text:
Talk:Shimla

Reformatting

 * Thanks for adding the listings to the Shimla article. They are really useful - though remember that because of copyright restrictions we cannot copy the text from another source, but have to write everything in our own words. Also, I have made a few edits to the listings you made (take take a look). By the way, there is a discussion on the Delhi Talk page about how to set up the districts. Can you offer any help? I've been to Delhi many times, but I've never taken much notice about the district names, so I'm afraid I cannot help. Take it easy. (WT-en) WindHorse 07:47, 26 January 2007 (EST) Ps. Take a look at Colin's comments below, and try to do that as quickly as possible so that we can avoid possible copyright problems - ok?
 * Thanks for the edit to the monastery, but Nyingma is a school of Tibetan Buddhist, not a style of building - anyway, it was a good idea. (WT-en) WindHorse 08:02, 26 January 2007 (EST)
 * Hey, man, are you copying some of the edits on the Shimla article from a brochure??? As I said above, we have to write aaaaaaaaall our contributions in our words. What's your answer??? (WT-en) WindHorse 08:20, 26 January 2007 (EST)

''Here's my answer - I AM NOT USING ANY BROCHURE. I'm doing random googling to find out the websites and opening hours. And the reviews are from my own travel diary. Don't worry. P.S. I am consulting the web to find out opening hours, entry prices and items on the menu which is fine. All the reviews which I am using are being re-formatted which is within wikivoyage conventions. Upamanyuwikivoyage 09:19, 26 January 2007 (EST)''

OK, but many of the reviews still sound very brochure-like - for example...''Admire the Victorian Architecture, for The Mall retains much of its Raj-era charm....The central area of the mall, flanked by its half-timbered buildings, has always been, and remains its most fahionable area. Home to a profusion of restaurants''... Don't you agree? If you re-format, you have do more than just change a few words, it has to be re-written. Anyway, I'm just letting you know, because if anyone finds that you have copied something, then definitely you'll banned, and there is nothing I can do about it. Take it easy (WT-en) WindHorse 09:32, 26 January 2007 (EST)

 * Listen, here's the original text. I have re-formatted it. The Mall in Shimla is a classic example of Victorian Architecture. The half-timbered buildings in the central section of The Mall retain their Raj-era charm. This area is the poshest neighbourhood in the city, and houses a multitude of stylish restaurants, art galleries and shopping plazas. P.S. Just gloss over the spellings, I tend to use British spellings which apparently isn't the wikivoyage norm. I'm Done with See, Do, Eat & Drink I'll complete the Sleep Listings today evening, that is 12.30 GMT. And The Get Around is blank, Get In is too sparse. Upamanyuwikivoyage 22:18, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Thanks for reporting back. To be honest I'm not 100% sure of the rules concerning reformatting, but what you have written does seem far enough from the original for it not to contravene copyright laws, though I'm not so comfortable with it.... Let's see if anyone else can offer a more in depth appraisal (I'll add the dialogue to the Shimla Talk page). Anyway, the Shimla article does look much better. Thanks for your efforts. (WT-en) WindHorse 04:12, 27 January 2007 (EST)

I'd agree - the original and "rewritten" text seem far too similar to me. It's not enough to just change a few words in a sentence; if you find a description of a place that is four sentences long and you simply copy those four sentences and shuffle a few words it's still copying. My advice would be if you can't write clearly original work, using external sites as references only, then it's better to wait for others to make original contributions. In the mean time add your own contributions for places you are familiar with! -- Ryan 04:15, 27 January 2007 (EST)

Hey Upamanyuwikivoyage - Based on my own gut feelings and Ryan's input, I think that the Shimla text needs to be written - which I'll do. Then, in the future, please write any contributions in your words. Don't worry that the grammar is not 100% correct. It will get cleaned up at some point. OK? Anyway, keep going. You are doing fine, and it is good that you checking back with us about your contributions. In that way, we can avoid future problems. WindHorse 04:24, 27 January 2007 (EST)

 * Hey windhorse, you are not following the MoS for the See listings. The opening hours come immediatly after the address/phone no. After that, there is a full stop - you are using a dash instead. User:(WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage.

P.S. I wrote a comment on your talk page about the same thing, but had not signed in.
 * Yes, I often over use the dash. Thanks for the reminder (WT-en) WindHorse 08:11, 27 January 2007 (EST)

 * No problem. I'm now strictly following the wikivoyage MoS for listings, I wasn't following it in the Pune article. Shimla looks much better, do you think it deserves a guidecity status?? -- (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 22:54, 27 January 2007 (EST)

 * Did you write the last two edits yourself? I agree that they look good, but if they are copied and just reformatted then they will contravene copy right laws and will have to be deleted. When we create something, it should be done to benefit everyone, not just to satisfy ourselves. Imagine if you had spent a lot of time creating something and then found that someone had copied it without your permission; you'd probably feel cheated and unhappy, wouldn't you? Think of that when you add information to a Wikivoyage article, and don't only consider the quality of the article and your personal satisfaction. That is only half of the picture. Don't you agree? Anyway, I'll ask you again: Did you write the last two edits yourself or did you copy them and reformat. If they were copied and reformatted, then consider what I have explained above and please delete them and rewrite the information in your own words. Don't worry about the grammar. It will get corrected later. OK? Thanks. (WT-en) WindHorse 07:22, 29 January 2007 (EST)

 * The last two edits were written myself, based on what one of my friends there told me. That OK with you. User:(WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage

Here is the text which I copied from wikipedia. It was an accident, I didn't know that wikivoyage can't use GDFL text - Ryan told me about it later, so I copied and pasted it here temporarily. Please try to re-format it so that we can use it again. I deleted the text from the Shimla article.

''Sitting majestically above the searing plains, Shimla (Hindi: िशमला, Urdu: شملہ) was the summer capital of the erstwhile British Raj in India. Nestled in the middle Himalayas in northern India, Shimla is a hill station destination much beloved by honeymooners and other tourists, particularly in summer.

As of the 2001 India census, Shimla had a population of 142,161. The majority of the population consists of natives of Himachal Pradesh and a minority migrated from what is now Pakistan during the partition of India. Hindi, Punjabi and Pahadi (the local dialect of Hindi) are the main languages.'' (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 13:42, 30 January 2007 (EST)

And here's some more. ''Shimla district is located in the middle western ranges of the Himalayas. This region has a hilly terrain and has an uneven cover of evergreen pine forests. The Shimla city spreads over the hill at an average altitude of 2000 meters (roughly 6500 feet) above mean sea level.''

And the table is very useful, but I don't see why we should delete that, maybe change the text a little bit. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 13:45, 30 January 2007 (EST)

Images
I know that I lied about the image last time. I'm just going to publicly declare that all 3 images on this page are from wikipedia and are either licensed under CCSA or dual-licensed under GDFL & CCSA. If you still have your doubts, you can check the link in the image summary. I have also credited the photographer, so there has been no copyright violation this time. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 13:28, 30 January 2007 (EST)
 * Wow - you are smart. Are you sure you only 13? (WT-en) WindHorse 21:27, 30 January 2007 (EST) Ps. Image looks good.

Thanks. You don't believe that I'm 13, look in your talk page - I've given the email IDs of some of my classmates, just email them and ask.

(i'd forgotten to sign my name). (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 02:54, 31 January 2007 (EST)

 * Added two more images. Hope they look good. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 11:15, 31 January 2007 (EST)

Get Around
Hey wikivoyagers, please try and add a map to Get Around, it is simply too sparse. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 22:54, 27 January 2007 (EST)

Phone nos.
Shimla phone nos. can be very confusing. The main thing to remember is that the nos. at the local level have seven digits. However, if any one of you find a number with 6 digits, please change it to seven by adding a 2 in front. The six digit nos. were the old norm, but all nos. in the country were prefixed by a 2, 4 or 5 in 2005, as per Govt regulations. In Himachal Pradesh, only the prefix 2 is used.

eg. 91 177 456778 (old no.) +91 177 245-6778 (new, according to listings

Mobile numbers can be very confusing, but most have 10 digits, here's the correct format.

+91 xxxxx-xxxxx                   -- (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 23:05, 27 January 2007 (EST)

Anything left??
Is there anything that's missing from the article?? (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 03:20, 31 January 2007 (EST)

 * I seriously reckon this article has star potential. The main problem, as always (sigh!!!) is a MAP. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 1 February 2007 (EST)

A few things:

 * Listings should be templatized

 * Perhaps the mentions of things like the bookstores in the buy section should be made into proper listings with full contact details like address and phone#'s. I know Shimla is tiny, but people tend to want these things when we vote for Star status.

 * Official websites should only be listed once, in the article intro

 * Contact details for the Gaiety Theatre, the zoo and ice skating rink(s), if they exist. I know one of them is down near Hotel White and the bus stand, are there others?

That's what I can think of at the moment, heading to bed! Good work so far on this article, you're really making it look great! (WT-en) - Cacahuate 04:35, 19 February 2007 (EST)

 * Hey Cacahuate, I'll address your queries one-by-one.

 * 1) Listings should be templatized - I'm afraid I don't quite understand you. Do you mean they should follow the MoS?? Well, they do!! I have strictly followed Project:Listings.
 * 2) Perhaps the mentions of things like the bookstores in the buy section should be made into proper listings with full contact details like address and phone#'s. I know Shimla is tiny, but people tend to want these things when we vote for Star status. - I have mentioned the address of both the places. For antiques and rare books, visit Maria Bros. in the central section of the Mall, close to Baljees. If you are looking for fiction or novels, Minerva Book House at Hotel Minerva (tel:91 177 225-2043) has a good collection. Maria Bros does not have a phone, I have been there twice and have never spotted one. Google does not show any results either. I have already included the phone# of Minerva Book House. I don't want to make it into a proper listing because I don't have the opening hours of either place.
 * 3) Official websites should only be listed once, in the article intro - sure, I'll change it as soon as I can. However, can't the tourist sites come in the Understand#Tourist Info section??
 * 4) Contact details for the Gaiety Theatre, the zoo and ice skating rink(s), if they exist. I know one of them is down near Hotel White and the bus stand, are there others? - am trying to find phone nos. Gaiety theatre has no contact details other than the address, The Mall.

 * 1. I mean using the new listings tags that are starting to be implemented... when you're editing a page, scroll down to the box below the "Save page" button... there's various ones for attractions, restaurants, etc... they look like:
 * *
 * 2. That's fine for now, but when it's going through the star nomination process it will have to be made into a proper listing... so the lack of information can either be fixed now, or become a stumbling block for the article then...
 * 3. I would say unless there's a specific reason to list them again there, we should just leave it at being listed once, in the intro... an example of where I just listed one again later in an article would be at Pakistan, where I linked directly to the authorized tour agencies.
 * 4. No problem, I understand that many places might not have phones, etc, but if they do we should get the info... I only point it out since these are the kinds of things people will bring up when it gets legitimately nominated for star status...

 * Hope that helps! (WT-en) - Cacahuate 20:22, 19 February 2007 (EST)

 * First of all, thanks for all your inputs. Secondly, I just wanted to inform you that my guidebook says for more info, contact the Forest Officer of The Municipal Corporation of Shimla. His phone no. is 265-2911. This is confirmed via the guidebook as well as google. I suppose it can be included, right?? I'm adding it for the time being. :) (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 08:07, 20 February 2007 (EST)

Grumble grumble
So, I just read the article with a view of visiting Shimla, and the following questions remain unanswered: Don't answer here -- edit the article! (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:40, 22 February 2007 (EST)
 * How long does the "toy train" from Kalka take, how often does it run, what is it like, and is there a real name for it?
 * Who operates the flights to Junnabhurti?
 * Lower Bazaar mentions "Shimla speciality dishes". What are they?
 * Rs 8000 is midrange!?!? In India anything above US$100 (RS. 4000) is most definitely Splurge territory, and this change I've done myself.

(moved from User_talk:Jpatokal)

Jani, is Rs 1000 and below budget in India?? Ever been to Bombay or Pune?? Check out Mumbai/Western Suburbs (written by Ravikiran). Splurge essentially means 5 star and whether you like it or not, 5 stars in India are quite expensive and stuff below Rs 8000 will fall under the midrange category. Midrange options in India are often 10-20 times as much as a hostel's rates, but that's simply because rates in India are extreme. Even a Calcuttan (Kolkata is one of the cheapest cities in the country) will laugh at someone placing a Rs3000 hotel in the splurge category. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 05:01, 23 February 2007 (EST)

I'm trying to address your grumble-grumbles on Shimla. Jagson operates the flights from Chandigarh and Indira Gandhi International. The train takes 5 - 6 hours, Windhorse has added the schedule of trains from Kalka to Shimla. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 05:01, 23 February 2007 (EST)

 * That pricerangebox is for Shimla, not all India. In the vast majority of the country, you can get a guesthouse room for under Rs.300 and a mid-range hotel (one/two stars) for Rs.1000-2000.  Having spent the past 6 months in Gurgaon, and the past two hours searching for a halfway decent hotel room under an hour's commute from NOIDA, I'm painfully aware that prices in the metros are crazy in the upper price bracket -- but you can still get a dorm bed in Paharganj for Rs.50.

 * Hey,Mr. Jani, I didn't mean to sound rude or anything. If I did, I just want to point out that no offence was meant okay. BTW, Shimla has a lot of mid-range accomodation(Rs 2500-3000) and most of it is concentrated on Cart Road and The Mall(especially the Eastern bit).

P.S. Hey, please don't refer to me as my little spoiled boy - I repeat, I'm sorry, I agree I crossed the limits of decency. I'm copying this onto your talk page. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 08:29, 23 February 2007 (EST)

 * My comment removed, it was uncalled for — sorry. (Although I still haven't forgiven you over that picture incident.) (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:04, 23 February 2007 (EST)
 * That's okay, I agree that the pic incident was well....extremely wrong of me. It's just that I really got mad at Sapphire when he used swear words on my talk page (well, swear words by Indian standards) and I let out my anger on you. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 05:08, 24 February 2007 (EST)

 * If it really is the case that Shimla has no mid-range accommodation — which I doubt, as TripAdvisor shows lots in the ~$50 range -- then you should say so and leave the section empty, not pretend that US$200/night is "mid-range". (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:57, 23 February 2007 (EST)

 * Quite right. While checking for a place to stay in the Andamans, I found that the absolutely top of the line Fortune resort charged something like 5K and and above 1K was mid-range. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 06:04, 23 February 2007 (EST)

 * That's absolutely true. 5,000/6,000rs + in Shimla and other places (except Bangalore, which is especially expensive) can get a room in a standard five star. 1,000 - 2,000rs + is the going rate for most one or two star places, and 2,500rs + can easily get a room in a three star hotel. Shimla has a lot of mid range accommodation (mostly in the smaller roads leading from the Mall). I just cannot remember the names. (WT-en) WindHorse 07:40, 23 February 2007 (EST)

 * Ok guys, but I'm not comfortable with 4000, that is real cheap for a splurge hotel, it's about 95 US dollars. I'm making it 6000. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 04:55, 28 February 2007 (EST)

Jpatokal, just 1 doubt, you had said that (I quote) In India anything above US$100 (RS. 4000) is most definitely Splurge territory. Well, why did you say that 4000+ = splurge applies for the whole country, in places like Bombay only 9000+ is splurge. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 04:55, 28 February 2007 (EST)
 * Upamanyu, what is the point of cross examining people like this? This is not a law court. It is quite clear that Jani meant most of India when he said "India". If it wasn't clear the first time, it should have been clear from his subsequent comment where he accepted that Mumbai and Delhi were exceptions. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 07:27, 28 February 2007 (EST)
 * OK, ravi, I'll stop it. Sorry Jani, end of matter ok. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 04:28, 1 March 2007 (EST)

Pronunciation and name
Shimla is pronounced as [ʃɪmla] and not [ʃɪml]

First line should look something like this: (not exactly like this, as this contains inline Wikipedia links)

Shimla (pronunciation [ʃɪmla]) (Hindi: िशमला)

The Hindi Article too needs to be updated, which has been titled िशमल instead of िशमला.

(Actually, I am surprised to see this error. People from Shimla (India?) not editing? No one looks up Wikipedia? :-) )

122.162.69.147 20:13, 19 July 2007 (EDT)
 * Thanks for the information. I've changed the Hindi name accordingly. However, Wikivoyage does not use the international phonetic alphabet as it is not so common, and many people are unfamiliar with the symbols. Anyway, in the future if you find information that is out of date, please feel free to Plunge forward and correct it. Before doing so, however, I recommend that you briefly review some of our policies: Project:Manual of style. Thanks. If you have any questions, you are welcome to ask me or any of the other regular contributors. (WT-en) WindHorse 23:24, 19 July 2007 (EDT)

 * And please feel free to help out over on the Hindi version... it's still very new, and yes, I've been doing a lot of the editing, and my Hindi is pretty tragic! – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 00:11, 20 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Thanks for making the changes. I shall go through the policies before making edits directly. Also, the Hindi article needs to be moved: to  and then instructions about changing old links here need to be followed. But I can't find a link to "Move a page" in the English Wikivoyage (as mentioned in Project:How_to_rename_a_page), nor an equivalent link in the Hindi one. 122.162.69.147 16:43, 21 July 2007 (EDT)

 * The 'move' tab is on the top a page (article, discussion, edit+, history, move, watch).--(WT-en) Wandering 16:56, 21 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Indeed... however the problem is that anonymous users can't move pages, which is why you don't see the "move" tab... have you considered creating a user account? I've moved the Hindi article, thanks for pointing that out! – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 18:07, 21 July 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Shimla


text:
Talk:Shimoda

Looks like the normal one-way fare with express increased to 6,330. -Remi

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Shimoda


text:
Talk:Shimonoseki

Tone
An anonymous user has insisted a couple of times that the fugu section is condescending, Orientalist (presumably in the Edward Said sense of the word), etc. — rather strong words to throw at the likes of a Simpsons reference. If he or she would care to elaborate, please do, but bear in mind Wikivoyage's emphasis on lively writing (and differences from Wikipedia-style encyclopedic writing). (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 00:08, 17 August 2010 (EDT)

 * Changing "Fugu: so life-threatening, but so delicious" to "One of a great many varieties of fugu. Poison levels vary depending on species." is a clear violation of our Project:Tone policy. Furthermore, even if there is little to fear, that is no reason to de-emphasize the danger part of the meal. It is both more interesting reading, as well as a bit of insight into Japanese culture—that is, there is a clear element of bushido philosophy in the lack of regard for the poison of the fish, and the emphasis on the immediacy of now and unquestioning courage rather than the potential consequences of the meal involved. In any rate, I'd encourage the anon to stop being a wet blanket, and work on productive activity that does not involve simply watering down others' lively, creative prose with lifeless, boring platitudes. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:01, 17 August 2010 (EDT)

 * It's not condescending; just a cute anecdote/pop culture reference off to the side. Being outside of the main text, it's not interrupting the flow or more travel-oriented description in the eat section. At worst, it's cheesy, but personally I think it's a nice example of lively writing that is also in good taste. In no way does it portray Japan, the Japanese, or Shimonoseki in a bad light; the joke is about Homer (or actually Mrs. Krabappel). Besides, the Japanese are also familiar with the Simpsons. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 01:52, 17 August 2010 (EDT)

 * Hi, I'm the anonymous guy who's been editing. I apologize for coming across as heavy-handed; I honestly want what's best for the piece. Here's the deal: I really, seriously think it overstates the "daredevil" aspect of eating fugu. That is how FOREIGNERS think about it, but to the average Japanese, it is treated as a gourmet delicacy, not a test of machismo. There are nationwide chains serving fugu. You can get it at nearly any sushi restaurant worth its salt. People don't eat it as a "dare" but rather for special occasions. I actually enjoy the tone of your writing and once again apologize for coming across as a doink. But I don't think the Simpsons reference gives anyone any true understanding about the region, animal, or cuisine, and in general I think you are playing up this single aspect of the food too much for laughs -- unless you are silly enough to try preparing it yourself the chances of getting sick are so low as to be almost nonexistent. Japanese aren't crazy -- they wouldn't eat fugu as much as they do if there was a high chance of illness or death. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 175.133.18.15 (talk • contribs)

 * Hmm... There are many Japanese who are afraid to eat fugu, and there are even certain fugu restaurants that are famous because a customer has not yet died by eating their fugu (and I haven't heard of very many of these!). Certainly if these things are true, then the danger exists and the Japanese are not immune to the feeling that it could kill them. Japanese die every year from fugu. Not in mass numbers, but enough to make many of them think twice before ordering it. While there is nothing wrong with your most recent changes, I would say that for the foreigner who will almost surely be unfamiliar with the different types of fugu, it is still best to err on the side of caution and not assume that they are eating a "safe" type of fugu. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 04:30, 17 August 2010 (EDT)

 * "many Japanese who are afraid to eat fugu," ... "even certain fugu restaurants that are famous because a customer has not yet died by eating their fugu" Those are big claims -- can you cite any references for them? If "many" Japanese were afraid to eat fugu, I suspect the "Tecchiri Fugu" (玄品ふぐ） chain wouldn't have shops on seemingly every corner in Tokyo. Nor is there any mention of people eating fugu for sport in the Japanese Wikipedia page on the topic of fugu cuisine : http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/ふぐ料理 —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 175.133.18.15 (talk • contribs)

 * ChubbyWimbus didn't say anything about eating for sport. Let's stick to what's actually been said. There are many Japanese who won't eat fugu — I've met several — and one rather famous Japanese who isn't allowed to eat it whether he wants to or not. The fact that fugu is poisonous is an enormous part of the fish's reputation and notability. (Yosa Buson didn't write that senryū because of the taste.) There's no harm in discussing the poisonous aspects as long as it's followed by sufficient detail about how and why fugu is safe to eat in restaurants.

 * Since you seem interested in elaborating on the different varieties that are served, perhaps you could focus on it from a diner's perspective — how do they differ, taste-wise? Should a traveler expect to have a choice between different varieties of fugu? If so, what should guide their choice? (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 00:38, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

 * Going to a restaurant that serves a dish "many are afraid to eat... because a customer has not yet died there" sounds like sport to me, but focusing on my choice of words avoids the central point I am making: there is a lot of hyperbole and not much substance here.  Rather than focusing on the minor taste differences of fugu subspecies, it's important to note that fugu is a generic term that covers a variety of fish, some poisonous, some not. As stated in the edit, the type most likely to be encountered in restaurants in Shimonoseki is torafugu. My biggest issue is that this piece can't seem to mention fugu without mentioning poison/death in the same breath: it comes up no less than six times, and that's AFTER I proposed some edits. Contrast this to the discussion of why people DO eat it: one lukewarm comment ("underwhelmed"). Devoting so much space to mayhem and so little to the fact that it is considered a gourmet dish strikes me as a missed opportunity. I don't find it underwhelming (the fugu meal I had in Shimonoseki was very eye-opening as to why people eat the dish, personally), and I think from the number of fugu restaurants in Japan that many Japanese don't find it underwhelming either. Have you actually eaten the dish? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 175.133.18.15 (talk • contribs)

 * No, I'm a vegetarian, so I sat idly by while friends had some. You keep straying into hyperbole of your own, which makes it hard to come to any kind of consensus. Let's deal with the actual text. Yes, the dish gets introduced via its most famous aspect. Paragraph 2 then details how it's prepared and why it's safe to eat. Paragraph 3 details forms in which you can order it and where to find it. Paragraph 4 deals with the taste. With many of your edits incorporated, that's one paragraph out of four in the fugu section that has any degree of focus on the poison. So what's the problem? Some people do find the taste underwhelming. You claim that there's "one lukewarm comment" about the taste, but that's clearly false — your addition about maguro is there, the photo caption refers to it as delicious, and the lede calls it irresistible. If you feel the virtues of the taste are still underrepresented, why don't you add some more about the taste? Or add the restaurant at which you had your eye-opening meal?

 * I don't know why you think that the number of fugu restaurants in Japan constitutes irrefutable evidence that the entire nation feels the same way about it. Many Americans think McDonalds is awful, and yet it actually is on almost every street corner of every major city. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 08:17, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

 * Removed Bagdad Cafe, as they have moved and are no longer easy to get to without a car...not much good to tourists.

 * The restaurant I had heard of that no one had been known to die from that chef's fugu was somewhere in Kyushu, but I didn't pay much attention to the name of the restaurant or even where in Kyushu. Japanese were the ones who shared this information, and as soon as one of them said it, the others there also knew of it (they had never eaten fugu because it kills).
 * At any rate, you bring up a lot of general facts about fugu, but what type is Shimonoseki famous for? Is it all types or just the deadly kind? This is the Shimonoseki article, so it needs to stay on-topic rather than encyclopedic. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 23:15, 18 August 2010 (EDT)

 * ChubbyWimbus, please scroll back several paragraphs and re-read. The answer to your question is there.

 * I suspect your never having actually eaten the dish explains some of this, but I think we're talking past each other at this point. That said I acknowledge your comments about my heavy-handedness and hope you acknowledge that although you have chosen not to eat fugu, there are people who do, regularly, and for the flavor and not because its internal organs are poisonous. I think our fundamental disagreement is that I feel you are pandering to a stereotypical and largely foreign image of the cuisine (i.e., the Simpsons quote) where I want to de-mystify and explain a little bit. When we've all cooled off I will make some (conservative, I promise) revisions and hopefully we can find a happy balance then.

 * I've had the fish, and it was quite tasty, albeit not enough to justify the expense (which is generated by the need for chefs who are highly trained to not kill their customers). Despite being a foodie to an extreme degree (read my work on Chicago or D.C.), I had tora fugu almost exclusively because of the mystique/novelty, and my Japanese friends and I had a great time joking about it the whole day long. In a (good) travel guide, the exciting aspects of exploring foreign cultures should be the emphasis, rather than de-mystification (dulling down). --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:18, 19 August 2010 (EDT)

 * Nobody is denying that mystique and novelty play a role in fugu cuisine. That said, this is a culinary tradition with hundreds of years of history. I feel that the original author (who's by his own admission never even eaten it!) plays up the poison aspects to the detriment of actual reporting about the flavor and/or experience of eating it. That's all I've been trying to say. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 175.133.18.15 (talk • contribs)

Nice work with this latest revision! (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 01:37, 22 August 2010 (EDT)

 * Thanks for the kind words, but I still have problems with the Simpsons quote. I could see it potentially appearing in an article about fugu cuisine, but am having a hard time fathoming its connection to Shimonoseki. Could you articulate what this reference brings to the Shimonoseki article, other than showcasing your wit? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 175.133.18.15 (talk • contribs)

 * All things find their highest and most noble purpose as showcases of my wit. The hours and phone numbers of the restaurants, bars, and hotels I added to this article form an even more hilarious showcase of my wit, though the joke requires some familiarity with numerology.

 * The Simpsons connection is to fugu, not Shimonoseki. Yosa Buson wasn't from Shimonoseki either. While someone could theoretically write an article dedicated to fugu tourism as a travel topic, it's not really in the scope of Wikivoyage. Cuisine is generally discussed in the article for the place most strongly associated with it. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 19:07, 24 August 2010 (EDT)

Tokyu Inn
Perhaps the Tokyu Inn hotel has closed or changed names? The company's website doesn't list it, neither does Google Maps. Well, if a person were passing through the city, they could look and we would know for sure. -Douglaspperkins (talk) 11:55, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Shimonoseki


text:
Talk:Simultala

Is Shimultala in Jharkhand or Bihar? The information at the top of the page is conflicting. (WT-en) WindHorse 01:02, 10 January 2007 (EST)

 * Shimultala is in Bihar. Please see for clarification. -- (WT-en) P.K.Niyogi 12:49, 10 January 2007 (EST)

Sleep
Those who are visiting Shimultala may please add names of hotels with telephone numbers and other details. -- (WT-en) P.K.Niyogi 19:56, 26 January 2007 (EST)

Simultala
Tagged for speedy by which I declined. Reason given was: "here's very little info about this place online. There seems to be no tourist infrastructure. It seems to be a tiny hamlet. I edit a lot but have never seen an article about such a small, unknown location with so little concrete information available"

-- SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:00, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * In my opinion, delete after having a look at this place on a map, but it could be merged if there's a suitable article to merge into. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:00, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * After further comments by and, I now vote to keep. , as you tagged this article for speedy deletion, like to comment? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 20:29, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Hi all, thanks for your comments. Its my first time nominating for deletion. After reading the other comments, I'm happy for this article to remain. There do seem to be some cool ruins around the area. I'll try editing to include these and make it read nicer. Sorry to waste your time, I'm happy to keep this article. Sgroey (talk) 21:45, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Keep. Traditionally we don't delete real places, and this article is reasonably well developed and seems to pass the "Sleep" test with three "Sleep" listings. Being a tiny hamlet is not a reason for deletion; see e.g. Childs. If there's not much information about the place online, so much the better – that means Wikivoyage is providing a useful service by giving readers travel information that they can't find elsewhere. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:05, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep, but I am open to being convinced otherwise. This is far from being the least informative article we have. I have added some information since this was nominated, and deleted one inappropriate See listing. Ground Zero (talk) 17:25, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep per others. Doesn't seem like a good deletion candidate. I reserve judgment on whether it would be best to merge it somewhere; that can be discussed on its talk page or the talk page for the region it's breadcrumbed to. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:31, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Outcome: Kept. -- SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:41, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Simultala


text:
Talk:Shinonsen

Destination?
Is this really destination-worthy? We do have a precedent (Guinsa), but I'm not convinced this is of equal importance. (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:54, 4 July 2007 (EDT)

Archived VfD for Antaiji
This is the name of a temple in Shinonsen, Hyogo. It is already mentioned in the Meditation in Japan page. No travel page links to it. Unless someone would rather redirect it (after creating a page for the city), there seems to be no reason to keep this. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 05:41, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

 * Well, it's a destination or part of one, so it should either be turned into a full-fledged article or merged into the one it belongs to. (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:48, 20 May 2009 (EDT)

 * Result: Move to Shinonsen, which now needs to be converted from an article about the temple to one about the destination. (WT-en) LtPowers 21:27, 5 August 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Shinonsen


text:
Talk:Shirahama

When I was there, me and some friends stayed at a decent campsite about 10 minute walk or so to the beach. Early October is fine time to go as the weather is still in the high 20's, but in the Japanese psyche "it is too cold to swim in October." After considerable coaxing, the Japanese folks who came with us were surprised to find that water was actually quite warm

title: Talk:Shirahama


text:
Talk:Shiraz

Appreciate the interesting information about the beautiful Persian city of Shiraz. It was proof of what tolerance and an open mind for other cultures and religions can achieve. Let's hope that one day Shiraz will be able to regain it's exemplary position.

I hope that you will not mind the following remark though. Shiraz was indeed known for it's excellent wines. As I understand it the production of Shirazi wines was interrupted after the Islamic Revolution. It seems that grapes are still grown, though apparently they are now turned into raisins, in stead of wine, or simply eaten as table grapes. The point is that Shirazi wines have in all likelyhood always been white. The syrah grape of course is red. Naturally this in itself does not preclude a white wine, but DNA profiling has given scientific proof that the syrah grape has it's roots in the Rhone valley in France. Thus unfortunately, tempting though the thought may be, the syrah grape and wines have no connection to the city of Shiraz.

 * Please go right ahead and make the necessary corrections to the article yourself! Also, you can sign your posts automatically by typing four tildes ( ~ ) at the end of your comment. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:59, 25 April 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Shiraz


text:
Talk:Shiretoko National Park

Rausu and Utoro
It seems we are listing Shiretoko NP, Rausu, and Utoro all here. Is that desirable? If so, should it be noted? --(WT-en) Orcrist 02:31, 28 July 2011 (EDT)

Personal anecdote
The follow was added about the Shiretoko-Iwaobetsu Youth Hostel on the article page by User:218.186.8.231:

"If u want a budget trip its not exactly cheap compared to the nicer hotels around the area which is only an extra 1000 to 1500 yen more per night.For two person during a night stay,we paid 15700 yen excluding rental of towels costing us 200 yen per piece. If u compare the food,the ambience and the overall experience staying there,all i can tell u is dont ever try its the worst experence one'd ever had. For starters the toilet is shared and has the most foul smell One'd ever encountered.Even the thought of going to the toilet makes one want to puke for days.The bathroom only can only be used from 4pm to 10pm and yet u are paying quite an expensive rate for a hostel accomodation when U cant even maintain ur own personal hygiene.Dinner is not worth the 3000 yen that we paid for it with some cheap vegetables,and cheap meat and burnt fis(One fish shared by two person) served to us. The only most expensive dish was the crab which had to be shared between 6 people. In my opinion its the smallest crab that i have ever seen in Hokkaido. Lastly it felt like i was are in prison where i had to clear the plates my self after paying such a high price for such simple, cheap looking and bad tasting meal! During the night,be prepared for the invasion of bedbugs in your sleeping mattress. If u feel that u have too much blood in ur body and feel like donating some blood do a good deed and go to the hospital instead of giving it away for free to those sick bed bugs!"

(WT-en) Texugo 10:59, 16 January 2011 (EST) ~
 * It seems like things have changed. When I stayed there in 1977 it was very nice.Billposer (talk) 09:27, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Crossing
There is no need to return to retrace your steps on Mt. Rausu. I started from the Iwaobetsu side and descended to Rausu. It seems that few people do this. Of the people who went up when I was there, I was the only one who crossed to Rausu.Billposer (talk) 09:27, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Shiretoko National Park


text:
Talk:Shivpuri

the see section says its a very exciting place to visit yeah what makes it exciting? --72.73.97.14 07:36, 8 March 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Shivpuri


text:
Talk:Shkodër

Attractions
Someone did a bit of work on these but the list is completely pointless without descriptions etc. Removed from the article.
 *

 *

 *

 *

 *

 *

 *

 *

 *

 *

 *

 *

 *

 *

 *

 *

 * <see name="Monumenti At Gjergj Fishta/The monument Father George Fishta" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Monumenti Prek Cali/The monument Prek Cali" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Monumenti Nënë Tereza/The monument Mother Teresa" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Konsullata Austriake/Austrian Consulate" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Konsullata Turke/Turkish Consulate" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Konsullata Italiane/Italian Consulate" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Rektorati	Rectorat" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Universiteti Luigj Gurakuqi/University Luigj Gurakuqi" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Shkolla Mesme 28 Nëntori	Middle School 28 November" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Shkolla Mesme Oso Kuka	Middle School Oso Kuka" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Shkolla Mesme Jordan Misja Middle School Jordan Misja" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="0035522272791" url="" hours="" price="" lat="" long="" email="" fax="">

 * <see name="Shkolla Mesme Kol Idromeno Middle School Kol Idromeno" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">
 * <see name="Shkolla Artistike Prek Jakova	Artistic School Prek Jakova"
 * <see name="Medreseja	Medreseja" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Shkolla Pjetër Mëshkalla	School Peter Mëshkalla" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Fshati i Paqes	Peace Village" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Xhamia Fushë-Qelë	Field-Qelë Mosque" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Xhamia Parrucës	Parrucës Mosque" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Xhamia Bahçallëkut	Bahçallëkut Mosque" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Xhamia Plumbit	Lead Mosque" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Katedralja	Cathedral" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Kisha Zonja e Shkodrës	Church Lady of Shkodra" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Kisha Fretënve	Church Fretënve" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Kisha Ortodokse	Orthodox Church" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">
 * <see name="Varrezat e Dëshmorëve	Graveyard of the Martyrs" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Varrezat e Vjetra Myslimane	Old Muslim Cemetery" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

 * <see name="Varrezat Katolike	Catholic Cemetery" alt="" address="" directions="" phone="" email="" fax="" url="" hours="" price="">

Name
Wikipedia uses Shkodër, which is the name I'm most familiar with. Considering that per Naming conventions, this site uses the name or spelling that's most often used in English, could someone please state a reason why we should deviate from en.Wikipedia's naming of this city? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:57, 31 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I would like to renew my points here. We should change this to Shkodër. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:07, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * This makes sense to me. Ground Zero (talk) 19:10, 3 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Anyone want to object? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:12, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Nope and thanks for moving this :) <font face="BlinkMacSystemFont">SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:23, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Sure thing. I made followup edits in the most visible articles, but of course there are still links to the Albanian spelling in some articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:44, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Shkodër


text:
Talk:Shopping in Hangzhou

This information pertaining to tea, groceries, and shopping should be moved to Hangzhou, Hangzhou, Hangzhou respectively. -- (WT-en) Andrew H. (Sapphire) 00:44, 1 December 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Shopping in Hangzhou


text:
Talk:Shropshire

Not really helpful I know, anyway... "How to Visit Shropshire" - http://csteinbach.com/steve

Edits made by anonymous IP user
I have reverted the edits made by a user with three different IP addresses. After the first revert, I went to the first user's talk page to explain my reasoning. This was ignored, and two further attempts to reinstate the edits have been made using different IP addresses. I have invited the latest IP to come and chat, so we can resolve this without an edit war.

So my rationale is that the user's edits don't add any new content to the page, and also make the tone dryer and less informal. Furthermore, I don't understand the insistence on retaining "With over 90 attractions to visit, with some being:", which is clearly a grammatically-incorrect construction, over a full sentence such as "Shropshire has over 90 attractions to visit, with the best being:" There is also no question over whether WV lists the best attractions!

Hopefully, we can come to an agreement. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:44, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

 * Why "over 90 attractions" in the first place? How do you count them? Who counts them? Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:47, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

 * Good point. Presumably the original author got the figure from somewhere, but the source is long-forgotten. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:50, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

 * Even if there were no SEO concerns, it would be a good idea to get rid of this sentence, then. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:51, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

 * Who knows where the idea originated, but I just googled and it's certainly doing, the, rounds on other travel sites. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:54, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Shropshire


text:
Talk:Sialkot

copyvio
I have make changes, It shoud be acceptable. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Yaminjanjua (talk • contribs)

 * I've reverted the deletion of the tag (again) because I'm certain it still applies.

 * I've also reverted the deletion of the Sialkot sidebar link (again) - please stop deleting it. Thanks. ~ 203.144.143.4 10:09, 21 December 2007 (EST)

Photos
Are there too many photos in this article? Or, perhaps better asked, are there photos that would be better off left out? For example, why are the hotel photos important? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 19:51, 13 August 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Sialkot


text:
Talk:Siauliai

Should this be an article? or is it an attraction? -- (WT-en) Huttite 17:47, 14 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * Looks like an attraction to me. The only question in my mind is what destination shall we put it under? -- (WT-en) Mark 18:52, 14 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * Hi guys - I had a look at the Wiki article guidelines and yes it is definitely an attraction rather than a destination under the definition stated there. As you raise the point though Mark, where shall we put it?  To put the place in context, the Hill Of Crosses is pretty much in the middle of nowhere; a friend and I visited a few months ago, taking a 100km detour from the main highway to reach it!  The nearest town is Siauliai, so I suppose the Hill could be put under that under the 'See' or 'Get Out' sections, but the town itself is not particularly one that is a draw for tourists so moving the page would seem to me to 'mask' the main attraction in the area that is the Hill.  Have considered this dilemma for a number of destinations of late - i.e. smaller attraction that is distant enough from a 'city' to be ditinct from it, but not be classed as a city or large park in its own right.  Perhaps we could be more flexible on the style rules, or introduce a template for Smaller, standalone attractions? (WT-en) StuartEdwards 03:42, 15 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * It might make sense in this case to create a Siauliai destination and have Hill Of Crosses redirect there. This is what we've done in the past for points of interest like say Auschwitz which are not Wikivoyage destinations (ie. no place to Sleep).  Another option would be to use a town which is not quite as near but has more in the way of places to Sleep, Eat, Drink etc. -- (WT-en) Mark 13:04, 15 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * This is possibly the sort of attraction that fits in a region article's See section. It is between towns, so you could be listing this in at least two places. It could possibly also appear in an itinerary article. Unless you are going to have a hugely detailed travel article about a particular place, I fail to see why each sight, or site, needs its own article. I agree you may want to have a bit more explanation in this case, but do we want a separate article about each and every memorial, statue, public artwork, notable construction or big thing along the roadside? We do need to draw a line somewhere. If it doesn't fit into an existing article template, there needs to be a very strong reason for justifying it as an article. Simple remoteness is not enough, it should also be something worth writing about. There needs to be clear potential for, say, a good 5,000+ word travel article that explains why one should visit this place. I do not see that here. -- (WT-en) Huttite 16:48, 15 Jan 2006 (EST)

Should have clarified that the Hill is more than just a monument / statue - it does have a big draw on the tourist cicuit (as clear by the fact that there were a dozen coaches there at time of visit), so I believe warrants some sort of distinct entry, but is probably not big enough to warrant 5000+ words (as with Auschwitz as mentioned by Mark). On a similar theme, where do important museums fit in - e.g. British Museum, Louvre, Hermitage, Met in New York? Looking at the current entry for these, there is not a great deal of information other than location / opening times etc, although there is in most cases a link to the relevant website. Traditional guide books usually incorporate a couple of pages on the highlights of such museums, including maps, as most visitors will visit but not neccessarily wish to purchase a distinct guide book; does the Wikivoyage MoS support that level of detail if a site warrents it? (WT-en) StuartEdwards 06:17, 16 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * They are attractions in the See section of the appropriate destination. I actually think we have pretty good coverage of the Louvre in Paris/1st arrondissement.  -- (WT-en) Mark 06:47, 16 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * I have come up with a resolution for this issue - I will create a Siauliai page and move the contents of the Hill Of Crosses into the Get Out section for now; I will keep a watch on the page and when a suitable region page is set up move it to the See section in the region. I have a similar task to do with the Southern Little Poland page that I set up and is subject to a similar issue.  Will sort it in the next few days (am off to sleep now as it is late Down Under ;-) ).
 * As for my comment on the coverage of the Louvre; yes it is sufficient to get you there and tell you how much it costs / when it is open etc, but it does not provide an in depth article level guide to what to find in each gallery. My question is, do such major attractions warrant that level of detail within the Wikivoyage guide, or is it beyond the scope of the project's goals? (WT-en) StuartEdwards 07:42, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * So far the consensus is that a gallery by gallery guide to the Louvre is in fact beyond the scope of the project. I would sooner think that that sort of information would be encyclopedic.  Meanwhile I think that your plan for Hill of Crosses sounds good, except in that I would almost certainly put it under See.  There's some difference of opinion about the use of the Get Out section, but local attractions is not one of the things it's currently used for.  -- (WT-en) Mark 08:29, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)

Real article of Siauliai
The real article of Siauliai is

http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Šiauliai

I am not sure how to redirect this page there, because search of "siauliai" directs to this page and it is quite useless. How to change it all.

title: Talk:Siauliai


text:
Talk:Siberia

This region should be split
This is not one of the regions in Russia, and should be split into Western Siberia/Northern Russia/Far Eastern Russia by somebody who, unlike me, actually knows what they're doing. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:04, 30 November 2006 (EST)
 * Issue now fully resolved. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 04:31, 27 November 2007 (EST)

Land in Siberia
What are the laws of land ownership in Siberia? In Mongolia all of the land outside of the major cities is public property and you can settle anywhere. Is it similar in Siberia?

Also, how much money should one bring? How much does lodging and food usually cost?

Europe or Asia?
I see that one user is repeatedly moving Siberia from Asia into Europe. Does this even make any sense geographically? Is Siberia in Europe? K7L (talk) 02:34, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
 * No, it isn't. There's no ambiguity. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:04, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Where is this?
Radiocarbon dating pins date for construction of Uyghur complex to the year 777 looks interesting, a well-preserved archeological site. Article says near Russian-Mongolian border. Pashley (talk) 12:27, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Related to the Inuit?
In Understand, we claim that
 * "The indigenous Siberians, like most indigenous Asian Russians, are more closely related to Turkic peoples or to the Inuit than to ethnic Russians.

Some groups (or their languages) are related to Turkic peoples, but to the Inuit? The Samoyed languages, which I suppose are what this is about, are classified as Uralic, and I have never seen anybody claim that Finnish and Greenlandic would be related.

Is this the confusion of whether "Siberia" refers to our region or to all Russia east of the Urals (or something similar)? The Chukotko-Kamchatkan languages are indeed sometimes claimed to be related to the Inuit languages. The mention of Inuit was added by an IP user back in 2016.

–LPfi (talk) 10:51, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Siberia


text:
Talk:Sibiu

You are sure that is Collogne and not Köln? Hmm...das ist nein gut... —(WT-en) Mistertalk 10:36, 30 March 2010 (EDT)

 * It is Cologne. Which would have been very easy for you to check. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:38, 30 March 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Sibiu


text:
Talk:Sichuan

Regions
I have finalised the subdivision of Sichuan, which has long been only half done. My suggestion is Aba (prefecture), Ganzi (prefecture), South Sichuan and East Sichuan, any other suggestions?, (WT-en) ClausHansen 03:33, 22 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Sichuan


text:
Talk:Sicily

Stay safe
I removed some babble about Corleone from this section, so unfortunately it now stands empty.

No one word about mafia...mafia threatens tourists as every Italian and Sicilian--151.30.34.101 15:03, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

 * The mafia threatens tourists? I thought they were busy running the place. I'm no expert on Sicily, but organized crime around the world usually poses little to no threat to tourists, unlike low-level street crime. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:13, 19 August 2008 (EDT)

Can the cities Noto (Unesco) and Taormina be added?

Alternative banner for this article?
I created a new alternative banner for this article (I initially created it first and foremost so that it would be used at the top of the parallel article in the Hebrew edition of Wikivoyage, yet I later decided to also suggest that the English Wikivoyage community would consider using it here as well). So, which banner do you prefer having at the top of this article? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 05:15, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I like the composition of the current banner better, and also the fact that it does not clearly show a particular city. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:41, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Both are good, but I prefer the original because it is something people generally would not expect of Sicily, whereas pretty Mediterranean ports are a dime a dozen. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:52, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I prefer the original one, because it does not show any particular city, but Sicily landscape. Danapit (talk) 12:10, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I prefer the original. Looks more Sicilian. And it is more quiet, i.e., useful as a background for text Elgaard (talk) 23:22, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Proposed. More attractive Syced (talk) 07:41, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Proposed banner I like slightly better... WikiData has Sicily banner Fruit stall.png listed by the way - Matroc (talk) 04:20, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The fruit stall is a nice idea, but that picture is in my opinion not nearly as good as either of the other banners. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:53, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I also like the idea of a 'slice of life' here, but ultimately nothing to suggest it is in Sicily. Also somewhat pedantic, but it is less than 2100 pixel minimum across that we recommend. Andrewssi2 (talk) 05:56, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Agreed - I liked the proposed banner (Suggested new alternative banner). I just thought it might be a good idea to let you all know that Wikidata and other sites have something different banner altogether. - Matroc (talk) 07:50, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Dirtiest part of Europe?
I am taking a family holiday in Sicily. As usual, the information here has been very useful. One of the biggest disappointments though is the amount of litter/rubbish that fills the streets of the major cities and along every country lane. Clearly there has been no effort at litter collection here. And the locals must regard any area as suitable for discarding rubbish bags. I travel the world and I do not think I have been anywhere quite so dirty (not even Afghanistan or Bangladesh). It would be good to get some other comments. Assuming there is agreement, I think this information needs to go into the main page.Davidbstanley (talk) 08:11, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Cheap flights?
Sicily will pay for half of your flight to visit the island this year Pashley (talk) 01:49, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Lat/long links
There are a number of unnecessary lat/long links on the main page, I feel like these should be removed. unsigned comment by user:Oxidising, 8 Feb 2023
 * if you mean the strings of "0°0'0"N...", that is a problem occurring across Wikimedia sites. It has been brought to the attention of the Wikimedia programmers, who are working on a solution. Ground Zero (talk) 12:23, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

 * When I open the page in both Firefox and Chrome I see
 * 0°0′0″N 0°0′0″E 0°0′0″N 0°0′0″E 0°0′0″N 0°0′0″E 0°0′0″N 0°0′0″E 0°0′0″N 0°0′0″E 0°0′0″N 0°0′0″E 0°0′0″N 0°0′0″E 0°0′0″N 0°0′0″E 0°0′0″N 0°0′0″E
 * underneath the description of Trapani under Provinces. Oxidising (talk) 12:28, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's the problem the programmers are working to resolve. Ground Zero (talk) 12:58, 8 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Ah OK, good it's a known issue, I thought I was missing something in the source. Oxidising (talk) 14:13, 8 February 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sicily


text:
Talk:Siem Reap

Getting in
I've updated the section "Get in" and added the text about travelling by train to the cambodian border. I've done this once (~ 2 years ago), it was incredible cheap but can't remember the price I payed for the ticket. Could someone update this ?

Images
I just added an image (first time I've tried the whole upload thing!) but it's probably way too big. If someone wants to save it and edit it down and upload it again, feel free. I have a ton of Cambodia picts at http://www.majink.org/trav/picts/cambodia/index.html but I'm lame with the image manipulation... (WT-en) Majnoona 12:51, 25 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Blind obedience to templates
One of the sections in the Siem Reap page is entitled "By land", as it covers buses, taxis and pickup trucks plying the same highways to the same destinations. I would like to keep it that way. Going by bus/taxi/pickup to Bangkok and Phnom Penh, on the other hand, are quite different because the first route involves crossing a tough border and the other doesn't; I would also like to keep the subsections for these separate. (As on example, a warning about scams and hassles at the border doesn't apply to anyone coming from PP!)

And why, pray tell, was the immensely useful external link to Tales of Asia's Cambodia Overland page removed?

So please outline any objections here before you go change the page. Thank ye. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:43, 17 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * Jpatokal, I'm not following you on why you think this link is appropriate under the ext link policy. Could you please elaborate? -- (WT-en) Colin 04:15, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * Tales of Asia provides the exceedingly useful service of an up-to-the-week update on road conditions in the country. In the first world country, this would be provided by the "first source" of the Ministry of Transport, but this is Cambodia and such sources don't exist (at least not online). (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:09, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * My new world country sucks at this kind of thing :-). I think the link can stay but it should be in the Get in or Get around section with some advisory that the traveller should consult the extlink for current road conditions.  It looks weird in the extlink section to me. And the emphasis should be on the usefulness of the current road conditions rather than the "chock full of information"  -- (WT-en) Colin 14:45, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * I am frankly very tired of people being overly protective of their own pet pages. While arguably the "get in" section organization isn't a big deal (I'll always opt for consistency, but it's not that big a deal), the "Tales of Asia" link is definitely an "other guide" link, a secondary source, and has got to go according to the ext. link policy. -- (WT-en) Nils 04:19, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * I place utility above vague policies. ToA is a must-read for anyone planning to travel overland in Cambodia, and Wikivoyage isn't about to replace it as such. (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:09, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * The policy does not take "utility" into consideration. As I said, if you disagree with the policy, have it changed. Until the policy is changed, we shall follow it. -- (WT-en) Nils 11:04, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * 1) Your beloved, carved in stone, Richtung und Ordnung policy says, and I quote, "avoid". It does not say "never, ever link to".
 * 2) The traveller comes first is a superpolicy that overrides anything else.
 * But the discussion has duly started on Project:External links. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:23, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * The rest of us are tired of people being overly fussy about "the rules", and running around deleting useful information all over the place without the tiniest amount of thought as to why the information is there, or how useful it might be. Could it perhaps be that somebody who's contributed a lot to a given page thinks the link would be useful for a traveler?  Perhaps those contributors are in a really good position to decide which links are worthwhile and which are not, and maybe just maybe we should consider Assuming good Faith before deleting that stuff willy-nilly. -- (WT-en) Mark 08:31, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * If you dislike the policy, start a discussion about it and get people to agree to change the policy. It does not matter how useful those pages may be. Please point that paragraph of the ext link policy out to me. Do you guys have some sort of attention disorder that I have to repeat myself so often? -- (WT-en) Nils 11:04, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * I'll take ADD over ad hominem attacks, thank you. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:23, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * Says the guy who brought user nationalities into the argument... But hey, whatever floats your boat. -- (WT-en) Nils 11:56, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * "Useful and worthwhile" is a terrible justification for an extlink. Other guides are often useful and worthwhile, but we don't link to them.  In this case, current road conditions seems like a valid reason to me, but in general, usefulness and worth are insufficient cause. -- (WT-en) Colin 14:45, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * Current road conditions seems like a valid reason to me too, and probably would to anybody else capable of reason, but sadly some people who like to appoint themselves site-wide policy enforcers don't seem capable of dealing with fine points or shades of gray, so sadly the policy will have to be clarified to adapt to such black-and-white thinking. -- (WT-en) Mark 16:00, 18 Jul 2004 (EDT)

credit cards in SR
I visited SR in August 06. The credit card facility at the local international airport was 100% ok. There are no problems or difficulties using the service. Also, around town, there are several public access ATMs. This is in contrast to the story tourists are told at the Thai/Cambodian border that there are no ATMs in Cambodia. In addition to ATMs there are several banks in SR which will provide funds from a credit card.
 * I seem to recall that too. Feel free to Project:Plunge forward and update this and the Cambodia articles if you don't think they reflect this. Thanks. (WT-en) Maj 13:51, 23 January 2007 (EST)
 * I visited SR in Nov 06, and the airport's credit card system for paying service fees was "down" (and looked like it had been so for quite a while). But yeah, ATMs are all over the place now. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:35, 23 January 2007 (EST)

OK- to me the SR airport looked as modern as anything in Cambodia, but if it is occasionally down then lets advise travellers of that eventuallity. I will leave entry as it is.

Happy happy joy joy
As far as I understand, cannabis is not legal in any form in Cambodia. However, it is a traditional ingredient in cooking, and the happy pizzerias are in a gray zone as far as law enforcement is concerned: sometimes the police crack down, something they don't. A long thread on the subject in TOA here.

So... how do we handle this? (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:43, 11 February 2007 (EST)
 * I think you already have. Just state what you have already written (with slightly more explanation if you deem it to be necessary). (WT-en) WindHorse 00:51, 11 February 2007 (EST)

Electrical bicycles
When I was in Siem Reap two years ago (2006), there was the possibility to rent electrical (battery-powered) bicycles along the road from Siem Reap towards the Angkor. Unfortunately I cannot remember the price I had to pay, and neither if this business is still in operation. If anyone is passing by there, kindly have a look if this information is still valid :). I have added it to this page and also to the Angkor Archaeological Park page. 155.56.68.220 05:11, 2 May 2008 (EDT)Martin

Driver recommendations
This was removed from the article:

Ask for Mith Bundy (Tel: 012 942 561) for a very friendly driver with basic (but workable) English skills.

I think this would be fine to keep, as it's a "primary telephone number" directly to a guide, but I understand that this could be a slippery slope. Other opinions? (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:52, 19 May 2008 (EDT)

 * There are hundreds of good drivers in town with good English and knowledge about the temples in town. There is absolutely no need to post the mobile number of a special driver here. I know these postings from Cambodian forums. There are a lot. By the way Cambodians sometimes/often change their numbers. Just go out of your hotel and ask the next driver. He will be good choice. Believe me. -- (WT-en) DerFussi 02:06, 30 June 2009 (EDT)

Not true. We had 6 drivers during our time here, and there were huge differences between them. The right driver can make a major difference in your experience. I would say that in Siem Reap in particular, it is more important than the hotel or restaurant to the overall trip. And so, a list of great drivers would have been a great help.

New Map provided
My map, that is included to this article here is out-dated. I have provided a set of new ones. I big SVG-File and a derived map with every district. I had to split the article about Siem Reap. There are a lot of information. Feel free to use the maps. ...here -- (WT-en) DerFussi 02:59, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

Heritage Watch
Does Heritage Watch deserve a logo and a paragraph of endorsement here? (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 14:08, 8 March 2009 (EDT)

Page layout is messed up
The entries for Skyway Hostel and Shadow of Angkor is messing up the page display in Firefox. The page becomes very wide and have to scroll left and right in order to read it.

I'd already tried to fix it but without much success. Can someone else help ??

Internet and Shadow of Angkor II
One thing you may want to point out is verifying internet connectivity at hotels. Both of the hotels I've stayed at here claimed to ahve internet connectivity but the first later told me it was down and would be fixed "the next day" for 2 days. On the third day I left and went to Shadow of Angkor II, which is a very new very nice hotel a few blocks from the original Shadow of Angkor, and they also claimed to have internet. It is available, but it's awful and doesn't work on the top 2 floors. They also claimed that it would be fixed the following day, yet here I am on the second floor because it is not fixed.

Self-drive by car to Siem Reap?
Now that the highway from Poipet on the Thai-Cambodia border to Siem Reap appears to be improved to acceptable standards (judging from the photo), is it possible to drive oneself by auto from Thailand to Siem Reap? The article doesn't say; the section describing ground transportation via the Poipet route discusses only public transportation options (e.g., bus and taxi). It would seem useful to add this info. to the article.207.228.160.146 19:55, 10 November 2009 (EST)

 * Will someone familiar with the area address this in the article? Does the traveler from Thailand have other options besides taxi and bus at the border? Specifically, can a rental car be driven across the border and on to Siem Reap? 200.10.166.198 14:00, 8 June 2010 (EDT)

 * I believe this border will not allow rented cars across, basically almost all passengers have to dismount and get in another vehicle on the other side both ways. If the bus companies and tourism ministries of Thailand and Cambodia  cannot break through this highly inconvenient but lucrative arrangement, a visitor has little or no chance of challenging it.

--111.118.147.27 23:48, 4 October 2010 (EDT)

Sleep section
Is huge! Needs a good culling to get us down 10ish listings in each sleep category. If anyone fancies having a go, please plunge forward. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 00:16, 20 January 2010 (EST)

On a related note, I stayed at the Earthwalkers gesthouse the last few days and while the description is correct (the place is indeed 'fantastic'), the description doesn't do it justice. The place has a few quirks; There seems to be some interesting plumbing as having hot water in our room seems to be a hit-or-miss thing and related to whether the shower drains quickly or slowly, the internet is workable but has trouble with certain sites (mainly hotmail), etc. They also can arrange lots of stuff for you including remork/moto drivers with their prices being consistent and, I think, acceptable (13$ small tour, 15$ grand tour, 22$ to bantei srei, 5$ one-way to Angkor Wat for example. The hotel takes a cut.), On the other hand, the rooms are indeed clean, it doesn't just have wifi but really has free wifi, etc. This is my only experience with Cambodian accomodations, so I'm unclear whether our intermittent hot water is on par with other budget Cambodian (or at least siem reap) gesthouses. I'm happy to condense all this into the earthwalker's description (and I think this particular inn should stay on the final list, it's a great place) although I don't know enough about siem reap accomodations to feel confident weeding out the whole list.(WT-en) Charles 07:40, 15 March 2010 (EDT)

 * I am going to look through. I travel to Cambodia every year and follow the feedbacks in forums as well. So meanwhile I know Siem Reap and Phnom Penh quite well. Maybe my recently finished maps of Siem Reap and it quarters may help as well. Feel free to use it: ...here-- (WT-en) DerFussi 06:01, 25 March 2010 (EDT)

 * Excellent DerFussi. Please do feel free to prune the sleep section here. It is certainly too large. It would be be great if you had a look at Sihanoukville as well, as some attention is needed there. Good looking maps and I see the SVGs are avaiable. We may well take you up on that offer. Of course, you are welcome to use my Cambodia country map if it is of any use to WikiVoyage. Thanks again. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:20, 25 March 2010 (EDT)

 * Thanks for your offer. Ok, i am going to check the article about Sihanoukville too during the upcoming weekend. No problem. -- (WT-en) DerFussi 04:23, 26 March 2010 (EDT)

 * I have started to comment out some of the hotels. I used some information from forums and communities like travelfish - and my own experiencesas well. Two more comments. 1. You show consider to separate the information and make articles of the quarters. (like I did on Wikivoyage - you can use the same quarters). I know. Siem Reap is a small twon. But it consists of hotels (around 300!) and shops and restaurants only. You have to arrange it anyway. Its the only way to manage this huge amount of addresses and places. 2. Put the restaurants in an order. (Western food, Asian food, Mediterranean .... -- (WT-en) DerFussi 02:43, 30 March 2010 (EDT)

 * Understood but please bear in mind that Wikivoyage never wants to be a directory of listings. The last thing we want is to look like the Yellow Pages. Even if there are a lot of hotels and restaurants, Wiktiravel aims to show a selection of the best in each category. This is the case with even our star-rated articles. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 23:16, 30 March 2010 (EDT)

 * I am aware of that. But your aim is, to guide the travellers. Nobody wants a link list. The quaters articles can be short. The advantage is, that firstly the traveller can find a suitable restaurant near their hotel. And the traveller can find a suitable hotel easier when they know, that: 1. Old market area is busy and not that quiet but you have short ways. 2. Taphul Village and Wat Bo Area have a lot of budget guest houses. Many midrange upmarket hotels are at the airport road and north of town. That is what a star article (set of star articles!) represents. By the way. Who voted for Sihanoukville as destination of the month off the beaten path?? Its ridiculous. You should see it in relation to the country. Its the mostly visited place in Cambodia after Siem Reap. Its a real destination of the month, and not off the beaten path. Kratie of Banlung or maybe Battambang would fit that demand. And the Sihanoukville's article is not that suitable cause you should separate all the hotels and restaurants. Every beach area in Sihanoukville has its own style and flair and his own kind of travellers - and the distances are quite big (thats the reason why I made separate articles about the quarters in Sihanoukville on WV). The first question for a traveller in Sihanoukville is: To what area/beach i should go and stay? Just an idea to think about. -- (WT-en) DerFussi 06:11, 31 March 2010 (EDT)

 * No idea on Sihanoukvile. I spent 24 hours there and got out as fast as possible :). A dreadful place full of the sleaziest westerners imaginable.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 06:15, 31 March 2010 (EDT)

 * SHV is not that bad - if you know where to stay :) on the other hand - 4 days are enough.... Been busy recently. I will take a look at SHV and look through the sleeping section in this article. -- (WT-en) DerFussi 01:58, 10 May 2010 (EDT)

Ken Dooley
If I had a quarter for every time I came to wikivoyage.org... Amazing writing!

How long is the bus ride from Phnom Penh to Siem Reap?
The article discusses the length from Thailand to Siem Reap, and the cost from PP to SR, but not the time? ta -NB

 * It takes around 6 hours. -- (WT-en) DerFussi 08:13, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

Bus journey SR to BKK is no problem. The scams are BKK to SR only.
Shocked to read the false information about scams SR to BKK. My advice, a small bribe is normal entering poipet, but any problems poipet to Thailand are either due to a vehicle breaking down and their attempts to find a replacement, or idiot tourists asking to be ripped off.

I travelled both ways 20 times in the past 3 years. Every time SR to BKK was ok, although occasionally there was a delay for various reasons, but the ticket is cheap at $10 or less and no scams. Equally I witnessed major scams and problems EVERY time BKK to SR, not once was I taken all the way, every time i had to either pay the scam or arrange my own taxi poi pet to SR. Basically BKK to SR the ticket is cheap BECAUSE enough tourists fall for either the visa scam or the no bus available from poipet to sr scam. Taxis cost about $30 poipet to sr, including police bribes which are paid on the way out of town, by the driver, in cash.

Until the Cambodian authorities reclaim control of poipet, it is best to allow $5 or more for scams bkk to sr, but there is no need to fuss SR to BKK. Thailand would not allow their police to be involved in scamming tourists so blatantly, it looks bad.

The main source of scams are the Thais issuing Cambodian visas at 1300 baht. This is apparently legal in thailand. If you have exact money, just $20, and a passport sized photo, visas to Cambodia are ALWAYS available directly at a small cambodian police booth after the Thai passport control ONTHE SAME (left) SIDE OF THE ROAD. On the opposite side is the police barracks, where off duty police will grill you, but as they are off duty anything goes. No photo, usually $1 fine, but if you look rich and stupid... It's their lucky day! . $50 note? No change given. Thai baht? 1300 fixed price. Cambodian Riel? Not accepted, nor any tourist place in Cambodia, US dollars only and in good condition. These police can be very pushy, but they are OFF DUTY from the government and apparently out for their own gain. Cross the road and they cannot refuse the government price of $20 and a photo. Of course your bus to siem reap evaporates, it never existed unless you pay the visa scam, so get a taxi for $30 or so - the police take a cut so it varies.

But i say again, SR to BKK, i recommend the 11:30 am bus, change your ticket for a red or other colour sticky tape at the border, walk across 1km, wait for bus or taxi to bkk, no problem, no scam, just sometimes a delay for genuine operational reasons like a broken or missing vehicle, or your fellow passengers delayed from battambang. If you are alone, or a pair, chat to the boy who decides who gets on what bus or taxi to bkk as he needs to fill odd numbers of seats in the various vehicles and when full they leave for Bangkok.

In Thailand you will get a seat by law. In Cambodia for backpack prices, vehicle problems lead to either plastic seats in the aisle or sitting on the floor, or next day travel. --111.118.147.27 00:53, 5 October 2010 (EDT)

Check your toilet stops with each driver, sometimes you are many hours on the road and other times you stop at his brother in laws shack for 30 minutes, where food and water inexpensive and often very good, but toilets leave much to be desired.

Anonymous comments
Removed from the page: (WT-en) Texugo 07:40, 30 December 2010 (EST)

Curry Walla Restaurant run by A Sikh (Singh in Hindi स ) Sikh is a follower of Sikhism (Sikhi in Punjabi) they are sikh and sale beef and Halal food, Sikhs would not eat in restaurants that are exclusively halal or kosher. So how can they sale food Halal and Beef also i don’t believe this.. But they do Because maybe they only like to make money from Muslim market and they don’t care and respect about own religion. Sikhism, but they should be care and respect others .. What are the main laws or beliefs relating to food? Sikhs do not believe in Halal ritual killing and are told to refrain from eating meat .....Halal.. .....kosher.. killed by such rites. Sikhs are expected to be active and alert and are therefore required to refrain from alcohol and drugs; not on the grounds of impurity but mental and physical fitness

Which ingredients are forbidden? Halal meat Kosher meat

Is there a link with vegetarianism? Because of influences of the sub continent social environment, some Sikhs will not eat beef; others will not eat pork and others will be vegetarians. Because of such varieties and sensitivities all food served in a gurdwara (Sikh place of worship) is vegetarian. We often visiting to siem reap due to  business peruse. There are muslim / Halal food options very limited. Recently i found a place on web and local guide books advertised a restaurant named curry walla serving Halal Food. During our recent visit in siem reap we went to that place and inquired about food to make sure is it Halal or Not? Local staff and owner was just answered “food is Halal”. When we asked “what is halal”? they kept quite, even they did not know about actual things and meanings about Halal. We was angry because they are lying and cheating to Muslim customers for money. we mentioned these things in Our blog too. This same things doing other non muslim Indian Restaurants too. Any restaurant can not claim and advertise about Halal Food with Non Muslim ownership/ management/chef/ kitchen staff. So, 100% Surely this restaurant is not serving Halal food. We did not eat here and told to my friends and known persons too. Halal / Muslim food available in Siem reap on following places:

1-Local food : Khmer Muslim Restaurant; next to neak mah Mosque

2-Malysian food D Wau Restaurant: No 275, Road No. 6, near Psa Leo Market.

3-Indian / Pakistani Food Maharajah Restaurant: Street No. 7, Old Market Area. 4- KFC

Madam Beergarden UNDER CONSTRUCTION
This listing has been (minor) edited and moved here as the listing appears to be for a project rather than a currently available facility. It can go into the article when it opens. Please note that "affordable" is a highly subjective qualification, hence that comment has beed edited out of the listing. -- (WT-en) felix 12:24, 26 July 2011 (EDT)

UNDER CONSTRUCTION:
 * Thai and Khmer food in a nice atmosphere. Enjoy the garden or sit inside in funky environment. Cocktail, draft beer and soft drinks are served with lunch and dinner.

 * As per advice left on my talk page (08:09, 13 August 2011 IP: 175.100.59.61)

"hello felix505 i do not really understand why you have edited our company listings regarding madam beergarden UNDER CONSTRUCTION as the company is opened and has been for around 4 months with me as the owner... the name is madam beergarden UNDER CONSTRUCTION so please put it back on thank you very much"
 * Accordingly restored the listing to the article incorporating Madam Beergarden Under Construction (Under Construction is part of the name). -- (WT-en) felix 05:32, 13 August 2011 (EDT)

Get out "Thailand"
I added back in most of the information on how to get from Siem Reap to Thailand & Bangkok in particular. It seems a commonly traveled route. Was there a reason for the information's surprise deletion in the first place?

Simply listing "Get Out - Thailand" is of nearly no use to anyone. If we keep things that simple, why not simply link a map of SE Asia on the "Get Out" section? See the countries that touch Cambodia -consider visiting them...

Get out to Thailand
No seriously - why has this been deleted? Siem Reap to Bangkok is a very popular route, and the explanation pretty much covered the entire process/possibilities. So...why remove it? (WT-en) bbb0777 01:58, 13 March 2012 (EDT)

title: Talk:Siem Reap


text:
Talk:Siena

Tours section
I put the tours into one section. I don't like the listings, though. I'm tempted to delete all of them, but definitely think that those taking travelers outside of the city of Siena don't belong in the body of this article, if at all.

Hotels section
There are too many listings, and some of them are too far outside of Siena to belong here, in my opinion. Some of the formatting is weird, too. I will be conservative for now and delete obvious agencies and leave all hotel listings alone. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 22:50, 25 January 2010 (EST)

I need help deleting entries. I don't think any hotel that isn't either within the Comune di Siena or at least very close to it (say, no more than 10 km away) should be included. There are pages for Chianti and the Province of Siena, and other pages for towns such as Montepulciano, Montalcino, Monteriggioni, etc. This shouldn't be a catch-all page for hotels everywhere in Tuscany or even everywhere in the Province of Siena. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 07:32, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

OK, I did a considerable amount of cleanup, but some of the listings may still be in violation of the prohibition on broker listings, and some may still need detouting. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 05:57, 4 July 2010 (EDT)

To Guide
It would be great to turn this article into a Guide and eventually feature it, but that's a tall order. There are many guides to Siena online. To be special, this article would not only have to be thoroughly updated and listified, but it would also need plenty of listings for excellent places to eat of different kinds and price points - of which we have almost none! - and drink, and way more and more specific "Buy" listings. I believe there should be more "Learn" listings for places that offer short-term (~2 weeks or less) courses in Italian or other subjects. Finally, I think that we will eventually want to use more and better images of "secondary" sights, once there's more room for them.

Since I believe that making this article a Guide is a big project and not likely to be achieved soon, I think the best approach is to deal with things a bit at a time. And on that basis, I would ask anyone who knows Siena, or especially if you've been there recently (the last time I was there was in 1998) to please add listings for establishments you liked and further information and remarks about attractions that may be different from stuff that's already online (including practical information about how to get places and whether the walk is uphill, or steeply uphill). Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:40, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

"Strikingly modern" buildings in the Centro Storico?
From the last sentence of "Understand/History":

Nowadays, it is a requirement that new buildings within the city walls be built to maintain the city's character and beauty - many are strikingly modern, yet fit in well.

Where are these "strikingly modern" buildings in the Centro Storico? I don't think there are any, but prove me wrong. I believe city regulations require modern buildings to be neo-Gothic, like the Post Office on Piazza Matteotti. Unless someone states otherwise, I will edit out this claim about striking modern architecture in the Centro Storico. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:54, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

 * I've decided to plunge forward and delete this language. Go ahead and reinstate it if you can point to "many...strikingly modern" buildings in the Centro Storico. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:22, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

Guide to Siena in it.voy
I think there are some things we should consider translating from it.voy:Siena. We surely don't want to duplicate their long lists or inline links to Wikipedia, but there are additional listings of attractions there that are worth our attention. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:22, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

 * I'll add that I don't think we want to include listings for every attraction they list, but at least some additional palazzi and museums might be good to include. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:38, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Siena


text:
Talk:Sierra Leone

For future reference the Project:CIA World Factbook 2002 import can be found at Talk:Sierra Leone/CIA World Factbook 2002 import. -- (WT-en) Huttite 06:24, 28 Mar 2005 (EST)

Quickbar malfunction?
Is the quickbar breaking this page for anyone else? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:47, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

 * Yes, broken on Kubuntu with Firefox 3 --(WT-en) Nick 03:43, 31 July 2008 (EDT)
 * I purged the page and it looks fine now --(WT-en) Nick 03:44, 31 July 2008 (EDT)

Walking at night is safe?
I don't agree. --(WT-en) FourGreenLights 02:44, 8 January 2010 (EST)
 * Care to justify this? (WT-en) Davidbstanley 09:59, 8 January 2010 (EST)

Regions
This is a country where using the existing regions seems appropriate. (WT-en) AHeneen 02:28, 26 January 2010 (EST)

 * The Western region seems a bit small though. Maybe Sierra Leone could suffice without any regions as there are not more than 9 cities over 25,000 inhabitants. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 19:08, 27 January 2010 (EST)

 * I'm inclined to agree. If we ever get enough content to justify a breakdown, we can use the above proposed regions. I think it's highly doubtful that will happen anytime soon, though! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:47, 27 January 2010 (EST)

 * I had it in my head that Sierra Leone was much larger than it actually is. I would agree that no regions are required, just a decent travel map. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 23:08, 27 January 2010 (EST)

 * I guess that after the discussions on how small is too small, we can leave Sierra Leone without regions.(WT-en) AHeneen 03:26, 28 January 2010 (EST)

Revisited
SL has very poor transportation infrastructure, so the small size is made up for in enormous travel time... More importantly, though, I know enough about this place now to give it a proper division with good content, and would like to go ahead with the suggestion above.

I'd also like to carve up the Western Area (better named Freetown Peninsula) into Freetown, Mountain Road, and Peninsular Beaches. I can fill up those articles pretty easily. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:18, 19 December 2011 (EST)

 * Ok. Just don't be overzealous...it's still a small country, so there shouldn't be 10 regions. Nearby countries like Cote d'Ivoire and Ghana only have 4 regions. Maybe the Freetown Peninsula could be a region that is then subdivided? (WT-en) AHeneen 14:36, 19 December 2011 (EST)

 * Oh, yes, that is what I meant. One mountain road need not be a top level division ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:56, 20 December 2011 (EST)

Naming
Now that we've got a new region map for this article, we should decide on the actual names. The official names are non-specific and could describe any country. I suggest that we name the three provinces as "_____ern Sierra Leone", but display them as "_____ern Province" in the Regionlist on this article. As for Western Area, I think Freetown Peninsula is a much more descriptive and original name. JamesA  >talk 09:28, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

 * I'm in the process of (re)writing that section, but was going to use the official names, like Northern Province, since they are proper names, and correspond exactly to our regions scheme. But I agree that Freetown Peninsula is better than Western Area, and that can be made clear in the regionlist items field. --Peter Talk 21:01, 1 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Official documents tend to use the Western Area name rather than Freetown Peninsula. I think Western Area is slightly more than just the peninsula.  So I would recommend sticking with Western Area or Western Area(Freetown Peninsula). Davidbstanley (talk) 08:28, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Freetown Peninsula could be a redirect to Western Area. Editors could use "Freetown Peninsula" as a link, when using this name would be better in context, although it would redirect to the Western Area page. AHeneen (talk) 05:41, 4 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I've changed it to reflect Peter's naming scheme, while leaving the Freetown Peninsula as Western Area . I still think it would be better if we named it Northern Province, but am happy either way. We aren't inclined or required to name provinces according to their official/political names. JamesA  >talk 02:58, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Regions 2017
Are there really enough city articles to justify there being different articles for regions? If not, should the "Regions" section be deleted? I would particularly solicit the thoughts of User:BJWilliamstheTraveller, who just started a slightly-more-than-stub article about Eastern Province (Sierra Leone). Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:28, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

 * I would say at this point that unless someone starts dramatically adding content for the country then it should be deleted. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:47, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

 * I would agree. User:BJWilliamstheTraveller, do you want to argue for any of your work, agree with our opinion, or will you ignore us again, so that we just revert/delete everything and block you again? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:59, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

 * OK, so let's delete the "Regions" section. But then what do we do about the map, which currently has different sections? Without a "Regions" section, the colors will be mysterious, so I think it would be best to substitute a map with one solid color. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:43, 10 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I am a regular visitor to Sierra Leone. I agree that the regions should be deleted.  There is not enough regional information available to be of any benefit to the traveller. Davidbstanley (talk) 06:00, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

 * We have a clear consensus to delete the regions, so I'll do so, but would someone like to edit the map accordingly? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:04, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Section removed, map saved, but it would be great if the color-coding for regions could be removed in an edited version. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:20, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

 * ✅ --ϒpsilon (talk) 06:45, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Thanks! Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:24, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

The name of that editor sounds like Telstra... Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:38, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Yup. For the second time ever, I think, he actually tried to say something, therefore he wasn't blocked right away. ϒpsilon (talk) 14:37, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

Question
In your opinion, should we remove the warning template at the top of this article following last month's good news from Sierra Leone? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 23:36, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * How about toning it down, just stating that while getting Ebola is improbable, people should stay informed and maybe check website X before going?

 * Questions about warning boxes can be asked here: Template_talk:Warningbox --Andrewssi2 (talk) 03:17, 17 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Sierra Leone will be officially Ebola free on the 8th November 2015, assuming there are no new cases before then. It has already been more than 42 days since the last case which is the requirement to be declared free of the disease.  However, they did not start the official count until a bit later.  So the 8th would seem like the right time to remove the warning. Davidbstanley (talk) 21:21, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

Currency, time and spelling conventions
Below is a proposed infobox to let readers know which formatting conventions to use in Wikivoyage articles. Do you agree with these proposals? If you have direct knowledge of what is most commonly used in the country, please let us know. Ground Zero (talk) 16:57, 9 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Moved to the top of this article. Ground Zero (talk) 12:42, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sierra Leone


text:
Talk:Sierra Nevada

Sierra Nevada is a pretty big topic to be on one page by itself. In the south, you cannot cross from east to west directly -- you have to go north or south to go around. In winter, it's even worse -- there is no crossing between Sacramento and Bakersfield. Because of this, it's traditional to break up the Sierra Nevada into sub-regions Mostly this should be pointers to other pages, with a brief overview. Is it appropriate to stuff it all into this one page? Or should it be broken out somehow? Or what? I'm asking because for the Death Valley page, it would be nice if it could point to an Eastern Sierra page that describes that nearby region. Currently, Death Valley points to the Sierra Nevada overview page, and I'm thinking that someone clicking over from Death Valley will get a lot of info about Tahoe and Yosemite and think "that's too far away" when the Eastern Sierra sights really are within easy reach. --- (WT-en) Colin 01:47, 10 Mar 2004 (EST)
 * 1) Lake Tahoe Region.   Both the Sierra Nevada page and the Lake Tahoe page refuse to confess that Lake Tahoe does, in fact, reside in the Sierra Nevada mountain range (see WikiPedia:Sierra Nevada (US))
 * 2) Gold Country The foothills in the northern and central sections
 * 3) Eastern Sierra The dry and quiet east side from Bridgeport south to Lone Pine
 * 4) Yosemite Region Yosemite National Park and nearby cities
 * 5) Sequoia and Kings Canyon the twin national parks on the south west side, and their surrounding cities.

 * So, the main thing to remember is that Sierra Nevada is not an article about the entire Sierra Nevada mountain range. It's actually about the region of California we've called "Sierra Nevada" for lack of a better name. It'd probably be more precise to call it "the Sierra Nevada south of Lake Tahoe." We have a lot of other regions that are in or near the SN mountain range: Lake Tahoe, Gold Country, Shasta Cascades. I agree, though, that we need to make this more clear. --(WT-en) Evan 09:11, 10 Mar 2004 (EST)

Alternative banners
I have a few alternative banners to suggest. The current banner is fine but it looks a little artificial and looks like a big granite rock rather than a mountain range. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 16:20, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

 * I prefer #3. Then #2, and #1. Current banner is my least favourite of the four. I agree with your assessment of it. Ground Zero (talk) 17:07, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, I've added #3 and definitely that banner looks excellent. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 23:57, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree with the decision. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:36, 21 May 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sierra Nevada