text:
Talk:Jakarta/North

The head of the district is not a 'major' but a 'mayor'. A major is a military rank.

Pulau Seribu
Pulau Seribu is now a(n) (administration) regency since a few years ago. (WT-en) Dhio270599 00:50, 12 July 2012 (EDT)

title: Talk:Jakarta/North


text:
Talk:Jalandhar

Possible Advt?
Regent Hotel seems like an advt...
 * removing--(WT-en) gopal1035 08:10, 31 August 2007 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Jalandhar


text:
Talk:Jaldapara National Park

More information, please
Those visiting Jaldapara may please put in more information, eg. Hotels at Madarihat with their telephone numbers, sites visited inside the sanctuary under "See", and other information they deem suitable for future visitors. This site needs constant updating. -- (WT-en) P.K.Niyogi 11:55, 23 October 2006 (EDT)

Moved from article
I'm not sure what to do with this. It was in "Area landmarks" in "Get around", the section that's supposed to be about how to move around Jaldapara. If you can find a good place for it, go ahead:

Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:28, 17 March 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jaldapara National Park


text:
Talk:Jamaica

nice page I resently discovered it, but you seem to have left out or maybe I missed it, and thats the music

sticking it
Sticking this here till I know where to put it:
 * Wide selection of luxury villas and charming cottages at Silver Sands, Duncans, Trelawny. On-line availability. http://www.silver-sands.com
 * A great friend, translator/Patois instructor and driver can be found working on the beaches frequented by tourists. They are professionals who assist tourists in enjoying the beach.  They will get drinks and snacks from the snack bars; rent small and larger watercraft - glass bottom boat trips, jet-ski rentals etc.; set up parasailing adventures and many other diversions, and they will guard your gear for you while you swim.

They are polite, well-dressed, intelligent and kind; they are gentlemen. They know their island like the backs of their hands, and the best routes to take everywhere every time.

They know the local fishermen, and they will arrange snorkeling and/or scuba diving trips to places without crowds of fellow water-lovers. The only crowds one sees there are exotic, brightly-colored fish.

Such gentlemen will also know exactly where to shop to find anything you require, and at the best prices. They always know the fairest price for everything, including their own services.
 * I opt for deletion. It's basically dribel, isn't it? Nice work cleaning that article, maj. keep going! But why don't you keep those short descriptions of the cities? What's your reasoning? --(WT-en) Ront 14:43, 23 Jan 2006 (EST)

Regions
I suggest we use the traditional counties to divide Jamaica into three simple travel bites. See. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 04:45, 4 May 2010 (EDT)
 * I think the three regions are fine for Jamaica. I tried to clean up the main article a while ago so just plunge forward. Most edits are done by touts... (WT-en) jan 04:54, 4 May 2010 (EDT)

Understand
I see that the gross cut-and-paste job from Wikipedia is duly cited at the end of the article, but there's another issue: I don't believe that so much encyclopedic minutia is needed or good for the article. It would be a lot better if the information in at least the "Flora and fauna" subsection (if not possibly also the "History" section) were summarized than quoted in full. Don't you all agree? Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:52, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Get your teeth into it, Ikan Kekek! (But please remember to use Jamaican English. If this is a problem, just get stuck in and someone can always localise it later...) --W. Franke-mailtalk 13:10, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Not sure when I'll have time (maybe within a few days). I don't know Jamaican English that well (I'm not sure listening to Bob Marley counts), but I surely can use British spellings without much trouble. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:11, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Unambiguous currency notation
With this edit I have made a large number of changes today.

It's great that Jamaica has been getting a lot of high spending visitors from the US and Canada and our article already noted the variety of currency notations used locally and the risk of confusion between USD and JMD.

I've followed the current advice at Currency in using our standard notation of prefixing the Jamaican dollar currency amount with the three letter ISO 4217 code of JMD for the Jamaican dollar in block capitals and no intervening space.

However, if anyone thinks that a plain "$" or "J$" or "JA$" or "JMD" after the amount or anything else is a universally known currency notation and there is no real risk of ambiguity, then we can begin a discussion about an alternative choice below. I must stress that any alternative currency notation proposed must be both well established and universally known. --W. Franke-mailtalk 13:08, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Dengue fever
I've clarified Jamaica's Malaria-free status and added a paragraph on Dengue fever. Some references:-
 * http://www.digjamaica.com/prevent_dengue
 * http://www.nathnac.org/pro/clinical_updates/dengue_jm_311012.htm
 * http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Dominica-health-ministry-confirms-dengue-outbreak

Alternative banner for this article?
I created a new alternative banner for this article (I initially created it first and foremost so that it would be used at the top of the parallel article in the Hebrew edition of Wikivoyage, yet I later decided to also suggest that the English Wikivoyage community would consider using it here as well). So, which banner do you prefer having at the top of this article? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 12:48, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I like the compostion and colours of the original banner better. Danapit (talk) 14:59, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Both are nice, though the original one is a bit too reddish for my taste tbh Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:18, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I agree with Danapit. Furthermore, the new banner could be a scene on many beaches throughout the world, but the current banner has a less typical look. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:07, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Current even though the left of the picture has some photographic imperfection Syced (talk) 08:07, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Deletions
I haven't been to Jamaica, so I have no personal view about whether these deletions are for the best, but since no reason was given for them in an edit summary and they aren't obvious, I'd like to ask User:BulbAtop and anyone else to discuss them. Thanks, everyone. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:20, 6 May 2017 (UTC)

Currency, time and spelling conventions
Below is a proposed infobox to let readers know which formatting conventions to use in Wikivoyage articles. Do you agree with these proposals? If you have direct knowledge of what is most commonly used in the country, please let us know. Ground Zero (talk) 04:37, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Moved to the top of this page. Ground Zero (talk) 04:26, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jamaica


text:
Talk:Jamestown (North Dakota)

We now have Jamestown (North Dakota) and Jamestown ND. I think this article needs to be deleted and the Jamestown ND article moved to its place. -- (WT-en) Wrh2 16:34, 10 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Oops. I got distracted.  I'll fix it. -- (WT-en) Colin 16:37, 10 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Maybe holding the baby while she falls asleep and editing slowly at the same time is not a smart idea :-). -- (WT-en) Colin 16:43, 10 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Thanks, Colin
For combining and editing. Also for fixing the various links. I have a lot of content to add over next few days. (WT-en) Stavp 21:16, 10 Jul 2005 (EDT)

NEVER STAY AT RANCH HOUSE
To start off the owner claimed I gave him the wrong date of our stay but luckily (or unluckily in our case) he had open rooms for us to stay in. Don't be fooled by the inexpensive rooms and nice location of this motel. Our rooms were disgusting (black mildew around our tub, dirty sock and old food found in our room, a bed wasn't made, TV's didn't work, outdoor pool I wouldn't let my dog swim in, Etc.) but knowing all other hotels were full we had to stay. There was a lounge area for our team to sit in, again disgusting, and while we were there someone broke into our room and stole our luggage bags. This is the 2nd time it has happened (exact same room #37) at this hotel. The hotel owner claimed the previous robbery it was a long time ago and he changed the door since then. Looking at how old our door was we are pretty sure he did not change the door. The owner is strange and not in a good way. He was argumentative, irritable and had poor customer service. I would not recommend a family to stay here as there were several other strange people lurking around the hotel. So my recommendation is that if there are no other hotel rooms for you to stay in, sleep in your car before you stay at the Ranch House.

title: Talk:Jamestown (North Dakota)


text:
Talk:Jameswalter123page

Hi! Don't tout and see wbo (WT-en) Jc8136 03:27, 16 January 2012 (EST)

title: Talk:Jameswalter123page


text:
Talk:Jamica Village

I believe that Jamica Village is a spelling error and mis-naming of an article, as the Village is superfluous and does not follow the Project:Article naming conventions. So I moved the article to Jamaica (Vermont) because a google search turned up lots more relevant articles. -- (WT-en) Huttite 07:20, 27 May 2005 (EDT)

title: Talk:Jamica Village


text:
Talk:Jammu

region vs city
I only made this a city page, even though Kashmir and Ladakh have region pages, because nobody really travels much here and the few sights of interest could easily be listed in the "Get out" section of Jammu city... (WT-en) Cacahuate 07:07, 11 November 2006 (EST)
 * I understand. Quick question though. By get out do you mean the section of "go next"? —The preceding comment was added by DoggsWiki (talk • contribs)
 * That section used to be called "Get out" years ago. Parenthetically, you won't get a response from any user with a name that starts with "(WT-en)" because that code was added to legacy users from Wikitravel whose accounts weren't merged with new Wikivoyage accounts after the fork (see Wikivoyage and Wikitravel for background). User:Cacahuate did edit Wikivoyage, too, but hasn't edited since 2016. I hope they're well and having a happy life! Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:06, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Staying safe?
In my opinion, due to conflict around this area, a stay safe section should be added. I will not do this myself as I am not even close to local, but it should be considered. —The preceding comment was added by DoggsWiki (talk • contribs)

 * This article is about Jammu city. There are some remarks in Jammu Division. If there should be specific warnings for the city, please go ahead and add them. Someone else with more on-the-ground knowledge can always edit your warnings, but we can't assume that such a person is more likely to read this talk page and post some information than that no such person makes any edits for years. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:06, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jammu


text:
Talk:Jammu Division

This region is pointless
We can't have "regions" split down the middle by lines that can't be crossed. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:35, 20 August 2009 (EDT)
 * No it isn't. Just fixed it. We have Jammu city in Jammu district in Jammu division in Jammu and Kashmir. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 13:20, 20 August 2009 (EDT)

Un-subdivided
I have reversed the subdivision of this state into districts. Subdivision is completely unnecessary at this point, as there is only one city article contained in this region, and it may not ever be necessary. I removed the district section and redirected the existing district articles, all of which were empty. Texugo (talk) 14:14, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Quite right!--90.215.245.164 14:38, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jammu Division


text:
Talk:Jamnagar

The "Understand" section is copied from Wikipedia:Jamnagar. --(WT-en) Evan 17:17, 12 December 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Jamnagar


text:
Talk:Jamshedpur

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Comments
I've nuked some sections, as it was simply getting so unwildly noone could look at this page without their eyes hurting. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 04:48, 13 November 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Jamshedpur


text:
Talk:Janda Baik

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Clean-up
Ok, I've applied the Small City template and changed things into listings. The Sleep listings in particular need some research and fleshing out; or removing? If anyone has any suggetions or further info, give us a shout and we'll see if we can improve this article :) (WT-en) Nrms 08:10, 13 November 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Janda Baik


text:
Talk:Jan Mayen

Do we actually NEED articles like this? Jan Mayen Island is a barren desolate rock somewhere near Greenland and the only things there are an active volcano and a meteorological outpost. I don't see anyone wanting to actually GO there! btw, shouldn't it be under 'Jan Mayen Island'? Or is 'Jan' Norwegian for 'Island' or something? (WT-en) KJ

 * Well, we may not need to vacation there, but we may want to invade it. B-) The article was imported from the CIA Factbook, obviously, and I didn't really comb any entries. Personally, I find places like this really fascinating -- little tiny islands that are really, really hard to get to, the periphery of geography. I don't know if even the most adventurous of adventure travellers go to places like Jan Mayen, but I'd like to dream that they do. However, if you think it needs to get zarked, please list it on Project:votes for deletion. -- (WT-en) Evan 20:52, 13 Aug 2003 (PDT)

 * It sounds like the sort of place that it would be really neat to visit (in theory) but in practice it's just not possible... I found it with the random button, so I guess I'll just ignore it for now :) (WT-en) KJ

 * It's apparently associated with Svalbard, which sounds much more interesting -- an Arctic volcanic island with a population of 3000 -- about half Norwegians and half Russians and Ukrainians. What an amazingly weird world we live in. -- (WT-en) Evan 21:11, 13 Aug 2003 (PDT)

 * Of course we need places like this. If any scientists or other people are going to visit this place they will need a travel guide to it. It will tell them it is an active volcano in the middle of the Arctic Ocean that Norway controls; a few people maintain a navigation station there, though nobody lives there permanently; there is an airstrip, but no harbor, and you (might) have the choice of 20 ISP's - though I would love to see the installation charges! -- (WT-en) Huttite 07:54, 30 Dec 2005 (EST)

 * For an insight into how to visit, read the book Frost On My Moustache by Tim Moore. He travelled there courtesy of the Norwegian air force. It seems neither a cheap nor easy trip, but it seems it is still possible to reach Jan Mayen if you are really so inclined (I won't spoil the ending for you - read the book). -- (WT-en) StuartEdwards

There are people liking to travel to all sorts of weird places! It is quite possible that someone would like to travel there, so there is not really any reason why it should be removed. --(WT-en) Oddeivind 10:06, 28 February 2011 (EST)

title: Talk:Jan Mayen


text:
Talk:January

India

 * 14-26 January 2006: The Mumbai Festival. Sample the vibrant culture of Bombay. The festival covers theatre, sports, fashion, food and shopping.

Australia

 * 20th-29th January 2006: Tamworth Country Music Festival, Australia's largest country music festival, Tamworth, northern New South Wales

title: Talk:January


text:
Talk:Japan

Article Status of Prefectural Capitals
A list of the status of each of the prefectural capitals. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:34, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Time and date formatting
Our Japan articles take a scattered approach to time formatting, mixing 12-hour and 24-hour clock formats within articles, and sometimes within listings. It would be easier for readers to follow if we used one format consistently across our Japan articles. On my recent visit there, I observed both formats being used commonly, but the 24-hour format being used about 75% of the time, and the 12-hour format the rest. I propose to adopt the 24-hour clock as the standard for Japan articles. Comments? Ground Zero (talk) 21:07, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

 * I wouldn't want to be the one to reformat all the listings (perhaps we can automate it?) but I have to agree. While Japan uses both formats, 24-hour format is definitely more common for listing business hours, particularly when writing in Japanese. If we want to pick one format for consistency in our Japan articles, it should be 24-hour format. --Bigpeteb (talk) 21:55, 24 May 2019 (UTC)

I have made a proposal related to this discussion at Wikivoyage_talk:Time_and_date_formats. Comments welcome. Ground Zero (talk) 13:32, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Length of the article
This article is now 362,000 bytes long, which is an increase from 348,000 bytes since the beginning of the year. By comparison, the United States of America is 248,000 bytes, China is 242,000 bytes, and Russia is 171,000 bytes. These three countries are all considerably larger than Japan by area and by population.

This sort of growth in an article results from the common tendency putting everything that is important or interesting about a country in the country-level article. The result, though, is a long, unwieldy article in which it is difficult for readers to find the key information they need. Forget about printing it out.

The solution to this, which has worked well for the USA and China articles, is to move the more detailed information to branch articles, leaving behind summaries and links that take interested readers to the more in-depth articles about a subject.

Here are articles that could be created into order to bring this article more in line with those of other countries and more it easier to read and use: Of course, articles usually benefit for a general trimming to tighten up parts that may be wordy or overly detsils.
 * Driving in Japan
 * Arts in Japan
 * Shopping in Japan
 * Food and drink in Japan
 * Public baths in Japan -- I think this would be useful as a separate, expanded article about onsens and sentos.

Any other suggestions? Ground Zero (talk) 18:37, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Agreed, though I think the Understand section is especially long here. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 14:32, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Agree with the general idea, haven't looked closely at the details. We already do have Japanese cuisine, and most of the "Eat" and "Drink" sections could be incorporated into that article leaving a summary behind here. (Along the way, we might be able to get Japanese cuisine up to guide status and FTT!) It might also make sense to have a travel topic article about ryokan, I'm not sure. I urge care in paring down the article—though long, it is well written and has a lot of useful information. I found it very helpful in getting my bearings when planning a trip to Japan last year.
 * The "Connect" section currently has a lot of intricate detail—I wonder if that could be condensed and simplified. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:32, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

 * I'm happy to cut down the article in the same way that we have cut down the United States of America and China articles. I agree in principle that the Japan article should not be longer than either of those articles since Japan is much smaller in both land area and population. I think a Driving in Japan article will be useful to have. We already have a Japanese cuisine article, so some of the information about food can go in there. The dog2 (talk) 19:42, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Progress so far
In the three weeks after I started this discussion thread, the byte count climbed from 362,000 to 364,000. I have now managed to to cut the size of the article down to about 283,000, which means that the 61st largest country by land mass, and the 11th largest country by population, still has the longest Wikivoyage article of any country, by a sizeable margin. this does a great disservice to such an amazing country for travellers. We can do a better job of explaining this country to travellers if we move away from the notion that we want to put everything there is to know about Japan into one long, meandering wordy article. A concisely-written, well-organized, tight article will be of more use to travellers than what we have now.

In moving text to topic articles, I found the following:
 * sections where the text had been copied word-for-word between the two articles -- why is that helpful? It just wastes the time of the reader who is reading both articles;
 * topics where the country article provided much o more in-depth and extensive coverage of the topic than the topic article did
 * lots of text in the country article that will be relevant only to a very niche group of travellers -- moving this to a topic article makes the article better for the mass of readers, while maintaining useful information for the niche group.

I will start going through section by section to reduce repetition, reduce wordiness, and remove stuff that isn't really relevant to travellers. Questions to ponder: In the work that I have done so far, I've demonstrated that moving detail to a topic article never means losing information, or leaving the reader without the key points in this article.
 * 1) ✓ I think that we need to ask ourselves whether the Japan article should provide so very much detail about ATMs. It used to be that getting money was a big hassle. (Back when only 7-11 and Japan Post ATMs worked, I rescued an American who told me he was going to go home early because he was running out of money.) Now that getting money is much easier, do we need all of this tedious detail?
 * 2) ✓  Why do we have contact information for boat companies in the Get in section? Are many travellers getting in by boat? Shouldn't these details be in the port city articles?
 * 3) ✓ Do we need a list of the names of the regional smart cards? Or is it enough to have those in the Rail travel article?
 * 4) ✓ Can we move the map and list of castle to a Japanese castles article that can be fleshed out with more details?
 * 5) ✓  Should the Spiritual sites section get into history so much, or focus on the sites? It seems strange that the Christian sites section is the longest.
 * 6) Should ryokans be split out into their own topic, which could include a list of good ryokans around the country?
 * 7) ✓ Can we limit the advice on earthquakes to that which is specific to Japan, and refer readers to the Earthquakes article for the general advice?
 * 8) ✓ Can we move the detailed explanation on business cards in Respect to Working in Japan, and leave just the key points here?
 * 9) The gianormous section on mobile/cell phones must surely be split out into a topic article, e.g. Mobile phones in Japan again leaving the key points here, and directing interested readers to the topic article.

I think it's great that so many people want to share information about travelling to this amazing country, but by putting everything in one place. I feel that we are loving the article to death. Ground Zero (talk) 01:06, 20 July 2019 (UTC)

 * To answer your questions:
 * 1. I usually bring enough cash to cover my stay in Japan, so I can't answer this one.
 * 2. A workable option is to mention what the port cities are, and list the companies in the port cities.
 * 3. I think this should stay on the main page since it is not only used on trains. You can use them on buses too, and often also to make payments in convenience stores.
 * 4. We already have a Castles article. We can probably move some of the information there for now. We can create a separate article for Japanese castles if the section there gets too long.
 * 5. I agree that we should focus on the sites, and put more of the history in the respective regional/city articles.
 * 6. I am open to splitting of ryokans into a separate topic.
 * 7. I will agree with your position on that.
 * 8. That works for me too.
 * 9. We can probably cut all that down to be in line with our other country articles. We don't need to list all mobile phone operators. Just the major ones.
 * The dog2 (talk) 01:13, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

 * I mostly agree with these suggestions; most of this information can be moved elsewhere and/or trimmed. A few additional thoughts:
 * ATMs -- Agreed, getting money is much simpler than it used to be. However, it seems it's still a little complex for some users (i.e. UnionPay). Seeing as the English WV is the largest one by far, I think it's reasonable to retain information for international readers who might translate this article into their own language. We can greatly simplify the section on ATMs, but I'd try not to remove too much information that's still useful to a huge number of people (unless a Google search shows that it's easy to get the same info on what to do if you're a UnionPay user... but then, why rely on other travel guides when we are a travel guide?).
 * Rail smart cards -- That list had been reduced to an inline list or removed completely at some point, but then it was added back in. I would at least mention Suica and Pasmo, and maybe also Icoca and Pitapa, but the rest can be removed.
 * Ryokan -- Although that subsection is long, I don't think there's much more to say, and it would be a very short article if it was separate. As for listing ryokan, no way. There are probably thousands of ryokan across the country, and frankly, most of them are good. I don't think there are any that stand out enough to warrant a mention at the country level. Even if it were a separate article, I don't see how a list of "places with ryokan" would be feasible.
 * Bigpeteb (talk) 18:50, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

I think it's worthwhile though to mention the original castles, being that there's only 12 in the entire country. A lot of visitors seem to assume they're all authentic and report disappointment at how "modern and commercial" they are because they went to a reconstruction. It's well worth planning a trip partially around visiting one or more authentic castles. I think the map could be removed, though. As for the history in the Christian sites section of "See", I wrote it with the sites in mind. None of the history there is given without an association to an actual place you can visit and those make up the bulk of the highlights of Christian tourist sites in Japan. While you say it's strange that it's the longest section, it is actually precisely because there are less sites that makes it easier to organize them (relative historical chronology in this case) and present them. That's a much more daunting task for Buddhism and would certainly overwhelm the article. The "Shinto" section is awful, but I was too tired to give it the attention it deserved. The history is of course also what makes those Christian sites noteworthy. I'd hate to see it all whittled down to "Nagasaki has a lot of churches." or just listing places like the "Shinto" section with almost nothing regarding why you should visit. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 11:03, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

 * With regard to castles, I think that we should also list Nijo Castle in Kyoto in addition to the 12 original ones. Although Nijo Castle no longer has its keep, the palace buildings within the castle are authentic, and it is known for its "nightingale floors" that are designed to squeak so the Shogun can be warned of any potential assassins. I wouldn't mind giving Shuri Castle a mention either, since it is fairly unique. Although it is a reconstruction, it is the only example of a Ryukyuan castle that you can visit as a tourist, and is a distinct style from a Japanese castle. The dog2 (talk) 15:54, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The list of 12 is not our own original list, though. It's a well-known/established list of Japan's "authentic" castles. Nijo Castle is mentioned in the following "reconstructions and ruins" section along with other castles that have authentic structures remaining that are not the donjon. Nijo Castle could possibly be moved up to the blurb about what constitutes the list of 12, but I don't think we should add it to the list itself. Shuri Castle is also in the reconstructions section and it definitely belongs with other reconstructions. It would be a flat-out lie for us to list it as authentic. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 10:18, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

 * I wasn't saying that they should be listed as original castles. I was just saying that they should be mentioned, as they are now. Even if we decide to trim the section, I think we should keep the mention of those two. The dog2 (talk) 14:27, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

I'm not convinced about moving some of the banking info to Working in Japan. Some of it is also useful to students, which is "Learn" not "Work". A minor complaint, but it strikes me as a bit incongruous to lump all info about living long-term in Japan under "Working". --Bigpeteb (talk) 17:26, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I see your point, but I've literally never heard of a short-term visitor setting up a bank account in a country they are visiting. Do banks anywhere allow this? I doubt that we have enough material to warrant a "Studying in Japan" article, but what about expanding "Working in..." to Working and studying in Japan? This article really should cover the most important things for visitors to Japan, and not everything someone would want to know about Japan? Ground Zero (talk) 17:57, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I'd support expanding it to Working and studying in Japan; that seems like it would sufficiently cover a range of topics relevant to long-term or very-frequent visitors. As for opening a bank account, I admit, I don't know much about it but maybe we need a more international perspective. I have no idea if this is common in other countries, e.g. as a way to avoid high transaction fees when you visit a country often. I kind of assumed the information had been added here for a reason (i.e. because to some people, opening a bank account even for short-term travel would be a natural thing to consider doing), but maybe that's not the case and it can be removed. --Bigpeteb (talk) 18:36, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. Ground Zero (talk) 01:51, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * With regards to short-term visitors setting up banks accounts, I've done so in Hong Kong before. And if you're a business traveller who travels to that destination regularly, it is not inconceivable that you will want to do so. The dog2 (talk) 18:58, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Christian sites in Japan
I understand the point about including history to explain the relevance of the sites, but I am wondering if Christian sites in Japan are more of a niche interest better suited to a topic article than to taking up a lot of space in the country article.

A look at the history of this article shows how it has grown like topsy as more and more detail has been added. The beauty of an online guide is that we have room for details and niche topics that paper guides would never be able to include, but we still should try to focus the country article on being a usable resource got general travellers. I've been working hard to trim this down to a more manageable size, but we are already seeing things being added back in. I have yet to see a reason why the Japan article should be so much bigger than any other country article. Ground Zero (talk) 17:57, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

 * An alternative I can suggest is moving much to that information to the Christianity article. The dog2 (talk) 18:59, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Looking at the Christianity article, a Japan section doesn't seem to fit, so if the section really is too long, I guess the new article would be a better solution. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 13:20, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Done. The new article provides more detail than the (now summarized) section of this article did, and some more pictures. I think it will be more useful for those interested in this part of the country's history. A dynamic map would be a useful thing to add, if someone has those skills. Ground Zero (talk) 20:17, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Clever me: I figured out how to add a map. Ground Zero (talk) 12:31, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I support your work, but I think an explanation for Japan is that it has its own distinct culture, resulting in a lot of important information for visiting travelers. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 13:14, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
 * It's a decent start-up article! Thanks, Ground Zero ChubbyWimbus (talk) 13:55, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks. A lot of countries have distinct cultures, and many are more diverse and complex than Japan. The question is whether it is more useful to travellers to have one big article, or to split out topics into seperate, more detailed articles, like the Christian sites in Japan article. I plan to work on a Japanese castles article that will provide more detail, a longer list of castles including Shuri Castle and other reconstructions. Ground Zero (talk) 18:07, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

ATMs
Would there be any objection to moving the detailed list of banks and what cards their machines accept and what the fees are to Shopping in Japan and keeping a summary of key points here? Ground Zero (talk) 15:01, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * What if we created a topic article called Banks in Japan or Banking in Japan, or something of that nature? --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 15:21, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I think it would fit well into the Shopping article and maybe help keep it focused on information for travelers without creeping out of scope. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 15:40, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Mobile payments
Stuff like this is interesting, but not relevant to foreign visitors, so maybe it doesn't belong in an article that is too long and full of details:
 * "Japan has also been a leader in mobile phone payments. Osaifu Keitai (おサイフケータイ) is a service that means "Mobile Wallet" and arrived long before the advent of Apple Pay, Google Pay and the like. The service is not compatible with foreign mobile phones."

Ground Zero (talk) 15:01, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

 * It's relevant to anyone who is staying in Japan long-term or visits often, and might want to use the service. That's certainly in scope for WV. But more generally, I think it's useful to explain that there are two systems for mobile payments in Japan: osaifu keitai and NFC. Most visitors will be able to use one, but not the other. Surely we'd be remiss not to explain that, although maybe the explanation can be shortened and improved.
 * (BTW, I'm actually thinking of removing (or at least shortening) the blurb about registering a Suica card on an iPhone because it's actually a huge pain in the ass: you have to set your phone's region to Japan, meaning your whole phone will be in Japanese, and it actually transfers your Suica card to your phone, making your phone the only way of using your card.) --Bigpeteb (talk) 20:29, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Instead of removing the information, we can move it. Since it is useful for a smaller group of our readers, putting it in the Shopping in Japan article (with a note in Japan indicating where to find the information), would be of benefit to the larger group of short-term visitors reading the main article. It's too "in the weeds" for most readers. Ground Zero (talk) 19:04, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Dynamic map for Japan not working
Normally, boundaries on a dynamic map between regions should show a thick black line, but on the map of Japan, these lines are not showing. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 15:19, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * It's because the mapshape-s there have parameter "stroke-opacity=0.1"... -- andree.sk (talk) 19:40, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Maybe. I'll take another look. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 18:07, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * All I can see is, under the "Cities" section, . --Comment by  Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 18:08, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Warning Box
The storm referenced in the warning box has already passed through. Does it still need to be kept up? JRHorse (talk) 12:25, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Nope. Gone! ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:20, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I also just deleted the one I added to Tokyo a few days back. Though if the storm and floods has put something travel-relevant out of service for some longer period, that could merit a cautionbox. Ypsilon (talk) 14:35, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

 * That sounds fair. Definitely this thing has been getting more attention now. And I've been seeing more reports of xenophobia worldwide, and not just in Japan. The dog2 (talk) 17:35, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Caution box - Super Typhoon Hagibis
Most areas and public transport have recovered from the typhoon, with the notable exception of Hakone and - until the end of the month at least - the line that connects Tokyo with Matsumoto. The Hokuriku Shinkansen will restore 80-90 percent of service on 25 September. Was wondering if the caution box should now go from the main Japan article. JRHorse (talk) 12:21, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Maybe move it to the Get Around section, since most (although not all) of the remaining warnings are about public transit disruptions? --Bigpeteb (talk) 17:49, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok the caution box has been moved and updated to reflect the travel options that seem to have the most impact now (specifically Hakone and the train line that runs from Shinjuku to Matsumoto). JRHorse (talk) 03:46, 25 October 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:51, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Orion beer.jpg

Wayfinding in Japanese cities
the issue I was trying to address with my recent edits was this paragraph, which I find to be very confusing:
 * "Most roads have no name; instead, street blocks are numbered, which are grouped into numbered districts (丁目 chōme), and then into neighborhoods, cities, and prefectures. Addresses are written in order from largest to smallest; an example address written as 名駅4丁目5-6 or 名駅4-5-6 would be the neighborhood of Meieki (名駅), district 4, block 5, house 6. (Addresses are usually written in English as "Meieki 4-5-6" or "4-5-6 Meieki", although the post office recommends the confusing "5-6 Meieki 4-chome".) Additional numbers may be appended for the floor or room number."

The problem I have with it is the ordering: it goes from block to district to neighbourhood to city, which is not how Japanese addresses work, and it isn't how people find places. If you're on the block, you've already found your way through the district, neighbourhood and city. Let's turn it around to follow the order in which people will find their way there:
 * "Most roads have no name; instead, cities are divided into neighborhoods with names, which are sub-divided into numbered districts (丁目 chōme), which are sub-divided into street blocks, which are also numbered. Addresses are written in order from largest to smallest; an example address written as 名駅4丁目5-6 or 名駅4-5-6 would be the neighborhood of Meieki (名駅), district 4, block 5, house 6. (Addresses are usually written in English as "Meieki 4-5-6" or "4-5-6 Meieki", although the post office recommends the confusing "5-6 Meieki 4-chome".) Additional numbers may be appended for the floor or room number."

As far as "The advice to just wander around blindly hoping to find a place", that is how I figured out how Japanese addresses work after 16 hours of travel from Queenstown NZ to Osaka, trying to find an Airbnb without a decent map or GPS at 11pm. In the fricking rain. But I won't insist on including that advice. Ground Zero (talk) 15:21, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

 * I think I wrote most of that original text, so I feel comfortable defending it. :-) I was trying to convey what this video explains, but even more concisely if possible: the difference between the Western system (streets have names, and blocks are the empty spaces between streets) and the Japanese system (blocks have names/numbers, and streets are the empty spaces between blocks), and that Japanese addresses are more hierarchical (Western addresses jump from city directly to road to house; the road could be anywhere in the city, and the house number could be anywhere along the road).
 * You make a great point about the order being backwards! I never thought about it before, but now that you point it out I agree it's a confusing way to explain it. I think we can reverse it, play with the phrasing a little, and that will improve things.
 * While wandering around blindly can work sometimes, it's by no means guaranteed: we already point out that blocks and districts are often not numbered sequentially, so if you're in block or district 3 looking for 4, you have no idea which way to go, and you won't necessarily find it by circling the block/district. (Much like a telephone/numeric keypad, 3 is not adjacent to 4!) Even if you knew which way to go, you could be as much as 1km off from where you're supposed to be; if you don't know which way to go, how many kilometers might you walk before you happen to find your destination? We have much better advice already in the article: use the maps in train stations, or on your phone, or go to a police box. Perhaps some bold text and/or breaking those into bullet points will improve the readability and draw attention to it. My hope is that if we start with an easy-to-understand explanation of the address system and how to navigate it, we can spare other travelers from the trouble you went through. :-D --Bigpeteb (talk) 18:41, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Coronavirus
Do we really need a warning box about the Coronavirus in Japan at this point? Aside from the cruise ship there does not seem to be much of an outbreak compared to China. JRHorse (talk) 13:21, 22 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I have changed the warning box to a caution box. While this is a matter of some concern at the moment in the country, Japan's issues are nowhere close to what China is facing right now. Other governments have not raised travel advisories for people visiting Japan to a level of "do not travel" or "reconsider travel" as is the case with China at the time of writing. Of course if the situation becomes more urgent then that would likely call for the warning box. JRHorse (talk) 01:54, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Good idea. But let's not try to provide running updates. If the situation changes dramatically, we can upgrade this to a warning box again. Ground Zero (talk) 06:07, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
 * That's fair enough. Thanks! JRHorse (talk) 01:37, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Should there be a framework for informing about this when it comes to pages on other countries, or does such a framework already exist? Italy for example has a warning box at the current moment. JRHorse (talk) 01:43, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree regarding a framework for warning box vs caution box. Maybe if the majority of travel advisories are level 3 (reconsider travel/avoid non-essential travel) or higher? I see for China we're using Australia, New Zealand, US, UK, and Canada. So if 3 out of 5 countries have travel advisories that go to level 3, then warning box. If lower, then caution box? Thuegh (talk) 03:03, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * I concur that the threshold for a warning box should be if a "do not travel" or "avoid nonessential travel" advisory is issued. I think if even one of the major international powers declares such an advisory, then that would certainly carry a lot of weight. JRHorse (talk) 03:24, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Again, do we really need a warning box about the Coronavirus in Japan? There are no urgent travel advisories to Japan; the US has not raised its threat level in the last week. JRHorse (talk) 12:33, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

 * I agree with the suggested threshold as a rough rule of thumb. Based on that, it seems like the box in this article should still be a cautionbox. Though maybe the state of emergency in Hokkaido should also be taken into account, I don't know. —Granger (talk · contribs) 09:41, 2 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I did put a warning box on Hokkaido as their governor has declared a state of emergency. JRHorse (talk) 19:02, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

30 March 2020
I am waiting for official confirmation on JNTO's website but from news reports I am reading, Japan will ban entry of foreigners from about 1/3 of all countries and regions, while all others will be asked to self quarantine. Maybe it sounds like captain obvious but I feel this would warrant a warning box now, once it's confirmed? JRHorse (talk) 11:27, 30 March 2020 (UTC)

1 April 2020
I've added the updates from the JNTO as they were posted this morning. Since it's a long list I just decided to provide a link to the JNTO's coronavirus website where a full list of affected countries and regions can be found. From the site, I count over 70 countries/regions subject to an entry ban and over 20 subject to visa cancellation. JRHorse (talk) 15:18, 1 April 2020 (UTC)

6 April 2020
The Japanese prime minister has announced he is finalizing plans to declare a state of emergency for seven prefectures, so I'd like to change the caution box to a warning box once the declaration has been made. Thoughts are welcome. JRHorse (talk) 13:14, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Is there a "non-obvious danger to life and limb"? I doubt that many non-Japanese travellers are going to Japan or can get in now, so I don't think there is a danger to life. Ground Zero (talk) 13:28, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Would this state of emergency affect those (though they are likely small in number) who are visiting Japan? If the effect is substantial, a warningbox would be the better of the two options (for example, if those still in Japan are being evacuated); but if it's merely a "state of emergency" that's not going to be an emergency for most people, then I'd support keeping it as a cautionbox. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 13:53, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
 * What would be the difference then, say, compared to the warning box currently up for South Korea? (granted I don't think that particular message has been updated for a bit) JRHorse (talk) 14:33, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that needs to be a warningbox. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 14:56, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I've updated the South Korea page with the updated information and changed to a caution box. With regards to this article, coronavirus does pose a danger to life and limb. But, since this is probably now obvious instead of non-obvious, would that be the difference to keep the caution box here? JRHorse (talk) 15:26, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I think so. I wouldn't count the virus itself, since as you say, that threat is obvious. I'm thinking about threats directly associated with travel (such as travel restrictions), and I don't see any that warrant a warningbox. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 17:45, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

 * Japan PM Shinzo Abe Lifts Coronavirus Emergency May 25th Pashley (talk) 23:36, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

Xenophobia
In the discrimination section of Stay Safe, this was written: "Xenophobia has intensified as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic, with an increased number of restaurants and other businesses now refusing service to foreign customers."

I am not reading any primary sources suggesting there is an intensification of Xenophobia in Japan. Please discuss, or else a revert should be considered. JRHorse (talk) 03:50, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I haven't seen or heard of businesses refusing non-Japanese customers either. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 07:24, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I've reverted it. JRHorse (talk) 13:06, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * See this article for an example of a restaurant refusing service to foreign customers because of COVID-19 fears. The dog2 (talk) 22:42, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I know people get excited about discrimination, but I don't think one instance from way back in February warrants a warning that foreigners are being denied services all over Japan. That's rather unfair and extremely sensational. A lot has changed since February. At that time the virus was from China and brought by Chinese people. Now, everyone is a potential carrier and the public is aware of that. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 05:06, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure, it may not be all or even most restaurants refusing service to foreigners, and we should not overstate the problem, but things like this have happened even before COVID-19 started. My colleague (who is white, by the way) told me that a restaurant in Kanazawa refused to serve him and his wife even though there were many empty seats. Unfortunately, my colleague can't speak Japanese, and the restaurant staff could not speak English or Spanish, so they weren't able to communicate verbally, but what he told me was that when he tried to dine there, the restaurant owner came out and made a cross sign with his arms while blocking the entrance to let them know that they were not welcome. So it would certainly not be exaggeration to say that things like this do happen. And my colleague definitely does not dress like a gangster, so that can be ruled out as a reason. The dog2 (talk) 19:23, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
 * I would suggest that we change (going by the quote in the beginning of this discussion) "has intensified" to "has become an issue" or something along those lines. I'm not sure anyone can prove that it has intensified, but rather that it is now perhaps more noticed than it has been in the past (due to the impacts of the virus). --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 19:51, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Subsidised travel?
Japan might pay for half of your next trip to jumpstart tourism No details yet, but likely worth tracking. Pashley (talk) 21:49, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Follow-up articles have sort of debunked this; the subsidies appear to be aimed at domestic Japanese travelers. JRHorse (talk) 01:43, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Curry?
Shanghai has a lot of curry restaurants with Japanese names & I, planning my first trip to Japan when the COVID problem dies down, wondered if they were common in Japan. Japanese curry says yes but I do not see much on them in this article.

They look worth adding to me, but since I do not know Japan, I will not do that myself. Pashley (talk) 01:14, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Definitely. Japanese curry can be exquisite. And then there is Yoshinoya, a big chain with orange signs. Its curry is so bland and disappointing. Japan is such a great place for food that you shouldn't waste your calorie budget on food like that. I'm not a Japan expert, but an enthusiastic amateur. I don't have specific recommendations because we just wandered neighbourhoods looking at menus. Most places seemed to have an English menu posted, or behind the counter, and restaurateurs were usually eager to help clueless foreigners. Enjoy. Ground Zero (talk) 02:01, 25 May 2020 (UTC)

 * Japanese curry is very famous and very common. I wouldn't personally recommend chain restaurants, unless you are interested in that experience, but a lot of places have curry. There are also cities known for curry, such as Kuwana, Gujo, Bizen, Toyohashi, Kanazawa, etc. and Hokkaido has its own "soup curry" that is good as well. Curry Udon is also extremely popular and well worth it. Nagoya has good curry udon. I'll take a look at the "Eat" section to see if I can add something. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 11:30, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I took a stab at adding a blurb. I don't know how good it is, but feel free to edit. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 11:55, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Should we maybe mention some chains that are known for their curry rice? One place recommend by my Japanese colleague I ate at the last time I visited Japan was CoCo Ichibanya, and I remember their curry was pretty nice. The dog2 (talk) 05:05, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Looking at the other food categories, none of them list chain restaurants, so it's probably not warranted. Coco Curry is one of the chains listed in the Japanese cuisine article. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 08:55, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Discrimination
Suggested amendments to "Although violent attacks against foreigners in Japan are almost unheard of, there is systemic discrimination, particularly against darker-skin people." In Japan, I think unconscious discrimination is more accurate than institutional discrimination. I suggest that we change institutional discrimination to unconscious discrimination. I don't think it's "particulary" so I removed "particulary". I also think it's more about unconscious discrimination against specifical countries. Also, since a later sentence mentions white people. Therefore, we propose to change it to "Although violent attacks against foreigners in Japan are almost unheard of,but there is unconscious discrimination, against a person with a different skin color than the Japanese and specifical nationality.".--コイコイ (talk) 01:53, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

 * I have not been to Japan yet, so I'm guessing here, based on experience in China. I'd have just:
 * "There is some discrimination against anyone who is not Japanese, especially against blacks. However, neither violence against foreigners nor most of the scams seen in poorer Asian countries are at all common in Japan." Pashley (talk) 04:32, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

 * To my knowledge, there's no official laws that apply specifically to one race but not the other. But from what I've heard, let's say you want to apply for an English-teaching job, they do prefer white people over non-whites. I definitely noticed that white people got treated somewhat better than me in say, restaurants, although I must make it clear that I was not treated badly, and they were still polite to me. I just remember that at a sushi restaurant, the chef came out from behind the bar to specifically bow to the white customer. I was treated politely too, but I didn't get that special treatment. The dog2 (talk) 05:09, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

 * We do have this text in Teaching_English:

 * There are often fairly strong preferences for native English speakers and for citizens of major English-speaking countries. Job ads fairly often include a list of acceptable passports; UK, US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand are on every list, Ireland and South Africa on most. Even if not explicitly stated, many employers will not even read the rest of your resume, and some governments will refuse to issue you a work permit without one of those passports. Many ads also give an acceptable age range, and a few specify gender or marital status; this would be illegal under discrimination laws in some countries, but is fairly common in ads for overseas jobs.

 * Especially in Asia, various prejudices and stereotypes may also come into play; many schools prefer white people, especially blue-eyed blondes, in large part because they hope the "right" image will help their marketing. This is mainly based on economics — the archetypal native English speaker is a white person, and parents who send their children to be taught by a native English speaker expect the teachers to look that way. Overseas Chinese (even ones with English as their first language), Filipinos, Indians, Malaysians, American Blacks, and especially Africans all report some difficulties finding jobs, or getting lower offers. Members of all those groups are happily employed in other schools, and many are well-paid, but getting a job is easier if you fit the stereotype.

 * Is that all we need there? (I'd say so.) Should we link to it from other places? (not certain) Pashley (talk) 10:03, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

I don't know that we need to have a special warning about black people. We need to be careful just slapping "everyone hates blacks" warnings on everything just because people assume everyone hates black people. If we're going to single out specific groups as facing heightened discrimination, we need a good reason, and I don't think that is the case here. Lots of foreigners, mostly residents rather than tourists, have stories of mild discrimination (some real, some imagined) but to pretend it's so bad for black people that we need to single them out like they shouldn't visit Japan or they should think twice about coming doesn't seem right to me. I think the Teaching English description for employment discrimination is fine and has truth, but I do not think it's true that as tourists black people need to be warned about visiting Japan any more than other tourists. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 15:05, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

 * I agree that the discrimination in Japan is for the most part mild, and it's very rare for violent hate crimes to happen. However, "darker-skin" doesn't necessarily mean just black people. That group includes many non-Japanese Asians and Pacific Islanders as well, like perhaps Indians, Thais, Burmese, Malays, Fijians, Tongans and so on. The dog2 (talk) 15:08, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Many Japanese themselves are as dark as the groups you mention. If you have to say "perhaps" then it's poorly written. We shouldn't make strange, archaic references to "dark people" when we have the ability to name exact groups without ambiguity. Do Japanese treat Indians particularly poorly or not? Should Burmese travelers avoid Japan? Are we just making stuff up? ChubbyWimbus (talk) 15:20, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Yes, let's please not make stuff up. We shouldn't be "guessing based on experience in China"—let's rely on editors who are familiar with Japan. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:28, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

 * I have been to Japan a number of times. I will say that it's certainly true that white people get treated somewhat better than non-Japanese Asians. But it's in subtle ways like the way I mentioned. It certainly isn't serious enough to warrant asking non-Japanese Asians to avoid Japan, but I think it's something some people will notice, and therefore should be mentioned, though not sensationalised. That's not to say that non-whites cannot have a good time Japan (I wouldn't have visited multiple times if I didn't), but merely that there are some subtle things that you might notice during your trip. The dog2 (talk) 18:11, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Forgive me for my skepticism, but how do you know that the sushi chef only stepped out to greet the white people BECAUSE they were white? While anything is possible and I wasn't there, it seems just as likely that you missed some context and just decided for yourself that race is the answer. You tend to show hyper-sensitivity towards things like race, so it does leave me wondering if the situation is not what you perceived it to be. Giving special greetings to white people is not a thing Japanese people do. The likelihood of that same situation recurring is next to zero. I think mentioning that Japanese show "subtle preferential treatment towards whites over other foreigners" or "subtle racism against dark people" is already sensationalizing it by putting the idea in the travelers mind that if they're "dark" they should look for racism/discrimination. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 12:08, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

I know this is not a travel-related issue, but a Japanese friend told me that if you are male and go to a nightclub, it is much easier for you to chat up the ladies if you are male. So the preference for white people most certainly exists to an extent. In fact, Japanese women go to host clubs to specifically talk to either white or Japanese men. As I said, it's not as if the Japanese will be rude to you if you are not white. It doesn't go that far. But pretending that prejudices and stereotypes don't exist at all is also not being honest. The dog2 (talk) 17:17, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Anyway, to try to end this dispute and come up with something fair, Bigpeteb, JRHorse and Ineffablebookkeeper, you guys seem familiar with Japan too, so what are your takes? The dog2 (talk) 18:18, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Hiya - while it's true that outright discrimination probably doesn't take the same form as you'd see in, say, America, I'd say that it's likely because outwardly expressed everything likely takes a different form in Japan. I'll explain.

 * I'm from the UK myself - and prevailing attitudes towards discrimination against black people were, for a very long time, that This Sort Of Thing Doesn't Happen Here.

 * However, this would often be in response to American examples of discrimination - which can be more outwardly and plainly expressed. We always say that Americans are loud and noisy people. So, if we are quieter people...then our racism, our discrimination, won't be as loud and noisy. It'll just be shitty and quiet and snide and subtle - subtle in the same way that all UK society is, subtle enough that someone from the UK, who's essentially lived through the Careful Dance of How the UK Society Works, would still pick up on it, because the barrier for entry into "what's discrimination" is in a different theme park.

 * I hope I'm explaining this okay. Our goalposts for society are in a different area, but we've still got goalposts for racism. After all, having to be a little more snide, a bit more of a curtain-twitcher never really stopped a racist from expressing their views, making their point, doing their harm and getting away with it. People just figure out different ways they can do that stuff, and keep their jobs and families. (See this and this comedy bit from Netflix and Live At The Apollo, which explain the point I'm trying to get across far more succinctly than I've done here.)

 * In the same sense, discrimination in Japan still exists - but if your frame of reference is one where racist views and discrimination is overt, then obviously, you might think that "unconscious discrimination is more accurate than institutional discrimination". Because it would be that way, if you went through it with a different frame of reference. It'd be like me going to the US, picking up a copy of the Guardian, and finding out that they're not as institutionally transphobic as the UK version. For a brief moment, you get a feeling of respite. It feels a little bit like, if not a holiday, a light breather.

 * However, I'd not put "unconscious discrimination" under any circumstances. I don't think I can be any less vague in saying that "unconscious" washes responsibility from the hands of those who may be expressing discriminatory views, implies to the reader that they don't really mean it - a little like visiting one's racist uncle for Thanksgiving and being told that, in some ways, It's Just You Who Has A Problem, Dear - and also really ignores the existence of a), minorities - including black Japanese people - within Japanese society, and b), plays a little too much into "Culturally Rich but Societally Backwards" stereotypes that typically trail around the East like cans on a wedding car.

 * It's not the right choice here. Just because discrimination in Japan feels more subtle, it doesn't mean it is more subtle if you're the one experiencing it, fully within the societal context of Japan. The word "unconscious" kind of relies on the reader keeping some level of distance from this context, and it's not fair if a traveller has to keep their mental distance from the country they're visiting moreso than someone who's not in the same minority class as them.

 * Every country around the world hosts institutional discrimination, which within its context and when parroted by the people who ensure its continued existence, probably feels like an unconscious bias. But just because someone may not be aware of their bias, it by no way means that it is not institutional.

 * Lastly, I leave this link to a Youtube channel called The Black Experience Japan. I think it should clear up some of the uncertainties in this thread; it features a variety of half hour, ish, interviews with people who've lived or visited Japan in a number of different circumstances, time periods and for a number of different reasons. I feel it would be deeply remiss not to include this as part of the section on Discrimination in this article.

 * I hope that this can be of some use to you - and I apologise if I've gone over things that have already been dealt with. It's quite late for me, and as shitty and unprofessional as it is, I haven't had the time to backread this thread, so if it seems like I'm going over things for no reason, please forgive me. --Ineffablebookkeeper (not logged in)

Proposed change
I think the conversation will go nowhere without a proposal, so I propose this wording (for the first paragraph only): Violent attacks against foreigners in Japan are almost unheard of. While it's becoming increasingly rare, there may still be a small handful of onsen and restaurants that refuse foreign people. Some apartments, motels, night clubs, and public baths in Japan have been known to put up signs stating that foreigners are not allowed or that they must be accompanied by a Japanese person to enter. Such places are rare, however, and many Japanese claim that the prohibitions are due to perceived social incompatibility (for example, foreigners may not understand proper bathhouse etiquette) and not racism.

If someone wants to insert information about black people, please answer what discrimination black people face that is different from every other foreigner so we can then discuss its prevalence and level of importance as it relates to inclusion in this article. Simply saying "systemic discrimination" is a cop-out and sounds quite scary. It's a way to claim something exists without proof. So far in the discussion above, no one has given ANY examples in spite of having feelings that we should mention black or "dark people". Should black travelers be especially on guard in Japan? If so, explain why. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 13:17, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your input. Sorry, it took me so long to translate and understand the text that I couldn't participate in the discussion. Thank you for your suggestions. I think it's good. The fine nuances of English are difficult for me to understand, so it would be helpful if you all could brush up on them. If I may add, it's about restaurants. There's a lot of talk about restaurants, but some restaurants are often unfriendly. There are sometimes shops that are kind to regular customers and unfriendly to new customers, and this is no exception to the Japanese. That could be perceived as racism. The issue of discrimination is a very difficult one that has no easy answer. This is a page of travel information. Writing detailed information about detailed discrimination is better done on wikipedia, which requires a source.--コイコイ (talk) 16:04, 6 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Support ChubbyWimbus' proposed wording. JRHorse (talk) 23:09, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll take it as a compromise. As for black people, in terms of getting assaulted for their race, the risk is almost none. I've spoken to black people who have lived in Japan before, and what they experienced was more of an annoyance than anything else. For instant, one complaint I have heard is that Japanese women like to just go up to black men an touch their hair. The dog2 (talk) 16:09, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Since there have been no objections, I went ahead and made the changes. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 13:09, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Length of article again
A while back we cut down this article from being by the far the longest country article in Wikivoyage to just being very long. Since then it has been consistently growing longer and longer as well-intentioned contributors add words here and there, extra bits of information, and repetition. I think it is time to start cutting the jungle back again so that readers can find the information they need more easily. I will start by moving most of the ryokan information to a separate article. Ryokans are a quintessential Japanese travel experience, deserving of their own article, but not of interest to all readers. Assistance from other contributors would be welcome in moving information to other articles, cutting back on excess verbiage, and refraining from packing into this one article everything nd anything that relates to Japan. Thanks. Ground Zero (talk) 13:29, 7 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I have created a Ryokan article. Additions would be welcome. Ground Zero (talk) 19:12, 8 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I have moved the lengthy information about buying a phone to the Working and studying in Japan article, and have left a note in the main article indicating that you can buy a phone even if your stay will be short. Most travellers won't buy a phone, but many workers and students will, so I think this is a good way of moving some very detailed, very specific text that will be of interest only to a small group out of the main article to improve readability. The few travellers considering buying a phone will be able to find the information easily by clicking on the link provided. Ground Zero (talk) 04:49, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Input requested - urban camping
There's a deletion discussion at Votes for deletion which could use input from people who are knowledgeable about Japan. —Granger (talk · contribs) 17:00, 14 October 2020 (UTC)

9th "Other destination"
Given that there is only 8 destinations in the #Other destinations section, what should the 9th be? Any ideas? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:23, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

 * Shikoku currently has 0 cities and other destinations so probably somewhere from there my first thought is the 88 shrine pilgrimage but this is an itinerary and I'm not sure if itineraries can be listed as other destinations. Other choices include Iya Valley, Naoshima and Muroto Misaki. I'm leaning towards Naoshima as japan's art scene is not represented by the current list. For non-shikoku options I'd pick Kiso Valley which I'm currently working on (though it is an extra hierarchal region).  Tai123.123 (talk) 04:33, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

 * I can't really think of any places now. I don't think we can list cities in the "other destinations" section. But sure, things like national parks qualify. Any recommendations? The dog2 (talk) 04:39, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * @The dog2 Naoshima is not a city, it's an island with a population of 3,000 and a large art scene, I feel it fulfills criteria as an other destination. Tai123.123 (talk) 04:41, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I had a look at 日本 for more ideas. Seems like the Japanese Wikivoyage doesn't have city/other destination lists. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:45, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * @SHB2000 Looking at Japan Guide's Shikoku Page I fee; konpirasan in Kotohira is also a good choice
 * Here is my ranking

 * 1)  Naoshima
 * 2)  Ogasawara Islands
 * 3)  88 Shrines (though I'm unsure if i can list itineraries here)
 * 4)  Kompirasan
 * 5)  Kiso Valley (biased cause I've worked on it
 * 6)  Iya Valley
 * 7)  Muroto Misaki, would be at number 5 if it had an article Tai123.123 (talk) 04:52, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I also like the idea of listing an Isolated island like the Ogasawara islands Tai123.123 (talk) 04:57, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I Added Ogasawara to the other destinations as a placeholder till consensus is made Tai123.123 (talk) 00:57, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * @コイコイ, @JRHorse @The dog2, Naoshima sseems like the most brought up destination, can i add it Tai123.123 (talk) 04:46, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Also do we all agree that Shirakawa-go should replace Japan alps which is disambiguation Tai123.123 (talk) 04:47, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * @SHB2000 Can I formerly end the disscusion formally adding Naoshima as it seems it is the most supported option and no one other than me has commented in 3 days. Tai123.123 (talk) 00:28, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Sure, go ahead and add Naoshima. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:34, 17 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Ok I did Tai123.123 (talk) 00:36, 17 September 2021 (UTC)

We do not have to have a 9th. The policy says we should have around 7 places in a list, which we interpret as "7 plus or minus 2". We can have 9 (or 8, 7, 6 or 5), but we should never add a place just for the sake of having 9. Ground Zero (talk) 10:57, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * True... but I'm sure there's some good place in Japan that has to go there. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:17, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I am in agreement with Ground Zero in regards to the policy. That being said, my suggestion for a ninth location would be Himeji. However, that destination is already covered in Japan's Top 3. JRHorse (talk) 14:09, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

The Japanese WV is still new. Its content is mostly nonexistent at the moment, even for Japanese cities. Naoshima is indisputably a city (a town to be specific), but I think the "no city" rule is meant to prevent a place like Takamatsu from being listed rather than any place that is an administrative district. Naoshima is known an an "art island" which is the type of place that fits "Other destinations" quite well (I'm surprised it's not on Shikoku's page. I'll add it). In Shikoku, I think Naoshima or the 88 Temple Pilgrimage are the only sites that might be able to sit near a top 9. As much as I like Shikoku, I'm not sure it has enough of the "Other destination" types of sites of a high enough fame/caliber. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 15:23, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) I think Shirakawa-go should be added, perhaps as a replacement for the Japan Alps. I never noticed that's a disambiguation page. Disambiguation pages should never be part of the "Top 9".
 * 2) Takachiho and Dewa Sanzan are also top-knotch choices.
 * 3) Ise Shrine could also work.

 * Support decision to replace alps with Shirakawa-go, should I replace the Japan alps on the chubu page also (perhaps with Kamikochi) Tai123.123 (talk) 20:35, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't know what kind of place overseas people are looking for, but if you want to feel the old Japan,
 * 1) Ise Shrine（伊勢神宮）, is ancient destination for travel, in Japan in the 18th century, travel meant going to Ise Jingu.
 * 2) Izumo（出雲）, is place that is said to be the birthplace of Japanese mythology. It is said that all Japanese gods will gather in Izumo in October.
 * 3) If you are looking for a modern tourist destination, Naoshima（直島） is a major tourist destination, as others have said.--コイコイ (talk) 02:17, 11 September 2021 (UTC)

 * My only problem with Ise is that religous structures are already represented with Miyajima and Koya San. Tai123.123 (talk) 04:26, 11 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Currently 5 out of the 9 are islands. Variety is appreciated, though. Takachiho is religious but also known for its scenic beauty if that would be better. I'm warming up a bit to the idea of Naoshima, though. I'll switch out the Japan Alps for Shirakawa-go, and I also agree that Kamikochi is an appropriate switch-out in the Chubu region article. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 12:37, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * I feel Dewa Sanzan and Osorezan are a better mix of religion and nature than takachiho as I feel the appeal of takacchiho for foreign tourists is purely natural Tai123.123 (talk) 04:29, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

New banners
New banner candidates are up for Talk:Chubu, Talk:Shizuoka (prefecture), Talk:Fuji, Talk:Hakone, Talk:Kanto, Talk:Tokyo (prefecture), Talk:Tokyo, Talk:Tokyo/Shinjuku, Talk:Tokyo/Ginza, Talk:Tokyo/Minato, Talk:Tokyo/Bunkyo, Talk:Tokyo/Chiyoda, Talk:Kyoto/Central, Talk:Kansai, Talk:Tohoku, Talk:Japan's Top 3, Kanazawa, Talk:Miyagi and Talk:Working and studying in Japan. Here are some banner candidates which we could consider for Japan as a whole. /Yvwv (talk) 01:12, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Banner three SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:24, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * For more details, I prefer 3a, not 3b. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:20, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

 * These are a bunch of great banners, but I feel like the current one still expresses the entire country best. After that, I suppose I would choose #2, #3, #5, #4 and #1, but maybe #4 is too specific to Tokyo and should be flipped with #1. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:33, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

 * New banner candidates. Let the current banner be suggestion 0. /Yvwv (talk) 02:02, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Three Tai123.123 (talk) 02:03, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Actually I like the first one the most Tai123.123 (talk) 03:32, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I mean the current one with lanterns Tai123.123 (talk) 03:33, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
 * #3a for Japan, then #2, #5. Ground Zero (talk) 03:55, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * East Asia's banner is not a scenery. Mongolia is the only East Asian country with a scenery banner. And only five of Japan's nine regions have natural or rural sceneries. That is, in my opinion, a case for a scenery banner. /Yvwv (talk) 06:33, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Zero (The current one) It's a nice banner and it's not in another article. Banner 3 is already being used. We shouldn't be reusing banners in multiple articles. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 09:32, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * No, we definitely should not. However, if the current banner is replaced here, I think it would be superior to the existing banner in Japanese phrasebook. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:20, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I have provisionally replaced some banners where there was a clear majority of votes. Some of our Japanese banners are still of poor quality; please make more votes and banner candidates. /Yvwv (talk) 22:16, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

 * I just stumbled upon this. I'd say 3A would be far superior and evocative as a page banner for Japan. JRHorse (talk) 12:50, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * To change a country banner we should need a supermajority. Added suggestion 7 with the same view as 3, but the whole of Fuji's shape. Can also be considered for local articles. Can we settle for any of the Chureito & Fuji banners as contender to the current banner? /Yvwv (talk) 23:55, 9 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 7 looks good as well! Either that or 3A would be my vote. Does it have to come down to one of those two? :) JRHorse (talk) 04:03, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 7, 3a, current. --Onwa (talk) 05:14, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I would vote for 7, which has not been used for any article, with 3A as a secondary candidate. /Yvwv (talk) 19:13, 19 June 2022 (UTC)

Many grey dots on Dynamic Maps
Why are there grey markers covering the Shinkansen routes and how can we remove them? Thank you! Tai123.123 (talk) 06:46, 11 October 2021 (UTC)

 * I agree. It looks terrible and obfuscates the actual destinations (and basically the entire country in general). ChubbyWimbus (talk) 09:28, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
 * it can be fixed by fixing the  parameter, but I can't seem to fix it for some reason. Maybe its something to do with wikidata? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 00:30, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * @ChubbyWimbus @SHB2000 I commented out the shinkansen lines and that fixed it though you can no longer see the Shinkansen lines, I'd like to have the shinkansen without the grey dots but i feel it's better this way Tai123.123 (talk) 01:55, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * This is definitely better than before. Thanks both of you. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 11:54, 12 October 2021 (UTC)
 * (-: SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:58, 12 October 2021 (UTC)

Japanese Gardens
I created a Japanese gardens page, if you are knowledgeable about japanese gardens please help. Tai123.123 (talk) 04:38, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Thanks for starting it. I don't know too much about Japanese gardens in Japan, so I'll leave it to you and, unless if we want to include foreign Japanese gardens as well. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:09, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * @SHB2000 There's an international section at the bottom, if you know of any japanese garden in australia please add them. Tai123.123 (talk) 06:14, 13 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't know many here, but I do some in the US. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:15, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Typhoon Nanmadol
Should there be warning or caution boxes up for Japan because of the typhoon, or should we wait until the damage has been assessed? JRHorse (talk) 15:57, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

 * Those travelling now might appreciate a warningbox being there already. –LPfi (talk) 16:50, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, done. Will see how things shape out over the next couple of days. JRHorse (talk) 17:47, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Smart cards
The warning is warranted because not being able to buy smart cards is really weird, quite inconvenient, and easily worked around if you know about it in advance. Plus this is a temporary state of affairs that will go away once Sony or whoever gets their shit together.

AFAIK it is not possible to buy regular Suica/Pasmo anymore, even at the airport. The 28-day expiry of the tourist cards, which are still available, is mentioned and highlighted.

The Android apps are useless on non-Japanese phones without osaifu-keitai, because they can't be used as cards. For Apple phones, Apple Wallet works fine, there's little added value to installing the dedicated app.

The rest of my edits was for duplicated or excessively verbose content, people can draw their own conclusions about (eg) whether they should use cash or credit to buy a card. Jpatokal (talk) 07:28, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

 * I put the expiry of the tourist cards into the caution box, because this is actually something to be very cautious about. A situation that is the current status-quo is hardly anything you can be cautious about, you just have to accept it. Also, I barely believe it will be temporary, especially if someone at the card companies does the maths on how much money tourists let expire with these tourist cards. But I am happily looking forward of you convincing me of the contrary in let's say 2-3 years. Everything else is speculation and WV is not a place to spread company propaganda ... who know what is the real reason for the decision. As I said before, these cards (tourist and non-tourist) use the same technology, it doesn't make sense that "chips" are the real reason for this change. Furthermore, why would any new technology come with such a short expiry date, suddenly the new RFID chips go explode after a few months? That seems all BS to me. But please provide me with an independent source that explains all this technology change properly.
 * Furthermore, it is not true that smart cards are overly accepted by Japanese, maybe in Tokyo, but in other regions the situation is much different as it was explained to me. Hence, I adjusted the wording of the importance of the card in Japanese society.
 * I furthermore adjusted some wording and the cash option with Suica.
 * For the rest, I agree with you.
 * Cheers Ceever (talk) 11:34, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Earthquake on 2024-01-01
Just wondering how wikivoyage is handling 2024 Sea of Japan earthquake / WD:2024 Ishikawa earthquake / 2024 Noto Earthquake, which are all synonyms for the same event, I think. Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 22:36, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
 * There seem to be warningboxes at Wajima and Noto Peninsula. —Granger (talk · contribs) 22:38, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Japan


text:
Talk:Japan's Top 100 Cherry Blossom Spots

Umm... this seems pretty arbitrary. Is there a generally-agreed Top 3 for Japan's Top 3, and would that be enough? (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:23, 24 April 2009 (EDT)
 * Well, with Japan, I`m sure there one could find some top three list somewhere, but I've never seen one, and I definitely don't think there would be a generally agreed upon list... Japan has a lot of top 100 lists, too, actually. Since cherry blossom viewing is one of the most popular things to do in Japan, I thought guides specifically about it could be helpful. I have a lot of cherry blossom guides for Kyoto (and surrounding areas), so I considered making a page just for that, but because this lists places all over the country, I thought it could be useful for more people.

I had wondered if it was more of a Wikipedia-type article, but in the end, these sort of lists are travel topics. I feel like this is the sort of thing that would be welcome by Wikivoyage once the site has established a more substantial archive of worthwhile travel guides, but I had the same thoughts you do, so I`m not so attached to this article. If you want to nominate it for deletion, I wouldn`t be offended. (I was honestly wanting to get input prior to starting the article, but I wasn't sure exactly how to go about that, since discussion pages can only be used for already existing articles) (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 01:15, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

 * (If by "arbitrary" you are suggesting that this list is my own personal list, it is not. It's the "official" top 100, just like the "official" Top 3 lists.) (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 05:55, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

 * Do you have a link to the "official" list? The problem I have with this is that while a "Top 3" is nice, manageable and generally pretty much agreed on, Top 100 is way too much to be digestible (what are you going to do, visit them all?).

 * Incidentally, ja-WP doesn't seem to have any "top 3 sakura" lists, aside from the rather less interesting "top 3 old sakura trees" and "top 3 night sakura" lists. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:11, 24 April 2009 (EDT)

 * I'd suggest giving the list some shape — break it down to regions, and then within each region, select a few stand-outs for detailed write-ups, with the rest listed below. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 01:01, 25 April 2009 (EDT)

 * I certainly wouldn't expect someone to use this kind of list to see them all, but since every region/prefecture is represented, it could be used to find a good spot nearby, no matter where you are. Naturally, those who are around somewhere like Kyoto have enough options, but someone further away from the stereotypical destinations may find it more useful. There are other top 100s, such as biking trails, sounds, castles, etc. The lists appear to always be released first as books.(If you're worried that I'll try to translate all of them, don't worry. I wasn't planning on that!

The 100 list was designated by the Japan Cherry Blossom Association in 1990 and they wrote a book (I see their translation is "100 Famous Cherry Blossom Viewpoints". This isn't the site I used, but it's the official site, and they are listed there, along with other spots:

It's more of a Japan travel topic than an actual itinerary, for the reason you stated (even if someone wanted to see them all, with the short span they are in bloom for, I don't think it would be possible to do in the same year). I am glad to get some feedback, though. Look over the site and if it still seems useless, tell me. If it doesn't seem useful, I don't want to continue posting the list. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 08:40, 25 April 2009 (EDT)

 * I think it needs commentary to make it worthwhile — select a few stand-outs (ideally with photos). You might also give some indication as to when the sakura blossom there (early, mid, late in the season). (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 09:14, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

 * Just wanted to echo Gorilla's idea of splitting it up by regions — I think there's potential here after all. (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:22, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

 * In my opinion at least, this is a pretty neat resource, given it's translation from a primary source, and arguably related to Japan's most famous "See" attraction. Sorta wish I stumbled on it sooner: sooooo... is there any need for it to be tucked away like a sad and lonely orphan? Or should this perhaps be linked in on the top-level country page and Yoshino? Not going to do this myself, given it seems a definitive conclusion wasn't reached above and I wasn't around for the discussion, but it could be nice.(WT-en) Snave 07:22, 6 March 2011 (EST)

 * I had kind of kept it hidden for a while because I hadn't translated it completely, but I suppose now it should be linked. I added a link under "Do" in the Japan article but the attractions listed could also link from their respective articles. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 13:39, 7 March 2011 (EST)

Improvements
I am wondering how others view the article as it is structured currently and how you think it could be improved. -What could be added? For example: some websites also add night light-up info. Include the site's name in Japanese as written on the official list? The kind of cherry blossoms (most are yoshino sakura but there are other varieties)?

I do think a general temperature/blooming chart could be useful in the Understand section to give a general idea before looking at the specific sites in each region.

I need to get descrptions for a site in each region (like Tohoku, Kansai, and Chugoku have currently) but there aren't pictures of the outstanding places I've chosen on Commons.

Is there anything you think would be useful to add to this that I've left out? Or any other ways to improve the article? ChubbyWimbus (talk) 17:02, 1 March 2013 (UTC)

 * What is the significance of the mauve background and larger size text chosen for Tohoku, Kansai and Chugoku, please?
 * Why do 71., Nara Park, and 81., Kakuzan Park occur twice, please? -- A l i c e ✉ 07:36, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

 * From the discussion above, some people suggested highlighting the best/some unique spots of each region to give more information about. Those are the only three regions I've done it for so far (I've chosen some standouts from the other regions, but there are no images of them currently available). Do you think it should be mentioned what they are/why there are featured spots at the beginning of each region or do you have a better idea on how to present them? Or do you dislike them completely?

 * Thanks for commenting! Aside from finishing the features, I'm just a little stuck on how to level up this guide. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 15:20, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

 * I think they should not appear twice and the colour and text size should be toned down a little. I'll try and find the time to do that, so just revert me if you don't like it. -- A l i c e ✉ 20:46, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Do you think it would not look like a double-listing if instead of the number, it said something like, "Featured Spot:", "Regional Highlight:", "(something else with a similar meaning)"? ChubbyWimbus (talk) 07:10, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I think the distinctive colour background, larger font, and left located image are all enough together to distinguish the current three listings as something special. What do you think of the changes, I've recently made? The thumbnail format allows readers to just click to enlarge each image. -- A l i c e ✉ 07:49, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

 * My only concern about having the feature appear within the list (where its number is located) is that to me it looks like we intend to make all of them like that but we just haven't gotten around to it while having the feature at the top of each region looks more like a special feature that is not going to transfer to every entry. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 12:14, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is a valid concern. What solution do you propose?
 * PS: What do I call you? Chubby, Wimbus, ChubbyWimbus, or something else entirely (preferably shorter to type)? -- A l i c e ✉ 21:16, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

 * That's why I thought that if we keep the features at the top and write something like 'Regional Highlight' it might make our intent clearer as to why we've singled out one spot.
 * I suppose I prefer ChubbyWimbus as it is, although I've seen my name shortened to CW a few times by other users. It doesn't bother me. All except just 'Chubby' I suppose, which doesn't sound good by itself. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 04:31, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

 * Are the numbers and numeric order important? -- A l i c e ✉ 06:27, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

 * The numbers have meaning but not in terms of rank. The numbers indicate the location of the spot in Japan from north to south. They also separate sites by region and prefecture, so that the number listings of all sites within the same prefecture are listed consecutively. The numbers also appear on the official list which kind of makes them set as well. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 06:07, 9 March 2013 (UTC)
 * So is it important that we keep in synch with this official list? Or is this list intended to improve on and be a better replacement for that official list? -- A l i c e ✉ 07:28, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

 * This article is only meant to show the list as it was created by the Cherry Blossom Association with whatever additional information we deem useful to provide about each place. It's not meant for anyone to add their favorite non-listed spots and certainly not to create our own list (there was strong objection to that in the original section above when other users misunderstood the article and thought these were all my own personal favorites). When I originally translated the article, this list could not be found as far as a Google search could find. Now there are others, many of which were copied from here. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 09:56, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

I've changed them to show what I was thinking. Now they say "Regional Highlight". I got rid of the number on the highlight because it looked awkward. I also got rid of the extra info to avoid double-listing but I'm not against it if you think it looks better that way. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 12:46, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Regional Highlights
Just in case anyone has pictures or wants to discuss what the highlights should be, I will list the places that I'd like to feature in each region. If you have pictures of them with cherry blossoms or would like to go to the spot and get the shot the next time they bloom, please do! ChubbyWimbus (talk) 12:47, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Hokkaido: Sakura Namiki Street, It's popular for drivers who seek cherry blossoms, and although the other site is more famous, Tohoku and Chugoku are already castle sites and I want to showcase a variety of experiences.
 * Tohoku: Hirosaki Castle (already featured), It's one of the designated top three cherry blossom festivals and is unofficially one of the best period according all of the rave reviews it consistently receives.
 * Kanto: Akaginanmen Cherry Blossoms, they're iconic for cherry blossoms in the trees combined with the purple shibazakura on the ground.
 * Chubu: Shinsakai Riverside, This is a nice spot with the added intrigue of having two train lines run through the blossoming area. It's really popular as a place to take photos of the blossoms with the trains. I also considered Usuzumi Park to feature the single tree which is a popular aspect of cherry blossom-viewing among Japanese.
 * Kansai: Nara Park (already featured), It has a unique, natural feel while still being among other sites and the deer make it special for a lot of people.
 * Chugoku: Kakuzan Park (already featured), often declared the best in the region, the varied levels created by the castle ruins makes for many great views of the blossoms
 * Shikoku: Kagamino Park, One of Japan's famous "sakura tunnels" where the cherry blossoms align both sides of the path and meet at the top, these tunnels are a sought-after viewing experience.
 * Kyushu and Okinawa: I was thinking either Ichifusa Dam or the Minamata Cherry Line

Why Does This Article Use Title Case
Well, excuse the deliberate irony of the section header, but shouldn't this be moved to Japan's top 100 cherry blossom spots per our capitalization guidelines? -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 04:00, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * It's an official title/list name rather than an original WV title, so it may fall under "Proper names". Narrow Road to the Deep North is also an official title and is capitalized. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:51, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Improvements
User talk:Hnishy63, I added the Japanese names to the article, but I was wondering if you think there are other things to add. There are not many contributors who know Japan or these lists, but if you have ideas, I'm interested in ways to improve this article. If not, that's okay, too. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 13:42, 29 January 2024 (UTC)