text:
Talk:California

Article statistics for California
Moved to California Expedition

Hitchhiking
what are the laws for hitchhiking in california.

i am trying to go from santa cruz to santa barbara.

Regions
Before adding any new regions please see http://gocalif.ca.gov/state/tourism/tour_inc_navigation.jsp?PrimaryCat=Regions for a semi-official list of regions within California. Thus far this has proven to be a good breakdown for travel guide use. -- (WT-en) Ryan 22:17, 16 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Initially, I hated this idea because it wasn't quite how I'd divide the state. But I've come to love it because it divides it along semi-reasonable lines, it's an extremely precise division with well-defined boundaries, and it also avoids us having to work out this hard problem on our own. -- (WT-en) Colin 13:45, 6 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * I should actually modify the comment above, since the current map doesn't exactly follow what the CA department of tourism used (Wikivoyage's regional breakdown had a few pre-existing differences):

 * Wikivoyage splits the Central Valley region into the Sacramento Valley region & the San Joaquin Valley region.
 * Wikivoyage includes Sacramento in the Sacramento Valley region instead of the Gold Country region.
 * Wikivoyage combines the Los Angeles County, Orange County, and San Diego County regions into the Southern California region.

 * That said, the current list seems pretty complete, and there should be a discussion if anyone wants to add a new region. Also, I agree with Colin that having a map w/ a clearly-defined set of regions makes it much easier to figure out what goes where.  And Colin, if you'd rather change any of the regions around, let me know your thoughts and I'd be happy to modify the map.  For the most part I'm happy with the breakdown, although if it was solely up to me I don't think I would have split the Central Valley into two regions, and I would probably have lumped Gold Country into the Sierra Nevada region. However, since Wikivoyage had already split the Central Valley and defined a Gold Country region it didn't seem to hurt to keep them that way. -- (WT-en) Ryan 14:00, 6 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Counties as Regions - Love and hate
I've been populating the Bay Area by filling all the counties with cities, and then populating the cities with hotel content. I do this because it's easy: there are simple ways of researching which cities are in each county so that we get a complete set of city articles. Yay! Easy way to get complete content! And there's also the possibility that we could eventually automatically generate maps of California showing both counties and also city locations much as Wikipedia has done.

But this is also bad because we don't divide California into county divisions -- which is good thing if you've ever seen a map of the counties. Along the Sierra, they tend to be highly elongated west-east along rivers, and encompass parts of the hot valley, the gold country, and the high sierra. They make no sense as divisions generally.

Here's what I propose: we have a complete set of counties for now to gain content. And then we link the articles into the Correct System of subdivision. Later we can either delete the county articles or just leave them around as another way of seeing travel.

Thoughts? -- (WT-en) Colin 16:17, 21 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * My thought is that counties are about as good a region system in California as we can get. Let's take a look at the California county map and make a poke at doing a hierarchy with one layer between state and county. --(WT-en) Evan 16:21, 21 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * Well, some counties are insanely shaped. For example, Kern county starts in the Coastal Range, crosses the heat of the Central Valley (including Bakersfield), crosses the Southern Sierra (including Lake Isabella) and heads out into the desert (including Edwards Air Force Base where the Shuttle lands on the dry lake bed).

 * But that said, I think I'm overstating the problems with Counties. Most of the proposed division already lies along county lines.  Only Kern will be totally carved.  Most others will be carved sensibly like dividing the Central Valley portion of the county from the Sierra portion.  So I think this will work out. -- (WT-en) Colin 18:11, 21 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * I'm in favor of trying to create regions that have borders corresponding to county borders so long as the resulting regions make sense. Your example of Kern County is a good one -- it just doesn't make sense from a traveler's point of view to have a region that includes coast range, desert and the Sierras.  In some cases I'm not exactly sure where the division should be though -- Benicia is obviously in the Bay Area (it is on the Bay!) but most of Solano County is really more Central Valley, or Sacramento Valley as Wikivoyage has chosen to call it.

 * Having now thought through this problem a bit more as I've been typing, I guess maybe a good rule would be to try and stick to county borders as much as possible (which we already do, I believe) but to remember that there are fuzzy areas and do our best to define those areas (see Kern County & Benicia above). Rather than trying to reinvent things from scratch (which is not what you're proposing if I read it right), why not just find places where the current regional breakdown doesn't seem to work, and then address those specific problems?  Your approach of creating county articles and putting city information into those articles, and then feeding the city articles into regional articles where we can sounds good.  Over time I imagine that everything else will work itself out. -- (WT-en) Ryan 18:40, 21 Aug 2005 (EDT)

I guess this is not a live issue any more but even where I live, in Tuolumne County, which is an odd mixture of gold country and mountains, county borders do make some sense. The larger towns, and culture and shopping and such things as visitor bureaus, are in the foothills. They serve the mountain areas, and the roads go from the foothill areas of the counties to the mountain areas. Counties also gain some identity because they are pretty isolated. People who live in Tuolumne County are pretty aware that they live in that county, and actually have occasional feuds (sometimes lawsuits) with neighboring counties like Calaveras and Mariposa. On the negative side, WikiTravel is supposed to be a guide for tourists, and the fact is that tourists are rarely aware of what county they are in. It doesn't help much in the Sierra either, when, as has been pointed out, the county boundaries are a huge mess. Lake Tahoe is a particular mess, with the place carved up into slices and crazy naming, like Placerville being in El Dorado County rather than Placer County. (And many tourists think Nevada County is in Nevada).(WT-en) CraigWill 03:58, 7 September 2006 (EDT)

Inland Empire
From an anonymous contributor on the Talk:Southern California page:

''Riverside and San Bernardino Counties are part of Southern California according to all conventions. Riverside County, for instance, is home to a popular travel spot, Palm Springs, which is always considered part of So Cal. Together Riverside and San Bernadino Counties form the Inland Empire, which is part of Southern California, although virtually never used by locals (as in "I'm from the Inland Empire").''

I would tend to agree. Would anyone (Colin?) be opposed to redefining California's top-level regions to lump the Inland Empire into Southern California? We already differ somewhat from the official state of California regional breakdown - what we're calling Southern California the state breaks into Los Angeles County, Orange County & San Diego County - so lumping the Inland Empire in there as well wouldn't hurt and would (I think) make more sense from a traveler's perspective. -- (WT-en) Ryan 12:40, 8 Nov 2005 (EST)

 * Fine by me. -- (WT-en) Colin 14:07, 8 Nov 2005 (EST)

 * Cool, barring anyone else's objection I'll try and re-jigger the California map in the next day or two, and then begin shifting things around in the articles. -- (WT-en) Ryan 14:16, 8 Nov 2005 (EST)

 * Done. -- (WT-en) Ryan 00:38, 11 Nov 2005 (EST)

California Divisions
Moved from User talk:(WT-en) Wrh2:

I didn't realize until now that the Cal State divisions place Ventura and Santa Barbara Counties into the Central Coast. Wikivoyage currently has them in Southern California. I think the Cal State division is more useful in terms of breaking things more evenly, though as a Northern Californian I think of those counties as being part of the evil megapolis to the south. Your map also puts them in the Central Coast. I'll put them in the Central Coast for now, but I thought I'd just raise those issues in case it worries you. -- (WT-en) Colin 20:19, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

 * I didn't realize we had anything north of LA County in the SoCal region either. The SoCal region is so huge that I don't think we need to expand it further - Santa Barbara is Southern California in the same sense that Redwood National Park is in Northern California, so putting Ventura and Santa Barbara Counties into the Central Coast region seems sane enough.

 * And evil megalopolis? Were I not still a Northern California boy in spirit I'd sense a shallow-actor-wannabes vs. protesting-pot-smoking-hippies flamewar beginning ;) -- (WT-en) Ryan 20:33, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

 * I'm not sure a hippie is aerodynamic enough to launch, flaming or otherwise. So we'll have to say no to the flamewar, though it did briefly give us hope of solving our hippie problem.

 * I'll put Ventura and St. B into the CC, and see how well that sticks. - (WT-en) Colin

 * I'm not so crazy about this. I also don't think it makes sense to balance things out by square mileage. I definitely think V and SB are in SoCal, and that Santa Cruz is in the Central Coast area. --(WT-en) Evan 23:19, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

 * It's not by square milage -- there is actually some travel sense to it. Santa Barbara county is a lot like SLO, and very unlike LA.  Ventura County is a bit odd though.  We've altered the definitions a bit in the past, and it can certainly be discussed more.  But on the whole, the region breakdown that we've agreed on for the past year has been working well. -- (WT-en) Colin 23:42, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

 * As an addendum: I think Santa Cruz in the Central Coast works just as badly as in the Bay Area. If SC moves from the Bay Area, I suspect we're going to have to use Monterey Bay as a region.  But then Monterey gets sucked into the Monterey Bay Region.  Then what to we call the central California coast?  If we still call it Central Coast, well, Monterey is definitely part of the Central Coast too.  And there's no other word for the California coast in that section....  Makes you start to wish that people would organize the geographic vocabulary to better serve travel guide writers :-) -- (WT-en) Colin 00:20, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

 * I'm confused here as well - currently Southern California is defined as the Los Angeles to San Diego area, and Central Coast (seems) to be defined as the area north of LA up to and including the Monterey Bay. Since we have some flexibility to choose where the borders of the Wikivoyage regions are, it seems to make sense to slim down the SoCal region by saying that Santa Barbara and its neighbors are in the Central Coast region.  The whole point of having regions is to break a large area into logical units that are easier to deal with - putting Santa Barbara and everything south into a single region doesn't seem to achieve that goal.  Is your argument that Santa Barbara can't be considered anything other than SoCal?  From a travel standpoint I'd tend to disagree with that, and would agree with Colin that Santa Barbara is more like SLO than LA. -- (WT-en) Ryan 00:49, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

 * In my mental geography, the borderline between SoCal and the Central Coast is the junction of 1 and 101 right by Gaviota State Park, and between the Bay Area and Central Coast when the freeway ends at Gilroy. But I'll accept that those are highly subjective dividing lines and that I have probably driven the route too many times to make sane decisions about them. I buy the new split. In the larger picture, I think sticking with counties is a good way to save heartache. --(WT-en) Evan 02:18, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

 * In my own mind, Ventura County is part of Southern California, and the Central Coast starts after Point Conception, similar to Evan. The Los Padres/Angeles National Forests/Santa Ynez Mountains actually provide a pretty good geographical buffer. I can get on board with the SoCal consensus, or if we split the difference, with Ventura going South and SB going Central. -- MisterCustomer (talk) 22:13, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

 * There are strong arguments for moving the Wikivoyage border for "Southern California" further to the north, but the Southern California region already covers a massive number of cities and sub-regions, and the goal of any regional breakdown is to divide a big thing into more manageable chunks. As such, I still think it makes sense to cut it off north of Malibu, rather than enlarging it and shrinking the already-compact Central Coast region.  I'm sympathetic to the idea that Big Sur is a far different place than Ventura, but Ventura (the gateway to the Channel Islands) could clearly go either way, and I think we're better off reducing the scope of what we try to cover as "Southern California". -- Ryan • (talk) • 22:48, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, color me convinced. We have to draw the line somewhere. As long as we're consistent, count me as a vote for the California page's "as-is" trickling down to SoCal. -- MisterCustomer (talk) 23:13, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Santa Cruz County - Central Coast or Bay Area?
I hate to dredge up old discussions, but I've noticed that Santa Cruz County is currently paired with the Bay Area rather than the Central Coast, which I don't quite agree with. As you might be able to tell from the history, I changed it around, then flipped it back when I figured I'd be opening up a big can of worms without explaining myself.

More than a personal preference, putting Santa Cruz with the Bay Area is messing up what otherwise could be a neat division for the Bay Area. The Bay Area has been divided up into the North Bay, East Bay, Peninsula, and South Bay regions - but Santa Cruz doesn't fall into any of those. What's more, the Monterey Bay sub-region of the Central Coast has to be dragged into the Bay Area as well, since Santa Cruz is part of that region. But no one would consider Monterey Bay part of the Bay Area. I'm not convinced by any of the arguments stated above for putting Santa Cruz into the Bay Area - we're not going to have to make Monterey Bay a region of California just because we put Santa Cruz in it. I think we should move it to the Central Coast, change the CA regions map, and be the happier for it. (WT-en) PerryPlanet Talk 12:23, 13 July 2010 (EDT)

 * I'd be in favor of this change as it makes both Bay Area (California) and Central Coast into more cohesive regions, but as I recall there have been strong feelings in the past for including Santa Cruz as part of the Bay Area so it might be worthwhile letting this discussion stew for a few days before making any change. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 13:06, 13 July 2010 (EDT)

 * Well, I've forgotten about this and just rediscovered it. Having let it stew for several months, I'm thinking I'll go ahead and change it, unless someone else would like to pitch in with their thoughts. (WT-en) PerryPlanet Talk 13:54, 11 October 2010 (EDT)

 * All I know about the Bay Area I learned from watching Star Trek. I do recall that in The Voyage Home, they placed the Cetatean Institute (played by the Monterey Bay Aquarium) in Sausalito so that it was closer to San Francisco.  But I don't know anything of Santa Cruz.  (WT-en) LtPowers 09:34, 18 October 2010 (EDT)

Cities and Towns
Another issue is reference to cities and towns. In the Gold Country/Sierra Nevada, including Tuolumne County, where I live, there are very few cities. In my county, there is only one city, Sonora. Everything else is a town (or less). I have noticed that in other areas of WikiTravel, such as Scotland, there is considerable reference to towns, but it seems that it is assumed in the California part that everything is a city. Tuolumne County, for example, lists everything as a city, although everything but Sonora is really a town. Obviously, a big problem is determining what is a city. I assume there is some reference for this, other than checking the incorporation records in Sacramento! Craig Will

 * The word "city" in the United Kingdom has a very specific definition: it means that the place has a "Royal Charter" or something like that. So when they use "town", they're refering to a populated place that doesn't have a charter.  The UKians get very uptight if you refer to a town as a city ;-).   In the US, we don't have such specific meanings, so we can generally get away with calling everything a city.  So for the section header ==Cities== in the region text, just leave it as Cities per the Project:Region article template, but in the actual article go ahead and call it a town if you think it appropriate.

 * And a tip: you can sign your post automatically with your user name and timestamp by typing four tildes like this: -- ~ -- (WT-en) Colin 14:17, 6 September 2006 (EDT)

Well, it seems odd to me, because I think that we do have a specific meaning for a city, but I suppose there is also some ambiguity and if nobody is upset with calling everything a city I guess it is OK.(WT-en) CraigWill 16:55, 6 September 2006 (EDT)

Valleys
To add another twist; I know there are many locals who consider their region to be defined as a "valley" - Imperial Valley, Owens (River) Valley, Central Valley, and of course "The Valley" San Fernando Valley. Usually these are classified in smaller subdivisions than state regions. Just thought I'd mention it.--(WT-en) justfred 14:32, 11 October 2006 (EDT)

Agricultural inspections
From the article: "All major road and airport entrances (including entrances from other US States) to California have agricultural inspection stations"

Airport entrances? Really? I've flown in and out of California several times and never had to go through any inspections. I've never heard of it happening to anyone else either. Maybe this is referring to having your plane inspected if you fly a Cessna in from out of state or something? Any pilots here that can comment?

BTW, for the past 3 years or so, I've never seen anyone actually manning the inspection stations on the freeways when I drive in from out of state (usually 10, 15, or 80). 129.42.184.35

 * I've seen the stations manned. And you're right about airports -- I can't remember ever being asked about fruits when flying home on a commercial airline. -- (WT-en) Colin 20:44, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

 * I've seen the highway stations manned most of the times I've been through, on 8, 15 (near Barstow), and 395. But I've never seen it done at the airport.  As a private pilot - never flew out of state, but the inspections would be nonexistant since you generally just fly direct to your destination airport or fuel stop.--(WT-en) justfred 23:17, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

 * My experience with the highway agricultural stations has been that they're usually only manned when there's some general concern - I was stopped a few years back during some scare over some moth or other, but haven't been stopped again during probably 10-20 trips in the past couple of years. We could probably remove the note about checks in airports, although you do occasionally see dogs in the bag check areas, again usually during times when there's an alert going on. -- (WT-en) Ryan 23:28, 25 October 2006 (EDT)

Wildflower Hotline
The following was deleted from the article without comment. It's been there for a while, so it probably deserves a fair hearing before being dropped completely:

 * * California Wildflower Hotline, (818) 768-3533, . From March through May, the California Wildflower Hotline at (818) 768-3533 or visit www.theodorepayne.org offers the latest information on the best places to view wildflowers throughout California. The hotline and website are updated every Thursday evening. The hotline covers Southern California and the website covers the entire state. More than 90 wildflower sites are included. The hotline, now in its 25th year, is operated by the Theodore Payne Foundation for Wild Flowers and Native Plants, Inc.

It seems like worthwhile information to me, although something that may be a bit specialized. If it isn't kept in the California article is there a better place for it? -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 02:55, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

I vote for keeping it on the California page, who doesn't love a good Wildflower? – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 20:16, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

 * It's springtime, and the flower hotline is back. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 16:26, 15 April 2007 (EDT)

Banner
I added in the banner with the field of poppies because its the state flower so it represents the whole state, the flowers are present in many regions so it doesn't single out one part of the state, and the picture itself is gorgeous. If California ultimately uses a different banner image, could the person who changes it please restore this as the banner for Antelope Valley? Thanks! Mcd51 (talk) 02:06, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Legal hemp
IIRC it was a ballot measure in the November 2016 elections that legalized it. I don't know when it took effect, though. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:38, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

 * w:Adult Use of Marijuana Act says "... leading to recreational cannabis sales in the state beginning January, 2018."--ϒpsilon (talk) 20:36, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Power outages
Should we add a warning or caution box about the precautionary power outages that have been going on in California? Pinging for input. —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:00, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not there at the moment, but yes, I think we should. Yesterday, the CalFire website didn't work for me. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 12:52, 27 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, warn about the fires and outages. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:33, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

“Extreme temperatures”
It’s ironic that Florida has an infobox warning about “extreme temperatures” while California doesn’t seem to have such an infobox, despite its record high temperature being almost 30 Fahrenheit warmer and regularly higher temperatures in summer than the East Coast state. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 19:10, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

 * Maybe Florida's summer temperatures are more uniformly high throughout the state? I don't know if that's the case, but certainly within California the most extreme temperatures in one region can be very different from those in another region. A warning on the state article might make sense if a large portion of the state reaches dangerous temperatures regularly, but would make less sense if those dangerous temperatures are limited to a particular subregion. Also, California (or at least the part of it I'm familiar with) tends not to be humid. A dry heat isn't as bad as heat plus humidity. —Granger (talk · contribs) 20:38, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
 * True, and it’s accurate that Florida’s high temperatures are more uniform in summer (not winter), and even the ocean doesn’t have anything like the impact of the Pacific in reducing temperatures. But high temperatures are encountered in large enough portions of the state of California that it could definitely be applied to the statewide article. My experience of Pleasanton, CA, which is considered to be in the northern part of the state, and is about 30 miles from the ocean, is that it receives triple digit heat for a few days every year, and 110+ certainly isn’t unheard of (I have no clue what that is in Celsius - somewhere in the 40s?). The Central Valley is experiencing near triple digit heat now, in May. And the valley receives consistent temperatures throughout its north-south length, as climate data show. That leaves just the coastline and mountains that don’t (usually) receive extreme heat, though a couple years ago San Francisco received triple digit heat, overwhelming local thermometers that weren’t designed to cope with those temperatures.
 * While humidity can make the air feel hotter, that’s at least partially subjective (a 90 F, humid, but cloudy Florida day doesn’t feel particularly hot IMHO), and humidity actually moderates the temperature to my understanding. Dry heat can feel more intense if the sun is out, which it usually is in California. My experience is that the “feels like” temperature measurements in Florida are usually exaggerated, and the temperatures often feel cooler than the actual temperature, but that might be just me.
 * By the way, not to sound too blunt in my previous comment; I just thought it was worth addressing. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 21:00, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
 * My experience is limited, but I think a high temperature in the relatively dry air of the Bay Area feels more comfortable than the same temperature in humid North Carolina or Guangdong. When I was growing up my family lived in San Rafael with no air conditioning in our house or car—I don't think we would have done the same in central North Carolina, let alone Florida. Overall, are California's summers unusually intense compared to the rest of the US?
 * The fact that thermometers in San Francisco aren't designed for temperatures above 100F is an indication that the weather there is not traditionally very hot. Of course, many parts of the world are seeing record-breaking temperatures in recent years, and that will continue in the future as the earth warms up—but that's not anything special about California. —Granger (talk · contribs) 23:18, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
 * San Rafael is on the Bay, which moderates its climate. As soon as you go a few miles inland, that changes. I’m not claiming that California universally receives hot weather in summer, but I think enough of it does to justify the infobox. I’d argue, however, that a few other articles could do with the same warning — better safe than sorry.
 * Perhaps your point is that the largest tourist destinations in California don’t receive hot weather often, with which I’d agree. Additionally climate data evidence indicates that warming is much more pronounced in some regions of the world than others (with polar regions the most impacted), so I think we do have to keep pace with varied degrees of climatic change in different regions of the world. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 23:34, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, I'll leave it to your judgement. —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:14, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Late weighing in here, but here it goes: In terms of Florida temps vs California temps, you mentioned the humidity in Florida being a big difference from California. High heat with high humidity creates a situation in which it is harder for a person to cool off.  In low humidity heat, sweat will evaporate off the skin having a cooling effect.  In high humidity, the air is already saturated with moisture and the sweat is unable to evaporate leading to reduced cooling.  This can lead to people being more likely to have heat exhaustion or heat stroke.  The Heat Index provides a correlation between heat and humidity and shows why a 90° day in California with 10% humidity is less risky than a 90° day in Florida with 90% humidity.

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:01, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Los Angeles with Mount Baldy.jpg

Why so many 'Other destinations'?
There should only be a maximum of nine; there are currently 17. I would suggest the three state parks without a WV article can be deleted without further comment, but that still leaves five more to whittle down. I'll let people who actually know California decide how to proceed, so off the top of me 'ead that's thoughts? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:10, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

 * Having a decent knowledge of Cal, what significance is Disneyland. After all, the bigger one's in Orlando. Napa Valley is also not too significant. I'm not sure why the Chanel Islands have to be there. But with this, it leaves us with 2. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 12:23, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure this is the original Disneyland, i.e. the one watched over by Walt's frozen corpse, and probably one of the most-visited theme parks in the world. Can't comment on the others.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:30, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * It is the second most visited theme park in the world, after the one in Florida, which makes it a pretty big deal for California. Ground Zero (talk) 18:27, 20 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I think the following destinations should stay on the list for sure:
 * Disneyland
 * Lake Tahoe
 * Napa Valley
 * Death Valley
 * At least one redwood/sequoia-related place
 * Yosemite National Park
 * That makes six, which would leave room for at most three of the remaining destinations. —Granger (talk · contribs) 19:46, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

 * I haven't been there, but just based on photos, I'd suggest including Joshua Tree National Park. Big Basin Redwoods State Park is lovely but was badly damaged in a fire and needs time to recover. What about Big Sur? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:33, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Big Sur over Big Basin Redwoods State Park, I think. Big Sur is definitely considered a really important travel destination in California, though if we include CA-1 as an itinerary, that covers it. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 14:14, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

If we have to reduce the number this is what I would recommend:

* Yosemite – one of the first wilderness parks in the United States. [keep]
 * Disneyland this world-famous amusement park opened its doors in 1955 and today draws around 16 million yearly visitors. The California Adventure theme park was added in 2001 and provides attractions inspired by the state's scenery and movie industry. [keep]
 * Lake Tahoe a deep blue mountain lake, popular for water sports in the summer and skiing in the winter. [keep]
 * Napa Valley spas, wine tasting, wine tours; the historic heart of California Wine Country. [keep]
 * Big Sur can be loosely defined as the stretch of coastline between Carmel and San Simeon, and the steep cliffs, rocky coast, churning waves, abundant wildlife, redwoods, and remoteness make it a stunningly beautiful drive. [include as CA Route 1 itinerary?]
 * Diablo Range is the home of California's oak woodlands and traditionally was a key ranching region in the state. It is adjacent to the San Francisco Bay Area. [remove, leave wikilink at lower level]
 * Channel Islands five remarkable islands (Anacapa, Santa Cruz, Santa Rosa, San Miguel, and Santa Barbara) and their ocean environment. [remove, leave wikilink at lower level]
 * Death Valley – a place of legend and a place of trial. [keep]
 * Joshua Tree - the Joshua Trees found in the park can be seen in the picture to the right [marginal, IMHO, depends on whether or not the others make nine]
 * Lassen – witness a brief moment in the ancient battle between the earth shaping forces of creation and destruction. [also marginal, probably less important than Joshua Tree]
 * Redwood National Park – stand at the base of a coast redwood and even the huckleberry bushes tower over you. [marginal, either this one or Sequoia/Kings Canyon]
 * Sequoia/Kings Canyon – these twin parks hold monuments to nature's size, beauty, and diversity. [probably keep per Redwood National Park]
 * Pinnacles – a rugged landscape in the Diablo Range [remove, leave wikilink at lower level]

All other parks listings are unnecessary, as parks are adequately covered in the list above. United States National Parks (create a California State Parks?) could be a wikilink for enthusiasts. (As that would leave us with seven, we could include two additional ones from this list or include two of the state parks.) --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 14:20, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

 * A California State Parks article seems like a good idea to me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:59, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

 * One month on, and we still haven't picked on which 9 destinations we're choosing. I just pinged Antandrus since they have local knowledge as well. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 13:33, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Combining the comments above, how about:
 * Death Valley
 * Disneyland
 * Joshua Tree
 * Lake Tahoe
 * Napa Valley
 * Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks
 * Yosemite
 * That makes seven; we could also add Big Sur and/or Lassen if desired. —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:51, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Seeing no further comments, I've gone ahead and implemented this. —Granger (talk · contribs) 12:13, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Got a question about the California English dialect.
￼ Whenever I add the new information about the language, it got reverted and it say it was too encyclopedic. This article never had information available about the dialect called "California English." So, I edited the article to add the introduction details about the new dialect. I wanted the readers of traveling to learn more about the dialect called California English. There are some languages spoken, but disagree that it should be removed. It should not be removed because, the Wikipedia article has that and it will be a good idea to add this information about the local dialect. Can anyone give a reason for that? Thanks already. -- 204.129.232.195 20:44, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I looked at the last edit. It didn't provide any information of use to travellers. It was very general, and is more suited to Wikipedia. Ground Zero (talk) 21:45, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Any additional reasoning? 204.129.232.195 22:44, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
 * please check out WV:Goals and non-goals and WV:Tone for additional reasoning. Ibaman (talk) 01:15, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
 * User:204.129 -- no, that is sufficient reasoning. Please review the links that Ibaman provided. They are useful to understanding what Wikivoyage is about. Ground Zero (talk) 01:34, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:California


text:
Talk:California desert camping

I changed the capitalization to fit with our article naming conventions. -- (WT-en) Evan 20:51, 9 Nov 2003 (PST)

Ill get the deatils right sooner or later :) (WT-en) Ron 21:05, 9 Nov 2003 (PST)

General article
Maybe this should be turned into a general "desert camping" or similar article? Most of the information is not very specific to California... -- (WT-en) Nils 19:52, 17 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * Ah I knew I had seen the topic before. Nevada has "desert travel" advice, too. -- (WT-en) Nils 07:32, 19 Jul 2004 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:California desert camping


text:
Talk:Calistoga

Moving Wineries
I am going move the list of wineries into the "to Do" section and leave the drink section for coffee shops, bars and night clubs. This makes better sense to me because most people view going wine tasting at wineries as an activity, more than just a place to drink. If anyone really objects feel free to move it back. (WT-en) Trew 17:43, 6 November 2008 (EST)Trew

Future information
https://www.napavalley.com/blog/36-hours-in-calistoga-this-winter/ -- John Broughton 05:57, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Calistoga


text:
Talk:Calvados

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Edits 2 Dec 2008 83.146.11.30
Sorry, wasn't logged in. It was me.(WT-en) Hrcolyer 09:58, 2 December 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Calvados


text:
Talk:Calvi

Les Résidences Pinéa and Les Terrasse
How do you all feel about this listing? The rates for the apartments are here:. I was going to revert the listing and say it's essential to list rates. I think there are too many rates to list in a single entry, but at least a range would be helpful. Shall we revert the listing and give the lister some instructions? By the way, there is also a physical address for the office: (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 14:48, 1 January 2012 (EST)

 * It seems like a borderline case per Apt, but if it stays then I agree that requiring a range of prices would be fair. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 16:07, 1 January 2012 (EST)

title: Talk:Calvi


text:
Talk:Camagüey

Heya, I removed this link as it doesn't fit in with our current Project:Goals and non-goals and Project:External links policy. Lemme know if you have any questions. (WT-en) Maj 20:40, 12 September 2006 (EDT)

 * Here are some photos of Camagüey street life.

title: Talk:Camagüey


text: Talk:Camargue

title: Talk:Camargue


text:
Talk:Camarines Sur

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Sleep section
Region articles should not have a sleep section. The following was removed from the article and can be used in city articles --(WT-en) Nick 05:19, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

Baao

Baao Recreational Center National Highway Brgy. San Isidro, Baao, Camarines Sur Tel. (54) 266-3035 15 rooms / rates Php 350-500

Villa Marietta Hot Spring Resort National Highway Brgy. Del Rosario, Baao, Camarines Sur 8 rooms / rates Php 700

Bombon

Magic Splash Island Brgy. Simbre, Bombon, Camarines Sur 13 rooms / rates Php 1,300

Camaligan

Motorist Lodge Queborac Drive, Zone 5 Brgy. Marupit Camaligan, Camarines Sur Tel. (54) 474-5465 15 rooms / rates Php 300-800

Canaman

Nordia Hostel Nordia Complex Brgy. Baras, Canaman, Camarines Sur 23 rooms / rates Php 300-400

Iriga City

Bayanihan Hotel Alfelor St. Brgy. San Roque, Iriga City Tel. (54) 299-2556 11 rooms / rates Php 200-750

Hotel Ibalon Brgy. San Francisco, Iriga City Tel. (54) 299-2352 12 rooms / rates Php 552-1432

Lemars Hotel I J. P. Rizal Hi-way Brgy. San Roque, Iriga City 21 rooms / rates Php 250-700

Lemars Hotel II Alfelor St., Brgy. San Roque, Iriga City 8 rooms / rates Php 200

Parkview Hotel (Class E) J. P. Rizal Hi-way Brgy. San Roque, Iriga City Tel. (54) 299-2405 14 rooms / rates Php 400-1,350

City Lodge J. P. Rizal Hi-way Brgy. San Francisco, Iriga City 3 rooms / rates Php 300

Hi-way Lodge J .P. Rizal Hi-way Brgy. San Miguel, Iriga City Tel. (54) 456-1230 4 rooms / rates Php 150-300

Princess Dina Lodge J. P. Rizal Hi-way Brgy. San Miguel, Iriga City 4 rooms / rates Php 200-400

Betania Retreat House Brgy. San Agustin, Iriga City Tel. (54) 453-0267

Goa

Traveller's Villa San Benito St. Brgy. San Benito, Goa, Camarines Sur Tel. (54) 453-1321 5 rooms / rates Php 300-500

Lagonoy

Lagonoy Hotel J. P. Rizal St., Brgy San Isidro Sur Lagonoy, Camarines Sur Tel. (54) 453-7326 8 rooms / rates Php 450-850

Libmanan

Parafina Pension House Poblacion Libmanan, Camarines Sur 7 rooms / rate Php 300

Villa Maricon Atienza Compound Brgy. San Juan Libmanan, Camarines Sur Tel (54) 451-2500 3 rooms / rates Php 250-300

Villa Ursua Brgy. San Juan Libmanan, Camarines Sur 8 rooms / rates Php 150-600

Pasacao

Maria Maruja Hotel and Beach Resort Brgy. Pasacao, Camarines Sur

Playa del Sol Brgy. Caranan, Pasacao, Camarines Sur 3 rooms / rates Php 1,000

Pongol Village Inn Brgy. Balogo, Pasacao, Camarines Sur 11 rooms / rates Php 350

Garden Beach Resort Zone 1 Brgy. Balogo, Pasacao, Camarines Sur 10 rooms / rates Php 300-1000

Pili

Moraville Drive-In Hotel National Highway Brgy. Anayan, Pili, Camarines Sur Tel. (54) 4773947 9 rooms / rates Php 620-1,200

CASAFI Brgy. Cadlan, Pili, Camarines Sur Tel. (54) 477-0008 100 pax / rate Php 150-200

CSSAC National Highway Brgy. San Jose, Pili, Camarines Sur

Pili Dorm Brgy. Palestina, Pili, Camarines Sur 12 rooms / rates Php 100 for 3 hours

Presentacion

Aguirangan View Hotel Brgy. Maañgas Presentacion, Camarines Sur 18 rooms / rates Php 650-950

Ragay

Kiko's Travellers Inn Quirino Highway, Brgy. Lower Sta. Cruz Ragay, Camarines Sur 5 rooms / rates Php 250-750

San Jose

Peñafrancia Beach Resort Zone 4, Brgy. Sabang San Jose, Camarines Sur 8 cottages / rates / Php 600 12 open cottages / rates Php 200-250

Sañgay

Weinert's Guesthouse Pacific & Beach Resort Brgy. Sto. Niño, Sagñay, Camarines Sur Tel. (54) 454-7001 8 rooms / rates Php 600-1600

Costa Peninsula Beach Resort Brgy. Nato, Sañgay, Camarines Sur 6 rooms / rates Php 200-800

ZF Guerson Beach Resort Brgy. Sto. Niño, Sañgay, Camarines Sur 2 rooms / rates Php 400-1,000

Sipocot

Celmar Hotel National Highway Brgy. Impig, Sipocot, Camarines Sur Tel. 6060 20 rooms / rates Php 200-600

Traveller's Inn Quirino Highway Brgy. Gaongan, Sipocot, Camarines Sur Tel. 6611 6 rooms / rates Php 150-200

Villa Ma. Esperanza Resort Brgy. Taisan, Sipocot, Camarines Sur Tel (54) 256-6600 10 rooms / rates Php 350-1,500

Regions
All the regions are red-linked. I don't see a region discussion. Does the traveler benefit from dividing this province into regions for the purposes of Wikivoyage? If so, should the regions be the ones mentioned in the "Regions" section? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:20, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
 * There are only four city articles for Camarines Sur. I think it will be a long-time before we need to subdivide it. Sub-region articles should be created before city articles. Ground Zero (talk) 14:06, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Camarines Sur


text:
Talk:Cambodia

Archives
Oof! The editing of CIA data suggests that this article is ripe for defactbookization. Anyone up for it? --(WT-en) Evan 23:40, 4 Jan 2004 (EST)

Responsible Tourism
Comments would be appreciated on the efforts of the non-profit organization, Heritage Watch, encouraging travelers to visit businesses that have been certified Heritage Friendly would be appreciated. Heritage Friendly certification indicates that these businesses are supporting the arts, culture and heritage of Cambodia in various ways as well as contributing to development projects. It is our opinion that people should be encouraged to patronize these businesses while visiting Cambodia and the ability to recognize the logo is helpful. Thank you jpatokal for your comments by the way and suggesting a discussion here.

 * I would be OK with a mention under Buy, as currently in Phnom Penh, but not the listings themselves, since your "certification" expires yearly. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:51, 27 January 2009 (EST)

Mines
I've edited the section on land mines to better reflect reality. As I've written, 99.9% of tourists will never be at any risk of stepping on a mine. It's important to be aware of the issue of mines that the country as a whole faces, but to present the threat to tourists as anything other than virtually nonexistant is irresponsible. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 24.85.171.109 (talk • contribs)

 * I've undid your edit. It's more important to give all potential travelers advice, not just tourists.  We hope our guides will be useful to the NGO volunteer who will spend 95% of his/her time in the places that tourists will never go and that may be in a very isolated place with the risk of mines. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 00:47, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

 * Even still, what I've written applies to non-tourists as well. Very few people make it out to areas such as those affected by land mines, NGO workers included. The only NGO workers who spend time in mine affected areas are demining crews, and they certainly have better knowledge than this site could ever hope to provide. We are not a conventional guidebook, we do not have to be politically correct. A better statement on my part would be that no foreigner has ever fallen victim to land mines of any kind. In practical terms, no one outside tourists uses these guides anyways.

 * I'm obviously not an expert on Cambodia, but the new text seems reasonable to me, although the "you will never see a land mine text" may be going a bit far. My understanding is that the danger to tourists from landmines in Cambodia is on par with the danger in the Falkland Islands, so providing similar warnings - basically "be aware that there is a potential danger and ask locals when venturing into less-traveled areas" - should be sufficient. -- (WT-en) Ryan (talk) 02:15, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

 * I've toned down the text a little. I'm also fairly sure there have been foreign casualties due to mines: the Khmer Rouge, for one, liked to ambush trains with mines and several foreigners were killed in an attack near Sihanoukville in the 1990s. Of course this is a little different from just stepping on an old one by accident... (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:33, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

I just returned for Cambodia 4/19/08. Although we never considered landmines in the cities, temples or beaches, there were frequent reminders that they are still a danger. From the bus between Phnom Pehn and Siem Reap, we saw several Land Mine warning signs not far from the road on Highway 6. We were told they are still fairly common in the Northeast provinces, especially "off the path" near bridges and the borders. You won't stuble across one as you tour Angkor Wat, but it would be smart to at least advise travelers to consult local guides before wandering off on their own when away from the cities.- shadomoon

Prices
Kampong Cham lists all prices in US dollars. Is use of the dollar in Cambodia so widespread, and so more prevalent than use of the local currency, that we should make an exception to the prices guidelines on accommodation listings and friends? I think this is a case where the traveller comes first and we shouldn't list prices out in the local currency if travellers will never see those prices; however, I'd like to know if that's the case. --(WT-en) Evan 10:31, 6 Dec 2005 (EST)

 * Costs for Cambodia should be listed in USD. In practice, travellers only use riel as small change - prices are quoted in USD, payments made in USD, even the ATMs issue USD (and not riel).

 * Interesting. Do non-US travellers change money into US$ before going to Cambodia? --(WT-en) Evan 12:00, 6 Dec 2005 (EST)

 * Virtually always. You can spend Thai baht (& get a competitive rate) in the areas bordering Thailand, but otherwise you need to bring in USD (&/or TCs, but USD is easier to work with). Prior to 2005 no ATMs; currently just a handful in Phnom Penh (Siem Reap to follow suit round about now). Even amongst non-tourists, USD is the preferred currency for amounts over and above a couple of beers.

 * Our anonymous friend is correct. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:32, 6 Dec 2005 (EST)

 * Please don't use "USD", which is a currency code, not a word. "US$" is the correct abbreviation for "US dollar". (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:37, 26 March 2007 (EDT)

 * Wasn't sure where this should go on the discussiong page, but the entry about using a cell phone SIM card does not match my experience in the past month. CellCard sells cards for around $2.  It's pay-as-you-go.  They take a copy of your passport and have you fill out a form, and that's it.

Over the years our page dealing with currency in our Manual of Style has simplified and streamlined its advice.

Currently the Cambodian riel is not one of the "universally known currency notation exceptions" and a price should be listed like KHR1,234 rather than 1,234 riel.

Since the US dollar is also used as a parallel currency in Cambodia, if we were to lobby for a change, it would also imply that we would switch from the USD25 notation to the 25 US dollars notation for another Cambodian exception to maintain symmetry wouldn't it? --118.93nzp (talk) 00:37, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

 * I have no first-hand knowledge of Cambodia. On the subject of currencies, my understanding is the following: a) WV recently decided to go with USD in preference to US$. I too prefer the ISO standard. b) The convention on Cambodia articles when I joined was "US$x" and "x riel". I have followed this convention and see no problem with it (taking into account the recent switch to "USD"). c) My assumption has been, perhaps unfounded, that Cambodian ATMs dispense USD. Can someone confirm this? d) I have no "religion" when it comes to currency notation except that I have a bias towards ISO standards where they make sense. In Thailand, e.g., one rarely sees "THB" or even "฿" so we elected to use the "USDx/x baht" convention.Seligne (talk) 02:52, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

 * Like much of this MoS stuff, it's no big deal either way and we certainly don't want to give the impression - either to new editors or seasoned editors like yourself that have been adding great content - that it is. Normally, due to my work patterns, I've done insignificant and trivial copy editing that doesn't require a huge time commitment and that I can abandon at a moment's notice with no great regrets. That said, I do like simple and consistent rules that I can apply as I work through an article section by section and, for that reason alone, I just love the new simplified rules that mean I use the three letter ISO standard unless the country is found in that list of exceptions or the case is an exception for some other reason. Turning to your lettered points, Seligne:
 * a) Yes, we have three possibilities for the Greenback:
 * i) USD - used everywhere except for the countries where it is an official currency
 * ii) $ symbol - used in the USA everywhere except where it would be ambiguous, when we revert to USD
 * iii) strange situations where we might need to use the full prose of US dollar(s)
 * b) Yes, there's no urgent need (except perhaps for a StarNom) to make edits that just correct these old but perfectly understandable formats. However, when copyediting a section or page and making a variety of corrections, it would be best practice to follow our current wv:$ page and change US$123 to USD123 and 123 riel(s) to KHR123
 * c) Unfortunately I have been to most of the countries of the world at one time or another and I can remember receiving US dollars out of an ATM in Siem Riep. I seem to remember that it had something that I thought odd in the name at the time like Candia or Canada or something phonetically similar...
 * d) I also prefer something that's been thrashed out by the ISO experts - often after long years of debate, other things being equal.
 * Conclusion: if we've understood each other, we both think that there is no need to argue for a new exception to be made to wv:$ in the case of Cambodia. --118.93nzp (talk) 05:18, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Later: seems like my memory was accurate. See http://www.canadiabank.com/atm_moneygram.aspx --118.93nzp (talk) 05:24, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Respect
I added content to the respect section. The things I put I feel are highly relevant based on what I personally observed while in Cambodia. Many tourists go there with a hardcore bargaining mindset, while Khmers themselves are rather meek and mellow bargainers and not hard to get the best price of. Some tourists will spend endless hours haggling for the best possible price, then go to a western owned bar and buy $20 worth of drinks without so much as an "eep" of protest, which is downright disrespectful. (WT-en) Brian Hnatiak

Agreed, with one exception: taxi/motodup/tuktuk drivers. Especially in the larger cities, they try to rip off tourists. It has happened to me on several occasions after walking away from a driver they came after me, dropping the fare they asked by half or even 4 times. (WT-en) Hans Hoppe

I second Hans Hoppel's comment about drivers in Phnom Penh and Siem Reap. Especially around the backpacker or tourist areas, they will try to convince you (beyond bargaining) that it should be that expensive. Persistence and be willing to walk away often leads them to agree to a reasonable price, but not always. Also, be absolutely sure they've agreed to the price before you get on. If they just ignore you or kind of nod, they're going to try to get more out of you at the end of the trip. It's true about not bargaining down to bone in the markets, as well. Aiming for a middle ground where both of you are happy usually works out for the best.

Tipping
The tipping customs would be a welcome addition. It should probably be included on every national page, and every subnational page where the tipping customs differ within the country.

From out recent visit, we learned to tip 1000 riel for a normal restraunt, 1500 riel for a nicer one (we're not talking about the 5-star resorts, but the local communities). Do not leave the money on the table or in the receipt holder (they will think you just forgot it), but place it directly in the hand of the server. Even though many restraunts are fairly westernized, most seemed a bit confused about the concept of a gratuity. This seems like a small amount, and I'm sure even a $1 bill would be welcomed. Most meals are priced about $4, so a big meal and Cokes for two comes in under $15 total.

Are euros accepted?
Some shops in New York City have started accepting Euros in addition to dollars. Are Euros being accepted in Cambodia yet?

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0655798320080206 http://www.nypost.com/seven/05252008/news/regionalnews/euro_welcome_112484.htm

141.76.45.34 21:55, 30 May 2008 (EDT)

 * Moneychangers are happy to exchange them, but no, the general public will not. (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:55, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

 * It's definately an option, when you travel from Europe. I go to Cambodia avery year. The exchange rate is better than in Europe. So you can exchange Euro to Dollar. Every money changer will do it. -- (WT-en) DerFussi 05:19, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

EVisa Does ist work?
Mates,

does anyone used the eVisa Service in the last month? I travel to Cambodia in March and would like to avoid the visit at the Cambodian Embassy because the work to apply for a visa is rather heavy compared to an online option. (WT-en) jan 05:40, 7 January 2009 (EST)

 * You don't need to do either -- most visitors can apply for and receive their visas right at the border. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:42, 7 January 2009 (EST)

 * You should use the e-visa. I'ts very easy and reliable. Especially if you want to enter Cambodia via land. The behaviour of the staff at the Cambodian checkpoint is unbelievable meanwhile. Its a terrible rip-off. Especially at the border point Trat/Koh Kong. They accept only Thai Baht (although it cost 20 Dollar). I got a report that all travellers of one bus had to reimmigrate to Thailand and go to an ATM to get Baht. And nobody can stop that cause Koh Kong is far away from Phnom Penh. I wrote a letter to the secretary of the ministry of tourism about the situations at the border checkpoints and the embassies cause he asked for a report but its still not possible to get this under control. I go to Cambodia every year and get feedback from many travellers. If you enter by plane you can get your visa on arrival at the airport of Siem Reap or Phnom Penh. This year I spent a week in Kuala Lumpur before going to Cambodia. You can apply for your visa in KL. It takes only one day and costs 80 Ringgit (around 20 Dollar). Its really easy and a good option. -- (WT-en) DerFussi 08:42, 19 February 2009 (EST)

 * It really depends how far your are from the Cambodian Embassy in your Country. The EVisa at 25$ means to spend 5 dollars more which might be easely spent by travelling from yr home to the Embassy. I think EVisa is worth. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 119.82.253.137 (talk • contribs)

 * The situation is the same as (WT-en) Jpatokal made out back in 2009: most nationalities can get the visa on arrival at the land border or airport. Therefore the extra $5 is an unnecessary expense.(WT-en) Travelpleb 08:17, 26 May 2012 (EDT)

Regions
This article currently shows six regions. I propose some changes:

 * Merging the Cardomom Mountains and Elephant Mountains into one region (this is an almost continuous mountain range).

 * Redefining the Central Plains as The Mekong Lowlands and Central Plains (better term that travellers will easily relate to).

 * Merging Rattanakiri and Chhlong Highlands into one region and for want of a better name, just calling it Eastern Cambodia. Otherwise, we will have two very small regions in the east.  This also allows use of the Mekong as a highly practical and relevant dividing line between the central plains/lowlands and the east.

Then we would have four similarly sized regions with provinces assigned as follows:

Cardamom and Elephant Mountains
 * Provinces: Pursat (Pousat), Koh Kong, Battambang, Kampong Spoe, Kampot, Kep, Pailin, Sihanoukville.

Mekong Lowlands and Central Plains
 * Provinces: Phnom Penh, Takeo, Kandal, Kampong Cham, Kampong Chhnang, Kampong Thom, Kratie to the west of the Mekong, Prey Veng, Svay Rieng

Eastern Cambodia
 * Provinces: Mondolkiri, Rattanakiri, Kratie to the west of the Mekong, Stoeng Treng to the east of the Mekong

Dangrek Mountains
 * Provinces: Banteay Meanchey, Oddar Meanchey, Preah Vihear, Siem Reap, Stoeng Treng to the west of the Mekong.

I think this makes sense but comments please! --(WT-en) Burmesedays 03:12, 26 November 2009 (EST)

 * Comments from anyone who has been to Cambodia or has an informed interest in the country really would be appreciated as I have a good looking map pretty much done aside from the regional borders. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 05:15, 1 December 2009 (EST)

 * I won't claim to be an expert on Cambo, but calling any region spanning Siem Reap "Dangrek Mountains" seems a little odd to me, as the area is flat as a pancake, and this is the only part 99% of visitors to the region see. Would "(North)Western Cambodia" be too misleading? (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:07, 3 December 2009 (EST)

 * Point taken although a fair bit of Siem Reap province is mountainous and the Dangrek Mountains span the north of it. But as few visitors ever get further north than Angkor, I guess it could be confusing. North-Western Cambodia would be fine for me.  Another option would be to split the Siem Reap province with the flat bit going into Mekong Lowlands and Central Plains.  Have you been to Laos Jani?  If so please have a gander at my regional proposal there. Cheers.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 08:20, 3 December 2009 (EST)

 * Done and map uploaded. Comments are still very welcome. I think it works quite nicely now though. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 23:10, 5 December 2009 (EST)

Regions - list of cities policy
I note that Sen Monorom was added to, reverted from and then again added to the cities listed against Eastern Cambodia in the Regions section. This occurred while I was contemplating where this city was best placed because it had previously been put into the city list and then reverted simply because there were more than 9 cities listed. So what is the policy for including cities in the regionlist that are not also mentioned in the Cities section? - 10:22, 3 January 2010 (EST)

 * I am not sure I understand that question. Do you mean which cities can be added to the regionlist table in the country article? If so, I would say that with a country like Cambodia where there are not, nor ever will be, too many, the answer is all of them. Looking at the edit history, Sen Monorom was only ever reverted from the list of 9 cities (correctly), not from the regionlist table. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:49, 3 January 2010 (EST)

 * We do not have a policy on what types of items or how many items can be listed under the regionitems field of the regionlist template. (Trying to come up with a good one would be a pain...) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 11:17, 3 January 2010 (EST)

Cambodia and the French
An understanding of Cambodia should include a mention of the French colonial period. It should at least mention that taxes were levied, and resources taken. As to whether in line with our guideline on tone that translates to "plundered" - well to the extent it is an exaggeration I believe it is with our guidelines. --(WT-en) inas 03:25, 25 February 2010 (EST)

 * Quite correct. The French are sometimes very sensitive about their inglorious colonial past.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 03:33, 25 February 2010 (EST)

You peoples not knowing Cambodia history. It is very wrong to writes France so bad to country. They saved Cambodia from Thailand who wanted country. They build many beutiful buildings. They build roads. They left wonderful food. if French so bad then why many of Cambodia peoples and some Royals people go live there now. If you wants to write about bad foreigh peoples why not America -> they bombed this country with much bombs aftar 1970, they give support and muchs money to KR aftar Viet Nam help to liberate from KR. I want change word about French becaus what you write is wrong and I wants adds words on bombing. Thanksyou - Sopheap Phay

I largely agree with Mr. Sopheap Phay and so when I have more time I will modify the content. (and before anyone accuses me of French biase, I am Hendrik, a S.African currently living in Siem Reap.)

 * OK, as noted above I have started an edit to better reflect the history, including: (i) to claim the French taxed the country suggests this was somehow unique .. all governments do! The Khmer people were taxed (heavily) before the French, they were taxed after the French and are still taxed, (ii) some of the taxes levied by the French administration were used for the good of the country, inc. building the infrastructure, laying out towns & cities, most especially Phnom Penh & undertaking restoration work on Angkor Wat & other significant cultural sites without which they would be in a very worst state today, and (iii) added about the US bombing that was instigated by Richard Nixon, this did untold damage to huge areas of the country. And, before I am accused of any biase I am South African, am not pro-French and I am not anti-American, I was just adding content to the article (I do confess though to finding the content had been a little anti-French and the omission of any mention of the devastating carpet bombing could be seen as whitewashing of what some have claimed was a US war crime.) When I have more time I will undertake some more edits of the housekeeping type. Hendrik.

 * By and large good edits I think.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 09:58, 1 April 2010 (EDT)

Photo of e-visa logo
Can anyone think of any good reason why that should be in the article? I'm wracking my brain and can't come up with one. If no-one can come up with an important reason to keep the photo, it should be deleted. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 06:02, 7 May 2012 (EDT)
 * Agreed(WT-en) Travelpleb 10:56, 7 May 2012 (EDT)
 * Thanks for your second opinion. I have removed the photo. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 16:04, 7 May 2012 (EDT)

Deleted Cambodia: Buy
Jpatokal, you deleted this whole section with no explanation. Can you explain your reasoning? Thanks, Seligne (talk) 05:11, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

 * Try scrolling down a bit or looking at the diff a bit more carefully, my edit added 11 bytes. I just moved the currency info to the top where it belongs, and the random shopping tips to the end. Jpatokal (talk) 10:36, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

A lack of salt intake causes dehydration?
This sounds inaccurate to me. Is it nevertheless true? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:28, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

 * Well, rehydration involves an intake of water and salts lost via sweating or diarrhoea. I think that is what it is trying to say.  Not sure about the soy-sauce, though.  --Inas (talk) 04:43, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

 * Curious about this I consulted the Mayo Clinic, Rice U, et al., websites. Not one mentions a lack of salt as a cause or dehydration. Most advise that too much salt and not enough water can lead to an even more serious condition. FYI, here is the Mayo Clinic: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dehydration/DS00561/DSECTION=causes. Seligne (talk) 05:15, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

 * That's what I would have expected. And therefore, this misinformation should be deleted if it hasn't already been deleted (I'll check). Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:08, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Cambodia Article Conventions (Feb 2014)
''This is a summary of the conventions used on Cambodia articles. All are either codified in the Manual of Style or were arrived at by discussion or custom.''
 * Currency: KHR (most prices in USD)
 * Temperature: Celsius
 * Time: 24-hour clock
 * Measurements: Metric
 * Spelling:: British English
 * Telephone numbers: A Cambodian landline number should be listed like:

+855 nk 123-4567 where "855" is the country code for Cambodia, the first digit of the area code, "n", will be a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7; the second digit of the area code, "k" will be a digit in the range 2-6. (The leading zero seen domestically is stripped off in the international format.) The remaining 6 or 7 digits (conjoined with a hyphen) are the "local" part of the subscriber's number. Mobile phone numbers begin with a 1, 8 or 9 which is then followed by seven or eight digits. Of course the full number of a mobile phone must always be dialled - so there is no "local" part designated with a hyphen: +855 1 1234 5678 Seligne (talk) 00:23, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Update Jan 2020
The above does not reflect what travellers will see in Cambodia in 2020, so I am going to update this. "Riel" is more common than "KHR", although both are used. "៛" is only used on Khmer-language text, so it is not useful for travellers. Many prices are expressed in "US$" or "$", but not in "USD". U.S. spelling is more common than British spelling.
 * Currency: riel (most prices in US$)
 * Temperature: Celsius
 * Time: 24-hour clock
 * Measurements: Metric
 * Spelling:: American English
 * Telephone numbers: A Cambodian landline number should be listed like:

+855 nk 123-4567 where "855" is the country code for Cambodia, the first digit of the area code, "n", will be a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7; the second digit of the area code, "k" will be a digit in the range 2-6. (The leading zero seen domestically is stripped off in the international format.) The remaining 6 or 7 digits (conjoined with a hyphen) are the "local" part of the subscriber's number. Mobile phone numbers begin with a 1, 8 or 9 which is then followed by seven or eight digits. Of course the full number of a mobile phone must always be dialled - so there is no "local" part designated with a hyphen: +855 1 1234 5678 Ground Zero (talk) 05:39, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Information in the Understand Section seems outdated
So in this section it says: "Much of the population still subsists on less than the equivalent of US$1 a day, the provision of even basic services remains spotty." This is not accurate anymore. According to the UNDP Human Development Report 2015 only 10.1% of Cambodians live on less than $1.25 (purchasing power parity) per day now. (http://www.cambcomm.org.uk/ff.php)

Also they have mobile phone coverage literally everywhere now. We saw some mobile phone towers in some remote floating villages on the Tonle Sap. So quite a transition took place.

Could somebody please edit the article to reflect the new facts? I would try to do it myself but I'm only on my phone and wouldn't want to mess up the article.

Thanks. Thomas —The preceding comment was added by 110.74.221.69 (talk • contribs)

 * Hello and welcome. I would encourage you to add or change anything you know about; don't wait for someone else to do it. Wikis depend on individuals plunging forward. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:38, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Information might be moved to city articles
I deleted the following text from the article, since individual listings belong in the relevant city articles, not the country article. Since it seems informative and well-intended, however, I'm posting it here so the content might be used in the proper places.

Motorcycle Tour Companies

Today there are over 29 motorcycle touring companies in Cambodia to suit most budgets and vary in organizational structure from Khmer owned businesses, to Khmer / western shared partnerships, to foreign principals organizing tours with established ground operators in Cambodia (essentially reselling tours and potentially exploiting local guides financially). As such, quality and safety can be wide and varied. Reputable, authentic ground operators will have a Cambodian Tourism License displayed on their website. Best to research well before undertaking such adventures. Most offer single or multi-day trips across the whole country, great for those that want to get far off the beaten path to see the places that a tourist bus could never reach. Again it pays to do your own research. Below is a list of just a few of the companies currently operating:

Cambodia Expeditions is the longest operating ground handler and tour operator in Cambodia. Established in 1998, they were the pioneers of the motorcycle adventure industry in Cambodia, its earliest roots founded on organized rally raids under the shared banner of Angkor Dirt Bike Tours, until the company was set up officially in 1998 to cater to a wider style of adventurers that preferred full support whilst traveling the remotest areas of Cambodia. Today it is a fully locally owned business, offering high-end tours, with one expatriate employee, and the onus on being fully immersed in the local culture, and having an experienced westerner on the team too. Most local guides have worked with them, and still do. Offering itineraries from single day to 21 days on an all inclusive basis.

Dancing Roads] has been offering tours since 2000, and is an English / Khmer partnership.

Straydog has been running since 2005 and is a foreign owned partnership that is based in Sihanoukville. Offering single day to 14 day itineraries, all inclusive basis except food and drink.

Kickstart is a western/Khmer partnership that has been operating since 2008. Based in Siem Reap, they offer itineraries from half day to eleven days.

JuliasTravels (talk) 16:24, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

 * I'd say the first part of the text is pretty useful. Rather than reverting completely, the individual operators (I see 2 of them stricly based to a city, though) should've been just moved to the respective cities... -- andree.sk (talk) 16:26, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Could this information perhaps fit better in the Motorcycling article, or is this more about tours than motorcycles? What we perhaps want to avoid is touting here, and considering WV:Tour I would think the best thing to do is remove everything except the first paragraph. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk | contributions ) 16:48, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Restaurant price ranges
The price subsections for restaurants in some of our Cambodian city articles are kind of a mess, with some of the "mid-range" restaurants seemingly cheaper than the "budget" restaurants. (For instance in Siem Reap we have a "budget" restaurant for $4.50-17 and a "mid-range" restaurant for $2-5.) Should we try to agree on price ranges corresponding to "Budget", "Mid-range", and "Splurge" for restaurants in Cambodia? Or at least for Phnom Penh and Siem Reap? —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:38, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
 * My perception is that PP is a but much re expensive than SR, but I wasn't in PP long enough to be sure. Here's a stab at pric s for main dishes:
 * Budget US$10.
 * The splurgiest place we've been was Bopha, a lovely riverside resto in PP, where we had a 3-course menu for, I think, US$13. Mains were under $10. I expect you could easily spend more without trying hard. Ground Zero (talk) 14:56, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Those sound about right to me - I was thinking maybe Budget <US$5 (including drink). I didn't notice much of a price difference between PP and SR, but you could be right that PP is a little more expensive. —Granger (talk · contribs) 23:47, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Budget <$5 keeps it simple. That works for me. Thanks for taking this on. Ground Zero (talk) 00:47, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll wait a day or two, and if no one else comments, I'll add templates to Phnom Penh and Siem Reap and start rearranging the subsections accordingly. —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:58, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

1 liner description for Phnom Penh
This description:
 * — the rough, dirty capital

sort of discourages a traveller from going to Cambodia at first sight. Would there be a better description for that? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:29, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I haven't been there, but if it's accurate, it falls under Be fair. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:48, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I have improved it based on my impression of the city early last year. It isn't one of the great cities of the world, but it is a worthwhile stop for those who want to see more of Cambodia than the Angkor complex. Ground Zero (talk) 11:01, 21 July 2021 (UTC)
 * :) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:03, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Notice: Wide-area warning issued for Cambodia, Myanmar and Thailand
In recent months, there is a surge of human trafficking reported in Cambodia, Myanmar and Thailand, where travellers (mainly Taiwanese travellers, Chinese travellers were more common pre-COVID) were tricked by fake job offers, travelled to and abducted in these countries, and forced to work for criminal syndicates like slaves. In response to the trend, I have issued warnings for articles of Cambodia (particularly Sihanoukville), Myanmar (particularly Northern Myanmar) and Thailand.

References (all in Chinese):
 * 柬埔寨人口販賣事件, the article recording the surge on Chinese Wikipedia.
 * Travel warning (highest level) for Cambodia, issued by Taiwanese MFA.
 * Information page by the Taiwanese MFA.
 * News report by Taiwanese investigative journalist The Reporter, covering the background of the surge and involvement of local Taiwanese gangs.
 * News report by Hong Kong newspaper am730.
 * News report by Hong Kong newspaper Ming Pao, illustrating the death of a victim.
 * News report by Hong Kong newspaper Ming Pao highlighting Hong Kong travellers have also fallen into victim, luckily most of them are successfully rescued.
 * News report (in English) by The Diplomat, illustrating the seriousness of the trend.

Please check if there are problems of over-bolding or other grammatical problems, and feel free to add more on advices if necessary.廣九直通車 (talk) 06:41, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

 * Thank you, that's a good addition (the warnings are in 'Work', for anyone else interested). If you haven't already done so, it might be a good idea to add these to zh.wikivoyage.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 07:05, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This seems horrendous and frightful should definitely be mentioned. Thanks for adding them . Agree with tt! that it might be a good idea to add this to zh.voy. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 11:31, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll keep on my sentry work, just like how I made my first warning on COVID for Wuhan (sigh it's almost 2 years and the pandemic still doesn't come to an end...). Will follow up on Chinese Wikivoyage.廣九直通車 (talk) 11:36, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * While the entire Chinese Wikivoyage is mostly empty (that's why I'm more focused in here), I've also ✅ with the warnings at there: see 柬埔寨, 泰国, 緬甸 and 西哈努克. Perhaps after there are no further comments, this thread should be swept to the corresponding article talk pages.廣九直通車 (talk) 13:27, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

 * We do have some cautionary info at Working_abroad, Common_scams and Volunteer_travel. I wonder if those need to be expanded or if some links should be added either in this article or in those.
 * Certainly variations on the problem are fairly widespread. In my own travels I've encountered:

 * Filipinas trapped in exploitive jobs in Saudi Arabia (1980s, not sure if it still happens). She cannot leave the country without an exit visa and getting that requires the boss's signature. He says she's a lazy bitch & he's not signing. She says he beat or raped her, often both. My advice would be don't go anywhere where you'd need an exit visa to leave.
 * An agency charging Chinese nurses large up-front fees for placements in Canada on domestic servant visas taking care of disabled people, mostly Alzheimer's patients. Salary might have sounded good to a Chinese, but it was much less than you'd get working at McDonald's and hours were much longer.
 * Things I've only heard about include an Indian diplomat in the US mistreating domestic help (Devyani Khobragade incident), Fujian girls being smuggled to Taipei being thrown overboard when the Taiwan Coast Guard caught the boats, Snakehead gangs importing prostitutes to the US. Pashley (talk) 14:56, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Here pickers of wild berries are imported from e.g. south-east Asia. They often have to take loans for the journey. The buyers of the berries arrange visa, travel, accommodation, intro, transport to the woods etc., but usually do not employ them. One year the harvest was weak and the pickers couldn't pay the loans. Volunteers helped them go to court to claim employment, but the pickers couldn't afford to stay during the multiple-year process, so they settled at terms they could live with. The berry-pickers are still not regarded employees, but to get visas for their labour, the buyers now need to guarantee a minimum income (and there are more eyes on lodgings, rents etc.). We have also had a number of outright illegal arrangements, mainly in other trades. The common denominator seems to be loans and threat of being expelled from the country for illegal work, in the cases where it isn't about direct slavery. For those who have an income at home, the risk of being expelled isn't a reason to remain in slavery, but if you have family you cannot feed without the foreign income ... The criminals may also threaten you and your family in your country of origin, especially if the justice is weak there. –LPfi (talk) 20:16, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

I support these warnings. Last night I added caution boxes to Tachileik and Myawaddy  on the same issue. And it is not just targetting individuals who speak Chinese. Malaysian and Indonesian were also targetted by the same group of fraudsters. This merits posting in English to reach as wide audience as possible. I do not think this is the typical "run of the mills" employment scams since those commons scams only want your money. The current scam hold you hostage and force you to work for them. OhanaUnitedTalk page 01:30, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

 * I appreciate these kinds of warnings. They are important. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:54, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Update: It seems that not only aspirant workers are falling victim, criminals are also targeting the average travellers. Some may recruit workers in local front companies and traffic victims en masse using company tours, others may use individualized vacation invitation to lure them to these countries (see this report by HK TV Channel i-Cable), all followed up by abduction. I genuinely don't know when will the criminals resort to random abduction if the situation worsens. Given by such worrying scenario, I have raised the warnings to the top of all these articles. Please advice if this is appropriate or they should be send back to stay safe, regards.廣九直通車 (talk) 11:42, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Also thanks to for leaving proper warning, have upgraded these warnings to warningboxbased on the template's usage guidelines.廣九直通車 (talk) 13:40, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I read that Laos may also be one of the destinations. I propose adding the same warning to Laos. OhanaUnited<b style="color: green;">Talk page</b> 22:15, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The warningbox at the top of the article should be very brief. Most of the information could be in Work (not necessarily in a warning box), that relevant also for those not intending to find work in Stay safe. Some of this should probably be in Working abroad and Common scams. –LPfi (talk) 06:36, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for 's and your opinion. I have send these warnings back to "Work" and "Stay safe" (if work is not yet created). Though do you think a very brief warning on the top with link to the more detailed warning is OK?廣九直通車 (talk) 04:16, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The warning starts with: Telecommunication fraud, illegal remote gambling are rampant in parts of Thailand and its neighbours, Myanmar and Cambodia. How does this relate to te rest of the info in the warning box? --FredTC (talk) 06:02, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * You mean the warning for Thailand? I make special remark on Cambodia and Myanmar, because Thailand is a major transit hub for human traffickers to transit victims from their country to their bases in Cambodia and Myanmar, though criminal bases do exist in Thailand (like the notorious "KK園區", not sure what's its English name). The remainder of the warning focus on common methods used by human traffickers and ways to avoid them. If you have concerns about coherence, please make your point clearer, thank you.廣九直通車 (talk) 09:43, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I mean the "Telecommunication fraud, illegal remote gambling" -part of the text. FredTC (talk) 09:58, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * For that part I tried to lay down the context and background. After all, criminals don't traffic and abduct victims for no reason, they do these because they need to recruit manpower for them.廣九直通車 (talk) 03:16, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cambodia


text:
Talk:Cambridge

College ages
The ordering in the 'colleges' section looks wrong to me, although I have no reference to check. It also depends on how you count, as Trinity college was refounded as a merger of two older colleges.

Museum of (no) Technology?
I don't really know enough about the Museum of Technology (like its wacky opening hours) but I would definitely recommend its addition to the Museum section. It is a most excellent day out.

title: Talk:Cambridge


text:
Talk:Cambridge (Massachusetts)

Wikimania 2006
Wikimania will be hosted at Harvard Law School in July or August, 2006. It would be great to see this article filled out enough to be a resource for Wikipedians from around the globe who are thinking about coming to Wikimania. (WT-en) Betsythedevine 10:11, 29 Nov 2005 (EST)
 * I was just reading over the guide (we're off to Wikimania tomorrow) and it's looking super great! Excellent work everyone... I'm looking forward to printing it out and wandering around town with the baby... I'll be sure to do some updates from there too! (WT-en) Maj 22:26, 30 July 2006 (EDT)

External links for editors
Full menus from many Cambridge area restaurants are available at:

http://web.mit.edu/wchuang/www/menus/

Many of these are open late, but I think they are all supposed to deliver. There's also a link to a similar Harvard site, which in turn links to others. I don't think the MIT list is maintained any longer, but most or all of the restaurants listed are well-used by the MIT Student Information Processing Board. -- (WT-en) Beland 21:03, 7 Aug 2004 (EDT)

The opinion of the locals (mostly MIT folk) that I've spoken to is that Border India is quite good, and I think I have gotten posititve recommendations for several of the other Indian restaurants in Cambridge. I do know that one of them catered our wedding, and it was quite yummy. I'll try to look those up when I get back to San Francisco. In short, I would totally disagree that it's necessary to go to Boston to get good Indian food. -- (WT-en) Beland 21:03, 7 Aug 2004 (EDT)

 * Yeah, Border India is pretty good... I wouldn't say fantastic though. I haven't eaten at all the Indian places along Mass Ave., but the ones I've been to have all been quite terrible, in my opinion. I think probably the best Indian place in Cambridge is Punjabi Dhaba, in Inman Sq. I'd feel better recommending that over Border India, especially since we have so many Central Sq. listings already. It's also a unique and fun place, insanely cheap, and open LATE. -(WT-en) Nickpest 14:02, 8 Aug 2004 (EDT)

 * OK...I'm constructing an Inman Square section on my user page; I'll mention Punjabi Dhaba. -- (WT-en) Beland 23:02, 11 Aug 2004 (EDT)

Does Grendel's still serve fodue? It was somewhat famous for that in its pre-fire days. -- (WT-en) Beland 23:02, 11 Aug 2004 (EDT)

Oh, and is the Greenhouse in Harvard^2 a good vegetarian restaurant? I've eaten there and liked its light fare, but I wasn't thinking like a veggie. But I think I may have heard it recommended as such. --(WT-en) Beland 00:47, 12 Aug 2004 (EDT)

 * Yeah I'm pretty sure Grendel's still does fondue.. though I've never had it before.. as far as the Greenhouse, I'm not a fan and certainly wouldn't recommend it. Though that's based on an experience I had way back in '96 when all I wanted was a coffee and there was a minimum of $5 per person (!) .. mind you I was with friends and they had each ordered well over $5 worth of food ... and the coffee was awful to boot ;) -(WT-en) Nickpest 02:09, 13 Aug 2004 (EDT)

So.. I'm thinking of adding a "Cafes" heading to the "Eats" section. There's a few cafes in Cambridge (and Boston for that matter) that aren't really restaurants in their own right, but would be great places for someone visiting to sit down, have a cup of coffee or tea, and take in the scenery. So, aside from the ubiquitous Dunkin' Donuts and Starbucks.. what cafes are noteworthy in the Cambridge area? There's 1369 (Inman & Central), Diesel (though that's Somerville), Toscanini's (Harvard & Central, and amazing ice cream), Tealuxe in Harvard, and that place in Porter that I can't remember the name.. they have a really good tea selection though. -(WT-en) Nickpest 02:27, 13 Aug 2004 (EDT)

 * There's always Au Bon Pain. The procedure to find an Au Bon Pain is to go to a T stop and look around.  8)  The one in Harvard Square is even all famous because of Good Will Hunting. --(WT-en) Beland 22:41, 14 Aug 2004 (EDT)

Hmm...after reading the Crimson article, I'm not going to recommend Grendel's for fondue. It sounds like it's only a shadow of its former self. Funny, I thought the reason they had closed was because of a kitchen fire. I guess that was just a rumor. -- (WT-en) Beland 22:51, 14 Aug 2004 (EDT)

Putting the link to the Crimson article on the front page because it's not appropriate for inclusion into Wikivoyage; it's general background info not applicable to contemporary travelers unless they're curious about the history of the place. -- (WT-en) Beland 22:58, 14 Aug 2004 (EDT)

title: Talk:Cambridge (Massachusetts)


text:
Talk:Cambridge (Ontario)

Why has this article been reduced to a stub? OK, I admit that my listing for Calvary church was "proselytis-y" but why not just remove the offending listing and leave the rest of the page intact?(WT-en) ElectroSpace 11:15, 23 April 2011 (EDT)
 * Hmm. I have no idea how I ended up doing that. I have restored it now. (WT-en) texugo 11:49, 23 April 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Cambridge (Ontario)


text:
Talk:Camden (New Jersey)

Fair warning, don't travel to Camden. Maybe the river front, but becareful. It's basically one of the most dangerous citys in America. 2 years in a row it was number one. If you get lost there, you won't get out without being shot or raped or muged. Just an FYI -A South Jersey-ian

The pagebanner
...is an image of the Philadelphia skyline. What gives? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 04:14, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Well, it's viewed from Camden. But do you have a better suggestion? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:58, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

 * If we can find a pagebanner that actually depicts Camden, that'd obviously be the best-case scenario, but failing that, I think the current one is misleading enough that the default banner is actually preferable. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:12, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Camden (New Jersey)


text:
Talk:Cameron Highlands

Hi Readers,

If you get to Malaysia I would recommend visiting the Cameron Highlands, it's a beautiful place and the scenery is fantastic.

I spent 3 days here with my wife in April 2006, we had a really great time and the locals were very friendly.

It is a very cheap place to stay and would recommend traveling as far north west as you can as the views are better and more wild.

The weather here is quite wet and climate is cooler, but once you start hiking, it can get humid.

There is many things to see here and I enjoyed walking up the hills to some of the tea plantations and check out Cactus Valley.

I won't give to much else away, as I'll ruin the surprise, enjoy it folks!

Glen from England

Content
Please explain why the content in the "Understand" section and "The mysterious disappearance of Jim Thompson" box should be deleted. I realize that the stuff in the box is inessential, so if you feel very strongly that it's less interesting than distracting, I can understand that. But what's wrong with the stuff in "Understand"? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 01:53, 4 February 2011 (EST)

 * I am similarly perplexed by the editing being performed by the anonymous IP 220.255.X.XXX.

 * 1. Deletion of the material in the understand section, indeed not just deletion of material but the whole section. Either correct it or improve it, don't just delete it. It seems to describe the situation and location reasonably well. I also note that this content deletion has now required a re-instatement by several WT editors
 * 2. Similarly the listing for The Lord's Cafe alt Formerly - T's Cafe, why is this being deleted? The edit notes refer to an "incomplete name", the reasonable assumption is that this IP editor must therefore know of a 'fuller' or more complete name, why then not enlighten us all and just put in the full name, why delete the entry?
 * 3. There has recently been a series of irresponsible and unproductive edits to this article, this is a good example. An IP editor reverted all the prior edits to such things as km, hr, min, AM, PM. Tel formatting, removal of a wikipedia link from a listing URL field, and instead re-instated a whole bunch of inappropriate images, re-capitalised content and re-touted previously de-touted listings. Indeed the inappropriate images had been placed into the article at a previous time and were removed, re-instated and removed again. Later they were put back in and subsequently removed again.
 * 4. "Boutique" hotel is a descriptive term, no need to remove that description unless it is factually inaccurate.
 * 5. The removal of the long spiel on some character who disappeared there in the past. Not sure about the appropriateness to an info box but if it has some bearing on the context or history of the area then I cannot see a huge problem with it. It seems the story at least connects with the history of a significant local attraction, it is therefore not appropriate to delete it, especially without explanation on the talk page, and more so when it has been re-instated by other editors. However I think this IP editor is possibly deleting it because he put it there in the 1st instance.
 * 6. Country Side Tour by Kang Tours & Travel listing is a bit borderline on WT tour policy as they just seem to be packaging a bunch of destinations together, however when I earlier considered that listing myself I could not reconcile it against "value added" and so left it there after cleaning it up a bit in regard to page display issues it had. Perhaps it should remain deleted as this business is already listed several times in the article and the individual operations are clearly connected and clearly there is some considerable effort being made to use this article to promote and cross promote the activities of that business. These operations share a website, phone numbers and addresses. Indeed Jungle Bar, Daniel's Lodge Jungle Travelers Bar, Daniel's / Kang Travellers Lodge, Kang Travellers Hotel and Kang tours all seem to be the same operation and as per WT policy should only have one listing here.
 * 7. This article has been in a bit of a mess in regard to fulfilling WT formatting and content guidelines. Recent improvements to the formatting and presentation of existing content, re-formatting to WT style guidelines have all been reverted by what appears to be a single IP editor operating from a quite narrow IP range.
 * 8. This IP editor appears to be re-instating content that they have previously deleted and deleting content they have previously re-instated. Really the interest in mysterious disappearances, the Singapore IP, the general interest in the Cameron Highlands and the edit histories kind of gives away who you are. Try and be more positive and productive in your edits or just leave it alone. Clearly you know something about the location and can make a useful and productive contribution, however please follow the manual of style. The photos have been removed as they are in breach of WT guidelines in relation to advertising, direct promotion of a business and because there are people in some of the images for which no release has been supplied. (WT-en) felix 16:19, 4 February 2011 (EST)
 * This IP address again deleted the "Understand" section. I think this individual is abusive and should be blocked. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 05:07, 6 February 2011 (EST)

If you don't like the contributions that are coming your way, please do away with the invitation to "Plunge forward".

Status (June 1, 2011): Exaggerations = >5 Grammatical errors = >10 Redundancies = >8 Outdated prices = many.

 * Then change them in line with Wikivoyage guidelines, manual of style etc. Life really is that simple. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 08:14, 1 June 2011 (EDT)

Tours in the Do section
These tour companies may be in breach of standard Wikivoyage polices as detailed in the activity listings guidelines, in particular pertaining to the the provision of tours. The tea company listed is a little different, they are apparently offering something the traveller could not do on their own, assuming that people cannot normally just wander all over that tea plantation unescorted.

Country Side Tout seems to be just packaging something readily available, Rainforest Adventure 2 is borderline as it could be argued that "constitute a value-added activity" provisions apply to that provider.

These two listings seem a bit doubtful, the 2nd more so than the first. -- (WT-en) felix 06:34, 5 February 2012 (EST)

 * For those who prefer to do jungle trekking with a guided tour and travel by 4WD Land Rover. See the largest flower in the world, Rafflesia is the flower of an endangered species of parasitic plant, often nicknamed the corpse flower due to it's rather pungent odor. Itinerary includes visiting an aboriginal village to try out a blow-pipe. Please book in advance and check for Rafflesia availability as the flower is seasonal).

 * This is a regular and cheapest sight seeing tour in Cameron Highlands. 5 major tourist attraction.

title: Talk:Cameron Highlands