text:
Talk:Chicago/Bridgeport-Chinatown

Push for Star
What's your feeling about this article relative to Star status? What needs to be worked on? It looks good, but having only been here for a couple of White Sox games (at Old Comiskey), I'm not in a position to say what's missing. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 15:23, 25 August 2007 (EDT)

 * I've held off on this one only because I don't know it half as well as I know the other two south side districts. But I suppose that it really is pretty much a star as well. The Bridgeport section is solid and probably needs no work. Perhaps some more local lore would be interesting, but I don't think I can provide much beyond what's already there. But there are too many Chinatown restaurant listings. It is a restaurant-centric destination, but I still think I could trim that a bit. Other things:

 * Short descriptions for the various sections
 * Look over the history books once more—I'm sure there are some interesting bits I've left out
 * There's a bar in the southwest side (just across the border) that needs to be mentioned in the Get out section.

 * I'll take a stab at this after I finish the Near North map (so... many... listings...). --Peter 16:53, 25 August 2007 (EDT)

 * I added a little bit of history. (Don't have my history books on hand at the moment, unfortunately.) God help you with that Near North map. I wish it made any sense to split that one any further, but it doesn't. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 18:23, 25 August 2007 (EDT)

 * OK, I'm satisfied with the content of this article now. I still need to update the listings on the maps, and should have that done shortly. But one remaining problem is that I can't find any worthwhile photos of Bridgeport with proper licensing. I figure I could fix that with an hour or two of driving around with a digital camera, but I'll need to get to Chicago first.) I'm actually thinking about taking a week to head out there, have some fun using these guides, and satisfy an intensely burning hunger for Harold's Chicken Shack, but I'm still trying to figure out how to keep my costs very low. I'm thinking a certain transient hotel might be a good bet ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:22, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

 * By all means, some street-level Bridgeport photos would be nice, but if you can snag a Chinatown gate and a Comiskey off Flickr or Wikimedia, we've got something to nominate. (After all, as the box says, one is still encouraged to plunge forward even after it's a star.) If there's a Bridgeport photo you like, you might try emailing the owner directly and asking them to license it - people are usually flattered to be asked, and I've had success with that. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 00:11, 27 August 2007 (EDT)

 * Unfortunately the photography desert is dryer than that. I haven't found any decent free Comiskey Park photos and I'm already satisfied with our Sino-selection. I did email someone who has very nice Bridgeport and Comiskey shots under copyright, so maybe something will come of that. In any rate, the maps are done; all the page needs is 2 more good photos of different material, then it's a star in my opinion. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:40, 27 August 2007 (EDT)

 * And just one more thing, I think a Bridgeport street photo really is necessary before we can say that nothing is missing, because I think people should know what they're getting into. It's a pretty safe area crime-wise, but it has a real weird twilight-zone creepy quality to it. I've definitely heard rumors that its haunted. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:43, 27 August 2007 (EDT)

Removed listings
First Base bar is listed as Closed by two websites: Yelp and Dining Chicago. Apple Maps seems to agree. The only reason I'm not actually deleting its listing is because I haven't confirmed it in person. --Scott

Chicago's soxiest Sox bar forced to close as soon as the team's post-season ends. I doubt they'll reopen, but if they do, I'll stick this back in the article. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:15, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

 * Yeah, shitty behavior by their landlords. A shame. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 18:31, 3 October 2008 (EDT)

They'll probably open again in a new location, so hopefully I'll get to move this listing back into the article. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:06, 23 December 2008 (EST)

Penang and Red-I are closed due to one heck of a grease fire, and are hypothetically going to reopen on 1 April. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:39, 1 February 2009 (EST)  Yep, April Fools  --(WT-en) Peter Talk 03:15, 11 April 2009 (EDT)

Everything is on fire in Chinatown. Moon Palace too, although personally I don't think that one is up to snuff with the restaurant listings in the article. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:28, 6 February 2009 (EST)
 * CCA museum is back up and running as of their grand re-opening 25 September 2010. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:52, 5 September 2010 (EDT)

Closed. Looks like it's a real loss. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 18:54, 31 January 2010 (EST)

 * My god that's horrible! This was an irreplaceable gem, known in foodie circles throughout the whole Chicagoland area... I loved it to death on a cold day. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:13, 1 February 2010 (EST)

 * Yeah, I stumbled across the unfortunate news because there had been so much mourning over its closure. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 01:11, 1 February 2010 (EST)

mn isn't returning my emails, and that website is quite outdated, so I'm guessing they are effectively no longer operating. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:12, 26 September 2010 (EDT)

Ack, Shui Wah was far and away my favorite dim sum in the city! --Peter Talk 19:59, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Star nomination
I feel like there just aren't enough star districts for Chicago, so here's one more. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:08, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
 * Support, after taking a quick skim, I think it looks great! All the listings look complete, the maps and pictures are good, and there's lots of good info. Though, It does surprise me that there's only two places to sleep in the whole district, but if that is indeed the case then very well. (And no, there's just aren't enough star districts for Chicago. :-) I wouldn't want to see you stop until the whole city is one big, glorious, shining star!) (WT-en) PerryPlanet 13:33, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

 * Support. Nobody embodies the MoS more than Gorilla Fitzgerald – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 19:00, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

 * Support. Yup, this is a comprehensive one. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 14:10, 27 October 2007 (EDT)

 * Any more comments before this one is called? Both of us are grateful for feedback... (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 20:20, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

Star article without coordinates?
Surprised that some of the eat, drink and sleep listings don't have coordinates and yet this is a star. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:16, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

 * This was made a star before any dynamic maps were used on this site. And I think that would be completely adequate if all the listings were clearly visible on the maps. However, I'm having trouble finding some of them. Ideally, the static map should be edited as warranted, and you could also supply a togglable dynamic map if you like. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:29, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Chicago/Bridgeport-Chinatown


text:
Talk:Chicago/Bronzeville

Hotels
I removed a few hotels whose phone numbers were wrong or disconnected and about which I couldn't find any updated information. I moved the following three here because the phone lines were being "checked for trouble", so they might still be active.

There are web listings for Zanzibar 5 Motel that give the same phone and address as the Eagle Inn/Motel, but the phone operator answered as Eagle, so I'm going with that. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 19:10, 27 June 2007 (EDT)

Closed? blues clubs

Sad to take this one out, but they haven't made any noise in a while, and their phone # is temporarily disconnected. Hopefully they'll come back around, but for now I'll leave the listing here. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:16, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

 * Here's another sad one (the "blues district" sure has lost a lot of blues clubs since gaining that designation). Most facts seem to point towards being closed: the door is locked, the phone number doesn't work, and the internets are silent (although that almost goes w/o saying for the South Side). But then again, they've still got their name up. I'll leave it here and wait and see. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:35, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

Star nomination
Some of the other Chicago districts might be on their way to stardom, but I think Bronzeville is already there. I really can't think of anything else that would improve this article, aside from maybe a few new photographs that I'd like to take when back in town (but the ones in the article are more than adequate). I think the article is perfectly formatted according to the MoS and there isn't anything missing that I'm aware of, aside from some run-down establishments that I wouldn't want anyone to visit. But who knows, perhaps the prose is not tight enough. Please let me know what you think! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:16, 19 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Support. Extremely nice article.  I didn't see any obvious areas for improvement after glancing over it, although the "Do" and "Buy" sections (and maybe some of the others) might be improved by adding an introductory paragraph that gives a general overview of what the scene is like.  Otherwise this looks good, and the map looks particularly great. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 21:32, 19 July 2007 (EDT)
 * The newly-added intros are great - a quick overview that gives an idea of the highlights. Full support from me. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 22:45, 26 July 2007 (EDT)
 * Support. Exceptional work on an undeservedly over-looked destination. Remarkably thorough - I'd be very surprised if a better guide to Bronzeville existed in any form. And that map is a stunner. I'd love to see this article supplemented with a walking tour. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 21:44, 19 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Just a little update, in case other people are watching this discussion and haven't made up their minds: I have added short introductory paragraphs to all sections, but am holding off on a walking itinerary. I haven't walked around the sites myself (I've only visited with a car) and I'm just not sure how long a walk it would be. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:21, 26 July 2007 (EDT)
 * I'd really like to see all of Chicago become a star, not just a few districts of it... (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:34, 26 July 2007 (EDT)
 * Patience my friend. (WT-en) Marc and I are working hard to make the whole city a star, but in the meantime I could use the positive reinforcement for some of the districts I have slaved over. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:48, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Support. Excellent article. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 01:12, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Last call for comments before we star this one - 14 days are up today. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 16:36, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

 * Support. I just made a pass-through to fix a few remaining typos, and came away impressed by the tremendous work you guys did on this.  Make it so! -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 13:26, 4 August 2007 (EDT)

Closed listings

Sigh. That real estate bust hurt this brittle neighborhood big time, which means closures. I'll give these folks a call just to make sure, but otherwise I'll see if I can't find anything else to add to the article. Baba's is a stretch for a travel recommendations, but I do like that place... --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:44, 20 October 2009 (EDT)

Closed due to fire. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 22:26, 25 February 2010 (EST)

 * Oh holy crap. Five listings—really good listings—were in that (large) building! At least no one was hurt. I've got some phone calls to make to see if this article has just been obliterated... --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:03, 27 February 2010 (EST)

And obliterated it has been. Fortunately, it does sound as though Spoken Word at least plans to re-open, and the owner of the building wants to re-open quickly and encourage all the businesses to re-open as well. For the time being, though, Bronzeville's most culturally important businesses have almost all gone up in flames, and with them, much of our travel guide... What an awful year for the neighborhood. Here are the rest:

Richard's was only half open when I was last in Chicago, but it looks to be fully closed now. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:28, 4 September 2010 (EDT)

Here is another following today's update:

--Peter Talk 19:00, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Map
FYI...I noticed "Michael Reese Hospital" was spelled "Hopspital."(WT-en) Zepppep 21:25, 23 May 2010 (EDT)

 * Fixed. Thanks for catching that!  --(WT-en) Peter Talk 06:57, 24 May 2010 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Chicago/Bronzeville


text:
Talk:Chicago/Central

I'm wondering if we really need this page. Maybe we should just link to each of the sub-districts from Chicago and get rid of the link to this one? It's always going to be pretty much for navigation, no? -- (WT-en) Mark

 * Yeah, my initial idea was that we would treat the districts like regions and only list the top-level districts on the main Chicago article (Central Chicago, South Side, North Side, Far North Side, etc.) and then only list the sub-districts on the top-level district pages. As it is now, the districts section of the Chicago article is very long and perhaps overwhelming. I'm still not sure how best to proceed with this. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 12:05, 13 June 2007 (EDT)
 * I agree, we could delete this one. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 14:15, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Cool.

 * I'm having this post-tense worry though that I'm being unclear about one thing, which is that I don't think we should do this for any of the other top-level districts. At least not until they are so full of stuff that they feel like the main Chicago article used to feel.  As it is we don't really have enough material for the near north and near south, but it shouldn't be too hard to come up with. -- (WT-en) Mark 18:04, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Yup, best to be clear—I do think we should do this for other top level districts, especially for the Near South and Near North. It's going to take me a while to get there, but I intend to go one by one and will fill out each of the districts outlined this map. If your concern is that this will result in a lot of sudden empty district articles, don't worry. I actually do intend to go one by one, creating at least usable district articles with street maps, much as I have so far for the Chicago/Loop and Chicago/Near North. In any rate, don't think that our current set up on the main Chicago article looks very good (too cluttered)— I'll try adding the Template:Regionlist in the next couple hours to see how it looks. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:51, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

 * I'm a big fan of Peter's new set-up. I think it looks sleek and it should be easy for travelers to use. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 00:05, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Chicago/Central


text:
Talk:Chicago/Chatham-South Shore

Closed listings
This one must have closed recently, sadly. The (very cool) sign is still up, so here's to hoping it will reopen at some point. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:05, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

Another famous, long-established South Side institution bites the dust... Recessions suck. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:27, 21 October 2009 (EDT)

Celebrity Lounge is actually still open, but they're not doing live blues anymore, so I've taken it out. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:39, 25 September 2010 (EDT)

Closed, with small hope of re-opening in the future. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 19:09, 4 February 2011 (EST)

These last two really hurt personally. I loved Izola's. One of my favorite late-late night haunts for friendly conversation and good food. I can only hope they reopen—they were real cultural icons of the neighborhood and more generally of the South Side. I'll keep my Izola pic here as a little shrine to what once was great. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:10, 23 February 2011 (EST)

Yep, that's my favorite blues club in the world that closed. Late 2011, it seems, the landlord would not renew the lease. --Peter Talk 18:00, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Star nomination
Let the torrent follow the drought. This is actually a new Chicago district, following a reshuffle of the hierarchy, and I'm pretty sure it's up to star standards. The formatting should be correct, it lists just about everything of note—the cream of the crop anyway, and I don't know if I could bear the sight of a South Side district without a star on top. My Chicago love is such that I can't pick a favorite neighborhood, but man the BBQ is good down here! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 03:25, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

 * Support wholeheartedly. Another mind-blowing Chicago guide, Peter! Anywho, on to the nitpicking: I see there's no prices for Dat Donuts; I'm not sure if that was intentional, since it's a donut shop, but it might be good to know how much one of their fabulous donuts will cost. There's also no hours for the Club Escape. Other than that, looks awesome, what with all the BBQ, Blues, and Blues Brothers. (WT-en) PerryPlanet Talk 13:09, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

 * I can't believe I forgot the donut prices! That was my regular 4AM haunt for a long while (tryin' to cut back on the donuts lately). Anyway, fixed, and thanks once again for catching these missed details. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:43, 23 April 2009 (EDT)

 * Support. I'm biased, obviously, but it consistently blows my mind how a skinny white kid is the foremost authority on Chicago's fried chicken, BBQ, and soul food establishments. But he is! There's a best-selling diet book in there somewhere. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 23:57, 29 April 2009 (EDT)

 * Support Looks good --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 09:54, 3 May 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Chicago/Chatham-South Shore


text:
Talk:Chicago/Districts discussion

Content moved here from Talk:Chicago

Districts discussion

Speaking as a relatively new resident in Chicago (and still trying to get my bearings), I think it would be very useful to break up the guide for the city into neighborhoods. I could certainly write a Hyde Park article--should I? Or would I be going against some aspect of the geographic hierarchy policy? --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 16:18, 9 March 2007 (EST)

 * I agree it's time to start thinking about breaking this up into districts - there's a lot of info on this article and it's too long. In terms of breaking up the article into districts, check out this info, but generally it's best to wait a bit until there's some consensus on what areas to split the city up into. -- -- (WT-en) Tim (writeme!) 14:39, 29 April 2007 (EDT)

Here's a sort of first draft of a map of Chicago's neighborhoods—I'm definitely not wedded to these particular neighborhoods as a scheme for Wikivoyage, but it should help us think about how to do this. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 17:51, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

This is really cool, Peter - great work! That makes the task a lot easier. Speaking from nowhere other than off the top of my head, I'd push Logan Square over to the West Side, to group it with Wicker Park, Ukrainian Village, and maybe Humboldt Park. (Dunno if the West Side and the West-West Side should be split, but they're definitely of a different character.) Then move Uptown into North Side to take its place. I wonder if we might absorb Irving Park into North or Far North and merge the rest of Northwest in with the leftover West-West...? (Or not. I don't know that part of the city very well.) Anyway, there's some rambling to keep the ball rolling. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 00:01, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

 * I confess I don't really know anything about Chicago outside of the South Side and the Loop, so I would just as soon take any of your recommendations for the West and North Sides ;) What is the difference in culture for the West and West-West sides? Would each have enough content for a good district article?

 * But surely there are more wikivoyageers who know Chicago! Looking back on my map, I think there are a lot of bottom-level fixes that will need to be made for it to work. Bronzeville and Cottage Grove are distinct neighborhoods that should be on the map (although Cottage Grove is not Chicago's top travel destination). Perhaps Washington Park should be thrown into the Cottage Grove or Hyde Park boundaries? I'm guessing that similar issues abound and I would rather hear about it before going ahead with the districts; gotta find some more Chicagoans... --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 23:44, 20 May 2007 (EDT)

 * Here is a useful site, which has a lot more information on the individual areas than wp. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 02:45, 21 May 2007 (EDT)
 * Another link of use (maybe) for organizations: an alternative, more finely grained neighborhoods map. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 12:35, 22 May 2007 (EDT)

South Side
Ok here's putting my money where my mouth is—I've tried to rationalize and combine some of these areas into more coherent destinations:

 * South Chicago Shore (Hyde Park, Kenwood, Oakland, & Woodlawn) — Old mansions abound, great museums, the University of Chicago, and Jackson Park
 * Bronzeville (Douglas, Grand Boulevard, & Fuller Park) — the historic "Black Metropolis" is a mecca of African-American History
 * Washington Park — home to a large park, the DuSable Museum of African-American History, locations from Richard Wright's Native Son, and the proposed site of the 2016 summer olympics
 * Greater Grand Crossing & South Shore — notable for the historic South Shore Country Club, now restored as a community center
 * Bridgeport (& Armour Square) — home to Chicago's thriving Chinatown, the White Sox, and large working class Irish, Polish, and Lithuanian communities

I'll update the map after thinking this schematic over a while; I still have a few concerns:

The South Chicago Shore area is going to be a rather large one, but most of the sites are in Hyde Park, I would think. I threw Fuller Park into Bronzeville only because I didn't want to keep it by itself, I didn't know where else to put it, and it is a small district with nothing much to see—it shouldn't matter too much. It also might be useful (albeit far from encyclopedic accuracy) to toss Washington Park into Bronzeville as well. Lastly, I would really like to combine South Shore and Greater Grand Crossing, but would need a better name than "South Shore and Greater Grand Crossing." If there is something else we could do with these two neighborhoods, let me know—as far as I know they are fairly uninteresting middle-class residential areas. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 02:38, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

Far Southeast Side

 * Greater Chatham (Chatham, Avalon Park, Calumet Heights, Burnside) — a residential stronghold of middle class African American Chicagoans
 * Greater Pullman (Pullman, Roseland, West Pullman, Riverdale) — home to the historic Pullman District, important to American history for its early planned industrial/railroad community and subsequent strikes and socialist radicalism
 * Southeast Shore (South Chicago, South Deering, East Side, Hegewisch) — The once prosperous industrial region around the mouth of the Calumet River ("The Port of Chicago") that imploded along with Chicago's steel industry

I feel more confident with this section because I know it less ;) and because it is not a major destination aside from the Pullman District. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 18:48, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

Far Southwest Side

 * Irish Chicago (Beverly, Mount Greenwood, Morgan Park) — home to a large Irish-American community, a huge St Patrick's Day Parade, a ton of Irish pubs, and even a replica Irish castle
 * ?Leftover? (Auburn-Gresham, Ashburn, Washington Heights) — a large, predominantly African American, residential neighborhood

Hard to come up with good names for these two: "Irish Chicago" is something I just made up, and ?Leftover? speaks for itself. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 01:46, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Southwest Side

 * Marquette Park (Chicago Lawn, Gage Park) — formerly home to a large Lithuanian community, African Americans moved in following Martin Luther King Jr's open housing march, which met violent race riots
 * The old stockyards (McKinley Park, New City) — the site of Upton Sinclair's The Jungle now has a large Mexican population
 * Englewood (West Englewood & Englewood) — a poor, dangerous area; not a tourist destination
 * Midway Area (Brighton Park, Garfield Ridge, Clearing, Archer Heights, West Elsdon, West Lawn) — the area surrounding Midway Airport is ethnically diverse, home to large Polish and Mexican communities

Not as satisfied with this section. Aside from the "Midway Area," I think these districts are too small, but I can't think of any good way to combine them. Perhaps it might be better to just limit the Southwest, Far Southeast, and Far Southwest Sides to a single article each, with an explanation of the relevant differences between neighborhoods? These regions just don't have as much to see as South Chicago or Central Chicago. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 23:52, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

West Side

 * Far West Side (Austin, Humboldt Park, East & West Garfield Park, and North & South Lawndale) — famous mostly for being impoverished and crime-ridden, the Far West Side is also home to the United Center for Basketball and fabulous parks
 * West Town — Wicker Park, Ukrainian Village, Bucktown. Hipsters mix with Polish, Mexican, and Puerto Rican immigrants
 * Near West Side — Little Italy, Greektown, the West Loop, University of Illinois at Chicago
 * Lower West Side — Ethnic enclaves such as the Mexican Pilsen & Little Village, Polish Pilsen, Italian little Italy
 * Logan Square — A historic neighborhood with a large latino community and a rising number of "progressive" young professionals

I was a bit hasty with these, but I think they basically make sense. I would, however, like to explicitly break Little Village out of South Lawndale, and incorporate it into the Lower West Side to group it with Pilsen. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 23:52, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Central Chicago

 * The Loop — the historic and business center of Chicago, the financial center of the midwest, and home to magnificent architecture and outdoor art
 * Near North — a ritzy shopping district, home to the Magnificent Mile, Streeterville, and the Gold Coast
 * Near South — Printer's Row, Museum Campus, McCormick Place, and Soldier Field

These ones are straightforward, but the descriptions could probably use tightening up. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 23:52, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

Northwest Side
I think the Northwest Side is, for the most part, a non-destination and can be broken up and combined into the neighboring districts. I would put Montclare, Belmont Cragin, and Hermosa into the Far West Side; Dunning and Portage Park into the Far North Side; and Irving Park into the North Side (as per Gorilla Jones' suggestion). --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 15:42, 30 May 2007 (EDT)

North Side

 * Irving Park (and North Center) — historic homes, fun bars and restaurants, younger crowd, and gentrifying.
 * Avondale — Polish Village (Jackovo and Wacławowo)
 * Lakeview — North Halsted and Wrigleyville, the Four Corners of baseball, punk rock, yuppie, and gay culture
 * Lincoln Park — a wealthy neighborhood with museums, the Lincoln Park Zoo, and DePaul University, and Old Town, a striking collision of rich and poor, and a few relics of an edgier time (like Second City)
 * Uptown — home to numerous "Gangsters of Chicago" tours and its jazz mecca entertainment district

I merged North Center into Irving Park for the heck of it. This section could use review since the North Side is so important and I know next to nothing about it. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 16:57, 30 May 2007 (EDT)

 * I don't know Avondale, but there's plenty I don't know. Andersonville should go here or in the Far North - probably better here. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 18:30, 30 May 2007 (EDT)

 * I'll add a note about Andersonville in the Edgewater/Rogers Park section, which I think should stay in the Far North, just because it is so far north to a South Chicago guy like me ;) --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 18:38, 30 May 2007 (EDT)

Far North Side

 * Rogers Park and Edgewater (& West Ridge) — thriving multi-ethnic communities, beaches, large gay community, Loyola University, Swedish Andersonville, and the totally Indian Devon Avenue
 * Lincoln Square — named for Abraham Lincoln, a diverse neighborhood with a distinct German flavor
 * Albany Park & North Park — one of the most diverse immigrant communities in the US, retains its "Koreatown"
 * Far Northwest Side (Forest Glen, Jefferson Park, Norwood Park, Edison Park, O'Hare, Dunning, and Portage Park) — aflluent suburban neighborhoods with nice parks, large Polish communities, and some big annual festivals

Feeling pretty confident with these breakdowns. It would be nice to combine Albany Park & North Park under a better name, however. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 18:06, 30 May 2007 (EDT)

 * I assume you mean Lincoln Square, not Lincoln Park, for this grouping. Otherwise, at a glance, this looks good, and fits the parts of the city that I know (namely, the north side). Sorry I haven't been around to lend more help thus far, but I'll try to help with ye olde plunging forward soon. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 18:27, 30 May 2007 (EDT)

Goals
I'm thinking that so far quite a few of the neighborhoods on the map are actually bedroom communities. Is there much of interest to a traveller on the far south-east side? In my (hasty) grouping I was trying to find a way to lump things together to come up with pages which would probably have a decent balance per section, like understand, do, see, eat, sleep et all. Sleep is probably the hardest to balance, understand is probably the easiest (every neighborhood has a story).

Anyhow the idea here is to produce a set of pages with around 30kb of text (my number) and at least three listings in each category and each price range (maybe barring sleep). -- (WT-en) Mark 08:47, 25 May 2007 (EDT)

 * A lot of the neighborhoods on the map are too small and would not have enough information, which is why I have been trying to combine them into larger districts. The Far Southeast Side has much less to offer a visitor than the Loop, but I think we can just indicate that on the main Chicago article in the one-line blurbs for each district. My idea of where Wikivoyage should go with its city guides diverges a bit from traditional guides because I think it has the potential to really cover the whole city, rather than just the most famous (and interesting) areas. While a bit different from our current district practice, I think it is much more in line with our general Project:Geographical hierarchy policy and our general practice of covering any destination where you can sleep.

 * As urban neighborhoods, and large ones at that, I am confident that a district including all of Pullman, Roseland, West Pullman, and Riverdale would have more than enough to warrant an article. The greater Chatham area is not of interest for most of the tourists who visit Chicago, but it is of interest to some visitors (like me), who are interested in the culture and history of South Chicago. I guess, at least, I see no downsides to creating a comprehensive hierarchy, provided we do a good job of indicating where the major destinations are on the top-level pages. And there is the added benefit that it will become very clear where contributors can stick information. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 13:26, 25 May 2007 (EDT)

 * Well, probably the only way to find out how best to balance the articles is to just plunge forward and find out experimentally. We can always change the hierarchy as we go along.

 * I do have to say though that one of the reasons for the hierarchy I've proposed is that it pretty much makes sure that there's a sleep section in each district. I could be wrong of course, and I overlooked a couple of important neighborhoods, like Logan Square and Lincoln Square. -- (WT-en) Mark 19:33, 28 May 2007 (EDT)

 * I think you have pretty much captured how I feel about this. I'm just trying to figure out how best to organize all potential Chicago content, and I think it will be easy to adjust when I get it wrong ;) I'm sure that a sleep section with at least three entries will be possible for all the districts I have come up with so far, although the vast majority of travelers will of course stay in Central Chicago. As I go through and sort out these neighborhoods into districts, I would sure appreciate your input! --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 01:10, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

 * This map was criticized in . Alanscottwalker (talk) 19:34, 2 December 2018 (UTC)

Hierarchy Proposal

 * Central Chicago — the center of Chicago, the downtown, and the main attraction for 90% of Chicago's visitors
 * The Loop — the historic and business center of Chicago, the financial center of the midwest, and home to magnificent architecture and outdoor art
 * Near North — a ritzy shopping district, home to the Magnificent Mile, Streeterville, Navy Pier, and the Gold Coast
 * Near South — Printer's Row, Museum Campus, McCormick Place, and Soldier Field

 * North Side — affluent and interesting, plenty to see
 * Irving Park (and North Center) — historic homes, fun bars and restaurants, younger crowd, and gentrifying.
 * Avondale — Polish Village (Jackovo and Wacławowo)
 * Lakeview — North Halsted and Wrigleyville, the Four Corners of baseball, punk rock, yuppie, and gay culture
 * Lincoln Park — a wealthy neighborhood with museums, the Lincoln Park Zoo, and DePaul University, and Old Town, a striking collision of rich and poor, and a few relics of an edgier time (like Second City)
 * Uptown — home to numerous "Gangsters of Chicago" tours and its jazz mecca entertainment district

 * South Side — the historic Black Metropolis, the University of Chicago, Chinatown, and the White Sox
 * South Chicago Shore (Hyde Park, Kenwood, Oakland, & Woodlawn) — Old mansions abound, great museums, the University of Chicago, and Jackson Park
 * Bronzeville (Douglas, Grand Boulevard, Fuller Park, & Washington Park) — the historic "Black Metropolis" is a mecca of African-American History, historic site of the 1920s Chicago Black Renaissance, and the proposed site of the 2016 summer olympics
 * Bridgeport (& Armour Square) — home to Chicago's thriving Chinatown, the White Sox, and large working class Irish, Polish, and Lithuanian communities

 * West Side — Ethnic enclaves abound and, of course, the Chicago Bulls
 * Far West Side (Austin, Humboldt Park, East & West Garfield Park, North & South Lawndale, Hermosa, Belmont Cragin, and Montclare) — famous mostly for being impoverished and crime-ridden, the Far West Side is also home to the United Center for Basketball and fabulous parks
 * West Town — Wicker Park, Ukrainian Village, Bucktown. Hipsters mix with Polish, Mexican, and Puerto Rican immigrants
 * Near West Side — Little Italy, Greektown, the West Loop, University of Illinois at Chicago
 * Lower West Side — Ethnic enclaves such as the Mexican Pilsen & Little Village, Polish Pilsen, Italian little Italy
 * Logan Square — A historic neighborhood with a large latino community and a rising number of "progressive" young professionals

 * Far North Side — ultra-hip communities, great Indian food, large gay communities, and some of the most diverse immigrant communities in the entire US
 * Rogers Park and Edgewater (& West Ridge) — thriving multi-ethnic communities, beaches, large gay community, Loyola University, Swedish Andersonville, and the totally Indian Devon Avenue
 * Lincoln Square — named for Abraham Lincoln, a diverse neighborhood with a distinct German flavor
 * Albany Park & North Park — one of the most diverse immigrant communities in the US, retains its "Koreatown"
 * Far Northwest Side (Forest Glen, Jefferson Park, Norwood Park, Edison Park, O'Hare, Dunning, and Portage Park) — aflluent suburban neighborhoods with nice parks, large Polish communities, O'Hare Airport, and some big annual festivals

 * Far Southwest Side — home to a large Irish-American community, a huge St Patrick's Day Parade, a ton of Irish pubs, and even a replica Irish castle
 * Irish Chicago (Beverly, Mount Greenwood, Morgan Park)

 * Southwest Side — not a significant tourist attraction, but does have some interest as home to Chicago's "Black Belt," large Mexican neighborhoods, and Midway Airport
 * The old stockyards (McKinley Park, New City) — the site of Upton Sinclair's The Jungle now has a large Mexican population
 * Chicago's Black Belt (Englewood, Marquette Park, Auburn-Gresham, Ashburn, Washington Heights, Greater Grand Crossing) — A huge urban residential area, home to much of Chicago's African American population, with an important Civil Rights history
 * Midway Area (Brighton Park, Garfield Ridge, Clearing, Archer Heights, West Elsdon, West Lawn) — the area surrounding Midway Airport is ethnically diverse, home to large Polish and Mexican communities

 * Far Southeast Side — a large, mostly uninteresting (to travelers) section of Chicago with one large tourist draw: the historic Pullman District
 * Greater Chatham (Chatham, Avalon Park, Calumet Heights, Burnside) — a residential stronghold of middle class African American Chicagoans
 * Greater Pullman (Pullman, Roseland, West Pullman, Riverdale) — home to the historic Pullman District, important to American history for its early planned industrial/railroad community and subsequent strikes and socialist radicalism
 * Southeast Shore (South Shore, South Chicago, South Deering, East Side, Hegewisch) — The once prosperous industrial region around the mouth of the Calumet River ("The Port of Chicago") that imploded along with Chicago's steel industry

 * One important note, I don't actually intend to create articles for each subdivision of the Far Southeast Side; rather I think we could just put the subdivision explanations in the Far Southeast Side article.

OK, here's my proposal for a comprehensive city of Chicago hierarchy. I would like to hear what other contributors think! --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 18:35, 30 May 2007 (EDT)

 * One more nota bene: the boundaries for these areas are actually pretty well defined, but in any rate I do plan to make district street maps. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 19:33, 30 May 2007 (EDT)

 * I like this hierarchy and I'm ready to move on it for the areas I know. The article as it presently stands has some differences - for example, my beloved crime-ridden Rogers Park has some things to recommend it (and I've never yet found a print guide that mentions it), but it can't possibly support a full page of its own. Are we okay to plunge? (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 20:20, 12 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Yup, I just moved this discussion here because I think it has fermented long enough. I'm starting on Central Chicago tonight, then heading south before heading north. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:26, 12 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Word is bond. I'll head north. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 21:56, 12 June 2007 (EDT)

District summaries
As Peter noted elsewhere, the current district descriptions on the Chicago page are rather long. I just cut and pasted what we'd been discussing here to start, but we should trim those descriptions down to essentials as we move along. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 14:18, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Looks good...I'd add the names (only) of the most famous neighborhoods within the districts, but that's a good set-up. I wonder, though, if having the table within the map right next to the nearly identical table in the article is jarring to anyone else, design-wise...? If that's the design we go with, we could chop the table off the map-image for what's shown on the main article page, and then include a link somewhere to a printable version of the map with the table included. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 19:41, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Peter is a mythical creature. This much is apparent. What do you think about including a link to the original version of the map, with the table? Useful for printing purposes, or redundant? (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 23:50, 13 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Hmm, a table-versioned map might be useful. For some reason, though, uploading files on shared gives me a mythical headache. The svg file still has the table, although that isn't very user-friendly. On the other hand, the names are "west," "north," "southwest," etc., people should be able to sort out their printouts I think. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:25, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

Far South
Do you see the Far Southwest Side and Far Southeast Side as eventually having enough to warrant separate articles? Both descriptions refer to them as not significant tourist attractions. Are they simply too big / too distinct? I don't know that part of the city at all - only ever been to Midway a couple of times. Would it be disharmonious to combine them into a Far South Side, mirroring the Far North Side? (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 00:12, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Ah but the trick is that the Far Southwest Side actually has a lot to offer. You are confusing it with the Southwest Side, which yes, does not have a lot to offer. We could maybe merge the Far Southeast with the Southwest and call it the Black Hole District? I don't know, but my hunch is that I'll be able to fill out those articles pretty well, although it will take me a while at the rate I'm going. I've got to go through my South Side first! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:25, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Ah, my mistake. Well, if you're confident you can fill those articles, then go for it. I've meant to go to Pullman for ages, so maybe this will be the spur. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 10:25, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

Far North/Far Northwest
I've been slowly trying to wrangle the north side. (No internet at home right now.) While harvesting listings from the main article, I realized that we don't have anywhere good to put O'Hare-area hotel or restaurant listings. That whole part of town is too far from the areas along the lake that are served by the Far North Side article - it doesn't make sense for a traveler to have to go digging through Rogers Park listings to get the O'Hare hotel he or she wants. So I wonder if it might be better to mirror the south side to some extent and give the Far Northwest Side its own district, which could also serve as O'Hare central. (Note that many airports, like Kansai Airport in Osaka, have their own articles.)

I've also been mulling grabbing Uptown from the North Side for the Far North, since it's closer in character to RP/Edgewater than it is to Lakeview/Lincoln Park, and the latter two have a ton of listings of their own. Thoughts? (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 23:04, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

 * I'd support both changes. I only put Uptown in the North Side per your earlier suggestion ;) And ultimately, my hope is that we can create a good district article for each of the outlined regions of the second map on this page (although it remains to be seen whether that's possible, especially for the southwest side IMO)—so yeah I'd definitely like to see a Far Northwest district article. But are you suggesting that we give it a different color on the map as well, i.e., de-group it from the rest of the Far North? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:40, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Yes, please de-group it on the map, and cover Uptown in red, unless anyone (Mark?) objects. That link will be helpful - I'm only just arrived back in town after four years away, so I'm still re-acquiring a handle on boundaries. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 23:36, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Also, here is an aid in figuring out hard boundaries. This site will show the street/railroad/water boundaries of any community area in Chicago—I've found it very useful. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:22, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

Get Out
I liked how Gorilla added a get out section to Chicago/Bronzeville—I think that's really useful information for districts and I'd like to do that for all of them really. I wonder whether all districts shouldn't have such a section... Hmm off to the pub. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:40, 17 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Yeah, I think it's useful for the Get Out section to draw visitors' attention to other areas in the city that also fulfill a similar interest. Visitors who go to the Far North to sample the Indian or Southeast Asian food might well be interested in going to Chinatown, even though it's on the other side of the city.

 * I've wondered if Wikipedia-style bottom infoboxes might be useful for big articles like these - e.g. a box entitled Districts of Chicago and then with hyperlinks to the various district articles in a line below it, so visitors can jump back and forth between them. Once someone's reading the Bronzeville article, they're two levels removed from the big picture of Chicago. (The Wikipedia example is butt-ugly, but you get my drift, conceptually.) (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 23:44, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Hmm, I definitely like the template idea, although I think it would take a fair amount of work (or vision) to get it right. As it stands, I think the one big flaw with our little districts project is that navigation is only going to work well for people who know the city fairly well. The biggest problem is that readers will see the links to sub-district pages like Chicago/Bronzeville, but we have no real explanation of what the district means from a travel perspective. I see two (bad) options for dealing with this:

 * 1. Use a hierarchic format for the city, e.g., first direct from Chicago to South Side, and from there to the sub districts. The top-level district page would act much like the Chicago article itself—it would give an overview of the whole area, link to and explain sub districts, and contain general information about how "sleep," "eat," etc. differ in this district from the city as a whole. The big downsides to this approach are that it will take a lot of work to actually make these pages and they seem pretty dispensable anyway. I could write great understand and eat sections (maybe even sleep now that I think of it) for Chicago/South Side, but some sections (e.g., worthless contact section) would probably be unfillable.

 * 2. Move sub district descriptions back onto the main Chicago article. We would resolve the difficulty for Chicago neophytes in navigating to particular districts of interest. But listing 25 sub regions on one page is a Wikivoyage:Big no no since that is visually overwhelming, even if we group the sub regions by top-level region (as we did initially).

 * So of the two options I can think of, I would prefer the first—especially now that I've been writing this I actually have an idea in my head of how a Chicago/South Side article would look. I like the template thought and would be quite happy to hear other suggestions of how to solve the navigation problem. Maybe I'll try and cobble together a general South Side article tonight and we can see how that works out? That would allow me to put off the Chicago/Bridgeport-Chinatown map that I had half done until Inkscape crashed on me :( --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:23, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

 * I think the three South Side sub-district articles are superb and should buck for Star status in the near future, but unless somebody else has plans to do them, I don't see sub-district articles coming for the north side or the west side any time soon. I'd rather see general South Side Understand and Eat info added to the main article - the Understand section is sorely deficient and the Eat section is useless, save for the pizza and hot dogs. We have a lot of content, but not a problematic surplus. Let's wait until the article is bursting again before we sub-divide even further. I'm leery of dispersing Chicago content over too many articles, because I can't see the average traveler wanting to chase it all down.

 * Travelers looking at a Bronzeville article can find out that they're on the South Side if we add the words "South Side" to the introduction — much easier than forcing them to go through the hoop of a new South Side page to get there. And they've also got the handy Chicago map, which shows Bronzeville on the south side, and shows what's next to it, where it stands relative to the Loop, etc. What else do they need to know? I guess you could make a small version of the Chicago map with other areas outlined but colored in grey and the sub-district in red, and put that on the sub-district page. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 16:54, 21 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Hey thanks for the nod to my pizza and hot dog odes! Back to the Bronzeville example, my navigation worry is not about the travelers looking at Bronzeville, but rather the travelers who should be looking for it. From the districts section on the main article, all a traveler knows is that Bronzeville is in the South Side. What I would prefer is that anyone who happens to have a strong interest in African-American history would immediately recognize that Bronzeville is the place to go, but we lack a blurb for that article from the main page--a reader would have to see "Black Metropolis," guess what that means, and then check out each of the South Side articles to figure out which one we are referring to. But maybe I am making too big a deal out of this and we could tighten up both the district blurbs and the Chicago article overall.

 * As for the sub-districts on the north and west side, rest assured I do plan to make those in a similar fashion to what I did with the South Side. I personally find large district articles (like the entire West Side) kind of hard to use and when I come back to Chicago I intend to use these articles to hit the Chicago streets in a big way. But I could burn out, we'll see ;) I also don't think the average traveler is going to want to go through all our district articles, but I think he/she shouldn't—the average traveler to Chicago should just skim through the main article and then print out one or two Central District articles, since that is probably all they will need. But for a traveler who is going to the Green Mill, an Uptown article is just going to be a good deal more useful than an article for the entire Far North in pointing out where to eat beforehand. At least that's how I feel, and if people aren't a fan of having such a finely grained district structure, we can always just keep new district articles in my sandbox for me to use!

 * On another note entirely, I like your Talk:Chicago. I'm a little shy about editing top level regions like Chicago because I feel like I know a lot about certain parts of the city, but don't have anything to say about the place as a whole. Since you have a pretty good handle on what the article needs, could you flesh out that list a bit with more specific information requests (e.g., need information about hot dogs)?  --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:05, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

 * I have no objections to sub-district articles for the rest of the city as long as they're as well done as the ones you've done so far. I just don't want to have, say, a Lincoln Park article with two semi-formatted bars, an info-less mention of DePaul, and one line saying that there are a lot of trendy boutiques there. That's the point at which things are too dispersed to be useful for travelers. I do agree that the West Side is too amorphous as a whole. I could do a pretty good article on Wicker Park, Ukrainian Village, and Logan Square, and Pilsen/Greektown/Little Italy would be easy too, but that would strand the Far West Side - I haven't the foggiest idea what a traveler should do there. Unless someone else knows, that article would be a permanent outline.

 * I understand what you mean about directing a reader to Bronzeville. But we have two ways to address that in the main article: the 'Understand' section, with that list of neighborhoods at the end, and the 'African-American History' section under 'See' are both places to direct visitors to relevant places like Bronzeville. (Hell, we could even have something in the main article's introduction.) And the advantage of doing it on the main page instead of a South Side page would be that you could draw together elements of African-American History from the Far West Side and other parts of the city as well.

 * On that subject - and the To Do list - I'm not qualified to write an African-American History section, so if you could put something together for the main article's 'See' section, that would be great. I could make a stab at Jazz & Blues, but it wouldn't be very good, so if that's something you're comfortable with, go for it. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 14:57, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Yeah, I retract my navigation worries—you are doing really great work with the main article and I think my concerns will be allayed by just keeping the main article sections well linked to the appropriate district pages. We should poach most of the Jazz and Blues info from The Jazz Track which has unbelievably good info on Chicago's jazz legacy. And don't worry about that Far West Side article—I thrive off the beaten path and actually am looking forward to writing a "star" guide to such a forlorn section of the city! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:21, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

Districts order
We've been listing the districts on the main page basically by order of importance. That's a rather dangerous practice on a wiki, but I think it's still worth doing. I don't think, however, that we've got the order quite right. How does this strike people:

 * Downtown
 * North Side
 * South Side
 * West Side
 * Far North Side
 * Far Southeast Side
 * Southwest Side
 * Far Southwest Side
 * Far Northwest Side

I moved the North Side above the South because I would guess it sees a lot more visitors. Far Southeast above Southwest because the former does have a major tourist attraction, while the latter gets more visitors only because of Midway. And I'm not sure about the order of the last two. My feeling is that the Far Southwest has more of tourist interest, mainly because of the parade, but that is only one day of the year while the Far Northwest does have a ton of visitors via O'Hare. Thoughts? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:58, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

 * I'd be curious to hear someone else's opinion, but that order is fine by me. The Far Northwest is at the bottom of the list because it was the last full district to get broken off, and fond as I am of the parts I know, what lies there is a mystery to most north siders (let alone south siders and tourists). My feeling is that 99.87% of people who come and go through O'Hare have no contact with any part of the Far Northwest, so that needn't count in its favor if we're measuring by visitor count. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 22:38, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

 * 99.87% indeed. OK, I've changed the order as per above for now, but I'm still certainly open to changing it if others chime in. I also changed the link formats so that they are standard in linking neighborhoods, not districts. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:29, 12 September 2007 (EDT)

Further Districts Discussion
The vast majority of districts discussion for Chicago is archived at Talk:Chicago/Districts discussion

Should/could there be a separate article for Boystown/North Halsted? While the area is included in the Lakeview-North Center guide, this article would include things that interest a specific group of people. --(WT-en) Locano 22:05, 12 November 2007 (EST)

 * My inclination would be to wait for more content before subdividing the Chicago/Lakeview-North Center article. Ideally, district articles will have a nice spread of listings between the various categories. I'm not sure a Boystown article would muster any see listings, and possibly sleep listings as well. But I'm sure we could use more content in this area—surely there must be more gay bars worthy of note. I'm North Side-illiterate—is this something you could help with? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:25, 12 November 2007 (EST)

 * Yes, Boystown/North Halsted is currently a weakness of this guide, and it should be a strength - please contribute any good places you know. I definitely plan to focus on Boystown some time soon. For now, though, I think it's best included within the Lakeview article for the reasons Peter mentioned - while important, it's a small area geographically, and a very short walk from Wrigley. Within 'Drink' (nightlife) and 'Buy', we can add separate sections for Boystown listings, and that will help that specific group of people find what they're looking for. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 01:12, 13 November 2007 (EST)

 * Ah yes, it hadn't really occurred to me that a Boystown article wouldn't really be able to fill all of the categories of the page. I'm afraid my knowledge of this area is fairly limited too, as I've only been there briefly.  The main reason I bring Boystown up at all was my disappointment in any available information.  I'll add the places I do remember, and hopefully others will follow. --(WT-en) Locano 22:59, 17 November 2007 (EST)

Downtown
Any objections to renaming the "Central Chicago" district grouping to "Downtown"? I think that would get the point across more directly. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:36, 24 August 2007 (EDT)
 * No objections. I don't think I've ever heard someone refer to "Central Chicago". (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 19:26, 24 August 2007 (EDT)

Reorganizing the South Side

I feel a little crazy suggesting this, since it's a lot of work, and a ton of work has already been done on the existing districts. But I am a lot more familiar with these areas than I was when we first drafted districts for the South Side. A certain nagging has been on my mind for some while, and I have a very solid idea for how to reorganize some of the districts (basically those around Chatham). I don't particularly want to do the work to make this happen, but I bet I'll be able to summon it up at some point (the next WTP update could be a nice deadline-impetus).

Anyway, the map to the right shows what I want to do. Split Woodlawn off from South Chicago Shore, rename South Chicago Shore to a more simple Hyde Park (since the president has made that name far more famous than it ever was before). Split off Greater Grand from the Southwest Side, then split Chatham, Avalon Park, and South Shore from the Far Southeast Side and combine all 5 of these into one new district. This would be a very coherent district in terms of what a visitor would want to do, it's also got a lot of really incredible places to eat, drink, and hear some live music in the western parts of the district—honestly some of the best in the city. (Not too safe, though.)

The big question would be what to call it. Everyone who lives thereabouts just refers to it as "South Side," but that conflicts with our guide's basic hierarchy. "Chatham-Woodlawn-South Shore" would sum it up, but that's a crappy name. "Heart of the South Side," "Fantastic BBQ-land," "the Real South Side?" I have no clue. Really the best I can come up with is Chatham-South Shore, since people don't often refer to Greater Grand by name, Avalon Park usually considers itself part of Chatham, and Woodlawn doesn't have much going on. Toss in Calumet Heights and South Chicago for good measure.

Then again, forget including Woodlawn in this altogether, some of the university is in Woodlawn, and condominium owners have been starting to invade. It's odd to include Woodlawn in a district called "Hyde Park," since, unlike Kenwood, it has very little in common with its northern neighbor. But I still think this is the best solution.

Lastly, I'm thinking of doing away with the Midway Area article and merging that content wholly into the otherwise reduced Southwest Side. I'd solicit comments from contributors other than Marc, but I realize that there are not a ton of South Side Chicagoans working on Wikivoyage ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:53, 3 March 2009 (EST)

 * Not quite finished, especially the maps (it's a pain to combine these mother truckers...), but these three articles are basically what I have in mind: User:(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald/Southwest Side, User:(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald/Chatham-South Shore, User:(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald/Far Southeast Side. The Far Southeast is much reduced, but that's actually quite useful; the inner city Chatham-South Shore area really has very little in common with the rest of the rural/industrial Far Southeast Side. It leaves the far southeast side a little short on listings, but I have at least two up my sleeve to beef it up a bit. The merged Southwest Side (minus Greater Grand) comes out pretty well, I think. Not too large, and it mostly fits together well. I still need to write the get in section for Chatham-South Shore, but I think it should be obvious from that article why I wanted to do this redistricting—putting those neighborhoods together just makes sense. Thoughts? Feel free to invade my userspace to proofread these, if you're reading over them. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 06:36, 5 March 2009 (EST)

 * This new organization "feels" right — nice work. (Of course, I've spent only slightly more time in that part of the city than I have in Timbuktu.) I like the Chatham-South Shore name, relative to the other options. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 21:09, 6 March 2009 (EST)

Oakland to Bronzeville
A very minor change I'd like to make—cut off the top portion (everything 43rd St and north) of the "Hyde Park" district and put it into the Bronzeville article. There is finally a good listing for that neighborhood now that CheckerJazz has moved out of HP and north to Room 43 (formerly only a private event space). HP already has a ton of listings, Bronzeville is a little short, and Oakland could fit nicely into either article in terms of geography & culture. The maps will actually be quite easy to change too. Objections? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:24, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

 * None here. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 19:30, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

Belmont & Central
We have split the Polish mecca of the North Side inconveniently across the Far West Side and Far Northwest Side articles. This has bugged me for a long while, and would like to move Belmont-Cragin, Hermosa, and Montclare up to the Far Northwest Side article. With the Belmont Central neighborhood often pushed as an OtBP destination in Chicago (just saw this again in Time Magazine), it would be nice to rationalize our coverage of the area. Lets unite Jedynka and Lutnia. Thoughts? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:57, 25 September 2010 (EDT)

 * Sounds good to me. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 13:43, 26 September 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Chicago/Districts discussion


text:
Talk:Chicago/Far Northwest Side

Dropped listing
Can't reach this place by phone and couldn't find it while driving around. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 15:59, 11 November 2007 (EST)

From the outside, it looks like a still-functioning business, but they're never open during the store hours claimed on their door and they never answer their phone, so I'm putting this here until I hear otherwise (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 13:11, 12 November 2007 (EST)

More closures. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 20:58, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

Another: --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:53, 10 April 2012 (EDT)

Closed: (WT-en) Eco84 04:03, 13 July 2012 (EDT)

Another closure. The same owners reportedly operate Tanos (3038 W Iring Park Rd) just down the street from the former Manzo's: (WT-en) Eco84 04:24, 13 July 2012 (EDT)

Seems a new bar, OK Pub, opened in the same location. Gorilla Jones (talk) 01:42, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

New library
Beginning construction in November 2010: Dunning, which replaces the West Addison branch. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 15:00, 26 September 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Chicago/Far Northwest Side


text:
Talk:Chicago/Far Southeast Side

Hotels
I've tried calling this one a few times - usually no answer, but this last time it went to a private residence, so I'm officially giving up on it. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 17:52, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

 * I need to get pricing for this place, but before I forget:

Closed listings
Bah, this is the Far Southeast Side buy listing to end all Far Southeast Side buy listings, but they're currently closed (only have an online presence). Hopefully they'll be back in the near future.

I'll salvage this one too—someone's bound to open it again, since it would be the only bar in the area.

--(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:14, 8 April 2009 (EDT)

 * I hate closed listings in this part of town. Old places close, but new ones don't open up... I suppose there are probably more extremely OtBP eat places in East Side that I haven't found. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:43, 2 October 2010 (EDT)

Huh, I guess the Salvadoran community left East Side—all three of the pupuserías that I knew of are gone:

--Peter Talk 19:27, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

"Pullman hell" quotation
I was just involved in a brief dispute on Wikipedia about the "Pullman hell" quotation. Someone had added the "Pullman cemetery" clause but the source I found (The Pullman State Historic Site) did not include it. I see the cemetery part here too, though, so now I'm not sure.

I found a Google Books result that includes the cemetery clause, but the author does not cite a source. In fact, most of the top Google Books results include the phrase (including one that uses "graves" and deviates from the standard wording for the other clauses as well)—but one would think the State Historic Site would be authoritative. One of them does provide a source, but it's another book, The Bending Cross, that I can't read online (written 1989).

So after all that, it's probably harmless enough either way we quote it, although I'll probably bring this research over to Wikipedia and see what they think about it.

-- (WT-en) LtPowers 22:49, 3 July 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Chicago/Far Southeast Side


text:
Talk:Chicago/Far Southwest Side

Closed? listings

 * A tasty family diner serving southern/soul food.

Here's a strange case. I can't reach them by phone—not because I get a "disconnected" message, but rather because my cell is incapable of making the call, only for this one phone number. So I go over to check it out, and there's a big "open" sign next to a "for sale" sign. All very ambiguous, but it was closed when it should have been open, so I'll leave it here rather than in the article. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:58, 28 June 2008 (EDT)

 * And that serves me right for leaping to (natural) conclusions! It looks to be confirmed open as of Sep 2010. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:43, 1 October 2010 (EDT)

Closed international events that were the only things that made Beverly a neighborhood worth knowing

 * This parade is a good deal larger and more energetic than the comparably staid celebration downtown the day prior. It started in 1979, almost spontaneously, after Mayor Daley had moved the original parade to the Loop. Remember that Beverly is a dry town east of Western Ave, whereas the western side of the avenue is lined with pubs. Accordingly, the east side of the parade is much more family-friendly than the somewhat rowdy west. Parking is easiest to the west of the parade and the churches to the east often provide refuge to those who came for the parade, but found the March weather too cold. While the parade itself starts at noon, festivities kick off at 8:30AM at St Cajetan Church (112th St & Artesian), with a performance of Irish songs and music, followed by mass. If you care to start even earlier, the pubs will be packed on Saturday night for "pre-parties."

Forgot to move this one out of the article. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:57, 14 April 2009 (EDT)

Closed listings

 * You can buy just about anything related to Ireland here, from Waterford crystal, to Belleek China, from Shamrock studded sweaters to maps of Limerick.

I hate it when interesting places close, but I haven't yet found a number that isn't disconnected or giving me fax noises, and the website is down. Presumed dead. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:51, 20 October 2009 (EDT)

 * This gallery sells fine art from all over the world and specializes in Celtic art by Courtney Davis.

Another neat Irish shop bites the dust, courtesy of the Great Recession. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:14, 26 September 2010 (EDT)

 * A community-oriented Irish pub that serves corned beef and cabbage if you are feeling in an Irish mood.

 * Grich has a lot of antiques and a wide selection on offer. Come prepared to bargain.

I'm not sure about Grich, actually. The internets are silent; some lady's voice mail popped up when I called, and Mr Grich is not some lady, so... I'm going to leave this one out until I can confirm that it is indeed open. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:46, 2 October 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Chicago/Far Southwest Side


text:
Talk:Chicago/Far West Side

Closed? listing

 * This art gallery is clearly taking advantage of the low rents in Humboldt Park. In addition to its contemporary installations, it has a rather impressive permanent collection of late 20th century art, including works by Rauschenburg, Warhol, Mapplethorpe, and Makos.

I moved this here, since the contact information has failed to elicit any courtesy response to let me know whether they are still running this operation. If someone can find out otherwise, and can fill out the hours information, please put it back in the article, but under "see," not "buy." --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:18, 30 November 2007 (EST)

 * Yeah, I tried calling them again today and the number is disconnected. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 19:06, 30 November 2007 (EST)

Stay safe?
Seems like a Stay safe section might be warranted here, even if say the area's dangerous reputation is overblown. (And I've never been, so I don't know if it is.) (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 19:08, 30 November 2007 (EST)
 * Done. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:15, 30 November 2007 (EST)
 * Nicely so. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 14:44, 1 December 2007 (EST)
 * Egads! "Stay safe" section on Austin and South Lawndale are way off! South Lawndale is going through some major challenges right now and crime there is comparable to North Lawndale. In others words, there's a ton of crime there. More to see than North Lawndale for sure, but lots of problems. Meanwhile Austin is one of the most crime-ridden neighborhoods in the city. The last few months in particular there has been a teriffic spike in violent crime. I wouldn't go anywhere in Austin on foot. Don't have time to update this at the moment...(WT-en) Meatpuff 06:04, 3 February 2009 (EST)

 * Might I ask where you are getting your information? I'm going off a little bit of personal experience, but mostly year-end police statistics over the past three years. South Lawndale, per police statistics, is one of the safest community areas in the city in terms of violent crime, and personally, I've never so much as felt nervous there. Austin is more complex because of its size, and I have less of a handle on it (since there's not much reason to go there). If there's been a spike in crime there recently, could you lend a source? I have no claims to be an expert, but I would presume that year-end police reports of violent crime/100,000 residents would be a pretty good objective measure (outside downtown, anyway). --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:08, 3 February 2009 (EST)

 * Year-end police reports are a good start but quite misleading because the community area-level is a pretty coarse measurement. There's a lot of variation and some parts are block-by-block. Maybe the best example in the city right now is Logan Square. The crime statistics mean little here, whatever they are. You are quite safe walking around in Bucktown, but west of Kimball it is straight-up ghetto. Also, I don't think crime stats before last year are going to help much because things change so quickly.

 * I definitely overstated the case in South Lawndale. It is not half as bad as North Lawndale, but that doesn't mean it's real good. Just read the news. There is definitely strong gang/drug activity over there with the accompanying drug busts and shootings. As far as stats, West Town and South Lawndale have comparable populations but there were 15 homicides and 290 robberies in South Lawndale in the last 365 days compared to 4 and 122 in West Town (which has its own pretty rough areas west of Western). So caveats should be added to the article so people don't assume that South Lawndale is Wicker Park or something. I would feel safe walking down the main drag in Little Village during the day, but it's no place I'd walk around in the evening or down the side streets.

 * As for Austin, there's no question it's straight-up ghetto. It's so enormous that no doubt some parts are fine, but as a whole it's a real pit. Particularly the areas near Oak Park that a visitor would be most likely to wander into. I will leave it to you to look up your own year-end crime stats. But also there is a wave of violent crime there the last few months that is showing up in the stats as well as the news (http://wednesdayjournalonline.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=12&ArticleID=13496&TM=1845.47). I am unequivocal about Austin. It is one of the more dangerous ghettos in Chicago, has persistent violent crime, and is headed in the wrong direction currently. This is probably the most interesting thing for a potential visitor to know about Austin since there's little to see there, so it should be in the article. (WT-en) Meatpuff 00:47, 4 February 2009 (EST)

 * Hmm. I'm definitely not adverse to adding more strictly cautionary statements about Austin, especially since there's so little reason to go there unless you're visiting family. Anyway, I'll try and work that in. I should also make a point of heading out there and getting to know the neighborhood a little better—one of my last frontiers in Chicago really!

 * But I think we're just not seeing eye to eye on South Lawndale. Basically everything that's recommended in the area is just on the 26th St strip, and if anything, I think we should be working to correct the commonly held perception that the area is unsafe. In addition to really low violent crime statistics (in the past 3 years anyway), I'm on 26th eating tacos at 3AM often, and the most uncomfortable I've ever felt was when dealing with some demasiado rapido Spanish through a scratchy drive-thru speaker. Ultimately, few travelers are going to visit the area without a car, and therefore won't spend a ton of time walking around, but I really don't think we need to warn people about walking around 26th St, even at night. I think part of the reason people have this perception of Little Village is because of the high profile drug crime reports, but everyday street muggings are really what travelers have to worry about, and for a Chicago neighborhood, those are quite low here (unlike some really touristy areas, like the Loop).

 * On a totally unrelated topic, are you from Oak Park? If so, mind filling out that article a bit? I still haven't gotten around to taking a tour of the place, and have been waiting for someone to add some content to that article so I can have a free guide ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 03:06, 4 February 2009 (EST)

 * Yeah, after further thought and reading I think your view of South Lawndale is accurate and was better than mine coming in. I think I am in the habit of evaluating an area as a place to live, which means it has to be reasonably safe walking the residential streets in the early evenings. But the standards for visiting are just that the areas that visitors would check out are safe. South Lawndale would not be safe enough for me to agree to live there. But visitors would probably just stay on 26th St., which I agree is fine into the evening.

 * I'm glad you agree about Austin, I'm confident that if you ask others who know the area AND read the statistics you will see that it is a pretty dangerous place.

 * I re-read the stay safe section, and I would write something much different, but it is mostly a matter of style. For example, you say the Humboldt Park neighborhood is generally safe, but I would say that it is generally quite unsafe. We can both agree that the eastern several blocks are safe, but the rest of that neighborhood is in bad shape. As for South Lawndale, my version of "Stay Safe" would include the areas to stick to (east of Humboldt Park or 26th St. strip) and make clear that the rest of the neighborhood is a different story. This would signal to the reader that these neighborhoods are different from a place like Lincoln Park where spending the day aimlessly wandering around is safe and a fine idea.

 * Maybe next week I'll just write a different version and see what you think.

 * Sorry, not a resident of Oak Park, but have considered moving there so I know some things. I looked at that article and yeah, it's pretty sad looking for an attractive destination! Maybe I'll see if I can help it a little. 130.126.13.200 21:12, 5 February 2009 (EST)

 * I gave a go at making it a bit less sanguine—I'm rather used to visiting neighborhoods that are a good deal more violent than any of these save Garfield Park & N Lawndale, so I realize my perspective may be a bit skewed. Nonetheless, the last thing I want to do is scare people away from Little Village. I love to take out of town friends there—some of them decided it was their favorite part of their trip in Chicago! Speaking of which, though, I should make a point of adding more Little Village listings, as it's kind of underserved as of now.  --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:07, 5 February 2009 (EST)

 * Thanks for your work! I have no problems any longer with the Stay Safe section. In the process of steering people towards the safer areas of these neighborhoods, it also steers them towards the areas more worth seeing. Also I think it's important because the point is that people like you who are accustomed to visiting less safe neighborhoods probably know enough about the area to be beyond consulting Wikivoyage anyway. I think it is pertinent information for the audience that reads Wikivoyage. Thanks again, I think we have improved the article. (WT-en) Meatpuff 07:13, 10 February 2009 (EST)

More closed listings

 * This neighborhood bar is reputed for its high-quality, healthier-than-usual, pub grub and a friendly, eclectic vibe. The weeknight crowd is cooler than the weekend crowd, by the way.

Black Beetle closed for reasons unknown, and will reportedly reopen some time in the not too distant future as The Beetle—if it turns out a hit, it will be easy to fill out the details. Fortunately, I have a good one up my sleeve. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:27, 20 October 2009 (EDT)

 * Walk in here and you'll think you're in a movie. It's just not possible to pack more West Side blues culture into one bar. A true neighborhood dive, which sees nonetheless a trickle of blues lovers from all over the city to catch the likes of Tail Dragger, a bluesman who's been sweatin' all over Chicago since the days when he played with Howlin' Wolf. Showtimes are unpredictable, so you might want to call in advance, but Tail Dragger usually plays all Sunday night.

Sad sad sad. The West Side's legendary blues clubs are almost all gone now... --(WT-en) Peter Talk 02:58, 20 October 2009 (EDT)

Just closed, sad to say. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 20:40, 6 September 2010 (EDT)

 * Edna's is renowned for having some of the best soul food in Chicago's West Side. Peerless biscuits, heavenly breakfasts, and pie to die for. Edna recently passed away, but the place is still in good hands.

 * Not a square inch remains unused in this store — it's fully covered in hard-to-find dance music cds from Latin America and Eastern Europe, serving the two main communities of Belmont Cragin.

 * Classy, top-notch Pan-Asian dining in (surprisingly) Belmont Cragin, focusing on Thai, Japanese, Chinese, and Caribbean foods. BYOB.

--(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:14, 25 September 2010 (EDT)

Closed: (WT-en) Eco84 05:22, 13 July 2012 (EDT)

 *  The premiere upscale dance club for the young Polish scene in Chicago. Sunday nights are Euro-retro, Wednesday nights are karaoke, and a regular crew of Polish DJs are on the job. Polski is the first language here, but anyone can manage. Dress nice (preferably something tight and shiny) and have a blast. Friday nights see such Polish offerings as mini-skirt & "buff chest" competitions.

 *  English menus are available, but they're the secondary option at this Czech/Bohemian restaurant in Belmont-Cragin. Goulash and bread dumplings in hearty portions are the stand-bys, with food to be accompanied by a pilsner, but the waitresses will guide you through extra options.

title: Talk:Chicago/Far West Side


text:
Talk:Chicago/Hyde Park

Star nomination
OK, after my 20-odd nit-picking edits today and a thorough map update, I think this article is finally up to star status. Again, there are a few photos I have in mind to add/substitute, but I'll have to wait until I'm back in the area to take them, and the article doesn't need them anyway. For some reason, I'm not quite as satisfied with this district as with Bronzeville—if you figure out why this is, please let me know! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 02:39, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I'm confused here. We have two districts of Chicago currently nominated for star status, but the article for the city itself is currently only tagged as usable. Looks guide-ish to me, but I don't know the area well enough to judge. Checking three districts at random, I got two guides and one usable. Could we get to the point where we have one big star for the whole city? (WT-en) Pashley 08:32, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

 * We downgraded the main Chicago article at the outset of dividing the city into districts. I think the content of the article itself is solid (having written a lot of it), but the grading criteria for Huge City articles says that for a Huge City to be a guide, all of its district articles must be at least usable, and for a Huge City to be a star, all of its district articles must be at least guides. So we have one district left to make usable (Chicago/Southwest Side), and then we need to push the rest forward to guide status and do a little more work on the main article before we make it a star (which is our goal). (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 09:47, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Support. The depth of information is terrific (without being excessive - I like that you pruned a couple of the more mundane listings), and the descriptions give a sense of insight from an insider. The map covers a lot of ground and does so well, another impressive job. I'd like to see a more compelling opening - it's pretty dry until the descriptions of Oakwood and Kenwood in the neighborhoods section. And it's not clear if we can visit any of the listings in Kenwood architecture - I assume not, since you tend to be thorough with these things, but I think it should be explicit. Are there opening/closing hours for Jackson Park and/or the places within, like the Japanese Garden? (Is that free?) Is the University still doing DOC films? As I recall, those are free or cheap, and tend to be great selections. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 10:40, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Support. Excellent article. Also support the strategy of a huge city achieving stardom district by district. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 01:15, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Last call for comments...no dissent so far, but it would be good to get more opinions on this one. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 12:22, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

 * Umm, temporary don't support . I want to address Marc's points before this gets starred, Doc films should really be in there. I will do this today and, provided there aren't any other objections, will drop my own and star the article before the 14 days are up! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:05, 8 August 2007 (EDT)
 * Ok, this article is ready. Speak now or forever hold your peace, until you feel like revising the status. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:04, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

 * Support. Better late than never. Keep up the good work guys! – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 02:14, 9 August 2007 (EDT)

 * Yep. Thanks for chiming in! (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 02:34, 9 August 2007 (EDT)

Closed listings
In the Sun-Times yesterday — bummer. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 15:50, 23 May 2009 (EDT)

 * One of the best restaurants in Hyde Park, Dixie Kitchen serves "pan-Southern" cuisine on checkerboard tablecloth with a 1930s eatery ambiance. This transplanted bit of 1930s Mississippi is one of the best places in the city to get a nice meal of southern food, or so says Barack.

 * Disaster. It's one of the best places for a good meal in the area (IMO). I'm surprised this place didn't get more business with the "Obama bump." It certainly would have gotten a plug in that ever-planned Obama tour of Chicag itinerary. Well, I'll be hitting the fried green tomatoes again before June 7th. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:00, 23 May 2009 (EDT)

 * Yeah, I'm in disbelief. The same owner has two Dixie Kitchens that are staying open (one in Evanston, as I recall), but this was the one that got the Obama nod. Keep an eye out for any last-minute presidential orders... (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 16:08, 23 May 2009 (EDT)

Is this due to the recession perhaps? (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 16:03, 23 May 2009 (EDT).

 * Used records and new and used CDs. All sorts of music.

 * An Italian cafe popular with the students. Most of the menu at the Florian is uninspired, but their deep-dish pizza is a true neighborhood favorite.

 * Can't believe Caffe Florian is closed after all these years. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:59, 10 September 2010 (EDT)

 * A pretty fantastic option for staying in Hyde Park, the Wooded Isle suites are right next to the Museum of Science and Industry, Jackson Park, the 57th St Metra station, and the 57th St dining strip. All rooms include a fully equipped kitchen and housekeeping service every other day. It's a bit of a walk to the University (0.8 miles), but make your student come visit you here — it's also just a couple blocks from the beach.

Closed. (WT-en) Eco84 09:19, 8 July 2012 (EDT)

 * Chicago's most hidden gem is nearly impossible to find, but may be Chicago's finest cafe. Run by Woodlawn's artsy/social-cause-chasing Experimentation Station, this extraordinarily laid-back cafe serves incredible fresh coffee (details like the measurement of coffee beans really pay off) and whole pots (for 2-4 people) of quality loose leaf teas for just $4.50. And they have free WiFi. And they screen free indie films/documentaries on Sunday nights. And open mic on Friday nights. To find the place, which is located in an odd industrial/construction zone, with minimal signage, head south from the Midway on Dorchester to take a left on 61st St. It's just around the corner at the dead end on what barely passes for a street. Lastly, don't worry about the location, the streets around the cafe are perfectly safe.

 * Gah. That was a real favorite of mine. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:39, 8 July 2012 (EDT)

Moved listings
Note to whomever edits the map next time: the Artisans 21 Gallery has moved from 5225 S Harper Ave to 1373 E 53rd St. (WT-en) Eco84 09:48, 8 July 2012 (EDT)

The Original Pancake House has moved from 1517 E Hyde Park Blvd to 1358 E 47th St. (WT-en) Eco84 01:07, 9 July 2012 (EDT)

Nitpicky Dissent
I disagree slightly with this article's comments about parking. The University Police don't enforce street parking rules, that's up to the City of Chicago. I agree that the city's enforcement is pretty rough (both meter and free spaces), and the proliferation of permit-required blocks in the neighborhoods surrounding the University shows the impact of the very tight parking situation. Weekend parking is usually not a problem. Seem reasonable to tweak this section a bit? Kaylea H Champion (talk) 09:59, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

 * Parking is a very different story nowadays than when I wrote that in 2007—I think it's now much harder anywhere in the neighborhood. Please update! --Peter Talk 07:45, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

It's not quite correct that there are twice as many police in Hyde Park than any other neighborhood around -- the City of Chicago re-allocates police presence based on quantity of 911 calls from an area over time, so it's difficult to generalize accurately. Seem ok to change this? Kaylea H Champion (talk) 09:59, 17 January 2013 (UTC)

 * Hmm, I'm less sure. Are you saying that higher crime neighborhoods may have so much more Chicago police patrolling because of need, that they may have as much as Hyde Park even including the uchicago police presence? Maybe—but the university police force is pretty huge. The NOI police also have a presence ;) --Peter Talk 07:45, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Chicago/Hyde Park