text:
Talk:Si Satchanalai/Listings

Historical Park
Si Satchanalai Historical Park (อุทยานประวัติศาสตร์ศรีสัชนาลัย) is located at Tambon Mueang Kao, a.k.a. Kaeng Luang, which is 11km off Amphoe Si Satchanalai towards Amphoe Sawankhalok or some 550km from Bangkok. It was renamed during the reign of a king in the Phra Ruang Dynasty when a new administrative centre was established to replace Chaliang. Ruins of 204 monuments out of 215 places have been discovered within the park.

Si Satchanalai Historical Park is open daily from 8.00 a.m. - 5.00 p.m. Admission is 40 baht. There is an entry charge for vehicles (10 – 50 baht), and the tram service costs 30 baht. Contact the park office (tel. +66-5567-9211) to arrange guides.

Major places of interest include:

 * Wat Phra Si Rattana Mahathat (วัดพระศรีรัตนมหาธาตุ). Also known as Wat Phra Borommathat Mueang Chaliang or Wat Phra Prang, Wat Phra Si Rattana Mahathat is situated 3km outside and to the southeast of the ancient Si Satchanalai’s wall. This large historic temple complex is a 1st-class royal temple. Important buildings include the main prang built from blocks of laterite covered with lime plaster. Architectural characteristics of the prang tower indicate that it could be dated to the Ayutthaya period. A staircase in front of the huge prang leads to a relic chamber and the prang’s wall sees faded mural paintings. In front of this reliquary are remains of a large wihan enshrining an image of the Buddha subduing Mara. To the right features a beautiful stucco image of the Buddha walking. The 60 x 90 metre rectangular wall is made of large rounded laterite columns arranged closely together. The entrance gate is topped with a spire featuring the stucco relief faces of Bodhisattva. The Mon-style pagoda known as Phrathat Mutao is located behind the principal prang tower, outside the demarcation wall. During excavation in 1992, fragments of gold plates for decorating the spire of the chedi were found. Mondop Phra Attharot is located behind the Phrathat Mutao Pagoda. Presumably, it was originally a mondop housing Buddha images in 4 postures, which was later altered. A standing Buddha image is present in the roofless mondop, formerly covered with earthen tile roofing. The laterite Wihan Phra Song Phi Nong image hall is located to the left of Mondop Phra Attharot. On the platform are enshrined 2 stucco images of the Buddha subduing Mara. From archaeological evidence, Wihan Song Phi Nong was built upon a former brick structure. To the right features the base of the Buddha's footprint. The ordination hall is in front of the wihan. It underwent a restoration by the temple by constructing a brand new one over the old ordination hall. The Kuti Phra Ruang Phra Lue Monk’s dwelling, aka. Phra Ruang Phra Lue Shrine, resembles a mondop. It has a wide square base and 4-layered brick mondop roofing. Inside is enshrined a replica of the Phra Ruang Phra Lue statue.

 * Wat Khao Phanom Phloeng (วัดเขาพนมเพลิง). This is a hilltop temple within the old town of Si Satchanalai. The prominent landmarks are the principal circular stupa and a laterite mondop, where its base is high and square in shape, with a pointed arch roof and stairways leading up to the mondop.  This is locally known as the Chaomae La-ong Samli Shrine. The temple is accessible from Wat Kaeng Luang via 2 stairways in the front and sideways. The steps leading from the foot of the hill to the temple are also made of laterite blocks. There are travellers’ pavilions along both ways.

Wat Khao Suwan Khiri (วัดเขาสุวรรณคีรี) Located 200 metres west of Khao Phanom Phloeng, Wat Khao Suwan Khiri basically sits on another hilltop of the same range. A huge bell-shaped laterite chedi stands on a 5-tiered plinth base that served as a circumambulation platform. There are 4 niches in 4 directions enshrining images of the Buddha. Around the mast of the chatra – umbrella - on top of the chedi features stucco figures of Buddha walking, which are similar to those at Wat Chang Lom. Behind the principal chedi houses a circular stupa encircled by a laterite wall.

 * Wat Chang Lom (วัดช้างล้อม). Located within the old town of Si Satchanalai, this temple is on the plain, south of Khao Phanom Phloeng. The prominent landmark of Wat Chang Lom is the bell-shaped chedi of Ceylonese influence situated on a square base inside a square boundary wall. Its platform is supported by 39 stucco elephant sculptures with 4 of them at the 4 corners elaborately decorated around the necks, thighs, and ankles. The steps in front lead to the chedi's circumambulation platform. Above the platform features niches each enshrine an image of the Buddha subduing Mara. The wall of the niche features a relief of the Bodhi Tree behind the Buddha image. However, there is only one Buddha image left in the north - the rest are ruined. Above the bell body of the chedi is the square Buddha’s seat or throne upon which the mast of the chatra arises. The mast is decorated with bas-relief of Lord Buddha’s 17 noble disciples walking all around.  A wihan is in front of the principal chedi. In addition, there are 2 smaller wihans and 2 subordinate chedis. The sculptures of elephants at Wat Chang Lom here in Si Satchanalai are quite different from those found at other temples. These represent the free-standing elephants and are taller than the live elephant, each having a stucco lotus bud in the front.

 * Wat Chedi Chet Thaeo (วัดเจดีย์เจ็ดแถว). Located in front of Wat Chang Lom, Wat Chedi Chet Thaeo is one of the most beautiful temples in Sukhothai Province. Chedis of different artistic styles and influences, especially of the pure Sukhothai style and a mixture of Sri Vijaya and Sukhothai styles, were built within the area of this temple.  The important buildings in this temple are the main chedi with a lotus-bud shape top, which is located behind the wihan, and 33 subordinate chedis and buildings. A demarcation wall surrounds all. An ordination hall and well are outside the wall.  The subordinate chedis bear various styles of art such as Ceylonese and Pagan influences. Behind the customary main chedi lies a unique chedi rai or small satellite chedi with its square shaped base and circular topmost. Within the chedi is enshrined a stucco figure of a standing Buddha. Mural paintings inside depict the past Buddha, as well as, deities, and kings. At the back of the chedi’s relic chamber is a niche of a seated Buddha image protected by the seven-headed naga. This temple has been called Wat Chedi Chet Thaeo, which means the temple with 7 rows of chedis, because there are many subordinate chedis here. Prince Damrongrajanuphap suggested that this might be the temple where the cremated remains of the Sukhothai royal family were kept.

 * Wat Suan Kaeo Utthayan Yai (วัดสวนแก้วอุทยานใหญ่). Located within the city wall, not far from Wat Chedi Chet Thaeo. The prominent landmark includes the principal laterite circular stupa, which the bell-shaped part has already collapsed. A staircase in front leads from the wihan’s back porch to the bell-shaped body where a Buddha image is enshrined. In front of the principal chedi, there is a wihan with front and back porches. There are 5 staircases leading up to the wihan. The wihan’s columns and temple’s boundary wall are constructed from laterite.

 * Wat Suan Kaeo Utthayan Noi or Wat Sa Kaeo (วัดสวนแก้วอุทยานน้อยหรือวัดสระแก้ว). Located 200 metres from Wat Chang Lom, the layout plan of Wat Suan Kaeo Utthayan Noi include buildings encircled by a demarcation wall, front gate, back gate, and main chedi in a lotus-bud shape. In addition, behind the wihan features a shrine in the form of a mondop with a pointed arched roof enshrining an image of the Buddha subduing Mara.

 * Wat Nang Phaya (วัดนางพญา) Adjacent to Wat Suan Kaeo Utthayan Yai, Wat Nang Phaya is famous for its delicate stucco reliefs on the remains of the northwestern wall of the 7-roomed wihan or image hall. The principal circular stupa is supported by a circumambulation base. The relic chamber of the chedi housing its core decorated by stucco relief is accessible by a set of stairs from the front. The wihan building is made of laterite blocks with front and back porches. The wall was made into slit windows to let in light. The exterior face of the wihan’s southern walls is decorated with highly elaborated stucco of creatures - half man half monkey – running. However, part of it has already been destroyed. Other elaborated stucco includes plants and angels in adoration bearing the art style of the early Ayutthaya period.

 * Wat Chom Chuen (วัดชมชื่น), which is 400 metres east of Wat Phra Si Rattana Mahathat, is situated by the Yom River. The prominent landmark includes the principal circular stupa made of laterite, where a laterite 6-roomed wihan with a front porch is in front of it. The back of the wihan is connected to a mondop, which resembles a dimmed room. The mondop has laterite gable roofing. The front on both sides of mondop features 2 niches. At the back also features a niche, where a seated Buddha image protected by the seven-headed naga was formerly enshrined. However, it has now disappeared. In addition, this mondop is decorated with beautiful stucco on the back pediment.

From the archaeological excavations conducted at the depth of 7 – 8 metres in front of the wihan, 15 skeletons were found. These human skeletons are suggested to be datable around the 4th century - Dvaravati Period, around the 7th – 11th century. In addition, evidence yield traces of large brick buildings and many Chaliang wares were unearthed. These are dated to the 12th century – Sukhothai era.

National Park
Si Satchanalai National Park (อุทยานแห่งชาติศรีสัชนาลัย) Si Satchanalai National Park, formerly called Pa Kha or Pa Kha Luang, is located at Ban Pa Kha, Mu 6, Tambon Ban Kaeng. It was initiated by His Majesty King Bhumibol Adulyadej to conserve the water source and natural resources. With a total area of 319 square kilometres, the park covers the areas of Amphoe Si Satchanalai and Amphoe Thung Saliam of Sukhothai Province, as well as, Amphoe Thoen of Lampang Province. The general geography of this national park is a large lalang field, as well as, high, undulating mountains. These mountains are the source of many streams such as Huai Tha Phae. The floras here include mixed deciduous forest, deciduous dipterocarp forest, and hill evergreen forest. This is also home to many fauna such as Indochinese ground squirrel, Asian golden cat, common palm civet, Sumatran serow, and Siamese big-headed turtle. Si Satchanalai National Park was proclaimed a national park on 8 May, 1981.

Interesting tourist spots in the park include:

Namtok Tat Duean (น้ำตกตาดเดือน): Located 300 metres from the park headquarters, this waterfall originates from the stream Huai Mae Tha Phae. It becomes a large rock terrace and pool for relaxation.

Tham Khangkhao (ถ้ำค้างคาว): Situated some 20km from the park headquarters, Tham Khangkhao or bat cave is home to some 100,000 bats. There are amazing scenes of plentiful stalactite and stalagmite formations. Tham Thara Wasan (ถ้ำธาราวสันต์): This cave is situated about 1.5km from the park headquarters. It also features marvellous stalactite and stalagmite formations. Prominent flora and fauna found within the cave’s compound include Dracaena loureiri Gagnep and Sumatran serow.

Namtok Huai Sai Khao (น้ำตกห้วยทรายขาว): This waterfall is located some 3km from the park headquarters. Namtok Huai Sai Khao takes its source from Huai Sai Khao running pass the rock terrace and cascades into a small pool. The waterfall runs through 7 cataracts. It, basically, sits in the middle of a valley surrounded by a forest. Namtok Tat Dao (น้ำตกตาดดาว): This large and beautiful waterfall takes its source from Huai Mae Tha Phae. It cascades like a curtain through 2 cataracts of a wide and steep cliff, which measures 50 metres in height. It is located some 4km on foot from the park headquarters.

In this connection, the park also offers 2 trekking routes: firstly, the Chom Tawan route, which takes its course along the mountain slope. It is moderately steep. The path passes water channels at some points. Mixed deciduous forest surrounds all. Tourists can enjoy the scenic view of the park and sunrise. There are 14 stations along this route. Nature interpretation signs are available along the way. This route takes 2 – 3 hours. The total distance is 5,500 metres. Secondly, Huai Mae Tha Phae route, which goes in a circle. Along the way, tourists will see many animals like butterflies, common barking dear, common wild pig, and squirrels. Flora includes a cluster of mixed deciduous forest and dry evergreen forest. This route takes 1 hour. The total distance is 2km.

Admission fees: Admission fees for children and adults are 200 and 400 baht, respectively.

Accommodation: The park provides 6 houses, which can each accommodate 6 -10 people at 600 – 2,000 baht/night. A fee of 30 baht will be charged per person per night for those who bring their own tents. Alternatively, rental tents are available at 225 baht, which can accommodate 2 - 8 people. For more details, contact Si Satchanalai National Park, PO. BOX 10, Tambon Ban Kaeng, Amphoe Si Satchanalai, Sukhothai 64130, Tel. 0 5561 9214 – 5 or Department of National Park, Wildlife and Flora, Bangkhen, Bangkok, Tel. 0 2562 0760, and.

To get there: By car, from Sukhothai, 2 routes are available at tourists disposal. Firstly, from the provincial city of Sukhothai, proceed along Highway No. 12 (Sukhothai – Tak route) by making a detour for 15km. Turn right onto Highway No. 1113. At Sarachit junction, take a left turn onto Highway No. 1294 before reaching the park. The total distance is 100km. Secondly, from the provincial city of Sukhothai, proceed along Highway No. 101 (Sukhothai – Si Satchanalai route). When arriving in Amphoe Si Satchanalai, turn left and pass the Si Satchanalai Hospital. Proceed along Highway No. 1035 for 11km. Take a right turn onto Highway No. 1249 before reaching the park. The total distance is 122km.

By bus, the local bus service operates once a day from opposite the Si Satchanalai Police Station before noon. The trip takes 50 minutes.

Other
Centre for Study and Preservation of Sangkhalok Kilns (ศูนย์ศึกษาและอนุรักษ์เตาสังคโลก (เตาทุเรียง)) This is located at Ban Ko Noi, some 6.5km to the north of Si Satchanalai by the Yom River. Within a distance of 1km, more than 500 kilns have been excavated up to now. This compound is considered the industrial area of Si Satchanalai. Numerous celadon wares in perfect and broken conditions have been discovered. The kiln is oval in shape with a curved roof like that of a ferryboat and is 7-8 metres long.

The centre consists of 2 buildings situated on the kiln site area with 2 kilns Nos. 42 (ground level) and 61 (underground) exhibited in situ. There are also exhibitions on artefacts, academic documents, and on the evolution of ancient ceramic wares. The centre is open daily during 9.00 a.m. – 4.00 p.m. Admission is 30 baht.

To get there, drive for approximately 6.5km to the north of Si Satchanalai Historical Park to Ban Ko Noi, where the remains of ancient kilns can be seen scattered around. The centre is also accessible by the Highway No.1201 from Amphoe Si Satchanalai, a distance of 7km with the buildings located on the left.

Festivals
Si Satchanalai Elephant Back Ordination Procession (ประเพณีบวชพระแห่นาคด้วยช้างของชาวหาดเสี้ยว) A traditional ceremony of the Thai Phuan, citizens of Ban Hat Siao, Si Satchanalai Elephant Back Ordination Procession or Buat Chang is held annually during 7-8 April at Ban Hat Siao, Amphoe Si Satchanalai. The 7th is the crux of the event, when a procession takes place. On the 8th features a spectacular procession of ordination candidates in colourful costumes on the backs of some 20-30 decorated elephants. The ordination ceremony includes head shaving, bathing, and dressing up candidates, as well as, elephants. The procession is held around the village and the Si Satchanalai District Office, Tel: 0 5567 1466.

Songkran Festival (งานประเพณีสรงน้ำโอยทาน สงกรานต์ศรีสัชนาลัย) An annual celebration of the Thai New Year is held during 12 - 13 April at Si Satchanalai Historical Park, Amphoe Si Satchanalai; this festival carries forward Sukhothai’s tradition. It was mentioned in the famous stone inscription “The Sukhothai people are generous, abide by precepts, and always give charity”, which is believed to be inscribed during the reign of King Ramkhamhaeng the Great of the Sukhothai Kingdom. The highlights of the event include the elephant procession, offering rituals to pay respect to Phra Suea Mueang, the tutelary spirit, and kings from the Phra Ruang Dynasty, Miss Songkran beauty queen contest, local sport competitions, and cultural performances.

Buy
(opposite George Sa shop), Tel: 0 5567 1129, 0 5567 2955, Products: traditional hand-woven fabric and Pha Sin Tin Chok. shop houses the Gold Textile Museum and sells silver/gold brocade Pha Sin Tin Chok, garment of candidates for ordination, Pha Sin Tin Chok with Dok Khia pattern, and Tin Chok Ban Nam Pat. Free admission and open daily from 7.00 a.m. – 6.30 p.m.
 * Ko Noi Group (กลุ่มชาวบ้านเกาะน้อย) Products: local made pottery.
 * Ban Hat Siao (บ้านหาดเสี้ยว) Products: 9-pattern Pha Sin Tin Chok or hand-woven woman’s sarong, Pha Khao Ma or loincloth used by men, and shawls. The hand-woven fabric of Ban Hat Siao is renowned for its beautiful patterns. Almost all houses in this district own a loom. Traditional hand-woven fabric shops are available everywhere.
 * Roeng (เริง) 406 Sawankhalok – Si Satchanalai Road, Tambon Hat Siao
 * Sathon (สาธร) 477 Mu 2, Tambon Hat Siao, Tel/Fax: 0 5567 1143. The

Eat

 * Kulap (กุหลาบ) 473 Mu 2 Si Satchanalai – Sawankhalok Road (near the Caltex gas station), Tambon Hat Siao, Tel: 0 5567 1151, (Thai cuisine), service hours: 10.00 a.m. – 10.00 p.m.

Sleep

 * Wang Yom Resort (วังยม รีสอร์ท) 78/2 Mu 6, Tambon Si Satchanalai, Phra Ruang Road,Tel: 0 5563 1380, 08 1283 4220, 4 rooms: 800 – 1,000 Baht.
 * Si Satchanalai Resort (ศรีสัชนาลัย รีสอร์ท) 240 Mu. 2, Tambon Nong O, Tel: 0 5567 2666, 08 9780 5100, Fax: 0 5567 2666, 32 rooms: 400 – 1,200 Baht.

--(WT-en) globe-trotter 13:47, 5 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Si Satchanalai/Listings


text:
Talk:Sivakasi

Copyvio
When original posted (19 Mar 2005) the content in this article was a copyvio from http://www.sivakasi.info/ or http://www.kuttyjapan.com/. It has since been removed.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Sivakasi


text:
Talk:Siwa

Taxis and budget hotels
Does anybody know how to contact the budget hotels? Phone numbers or email addresses would probably be helpful on the wiki.

20 LE seems to be too cheap to be true on the taxi section, I guess you meant 200 LE from Matroh (2009)

 * I don't have numbers for the budget hotels, but you just turn up in Siwa and you are sure to get a room at one of them. I will try to get in future weeks and add (English speaker, now living in Siwa).
 * Not sure about the taxi service, but you can get a mini bus, comfy enough seats, with 12 others to Mersa Matruh for about 15LE from outside the central mosque. They run all hours of day, usually leave just after prayer times for example. You don't book, just turn up and once they have enough people, they go. (2011)

Safety situation
I'm confused by the contradictory huge red warning at the top of the page indicating this is a dangerous city to visit, and the "Stay safe" section which claims exactly the opposite. Which of them is correct? 87.75.18.140 10:51, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

 * They both are. This is a common situation in the Middle East and beyond. There is a real risk of terrorist violence, often against transport or hotels perceived as encouraging western influx. And yet the individual traveller meets only courtesy, and the dangers of western cities (often drink- or drug-fuelled) are absent. - GS, May 2020

Update
This page has been overhauled by reference to WV-DE, though the hotels and eating places cannot currently be updated. The climate chart is over-prominent, enough to say that Sahara is a hot desert, but it's moved here in case it should be re-instated. Grahamsands (talk) 08:32, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

 * Sorry, I meant to say, wow, I didn't realize there was so much in western Egypt. Lazarus1255 (talk) 21:07, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Siwa


text:
Talk:Six days hiking on Moskenesøy

Page Blank
This page was blanked by one of the original contributors. Rather than blanking a page please either list it on Project:Votes for deletion or else redirect it. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 14:24, 7 August 2009 (EDT)

VFD Discussion

 * Delete. The trail description is not exact enough. To follow this route you need a detailed map, and a key to the cabin - you can not get either key or map nearby. It is a diffcult and long route, there are better options in the same area. (WT-en) Tofola 09:14, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

 * Why wouldn't we just add this info to the article, and let the traveller decide? --(WT-en) inas 19:20, 9 August 2009 (EDT)

 * Keep Yes, the information is currently insufficient, but it has enough of a layout to allow someone to add to it. If you have more information about this hike, like where to get the key and such, then why not add it? (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 04:04, 12 August 2009 (EDT)

 * Keep. As I argued above.  --(WT-en) inas 22:45, 7 September 2009 (EDT)

Outcome: Kept --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 16:06, 26 October 2009 (EDT)

Second VFD discussion
''This article was nominated for deletion on 23 August 2013 but was redirected. The deletion debate is Votes_for_deletion/September_2013. Please consider that decision before you re-nominate it.

 * Delete Article has not been updated for years. The article is still missing central information to make this hiking tour possible, and it is not safe to do this hiking with out this information (eg. where to find boat, bus, where to get key to cabin and what map to bring). Since the topic is more like a personal hiking report, it is not easy to find and fill in this information. The article meet the requirements for deleting a wiki travel article, since it is an itinerary that have been at outline status without being substantially edited within one year.

It was also deleted on wikitravel for same reasons: http://wikitravel.org/en/Wikitravel:Votes_for_deletion#Six_days_hiking_on_Moskenes.C3.B8y Added by 213.166.174.2 12:59, 23 August 2013

 * Comment I don't think it's strictly relevant here what the other site does ;) Danapit (talk) 14:24, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

 * Merge (to where?) or delete: otherwise I rather agree with the arguments for deletion. We have 1 year protection period for outline articles. That has passed without nobody adding any useful content. Some of the information could be merged, but as I am not familiar with the area, I wouldn't know where to. Danapit (talk) 15:41, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect to Moskenesøya. Texugo (talk) 15:46, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Comment - Incidentally, there is a previous vfd discussion for this one in 2009 at Talk:Six days hiking on Moskenesøy, but I think it has already had more than plenty of time to be developed, if it were going to be. The article has already been tagged for merging to Moskenesøya since April, and I think it can be merged there without further ado. Texugo (talk) 15:52, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Funny thing that the 2009 VFD was even initiated by the article's creator. Danapit (talk) 16:01, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Nobody is going to type "Six days hiking on Moskenesøy" in the search box so then why redirect? --Saqib (talk) 15:48, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, I agree that a redirect would be pointless. Texugo (talk) 15:55, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * As do I, so I'd say merge anything useful and then delete. Pashley (talk) 16:03, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Saqib (talk) 16:04, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The page should not be deleted; the merged content must be attributed, and there's no way to do that without keeping the page as a redirect. LtPowers (talk) 17:19, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, this was not a speedy deletion candidate and should not have been deleted after less than 24 hours on the VfD page. LtPowers (talk) 17:19, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * LtPowers is right. Why was this hastily deleted? Standard procedure should have been followed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:24, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I have restored it, given the attribution issue LtPowers mentioned, but in general, things which have a merge tag for months and have already been merged don't really need to be brought up here and discussed for 2 weeks before being redirected, right? Texugo (talk) 20:33, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * True, but not without attribution. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:41, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Result: Redirected to Moskenesøya. --Saqib (talk) 06:03, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Six days hiking on Moskenesøy


text:
Talk:Magic Mountain

Six Flags Magic Mountain
Per Project:What is an article?. Unlike Disneyland and some other parks, Six Flags Parks are not full resorts, offering no on-site accommodation.
 * Delete - (WT-en) Texugo 01:15, 29 November 2007 (EST)
 * Is it well enough known that we should have a redirect from this title, or from Magic Mountain, to Valencia? We do this for things like Taj Mahal for people who might know the attraction name but not know where it is. (WT-en) Pashley 06:24, 29 November 2007 (EST)
 * It's fairly well-known in the Cali-Nevada-Arizona area I suppose, but certainly not on world-fame par with Disneyland. A redirect wouldn't bother me. My point is that Six Flags has literally dozens of amusement parks all over North America and we don't have (or need) articles for any of the others, not even the flagship Texas location. Plus the article has a lot of pretty useless information. What use to the traveller is it to have a list of every t-shirt and stuffed animal shop and every vendor in the amusement park? (WT-en) Texugo 22:12, 29 November 2007 (EST)
 * Delete. There are too many Six Flags parks across the US to tie this redirect to one area. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 00:12, 30 November 2007 (EST)
 * Redirect to Valencia (California). Each "Six Flags _______" can be redirected to its own locale. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 14:52, 11 December 2007 (EST)
 * Redirect to Valencia (California) ~ 203.144.143.4 17:37, 18 December 2007 (EST)
 * Delete. A redirect from Magic Mountain, the common English name, would be OK, though perhaps unnecessary. However, we do not need one from the longer formal name. (WT-en) Pashley 18:58, 18 December 2007 (EST)
 * Looks like a redirect to me, unless someone tips the consensus in the next few minutes... -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 23:59, 22 December 2007 (EST)

Recreating this article
NOTE: The above VFD discussion is from 2007. Since that time What is an article has been updated to include: "Big free-standing theme parks like Disneyland or Cedar Point...but not amusement parks in or next to a city, such as Coney Island or Tivoli." I would argue that an article about Magic Mountain is acceptable, but if there are concerns let's discuss. -- Ryan • (talk) • 16:46, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

 * I think this belongs at Magic Mountain. The longer name may be OK as a redirect. Pashley (talk) 17:01, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Ryan, your quoted line was present in the policy page even during the above deletion discussion. I wonder what was updated? No on-site accommodation was the main reason of its previous deletion and even now, I don't see if accommodation available on-site. --Saqib (talk) 17:15, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I've started a discussion at Wikivoyage talk:What is an article?. -- Ryan • (talk) • 17:55, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * @Pashley - moving this to Magic Mountain (and leaving a redirect) seems like it would make sense. -- Ryan • (talk) • 18:07, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I've renamed the article to "Magic Mountain" per the "most common name" guidance at Article naming conventions. As to the original concern about whether this is article-worthy, based on the "huge and complex" guidance and the "content would overload the parent article" guidance at What is an article, my reading is that keeping this article as a standalone article is supported by existing policy. -- Ryan • (talk) • 04:04, 16 October 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Magic Mountain


text:
Talk:Six months overland from Istanbul to Indonesia

Overland?
This itinerary is not completely done overland. User:(WT-en) Od

 * As the article states, it's not possible to travel across Myanmar overland at the moment, and of course Indonesia is an archipelago. (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:37, 10 February 2008 (EST)

====

Ok, this article is really on the right track, but I'm wondering if it's just too big a trip for one article-- do we want to break it down a bit? Also, we'll need to add links to the wikivoyage articles for each destination-- in fact, I'd say some of the information on what to see/do should be moved to destination guides and leave this article (or articles) as the link between them focusing on how long it takes to get from A to B, etc... thoughts? (WT-en) Majnoona 15:10, 8 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * I'm putting a working copy here to play with:
 * I think the first graph is really the itinererary, and the rest is destination content. Just add the info about how long to get between places and how long to stay at each one... this will be an easier read I think:

working copy
removed again and put up for real...

Merge
This should be merged with Istanbul to New Delhi over land. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:14, 7 Feb 2005 (EST)

 * Six months overland from Istanbul to Indonesia. Effectively a duplicate of From Turkey to Indonesia in less than 6 months, mostly written by the same guy to boot, but less wikified. Any new information should be rescued and this should be turned into redirect. (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:07, 21 Dec 2005 (EST)


text:
Talk:Skaneateles

Geez, this is harder to do than I thought it would be. Previously someone removed my content that was used with permission from the Chamber of Commerce.

Now I am trying again and I have botched the Outline. Can someone get it back?

Thanks, Paul Curtis

title: Talk:Skaneateles


text:
Talk:Skiathos

I've removed the link to Windward Islands yacht rental, since it's a world wide service and not specific to the destination. (WT-en) Sailsetter 09:41, 12 August 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Skiathos


text:
Talk:Skidaway Island

Advertising?
Is The Landings a commercial, privately owned enterprise??

Is this page an advertisement??

Just wondering...

200.252.135.73 13:07, 19 April 2012 (EDT)

VFD Discussion

 * Delete. An article for a gated community in Savannah, Georgia. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Eco84 (talk • contribs)
 * Keep. While the article currently reads like an advertisement, it looks like a valid destination and is a place that people might want to visit (their web site indicates that visitors can purchase passes), so I'm not sure there is anything in the deletion policy that would justify a deletion. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 13:02, 22 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Keep the article needs a lot of work but The Landings looks like a 'real' place (at least by the What is an article definition). Someone needing several layers of insulation from reality may appreciate knowing about it. Places are available for short term rent (nightly, weekly) making it definitely a valid tourist destination. (WT-en) Travelpleb 03:07, 24 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Comment: If we do keep the article, perhaps move it to Skidaway Island (see: Wikipedia:Skidaway Island, Georgia), where the community is located, to broaden the scope? (WT-en) Eco84 17:33, 24 April 2012 (EDT)
 * I'd support this proposal, particularly since there may not otherwise be any other good place to put information about the surrounding area outside of the "Landings" private community. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 19:53, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Move/merge to Skidaway Island. Bingo! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:43, 25 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Merge & redirect to Skidaway Island. (WT-en) Pashley 21:55, 20 May 2012 (EDT)

Result: Moved to Skidaway Island. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 16:23, 2 June 2012 (EDT)

title: Talk:Skidaway Island


text:
Talk:Skiing in Austria

I guess the existence of this page implies that we should have a whole series:

 * Skiing in Switzerland
 * Skiing in France
 * Skiing in Italy
 * Skiing in Norway
 * Skiing in Sweden
 * Skiing in the United States
 * Skiing in Canada

...etc

Is that the way we want to go? We could also have a page on Skiing Holidays in general (with more detailed safety advice for example) Also what do the snowboarders think of these page names? Should it be renamed "Snowsports in Austria"? -- (WT-en) Nojer2 10:43, 22 Sep 2005 (EDT)

 * Yes, we should have a whole series. Yes, we should have a page on Skiing Holidays. If the absence of those pages bothers you so much, then go ahead and write them yourself. If you don't want to go that way, remerge it with the Austria article, but bear in mind that this will make the article very long, and that it will contain a lot of information irrelevant to some travellers.  Or we could adopt a deletion policy, in which case wikivoyage will be of little use to a large fraction of travellers in Austria, who are skiing tourists.

 * It should be renamed "Winter Sports in Austria" (WT-en) Klafubra 14:20, 29 March 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Skiing in Austria


text:
Talk:Skiing in Lebanon

Districts
I don't really understand what the point of the following is, and this certainly doesn't fit with normal Wikivoyage style — any info should be moved into the appropriate articles, and the Skiing in Lebanon article should just point to them. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:17, 5 January 2008 (EST)

 * Skiing in Lebanon/Zaarour
 * Skiing in Lebanon/Qanat Bakish
 * Skiing in Lebanon/Laqlouq
 * Skiing in Lebanon/Faraya Mzaar
 * Skiing in Lebanon/Faqra
 * Skiing in Lebanon/Cedars

More edits
This article needs more edits about cross country skiing, grande coulee, Mount Hermon etc.. as well as pictures.

 * Please plunge forward and make the improvements as you see fit! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:01, 8 July 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Skiing in Lebanon


text:
Talk:Ski Loveland

I think this is probably worth putting in Loveland (Colorado) article and redirecting this page there. However there is nothing in Loveland (Colorado) to indicate skiiing is an attraction. Perhaps someone who knows the area can elaborate. -- (WT-en) Huttite 19:04, 27 July 2006 (EDT)

 * Sorry, saw this note after redirecting. This site indicates that Loveland Colorado has a large ski area, unless there are two Loveland's in Colorado. -- (WT-en) Ryan 19:33, 27 July 2006 (EDT)

 * Never mind, the town is a different place (north of Denver, this is west). Might as well put this info into one of the Colorado regions for now... -- (WT-en) Ryan 19:42, 27 July 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Ski Loveland


text:
Talk:Skipton

Skipton is in NORTH Yorkshire not South Yorkshire.

title: Talk:Skipton


text:
Talk:Skopelos

I've revised the beach list to limit it to the beaches most visitors will be interested in and to add fuller descriptions to these. (WT-en) Sailsetter 10:33, 5 July 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Skopelos


text:
Talk:Skopje

I question whether this article is usable at this point. Is it not possible to add street addresses for the attractions and restaurants? (WT-en) OldPine 10:05, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

Undo edit?
This edit looks not right It removed a lot of detail. Should we undo? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 01:28, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I think we should, yes. Ibaman (talk) 11:51, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
 * As the new edit says that the bus and trains stations are adjacent to each other, which I take as lying next to each other, I think I can confidently say that the sentences in question were written by someone who hasn't even been to this transporten centar as it's called in Skopje, since the train and bus stations are not next to each other in the typical sense, but rather on the top of each other — the bus station is on the ground floor while the viaduct over it (which is the roof of the bus station building itself) carries the railway tracks and the station. Vidimian (talk) 16:25, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

 * Thanks for undoing. I don't usually ask for advice on edits like this, but in this case without knowing Skopje I was unable to judge whether the new content was better than the deleted content. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:13, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

Separate into Districts?
I'm planning on doing some contributing to this guide and I think it may be best to separate this into three districts: Centar, Stara Čaršija (Čair Municipality), and Elsewhere (the other 8 municipalities of Skopje). There are plenty of sights, places to shop, to eat, to drink, and to sleep in each of the three potential districts. Thoughts? Local hero (talk) 01:27, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

 * Just looking at the "See" section, it seems like you're right. What do other people think? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:52, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, I agree, if you're willing to fill those districts up a but. There's definitely no lack of things to see or do :) I like the proposed division also. I don't think we usually go with "elsewhere", but I think it makes sense for Skopje. JuliasTravels (talk) 09:09, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd suggest first to fill up all missing coordinates in See section. After this it'll be easier to see on a map where sight are located and thereafter whether proposed city division is good enough (i.e. all three proposed districts have enough sights and at the same time each of them doesn't have too many sights which will require further division of it somewhere in the future). --Kiaora (talk) 11:31, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm only a little familiar with the Centar and Stara Čaršija, but following the Vardar River — which defines the geographical and cultural division of Skopje — seems like a good districtification scheme for this not-so-big city. Stara Čaršija (or even Skopje/Old town) is a more preferable name to Čair, as most travellers won't have an exact idea on where a municipality starts and where the other ends or even their official names, I guess. I also second Kiaora on coordinating the listings as much as possible to see their positions on the map first. Vidimian (talk) 12:43, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Not familiar at all with this part of Europe, but the article does have a fair amount of content, so I guess it's OK to districtify it. Adding coordinates first is a very good idea, especially for the places that are close to the district borders. Also, as others have said, it's good to have some kind of balance between the districts (of course, like any city in the world the central parts have much more to offer to travelers than suburbs). ϒpsilon (talk) 16:41, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

I've begun adding the coordinates in the See section. If 'Elsewhere' isn't a good district name, maybe 'Outer Skopje' is better. Basically, Stara Čaršija would contain the old town, the fortress and some newer museums; Centar would contain Macedonia Square, other museums, and much of the Skopje 2014 monuments; the third district would contain Matka Canyon, Vodno Mountain, the Aqueduct, and a few minor sites. I think it'll be pretty balanced. Local hero (talk) 18:37, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * "Outer Skopje" sounds better in English, I think. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:22, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's a very idiomatic phrase. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:28, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

The coordinates have now all been added to the See listings. I guess I'll start building the three district articles in a sandbox. Does anyone know where I could find someone to create the map of the districts? I don't think I know how to do it. Local hero (talk) 18:59, 15 August 2016 (UTC)

 * While I honestly find (or found) the instructions at How to draw static maps confusing, they might be of help. Strangely, Mapmaking Expedition has no members listed, but the Regions map Expedition members are also experienced in drawing maps, including those of the districts, but most users there seem to be inactive currently. Vidimian (talk) 15:49, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finding these links. I'll see if I can get some help from those users. Local hero (talk) 00:15, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

I've gotten the three district articles ready (check them out: Centar, Stara Čaršija, Outer Skopje). Should Stara Čaršija be called Old Bazaar or Old Town instead? I'm not sure which is best. Other than that, I think they're good to go. I'll soon create them then add the District section and condense the info in the main article. Local hero (talk) 00:15, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * The districts look quite good (would be nice to have a few more Eat and Drink listings in Stara Čaršija and Outer Skopje but these you can always add later). For the old town, I think we should use Stara Čaršija, on Wikivoyage we usually use local names for established districts whenever possible.
 * Ps. if nobody else volunteers to draw a district map, I can help with it. ϒpsilon (talk) 04:49, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I could help with the map, but I would need a public domain source and a clear definition of each district boundary. Powers (talk) 21:16, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

 * OpenStreetMap seems to have the borders drawn for all of Skopje's municipalities. However, slight adjustments are needed for purposes of the travel guides. I sketched the borders around Centar and Stara Čaršija. Outer Skopje would simply be everything else around those two within the city limits. Local hero (talk) 03:45, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Any luck with this? Local hero (talk) 20:37, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, sorry, I missed your reply somehow. Unfortunately, I'm a little busy at the moment, don't know if I can get to this. Powers (talk) 01:43, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * District map is up. BTW, once all listings have been moved to the district articles, they should be deleted from here. The sections in the main article should contain a few paragraphs briefly describing what you can find where (example: Santiago de Chile which I pretty much myself districtified a few months back). ϒpsilon (talk) 18:28, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

 * Many thanks for making the map, Ypsilon. I'll get started on taking listings out of this page. Local hero (talk) 19:37, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Skopje


text:
Talk:Skye

Cuillin
I believe that standard usage is for the term "Cuillin" (the correct spelling) to describe the aggregate of the high mountains of Skye, without an "s" on the end. Example: "The Cuillin are the best known mountains on Skye." Wish I'd had a chance to climb in the Cuillin when I was there ... -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 08:47, 6 April 2006 (EDT)

Transport
The bus time-table website (Rapson's) no longer functions. (WT-en) Davidx 14:54, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

 * I've updated the get in and get around sections. Rapson's have been taken over by Stagecoach, and the latter have now produced an up to date area guide. Link added. (WT-en) Jamesbrownontheroad 18:30, 19 January 2009 (EST)

Skye Music Festival
Moved do-entry to discussion page as it no longer seems to be active: (2014)

 * The Isle of Skye Music Festival is a mid-June event featuring popular music with both regional and international entries. This year's edition is on June 16-17 at a semi-abandoned airfield site near Broadford.

title: Talk:Skye


text:
Talk:Sky Harbor Airport

Merge
This airport is not large enough to warrant a separate article, this info can all be covered at Phoenix, after some well-needed hacking. It's also not necessary to list every establishment, just note the noteworthy, as we do for any other destination (though at this point there's not even anything other than a list of names which is marginally useful – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 03:58, 2 November 2008 (EST)
 * I disagree. This airport is also the primary point of entry for much of southern Arizona. Cities such as Tempe and Scottsdale also heavily use this airport. Burying this information only in the Phoenix page would make it a little harder to find for people visiting these other cities. Separating it out as a separate page facilitates linking to it from the Tempe or Scottsdale pages and avoids duplicating information. (WT-en) Simplylost 17:57, 4 February 2009 (EST)

 * Per Project:What_is_an_article, only city-sized airports get their own articles. The only airport articles that have been accepted (to my knowledge) are O'Hare International Airport, Kansai International Airport, and Heathrow Airport. Sky Harbor doesn't even come close to meeting this well-established criterion, so I'm going to just plunge forward and trim out all the fat (and there's a ton of unnecessary fat here, and merge to Phoenix. Having a separate article makes it no more easier to link to—you can just link straight to Phoenix. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:06, 17 April 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Sky Harbor Airport


text:
Talk:Sleepy Hollow

Hi! I'm all for disabiguating the ambiguous, however it would seem to me that the former North Tarrytown is probably the most famous Sleepy Hollow by a pretty long margin. How many of the other Sleepy Hollows have had a movie made in their name by Tim Burton? Just wonderin' -- (WT-en) Mark 19:40, 19 May 2006 (EDT)
 * I wholeheartedly agree about the fame of the setting for Washington Irving's story (Burton's loose adaptation sure didn't hurt). In retrospect I should have left the article on the village in NY where it was and merely added the one in Illinois. Is it too late to remediate? On the other hand, at least I refrained from showing a bias against one of the many recent imposter Sleepy Hollows. (WT-en) SHC 20:16, 19 May 2006 (EDT)

Status
Why on earth does this have guide status and not even a map? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:25, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sleepy Hollow


text:
Talk:Sliema

I've chosen for the medium size template because this place has the highest number of hotels and restaurants etc. Therefore visitors of the country and this websites are most likely to have info/ look for info about hotels and restaurants here. (WT-en) PeterW 06:48, 12 June 2006 (EDT)

"There is also a small Marks and Spencers, but this one does not have a deli section" Five floors - you call it "small"? And it has deli section on the top floor, go check it out.

"and a tiny supermarket just off Stella Maris Street" There are three supermarkets in Sliema: Scotts, Tower and Tigne point

title: Talk:Sliema


text:
Talk:Sligo

What is the point of the extensive listing of stores in the buy section with no addresses or phone numbers? 65.96.227.45 12:28, 3 July 2007 (EDT)
 * Feel free to plunge forward, use a phone book and add the missing information. This is a wiki - all of us can contribute to make it better! (WT-en) Riggwelter 12:35, 3 July 2007 (EDT)
 * These listings are of no value and should be deleted. (WT-en) WindHorse 11:51, 9 July 2007 (EDT)
 * The hotels also need classifying under 'Budget' or 'Mid range'. My personal knowledge of Ireland only extends as far as Cork and Waterford, so I'm afraid I cannot help. (WT-en) WindHorse 11:54, 9 July 2007 (EDT)

Updated article
Well, it's taken me some time (I do have a life!), but I've significantly updated this article to include much more information on Sligo. I've changed it to a article, but how do I know if I can call it a  ? Perhaps more is required to get it to this standard? As I've amended it, I'd feel wrong just calling it a guide, even though I think it probably is. (and yes, I do have more information to add to it, jsut haven't got there yet, give me time!). --(WT-en) The.Q 10:52, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

 * The article is looking wonderful--my hat's off to you! I would, though, encourage you to add content to the "get out" section to make the article truly guide-quality. A short bulleted list of nearby (and related) destinations worth visiting would do the job nicely. This, I think, is a good example of how to present the "get out" information, although the list of nearby destinations for Sligo does not need to be so long. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:06, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Thanks. I have now added some ===Get Out=== info, mostly thrown together from memory (with some help from various Wikivoyage and Wikipedia articles), but it's a start. I'd be interested to know what anyone thinks. --(WT-en) The.Q 08:03, 25 October 2007 (EDT)
 * As usual, the quality of your work exceeds all usual expectations—the get out section looks great! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:19, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

usablecity template v guidecity template
Swept in from the pub:

I've just updated the Sligo article, and now I've hit a minor problem. How do I decide if it's a or  article? As I've made most of the changes to the page recently, I think it's a guide, but because I'm Irish (we don't like blowing our own trumpets!), I'm not confident enough to call it a guide. How do I know which I should call it? --(WT-en) The.Q 11:06, 19 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Thanks for asking, and may your tribe increase -- this kind of introspection and consensus-building is a good thing. I believe that's a Guide-level article and have made the indicated change, but to answer your question directly, check Project:Article status for general guidance as to when Guide or Usable are appropriate, and Project:City guide status for info specific to City articles.  (BTW, I have a few suggestions for further improvements to that article that I'll leave on your talk page, although you've done a tremendous job with it.) -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 11:55, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

Glasshouse listing
Is this hotel a particularly important building? The photo has nice light, but the building doesn't seem special to me, giving rise to my thought that it is a promotional image, in violation of Listings guidelines. Would anyone object if the image were removed? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:42, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sligo


text:
Talk:Slovakia

Use of Esperanto?
I removed the following sentence from talk:

"If you speak the international language Esperanto, you can take advantage of the network of Esperanto delegates scattered across Slovakia."

I don't really want to be mean to the Esperanto language, but with apparently 10,000 fluent speakers globally I find it hard to believe that this is going to be much use to use when you travel to Slovakia and ask for a hotel room.

Googling 'Esperanto' and 'slovakia' together also did not yield any particular affinity this country has with the language. Andrewssi2 (talk) 08:29, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Esperanto is more like a "hobby" for the speakers, a language that you probably can use at a few establishments but by no means need to study before traveling anywhere (unless you're going to some Esperanto event, but then you will likely already speak it). Members of the Esperanto speaking community probably know best where they can make use of it.
 * It might be that there are more Esperantists than the average in Slovakia, but I wouldn't say you would run into Esperanto language signs at least in northern or western Slovakia that I've visited. For being a former Eastern Bloc country they speak excellent English in Slovakia, by the way. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:33, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

 * I am living in Slovakia and you will need a lot of luck to meet a person, who at least know about Esperanto. As for English, it is much better, but I think using "excellent" in this context is somewhat inaccurate (but obviously as a Slovak, I don’t have direct travel experience ;) )Lubosb (talk) 17:41, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

 * English skills compared to e.g. Hungary, Poland to some extent, Lithuania and Russia. --ϒpsilon (talk) 17:52, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Regions...?
So with this - let's just say "unorthodox" - edit, it may be worthwhile to ask ourselves whether the region division makes sense or not. I have been to Slovakia once quite some time ago and am thus no expert, but the way all our other articles handle region division would indicate to simply revert this "traditional region" addition. However, maybe it is worthwhile to assess whether tourist regions could or should be (partially) based on that. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:56, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

 * Maybe, but for the time being, I reverted the edit, with the following edit summary: "Please discuss on the Talk page. I think this will confuse readers." I don't have an opinion about the optimal division, but that chart was way too complicated, I think. I believe User:Andree.sk is Slovak, and I would invite her (him?) to offer a suggestion of the most user-friendly way to handle the regional division of Slovakia. It's best to discuss things like revised regional divisions and come to a consensus. I would support anything that is decided based on a consensus that it's the most user-friendly and logical way to go, keeping in mind that we don't want to have articles about regions too small to contain at least 7 or so city and/or "other destinations" articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:03, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

 * The thing is, there are far too many cities/villages/places in Slovakia that don't really deserve a separate travel page (IMO). Thus my plan was to describe each region in a section of the respective country part page (like "Central Slovakia" -> "Liptov", "Horehronie"), until there's a enough content for it to have separate page. Sure, you can describe attractions in Liptov in each city's page, but often that doesn't even respect the geography. "Liptov" for example is basically a valley in Slovakia, where there are multiple things to do. Would you describe each "feature" in the page of the nearest city? "Central Slovakia" is too big to just put stuff there without any structure. The distances aren't prohibitively long to visit any of the parts within the sub-region from any of the cities inside (plus sometimes there are relations such that there would be tons of cross-linking). How will the traveller find the relations? I know that when I travel, the most irritating thing is that I cannot find any information "summarizing" the region and what to do there. Even quickly figuring out which region "Munich" in Germany belongs to is sometimes stupidly hard, and finding what to do outside the city even more so. I likely can't/won't describe whole Slovakia. But I think this was actually a good thing, because right now the Slovakia coverage is nearely 0 (apart from few touristy regions)... Someone can always rewrite/split it later - but more info is better than less IMO, esp. if it is structured logically. Andree.sk (talk) 06:29, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

 * As for the "too complicated" issue, I don't see that problem, but you may be right. Perhaps the region map from wikipedia could be "tagged", or recreated to a "click map". But I don't have time for that currently... So either the info will be just missing (good luck finding "Liptov" then, travellers), or... you can suggest a better way to summarize this info. Andree.sk (talk) 06:31, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

 * For the places that don't deserve a separate travel page but collectively merit one, I would offer the possible analogy of Rural Montgomery County, which is a Guide-level article on an area of countryside that includes a few towns without sufficient points of interest to have their own separate articles. Organizationally, it's treated as a city, not a region (as region articles are expected to point to city articles within the region), and given the Small city article template and its own map.

 * In terms of finding out which region Munich is in, the breadcrumb trail at the top of its page shows that it's in Upper Bavaria, and the first sentence of its article states that "Munich is the capital city of the German federal state of Bavaria." And the "Go next" section at the end of the article gives information about a bunch of places within a 2-hour drive or train ride. The Munich article and its district articles actually got worked on quite a bit, and Munich was featured on the front page not too long ago. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:10, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

 * Okay. I didn't mean "Munich" as literary example regarding wikivoyage, but anyhow - I will have a look on the county guide above, and maybe I can figure out some similar solution for this (I still think that mentioning the regional names is a good thing, you really still see it used in many places in Slovakia). Andree.sk (talk) 08:30, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

 * I think you're right that mentioning the regional names is useful, but I think where it will probably be most useful is in region articles, where the traditional regions within whichever larger regions we choose to use as traveller-friendly divisions of Slovakia can be laid out in a fashion that might be less likely to overwhelm a reader. That's my thought, anyway. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:42, 19 October 2016 (UTC)

 * Regional names can be mentioned in the "regionnitems" parameters in the Regionlist template. See an example at United States of America. Powers (talk) 15:05, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

 * So I was thinking... and "found out" that West/Central/East Slovakia is no more official than the "Traditional" regions division (compare with Czech republic, which is also in fact "culturally" divided only to 2 or 3 parts). Thus I am thinking that, once I gain some more permissions, I would do some reorganizing to match the official Slovakia regions - Regions_of_Slovakia, and perhaps mention the traditional region names only there... What do you guys think? Of course I don't want to start this and find in the middle of the process some stuff was reverted, figuring out which. And I'd like to do it in few hours time top, as to not have it inconsistent... Andree.sk (talk) 19:16, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

 * Your work is not going to be reverted if it's talked out and people are fine with it. I would say, make a proposal for how you'd like to divide the country for the purposes of Wikivoyage. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:49, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Regions proposal
Ok, I think this will be optimal solution:

The regions will be changed from West/Central/East Slovakia to Regions_of_Slovakia. This should cover most of the needs.

The special/interesting tourism regions:

can then be mentioned like it's done in South_Moravia, after the cities, in the respective political regions... Some (well, most) areas like Spiš do reside in multiple regions, but probably it won't hurt to have such areas mentioned in both political regions (or just in the one that mostly contains it).

We could go deeper, similarly as shown above in United States of America. But while politically Slovakia is subdivided into districts like that, I'd say we won't find enough content for each district - most of the time, the main city articles should be IMO enough to cover them...

Andree.sk (talk) 06:40, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

 * Thanks for making a proposal. My question would be: How many city articles (including articles about several villages put together, given a WV:Small city article template) and/or "other destinations" articles do you think each of these regions could contain? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:15, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

 * I'd say approx. <10-15 references could be in each (except of course Bratislava), but it's hard to predict... In any case, it would be more useful than current division - "Central Slovakia" is a very incoherrent pack of areas (polically, culturally and naturally). Perhaps we could create the regions pages first, then fix west/central/east pages, and fix this main page as the last step. I'm esp. not sure if I'll have the patience to create the map :)) Andree.sk (talk) 10:19, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

 * There are some great mapmakers on this site. Anyway, with 10-15 links, that's quite a handful, so I would give you my blessings. If there is no objection within a day or two, I'd suggest you go ahead with creating the new region articles and putting the appropriate links in the "Cities" and "Other destinations" sections. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:05, 22 October 2016 (UTC)

 * I have created a sample region page, please check it out - Žilina Region - and we can discuss there... I think it kind of makes sense and isn't too overwhelming. The tourist regions can nicely cover a few attractions found around the cities - or can be at least used for orientation for the travellers. After we agree it's good, I will add the rest of the regions and replace the division on this page. I think we can use the existing wikipedia maps (with small modifications, light "graying-out" the non-relevant parts) until someone reworks them to wikivoyage style, they are quite nice (except for printing)... Andree.sk (talk) 07:40, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

 * Thanks for creating that article! I see you created a "Regions" section. Do you intend to subdivide every region into smaller regions that get their own articles? If not, I would suggest not using the Regions Template, but instead, simply giving the names of cities. However, you can use subregions as subtitles if that makes for ease in organizing the "Cities" list. "Notable villages" should be a subset of "Cities"; "Other destinations" are not primarily defined as settlements (cities, towns, villages) but as parks, wildlife preserves, islands, etc.

 * In terms of the maps, I need to go to bed now but would suggest asking in the Travellers' pub whether anyone would like to make them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:59, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

 * OK, if you are going to subdivide each region into other regions, don't list all the cities. Instead, have a "Regions" section and then a "Cities" section that lists no more than 9 cities (including villages), just as in country-level articles. It's only in the articles for bottom-level regions that are not subdivided into smaller regions that all cities, no matter how many there are articles for, are listed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:28, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

 * I have added an alternative version of the article to Talk:Žilina Region. I think the current one looks better though, so I'll probably stick with it for now. I'll try to adjust the template. But I kind of like the Regionlist template, so I'd keep it there - plus add the few notable entries into the "Cities" section. It can be all reorganized later, if needed (or if there's not enough content or whatever). But I'd say putting it on a single page won't be good - it could look like Northern Hungary, which is IMO quite overwhelming. Andree.sk (talk) 12:20, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

 * Just to clarify: If there will be articles about the subregions you are listing in the Žilina article, you should use "Regions", "Cities" and "Other destinations" sections, just as in a country-level article. However, you should not list and link every city. The basic organizational concept of WV:Breadcrumb navigation is that it is only in bottom-level region articles (that is, for regions that we don't further subdivide into smaller regions) that every city (and village) for which there's an article should be and must be listed. For everything above a bottom-level region in the hierarchy, the 7+2 rule applies. If you have any questions about any of this, please post them below. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:50, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

 * I discovered https://fr.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Slovaquie_orientale ... so it seems that the split into smaller regions is justified, there is plenty of possible content (if someone finds time translating it also to english). The only decision to be made is whether to keep eastern/central/western slovakia, or split it at main page into political regions (and then further to tourist regions), or split it directly into the tourist regions... I'd say the last would be probably the best, I reckon no tourist really needs the policital region map. Andree.sk (talk) 17:36, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

 * Have you looked at our guidance for dividing geographical units? We try not to exceed nine subregions to a region. There are a few exceptions, but I really think the 20+ tourist regions are way too many to list at once. It's going to overwhelm most people who know nothing about Slovakia.
 * If you think that long-term there can be enough content to support most of those tourist regions, I'd suggest leaving the Western/Central/Eastern split in place and start adding the missing destinations to those regions. Maybe pick one and focus on it. Once there are more cities and other destinations, I think we'll have a better idea of whether each tourist region can support its own guide or if some of them should be combined.
 * I'm happy to help out with revising the map if needed. -Shaundd (talk) 22:33, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

 * After a bit of tinkering (see User:Andree.sk, I came to the same conclusion... Let's leave the current split, and just add another level (with contents like Abov)... I'd like to do it in one run, because the current regions are a mess anyhow - and want I to leave behind a smaller mess (esp. if I get bored/interrupted/...). I think the region list should be semifinal, so if someone wants to take Tourism regions of Slovakia en.png and from that create siblings to Slovaquie_orientale_région_WV.png for west/central Slovakia, I'll only be thankful :-) PS: I got SVG from the author of the east, if needed. Andree.sk (talk) 22:50, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

 * Even after looking at the work done on French Wikivoyage, I'm not convinced we need to create 20+ sub-regions. The current regions strike me as being fairly clean but not very useful because they don't do anything other than list cities. Creating 20 useful region guides is *a lot* of work and there isn't a whole lot of content to start with. Rather than creating a region list template with red links (or nearly empty region articles), have you considered breaking the list of destinations down by tourist region and adding a good description of the place, kind of like the Okanagan? If things go well, pages for the tourist regions can be created later. -Shaundd (talk) 23:42, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Update: here's a rough example of what I meant . The brief region descriptions would need to be improved, but this is the general idea of what I was suggesting. -Shaundd (talk) 00:14, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * I mean - sure, I'm not going to describe whole Slovakia (most likely I'll only translate east + add some central slovakia stuff). As you said - it's a ton of work. But if there is no base "infrastructure", adding content is hard for new-comers. It's the reason why I'm doing this, and why I first made so many mistakes - a new guy just wants to add some information, not discover for 5 days, what the organization should be... So yes - initially, the contents will be empty for some places, some (~half) regions will be red links. But I don't see your example being too much clearer than just doing the "right thing" from the start. We can still make the current east/central/west regions more verbese, at least until reasonable content is added/moved into the 20 regions... 20 regions is IMO ok, because it's [+- http://slovakia.travel/en/places-to-go/tourist-regions official tourist regions split] (also for me as a local it +- makes sense). Bottom line is - it seems we can agree on the split, so I'll just do it this weekend. Adjustments can be done later, ok? Andree.sk (talk) 07:06, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Individual attractions, restaurants and the likes should go into city articles. You also have to remember that the vast majority of the readers here is not Slovak and does not speak Slovak. I would prefer a number of subregions smaller than 20, to be quite honest. If the current three are unworkable, maybe something like five to nine subregions might work? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:22, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi all. The damage is done for now... Since I don't feel like spending another day making maps, I suggest we leave the merging of some of the regions for the guy who does it. But I'd say we should stick to the official tourist regions, I'm sure someone more knowledgable than us decided it's a good idea... Also I suggest the discussion is moved under the respective regions. But since there's hardly any real activity there, I think I'll be the only one adding content there in the near future :) In any case, I'll try to keep the wikivoyage rules as much as possible - feel free to fix what's needed. Andree.sk (talk) 21:19, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

"Learn"
"Learn" is not envisioned on Wikivoyage as a section with a list of universities and such. Even at the local (city or district) level, where listings are appropriate, they should be only for schools where a non-matriculated student can take or audit classes during a ~2-week visit. Instead of all these links, there should be an overview in prose in the "Learn" section for the country that can mention the highest highlights of universities that admit foreign students. Schools in Bratislava should be listed in the Bratislava article if they give ~2-week courses for non-matriculated students, not here, and listings shouldn't be just a name, description and link. These were the contents of the "Learn" section:

The most important universities in Slovakia include:
 * Comenius Univerzity - the oldest existing Slovak university, in Bratislava
 * Slovak University of Technology - located in Bratislava, technical subjects such as IT, engineering, physics etc.
 * - the university of Trnava
 * - a university in Banská Bystrica
 * University of Economics - located in Bratislava, focus on business and economics
 * Selye János University - in Komarno, the only university in Slovakia offering tuition in Hungarian
 * University of St Ciril and Methodeus - a university in Trnava
 * Technical University in Kosice - a technical university in Kosice
 * Pavol Jozef Šafárik University in Košice, it was established in 1959 as the second classical University in Slovakia
 * Catholic university in Ružomberok

At the secondary schooling level, there are several bilingual schools in Slovakia. The International Baccalaureate program with international recognition and transferability that is taught entirely in English can be studied at Gymnazium Jura Hronca in Bratislava.

 * - The first state language school in Bratislava
 * - The oldest private language school in Bratislava and the fourth oldest school in the country.

Video to help you learn about Slovakia can be found at High Tatras TV.

Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:45, 27 October 2016 (UTC)

Slovakia remapping
Hi guys. For whatever reason, Slovakia was mapped using the obsolete political (and too generic) division. I am on the crusade of redoing this in the following days, and I could use someone experienced to create wikivoyage-style maps. For now, I'll just adjust wikipedia svg's (political region and tourist region maps of Slovakia) - maybe that will be best start. Volunteers please head to talk:Slovakia, thanks! :-) Andree.sk (talk) 08:37, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
 * It looks like you've been here a couple of weeks--we're happy to have you. Have you looked at Mapmaking Expedition? You may have some luck posting there. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 14:17, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

'Relax' section
Why is there a section called 'Relax' in this article? Does its inclusion have any foundation in policy in certain cases? There's certainly no such section in the Country article template.

Assuming the section is not allowed, information (about spas and water parks) must be moved, what do people think is the best course of action? The obvious choice to me would be to put it in 'Do', but perhaps others will have a better idea. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:54, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

 * 24 hours later, no reply, so I have plunged forward and moved the info to 'Do'. If anyone has anything to say, your thoughts are still welcome. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:25, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Wikidata items for dynamic map
Below is the map with all Wikidata items for the districts of Slovakia. This should simplify the work in case we want to change the district set-up in the future. The tool Wikidata Extractor has been used to create the mapshapes.--Renek78 (talk) 16:07, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Anyone able to translate?
https://dennikn.sk/minuta/1796420/?ref=mpm

Seems Slovakia may have temporarily closed it's border? 14:09, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Slovakia


text:
Talk:Slovak phrasebook

Where are the toilet?
The article has the phrase 'Where are the toilet?'. This should either be 'Where are the toilets?' or 'Where is the toilet?'. Which one is it?--88.106.1.162 09:59, 6 September 2007 (EDT)

'o' sound
The text lists 'o' as being pronounced as in 'sport' and ó as being pronounced as in 'door'. Those are identical sounds in English, according to the IPA pronunciations in a dictionary, but presumably not in Slovak. 69.121.98.21 13:51, 12 October 2010 (EDT)

"-tsah" suffix might be inaccurate
Much of the vocabulary ending with the "-ica" suffix listed here is transcribed into English as "-tsah". I find this a controversial interpretation, as it gives foreigners the mistaken impression an "h" must be always pronounced at the end. This is at odds with actual Slovak pronunciation, as no one in the country pronounces a clear "h" at the end of the aforementioned suffix. At most, you might hear a very whispy ending to the "a", because of the "ts" sound of the Slovak pronunciation of "c". But there isn't any clearly heard "h" there, not even by mistake. --ZemplinTemplar (talk) 11:21, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

 * Hello. As a native English speaker, it would never cross my mind that the 'H' would be pronounced, just like it isn't in the interjections "ah!", "tah!", or "argh!" Having said that, there is still some ambiguity to the vowel sound of the A. Is it like the long A in father (, the short A in back, or something else? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:35, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Slovak phrasebook


text:
Talk:Slovenia

Burek
Regardless of whether bureks are Slovenian or not, the fact is that they are certainly widely available throughout the country (and I recommend the little joint in front of Ljubljana's train station). So please don't delete this... instead, feel free to add 'really' Slovene food.

Now, the Central vs Eastern Europe debate is another thing, I happen to agree with you but please continue the discussion under Talk:Europe before making any changes. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:47, 16 Nov 2004 (EST)

Research links removed from article
These external links were removed from the article, as they did not meed the external links guidelines, but may assist contributors. -- (WT-en) Huttite 00:59, 18 Jan 2006 (EST) a part of staying safe was modified since it some people might find it offensive
 * Sinfo - Slovenia Information

Some more:

Dovje Mojstrana

 * [mailto:radka@telemach.net Accommodations in Triglav National Park]

Kranjska Gora

 * Hotels in Kranjska Gora [mailto:triglav@centrum.cz Emailus]

Bled

 * local tourist organisations

Cyrillic and Russian?
Cyrillic alphabet, while it was taught to "middle" generation (parts of Yugoslavia used cyrillic), is not used anywhere, so people have mainly forgot it. Russian language was not taught, and while it is also a slavic language it deviates quite a bit. Some basic words are common (across many slavic languages), but don't expect too much.

So... this info doesn't seem too useful, and can be deceiving.

 * This section was becoming a mess in which most information was given at least twice. I cleaned it up and, in agreement with the above, watered down the understanding of Slavic languages to "communication is possible, but requires effort". I removed cyrillic alphabet which is read by Serbian and Macedonian minority at best, and by those speaking Russian, which is not commonly taught any more. (WT-en) JanezDemsar 02:19, 21 August 2010 (EDT)

Advertisements?
An inside tip would be Adam Ravbar beer, which is usually hard to find anywhere except in their small brewery (located in Domžale, a town about 10 km north of Ljubljana). Is this allowed here? I mean... it's not some very popular beer. Never heard of it until now. OTOH, one can find smaller breweries here and there.

 * "Allowed"? It's a free country website, and it does say that it's an "inside tip". (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:53, 25 September 2008 (EDT)

 * I'd agree^. Wikipedia is supposed to be as objective as possible. We shouldn't try to give aside hints to the reader... —The preceding comment was added by Bradleyswissman (talk • contribs)
 * This isn't Wikipedia. LtPowers (talk) 19:45, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Talking badly about...
"Slovenians also (like many Europeans) don't like American foreign policy, their way of living or habits, so be careful when you discuss European-American relations. Most people lived a good life during the socialist era, so try not talk badly about Cuba, Venezuela or Russia, since Slovenians tend to be pretty sensitive to this subject."

This is somewhat oddly written. I've lived here for 23 years and never got into a heated argument with people about any of those countries. While Slovenes tend to have a better opinion about Russia than for example, Czechs, Poles and other nations which had direct contact with Russia, the vast majority really doesn't have either a very positive or a very negative opinion about Cuba or Venezuela. I think this part of the text is quite unnecessary. 94.127.29.247 14:12, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

re: I think slovenians are very reserved / sensitive and won't talk about more 'socialist' systems in those countries. But if you force us to then discussion can be very heated as we are still very divided into those in favour of partisans who often liked old socialist system and the other half that viewed it as a brutal regime. It all goes to partisans and domobrans and both view each other as traitors/collaborators.

In this view I've changed text on the page from Nazi-collaborator factions to axis-sponsored anti-communist reactionary factions - hear me why: 1) Italy was arming these units too 2) domobrans collaborators were almost unique in that they were not true collaborators as its base wasn't fascist as most collaborators in other countries were but rather an answer to communist terror. It's worth mentioning that even though they are often labelled as collaborators they in some instances helped allied pilots and all of their songs were in slovene even though slovenian language was forbidded under germans which is a sigh of defiance. Also, not one of these songs had any fascist connotations, most were about fight against partisans/communists or about our country (check youtube if you want). As you can see those were dificult times, people were forced to choose between two evils - between collaboration with germany to fend off communists or vice-versa. So I hope you'll agree I had no foul intentions and that I haven't changed history section or misrepresented domobranci (I think axis-sponsored anti-communists is still descriptive enough that you can form an objective opinion), I've only made it so that the text is now respectful of both sides. :)

 * Agreed. Respect sections, unfortunately, tend to attract a lot of silliness. Please feel free to remove/reduce any other silliness you see. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:31, 26 April 2009 (EDT)

Regions
Ten top-level regions seem like a few too many for Slovenia. I've cut it down to six -- let me know if you any thoughts, objections, etc. Cheers - (WT-en) Shaund 00:41, 23 March 2010 (EDT)

 * I deem these good (as they match what can easily be used for travel. As they do not match the official regions/areas in Slovenia: Would it be wise to add a note about that (e.g. "For travel purposes, we have divided the information into the following regions (unofficial):" or so)?
 * Sure. My phrasing would be "the following unofficial regions", but that's a trivial difference. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:50, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

Respect
''As in other countries of ex Yugoslavia, in Slovenia there is still sexual segregation. Women are paid miserably less for same work than men. Slovenian men mostly act like gentlemens, but also sublime towards women at the same time. Women shouldn't express their feministic opinion too much, since Slovenian women like their position (nevertheless, they're being spoiled) and men don't want to give too much power to women. Information that Slovenian parliament has the less female senators in whole Europe in strong enough.''

This text seems pointless -- women shouldn't express their feminist opinion or ... they get unwelcome at best and beaten at worst, or what?! There's no real advice or information for a traveler here, and nothing of it is substantiated. I see no causal relation to Yugoslavian past, "segregation" is a badly chosen word, "miserably less" is not so much less (and probably not any different than anywhere else in developed world -- prove otherwise), women "like the situation" since they are being "spoiled" (source?), and the last sentence is pretentious and, besides, grammatically wrong (as some other parts, too, like "gentlemens"). I know this site is not as strict as Wikipedia, but I still think that this paragraph is unsubstantiated forum-like chatting. (WT-en) JanezDemsar 16:00, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

 * I agree that this entry had no value for travelers. Our respect sections for some reason attract a lot of pointless ranting, and "advice" that would apply to much anywhere in the world (see Respect). Please do feel free to trim any other unnecessary or unhelpful prose from that section! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:09, 8 August 2010 (EDT)

 * I did so - it was too long and made it appear that there is a civil war going on between east and west, so everybody stay away or else. (It actually doesn't go beyond telling jokes about one another, except when it comes to football fans). Since we have an active editor adding references to Maribor and Balkan all over the page, here's a list of changes (I would ask the abovementioned colleague to join the discussion before reverting the changes, I really don't intend to enter an editor war):
 * I removed the prose about difference in "openness" in eastern and western regions and other thoughts on cultural diversity between Ljubljana and Maribor (including a photo of Maribor hooligans), and warnings about not getting into discussions about Ljubljana and Maribor. All of this is completely subjective (I live in Ljubljana and don't sense any of these) and certainly irrelevant for travelers.
 * I removed the paragraph about giving sits to elderly on the buses as this hardly specific for Slovenia.
 * I merged the paragraphs about discussing Soviet bloc, communism, Eastern Europe into a single shorter paragraph about "interesting" topics.
 * I merged the paragraphs about border issues with Croatia and the Slovenian civil war into a single paragraph on taboo topics.
 * I simplified the paragraph on LBGT. The original text was also rather unclear; I believe that the current version gives an objective description, although I'm not an expert.
 * I removed the paragraph on racism since there is nothing specific about Slovenia here; as elsewhere in Europe, city people are used to seeing tourists of all kinds, while in villages any foreigner would get curious looks.
 * In practical advices, I removed the one about using formal form (vikanje, as "Sie" instead of "du" in German or "vous" instead of "tu" in French). Anybody who can speak Slovenian, knows about it, others will just get confused.
 * I also removed a tip about applauding on the planes; I travel a lot and haven't heard it for a decade
 * I simplified other practical advices
 * I changed Slovene back to Slovenian, since the latter form is preferred to avoid bad associations
 * In general, I didn't add much, the intention was to make the existing text more focused and less wordy.
 * (WT-en) JanezDemsar 10:25, 10 August 2010 (EDT)

Buy: tipping
Section on tipping claimed that tipping is expected from foreigners, while most Slovenians don't tip. This is not true: I give tips or at least round the sum up, and so do my friends (you'd seem a jerk if you didn't). Besides, there is no difference in expectations from foreigners and "domestic" guests, as the sentence would suggest. The remark however reappeared in two days, even accompanied with an exclamation mark and without "most". Mariborko, given that we cannot agree on the fact, I suggest removing it. (WT-en) JanezDemsar 07:09, 10 August 2010 (EDT)

Horse meat
Can someone add some information on horse meat in Slovenian cuisine? I heard that horse meat is quite standard in Slovenia, but it is not mentioned in this article. I'd like to try some of these dishes, but I don't know any names. 94.209.60.174 09:09, 23 May 2011 (EDT)

Get in entry requirements
In case anyone wants to know the source of my edits to include information about the visa exemption for 'Annex II' nationals to work during their 90 day visa-free entry, see this European Union document -. (WT-en) Yeahtravel 09:37, 31 May 2011 (EDT)

Laibach
Anonymous user keeps deleting this box because "lyrics from disco bands don't belong in a travel guide". I believe it's an interesting (though touty) bit and fits here per tone. Thoughts? Jjtk (talk) 09:54, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

 * Really, you think this stuff belongs in a travel guide? How is this useful to someone visiting Slovenia in any way? It's like putting a discography of Rammstein on the travel page of Germany. It simply doesn't belong here, period. —The preceding comment was added by 190.97.204.37 (talk • contribs)

 * That's why it's in a sidebar (or "infobox" in our parlance); it's tangential information of interest to certain travelers who want to know interesting factoids about a place. LtPowers (talk) 18:38, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

 * So, you are saying we should add a factoid-infobox about Rammstein on Germany's travel page? —The preceding comment was added by 190.97.204.37 (talk • contribs)

 * No, I'm saying we could, if there was something interesting (and at least tangential to travel) to say about them. LtPowers (talk) 21:19, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

 * But that's exactly my point. This Laibach disco band is about as travel-related in Slovenia as Rammstein is travel-related in Germany. These bands have nothing to do with travel at all, not to mention that Laibach disco band isn't even nearly as popular in Slovenia as Rammstein is popular in Germany. So, if we want to keep this factoid on Slovenia's travel guide article, we must definitely put one up on Germany's travel guide article as well. —The preceding comment was added by 190.97.204.37 (talk • contribs)

 * I'd say keep this. I'm a different generation & have no idea who Rammstein are. but this seems an interesting aspect of Slovenia and I can well imagine travellers wanting to hear this band during a visit. Pashley (talk) 23:11, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

 * I'd say Laibach is the best known band from Slovenia - the only one I heard about and even read in books (Martin Pollack, pretty well known writer in Central Europe had a chapter on them in one of his books). So they're "culturally significant". Keep. Jjtk (talk) 09:29, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

 * So because Martin Pollack mentioned that disco band, it should be kept in a travel article? Really? The same Martin Pollack, the so-called "writer", who doesn't even have an article on English Wikipedia. That to me sounds as credible and even more importantly, justifiable, as some local village gossip. And no, Laibach is not nearly as popular in Slovenia as Rammstein is popular in Germany. Sorry, but that's a fact. I can't believe you keep arguing that disco music should be brought up in a travel article, it seems I've just entered a bubble that you guys live in. Isn't internet great? —The preceding comment was added by 190.97.204.37 (talk • contribs)

 * Have you looked at some of our other travel guides? We post interesting factoids like this all the time.  LtPowers (talk) 19:08, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

 * Like I've said, let's post a factoid about Rammstein on Germany's travel page. People visiting Germany will be interested to know that Rammstein is what defines the German culture, like Laibach is what defines the culture in Slovenia. By the way, I'm being sarcastic. —The preceding comment was added by 190.97.204.37 (talk • contribs)
 * Where does it say that Laibach defines Slovenian culture? LtPowers (talk) 16:57, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

 * The comparison between Rammstein and Laibach doesn't make much sense to me, as Laibach is perhaps the largest (or, at least, the most well-known) modern musical export of Slovenia, while Rammstein, no matter how popular an act it might be (and likely moreso than Laibach overall), plays no such role for Germany. (Admittedly having no interest in industrial music, I had heard about both of the bands before this discussion; yet I can name at least five other bands performing various genres from Germany without even having to think, but no other from Slovenia.) Vidimian (talk) 18:23, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

How is Laibach "largest musical export of Slovenia" and who is the exporter if it's indeed such a significant industry? And after all this nonsense from that "factoid", you still think it belongs in a travel article. Really, if you want people to laugh each time they read this article, then go ahead and put it back. Also, Rammstein is a lot more known than Laibach worldwide, so it would make much more sense to put a Rammstein factoid on the Germany's travel article than putting Laibach's on this one. —The preceding comment was added by 190.97.204.37 (talk • contribs)

 * Please check Google for others who consider Laibach a Slovene export. I don't mean to be blunt but Laibach simply is a "big" band from a "small" country, with a unique imagery to say the least, and even having a "kunst" unto itself — which makes it remarkable enough to be mentioned in the article in my opinion. I don't really get why it's such a big deal. And yes, we actually want people to "laugh" (in the positive sense of the word) when reading this article, or all others on Wikivoyage, for that matter; please see Tone for more on this. Vidimian (talk) 22:35, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

 * If 190.97 is now questioning the factual basis of the infobox, that's an entirely different question than the one I've been addressing. LtPowers (talk) 00:54, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

 * Consensus seems to be leaning towards keeping the infobox, so I'm restoring it. Vidimian (talk) 18:14, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

The thing in brackets behind the regions
It seems weird to have those things in brackets behind the regions. We usually only do that if we group a bigger number of regions or if there are well known subregions of our regions (e.g. the states of the USA), but here neither seems to be the case. Do they need to be there? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:36, 30 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you're talking about. Can you clarify what you mean by "behind"? Powers (talk) 17:41, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
 * "Coast and Karst (Piran, Postojna)" - the thing in brackets behind the name of the regions is what I should have said. Apparently it is a city or several cities in any given region. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:53, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, yes. Those lists should be exhaustive lists of constituent sub-entities, not simply examples of localities.
 * As an aside, "behind" as a preposition that refers to location is somewhat ambiguous in English when the subject is textual. "after" or "following" would be much clearer.
 * -- Powers (talk) 14:36, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

spam/advertising and touting by fanboys in a country travel article
Adding infoboxes and a whole paragraph of advertisement for one single musical band violates both NPOV and Wikivoyage:Don't tout and to most readers looks like in your face spam/advertising. Also urging travelers to attend their concerts clearly violates the Wikivoyage policy on touting.

I'm not opposed to mention Laibach, along with some other musical bands and musicians, in a sentence in the article, but adding infoboxes and paragraphs eulogizing the band looks like spam that fanboys would do.

Reading the article Music of Slovenia on wikipedia, I did not get the impression from the article that Laibach stands out that much in Slovenian music to merit this kind of advertisement in a travel article. This is what the article says "Laibach [ˈlaɪbax] is a Slovenian avant-garde music group strongly associated with Nazism, martial, and neo-classical musical styles. Laibach formed June 1, 1980 in Trbovlje, Slovenia (then Yugoslavia). Laibach represents the music wing of the Neue Slowenische Kunst (NSK) art collective, of which it was a founding member in 1984. The name "Laibach" is the German name for Slovenia's capital city, Ljubljana." So they have certainly some importance within Slovenian industrial music, but not necessarily of Slovenian music in general.

It would be as absurd as adding an infobox on Rammstein in the Germany country article, along with lenghty paragraphs claiming that they are the best or most noteworthy band of Germany. Because it seems to be in your face advertising, I think it should be reduced to about one sentence, and other musicians and bands should also be mentioned. --124.123.62.243 04:54, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

 * On the face of it, what you're saying sounds reasonable. Side point, though: NPOV is expressly not Wikivoyage policy. Instead, we have Be fair, which is not quite the same. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:25, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Slovenia


text:
Talk:Slovenian phrasebook

Pronunciation
The pronunciation guide in this phrasebook contridicts the pronunciations written in brackets within phrases themselves. It says "a" is pronounced "u" like in "mum" yet says the word "hvala" (thank you) to be pronounced as (HVAH-lah). This isn't the only place, it is thoughout the text. The pronunciations aren't the only thing that is off, the entire phrasebook is a mess. Sorry to criticise, and well done to the person/s who created it, but it needs sorting; I'll help in anyway I can but my knowledge of the language ends beyond knowing where it is spoken.

 * Yeah, Slovene vowels are a mess. I've fixed the weird a-as-in-mum thing (which doesn't sync with Wikipedia or my own experiences), but unfortunately I, too, am entirely unqualified to fix the rest of the guide... (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:07, 4 February 2007 (EST)

 * OK. I tried fixing phrasebook pronunciations. Not quite sure I got the 'englification' system right everywhere, but stresses were often on wrong syllables. In some cases this isn't a problem, as even we stress different syllables of some words in different dialects. In other cases it might be a problem. ie. 'govori':
 * - GOH-voh-ree - speeches (noun)
 * - goh-VOH-ree - speak! (as a request to a person)
 * - goh-voh-REE - (he/she/it) speaks (verb, present time, 3rd person singular)

alphabet
hm.. As Slovenian is my mother tongue, I can easily say that Slovenian does not have consonant "šč". So one please correct this. Slovenian consonants are: b, c, č, d, f, g, h, j, k, l, m, n, p, r, s, š, t, v, z, ž.

 * Slovenian is not phonemic: the sound of "šč" is not the same as saying "š+č". (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:59, 2 March 2007 (EST)

 * I'm native. They sound like š+č to me in ie. peščina, ščinkavec, slovenščina. One can definitely hear two sounds.

 * No reply, and http://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soglasnik doesn't list šč, so deleted (and added dž).

'o' is usually not pronounced as in 'hot', but more often like in 'hawk' or 'caught'. To make it confusing, we don't write signs on it, so "kosa", can be pronounced as kôsa and kósa (one meaning a sycle, the other 2 members of some bird species)

month names (old ones)
Can we just remove old month names? They're used very rarely. While natives are aware of them, I doubt many even know their proper order. To add to confusion, Croatian, Czech and Polish have some of similarly named months, which don't always represent the same time of year.

Incorrect translation for "you're welcome"
I just returned from Ljubljana and while there was told in no uncertain terms that "dobrodošli" is never used to mean "you're welcome", as in the exchange "thank you - you're welcome", as is shown in the phrasebook (which explains why many Slovenians looked at me funny when I used it this way). "Dobrodošli" is used to welcome people e.g. to your house or party or whatever, as in "Welcome to my house."

Correct responses to "hvala" ("thank you") are either "prosim" or "ni za kaj," but I'm not sure of the difference. Prosim literally means "please", ni za kaj means "no problem"

I hesitate to change the phrasebook since I know next to nothing of Slovenian, but if no one objects soon I will change it.

Elliott Wolin, elliott@wolinfamily.net 16:13, 28 October 2008 (EDT)129.57.10.188

doughnut
i have changed [doughnut --> obroč] to [doughnut --> krof] but i am not sure if pronunciation was done correctly. English is not my mother tongue so i am a bit skeptical. if you click on listen button on google translate it is actually pronounced as it should be krof 89.212.30.107 22:38, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Is anything unusual about how to pronounce "h"?
The phrasebook says "Also, note how you pronounce j and h in Slovene." But it gives no explicit details about why "h" might be unintuitive to an English speaker. In fact the example given for the letter H is the 'h' in "heat", which sounds very straightforward to me.

I'd request that someone who knows a bit of Slovenian revisit this "note how you pronounce h" warning—either remove it or explain it. Doubleplusjeff (talk) 23:58, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

When "l" is at end of word? syllable?
When l is at the end of a word or placed after any consonant other than j,   it is pronounced as w as in bel (BEW, "white"), popoldan (POPOWDAN, "afternoon").

I see a couple problems here:

 * 1) The 2nd example (popoldan) does not show "l" at the end of a word nor after any consonant.  So the rule must be more nuanced than we state.  I'm wondering if it should instead say "When l is at the end of a consonant or placed after any consonant other than j, it is pronounced as w."
 * 2) We don't show an example of "l" after a consonant.

It'd be great if someone knowledgeable in Slovenian could clean this up a bit! Doubleplusjeff (talk) 00:03, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Slovenian phrasebook


text:
Talk:Slow Food

Hmmm, I'm not sure if this is a travel article per se. Maybe take a look at What is an article?. I'd be more into it if it was a 'Slow Food Tour' or something destination-ish. (WT-en) Majnoona

Now I'm seeing all the redirects to this page. This is looking like a Slippery slope. Again, a good rule of thumb is, if you aren't going to sleep there it's not a destination. Maybe this could be more like the Black Rock City article, which isn't about a festival or an idea (though it has a lot to do with both), but a travel destination. Maybe you could head this that way? (WT-en) Majnoona

 * Maj: I see no reason to keep this article. Maybe I could see a Slow Food tour of Europe or something like that as an itinerary, but I just don't think what we have here is travel content. -- (WT-en) Evan 13:30, 10 Nov 2003 (PST)

title: Talk:Slow Food