text:
Talk:Morazán

Attention spanish speakers! Please translate this! (WT-en) Tsandell 17:05, 14 July 2006 (EDT)

Translation issue
I'm new to Wikivoyage, and don't know to what extent Wikipedia's usual writing style applies here. I'm quite accustomed to their "neutral point of view" approach, but suspect that Wikivoyage's style would be different, as travel writing tends to be. So here is a translation of three lines that were in Spanish in the article, but which I'm unsure deserve to be included in the eventual article: None of these sentences really sounds right for Wikipedia, but they might be fine for Wikivoyage. I leave it to someone else to educate me on this; I will go on to read the help pages as time goes on, but I have only a few minutes today.(WT-en) Lawikitejana 17:50, 15 December 2006 (EST)
 * Si deseas pasar unas lindas vacaciones en El Salvador, no olvides visitar a Morazan. If you wish to spend a lovely vacation in El Salvador, don't forget to visit Morazán.
 * Morazan tiene muchos lugares turisticos donde tu aprenderas y te relajaras mucho.Morazán has many tourist locations where you will learn and relax. (English style would say, "for learning and relaxation.")
 * Estas son unos de los lugares con los que Morazan cuenta:Here are a few of the places of Morazán:

 * Sure! You may want to start with our manual of style, which covers a lot of our writing and formatting guidelines. In particular, we try to keep the prose tight and compact -- people are going to be carrying these guides around in their backpacks, after all. We don't have a strictly neutral point of view for Wikivoyage -- here, the traveller comes first, and we try to think of our readers' practical needs ahead of others'. We do try to be fair, though. In any case, we ask that contributors don't tout -- we're writing guides for and by travellers, not promotional brochures. Thanks for your help here! --(WT-en) Evan 22:57, 15 December 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Morazán


text:
Talk:Morbihan

Talk
The "talk" section is meant for information about the local languages. Please see the Project:Region article template for more details. Again, feel free to ask me if you have any questions! Thanks for contributing! (WT-en) Maj 16:13, 5 November 2006 (EST)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Morbihan


text:
Wikivoyage talk:Joke articles/Mordor

Brussels
L-O-L Brussels ?????

 * A lot of similarities. Both seats of evil bureaucrats. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 13:39, 1 April 2010 (EDT)

It is going well folks. Some really sharp satire in there. I am off to bed, please keep it up! --(WT-en) Burmesedays 13:43, 1 April 2010 (EDT)

Please keep this up on wikivoyage forever, this is truly hilarious. Wikivoyage should expand to other fictional places too, just for fun. ~stidmatt 9:15 PDT, 1 April 2010

 * These fictional articles are fun to read (and write!) but since Wikivoyage aims to be a serious travel reference, once a year is generally enough... please check back on April 1, 2011 though :) -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 01:57, 2 April 2010 (EDT)

 * Yep, congratulations to all contributors. Coming back with fresh eyes to read this again today, it really is very funny. But now back to the serious stuff for the next 364 days. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 04:04, 2 April 2010 (EDT)

Protection?
Given that April 1 is now over, and based on past history with April Fool's articles attracting attention well after their initial launch, would it make sense to protect this article from further edits? At this point it really is no longer a living document, but is instead a record of what we did on April 1, 2010, so I'd think protection makes sense. Thoughts? -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 10:53, 2 April 2010 (EDT)

 * Very good move I would say.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 11:13, 2 April 2010 (EDT)

 * Done. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 12:30, 2 April 2010 (EDT)

 * Maybe not??? I added move & edit protections, yet somehow a listing change still got through: . Is this a bug in the software that allows edits via listing tags even for protected articles?  In any case, the change was minor, but if I've somehow messed up the protection I'd be grateful if someone else could review and let me know what I did wrong. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 13:58, 2 April 2010 (EDT)

 * I can't find anything wrong and didn't duplicate the problem, but I'll hazard a guess that the listings editor would indeed work despite protection, but the interface is disabled. So, in this case, maybe the editor either already had the listings editor open before protection, or accessed it through a cached version of the page? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:48, 2 April 2010 (EDT)

title: Wikivoyage talk:Joke articles/Mordor


text:
Talk:Mordovia

Useful link
Not much information around the web on Mordovia... This link is not terribly informative (about what destinations really merit a visit), but it is really comprehensive and might be of use to future editors in figuring out what to write about for the republic. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 23:42, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mordovia


text:
Talk:Morija

Your entry reads: Morija is a tiny town in north western Lesotho, about 40 miles south of Maseru. Tim Couzens' novel Murder at Morija tells of the 1920 poisoning of one of Lesotho's first missionaries.

As correction I offer: Morija is a village in western (possibly southwestern, but certainly not northwestern, see a map) Lesotho, about 40 miles south of Maseru. Tim Couzen's novel, once described by a well-educated Sotho as 'turgid', uses as a central theme the alleged poisoning of one of the missionaries of Paris Evangelical Misson Society, which had, at the time the novel is set, been established in Lesotho for about sevety-five years.

title: Talk:Morija


text:
Talk:Moro bay

I had Fat Finger Syndrome and accidentally hit RETURN before I finished entering a description. I created this redirect for a common misspelling of Morro Bay.

(WT-en) Epolk 13:03, 12 March 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Moro bay


text:
Talk:Morocco

'See' section
Don't we need a 'See' section for special "must-see" attractions?

 * They go in the Other Destinations section. See Project:Country article template. -- (WT-en) Colin 15:16, 19 May 2005 (EDT)
 * Currently the article does not have such a section. One such destination to include would be Merzouge, from where one may embark on a camel excursion into the Sahara.,,  Maybe I'll write about it when I have some time. -- (WT-en) Gyrofrog (talk) 02:00, 24 Jun 2005 (EDT)

External links moved
Some WikiTraveler left the following external links that might be useful to researchers.

 * Surf Spots in Morocco
 * Morocco Travel Forums

More external links: taxi and car
Few more external links on travelling by taxi and by car: It has some ideas we would welcome here--but is it OK to just transcribe key of them in this article? Will it conform to our policy on using copyrighted content? BTW, here's who they are and why they are doing that: http://www.triotours.com/faq/about/who-is.htm. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 23:37, 15 November 2006 (EST)
 * http://www.triotours.com/faq/ma/travel-around-car.htm
 * http://www.triotours.com/faq/ma/travel-around-taxi.htm

 * No, you can not use this content in WikiTravel. It is copyrighted material.

Sleep for Dh75 is expensive budget?
I wonder if the prices like this really exist anywhere in Morocco:
 * youth hostels in the major cities (dorm beds from around Dh 50)
 * budget hotels: singles from around Dh 65
 * slightly more expensive budget (singles from around Dh 75) and mid-range hotels sprinkled throughout ville nouvelles

From my experience, typical budget accommodation is from EUR50 to EUR80 per double, which is about x10 higher then the figures above. Can anyone support that the prices above are real and up-to-date? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 15:53, 13 November 2006 (EST)

 * These prices seem reasonable for the major cities, though they are on the cheap side. I was travelling in Morocco in January of this year, and was paying about 100Dh a night on average - 50 at lowest, 200 at highest. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 203.63.0.143 (talk • contribs)

Buses are more reliable than trains?
I removed several quotations like this, as they give more questions than answers. In what sense are they more reliable? Are there more buses per day than trains per day for the same connection? Are buses better in departing/arriving in time? Do they break up more rare than trains? Please give details on this--and we'll bring the phrase back to the guide. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:46, 22 November 2006 (EST)

Get around: by plane
We need more details here: routes available; frequency per day; give some idea on prices of domestic flights. Anyone willing to share? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:46, 24 November 2006 (EST)

URLs for ferries
Hi, I do respect you external links policy, but it is very annoying that I only see soem prices for ferries, but no names for companies nor website addresses. The wiki would be a good place for that. Now im in the hands of google, and the travel preparation gets much more of a fuss. --145.99.202.92
 * It's not against the external links policy to link to ferry companies; they're considered primary sources. What we'd want to avoid are links to guides to ferries. -- (WT-en) Jonboy 10:33, 4 January 2007 (EST)

hamams vs rhyads as a substitute of shower

 * These hotels can be very basic and often lack hot water and showers, while others will charge you between Dh 5 and Dh 10 for a hot water shower. Instead, consider public ryadhs (was:hammams) that are quite alot in medina and rural areas.

Dear 90.193.228.16, hammams look much more reasonable substitute for hotel shower, as riads are actually a mid-class kind of hotel, not a public bath. Why did you change hammams to ryadhs? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 05:06, 18 January 2007 (EST)
 * In a meanwhile, I reverted this change back to hammams--but I'm open to discuss it if someone willing to. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 03:58, 19 January 2007 (EST)

Traveling During the Ramadan Holiday
Is it possible traveling during the Ramadan Holiday? our planed vacation is scheduled for the same period of the year as the Ramadan happens to be celebrated. (WT-en) Homer 08:49, 30 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Yes, traveling isn't so much the problem, eating and drinking and smoking is. Muslims fast throughout the day, and you'll find that most restaurants won't be serving food between sunrise and sunset. It's polite for you to observe the fast as well, though technically non-Muslims and those who are traveling are exempt. You'll still be able to buy food in stores, etc and eat it in your hotel room. I find Ramadan a fun (if slightly more challenging) time to travel... the atmosphere is generally festive, it's sort of the equivalent of the western Christmas time. At the end of the month is Eid ul-Fitr, so be aware that for about a week at that time many if not all things may be closed, and transportation a bit more difficult. – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 05:28, 1 July 2007 (EDT)

Is a Carnet de Passage needed?
Could someone confirm (and include in the article under "Get In / By Car" section) whether you need a Carnet de Passage in order to bring your car into Morocco? I was told by my local automobile association that I need one, but on wikipedia Morocco isn't even listed among the countries where it is helpful to have one. Also, I do feel that it is a rather important information to have if you're planning on entering Morocco by car.

October 2009
I drove my spanish BMW to Morocco in 2005 without problems. I think you only need to show the special paper in case anythings happens, but I had no use for it. However, on the ferry I had to fill in a paper with details of the car that was handed to an officer at the arrival and I got one copy that MUST be shown upon return. Doing this carefully, no problem at all, excellent roads. Fun driving there, but the police love to use radars to check speeds, so keep speed exactly... it costed 400 DIRHAMS for speeding 120 km/h on a 80 km/h road, but I always got the money back after talking to them and apologizing nicely and really showing pacience. It can take some time, but they love tourists so if you behave decently, there is nothing to be afraid of apart from loosing some 30 minutes of time and waiting in the sun. I traveled another time at winter, this time the paper was to be filled in at arrival, park your car in the queue for foreign cars and go out and ask any uniformed person to give you the paper to fill in, fill it in and give it to an officer walking around there to get it stamped and once this is done you can enter the country freely. Do not pay any attention to people that are not uniformed since they just want to earn money for helping you. If you are lazy and it is too bad weather, it is alright but there is no guarantee they give you the correct info...

Going out of Morocco with a European car; be prepared that they will check the car for drugs carefully both before going on the ferry and upon entering Spain. In Morocco its more visual check, but in Spain its more technological check and they talk to you to check if you look to be of the personality that might try to import drugs. It is not worth the risks. Prision penalties even for a minimal amount of drugs. They even let trained dogs search outside and inside your car. So don´t even think about it.

—The preceding comment was added by 81.231.156.217 (talk • contribs).

Regions
Morocco badly needs subregions. I am not familiar with the country, but here is my suggestion:

 * Atlantic Coast (Morocco)
 * High Atlas
 * Mediterranean Morocco
 * Saharan Morocco
 * Western Sahara

Do these seem like good travel regions? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:19, 27 September 2007 (EDT)

Almost
Almost. There's an almost decent breakup of the country here:

I'm thinking, based on the above linked to map:

 * North Atlantic Coast (Morocco) - The coast is long enough to be broken into two easily, with attractions in both
 * South Atlantic Coast (Morocco) - ditto
 * High Atlas ?? - will be debate over that name, as it needs to cover Marrakech and that whole central area which is near High Atlas, but not technically part of
 * Middle Atlas ?? - Also same situation, needs to cover Fes, etc
 * Saharan Morocco - combining "eastern morocco" and "river valleys & dunes"
 * Anti Atlas - the southern portion, covering Tarouddant down to the Western Sahara border
 * Western Sahara - already a region / country, no debate there

Does that sound reasonable to anyone else? Are there better names for High and Middle Atlas? – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 14:13, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

New proposal

Alright, I took my thoughts above, added Anti Atlas, and drew a map... how is this looking as a region breakdown for Morocco? Anything to change? Are the names agreeable? – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 23:12, 30 June 2008 (EDT)

 * I'm still pretty Morocco illiterate, but it looks good to me. I'm still hoping User:(WT-en) Spmenic might comment here, but if no one comments for a while, I say go forward with it. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:00, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

 * I'd say that in general these are pretty good--as good as we can get. We just have to understand that the subregions concept may not apply as well to Morocco as it does to other countries.  Most Moroccans don't even know the 16 official regions of Morocco, and in fact if you look at the list you'll notice that almost all the "regions" are named after the major cities within them.  That's because in Morocco the cities dominate many regional identities (for Berber regions, the particular dialect is another regional marker).  Thus, whereas you might tell a friend that you're traveling to Tuscany, Italy--and then later go into detail as to which cities you're visiting (Pisa, Lucca, etc.), it is quite the opposite in Morocco.  For the tourist (and even for Moroccans), the major cities always dominate the region.  Hence, one guidebook I have breaks itself down this way: 1) In and around Casablanca, 2) In and around Rabat, 3) In and around Tangier, 4) In and around Fes and Meknes, 5) In and around Marrakech, and 6) In and around Agadir.  I'm not suggesting that we switch to that, but there's a reason for breaking things down this way.  Thus, while the map as drawn might be a good starting point, it might make more sense (as the Moroccans have done and the guidebook I mentioned) to include the city names in at least some of the the subregions.  For example, the "Fes and Meknes region" or the "Marrakech and High Atlas region."  Also, on the map we have to switch "High Atlas" and "Middle Atlas."  The High Atlas mountains are the ones near Marrakech. All that said...these subdivisions seem like a good place to start. I just think we need to make sure we have a sense of how they help travelers explore Morocco better--and then develop them with that in mind. (WT-en) Spmenic 18:59, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

 * Cool, that all sounds great... I'm not sure that there will be a need at all to subdivide these regions further... we only tend to break countries down as far as we need to to make digestable chunks for the traveler, and I can't see any of these articles getting so huge as to need further breaking down... but I suppose we'll see how they develop... thanks for the feedback Spmenic. I think I'm gonna move ahead and start creating these regions later today, they seem like a good division... and if there's debate over the naming of them later, that's easy enough to change – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 19:32, 3 July 2008 (EDT)

Left Handedness
The article states to avoid doing anything with your left hand, as the Moroccans perceive the left hand is used for handling excretion. Is this for real? c'mon, the Moroccans should know that most foreigners simply do not go around in life handling crap. But the problem is that being left handed I could not even sign my name with my right hand. To what extent is this anti-left hand guideline a real issue in their culture?

 * You should eat with your right hand, and use your right hand to give or receive anything, such as money, etc... and only touch people with your right hand. Otherwise you're ok using your left for writing etc. – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 14:06, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

Currency Abbreviation and Usage
We need to decide upon one standard way to represent prices for all the Morocco travel pages. Looking just at this Morocco page and the Marrakech page, I've seen prices listed with "dirhams" spelled out and abbreviated, with various different forms of abbreviations, with the abbreviations before and after the price, and with abbreviations next to and spaced out from the price. The permutations are many, all of which seem to be used at least once.

Here are actual examples (no kidding) copied directly from those two pages:
 * dhr 100
 * Dh 10
 * 10 Dhm
 * 130 Dh
 * 20Dh
 * 7dh
 * 30 DH
 * 20DH
 * 20 Dirham
 * 30 Dirhams
 * 90 dirham
 * 10 dirhams

After searching the web, there doesn't seem to be a consensus among other guides either. Lonely Planet lists prices in this format: DH 100. Rough Guides uses this format: 100dh. A New York Times article on Marrakech lists prices this way: 100 dirhams.

No matter what, we need to standardize things. (WT-en) Spmenic 00:34, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

 * Indeed! Project:Spelling Project:Currency is the current policy, which guides us to use a symbol or abbreviation when possible, placed before the amount... I think it should definitely be capitalized, which leaves us to decide between Dh and DH... I think I prefer the former, but could live with either – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 03:21, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

 * Thank you! The Project:Spelling page led me to find a great resource for Wikivoyage, the Webster's Dictionary money table. If we are using Webster's Third New International Dictionary as our source for spelling, then the money table is its official list of currency symbols. The symbol it gives for the Moroccan dirham is DH in all capitals.  So that answers one question.

 * As to whether it goes before or after, I didn't find anything on the Project:Spelling page and I'm not sure it is simply a function of American English spelling. The Wikipedia article on currency sign states that "When writing currency amounts the location of the sign varies by currency."  I wonder if the question should be: How are prices actually written in Morocco?  I think the Moroccan convention should take precedence here.  I'm going to look through some photos of Morocco for signs with prices and look at some official websites of the Moroccan government to see what it does.

 * Woops, I meant Project:Currency :)  – (WT-en) cacahuate   talk 16:14, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

 * Ah! Sounds good. So are decided that the standard should be DH 100? (WT-en) Spmenic 20:05, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

 * Works for me! – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 20:13, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

Staying outside cities
In June and July, how easy is it to get accomodation in small towns? I'm thinking of hiring a 4wd, with driver, and exploring the High Atlas Mountains. I'd need to park and sleep in small villages, and make day trips on foot, starting well before dawn.

Would it be possible to rock up to a small village, such as here: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=N31+27.121+W6+37.805&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&ll=31.559815,-6.630249&spn=2.335507,4.943848&z=8&iwloc=addr and be confident that I could get accommodation?

I am not keen on camping, largely because it would require the transportation of too much gear on the plane. (WT-en) Arpitt 10:47, 8 January 2009 (EST)

Currency
How is currency represented in Morocco - as Dh, MAD or something else? I think it's important to represent the currency according to the standard symbol or abbreviation used in the country. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:14, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
 * As in many countries, there is NOT a "standard symbol or abbreviation" used throughout Morocco. In that respect, the current article is spot on when it says:
 * "The local currency is the Moroccan dirham for which the ISO 4217 code is MAD (sometimes symbolised as Dh or Dhs or DH or درهم or the plural form of دراهم or Dhm)"
 * I've also seen md and MD and dh and dhs and it's also common in shops and souks to just see a decimal number with no symbolisation or abbreviation whatever! --222.127.76.207 12:42, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

So it is clear that there is no standard notation in Morocco, but there should be a standard notation in Wikivoyage, to the extent possible, and the Morocco article should note that usage in the country varies. I scanned several city articles, and they also use a wide range -- no notation stands out as being the most common. I nominate 100 Dh as being a notation that is short and clear, but to be honest, there aren't really good arguments for or against any one of the many notations being used. Ground Zero (talk) 17:25, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

 * I don't think we should spend any time enforcing a standard notation if they don't have one. The only standard we should have is comprehensibility. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:40, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Consistency makes it easier for the reader to understand Wikivoyage. When they get to Morocco, they'll have to deal with inconsistency, but they shouldn't have to here. It makes WV look random and disorganized. Ground Zero (talk) 18:13, 9 March 2017 (UTC)
 * There's a cost-benefit issue. How much is your time worth to you, and what else could you be doing to improve the site if you don't try to standardize a currency whose notation isn't actually standardized? Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:54, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I am talking about adopting a standard format only. I fix currency notations when I am doing general copyedits on an article to fix style and formatting problems, clean up dead links, remove touting, fix bad translations, etc. I think this sort of editing improves the usability of Wikivoyage. If you don't, you don't have to do it. I am not going to try to tell you or other editors what they should work on - I find that people in collaborative online projects rarely work on what other people tell them to. Ground Zero (talk) 14:00, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I won't stand in your way. But on the other hand, I don't think you need to propose an official site standard format in order to engage in a one-person editing project. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:33, 10 March 2017 (UTC)
 * But maybe someone has a good reason to use a different format that I should know about before starting. I thought it would be polite to ask. Ground Zero (talk) 04:16, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

On the other hand, WV:$ says to use "dirhams", which would avoid any disagreement about abbreviation to use. Ground Zero (talk) 03:22, 15 March 2017 (UTC)
 * That seems like the best approach. Powers (talk) 00:46, 16 March 2017 (UTC)

Towns in "Other destinations"
"Other destinations" really means "Destinations other than cities (towns, villages, etc.)", such as parks, archeological sites, perhaps beaches. Is there a way to redesign the listings for towns so that whatever overriding attraction that's in the towns is mentioned, or do they have to be removed from the list? One example of how to deal with this is in India. Note that instead of listing Bodh Gaya, the main temple complex (an "other destination") is listed. Etc. But sometimes, this is not really possible because it's really the town itself that's the draw, not some overriding attraction there that's the reason for most people to visit. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:36, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

Terror threat in Morocco
I am unsure if the assertion that Morocco is a safe place to travel is generally accurate A number of foreign offices have warned their citizens against traveling in the region because of the growing influence of ISIS/ISIL/Deash. Only at the start of the year a major terror cell was broken up, and the general threat has been high for some time, Morrocan news sources are claiming the number of cells dismantled in the last two years is about 40, almost all ISIS linked.

I don't want to cause undue concern for travelers, but it seems irresponsible giving broad assurances of the safety of travelers in light of recent events.

If these concerns seem valid to everyone, it would seem prudent to at least put a not in "stay safe"

—The preceding comment was added by 41.141.201.49 (talk • contribs)

Western Sahara
How should this guide handle Western Sahara? Right now, it seems to treat W. Sahara as a separate country. I'm thinking that it shouldn't: That the guide should cover the Moroccan-controlled part of W. Sahara, and should list the Western Sahara guide as one of the the sub-regions of Morocco. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 10:54, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
 * As the guide currently reads, "As travel conditions in the Western Sahara are remarkably different from a traveller's point of view, it is treated as its own entity. This is not a political endorsement of claims by any side in the dispute over the sovereignty of these territories." Don't you think that's true? —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 14:56, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

 * I think that's a simplification. Certainly, the Free Zone is its own entity from the traveler's point of view. And even in the Moroccan Zone: There are substantial differences that the traveler needs to be aware of (as was pointed out at Talk:Western Sahara). Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 15:22, 7 September 2017 (UTC)

 * At the very least: I think the region map should show W. Sahara. Even the Serbia map shows Kosovo, and Serbia doesn't control Kosovo. Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 07:51, 31 October 2017 (UTC)

Policy queries
I am traveling through Morocco and I wonder if it is appropriate to add second hand sources directly to the wiki. While my gut feeling is that I should witness everything myself, I wonder how much discretion should be given generally in regards to basic information (like the price of a bus, or entry to a public pool). using my better judgement, would it be appropriate to take the word of a local? I guess I'm unsure how to balance the interest of adding and updating information for travelers quickly, and the risk of disinformation.

And as a relatively new editor I am reluctant to even raise the issue, but yesterday I added a hotel listing which I thought was warranted and I asked the hotel manager to confirm some prices and information for me (opening hours, phone number etc). Before I knew it he cottoned onto the line of my questions and my room became free of charge; the guy wouldn't even let me pay him. Some people might just think "yea free room" but it immediately raised all kinds of red flags for me, While I'm confident my edits are fair and that I'm not touting in any way I'm unsure about the wiki-voyage policy on this. Naturally it would be better to refuse favors altogether but this can cause great offence for cultural reasons in some places. The guy even told me to write that another hotel smelled bad. Naturally I didn't but I'm sure everyone can see the issue here. To be frank business in Morocco is dishonesty incarnate, if these guys know they are listed or heaven forbid learn how to edit the mess they could make would be horrible.

For my piece of mind would someone OK my edit was on the page for ouarzazate? "Hotel Atlas. Rue du Marche no.13 (5-7DM by taxi from CTM) . Convenient location, English and French spoken, WiFi, clean rooms,Hassan can guide dessert tours. (60-90DH singles, 110-160 doubles) PH.0524887745,MOB 0605202817."

I'm also having trouble listing value-added tour operators, as the whole country is a web of kickbacks and touts. Everyone will simply lie to your face or refuse to tell you who is the original operator as it's their whole business to conceal this. It seems other editors are having trouble with this too, and for travelers this is very valuable information.

Welcoming any advice or comment, as always I'll defer to more seasoned editors. --Willthewanderer (talk) 11:35, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi Will, thanks for your contributions so far. I'm looking forward to seeing more! Updates from the road are the best kind. It sounds like Moroccan business practices haven't changed since I was last there in 1990. Second-hand info is probably not the best, but a lot of the edits contributors make here are based on internet research, rather than personal visits, which is okay.
 * I edited your Hotel Atlas entry to make the price and telephone info formatting consistent with our style. You may find it useful to use our listing templates (look for the icons at the top of your edit screen). We're glad to have the information either way. Recent edits are patrolled by regular contributors to deal with issues like touting, and Moroccan articles probably deserve extra attention for that. Have a great trip in Morocco, and keep us posted! Ground Zero (talk) 11:56, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Are those "dessert tours" or "desert tours"? I'd love to go on a dessert tour, were I not already so overweight. :) K7L (talk) 14:34, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

 * See The traveller comes first and Be fair; you should definitely write what you as a traveler have encountered and experienced, because this is what other travelers reading Wikivoyage will encounter and experience when they go to Morocco. Morocco sadly has more than its fair share of various touts (at least this was my experience in Tangier two years ago), so I wouldn't interview someone selling something (be it hotel rooms, stuffed toy camels or sunglasses) and tell them about Wikivoyage. --ϒpsilon (talk) 10:38, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

 * Second hand sources can be very useful. If I eat at a restaurant I ask others around me if their food is good. If I am on a tour, I check that others paid the same as me, as I might have paid too much. If the second source is your spouse or fellow travellers, you trust, I would say you can use it. If you ask several people how much they paid for a taxi from the airport and they give similar replys, you could use that. If a location has few Stay entries and you meet someone that stayed a great place there and has the business card, you could at the place to WV. As for tour operators, if they are not original do not list them by name, but write something like: Around X square there are plenty of tour operators that will take you to the desert for Y dirhams. Mayby another traveller will find a better deal and update the listing. Elgaard (talk) 15:10, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

 * Asking other travelers and customers is of course a whole different thing, and such information probably can be added here. ϒpsilon (talk) 08:38, 29 July 2017 (UTC)

dirham or dirhams
Which is the correct currency denotion?

Currency says 100 dirham is correct, but the country article starts using dirhams for plural.

So?

Ceever (talk) 23:44, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia uses dirhams, but the correct Arabic plural is darahim. Both dirham and dirhams are pronounced the same in French, so most locals will likely not pronounce dirhams the way an English speaking traveller would expect. ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:11, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

 * So, what you are saying is dirham would be more useful to the traveller? Cheers Ceever (talk) 20:33, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I'd go with that. It's easier that explaining a silent "s". Ground Zero (talk) 20:36, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes I am, but with the caveat that all the Moroccans I know live in France. If anyone has been to Morocco, feel free to correct me. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:22, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It's been a long time, and I was speaking French, but I always heard dirham. Ground Zero (talk) 21:59, 3 May 2018 (UTC)
 * OK. Let's go ahead with dirham then. Already corrected most, probably some smaller towns/regions still need correction. Ceever (talk) 23:11, 3 May 2018 (UTC)

Unemployment
Half of the current Work section discusses unemployment in general terms, more suited for Understand. While the general situation affects the traveller's chances to find a job, the focus is wrong. A "competitive matter, especially for Moroccan citizens" – so is it a competitive matter for you? Do foreigners have an edge? Why, in what sectors? And if unemployment follows from lacking education, does that mean it is easy to find jobs where education is needed? Then focus on that. –LPfi (talk) 06:31, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I rewrote the section, without knowing much about the country. Some should perhaps have been moved to Understand. Further tweaks should probably be done. –LPfi (talk) 08:49, 10 June 2023 (UTC)

Cities
We have 11 cities and can't list more than 9. Which ones should be removed? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:25, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Essaouira, Meknes, Tétouan and Chefchaouen are described as nearby other listed cities. It seems a mention in Go next would be more appropriate than listing them here. The descriptions in the articles themselves are more inspiring, but it seems it is two of these that must go. –LPfi (talk) 08:47, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Go next would have to be for places outside of Morocco, if we use that section at all - it's optional for countries. Do you mean listing them in "Go next" in relevant city articles? Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:57, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. I mean that if the city primarily is "a welcome break from the tourist crush of neighbouring Fez", then it should be a Go next in Fez. No need to mention it here unless it would be a primary destination. Meknes might thus be my first choice for removal – but somebody who knows the country should weight in. –LPfi (talk) 15:35, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Any other views? We should resolve this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:56, 23 June 2023 (UTC)
 * I removed Essaouira and Chefchaouen, the last two cities added. If anyone believes a different lineup of 9 cities should be used, please tell us why. Thanks! Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:29, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Entry Requirements
The following statements seem to contradict each other:

> In accordance with the law, everyone needs a visa to visit Morocco.

> Nationals of the following countries can enter Morocco visa-free:

What exactly is the first trying to say? Danielt998 (talk) 22:28, 25 August 2023 (UTC)

 * We should remove the first sentence as it's factually incorrect. Kiaora (talk) 18:55, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

 * Done. Next time, please plunge forward and delete anything you know to be false. Thanks! Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:47, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Earthquake
Apart from a warningbox, what else should we say about the recent earthquake (before it easily goes out-of-date)? Perhaps list some of the damage in the various city articles? -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:07, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

 * It is difficult to know the degree of damage. Of course, when the dust has settled, we might want to tell about closed or destroyed sights, but more important as of now would be to get a grasp about the extent of the affected region – I assume tourists should stay out until the situation is under control. I see a warning box only in Marrakesh. I think there should be one on the country page, perhaps at the top even if our guideline says it should go into Stay safe if the problem is regional. –LPfi (talk) 09:45, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed with what you said – I've just been way too busy IRL to follow up with the nitty-gritties of this earthquake to write a warningbox. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 11:21, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

A small country?
In Get around, "With an area of 446,300 km2, Morocco is a relatively easy country to get around in." was changed to "Morocco is a small country, which means getting around is easy and straightforward." I wouldn't call France (with a comparable size) small, not even Finland at 300 odd thousand km².

Regardless, "large" or "small" mean different things to different people. Much better to state the actual size (in Understand).

–LPfi (talk) 17:03, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed, it's not a small country. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:26, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Changed it back. Roovinn (talk) 02:49, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

I would say Morocco definitely isn't a small country. Unless it's somewhere that's actually physically very small like Nauru or San Marino it seems like a confusing term to use. Alextejthompson (Ping me or leave a message on my talk page) 20:50, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Morocco


text:
Talk:Morogoro

Taxi numbers
Swept in from the Pub:

Living in Morogoro, Tanzania, if one does not own a vehicle, it's quite useful to have the phone numbers of a few local taxis handy. In fact it's the only option during the evening, when public transit doesn't run, and in many other situations besides. I'm sure this is true of many other towns & cities. So, this would quite legitimately be useful information for travelers.

However, taxis here don't have central dispatch or consolidation of any kind - you need to get the cell phone number of every taxi you intend to use. It seems quite strange to put someone's primary cell phone number on a public web page, even if they are a business. Also, I was thinking that because there are literally hundreds of taxis in the area, it could get to be quite ungainly to list them on the main page. That led me to wondering if there is a precedent for this situation.

Thanks, - (WT-en) Albert 19:25, 29 September 2008 (EAT)

 * I vaguely recall some discussion along these lines for the Siem Reap (Cambodia) article, about whether individual bike cabbies can/should be recommended, and the consensus was eventually "no" -- this would lead to too much touting.

 * However, a place like Morogoro sounds sufficient off the beaten path that this should not be a problem. So, yes, I think it's fine to list the names and numbers of good cabbies. (WT-en) Jpatokal 13:25, 29 September 2008 (EDT)

 * The one downside of listing a host of numbers for individual cab drivers is that the list will quite soon be incorrect as cabbies change numbers or just go into another business. --(WT-en) Wandering 11:01, 1 October 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Morogoro


text:
Talk:Morro de São Paulo

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Comments
The "Splurge" section under Sleep was deleted so I added it back. Please do not delete hotels from the list unless you have a good reason and list that reason on this discussion page. (WT-en) AlmostBrazilian 14:19, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Morro de São Paulo


text:
Talk:Moscow

Can Moscow be divided into districts?
I would recommend one for Central Moscow, using either the Garden Ring, or the Boulevard Ring' as its boundry. The rest of the city could be divided into Northern, Eastern, Western, and Southern sections. Everything outside the Outer Moscow Ring Road could be described in the Get Out section.User:(WT-en) Johnsemlak

 * Moscow is definitely a huge city, so if you're willing to put in the effort to make the districts presentable, then go ahead. But the current Moscow article is still quite limited and lot more info, esp. nuts'n'bolts stuff like restaurants and hotels, is needed. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:03, 4 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * I have just linked to a separate article about Kolomenskoye. I think there is now a need to make districts for Moscow. The initial suggestion was:

 * Central Moscow
 * Northern Moscow
 * Eastern Moscow
 * Western Moscow
 * Southern Moscow
 * Where Kolomenskoye might fit as a district called Moscow/Kolomenskoye.
 * Outer Moscow or perhaps Greater Moscow.
 * Any thoughts?-- (WT-en) Huttite 21:27, 25 Dec 2005 (EST)

In my belief, we have too little content right now for districtifying; I would refer here to "when [not] to districtify" recommendations we have recently outlined. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 02:46, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

Districts
For the upcoming CoTW for Moscow here is the Wikipedia'sMoscow district article. It also has a nice map of Moscow's districts, which is dual licensed. - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 14:10, 14 June 2006 (EDT)

 * This doesn't look like a good map for defining district borders, however: it's quite unclear which street each border line goes through. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:00, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Actually, most of the linked rayony do define street borders. But would these administrative divisions make for good travel regions of Moscow? Should the outer okruga be combined in some way? And I presume that the 1 okrug should also be divided into several Central Moscow districts, but I wouldn't know how to go about it. I'm not suggesting that we divide up the city yet, since there are so few listings in the article, but it would be nice to come up with a preparatory hierarchy. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 09:47, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

 * I can only see borders for rayons in Central okrug, and most of rayon (and okrug) articles not written yet. Am I missing something? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 11:48, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

 * Perhaps each rayon of the central okrug should get its own article? Moscow is such an enormous city—I think it would be fine to have some 20 districts, honestly. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 09:49, 2 October 2008 (EDT)

 * I think we can start with splitting into okruga, and many months (or even years) after that we'll have enough content for further splitting Central okrug into subdistricts. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 11:48, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

Actually on splitting Moscow to districts I'd recommend against going along administrative okrugs, since they are not going right along splitting the city for tourict interests. I'd recommend how I see splitting Moscow, though it's more for discussion.

I think, that the main division would be Central Moscow and Outer Moscow, and it's unclear, if further division is necessary. The Center has more sights and attractions, and as such, it is pretty good defined by Third Transport Ring (TTK). Further division, if there will be enough material, may go along radial ways, something like this: Kremlin and Kitai-Gorod; Ostogenka and Lugniki; Arbat and Kutuzovskii prospect; Tverskaya street; North of Center (Tsvetnoi boulevard, Dostoevskii Theater, Olimpiiskii); Chistye prudy and Taganka; Three Railway Station square, Kurskii Railway Station and Baumanskii district; Zamoskvorechje and Paveletskii Railway Station; Gorky park and Leninskii prospekt.

Outer Moscow (outside TTK) is almost completely a sleeper district, there are not so much sights, so probably no division would be a good idea. If ever a division idea comes up though, I'd recommend using natural transport bariers and not administrative. As such, following subdivisions may come later: North-East and North of Moscow (from Losiniy Ostrov (good as a part itself) to roughly following line: Leningrad railway - Dubki park - some 8th of March streets); North-West - to Moskva-River; West - South-West - South - to Paveletskii railway (large interconnected latest sleeper region with fewer sights); South-East - to Moskva-River (with Tsaritsyno and Kolomenskoye); East - the rest.95.27.174.52 11:54, 12 February 2011 (EST)

 * All interesting suggestions. I don't think there is any big rush to create a lot of divisions for the article, since content remains a little light, but who knows—districting might actually attract more contributions (I actually find it a little hard to contribute to such a broad article as (Central Moscow").  In any ultimate district scheme, I think it would be appropriate for multiple central district divisions as well as outer district divisions. Our contributors on Wikivoyage/ru have worked out a basic districts scheme (see discussion), which breaks down the central district into 12, and breaks down the outer regions in a manner rather similar to what you are suggesting, leaving 8 total.  There is a surprising amount to see even in the outer districts, and with enough knowledgeable contributors, we could actually fill out such articles into nice guides (and this would leave our printed-guide competition in the dust)—take a look at what User:Digr did with the Southwest section of the city.

 * I don't think the Russian version has really nailed down those central district boundaries, but I'd love to make a map if we could agree upon them. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:58, 15 February 2011 (EST)

 * Hi! I need to help about subdistrict names and areas! What is your suggestions? My idee the rings could be clear boundaries also with the directions (N, W, E, S). The Moscow Outskirts splittig for an inner outskirt (  a mid zone between Bulvar and the 3rd Circle on name so 'Between Rings' or 'Mid Belt'  ) with directions look like a good idee. Moscow Outskirts North.... or maybe with subdirections Moscow Outskirts North-East, ... & Moscow Between Rings North or Moscow Mid Belt North... full 8-10 Sub-distict, plus Central Moscow with four Sub-districts could be enough?! - - - Globetrotter19 (talk) 12:44, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
 * You can read a very instructive discussion here. There is no simple way of defining district borders in Moscow, and it is pretty clearly that you will not get any useful feedback on English Wikivoyage, where nobody even cared about new district articles created in a unilateral manner.
 * Our current understanding is that Central Moscow spans the whole area inside the "Third Ring". Ideally, we would like to split this area into 10-12 smaller districts, but we can't do it without seeing at least major attractions on a single map. So what we need is a very-very long list of attractions with coordinates, all in the same article, and preferably with Russian names. I was basically waiting for the outcome of your impressive work on copying churches and other things from Wikipedia, in order to transfer these lists into the Russian site and make a good use of them there. But we really need Russian names, because I can't understand half of these English names, even if they are correct from language point of view.
 * Now, regarding the districts outside the Third Ring, this topic is completely moot, because it involves outer districts (including the recently formed "New Moscow") and entangles with the regional sub-division of Moscow Oblast, which is presently anything but reasonable. So we better don't touch it. Central Moscow itself is a work for months... --Alexander (talk) 13:14, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

And a general comment for anyone reading this discussion. Moscow has a very regular circular layout, but it does not mean that you can make districts by slicing the whole city into rings. The central part is probably OK as a circle, but districts like "between the Garden Ring and the Third Ring" make absolutely no sense, because they span for kilometers and entail places, which are very far from each other. Administrative districts make no sense either. Even we, locals, do not always know where their boundaries are. --Alexander (talk) 13:14, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

If you see all of 'my' place has Russian name, sometimes more if I found any different, also finds some street name in Russian.

About "between the Garden Ring and the Third Ring" thing, called 'Belt' inside the Central Moscow, can be splitting four parts (N, W, E, S),

Moscow Central-East, inside the Garden Ring

Moscow Central-North, inside the Garden Ring

Moscow Central-South, inside the Garden Ring

Moscow Central-West, inside the Garden Ring

the 'Outsiders' can be:

Moscow Belt-North, (Leningradskiy prospekt to Krasnoprudnaya ulitsa)

Moscow Belt-East, (Krasnoprudnaya ulitsa to Volgogradskiy prospekt)

Moscow Belt-South, (Volgogradskiy prospekt to Moskva river)

Moscow Belt-West, (Moskva river to Leningradskiy prospekt)

This way anybody could easy find where is the right subdistrict for each place & then no "span for kilometers and entail places, which are very far from each other". Even if you don't cut the areas at the Garden Ring, that means doubled the distance. Or Not? --Globetrotter19 (talk) 19:04, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Where is the border between North and West, for example? Patriarshie Ponds, it is north or west? Cathedral of Christ the Savior, is it west or south? And where is Moscow Kremlin? Circle can be split into rings only. You can't break a circle into rectangular shapes, so north-west-south-east division can't be applied to Moscow in any reasonable manner.
 * However, we have lots of historical districts with rather well-defined borders. Замоскворечье, Хамовники, Арбат, Пресня... this is something to consider, but we have to think which of them are big and important enough to make their own article on Wikivoyage. As I said, it is not a trivial problem, so I would like to put everything onto the same map first.
 * Finally, if you think that the Garden Ring is a good boundary, you are mistaken. Certain districts, such as Taganka (Таганка), clearly sit on both sides of the Garden Ring. --Alexander (talk) 19:51, 9 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd reiterate my suggestion to divide center from sleeper districts by TTK. It's a good boundary, even if it doesn't perfectly divide mostly historic districts from sleeper, it does it much more perfectly then Garden Ring. Also, quaters of center within TTK does not have big distances actually. As for naming, first: Moscow Center - South is Zamoskvorechje, quite obviously. Other suggestions, tentative: Moscow Center - West - Arbat and Ostogenka. Moscow Center - North - Tverskaya and Tsvetnoy boulevard. Moscow Center - East - Chistye Prudy and Lefortovo. SakuraKojima (talk) 09:38, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi Sakura! I remember about your suggestions, and I think we all agreed to use TTK as the boundary. But sub-districts inside this huge Central Moscow are not as simple. Places like Presnya and Khamovniki are also highly relevant and should be included. The part beyond Zamoskvorechye (Donskoy Monastery, for example) is relevant as well, but it is no longer Zamoskvorechye. As you speak Russian, would you please keep an eye on the Russian article? I think that within a month we will make an effort on importing the listings collected by Globetrotter19, and proceed to sub-districts of Central Moscow afterwards. --Alexander (talk) 10:11, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Link to guide
I removed the following from the article as I don't believe it complies with Project:External links. *Moscow hotel guide (WT-en) OldPine 06:55, 5 September 2006 (EDT)

Racism in Moscow
Can anyone add that to the list? It would be wise to know about it. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 74.102.16.174 (talk • contribs)

 * What do you mean specifically? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 07:43, 10 June 2007 (EDT)

 * I mean that racism seems to be thriving in Moscow. It's good to put up an advice about it, or a warning, or something.

 * My Moscow knowledge is getting a bit dated (4 years), but my impression has usually been that racism is significantly less of a problem in Moscow relative to the rest of Russia. Perhaps we could include a note in the "stay safe" section regarding what non-white travelers and travelers who look like they are from the Caucasus should know, emphasizing the differences between Moscow and the rest of Russia? I'm not knowledgeable enough myself to do this well, but perhaps you have a better handle on it. Please feel free to plunge forward and edit the section yourself! --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 13:49, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

 * I have never been to any city in Russia, let alone Moscow. :) This is why I wrote it as a suggestion, not as a contribution, since I will admit that I do not have concrete knowledge of the city.  I was hoping that someone who has already been there could give some contribution to it.  And just so future readers would now, this is not a Russophobic rant.  I am actually quite the Russophile and I enjoy learning Russian.  I would love to visit the city one day, but I hope someone who has been there could give an insight into the issue so that those who travel there (to whom this issue is a concern) can take precautionary measures.  Thanks again!74.102.16.174 11:01, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Hi all. Has anyone been to Moscow recently and felt that racism was still rampant? Especially amongst non white people? Would like to know whether the following paragraph should stay or be deleted:

 * Non-white people should be especially vigilant since violent attacks have occurred, and most minorities are likely to be stopped for document checks by the police.--(WT-en) MarinaK 14:27, 13 June 2008 (EDT)MarinaK.

 * Still true as far as I know. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:57, 14 June 2008 (EDT)

 * Hi There! Just a small contribution to the talk: I am a 24 yr old spaniard/scotsman currently studying and working in Moscow. Although I am white, I look distinctly non-russian and could easily pass for someone from the Caucasus. I have been here for 7 months now and have to say I have seen not a trace of the agressive racism which many of us had been led to believe was rampant in Russia. On the contrary: both young and old have proven extremely friendly and even excited to chat to foreigners. What I have noticed, however, is a somewhat different attitude to the question of race/ethnicity than in the UK; for instance: A non-white family moves to Russia. Two generations later, their grandchildren will still be deemed "non-russian" just because of their appearence. People are automatically classified by the way they look, although it doesn't mean they are marginalised. Just look at the map of Russia. The vast majority of those millions do not conform to the stereotypical image of a white russian, so consequently they are "ne-russkiye"...they just happen to have a Russian passport. A little bit puzzling, you are right. One has to mention that mildly racist comments are quite acceptable in polite society here, some of which could be real 'gasp-provokers' in the UK. However, I'd like to reassert that it is simply a question of different values and attitudes. Russians do not live in the same multicoloured society that we celebrate in the UK or the US. Call it racist if you please. I don't. Hope I've helped! Regards, Finn McLafferty, Moscow. (11/3/09)

 * I am russian, living in Moscow for 30 years. Groups of violent skinheads, attacking non-white men is a typical scary thing foreigners usually talk about, but actually it is very uncommon. And it is even much less uncommon since mid 2000s. There is a general ongoing social conflict between native Moscow population and nations from Caucasus, especially Dagestan and Chechnya - they are muslims, and there is 200 year history of war with them, including two recent chechen wars. But if you don't look like chechen - it is not that dangerous to walk around Moscow. --77.37.208.193 19:25, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

Moscow map
This is a pretty cool map of Moscow that someone added to the page. Unfortunately, it definitely runs afoul of our Project:External links policy, but I thought I would dump it here as it may be useful to people working on this article. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 12:39, 28 June 2007 (EDT)

Mi Piace restaurants
Following the removal of this piece:
 * MI PIACE is a great salad and pizza restaurant in Moscow. Best pizza in Moscow.

This restaurant chain has really a solid reputation for its cuisine among locals, even despite its prices. I would vote that we keep it in some form; or at least discuss why we shouldn't. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 02:42, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

 * My feeling is that we are moving towards taking a slightly harder line with very incomplete listings. This one was shouting and had no address, so it wasn't very useful for travelers. But if you know the address, please do add it back in. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 03:19, 13 July 2007 (EDT)
 * Yes, I reverted it for the reasons Peter described - also because it was added to Splurge, which seemed out of place for a pizza and salad restaurant. If you can make the listing more useful for travelers, then please add it to the article. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 07:48, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I plunged forward with all I know; will update it one day if I visit the place myself. Can't promise it's the best place in something, so I don't mention it. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 15:41, 13 July 2007 (EDT)
 * Thanks, Denis! (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 17:38, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

Major rewrite
I edited the article, commenting out some of the bullshit. Might come back and add places to eat if anyone's interested. This article doesn't seem to get a lot of attention. Hello! Anyone there?--(WT-en) Apoivre 00:03, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Your edit looks good -- more information is always welcome! (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:29, 26 July 2007 (EDT)
 * Nice to see a familiar handle from FT. Is this to be a one-man mission to make a good guide to Moscow or may I hope someone will come along and help me with it?--(WT-en) Apoivre 01:07, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

 * You can hope, but I'm afraid I won't be joining you, as I haven't even been to Moscow. But the article's already been worked on by several dozen people, so it's just a matter of time until somebody else shows up. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:02, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I'd strongly recommend to edit the passage concerning bribing the police (Safety section) - it's a crime, naturally, to bribe a police officer. Actually, if you are not involved in an illegal activity, there's a little chance to get arrested. Not less than in N.Y., for example. Just try to dial you embassy hotline (if any) or you russian-speaking friend or colleague. If you've got entry visa, there's nothing to worry about. Just stay calm: panic (inspired by biases, huh) is very suspicious. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 89.178.98.242 (talk • contribs)

Pushkin cafe and restaurant
Apoivre, you are right that the mansion is fake--but why you decided to remove the piece on food quality there? If you consider a cafe just a great place to find a genuine Russian food, not a Tsatist-times cusine, it is really good, and it is really very much of the same quality you could find at your Russian friend's babushka (grandma) in the country :-) --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 07:49, 3 August 2008 (EDT)

 * In the meanwhile I tried to fit both opinions in a single review, see Moscow. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 13:06, 26 August 2008 (EDT)

individual opinions on controversial topics
We frequently see individual opinions and observations added by wikivoyageers that in most cases are just removed by admins without any trace left in the article. However, I believe that such opinions should be saved for later discussion and better wording of controversial topics.

Wait for some examples to get an idea of what I mean by this. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 15:00, 31 May 2008 (EDT)

 * I understand what you're saying, but I don't see much, if any, usable information in either of those comments. Is the Muscovite shwarma any more dangerous than the pelmeny?  If you find it difficult to use the subway if you don't speak Russian, will a taxi or bus be any easier? (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:15, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

shawarma
One shall be advised against risking a shawarma (sold on every second corner), though. Anyway, in Russia it has little in common with the Mediterranian namesake.

http://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Moscow&curid=4172&diff=836843&oldid=834393&rcid=795749

metro
I have used almost ever major city in the world's metro/subways and Moscow is by far the worst I have ever encountered. The cars work and the stations are not crubbling but if you do not have a Russian speaker stay far away from Moscow's metro/subways. Maps are a joke and do not help since they are wrong, the numbers and colors are wrong, unless you read the language you will never find your way, the ticket and subway workers are rude and none speak English, most of the other riders are rude and do not want to be bothered - they will not even try to help you. You have been warned, stay far away from Moscow's subways.

http://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Moscow&diff=prev&oldid=824535

banya rewrite
I attempted to rewrite a paragraph on banyas, but not sure my edition reflects all the considerations I have on the original version :
 * in Moscow, banya is most popular among people at the age of 40 and up; younger people (especially office workers) are less frequent among banya lovers
 * anyway, not many Moscovites frequent banyas, not to say visit them every week
 * Moscow has city banyas (and maybe even have some of the best city banyas in Russia), but it's private, rural banyas in a countryside that is really must-try when you visit Russia--and they can never be found in Moscow or even its nearest suburbs

Another thing to add is that younger people give more favour to saunas. but I'm not sure if it makes sense to recommend to travelers, as they have nothing special if you compare to Finland and Sweden.

Any ideas on what of the above can be incorporated to the article, and how, would be appreciated. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:44, 5 October 2008 (EDT)

When districting...
Remember that there is some content for Moscow/South hidden at the Kolomenskoye redirect page. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:29, 16 December 2009 (EST)

Dispose Bodily Wastes
This section looks like it put here by a troll. Should it be removed? --80.47.233.95 12:43, 11 April 2010 (EDT)

 * Thanks, I've pulled that section. If any of the information in there was valid/relevant it can be re-worked into the main article, rather than called out into its own top-level section. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 13:10, 11 April 2010 (EDT)

Picture of train
The picture of the train carriages at a station appear to be Chinese, not Russian.Travelpleb (talk) 20:18, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Alternative banner for this article?

In the Hebrew Wikivoyage we are currently using this banner instead of the one which is currently used here. Do you think too that this banner would would better than the existing one? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 06:20, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, I would prefer your banner. --Alexander (talk) 08:09, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Me too. The current banner is perfectly good, but this one is beautiful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:25, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Multiple levels of subdivision
I get the idea that the subdivision of Moscow has been changed recently so that there are three main district articles, one of which has 4 subdistricts under it. Given the amount of material we have, I believe that intermediary Central Moscow article is unnecessary and should be scrapped - it would be easier and more clear to have six districts directly linked under the main Moscow page. Cases like New York City, where we have way too much info to organize it into a single hierarchy level, are exceptions. In general we try to avoid having multiple levels of subdivision within a city when possible, and in the case of Moscow, it appears easily possible. Texugo (talk) 14:52, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, as I explained above, this whole district scheme does not make much sense, so it does not really matter how you organize it precisely. For example, Moscow Kremlin is not something that you can put into Central-North, Central-West, Central-East, or Central-South articles. But still it is in Central Moscow... --Alexander (talk) 15:40, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I had missed that conversation, since it is up in the midst of some very old conversations. It is unclear whether you are disagreeing with me, but in any case, if there are gaps in the coverage, the solution is not to have this intermediate-level article to catch stuff that falls in the cracks between other lower-level articles. What is needed is to redraw the districts completely so there are no gaps, and link all those districts directly from the main Moscow page. Texugo (talk) 16:12, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, I will also write it here, just for the record. A district scheme for Moscow is indeed needed. But the development of this scheme is by no means a simple task, and it hardly makes sense to draw boundaries without knowing what is inside. The best interim solution is to put everything back into the Central Moscow article, or keep things as they are, because the content is taken from Wikipedia and not very well suited for a travel guide anyway. So it does not really matter how many articles you have, whether they overlap, etc.
 * Unless several people here want to spend serious effort on writing about Moscow, you have to wait until a good solution appears in Russian Wikivoyage. It is not something that one can do in one hour or even in one evening. The problem of Moscow districts is on my list, and I will go back to it the moment we have enough editors who are familiar with the city. --Alexander (talk) 16:37, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Understood. In that case, I do think that it's better to revert everything back to how it was before the changes over the weekend, putting everything back in the Central Moscow article, until such time as a thorough no-gaps-no-overlaps district breakdown is defined and agreed upon. Texugo (talk) 16:42, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's my preferred option as well. I hope Globetrotter19 does not mind that some of his edits will be reverted, but it is the normal risk that you take when you implement districts without prior discussion. --Alexander (talk) 16:52, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi! I made subdistrict, because Alexander on my Talk page wrote me on 29 January 2014, With >100 randomly listed attractions, the articles become useless. I thought, he wish more subdistricts (articles),- with clear bounderies such rings and prospects,- for easier using. Sorry if I made it, wrong. - -Globetrotter19 (talk) 17:13, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * No problem. Thanks for trying to help, but I think we need to step back and discuss thoroughly before deciding on a division scheme, so let's put everything back the way it was before, for now, and then talk about the best way to divide the city with no gaps or overlaps and no unnecessary intermediate hierarchical level. Texugo (talk) 17:16, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

 * Yes, I did write you. Sorry if I was not clear, but I meant the following: We have to compile the list of attractions before deciding on the districts. --Alexander (talk) 17:26, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

 * Yes, I'm finished for a time & let you peace, for working. Start to make districts! Have a good work! --Globetrotter19 (talk) 14:10, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

What's then?
What is when admin(s) say, stop your work on this site, then 2 months happened nothing. Thereafter let a message "this project makes me very unhappy and stops me from contributing actively."? - - - Globetrotter19 (talk) 11:48, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I don't quite understand what you are talking about. Could you explain a little more? Texugo (talk) 11:53, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I think they stopped contributing waiting for Moscow subdivision. That still hasn't happened.  Stalled?  --Inas (talk) 12:25, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Yep. You are right Inas! - - - Globetrotter19 (talk) 15:37, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Constructive comments are always welcome! Active participation is welcome too. But if you propose a completely weird way of splitting Moscow into North, East, West and South without even taking care of Kremlin, which is exactly in the middle, then please, come up with a better suggestion or wait until other people do it, although this may take long-long time. If you check the Russian article, you will see that we have done a lot of work on the article about Kremlin and Kitay-Gorod, and we basically did it from scratch because your long lists of everything turned out to contain many mistakes, let alone very poor descriptions that are hardly suitable for a travel guide. We also discussed how to describe details without losing generality and feasibility for a first-time visitor, which you have lost the moment you added 100+ churches. Altogether, we are trying to make a good guide to Moscow. This really takes time. --Alexander (talk) 18:15, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Thank you for answering. And O.K. You have right Alex, I completly forget the Russian article.
 * P.S. I wish good work for all contributors and I'm excited waiting how splitting Moscow districts. - - Globetrotter19 (talk) 23:15, 30 April 2014 (UTC)

Districts - half done
The Moscow pages appear to be in a stalled half reorganisation state. Not very useful to travellers at the moment. I see from discussions above there is some disagreement of how to split the city divisions. There is also reference to a solution on the Russian site but I unfortunately cannot read that. There is probably no perfect solution, but any clear organisation is better than non. Anyone willing to be bold and state what they should be? --Traveler100 (talk) 09:09, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The first thing readers need is good up-to-date content, and there is none at the moment. Most of the content in the Moscow article(s) should be simply deleted because it is either wrong or unusable. Regarding the districts, there is a layout and the relevant map in the Russian article, although not all district articles have been written to date. You are welcome to introduce same districts here. --Alexander (talk) 16:18, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
 * On first impression that does look like a reasonable and clear split of districts. Any chance of providing English translations for these? --Traveler100 (talk) 18:31, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
 * I am not aware of common English names of these districts, so you can make literal translations or check which names are used in the English literature. --Alexander (talk) 18:55, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

District hierarchy naming
Shouldn't the subdistricts of Moscow be subdistricts of this page? So Central Moscow becomes Moscow/Central, Moscow Central-North to Moscow/Central-North, so on and so forth. James A ▪ talk 08:13, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

 * ✅ James A ▪ talk 11:21, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

These perversions are not “districts”. There are some chunks of territory chosen by editors arbitrarily, and have nothing to do with (incidentally named similarly) okrugs of Moscow or names of their sub-districts. By the way, after a large belt of the city—hundreds km2—belongs to nowhere in your delimitation. Really, has anybody here some sense what the Moscow's 3rd Ring refers to? Also, the editor Globetrotter19 seemingly isn’t accustomed to maps, save for poor understanding of Russian toponymy and sources. isn’t anywhere close to either Zelenograd or New Moscow. It pertains to Moscow Oblast and is located adjacently to South-Eastern Administrative Okrug of Moscow, that isn’t associated in any way with either Zelenograd or New Moscow. Incnis Mrsi (talk) 14:03, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

Districts talk (2017)
Hello Incnis Mrsi, Alexander, Globetrotter19, Texugo and everyone else. I have created a dynamic district map for Moscow based on the official "Okrugs" of the city - similar to the Russian Wikivoyage page. Please have a look below. I am not sure whether we really need so many articles though. Maybe it makes sense to combine the 8 suburb articles into 4:

 * North-West and North into North-West
 * North-East and East into North-East
 * South-East and South into South-East
 * South-West and West into South-West

Let's finally bring this article forward instead of fingerpointing, shall we?--Renek78 (talk) 21:30, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

 * This issue has been discussed at length in Russian Wikivoyage, and boundaries of individual districts have been established. Administrative boundaries, which you used, do not make much sense here, especially those that randomly stretch beyond the Moscow Ring Road.
 * Two crucial points are as follows: i) Central Moscow covers a relatively large area, but it is further split into 10 sub-districts. ii) Outer districts also follow the two-level scheme in the sense that there are well-defined historical areas like Kolomenskoe, Sokolniki, and Ostankino, which merit individual articles. The articles for bigger outer districts (North, North-West, etc.) are merely a collection of stuff that did not fit anywhere else. And yes, there are some attractions in each of these 8 outer districts, although they are not of immediate relevance to short-time visitors. --Alexander (talk) 07:25, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

 * Alexander, thanks for your feedback. I completely missed, that the central district was subdivided even further in the Russian Wikivoyage. I can set it up in a similar fashion. I am just afraid, that we'll end up with 19 Wikivoyage articles for Moscow - 8 suburb & 1 central overview & 10 central - of whom 12 are stubs or filled with information, which is only relevant to monks or preachers (i.e. listing of each and every church and monastery in the city, like we have it now).--Renek78 (talk) 13:18, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Renek78, we discussed this district scheme at length. We are confident that there is enough content for 19 articles (in fact, about 30, because you have to count historical areas outside of Central Moscow, as well as Moscow underground that merits its own article) if one intends to describe Moscow comprehensively. Since several years we put our efforts into filling the articles with relevant information. You can check here how an article about a tiny district in the city center should look like.
 * The chaotic information about churches, which you see here in English Wikivoyage, is, on the other hand, completely irrelevant. Moscow was one of the articles badly damaged by Globe-trotter19. In my opinion, all contributions by this user should be mass deleted because they do nothing but clutter the pages and prevent any development. If you make bold cleaning, the content will fit into one article (as it was before 2013), and no districts will be needed at this point.
 * I see two possibilities, either clean up all irrelevant, unsystematic and badly written stuff and remove the districts, or make a proper distrification following Russian Wikivoyage, but the articles will mostly remain stubs (unless you plan to invest significant effort into writing them). --Alexander (talk) 14:56, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * First off, Moscow is such a big city that I do think some sort of district division could be useful for travelers. We probably don't need as many as 19 of them, as mentioned above, a couple of districts for the central parts of the city and one for each cardinal direction is probably closer to optimum. I also agree that our current district articles should be cut down quite a bit, because as of now travelers are drowned in listings. On the other hand, current district articles suffer from a lack of listings in all the sections below Do (this seems to be a problem in Russian WV too, especially for districts further out). --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:12, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I have no knowledge of Moscow and no opinion about whether or how to district Moscow on en.voy, but I'd just like to point out that mere size is not per se a reason to district: Consider the case of Karachi, a much more populous city than Moscow which is deliberately undistricted. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:51, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. One comprehensive article is much better than meaningless district articles. --Alexander (talk) 19:05, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * There is one advantage of having similar districts on the English and Russian article in my opinion: All it needs are a few Russian friends with good English knowledge, who "only" have to translate the Russian articles ;). Independently of the community decision I have created a dynamic map for the central districts as well (please see below).--Renek78 (talk) 19:56, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Why not to use district boundaries from Russian Wikivoyage? I have drawn them with a few meter precision making sure that boundaries of different districts match, and all deviations from administrative boundaries are very intentional. Your current 'Maryina Roscha' district does not include the actual neighborhood of 'Maryina Roscha', and the split in the south is anything but meaningless, because most of the monasteries are excluded. --Alexander (talk) 21:30, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Alexander, I would have done that but couldn't figure out, how to access that information on the Russian Wikivoyage. But since it is your work: Can you tell me how to get the geojson of your map?--Renek78 (talk) 07:01, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * District boundaries are stored in Template:Boundary/PAGENAME, where PAGENAME stands for the name of the district page. Eventually, they could/should be moved to the Data: namespace on Commons. --Alexander (talk) 07:37, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... not able to find it. "Template:Boundary/Pagename" here on Wikivoyage or Commons? I tried all types of URL's now without success. Could you give me the link to the Moscow overview map as an example? Thanks! --Renek78 (talk) 09:09, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * You should check at Russian Wikivoyage. For example, this template contains the boundary for the city center (Москва/Центр). Other boundaries can be found by changing the district name in the name of the template. For example, this one stands for Arbat. Maps of outer districts (North, South, etc.) should be drawn more carefully, but it's crucial and intentional that they also deviate from administrative boundaries. --Alexander (talk) 13:47, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks Alexander! Please have a look below. Since I am on it I thought of setting up a simplified district map as well, so people can later decide on which one to add to the article. I did something quick and dirty and wanted to ask you whether this is reasonable or not: http://bl.ocks.org/d/fb664f3ee0afaddb0c8206c34e6320b6 --Renek78 (talk) 22:06, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I see that you created the Data page on Commons. I have a few comments in this respect. First, placing all boundaries on one page prevents us from displaying boundaries in individual district articles. For example, here the map displays the district boundary, which is only possible when we can access this boundary individually. Second, I am not sure whether it is a good idea to specify colors in the data file on Commons. This was normally part of the regionlist template. Can one overwrite the colors using the template? If not, I would remove them from the data file.
 * As for the 'simplified' map, no, it does not make much sense to me. You can see that the districts were discussed at length in Russian Wikivoyage, and many knowledgeable people weighed in, so, honestly, I don't expect anyone here to come up with a better suggestion. You can't use Boulevard Ring as the boundary of the central district, because many neighborhoods like Arbat and Pokrovka straddle the Boulevard Ring. Garden Ring is a slightly better choice, but you still have a problem with the Tagansky district and Zamoskvorechye, which can't be naturally split by the Garden Ring. Once again, the boundaries of Central Moscow have been well-thought, and choosing them differently won't be a good idea. --Alexander (talk) 22:31, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Alexander, boundaries can be created with so called "Mapmasks". The code is converted from a gpx with help of gpx2mapmask. Since I have drawn the contours with JOSM it is easy to export a gpx and apply gpx2mapmask. I have created the mapmasks for each of the 18 articles and pasted them below. Examples for Wikivoyage articles with maps saved in Commons and mapmasks are Kuala Lumpur and Amsterdam, which I have created recently. Colors, names and opacity can be changed very conveniently right in the GeoJSON in Commons. Just click on edit and search for the value you want to change.
 * So if I understand you correctly then it is either everything (19 articles) or nothing (1 article) for Moscow. This surprises me quite a bit, frankly. There must be another way to split the city for a less exhaustive travel guide - even if it is just for the next 5 years plus until there is enough information to split to 19 articles.--Renek78 (talk) 19:21, 1 July 2017 (UTC)
 * It is more efficient to have boundary information in one place, so I would not support generation of separate mapmasks for each district. You can have one data file per district and use the same data file everywhere.
 * As for the smaller number of districts, you are welcome to propose a different scheme, but "there must be" is not a meaningful argument. As they currently stand, the Moscow articles contain a lot of rubbish. All useful information can be put back into a single article for the next 5 years, that's the easiest solution. --Alexander (talk) 05:29, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

Map mask for all 18 district articles
Below are individual "Mapmasks" for each of the 18 Moscow district articles. The code will grey out everything outside the district border. It just has to get pasted below the Mapframe. Example: Amsterdam - Binnenstad
 * Arbat

 * Basmanny

 * East

 * Khamovniki

 * Kremlin

 * Maryina

 * North

 * North-East

 * North-West

 * Pokrowski

 * Presnya

 * South

 * South-East

 * South-West

 * Taganskaya

 * Tverskaya

 * West

 * Zamoskvorechye

Embassies phone numbers
Can someone confirm or contradict the assumption that the dash / in the phone numbers show alternative numbers and not that a / has to be entered when dialling or is a method of separating a long single number? --Traveler100 (talk) 07:27, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:22, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Тверь-коллаж1.jpg

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:21, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Международный автовокзал «Южные ворота» в Москве.jpg

title: Talk:Moscow


text:
Talk:Moscow (Idaho)

west of paris closed
West of Paris went out of business last summer and a new place called Bloom popped up in its place. It is owned and operated by the same people who run Nector. It has kept the french flavor, but it is for breakfast instead of dinner. Very good, affordable, and fresh. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 129.101.30.166 (talk • contribs)

 * Please plunge forward and make the changes! -- (WT-en) D. Guillaime 19:02, 20 March 2012 (EDT)

title: Talk:Moscow (Idaho)


text:
Talk:Moscow to Urumqi

Good start, looks like it is developing towards a fine article. As a Canadian living in China who has never been to Russia, I am looking forward to reading more, perhaps planning a trip based on it. (WT-en) Pashley 05:41, 23 March 2009 (EDT)

Single entry visa?
Hi there,

does anyone have actual information about the direct train Moscoc-Almaty? Is there only a single-entry-visa needed for Russia and Kazhakstan? We start this trip in about two weeks and only have singel-entry. Now we are a bit concerned...

Merge where?
This article is currently tagged for a merge to Urumqi, which is remarkably silly. Since that part of the merge suggestion makes no sense, I'm inclined to question the whole suggestion and suggest we should keep this article.

On the other hand, there does seem to be an argument for merging — this is not a particularly well-known or standardised route. However, if it is merged, it should mostly go to Central Asia, perhaps with parts to Urals or parts added into Trans-Siberian Railway as a possible branch off it. Pashley (talk) 15:08, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

 * Checking, I find the tag has been there for about two years. We should resolve this. Pashley (talk) 15:10, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

 * Eurasia maybe? ϒpsilon (talk) 15:24, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

 * I think the best solution would be to keep the article and improve it, if anyone who knows the route(s) well enough would like to do so, beginning with a route map. It doesn't seem really logical to me to merge this with anything - least of all, such a general article as Eurasia. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:49, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

 * No further comment in about six weeks. I have removed the tag. Pashley (talk) 02:50, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

So I added an empty go section
Is there anybody who might possibly know how to fill it with subsections? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:35, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Banner Suggestion

 * Banner I is used in the article now, but there are many great banners. Therefore, please write your view to decide which banner is suitable for the article.——Joe young yu (talk) 00:31, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Moscow to Urumqi


text:
Talk:Moshi

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Comments
It is always a good idea to keep funds and valuables on your person, or checked at the front desk.

 * Buffalo Hotel The original entry for this hotel was written 20 May 2007 11:10 from 82.157.202.150 and noted "Try to get a room on one of the upper floors, on the lower floors people can walk in through the bar, so your stuff isn't so safe inside your room." This cautionary note was removed on the edit of 7 December 2008 05:38 from 41.204.128.126.

The person who reported this has reported this on several hotel review sites, while all other reviews are positive, it gives a weird feeling about this reporter. As a person who stays in this hotel 5x per year, I have never experienced such things.
 * Kindoroko Hotel, Kilimanjaro Backpacker's Hotel On 2 January 2010 19:17 from 87.208.5.192 it was noted: "WARNING: staff and management have sophisticated system to steal around 25% of your money and hope you don't notice!"  However, no further details were provided.

Promotional language
This article needs considerable cleanup. I did some, but I need help. And once it's cleaned up, vigilance will be needed against advertisers who edit it to their pecuniary benefit. Thanks, everyone! (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 05:11, 17 March 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Moshi


text:
Talk:Mosquitoes

Just a tip on something you might like to discuss: where can you get these repellants? Are they easily obtainable in affected countries? Sold at airports? Should you get them before you leave home? I ask because I'm about to go to Thailand and really, I have no idea. - (WT-en) Hypatia 05:50, 6 Oct 2004 (EDT)

 * DEET is pretty common in the US. The others I've seen for sale on websites. I make one with neem and catnip but my company's not set up yet. Andiroba grows in northern Brazil and Guyana and neem in India (both are in the mahogany family and work similarly). The research on catnip is recent, so you probably won't find many products with it yet. -(WT-en) phma 21:00, 6 Oct 2004 (EDT)

Moved page
Since prevention of mosquito bites is done in various ways, such as repellent, nets, not being outdoors at night and so on, I moved the page from mosquito repellent to mosquitoes. (WT-en) Hypatia 23:28, 4 Dec 2004 (EST)

Scientific content
I've made the edit to add a lot (?) of scientific information about mosquitoes to the article, which was subsequently cut. I understand the need for wikivoyage *not* to be a scientific information source, but I specifically narrowed my additions of information to that relating to biting, and a few notes on the history. Especially the last paragraph, relating to blood types, may be useful to some people. I know I find it interesting (therefore I added it), but is it really considered too much? I'm willing to re-work it (I have read the style guidelines), but how to proceed? Do I add an "Overview" section? --(WT-en) Dewet 23:40, 27 Dec 2004 (EST)

Copyvio
Unless you are the sole author of the Wikipedia article, you cannot copy any of it here (see Project:Cooperating with Wikipedia). Someone needs to go through this article and remove the copied content. (I'm going to stay out of the conversation about what the content of this article should be like, so please go ahead and continue that conversation) -- (WT-en) Colin 00:24, 28 Dec 2004 (EST)

 * Ah. I did not realise there is a licensing clash;  therefore the introductory / history information should be removed as it is a verbatim copy.  The changes I made to the prevention section (including adding the drugs) is my own work, so I'll leave that in.  Thanks for the clarification.  ((WT-en) Dewet 00:57, 28 Dec 2004 (EST))

 * If the content came from Wikipedia we can simply link to it and save the hassle of rewriting it here. I will do that shall I... - (WT-en) Huttite 05:14, 4 Jan 2005 (EST)

Prophylaxis
I think the whole Mosquitoes should move to Malaria. I think the Mosquitoes article should be confined to the more general issue of mosquitoes and preventing bites etc. as mosquitoes spread other diseases as well. Perhaps a table of countries where mosquitoes are and the diseases they carry and a brief comment about vaccinations etc for each with references to the individual tropical diseases. -- (WT-en) Huttite 05:25, 4 Jan 2005 (EST)

 * I can see your reasoning; maybe that is a good idea. I feel that the whole mosquito/malaria/etc topic(s) should be kept together (that's why I had all the scientific info in there as well), seeing as the whole "printable guide" idea would probably tackle this as a single "mosquitoes" entry.  Dunno if I'm making any sense, however ;)  As to the prevalence of mosquitoes, they are pretty much everywhere except antarctica, so I doubt a table would be that helpful.  If you just look at the malaria distribution, it stretches in a belt around the world, coming as low down as sub-tropical regions on either side of the equator.  --(WT-en) Dewet 15:15, 4 Jan 2005 (EST)

 * New Zealand, where I live, has a problem with mosquitoes arriving here on ships and aircraft. Our border bio-security people go to great trouble to prevent them coming here, and even greater trouble to eradicate them once they arrive and colonise a place. The fear isn't Malaria but the incurable mosquito borne diseases like Dengue and Ross River virus. The Prophylaxis section only applies to Malaria, not the other diseases, which are endemic in some of the Pacific Islands and probably carried by some people in NZ. The options are:

 * 1) Either all the information on all the diseases comes into one article, which would make it huge and only half of it would be applicable anyway,
 * 2) Or this is a general overview, with detailed information under the individual diseases, but with the common stuff and intros fir each disease in this article.
 * I am inclined to the latter, since we already have 2 articles about the diseases carried by mosquitoes. Is that an OK approach? -- (WT-en) Huttite 19:34, 4 Jan 2005 (EST)

 * OK, I think your second suggestion would be the way forward. We generalise the Mosquito article to be a generic summary (ie., just a few basic facts) and bite-prevention page, and then from there link to all the various diseases that mosquitoes carry.  I assume that eg. dengue and yellow fever are transmittable through other means as well — that would strengthen the case to split them off.  --(WT-en) Dewet 05:48, 5 Jan 2005 (EST)

 * Dengue and yellow fever are in different parts of the world and spread by different species, I understand. My thinking on the split was that there is common information (Mosquitoes) and geographically specific information (diseases). Having separate articles means travellers can select their specific combination of articles. -- (WT-en) Huttite 06:02, 5 Jan 2005 (EST)

Merge
I think the article is long enough that merging it with Pests would be less than ideal. The link from there should be enough.

 * Keep this article, it has sufficient size to stand on its own. /Yvwv (talk) 23:47, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

 * I disagree. It's short enough to move with a redirect. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:16, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

 * It is often good to link to a specific pest from the Stay safe section of a destination article. There is very little general information in the pest article, so linking to Mosquitoes is definitively better than linking to Pests. Even those wanting to read about pests in general are better served with a summary paragraph and a link than with a section as long as this article. --LPfi (talk) 08:27, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

 * I've merged copy from this page into Pests based on the request to do so in the "merge" notice. A fair bit of the content was already replicated there. Given the debate here, however, I will wait a few weeks before creating a redirect page. Jnich99 (talk) 09:23, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

 * No further comment so will redirect now. --Nick talk 21:27, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Prevention de Béchamp, Ph.D.?
If travelers ARE indeed concerned about the mosquito itself, then why never let the tour guide prevent any outbreak of any pest, anyway? It's more cheaper in that sense, for self-explanatory starters. --Lo Ximiendo (talk) 12:44, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mosquitoes


text:
Talk:Mostar

Kuna or KM?
A number of prices throughout the guide were changed from kuna (Croatian currency) to KM (Bosnian currency) in this edit. As those two currencies are not pegged to each other 1 to 1, I'm not terribly convinced that just changing the currency unit will make the prices right. Bosnia and Herzegovina states that local Croats in B&H accept kuna, and Project:Currency recommends we use the currency that travellers will encounter, no matter if it's the local/national currency or not. I'm not sure about the situation in Mostar, so I will not revert the change but I suggest anyone with enough local information to have a through check on prices in the guide. – (WT-en) Vidimian 08:46, 5 June 2010 (EDT)

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 * Mostar-Muslibegovica kuca - muzeum.jpg

title: Talk:Mostar


text:
Talk:Mount Agung

Knocking this important article into shape. Not sure that a Park template is the right one.. but let's see how it develops. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 02:02, 13 September 2009 (EDT)

Besakih Article
As discussed, I merged the Besakih article here and put a re-direct in place. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 08:54, 15 September 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mount Agung


text:
Talk:Mountains and Lakes Country

This region contains the following counties:

 * Barbour
 * Braxton
 * Clay
 * Doddridge
 * Gilmer
 * Harrison
 * Lewis
 * Marion
 * Monongalia
 * Nicholas
 * Preston
 * Tyler
 * Upshur
 * Webster

(WT-en) Fastestdogever 09:57, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mountains and Lakes Country