text:
Talk:Belarus

Warning
I removed the warning box warning people not to support organizations trying to overthrow the government. It's two years out of date, and was a pretty obvious warning anyway. --(WT-en) Serotrance -

Factbook removed. --(WT-en) Professorbiscuit

questions about regulations
Please find the answers to your questions below:

The article says that a letter of invitation is no longer required to get a visa, as long as one has the name and address of a citizen. Is that true for all visitors? I have read news items in the last couple of years about invitation letters not being required for visitors from some countries, but does this apply to all visitors from all countries now?

A: The official word from the Belarus Embassy in the UK is:

Effective 1 October 2004 citizens of all the 25 European Union states, as well as of Andorra, Argentina, Bahrain, Brazil, Bulgaria, Canada, Chile, Croatia, Iceland, Japan, Kuwait, Liechtenstein, Norway, Oman, Qatar, South African Republic, South Korea, Saudi Arabia, Switzerland, United Arab Emirates and Uruguay, applying for Belarusian visitor’s or business visas who want to stay in the Republic of Belarus for the period less than 30 days do not any longer need formal letters of invitation from Belarusian citizens or organizations. This can be found at: http://uk.belembassy.org/visainfo.html

Note: It says "Belarusian visitor’s or business visas", it does not say "tourist visas" and recently we have heard that UK citizens are being told that they still need an invitation. I can send you a link to this discussion if you want. So this point is still not clear.

The last time that I travelled between Warsaw and Minsk by train was in 2003. Passport control took place at the border on board the train in both directions. The article says that when going from Minsk to Warsaw by train, in addition to passport control in the train, travellers must go to the customs office in the train station before getting on the train, even if they have nothing to declare. I have travelled from Minsk to Warsaw by train a few times and I never did this. If this is now required for all travellers, where is the customs office?

A; I have also traveled back and forth from Minsk to Warsaw several times. Customs inspection were always done after the wheels are changed at the boarder (in Brest I believe). I have also traveled by train from Vilnius to Minsk and again the customs check took place on the train. I am sure that this is not correct.

The article says that visitors must buy insurance and suggests buying this insurance at Kalinka in Warsaw. The last time I bought this insurance, I had to do it in Belarus after I arrived. Does one have to buy this insurance before going to Belarus now? Is Kalinka the only place to get it?

A: Usually you can only by the insurance at the Minsk airport or at an insurance office in Belarus. Here is a link to ONE insurance company that has a website in English. We usually buy health insurance from their office on 16 Rakovskaya st. in Minsk: http://www.belgosstrakh.by/eng/branches

All of this and much more can be found on our Travel Guide to Belarus, a collaborative effort by a citizen of Belarus and a native English speaker: http://www.travelswise.com/belarus.htm. If you have other questions about travel to Belarus, write to us at Emmergene AT Yahoo DOT com

Letter of invitation
DRAW ATTENTION that from the 1st of October 2004 Belarus set up a simplified visa-issuing procedure. Citizens of European Union (including Estonian citizens and stateless persons residing permanently in Estonia) who are going to Belarus with private or business purposes for the terms less than 30 days do not need an invitation. Such persons have to apply for a visa personally. Their completed visa application forms should contain detailed information about a purpose of their visit as well as a complete data of an inviting party.

Visas
I'd like to bring up the visa section yet again (January 2009). The section looks nice and informative, but I'm not sure of the accuracy of the information. It seems to contradict itself when the steps on the side list that you need an invitation yet the section text claims that visas are not needed. I have removed the US from countries which do not need a visa and removed the all-caps message that invitations are not needed as Belarus embassy to the US lists otherwise. I hestitate to mess with the info for other nations, so someone knowledgeable about this should try to fix it. (WT-en) AHeneen 09:54, 29 January 2009 (EST)

I am planning a visit to Belarus (I'm writing in August 2010) and have discovered that visa modalities at the Minsk Airport have changed since the last time I was there in 2008. As of January 2010, the price of a visa at the Minsk Airport, for Europeans whose country has a Belarussian embassy, is 180 Euros (three times the normal price of 60 Euros); for Europeans whose country does not have a Belarussian embassy, 90 Euros (50% above the normal price of 60 Euros); for American citizens, 275 Euros. (I imagine one of the most expensive visas in the world!) Could someone please update the incorrect information on the Wikivoyage page?

Sort term visa details
In page http://www.sweden.belembassy.org/eng/legislation/ is a valid list of the countries that do not need the invitation for SORT TERM Visa.

In the Embassy page is written following: To get a short-term visa for private purposes (visiting Belarusian relatives, friends, other private matters) with the period of validation 30 days maximum for 1-, 2- or multiple entries for a citizen of EU as well as national of several other countries, such as Australia, Andorra, Argentina, Bahrain, Brazil, Canada, Croatia, Chili, Island, Israel, Norway, Swiss Confederation, Republic of Korea, New Zealand, USA, Uruguay, Republic of South Africa, Japan NO VISA SUPPORT DOCUMENTS SHALL BE REQUIRED.

I have PERSONAL experience about the short term visa also-> I did not need Invitation. I just filled the paper that they told to fill. Really easy procedure.

Regions
Belarus needs to be broken down in to regions. If you are familiar with the country, please add to this discussion with any ideas! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:25, 13 February 2009 (EST)
 * I would suggest to use the official division into oblasty (Minsk, Brest, Gomel', Vitebsk, Mogilev, Grodno). This division is more or less consistent with cultural specifics, and I do not know any other accepted way for dividing this country. (WT-en) Atsirlin 17:55, 13 February 2009 (EST)

 * Ah, I didn't realize there were so few oblasts—six is a good number, so lets do that. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:45, 13 February 2009 (EST)

Language
Which language do we use for Belarus? English transcriptions for names in Russian and Belorusian are different (e.g., Grodno – Hrodna, Mogilev – Mahilyow). I would prefer the Russian version, since most people (including myself;) do not know Belorusian, and the transcription of Belorusian names looks by far ambiguous. Russian is the official language of Belarus, but most road signs are written in Belorusian. What is the proper choice then? (WT-en) Atsirlin 05:54, 15 February 2009 (EST)

 * The basic rule is that we use the most common English name, rather than a standard based on transliteration. The best way, I think, to determine which is the more common name in English is to do an advanced search on google restricted to sites in the English language, and then see which term gets more page hits. Mogilev + Belarus gets about twice as many hits as Mahilyow + Belarus, so we should definitely use Mogilev. Grodno and Hrodna get nearly the exact same amount of hits (103,000 & 106,000), so I think it's fine to pick either one. In the individual city articles themselves, though, it would be nice to put both the Belorussian and Russian names in parentheses.  --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:54, 16 February 2009 (EST)

 * Or follow Wikipedia, not because it's authority, but because they are populated by an incredible number of pedantics who like to discuss things far beyond the grave - which comes in handy for us, since then we don't have too :) also, it might be handy to make redirects where in doubt, so we don't end up with serveral guides for the same cities, since it's not too obvious that e.g. Mogilev is the same city as Mahilyow.--(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 21:35, 16 February 2009 (EST)

 * Good point.
 * We also need to standardise on non US varieties of English - at least until the current long-lived dictatorship is overthrown or he dies since he doesn't like US spelling and English where it is taught in schools and universities is of the British variety. --W. Frankemailtalk 14:00, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

 * The Russian transliteration is not the most common anymore. In Minsk, the Belarusian strandard is used everywhere in the city centre on signs for tourists. On the Belarusian Railway website, searching for the Russian-langiage transliteration produces either nothing or suggestions for the standard Belarusian transliteration. It's time to move on.

Online courses
Hello, why this text is not allowed to stay in the article? -> "" There is also Belarusian laguage available as online courses ""

 * Wikivoyage is a guide, not a link to other guides or references, or secondary sources. Travellers may be interested in doing a course while travelling, so the physical language courses are allowed.  Online courses are not. as they are just guides for travellers rather than an activity for them at the destination.  See Project:External links.  Feel free to contribute language information to the Wikivoyage Phrasebook.  --(WT-en) Inas 10:01, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

Belarusian river cruise development routes
Hello,

Why someone deleted this writing from the article from headline"By river boat cruises"? --> ""In Belarus there is number of excisting river cruises and a lot of routes are under development."" Link to discussion http://forum.esmasoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=4806&sid=5386a79705d7bdb3aeb963eafbe393e5 have many further links about development planned river routes in Belarus.

Arguments about whether Belarus is a dictatorship
I sort of can't believe I'm even posting this, but look at the recent history of edits and editing summaries. I don't think there's much question that it's eminently fair to call Belarus a "de facto dictatorship." If anything, it's generous to use the term "de facto." Shall we arrive at a consensus here and then drop the subject? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 18:31, 18 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Personally, I do not support this statement. Do you have any own experience with Belarus, or simply draw information from TV news? I have been to different parts of the country four times during the past 4-5 years, and I am quite sure that the traveler will never experience any "dictatorship" there. Foreigners are free to do whatever they want, as in Russia or Ukraine. Therefore, I consider this "de facto" remark as largely irrelevant for wikivoyage.
 * To clarify my own position: I am also concerned about the present political and especially economical situation in Belarus, but let's leave this matter to politicians. It has nothing to do with traveling. (WT-en) Atsirlin 19:13, 18 May 2011 (EDT)

 * What does it mean to say that "foreigners are free to do whatever they want" as a standard for whether a country is under a dictatorship? Let's suppose that tourists can do whatever they want (presumably not including seeking out members of the opposition and sharing notes with them?) and aren't followed or spied on. Does that mean the country is a democracy or something? I have traveled to various countries that were dictatorships at the time, including China, Indonesia, Thailand, and South Korea, and in none of those countries was I subjected to any persecution. Is that the standard we are supposed to use? I would add that even as a traveler, I did see, perceive, or/and hear from people about ways in which the heavy hand of the corrupt dictatorial government oppressed or/and extorted income from them in a couple of the countries I mention. But it would have been pretty easy in any of them for tourists to take package tours that didn't expose them to army roadblocks imposed to extort money from moped drivers, complaints from individuals about corruption, or remarks from individuals on previous instances of persecution from the governments still in power. If you think it's fair to say that, though Belarus is a dictatorship, this infrequently directly affects travelers, fine, but it's not a good argument against calling Belarus a dictatorship. And such basic information is relevant to travelers because it helps them understand what the situation is. If you think the current situation is irrelevant, then surely past history is completely irrelevant, too, and I would find that a very weak argument, too. So instead of asking whether I've personally visited Belarus, how about if you make the argument that Belarus is not a dictatorship because of x, y, and z? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 20:38, 18 May 2011 (EDT)

 * I have actually thought that "democracies" are strictly following the presumption of innocence principle. Therefore, one should rather ask why Belarus is a dictatorship, since officially it is still a republic-)
 * Otherwise, I think that the answer strongly depends on what you call a dictatorship. I've asked of your personal experience, since people inside Belarus do not consider their country in this way even if they oppose the government. The same holds for people in Russia when asked about Belarus or about Russia that has somewhat similar political issues. I think, it's a very bad idea if a foreigner reads wikivoyage, comes to Belarus, and tells locals: "Oh, you are living under a dictatorship. How do you survive?" At best, this won't be appreciated. The current situation in Belarus is very controversial, and it has to be described like that. It is indeed a poor country, but it is rather developed and super neat, so that you never deem it poor unless you start comparing GDP's. The real political system is quite authoritarian, but personal rights conform to western standards. That's what the traveler should know about the current situation in the country. Not the vague wording like "dictatorship".
 * And the last thing: I looked through some other post-Soviet states. Kyrgyzstan and Azerbaijan are just republics (funny, isn't it?), while Uzbekistan is "Republic, authoritarian presidential rule". This might be the compromise wording. (WT-en) Atsirlin 10:23, 19 May 2011 (EDT)

 * I definitely take your point on inconsistencies in descriptions and have no problem with the wording you suggest. Side point: Of course, any foreigner who would be tactless and stupid enough to tell locals they are living in a dictatorship - _especially_ if it is one - probably has no business traveling to any country under anything vaguely resembling authoritarian rule. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 15:35, 19 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Perfect! In the next few days, I will make some changes to the Understand section. It is also lacking the historical part. (WT-en) Atsirlin 17:09, 19 May 2011 (EDT)

Stay safe box
Is that almost five year old warning box still valid and necessary? Jjtkk (talk) 12:35, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * No. I've removed it. --118.93nzp (talk) 04:14, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

Belorussian Visa regime
So according to this and this part of our article is outdated on the issue. Any takers for sorting through the whole mess? Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:06, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Medical insurance
There is a compulsory state medical insurance for visitors to Belarus if you do have a policy valid in Belarus. I take it this should read "do not"? Danielt998 (talk) 00:34, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

 * Indeed, it looked strange: I have quickly fixed it, too. Zezen (talk) 19:17, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Style needs fixing
I have touched up a few sentences, but an English native speaker should find and fix:

Drivers attack their art with an equal mix of aggressiveness and incompetence. Guidelines tend to be lax and rarely followed.

and the like. Zezen (talk) 19:14, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Special circumstances AD 2021
Airports and borders, see: Talk:Poland if somebody deems it important here.

Zezen (talk) 14:18, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

Belarusian language
In this edit it is said that "Belarusian is generally only spoken in rural villages". The following sentence says that 54.1% of Belarusian residents consider it their native language. So do more than half the population live in rural villages or do people not speak their native language? The sentence also says that 26% normally speak it at home, so apparently people in cities mostly use Russian even at home, but I think one should elaborate. I'll make a try at consolidating the sentences, but I know nothing about the real situation, so checking and improving my version is needed. –LPfi (talk) 10:19, 11 January 2023 (UTC)
 * I've never been to Belarus, but from videos made by Belarusian YouTubers, most Belarusian people speak Russian in daily life, even though they may consider Belarusian to be their national language. People may consider one language to be their native language, but in practice speak another language in their daily lives. My understanding is that Belarusian has been compulsory in school since independence, but you'll hardly hear it in the streets unless you go into the rural villages and listen to conversations among the elderly. My hunch is that the situations of the Belarusian language in Belarus is similar to that of the Irish language in Ireland. The dog2 (talk) 15:56, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Warning box
Belarus is not a war zone. Why do we have a warning box? What is the danger to life and limb here? Brycehughes (talk) 23:11, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
 * While the risk of Belarus becoming a war zone is lower than 2022 or 2023, oppression remains severe, and warrants the warning box in its own right. /Yvwv (talk) 23:20, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Although I agree with @Brycehughes view here that Belerus doesn't feel like a warzone in any way, the advice from multiple governments appears consistent and emphatic around not travelling there. I would say keep it as a Warning. Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:34, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The advice comes from governments that are geopolitically aligned against Belarus. Regardless, I'm sincerely curious – what is the danger to life and limb? Brycehughes (talk) 00:33, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't think 'life & limb' is the criteria here. Ever since they used fighter jets to force a RyanAir flight to land on their territory just so that they could arrest a dissident it is probably fair to say that there are significant 'rule of law' challenges. Andrewssi2 (talk) 01:00, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Life and limb is the criteria for the warning box. Being a travel website, it's not really our role to warn people about illiberalism. Brycehughes (talk) 01:24, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The same criteria on that page says: "If a government agency has listed a travel warning for an area (see #Travel advisories), a warning box is appropriate." - it could be argued that the governments in question are biased against Russia and Belarus and that their travel advisories are politically motivated (not my view btw), although revising the warning box criteria to this extent should be discussed at a site level.  Andrewssi2 (talk) 01:33, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Just out of curiosity, I do note that more 'neutral' countries (wrt to the current situation Ukraine) do not seem to issue travel advisories to Belarus. Wikivoyage doesn't have a long list of 'global south' countries, but Hong Kong, India, Singapore and Brazil don't seem to mention Belarus. This links to China and South Africa advisories are generally broken. Andrewssi2 (talk) 01:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The template mentions that a WarningBox is also warranted when travel advisories exist. Given that you are intent on removing WarningBoxes across the site, it would be warranted to revisit the ambiguous language on when WarningBox is used first. I'm a little hesitant to conclude "Western governments are politically biased". Western governments issue travel advisories because they have concerns about their ability to ensure that citizens can make informed decisions about their risk of harm - and those citizens are a not insignificant portion of WV's readers. Cyali (talk) 02:06, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Governments with robust foreign affairs ministries also use travel warnings as a subtle form of economic sanction. These warnings are often copied by other countries either due to alliances or simply not having robust foreign ministries themselves to do their own work. If only the world were so neat and tidy that travel warnings were not politicized. We're going to have to think for ourselves here. Brycehughes (talk) 03:00, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Including warnings does not preclude individuals from thinking for themselves. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I meant think for ourselves as editors. Brycehughes (talk) 03:47, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * As opposed to coming to a consensus? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:50, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry for being unclear. I meant think for ourselves as editors instead of reflexively parroting government travel advisories. Brycehughes (talk) 03:59, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Forgive me, but I have a hard time taking the second-hand accounts of WV editors over the robust infrastructure that foreign ministries have in place to develop travel advisories. Travel advisories are typically developed by that country's consular research and its on the ground presence in nearby or in-country missions of that country. Countries do not parrot eachother's travel advisories to avoid having to do the legwork themselves. I would encourage you to think objectively with The traveller comes first in mind. Cyali (talk) 04:13, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not making this up. Brycehughes (talk) 04:17, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm agreeing with this. Every WV contributor 'might' be less objectively biased than the US State department or the UK Foreign Office, but we also have nowhere near the level of resources and responsibilities in making those judgements. Andrewssi2 (talk) 04:18, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * [Edit conflict:]So, I agree that travel advisories are often given or not given for political reasons, and that we probably shouldn't assume they are always accurate, but at the same time, what makes us as individuals better judges of a country's safety? What had happened before you decided to get rid of a bunch of warnings or move them always seemed to be people deleting them for nationalistic reasons or because they sought personal gain from tourism to their countries, rather than that they provided credible expert reasons for doing so. I think we should have strong reasons not to include the key points of official travel advisories. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:18, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * What makes us better judges is that we as a team of editors at least theoretically represent a broader range of countries than only those that can afford to issue travel advisories and are who are often allied geopolitically. No one's saying to dismiss government warnings, rather we should consider them in context. In the case of Belarus, there is no war there, no one is talking about war breaking out there (except these travel advisories hmm), no tourists are losing their lives there, and it is no more dangerous than Moldova. Brycehughes (talk) 04:31, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I mentioned this on Talk:Socotra but at this point @Brycehughes, I feel you have a bigger grievance with the ambiguous wording of Template:Warningbox which explicitly indicates that it should be used for government travel advisories and non-immediate dangers like the death penalty for drug possession. Throughout these discussions, your focus has been on whether or not there is immediate harm to visitors - but travel advisories and warning boxes are meant to address risks and to warn readers of things they should consider, not to tell travellers that they will die within 30 seconds of exiting their plane or to forbid them from traveling. Cyali (talk) 04:32, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the best place to have this conversation is as a proposal to reword Template:Warningbox's doc, which I think the community would benefit from since the ambiguity doesn't meaningfully favour reaching a consensus that we can appreciate. Cyali (talk) 04:33, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Sure, go for it, but let's keep the Belarus discussion here. Brycehughes (talk) 04:37, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * What's the evidence that Moldova is just as dangerous as Belarus? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:42, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd argue that it's more dangerous. Kremlin has stationed troops in Belarus, that's about the extent of it. Other than that, the country is stable (perhaps unfortunately). Meanwhile, Russia is actively seeking to destablise Moldova, and from the enclave of Transnistria has the ability to launch proxy attacks. That said, Moldova is still stable for the time being. Brycehughes (talk) 04:47, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd counter that there have been Ukrainian attacks on targets in Belarus and that when there have been demonstrations, they have been attacked violently, in addition to the truly unusual incident of hijacking noted above. I'd provide warnings for both countries, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:52, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd argue that we'd be getting the proportionality of risk all wrong if we warning boxed over those things, much like we don't warning box over terrorism in France or mass shootings in the United States. That said, yes I'd be happier if we warning boxed Belarus then we also warning boxed Moldova and potentially other countries in the region – at least then we're maintaining a semblance of fairness. Brycehughes (talk) 05:00, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I think visitors to the U.S. do need to be warned about the proliferation of guns here, though the point needs to be kept in mind that there is much more danger from road accidents than anything else. And maybe that should be our starting point in a discussion of warningboxes - is anything else a greater danger, or if not, is it a surprising one? Though places with particularly dangerous road conditions should be called out for that, too. It's all a matter of pros and cons. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:28, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree. The potential risk of war (which has been ongoing for 3 years) is not valid reasoning for a warning box (I find many of the warnings by Western governments a bit politically motivated which is something to consider); if anything, it should be a caution box as it does not cause danger to life and limb. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 07:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, a cautionbox seems sufficient. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:52, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree a warningbox doesn't seem merited. A cautionbox is probably reasonable, either in the lede or in "Stay safe". —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:01, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd be cool with a cautionbox in the Stay Safe section, as it highlights the Western warnings for those that are interested. Brycehughes (talk) 23:06, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

The language habits of political dissidents
The dog2 if you don't mind me asking, where did you learn this? And do you think it's realistic that a traveller would know that a someone was a political dissident but not know what language they spoke? Brycehughes (talk) 18:05, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I've seen Twitter posts by Belarusian political dissidents living in the West like Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya decrying the widespread use of Russian in Belarus, and calling for Belarusian to be the sole official language of Belarus. From what I gather, they see the use of Russian in Belarus as a symbol of Russian domination, and feel that a truly free and independent Belarus would have Belarusian as its main language. If you see someone waving the old Belarusian flag (the white flag with a red strip in the middle), chances are is that person is a political dissident and might be offended if you speak to them in Russian. If you watch YouTube, Western channels always use the old flag and not the current official Belarusian flag to represent Belarus as a sign of solidarity with the opposition. The dog2 (talk) 18:11, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * yeah, day by day, little by little, Wikivoyage is turning to TheDog2's Fabulous Encyclopaedia Of Mirabolant Factoids Totally Ignorant Of WV:Tone and WV:Goals and non-goals, with emphasis on political dissidence, wherever, whenever. Ibaman (talk) 18:29, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Agreed; X is terribly biased source for such information. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 20:20, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

I've deleted the comment. This is not worth wasting time on. We are trying to build a travel guide, and don't need to be constantly removing your personal political commentary. Please start a blog where you can post this sort of stuff instead of wasting our time. Ground Zero (talk) 18:42, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) You think it's not important, but do you want to risk offending a Belarusian opposition supporter? As a travel guide, our job is to tell people how to RESPECT THE LOCAL CULTURE and AVOID OFFENDING LOCALS. If you meet a Lukashenko supporter, then sure, speak Russian all you want, but if you meet an opposition supporter, speaking Russian could be offensive. Unless you are telling me that we should disregard local sensitivities and do whatever we want. The dog2 (talk) 18:44, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * what we are telling you: STOP ENCYCLOPEDIZING, READ WV:TONE, READ WV:Goals and non-goals AND PROVE US BY YOUR WRITING THAT YOU HAVE INDEED READ AND UNDERSTOOD WIKIVOYAGE POLICY. Ibaman (talk) 18:50, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Nowhere does it say that we should tell people to speak whatever language they want and completely disregard local political sensitivities. We don't take sides on political disputes, but if language choice at a place has political connotations, that is usually not obvious to a foreigner, and we need to inform people about that. The dog2 (talk) 19:05, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * can you tell Russian and Belarusian languages apart in any way whatsoever? where did you get the notion that Walt Disney is a Jew? As GZ said, your edits are always messy, inaccurate, digressional, and we lose valuable time cleaning them up. Ibaman (talk) 19:09, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, all those dissidents waving the dissident flag one bumps into while travelling in Belarus. Brycehughes (talk) 19:11, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Many basic expressions are very different between Russian and Belarusian, such as "goodbye", "thank you" and "yes". Someone with zero knowledge of both will probably not be able to tell them apart, but if you learn even just a few simple basic greetings, the differences between the two languages are very obvious. Belarusian and Ukrainian are very similar, but a Russia speaker is going to find it a little tricky to understand Belarusian, though they will likely be able to recognise cognates here and there. Those expressions I mentioned will be understood by a Ukrainian speaker when said in Belarusian, but will not be understood by a Russian speaker. The dog2 (talk) 19:27, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * "will be understood by a Ukrainian speaker when said in Belarusian, but will not be understood by a Russian speaker." wishful speculation, again, as always. This is so tiresome. Ibaman (talk) 19:36, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Go and look at the phrasebooks. It will become obvious to you how different those expressions are between Russian and Belarusian. The dog2 (talk) 19:38, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * the problem here is your condescending generalizing attitude about the linguistic ability of every Russian citizen, if you care to focus your vision. Tell us about your deep and reliable research about Walt Disney's ancestry, don't forget this either. Ibaman (talk) 19:50, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

The one on Walt Disney was my mistake and I apologise. But I said nothing about the linguistic ability of Russians. Of course a Russian could learn Belarusian as a foreign language and understand Belarusian that way. What I mean is a Russian who had zero previous exposure to Belarusian and suddenly tries to listen in on a Belarusian conversation one day. The reason why a Ukrainian will understand a lot more Belarusian than a Russian (presuming both of them are monolingual and only speak their national language) is because Ukrainian and Belarusian are very similar to each other, while Russian has diverged from them more significantly. This has nothing to do with linguistic ability. Ukrainian-Americans who don't speak Russian have told me that they can understand Belarusian for the most part, but find it trickier to understand Russian. The dog2 (talk) 20:05, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * If I recall rightly, there's consensus already, that TheDog2's edits about this part of the world are consistently unreliable.  am I right or am I being too harsh here? Ibaman (talk) 20:49, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * There have been many instances where The dog2's edits have been just plain wrong. They regularly post things that they've "heard", or have "read on Twitter" or on Reddit, as is evidenced by this discussion. Despute several of us pleading with The dog2 not to use Wikivoyage as as soapbox for their personal observations about politics and sensitivities of people in other countries, they continue to do so. I am fed up cleaning up after them. Given their history, we should assume that they are wrong unless they provide links to reliable sources. Ground Zero (talk) 21:07, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * There's plenty of articles about Belarusian political dissidents accusing Lukashenko of suppressing the Belarusian language in favour of Russian:, , , . Belarusian language has a whole section about that. The dog2 (talk) 21:08, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Take it to your blog. This isn't a travel guide for people who travel to talk to political dissidents in countries with oppressive language policies. Ground Zero (talk) 21:28, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I'm sorry, The dog2, but you waste way too much time with this stuff. You got better about this for a while, but you now seem worse than ever. The chances that you'll run into a dissident by accident and offend them because you can speak Russian but not Belarusian? Really, come on! Should we impose a topic ban on you, or would you stop making edits about politics? If you think something should be added or changed, you should start a discussion on the relevant talk page and not act if people prefer not to talk about it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:01, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I believe so (regretfully). -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 21:21, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

 * We do have text about political implications of language use, e.g. at Tibet, but I'm not convinced we need any here. Pashley (talk) 09:35, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Belarus


text:
Talk:Belém

I think we need a disambiguation page here as there's also Belém Portugal, n'est pas? Is this one significantly more well known? (WT-en) Majnoona 23:42, 28 May 2006 (EDT)
 * I agree that a disambiguation page could be useful, but on Belém (disambiguation) instead, and we'd use Template:Otheruses here. I'm not sure if this Belém is significantly more well known worldwide (well, from a Brazilian's point of view, it definitely is), but as the Portuguese Belém is a district of Lisbon, I think people are more likely to type in Belém when looking for the Brazilian place, and not that district. (WT-en) Ricardo (Rmx) 00:24, 29 May 2006 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Belém


text:
Talk:Belfast

Bar Descriptions
Some, in fact most, of the bar descriptions read like they were written by the bar's advertising firms. Double exclamation marks and "this is the place to be seen!!" style utterances appear everywhere. I have tried to bring a few of the more outrageous ones back down to reality, but considerably more work needs to be done in this area. -- 192.193.245.15 12:04, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Exactly, the kingsd head is given a glowing review here. Although it is a great pub, the beer and the craic are good -the food is shite. Seriously, its reheated burgers and ovenchips. This section needs intensive re-working (unbiased of course...)

I totally agree that the bar descriptions are minimally informative and read like small ads. They make the article very long and detract from its usefulness. Also the spelling 'craic' is wrong - should be 'crack' if the word has to be used (see wiki article on 'craic'). (WT-en) Cooke 17:12, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

Ice statue & Prarie dog images
The following is a discussion/debate about the inclusion of images "Ice statue in grounds of Belfast City Hall" and "Prairie dogs in Belfast Zoo", but it should be noted that this was a very old discussion when these were the only two images present on the page. We now have a better mix of more photos. We also have some text mentioning prairie dogs, so we might (I suppose) want to reconsider including these images -- (WT-en) Harry Wood 12:23, 23 January 2007 (EST)

I'm removing the photos. They are not adding anything to the article. It's about Belfast, and not about praerie dogs or ice statues. -- (WT-en) Nils 07:05, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT)
 * (old 2004 discussion)

Again, I remvoed the images. Please read the Project:Image policy. a) If people are not interesting to an article about a place, then neither are ice statues. b) Praery dogs in some zoo are the same all over the world. If you want dogs, go to an animal website. I stand by my claim that these photos add nothing at all to the article, and waste bandwidth. Now, if you had any photos of Belfast landmarks, by all means, please upload a representative picture and add it to the article. -- (WT-en) Nils 01:11, 14 Apr 2004 (EDT)

 * Firstly, you undid my changes twice without mentioning it in the talk pages, so I believe you are in no position to demand I do the same. On the matter of the pictures;

 * Every couple of years or so in Belfast ice statues are created in the grounds of the Belfast City Hall. That is what the first picture shows, the ice statue with the grounds of the city hall, Belfast's biggest tourist attraction, in the background. The photograph in question was displayed in Belfast Central Library in a recent exhibition about Belfast.

 * The second photo depicts the 'free' prairie dogs, which run wild throughout the park and are a well known Belfast landmark.

 * The photos combined come in at a size of 20k, well under the guidelines under the Project:Image_policy. Being quite well qualified to talk about Belfast, it is my opinion that they do add to the article. They show landmarks and are very small.

 * Lastly, your tone over this matter has been highly insulting and patronising. I have contributed quite a few articles to wikivoyage, and deserve more respect than to be admonished several times for not neven breaking any rules. By acting first and then telling me off, you are being very arrogant. On your page, you state that a travel guide needs pictures. I fully intend to add them back in. In the meantime, learn some manners.

 * 1) I did mention the removal on the talk page. I did this despite it not being wiki custom, exactly so you had a chance to reply. Instead it was you who re-added the changes. Obviously, there is disagreement; you are the one who chose not to discuss them.

 * 2) My tone is short and to the point whenever I can manage. If I have used any degoratary words or insults, you are welcome to point them out to me.

 * 3) I stand by my comment that pictures of ice statues and little dogs add nothing to the Belfast article. Note that your article talks neither about ice statues, nor about praerie dogs. I now even used search function for "ice" and "dogs" to make sure I didn't miss either. With such an explanation, the situation does change slightly. I still argue that both pictures do not give you a good (as in "comprehensive") impression of the city and hence are a less than perfect choice for the article.

 * 4) Wikipedia image policy is to use a "minimal number" of images. The "minimum" is obviously zero. If a picture adds no value to an article, then it could be argued that use of this image is against the "minimum" policy. Any inappropriate picture, no matter the size, is a waste of bandwidth. This just to clarify my point on this matter.

 * 5) I edit articles. If I were to discuss every minor change with everybody else beforehand, we'd never get anything done. Discussion should be done in case of disagreement, not before, unless it is obvious beforehand that something will become a point of disagreement. Instead of re-adding the images without any feedback, you should have pointed out your point of view. Just because you happen to live in Belfast does not mean you are the final authority over this article, any more than I am. As Evan says, "there is no I in Wiki". See also Point 1), above.

 * That done, I would like you to consider if these pictures are really representative of Belfast. Imagine this: You have, say, two images to describe your city. You want people to have a good impression, but to also know what it really looks like. What city scenes would you use to depict Belfast? Is the ice statue event so big that it's a primary tourist draw? What does a typical "interesting" tourist area look like? Architecture? Specific landmarks, like churches, highrises, temples, whatnot?

 * Even if you can convince me that the city market square with the ice statue is a good representative photo of Belfast - which you haven't yet - I would still contest the animal photo. Are praerie dogs so rare that they only occur in Belfast? Are they such a big draw that people come from all over to see them? Are they what make Belfast, well, "Belfast"? - You get the idea...

 * -- (WT-en) Nils 09:49, 14 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Gay and lesbian
I added a Gay & Lesbian section, but it was removed with no reason given. I added a similar G&L section to the Cork and Dublin Wikivoyages and they were not removed. It explains a lot. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 193.28.178.61 (talk • contribs)

 * We typically don't have a "gay and lesbian" section of articles; see Project:Information for gay and lesbian travellers and the Project:Big city article template. --(WT-en) Evan 12:09, 2 January 2007 (EST)

Of course there should be a Gay and Lesbian section to the main page it makes sense that it should be grouped under every other of the city's attractions, thus I readded it (WT-en) Tartimarty 20:39, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

 * Please do see Project:Information for gay and lesbian travellers and, if you think changes to the policy are in order, please challenge the policy on its talk page, rather than simply defying the policy. This information is wanted in our guides, just not in a way that ignores our manual of style, which keeps our presentation format standard throughout the entire site. For the time being, I have moved the content to Talk:Belfast/Gay and lesbian Belfast, so that it can be easily re-added in an agreed-upon format. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:23, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

Sinn Fein Shop
Umm I read somewhere in the article that it's common courtesy for British tourists to visit the Sinn Fein shop..? Is this serious..? Why would they want to be visiting Sinn Fein shops for..?

extra pic of city hall? --(WT-en) Lone.guner 12:45, 30 January 2008 (EST) not working? --(WT-en) Lone.guner 12:45, 30 January 2008 (EST)

 * :-) I like this misreading. The article actually says 'common curiosity', but I love the notion conjured up by 'common courtesy' - English folk feeling it's only polite to tiptoe in and buy some provo memorabilia.... 88.97.15.184 12:50, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

Districtification
Any support for districts? Lots of quality listings right now.(WT-en) Zepppep 16:08, 24 December 2009 (EST)

Boycott Belfast for Lennox
A pug-nosed Belfast dog named Lennox has inspired a two-year legal fight and animal-rights protests on both sides of the Atlantic. But he’s about to die at the insistence of Belfast City Council.

Dog wardens deemed the pit bull-type dog a public danger and seized him from his family two years ago. Northern Ireland’s senior appeals court last month upheld two 2011 court rulings that Lennox should be put to sleep. The time for further legal appeals expired Tuesday.

Game of Thrones
Much of the series is filmed in & around Belfast, and apparently there is now G-o-T based tourism. Should we cover that? Pashley (talk) 17:36, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

Time formatting
We should pick one time format - 12-hr or 24-hr clock - and stick with it. The article alternates between the two, which makes it harder for the reader to figure out what is going on when. Which format makes most sense for NI? Ground Zero (talk) 12:45, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Update
This page was overhauled in Sept 2020 as part of a general upgrade of Northern & Republic of Ireland. Responding to points above:
 * - Districtification IMHO would be unhelpful. Visitor amenities are concentrated in the centre and "near south" - other parts have things to see & do but wouldn't stand as separate pages;
 * - Bars and clubs, I merged LGBTQ into the rest as there are probably as many nowadays as there are QUB-friendly places.
 * - Stay safe - but a long list of dangerous neighbourhoods seemed OTT, though the "interface areas" are mentioned.
 * - DTF - the difficulty of any single format in the UK has been discussed at length. I've gone for 24 hr clock throughout NI which keeps it the same as the Republic.
 * - Game of Thrones will get some coverage on NI main page.

Work continues on the outlying counties. Grahamsands (talk) 17:50, 2 October 2020 (UTC)

Newtownabbey
I propose merging Newtownabbey into north Belfast – it’s a large conurbation but effectively a burb of Belfast from the traveller’s perspective. It lacks POIs (eg no abbey, new or otherwise), and has no standout accommodation or dining to draw you out there.

A couple of other Antrim destinations look sparse, but just as a temporary effect of Covid and they’re worth persevering with; whereas with Newtownabbey, what you see now is what you’ll always get. Grahamsands (talk) 13:29, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

 * The introduction reels off several attractions that haven't made it into the body of the article as listings, and Belfast Zoo, Ballyclare war museum, and Jordanstown Loughshore Park also seem to be in the area covered by the article. As there are bound to be other sleeping and dining options, even if they're not "standout", I think it probably has enough to stand on its own.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:20, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Belfast Zoo sits better in Belfast North, along with the castle and monuments on the hill; the war museum is some miles out, and Jordanstown Loughshore is just a grassy promenade. Still, Newtonabbey is a substantial conurbation, NI's third largest; it's a separate local government from the city, you might have an industrial or commercial reason to visit, and if in doubt let's build places up not knock them down. So I'll have a go, though it promises to be almost as much fun as Kilmarnock. Somewhere has to hold the title of "least interesting town in Ireland" and it might as well be here. Grahamsands (talk) 13:58, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

Featured destination?
Is this article good enough for Dotm? Or is anything missing? /Yvwv (talk) 00:20, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The time formatting is off: times should use the 12-hour clock, not a mix of 12- and 24-hour. Ground Zero (talk) 21:11, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Many listings are also missing coordinates. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 00:33, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Belfast


text:
Talk:Belfast/Gay and lesbian Belfast

''On Talk:Belfast it was said: Please do see Project:Information for gay and lesbian travellers and, if you think changes to the policy are in order, please challenge the policy on its talk page, rather than simply defying the policy. This information is wanted in our guides, just not in a way that ignores our manual of style, which keeps our presentation format standard throughout the entire site. For the time being, I have moved the content to Talk:Belfast/Gay and lesbian Belfast, so that it can be easily re-added in an agreed-upon format. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:23, 7 August 2007 (EDT)''

Gay and Lesbian Belfast
Ten years ago, there was little or no gay scene to speak of in Belfast, which was then quite a narrow minded and edgy city worn out by years of conflict. Since then something of a cultural renaissance has taken place and as if to break out of the gloom and depression of its violent past the city has become positively camp and colourful with an "anything goes" attitude in the air. Consequently Belfast is by far the most gay friendly city in Ireland, surprisingly even more so than its larger neighbour Dublin, and sports a much bigger and varied gay scene than the latter. The annual Pride Festival takes place every year usually the last week of July and culminates in a colourful parade and outdoor concert which is warmly received by the majority of the city's residents. While you probably won't see any gay men holding hands in the street,gays and lesbians can be spotted everywhere you go and homophobic attacks verbal or physical are fairly rare.

''' Gay Venues '''

Kremlin: Belfast's best gay owned dance club for men and women. Voted best Gay Venue in Ireland on numerous occasions. The Kremlin is located at Donegall Street. Tel: (028)90319061. To visit their very slow website: www.kremlin-belfast.com

Union Street Bar: Belfast's trendy award winning gay bar. Union Street, has a excellent late club night on Saturday - Event Horizon. Check it out today. Web Link: [www.unionstreetpub.com]

Dubarrys is Belfast's newest gay bar. Set over three floors, Dubarrys offers a great alternative to the banging house tunes and teenybopping antics of some other gay establishments.Frequented mainly by older gay men. A welcome addition to Belfast's booming gay scene. Gresham St T: 9032 3590 W: [www.dubarrysbar.co.uk]

Forbidden Fruit is the only place to be on a Monday nite. Taking place at the Potthouse Nightclub in Waring Street, it's the best gay venue on a Monday nite, followed by Bang which is almost as good, taking place in the Shoe Factory beside the Union Street Bar.

The Nest: Gay owned pub that attracts an older mixed crowd. The bar is located at Skipper Street. Serves food. Used to be called 'The Custom House'. Tel: (028)90245558.

MYNT (formerly "The Parliament" Belfast's 1st gay bar) Belfast's best gay dance club and bar for men and women. MYNT is located in Dunbar Street, Cathedral Quarter. Food is served at lunchtime all week. t: 028 90 234520. Web Link: [www.myntbelfast.com]

HOmono is Belfast's latest city centre bar has rebranded Monday nights and brought in respected Irish DJ Micky Modelle - who recently went UK Top Ten with club hit Dancing in the Dark. His 'funky ass shakin' music' will get the gay crowd & chums grooving into early Tuesday... and a Happy Hour will run from 10pm to midnight. Admission free before 10pm, £3 after. Club closes at 03:00. W: [www.monobelfast.com]

'''LICK! WOMEN''' - A place for women to come, relax and have a boogie in any of our three nights of every month in both Belfast and Derry. Men are welcome as guests. Always check the website for updates on acts etc. www.lick-women.com or join our bebo at www.lick-women.bebo.com. 1st FRIDAY of month - BELFAST - The Pavilion Middle Bar, Ormeau Rd, Belfast - Alternative, pop, chart and dance - 9.30pm, £5. 3rd FRIDAY of month

Sirens @Ten Square: A friendly and welcoming women-only crowd gets together on an ad hoc basis at the super-chic Ten Square Hotel. Email Sirens (sirensbelfast@yahoo.co.uk) or contact the hotel for nights and times (T: 9024 1001). The perfect laid-back intro to the local lesbian scene. Open third Friday in every month. 21:30-01:00.

Queens Bar: Gay friendly city centre pub located at Queens Arcade. Tel: (028)90321347.

The John Hewitt: Gay friendly Cathedral Quarter pub located at Donegall Street Tel: (028) 90233768. Web Link: www.thejohnhewitt.com

The Apartment: Gay friendly bar located at Donegall Sq West. Tel: (028) 90509777. Web Link: www.apartmentbelfast.com

The Spaniard: Lesbian friendly Cathedral Quarter bar and "Tapas Bar" at Skipper Street. The "Belfast/Basque" style bar is worth a visit for its tapas and cocktails. Great fun.

Saunas For the more adventurous gay visitor you can always try out the gay saunas.

The Garage: 2-6 Union Street (near the Kremlin). Web Link: www.garage-belfast.com

OUTSIDE, Belfast's newest gay men's health suite for gay, Bi-sexual and Bi-curious men. Web Link: www.belfastgaysauna.com

Move to Gay and lesbian Belfast
In my opinion, this text has merit as a travel topic on its own, comparable to LGBT Stockholm. /Yvwv (talk) 18:14, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Belfast/Gay and lesbian Belfast


text:
Talk:Belgium

Dutch / Flemish
There is an irritating busybody who keeps substituting "Flemish" for every reference to "Dutch" (the main official language in Belgium). Administrators please note: there IS no language called Flemish and it is not about to originate either. The language spoken in Belgium is the same as in Holland!

Information moved from main page
''The below was removed from the main article because a schedule is not the best information to have in the article due to the fact that it may change. What would be better is to have a few paragraphs explaining the possibilities along major routes.'' -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 13:02, 4 Nov 2005 (EST)

selected trains

 * IC 522 Oostende (22:39) - Brugge - Gent St Pieters - Denderleeuw - Bruxelles-Midi - Bruxelles-Central - Bruxelles-Nord - Schaarbeek - Leuven - Tienen - Landen - Waremme - Ans(B) - Liege-Guillemins - Angleur - Pepinster - Verviers Central - Welkenraedt (2:00)
 * IC 626 Antwerpen-Berchem (5:32) - Mechelen - Bruxelles-Nord - Bruxelles-Central - Bruxelles-Midi (6:14)
 * IC 1544 Liege-Guillemins (22:06) - Ans(B) - Waremme - Landen - Tienen - Leuven - Bruxelles-Nord - Bruxelles-Central - Bruxelles-Midi - Denderleeuw - Gent St Pieters - Drongen - Landegem - Hansbeke - Bellem - Aalter - Maria-Aalter - Beernem - Oostkamp - Brugge - Oostende (1:11)
 * IC 2128 Arlon (5:46) - Marbehan - Libramont - Jemelle - Marloie - Ciney - Namur - Gembloux - Ottignies - Bruxelles-Luxembourg - Bruxelles-Schuman - Bruxelles-Nord - Bruxelles-Central - Bruxelles-Midi - Denderleeuw - Gent St Pieters - Brugge - Oostende (9:52)
 * R 5307 Bruxelles-Midi (7:06) - Jette - Zellik - Asse - Mollem - Merchtem - Opwijk - Heizijde - Lebbeke - St.-Gillis - Dendermonde (8:00)
 * R 5308 Bruxelles-Midi (7:56) - Jette - Asse - Merchtem - Opwijk - Lebbeke - Dendermonde (8:39)
 * R 5309 Bruxelles-Midi (9:06) - Jette - Asse - Merchtem - Opwijk - Dendermonde (9:40)
 * R 5336 Dendermonde (16:11) - Opwijk - Merchtem - Asse - Jette - Bruxelles-Midi (16:47)
 * R 6490 Louvain-la-neuve-Uni (19:33) - Ottignies - Limal - Bierges - Wavre - Basse-Wavre - Gastuche - Archennes - Florival - Pecrot - St.-Joris-Weert - Oud-Heverlee - Heverlee - Leuven (20:27)
 * R 6492 Louvain-la-neuve-Uni (21:33) - Ottignies - Limal - Bierges - Wavre - Basse-Wavre - Gastuche - Archennes - Florival - Pecrot - St.-Joris-Weert - Oud-Heverlee - Heverlee - Leuven (22:27)
 * IC 6701 Schaarbeek (9:31) - Bruxelles-Nord - Bruxelles-Central - Bruxelles-Midi - Denderleeuw - Gent St Pieters - Brugge - Blankenberge (11:02)
 * IC 6702 Jemeppe-sur-Sambre (7:21) - Auvelais - Tamines - Chatelet - Charleroi Sud - Marchienne au Pont - Courcelles-Motte - Luttre - Nivelles - Braine-l'Alleud - Bruxelles-Midi - Denderleeuw - Gent St Pieters - Brugge - Blankenberge (9:59)
 * IC 6751 Blankenberge (16:38) - Brugge - Gent St Pieters - Denderleeuw - Bruxelles-Nord (18:00)
 * IC 6752 Blankenberge (17:57) - Brugge - Gent St Pieters - Denderleeuw - Bruxelles-Midi - Braine-l'Alleud - Nivelles - Luttre - Courcelles-Motte - Marchienne au Pont - Charleroi Sud - Chatelet - Tamines - Auvelais - Jemeppe-sur-Sambre (20:25)
 * IC 6969 Ottignies (18:16) - Bierges - Leuven (18:43)
 * R 7302 Genk (6:37) - Kiewit - Hasselt - Alken(B) - Sint-Truiden - Landen - Tienen - Leuven - Haacht - Bruxelles-Nord - Bruxelles-Congres - Bruxelles-Central - Bruxelles-Midi (8:34)
 * R 7310 Landen (6:08) - Tienen - Leuven - Haacht - Schaarbeek - Bruxelles-Nord - Bruxelles-Central - Bruxelles-Midi (7:18)
 * R 7349 Aarschot (6:47) - Wezemaal - Leuven - Bordet - Merode - Delta - Etterbeek - Bruxelles-Luxembourg - Bruxelles-Schuman (7:49)
 * R 7362 Hasselt (6:29) - Diest - Aarschot - Haacht - Bruxelles-Nord - Bruxelles-Central - Bruxelles-Midi (7:48)
 * R 8200 Bruxelles-Schuman (17:26) - Bruxelles-Luxembourg - Etterbeek - Merode - Vilvoorde - Mechelen - Antwerpen-Berchem (18:15)
 * R 8362 Bruxelles-Midi (16:09) - Bruxelles-Central - Bruxelles-Nord - Haacht - Aarschot - Diest - Hasselt (17:29)

Language
There is no such thing as Flemish language. Flemish is an umbrella for very many Dutch dialects (about two thousand; literally every village has its own) spoken in Flanders. But the only offical language is Dutch. See the Flanders' official site if you don't believe

removed sentence
I removed this sentence from the Stay Safe section: One exception: when driving a car, don't annoy other drivers with more expensive cars. It's biased and not even funny. See Neutral point of view (NPOV), an official policy on Wikipedia

(WT-en) Ninja Neko 07:23, 31 July 2006 (EDT)

 * While you have a good point, understand that this is not Wikipedia. Wikivoyage's standard for this is "be fair", which is considerably more tolerant of opinion than Wikipedia's. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 08:15, 31 July 2006 (EDT)

Generalization and racism
The following sentence contains a generalization about black people and muslims: 'For black people and muslims it is always best to introduce yourself as a tourist`. This gives a bad image about black and muslim Belgians. It is not rational to associate "danger" with a whole race or religion. I suggest removing the sentence or adding a more precise one (for example in poor areas). This is really ridiculous and turning this travel article into a political debate. Before closing I recommend the moderators to monitor this article, especially expressions claiming the superiority of the Flemish over the Walloons.

 * I agree with you about the statement in 'Stay safe' and I have removed it. However, I could not find the comments regarding Flemish and Walloons that you referred to. Anyway, please note that every contributor on Wikivoyage is a moderator, so if you feel that information is incorrect, please plunge forward and change it. However, when you do so, explain your reasons in the summary box at the lower end of the screen, or on this page if you make a major change. In this way, there is more chance that your edit will be accepted, and not reverted. If you plan to hang around, I suggest that you check out the information on these pages: Project:Goals and non-goals and Project:Manual of style. They will help you understand the Wikivoyage set up, and make it easier for you to contribute. Finally, if you have any questions, please feel free to ask me or any of the other regular contributors. Thanks for your input. (WT-en) WindHorse 09:22, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

Respect
I find this sentence "Also there can be some differences between the North and the South, Flanders tends to be more open-minded" to be a blatant contradiction to the recent trend in Flanders, illustrated by the tremendous growth of the notoriously closed-minded far-right party "Vlaams Belang". I do not wish to be the cause of yet another heated debate about the political tendencies of the Dutch-speaking community, I would just like to point out that though the author may see himself and the people of Flanders as more open-minded, all the factual evidence screams the contrary. And this particular sentence I am talking about is just one of a series of relatively "unfair" comments which, instead of helping out the potential traveler, give him a biased view of Belgium. Basically, this whole article is almost offensive, and in a way, it's pretty sad too, simply because it seems to reflect the sorry state of affairs in a portion of the Dutch speaking community. Indeed, some seem to believe that the Flemish are superior to the Walloons (in terms of intellect, open-mindedness, etc.). The trend can obviously be found in members of the two communities, but at least the Minister-President of Walloonia has never declared the Dutch speaking people around Brussels of being intellectually unable to learn French (cf. the recent declarations of Yves Leterme, the current Minister-President of Flanders). If one day you feel like creating a credible travel guide about Belgium, stay clear of this kind of biased comments. On the other hand, if you wish to promote Vlaams Belang's political agenda, go on like this, you're doing a good job of driving this country to a disastrous collapse.

Please note that I do not wish to associate the Flemish society as a whole with the Vlaams Belang. (Most Flemish still seem indeed to be able to exercise their rational faculty). I just wish to point out the trend.

Hypertranslations
This article (and most articles about Dutch-speaking places) seems to be written mostly by Dutch-speaking people, because it suffers from an ailment that seems typical of Dutch-speakers: to translate what does not need to be translated, or indeed, should not be translated at all.

Consider the following: Vlaanderen, Antwerpen en the river Schelde or generally known in English as Flanders, Antwerp and the river Scheldt. So it is reasonable to use these long-established English names, and add the local version where these may be handy, such as for road signs and train stations.

However, Oost-Vlaanderen, Vlaams-Brabant, Zeebrugge and the Westerschelde are all but unknown to 99% of English speakers; they have not yet reached a consensus on whether to use an English name for these concepts. So why do contributors to Wikivoyage (and Wikipedia) force-feed foreigners with names like "Flemish Brabant" without even once mentioning that you need the name Vlaams-Brabant if you want more information?

Moreover, Flemings and Dutchmen are polyglot: they translate names not only into English, but also into Spanish and Portuguese and Italian and whatever other language they happen to learn. In French (and sometimes German) it is the indigenous population that comes up with translations for places just across the border. But in other languages, especially English, it is the locals who insist on not using the real names, but making up translations.

Finally, they are also adept at keeping alive names that would otherwise die out. The town of Mechelen is known in French as Malines. The English used that name in the days they called Aachen Aix-la-Chapelle. Now that the British have noticed that French is not spoken in either town, it is mostly Flemings who insist on using the French name in English. Yet anyone who wants to buy a train ticket there will have to know the Dutch name and no other.

Isn't this worth thinking about? Why not always use the real name, and add translations merely as explanations?

The English translation for Mechelen is Mechlin, not Malines. This translation has now virtually died out although its origin is not French and therefore should not bother the Flemings who consider English borrowings from French (like Louvain, Bruges, Ypres, etc.) as archaic, misleading or even offensive. Could it be revived on this page?
 * Mechlin in English is almost exclusively used in connection with the lace produced in Mechelen. Only a specialist or student of literature would know the word. Ypres is because of the WWI associations still generally known in English as Ypres (and as the less complimentary Wipers). Any article about the region must use discretion and commonsense when negotiating what continues to be a political minefield Augusta2 (talk) 23:55, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Bruges
Bruges the biggest city of the world in the 14th century? That's so sad, since this has never been the case. Ever. It was never even the biggest of Belgium, even of Flanders. In fact, in the 14th century, Bruges was absolutely dwarfed by Ghent, which was the second most important city north of the Alps, the most important being Paris, almost rivalled by Ghent. Bruges the biggest? We laugh with Bruges! har har!!

PS. In the 15th century Antwerp was the biggest city, but the Spanjards strangled the city economically, leading to a brain drain, and therefore to the rise of Amsterdam and Holland's Golden Century.

Bruges the biggest, hahahahahha.

 * Why not change it then, instead of just commenting here? Ninja Neko

Respect section
Some remarks here:
 * A real Belgian patriot is very hard to find. The recent struggles in our country (read: we don't have a government since the politicians are bickering) has shown that there are a great number of people that do care for Belgium. The prominent Belgian flags displayed on many houses/appartments can attest for their patriotism. Maybe this can be mentioned?

 * The country shares virtually all its history with the Netherlands [...] and also France [...]. I'm not sure if this is correct. The people, the Belgae were around in Caesar's time even. The country has been independant for almost 200 years now, had its own colony too (Congo). Either way this statement is not necessary to mention in a 'respect' section, or am I wrong?

 * This is the most stupid statement I ever heard about Belgian history. Even prior to its independence from the Netherlands, the territory now known as Belgium had a history of its own. I re-wrote it extensively because it IS very important : medieval history is the reason why Belgium is a touristic area, just think about Bruges and the Brussels' grand-place, all these places are historical landmarks and they have nothing to do with either France or Netherlands...

 * What on earth is radically gay? People who don't tolerate straight people? :D That's rather hilarious. And muslim-feminist is also a bit far-fetched, I don't think that feministic muslimas are an issue anywhere in Western Europe. I'll remove these two terms.

Ninja Neko

 * Go ahead and change the history section. I agree that statements such as "a real Belgian patriot ...." have no place in a travel guide.--(WT-en) Wandering 10:16, 2 January 2008 (EST)

Major Cities: Brussels
Does Brussels' touristic interest really boil down to a couple of streets around the Grand' Place? That is really appalling!! It is not hard to tell that the person who wrote the Major Cities section is an Antwerpenaar. It's perfectly fine to promote Antwerp, Dinant, etc. but it is both grossly misleading and offensive to present Brussels in TWO sentences in the Major Cities section, and then mention it as a uninteresting place best avoided by tourists (too many criminals and eurocrats, apparently...) I'm truly shocked! You could at the very least mention some of the numerous Brussels museums. Be honest and get your facts right, please!

 * Actually all the city descriptions were way too long, and I've cut them down to size. They're supposed to be just very brief pointers, with the actual content in the articles themselves.

 * And oh: Plunge forward! (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:43, 11 April 2008 (EDT)

Economy
Do we really need a headline about the Economy? (WT-en) Globe-trotter 10:32, 12 April 2008 (EDT)

 * Not a full headline, no, but I rescued some bits into a "Work" section. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:53, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

I edited under the "sleep" section
I added the Conrad Brussels, I am doing a whole project on Belgium (Brussels specificaly) if you have any good places in Brussels for Belgium Waffles, please tell me!!!!

 * Psst — we've got a whole article on Brussels at, whaddayaknow, Brussels! (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:42, 20 August 2009 (EDT)

Apparent Flemish Bias / Historical inaccuracy
First of all : the article seemed to be heavily Flemish biased, with countless of references to Flemish places & events (even some whose relevance could be discussed) and almost nothing from Wallonia, giving the impression that there is nothing to do there. Although it is clear that the most famous touristic places such as Bruges or Ghent are located in Flanders, it is clear that Liège is one of the most exciting places for nightlife, and most of the parades, carnivals, and festivals are located in Wallonia - they were not even mentioned on that article !

Second of all : the reason why Belgium is visited by toursits is for its historical landmarks such as the buildings of Bruges and the Brussels Grand-Place. So why was the historical section so empty ? It is important to know that Belgium was the place of a rich history if you want to enjoy its treasures. And this would avoid stupid assumptions such as "Belgium shares its history with Netherlands and France", which completely wrong.

Therefore, I edited to add some Walloon places (and I even was fair enough to add other Flemish places), and I made a complete historical introduction to Belgium.

Get in entry requirements
In case anyone wants to know the source of my edits to include information about the visa exemption for 'Annex II' nationals to work during their 90 day visa-free entry, see this European Union document -. 195.195.166.57 17:41, 30 May 2011 (EDT)

pointless and very odd advice
Citing the article: ''In order to avoid paying for an international train ticket on the route between Amsterdam and Antwerp, you can get off in one of the border stations of Essen (Belgium) and Roosendaal (the Netherlands) and walk to the other on foot. You can follow the main road between the two places and will need to walk some 10 kilometers in a flat and open, though particularly uninhabited terrain.''

A very odd advice, walking 10 km across the border for this reason is completely pointless. I'm removing this paragraph from the article.

An international ticket between Belgium and the Netherlands does not cost more than the two national tickets combined (it's slightly cheaper even). Also, when you've bought a discount plan in one of the two countries, or are traveling free (e.g. Dutch students), that also applies to the international ticket (for the part up to the border of course). When in doubt ask at the ticket box in the railway station, they'll be happy to advice you on the cheapest ticket for your personal situation. Jahoe (talk) 08:58, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

 * P.S. Found alike paragraphs on the Belgium and Netherlands articles. Removed them both. Jahoe (talk) 09:02, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Risks from anti-Semitism
Nothing specific is mentioned about danger to recognizably Jewish people, but that's probably warranted. To put things in perspective, there was just a "Berlin wears the kippa" rally to protest an attack with a belt on a kippa-wearing Israeli non-Jew, anti-Semitic incidents are on the rise in Germany, and here is what the leader of the Berlin Jewish community said:

''The head of Berlin's Jewish community, Gideon Joffe, described anti-Semitism as "increasing," adding that things were gradually becoming "uncomfortable" in Berlin. But he also said the situation was "far removed" [from] current trends [in] France or Belgium, where anti-Semitism is more prevalent.''

Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:07, 29 April 2018 (UTC)

Needed work
The "Do" section seems to be a bit too long a list, with listings instead of brief descriptions with active links to relevant destination articles. It also has some red links in it. Furthermore, in English, colons have a space after them, not before them.

The "Eat" section is too specific when referring to restaurants "near Bourse station", which I guess we're supposed to figure out is in Brussels. This is the guide for the entire country. Very specific locations in Brussels should not be mentioned in the "Eat" section, which is supposed to provide a general overview. The place to mention them is, of course, in the Brussels guide, with specific listings relegated to Brussels district guides.

I'm sure other work is needed (and some is seemingly mentioned in other sections of this page), but these are things that jump out at me in a quick, incomplete look. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:22, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Boeuf à la flamande
Didn't this use to be mentioned with its French and Dutch names as one of the dishes of Belgium? I thought so, but it would be strange if it had been deleted. Maybe I read about it on Wikipedia. Anyway, is there a good reason not to include it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:32, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Belgium


text:
Talk:Belgrade

To do

 * Eat: move most of traditional serbian dishes into Serbia where it should belong to

(untitled)
I've edited some copy in this article, and added some new bits in this article to hopefully add a bit more meat and value to it, particularly in the Eat, Drink, Learn and Stay Healthy sections. I'll be expanding the Do, Drink and Eat sections in the coming days to add some of the more interesting off-the-beaten-path places to hang out in, as well as add more local seasonal events. I'll also be adding some new photos I've taken in my time in the city. Cheers, all ! :)(WT-en) Pdeniger 10:00, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

I've cut and pasted some paragraphs from the understand section into other parts of the article. Many of those pieces contain duplicated information and the text still needs to be properly seamed together for style and coherence. --(WT-en) Ricardo (Rmx) 21:51, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

Recent edits
I've reverted the article to the original state before Texugo's edits. Despite the fact I completely disagree with the style guide's suggestion on the use of American English, the reason for reversion is actually because the aforementioned edit completely removed the bulk of the information on landmarks, et cetera, in the See section. I have no idea what the logic behind this was, but the info contained in this section is valuable in terms of describing why these places should be seen in the first place, much in the same way you would find similar copy in any printed travel guide you would buy at the shop. Article reverted. (WT-en) Pdeniger 16:14, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

 * The changes by Texugo were explained in his edit summary. There appear to be clear copyright violations in the material. -- (WT-en) OldPine 16:30, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

Brutalism/Brutalist architecture
For anyone thinking of messing with this bit in the article, please read the following to see why the term was used:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brutalism

Thank-you.

(WT-en) Pdeniger 16:17, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

Speaking English
I'm sorry but moust of Serbs speak English. We learn English in our schools from the first grade (7 years old), that is from 1960s!!!!!Younger generations speak German, and less of them Italian. Older people born before World War II don`t speak English, it`s true, but they usually speak good French. So, in Belgrade you can definitly speak English, German, Macedonian, Slovenian, Croatian, Montenegrin, Bosnian and of course Serbian. We really learn languages, and speak many of them...it depends with who will you talk. KISSES FROM SERBIA

my small changes....with best intentions
Hi There,

i have changed main title "understand" ??? to General info, and i have reduced size of Knez Mihajlova street picture from 330px to 270px so it fits the next thumbnail.

Still, there is a blank space between the title and beginning of text, so i have checked the code but cant see non-breakable spaces or other peaces of code.

If this edit (my first) is not acceptable, please contact me on marginwalker.info@gmail.com

Regards,

 * Your welcome to plunge forward and edit, but please see our Project:Manual of style. Understand is a standard section heading in our Project:Article templates. I am not certain that there is anything you can do to control how the whitespace is laid out on the page apart from experimenting with where and how big the image is. - (WT-en) Huttite 06:48, 17 December 2009 (EST)

WATER AND ENGLISH
Stating that Belgrade water should be avoided is an absolute nonsense. I've changed it into a more balanced: "Despite the warnings of the US.CDC, tap water in Belgrade is perfectly safe."

If anyone feels like spending extra money on bottled water out of fear, go ahead.

As for the general knowledge of English, it obviously can't be compared to London, but it is still much better than in any other city in the region. Try Budapest, and good luck!

Visas

I have recently visited Belgrade and stayed with friends. They knew nothing of the foreigner registration forms and I wasn't asked for anything when I left Serbia on the bus to Croatia. Do the border police really bother with them, I wonder.

External guide link - for research.

 * All festivals and events in Serbia at one place

I removed th above from Events because it does not meed the external links policy. May be useful for research. - (WT-en) Huttite 06:41, 17 December 2009 (EST)

Condensing lists
Might I suggest editing some of the sections of the page? Listing 36 hostels for example, only makes the page messy and disorganised. —The preceding comment was added by MeriadocTargaryen (talk • contribs)

 * You could subdivide the "Hostels" section by neighborhood, if you like. Or do you think some of the hostels shouldn't be listed? The other question would be whether to create different articles for different areas ("districts") of Belgrade, but no-one has suggested that so far. So assuming we don't do that, what do you think is the best course of action? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:06, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Not sure, I have tried to edit the lists and organise them by their popularity, following the 7+/-2 rule, but apparently someone edited the page in the meantime and all of my work disappeared... I think we should only list the 9 most popular or best rated hostels/hotels in each category.

 * Order of popularity doesn't seem like a really clear or user-friendly way to organize a list, because a reader wouldn't know how to find a hotel in the list. And besides, popularity is quite changeable.

 * Before you delete listings wholesale, consider organizing the list by neighborhood or region, or just wait for more people to give their input. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:40, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

 * First off, 7 2 doesn't, I think, apply that strictly to listings. If everything (in particular See) would have to be cut down to a maximum of 9 we would need to omit a good deal of valuable information ending up with an inferior article.
 * There are of course things in the article that could be deleted (places with just a name and no additional info, closed places). However, if a place has both a name, address and a description I think it should be left in the article. The Eat and Sleep sections should both be subdivided into Budget/Mid-Range/Splurge, with the cheapest places in Budget etc. Also, most what is in the article is not listingfied (formatted as a listing) yet.
 * Finally, if there are more than 30 or so places in more than one section, it could perhaps be a good idea to subdivide Belgrade into districts. ϒpsilon (talk) 14:51, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Okay, and regarding descriptions, I am still not sure what to write without breaking the Don't tout rule. I mean, a lot of hotels only differ in their location, while having very similar amenities. MeriadocTargaryen (talk) 10:22, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

 * I think the following would be a perfectly OK description: "This hotel's amenities are similar to others in its price point, and its chief selling point is its location." But you could always say something about the size or appearance of the rooms, I suppose, and there's no harm in mentioning the amenities even if they're usual. You could even say "Offers the usual amenities for a hotel in its price point, including a, b, c, x, y and z." Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:27, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Another thing you might do, other than looking at Don't tout, which I'm guessing you already looked at, is to look at hotel descriptions in Star Articles. Copy and paste Category:Star articles into the "Search" window and go to the "Sleep" sections of the articles. It's true that touting can seep into even Star articles when patrollers aren't looking, but for the most part, whatever you see in a Star article is exemplary. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:39, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Drinks
"A café called Mali Prag (across from the Hotel Prag) is thought by some to offer the best "Serbian Coffee"." Just found this. Is it in accordance with the rules or not?

MeriadocTargaryen (talk) 12:44, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Sure. It would be touty if you wrote "Mali Prag serves the best coffee in Belgrade!" Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:53, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Map
Does anyone know how to edit the map that is currently in the "Get around" section? It really needs revision. Also, should it be moved to the "See" section, as it contains mostly landmarks listed in that section? Thanks. MeriadocTargaryen (talk) 16:09, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Have you taken a look at How_to_draw_static_maps? Although it must be mentioned that, since the dynamic maps were deployed, the static ones are somewhat being phased out in favor of the dynamic ones. Since Belgrad is about to start being districtified, a good up-to-date static map would be nice to have. Ibaman (talk) 13:26, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Creating district pages
Hello everyone. I would like to propose a way to try and organize and declutter the 'Belgrade' page a bit. As Belgrade is a very large city divided into 17 municipalities and many more neighborhoods, the question of how to divide the city arises. Now, as most tourists coming to Belgrade tend to stay and sightsee in the city center and don't really go into the suburbs, I propose to start with separate pages for the 'Stari Grad' (most historical sights and administrative center of the city), 'Vračar' (temple of St Sava and many cultural landmarks and locations), 'Savski Venac' (main transport hub, several important landmarks), 'Novi Beograd' (most populous municipality and a popular residential and business zone), and 'Zemun' (very popular with tourists as it has a historical core of its own) municipalities. The rest of Belgrade can be united in a page titled along the lines of 'Belgrade suburbs', where additional hotel/hostel/restaurant lists can be created. How does that sound? If anyone has any alternative ideas please share them here so we can try and make the 'Belgrade' page as good as possible. :) MeriadocTargaryen (talk) 12:47, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Your idea is good; your proposed scheme is good as well. I have never been to Belgrade and cannot help much. By all means plunge forward. Let's build an excellent article. Ibaman (talk) 13:26, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't know Belgrade, so I have just one question: Would Belgrade Suburbs be a geographically continuous area? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:20, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Nightlife Event Listing
Hello guys

I propose adding link to Night Nomads for listing (events in Belgrade). It's quite useful site to find out what's going on in the city, especially when you are travelling. As a matter of a fact, it could be added for other cities as it has possibility for listing nightlife events in many other cities. @Ibaman It doesn't violate (External_links#what_not_to_link_to) in any way as it is not guide but aggregator of nightlife events (although site does use term 'guide' in slogan).

 * Please read very carefully the first line of said policy: "Avoid linking to secondary sources - for example, avoid links to: Hotel or travel booking services or aggregators".

More from the very same policy: "We should avoid links to other travel guides, to ensure we have travel information in Wikivoyage, not linked from Wikivoyage."

Now, if you please, describe in precise terms why this aggregator site would not qualify under this policy. Ibaman (talk) 20:34, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Hello @Ibaman
 * Well this site is not an aggregator (this time I used term which is forbidden by policy) as it also has user submitted events - information found on website is not only collected from internet but also from users.
 * It provides information that could not be provided by Wikivoyage for example "Where can I go out to party tonight in Belgrade?" and in the same time it does not provide any information allready provided by Wikivoyage.

 * As a matter of fact, i'm not the owner of Wikivoyage; consensus must be reached about these matters. It would be great to hear others' opinions about this. Ibaman (talk) 19:01, 23 August 2017 (UTC)

The "Drink"section is a mess!
What happened here? It seems 50% of "drink"is a blank list of where to get coffee and not a single one of the cities famous clubs or bars are listed at all.

I did come cursory work and might find time for more later, but it really needs someone who really knows the city to sort it out as I've only been here two

I propose A. splitting off all the "new belgraed" and "zemun" neighborhoods to make it easier to navigate, as these are basically cities unto themselves now B. a stand-alone list of dedicated nighclubs, as they are spread often on the fringes of the city C. a massive cull of the cafe listings, surely not all can be worthy of a mention. This is surely the work of a tout or misguided tourism professional.

It's a big job, any help is appreciated

---Willthewanderer
 * began splitting up "drink" to separate cafes and bars/clubs and order it sensibly, I'm wondering if we have too many hostels listed as there are more than a hundred in the city and a "yellow pages" list isn't helpfull for travelers. At the same time I'm hearing rumours repeatedly across the city that corrupt local officials are changing laws with no notice and trying to muscle in on the hostel buisiness here, many of these hostels might not even exist any more

title: Talk:Belgrade


text:
Talk:Belguam (district)

VFD Discussion

 * Merge and redirect. It appears that there are two pages for the same district: Belgaum (district) and Belguam (district). I believe that Belgaum is correct spelling (?). --(WT-en) Bill in STL 01:17, 27 September 2010 (EDT)

Result: Merge tag added. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 21:35, 23 October 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Belguam (district)


text:
Talk:Belize

For future reference the Project:CIA World Factbook 2002 import can be found at Talk:Belize/CIA World Factbook 2002 import.

More to come
I'll be adding more information in the near future. Just got tired of seeing the default page. Most of the information I'm posting comes from a vacation my wife and I took to Belize a couple of years ago, so I'll be somewhat limited in providing information outside of the places we visited. Hopefully others will be able to join in soon. - David

rainy season
what is the rainy season like? does it rain constantly or does the rain come in bursts and the sun comes out?

Thanks, Scott

Belize
Anyone object to the deletion of this section and all its contents?
 * I delete it. It was added by anonymous IPs and doesn't fit the external links. -(WT-en) phma 19:27, 8 December 2006 (EST)

Hey the new season of real world is being filmed there!!!!

Useless info!
Hey the new season of real world/road rules battle is being filmed there!!!! I think *looks around in shame*

Outlets?
What electrical outlets does Belize use? Will I need to bring an adaptor? Thanks! 71.110.216.87 18:40, 4 May 2008 (EDT)

Weblinks
Took these external links off the main page since they're not consistent with our external links policy. Could be useful for data mining though if anyone wants to poke around. (WT-en) Shaund 15:24, 10 December 2008 (EST)

 * Fishing in Belize Information
 * Government of Belize
 * Guide to Belize
 * Tourist Information

Regions
We have five regions listed. Whoever put this scheme in place though did not change all of the article breadcrumb trails, so the hierachy is not completely functional. That can put right of course. What about regional assignation of the offshore islands? Should the northern islands all be part of Northern Belize? And Tobacco Caye and Placencia part of Stann Creek?--(WT-en) Burmesedays 23:41, 16 April 2010 (EDT)

 * Copied from User talk:(WT-en) Cacahuate:
 * I am guessing from the lovely Tobacco Caye article that you know Belize a bit. Please could you look over the map which I have just uploaded and let me know if I have got anything wrong, omitted anything important etc. On the region scheme, I have left it as is bar a few bits of tidying up. One issue though is the offshore islands, none of which have a regional assignation. On the map I have put Ambergris, Caye Caulker and all the other northern islands in Belize District, as that seems right from an access point of view. Tobacco Caye has gone into Stann Creek. Does that make sense? If so, I will assign the correct breadcrumbs. It was a fun map to put together. Cheers. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:55, 17 April 2010 (EDT)

 * Hey BD, that is a super gorgeous map, and as far as I can tell, spot on.... islands work in those cats.... nice work! – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 12:00, 19 April 2010 (EDT)

Breaking Bad
The country was mentioned (not favorably) on the TV show, and the tourist board's response is to invite the entire cast to visit. Belize Sees an Opportunity on Breaking Bad Pashley (talk) 14:49, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Replacement of image
Hi, everyone. This edit by User:Denis Barthel (named here in order to alert him to this discussion, in case he'd like to participate) changed the image of St. John's Cathedral that's shown in the article. I'll post the preexisting image and then the current image below. Which one do you like better?

Here's my take on it: The earlier image is 3,395 × 2,288 pixels, file size: 2.73 MB. It has striking shadows and a cheerful blue sky.

The current image is 5,760 × 3,840 pixels, file size: 2.97 MB, but it has a gray sky and the light makes the church look boring to me. So I would propose reverting this edit.

What do you think? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:11, 31 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree with you—I like the previous image better, though I don't feel strongly about it. —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:43, 24 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Reverted. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:54, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Hotel reservation entry requirement?
My wife and I arrived on May 11, 2019 at Goldson airport. We had just written "San Pedro" as our destination address in Belize, because we didn't have reservations and were planning to walk the beach to find something. The first guy we handed the form to asked "where in San Pedro?" We told him that, and we were herded into a tiny office and told we needed to make reservations before continuing. We were helped by a couple nice and helpful ladies, but it did take a while. There was one person in front of us. If a lot of people on a flight have that issue, I can imagine it taking an extremely long time (hours). I searched and could not find any documented note of this requirement. Anyone else? —The preceding comment was added by Yodermk (talk • contribs)

Currency, time and spelling conventions
Below is a proposed infobox to let readers know which formatting conventions to use in Wikivoyage articles. Do you agree with these proposals? If you have direct knowledge of what is most commonly used in the country, please let us know. Ground Zero (talk) 22:10, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Moved to the top of this page. Ground Zero (talk) 04:07, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Belize


text:
Talk:Belize City

Does anyone have approx taxi costs to / from Belize City and the municipal airport and the international airport? Assistance much appreciated!! --K

I have taken a lot of the info from the water taxi section. Much of it was irrelevant and copied directly from one of the company's websites.

title: Talk:Belize City


text:
Talk:Queenscliff

Moved from "Geelong and the Bellarine Peninsula" as separate article created for Geelong. (WT-en) Nurg 18:53, 13 Mar 2004 (EST)

title: Talk:Queenscliff


text:
Talk:Bellingham (Washington)

Updated air section to include the new Delta service to Bellingham.

Headings
I separated some of the content into subsections. Seemed to make sense, but they still don't fit the style guide, which seems restrictive. Feel free to come up with better titles.(WT-en) Rik 20:02, 11 February 2008 (EST)
 * Hi, (WT-en) Rik, welcome to Wikivoyage! I reverted to the headings to the version of 09:39, 2008 January 26 by User:203.144.143.4. The headings seem to me to be in line with the Project:Manual of Style in the Jan 26th version. The changes on Feb 11th took them further away, not closer, to the proper style.  I've had good luck working within the Project:Article templates. If you have a hard time figuring out how to work within them, consider consulting Project:Where you can stick it, or post the specific entry which is give problems, and see what suggestions you get. (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 17:48, 12 February 2008 (EST)

Understand
Added a few features, including a map to the visitor center (Mapquest, best I could get), fixed a glitch for the URL for the tourism office and added the Downtown Bellingham Association web site.

 * Thanks for these improvements! (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 14:13, 9 March 2006 (EST)

Added links, background information and an image (apologies on the placement...still learning). I realize some of my entries may be redundant so I will probably return to edit another time. Also, in the Do section I removed Baker's Breakfast Cookies Race as they have had to discontinue the event. (WT-en) Nwdude 14:40, 13 April 2006 (PST)

Copyvio
The following text appears to have been added from either or  and is thus not compatible with Project:Copyleft. In addition, the information (if it can be used here) should be added under "Understand" - see Project:Where you can stick it.

Whatcom Falls
Listen to the trickling waters or just "dive right into" Whatcom Falls. Whatcom Falls is a 60 foot drop into prestine water that flows from Lake Whatcom. Whatcom Falls is a neighborhood, park and stream of flowing water. Either way this area is filled with people enjoying the parks atmosphere. Whether it be a fisherman, free diver, jogger, in the neighborhood or swinging a tennis racket, Whatcom Falls has it all. Known as one of Bellingham's finest urban parks, Whatcom Falls creates an environment thats untouchable. The whirlpool, a place where water adventurers dive from a 60 foot cliff brings excitment to the fearless. This waterfall can be dangerous, therefore "JUMP AT YOUR OWN RISK."

Factoids

 * Bellingham is listed as one of the best college towns in the United States to retire in the book, "Choose A College Town for Retirement,"(1999)
 * BELLINGHAM: A BREATH OF FRESH AIR – COASTAL CITY RATES FIRST IN U.S. FOR AIR QUALITY

No trendy oxygen bars will be in demand in Bellingham, Washington anytime soon. For the third consecutive year, the city of Bellingham is recognized for having the least amount of ozone pollution in the country by the American Lung Association’s (ALA) State of the Air 2002 Report.

According to the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), ozone pollution is formed when pollutants emitted by cars, power plants and other sources react chemically in the presence of sunlight. Ozone is a powerful respiratory irritant and major contributor to health problems such as asthma, emphysema and chronic bronchitis. The ALA found that more than 142 million Americans live in areas where the air they breathe puts them at risk for these types of health problems.

Los Angeles, Washington D.C and New York consistently rate among the most ozone-polluted cities. Bellingham rates the lowest alongside other cities such as Fargo, Flagstaff and Honolulu.

 * Bellingham was picked by Fortune Magazine (Nov. 1996) as the "Best city to balance work and family life."
 * Numerous spots around Bellingham/Whatcom County have been listed as the "Best Places to Kiss in the N.W.," including Schnauzer Crossing Bed and Breakfast and Chuckanut Drive.
 * No fewer than four national magazines have singled Bellingham out as one of the country's best small towns to visit and live. Magazines and publications include "Reader's Digest," "Swing Magazine, " "Money (1990)," "Sunset" and "Rand McNally (1987)."
 * Mount Baker has been voted numerous times as one of the best places to snowboard, by such publications as Snow Country Magazine and Northwest Travel Magazine.
 * Nooksack River has been listed as one of the most challenging rivers to raft in Washington, attracting thousands of experienced rafters each year. (Bellingham Herald, July 15, 1996)
 * The Bellingham/Whatcom County area is among the 25 cleanest cities in terms of air pollution, according to data collected by the E.P.A. as reported by the American Lung Association (May 2000
 * With 14 public golf courses, Whatcom County has more golf courses per capita than any other county in the Pacific Northwest (Golf Digest). The region is frequently referred to as "Monterey North."
 * Bellingham leads the nation in the amount of green space available with 15 percent of the city's total land area utilized as a park or natural reserve.
 * Nooksack Falls Plant is the second oldest and smallest hydroelectric generating plant in Washington. It is run by just one operator.  (Lynden Tribune, May 1993)
 * Mt. Baker has the longest ski season in Washington State (Nov.-April).
 * Mount Baker set a world record in 1999 for having the most snow fall in one year with 1,140 inches. This tops the previous record of 1,122 inches set at Mount Rainier, the winter of 1971-72! (National Climatic Data Center, August 1999)
 * Bellingham was rated the second best "Paddling/ Ski Town" in the nation (out of 14 cities) by Paddler Magazine (November/December 2000)
 * Bellingham has been designated as a "Trail Town USA," by the American Hiking Society and the National Park Service. We are one of only 30 cities nationwide and the only city in Washington and Oregon, to be so honored.  We are a "city of greenways" with twenty-nine miles of pedestrian, bicycle and equestrian trails and more than 600 acres of open space.  (June 1, 1996)

title: Talk:Bellingham (Washington)