text:
Talk:Tierra del Fuego

Region Discussion
Ooh this is more complicated - it's divided between Argentina and Chile.

It's an archipelago separated from the mainland by the Strait of Magellan. The eastern part is Argentine, the western part is Chilean. (WT-en) Caroline 13:09, 28 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * I don't believe there is any good reason for us to slavishly follow political boundaries in writing Wikivoyage. If you think visitors to TdF are likely to visit both bits in the same visit, then my suggestion would be to have a single TdF article, and link it to both countries. Obviously we would need something in the article to make sure visitors realise there are two countries involved, but that could just be a para in Understand. -- (WT-en) Chris j wood 13:35, 28 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * I think the article should be at "Tierra del Fuego" and cover both parts of the archipelago. The Argentine province includes las Malvinas and part of Antarctica, which should be described elsewhere. Btw, most non-English languages translate the name, e.g. in Breton it's Douar an Tan. -(WT-en) phma 14:35, 28 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * Agree. Additionally, I think most visitors won't have big problems crossing the border. Either you need a visa for both countries or you need not (the latter is more probable for Western travellers). --(WT-en) EBB 14:29, 28 Jul 2004 (EDT)

This is a tough one. We did something similar with Lake Tahoe. I think it makes sense in some cases to have a region that spans two countries. --(WT-en) Evan 14:52, 28 Jul 2004 (EDT)

After adding new content, I renamed the page from "Tierra del Fuego (Argentina)" to "Tierra del Fuego" and changed all links to it. Hope this is OK... "(WT-en) Bexx 15:03, 5 Oct 2005 (EDT)"

Create as extra-region with two articles
The legacy discussion above in 2005 seems to have left this region as the Argentinian province of 'Tierra del Fuego'.

However as it stands it doesn't acknowledge the existence of the corresponding 'Tierra del Fuego' in Chile : Tierra_del_Fuego_Province,_Chile.

I believe we should create two destination articles for fairness, and make this an extra-region. Any objections? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 10:09, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

 * I am looking to create articles from the following redirects:
 * Tierra del Fuego (Chile)
 * Tierra del Fuego (Argentina)
 * --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:20, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:20, 28 April 2017 (UTC)
 * --Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:20, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item is missing permission
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item is missing permission information and may be deleted: You can see the details at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:52, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Río Grande ciudad.jpg

Ushuaia and Río Grande
I noticed you changed the breadcrumbs of both these articles from Tierra del Fuego to Tierra del Fuego (Argentina), but the latter is a redirect to this page (which is categorised directly under South America. Where should we categorise these two articles (I am guessing this would involve the creation of a separate Argentine Tierra del Fuego article or a possible "Argentine Patagonia and Tierra del Fuego" article)? -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:37, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * IIRC, when I edited Tierra del Fuego (Argentina), I was following WV:Breadcrumb navigation,
 * "If there's a redirect as an isPartOf target, that redirect (and not just the other page to which it is redirected) must have 'isPartOf' to continue the trail."
 * in order to maintain the breadcrumb trail. Then an editor came along and removed the isPartOf in the redirect. I'm not sure if they removed it because I had misinterpreted the policy page and created an invalid breadcrumb trail or because it was simply an unusual situation that they assumed was invalid even though it was perfectly valid.
 * If I had interpreted it correctly, then I would say simply undo this edit to restore the trail.
 * If I had misinterpreted it, then 1) perhaps we should remove that line from the policy page (or rephrase it to make whatever its intention is clearer), and 2) well, I don't know... do you split an article for the sole purpose of making its categorisation easier? Seems like one should write an article covering a topic that makes sense from a traveller's perspective and then have the categorisation/breadcrumbs subservient to that, as opposed to having article topics subservient to categorisation. Brycehughes (talk) 11:37, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
 * AFAIK, we don't really use IsPartOf for redirects, which is likely why that user removed it. I'm not going to lie, I don't mind making this an exception to the rule for geographical reasons (and thus I agree with your last point). Or, if that isn't possible, I'd just move Patagonia (Argentina). SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 11:52, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
 * But yeah, it is quite normal on this site to split things up if something is in two different countries. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 11:53, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Assuming there are some cases where it would be nonsensical to split things up on a per country basis, I'd also assume we have historically had a workaround, and I thought the whole isPartOf-on-redirect was it. You said, "we don't really use IsPartOf for redirects" – why is that? Does it break something? Brycehughes (talk) 12:51, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't know why; it's just never been the case here. Unless it was used before my time here and I wasn't aware of it. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 20:19, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tierra del Fuego


text:
Talk:Tiff

Hello, Thanks for starting an article, but you may want to take a look at our policies and guidelines and Project:What is an article? first. Thanks! (WT-en) Majnoona 11:48, 15 April 2006 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Tiff


text:
Talk:Tiger Leaping Gorge

Tiger Leaping Gorge
An attraction rather than a destination. I have copied the text here to the nearest town, Lijiang, which was the only page linking to this. (WT-en) Pashley 09:59, 9 November 2006 (EST)
 * Is there any chance that this thing could be a multi-day trek, with overnight stays along the way, and therefore possibly defensible as an itinerary? I'm not familiar with it. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 10:08, 9 November 2006 (EST)
 * Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Leaping_Gorge says its only 15 km long. However, according to another site http://www.passplanet.com/china/sw/tiger_lg.htm there are guesthouses on the route. Perhaps it could become an itinerary, but I'd say delete unless someone wants to do that work. (WT-en) Pashley 19:24, 9 November 2006 (EST)
 * Redirect to Lijiang. -- (WT-en) Ryan 17:54, 10 November 2006 (EST)

 * I now realise I was wrong above. This clearly deserves its own article. (WT-en) Pashley 06:53, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

Demands for Money
The description, under Annoyances, of people all over the place constantly asking for money fortunately does not fit with my personal experience in May/June 2011. Perhaps it's changed, or depends on the season, but I hiked the whole thing (and took trips down to the river) and, once on the trail, I had only one encounter in which someone pushed for payment--this was in return for permission to take a photo from a certain ridge. There were maybe two very casual offers for a horse or donkey ride (offers made as they passed by), but that was it. Yes, also btw, some Chinese nationals (on vacation, not locals) looked very concerned when they learned I was hiking it, and they warned me it could be very dangerous. --j. blackmon

title: Talk:Tiger Leaping Gorge


text:
Talk:Tignes

Page Created - Please help add content for Eating - Sleeping - Drinking, as well as thigs to do... (WT-en) Jezarnold 14:43, 19 May 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Tignes


text:
Talk:Tignish

Tignish is situated in the Western part of PEI. It is a rural community. Fishing is one of the main industries, this community boasts a thriving co-op movement. Definitely worth the drive. follow the coastal route, you may be able to sample some sea weed pie. YUM1 YUM1

title: Talk:Tignish


text:
Talk:Tijuana

everything else
The Zona Norte includes the red light district, which need not be highlighted considering the site's policy on sex tourism information. However, the red light district and the main tourist district largely overlap. Do we want to locate the red light district so as to warn tourists about how easy it will be to accidentally stumble onto it if they don't know where it is? - Tim

And also, extreme budget tourists will find the cheapest hotels in this zone. These are reasonably safe, based on what I've read, and so mentioning them might be legitmately helpful to many travellers. But we can hardly recommend these places without explaining what they will be in the middle of if they choose to stay there.

 * So, I think the Project:Sex tourism policy isn't really about blackholing zonas rosas. The point is that it's not really gonna get us towards our goals to list the best houses in the zona rosa, who the best girls are, how to solicit a prostitute, what services to ask for, prices, times, etc.

 * I think if there's non-sex tourism information that can be given, even if it's in the zona rosa, that's not only acceptable but desirable. We're not prudes -- we're just not pimps. B-) --(WT-en) Evan 16:29, 21 Dec 2003 (PST)

 * (For the person who changed rosa to roja in above paragraphs: the name for a legal prostitution area in Mexico is zona rosa.) --(WT-en) Evan 10:18, 19 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Districts?
I'm not sure Tijuana needs districts, what say? 2 of the 4 say in their intro that they're primarily residential... and I'm guessing not much of interest for the traveler. I think Tijuana could, even when it's guide/star quality, be contained on one page (WT-en) - Cacahuate 03:08, 21 February 2007 (EST)

answer to Disticts?
There are thousands of districts here in Tijuana. About fifty pertain to gringo tourists. It looks like Wikivoyage is only concerned with gringo tourists. (WT-en) -Que_me_vale 16:26, 24 February 2010 (WDT)   —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 201.160.230.7 (talk • contribs)

Police in Tijuana
There is no problem with the police in Tijuana. When I visited the city for a week in 2003, I walked all over the town -- including the tourist-trap area and the infamous Zona Norte (North Zone) -- the red light district.

The police didn't bother me at all. The only people I had to watch out for were the wasted Gringos who cross the border to look for trouble.

Tijuanenses as a group are very nice people and the town is interesting and colourful especially if you get away from Revolucion Ave. Hop on local buses...best way to get around.

As long as you treat everyone with respect, you will get ahead. Maybe my experience is biased because I'm a native Spanish speaker, don't act or look like a loudmouth Gringo. (WT-en) StephanieNYC 16:35, 12 March 2007 (EDT)

There is a huge problem with police shake downs as people walk to the border crossing. It's common to be frisked and wallet searched, and to discover later that bills have been removed. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 69.28.102.101 (talk • contribs) 1 May 2007

unnecesary changes
Someone named Dguilllame (or something similar) has been reverting changes made by real Tijuanenses who wish to make this entry accurate. We do not understand Dguillame's issues. The U.S. State Department has not issued a warning about Mexico, only an alert, for which we have identified the appropriate URL. Follow the URL and you will see that Mexico is not under a warning. The alerts are issued with a six-month limit, consequently the new one was confirmed two days ago.

Other edits that we have made, which Dguillame has reverted, have to to with the current state of Tijuana. Dguillame insists on showing businesses that have been closed for five years! WHY?

You ask for locals to help you in this effort and then you insult us. Do not look for more help. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 201.160.230.7 (talk • contribs)

 * The state department warning says that the situation in Tijuana can resemble small unit combat, with automatic weapons, grenades, etc being used. I think the argument over whether this is an alert or a warning is a distraction, and very much on the sidelines of this issue.  --(WT-en) inas 19:31, 24 February 2010 (EST)

 * Considering that the only previous edit I've made to this article in months was removing a section that clearly did not comply with our external links policy, I really have no idea what you're going on about.  Who's insulting who?

 * U.S. State Department terminology is that warnings are for long-term conditions, alerts are short-term. It is incorrect to say that alerts are "less serious" than a warning -- indeed, considering that alerts are generally related to specific dangers rather than broad trends, the reverse is more often true.   -- (WT-en) D. Guillaime 19:48, 24 February 2010 (EST)

Heavily biased article
This article is heavily biased and includes a lot of dubious information. Makes the reader imagine the city as a true battlefield, which it isn't. The "tips" given are also general knowledge which can be used when visiting unsafe places in ANY city, so why include them here? Makes it seem like locals are just looking for ways to steal, cheat and take advantage of tourists.

It's enough to compare this article to the one of any US city (like San Diego, or even a more insecure place) to know that there is bias, unneded information and a lot of subjective details. This does not have the likeness of a true Wikipedia article.

Will try to "fix" this mess.Please be responsible when including personal opinions, biased, uninformed or subjective information about any city.--75.126.219.186 16:31, 21 April 2010 (EDT)

 * If you still feel the same way, I hope you come back and improve the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:03, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Personal anecdote moved from article
Please feel free to extract useful info from this personal account and edit it for proper travel guide style:

From Reader, February 2013:

I spent 5 hours trying to get back from Tijuana to San Diego. February 17, 2013. Another trip in early January was 3-4 hours. The border guards at this checkpoint seem absolutely incompetent. I recommend going to Tecate instead and trying to return there.

Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:03, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tijuana


text:
Talk:Tijuana/Playas

'Playas de Tijuana', or the beaches of Tijuana is a seperate section of Tijuana, geographically and culturally, from downtown where most visitors and tourists go. The beach goes up to the border fence of the U.S.A at the southern corner of San Diego, California, just south of the city of Imperial Beach. While the section of town on the beach is older and more 'classic', the inland and hillside portions are newer and modern with shopping centers and a growing number of residences. On the beach you can find small family restaurants, bars and coffee houses. You can walk up to the fence that seperates Mexico from the U.S.A. and see the border monument. It is directly next to the 'Bullring by the Sea', or the 'Plaza de Toros Monumental' as it is know locally. Bullfights are still held here from May to October.

title: Talk:Tijuana/Playas


text:
Talk:Tikal

which country would you find tikal —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 74.94.211.197 (talk • contribs)
 * Guatemala? - (WT-en) Huttite 09:09, 2 December 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Tikal


text:
Talk:Tilburg

Holy god there's some poor grammar on this page. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 50.101.40.63 (talk • contribs)
 * Plunge forward --(WT-en) Inas 05:33, 6 December 2011 (EST)

title: Talk:Tilburg


text:
Talk:Tillamook State Forest

Jones Creek State Recreation Area
Why not just "Jones Creek"? (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:53, 17 March 2006 (EST)

vfd discussion for Jones Creek
Copied from Project:Votes for deletion:

 * It is something in Oregon, but what is it? Just a creek or a city by that name? --(WT-en) Ravikiran 22:02, 14 March 2006 (EST)
 * According to this link, it's a campground and part of the Oregon state park system. Doubtful whether it qualifies as a destination; content should be merged into an appropriate, larger-scale Oregon article.  Maybe a "Get out" connected with Tillamook? -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 21:54, 16 March 2006 (EST)
 * Move to Tillamook State Forest and place current content under Sleep/Do -- (WT-en) Paul Richter 22:26, 16 March 2006 (EST)
 * We also have a Jones Creek State Recreation Area article, but I can't find that by Googling. I can find Jones Creek Campground, which is in Tillamook State Forest.  I suggest we move Jones Creek State Recreation Area to Tillamook State Forest, and then redirect Jones Creek to Tillamook State Forest. -- (WT-en) Ryan 16:19, 29 March 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Tillamook State Forest


text:
Talk:Tilos

First person story
Originally in the article, moved here for mining. -- (WT-en) Hypatia 10:54, 7 Nov 2004 (EST)

Story
I visited this unspoiled Greek island recently to rediscover the Greece of times past.

As the dawn gently appeared over the horizon during my first morning on Tilos after an absence of nearly a quarter century, I wondered to myself what had changed or remained the same during this time. I decided that the best way to find out was to fold my memories into my overnight bag and venture out with an open mind to explore the body and soul of this island in the Dodecanese.

I began my journey at the port of Livadia on the east side of Tilos which is the main entry point for most visitors to this small, intimate island that is home to 250 residents. As you step onto the dock, the village of Livadia quietly hugs the shore next to the port at the foot of the mountains that shelter Livadia Bay. As you face eastward, the silky silhouette of the mountains of Turkey appear to rise out of the morning sea mist in the distant background while early morning fishermen can be seen guiding their boats out of the harbor before fanning out into the open waters of the Aegean. As your gaze drifts upward to the sky, Agriosykia Castle emerges from the rocky mountaintop to cast its watchful eye over Livadia as it has done unfailingly for the past six hundred years.

As the sun slowly rose, I was captivated by the changing pastel hues of the mountains above Livadia which stood in contrast to the unremarkable architecture prevailing in the village below. There are a few noticeable exceptions which include the gracefully sculpted Italian architecture of the Tilos Police Station building at the port, reminiscent of the Italian domination of the island from 1912 until 1948 at which time the Dodecanese reverted to the modern arms of its maternal Hellenistic past. Another welcome exception can be found dotting the foothills of the mountainside where you will see scattered white, cubed buildings in which small, fully equipped apartments have been constructed and tastefully landscaped with spectacular views overlooking the pristine bay.

Livadia Beach begins its graceful mile-long curve twenty meters from the port, but it will test the reliability of your shoes with pebbles blanketing the shore by the village before gradually refining to sand at its distant end. This slight inconvenience underfoot will not deter enthusiastic beachgoers who enjoy swimming and snorkeling in warm, crystal clear water; breezing along the smooth surface of the protected bay on colorful windsurf boards, canoes and pedaloes easily available for hire; and sunbathing on comfortable lounge chairs that peak out from the welcome shade of tall pine trees scattered along the beach.

When the spirit moves, you can drop into any one of a multitude of small tavernas that overlook the beach or are tucked away in the village, which fulfills the needs of the visitors and local residents with the exception of island banking services that are limited to those offered at the Livadia post office.

The overall feeling I had from the town is one that reflects its recent history. The village of Mikro Horio, established in the 15th century in the hills above Livadia, was abandoned after World War II by its residents, some of whom moved to Livadia to build a new life as business developed around the port. The incongruity of recent building designs and colors in some portions of Livadia reveal the underlying dreams of hard-working people whose visions reflect a commendable self-reliance tainted by a blindness to their cultural heritage and the merits of community coordination. On balance, though, I found a refreshingly relaxed atmosphere in this town with genuinely accommodating residents.

Eager to explore the rest of the island, I took the main road out of town toward the direction of Megalo Horio which is only a ten minute drive (7 km) from Livadia. Visitors can select from a variety of transport options, including a car or scooter available for hire at the port, a surprisingly reliable city bus, or a taxi, all of which are easy to procure. A petrol station is conveniently located on this road halfway between the two villages.

As I wound my way through the mountain, I marveled at the ancient stone walls made centuries ago to corral the animals, the plethora of tiny churches with their ruggedly rustic architecture barely perceptible against the stony hillsides, and the venerable, twisted trunks of windswept oak and olive trees that guard the secrets of the island’s past.

The history of this island, dating back to six million years ago resulting from a territorial separation from the coast of Asia Minor, clearly traces its population back to the Minoan, Mycenaean and Dorian periods between 3,000 BC and 1,000 BC from the artifacts discovered here. But I personally felt the unmistakable presence of the past in the atmosphere surrounding the small churches I visited off the beaten path. Those who enjoy nature walks will find the added bonus of discovering that Tilos is home to two hundred Byzantine era churches scattered throughout the island with as many as forty one still retaining their original frescoes.

While walking on some of the nature trails filled with green and golden hues of unspoiled flora and fauna that abound on this island, the pungent aroma of wild thyme and sage wafting through the air reminded me of the Greek myth explaining the island’s name. According to legend, Tilos was named after the youngest son of Alia and Apollo who collected herbs from the island hoping to cure his mother when she became ill. After her recovery, he returned to the island and established a sanctuary in honor of Apollo and Poseidon in order to express his appreciation.

Continuing on toward the ancient capital of Tilos, I saw ruins of the castle and fortress of Messaria, brimming with life during the 14th and 15th centuries, rising out of the mountain. Beneath it, the cave of Harkadio is the site of recent excavations that surprised paleontologists when the skeletons of pygmy elephants dating back to 4,500 BC. were unearthed. There is an impressive presentation of this discovery in Megalio Horio which is open to visitors free of charge.

Just three kilometers up the road, Megalo Horio begins to unfold like a ruffled white fan against the steep slopes of St. Stefanos hill which is crowned by an ancient castle that dominates the skyline. There is a quiet charm inherent in this village that is built on tradition. Beginning in 1827, some of the ancient ruins were respectfully incorporated into the buildings you see today in which you will find City Hall, the public school and library, the Pygmy Elephant Exhibit, the medical office, and the general grocery store. The adjoining main square offers heavenly dimensions of fragrance and color in this gardener’s paradise filled with plumeria, bougainvillea and roses shaded by trees that overlook the valley and Eristos Bay to the south.

After my visits to the local cafés, I sensed that those islanders who live close to this ancient capital feel strong bonds to their ancestors as reflected in their discussions about family chapels, preservation of the environment, the island hunting ban, the merits of organic farming and the importance of gravesite care. The road between Livadia built on dreams and Megalo Horio built on tradition may physically connect the two towns but it cannot bridge the two different worlds.

From Megalo Horio, the bird’s eye view of the fertile valley below against the cool, blue backdrop of Eristos Bay will tempt any visitor to explore this part of the island. Tilos is gifted with an abundance of natural spring water that enables the cultivation of a dazzling array of fruits, almonds and vegetables. The agricultural sector consists entirely of small family businesses thus creating a comfortable, old world feel to the food you enjoy on Tilos. In springtime, this valley becomes a vibrantly colored canvas brushed with deep reds, swirling yellows, and splashes of blue bursting from the wildflowers that grace this island’s soil.

At the end of this valley lies the most beautiful swimming beach on the island called Eristos Beach. Most of the mile long beach is golden sand inviting beachgoers to sunbathe, swim, snorkel, play volleyball and soccer and take long, dreamy walks along the shore. When fishing enthusiasts get hungry, they barbecue their catch of the day right on the beach using the island’s own lemon juice, olive oil and wild thyme to make a succulent, memorable meal.

Another fine beach on Tilos is a few kilometers north of Megalo Horio at Plaka Bay. Before you reach Plaka, you will come across picturesque St. Antonios Bay with a small port, a thin rocky stretch of uninviting beach, a few hotel rooms and a restaurant. The gravesite with fossilized human skeletons overlooking the bay is noteworthy for its historical value; however, for those with a beach agenda and limited time, continuing to Plaka is recommended.

From Plaka, I continued west along this scenic road with breathtaking views until I reached the monastery of St. Panteleimon that was built in 1470, restored in 1703 and 1824, and expanded in 1843. The palm-leafed entrance opens to a pebbled courtyard that looks like a lush oasis landscaped with flowers, trees, the traditional Greek basil and grapevines. The monastery’s zenith was reached during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries as it printed bank notes used on the island, owned vast tracts of land with animal herds and served as a key economic as well as spiritual center. Today, you will see a walled complex consisting of the courtyard leading to the church whose inspiring, centuries-old frescoes have been restored following the plaster covering by the Turkish occupation, the monks’ quarters adjacent to the church and a tree-filled courtyard on a lower level offering picnic tables for those who bring their own lunches or order at the sandwich hut. There is also a glorious fountain of cool, fresh and delicious spring water gushing continuously at the entrance.

My quiet return to Livadia allowed me the time to reflect upon what had changed or remained the same since my last visit. My memories of monuments had faded over the years but my memories of the warmth and the surprising respect with which I, as a financially strapped student, had been treated by the islanders had remained in my heart. On this journey, I found the island’s natural beauty, tranquility and unspoiled beaches to have remained exactly as I remembered long ago. The preservation and presentation of its historical past have clearly been enhanced. And despite the few islanders sadly swept up in the cyclone of tourism, I prize above all my discovery that the elusive, unspoiled Greece of yesteryear lives in the hearts of most islanders which, for me, is what makes Tilos the real jewel of the Aegean.

Konstantinos Mentzelopoulos

USEFUL INFORMATION:

Office of the Mayor Telephone: +30-224-604-4212 E-mail: DimTilos@otenet.gr Web site: http://www.tilos.gr

Visitor Information /Tilos Natural Park/ Nature Guided Tours: Tilos Park Telephone: +30-224-607-0880 Fax: +30-224-607-0892 E-mail: tilopark@otenet.gr Web site: http://www.tilos-park.org

Police Department Telephone: +30-224-604-4222 Coast Guard/Port Authority Telephone: +30-224-604-4350

Livadia Medical Office/Pharmacy Telephone: +30-224-604-4219 and 607-0884

Livadia Telemedicine Office Web site: http://users.otenet.gr/~timtem/panel.html

Megalo Horio Medical Office/Pharmacy/Ambulance Service Telephone: +30-224-607-0883 and 604-4210

Livadia Greek Postal Service Office Telephone: +30-224-604-4249 Fax: +30-224-604-4130

The Post Office serves as a Savings Bank and provides cash for account holders only through the Greek Postal Savings Society. There is no Bank or ATM machine currently on the island. Some businesses accept certain credit cards.

Telephone Public Company (OTE) Telephone: +30-224-604-4099 Fax: +30-224-604-4299 Mobile telephony is operational on Tilos. Public phones require the use of a prepaid phone card, which can be purchased at the Post Office or at local markets. Public phone booths exist in Aghios Antonios (1), Aghios Panteleimon Monastery (1), Eristos (1), Livadia (3), and Megalo Horio (3). Several stores and cafes host public phones also.

Electricity Public Company (ΔΕΗ) Telephone/Fax: +30-224-604-4218 Electrical appliances must utilize 220V to operate on Tilos.

TRANSPORT:

Tilos Sea Star Telephone: +30-22460-44000 Fax: +30-224-604-4044

In just ninety minutes, the Tilos Sea Star, a high-speed catamaran/hovercraft, can transport you from Rhodes (International Airport) to Tilos.

Konstantinos Mentzelopoulos

Tilos (An almost scientific approach).

The region of Tilos constitutes a relatively isolated island cluster in the southern Dodecanese Islands of Greece in the Aegean Sea.

Tilos is a relatively small island (63 square km) that presents unique features in topography, geology and landscape variety. The main island is characterized by intense bas-relief with autonomous semi-mountainous volumes, numerous bays, dozens of small capes and a plethora of small coastal plains. The main island is surrounded by 14 small islands and several small anonymous rocky islands. Because of the intense bas-relief and the varied geology, there are numerous natural springs that supply a network of small underground rivers of fresh water.

The biotic environment has been shaped by a human presence of long duration and by the geographic isolation of the island. Notwithstanding this long human presence on Tilos, the current ecological physiognomy of the island reflects a notable emigration of island residents in the 1950’s resulting in the abandonment of two village settlements and a significant portion of agricultural cultivation.

Observable evidence indicates that, following this abandonment of agricultural cultivation, natural vegetation reclaimed previously cultivated terraces and an extension of indigenous tree vegetation occurred in certain flat areas. As a result, the island currently supports a wide variety of vegetation. The variety of biotopes as well as the presence of different aviary species is remarkable. Sixteen (16) different types of biotopes recognized by the European Union Community Directive 92/43 have been recorded with three types of biotopes characterized as biotopes of priority for the protection of nature in the European Union. On the island of Tilos and the surrounding islands of Tilos, three hundred seventy-seven (377) native classified units of plants (types and subspecies) have been recorded.

Tilos has a remarkable aviary population. One hundred and two species of birds, of which forty-six (46) species are characterized as requiring protection by special arrangement, have been recorded on the island. Twenty-six (26) strictly protected aviary species have been recorded that are included in the annex of I of the European Union Community Directive 79/409. Certain aviary species, numbering at least eleven (11), maintain important populations on the island. Their presence inherently lends a significant value to the island, and lends a scientific importance with regard to the protection of these species in the southern Aegean. Remarkable are the populations of Phalacrocorax aristotelis, Hieraaetus fasciatus, Buteo rufinus, Falco eleonorae, Falco peregrinus, Laurus audouinii, Coracias garrulus, Hippolais olivetorum and Emberiza caesia. Tilos also maintains one of the densest populations of Islander Partridge in the southern Aegean. This is significant because this species is an important food source for threatened birds of prey. Because of the sixteen-year hunting ban on the island inaugurated in 1987, there is no hunting pressure.

In addition to its aviary importance, the Tilos cluster of islands presents a special scientific interest due to the presence of the Mediterranean Seal and certain species of reptiles that are rare on the European continent because they expand mainly into Asia Minor and Western Asia.

An abundance of natural dwellings and places of refuge, the natural and artificial collections of water (including small wetlands), the rocky protrusions, the isolation of the islands, the natural tree clusters including the recent extension of relatively young thinly forested areas into the abandoned agricultural fields, collectively serve to attract and create a domicile for numerous species of flora and fauna, resulting in cores of biodiversity.

The long duration of human activity on the island has left scattered and appreciable testimonies that are dated from prehistoric times to the recent past. The environment of Tilos presents a mosaic of cultural landscapes where anthropogenic elements are present throughout the island. Such elements primarily consist of the ancient, medieval and recent settlements; two existing, traditional settlements of habitation; various defensive constructions (small castles, fortresses, observatories etc); infrastructure developments (paths, etc.); temples, churches and monasteries; agricultural production and related facilities; livestock-farming and other evidence of human existence. Tilos demonstrates the presence of a complex ecosystem shaped by people where human activities have been harmonized with the natural environment.

The island of Tilos presents particular interest for the protection of nature in Greece. The region has been included in the List of Corine Biotopes Project, as an important region for the protection of nature in the European Union, the list of Important Regions for the Birds of Europe (IBA), and the new list of Areas of Special Protection (SPA), pursuant to the European Union Community Directive 79/409 “for the protection of birds”. Upon completion of the pending administrative procedures in accordance with EU regulations, the region of Tilos is expected to be characterized as an Area of Special Protection and included in the European Ecological Network "Natura 2000".

Compared to the other main islands of the south-eastern Dodecanese, Tilos is more isolated geographically, as much from the Asia Minor coast as from all other big islands (as Kos and Rhodes), resulting in a significant biological and geographical area of interest.

Tilos has many flat areas of land that have been abandoned or are not cultivated intensively. Here, the tree vegetation has been reborn' shaping thin forestry areas with a particular tree indigenous to Asia known as the Gramithia (Pistacia terebinthus palaestina). The resulting evolution of these new landscape areas predominantly populated by the presence of this Asian tree in what may be correctly characterized as “forests” is extremely significant because forested plains have almost disappeared on other islands of the Dodecanese and their presence in the Aegean islands is limited. As a result, these new “forests” on Tilos possess significant value for many aviary species.

According to Annex I of European Union Community Directive 92/43), Tilos is host to sixteen (16) different biotopes, of which three (3) are designated as biotopes of priority for the protection of nature in the European Union. The significance of this finding is that it represents a relatively large number of biotopes for only one island, notwithstanding the fact that the main island and surrounding islands are predominantly covered by one main biotope, i.e. bushes.

Tilos has dozens of small natural fresh water springs that are active during most of the year. Compared to other islands of proportional size in the southern Aegean, Tilos has an abundance of fresh spring water to support its natural landscape.

Tilos currently has a small permanent resident population living in two village settlements. Historically to the present, human activities that could adversely affect the natural environment of Tilos have been very limited.

Tilos has vast expanses of land with indigenous plant and animal life in good condition free from artificial interference. These areas are characterized by difficulty of access (absence of roads) as well as by lack of recent human interventions. These conditions give rise to a particular character that is called wild nature (wilderness). Areas of wild nature exist in significant coastal and abandoned landscapes of the island. The areas of wild nature have particular importance for the birds of prey. Most species of birds of prey nest and hunt in and around the inaccessible, rocky mountains.

Significant regions exist where the harmful effects of human activities on the natural environment have been limited. In some cases, these harmful effects have been obviated or reversed due to the mid-twentieth century population reduction and settlement abandonment, resulting in the progressive recovery of nature in these formerly occupied colonies and the previously cultivated regions visible in the terraced mountainsides. Such natural and semi natural areas exist to a limited extent on the main islands of the Dodecanese as a result of the relatively recent construction of new roads, public and private works, tourist accommodations, and related activities. In Tilos, the natural and semi natural areas contribute a significant ecological value, and they offer nourishing resources and habitat to threatened aviary species that depend on these areas for survival.

Tilos is characterized by the presence of mountains and coastal precipices that are the largest and most extensive in the Dodecanese. The mountains reach an altitude of hundreds of meters above sea level and constitute natural shelters for the threatened species of indigenous fauna and flora.

The structural portions of the ancient and medieval castles, towers, fortresses, stone walls, churches and towers as well as the two recently abandoned settlements contribute a significant ecological value to the natural environment. The stone masonries are important shelters for reptiles and birds, such as the Coracias garrulus that nests in the ruins. Consequently, these cultural and historical monuments of Tilos have been incorporated in the natural landscape of the island.

Tilos offers a significant aviary interest on an international level because of the presence of important populations of protected birds. Twenty-six (26) species of birds found on Tilos are included in Annex I of the European Union Community Directive 79/409 as threatened species.

Particularly important is the marine presence of the Mediterranean Seal recognized worldwide as an endangered species. This mammal has found refuge in the numerous underwater caves around the island.

Finally, the flora of the island consisting of certain rare and endemic types, provides a significant bio-geographic interest.

The geology of Tilos is rich. The Harkadio cavern, in which the fossilized pygmy elephants were discovered along with other ancient artifacts, has been proposed as a Monument of Geological Heritage. Important geological elements also include volcanic turf in the wider region of Messaria, the beach rocks along the seashore of San Antonios bay, and the strata visible along the imposing coastal precipices in the NW and SE parts of the island.

Konstantinos Mentzelopoulos

Redone from template
I've redone the Tilos page according to standard region template, and added the hotel listing and most (leaving out some parts I didn't think appropriate to a travel guide) of the Understand text from the previous version. (WT-en) Sailsetter 15:00, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Tilos


text:
Talk:Timbuktu

What is the correct spelling? Tombouctou / Timbuctu / Timbuktu ...? --(WT-en) Nzpcmad 16:36, 7 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * I've always seen Timbuktu in the US, while working for the UN, and in travel publications. But it sounds like a job for a google search... I found 278,000 for Timbuktu and 31,000 for Tombouctou-- almost all French. I suggest Timbuktu as the article name with redirects from the other two and the intro sentence "Timbuktu, also spelled TOMBOUCTOU" which sounds like the way to go here.. (WT-en) Majnoona 19:16, 7 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * I'd agree with that but Wikipedia uses 'Tombouctou' with redirects from the other ones. --(WT-en) Nzpcmad 21:00, 7 Jul 2004 (EDT)

 * That doesn't really factor, though. --(WT-en) Evan 21:25, 7 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Name change
I moved this page to Timbuktu, since that seems to be the most common English name for this city. --(WT-en) Evan 00:02, 9 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Tour guide lk
Hi, I don't know Wikivoyage's policy advertising lks, but I've had to remove a very useful-looking one from Wikipedia, so I've plonked it here under "Do". Do with as you will. Cheers, JackyR
 * Thanks (uh, I think...) You can check out our external links policy for future reference. In general, we have nothing against linking out to commercial stuff (ie hotels, restaurants) we just want primary sources. So a hotel's website is OK but a booking engine with a page on the hotel is not... (WT-en) Majnoona 12:08, 26 April 2006 (EDT)

Here's the link: 	*Timbuktu Tourism - Local Guide Services I have to say that tour guides are kinda a fuzzy spot. I'll let someone else make the call. (WT-en) Majnoona 12:10, 26 April 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Timbuktu


text:
Talk:Times Square

Merge
It seems pretty clear to me that this should be merged into New York (city)/Theater District. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:46, 24 March 2009 (EDT)

 * Article now redirects to Manhattan/Theater District. (WT-en) Eco84 13:30, 4 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Times Square


text:
Talk:Time zones

The reason for this page is that I thought it would be a good thing to know how much the time difference is between your home country (or the country you're currently staying in) and the place you're going to visit. I'd also like to include the full names of the time zones and their abbreviations (like Central European Time - CET). The problem is that one timezone can have different names in different countries or groups of countries, like Eastern Europe Time - EET and Central Africa Time - CAT which are both UTC+2. Another thing I want to include are the countries/areas with daylight savings time (summer time) in 2004, including dates, etc... (WT-en) DhDh 18:00, 22 Nov 2003 (PST)

 * Hmm. Being everything-in-one-easy-place guy, B-) my feeling is that time zone information should be included in the country and possibly region pages (if there's more than one time zone in the country). Just as, if I were going to Mexico, I shouldn't have to save or print a list of all long-distance phone codes just to find the phone code for Mexico, I shouldn't have to save or print all the time zones just to know the time zone in Cancun.

That said, I think this makes a valuable reference for folks doing country and region pages, so they say things like:

 * Quebec is in the Eastern Time Zone, five hours behind UTC in winter and four hours behind in summer.

Does that make any sense? -- (WT-en) Evan 19:34, 22 Nov 2003 (PST)

That does make sense. I didn't intend this page to be a "regular" one, but rather a kind of index page for general reference. I'm thinking of the sort of thing you find in guides about travel in general rather than guides about a particular destination. I do think such index pages can have their value, even if it is only to compare different destinations with one another. I have ideas for other "index pages" or "charts", such as vaccinations (see Iamat for an example), currencies, weather (Global weather guide), etc... Anyway, before I tackle one of those I'll continue with this one. If it's going to be used, good -- if not, we can always delete it. Your thoughts? (WT-en) DhDh 05:37, 23 Nov 2003 (PST)

I think the quick facts section should include the UTC offset. This page is useful also, but it might be a bit painful to keep them syncronised - although I guess that's the advantage of a wiki - anybody finding the inconsistency can update it. --(WT-en) Caffeine 10:38, 30 Jan 2004 (EST)

Daylight saving time is interesting. The date of changes varies. EU - last sunday in March, last Sunday in October. US - first sunday in April, last sunday in October. According to http://www.timeanddate.com/time/dst2004a.html some change as early as February. I think this sort of stuff probably belongs in the country article however. (WT-en) Caroline 16:43, 31 Jul 2004 (EDT)

This article needs a more complete description of Indiana's insane timekeeping (there are three timezone/dst combinations in Indiana). WikiPedia:Daylight savings time -- (WT-en) Colin 17:00, 31 Jul 2004 (EDT)
 * But does that belong here or in Indiana? I think that belongs in the Indiana article. (WT-en) Caroline 17:29, 31 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Hmmm, I have an idea that agrees with my generalized laziness. Servers have pretty good timezone management utilities and nice geeks who make sure they keep in sync with the world. All the pages here are generated on the fly, but can be cached which means you cannot put a "This is the current time in this Country/Region/City" display on a page because a cached page would be wrong, but I think you could get the current UTC offset. The server nicely takes care of Daylight Saving Time concepts. Best thing is it can be automated if the database held the timezone for each country, if someone could code it, if someone would put it on the page template, if, if, if. But once done, it's done!! --(WT-en) Richard 2005 Jan 17 10:19 (XXX) -(800)

Countries in several time zones, addition to Understand section?
Our Land Down Under and Canada articles have a section in their Understand section listing which time zones are used in which parts of the country. Is there any particular reason for why we don't have it in articles for other countries spanning several time zones? It would be useful for at least the USA and Russia articles, countries spanning even more time zones. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:28, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Missing out time zones for USA and Russia seem like obvious omissions, and certainly would represent useful information. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 10:32, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * How about the opposite case? Countries that should span several time-zones but don't? I can only think of China as an example, but the same is true for Europe in a sense, as there is no good reason for Spain to be on the time of Görlitz and Britain to be on a different time from France (apart from, well... Britain being Britain). Of course not having to change your clock makes it easier for most travelers, but a 4 am sunrise or a 4 pm sunset are things travelers should be aware of imho Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:57, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * The whole thing is a mess of special cases, from Blanc Sablon being on a different time zone from its neighbours to Lloydminster being entirely on Alberta time to bits of Florida using Central Time when the Eastern time zone stretches as far west as Thunder Bay. Then there's Saskatchewan and Arizona being DST-free zones, along with a few individual communities in northwestern Ontario. Certainly, Alaska should be several time zones (but, largely, is not). Good luck finding them all... K7L (talk) 14:43, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * So we should mention them in the country region and city pages, correct?Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:47, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * If we end up with Saint-Pierre-et-Miquelon on Brazilian Standard Time (BRST, GMT-3) year-round or some such weirdness, yes, some of these are small enough to be addressed locally. K7L (talk) 14:51, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I too think there should be a general description in the country articles and the exceptional towns and islands etc. (that prove the rule?) can be singled out at a lower level. Also, it's maybe not needed to list things like Wake Island.
 * For countries that should span several time zones but do not, like China or India, or simply insane examples (Vardø and Vigo with over 40° between them but both at CET); yes it can be mentioned that it's silly. Nevertheless, as a traveler there's nothing you can do but turn your watch to the time locals follow. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:42, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Traveller's clock
I know this might be a little controversial, but i decided to give it a try. How about we add a clock face depicting the timeline of each country article? Hopefully, this would help the many few who visit this site.  Arep   Ticous                                                    15:59, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

 * Yeah, no. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:15, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Arepticous, I don't understand what you mean by "timeline" here. Can you explain, or illustrate what you are proposing? Ground Zero (talk) 16:44, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * My first reaction is that it probably doesn't sound like something I'd want to see in each country article, but as per Ground Zero, until I know why you want to do this and what the clock would depict and look like, I can't really pass judgment on the proposal. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:45, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Timeline of the article? Do you mean the article history? It's just a click away in the "View history" tab. --Ypsilon (talk) 18:53, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Do you mean time zone? If so, I could see the argument for putting the time zone at the top of each country article. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 19:17, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * They used to be, when the quickbox was part of the le(a)d(e). But now it's in Understand. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:20, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * That works only when there's just one time zone in a given country. What would we do with Russia? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:22, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Exactly. I guess we could show a range, somehow? The idea [My interpretation of Arepticous] doesn't on the whole seem worth it, to me. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 19:25, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * We don't know that is the idea, until Arepticous clarifies, to be fair.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 20:27, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I've adjusted my comment accordingly. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 20:28, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

A clockface is circular, since the time repeats every day, but a timeline is linear (what happened 3,000 years ago won't happen again). As said above, there isn't enough information in the proposal to truly judge its worth but on the face of it, it doesn't make sense nor would it probably add value. Gizza ( roam ) 21:55, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * True. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 22:00, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * sorry for replying late, I am suggesting that each country article will have any sort of clock which displays the time. For example... the time in New york is 7:30 AM and in Sri Lanka it is exactly five PM. And yes... By time line i meant time zone not the one related to history (Misuse of words :-)-)   Arep   Ticous  11:31, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Knowing what time it is belongs in the Captain Obvious department. Philaweb (talk) 12:20, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't agree it's obvious - at all. Despite being aware that east = later, and west = earlier, I don't know what time it is anywhere else in the world right now, aside from near parts of Europe. On the other hand, why does the traveller need to know what time it is right now in a destination they're reading about? I suppose it could be useful for phoning and emailing places of interest and businesses etc. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:58, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * It is quite obvious to me what the time is where I am, when I am there. I do not need to read Wikivoyage to find out what the time is. It is also obvious to me that most clocks in airports, ports and railway stations will show the local time when I arrive - I do not need Wikivoyage to tell me the obvious. Finally, most online electronics will update correct date and time when connected. Philaweb (talk) 15:37, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * And also to fix their watches to the right time.  Arep   Ticous   13:04, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * But users don't need to know the current time in whatever destination they're reading about. They're not there yet. Arepticous, I'm going to give you the same advice I gave you on your talk page. Focus on adding content to articles in mainspace rather than wasting your time with proposals like this that aren't going to go anywhere. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 13:55, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I might also add that the infoboxes in the country articles already have information about the time zones. When a country spans several time zones, there's usually even a section in Understand explaining which time zone covers which parts of the country (e.g. United States of America). And when you actually arrive at the destination, there are clocks at the airport, railway station, bus station etc. and when you land after a flight across time zones, they often tell you "ladies and gentlemen, welcome to X, local time is XXXX..." and if I remember correctly, if it has been an overnight flight even the day and date. Ypsilon (talk) 14:30, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * If the proposal is a clock that tells the current time (i.e., the time of day when I read the article), it won't work for technological reasons. Everyone sees the same copy of the page, so the clock would only show the local time at the time that the page was last edited.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:15, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Do not see a need. My smart phone displays in standby mode the local time and my home (base) time. The World Clock app on my laptop shows the current time of all the locations of people I work with during the day. The Last time I woke up in a hotel and had to go and ask the receptionist what the local time was, was a good 15 or more years ago. --Traveler100 (talk) 15:50, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but i thought that this might be helpful for readers. I was thinking of something like the   template from wikipedia |wikipedia.. I thought that this might help the user recognize the time zone he/she is in. Yes... it would be displaying local time of the country.  Arep   Ticous   17:16, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * That's fine and dandy. But listen. You got indefbanned at Wikipedia because of this kind of thing — because you kept trying to bite off more than you could chew without enough experience under your belt, and eventually it became disruptive. And I'm trying like hell to help prevent the same thing happening to you here. So please just take my advice before you get yourself into trouble, because I think you have the makings of a good contributor if you would just slow down and take your time to learn the ropes. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:30, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I know i said this many times before screwing up... but i can assure you that this time, i have surely understood, and will keep my activities balanced and helpful for this site.   Arep   Ticous                                                    17:51, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Hopefully so. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:57, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry to jump in so late, but I think we can give an overview of times zones in articles about large countries, and state the time zone for small countries that have only one time zone, which we already do in many articles. But I don't think we need a clock that tells the current time. Conference calls with people in different time zones goes beyond our scope, and every time I've been on a flight, they always announce the local time at the destination, so people aren't realistically going to refer to WV for that. The dog2 (talk) 19:28, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

 * In future, let's help Arepticous to be a better contributor by not paying too much attention to ideas like this one. I'll do my best to keep out myself in future. Agreed? --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 20:35, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * When I am planning a trip, I occasionally find that I have to phone the destination to make reservations, as not everything can be booked online. However these days this is rare - for my last 3 week trip I only had to book one shuttle bus by phone. A destination clock could be a small help, but implementing this would be a massive job - this is not something that we should do unless we could be 100% sure that it was always correct in every country and the WP Digital Clock template doesn't appear to be used on any articles. If I want to check the time somewhere I use world time server. AlasdairW (talk) 21:14, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks  Arep   Ticous                                                    09:55, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Time zones
If a country has several time zones for different regions (like Canada, Russia or the United States of America), should we mention the time zone for different regions? Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 03:50, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

 * For instance, New England, Mid-Atlantic, most of Florida, and the eastern sections of the Midwest and the South observe the Eastern Standard Time (EST), but I found no information regarding the zone in the respective regions. This is somewhat problematic for the Americans who travel from the west coast to the east coast and need to change their watches there. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 03:55, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

 * Sure. It can be added to "Understand". Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:00, 27 February 2024 (UTC)

 * you can take a look at Broken Hill on how to cover timezones. Broken Hill is a town in the Australian state of New South Wales but is on the western end of the state away from most of the population, and instead has the same timezone as South Australia. Gizza ( roam ) 04:27, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * You may want to also mention "Daylight Savings Time", noting any localities that differ from neighboring regions (for example, Arizona). Mrkstvns (talk) 13:57, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Should the time zone containing the capital be bolded or otherwise prominently marked, for countries and other political entities? JsfasdF252 (talk) 21:00, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * For the small minority of countries with multiple timezones, you mean? I don't think so.  The capital city isn't necessarily the place that the traveler cares about.  If you have a section like New South Wales or a list, then you might mention that as part of the description of each time zone.  "Some Region, which is where Capital City and the beaches are, uses UTC" is easier for the reader to understand than just "Some Region uses UTC". WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:38, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Time zones


text:
Talk:Timișoara

This company may be able to help travellers Discover Timisoara

Pagebanner replacement
WikiVoyage should definitely fix this issue on every page where it's banner is a cropped image of a picture that isn't even a panorama. Nothing is clear on the old banner while the new one provides a quick view on the symbol of Timisoara. Keep in mind that the original picture was found on a blog that doesn't have an author specified. Jankela121 (talk) 13:33, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Your page banner suggestion is clearly far better, but again I emphasize that it would be best if you uploaded your pictures to Wikimedia Commons (commons.wikimedia.org) rather than here. Thanks. --Comment by  Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 13:40, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Yeah I did make a mistake with that a few times, but not this time. Click on the image and you'll see it's from WikiMedia Commons. Jankela121 (talk) 13:52, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I see. I'm very sorry I made that mistake and thought you had still uploaded it locally. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 13:54, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * However, I'm noticing on Commons a warning about the licensing information. I think you'll need to add that. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 13:55, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Fixed Jankela121 (talk) 15:51, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry to be so picky, because it's good to see that you've added the license information, but is that your blog? Otherwise, I don't see how you could know the original picture was licensed with Commons 4.0 International. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 16:10, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * That's a beautiful banner! By all means replace the current one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:59, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The new banner is much better-looking, and I wish I could support it, but the image is surely a copyvio? It doesn't matter whether the author is specified or not, that photo does not belong to you, and its author has not licensed its use under our Creative Commons licence. Do they even know their photo has been uploaded to Commons?--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:18, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * If it's copyright violation, please remove it from Commons and from your (?) blog, Jankela121! Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:07, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * The blog isn't Jankela121's, see above: "the original picture was found on a blog that doesn't have an author specified." --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:41, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for deleting that non-free image. If there are any others you'd like us to consider, let us know. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:45, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Sorry I didn't know the proposal had to be discussed here first. The actual banner is taken from a photo of a church that tourists do not get to see, not being in the center. The proposed banner is extracted from the facade of the Palace of Culture in Timișoara, the main objective of Timișoara, the European Capital of Culture in 2021. This banner is much more appropriate for the purpose of the Wikivoyage project. --Turbojet (talk) 10:27, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * New banner proposal

 * No worries, there's no way you could have known.
 * Honestly, I don't like either banner much. I do agree that your proposal is better than the current one; it's both more appropriate and a better photo. But, it's not brilliant: it's a little flat, and the posters are ugly. It it's just between these two, I'd support changing to yours, but if you have any other ideas, even different photos of the Palace of Culture, they would be worth considering.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:35, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * What do you think? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:38, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I prefer the proposed banner, although in the majority of cases I prefer to have the whole building, or at least most of it, in the banner if possible. But still I like this banner more than the current one. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 11:08, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the proposed new banner is much better than the existing one. Let's make the change unless someone objects within a couple of days or so. Ikan Kekek (talk)
 * Thanks to everyone for the replies. Unfortunately, as you can see in the image from which it was extracted, that space has always been occupied by posters, there are practically no images without posters. There are no good Timișoara panoramas for banners. Timisoara has developed a lot in the last century, many buildings are new. In Romania there is no freedom of panorama, it is very difficult to find significant free images. Another argument is that from the balcony of the building in the image, the fall of communism in Romania was proclaimed in 1989. The image of the palace is the most famous image of the Timișoara in the world. As a resident of Timișoara, I don't know if there is a more significant one. The only comparable symbol is the Metropolitan Orthodox Cathedral, but its architect died in 1962, so his images are not free.

 * One could also design a banner based on the images of Victory Square . Although in Romania, unlike the images of individual buildings, the photos of the buildings ensembles are not protected by law, at Commons it is very difficult to be accepted this. The slogan "No FOP in Romania" gives the opportunity to all admins (Jim, Túrelio, etc.) to prove that they have activity, deleting. As an OTRS volunteer I tell you that this banner is one of the few possibilities. That's why I say accept the banner as it is. --Turbojet (talk) 11:18, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

 * You make a good argument. Lack of FOP is a nonsense law since nobody owns the photons bouncing around the planet, but we have to grit our teeth and accept it. I'll definitely support the proposed banner.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:15, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It's been a while since I made my last banner discussion update! Thank you for bringing me back here. Now about the banner... Of course I don't like it. It's a cropped picture. I do understand the choice since there are no images that fits the banner ratio and has a copyright policy that says we can do whatever we want to the photo. I think we should keep searching for the image that fits the ratio. We should be looking for panorama-like photos since we don't seem to have other options or ideas for now. If the panorama image gets rejected, we will stick with the Palace of Culture, but with a few modifications I added to it. The copyright policy of that iamge clearly says I can "remix" it so I did this. Jankela121 (talk) 21:54, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

 * Now here's an image that could look good for a page banner even cropped: Jankela121 (talk) 21:54, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

 * Looks even better when brightened up. Jankela121 (talk) 21:54, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

 * No, actually I like the darker image. The best edit to make would be changing the rotation, which can be done with Croptool. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 22:21, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree with you. The overbrightened version looks bad, IMO. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:24, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Red Horizons :) Timisoara tries to delimit itself from the communist symbols, including the excess of red color. --Turbojet (talk) 09:03, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

Alternative image of opera, by night. --Turbojet (talk) 08:00, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I think I like the opera house by day banner better. I find the banner with the playbills cloned out strange, and it's also not very helpful to travellers if it's a view they will never see. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:41, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
 * This is the display space of the opera / theater. Something is always displayed there. This is the image that is always seen. --Turbojet (talk) 08:06, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Right. So let's not use a photo that includes no playbills. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:00, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok. I accept your point. --Turbojet (talk) 06:25, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

How about this colourful view of Piața Unirii and the Catholic cathedral? The current banner should definitely be replaced, as it is neither representative nor appealing. --RJFF (talk) 14:56, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I prefer the opera house. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:55, 2 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I like the colorful one. The architecture on the windows really stands out. Jankela121 (talk) 14:35, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

 * I prefer the Piața Unirii picture. The opera one is a bit garish, but it would be my second choice ahead of the other. I agree with a comment above that the Metropolitan Cathedral is important (it's what I remember most from Timișoara), and suggest that we put this picture alongside the lead paragraph. It's the best I could find in the Wikimedia Commons. Ground Zero (talk) 17:23, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I've kind of lost track of this conversation (my fault), but I prefer the banner proposed by RJFF.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:24, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I made something similar to what RJFF proposed. Buildings are not cropped (most of them). While Piata Uniri is iconic for Timisoara, I feel like the banner should have the Orthodox Cathedral, but no photo on WikiMedia Commons was taken from that perspective that catches all of those attractions. Jankela121 (talk) 14:24, 2 August 2020 (UTC) Timisoara Romania WV Banner 1.jpg
 * I'll change my vote to this one. Thanks, Ground Zero (talk) 14:26, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * That's very nice. In-page mockup here.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 15:09, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * This newest banner is the nicest. Thank you, Jankela121. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:02, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed; that is a really nice picture. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 18:10, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:47, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Catedrala Mitropolitana "Sf. Trei Ierarhi" Timisoara.jpg
 * Catedrala Mitropolitana din Timisoara.jpg

title: Talk:Timișoara


text:
Talk:Timucuan Ecological and Historic Preserve

Comments
Before I launch myself into this, I want to gain consensus that it is an article. I don't see any opportunity to legally sleep in Timucuan. On the other hand, it is a complex destination perhaps not easily covered in the Jacksonville article. (WT-en) OldPine 15:42, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

 * There have been similar discussions with Chimney Rock National Historic Site and others. I think that the final consensus was that if you can sleep there it gets its own article.  If you can't sleep there then there should be the possibility that the article can become at least "usable" status.  I don't know anything about this particular preserve, but if that possibility exists then having its own article should be fine. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 15:48, 6 September 2008 (EDT)


text:
Talk:Tin City

This doesn't sound like an actual city. Should this be a listing in Naples (Florida)? --(WT-en) Evan 01:26, 13 Jan 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Tin City


text:
Talk:Tinsukia

Edits
First of all, I want those of you who have contributed content to this article to know that I appreciate your contributions. It's because of people like you - and certainly not a mere editor of this article like me - that guides like this one exist.

I edited some of the content to move it to the appropriate sections and edit it into a form that reads more clearly to me. I may have misunderstood some of the content. Also, I feel bad that I deleted some references to neighboring towns like Digboi and Dibrugarh, which I think should be covered in their own guides, if anyone wants to start articles for them; in that instance, some of the content I deleted should be included.

I hope no-one feels discouraged by the edits I did, and I hope you continue to contribute content to this site.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 03:23, 25 May 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Tinsukia


text:
Talk:Pulau Tioman

I deleted the reference to a (direct) ferry to/from Singapore. The operator (Penguin) states they have discontinued it & have no plans to recommence.

Name
The Getty Thesaurus gives the name of this island as Pulau Tioman, without "Tioman Island" or "Tioman" as alternatives. Same with Geonet. --(WT-en) Evan 23:58, 29 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * I've been there, refer to it as Tioman, and recall being told by locals (in Singapore) that I should "go to Tioman". I think that the other names should be used as redirects, but Tioman meets the "most common" criteria. -- (WT-en) Ryan 00:06, 30 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * "Pulau" is Malay for "Island". As there is no other Tioman than the island, it's rather redundant, and as Ryan notes it's not used in everyday speech. (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:22, 31 Jan 2006 (EST)

Status
I think the article deserves to be more than an outline by now. Since I am a newbie wikivoyager, I'll leave this change to someone else - perhaps JPatokal wants to do this?

 * Excellent work! This is definitely at least "usable" now, and the only thing missing to make it a "guide" is some listings for places to eat.  Contact info etc for the budget operations would also be useful. (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:15, 4 April 2006 (EDT)

Water taxi prices
Is that really 50 RM for a water taxi ride!? On eg. the Perhentians to the north the standard short hop fare is 5 RM/person! (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:17, 4 April 2006 (EDT)

 * Yes, they are insane. They know, that the only way to go from a to b is the watertaxi, or the jungle-trecks. There was a waterbus once, which had a schedule around the island, but neither I nor other travellers have found it. Interestingly a trip around the island, with stops at some beaches and the waterfalls in the south is about RM 70. Anyways, it is always possible, that they were kidding me - I never really intended to take one of the watertaxis.. I can confirm this in a couple of days, since some of my friends will go to Tioman soon.

 * So be it - confirmed. Prices are insane. But at least a couple of people can share the fare.

Japamala Resort photo
How do you all feel about this as a problematically promotional photo? I think the photo is beautiful and I want it to remain in this article, but I'm not sure the resort should be identified by name in the caption. What do you think? Is this a problem or not? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 00:04, 22 November 2011 (EST)

title: Talk:Pulau Tioman


text:
Talk:Tioman Island

It's not OK to copy articles from Wikipedia. We have an incompatible license; see Project:Copyleft and Project:Why Wikivoyage isn't GFDL for details. --(WT-en) Evan 03:43, 1 Feb 2004 (EST)

 * It is OK to copy articles and images you are the sole author of. Fuzheado said that he's the only author of WikiPedia:Tioman Island, so I apologize for being quick on the copyright draw. It may be a good idea to put a note on the talk page to that effect in the future, though. --(WT-en) Evan 14:17, 1 Feb 2004 (EST)

title: Talk:Tioman Island