text:
Talk:John F. Kennedy International Airport

status
This airport article provides a ton of information and cover probably (next to) everything most people using the airport will need. However, there is not a single eat or sleep listing, so it has to be an outline. Seems easy enough to rectify, right? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:13, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Mozio
It effectively gets 2 listings, and normally, booking or price-comparison services are not included on this site at all, per external links. What do you all think? I've never heard of them. Are they important enough that we should make an exception for them? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:19, 30 November 2016 (UTC)

Making connections
Request someone who knows explain the basic challenges for making flight connections between different terminals. The cautions expressed in "Understand" deserve some description of why such times are essential, e.g., for security lines (induced by air side/ground side/air side transfer complications), Customs and Immigration lines, walking distances (supported or not by moving walkways), and whether certain times are best avoided if possible. Regards, Hennejohn (talk) 18:36, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

How early to arrive
Re: This edit: What is "several hours"? I try to arrive around 2 hours before domestic flights, and if I arrive 1.5 hours before, it's enough time and usually not close to actually being a problem, even though I always refuse to go through the diffusion scanner and sometimes have to wait up to 20 minutes for someone to pat me down. It's recommended to arrive earlier for international flights.

However, not knowing which terminal to go to is not a good reason to arrive early. Instead, you should simply go to https://www.jfkairport.com/ on your cellphone (the same site linked at the beginning of the article) and input the name of your airline into the search bar, and then you will see what terminal to go to. The AirTrain also has a directory of airlines for each terminal where it stops. If you take (or, IMO, make the mistake of taking) any kind of shuttle bus or supershuttle, the driver will also tell you what terminal to go to. Taxi drivers normally know where to let you off, too, though it sure wouldn't hurt for you to double-check before leaving or even en route. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:06, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

 * I was just copying the information from the New York City article. Thank you for improving it. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:09, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

 * Glad to help. I literally will check the terminal on my cellphone while on the A train to the airport, though I usually also get a text from the airline with that info while I'm on my way to the airport. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:32, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * International flight early arrival for well managed airports like jfk: hwever up to 3 hours before for places like Delhi and Denpasar for examples - due to massive crowds and inadequate staffing for the various stages of departing JarrahTree (talk) 00:38, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Dynamic map
I'm sorry, but I can't see how this map is useful, and I intended to revert the addition of it once already (it looks like I removed mapshape, not mapframe, though). My edit summary specified why:

"Pardon me, but this really is less useful than the static map. It has no labels." (OK, now I see two roads are labeled, but so what? The terminals are not, the Air Train is not shown, etc.)

Really, I can't see any good reason to put dynamic maps willy-nilly into every article, no matter how useless or unnecessary they are in certain cases. Please defend the superior utility of this dynamic map before I delete it entirely. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:46, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

 * Slow down a minute. The terminals are labeled: just click on them like you do with a marker on any other dynamic map. And the AirTrain was shown, until you removed it in your mistaken edit; I've restored it just now. So the dynamic map isn't as useless as you make it sound.
 * The dynamic map may not be labeled quite as well as the static map, but I wouldn't say it's redundant or useless. It shows colors that match the "districts" for each terminal, which the static map doesn't. It lets readers zoom and pan so they can see finer details or see how the airport is situated relative to the rest of the city and the subway system. And it will update itself if we add markers and listings in the rest of the text, such as markers to point out the stations on the AirTrain or nearby subway stops or the rental car center, or even locations inside the airport terminals.
 * I don't agree that having two different maps is a problem in and of itself. Dynamic maps are not a perfect replacement yet for static maps, but I don't think that means we shouldn't start using them. Among other benefits, doing so will help us find the weaknesses with dynamic maps that need to be improved. And complaining that a map is incomplete is not a helpful complaint on a wiki: surely the solution is to improve the map or the listings that are building it, not to remove the map. --Bigpeteb (talk) 21:22, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

 * But there is a preexisting map that is better and could also be improved. I really don't see the point. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:40, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
 * No, we're not going to relitigate the "what's wrong with having two identical maps" question. That's already been settled. The dynamic map is redundant and should be deleted. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 01:49, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I guess I missed or couldn't find where the question of having both types of map on one page was settled previously. Could you link me to the relevant policy and/or disccussion(s) so I can catch up?
 * Nevertheless, if only one map is allowed, why should the default answer be "remove the dynamic map"? What if we instead leave the dynamic map up for a few days (so editors can see the results of their changes), work on adding markers and geocoding listings, and then remove the static map once the dynamic map shows as much or more information? --Bigpeteb (talk) 16:19, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

 * If anything should be added to the static map, perhaps we could ask User:Shaundd to do it. But the reason, really, is that the static map is clear and complete and it's pretty simple to cover an airport, which isn't likely to change drastically for some time to come. Don't you agree that there are more important tasks than reinventing the wheel? Certainly, there are articles with no maps or static maps that are much further from exemplary than on this page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:45, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

 * Hi Ikan, I'm of two minds on this. On one hand I'd like to help out, but on the other, my feeling is static maps have nearly zero support in the community so I'm not sure it's worth the time to fix one up if someone is going to complain about it being a static map and put up a dynamic map anyway. If there is a consensus the static map should be kept and there's agreement on what needs to be changed, let me know and I'll be happy to help out. -Shaundd (talk) 06:31, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

 * Completely understood. User:Bigpeteb, can you enumerate anything that's currently lacking or outdated about this static map? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:01, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Hmm... I suppose not. The static map is a little large for my liking, so it's hard to read without enlarging it, but that's a minor complaint. Aside from that, I suppose it's fairly complete. This airport article redirects to nearby districts for hotels, so there aren't any markers to add for hotels, nearby restaurants, etc.
 * Alright, I concede. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The static map is good enough. Away with the dynamic map. --Bigpeteb (talk) 16:12, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Cool. Thanks for addressing this in good faith. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:15, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi Ikan Kekek, Bigpeteb, I agree the map is a bit hard to read without enlarging, even on a desktop, and it was one of the things I thought needed to change when I first looked the map. I think readability is important so I can go in an adjust the font and font sizes -- does that sound good? -Shaundd (talk) 16:47, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually, I'll have to take that back. The image is PNG only, there's no SVG to edit. I can ask PerryPlanet if he has an SVG version of the map. -Shaundd (talk) 16:55, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
 * That would be awesome if it's possible. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:00, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Renovations?
A New JFK Pashley (talk) 15:33, 20 July 2023 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Johnstone

Nothing on this locall? --(WT-en) O013 11:06, 29 December 2009 (EST) I thought WikiTravel doesn't accept blank outline articles spaces? --(WT-en) O013 11:06, 29 December 2009 (EST)

 * Blank articles encourage content to be added, as I am sure you will do for Johnstone :). Also when a city is being districted or a country regionalised, they are unavoidable. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:46, 29 December 2009 (EST)

 * User:Burmesedays did u get the messages on Johnstone talk? --(WT-en) O013 11:48, 29 December 2009 (EST)

 * I am sure that was a cache issue. If you see a post has been made in recent changes but it does not appear in the article, then, edit and hit the purge cache button at the bottom of the edit screen and you will get the latest version of the article. Happens sometimes. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:55, 29 December 2009 (EST)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Johnstone


text:
Talk:Johor

''This is the VFD discussion for South (Malaysia). The article has been redirected to this page.'' — (WT-en) Ravikiran 01:07, 25 March 2006 (EST)

South_(Malaysia)

 * Delete - practically containing just one state, Johor, so don't think need a separate page. Currently retained as a redirect to Johor but now, other pages amended to link directly to JOhor.(WT-en) Slleong 05:39, 9 March 2006 (EST)
 * Keep (as it's already a redirect)
 * Delete. -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 15:31, 14 March 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Johor


text:
Talk:Johor Bahru

This is some really great information! Very well done! (WT-en) Majnoona 02:55, 25 Jun 2004 (EDT)

This page was very helpful, Thanks!!

Updated: Immigration Card/ White Card requirement for entry into Johor Bahru
The Immigration Card/ White Card requirement for entry into Johor Bahru for foreigners is now required (again).Check out http://www.limsimi.com/Links/Malaysia_Latest_White_Card_Requirement.htm

Immigration Card/ White Card requirement for entry into Johor Bahru
The Immigration Card/ White Card requirement for entry into Johor Bahru for foreigners may kick in again on 19.07.2008. Check out http://www.limsimi.com/category/general-information/

CW-3 across Second Link?
Is CW-3 actually running across the Second Link now? This has been rumored since 2003 but I can't find any confirmation. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:38, 20 Dec 2005 (EST)

Over the years, now December 2010, CW-3 has changed its terminal twice. Recently, wef 8 December 2010. Its bus terminal will be terminated at Taman Perlin, near GIANTS (before 8 December is at Bukit Indah near to JUSCO). Just for updated information

Get in section reorganisation
I have reorganised this section a little bit to a way I, and I believe other users, would be more comfortable with. I did not take out any of the text, although I feel it could be shortened a bit. I hope no one is violently opposed to the changes. 202.184.114.200 10:06, 27 Jan 2006 (EST)

Spelt
I see no reason for the editor to get huffy about the spelling of this word given that the person who originally contriubuted the text used "spelled." Secondly, as a word basically unseen in American usage, current policy supports using "spelled". Personally, I never remove Commonwealth Englishisms in the text except when someone corrects American spelling into Commonwealth gratuitously. -- (WT-en) Colin 10:42, 2 Feb 2006 (EST)

Senai International Airport operator
All Malaysian airports are officially privatised. All except Senai are operated by Malaysia Airports Holdings Bhd (MAHB) while Senai is operated by Senai Airport Terminal Services Sdn Bhd (SATS), a company linked to Malaysian businessman Syed Mokhtar. MAHB used to run Senai too but Syed Mokhtar managed to win a concession to run the airport in 2003. Thus, it is not really accurate to say Senai is the only privately operated airport in Malaysia.202.188.40.56 11:27, 16 Feb 2006 (EST)

 * MAHB is government-owned, so the difference to an actual government-run corporation is largely theoretical. SATS is 'really' private. But this stuff doesn't actually matter for the traveler, so I've just deleted the whole phrase. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:32, 16 Feb 2006 (EST)

 * Indeed it is a government-linked-company. But I agree deleting the whole phrase is best. For some reason I didnt have the guts to do it (yeah, it was me posting the earlier discussion, i forgot to log in).(WT-en) Slleong 03:07, 17 Feb 2006 (EST)

Is JB the crime capital of Malaysia?
Is it true JB is crime infested and armed robberies occured every month even though there are nearby police stations?

Crime happens everywhere - it is difficult to pinpoint JB as the crime capital of Malaysia (other places such as Klang and Petaling Jaya are also "hit"). However, over the past few years, crime rate in JB has indeed gone up (from a JB resident viewpoint, not police statistics). It is really sad when "law-abiding citizens locked themselves in their house at night, while the "negative elements" roamed the streets".

I have done some re-arrangement
I have done some minor and major re-arrangement and hoped that everyone who has contributed so far is fine with it. I have yet to edit anyone else's text except maybe the rack rates of some hotels. I have made a few headers without much contents as i am not familiar with that particular place/topic so i do hope people would be kind enough to fill them in. Let's make this page on Johor Bahru a great one. cheers and thanks to all :)

Crime in Johor
Having lived in Johor for 14 years, after a life time of roaming the world, I can honestly state that Johor is one of the safer places. Of course there is crime, there is crime everywhere, but I have always felt completely safe whether shopping downtown, walking the dog through the lovely old plantation kampongs or driving up and down to Tanjong Leman (2 hours north on the Mersing road) in order to get to my business on Pulau Sibu. Speaking of which, if I have ever broken down on the road the only thing I have ever suffered from is a surfeit of help. Having been widowed and left with two babies to bring up I am constantly grateful that fate led me to Johor, a gentle way of life. P.S. I'm not some kind of soft in the head idiot but a pretty hard nosed businesswoman!

Taxis from singapore
If you come into Singapore airport you should take an airport taxi to "Queen Station". It is a special taxi stand in downtown Singapore at which Malaysian cabs line up to take people to JB. At Singapore airport, go get a cab with a METER - (NOT that 'flat rate' cabs - they cost too much). The meter cab is ~$S20. Then at Queen Station there is a cab manager who will line you up with a Malaysian cabbie to take you to JB. Fare to my hotel (Puteri Pacific) was $S35. And the cabbie had all the immigration forms for Malaysia. It is about 20 mintes from the airport to Queen Station, and another 40 minutes to JB, including the wait at Singapore immigration at one end of the causeway (to leave) and Malaysia immigration at the other end of the causeway (to enter). The cabbie takes care of all of it - we never even got out of our cab.

Article lengths and itemized bus tables
They also have intercity bus schedules for the Wikivoyage article on Kuala Lumpur and Malacca, with the names of the bus companies, destinations, frequency, times of departures and ticket prices indicated. The only thing that is different between the Johor Bahru intercity bus schedule and the Kuala Lumpur/Malacca intercity bus schedules is that the information in the latter is not put in a table format. I have a lot of time and effort compiling the Johor Bahru intercity bus schedule. I feel that this information is useful for travellers planning to go by bus to various destinations in West Malaysia. Message from Lawrence, 24 October 2011

 * Let's bring it up on the article talk page. My concern is that this article has too much detail already-- it's only a city of 900,000, yet it is the absolute longest city article we have, longer than the articles for cities many times bigger, and it's the 3rd longest article we have overall, after only China and Japan. That means that this article needs big cuts. I don't know the city well enough to cull restaurant or hotel listings, but I do know that, despite the fact that you can find other articles with intricately detailed bus information, we generally do not maintain these kinds of line-by-line detailed compendiums when there are as many options as this article has. There are other tables and lists still in the article that I think should be cut as well. (WT-en) texugo 23:50, 23 October 2011 (EDT)
 * It's ironic too, that, even though it is the longest city article we have, even the lede states that the city doesn't have much for tourists... (WT-en) texugo 06:54, 24 October 2011 (EDT)

Article is no longer available
"There is currently no text in this page".

The Wikivoyage article on Johor Bahru has been totally removed by someone. I saw the error message above on 26 Jan 2012. Can the administrator restore the article?

From Leo, Sydney (Australia)

 * That was weird! It wasn't that easy to restore the text, either. I really have no idea why. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 04:04, 26 January 2012 (EST)

Why was this new image self-reverted?
I am puzzled by this edit.

I have now restored the new image until such time as I am told here a reason why it should not be used in this article. At the same time, I have taken the opportunity to make a start on preparing this article for Star status so that it conforms to our Manual of Style regarding such matters as consistent use of Commonwealth English, the 24 hour clock and Abbrev., Units, Dates, $ and updated immigration requirements etc. -- A l i c e ✉  04:53, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

 * The edit may have arisen from the replacement of an image temporarily 'mislaid' or 'broken' in the migration. Peter is not in the habit of doing 'weird' things here and the edit note does mention "broken" so that is a likely explanation. File:JBSentral_Night.JPG seems OK now, as does File:Railway.JPG both seem to be working now. So I am putting the old one back in as well for now. Having a photographic depiction of both the 'old' and the 'new' railway stations appears to be in the travellers interest. If anyone objects then let it be known here. Alice seems to be working on the article so that may mean that things are moving about a bit while that is taking place. --  Felix  ( talk )  10:28, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It was precisely because the first edit by Peter replaced the (at that time) 'mislaid' or 'broken' image File:Railway.JPG with a working non red-linked image that I was so puzzled by the self-revert back to File:Railway.JPG. Thanks for positioning and sizing the restored file appropriately, Felix. -- A l i c e ✉ 23:21, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Removal of Comparisons with Singapore
I noticed that has been cleaning up this article a lot lately. While most of your work is good and appreciated I'd like to just point out a few things. So yes, while we do not need to compare everything with Singapore, and we should not sensationalise things, let's keep in mind that WV is meant to a practical travel guide, and not a collection of promotional articles for different travel destinations. This means that we should endeavour to include all information that is relevant for travellers, regardless of whether they portray a place in a good or bad light. The dog2 (talk) 20:59, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Keep in mind that Wikivoyage is a travel guide, and that the traveller comes first. While excessive comparison with Singapore is not needed, keep in mind that simply because of proximity, many visitors, including many non-Singaporeans, will visit Johor Bahru as part of a day trip from Singapore. Therefore, I think that some comparisons with Singapore are warranted, on the condition that the comparisons made are actually useful for travellers to know.
 * In WV, one of our policies is to be fair. This means that we want to describe the situation as it is, with both the good and the bad. I understand that as a Malaysian (correct me if I'm wrong), it may be hard for you to swallow whenever anyone makes an unfavourable comparison about something in Malaysia with Singapore. That being said, we have to provide an accurate description of the situation whenever if affects travellers. For instance, it is a fact that most things in Johor Bahru are cheaper than Singapore, so if you want to save money, it is worth considering picking a hotel in Johor Bahru instead. But of course, there is the downside that the crime rate is higher, so you have to take more precautions when you walk around. Of course, there is no need for sensationalism; Johor Bahru is no Caracas or Tegucigalpa, but things like these do affect travellers and should be mentioned. If you look at the Shenzhen and Guangzhou articles, similar comparisons are made with Hong Kong, and even at the country level, you do see some similar comparisons in the Switzerland article with Germany.

12- hour or 24- hour clock?
Per wv:tdf, times should be shown using either the 12-hour clock or the 24-hour clock, depending which us more commonly used in the country. Talk:Malaysia advises us to use the 12-hour clock, but this article switches back and forth between tge 5PM and 17:00 formats. Which us correct? Ground Zero (talk) 02:12, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Shopping malls and supermarkets
This article lists 14 supermarkets and 21 shopping malls. Wikivoyage us intended as a travel guide not a business directory. Wv:listings advises us that: We can provide a few supermarkets located near hotels, but a long list if supermarkets is not appropriate. And a list of 21 malls shows that were not listing the particularly important ones.
 * "Listings should be for businesses and attractions that are relevant or interesting for travelers."
 * "It's a good idea to note particularly important malls that a traveler would want to visit"

Could someone familiar with the city cut these lists down? If not, then I will do so based on the descriptions. Ground Zero (talk) 14:20, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

 * Since I got no response to my request, I've gone ahead and cut down the 21 malls to 14, and cut all if the supermarkets but one.
 * I deleted the malls that had no description since we should include only the most interesting places. 14 is still too many, and I'd appreciate help in reducing this list further. I also deleted the IKEA because travellers usually don't shop for furniture.
 * As the supermarkets are all out in the suburbs, they aren't useful to most travellers who stay in city centers. I left in the one that is closest to the centre.
 * I dont like deletjhg other users' contributions, but it us important that we keep Wikivoyage as a useful travel guide in order to attract readers. If it become a directory of all businesses,  then few people will read it. Let's stick out our mandate. Ground Zero (talk) 06:02, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Johor Bahru


text:
Talk:Joinville

Would it be worth adding a photo to this article to give readers a better feel for the city? If so, I think something appropriate could be found on Wikipedia's 'Joinville' page. Opinions would be appreciated!

 * Yes. Please make sure the license is compatible (public domain or Creative Commons). (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:43, 16 November 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Joinville


text:
Talk:Jonathan, Scotland

To the anonymous user who created this page: Are you the "well-meaning new user" your graphic refers to? Did someone delete, or suggest deleting, a contribution you made? It sounds to me like you are angry about some such incident.

You can comment about such things on the discussion page for the article in question, or on the votes for deletion page, or on the talk page of the user in question. If you created an account, others could put messages on your talk page too. Why not try one of those methods? (WT-en) Pashley 04:57, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

 * The user's is just a 14 or 15 year old high school kid, who has some kind of inferiority complex and to compensate he/she comes here so they get attention.
 * The image is a result of the editing tools at the top of the editing page. If you click the button between "A" and what appears to be a trumpet it includes an image link.  Click here to look. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 06:38, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Jonathan, Scotland


text:
Talk:Jonava

Nezinau ar reiketu turistus i visokius "nightclub Banga" siuntineti :)) —The preceding comment was added by 223.204.30.223 (talk • contribs) 10:33, 29 March 2011

 * If you think Banga has a bad reputation or simply a crappy place, please remove it from the article (see our Project:Avoid negative reviews policy page pertaining to this).
 * Oh, and if that's another kind of "nightclub", it might be a violation of Project:Sex tourism policy, and thus should be removed.
 * That would be great if you could write some quick descriptions to other listings, too, if possible.
 * (I hope I understood the robot translation of the original Lithuanian post correctly.) – (WT-en) Vidimian 13:07, 29 March 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Jonava


text:
Talk:Jordan

For future reference the Project:CIA World Factbook 2002 import can be found at Talk:Jordan/CIA World Factbook 2002 import. -- (WT-en) Huttite 02:06, 2 Apr 2005 (EST)

Aqaba is not linked to sinai, but to eilat which is linked to sinai

Regions

I just drew a map of Jordan, but no regions have been decided yet, and I haven't been there, so I just guessed.... if anyone is familiar with the country, please comment about this division, and if you think certain provinces should be moved to different regions, regions renamed, etc. Here's what I'm thinking:

 * Northern Jordan
 * Eastern Jordan
 * Central Jordan
 * Southern Jordan

Thoughts? – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 21:15, 31 May 2009 (EDT)

 * Looks good, but I'd include Amman in the north, as most people will visit it with that area. Now it's a bit of a lone star in the eastern desert region.
 * I also think we could come up with some better names for the areas.
 * Northern Jordan -> Not sure what to call this, I guess Northern Jordan is fine. Maybe "Amman and Jerash"
 * Eastern Jordan -> Eastern Desert (as long as Amman is excluded)
 * Central Jordan -> King's Highway
 * Southern Jordan -> Southern Desert
 * --(WT-en) globe-trotter 10:16, 11 January 2010 (EST)
 * --(WT-en) globe-trotter 10:16, 11 January 2010 (EST)
 * --(WT-en) globe-trotter 10:16, 11 January 2010 (EST)

 * I like the new names, although I am ambivalent about the two options for Northern Jordan, and the division looks sensible from my relatively ignorant perspective. This also looks like it may never need further subdivision, which is always ideal for a country this small. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:39, 12 January 2010 (EST)

 * Moving Amman to the north looks right to me also. Othwerwise, this seems very good indeed. I think it should be taken live and the regionalisation done.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 21:05, 20 January 2010 (EST)

 * I'll just plunge forward and get this done :) --(WT-en) globe-trotter 14:45, 21 January 2010 (EST)

 * Oh, it seems like the SVG file is missing! --(WT-en) globe-trotter 14:47, 21 January 2010 (EST)

Moving Jordan to Jordan (country)
Just to inform that Jordan will be transferred to Jordan (country) to avoid confusion because there's also a city named Jordan in the Philippines. - (WT-en) SnappyHip 11:48, 14 February 2010 (GST)

Get in copyvio?
Someone twice deleted the get in section today stating "Copyright issue with the visa information", but it isn't clear where this info is believed to be copied from. A Google search turns up numerous sites with the same text, but the ones I looked at had all copied the information FROM Wikivoyage. If this really is a copyvio, please indicate where it was copied from and it will be quickly rewritten or removed. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 13:35, 6 May 2012 (EDT)

Data is copied from projectvisa.com. See archive.org if you want history.

List of Embassies
Is there any good reason not to delete this list? Wikivoyage practice is to list embassies in the city where they're located, which in this case would be Amman. I'll wait for a day or so to see if there's any reasoned objection before I delete the list in this article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:49, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

 * All merged into Amman, accordingly. Many need basic contact info (street address, telephone number, etc.) to be added. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:15, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Zionist nonsense
This is an article about Jordan, why does anyone around here think its OK for the article to be centered around Israel? Sorry, but the universe does NOT revolve around you/your country/your political aspirations. Mad facist Zionist political fantasies and fetishes have no place here. That mad propagagandic demeaning content has been online for a year, it won't last any one more second on this site. -Makeandtoss (talk) 10:47, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

 * I seriously doubt anyone wants the article to be inaccurate in any direction, but your edit scrubbed a lot of information from the article. If you think it makes sense to completely ignore the history of the West Bank and East Jerusalem in an article about Jordan, I would beg to differ. The "History" section should also mention the large number of Palestinian refugees who were welcomed in after the 1948 and 1967 wars and the "Black September" war. Your edits made the section into pure propaganda for the government of Jordan. The standard on this site is be fair. If you'd like to argue that x, y and z that were in the article were not fair, please do, though you'll be more persuasive if you tone down your rhetoric, but scrubbing so much information is not likely to strongly support such an argument. In other words, I'm suggesting that you both discuss and be open to some kind of fair compromise between what's there and what you'd like to delete. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:03, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

 * "Propaganda for the government of Jordan" very amusing.. Do you know that propaganda means the sharing of false information? Now lets see how I eliminated propaganda:
 * "When Jordan came under British administration following World War I, it was at first part of the Mandate for Palestine, which meant that Jews were allowed to settle there."
 * Jews were prevented to settle in Transjordan by the Transjordan memorandum
 * "Thus in a sense Jordan became the first "Palestinian state" and it did in fact identify itself as such after independence when it acquired the area that now comprises the West Bank in the 1948 war against Israel."
 * In what sense exactly? "identify itself as such" !!!! Are we rewriting history??? That never happened.
 * The West Bank was annexed and treated as an integral part of Jordan, with East Jerusalem (and its holy sites) off limits to Jews and Palestinians often treated as second class citizens compared to Jordan's Bedouin ruling class."
 * " treated as second class citizens", they had seats amounting to half the parliament! Second class? Do we even have a source for that? Does this project even use sources?
 * "a large internal Palestinian population,"
 * How large? Misleadingly vague.
 * "While Jordan does not have to handle the sheer number of refugees from Syria that Lebanon has to deal with"
 * False
 * "and the British influence is still strong"
 * When they don't speak English you call them ignorant, when they do, you call them a product of colonization. I have been living in this country for my entire life and I have never once heard a person speaking with a British accent. ::Its a "western influence", and it is certainly not standing from the times of British administration some 70 years ago.
 * "the vast number of Caucasian immigrants that arrived during the early 1900s"
 * Whoever reads this would assume that the Caucasian immigrants are equal to the number of Palestinians.
 * Most of the information here was added in a biased context, with zero historical accuracy. You are more than welcome to return key information about Jordan's history, such as the occupation of the West Bank. But the current state of the content, is a plain fictional spin-off. Not acceptable in any way. --Makeandtoss (talk) 11:24, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Most of the information here was added in a biased context, with zero historical accuracy. You are more than welcome to return key information about Jordan's history, such as the occupation of the West Bank. But the current state of the content, is a plain fictional spin-off. Not acceptable in any way. --Makeandtoss (talk) 11:24, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

 * I provisionally reverted all your deletions to the "History" subsection, unaware that you had given this response. I will add some of the points you made, but please, before you delete information again, detail what's wrong with it, such as that it isn't factual because of x, y and z, and if it's longer than can fit in an edit summary, post about it here first. Calling it "Zionist nonsense" and making remarks about fascism and all that other stuff is just likely to antagonize people who disagree with your point of view, and arguing about points of view on history is not what Wikivoyage is about, though whether content is fair or not is quite relevant. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:30, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Sorry, but the text in its current form is unacceptable. Its not my point of view, I have read lengthy books and analyses on the history of Jordan, and not once have I encountered something like this. They're fictional spinoffs. There is a difference between facts and opinions, for example, "identified itself as such" is not an opinion, it is presented as an indisputable fact, which is indisputably demeaning. --Makeandtoss (talk) 11:34, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

 * [Edit conflict] I just looked up the Trans-Jordan memorandum. It was passed by the Council of the League of Nations in 1922, the same year that Trans-Jordan was separated from the rest of the Palestine Mandate. So it looks like the current phrasing in the article is accurate. I think I will leave it to you to make piecemeal edits to the "History" subsection, but please be careful to be accurate in your edits. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:35, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

 * I am a new user here. Does this site use sources? Or is it open for anyone to add fiction? Is the site connected to Wikipedia? I have been editing the Jordan article there and its on the verge of becoming a Good Article, the history section is completely sourced, discussed and compromised. I can copy paste it here or copy paste concise parts. --Makeandtoss (talk) 11:41, 29 July 2016 (UTC)
 * "Jews were allowed to settle there". What is "there"? The boundaries of Transjordan and the boundaries of the British Mandate of Palestine were not even defined in 1922, not to mention them being defined between 1920 and 1922. Here's the proof. I am knowledgeable about every single piece of information about Jordan, I know what I am doing and I am not here for POV pushing or "working for the government". --Makeandtoss (talk) 11:45, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

 * This site is a travel guide. It is a sister site of Wikipedia, not part of Wikipedia. You'll want to read Welcome, Wikipedians for some information about how the two sites are different. Sources aren't cited in articles but certainly can be cited on talk pages, as you just did.

 * To address your specific point: Was there any British law or regulation preventing Jewish settlement on the East Bank of the Jordan before 1922? If you know of any such law or regulation, please share that information. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:56, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

 * The text is still inaccurate. Transjordan was separated in 1922, the West Bank and Gaza were separated in 1948, 26 long years. The Mandate was not divided into Transjordan, West Bank, Gaza and Israel all at once.. Palestinians were stripped of Jordanian citizenship in 1988, so? Palestinians in Israel have Israeli citizenship.. It is mentioned in a way that is intended to say that Jordan and Palestine are identical. Jordan did not annex the West Bank, stance was stressed during an Arab league meeting in 1951. " a de facto state within a state" that is a spinoff of historical sources, which mention that the paramilitary fedayeen were threatening Jordan's rule of law becoming a state within a state not a "de facto state". --Makeandtoss (talk) 12:02, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

 * [Edit conflict] By the way, I did make some edits that were an attempt to improve the "History" section. Copying from Wikipedia wholesale is probably not advisable because it will likely be too detailed for a travel guide, and also because we don't use footnotes on this site, but some summarizing or paraphrasing from the Wikipedia article, with a mention in your editing summary that it's from there, would be fine. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:04, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Please go ahead and edit any of the things you're referring to immediately above which are false or misleading. However, unless you have evidence that Jewish settlement of the East Bank was prohibited by the British prior to 1922, please concede that point. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:07, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

 * The Wikipedia content is definitely much better than what we had here before, but it definitely needs to be summarized, and please remove the footnotes. Thank you very much, and I think that in the end, the results of your edits are likely to be universally agreed to be a big improvement. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:20, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

 * You're welcome. --Makeandtoss (talk) 12:32, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

Regarding the "Palestinian-ness" of Jordan
Now I am trying to stay out of political debates on this wiki and hope they stay the exception rather than the rule and I am especially weary of debates on the topic of Israel as they tend to both incite passions and draw unsavory aspects of the internet. That being said, our sister project Wikiquote (and I have heard this quote/statement/narrative elsewhere) makes it appear as if King Hussein himself had called Jordan a/the Palestinian state: it's the only quote. That is the main thing I wanted to add to that debate, I have had too many pointless political debates elsewhere on the Internet and I appreciate WV being mostly politics-free, but that does not mean we should endorse blatant propaganda by any side. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:50, 31 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh really? What about the Jordanian-ness of Palestine? West Bank is almost annexed by Israel, we can also say that Israel is Jordanian? Please. The quote is with zero context. How about some context? He did not mean what you are so eager to hear, it was exploited by right-wingers to advocate horrendous fantasies. --Makeandtoss (talk) 13:35, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * The context that you link to explains why he stopped saying that. I think it's inessential for a travel guide to get into that, so it's best to avoid the quote entirely.

 * However, I would also say that "Jewish settlement was limited to the part of the Palestine Mandate west of the Jordan" is purely factual and the statement of that fact doesn't "victimize" anyone. The current version is not as clear and I'm not sure how many readers, especially those for whom English is a second or third language, will understand it completely. Let's look at it:

 * In September 1922, the Council of the League of Nations recognized Transjordan as a state under the British Mandate for Palestine and the Transjordan memorandum, and excluded the territories east of the Jordan River from the provisions of the mandate dealing with Jewish settlement.

 * For people who don't already know, doesn't that sentence beg the question of what the provisions of the mandate dealing with Jewish settlement were?

 * Since you strenuously object to using the word "limited", what form of words that makes clear that Jewish settlement to Transjordan was off-limits would you be OK with? Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:54, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

 * Dear Makeandtoss, I am not a right winger of any kind - quite the opposite. And the fact that Jordan was part of the initial mandate and only in 1922 was it declared off-limits for Jews is indeed very much something readers might want to know. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:09, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * What mandate?? I just linked a map to the borders of the region in 1920, there were nothing defined to be "limited". Syria and Lebanon were under one mandate too, for faaaaaar longer than Jordan was in the same mandate as Palestine (1920-1922). Transjordan was administered under Mandatory Palestine for 2 years, but that doesn't mean in any way they had any form of a unified borders or centralized government or shared the same fate (as seen in Transjordan memorandum). Now, 90+ years after a short-lived (2 years) meaningless unified administration, why does it matter? Just because Zionists would find it perfect to just settle all them "Ayyyrabs" from "Judea and Samaria" into "Jordon; the Palestinian nation". --Makeandtoss (talk) 18:42, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

 * Makeandtoss, I appreciate the excellent edits you've made to this article and other articles about places in Jordan, but you need to assume good faith and stop being paranoid. The sole purpose for mentioning that Jewish settlement east of the Jordan River was made off-limits is because it's significant background information that helps prospective visitors to understand the differences between how Jordan and the areas to the west of the Jordan River developed. Only a lunatic fringe would ever want to retroactively open Jordan to Jewish settlement, and if you really think such a desire is motivating any editors on this site, I can only suggest that you are barking up the wrong tree, to put it very mildly.

 * So let's return to my question: What form of words indicating that in 1922, Jewish settlement east of the Jordan River was prohibited would be acceptable to you? Because if the answer is "none", I think you are going to lose this argument, and I will tell you in advance that edit warring is not tolerated on this site. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:58, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

 * Hmm, yeah lunacy, no surprise there. Yeah I am paranoid, definitely., , , . This sentiment is alive and well, as you can see in these pictures. I will not tolerate the advertisement of this lunacy by a respectable website.
 * "In September 1922, the Council of the League of Nations recognized Transjordan as a state under the British Mandate for Palestine and the Transjordan memorandum, and excluded the territories east of the Jordan River from the provisions of the mandate dealing with Jewish settlemen" This statement is more than enough to describe whatever it was regarding "Jewish settlement". Its a travel article and a history section should be kept concise.
 * You too assume good faith, stop hinting I will be edit warring. Double standards. --Makeandtoss (talk) 22:35, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

 * You _are_ edit warring! And you will be blocked if you continue. Conciseness yes, obfuscation no. This site works by consensus. Consensus doesn't mean a minority of one can get his own way just by speaking in more extreme language in arguments. Either you concede on this and do other editing that would really help travelers, such as for example by posting information about Jordan's climate, or you have the choice of not editing or continuing to edit war and getting blocked. Your choice. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:46, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

 * Where is your argument? You are not interested in reaching consensus, you haven't replied to a single point I mentioned. --Makeandtoss (talk) 22:48, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

 * Your argument is that referring to the "provisions of the mandate dealing with Jewish settlement" and assuming all readers know what those provisions were is sufficiently clear. No-one else on this site seems to agree with you. Whereupon I ask you what form of words clearly stating that Transjordan was made off-limits to Jewish settlement in 1922 are acceptable to you, and you refuse to consider or propose any. And your overheated rhetoric in your arguments here and your edit summaries in your edit war weaken your argument. I'm really uninterested in having a debate about Zionism and in fact refuse to do so. Readers of this article don't need to know what Zionism is, anyway, but the fact that Jewish settlement was forbidden east of the Jordan River is a very significant historical fact, and pointing it out is neither Zionist nor anti-Zionist, nor is it pro- or anti-Jordanian, pro- or anti-Arab or anything else — merely factual. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:59, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * "In September 1922, the Council of the League of Nations recognized Transjordan as a state under the British Mandate for Palestine and the Transjordan memorandum, and excluded the territories east of the Jordan River from the provisions of the mandate dealing with Jewish settlement" it was simultaneous.. When Transjordan was determined to be under Mandatory Palestine, a decision was made simultaneously to prevent Jewish settlement. In other words, it was not promised to the Jews and then reconsidered, it was not promised at all because it had not been recognized yet by the League of Nations, concerning the Balfour declaration.. --Makeandtoss (talk) 23:08, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

 * I get your point, but you didn't make the point clearly enough in the article. It needs another sentence to the effect that "This meant that Jewish settlement to Transjordan was not allowed". Why is that statement a problem for you? You recognize that it's true. So shall we agree on this and move on? You've improved the "History" subsection greatly, and thanks for also adding information on climate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:16, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * "it was not allowed" implies that it was expected to be allowed, it was just simply underlined. --Makeandtoss (talk) 23:20, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't get that implication from those words. But the truth is, some people expected it to be allowed and others didn't. Are you saying there was an informal prohibition before that? If that's true, then fine, we can use a form of words to the effect you just posted, such as "meaning that what had been an informal prohibition on Jewish settlement in Transjordan was made explicit" or something like that. But why don't you propose a wording that would be clear and also acceptable to you? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:41, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Balfour declaration promised Jews a homeland in Palestine, but what exactly is "Palestine"? That question was answered right then... There was nothing promised to be prohibited, it was just to clear any potential confusion as Transjordan became under Mandatory Palestine. --Makeandtoss (talk) 23:51, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

Despite this being (kind of) besides the point, many Arab states (Jordan not among them IIRC) had sizable Jewish minorities up to the 1940s who were expelled upon the foundation of Israel. So in that sense Jordan being declared "no place for Jews" in 1922 does fit into a tragic and all-too often repeating narrative. At any rate neither the British nor anybody else ever explicitly outlawed Muslim, Christian or Arab settlement in any of those states - at least to my knowledge. The crusaders might have done some forced converting in their day, but that is centuries ago. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:11, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

 * With all due respect, my friend, that really is beside the point and the type of remark that you should anticipate being likely to provoke damaging off-topic debate.

 * So let's please get back to the topic. Does anyone object to the following form of words?

 * In September 1922, the Council of the League of Nations recognized Transjordan as a state under the British Mandate for Palestine and the Trans-Jordan memorandum. The memorandum clarified that the territories east of the Jordan River were excluded from provisions that allowed Jewish settlement in the Mandate.'

 * If there is some kind of problem with the accuracy of this statement, once again, Makeandtoss, I would ask you to please propose another phrasing. This discussion is taking up a disproportionate amount of time, and you could really help by explaining what form of words you'd be OK with. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:58, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I should not have gone there. This topic tends to push all sort of buttons, which is why it is wise trying to avoid it on WV as much as possible. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:46, 2 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Your phrasing is almost identical to the previous phrasing in the article, and with the slight modifications I did, I have no objection.
 * "tragic and all-too often repeating narrative" :), always the victim. --Makeandtoss (talk) 09:24, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

 * I'm very relieved we are now in agreement on an acceptable form of words and have inserted them into the article. We can't change history, but it's good to at least agree on what it was, to the extent sufficient for background information for travelers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:42, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

 * While the wording is a bit too roundabout for my tastes, I can live with it. Glad we can agree what the facts are. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:48, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

"Climate" subsection
The "Climate" subsection of "Understand" is empty. Would anyone like to try their hand at it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:53, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Nabateans
If information about Nabateans checks out, why not add something to that tune? Even if it was apparently added by a long standing vandal. Maybe someone should have a look at WP and then decide what to put there. Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:20, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

Travel between Syria and Jordan
(I moved the following from my talk page to draw more eyeballs, this is the edit we're talking about) Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:54, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi there, thank you for your continuous help. :-) Regarding the following warning under Jordan:

This seems a little arbitrary to me. For one thing, the war seems to be kind of won for Assad with the fall of Aleppo and the support from Russia. Also, I never had the impression that anything between the Jordan border and Damascus is really dangerous because the war mostly takes place in the north and northeast of Syria. There are some attacks on Damascus but it is not a war zone.

I believe we shouldn't just amplify here what mainstream media is teaching us. If you have anything more profound and maybe some links, I think this would be helpful. Also, the decision is on everyone's own side. It might be important to say, that there is a civil war going on and travelling there is dangerous, if this is really the case between Jordan and Damascus, but apart from that anything else should not be our decision. Also, we don't want to indicate that anyone still in Syria must be crazy, which is what this kind of sentence might suggest.

Maybe we should just write something like for Iraq in the first sentence, because this travel guide really concerns Jordan not Syria. Also, this is the chapter where advice on coming in to Jordan from Syria is given, hence, one already must be there in the first place.

What do you think?

Ceever (talk) 11:01, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I will move this discussion to the pub to draw more eyeballs. I hope that's okay with you Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:52, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

I don't quite follow. A warning box does not make a decision for a traveller; it provides advice. At least, that is how I interpret the phrase "it is strongly advised not to". A traveller can choose to accept or ignore that advice. As far as I can tell, the civil war is still going on, and I think this is a reasonable warning. Ground Zero (talk) 21:20, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I guess I would delete the warning, since it's placed in the "Get in" section, so the reader is presumably already in Syria and is now entering Jordan? --ButteBag (talk) 21:44, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I think we should simply replace the whole section with something like "due to the ongoing civil war, normal travel routes between Jordan and Syria are likely not operative, while refugees are leaving Syria to get to Jordan, keep in mind that you traveling this route might conceivably deprive a refugee of the opportunity to get to safety". Also keep in mind that most of our "get in" content is written in a way as to be applicable for the reverse trip (That's why we don't rehash it in "go next") Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:04, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I just wanted to avoid too many warning signs, because then we also have to have one for Iraq, and so on. This article concerns Jordan not Syria. "Words create reality" ... but everything is fine with Jordan so far, so let's not deter travellers with shocking images, even though it concerns Syria. Also, interesting way to see it in WikiTravel: "However, due to the current status in Syria you are unlikely to be able to travel from Damascus to Amman via taxi, as anyone out in the open is at risk of being shot by either government-controlled powers or the rebels." :-D Ceever (talk) 17:46, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

Currency notation
According to the article, the currency is commonly denoted by "JD", so why does Wikivoyage use "JOD"? Our policy is to prefer the common notation over ISO codes. Any objection to me changing it? Ground Zero (talk) 14:22, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

 * Hi there Ground Zero. According to which article? However, I checked some hotel website in Amman and their tour and room prices; there is actually a tendency to put the currency after the numbers. However, I have found that more hotels are using "JOD" instead of "JD". Furthermore, on my (official) Jordan Pass it states "JOD", though after the numbers again. So, should we move the notation after the numbers and keep it "JOD"? Cheers, Ceever (talk) 15:39, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
 * By "this article", I mean the article for which this is the talk page, not another article. See Jordan. The Jordan Times newspaper uses "JD". Expatistan uses "dinar", which is something we should consider, following precedent in Thailand, Morocco and other countries since the currency name is short and there is no accepted short form or symbol. Ground Zero (talk) 01:02, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I never heard people there say "dinar", rather they opt for JD when speaking. However, would we then have to put it after the numbers? Which is what they do. Ceever (talk) 02:05, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

So, are we agreed on changing the WV:$ standard to "100 JD"? Ground Zero (talk) 01:33, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Fine with it if all is changed at once. Ceever (talk) 23:22, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I am not able to run a bot to do this, so it will take some time. I don't think "all changed at once" is ever an expectation in Wikivoyage. We are volunteers here. Ground Zero (talk) 00:30, 18 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It's done. Ground Zero (talk) 13:07, 27 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Top! Ceever (talk) 23:57, 9 March 2018 (UTC)

Currency, time and spelling conventions
Below is a proposed infobox to let readers know which formatting conventions to use in Wikivoyage articles. Do you agree with these proposals? If you have direct knowledge of what is most commonly used in the country, please let us know. Ground Zero (talk) 12:38, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Moved to the top of this page. Ground Zero (talk) 04:53, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Cities
We have a list of 10 cities. Which are the 7+/-2 that are the most important for travellers, per the wv:7+2 policy? Ground Zero (talk) 02:27, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Since no-one has commented, I will propose to remove the following three cities from this article, based on their articles suggesting that there is little for a visitor to see or do in them. These will still appear in region articles.
 * Mafraq - only one point of interest
 * Azraq - two points of interest
 * Zarqa — this suburb of Amman has a zoo, and no other listings.
 * Any comments? Ground Zero (talk) 17:04, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Since we can have as many as 9 cities listed and there are 10, only 1 has to be removed. I'd suggest keeping Zarqa since it's the kingdom's 3rd-largest city. I'm not sure about the other two, but if one of them is kept, there's more content in the Azraq article than in the Mafraq article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:11, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * But we don't have to have 9, either. 7 is a good number to have. In fact, that is the recommended number. (wv:7+2 says: "Studies show people find it easier to handle lists of around seven items, so we have the 7±2 rule of thumb.") We should focus the readers' attention on the places that are of most interest in the whole country. If there are only 5 interesting places, we should list those 5. I don't think a place is interesting just because it has a large population. Zarqa's article doesn't make it sound interesting. Ground Zero (talk) 17:26, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * True, though it does have 3 universities. I surely wouldn't try to insist on keeping any of them in the list. (I have a vague memory that those studies were called into question at some point, but be that as it may, your point stands.) Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:29, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree with GZ. Having seven cities in the list means that somebody having worked on a city article or think some city otherwise is worth listing here, they can add it without getting reverted. I think that isn't unimportant. –LPfi (talk) 17:51, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

Should we add a mentioning of RSCN
RSCN (The Royal Society for the Conservation of Nature) is a very important tourism organisation in Jordan. Although its primary Goal is to conserve Nature, it is very active in Tourism by providing guided tours through their nature reserves and building lodges for tourists to stay. Therefore, it is would be very beneficial for a traveler to know this organisation. My idea was to add it to the Jordan page, but it might be considered advertisement, which is not allowed. What do you think about the issue? --Der graue Reisende (talk) 15:05, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * It sounds like it is worth mentioning. I'm not entirely sure where, but you might try writing something under "Do". If it sounds like advertising, I will edit it to to tone it down. Ground Zero (talk) 15:37, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * It sounds like an industry convention to me. Undoubtedly, its work is useful to visitors, but how is the meeting itself relevant to non-industry travelers? And if readers are already members of the industry, they wouldn't need to or be likely to look here for information on the convention. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:43, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I was thinking that the tours and lodges would be useful to our readers. I know we generally don't include tours, but this might be an exception, given the nature of the tour and the country. Ground Zero (talk) 20:38, 4 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I somehow misread this as being about a meeting. Yeah, sure, it's an official organization and can be listed in "Understand". Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:05, 4 May 2021 (UTC)

Jordan Help Desk
Hello fellow wikivoaygers. I had the idea of establishing a help desk for travelers. Visitors who wish to come to Jordan could pose questions there and editors could help them. I think this would be very helpful for travelers. We would have to confirm that with wiki voyage as a whole, I would assume, but what do you generally think of such an idea? Does anyone want to help me in my cause to advocate for this idea? --Der graue Reisende (talk) 09:25, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 * You could be a docent for Jordan. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:31, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Are we still promoting this? I mean Wikivoyage talk:Docents does not really seem to be active. Also, there are more reasonable alternatives, e.g. groups on Facebook with a huge community available. Why would we carry along something that just causes work but not much extra value?
 * Also, on OsmAnd (using Wikivoyage) such features are not supported, and also on Wikivoyage I doubt someone will look for an active discussion (beyond editing) group.
 * But I might be wrong ... Cheers Ceever (talk) 17:31, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Covid-19 situation 2022 Jan / Feb
Can someone give local information about the Covid-19 situation in Jordan? Governmental dashboard and rules published  on the Web indicate that the country is in total lockdown. Right or wrong? --Ppso (talk) 15:27, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jordan


text:
Talk:Jordanian Arabic phrasebook

Prasebook creation
I have created this phrasebook to incorporate the different Arabic dialect of the lower Levantine countries (excluding the Lebanese dialect, which interweaves French and Arabic). This phrasebook is a work in progress and, at this time, is only partially complete. I will continue to work on it over the next couple weeks in order to finish it. - (WT-en) Cybjorg 04:16, 17 Feb 2006 (EST)

 * Please note that some of the words in Arabic do not match with their English equivalents. For example, when asking someone's name, the writer has 'shoo ismik,' which is the correct collquial way of asking, but the accompanying Arabic actually says, 'ma ismik,' which is the more formal way of asking. Someone needs to go through the phrases and make sure the two match up in every case so as to not cause confusion, especially for someone just beginning to learn Arabic. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 91.186.245.146 (talk • contribs)

 * The above is still a problem, anyone going to try and fix it? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 84.108.95.65 (talk • contribs)

 * Is there any chance that you could fix it? Our philosophy is: if you see a problem, don't wait for someone else, plunge forward and make the changes yourself! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 12:45, 23 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Jordanian Arabic phrasebook


text:
Talk:Jostedalsbreen

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Comments
Somehow I was logged off when saving this article. Even I logged in when starting to write it. Is it possible to do anything about that? (WT-en) ViMy 217.149.118.18 00:02, 17 November 2008 (EST)

Sleep/backcountry
I suppose sleeping in the backcountry is allowed, but possibly realistic only on guided tours or not even then. Are overnight tours arranged? Is there good views to be had by hiking near the glacier, which one might be able to do without guides? I think a few words are needed to clarify. This also relates to whether the park or Jostedalsbreen as a destination is confined to the park; are people hiking in the neighbourhood of the glacier itself? --LPfi (talk) 08:37, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

 * Sure, camping in the wilderness is allowed, but camping on the glacier itself is only for experts or on guided tours. The NP is wider than the park and hiking is possible to viewpoints. --Erik den yngre (talk) 16:08, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

 * Thanks. I think it is much clearer now. --LPfi (talk) 09:57, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

To usable?
Would it be possible to get this up to usable? I suppose this article is the only city/other destination in Nordic countries still at outline. The requirements for usable are:
 * Has at least a couple of attractions with directions, information on fees and permits and accommodation, as well as a Get in section describing all of the typical ways to get there.

I think what needs to be done is to get explicit specifics. E.g. for Nigardsbreen in See:
 * From there departures a small boat over the lake in front of the glacier. The journeys takes 30 minutes. Observe from safe distance, guide needed for hike on the ice.

Does the boat travel non-stop in daytime or is there a timetable? What does it cost? One could tell in the listing that hikes are handled in Do. But is there a good view without taking the tour? If there is a phenomenal view from the boat or from the shore, so that a trip without a hike is worthwhile, that should be mentioned. Would it be worthwhile to climb to a lookout point after landing? Would that require equipment (such as shoes without high heels)?

And in Do:
 * Meet diect by the glacier

I suppose you'd have to take the boat. At least a pointer to the See listing would be needed, unless the directions are repeated. Does the tour need to be booked? I suppose equipment needed should be handled in an opening paragraph in Do.

I think such clarifications are what is needed to get the article to usable. As general description I think the article already is, but somebody really going there needs the specifics. No need to cover all highlights, tours and accommodations, at this stage just make sure there are a few that are described in enough detail. These could be the visitor centres and museums (are there tours or lookout points reachable from them?), Briksdalsbreen and Bøyabreen (already adequately described in See, I think), and the hikes in Do (which need more details like Nigardsbreen).

The Buy, Eat and Drink sections should be improved.
 * The Buy section could handle getting equipment and souvenirs. Where are the best places to get the latter? What is on offer? Is it easy to buy the last things needed in the surrounding towns and villages?
 * Eat could link to Sogn og Fjordane, but the section is empty. It could also tell about eateries near the entry points: are there adequate restaurants in all the surrounding towns, can you get food close to the lookout points and hiking start points, do you get food on the tours, should you buy food in advance for independent hikes?
 * What about drinking on hikes? Should you take water with you on the tours? On independent hikes?

What about the lodgings? Are the ones listed close to the park? Even in it? Are they for those on a hike or convenient when visiting a certain part of the glacier?

Would it be much work to do this? I suppose I could do part of it from the armchair, but only more or less trivial parts.

–LPfi (talk) 10:01, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Thanks LPfi for your good work. I think the main challenge is that entry points are scattered all around, with several hours drive between, map and another map. Entry points are basically the adjacent villages or towns for instance Stryn/Olden/Loen, Skei/Jølster, Sogndal/Fjærland, Luster. Erik den yngre (talk) 10:24, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Yes. I think we should concentrate on a few entry points and make sure transport, eat and sleep are covered, and make clear what attractions are in reach from each (and the other way round: make explicit from where an attraction can be reached). If we manage to handle 3–5 entry points, that would be enough for usable. We should make sure to use one name for each entry point and present it uniformly in listings. Then everybody planning a visit could choose between those and get any information they need. Those who wish could of course still use the general information to explore other options. –LPfi (talk) 10:40, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

 * , I'd support it to being usable. Aside from that, the first paragraph seems wordy though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 11:56, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Some of the info in the lead can be shifted to "understand" section. Erik den yngre (talk) 19:43, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jostedalsbreen


text:
Talk:Jotunheimen

Changed picture. Swapped it with one with higher resolution.(WT-en) ViMy 12:34, 12 June 2011 (EDT)

Alternative banner for this article?
I created a new alternative banner for this article (I initially created it first and foremost so that it would be used at the top of the parallel article in the Hebrew edition of Wikivoyage, yet I later decided to also suggest that the English Wikivoyage community would consider using it here as well). So, which banner do you prefer having at the top of this article? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 08:28, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Both banners are good. The alternative is more attractive. I don't know if we should hold back from using it, because correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe someone falls off while climbing up that mountain every year. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:50, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I kind of like the top one. None of the other pictures show snow. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 12:03, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

 * Besseggen and Gjende lake (lower photo) is one of the most popular hikes in Norway, there has been fatal accidents, but not every year I think. The top photo is Galdhøpiggen, Norway's highest summit, the approach is across a glacier. Gjende lake is one of Norway's finest. Besseggen's most narrow point is between Gjende and Bessvatnet lakes with different colors (see photo). In Ibsens play Peer Gynt Besseggen is called Gendine-Edge: "Have you ever chanced to see the Gendin–Edge? Nigh on four miles long it stretches sharp before you like a scythe. Down o’er glaciers, landslips, scaurs, down the toppling grey moraines, you can see, both right and left, straight into the tarns that slumber, black and sluggish, more than seven hundred fathoms deep below you." --Erik den yngre (talk) 12:19, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Erik den yngre, which one do you prefer? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 13:11, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * The lower one, with the lake, better colors and more distinct. But I am looking through the category for Jotunheimen at commons for possible alternatives. Erik den yngre (talk) 13:50, 13 September 2018 (UTC)

 * Alternative banner. --Comment by Selfie City  (talk about my contributions ) 14:36, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Alternative all the way! --ButteBag (talk) 23:20, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the alternative banner is much more eye catching. DethDestroyerOfWords (talk) 13:47, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

I've added the alternative banner. Feel free to add a caption if you kmow the place. --Comment by Selfie City  (talk about my contributions ) 14:08, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jotunheimen


text:
Talk:Journeys International

Is there an article outline for tour operators? (WT-en) David-journeys.travel 15:30, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Journeys International


text:
Talk:Juarez

do you have to have a passport to re enter the U.S. or will they let u through? I just need to go down there for a brief visit to the dentist but don't want to be stuck in mexico.
 * You don't need to worry about getting stuck in Mexico, if you don't have a passport, because border guards will probably not even let you through, especially if you're flying (don't know if Juarez has an airport), without a passport. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 18:32, 15 January 2008 (EST)

Safety
Juárez is, basically, unsafe. It has become a war zone. Even people who have weathered crime and violence in the past ten years no longer go there unless they absolutely have too. The murder rate has quadrupled in the last year.

 * If it is so bad, how come it is growing by 5 %? It is one of the fastest growing cities!  It is also a major port of entry with over 50K people crossing the border, if it was that bad, it wouldnt have that many people crossin the border.  I won't deny Juárez has high crime, but it aint no war zone.  Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee]  .T.A.L.K. 21:04, 24 November 2008 (EST).

 * I'm afraid you are mistaken, e.e... The cartels are getting really bad there, publishing lists of people they want killed, killing politicians and police officers execution style, etc. The media there only reports about 15% of what is really going on, because journalists end up on their hitlists too. Many people from El Paso who have gone there regularly all their lives have quit going there in recent months. (WT-en) Texugo 21:13, 24 November 2008 (EST)

 * Alright, I am just basing this on what I've learnt from the net, other sources, and people I know. Maybe one of those red thinggs at the topc? Keep Smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 21:18, 24 November 2008 (EST).

ee...Juarez's growth reflects the fact that Juarez has more jobs than many Mexican cities. It is also still a major port of entry. That being said, it is a battleground between the military, cartels, and other assorted criminals. 72.191.191.13

Also. Juarez has shrunk by 200,000 to 300,000 residents in the last year. Only an idiot would go there now. 69.171.160.21

Suggestions to update page
I'm putting this on the talk section because I feel any changes I make are going to be rolled back. I'm from Juárez, I lived here my whole life, I want to speak on behalf of my city:

Crime and safety at night

This one I'm glad is not outdated, and it's realistic instead of trying to scare people away from here, but I feel perhaps the wording could be more concise and offer more specific warnings, considering the layout of the city. Yes, sadly there is still cartel violence, and sadly women are still vulnerable pretty much nationwide. However there's a lot one can do to minimize the risk of running into crime here outside of the usual warnings:

- I'd highly recommend adding a tibdit about avoiding to travel south and southeast of the International Airport, outisde of situations where you're leaving the city, going to Cerro Bola through Camino Real or to the Samalayuca Dunes. There really isn't anything noteworthy down there, and Valle de Juárez (the general name of the area) is the one hit most by remaining cartel violence.

- Downtown is a mixture of safe and seedy areas during nighttime. Both the street of Av. Juárez and the neighborhoods surrounding it are the safest to be around during nighttime. Oddly enough, the main streets are the ones that me and most other people I've talked to are the ones that feel most unsafe during nighttime. Small neighborhood streets are oftentimes lively with the activity of the residents, nowadays it's common to see people outside just hanging out, on a barbacue or other outdoor activities.

- Blvd. Gómez Morín is a hotspot for nightlife. If you're driving, watch out for groups of people jaywalking going from bar to bar. Nowadays with the pandemic this is no longer the issue, but once everything lifts I believe it's safe to say these events will come back. So watch out.

- Despite my recommendations: If you feel unsafe in an area, it's best to trust your gut instinct and leave. There's no shame in it. Nothing may even happen, but if you can't enjoy yourself due to feelings of anxiety, what's even the point of staying?

Things to do

Bullfighting? Really? You come to one of the largest cities of Northern Mexico and the only three things listed is eating chips, going to a downtown market and watching a bullfight? We're living in 2020 for goodness' sake. I get some people look forward to that stereotypical Mexican experience when they travel to this country but it's such a disservice to both the tourist and the destination. Here are some things I'd recommend:

- Take a stroll through the downtown area of the Cathedral, check out the markets and cafes. While you're there, give the Revolution Museum (Museo de la Revolución en la Frontera) a visit.

- Check out the famous Av. Juárez and have a drink at the Kentucky Bar.

- Check out Juan Gabriel's mansion in downtown.

- Visit El Chamizal park and visit the Archaeology Museum (Museo de Arqueología e Historia de El Chamizal).

- Visit Central Park (Parque Central) and visit the La Rodadora children's museum.

- Shop and dine at Las Misiones mall.

- Catch an outdoor event at the Plaza de la Mexicanidad, and also take a striking photo of The X.

- Alternatively, catch an event at the Paseo del Norte cultural center. Depending on the event, both indoor and outdoor events are hosted there.

- If you come by August/September, go to the Tlaquepaque, a convention where artisans from the rest of Mexico and the world gather to sell their wares.

- Check out the nightlife and dining at Blvd. Gómez Morín.

- Have a fine dining experience at Blvd. Tomás Fernández.

- Travel through Cerro Bola via the Camino Real road.

- Eat authentic burritos pretty much everywhere.

- Check out all the different cafes Juárez has to offer. This one in particular is such a popular activity the official site has a map featuring the most popular cafes.

- Gamble in any of the many casinos in the city. Most are within the more popular malls (Las Misiones, Plaza Sendero, Galerías Tec) or in high-transit and safe streets (Ejército Nacional, Blvd. Gómez Morín).

- Drive through the city and enjoy the scenery.

- And, of course, there's plenty more to do if your visit includes our sister city: El Paso, Texas.

Places to stay

There's literally only two hotels listed in the page which is surprising, considering we get frequent business travelers to this city, so plenty of hotels have popped up. The street where the Las Misiones mall is located, Av. Paseo de la Victoria, has plenty of options, many inexpensive:

- Hotel María Bonita

- Courtyard by Marriot Juárez

- Holiday Inn Express & Suites

- Hotel Ibis

- City Express Junior

- Extended Suites Juárez

- Hotel Mesaluna

- Conquistador Inn

- Hotel Consulado Inn

There's other notable hotels outside this area:

- La Quinta by Wyndham

- Hotel Villa del Sol

- Hotel Flamingo

- Hotel Suites El Paseo

Currently a Four Points by Sheraton is being built near the Cantabria skycraper at Av. Paseo Triunfo de la República, too. If you're not into hotels, there's plenty of people offering rooms for AirBNB.

I'd recommend coming when the pandemic has completely ended, but we're not under lockdown, and we have far less cases than El Paso so far, so there's that.

—The preceding comment was added by 201.146.203.153 (talk • contribs)

 * It's great that you have current knowledge about the city, but why would you think your work would be rolled back? This is a Wiki. If you don't do the work, don't expect that others will do it for you. I live in New York and have been adding and updating content about my city for at least 14 years (probably more, but I'm not checking my IP work right now, and who's counting?). I didn't wait for anyone's permission, and while naturally some of my edits didn't stand, even some of my very old work is still in the articles in cases in which it's still as valid today as it was then. I'd strongly suggest that because you are the one with the knowledge and motivation, you should make the changes. But I'm still interested in knowing what site guidelines or policies you feel your edits might violate, because otherwise, there'd be no reason for any good-faith member to revert any of your edits. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:22, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

 * Small thing: When you do the update, don't worry too much about where you put things, but if you think of it, keep the things about eating in the "Eat" section, the things about buying stuff in the "Buy" section and so forth. Not everything a person can do is best placed in "Do". But don't let thoughts like that inhibit you! There are usually people who make followup edits after content has been added, and if you put any information in a non-optimal place, we'll gladly move it around in the most useful way we know how. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:55, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

 * I've added some of these, but haven't done the hotels. Feel free to add those of course (or anything else that would make the article better). —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:34, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Juarez


text:
Talk:Juba

I miss information about local busses and transport. It is easy to get transport to cities like Torit, Yei, Nimule, Rumbek and others at affordable prices.

title: Talk:Juba


text:
Talk:Judaean Desert

Judean Desert
Nice start to an article, unfortunately this region badly overlaps with our existing Dead Sea, West Bank and Negev regions. Redirect to West Bank...? (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:24, 15 December 2008 (EST)

Not to be disrespectful, but I think you lack a certain knowledge in the geography of Israel, and I don't think you should automaticly propose to delete regions, just as I shouldn't delete regions in France or Syria, without even discussing and asking about it BEFORE. Here are some explanations:

1 - "The Judean Desert is not a region.." The Judean desert was for thousands of years and still is a very clear geographic region. It is considered a region of its own in Israel, just like the Carmel, Gush-Dan, the Galilee and the Negev, unlike the West Bank, which is a political definition, and the Dead Sea, which is a lake, not a region. Only the Negev is another real region in Israel, and it BORDERS with the Judean Desert, it does not overlap it.

2 - "Its already written about in other articles.." As I said, the Judean desert is an actual a region in Israel, unlike the West Bank and the Dead Sea. The fact that it wasn't mentioned is wrong. And worse, now that it is mentioned, you wish to delete it because people just included it in the regions around it. Well, two wrongs won't make a right. Wikivoyage should bring the correct information about the diffrent regions in Israel, and we shouldn't redevide Israel as we see fit because someone already wrote about it somewhere.

3 - Dead Sea refrences If anything, we should delete the article "Dead Sea", it is not a region, it is a lake, and worse, its a lake between two diffrent regions in two countries. Its like creating an article about the Mediterranean Sea, or about the Lake Superior, though its the same lake, its devided into diffrent regions and diffrent countries, and travelers should get information about the region/country they are going to, not about the lake itself. It might be a helpful article, due to the fact that the Dead Sea is unique, but it should definatly not replace the articles about the actual regions it is located in, both in Israel and in Jordan.

4 - West Bank refrences The West-Bank is the a political region of a diverse area. It DOESN'T overlap the Judean Desert. The Judean Desert is partly in the west-bank(and btw, more than half of the Judean Desert is inside the "green line" and not in the west bank), like other geographical regions in Israel such as the Shephelah, the Judean Mountains, Jerusalem, the Lower Galilee and so on... because it is a political region, determaned by the truce lines set by Israel and Jordan in 1949. and furthermore, the Judean desert is populated mostly (with the exception of Jericho and small bedwin villages) by jewish communities and cities, and therefore even the travelers' experience is the same as inside the "green line", and not as in the arab cities of the west bank. So other than a political statement, there is absolutly no reason to move the Judean Desert article into the West Bank article.

5 - General overlaping and mistakes in the ISRAEL articles The regions that are written in the "Israel" article are not accurate and greatly overlap each other.... for example, the Jezreel valley and Beth-Shaan valley both have articles of their own, even though they are both parts of the Lower Galilee. The Sea of the Galilee also has an article of its own, even though again, its a lake not a region. The western coast of the sea is the Galilee, while the eastern coast belongs to the Golan heights region. My plan is to fix those overlaps and errors, and thats why I started by creating the Judean desert value, in hopes of giving the travelers in Israel good, true and reliable information, which will tell them more about the diffrent regions in Israel, with the historical and current status of each region, with good intresting pictures from the diffrent areas, and most importantly, clean from any political references, as much as possible. And as you can see, I gave information both on the southern part of the desert, like Ein-Gedi and Masada, and also about the northen part of the desert which is in the West-Bank, such as Jericho and Qumaran. From the travelers POV, and since there are no palestinian towns in the region (again besides Jericho), also from the Israelis and Palestinians POV, this region is the same as the Galilee or the Negev. The only diffrence is political, but this is not WikiPolitics, its Wikivoyage.

I hope you will help me to improve the ISRAEL articles, instead of just leaving them the way they are just because its already here regardless if its accurate or not.

(WT-en) Govrin 09:52, 16 December 2008 (EST)

 * Hi Govrin. I have a few comments.  First, while you're right that designations like "West Bank" are political in nature, we do sometimes need to make regions based on political boundaries.  You can't deny that the experience for a traveler is going to be different depending on whether he is in the west bank or not!
 * But of course, that isn't necessarily enough to justify using "West Bank" as a specific article title. What it seems you're proposing is a reorganization of the regions of Israel.  Rather than just go and create a new article for a region whose content is apparently covered (at least in part) in other articles, I would suggest you discuss the matter at Talk:Israel and garner support for a reorganization of the regions.  To do so, you should probably have a good idea of what those regions should be, keeping in mind that they should cover the entire area of Israel without overlaps or gaps.
 * Thanks for contributing to Wikivoyage, and for plunging forward!
 * -- (WT-en) LtPowers 10:37, 16 December 2008 (EST)

 * Agreed with LtPowers. I could be argued into changing Israel's regions (esp. Dead Sea, as you note), but as it stands right now, the cities you list as being in the Judean Desert, namely Ein Gedi, Jericho and Arad, are already covered in the Dead Sea, West Bank and Negev articles respectively.

 * I've opened a discussion on Talk:Israel, let's continue there and put this on hold for time being. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:43, 16 December 2008 (EST)

i'm sorry, but you are simpley mistaking. I think as an Israeli for all my life, I have a more inside view about the regions in Israel and the diffrent atmospheres in the west bank and in the green line. The majority of the Judean desert, including the parts in the west bank, is considered to be Israel de facto. it has only jewish cities, and it is protected by barriers and the military. Traveling there is like traveling in Tel-Aviv or Haifa, its NOTHING like being in Hevron or Beth-Lehem. I should know, since as a native to this place, I traveled here more than other people and more than I myself traveled in other places. and either way, like i said, more than half of the Judean desert is outside the west bank.

As for the Dead Sea, like it or not, its simply not a region. Its not up to you and me to determan the regions, just like the Tibet article is based on the chinese government value of Tibet, and not by our standards. China decides its regions, Sweden decides its regions, and Israel decides its regions.

As for the coverage in other articles... I think its fairly stupid to assume that if the cities gathered here have values of their own, the region doesn't need to be explained. This is like deleting the value of "California", because places like LA and San-Diego have values of their own. This region is more than just those few chosen cities... sadly, instead of imrpoving and expand about it and give more information about the regions that are yet to be talked about, you prefer to shut it down and simply keep the old ones not because they are right, but because "they were here first".

anyway, I was highly disappointed by the very inactive and unincoraging approach of this community. I wondered why so many articles and values about diffrent countries and regions here are so low on information, if they even have anything. Now i know why. Sadly, i cannot help to develop a community that doesn't welcome development. I am deleting my article and the pictures i have posted, and i will no longer try to contribute here. I hope some day, you will understand that acting like this only damages wikivoyage, and keeps it to a limited group of "elite" people with limited knowledge.. instead of being the open project it should be.

cya

Alternative banner for this article?
I created a new alternative banner for this article (I initially created it first and foremost so that it would be used at the top of the parallel article in the Hebrew edition of Wikivoyage, yet I later decided to also suggest that the English Wikivoyage community would consider using it here as well). So, which banner do you prefer having at the top of this article? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 04:45, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, the new banner has a really nice composition. I support the change. Danapit (talk) 15:01, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * The new banner gives more of a suggestion of vastness (I assume such a presumption to be accurate) plus it is a tad less dark. While it is not by any means a huge difference, I slightly prefer the new banner. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:20, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I agree. The current banner is fine, but the new one is an improvement. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:06, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Proposed Syced (talk) 08:06, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Extraregion?
Since the Judaean Desert is in both Israel and the Palestinian Territories, is it irregular to breadcrumb the article to Israel instead of making it an extraregion that is part of two entities? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:17, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

 * For the record, I'd be fine with this, but only as the product of consensus achieved through discussion, rather than unilateral action.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:54, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree. Most of the sites in the article (and in Hiking in the Judaean Desert) are in the West Bank, not Israel. Arad, an Israeli city, should probably not be listed on this page as the Hebrew and English Wikipedia articles for Judaean Desert indicate that Arad is not part of the Judaean Desert (at most, it's on the border between the Judaean Desert and the Negev), and it's currently breadcrumbed (as it should be) to the Negev. Ar2332 (talk) 20:36, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Judaean Desert


text:
Talk:Juliaca

Drink
it just says coke? i'am confused. --(WT-en) Kcv5 00:09, 21 November 2011 (EST) Ok it got fixed. --(WT-en) Kcv5 00:10, 21 November 2011 (EST)

title: Talk:Juliaca


text:
Talk:July

 * July 23rd - 25th, 2004: Womad (World of music and dance), a celebration of world's cultural diversity through music, arts and dance in Reading, England.

 * July 24th, 2003: Birthday of Wikitravel, I suppose it should be changed. -- Berthold   Mail  Talk  14:24, 27 September 2012 (CEST)

Alternative banner for this article?
Do you think too that this banner would would better than the existing one? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 17:19, 2 November 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:July


text:
Talk:June

Should the old events be removed or, if applicable, new dates for this included? (WT-en) Brendio 20:38, 16 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * Talk:Calendar of events and festivals says the events for the current year and the next 2 years be added. So update entries if events are going to reoccur, otherwise remove the entry if the event is just a one off thing. -- (WT-en) Huttite 02:51, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * Should those entries that do recur but for which the date in the new year is not known (either because it was originally entered by someone else or the dates are not yet confirmed) be moved to the corresponding talk page until someone enters the new date? This would save clutter on the article page without losing that information. (WT-en) Brendio 15:03, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * That is probably a good idea. Though the timeliness of some of the confirmations needs consideration. I think if an event is not on a confirmed date 3-6 months, and preferably a year, out then there is no point in listing as it won't stay around long enough to be worthwile. Alternatively, if an event has previously regularly occured in the month, but the exact dates are only confirmed close to the event or at the last moment, you could put the basic details of the event into the Moveable dates of the Every year section. If the event occurs only occasionally, say every 2-3 years, or less, or moves around, I think it would need to be something really big, like the Olympics or Soccer/Rugby World Cup, that attracts (hundreds of) thousands of people (tourists/performers) for it to be listed. Just being a(nother) concert or performance for one night, or a season, probably doesn't make the grade. It needs to be the biggest tourist event in town that people from all over the place come to see, and if you want tickets or accommodation you need to plan well in advance. -- (WT-en) Huttite 16:27, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)

Archive

 * 11th June, 2005 Escape into the Park, Swansea, UK - one of Europe's largest urban dance and rock festivals.
 * 21st June, 2005: Cities across Europe (and elsewhere) celebrate La Fête de la Musique each year on the 21st of June by providing free concerts with local and international acts. The festival was started in 1982 in Paris.  Geneva, Barcelona, Berlin, and Prague all participate in a big way, as do many smaller cities in France and Switzerland, such as Lausanne.  In the last few years cities outside of Europe have begun to participate as well, such as Haifa, Santiago, Lagos, Beirut, and many more.
 * 24th-26th June, 2005 Donauinselfest, Vienna, Austria - Europe's largest free open air festival - Highlights (PDF)

title: Talk:June


text:
Wikivoyage talk:Joke articles/Jurassic Park

Does Ryanair fly here?

Jeff Goldblum
Gratuitous mentions of Jeff Goldblum are always funny in my book. Surely we can work him in here somewhere. (WT-en) Texugo 00:43, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

Too touristy
I remember coming here in 1993, back then it was way off the beaten track. Now, its become too reliant on the tourist industry. The raptors have become taxi drivers, and the T-Rex just touts shoddy hotels next to the docks. Worst of all are the triceratops who have had to resort to prostitution just to earn a few measly bucks from Japanese businessmen. I say we leave the dinosaurs alone so that they can go back to being bloodthirsty monsters again.

 * You're talking about Pattaya here, right? I'm not entirely sure how triceratops prostitution works, but triple penetration sounds kinda painful. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:05, 1 April 2009 (EDT)

 * What's worse is that the raptors aren't even good taxi drivers! And they're such scam artists, they'll take every last cent. Especially the big one. That one... when she looks at you, you can tell she's working things out. (WT-en) PerryPlanet Talk 12:16, 1 April 2009 (EDT)

Yawn
Seriously, is this the best Wiki could come up with April Fools???? (78.149.204.64 13:24, 1 April 2009 (EDT))

We're geeks, and don't have the manpower of wikipedia - what have you? --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 13:29, 1 April 2009 (EDT)


text:
Talk:Kaanipakam

I'm having a hard time finding this place. Any suggestions for what to do with this article? --(WT-en) Evan 21:39, 30 November 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Kaanipakam