text:
Talk:Edmonton/North

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Comments
Sertmann: Thank you ;), but I would have rather you discussed this with me first. Thank you though, I will create the other districts rightaway. (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 20:54, 23 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast

 * Don't make me put you two in a corner ;) I expect this city to be fully districted before dinner – (WT-en) cacahuate   talk 21:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

See&Do
I was wondering what YOU, yes you, you, humanoid of what you thought of combining See and Do. There won't be much in both, so combining them would make it longer, plus i've seen it in other sections. I think it would be appropriate, what do you think? Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 20:14, 28 October 2008 (EDT)

 * Having standard formats for articles is IMO more valuable than adapting the categories for each place. --(WT-en) Inas 20:42, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Alright. Any other opinions?  Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 20:51, 28 October 2008 (EDT)
 * If you've seen it elsewhere, it should be separated there too. Having a See section is mandatory, having a Do section is optional, but combining them just doesn't jive with the fundamental organizational scheme we have in place. (WT-en) Texugo 02:48, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Kay, Thanks! Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 10:26, 29 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Why is the see mandatory? What if you don't have enough stuff......Keep smiling ,(WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 14:43, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

itty-bitty question
do you think this article is almost ready for useable? keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 15:16, 30 October 2008 (EDT)

Rexall Edmonton Indy
Where should I put it? It is your normal Indy race (Indianapolis Indy) - Do or See? You go out and do stuff such as go in the cars, meet the drivers, chat with friends, but you See the cars, races, driving, etc. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 18:35, 18 December 2008 (EST).

title: Talk:Edmonton/North


text:
Talk:Edmonton/South

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

I really need some help!
I am working a lot on the districtifying, but I seriously need help with East, East Central, and Mill Woods sections. Any takers? Even a little beit? (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 17:55, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

guide
Hope you don't mind I upgraded it to the guide. It isn't going to really get much better and it is well written. Weak, but its guide. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 01:54, 13 December 2008 (EST).

 * I knocked it back to usable. It doesn't have any "get in" information, and the prose is poor, rife with grammatical mistakes and an over the top informal tone. Generally, if you describe an article as "weak," it's not a guide. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 03:21, 13 December 2008 (EST)

 * If it is weak, then Winnipeg should be usable, because Gorilla said it is a weak guide. Thats where I got the idea from.  Anyways, if you find gram mistakes then fix them, don't just report them please because you know where they are.  Could you ellaborate further on how to fix it perhaps?  (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee]  .T.A.L.K. 17:44, 13 December 2008 (EST).

Pretty simple: if it has any empty sections, it's not a guide. 'Get in' is empty, and 'Get around' doesn't really sketch out the options. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 18:29, 13 December 2008 (EST)
 * Thankyou Gorilla. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee]  .T.A.L.K. 12:48, 14 December 2008 (EST).

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Edmonton/South


text:
Talk:Edmonton/South Central

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Whyte
I am wondering if the Whyte Avenue (82) NW is any good? (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 21:52, 1 December 2008 (EST).

Rename?
Should this article be renamed? I mean it's a generic name, that really works best only for Central. I would think perhaps Old Strathcona-University or Old Strathcona and Area but I don't know. Any names you can think of? (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 17:51, 19 December 2008 (EST).

 * If we go with Old Scona - Uni should it be Old Strathcona - University of Alberta or Old Strathcona - University ? (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee]  .T.A.L.K. 13:24, 20 December 2008 (EST).

Goodness?
Sorry for bringing up another one of these topics, but I am just not sure on this and I'd really like feedback. It isn't for me and the other's who've edited the page to get a progress report. It is more of what does need to be fixed. Lately, I think that there is just something wrong with the article. Something about just dosn't look good, I just cannot figure out what. So, lemme know if you think the same, and if you have suggestions to improve. Happy holidays,(WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 12:37, 25 December 2008 (EST).

title: Talk:Edmonton/South Central


text:
Talk:Edmonton/West End

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Comments
Can others still edit this?(WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 21:03, 23 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast
 * Yes, I just did! – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 21:14, 23 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Heh, thanks :) (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 21:16, 23 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast

Suggestion?
Can anyone help me in adding more information?(WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 13:42, 24 October 2008 (EDT)

Hooters?
Should we have a listing for Hooters? I know it is like global but it is very unique and they don't have multiple locations/city in Canada (except Toronto). I am just wondering. There isn't really anything different about it from a regular one from my knowledge, but I think it should be in there. It is not like Dennys or Perkins. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 19:41, 9 December 2008 (EST).
 * I'd say no. Hooter's is an international chain (they even have them here in Japan), which is one minus, and it has limited appeal as many female travellers wouldn't consider going there. (WT-en) Texugo 22:43, 9 December 2008 (EST)
 * So and so? It's unique even though I don't particularily like it and it's not like McDonalds where there is 400 per city.  (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee]  .T.A.L.K. 19:29, 18 December 2008 (EST).
 * Unique it is not. And the only attraction there is not the food, not the service, not the atmosphere, just girls wearing revealing clothing. To say otherwise is a kind of "I only read Playboy for the articles" type argument. (WT-en) Texugo 19:50, 18 December 2008 (EST)

 * Just cause you obviously don't like it doesn't mean people don't want to hit up the local hooter's. I don't like it either, but I am thinking of all sorts of people that may like it.  It is like having a Prada store or a LV store, they are scarce too (1 per city, and prada like 3 in NA).  (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee]  .T.A.L.K. 20:07, 18 December 2008 (EST).
 * I didn't even say I don't like it. I just don't think it is appropriate for a travel guide. 220.99.170.103 20:30, 18 December 2008 (EST)

 * The way you put everything assumes that you don't. Actions speak louder than words -it's true.  I would like to get someone else in, cause we need a new perspective.  (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee]  .T.A.L.K. 20:50, 18 December 2008 (EST).

Hooters is not unique, and including an international chain in this guide makes Edmonton look like a place without local flavor. And that's a thing you want to avoid when writing a travel guide. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:17, 18 December 2008 (EST)

River Cree
There is a big casino called River Cree Resort and Casino, but the problem is, it isn't in Edmonton. The actual city border is right across the street, though. Should it be put here or in the First Nations Land - where that would be the only thing. (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 14:59, 19 December 2008 (EST).
 * Try to ignore the actual city limits; they're rarely of interest to the traveler. (WT-en) LtPowers 15:42, 19 December 2008 (EST)
 * Thanks.  (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee]  .T.A.L.K. 15:44, 19 December 2008 (EST).

title: Talk:Edmonton/West End


text:
Talk:Edmonton Capital Region

ECR and the Alberta Geographical hierarchy
There is a Project:Geographical hierarchy, and in that hierarchy, Alberta contains various regions including Central Alberta, which contains Edmonton. This region article overlaps with Central Alberta. Should the Alberta region structure be changed to include an Edmonton Capital Region? Maybe so, but please let's discuss that in Talk:Alberta. (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 02:29, 23 October 2008 (EDT)

 * Yes it should, See Talk:Alberta. (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 13:02, 23 October 2008 (EDT)Edmontonenthusiast

atop
North America : Canada : Alberta : Central Alberta : Edmonton : Edmonton Capital Region Can someone put that at the top? Thanks! Happy first day of snow in Edmonton, (WT-en) ee talk 18:07, 11 November 2008 (EST).

 * No - but you can, just add Edmonton below all the article text -- (WT-en) Sertmann 18:37, 11 November 2008 (EST)

 * Wait you are missing up the hierarchy - this should be in Alberta Alberta

 * Thanks mate! Happy first day of snow in Edmonton, (WT-en) ee  talk 18:49, 11 November 2008 (EST).

Todo?
What to do with this article? I am thinking just giving basic background and list the cities. The cities should have the listings. That's what I'm thinking. Keep smiling, (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee] .T.A.L.K. 20:32, 20 November 2008 (EST).

title: Talk:Edmonton Capital Region


text:
Talk:Edson

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Any Edsonians out there ¡
Any people from Edson out there, or regularily travel to the town? If so, please, feel free to edit this page.

title: Talk:Edson


text:
Talk:Edwards AFB

VFD Discussion
The base is only open to current military US personnel. The only way for civilians to visit is as part of an organized tour for which you need reservations and which only occurs on the first and third Friday of each month from 9AM-2:30PM. If you did visit, you wouldn't be allowed to just wander around-- you'd See and Do only what they allowed you to as part of the tour, eat lunch and shop wherever they take you, and there is no lodging for civilians. I doubt that non-citizens can visit at all. Anyway, it is clearly not an article-- it really doesn't deserve more than a couple of lines at Lancaster (California) or Mojave.
 * Merge and redirect - (WT-en) Texugo 21:31, 11 April 2010 (EDT)
 * Merge and redirect - clearly an attraction and not an article. An easy one. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 22:13, 11 April 2010 (EDT)

Result: Merge template added for Mojave. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 23:51, 20 May 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Edwards AFB


text:
Talk:Edwinstowe

I moved this page because Edwinstowe seems to be the name of the town, and Sherwood Forest is a major attraction. It also needs to be fixed to work more like the small city article template. -- (WT-en) Evan 08:22, 7 Nov 2003 (PST)

Edwinstowe is actually a village, and has 11 pubs. One of which is incorrectly called Ma Bell's on this page, it is actually called Ma Hubbards. I'll correct this page later in the day when I have more time. (WT-en) RDS 08:45, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

I've rewritten and expanded content. However I propose we undo the redirect, and move content back to Sherwood Forest, since that is the main draw. Edwinstowe is just a small service village. The "city" format works okay. --Grahamsands (talk) 17:16, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Have only recently merge Sherwood Forest with Edwinstowe and moved and created some information in new Robin Hood topic. I think keeping Sherwood Forest an attraction in this location article works. --Traveler100 (talk) 17:20, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the great text on Robin Hood, I have moved it to the ravel Topic page (which still has lots of scope for expansion). --Traveler100 (talk) 17:21, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Edwinstowe


text:
Talk:Efteling

Hmm, I'm not sure if this qualifies under Project:What's an article?. Maybe it would be better off as an attraction in the Kaatsheuvel guide? I don't know the park or the town so I thought I'd ask first! (WT-en) Majnoona 21:28, 16 July 2006 (EDT)

 * The same question occurred to me, so I did a bit of research, particularly http://www.efteling.com/ From what I could tell (the park maps are a bit... cartoony) the Van Der Disney Efteling hotel provides on-site lodging, so it passes the "sleep there" test.  While "largest theme park in the Netherlands" might not be a particularly difficult contest to win, it appears to be a genuine "destination" in the vernacular sense, with people coming from around BeNeLux just to visit the park.  But it's hard to tell whether it is "in" Kaatsheuvel in the sense that Tivoli is "in" Copenhagen (easily surrounded, in the city center), or in the sense that Disney World is "in" Orlando (in name only)... a question which could tip the scales for one handling or the other. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 22:03, 16 July 2006 (EDT)

 * I think that Todd has it right - it's comparable to articles about the Disney resorts. There's indeed on-side lodging available. Also it isn't practically "in" Kaatsheuvel - that's a small village. The difference with e.g. Tivoli is that one who visits Copenhagen could consider Tivoli one of the attractions, while there's virtually no tourist visiting Kaatsheuvel; if you're in the Benelux there's a good chance of you going to Efteling on its own merit.
 * It's actually large not only for Dutch standards but also in the European theme park context, with about three million visitors yearly. In land size, it's about 20% larger than Disneyland Paris.
 * (WT-en) Tkinkhorst 09:51, 24 August 2006 (EDT)

Open year round
De Efteling is now open the year round (all days), maybe someone could put this in the text with the right style-rules in mind. Furthermore the Pegasus was replaced by Joris en de Draak an new (racer-)coaster.

Loonsche land
This article fails to mention the Loonsche Land accommodation. Could someone please add this?--Lbc07 (talk) 14:56, 15 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Feel free to plunge forward if you think it should be added. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 15:11, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Efteling


text:
Talk:Eger

Casemates
To Ikan Kekek. Casemates. I visited more than twenty years ago the Castle, but I never been on 'Casemates tour'. My guess it is an underground vaulted chamber section of the fortress. This one maybe used for gunpowder storage, armery and/or dungeon. - -Globetrotter19 (talk) 12:51, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I found this link for more info: Casemates (Kazamata) - "Casa Armata" -- Globetrotter19 (talk) 13:39, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I see. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:02, 20 December 2014 (UTC)

Move to Eger (Hungary)
I don't know how common the old German name for Cheb is in English, but I had never heard of this place but had heard of the name "Eger" for Cheb. Maybe a disambiguation could help? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:54, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * If the Czech city is also known by the name "Eger" in English, then a disambiguation page could be useful, otherwise not. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:27, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't know about that. It's possible that the name was common until 1945 and has since disappeared. In German it's about 50:50 with a slight preference for Cheb and a slight correlation with age and/or political orientation... Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:58, 18 May 2016 (UTC)
 * If the Hungarian one is the only one of the two cities officially named Eger, its page should take the title Eger. Such an article could coexist with an Eger (disambiguation) which also links to the Czech city formerly known as Eger. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:57, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * The disambig exists, just with a different capitalization. Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:04, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Can we rename Eger (Hungary) page back to Eger? Cheb is the official name for the town in Czech Republic.--City-busz (talk) 18:09, 19 June 2021 (UTC)

Request to rename Eger (Hungary) back to Eger
It seems to me the move of the Eger article to Eger (Hungary) as discussed has not a valid reason according to the naming conventions, since Eger and Cheb has different official names. Can I request an administrator to rename back the article? --City-busz (talk) 22:20, 21 June 2021 (UTC)
 * If you want but I'm not a sysop here. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 22:24, 21 June 2021 (UTC)

 * No. I'm inclined to trust User:Hobbitschuster who made the move; he or she is a long-term editor here & a German speaker. See also Eger (disambiguation). Pashley (talk) 01:09, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

 * I do not know the region & could easily be wrong, but based on a bit of reading, I'd want to make Eger a redirect to the Hungarian city rather than to the disambig page. As far as I can tell, in English "Eger" more-or-less always means that city. Pashley (talk) 01:16, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The name was changed over 70 years ago. A Google search on Eger (in English) comes up with lots of results for the Hungarian city, and none for the Czech city called Cheb. Eger should be about the Hungarian city . Ground Zero (talk) 02:52, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Even Wikipedia has it as Eger and not Eger (Hungary). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 03:15, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Cheb is near the border with Germany and is thus referred to by its former German name by both Czechs and Germans. Granted, on train announcements you'll hear it as "Cheb" on both sides of the border (though Germans will mispronounce it quite often), but at least in my opinion it is quite helpful to be aware of both names. Hobbitschuster (talk) 07:16, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Never heard about this, and I reckon no non-german person ever has (same as Bratislava is/was known as Pozsony in Hungary, or even Prešporok in Slovak - but noone cares outside V4 countries), and IMO this isn't wikipedia to contain all the tiny details or all the alternative names in foreign languages... Perhaps this may be useful in the :de:WV? A tiny remark in the "normal" Eger article would be better, than having a disambiguation. I'd suggest only to have redirects (+possible disambiguations) in local language and english (e.g. Munchen + Munich), otherwise there may be no end to this (Mnichov, Monachium)... -- andree.sk (talk) 07:44, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

 * I think the concern can be addressed with a top link to Cheb (and a possible remark in Understand, if it is relevant for visitors to Eger). –LPfi (talk) 08:10, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

 * We have Template:Confused for these cases. --City-busz (talk) 11:07, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

 * Just let confused for the job. It'll do it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:37, 24 June 2021 (UTC)

 * @SHB2000: Please do it. --City-busz (talk) 00:44, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

I've moved it. could you help with cleaning up the links to the old article names? Thanks, Ground Zero (talk) 15:59, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I updated the links. Would you consider to delete the page Eger (Disambiguation) too? at least it has a wrong name, the Disambiguation word must not be capitalized. But I think we don't need this page at all.--City-busz (talk) 17:18, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Eger


text:
Talk:Egg Harbor City

If you can add anything nice about our city, Please do! See the Newark source code. I like the breakdown of items on the page! Read the benefits of creating an account.

Article title
Should this article be called Egg Harbour rather than Egg Harbor City? Normally the word City is used to distinguish a city from a (much larger or different) region of the same name. Even then it appears in lower case and only as a disambiguator i.e. (city). I can only think of Atlantic City where the word city is part of the official name. The usage City of + Egg Harbor in the article seems to indicate the most common English name does not have City attached. Moving the page would seem appropriate. Any thoughts? - (WT-en) Huttite 09:01, 28 May 2005 (EDT)

 * I could be wrong, but it seems from the phrasing in the article that the place is always known as "Egg Harbor City" with the word "City" included. If you do a google search for "Egg Harbor City" you get over 600,000 links in which the name is always stated that way. Doing a search for "Egg Harbor New Jersey" mostly returns links about the nearby "Little Egg Harbor Township" which is a different place. -- (WT-en) Mark 11:54, 28 May 2005 (EDT)

 * Interesting! My google search for Egg Harbor turns up Township of Egg Harbor in Atlantic county, Township of Little Egg Harbor in Ocean county, Great Egg Harbour River in Pinelands National Reserve and Egg Harbor in Door County, Wisconsin, all in the first 10 entries. There is even an Egg Harbor restaurant chain that doesn't seem to be anywhere near any place called Egg Harbor, in Illinois! Obviously Egg Harbor needs to be a disambiguation page, but which Egg Harbor is this article refering to? But is it the Township of Egg Harbor in Atlantic county? A further search of Google shows is there another City of Egg Harbor in Atlantic county, New Jersey as well! And if this is the case, the Township of or City of appears to be very fluid as it can go either side of the placename, indicating that the place is normally called Egg Harbor and the City or Township identifies the nature of the community, or the community administration, rather than the destination itself.  Perhaps the most telling is this item [] that refers to all the municipalities in Atlantic county as City of or Township of + Placename. Only Atlantic City is called the City of Atlantic City; hence my question of the use of City in the place name.  However, given there are at least two other places, with one in the same county, both called Egg Harbor, and this place uses Egg Harbor City in its crest, I can tolerate the article retaining the City in the name, to avoid confusion, though I remain unconvinced that it should be a general rule rather than a specific exception in this case. The alternative is to disambiguate as (city, Atlantic county, New Jersey) from (township, Atlantic county, New Jersey), which is probably more confusing and verbose! -- (WT-en) Huttite 19:11, 28 May 2005 (EDT)

 * My understanding is that this fits perfectly with the Most common english name rule. Interestingly enough there are a lot of places in the U.S. in which the most commonly used name for the place includes the word "City", several of them in New Jersey:  Atlantic City is absolutely positively always called that, with the word "City" included.  If we were to name our article otherwise nobody would find it.  There's also a Jersey City for which the same thing is true.  Salt Lake City, Kansas City, Daly City (California).  There's also a chain of amusment parks in the southern U.S. called "Silver Dollar City" but I don't know if any of them warrent articles as I don't know if you sleep there.

 * From time to time people get confused about the most common english name rule, seeming to think that we prefer official names. Sometimes the official name for places with "City" as a part of the most common name will do something different with the word "City", but this is a site for travellers, not for local officials, so I prefer that we stick to the most common rule.

 * By the way, I think New York City is actually the most common use of that one as well. -- (WT-en) Mark 14:00, 29 May 2005 (EDT)

 * Yeah, I think we're really drifting towards consensus on that one. --(WT-en) Evan 20:01, 29 May 2005 (EDT)

title: Talk:Egg Harbor City


text:
Talk:Egypt

Visa on arrival after May 15, 2015
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_policy_of_Egypt and http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/destinations/africaandindianocean/egypt/11512069/Egypt-reverses-visa-on-arrival-ban-for-Britons.html the decision to discontinue visas on arrival after May 15, 2015 was reversed/postponed.

Hala'ib Triangle belongs to Egypt?
The Hala'ib Triangle is under de-facto control of Egypt and claimed by Sudan.

Wikipedia seems to be clear on this, however Wikivoyage maps show clearly the opposite - the Egypt map does not have this area whereas the Sudanese map does.

This seems like a straightforward case like Crimea where we recognize 'defacto' situations on the ground. Does anyone object to fixing this? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:00, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Has this been addressed since? Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:02, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

 * According to Sudan – Egypt (United Arab Republic) Boundary it belongs to Egypt as defined in the 1899's Anglo-Egyptian Condominium but the Hala'ib Triangle was administrated from Wadi Halfa, Sudan, since 1902. State (international) and administrative boundaries differ. Both borders should be shown on maps and the administrative border should be labeled as such a border. Now, Hala'ib triangle is under Egyptian military rule, but it is claimed by both Egypt and Sudan. --RolandUnger (talk) 07:23, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

 * Our map shows this territory to be outside Egypt. Should it be fixed? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 08:31, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

 * Yes, I think so. If it's administered by Egypt, it should be included in our map of Egypt (and excluded from our map of Sudan). —Granger (talk · contribs) 20:22, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

Currency notation
Unlike many countries, Egypt does not have a standard notation for its currency, but instead please use a variety of notations. Adopting a standard notation to use in our Egypt articles would make it easier for Wikivoyage readers to find and understand information here. Which notation should we use? Wikipedia says: "The Egyptian pound is frequently abbreviated as LE or L.E., which stands for livre égyptienne (French for Egyptian pound). E£ and £E are commonly used on the internet." Can anyone confirm what travellers will see most of when they go? Ground Zero (talk) 20:20, 23 March 2017 (UTC) Ground Zero (talk) 11:52, 24 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Xe.com says £
 * oanda says E£
 * Currency converter says E£ or LE
 * fx-rate says E£

So if it is up to me, I'll go with "E£" as being something that will be easy for our readers to understand. While "LE" may also be common in the field, the symbol is easier to distinguish when scanning an article. But I'll wait to see if anyone else has an opinion. Ground Zero (talk) 21:04, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

 * I use LE, example LE 25, and pt. (piasters, example 50 pt.) at the German Wikivoyage because it is in reality -- in Egypt -- the one most used. Nobody uses E£ in Egypt. --RolandUnger (talk) 07:02, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
 * So unless we can convince the people of Egypt to start using the more readable E£, which would be a lot of work, we should probably use LE. Thanks for your input. Ground Zero (talk) 20:36, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

Correct time notation
Could we agree on a consistent time notation for Egypt. I just spoke to someone in Cairo and he said, they are actually using both "15:00" and "3PM". However, he said, using "3PM" is more official.

What do you guys prefer? I am in favour for the "3PM" notation.

Cheers, Ceever (talk) 06:11, 4 January 2018 (UTC)

 * I agree we should be consistent, and if the 12 hour clock is more "official", then let's use that. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:03, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

City maps
These are in Arabic script, so of limited use to Western readers. Can we source versions in Roman alphabet? Grahamsands (talk) 12:50, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I think this was discussed earlier, and Openstreetmap from where the maps are from only had maps with the names in the local script.
 * That said, I think it would be best to have the maps both in Roman and the local script, because the local street and road signs probably only have the names in Arabic (or in Chinese in China etc.). ϒpsilon (talk) 13:41, 20 February 2018 (UTC)

 * The problem is known, under investigation and has a high priority. --RolandUnger (talk) 08:21, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Antibiotics and AMR
The Hygiene section of Eat more or less recommends Antinal for intestinal problems. It warns against long time use, but says nothing about getting infections of resistant bacteria, which I suppose is a very relevant risk, as the antibiotics probably kills a lot of competing microbes. As I do not know the specifics of this case, I do not want to write warnings myself, but I hope somebody could make clear whether my fears are justified. --LPfi (talk) 07:42, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Litter
I added a section to the main page about litter, which was reasonably moved down to the cope section. I wanted to just start a discussion to justify its presence in the main article. I travel all over the world and like anyone else I see the scourge of litter and rubbish that affect so many countries. I am working in Egypt at the moment for a few weeks. The quantities of litter and rubbish here are so far beyond what I have seen any where else that I felt it needed saying in the article. Some of the tourist places are a bit cleaner, but even at the pyramids if you look the other side of some of the walls, there are plenty of discarded food and drink containers. The decent hotels keep their property clean, but a walk down the street and you are back to the litter. It really needs to be seen to be believed. Davidbstanley (talk) 05:18, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I was in Egypt myself, and two weeks there did not leave this impression to me, and I was definitely off the beaten tourist track. Yes, it is dirty, but not particularly more than in other such countries.
 * If this litter section is considered a good idea, then let's also put up one for India, Nepal, Turkey, Morocco and such.
 * Cheers, Ceever (talk) 07:19, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I am in Mahalla, north of Cairo today. The litter here is unbelievable.  I have spent time in Turkey and it is nothing like as bad as here.  I have not been to India, but I spend a lot of time in Bangladesh and even that is no where near as bad as Egypt. Davidbstanley (talk) 20:06, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * I remember looking out the window of my hotel in central Cairo and seeing piles of garbage on rooftops. I don't remember it being as bad in other cities in Egypt. I agree that Turkey is not comparable, but I can't comment on India or Nepal (or Morocco in this century). Ground Zero (talk) 22:08, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Really? We crossed from Nepal from India, and thought Nepal was dirty. But then we hit India and were shocked. 🤷 Ceever (talk) 10:06, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

History and culture
I realize this is a travel guide, but considering that Egypt has one of the longest histories of anyplace on Earth, it seems disrespectful and is certainly jarring to me that it has such a short history section, not to mention the lack of any section on culture. I'd propose mentioning Al Azhar, pan-Arabism and Nasser, the wars with Israel including the Suez Crisis that also involved the UK and France, the peace treaty with Israel, the troubled history of relations with Gaza and the Palestinians in general, and the conflict between the military elite that own much of the country and the Muslim Brotherhood. All of that should be dealt with briefly and can be, but let's see if we can agree on covering that, or whether there are other things to cover.

In terms of culture, Egypt is to my understanding the foremost source of movies, popular music and book publishing in the Arab World, so I think it's worth mentioning that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:53, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Also, even realizing that there's an article about ancient Egypt, I think that highlights like the Library in Alexandria and the Pharos lighthouse which was one of the 7 Wonders of the World should be mentioned. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:59, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Unavailability of tampons
It is not possible to find tampons to buy. It can save a lot of discomfort to simply know this before traveling. Do you have a good idea where to include this information? Best, --Marsupium (talk) 14:53, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd say in Cope. –LPfi (talk) 15:20, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply! All existing subsections didn't seem to fit, put in under a new one, a bit strangely short. Still better to have this info in some way at least I guess. Thanks again! --Marsupium (talk) 15:31, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, certainly. Thanks for adding it. –LPfi (talk) 15:44, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * This is definitely information that should be included, and I agree that Cope is the best place for it. Are they absolutely not sold in Egypt in 2022, or just very hard to find? This article from 2018 says they "are rare outside of Metro Supermarket". Is it worth mentioning that pads are available (as of 2017), but that Egyptian women consider them to be "shameful" products. This was also interesting story. Ground Zero (talk) 15:49, 27 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Ground Zero, thanks for the links and the dating. I'm not sure, maybe there are some rare places. I don't know about Metro Market. Even if they have them, Metro Market rather consists of a couple of stores in more expensive neighborhoods of bigger cities in the Delta and in Greater Cairo. But that would be already better than nothing. I've weakened the wording of the sentence mentioning it though. --Marsupium (talk) 00:26, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Visa on Arrival
As I read from the travel advice of the Canadian government (https://travel.gc.ca/destinations/egypt), Egypt will not grant visas on arrival to Canadians starting from Sept 3, 2023. From Egyptian newspapers (for instance Egyptian MP requests clarification...) I learned that this applies to US citizens and citizens of other countries, too. Is there anybody who has more detailed information? --RolandUnger (talk) 14:34, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Devaluation of the pound
The Egyptian pound had fallen against the US dollar from 31 in January 2024 to 47 today. I think this means that no prices we have quoted in LE are still valid and should be removed. Ground Zero (talk) 17:11, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * If the only factor is exchange rates, then prices quoted in LE would be fine. If exchange rate changes are causing price level changes (e.g. inflation) then LE quotes would be problematic. Brycehughes (talk) 17:19, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I've been to Egypt recently and can testify that the prices in our articles are very obsolete. For instance, I recall paying LE1800 for entry in Sethi I's tomb, and LE2000 for Nefertari's. Ibaman (talk) 17:36, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Bryce: when a currency is devalued, the prices of imported products rise. The prices of domestic products produced with imported products rises. The prices of petrol will rise, and everything requires petrol to get to market. And what Ibaman wrote. Ground Zero (talk) 17:45, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying the prices in this article are correct. I'm saying that you can't make the leap "this currency fell against the dollar" -> "hotels, etc., denominated in that currency are automatically more expensive". If that's your logic, I'm saying it's far more complex than that. Brycehughes (talk) 17:53, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * If prices rose automatically in proportion to the devaluation, we could adjust them by some fdactor, but they don't, because, as you say, it's complicated. But they do rise for most products and services, but we don't know by how much. With a dramatic devaluation like this, we can be sure that our prices are out of date, as Ibaman reports. It would be best to remove them. Ground Zero (talk) 18:38, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * If a price is old or if someone reports (a la Ibaman) that it is out of date, sure. But if a price is from, say, January 2024 (the start of the time period you mentioned)... well Bloomberg reports an annualized core inflation rate of 35 percent in February, so the actual price change over Feb would be less than 1/12th of that (less than due to compounding) [not sure how they're reporting it], which isn't huge, and so I'd say we could probably not panic and leave recent prices alone. Brycehughes (talk) 18:44, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Do we have any prices from Jan 2024? Or is that a red herring? Ground Zero (talk) 20:01, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * 29 percent annualized, core (so <1/12th of that wieghted-avg price change on monthly basis). Not sure if this is paywalled, but there is a chart of Egyptian inflation from 2018 to present. If we make the assumption that the prices we mention in this article closely track the prices covered by that chart, which appears to be the annualized urban CPI (non-core?) for Egypt, and we say that the margin-of-error we can tolerate for price incorrectness is like 15% (?), then maybe we could say all prices in this article older than 6 months should be obliterated. (Granted, given the state of global price levels over the past couple years this sort of reasoning could apply to many countries not just Egypt... a lot of shaky assumptions in this reasoning however.) Brycehughes (talk) 20:17, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Doesn't the article say the prices rose by 11% in February? The yearly rate doesn't say too much when there are surges like this ("a trend that may continue"). If most of the previous inflation (30% January to January) was in the summer, then 6 month old prices may be just 11% off, but there probably was some inflation also in the autumn, and the March inflation may also be high, so 15% is way too optimistic. Old prices can tell something about the price level, but are misleading if compared to current prices (and yes, we probably had some 8+8% in EU over the last two years, so 15% is quite optimistic overall). –LPfi (talk) 20:46, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * You're right – 11% for February. The article seems to mix year-over-year and annualized... I'm not sure what's going on there, makes it hard to figure out what they're reporting. So, forget that article, if you look at the CPI data and you walk back 6 months, you get about 17% change, so yes you're right a bit more than 15%. Close enough though... maybe we could obliterate anything 5 months old. Brycehughes (talk) 21:09, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't see them mixing anything, other than perhaps in the wording: 30% January to January (annual, not annualized), 36% February to February and 11% January to February this year means that January to February last year was 5% or so. But yes, the inflation terminology is quite confusing ("yearly rate in February" – uh?). But if the trend continues, then we are far from 15%. –LPfi (talk) 21:33, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Typically when you say "annual" in inflation reporting you mean annualized, but apparently in that article they mean year-over-year, and this is a strange way to report it. Regardless, we have the CPI numbers now, so we can forget that article! I don't think we should panic and throw out every price in the article based on February's bad inflation. We can say that prices are probably getting out of date (we don't actually know how well the CPI basket relates to the prices in this article) and that we should throw out older ones. Not sure what we define as "old". Brycehughes (talk) 21:47, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I'd support removing some of the prices based on 's anecdotal experience. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 20:37, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
 * With a 50% devaluation since the beginning of January, something that won't show up in February's inflation figures, we can be sure that any prices added before 2024 are no longer valid. Ground Zero (talk) 00:25, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason this can't wait for official inflation figures? What's the rush? Brycehughes (talk) 01:02, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason why we would keep prices that we know are out of date? How does obsolete information benefit the readers? Ground Zero (talk) 15:20, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

 * Devaluations have occurred several times in recent years. Therefore, price information should always indicate the time at which it was collected. So they can at least serve as guide values (as it was in the past). However, they should not be older than 5 years (as in the current Lonely Planet). However, the sharp devaluation did not lead to strong price increases in March because prices have risen continuously throughout the entire period. In fact, the exchange rate now corresponds to the black market rate.
 * Entrance fees to archaeological sites are set by the Ministry of Tourism and Antiquities. The last increase took place on December 1, 2023, after the current prices were set about a year earlier. I updated all prices in the German Wikivoyage because I had a copy of the ministry decree. Therefore, the relevant prices can be taken from German Wikivoyage. We already started to store the prices with its start time in Wikidata, too. See for example https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q201219 for the Egyptian Museum in Cairo. Then, the listing module only has to fetch these prices as it can be done in German Wikivoyage. --RolandUnger (talk) 15:24, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * See for instance Sights in Cairo. --RolandUnger (talk) 15:27, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * GroundZero you might be right re inflationary pressure, but you also might not be. The Egyption Central bank purposefully initiated this devaluation to bring the official rate in line with the black market rate – this is not a currency crisis. They have also dramatically raised interest rates. We should just wait and see if there is substantial resulting inflation, and until then be relatively conservative in our price culling. The March CPI numbers will be published next month. Brycehughes (talk) 17:07, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

The March CPI numbers are out and it was not a big jump. It might still be worth culling some prices though, especially particularly outdated ones. Brycehughes (talk) 13:12, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Egypt


text:
Talk:Egyptian Arabic phrasebook

Additional edits
Someone copied this phrasebook and created an article for Egyptian Arabic Phrasebook (capital "P"). I've redirected, but there are some additional edits in the article history that may be of use. -- (WT-en) Ryan 14:19, 16 March 2006 (EST)

Mistakes & Standardization

 * Hi! I'm Egyptian. I made further explanations in pronunciation. I think using «Ǣǣ Ææ» & «Āā Aa» is better than using «ǟ». I unified the translation & want to correct the Arabic-script spelling. I correct only consonants. I don't know if it is meant from the original author to add more vowels in the Arabic-script or is it an unintentional mistake?
 * Example:
 * موبايلاك & موبايليك both are written موبايلك & just differ in pronunciation without writing more vowels.

 * Those Arabic-script mistakes aren't familiar to an ordinary Egyptian. In addition to, there is a mix between the usage of (ى /a/ & ي /i/) or (only ى).
 * If it is chosen to write as in hand-writing, we don't put two dots under ى, but if it were meant to be differentiated from the ى /a/, then we should standardize the spelling of all words to the (ي when it's /i/) & (ى when it's /a/)
 * --(WT-en) MKM 23:27, 1 April 2009 (EDT)

 * We should use the normal spellings for all words. The "use case" is that the Wikivoyager shows the Arabic phrase to a native speaker, who can then read it and understand what they want to do. (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:54, 2 April 2009 (EDT)

 * Sorry for being too late to reply. However, I'm going to edit now. --(WT-en) MKM 08:47, 21 April 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Egyptian Arabic phrasebook


text:
Talk:Eigg

Had a marvelous time on this jewel of an island a few years ago. I've added some text to reflect our trip; would someone who's been there more recently please check for accuracy? -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 23:15, 23 Oct 2005 (EDT)

title: Talk:Eigg


text:
Talk:Eighteen day small group tour covering both Islands

What's a better name for this article? Maybe New Zealand Islands in Eighteen Days? -- (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 21:13, 29 August 2006 (EDT)

"Small Group Tour Operators" section
Any objections to the deletion of this section? ~ 203.144.143.4 17:38, 8 January 2008 (EST)

I want to do the 18-day small group tour of New Zealand as described in this article. What tour company offers this?? 173.0.102.149 16:41, 2 July 2012 (EDT)


text:
Talk:Eiheiji

Originally, I included a link to alternative meditation places, Japan_Temple_Stay (soon to be renamed). There seemed to be some problem with it and it has been deleted. Please rethink this.

title: Talk:Eiheiji


text:
Talk:Eiheiji Temple

The temple is an attraction of the village. We write articles about destinations, such as villages, and have temples in the article as an attraction. I am moving the article to Eiheiji for that reason. If the article about Eiheiji gets too dominated by the temple, maybe then it can have its own article - though you go to the village to see the temple - right? So maybe not. -- (WT-en) Huttite 03:25, 15 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * I probably didn't explain well, but the village outside Eiheiji Temple is basically a line of shops and a few hotels serving visitors to the monastery. It is definitely not an attraction, and I think historically it didn't exist. Eiheiji is in a very isolated part of Japan, so any visitors making the effort to get there will do so to see the monastery itself, not the concrete village outside. Anyway, I'll leave it up to you to decide the title for the article. (WT-en) WindHorse 15 Jan 06

 * I was wrong. According to Wikipedia, "as of 2003 Eiheiji town has an estimated population of 6,520". It has been many years since I visited the area, and maybe I passed through in meditational bliss and didn't see the town. Definitely, the sole attraction there is the temple, but the town is bigger than I thought and so could be used as a title. Anyway, as I said earlier, I leave the decision up to you. (WT-en) WindHorse 15 Jan 06

 * The -ji of Eiheiji already means "temple", so for reasons of redundancy alone I'd favor plain ol' Eiheiji. (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:46, 15 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * Yeah, that's true. However, because the ji (寺) has become such an itegeral part of the title, it sounds strange when omitted. I notice the subject 'Eiheiji Temple' has ten times more listing on google than 'Eihei Tample', but still its better to be correct and lead the crowd than incorrect and follow the crowd. So, 'Eiheiji' it is. (WT-en) WindHorse 15 Jan 06

 * Nono, I'm not arguing for Eihei Temple, I'm arguing for "Eiheiji" (cf. a really long and tedious discussion on Wikipedia). (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:45, 15 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * Yes, that is a long and tedious discussion, but I read it and the conclusions make sense. Simple old 'Eiheiji' is fine with me. Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the discussion. (WT-en) WindHorse 15 Jan 06

 * I was suggesting the temple as being the attraction of the place. The fact that a line of shops has appeared on the street outside the temple gates to cater for visitors, and both are then called the same name, is how places get named. What we are documenting is the current situation the traveler will find and how it fits in with our article writing style. As I saw it, this article was about a change in focus, from just the temple, to the whole place. By the sound of it, that was actually a good move but for completely different reasons. -- (WT-en) Huttite 16:20, 15 Jan 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Eiheiji Temple


text:
Talk:Eilat

Alternative banner for this article?
I created a new alternative banner for this article (I initially created it first and foremost so that it would be used at the top of the parallel article in the Hebrew edition of Wikivoyage, yet I later decided to also suggest that the English Wikivoyage community would consider using it here as well). So, which banner do you prefer having at the top of this article? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 05:05, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * This is a very clear choice. The new banner is a much clearer image and also a better composition. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:51, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I agree the new banner is a clearer picture. Replace. Danapit (talk) 12:08, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Proposed Syced (talk) 08:13, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Agree, and done. JuliasTravels (talk) 10:47, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

Mentioning of missing train (last edit)
Is there a point of mentioning the missing train link? I though a main rule is that stuff (supposed to) not being used by the traveler has no sense in being added. I would understand the mentioning in the Israel article, but how does it help here? There is also probably a lot of other things being discussed as well, maybe a water park, but I would not mention this either. 79.177.89.134 22:25, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
 * But there are plans to eventually build said rail link. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:41, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Eilat


text:
Talk:Eindhoven

Hi! I do not really agree with the undo of my change concerning Eindhoven page. The history chapter is boring and just copypasted from wikipedia. Nobody who hascares about the middle-age. There is no trace at all of middle-age in Eindhoven! Or maybe I do not get the spirit of wiki-travel. I will use wiki-couchsurfing instead to set some info. Bigntz

 * Sorry for the confusion. Since it was indeed copied from Wikipedia, making it a licensing violation, I removed all the offending text. In-article links to Wikipedia are not allowed per policy, which is why I removed that. Hope you stick around anyway! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:44, 10 May 2009 (EDT)

save listing here, now closed but might reopen

 * Vlijtig Liesje, Ten Hagestraat 2, ☎ +31 40 237 01 01. Housed in the beautiful Villa Ravensdonck, the last remaining part of the old city castle. It's an all you can eat-place, with lots of small dishes to choose from. €21.50.

deposit for bike rental
"Most common is the OV-fiets available at the train station, however these bikes can only be rented with a personal OV-chipkaart with a valid subscription. Other rentals only require a deposit."

https://en.m.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/4616927

Does anyone have an idea what "Other rentals only require a deposit" means in this context?

That renting is possible without an OV-chipkaart by leaving a deposit? That renting is for free when just leaving a deposit?

I am not aware that anything of that is possible. Maybe it's meant that other bike lenders only want to have a deposit instead of an OV chipkaart. I would delete that sentence otherwise because it doesn't make sense for me.

80.187.74.251 14:39, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

 * Assuming that Eindhoven bike rentals are no different than those elsewhere in the country (and I don't see why they would be), this would mean that other bike rentals only require payment either in cash or by debit card (or occasionally credit card). An OV-Fiets, on the contrary, requires an OV-Chipkaart with the OV-Fiets subscription which I think is €4.50 or so nowadays, even though the card itself isn't a must-have for public transport any more. More concise information about the OV-Fiets system is currently found on Rail travel in the Netherlands. ― Wauteurz (talk) 18:30, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I removed the sentence as you suggested to avoid confusion. As @Wauteurz also mentions it is not possible to rent OV-fiets bikes without OV-chipkaart, even if you pay a deposit. 2A02:A210:A1C1:500:BAFF:80D4:B280:EE41 11:29, 10 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Eindhoven


text:
Talk:El Centro

Hi, 71.136.52.98. You've done a lot of work on the El Centro article. I'm from there. I did revert the one change about "defensive driving" but otherwise it looks good. You should consider registering a username and maybe editing some other Imperial Valley articles (Mexicali and Calexico need a lot of help!)--(WT-en) justfred 21:22, 28 November 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:El Centro


text:
Talk:El Cerrito

What else is there to do in El Cerrito? I live here and I don't know -- (WT-en) zcopley 16:56, 27 February 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:El Cerrito


text:
Talk:Electrical systems

Three-phase systems
I'm not sure how much info we actually need about these. "These are industrial and often carry higher voltage (and higher maximum current) so leave them alone unless you know what you're dealing with." Maybe leave it at that. If some American wants to sneak 480V devices into Canada and watch them burn out when connected to the 600V mains, that's a question for an industrial electrician... not a travel guide. K7L (talk) 23:43, 2 November 2012 (CET)
 * Spot on! -- (WV-en) A l i c e ✉ 06:37, 3 November 2012 (CET)

I do see some problems with the latest edit:
 * "an outlet for a clothes dryer in North America may be 240 volts, similar to that of Europe for ordinary small appliances. However, differences in the neutral wire and number of phases render it incompatible, as well as extremely dangerous"

Really? A 240V North American clothes dryer is single phase. The only difference (other than line frequency) is that the transformer supplying that 240V has a neutral centre tap.
 * "Even if the initial hook up works, the circuit breaker may not close when it should, and cause a fire."

If the circuit breaker does not close, the whole thing remains turned off. Nothing happens. How is this dangerous or about to catch fire? K7L (talk) 17:07, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Pretty sure what was meant was "the circuit breaker may not open when it should". But otherwise, I think we shouldn't be encouraging people to experiment with relatively high-voltage electrical wiring. If you know enough to get it right, then you have nothing to learn from this article anyway. --Bigpeteb (talk) 14:29, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

 * The North American clothes dryer outlet isn't any higher voltage than the typical every-day familiar outlets in most of the world. Actually, it can be argued the North American clothes dryer outlet is LOWER voltage, because relative to earth/ground, it's only 120V.  (ie. If you get electrocuted from a North American clothes dryer, it's only 120V that you'd feel.)--24.57.130.156 05:43, 21 February 2015 (UTC)Justin

Wikibooks
A Wikibooks guide to this topic has been imported to Wikivoyage and since deleted there. The original page is preserved at Talk:Electrical systems/Wikibooks and the contribution history can be found here. Please copy any useful information across (with appropriate attribution) to this article. --Nick talk 21:56, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

electric vehicles & photovoltaics etc
There should be sections added for electric vehicles, photovoltaics and perhaps other means of generating electricity such as thermoelectric cookstoves, kettles with USB plugs and portable fuel cells. LeeColleton (talk) 08:01, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

 * Good. Start writing such sections when you have the time. Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:24, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

 * P.S. Welcome to Wikivoyage! I see that was your first post. This site is totally reliant on unpaid volunteer editing, so everyone is urged to plunge forward and add content that they notice is missing. So that's why I reacted as if you had volunteered to add the sections you described above. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:29, 29 November 2014 (UTC)

Photos?
How did that article end up on the main page without even photos of the particular socket/plug types? PrinceGloria (talk) 05:42, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes we really need pictures of each type of plug, maybe as a gallery? Nicolas1981 (talk) 08:48, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅ ϒpsilon (talk) 09:59, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

 * That definitely improves the article, but I find the British plug too small to see without clicking on the photo. Is there room on the page to enlarge it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:08, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

A whole slew of corrections!
Corrections to some misinformation:

'''Re. converters vs. transformers, frequency, and waveshape of generators and inverters:'''

Just because a device is "electronic", does not mean a transformer or high-quality generator must be used for voltage conversion! Many electronic devices have switch-mode power supplies (SMPS), which work just fine on voltage downconverters, low-quality generators, and even inverters that produce square-wave and sawtooth-wave electricity. (Some electronic devices can even work from DC applied to their AC inputs!) That's because many SMPS designs used in electronic devices internally rectify the AC power to DC already, before any further processing is done! Hence the waveshape does not matter, AND NEITHER DOES FREQUENCY, so it's fine to connect such devices to almost any AC power source, from archaic 25 Hz to aircraft 400 Hz and everything in-between (and even beyond), as long as the voltage is within specification.

Furthermore, the claim in the article about clocks regulated by AC frequency needing a sine wave is untrue for many clocks. Digital electronic clocks (that are regulated by AC frequency) can use any waveshape; the timing circuitry merely counts when the electricity flips polarity -- it doesn't care what the "shape" of it is as it oscillates between the two polarities. (There are some waveshape issues for the linear power supplies used in typical electronic alarm clock radios -- see paragraph below.) For MECHANICAL clocks powered by an AC motor, yes, a sine wave is ideal... and may even be necessary for SOME such motors... but many synchronous AC motors in these clocks will still run (noisily) on a square wave. For electronic clocks and mechanical clocks with somewhat-forgiving motors, a voltage downconverter is fine, provided it has no DC bias and can handle inductive loads. (See next paragraph.)

Electric devices with AC motors, and electronic devices with linear power supplies, may not work on SOME voltage downconverters, but may still work on others. They key thing to understand is whether the downconverter has a DC bias or not, and if it can handle the back-EMF of the device's internal transformer or motor. Downconverters that have a DC bias (as is the case with simple "half-wave rectifying" converters that cut off half of each power cycle) can NOT be used. But downcoverters that use a "wave chopping" technique similar to lamp dimmers, "balanced" so there's no DC bias, and have snubbers to handle the back-EMF of inductive loads (similar to how variable speed motor controllers are designed), can actually be used to power some electronic devices with linear power supplies (internal transformers) and some AC motors!

'''Re. fluorescent lights and frequency:'''

Unlike the article's claim that fluorescent lights require their specific design frequency, many types of fluorescent lights (eg. those with electronic ballasts) can actually work on a wide range of frequencies. This includes just about every "compact fluorescent light" (CFL) where the inverter/ballast is an integral part of the entire lamp. (See the previous section on electronic devices using an SMPS.) Note that many portable flashlights/torches with a small (~ 15 cm long) fluorescent tube run on DC batteries, which again proves that not all fluorescent lighting is frequency-dependent!

Simple Pre-Heat fluorescent lights that use "glow-starters" (and which only have a single choke that's frequency-dependent) can still work at a slightly-lower-than-design frequency. Such a lamp designed for 60 Hz may still work at 50 Hz, albeit with lower brightness, and possibly a few more flickers on start-up until the lamp's mercury vapour is sufficiently ionized. Cheap 60 Hz desk lamps that require the user to hold an "ON" button for an extended period of time and then release it for the lamp to come on, are the easiest Pre-Heat fluorescent lights to force 50 Hz power! Just hold the button longer.

The only concern is when putting Pre-Heat choked and "magnetically-ballasted" fluorescent lamps designed for 50 Hz on a 60 Hz supply; this will allow too much current to flow through the tube, and could decrease the tube's lifetime or burn the lamp's switch contacts a little.

Rapid Start and Instant Start fluorescent lights with "magnetic ballasts" may not be very frequency-tolerant, but since these are rarely ever found in portable lights, most travellers need not worry about this.

'''Re. quality of generators:'''

Just because a generator may run on petrol/gasoline, doesn't necessarily mean it's bad! The type of fuel is completely irrelevant to the quality of electricity it produces! Heck, it could even be a steam engine, and still produce perfectly fine electricity! (In fact, industrial power plants like nuclear, coal, gas, oil, geothermal, concentrated-solar, etc. use steam to spin the generators!) So it's perfectly feasible and within reason for a petrol/gasoline engine to spin a mighty fine quality generator at a well-regulated speed, without issues.

There is nothing wrong with petrol/gasoline.

As for speed, that's irrelevant too. The "proper" speed for the generator depends only on the frequency of electricity it is supposed to produce, and how many magnetic poles (always a multiple of 2) are used in its design. The formula is:

{speed_RPM} = {frequency_HZ} * 120 / {poles}

A 1500 RPM generator has 4 poles and produces 50 Hz power. A 1800 RPM generator has 4 poles and produces 60 Hz power. A 3000 RPM generator has 2 poles and produces 50 Hz power. A 3600 RPM generator has 2 poles and produces 60 Hz power.

There is nothing wrong with 2 pole designs. In fact, some of the world's largest electric power plants use 2-pole generators!

And the article's claim that "If the engine speed is 3,000RPM or more, it is not a good machine." is complete bunk! For example, airplane jet engines typically spin at 12,000 RPM. (That produces 400 Hz, using a 4-pole generator set) Does that mean every jet engine's generator set is "not good" and inappropriate for powering the aircraft's "sensitive" and "expensive" avionics!?? And some large state-of-the-art power plants that produce 50 Hz and 60 Hz electricity employ large hydrogen-cooled turbine generators that spin at precisely 3000 and 3600 RPM, respectively! It's a rather bold statement to say the world's most advanced power plants are "not good", just because you don't like their rotational speed! (Keep in mind these were designed by some of the most intelligent mechanical and electrical engineers in the industry, specializing in fluid dynamics and electric power generation!)

What REALLY matters in selecting a generator is: * How "clean" is the output waveshape, which is largely dependent on how "cleanly" the field excitation current is regulated. * How stable is the output frequency, which depends on how well the engine speed is controlled. Issues like all-mechancal governors vs. electronic governors should be considered, as well as the specific moment of intertia of the generator set's flywheel. * How stable is the output voltage, which depends on how well the rotor is magnetically coupled to the stator, how efficient are the coils and cores, how responsive is the field excitation regulator, and of course how stable is the speed.

Vacuum cleaners and frequency:

The "rule of thumb" that vacuum cleaners can not be used at other frequencies is not a "universal law of physics". Powerful INDUCTION MOTORS are frequency-sensitive, yes. But UNIVERSAL MOTORS (ie. those with commutators and field coils) are quite frequency-tolerant, even for large powerful motors! Now, trying to use a 50 Hz vacuum cleaner on an airplane at 400 Hz might be a bad idea, but the difference between 50 Hz and 60 Hz is usually not significant enough to damage a universal motor in most applications... including power tools and vacuum cleaners.

24.57.130.156 05:32, 21 February 2015 (UTC)Justin

 * Most of the above sounds right to me, and the rest I cannot tell. I am much more a digital than an analog guy, though, so I will not attempt corrections, Do we have a volunteer? Perhaps the person posting above? Pashley (talk) 09:24, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

 * I think some of the stuff above, although correct, may be misleading. E.g. the discussion about petrol and diesel generators: yes, the cleanness of the waveform is what matters, but petrol driven generators or generators with high speed may tend to be lower quality (as it is possible to make these cheaply and there seldom is reason to choose this design for high quality generators). Few travellers have equipment to study the waveform, so this kind of hints are valuable. So, the question is not about whether high speed petrol generators are possible, but whether they are common enough to be relevant.

 * For the rest of the discussion, I suppose .156 is right, but the advice should be meaningful for the technologically uninitiated. Few people know what kind of motor or power supply is used in their hair dryer or laptop, and they should know when they risk frying the device, when testing at home is enough and what specific markings mean they are OK.

 * The text should be factually correct, so wordings about "tend to" etc. should probably be used in some more places – and for many situations more specific advice should probably be given (if the internals of the devices can be deduced).

 * --LPfi (talk) 13:29, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

 * I have to express a bit of reluctance (increasing in direct proportion to frequency) about this: "The only concern is when putting Pre-Heat choked and 'magnetically-ballasted' fluorescent lamps designed for 50 Hz on a 60 Hz supply; this will allow too much current to flow through the tube". I'd expect an inductor would allow more current (not less) to flow at the lower frequency, possibly being more prone to magnetic saturation. At DC, an inductor looks just like a plain old wire.
 * I wouldn't count on a vacuum cleaner to use a universal motor instead of an induction motor; usually the universal is a small motor, like the ones in portable power tools or variable-speed appliances. A large motor, like the one on a table saw, will more often be induction. If we do assume an induction motor, it may be necessary to state that assumption.
 * The main concern with line-powered clocks (and synchronous motors) is frequency; any device which counts AC cycles as a timebase will end up on the wrong time.
 * SMPS are a bit unpredictable as there are many designs; most just rectify the incoming line before doing anything else, but a few may attempt power factor correction - which complicates things. Many are rated point-blank "120/240V 50/60Hz" so that makes life easier; I'm glad to know that my ATSC TV will have no problem with the local line voltage anywhere on Earth. (The programme, on the other hand...)?
 * Petrol is usually avoided for large generators as it's difficult to buy this fuel without incurring road taxes; "coloured diesel" is available for generators without incurring the highway tax. There are also differences in motor design between diesel, two-stroke petrol (like a lawnmower engine, with oil in the fuel) and four-stroke petrol (like a motorcar). Electrically, it makes no difference; it just affects the motor and fuel. For small applications (such as portable generators at campsites) using gasoline might not be a major issue, but backup generators to power buildings will usually be diesel. K7L (talk) 21:10, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

Three phase systems
I just read that electricity in USA is not delivered as three-phase to normal households. That explains why people have insisted on it being available only in commercial settings, removing my tries to word it otherwise.

To make it clear: over here electricity is delivered as three-phase, but just one phase is used at the outlet (often also the cable from the distribution board carries just one phase). As three-phase electricity is available, also three-phase outlets tend to be available at modern houses, as they may be needed occasionally (cottages, old houses in the countryside and apartments may have only one phase delivered).

Perhaps a word or two should be said about delivering systems, as those knowing the system at home may believe they understand enough also abroad. In addition to the three-phase thing, I read parts of Belgium uses two-phase outlets instead of phase+neutral, which may lead to nasty surprises for some.

--LPfi (talk) 19:25, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

 * If Belgium is 230V AC line-to-neutral, that would mean that 400 volts is being delivered to three-phase outlets. Residentially? That's tempting fate. K7L (talk) 04:58, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

 * Three phase electricity is in general used for things that are stationary and require a lot of power like stoves or electric sauna stoves, you most certainly won't find them in every corner of your house. Also, three phase outlets are of a completely different size and shape than regular 230 V outlets. ϒpsilon (talk) 06:16, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

 * Yes (but this is Finland, not Belgium). The 400 V outlets are not found in normal rooms, but at the distribution board (possibly behind a lock), for some stoves (with the outlet not easily accessed) and perhaps in domestic workshops (also not easily accessed by children). I think the temptation to tamper with 400 V outlets or things you connect to them is rather marginal.

 * The thing about (parts of) Belgium is that the 230 V is delivered phase to phase (as in 230 V outlets across the pond but with 120° phases), not phase to neutral. Anything attached to the outlet gets the same 230 V as elsewhere in Europe, but somebody from here tampering with electrical equipment will suppose one of the pins is neutral, which may not be true.

 * --LPfi (talk) 08:50, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

SEO edits
While this article is a bit longer (8100 words versus 6437 words) and probably contains more information than the stuff on that other side it still gets slapped with a "duplicate penalty" due to 53% or 4254 words matching. Do have a look at Copyscape and try to bring that number down somewhat. While this article might not outdate as fast as some others, I am sure there are turns of phrase that could probably be improved upon. Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:22, 23 November 2016 (UTC)

Duplication
I recently added a section at Electrical_systems then noticed that much of it was already covered at Electrical_systems. (facepalm!) Is there a volunteer to merge those? Pashley (talk) 15:37, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Does frequency matter?
Using the wrong voltage can certainly cause big problems, but what about the 50/60Hz distinction? I would imagine most devices do not care so the user need not worry about it & the article should say so, which it currently does not. However, I'm no expert on things electrical & do not want to add this without checking here first.

Are there devices where it does matter? Do some use the input frequency for timing? Does the output of a transformer depend on input frequency? Are there other issues? Pashley (talk) 16:53, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Frequency matters, but only for a small minority of devices. The classic example would be a cheap line-powered alarm clock which uses the input frequency for timing, instead of being crystal-controlled. An entirely-mechanical clock might use a synchronous motor whose speed directly follows line frequency. An old-style fluorescent lamp ballast might simply be a large inductor (coil) in series with the incoming line; the lower the frequency, the more current passes through the coil to the lamp, which could have been problematic. A transformer may need to have a slightly bulkier metal core at a lower frequency (and wouldn't work at all on continuous DC) because of the need to avoid magnetic saturation; a transformer that works at 50Hz should work at 60Hz.
 * A purely-resistive device (like a heater or an incandescent bulb) won't care at all. Most electronic devices convert the line from AC to DC immediately (or as soon as the voltage has been stepped down); the frequency doesn't much matter in this case. Many computers are built for worldwide export, in such a way that only cords, plugs or adapters needs to change. The actual electronics are DC internally. Even fluorescent lamps are increasingly being built with electronic ballasts, or are simply being replaced with LEDs or other light sources. Frequency matters less than it used to. Motors running more slowly on 50Hz than on 60 cycles would be the most common symptom of a change in line frequency. K7L (talk) 20:15, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

Blackouts
Imho it should be mentioned that blackouts vary vastly in frequency even between rich nations. In Germany for instance the average end consumer has less than 15 minutes of blackout per year... Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:52, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, and also inside countries between urban and rural areas. ϒpsilon (talk) 20:22, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

Euro plug and Schuko
There is a cautionbox saying that the Europlug won't make a tight enough connection into a Schuko outlet. I have never had that problem, and I suppose everyone is routinely using them that way here in Finland. Where would you otherwise plug your europlugs? There are no separate outlets for them. Is this different for other European countries? --LPfi (talk) 05:58, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

 * Possibly. In practice there are some (small) differences between sockets in European countries, both when it comes to the distance between the holes and their sizes (especially apparently older installations). Nevertheless, plugs virtually always fit, sometimes a little loosely and sometimes one has to use a little force. --ϒpsilon (talk) 15:25, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

The Bible quote isn't even remotely about electricity
So why are we so insistent on having it there? Some oversensitive backlash against supposed (or maybe real) "political correctness"? Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:58, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 * There was considerable discussion at Travellers' pub. I thought we had a consensus that it should go.
 * Certainly I think the George Carlin quote is both more relevant & more amusing, obviously a better choice. Pashley (talk) 01:28, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Actually, "organised lightning" really isn't a better-quality quote. The only reason it was inserted was to avoid mentioning any religion. K7L (talk) 01:35, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 * On the face of it and disregarding the religion issue vis-à-vis the hypersensitive user who finds the Book of Genesis offensive, consensus never held the Carlin quote to be more than marginally preferable to the Biblical quote. However, once it became clear what said hypersensitive user's real endgame was, consensus rapidly turned toward the idea that taking a strong stand and discouraging any further attempts to bowdlerize the site was a more important consideration than the question of which quote was preferable. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 03:42, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 * ...or in other words, quoting myself from the pub, "our Electrical systems article will not be substantially worse off in the long run if we have 'Let there be light' as the quote rather than the Carlin one, but Wikivoyage as a whole will be substantially worse off in the long run if we allow a culture to develop where editors have to walk on eggshells to avoid inadvertently hurting the feelings of every imaginable class of perpetually offended user." -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 12:38, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Are we still discussing this? I thought there was consensus in the pub to replace the "let there be light" quote in this article but not systematically remove religious quotes from other articles. I don't think I participated in that discussion, but I think the "let there be light" quote is clearly irrelevant to this article, and I'm disappointed to see that it's been re-added. —Granger (talk · contribs) 12:47, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Coverage of the issue was spread out between two threads at the Pub (pub and pub), as well as at Talk:Clothes. If you take those three discussions as a whole, you can see that consensus changed rapidly once the user made a similar edit to the Clothes article. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 12:48, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 * I disagree with that assessment—I think consensus developed that we shouldn't systematically remove religious quotes from articles, but I don't think the consensus for removing the irrelevant quote from this article ever changed. —Granger (talk · contribs) 13:05, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 * I agree. As I see it, Andre's restoration of the biblical quote is unacceptable edit warring & violates a clear consensus. Pashley (talk) 14:01, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 * There's nothing clear about the consensus, and if reverting vandalism or trolling is now considered equivalent to edit warring with said vandal or troll, then mark me as a proud "edit warrior" as every admin worth his salt should be. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 14:16, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

I think both the quote about organized lightning and the Biblical quote are fine, but I think that now we've switched to the organized lightning quote, there is no need to switch back again. Selfie City (talk) 14:40, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Never mind. I just looked at the Understand section. Selfie City (talk) 14:41, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 * The author(s) of genesis didn't even have an idea of the existence of electricity. Carlin is clearly talking about electricity. How fitting would a quote from some ancient Greek bloke be in Musicals? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:41, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 * I think the best thing to do is to leave this alone for now. After a year somebody can replace the quote with something better (or suggest such a change) without any problems of principle, be it some of the suggested ones or something else. Anything we do now, on the other hand, is done in the context of the controversy. --LPfi (talk) 16:34, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 * So return to what was there before the edits which caused this entire recent controversy? That would be consistent with our status quo bias. K7L (talk) 22:56, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

 * I would restore the Carlin quote. God creating light is not about electricity. It's an irrelevant quote. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:17, 9 June 2018 (UTC)

 * I vote to restore the Carlin quote too. The quote from the Bible is about light and not about electricity. Those are two different things. In the case of the Clothes article, the Biblical quote was replaced with one that was not as good, and that was why I voted to keep the Biblical quote. In this case, the Carlin quote is clearly much more relevant than the Biblical quote. While we should absolutely not replace quotes from the Bible (or any other religious text, for that matter) simply on the account of some oversensitive person being offended, let's also be careful not to take it too far in the other direction. If there is another quote, but it secular or religious that is better than the current one, then the current one should be replaced, again regardless of whether it's secular or religious. The dog2 (talk) 20:02, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

 * I disagree, as the generation of light was one of the first profitable applications of electricity and the Carlin quote is not as good. Hopefully we don't end up like Uncyclopedia - with multiple, unfunny, fabricated quotes at the start of every page to add nothing of value - but "let there be light" seems harmless (except to vampires). K7L (talk) 20:11, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

 * But the creation of light, come on, that has nothing to do with electricity. Light comes from stars, fire, moons, planets, comets... Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:16, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

Exactly. For cavemen, light came from the sun and from fires. So the creation of light had nothing to do with electricity. The only electricity they would have encountered was lightning, but they would not have been able to harness it back then. The dog2 (talk) 21:52, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

 * It looks to me like we have pretty much of a consensus to go back to the Carlin quote for this article. AndreCarrotflower, now that the argument to go back to that quote isn't from people who want to scrub the entire site of Bible quotes, would you be willing to concede this point? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:08, 11 June 2018 (UTC)

 * The Carlin quote is decent, and can replace the Genesis quote. /Yvwv (talk) 02:41, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

 * So if there are no objections within 24 hours of this posting, I'll go ahead and restore the Carlin quote. The dog2 (talk) 17:57, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Perhaps we should have no quote at all. Adding this just for the sake of doing so doesn't improve the article. K7L (talk) 23:24, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Depends on what you mean by "improve". It's funny, so it may improve the reader's experience of reading the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:34, 19 June 2018 (UTC)
 * So what's the verdict then? The dog2 (talk) 00:41, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Well, I think its pretty certain that Clothes will include a biblical quote; I would say we ought to restart this and ask people whether they want the Carlin quote, the Biblical quote, or no quote at all, and see where consensus goes. Because nothing's definite right now. Selfie City (talk) 00:45, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * It seems to me this discussion demonstrates that there continues to be consensus for using the Carlin quote instead of the Genesis quote in this article. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:58, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Seems like a consensus to me, too. Clothes is not relevant to this discussion: the Biblical quote there is obviously topical. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:24, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
 * But the idea of having no quote came up at the end of the discussion, but that has proven to not have any influence on where consensus is going. Selfie City (talk) 15:01, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Grounded devices
It seems grounded outlets aren't easily available everywhere, see e.g. Brazil. Do we have any advice for that? We now just say that you shouldn't use such outlets for devices with a ground pin, which isn't really helpful, and I think an adapter for this use is safer than makeshift solutions such as that suggested for Brazil.

Most devices you bring may not need grounding, and you might be able to choose devices that don't, but e.g. this laptop's charger is grounded. Can you get around that?

–LPfi (talk) 21:22, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

CB radio
Can someone please add an article to Wikivoyage covering the travel topic of "CB radio", "radio communication", or "rural telecommunication"? I am trying to find out if I might need a two-way radio (e.g. CB radio) for an upcoming roadtrip across the USA. This is primarily to be able to call for help in case of an emergency in a rural area without cellular telephone service but could also be useful to get information from other travelers about traffic and road conditions. However, there is a lot of mixed information online about CB radio. Assuming that anyone is within listening range (which is quite limited for citizens' band) I have read reports online that CB radios are no longer commonly used in the USA and specifically that emergency personnel in the USA often do not monitor the CB radio emergency channel any more in which case an emergency signal should actually be broadcast on Channel 19 (the most commonly used channel) instead of Channel 9 (the emergency-only channel). If any Wikivoyagers have experience with CB radios in rural areas, that will be a very helpful article to add to Wikivoyage. The alternatives to a CB radio might be a portable ham radio (which requires an FCC license in the USA) or a satellite emergency texting service (available from Motorola and Garmin). Nicole Sharp (talk) 16:24, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * We try to cover a bit of the theme in Electrical systems and Mobile phones. I assume you are right in that the CB range is too short to be much help in an emergency – cars on the same road are more reliably alarmed by visual means. However, I am European and have no experience of CB radios. On marine VHF it is common practice to monitor more than one channel (usually two), a separate emergency channel nobody listens to sounds odd. One more option would be an EPIRB (or rather its on-shore equivalents), I think those are discussed in some itinerary, shortly mentioned in Cruising on small craft, but not discussed in any general article.
 * I agree that a more thorough discussion would be good to have, preferably about all different consumer two-way radios (perhaps including ham options). However, I don't know enough to write it.
 * –LPfi (talk) 17:36, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Visual communication is an idea that I had not thought of. Trying to send smoke signals is likely dangerous and illegal (road flares are also not safe to keep inside a car) but at night a green laser pointer could be used (though this may still be illegal in some locations and is hazardous to aircraft).  I would suggest putting all of this instead under a comprehensive article for " emergency communication " to specifically cover different methods on how to get help when stranded in rural areas (whether on land or water).  Nicole Sharp (talk) 17:49, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Emergency communication is also likely to be different than normal (non-emergency) communication which is a good reason for having it covered in a separate article. For example, CB radios can be illegally modified to increase their range, but I do not know if the USA FCC allows exceptions for emergency use.  The Motorola satellite texting service allows free text messages by satellite for emergency use only whereas Garmin requires a paid subscription even for emergency use only.  This is from a small/affordable satellite transponder that attaches to any smartphone.  That is likely a better alternative to Terrestrial radio but the CB radio could also be useful in non-emergency situations for general traffic updates from other drivers using CB radios.  Nicole Sharp (talk) 17:56, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Nicole Sharp, assuming your question is related to the upcoming eclipse, I don't think you need to worry about this. You're not going to be in the middle of nowhere.  Cell phone coverage should be good for all of your trip if you stay on the interstates and major highways (and route around the National Radio Quiet Zone on the western point of Maryland), and for nearly all of your trip even if you don't.  See https://www.whistleout.com/CellPhones/Guides/us-cellular-coverage-map for a map.  Any given spot might have poor signal, but most of the large cell phone dead areas are north or further west of New Mexico.
 * If you think it would be fun to use a CB, then you can get one. Over-the-road truck drivers, especially those who've been doing it for years, still use CBs.  They're useful if you want to ask someone nearby what's causing the unexpected traffic jam, or if you want to warn others about a traffic hazard.  However, I don't think I've seen one in a personal vehicle since the 1980s, and they are more useful if you are on major trucking routes than if you are in the middle of nowhere.  The range for a portable set (i.e., no permanently installed antennas) can be up to about three miles.  A satellite phone would be more effective ...but if you're just driving there and back, I think that would be overkill. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:21, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * An emergency communication device would be for both everyday local use as well as for travel use. Large areas of Western Maryland (where I live) and West Virginia (near where I live) do not have cellular telephone service, as well as large areas of New Mexico.  For local travel, I try to avoid those areas specifically because I am afraid of being injured or having my vehicle break down and not being able to call for help.  The map that you linked to is not accurate since I know for a fact where local dead zones are (e.g. New Germany State Park), at least for AT&T.  Even on the official AT&T map not all of the dead zones are marked, unless they've recently added coverage since the last time I "voyaged" there.  I am worried that coverage in rural southeastern New Mexico (the parts of the state where UFO crashes are alleged) might be similar to coverage in rural western Maryland.  A lot of the cellular telephone dead zones also appear to specifically be around USA National Forests, where backcountry camping is free.  Most major roads and highways are going to have cellular telephone coverage so my main concern about CB radios is that they are not going to be useful in an emergency if no one is listening to CB radios in rural areas not near major trucking routes.  I read that small towns used to have CB "base stations" (with a much larger reception range than a portable CB radio) that were monitored 24/7 for emergency broadcasts but I don't think these exist any more?  Nicole Sharp (talk) 21:53, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Generally, in a small town, "outdated" equipment will be kept for as long as it works, and then discarded. Consequently, I don't think you could predict where it would/wouldn't work, especially since terrain matters so much.  Any place, even in the middle of a city with excellent cell phone coverage, can have "that one spot" with poor coverage, and the same is true for any type of radio-based communication.  You could be within walking distance of a town with a CB station and still not have CB coverage for the particular spot you happen to be in. WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:05, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The chances of ending up being stuck in a spot in the middle of nowhere without cellphone coverage but with somebody monitoring a CB somehow seem lower than those of getting stuck in a place that has neither. If you're traveling to the middle of nowhere, some form of satellite communication seems like the logical choice. As far as I can tell, there are three options:
 * Personal Locator Beacon (PLB) - push a button and wait for SAR to show up. This utilizes global infrastructure that is used for aviation and nautical purposes. They communicate via Sarsat, which is directly monitored by SAR. No subscription, but also no messaging. But you can have it registered so SAR can contact somebody who knows about your travel plans. Typically also transmit a signal on 121.5 MHz for SAR to use as a beacon to home in on.
 * Satellite messengers like the already mentioned Motorolas and Garmin inReach, etc. - adds text messaging via proprietary services that usually require some form of monthly subscription. They use different satellite networks (Garmin and Zoleo for example use Iridium), and there is some kind of company or organization responsible for relaying your distress signal to SAR.
 * Satellite phone - best for actual communication but super expensive, afaik.
 * El Grafo (talk) 10:56, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
 * These can be rented, but you're probably looking at $50 a week for the most basic options, going up to $100 or more. A standard check-in plan with a buddy ("It's Monday morning, I'm here, I'm going there.  I plan to check in with you when I get there, probably in about three hours"), on the other hand, costs whatever you pay for a few texts per day. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:23, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
 * I thought of the same thing. Assuming that I am returning to the same hotel I left from, I can leave a note that if I am not back by such-and-such time then an emergency has happened and they should contact the police to start a search party.  I figure with enough water and food in the car, I can be stranded for at least a few days before the situation becomes a real emergency.  Nicole Sharp (talk) 02:07, 24 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Letting somebody know about your intentions is always a good idea regardless of what communication devices you carry. And thb, for a road trip it's probably all you need as "insurance". El Grafo (talk) 09:09, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

I talked to AT&T and they admitted that their map may contain errors. What the map provides is areas that should have coverage but there can still be localized dead spots that aren't always marked on the map. AT&T also said that 911 calls can still sometimes work even in areas with no service from AT&T since the 911 calls have the highest priority and can sometimes piggyback off a third-party cell tower that won't otherwise show as a cell phone signal for an AT&T phone. Localized dead spots are maybe where a cell phone booster could be most useful, since it is technically in a coverage area but the signal is otherwise obstructed or too weak. Using the official AT&T map, there isn't really anywhere completely without service between Maryland and New Mexico other than the USA National Radio Quiet Zone in West Virginia and the area around Carlsbad Caverns National Park. For the very rural areas such as USA National Forests a CB radio is only going to be of use to get help in an emergency if the USA Forestry Service is using CB radios. Otherwise satellite or ham radio are likely the only practical alternatives. A CB radio still sounds like "fun" though and could be useful for traffic reports. Nicole Sharp (talk) 16:55, 27 September 2023 (UTC) According to the Cobra user manual, "a CB radio can... get local information to find a destination [and] suggest spots to eat and sleep". I didn't even think of that. I was thinking of CB radios for emergencies and traffic updates but they might be even more useful to be able to get recommendations from locals and other travelers on places to sleep, eat, or sightsee. Nicole Sharp (talk) I would recommend prioritizing information about cellular telephone coverage available from locals than any information about cellular telephone coverage from a map provided by the phone company. For example, Mammoth Cave USA National Park is listed by the National Park Service as having no cellular telephone coverage at the campgrounds, despite being in the coverage area for the official AT&T map. Nicole Sharp (talk) 15:40, 30 September 2023 (UTC) Regarding CB radios, how do you deal with leaving the window cracked open for a magnetic CB radio antenna mount? Won't that break the vehicle cabin air conditioning in summer, be freezing cold in winter, let rain onto the seats, and provide easy access for thieves? Nicole Sharp (talk) 15:40, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

"Bad physics"
About this recent edit, P=U2/R gives the fact that doubling the voltage will quadruple the power. Ypsilon (talk) 19:14, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

 * Yes, double the voltage & you get twice the current for the same resistance. Power is voltage times current so four times the power.
 * I reverted the edit. Pashley (talk) 01:33, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Electrical systems


text:
Talk:Electronics and entertainment shopping in Thailand

Relevance?
I disagree that Thailand is such a good destination for electronics shopping:

 * Generally prices are equal or even higher than in Western countries, as many products are imported from the US, Europe or Japan (including digital cameras)
 * Many popular consumer products do not even have a Thai release, such as game consoles
 * Southeast Asia has a separate DVD region, making it impossible to play Thai DVDs in Japan and the West.
 * VCDs generally only have Thai releases without English subtitles; even Hollywood movies are dubbed and thus useless
 * Legal software releases are cheaper in Thailand, but often don't work in Western computers because of regional restrictions; also many of them are in Thai script, making them virtually useless.

Concluding, I don't think the introduction phrase "Thailand is a good place to buy fairly cheap (although not high quality) electronics, music, video and software" is true. And I also think that maybe that undermines the whole relevance of this article. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 08:21, 30 September 2010 (EDT)

 * I, too, was wondering what the point of this article was. In fact, at first, I thought it would be a spam marketing article for deletion. Couldn't any useful info in this article simply be merged into the Thailand article? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 00:55, 29 August 2011 (EDT)

 * Me three. I would not consider Thailand to be a good place for this. The market is flooded with counterfeits and it's sometimes hard to tell what you are getting. The article itself admits that the goods are not high quality. I don't think we need an article that tries to get people excited about buying low-quality or dubious goods. (WT-en) texugo 01:17, 29 August 2011 (EDT)

 * I'll try to move some worthwhile info to Thailand, though it's not a lot. When I'm done, I suppose it should be redirected to Thailand? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 01:30, 29 August 2011 (EDT)

 * Too long to be a likely search term. I'd say just delete it when you're done. (WT-en) texugo 01:34, 29 August 2011 (EDT)

 * Seconded. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 01:38, 29 August 2011 (EDT)

 * I'd suggest redirecting. This is a very old article that comes up very high in any Google search about electronics in Thailand, so it's a potential entry point for new users to the site. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 01:47, 29 August 2011 (EDT)

 * (edit conflict?) The previous VFD for this article is here. If the current consensus is that the info in this article is of limited value then I'd support pruning and redirecting. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 01:42, 29 August 2011 (EDT)

 * Would it be advisable to put this through the VFD process again? I'd nominate it for merge/delete with Thailand, but I'm not sure whether there needs to be some special procedure when an article has previously been voted on for deletion and survived. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 01:51, 29 August 2011 (EDT)

 * Maybe good protocol would be to stick it up at VFD again? In theory though, I don't think a redirect requires a consensus. For the record, it seems to me like an obvious merge and redirect candidate.--(WT-en) burmesedays 01:56, 29 August 2011 (EDT)

 * If there is a proposal to delete this article then it should be nominated for VFD, but a merge/redirect would just require some consensus on this talk page. I'd be opposed to a delete, for what it's worth - current policy is that redirects are preferred to deletion except for special exceptions. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 02:19, 29 August 2011 (EDT)

 * I'm not opposed to a redirect, because that means this article will be effectively deleted after merging, anyway. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 03:00, 29 August 2011 (EDT)


text:
Talk:Elephanta Caves

vfd discussion

 * Delete. I think that this is an attraction, not a destination, and the text is a copy from http://www.mtdcindia.com/Elephanta/index.htm. I've redirected since the UNESCO World Heritage site article links here. -- (WT-en) Ryan 03:09, 5 April 2006 (EDT)
 * Redirect. Well, it is, but i do not see that page under any copyright, I thought it would help people by putting all information under one roof. -- (WT-en) Mjavad 05:11, 5 April 2006 (EDT)
 * Comment: Unless the page explicitly says that it's in the public domain or is published by a government that releases everything it creates to the public domain, it is always under copyright. (The images are copyvios too.) - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 10:36, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Elephanta Caves


text:
Talk:Eleuthera

NYT article for datamining / (WT-en) Maj 16:38, 27 January 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Eleuthera