text:
Talk:Philadelphia

Neighborhoods
(WT-en) Maj and I have been having discussions over LRC protocol about this page for a few days. There's some interesting parallels with Talk:Seattle/Districts, too. The main upshot is: what do we do with information about neighborhoods for non-huge cities? If we're not going to split the neighborhood off into its own district page, where does cohesive info about the neighborhood go? Some ideas we had:

 * as part of the "Understand"
 * as an attraction under "See" or "Do"
 * make a separate section ("Visit"? "Go to some neighborhoods"?)

Anyways, interesting stuff. --(WT-en) Evan 17:23, 4 Jan 2004 (EST)

Hmm... so I think there is/will be enough material to present Philly as a huge city and break it up into districts if we kept it down to the few major geographical divisions.. say West Philly, South Philly, Center City, North Philly, Far NE... and then within these districts include all the other little neighborhood info. What do you think? -(WT-en) nick 21:00, 16 Aug 2004 (EDT)

 * Yes, this article is in serious need of districting/templating. (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:17, 17 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Do not include Northern Liberties under the "North Philly" section. Along with Fishtown and Spring Garden, it forms a culturally and demographically separate section of the city that is very different from North Philadelphia. I don't know anyone from these neighborhoods that would say they live in North Philly. Also, your definition of North Philly extends way too far west and not far enough east. I would take it down to, say, D street in the east, not Front St. The western border is very windy and irregular so it's difficult to explain here, but East Falls, Manayunk, Germantown, Roxborough, Mt. Airt, and Chestnut Hill are definitely NOT in North Philadelphia. Generally when dividing the city up into big blocs of land, those neighborhoods would fall under "Northwest Philadelphia," although locally nobody calls it that. But in addition to that, they are very different in every way - culturally, economically, demographically, etc. - from North Philly. I would advise people not to visit North Philadelphia. To say it's a working class neighborhood struggling with crime is giving it way too much credit and if people are coming here to visit, you might be putting them in danger. Advise people to skip North Philly but create a separate section for Manayunk (a big nightlife spot), Germantown (historic and beautiful, but dangerous in some parts)and Mt. Airy and Chestnut Hill, where there's a lot of money and beautiful architecture along cobblestone streets.

Also - University City is also named for the University of the Sciences in Philadelphia, not just Penn and Drexel.

—The preceding comment was added by 98.225.164.229 (talk • contribs)

 * Please see the discussion below. Also please note that we try to group neighborhoods together in one article, even when the fit isn't perfect, when we don't have enough content to justify splitting into near-empty articles.  --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:00, 13 November 2010 (EST)

Coffee Shops
I removed "* Crimson Moon corner of 20th and Sansom Streets, . " from coffee shops. It closed over the summer of 2005. They are supposedly looking for a new space to reopen. 66.92.150.136 23:16, 31 Jan 2006 (EST)

Skate scene
So, I removed the section on skateboarding and moved the FDR park info into "Parks". --(WT-en) Evan 18:08, 2 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Powelton Village
Noticed that you've listed Powelton Village and certainly agree that it's worthy of a visit. You haven't included any information however ... how about something along the lines of:

Powelton Village is a small, diverse community in the University City section of Philadelphia. It remains visually identifiable, an oasis of tree-lined streets, porch-fronted suburban houses interspersed with a few mansions and their commercial support buildings dating from the second half of the nineteenth century.

 * I copied it into the page, but next time, please just plunge forward and edit it yourself! --(WT-en) Evan 21:16, 16 Aug 2004 (EDT)

NE Philly
Franklin Mills is listed as "the most visited attraction in pennsylvania". What is the source of this information? On my google search, I found superpages with this quote, attributing the statistic to Franklin Mills itself http://www.superpages.com/cities/mtg/92325, also the wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_Philadelphia calls it "one of the most visited attractions in the state".

(WT-en) Fulldecent 08:11, 3 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * In my reply on your talk page I said: If you think that the comments about Franklin Mills in Philadelphia are unsubstantiated claims please plunge forward and edit it. The phrase, a popular attraction may be better. While Wikivoyagers aren't into quoting their sources much, we do support a neutral point of view. -- (WT-en) Huttite 17:06, 3 Jan 2006 (EST)

Huge City
Philadelphia is looking like a Huge City. How should it be broken down? -- (WT-en) Huttite 17:13, 3 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * That sounds like the lead-in for a WC Fields joke. --(WT-en) Evan 23:43, 3 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * All right. I think I did it, but I think someone who knows the city needs to give it a once over. I'm not going to make empty spaces for these, but I'll stick the list here anyway. Can any of these be combined? I saw a lot of listings that were like "(Germantown/Mount Airy/Chestnut Hill)" -- is there a name for all of these together?

(WT-en) Majnoona 16:09, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)
 * Chestnut Hill
 * Fishtown
 * Frankford
 * Fox Chase
 * Germantown
 * Roxborough

District naming
Philly's geographical districts should be named a short and sweet "Philadelphia/Northwest" etc, not a redundant "Philadelphia/Northwest Philadelphia". (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:40, 19 Jan 2006 (EST)

Philadelphia/Far Northeast Philadelphia
A district article for far northeast Philadelphia has been created - is it worth having it as a seperate district, or should it be merged into one of the others? -- (WT-en) Tim 09:08, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

I think it should be merged, there is a socio-economic difference between the northeast and far northeast, but in regards to the article, the distinctions made overlap in both. Until information about northeast philadelphia becomes so in-depth that it needs to be split (and let's face it, that'll never happen) it should be combined. (WT-en) Edg126 11:30, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

 * If there anyone reading this knows enough about Philly, please plunge forward and start merging content. This article is over-districted and should be concentrated into four or five districts, until those begin to overflow. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 16:38, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

Events
How about a 'When to come' section of the best time to come in the city for annual events w/ the dates. That's usually my interest of coming to wikivoyage, finding the local events. Some suggestions: Fourth of July Dad Vail Regatta Penn Relays Festival of World Cinema etc... (WT-en) Edg126 14:42, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

Get In
Anyone know anything about getting in by plane via Skybus into Wilmington airport? That's where we're landing in a month's time but I don't know how best to get to the city. (WT-en) Syscrusher 01:08, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

Since Skybus is now defunct, you will probably have to fly into Philly. If you're still flying in the Wilmington / New Castle, then you will have to arrange for transportation either directly to Philly or to the Wilmington train station and take Amtrak (or SEPTA) to 30th Street Station close to Center City. --Jaar12 10:48, 14 April 2008 (EDT)

Learn
The Learn section could be greatly improved if modeled somewhat after Chicago's, the narrative form. The big boring list as it is now is terrible.

Do: Outside the Metro
In the Do section, somebody created a subsection entitled "Outside the Metro" and included this:
 * The Jersey Shore Visiting the Jersey shore is referred to locally as "going down the shore." Southern New Jersey's beaches include Ocean City, Atlantic City, and Cape May. Atlantic City is home to the Donald Trump casinos as well as the Borgata, Caesar's, and several other casinos. Cape May offers historical tours (and haunted tours!) of the town. And hey, it's a great way to cool off and unwind--and perhaps work off that cheesesteak!

Um, isn't this what the Get out section is for? I moved the info down to the Get out section. Wikivoyagers may want to look out for non-Philly info getting snuck into this article. (WT-en) Eco84 02:16, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

Hotels
The hotels located in the sleep section are mostly chain hotels located near the airport or outside of the city. A new article should be created listing the hotels located near the airport, and the remainder should be removed. (WT-en) Rouge 21:59, 3 August 2009 (EDT)

 * We're about one step from redistricting Philadelphia. Once we get that finished (and it really just needs the quick input of a local), we can move any and all listings out of the main article to where they belong. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:40, 3 August 2009 (EDT)

Districts
Moved from Talk:Philadelphia/Center City:

I'm beginning to do some significant work on the Center City district page. I'd like to know if it would be possible to create new pages for the neighborhoods within the CC district, since many of them are distinct and have a lot of restaurants, things to do, etc. within them. For example, Chinatown, Rittenhouse square, Washington Square West, Old City: these different neighborhoods all have many, many different restaurants, etc. within their borders and each have very different things to do and see, not to mention buy. Can we please allow for each of these neighborhoods to have its own page?(WT-en) Valkyrie23 18:27, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

 * Maybe. There are two major concerns with creating (or subdividing) new districts: 1) Borders must be strictly defined. 2) All districts should be able to support a well developed district article (example).  The second concern means that all the standard sections will be filled out nicely when the article is "finished." It's often a good idea to hold off on subdividing until the article being divided is overflowing with content. Maybe it would be a good idea to add content first, split the article later?

 * That said, if you have a good handle on where the street borders for these proposed districts would lie, that would be good to document here, even if we're not going to subdivide the article immediately. Good district breakdowns usually require a lot of thought to get right (example).

 * And no, I don't know anything about Philly's city center ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:46, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

OK, but let's be clear that although a district template will be needed to subdivide the CC page, these are neighborhoods, not districts, and as such are comparatively easy to divide. In fact, many of the "walking" maps of Philadelphia that you see attached to lamp posts downtown already split the city up this way. They're very brightly color-coded; for an example of one, please see this photo and map and for more detail, see this PDF.

When it was designed, CC Philadelphia was laid out like a square, with City Hall in the middle and four parks standing at each corner. Over time the boundaries expanded, so that today CC is defined by the Schuykill river to the west, the Delaware river to the east, South St. to the south, and the Vine St. expressway/I-676 to the north. The dividing lines of the neighborhoods in CC are defined by the streets that intersect at City Hall and bisect this square, Broad Street and Market Street. To the southwest of Broad and Market is the Rittenhouse Square neighborhood; to the southeast, Washington Square West; to the northwest, the Art Museum area; to the northeast, the Chinatown/Convention center area. Old City stands to the east of this square; it is defined by 5th st on the west side, South St. on the south side, Vine St. on the north side, and Front st. on the east side. Now, these boundaries aren't hard and fast, and especially in the last 10 years, CC has started to bleed south and north as neighborhoods are revitalized and feel like a part of CC. It's also true that smaller areas that have a distinct feel exist within these five large neighborhoods. But in general, this is a pretty strong definition of CC neighborhoods, and one which both the city's government and residents recognize.

As for content, the second of the two maps should indicate that each neighborhood has interesting things to see, if not do. And each neighborhood definitely has a wealth of places to eat and drink. CC is overflowing with good restaurants.

Hope this information helps, thanks!--(WT-en) Valkyrie23 12:13, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

I see also that some of the neighborhoods within Center City have been listed as districts in their own right on the main Philadelphia page. This is somewhat confusing. It would be OK, I think to break off Old City and make it a district equal to Center City, but then you've still got the four neighborhoods that meet at City Hall. Washington Square West, for example, should not be a district on the main Philadelphia page. --(WT-en) Valkyrie23 12:36, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

 * Hmm, it's possible that we might have a slight misunderstanding (forgive me if we don't). Wikivoyage only does 4 types of destination guides: country, region, city, & district. So if a neighborhood is to have its own article, then it will be considered a district, and will need to use the district template. Since not all neighborhoods are big/dense enough to merit individual articles, it's often best to roll them into one district article. This is an ok example of how to do that—I shaded the different neighborhoods in on the map, and tried to give some basic overview in the understand section.

 * So all of that is to say that it could be fine to have, say, Chinatown as a district article, linked from the main page. But I don't think it would be a good idea to have "sub-districts." That would bury the content a bit too far, and could make the City Center article redundant. I'm pretty sure that the only times we've used a structure like that are for New York and London. (The former makes some sense, I think, since Brooklyn, Manhattan, etc. can be thought of as separate cities; the latter looks to me like an ad hoc mess.)

 * You can show that separate district articles are all part of Center City on the overview page, by grouping them. The most popular way of doing that is to use the regionlist template (example), although sub-headers would also work just fine. So if we were going to create articles for the neighborhoods of City Center, I think we should then do away with this article.

 * On this topic, I've never been too sure that the Philadelphia districts breakdown was very well thought out—it's certainly hard to digest for someone unfamiliar with the city. If you're feeling up to it, maybe you could take a look over them to make sure they "add up" to the whole of the city, without gaps and without overlap. If we could nail down street boundaries for the various districts, I'd be more than happy to make a Wikivoyage-style districts map, like this one. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 02:32, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

OK, I see what you're saying. Philadelphia is a freakin' huge city. It would be awesome to have a district map like Chicago or DC. I think the general outlines of the districts are pretty hard and fast; it's the neighborhoods within them that might cause some trouble. This map should give you a good visual of how the districts break down. 99.9% of tourists will probably only visit CC and the areas immediately surrounding it, so while I can make the case for including the outer districts, I myself would be hard pressed to come up with content for them. Some areas of the outer districts can be unsavory, if not downright dangerous, and a district like the Northeast seems so far-flung to a CC resident like myself that they hardly seem part of Philadelphia (I'll wait for the abuse to come raining down on me after that statement). So some districts will have many more neighborhoods and info in them than others. I hope that someone else will volunteer to tackle areas like the Northeast or Southwest.

The districts as they stand now are nonsense. Here's my breakdown of where they belong, within the districts as they are described in the map I've linked. There are many neighborhoods that are missing as well, especially in South Philly.

 * Old City, Washington Square West, Art Museum area, South Street--these should all be put in a "Center City" district, along with Rittenhouse Square, and Chinatown/Convention Center.
 * Chestnut Hill, Mt. Airy, Manayunk, East Falls--All these neighborhoods are in the Upper North/Northwest district
 * Northern Liberties, Templetown, North--all in the North district
 * University City, West Philadelphia--in the West district. This is a little tricky, because "West" is the designation for the district west of the Schuykill river, but it's also the neighborhood (often rather rough) that is west of University City; starts around 40th or 45th st.
 * Fishtown--in the Frankford/Kensington district
 * Society Hill/Queen Village--This is a tricky one, but the greatest portion of it lies below South Street, so it's technically in South Philly, I guess. I'm surprised more South Philly neighborhoods haven't been listed here, like Bella Vista, Graduate Hospital, Gray's Ferry.

Let me know the specifics of what you would need to get started on a map. Thanks again! --(WT-en) Valkyrie23 14:57, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

 * Hmm, so just to be sure, you are proposing we use the 11 districts as shown on the linked map, then redirect the neighborhood articles you've listed above as appropriate? If so, I think I can get to work on a map. The one obstacle is that the site doesn't clearly describe the boundaries between districts. Could you perhaps trace the street borders on to a google map like this ? Otherwise, is there another site that will give the exact borders? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:11, 16 June 2009 (EDT)

OK, here's the map I've created on Google. I've narrowed the districts down to seven, which I think is ok. Then I think all neighborhood pages should be redirected. More will have to be added in the northwest and northeast especially, but I can't say for sure which ones they are at the moment. After thinking about this, I think it might be easiest to split Center City up into "Center City West", "Center City East" and Old City, essentially dividing the district into thirds and doubling up the four neighborhoods I've mentioned above. So Rittenhouse Square and Art Museum area would become Center City West, while Chinatown/Convention Center and Washington Square West would become Center City East. Sorry if that's even more confusing.--64.205.0.18 18:00, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

 * Nope, clear as day. I'll get to work ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:49, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

 * Ah, one point of confustion: where to put City Hall. From the map, it looks like it straddles City Center East & City Center West (and four different neighborhoods), since it is in the middle of Broad St. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:06, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

Yep, it is in the middle, so it's a toss up. I myself have always thought of City Hall more as part of the east side of CC than the west.--(WT-en) Valkyrie23 00:50, 18 June 2009 (EDT)

 * How does this map look? Please don't hold back criticism. And would you suggest adding any other roads to the map? The only road I've driven on in the area is I-95, so I don't have a good handle on which to include. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 04:34, 18 June 2009 (EDT)

Center City should be simplified into just Center City East/West. City Hall should be put on the east side because the neighborhood is so closely associated with the Convention Center area. Other than that the map looks fantastic (WT-en) Rouge 20:19, 14 November 2009 (EST)

 * Alright, I think I've righted most of my ignorance of the city, following a cabin fever-inspired and very fun trip (can't believe it's just 2 hrs from D.C. and I've spent so little time here!). My principal worries about the above divisions are that the Upper North, Northeast, and Southwest chapters will be practically empty until someone very knowledgeable about those areas comes along. So here's an updated map, where I propose we merge Southwest into West and Northwest into Upper North. I also followed Rouge's suggestion that we combine CC-East & Old City. We can break all of these apart in the future if we find it makes sense. I'm going to plunge forward now, since I'm full of Philly love at present (South Philly is fun!). --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:12, 30 November 2009 (EST)

 * Scratch that, I'm going to leave Old City in its own article for the time being, as it is already pretty well developed, and seemed (to me) to have plenty enough attractions, hotels, dining, & nightlife to fill a good travel article. --(WT-en) Peter Talk

 * I'm going to vacillate again and split Upper North back into Upper North and Northeast. We already have enough content where neither article will be bare, so we might as well keep them separate now, rather than do it in the future when/if someone knowledgeable starts doing good work on them. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:42, 1 December 2009 (EST)

Tasks
For reference, here are the exact changes being made:

 * South Street, vast majority of Society Hill-Queen Village, → South
 * Penns Landing, → Old City
 * Gayborhood, Washington Square West, Chinatown → CC-East
 * Manayunk, East Falls, Mt Airy, Chestnut Hill → Upper North
 * Far Northeast, Port Richmond → Northeast
 * Art Museum Area, Northern Liberties, Fishtown, Templeton → North
 * Unversity City → West

--(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:04, 30 November 2009 (EST)

 * For reference, I'm putting all listings on Broad St into City Center East, despite it being the boundary between East & West, since it doesn't make sense for someone on Broad St to keep flipping between two print outs depending on which way they're looking. I put it in East because that's where we've put City Hall. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:35, 30 November 2009 (EST)

District borders are well defined here, for future reference. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:11, 2 December 2009 (EST)

Upper North → Northwest
Upper North has been moved to Northwest, per discussion at Talk:Philadelphia/Northwest. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:20, 14 September 2011 (EDT)

Push for guide status
I've finished converting the old sloppy mess into the new districts scheme, and I'm personally quite happy with the current structure. As for the quality of the articles themselves... they're still a mess. Every last one, including the overview article, needs a lot of formatting work and copyediting. Here is what I think needs to happen in order to push Philadelphia towards guide status, rather than mere usable status:

 * All individual listings need to be moved to the appropriate district article—none should be left in the main article
 * All lazy bulleted lists in the main article need to be converted to prose overviews
 * Nearly all district articles need to be thoroughly copyedited and properly formatted

That's only a few tasks, although each will probably be pretty time intensive. Aside from those, all district articles will need basic "get in" info, as well as at least a couple eat and sleep listings. That part will actually be really easy for anyone who knows the city at all. I hope someone takes on these tasks to make a great guide for a great city! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:07, 2 December 2009 (EST)

 * To help provide extra focus, here is the current districts status:

Districts status
Philadelphia is quite far from guide status at this point, but I'm planning to make this my next big project. To get focused, here is the current districts status. They're actually almost all strong usables, although they remain a bit messy following the mass merging of the districting process. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:29, 23 July 2010 (EDT)

Need for Southwest Philadelphia
A district is needed for southwest philadelphia for the ubiquitous airport hotels...or will we put them in West Philadelphia (WT-en) Rouge 12:29, 31 December 2009 (EST)

 * Unless there are other things to see/do in the Southwest, I'd prefer we don't create a district article that will just stay empty. We could perhaps create a subsection of West Philadelphia's sleep section for the airport hotels? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:28, 31 December 2009 (EST)

Some old district text
This was located in the Drinks section for some reason, but doesn't actually say anything specifically pertaining to drinks, and duplicates info that might be better for the district overviews. Moved here temporarily. -- (WT-en) psychofish 10:43, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

Districts

 * South Street - long narrow street in Center City with filled many bars/nightclubs/comedy clubs ranging from "dive" to "respectable". Additionally, there's the "Headhouse Square" on second street just north of south st which is a quaint home to an old market (actually new market is its name) and a number of bars and restaurants.
 * Penn's Landing/Delaware Avenue - Most drinking establishments are nightclubs and loud dance clubs. They are not easy to get to, so having a car helps. This area was once a large player in the nightlife scene before the explosion in nightlife in center city proper.
 * West Philly - many small neighborhood bars and dance clubs, Ethiopian establishments. You'll find Karaoke, blue grass and all around nice nights.
 * University City- This area has seen a dramatic increase in new restaurant and bar establishments in recent years in the areas between Drexel and 40th St., largely around Walnut St. College drinking establishments around/on Walnut, Sansom, Chestnut, and Spruce Sts.
 * Northeast Philly is made up of mostly Irish Catholic neighborhoods, known for pubs, bars, and after hour clubs. Frankford Avenue is home to over 25 bars from Harbison Ave. to Solly Ave. in the Northeast. Rauchet's, Coach's, The COG, Reale's, Casper's, The Last Call, The Aldine, and Tom's Pub and the venerable beer bar Grey Lodge Tavern. Great specials can be found at all of these bars. A cheap way to drink during Phillies or Eagles games is at Coach's, with a $10 all you can drink draft beer special. Paddywhacks is another popular bar in Northeast Philadelphia, located on the Roosevelt Blvd. Paddywhacks also has a location on South St. if the commute to the Northeast is too far. After hours clubs are also available in the Northeast, with the most popular club being the Yik-Yak. The Yik-Yak is open till 3AM and even later for members. The diners along Frankford Ave. are a popular after-hours spot to get something to eat, including the Mayfair Diner, The Red-Robin Diner, and The Dining Car.
 * Northern Liberties is one of the most up and coming neighborhoods in Philadelphia. With recent condos and million dollar housing being built, the real estate in Northern Liberties has sky rocketed, making the scene some-what of a "yuppie" or "hipster" atmosphere. The Piazza, the newest addition to NL, is beautifully landscaped, 80,000 square foot open-air plaza with free events year-round, surrounded by three new buildings including 35 artist’s studios and boutiques, four new restaurants, 500 apartments and 50,000 square feet of office space. The Piazza is a sight to be seen in Philadelphia, surrounded by night life, restaurants, and even a bar/bowling alley, North Bowl. Northern Liberties is a great place to drink and socialize while living or visiting Philadelphia.
 * Art Museum Area-includes the neighborhoods of Spring Garden and Fairmount near the Art Museum. these neighborhoods are home to a number of establishments primarily on or just off Fairmount Ave (which runs to the museum). London and Rembrandt'sare both long time bars dating back a century or more, complete with tiles, tin ceilings, troughs and cater to a diverse crowd (which means attention is paid to beer AND wine as well as food). there are a number of other notable places such as Brigid's (the city's original beer bar), Belgian Cafe (sister of Monk's), St. Stephen's Green, and the ancient dive bar (with beautiful tile work) Kelli Ann's.
 * Passyunk Ave-this street which runs from 5th and South to the schuylkill expressway, the former and commercial district in South Philly, has recently come alive at night with old timers such as Marra's serving wine and pizza and newcomers such as Pub on Passyunk East, Cantina, Royal Tavern, Lucky 13, two capogrio gelato shops, coffee shops,etc. Distinct sections are part of Queen Village/Bella Vista (5th to Washington ave) and Passyunk Sq (Dickinson to Snyder]. West of Broad has shown some signs of new nightlife but is largely commercial.
 * Center City-technically vine to south, river to river, is home to what seems like an ever increasing number of watering holes and has become the region's premier nightlife destination. It has a number of submarkets including, but not limited to:
 * Old City-This is the area that deflated Delaware Avenue. It's chock full of restaurants, bars, and clubs like Cuba Libre, Eulogy Belgian Tavern, Race St Cafe, Fork, Amada (renowned spanish bar and restaurant), National Mechanics Bank, Triumph brewpub, and many, many more.
 * 13th st-once the city's red light district that was a veritable flea market from vine to pine it has blossomed into a growing nightlife destination (mainly south of market) including el Vez, Vintage wine bar, Sampan, Zavino pizza, Time absinthe, whiskey, and beer bar, the original capogiro gelato, bindi Indian fusion, Amis roman style trattoria, and many more.
 * West of Broad-the city's most developed section includes the venerable Monk's Belgian Cafe, Parc restaurant on Rittenhouse Sq, Rouge, Village Whiskey, and the Oyster House and probably a hundred more.

 * I agree the prose could be better, but it's not like nothing is said about bars and nightlife. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 11:55, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

 * Actually, I do think this is somewhat along the lines of what we want—information about the nightlife scene around town (in addition to information on local beverages). For inspiration, you might find it useful to take a look at Chicago, or perhaps Washington, D.C.. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:45, 19 June 2010 (EDT)

 * Yes, I take that back about not saying anything about bars and nightlife (don't know what I was thinking) but basically I just found the whole thing to be unwieldy, and too scattered to work as an overview. Working on this section specifically, especially with districts I'm personally not too familar with, is going to be tough but I'll be giving it a shot over the next week or so. --(WT-en) psychofish 17:26, 24 June 2010 (EDT)

Old City not in Center City
Why is it implied that Old City is not part of Center City. I'm not a local, but I thought it was; among other reasons the city government considers it to be part (page 21). Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:49, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

thease maps also seem to show CC as extending from the Delaware to the Schuylkill rivers. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 01:57, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Alternative banner for this article?
In the Hebrew Wikivoyage we are currently using this banner instead of the one which is currently used here. Do you think too that this banner would would better than the existing one? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 02:04, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Thank you, but I prefer the current banner, which I find a more unique view. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:11, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

 * I also prefer the current one for the same reason. Simple skyline shots for every city get very repetitive and same-same. Texugo (talk) 02:16, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Both OK for me. • • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 20:14, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Much prefer the top picture. Cityscapes tend to take the intrigue out of destinations and make them all look the same to me. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:08, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

History Section: Center City and Philadelphia pre-1854
I disagree with this edit. Philadelphia as we know it today is not just Center City, it's the whole of Philadelphia County. Center City is part of Philadelphia County, and has been since 1681. Allso the traveler doesn't need an in death look on the history of Philadelphia's political terminology and political organization, that just makes things confusing. We can only put so much into the history section anyway, and we shouldn't use that limited space to excessively cover political terminology/organization. What the traveler needs to know is that what we today call "Philadelphia" was called "Philadelphia County" before 1854, and that what we today call "Center City" was called "Philadelphia" before 1854. We should explain that clearly. The bit about Philadelphia having once been considered multiple cities is of interest too, it's worth mencining, but like I said the reader can do without an in death look at the history of Philadelphia's political terminology. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 08:47, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

 * The edit was indented to correct what were largely incorrect statements. Philadelphia was considered a single city- the city of Philadelphia at the time consisted of roughly what is today center city. Philadelphia the city was not, as the original statement implied, multiple cities. Philadelphia County was a separate governing body that encompassed the city of Philadelphia along with additional townships, boroughs, etc. In addition, the fact that Philadelphia the city and Philadelphia County were separate governing bodies had nothing to do with Philadelphia being the capital, as the statement also implies.
 * I would agree, though, that it may not have written in the best possible way. It probably has to much detail at some parts, making it confusing. In addition, when it begins with "Philadelphia as we know it today consisted roughly of center city"- that was intended to mean Philadelphia the city itself; that should have been worded better. So yes, I believe it should be edited, but it needs to be factually accurate. At the same time, the fact that Philadelphia the city was expanded to include multiple other towns should be mentioned, as it is an integral part of the layout and fabric of the city that exits today. Mike R (talk)

 * You're arguing semanticists; the statements weren't incorrect, they simply used present-day terminology (and the article makes it clear that present-day terminology is used). The area that was at the time called "Philadelphia" was considered a single city, but the area that was called "Philadelphia" then is not the area that is called "Philadelphia" today. In present-day terminology, the area "between the Delaware and Schuylkill Rivers and north to south between Vine and South Streets" is called "Center City" not "Philadelphia", and "Philadelphia" refers to the whole county and not just Center City.

 * There's more to my argument then just that, but before we get into that, there's something I want to see if we're on the same page on. The way I see it neither of our statements are incorrect. We're saying the exact same thing (except that you went into more detail), in two different ways, and with somewhat different terminology. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 03:58, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

 * One more thing, did you see the second paragraph in the understand section. It explains that present-day terminology is used, and puts my version of the History section into context. Taken out of context, I can see how it could appear incorrect. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 04:02, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

 * I'm surprised the edit in question remained unchanged until now. I've done my best to correct it (I also deleted a link to a secondary source, which is not in keeping with this site's policy on external links). The only possible issue I see is that there could be redundancy now between the intro to "Understand" and the "History" section. Emmette and Mike, would you like to try your hand at editing the current version? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:41, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

New alternative banner for this article?
I created a new alternative banner for this article (I initially created it first and foremost so that it would be used at the top of the parallel article in the Hebrew edition of Wikivoyage, yet I later decided to also suggest that the English Wikivoyage community would consider using it here as well). So, which banner do you prefer having at the top of this article? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 04:20, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * No way on this one. The current banner is terrific and the new one is just OK. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:48, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * The new banner is very obviously a panorama with uncorrected distortion, which is ugly and jarring. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:05, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I have to gree with Andre. PrinceGloria (talk) 14:19, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Me too. Danapit (talk) 18:06, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Current Syced (talk) 07:46, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Drink
Should I add the citywide special to the drink section? I live in Philly and i see this everywhere, it consists of a shot of house whiskey with a can or bottle of light beer, usually Pabst Blue Ribbon or Miller Lite. Should it look like this?

 * You can also order a "Citywide Special", which is a shot of house whiskey with a can or bottle of light lager usually Pabst Blue Ribbon or Miller Lite.

Nusent (talk) 18:33, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

 * Sure. Put it at the beginning of the "Drink" section. If there are any other drinks particularly associated with Philadelphia, you could create a "Local specialties" subsection if you like. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:50, 12 February 2019 (UTC)

Metadata Picture
Should we change the main article's picture? Currently is the International Airport, not very appealing. You can see by going to another article that references this and hover the mouse over the link. —The preceding comment was added by 68.163.48.254 (talk • contribs)

 * Welcome, and please sign your username at the end of each edit to a talk (discussion) page by typing 4 tildes (~) in a row at the end. My answer would be that the picture of the airport is not the article's main picture but its 6th picture. When I hover over the linked name of this article, the 1st photo, of the city's skyline, is the one I see. If I hover over the linked name of the article about the airport, I see the photo you mention. If you see that as a problem, look at the images currently in that article and see what you can do, but it doesn't seem like an inappropriate image of an airport. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:01, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

Lehigh Valley Airport
The description says "Lehigh Valley International Airport in Allentown is the best option for those traveling to the Lehigh Valley, and is located roughly 60 miles north of Philadelphia." But this is the Philadelphia article, so presumably no-one is reading this article in order to travel to the Lehigh Valley. Would anyone go to this airport in order to get to Philadelphia, or should we delete the mention of it? And if they would get to Philadelphia that way, how would they get there from the airport? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:56, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Philadelphia


text:
Talk:Philadelphia/Center City

Neighborhoods in Center City
I'm beginning to do some significant work on the Center City district page. I'd like to know if it would be possible to create new pages for the neighborhoods within the CC district, since many of them are distinct and have a lot of restaurants, things to do, etc. within them. For example, Chinatown, Rittenhouse square, Washington Square West, Old City: these different neighborhoods all have many, many different restaurants, etc. within their borders and each have very different things to do and see, not to mention buy. Can we please allow for each of these neighborhoods to have its own page?(WT-en) Valkyrie23 18:27, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

 * Maybe. There are two major concerns with creating (or subdividing) new districts: 1) Borders must be strictly defined. 2) All districts should be able to support a well developed district article (example).  The second concern means that all the standard sections will be filled out nicely when the article is "finished." It's often a good idea to hold off on subdividing until the article being divided is overflowing with content. Maybe it would be a good idea to add content first, split the article later?

 * That said, if you have a good handle on where the street borders for these proposed districts would lie, that would be good to document here, even if we're not going to subdivide the article immediately. Good district breakdowns usually require a lot of thought to get right (example).

 * And no, I don't know anything about Philly's city center ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:46, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

OK, but let's be clear that although a district template will be needed to subdivide the CC page, these are neighborhoods, not districts, and as such are comparatively easy to divide. In fact, many of the "walking" maps of Philadelphia that you see attached to lamp posts downtown already split the city up this way. They're very brightly color-coded; for an example of one, please see this photo and map and for more detail, see this PDF.

When it was designed, CC Philadelphia was laid out like a square, with City Hall in the middle and four parks standing at each corner. Over time the boundaries expanded, so that today CC is defined by the Schuykill river to the west, the Delaware river to the east, South St. to the south, and the Vine St. expressway/I-676 to the north. The dividing lines of the neighborhoods in CC are defined by the streets that intersect at City Hall and bisect this square, Broad Street and Market Street. To the southwest of Broad and Market is the Rittenhouse Square neighborhood; to the southeast, Washington Square West; to the northwest, the Art Museum area; to the northeast, the Chinatown/Convention center area. Old City stands to the east of this square; it is defined by 5th st on the west side, South St. on the south side, Vine St. on the north side, and Front st. on the east side. Now, these boundaries aren't hard and fast, and especially in the last 10 years, CC has started to bleed south and north as neighborhoods are revitalized and feel like a part of CC. It's also true that smaller areas that have a distinct feel exist within these five large neighborhoods. But in general, this is a pretty strong definition of CC neighborhoods, and one which both the city's government and residents recognize.

As for content, the second of the two maps should indicate that each neighborhood has interesting things to see, if not do. And each neighborhood definitely has a wealth of places to eat and drink. CC is overflowing with good restaurants.

Hope this information helps, thanks!--(WT-en) Valkyrie23 12:13, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

I see also that some of the neighborhoods within Center City have been listed as districts in their own right on the main Philadelphia page. This is somewhat confusing. It would be OK, I think to break off Old City and make it a district equal to Center City, but then you've still got the four neighborhoods that meet at City Hall. Washington Square West, for example, should not be a district on the main Philadelphia page. --(WT-en) Valkyrie23 12:36, 11 June 2009 (EDT)

 * Hmm, it's possible that we might have a slight misunderstanding (forgive me if we don't). Wikivoyage only does 4 types of destination guides: country, region, city, & district. So if a neighborhood is to have its own article, then it will be considered a district, and will need to use the district template. Since not all neighborhoods are big/dense enough to merit individual articles, it's often best to roll them into one district article. This is an ok example of how to do that—I shaded the different neighborhoods in on the map, and tried to give some basic overview in the understand section.

 * So all of that is to say that it could be fine to have, say, Chinatown as a district article, linked from the main page. But I don't think it would be a good idea to have "sub-districts." That would bury the content a bit too far, and could make the City Center article redundant. I'm pretty sure that the only times we've used a structure like that are for New York and London. (The former makes some sense, I think, since Brooklyn, Manhattan, etc. can be thought of as separate cities; the latter looks to me like an ad hoc mess.)

 * You can show that separate district articles are all part of Center City on the overview page, by grouping them. The most popular way of doing that is to use the regionlist template (example), although sub-headers would also work just fine. So if we were going to create articles for the neighborhoods of City Center, I think we should then do away with this article.

 * On this topic, I've never been too sure that the Philadelphia districts breakdown was very well thought out—it's certainly hard to digest for someone unfamiliar with the city. If you're feeling up to it, maybe you could take a look over them to make sure they "add up" to the whole of the city, without gaps and without overlap. If we could nail down street boundaries for the various districts, I'd be more than happy to make a Wikivoyage-style districts map, like this one. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 02:32, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

OK, I see what you're saying. Philadelphia is a freakin' huge city. It would be awesome to have a district map like Chicago or DC. I think the general outlines of the districts are pretty hard and fast; it's the neighborhoods within them that might cause some trouble. This map should give you a good visual of how the districts break down. 99.9% of tourists will probably only visit CC and the areas immediately surrounding it, so while I can make the case for including the outer districts, I myself would be hard pressed to come up with content for them. Some areas of the outer districts can be unsavory, if not downright dangerous, and a district like the Northeast seems so far-flung to a CC resident like myself that they hardly seem part of Philadelphia (I'll wait for the abuse to come raining down on me after that statement). So some districts will have many more neighborhoods and info in them than others. I hope that someone else will volunteer to tackle areas like the Northeast or Southwest.

The districts as they stand now are nonsense. Here's my breakdown of where they belong, within the districts as they are described in the map I've linked. There are many neighborhoods that are missing as well, especially in South Philly.

 * Old City, Washington Square West, Art Museum area, South Street--these should all be put in a "Center City" district, along with Rittenhouse Square, and Chinatown/Convention Center.
 * Chestnut Hill, Mt. Airy, Manayunk, East Falls--All these neighborhoods are in the Upper North/Northwest district
 * Northern Liberties, Templetown, North--all in the North district
 * University City, West Philadelphia--in the West district. This is a little tricky, because "West" is the designation for the district west of the Schuykill river, but it's also the neighborhood (often rather rough) that is west of University City; starts around 40th or 45th st.
 * Fishtown--in the Frankford/Kensington district
 * Society Hill/Queen Village--This is a tricky one, but the greatest portion of it lies below South Street, so it's technically in South Philly, I guess. I'm surprised more South Philly neighborhoods haven't been listed here, like Bella Vista, Graduate Hospital, Gray's Ferry.

Let me know the specifics of what you would need to get started on a map. Thanks again! --(WT-en) Valkyrie23 14:57, 12 June 2009 (EDT)

 * Hmm, so just to be sure, you are proposing we use the 11 districts as shown on the linked map, then redirect the neighborhood articles you've listed above as appropriate? If so, I think I can get to work on a map. The one obstacle is that the site doesn't clearly describe the boundaries between districts. Could you perhaps trace the street borders on to a google map like this ? Otherwise, is there another site that will give the exact borders? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:11, 16 June 2009 (EDT)

OK, here's the map I've created on Google. I've narrowed the districts down to seven, which I think is ok. Then I think all neighborhood pages should be redirected. More will have to be added in the northwest and northeast especially, but I can't say for sure which ones they are at the moment. After thinking about this, I think it might be easiest to split Center City up into "Center City West", "Center City East" and Old City, essentially dividing the district into thirds and doubling up the four neighborhoods I've mentioned above. So Rittenhouse Square and Art Museum area would become Center City West, while Chinatown/Convention Center and Washington Square West would become Center City East. Sorry if that's even more confusing.--64.205.0.18 18:00, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

 * Nope, clear as day. I'll get to work ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:49, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

 * Ah, one point of confustion: where to put City Hall. From the map, it looks like it straddles City Center East & City Center West (and four different neighborhoods), since it is in the middle of Broad St. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:06, 17 June 2009 (EDT)

Yep, it is in the middle, so it's a toss up. I myself have always thought of City Hall more as part of the east side of CC than the west.--(WT-en) Valkyrie23 00:50, 18 June 2009 (EDT)

 * How does this map look? Please don't hold back criticism. And would you suggest adding any other roads to the map? The only road I've driven on in the area is I-95, so I don't have a good handle on which to include. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 04:34, 18 June 2009 (EDT)

Center City should be simplified into just Center City East/West. City Hall should be put on the east side because the neighborhood is so closely associated with the Convention Center area. Other than that the map looks fantastic (WT-en) Rouge 20:19, 14 November 2009 (EST)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Philadelphia/Center City


text:
Talk:Philadelphia/Far Northeast

Should this not be merged into Philadelphia/Northeast Philadelphia?? -- (WT-en) Tim 09:02, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Philadelphia/Far Northeast


text:
Talk:Philadelphia/Manayunk

www.manayunk.com links
Though I read carefully the Wikivoyage:Article templates# Where did the "External links" sections go? part in the past — and did so again a few minutes ago, I could not see what made the anonymous 61.47.110.57 editor think the addition of the sole reference to the district, Welcome to Manayunk, contravenes the holy rules. Please consider that there are too few information available about Manayunk to indulge in deleting, somewhat blindly — the link given. Is it undesirable as a external link, so be it! But it may be set somewhere on this page. I'm sure not the only one who would have liked to have this information BEFORE I got there and walk past local resources without even seeing them... It's sometimes useful to think adequately instead of applying general rules to a single case, ain't it? (WT-en) Korenyuk 19:22, 15 June 2007 (EDT)

 * The Project:External links page explains the guidelines in detail and why they are so strict. If you think the www.manayunk.com link(s) don't conflict with the policy, try explaining why here on this page. If you think the policy is wrong, try explaining why on the Wikivoyage Talk:External links page. ~ 58.8.1.171 20:04, 15 June 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Philadelphia/Manayunk


text:
Talk:Philadelphia/North

While a lot of criminals do use I-95 as an escape route, it should be noted that a lot of the criminals live in the neighborhoods themselves. Think about it: If you have a car, you're going to go where the money is, and you're not going to rob people in North Philadelphia who most likely don't have much to rob.

title: Talk:Philadelphia/North


text:
Talk:Philadelphia/Northwest

What is this about Manayunk being 25 miles from the suburbs? That is the most poorly written statement I've ever read. "The suburbs" is not a singular point or a specific town; it is a sprawling area that runs from just across the Delaware River from Trenton all the way down to the Delaware border and into northern Delaware and Maryland. And that's just northeast-southwest. Someone in Bucks or southern Chester or Delaware Counties will have no use for these directions. You can't name a road for them to turn on to without a common starting point, and that point may not be anywhere near where they are. I'll come in and fix it later but that kind of thing shouldn't be written here. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 98.225.164.229 (talk • contribs) 16:57, 17 November 2010

 * Plunge forward! --(WT-en) globe-trotter 18:34, 17 November 2010 (EST)

I don't know how to do this or I'd do it myself, but you really need to change the name of this article to "Northwest," not "Upper North." Upper North is the Temple University Hospital area, Logan, Fern Rock, Olney, and East and West Oak Lane. If someone goes to Philadelphia and asks how to get to Upper North Philadelphia, they will get directions to a neighborhood they should not be in. I would recommend dividing the Upper North section of the map into Upper North and Northwest. Northwest would essentially be a wedge the runs north of Roosevelt Blvd and roughly west of, say, 20th street, although that boundary is not definite. The rest will remain in the Upper North territory, which should not have an article. Again, I don't know how to change the map or I'd do it myself. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 98.225.164.229 (talk • contribs) 11:58, 19 November 2010

 * Would that require splitting the article into two (Upper North & Northwest)? If so, I would be less enthusiastic, simply because I suspect one of them would wind up kind of empty (let me know if you disagree!). Or would it be OK to just subsume Upper North under the name Northwest? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 10:53, 20 November 2010 (EST)

Well yes, but like I said, you're essentially putting people in danger if you're including that entire area of the map in your description of places they might want to visit, and more than that it's intellectually dishonest. If you want to write about Philadelphia, then write about Philadelphia, not about the way you wish it were. The fact is that nobody visiting the city should be in what is really "Upper North." Roxborough, Manayunk, East Falls, Mt. Airy, Germantown, and Chestnut Hill are not referred to or considered by anybody in the Philadelphia area as "Upper North" Philadelphia, more often the "Wissahickon Valley" or "Northwest Philadelphia," although even those terms are not used very often. The fact is that for most people the area doesn't have a cohesive name that applies to all neighborhoods, but Upper North is certainly not one you should use. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 68.42.17.94 (talk • contribs)

 * That all sounds fair. I'm inferring that it would be best to rename this article simply Northwest (since there isn't a better name for this amalgamation), and both note in article that the neighborhoods south and of Roosevelt and 20th respectively are in a high crime, dangerous area. If so, I'll make the updates. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:59, 28 July 2011 (EDT)

 * And done. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:19, 14 September 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Philadelphia/Northwest


text:
Talk:Philadelphia/Old City

So I don't know the city at all-- is the Old City really different from Philadelphia/Center City? Some of the stuff I'm reading suggests that the Old City is a subsection of Center City... someone wanna help me out? (WT-en) Majnoona 15:07, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * Old City really is its own thing. I belive there is an actual civic distinction between Center City and Old City - as you walk the streets you will see banners for the "Old City District."  Most importantly for this site - it is certainly a separate destination from Center City.  I'm not sure what from the Philadelphia/Center City article is leading you to believe that it is a subsection.  In actuality, Society Hill and Old City are generally mentioned together (rather than Center City and Society Hill as the other article does), and Washington Square may really be a subsection of Society Hill (I'm more familiar with Old City).  As in many cases, the borders are somewhat blurry, but the different places are definitely distinct.  --(WT-en) M0nstr42 15:06, 4 August 2006 (EDT)

I am - as well - not familiar with the city and was wondering where I'd actually have to go to get to the Old City. Can someone add information about the location (which streets border the Old City), walking distances from other locations and possibly a metro stop? Thanks. -- (WT-en) hscholz 16:00, 28 Feb 2008 (CET)

Link Issues
What's with the links? There are tons of weird numbered links that take you to unknown wiki pages. I think whomever edited them was trying to create offsite links but didn't do it correctly. Should there be individual pages on each featured attraction then a link from there? Or... what? (WT-en) Magnoliasouth 03:26, 14 June 2009 (EDT)

 * They are missing the "http://" --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:30, 14 June 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Philadelphia/Old City


text:
Talk:Philadelphia/West

Links in listings
Please see Project:External links for more details on how to format urls in listings. (WT-en) Majnoona 15:40, 21 Jan 2006 (EST) djndjndlnfsvs

Deleted Eat listings
Entries removed, plus reasons why. -- (WT-en) psychofish 04:49, 30 June 2010 (EDT)

 * Ben and Jerry's (218 S. 40th Street) nationwide chain, not worth mentioning in a travel guide
 * Best House Pizzeria (4301 Baltimore Ave) not very well rated, and otherwise not very interesting as pizza is a commonly available food in philly, but if someone wants to make a case for this place, go ahead and put it back
 * Senegalese Restaurant. Vegan friendly. sit down dining is closed, it seems they only do catering now. entry kept here in case this ever changes
 * Mediterranean Restaurant - Bitar Vegan Friendly not located in West Philly - actually in South Philly
 * Qdoba Mexican Grill  nationwide chain

title: Talk:Philadelphia/West


text:
Talk:Philadelphia Region

Birthplace
Regarding this edit, do note that both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were drafted in Philadelphia. I'm certain that's what was meant by "birthplace". (WT-en) LtPowers 11:23, 7 December 2011 (EST)
 * Fair enough, but "cradle" doesn't seem controversial to me. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 11:33, 7 December 2011 (EST)
 * It's not, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. It is, however, somewhat more ambiguous in meaning than "birthplace", as lots of places can claim to be "cradles" of some such or other.  (WT-en) LtPowers 13:45, 9 December 2011 (EST)

Nine cities
There should be only nine cities listed in the Cities section. Which ones? Powers (talk) 23:12, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

 * Very well. Each county seat? Philadelphia, Norristown (Montgomery), West Chester (Chester), Media (Delaware), Doylestown (Bucks), Allentown (Lehigh), Easton (Northampton), and Reading (Berks). And add Bethlehem, which is not a county seat because it part of two counties, to make nine? I could see an argument for replacing Media with Chester and Doylestown with Bensalem. Thoughts? Memberx0 (talk) 14:29, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know the region at all, but in general we should try to choose the 9 cities most relevant to travellers. That can be because of sights or transportation hubs or whatever. Administrative reasons (such as that they are county seats) are less important. JuliasTravels (talk) 14:34, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

 * Okay. The three cities with airports that are also the centers of their respective MSAs: Philadelphia, Reading, and Allentown. Bethlehem and Chester for all the casino visitors coming in from out of state (and frankly, as a soft encouragement for others to improve that Chester article). Then, I guess King of Prussia for the Valley Forge historic site & shopping. New Hope seems to have developed itself into a nice B&B community, but I think it might be better suited to the 'other destination' section. I would entertain an argument for West Chester's inclusion, but I personally think it probably falls short of being relevant to most travelers. Memberx0 (talk) 14:46, 14 July 2015 (UTC)

 * Strictly speaking, "Other Destinations" is for destinations that aren't communities (like parks). So New Hope wouldn't belong there. We might be able to fudge it a bit and put King of Prussia in that section, though, if we hide it behind a link to Valley Forge. But it sounds like there's plenty of room under Cities, so we don't need to do that. So we've got Philly, Reading, Allentown, Bethlehem, Chester, and King of Prussia. That's six; we could add New Hope and West Chester, but I can't say one way or the other if they're important. Powers (talk) 00:28, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

 * Well, right now, Honey Brook and Kutztown, both described as "small towns" are in "Other destinations," which is wrong. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:39, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I'd agree with simply moving these to the "cities" section for now. The problem is that some people assume the "cities" section includes only cities and not towns and villages, so they add towns and villages to "other destinations." I've seen dozens of region articles across WV that list towns as other destinations. I wonder if we should change this heading to make it easier to understand. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 17:19, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Done. I agree with your idea, but I'm not sure how best to accomplish that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:58, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I deleted Honey Brook to reduce the number of "Cities" to 9, but I still think the Lehigh Valley is not part of the Philadelphia Region, so I would remove Allentown, Bethlehem and Easton. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:02, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

[unindent] By the way, this is the current lineup:

 * — Pennsylvania's third largest city is the center of the Lehigh Valley region and home of Dorney Park & Wildwater Kingdom.
 * — Originally settled by Moravian missionaries, Pennsylvania's seventh largest city was once a major center for the U.S. steel industry. Now, the city is home to a vibrant arts scene and Pennsylvania's largest casino.
 * — A struggling city located between Philadelphia and Wilmington, the city's redeveloping waterfront is home to a casino and a Major League Soccer team.
 * — Home of Valley Forge National Historic Park and one of the largest malls in the United States.
 * — A popular culinary destination accessible by SEPTA regional rail in neighboring Delaware County.
 * — Pennsylvania's largest city is the birthplace of American democracy and home of the cheesesteak.
 * — As the urban center of mostly rural Berks County, Pennsylvania's fifth largest city hosts a number of cultural festivals each year.
 * — Pennsylvania's largest city is the birthplace of American democracy and home of the cheesesteak.
 * — As the urban center of mostly rural Berks County, Pennsylvania's fifth largest city hosts a number of cultural festivals each year.

No New Hope and no West Chester, but the small college town of Kutztown is included. Is this the best lineup of cities for the region? Also note that a couple of cities need 1-liner listings. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:05, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Allentown in the Philadelphia region
At this time of night (almost 3:30 AM), it's 64 miles and an estimated 1 hr 6 minutes' drive from Allentown to Philadelphia, and it's 94 miles and an estimated 1 hr 51 minutes' drive from Allentown to New York. I feel like the Lehigh Valley is not really part of either city's metropolitan area, though the situation is complicated. According to Lehigh Valley:

The Lehigh Valley (/ˈliːhaɪ/), known officially by the United States Census Bureau and the United States Office of Management and Budget[3] as the Allentown–Bethlehem–Easton, PA-NJ Metropolitan Statistical Area and referred to colloquially as The Valley,[4] is a metropolitan region officially consisting of Carbon, Lehigh, and Northampton counties in eastern Pennsylvania and Warren County in northwestern New Jersey.[5] The Lehigh Valley's largest city, with a population of 125,845 residents as of the 2020 U.S. Census, is Allentown.[6] Within the Lehigh Valley, Lehigh and Northampton Counties are part of Philadelphia's designated media market, Warren County is part of New York City's media market, and Carbon County belongs to the Wilkes-Barre–Scranton–Hazleton media market.

So it's its own metropolitan area. However:

''The Lehigh Valley is located approximately 60 mi (97 km) north of Philadelphia, 80 mi (130 km) northeast of Harrisburg, and 90 mi (140 km) west of New York City, the country's largest city. The area is home to more than 820,000 people as of the 2010 U.S. Census. Recent census studies show it to be the fastest-growing region in Pennsylvania, due in part to its growing popularity as a bedroom community for the highly populated neighboring regions of Philadelphia, New Jersey and New York City as well as its favorable business climate and much lower cost of living in comparison to surrounding areas.[27]''

So there are people who commute from there to Philadephia, New Jersey and New York City.

All things being equal, I would spin it off from this region. However, if we do that, which region of Pennsylvania should it be moved to? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:37, 29 December 2021 (UTC)

 * I still think the Lehigh Valley is not part of this region, and in fact, I started removing information about it from this article until I noticed that it wasn't recently added. Can we please do something about this? Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:59, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * There is a discussion on Pennsylvania regions underway at Talk:Pennsylvania. I think this would be better addressed there. Ground Zero (talk) 01:04, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Philadelphia Region


text:
Talk:Philae

Philae
Archived from the Project:Votes for deletion page:

 * Delete or redirect. Similar to above. An attraction near Aswan without anywhere to stay etc. -- (WT-en) DanielC 08:11, 18 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Redirect to Agilkia Island. -- (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 08:12, 18 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Delete. -- (WT-en) Tim 09:05, 18 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Redirect to Aswan. -- (WT-en) Ryan 14:02, 28 August 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Philae


text:
Talk:Philippines

7+2
Other destinations has 10 entries violating the 7+2 rule, I've never been to the country and do not which should be removed so can someone else remove one. Tai123.123 (talk) 22:54, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

 * I think has a lot of experience with the Philippines, and so does . I've also never been here, so I also can't really comment. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:59, 3 October 2021 (UTC)

 * I agree the list should be trimmed. Certainly Boracay, El Nido, Puerto Galera & Panglao Island should stay; those are some of the country's major resort areas. Not sure about the rest.
 * To me, linking to Tagatay here seems like a mistake; it is a city so should not be under "Other destinations" & it is not even an important city. A direct link to Taal Volcano, which is a major tourist attraction & usually reached via Tagatay, would make sense, though. Pashley (talk) 05:15, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
 * If I had to choose, I'd remove Batangas. I'm living there & it is an interesting province, but so are lots of others. Also, it is hardly a single destination & the interesting places within it can be mentioned elsewhere. Pashley (talk) 05:30, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I added Taal Volcano under Philippines so perhaps it could be deleted here, though I'd be inclined to keep it. Pashley (talk) 06:17, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I’m in favor of replacing Tagaytay with Taal Volcano. Batangas can go. Mayon Volcano can be listed in place of Camarines Sur.-TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 18:59, 4 October 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ Done. Pashley (talk) 23:10, 4 October 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:37, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Bacolod City Hall at night.jpg
 * Used at the Wikidata page, no FoP. Seems to be a clear case that doesn't affect us. –LPfi (talk) 10:56, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

City names
We currently have this text:
 * With the possible exception of Manila, it is fairly common for Filipinos to add the "City" suffix to the city name, but Wikivoyage rather avoids that practice as unnecessarily redundant, except when disambiguation is necessary. Cities sharing a name with a province (including former ones) are generally named in Wikivoyage as [city name] (city) (e.g. Cebu City is Cebu (city)), especially when the predominant local usage is generally the simple but ambiguous name.

I disagree. I just moved Cebu (city) to Cebu City. My rationale is at Talk:Cebu_City. I'd move Iloilo (city) & Batangas (city) as well; there are likely more but none leap to mind just now. I see we have Quezon City, which I think is correct. In general, I'd use the "X City" form wherever there is a city/province ambiguity. As far as I can tell, locals invariably use either that or just the bare name.

For Zamboanga (city), the ambiguity is more complex; Zamboanga Peninsula has three provinces, all with "Zamboanga" in their names. I'd like to move the city article to Z City, but am less certain here.

On the other hand, we have articles like Bais City which use that form when I cannot see any need for it since there is no ambiguity; I'd move it to just Bais.

Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 03:40, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

 * I think that text dates back to the time when the article about New York City was "New York (city)." We need no other standard than whatever name is most commonly used in English, as per Naming conventions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:19, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

 * "As far as I can tell, locals invariably use either that [X City] or just the bare name." I think that in cases where "X" is the name of a province and "X City" is commonly used, we could use "X City" even when "X" is more common, to avoid the "(city)" disambiguation suffix. Only when the for "X City" is uncommon to the point of confusing locals, I think we need to resort to formal disambiguation. This is analogue to New York, where we use "New York City" even though "New York" is the more common name. –LPfi (talk) 11:36, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

 * New York is the more common name only when there is no likelihood of confusion between the city and state. New York City is the most common name when there could be any ambiguity. And the formal name is "City of New York." Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:00, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

 * I removed the paragraph. Pashley (talk) 01:02, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

 * Support renaming all that you think are appropriate per Naming conventions and the policy to use the most common name. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 08:36, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

 * I renamed Bais & fixed all the links pointing to the old name, though I left it in place as a redirect.
 * Renamed Batangas City & Iloilo City, did partial link fixes. Other fixes do not seem urgent. Pashley (talk) 04:41, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * For Zamboanga, I asked at Talk:Zamboanga_(city). Pashley (talk) 04:46, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Only one comment after several months & it was in favour, so I have now done the move. Pashley (talk) 14:29, 12 March 2023 (UTC)

Senior ID?
There are senior discounts for many things, perhaps most important to travellers restaurants, at least some hotels, & most domestic transport. You may not need ID for some of these (I've never been asked on a bus or ferry) & some restaurants will accept the ACR card which any foreigner who stays longer than two months must get. Most will not accept any foreign ID, not even passport.

Ideally one would get the Philippine Senior ID Card, but I am not sure what we could say about that:
 * One government web site says it is only for citizens.
 * When I asked at a local office, they said citizenship was not an issue but only those with residency visas were eligible, not available on a tourist visa.
 * Some barangay officials came to visit on my birthday & seemed shocked that I did not have it. They said neither citizenship nor visa type mattered, only that I lived in their barangay. They said they could get it for me, & did.
 * Some people on Facebook claimed that a foreigner using that card could be fined & deported.

I'm confused. Has anyone got better info? Pashley (talk) 02:18, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

COVID advice
The COVID box at Philippines says:
 * Entry to the Philippines is open to travelers who have been vaccinated against COVID-19 ... Such travelers must test negative for COVID-19 within 48 hours of departure ...
 * Foreign nationals that are not fully vaccinated will be denied entry into the Philippines.

Embassy in US says vaccination certificate is no longer required. I'm not certain testing ever was; I last entered the country in October 2022 and did not need it; neither the airline nor border officials asked. Pashley (talk) 04:44, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The information in the article is probably out of date. If so, it should be removed or updated. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:18, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Bridges?
There are news stories about a possible Cebu–Bohol Bridge & I've seen some about bridges from Cebu Island to Negros and Negros to Panay. Likely there are others that I have not heard about.

Are any of these real possibilities? Likely to be completed soon? My guess would be not this decade, but some news stories had President Marcos promising some would be done during his term, i.e. before 2028. Pashley (talk) 02:23, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

Questionable addition
recently added:
 * Ethnic Chinese are often the target of kidnapping for ransom due to the stereotype that Chinese people are rich (many of the large Filipino companies are owned by ethnic Chinese). In many cases, the victims are killed after the ransom is paid.

I want to revert. It appears to refer to Filipinos of Chinese ancestry, in which case it has little to do with travel.

Certainly travellers perceived as rich -- I think mainly Westerners & Japanese -- are targets for scammers, thieves, women who want a rich boyfriend, and legitimate but overpriced businesses like some restaurants and resorts. However, I've never heard of them being kidnapped. How could a kidnapper collect the ransom if they grabbed a tourist?

Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 14:15, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

 * There was a recent case of two Chinese businessman being kidnapped for ransom, then killed after the families paid the ransom. Have a look at this: . The article also talks about a spate of kidnappings of Chinese people in the Philippines. Unfortunately this is behind a paywall but if you look at this old NYT article:, kidnapping of ethnic Chinese in the Philippines has long been a problem. It's not something that started recently. And have a look at this page as well. The dog2 (talk) 14:54, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The point is, how is that relevant to travel? Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:07, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The more recent spate of kidnappings seems to mostly have targeted visitors from China. One of the two who were killed after the ransom was paid in the most recent incident was from China, and the other was a Chinese-American. I won't go so far as to warn Chinese people not to visit the Philippines, but it seems that some extra vigilance is warranted if you are Chinese. The dog2 (talk) 15:33, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * So then state that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:05, 6 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ...but do so before your [The dog2] topic ban is enacted. -- SHB2000  (t | c | m) 23:21, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Philippines


text:
Talk:Phillip Island

Tried to correct the use of Petrolheads in regards people who attend Phillip Island Circuit. This has being re-instated by other edits/users.

To explain my view (which is consistent with my position as a Phillip Island tourist advisor), the Circuit in fact attracts large family crowds at motorsport events and wishes to continue to do so.

Petrolhead behaviour is actively discouraged by the local Bass Coast Shire and police. To this end we (the Island and Shire) even formed the Bass Coast Special Events Advisory Committee of community members, police, patrons to the events and Circuit and race organisers. Refer Bass Coast Shire website (http://www.basscoast.vic.gov.au).

Road deaths, injuries, and hoon behaviour has seen the events previously placed in jeopardy and risks the Island losing this vital boost to our tourism industry and local economy.

The Circuit itself has spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to provide family and visitor activities all year round. Bicycle riding around the track, a large Interps centre and museum, a gift shop, licensed family cafe, childrens playground, games rooms, and a very large area of developed walk-through water gardens and Australian wildlife park. All of this is what is on offer, during events and after. Refer also the Phillip Island Circuit website (http://www.phillipislandcircuit.com.au)

I believe "petrolheads" though meant non-offensively, is a colleqialism and inaccurate in this case. Perhaps to say it attracts large numbers of motorsport fans? If the term petrolheard is to remain included, could it be better to explain it in parenthesis that this is simply a slang term used for certain elements of the fan base that attendsmajor events. Thanks everyone!

 * Thanks for the contributions and the explanation, I think the current compromise with the parenthesis is good. That said, Wikivoyage's purpose is not to promote tourism, but to tell people the real deal, and if "hoon behaviour" is a danger at the event then this should be noted under Stay safe, not swept under the carpet. (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:00, 28 May 2006 (EDT)

Pagebanner
I am proposing to change the pagebanner to this one. Anyone disagrees? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:46, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

 * The proposed new banner is less sharp. They're also radically different in subject. Talk to us about that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:54, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, Phillip Island is known for a number of things, but most notably the Penguin parade. The motor racing is popular, but not as much as the penguin parade. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 13:03, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I wish there could be a sharper picture of the penguins, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:44, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * That would then be illegal to take, since all flash photography is banned. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:48, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Flash has nothing to do with focus. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:01, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I like the new banner. It could be sharper, but I think this could be caused by the penguins moving during a long exposure. The sand looks much sharper than the penguins. I know it is difficult to take photos of penguins, as I have tried and failed. AlasdairW (talk) 20:15, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I like both banners and will trust SHB2000’s local expertise to support the alternate banner. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 14:34, 2 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I support the new banner on the basis of local knowledge, plus penguins. How can anyone vote against penguins? Ground Zero (talk) 02:38, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
 * waddle waddle. ✅ (p.s. I'm not really a local to Phillip Island or Victoria as a whole. Sort of saying that someone from Jacksonville is familiar with Houston ;) But I've been here numerous times to know). --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:47, 9 August 2021 (UTC)

Conservation on Phillip Island
If you have 50 spare minutes, you might enjoy watching this video about the animals and conservation efforts on and in the waters off of Phillip Island: "Strange Creatures of Phillip Island". Should we cover the nature reserves more in the article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:23, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

 * I haven't watched the video, but thanks for the link, . From my two visits to the island (once more recently in 2019), the wildlife that I saw on the island is simply stunning! I do think there should be a greater emphasis on nature reserves and reshape this island along the lines of Kangaroo Island (similar but much larger island in neighbouring South Australia, also known for being a wildlife haven) instead of the more non-unique attractions like wineries or chocolate factories, per se. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 11:18, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Phillip Island


text:
Talk:Phimai

Template
Er, I don't think the template makes sense on this article. The park is the size of about two city blocks squared. You can't buy, eat, drink, or sleep there. You get in and get out through the front gate.

Shall we move this article to one about the town of Phimai (which is a pleasant quiet place to visit)? (WT-en) Digamma 22:00, 20 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * Plunge forward. I don't know the area at all, but if you feel that this park doesn't meet the Project:What is an article? standards then by all means merge it.

TAT Listings
I moved plenty of TAT listings from the province page to Talk:Phimai/Listings for future reference. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 10:06, 7 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Phimai


text:
Talk:Phimai/Listings

Amphoe Phimai
Thung Samrit Memorial (อนุสรณ์วีรกรรมทุ่งสัมฤทธิ์) is at Mu 1, Ban Samrit Tawan Ok, Tambon Samrit, 46 kilometres from the city. Take Highway No. 2 (Nakhon Ratchasima-Khon Kaen) to Km. 43-44 (opposite the entrance to Ban Prasat) and turn right for about 3 kilometres. This wide field was a battleground between Khorat people and Lao soldiers during the reign of King Rama III. A shrine built by villagers in 1988 now stands here to pay homage to the fighters.

Phimai National Museum (พิพิธภัณฑสถานแห่งชาติ พิมาย) at the base of Tha Songkran bridge just before Phimai sanctuary. From Nakhon Ratchasima, take Highway No. 2 for 50 kilometres, then go on Highway No. 206 for 10 kilometres. If taking a bus from Nakhon Ratchasima, you can get on at Bus Terminal 2 in the city.

The museum collects archaeological artefacts and has exhibits on the past cultural prosperity of the Northeast, especially artefacts found in the lower part of the region. The exhibition is allocated to three different sections, which are The museum opens Wednesday – Sunday from 9 am.-4 pm. It is closed on Monday – Tuesday and public holidays. The entry fee is 30 baht. For more information, call        0 4447 1167 Phimai Historical Park (อุทยานประวัติศาสตร์พิมาย) is in Phimai District. It has one of the grandest and most important Khmer historical sites in Thailand that is the Phimai sanctuary.
 * 1) First Section: Located at the upper floor, displaying the society development of the lower part of Isan, its culture civilization base on the local believes is gether with the outside influential culture that has impacted upon since pre-historic period tell the present day.
 * 2) Second Section: Located at the lower floor, displaying the ancient artifacts of Khmer cultural influence in the lower part of Isan.
 * 3) Third Section: This exhibited hall displays the ancient artifacts of sandstone sculptures such as the columns, miniature castles, parts of buildings and many other items. Moreover, many of temple boundary markers (heart-shaped stone) and exquisite lintels can be admired around the museum.

The word Phimai appears in an inscription on a stone slab at the front doorway of the building as well as in many other structures. It is believed that the word Phimai meant a religious figure or site.

Phimai sanctuary is in the shape of a rectangle and is 565 metres wide and 1,030 metres long. It consists of structures made of sandstone and laterite, all ornately carved with designs. The most special characteristic of the sanctuary is that it is the only one that faces south while others usually face east. This is probably because it was built to face the route that the Khmers made from the capital of the empire, to the south of Phimai.

From stone inscriptions and the style of architecture, Phimai sanctuary was most likely built at the end of the 16th Buddhist century during the reign of King Suriyaworaman I. The architectural style is Baphuon that prospered at the time. Some characteristics are similar to the Angkor Wat style, which became popular at a later period. The site had some additions in the early 18th Buddhist century in the reign of King Chaiworaman VII when Phimai had close relations with the Khmer Empire. The sanctuary was always a religious site of the Mahayana sect of Buddhism because King Suriyaworaman I and King Chaiworaman VII were followers of the sect.

Important Structures in Phimai Sanctuary

Naga Bridge (สะพานนาคราช) is the first part you pass when visiting the site. The bridge and lion figures stand in front of Gopura (porch) south of the main pagoda. The intention may have been to build a link between earth and heaven according to the belief in the universe of both Hinduism and Buddhism.

Gopura (โคปุระ) was adapted as the wall around the sanctuary and the four entering porches. There is a large corridor connecting between the outer and inner area of the main sanctuary. Above each porch is a lintel of various designs.

Main Prang (ปรางค์ประธาน) is on an open area in a curved walkway. It is the centre of the site. It is made entirely of white sandstone that is different than the porches and the walls that are made primarily of red sandstone. This is because white sandstone is more durable than red sandstone. The pagoda is 28 metres high, has a square base and a portico and stairways and doors in all 4 directions.

The pagoda consists of the base, outer walls, columns, and porches. All have beautiful designs. Of vital importance are the lintels that mostly recount the tale of Ramayana from Hinduism and tales of the Mahayana sect of Buddhism. Usually the lintel of the inner room of the pagoda, considered the most important room of the pagoda, would be more important than other lintels on the pagoda. The lintels above the 4 doorways of the main pagoda are all about Buddhism that reflects the influence that Buddhism eventually took over Hinduism. The carvings are of the Baphoun style (1007-1107) and the Angkor Wat style (1107-1157). Therefore, it is believed that the main pagoda was built at the end of the 17th Buddhist century.

There are other pagodas, which are Prang Brahmadat (ปรางค์พรหมทัต) in front of the main pagoda, Prang Hin Daeng (ปรางค์หินแดง) and Ho Phram (Brahma Hall) to the right.

The park is open daily during 7.30 am.-6 pm. The admission is 40 baht. For information, call tel. 0 4447 1568

Historical Sites Outside Phimai Sanctuary

Phimai City Gate and City Walls (ประตูเมืองและกำ���พงเมืองพิมาย) were built in the reign of King Chaiworaman VII. Of the 4 gates, the south gate is the most important because the road from the ancient Khmer capital to Phimai runs through it. If you look straight through the gate, you will see the sanctuary.

Meru Bhramathat (เมรุพรหมทัต) is southeast of the walls. It is made of bricks. Its present form is a huge and round earth hill that is about 30 metres high. The site is believed to have been the place where a king was cremated. However, the style of construction suggests it was built in the late Ayutthaya period. Other sites to the south are Tha Nang Sa Phom, Kuti Rusi and Arokhayasan.

Sai Ngam (ไทรงาม) is on the bank of the Mun River near Phimai Dam. Cross Tha Songkran Bridge into the town and take a branch road to the dam for 2 kilometres. The place is so named because of the abundance of banyan trees here, all originating from a single tree, which is about 350 years now. The tree gave birth to many smaller ones covering the entire area. Nearby are souvenir shops and several restaurants. The most popular dish for tourists is Phimai noodles.

Eat
Amphoe Phi Mai

 * Baitoei (ใบเตย) Chomsuda Sadej Road, Tel: 0 4447 1725
 * Rimmoon (ริมมูล) Chompuong, Tel: 0 4447 1692, 0 4447 1232
 * Krow Ku Pom (ครัวครูป้อม)  276 Mu 2 Tambon Naimuang  Tel. 0 4428 5304
 * Tew Pai (ทิวไผ่) 139/1 Phimai – Taladkea , Tel. 08 1878 1466

Sleep
Amphoe Phimai

 * Phimai Hotel (พิมายโฮเต็ล) 305/1-2 Haruthairom (Tel: 0 4447 1306, 0 4447 1940), 41 rooms: 160-400 baht
 * Phimai Inn (พิมายอินน์) 33/1 By Pass Road (Tel: 0 4447 1175, 0 4447 1602), 39 rooms: 200-500 baht
 * Phimai Paradise  ( พิมายพาราไดซ์)    100  Mu 2  Samairuchi  Road.   (Tel: 0 4428 7565), 42 rooms: 400-500 baht
 * The Old Phimai Guest House (ดิโอลพิมาย เกสต์เฮาส์) 214 Chomsuda Sadet Road (Tel: 0 4447 1918), 7 rooms: 180 baht

--(WT-en) globe-trotter 10:13, 7 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Phimai/Listings


text:
Talk:Phitsanulok

TAT Listings
I moved the listings of TAT to Talk:Phitsanulok/Listings for future reference. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 13:03, 5 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Phitsanulok