text:
Talk:San Francisco/Chinatown-North Beach

Guide Article
Ok, so I just changed the status of this article to "guide" as I feel it probably just meets the criteria. If anyone disagrees with this, please feel free to change it back. Thanks (WT-en) Asterix 14:36, 21 April 2008 (EDT)

Imagery
Hi, Id like to add some photos to this article but don't know how. I saw three images at wikicommons:

Am I ok to use these from a copyright point of view?? And is there a procedure somewhere that describes the process of adding the images to an article? Right now I don't know how to do it. Thanks (WT-en) Asterix 15:17, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

 * From a copyright point of view, you're allowed to use the first two images, but not the third. The third uses the GNU license (they always have that bull in the copyright tag) which from what I understand is incompatible with our license. For the first two you want to make sure to follow the terms of the license, which for Creative Commons Attribution ShareAlike 2.5 means that you're free to use it, as long as you attribute it and upload it under that same license.

 * As for actually adding the images to Wikivoyage, you have to upload all photos (not maps, but all photos) to Wikivoyage Shared. Go ahead and get an account there and follow the instructions on uploading files, then go to Project:How to add an image to find out how to actually add it to the Wikivoyage article. (WT-en) PerryPlanet 17:49, 16 July 2008 (EDT)

 * Thanks for that, I've uploaded the first two images now. As it was my first time, I'd appreciate it though if someone could check that I credited the work properly...don't want to upset some photog somewhere!  My account on WT Shared is here  Thanks (WT-en) Asterix 14:35, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

 * You did pretty good. A couple things you missed (which I added) was the copyright tag (you can add it when uploading files by selecting it from the pull-down menu) and you want to make sure you enter in the location (in this case, "San Francisco"), so that it'll come up on the list of San Francisco images on WT Shared. (WT-en) PerryPlanet 17:04, 17 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Merci beaucoup (WT-en) Asterix 17:37, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Map
Hi, sorry to bother agian, but there is one more thing I think this article needs, and thats to update the map. How exactly do I go about doing this one...anyone? Thanks (WT-en) Asterix 14:35, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

 * Basically, all maps are required to have the original SVG file used to make the map uploaded to WT and linked from the actual map image page. To update the map, you would download the SVG file to your hard rive, then use some image program (we prefer Inkscape) to update the map. This is where it all gets pretty complicated and where it's more help to point to Project:How to draw a map. However, if you like I can update it myself and have it done pretty quickly (like within a few hours), since I already have the original SVG file (after all, I made that map). :) (WT-en) PerryPlanet 17:08, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

 * Yes that would be great...thanks! As volunteers, I'm not exactly sure what the etiquette is when it comes to asking someone else to help with a specific task. I assumed you weren't interested in doing it after I did not get a response here, but perhaps you missed that. But if you want to do it...please, go for it! :)Thanks for the help  (WT-en) Asterix 17:35, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

 * Whoops, yeah, I did miss that. Sorry. Anywho, I am currently updating the map as we speak. (WT-en) PerryPlanet 18:06, 17 July 2008 (EDT)

Oyster fest
This sounds like the best thing in the world (festival devoted to Irish stouts & oysters?!), but what do you get for the $20 dollar ticket? Do you still have to pay for your oysters & beer once inside? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:43, 30 July 2008 (EDT)

San Francisco/Chinatown-North Beach
Ok, so here is a district article from SF that many contributors worked on including; User:(WT-en) Vkw, User:(WT-en) PerryPlanet, User:(WT-en) OliverBuchino, User:(WT-en) Wrh2, as well as some really great stuff form some anon IPs. Is it a star? (WT-en) Asterix 13:20, 18 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Support. It's a really well done guide. There are still a few listings in the Buy and Drink sections which are lacking hours, and we'll need those to make the article perfect, but that shouldn't be too hard to get. As far as I can tell, this guide has extensive listings (as it should, considering where we're talking about!), good descriptions, and a lot of great information. (WT-en) PerryPlanet 22:15, 19 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Am I seriously the only person who's commented on this? Surely someone else has something to say? At least a word of "Support"? (WT-en) PerryPlanet 20:05, 25 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Hey, we've got 14 days right? I haven't forgotten—just haven't had time to give it a good look yet ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:37, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

The default/most common order is alphabetical, and that's what I'd recommend. I'm pretty sure the only other acceptable order is geographical, like the sights in San Francisco/Fisherman's Wharf, although that is usually not possible. That's the only objection I have large enough to hold up star status. But yeah, the article is fantastic (and huge), and I've got a hunch this is where I'll head first next time I'm in San Francisco. Just reading this made me so hungry I had to drive over to Chicago's Chinatown for food before making my edits.
 * One objection — listings are not in order!

 * Actually, this was deliberate, and I spent a bit of time making sure the listings roughly ran from a south (chinatown) to north (north Beach) direction. I also listed the reason why in the article under "Get Around"...There are many more parks, public seating, and cafes with curbside tables in North Beach, so why not see Chinatown first. That way, by the time you'd made it through its bustling streets you'll be ready for a coffee and a sit down in North Beach.  So in actuality it's in geographical order.  Is this ok? (WT-en) Asterix 13:16, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

 * Ah, ok, so long as there is an order to it, I'll support. I do recommend adding a quick note in italics (probably at the top of the "see" section), explaining that the listings are in rough order from south to north. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Other less crucial things:

1) The article currently uses multiple formats to convey when a listing is closed for a specific day of the week (e.g., "closed on Mondays"). I'd recommend leaving such info out completely, since it should be obvious that any day not mentioned could then be assumed closed. (E.g., T-Th 5AM-10PM, F-Sa 5AM-midnight, Su 10AM-10PM.) But if you prefer to leave those references to closed days, that should be done in a standard fashion throughout the article.
 * OK, easy fix (WT-en) Asterix 13:16, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

2)Did Kerouac stay here? With his friend or in a flophouse? If so, it would be great to call out the building or at least the street where he was living. On that note, perhaps it would be worth doing to list at least one of the SRO flophouses under "sleep," since someone visiting after reading On the Road might be curious to spend a week in one.
 * As regards Kerouac - Not sure he stayed in an SRO in which case I wonder is it worth adding one? I know that he lived at 29 Russell st...but that's actually in Nob Hill area.  I did add the places where he drank (Trieste + Vesuvios) and hungout (Kerouac Alley + City Lights)..not sure where else stayed and specifically at an SRO??...I'll have to look this one up.  I thought I had one SRO in here but now I see it was in Civic Center.   Perhaps it is worth adding one as you say.(WT-en) Asterix 13:16, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Great, given how expensive San Francisco can be, I'd gladly slum it in a transient hotel for $160/week in a cool neighborhood. I've added it to the map. Also, a link to Kerouac's place in Nob Hill might be good for a "get out" section. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

3) The article's dashes are not standardized, using both hyphens surrounded by spaces and double hyphens to indicate breaks in thought. In my opinion, only mdashes (—) should ever be used for this purpose, whether you surround them with spaces ( — ) or not. If you'd like me to, I'm happy to quickly replace all the article's "breaks in thought" dash muddling with mdashes, and can do so in a jiffy—let me know. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:51, 30 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Please - knock yourself out. I'm happy to accept the help. To be honest it took so long writing this article that I missed some of the smaller things.  Thanks for the critique. (WT-en) Asterix 13:16, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
 * Done. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Photo
Swept in from the pub:

...copied from User talk:(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald

''Thanks for your help again at San Francisco/Chinatown-North Beach. I like the following photo a lot, and would like to add it (it's the musical barber under the "Do" section)..however, I read that photos of people were a no-no. Given that he's the real attraction here, would this rule apply here too in your opinion? Thanks (WT-en) Asterix 17:51, 1 August 2008 (EDT)''

Hi...I was hoping that someone could help me with the above? (WT-en) Asterix 15:33, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

 * Hey sorry about that! I tend to forget things when I don't respond right away... That's definitely a cool photo (and a cool listing), but I'm pretty sure that would run afoul of our Image policy policy, since he is identifiable & clearly the subject of the photo. Unless, that is, you got him to sign a model release. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:37, 4 August 2008 (EDT)

 * Thx Peter — I'll leave it for now; I might try and get that release later though if I have the time... (WT-en) Asterix 12:49, 5 August 2008 (EDT)

Split This Into 2 Neighborhoods!
I have to object to grouping these two neighborhoods together. It's even worse than the Mission-Bernal or the Noe-Castro groupings, which are already pretty bad. As the article says, these two neighborhoods could not be more different! Regardless of the supervisor district maps (I guess this is district 3?), this grouping would make no sense to a traveler (or a local). —The preceding comment was added by User:Moretravel (talk • contribs)

 * They are very different, certainly, but as a traveler I found it pretty easy to wander out of one and find myself in the other (mainly because of how the streets link up). There's even the Jack Kerouac Alley, the symbolic and literal connection between the two! That said, I'm not saying it couldn't be done, since both neighborhoods have enough content to stand on their own, but it would take a lot of work for what I personally see as relatively little benefit. PerryPlanet (talk) 15:28, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Was there a guiding principle for creating the neighborhoods? I think the test of whether you can walk between them is probably insufficient. There are no walls between the neighborhoods, so all of San Francisco would be in one district by that test! Moretravel (talk) 16:58, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

 * All I mean is that it's hard to clearly point out where one starts and the other ends. There's no prominent street separating the two, there's no hill, the architecture doesn't rapidly change (as an example of this, the boundary between North Beach and the Financial District is a pretty clear one, because if you're walking into the Financial District you're immediately surrounded by highrises), etc. PerryPlanet (talk) 17:35, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Not sure I agree the architecture doesn't change. And when you get to Chinatown, the signage is in Chinese! And everyone except the tourists is Asian. It's a pretty clear contrast, even superficially. Maybe I'll get around to splitting them up... Moretravel (talk) 17:40, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

 * If you really want to split it up, I have no objection to that, but just understand the level of work it will involve. You have to create the articles, carefully sift through the content to split it up, and - and this is where the bulk of the work will come in - change the maps. If you're up for that, go for it, but commit to it. A lot of love went into making this article. Maybe create a pair of draft articles, so you can complete the transition on your own time without affecting the content that is already up (until you're ready for the split to go into effect)? PerryPlanet (talk) 17:50, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

 * How do you create the maps? Moretravel (talk) 19:41, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

 * Details can be found here: How to draw a map. PerryPlanet (talk) 19:48, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Ejecting the Embarcadero
So I plunged forward and did something I've been meaning to do for a while, which is move the listings along the Embarcadero to Fisherman's Wharf. With the growing number of attractions there (particularly the recent arrival of the Exploratorium) it seemed like a better fit. They're pretty removed from North Beach given the presence of Telegraph Hill, and visitors to the Embarcadero are naturally more likely to be walking along the waterfront or taking the streetcar up to the Wharf than crossing over to the Chinatown/North Beach area. PerryPlanet (talk) 19:36, 30 March 2015 (UTC)


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Civic Center-Tenderloin

Strip Clubs?
Does anyone know whether listing strip clubs on Wikivoyage is ok??? I have no personal objection, but a lot of these places are very shady, and I would hate to think of someone getting ripped off there based on a listing they saw here. (WT-en) Asterix 20:31, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

 * Project:Sex tourism policy says "Strip clubs are acceptable". Obviously we should only list places that are noteworthy and less likely to rip off tourists. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:12, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

Length of Listings
Someone went to great trouble in the 'Drink' section and wrote like half a page on 'Aunt Charlie's Lounge'...I know nothing about this place, but the listing does seem excessive. I'd hate to ruin someones hard work but is it preferable to edit this down??? (WT-en) Asterix 20:31, 29 April 2008 (EDT)

 * Yes. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:12, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

 * Thanks (WT-en) Asterix 12:26, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

Guide Article
Ok, as per usual I have changed the status of this article and bumped it up to a 'Guide'. And, of course, feel free to change it back if you disagree. Thanks (WT-en) Asterix 18:08, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
 * It has a wealth of Guide-quality information. The only way it falls short of Guide status is that it doesn't have any images - I think it needs at least one to qualify. I won't bump it down, though, as I assume an image can easily be found. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 21:14, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Taken care of. Although I've never heard of pictures being required for guide articles. Star articles, sure, but not guides. (WT-en) PerryPlanet 02:06, 1 May 2008 (EDT)
 * I think you're right - I was mistaken. Anyway, this looks great! (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 15:01, 3 May 2008 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Filbert Steps

Merge & Redirect
This is not a sensible district, and should be merged... somewhere. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:11, 6 September 2007 (EDT)
 * I am in agreement there. (WT-en) Texugo 11:07, 6 September 2007 (EDT)

 * That's true for a number of the San Francisco districts - see Talk:San Francisco. I definitely vote +1 for merge & redirect - San Francisco/North Beach looks like a reasonable destination for this info. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 12:57, 6 September 2007 (EDT)

 * Apologies, I was not aware the "San Francisco/[something]" meant that [something] was a district. If you find a good place you want me to move this, I'm happy to make the necessary adjustments.  Just don't kill the bit about the parking meter.  Poor thing has no web presence, and a wiki is just the thing.  Maybe someone will be able to update it with a history or something. (WT-en) Acolombi 03:24, 7 September 2007 (EDT)

 * I've redirect to San Francisco/North Beach after copying the bits about the meter. It has a home on the web now. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 02:38, 10 September 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:San Francisco/Filbert Steps


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Fisherman's Wharf

Listings in "Get out"?
Having listings in Get out is silly -- the heading is not a part of the standard district template, and all that stuff should be under Get in. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:03, 13 April 2008 (EDT)

 * I don't think that this is the correct attitude for a supposed administrator to have. My understanding, is that it is part of your job to encourage new users - not "nuke" their bona fida contributions and label them as "silly".

 * Irrespective of this, almost all of the Star articles from the Chicago districts have a "Get Out" section.  Furthermore, there is an inherent inconsistency in deleting this section on the grounds that it is not included in the District Article Template, and then leaving others like "Understand" and "Get Around" intact - as they are also not included in the Template.

 * Sorry, no offense intended. Your contributions weren't "nuked", I merged them into "Get in", although I did delete some of the redundant bits.  My problem wasn't the existence of "Get out" in itself, but the content: it's supposed to give pointers to other interesting places to explore nearby, not nitty-gritty transport details (which belong in Get in). See eg. Chicago/Bronzeville for how it should be done. And yes, the meaning of the heading is very regularly misunderstood... (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:53, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

 * Hey don't sweat it, Jani's just dispensing with formalities—that's more a sign of respect for your (excellent) contributions than anything else.

 * Listings aren't necessary for the get out/get in sections (at least I can't think of any uses for listings in these sections right now). And what we did for the Chicago district get out sections is non-standard per template, but we agreed it made sense for Chicago, using it for a very specific purpose. Get out sections should not ever contain transport information, since that all goes into "Get in"—the Chicago get out sections serve as a navigational tool to direct readers to other city districts (or suburbs) that are relevant in the context of that article. That could be relevance by proximity, but usually that's less useful than relevance by theme. So if one district is most notable for, say, Polish restaurants and Polish museums, it is useful to link to another district with similar features, so that readers with that specific thematic interest can easily find all the relevant info in the city on that theme. (That theme should probably also be expounded on the overview page, with links to all appropriate district articles.)

 * I don't know if this type of get out info would be useful for San Francisco—perhaps less useful simply because there are fewer districts in total? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:31, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

 * Thanks for the explanation. Ok where to start on this...yes I am definitely confused about the whole 'Get In' and 'Get Out' sections.  Even after reading the template section I still find it a bit confusing.  I really like the idea of a standardized template, the many virtues of which are espoused on the Template section.  I also think it's really clever the way the templates have been constructed....using a sequential timeline combined with verbal headers that suggest action - "Do" "See" etc. I just cant't help thinking that it all falls down a little in the 'Get In' and 'Get Out' sections.  I know that someone was probably trying to achieve symmetry here, but in reality they are not really that symmetrical.  Also, I think that the useful timeline breaks down here too. I not exactly sure why....maybe it's because there is a lack of connectivity beween the naming convention used and spacial and temporal nature of the guide. 'Get In' and 'Get Out', in name, sound very utilitarian to me.  I think of Buses, Ferries, Planes and route timetables.   I don't think of daytrips and excursions to neighboring towns or national parks, or as Peter mentioned - a thematic or special interest tour into other areas.  Perhaps a new section before "Get Out" - something that suggests you're leaving the area you arrived in (base camp), but only to explore around a bit more, something that's more elastic than the very finite "Get Out".....perhaps "Stretch Out" "Pop Out" (like the English say!) "Branch Out" "Connect To" "Trip Out" ;) "Explore" or something like this. Anyway I'm just thinking out loud here, and probably because this section tripped me up a bit.

 * To answer Peter's question though - I think that the number of districts will not matter in the end, and that even if you were in a really small place with just 2 districts, you could still find a common theme between the two to connect them. In short, I favor standardization, I think that is what tourists are looking for (makes things easy to understand and intuitive), and if it's included or excluded in one big City, then other's should get the same treatment.

 * Just a couple of minor footnotes...as for there not supposed to being any specific transport info in 'Get Out'...I don't know guys, in the Chicago Star Articles, I saw some bus line numbers mentioned here and also some specific info on CTA lines as well.
 * Thanks (WT-en) Asterix 13:25, 16 April 2008 (EDT) :)

 * Rule = all transport info belongs in "Get in," per template. That said, we do sometimes give little snippets of immediately relevant transport info attached to more specific listings, like restaurants, bars, or shops, or in the case of Chicago/Loop, specific suggestions of "day trips" from that particular district to others. So we might suggest a specific bus to hop on to get to a far flung restaurant, or something like that, but all basic transport info for the district should nonetheless go in the "get in" section.

 * And before you invest too much time in trying to change the section headers (and note that I do agree, the "get out" header leaves much to be desired), check out the scary, unfruitful discussions that have already taken place on section header naming at Project:Article templates ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:40, 16 April 2008 (EDT)

"Usable" or "Guide" Article ??
Can someone reasonable (other than the "whispering desert winds guy???") give me an opinion on whether or not this article has enough content to justify it being labelled as a "guide" article.

It would be great if San Francisco could have one of these. If it's not ready yet - what else does it need, so that I can rectify? Thanks (WT-en) Asterix 14:12, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

 * Yep, it's definitely a guide-level article now. Great work! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:13, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

 * By the way, the article status criteria for districts is available here. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:30, 15 April 2008 (EDT)

 * Excellent...Yay!

Cruises and Ferries
Hi, I added a listing on Angel Island and one on Bay Cruises, but they got lost in translation with all the edits that were being made. A. Island is on the main SF page but not here on the Wharf page? Alcatraz is the same kind of deal and it survived with its own listing here on the Wharf page. Personally, I think that they both should have a seperate listing somewhere on this page. Anyone got any thoughts on this? Thanks (WT-en) Asterix 13:42, 18 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I think I was the one who deleted the Angel Island listing. My justification for it was simply that the listing had contact info for Blue & Gold Fleet cruises. I probably would have been okay with this, were it not for the fact that there's another ferry that also provides service to Angel Island from Fisherman's Wharf. It's probably perfectly fine to have an Angel Island listing, just as long as we list all the ferry carriers that provide service between there and the Wharf. (WT-en) PerryPlanet 14:04, 18 April 2008 (EDT)

 * No problem. I think though as things stand it probably needs a rewrite - perhaps a new sub-section heading (Bay Cruises and Ferries) with all of the various options, BayCruises, NightCruises, Lunch/Dinner Cruises, Alctz, Angel Isl, and East Bay ferry destinations.  Underneath, could be a sub-listing of companies providing the services (Hornblower etc).  Don't know if this would follow Mos though?  Also, its funny because I always thought that from FWharf only Blue and Gold went to Angel Is.  But I am not sure???   I thought that the the Alameda/Oakland guys just transferred to a Blue and Gold at Pier 41, but I may well be wrong about this.  Do you know for sure??  Thanks again (WT-en) Asterix 15:00, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
 * A sub-heading would work well, so I just put it in. Wondering if we should throw in the Alcatraz cruise too...Anyway, looking at the ferry schedules, it looks like Alameda/Oakland has a ferry to Angel Island, which stops in the Wharf, but not one back to the Wharf. And only on weekends. Still, given that Blue & Gold has only about one ferry a day in each direction, it's probably best to put down all the available options. (WT-en) PerryPlanet 22:43, 21 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Yes, I think definitely all ferry/cruise activity (listed above) should be included under this new heading. I am working on rewriting this a bit right now.  As regards the Angel Isl...I'm still unsure about this so I emailed them, hopefully they'll respond. :) (WT-en) Asterix 14:12, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
 * PS The pictures you added to SF articles look great..really spruce them up!!
 * Ok so I changed this now. Feel free to revert edit if you don't like, There are a lot of ways to approach this - not sure which one would fit the Mos better?? (WT-en) Asterix 16:16, 22 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Looks excellent to me. Just to let you know, I like the Alcatraz Cruise info where it is right now. Seeing as there's only one company offering cruises of Alcatraz, it only makes sense to keep their info under the Alcatraz Cruises, instead of listing them with the other cruise companies. (WT-en) PerryPlanet 00:26, 23 April 2008 (EDT)
 * agreed, Altz should be kept like this....Hornblower don't even advertise it on their website. It's really something that's driven by the National Park Service and not the private company providing the actual ferry service, and therefore it should be listed as such :)(WT-en) Asterix 13:11, 23 April 2008 (EDT)

New Photo
I just added a new photo to this article and just wanted to make sure it's ok. It's the cable car one..the workers are not identifiable imho and it is a public space...although saying that they are kind of the joint focus of the picture along with the cable car itself. I trust that this is still ok? (WT-en) Asterix 15:24, 25 August 2008 (EDT)
 * Seems perfectly fine to me. Since you can't see their faces it should be okay. (WT-en) PerryPlanet 18:59, 25 August 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:San Francisco/Fisherman's Wharf


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Golden Gate

Guide Article
Ok, we have been working a bit on this article, and although it definitely needs work - I think its a guide article now, so I am going to update its status. Fell free to change it back if you disagree. (WT-en) Asterix 15:43, 25 April 2008 (EDT)
 * I was just going to ask if you thought this was ready for an upgrade. I finally finished a map for this article. (WT-en) PerryPlanet 20:57, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

The Peter review
I'm stunned that there are hardly any errors for me to proof in this article! I also think this is our longest district article on the site (Chicago/Near North sheds a tear), but I agree with you that it doesn't look like it would make sense to further subdivide, from a neighborhoods, rather than a content organization, perspective. Anyway, fantastic work, and only a few bits of criticism/advice:

1) A section introduction for "See" is in order, and possibly for some of its subsections as well. There's so many sights there that it becomes overwhelming—I think a little prose is needed to call out the most interesting attractions. Perhaps you could organize the introduction by re-introducing the neighborhoods, with a particular view to their attractions?

2) A suggested itinerary would be really helpful for this district, since it's got so much content.

3) House of Magic needs hours

4) Crop out listings where possible. There's just so much in this article that it's easy to get bogged down in the listings. Where possible, I think it would be best to take out a few less interesting bars or restaurants, to allow the most interesting/highest quality recommendations to stand out a bit more. Subdividing further can work too—maybe separate the bars from clubs in "drink" rather than cut listings. I wouldn't crop the "see" section, though.

5) I auto-added a space after all ellipses, which is standard in American publishing. If you'd like me to do the same for other SF stars, let me know.

That's it! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:21, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

 * Thanks for the critique.

 * Now that you mentioned the weeping Near North article, I did a quick tally of listings. In the "Eat" section GG has only 2 more listings than NN, but in the "Sleep" section NN has actually 4 more listings than GG.  I think that the difference in length is that GG tends to have more fax no's, emails, and directions... making it look longer.  But, I like the extra info, and I am not fond of taking out some of these listings as that I believe would run afoul of the "complete" rule.  Instead, I strategically moved a picture or two, which I think will help relieve the monotony of the black and white... you're right about that, it is easy to get goggle-eyed after a while! In the "Drink" section though GG did have 13 more listings than NN... but that was primarily due to the cafes in the area.  Anyway, here I have separated clubs and wine bars from bars, so that should help. I've also added a picture too.

 * As regards the ellipses issue...I'll fix that..."edit-replace" right? I'll also add a section intro to the "See" section when I get a chance.  Given its size, I was trying to keep the article shorter, but I think a short intro won't hurt here.

 * I've never used an itinerary before, I'll have to look at that one a bit.

 * Thanks again... (WT-en) Asterix 16:04, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

 * Re: the ellipses—I'd recommend doing that in notepad, rather than word, since Word can sometimes throw in some formatting that doesn't square with wiki markup. The drink section looks a lot more manageable to me now. And the "complete" directive means, in my opinion, a complete set of real recommendations, rather than a complete guide to all places. But I'm sure the article already approaches the former rather than the latter. The picture sort really helps too—I didn't think of that. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:08, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

 * Yes, there is absolutely no bloat or padding in any of the articles I worked on. The only exception was when I added some motels to Twin Peaks-Lake Merced and Southeast San Francisco, because as per discussion here, they were lacking.  Now that I understand the complete definition a bit more I'll have offening listing removed poste-haste! (WT-en) Asterix 17:32, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

 * scratch that, it was just for Southeast San Francisco..they're removerd now. (WT-en) Asterix 18:03, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

Maps
Golden Gate Bridge Gift Center (Buy #7) is on the Presidio map but isn't properly listed on its map index, instead being listed on the index for the Golden Gate neighborhood map. (WT-en) Eco84 08:33, 18 May 2010 (EDT)

 * My bad - I'll get that fixed soon. Good catch! (WT-en) PerryPlanet Talk 13:47, 18 May 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:San Francisco/Golden Gate


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Haight-Ashbury

District needed in title?
Shouldn't this article just be called San Francisco/Haight-Ashbury ? -- (WT-en) DanielC 08:15, 9 March 2006 (EST)

 * Yes. (WT-en) Jpatokal 19:54, 9 March 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:San Francisco/Haight-Ashbury


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Haight-Fillmore

District needed in title?
Shouldn't this article just be called San Francisco/Haight-Fillmore ? -- (WT-en) DanielC 08:15, 9 March 2006 (EST)

Haight divided into two districts
Because they are two districts: historically, geographically, and by character. They both have a wealth of places to see, do, eat, and drink that can easily fill up two pages. Dividing each subsection into upper & lower as in the previous version is awkward as visitors will most likely focus on one half of the street or the other at a time. The new pages are:

San Francisco/Haight-Fillmore District

San Francisco/Haight-Ashbury District

 * First I would like to thank you for the work you are doing in the San Francisco Districts. Second, I think the point the DanielC was making above is both of the names have "District" on the end and he is questioning if that is needed. The shorter name would seem to be preferable. Again, thanks for the work on these articles. -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 08:54, 9 March 2006 (EST)

555 Haight
Someone added some negative commentary with reference to the Sleep entry for 555 Haight. Reviewing their reference, it appears that the establishment has no permit to operate, so I deleted it entirely. -- (WT-en) Colin 18:53, 10 August 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:San Francisco/Haight-Fillmore


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Hayes Valley

All the directions are off. You cannot go east from Hayes Valley to get to golden gate park. However, I don't follow all the sentences completely, so I'll let the author fix this.

title: Talk:San Francisco/Hayes Valley


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Ingleside

This should be moved under San Francisco. I don't know how to do that. Evan?

 * There's a link on the toolbar to the left called "move this page"; see how to rename a page for details. We put districts in so-called subpages of huge cities. So, I moved this page to San Francisco/Ingleside. --(WT-en) Evan 17:49, 14 Apr 2004 (EDT)

title: Talk:San Francisco/Ingleside


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Mission

Closed listings
Closed last year: (WT-en) Eco84 21:18, 24 August 2011 (EDT)
 * A taco bar with good food, excellent prices, and an interesting atmosphere. The menu has a slight upscale slant (a specific item may come off as healthy, yuppie, or hippie) compared to El Castillito or Cancun, but they're still delicious.

Why are these two neighborhoods (Mission and Bernal) grouped together?
As a local, I've never heard them grouped together.

 * Our district layout for SF was based in part on the official government districts for the board of supervisors (this one is based roughly on district 9, more specifically - it's not a perfect match, but it combines Mission and Bernal Heights). It was an easy go-to reference for breaking up the city when we were dealing with these less touristy, more residential areas. The advantage is pairing these two is that it gives Bernal Heights some prominence while lending material to the Mission article; Bernal simply doesn't have enough tourist amenities to stand alone as an article, and keeping it here seems like a better fate than throwing it in with the somewhat unsavory reputation of the Southeast neighborhoods. PerryPlanet (talk) 01:54, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 00:10, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * CAMP 2012.jpg

 * Not a thumbnail in the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:06, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:San Francisco/Mission


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Mission District

i feel flustered by this article. first it talks about the recent gentrification of the mission, then it goes on to speak about what fun stuff there is to see and do in the mission. gentrification is the root of much suffering for many working class people. is this article raising awareness about gentrification in a gesture of social justice, or is it promoting tourism/further gentrification? it seems to me like it is trying to do both, which i find to be offensive.

 * If you can find some way to bring the balance you'd like to see to this article then please go ahead. And do consider signing your posts.  You don't have to of course, but it makes it easier to have a discussion.  -- (WT-en) Mark 10:14, 15 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Well said, Mark. It's also worth noting a couple of things: first, that six different people contributed to this article, and that naturally a few different points of view are going to be expressed. Sometimes we do a good job integrating these, and sometimes we don't.

 * Second: Wikivoyage tries to keep a neutral point of view. It's a simple fact that the area was gentrified in the 80s and 90s; Wikivoyage is responsible for neither the advantages nor the disadvantages that that movement brought the Mission.

 * All we did is make a travel guide. We're gonna point out the interesting parts of the neighborhood; that's what travel guides are for. I can't see that ignoring the district's recent history, nor discouraging travellers from visiting this great section of San Francisco, as being in anybody's best interest. --(WT-en) Evan 20:46, 15 Jul 2005 (EDT)

title: Talk:San Francisco/Mission District


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Nob Hill-Russian Hill

Rudy Colombini And Spam
Can people please help me keep an eye out for spam from this guy. He has already been cited on Wikipedia as a 'persistent spammer'. See a discussion about him on Wikipedia here and   This article documents how he has reportedly been trying to pass himself off as a member of the band 'The Divine Comedy' (..and not the obscure Goth band he was in of the same name), advertising his hotels on an encyclopedic website, replacing links to desirable and notable hotels with those of his own etc etc...  All articles relating to him on Wikipedia have been deleted due to either his lack of notability as a musician, or as unwanted spam on an encyclopedic website.

There is also a lot of spam on Wikivoyage from the same IP address as was used on Wikipedia, 66.47.253.226 - this is almost certainly Rudy himself as this IP resolves to his offices at The Nob Hill Hotel, 835 Hyde Street, San Francisco. You can see a history of Wikivoyage edits from this IP address here network:IP-Network:66.47.253.224/27 network:Org-Name:Pacific Equities network:Street-Address:835 HYDE network:City:SAN FRANCISCO network:State:CA network:Postal-Code:94109-

HOTELS

Actually, he runs four hotels in total in the San Francisco - the first three of which were advertised on Wikivoyage, and all of which get horrible reviews (although saying that the James Court fares ok). He runs them through a company called Pacific Equities West LLC, see

 * Villa SOMA, 1554 Howard Street
 * Nob Hill Hotel, 835 Hyde Street
 * Fitzgerald Hotel Union Square, 620 Post Street
 * James Court Hotel (a.k.a. The Nob Hill Pension), 1353-1355 Bush Street

When you look at the reviews from guests on websites like Tripadvisor it becomes apparent that these hotels have a real problem as they get unusually poor reviews. Almost half of the reviewers give the Nob Hill and the Fitzgerald Hotel just 1 star out of 5. Almost all of those complained about the management trying to scam them in some way like through extra credit card charges. Some guests were charged $500 for allegedly smoking in their rooms, when the guests in question apparently don't even smoke. Others booked the Nob Hill only upon arrival to shipped off to the lesser rated Fitzgerald without rebate or explanation. Still others complained about being double charged on their credit card. There were also many reviews that complained about the Nob Hill, The Fitzgerald and Villa Soma having a bed-bug problem. One of the reviewers of Villa Soma points out that this hotel it is listed on the 'Bed-Bug-Blog', and having checked on the reference on the blog, reportedly this building has had an ongoing problem with bed bugs for years.

As you can see from the contributions history, he has been deleting references to his competitor hotels like the Inter-Continental Mark Hopkins Hotel, The Cartwright Hotel. The Crowne Plaza, Comfort Inn by the Bay, Holiday Inn Select Downtown etc  He has also added editorials suggesting that his hotels are among the "fanciest hotels" in San Francisco and comparable with establishments like the Ritz Carlton and The Huntington Hotel  - this is simply untrue. In an obvious attempt to make his hotels more visible, he has also been constantly editing an article to ensure that his hotels remain at the top of the list and then listing his hotels under multiple districts in San Francisco. At one point he had the Fitzgerald hotel listed under districts North Beach, Marina, Nob Hill, Civic Center and Union Square - the Nob Hill Hotel and Villa Soma were also listed under multiple districts.

For these reasons I have deleted references to both the Nob Hill and the Fitzgerald Hotels. The Villa Soma references had already been removed.

MUSICAL VENUES

He has also been advertising non-existent musical venues. He has been advertising his property at 1353-1355 Bush street as one of the following:

 * The San Francisco Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
 * Music City San Francisco
 * Rudy Colombini's Center for the Performing Arts

The Wikivoyage postings made it sound like these are three separate and distinct venues, when in fact they are all at the same address and none of them actually exist at all yet. 1353-1355 Bush Street is a hotel called the James Court Hotel, a.k.a. The Nob Hill Pension There are plans to set up a musical venue here but they are stalled, apparently due to objections. This is not going to come to fruition for at least 3-4 years, if at all. That's kind of deceiving for people who see one of these on Wikivoyage and then turn up only to find a hotel!

WEB BLOGS

He has also been advertising three online blogs that are supposed to cover the events and happenings in Union Square, Nob Hill and North Beach, but all they really do is advertise his hotels and interests front and center. I am all but certain that the anonymous author of these blogs is Rudy himself.

I have reverted most of his edits to date but please can you help me keep an eye out for future spam relating to the aforementioned Hotels, Venues and Blogs to ensure that they do not re-appear on Wikivoyage. Thanks. (WT-en) Asterix 17:08, 26 February 2008 (EST)

 * I have checked various web reviews sites for the hotels in question, and I endorse Asterix's view of them. -- (WT-en) Colin 18:19, 26 February 2008 (EST)

FRAUDULENT HOTEL REVIEWS One last quick point, I feel is really important. Just recently, I noticed a very suspicious pattern of reviewing for his hotels, across almost all the prominent Travel Websites that allow the public to post reviews. The suspicious reviews stretched all the way back to 2003. As an example, the most blatantly obvious of these were two reviews of the Nob Hill Hotel that were posted on 'Tripadvisor.com' - both reviews were posted within a week of each other, both had given the hotel a perfect '5 star' rating, and strangely, the Usernames supplied by the two supposed reviewers were identical to that of the manager of the James Court Hotel, and that of the Pacific Equities Finance Manager, both of whom work at Pacific Equities offices on 835 Hyde Street. Convinced of foul play, I contacted a total of six major websites online and reported Rudy Colombini, his management team led by Angelos Kolobotos, on suspicion of fraudulently posing as real guests and reviewing their own hotels in order to manipulate their ranking and popularity. Afterwards, for legal reasons I guess, these sites would not give me any real feedback other than to thank me for the information, and to say that they had conducted a thorough investigation of the matter, and that any appropriate action had been taken. However, post investigation, I analyzed all six websites and cumulatively for the Nob Hill and the Fitzgerald Hotel alone, they had removed Fifty-Eight '5 Star' reviews - this represented a whopping 30% of the total number of reviews for these two hotels on those sites!! On Tripadvisor, the most popular of these sites, both hotels instantly crashed in their rankings, with the Nob Hill almost rated as the worst hotel in San Francisco at 221/231, and the Fitzgerald 211/231. I will leave you to draw your own conclusions about all of this, but for all of the above reasons I don't think any of these hotels should be advertised on Wikivoyage. Furthermore, if anyone has a bit of spare time, it's also worth keeping an eye out for any other, even semi-positive reviews, of the aforementioned hotels. If you spot any suspicious ones, now and in the future - Report Them!! Thanks again, and apologies about the length of this. (WT-en) Asterix 13:20, 8 March 2008 (EST)

 * To Asterix: The content you are maintaining on this page is incorrect, outdated, and libelous and violates the Community Policies of WikiTravel. If you persist in posting this material to this page, Rudy will be forced to report you. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Purplestripedone (talk • contribs)

VFD discussion

 * Delete. This article is 4+ years out of date and does not include any relevant travel information. (There is a mention of a bad charge and bedbugs, but the links are broken so there is no evidence of these claims. Even so, this article is still 4 years old!) It appears to be a personal attack on the previous owner of 4 hotels. Three of those hotels were sold since this article was written, the 4th was refurbished and renamed. Attempts to update anything were reverted, and once again, this is a travel site and the article is about a PERSON. Completely irrelevant. -- (WT-en) Purplestripedone 16:32, 22 February 2012 (EST)

 * Speedy keep. Talk page discussions are only deleted in cases of vandalism, touting or hate speech; the referenced discussion is none of those.  See Project:Using talk pages. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 22:23, 22 February 2012 (EST)

 * Archive. Talk page dscussions should be kept more-or-less forever as part of the wiki record. On the other hand, this is a personal attack and apparently outdated, there's no need to keep it visible. (WT-en) Pashley 00:40, 23 February 2012 (EST)

 * Speedy keep and Archive. Let me just point out that by "Speedy keep" I mean the talk page itself shouldn't be deleted - that's just silly. As for the content of the page, I agree with Pashley that it should be archived as it seems to be outdated at this point. That said, I don't see this as an unwarranted personal attack - Asterix deleted these hotel listings from Wikivoyage and, being a new user who had not yet gained trust, gave a justification for doing so. Granted, Asterix may have...let's say, gone beyond the call of duty in this case, but at its most basic this (offering justification for deleting listings) is what we want new users to do. While the information itself is outdated and we don't need it so visible now, I don't think we should point to this as an example of bad behavior. EDIT: Given the information that D. Guillaime posted below, I change my mind about this information being obsolete. (WT-en) PerryPlanet Talk 12:57, 23 February 2012 (EST)

 * PerryPlanet, doesn't the VFD box need to stay on the page for 14 days? Why was it deleted? Also,I still fail to see how any of the info on this talk page relates to the goals of the Wiki site. It's about a person, not a place. 71.229.101.13 13:48, 23 February 2012 (EST)
 * I do apologize for removing the VFD box on sight; I thought someone had made a mistake in posting it there. However, talk pages are not to be deleted. You can question whether the content in the talk page is appropriate, but the talk page itself needs to remain as a place where users can discuss the article. (WT-en) PerryPlanet Talk 15:58, 23 February 2012 (EST)

 * Speedy keep, as per talk page policy. I wouldn't consider it outdated, either; there have been ongoing attempts to overwrite it over the intervening years, both with advertising from the above anonymous IP just a few days ago, or simply trying to replace it entirely with a URL to one of the Colombini (planned?) properties .  It appears to remain a relevant caution for article maintenance.  — (WT-en) D. Guillaime 15:24, 23 February 2012 (EST)

Speedy kept. There is no deletion rationale provided here, and our policy is clear on when discussions should or should not be deleted. This seems a borderline abuse of the vfd process, and doesn't need two weeks. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:24, 25 February 2012 (EST)


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Potreo Hill

This title is incorrect but common mispelling of San Francisco/Potrero Hill. -- (WT-en) Huttite 04:16, 30 Dec 2005 (EST)

title: Talk:San Francisco/Potreo Hill


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Sunset

Wikipedia link
I just wanted to point out that I changed the link to Wikipedia under "External links" to work like our Project:links to Wikipedia. I don't want people to think that they shouldn't link to Wikipedia here! The link is still on the page -- just up close to the "Printable version" link, instead of in extlinks. --(WT-en) Evan 14:50, 6 Jan 2004 (EST)
 * I see that the link to Wikipedia's Sunset District (San Francisco) page is now in the Other Sites section of the left sidebar and there is no External Links section. The link is at the bottom of the wiki markup. Nice. --(WT-en) Rogerhc 20:58, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

Permits for Bonfires
These are only required for gatherings of a certain size I believe. Bonfires during Prom nights spread out all across the beach and look like candles so I doubt all of them would have permits.128.120.58.177 17:42, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:San Francisco/Sunset


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Tenderloin

We're still trying to figure out how to handle really big cities like San Francisco (see Project:Large city article template for details). One option is dividing the cities into districts, making sub-articles for each district, and listing the important travel stuff for that district, in the same way we would do for a small city. I think this just might work -- Shannon's done a great job on San Francisco/Tenderloin. -- (WT-en) Evan 08:11, 18 Oct 2003 (PDT)

Thanks for leaving Original Joe's for me to do, Shan! -- (WT-en) Evan 18:29, 27 Oct 2003 (PST)

The "hazard pay" name origin sounds really, really fishy. I always figured that the name "Tenderloin" came from the state of prostitutes' crotches after a busy night. -- (WT-en) Evan 19:43, 27 Oct 2003 (PST)

"Hazard Pay" is total BS - I rewrote this whole section. --65.192.41.10 22:32, 20 November 2006 (EST)

You know, if we can get like 6 more articles like this for San Francisco districts, we'll have a pretty good travel booklet for The City. -- (WT-en) Evan 17:49, 31 Oct 2003 (PST)

Anything North of Geary is not in the Tenderloin. According to the city, its police districts and the people that live around there (like myself), the Tenderloin stops at Geary. Nob Hill is the designation by the city. However, they have begun to call it NoMa (North of Market). Locals call it one of many names, depanding on the actual location...: Tenderloin Heights (just a joke), Lower Nob Hill (mostly realtors), Polk Gulch (if near Polk), the Theater District (if near Powell), Union Square (if near Powell), Downtown (generically) and most popularly and commonly, the TenderNob. If you include it in another, already existing article, put it in Nob Hill. If not, create a new one.

title: Talk:San Francisco/Tenderloin


text:
Talk:San Francisco/The Avenues

As a long-time resident of San Francisco, I can honestly say that "The Avenues" is not a district found anywhere in the city. Rather, it is a nickname used for the Sunset District, the Richmond District, and Golden Gate Park. Therefore, I am changing the wording to reflect this. —The preceding comment was added by 71.202.113.132 (talk • contribs) 16:37, May 4, 2008 (EDT)
 * Is what's being proposed a move to San Francisco/Sunset and Richmond Districts? -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 03:09, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

-

Is there no way to get rid of the dangling commas at the beginning of the sub-bullets for Gordo's?? Moretravel (talk) 23:34, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:San Francisco/The Avenues


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Twin Peaks-Lake Merced

Hotel listings
I removed this listing:

 * Not the Ritz but a cheap budget hotel option

I know it's called the Twin Peaks Hotel, but doing a search on Google Maps reveals its location to be in Castro-Noe Valley, not Twin Peaks-Lake Merced. (WT-en) Eco84 20:00, 27 August 2008 (EDT)

 * Correct — thanks. (WT-en) Asterix 13:36, 28 August 2008 (EDT)


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Union Square-Financial District

Rudy Colombini And Spam
Can people please help me keep an eye out for spam from this guy. He has already been cited on Wikipedia as a 'persistent spammer'. See a discussion about him on Wikipedia here and   This article documents how he has reportedly been trying to pass himself off as a member of the band 'The Divine Comedy' (..and not the obscure Goth band he was in of the same name), advertising his hotels on an encyclopedic website, replacing links to desirable and notable hotels with those of his own etc etc...  All articles relating to him on Wikipedia have been deleted due to either his lack of notability as a musician, or as unwanted spam on an encyclopedic website.

There is also a lot of spam on Wikivoyage from the same IP address as was used on Wikipedia, 66.47.253.226 - this is almost certainly Rudy himself as this IP resolves to his offices at The Nob Hill Hotel, 835 Hyde Street, San Francisco. You can see a history of Wikivoyage edits from this IP address here network:IP-Network:66.47.253.224/27 network:Org-Name:Pacific Equities network:Street-Address:835 HYDE network:City:SAN FRANCISCO network:State:CA network:Postal-Code:94109-

HOTELS

Actually, he runs four hotels in total in the San Francisco - the first three of which were advertised on Wikivoyage, and all of which get horrible reviews (although saying that the James Court fares ok). He runs them through a company called Pacific Equities West LLC, see

 * Villa SOMA, 1554 Howard Street
 * Nob Hill Hotel, 835 Hyde Street
 * Fitzgerald Hotel Union Square, 620 Post Street
 * James Court Hotel (a.k.a. The Nob Hill Pension), 1353-1355 Bush Street

When you look at the reviews from guests on websites like Tripadvisor it becomes apparent that these hotels have a real problem as they get unusually poor reviews. Almost half of the reviewers give the Nob Hill and the Fitzgerald Hotel just 1 star out of 5. Almost all of those complained about the management trying to scam them in some way like through extra credit card charges. Some guests were charged $500 for allegedly smoking in their rooms, when the guests in question apparently don't even smoke. Others booked the Nob Hill only upon arrival to shipped off to the lesser rated Fitzgerald without rebate or explanation. Still others complained about being double charged on their credit card. There were also many reviews that complained about the Nob Hill, The Fitzgerald and Villa Soma having a bed-bug problem. One of the reviewers of Villa Soma points out that this hotel it is listed on the 'Bed-Bug-Blog', and having checked on the reference on the blog, reportedly this building has had an ongoing problem with bed bugs for years.

As you can see from the contributions history, he has been deleting references to his competitor hotels like the Inter-Continental Mark Hopkins Hotel, The Cartwright Hotel. The Crowne Plaza, Comfort Inn by the Bay, Holiday Inn Select Downtown etc  He has also added editorials suggesting that his hotels are among the "fanciest hotels" in San Francisco and comparable with establishments like the Ritz Carlton and The Huntington Hotel  - this is simply untrue. In an obvious attempt to make his hotels more visible, he has also been constantly editing an article to ensure that his hotels remain at the top of the list and then listing his hotels under multiple districts in San Francisco. At one point he had the Fitzgerald hotel listed under districts North Beach, Marina, Nob Hill, Civic Center and Union Square - the Nob Hill Hotel and Villa Soma were also listed under multiple districts.

For these reasons I have deleted references to both the Nob Hill and the Fitzgerald Hotels. The Villa Soma references had already been removed.

MUSICAL VENUES

He has also been advertising non-existent musical venues. He has been advertising his property at 1353-1355 Bush street as one of the following:

 * The San Francisco Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
 * Music City San Francisco
 * Rudy Colombini's Center for the Performing Arts

The Wikivoyage postings made it sound like these are three separate and distinct venues, when in fact they are all at the same address and none of them actually exist at all yet. 1353-1355 Bush Street is a hotel called the James Court Hotel, a.k.a. The Nob Hill Pension There are plans to set up a musical venue here but they are stalled, apparently due to objections. This is not going to come to fruition for at least 3-4 years, if at all. That's kind of deceiving for people who see one of these on Wikivoyage and then turn up only to find a hotel!

WEB BLOGS

He has also been advertising three online blogs that are supposed to cover the events and happenings in Union Square, Nob Hill and North Beach, but all they really do is advertise his hotels and interests front and center. I am all but certain that the anonymous author of these blogs is Rudy himself.

I have reverted most of his edits to date but please can you help me keep an eye out for future spam relating to the aforementioned Hotels, Venues and Blogs to ensure that they do not re-appear on Wikivoyage. Thanks. (WT-en) Asterix 17:08, 26 February 2008 (EST)

 * I have checked various web reviews sites for the hotels in question, and I endorse Asterix's view of them. -- (WT-en) Colin 18:19, 26 February 2008 (EST)

FRAUDULENT HOTEL REVIEWS One last quick point, I feel is really important. Just recently, I noticed a very suspicious pattern of reviewing for his hotels, across almost all the prominent Travel Websites that allow the public to post reviews. The suspicious reviews stretched all the way back to 2003. As an example, the most blatantly obvious of these were two reviews of the Nob Hill Hotel that were posted on 'Tripadvisor.com' - both reviews were posted within a week of each other, both had given the hotel a perfect '5 star' rating, and strangely, the Usernames supplied by the two supposed reviewers were identical to that of the manager of the James Court Hotel, and that of the Pacific Equities Finance Manager, both of whom work at Pacific Equities offices on 835 Hyde Street. Convinced of foul play, I contacted a total of six major websites online and reported Rudy Colombini, his management team led by Angelos Kolobotos, on suspicion of fraudulently posing as real guests and reviewing their own hotels in order to manipulate their ranking and popularity. Afterwards, for legal reasons I guess, these sites would not give me any real feedback other than to thank me for the information, and to say that they had conducted a thorough investigation of the matter, and that any appropriate action had been taken. However, post investigation, I analyzed all six websites and cumulatively for the Nob Hill and the Fitzgerald Hotel alone, they had removed Fifty-Eight '5 Star' reviews - this represented a whopping 30% of the total number of reviews for these two hotels on those sites!! On Tripadvisor, the most popular of these sites, both hotels instantly crashed in their rankings, with the Nob Hill almost rated as the worst hotel in San Francisco at 221/231, and the Fitzgerald 211/231. I will leave you to draw your own conclusions about all of this, but for all of the above reasons I don't think any of these hotels should be advertised on Wikivoyage. Furthermore, if anyone has a bit of spare time, it's also worth keeping an eye out for any other, even semi-positive reviews, of the aforementioned hotels. If you spot any suspicious ones, now and in the future - Report Them!! Thanks again, and apologies about the length of this. (WT-en) Asterix 13:20, 8 March 2008 (EST)

Reworking the Union Square/Tenderloin boundary
This came to my attention thanks to someone trying to add the Hilton Hotel to this article, which is hardly the first time. Under our current district breakdown, we've drawn a hard boundary along Mason Street, relegating the Hilton along with a few other adjacent hotels to the Tenderloin article. Now this is a boundary we've enforced, but naturally anyone from the Hilton isn't going to be happy about having their hotel listed as being in the Tenderloin. So we go through this again and again, a slow motion edit war that under the current circumstances will likely be carried out in perpetuity.

With this in mind, I'm wondering if we can tweak this boundary a little bit. What I'd like to propose, working off of this map, is to push Union Square's coverage a block west (to Taylor) north of Ellis. This will encompass the Hilton, a couple of other splurge hotels currently in the Tenderloin article, and a couple of nice theaters. South of Ellis between Taylor and Mason will remain in the Tenderloin, mainly because that's where you find the EXIT Theater, which is undeniably Tenderloin.

I'm not saying this is a perfect solution — I'm sure there will still be a couple of others hotels listed in the Tenderloin that will want to get in the Union Square article — but I think it'll be better than what we have now. Thoughts? PerryPlanet (talk) 00:22, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

 * Actually, I'm gonna just plunge forward and go for it. It's a pretty minor shift, but I'll have this here to explain my reasoning. PerryPlanet (talk) 02:12, 7 February 2013 (UTC)


text:
Talk:San Francisco/Western Addition

Eh, do we really want to list hardware stores? Is this soemthing a traveller would need - and which must be recommended so much that a look into the phone book would not suffice? -- (WT-en) Nils 19:42, 17 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Yes, this is no ordinary hardware store
Because it carries items like Japanese utensils, it would be of interest to tourists and visitors. —The preceding comment was added by 66.122.51.130 (talk • contribs) on 21:50, 18 May 2005

I second this, Soko is much more than a hardware store and deserves a visit by travelers, they have many interesting traditional Japanese products, like a traditional version of IchiBanKan. 208.80.69.11 20:46, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

 * Please plunge forward and change the listing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:14, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Japanese groceries
I'd like to see something on the Japanese grocery stores in the area—of particular interest is where sashimi can be purchased for sushi-making at home. 75.0.6.163 23:56, 2 April 2009 (EDT)

Thread Lounge
I don't recall ever seeing thread lounge in Hayes Valley. Their website seems to say they're in Mission. Would someone else please confirm this and remove the listing? 208.80.69.11 20:48, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

 * Again, please plunge forward, but in this case, it would be better to move the listing to San Francisco/Mission District, if there isn't a listing for them there, already. And when you do (re)move it, please type something like "moving to San Francisco/Mission District" or "already listed in San Francisco/Mission District" in your edit summary.

 * One thing to understand about wikis is that everyone is a volunteer here, so unless your proposed edits are likely to be controversial, you should just do them instead of hoping someone else will do them for you. Thanks a lot, and I look forward to your contributions! Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:19, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Alternative banner for this article?
I created a new alternative banner for this article (I initially created it first and foremost so that it would be used at the top of the parallel article in the Hebrew edition of Wikivoyage, yet I later decided to also suggest that the English Wikivoyage community would consider using it here as well). So, which banner do you prefer having at the top of this article? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 12:47, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * These look like they're derived from the same picture. I have no strong feelings about one being superior to the other. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:44, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * The current one has a cleaner look, I slightly prefer that. Danapit (talk) 18:08, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I dunno, I actually prefer the proposed banner—and I say that as the guy who made the current banner. This new one is framed better and I get the feeling that the page title and ToC will be much clearer against this new image. PerryPlanet (talk) 21:59, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Current Syced (talk) 07:44, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:San Francisco/Western Addition


text:
Talk:San Gil

The people from Laika hostel like to continually delete the information on Macondo Hostel. If you see that it is missing please for the benefit of people looking for an accurate and helpful information click on history and select undo.

I changed the directions for the Villanueve-Jordan part of the hike that was written up here, after following the original instructions and heading north-east out of the town which is completely the opposite direction! Think the author might have had their compass upside down. Otherwise it's a great hike although I only did this one section.

title: Talk:San Gil


text:
Talk:San Gimignano

Sleep
The "Sleep" section currently looks promotional and doesn't include any sleeps actually in San Gimignano. I've never slept in San Gimignano, but the sleeps that should lead off the list here should be within the city walls, because the whole point of sleeping in San Gimignano is being there at night, when there is a more relaxed ambiance after the day-trippers are gone. Michael 01:36, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

"Understand" section
I'm putting this here to note that it's inadequate. Something about the history of this fortress city is needed. I believe it was an Etruscan city, and of course a Medieval one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:04, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Banner
Can we replace the current banner:

With this one:

Ground Zero (talk) 10:55, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

 * I prefer the existing banner. It's a much higher-quality picture in that the buildings have more definition and the sky is blue, rather than an annoying grayish. It would be disappointing if the day you visited San Gimignano, the weather was like that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:30, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The problem I have with the existing banner is that it really doesn't convey the idea of the towers. You have to know what you are looking at already to get the picture. But I haven't been able to find a better image. Ground Zero (talk) 13:50, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Totally understood. Are there any pictures of specific scenes within the city, facades of buildings or art which could be turned into pagebanners? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:45, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Option C:

Option D:

Ground Zero (talk) 22:00, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

 * Great! Option C has a nice composition, but it's a little fuzzy. I'd support switch to Option D, which is also a good composition, IMO. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:04, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Seeing no further comments, I'll apply D. Thanks. Ground Zero (talk) 13:03, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
 * This is superweird. I applied option D — File:Italy-0996 (5198642354) (cropped).jpg — but what appears is the cityscape I proposed at the beginning — File:Wv San Gimignano banner2.jpg. I can't figure out why that is happening. Ground Zero (talk) 13:07, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't get it, either. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:16, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
 * It may have to do with the file names. I have requested that File:Italy-0996 (5198642354) (cropped).jpg be renamed File:Wv San Gimignano banner3.jpg. That might do it. Ground Zero (talk) 13:40, 20 February 2021 (UTC)
 * The filename was changed, I've updated the banner to File:Wv San Gimignano banner3.jpg, but it is still showing File:Wv San Gimignano banner2.jpg. I'll check back within a day or two to see if it changes. Ground Zero (talk) 14:39, 22 February 2021 (UTC)

Solved it. In the Wikidata page (desktop version), there is an entry for Wikivoyage banner, which seems to override anything we put directly on the page. This applies the banner across various language versions of Wikivoyage, but it raises issues, I think, in that (a) I doubt many Wikivoyagers are aware of this, and (b) it is not clear where discussion would take place about changing a banner. (This change was applied across all Wikivoyages except Italian and Hebrew, which still have banner 2, and German, which does not have a banner.) Ground Zero (talk) 14:59, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's not good at all. We can't have Wikidata overriding the choices of individual Wikivoyages. What should we do about that, start a thread in the equivalent of the pub in Wikidata? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:38, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I guess we should. I don't really feel like opening that can of worms, though. Just laziness on my part. Ground Zero (talk) 14:18, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Thread here. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:45, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, this solves the problem. Basically, the pagebanner template is a little finicky and doesn't want us to include "File:" at the beginning of the filename. —Granger (talk · contribs) 20:46, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
 * If that's all it is, it was a small error to start a thread on Wikidata. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:55, 23 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Granger. That seems to work. At some point, I will add this information to Banner Expedition so that others don't make this mistake. Ground Zero (talk) 20:58, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:San Gimignano


text:
Talk:Sangkhla Buri

TAT Listings
Moved TAT Listings to Talk:Sangkhlaburi/Listings for future reference. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 23:23, 2 February 2010 (EST)

Laundry service
OK, this is a stupid thing for an edit war, but is "a" necessary in any form of native-speaker English before the term "laundry service," as in "Has a laundry service." (not a complete sentence, anyway) vs. "Has laundry service."? If so, in which form of native-speaker English is "a" required? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:20, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
 * "a laundry service" is grammatically correct and is common usage:, &  —The preceding comment was added by 171.99.185.183 (talk • contribs)

 * That doesn't answer my question. I repeat: What native-speaker version of English requires the use of "a" for "laundry service"? "This hotel has laundry service" is perfectly correct in American English, and several others, I believe. In what form of English is it absolutely incorrect? Thai English or some native-speaker version? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:31, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

 * "a laundry service" is common usage in Thailand: —The preceding comment was added by 171.99.185.183 (talk • contribs)

 * Since this usage is seemingly acceptable in some form of native-speaker English and also commonly used in Thailand, I now support your edit. Thanks for explaining. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:55, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sangkhla Buri


text:
Talk:Sangkhlaburi/Listings

TAT Listings
Some TAT listings that clutter the main page. You can place some back if you have visited them, but be sure to include your own personal traveler experience.

Amphoe Sangkhla Buri
Sangkhla Buri is a district bounded by Myanmar, approximately 215 km. from the city of Kanchanaburi. By travelling along Highway 323, passing mountains near Vajiralongkorn Dam, an attractive reservoir with beautiful scenery. Furthermore, Amphoe Sangkhla Buri is situated in the place where three rivers: Huai Song Ka Lia, Huai Bi Khli and Huai Ran Ti, join and lead to the Khwae Noi River. That’s why we call the point “Sam Prasop” (the confluence of three rivers). In addition, Mons have settled in this district so visitors can learn about the typical Mon ancient culture and traditions here. Namtok Dai Chong Thong (น้ำตกไดช่องถ่อง) This waterfall is located in Khao Laem National Park on Highway 323 (Thong Pha Phum-Sangkhla Buri) between Km. 32-33. Before arriving at Namtok Kroeng Krawia, you will see a sign leading to Namtok Dai Chong Thong on your left. Go ahead about 500 metres then turn right and go straight on for about 500 metres. After that, travel on foot for about 600 metres before reaching the medium-sized waterfall flowing to the Mae Klong Dam with fertile green forest which looks very attractive, especially in the rainy season.

Namtok Kroeng Krawia (น้ำตกเกริงกระเวีย) 	The waterfall is located in Khao Laem National Park on Highway 323 (Thong Pha Phum-Sangkhla Buri) between Km. 32-33, a little further from Namtok Dai Chong Thong. Approximately 191 km. from Amphoe Mueang, this small waterfall is the point where water cascades down from different directions, and it is a beautiful place to rest and relax on the way to Amphoe Sangkhla Buri. Khao Laem National Park (อุทยานแห่งชาติเขาแหลม) About 190 km. from Kanchanaburi on Highway 323 (Thong Pha Phum-Sangkhla Buri), the national park is situated at Km. 40, about 30 km. to Amphoe Sangkhla Buri. With an area of 815 sq. km. covering Amphoe Thong Pha Phum and Amphoe Sangkhla Buri including forest, Khwae Noi River and Vajiralongkorn Dam (or Khao Laem Dam), it is a peaceful pleasant park with Huai Kateng Cheng flowing through it. Tourists can camp and start the journey there to learn about nature along the waterfall. Namtok Kateng Cheng (น้ำตกกะเต็งเจ็ง) This medium-sized waterfall has 23 levels, and each level has its own different unique form. The distance from the first level to the highest one is about 2 km.; therefore, it is suitable for visual studies of various kinds of forests; banana forest, bamboo forest, evergreen forest and mixed deciduous forest. Moreover, especially at the sixteenth level a large beautiful tree exists and another huge one requires at least 13 adults holding hands to encircle.

To experience this waterfall, tourists have to go on foot from the national park office taking about 2-3 hours. After about 2 km., they will get to the first level of the waterfall. Climbing up to the higher levels, they will find a sight-seeing point at the top of the waterfall where they can see Khao Laem Dam at a bird’s eye view. After that, visitors can choose to return by foot and take a jungle trek through the fertile virgin forest instead of the one they depart from. During the journey, they will pass fascinating fern forest, Rakam (zalacca) forest, lichi and Mafai forest. Furthermore, it is pleasant to hear the echoing sound of water falling over the rocks all the time. However, the rainy season is not a good time to visit this waterfall. Tourists should ask for official guides of the park office. Accommodation service and camping is available. Admission is Bt400 for adults and Bt200 for children. For further information, please contact the National Park, Wildlife and Plant Conservation Department, Bangkhen, at Tel. 0 2562 0760 or at the website ‘http://www.dnp.go.th’.

Mon Bridge (สะพานมอญ) Located in Amphoe Sangkhla Buri, it is also called “Saphan Uttamanuson.” This is the longest wooden bridge in Thailand with the length of 850 metres crossing Huai Song Ka Lia where people in Amphoe Sangkhla Buri and Mon Village travel back and forth. This place is another great sight-seeing point of Vajiralongkorn Dam where many creeks; Song Ka Lia, Bi Khli and Ran Ti, meet together leading to “Sam Prasop’.

Wat Wang Wiwekaram (วัดวังก์วิเวการาม) About 6 km. from Amphoe Sangkhla Buri, this temple is the residence of Luangpho Uttama, a respected monk of Thais and Mons including Karens and Burmese living in the area. On the riverside, an elegant marble Buddha image named “Luangpho Khao” is situated in the Wihan (Buddhist assembly hall). Besides, 1 km. from the temple, the Buddha Gaya Chedi with a square-formed base is situated containing relics of Lord Buddha’s right thumb. Near the pagoda, there are lots of shops selling products from Myanmar such as clothing, cosmetics, Burmese talcum powder and wooden furniture at low prices.

Every year, in February, there is a festival to celebrate Luangpho Uttama’s birthday. Activities include religious rituals, Muai Khat Chueak boxing, performances from the Cultural Folk Club such as Mon classical dance, Karen’s Ram Tong, etc. In the festival, people will get dressed in Thai-Raman typical costumes and prepare sets of food offerings to carry on their heads and give to the monks. Tham Kaeo Sawan Bandan (ถ้ำแก้วสวรรค์บันดาล) It is a complex of caves located in Tham Kaeo Sawan Bandan Meditation Centre near a small mountain. Each cave has a specific name based on their characteristics; such as Tham Badan with knee-leveled water, Tham Phopu Ruesi, Tham Kaeo Morakot, Tham Keao Sawan Bandan, and Tham Kaeo with stalactites and stalagmites that glitter like a powder of diamond when light shines on them. Please dress neatly with comfortable shoes. Be careful when visiting some caves which have a sloping stone mound; also in some caves you have to kneel down and crawl through the stone holes. It takes at least 6 hours to visit all caves.

To get there, take the route Sangkhla Buri-Three Pagodas Pass and turn right at Km. 16 near the roadside shelter. Drive along the dirt road for about 800 metres then turn right. Go on for 200 metres until you arrive at the meditation centre where the cave is situated. Tourists can ask for more information about the cave from the monks who reside in the meditation centre area.

Three Pagodas Pass (ด่านเจดีย์สามองค์) The end of the Thai border in the west is located in Tambon Nong Lu on Highway 323, about 4 km. before getting to Amphoe Sangkhla Buri. Turn into the intersection on your right and continue for 18 km. to get to the Three Pagodas Pass. All routes are asphalted.

In the past, the Three Pagodas Pass was called “Hin Sam Kong” (three piles of rocks) respected by Thais who always passed through the border. Later, in 1929 Phra Si Suwannakiri, Sangkhla Buri Governor at that time, led villagers to build three small-sized pagodas. In addition, the Three Pagodas Pass was also one of the crucial military routes of Siam and Burma.

At present, lots of shops selling products from Myanmar are placed around the border where tourists can pass through to the Phaya Tong Su Market in Myanmar, a border market full of Burmese products. The pass opens 8.00 a.m. - 6.00 p.m.

Sangkhla Buri Jungle Trek This service is offered to tourists by hotels in Amphoe Sangkhla Buri. The programme starts with rowing boats along Huai Song Ka Lia, riding elephants and rafting. Please contact tour agencies in Kanchanaburi in advance or get more information at the Tourism Authority of Thailand, Central Region Office, Region 1, or call Tel. 0 3462 3691 and 0 3451 2500.

--(WT-en) globe-trotter 12:37, 2 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Sangkhlaburi/Listings


text:
Talk:Sangla

Comments
This whole page is directly copied from the Banjara Camps website and does not give any new information to a traveler. It comes across as a blatant advertisement. The Author has not even bothered to remove the reference like in the 'See' section it says that a particular village is 'just across the camp'. This page should be re-written and re-structured.

 * yes the sleep listing is copyvio from here and should be deleted. The rest of the article is a bit questionable from that pov as well I think... let me have a closer look. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 12:35, 6 November 2009 (EST)

 * chunks of the rest are a copy vio from: http://www.ashextourism.com/hotelsresorts/Himachal/Sanglacamp.htm, copyright terms here --(WT-en) Burmesedays 12:39, 6 November 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Sangla


text:
Talk:San Ignacio

So, this town exists in name in both Belize and Baja Mexico. Which town does this represent?

 * It looks like we need a Project:Disambiguation page! I'll create them and turn this into a disambiguation page. They'll then be San Ignacio (Belize) and San Ignacio (Baja). (WT-en) Maj 17:22, 17 January 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:San Ignacio


text:
Talk:San Ignacio (Belize)

It's slightly confusing about some of the prices: USD or BZD? Could those who wrote the bits originally add a clarification? Maybe all prices should be in BZD (or all in USD)? —The preceding comment was added by 65.31.139.44 (talk • contribs) at 18:59, 21 November 2007

 * Does anyone have information about the buses that run from Guatemala to SI? That might be helpful in the "Get In" section.

 * The list of lodgings skews toward the expensive, touristic places; maybe somebody could add something about Martha's or the other, cheaper places in town. —The preceding comment was added by 65.31.139.44 (talk • contribs) at 13:34, 27 December 2007

 * I have heard rumours that Amore Mio is closed permanently ... Anyone have up-to-date information about this? —The preceding comment was added by 190.242.35.143 (talk • contribs) at 17:50, 17 April 2011

title: Talk:San Ignacio (Belize)


text:
Talk:San José (Costa Rica)

It is misleading to have San Jose and Tamarindo as the 2 links in Costa Rica. It should be San Jose (as it is the capital) and OUTSIDE SAN JOSE. Tamarindo is just a town in an area like Jaco or Tortuguero etc. Therefore it needs to be in regions - northwest, caribbean etc. I spend a lot of time in the area south of Limon - Puerto Viejo de Talamanca and Cocles, and there's lots to be said about there and the rest of Costa Rica.

On the other hand, you can get lucky and go into the official Tourist Board version. But that's not the point is it, from what I read in NY Times.

Sleep listings "near the airport"
While San José does indeed have two airports in the general thereabouts (SJO and SYQ) only the latter is actually in San José and that one does not see international flights. Hence I am moving the listings that were under the heading "near the airport" onto this talk page. If they're not already there, they should most likely be listed in our Alajuela article. This is yet again a reason for geo coordinates. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:13, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Near the airport

 * Hampton Inn. US$105/night avg (from Travelocity) Right in front of the airport, adjacent to Fiesta Casino and a Dennys restaurant.
 * Hampton Inn. US$105/night avg (from Travelocity) Right in front of the airport, adjacent to Fiesta Casino and a Dennys restaurant.

The "by train section"
Could do with some updating from the website of the national railway. Should we add fares and departure times/frequencies? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:17, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Touting in San Jose (Costa Rica)
Unfortunately the sleep section of our guide on San Jose is filled to the brim with Touting and even includes some accommodations nowhere near San Jose. If you could help clean house and geotag the listings, I'd be grateful. Hobbitschuster (talk) 05:04, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
 * No takers? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:54, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I did look, but to be honest didn't see any touting, apart from the stuff you'd already taken out. I see lively writing, across many different listings, which is surely the opposite of touting.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:50, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Are you serious? There are literally listings nowhere in or near San José... And there are listings which claim geographic impossibilities like "short walk from downtown and the international airport" (the latter is in Alajuela). Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:23, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I have done a little bit of tidying these up - deleting a couple of listings which had dead links, moving a couple to a nearby city and deleting a place with a negative review. However these would all be done much easier for somebody that knows the place to do - it took me some time to place an hotel on the map then decide it was not in San Jose, but somebody who has been there might know just by reading the address. Most of the listing are not touting. AlasdairW (talk) 00:45, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Hobbitschuster, touting doesn't really have anything to do with the location. A listing can be both (a) nowhere in or near San José and still (b) fully comply with the policy against touting.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:47, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Read all sleep listings again and then tell me what you would describe as "location touting" and whether any of those listings fits the bill... Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:34, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Listings nowhere near San José
Similar to what we had to deal with with Alajuela, there are a bunch of listings here, that are nowhere near San José. They should be moved and all listings where such is possible should be geocoded... Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:15, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:08, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Billboard zoo Simón Bolívar Costa Rica.jpg

Gran Hotel
Grand_old_hotels lists the "Gran Hotel Costa Rica" in San Jose, but I do not see a listing here. Could someone please add a listing then link to it from Grand old hotels? Pashley (talk) 03:56, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:San José (Costa Rica)


text:
Talk:San Jose

Botched disambig for San Jose
I created San Jose (disambiguation) because I though such a page hadn't existed. Turns out it did under San Jose now I can neither move it to where it belongs, nor raise the issue on the talk page, as that redirects to San Jose (California)'s talk page. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:45, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Hobbitschuster - I commented out the redirect - should be able to move now? Please verify San Jose (disambiguation) -- Matroc (talk) 02:28, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

 * When you get redirected, there should be a link to the redirect page at the top of the page, before the content. Why was there none on the talk page? I was able to get there and comment out the redirect by using the URL https://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:San_Jose&redirect=no (that URL should have been in the non-existing link, cf other redirected pages). --LPfi (talk) 05:46, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

 * When a redirect has been edited, it cannot be deleted by non-administrators, and thus nothing can be moved by ordinary users to replace the redirect. Also otherwise only the target of the redirect can be moved there, so administrator intervention is needed when a move involves more than moving back and forth among alternative names. --LPfi (talk) 05:51, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

 * I'm a kind of lost here, I'm not sure what you're trying to do. Do you want to delete "San Jose (disambiguation)"? If so, I don't think that's necessary. "San Jose" is a disambiguation page, so just redirect "San Jose (disambiguation)" there.

 * Or do you want to move "San Jose" to "San Jose (disambiguation)"? In that case: have an admin delete "San Jose (disambiguation)", and then move "San Jose" to "San Jose (disambiguation)". Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 06:00, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * It is no problem to have "San Jose" as the page with a list of destinations, but probably a good idea to have a redirect to it from San Jose (disambiguation). The disambig option in the page banner will then work. --Traveler100 (talk) 06:11, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

 * When "X" is a disambiguation page, it's probably best to always have "X (disambiguation)" redirect there. That way, people don't need to guess or check if there's a "(disambiguation)" in the title before linking there, and people won't think that not a disambiguation page when there really is. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 07:13, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

 * I think the disambiguation should always be under x(disambiguation). Hobbitschuster (talk) 09:20, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
 * That may be what you think but recommend discussing first, there are a few thousand pages like this. Also cutting pasting over a redirect all contant of another page is not the way to go. Page should be moved so that edit history is preserved. This may be a good idea but should have some agreement and be done correctly. --Traveler100 (talk) 16:15, 17 August 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:San Jose


text:
Talk:San Jose (California)

San Jose is not, actually, the oldest city in the Silicon Valley. Mission Santa Clara antedates San Jose by several years. --(WT-en) Evan 09:58, 4 Feb 2004 (EST)

 * Actually, it's only a few months, as the mission and the pueblo were both established in 1777. However, the mission and town of Santa Clara are different entities, and the town of San Jose was established before the town of Santa Clara, which was established when the missions were secularized in the 1830s. 71.132.8.161 19:34, 16 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Events calendar
I crunched down the month-by-month events calendar to a set of attraction listings, which is usually the way we do it. --(WT-en) Evan 01:54, 8 Jul 2004 (EDT)
 * looks better (WT-en) Goodralph 01:59, 8 Jul 2004 (EDT)
 * Fine by me. (WT-en) Chip 02:13, 8 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Do you know the way to San Jose?
As a native San Josean, I would like to add a hardy amen to the following part of the article:

People who ask, "Do you know the way to San Jose?" (in reference to the 1968 hit song recorded by Dionne Warwick) will be glared at.

Mission Ale House
The Mission Ale House has been closed since October of 2009. See: http://bit.ly/vNKtbn (WT-en) Weems 17:26, 16 November 2011 (EST)

 * Go ahead and remove it - just make sure you note that it's closed in the edit summary box so that anyone reviewing the article knows why it was removed. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 17:29, 16 November 2011 (EST)

Do you know the way to San Jose? Remove..
I propose we remove the line "People who ask, "Do you know the way to San José?" (in reference to the 1968 hit song recorded by Dionne Warwick) will be glared at." since it doesn't add anything to that section and I believe it refers to an older edit. —The preceding comment was added by 50.152.206.223 (talk • contribs)
 * I think that was meant as an attempt at humor, so if it can be re-worked to actually make the joke clearer that would be good (I'm skeptical, given that most people won't know the song), otherwise go ahead and remove it. -- Ryan • (talk) • 05:33, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

In-N-Out Burger?
San Jose has hundreds of notable and unique restaurants, not all of which can be listed here. I propose making room for more by removing our 4 instances of In-N-Out Burger, a chain with several hundred locations in six states. Peter Chastain (talk) 07:22, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Please do so. In-N-Out has some passionate fans who have added it to many articles, but per WV:Listings it is generally sufficient to mention what chains are available and/or popular in a sentence at the start of the section without going into detail about specific locations of every restaurant. -- Ryan • (talk) • 07:30, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Although I always search out and visit unique restaurants when I visit an area I have to admit I always when arriving in California head out at least once for an In-N-Out Burger. I think they should be treated differently from global chains like McDonalds and Burger Kong. --Traveler100 (talk) 07:33, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The point of the "Boring places" guidance is that chains are alike. Adding a line of prose that says that San Jose has four In-N-Out locations should be fine, but it's unnecessary to give contact information and a description of each one, particularly for a city that has hundreds of non-chain restaurants. -- Ryan • (talk) •
 * San Jose is known as a place to get great Vietnamese food. That's much more unique than its having 4 branches of a statewide chain. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:22, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, there was one In-N-Out heading with a long description and 3 (not 4) sub-listings. I collapsed that into a single mention of the 3 locations. Anyone can get directions by clicking the corporate web link or phone number. Peter Chastain (talk) 10:40, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I just added the address and directions for the location closest to a freeway. I don't really see In-N-Out as a destination, but people might want to stop there on their way to somewhere else. Peter Chastain (talk) 11:45, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Not a destination if you have lived some time in California, but a destination for visitors from other countries.--Traveler100 (talk) 11:57, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * While we are on the topic of fast food in San Jose. Would you consider an entry for Senor Jalapeno?--Traveler100 (talk) 12:00, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I've not eaten there. You convinced me that In-N-Out is un-boring enough to warrant inclusion. Can you make me want to go to Senor Jalapeno? Peter Chastain (talk) 10:00, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Well it is very popular at lunch time with office workers in the area. A step up from a Chipotle but not as authentic a feel as some of the taquerias (but then Athena Grill has an entry in Sandta Clara, and although good I would not say authentic Greek). You would not go there for a dinner engagement but if you are looking for something fast and good value for the money while working or on the move it is a reasonable option. --Traveler100 (talk) 10:52, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I just noticed the Senor Jalapeno website says they are in Sunnyvale. Perhaps you could raise the issue (or just add it) there.Peter Chastain (talk) 01:47, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Restaurant list organization
We currently list 12 American-style restaurants, nearly twice the number suggested by our 7+2 policy, and now I would like to add one more, Harry's Hoffbrau, which has great relatively inexpensive food (IMO) but, more to the point, hosts the Peninsula Banjo Band's rehearsal/singalong every Wednesday night, which is a fun event that visitors might want to try. Our total number of restaurants is large, but not excessively so for a city of a million people. Should we try to split the list of American restaurants somehow? (In the case of Harry's it might be more accurate to call the food international, but the emphasis on turkey puts it firmly into the American camp.) Should we divide all the restaurants geographically? (That could be problematic, since we are already dividing them by kind of food.) Or do we just get hard-nosed and say we're maxed out? Peter Chastain (talk) 02:09, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The 7+/-2 guideline is just a rule of thumb to determine when splitting things up might make sense. I don't see any issue with adding more restaurants given the size of the city - I think it's better to have a lot of good listings than to leave out good restaurants. As to using a different categorization for splitting up the list, if you change the categorization from cuisine to a geographic breakdown then you can further sub-divide by the standard price ranges (Budget, Mid-range, Splurge), which might be a better organizational structure. -- Ryan • (talk) • 02:14, 30 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Agree with Ryan, by geographic breakdown then price range may be a good idea. Could do with adding coordinates to the listings too, I for one find the list difficult as I do not know the city well enough to go by street names. --Traveler100 (talk) 07:09, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Organize by districts?
As Ryan and Traveler100 have suggested in, above, the San Jose article could benefit by some geographic organization. Some neighborhoods, e.g., Japantown almost deserve their own article (except for the lack of hotels), while others, like Alviso, are worth spending at least an afternoon exploring. The once-separate identity of the former Italian-American enclave Willow Glen can still be seen in its shopping district, and the Vietnamese neighborhood, the name of which nobody can agree on, has some great little restaurants and small businesses. On the other hand, a lot of areas (south SJ, for one) are basically bedroom communities that can be described in a short paragraph. So, I think splitting San Jose into separate articles would be problematic, but I would like our readers to be able to consider neighborhoods individually, rather than as parts of an amorphous big city. I think a good start might be a neighborhood list and city map near the top: in the lede, or perhaps the Understand section? And then maybe divide at least the Eat section into those neighborhoods. And perhaps the Do section could include some bullets: Explore Alviso, Explore Japantown, etc., each of those being a paragraph listing some places to see. I feel is if I am trying to figure out something that has already been invented. Can someone point to an article where this has been done well? Peter Chastain (talk) 13:15, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Districtify?
What do others think of districtifying this article? Selfie City (talk) 03:44, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

 * Why? Seems fine without districts. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:43, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

 * Yes, but there are a lot of listings, and these will probably only increase with time. Selfie City (talk) 00:13, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

 * IMO, there are not too many listings yet. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:04, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

 * I think you're right. As a rough estimate, how many bytes are there usually in an article before it is districtified? Around 200,000? Selfie City (talk) 15:18, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

 * Don't know if there are any rules about this. In my opinion, when the number of listings in one section starts approaching 40-50 or there are more than 30 listings in several sections, I think it is appropriate to divide a city into districts. --ϒpsilon (talk) 15:42, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

 * That's sensible. Then let's wait a while and see if the article grows. Selfie City (talk) 15:44, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

BART expansion
As of June 13th, Milpitas and North San Jose are now connected to BART, and I plan to add an edit to the public transit section to reflect this. L. Challenger (talk) 13:54, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

 * I didn't take a look at this talk page before editing, so I didn't see your comment before making an edit! However, I've changed some parts of the article to include BART's expansion and VTA's route adjustments, so I would appreciate it if you could take a look and make any necessary changes or additions.
 * On another note, while not related to BART, I would like to mention here (on the talk page) that I made a new Flixbus entry for Downtown SJ and left the existing entry for Flixbus's service to East SJ... even though Flixbus stopped serving ESJ as a result of COVID-19 & took it off their website. I wasn't sure if I should have removed it or not, as I don't know if it's a temporary or permanent schedule change. GhostTurtle (talk) 02:42, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:San Jose (California)