-compliant with the ISBN 9780061099816 requirements for passport photos (and, post-9/11, those requirements have only gotten worse, requiring what is euphemistically called a "neutral expression") but there is a risk that "scam photos" will be images of random/uninvolved real people which have been stolen by scammers and used as their own. Do we know whose picture is being used here? K7L (talk) 15:14, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Unless the original source is lying, this fake passport has nevertheless been used for attempting to cheat someone. So at least the scammers have thought they'll be able to cheat the victim with a photo and passport like this. The Wikipedia article where the photo is used explicitly points out that the photo obviously is not a passport photo.
 * Actually, the photo description should say that if you're presented with documents looking like this, you should get alarmed.
 * The U.S. State of Department or may not be able to tell who the person in the photo is. ϒpsilon (talk) 16:30, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Abusing stolen SIM cards
The article says:
 * If someone steals your handset, even if it's locked, they can pull the SIM and place it into any unlocked handset to gain control of your mobile number;

Isn't the SIM locked when it loses power, so that you have to enter your PIN to gain access to it on the other phone. This is separate from the handset being locked. If it is common not to have the SIM card require the PIN when turning on your phone, that is what we should warn about.

It continues:
 * alternately, they impersonate you to your mobile carrier for long enough to have their employee move your number to another phone. Your handset goes dead (as if you'd cancelled your subscription) and they now have your number for use to impersonate you and request "lost password" access to all of your other accounts.

Move your number to another phone? To my understanding the number is connected to the SIM, not to the handset. How do they impersonate me if I still have my phone and SIM or they cannot unlock my SIM? And if they can, why would they need to move the number anywhere else?

--LPfi (talk) 22:00, 1 February 2019 (UTC)

 * This must vary by country. My SIM card here in China doesn't have a PIN, and I can transfer it to a different phone with no trouble. But I agree the passage you've quoted is confusing—if the person stole your handset, then surely you won't notice or care that your handset went dead. —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:43, 2 February 2019 (UTC)

Rental car claims of damage
I suppose we should add some advice to this section. The article on car rental already advices you to note "scratches and dents", but if the vehicle is full of them, I doubt your having added one would entitle the shop to any repair costs. Is there really any reason to record all of them? Obviously you should note in the papers that there are scratches, and if you find something more serious that should be noted too.

There is of course a real problem in that the company can charge your credit card and that you do not have the time to start a prolonged process to get the disagreament solved (and perhaps not to get impartial witnesses). I suppose the card company in many cases would believe you, but perhaps not universally. What should you do, when renting, returning, and after getting home?

--LPfi (talk) 12:28, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Guests asked for additional payment, due to dispute with another party (like a package operator)? .....
Is this something that happens that often?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49787563 ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 14:02, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

 * Not often, I suppose, but it may be standard procedure when the package operator did not pay and goes bankrupt when you are still there. I have heard about a similar case with another company. --LPfi (talk) 19:06, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

How to spot genuine govt officials/ law enforcment vs scams?
Should there be a comment here about that or in a different article?

Me suggested line would have been a long the lines of "Genuine government officials will not need your bank details at a first contact." in an appropriate section, but wanted to ask first given that there are jurisdictions where an instant payment for a fine may be the actual procedure,

Also here in the UK, there was concern expressed, that scammers might impersonate "contact tracers" over the phone, with a view to obtaining 'sensitive personal data' or bank information, which could then be used to scam those contacted, such as for example "asking for bank details to set up payment for a testing kit". Not sure if this is a potential scam that should be mentioned here or under the advice in the Covid article. ShakespeareFan00 (talk)

 * I cannot understand why genuine officials would ask for bank details at any point. If you get fined, it would be you who would offer to pay on the spot, in cash, or ask for details to pay later – but those details should be stated on the bill.

 * In the section on fake cops the article says: "It is quite easy to impersonate a police officer. [...] Though a real officer knows the difference, a naive civilian (let alone a foreign visitor) does not." I think that is what it boils down to.

 * You could ask them to show their ID, and if that request is uncommon they might not have a fake one. But how would they then react? Go away? Hardly. You have to offer an alternative. In some of our articles I think I read about asking to be taken to the police station, but entering their car might be risky. Perhaps calling the police would be possible, asking for advice on what to do.

 * --LPfi (talk) 11:56, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

 * How are telephone scams of particular relevance to travellers? I think they are a general problem, but not one that should be addressed in a travel guide. Ground Zero (talk) 12:10, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

 * Only if there are some specifically targeting travellers. The other question, about how to recognise a genuine police officer is certainly relevant. --LPfi (talk) 08:29, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Right to request another officer?
The article now says, in Fake cops: "If you are in doubt, you have the right to request for another officer to come to the scene." Is this true universally? I have never heard about such a right here in Finland (the next patrol can be 100 km away, and may be busy), and I doubt it is general practice in countries where people have reason to be afraid of the police. --LPfi (talk) 08:37, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It's pretty laughable. In a country where the authorities are corrupt, your "rights" are worthless. If it's true in so-and-so-country, we should specify where.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:48, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Calling the police emergency number should be possible in countries where the police is reliable. Or are there problems with that – other than the fake cops trying to stop you? --LPfi (talk) 09:07, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Tolls
In that section of the article, it says, "In many cases you have few options besides paying and grumbling, but the mere threat of reporting the situation to authorities might do wonders in some cases."

Might? I would hope it's true if I'm in that situation. Shouldn't we verify whether or not that's a smart thing to do before suggesting it? --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 17:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

 * Hard to verify, when it might be smart in some regions and not in others. But just speculating, without knowing it works anywhere, is not good. I hope we are not doing that. --LPfi (talk) 17:39, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Avoid taxis?
In    : Flightnavigator advised to use Uber instead of taxis. Is this really good advice? Are e-hailed taxis more trustworthy than ordinary taxis? Over here taxis are usually very professional, while Uber drivers ... I don't know. Nowadays they have the same licence requirements, but I suppose they more often drive part time and have less experience (moving in and out from Uber is probably easier). And we usually avoid brand names unless for some reason talking about the brand.

Using public transport makes a lot of sense in many places, but where public transport is less useful, taxis have been the main option. In Arriving in a new city we suggest using the accommodation business to find transport. Should we say something about where the different options make sense, and when you should be afraid of taxi scams?

–LPfi (talk) 19:35, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Yes in my experience E-hailing is much better than ordinary taxis. They take the fastest way, you don't get overcharged, you pick the right destination on a map and in case something goes wrong you can contact the customer service and give a bad rating.

 * Avoiding ordinary taxis in general sounds right for me. In many countries you don't speak the same language. In developing countries you are at risk of being ripped off. In developed countries they are expensive even without ripping you off.

 * I mentioned Uber because it's available in a lot of countries. In Brazil of course 99 is good as well. In SEA Grab is nice. Flightnavigator (talk) 19:50, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Counterpoint: There was a horrific incident in Singapore of a driver for, I think it was Uber falling asleep at the wheel because drivers, setting their own hours, are working way too much in order to try to support their families, and the victim in the accident had a hell of a time trying to get any compensation, whereas compensation probably wouldn't have been as difficult to obtain from a traditional-style taxi company. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:56, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

 * The original wording was more about avoiding taxis to get to a hotel as they like to steer tourists elsewhere and try to get a "cut" from a hotel they are in cahoots with. As for the general safety of road travel... In general the private motor vehicle is the most dangerous form of transport, but having a professional driver who (depending on jurisdiction) must undergo rigorous testing and monitoring to get and keep their license can mitigate the risk somewhat - same as choosing commercial airlines over general aviation Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:15, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek: Do you use a solitary case as an argument?

"whereas compensation probably wouldn't have been as difficult to obtain from a traditional-style taxi company." probably? In most countries that taxi company does not even speak your language. Most travellers depart from that country after some days. So getting that compensation is supposed to be easier?!?

@Hobbitschuster Ok I can agree on "The best is to avoid ordinary taxis" Flightnavigator (talk) 22:02, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
 * In Egypt I found taxis to be frustrating and suspect. Careem, the local Uber, was amazing. But I don't think we know enough to be able to make a sweeping statement that is valid in all 200 countries. The question of whether taxis or ehailing apps are better will vary from country to country, and may vary between cities. Ground Zero (talk) 22:50, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

I'd err on the side of not using such a sweeping statement as "avoid taxis" (ordinary or otherwise), especially not to pimp rideshare apps, which have their own controversies. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 23:09, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

 * They speak English in Singapore. The single example I gave was just one of many examples. Right here in the U.S., it's been harder for people raped by ride-hailing companies to sue the companies than to sue traditional taxi companies in the same situation. The problem is that ridehailing companies try to pretend they don't have employees and all the drivers who work for them are independent contractors. That's very problematic in many ways. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:30, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

 * I have been avoiding taxis for the last 5 years. There is 0% of being overcharged in an Uber. I've almost been overcharged in a taxi before but not in a developing country but in Cairns, Australia. Taxi ranks are also sometimes hard to find and someone again took my taxi (waited 20 mins, then a stranger takes it) again in Cairns. SHB2000 (talk)  07:41, 29 March 2021 (UTC) ~

 * There are always reasons to make different decisions in different circumstances. I try to avoid all types of taxis as much as possible, but when I take them, it depends on a combination of price and convenience. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:04, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Mostly I just choose to go in my own car; or in extreme cases hire one. SHB2000 (talk)  09:09, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

 * I'm on the other side here. In Canada, I refuse to use Uber & the like because they have a long history of mistreating drivers & unlike taxis they are not legally required to carry liability insurance that covers passengers in the event of an accident. The incident Ikan mentions is far from the only one of its type & others I have read of were in Canada or the US.

 * Overseas, most of my travel experience is in Asia. I'd strongly advise anyone at an Asian airport or train station to reject the taxi touts & go to the designated taxi pickup area instead. I'd be inclined to class ride-hailing apps with the touts, but am not completely certain.

 * If I needed a taxi & wasn't at a station, I'd either flag one down on the street (nothing that's not marked as a taxi & preferably nothing without a meter!) or do whatever local friends advised, which might be Uber or something like it in some places. I have no problem with WV advising a ride-hailing app (or even providing a listing & link) in some country or city articles.

 * I object strongly to advising them in a global article. Pashley (talk) 09:30, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

 * I agree with Pashley's last two sentences completely. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:11, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Makes sense. We should probably add a mention on scams and link to here in country guides for countries where such scams are common (check those you know). In Sweden we have a paragraph, an image and a long caption on the local taxi concerns. We probably have a lot of country articles where the authors rely on that "common sense" includes recognising the local risks and avoiding bad drivers, which may be overoptimistic. –LPfi (talk) 10:53, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

I avoid taxis in most places (Nicaragua which is governed by "if you order socialism off of wish.com" being the main exception as cabs are ridiculously cheap there and virtually the only option in places like Managua) because they are usually an expensive and inferior option compared to public transit or using a bike. Of course in countries that are even stronger in the grips of the motorcar lobby than Germany already is, there often is no public transit worthy of that name and bicyclists are treated in a way incompatible with human dignity. Whether in such places one wishes to contribute to the shady business practices of "don't ask for permission, bribe politicians so you don't have to beg forgiveness afterwards" and their "independent contractor" scam is of course a different issue altogether. But I see no good reason to make a sweeping statement one way or the other about taxis in an article like this - we should, however, point to scams like "accommodation gets a cut" and "pirate taxi" as they are rather common around the globe. Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:39, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Proposed revision to Lodging scams
I'm an inexperienced Wikivoyage editor, although I have experience editing on Wikipedia. I would like to edit the "Lodging scams" section, but a bot considers my most recent proposed edit to be "blanking" and so I can't submit it. I've instead posted it to User:White 720/Proposed edit to Lodging scams. This edit removes a lot of flowery prose from the section and deletes some paragraphs about "scams" that are really just instances of bad behavior by businesses or by guests. Thanks for your consideration. White 720 (talk) 03:18, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

 * You're probably getting that error message because you are not yet an auto-confirmed user here. I'd like to see what some other people think, but my feeling is that you should be able to substitute what's on your user page onto this page, with the one exception that we normally do not cite secondary sources, except in edit summaries and on talk pages, although exceptions are possible if there is a consensus for them on talk pages like this one. Thanks for working on this! Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:31, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I tried to submit these edits, and I was given the following error. Note that the text at the very end is not a link, and there is no article called Article/Wikivoyage blanking by unregistered/new user or Wikivoyage blanking by unregistered/new user.
 * Warning: This action has been automatically identified as harmful. Unconstructive actions will be quickly reverted, and egregious or repeated unconstructive editing will result in your account or IP address being blocked. If you believe this action to be constructive, you may submit it again to confirm it. A brief description of the abuse rule which your action matched is: Article/Wikivoyage blanking by unregistered/new user White 720 (talk) 04:17, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Like I said, you're getting that error message because you are not yet an autoconfirmed user. I believe Wikipedia has the same filter. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:18, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Autoconfirmed users for reference. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:42, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Copying the same text in, section by section, helped me edit the article without triggering this error. Thanks! White 720 (talk) 04:54, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, fine. I am sorry you got hit. Large changes like yours are often about replacing text with some jumble; the filters aren't clever enough to tell constructive edits from unconstructive ones, so they have to guess. For the record, the threshold on this filter (#36) is not "autopatrolled" but a custom definition. –LPfi (talk) 08:34, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

"Never talk to strangers"
This isn't even good blanket advice for children (what if you have to ask a stranger for help in an emergency or tell someone who you and your parents are if you get separated in a crowd?), but in the case of adults, how do you meet anyone without talking to a stranger? I think we need a more nuanced message, such as "be cautious when talking to strangers." Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:19, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

 * I made the decision that it is more important for my children to dare to ask for help than that they avoid creepy strangers. The situation may be different in some countries, but when travelling I think that in the rare situation where they get separated from their parents, happening to meet somebody they should avoid, among all those who would help a lost child, is really improbable. One can of course tell them whom to approach themselves, and the sooner they do that, the lesser the risk that the evil ones get their chance.

 * For adults, the situation is different, as there will be no parent protecting you, so you are left to your own devices all the time. Still, what travel is it where you don't talk to strangers?

 * Here, I think the phrase is there only to connect to something the reader might recognise. As it is misleading, it is best removed, but we should think about the "You never know who someone truly is or what their intentions are ..." part. It more or less boils down to not being too naïve, not to go the route of Candide. I think the rest of the article, including the lead, makes the point of not all strangers having good intentions clear enough.

 * –LPfi (talk) 16:00, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

 * I'll make the edit. Thank you for your input. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:24, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Arranged marriages
The section on arranged marriages is problematic. I don't think it is a scam, and it is not something that happens on your usual travels, but rather something to look out for at home, if your situation is such that it might happen. Checking up your fiancé after having realised what the journey is about and finding you don't want to marry him doesn't make it easy to avoid the marriage. You didn't want to marry him in the first place, and your parents probably did a good job at finding somebody decent, so the problem is to convince your parents that you can have a good life – perhaps one your parents can be proud of – without them arranging you to get married, and to break the engagement without causing too much trouble. The only advice we give here is to keep your passport etc. (which your parents would have taken at latest at the border) call your embassy (which helps only if you are a foreign citizen) or the police (which may or may not be helpful), and the link to British advice.

The issue is important and as it is related to travel we might want to offer some advice. I think it should be on a separate page, making it easier to find, and linked from relevant pages. Perhaps we don't have any experts, so most advice should probably just be linked.

–LPfi (talk) 16:18, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

 * Arranged marriage is definitely not a scam any more than dating is; both situations can be exploited by scammers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:26, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

 * Also the way it is written is problematic:
 * Bear in mind that a lot of families in the aforementioned countries consider it morally acceptable to disrespect and degrade their children.
 * The person to be warned is a member of that family (are there any other scenarios?). We tell them that their parents may consider it acceptable to disrespect and degrade them. If we want to point that out, then talk to them, not to some random reader (families from there → your family). But whom are we to educate them on their parents? For them, it isn't about being disrespected, but about a horrible situation, which may be equally horrible for their loving parents and siblings.

 * I start to wonder whether the person who wrote the advice (I didn't check who it was) really knows the situation, or out of an outsider perspective also otherwise. I am rewriting some of the section, but I think it should get totally rewritten.

 * –LPfi (talk) 08:51, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Early eviction bad advice
The "Early eviction" section claims that some hotels will evict guests for bogus reasons, keeping their money. The section advises paying for one night at a time as a countermeasure to this strategy. This seems highly suspicious. If a guest pays for one night at a time, the hotel could legally end the stay by refusing to book another night, leaving the traveler without a bed for the night. In addition, border guards usually want to see proof of a reservation for the duration of a traveler's stay; a night-by-night reservation would look bad. I'm going to delete this section as it doesn't seem to be providing valuable advice. White 720 (talk) 16:34, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

FYI: $2 to cut a sandwich in half: The outrageous rip-offs targeting tourists in Italy
https://www.cnn.com/travel/outrageous-charges-targeting-tourists-in-italy —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 20:50, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, unfortunately in Italy one may run into all sorts interesting extra fees like unofficial tourist taxes and surprising table rents at restaurants. --Ypsilon (talk) 21:12, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

 * Not only Italy. I ran into something similar in Shanghai. Pashley (talk) 03:52, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Are bribe requests scams?
Here a demand of bribes was added as a scam. I don't think it is. If you cannot avoid paying, the border officials aren't trying to fool you, they are demanding the tip they need to get a decent income (or robbing you, if you want to see it that way).

Such more or less unavoidable bribes are an issue separate from scams and should be treated as such, in relevant other articles. If you cannot avoid paying, you shouldn't feel scammed by doing so, and if you can avoid it, we should give advice on how.

It is a scam only if you can say "look, this is what a visa costs for my nationality, here you are and have a good day" and get through.

–LPfi (talk) 09:38, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, what they're doing is technically illegal, but you have no choice but to pay because they have the power to deny you entry. When it comes to Thailand for instance, I've only been asked for bribes when crossing the land border with Malaysia. Whenever I've flown in and out I've never been asked to pay anything. The dog2 (talk) 14:11, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I think calling the necessary bribe a scam is misleading. What use is this entry with no advice on how to handle the request? I am afraid this page is a long list of stories (where is our page on frustrating experiences? I didn't find it) with little useful advice. It should be cut down and rewritten. –LPfi (talk) 14:21, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Removed it. It was in a subsection of '"Helpful" locals'. The issue is handled in Border crossing. –LPfi (talk) 14:29, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Common scams


text:
Talk:Comoros

For future reference the Project:CIA World Factbook 2002 import can be found at Talk:Comoros/CIA World Factbook 2002 import. -- (WT-en) Huttite 02:36, 28 Mar 2005 (EST)

Why is there a by car/by bus sub-category for the "Get In" section? Unless I'm mistaken, Comoros are a set of 3 islands, competely separated off of Africa. Of course, I could be wrong, and there could be bridges to Madagascar/main African continent.

USA Advisory
I checked a website and it said to reconsider travel to Comoros. Is this true? If so, can some one add a warning or something like that?

Timmy Ciurczak

title: Talk:Comoros


text:
Talk:Concord (California)

Guadalajara Grill
Don't add Guadalajara Grill. You pay a lot of money for bland, poor quality food. If you like Guadalajara Grill this is a sign that you have not sampled nearly enough Mexican food and enjoy spending entirely too much for the privilege of all the sour cream you could ever want and ridiculous glasses of soda. Guadalajara Grill undeservedly enjoys a near monopoly on Mexican food on this end of Clayton Road and I look forward to sampling Cinco de Mayo if it ever finishes "coming soon".

 * To each his own :) The place is always packed, and I'd personally disagree strongly about "bland & poor quality".  Leaving it on this list is fine, and people can visit and make up their own minds. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 16:07, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Concord (California)


text:
Talk:Con Dao

I don't recall seeing any diving when in Con Dao. You may be able to if you take your own equipment etc, or, even bought a boat across from the mainland, but it is a big stretch.

It'd be nice to have a list of the places you can stay on this page. There are only about 3 or 4 and only 1 or 2 places to eat. —The preceding comment was added by 87.194.2.156 (talk • contribs)

 * Diving has just returned to Con Dao after a two year hiatus. The problem with places to eat is that there aren't many in con dao! —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) ScubaG (talk • contribs)

The Islands are developing VERY fast. There are new restaurants opening all the time, we currently recommend four and we will soon be opening the first place you can get real western food ( Short of the $20 burgers at Six Senses). You are welcome to contact me info@dive-condao.com and yes we have brought back diving in a big way www.dive-condao.com.

title: Talk:Con Dao