text:
Talk:Istanbul to New Delhi overland/Part 2

Hmm, this is going to have to be restructured to fit our Project:Manual of style. I'm going to move the content to a talk page for mining... (WT-en) Majnoona 14:16, 7 Jul 2004 (EDT)

I gave it another shot... I just cut the links I made and entered a new one. So, I hope this is more the way you had in mind ?? have a ball... W.

Yeah well, so this is a goner... all is represented in the other part... (WT-en) W

first person content
Description of a trip from Turkey to Indonesia, added with my comments and estimated time necessary. Remark: times indicated are rough estimates, subjective and do not take into account time traveled between places. This information and pictures and stuff can be found on my website
 * More to find on my personal website

Part 2
information based on a trip in 2002 and 2003

this part includes the south east asian countries

go to the first part for the remainder (Turkey to Bangladesh)

Yangon
This very nice kind of laid back capital is a good introduction into the country. The city feels completely different from most other Asian cities because of its 'citylesness'. The snacks are great and fairly cheap. The colonial architecture is still present and there are broad boulevards. I enjoyed the Shwedagon Paya although the entrance fee of 5 $ may be a bit too much. And also just walking around or visiting one of the markets is definitely worth spending your time on. In the evening you can go out to see sporting events or maybe a movie in this one theatre they subtitle in English. 3 days

Bagan
Here you go to see the ruined temples. Very beautiful indeed. I really enjoyed just walking around for a few days in the hot sun, through this awesome landscape dotted with very beautiful pagodas and temples. Definitely a highlight in Myanmar. 1 day

Pakkoku
This very friendly somewhat bigger town two hours up river from Bagan offers a very interesting perspective on the less tourist-oriented Myanmar small-city-life. I enjoyed my day there doing nothing but talk to some people and learn about Myanmar kitchen. 1 day

Mandalay
I do not like cities that much, in average. And this city was said to be the same but different and by far less interesting then Yangon. So I skipped it to a large extent. I did not see much of the city apart from the bus-stations. I must say though that the people at the bus-station were exceptionally friendly, also here. Maybe the place is not so bad, definitely a place that may be good for shopping. The surrounding deserted cities I also skipped because in Myanmar on a 28 day visa you have to choose and eliminate destinations. I did this based on not wanting to see many other temples and monasteries. 0 days

Pwin-Oo-Lwin
This town looked very nice with its colonial archtecture, being a british hill station with pleasant cool temperatures. But the city I thought was quite dull, although for all you waterfall lovers, this one is very nice. If you are in the vicinity, this may be a nice stopover. 1 day

Hsipaw
A travelers hang-out, small and rural but yet wel equipped with the necessities of travelers. The walks in the villages and nature around kept me busy for longer than I thought, really a place to recommend to just hang out. People over there were again quite nice. The waterfall is because of the walk up there worth going out there for. The hot(warm)-water spring is not though. 3 days

Nyaung Shwe (Inle Lake)
Beautiful scenery of all the villages and their gardens on the water, and with all the boat travel around. The town itself though is in my opinion, some disagree, just a tourist rip off town. It is a little more expensive than other places visited and tourists are somewhat more considered to be money-belts. On the other hand, accommodation is cheap and you can do several things out here including trekking (do it yourself), boat-trips to nearby villages (organize yourself), ... but here you will definitely see that most of your interaction with the locals is about money. I especially enjoyed the little villages outside the town. I was also briefly in Shwe Nyaung and Taunggi. Taunggi is quite interesting as a day trip from Nyaung Shwe I believe. The market is very big and you can find all other stuff like cheap Myanmar food or a payable draught beer out here. 2 days

Bago
Not much of interest here unless you want to pay up 10 FEC to visit some of the pagodas. The town is friendly though. If it is very short, like for me, a stopover here is not the worst that can happen. 0 days

Thaton
There may be little to actually do around here, the town is very friendly. Here you are for the atmosphere. Just sit around for a day I think is the thing to do here. Because of the colonial mansions and nice environment it can be a worthwhile few days out of Yangon. I visited Hpa-An as a day trip from Thaton. It was ok but to be honest, except for the trip getting there it did not offer me much. I should have done the trip to Mawlamyine instead. But that would have taken up a bit more time, a thing I didn't have any more on the end of my trip. 2 days

Bangkok
This big city, center of South East Asia, will show it all. From big temples to elephants performing in the streets, from the very big weekend-market to Thai-boxing, from Kao San Road to the traffic madness. For me Bangkok was a highly polluted and diverse city and I will end up there, probably, again in the future due to its center position in traveling South East Asia. 2 days

Sukothai
The oldest city in Thailand. Of course, that means a lot of ruins, though in a very pleasant setting these ruins are very lovely. According to other tourists they resemble in a way the ruins of Ayuthaya and consequently are maybe not worth it if you have seen those already. 1 day

Chiang Mai
Chiang Mai is a touristy developed cultural and economical center in the north of Thailand. It offers some trekking and cultural trips. For me the market was the main attraction, specially good for Thai silk. 1 day + trek (few days)

Mae Hong Song
This mountain city quite near to the border with Burma has not that much to offer in my opionion besides a trip to the long neck Karen people and some trekking in the very nice jungle you can find over there 0 days

Chiang Rai
In many ways this is an ugly city to me which offers only some possibilities for trekking in a nice jungle to see some of the minority people living there. There is a nice market but it is less interesting than the one in Chiang Mai. 0 days

Chiang Saen and the golden triangle
The city itself has some cultural historical significance as can be witnessed by the ruins. For me the major attraction was the three countries that meet each other. Unfortunately there is a lot of tourism to spoil most of the fascination brought to you by this area. 1 day

Chiang Khong
This border town is definitely preferable over its Laotian counterpart Huay Xai. It is cheaper and offers a lot more possibilities to eat or to go on the Internet. Head out early in the morning around 7 and you'll be in time to catch the first bus or boat out of Huay Xai at around 8 AM. 0 days (pass through)

Huay Xai
This is an ugly border-town, try not to have to spent time there I would say. The 'I will get your money' atmosphere and the lack of anything worth visiting or doing there makes that you head to there early in the morning to be sure you can take the boat or truck out, around 8 AM. 0 days (pass through)

Luang Nam Tha
This place in the north of Laos is good for trekking. The little city itself is pleasant but in my opinion nothing more. The trekking here involve jungle and minority villages. 1 day + trek (few days)

Muang Sing
Probably even better to do trekking into jungle and to see minority villages is to head out to Muang Sing. This is a very little sleepy town with as major downfall that the villagers know how to sell their handmade items and drugs. Be aware of scams with opium, they will sell and tell and you will loose a lot of money. 1 day

Nong Khiaw - Mong Noi
Laying on the river banks these family run guest houses in these small towns offer only a nice relaxing atmosphere. Having been there, I would not suggest to miss out on it though. It gives you the feeling of being really out there. Mong Noi is an hour upriver from Nong Khiaw, after 10 there is no electricity. 1 day

Luang Prabang
As a very pleasant colonial town it offers very great food from all over the world. There should even be some great trekking there, in vast jungle meeting minority people that haven't seen much tourists. The small waterfall is maybe worth the visit too. 2 days

Vang Vieng
The Mecca of laying back. You can just fill your day swimming in the river, going out to visit some cave or just lying in a tube floating on the river while you see the enchanting scenery drift by. In the evening you will be able to eat you international dinners, drinking fruit shakes and cocktails, watching some very nice movies together with all the other relaxing travelers. For most this is the best place in Laos, for me it is good for a day or two. 2 days

Vientiane
The capital of Laos is certainly not the most beautiful of the three 'Indochine'-capitals. Although some people appear to like this city, for me a quick run through sufficed. 1 day

Si Pan Don
Literally translated, 4000 islands is ‘same same but different’ to Mong Noi. This broad part of the Mekong river, just before entering into Cambodia, is dotted with little and very little islands. It is definitely worth walking around in the area because of its relaxing atmosphere. Also, most people enjoy the waterfall and the Mekong river. The evenings are very calm and enjoyable in the family run guest houses. 2 days

Bolaven (Tadlo)
This area is probably very nice, especially because it is different from the rest you will find in Laos. I saw, for example, cotton grow. But the place to stay is everything but interesting. This is definitely the place I would not visit if I were you. 0 days

Cau Treo
Border towns, ugly as they come, this is again one. Unlike promised, I had to stay there for one day, unfortunately. 0 day (pass through)

Hanoi
To see Hanoi waking up was mind blowing. And although it has everything every other big city does, there is this atmosphere to it that gives it this warm feeling, at least it did to me. Maybe because of the lakes and parks, or because of the life on the street starting early in the morning with many people playing badminton there. This was definitely the most beautiful and nice capital I saw in South East Asia. The traffic is still less car-oriented and is bustling with bicycles. Especially this is just great to take part in. 2 days

CatBa
The island near Halong Bay may not offer the nicest town. A sleep on the boat right in the middle of this extraordinary landscape on the water is recomended by many. This is also the case for the 12 km trek on the island. It offers a very beautiful piece of jungle. Try to combine both I would say, the overnight on the boat as well as the trek, preferably with only very few people. 3 day tour

Sapa
Superb views on mountains and surrounding valleys together with the minority villages that live in these mountains makes Sapa the most recommended place of Vietnam. It offers treks to these villages and natural scenery. Consider going there by train during the week (starting Monday or so) as tours operate from Thursday to Sunday. 3 days

Hue + Demilitarized Zone
Hue was a very important city throughout ancient Vietnamese history. A visit to the Tomb of Tu Duc was worth the expensive visit, but I didn't do any other tombs, pagoda's or whatever. The purple city I did not visit because most people considered it not worth a visit and because of the resemblances to the tombs in architecture. So if you are not really into these kind of things you might want to skip it. The city itself I liked but I do not consider it vital to see if you are in Vietnam. The DMZ tour I did find very interesting though, it shows Hamburger Hill, Khe San, the Ho Chi Mihn trail and some other war historical sites going all the way between the tunnels on the coast line to the military bases on the Lao border along the river dividing north and south Vietnam. 2 days

Hoi An
If you talk about a nice little feel-good town... than this is it. Known for its inexpensive tailor made clothes (not very well cut I might add) and its limited influence of modern times, this town offers you a good time just walking the streets. And there is even the possibility to go out and have a swim in the ocean on a fairly ok sandy beach with moderate waves. 2 days

Nha Trang
Now the city of pick-pockets and millions of people on the beach I would have skipped if possible. It is definitely not the worst town you could be in but I prefer to spent my time elsewhere. It is a good place for all you party animals that just love spending money on beer, weed and dig on hanging around the beach. 0 days

Dalat
The town itself is not worth a visit in my opinion. The people who liked Dalat have all one thing in common, they did something particular there, like rock-climbing for example, or hiring a guide and motorbike to go around the central highlands area. Especially the latter has been recommended to me big time. 0 days

Saigon
For me not nearly as nice as Hanoi but nevertheless Saigon has it all. Here you will find the most western influenced character in all of Vietnam. Communism is only visible marginally. The millions of motorbikes in the streets give it that overcrowded feeling. I would not choose to stay too long in this dirty but modern world city. The War Remnants Museum is one of the few 'must have seen' museums in Asia. From out of Saigon you can visit the tunnels of Cu Chi, fighting tunnels during the Vietnam War, for me also worth the visit. 1 day

Mekong Delta
Brilliant were the days spent in the Mekong Delta, cruising down the Delta in little boats watching the daily life on the floating markets, visiting the swamps used by the Vietcong during the War in the Rung Tram forest, climbing Sam mountain for sunset with views over the border with Cambodia, ... and it is possible and recommended by me to cross the border with Cambodia here with a boat on the Mekong. 3 days

Phnom Penh
Richly decorated temples, overwhelmingly beautiful colonial houses mixed with mother and child sleeping on the streets. Phnom Penh is filled with poor people making it dangerous to wonder the streets in dark places at night. Besides visiting temples, war history is a major attraction. Most people visit the killing fields of Choeng Ek together with the torture chambers of prison 21. Although not appreciated by everyone, for me these were interesting. 3 days

Sihanoukville
And in Cambodia there are beaches, not plenty but fairly deserted. In the south, Sihanoukville offers four sand beaches and quite clear water. The surroundings offer friendly people and very beautiful scenery, an open landscape dotted with trees. If you plan to head in or out of Cambodia by sea, this is the only port where you will be able to do so. 1 day

Siem Reap (Angkor Wat)
The town is visited almost primarily for its proximity to Angkor Wat. Therefore, in the evening you will find many tourists here. The evenings you have to spent there are more than enough in my opinion to explore the town fully. The Khmer temples of Angkor Wat, build between one of the 7 wonders of the modern times. This 9th to 13th century building complex consists off over maybe 100 temples. It was a big center during the old days, both cultural as political. Angkor Thom, the square city with the Bayon in the center. If you have only one day to spare, you should leave out all other temples, these are the ‘must must have seen's’. A three day visit on a leisurely pace makes sure you see them all at least ones. 3 days
 * Bayon, a temple, at first site nothing special but that changes as you go in...
 * Angkor Wat, the biggest Buddhist temple in the world and maybe mausoleum
 * Preah Khan, powerfull jungletrees on and in the temple ruins. For most people this is the most unforgettable part of the complex.

Battambang
On the banks of the Sangker River enriched with some nice colonial houses, this city is very pleasant but there is not much to do around there that you won't find in more interesting places. It is the second most large city and walking around there gives you an idea about city life in Cambodia, it is not like Phnom Penh. 1 day

Penang
Penang-Georgetown is again a very nice colonial town with some remarkable colonial buildings and an interesting Indian and Chinese area. Also again, it is a port towards Indonesia and it is the last major town before entering Thailand. If not for this location would not bother going out there. 1 day

Kuala Lumpur
I have heard many good things about the atmosphere in KL, the capital of Malaysia. Due to a mix up with Malaysian Airlines I wasn't able to visit it but some people convinced me that because of the colonial buildings as well as the Chinese and Indian areas it is well worth doing so. KL also offers everything a modern capital has the offer from big chopping malls to skyscrapers. The diversity probably makes this city rather interesting 1 day

Melaka
A nice colonial town with some interesting buildings, and also a port towards Indonesia. It is a very nice town to just walk around for a day because of the mix in colonial influences. But if it were not for the port to Indonesia I would not bother going out there. 1 day

Dumai
Talking of ugly bordertowns with bordertown people lying their boots off. Well, this is it. You don't want to end up here for more than a few hours. 0 days (pass through from Melakka)

Medan
Visited only briefly because of the transit towards Malaysia. I don't know much about the city but it didn't give me any good feelings so I was glad not to have to spent to much time over there. 0 days (pass through form Penang)

Berestagi
A very nice little mountain town. Berestagi is especially worth the visit for the surrounding sites although the town itself also has a good feel to it. You will be able to walk in the jungle or hike up the mountain and descend in some volcano craters. If you are into hot water springs, they are there but unfortunately re-build as a swimming-pool, so don't expect to much. 2 days

Ketambe (Leusser National Park)
For treks into the jungle and to explore the wildlife this is a very nice alternative to Bukit Lawang known for its fauna and flora. Here you will be able to see the orangutan in the wild if your guide finds one. I also saw several other species making it a very interesting experience. Superb was also the warm water spring in the middle of the jungle where you will enjoy the rapid alternation between very hot and very cold water while you are looking up a wall of trees on the nearby mountain. 2 day trek

Bukittinggi (+ Harau & Maninjau)
This is a relaxing town in the hills. Because of some caves used during the war, a fort and some views over the surrounding it is easy to hang out there for at least a day. It is also interesting for its location in the proximity to the Harrau Valley and to Lake Maninjau. Harau Valley has some waterfalls to offer, high ones but very certainly not the most spectacular because of the little water involved. Danau Maninjau is an impressive crater lake and the road towards it are even more so. 2 days

Parapat (Danau Toba in Palua Samosir)
One of the main touristy highlights of Sumatra is this Lake. Only when there is not much of tourism there, then there is not much reason to stay in this ultra relaxed place, unless you are either recovering from sickness or if you are with your girl/boy friend longing to just look at each other for a few days. The town of Parapat near to it is again nothing much. 0 days

Jakarta
I can imagine that this can be an interesting city, but so far I heard only bad things about it. Just riding through it with a bus even strengthens the opinion that it will take quite some time to appreciate this overcrowded busy and dirty city. 0 days

Pangandaran
A touristy beach resort that grew out of a fishing village. It is a national park with some jungle but mainly it is a place to swim a little and relax. I would not have gone there. 0 days

Bogor
Probably this is a very nice city known for its botanical garden. For me it didn't offer me much besides it being a very easy gateway to Jakarta so that I did not need to stay out in Jakarta for the night to catch my flight. Some Dutch colonial buildings are maybe worth a look, and there is some, possibly interesting, forest with wildlife quite near. 0 days

Yogjakarta
The cultural highlight of Java is Yogjakarta, a busy town without high skyline. It can be a nice town to wander around as it has several things to visit and it is interesting as a hub towards sites like Borobudur and Pramanbanan. The latter, Pramanbanan, is the biggest Hindu temple complex in Java (9th century) and I thought it was well worth the visit. This is also true for the Borobudur, built some years earlier, and together with Bagan in Myanmar and Angkor in Cambodia one of the greatest Buddhist monuments in South-East Asia. 2 days

Solo (Candi Sukuh)
Nearby Solo there is a small Hindu temple that is similar to what you'd expect in Inca culture. But especially the surrounding nature was worth the walk, through the forest, passing through villages, crossing over rivers between mountains and valleys. 1 day

Wonosobo (Dieng Plateau)
I don't know about the town of Wonosobo but the Dieng plateau an hour up-mountain is a scenic area that shows some boiling mud pools and a small colored lake. There are some very old temple ruins too, older than Borobudur and Pramanbanan, but far less spectacular. 0 days

Probolingo (Gunung Bromo)
The town itself is off the beaten track and there is a reason for it, there is nothing to see or do there. But the volcano 'Bromo' is exquisite. For me this volcano looks as if it is taken out of the earliest times when dinosaurs ruled the world. Watching sunrise there was something to never forget. 1 day

Madura (Sumenep & Pamekasan)
This island in the north of Java is not often visited by tourists because there is not so much to do or see. The cities of Sumenep and Pamekasan did not leave any sound impressions on me. The one reason besides maybe the bull fights you should get out there for is to see the difference money can make in the lifestyle as they are considerably more rich in Madura 0 days

Alas Purwo National Park
A natural resort completely isolated from the outside world. Here the ocean is so rough you'd better not swim but surfing is possible quit near (Plengkung), and there is wildlife that you're not likely to see unless you head to the feeding grounds (Sadengan). The sea at trianggulasi is very romantic as the white sandy beaches are often completely deserted. 0 days

Banjuwangi (Gunung Kawa Ijen)
This little town again was not that special but it was the gateway to the Ijen crater. People dig in the crater for sulphur and you can hike up the crater and descent in it with them while they are working. The sulphur-gas coming out of the crater-holes and the clear bleu lake in the crater were again unforgettable. But things have changed around here I am told. 0 days

Denpasar
The capital of the Bali district is maybe worth visiting briefly. I didn't, so for me it was just a stop between Gillimanuk on the border with Java, and Ubud. The people ripped us off big time over here and were all but friendly. 0 days

Ubud
Ubud is a town in the hills of Bali. It is a nice place to get into the cultural life of the island. There is a Monkey Forrest Temple and you can do some nice little walks in the area to for example Goa Gajah, some ruins. Some museums show Balinese art and there are traditional performances almost every night. I was lucky enough to witness a Hindu burial. 2 days

Kediri (Tanah Lot)
Just a glimpse of the ocean here, because besides the little temple on the rock at the beach there is not much to see or do. Also the town Kediri is not worth going out there for. 0 days

Klungkung
This town with friendly people has nothing to offer in my opinion. 0 days

Padangbai
If you want to take the ferry to Lombok, then this is the place you will do that. Besides the ferry and the many fish restaurants there is only one thing to do here. The bat-cave some few kilometers out of town is used for the burial-ceremony. More interesting even are the billions of bats flying out at sunset. 0 days

Danau Bratan
It was a nice walk around the lake but in itself the temple didn't overwhelm me. 0 days

Lovina
Black sand beaches and probably everything you can do at black sand beaches like going out for dolphin watching, snorkeling, diving, ... but I didn't do any of that... We went out to see a waterfall and a Buddhist monastery on a hill. The latter was nice, the first really crap. 0 days


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Talk:Istria county

Is this page really necessary? Can't we just use Istria? (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:41, 13 September 2006 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Istria county


text:
Talk:Itaúnas

Template mismatch
Here we have a town with a park template. I think the park stuff can be consolidated into one paragraph or section, and the rest of the article should focus on the town itself. (WT-en) Texugo 11:56, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Itaúnas


text:
Talk:Italian phrasebook

Untitled
How do you say "nice to meet you" in Italian?
 * Piacere di conoscerla (formal) Piacere di conoscerti (informal)

Learn Italian Pod
Hey, so I've been trying to study a little Italian every day using podcasts from http://learnitalianpod.com. It's a great resource. So today I took a look at their newest entry, a phrasebook. They've based it on this article! I think this is a perfect example of the power of the Creative Commons and free content in general!

Thank you Jane and Massimo ! -- (WT-en) Mark 03:35, 25 May 2006 (EDT)

How do you pronounce 'j'?
Is it as in 'jug' or the French 'j'aim' and the English 'pleasure'? No, it's more like a normal i: ex. junior=iunior, Juventus=Iuventus.

"Learning more" section
I think that section is just an invitation for spamming wars, such as just started. I am simply going to delete the section. Anyone who wants to find audio instruction is unlikely to have too much trouble web searching, and in any case, no article is supposed to have an external links section, which is effectively what that section is. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 23:01, 7 November 2011 (EST)

"Per favore" vs. "Per piacere"
Are there regional differences in usage? I've spent most of my time in Italy in Tuscany and Umbria, though I've also visited Lazio and Campagna. I found that people used per piacere all the time and not per favore. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:57, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
 * My Italian is very weak, but I can't find any evidence of strong regional variation. Some relevant online discussions can be found here, here, and here. Texugo (talk) 20:08, 7 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Ikan Kekek I think that they are the same. There is also another one: per cortesia, that is more polite. -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 15:07, 29 September 2014 (UTC)-- Lkcl it  (Talk) 15:08, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Some questions
I have some comment about the information in this page: Could someone check my last edit: I'm not able to correct the pronunciation. -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 15:26, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Where are the restrooms? I think that it's better to translate it with Dove sono i bagni pubblici rather than Dove sono i gabinetti?
 * 2) We usually translate map as Mappa or cartina, Carta only in followed by an adj. like Carta stradale. (Potete mostrarmelo sulla carta?)
 * 3) When you write May I have some____ does it mean that I have only to complete the sentence with the following text? If yes articles should be removed.

 * OK, first, "restrooms" are not "bagni pubblici." Those would translate as "public baths." "Restrooms" are toilets - that is, gabinetti. But perhaps the English should be made clearer by substituting "toilets" for "restrooms." Second: Please go ahead and translate "map" as you see fit. However, "carta stradale" may be the term tourists most often see on the cover of maps they might buy. Third: Yes, your interpretation is correct, so do remove the articles. I'll try to remember to check pronunciations when I have a chance, but Italian is so easy and straightforward to pronounce that pseudo-pronunciations risk making things more difficult instead of clarifying. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:24, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Ikan Kekek I know that literally restrooms means gabinetti, but it doesn't sound very well: I have never heard someone asking "Dove sono i gabinetti": With bagno, we also translate bathroom, toilets. See there. I think that to ask "Dove sono i bagni pubblici" is the better solution (try to search bagni pubblici on google). -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 15:35, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Are there regional differences, or has the word "gabinetto" become rude since the 1990s or so? I always understood "il bagno" as meaning "the bathroom (where you have a bath)," not "the toilet," and never would have asked for "il bagno" in a trattoria. I'm admittedly not fluent in Italian, but my parents were (my mother was a high-paid translator, and my parents were taken for fiorentini, to the great amusement of bolognesi, when they visited Bologna), from the year they spent living in Florence in 1963, and they always used "dov'è il gabinetto" (I did, too, in the 1990s, and no-one ever corrected me, whereas I was corrected for plenty of other things I said). Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:49, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
 * All that said, you're a native speaker, so correct this phrasebook any way you think best. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:56, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Ikan Kekek i'm not saying you are wrong, in my opinion both are correct forms (and if we look only the definition, gabinetti is the best solution), but nowadays the most common is bagno (generalized for all the place with a wc). I don't know if there are regional differences and I can't know if it has become rude since 90s (I was too young and I can't remember). Can we write both the possibilities? If think that for a tourist know that often "Bagni pubblici" means toilet and not lido or bath will be useful. -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 20:30, 2 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Of course! As I said, you are a native speaker, so edit as you think best. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:48, 2 October 2014 (UTC)

Adjectives
Should we mention in the "Grammar" section that adjectives have to agree by gender and number and give a couple of examples, and should we mention that there are no proper adjectives in Italian - all are by default lowercase? Maybe that's more advanced than readers of this phrasebook need to know? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:18, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * I think that adjectival agreement is something worth mentioning at Romance language phrasebooks as it's likely to be confusing but it's very easy to understand. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 21:26, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's not really that complicated to understand. How's this?

In Italian, adjectives must agree in gender and number with the noun or pronoun they modify. So for example, the word for "child" in Italian is "bambino" (masculine), plural "bambini", or "bambina" (feminine), plural "bambine". If you want to say "a small boy", you'd use "un piccolo bambino", whereas two small boys would be "due piccoli bambini", a small girl would be "una piccola bambina" and two small girls would be "due piccole bambine". Also, Italian has no proper adjectives, so, for example, "Italian" is always represented in lowercase in Italian, but again must agree in gender and number: "un bambino italiano"; "una bambina italiana".

 * I think this could probably be improved upon, and something should probably be said about word order, but I get that more from speaking than from any theoretical understanding. I'd say the default is for the adjective to follow the noun, but there are exceptions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:23, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Works for me. And especially for anyone with a passing familiarity with French, Portuguese, Romanian, Spanish, etc. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 00:49, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, they're all basically similar in matters of adjective agreement, to my knowledge. I'll wait a few days to see if anyone comes up with something better, and if not, I'll post this, knowing that posting it might stimulate further improvement. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:09, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Added, with very slight edits. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:17, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Possessives
Whereas I found adjectives simple in Italian, especially because I had studied 1 year of Latin and 3.5 years of French before my first trip to Italy, possessives were a bit awkward at first, as they are formed differently from any other Romance language I know, in that the article is used along with the genitive pronoun: "I suoi libri", "La tua macchina", "Il mio flauto", etc. Would someone like to write up a usage note about possessives? If not, I'll try my hand at it when I'm not so sleepy. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:28, 13 May 2017 (UTC)

 * I tried my hand at these. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:34, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Vowel "o"
Can we make it "o" as in "oh"? Right now, an American reading this who doesn't know British English will be likely to get it wrong, as "order" is pronounced "awrder" by a large number of Americans, and "off" is "awff". I think at least both British and American native speakers pronounce the vowel in "oh" without an "aw" sound (Kiwis are probably out of luck here, as their "oh" may be some way toward "oi", if I remember correctly). The big problem for English speakers is eliminating the "w" or "oo" sound from their "o" in Italian - particularly for Brits, who tend to have a "w" sound at the end of "italiano". So if they're pronouncing "oh" as if it were spelling "ohw", that's a problem. What do you all think? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:41, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

"eu"
Can we do better than to analogize it to Spanish? "Eu" is "eyoo" Europa in Italian is "eyoo-ROH-pah". Any feedback on this? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:46, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

 * My suggestion would be "eu" as in "hey you". What do you think? If I don't get replies to these threads very soon, I will plunge forward and make changes on my own. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:32, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Word for "noodles"
A translation of tagliatelle is given, but I think that's wrong and that the generic word for noodles is simply "pasta". Tagliatelle are a particular type of pasta. Anyone disagree? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:33, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Edits
I plunged forward and made these edits, addressing the previous few threads that as yet got no response. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:22, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Pullman
When I was in Italy in the 1990s, the most commonly used word for bus seemed to be "pullman". If that's still a commonly used word, we should include it. In the U.S., the Pullman porters worked on trains, so the Italian meaning for the word does not come naturally to Americans. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:51, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Ikan Kekek I actually can't say which is the most common word, but I use "autobus and pullman". According to "Treccani" a pullman is more luxurious than an "autobus or a corriera". -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 21:28, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I didn't know about that shade of difference in meaning. I will add the word to the phrasebook later, unless someone else beats me to it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:39, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

2nd person plural
Why is this form used so much in the phrasebook? Except when actually speaking to more than one person, isn't it much more polite to use the "Lei" form? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:16, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

 * Reposted from dotm: My understanding is that using those to address a single person is very patronizing - my parents told me that in the 60s, that was the form people used for their maids instead of "tu", and of course they used the "Lei" form for everyone else except their family members and closest friends. Things had loosened up considerably by the 90s, when I found that fellow students and other people around my age (then in my mid 20s) just about automatically used "tu" among themselves, but when speaking with service personnel, "Lei" was used. My feeling is that all commands and requests in the phrasebook except those expressly for more than one person should be in the "Lei" (3rd person, and often conditional) form. So "potrebbe" instead of "potete" and so on. But I would really like a native speaker or at least someone with more recent and extensive experience in Italy to address this point. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:17, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Ikan Kekek I agree with you: "lei" form is the correct polite version, somewhere, expecialy in the Southern part of Italy also "voi" form is used, but is an arcaic form. -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 21:12, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Revisions
I made fairly extensive revisions, but I'm not a native speaker, so please check these. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:50, 11 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Ikan Kekek You have made a great job. I'll only suggest few corrections:
 * "Si accetta" in "Si accettano" because dollari/sterline/carte di credito are plural.
 * "Ci sono qualcune stuzzicherie" sounds very bad -> "Ci sono degli stuzzichini"?
 * " Lei ha questo della mia taglia?" -> i think that "lei" is not necessary, you may change in "(lei) Ha questo della mia taglia?". " Lei può spedirlo (all'estero)? " "Lei potrebbe mostrarmelo sulla mappa/carta stradale? " "Lei può suggerirmi un altro hotel? " the same.
 * " Pulisca la mia camera, per favore" sounds a little bit imperative, perhaps "Potrebbe pulire la mia camera, per favore" is better.
 * I haven't had much time so there may be other mistakes and I can't help with the pronunciation. -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 18:56, 11 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Much appreciated. I'll make the changes. Please feel free to make any edits - I give you blanket approval in advance, as you're a native speaker. Just post here after the fact if you think anything needs more of an explanation than you can put in an edit summary. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:09, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek Finally have found some time to read the article, here some advises: tha If you don't understand something (i know my English is not always excellent) or you want more explanations pleas tell me. -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 19:17, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * (Noun) "Esso" is gramatically correct, but it is rarely used.
 * "Non c'è problema or Nessun problema (non cheh proh-BLEH-mah)" you have missed a pronunciation
 * "Conosco solo alcune parole in italiano." yes, it is correct but perhaps "Conosco solo poche parole in italiano." sounds better
 * Watch for the:
 * "Guardi il _____. (formal)(GWAHR-dee eel...) / Guarda il _____. (informal)(GWAHR-dah eel...)" is not correct because means look at ...
 * "Cerchi il (formal)(CHEHR-kee eel...) / Cerca il _____. (informal)(CHEHR-kah eel...)" means look for
 * if you mean beware sth I'll translare "Presti attenzione al .... (formal)/ Attento al ....! (informal))
 * Please take me to_____. and Take me to _____, please.  are the same? I can't notice the difference
 * fixed-price meal : in many restaurant during the week (from monday to friday but not on holydays) there is the "pranzo di lavoro" that is a fixed-price meal. As the name suggest workers usually go there to have lunch but everyone can have it. I don't know if you want to add also this expression.
 * Do you serve alcohol? : Servite alcolici? pronunciation missed

 * Thanks, Lkcl_it. I would love for you to edit anything in the article that needs to be corrected. I don't use "esso"; it was in the phrasebook long before I tried editing it. That's actually true of just about everything you mention here. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:23, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

 * By the way, wouldn't "Si serva alcolici?" be more polite than "Servite alcolici"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:12, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
 * No, because "Si serva alcolici?" has a different meaning, or, better, has no meaning: I would probably understand "Pleas bring us some alcoholics", but also that the one who is speaking isn't a native speaker. -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 15:45, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
 * So "alcolici" has different meanings. I'd never ask this question myself, anyway. But what about "bevande alcolici"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:00, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
 * The problem isn't "alcolici", but "si serva". Probably I've misundestood you. If you meant "Si servono alcolici?" that is correct but i think that "Si servono alcolici" or "Servite alcolici" are more or less the same (you can choose one or both of them). Also "alcolici" or "bevande alcoliche" are the same. -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 08:07, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Right, "si servono" because "alcolici" is plural. I'm trying to avoid the "voi" forms, which I thought you had agreed was a good idea. For what it's worth, I always saw the phrase "bevande alcoliche" and would have simply asked "C'e un elenco di vini qui?" or something similar, as I wasn't going to drink liquor with my meal (though occasionally a grappa afterwards), and in bars, it's obvious that liquor is served. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:28, 2 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agreed about the "voi form" when it is used as a polite form (Mi può portate dell'acqua instead Mi potete portare dell'acqua), but this case "Servite alcolici" is a little bit different. I can't explain clearly, but I'll try to find an explanation: voi is refering to the workers (the restaurant/bar staff). Perhaps there are other explanations, but that's the first that I've thought. -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 12:42, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Il menù
I don't think this means "the menu". In my experience, the English word "menu" translates to "la carta", and "il menù" means a prix fixe menu. Am I right, or was that only true in the time (1990s) and places (well, throughout Tuscany, Umbria, and also in Lazio and Campagna) I went to? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:10, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I understand very basic Italian (self-studied from a "Tourist's Italian" book :)) and I too would probably ask for "la carta, per favore" or something like that. However I just looked at articles of some random Italian destinations, and clicked on the websites in the Eat sections. (As a side note more than half of those links lead to discontinued websites). All restaurants I found did call it "menù". Or is it that the physical menu is called "la carta" and the content is known as "menù"? Perhaps native speakers could help with this? --ϒpsilon (talk) 10:03, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Ikan Kekek I'm sorry to be late, btw when I go to a restaurant I ask for a "Menu" and not for "la carta", I would (perhaps) only use "la carta dei vini", but also in this case "la lista dei vini" sounds better. Like in other languages, there may be regional differences, I'm from Lombardy. -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 08:19, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Interesting, and thanks for responding. The word does in any case require an accent, though, doesn't it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:55, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Both forms are accepted: if you use menu is because you are considering the word as a french word used in italian, if you use menù you are considering the word as part of Italian vocabulary. Perhaps in restaurants is more common to find "menù", but I think that this is not a tourist problem. -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 11:34, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
 * OK. Thanks for the information. If you see any remaining problems or things that are lacking and should be in this phrasebook, please correct/add. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:13, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "s"
Re: this edit:

If "s" is pronounced like English "z" between vowels only in Northern Italy, how are the words "casa" and "cassa" distinguished in Southern Italy? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:01, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Italian phrasebook


text:
Talk:Italy

Love of argument?
Should we mention that many Italians love the art of the discuzzione (argument)? This makes them on the whole different from some nationalities. Of course this is a generalization, but I found that Italians are more argumentative than New Yorkers, and probably even more good-natured about it. Recreational arguments with friends are common and can be quite vociferous while remaining entirely friendly. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:58, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Go for it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:03, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

 * I appreciate your vote of confidence, but I think I'd like to wait for more reactions before plunging forward on this. I'm only one person, and I don't want to presume my reaction is a general truth if it might not be. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:28, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Italy off the beaten track
https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2022/apr/09/hidden-italy-where-to-stay-and-what-to-do-off-the-beaten-track —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 12:56, 13 April 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:11, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Panorama of Trevi fountain 2015.jpg

The unification, the Pope and Mussolini
In we say (latter half of the last paragraph):
 * "In 1866, King Victor Emmanuel II annexed Venice. In 1870, shortly after France abandoned it (because they were preoccupied in a war against Prussia that would lead to German unification by 1871), Italy's capital was moved to Rome. The Pope lost much of his influence, with his political authority now being confined to the Vatican City, itself a result of a political compromise between the Pope and Benito Mussolini in the 1920s."

This is unnecessarily convoluted, but one thing seems to be really confused: if the Vatican City was a result of a 1920s compromise, how could the Pope's authority get confined to there in 1870 (or shortly after)?

There are also other confusing passages, such as the March on Rome in 1922 leading to an alliance between the King and Mussolini (in the next section; was the King forced to? did he approve of the coup?).

–LPfi (talk) 09:47, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree. The history section is very long, and could be trimmed back as the confusing parts are removed. Ground Zero (talk) 10:11, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
 * +1. Wikivoyage is not an encyclopedia, encyclopaedia or an encyclopædia. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 10:18, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

 * If I'm not forgetting some important history, the status of the Vatican can be explained very simply. Italy gave up much of what's now the French Riviera in exchange for French withdrawal from and recognition of Italian control over Rome, not including the pope's quarters, which were formally recognized as the independent Vatican City by Mussolini. And I do think some brief explanation of the Vatican's status like the foregoing should probably be included, as it's the type of thing a lot of travelers would be confused about. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:04, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Sovereign Military Order of Malta
I find the text about it in "Regions" confusing. Per Sovereign Military Order of Malta, its territories in Rome are limited to its two headquarters: "Its two headquarters buildings in Rome enjoy extraterritoriality, similar to embassies, and it maintains embassies in other countries. The Agenzia Nazionale Stampa Associata news agency has called it "the smallest sovereign state in the world". The three principal officers are counted as citizens." This appears to me to be a bit of encyclopedic trivia that won't be of interest to like 99.99% of travelers, so can we delete it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:27, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

 * I decided to plunge forward and delete the coverage. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:15, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Does any entity actually recognize it as a country? If so, I guess it can be a really niche technicality (that interests border enthusiasts like me and probably 99% of WonderWhy + RealLifeLore viewers, but maybe not Wikivoyage readers), but if it is not, then I agree with deleting it. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 07:21, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 * From the Wikipedia article I linked above: "The Order maintains diplomatic relations with 113 states,[10] enters into treaties, and issues its own passports, coins and postage stamps." And from List of diplomatic missions of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta:

 * "The Sovereign Military Order of Malta is a sovereign entity of international law that does not have its own territory. It is a permanent non-state observer to the United Nations. It maintains diplomatic relations with over 100 countries.[1] Some of these are hosts of Order of Malta Embassies."Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:35, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if it doesn't hold territory, then it's not a sovereign state. I agree with your removal. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 07:49, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Italy


text:
Talk:Ithaca (New York)

This is a great page. Really nice work. I'd love to feature it on the Main Page, if we could maybe get some more lodging listings and clear out that boilerplate at the end. Fabuloso! What a showcase guide! -- (WT-en) Evan 23:02, 17 Nov 2003 (PST)

Drink
Some information about Ithaca Beer and Finger Lakes wines really should be added to the currently empty "Drink" section.

Please Project:Plunge forward! Sounds like you at least know a little bit about them, so add the info! (WT-en) Majnoona 23:42, 7 Oct 2004 (EDT)

Disambig?
Someone said something about Ithaca and Syracuse. I thought "Is that Ithaca in Greece or New York?". (Syracuse is in Sicily but was a Greek city.) Should we make a disambiguation page?

 * I don't know; isn't the Greek isle generally spelled "Ithaka" and the Sicilian city spelled "Siracusa"?

 * Since our naming convention is to the use the most common English spelling of a placename, and the city in New York is named after the island in Greece, there is need to disambigate them as Ithaca (New York) and Ithaca (Greece). - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 13:03, 10 July 2006 (EDT)

Usable, not Guide (yet)
Sorry, but this isn't quite up to Guide standards yet. It's certainly good work, but there are a large number of entries that are missing contact information, business hours, etc. Getting there, though. If somebody is interested in seeing the article get that accolade, go for it! With the content in good shape, it should be just a matter of adding stuff you can find in a phone book. (Try adding a good photo or two while you're at it.) -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 08:55, 24 May 2006 (EDT)

 * I agree. At VERY least there should be a comprehensive review of the wineries in the area, as Cayuga Lake (and adjoining Seneca lake). I can think of a half dozen off the top of my head. The gorges of Ithaca certainly deserve their own section, as well as pictures - there are many high resolution photos of the Ithaca gorges in the public domain. Additionally, I'm adding several restaurants that I personally have been to and should be added to that list. A valuable resource for hours and addresses is the http://dining.14850 [dot] com/ website. By the way, I'm going to either remove the mention of citibucks or add an explaination to the wiki. --(WT-en) Edw28 12:37, 10 July 2006 (EDT)

Real estate
I've rolled back most of the information about real estate and relocating; I think it's not really useful for the typical traveler. --(WT-en) Evan 16:57, 29 November 2006 (EST)

Chapter house
The Chapter House burned down! It's very sad. I removed this section from the Drinks guide. See http://www.ithacajournal.com/story/news/local/2015/04/14/chapter-house-history/25772475/ 24.38.3.30 02:20, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Powers (talk) 21:10, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ithaca (New York)


text:
Talk:Itinerary A

You might want to pick a more informative name for this... "One day in Nara", etc. And please use the Project:Itinerary article template. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:26, 8 February 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Itinerary A


text:
Talk:Iwaizumi

 * Are the commuter bus times useful? It looks cluttered and hard to read to me.  Most travelers to this area drive, in any case. 203.179.254.218 06:19, 7 June 2010 (EDT)

Railway?
I am under the impression that the railway is out of service, it would be nice if someone knowledgable could confirm that and adjust the text accordingly. —The preceding comment was added by 115.65.163.194 (talk • contribs)

title: Talk:Iwaizumi


text:
Talk:Iwaki

Lived in Iwaki for 15 years. Nothing "grim" about it so changed the introduction to something a bit more accurate. 74.190.84.118 17:49, 8 December 2011 (EST)

title: Talk:Iwaki


text:
Talk:Ixtapa

pic is messed --(WT-en) Lone.guner 12:27, 30 January 2008 (EST)

I'd complain about how much this page reads like an advertisement, but considering what Ixtapa is, it's probably right on for what potential visitors are looking for.

title: Talk:Ixtapa


text:
Talk:Miyoshi (Tokushima)/Iya Valley

Moved External Links to discussion page: see Where did the "External links" sections go?' (WT-en) SHC 21:36, 23 April 2006 (EDT)
 * East Iya (in Japanese)
 * West Iya Village (in Japanese)

Wrong advice for stings?
In the 'stay safe' section, it is recommends "squeezing out the venom" of hornets and centipedes.

I'm not a medical doctor, but I understand that this is very bad advice, and will in fact probably make things worse.

http://eliminatehornets.net/how_to_treat_a_hornets_sting.php

http://www.wikihow.com/Treat-a-Wasp-or-Hornet-Sting

Andrewssi2 (talk) 08:31, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

 * Updated --Andrewssi2 (talk) 09:29, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Star status?
Our anonymous contributor has been providing great detail to this article over the past year.

Is this a potential Star rated article? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 09:34, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Onomiya: "tourist fare or clientele"
I'm translating it to French, and I am not sure to understand the meaning of "fare" in this sentence: "Not your typical tourist fare or clientele, but you'll surely be welcomed". Does it mean "price" or "food and drink" in this context? — Fabimaru (talk) 15:07, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

 * "Fare", in this context, means "food", or maybe "food and drink", and doesn't refer to price at all. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:48, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you a lot! — Fabimaru (talk) 18:29, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * De rien. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:55, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Japanese encephylitis
It's so rare, shouldn't we delete the mention of it? Any good reason not to? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:11, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
 * An average of 5 cases per year? Not much of a risk. A little further research indicates that the risk in Iya Valley isn't even as high as Kyushu or Okinawa. So I support removing it from this article. --Bigpeteb (talk) 18:31, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:46, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Regarding IyaTime webpage
It has come to my attention that due to being a travel guide, IyaTime.com should not be linked here. I contacted the website and it is managed and supported by the Higashi-Iya Shoukoukai 東祖谷商工会 (the local commerce association) which operates under the Keizaisangoushou 経済産業省 (Ministry of Economy, Trade, and Industry (aka METI)). Also, the site works together with several local tourism organizations.

It seems that in recent years there has been a large upswing in foreign tourism to the area, and the local tourism and business groups who are putting the Iya-Time site together feel the Miyoshi government has not adequately responded (for example, by not publishing accurate bus schedules in English, which has led to many visitors to becoming lost).

The site is still being built and once done it may become separate from the Shoukoukai and apply for its own NPO status. Further, the local tourism department apparently supports this website initiative (though not yet with any financing due to not yet being an NPO).

Therefore, since it is not the singular "official" Governmental Tourism Department website, then should all mention of it be expunged from this wiki page? —The preceding comment was added by 202.255.16.70 (talk • contribs)

 * Thanks for addressing this, and again, welcome! I signed for you - on talk pages, it's expected for each person to sign their posts by typing 4 tildes (~) in a row at the end of each one.

 * It sounds like this might be a kind of semi-official page. It might be OK to link it once somewhere, but let's see what other people think. Here's the site. I kind of lean against any link to it, especially because I don't see any indication on the site of the information you found out about who is responsible for it. If it were an official guide, we could link it or at least mention that it's on the local Tourism Office's site. But I feel like this site would substitute for a Wikivoyage article and could discourage people from adding more content or paying attention to what's already here. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:54, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:54, 5 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Manneken Pis at Iyakei.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 12:06, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Ochiai smr01.jpeg

 * This photo is used in the article. If you know what the law is in regard to photos owned by Japanese municipalities, please comment on the linked thread. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:44, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * On the bottom of that archive page, it says "Copyright © 2009 City of Miyoshi. All rights reserved." – so it has to go as it's a copyvio. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:49, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll delete it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:50, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Miyoshi (Tokushima)/Iya Valley


text:
Talk:Izakaya

Archived VfD
A type of Japanese pub, should be merged into Japan. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:23, 7 May 2009 (EDT)

 * Merge & redirect. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 04:33, 12 May 2009 (EDT)
 * Should it really be redirected after the merge? I don't think a redirect is really necessary for something like this. It's not a destination or a site. If someone is searching for "Izakaya" and doesn't know it's Japanese, I'd say they need a dictionary not a travel guide. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 10:56, 9 June 2009 (EDT)
 * The redirect is for attribution purposes. (WT-en) LtPowers 10:58, 9 June 2009 (EDT)
 * Really? It just seems like creating a redirect page for everything would lead to an overabundance of unhelpful redirects. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 11:09, 9 June 2009 (EDT)

 * There's no such thing as an overabundance of redirects—they do no harm. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:05, 9 June 2009 (EDT)

 * Unless they lead someplace that winds up confusing for the user. =)  (WT-en) LtPowers 08:38, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

 * Delete. Unless we want to create redirect pages for every word of the native language of each destination, this doesn't make much sense as a precedent. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 18:16, 25 July 2009 (EDT)

 * Result: Merge to Japan. I've tagged the article accordingly.  (WT-en) LtPowers 21:21, 5 August 2009 (EDT)

After the close

 * I am still against redirecting this after the content is merged. It's just a Japanese word, as Gorilla Jones said. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 22:27, 5 August 2009 (EDT)
 * If we lose the history of the content, we'd be violating the attribution requirements of the CC-by-sa license. (WT-en) LtPowers 08:13, 6 August 2009 (EDT)
 * Only if the content is re-used on another page. In this case, Japan already had a perfectly suitable definition of "Izakaya", and looking at the history of that article, I see none of the content from this one. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 08:31, 6 August 2009 (EDT)
 * Fair enough, but the consensus called for a merge. If we can agree there's nothing here that needs to be merged, then go ahead and re-nom for deletion.  (WT-en) LtPowers 13:25, 6 August 2009 (EDT)
 * I don't see any consensus up there. I see three users in favor of a merge which never happened, and two against. That's a majority, but it's not a consensus. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 19:04, 7 August 2009 (EDT)
 * ChubbyWimbus questioned the need for a redirect but never really came out against it, and both Peter and Jani seemed to think there was something here worth saving. (WT-en) LtPowers 22:28, 7 August 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Izakaya


text:
Talk:Izmir

Copyvio
I noticed we had a copyvio tag sitting on this article for almost 3 months. So I cleaned out everything ddderived from this edit. It may have been overkill, but I can't be sure of the provenance of any of that anon's edits. -- (WT-en) Jonboy 17:45, 5 January 2007 (EST)

Izmir metro
The map in the Izmir article doesn't show all metro lines, but for some reason only one... Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:54, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

 * look, the issue appears still unaddressed... Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:48, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Izmir


text:
Talk:Jaú National Park

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Comments
Moved from Project:Plunge forward by (WT-en) Evan

PLEASE CHANGE THE WRONG INFORAMTION.

for Get in JAU NATIONAL PARK, over the jungle in the amazonian. the operator ECO-DISCOVERY TOURS is Illegal agency, never paid their taxes and also is highly risk for every tourist to get dessapointed for the poor organization and but conditions for operate those areas, also the tourist pay a lot and the guide work for that, and the owner of eco-discovery never pay to those people, that is reason those guides operator are working now for different other companies. (geros tour, Amazon riders tours, ecoplanet, green planet, swallows adn amazons.

so, we think this medium is serious and need as soon change the false information about Eco-discovery tours. (illegal agency tourism operator) —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 200.222.200.61 (talk • contribs)

 * I've removed the listing, which is quoted below. --(WT-en) Evan 14:00, 26 June 2006 (EDT)

 * Tour contact: Eco Discovery Tours: Manaus – Amazonas – Brazil' Rua dos Andrade 452, first floor, Manaus-Center.  Meeting Point with  Internet,   Nice atmosphere. regional snacs, local guides, cheap international phone calls.

www dot ecoviagem dot com.br/agencia-turismo/amazonas/manaus/eco-discovery-tours.asp

members dot virtualtourist dot com/vt/lm/1ddc/?i=0.''

'''RESPONSE TO THE INFORMATION ABOVE FROM (WT-en) Robertwolfgangschuster

see www dot receita dot fazenda dot gov.br/PessoaJuridica/CNPJ/cnpjreva/Cnpjreva_Solicitacao.asp CNPJ :   03444880000183 (with this number you can get the oficial information of brazilian federal goverment about he legality of the employment)
 * 1.	The Eco Discovery Tours is a legal Travel Agency since  08 October 1999 at the Junta Comercial do Estado do Amazonas – JUCEA  sob ração social ECOLOGIA E DESCOBERTA TURISMO LTDA  with the “nome fantasia Eco Discovery Tours” in the municipal district of Manaus Amazonas Brasil.
 * 2.	A agency is registered at Ministerio da Industria e Comercio e do Turismo ( govermental Industrial and tourist agency ) as >agencia de viagens e turismo<  with the nunmber 23706.00.41.7  at 15 may 2000.
 * 3.	Last tax paid to the  Manaus municipal goverment  on 09 january 2006  R$ 277,19 at the bank >Caixa economica federal<  agency PMMANAUS.
 * 4.	It seems to me that you got your information from a free lance guide (i dont’n want to mention his name, but the last month he organized trips with several travellers using the name of Eco-Discovery Tours)  !!
 * 6.	The leadig package of the Eco Discovery Tours the last 9 years is the Tour to the nacional park of Jaú e mentioned in several internetional guide books  like Lonely Planet, Letsgo, bradt travel guide,rough guide. 情報ノート etc  and is administrated of  a brasilian, a british and  a dutch manager, (registered in the social contract of the employment)
 * 7.	The Eco Discovery Tours is the only agency which atually is contracted by all others agencys to make the Jaú tour.

park15 dot wakwak dot com/~kimamasekairyoko/Joho/Joho08Brasil.htm

Please excuse my bad english, but I am Austrian and natural german speaker. Visit my home page, you will see that my branch is more related with chucrute e smoked fish, but I am living in Manaus and know the real situation here. Because of the world cup this year and the strong Real currency we have less travellers and it is a survival question for everybody even for a legal agency which has to pay workers, office rent, tax, marketing ... It is rational that some workers guess that they earn few money. Buisness is not easy for nobody at Brazil.

 * No, I won't. Really, the whole point of the page this came from, Project:Plunge forward, is that people need to change the pages themselves. If you think that this listing needs to be in the page, please just add it back. --(WT-en) Evan 17:45, 6 July 2006 (EDT)

 * Robert, it sounds like you have a good point and that anonymous person's information was incorrect. Please, change the article yourself. If they come back and have some more to say on the matter, they can post it here. Please don't insist that I, Evan, must edit the page. You can do it yourself perfectly well. --(WT-en) Evan 11:55, 12 July 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Jaú National Park


text:
Talk:Jacó

Don't tout
My edit messages are going awry today. Everyone connected with a hotel needs to read this: http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Don%27t_tout (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 21:25, 3 February 2011 (EST)

title: Talk:Jacó


text:
Talk:Jackson (Wyoming)

Hey...whomever started this page, thank you so much!

I wanted to report that I took that comment, "It's a sore spot for locals" out because I really don't think that tourists referring to Jackson or mistaking the towns name for Jackson Hole isn't 'enough of a sore spot'. In fact it might almost hit a nerve of 'snobbery' with residents and tourists alike. Similar "who cares" boasting, once upon a time was who had a 733 number or didn't, have letters on their license plate or the low number quest on plates and mailboxes, 001 0r 002.

Lets be a friendly, welcoming town. A town that welcomed you 35 years ago or me 15 years ago or someone who has just discovered the same mountain or stream that you or I did that kept us here.

Thank you again. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Tootsy's Footsy Lounge (talk • contribs) at 06:05, 20 January 2011

Grand Targhee
The directions say "Located over Teton Pass, about an hour and a half from Jackson". I don't think it belongs in this guide except maybe as a "Go next" destination. Your thoughts? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:39, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jackson (Wyoming)


text:
Talk:Jackson Hole

Why this was redirected
I redirected this to Jackson (Wyoming), on the grounds that
 * 1) Jackson already has a semi-well-developed article that explains the nuances separating "Jackson" and "Jackson Hole", and covers several Jackson Hole attractions/services;
 * 2) Skiing is only one of the things to do there;
 * 3) The precedent that is emerging -- see Talk:Colorado -- is for ski resorts only to get their own article if they're stand-alone and more significant than the community servicing them.  I don't believe that's the case for the resort at Jackson Hole.

There is room for discussion on this, and if someone wants to justify a stand-alone article and fill it with content, I certainly don't object. Just no spam, please; the original article clearly didn't belong, and (WT-en) Colin did well to replace it with an empty outline, sorry to say. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 18:06, 9 December 2006 (EST)

 * I think this sounds fine. The only counterargument I can give is that many people thing "Jackson Hole" is the name of the/a town, and that it's the better-known name. But this system seems more accurate and correct, and if we have the redirect, things are OK by me. --(WT-en) Evan 21:29, 9 December 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Jackson Hole


text:
Talk:Jacksonville

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Comments
This page will probably need to be renamed "Jacksonville_(Florida)" because there are other cities named Jacksonville in the US. Jacksonville, North Carolina, for one. (WT-en) Gamweb 00:57, 20 July 2007 (EDT)

 * There's already a Jacksonville (disambiguation), which lists the others. The one in FL seems to be considerably larger and better known than any of the competition. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:13, 20 July 2007 (EDT)

Need districtification?
User:Mathew105601 suggested to districtify the Jacksonville article and xe suggested following: --Saqib (talk) 15:52, 1 November 2013 (UTC) Jacksonvillians understand their city by splitting it into large "sides" to the north, south, east, and west of the central business district. Jacksonvillians also tend to identify strongly with their neighborhood

 * Not yet — sorry Mathew, but we don't chop up city articles into districts before they get very large and thus kinda "unwieldy". Currently I don't think there is so much information in Jacksonville that we should need to districtify the article. But if know the city well and start expanding the article, a division into districts will eventually be needed. That said, if the above mentioned division into districts is really useful for navigation in Jacksonville, I guess the map and a list of the districts could be included in the article in some form. ϒpsilon (talk) 16:29, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

 * Ypsilon, I understand your point, and agree that the page is lacking in content. I have to say for the record, I never used the word districtify in my campaign for a neighborhood map on the Jacksonville page. It seems this term may be loaded and unique to this wiki, and one I might not fully understand. I don't see how giving a potential traveler the upper-hand in local knowledge of locations and place is not worth including. It seems to always be relevant to know that type of information, even in the smallest of cities. I'm not advocating for new district pages yet, which seems to be my conclusion of what districtify means. I do think that pages could be developed in the future, that is if every decision doesn't have to be made by council. I've been on wikipedia for years, Wikivoyager is a much more frustrating beast. —The preceding comment was added by Mathew105601 (talk • contribs)

 * The learning curve can be on the steep side, don't get too frustrated :-) Indeed, the word "districtify" comes with images of empty skeleton district articles for some of us, and yes, there's not yet enough information to create such articles. However, I don't see why we should not yet include the map with an (unlinked) list of neighbourhood names, if that's relevant information for an average traveller. Especially when you say people tend to identify with their neighbourhoods. That's pretty much what Ypsilon also said above. I just can't comment on the division you made - I'm absolutely unfamiliar with the city. JuliasTravels (talk) 16:18, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

 * Hi again! You guessed right. Districtifying/districtification is something we do when we have a lot of information - usually that means a lot of individual sights, activities, restaurants, hotels etc. (ie. "listings") In those cases we create sub articles (district articles) for the city and put the listings there, and change the text in the city's original See, Do etc. sections to more general descriptions of the city "Art buffs should head to X, as most of the city's museums and galleries are located there. If you want to party the best clubs are in Y" . I just read what Saqib wrote above and thought that you were about to do that.
 * But thanks for clarifying. I want to second what Julia just said, if your plan was just to add the map and the description of the districts as above to the article, by all means do it. It is useful information for a traveler. And welcome to Wikivoyage! ϒpsilon (talk) 16:50, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I also thought Methew wants to districtify the article since he created that region list which is usually allowed when one wants to districtify an article. Incase we're not districtifying this article, we don't want a region list as proposed by Methew and instead a sub-section called "Orientation" under the "Understand" section will be enough. --Saqib (talk) 16:55, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, it should be put in a sub section of Understand, like in Oslo. As the map has colors, I think it would be practical to have the colored bars on the left hand side (in other words in the same way as in a district list) but of course without links. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:08, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Judging from this thread it looks like the consensus is to include the "Orientation" section as is. Unless there are any further objections I will be merging this section into the main article in the near future. Mathew105601 (talk) 14:09, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

 * Given that this topic has risen objections in the past, I want to give notice of my intention to add districts to this article and to summarize topics currently in list form in pros on the Jacksonville page. Although the current form of the Jacksonville page is useful, it could me more so if certain, more repetitive data was diverted to the more localized article, while the main page could be better summarized and present more fluidly. This districtification also falls in line with local approaches to presenting the region, giving a good framework to build from. I could use some pointers on how to develop maps inline with other wikivoyage city pages. Mathew105601 (talk) 17:10, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jacksonville


text:
Talk:Jaigaon

Touting
This article is full of touting and self-promotional listings. I'm too tired to deal with it now, but it really needs a major cleanup. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 06:31, 20 February 2011 (EST)

 * OK, I did do some work, but I think there's still more to be done. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 06:45, 20 February 2011 (EST)

Warning about crime
I understand that these warning boxes should be used sparingly, but in this case I believe it is justified. Few people will ever visit this place, but those who do should be aware that it is a major corridor for the trade of hard drugs and trafficked persons. Kids carry huge swords, half the buildings are illegal and most of the people are undocumented, there are Bangladeshi terrorists hiding out here and there are probably only 4 police officers who are scared to leave their station at night.

Many drug addicts in Bhutan move to or visit the Indian side of the border to take drugs which are harder to come by or more expensive in Bhutan, you find them wandering around everywhere and they don't care who's local and who isn't.

None of this is on any travel guide or government advisory I could find, I doubt anyone has even stayed here because most people go straight into Bhutan.

--Billbarrelrider (talk) 07:38, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

 * While not a pleasant place to hang out and drug dealing is common, Jaigaon is certainly not dangerous enough to warrant a warning box. Many Bhutanese live there because the costs are cheaper than across the border, and it is a major hub for ordering building supplies for Bhutan. There are some crimes linked to protests and drug deals, but it is perfectly safe to wander around in the day and hotels and restaurants are fine at night. Caution is needed in back alleys at night, but most people will merely be surprised to see a foreigner there. This is not Caracas or San Pedro Sula and a warning box is a little over the top. Personally, I think its rough appearance give the impression of danger, which is not really existing 119.2.104.131 10:30, 17 January 2021 (UTC).

 * Have things notably improved in 2 years, or do you just have a different perspective than Billbarrelrider? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:56, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

 * I am familiar with Jaigaon, and have a different perspective. It is a messy place, but I would contend that it is less dangerous than low income areas in developed countries, and cannot be compared to places known for crime in Latin America. Personally, I think a simple warning to be cautious would be appropriate. A Warning Box makes people feel that they should fear for the lives, which is far from the truth. In addition, most of the drugs sold there are cheap prescription drugs, not hard drugs, and so there are no drug cartels or anything like that. Yes, compared to Siliguri or Bhutan it is less safe, but no traveller needs to fear for their lives there. 119.2.104.131 11:06, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

 * Understood. I'd be fine with your making these changes, but wait at least another couple of days or so to see if anyone objects. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:54, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

 * That sounds good. 119.2.104.131 16:46, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Illegal/ informal crossings into Bhutan
Now I'm not sure how to write this and would like feedback if possible.

It is entirely possible to cross the border here without a visa. It is actually a common practice because the only people who really come here are Indian tourists and controls are incredibly lax. locals just walk across at one of the 4 (?) gates or holes in the border fence and nobody cares in the slightest, no bag check, passport check, documents check.

There is just a old man, a chair and a gate. The gate is always open and the man is sometimes asleep

Locals tell me there is an informal understanding that visiting the area immediately adjacent to to border is acceptable, many Indians have businesses there and the paperwork would be too much of a hassle for anyone to bother with. Leaving the town is an entirely different matter, but locals (at their own risk) seem more than willing to ferry foreign tourists around (very) nearby Bhutanese villages

Now this varies radically from the official process, and attempting it could theoretically land a traveler in serious trouble so I'm reluctant to write about it- but knowing this might very well be in the best interests of the traveler; as it's possibly the only way to visit Bhutan without paying the exorbitant price of the tourist visa and going on a tour.

The fact of the matter is I literally walked into Bhutan, had lunch, met some very friendly Bhutanese people in full view of all the police and border guards- then went back the next day with an Indian friend to play billiards. If other travelers are willing to take the risk for that kind of experience, I think that should be their call.

Feedback greatly appreciated, as it's a very grey area. --Billbarrelrider (talk) 07:48, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

edit help
This sentence in the introduction is nonsense: "If you hang around the border you can see Bhutanese (sometimes in traditional attire) leave their country to smoke a cigarette, then return to Bhutan where cigarette smoking in public is illegal." While purchase of cigarettes is illegal in Bhutan, they are readily available and people smoke on their own homes, while cafes and bars have a designated smoking area. The idea that someone will walk from the town into Jaigaon just to smoke a cigarette is ludicrous. 119.2.104.131 18:06, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Redirection of article
can you explain why you redirected this article? It looks like it was a useful article. Also notifying. Ground Zero (talk) 17:31, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Here is the article before it was redirected. It has listings for hotels and food that would be useful to travellers. They were not incorporated into India, where this article was redirected, and they shouldn't be. This is too much detail for the India article. As it is useful for travellers, I think the Jaigaon article should be restored. Ground Zero (talk) 22:07, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I support restoring the article as a lot of information has been lost by redirecting it to India. Border towns are valid articles. They exist for other countries. Gizza ( roam ) 23:11, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Me too. The article was no stub; it provided useful information, and although the town may not be a prime destination, people using the border checkpoint are served with having this article. That's different from border crossings such as Kivilompolo or Raja-Jooseppi in Finnish Lapland, which have just the customs and in the latter case a barrier and a border guard station (the nearby Raja-Jooseppi museal homestead is described in the article about the UKK park). –LPfi (talk) 11:25, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * So, if that is the unanimous decision, can someone revert user Sbb1413's edits and put the page back up. I've tried, but failed. Thank you. User:SingyeDzong
 * User:SingyeDzong: this discussion has only be going for one day. Let's wait to see if anyone else wants to express an opinion. We don't rush decisions like this in Wikivoyage. Ground Zero (talk) 12:42, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll restore the article if there's a consensus to do so. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 14:42, 13 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand, but as the merger was done without consultation in the first place and not made as the result of a unanimous decision by a number of people, I felt it should just be reverted, as we would with any edits that we feel are inappropriate. But, it's up to you. I raised the issue, and now will leave it. I just hope it doesn't get forgotten. Thank you. User:SingyeDzong
 * I too support restoring. Looks like a useful article, and the information is way too much to cover at the India article. Seems to pass the sleep test too. —Granger (talk · contribs) 02:18, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I don't understand or agree with this unilateral redirection. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:18, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

I think there is a pretty clear consensus forming. Unless there is an objection, I will restore the article tomorrow. Ground Zero (talk) 12:49, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. Ground Zero (talk) 14:28, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I will do some edits to include the Bhutan Gate as an attraction of Jaigaon. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 08:58, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

Replacement of lead image
I have replace the lead image (shown at the right) with Bhutan Gate because the previous image looks uninteresting to me compared to the gate. Besides, the previous image is quite blurry. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:09, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, your image is better. Thank you. User:SingyeDzong
 * I agree. Ground Zero (talk) 17:07, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jaigaon


text:
Talk:Jaigon

vfd discussion

 * When I started this page, I spelt the name of the town incorrectly. It should be Jaigaon, so I recommend deleting this page. (WT-en) WindHorse 26 March 06
 * Ryan's suggestion: "It's close enough in spelling that a redirect should be OK to prevent others from making the same mistake - just change the article text to " REDIRECT #Jaigaon " and all should be well. -- (WT-en) Ryan 03:21, 26 March 2006 (EST)"

I have added the redirect as suggested, but will leave the vdf marker to see what others think. (WT-en) WindHorse 26 March 06

title: Talk:Jaigon


text:
Talk:Jaipur

Here is one author's experience (note in hindsight this author admits to being foolhardy, and doesn't recommend such exuberant curiosity, although, wink wink, whats the fun of travelling without a few risks!):

''My first day in Jaipur, I was wandering the bustling streets, when out of nowhere a young fellow rode up next to me on his motorbike, with a cricket helmet and orange sunglasses. He introduced himself as 'Bapu', and immediately started to accuse Westerners of hating Indians, and not wanting to associate with them or get to know them, but only to see the historical sites and leave.

''Naturally in the backpacker's spirit i rejected this, and so he offered that we go discuss this over a cup of tea. Being an experienced traveller, this set off warning signals, but i was in the mood for adventure. I rode on the back of his motorbike to a local, dark out of the way restaurant. I quickly refused to drink anything, as i had heard of such ploys where the tea would be drugged, and i would wake up with all of my posessions gone. He soon lost interest, and i left. Later that day, another youngster attacked me with the same argument, and offered to discuss it over tea; naturally i refused (i heard later from another traveller that he had accepted an invitation, and suddenly a policeman arrived and arrested the youth, and advised him of the scam).''

''That evening I went to see a movie at the Raj Mandhir Movie Theater. While waiting in line (where people were pushing and shoving to get tickets), a youth approached me and asked me to buy him a ticket as well. I did so, and as it turned out we sat together in the theater. Now if you are going to Jaipur, I highly recommend seeing a movie here, it is a positivly astounding experience. The audience talks during the entire film, and shouts, claps and cheers; the movies themselves are beyond belief, usually rife with dancing and singing, and often copied scene by scene from popular Western movies!''

''This young fellow invited me afterwards to go to a party at his boss's house. Having little else to do, i hopped in a car with them and went. We got to this house, and no sooner had i walked in the door, than who did i see lounging on a couch? Bapu! He didn't say a word for a good 15 minutes, and then stumbled through an explanation. I was willing to forgive, and talked to the fellows for a while. Later, the 'boss' came in, and we talked, and he invited me to come for tea the next day at his office. I agreed, and he sent his friends to drive me back to the hotel. As we drove back (a little tipsy i must admit), suddenly a jeep crashed into the side of the car! Luckly nobody was hurt, but the car had been hit pretty bad. The fellows ran over to the jeep, and ran back saying 'no problem! its the police, we know them'.''

''The next day they picked me up to go to this boss's office, which was in fact a jewelry store. We casually talked for a bit, then he proposed that I assist him in smuggling jewelry to the US. Essentially, he reasonably explained that every tourist has a quota of several thousand dollars of untaxable exports. I, being a poor backpacker, naturally had only around 100 dollars worth of shawls, etc, to bring out. So he wanted to send a package by post to NYC in my name and under my export quota. When I arrived in NYC, a man would take me to pick up the package, and hand it over, and get 15000 dollars cash. A very attractive offer, but i had read about such scams and denied. He tried to convince me (i was clearly torn by the desire for $15k), but finally i said no, and he did little to stop me. Having almost gotten drugged, scammed, and killed in an auto accident, i realized it was time to move on. And thus I bought the next train ticket out of Jaipur!''

I noticed that an entry was needed for Jaipur. I visited it for a few days during an India trip in fall 2002, so i decided to drop some notes on it. I decided the best way to relay my advice on a particular topic i knew about in that city, safety, was to write up a story. Its not short, but i think it conveys an important aspect of Jaipur quite nicely. Is there, or should there be a travel story section, so that maybe i wouldn't need to stuff this in the Jaipur entry (if so please feel free to move the story)? Check it out at http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/article/Jaipur - NB 5-28-04

 * Ok Apparently somebody didn't like the story idea; I admit it was a bit long. I filled in some more traditional travel book info, and am working on getting a couple pictures i took uploaded. Is there a section where a travel story would be appropriate?

 * Just finished putting up pictures. NB (now (WT-en) Nick)

 * She only moved the story to Talk:Jaipur, rather than deleting it. We mostly try to stick to a Project:Manual of style for our guides, and one of the guidelines is to avoid writing in the first person.  Sometimes I find this kindof difficult, since it makes it hard to express some ideas.  That said it makes sense when you think of each article as a stand-alone guide to the place which somebody can use to find their way around.  Meanwhile the talk pages obviously are full of first-person opinions, etc. -- (WT-en) Mark 05:23, 29 May 2004 (EDT)

What should be done before this article is featured on the front page
In case you aren't reading India Expedition/Rajasthan, I wrote this there:

Good article.
 * Some external links are either naked or footnote-style and should be fixed. ✅ I think I got them all, though do double check to see if I missed any. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:58, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * "Learn" section is in the wrong place, and its listings should all be templated. ✅ Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:51, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
 * "Sleep" listings that haven't been updated since 2012 should be updated.
 * "Activities and entertainment" listings under "See" should be moved to "Do," except for the bazaar, which belongs in "Buy." ✅ Ibaman (talk) 12:30, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * There are a few more listings that are incomplete or need to be listified and the article lacks a city map. ✅ Ibaman (talk) 14:20, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, the "Understand" section is very good, but the lede should be made more attractive. ✅ Most of the work was by User:Saqib, with some by me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:58, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

But overall, it's a nicely illustrated and very substantive article. We should polish it and then nominate it for Destination of the Month. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:44, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

 * The obvious remaining tasks are to add addresses and/or geo to listings that lack them, check to make sure all the listed establishments of any kind still exist and update old (mostly 2012) prices. Also, see the Chokhi Dhani thread below. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:58, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Tours in "Do"
This article is shaping up very nicely and may be ready for Dotm nomination soon.

One of the remaining issues is how to treat the tour listings. I'm having trouble seeing how the Jaipur food tour provides a "value-added" service that individual travellers couldn't do on their own, and the linked company seems to be a rather typical tour agency that also includes food in its tours, rather than, for example, a cooking school. The site for Vedic Walks, which is promoting its "Heritage Walking Tour of Jaipur" in this article (or, less likely but possible, someone else decided to list it), is not working properly on the notebook computer I'm borrowing from my girlfriend, so I can't see the details of its tour. Is there anything "value-added" about their tour that warrants it being listed? I like the idea of a Vedic walk, but would it be hard to duplicate on one's own? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:48, 18 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm going to delete them. If anyone would like to argue for reinstating them, please do so below. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:24, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Chokhi Dhani
Right now, it's listed in "Do", "Eat" and "Go next". The "Go next" listing is the fullest, but at 18 km from the city centre, is it really a "Go next"? What's the best place to list this, or is it actually so unusual that it should be mentioned in several sections? Also, it would be great if its address or at least geolocation could be established. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:54, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

 * My resolution of this issue was to consolidate the three listings in "Do" under a new "Nearby" subsection, getting information from the resort's website, and then also inserting a note at the end of the "Eat" section also referring people to this listing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:51, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Jewel prices
I deleted old jewel prices, which are probably from 2011 or earlier, as misleading, but I'm not sure I was right. Would it be better to restore them with the disclaimer that these prices are probably as of 2011? The theory behind restoring them would be that some guidance, even if old, is better than a visitor having no idea whatsoever of what the actual prices after bargaining should be. But if these prices are 4 or more years old, it's hard to know how accurate they are for 2015. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:27, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

By cycle-rickshaw
"Cycle-rickshaws are cheaper, but the amount of time it takes quickly makes the extra few rupees worth it." What does this implicate? That cycle-rickshaws are so slow that you should rather take an auto-rickshaw, taxi or bus? Then, let's say so.

"Walking in the bazaar is a treat, although side streets are a bit less welcoming and offer a sharper glimpse of poverty." Shouldn't this be moved to a By foot section instead of being sandwiched in the middle of the cycle-rickshaw section? ϒpsilon (talk) 08:29, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

 * I interpret the first sentence the same way you do, and I agree with your point about the second one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:08, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Jaipur and wv:worship
There seem to be many places of worship listed – are they all listings that travellers unrelated to the religion would want to go to? While some like Galtaji or Moti Dungri Mandir seem places that I'd want to go to even though I'm not a Hindu, others like Birla Mandir doesn't seem to fit the criteria for wv:worship and some like Jain Mandir seem to be a vis-a-vis case. To anyone who knows this place well, which ones should be removed? -- SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:18, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Image search results for Birla Mandir, and there's a thumbnail in the article; Jain Mandir, which looks really beautiful and special. The guideline you are citing is meant to avoid boring listings, not listings for places that are beautiful or special in some way, and I don't think that because you don't find Birla Mandir's more modern style so interesting (for the record, my taste also runs more toward the Jain Mandir if I'm choosing) is a good reason to suggest deleting the listing. Besides, listing only 7 temples in Jaipur is rather restrained. I hope you don't suggest decreasing the number of churches listed in the article for the way smaller city of Siena next. There are 6 listed there, I've personally visited all 6, and they're all worth visiting. Please back off a bit on this. And you may remember that I'm neither a Hindu, a Jain nor a Christian. But I do love beautiful buildings and beautiful art. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:48, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree with Ikan, they can all be kept. Tai123.123 (talk) 17:09, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

Which cab apps should be mentioned, if any, and in what order?
Right now, we have in order Gozocabs, Uber, Cabbazar and Ola. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:55, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jaipur


text:
Talk:Jaisalmer

How far out do we want listings to go?
There is a listing for accommodations 1 hour's drive outside of Jaisalmer. Is that too far? What about 45 minutes? My tendency is to think that 30 minutes should be the limit, but I will defer to any consensus. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 08:20, 4 January 2012 (EST)

Article cleanup required in Eat/drink/sleep sections
@Midtown restaurant making entry in both eat and drink section as well as using wikivoyage as for advertising yourself is not ok. I am deleting your entry from the drink section as well as deleting your description. --(WT-en) anurag.thakur84 12:51, 12 February 2012 (EST)

@Wiki travellers :- The entire eat/drink/sleep sections look like as if they have been created by the respective hotel owners. I am not sure about the best way forward but i sure do feel like deleting all the descriptions having "we". The article needs a lots of cleanup. Especially where ever there is a scope of listing any business. Discussions? --(WT-en) anurag.thakur84 12:51, 12 February 2012 (EST)

 * I see this problem still exists. Yes, the "Eat" listings for hotel restaurants should be deleted, unless those hotel restaurants are extensively patronized by non-guests of the hotels (which I doubt, since they don't have independent names, but that is no proof). Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:54, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Hotel Surja Guest House listing
This unexplained deletion just took place: The deleted passage is a negative review. An unexplained edit to delete the bad review is a little questionable. So my question to all of you is, do you know whether the deleted passage was accurate or possibly put into the listing by an unethical competitor? The question to me is, should the negative review be deleted (as was done) or should the entire listing be deleted? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:52, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

New banner?
The current banner is very hazy and unsharp. Could File:Jaisalmer Panorama.jpg work as a banner? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:07, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

 * Also, I really like this photo: File:Heritage Inn Hotel, Jaisalmer.jpg. But we have no listing for the hotel. Should we? A quick web search shows that it apparently is still in business. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:13, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jaisalmer


text:
Talk:Jakarta

Shading on Jakarta/South isn't correctly displayed
Hello, everyone. It has been a long time since the last discussion here on this page. I notice the yellow-coloured shading on South Jakarta on the map isn't shown correctly. Is it because of the insufficient map data from the Wikipedia Maps? Because I have changed it several times with another colour and still nothing changes. Thank you! ibhi19 (talk) 09:20, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

 * I noticed this too. Looks like these come from Open Street Map, which doesn't have an entry for South Jakarta, unlike the rest of the districts - see North Jakarta for example. Perevodchik2 (talk) 20:37, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

 * Tried correcting it myself but unfortunately it can only be done manually by writing the coordinates like it used to be. I am not at the capacity, where I can spend a day or two to fix it. It's not a big issue right now, but maybe I'll come back here later. ibhi19 (talk) 08:53, 5 January 2021 (UTC)

 * South Jakarta does have a relation in OpenStreetMap, but I don't know why it is not showing up. Hanif Al Husaini (talk) 06:15, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

 * Should this be done manually, then? At least to make sure it is showing up on the map until there's a fix in OpenStreetMap relation. ibhi19 (talk) 09:08, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

 * Well, the problem has resolved, since the shading is already present. I guess there was a bugfix in the OpenStreetMap relation. Anyway, enjoy! ibhi19 (talk) 10:31, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:09, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Hotel Indonesia, photographed at dusk; December 2014.jpg

 * No FoP in Indonesia. Do we want this photo? SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 10:10, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jakarta