text:
Talk:Barbados

Administrative divisions
The article poses the question Administrative divisions (Are these regions?). I'd say not; with an area of 400-odd square kilometers and 200,000 odd inhabitants, there doesn't seem to be much need to divide the island into regions. So I've rephrased the Regions and Cities to reflect this. -- (WT-en) Chris j wood 14:09, 19 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * I think this article needs an overhaul to bring it in line with Project:How to de-factbook a country page. We shouldn't be trying to work the often not traveller-centric CIA stats into the templates, they just don't flow... that said, Barbados does have "regions" that are used both by locals and travel guides with common issues that can be addressed on region pages. I'll try and take a stab at it... (WT-en) Majnoona 14:26, 19 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * Barbados is divided into Parishes. For that whole history you'd have to look up the history of the Church of England in Barbados or the Parliament which the Church of England was a part of.  See: http://www.anglican.bb/hist -&- http://www.barbadosparliament.com/history.php 151.203.49.183 16:28, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

This is CaribDigita. Suggest you see Wikipedia
I've already written a great deal about Barbados. Although "WikiTravel" and "Wikipedia" are two different content licenses it may give some on here an idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbados

 * By adding Barbados to the page, I have provided a link in the sidebar. There is no need to add the URL to the page. The talk page is also linked in the same way. WikiPedia:Talk:Barbados -- (WT-en) Huttite 03:24, 19 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Cities?
I'm not sure if it makes sense to have separate city pages. For example, almost the entire stretch from Bridgetown to Speightstown via Holetown is full of resort hotels, restaurants and the like. From the perspective of a traveler living in Holetown, all these restaurants (including The Cliff, Daphne's, Sassafras on one side and Fish Pot on the other) are in the same area. Seems odd to have to list some restaurants in individual cities while others in the country page. In a sense, Bridgetown is just one of the attractions in Barbados rather than a separate city entry.--(WT-en) Wandering 14:42, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
 * If there are city articles, all of the restaurant listings should be in them, not in the country article. The country article's Eat section should (in most cases) just talk about the local cuisine.  Whether or not it's worth dividing the island into city articles is a separate question.  In terms of geographic size, its possible that a single article could cover the whole island, but since I've never been there, I really can't offer an opinion on that. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 14:59, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
 * I guess what I'm asking is what should we do with restaurants that are not in any city? In Barbados itself, restaurants tend to get listed by parish which corresponds (somewhat) to the wikivoyage notion of district. Many of the top restaurants are not in any city - though they are by necessity in this village or that but we can't really have pages for each and every village. Perhaps, in this case, it makes sense to list restaurants in either place (city and country) depending on whether the restaurant is in an identifiable city. Alternatively, one could drop city pages in the case of Barbados and have country pages and parish (district) pages. Barbados, by the way, is 167 sq miles in area to, say, New York City's 303 sq miles (wikipedia).--(WT-en) Wandering 15:44, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
 * The idea behind Wikivoyage's geographic hierarchy is that the "bottom" level is an article about the place where you get a hotel and spend your days/nights. If an island is small enough that you might have breakfast on the north side, spend the afternoon sightseeing on the east side, have dinner on the south side, and go back to your hotel on the west side, it makes the most sense to treat it a single destination.  If it's larger than that (and Barbados probably is, even if it's only half the size of NYC), and the cities aren't a good way of dividing it, maybe a simple geographic division would make more sense.  For example, maybe regions such as West Barbados, South Barbados, Northeast Barbados, and Central Barbados (or local names for these areas if there are any).  Or the parishes might work, if that's a more useful way for a traveler to make sense of the territory.  In that case I'd suggest giving the region article names like "Saint John Parish" to avoid conflicts with all the other "Saint John"s out there. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 17:14, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
 * If no one objects, I'll divide Barbados into parishes and delete the individual town pages. (Should I be looking for objections elsewhere as well.) The reasons are that sights, hotels, and restaurants are strung out all over the island, more often than not they are not associated with any of the major towns. Also Bajans think in Parishes rather than towns (their phone directory is divided into parishes).--(WT-en) Wandering 20:32, 15 June 2007 (EDT)

Well, I started working on the Parish pages but now think that eleven pages, one per parish, is a bit excessive. Perhaps it would be better to divide Barbados into five or six districts: Western Barbados, Southern Barbados, Bridgetown, Eastern Barbados, Central Barbados, and perhaps a separate Northern Barbados. Needs some mulling over, this.--(WT-en) Wandering 15:40, 10 July 2007 (EDT) Divided into five districts. I included St. Lucy in Western Barbados because I figured there is not much point in making a Northern Barbados page. I clubbed St. James and St. Peter into Western Bbd because most visitors probably view them as seamless. And, I put St. Phillip into Eastern Bbd (though SE would be technically better) because visitors tend to think of Crane on the Eastern or 'other' side of the island.--(WT-en) Wandering 11:52, 16 July 2007 (EDT)

List of hotels
I am from India and I am looking for a list of 3,4 or 5 star hotels in barbados and their contact nos and websites. could anyone please list it here. Thanks. (WT-en) Anonymous

Districts/regions
Reading above, I can see how and why it happened, but a three level structure for an island about 25 miles long x 10 miles wide is a bit odd. In effect we have five regions/districts and then four city articles sitting below those. The region articles are not normal Wikiravel regions as they were specifically set up (see reasons above) to contain listings. I do not think these should use a region template for that reason. Any ideas on how we can better deal with this? For example, Barbados -> Western Barbados -> Holetown seems a bit excessive for such a tiny island. If it went Barbados -> Holetown, how to handle Western Barbados, when Holetown is clearly a part of that area? --(WT-en) Burmesedays 01:04, 20 May 2010 (EDT)

 * Why not just remove the regions? (WT-en) LtPowers 08:11, 20 May 2010 (EDT)

 * Reading above, I think the logic for creating them to start with was that lots of valid listings are not in towns or cities. The regions were really created to take care of those I think. This is a problem with small islands. Where to put that great restaurant or hotel that is in the middle of nowhere?--(WT-en) Burmesedays 13:14, 20 May 2010 (EDT)

 * It's actually a problem throughout the world, even in the United States. I know of several rural attractions that don't belong to any real article-worthy destination.  Knowing that doesn't help us here, though.  It sounds like the cities kinda blend into each other; would it work to make the regions the lowest-level articles?  Maybe by dividing them up more?  (WT-en) LtPowers 15:29, 20 May 2010 (EDT)

 * I have now drawn the map but the regions issue remains tricky and unsolved. I cannot see the point of regions except as repository for listings that do not fit into one of the city articles. This is a tricky one. Frankly, given the size of the island, all the content could be in one country article!--(WT-en) Burmesedays 01:45, 26 July 2011 (EDT)

 * To address LtPowers point, I think we should treat this problem with rural regions the same way we resolved it for outer huge city districts—amalgamate the tiny rural towns and the surrounding countryside into an article. That's really what any other guidebook would do. I was pondering this same issue at Talk:Montgomery_County_(Maryland).

 * Back to Barbados, though. Both the "Western Barbados" and "Southern Barbados" are basically written about individual parishes, which is too fine grained. With my above point in mind, I'd suggest the following, bottom level articles, with numbers corresponding to the parish map at WP:

 * 1) Southern Barbados: Hastings → Crane Beach (1,10)
 * 2) Bridgetown: Everything in St Michael Parish
 * 3) Western Barbados: Paynes Bay → St Lucy Parish (4,9,7) (Merge content from Holetown & Speightstown)
 * 4) Central-Eastern Barbados: 2,3,5,6,11   --(WT-en) Peter Talk 10:23, 26 July 2011 (EDT)

 * Peter, you mean Barbados → four bottom level articles? I can see that working.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:06, 26 July 2011 (EDT)

 * Exactly. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 11:40, 26 July 2011 (EDT)

 * I also like Peter's approach. It looks like a good solution and it's similar to the way I've been thinking of handling some rural regions I've encountered. - (WT-en) Shaund 11:43, 26 July 2011 (EDT)

 * Thanks Peter and Shaun. I will try to finish the map and region plan on that basis. Regional issues in these tiny islands are so much more complex than in a huge country. Wait until you get you teeth into Maluku Peter.... I am bamboozled at the moment:). --(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:49, 26 July 2011 (EDT)

 * They're not more complex; it's just that we haven't gotten down to that level in most large countries yet. We will eventually; I'm already butting up against it in New York (state) as I drill down to the county level.  (WT-en) LtPowers 13:23, 26 July 2011 (EDT)

 * Hmmmmm. Not sure I agree with that. Let's see. Islands and island groups have certainly caused me the most mental strain. The issues are often non-standard.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 05:42, 1 August 2011 (EDT)

I have followed this discussion and am happy to see that I have reached similar solutions for some Denmark and China articles with the same issues. One question though: would it not be better to move the four articles to Cities and Other destinations, as they are not region articles?, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 07:30, 1 August 2011 (EDT)

Seven years later: just to reflect that IMO the four-region division of Barbados seems natural, traveller-oriented and fit for purpose. The meta-blurb recommends looking at the German version: I beg to suggest it's the other way round, as de:Barbados subdivides into umpteen itsy bitsy villages; other languages haven't taken that approach. The one aspect in English that still needs a bit of think is the sub-pages on scuba-diving, which are ill-structured and suffer from Wikipeditis. Grahamsands (talk) 21:55, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

Currency, time and spelling conventions
Below is a proposed infobox to let readers know which formatting conventions to use in Wikivoyage articles. Do you agree with these proposals? If you have direct knowledge of what is most commonly used in the country, please let us know. Ground Zero (talk) 22:08, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Moved to the top of this page. Ground Zero (talk) 04:07, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Mobile data coverage
4G data coverage is good in Bridgetown, as well as through Holetown up to Speightstown and to the northern centre of the island near the Barbados Wildlife Reserve (although perhaps this is because there is a mobile tower just outside of it). Oistins and Bathsheba also have good signal. The coverage seems to have improved since the article was last updated in 2022. The only blind spot I have experienced is in the very centre of the island en route to Bathsheba from Bridgetown.

Mobile data is quite expensive here. A Digicel data-only plan of 20GB for 30 days costs Bds100, including the SIM card which they charge Bds15 for. Funny side note - every Digicel SIM Card comes with 500MB activation credit, so I got a text message telling me that my data was running out. The sales rep at the Digicel outlet informed me with a smile to just ignore this. I'd suggest carefully measuring how much data you are using while here. I have found 4G to be more reliable than WiFi.

Tom93eire (talk) 14:41, 7 March 2024 (UTC)

Buses, Minivans, Route Taxis, Public Transport
I have found the public transport to be very different to many other countries. There are many difference types of buses, minivans, and route taxis, none of which are listed on Google Maps directions. Route Taxis are also known as "ZR"s due to this being shown on their registration.

The single fare for any journey of any length in any direction is Bds3.50 Transport board buses will not give change, however the minibuses and route taxis will. Just don't try to break a 100.

https://ta.gov.bb/Routes/Minibus/ Has a lot of information about the different routes for minibuses and route taxis. The website www.transportboard.com has some good info about the state-run buses and their routes.

If travelling from Bridgetown: There is the Princess Alice Terminal, which has little roofing, so be sure to bring an umbrella just in case. There's also the Fairchild street terminal, where you can purchase a bus token for Bds3.50. This has a lot of terminals and each terminus has the destination(s) printed above. Then further along the river, on the opposite side, there is the Constitution River terminal, which is for Minibuses and Route Taxis only. What I found was that the Fairchild Street terminal seems to be where many of the pensioners and people with survivor's benefits, etc., would board in order to avail of their government subsidized free travel. Seats are limited, so, it may be better to walk further down the river to the Constitution River terminal, where you can get a Minibus or Route taxi for the same price.

Some of the minibuses and route taxis are reminiscent of the "Crazy Taxi" games. Blasting reggae music and cramming as many people in as possible. If in doubt, ask the driver or a local if the vehicle stops where you want to get to. This is not always a guarantee, however, as I recently found out! Tom93eire (talk) 12:21, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Barbados


text:
Talk:Barberton (Mpumalanga)

Copyright violations from
A contributor is constantly copying and pasting information directly from. I will revert those changes as I see them --(WT-en) Nick 03:45, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Barberton (Mpumalanga)


text:
Talk:Barcelona

Artoba Tours
Hola welcome to Wikivoyage. You may be unaware that Wikivoyage has a policy about listing tour companies. If you haven't read that yet, I'd like you to do so, and then if you would please explain why you believe Artoba Tours offers a value-added experience that travellers couldn't replicate themselves without involving your company or one of your competitors. It's not a trick question, but from where I'm sat, having looked at your website, I'm currently of the opinion that we maybe shouldn't be listing your tours, but I am open to be persuaded. Best wishes, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:18, 7 February 2020 (UTC) —The preceding comment was added by Artobatours (talk • contribs)
 * Having dealt with these listings for a while, I was persuaded myself that its "archaeological" merit might be of interest to the traveller, and that's why I paused my habit of automatically rolling back per WV:Tour and Don't tout and blah blah blah. However, I must agree, this user seems to not have read our policies. Ibaman (talk) 18:27, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I understand your concern, and I have read the guidelines. Regarding the policy about listing tour companies I can demonstrate why the Artoba Tours deserves special merit and a listing.
 * "The operator must have a "real world" office with a phone number and address where the tour is operated."
 * Yes, as listed.
 * "Tours should offer something as a supplement, rather than a replacement for Wikivoyage guides. They should count as an activity available at a destination (e.g., a helicopter tour of a city, or a camel expedition into the Sahara)."
 * Yes, each and every tour provided by Artoba Tours provides a supplement in terms of getting an opportunity to walk the city, or drive in the countryside, with an expert in the field who gives first hand knowledge of what the traveller is seeing and doing. During the tours, the travellers' visit to Barcelona or other places in Catalonia are contextualised in terms of the one million year story of hominins and humans in this part of the world, and how the multitude of strands of geology, geography, botony, archaeology, history etc etc. all tie together in the street or road that travellers are walking down. This is not something that you can grasp from a guide book, and the activity is learning in the spirit of life long learning, even when on vacation. The same goes for the wine tours and guided hikes that Artoba Tours offers.
 * "If the tour operator is providing a booking service or general travel planning then it should not be listed."
 * No, the listing is not a booking service or general travel planning.
 * "Do not list resellers of tours, only list the actual tour operators."
 * No, the listing is not a reseller.
 * "Always list tour operators if they are requisite to visit a certain area. Examples include tours required by law (e.g., Panmunjeom and Chernobyl) and tours required due to exceptional danger (e.g., war zones and extreme environments such as the Amazon, Antarctica, Space, etc)."
 * Not applicable
 * "This policy doesn't prohibit listing walking tours."
 * The Artoba Tours are both walking tours and driven tours.
 * That does help a lot, thanks. It seems most or all of the trips are run by a professor of archaeology, which would elevate the tour quite a bit I should think. I remember two contrasting tours in Lanzarote looking at the volcanic landscape, one taken by a professional tour guide who didn't add much except constant - mostly puerile - background noise, and another which was led by a Venezuelan geologist who was super engaging and interesting. You look at mountains and rocks very differently when you have the benefit of an expert, so I imagine having a historian and archaeologist taking you around historical sites would allow a much deeper appreciation than you would necessarily get from just visiting by yourself.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:35, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I made just one small edit, which was to add some price information (something I think is an important part of the "don't tout" policy).  –Nucleosynth (t c) 16:39, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks - I edited the prices to match those listed on www.artobatours.com/faqs/ Artobatours (talk) 21:51, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Mail boats?
The linked barcosbarcelona.com does not appear to be about mail boats. It appears to be about renting yachts! - Jmabel (talk) 01:16, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Barcelona


text:
Talk:Barcelona/Barceloneta

El Rey de la Gamba
What's special in this restaurant? From the street it looks extremely touristic and not appetizing at all. Cheap-cafes polaroid-style photos of dishes; very populist selection of meals. Price seem to be quite non-moderate, especially judging by set menus €21-34. Can someone share more details on what makes it recommended at Wikivoyage? Did the original author have a chance to compare it to some other places--which, specifically? Or it's just "you will survive if you eat there"? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 15:14, 10 November 2007 (EST)

 * → Removed by 77.224.22.177: http://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Barcelona/Barceloneta&curid=2388&diff=1310386&oldid=1305004&rcid=1287238. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:04, 2 December 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Barcelona/Barceloneta


text:
Talk:Barcelona/Ciutat Vella

Cerveceria Catalana
I removed the Cerveceria Catalana from the listing, as it's already detailed in Eixample district article. It's a "place to avoid" now, but I don't think it's a valid reason for duplication.

BTW, we desperately need to define district borders for Barcelona to know where exactly to put this or that restaurant, cafe or hotel -- please share your opinion at the Barcelona talk page for details. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 14:48, 9 September 2007 (EDT)

Casc Antic
Casc Antic is another word for Ciutat Vella. A better division is La Ribera. This isn't 100% accurate either - the Catalan wikipedia page for this area is http://ca.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sant_Pere,_Santa_Caterina_i_la_Ribera (Sant Pere, Santa Caterina i Ribera) it doesn't include the park, but for tourists' ease of understanding, La Ribera is the best way of putting this. 88.14.255.165 15:46, 23 February 2009 (EST)

 * Please join the discussion in main article: Barcelona talk page. We desperately need someone with a good local knowledge there. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:21, 23 February 2009 (EST)

El Born Area
> Il Salero, C/del Rec, in El Born

> Arrel, a must in El Born area of town

So what exactly is El Born area? Is it the Born sqare and its nearest streets? Or something else? Can we define it in Understand:Orientation section?

 * El Born is normally considered to be a part of La Ribera, I believe. 88.14.255.165 15:46, 23 February 2009 (EST)

Banner
Is not the Gothic cathedral a better way to introduce the Old Town? --Alexander (talk) 22:49, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * This is a tough one. I like the original more for the picture itself, but your argument for #2 is a good one. I prefer #1 by a slight margin in the end of the day. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk | contributions ) 04:28, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
 * I haven't been to Barcelona, but I find the composition of the 1st banner more appealing. How much of what we're seeing is the Old City, though? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:16, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

Grand Hotel Central
Listed here. Should it be added at Grand_old_hotels? Pashley (talk) 06:20, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Barcelona/Ciutat Vella


text:
Talk:Barcelona/Gràcia

Why are my changes of the apartment reverted? To me it looks like an advertisement. chinzh 07:41, 27 December 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Barcelona/Gràcia


text:
Talk:Barcelona/Sants-Montjuïc/Pabellón Mies van der Rohe

English Wikivoyage
I'm not sure whether the article you started would fit into the criteria at Project:What is an article?

However, unless you can write in English, don't write here. But there is a Spanish-language Wikivoyage, too:

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 05:50, 28 November 2011 (EST)


text:
Talk:Barentsburg

Guide status?
I just glanced at it, and don't know much about the destination, but guide status? Not much info & weird formatting with images hanging below the end of text seems to indicate otherwise. Am I wrong? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:14, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

To Otbp
This is a Guide article and a natural for Otbp - a weird slice of Russia/USSR in Arctic Norway. It looks to me like all it needs is for the remaining listings to have geo added. Anything else anyone notices? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:34, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It's a rather short article. Is there really nothing more to say about it? Plus Svalbard already was a (rather weak) DotM way back when. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:40, 18 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Definitely! The mining company running the town has a pretty nice travel website with a lot of things to add and update. For example there are now two places to sleep, and three places to eat and drink. --Ypsilon (talk) 16:40, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Ypsilon (talk) 18:15, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Barentsburg


text:
Talk:Bari

Imho it makes no sense to devote more lines to a smallish festival in Adelfia than to Bari itself.

title: Talk:Bari


text:
Talk:Bari (province)

Regions
This province desperately needs regions. Can anyone come up with a logical way of grouping the cities?--(WT-en) globe-trotter 04:48, 16 October 2011 (EDT) The most logical way to arrange regions for this are would be to have two coastal areas, one north and one south of Bari and a third with the rest of the towns in the interior. Enzomartinelli (talk) 13:59, 21 June 2016 (UTC) user:enzomartinelli.

title: Talk:Bari (province)


text:
Talk:Ba Ria-Vung Tau

Moving
To make the naming of this article conform to other hyphenated place names on our site (Cluj-Napoca, etc.), I'm going to remove the internal spaces around the hyphen. (WT-en) Texugo 05:25, 17 March 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Ba Ria-Vung Tau


text:
Talk:Barima-Waini

Does this place qualify as destination under the "can you sleep there?" rule-of-thumb, or is it more of a day trip from somewhere else? (WT-en) Maj 12:19, 9 January 2007 (EST)
 * It's a region of Guyana, so I'd have to say it qualifies. By the way, I removed the link to the marine turtle association because, while they look like fine people, there was no information (either direct or indirect) for the traveler. -- (WT-en) Jonboy 13:44, 9 January 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Barima-Waini


text:
Talk:Barkly Tableland

Roadhouses
What do we do with roadhouses? Sure, they pass the "can you sleep there?" test, but many of them are just a hotel and restaurant. Should those really have a separate article? I made a separate article for Wycliffe Well, but that's based on its UFO history. What shall we do with the other roadhouses? Maybe we could just deal with them in the sleep section of Barkly Tableland? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 12:54, 5 January 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Barkly Tableland


text:
Talk:Barletta

For anyone who's wondering about the edit summaries, I'm expanding this article as part of a class project with some of my students.--(WT-en) Chaser 13:27, 24 November 2007 (EST)

The "phosphate"?
What does this weird sentence at the beginning of "See" mean?

It has four corners at the phosphate and around a garden with green space.

I consulted it:Barletta, and it has no equivalent passage. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:36, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Barletta


text:
Talk:Barnaul

few links to research
(all come via Wikipedia): --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:45, 4 January 2010 (EST)
 * http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%86%D1%8B_%D0%91%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%83%D0%BB%D0%B0
 * http://community.livejournal.com/barnaul/118960.html?nc=21
 * http://www.avtovokzal.ru/

title: Talk:Barnaul


text:
Talk:Barnstable

The villages
I've debated whether to open this topic, but I think the discussion needs to be here. I will reference it from the Talk:Hyannis page. These villages are unusual as opposed to other Cape town villages in that many locals and tourists think of them as individual towns. They are somewhat diverse and geographically spread. At this time there is only activity on the Hyannis page. As this is the main village, I am going to build that page along with the Town (Barnstable) page and reference the Hyannis items as appropriate. Other villages will go onto the Barnstable page for now. If someone wants to do articles on the other villages, we can move the items over to the village. Sound OK? - OldPine
 * Something to consider would be to make the villages as districts to Barnstable. So, you would have Barnstable/Hyannis in lieu of Barnstable. I would be interested to see comments by others. -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 12:32, 4 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Not sure I like that, Tom. Some travellers are likely search for the individual village names. Thing is, I'm not certain that these villages don't deserve their own page in the future. I like the redirects for now with a possibility of an article later. I would enjoy more comments, too. (WT-en) OldPine 12:56, 4 June 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Barnstable


text:
Talk:Barolo

Comments
I have been to Barolo on several occasions, most recently in 2006. It is a must-see for anyone doing wine tourism in northwest Italy, so I started a page for the city. Any help would be apprectiated.

(WT-en) Brhumphreys 13:56, 24 February 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Barolo


text:
Talk:Barossa Valley

I've started to convert this to a larger article by importing the region template. I'd be the first to admit it still needs lots of work - I'm just trying to take the first steps here.

—The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) AndyCunningham (talk • contribs) 14:03, 22 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Banner
Current seems kinda low-key boring (and unattractive for the state's biggest tourist draw and Australia's most prominent wine region). -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 00:54, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Banner 1 is a big improvement. Ground Zero (talk) 01:02, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 07:25, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Barossa Valley


text:
Talk:Barren Island

"It is not possible to set foot on the island, only to view it from the boat." If this is the case, then it's not a destination and should be rolled into the island that the tours leave from. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:10, 17 October 2006 (EDT)

 * OK, I added it as a side-trip on the Port Blair page... this page is deleteable... (WT-en) Cacahuate 09:35, 17 October 2006 (EDT)
 * Rather than deleting, I've redirected it to Port Blair. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 09:43, 17 October 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Barren Island


text: Talk:Bartica

title: Talk:Bartica


text:
Talk:Baseball in the United States

Comments
Citation for the MLB wealth comment? I'm fairly certain that the MLB is not the richest professional league in the world. Within the US alone, the NFL is far richer, I believe, and a lot more popular.
 * I think the intended meaning is that baseball players generally make the most money of all four major professional team sports. Daniel Case (talk) 15:32, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Baseball in the United States
Is discussion of the World Baseball Classic really germane to an article about Baseball in the United States? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 05:57, 20 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Yeah, adding an International section to this article seems to run counter to its purpose. I suppose the World Baseball Classic could be briefly mentioned in the "Outside the United States" section, but that's all the space I would give it. PerryPlanet (talk) 13:27, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Length of the rules section
Guys, the rules section is just supposed to provide enough overview for a visitor to understand what's happening on the field. Do we really need to get into [//en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Baseball_in_the_United_States&diff=2966926&oldid=2957354 official terminology and events that occur just a few times a season]? Powers (talk) 19:38, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

 * It's not very long, and I think it's good, so while we don't "really need" to get into this, I support it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:41, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

 * Well, the section is considerably shorter now. I cut out almost a full paragraph after LtPowers' comment above, and I think it reads a lot better now. PerryPlanet (talk) 00:50, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Getting to a ballpark without a car
Correct me if I am wrong on that (and I probably am), but my perception is that most ballparks tend to be more downtown than e.g. NFL stadiums and hence the chance of a good public transit connection existing is a bit higher. Is that true? If so, should it be mentioned in this article? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:51, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

 * The simple answer is: it depends. While there is definitely a higher likelihood of a ballpark being more downtown than an NFL stadium, given the sheer size of most NFL stadiums, there are plenty of MLB ballparks that are located far from any downtown surrounded by parking lots. Examples that come to mind are the stadiums for the Angels, the Dodgers, the Royals, the White Sox, the A's, the Mets, the Rangers, the Rays, the Phillies... I think the Braves' new ballpark is going to be way out in the suburbs too. At any rate, given the range of conditions, I think its a question best left to the individual city guides. PerryPlanet (talk) 20:52, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

What makes Mike Trout "the game's best player"?
I am no Baseball expert by any stretch of the imagination, but is there any way in which a consensus on who is the "best player" in the game could be determined? I know a bit about soccer, handball and American Football. In the former two "best" is an inherently subjective category. In the latter, there are some statistical indicators, but it would be silly to try to compare the best statistical Quarterback in NFL history (Peyton Manning by almost all ways you could measure it) with a world class kicker, defense player or even wide receiver. Also, there are still people who make (to me not entirely convincing) arguments that statistics are meaningless and only championships should count. At any rate, should we make such a claim? I think not. But if there is some way in which Mike Trout is unquestionably the best (tm), we might mention that specific measure. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:48, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Mike Trout is certainly a great player, but I think he's a bit overrated; plus, he's been around for a little while now, so he's starting to get a bit long in the tooth. But beyond any of this, I think it's good practice to avoid mentioning specific current players in the context of a travel guide, since all that is readily subject to change. Not only do players regularly get traded, but it only takes one bad injury or one lousy season to sink a player's reputation. PerryPlanet (talk) 04:18, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

Angels of Anaheim
I think there was a clause in their stadium lease or something of the sort that specifies that "Anaheim" has to be part of their offical name. If this is (still) the case I think it might be worth mentioning as a Trivia fact. Hobbitschuster (talk) 08:59, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Softball
I was wondering if we should add anything about softball here, since women's professional baseball is not very popular, and it's typically softball that is played by women on a professional level. I'm not familiar with either sport, but it looks similar to baseball though unlike in baseball, a softball pitch is underarm. What does everyone think? The dog2 (talk) 19:20, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Outside the United States?
Isn't that by definition off-topic? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:11, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I guess, but I think it is useful to let people know what the other countries where baseball is popular are. If someone wants to create a Baseball in Japan article, go for it. The dog2 (talk) 14:51, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Or, for now, Baseball outside the United States. Ground Zero (talk) 15:48, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Is it possible to have the article titled simply "Baseball"? Seems like that would make a whole lot more sense... Mrkstvns (talk) 20:07, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * If there's enough content for it, then sure. We can move the rules from this article to that one then. The dog2 (talk) 20:10, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I would suggest then a Baseball article with the rules and information about baseball in different countries, with a sub-article for each country for which we have a bunch of information, which for now is just Baseball in the United States ((and Canada), but may expand to other countries if anyone feels like researching and writing articles for them. Ground Zero (talk) 21:07, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I think that makes sense. The dog2 (talk) 21:08, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

I've implemented this proposal. The Baseball article would benefit from contributions from editors more interested in the subject than I am. Ground Zero (talk) 12:40, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I think this is a good solution. I made a few fairly minor edits. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:40, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Colombian Baseball
Colombia was recently removed from the "elsewhere" section given this, I am not 100% sure of said removal... Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:25, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

 * Your misgivings seem appropriate. Is there a good reason not to restore the mention of Colombia unless, as per the previous thread, we remove the "Outside the United States" section? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:19, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with Ikan Kekek. If they have a professional league and have produced major league players, I'm not sure what justification there can be for removing the listing. Mrkstvns (talk) 20:09, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The question is whether or not baseball is popular in Colombia. Australia has a professional baseball league and has had players in MLB, but it most certainly should not be listed because baseball is very much a niche sport in Australia, and hardly anyone follows it. I've lived in Australia before and can attest to that; almost nobody follows the Australian Baseball League (ABL) even though it exists, and even MLB gets hardly any attention from most Australian sports fans. If baseball is actually popular in Colombia then it should be listed, but if it is only a niche sport then it should not, regardless of whether it has a professional league or MLB players. The dog2 (talk) 12:31, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Like any travel topic, something that is not of interest to most people will be of interest to some people. We have an article on Christian sites in Japan, so why not provide information to rapid baseball fans who want to see what baseball is like in other countries? Ground Zero (talk) 13:43, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Australia
Does Australia even warrant a mention? Sure, baseball exists in Australia, and there might even be a pro league, but it's certainly not a popular sport in Australia. I've lived in Australia before, and we have some editors who are Australian, and baseball is not a major part of Australian culture. In Australia, the main sports are Australian rules football (except in New South Wales and Queensland), cricket and rugby league (only in New South Wales and Queensland), and hardly anyone follows baseball. It's not like Japan, South Korea or Taiwan where baseball is a major part of the local culture, and virtually everybody follows baseball. The dog2 (talk) 18:10, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * There's no question there are different degrees, but I think we have different definitions of "popular". I don't see how any sport that can support a professional league could be deemed "unpopular". Powers (talk) 19:37, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I've lived in Australia before, and almost nobody pays attention to baseball there. It is very much a niche sport. Even soccer enjoys more popularity than baseball in Australia. The dog2 (talk) 00:12, 13 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree.
 * The only baseball that even gets attention is usually baseball in the U.S. and that's very rare. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:22, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

Suspect typo
from Correct typos in one click bobblehead->bubblehead? (replace) context: special section to use it), a bobblehead bobblehead museum, and colorful art elements

 * Booblehead is correct. See Bobblehead. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:40, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Caught stealing
I thought a pickoff was scored as "caught stealing" only if the runner is put out while trying to advance, rather than trying to get back to the base. Am I wrong? For example, should a pitcher pick off a runner who tries to get back to 1st base, is that still scored as a "caught stealing"? I thought not. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:16, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

Pop-up, pop out, line out, liner, etc.
Do you think these terms should be explained? I've seen them in baseball news though I don't really know what they mean, but pop out and line out seem to be variants of a fly out. Also, is there an unwritten tradition that pitchers do not catch a fly out? Apparently it is perfectly fine for a pitcher to catch a fly out in the official rules, but there is an unofficial tradition that pitchers do not do so and leave this job to their catchers or other fielders. The dog2 (talk) 11:54, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Popup/pop out is fairly self-explanatory, I think: a high, short fly ball in or near the infield. You're right that pitchers usually let infielders or the catcher catch them, but the better fielding pitchers sometimes catch them, themselves. A line out is a line drive that's caught for an out, and a line drive is a ball that's neither hit high in the air nor beaten into the ground (which would be a ground ball) but hit on a line. Are those clear explanations? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:17, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, that look clear to me. The question is whether or not these terms are common enough to warrant explanation in the article. And one more thing; I've seen videos of pitchers catching the liners, but is that very rare, or does the pitcher usually catch liners hit close to him? The dog2 (talk) 21:46, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * That's unusual because line drives travel toward the pitcher's mound so quickly. Pitchers who catch line drives right at them are usually either great fielders, have their glove in the right place at the right time, or both. A pitcher catching a hard line drive is always a great play. On whether popups, line drives and ground balls require explanations, maybe. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:37, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
 * There's a weird new rule that should be mentioned, in my opinion, because it was very confusing when I saw it this year, and I'm quite knowledgeable about baseball rules: Major League Baseball decided to do this stupid thing of starting each half inning in extra innings with a runner already on 2nd base. Their purpose was to shorten games, and it's worked, but it's horrible to baseball purists. I believe it's new this year, but I stand to be corrected. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:05, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Another thing we should explain is when managers can appeal an umpire's call and instant replay is viewed by an official, because that could really confuse viewers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:09, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure. You know baseball better than I do, so go ahead and make the additions. Also, I tried to make a fly out explanation clearer but it's a little complicated, so it would be appreciated if you can copyedit. My understanding is that if the catcher catches a fly ball, it is a fly out only if the ball is a fair ball, while a foul ball caught by the catcher would result in a foul tip. On the other hand, it's always a fly out if the pitcher or any of the fielders catch a fly ball, regardless of whether it is a fair ball or foul ball. But correct me if I'm wrong. The dog2 (talk) 14:51, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Popups behind the plate foul that are caught are also outs. Foul tips don't go high in the air. I'll add the explanation soon. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:19, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * And I think we also need to explain tag ups, and whether or not runners can advance if a fly ball is caught. I know the batter will be out in such a scenario, but I'm not sure about the runners. Also perhaps you can explain better than me what a "steal" is, when it can be attempted, and how a runner attempting a steal can be "caught stealing". I tried my hand at it from Wikipedia but it still confuses me. And are runners on 3rd base allowed to steal home base to score a run? The dog2 (talk) 00:14, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, you can steal home. It's unusual but does happen. I'm not totally sure about all the situations that are scored "caught stealing." Tagging up is a good thing to explain. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:16, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I tried to add and clarify information. I hope I didn't get too far into the weeds, but of course I could have gone much further, and I think that part of the charm of going to a baseball game is talking to fans who will be happy to explain the game to someone new to baseball. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:50, 16 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Baseball in the United States


text:
Talk:Basel

Basel vs. Basle
Basel (/ˈbɑːzəl/ or /ˈbɑːl/; or, less often used: Basle), German: Basel; pronounced [ˈbaːzəl]) is Switzerland's third most populous city (behind Zürich and ... per Wikipedia - Matroc (talk) 21:13, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Basel is in German-speaking Switzerland and the German name of the city is Basel. Basel is also apparently used on English WP, so I'm sure that's the name we should use too.
 * That said, the French name Basle is apparently used in English so we should mention it as well. More importantly for a travel guide like ours: on road signs, train timetables and such in next door France and in Francophone Switzerland you are going to encounter that name instead. I'd therefore suggest creating an redirect for Basle. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:51, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I thought the French name was Bâle, as for example shown here. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:19, 1 November 2014 (UTC)
 * My bad. I was 100% sure Basle was the thing you can see on Geneva railway station etc. but I should've checked it anyway. Looks like Basle is an alternate English name for the city. Maybe it's best to mention all three names. --ϒpsilon (talk) 09:11, 2 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Sure. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:42, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

Border status
Could any recent traveller please check the info on border status at the airport and elsewhere. When I last visited it was very free & easy, you could just drift between territories, so I've edited accordingly. But that was a couple of years ago, and the level of security might change suddenly even if the Schengen rules are unchanged. The question applies to all Swiss borders but is most acute in a city such as Basel. Grahamsands (talk) 13:12, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Removing the international tram
This edit removed the international line of the Basel tram as a possibility to "get in". While we may agree that Weil am Rhein basically forms part of the Basel conurbation, it is across a national border and for the analogous situation between Strasbourg and Kehl, we do mention the tram in "get in". So I think it does have value for travelers if only for visitors to Switzerland to do a day trip into Germany (Swiss people apparently like to shop in Germany). Hobbitschuster (talk) 09:48, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Just to add to this, I created an article about Saint-Louis (France) which is also served by the Basel tram. Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:37, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:08, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Sarah Oppenheimer, 33-D. Installationsansicht.jpg
 * "lack permission from the photographer."., , . Do we want this? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:41, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * No. There's no fair use in violating the copyright of the photographer. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:04, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅. Removed. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 03:10, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * We might not want it, but there was no explanation about why the nominator thinks it isn't own photo. –LPfi (talk) 07:44, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * In which case, we could consider restoring it. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:07, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * OK. The DR will remain open for some time, and although the nominator was careless (and might be a problem user) the photo or the upload may still be a copyright violation. –LPfi (talk) 08:47, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Suspect typo
from Correct typos in one click pharma->parma? (omit) context: of the pharmaceutical industry. The international pharma pharma giant Novartis is headquartered in

add this?
Cartoon Museum Pashley (talk) 00:37, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Basel


text:
Talk:Basilan

A lot of this text was copied from Wikipedia. Please don't do that! The licences are not compatible. Also, much an encyclopedia's text does not belong in a travel guide. I've chopped some, but this needs more work. (WT-en) Pashley 09:13, 27 September 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Basilan


text:
Talk:Basildon

''Copied from Project:votes for deletion by (WT-en) Evan. The page was kept.''

 * Basildon. Description says it all - should be incorporated into Essex (I guess). -- (WT-en) Nils 09:54, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT)
 * Don't delete. Please read Project:What is an article? again, again. --(WT-en) Evan 11:12, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT)
 * Keep Basildon. The English countryside seems to be littered with these villages and small towns that people half way round the world want to go back and visit because their ancestors came from there, or some place in Australia or New Zealand has the same name. -- (WT-en) Huttite 11:41, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT)
 * Since when was Basildon classified as a small village? It has over 165,000 residents! Villages are < 50,000 at least. 80.193.18.169 10:05, 7 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Keep. (WT-en) Akubra 12:06, 20 Apr 2004 (EDT)

title: Talk:Basildon


text:
Talk:Basque Country

sources for further research

 * Eat: --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 19:22, 9 November 2007 (EST)

boat
does anyone have a clue how to get to Euskadi by boat from the UK?

There was (is ?) a ferry service to Bilbao from Plymouth or Portsmouth. There is one from Plymouth to Santander which isn't far from Bilbao. 83.192.124.39 19:05, 14 August 2008 (EDT)

ETA
surely its worth mentioning ETA (basque seperatist group), they have been known to be rather violent —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 212.219.49.2 (talk • contribs)
 * ETA is mentioned in the history section of the article. If you think there is more to say, please plunge forward. (WT-en) Jnich99 12:41, 6 July 2010 (EDT)
 * Since ETA's actions are not limited to Basque Country, I think Spain would be a better place to mention it. However, as average travellers are well away from ETA's target list (heck, they call the police to inform whenever they plant a bomb in a public place), it can even go without a mention there, too. – (WT-en) Vidimian 13:10, 6 July 2010 (EDT)

Navarre and French Basque Country
Whhere are Navarre and French Basque Country? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 195.57.68.101 (talk • contribs) 12:37, 20 September 2010

 * Here and here. Slightly more seriously, in the current geographical hierarchy, Navarre and Basque Country are both part of Northern Spain, while French Basque Country/Pyrénées-Atlantiques is a part of Southwestern France. If you disagree with the way it is, you may start a discussion at Talk:Northern Spain. – (WT-en) Vidimian 14:41, 28 September 2010 (EDT)

 * Oh, this is a problem. I just followed up on an edit that added these areas to this article, which is quite accurate definitionally. I was going to bring up the issue of which cities to delete in order to get to 9. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:47, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

 * Well, as I see it, the problem is that they call both an autonomous subunit of Spain and the larger Basque homeland, which contains the said autonomous region as well as the neighbouring bits of Spain and France, as the "Basque Country" (Wikipedia articles here: w:Basque Country (autonomous community) and w:Basque Country (greater region)). I don't think we should really be listing Galician towns such as Baiona in the article for the autonomous community of Basque Country, whether they are ethnically/culturally Basque or not (listing French towns in what is essentially a region of Spain would even be worse). This article may be renamed (but what?) to make it clearer that we only mean the autonomous Spanish region of Basque Country (or we might have explanations in this article to that effect), and then set up a disambiguation style page that would link to various articles about the regions that are inhabited by the Basque people (and link that disambig from here). Vidimian (talk) 10:06, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

 * I understand the issue. How about having "Basque Country" redirect to "Basque Autonomous Zone," then starting this article with a disambig with links to Navarra and the French Basque country and including what's currently the first bulleted explanation, starting with the Basque name - "The Autonomous Community of Euskadi"? Would that work? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:29, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

 * If we'll have "Basque Country" redirect to this article, then why bother changing its name to a longer (and, frankly, an ugly) one? I'd agree with the links to Navarra and the French Basque Country, as well as starting the article with the Basque name. And if having this article under the name "Basque Country" is unacceptable for Basque editors, provided there are no oppositions, we could even change its name to Euskadi, which would be crystal clear, as the native name for the larger containing Basque homeland is different—Euskal Herria. The one-liner explanations in, say, Northern Spain can take care of English speakers who haven't heard the Basque name, then, I guess. Vidimian (talk) 11:00, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

 * Sounds reasonable to me, but I wish Argiemanaz had read my note on his/her user talk page and weighed in, and I hope s/he still does. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:34, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Is this a region article?
Or something else? The hierarchy seems to firmly place the Basque Country inside Spain, as does most of the content of the article, but the lead and some elements of content also seem to want to include the French Basque Country. I should think it would better serve the traveller if this article only dealt with the Autonomous Community that is wholly within Spain, and leave the Navarre and the French Basque Country to (already extant) separate articles. Of course I am aware this could be a thorny political issue. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:50, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

 * I'd suggest focusing it on the Autonomous Community and explaining the larger context in "Understand", probably at the beginning of the section, before "History". Unrelated: Photos are needed in the article. I'll add one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:51, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

 * Ah, thanks for the response and your opinion, Ikan, I agree there should be some information about the wider context and the other Basque areas not in this region. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:23, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

 * I tried to make the scope a little clearer. I think the lead is important for defining the scope, but could not come up with any good wording. --LPfi (talk) 09:19, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

 * I'd forgotten about this article. Thanks, LPfi :-) --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:08, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Basque Country


text:
Talk:Basque phrasebook

Quality
The quality of English in this article isn't as good as it could be. Outside of the set phrases the spellings are slightly out and the word ordering seems slightly adrift, I'll ty and correct what I can. Well done to the person/s who created it though, more Basque than I know.

NEW: As I'm Basque speaker and I have corrected it a little bit and added the translations they were not done. It was quite well done. Regards

Pronunciation guide
... but the 's' in 'see' and the 's' in 'song' are the same! Surely you meant that one of them is voiced and one of them isn't, in which case you could choose better (correct) examples.

 * Actually, they're both voiceless; the "s" is pronounced further back than the "z" ("s" is an apico-alveolar, if that helps). I'll try and clear this up a little bit. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:07, 27 March 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Basque phrasebook


text:
Talk:Bass River

To delete or not to delete?
That is the question. More accurately, the question is: just what is this place? In New England it's often difficult to sort out "towns" from "villages" from "unincorporated places" from "wide spots in the road that nobody lives in." Does Bass River have any separate identity at all, or is it just part of Yarmouth (Massachusetts)? Can you sleep there? Do its inhabitants (if there are any) recognize it as a town rather than a part of Yarmouth? If the answer to any of these is "yes," it shouldn't be deleted, IMO. Merged into the Yarmouth article (which, of course, has yet to be populated, but that one definitely passes the "can you sleep there" test and should be viable) and redirected, maybe. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 14:41, 2 June 2006 (EDT)

 * You can sleep there. It has cottages, businesses and a bridge over the river. It's not recognized as a town. I agree that it's difficult to sort these things out. I just don't see that there's enough going on there to fill an article with. I say put our hopes into Yarmouth being a great article. If someone wants to go off and do a whole article on this village the size of a couple football fields some day, well OK. In the meantime it's a distraction to anyone exploring the region because it has no content and probably never will have any of any import.

 * In that case, I think it probably does pass the destination test, and should not be deleted. Just the fact that an article is "there" doesn't mean there has to be any priority in filling it, and having it there doesn't cause any harm -- there are pages for places in North Dakota a lot smaller than this one and we tolerate those just fine.  Recommend you go ahead and work some on the Yarmouth article, possibly building in some manner of "hook" that references Bass River if appropriate; a redirect rather than deletion then becomes a sensible way of closing this chapter. (P.S. Remember to use the four tildes.) -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 15:00, 2 June 2006 (EDT)

 * If the issue is that this is a town outside of Yarmouth then it probably should get its own article. If it's within Yarmouth, why not just create a redirect to Yarmouth?  That can be done by replacing the article content with " #REDIRECT Yarmouth (Massachusetts) ". -- (WT-en) Ryan 15:12, 2 June 2006 (EDT)

 * It's within Yarmouth. I can live with a redirect. Not sure why I care if it's deleted except I'd like some kind of consistency with regard to village/place and town content.

As an FYI to everyone, looking at Yarmouth, Massachusetts, it seems like the "town" of Yarmouth is more analogous to a North Dakota county than to a North Dakota city. These "villages" within Yarmouth (including Bass River, South Yarmouth, West Yarmouth, Yarmouth Port) seem more analogous to a North Dakota city. And yeah, Mass. also has counties too -- check out Barnstable County, Massachusetts which covers most of the cape, but is subdivided into 15 "towns" and not one square inch of the county is outside of those towns. Ugh. And I though England was weird with its nomenclature. -- (WT-en) Colin 15:22, 2 June 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Bass River


text:
Talk:Bastrop

Well this article sure is cranking! I think that if it keeps going it could be a real star. --(WT-en) Evan 23:00, 18 April 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Bastrop


text:
Talk:Batam

I removed this link to an external map, but it might be useful for research: http://www.batam-center.web.id/images/map_batamisland.jpg. --(WT-en) Evan 08:06, 7 December 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Batam


text:
Talk:Batangas

Comments
For more information on Batangas, find the Batangas Province Chamber of Commerce & Industry. It's major projects are Food Production, Small and Medium Enterprises, and Tourism (assistance, promotion, etc.) The contact information are available under the batangaschamber website. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 124.6.190.132 (talk • contribs) 26 Dec 2006

Major improvements needed
This province page is currently incomplete, and most info that should be on their specific pages are all aggregated here. I already laid out plans to rewrite this page, but I need further help here. I am currently working on transport-related info, and cities and towns. -TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 19:25, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

 * I cannot help much, don't know the region. I agree it needs work, & I may do a little. Pashley (talk) 07:30, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

With the closure of Boracay starting this April 26, it may be a good idea to improve this article, along with creation of articles for the various. I have knowledge of the province, so I can improve the article, but I cannot everything except for the most important destinations TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 00:55, 27 April 2018 (UTC)

Split into regions
I proposed splitting up the province into 4 travel regions: East, South, Taal Lake Area, and West; and I formerly thought of splitting it into two (just East and West), but it is far too large (most parts of my proposed eastern Batangas and eastern parts of my proposed western region are around Taal Lake, enough to form their own travel region centered on Taal Volcano). The proposed regionalization scheme can place most little info about the most important destinations, including attractions, activities and festivals, and accommodations, to those pages to reduce the clutter. Any opinions?--TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 21:56, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Cities list and "Other destinations"
Batangas has 4 cities as of 2020, and the rest being towns, so the big question is whether to replace some towns on our list. I'm thinking if we should put Cuenca under "Other destinations" instead as its primary attraction is Mount Maculot and its town is not so special, so do Mabini or Anilao for their diving spots (Mabini also has a town, but still has no coverage).--TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 23:52, 6 November 2020 (UTC)

What does this mean?
First of all, This Has A Lot Of Unnecessary Initial Capitalization, but I don't even understand a lot of this. Is any of it useful?

Almost Local Company South Luzon Bicol Buses and Cul Transport Smiley Bus Silverstar Bus routes.

Locally Shuttle Bus Province Of Batangas.

Major Transportation in Province Of Batangas Luxury Cars, Tricycle, Motorcycle, Track, Cars, Jeepneys, Domestic Buses and Uv Express.

Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:52, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

 * I also have no idea what any of this word mumble jumble means. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:17, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

 * I've deleted the worst of it & done some other cleanup, but it needs more. Pashley (talk) 11:44, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Pashley. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 21:22, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Batangas


text:
Talk:Bath

I think that Bath (England) is a much better known destination than any of the North American towns of the same name, and that Bath should go straight to that article with a for other places disambiguation link back for the others. Anyone think otherwise? --(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:15, 8 July 2011 (EDT)
 * Our standard is usually pretty high -- much higher than Wikipedia's, for instance -- but given the precedent at Saint Petersburg I guess Bath could qualify. (WT-en) LtPowers 13:53, 8 July 2011 (EDT)
 * Bath (Maine) is pretty obscure, while England's Bath is a well known international tourist destination dating back to the Romans. Especially if we are going to feature it on the main page, I think it would be best to move this to Bath (disambiguation) and get rid of the (England) disambiguator on the main article. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:40, 15 July 2011 (EDT)
 * Eh, the feelthy gringo named a steenking town "Bath ME"... that's almost funny. Heh. In any case, though, there is a need for disambiguation (I need to go remove this town from the Windsor-Quebec corridor where it currently sits a half-hour west of Kingston (Ontario) on the Loyalist Parkway... oops!) so I've added a hatnote pointing to Bath (disambiguation) so that "Bath ON", "Bath NY" and the like can be dumped there if any merit a page. K7L (talk) 20:46, 3 November 2012 (CET)

Banner
We have got a new page banner from Wiki Loves Monuments. I am really undecided. The new one is of better quality, but it does not show the bath... --Alexander (talk) 21:21, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bath


text:
Talk:Bath (disambiguation)

I think that Bath (England) is a much better known destination than any of the North American towns of the same name, and that Bath should go straight to that article with a for other places disambiguation link back for the others. Anyone think otherwise? --(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:15, 8 July 2011 (EDT)
 * Our standard is usually pretty high -- much higher than Wikipedia's, for instance -- but given the precedent at Saint Petersburg I guess Bath could qualify. (WT-en) LtPowers 13:53, 8 July 2011 (EDT)
 * Bath (Maine) is pretty obscure, while England's Bath is a well known international tourist destination dating back to the Romans. Especially if we are going to feature it on the main page, I think it would be best to move this to Bath (disambiguation) and get rid of the (England) disambiguator on the main article. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:40, 15 July 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Bath (disambiguation)


text:
Talk:Bathurst (New Brunswick)

I moved this page to conform to our article naming conventions. --(WT-en) Evan 05:37, 25 Jul 2004 (EDT)

title: Talk:Bathurst (New Brunswick)


text:
Talk:Baton Rouge

Any help here is welcome. (WT-en) Matt Diez
 * Sadly, almost all my experience with BR involves driving straight through on the way to new orleans or flordia. (WT-en) Jordanmills 17:07, 28 December 2006 (EST)

Drink section
I rebuilt it with the "new" <drink> tags. Hope it works right. It doesn't exactly fit the style of the rest of the article, but that's 'cause the rest doesn't quite follow style guidelines. I removed the "tigerland" entry since it's not very specific or descriptive, and I don't know enough about the area to document it better. I'm sure it should be added back if someone knows something more specific. (WT-en) Jordanmills 17:56, 28 December 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Baton Rouge


text:
Talk:Battambang

Listings editor bug
Found a listings editor bug: if the section headers have spaces (e.g., == Eat == ) the add listing button brings up the form editor as usual, but upon saving you get the error message "Error adding 'see' listing in Battambang: Invalid tag name". I tested this on other pages, and hit the same bug. I've filed the bug here --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:19, 4 October 2009 (EDT)

first person anecdote
A great Tuk Tuk driver and guide we met goes by the name of 'Kim'. One of the nicest people you will ever meet and doesn't try to rip you off like many other Tuk Tuk drivers. He has very good English and reasonable prices. For Tuk Tuk alone he charges $15 for full day OR guide and Tuk Tuk he charges $20 for a full day. Also does short trips, is very knowledgeable and takes you to all the tourist attractions including bamboo train, killing cave and the countryside. I Highly recommend him for anyone staying in Battambang. His contact details are Ph: (+855) 12 65 44 27 or email: kim_chhaya@yahoo.com

Article on another travel site
This sustainable Cambodian city could be the model to save Southeast Asia from over-tourism Pashley (talk) 12:01, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Battambang


text:
Talk:Battersea (Ontario)

Core information from Wikipedia, will edit more shortly. - 21:43, 25 July 2007 74.101.44.169
 * It's not useful to simply repeat huge blocks of information already in the Wikipedia as anyone who wants it will look there. Once that is removed, "Battersea" as a page seems to be just somewhere to dump three or four listings (an inn, a marina, a restaurant) for a tiny speck-on-a-map unincorporated village near the Rideau Canal with the rest of this padded with listings for Westport or other towns. I'm not sure if there's enough here to justify a page. There is a legitimate place for an article on Westport (Ontario) and on Kingston (Ontario). Sydenham is a bit small for its own page, Inverary and Battersea much too small to stand on their own, Verona (Ontario) is minuscule. I'm thinking the north-of-Kingston villages and this chunk of the Rideau Canal (from Westport south, ending at Brewers Mills as this technically hits Kingston there) should be grouped around Westport as somewhere just large enough to have a commercial main street, food, lodging and a weekly newspaper. K7L (talk) 04:52, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Battersea (Ontario)


text:
Talk:Batu Ferringhi

Shangri-La Penang
An anonymous user has for some reason take a dislike to the Shangri-La Penang — perhaps you'd care to explain why instead of just deleting it? (WT-en) Jpatokal 19:40, 7 Nov 2005 (EST)

 * Nemmind, just realized that it's in George Town. (WT-en) Jpatokal 20:02, 7 Nov 2005 (EST)

 * Hi Jpatokal, it was me who remove Shangri-La Penang. Just noticed your question, sorry. (WT-en) Alexlee 10:38, 22 Nov, 2005 (UTC+8)

title: Talk:Batu Ferringhi


text:
Talk:Batumi

Comments
The website listed for Georgian Railways does not list Batumi as a stop on any of their trains...Ozurgeti and Poti are the nearest cities listed listed as stops. Any comments/info?(WT-en) AHeneen 04:11, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

 * That's odd—the rail system definitely extends to Batumi. As of 2005 I took the train there from Tbilisi before switching to a cab to the Turkish border. But I guess I don't know what the situation is following the bombings last month. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:22, 20 October 2008 (EDT)

The station for Batumi is called Makhindjauri and is located about 5 km north of Batumi center. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Bouncer (talk • contribs)

title: Talk:Batumi


text:
Talk:Bavaria

Cities and Regions
The list of cities is starting to get a bit long. As there are over 1000 potential listings here, I thought it appropriate to build out the sub-state regions. I subdivided as follows:
 * Franconia - because it links the next 3 regions logically.
 * Upper Franconia (Oberfranken)
 * Middle Franconia (Mittelfranken)
 * Lower Franconia (Unterfranken)
 * Swabia (Schwaben)
 * Upper Palatinate (Oberpfalz)
 * Upper Bavaria (Oberbayern)
 * Lower Bavaria (Niederbayern)

I think the cities listed here should be limited to the capitals of each region, with others going onto their region page instead. Meaning the city list should stay under 10. -- (WT-en) Huttite 03:42, 28 Dec 2005 (EST)

 * The cities list is getting quite long again. I think most should be bumped down to their relevant (presently non-existent) region pages. The five major cities I would recommend keeping here are Munich, Augsburg, Nuremberg, Regensburg and Würzburg. -- (WT-en) Brendio 11:21, 22 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * Kinda feels like digging up old bones here three years after this discussion. Upper, Middle, and Lower Franconia are in fact separate political regions of Bavaria, but in most travel regards, can be put together in one group.  Swabia is another political entity in Bavaria, but normal references to Swabia refer to a region including most of Baden-Württemberg, part of Bavaria, and can even include parts of Switzerland, Leichtenstein, and other countries.  Kinda makes it difficult to separate Bavaria - Do we go with separating it by political regions or into the larger regions?  (The latter might require some disambiguation page for Swabia...)  I think I'm partly for the latter, Franconia in my opinion fits well into a single category.  Any thoughts from anyone? (note: somehow got logged out, came back to change the timestamp) (WT-en) hokiesvt 13:02, 16 March 2009 (EDT)

Please have a look at the destinations and cities list :( it's over 9 and this needs to be taken action ASAP. I suggest to put the other cities in their respective regions and while the important cities will be left in the list. (WT-en) SnappyHip 21:20, 25 March 2010 (GST)

 * I fixed the cities and OD list of Bavaria, but now we have a new problem at Upper Bavaria. Please help me out at Talk:Upper Bavaria. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 17:29, 12 August 2010 (EDT)

Bavarian food
There is a separate article Bavarian food which I think is not very useful yet. Should we integrate it into this article? I could contribute a bit to this, but I am not sure how it should look like in the main article. --(WT-en) Flip666 16:47, 7 April 2006 (EDT)

Serbo-Croation
User:Traveler100 has [//en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Bavaria&type=revision&diff=2940395&oldid=2940388 changed] links to Bosnian phrasebook, Croatian phrasebook, and Serbian phrasebook into a single link to Serbo-Croatian. I understand the languages are very similar, and as a group known as "Serbo-Croatian", but that page is a disambiguation page. The reader who clicks on that link is left still not knowing which page to go to from there. Powers (talk) 21:05, 13 February 2016 (UTC)
 * The subject is also possibly political as during the existence of Yugoslavia those were considered a single language whereas today most governments in the region claim them to be separate languages. I'm no linguist and this is not an area on which WV should focus, but we should find some way of dealing with this Hobbitschuster (talk) 09:59, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bavaria


text:
Talk:Bavarian cuisine

New items
Please only add new items if you can explain them and add a comment if they are local specialities. --(WT-en) Flip666 19:04, 8 April 2006 (EDT)flip

Vegatarian
Bavaria is not really a vegetarian-friendly country. If you want to add a dish to this list make sure it is really Bavarian and not something a restaurant manager decided to be hip at this moment. --(WT-en) Flip666 19:10, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

Bavarian beer
Copied from Talk:Bavarian beer prior to deleting:

For a discussion whether this should be a separate article see the Bavarian Beer discussion --(WT-en) Flip666 11:55, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

I don't think that is an article according to our policy. Information relevant to travellers should probably be placed into the Bavaria article instead. Otherwise, it'd possibly fit Wikipedia best. --(WT-en) Ricardo (Rmx) 18:00, 7 April 2006 (EDT)

Yup, I made a comment regarding this and Bavarian food on the contibutors talk page. So much good info, it would be a shame for it to be outside the guides. (WT-en) Majnoona 18:12, 7 April 2006 (EDT)

 * Ok, but I would like to continue writing it as a separate article an when it is nearly finished decide, if I put it on the Bavaria or the Munich article. The problem is, often Bavaria is reduced to Upper Bavaria and Franconia is forgotten. The local specialities are often different. If we cannot find someone who writes about Franconia maybe we should put it in the Munich article because as I live in Munich I cannot say much about Franconia... --(WT-en) Flip666 11:52, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

 * I think there's definitely a place in Wikivoyage for this kind of article, especially for types of cuisine and food. I'd say it's a localized travel topic targeted towards a specific group of people -- people who take beer seriously. I'd compare Malaysian and Singaporean cuisine as another example. I think it's travel-related. I think we could have a summary on Bavaria, but for the nitty-gritty details move them to another page. I'm not sure it would make sense for every destination or region (do we need Guadalajara beer? Yemeni beer?) but it may be useful here. Let's see how it develops. --(WT-en) Evan 12:13, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

 * As the main author of Malaysian and Singaporean cuisine I don't disagree entirely, but there's a definitely slippery slope here and I think this article is sliding a bit too far down it. Could we just standardize on allowing a Bavarian cuisine, or any other "X cuisine"? (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:20, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

 * Jpatokal makes an excellent point. Bavaria as a whole is quite unusual as far as German states go. Bavarians have a strong connection with the past and traditions and even have some unusual foods that are a bit harder to find in other German localities and states like Oxenscwanzsuppe (Ox tail soup). I think this would best fit under Bavarian food, because these beers and cuisine are Bavarian originals and specialities. (WT-en) Sapphire 12:24, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

political correct
Quote: Neger (meaning "Negro" and it is politically correct to use this word in Germany) Weißbier mixed with coke

It is not political correct to say "Neger" in germany. anyway, it is used in some regions (bavaria...) and by some type of people... "Diesel" is another name for that type of beermix.

Source: --(WT-en) Raffael
 * http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neger
 * http://www.bpb.de/themen/JSTLBP,0,0,Don%B4t_You_Call_Me_Neger.html

 * I should have written "in this context it is political correct". "Diesel" is never used in Bavaria. --(WT-en) Flip666 04:25, 9 April 2006 (EDT)

Making this article less encyclopedic and more travel-related
I think the most obvious way to make this topic more travel-related and less like a Wikipedia article is to give examples of eateries that are particularly famous for various listed foods (e.g., "Kalter Braten is cold Schweinsbraten (roasted pork) cut in thin slices usually served with bread and horseradish. A, B and C in X, Y, and Z are particularly well known for their Kalter Braten.") and also mention where the Brauhäuser for different beers are, with links to articles that have entries for them. For example, I know several of the beers listed under "Brands" have Brauhäuser in Munich. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:18, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

 * The other thing would be to describe the experience of dining and drinking in different kinds of establishments more, so prospective visitors know what to expect and can maximize their enjoyment. Also, things like meal times and dining etiquette, when not specific to Bavaria, can be addressed by referring readers to German cuisine. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:45, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Wrong categorization?
I would categorize this as a travel concern if I were a vegertarian ;), however for most people I would say Travel_activities is a better category. Any objections? Andrewssi2 (talk) 12:21, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, Bavarian and other cuisines are definitely experiences, not concerns. Maybe we should place the whole Food category elsewhere and use it to describe food and drink experiences and put Kosher and Vegetarian travel right under Concern (as there are just two of them).
 * I created a heading under Travel activities for now: Travel_activities
 * What are you suggesting for this categorization? A new article or perhaps a category template? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:56, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
 * We could arrange Food (maybe rename it Food & Drink or something) under Travel activities and use it for Bavarian cuisine, Coffee, other cuisines etc., and move the two food concerns we currently have right under concern. It's a bit silly to have a Food category for just two articles, as is the case now. ϒpsilon (talk) 04:52, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Yup, already done in Travel_activities . Are we good to change the category now? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:25, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * If nobody objects, yes. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:53, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

"Unstained"
I'm not sure what the original author meant, but Kellerbier and Zwickl are usually characterized by the fact that they are not filtrated, i.e. they have a shorter shelf life but still contain more of the stuff originally in the beer. Mass market beers are all invariably filtrated which has no upside besides a clearer color and longer shelf life, but makes for a less healthy and less tasty (in the most literal sense - substances that give the beer any taste at all are removed) beer overall. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:15, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

 * "Unstrained" was probably the intended word, but "unfiltered" would be the word I'd use. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:29, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

 * There is also the German word ungespundet which IIRC means a certain hole in the barrel is left open so that the beer ultimately contains little to no CO2. But don't ask me what that means in English or which beers generally fall under this term. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:32, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Sorry,I misspelled it. "Unstrained" is correct for "unfiltriert" or "naturtrüb" beer. "Ungespundetes Kellerbier" is a special kind of that, but I also don't know what "ungespundet" is in English. Meanwhile many german breweries have "Naturtrübes" or "Unfiltriertes" but only a few of them are also really "Kellerbier". Sometimes there is a kind of "false labelling": They call beers Kellerbier which are unstrained but not "ungespundet". But of course "Kellerbier" is not a protected name. It is both used for many kinds of "unfiltriertes" beer and for these special franconian ones. The best way is: come and taste it! ManfredV (talk) 09:07, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

 * Well at any rate we should link to Breweries in Franconia. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:29, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

Definitely yes! It is a wonderful page which gives a lot of informations about breweries mainly in Upper Franconia. Unfortunately some breweries and brewery inns of Middle Franconia aren't listed. Buts thats a good reason for travelling and finding out!ManfredV (talk) 10:12, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

 * Should every single brewery be listed, though? And on the rate of traveling, I'm not sure we're currently doing a good enough job of telling people how to get from A to B in that article (notice the redlinks, so people for the most part won't be able to go to the city articles for that information) Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:21, 13 March 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bavarian cuisine


text:
Talk:Baviaans

Please note that some of the information on this page is taken directly from the site http://www.travelbaviaans.co.za/ beacuse I am the official public realtions officer for the Cacadu District Municipality and therefore have to use their information on our WikiTravel pages.

The Cacadu district in the Eastern Cape of South Africa includeds Addo, the Baviaans, Grahamstown, Jeffreys Bay & St Francis, the Karoo, the Sunshine Coast and Tsitsikamma

The information also has a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 2.5 South Africa License.

title: Talk:Baviaans


text:
Talk:Bay Area

Tiburon
Maj: do you really think Tiburon is a "major city" in the Bay Area? San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose, Tiburon? It's listed under Marin County, by the way. -- (WT-en) Evan 15:47, 8 Nov 2003 (PST)

 * It's actually more of a tourist destination than a lot of Bay Area cities. It gets loads of tour buses and day trippers from SF, many of whom have never heard of Marin County. But if it bugs, nix it. (WT-en) Majnoona

Mendocino town
Mendocino is already listed on the North Coast (California). I think northern Sonoma County, Mendocino County, Humboldt County and the like are physically and culturally distinct from the Bay Area. If that's not right, we need to amend the regions list on California. --(WT-en) Evan 18:38, 14 Mar 2004 (EST)

 * OK, I agree. I found it on the orphans list and just wanted to stick it somewhere... I was thinking the "get out" part of SF... I'll nix it from Bay Area... (WT-en) Majnoona 19:06, 14 Mar 2004 (EST)

Proposed addition: South Bay
I'm proposing adding a South Bay (Bay Area) region. Please Talk:Fremont for a discusion. -- (WT-en) Colin 00:42, 2 Apr 2004 (EST)

restructure
Instead of East Bay (Bay Area), why not Bay Area/East Bay?

 * Does Project:Article naming conventions answer this for you, or do you have something else in mind? For South Bay, there are more than one in California which is why it's disambiguated with Bay Area. I'm not sure East Bay needs to be disambiguated with anything more than California, but it's a nice symmetry. -- (WT-en) Colin 02:33, 8 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * Seems like Bay Area/East Bay and Bay Area/South Bay are cleaner than the present. Plus they are like districts (see article naming conventions). (WT-en) Goodralph 02:44, 8 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * Well, a couple things:
 * The East Bay is a sub-region, which has pretty clear guidelines in the current conventions.
 * For the most part, only the "East Bay" text should be shown to the user. The disambig part is normally hidden in links.  For example: East Bay links to East Bay (Bay Area).
 * We want consistency though this guide, so we should follow the conventions.
 * If you want to discuss changing the current conventions, the place to take that up is probably Project:Article naming conventions so that we can be consistent throughout the guide.
 * So really, my only strong opinion here is that we should be consistent, and I'll leave others to decide what makes sense for the conventions to be. -- (WT-en) Colin 03:10, 8 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * Goodralph: the East Bay isn't a district in a city; it's a sub-region of the Bay Area region. For articles in the geographical hierarchy, we use disambiguators for everything down to the city level, and sub-pages after that. The point is to make URLs and page names as short as possible while still maintaining uniqueness. It'd be miserable to write out North America/United States of America/California/Bay Area/East Bay each time you wanted a link to the East Bay. There's some info on this at Project:article naming conventions. --(WT-en) Evan 10:09, 8 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Okay, I've done it now. South Bay is added. Technically, Silicon Valley should be removed since it duplicates cities already found in other regions. But can we keep it anyway? Traveller's might look for it and be troubled when they don't find it. -- (WT-en) Colin 03:56, 15 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Gilroy?
Some stuff moved from User talk:(WT-en) Chipuni:
 * So how do we categorize Gilroy into the heirarchy? I see you wrote "near Monterey Bay" and included it into Monterey Bay, but it seems kinda fuzzy.   We have a few cities I'm not sure what to do with: Gilroy (California), Morgan Hill, Hollister, and San Juan Bautista.  The first two I tend to think of as Bay Area (California), but not the second two.  Should we stuff em all into Monterey Bay?  Should we create Southern Santa Clara Valley in the Bay Area (California) and stick Morgan Hill and Gilroy in?  Stick just Morgan Hill into South Bay (Bay Area)?  Or what? (Note: Gilroy's city home page describes them as being "a short drive from the Bay Area and Monterey Bay" so maybe it wants to be in a more general page?) -- (WT-en) Colin 01:42, 22 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * Sorry to jump in, but would you mind moving this to Talk:Bay Area (California)? I think it would be of interest to others involved in the Bay Area stuff... it's a good question. I wrote part of the "Best of the Bay" article for the San Jose Metro a few years ago and I was assigned "Southern Santa Clara" which included Morgan Hill, San Martin, and Gilroy. Hollister is trickey too, I'd say it's part of the Coast, but it should probably be mentioned on the "Get out" section for whatever Morgan Hill/Gilroy ends up on... (WT-en) Majnoona 10:35, 22 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Okay, I've moved us here :-). Thanks for pointing out San Martin which I forgot.  I could buy Hollister and San Juan Bautista as Central Coast, and everything from San Jose to Gilroy as SFBay.  Anyone else have opinions? -- (WT-en) Colin 12:28, 22 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * Don't know that part of CA well enough to have an opinion on individual cities, but if there is some ambiguity surely the best thing to do is to accept it and reflect it. In other words include a link to the ambiguous cities in both region's 'Cities' section (with a comment on the ambiguity), and in the header para of the city say something like:

 * AmbiguousCity is on the borders of Region1 and Region2.

 * There is no good reason I can see why wikivoyage needs to have absolutely clear cut and precisely defined regional boundaries; we are to large extent describing peoples perceptions not trying to define congressional districts. Thats another good reason for not using sub-pages at this level, to add to the one Evan quotes above. -- (WT-en) Chris j wood 16:34, 22 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * According to Mapquest, Gilroy is 32 miles from San Jose, and 40 miles from Monterey. In other words... about as equidistant as you can get.  I have no problems with saying that Gilroy is on the borders of Silicon Valley and the Monterey area of California.  (I put it in the Monterey area because, at the time, I thought that it was closer to Monterey than it was.  I should have checked.)  (WT-en) Chip 00:36, 23 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * It's certainly closer to Monterey Bay than the SF Bay. Geographically though, the path to the SF Bay is easier, and the commuters tend to go there.  I kinda like the idea of putting it into both, but I thought that was against our usual policy. -- (WT-en) Colin 00:59, 23 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Is Vallejo in the Bay Area
Can some local person answer as to whether Vallejo would normally be considered part of the Bay Area. Having just added the Vallejo Baylink ferry to the Get in section of San Francisco, I've just noticed that Vallejo is in Solano County and hence by the current definition within this article, not in the Bay Area. As a visitor to the area, this seems counter-intuitive. -- (WT-en) Chris j wood 05:40, 13 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Ok. Obviously no local knowledge is listening, so I'm going to take the advice of Wikipedia (first paragraph of article at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_area) that Solano county is part of the Bay area. I have added Solano and Vellejo.

However I'm also concious that Wikipedia gives a slightly different story in when describing subregions. There it groups all of Marin county with the south of Napa, Solano and Sonoma counties into a North Bay region. This seems to me to be a better approach than ours, as 'North Bay' is a more obvious name for visitors than the county names, and it also expresses the view that only the southern bits of the large Napa/Solano/Sonoma counties are really Bay Area. I'm minded to adopt this, but again I don't know how it plays with the local viewpoint; so I'm inviting discussion again. -- (WT-en) Chris j wood 06:45, 19 Sep 2004 (EDT)

I am an urban planner in the bay area and used to live in Vallejo. I would consider Vallejo part of the bay area and more specifically, part of the "North Bay" as you indicated above. Hope that helps

Eliminate counties as sub-regions of the Bay Area?
I'm very new to this wiki, so perhaps I've openened a can of worms (or worse yet an old debate) - but that's why we can revert to an earler version, right?

Locals tend to think of the Bay Area in terms of five sub-regions: the City, plus the North Bay, East Bay, South Bay and the Peninsula. I think that as sub-regions, counties are redundant and less informative than the five sub-regions. In my most recent edit, I've pointed out that these are actually aligned pretty closely with county boundaries and telephone area codes. For a traveler to the Bay Area, the county you're in is only relevant for a few things - emergency services, parks and recreation, and some public transportation services.

Lastly, it makes sense to include the nearby areas that are 1) accessible day trips by car from the Bay Area and 2) locales where a substantial number of residents commute into the Bay Area for work or school. These nearby areas would include Pacifica, Half Moon Bay and the coast; Santa Cruz (coast and mountains); Napa and Sonoma; and the nearby locales of the Central Valley (Mt. Diablo, Tracy). More distant towns (Monterey, Stockton/Modesto/Madera/Fresno, and Mendocino) would be too far for inclusion.

If we were to eliminate counties as sub-regions, the 5 sub-regions and nearby areas would give a complete and sufficient organization of the geography of the Bay Area, with no overlap among sub-regions. The list of cities would be longer for each sub-region, but that's a small price. We would still have to address questions of nomenclature, such as what's really in "Silicon Valley", and whether the Sonoma Valley is in "Napa."

This is a fairly substantial change, and I thought some other wikivoyagers would have some good ideas.(WT-en) Rpetersen 09:05, 25 Apr 2005 (EDT)

 * The problem is the colloquial names for the regions are imprecise. Where does the Penninsula end and the South Bay start?  Fremont is categorized in East Bay sometimes (craigslist) and South Bay at other times (most weather forecasts).  Also, East Bay is pretty vague since it's fricken huge compared to Penninsula.  I'm not saying I have a better idea...  but it's nice to get precise like Ryan did with the California regions where he uses the ca.gov maps to define the regions and ca.gov defines them completely and unambiguously.  I'm actually leaning towards using Counties just because it's more precise than the language used by the residents. -- (WT-en) Colin 17:20, 5 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * It probably wouldn't be too tough to do the same thing with the Bay Area that was done for California, and just create a map that delineates what Wikivoyage defines as the East Bay, South Bay, etc. County articles would still be useful, but since the colloquial names are more commonly used we would then have a way of specifically determing whether Fremont is South Bay or East Bay. -- (WT-en) Wrh2 19:21, 5 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Reporter wants to talk to editors
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A foot in both boats
So, with Breadcrumb navigation coming in, we need to make some decisions about the Bay Area. We've got two different sets of regions for this article: counties, and more fuzzy names. I'm in favor of just using counties, since there's less subjectivity in where towns and such go, and most local people know the names. --(WT-en) Evan 00:22, 11 Dec 2005 (EST)

 * While it won't be perfect, I think the round counties can be pretty much hammered into the square holes of the regions. We have a similar problem with the CA Regions which are also not perfectly aligned along county boundaries.  (For example, Solano County contains Rio Vista and Vacaville which are clearly in the Sacramento Valley and Vallejo which most people would put in the Bay Area (California),   -- (WT-en) Colin 00:27, 11 Dec 2005 (EST)

Santa Cruz County?
Santa Cruz seems to be outside the Bay Area to me. Why was it added? --(WT-en) Evan 23:13, 28 June 2006 (EDT)
 * See Talk:California -- (WT-en) Colin 23:24, 28 June 2006 (EDT)

Microclimates
For those of us from the East coast were not used to traveling 11 miles and having the temperature be 10 degrees lower, it can leave us unprepared; I was thinking of adding "==Understand== The weather in the Bay Area is affected by microclimates, so certain parts East Bay can be up to 15 degrees warmer than downtown San Francisco, and as much as 20 degrees warmer than the area around the Golden Gate bridge. Generally the closer to the ocean one goes the cooler it is, it is suggested that one keep that in mind when travelling around the area." --65.242.127.130 16:32, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

 * Go ahead. Upper 50s in Pacifica can happen with 100s in Antioch. -- (WT-en) Colin 16:36, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

Hollister is considered the bay area
Moved from Hollister is bay area by (WT-en) Ryan:

Hollister California is a city in San Benito county of the border of Santa Clara county.It is about 19 to 21 miles to Gilroy For bieng so close to the border they considerite the S.F bay area.It is in the south bay area regoin. Santa Cruz, Hollister,and Watsonville are the towns that are considered the bay area. For geographle reasons and county reasons.

 * See Talk:California, the discussion about Gilroy (above) and other discussions for reasons why the divisions within California have been drawn as they are. To summarize the arguments, there isn't a breakdown that everyone can agree to, so we've tried to organize the state into useful sub-divisions for travelers that as much as possible match known divisions.  For our purposes just about everything south of San Jose is considered Central Coast, which creates a nice division that is reasonably easy to follow for travelers. -- (WT-en) Ryan 16:53, 30 December 2006 (EST)

 * San Benito, Santa Cruz, Monterey, Mendocino, and Lake Counties are often incorrectly lumped into the Bay Area Grouping. I have always understood the formal Bay Area to be the 9 Counties the physically border the bay.  The list in this wiki has Santa Cruz instead of Sonoma which is a mistake.  Santa Cruz County is separated from the rest of the Bay Area Counties by the Santa Cruz Mountains and is located on the northern end of the Monterey Bay, and does not touch the San Francisco Bay.  Hollister and Watsonville are not part of the South Bay, it ends with Gilroy at the Santa Clara County border.  The strict definition is the 9 counties that border the San Francisco (and San Pablo) Bays.  The ones listed above share some proximity to the other counties but are not part of the Bay Area.  Culturally, Santa Cruz has more in common with Monterrey and the Central Coast cities.  Hollister and Watsonville are agricultural communities mostly associated with the Central Coast, not the Bay Area.  Gilroy has a lot in common with these cities, but is technically part of Santa Clara County. Culturally and politically, it is more unlike the other Bay Area cities but is part of geographically.  Because Hollister and Watsonville are like Gilroy, wouldn't make them proxy Bay Area cities. cities. Trevor 12:42, 26 August 2009

Santa Rosa?
Why is Santa Rosa not included in the Bay Area. Why do you cut off northern from Sonoma county. This makes no sense. Everyone knows that Santa Rosa is the main city in the North Bay 707 region. And by the way Marin is the West Bay, why do you think its 415 just like San Francisco. Whoever made this article is a transplant.
 * See Talk:California for discussion of the difficult decisions on region breakdown, and why we chose it. Keep in mind that we need a non-overlapping breakdown for organizing articles, and the words people use for geography tend to overlap.  -- (WT-en) Colin Jensen 13:46, 10 February 2011 (EST)

Sonoma County is (in its entirety) part of the North Bay of the San Francisco region
All of Somoma County is part of the San Francisco Bay Area, and specifically is part of the North Bay (Bay Area), as shown in that article. Unfortunately, the detailed map in this San Francisco Bay Area article shows only the south part of Sonoma County as being in the San Francisco Bay Area. (The high-level map, showing where the Bay Area is within California, does include all of Sonoma County as part of the Bay Area, so the two maps are inconsistent.)

Splitting Sonoma County is absurd - if nothing else, there is (and should be) a single article about Sonoma County. As importantly, no one that I know (I'm a resident of the county) thinks of the county that way - that the north part of the county - for example, Cloverdale, is in the "North Coast".

If someone would fix the detailed map in this article, it would be greatly appreciated. -- John Broughton 16:28, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree with you. I'll post at Wikivoyage talk:Regions map Expedition and see if anyone can help. —Granger (talk · contribs) 22:53, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Updated map is up. Cheers -Shaundd (talk) 17:12, 23 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! —Granger (talk · contribs) 17:20, 23 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bay Area


text:
Talk:Bay Harbor

pics not showing up? --72.87.59.193 15:18, 26 May 2009 (EDT)

 * Refresh your browser window—all the pics have been deleted (as copyright violations) and removed from the article. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:01, 26 May 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Bay Harbor