text:
User talk:EvanProdromou/Jul-Aug-Sep 2007

See also User talk:(WT-en) Evan/Archives

Please direct the following questions to the right spots:

 * Technical requests like feature requests or bug reports should be posted using the tool at wts:Technical requests.
 * For personal messages, use Special:Emailuser/Evan.

Docent
Hi Evan, & lt;docentheader & gt; and & lt;aboutdocent & gt; appear on Montreal. Isn't it related to MediaWiki upgrade ? -- (WT-en) Tatata 01:34, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

xtravelguide and stock description do not work on ja:
Would you please let me know whether it is a bug or a lack of my setup ? -- (WT-en) Tatata 01:52, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

 * No, there's a configuration step I have to do on the server. I'll see if I can get this working on ja:. --(WT-en) Evan 09:18, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

 * O.K. I will wait the configuration. -- (WT-en) Tatata 09:38, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

Hi Evan. If it is in time for the configuration, could you 	deploy the related articles feature on ja:? -- (WT-en) Tatata 04:11, 14 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Can I see them within the month ? -- (WT-en) Tatata 15:33, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

Template:IsIn in
Look. It does not work. Where is the problem? Saluton! (WT-en) Staieram 04:49, 7 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I think you had better to fix includeonly tag, nowiki tag and noinclude tag, first of all. -- (WT-en) Tatata 07:01, 7 July 2007 (EDT)

Bot flag
Hi Evan, I'm (WT-hu) Dorgan an admin from Hungarian Wikivoyage. Can my bot get the bot flag in (WT-hu) Hu, (WT-en) En, (WT-nl) Nl,, (WT-it) It and (WT-de) De wikivoyages? thx: (WT-en) Dorgan 08:01, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Hey, Dorgan. Has it gone through the script policy review? What does it do? --(WT-en) Evan 10:02, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

Look at it! (WT-en) Dorgan 10:21, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I transcribed the version. (WT-en) Dorgan 11:16, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

Image licensing
I recently added an image (Image:373296152 5f5620faf9.jpg) to the Swansea article and later had doubts about whether it had been released under a compatible license. Based on these doubts, I removed the image from the article, and it is currently under review for vfd on shared. Anyway, I've since had another look at the WT licensing policy and think I that I am reasonable clear about it. However, I would feel more confident about uploading images from Flickr in the future if someone could confirm my assumptions. So, if you have the time, could please take a look at the Flickr licensing categories and get back to me. Basically, they have six kinds of CC license, and based on my understanding of WT's policy, I am assuming that it only the top on the list, Attribution 2.0, and the bottom one of these six, Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0, that are compatible with WT licensing. Is that correct? In addition, as Flickr is a major source of many of the images, I wonder whether it would be worth adding a note to the copyright policy info on shared that specifically refers to their CC licensing categorization. I appreciate your help. (WT-en) Frequenttrekker 04:20, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

 * You are mostly correct. The only tricky part is that by-sa 2.x and 3.0 licenses are technically incompatible with our own 1.0 version. However, we will probably upgrade to version 3.0 at some point, so it might not make any sense to delete images under those licenses.

 * I agree that a note on the image policy page might be useful. --(WT-en) Evan 19:35, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I apologize in advance for the sarcasm I'm about to unleash, especially because I like you. Why should we technically allow for our users, readers, and distributors to be and remain in violation of our own by-sa 1.0 inspired copyleft for some upgrade that has not been discussed by the community?
 * Also, how is there even the feeblest chance that any upgrade is legally permissible!? There's been talk of this off and on now for quite a while, but as far as I can tell (of course I'm not accredited by any bar association) but it's impossible for such an upgrade to take place without 1. deleting everything on Wikivoyage or 2. we attempt to do one of those shoddy stunts World66 did and say "Hey, you've got until Month and Day of this Year to notify us not to relicense your work under CC-by-SA 3.0".  As long as we wait until the statutes are up then we wouldn't have anything to worry about in the US legal system, but it's still a cheap attempt to force the relicensing of someone's work.  Also, how would we handle the objections from anonymous users?  -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 22:44, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

 * It's not such a shoddy stunt -- re-licensing from one version of a license to a later, improved one isn't particularly vicious or tricky. If you think about it, it's really about being good stewards of the work that people have contributed here. Keeping our license limited to what's becoming a very old version isn't doing anyone any good, and it's starting to do us harm. I think if we are careful we can do an upgrade with a minimum of difficulty and harm. Here's how it could work:

 * First of all, under international law a publisher can act on behalf of an anonymous author until that author chooses to identify themselves. So Wikivoyage as a project can probably just go ahead and relicense anonymous contributions unless we hear some squawks from said users.

 * Second, we can send emails to everyone who's registered with an email address, and ask them to make a positive checkoff to relicense their work. We can try to spread the word as much as possible.

 * Then, we can set a long timeframe for negative checkoffs ("tell us if you don't want to relicense"). When we're done with whatever notification period we go through, it's possible we'll have some number of contributions which haven't gotten positive or negative checkoff from the contributors. Then we have a dilemma: we can either delete their contributions (there are tools to do this), or we can go ahead and distribute the works as if they'd been relicensed by the contributor, until we hear otherwise.

 * There are no harm, no foul rules for when a project relicenses work by a contributor without positive checkoff from the contributor. If such a contributor were to go to court, they'd have to show that the new license a) causes them harm and b) clearly deviates from their expectations when they originally licensed their works. The differences between the by-sa 1.0 and by-sa 3.0 are quite small and don't at all have to do with the spirit of the license. (They mostly have to do with getting rid of the "this version and only this version" problem that we're having.) If we have a lot of people who agree positively to the upgrade, this will show clearly that a rational person would not have their expectations violated by the change.

 * Finally, we'd handle any objections by any contributors with a delete-first policy. It will be annoying and hard, but I think we can hope that the majority of contributors actually have the best interests of the project and of travellers at heart.

 * The advantages to upgrading are many. Probably the most important is that we could have the different language versions use the localized worldwide version for the country or countries that use that language. Also, when upgrading we could use "or any later version by Creative Commons", which would make upgrading in the future automatic.

 * When will this happen? I don't know. It's something that a few people have been asking about, ever since CC 2.0 came out. It's going to have to be a community decision when and how to step forward with this -- when the disadvantages of staying with an old version of the license (whose major difference is enforced incompatibility) outweigh the hassles of making this change. --(WT-en) Evan 18:29, 16 July 2007 (EDT)

TTemplate:Usablestate
A reminder on this template series you said you'd create. Have a look at California as a reminder on why it's needed. (WT-en) OldPine 21:51, 15 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I just changed California to usableregion, which makes it somewhat better... that's what we've been using for the most part so far. – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 01:17, 16 July 2007 (EDT)

Italic romanization?
Hi Evan, could you comment about this on the following talk page please? Thanks.

Why are we italicizing romanizations, eg Shanghai (上海 Shànghǎi)? Please reply on Project:Romanization. Thanks --(WT-en) Rogerhc 18:34, 16 July 2007 (EDT)

web/email format
→ Wikivoyage_talk:Listings – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 01:51, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

:shared admin switch
Hi Evan! I held off on asking for this, but now feel knowledgeable enough about :shared that I would like to have my sysop switch turned on. Thanks! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:10, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

 * No problem whatsoever. I'm going to assume that your username on shared: is the same as your name on en: (let me know if I accidentally set the admin bit for the wrong person). Every admin on every language version is supposed to also be an admin on shared:, but because people don't always have the same user name I don't do it automatically. Anyways, it's set now. --(WT-en) Evan 22:25, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

 * That's me. Thanks again! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:14, 25 July 2007 (EDT)

Wikivoyage:es wants a visit counter as the other Wikivoyage versions.
Neither Texugo nor me knows how to install it on the wiki, that's why I speak to you about this topic. I look for your response. By the way, thanks to the paper El País and a report in the National Spanish TV Antena3 (I'll send you the link to youtube as soon as I get it) about Wikivoyage, we've gotten more than 450 users in less than 2 days, and improving! I though it was a great news you'd like to know. Bye (WT-en) Nanow jesús madrid 11:38, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

 * So, the way we do caching, there isn't really a way to count article visits. Whatever is on some of the other versions is veeeeerrrrry old. You can get general Wikivoyage Web visit info at http://wikivoyage.org/webalizer/web/.

 * Awesome news about es: and the media! And great work! --(WT-en) Evan 14:58, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I think general info makes no sense for language versions other than en:, because en: is enormous. Please see this tech request. -- (WT-en) Tatata 12:30, 28 July 2007 (EDT)

JS and CSS
Japanese version wants to use JavaScript and CSS to replace list marker with icon for list item in the "In other languages" box. Would you enable MediaWiki:Common.css and MediaWiki:Common.js to work on ja:? -- (WT-en) Tatata 15:31, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Ugh. I'll see what I can do. Can you make a tech request on shared:, please? --(WT-en) Evan 14:29, 28 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Sorry, I should have done so first. Here is the tech request. -- (WT-en) Tatata 00:44, 29 July 2007 (EDT)

:ru
Evan, I recently stumbled across the Russian namespace and wrote up a prototype (WT-ru) Main Page in Russian. I would like to see the Russian project start to get off the ground and could work on translating and starting the basic pages and templates, but is there anything that needs to be taken care of first? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 05:51, 28 July 2007 (EDT)

 * See wts:Russian Wikivoyage Expedition. As far as I know, we just need someone to step forward and be the liaison for that language version to get it off the ground. All I need to do, I think, is unlock the wiki. Let me know if you're interested in the job, and I'll do it immediately. --(WT-en) Evan 14:31, 28 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I'll do it; the liaison job looks pretty manageable. I've already added myself on the expedition page as liaison. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 15:01, 28 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I have already made an account (strangely, before you unlocked the site) and it is ru:Участ��ик:Peterfitzgerald. I'm on the job and will hopefully have the most basic pages (pub, mos, about, extlinks, etc) up in a jiffy. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:59, 29 July 2007 (EDT)

 * When you get a chance would you please flip my :ru admin switch so I can get to work on MediaWiki files. Thanks! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:03, 30 July 2007 (EDT)

 * OK, it should be done. --(WT-en) Evan 03:08, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

:ru/Recent changes
Do you have any idea why the ToC for the country template is appearing on the recent changes page? It's kind of embarrassing! --(WT-en) Peter 17:25, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

 * Hmm, it disappeared as mysteriously as it came... --Peter 17:27, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

one more thing
Do you know what this is: ru:Ð¡Ð»ÑÐ¶ÐµÐ±Ð½Ð°Ñ:Mypage and ru:Ð¡Ð»ÑÐ¶ÐµÐ±Ð½Ð°Ñ:Mytalkpage? I don't know what to make of these, and my delete finger is itchy, but I don't want to do anything to them without having an idea of what they are. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 03:56, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

Bot flag
Hi, I saw your opinion on Script nomination page. So what can I do? (WT-en) Dorgan 15:33, 28 July 2007 (EDT)

+ could you update the MessagesHu.php in the server? Because of that. (WT-en) Dorgan 13:44, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

new tags editor?
What happened to the new terrific listings editor you had on review? I tried to look at it again just now and it's gone :(  – (WT-en) cacahuate   talk 02:21, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

 * Hmm. I think when I did the "split pages" thing I refreshed the review installation of MediaWiki from the default Wikivoyage installation. So the listings thing got lost. I'll see what I can do to switch it back. --(WT-en) Evan 04:37, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

 * I think this should really be a priority to get enabled on Wikivoyage ASAP -- for one thing, the no-longer-secret books rely on listings for automated formatting. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:27, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

 * I agree, I think this would be a really great thing to make happen soon... a huge leap forward for editing! I can't think of a better innovation for making the wiki easier and more alluring to edit. Pure genius. – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 03:29, 4 August 2007 (EDT)

:es admin switch
Sorry to bombard you with admin switch requests, but I've just been elected on the spanish version, would you please give me flip. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:05, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

talk on shared...
Just a note... Orel wants you to give admin rights to another user on :he... wts:User talk:(WV-wts) Evan – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 01:54, 9 August 2007 (EDT)

:ru name change request
Hi Evan, would you please change ru:Участник:(WT-ru) Ostikhin's username to Flrn. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 03:33, 10 August 2007 (EDT)

:it attacks

 * I'm very sorry for disturbing you while travelling. Please, forgive me. May I use your e-mail address with dominion wikivoyage.org for semi-urgent matters? Let me know if I can reach you in your talk page in en:wikivoyage or in wikivoyage shared (WT-en) Gobbler 14:40, 16 August 2007 (EDT)

 * Clean-up is not necessary: I deleted the vandalized pages. I also created a new page where recording all sort of vandalism. Sorry, again for my behaviour. Consider that I'm concerned with bots attacks. (WT-en) Gobbler 14:40, 16 August 2007 (EDT)

Drug-user guide in Amsterdam ?
Hi Evan, when adding some data to the article about Amsterdam, I was astonished to find a rather extensive elaboration on drugs in Amsterdam, that IMHO could be seen as a direct invitation to use drugs, especially the third paragraph of the section „Cannabis and other drugs”. I’m not advocating for a complete removal the section about drugs but for shortening it to a reasonable size and content, as WikiTravel is not a drug-user guide. In case it hasn’t been done already, I would also recommend to check the wording by a company specialist or lawyer in order to avoid legal trouble for WikiTravel. -- (WT-en) Túrelio 04:36, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

 * Coffeeshops are legal in the Netherlands, so a guide to this country should cover them obviously, and I do not think that there are laws in any democracy that forbid to describe the situation in another country. If you do not think that this paragraph conforms to our policy, anyhow, feel free to change it.
 * And I am sure that Internt Brands lawyers are watching WT very closely, because they might get in trouble otherwise. --(WT-en) Flip666 writeme! • 18:17, 19 August 2007 (EDT)

admins and bureaucrats
Hey there! Riggwelter's nomination has passed for b'crat on shared, my admin nom has passed on, and there are two bureacrat noms on English that you might want to weigh in on. – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 14:57, 18 August 2007 (EDT)

 * On this note, I was thinking that it might be useful for me to be a bureaucrat on :ru, if only so that I don't have to bother you about name-change requests. I think Russian Wikivoyage's progress has been pretty good so far and you can read our detailed, first month's liaison report here. Hope you had a good time at Burning Man! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:54, 2 September 2007 (EDT)

New administrator on es:
(WT-es) User:Hwk has been approved as an administrator on es:. Could you please flip his status for us? Maybe I should seek burocrat status there since we don't have one besides you? (WT-en) Texugo 02:50, 4 September 2007 (EDT)

Hey
Good to see you back! (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 16:48, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

Hyatt touts
I don't necessarily disagree with you about the welcomeness of information on Hyatt hotels; I stay at Hyatts quite frequently on professional travel, and they're viable lodging options as appropriate to list in ways compatible with the MoS as any other hotels. However, that guy has been putting toutish listings into articles for months now despite repeated, and originally entirely cordial, requests to read the MoS, do the listings in a way consistent with our goals, and so on. (Check his contribution log and the history on his talk page.) If someone else wants to edit those contributions into something useful, fine, but I have other things to do with my time than de-tout what he writes and we still do have a don't-tout policy.

Incidentally, User:(WT-en) PerryPlanet (his first name is John, btw) isn't an admin (although I think he'd make a good one) and therefore doesn't have the rollback button, so he has to do his de-touting the hard way. Looks like he goofed once, but his heart is in the right place in the struggle against the touts. (P.S. Welcome back, indeed.) -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 19:17, 14 September 2007 (EDT)

Help namespace
Hello. Not knowing MediaWiki very much, I am wondering about one thing. As far as I know some implementations of MW use "Help:" namespace. On WT there's all of this subject in "Wikivoyage:". Any particular reason for this? (sorry to bother you, but I haven't found anything on that any where else). (WT-en) LukeWestwalker ⇔ 16:24, 16 September 2007 (EDT)

 * No problem. We started Wikivoyage before the "Help:" namespace became standard, and we really haven't had much need to move our help articles there. --(WT-en) Evan 18:12, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

Google search form
Hi Evan,

After the search problem on en:, I'm thinking of adding Google search form to search result page on ja: and shared:. I think there is no technical problem because just adding a form like this. So I'd like to be sure whether there is any other problem or not. Can I try to do this? -- (WT-en) Tatata 10:57, 17 September 2007 (EDT)

 * No problem? Maybe I'll start this tomorrow. -- (WT-en) Tatata 04:27, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

 * I had a look at SpecialSearch.php and I gave this up. Then, I made a feature request. ;-)
 * BTW, I could make ja:Template:Related work. Now I'm thinking of modifying wts:Template:Related to work for not only main namespace but others and add urlencode into it. If I can do it, I may relate tech requests and pages of each common point. -- (WT-en) Tatata 07:01, 22 September 2007 (EDT)

Patrol
Hey, I'm not an admin. Then how on earth am I being allowed to patrol edits? Something fishy is going on. (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage • ( Talk ) • ( (WT-en) Travel ) • 06:20, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

 * →Wikivoyage_talk:Recent_changes_patrol#patrolling_is_now_available_for_non-admin --(WT-en) Peter Talk 13:14, 19 September 2007 (EDT)

"About" page(s)
On pl About there is a statement (English: This is a translation of Wikivoyage:About into Polish. For more information see the Polish Wikivoyage Expedition.). As I have been recently told to consider this page as obsolete, I wanted to remove the mentioned phrase from pl About, so as not to direct users to outdated info. However I have noticed that such phrase is present on About pages on some local versions (ex. es), while on some is not. So, is this phrase obligatory? (WT-en) LukeWestwalker ⇔ 15:46, 22 September 2007 (EDT)

 * No, it's not obligatory. Wikivoyage language versions are independent. (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:23, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

interlanguage style consistency
Dear Evan, let me ask much more official question for you are an admin on the Polish Wikitrave. As you may have seen, I volunteered to finish unfinished translation of the Polish Wikivoyage. It seemed indispensable as any sensible contribution to PL WT is very difficult without basic guidelines. I have already done some of the translations and was intending to translate Manual of Style to Polish. However in the meantime I learned from one of the admins that PL WT is a separate project so style guidelines from en don’t apply (so for example accommodation listings must not appear in any article). This point of view has been confimed above. Still there is not a page of Manual of style in Polish (except for Bodies of water) so it’s difficult to say what guidelines apply. Therefore I am a bit puzzled – should I translate Manual of Style into Polish (which is a large job)? Or Polish Wikivoyage should wait until a group of users is gathered to compose and agree upon brand new Manual of Style, while in the meantime new articles are created without consistent format (eg. containing lots of links to secondary sources)? Thank you in advance for help. (WT-en) LukeWestwalker ⇔ 12:20, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

NFL
You made a joke about it in Puerto Rico, but you can once again follow the exciting adventures of the (WT-en) Bengals again. That's right, I may be 5,400 miles away, but I'm still on top of it. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 19:19, 23 September 2007 (EDT)

Adminstrator on Hebrew
Hi. Can you please make an adminstrator? This will help us very much. Thanks Orel Zion


text:
User talk:EvanProdromou/Jul-Aug-Sep-Oct-2005

See also User talk:(WT-en) Evan/Archives

Reuse of WikiTravel on my website
Hi Evan. I would like to know if there is a way for me to reuse the contents on Wikivoyage on my website. I would of course give the credit and reference to WikiTravel and authors. Is there an easy way to do that? Thank you.

 * See Project:How to re-use Wikivoyage guides. --(WT-en) Evan 07:52, 4 Jul 2005 (EDT)
 * I have seen this page already. Is there any progress about downloads? Thank you.

 * No. --(WT-en) Evan 11:05, 4 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Do you have any plans to work on it? Can you make the SQL dump available for download? I do not want to be irrespectful or annoy you, but I just think that sharing the contents could help both WikiTravel and the community, and me. Thank you for your reply.

 * How so? I don't see a good case.

 * I don't plan on doing a database dump, since a) it'll be humongous and b) I don't think we can meet both the terms of our copyleft (esp. attribution and history) while still meeting the privacy policy (not exposing personal info like email addy and such). I could probably figure out a way to do both, but it's low on my list of priorities. Sorry, but Wikivoyage mirrors haven't been a real boon to the project, and I don't plan to dedicate my really limited free time to making it easy for you to mirror.

 * That said, there's an HTML dump utility in MediaWiki 1.5.x, and when we upgrade to that, I'll be making HTML dumps available. --(WT-en) Evan 15:37, 4 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * I can't be that hard to dump the DB without email addresses and passwords. This would not be a problem with regard to the CC license (If it was, there would be no point in having a copyleft license in the first place). I might want play around with the DB, but not make a mirror.--(WT-en) elgaard 16:10, 4 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * It's not that hard. It's just hard enough that it's going to take more of my time than I want to put into it. The reason it's a license problem is that Wikimedia sites typically just do a dump of the most recent version of an article (the so-called cur table). This won't have any history info, and all the N people who've contributed to the article won't get credit. Wikivoyage can't do that-- we don't have any more right to distribute contributors' works outside the license than anyone else. So we'd also have to include historical versions and user info (real name, etc.). This stuff is packed into a user table that also included your password (1-way crypted, but subject to attack at leisure) and your email address. I can write a script to pick out the sensitive info from the database dumps, but with the time I have to devote to Wikivoyage, I'd rather work on fixing bugs than making database dumps. Bug fixes make for a more pleasant experience for contributors, which makes for more content and gets us closer to our goals; database dumps for mirror operators doesn't have an immediate payback. --(WT-en) Evan 20:20, 4 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Is there anything preventing someone from writing a dumper script and submitting it for your review? Like is there anything special about Wikivoyage's tables vs. Stock MediaWiki?  -- (WT-en) Colin 20:24, 4 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * No, it's exactly the same. I think a dumper script would be fine, although I'm still not crazy about serving the dump (about 200Mb for the en file). Again, this is a low priority for me. --(WT-en) Evan 10:13, 5 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Whatever you might say, but its evident that you don't want to share the content and don't want others to come up with a complete copy of your wikivoyage site. anyways, you are restricting the content give by people to you for free. Not a good idea though

 * Contributors like myself license our contributions with a specific legal license that puts conditions on Evan just as much as you. You have no more conditions placed upon you than have already been placed upon Evan.  And let me be clear: I, for one, intended that to happen.  It is not an accident that I am contributing to a site where all contributions have conditions placed upon them. And please keep in mind that each and every contributor has legal standing to take action against anyone who fails to live up to the license put upon the contributor's work.  -- (WT-en) Colin 03:28, 10 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * I agree with the anonymous critic, Evan and his selfish attempts to bottle up Wikivoyage content by publishing it on a site that is accessible only by those connected to the internet is the purest form of evil. Together we should form a coalition of anonymous web site operators and begin a campaign against Wikivoyage, not letting up the pressure until full dumps of all Wikivoyage data are provided in SQL, XML, Braille, and Morse Code.  And even then, until Evan is willing to provide feeds of incremental updates in RSS and over AM/FM frequencies (as narrated by (WT-en) Jpatokal and (WT-en) Colin) I think his motives should be questioned.  DOWN WITH EVAN!

 * Is this one a joke? --(WT-en) Evan 11:32, 15 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * Sorry, I should have signed it and used lots of smileys. I thought it was a bit outrageous for a user who doesn't contribute here and won't even sign in to criticize you for openness when you're running a site that is accessible to the entire world under a free license. -- (WT-en) Wrh2 11:43, 15 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * It was good humor. Started out deadpan, and built up to some ridiculousness gradually. You totally had me. --(WT-en) Evan 12:21, 15 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * No, I don't want to keep all the data to myself. Obviously, anyone can take the rendered HTML data (or XML data from Special:Export) and use it as they will, following the requirements of the Project:copyleft. The main thing that is difficult right now is doing a bulk download of all the Wikivoyage content. SQL dumps, HTML dumps, and/or XML dumps would be helpful for this.

 * Working on making dumps is a priority (see User:(WT-en) Evan/TODO), but it's a low priority for me. I'd much rather devote my time and energy to technical tasks that will improve the user experience on wikivoyage.org; experience shows that those kind of improvements cause spurts of growth in the guides themselves. I'm sure that working on making third-party mirrors easier would also help, if indirectly, but I guess I just haven't put that time in.

 * Let me finally say that it would be foolish of Wikivoyage to hold back these dumps to prevent third-party distribution of the content. That horse has already left the barn, as you can see on Project:Mirrors. It would probably even be easier on the servers, since less thoughtful mirror-makers tend to hit our servers pretty hard with Web spiders. --(WT-en) Evan 11:32, 15 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Its not about being anonymous, i can list my email and all contact but i didn't have any intention to register on a website of a person who takes content for the world and then makes it his own, its not his content, and as per wiki foundation, they provide their content and the content that has creative commons on it, can be used by anyone, just one condition, they shouldn't restrict the content from being re used.

As Colin said, users who contribute have their rights on content, i do not agree, cause its written that one who contributes, his content will be used by anyone else on the internet, with or without modifications.

Let them restrict the content. i dont think that will be having any good impact.

 * Hi there. I really seriously think this is just a simple mis-understanding, possibly owing to language difficulties.  You seem to be mistaken about the terms of the license.  The content is free for anyone to use with just two simple restrictions: Credit where credit is due, and contribute back your changes.  How terrible is that?  It sounds fair to me.  Perhaps follow the link to the Creative Commons licenses, and read the version for your own native language.  Cheers! -- (WT-en) Mark 04:53, 15 Aug 2005 (EDT)

I think all the people who are supporting Ivan must be his cock suckers. but this content doesnt belong to IVAN at all, he just started this website. and am the same anonymous, i have got a crawler developed and will make a clone using the scraping. and i was just asking for dumps as people doing screen scraping will slow there servers. But i have the crawler. so now i dont need u to make any dumps. enjoy. u will soon see a clone of wikivoyage

 * Hey. When you say IVAN do you mean Evan?  If so you are quite right that he doesn't own the content, rather the individual contributors do.  This is why you will need to give credit to each individual contributor on your mirror of Wikivoyage, and why we probably shouldn't be discussing it on this page.  Other than that please do feel free to use the content.

 * Anyhow I think we all assumed that you knew about crawlers and things like that already sorry that we didn't pick up on that before. I suppose in hindsight that it did seem pretty odd that you thought the lack of a db dump meant you couldn't use the content.  Anyhow, if you need any tips on using the crawler please feel free to come back and discuss it, probably on  Project:How to re-use Wikivoyage guides.  Oh, one thing, can you make sure it follow the robots.txt rule for the delay between page-hits?  -- (WT-en) Mark 03:22, 19 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Cache 404
Speaking of which, I'd love to help work on bug fixes, but my stock Mediawiki installation doesn't behave at all like Wikivoyage. Do you have a patch set which will get me to the point where I see the same bugs locally? Are there other issues (apache config?)  Thanks! -- (WT-en) Mark 01:15, 5 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * The key difference is the 404-handler caching system, which flops plain HTML files out onto the filesystem when a file isn't found. This way, Wikivoyage serves mostly flat HTML files. This is our "medium-sized" solution -- generating every page every time is too costly for us, but we don't have an array of reverse-squids, like Wikimedia does.

 * There's a read-only arch repository for the Cache404 extension at http://bad.dynu.ca/~evan/arch/ (category mw-cache404). It should have at least some of the info you need to get it set up. It's an extension, not a patch-- you should be able to cp -R everything to your MediaWiki setup.

 * The key thing for Apache is to set up MediaWiki as an ErrorDocument for a directory, so that if a file isn't there, MW+Cache404 will try to put it there. The one in /en/ looks like this:

ErrorDocument 404 /wiki/en/index.php ExpiresActive on ExpiresDefault M0

RewriteEngine On RewriteBase /en/

RewriteRule ^(Special:.*) /wiki/en/index.php?title=$1&%{QUERY_STRING} [L]

RewriteRule \.html$ - [L] RewriteRule ^$ Main_Page.html [L]

RewriteRule ^(.*)$ $1.html [L]

 * I think the Rewrites for .html aren't terribly necessary -- they could be done with MultiViews. The Rewrite for Special: is to make sure that e.g. Recent changes isn't cached.

 * For LocalSettings.php, you have to include the extension, and set a couple of variables. The most important is to turn off file caching in MediaWiki (else you get a redirect loop).

$LP = "$WEBROOT/$wgLanguageCode"; $wgCachePages = false;

require_once("extensions/Cache404.php");

$wgCacheDirectory = "$LP"; $wgCachePath = "/$wgLanguageCode"; $wgCache404MaxCount = 800; $wgCache404MaxSize = 25600000;

 * Here, "directory" and "path" are the filesystem and Web path, respectively.

 * The key thing that I want to do is fix the username.js so it doesn't falsely show your username when you're not actually logged in anymore. But I haven't dug far enough into the user setup code to figure out what the difference is.

 * Looks like the problem here is that the cookie is not reset when the user is logged out accidentally (probably because of Watch List bug). Perhaps Mediawiki would correct this on the next pageload under normal conditions, but of course Apache does not know to do this when serving a flat file.  I imagine you'll see the same effect with an expired cookie.

 * So I guess there are a couple of approches to this:

 * Fixing the Watch List bug will solve the worst problem

 * Adding code which checks the validity of the cookie and resets an invalid one every time index.php is called would at least show you as logged out once you access a special page.

 * Maybe it would be possible to find some way to verify the validity of the cookie locally?

 * Any other ideas? I'll continue to investigate meanwhile. -- (WT-en) Mark 12:14, 11 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * The other thing I want to do is replace the nav-builder functions in the Skinterceptor with one that ignores security levels, and then flip things on and off in the Javascript. And I want to add an array of admin IDs to the pages, and compare the cookie to an admin ID, to (optionally) turn on and off the admin links.

 * (Obviously, the link turning on and off is only for convenience. If someone managed to get around the checks, all they'd be able to do would be see a link that would be rejected when submitted).

 * The makeRoomForFile function, and friends, could use some optimizing. And I disabled sub-pages (Foo/Bar) entirely, which could probably use some changing.

 * I'd also like to set up an admin-only special page to flush the cache for one, some, or all pages if necessary.

 * Image: pages for images used in an article need to be invalidated when the article is saved (since they link back to the using article).

 * Lastly, I'd like to set up a MediaWiki skin that allows client-side skins, a la

Alternative Style: Working With Alternate Style Sheets on A List Apart.

 * Lemme know if that's enough to get you started. --(WT-en) Evan 07:05, 5 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Cool! I'm going to be on the train (swiss trains have outlets!) for 5 hours or so tomorrow, and will see if I can get the 404 rigged up then.  Meanwhile I'll set up a copy of the repository in my arch mirror at http://mark.sdf-eu.org/arch.  Thanks! -- (WT-en) Mark 08:17, 5 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Would you have any objection to starting a page such as Project:Software setup or something similar that discusses how a developer/tester could get their own mirror of the Wikivoyage Mediawiki setup going? There are enough technically-minded contributors and future contributors that could help with bug fixes (such as (WT-en) Mark did with the watchlist bug) that making this info available in a place other than your talk page could be valuable. -- (WT-en) Wrh2 15:57, 17 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Mediawiki Branch
FYI, I've found that I'm going to have to work on the 1.4.x branch for the moment, which I guess is what the Mediawiki developers seem to want patches against anyhow (I read that thread back in March). For the moment the trunk code doesn't quite work with the version of mysql 1.4 in sid, plus they've eliminated $title->getBrokenLinksTo, which will eventually require a patch to Cache404.php. -- (WT-en) Mark 08:23, 11 Jul 2005 (EDT)

URL creation
I've also noticed a pretty big difference in the way vanilla mediawiki (either REV1_4 or the trunk) constructs URLs from the way Wikivoyage does it. Would this also be a change to LocalSettings.php? -- (WT-en) Mark 08:39, 11 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Nevermind. Found it:

$wgArticlePath   = "$wgScriptPath/$1";

 * -- (WT-en) Mark 08:46, 11 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Patch for Watchlist bug
Since the username.js bug seems to mostly be a side-effect of the Watchlist changes boot you out bug I decided to tackle that one first. It's a one liner (the patch is against the REV1_4 branch in CVS).

Index: includes/User.php =================================================================== RCS file: /cvsroot/wikipedia/phase3/includes/User.php,v retrieving revision 1.104.2.23 diff -w -u -r1.104.2.23 User.php --- includes/User.php  12 Jun 2005 18:12:09 -0000      1.104.2.23 +++ includes/User.php  12 Jul 2005 14:03:48 -0000 @@ -987,6 +987,7 @@                 if ( wfReadOnly ) { return ; } $this->saveNewtalk; +               $this->setCookies; if ( 0 == $this->mId ) { return; }

I'll email it to both the Wikivoyage and Mediawiki lists as well. I have no idea if they'll accept it since this bug is only manifest when using Cache404.

The problem turned out to happen because the user's EditToken as saved in the session, the cookie, and the db sometimes stop matching. Changing a user's watchlist causes $user->saveSettings to be called which syncs the one in the session with the db, but not the one in the cookie, when the db EditToken and the cookie EditToken fail to match on the next page load the user is considered logged out, even though she still has a cookie.

Setting the cookie at the same time as saving the user's settings to the db cures this problem. -- (WT-en) Mark 10:13, 12 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Added JavaScript Tabs builder
So, I did the easier task first (after the watchlist fix). I've added an override for the function that creates the URL lines for move, protect/unprotect, etc... and have added functionality to username.js to add them back on the fly for a list of admin user ids, as you suggested above.

The patches are available in my arch mirror at http://mark.sdf-eu.org/arch.

I still have to do the watch/unwatch tabs. I haven't decided how to attack the problem though. I suppose that a list of article IDs could be stored in a cookie, but it won't take long for more prolific users to hit the 4k cookie size limit. Another option I suppose would be to write an XML or JavaScript file containing the list for registered user whenever the user changes their watchlist, and to read it in on pageloads with a function in username.js. Which do you think would be better? Is there another even better way?

Meanwhile I've been thinking more about the problem of seeming to be logged in when actually logged out. It does still happen, but now only when the user's session has expired or something like that. I'm investigating whether I could do something with the apache session stuff somehow working in lockstep with the PHP session. If by some miracle this could be made to work it would be another good place to put the watchlist IDs. What do you think? -- (WT-en) Mark 12:39, 15 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Oh, I forgot to mention that I've tested this for Firefox, IE6 and Konqueror. -- (WT-en) Mark 11:36, 19 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Recommendation?
I read your page describing your experience with using MediaWiki on WikiTravel. I'm going to be developing something like a wiki for historical places, and I'm at the point where I'm trying to decide between taking a snap of MediaWiki and modifying it or building what I need from scratch. The thing I'm building has some features in common with a wiki: anyone can edit pages, view histories, subscribe to changes, etc. But other features are different: each page must be about a particular historic place (country, state, province, county, region, city, etc.) - other pages are not allowed. Also, there are specific metadata fields for each place that I'd like to keep pretty structured: latitude, longitude, type (country/county/city/etc.), year founded, year ended, alternate names, along with a big text box describing the region (which would be in MediaWiki format). In fact, I'd like to create a special template for turning these metadata fields into a separate "fact box" on the page, and a special Edit script that would put up individual HTML form fields for each of these metadata fields along with the traditional textbox for editing the description.

There are other differences as well, but these are the main ones. Given your experience using MediaWiki in a slightly different environment than it is intended, do you think it would be faster to develop what I need from scratch, or to take a snap of MediaWiki and modify it? I would want to launch on a small hardware base initially - say two MySQL boxes arranged in a master/slave relationship and two MediaWiki servers, serving around 100K pages/day, and I'd prefer to hire someone else to make the modifications (someone with experience hacking MediaWiki) rather than to modify MediaWiki myself.

Note that although I think it would be ideal to make minor enough changes to the MediaWiki codebase that I could fold in new MediaWiki releases as they became available, I expect that the changes would be significant enough that I wouldn't be able to fold in new releases, so the decision is either to develop from scratch and maintain the codebase myself, or start with the current version of MediaWiki, modify it, and then maintain it myself.

dallan _at_ quass dot org

 * I don't think what you're talking about would be at all unreasonable for MW to handle. I think that there are some great opportunities for using metadata markup e.g. Turtle which could factor into presentation. I think you'd be mistaken to think that your "fork" would have to stay separate from the codebase forever. I know that there are other semi-structured projects inside and outside Wikimedia that would benefit. --(WT-en) Evan

 * Thanks! --dallan

French translation
Hi Evan,

Could you update the page Project:LanguageFr.php because there are few mistakes I would like to fix for the french translation. Thanks in advance. --(WT-en) Quirk 07:18, 7 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Done! Let me know when I should re-install it. --(WT-en) Evan 08:44, 7 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * It's ok! I've also removed the Support link from the navigation box (Project:Bug_reports) and fixed this error (fr:Project:Rapport d'erreurs). --(WT-en) Quirk 10:10, 7 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Wikipedian Meeting on July 11
Shall we have the honor of your presence? (RSVP at the new page here) --Liberlogos

de:Project:Nominierungen zum Administrator
Hi Evan,

there was an election for two new sysops od de. last week. Do you agree with these two candidates and can you sysop them if possible? -- 84.182.91.246 01:45, 11 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * I have no idea who any of the elected admins are. I'd like to at least get a vouch from one of the existing admins that they're appropriate, that they understand Wikivoyage, and that they're going to improve the communications and cohesiveness with the rest of Wikivoyage rather than weaken it further. I've posted some questions; looks like the 2-admin margin wasn't reached. --(WT-en) Evan 08:38, 11 Jul 2005 (EDT)

User:(WT-en) Sexy Fried Chicken
Um, this user's talk page and user page should be changed because of its content. --(WT-en) Admrboltz 22:16, 14 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * If you think a page needs to be changed on Wikivoyage, please, plunge forward. --(WT-en) Evan 13:21, 15 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Taking over InterLangBot
I'd like to resurrect User:(WT-en) InterLangBot, but I don't know the account's password and HansM is AWOL. Can you hack me in or should I just create a new account under a different name? (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:59, 17 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Do you have the software? And, yes, just create a new account with a different name. --(WT-en) Evan 11:09, 17 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Different software but exactly the same functionality: . (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:22, 17 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Great. Please post on Project:Script nominations. --(WT-en) Evan 15:29, 17 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Circular redirects (esp. Redang)
Could I ask you to work some magic to solve the long-outstanding circular redirects problem, in particular for Redang? I'll be paying it a visit this weekend and would dearly love to write it up, but at the moment I can't because the page is uneditable   . (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:30, 19 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Yeah, I hate that bug. I'll see what I can do about the code, but for now I just went into the DB and twiddled one of the redirects. I think Galveston is OK now, and I'm not sure about Houston. Redang should work. --(WT-en) Evan 08:20, 19 Jul 2005 (EDT)

German Admin
hi evan, today i had a look at de:Project:Nominierungen zum Administrator, where the nomination round for Steffen M. and DerFussi has ended at July, 7 with at all six pro-votes (2 admins, 4 users) for both of them, so it seems to me as if you could "switch them" now.

as you might have seen or heard, i am not able to be as active here as i have been before, personal duties (got a baby son now :) ) reduced my time drastically, thus i will show up here only once or twice a month to have a look. if you want me to withdraw from my admin status, i'd agree, though i believe it might be of use to let me be kind of a "background-admin".

furthermore i'd like you to remember the account of de:Benutzer:(WT-de) Hansm. his edits ended drastically at Nov., 20 2004, nine months ago, let us hope, that he might be still alive and kicking. but it is questionable if his admin-status should still be active, maybe you might think on this.

regards, de:Benutzer:(WT-de) Denisoliver 19:43, 24 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Congratulations on the baby, Denisoliver! That sounds exciting. We've got a baby coming next month; lots of anticipation.

 * As for Steffen M. and DerFussi: according to de:Spezial:Listadmins they're already admins. I think I switched them a week or so ago and noted that on the nominations page.

 * I'd very, very much appreciate it if you can take the time to drop in once in a while to provide experience and mentorship to the de: admins. I think that we have you to thank for so much of the success of that language version, and I'd hate to lose that well-earned experience and knowledge without your presence. --(WT-en) Evan 22:16, 24 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * thanks for your friendly words, evan, and all the best for your baby to come. especially enjoy the first few weeks, they are really astounding. sorry, i haven't seen, that you already switched both, as the nomination-page was still present and de:Project:Administratoren hadn't been changed. regards, 84.60.99.243 08:47, 26 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Hi Evan, thanks for sysoping us last week, but we (me and de:Benutzer:(WT-de) DerFussi) have a problem with this function: we're missing the deleting and the protecting button, so at the moment, there is no possibility to delete or protect a page. Is there a software bug? -- (WT-en) Steffen M. 03:55, 29 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Yes. You have to hand-construct the delete URLs right now. Sorry, but it's an artifact of our caching software. We do deletes and protects so rarely on Wikivoyage, it hasn't been a high priority to fix it. I'll let you know when it's back in order. --(WT-en) Evan 08:48, 29 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Well, this was my tought, too. But I can't find the correct URL, f.e. for my user page:
 * http://de.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Spezial:Delete&target=Benutzer%3ASteffen_M. or
 * http://de.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Spezial:Protectpage&target=Benutzer%3ASteffen_M.
 * What is the correct input? Is there a help page for admins on en.wikivoyage? -- (WT-en) Steffen M. 05:49, 2 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * Evan seems to have temporarily gone missing, so here's a quick answer: so long as you have admin privileges you can click on the history tab of any page, and in the resulting URL just change "action=history" to "action=delete". Note that this only works for articles - for images just use the "Delete all revisions" link from the image page. -- (WT-en) Ryan 23:15, 4 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Your RSS feed is on Planet Wiki now, and how can I wrap up the credits?
Hi! I included your RSS recent changes feed in Planet Wiki, an online news aggregator about wikis. If you have any more RSS feeds or any maximum-hits policy please contact us. BTW: I also use MediaWiki, and I noticed you have made some changes in the page footer where the names of the editors of a page are shown. Could I have the changed code and in which file it is? specifically, if you look at this page on my wiki using Konqueror 3.4.1 and this page from your wiki you will see that you need horizontal scrolling in my wiki to see all the names, but this isn't needed in your wiki because it wraps up. How can I do this on my codebase too? (WT-en) Www.wikinerds.org 05:53, 26 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * If you look at the main Monobook skin CSS file, you'll see that I commented out a line that looks like:

head:first-child+body #footer li { white-space: nowrap; }

 * (I'd like to give credit to the person who figured out that this was the problem... I can't remember who it was, though!) I should probably re-commit that to the MediaWiki codebase, but to be honest I have no idea why it was added in the first place. --(WT-en) Evan 08:51, 29 Jul 2005 (EDT)

California map / SVG download
Thanks for the comments on the California map. Regarding the SVG upload, see my comment in Project:Mapmaking Expedition - there currently seems to be no way to download SVG files once they've been uploaded. I'll upload the SVG files that I've created, and since I'm very new to the whole SVG thing it would be great if someone else could clean up the work I've done, but at present I don't think there is any way for people to utilize these files. -- (WT-en) Wrh2 15:38, 2 Aug 2005 (EDT)

thank you
thank you for your welcome Evan, I hope I can contribute with my humble knowledge and looking forward.. 62.180.164.183 19:08, 9 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Image copyright
I don't understand what I'm seeing on the image history for Image:Compass_star_emblem_coolvetica_logo.png. -- (WT-en) Colin 00:33, 19 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Is this okay?
I worry that the pages like User:(WT-en) Cjensen/project/hotelmaker/California are very harmful to the Wikivoyage CPU. Is this type of thing okay to do? -- (WT-en) Colin 03:39, 21 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * Absolutely. They're supposed to eventually get folded into the city articles, though, right? --(WT-en) Evan 10:00, 21 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * Ok. I was just worried that making the wikimedia engine look up 800 different hyperlinks (to decide what color to paint them) would be bad.  And yes, I'm only putting them up so other folks can make use of them now instead of waiting for me to get around to writing some kind of bot for that. -- (WT-en) Colin 11:34, 21 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Labrador City
It looks like much of User:(WT-en) Melking's contribs were copied. I'm not well right now, so I can't fix it. -- (WT-en) Colin

 * I'll take a look. I think she meant well, but didn't quite understand. As far as I can tell, those are her photographs. --(WT-en) Evan 22:32, 22 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * Some of the text is hers too. -- (WT-en) Colin 22:34, 22 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Redirect
Luang Prapang is one of those messed-up thingies. Also, I seem unable to email you at evan@wikivoyage (bounced on Aug 23 and Aug 19). Did you receive email from me either of those times? -- (WT-en) Colin 16:03, 25 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * OK, I'll take a poke at Luang Prapang. Are you sure about the bounce? I've received a lot of mail at evan@wikivoyage.org in that time. If you're sure, resend to evan.prodromou@gmail.com; that's really rarely down. --(WT-en) Evan 18:26, 25 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Reverted my edit, why?
Hi Evan, you reverted my change to London/South Bank, where I added the 'Design Museum' under Museums and Galleries. Any reason why you've removed this? I'm new to this, I don't want to waste another hour writing a review if it's going to be removed. Cheers. (WT-en) Brixtonian 15.44 26 August 2005, UK

 * Mental sloth on my part; my apologies. I was reviewing edits and reverted the addition of the links to Wikipedia; see Project:links to Wikipedia for the reason why. I missed the Design Museum addition; I've re-instated it. Sorry for the shock, thanks for going back and getting things going again. --(WT-en) Evan 13:31, 26 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Thanks Evan, you've restored my faith! I still learning all the rules. Cheers. (WT-en) Brixtonian 23.00 26 August 2005, UK

Meeting in Montreal
Greetings from Lilongwe, Malawi. I can't access my mail here (bloody firewalls), but am slowly barrelling towards Montreal and on schedule to arrive around 5.9. — please drop me a line by e-mail or the Talk page to arrange a meet-up (assuming Maj-Evan Jr allows). I presume the phone number on your user page is still valid? (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:55, 30 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * Yep, that's the best way to get me at this point. --(WT-en) Evan 10:28, 30 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Drinks at Nick's tonight, Sept. 1
Hey Evan, just wondering if you knew that Dave's leaving our favorite former employer and they're having drinks at Nick's tonight for him. Hope you can make it. Sorry I missed your last day, by the way. I got mixed up about days and thought it was on that Friday. Hope things are going well. Are you a Dad yet? -Tom D.

VFD's needing your attention
Hi Evan, I was trying to clean up some of the older Project:Votes for deletion, but a couple of them need your attention. Specifically Luang Prabang (double redirect) and Template:Foo (linked from your workspace). If we can get those two out of the way I think it should almost be possible to get the VFD page back up-to-date. -- (WT-en) Ryan 21:48, 2 Sep 2005 (EDT)

 * Hi Evan, any update on these two? Currently the VFD page contains only items newer than 14 days, with the exception of the two issues above.  It would be great if we could resolve those. -- (WT-en) Ryan 13:34, 8 Oct 2005 (EDT)

see and do
I have a question, I don't really understnad the difference between 'see' and 'do'. Is a museum something to see or do for instance.

Labour Day
Congrats to the two of you! Best of luck over the coming years familiarizing the new delivery with the goals and non-goals :-) -- (WT-en) Ryan 14:58, 5 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Good luck and be well! -- (WT-en) Colin 20:06, 5 Sep 2005 (EDT)

I'm late, but congrats and good luck! -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 16:18, 14 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Interview request
Hi Evan,

I've emailed you with a request for an interview for a story I'm writing on wikis. Just flagging it here, as well (to demonstrate passing familiarity with the medium.) ;-)

Bart

My attempt at site redesign
Hey Evan, as you might know I've been working on a new skin. It's not really ready yet, but I've set up a mediawiki demo site so people can tell me what's wrong with it that I haven't already noticed. Here are a couple of things that I still want to change:

 * I think the line around the tabs is too dark. I'm going to tone it down to a mid-grey.
 * The logotype should probably get bigger, especially the text part.
 * I don't yet have list icons for Get in, Contact or Stay healthy.
 * There are a couple of odd bugs in the version of mediawiki on Geekhive; the language links don't work and the thing makes too many tabs selected.  These bugs don't exist in the version on Wikivoyage.
 * I haven't started on that JavaScript skin switcher we talked about, but I want to try to get that done so people can have more options.

Anyhow, have a look and let me know if there's anything else that bugs you about it. -- (WT-en) Mark 12:49, 23 Sep 2005 (EDT)

 * I hope I'm not intruding, but I noticed the demo site link and thought I'd jump in. I'm using IE6, by the way.
 * The search box extends out over the copy.
 * The article title does not display correctly. All I can see is the very, bottom of the letters... only barely enough to hazard a guess at what they are.
 * The logo has a blue background, but maybe thats not really up for comment...
 * The table of contents along the right side seems squeezed. By that I mean words are wrapping very often.
 * I dig all of the bullets except the big blue ones for See and Do... they seem to be a little overpowering. Maybe they are just out of line?
 * All in all, though, I think its a great start. And again, I hope I'm not intruding! -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 14:23, 23 Sep 2005 (EDT)
 * All in all, though, I think its a great start. And again, I hope I'm not intruding! -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 14:23, 23 Sep 2005 (EDT)

 * Sorry I forgot to mention: Please look at the demo with Mozilla, Firefox, or Konqueror. Getting the css to work right with IE will require browser detection and some corrections which I'll do later after the design is nailed down. -- (WT-en) Mark

 * The width is fixed, which looks awful. I want it to fill my window (FireFox 1.0.7 and Konqueror 3.4.2) --(WT-en) elgaard 19:52, 25 Sep 2005 (EDT)

 * Me too! So ditto on all the above — I love the themed icons! — but a few more:
 * I don't like the mixed green-blue scheme, at least for the logo itself. The blue-gray version which actually won the contest looks better to my eye.
 * The table of contents should be kept on the left, not shunted off to hide on the right side.
 * There should be more space between headers and content (esp. since there's a lot of, perhaps too much, space in the listings now).
 * Having all links (internal and external) bolded is unnecessarily distracting and non-standard practice. What's wrong with underlining, or at least just coloring them differently? (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:23, 25 Sep 2005 (EDT)

 * I think we should probably move this conversation somewhere else. For now I'm putting it on my talk page. -- (WT-en) Mark 04:34, 26 Sep 2005 (EDT)

My demo thing works again
The Lausanne page at least does. -- (WT-en) Mark 11:16, 5 Oct 2005 (EDT)

 * Very nice. I am happy about the "full" styles. What does 50 and 80 mean?
 * Of course now that you have those small icons for Buy, Eat, etc then District and Contact looks boring in comparison. --(WT-en) elgaard 11:41, 5 Oct 2005 (EDT)

 * As you know I hate the full screen width style, but I figure that folks really want to go blind from looking at full screen texts that I might as well try to figure out a way to placate them. So long as it's not the default.  50 and 80 are character widths for the main column.  Yes they are character based.  If you increase the font size the pixel width of the column increases with it A list apart has been calling this elastic design.

 * Anyhow, we should probably find a better place for this discussion than on Evan's talk page.  I just meant to respond to his pointing out that the demo had stopped working. -- (WT-en) Mark 15:12, 5 Oct 2005 (EDT)

 * And now it's new and improved. I've created a little icon in the upper right corner of the content for toggling between the fixed width layout and the open unfixed layout that some folks seem to prefer. I've got more section icons too. -- (WT-en) Mark 17:03, 6 Oct 2005 (EDT)

external links & BRC
Sorry about my faux pas on the BRC page with external links. We probably don't need to link to the official site from an External Links section now, since the official site is already linked in the article. What do you think? 70.112.19.246 15:41, 12 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Vote to run InterLangBot in the french Wikivoyage
Hi Evan, we've starting a vote to have User:(WT-en) InterLangBot running in the french Wikivoyage. Could you have a look on the script nominations page? Regards. --(WT-en) Quirk 04:01, 28 Oct 2005 (EDT)

 * Done; looks like a good idea. Maybe we should run it on all versions? --(WT-en) Evan 10:11, 31 Oct 2005 (EST)

Take a look at this?
When you get a second, will you take a look at the discussion going on in Project:Articles needing attention? Thanks! -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 13:26, 28 Oct 2005 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
User talk:EvanProdromou/Jun 2004

General
--(WT-en) Nzpcmad 04:13, 5 Jun 2004 (EDT)
 * 1) Evan, refer Colorado - should the National Parks have separate pages? Some of these are currently dead-end. You seem to go that route but others have listed that kind of thing with "typical newbie" comments.
 * 2) For subpages, there doesn't seem to be anything in the help file. To go to a subpage you use a/b but how do you get the <a construct at the top of the subpage b?
 * 3) I want to disambig "Ireland" but when someone says "near Ireland" how do I refer to both "Republic of Ireland" and "Northern Ireland"?

So, my take:

 * 1) Colorado is on the list of Project:articles needing attention. Also, national parks should have their own articles -- see Project:What is an article? for details. Can you let me know who thinks we shouldn't have them?
 * Sorry, National Parks was a bad example. Wineglass Bay is an example. It's not a National Park but a beach. It's listed as needing attention. So it should not have its own page?

 * No, Project:subpages doesn't exist. I'll try to get it started. The "< a" thing should happen automagically. Can you give me an example where it isn't?
 * Tried this. It inserts the link after you save it. I was just looking at the edit page!

 * 1) Well, I'd say that we should either correct the statement "near Ireland" or have a teensy-weensy article for Ireland, the island.
 * Have a look at the disambiguation pages (Special pages/Maintainance). There are two examples there.

I'll try to jump in on the talk pages for these issues.

--(WT-en) Evan 14:31, 5 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Thumbnails
Hi Evan, Thumbnails for image still do not work. Please fix them. (WT-en) Yann 05:47, 7 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * I'll give it a shot. Do you know what it requires? MediaWiki version, external libraries/tools? --(WT-en) Evan 10:09, 7 Jun 2004 (EDT)
 * JeLuF said that the version 1.2.6 is recommended. BTW, MediaWiki messages (i.e. ) do not work either. (WT-en) Yann 17:24, 7 Jun 2004 (EDT)
 * You should use the latest version of the 1.2 series, which is 1.2.6, to get thumbnails and msg's. Or wait a week or two and switch directly to 1.3, which will provide links in thumbnails and a template namespace, separating MediaWiki-messages from user contributed messages. Categories are also added in 1.3. And a lot of bug fixes, as well as wonderful new bugs. -- JeLuF

Wikivoyage mentioned in Linux Magazine
There is an article on Mediawiki in the May edition of Linux Magazine (UK). The article is mostly about setting up the software and how a wiki functions, but Wikivoyage is mentioned in a box with other wikis running the software. (I haven’t seen this mentioned any place else, and I didn't know where else to put it, so I put it here.) (WT-en) Eivind 15:54, 9 Jun 2004 (EDT)

title: User talk:EvanProdromou/Jun 2004


text:
User talk:EvanProdromou/Jun 2005

See also User talk:(WT-en) Evan/Archives

Vandalism policy?
Hi. What is the policy regarding the treatment of vandalism? I have noticed on the Driving in Australia that someone has deleted a load of text and replaced it with a few swear words. Do you want their details before it's rolled back to the last safe version?

 * Not at all. Please feel free to plunge forward when you need to have to deal with unwanted edits. We keep full histories of all articles, so it's relatively easy to review and/or roll back. --(WT-en) Evan 08:37, 17 Jun 2005 (EDT)

reasonable suggestions for spelling?
Hi. In answer to your request, I gave what I consider a reasonable suggestion for spelling. Are you willing to support it? Do you have any comments? 62.121.101.201 15:50, 3 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * I think, first, that you should read through the rather long discussions on Project:Spelling. I think per-article spelling conventions make our guide inconsistent. My opinion on the matter is expressed at the start of that talk page. --(WT-en) Evan 17:37, 3 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Japanese interface file
Greetings — could you sort out the file version mess on Project:LanguageJa.php? This is pretty much the only thing holding back the Japanese Wikivoyage... (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:02, 5 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * I think we're ready to go. So, are you going to be the go-between? --(WT-en) Evan 08:50, 8 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * I'm not all that keen on job (my Japanese isn't up to scratch), but as nobody else seems to have stepped forward I guess I win for default. I'd like to see a tag team for this though: I can happily take care of ja-to-en if somebody else can handle the other direction.

 * And I don't recall opposing go-between reports and activity monitoring, just the shutting down of inactive language versions... (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:07, 8 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * OK, I guess I misunderstood you. Let me know when the language file is ready -- I can set up ja: pretty easily. --(WT-en) Evan 09:24, 8 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * I think Jpatokal and I will split the go-between role. Please see User talk:(WT-en) Paul Richter -- (WT-en) Paul Richter 06:22, 9 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * Great! Paul, if you could just give the interface file a once-over (I've already fixed up the obvious bits), then I think we would be ready to rock.  And after reviewing said file I think the $SITENAME should stay as "Wikivoyage" (in romaji) for now. (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:51, 9 Jun 2005 (EDT)

answers.com
You may be already knowing about http://www.answers.com/ else FYI it is a search engine which search and bring contents from reputed sites like

 * The American Heritage Dictionary
 * The Columbia Electronic Encyclopedia
 * Wikipedia
 * AccuWeather, Inc. More from Weather
 * GuruNet
 * Translations services from WizCom Technologies Ltd.

eg:-
 * http://www.answers.com/london
 * http://www.answers.com/kerala

It is also ranked high in web traffic.

I wonder whether wikivoyage has talked to them about allowing wikivoyage contents on answers.com. If not I think it will be a great idea to have wikivoyage contents on answers.com. May Wikipedia team can help you in that effort.
 * - (WT-en) Bijee 12:39, 15 Jun 2005 (EDT)

ja-wikivoyage
Grrrrrrreat! I've created an account and started work (still a looong ways to go...). A few bugs that should be addressed ASAP:

 * Uploading doesn't work, I get bounced straight back to the upload page when I try.
 * Font size needs to be increased as discussed here.
 * For DMOZ, the Regional URL is.
 * Today's Log should be 今日のログ and it should link to Project:2024年July29日.
 * seems to return -1 on the main page and empty in.

Thanks for setting this up! I'm off to bed now, it's approaching 3 AM on this side of the planet... (WT-en) Jpatokal 14:35, 18 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * Point-by-point: your account is now a sysop account. The Dmoz URL is fixed, and I think Today's Log is fixed, too. The stats I had to update by hand, but hopefully they'll auto-update from now on.

 * I'll see what I can do for font size and upload. I'm not sure what MediaWiki's beef is as far as upload is concerned, but I'll try to debug.

 * Don't forget to post notices on en: when you're ready! --(WT-en) Evan 15:07, 18 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * Uploads are still broken and the font size is still near-illegible. If you can fix these I think ja will be ready to publicize, but it's kind of crippled right now. (The Dmoz links also still appear broken, but this is less important.) (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:44, 18 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * I've sent notes to the ja-expedition-signeruppers, which is why we have a couple of users poking around ja now. And a guess for why uploads are broken: maybe the Japanese Image tag "画像" makes Apache choke...? (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:13, 19 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * One more major bug: search doesn't work, the search string is empty in the results page (問い合わせ "" について、...). (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:10, 19 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * Thanks! That was the clue I needed. It's actually because we used a different string for "Special". Search and Upload seem to be working, now.

 * I'm kind of confused about the font issue. Here's a screenshot from my (Linux, Firefox) browser of Wikivoyage and Wikipedia. I don't find the Wikivoyage one "near illegible", although my Japanese is rusty as hell. Are you seeing a more significant difference on other OSes/browsers? Or is that just not readable?

 * And, yes, Dmoz: links are still broken. I'll continue fiddling with them and see what I can do.

 * Anyways, I twiddled things so text is now at 100% for all Wikivoyage sites, but it looks like Wikipedia-ja actually expands the size of the text to 118%. I've got to figure out how to make that work for ja: only. I've got the feature that stores per-site CSS in the database turned off, and it's going to stay that way. I think I can figure out another way to do it, though. --(WT-en) Evan 11:45, 19 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * Uploads and search work now, thanks! But for the fonts, I see no change in any of the Wikivoyage sites, ja or non-ja.  In my Mozilla on WinXP, plain text is still legible but bold isn't, somebody else was complaining about the same issue on the expedition page. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:57, 19 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * Maybe you should take a look at main.css. The 84% contentSub div is changed to 100%. Like I said, I'm still working on how to make ja text 118% or 120%. In addition, could you please post a screenshot as to what's "illegible"? Because I'm not seeing it, and I need to in order to fix the problem. --(WT-en) Evan 12:07, 19 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * See Image:Screenshot-ja-bold-fonts-too-small.png. The bold typeface of the small fonts in the listings is too small for comfort, note how the strokes blur togehter. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:36, 20 Jun 2005 (EDT)

One more bug: two users have now reported that when they log in and click on "My page" (マイページ), they end up on Ç¹å¥:Mypage, not their actual user page. Ç¹å¥ appears to be a corruption of 特別? I can't replicate this by myself though... (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:36, 20 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * Two more things on the to-do list (it never ends, does it?): I'm still waiting for your list of interface strings to translate, and I'd like to kickstart the country pages by generating them all with a bot. Hans did this at de-wikivoyage with his "LandBot", but the guy seems to be AWOL.  Do you still have the source to the CIA World Factbook generator bot somewhere, and can I get my grubby little hands on it? And speaking of bots, it's also been a long, long time since the InterLangBot was last sent scurrying around...

 * Finally, where's Paul Richter? Haven't seem him around at all since the ja-wikivoyage started, I could use a helping hand...!  If you have his e-mail please drop him a line. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:15, 21 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * Bump. Paul's back from the Yaeyamas (lucky git), but I'm still waiting for the landbot-o-mator. I'd appreciate it if you can just lob me whatever scripts you originally used, I'll work my way from there... (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:08, 4 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Sorry, I don't have them! They disappeared when my laptop was stolen last summer. Maybe mvs will help? --(WT-en) Evan 06:37, 5 Jul 2005 (EDT)

In Canada
I am in Brampton. I will not be coming though Montreal this time. --(WT-en) elgaard 17:04, 24 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * Dang. Well, you know where to find us when you do come through. --(WT-en) Evan 17:05, 24 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Coming to Montreal
Hi Evan,

I noticed you contributed to the FreeCulture.org wiki a while back. I'll be coming to Montreal this week, and wanted to let you know about this event, coming up on July 3. I encourage to stop by if you can :) - 68.210.0.78 00:17, 26 Jun 2005 (EDT)
 * Oh, I bet I should put my name. I'm Gavin. -- 68.210.0.78 00:18, 26 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Deletion in German Wikivoyage
Can anyone delete articles in de:Project:Bitte löschen? At the moment, there is no admin in action and there are still deleting candidates from April. Thanks, 84.182.83.21 11:36, 26 Jun 2005 (EDT) aka de:Benutzer:(WT-de) Steffen M.

 * I think the problem of having no active admins is much more important than having a few undeleted articles. I'll take a poke at them, but I'm not so sure about some. I'll try and comment in English. --(WT-en) Evan 13:09, 26 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Templates for listings in Japanese Wikivoyage
Greetings — I'd appreciate hearing your comments on this. (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:08, 30 Jun 2005 (EDT)

title: User talk:EvanProdromou/Jun 2005


text:
User talk:EvanProdromou/Jun 2006

See also User talk:(WT-en) Evan/Archives

very Important: change my username
Hello Evan, I have a problem with my user name. It is a trade name in Germany (www.travelo.de). I decide this only now. To use Tradmarks without an authorisation is not allowed in Germany. (Don't contact the page) Change me Username from "Travelo" to "cyclist". Me ID-number is the 573.

Thank Yow with kind regards Dirk Schmidt (Smith) Kassel Germany PS: my english ist not the best; but I hope yow understand the problem.

 * OK, it's done. I guess I should probably put out a Project:Requests for username change. --(WT-en) Evan 18:08, 6 June 2006 (EDT)

Watch List Gaps
I'm seeing changes not make my watch list, though credited to me in Recent Changes. Oddly, a minor edit on the same article will appear right after the missing one. I'm having trouble staying logged in from behind the firewall at work, but that isn't affecting this (and is normal on some other sites. (WT-en) OldPine 11:09, 6 June 2006 (EDT)

 * So, you're saying that changes to pages that you've put on your watchlist by clicking the "watch" tab or by ticking the "Watch this page" checkbox when saving a page aren't showing up in Special:Watchlist? --(WT-en) Evan 11:23, 6 June 2006 (EDT)

 * Yes, except the page may have been added to my watchlist through a save because my preferences say to add pages I save, correct? (WT-en) OldPine 11:26, 6 June 2006 (EDT)
 * OH WAIT... it probably was the first change after changing my prefs to do that. Sorry. (WT-en) OldPine 11:28, 6 June 2006 (EDT)

Vandalism
Re: vandalism that's happening on Afghanistan. Should I assume you guys are waiting it out there and there's no need to bring it to your attention? Or is that some kind of test page as it says?

 * No, thanks for bringing it to my attention. In the future, feel free to revert the edits yourself, and also feel free to post on Project:Vandalism in progress. --(WT-en) Evan 13:07, 6 June 2006 (EDT)

Moving bug
I figured out what causes the issue, but it brings up something that you'll probably need to fix. See the Project:Bug reports - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 14:37, 6 June 2006 (EDT)

 * That didn't really explain the problem for me. --(WT-en) Evan 14:40, 6 June 2006 (EDT)
 * No? Did you see my comments? I edited your talk page, before I explained it on bug reports. - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 14:44, 6 June 2006 (EDT)

Mailing list
I was going over old discussions and came across your comments about getting the mailing list up and running. I'd be interested in helping getting this off the ground, however, I noticed that people are unable to sign up for the EN mailing list because everytime I attempt to subscribe I received this notice - "must supply a valid email address." Could you get this fixed so we could get this up and running? - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 16:42, 6 June 2006 (EDT)

No titles in the non-English branches of wikivoyage
I am really wondering the the bug of missing titles in the non-English branches is not yet fixed until today. I think this bug will increase the trouble which is seen by the non-English authors. -- (WT-en) Unger 03:42, 9 June 2006 (EDT)

Categories in this style are really senseless
There is no advantage of using categories in this way. You cannot distinguish between locations, it's just alphabetically. Is there a possibility of using categories for sights and activities? I ask, because (WT-de) User:Mistoffeles began to install "false" categories in some sights and activity descriptions. He used "categories" such as "children", "historic museum", "culture", "fun" and "history", but they are simply articles. Please inform me, if there was a discussion with this issue on en:. Honestly, (WT-en) Steffen M. 06:47, 9 June 2006 (EDT)
 * This looks like an ideal use for tags. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 07:07, 9 June 2006 (EDT)
 * But it's just the same, see Juarez. Articles are categorized, not sights or activities. -- (WT-en) Steffen M. 07:13, 9 June 2006 (EDT)

 * I think that there is value in marking up the subject of an article, like places, sights, and activities. I also think there is value in marking up the article as text: its status, related articles, etc.

 * I'd like to expand Wikivoyage's search so you can find hotels near Cancun with mid-range prices where the staff speaks German. Or aviation museums in California. Or stub articles about towns in Austria. That kind of data organization can either be pre-cooked in categories, or we can store important information in different facets (article is a stub, article is about a town, town is in Austria), and let people search it in new and unexpected ways. I prefer the second.

 * How we use metadata like categories and RDF to make it easier to organize Wikivoyage articles is still a developing point. There's a discussion on Project:Categories and another on Project:RDF. I think that providing detailed and faceted metadata is really important, and I don't think MediaWiki categories are the best way to do it. I've been convinced otherwise on the shared repository, but I'm still not excited about it.

 * Categories are enabled on all Wikivoyage language versions. If you want to experiment with using categories to organize articles, I ask two things: first, that you discuss it and think about it first. Second, that if you use categories, you wrap them in templates so if we want to use more specific RDF-style (or another kind) organization later, we can just change the templates rather than changing every article.

 * So if you want to use categories to organize articles by status (say), then rather than adding, make a Template:Status , and add.

 * If that's not how you want to do things, please bring it up on the aforementioned discussion pages. --(WT-en) Evan 20:12, 9 June 2006 (EDT)

 * I think Steffen's point is that even categories will not serve the purpose that he has in mind. Even categories will classify articles, not individual listings. You yourself had this idea of storing and tagging individual listings at Project:Listings. That is what will solve the problem. I'd really like to see that get off the ground. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 05:46, 11 June 2006 (EDT)

Wikivoyage - Italia
Hi Evan, here I am, I'd like to be go-between for the Italian wikivoyage. I spoke to Sabine, she said she will help me if I'll have problems, but at the moment she has not enough time to spend on wikivoyage. She follows a lot wiktionaryZ.

If there is something more I need to know, please just let me know (in my disc. page plz), I've red the exepedition pages quite well!

Let's start this wikivoyage! :) (WT-en) Dennis 05:38, 11 June 2006 (EDT)

 * Deal! I've finished setting up the it: site, and it's now available for editing. You need to create an account on it: and then I'll make you an admin there. Some other things that need to be done:

 * Contact all the people who signed up for the expedition and let them know that the site is launched (use the "email this user" feature, since it's more likely to get checked).
 * Post a notice on the Project:Logbook and on Project:Project.
 * Start building the infrastructure so new contributors can make new pages. See Project:how to start a new language version for some suggestions.

 * Good luck! I'm excited about this launch. --(WT-en) Evan 15:25, 11 June 2006 (EDT)

 * Great! "DaniloP" is my nickname on the italian version. I'll start doing allthing as fast as possible! thanx!!!! :) (WT-en) Dennis 03:42, 13 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Ok, allright, i see the new tabs. I'll use them carefully. My question now is:

 * Is all the language stuff in the file language.php and nowhere else? I see that the site is not complitely translated, so I though, maybe there was some other file to watch. (WT-en) Dennis 12:33, 13 June 2006 (EDT)

 * Try it:Speciale:Allmessages. You can edit each interface message as an article in the MediaWiki: namespace. For example, you can change the text that appears in the it:Speciale:Recentchanges page with it:MediaWiki:Recentchangestext. Editing these articles is a black art, but you can probably get help from people on it: Wikipedia or here on Wikivoyage if there's something you don't understand. --(WT-en) Evan 13:02, 13 June 2006 (EDT)

 * Ok, cool. Some other things: I see that the voices "Message","Discussion", "Edit," History", "Move", ecc..., the sidebar and the footer are not well translated. Where should I work to correct allthing? (WT-en) Dennis 12:10, 14 June 2006 (EDT) (i'll try to find a reference on mediawiki.org)

 * I usually go to it:Special:Allmessages and search on the page for the English word I want to replace. By doing that, I found it:MediaWiki:Edit, it:MediaWiki:History_short, it:MediaWiki:Move, it:MediaWiki:Talk, it:MediaWiki:Nstab-mediawiki.

 * It may be worth your time to talk to administrative people on it: Wikipedia about this. The Italian Wikipedia allmessages page has a lot of messages we don't seem to have. I can try and import the messages from Italian WP and we can customize from there. --(WT-en) Evan 12:46, 14 June 2006 (EDT)

 * Hello Evan, i'm already working for Italian Wikivoyage. It's exciting to operate in a new project. (WT-en) Luciodem 15:33, 23 June 2006 (EDT)

beyond the usual tourist guide
Evan,

Thank you very much for your comment regarding the efforts to deploy microformats within Wikivoyage. I realized the potential Wikivoyage has as a platform for our project at http://global-culture.org and that's why is listed for good in our blogroll. I stand corrected regarding the lack of structure and am quite pleased with the progress that you have on microformats. I insist, however, that the particular elements of information that we need for our project are not there yet. I will discuss with the other people involved in the project and come back with a few ideas on what we think could work well. To better understand the type of information that we're talking about you may want to read my post on the diffusion of memes and maybe this other one explaining our project.

You'll notice that a very important aspect of our project is the involvement of people who are moving between cities as curators for content, so I'm thinking that if we were to define a few microformats to be deployed across Wikivoyage, we would have a good number of people to do the work. While I was assuming we would do this through blogs mostly, I'm perfectly happy with Wikivoyage being the platform of choice. Let me know if you think this could fly.

Finally, tell me if you're hoping to leverage all this information through some aggregation or search tool. I've been following technorati's microformat search but maybe you've come across others.

juan aka Graffiti Neuronal from Toronto 23:13, 14 June 2006 (EDT)

Bit
Whenever you get around to flipping the admin bit, would you also give me the admin powers on Shared? TVerBeek attempted a speedy delete for me yesterday, but curiously didn't have the admin powers on Shared. Thanks. - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 01:13, 15 June 2006 (EDT)

 * It's done by hand right now. I'll add the two of you. --(WT-en) Evan 04:19, 15 June 2006 (EDT)

 * Thanks. I see some of the super powers, but where's the revert button? That way I don't get tempted with protecting the main page? - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 21:42, 15 June 2006 (EDT)

Shoestring can't delete
Shoestring over at ja: is complaining that he can't delete any articles, he just gets an error message and is bounced to the Main Page. I, on the other hand, can delete the pages with no problems. This started happening back when the DB upgrade messed up quite a few things over at ja:, any chance of you figuring this out? (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:57, 15 June 2006 (EDT)

 * Oh, I thought it had gone away! That's really strange. Is it the same error as on the bug reports page? --(WT-en) Evan 22:06, 15 June 2006 (EDT)

Shared template
Thanks for fixing the template problem on Shared. Sorry about not removing the vfd notice. I thought I had the apostrophe problem fixed and was going to vfd it, because I thought the "dont know" template wouldn't be used. I didn't remove the vfd, because that was about the time I had a small issue with the ac adapter. (In case you don't know - it caught fire. I'm still using it, but I have to hold it together with rubber bands.) - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 23:47, 17 June 2006 (EDT)

Technical request
Hi Evan, allthing is right with Wikivoyage:it. I'd like to use some "if" conditions in the wiki code. I asked in the Italian Wikipedia and they say I have to installa an extension for MediaWiki... This http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/ParserFunctions is the link they gave me. The "if" condition would be great for some templates... maybe is already possible to use it, I tried but I didn't obtain what I wanted: http://it.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Template:Citta. (WT-en) Dennis 17:36, 18 June 2006 (EDT)

 * Hey, Dennis. Feature requests need to go on Project:Feature requests. My understanding of the parser functions extension -- from its authors! -- is that it considerably slows down performance of the server. Is there any way you can work around not having the parser functions? It seems like parameter defaults should work fine for what you're doing. --(WT-en) Evan 17:49, 18 June 2006 (EDT)

 * I'm not big expert. I'd like to crete a common Template for cities. But there could maybe be some cities which don't have something the others have (for ex: the name of their inhabitants). I'd like to make this parametere ("name of inhab.") optional. Is there some other way then the parser funcions, then? (WT-en) Dennis 12:54, 19 June 2006 (EDT)

Tawkerbot
Hi Evan - here's a link to the Wikipedia bot we were talking about today: WikiPedia:User:Tawkerbot2. The vandalism reversions it makes seem to be remarkably accurate and include everything from the "Bob is gay" edits to page blanking (see WikiPedia:Special:Contributions/Tawkerbot2). It also leaves a note on the user page for an author whose change was reverted, and will not revert a change twice when in "calm" mode, which is the default - there is also an "angry" mode. They have a WikiPedia:User:Tawkerbot2/requests page for getting it to run on Wikis other than Wikipedia. I know Maj had some reservations, so maybe the two of you can consider it, and if you think it might be worthwhile you could then open the discussion to the wider Wikivoyage audience in either the Project:Travelers' pub or Project:Feature requests.

Thanks for stopping by today - it was nice to meet you and the family. -- (WT-en) Ryan 20:15, 22 June 2006 (EDT)

Creative Commons
Just saw the Creative Commons article on Wikivoyage. Nice stuff. --(WT-en) Dawnview 00:52, 23 June 2006 (EDT)

Eat tags, Sleep tags
Any chance you could fix these up into MoS format? I'm fixing to go postal with hotels soon, and it Would Be Nice if I could use the new tags. I think there is benefit to the new way, but the downside is that the formatting seems to be in only one person's hands. -- (WT-en) Colin 02:04, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

 * I'm trying to match them up to both the MoS and hCard, and I thought I'd done an OK job. I think the big difference right now is a) there's a spurious linebreak added at the end of the tag, b) you shouldn't have to do the list item by yourself c) the URL is showing up in the output, rather than an auto-numbered link. I'm having some problems tapping into the auto-numbering system, but I think it can work out. Is there something else you're missing? --(WT-en) Evan 10:08, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

 * To me, the failure to mask the URL is a deal-killer. The hotel scraper generates very long urls, and I love having them hidden.  While numbering would be nice, an icon or similar would be an improvement over the long URL.  Also:
 * Italics are not currently possible for the phone number. If I had a wish, it would be that CC1 phone numbers (and other popular CCs) would autoformat for consistency.
 * Fax numbers are put into parens for no apparent reason.
 * Consider the following two entries, one manually formatted to MoS, one using sleepy tags:
 * Silicon Valley/Fremont AmeriSuites, 3101 West Warren Ave, +1 510 623-6000, Fax: +1 510 623-6001,.
 *
 * Don't get me wrong though -- I view these tags as a major improvement since the data is more clearly accessible to any automated parsing. For example, even though I complain about CC1 phone numbers, it's obvious that once in a phone="" field, a bot could alter phone numbers for consistency. -- (WT-en) Colin 22:25, 25 June 2006 (EDT)

While reviewing Singapore's Star nomination, I noticed the following problems:
 * If an address end with an abbreviation like "St.", and there is no phone number or website, you get too many periods:
 *
 * On an eat listing, the hours occur as a semi-sentence of their own, and the first letter should be capitalized.  This requires that the user who types the hours in know how it's going to be formatted, and requires the user to manually add the capitalization.  It would be nice (tm) if you could automatically do the capitalization right.  I think the following two examples should display the same:
 *
 *
 * As you can see from the previous example, it appears you are starting an All-New unordered list for each entry. That's probably not good, but not a priority.
 * We need a page to document these tags. The talk page for the documentation would be a good place for people to drop comments about the tags instead of on your talk page -- (WT-en) Colin 20:23, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

Completely off topic
Can I ask what your first novel is about? Don't ruin the ending in case you finish it and have it published. - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 04:10, 25 June 2006 (EDT)

Polish Wikivoyage
Hello. I'm a user from polish Wiktravel. On polish version of wikivoyage we haven't an active polish administrator. One of this is from 3 months inactive (User:(WT-en) JanSlupski). I'm admin on Polish Wikipedia from 3 years (contributions) and I please a admin flag in polish wikivoyage. (WT-en) Adam Dziura 07:29, 26 June 2006 (EDT)

And, if it is posible the same for me. I'm 58 y. old polish Wikipedia user. I have more 4 thousands edition. I'm a member of Polish Wikimedia Society. Best regards Paweł Drozd, Drozdp on Pl Wikivoyage

 * You both sound eminently qualified for being admins. However, I'd like to know that you're familiar with at least Project:Welcome, Wikipedians and understand that there are some differences between how we do things on Wikivoyage and how they work on Wikipedia. For example, we typically don't protect pages (even the main page), don't do user bans, don't delete articles unless the title is wrong, etc. Categories are rare (although rising) and RDF is used to provide in-page metadata.

 * Is there an equivalent to Project:Administrator nominations and/or Project:Administrators on pl:? I'd love to see this go through some kind of vote rather than deciding it by myself; if you get the nominations system set up, then new admins can be nominated later.

 * Also, it's extremely important to me that there be a go-between for Wikivoyage pl:. The "go-between" is responsible for keeping pl: part of the greater Wikivoyage community -- reporting news, bugs, and feature requests from pl: to en:, and reporting news, downtime, and new technology from everyone to pl:. It requires some commitment, but it's important to keep the site running well. Can either or both of you take over that job from JanSlupski (who only volunteered to do it for a month in the first place)?

 * Finally, what contact do we have with Jan? --(WT-en) Evan 11:16, 26 June 2006 (EDT)

 * First - sorry, my english is not very well ;) I understand differents Wikipedia - Wikivoyage (eg. licensing). I try to understand a RDF (is good think to insert Geo and IsIn to infobox for city or country). I try to convince a polish wikipedia users to dual-licencing (some technical tools in pl.wiki is good for wikivoyage - but not dual-licencing now).
 * I think that better is closed a upload files to en.wikivoyage and redirect to shared. What do you thin about a link to gallery on Wikimedia Commons in articles (or left menu)?
 * I try to create a polish Administrator nominations but active registered users on polish Wikivoyage is 3-4. pl:Project:Administratorzy. But now i waiting a comments about this page in polish Pub.
 * I send an e-mail to JanSlupski in 31 may. Nothing replies. (WT-en) Adam Dziura 14:39, 26 June 2006 (EDT)

 * Don't apologize -- your English is much better than my Polish! :-) Let's do this: make a page like Project:Administrator nominations, with the same rules. I'll say yes (or "tak"!), and we'll ask Jan to comment, too. Then we can get more administrators. --(WT-en) Evan 18:08, 26 June 2006 (EDT)
 * pl:Osoba:Adam Dziura/Brudnopis - can you change this messages on pl:? (WT-en) Adam Dziura 15:28, 29 June 2006 (EDT)

 * Done, except for the travel guide title thing. The English site puts the "X travel guide" on pages that describe a place. The code uses MediaWiki:Xtravelguide, but none of the other language versions use it yet. If you want to add it to Polish, let me know and I'll enable the code. --(WT-en) Evan 16:47, 29 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Hmm... MediaWiki:Xtravelguide add text to html tag ? I think, then users from google (or other search engines) see: Rzym - Wikivoyage - Przewownik turystyczny (en. Rome - Wikivoyage - Travel guide) is better. Wikivoyage isn't a brand known in Poland now. Thanks for other changes :) (WT-en) Adam Dziura 06:34, 30 June 2006 (EDT)

Italian counter
Hi, I have some questions today (Wikivoyage:it): (WT-en) Dennis 13:12, 26 June 2006 (EDT)
 * our counter on the main page says we have -1 articles. Why? What should I edit to get it function?
 * I'd like to translate the page "Special:today's log" (pages name) what can I do?

 * the counter thing is a bug; see Project:Bug reports. It's not possible to change the name of special pages like Special:Todayslog, but you can change the title on the sidebar by editing it:MediaWiki:Portal. --(WT-en) Evan 13:31, 26 June 2006 (EDT)

Mirrors and IB
Did I read somewhere that IB purchased wikivoyage/.org /.net /.com? If they did is the listing of the wikivoyage.net no longer needed on the mirrors page? - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 16:32, 27 June 2006 (EDT)

 * Yeah, we've had .net and .com as well as .org for a long time. The first two currently redirect to .org, so I don't think they count as "mirrors". --(WT-en) Evan 16:36, 27 June 2006 (EDT)

Minor Edit
I think you have the "minor edit" setting enabled. Special:Contributions/(WT-en) Evan. -- (WT-en) Colin 12:31, 30 June 2006 (EDT)

Time format
Hi, when logged in, I see all the things in my UTC+2 time, except for the time associated to the signatures ( ╩~ ). I just posted (here is 19:08) and my signature says 13:08, 30 Giu 2006 (EDT). I'd like really much to change this, because EDT is absolutely not OK for Italy. (WT-en) Dennis 13:14, 30 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Is it possible to set an automatic offset +2 for those who are not logged in? Most of users are Italians, and it would be better if all could see the same time, UTC+2 :)
 * Yes, that's totally possible. Can I ask you to add it as a bug report? It's easier for me to follow that way. --(WT-en) Evan 16:20, 30 June 2006 (EDT)

title: User talk:EvanProdromou/Jun 2006