text:
Talk:Doha

9.	What is the capital of Qatar and the capital’s population?

Banned book
What is our policy on censorship? Apparently one of the books listed in the 'Understand' section has just been banned by the Qatari Ministry of Culture, per Doha News. The book itself is no literary masterpiece, but it does offer some insight into a culture that is generally closed to outsiders. –StellarD (talk) 10:04, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know if we have a policy, but in the interest of the traveler, it would be important to mention that the book is banned in Qatar. We don't want travelers taking a book we recommended into the country and getting in trouble because of that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:09, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
 * ALL Middle Eastern countries have similar rules. And it's more than one book that is banned. In Dubai airport they confiscate any "materials contrary to Islam". I don't see why this particular book should be mentioned. Le Grand Bleu (talk) 18:33, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

Going to jail for eye contact
Someone called StellarD (and now also someone called Ikan Kekek) is trying to push a very strange "fact" into this article. She insists, in Qatar, you can go to jail for making eye contact with other drivers. While I have to admit driving in Doha is an experience I'd love to never have had and road rage is frequent, it's still NOT a wild country run by lunatics. And there is no legislation (or facts of enforcement thereof) that says a driver making eye contact with others goes to jail. Her best argument (on my talk page) for posting this nonsense is "my friend of a friend was afraid he'd be detained in the airport..." for "being pushed off the road by a non-uniformed (SIC!) military officer". Or some other rubbish like that, see my talk page for details. So I'm starting this little discussion. Has anyone here went to jail for making eye contact with other drivers in Doha. Sharing your experience will be greatly appreciated. Le Grand Bleu (talk) 10:59, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I would say driving in GC is almost of same style. I've been to GCC countries and in-fact lived in UAE for years but honestly speaking, I don't think any one can get to jail for eye contact. Yes, the driving is sometimes aggressive but I rarely seen people brawling. On the other hand, police of UAE, Qatar, Kuwait and Bahrain are helpful. --Saqib (talk) 11:05, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

 * I never meant to imply that eye contact alone could lead to jail time, but rather that it can make a road rage situation much worse. However, I do agree that the first version was poorly phrased and ambiguous, and reworked it (which has now been deleted not once but twice). I fail to see what is now so ambiguous about the last phrasing: visitors should be aware that 'any' gestures made with another driver can lead to jail time: in short, just grit your teeth! Because in some cultures direct eye contact can be considered confrontational, it is best avoided.

 * Re: driving in GCC countries, I've driven in several and Doha has by far the worst drivers as well as the highest traffic fatality rate (just google it). I understand that the driving in Dubai has improved considerably in recent years primarily due to police enforcement, something which is sorely lacking in Doha. Yes the police can be helpful, but they are usually not around in such instances, and wasta will ensure that the visitor, regardless of who is actually at fault, will usually be the one to take the blame for the accident (or incident).

 * –StellarD (talk) 14:49, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Seriously? You fail to see why we disagree with "ANY gestures made... can lead to jail time"? You seriously don't understand why we disagree with "direct eye contact... should be avoided"? You seriously don't see how incredibly generalized and offensive this is? I'd like to remind you that this project's main goal is "traveler first". You are telling the traveler to not look people in the eye. Which in ALL cultures, INCLUDING the Middle Eastern ones, is considered to be the sign of a person LYING or hiding something. On top of that, I have to say that your snide comments and broad generalizations both here and on my page show complete lack of respect to and knowledge of the country and the people of Qatar. I don't know why you hate that country, but you sure aren't the right person to contribute to this article. Le Grand Bleu (talk) 16:30, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Le Grand Bleu, while I somewhat agree with you but please avoid strong words against Stellar and avoid insulting. --Saqib (talk) 17:20, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I think this edit looks correct - barring some evidence to the contrary, the line being removed (about jail time for gestures and eye contact) seems likely to be highly inaccurate. That said, this discussion is made more difficult when personal attacks are levied against other users - please just stick to the facts without resorting to accusations about "hating" a country. -- Ryan • (talk) • 17:43, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

 * Would it be fair to say that "it's an unwritten law that foreigners (Westerners in particular?) should not even think of lecturing locals how to behave in traffic or questioning their manners elsewhere (including using gestures or unnecessary eye contact). Locals find it extremely insulting and police may put you in jail for it for "disrupting public order", "propagating foreign values" or some similar reason."
 * I've never been to the Middle East, but in most parts of the world locals indeed don't take it kindly if you criticize the local way of doing things. That's probably also how that military officer regarded it. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:04, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

 * Some gestures made from behind the wheel can be interpreted by other drivers to be insulting, even if they were not intended that way, and in certain countries, including Qatar, the person who feels they have been insulted can press charges. Drivers have gotten into serious trouble this way. –StellarD (talk) 18:40, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, I have to put a stop on that. Your friends have played a seniority card on me more than enough, so my turn now. While at university, I wrote an 40-page thesis on "Intercultural peculiarities of non-verbal communication" or, in simple English, how gestures are perceived by various nations. And I can tell you that the only gesture that differs significantly (apart from the world famous Bulgarians who nod to say "no" and shake head to say "yes"), is the famous OKAY hand gesture which among the Syrian criminals means "I'll kill you". So NO, there are NO polite gestures that can be misinterpreted as rude ones. Putting an end to that myth of yours. However, if you show the world renowned "middle finger" and you get the nuts kicked out of you for that (THAT did happen!), is it really the Qatari culture that's to blame? Le Grand Bleu (talk) 18:08, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
 * In the case of the military officer, he didn't like how the other driver looked at him. I don't believe the other driver lectured him (most people I know there wouldn't dare to). Subsequently, in order to avoid even potentially getting into a situation like this, my partner specifically avoided eye contact with aggressive drivers so that there could be no room for misinterpretation. –StellarD (talk) 18:40, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Again, I don't believe this story. Especially the "non-uniformed military" part. If he was non-uniformed, how did your friend of a friend know he was a military officer? But even that is irrelevant. Your friend got scared over a road rage incident. Subsequently (and that's the only subsequent event), he decided to avoid eye contact. It's ONE occasion with ONE person. You can't turn this into a general rule for ALL travelers on a world-wide traveling encyclopedia. Le Grand Bleu (talk) 18:15, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The concept of wasta is not confined to the Middle East, however for most Westerners it can take some getting used to. –StellarD (talk) 18:40, 19 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Stellar, you don't "listen" to others. I keep telling you over and over again that you generalize WAY too broadly. Even IF the story of your friend of a friend is true (which I doubt), it's just one occasion. You're trying to blow it up into a general advice to ALL travelers. An african american was recently shot in USA by the police. Can we now proclaim America is dangerous for black people? Princess Diana's death means it's dangerous to date Egyptians?
 * You run around the whole field trying to pull the discussion in all directions. You keep talking about someone being pushed off the road or afraid they'll be arrested at the airport or goodness knows what else. While this particular discussion is about one subject outlined in the title. Can you go to jail for LOOKING at another person on the road in Qatar? Are there proofs to that? Is there a legislation that allows that? Was it ever published in trustworthy media? If you are as experienced as your friends tell me you are, you should be familiar with Wikimedia policy about sources of information. Le Grand Bleu (talk) 18:21, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
 * User:Le Grand Bleu, I have no basis in knowledge for an opinion about driving in Doha, but I have plenty of basis for an opinion about how you've been treating StellarD. Restrict yourself to factual points only, and never again make any ad hominem or stereotypic attack on any user on this site. It's extremely important for people to be constructive on this site. Thank you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:09, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

 * Based on the discussion above and the current state of the article, I think this discussion may have run its course unless someone wants to see further changes. The relevant line about jail time for eye contact has been removed from the article, and unless someone can provide some decisive evidence that you really can be jailed for gesturing or making eye contact I think it should stay out since it seems unlikely to be fully accurate.  Regarding the larger points about road rage, per WV:Obvious we don't need a discussion of the dangers of flipping someone off since that's potentially dangerous anywhere in the world.  Beyond that, it seems like further updates are needed only if there is additional danger that isn't common to all Middle East countries, and if that danger can be corroborated via third-party sites or a source other than one person's bad experience.  Does that seem fair?  Can we move on now? -- Ryan • (talk) • 19:01, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, please. Le Grand Bleu (talk) 23:35, 27 October 2014 (UTC)

PO Boxes in "Embassies" section
We normally leave out PO Boxes from addresses, including only the street address that would enable someone to physically find a place. Is there a consensus to make an exception for embassies, or should we remove all the PO Boxes as not helpful for physically locating these embassies? I would suggest excluding them from the "address" field and maybe from the entries, but if it's felt important to include them, they could be put in "content" as in "If you need to snail mail the embassy, include PO Box xxxx in your address". Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:57, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

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 * Mosque at Katara in Doha, Qatar.jpg

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 * Not a great photo and not super-interesting, IMO, so I don't care. Also not visible on the page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:38, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Doha


text:
Talk:Dokdo

copied from User talk:(WT-en) Jpatokal

 * In addition, I have a responsibility to myself and to the readers when it comes to accuracy. The Japanese have no record of recognizing the islands as theirs nor are there any record of the Japanese legitamitely fishing there before the 19th century. Whereas Korea has records dating to the beginning of the 6th. Also, the island was not "called" Takeshima before 1905. That is when they named it thus. And finally, the island was NOT off-limits to the public there was just more paper work involved. If you're going to make edits, then the focus should be on accuracy moreso than length. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Paula (talk • contribs)

 * The 1696 Murakami Document was about fishing rights around Dokdo and Ulleungdo, so yes, the Japanese have been fishing there for a long time. And the article simply states that the islands' name in Japanese is Takeshima right now, just like its name in Korean is Dokdo right now.  And according to the official history, the Koreans have also changed the name repeatedly (Usando, Seokdo, Dokseom, etc).

 * I've corrected the bit about the islands being off-limits.

 * Happy now? (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:06, 17 September 2008 (EDT)

 * No but give me a sec.

 * On the subject of the Murakami document, what you so conveniently fail to mention is, or maybe you just don't know, that exact document stated by a Japanese court no less that Ulleungdo and Dokdo was the property of Korea. So I reiterate, no legal claim. The original fishing dispute was focused over Ulleungdo even not Dokdo. The Tokugawa Shogunate were demanding the prohibition of Korean fishermen to Ulleungdo, but obviously they were unsuccessful in acquiring sovereignty.
 * At that time Takeshima was the name of what is now known as Ulleungdo. Then, Liancourt Rock was considered Matsushima. Your sentence implied that name had a longer history than it did. The name was changed only after the Japanese decided the island was theirs. That's why good grammar matters. And by the way, Koreans originally called the island 'Gajido' too.
 * Thanks for trying though:) —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Paula (talk • contribs)

 * You're writing squarely from a Korean POV. First, it is not at all clear that Usan-do is Dokdo.  Second, obviously there have been Japanese fishing around Dokdo for a very long time -- Ulleungdo is even further away from Japan than Dokdo, and if the Japanese were fishing around Ulleungdo in 1696, they were surely fishing Dokdo as well. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:43, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

 * You ignore written documents but accuse me of being biased? Please do some research instead of making conclusions based on assumptions. Show me one document stating Gajido, Matsushima, Liancourt Rocks or some other name of the island as being part of Japan before the 17th century. Then let's see who has a partial point of view. If you look at any neutral information on Dokdo, they will ALL agree that history is on Korea's side whichever way you look at it. Though Globalsecurity.com, an American site, completely forgoes any mention of the history behind Dokdo before the 17thC, they attest to the fact that Japan's renewed claims to Dokdo only surfaced once they discovered valuable fuel deposits around the island. Even Wikipedia, where the subject is presently being disputed does not challenge the fact that the island was recorded as part of Korean territory from ancient times. To boot, during the Murakami document period Japanese maps referred to Dokdo being Korea's.
 * Fact: Korea has documents with "Dokdo" as being part of Korea
 * Fact: Japan has documents with "Dokdo" as being part of Korea
 * Fact: Korea has no documents that include "Dokdo" into Japanese territory

 * WTF... this isn't Wikipedia with its endless nationalistic debating societies. Jani's text is fine and contains nothing that can reasonably be considered inaccurate.   Frankly if it was up to me we'd redirect this page to Antarctica and lock it forever. -- (WT-en) Colin 01:37, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

 * ...and we call the dispute between Korea and Japan, silly. I'm very glad you feel that "Jani" is it? has not written anything considered inaccurate, Colin. Do you think perhaps if others who were sympathetic to me too and knew about this article might, maybe feel differently? Consequently find that the original author of the article was just as reasonable? Trust me. Once it gets personal it can get dirty fast. It was not I who changed the whole article of the original text which was based on impartial sources. Nothing I wrote was a point of dispute even by the Japanese. That's why they are called facts. What was so provoking Colin? That I told "Jani" to check his facts before he contradicted someone who has? Remember there was no issue before "Jani" unilaterally rewrote the article when I was willing to compromise. I'm so glad we're all being so objective:).(WT-en) Paula 04:56, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

I'll quote Wikipedia:

''Korean claims are partly based on references to a Korean island called Usan-do (우산, 于山島/亐山島) in various historical records, geographies, maps, and encyclopedia such as Samguk Sagi, Annals of Joseon Dynasty, Dongguk Yeoji Seungnam, and Dongguk munhon bigo. According to the Korean view, these refer to today's Liancourt Rocks, while the Japanese views variously argue that they refer to either Juksoe (竹嶼; Korean Jukdo or Dae'soem), Kwanumdo (觀音島, 島項; Korean Seommok, G'aksae), Ulleungdo, or a non-existent island.''

So yes, the meaning of Usan-do is very much disputed, and no, you cannot convince me that they're not disputed. Wikivoyage doesn't have a neutral point of view, because the traveller comes first, and all the traveller needs to know is that Dokdo is under Korean rule and that the Japanese and Koreans are still squabbling about it. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:24, 21 September 2008 (EDT)

 * Sorry, what part of your latest comment had something new?

I know you've been getting your information from Wikipedia. It's pretty obvious since you've been referring to them this whole time. Do you not realize that Dokdo on Wikipedia is being disputed as well? Did you not see that big yellow sign on the article's page? Have you maybe thought about going to other sources? Because I did.

 * "Wikivoyage doesn't have a neutral point of view." Is this a type-o Jani? or not? cuz I thought that's what we were fighting about...being neutral with the information. Isn't being fair and honest one of the goals of Wikivoyage? or am I wrong about this too?

 * And you will not convince me that I am being biased. I am telling you there are no references to any island that is believed to be Liancourt Rocks as being part of Japan in any documents before the 1600s and you have yet to prove otherwise.

 * Although there has been documents calling Liancourt Usan-do, I have never referred to Usan-do as being Liancourt Rocks because that naming is disputed. The historical documents refer to Liancourt Rocks as "part of Usanguk," the kingdom of Usan, which was Ulleungdo.

One more time. (This is really not that difficult.)

Some Koreans are convinced that the Rocks are Korean. Some Japanese are convinced that the Rocks are Japanese. Correct? Do you agree that yes, there are some Japanese who think the Rocks are Japanese?

Now, you think that the Japanese are "wrong", and have lots of historical arguments to say why. Well, guess what, those Japanese think that you are wrong, and have lots of historical arguments to say why.

So who is "more right"? Well, guess what, it doesn't matter to the traveler. All we need to do is state that the islands are under Korean control (fact), and that they're disputed (fact). End of story! You want to argue about 400-year-old documents, go do it on Wikipedia. (WT-en) Jpatokal 13:35, 28 September 2008 (EDT)

 * The current text has three paragraphs:

A political hot spot, this speck of an island has a complicated and contentious history ...

After World War II, the San Francisco Peace Treaty ...

For a while now there has been a heated debate between Korea and Japan, with both staking claim to the island. ...

Apparently for you, it's a downright struggle.

See, that's the difference with you and me. I don't assume anyone's right or wrong. I don't invent things and say that they're fact. If you're done with your tantrum, maybe you can see clearly enough to be objective.

As a matter of fact, the Japanese do agree they have NO documents stating that whatever those islands near Usan-guk are or were belonged to the Japanese. Cuz if they didn't agree then they would have produced them, wouldn't they? Something you should look into.

Obviously you care about who's right very very much. And yet the laughable thing is you have showed me absolutely no evidence to back up your statements. Instead, you've just been belligerent and caustic. "A true testament to a man's who's drowning," eh?

Korean and Japanese fisherman have fished in nearby waters since time immemorial, and references to a Korean island that may or may not be Dokdo have been documented in historical records since the 6th century Oh yeah? show me where they say that.

It takes two to argue. So if you're gonna tell someone to take a flying leap, then...after you my dear.(WT-en) Paula 04:28, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

 * It is fine as is, though as I see it, you could replace those three paragraphs with "Korea has controlled the islands since the end of World War II, but Japan still asserts a claim". That's all we need in a travel guide. (WT-en) Pashley 00:57, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

 * Paula, my friend, you keep trying to make this personal. It's not: I don't know you, I'm not Korean, I'm not Japanese, I don't really give a shit.  I just want travelers reading the guide to understand why Japanese and Koreans have different views of the issue.

 * Now, please answer my previous question: Some Koreans are convinced that the Rocks are Korean. Some Japanese are convinced that the Rocks are Japanese.  Correct?  Do you agree that yes, there are some Japanese who think the Rocks are Japanese? (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:56, 10 October 2008 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Dokdo


text:
Talk:Dolores (Colorado)

Hmm?
Why doees this place not have a template? Kee psmiling, (WT-en) ee talk 20:01, 13 November 2008 (EST).
 * i tried to add it but i failed sorry lol --(WT-en) Hayfield 20:09, 13 November 2008 (EST)
 * It's not that hard. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee  talk 20:11, 13 November 2008 (EST).

title: Talk:Dolores (Colorado)


text:
Talk:Dominica

For future reference the Project:CIA World Factbook 2002 import can be found at Talk:Dominica/CIA World Factbook 2002 import.

wildlife
What are some of the animals on Dominica? Birds? 75.100.106.110 15:15, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
 * this is not the best website to research this type of information. w:Geography of Dominica would be a better starting point. Ibaman (talk) 15:27, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dominica


text:
Talk:Dominican Republic

For future reference the Project:CIA World Factbook 2002 import can be found at Talk:Dominican Republic/CIA World Factbook 2002 import

Content moved to Boano:

 * Um, is this content for the Dominican Republic article, or just a topic of conversation? I'm not sure where Bonao is. (WT-en) Majnoona

 * The above is copied from Travellerspoint. Unless the author is the same, this probably needs to go away...(WT-en) Majnoona

 * Poster has said via email that he holds the copyright. Moving to Boano.

 * Is it Boano or Bonao? -(WT-en) phma

 * Oops, Bonao is right...(WT-en) Majnoona

The people go crazy in Bonao!
They Dance and Drink in the Streets for 1 month CARNAVAL BONAO!!!--The month of February is an especially festive time in the Dominican Republic—it's Carnaval time!—with music and dance celebrations throughout the month. Starting on the last Sunday of January and increasing in frequency and intensity as the 27th approaches, Carnaval is not only a pre-Lenten festival here, it's also a celebration of Dominican independence. The country’s most vibrant celebrations can be found in Bonao and La Vega. And at the end of August/early September, we celebrate the Merengue Festival across the island. There are also nationwide celebrations of Corpus Christi and Semana Santa (Easter Week), not to mention that each of the cities and towns has its own patron saint, who is honored with lively fiestas patronales. All of these fiestas incorporate song and dance along with other traditional rituals. And music and dance are as important to Dominicans as eating or breathing. There's always something to celebrate here in the Dominican Republic!

 * If that is the case it would be nice if you could write something about these festivities in this article and (more detailed) in Bonao and La Vega. (WT-en) DhDh 11:23, 25 Jan 2004 (EST)

heyyyy your sexyyy and i wannna date you <#3 mwa

Great hiking in Bonao
Great hiking in Bonao I just came back from a great hike took 4 hours,to the Taino cave. The Taino Indians were the original inhabitants of the Dominican Republic. If you like outdoor adventures this is the best. Take a look at the photos. http://www.worldisround.com/articles/27930/

Great Trekking in the Dominican Republic
Trekking to the Village of the Dam! A wise sage once remarked that it was better to travel than to arrive. This thought held me as I set off on a trek to a trio of man-made dams around Rio Blanco, a mountain village near Bonao,in the Dominican Republic for I had never felt the romance of dam-spotting. The road up to Rio Blanco was full of weird and wonderful distractions, just as well because the grueling two-hour hike made my legs feel like they’d been fed through a rolling machine. Precious little traffic allows me to appreciate the hummingbirds busy at work in the morning shade, and to enjoy the dazzling surroundings.

A conveyor belt of local characters drift past me in all manner of guises and thrift store clothes. A little blonde albino girl cutting guavas with a machete. A pair of wild-eyed identical twins with barely a tooth between them. A skinny gentleman whose dangling pipe and candy striped jacket give him the strange air of an extra from a British seaside movie. It’s all very exhilarating until I’m stopped by a woman with short curly hair and a steady neurotic stare. We exchange a few pleasantries then she starts to play with me. “I had a few problems with a boy once… I smashed him up with a stick….. do you think that’s bad?” “Well…. I don’t really know the reasons why you did it..” “So I could crush him up and drink him like fruit juice” Terrified I bound on trying not to look like I’m running, hoping for some sign of human life around the corner.

For much of the time though it is head down and grit out the steeply zigzagging trail. Around every scenic corner in the road a new waterfall appears giving me refreshment and willpower to plough on. I collapse ungracefully upon finally reaching the center of Blanco, ready to be swept away by the broom of a local housemaid.

In true Dominican style, community life in and around Blanco unfolds out on the street. This gives the strange passing foreigner a rare privilege of seeing and joining in the timeless pastimes of the campo, such as the drying of coffee and cacao out on the doorstep. The innate friendliness of the locals will soon shine through their initial surprise at seeing a stranger in this little visited area. It is enchanting to see little brown bodies splashing and laughing under roadside waterfalls. Or to receive a wave from beautifully preserved old man rocking away on the porch of his powder blue wooden shack. The pastel colors of the houses and the vibrant wildflowers perfectly compliment the deep green backdrop. Indeed the landscape appears largely unaffected by the introduction of the dams fifteen years ago. An old timer, Heladio, accompanies me for the final stretch, and explains that before construction began, the road to from here to Bonao was a mere mule trail. A 77 year old farmer, he recalls how the French owned dams have brought more commerce to the region, as well as creating jobs for the local people. The three dams turn out to be strikingly different in character. Of course it is impressive how such an ambitious project was undertaken in an area of such awkward accessibility. But what surprised me more was the physical beauty of the reservoirs. Standing atop Presa Arroyón and gazing into the emerald waters of the flooded valley, I felt that the view rivaled any of Mother Nature’s work in the Dominican Republic. To arrive here, though jaded and delirious after hours of strenuous walking, was just as rewarding as the journey. I walked back with Heladio and told him how happy and surprised I was to find the dams to be so picturesque. Whether he thought I was crazy or not, his knowing smile put me at peace. In front of us a small boy was trying with difficulty to shepherd a pair of piglets. A scene of delightful rural serenity. “My great grandson”, murmured Heladio, beaming at the boy. It could easily have been him, seventy years previously, or a moment from countless generations before that. I hitched a ride with a choking truck back to Bonao, although it might as well have been a time machine taking me back into the twenty first century.

WHY FREEZE your BUTT OFF THIS WINTER.
WHY FREEZE your BUTT OFF THIS WINTER. Better check this out before the world finds out! Most people think that Dominican Republic is for the rich and famous. Well there wrong I found a hostel in the mountains of Bonao. The town is nice, the rooms are clean, and WHY FREEZE my BUTT OFF THIS WINTER. Hiking, biking, horseback riding, and exploring for caves. The only problem is they don't have many guest yet. I’m planning on going back this winter, I hope this post brings more people to go trekking, and biking with. And what is best I can afford it. Check www.ranchowendy.com www.adventures-tours.com

 * I take it the anonymous contributor doesn't ski. -- (WT-en) Mark 12:29, 24 May 2004 (EDT)

Stuff moved from main page
Here you go, this seemed a little too much of a narrative, so I'm cutting most of it out. Perhaps someone wants to mine it for useful info: --- Beware of the departure tax, it depends on the duration of your stay, read the doll coupon given to you at the arriving. Taxi from Airport to Santo Domingo (Ciudad Colonial): it is about $25/30 (maximum), but if you have time to discuss the prices, you can get it for $12-13 (maybe less). At the airport, you can change your $ and € in Dominican Pesos. But beware! You can not exchange back local money to $ and €, so do it before.

We were charged $10 for a tourist card on arrival into Punta Cana. The card was immediately confiscated by the immigration officials which I thought was strange. We did not have to pay a departure tax, although we did have to fill out another immigration form.

We were in DR in February 06, and WERE able to change back our Dominican pesos to $.

IF you go to the mountains and Jarabacoa, and venture to Salto de Jimenoa Numero Uno (a stunning 60 meter waterfall), be warned that the "through the forest" route, up from Numero Dos, is treacherous and dangerous. We made it, obviously, but it was a risky way to go, and accomplished only with the penalty of bangs and bruises. Considering the huge unprotected chasms alongside the narrow, slippery trail, it could have been MUCH worse!

Don't know how to add this entry under "sleep," but we traveled to the tiny fishing village of Las Galeras, on the Samana peninsula. Beautiful beaches (take a boat down at the beach to Playa Rincon, ten minutes away: isolated and gorgeous!)with a couple restaurants and several small, fairly inexpensive places to stay. We had a spacious "apartment" at La Isleta, and bought fish to cook from a fisherman. Our digs could work for a family or two couples, though the one double bed is up in a loft, with steep stairs.

By the way, get to Playa Rincon this year, if you can. There are already plans for an enormous resort at this stunning location.

Gua guas are the way to go. BE SURE the driver from Samana isn't actually a taxi and charging you taxi rates.

By the way, Victoria Marine (Kim Bedell is the marine biologist who started the Domincan whale-watching)is by far the fairest, most knowlegable way to see the humpback whales that breed and calve in Samana bay. Some of the others try for some not-so-honest arrangements.

The Dominicans are hospitable and warm, and we had a wonderful third world week, followed by the abrupt change to first world when we joined others at Club Med Punta Cana. (It's a perfect place for families with kids. Their circus was a complete surprize. Five of our gang tried the high trapeze, ages 7 to 44, and one of them is "hooked"!)

 * By all means plunge forward and improve the article. At the moment, what is there seems better than the nothing.  There is nothing wrong with a narrative on wikivoyage, per se.  --(WT-en) Inas 16:24, 15 December 2008 (EST)

car travel
This might be my lack of experience with developing countries speaking, but found the road conditions in DR quite bad in places. The article mentions this to an extend, but i believe that something should be added about the motorcycle drivers, who are everywhere and consider lights optional (happens with cars to a smaller extend), which makes them extremely difficult to spot after the dusk. Any thoughts? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Scharla (talk • contribs)

 * I don't think the Dominican Republic is much different from countries of similar development status, but a few sentences is probably appropriate - just don't go overboard or write in a way that the locals would find condescending as such edits tend to be reverted by future readers. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 00:29, 21 January 2011 (EST)

I wouldn't say it's very different, but i feel the ubiquitous badly driven motorcycles with no lights are more of an issue, both in cities and outwith, then the crossing pedestrians mentioned. Ive added this text : 'Lack of head/taillights on cars and especially motorcycles is also not unusual and with motorcycles this makes them extremely hard to spot.' --(WT-en) Scharla 02:21, 21 January 2011 (EST)

The get in section is a mess
Especially the "by plane" subsection. I guess half of those airports don't even have flights leaving Hispaniola. Hobbitschuster (talk) 03:11, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

this reversion
One word: Why? Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:33, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Likely because the stuff that was reverted was added by the Telstra editor: Special:Contributions/CannonFodder684 ϒpsilon (talk) 17:38, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Ah. Okay. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:51, 16 July 2017 (UTC)

I think it can be relevant when a road opened
So it appears that Ground Zero removed a "opened in 2008" from the description of an "excellent toll road". While I agree that it is not necessarily important to know the history of every hinky-dink highway, it is likely that a road that was built in 2008 is ceteris paribus in better shape than one built in 1987. So I think this information may impart useful guidance for travelers who want to assess whether the toll is worth it or they need a 4WD or how fast they can expect to drive and so on and so forth. And writing "the road is relatively new" will some day become outdated. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:10, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * It is better to report on the condition of the road than to imply that it is in better condition. The remaining description tells us that it is "excellent", which is useful information for driver, unlike its date of completion. As an economist, I can tell you that ceteris is never paribus. A badly built road, such the roads one finds too often in the developing world, can deteriorate quickly. A lot can happen in a decade, especially where a hurricane can take out even a well-built road. Has anyone checked on the status today? Ground Zero (talk) 16:29, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Badly built roads in developing countries like Germany, you mean? Crumbling as we speak. My brother likes to complain (half-jokingly) about "lazy easterners" every time we drive past a construction site where they try to fix this mess. At any rate, this "excellent" may well be excised by the next copy-editor as "overly flowery, promotional language" or it may be said that "this doesn't tell us much" or something of the sort. The construction date less than a decade in the past is an objective fact. True, they may have been swept away by the Hurricane since, but even the Alkali-Silica-Reaction travesty that happened on East German roads had the good grace not to manifest until over a decade later (when all hope of suing the construction companies for damages was gone). Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:44, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I would oppose exicising "excellent", unless we know that the condition has changed, because it is qualitative, not flowery or promotional. If someone tries to remove it, let me know and I will take them on. Maybe it is my experience with roads and Canadian winters that leads me to still disagree that a road built in 2008 should be presumed to be of any quality, especially in an age and place of extreme weather events. I think that is a faulty implication that does no favour for the traveller. We should instead describe the quality of the road as excellent until we have information to the contrary. Ground Zero (talk) 16:53, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

Currency, time and spelling conventions
Below is a proposed infobox to let readers know which formatting conventions to use in Wikivoyage articles. Do you agree with these proposals? If you have direct knowledge of what is most commonly used in the country, please let us know. Ground Zero (talk) 13:57, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Moved to the top of this page. Ground Zero (talk) 04:51, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Too many cities listed
Currently there are 11 entries in Dominican_Republic, and as this isn't a bottom level region 7 2 applies and we should delete at least two of them. Which ones? --Ypsilon (talk) 21:34, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Since no-one has commented, I took a couple out based on the information available in our articles. Ground Zero (talk) 23:09, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dominican Republic


text:
Talk:Dongguan

Does anyone know if any of the hotels in Humen provides WIFI in its lobby areas at all?
 * Hi, Hyatt Regency Dongguan has wifi in its lobby (http://dongguan.regency.hyatt.com/hyatt/hotels/services/internet/index.jsp).
 * I'm not sure if this is close enough to Humen for you...

Crackdown on prostitution?
Multiple arrests reported in Dongguan. This bears watching and, if it is the start of a real crackdown rather than just a bit of theater, the article needs a warning for travellers. Pashley (talk) 19:55, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

 * Prostitution is illegal in China, is available pretty much available everywhere and police do launch crackdowns now and then.
 * Although Dongguan has a stronger reputation than most places in China, I think if you want to warn people then probable do so at the country level in China.
 * As with the recent contention over vice on WV/signpost, definitely be careful not provide advice about how to procure such services. Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:29, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

 * OK, maybe I didn't appreciate the gravity of the situation. http://www.asiasentinel.com/society/hong-kong-flee-from-china-sex-raid/
 * It seems 10% of the city is involved in the sex trade (between 500,000 and 800,000 people). The Baidu heat map of people escaping is very illuminating. Andrewssi2 (talk) 04:06, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Split?
Like some other prefecture-level cities, Dongguan includes a number of distinct towns with their own identities that to some extent function as separate destinations. I think it might make sense to follow the example of Jiangmen and make Dongguan into a region article covering a number of towns.

We already have a separate article for one of the towns, Houjie. The Dongguan article currently has clusters of POIs in Humen and Changping, so I think those two can fairly easily support city articles (a new Humen article would be at usable status; Changping would probably still be an outline). A "Central Dongguan" article could be started, similar to Central Jiangmen.

I'm not sure what to do with outlying attractions like Lianhua Mountain in Chang'an. If we turn Dongguan into a region as I'm proposing, should we split them out too, into barebones city articles? (Chang'an is big and distinctive enough to support its own city article, but currently it would be an outline with only one listing.) Or would it be better to leave attractions like Lianhua Mountain in the Dongguan region article until their towns are fleshed out with more POIs?

Pinging STW932 in case you have an opinion on any of this. —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:59, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

 * It's messy to divide only part of a region into bottom-level articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:56, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * +1. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 04:21, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Chongqing (municipality) shows how this can be done in a non-messy way, that is by listing POIs in the non-districtified areas under 'Other destinations'. I agree, however, that this is not exactly ideal. STW932 (talk) 04:59, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I see there are 5 "See" listings in outlying areas. Are there any places to stay, restaurants, stores, etc. in those areas? I don't think 5 listings is too bad, but if a "Dongguan/Outlying areas" article could be fleshed out a bit, it'd be good. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:18, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree it's not ideal (though neither is the current situation, with Houjie alone split out as a separate article). Chongqing (municipality) is a good example to look at, thanks.
 * After taking a closer look - two of the outlying "See" listings (Songshan Lake and the nearby Huawei campus) seem to be in Dalang, where we also have two hotels and a "Do", so that could more easily be its own city article. That would leave us with five "homeless" listings: Guangdong Memorial Hall in Dalingshan, Lianhua Mountain in Chang'an, Yinping Mountain in Xiegang, Guanyin Mountain in Zhangmutou, and Dongguan Basketball Center in Liaobu. Each of those towns could probably support its own city article in principle – they each have over 100,000 people and I imagine they all get plenty of business travellers – it's just that we don't have people with enough local knowledge to flesh out those articles. We could combine them in an "outlying areas" article, though that would be an odd-shaped, somewhat arbitrary, and possibly non-contiguous area. Or we could lump Changping in with the other outlying towns, giving us five bottom-level articles (central Dongguan, Houjie, Humen, Dalang, and outlying areas). I suspect in an ideal world each town would have its own article.
 * Another idea is to split out central Dongguan, Humen, Changping, and Dalang, list each outlying mountain as an "Other destination" in this article like in Chongqing (municipality), cover Guangdong Memorial Hall in the article for nearby Dalang, and lump Dongguan Basketball Center in with central Dongguan. That would account for all current listings. —Granger (talk · contribs) 09:09, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a solid plan to me. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:34, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The "outlying areas" as we currently define them are indeed a "an odd-shaped, somewhat arbitrary, and possibly non-contiguous area" even with Changping included, so I'm inclined to support the last option, but the proposed positioning of the Guangdong Memorial Hall and the Dongguan Basketball Center also seems somewhat arbitrary. Would future listings close to those two places also go under Dalang and Central Dongguan? I'm going to try to add a few more POIs to this article in the not-too-distant future. STW932 (talk) 14:02, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * My suggestion about the basketball center and memorial hall was mainly to avoid creating new city articles with only one listing each. Maybe it would be better to start new articles for Dalingshan and Liaobu too, especially if you think you'll have more POIs to add to them. Or we can keep those two listings here in the region article with the mountains, at least for the time being. Regardless, we can always create new city articles for other towns in the future when we have information to put in them. —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:39, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * To answer your specific question: I think if we put the memorial hall in the Dalang article, we would still have the option to split out a separate Dalingshan article sometime in the future if we get more POIs there or otherwise decide it makes sense, and likewise for Liaobu. —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:47, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * By any chance, are you able to make a rough map? (feel free to make a rough one using geojson.io or the Wikivoyage Districtifier) -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 08:56, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * There's a map in Chinese here (maybe not helpful if you can't read Chinese), or you can use the maps in the Wikipedia articles about each town to get an idea of where they are. In my mind the region article would follow the official administrative boundaries of Dongguan, and the city markers would go approximately in the central urban area of each town. —Granger (talk · contribs) 11:26, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * My zh-0 does not help, but using official boundaries will massively help when creating the map. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 20:24, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Here is a map that I created: STW932 (talk) 05:00, 16 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dongguan


text:
Talk:Donsol

Comments
New Changes (November 12, 2009):
 * added other things to do
 * organized sleep section, so it's actually legible and thus useful

Changes I've made (WT-en) Rubybox 23:10, 5 March 2007 (EST)
 * removed link to Giddy's Place since, as posted on their website, "Opening of Giddy's Place Indefinitely Postponed"
 * added link to whale shark interaction guidelinks from Ecotour Donsol site, as well as guide to Donsol Visitor's Center
 * added general info about whale sharks

Giddy's place
Hi Sertmann,

I was the one who did the recent changes in Donsol before you started revising it just a few hours after. I logged in now so that you can see me and we could chat.

I also own Giddy's Place. I have a few queries about your revision and a few thoughts.

- in the things to do page, it becomes a single paragraph with only a few descriptions of what can be done. As a native of Donsol, I would like to promote the activities in Donsol that can give the readers a more in depth understanding of activities. Donsol has been known for more than a decade only for the whalesharks. I am trying to change that as there are a lot of other activities there. - in the whaleshark interaction, a lot of operators are advertising their services when the interaction is done by the tourism office. You removed Giddy's place there when we are also booking the whaleshark as an added service to our guests. - we are also a dive operator, we got removed from the diving section while the others were maintained. Manta Bowl is not a dive operator but rather a dive site. You left it appearing like a dive operator.

The changes that you made may look better aesthetically but it actually provides less and more confusing information.

I am new here and I am slowly trying to edit the Donsol page to look better but I cannot change (dont want to) the things put by the other operators. It takes a while but the recent changes you made is more confusing to someone who knows Donsol. Moreso for one who reads the page to know Donsol.

The version previous to your changes may have a lot of Giddy's Place links but that is because we really have a lot of activities and tours that are provided only by Giddy's Place like ATV, Kayak in Ogod River, Shrimp Catching tour. We opened just this April 2009 and we are the only resort with a website, we have more comments in tripadvisor than the other resorts that have been there for more than 5 years. We are raising the bar for Donsol and am trying to provide whole year round tourism for a place that was just seasonal for years. I have invested heavily in my father's hometown in something that I will not even get back in 10 years unless I am successful in changing the tourism in Donsol to whole year round. The investment is more of a personal help to the town to have something world class in quality and service (I have the only hotel things we global travellers consider standard - cable TV, Wifi, credit card facilities, in room fridge, intercom, 24 hour security and reception, Spa services, year round operations, first and only pool good for diving lessons in donsol and in the surrounding 75km area, first restaurant and bar open late and the whole year, first to introduce new tours in such a long time, first tour operator and dive shop open whole year round in donsol, first with a website, etc...)

This is the reason I was concerned with the changes you made. It does not help promote donsol further and creates a bit of confusion and may cause your page to be less informative. I know that you do a lot of checking but I know Donsol and I know the details...

Can we revert back to the old version and could you allow me in the next few weeks to fix it aesthetically... one error is that there are two DO sections...

We value Wiki Travel and we think it is a good way to promote a destination but I hope you agree that unless you are familiar with the place, changes on the site should not be drastic.

Thanks and Happy Holidays. Raymond

 * Hey Raymond, Happy holidays to you too.

 * It's not so much that it looks better, rather than we have a pretty strict rule that one business only get's one listing. And since we are target of much spamming here, and spend a great deal of time cleaning it up, I don't think you'll find much support for changing this policy. If I made any mistakes with the other listings, please, by all means, clear them up. Manta Bowl seems it should be removed altogether.

 * Now regarding your hotel, adding yourself to every category simply will not fly, you need to pick one category and list yourself there, be it as a dive resort in do, or a hotel in sleep, but you are welcome to write what else you do in that listing. As a welcome change I did not find your listings particularly touty, but you might want to give our don't tout page a read anyway for some further advice, especially this section

 * Don't list the same place many times. Yes, a guesthouse may have a restaurant, a bar, an internet cafe and a dance show, but you need to pick one of "See", "Eat", "Drink", "Sleep" and "Contact" to slot it under. That said, exceptions can be made on a case-by-case basis if, for example, a hotel has a famous, separately named bar or restaurant that also draws significant numbers of non-resident customers. Also note that businesses should be listed in only one article for the town in which the business operates.

 * Welcome business owners is another useful page. If you want to provide information on all the other activities available in Donsol, by all means do that. One way of doing this could be to write up a (non listified) prose section in "Do", with the activities available - and then I wouldn't mind terribly much if you sneaked in a mention of your place in the end, something like;

 * Activities in Donsol has traditionally been limited to watching the whale sharks, but recently many other options have sprung up; like.... yada yada yada...., a good starting point is Giddy's place.

 * Hope that helps, otherwise use the Donsol talk page for questions, so other experienced users also get a chance chime in with advice on how to tackle this in the best way. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 10:27, 28 December 2009 (EST)

Hey Sertmann,

Thanks for the reply... I will try to see on how to do it but the activities in DO I will just put available only in Giddy's Place since it really is. I feel that the activity needs to be emphasized and cannot be put just on the Giddy's input. In DO we are emphasizing the activity with its description and not Giddy's. I'll do it as you suggested above (with yada yada).

My Restaurant is separately named Butanding Bar and Restaurant and my spa D'SPA Donsol....so I will put them separately...

How did you transfer our conversation to here? Cut and Paste?

Raymond

Hello, I am Rodel from Donsol. I just edit the name of Diveshop from Fun Dive Asia to Bicol Dive Center which I owned and operate now in Donsol, My office is just across the tourism office. I hope that this is ok to you. This will help everyone to know that the email address & Contacts, and name of my business is no longer Fun Dive Asia but Bicol Dive Center. Thank you & God bless.

Rodel Lita

title: Talk:Donsol


text:
Talk:Dordogne

These sleep listings were incorrectly placed here and need to be moved to their relevant city article.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:38, 25 February 2010 (EST)

 * Five rooms set in a stone house near Sarlat. WiFi access, swimming pool and regional cooking

 * American-run seasonal B&B 15 minutes from Sarlat, in a quiet hamlet but near castles, canoes, restaurants, markets. The five-room inn offers free broadband WiFi access, swimming pool, large rooms and luxe accommodations, and helpful hosts who speak English & French.

 * Lying on the left bank of the Dordogne overlooking the river, this Residence enjoys an exceptional location opposite the magnificent old village of Argentat.The 3 one-floor buildings with stone-coloured façades stand in the heart of a beautiful garden. All apartments have a view over the Dordogne. The architecture is broken up by tiered natural slate roofing, outside stairways, pergolas and wooden balustrades.

 *  Three bedroom 'propriété anciennete'located in the tiny hamlet of Le grand batard. The house comfortably sleeps six and is ideal for those wishing to get away from it all, being situated in the forest of Double.  The nearest village is Eygurande-et-Gardedeuil 3km away, the town of Montpon on the river Isle is a 7 km drive.The house has a large enclosed garden, BBQ terrace & sheltered patio dining area.

 * Hotel Dordogne Auberge de La Salvetat is a delightfully situated romantic 3* hotel and restaurant of charm and silence near Cadouin, Dordogne, in the heart of the Bessede forest. Ideally placed for exploring the Perigord Noir. Panoramic views, pretty bedroooms with cosy terraces and fine dining, gastronmic restaurant. Swimming pool, park and shady terrace email - contact@lasalvetat.com

title: Talk:Dordogne


text:
Talk:Dorothy

Dorothy
I noticed on recent changes that someone had tagged this "vfd", but it was not listed here. I'm listing it now, though it appears to me to be a legitimate destination we should keep. Can someone who knows the area please chime in? (WT-en) Pashley 12:29, 30 September 2008 (EDT)
 * DELETE  I marked it; I have actually been through this "town" which only has a name because of a Post Office, next to a railroad track. There is absolutely nothing of interest here (certainly no place to "sleep" which is a criteria). I believe someone added it to Wikivoyage as a joke of some kind. Read the SEE section of the article. (WT-en) gamweb 12:35, 30 September 2008 (EDT)

 * Delete. can't sleep there. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:01, 12 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Keep. Peter, I believe you misinterpret the "can't sleep there" disqualification; it is intended to address places where it's not possible, or at least legal, to sleep (lakes, day-use parks, etc.), rather than towns lacking hotels.  There was a big discussion of this about a year ago IIRC.  This tiny town is no less a "destination" in that regard than any number of places in, say, North Dakota that we've always accepted as appropriate for an article.  And gamweb, maybe there's nothing of interest to you, but the traveler whose Uncle Egbert lives there would still have reason to refer to Wikivoyage before going to visit. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 11:17, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't remember this discussion, but this seems to me not a valid article no matter which way you slice it. I've checked this town, and there are no sights, no hotels/motels—only three establishments of any kind (all eateries/bars). I see no utility in a travel article to such a place. Another example off the top of my head is Pritchet, CO. There is one restaurant and one little shop. Anyone driving through the town will see them immediately (same goes for Dorothy), and can simply walk in and look at the menu. At most, a town/census designated area this small deserves no more than a mention in the get out section of a near town. If the traveler really needs advice on which of the three eateries to go to, he could just ask Uncle Egbert or anyone on the street. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 12:29, 14 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I tend to agree that the "can you sleep there" metric is intended to help delineate between "destinations" and "attractions", not between "destinations that get an article" and "destinations that don't". On the other hand, "Sleep" is a required section in any destination article, highlighting its importance.  (WT-en) LtPowers 13:27, 16 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Keep If we really want to be a travel guide for the world, I think we should waiver the demand for sleeping as far as actual cities is concerned. Juuuuuust my two cents (WT-en) Sertmann 17:37, 31 October 2008 (EDT)

 * Is Uncle Egbert in any way related to Joe the Plumber? – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 04:09, 2 November 2008 (EST)
 * Neutral. However, if there are three places to eat/drink here, somebody has to propose where they belong (county level?) if this is not held to be a "destination". (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:55, 17 November 2008 (EST)
 * As I see it, we're not a restaurant review site, we're a destination guide site; if a restaurant is in a town/village not worth writing about, we might as well not write about it. If we're dealing with a sparsely populated region in, say, Tusheti, and there's one nice restaurant in a small village, we should point that out either on the region page, or on a nearby town big enough to write about. But this is frikkin New Jersey!

 * The "can you sleep there" rule is useful for delimiting what we will and will not write about, so we avoid using up time categorizing non-destinations like this one, and avoid cluttering our site with non-useful information. It's a waste of space to subdivide regions and link to non-towns like this. The rule is also a convenient way to dismiss out of hand pages like this, which are not useful, and were created by a certain page-creation-troll precisely to waste our time in discussions like these. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:57, 18 November 2008 (EST)

 * Redirect to the county and move any worthwhile info in the article there. (WT-en) Pashley 20:04, 27 November 2008 (EST)

 * I'm not sure there's consensus here yet, but if there is, it's most likely for a keep. One last call for opinions, then I'll move on it tomorrow. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 21:28, 15 December 2008 (EST)

 * Keep. I'm convinced by, and agree with (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill.  --(WT-en) Inas 22:38, 15 December 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Dorothy


text:
Talk:Dorset

There is a train line (south west trains) running from weymouth, through dorchester, bournemouth, southampton and all the way up to London waterloo. Please update train section. Not making sense.

Feel free to plunge forward and edit the guide! We need your help to make this guide a star! (WT-en) Majnoona 16:03, 10 Feb 2006 (EST)

Mapshape
Hi, the mapshape currently doesn't include Bournemouth and Poole. If you use the ceremonial county borders rather than those of the administrative county, that should be fine. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 23:25, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dorset


text:
Talk:Dortmund

Eat section
would be good if someone who knew the city checked the entries. On a quick look on google maps the addresses of some of the entries do not match. --Traveler100 (talk) 11:09, 1 May 2015 (UTC) Moved following from article due to lack of (cannot find in google or yahoo, or contradictory (name and address do not match) information from other internet sources. --Traveler100 (talk) 08:18, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

Sleep section
Appears to be from same unreliable source--Traveler100 (talk) 08:24, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

First city to pop up when one thinks about Ruhr?
It says in the first line of "understand" "The city pops up first when people think of the Ruhr valley, and that's no surprise." Now I may not be "people", but I (and there are a bunch of people who get Ruhr and NRW confused) tend to think of Mühlheim Ruhr (because of the name), Essen Duisburg or the likes before I think of Dortmund. Now if you say "Think of a soccer team that might sometimes on a good day challenge Bayern and has done so in the 1990s", yes, I would think of Dortmund. But the first city that comes to mind when people mention Ruhr? Nah. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:25, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Well im also not be "people" but I studied at Michigan State and Nijmegen University and the "most famous" city in the region is Dortmund. A lot of people in the Netherlands like FC Schalke but nobody known the city of Gelsenkirchen. After Cologne and Düsseldorf in the Rhine Region are Oberhausen and Dortmund the main shopping hotspots for Dutchies. Maybe this will succeed on the link with the football club but no one speaks of Essen, Duisburg and Mülheim.

DortmunderWestfront (talk) 15:11, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

 * People know that Duisburg, Essen and Mühlheim are in the Ruhr area. And Dusiburg for one has the biggest inland port in Europe. Essen is where the Krupp empire (the coal & steel thing in the Ruhr area) got started and Mühlheim has Ruhr right in the name, so everybody who knows the full name knows it's not just in NRW but in the Ruhr area.  Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:55, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Add a City Quarters section?
Is it possible to add a new City Quarters Section with a short information like for example in the Cologne Thread? DortmunderWestfront (talk) 15:00, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

 * Sure. In cases like this one where separate articles for each district won't be created, we usually organize such content into an "Orientation" subheading, under "Understand". (See Caldas da Rainha for an example.) -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:10, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dortmund


text:
Talk:Dothan

Reversion of previous information
Contrary to the notes placed in this article when my material was reverted, only the climate box and the attractions were copied from Wikipedia. I should know, as I wrote a fair chunk of the Wikipedia article on Dothan! However, most of the remaining information was NOT "copied" from Wikipedia; I composed it myself, using my own words, based on ten years spent living in that area as a kid, as well as some information on Wikipedia and other Dothan-related websites. If my inclusion of the attractions is incorrect according to Wikivoyage policy (and I would agree that they probably need some work!), please feel free to revert that portion if you feel you must. I mean no ill will here, but I think deleting everything I wrote was a just little "overboard". - (WT-en) Ecjmartin 00:59, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

 * My apologies then! I did a quick google check of the text, since enormous single contributions tend to be copyvios, and saw that it was coming from WP; on top of that I saw the citydata citation, and thus presumed the whole text to be suspect. Regarding content from WP, you can copy all text that is your own words (as opposed to others', or combinations thereof), since you hold the copyright.

 * As you are a relatively new contributor, it is reasonable that you would not have known to leave a note on the talk page stating that the WP content was your own, but in the future that is useful to prevent these mix-ups. My apologies especially for not leaving a note on your talk page—I see a lot of copyvios and am just getting sloppy with the follow up. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:58, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

 * No problem! I will have to rewrite or delete the various attractions, as I did not originally compose them and did not realize it was improper to import them here.  I can rewrite the ones I've personally been to; I'll simply delete the rest (with regrets, but rules are rules, and I understand why they're as they are!).  No problem about the rest; thanks for the information! - (WT-en) Ecjmartin 10:31, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Dothan


text:
Talk:Dougga

I was in Tunisia last week & wanted to go back to Dougga. We went last year but it was raining so I fancied seeing it int he dry. I was told by our Thomson's rep - sorry holiday adviser - that it was closed & she didn't know why. Has anyone any info on this? 79.123.21.10 08:40, 3 November 2009 (EST)Thanks - Sid - sid_swift@hotmail.com

title: Talk:Dougga


text:
Talk:Dovje-Mojstrana

mine me:

http://www.geocities.com/jmarkoos/triglav.htm

Don't copy words, but remember ideas are fair game -- (WT-en) Mark 04:43, 11 Sep 2004 (EDT)

 * Looks like keeping the travelogue off of the page is a loosing battle for now. I guess somebody who cares should try to grab all of the data off of it though.  Let's also see if we can contact the person who owns the photos and see if we can use them. -- (WT-en) Mark 07:46, 12 Sep 2004 (EDT)

title: Talk:Dovje-Mojstrana


text:
Talk:Downtown

Think this needs to move to Pittsburgh/Downtown... same with some of the other Pittsburgh links..

Contece has been moved to Pittsburg/Downtown where it belongs to. --(WT-en) Hansm 17:58, 2004 Apr 26 (EDT)

 * Uh thanks, but just FYI it's easier to move a page than to move the content to a new page and then delete the old one... but it all works out in the end ;-). (WT-en) Majnoona 20:54, 26 Apr 2004 (EDT)

 * >;-P I see. realy much easier and more reliable. Thanks for the hint, May. --(WT-en) Hansm 06:27, 2004 Apr 27 (EDT)

Downtown
A vfd for Chinatown was rejected some years back, I think correctly; see Talk:Chinatown.

Part of the discussion there included, from two then-regular contributors:
 * I can't believe Wikivoyage has a Downtown disambiguation. A little embarrassing...
 * I agree. The downtown article is definitely useless, and verging on plain silly.

I agree as well. this article is silly & useless; it should be deleted. Pashley (talk) 05:21, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

 * Delete - per Pashley as well as it's quite embarrassing. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 06:12, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

 * Delete. Attempting to disambiguate "Downtown" is insane! -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:58, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

 * Delete per IK. –LPfi (talk) 07:44, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

 * Delete - "Downtown" can refer to a gazillion different places. BTW Special:WhatLinksHere/Downtown reveals it has been vfd'd and deleted in October 2009 but somebody has recreated it. --Ypsilon (talk) 08:53, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

 * Chuckle. Looking at your link I find I voted delete in 2009. I'll do that again now. Pashley (talk) 09:12, 17 June 2021 (UTC)

 * Delete --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:16, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete. Far too many to comprehensively disambiguate. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 14:05, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete Even the smallest of towns like Franklin (Venango County) have "Downtowns". If it's only meant to list Wikivoyage article's with /Downtown then it's completely arbitrary. Either way, it's not useful. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 12:46, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I take it there is no appropriate redirect target for "downtown" or "uptown" for travel topic information? I'm not aware of one, but this website has many pages I don't know. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 18:35, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

 * Delete per nomination. Ground Zero (talk) 00:50, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Outcome: deleted. Pashley (talk) 00:10, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Downtown


text:
Talk:Downtown disney

Redirect?
I'd suggest a merge and redirect to Disney World for this article, per Project:What is an article?. -- (WT-en) Ryan 14:11, 13 November 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Downtown disney


text:
Talk:Drakensberg

This article either needs to become a region article or a national park. I'm not sure where it fits in the geo hierarchy for South Africa. Any clues? --(WT-en) Evan 07:51, 6 December 2006 (EST)

 * The Drakensberg range stretches some 1000km through Southern Africa, from the Eastern Cape through Lesotho (most of this country is mountain terain), central KwaZulu-Natal (where it has the second highest waterfall in the world), divides Mpumalanga in half creating the Escarpment and the Blyde River Canyon (3rd largest in the world) and reaches up into the southern parts of Limpopo. It is contains a number of national parks, but is not a national park itself. Making it a region will be difficult as climate, fauna and flora, culture etc changes dramatically as one moves from south to north through the range; it is also located in two countries. Best would probably be to make sure that all the info in here is moved to the cities along the mountain range and then to remove this page. Guide books commonly do not try and address the whole range as one topic. -- (WT-en) NJR_ZA 15:06, 8 February 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Drakensberg


text:
Talk:Drammen

Outline article
Is this article still an outline article? --(WT-en) EivindJ 05:39, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

 * I would say usable, but quite far from guide, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 05:43, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

 * For sure not a guide, but I might just upgrade it to usable then? --(WT-en) EivindJ 05:52, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

 * Please do, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 06:17, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Drammen


text:
Talk:Dresden

Removed peculiar bit from Dresden
When in Germany make sure to try a specialty that is not regarded particularly as German at first sight. Today, doner kebab is typically served as a kind of sandwich in pita (flat bread). This type of doner kebab has been available in Istanbul since about 1960. The doner kebab with salad and sauce served in pita, which is predominant in Germany and the rest of the world, was invented in Berlin Kreuzberg in the early 1970s, because the original preparation was not appealing enough to the German taste. Therefore, as the "modern" kebab is very dissimilar to the traditional dish except by name, it can be argued that the kebab as most people know it is a "traditional" German dish. When in Dresden you can probably get the best kebabs at Babos and at Dürum Kebap Haus (Rothenburger Straße 41 or Prager-Straße 32). A typical dish including a large drink should be around €5-6.

''I do not think discussing the peculiarities and origins of doner kebab belongs here, but I left a good part of it to explain how kebab is a popular and inexpensive form of fast food that can be found in Dresden as well. I also created listings for the kebab joints mentioned, assuming in good faith they are indeed worth recommending.'' PrinceGloria (talk) 23:25, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

Splitting long lists
Policy states that we should consider splitting lists when they exceed 9.

We now have 16 establishments listed in our "Mid-range" hotels section. --W. Franke-mailtalk 23:22, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Alternative banner for this article?
In the Hebrew Wikivoyage we are currently using this banner instead of the one which is currently used here. Do you think too that this banner would would better than the existing one? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 02:24, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * They're both nice images, but the new one is clearer, so I'd tend to favor it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:10, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * What's with the "clear" thing, I am viewing this now on high-res Mac and the "clear" images come off as grainy to me. The "softer" ones look so much better. Besides, Dresden is in reality a beautiful city and the aerial view doesn't do it justice and is quite generic. The Bruhl's terrace is very uniquely Dresden, and I am all for more versatility in banners, so if we have a beautiful and truly representative night pic, I'd keep it. PrinceGloria (talk) 18:32, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * The image that the new one is cropped from is used in the article, at the bottom, so this would need to be changed as well. I slightly favour the existing banner, as it does clearly show important older buildings. AlasdairW (talk) 19:00, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * That's interesting, PrinceGloria. I'm now using a new Lenovo laptop. I would defer to your superior knowledge of Dresden. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:44, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I prefer the original. It is more interesting.• • • Peter (Southwood) (talk): 19:51, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
 * PRefer current banner Matroc (talk) 03:15, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
 * When I think of Dresden, the striking impression of the buildings lit in early evening from the river is the one that comes to mind. The current banner, in my view, reflect the city better. --Traveler100 (talk) 06:42, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

Stay safe /Pegida
According to this http://www.taz.de/Vorfall-bei-Pegida-Demo-/!152095/ (reputed newspaper albeit with a left wing slant, printed daily sold throughout Germany) as well as this report https://www.addn.me/nazis/interview-hetzjagd-auf-migranten-in-dresden/ (left wing Dresden "alternative" online news-source) as well as several eye-witnesses there is violence accompanying the PEGIDA-protests that happen every Monday. I will try to advise visitors about this in a fair way in the stay safe section. I don't want an edit war, but I think Pegida is relevant for travellers, especially those that look or sound "foreign" (this being the English WV, this is a given with >90% of readers) and not only because the trams may be hindered by the protests.Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:55, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I can't find evidence that these are still going on, so I have trimmed back that section. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also, the paragraph about twice-in-a-century flooding in the past doesn't seem necessary if measures to prevent it have been taken, unless I've mis-read this.Ground Zero (talk) 05:57, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Measures against flooding have been taken even before the 2013 flood. Which meant the flooding was less bad. For example, they reinforced the (artificial) bed of the river which used to flow where Hauptbahnhof now stands, thus keeping it from flooding. Major danger to humans who aren't criminally stupid never existed at any rate. Still if not in "stay safe" I think flooding should be mentioned somewhere. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:58, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

districts?
Dresden is a big draw for tourists (recent events notwithstanding) but most tourist attractions are actually within the rather small Altstadt (museums, old stuff, opera, theater etc.) and Neustadt (bars, restaurants, discos etc.) areas and there are few things outside of them (apart from the airport, nature, the "Dresdner Bergbahnen" and some other minor points of interest) as I fear that the most we could get out of this as of now are three districts (Altstadt, Neustadt and a big "donut") maybe it is a bit premature to districtify, but nonetheless, it might be a good idea to brainstorm a little regarding this topic. Any ideas? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:48, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * At half a million people or so, it's not a city I'd expect us to need a huge city template for, unless we are somehow still missing listings for dozens of visit-worthy museums and other attractions, which I don't think is the case. Texugo (talk) 16:23, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I considered districtification when I worked on this article sometime ago, but I believe for now we cover pretty much everything in a rather neat, easily digestible form. I do not think we need separate district guides, enough orientation regarding districts is given in the guide already. And yes, htis is a perfect example of a city the size just enough for a large, meaty single-article guide.
 * Many other articles on German cities could use quite a bit of work though - not necessarily districtification (well, Berlin does), but general improvement, many are outdated, incomplete and generally woeful. PrinceGloria (talk) 19:36, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

 * I trust your judgment. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:42, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Eat section
I have removed the following entries as they are suspiciously like fake listings on other pages. Although the names of restaurants and streets sound plausible the combination in Dresden do not. As the order of listings is different from other entries of the vandal it is a little more difficult to check this article. If you believe these are genuine please add back but with more detail. --Traveler100 (talk) 06:14, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

 * Afro-Hütte , Lausitzer 35, Phone +49 35126212, Deutsches Essen, €5-10/ person,
 * Anita , Mühlenstrasse 67, Phone +49 351 24493, Italian food, €10-15/ person,
 * Antica , Hohenzollerndamm 64, Phone [0]351 / 9652, Deutsches Essen, Less than €30, Open M-Sa 10:00-23:00,
 * Athen, Schönhauser 94, Phone +49 351 1635, Greek cuisine, more than €5 for a snack
 * Britzer , Fasanenstrasse 17, Phone +49 351 20680, Deutsches Essen, voted best deli in town Open M-Sa 19:00-23:59
 * Engelbrecht , Damaschkestraße 87, Phone +49 351 5211, Deutsches Essen, more than €5 for a snack.
 * Golden Tweenis, Alter Markt 85, Phone +49 351 27228, Deutsches Essen, more than €20
 * Havana, Alexanderplatz 109, Phone +49 351 20535, Serves international food, for €5-10/ person, Open M-Su 12:00-23:00
 * Maredo , Fasanenstrasse 17, Phone [0]351 / 7922, Serves international food, light fare for €10/person,
 * Merz , Kochstrasse 85, Phone [0]351 / 908, Deutsches Essen, light fare for €10-15/ person, Open Mon-Sun from 10AM - 12 AM,
 * Mona , Blissestrasse 25, Phone [0]351 / 6914, Deutsches Essen, Where the locals go. Open Mon-Sat from 10AM - 11 PM
 * Petit , Rheinstrasse 59, Phone [0]351 / 9010, French cuisine, More than €5 for a snack. Open Mon-Sun from 5PM - 11 PM

 * Adding three more to the list (and removing them from the main page): Xsobev (talk) 10:06, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

Getting this to guide status
So this is currently at "usable" but one of the main tourist destinations in East Germany. I don't think much is missing for guide status, but a few pointers as to what to do exactly would be nice. What do y'all think? Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:28, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

 * With the caveat that I have yet to visit Dresden, it already looks like a Guide to me. If it's not, an obvious step would be to put Geo coordinates on everything that doesn't yet have them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:18, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, geo coordinates would be useful. Otherwise, the article is complete. --Alexander (talk) 08:34, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I tend to use Google map to get coordinates, for other methods see Listings. Would be good to get this article to the next status. --Traveler100 (talk) 08:31, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

 * ✅ I believe that, at this point, the article is deserving. Ibaman (talk) 20:27, 7 August 2017 (UTC)

can you really buy tickets from vending machines on buses in Dresden?
"You can buy tickets at yellow ticket vending machines in trams or buses" I thought on buses you buy tickets from the driver Griffindd (talk) 09:30, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
 * That's what I thought, too. Maybe the original wording was "simplified" at some point in time by somebody who didn't check whether the resulting sentence kept making sense. Or somebody made a mistake. At any rate, you can buy tickets from bus drivers at machines and at machines inside trams. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:52, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Racism
Even if we do not mention the Nazi marches and Pegida, I think it bears mentioning that Dresden is more racist than other German half million cities. How do we do that in a tactful and not exaggerating but also not whitewashing way? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:59, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The article does mention Pegida. My edits only updated the reference to be a past event instead of an ongoing event since they do not seem to be continuing according to what I can find on the web. If you have other information, please revise as appropriate. Ground Zero (talk) 18:13, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

History of aviation in Dresden
With regard to my deletion of the following, and its restoration by User:Hobbitschuster, I think it is worth discussing whether this information is actually useful for travellers like, or is too much detail that gets in the way of the important information, and is boring to most readers. Here is the revision I made to the listing for the Dresden Airport:

 * Most flights to Dresden are charter flights to popular holiday destinations. There are also regular scheduled flights from Basel, Amsterdam Schiphol, Zurich, Moscow and St. Petersburg. Dresden Airport has direct flights — operated by Lufthansa and Eurowings — from major German airports, where you can connect from international or intercontinental flights. Many routes to Dresden have been cancelled and reestablished several times, mostly for economic reasons. There are several flights a day from Frankfurt airport, although a train may be faster if you take wait and transfer times into account. Dresden Airport has struggled since reunification and opening of the borders to Poland and the Czech Republic. A new highway means Dresden now also has to compete with Prague Airport, which has better international connections. The only international route that has had any staying power in the last few years is the one to Moscow. Routes to Milan and London have long since been abandoned. Germania has the most flights to Dresden. However, most of their routes are seasonal. For example flights from Keflavík International Airport (Reykjavik 's main international airport) started in summer 2017 and flights to Athens started in May 2018. Germania also started flying from Barcelona El Prat Airport in 2018 after a previous operator had given up the route it had operated for several years . The airport lists current destinations here.

I think my deletions help travellers find the important information -- who is flying where now -- without having to wade through a history lesson on aviation at Dresden Airport. Goals and non-goals says "Wikivoyage aims to tell people how to travel all over the world, not document everything on the planet or how it ended up that way." I think this is more appropriate for Wikipedia, but maybe it could be moved out of the listing and into a separate history section.

Hobbitschuster argues that "This discussion of history gives an important insight into the "staying power" of different routes and thus serves our readers)."

It would be useful to hear the views of other contributors on this. Comments? Ground Zero (talk) 18:13, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

 * From reading this comment alone, I would prefer to err on the side of brevity and the here and now. But I am interested to read the Hobbit's full argument. Why is the staying power of routes important? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:40, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

 * I think a full discussion of at least some routes - or at the very least the sentence that routes have been canceled in the past - would serve to inform our readers that Dresden airport "struggles" or to put it more bluntly, it is a joke of an airport that serves no conceivable need and if you book a flight from there, you'll always have to take into account that the airline might very well decide not flying there as the route is not booked by enough people. Maybe we could shorten the individual routes that have done the ridiculous "on-off dance" but we should certainly mention the general tendency. If I book a flight to/from Frankfurt Airport, I can be reasonably sure that the flight will still exist next year or at least the airline will still fly to FRA. With Dresden, I cannot even be sure of the airport still be open to anything but general aviation a few years from now... Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:20, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

How about:
 * Most flights to Dresden are charter flights to popular holiday destinations. There are also regular scheduled flights from Basel, Amsterdam Schiphol, Zurich, Moscow and St. Petersburg. Dresden Airport has direct flights — operated by Lufthansa and Eurowings — from major German airports, where you can connect from international or intercontinental flights. There are several flights a day from Frankfurt airport, although a train may be faster if you take wait and transfer times into account.Germania has the most flights to Dresden, but most of their routes are seasonal. International destinations include Reykjavik, Athens, and Barcelona. Because of competition from other airports, the international flights offered change frequently. Check the airport's list of current destinations.

And we add below that:
 * "Czech highway D8 and German autobahn A17 provide a quick route from Prague Airport (150 km away), which has better international connections.

Ground Zero (talk) 05:50, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

 * I think we should also ask and  what they think of this. Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:02, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

I don't really want to get drawn into a discussion about this, not least because I'm not familiar with WV policies and don't particularly want to get familiar with them. And usually my main efforts here have been to increase readability, rather than to add "useful information". "Boring" is a very subjective judgement. Me, I find an article containing only "useful information" quite boring. As a trained historian, I usually want to know how things came to be, otherwise I don't have the feeling I can understand what is going on now. When a context is supplied, I can also as a reader make more of my own conclusions rather than having rely only on the conclusions provided directly by the article. That Dresden airport's catchment area is weak economically and that other airports nearby are much bigger are things I would find interesting and useful to know as a traveller. But where or whether such information should be on WV is not a judgement I want to make. Griffindd (talk)

 * I don't have an opinion about this particular example, but in general, if you give very brief and nicely-written history, it's less likely that someone will delete it and more likely that someone would revert a deletion. But I think in the case of an airport that doesn't merit its own article, any historical information should be brief indeed, and if anyone wants to know more, there should be a link to the Wikipedia article about the airport in its listing template, so anyone could read such details there. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:04, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia does not contain the information which routes were canceled when and the pretty obvious judgment call that Dresden Airport is "struggling" and too close to more major airports for its own good would likely be considered "POV" and "original research" on WP. Here it is of obvious value to tell travelers, that DRS is a rather marginal airport and routes to and from it do not tend to have staying power (with the possible exception of the Russian routes due to Russians shopping in Dresden quite a bit). Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:31, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia does have some information on routes (see the discussion on City Link), and there is no reason it couldn't have more. Letting travellers know that our route information is subject to change is useful, but the history of airlines routes isn't needed to explain that. This isn't a history article that requires providing evidence to support conclusions, or references to support the evidence. It is a travel article about how to get around and what to see. I will quote our policy again, "Wikivoyage aims to tell people how to travel all over the world, not document everything on the planet or how it ended up that way." I see no particular reason for the Dresden article to deviate from Wikivoyage policy on this matter. Ground Zero (talk) 17:44, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

As this discussion has run out if steam, I implemented the proposal above, and re-added this discussion of the airport's struggle: "Many routes to Dresden have been cancelled and reestablished several times, mostly for economic reasons." I really don't think that that listing flights that travellers cannot take is helpful. Ground Zero (talk) 15:30, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Dresden Tram routes
Can we get the Tram Routes to show up on the dynamic map? Preferably in the right color? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:09, 24 January 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dresden


text:
Talk:Dress code

stub?
I added a marker--did I understand the idea correctly that much more content (and regional specifics?) will be added later? What is a vision for the future of this page? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:19, 31 July 2007 (EDT)
 * Yes, more info will be added. The idea is to describe what could be expected of a traveller and clothing in different situations, such as visits to churches of various kinds, restaurants, etc. In Paris, it's quite common to see foreign tourists entering (for example) a church in hawaii shorts and sandals... not good, since they often get thrown out. (WT-en) Riggwelter 09:28, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

 * I see. BTW, right now it looks more like general rules of conduct--not only dress-code rules. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 04:25, 3 October 2007 (EDT)

I don't think this article is necessary. Dress code rules vary from country to country, which is why it should be and is covered under Respect, and "advice" like "common sense should be used" is useless. (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:02, 3 October 2007 (EDT)
 * I agree. It only takes a quick mental comparison of dress codes in Japan, Brazil, and say Saudi Arabia, to see that very few generalizations can be made. These generalizations like "photography may or may not be prohibited" are not helpful at all. (WT-en) Texugo 06:53, 3 October 2007 (EDT)

Merge?
This article actually contains no advice at all on a dress code. I'd like to pull the little useful information that isn't hopelessly generalised into Respect, and redirect his article there. Any counter views? --(WT-en) inas 21:04, 28 July 2009 (EDT)

 * Agreed. General info (the useful bits, anyway) can be merged to Respect; country-specific dress code info belongs in country/region articles. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:52, 28 July 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Dress code


text:
Talk:Driving in Australia

Alternate banner for this article
I am proposing to change the banner to this one here. The current banner doesn't really show how outback roads can be, and in this case, this one is one of the very narrow roads, or at least that I've seen. (I'm not sure if WA or Western NT has smaller) This is more of a better representation of outback driving, and of course not the stereotype that all outback routes are small, tiny and need good skills. I'm not exactly certain, but the current banner looks more like a stock route than a normal outback road, and therefore I'm proposing to change the banner so it gives a more overall representation of actual outback driving. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:50, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I like the current kangaroo crossing sign. It screams "Australia!" to me. The article isn't about driving in the Outback, but in the entire country. Nelson Ricardo (talk) 14:16, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I support the alternate banner above the current banner, although the one with the kangaroo sign is another good option. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 14:32, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

"Toll roads are built to take advantage of urban commuters, and are generally not useful for international travellers who choose to go at a leisurely pace."
I disagree with this statement. Most people in my area only use toll roads when traveling and try and avoid using toll roads at other times, as most people use public transport in Sydney. Is this something commonly done in Melbourne or Brisbane? -- SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:39, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

 * I'll remove it within the next week if there's no objections, but who'd want to do a 30-minute detour around the Harbour Bridge just to cross the harbour? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:33, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Freeways into Adelaide CBD
Doesn't the North-South Motorway end just at the brink of North Adelaide in Hindmarsh? Sure, you do have to drive, but it falls into the same criteria as Hobart (which I just moved into the same category as Adelaide). However, I'm guessing the point of that sentence was that there are no freeways within the CBD? -- SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:16, 25 March 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Driving in Australia