text:
Talk:Burma Road

This was listed in Project:requests for articles, so I put something in. Can someone improve it? (WT-en) Pashley 03:45, 11 March 2007 (EDT)

Should this be an article?
The Burma Road goes up from Lashio to Kunming (the Ledo-Lashio section is known as the Ledo Road and was built separately by Gen. Stilwell). Even if we call the entire road the Burma Road, I'm not sure this warrants an article. Consider: 1. The road from Ledo to Lashio over the mountains is pretty much non-existent these days and is mostly out of bounds to foreign travelers anyway. 2. The Burmese part of the Burma road is short (Ruili border to Lashio) and can be traversed only one way (Ruili to Lashio) and only under escort. 3. Lashio is hardly up there as a destination in Myanmar. A mercantile town that is mostly avoided by tourists except the few who make it across from China. Not much of an itinerary, IMHO.--(WT-en) Wandering 11:47, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Yes, it doesn't sound very exiting. Maybe it can be redirected, but to what - Burma? (WT-en) WindHorse 11:50, 20 June 2007 (EDT)
 * That is a good question. The Burma Road, though associated with Burma, seems to be mostly in Yunan. Perhaps all we need is a box in the Myanmar page that describes the Burma Road and lists the towns en-route.--(WT-en) Wandering 11:57, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Wandering is right, it is not much of an itinerary. However, there was a request for it on the "requests for articles" page and someone might search for "Burma road", so we need something here, at least a redirect. Not sure where you'd redirect to, though.

 * Maybe we need a new category for historical things that are not particularly practical modern itineraries, like this and On the trail of Marco Polo. I wrote most of both articles and I think they'd be useful to some people planning a trip, but they are obviously not the same sort of thing as "X to Y overland" or "Three days in Z". (WT-en) Pashley 20:21, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Yeah, Pashley has a point, though we have to make sure that such articles don't slide too far into Wikipedia territory. That is to say, they must always be written from the prospective of a traveler, not a research student. However, I can see a niche for them. As for Burma Road, if the section in Burma cannot be easily accessed, then how about redirecting to Yunnan and adding info under 'Other destinations'. The difficulties of traveling along the the Burmese section of the road can be mentioned here also. What do you think? (WT-en) WindHorse 23:36, 20 June 2007 (EDT)

I changed my mind! The fact that the road is restricted for travel today should not stop wikivoyage from having the rudiments of an itinerary for the journey. Hopefully, someone who has been to Pangsau Pass can fill in more details about the pass and the lake of no return. I doubt if there is anyone around who has traveled from Pangsau to Myitkyina in the last 30-40 years.--(WT-en) Wandering 22:59, 21 September 2007 (EDT)

 * I also redirected Ledo Road to this Burma Road page.--(WT-en) Wandering 23:01, 21 September 2007 (EDT)

Flying Tigers
I may be mistaken, but were not the Flying Tigers (American Volunteer Airmen during WWII) not supplied via the Burma Road? If so, any suggestions on the what to say about it? I think there is something about them at one of the Museums in Kunming, and know of a location in the Dali region where there is remnants of air bases. Any help welcome, thanks. Mulstev (talk) 23:36, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

 * We do mention them at Pacific_War & Flying Tigers has quite a bit. Pashley (talk) 11:40, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

 * There are actually quite a few museums and other sites with exhibitions about the Flying Tigers. Perhaps it would be a good idea to create a separate article about them. STW932 (talk) 08:22, 21 August 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Burma Road


text:
Talk:Burnaby

Deletion
Hi, I deleted the review pasted below as I could not find any info on it, nor an address:
 * Seed Mexican Casa Located on Ranelagh Street, just off Hastings (Capital Hill, Burnaby Heights) offers the finest in Mexican Cuisine. Everything from taquitos to Chiles Rillenos. Great atmosphere with live band occasionaly.

Thanks. --(WT-en) MarinaK 15:08, 15 October 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.

comments
A few observations and points. I didn't mess with this stuff on the page but:
 * I feel its a really bad idea to provide specific transit information inside the wiki. Its too much work to keep it current and updated when bus routes change or fares increase. I would strongly recommend just sending people to the Translink website for current fare information.
 * Why are we eating up real estate with restaurants? That's what Yelp is for. People can find their own dining places and can search online reviews. I think there's more value in helping people see why they might visit Burnaby than listing the restaurants.
 * Air BnB regulations are changing rapidly and are handled by each city individually. This is one area where I think we can help by directing people to the current status of Air BnB bylaws. Eg, Vancouver is in the process of shutting them down, but Burnaby is not currently regulating them (at April 2018). This could drive people to stay in Burnaby instead of Vancouver.

TravelingVan (talk)TravelingVan

 * What you're suggesting is a thorough restructuring of Wikivoyage article templates and even our areas of coverage. That shouldn't be discussed on the talk page for one city article. I think Wikivoyage talk:Listings is probably the most relevant place to bring up these arguments, or you could try the Travellers' pub. But when you bring up Yelp, it's useful but unreliable, as Yelp has been proven to mess with stuff for profit. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:14, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Burnaby


text:
Talk:Bursa

Which region?
Didn't know which region to put Bursa in, so put the isIn as Turkey. If anyone knows about Turkey check out the city issue on the Turkey Talk page, maybe you can help! (WT-en) TSandell 19:35 3/3/06
 * Later: Bursa is breadcrumbed to Southern Marmara Region. 15/6/22

Kestel
I propose merging Kestel into Bursa. It's a large town, its own municipality part of Bursa Province but not Bursa city. But for all travel purposes it's just an industrial suburb with no POIs or amenities: the "castle" is little more than an uneven patio that stops your cafe table sitting aright. Grahamsands (talk) 07:50, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * When creating the article, I was thinking about providing a space to mention the countryside to the east of the town, and am somewhat emotionally attached to it because I was working on it right when I heard about the news of my one and only nephew's surprisingly healthy premature birth, but I guess you are right. Vidimian (talk) 08:26, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Tebrikler, I trust the shaky cafe table didn't precipitate matters. Redirected therefore, and POIs in the countryside east can be added to Bursa. İnegöl is a candidate for page creation. Grahamsands (talk) 08:32, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, no I was alone there, but the shaky chair I'm sitting on right now might have precipitated my premature death, after reading your glorious as always comment. Vidimian (talk) 08:46, 17 June 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bursa


text:
Talk:Burundi

For future reference the Project:CIA World Factbook 2002 import can be found at Talk:Burundi/CIA World Factbook 2002 import. -- (WT-en) Huttite 01:45, 2 Apr 2005 (EST)

Regions
I am not sure it needs needs any. We did though do a fairly micro regionalisation of neighbouring Rwanda --(WT-en) Burmesedays 06:53, 23 January 2010 (EST)

 * It's pretty tiny, but quite populous. It's the same size as Maryland, which has five regions (with further subdivisions), but with nearly twice the population. Of course, poorer areas of the world have less density with regards to travel articles, but I think Burundi could use 3-4 regions on the map, depending on what cultural geography suggests. Of course, that doesn't mean we need to create the actual region articles yet! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 11:22, 23 January 2010 (EST)

 * That brings up a point which should probably be discussed elsewhere. Do you not think we should create region articles as a matter of course when we do the regionalisation? I do. A map which meticulously shows regions that do not exist seems a bit odd. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 12:00, 23 January 2010 (EST)

 * Agree with Burmesedays, I think we don't just create maps, but that after making the map we should also get the regional division in place. The purpose of the map is to illustrate the travel regions. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 12:36, 23 January 2010 (EST)

 * I can easily divide it into 3 or 4 regions but I think it will be fairly arbitary. There is an insanely high number of provinces, no cultural geography that makes any sense for division and little in the way of ecological differences. Most of country is almost completely deforested and the environment wrecked due to over-population. I am concerned that this would be regionalisation just for the sake of it. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:32, 26 January 2010 (EST)

 * I don't think Burundi needs regions, certainly not at this stage when there's virtually no content anyway. We've got plenty of region articles covering much larger territories in size and population, eg. East Java is a region of 35 million people. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:25, 26 January 2010 (EST)

 * I have gone ahead and produced a map without regions for now. It will be quite straightforward to regionalise later if we need to. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:17, 27 January 2010 (EST)

Burundi Embassy in Belgium
The embassy now has a web site with some useful information.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:37, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Burundi soldiers.png

 * Not in the article, though I find the deletion argument weak and have pushed back on Commons, at least for now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:22, 15 April 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Burundi


text:
Talk:Busan

Airport
There is a move on Wikivoyage to move major airports to their own articles. Wikivoyage_talk:Airport_Expedition The consensus it that airports with over 100 flights daily qualify, which I believe Busan Gimhae does. (It has over 9 million passengers annually and expanding) I am still not completely sure, since Busan is obviously never going to approach the size of Incheon, or any other major world airport. I think it would shorten the main Busan article, making it easier to read. Does anyone have a view on this? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 11:55, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Drink
I didn't like the drinking section, since it looked like an ESL teachers pub crawl rather than an informative listing of places you would like to visit. It also makes a poor job of describing where to find these places. I have tidied up a bit, removing the listings of places that anyone has no hope of finding. It would be good for someone to list bars that are not targeting foreigners and are interesting to visit. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 13:45, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Budget Hotels
Many of the listings in the budget accommodation section are basically classified advertizements. How can we clean up? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:52, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

 * Please delete any listings that look like obvious self-listings by hotels, or detout them so that they are regular, accurate listings. You have a lot of knowledge about the city, so just plunge forward as you think best.

 * As for your other point, discussions in "talk" pages are never deleted except in cases of vandalism, though they can be archived.

 * Thanks a lot for all the great work you're doing!Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:56, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Map of Busan
I have started to create a map of Busan, and humbly added to the main page as a starting point. Please provide any feedback, although I will continue to revise this since I am new to open source mapping tools and there will be a lot of improvement! --Andrewssi2 (talk) 16:07, 25 May 2013 (UTC)

Banner
I'm not really liking the new banner:

I feel the older one showed Busan better: (Even though I hacked it together)

Any thoughts? Perhaps someone has a better image to use? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 14:46, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

 * I don't feel strongly about the one I put there, but am definitely against montages of different photos in one banner. Jjtkk (talk) 07:58, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

 * I took a picture that shows both Haeundae beach and Gwangan bridge in one banner. I don't think it is really awesome, however the 'industrial' look of the previous banner might have been a turnoff for visitors. I'd be very happy to see other banners suggested, for example of a scene from Jaljachi market. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:27, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

 * They're both nice banners, but it depends what you want to emphasize. The previous banner made me think of Busan as an exciting modern port city. The current banner makes it look like an extensive big city with a modern skyline and tall hills in the background. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:33, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

 * I get what you mean. A problem with Korean cities it that they do have a tenancy to look the same, and I thought the port scene could have been actually in Ulsan, Incheon, Geoje or Pohang (and probably others). I liked the previous banner I had put up, because it shows a the dynamic port with the Busan 'iconic' architecture in the background, however that image wasn't allowed under the Banner pixel regulations. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:44, 13 October 2013 (UTC)

Split into districts
I would like to split Busan up into districts. This is because the article is getting quite long.

I propose:

 * Central + Gwangalli
 * Haeundae (East)
 * All other districts

Any comments? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 10:20, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

 * Three districts seems a bit little. It then seems better to just have two articles: Busan and Haeundae, and then clearly state at the top that Haeundae is covered in a separate article. This has already been done for Pattaya/Jomtien, and for The Hague/Scheveningen. Globe-trotter (talk) 12:37, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

 * Thanks, I will study those cities to get a better understanding how this will be done. I am looking to do this in the imminent future, however it will be a significant change so I'd like to get it right the first time! --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:15, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

 * Just a note to say that I'm still thinking about this and will take an action in the near future. The solution proposed by Globe-trotter seems the best one, since all other attractions in Busan are actually spread out and each area doesn't truly merit their own article. I'm still wondering if Songjeong Beach should be included in the Haeundae article since it is also in the eastern part of Busan. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 14:22, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Gwangalli
Although not as big as Haeundae, I think Gwangalli is worth its own section. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 14:00, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

District List
I need to prepare the maps before implementing the region list, so I thought I would use on the 'Talk' page first in order that any feedback can be provided. This is not the final version, and can be edited here until it is ready. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 10:31, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Thinking about this some more, I think additional articles for 'Central Busan' and a 'Northern Busan' article would work. Also the town of 'Gimhae' should actually be a region of 'Western Busan'

 * Looks good to me. I would say to go ahead and put this in the article now to replace/rewrite what is there, since it currently doesn't link to Central Busan (which should be moved to Busan/Central), etc. Texugo (talk) 12:27, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

 * Thanks Texugo. I was hoping to create a corresponding map first, however I'm currently in China and WikiMedia doesn't really work from here. I'll start using this right now anyway. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 12:31, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * By the way. I moved the movetodistrict template down to the appropriate sections, and at the top I put the districts discussion template we use to call attention to such cases, which also adds the page to Category:Articles with districts discussion to call more attention to the discussion. Texugo (talk) 13:21, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

Old districts section (for reference only)
Busan is divided into 16 districts (구 gu). The main ones of tourist interest are:

 * Busanjin-gu (부산진구)is a central district, and contains the area of Seomyeon which has an active night life with lots of street food.
 * Dongnae-gu (동래구) in the north is famous for the Heosimcheong spa, reputed to be Asia's largest.
 * Gangseo-gu (강서구) is in the west, and contains Busan's airport (Gimhae) as well as the Eulsukdo bird sanctuary.
 * Geumjeong-gu (금정구) is a sparsely populated district in the north, home to the Beomeosa temple.
 * Haeundae-gu (해운대구) in the east is an affluent, beach front community that attracts tens of thousands of Korean tourists and foreigners to what many consider to be Korea's best beach. It has been subject to considerable commercial development. This area is also the location where most westerners like to live and many of Busan's tourist attractions are located.
 * Sasang-gu (사상구) in central Busan is the location of the Seobu intercity bus station.
 * Seo-gu (서구) in central Busan and has Songdo beach
 * Suyeong-gu (수영구) is a central district is the location of Gwangalli Beach and the impressive Gwangan Bridge.

Improving head article
I'm a bit tired after all that editing :) Thanks to everyone's help we now have 5 articles for each area of Busan. The are not complete, however it is now easier to add content to the city as a whole. Thinking about the main article, what steps need to be taken in order to achieve 'Guide' status in WikiVoyage? If the format was similar to Shanghai would that be considered sufficient? Andrewssi2 (talk) 10:44, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Missing gus and other change
Yeongdo-gu and Yeonje-gu is totally missing. Taejongdae is even placed under the 'west', so I think; -Max980301 (talk) 06:06, 4 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeongdo-gu under the central district
 * Nam-gu under the Suyeong district(because it's far from nampo or seomyeon. Also its university area is close to suyeong)
 * Yeonje-gu under the North district, although it is mostly residential area with courts and city hall.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:02, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Busan station.JPG

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:28, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Busan station.JPG

 * Freedom of Panorama issue. Do we want the photo? It's not beautiful, so I don't care. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:52, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Agree. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:03, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Busan/West
As a citizen of Gimhae, Gimhae is not popular for its chicken restaurant. It seems to be an advertising. And, West Busan(Sasang District) is enough famous for its variety of foods to eat, including Dwaeji Gukbap, a pork soup with rice. It should be edited. 起司狗 (talk) 08:09, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Busan


text:
Talk:Busch Gardens Williamsburg

Name
According to the official website, the name should be Busch Gardens Williamsburg.

Editing
I am editing this to remove historical info that really doesn't belong in a travel guide, and to clean up the formatting - work in progress. Ground Zero (talk) 22:57, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Busch Gardens Williamsburg


text:
Talk:Business to Business Travel

Should this be merged into the Finding accommodation article?

 * I'd ask whether it should even be kept. It looks like it was created as an excuse to link to someone's web site.  And since the title is really just a buzzwordy version of Business travel, I'd suggest deleting the (alleged) content and redirecting there (and removing the link from Finding accommodation). - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 09:06, 21 July 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Business to Business Travel


text:
Talk:Business travel

What exactly is the point of this article?

- To provide useful information for business travellers? - To provide info on travel-related careers for those interested in travel?

I don't mean to criticize past contributions, but right now the article could do a lot better on either front - if we can decide what it's topic really should be. (WT-en) SONORAMA 10:34, 21 September 2007 (EDT)
 * Quite clearly, the article tries to do both, which I don't see as a bad idea. Obviously, it is useful to someone considering a career that will involve much travel. It is also a place for hardened business travellers to share information. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 12:08, 21 September 2007 (EDT)

Clean up and restructure
There seems to be a good deal of cleanup needed here. I'm going to make a wild assumption and suggest that Astronauts are not going to be using this article to understand how to do their job better.

What I'm thinking is less 101 description of business travel ("you can use planes and trains!"), and more useful conduct about how to conduct business internationally (handshake conventions, business attire, etc). --Andrewssi2 (talk) 19:46, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Sound like a good idea. How about topics such as tips on Frequent flyer, hotel, car hire member schemes; packing tips (what and how); obtaining work visas; managing travel costs and travel expenses; medical preparations; connectivity (internet and phone); legal issue; security (personal and data)... --Traveler100 (talk) 20:32, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Yes definitely. Work visas may be problematic if only the situation changes in each country constantly, but the high level approach can be discussed. Linking through to other articles such as Frequent_flyer_programmes with some additional notes around business use could be useful.
 * I'd also like to get rid of the "High-travel jobs" and "Get around" sections because they are pretty much content for the sake of content rather than anything useful. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:28, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Is there any good reason for frequent flier programs to be spelled the British way? Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:59, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Nope, just personal preference of the original author I guess. You can move it to American with a redirect if you really want. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:06, 22 December 2016 (UTC)

Dangerous or not fun
From the article:

Business travellers are more likely to visit places like Lagos, Bogotá or Jakarta that the average Western tourist may find dangerous.

Previous wording:

Business travellers are more likely to visit places like Lagos, Bogotá or Jakarta where few tourists would go for fun.

Though it's in the "Stay safe" section. But is it accurate? I thought Bogotá had become a somewhat popular tourist destination before the pandemic, and is Jakarta dangerous as a whole? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:57, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * There is certainly a certain crowd (If the abbreviation "numtot" rings a bell) who practically worship at the altar of the mayor of Bogotá due to their (both the current one and her immediate predecessor) pro-cycling and pro-transit urban redesign policies and I could well imagine some of them going to Bogotá for the fun of checking out the Ciclovías same as one would do in Amsterdam... Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:39, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

 * How do you think we should reword this sentence? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:45, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to figure out what the ideal wording is, myself. I definitely give pause to the idea any of those three cities are actively unappealing tourism destinations (maybe Lagos) -- Bogota and Jakarta certainly get quite a bit of it. (Jakarta may get less than Bali, but Bali is a special case...) It could possibly do with being removed entirely, because it struck me reading it as based off an odd set of stereotypes about the developing world. The modifications I made were trying to point towards what I think the original writer was getting at, which is that if your experience in tourism is in very wealthy places, cities such as those might seem fairly jarring. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 23:07, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
 * How about this?

 * Business travellers may visit places that the average tourist could find dangerous.

 * No specific names to argue about and no Western-centeredness. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:06, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
 * That sounds reasonable. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 04:37, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Dangerous is not always the reason, the city could also be boring by having little to see and do compared to a place which is all about tourism. Ypsilon (talk) 05:42, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm aware of that, but a place being boring is not relevant in the "Stay safe" section, which is where the sentence in question is. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:12, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
 * There it is,I could swear a similar sentence was in the lead section a few months ago but looking at the article history it seems to have been in Stay safe all the time. Perhaps we don't need to name specific cities (or countries). Ypsilon (talk) 15:30, 26 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I've made the change. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:15, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Business travel


text:
Talk:Public transit in Israel

changed the 160-167 lines
The buss lines 160-167 are now listed as starting at the jerusalem CBS, which is where they now run from. I also put in a note saying that some bus lines are armored —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Zach in Israel (talk • contribs) 11:05, 27 August 2006 UTC

This article needs work
Just like our general coverage of bus travel is anything but satisfactory, this article needs serious work. It does not really know what it wants to be, it has strange sections like "notes" that consist of one half "stay safe" information (sadly needed given geopolitical circumstances in recent ever [sic!]) and a part that is explicitly said in comments to simply have been dumped from the Tel Aviv article. What should we do? Nuke it and start afresh? Get input from hebvoy? (I guess even if there isn't any article dedicated to that topic specifically, there are people knowledgeable enough or the information is present in other articles). But seriously, this article right now is a piece of work.... Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:11, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I think that was the rationale of the mass delete of route information just now. Yes, this needs work, but we need some subject matter experts for this (i.e. anyone who has used a bus in Israel. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 01:15, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Well give me the "research budget" needed and I'll gladly volunteer,... Joking aside, one of the most important questions would be: Are routes (and/or their numbers) reasonably stable over time? If so, we can have a list of them here and update it. If not, we should link to a good primary source (or several) if such a thing exists. I personally tend towards the latter. Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:18, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * For a start, see my comments below Ar2332 (talk) 08:22, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

The international section needs work
It appears that part of it is written as a first hand account of a single ride in one direction Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:57, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Delete list of routes?
I am considering deleting the list of routes. It was always very incomplete, now it is somewhat outdated, and all of the information is now available in much more accessible form on websites and smartphone apps. Thoughts? Ar2332 (talk) 08:20, 13 May 2016 (UTC)
 * In that case, yes, I agree. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:25, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

"Lump Sum"? Seriously?
This is not the right term for ערך צבור. I'd call it "wallet" or "pay as you go" as it is named in every other place which implements a similar system. —The preceding comment was added by 217.132.107.105 (talk • contribs) 21:30, 12 December 2016 UTC
 * I think you're right. It's been changed. Ar2332 (talk) 21:41, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Country codes
First of all thanks y'all for the good work in making this article less of a piece of work and more useful and usable.

However, the current phone number format is not the way it should be, namely the country codes are missing (turn on "error highlighter" in the "gadgets" tab of your user preferences to see what I mean). Can we please fix this? Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:14, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

What's up with this large scale removal of text?
I cannot quite assess what the IP who did this is/was trying to achieve and whether they were right to do this, but can someone who knows more about Bus Travel in Israel shed some light on this? Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:00, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Speaking as a local bus rider, I would say:
 * Most of the changes here are good, so the changeset should not simply be reverted.
 * The measef/express/yashir classification is less relevant nowadays, since it does not appear in any electronic form, as far as I know. However, it may still appear in central bus stations. I think it should be restored, though possibly made more concise.
 * I think "Bus lines are designated by a 1- to 3-digit number. Urban and suburban lines usually have 1 or 2 digits, while intercity lines normally have 3 digits. There are exceptions, like intercity lines with 2 digits (those might have a preceding 0 to make it 3 digits), or suburban lines with 3 digits (the first digit may be 1 or 2, but not higher)." should be restored, while "The last digit of intercity lines often suggests its category. The fastest routes usually have digit 0 or 5, while the digits 1 and 3 are associated with slow lines. Digits 2, 4, 6 and 9 are usually express lines." should be deleted since it is significantly less true than it used to be.
 * Ar2332 (talk) 07:05, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the input. It's always good to have local knowledge. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:22, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Trains
Given that trains also work with Rav-Kav and we have a similar article on OV-Chipkaart in the Netherlands and given that this article already mentions trains in passing every once in a while, should we change its title to public transit in Israel and add more trains content? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:53, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Sounds good Ar2332 (talk) 21:10, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Why is it "Public Transit in Israel", and not "Public transit in Israel" per Naming conventions? Public transit isn't a proper noun. Ground Zero (talk) 22:24, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * If you feel like moving it, go ahead. I for one consider it weird to upper case an adjective but not the noun it describes. Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:06, 28 October 2019 (UTC)
 * "Public" is capitalized because it is the first word of the article title. This is standard. Capitalizing a noun that follows the first word of a sentence is not done in English. Finding something "weird" isn't a good reason for making a style error and leaving it for someone else to clean up. Ground Zero (talk) 06:18, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
 * What exactly do you expect me to answer to that personal attack? As far as I know any speaker of the English language has the exact same zero authority to set or change its rules as any other and certainly anybody is entitled to find some or all of the ways English is written today weird. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:07, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
 * You're as entitled as anyone to find the rules of English weird, but you can also be expected, as a long-time contributor, to look past that and respect the rules and styles adopted by the Wikivoyage community. Choosing to "do your own thing" and ignore those rules and styles shows contempt for the Wikivoyage community. That is disruptive behaviour. My  comments relate to your behaviour in Wikivoyage, not to you as I don't know anything about you aside from how you behave here. Calling someone on how they interact with the community is entirely appropriate. Name-calling, such as you have done, is not. So stop playing the victim here and hiding behind spurious claims of "personal attacks". That doesn't wash. Ground Zero (talk) 13:15, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Come on now, Hobbitschuster, you know very well that we can't freelance matters of agreed-upon house style in one or two articles just because we personally feel like it. Sentence-style capitalization is a basic part of Wikivoyage house style. If it really bothers you so much, you need to start a discussion at Wikivoyage talk:Capitalization and watch everyone tell you it's a waste of time to argue about such small matters or to consider changing every article to title capitalization. I guess now you'll claim what I posted is a "personal attack", is that right? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:09, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Given that I used the all lowercase form above, I think it's fair to say I don't care that much about that particular thing. What I do care about is the attempt by Ground Zero to let me appear as a serial violator of policies who has a personal vendetta against him. I do not have a vendetta against anybody. But I do think it's harmful when people mess with stuff they don't understand as certain copy edits have unfortunately been... If "streamlining" a sentence makes it say something different, which, given the facts, is not true, maybe said "streamlining" was overall a Verschlimmbesserung. At any rate, I hope we can stop this bickering and move to adding more train information into this article. I'm sure Ground Zero is an expert on this, or at least curious enough to have looked at some online resources, why would he be such an active participant in this talk page discussion otherwise? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:41, 29 October 2019 (UTC)
 * No-one is expected to know all of our policies. Given our history, I decided to raise this on the talk page instead of just moving the article on case you had a valid reason for capitalizing it the way you did. It turns out it was a mistake on your part. Everyone makes mistakes, including you. When you or someone else points out my mistakes, I fix them. I never tell someone "If you feel like moving it, go ahead." That's lazy and disruptive.
 * I have never accused you of having a personal vendetta against me. You have accused me of having a personal vendetta against you.
 * I have never made personal attacks against you. You have made personal attacks against me.
 * You may think that Wikivoyage policies don't matter and you can ignore them, but the rest of the community wrote them, so we disagree with you. You refuse to accept the English-language (and Wikivoyage) way of formatting prices in Euros, and now capitalization. It is this behaviour that creates the need for others to track your edits to fix your errors. Don't make us do that.
 * Trying to get you to behave in line with community norms is not "bickering". It is about making Wikivoyage suck less. Ground Zero (talk) 22:09, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

Article update
I've went over and updated much of the information on fares and ticketing. Thoughts? --Arseny1992 (talk) 19:30, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Nice work. I've made some formatting corrections, and tried to simplify confusing sentences. If I've misunderstood what you've written, please correct me. Thanks. Ground Zero (talk) 20:49, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Regarding stored value credits, I've never heard of a system that is not currency-based, so I incorrectly assumed that the units were shekels. Sorry for that mistake, and thanks for fixing it. The article doesn't make this clear, and it should, so that readers don't make the same mistake I did. Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 22:18, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Using currency symbols when referring to stored value balance denominations and fare deductions that use this stored value, versus amounts to pay to charge it, is to be avoided, because stored value is actually not shekels as it has a different credit vs shekel value per each passenger profile per the profiles table that I added there, which should be clear enough. The same table is also posted in all the FAQs regarding stored value on all transit operators websites.
 * Even if some operators' ticket receipts and apps (even the official one) refer to it as shekels (where it says 999.9₪) - it isn't, and is a coding error, intentional or not. As for this specific pic album linked, the profile is National Insurance Beneficiary, which means this 999.90 of balance equal to ₪669.933. There is a recharge log on the second pic in the album: total paid is the leftmost column, while amount to receive is the central column. Reading bottom to top, this means the initial balance before these three charge operations, was 7.10 of the National Insurance Beneficiary profile. A first ₪300 load added 450 (457.10), then again (907.10), then only a ₪61.87 load was possible, that added 92.80, thus bringing the total value to 999.90 max while not causing fractions in it, ensuring transfers still be working.
 * Say you have standard profile (is default on any card including anonymous) loaded ₪30 and thus received 37.50 of balance assuming the initial balance was 0. You then go pay a fare on the bus using that balance, say 5.90. The result of that deduction will be 31.60, which means the ride costed you ₪4.72 when "translated" to money, because you already got the profile discount for the balance when you loaded it (and the above 999.90 case means a 5.90 fare equals to ₪3.953). There was never any Rav-Kav nor passenger profile where the charged balance that you receive would be equal to the money you paid for (no discount). --Arseny1992 (talk) 22:53, 3 November 2019 (UTC)

Arseny1992, I appreciate and applaud what you are trying to do with the article. When I wrote that I didn't understand that the stored value credits are not shekels, I meant that. I am a native English speaker. Many of our readers are not native English speakers, so it makes sense to explain things clearly. It's great that you understand it, but if you prefer to leave out an explanation of this, then other readers will, like me, not understand how the system works. That isn't a good way to write a guide. Ground Zero (talk) 04:41, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Just attempted doing so, hopefully it get clearer, together with all the other information of the section. --Arseny1992 (talk) 06:14, 4 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, the infobox and the added text make it clear. Thank you. Ground Zero (talk) 06:18, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Passes
So the sixty shekel "whole country pass" that Israel Railways offers is cheaper than one way fare to Eilat. Given that there's no rail line to Eilat, am I to understand that this "whole country pass" does not actually cover Eilat? What about week or month passes? Can a week "whole country pass" be used like Interrail taking buses and trains whenever one feels like it? This sounds like something a certain subset of travelers would be interested in... Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:39, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The link to the "entire country day pass" also has the coverage maps for that pass, and it does not include southern Negev and Eilat, which are included in a pass such as this one, although that overlap the Beer Sheva regions on both.
 * You are free to use zonal passes in any variant (day, week, month, 30 day, semester, annual) to ride any transit within the included zones, unlimited as long as the pass is valid, and that is stated so in the appropriate section.
 * There is no week whole country pass: weekly passes weren't included in the inter-regional reform and do not exist in inter-regional variants. Although a month variant of the "Entire country" pass do exist and cost ₪900.
 * Passes only exist for Standard and Senior citizen profiles only (with only a few exceptions for youth profile). Which mean students or national insurance beneficiaries have to use standard profile passes, or calculate the stored value fares which is often comes to be cheaper than the standard pass value. Although students also have semestrial and annual passes variants for all zonal passes that exist in a day pass variant. --Arseny1992 (talk) 23:19, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Just clarified it a bit more. --Arseny1992 (talk) 02:02, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Zoning maps
Given that the zone map links currently in the guide (references to zoning of periodic passes and, more importantly, the zoning of 90-min transfers), that I added as links to the text), lead to Google MyMaps, that may pose some licensing issues, even though the KMLs originate from MOT's GTFS server (as per the html comment tags), and thus a public domain government service, is there somebody with sufficient skills for to import these map zoning KML layers here as dynamic maps map data geoshapes? --Arseny1992 (talk) 07:57, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

FTT and guide
Given how nicely this article has come along, what's missing for guide status and being a featured travel topic? Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:07, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Content-wise the article does definitely cover all the aspects I can come to think of when coming to public transit. For FTT, I think some sections could use a few photos. Maybe also some 3rd level headings need to be elevated to 2nd level headings, and vice versa. --Ypsilon (talk) 17:49, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

Rollback of guide updates
mind please to explain your rollbacking please? --Arseny1992 (talk) 19:27, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
 * It must have been an accidental rollback. I didn't even know it had taken place at the time. Feel free to continue editing, as there's nothing wrong with your edit as far as I can see. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 19:33, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Copyedits to improve readability
Without having been to Israel, I have boldly edited this to try to make it easier to read. There were many sentences that were long and confusing, and sometimes there was excessive detail that interfered with conveying information. If I have got anything wrong, I hope that someone will correct it. Ground Zero (talk) 04:16, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

WV:BF and WV:TOUT
Given this recent edit, it arises questions about whether we should write like this, giving a particular app more favor in such manners? Personally, I find the Israel section of Moovit not as accurate as it should have been for an all-in-one app like this, in ways such as it can at times suggest weird roundabout transfers in planning and schedules up to the point that I heard some drivers at times joke around "wait for a line operated by Moovit company" (of course such a thing does not exist) when the line he's driving arrives at a stop on a time not designated in the app (but is on-time per official schedules), however the passenger still attempts to complain "but the app said that you should have been passing this stop 10 minutes in/ago!". Thoughts? --Arseny1992 (talk) 18:20, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Public transit in Israel


text:
Talk:Busuanga Island

Headline text
Beutiful island....

Why is this Busuanga Island rather than just Busuanga? (WT-en) Pashley 08:00, 26 May 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Busuanga Island


text:
Talk:Butterworth

Earliest bus from KL?
Could anyone recommend the earliest possible departure from KL-Puduraya for a safe connection with the 1420 International Train to Bangkok? The earliest I can find is at 0800 from Puduraya with KBES, and that will be tight. Is there nothing earlier (other than overnight journeys?)

Thanks (WT-en) Jamesbrownontheroad 11:09, 22 January 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Butterworth


text:
Talk:Buxton (Maine)

so far there is no sleep locations here whats the deal? --(WT-en) Hayfield 00:29, 9 November 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Buxton (Maine)


text:
Talk:Buying a car in Australia

What is a "roobar" and why should the car have spots? -(WT-en) phma 06:49, 30 Jan 2004 (EST)

Roobar is short for kangaroo bar, the Australian term for bull bar. About the spots I'm unsure, perhaps floodlights? Or maybe it's a form of camouflage ;-) -- DhDh.

Yeah, Spots means spotlights or headlight built into the bull bar. This seems to be a cut and paste job from the link mentioned in the article. The copyright should be checked I think. --(WT-en) Caffeine 10:27, 30 Jan 2004 (EST)

You are right about roobar and spots. You will appreciate these terms when you buy a car in Australia because noone will talk about "Bull bar" or "floodlights" ;) It's Ozzy-talk. Don't worry about the copyright- as I am the author from this article on our site, I have published it here (with slight modifications) under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 1.0 - --(WT-en) Patrick Awart 08:41, 2nd Feb 2004 (MET)

 * Bah, what weird part of Australia are you from? :-P --(WT-en) Caffeine 08:50, 3 Feb 2004 (EST)

 * Weird part? Everywhere in Australia is weird! Patrick's right: no-one speaks about bull bars Down Under. Actually, I came to know the thing by that name, and it'll always be a roobar to me :-)) (WT-en) DhDh 16:38, 3 Feb 2004 (EST)

 * I call it a bull bar (Yes, I'm Australian), but I'm happy with either name. I'm sure anybody (Well, Australian) would figure it out, even if you called it an Emu Bar :-P --(WT-en) Caffeine 07:09, 12 Feb 2004 (EST)
 * Of course it is called a bull bar in Australia. Roo bar is more a slang term (which tourists and UK tourism tv programs seem to love). My impression is that bull bar is the normal Australian term for a bull bar, and roo bar is sometimes used for the (uncommon) lightweight grill covers for small passenger vehicles. Do a google search... Bull bar is the normal and most common term that is used, and yes there are lots of cows and bulls in the outback. (WT-en) Melbased 18:30, 16 May 2008 (EDT)

Do you mean "make even money" (break even? neither gain nor lose?) or "even make money"? -(WT-en) phma 07:22, 2 Feb 2004 (EST)

 * Make money? I don't believe that. I bought a car in Australia twice and I never made money out of it. If you want to you need good commercial skills (both when buying and when selling) *and* lots of time (to look for exactly what you want when buying and to find the right buyer when you're selling). Well, I suppose some people do make money... (WT-en) DhDh 15:24, 3 Feb 2004 (EST)

 * Well we made money (not a lot but we did ...) with it allthough we did not really inted to do so ;) anyway: Yes, you can make money but I agree it is more luck than anything close to planning ;) *sogh* australia - I want to return *buhu* (WT-en) Patrick Awart 08:41, Feb 12th 2004 (MET)

 * Same here, mate, same here. I'm not an Aussie and Australia is not my home country, but sometimes I get these bouts of "home"sickness... (WT-en) DhDh 01:51, 12 Feb 2004 (EST)

Source
OK, so I understand the idea behind:

''These Rules (Buying a car in Oz) where taken from Brigitte & Patrick'sRTW Travel site. You can find a multiple choice test there to find out what works best for you: BUY OR RENT? And finally there are some examples how it really worked out for other people we met.''

But there are a couple of problems with it, which it why it has been removed (again). First, it may be the source of the orginal article, but once it is edited, added to, and otherwise changed by Wikivoyagers, then this statement is no longer true. Already there has been an edit or two to it, so it is not the same as the one from that site.

Second, the first person mention is another non-wiki goal (see Project:Manual of style for more info). Finally, there is something a little ad-ish about it and we don't really go in for "sponsored" articles. Of course, including links to things you've worked on or your home page from your user page is A-OK.

Hope this clarifies things without discouraging you from contributions! It's some good info to have. (WT-en) Majnoona 21:53, 11 Feb 2004 (EST)

 * Hi Maj! Did you recieve my email? Was there something wrong / unclear with it so that you did not answer it?

 * As well as I can see your points I guess that this is somewhat incorrect. I am not a picky-lawer or anything but an article of someone does not change copyright just because someone corrected a typo or inserted a word or removed a paragraph ;)

 * So - in a sense it discourages me but that is nothing you should have to worry about. To me it feels just like leaving "my" room and coming back and finding it in a mess (compared to what I had left it and not necessarily the objective state ;) I guess the line "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly" explains that quite well now! But was that there when I inserted the article? At least I cant recall - but then I might hva just aswell overlooked it.

 * I would simply have to think more carfully which articles I find suitable for the travelwiki and which ones not ;) This is why I made a first test, to find out! Take care!

(WT-en) Patrick Awart 17:18, Feb 20th 2004 (MET)

 * Also, many of these points would work well in most countries. --(WT-en) Caffeine 07:09, 12 Feb 2004 (EST)

Global cars
I did a knee-jerk rollback on the global cars notice, but I saw that Ryan had explicitly given a suggestion to put the notice on this page (see User talk:(WT-en) Global1). I'm not sure it meets the "primary source" criterion, but I'm going to let it sit for a while. --(WT-en) Evan 22:53, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

 * Several of the travel topics have basically become link farms, so this seemed like as good of a place as any to direct someone who has a site that could be of use to travelers but doesn't really fit well with what we would normally link to. I think if we're going to remove the Global1 link from this page then we'd need to remove most of the others as well. -- (WT-en) Ryan 22:57, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

 * Reviving a four year old discussion..... this is probably the biggest link farm anywhere on Wikivoyage. Can we just burn all those car hire company names followed by a url? We would not allow his in a regular article, so why do we in a travel topic?
 * There might be a case for retaining any specialist companies who offer something distinctly different from the hundreds of other options. Even then, it should be a proper listing with a phone number, address, description etc.
 * The list of company names with a url seems to be a fine example of what Wikivoyage says it will not allow --(WT-en) Burmesedays 00:52, 14 May 2010 (EDT)

 * The entire list seems very spammy. I think my comment above from 2006 pre-dates most of our current policies on external links, so please don't view it as a reason NOT to trim this down. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 01:34, 14 May 2010 (EDT)

 * I've used this article in the past as an excuse to get rid of car hire and campervan listings from other destination guides. I.e. there is no need to list them everywhere, just in one spot.  Reminds me of the attitude taken towards itineraries elsewhere, that is they are mostly crap, so lets keep them out of articles that may are otherwise good. Last time I checked, all of these were primary sources, and not consolidators.  Not to say some others haven't crept in.  Thats the reasoning, but don't expect me to take any more steps to defend them.   --(WT-en) inas 01:47, 14 May 2010 (EDT)

 * I'll put the few facts that are actually important into the Australia article, and then this can go. The advice on car buying is just obvious really. --(WT-en) inas 01:52, 14 May 2010 (EDT)

 * All good. Regardless of being primary sources though, a company name with a url and nothing else is not a valid listing anywhere on Wikivoyage. I am forever deleting bland lists of that nature. There does though seem to be an unwritten guideline that normal rules do not apply to travel tropics. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 05:07, 14 May 2010 (EDT)

This article is about to disappear
As a result of the discussions above, failing any strong defenders in the very near future this article will disappear. Content, where it exceeds the obvious, will find a home elsewhere. If you wish to speak in its defences, do so now. --(WT-en) inas 20:26, 25 May 2010 (EDT)

 * Merge the article, but into Driving in Australia instead of Australia. As far as I can imagine it's quite expensive, time-consuming and otherwise onerous to bring one's own car to Australia from anywhere else so almost everybody planning to drive in Australia would have to rent or buy the car first. (WT-en) Ypsilon 04:21, 23 December 2010 (EST)

 * Yeah - much of the article has gone already. Most of what remains would apply to buying a car anywhere on the planet for any purpose, except maybe the break even point for buying vs renting.  --(WT-en) inas 04:26, 23 December 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Buying a car in Australia


text:
Talk:Bwindi Impenetrable National Park

I want to go to this park just for the name. --(WT-en) Evan 10:09, 21 June 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Bwindi Impenetrable National Park


text:
Talk:Bygdøy

VFD Discussion

 * Delete. It is a neighborhood of Oslo, but doesn't fit the districts that are proposed. Also it is formatted particularly bad. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 08:51, 11 May 2010 (EDT)
 * Redirect to Oslo or some district thereof, if it's not needed in the hierarchy. (WT-en) LtPowers 09:33, 11 May 2010 (EDT)

Result: Redirected to Oslo. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 21:31, 30 May 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Bygdøy


text:
Talk:Bylanakuppe-coorg

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Comments
Can anybody provide more information about Bylanakuppe(Tibet Monastery)?

 * Well, I can't, but I can say this: Please read Project:What is an article?. Monasteries normally don't get their own articles here, but should be part of articles about the nearest village, town, whatever. All the best, (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 03:15, 27 March 2012 (EDT)

title: Talk:Bylanakuppe-coorg


text:
Talk:Byron (Minnesota)

this is brilliant.

title: Talk:Byron (Minnesota)


text:
Talk:Byron Bay

Transport in and out of byron bay
Premier Coaches are the main bus company in & out of Byron Bay. They come a few times a day. Both to Brisbane & Sydney. The drive takes 12hrs from Sydney & is mainly done with an overnight drive. Other options are the local Kirklands buses which go a few times a day through the Gold Coast to Brisbane. McCaffertys Buslines also run frequent services to Byron Bay.Trains services now go with a bus link to Casino where there are a few trains per day which come from Brisbane & end at Sydney. Oz Experience buses also connect with Byron Bay.There are a few small coaches which offer a cheaper ride to Sydney, when they still have places available. You can enquire about them normally in backpacker hostels or the many internet places.But by far the most cost effective & comfortable way to get in & out of Byron Bay is to fly to Ballina airport which has bus/taxi links to Byron Bay once he plain has arrived. They have at least 5 flights a day from Sydney & start from $88

Accom
My last edit, where I gave a link to the source of the content used on this page was removed.

--
 * You'll find a variety of places to stay, from budget to luxury, in and around Byron. Prices vary, based on location, facilities and fixtures. Off season rates can be half the price of peak season. The following information can be used as a rough guide to peak season rates:

--
 * Houses & Cottages : Absolute beachfront is usually the most expensive, with rates of about $3,500 up to $8,000+ per week. Houses & Cottages in other parts of Byron start at about $1,700 per week.
 * Apartments : One bedroom apartments in a resort styled complex (onsite management) start at about $2,100 per week. One bedroom apartments in a regular complex (without onsite management) start at about $1,300 per week.
 * Hotels / Motels : Start at about $150-$200 per night per double.
 * B&B / Guesthouse : There's quite a variety - from converted workman's cottages, to modern houses with a couple of rooms added on out the back, to purpose built beachfront luxury. Rates range from about $140 to $450 per night per double.
 * Hostels : There are a number of hostels / backpackers in Byron Bay. Rates start at about $20 per night for a dorm.

Lifted directly off http://www.byron-bay.com/accommodation/

I understand your policy to only link to individual accom providers - you won't link to other websites that list a bunch of individual accommodation providers.

You also seem to realise that a list of links is useless without good general information - which is why I include good general information on my website.

So - if you want to take a shortcut and use my content, I feel it's only fair that the content gets credited with a link.

If you'd rather create your own content - then please do... I don't think you should have it both ways.

You can contact me directly - rick @ byron-bay.com

 * You are quite right, [Wikivoyage] aims to create free content, and not just copy info from other websites.  I have removed the content in question.  And you are right in that a good site also needs general information, and not just listings. Thanks --(WT-en) Inas 00:41, 9 May 2009 (EDT)

Stay Safe - Drinking
I removed the following since it seems all Captain Obvious - or at least not something really specific to Byron Bay? Last sentence about refusal is sometime opaque though.

"If a stranger does shout you a drink make sure it is the drink you want and watch the drink being poured and handed over to you without it leaving your sight. Never get a stranger to buy a drink on your behalf with your money. They could buy something else and drink it themselves. If you are refused a drink by the bar there is a good reason why."

Andrewssi2 (talk) 04:15, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Is Byron Bay really the rainbow capital of Australia?
I’m really happy to be proven wrong - but on what basis is it called the ‘rainbow capital of Australia’?

ABC census article suggests it really isn’t.

But maybe there is another metric / point of fact I’m missing?

A secondary gripe is that why would the fact, if true, make it ‘infamous’ (a negative description)? Andrewssi2 (talk) 11:56, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

 * Not only is there scant evidence of the status of Byron Bay as a ‘rainbow capital’, there is frankly the opposite reported here in the SMH where gay visitors were intimated in November 2023: https://www.smh.com.au/traveller/travel-news/traveller-letters-if-you-are-gay-stay-away-from-byron-bay-20231109-p5eioh.html Andrewssi2 (talk) 13:17, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * And a little research worked it out - edit stating “rainbow capital unambiguously refers to Byron's status as one of the most LGBTQ+-friendly towns in Australia” was just wrong. “Rainbow Region” refers to the area’s wellness movement.
 * In future I recommend actually checking before dismissing other people’s work - your knowledge may be (unambiguously) wrong Andrewssi2 (talk) 13:28, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * One-off, anti-LGBTQ+ incidents happen even in San Francisco – that does not invalidate the claim. And no, it's a well-known fact within LGBTQ+ circles that Byron is one of the most LGBTQ+-friendly towns (which does not necessarily indicate to census numbers). -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 20:27, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * While I'm at it, where are you getting the fact that "'Rainbow Region' refers to the area’s wellness movement"? -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 20:28, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * What "invalidates the claim" was some quick and simple research and frankly you should have done the same. It is wrong because 'Rainbow' referred to something else, then someone assumed incorrectly that it had to mean LGBTQ+ and edited accordingly.
 * "Rainbow Region" was actually already referenced at the bottom of the existing article. If you take this further and Google it (something that we should all do before assuming that we are right) then you will find multiple references to a broader area in this shire for both the wellness community and the broader region for the traditional owners Andrewssi2 (talk) 20:47, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * More info: Talk:Lismore_(New_South_Wales) Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:42, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * mfw when someone uses "Google" as a source; sigh, I'm not arguing with you anymore given you couldn't even give basic respect to me on Talk:Australia. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 07:17, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * It isn’t about respect. You know there is just no evidence of your claim here, and I’m not going to give you more strawmen to burn down. Simple fact is if you had bothered to Google search “Byron Bay Rainbow Capital Australia” (and found basically nothing) rather than trigger reversing then you wouldn’t have embarrassed yourself this far Andrewssi2 (talk) 09:39, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, yeah, enough with the nopology. The face you couldn't respect another person's nationality on Talk:Australia and chose to double down on it instead of apologising is an embarrassment of you. Shame Wikivoyage has admins like this. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:53, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I really wasn’t apologizing, and you are the only one making this personal. You were wrong and didn’t take make ANY good faith attempt above to work together to work out the facts. Although you won’t admit it, hopefully you take better care next time and check. That is what makes a good editor/admin Andrewssi2 (talk) 10:13, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, right, it's always us who are victimised who need to stop making this "personal":
 * By general Australian population, are you also excluding activists? --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 22:59, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * "Yes - Wikivoyage:Be_fair - Political Disputes - 'On Wikivoyage, bring them up only if they are truly relevant to the traveller. ' Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:17, 1 March 2024 (UTC)"
 * The evidence is solid – you explicitly mentioned that activists aren't "general Australians" – if you don't get what's wrong with that, I don't know if you ever will (and yes, it was more than reasonable for me to take offense as I am a social activist which means that you are saying I'm not a "general Australian"). Your behavior is beyond shocking – it is what ruins and tarnishes small projects. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 10:31, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I’m just not dropping to your level. If you can’t discuss in a civil manner then don’t contact me again. Andrewssi2 (talk) 10:52, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Fine then. Drop the stick at your will. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 10:57, 4 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Byron Bay


text:
Talk:Ávila

So, I just checked the Getty Thesaurus of Geographical Names (absolutely essential for anyone messing around with article names here -- see http://www.getty.edu/research/conducting_research/vocabularies/tgn/ ), and it doesn't seem that Ávila has an English name. So, this looks like a righteous move. --(WT-en) Evan 15:52, 3 July 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Ávila


text:
Talk:Åland

Pancake recipe
I can see the value in describing the local cuisine, to entice the traveler to try it and let them know what to expect, but is a recipe to make at home something we really want to start featuring? - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 09:08, 5 July 2006 (EDT)

 * No. (And the pancakes in questions are widely eaten in the whole region, not just Aland.) (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:15, 5 July 2006 (EDT)

 * There seemed to be a consensus of two on removing this recipe 9 years ago. What happened? (Nothing, apparently.) So what do people think now? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:55, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * The pancakes are certainly worth mentioning, as they are one thing Ålanders will serve you or recommend to you. The receipt seems different from what I am used to (although probably living "in the region"), but even if similar pancakes are eaten in the rest of the archipelago they are not eaten everywhere. Whether or not to keep the receipt is in my opinion a question about how much else we have to tell, much like a non-essential image. --LPfi (talk) 12:15, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * My problem with including a recipe is similar to my problem with including web cam links: Sure, there's an element of vicariously traveling through our articles, but we don't really want to promote substitutes to travel. A "virtual visit" through a web cam that shows, say, what's happening at the Western Wall in Jerusalem in real time is not at all the same as traveling, and making pancakes according to a recipe is not at all the same as traveling to Åland and having the pancakes there.

 * Not that it's an optimal article (it's not), but look at the Alcoholic beverages article. Are exact recipes given for the cocktails, or are they described sufficiently for a drinker to have a decent idea of what they're ordering if, for example, they visit Manhattan for a manhattan? Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:35, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Yes, I agree we do not want receipts popping up in many articles. In an isolated case I have no strong opinion, but the value is rather small. If you think it is problematic, just remove it. --LPfi (talk) 16:26, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Recipes, not receipts. Does anyone object to deleting the recipe and substituting a description of the pancakes and explaining that they're a local speciality? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:22, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * I guess I'll make the change, since no-one else seems to be interested in this discussion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:28, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Go ahead. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:31, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Thanks for adding that nice photo of the pancake! Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:57, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Ferry times
I have added the single word 'often' about the arrivals at Mariehamn being in the night. I have crossed from each country, ariving at about midday, so that I found the suggestion that anyone is stuck with night arrivals inaccurate. [[User:(WT-en) davidx|David Cross]

Regions
There are a couple of redlink "regions". Should they be listed? And if so, shouldn't they rather be created as city articles, just like thousand islands? Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:19, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

 * They are the municipalities of Åland and should certainly be listed (how else would you find them?), but you are right, they should be "cities". Some have a clear main village, but even where there are a couple of important ones, these can easily be handled as subsections, at least until sections on individual villages are complete enough to be forked off (and I doubt there will be any need to split off any of them). --LPfi (talk) 18:19, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Map
I removed the map with ferry lines, as it erroneously had the Osnäs (Vuosnainen) ferry leave from Långnäs. The best one I found to use instead is the political map, which nicely shows the location of Åland between Finland (with the Archipelago Sea) and Sweden, the multitude of islands (minor ones not shown, of course) and the municipalities, hence I put it in the beginning of the article.

The new map has a few problems: it has to be big for the names to be readable, its heading calls Åland a state (never heard that characterization) and the ferry lines have to be deduced from municipality names – which probably means a lot of scrolling up and down while reading Get in. I think it would be relatively easy to change fonts and include the lines (I remember Ålandstrafiken had a map similar to the one in the earlier used Åland map png.png, the ones I find now are perhaps a little too schematic), for someone used to editing SVG maps.

--LPfi (talk) 09:28, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * How about taking our old map (it's available as SVG), adding/correcting the ferry lines and maybe also the municipalities and their borders? ϒpsilon (talk) 09:45, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Perhaps, but I like the way more islands and the coastlines and archipelagos of Finland and Sweden can be seen on the current (political) map. Ideally just a little more of the Stockholm archipelago would be seen (cutting just after Kustavi and Korpo instead). Having the municipalities (with borders: using the main villages makes the villages look like towns) is a big bonus and adding them to the old map is probably quite a bit of work. --LPfi (talk) 10:18, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * While editing, remember the language issue. Usually what name to use in English for a place is given by the majority language of the municipality – but as Åland is unilingually Swedish that is not necessarily the right choice. Kustavi will be called Gustavs in the Ålandstrafiken timetables. Neither that nor the pairs Vuosnainen/Osnäs and Turku/Åbo are obvious to a foreigner (to put it mildly). The reverse is true for Matkahuolto (which uses Finnish names even for places like the nearly monolingual Houtskär). --LPfi (talk) 10:29, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Also Kapellskär, Naantali/Nådendal and perhaps Iniö could be mentioned, as they are ports/municipalities reachable by the ferries. --LPfi (talk) 10:36, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Let's do it with the current one, then, I'll make map tonight. It should be possible to add more of the Stockholm archipelago to the map, thankfully the SVG seems to have a lot of layers which makes working much easier. I'd say we should provide both names for places on the Finnish mainland, the majority language first, then the minority version in parenthesis. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:59, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Nice! I expected the edits to be just something to hope for. Of the linked Ålandstrafiken maps, it seems the upper one is reasonably accurate, while the one showing also flights have Silja and Viking go fictional routes (the routes are correct on the old map, shown unlabeled on the upper Ålandstrafiken map). I now also notice the amount of islands (on Åland) probably is the same on the two maps, I was confused by the scale. --LPfi (talk) 11:27, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * The map may take a while and don't expect all the tiny islands & skerries to be there ;). How far west and east should the map stretch? Norrtälje to Turku maybe?
 * Meanwhile, I've added a dynamic map where at least the ferry routes show up. The boundaries of municipalities should show up there too (that's what the "layer=B" parameter in the mapframe tag should do) but those extra parameters seem still to be dysfunctional. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:21, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * As I said, I think Kustavi (the centre) and Korpo (Galtby) are enough on the Finnish side. That would show a little part of the mainland and enough of the Archipelago Sea. On the Swedish side I would like enough for one to see that there likewise is an archipelago. Including Kapellskär may be enough (probably the map should go somewhat more south, but that depends partly on what islands are big enough to get drawn). Grisslehamn is not too far away, but having it off the map is not a problem. Turku, Naantali, Stockholm & al should be mentioned on the map, but they do not have to be on it (including them would probably make Åland itself much too small).

 * For the minor islands: I think the present ones are enough, but I would not like to miss too many more (I suppose you will edit a map where they already are present). The map should show that there are many islands, not only the individually important ones.

 * (I notice again I did not look careful enough: Also the other Ålandstrafiken map seems to show the right routes - ferries to Helsinki and Tallin go to the sea, I missed the line to Turku that indeed was there.)

 * --LPfi (talk) 20:31, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * ✅ ϒpsilon (talk) 19:33, 13 November 2015 (UTC)

Listing order of "Municipalities"
They aren't listed in alphabetical order, so are they listed in some kind of unexplained directional order, or is the current order random? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:57, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

 * The first ones are on the mainland. I think there might have been some later lost logic. A distinction between those reachable without ferry and the archipelago ones could make sense, but it should be explained. --LPfi (talk) 10:22, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

 * I changed the order now. If somebody has better ideas, plunge forward. --LPfi (talk) 10:26, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Thanks. That looks logical now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:53, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Hierarchy
Why is this treated as its own country and not part of Finland?

Åland_Islands makes it clear that although there is a great deal of autonomy and residents speak Swedish rather than Finnish, it is still within the nation of Finland.

Can we correct this, or does someone feel very strongly about it? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 08:45, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

 * It is somewhat complicated. The article Nordic countries mention the autonomous areas prominently, and I think also the Nordic council has eight members instead of five (the council itself seems somewhat confused on the matter). I think there is no problem in how they are treated there.

 * Åland is classified as usableregion and it is treated as a region in the Finland article, which seems fine. The Ålanders probably do feel strongly about it, but there are no separate entry requirements (except for the customs, mainly relevant after tax-free shopping, which is its own issue anyway), the border to Finland is invisible and Åland is tightly knit to mainland Finland e.g. in terms of transport. I change the PartOf now.

 * Are there other things that should (or should not) be changed?

 * --LPfi (talk) 10:01, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

Redlinks
Should Redlinks be listed in the "cities" section? Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:27, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

 * I know we have a different tradition from Wikipedia, where redlinks are important for encouraging article creation, but I do not see any good alternative. We could unlink them, with little gained, remove them, pretending those places do not exist, or make up our own structure combining the municipalities to bigger "cities".

 * Having a "Mainland Åland countryside" would be doable, but then we'd loose Eckerö, instead having it as a subheading in every section. The mainland municipalities are nine, so the list is not overly long anyhow. Lumping archipelago municipalities together would complicate matters, as communications largely follow the municipal division. And municipalities are not just administrative entities, people do feel strongly for them.

 * The municipalities are tiny, but I'd be surprised if you could not find Sleep+Eat and See/Do listings for all of them. And given the Get around issues, it is clearer to have at least all archipelago municipalities in separate articles.

 * Would creating outlines help? I could probably get a few to usable with moderate work (Eat and Sleep should probably be combined in many cases, and some of those repeated as See/Do).

 * --LPfi (talk) 06:26, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Kastelholm
I removed the following:
 * "... and home to many Swedish kings who reigned the combined kingdom of Sweden and Finland from this place"

I have never heard that Sweden would have been ruled from Åland or that some king would have lived on Kastelholm, so this seems like a misunderstanding (perhaps some king stayed there for some time). And the "combined kingdom" sounds like the myth originating in Finnish nation building in the 19th century. It survived in textbooks into the 1980s, but is not considered a valid description by historians (modern Finland was an integral part of the kingdom, language and culture were irrelevant in this respect until late 18th century).

The role of Kastelholm should of course be checked and described, but one should do that with a reliable source.

--LPfi (talk) 11:48, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

Åland's status under Russian rule
There is a somewhat cryptic reference to a treaty "at the issue of the Crimean War" [sic!] which I can't make heads or tails of. Can someone please clarify that in proper English? Hobbitschuster (talk) 09:06, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

 * I suppose what is meant is the peace treaty of that war. I think it is quite clear now. --LPfi (talk) 15:02, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

 * I think it would be helpful exactly which treaty when. We don't need to necessarily go into that detail in the article, but I hate it when shortening stuff makes things wrong. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:14, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

 * Seemingly Treaty of Paris (1856). There was also a declaration and "servitute", the latter specifically about Åland. The articles in Swedish are a little confused, so there might be errors, but they mainly say the same as the English one. --LPfi (talk) 18:14, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

Idea for a travel topic
There are quite a few ferries going around the small islands between mainland Åland and the Archipelago Sea mainly operated by Ålandstrafiken. But there are some shorter hops showing up on openstreetmap and Google Maps that probably are operated by some other ferries, and then connections towards the Finnish mainland could be mentioned. Such a Ferries to Åland, Archipelago Sea to Åland, Finland to Åland across the islands (or whatever it would be called) article would be a natural continuation to the Archipelago Sea and Archipelago Trail articles, I think. LP and Xepheid, you're more familiar with this corner of the world, what do you say? --Ypsilon (talk) 18:12, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

 * I think most of this could be covered in Åland and the individual Get in/around, as I think the shorter hops are well integrated with the overall transportaion system. For cruising around with ferries, it is mostly the long lines (Norra linjen and Södra linjen) that are relevant. An Island hopping on Åland travel topic could be worthwhile, but I think it is very much premature until we have developed the individual destination articles. Biking on Åland is surrounded with much hype, so creating such an article would surely be good, also after improving the destination articles. Of course, if somebody wants to create the topics, covering also See, Do, Eat and Sleep en route, then lack of destination articles is not such a big problem, and the listings could be moved to the destination articles afterwards. Covering those is what I see as critical.

 * To my knowledge the connections between Åland and the Archipelago Sea are the Långnäs–Galtby and Brändö–Kustavi routes and the ferries in the Houtskär/Iniö waters, which from time to time visit Brändö, but are not very useful for getting across – my impression is that you usually end up somewhere odd. Archipelago Trail gives some information for those wanting to explore these latter connections (at least the names of the routes, for use in searches).

 * –LPfi (talk) 07:07, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Hm, perhaps the Houtskärs/Iniö ruttområde and tilläggsrutt are very much usable for this; I became frustrated trying to find a connection between Houtskär and Iniö with them – the ferries visit both, they visit Brändö, but don't go from Houtskär to Iniö. They probably can be used for the connections between Brändö and the two without problems, and between the two if you spend a day or a few in Brändö. –LPfi (talk) 07:15, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Deletions
Did this edit improve the article? I tend to think reverting it would be best, but let's discuss this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:29, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

 * What was that? Not even an edit summary! From where is the thought that "the native language of the Ålanders is Swedish" and "knowledge of Finnish is virtually non-existent".

 * True, Swedish is the sole official language, and most Ålanders are indeed Swedish-speaking with weak Finnish, but in Brändö there is a (recent) Finnish-speaking minority of 18,9% – and most people do study Finnish in school even if they don't have to.

 * One might argue that what was there was too wordy, and we can discuss the nuances of the facts, or what might be excessive detail – but this I will revert. I'd be interested in how these conclusions were arrived at.

 * –LPfi (talk) 13:55, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

 * Hey, was trimming down stuff in the talk section as it did seem very wordy. Just copyedited whatever was on there, nothing more, nothing less. Roovinn (talk) 14:26, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

 * I support the idea of editing for brevity, but only when you're eliminating unnecessary wordiness without removing useful information. That's not how these edits struck me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:30, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Åland


text:
Talk:Ålesund

What do other people think about using tables for get in information? I, personally, think they are ugly and should not be used. The biggest issue I take up with this anon adding these in is adding the information about which aircraft someone would be flying in on. Seriously, is knowing what kind of Boeing or Air Bus aircraft an airline uses that important? - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 06:04, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

Alternative banner for this article?
I created a new alternative banner for this article (I initially created it first and foremost so that it would be used at the top of the parallel article in the Hebrew edition of Wikivoyage, yet I later decided to also suggest that the English Wikivoyage community would consider using it here as well). So, which banner do you prefer having at the top of this article? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 05:20, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * With the caveat that I haven't visited this town: The new banner is mostly a nice sunset, with some dark geographic features visible. The current banner seems to me to show some character. So on the face of it, I'd favor sticking with the current banner. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:27, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Keep current --Andrewssi2 (talk) 12:41, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Both are lovely, but I would say #1 - only because a sunset could be anywhere. – Hshook (talk) 13:53, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm for #1. Danapit (talk) 18:28, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Keep current. #1 shows the towns landmark buildings, instantly recognised. --Erik den yngre (talk) 19:13, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * I vote for #2 as it has much more impact, it is artistic whereas the first one is less exalting. Syced (talk) 09:09, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

 * I like #1 even though #2 appeals to me Matroc (talk) 06:13, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ålesund


text:
Talk:Århus

Randers Regnskov ( Randers Tropical Zoo ) should be added to the get out section http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randers_Tropical_Zoo

Another good idea is the ruined castle at Kalø http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kal%C3%B8_slot

Ree Park ( a zoo ) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ree_Park_-_Ebeltoft_Safari could perhaps also be added

I also think Brabrand Sø is worth a visit http://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brabrand_s%C3%B8

 * No need to list these here. Please plunge forward and add them to the article yourself! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 02:25, 24 January 2010 (EST)

 * Ree Park should go en Ebeltoft, and Randers Regnskov in Randers. But Brabrand Lake would be a good addition, and Kalø is a nice fit in the get out section. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 05:51, 24 January 2010 (EST)

All right guys, thanks for your help. I was afraid of doing something wrong. Will investigate the site a bit more before doing my first edit. Will delete this rambling in the talk section later.

 * No need to delete talk page comments—we always keep them as a rule, even if they're not terribly important, for our records. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:58, 24 January 2010 (EST)

Århus / Aarhus: two different articles?
Is this article on the same subject as Aarhus? Should they be merged? Danapit (talk) 05:55, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

 * Yeah, the same. I think two pages were created during moves around August/October 2010 and since then there were no significant contributions to this one, except the banner yesterday. Jjtkk (talk) 06:22, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Århus


text:
Talk:Ærø

Article name
Um, according to Project:Article naming conventions and Project:Romanization, shouldn't this article be named Aero? -- (WT-en) Ryan 02:59, 17 September 2006 (EDT)

 * No. Latin characters are the letters A through Z, capitalized or not, with or without accents or diacritics. (WT-en) Jpatokal 15:16, 17 September 2006 (EDT)

 * OK - I'll admit to not fully understanding what Romanization entails, and since "Æ" and "ø" didn't look like anything I would ever be able to figure out how to type in using an en-US keyboard I assumed they fell into the "other characters" category. If the article stays named as it is, we should at least have a redirect from Aero right?  Otherwise users of non-Danish keyboards would need a special character map tool to search for this article. -- (WT-en) Ryan 21:09, 17 September 2006 (EDT)

 * ...and it looks like Andrew created the redirects, so all is well now. -- (WT-en) Ryan 21:36, 17 September 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Ærø


text:
Talk:Évora

= Central Portugal =

Évora most definitely is in Southern Portugal. Sorry, don't know how to edit that. --(WT-en) Xyzt1234 18:38, 15 September 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Évora


text:
Talk:Île-de-France

Joy of travelling
[heading added later --LPfi (talk) 07:16, 17 July 2020 (UTC)]

scratching below the surface of Paris

One of the joys of travelling to a foreign country is getting to know the people who actually live there, work there, or have made a life there. This is not always as easy to do as one might wish, either because in a big city like Paris (as in most big cities) it can be hard to connect due to its pace and sheer size, but also because in France - and even more so in the large cities - the French are simply not in the habit of opening up to others. Even the way they live tends to cut them off from other people: in Paris, most people live in apartments totally cut off from the street which are often further barracaded behind huge communal doors equipped with intercodes, guards, etc. Even balconies are fairly rare and are never used in the 'public' manner one might find in, say, southern Italy where the denizons wave and call out, dine, and hang their laundry; in Paris a balcony may have a few plants used more as a further blocade than anything else. Of course, still less does one find street level gardens where one might peek in and even start a conversation or ask a direction as one might do in San Francisco or even parts of London. One can go to a cafe, or course, but even there a 'wall' is often built; one might very well have a pleasant exchange but it will be superficial, and you will certainly never be invited to the acquaintance's home. The French do not even invite each other to visit their homes unless they are family or very good friends; a business dinner invariably takes place in a restaurant.

There are certainly other factors: one may not speak French - itself a language that can create 'distance' through the use of 'vous' or the 'impersonal'- or the weather may not be conducive to lingering outside. And yet, other nationalities seem more ready to push through these barriers - in my own travels I have often been invited 'back home' in places as diverse as Barcelona, Capri, London, Dublin, Istanbul, Copenhagen, and certainly in the United States, even when I have not spoken the native tongue.

One good way to break through the barrier is to stay at a bed and breakfast (B&B, chambre d'hote) rather than in a hotel. Chosen wisely, a b&b will offer an experience of 'living' in the country and offer a glimpse into everyday life right down to the family meal ritual, the newest rose winner at the famous Courson plant expo (the French 'Chelsea') planted near the front door, or even an egg from a long-forgotten race of French hen from the family's chicken coop. If you are lucky, you can literally plunge into at least some aspects of French life only an hour off your flight from New York or London and attain a level of intimacy certainly denied your confreres/consoeurs at the local Hyatt or even that rather old small hotel on a side street in the 13th arrondissement of Paris.

It is true that there are not all that many true b&bs actually in Paris; many are in fact small, or not so small, hotels, others are actually empty apartments where your only intimate experience of the 'real' life in France is how to get the toilet to flush, or it may simply be Pierre's old bedroom (filled with the detritus of his lycee days) that his parents, both gone all day trying to earn enough to afford both their Paris apartment and their weekend house in Normandy, have decided to 'let out' on the principle that, well, the room is now empty (and God forbid that a centimeter of precious Parisian apartment space should not pay its way) and that, after all, Madame has only to heat an 'industrial' croissant or baguette in the morning for the guest as she rushes off in a waft of Opium on her way to the metro at 7 am.

This is not to say that a more satisfying b&b experience does not exist, either in Paris or in the rest of France - far from it. But make sure you do a bit of research before making your choice so that you end up neither in Pierre's old bed nor (perhaps worse?) in one of the million 'gites' run by the hordes of fleeing Brits who may themselves be living in a British 'ghetto' (especially in Brittany and the south of France), do not speak French, do not know France, are not involved in the local life but who certainly know cheaper land values, cheaper wine, and better weather when they see it and hope that letting out (in this case) Jeremy's old bed will allow them to continue to enjoy la bonne vie.

What to look for and how to find it? You want a place that is run by someone who does this out of a love for people and hospitality - and normally that conviviality will shine through on their website (your most likely bet). This is not a business people go into to get rich and nor should it be just a way to bring in a few euros after the kids leave. Indeed, because (done properly)it requires real hard work behind the scenes, an attention to detail, and great trust on the part of the owner to open his/her home the only real reason to do it is from a love of people and a pride in revealing the France not normally experienced by a casual tourist. France, like all of Europe, is a nation of immigrants who form the fabric of the land (look at Sarkozy, for example) so one needn't shy away from a non-French run b&b but choose someplace where the owner speaks the language - already a good indicator of involvement in France and a commitment to life there.

If Paris is on your agenda - and it should be - do not restrict yourself to staying in the city center. Some of the reasons are discussed above. But there are other reasons: by staying just outside the city center you may well find a pace of life that allows you to enter more intimately and more quickly into the 'French experience'. The rates may well be cheaper and you will certainly get more value for your money; there will be space, clean air, hopefully quiet at night, and amenities Paris cannot provide (gardens, parking, clean sidewalks, space for all the family together, access to recreational facilities, a fireplace, a small town center that is safe and 'open' where you can meet the locals, and those very 'peeks' over the garden wall only dreamt of in Paris itself. As for transportation, this is the other interesting part: it can very often be quicker to go from the suburbs of Paris to, say, the Louvre, than to get there from Pierre's old bedroom several metro transfers away, and you will quite possibly arrive there more rested, with more cash in your pocket, and after having had a charming conversation with your hostess who has given you real ideas of what to see on you first trip (afer all, you know about the Eiffel tower already!) and quite possibly enough breakfast that you will only need a snack before her dinner recommendations start to seem appealing.

Again,where to look? There are a lot of good websites which, of course, tend to be more up to date than published guidebooks. Try typing in 'b&b paris area' or 'b&b Ile de France', possibly adding descriptives such as 'garden b&b','near golf', 'family friendly', 'near Versailles', 'near Giverny', or 'Yvelines'(birthplace of Louis XIV and home of Emile Zola, Dumas, Empress Josephine, and the Impressionists); some good general sites include ibbp.com, innsite.com, lanierbb.com, ricksteves.com, not to mention 'non-commercial' sites in which independent reviewers write in about their own experiences (tripadvisor.com, journeywoman.com - especially good for helping women get the most out of their trips abroad).

Go with a curious attitude and a willingness to forego peanut butter or marmite and you will find that even without speaking the language, your openness and the warm welcome and advice of your b&b host(ess) will enable you to enter into a part of France that the French normally reserve for themselves, la vraie bonne vie!

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:36, 21 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Disneland Paris-castle.jpg

Meaux, Marne-la-Vallée and Mickey Mouse
Marne-la-Vallée and Meaux are presented as "large new town[s], best known for Mickey Mouse's European pad". But Meaux talks about historical buildings in the old city, inside old defensive walls. I suppose the descriptions should be rewritten. And Disneyland Paris should apparently be mentioned in Meaux at least as a Go next (with some wording about how they are connected, and directions from Meaux given either in the latter or in the Get in of the former) – or is that "pad" something unrelated that should be described in Understand? --LPfi (talk) 07:16, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

 * The description, which I wrote, refers exclusively to Marne-la-Vallée. I'm not sure when or why it was used to talk about the historic town of Meaux, home of brie.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 07:38, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

 * Apparently 7 August 2018, by Ground Zero. --LPfi (talk) 08:46, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

 * I've changed the description for Meaux.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:53, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
 * That seems to have been a copying error on my part. I fixed the lat, long and Wikidata fields, but neglected the description.  My apologies. Ground Zero (talk) 11:27, 17 July 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:38, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * - arena - (50015736258).png

 * No FoP in France. I'll upload this right away SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:40, 26 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Done SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:45, 26 March 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Île-de-France


text:
Talk:Ölüdeniz

nothing is on it your staff needs to edit this instead and not sit so lazily on their fat butts :|

 * Wikivoyage content is maintained by contributors like you. Any user can add information to any page. If you know something about Ölüdeniz, then plunge forward! There are no "staff members" making sure each city has content. That is up to you! (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 20:33, 10 July 2009 (EDT)

Paragliding tour links
Is that just a lot of spam? If not, how should we police it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:04, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ölüdeniz


text:
Talk:Þingvellir National Park

Article naming
To those contributing to this article: Please see our naming conventions. It seems to me that "Þingvellir National Park" can not be an English word as the initial character is not in our alphabet. I see that the article was at one time moved to the anglicized version and then later moved back. I propose to move it back to the English version unless dissuaded here. -- (WT-en) OldPine 10:32, 1 September 2008 (EDT)

 * Sorry, I saw this comment after moving the article again... in Iceland and in guidebooks the park is called "Þingvellir", and while there are references to "Thingvellir" on the web I think it is more confusing to a traveler to try to Romanize this one. Having just visited Iceland myself, I would not necessarily have recognized that "Thingvellir" referred to the same place as the national park name I saw on maps and highway signs.  Unlike Thai, Chinese, or a language which has a completely unique alphabet Icelandic is mostly the same as English, so the "Romanized" versions of place names aren't in common usage.  As a result, Romanizing the name seems more likely to hinder a tourist than to help so long as we make sure to create redirects for the non-Icelandic versions of the destination names. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 00:01, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

 * For further reference, have a look at Talk:Ærø - I can't type that name on my keyboard, but per Jani it's more correct than Aero. I admit to being rather confused by the naming conventions both in the case of Þingvellir and Ærø. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 11:20, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

 * Ah, OK, that makes sense. Wish someone had put the reasoning here on the talk page the first time they went non-Roman. (WT-en) OldPine 13:01, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

Alternative banner for this article?

In the Hebrew Wikivoyage we are currently using this banner instead of the one which is currently used here. Do you think too that this banner would would better than the existing one? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 06:43, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

 * I don't know. I think they're both really good banners. Whichever one isn't used as a banner should be used in photo form. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:03, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Banner
Title. -- SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:05, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer the second one. The dog2 (talk) 17:56, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Typo?
Current lede has:
 * Þingvellir National Park (pronounced Thingvetlir)...

Is that pronunciation correct, or should "tl" be "ll"? Pashley (talk) 15:16, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Þingvellir National Park


text:
Talk:Ćuk

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Comments
If Ćuk is a city in Croatia how come it does not seem to be marked on maps. All I can find is a reference to a valley called Ćuk in Bosnia and Herzegovina, between Doboj, Zenica and Banja Luka. Is the article correct? - (WT-en) Huttite 07:20, 15 December 2009 (EST)

 * I found this, but that is the only reference I can seem to find anywhere - and it's not marked in Google maps. /edit, here is the google link, at the very least it should be redirected to 'Biovicino Selo', since it's seems like collection of 6 or so houses. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 08:05, 15 December 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Ćuk