text:
Talk:Sydney/Eastern suburbs

Districts
There is a problem with the current hierarchy of this article. The traveler is going to see the Eastern Suburbs as one article and be confused because all the listings cover a large area. They may not notice the distinct articles below.

I suggest making a region with the districts made clear:

 * Sydney/Maroubra
 * Sydney/Watsons Bay - (will need to be created)
 * Sydney/Coogee
 * Sydney/Bondi

Question is how to manage the 'inner city' areas from Kings Cross to Centennial Park. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 20:33, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Another way to resolve this is to just merge all the articles, such as I have done with Sydney/Lower_North_Shore. I know Bondi is an iconic destination, but to be fair there isn't that much to do there other than lie on the beach and swim. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:13, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

 * I'm also thinking much of the current information in the sub-articles could be placed into a travel topic such as Beaches of Sydney. This would also resolve the messy situation with the Northern beaches article as well. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:21, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Working on an example here: User:Andrewssi2/Sydney Beaches --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:02, 1 January 2015 (UTC)

It was difficult to come up with a good strategy for Eastern Suburbs. Basically there are so many and it doesn't make sense to create an article for each.

I think this can be fixed by creating three articles based on the suburb division of the Eastern suburbs on Wikipedia:

Eastern_Suburbs_(Sydney)

 * Sydney/Eastern_Suburbs/North
 * Sydney/Eastern_Suburbs/South - (merge and redirect Sydney/Bondi and Sydney/Coogee here
 * Sydney/Eastern_Suburbs/West

--Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:16, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Ah just noticed this. That's a fair division though I can't say much for the names. I think the west parts of Eastern Suburbs is covered in Sydney/City East, but it's a whole different mess also.
 * Probably Sydney/Darling Point-Watsons Bay - all the harbourside areas
 * Sydney/Bondi-Coogee (this would also need to hold Kensington to Kingsford, then we could merge in Sydney/Clovelly & Sydney/Bronte too)
 * And finally Sydney/Maroubra-La Perouse (Sydney/Maroubra, Eastgardens, Pagewood etc)
 * Technically Sydney/Eastern_Suburbs/South should cover Bondi all the way to La Perouse. 'Bondi to La Perouse' would be more correct than 'Bondi-La Perouse' in that case. -- torty3 (talk) 08:41, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

 * Many thanks for the input! I feel now that organizing Sydney is getting just too big a job, and actually I don't really want to create an additional level of structure that I was formally proposing.
 * That said, it would be great if we could re-work Bondi into an article that covered everywhere from Bondi to La Perouse in the manner you describe. Andrewssi2 (talk) 08:48, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

 * Yeah, most tourist guidebooks would refer to 'Bondi and the Eastern Suburbs' only, with emphasis on Bondi Beach, though in this case we got stuck on that mindset, and Eastern Suburbs grew too much and overshadowed everything. Splitting it into harbourside and oceanside would help a lot. Might need to check whether there is accommodation in the area as well. I'm not sure if a 'Bondi to La Perouse' article will be unwieldy later, but still better than what Eastern Suburbs is now. Organising Sydney districts is definitely too big a job for one person, and I lost a lot of steam while attempting that :) I think I did suggest putting all of southern Sydney in one district before, though it does look a little better now albeit still geared more towards long-term visitors. -- torty3 (talk) 09:16, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

 * Yes! I thought my time better spent on the other regions of NSW, which I'm now mostly happy with. Southern Sydney is getting better now.. actually I have neglected that part of the city even though I live here. Sydney/Macarthur would be a good next target. Andrewssi2 (talk) 02:04, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Banner
I don't know why, but the proposed gives me an Eastern suburbs vibe for some reason. Perhaps could be the compact houses plus the waves? -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 11:30, 12 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Banner 1 has less visual appeal than Banner 0. Ground Zero (talk) 14:14, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Separate Eastern Suburbs & South-Eastern Suburbs Page
The page is getting quite cluttered. Perhaps a thought would be to create a Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs made up of the districts Randwick-Coogee, Maroubra-Matraville and Botany-Eastgardens. This page can be kept for Woollahra-Double Bay, Waverley-Bondi and The Centennial Parklands. Just a thought to spread things out a bit, at the end of the day no one is going to visit Watsons Bay and La Perouse in one day. The section regarding Randwick Hospital would have to remain on both pages. Any thoughts? 203.49.228.129 00:56, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Are you ? If so, I will abide by my self-imposed interaction ban. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 12:56, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not Mapper2000. What are your thoughts on the proposal SHB2000? 203.49.228.129 01:10, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, good to know. I made User:SHB2000/ES a while back – Randwick can be renamed to southeastern suburbs, but it's divided in a way so Sydney/Bondi doesn't stand out as a standalone sub-district article (as it does now). I'm not that familiar with the Woollahra, but I believe there should be enough content to warrant a separate article. This is all while this article remains as its own "huge-city" article (something like Brooklyn having districts, but it's also under NYC, if you got what I meant). SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 01:24, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok. I think I understand. My initial thought is to use the Eastern Sydney District map on both pages but The Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs will only display travel information within the Randwick-Coogee, Maroubra-Matraville and Botany-Eastgardens districts while everything within Woollahra-Double Bay, Waverley-Bondi and Centennial Parklands Districts will still remain on this page.
 * Or just for clarity are you suggesting we keep the current eastern suburbs article with all the information it currently has including the six districts and only copy the information regarding Randwick-Coogee, Maroubra-Matraville and Botany-Eastgardens onto the south-eastern page which would then mean I wouldn't be deleting any information from the eastern suburbs page as it is now. Is that how you'd prefer it? 203.49.228.129 04:19, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * For clarity: all the listings on this page will be moved to the relevant subpages; this page is then turned into an "overview" article kind of like our region articles (e.g. Mid-North Coast). SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 04:54, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand what you mean. Perhaps this eastern suburbs page can be kept with only the relevant information about Woollahra-Double Bay, Waverley-Bondi and Centennial Parklands Districts and everything regarding south-eastern suburbs is just cut from this page and pasted into the new south-eastern page. and then perhaps an 'overview' article could be created called 'Eastern Sydney'. I don't mind how you'd like to do it just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing when i start putting information onto the south-eastern suburbs page. 203.49.228.129 05:08, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure thing. ( Also regarding the draft below, I'd recommend placing it under a userspace draft to avoid cluttering this page – but since you're an anon, feel free to do so on User:SHB2000/Eastern suburbs, User:SHB2000/Southeastern suburbs, etc. ) -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 07:54, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I've created this account if it's easier. I'll create the drafts for you. Thank you for being helpful. User:Voyage2023/Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs User:Voyage2023/Sydney/Eastern Suburbs Voyage2023 (talk) 08:37, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't know why but I keep getting blocked from creating the south-eastern suburbs page under 'cannabis/cbd spam' Voyage2023 (talk) 08:41, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It's a global abuse filter – I can't do anything about that since I'm not an abuse filter helper/maintainer, but try replacing "CBD" with "downtown" (I'll come and change them onwards later using a command F search). You're not the only one who's fallen victim to this filter, though. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:12, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * , any other ideas on bypassing the filter? SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:15, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * haha yeah I realised it was recognising Sydney CBD as Cannabis/CBD. Silly me. Thank you. Voyage2023 (talk) 09:15, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it sucks because "CBD" means more than just cannabidiol in many parts of the world. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:18, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I've created User:Voyage2023/Sydney/Eastern Suburbs if you'd like to look over the draft of what this eastern suburbs page will look like now that Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs exists. If you'd be willing to make the change so that it's no longer so crowded. I cannot edit it myself as the site is recognising me removing information and blocking me from doing so. Thank you for your help regarding all of this. I could see there were previous discussions on how to get the eastern suburbs page to become less crowded. Voyage2023 (talk) 09:39, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Mostly looks good to me – but how will Sydney/Bondi be integrated? (I'm not familiar with this area outside the Randwick/Centennial Park area). As for the previous discussions, from what I can tell, has been inactive for years, but  still periodically checks in (though it's been over a year since they have). --  SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 11:11, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I can integrate the information on the Bondi page into the draft of the new Eastern Suburbs page as part of the Waverley District. I will say however that perhaps it's a good idea to keep the Bondi Beach page as a stand alone as it's the most famous beach in Sydney. It's your call, whatever you think is best. Voyage2023 (talk) 12:58, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The South Eastern Suburbs page at Wikipedia was deleted for being original research and for not being well supported by references. An anonymous IP was spamming Wikipedia for months and they ended up being temporarily banned. it looks like the same anonymous IP is the person who created the South Eastern Suburbs page here, and later registered the Voyage2023 account. I believe the South Eastern Suburbs page here should be deleted (for the same reasons that it was deleted on Wikipedia) and the content merged back into the Eastern Suburbs page. Daceyvillain (talk) 04:45, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

South-Eastern Suburbs Page Concept
This is the concept however it won't allow me to publish the article as I'm not an administrator:

The South-Eastern Suburbs of Sydney are located south-east of Sydney CBD at the southern end of Eastern Sydney starting south of The Centennial Parklands with Kensington, Randwick and Clovelly in the north down to Botany Bay in the south. It is a very popular area for visitors to Sydney, including Coogee Beach, Maroubra Beach and La Perouse. It is well-served by public transport and located on the eastern side of Botany Bay and The M1 Eastern Distributor. For Sydney's Eastern Suburbs see here.

Understand

The South-Eastern Suburbs enjoys extensive frontages of Botany Bay, the Ocean beaches and extensive towering sandstone clifftops. This part of Sydney has a choice of over 5 different beaches. Sydney's south-eastern suburbs connect through to the City Centre through the City east precinct south-east towards Randwick, Coogee, Kensington, Kingsford, Maroubra and La Perouse connected primarily through Anzac Parade.

Oceanside Areas
Randwick City Council
 * Clovelly Beach
 * Coogee Beach
 * Maroubra Beach
 * Malabar Beach
 * Little Bay Beach

Botany Bay
The south-eastern suburbs lines the eastern side of Botany Bay with Port Botany, Philip Bay and La Perouse.

Districts
Eastern Sydney overall is a relatively small metropolitan area of Sydney compared to its counterparts of Northern, Western and Southern but still has much to offer with some of Sydney’s most famous and beautiful spots.

Eastern Sydney
Eastern Sydney is comprised of The Eastern Suburbs and The South-Eastern Suburbs stretching from Watsons Bay down to La Perouse including famous harbourside locations, coastal beaches and lookouts on the eastern shore of Botany Bay. Sydney's South-Eastern Suburbs are made up of Randwick-Coogee, Maroubra-Matraville and Botany-Eastgardens.

By Bus

 * Sydney Buses runs extensive services throughout the South-Eastern Suburbs.  Most originate from Circular Quay in the city, however some originate at Railway Square near Central Station.

There are three main bus routes from the city at Circular Quay that run all day, every day. They are:
 * 373 - To Coogee Beach via Taylor Square, Moore Park and Randwick Junction
 * 394/L94 - To La Perouse via Taylor Square, Moore Park and Maroubra Junction

There are also lots of local services to Shopping Malls - Eastgardens being the largest. There are also other city bound services from most beaches and major areas as well as cross city Metrobuses which are rapid transit style buses that run every 15 mins from 7am - 7pm daily.
 * M10 Maroubra Junction To Leichardt
 * M20 Botany To Gore Hill
 * M50 Coogee To Drummoyne

There is also a beach connect service during summer on weekends and runs From Bondi Beach at the Tour Buses to Coogee Beach via Bronte number 362 and runs from 10am to 6pm

By Light Rail (Tram)
The South-Eastern Suburbs are connected via The Sydney CBD and South East Light Rail which takes residents of Randwick, Kingsford and Kensington to Circular Quay via Moore Park, Surry Hills and George Street in The Sydney CBD

By Car
Sydney's South-Eastern Suburbs are very accessible by car with lots of major roadways. For The South-Eastern Suburbs major roads include Anzac Parade and The M1 Eastern Distributor which runs from the city past the start of Anzac Parade down to The Sydney Airport before becoming The M5 South West Distributer. Traffic can sometimes be a struggle but is generally alright and parking can be a competition that never let's you win at the beaches in summer.

Ocean beaches
Swim, surf, walk or explore the south-eastern suburbs beaches.

From North to South

Randwick City Council

 * Clovelly Beach. Clovelly is a beach like no other in the area.  If you are looking for a safe, wave free swim, then Clovelly is for you, but be prepared to swap the natural beauty of Sydney's other beaches for a beach that resembles a cement basketball court. There is a long bay, a breakwater, and calm swimming.  It is a great location for walking, with headland walks heading north and south.  The walk north to Waverley Cemetery popular and spectacular. The kiosk is now a upmarket cafe, so a good place to pack a picnic for.  Parking can be difficult, at peak times, but it is usually possible to find a spot somewhere.  Public transport access is by bus.  If you are not satisfied with Clovelly's man-made feel, follow the path south to Gordon's Bay where you will find an astonishing deep bay, popular with backpackers and the nimble of foot (the water is best accessed by climbing over rocks.

 * Coogee Beach. Very pretty and popular beach.  A little smaller than Bondi, but not a small beach, and it has a bit of a similar feel to it.  Nice for swimming and walking, with a rock pool at the southern end of the beach.  Plenty of facilities surrounding it, Coogee has pubs, restaurants and takeaway places.  Parking and car access can be difficult.  Public transport access is by bus  routes are to the City, Central, Eastgardens and Bondi Junction.

 * Maroubra Beach. Sydney largest south-eastern beach, with good facilities and great waves.  You will always find a spot on the sand at Maroubra, but gets crowded swimming between the flags.  Large parking lots, which do fill up summer weekends.  Probably a little less scenic than the beaches further north, as it lacks the cliff headlands, therefore probably not as good for walking.  A cafe and kiosk on the beach, open even during winter.  Public transport access is by bus.

 * Malabar Beach. Sheltered at the end of Long Bay, Malabar is not the beach for surfers.  It is a smaller, quieter beach, often not crowded at all.  It is not patrolled by lifeguards.  Parking is usually available.  Public transport access is by bus.

 * Little Bay and Congwong Beach. A beautiful, calm little bay (hence the name) surrounded by cliffs. Rather untouched, save for an amenities hut, this beach is accessed by traveling through old hospital grounds —Prince Henry Hospital— that have now been converted into retirement villages and upper class neighborhoods. There are a couple of shops located on Anzac Parade, which is a bout 10 minutes walk away from the beach. The beach is NOT dog friendly, good for snorkeling and kids, although this beach is not patrolled by lifeguards. Has a nice quiet atmosphere. Best accessed by car or any south-bound bus services running along Anzac Parade, such as the 392. Congwong is a calm beach nearby, save for the planes taking off overhead. There are several other beaches that are around La Perouse and the airport, but have little to no surf due to the calm waters of Botany Bay.

La Perouse and Kamay-Botany Bay
La Perouse in The South-Eastern Suburbs was the site of some of Australia's earliest European history. It is named after a French explorer, Jean François de Galaup de Lapérouse, who was commissioned by King Louis XVI of France to explore the Pacific. The La Perouse area has also been an Aboriginal reserve, a defence site and even a home for hundreds of homeless Sydneysiders during the Great Depression. Much of the area is now a national park, and there are cliffs, inlets, bays, and walking trails to explore. Visit on a summer Sunday, and you will see Sydney in full recreation mode, with boomerang throwers, kite fliers, beach goers, fishermen, walkers, and picnic blankets with fish and chips. You might even catch the snake man showing Australian native snakes, all for a dollar in the hat at the end of the show.

 * Frenchmans Beach at La Perouse. This is a swimming spot on Botany Bay. It is a fairly average beach, but has an interesting westerly outlook which allows you see the sun setting over the bay, which is very unusual in Sydney, where looking over the water usually means you are facing east. Accessible by car or bus.
 * La Perouse Congwong Bay Beach. Little Congwong Beach is an unofficial & secluded clothing optional beach located at La Perouse, which is reached only by walking through the Botany Bay national park. Little Congwong Beach has been used peacefully by naturists for more than 40 years. Make your way to La Perouse on Botany Bay and park in the car park just north of Bare Island. Walk down the steps to Congwong Beach then left across the rocks to Little Congwong Beach, the second bay. This beach is very popular on summer weekends. Little Congwong is small, and has been described as the most beautiful beach oasis in Sydney.
 * La Perouse Congwong Bay Beach. Little Congwong Beach is an unofficial & secluded clothing optional beach located at La Perouse, which is reached only by walking through the Botany Bay national park. Little Congwong Beach has been used peacefully by naturists for more than 40 years. Make your way to La Perouse on Botany Bay and park in the car park just north of Bare Island. Walk down the steps to Congwong Beach then left across the rocks to Little Congwong Beach, the second bay. This beach is very popular on summer weekends. Little Congwong is small, and has been described as the most beautiful beach oasis in Sydney.
 * La Perouse Congwong Bay Beach. Little Congwong Beach is an unofficial & secluded clothing optional beach located at La Perouse, which is reached only by walking through the Botany Bay national park. Little Congwong Beach has been used peacefully by naturists for more than 40 years. Make your way to La Perouse on Botany Bay and park in the car park just north of Bare Island. Walk down the steps to Congwong Beach then left across the rocks to Little Congwong Beach, the second bay. This beach is very popular on summer weekends. Little Congwong is small, and has been described as the most beautiful beach oasis in Sydney.

Do

 * Go to the beach. Pick any one of the iconic South-Eastern Suburbs beaches and enjoy the sand, surf and parade of Australian city beach culture.
 * Take a walk. Sydney's Great Coastal Walk - Barrenjoey to Royal National Park, this seven day walk traverses the great urban coastal walk of Sydney. The walk can be broken into distances and times of one’s own choosing and may be walked in either direction south from Palm Beach or north from Cronulla. There is no need to do the whole walk and a visitor can just access any part of the coastal walk they choose to experience either for a few metres or a few kilometres. For full details information and brochures see details for walks including Harbour Bridge to South Head & Clovelly and Clovelly to Cronulla. There are additional details available for Sydney Harbour coastline walks.
 * Coogee Bowling and Tennis Club - a popular place to play social tennis or an afternoon of bowling. The tennis club also has space to host parties.
 * Gordon's Bay - (Also has a local nickname, Thomo's, the origin of which appears to be unknown.) A small rocky inlet just north of Coogee Beach, accessed from the cliff walk, popular for snorkeling. There is an underwater snorkel trail there for the adventurous.
 * Randwick Rugby - Coogee is the location of the home ground of Randwick Rugby Union Club, one of the main teams in the Sydney rugby union football competition. Alternate weekends see Randwick and an opposing team battle it out on Coogee Oval, just over the road from the beach - a great way to spend a winter afternoon.
 * Randwick Rugby - Coogee is the location of the home ground of Randwick Rugby Union Club, one of the main teams in the Sydney rugby union football competition. Alternate weekends see Randwick and an opposing team battle it out on Coogee Oval, just over the road from the beach - a great way to spend a winter afternoon.

Commercial Centres

 * Randwick Junction. Major junction in Sydney's South-Eastern Suburbs connecting Coogee Beach and is the home of The Randwick City Council Administration and Town Hall. Main road is Belmore Road. Its major connection to the CBD is Alison Road.
 * Maroubra Junction. Major connection to Maroubra Beach, Sydney's largest south-eastern beach. Located around the intersection of Anzac Parade and Maroubra Road.

Shopping malls

 * Royal Randwick Shopping Centre. Shopping Centre in Randwick Junction on Belmore Road.
 * Pacific Square in Maroubra. Shopping centre located on the site of the previous 'Maroubra Mall'.
 * Southpoint in Hillsdale. Shopping centre located below the Hillsdale apartment complex called 'Southpoint'.
 * Westfield Eastgardens. Largest shopping centre in Sydney's South-Eastern Suburbs. Built on the site of the former Pagewood bus depot which was the largest shopping centre in Australia upon completion in 1987. The area around the centre became its own suburb which took on the name of the shopping centre 'Eastgardens'.

Eat

 * Burnie's at 48 Burnie Street. Fabulous breakfasts and a sublime single origin roasters coffee menu is organic and gluten free open 7 days a week for breakfast and lunch.
 * The Jilted Anchovy at 350 Clovelly Road does great pizzas.
 * The Jilted Anchovy at 350 Clovelly Road does great pizzas.

Drink

 * Around the beaches, there are many modern pubs, such as the Clovelley Hotel and Coogee Beach Palace, which serve food and alcohol, as well as having gaming facilities and live entertainment. Other large, well-renovated pubs sit a little further back from the beach, such as the Royal Hotel in Randwick, and the Doncaster Hotel in Kensington.
 * Cheaper drinks can be found at RSLs, which will always have bistros and gaming, as well as various other facilities - try Coogee RSL on Carr St.
 * Around the University of New South Wales, pubs and bars serve the student population - the campus bar serves cheap drinks, especially at Happy Hour (5-6PM, 5-7PM on Wednesday). The Regent Hotel in Kingsford is also a popular student haunt.
 * The Legion Club, with a balcony (with high glass) overlooking Coogee beach the Legion has long been the secret watering hole of Coogee locals. Cheap drinks and a relaxed atmosphere, midweek trivia and live music at weekends the legion is an attractive alternative to people of all ages.
 * The Legion Club, with a balcony (with high glass) overlooking Coogee beach the Legion has long been the secret watering hole of Coogee locals. Cheap drinks and a relaxed atmosphere, midweek trivia and live music at weekends the legion is an attractive alternative to people of all ages.
 * The Legion Club, with a balcony (with high glass) overlooking Coogee beach the Legion has long been the secret watering hole of Coogee locals. Cheap drinks and a relaxed atmosphere, midweek trivia and live music at weekends the legion is an attractive alternative to people of all ages.

Sleep
Hotels and hostels are available throughout the South-Eastern Suburbs. Coogee Beach is one of the main areas for backpacker and budget accommodation in Sydney.

Stay healthy
For a serious medical emergency you should call 000 from any phone for immediate attention of the emergency services.

The Prince of Wales Hospital is the major Public Hospital servicing the Eastern suburbs. It is on a large Randwick campus which also incorporates The Prince of Wales Private Hospital, The Royal Hospital for Women and Sydney Children’s Hospital with The University of New South Wales located on an adjoining campus.

Public hospital emergency departments are open 24 hours a day, including public holidays.

203.49.228.129 07:21, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Merge "South Eastern Suburbs" content back into the Eastern Suburbs page
Re: Sydney/Eastern suburbs vs Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs

The Eastern Suburbs is generally recognised (e.g. by government sources like the ABS) as stretching all the way south to La Perouse. And the "South Eastern Suburbs" are generally not a well recognised region - at best they are a subregion of the Eastern Suburbs.

There was a lengthy debate about this around April 2023 at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Suburbs_(Sydney). The resolution was that the "South Eastern Suburbs" page was considered original research and its content was merged back into the main Eastern Suburbs page. I propose that the same should be done here.

It is somewhat perplexing and eye raising that the South Eastern Suburbs page at Wikivoyage was created shortly after the debate at Wikipedia had ended...

cc @LibStar Daceyvillain (talk) 04:24, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

 * Note that at Wikivoyage, 203.49.228.129 aka Voyage2023 is the same anonymous IP who lost the debate at Wikipedia, and whose IP was temporarily banned from editing Wikipedia.
 * cc @SHB2000 Daceyvillain (talk) 04:29, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * There are lots more examples at Wikipedia, but are a few key examples of government maps which recognise the "Eastern Suburbs" as reaching La Perouse, and which don't recognise the "South Eastern Suburbs" at all
 * https://abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/118
 * https://www.seslhd.health.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/groups/PICH/Priority%20Populations/Eastern%20Suburbs_SESLHD_2016%20Census.pdf
 * https://www.randwick.nsw.gov.au/about-us/news/news-items/2016/march/a-new-eastern-sydney-council
 * For example, "Eastern Suburbs Memorial Park" is located at Port Botany at the very southern end of the Eastern Suburbs Daceyvillain (talk) 04:37, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * +1 as per my response on Talk:Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 05:45, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I have merged the South Eastern Suburbs content back into the Eastern Suburbs page. Could you take a look, and then delete the South Eastern Suburbs page?
 * Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs
 * Cheers Daceyvillain (talk) 22:40, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Added a redirect
 * https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Sydney/South-Eastern_Suburbs&redirect=no Daceyvillain (talk) 23:43, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, thanks for doing the merge! Unfortunately, I've been a bit busy with exams so could not get to doing so myself. As for the redirect, I would prefer to keep it purely for attribution purposes, as deleting the redirect would also delete the page history. Cheers, -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 08:09, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Two Separate Articles
The initial purpose of creating a separate South-Eastern Suburbs page was to declutter the large Eastern Suburbs page. Upon doing some googling it is true that government references to the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney are Watsons Bay to La Perouse and appear to be only councils of Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick. Colloquially however people in suburbs like Daceyville, Pagewood and Eastgardens etc also identify with being within this area even though it looks like the council of Bayside isn't included in Sydney's East according to government maps (I would have thought at least some of Bayside is still Eastern Suburbs).

Regardless of this, this is a travel guide and the regions have been broken down into six categories for Sydney's East to make it easier for tourists to understand because obviously it doesn't make much sense to say Maroubra is Eastern Suburbs but Eastgardens is not the Eastern Suburbs just because of the government councils. This is a travel guide to help tourists understand the areas a bit better in ways that perhaps government maps can't. I have no issue with merging everything onto the one Eastern Suburbs page it just becomes a very large clutter page that makes it harder for travellers to understand which was where the sub categories came into play. Obviously a tourist isn't going to visit places like Watsons Bay and La Perouse on the same day.

I just genuinely hope that the two articles that were reorganised are now merged for the right reasons in order to help build a travel guide and not just to copy and paste information from Wikipedia onto Wikivoyage just for the same of arguments happening on another website. Traveller comes first. Voyage2023 (talk) 00:14, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

 * The initial purpose of the separate South-Eastern Suburbs page was for you to push your personal agenda after you lost a lengthy argument (on a facts basis i.e. the facts did not back you up) on Wikipedia.
 * For tourists, the separate page is not helpful. The "South Eastern Suburbs" is a rarely used and confusing term. If a tourist is staying in the Eastern Suburbs, say in Maroubra, they may not realise that in order to learn about things to do, see or eat then they will have visit a second page you made for the so called "South Eastern Suburbs". Daceyvillain (talk) 00:39, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I have never edited on Wikipedia and like I said I'm not opposed to the merging of the two articles so long as it is coherent. Voyage2023 (talk) 00:41, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You have been using the same IP address(es) to edit Wikipedia, Wikivoyage and Wikitravel, at roughly the same time, about the same esoteric topic (creating a new page for the "South Eastern Suburbs"). Daceyvillain (talk) 00:43, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I think you have me confused with someone else :) I assure you I've never edited on Wikipedia before and I don't really want to be involved in arguments happening on Wikipedia that are now spilling over onto Wikivoyage. I'm just here to build a travel guide like everyone else and I hope you're here to do the same. You seem very invested in the topic. Voyage2023 (talk) 00:55, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * You have been using the same IP addresses to push the same agenda in multiple places. I don’t think lying about this now is going to help. Daceyvillain (talk) 01:03, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Shall we request a CU check on Meta to resolve this issue, then? -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 12:28, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
 * That sounds like a good idea.
 * For example, at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Central_Sydney_Districts.png, Mapper2000 is 203.49.228.129 (i.e. Mapper2000 is voting for their own request using an alias)
 * There is a list of other IPs used by Mapper2000 (aka Voyage2023) here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive1124
 * If you search for 203.49.228.129 you will find the right section Daceyvillain (talk) 14:17, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

Removed Maps?
Why were the Eastern Sydney Maps removed from the page? They were useful and descriptive in providing an outline and breakdown of Sydney's Eastern Suburbs which made it easier for travelers to understand the region. There was nothing controversial about them, they're geography and municipality based. I understand that perhaps government maps do not include any part of Bayside Council as being eastern suburbs but suburbs like eastgardens and botany are still definitely connected to the region with nothing to properly separate them into a different part of Sydney altogether. Removing the maps is not constructive. Can we please put these back;

Voyage2023 (talk) 09:56, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
 * File:Sydney Inner City & Eastern Suburbs Regions.jpg
 * File:Eastern Sydney Districts and Suburbs Map.png

 * The maps were removed because they were purposefully inaccurate (as intended by your alias Mapper2000). I agree that if we had an accurate map then it would be useful to post it. Daceyvillain (talk) 14:11, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Aside from your ludicrous assumptions that I'm Mapper2000 and that I'm also allegedly editing Wikipedia. What dare I ask is inaccurate about the maps? Should Botany-Eastgardens not be included in your definition of the eastern suburbs? Do these maps not correlate with perhaps your view of what is and isn't Sydney's east? At this point I feel there should be a discussion as to whether or not the maps remain on the page as we work on consensus here. @SHB2000 What do you think? Voyage2023 (talk) 08:08, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * At this point I'm too worn out by this debate (+ some unrelated Commons gobbledegook) to ever contribute something meaningful to it. I'll accept whatever the consensus says. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 08:10, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * We already had this debate on Wikipedia and reached a consensus there. We should use the same definition here
 * https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Suburbs_(Sydney) Daceyvillain (talk) 08:29, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * In particular the “South Eastern Suburbs” was deemed Original Research because it was not used in the vast majority of government maps of the area and so we should not use that term anywhere Daceyvillain (talk) 08:31, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Here are three examples of government maps which Mapper2000 just continues to ignore
 * https://abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/118 https://www.seslhd.health.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/groups/PICH/Priority%20Populations/Eastern%20Suburbs_SESLHD_2016%20Census.pdf https://www.randwick.nsw.gov.au/about-us/news/news-items/2016/march/a-new-eastern-sydney-council
 * And if you ask most commercial services (like Google Maps or realestate.com.au) to define the Eastern Suburbs, they basically use a union of the three maps above. Sometimes even more areas are included. But the Eastern Sububs is never ever rendered as just the tip of the peninsula, which is what Mapper2000 aka Voyage2023 aka … keeps trying to do in their fake maps Daceyvillain (talk) 08:35, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Voyage2023, we already know that you are Mapper2000 and Traveller2000 and various other IPs, so you should drop the pretense. It isn’t helpful Daceyvillain (talk) 08:19, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I am willing to request a Commons CU check if that's what is needed to settle the debate, though. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 08:25, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * @Daceyvillain I'm happy to start a discussion to reach consensus on this issue but before we do it would be good if we could resolve this and I think for clarity I'd like to address the real reason why you've come over from Wikipedia to Wikivoyage. Reading all your posts and edits I'd just like to ask whether you've come on Wikivoyage because you genuinely care about building a travel guide or are you here for something else? You keep saying the maps are misleading and inaccurate but it seems like this has just turned into a witch hunt because you have a vendetta over what's currently happening on Wikipedia. Just because you're currently involved in arguments with Mapper2000 on Wikipedia doesn't mean everyone is Mapper2000. Specifically when you say the maps are misleading and inaccurate could you please elaborate on that and explain exactly what it is about them that is wrong? Voyage2023 (talk) 18:59, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I already have many times (see above for recent examples)
 * The fact that you use multiple accounts on each site you visit in order to promote your own agenda is alarming.
 * Yesterday I realised you are using multiple accounts on Quora as well to answer your own self serving “questions” and vote for your own answers
 * You are not acting with integrity. You are using at least 6 usernames as well as using various IPs to push a agenda which you know is not well supported by facts or common usage. Daceyvillain (talk) 22:21, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You haven't answered my question you've just reiterated that you're here for a witch hunt with a vendetta. Explain properly what about the maps is wrong please. Voyage2023 (talk) 00:20, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I have already explained hundreds of times, including on this page if you scroll up.
 * But because you are a troll you are pretending to be ignorant of the truth.
 * On all of your maps, you are making the Eastern Suburbs tiny, but on the vast majority of government and commercial maps the Eastern Suburbs are huge.
 * And the term “South Eastern Suburbs” is rarely if ever used on maps, except on all of your fake maps.
 * Please stop uploading fake maps onto the internet and creating multiple personalities to promote your strange agenda. Daceyvillain (talk) 00:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * So you're saying that you're only gripe with the maps is just the fact that the southern portion of the eastern suburbs has the title 'south-eastern suburbs'? Even though it clearly says south-eastern suburbs. I did digging on government definitions of the eastern suburbs and it's only Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick, they don't include any part of Bayside Council so these maps make the entire eastern suburbs region larger than government maps, not smaller. Does Botany not fit your criteria for Sydney's eastern suburbs? Do you think the eastern suburbs should just be the government definition of Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick and if so, what region would Botany then be put under for Wikivoyage? What solution do you propose? Voyage2023 (talk) 01:03, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You continually ignore government maps like the ones already posted on this page. We already had this debate on Wikipedia and you lost because you had no supporting evidence.
 * Given your disregard for government maps I’m sure your maps are inaccurate in other ways (e.g. the earlier maps controversy you caused on Commons).
 * Your biggest problem is that due to your use of multiple accounts to attack other people and support your own opinion, we can’t trust anything that you say or do Daceyvillain (talk) 02:27, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * You already know that Botany is often included in maps of the Eastern Suburbs, but here is another example of a government map which explicitly includes it
 * https://www.seslhd.health.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/groups/PICH/Priority%20Populations/Eastern%20Suburbs_SESLHD_2016%20Census.pdf Daceyvillain (talk) 02:30, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * For a second can we stop with the paranoia and assumptions of who's whom. All you're doing is being aggressive and repeatedly bringing up the arguments currently happening on Wikipedia which ultimately have nothing to do with Wikivoyage but you're avoiding what I've asked. Let's keep discussions here relevant to the page, which is why we're all here. What is wrong with the maps? What do you feel needs to be changed? Because I'm not understanding your point. Voyage2023 (talk) 03:07, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * The page history and IPs used show that you are all the same person so you can stop pretending otherwise Daceyvillain (talk) 03:50, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Consensus - Do The Maps Stay or Go?
Consensus as to whether or not the two maps are supported to remain on the eastern suburbs page. The two maps in question being:

 * File:Sydney Inner City & Eastern Suburbs Regions.jpg
 * File:Eastern Sydney Districts and Suburbs Map.png

Discussion
Voyage2023 (talk) 03:41, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * – Keep both maps on page as they aren't doing any harm and are a useful tool in order to break down and understand Sydney's eastern suburbs and bordering areas. Travellers and tourists who are unfamiliar with the area would get an easier understanding of the region overall with the map's district structure. To remove the maps is not constructive. The alternative to structuring the page with government maps as it is on Wikipedia wouldn't make much sense as it would be to create a map of only Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick Councils with the district structure purely being the three councils themselves which is something a traveller or tourist could simply google and wouldn't need to visit Wikivoyage for. This would then also mean having to leave out Botany and Eastgardens from the eastern suburbs page as they are part of Bayside Council which government maps do not include in the eastern suburbs, which also doesn't make much sense as Eastgardens is a prominent shopping centre in Sydney's eastern suburbs that deserves to be on the page.

 * Voyage2023 / Mapper2000 and their other aliases and IPs should be banned (again) for ignoring the vast majority of official sources and wasting everyone‘s time (again) Daceyvillain (talk) 03:52, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * And your comments above don’t make any sense. Government maps do often include Bayside in the Eastern Suburbs but you just keep ignoring government maps. Botany council (half of what is now called Bayside) also had a longstanding plan to merge with Randwick Council which will probably happen one day.
 * See https://www.seslhd.health.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/groups/PICH/Priority%20Populations/Eastern%20Suburbs_SESLHD_2016%20Census.pdf as an example map which has already been shared multiple times on this page and in other discussions, but you just choose to always ignore it because it doesn’t fit your strange agenda. Daceyvillain (talk) 04:00, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I think this where I'm going stop indulging this insanity.
 * Firstly; This discussion was started for the sake of consensus for you to add whether you support or oppose the maps remaining on the page, not for you to keep replying to me with your aggressive paranoia.
 * Secondly; I just googled 'Bayside Council Eastern Suburbs' and literally all I found were these two sources that say Bayside Council is a southern and south-eastern suburbs council and compromises a portion of southern sydney and eastern sydney which is exactly what the Wikimedia maps we're discussing say:
 * https://profile.id.com.au/baysidensw/about
 * https://www.bayside.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2019-08/Information%20Guide%20Bayside%20Council.pdf
 * Again I'm still unclear on what exactly your issue with the maps is whether the maps show the eastern suburbs to be too big or too small. I hand on heart could not find a single map nor government source that put Bayside Council in the eastern suburbs with Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick. Every and all government sources say eastern suburbs is just Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick Councils and that there was once a plan to apparently merge those three together which got scrapped, but never Randwick and Botany as you believe, Botany got merged with Rockdale in 2017:
 * https://www.bayside.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/2017-11/Administrator%20s%20End%20of%20Term%20Report.pdf
 * https://www.yoursay.randwick.nsw.gov.au/amalgamation
 * https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/wentworth-courier/state-government-set-to-scrap-forced-amalgamations-including-eastern-suburbs-merger/news-story/6c0b823953313294e49b79f622f2439f
 * Thirdly; I simply googled 'Sydney's eastern suburbs' and this is literally all the government sources that came up (not a single one has Bayside Council):
 * https://abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/118
 * https://economy.id.com.au/sydney-eastern-suburbs
 * https://www.sydney.com/destinations/sydney/sydney-east
 * https://www.visitsydneyaustralia.com.au/eastern-suburbs.html
 * https://profile.id.com.au/randwick
 * https://profile.id.com.au/waverley
 * https://profile.id.com.au/woollahra
 * https://abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/community-profiles/2021/11802
 * https://abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/11801
 * https://www.transport.nsw.gov.au/projects/current-projects/cbd-and-south-east-light-rail
 * https://transitmap.net/sydney-eastern-buses/
 * https://transportnsw.info/document/5669/south_east_network_map_05122021.pdf
 * Obviously this is Wikivoyage and not Wikipedia to which you are clearly accustomed so government citation doesn't mean much here but nothing you're saying is coherent if I'm honest and you seem to enjoy providing links to prove whatever it is you're trying to prove so I thought I'd provide some links to add some reality to this discussion. So I'm still confused by what you want, are you saying Bayside Council should be included on the maps the way it is or you're saying it should be removed from the maps because the government definition of the eastern suburbs is limited to just Woollahra, Waverley and Randwick. I'm happy to continue to have Botany and Eastgardens on this page regardless of them being in Bayside Council even if it officially isn't considered eastern suburbs by the government because this is not Wikipedia but I'm still unclear as to whether or not you have a problem with that?
 * After googling sydney's eastern suburbs and going through those sources I once more fail to see what is wrong with the Wikimedia maps and what exactly you're trying to achieve on Wikivoyage aside from your witch hunt you've brought over from Wikipedia. I don't think you fully understand why you're here either as you haven't really contributed positively to Wikivoyage nor have you provided a logical point to whatever it is your crusade is about. For the sake of sanity I'm actually going to stop engaging in your mania because with all due respect I think you have a screw loose which isn't doing me, yourself nor Wikivoyage any good. Voyage2023 (talk) 06:03, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Voyage2023 / Mapper2000 / Traveller2000 / anon IP —
 * You have been on a crusade for over 6 months now, ignoring government maps like these below, as well as ignoring common sense and common usage, to try to limit maps and discussions of the Eastern Suburbs to just the very top of the eastern peninsula. You have have used multiple accounts and multiple anonymous IP edits to try to win arguments by attacking other people and by secretly replying in support of yourself, which is an act of zero integrity and goes against the guidelines of all the platforms which you are trying to influence (Wikipedia, Commons, Wikivoyage, Wikitravel, Quora, Reddit, …). You have a strange obsession with trying to redefine the Eastern Suburbs to be a tiny area, and I struggle to understand your motivations, other than as some form of weird and misguided classism.
 * https://abs.gov.au/census/find-census-data/quickstats/2021/118
 * https://www.seslhd.health.nsw.gov.au/sites/default/files/groups/PICH/Priority%20Populations/Eastern%20Suburbs_SESLHD_2016%20Census.pdf
 * https://www.randwick.nsw.gov.au/about-us/news/news-items/2016/march/a-new-eastern-sydney-council Daceyvillain (talk) 07:18, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I agree that it looks weird for the Eastern suburbs to include just Woollahra and Waverley – they can be their own region if the page does get very long, but a split the way it was is a bit abnormal, to say the least. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 08:18, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I honestly think the only reason Mapper2000 (and alias) made their maps was to draw the Eastern Suburbs as a small area. They went to so much effort, I don't understand it.
 * Anyway, obviously your call on what to do if the page gets long, but just be aware that Mapper2000 (etc) is on a crusade to define the Eastern Suburbs as only a small area. They have spent hundreds of hours trying to do that all over the internet (at Wikipedia, Wikivoyage, Wikitravel, Quora, Reddit, ...). Daceyvillain (talk) 09:10, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I mean, this page isn't even that long to be subdivided just yet, and I'd prefer if it were done how I proposed it on User:SHB2000/ES, not how it's done on Mapper2000's maps. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:18, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Right, using council boundaries makes more sense. But note that the councils (Woollahra, Waverley, Randwick and Botany) almost merged to form a supercouncil for the Eastern Suburbs a few years ago, and that might happen for real in the future. So the council boundaries would be gone then.
 * eg https://amp.smh.com.au/national/nsw/randwick-mayor-ted-seng-backs-merger-with-waverley-woollahra-20150513-gh0kil.html
 * "Of seven options explored by the Randwick Council, a merger between Waverley, Woollahra, Randwick and Botany was found to offer the highest opportunity to deliver more services." Daceyvillain (talk) 09:42, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed – and for the places that do need their own articles, like Bondi or Maroubra, already have their own articles. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:55, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, they are at it again...
 * User:Voyage2023/Sydney/South-Eastern Suburbs
 * https://wikitravel.org/en/User:Traveller2000/Sydney/South-Eastern_Suburbs Daceyvillain (talk) 14:54, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * What happens on Wikitravel is irrelevant. Please do not mention it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:10, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

= Map =

Here is my attempt at a map of the Eastern Suburbs. The M1 Motorway becomes much easier to cross in Surry Hills, and it is gone/underground by the time Darlinghurst begins, so the boundary there is a bit fuzzy.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_the_Eastern_Suburbs_of_Sydney,_Australia.jpg

Daceyvillain (talk) 05:54, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

 * It's a great map, but please add the source of the map under the " " on Commons. I do believe we cover Moore Park under Sydney/City East on Wikivoyage, though (I guess that's because Moore Park is in CoS while Randwick is not), which will need to be fixed (part of the "fuzzy" territory). -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 06:00, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Re: more source info, done
 * Re: City East page, it looks like Paddington is listed there as well, but Paddington is more commonly considered as Eastern Suburbs I think... maybe listing Moore Park and Paddington on both pages is fine? Daceyvillain (talk) 07:31, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but on Wikivoyage we explicitly cover Paddington and Moore Park on Sydney/City East because it makes more sense from a traveller's perspective. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 08:37, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Though I guess there is a case for Paddington since it is outside CoS boundaries. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 08:38, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sydney/Eastern suburbs


text:
Talk:Sydney/Harbour Islands

Former islands
Should we include the other former islands? Berry, Darling and Glebe? (WT-en) JRG 09:07, 24 August 2009 (EDT)

 * Glebe Island is distinctly in the area we are calling Sydney/Inner West, and it really in no way resembles an island, and it is a block of concrete, so on all three counts I don't really think it rates a mention at all.  Although if they end up building a Disneyland there, I'll have to eat my words.  Darling Island is a destination, but it is best covered in Sydney/City West, because it is adjacent and accessible from there.  Maybe a reference in the Get out section would be a good idea.  I've never heard of Berry Island, just read the write up on the North Sydney council site, and it sounds like a destination.  Probably best covered in Sydney/Lower North Shore though, as it appears quite easily accessible from there.   Again, a reference in Get out, or a Understand section may add interest.  --(WT-en) inas 19:19, 24 August 2009 (EDT)
 * Whether we include them there or not they should still be linked here due to the names. (WT-en) JRG 08:01, 27 August 2009 (EDT)
 * We shouldn't describe or link to a block of concrete just because it was separated by a narrow stretch of water 100 years ago. When someone writes the description of Glebe Island as a visitor attraction of any kind, then sure we can link to it. This is interesting history but we need to be careful we don't stray into encyclopaedic stuff here  --(WT-en) inas 16:40, 27 August 2009 (EDT)

 * I've mentioned all three in Get Out, with links where appropriate. --(WT-en) inas 19:00, 27 August 2009 (EDT)
 * Good work. I'm happy with that. We don't need to mention any more. (WT-en) JRG 02:22, 12 September 2009 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Sydney/Harbour Islands


text:
Talk:Sydney/Lower North Shore

Proposal to make North Sydney Lower North Shore, and merge most of this content into that article. Currently the two cover much of the same area. See Talk:Sydney --(WT-en) inas 01:44, 6 August 2009 (EDT)

Just to let you ppl know, your article seems a bit lacking how it pretty much says the North Shore ends at Chatswood. I live just a bit further than that and nobody's ever told me that I'm not actually from the North Shore. Most people around Sydney would regard it as ending at either Turramurra or Wahroonga. I would agree with the Lower North Shore ending at Chatswood.

 * Well, actually this article is for the the Sydney/Lower North Shore and it does end at Chatswood, where we have the Sydney/Upper North Shore going from there all the way up to Hornsby and beyond. But, if you have an interest in Sydney district, please join the discussion at Talk:Sydney, we can always use a hand.  --(WT-en) inas 05:35, 9 May 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Sydney/Lower North Shore


text:
Talk:Sydney/Manly

Retain as separate article
Strongly disagree with suggestion that this article be merged with Northern Beaches. Manly is a destination in its own right, and it easily passes the "Can you sleep there?" test. Having Manly listings integrated with listings for the whole district would make it distinctly less useful for the many (majority?) of travellers who intend to visit only Manly itself. (WT-en) Ian Page 20:30, 19 October 2011 (EDT)

 * I've made a point over at Talk:Sydney --(WT-en) inas 23:12, 19 October 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Sydney/Manly


text:
Talk:Sydney/Northern Beaches

Suburbs and Districts
As per the Sydney districts current consensus, I think suburbs entries that exist just for their beaches, shoudl have the information moved here, until there is a reason or detailed required for a full artcie. The suburbs of Sydney/Manly and Sydney/Palm each are obviously major attractions, and should obviously have their own artciles. Any other suburbs deserve this treatment at the moment? --(WT-en) Inas 04:00, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

Cleanup
I just saw the discussion above from 2008.

I think that owing to the lack of work given to fixing the Beach articles, it makes sense to leave beaches in their respective suburbs for now, whilst leaving this article as an extra region under where they can all be grouped. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 11:01, 10 December 2014 (UTC)

region has got too big now...
I propose to split this up in the north and south sections, the area has become too big, and this article is very Manly biased, and not Mona Vale or Avalon centred. So, may we split this up for the benefit of travellers, and for more equal coverage? If split, then I propose we name them to Sydney/North Northern Beaches and Sydney/South Northern Beaches. All opinions welcomeSHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 13:11, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sydney/Northern Beaches


text:
Talk:Sydney/Northern Districts

Merge/Move
Please join the discussion at Talk:Sydney about the proposed district map for Sydney.

title: Talk:Sydney/Northern Districts


text:
Talk:Sydney/North Sydney

Districts
We have Sydney/North Shore and Sydney/North Sydney covering much the same area currently. My thinking is that North Sydney shuold refer to the North Sydney, Milsons Point, and Kirriblli and areas like Mosman, Cremorne, Neutral Bay, etc should be covered in North Short (until they are expanded to the extent that they may need their own articles. --(WT-en) Inas 18:02, 3 November 2008 (EST)
 * Just pick one and merge :>. Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 18:17, 3 November 2008 (EST).
 * North Sydney, as a commercial centre, is one of the largest in Australia, so likely does deserve an entry of its own. The difficulty is that there is also a North Sydney local government area, that takes in some of the surrounding suburbs, with no particular logic applied.  There are also neighbouring suburbs, like Milsons Point, and possibly even McMahons Point, Kirribilli, and possibly even Waverton, that although distinct suburbs, the traveller may not be able to distinguish them.  Its also possible that North Sydney has a "sphere of imfluence", taking in even more of the North Shore.   I see those as being the four choices for this article, and I'm in favour of the third, that is just the suburb, and the surrounding areas that are indistinguishable to the traveller from the suburb.  The only problem with this, is that it is a subjective assessment for each editor, whereas if we used the local government area (which it seems to be would make least sense to the traveller) if has a strict boundary.   --(WT-en) Inas 18:54, 3 November 2008 (EST)
 * I think it like sounds like North Syd is very important and it overhangs into the 'Shore, heh. So I think you should keep the North Syd and delete the N.S. one and merge it into this one, because, like you said ,there is a lot of duplicate information.  I don't know if I am even helping at all.  Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 19:01, 3 November 2008 (EST).

 * Current proposal at Talk:Sydney is for this to merge into a new Sydney/Lower North Shore article. --(WT-en) inas 22:09, 5 August 2009 (EDT)

 * Rebooting this discussion after 5 years :)
 * Basically I can't tell from the Sydney discussion what the decision around North Sydney was. As it stands Sydney/Lower_North_Shore and this article completely overlap.
 * Moreover, I believe that Lower North Shore is the correct size for an article. North Sydney is actually fairly empty outside the attraction of Luna Park.
 * I am proposing to merge these articles. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 03:05, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sydney/North Sydney


text:
Talk:Sydney/Hills District

Would this be better called simply Sydney/Hills? As that is what the external website suggests. - (WT-en) Huttite 15:50, 9 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Article merge/move
As per the discussion currently taking place in Talk:Sydney, in the district model for Sydney, this article will be merged/renamed to Sydney/Northwestern Sydney. Please join the discussion there. --(WT-en) Inas 23:57, 19 February 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Sydney/Hills District


text:
Talk:Sydney/Outer West

Where is the Outer West?
The Outer West, in the main Sydney article is the area west of Parramatta and east of the Blue Mountains, so Blacktown, Penrith and surrounding areas. Richmond is a currently defined as satellite town, as is Windsor --(WT-en) Inas 00:39, 18 September 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Sydney/Outer West


text:
Talk:Sydney/Parramatta

Should this article be combined with the existing article in wikivoyage Parramatta? Seems to be a fair bit of duplication and may cause confusion.
 * Done --(WT-en) Inas 23:47, 27 October 2008 (EDT)

Auto Alley
Probably not of interest to the traveler who is not planning to buy a car. We don't generally have lists of car yards for other cities. If it is necessary, I'm suggesting we move this information to Buying or renting a car in Australia (or omit it entirely). --(WT-en) Inas 17:29, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Hotels by area..
All the hotels in the listing are within 5 minutes drive of each other, and I don't think it helps the article to separate them by area. Too many subheadings for too few hotels. I think its sufficient just to note that location in the listing.

Also, the formatting needs to be fixed, so I'll do both at the same time, unless anybody has any better ideas. --(WT-en) Inas 21:40, 23 November 2008 (EST)

 * Maybe give the area a name and list some of the hotels and describe it. Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee]  .T.A.L.K. 21:46, 23 November 2008 (EST).

 * I don't really understand what you are trying to say. Rydges Parramatta is around 2km from the Parramatta railway station.  A few minutes drive, or about 30 minutes walk.  This information deserves to be mentioned in the listing, but I don't think it needs a separate area heading just because it is this far from central. --(WT-en) Inas 22:05, 23 November 2008 (EST)

Banner

While Parramatta is Sydney's third CBD and it would make sense to have a banner of its skylines, how about a banner of the Old Government House? It's one of my favo(u)rite buildings in the region and a UNESCO World Heritage Site. -- SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 22:17, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

 * @SHB2000 - I do like the government house banner - although I still feel the existing banner is much more reflective of Parramatta to vistors. It is hard to think of a picture that shows the historic with the new however. Andrewssi2 (talk) 00:10, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah I definitely agree with you there. In restrospect, though, the current banner is quite out-of-date as many new skyscrapers have popped up in the last few years. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 08:26, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, I was thinking that today as I sat looking at this scene from my office window. I would take a picture, but my office lacks an observation deck Andrewssi2 (talk) 09:29, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
 * In hindsight, though, I'd love to see a banner of the skyline as viewed from the elevated pink freeway bridge at Granville (M4) but I don't imagine taking photos there would be easy. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:44, 13 February 2024 (UTC)
 * In hindsight, though, I'd love to see a banner of the skyline as viewed from the elevated pink freeway bridge at Granville (M4) but I don't imagine taking photos there would be easy. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:44, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sydney/Parramatta


text:
Talk:Sydney/ProblemsWithDistricts

Even allowing for the discussion above...

The existing sets of districts seem to be sourced from this page and I'm not sure that they map onto Sydney as a whole all that well.

For example, where does Fox Studios  belong? What about Centennial Park ? Southern Beaches? It seems a bit unlikely to me. And those districts are really focused on the centre of the city. Where is the Sutherland Shire? Where is the region west of the North Shore that includes the Northern train line and Macquarie University?

I think we need to break up the Outer West and South West into a few more divisions, add a district for the Randwick area (whatever it's called), and a few more. Anyone want to come up with a slightly more fine-grained set of districts? -- (WT-en) Hypatia 15:30, 14 Sep 2004 (EDT)

title: Talk:Sydney/ProblemsWithDistricts


text:
Talk:Sydney/Refactoring

'''Note that the current consensus on the Sydney hierachy is on Talk:Sydney.

Discussion
First up, reasons why I did the proposal this way:
 * 1) (WT-en) Evan's and (WT-en) Mark's comments in various places (on London in the pub, for example) made it sound like we were misusing districts. We were imagining huge swathes of Sydney as part of a single district, whereas a district is really meant to be a neighbourhood, like the Haight in San Francisco, which is about ten blocks.
 * 2) Sydney really does cover a huge land area and there's quite a lot to see in it, together with an enormous population probably justifying the use of several regions, even if it takes a while to fill in some of the cities. As a friend in the US pointed out to me, Sydney is more like the Bay Area than it is like San Francisco.
 * 3) The existing districts structure seems really unbalanced, with some areas of Sydney (like the Sutherland area) entirely missing, and some of the districts covering a single suburbs, like Darling Harbour and Darlinghurst, but others covering an enormous number, like the Outer West.
 * 4) With different parts of Sydney as different city articles, we can focus on completing the major tourist areas without feeling like we're leaving a city article incomplete.
 * 5) (WT-en) Pjamescowie feels that there are suburbs (like Manly) that really justify their own article. And I agreed, but it was very weird to be linking to a city article like Manly from a district article like Sydney/Northern Beaches -- wikivoyage's hierachy has no mechanism for entire cities being within districts. (Which makes sense, if districts are meant to be small.)

I used local government boundaries primarily because they're a good way of making sure we didn't miss anything. New South Wales has had this problem a few times, with Lithgow and Dubbo being left entirely out of the set of regions given. Potential problems with using local government boundaries:
 * 1) Some of the names are badly known: Bondi (part of Waverly) is far better known than Waverly, and inhabitants of the Lower North Shore only know that they live in Willoughby when they vote in council elections.
 * 2) Some of the local government areas overlap names with a suburb: so Parramatta is a well known suburb that is part of Parramatta the local government area. There is some potential for Parramatta/Parramatta weirdness.
 * 3) Individual suburbs are still technically a bit large to write up as districts if we interpret the guidelines strictly. In some ways, each suburb of Sydney ought to be an article. But while there are some suburbs that absolutely justify this (Manly, Bondi, Newtown) there are many that are purely residential. (A North Ryde article would be pretty short.) So I figured that when suburbs deserved their own writeup, a district page would work.

There's still some ways Sydney doesn't really work as a region: few travellers think of it that way; and few Sydneysiders (at least in Inner Sydney) think of it that way.

I'd really appreciate feedback on:
 * whether this proposal works (of course!)
 * potential alternative names for the regions
 * whether naming after council areas is really sensible

Thanks -- (WT-en) Hypatia 05:29, 8 Oct 2004 (EDT)

Some possible amalgamations: -- (WT-en) Hypatia 13:33, 10 Oct 2004 (EDT)
 * Mosman and North Sydney into North Sydney
 * Woollahara, Waverly and Randwick into Eastern Suburbs (Sydney)
 * Leichhardt and Marrackville into Inner West (Sydney)
 * Lane Cove and Willoughby into Lower North Shore (Sydney)

-- (WT-en) Hypatia 13:35, 10 Oct 2004 (EDT)
 * Warringah and Pittwater into Northern Beaches (Sydney)

Possible renaming:
 * Ku-ring-gai to Upper North Shore (Sydney) -- (WT-en) Hypatia 13:38, 10 Oct 2004 (EDT)

Hi there. As a long-time contributor to Sydney, thanks for inviting my opinion on this matter. I think a number of things: 1. that we need to accept flexibility in naming locales - given the geographical complexity of Sydney, "one size won't fit all" in creating district / suburb names - sometimes local council names will work, sometimes they don't (redirects will probably take care of any ambiguities); 2. that we must avoid creating a 3+ level hierarchy of articles within one city - we need to preserve a fairly flat structure; 3. that we don't need to create a page for everything immediately (there are some parts of Sydney that don't really warrant coverage)....

Just as an example, I don't think we need to create a separate region page for Sydney (City) within Sydney (top) - all of the various City / CBD+ districts can be created as needed and subsumed within a summary page (and a simple list on the main article page) without resorting to an elaborate hierarchy that will create confusion and potential argument.

What we need, I think, is something like this for the city centre (as an example):

Sydney (main)

a summary page and main page list called City (as in "I'm going into the City today".... a fairly common expression in Sydney that everyone would understand as meaning the CBD and immediately nearby)

a series of Sydney/.... articles that can be listed on the Sydney/City page and on the main page within a Districts sub-heading BUT without an intermediate hierarchy page (we don't need / want Sydney/City/Circular Quay, for example; rather, simply Sydney/Circular Quay):

I foresee continuing difficulties, however.... Where do the Domain and the Botanical Gardens fit in, for example? This could really be open to argument.... Oh well, let's keep talking..... (WT-en) Pjamescowie 17:21, 10 Oct 2004 (EDT)

I'm a bit averse to "some parts of Sydney aren't worth visiting" arguments. Sure, if someone was coming to see the sights of Sydney I wouldn't recommend the Camden area as a must see. On the other hand, wikivoyage will presumably also be used at some point by people who are visiting an area because they have friends, family or work there, and thus have sufficient motivation to be there, and just want information on where to eg get a motel room, and a nice place for a drink.

In any case, I wasn't thinking of creating all the articles, just all the links. :)

Wikivoyage style on "embedded" districts seems to vary a lot: New York (city) has three levels.

Sydney's problem is that it is (as wikipedia points out) a simply enormous land area for a city of its size.

Another is that there definitely are missing districts. There's a few attractions I want to write up in the Sutherland Shire for example, but it isn't there...

The way you seem to be moving would be something like:

 * Sydney
 * Sydney/City linking to (if/when needed):
 * Sydney/The Rocks
 * Sydney/Circular Quay
 * [Sydney/Northern Beaches] linking to (if needed):
 * Sydney/Manly
 * Sydney/Palm Beach

That's probably a better idea than mine, but I would like to rework the top level structure a little at least.

Proposal for top level in this scheme:

Preserve existing:
 * Sydney/City
 * Sydney/Eastern Suburbs
 * Sydney/Northern Beaches
 * Sydney/North Sydney
 * Sydney/North Shore (a division into Upper and Lower may be warranted at some future time
 * Sydney/Hills District (if someone can tell me what that means)
 * Sydney/Inner West
 * Sydney/Outer West
 * Sydney/South West

Start moving some of the smaller districts linked from the front page into being linked from those articles (Darlinghurst and Kings Cross maybe into Eastern Suburbs)

Add: and: -- (WT-en) Hypatia 05:17, 11 Oct 2004 (EDT)
 * Sydney/Sutherland
 * Sydney/Hornsby or similar for the area to the north of the North Shore.

Original proposal by User:(WT-en) Hypatia
Note: current consensus is on Talk:Sydney, this is an archived copy of the original proposal

Ok, if districts are really meant to be local neighbourhoods rather than suburbs or collections of suburbs, then Sydney's current districts are way too big. Hence, this proposal for considering Sydney as a number of cities based on local government divisions, with much of the existing work on Sydney actually fitting nicely into Inner Sydney or whatever that region would be called.

Please comment on this as much as you like on Talk:Sydney/Refactoring. I'll discuss the reasons I chose this particular representation there rather than here -- (WT-en) Hypatia 05:04, 8 Oct 2004 (EDT)

Initial proposal based on local government boundaries (I used this map of Outer Sydney for every region except Inner Sydney, this map of Inner Sydney, and this City of Sydney map for the Sydney (city) districts:

 * Sydney or possibly Sydney (metropolitan) or Sydney (region): a region page for the Sydney metropolitan area extending from the Royal National Park in the south, to the foot of the mountains in the west to Berowra in the north. People would also link to this page when they talk about "Sydney the captial city of New South Wales" or whatever. I slightly prefer just plain Sydney for this, because that's what most people call it, the use of "Sydney" to refer just to Inner Sydney or the munipality is rather specialised and travellers won't use it.
 * Inner Sydney or Inner (Sydney) or Center (Sydney): a region page for the areas of Sydney nearest to the center. Note especially that Sydney Harbour and the Sydney Harbour Bridge are really features that belong to this region rather than to any of the cities within it. The region would link to the following city pages (small/big/huge depends):
 * Sydney (city), a city page referring to the City of Sydney municipality with the following districts  assuming we have the data:
 * Sydney (city)/CBD: Central business district, skyscraper-ville, extending east into the botanical gardens and the Domain -- this is the suburb that is also called "Sydney"
 * Sydney (city)/Circular Quay: south of the harbour district including the Opera House
 * Sydney (city)/The Rocks: historical district
 * Sydney (city)/West: a district just rolled into the local area, covering Glebe, Forest Lodge, Chippendale -- anyone got a better name for this?
 * Sydney (city)/Haymarket: the Chinatown district
 * Sydney (city)/Darling Harbour: district covering Darling Harbour/Pyrmont
 * Sydney (city)/Ultimo: district covering the Ultimo/Chippendale area
 * Sydney (city)/Darlinghurst: district covering Darlinghurst
 * Sydney (city)/Woolloomooloo: district covering Potts Point and Elizabeth Bay
 * North Sydney city page referring to the area covered by the North Sydney council -- not North (Sydney) by the way, the name of the city really is North Sydney
 * Mosman city page
 * Manly city page
 * Willoughby city page: it's unfortunately they use that name, this area is far better known as the Lower North Shore
 * Lane Cove city page
 * Woollahra city page
 * Waverly city page
 * Waverly/Bondi district page almost for sure
 * Randwick city page
 * Botany Bay city page
 * Leichhardt city page
 * Leichhardt/Balmain district page if we can get the info
 * Marrackville city page
 * Marrackville/Newtown district page if we can get the info
 * Ashfield city page
 * Canada Bay city page
 * Burwood city page
 * Strathfield city page
 * Canterbury city page: this probably needs a disambig as Canterbury (Sydney)
 * Rockdale city page
 * Hurstville city page
 * Kogarah city page
 * Southern Sydney or South (Sydney) region page
 * Sutherland city page
 * Cambelltown city page
 * Camden city page
 * Western Sydney or West (Sydney) region page:
 * Bankstown city page
 * Liverpool city page, needs a disambig as Liverpool (Sydney)
 * Auburn city page
 * Parramatta city page
 * Holroyd city page
 * Fairfield city page
 * Penrith city page
 * Blacktown city page
 * Northern Sydney or North (Sydney) region page:
 * Ryde city page
 * Ku-ring-gai city page (more usually known as the Upper North Shore)
 * Warringah city page
 * Pittwater city page (often known as with east Warringah as the Northern Beaches)
 * Pittwater/Palm Beach district page at some point
 * Hornsby city page
 * Baulkham Hills city page

title: Talk:Sydney/Refactoring


text:
Talk:Sydney/Sydney Olympic Park

WatervieW Convention Centre
That's not a typo of mine, apparently it really is "WatervieW" rather than, say, "WaterView" or "Waterview" or "Water View"... (WT-en) Hypatia 21:54, 23 April 2006 (EDT)

Changing this article name to Sydney Olympic Park
This article should be renamed to Sydney Olympic Park, and a redirect placed from Homebush Bay.

This is because:
 * The signs all over Sydney direct to Sydney Olympic Park, no mention of Homebush Bay
 * The train station is called Sydney Olympic Park, no mention of Homebush Bay
 * There website for the area, and the managing authority uses Sydney Olympic Park.
 * The ferry stop is called Sydney Olympic Park.
 * The signs welcoming you to the area say Sydney Olympic Park
 * The name Sydney Olympic Park, better represents the nature of the location.

In essence, if the the traveller comes first we should not be using the political suburb names, but rather what the place is called in the eyes of the traveller.

Any contrary opinion? --(WT-en) Inas 00:37, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I have now made this change--(WT-en) Inas 18:27, 9 September 2008 (EDT)

Move from Usable to Guide status
I've spent the last few days (with other voyagers edits) adding extra information for the page to help it bump it up from Usable status to Guide status. There's enough entries across See, Do & Sleep sections to meet the 7+-2 rule, and the Get In has mostly stayed the same but was well put together anyway. I think it matches the criteria, but being new to editing this wiki, thought it would be best just to put it in the talk page. Is there enough for it to be bumped up? --Joshlama1 (talk) 12:05, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Some good improvements here. Only thing I would say is add coordinates to Eat listings. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:24, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Cool. I've cleaned up the Eat listings. --Joshlama1 (talk) 00:43, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I've updated the prices for the Easter Show. Some of the other very old listings may need to have their prices updated. Apart from that, I'd say that it is definitely a guide now. Well done! Gizza ( roam ) 12:57, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Banner
I live about 15 minutes away from Sydney Olympic Park and come here frequently and as a matter of fact, while the hill near Bicentennial Park (or it looks like it) is nice and is an important part of Olympic Park, it's not what this place is known for: its numerous stadiums and sports centres built for the Sydney 2000 Olympics. The proposed banner is of the 2018 Origin II rugby game between NSW and QLD, and Accor Stadium (or ANZ Stadium, as some might know it) is a common venue where this game is hosted and represents this place better than the existing banner. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 04:05, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Alternatively, a banner with the Olympics logo would also work well. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 10:47, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Banner 1 is better, but I wonder if a view which showed more of the architecture of the stadium would be better. However the only time I visited Sydney Olympic Park was in December 2000, which included touring the empty Stadium Australia. AlasdairW (talk) 11:27, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * that would also work. However, File:Accor Stadium 1.jpg is the only good image (that I could find) after the stadium was renamed to Accor Stadium. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 11:53, 2 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I am not sure that the stadium name is too important if it is not big in the view. There are a couple of good night views from 2008 which might work:
 * File:Forestpoles olympicparksyd..jpg and File:Stadium Australia, New South Wales.jpg. AlasdairW (talk) 22:27, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Banner 1 looks like any stadium soccer field anywhere. It doesn't stand out. Ground Zero (talk) 12:28, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Late reply, but how noticeable is the State of Origin logo? Accor Stadium is one of the most popular venues not just in the Origin series between New South Wales and Queensland, but the NRL as a whole. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 12:16, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

I have added a third choice, Banner 2, using one of the night views of the stadium mentioned above. AlasdairW (talk) 20:32, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

 * Just dropping in to say I like Banner 2. It's that iconic view familiar to anyone attending an event at the Olympic Park. Whether at the stadium or another venue (such as the Easter Show), it is one of the most recognisable views of the area. 49.255.185.235 04:33, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, I too like banner 2. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 04:48, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I have now changed the banner to 2. AlasdairW (talk) 20:02, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sydney/Sydney Olympic Park


text:
Talk:Sydney/Upper North Shore

Sydney Outer Radial Refactoring
Discussion is not finalised on Sydney outer radial refactoring. This article is a placeholder for the upper north short area while consensus is reached. --(WT-en) inas 22:51, 10 August 2009 (EDT)

Une problème
Much of this article was written by the infamous "Brendan John Williams" (aka Telstra) which his edits were never reverted or copyedited a couple of years ago, and much of it is a copyvio. Should this article just be re-written from scratch and indef semi protected (of course, not infinite one though, once we think he's forgot about the article, we unprotect it)? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:27, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

 * This article is predominantly written by me, Andrewssi2 and Inas. Take a look at the Page History tool. The wander webpage copied us, not the other way around. BJW's edits to this page are nearly always reverted. There may have been an instance where a listing added by BJW was kept and completely rewritten but even that is rare. Gizza ( roam ) 01:34, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I did rev del Brendan/Telstra edits though, as per the three reasons for rev del. Oh well, so then I guess this can be considered as resolved SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:37, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Looking more carefully, one or two BJW edits may have slipped through (he likes to add suburbs in "See" which is not how we do things here) and they've been removed now. Gizza ( roam ) 01:45, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * This seems one of his favourite pages. Unusually, he once added Berowra Waters to the "next to impossible" destination list, but also seemed to do this in the Central Coast article in Special:Diff/4301452 SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:46, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sydney/Upper North Shore


text:
Talk:Sylheti phrasebook

=Writing Sylheti=

Devanagari
Note that these characters are not used in writing Sylheti: Bengali alphabets lack similarity to Syloti Nagri script. Due to this, below are the Devanagari scrip representing the Syloti Nagri. To see Syloti characters visit www.omniglot.com.

Note that a few characters below have dual pronunciation: e.g.
 * The 'व' ('o' or 'w') is equivalent to "Odin" or "Woden"
 * The 'क' (ch) is equivalent to the English "chemist" and to the Scottish "Loch".
 * The 'च' ('c') is pronounced as both equivalent to "centimeter" and "change"
 * The 'श' ('sh' or 'h') is equivalent to "shhh" or "hush".
 * The 'ह' ('h' or the silent 'h') is equivalent to "hay" or "ay".

Assamese
Note that these characters are not used in writing Sylheti: Bengali alphabets lack similarity to Syloti Nagri script. Due to this, below are the Assamese scrip representing the Syloti Nagri. To see Syloti characters visit www.omniglot.com.

Note that a few characters below have dual pronunciation: e.g.
 * The 'ৱ' ('o' or 'w') is equivalent to "Odin" or "Woden"
 * The 'ক' (ch) is equivalent to the English "chemist" and to the Scottish "Loch".
 * The 'চ' ('c') is pronounced as both equivalent to "centimeter" and "change"
 * The 'শ' ('sh' or 'h') is equivalent to "shhh" or "hush".
 * The 'হ' ('h' or the silent 'h') is equivalent to "hay" or "ay".

Grapheme modifier
=Translation variations=

English to Sylheti
From English: All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood. To Sylheti: Xokhol manhor zonmo hoe azad ar izzot o adhikhar loia. Tarar hush ar zngan-buddhi takhae zeanu ekh-zon arokh-zonor loge ruhani bhaīitta bebohar takhe.

Bengali to Sylheti
From Bengali: Shomosto manush shwadhīnbhabe shoman morjyada ebong odhikar niye jonmogrohoṇ kore. Tn̐ader bibek ebong buddhi ache; shutorang shokoleroi eke oporer proti bhratṛ'twosulabh monobhab niye achoroṇ kora uchit. To Sylheti: Xokhol manush azadbhabe xoman izzot o adhikhar loia zonmoloe. Tarar bebekh o buddhi ase; erlagi xokhlei ekher uphre xokhol bela bhaīitta soluk loia sola-phira khora lage.

Assamese to Sylheti
From Assamese: Jyihētū rāstrosongghor xomūho jātiyē tēn̐wolōkor condot mānobīyo mōūlik odhikār xomūhor uporot, bykti morjydā arū bykti jyōgytār uporot, motā-tirōtā xoklōrē xomān odhīkāror uporot, pūnor astā stāpon korichē; arū Jyihētū ek pūrnotor svātomtryor mājot xomājor udgoti. To Sylheti: Zebla desh-dolor xomuk zonmo-loe tar loge o manhor mulyoban adhikhar ou xomukor takhe, ekhzonor shomman arokhzon jyogyotar takhae, tar moton xokhlor xoman odhikhar takhe, xokhle milia bash khore; ar zebla ekla bashiba hingshar maze shomazor durgoti.

Hindi to Sylheti
From Hindi: Sabhī manuṣyōn̐ kō gaurav aur adhikārōn̐ kē māmalē mēn̐ janmajāt svatantratā aur samānatā prāpt hai. Unhēn̐ buḍhi aur antarātmā kī dēn hai aur paraspar unēn̐ bhāīcārē kē bhāv sē bartāv karanā cāhiyē. To Sylheti: Xokhol manshe gourob ar adhikhar mamlote zonmo loi azad ar izzot hasil khori. Tarar buddhi ar antorotar dan ase ar erdae tara bhaīittar moton bortao khora lagbo.

= Unprecedented Kind of Phrase-Book =

I have this idea of making a suitable kind of phrase-book by travellers, for travellers in the style of LonelyPlanet (and giving away the basic starting points is just an ordinary act of meta-physical dedication/imagination, anyway). --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 09:53, 28 September 2013 (UTC)

= What is the word for the number 7? =

I just rolled back an edit of Hat to Shat, but I realize Shat could be right. Which one is correct? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:33, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

 * That IP edit looks like vandalism to me, as an alternate form of "sh*t". The edit summary of "fixed typo" is a common thing that vandals use to get their edit under the radar. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:44, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

 * I thought so, too. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:48, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Special:Diff/4371071 is definitely not a typo.... SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:03, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * No, but I don't know which word is correct. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:30, 18 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Both are correct. 4 (sair/sari), 7 (hat/shat). -ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 20:45, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

= Sylheti Wikivoyage in Wikimedia Incubator = Test of Sylheti Wikivoyage is open in the Wikimedia Incubator. Everyone is encouraged to participate. Multilingual editors are welcome, please feel free to EDIT, REVIEW or leave a translation request on the talk page. --ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 20:45, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Sylheti - Arabic (Talk page)
 * Sylheti - Assamese (Talk page)
 * Sylheti - Bengali (Talk page)
 * Sylheti - Chinese (Talk page)
 * Sylheti - Chittagonian (Talk page)
 * Sylheti - English (Talk page)

Confusion
Hi, does Sylheti phrasebook has a "good article" badge? I'm a bit confused. I don't see any badges in the article or any discussion for a good article on the talk page. Can anybody tell. Sorry for disturbing. Thanks. আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 19:31, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

 * Sylheti phrasebook is a guide article, the second highest in our classification of articles, when it is "essentially complete". Articles can be Outline, Usable, Guide or Star. Also see Phrasebook status. There are centralised discussions of promoting articles to star, but a discussion isn't required for the other promotions (it sometimes happens for guide). AlasdairW (talk) 21:39, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, we're not Wikipedia to have "good articles". -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 05:47, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

 * [edit conflict] The status is seen in the template at the bottom of the article, which says it has "guide" status. Usually anybody who sees that an article fulfils the relevant criteria (see Phrasebook status) can change the status (except for star). The status was changed to guide in 2012. The article doesn't follow the standard format and the criteria have changed since 2012, so there should probably be a discussion. –LPfi (talk) 21:55, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sylheti phrasebook


text:
Talk:Sylt

Eventual subdivision?
I copied in some listings from the German edition of the city articles. I think this may eventually be subdivided into city articles, but which lines should be drawn and when should subdivision occur? Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:17, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Lanserhof Sylt
Recently, I saw a videographic advertisement for Lanserhof Sylt online.

How could the place be mentioned? -- Apisite (talk) 09:49, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sylt


text:
Talk:Symi

I've just added some information on Symi, including a reference to the Kalodoukas Travel agency; I have no connection with them except as a recent client. 19:53, 3 April 2008 (EDT) (WT-en) Sailsetter 19:54, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Symi


text:
Talk:Syria

Including claimed territory in maps
I thought we weren't doing that, per discussion at Wikivoyage talk:Regions map Expedition. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:01, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

Policy question
Should some articles like Syria, have a 'Get Out Now!' warning? Sfan00 IMG (talk) 18:16, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes.
 * (Although I would think for anyone already in Syria, it is probably redundant.)
 * An example of an article currently with a prominent warning is Egypt. --W. Franke-mailtalk 20:04, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Region map changes
I was wondering if I could get your help on something. Iraq and Syria have undergone massive territorial changes in recent years that have made our region maps of them outdated. For Syria, I believe that we need to divide up the Syrian Desert region into two new zones: Syrian Kurdistan/Rojava, and the Southeastern Desert, as the experience for any suicidally-brave travelers in the two areas would be wildly different, as one is under a Kurdish-dominated democracy and the other is increasingly under the control of the Assad Regime.

For Iraq, similar changes need to be made. I think that the Iraqi Desert region should include Ramadi, as it is the capital of Al-Anbar Governorate. When it comes to Iraqi Kurdistan, Kirkuk is no longer under Kurdish control, so it should not be included in the Iraqi Kurdistan region on the map.

As for the name "Al-Jazira", I believe it does not accurately describe the area. In antiquity, the area was part of Assyria, a name more people would easily recognize than "Al-Jazira". I think that part should be renamed to "Assyria," as most historical sites there (such as Nineveh in Mosul) are Assyrian.

Southern Iraq, referred to as "Lower Mesopotamia" by the region map, actually represents the nerve center of historical Mesopotamian civilizations, not just a "lower" part. For this reason, I believe it should be renamed to simply "Mesopotamia."

Western Sahara also needs a region map, given that it's divided in two (also, that situation is unlikely to change in the near future). The east is controlled by the Polisario Front, so we should refer to it as the Sahrawi Arab Dem. Republic, and the West as "Moroccan Western Sahara"

Yemen, on the other hand, is far more complicated than Iraq and Syria. While a redrawing is warranted, it would be impractical to attempt now.

Libertarianmoderate (talk) 18:26, 17 June 2018 (UTC)
 * I would think that exceedingly few travellers would be going to these places now. Those that do had better have better sources for travel info than Wikivoyage. It would be admirable to be able to keep up with changes in these highly volatile regions, but it is likely to be a low priority for our active editors given how few - if any - readers it would benefit. If only we had more contributors, we could be the travel guide of choice for even rarely visited regions.. Ground Zero (talk) 17:40, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

 * A short comment on proposed region renames: Sure, Assyrians do live in the region proposed to be renamed as "Assyria", as well as elsewhere in the surrounding greater area, but they are a minority in anywhere they live, regardless of where their empire was based millenia back. Mesopotamia (Ancient Greek for "between rivers") denotes the area between the Euphrates and Tigris Rivers, both of which originate from the mountains of eastern Turkey, and is often understood to be anywhere down the rivers from, and including, Southeastern Turkey. So the area around the mouth of the rivers into the Persian Gulf is definitely Lower Mesopotamia.
 * But in any case, these discussions should take place in talk pages of the relevant country and/or region articles. Vidimian (talk) 20:07, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

Prices in SYP
As the value of the Syrian pound has fallen from US$0.02 to $0.002, and it is unlikely that any of our prices have been updated on a long time, I think it makes sense to remove any prices listed in SYP because they are of no use to travellers. Comments? Ground Zero (talk) 11:48, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

 * I agree, it's meaningless to have prices in the article that don't even closely reflect the situation on the ground. Ypsilon (talk) 12:18, 29 September 2019 (UTC)

 * I think in certain cases, out-of-date prices can still be useful if the date is listed, but when it comes to Syria we're going to have to rebuild so much of our coverage from scratch anyway, I agree it's hard to see much value in keeping the prices. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:05, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Entry requirements
Are you sure the information about getting a visa on arrival at land border is updated? Because I cannot find it anywhere else online. Instead it seems like you must get a visa in advance, otherwise you simply cannot get it. —The preceding comment was added by 185.46.214.89 (talk • contribs)

 * I don't think we would recommend for anyone to visit Syria now; would you? That said, if you know something in any article is wrong, change it! That's how Wikis work. See Plunge forward. (Also, please sign posts on talk pages by typing 4 tildes [~] in a row.) Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:01, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Currency, time and spelling conventions
Below is a proposed infobox to let readers know which formatting conventions to use in Wikivoyage articles. Do you agree with these proposals? If you have direct knowledge of what is most commonly used in the country, please let us know. Ground Zero (talk) 16:53, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Moved to the top of this article. Ground Zero (talk) 12:44, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Rojava
How autonomous is Rojava currently?2605:6000:1526:450B:B961:BDB6:3CE:5629 12:15, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

A bit more context
I realize Syria is no tourist destination at this time, but Syria was one of the great civilizations of the ancient world and was also important during the Islamic Golden Age and as part of the Ottoman Empire, so I thought it was really unjust not to summarize those things. Therefore, I tried my hand at it, with reference to a few Wikipedia articles (e.g., Syria, Aleppo) that I used to confirm information and not to copy from. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:56, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Syria


text:
Talk:Syunik

I rolled back the removal of the outline cause I'm not sure why it was done. Please make a note in the summary or talk page. If you think the article should be deleted add a vote for deletion tag. Thanks. (WT-en) Maj 06:51, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Syunik


text:
Talk:Szczecin

Comments
Napoleon's conquests: the word "tragic" is not neutral.

Sentence: "Poland annexed all lands up to the Oder river, expelling the native German population": 1. Poland was given these lands by the allies in Potsdam... 2. Germans moved on their own before the end of war...

Deletion
I removed this from Get around/By car because it seemed outdated:

 * Because of major renovation works in the city centre and Niebuszewo district held this year expect detours and/or traffic jams, especially during rush hours. If you stay in the city consider leaving your car on parking and using public transport.

Should some of it be restored or updated? Pashley (talk) 15:40, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Szczecin


text:
Talk:Szentendre

Rab Ráby

 * Rab Ráby: ... Try the gulyas soup.

Jpatokal, is there anything special about gulyas in Rab Raby? I mean, gulyas is probably the most typical and frequently served dish in Hungary--so recommending gulyas at a particular restaurant should have a strong reason. What is that reason? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 18:14, 25 January 2007 (EST)

 * It's the dish the restaurant is most famous for, it's popular, it's tasty and it's served in a funky manner (check the photo). Or at least it was ~10 years ago when I visited... (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:08, 26 January 2007 (EST)

 * I see. Could you please update the listing with these details? It makes things much clear--and choice easier on whether a traveller should visit Rab Raby. Or I can try to do it myself if you like. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 06:18, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Discussion continued in Talk:M'Hamid.

reverted edits by DenisYurkin
Maj, would you please explain the reasons for reverting ALL of my changes since Jan 8, 2007? What exactly is wrong about ALL of them? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:08, 27 January 2007 (EST)
 * Wow, total mistake is my reason! I only meant to get rid of the "(see photo)" edit, not everything... I'm putting it back the way it way (even including the "(see photo)" part). My bad. (WT-en) Maj 21:23, 28 January 2007 (EST)

photos in Eat listings
The photo for Rab Raby in Eat listing seems to become a trigger a discussion on general policy on image inclusion--see Project:Image policy. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 01:08, 28 January 2007 (EST)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:53, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Szentendrei Szabadtéri Néprajzi Múzeum 07.jpg

 * Removed from the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:21, 3 April 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Szentendre