text:
Talk:Daejeon

Re: Daejeon's infamous Hitler bar. One of the last still open Hitler theme-bars in Korea was located in Daejeon, last confirmed late 2008, in the upmarket area around Seodaejeon Korail station. Given this question gets asked a LOT around town, does anyone know if it is still standing? (WT-en) Snave 10:57, 28 November 2010 (EST).

 * If you don't know then it should come out, and when someone takes it out please do not put it back in as you did in your edit of (14:20, 27 February 2011). The query and the listing detail, if there is any, belongs here on the discussion page. (WT-en) felix 11:45, 1 March 2011 (EST)

It concerns me a little that this page immediately links to another city-specific but otherwise extremely similar community run page instead of having some of that wealth of information duplicated here too. As nice as many of the linked sites are, the wiki format is viewable on Korean phones, even on the very crappy (hire) models if routed through Google first, something next-to-no other Korean travel websites, and NONE of the government operated ones can say. This is far from a trend in Daejeon alone, but across Korea in general. (WT-en) Snave 11:49, 28 November 2010 (EST)

 * Yes (WT-en) Snave, that is why we reduce the image thumbnnail sizes, so they can load readily on such devices and for those hobbled with slow connections.
 * Please do not revert similar corrective edits to image sizes again as you did in your edit of (14:20, 27 February 2011) of (14:20, 27 February 2011).
 * If you think an external link is in breach of the WT external links policy then just remove the link and state why in the edit summary.
 * The current link however does conform to guidelines so despite your own personal issues with official Korean tourism sites the current link is appropriate to the article. I suggest you do not remove it. -- (WT-en) felix 11:45, 1 March 2011 (EST)

I have somewhat apprehension towards suggesting the water is drinkable. I know that's the official word, but locals have told me of a serious incident only a year or so back.(WT-en) Snave 13:03, 22 January 2011 (EST)

 * Then just don't suggest it. Rather qualify the statement with a caution such as has been done. Second hand anecdote is a bit tenuous and most travellers are already sufficiently paranoid about local water at a destination anyway and most will automatically seek bottled water.-- (WT-en) felix 11:45, 1 March 2011 (EST)

To do notes (to move beyond a mere "guide"):
 * Continual propositions to relocate the capital down here away from the border, but sources and research required. Needs minor reference to Sejong city to the north to match claims on provincial page. Inset box if any clear explanations of the unusual history can be sourced?
 * Missing wartime history, located on a large open field hosting a few major battles.
 * Missing local specialty food styles (inland food, nuts) and local soju brand, plus references to local ginseng trade.
 * Minor reference to Daedok Techno Valley needed, even if just on a map.
 * Overview transport map of Daejeon's five gu and relative intercity bus locales with basic insets showing train/bus/subway interchange areas at Yuseong, Daejeon and Seo-daejeon.
 * Secondary attractions / pedestrian navigation map of strip: City Hall -> Dunsan -> Government Center -> Expo Park/Convention Center.
 * Map of subway line (with proposed second line dotted on?).
 * Details of new aquarium on Mt Bomun.
 * Brickhouse Daejeon bar.
 * A rumoured third shisha bar.
 * More unusual restaurant listings.
 * Some notable independant coffee shop listings?
 * Climate date (where from? lack of predence in Korean articles)

 * I question that this article is even suitable for Guide status, especially if filled up with POV and subjective opinions and lacking in adaquate sleep and eat section detail. (WT-en) felix 11:45, 1 March 2011 (EST)

---
 * Weather data- World Map of the Köppen-Geiger climate classification updated, Meteorologische Zeitschrift, Vol. 15, No. 3, 259-263 (June 2006)--Gebrüder Borntraeger 2006. Korean meteorological authority. Korean Meteorological Authority-Climate -- (WT-en) felix 21:38, 23 February 2011 (EST)

Water
I have somewhat apprehension towards suggesting the water is drinkable. I know that's the official word, but locals have told me of a serious incident only a year or so back. No matter how many official sources say so, a good travel article should warn on experience, not cite on quotes.(WT-en) Snave 13:03, 22 January 2011 (EST)

 * This is the second time you have raised this on the discussion page so it is apparently an issue with you. The introduction of second hand anecdote is of little value. Better to just state the facts and recommend bottled water if appropriate. I think it is borderline Capt Obvious in any case as most travellers are already sufficiently paranoid about any destinations water supply that they reach for bottled water without prompting. The current "Daejeon's tap water is "drinkable" however residents tend to boil their water or purchase afforable bottled water, or fill their own bottles at local parks or at the mountain springs that surround town." appears to cover that quite adequately but if you feel it needs more emphasis just recommend bottled water in the article, it is not really an issue that justifies a lot of rumination. Please do not add any more cites, quotes, (non WT) external links or frontlinked URLs to the article to clarify drinking water or any other issues. -- (WT-en) felix 11:45, 1 March 2011 (EST)

Etc
Dump from article:

Re: Yuseong hot srpings. These hot springs are known to be effective in countering many kinds of maladies. Wounded soldiers of the Baekje Dynasty are said to have been healed after taking a bath in these springs. Kings and presidents including the first King of the Josun Dynasty, have reposed here. Containing alkaline minerals such as calcium, and potassium, sulphur, carbonic acid, silicic acid and radium and are considered to be beneficial in treating neuralgia and geriatric diseases. Accommodations are available nearby.

Unsure where this belongs, if at all. Reads suspiciously like copied off an external site word for word. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) User:Snave (talk • contribs) Snave

 * If you don't know, or you are "unsure" then why provide unsigned commentary that suggests it is a copyvio. If you wish to accuse another established editor of a copyvio have the decency to sign the allegation and provide a source that illustrates the claim. Good luck finding a copyvio source other than in your own imagination. The information was drawn from several separate authoritative sites and formed into prose to give some background information on this frequently referred to and touristic feature of the city. If you wise to dispute the value of the listing and it's worth to the traveller than state that here, otherwise put the slander in your rear trouser pocket and sit on it. (WT-en) felix 11:45, 1 March 2011 (EST)

Continual Edit War
Unfortunately, I'll have to call in 3rd party arbitration on this article due to spammy edits by user User:(WT-en) Felix505. I've carefully reverted spammy edits once and they have all returned the next day with a threatening comment, so this has gone beyond a joke. Editing things under the guise of MoS whilst in fact moving away from WT standards is tantamount to trolling regardless of seeming benign intent. Again, my understanding of Wikivoyage is that it is a site that is for travellers to provide useful information in travel guide form to travellers. If one does not travel, then perhaps they should consider the accuracy of their edits. Clobbering existing information about a city you have not visited with dubious stuff sourced online from your bedroom back home (including a lot of Wikipedia info that has been tagged as both lacking citations and incredulous anyway) is a good way to vandalise an article. The present state of this article is yet again incorrect. Some sections have become an absolute mess, others read much nicer than beforehand, but with fictional information.

Examples of petty recent edits have included: Honestly, this type of frivilous editing is what makes me steer clear of Wikipedia, and a good way to make me lose trust in what I read on Wikivoyage as a user. I know that this article now is blatently incorrect and now contains the type of misleading/outdated advice that would get someone stranded somewhere late at night. I just can't fathom the rationale behind these changes short of User:Felix505 attempting to have his name included as the primary credit on the article. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Snave (talk • contribs)
 * Changing romanisation away from local standards used on signage at seeming random.
 * Needless spammy dialectal edits. As much as it pains me to say it as a British English user, this article is in South Korea, a country in which American English (but with SI units and measures) is standard. WT guidelines are clear on this type of edit being banned prior to starnom anyway.
 * Selective removing weak positive and negative criticism (Be Fair) to make entries read strongly positive or strongly negative (yet edit summaries quoting Wikipedia NPOV).
 * Incorporation of non-copyleft sources outside of direct quotes. City guides may be unlikely to contest the use of their material word-for-word, but this does not change the fact. Wikivoyage is a guide, with the tone of a guide, not a "collage" of what comes up first in Google. Even more worrisome is the wholesale replacement of more accurate and up-to-date information.
 * Duplicating information.
 * Rotating Stay, See and Do entries.
 * Changing phonenumbers.
 * Editing things according to Wikipedia MoS. This is Wikivoyage. Different website.
 * Continual re-addition of closed attractions as present.
 * Needless rewording, often completely changing the meaning of of the sentence.
 * Changing directions to point to the opposite end of town.
 * In contrast to these, genuine MoS issues, such as the WallOfText that is the Buy section remain the only parts of the article untouched.

 * I have read the comments on the talk pages and attempted to review edits. A lot has been said and it's a bit difficult for me to follow everything, but I'll give this a go with some suggestions:

 * Changing romanisation away from local standards used on signage at seeming random. - If the issue here is that there is a common English name that differs from the Korean name, it should simply be noted in parenthesis. When listings are formatted properly, it can go in the "alt=" section along with the hangul). If the edits are not related to Korean versus common English spelling, then they need to cease or be explained here.
 * Changing phone numbers - Did you check to make sure the numbers have not changed? If you are positive that the previous phone numbers are correct and the new ones are wrong, then they shouldn't be changed.
 * Continual re-addition of closed attractions as present. The best way to deal with this is to move the closed attractions here to the Talk page (with all the information, just cut and paste) with a statement that they are closed. Then, if someone wants to add them, they'll need to come here first and prove that the attraction is open.
 * From reading the user talk pages, I do agree with you that the 8 sites does not make a good heading. The sites should be put in their proper place (See or Do). The 8 sites MAY however, be worth mention in an info box or a brief paragraph at the start of "See".

 * Some of your other complaints are difficult for me to address without examples. From the talk pages I have a vague idea about some of the things that are happening in this article, but it's difficult to mediate specific content without any personal knowledge of the city or sites.

 * I know that these are annoying (and I also hate Wikipedia editing for the same reason!), but I hope you'll stick around. You've done a tone of great work on this article, as well as others! Hopefully you and Felix can work out these disputes. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 05:43, 28 February 2011 (EST)

 * Per (WT-en) Paul's request on my talk page, I'm joining the discussion. But first, for the record, I think I have to make it clear that, unlike Wikipedia, we have no official arbitration processes here in any way, so please consider the following a fellow user's attempt at consensus building.

 * So, I have read all the discussions (both on this page and the prior discussion on Felix505's talk page) and compared the last version which Paul (Snave) thinks is accurate against the last version edited by Felix505 (full revision difference here). I'm totally alien to Korea, so I guess I may come close to what a potential traveller to town might think when seeing this article.

 * As far as I could follow, here is what I can add to what ChubbyWimbus said above:
 * Railway stations. If official Korean Railways list six stations in town but some (or all) of them are out of operation, I think that should be noted in the article (as a traveller might see those on Korean railway page and plan to use them—which, if I'm not mistaken, as Paul already did). It's best to inform them that no matter what Korean Railways says, they are of no use.
 * Romanization of Korean. I think it would be most useful to use the type that you see on signboards in location. I've also noticed a few misspellings at English words by Felix505 as well, but s/he already made it clear that they are unintentional at somewhere in the previous discussions.
 * Site of station. The station's location was mentioned as on the far north end of town at the Snave's last version, but that was removed somewhere down the line. I actually found that useful.
 * Bolds at bus terminal names. It's OK and indeed useful to bold them.
 * 2500 vs 2.500 vs 2,500 won. Project:Currency says use a ","; but I guess that may be unnecessary if the number in question is shorter than 5 digits long.
 * Likewise, I'd thought the correct style is three subway stations, not 3 subway stations (this was from "understand").
 * If http://tour.daejeon.go.kr/ is an official site, it could be linked per Project:External links, but not as a front-link (i.e., linking like this is OK, whereas like this is not).
 * South side vs west side of the City Hall. I think local knowledge is important here. If still unsure, it may be checked via Google Earth or other online maps.
 * Subway still not opened. Snave's version seems to be more compatible with lively writing that we should aspire for.
 * 5 PM vs 5PM. Project:Time and date formats says the latter is correct.
 * Order of listings. The links at Project:Listings says, "alphabetize them", but I personally think the top attractions should be listed before the other, less-known ones. For example, Balkeshwar Temple should not precede Taj Mahal at Agra article, just because of the first letter of its name when written in Roman alphabet.
 * Eight sights. If that's prominently mentioned in other guidebooks, etc, mention it. But just a mention. Otherwise, divide them among "see" and "do" (and wherever else they should be listed as according to Wikivoyage's MoS).
 * Phone number leads to a park ranger. If the park ranger is the most relevant person that a traveller can make a call to, I guess it's okay. But if the phone number is without a question wrong, they should be changed.
 * Over a decade later and the city still hasn't quite gotten over this is perfectly within the policy set by Project:Tone, so I think should be re-added (I remember having a smile on my face when I first read it about, say, a week ago).
 * All of those museums listed at "do" at Snave's version seemed to be more fitting with "see" to me. Unless they have interactive exhibits which somehow involve the visitor in the "show".
 * "Like all Korean cities...", "As in most of Asia...", etc. I don't see a problem with them staying, although I don't have a strong opinion either way on that. Yeah, that is a bit of duplication, but...
 * Eat listings. As long as we stay fair and avoid no-no words, it's OK to call somewhere overpriced and such (and is indeed encouraged).
 * Theatre vs theater. Project:Spelling basically says use British English for Commonwealth countries, and American English for elsewhere. I myself have used both on this site, but am favouring British English lately although I know it's against the word of the policy. As long as the spellings within the article is consistent, and we don't stray too far into local slangs and obscure dialects (like Pitkern), I'm fine with either.
 * External links at "contact". Unless official, they are out per Project:External links. The rationale is that, we want information here rather than behind a link, as the links are useless for, say, travellers with no internet access and using guides as print-outs.
 * No need to link to city website to prove water is drinkable, but that is a pun there, right? If so, that might need to be clarified (especially for non-native English speakers like me), like by saying that is a common, yet incorrect, claim by city council.
 * I'd say, there is no need to link to "get in" from "get out".

 * Phew, that was long! By the way, I failed to check the differences at "see" listings line by line, since they were so exceedingly moved around (and my eyes have started to ache already), so if there are any specific issues that I might offer an idea (both at that section and others), please let me know.

 * An aside, not very relevant to this particular discussion (but appeared a couple of times at the discussion on Felix505's talk page) is the issue about how many edits one should save when both adding stuff while reverting some "bad" edits at the same time. The most relevant policy is here (see bullet number 4)—in short, revert in one edit, and then add what you want to add in the next one.

 * And lastly, above all, let's please assume good faith. – (WT-en) Vidimian 12:45, 28 February 2011 (EST)

 * (WT-en) Snave seems to be ruminating over some sort of fantasy. I edited the page to remove or tone down POV, opinionated subjective commentary, front linking, random mixed US/UK english, confusing rambling language school promotions and garbled language. I standardised the telephone number prefixes, times, currency style and removed dead URL links. It was all pretty standard editing.

 * I am quite interested to know what content I edited that is allegedly going to "lead to someone being stranded in the middle of the night" as suggested above. That sort of hysterical nonsense makes an interesting trifecta with the belligerence and pure arrogance slathered around on this page by this somewhat confused (WT-en) Snave individual.

 * If (WT-en) Snave wishes to linguistically americanize South Korean articles I have no objection. Although it is adding 2 layers of obfuscation to the core language. His assertion that it is most widely accepted (en) in S. Korea is quite reasonable. However my edits were about establishing one version of (en) across article rather than the miss-mash that was prevailing. Personally I do not support linguistic degradation and see no reason to use WT to promote creeping americanization of the (en) language. That however is just a personal view and I am far from convinced that my own view is supported by any current WT policy.

 * I note that theatres/theatres are referred to as "movie theater" on the Korean tourism website but in common vernacular they generally seem to be known individually as cinemas. CGV Daejeon is an IMAX . Daejeon Art Cinema  do not use the word "theatre/theater" at all apparently preferring to use "Cinematheque" or "Cinema". Millennium Cinema Village Academy Cinema is similar in using cinema. Maybe the article should just use "cinema" as that is the more accepted term in the region, then, hopefully (WT-en) Snave should have no further cause for complaint in that matter. As to changing the whole article to (us) english I do not support it but if consensus is there (from other established editors) to do this and (WT-en) Snave does it in a responsible and thorough manner then I do not object as per his comments that (us) language appears to be quite common in everyday S.Korean English usage.

 * The west-side / south-side of city hall issue was just an artefact from the earlier version and I overlooked (WT-en) Snaves more recent edit to that as it was within a block reversion. If that editor had not performed the revert on my formatting and other corrective edits then such issues would never have arrived. This is what happens when people do silly things like that. Indeed I spent a lot of time trying to extract that editors more responsible and constructive contributions from the edit histories and re-incorporate them into the article.

 * I have now changed the detail concerning buses at the City Hall to read "south". The accuracy of that is however unknown and with some apprehension I am assuming it was an in good faith edit by (WT-en) Snave.

 * I corrected a number of spelling, punctuation and sentence construction errors in the previous version of the article when I did my first edits on the article, subsequently the majority of them were undone by (WT-en) Snave. This sort of destructive editing is not welcome at WT and I have already cautioned him on that. I have swept the article and found more, and corrected them also. I have also since corrected the external link in the Get out section that pointed to the Get in section as I had missed that until (WT-en) Vidimian pointed it out. I have since carefully reviewed my first edit to the article and cannot locate any of the spelling errors or changes to names purportedly introduced.

 * I certainly do not appreciate being held responsible for spelling errors already in the article before I arrived or put back into it by reversions by another editor. In my own initial edit I found one typo, "Airpor" missing a t. Some similar bus information lacked a word space (CheongjuAirport) but that block of content was all revised in one of my later edits. I see no evidence that I introduced any significant spelling errors or typos into the article. In any case despite (WT-en) Snaves distractions any that I may have inadvertently introduced appear to have been swept out in my later edits. I see nothing unusual in my edits or editing behaviour to this article other than that caused by confusion arising from the belligerent distractions and confusion introduced to the process by (WT-en) Snave.

 * (WT-en) Snave has been piling up a litany of accusations, grievances and protestations on my talk page and seems to have been trawling for support on other editors Talk pages. Apparently this person feels some proprietorship over the article and feels slighted by my edits. I have tried to explain to (WT-en) Snave that POV and subjective opinion is somewhat out of place here but he seems to think his lofty overview of the city in which he is a guest is if dire importance to the traveller. Frivolous accusations include that I have been making "spammy" edits, cutting and pasting from Wikipedia and other insinuations and accusations. (WT-en) Snaves motivations remain unclear and I am tired of reading the rubbish this individual is slathering all over the place and rather bored from responding to it. It is difficult to even make any sense of the perceived grievances. Maybe he needs to exercise his creativity and vent his spleen against the city's municipal authorities on a blog somewhere. I am equally tired of his strange slandering and misrepresentations.

 * (WT-en) Snave please either give some examples or put a plug in it and try and learn how to read an edit history. Your self-opinionated nonsense is little better than childish attention seeking. That you think I am deleting things that I have not deleted and adding things that I have not added is probably a matter best handled by a qualified health care professional.

 * As for these 8 sites of touristic interest, I really do not care if they are listed as promoted by the city or not. However the local tourism authorities seem intent on giving them high profile promotion. For that reason alone maybe that should be detailed in the article. Your concept of providing the traveller with information by omission is puzzling, I wonder exactly how that is meant to work. If you have something of value to contribute to those listings by way of useful description or detail then just put it in the article, deleting the attraction because you do not like it is not how things are normally done in WT articles. My normal approach to this sort of listing issue is to do it by ABC down alphabetically. The only reason I have made an exception here is because the 8 sites are so prominently projected by the local tourism authorities and no doubt that  is absorbed by the traveller. Hence my listing them here as a group to assist the traveller in understanding what they are. Six of one half a dozen of the other as far as I am concerned.

 * WT MoS would weigh toward straightforward list most times, so do I. If you feel a walking track is insignificant because it follows a roadway then just describe it as such in the listings detail. That can add value to the article. However removing the listing when it is quite heavily promoted by the regions tourism authorities just leaves an air of mystery hanging over it. It must be remembered that we are doing this to assist the traveller, not to vent our spleen about transgressions by a regional tourism authority as perceived by a short term guest in the city. In regard to the haughty and patronising judgements passed upon my editing by this individual I suggest they might like to dismount from the high horse and give it a rest.

 * (WT-en) Snave appears to have some sort of issue with information sourced from the official sites of the korean rail system, airport, municipal, airlines and korean tourism authorities. Many countries have misleading information on the official websites of rail and bus systems and promotional, possibly exaggerated claims from their regional and national tourism authorities. I do not understand why (WT-en) Snave thinks there is some unique situation prevailing in Korea. Try testing the claims of some of the other nations tourism authorities and you may find some similar themes; sometimes they are just plain simple errors, other times they are wild exaggerations, sometimes blatant nonsense. I have suggested to (WT-en) Snave that if the attractions listed on the official government websites are worthy of some comment or qualification that he should go ahead.

 * As for the fantasy about "changing" phone numbers, what is the insinuation here? Is it being suggested that I am deliberately seeding the article with misleading information. Unless there is an inadvertent typo then the telephone number will be accurate as per the source website or the original article content. If there was previously none and I have added one and there is no 1st level website source then it will come from an alternative yet authoritative source. Adding a country and local area code is not changing a number, it is clarifying it.

 * (WT-en) Snave who on earth do you think you are to throw about such opinionated unsubstantiated and self righteous rubbish. For your information, when I edit I do not just throw in random phone numbers or URLs, I go and look, and check. Perhaps if you thought to check the numbers yourself you might discover they are have been changed by the addition of IDD and area code prefixes in a uniform WT format.

 * Indeed you might benefit from doing a little checking yourself, then you would not make a complete and utter fool of yourself by complaining about my deletion of dead URL links. If you had any idea at all about what you are doing you would have clicked on one of them prior to reverting my edits and then attempting to slander me on at least three Talk pages. Often, as time permits and especially on a somewhat doubtful article such as this one I will not include a URL in an existing listing I am editing unless I can load the page pointed to.

 * As both of those deleted links were front linked I checked them both before editing the content, as they gave 404 error pages I deleted them. No mystery in that, just normal day-to-day WT editing, that is, until you came along and reverted them back again, still dead linked and still frontlinked. Then in a preposterous show of self aggrandisement you start claiming I am edit warring. Indeed you have even titled you grievances here "Continual Edit War". This shows my original edit and this shows (WT-en) Snaves reversion undoing the phone number formatting (no numbers were changed as claimed) re-establishing the dead links, front linking, putting back the previous POV content such as:
 * "poxy-yet-comfortable" — (POV in a sleep listing)
 * "the valley contains a tonne of restaurants, hotels and saunas" — (POV using rather odd promotional language)
 * "Quite the sight to see!" — (POV, promotional language, unnecessary use of exclamation mark)
 * "At the time of adding this entry for example, the theme was (an awesomely creative) "art made for under 10,000 won" — (POV and nonsense sentence)
 * "From the subway station, it's on the opposite side of the government complex itself." — (nonsense sentence)
 * "Furthermore, in consideration of this, these courses are also run at full cost, which is still affordable." — (POV, promotional and nonsense sentence)
 * "They specialise in a wide variety of trinkets including from mass-produced to a few bits and bobs from elsewhere in the country".— (nonsense sentence)
 * "As in most of Asia, the traditional market is located by the train station. The market by Daejeon Station is the general market, really nothing to write home about as far as appearances, the specialty stores are excellent, and you can get plants (from seeds to pots) which are not always easy to come by. Some household goods, and really cheap clothes are on offer, too. — (Factual error - some places have neither trains nor train stations yet have traditional markets whilst other places may have train stations but the traditional market is somewhere distant, POV and nonsense sentence)
 * "Timeworld plays host to an array of overpriced brand outlets" —  (POV-overpriced by whose standards, normally a more neutral term is appropriate, I often use "full" price as it is descriptive and indicative that it may be "expensive" to many people. Some people may think these prices are just normal, hence I consider it to be POV)
 * Amongst the Korean fare, oddball theme restaurants are scattered around town too." —  (nonsense sentence)
 * Note that it is believed Seo-daejeon's infamous Hitler Bar has since closed or been redecorated." — (If it is gone-why re-list it, "believed" - by who?--move to the talk page)
 * "South East Asian import canned and packet food (including Mi Goreng) and phonecards can be found at the International Food shop" — (I guess (WT-en) Snave means Mie Goreng (Indonesian dried instant noodles), that was reverted as well. "Mi Goreng" is a brand name used by Indomie, they are one of the manufacturers of Mei Goreng noodles sold in Korea. If (WT-en) Snave wants to use a brand name instead of a descriptive term then OK but why remove the clarifying factual detail in parenthesis).

 * Other edits that (WT-en) Snave evidently decided to leave un-reverted included such comments as " plonked in the middle of some dude's farm", maybe he understands that is a bit odd, then again maybe Korean farmers have a "dude" category. The origin is a slang term that came into vogue in New York c. 1883, in connection with the ‘aesthetic’ craze of the period, a long way from S.Korea in the 21 C. I have no idea how much of this content (WT-en) Snave wrote nor do I care to trawl through the edit histories to find out, however why he is so protective over such dubious gibberish content is a bit of a mystery. The dude had endured more than a casual article edit by (WT-en) Snave and he had never removed or dealt with it in any of his considerable number of edits on the article. I gather the person concerned teaches English in Korea, I will leave that without further comment.

 * The idea that traditional Asian markets are sited at train stations is a good example of this editors scant understanding. Many places in Asia do not even have rail systems and the logical extension of that is that the edit is absurd, maybe (WT-en) Snave has only visited areas of asia blessed with rail systems and visited markets near train stations. The nonsense POV content was put back in. Even the bits and bobs (sic) was reverted from a more understandable "items" in my edit. The use of "bits and bobs" or the alt. bibs and bobs is somewhat obscure and of limited vernacular, eclectic items. assorted items or just items might be more understandable.

 * (WT-en) Snave also saw fit to revert all the phone numbers in the article back to a mixed range of formatting, reverted all the time formats to non-WT:MoS, reverted the currency formatting to non WT:MoS. Numbers above 999 are meant to be expressed X,XXX in WT articles. The use of a mish-mash of telephone formatting is not helpful and is both visually distracting and untidy.

 * I have been taken to task on my Talk page over a listing for the Zoo. I did not put the Zoo listing in nor did I take it out, I know nothing about the zoo or any of the animals in it or if it is open or closed and I have never suggested that I do. The limit of my involvement was probably a phone number prefix edit.

 * (WT-en) Snave has made some ludicrous suggestions above, I will address some of them, they are all nonsense as far as I can determine:

 * "Spammy edits" I am alleged to have made, what a load of rubbish. — So where are these so called "spammy edits"? Do you even know what "spam" means?

 * "Incorporation of non-copyleft sources outside of direct quotes" — where, is this another unsupported allegation of copyvio?

 * "Needless rewording, often completely changing the meaning of of the sentence." — some of the sentences were bereft of meaning in the first place, some were just gibberish, have you considered this may have been the reason they required "rewording"?

 * "Changing directions to point to the opposite end of town." — where?

 * "Rotating Stay, See and Do entries". — I don't even know what that is supposed to mean, maybe it your own head that is rotating.

 * "Editing things according to Wikipedia MoS. This is Wikivoyage. Different website" — Yes it is - so why do you keep on bringing WP up, have you had problems there as well? At WP someone probably would have called you a "troll" by now, it is not a term commonly used here at WT but it does seem to apply to you, funny thing is you accused me of it.

 * Changing romanisation away from local standards used on signage at seeming random. — Can you perhaps supply an example of this? Where are these signs, where has the copy been changed in conflict with them. If is is real then detail it, if it is a fantasy then please keep it to yourself in future.

 * I have endeavoured to assume good faith with (WT-en) Snave from the outset however that user is displaying somewhat megalomanic tendencies with the article and may benefit from understanding that any regular WT editor has seen it all before. It is becoming increasingly difficult to attribute anything other than time wasting mischief in explanation of his behaviour. (WT-en) Snave just try and settle down. If you want to edit here just do it with care and patience and please stop singing about it, it is a boring song you are singing and one that has been sung by many others before you. As for your slurs against WP and WP editing your naivety and patronising manner are quite silly and frankly I doubt your editing style would receive an enthusiastic reception there. Your patronising criticism and appeals to inter-wiki tribalism is also both childlike and ludicrous.

 * If anyone here thinks (WT-en) Snave is worth the high maintenance effort then go for it, perhaps (WT-en) Snave can then fulfil his negative fantasies and promote his condescending patronising nonsense with someone else for a while. I can only hope this supercilious bore learns how to read edit histories before he starts holding forth any more. It is a pity as many of the contributions made by (WT-en) Snave have some value and aside from the rambling accusations, slandering and haughty self righteous posturing there seems to be some potential. His reverts have caused a lot of quite time consuming attention to undo and if any of his subsequent edits got lost it arises entirely from his own misadventure and silly behaviour. As for the sycophantic nonsense such as "Unfortunately, I'll have to call in 3rd party arbitration", perhaps (WT-en) Snave would be better served by calling for a doctor. -- (WT-en) felix 11:45, 1 March 2011 (EST)

 * I'm impressed by the enthusiasm for an article on a city you have admitted no firsthand knowledge of and I wish you the best in your edits mate. Calling in arbitration is as per policy when an edit gets reverted twice. As you seem enthusiastic towards quoting policies in legalese, as is the norm on Wikipedia I think, from my limited understanding, I chose to do it by the book and ultimately, I think the full discussion above sums itself up rather well. Thank you for your contributions.(WT-en) Snave 08:01, 3 March 2011 (EST)

Locations desired
Many listings have no addresses, URLs, or lat/lons. If you happen to know and would like to add that information for any of the locations, especially the budget hotels (which are otherwise hard to locate), this would be a boon for fellow travelers. --Orcrist (talk) 11:53, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

 * This is desirable. I'm fairly sure a lot of listings in South Korea are actually closed since they were listed on WT Andrewssi2 (talk) 19:45, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Dead Link?
http://www.yuseong.daejeon.kr/html/en/ looks like dead link for Yuseong-gu. Check to fix it!

Daejeon
Requesting a second opinion, preferably someone with knowledge of South Korea. I added coordinates to the mountains listed at the top of the See section of Daejeon. They are however a good distance away, I suspect I got them wrong. Are they the correct locations or just similar named other locations? --Traveler100 (talk) 07:23, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I rolled my own edits back. Here is what I had guessed as the locations. --Traveler100 (talk) 07:26, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Daejeon


text:
Talk:Dagestan

Written by whom
it was written by russian, I bet. who else would be so scared of Dagestanis ? Haha. We don't touch foreigners, we would like to see them in Dagestan, but russia is not happy about that idea obviously. who is bodrov by the way, someone who makes money on cheap tricks? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 86.164.64.80 (talk • contribs) 01:47, 8 August 2010

 * So why don't you plunge forward and tell us about the beauty of your land? (you're from Dagestan, right?) Without whitewashing important safety facts of course, travellers should be warned about them. The safety parts, by the way, were written by (WT-en) an American, who is pretty knowledgeable about both Caucasus and Russia. – (WT-en) Vidimian 03:47, 8 August 2010 (EDT)

Safety
So how is the situation nowadays? Is Dagestan "one of the safest regions in Russia for travellers" or is it "unsafe due to political instability, criminal activity, bombings, Islamist terrorist attacks, and crime. Now we say both, which cannot really be true unless the rest of Russia is unsafe to a higher degree.

If Dagestan is reasonably safe compared to the rest of Caucasus and the rest of Russia, we do not need a warning box, but just advice under Stay safe.

UK still thinks Dagestan is among the most dangerous regions in that part of Russia and advices against all travel. Canada agrees. Australia says there is a "high threat of terrorism" in parts of North Caucasus, including Dagestan. USA says "don't travel" for all of North Caucasus because of risk of terrorist attacks and civil unrest. I know these can be biased, but "one of the safest regions in Russia for travellers" does not seem justified.

–LPfi (talk) 12:04, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

 * I'm not too sure, this info was from one of my Russian friends. I removed it after realising it was original research and his experiences there were better as he was a citizen of Russia. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 12:07, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

 * Original research is allowed and encouraged here. I think Russian may be at greater risk than foreigners, but speaking a common language and sharing some of the culture will of course make it easier to avoid some of the dangers. It is also possible that being able to get around without troubles will make one feel safe, while dangers feel more real if you are under cultural chock. As the risks we are talking about are nearly always lesser than the risk of traffic accidents, a place feeling secure may have little to do with the real safety, you depend on your friend being able to discern safety from feeling of safety. –LPfi (talk) 12:55, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I mean no disrespect to anyone's friend, but I am concerned about us taking the word of one random traveller over the opinions of half a dozen foreign ministries. I know that governments err on the side of caution, but when the UK Foreign Office shows most of Russia as "green - safe to travel", and Dagestan as "red - avoid all travel", the statement that Dag is "one of the safest regions in Russia for travellers" sets off alarm bells for me. Ground Zero (talk) 13:09, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Dagestan


text:
Talk:Dahab

discover dahab
so once again I removed these links, please stop adding them. Zen Sea is fine since it's a dive outfit, so I've listed it in the normal and appropriate manor (feel free to add more contact details, etc for it). Discover Dahab just forwards to Zen Sea when you click on diving, so it shouldn't be listed under the dive section. Adding the website to several places on the page is spamming, and not acceptable... Thanks! (WT-en) ::: Cacahuate 10:53, 30 January 2007 (EST)

Recent trip to Dahab
Fiona's travel review is interesting, but as it has no relevance to a discussion of the page itself, this is not an appropriate place for it, perhaps she may want to add the activities she mentioned to the main page? Anyway, the correct place for personal reviews is of course Extra. Long story short, this post has been removed (you can find it in the history if you need it).213.38.11.86 07:21, 23 May 2008 (EDT)

I was merely trying to recommend the hotel as you had other places of interest listed. The hotel offers diving, safe horse riding, yoga and arabic lessons.

I thought you would just take bits of what I said as and where helpful.

As for the multiple posts.... wiki was glitching :-(

—The preceding comment was added by 90.222.1.69 (talk • contribs)

Some Edits
I've done some spring cleaning, hopefully some of the passages scan better now. I removed the Bedouin Taxis as it had a hint of advertising about it, and the link was broken.

Some edits
I've done some spring cleaning, hopefully some of the passages scan better now. I removed the Bedouin Taxis as it had a hint of advertising about it, and the link was broken.

Status of this article
I have downgraded it from guide to usable. Key reasons: --(WT-en) Burmesedays 09:18, 4 January 2010 (EST)
 * Attractions need much more information, especially on how to reach them.
 * Sleep listings need work, although I have deleted the more spammy ones.
 * The dive section (key reason people go to Dahab) needs more explanation and organisation.

 * This guide is a mess. It's got too many listings, too little information in too many of them, and too much touting, and people had messed up its template, which I tried to restore. This article will need a lot of work if it's to be fixed. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 03:34, 12 June 2011 (EDT)

 * Fully agree and have made a start by pruning the obviously touty listings or those thin on info. It really needs somebody who knows Dahab well to thin out the mass of dive listings etc.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:52, 12 June 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Dahab


text:
Talk:Daintree Village

Is it really necessary to separate this from Daintree National Park? (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:36, 4 July 2007 (EDT)

Well a national park is something entirly different then a city or village, Daintree National park is spread over a large geographic location and split up in 3 parts. Daintree Village sits roughly in the middle of these 3 parts.

Well reading up on the guidelines you are probably right

title: Talk:Daintree Village


text:
Talk:Daito Islands

Indigenous Daitoic really exist?
I have never heard of "indigenous inhabitants" in Daito islands. As far as I know, all the three islands were uninhabited until the immigration from Hachijo island started. (Official website of the village council clearly states so. ) There were immigrants/workers from Okinawa mainland as well, so it's quite likely there have/had been a discrimination or a confrontation between those two groups, but does "indigenous Daitoic" really exist? What is the source of that information? (The word Daitoic yields only 1 Google hit, by the way.) 218.110.51.72 17:13, 22 July 2006 (EDT)
 * 218.110.51.72 was me. Since no sources are provided yet for the existence of the "indigenous inhabitants", I'm going to delete the paragraph in question. If there is a convincing source for that claim despite what village councils' say, please cite. (WT-en) Kzaral 03:21, 21 January 2007 (EST)

Merge Minamidaito and Kitadaito into this?
IMHO we don't really need three separate articles for two really, really remote islands with a total population of 2,000. Jpatokal (talk) 06:49, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

 * per nom. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 06:50, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

 * For convenience, you should link Kitadaito and Minamidaito, and the thing is, both are substantive articles. Why don't you make a draft of a merged article, so we can see how it is? But on the face of it, I think the argument isn't against those two articles, which look quite valid, but against the need for this one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:23, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Daito Islands


text:
Talk:Daklak

Location
Which province of Vietnam is this in? -- (WT-en) Tim (writeme!) 15:39, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

Daklak is a province in Vietnam. (WT-en) Turalo

title: Talk:Daklak


text:
Talk:Dakshina Kannada

Copied from Project:votes for deletion by (WT-en) Evan

 * Dakshina Kannada - Is an unlinked redirect to a yet to be created page and no obvious places to be linked from. -- (WT-en) Huttite 04:02, 12 Jun 2004 (EDT)
 * Don't delete. It's a district of Bangalore. I'll make it into a stub. --(WT-en) Evan 14:11, 13 Jun 2004 (EDT)

title: Talk:Dakshina Kannada


text:
Talk:Kolkata/Dakshineswar

=Kolkata= Shouldn't this be a district of Kolkata?--(WT-en) Wandering 14:49, 3 January 2008 (EST)

Do we really need a separate district for Dakshineswar?
Since Dakshineswar has only one visitor attraction (the Kali Temple), I don't think it should be a separate district of its own. I think it should be merged to Kolkata/Northern fringes instead. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 13:47, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

 * This is a very short article. By all means, merge and redirect. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:25, 30 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your input. I'll merge it to the northern fringes and update the map to same. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 07:14, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Kolkata/Dakshineswar


text:
Talk:Da Lat

Paste from redirected article
needs to be formatted according to Project:Manual of style (WT-en) Maj 12:41, 13 September 2006 (EDT) When in Dalat, and looking for the best motorcycle tour/taxi around...hunt out the "Easy Riders" (though they are more likely to find you). They speak good English, are from local villages and seemingly know everyone. Giving you great access to places your otherwise never know about. You will know the driver is legit when you are presented with a book, full of praise from other excited tourists. The "Easy Riders" generally charge about $20 (US) per person for an 8 tour. People have been known to hire the "Easy Riders" for motorcycle tours that stretch from Dalat to Hanoi! This will cost you around $60 (US) per day, often including accomodation.

More on Vietnam motorbike tours
After all the crap at Hoi An, I am very dubious...... So, are Easyriders.net and Easyriders.vn separate companies? If so, one should not be pasting over the other's details, but there should be two listings. --(WT-en) burmesedays 11:34, 2 September 2011 (EDT)

No mid-range sleep options?
We have 15 entries under Budget, several under Splurge. The Mid-range heading is not even there. Pashley (talk) 15:50, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Tour listings
I just deleted several tour listings per don't tout and tour. Since all tour listings need to be for "value-added" tours under the Wikivoyage definition of that term (which defines it as meaning that the tour does something that it would be impossible or very difficult for independent travelers to do on their own), I don't see why a tour listing with no description should ever be allowed to stay up. I also think it's quite unhelpful to travelers to have a whole bunch of listings for tour agencies using different versions of the "Easy Rider" name. Unless these tour agencies can be distinguished from each other in some helpful way, whether by the content of the tour or the price, it is very confusing.

If we do decide to list every "Easy Rider" agency, perhaps they should all be put in their own subsection. However, I believe that the fact that Wikivoyage is specifically not supposed to be a "Yellow Pages" means that we should simply link to either the original or best "Easy Rider" agency and then mention that there are a slew of competitors, that they are easy to find, and that visitors should feel free to choose them as they wish, based on price and reputation. The listing for the apparently original "Easy Riders" does this well, but if we make these into a subsection, we can put this kind of text (suitably edited for context) in the introduction to it:

''There are a bunch of companies which jumped on the idea and all call themselves Easy Riders, so it's quite confusing. The concept is everywhere the same, but the price and quality may differ.''

Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:46, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I have just repeated this procedure, which makes total sense to me. Ibaman (talk) 15:02, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I wonder whether any of them should be listed. "Offers canyoning, white water rafting, hiking & camping, cycling and biking tours" seems like quite a lot of value added. It's a confusing problem. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:52, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Da Lat


text:
Talk:Dalhousie, India

Please feel free to edit and correct the page.

title: Talk:Dalhousie, India


text:
Talk:Dali, Yunnan province

vfd discussion

 * Delete. This is a straight copy from World66.com They don't attribute their sources, so is the cc licence valid?? -- (WT-en) DanielC 08:38, 3 March 2006 (EST)
 * In addition, this town is already covered in its own article - Dali.
 * Redirect to Dali --(WT-en) Ravikiran 10:35, 3 March 2006 (EST)
 * Redirect to Dali -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 10:32, 6 March 2006 (EST)
 * Redirect. -- (WT-en) Ryan 18:28, 7 March 2006 (EST)
 * Redirect. -- (WT-en) Jonboy 12:29, 9 March 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Dali, Yunnan province


text:
Talk:Dalian

Feedback
As requested in the Pub, here are a few quick thoughts on this article. First, awesome job! It is very close to star status and could probably be listed for nomination. (WT-en) Andrew already moved the maps to a more logical location, and I've added a more specific isIn, links to Wikipedia and Dmoz, and listed the article at guide status. In looking quickly through the article I saw at least one non-primary link under the "Sleep" section, so that should be removed in accordance with Project:External links.

If it would be useful from an organizational standpoint it might make sense to divide the article into districts - Wikivoyage uses districts that are useful to travelers, so if the government districts don't make sense then perhaps some other delineation would be good. I don't know the city well enough to understand if that's appropriate, and the current length of the article isn't so great that a breakup is needed right now.

This is a great article, nice work! -- (WT-en) Ryan 15:03, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

 * This is amazing! This seems ready to be a Star if you ask me.  I don't think it makes sense to district this though, as you say the article is still manageable in length and Dalian is just not that big a tourist destination. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:54, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

Thanks for the feedback both of you. I'm currently thinking that it might be better to split the article into the government districts, they actually divide quite nicely and I've finally tracked down a map which shows their borders (one of the reasons I was hesitant earlier was because I only had a vague idea of how the districts broke down). I'll try it out, it's quite possible that there's not really enough info on the individual districts to warrant the division, in which case it'll be on to plan B. Currently that's "come up with a plan B".

Regarding the non-primary link, I was careful only to link to the specific hotel sites. I assume you're referring to the Hotel Nikko link which is primary (the hotel is part of the JAL Hotels chain), but not the main site of the hotel. I put it in as the main site seemed to be broken. I figured it best to put in an alternative until the main site was fixed. --(WT-en) Paul. 18:35, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

Not a star
So, this isn't a star article, since it doesn't match our Project:manual of style in several ways.

 * 1) It is a huge city broken up into districts, but not every district is it's own article. Is this "the exception that proves the rule"? I dunno.
 * 2) "See" listings aren't in Project:attraction listings format.
 * 3) "Do" listings aren't in attraction listings format.
 * 4) Both "See" and "Do" should be broken down into listings of places rather than generalisms. For example, the "Warner-Wanda Complex" should be its own listing, not buried under "Entertainment".
 * 5) There are no restaurant listings under "Eat".
 * 6) The stores listed in "Buy" should be broken out into listings.
 * 7) The "Drink" section doesn't name any particular bars or nightclubs.
 * 8) There are no hotels named in "sleep".
 * 9) The "Get out" listings need to be in their own articles.

I realize this is a huge city, so many of the listings are in the district articles. But most of them don't have necessary contact info (addresses, phone numbers, directions) either.

I've rolled this back. --(WT-en) Evan 11:27, 20 December 2006 (EST)

 * I'm not following you here. 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8 don't apply, because this is a huge city top level article and it's supposed to give pointers into the districts, exactly like this article is doing.  Look at the huge city template: "Don't give full details about each X", "Avoid specific restaurant info", "Avoid specific bar listings", "Avoid listing specific hotels", etc.  If you don't like this, I suggest you go propose that on the Talk page of the template.  I've rolled back your rollback. (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:01, 20 December 2006 (EST)

 * I agree that huge cities should have light listings that point to fuller listings in the district articles. The district articles, here, don't have that information. I believe with Singapore we required that district articles be stars before the huge city became a star. Is that wrong? I'm not sure you could use this article and its sub-articles to find a restaurant, book a hotel, or go to see an attraction. I just think we're stretching the definition of "star" if that's the case. --(WT-en) Evan 12:12, 20 December 2006 (EST)

 * OK, I see your point. The major difference here is that the Singapore 'front page' tries to link places directly Clarke Quay style, while the Dalian page just lists street names with no links and occasionally throws in a (Foobar District) with a link.  But, strictly speaking, this isn't mandated by the MoS and maybe it's the template that should be clarified... (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:56, 20 December 2006 (EST)

 * Project:City_guide_status says that all distric articles should be guide status... (WT-en) Cacahuate 12:23, 20 December 2006 (EST)

 * And - for the record - they're not. The three district articles that exist (one manages to avoid scrutiny by not existing) all said "" at the bottom, but two of them have only a single entry (a "Splurge" one) under Eat, and one doesn't even have a single Sleep listing. I've retagged those two as  and , because that's objectively what they are. Even for the city as whole if it were de-districted, it's still rather short on listings for places to eat or sleep.  Quick quiz: I'm a "budget" traveler who just got off the train and is willing to go anywhere in the city for a meal.  Name a restaurant in my price range.  This article is cerainly Usable, and maybe it should be classified as a Guide, but it is not a Star article. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 16:56, 12 February 2007 (EST)

Dalian Youth Hostels
Moved out of main article' – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 20:07, 19 May 2007 (EDT)

Was in Dalian for a day last week and booked a room in advance at the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel on Zhongshan Qu (Warship #104).

But upon arriving at the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel I was met by a hostile (not to be confused with hostel) receptionist who refused to allow me through the front doors, claiming that FOREIGNERS ARE NOT ALLOWED at the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel!

I was with my Chinese traveling companion, and we met with the manager of the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel, reminding them that "international" usually means everyone, not just Chinese, and that the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel's racist, exclusionary policy of refusing westerners contradicted the basic tenants of YHA and HI.

They retorted that because the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel was located on a naval facility that the government had established the NO FOREIGNERS ALLOWED at the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel rule, but then how did the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel ever get authorized to use the HI logo on the front of the boat? My intuition says that they were just holding out for Chinese tour groups because that's where the real money is, but I will email HI and YHA just in case.

I should also add that the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel is located about an hour's bus ride from the train station and quite a drag to find, especially if you are carrying a big pack. I was quite p.o.'d at having to return all the way back to Shengli Square to find a luguan (cheapest one from a tout for 35rmb), since there are no other affordable accomodations in the area.

It's a real pity that the Dalian Sea Rhyme Youth Hostel does not allow foreigners, or that any hotel in China has the right to refuse western guests because of the color of our skin, but I hope leaving this post will start some change.

 * I added a cautionary note about the place on the district page, under Sleep. Then I noticed that the other hostel listed (Haiyun International Youth Hostel) matches the (rather distinctive) description and address of DSRYH; the phone number matches too.  So this has to be the same place.  Another suspicious fact is that the HIYH listing says it's a member of Hosteling Intl, but HI doesn't list any hostels in Dalian.  So... remove the listing?  Take out the apparently false claim of HI membership?  Add the cautionary note about alleged discrimination to the HIYH listing? - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 20:46, 19 May 2007 (EDT)

 * Given the fact that we now have two editors reporting the same problem, I think we have an obligation to include a warning about it, both in the main article for the city and the listing in the district article for the hostel that was identified specifically. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 10:04, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

 * I think the way it's stated now in the district article is sufficient... doesn't really warrant mention in the main article, i don't think. I thought those editors were one in the same, trying to add weight to their case... but maybe I'm being cynical – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 15:09, 26 May 2007 (EDT)

 * I saw billboard ads for the ship that had the HI symbol Thursday. Unfortunately I lost my camera and all the pictures I took. There was one sign on the ship in a stairwell that had the symbol. The ship is also a museum and the museum pass I bought allowed me to walk through the area with the rooms and see inside the rooms, but there was no one there who spoke English. (WT-en) Gbleem 01:43, 30 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Trying to delete portions in Eat that are about hostels, as well as migrate the hostel info. to the appropriate district page, but each time I click on ANY edit button (including the master one at the top of the article), I don't see that text listed. Anyone can advise?(WT-en) Zepppep 15:20, 30 November 2009 (EST)

 * Seems to have been a Wiki(WT-en) Zepppep 15:22, 30 November 2009 (EST)travel cache issue.

Foreign Language University
I called the number and the woman told me how to get there. I got lost but I had a local call the number and then write the name in Chinese which helped a great deal. I showed it to people who directed me to the dorm. When I got there I was told no but fortunately the girl who showed me to the dorm was able to get the woman I talked to and they let me stay. I don't know if that's policy or if they were just being nice. I thought she said 30 RMB per night. I suppose I'll find out when I leave. They did take a 100 RMB deposit. The rooms are OK and the bedding seems clean. There is a shared bathroom on my hallway, a washing machine, and showers are in the basement. (WT-en) Gbleem 08:11, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

Alternative banner for this article?

In the Hebrew Wikivoyage we are currently using this banner instead of the one which is currently used here. Do you think too that this banner would would better than the existing one? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 06:35, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

 * No, I like the current banner a lot better. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:08, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Undistrict, or put meat on district articles?
This is an incompletely districted article. Dalian/Ganjingzi is pitiful and just about useless and Dalian/Shahekou is of modest length. That leaves Dalian/Xigang and especially Dalian/Zhongshan. So the problem is really twofold: (1) Can the existing district articles that are short to almost nonexistent be fleshed out satisfactorily? (2) Can the pretty well-developed content in the other two be folded nicely back into the main article? There is also a third issue, which is that the remaining districts mentioned in Dalian have no articles at all.

Anyone have an idea of how to get us out of this mess?

Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:03, 5 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I think we should remerge for now and then try to redraw district lines based on geo coordinates at some future date. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:26, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Perhaps that's the lesser of two evils right now. Should the listings be subdivided by district when merged into the main article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:45, 29 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I think this is a terminology issue. Dalian City (in terms of Chinese administration boundaries and this article) would be known as a region in any European or North American article and some of the districts would be city articles or regions themselves. If these articles were cities and not districts then you just have under-developed city articles. Rephrasing Dalian as a region though would be a little work. --Traveler100 (talk) 08:29, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * OK, but we have some undistricted city articles in China that encompass entire counties or regions - most obviously, Chongqing, but also arguably Tianjin (both municipalities that are directly controlled by the central government, along with Beijing and Shanghai, and not part of any province). I don't think that turning this article into a region and maintaining the undeveloped district articles as city articles is a good solution, and in fact, I don't think it solves anything. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:00, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * We've so far reached an impasse and nothing has happened. I posted a pointer from Requests for comment. I'd like some followup. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:30, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd say let's move the content back from the districts to the main article. We can subdivide sections with listings into districts if it's useful for our readers to know where these places are at a glance. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:57, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree that that's the best alternative at this point. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:04, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Any movement in either direction on this? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:50, 22 September 2018 (UTC)

Personally, I'm actually in favour of keeping the district articles because I'm fairly certain that there's quite a bit that I at least (if no-one else) can do to improve them. It will take some time of course, but already I've added 20 new listings to the Jinzhou District article and 5 to the Ganjingzi District article (never mind that many of the new listings are stubs; I'll add more meat to them later). STW932 (talk) 16:20, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Excellent. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:31, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

In the city or "Go next"?
By the time I see this page, Changxing Island is in the part of "See" with Golden Pebble Beach and Lvshun in the "Go next"section. Actually Changxing Island is much farther and inconvient to get than the other two places. Going to either of the two places by public transport shouldn't take more than 1.5h (As a native, I take these two routes really often). However driving to Changxing Island takes around 2h (My rides from the city to the island, from 1.8h to 3h). So I do think the two places should be considered as parts of the city. Visitors to Golden Pebble Beach and Lvshun can manage to come back to the city in a day but those who paid a visit to Changxing Island can't. The same as Xiangshui Temple which is inside the Jinzhou New District which is at most 40 minutes from the city center. Also asked some locals about this and most of them (16 of 18) agreed this. May include some mistakes above and I apologize for them.--Xwn0122 (talk) 15:41, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

 * This issue has been resolved. --STW932 (talk) 05:11, 7 November 2018 (UTC)

Glitch on mobile version
I recently created an article on Zhuanghe, which is linked from the Districts section of this page. But for some reason, on the mobile version of this page, the link is still red. Can someone fix this? There is no such problem with the desktop version. --STW932 (talk) 05:28, 7 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I see that the problem is now fixed. It's not clear who did it or how, but thanks a lot. --STW932 (talk) 04:16, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Do we need a bus website?
http://www.dalianbus.com redirected from "By Bus" is not an official website for Dalian Passenger Transport Co.,Ltd, the bus company for Dalian urban area. It can provide information for bus services, but not the accurate ones. http://www.dlbus.com.cn is the official site. However, none of them is now providing English Services. It is even easier to use a map app and a translation app together than using them! (the map apps like Baidu provides point-to-point route advice and frequent updates while the websites don't) p.s. some unofficial Wechat accounts provide Chinese and English service maps, but it may not be as easy to use for a foreigner as the method mentioned. --Xwn0122 (talk) 06:16, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

 * I would suggest linking the official Chinese-language site and then stating how visitors who don't read Chinese could best get accurate information. The traveller comes first trumps other policies in this kind of situation. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:38, 22 December 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dalian


text:
Talk:Dalian/Zhongshan

Youth Hostel
Moved to Talk:Dalian

Sleep, Budget Why is Haiyun listed in the English version of Wikivoyage if they don't accept foreigners?(WT-en) Zepppep 17:50, 2 November 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Dalian/Zhongshan


text:
Talk:Dallam County

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Does Dallam County need an article?
This article was initially redirected to High Plains with the justification that policy was at Wikivoyage_talk:Geographical_hierarchy. While that is a discussion about the situation, the Policy does not appear to be settled or articulated on Project:Geographical_hierarchy. I have also copied the following discussion from Project:Votes for deletion, because I do not believe there was any intention to delete the article, only a need to justify its redirection. - (WT-en) Huttite 19:57, 12 December 2009 (EST)

Dallam County
''Texas has well over 300 counties, many of them with only a couple of tiny towns, and so counties are not an organizational structure that we use for the state. This county article, in particular, is unlikely to ever contain anything more than Dalhart, and there really isn't anything else to mention there.''
 * Redirect to High Plains. (WT-en) Texugo 08:28, 12 December 2009 (EST)
 * Keep as the destination can be a regional article for Dalhart. If it is only going to contain Dalhart, the redirect it there, not to High Plains. Also, the discussion on whether we should have US counties as articles, is only a discussion, it does not appear to have been turned into policy. - (WT-en) Huttite 18:41, 12 December 2009 (EST)

In my opinion, individual county articles should redirect to the county seat article unless there is content about the county attractions that does not comfortably fit within just one article about a single destinations in the county. Thus a separate county article could be justified if several county destination articles each contain references to a common set of county attractions.

In the case of Dallam County, there is not enough content (yet) to justify a separate article, so redirect to the county seat of Dalhart. - (WT-en) Huttite 19:57, 12 December 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Dallam County


text:
Talk:Dallas

Regions
Could this be broken into regions (west Dallas / east Dallas / etc.). Seems to be a pretty large city to just have on one page.
 * I have given a shot at districtifying this city. Many listings still need to be pinned down and moved, but I'd love to hear some feedback on the organizational scheme I've started. Some parts of Dallas don't fit neatly into this scheme, I think. The parts around and north of Love Field, for example, would not normally be referred to as Uptown, nor I think would the band of the city along the northern stretch of the loop. South Dallas, on the other hand, encompasses half the map, but probably wouldn't have the listings to merit breaking it down any further. Also, the Fairgrounds actually fall somewhere between Deep Ellum, South Dallas, and East Dallas but I've included them in South Dallas just to boost the number of listings there. Also it may perhaps be a good idea to separate Upper Greenville from East Dallas, but I'm not sure. Comments? (WT-en) Texugo 02:10, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * After a bit more thought, I'm going to add a couple more districts.(WT-en) Texugo 03:31, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Much happier with the new schematic. I think everything has its place now, plus the article is a little more integrated with its important suburb articles now too. Comments? (WT-en) Texugo 06:40, 20 February 2008 (EST)
 * Uptown only extends from Woodall Rogers on the south; to Haskell on the north; and from Central Expressway on the east to the Katy Trail on the west. West of the Katy Trail is the Oak Lawn neighborhood. Uptown was considered part of Oak Lawn until the mid-1990s.

 * "Uptown" proper refers to a Public Improvement District (PID) established by the City. Most locals refer to Uptown as generally including everything North from downtown (between 75 and Turtle Creek) up to Blackburn.  Some refer to Knox Park (the western half of the Knox/Henderson neighborhood as Uptown. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Dallasman (talk • contribs)

Conspiracy Museum
Does anyone know for sure that this museum is closing? If it is/has, delete it.
 * Deleted. (WT-en) Texugo 02:10, 20 February 2008 (EST)

Stephan Pyles restaurant
Might be worth mentioning, since Stephan Pyles is a 'celebrity chef.' His restaurant in Dallas is one of kind and very nice.

Dean Fearing's would also be a good resturant too add. Both Pyles and Fearing are significant figures in Southwestern cusine.

NorthPark Mall is not in Uptown.

Arlington?
It seems odd to list Arlington atractions and not Ft Worth attractions. Adminttidly Six Flags, Cowboy's Stadium, and Texas Rangers may be closly tied to Dallas, but are actully much closer to Ft Worth than Dallas. Other Ft Worth attactions are probably as or more interesting than these, yet are listed under Ft Worth.

Dallas Arts District/AT&T Performing Arts Center
Probably should be added.

Proposed division of districts
The list of districts seems very long and confusing to someone from out of town. Instead of making new district pages, we should just group the district list into something easier to understand. Here is my proposal:

Center Northeast Northwest South and West Altaihunters (talk) 06:13, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Downtown
 * Uptown
 * Deep Ellum
 * East Dallas
 * North Dallas and Preston Hallow
 * Lake Highlands
 * Highland Park and University Park
 * Northwest Dallas
 * Oak Lawn
 * Oak Cliff
 * South Dallas
 * West Dallas
 * Yes, I think that would be helpful. It would be great if someone could make a map too. Texugo (talk) 12:35, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

 * Actually, do we need districts at all? Dallas does not seem to have enough "core" POIs (See, Do) to me to justify districtification... PrinceGloria (talk) 04:03, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

 * OK, since nobody opposed I am down to Downtown, North and South. I will see if the number of POIs justifies maintaining all three. PrinceGloria (talk) 12:32, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

 * I'd say Dallas is big enough to have a couple of districts but nowhere near the 20 or so the article used to have (I'm not familiar with the city having only been at the airport running from one plane to another). Tex and Altaihunters who seem to know Dallas may have some comments, provided they get this ping. ϒpsilon (talk) 12:41, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dallas


text:
Talk:Dallas Fort Worth

Reason for creation
Creating as major "wanted" link. Is airport name, so redirecting to DFW page

title: Talk:Dallas Fort Worth


text:
Talk:Dalmatia

Subregions
After moving towns from OD to cities, the number of cities are 16. I suggest we split the region in the three subregions already listed: Northern Dalmatia, Central Dalmatia, Southern Dalmatia. At the same time that means that the present subregion of Makarska Riviera (incorrectly listed as other destination) will be deleted/redirected increasing the total number of cities further. One other way to do it would be to create regions for some of the larger island, but I do not think that we need that for now. Any thoughts?, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 04:18, 5 August 2010 (EDT)
 * I vote for 4 subregions: Northern Dalmatia, Central Dalmatia, Makarska Riviera and Southern Dalmatia. I think that Riviera should has own subregion of course. --Voll (talk) 20:21, 22 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Voll, it's nice to meet you here. I'll vote for 4 subregions too, but I suggest we follow the Croatian Tourist Board and use the 4 counties: Zadar County, Šibenik-Knin, Split-Dalmatia (or Central Dalmatia), and Dubrovnik-Neretva (or Southern Dalmatia). Northern Dalmatia would be removed in favour of the first two. Makarska Riviera, which is just a stub, would be replaced by Split-Dalmatia. If that article ever got too big, then Makarska Riviera could be split off again (excuse the pun). At this stage it doesn't seem to make much sense to have one article for Makarska Riviera and another for "rest of Central Dalmatia". Besides, there are many other rivieras in Dalmatia.
 * Everything seems easier if we have alignment between:
 * Local government counties
 * Tourism Board
 * Wikipedia (for links to and from WV)
 * WV
 * I'm not entirely sure what names we would use. I suggest the county names as I gave above, unless there are good reasons to use names like Central Dalmatia and Southern Dalmatia. Nurg (talk) 07:50, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I've got your idea and it is OK for me. I prefer articles with the counties names. Main issue - we will have 11 cities in Split-Dalmatia. I am working in Russian and Ukrainian WV mainly and I read in the Pub that administrators in English Wikivoyage don't like to delete empty articles. Could we move text from Ruskamen, Brela, Promajna and Drvenik articles to "Go next" sections in Omis, Makarska and Baska-Voda articles and delete these empty articles? After that we can have 7 cities in the region. --Voll (talk) 17:22, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I have created Split-Dalmatia and Dubrovnik-Neretva. When I added all the Northern Dalmatia cities to that article, I found it was not necessary to split it until it grows bigger. So I ended up coming back to Claus's suggestion of 3 regions, but used the county names for the new articles. I think the number of cities in Split-Dalmatia is ok, because I have put them in two groups (one for Makarska Riviera). Nurg (talk) 07:32, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

Dalmatia Trekking
Does that listing past muster with Project:Activity listings? I have my doubts, but it's not obvious enough for me to want to just delete it now without getting others' opinions. Thanks, everyone. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 12:45, 5 May 2011 (EDT)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:55, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Split Collage.jpg

title: Talk:Dalmatia


text:
Talk:Dalton Highway

I think this has potential as an itinerary, but it should probably be moved to Dalton Highway. (WT-en) Maj 17:19, 24 September 2006 (EDT)

CB Radio
There is no mention of traveling with a CB tuned to channel 19. This is monitored by everyone who travels the Haul Road, to include Pipeline Security, who could possibly save a stranded travelers butt.
 * Go ahead and plunge forward and add such a mention yourself! --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 19:33, 8 June 2007 (EDT)

Suggestions
I don't want to cause an edit conflict so rather than editing the article myself - usually as long as you can sleep in it a town is considered article-worthy, so I've created an article for Coldfoot, and an article was already in existence for Deadhorse. Most of the information listed in this article for those towns can thus be whittled down to just a one or two line synopsis. See Route 66 for a similar article (albeit one with more stops along the way). -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 00:27, 27 November 2008 (EST)

 * Actually, thinking about it further, Route 66 may not be the best model to follow when writing about the Dalton... It looks like the current article is basically using a region article template now, which actually makes a lot of sense - the Dalton is in effect its own travel region since it's a 400 mile long stretch that many travelers will pass through over a span of days.  The comments about reducing the amount of information for the towns still holds true, however - it would be best to build separate, detailed town articles and keep that info to a minimum in this article. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 00:38, 27 November 2008 (EST)
 * I was just thinking along those lines. I was looking to see if the article met the criteria for itinerary, and it said an itinerary goes stop to stop. I could certainly rework the article to fit that, but since you brought up regions, I think this would work well as a region. Do you think its up to guide quality, then? About my only thought is that addresses aren't listed and the name of the restaurants at the Yukon crossing and Deadhorse don't have a name. I don't think that matters, though, when it's something highly visible on a barren road...it's not like you wouldn't recognize the restaurant or the hotel at Coldfoot if I don't list the address. I think I'll get rid of the "itinerary" blurb at the top and make this a region on the Alaska page. (WT-en) AHeneen 01:26, 27 November 2008 (EST)
 * On second thought, I'll leave it an itinerary, as it does not fit into any region of Alaska (it's equal part central alaska and equal part arctic alaska). I've spent too much time on this article to care right now...time to move on to better things. (WT-en) AHeneen 01:26, 27 November 2008 (EST)

 * As you've said, an itinerary is usually about point A to point B to point C. In this case, the article is about the region that the Dalton Highway passes through, which seems like a better approach.  I definitely wouldn't propose that we create a separate region of Alaska for it, but I think it can re-use most of the section headings from the region article template, as you've done. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 02:03, 27 November 2008 (EST)

 * I have addressed this issue and it is now an itinerary. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) AHeneen (talk • contribs)

 * I think I like this as an itinerary also... agree with Ryan that hotels, etc should be in own city article with just a sentence or two in this article – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 03:25, 28 November 2008 (EST)

 * Looks like we're on the same track with pics at the moment, I'll leave it to you, you're doing a fine job... we prob only need one of the "240 mi to next service" pics, yours is a nice pic I think – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 04:03, 28 November 2008 (EST)

Off the Beaten Path Nomination
I said there were a few possible MoS violations and here they are:
 * I've put quite a few external links in the article, but they're primarily hotel links (in a land where lodging is scarce, booking in advance is certainly a good thing), information links (road conditions & weather are very important on this road), and outfitters (because the "shop" template has a place for url). Most links are spelled out for users who print the article to view (as in www.wikivoyage.com rather than ).
 * There are also no addresses for shops on the highway because: 1) addresses are based on milage (ie. So and So, Mile 175, Coldfoot, AK...) and 2) the towns are extremely small (as in less than 25 permanent residents) so having no address has almost no effect for users of the guide.
 * Finally, User:(WT-en) Wrh2 has turned 2 of the towns (again, with populations less than 25) on the highway into separate articles(see above) by copying and pasting info from the Dalton Highway article into articles for the towns. The Dalton Highway guide links to these articles, but I would rather remove the links than have the DH article loose a nomination (although I might add more to those articles soon to make them usable).
 * --(WT-en) AHeneen 03:12, 28 November 2008 (EST)......Edited: (WT-en) AHeneen 19:29, 29 November 2008 (EST) and (WT-en) AHeneen 16:38, 30 November 2008 (EST)

 * Please don't "spell out" links. That violates our Project:External links policy, and is unnecessary, since the printable version (accessed by clicking the link in the left sidebar) already expands links for printing. Anyway, awesome work you are doing on this article! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 02:47, 30 November 2008 (EST)

Star?
What would it take to make this itinerary a star? I think that the town articles (Coldfoot, Wiseman, & Deahorse) need a little more material, but aside from that what is wrong/missing from this? (WT-en) AHeneen 02:25, 10 December 2008 (EST)

 * A list, others may care to add to
 * * Source (svg) for the map
 * * Use of italics, bold and exclaimation marks is both inconsistent, and maybe a little excessive.
 * * The ratio of warnings, advisories to attractions description is rather high, perhaps some consolidation of the dangers and preparation..

--(WT-en) Inas 03:54, 10 December 2008 (EST)

 * In addition to the items pointed out by Inas I'd like to see even more sites listed for the various mileages of the road - oil pumping stations, rivers, pipeline crossings, etc. I drove the road in 2001, and it is very easy to miss the notable sights along the way or to see something with no idea of what it is unless you've got a guide that provides that information.  The article as it stands it a great one, but a "star" is one that competes with any other guide to the destination, and I don't think this one is there yet. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 10:58, 10 December 2008 (EST)

 * I'd also like to see detailed information on specific recommended hikes. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:31, 10 December 2008 (EST)

Banner image
I created 4 banner images & think they all look great. AHeneen (talk) 06:10, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

 * Nice! Many Travel topics still need custom banners. ϒpsilon (talk) 06:17, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dalton Highway


text:
Talk:Daman (Nepal)

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Comments
I visited Daman in the summer of 1968, and camped out just below the observation tower for several days as we hiked north into the valley beneath the tower and on to the next range of hills. It was the first time I saw the Himalayas and it took us several days talking among ourselves and to the locals in Nepali what the names of the various peaks were. Sunrise on all the days we camped out was breathtaking, but I was so taken with the visual splendor of what we saw that I cannot remember if I heard any birds singing at sunrise. I have always wondered if birds sing at sunrise there and what what birds they may be. Is there anyone who could tell me if the birds sing the Himalayas awake? David M. Buerge, Peace Corps Volunteer, Nepal 17. 70.56.88.155 16:48, 4 October 2011 (EDT)David M. Buerge

title: Talk:Daman (Nepal)


text:
Talk:Dadra and Nagar Haveli and Daman and Diu

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Comments
several Indian soldiers ( at least) died in the "police action"..I'll change it a " military action"... (WT-en) Textbot 20:19, 2 September 2007 (EDT)

Breadcrumb Daman and Diu separately to Gujarat?
The suggestion was made at Talk:Pondicherry (union territory). I think it's a good one. Key points:

Daman and Diu are geographically separated enclaves on the coast of Gujarat.

...according to Google Maps, they are about 12 hours' and 640 kilometers' drive apart!

See here.

So what do you think? Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:08, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi - it is a bit confusing: Daman and Diu is an administrative group - both Diu and Daman are districts and both are cities... Daman (city) is the capital. We currently have each district and city together as one it seems. I did some work on the articles so at least we have something to work with. -- If this article (Daman and Diu) could be beefed up; maybe, having the other 2 articles would be ok without breaking the hierarchy down further? (mention in the other two that they are districts and cities both....) -- Matroc (talk) 08:44, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

 * The thing is, Daman and Diu are so far from each other that Daman and Diu makes little sense as a travel destination, and an article about an administrative division that's impractical to visit both portions of in close succession doesn't seem of much use to the traveller. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:49, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Daman and Diu as separate breadcrumbs under the region of Gajarat, ok I will go along with that - we should also make a disambiguation page pointing "Daman and Diu" to the Gajarat region page as people know of and may be more familiar with the political entity. The separate articles themselves should note the fact that they are part of the Indian Union Territory of Daman and Diu -- Matroc (talk) 23:47, 17 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Fully agreed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:15, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

 * We agreed on this in 2015. Does anyone disagree? If there's no disagreement, now that it's a year and a half later, shouldn't we do this? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:26, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

 * I agree on making Daman and Diu an extra-hierarchical region and breadcrumbing the districts to Gujarat. Gizza ( roam ) 11:49, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

Hotel "listings"
These non-listings (all but one just names) were in the article. Instead, they should be listed in either Daman or Diu, with more specifics:

 * Hotel DELTIN ( 5 star)
 * Hotel Gurukrupa
 * Hotel Sai krupa
 * Hotel Blue lagoon
 * Hotel Emerald

Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:24, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Pagebanner
Right now, this uses the same pagebanner as Diu. If anyone has a different pagebanner for either this page or Diu, please replace one of the banners. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:26, 18 January 2021 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Damanhur

This looks like a straight copy from Wikipedia, so I'm going to re-start and do a stub article. --(WT-en) Evan 10:09, 22 Sep 2005 (EDT)

 * The last version was, but the initial version wasn't. Also, the Wikipedia article was mostly taken from the Encyclopedia Britannica 1911, which is PD. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:09, 22 Sep 2005 (EDT)

title: Talk:Damanhur


text:
Talk:Damaraland

Twelfelfontein, Organ Pipes & Burnt Mountain
This article appears to be about three different places - can it either be moved to a region article, or split up (see Project:What is an article and Project:Article naming conventions). A search on the web turns up http://www.namibia-travel.net/centralnamibia/khorixas.htm, which indicates that the destinations might be better served by moving this article to a Damaraland region article and then using the Project:Region article template. Would that be OK? -- (WT-en) Ryan 23:37, 16 March 2006 (EST)

 * I think that would be a great idea. Could you convert it over as I am not very adept at this thing.  Calling it Damaraland would be a good idea and we could add other notable places in the region. -- Marty 18 March 2006

Delete redirect
Damaraland currently redirects to the Four-O region. This makes no sense, because there is pretty much zero overlap between the two regions. Really, Damaraland overlaps Kunene and Erongo. Although "Damaraland" is a pretty popular destination in its own right and probably deserves its own article, I don't see one being created here any time soon. And I can't think of a better article to redirect it to (outside of just Namibia). Does it make sense just to delete this page? Brycehughes (talk) 09:46, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

 * Would you mind making this request on WV:VFD instead? TIA, -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 10:00, 2 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah, that's where it goes! Thanks. Brycehughes (talk) 10:05, 2 November 2023 (UTC)

Vfd discussion
The article was nominated for deletion. The nomination was withdrawn by the nominator. Discussion is archived at Votes_for_deletion/November_2023. Brycehughes (talk) 03:13, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Damaraland


text:
Talk:Damascus

Probably not a hilarious mistake
I rolled back a change from "foul" to "fowl" (labeled a "hilarious mistake"), since I think it was wrong. There is a Middle Eastern dish called foul; it's a stew made from big red beans, and it is delicious. If I've done so in error, and it's more common to eat fowl than foul in Damascus, please correct. I'm going to replace with an italicized version since I think foul should match our rules for foreign words. --(WT-en) Evan 13:44, 30 January 2007 (EST)

Arabic Language Services
I've edited out some material from foreign language schools - wikivoyage isn't a medium for service providers to advertise their wares - rather for objective material relating to those services. If anyone has any info having used these services, feel free to contribute. (WT-en) Holgs 06:41, 27 February 2008 (EST)
 * I think it is useful to have the list of various opportunities to learn Arabic, which is quite a popular thing for foreigners in Damascus. Agree with the above on the no-touting policy, so in my view the current version is better than previous.  The Mezze Institute for Foreigners doesn't have any contact info or website - can someone provide? --(WT-en) Andrewsyria 07:49, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Hotel or Restaurant Addresses
Before I delete some of these restaurants and/or hotels, does anyone have the specific addresses or contact information for these places?

Hotel images..
The current article has three hotel images, and we discourage hotel images unless they are attractions in their own right. See Project:Accommodation listings. Can anyone verify if the images of the hotels here are notable in their own right in the city? --(WT-en) inas 02:40, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Damascus


text:
Talk:Dammam

Do
I've culled this section from the article because, as someone resident near here, I find it of suspect accuracy. I have a lot of trouble believing that there are pub and nightclubs in KSA - particularly the former given it is a dry country. I've tried to find Google hits for any of the listed clubs (using the .com.sa version) and drawn a blank. Google is also having trouble confirming the named district even exists within Dammam, and Wikipedia is also lacking of this District on its Dammam page (I have tried both using Fardaws and the possibles Fordaws and Firdaws).

I'm also reluctant to trust the summer sports section. There is much talk of tourism from other countries, but this is very unlikely to happen given the difficulty of obtaining Visas. Most summer sports tourists will be from within KSA, perhaps of these nationalities. Also, while the average summer temperature may be 35degC, it is more realistically in the mid-40s, and feels much hotter given the humidity - I saw a heat index in the area over 60degC last summer, and regular shade temperatures in excess of 40degC!

Anyway, I've kept the text below just in case someone wishes to confirm any of it as accurate. The above is just based on my knowledge of the general area and KSA in general. (WT-en) Nrms 07:52, 8 March 2010 (EST)

 * Dammam is well known for its "wild" nightlife. Numerous pubs and nightclubs are located in the center of the city, whereas many more are located on the suburbs of the city. "Al-Fardaws" (heaven in arabic) is a district reputated for its high society clubs such as club 55, Godot, ClearSky and many more. DJs from all over the world come and celebrate in Dammam (Ferry Corsten, Tiesto, Armen Van Buren... and many more). Fan of summer sports? Dammam is your Eldorado. From sand-skying to scubadiving and parasailing, Dammam has it all. Its golden sands remind tourists from all over the world, of the very beautiful Varna. Beaches in Dammam represent a tourist attraction, drawing many visitors from Germany, France, Russia, and eastern Europe attracted by the scenic landscape, the reasonable prices and the favourable climate. In fact, Dammam ,in opposite to most cities in Saudi Arabia, benefits from a tropical moderate climate throughout the whole year. During summer, temperatures can get as high as 35, in the winter they usually range between 20 and 30 making it possible to swim throughout the whole year.

title: Talk:Dammam


text:
Talk:Damnoen Saduak

TAT Listings
Moved TAT listings (mostly See section, so could be useful) to Talk:Damnoen Saduak/Listings for future reference. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 00:01, 3 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Damnoen Saduak