text:
Talk:Sifnos

Add your view on the lithology/geology, because this is purely based on some amateuristic observations during my holidays and not by decent fieldwork or literature review.
 * Wow, a lot of interesting information in there. I'm a little confused about the emphasis on the litho/geography -- is it one of the main attractions for this destination? It seems like a little more specific detail than you'll usually find in a travel guide. (WT-en) Maj 18:53, 8 September 2006 (EDT)

I'm not going to do it yet, but I'm suggesting removing the geological data. It's of interest, but it really belongs in the wikipedia Sifnos page rather than on the travel page. Maybe the contributor could move it there. I'll delete it eventually unless discussion justifies leaving it. (WT-en) Sailsetter 18:44, 8 March 2008 (EST)

I've removed the geological data. (WT-en) Sailsetter 10:20, 11 March 2008 (EDT)

I've removed the first line of the article, since of the three things it contains one, the island name, is already in the lines immediately above and below it, another, a link to the Cyclades section, is already in the line below it, and the third is a link to a hotel aggregator site which we're not supposed to do. (WT-en) Sailsetter 12:47, 13 March 2008 (EDT)

See
Add some antiquities sites. (WT-en) Sailsetter 19:04, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

Status
I think this article qualifies as usable, though it could use perhaps a couple more hotels. But most other information is at least usable quality if not more, so I've changed the status to usable. (WT-en) Sailsetter 15:32, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Sifnos


text:
Talk:Sighișoara

Exisiting content
"Vlad's birthplace known for its plethora of undead vampire bats which transpose quickly into flesh eating humanesque fangful dudes and dudettes ( known as bimbos ) destine to serve Vlad in his eternal life.

Also home to Vigo the Carpathian during his brief stint as a evil magician.

What a bunch of bad boys!"

While humorous, is there anything worthwhile in the above text?

-- (WT-en) Ilkirk 10:01, 23 Aug 2005 (EDT)

I think it was safe to remove. Maybe it should make its way to the Wikipedia page?

-- (WT-en) Meinhard Benn 15:25, 4 Nov 2005 (EET) - How do I generate this signature? I could not find it in the Help and hand-crafted it.

Get in
Are there really direct trains from Prague and Krakow?? There are several countries in between. I would have thought one would need to change trains several times?? --(WT-en) Oddeivind 15:38, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Website of Romania Tourism mentions such trains (the website of Romanian Railway Authority is so hard to use, and I have no clue on how to access the page for passenger train details, if it ever exists), but it seems on both occasions you have to stop over and transfer at Budapest. I'll update the article accordingly. – (WT-en) Vidimian 07:00, 17 May 2011 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Sighișoara


text:
Talk:Sihanoukville

Ok, where does one start in sorting out this page?!

I live in sihanoukville (last 8 months) and have been visiting for the past 2 years, no expert but at least I am prepared to provide completely impartial advice / information.

These edits seem rather partisan to say the least, and I've reverted them for time being. (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:13, 17 March 2007 (EDT)
 * I've attempted to engage the user, however, he/she has been attempting retaliatory deletions of the page. Should we do a temp page protection? -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 00:37, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

 * Alright, I'm going to go ahead and protect it. There's no reason Wikivoyage users should suffer because a business owner wants to act like a child.  Please revert the protection when you deem it's unnecessary. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 01:02, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

 * Since the offending child has been blocked should I unprotect this? -- 13:58, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

 * No, because I already did it. =P (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:41, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

 * Thank you! I'd forgotten about undoing it. -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 02:50, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

 * In the more than two and a half years that have now passed, it looks as if the owner found another IP address and deleted the review of Coasters, despite the criticisms being substantially watered down as a result of his abusive rants and bullying tone on this page. I re-instated the last pre-deletion version of that review.  I'm a new member, let me know if that was a breech of  Wikivoyage etiquette -- (WT-en) Donnacha • 22:50, 05 December 2009 (EDT)

 * While I'm at it, it is probably worth noting that the intervening years don't seem to have improved the owner's attitude - apart from more unhappy experiences reported on Tripadvisor and Travelfish, I came across this alarming 2009 Travelpod report of [guests being outright conned by the owner and reportedly having a reputation locally for such shenanigans : http://www.travelpod.com/travel-blog-entries/stellaone/1/1232332320/tpod.html -- (WT-en) Donnacha • 23:10, 05 December 2009 (EDT)

Inaccuracies
Sigh. I don't like dealing with assholes, but let's try to figure out if there's a point somewhere in his ranting.
 * "MOST OF THE INFORMATION ON BAMBOO ISLAND BELOW IS INCORRECT". This, unfortunately, is useless. Which information?
 * Shifty's doesn't have a pool table. Fine, I'll accept this on good faith.
 * Same Same But Different Guesthouse doesn't have internet access. Can't really find anything either way on this, might as well delete it.

As for Coasters itself, it gets two of two bad reviews on TripAdvisor and Travelfish, and there's some mighty familiar-sounding ALL CAPS RANTING on the Travelfish comments page. Anybody care to distill it down into a fair review? (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:31, 28 March 2007 (EDT)
 * Having problems with assholes must make living with yourself a hell on earth. You may notice ásshole 'that the reports you saw on both those sites are from the same person. Word for word asshole. Check it you fucking half brain. What about all the other reports. Why did you focus on such a singularly negative report. Where did you get the 'Coasters dismal security' detail from asshole? Malibu security is great you say!!??? Then check this out asshole. http://www.travelfish.org/accommodation_profile/cambodia/southern_cambodia/sihanoukville/ochheuteal_beach/all/1231/0?ord=0
 * Your Coasters reports are wrong wrong wrong. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 202.47.109.103 (talk • contribs) 09:36, 29 March 2007

 * Y'know, i'm starting to see why people are calling your service "rude"...

 * Anyway, I've rewritten the descriptions (except the Bamboo Island stuff, where you still haven't said what is incorrect). Flame away =) (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:46, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

I am not happy with your descriptions. This matter is not finished...not by a long shot. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 202.47.109.103 (talk • contribs)

 * So what would make you happy? (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:07, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

I havent time now so I will discuss the matter with you later. What I want is for you to be fair. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 202.47.109.103 (talk • contribs)

 * And what we're asking is for you to be helpful. Make specific factual criticisms and constructive suggestions. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 20:11, 1 April 2007 (EDT)

Where do you get it from??

MONOLITH n. 1 single block of stone shaped into a pillar. 2 A person or thing like a monolith in being massive, immovable, or solidly uniform. Who? Where? When? What? How? What are you talking about? How can you say that?? Have you been here?....its not possible. Would you like a few photos?? Coasters originally had 7 wooden bungalows. Three of them were losing the fight to termites, that was in 2003. It happens in Cambodia. We demolished them before the problem could seriously spread. We saved four of the original seven traditional bungalows and they remain in very good condition, recently re thatched, with the same daily rate they had in 2003, $15, despite the fact that energy utility prices have risen almost 200%. We removed the 3 problem bungalows and built red brick rooms in their place. We were losing business during the very hot season. Some people like air/con and air/con in a wooden bungalow, financially, doesn’t work. We covered the redbrick in the best quality plaster we could source to protect the structure against the heavy rain during that particular season. Its not concrete and It is not ugly. It was built with consideration and is now integrated into the surrounding greenery. Plants and trees grow quickly here. The vistas from these rooms are spectacular. Travelfish’s present introduction to Coasters was written when?? Have a look!! Its almost 4 year old! It was written before the building work was completed. How is that for up to date honest research? Travelfish is a site where time stands still. Its outdated introduction to Coasters is a travesty. It’s the first thing you see…YOUR FIRST IMPRESSION… four year old....COASTERS IS ABYSMAL ETC… The half wit high rise flat dweller full of hate and jealousy who scribbled the introduction said that when he asked for a discount on a $50 room the price was slashed in half in the blink of an eye ( something like that ). What crap. The room rates were not costed at random. The fat bearded prick who wrote that article. (I remember him…..a man on a mission… hostile….he went around the place like a whirlwind…nervous and a tad heavy, progressively indulgent indignant indigestive type. He also wrote a review on ‘’Coasters 2’’ Guesthouse. Find it? Where is it? It dosent exist. He decided to rename Mohachai GH as Coasters 2. And who is he?? No contact addy. A noname. Wikivoyage has great potential. It can be edited and updated. Many of the sites are brilliant. Some of the cities mentioned I know well. I think you are the only site I have ever seen that makes Manchester look like its worth a visit .In all honesty do you rate travelfish as a source of reliable up to date information? Please…why did you state that Coasters has a dismal security?? That simply is NOT true. And when I sent you the details of another establishment with truly DISMAL security…why didn’t you include that in your caring information for the public? How do you pick and choose? The monolith part…where is that from? Of all the guest houses in SV why did you choose to demonise Coasters? Unfairly…so unfairly…..why? About our food…to recommend only eating what you can peel was so unfair, that tore my heart out, its so untrue. We care for the people who stay here….their comfort, their security, the food we serve, the service we provide. We watch it constantly. When we don’t get it right we actively care about that. We thrive on feedback and are always VERY open to those who care to tell us that there is something they are not happy about. We do our best, we really do. I have thousands of email addresses of people who stayed here, do you want them?……contact them at random. Coasters is one of the most successful businesses in SV. That Andrew Haggard Sapphire (the aspiring diplomat DUDE who is into pigeons ) believes that I am afraid of or trying to damage competition. There are many guest houses and hotels around us so why are we so busy?? Stupid guests?? I don’t think so. Most of our customers are returns and we are very happy that families with young children enjoy staying here. Our staff are like family and without being intrusive or familiar, it emanates. Our clientele are all ages. Many interesting people. From everywhere. Doctors to diplomats and those in between and beyond. Would you like a copy of our recent guest register. Coasters menu is managed by a professional chef that we recruited in PP. Would you like a copy of our menu? We take food and hygiene very seriously. Come here, you are welcome. See for yourself.

Coasters, Serendipity Beach. One of the older restaurant/hotels on the beach, with older wooden huts (fan only) and newer brick buildings (air-con). Location on the beach is superb, close to nightlife yet quiet, but rooms are basic, plumbing is dodgy. PLUMBING IS NOT DODGY THE ONLY THING THATS DODGY IS YOUR REVIEW. restaurant gets mixed reviews. WHERE IN THE WORLD IS THERE A RESTAURANT THAT GETS STATIC REVIEWS? and service has drawn many complaints. PLEASE SHOW ME THE MANY COMPLAINTS ( How many?? From where? point me towards them?) Rates from US$15 (fan) to $55 (Wrong Wrong Wrong )Rates are from $8 To $60(beachside air-con), fairly expensive for what you get. THE BEACHSIDE AIRCON IS ALWAYS FULL>>>>>EXPLAIN THAT! Lets get to the bottom of this.....where do you get your information from?? And again I ask ....why didnt you offer the information about the guest house where people are being scammed.....I gave you the link to that. Why didnt you use it?

 * Hi! Stop shouting please, totally unnecessary. And please keep the comments on the talk page, don't insert your shouting into the article. Thanks! – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 05:19, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

Who is shouting?? Please stop giving false information. I have asked you on numerous occasions about your source. Whats your problem....Afraid of embarresing yourself? And once again why have you not updated your advice regarding: http://www.travelfish.org/accommodation_profile/cambodia/southern_cambodia/sihanoukville/ochheuteal_beach/all/1231/0?ord=0 You place such great faith into that travel site.....why dont you want to use the information in their above link?? Why are you putting false room rates?? You know nothing about this business....nothing.

About Bamboo Island....dont worry I can give you the correct information on that. First I want to clear this up.

 * Rob, dude, I'm seriously getting pretty fucking tired of this shit. We don't care who has ever visited Coaster's, we don't care how old the average guest is that has stayed at Coasters.  At this point, I'd rather talk to your boss, who allegedly threaten to have some girl, who you accuse of being a drunk, killed.

 * Can you pretend, even if for five minutes, that you and I have been best friends since Kindergarten? If you begin to treat me with some respect I'll begin to work with you and respect you, rather than assume you're just out to cause to problems.  I tried to work with you when you first started off on Wikivoyage, but you completely misunderstood my intentions and started acting like you had never interacted with anyone before.

 * You're also completely confusing "us". No organization is out to get you or Coaster's.  The wiki process works on collaboration for everyone, and that includes people you do not agree with.  So if you hate me, or anyone else that works on Wikivoyage — you're just going to have to suck it up, because I intend on being around for a while and anyone else who comes along and you don't agree with is permitted to be around.
 * I dislike several things on Wikivoyage, but there's not much I can do since other people think the status quo is fine, etc.... So in the words of Yasserr Arafat:
 * I come bearing an olive branch in one hand and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand.

 * Now, let's discuss, without using "CAPS" or anymore profanity. Yes, I did use profanity at the beginning of these comments, but from this sentence forward I do not want to use anymore profanity with you.

 * The way Jani described Coaster's seems decent enough, given some reviews I've been able to find about Coaster's. Not all of them come from the same Englishwoman that you accused of being a drunk and thief.

 * I have changed the rates to comply with the rates that are posted on your site. Now, exactly how many rooms does Coasters have available to rent at any given time?  Also, is the site that you operate an official website for Coaster's?

 * Also, could you ask Don to sign on and preferably get an account to work with us? At the moment, all we need are solid facts, nothing more.  No commentary, none of your opinions, and none of our opinions.  If we can start talking in a civilized manner, which should reflect none of the past postings, then we can actually get things done and changed, rather than go on and on.

 * My last question, for now, is does Coasters serve as an internet cafe? -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 23:29, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

"Rob, dude, I'm seriously getting pretty fucking tired of this shit." Rob?? Rob who?? Who do you assume you are talking to? "Now, let's discuss, without using "CAPS" or anymore profanity." Lets DUDE. Lets start with this ...given some reviews I've been able to find about Coaster's.... Point me towards them...where are they? I keep asking that but you dont reply.....we can understand the others reasons if we have the reasonable relevent information. For example. Dodgy plumbing...Where is that from. Is it one complaint...many...a few?? What?? On what do you base you Coasters reviews on?

"At the moment, all we need are solid facts, nothing more" If you are suddenly interested in solid facts then I am glad to hear that. Up to now you have been working on anything but. And again I ask what about http://www.travelfish.org/accommodation_profile/cambodia/southern_cambodia/sihanoukville/ochheuteal_beach/all/1231/0?ord=0 Do you want to talk to Don.....contact coasters1@gmail.com -  —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 203.144.75.18 (talk • contribs)

 * Sounds like mixed reviews to me... this is from a quick google search, and by no means comprehensive:

 * "Just back from 4 nights at the Coasters Hotel in Sihanoukville and have to say it's not been great. On the positive side, the location is great - right on the beach and next door to a great restaurant..."

 * " Be sure to tell them, that you want the room to be cleaned every day." -  (yes, I picked this out from a mostly positive review)

 * One thing I will say for Coasters--the food is excellent. Can't recommend the rooms, but we had some wonderful seafood--and unlike everyone else in Cambodia, they know how to deep fry. -

 * "Coasters" on the beach is a favorite on my guest-house travel list and I`ve seen a lot of them. The rooms are clean, air con and basic, but the restaurant-bar (excellent food) and location are first rate and the staff is the best.

 * "I was traveling with a girlfriend of mine for several months through Asia Pacific. We chose Coasters because of the ideal location on the beach and nice deck setup and looking forward to unwinding. However that is where the positives of the experience stopped. We had hoped to stay longer but ended up leaving after two nights. The staff was rude and were not very helpful. The rooms were pretty run down and inadequate for the price. When we did decide to leave, we found that the initial price agreed for the room had risen by US$10. Out of all of the places we stayed at during our travels, this was by far the worst one. There are so many other great spots on the beach. The place has a lot of potential but the managers are just unwilling to make it happen. Choose another location to stay, the hassle of this place isn't worth the money." - added 12/2006, on travelfish - you've seen this and the others on there, since you responded to them there.

 * There were a few more positive ones that I came across, but they sounded like they'd been written by an employee. Again, this is a wiki and anyone can update it. There is no "we" around here, this isn't an organization with employees, this is just a constantly changing group of people that want to write a travel guide. Some articles are really complete, but most are still a work in progress. The fact that someone added a more full-featured review for Coasters, and that nobody had yet added the theft/scams to Malibu's review doesn't show any bias... it simply means that the Sihanoukville page still needs work and isn't complete. Which, by the way, is pointed out by the bar at the bottom of the pages that denote that page's status... Sihanoukville is currently at "Usable", which means it still needs considerable work.

 * I've changed the service comment from "many complaints" to "some complaints" to tone it down a bit. But I don't think the rest of the review sounds unreasonable, do you? I'm sure you've had plenty of satisfied customers, and I'm sure you're aware of those that haven't been so satisfied. The review should reflect reality, this guide in no way should become like a tourist brochure. RE: the plumbing comment, that is most likely based on a couple of the Travelfish reviews. Any other questions? Are you still horribly dissatisfied with the Coasters review (keeping in mind that it needs to reflect the opinion of travelers, even those that you don't like or agree with )? I've also added a note to Malibu, since yes, that should be reflected in their review.  – (WT-en) cacahuate   talk 18:47, 8 April 2007 (EDT)

Hello Cacahuate, Thank you for the feedback and all the information. To be honest I am a bit shocked by some of it but very happy to have the details. I will respond to you in a few days as I have a small journey starting this evening. If you are interested Coasters has 8 computers with reliable high speed internet that are available to the public. They are located at the back of the restaurant so you can surf while watching the surf.

Deletion
I rolled back the deletion of about half this talk page. Yes, it's perfectly OK to delete or amend harsh words that you regret later (Project:Using talk pages), but deleting an entire conversation between several people is excessive. --(WT-en) Evan 10:35, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

I agree with you not to delete anything. I did it because when I saved a page the additional text didnt appear. I thought it was because there was no room, sorry. It is Khmer New year now, one of the busiest periods of the year. It takes a few days to wind down. Will be in touch soon. PS I certainly have no regrets about anything I said.

For Mr Humble Haggard AKA Sapphire AKA Mary Poppins
"Is Richard Dawkins a jerk for not telling the whole truth about the hypothetical theory of everything? To further this question, are religions juvenile superstitions?" Go on Mr Humble pigeon fucker....you tell us. Put Richard Dawkins in his place. Lets have a laugh. You can do a job on Darwin while your at it.

"If you're from the UK and wondering why my name sounds familiar it's because I'm a bit of a celebrity on the opposite side of the pond." HA HA! a bit of a celebrity!! Go on!!

"My favorite painting is 'Street' by 'John Singer Sargent" How cultivated!! Was he in the military choir?? What a dickhead DUDE!! Go on ...ban me little boy.. get your lawyer daddy after me. Embassadorrr Haggard (very thin especially from disease, worn, weakened, Appearing worn and exhausted; gaunt, wild or distraught in appearance,intractable.)....HA HA HA. The press would love it. Stick to washing pots you little prick.

"Can space be created, if there is no space for space to exist in?" I bet you love trying that one on your boyfriends. Here try this. If it took a man a week to walk a fortnight how many apples are there in a barrel of grapes? "I want to be this that and the other..Anyone know of a good college...Yes try this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grangegorman Poor andy.....I'll let you off the hook for the moment. This is Don from Coasters here. Do me a favor...take Coasters off your Sihanoukville page. Its off the mark. Tell me...of all the Hotels Guest houses in SV...and there are many....how did you focus your feeble little brain on Coasters?? I may have an idea. Joel ring a bell?? Its all hogwash. Its your ambition to write about a place you have never been. You are doing it already you moron....its fiction...aided and abetted by big egos who pretend their jobs and their hobbies are one and the same. As for drunks and thieves....do you want to talk about that? The travelfish page ....there are no contributions by Coasters staff on that. Another fiction. Thousands have stayed here...have you?

Stay Healthy
Request someone who knows add statements about the safe potability of tap water or need to use bottled water, and risks of ice made from water from unknown sources. Regards,  jdh

Unexplained deletion
I just reverted an unexplained deletion of Coasters guesthouse. Is there a reason to delete it? (WT-en) Pashley 01:59, 29 July 2010 (EDT)

More detail about snorkeling please! :-)
"Snorkeling. Possible around most of the islands, with the best snorkeling being at the further our islands for visibility, corals and fish" This is good, but how does one get on such a trip, and to which islands? It sounds like the Bamboo Island trip is not the one that you're referring to with this sentence. ta -NB

Accommodation advice please
hey, can anyone tell me which are the cheapest options? i´m talking about the $1 - $2 dorm, or room with shared facilities. thanks

-- Utopia guest house in Serendipity area, actually a handful of the guesthouses right around it as well offer $2-$3 dorms too.

Moved from article
Just for reference, so that the listing can be reinstated when the bungalows are actually rebuilt and accommodating guests. Until then, the entry is not useful to travelers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:39, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

External link
Moved from the article, because it would seem to violate external links but might be of interest and use to travelers:

For more information on topics discussed by tourists and expats living in Sihanoukville: http://www.sihanoukvilleonline.com/forum/index.php

Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:54, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

How to get around?
If I'd be going to Sihanoukville now I'd be pretty confused about the Get around section and the last edits to it. First it says it is easy to get around by motodops and tuk-tuks. Yet after that it warns that the drivers are systematically overcharging you and even extorting commissions from whatever establishment they are bringing you to. OK, so the solution to this is not to use them if possible.

The article then states you can rent a scooter or motorbike and drive yourself. Sounds good. All hotels allegedly rent them, yet foreigners are not allowed to rent scooters and the police are patrolling the roads and streets catching people violating this law. Well, in that case we should perhaps not advertise them in the first place.

I would image any Cambodians staying at those hotels would have their own vehicles and thus wouldn't need to rent anything so why are the hotels providing this service? Is it because "dumb tourists" are handing over $6-7 without knowing they can use the scooter only until they encounter a police officer? In that case should definitely warn readers not to waste their money.

If the only problem-free ways of getting around are by foot, rented motorcycle or car (?) or taxi, then let's state it clearly. ϒpsilon (talk) 14:56, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

Castaways listings
I haven't been to Sihanoukville, but I tend to think the "Eat" listing for Castaways should at most be consolidated into the "Sleep" listing for the same establishment, and at least may not have necessary info, but in an abundance of caution, I'd merge them. Am I wrong, though? Is it an important enough eatery to merit a separate listing in the "Eat" section? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:51, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

How can I add description of Bamboo Bar Vegetarian Restaraunt
If I edit text for your site, for it looks not like ad? Because Ikan Kekek deleted my listing, because, he said, it is very look-like ad. Thank you. —The preceding comment was added by Ushiushi2015 (talk • contribs)

 * Because you or someone else associated with that business repeatedly edit warred by way of insisting on touting, not only was your listing delisted; your URL was also put on the Wikimedia-wide spam blacklist. See article history here. You or others working for this business have wasted a lot of volunteer users' time. Why should we now relent because you've suddenly decided to finally engage in some kind of dialogue with us? What guarantee would you give us that you actually read don't tout carefully and will do it right this time, and frankly, at this point, why should we care? Responsible business owners are just as welcome to contribute as any other user, but this site is for the benefit of travelers, not of businessmen or publicists who've edit warred 8 times, if I haven't missed one or two other instances. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:51, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

 * Former user didn`t know about your wikipedia-like style of rules and that`s because she just update and update the listing: she decided, that it was just some technical errors. Can I add this text for listing: "Bamboo Bar Vegetarian Restaurant, Ochheteaul beach road - Only fresh healthy vegetarian food, not using MSG or fish sauce, only purified water and ice. Ping-pong and table games. Located on the Ochheteaul beach road (just 50 m from the sea). Open 24 hours 7 days per week."? Thank you. —The preceding comment was added by Ushiushi2015 (talk • contribs)

 * I have a lot of trouble believing you. How easy is it to ignore a flashing light when you log on that tells you that your account is blocked and you need to check your user talk page? You paid her to do this, right? And what Wikipedia-like rules?

 * I think your proposed listing is still a bit touty, by the way. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:23, 2 February 2016 (UTC)

 * User:Ibaman, you were also involved in the edit war on this establishment. Do you think we should spend more time on this? I would vote No, as the listing in question is not likely to be of great importance to travelers and we've spent too much time on this. But I'd like your view. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:52, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I also have trouble believing this... I second that No. Ibaman (talk) 10:03, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I work with this guys (BambooBar) not very long. and I`m not very experienced wiki-user. Former girl didn`t know about wiki anything - she even didn`t know about history of edits in wiki, and she didn`t know about these discussions. Why can`t you let me to publish listing, that you like, and that, which looks not like ad? —The preceding comment was added by 42.115.42.157 (talk • contribs)
 * It's important to you, as a publicist or employee of that business, to add a listing, but why is it important to this site's readers? Anyway, we just feel like we've spent too much time on this. If you want to see if someone else feels like working with you, you can always try posting to Travellers' pub, but link this discussion, so that everyone understands the background. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:16, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Can I try to add my listing of Bamboobar one more time, without violating any rules of wikivoyage idea?

How can I de-de-list and de-blacklist Bamboo Bar?
How can I add proper listing of Bamboo Bar without violation of any parts of wikivoyage idea? And what we should do if someone of our guests, or someone from vegetarian subculture decide to add listing about our restauraunt to Wikivoyage/Sihanoukville. —The preceding comment was added by Ushiushi2015 (talk • contribs)

 * Did you notice the thread immediately above this new one? People representing this establishment touted and edit warred so many times that its URL was put on the global Wikimedia spam blacklist. Explain why it's so important to travellers and our readership for you to have a listing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:25, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

 * You were a participant in that thread and got an answer there. So are you wasting more of our time now, or do you have something new to say? I'd normally be more polite, but given the history... Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:27, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Bamboo Bar
Hello Wikivoyage Community.

I am unaware of the history with this listing. I am trying to add Bamboo as I feel it is an important place. One of few 24/7 bars here in Cambodia, Sihanoukville. But each time I do I get a message from you that you removed it.

Could you tell me how to get this listing up? And what the cause of the blacklisting is? I don't understand these past problems.

Any help would be appreciated.

Interpidexplorer (talk) 07:06, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

 * There are two threads directly above this that appear to clarify the situation. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 07:33, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Hi,

I read all of them just after my post. Ikan suggested I post this here to resolve. I appreciate there is time wasting that has gone on. I hope to resolve it with you once and for all. Please can you advice me on how to post this listing. Bamboo is an important place in Sihanoukville. One of a few 24/7 bars. I think that all the mess above is down to language barriers and user error or lack of knowledge about wiki rules. Can we agree to work together and close this problem.

Guide me to make the listing correct please.

Thank you.

Interpidexplorer (talk) 08:41, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

 * I strongly disagree that the long edit war was purely due to a lack of understanding, and my problem with your approach is that it at least initially fit into the previous edit warring, in that you started off with a duplicated listing. Here's your last attempt at a listing:

 * There are a few relatively small problems with it that could be addressed, but the main issue is the history of touting/edit warring that resulted in this establishment's URL being blacklisted.

 * I would solicit the opinion of User:Ibaman before any other step is taken.

 * Ikan Kekek (talk) 14:57, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Hello User:Ibaman,

Please could you assist me in this matter. I appreciate the bad history. None that I was a part of. I would like to list this and to let this matter be once and for all.

I would appreciate the help.

Interpidexplorer (talk) 04:31, 4 May 2017 (UTC)

Wikidata
This article is currently linked to the Sihanoukville Province not Sihanoukville (city), other language Wikivoyage articles are under both. Would be good to sort this out. --Traveler100 (talk) 07:42, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

 * Yes, it would. Where is the link? Can it simply be changed? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:15, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Notice: Wide-area warning issued for Cambodia, Myanmar and Thailand
In recent months, there is a surge of human trafficking reported in Cambodia, Myanmar and Thailand, where travellers (mainly Taiwanese travellers, Chinese travellers were more common pre-COVID) were tricked by fake job offers, travelled to and abducted in these countries, and forced to work for criminal syndicates like slaves. In response to the trend, I have issued warnings for articles of Cambodia (particularly Sihanoukville), Myanmar (particularly Northern Myanmar) and Thailand.

References (all in Chinese):
 * 柬埔寨人口販賣事件, the article recording the surge on Chinese Wikipedia.
 * Travel warning (highest level) for Cambodia, issued by Taiwanese MFA.
 * Information page by the Taiwanese MFA.
 * News report by Taiwanese investigative journalist The Reporter, covering the background of the surge and involvement of local Taiwanese gangs.
 * News report by Hong Kong newspaper am730.
 * News report by Hong Kong newspaper Ming Pao, illustrating the death of a victim.
 * News report by Hong Kong newspaper Ming Pao highlighting Hong Kong travellers have also fallen into victim, luckily most of them are successfully rescued.
 * News report (in English) by The Diplomat, illustrating the seriousness of the trend.

Please check if there are problems of over-bolding or other grammatical problems, and feel free to add more on advices if necessary.廣九直通車 (talk) 06:41, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

 * Thank you, that's a good addition (the warnings are in 'Work', for anyone else interested). If you haven't already done so, it might be a good idea to add these to zh.wikivoyage.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 07:05, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This seems horrendous and frightful should definitely be mentioned. Thanks for adding them . Agree with tt! that it might be a good idea to add this to zh.voy. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 11:31, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll keep on my sentry work, just like how I made my first warning on COVID for Wuhan (sigh it's almost 2 years and the pandemic still doesn't come to an end...). Will follow up on Chinese Wikivoyage.廣九直通車 (talk) 11:36, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * While the entire Chinese Wikivoyage is mostly empty (that's why I'm more focused in here), I've also ✅ with the warnings at there: see 柬埔寨, 泰国, 緬甸 and 西哈努克. Perhaps after there are no further comments, this thread should be swept to the corresponding article talk pages.廣九直通車 (talk) 13:27, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

 * We do have some cautionary info at Working_abroad, Common_scams and Volunteer_travel. I wonder if those need to be expanded or if some links should be added either in this article or in those.
 * Certainly variations on the problem are fairly widespread. In my own travels I've encountered:

 * Filipinas trapped in exploitive jobs in Saudi Arabia (1980s, not sure if it still happens). She cannot leave the country without an exit visa and getting that requires the boss's signature. He says she's a lazy bitch & he's not signing. She says he beat or raped her, often both. My advice would be don't go anywhere where you'd need an exit visa to leave.
 * An agency charging Chinese nurses large up-front fees for placements in Canada on domestic servant visas taking care of disabled people, mostly Alzheimer's patients. Salary might have sounded good to a Chinese, but it was much less than you'd get working at McDonald's and hours were much longer.
 * Things I've only heard about include an Indian diplomat in the US mistreating domestic help (Devyani Khobragade incident), Fujian girls being smuggled to Taipei being thrown overboard when the Taiwan Coast Guard caught the boats, Snakehead gangs importing prostitutes to the US. Pashley (talk) 14:56, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Here pickers of wild berries are imported from e.g. south-east Asia. They often have to take loans for the journey. The buyers of the berries arrange visa, travel, accommodation, intro, transport to the woods etc., but usually do not employ them. One year the harvest was weak and the pickers couldn't pay the loans. Volunteers helped them go to court to claim employment, but the pickers couldn't afford to stay during the multiple-year process, so they settled at terms they could live with. The berry-pickers are still not regarded employees, but to get visas for their labour, the buyers now need to guarantee a minimum income (and there are more eyes on lodgings, rents etc.). We have also had a number of outright illegal arrangements, mainly in other trades. The common denominator seems to be loans and threat of being expelled from the country for illegal work, in the cases where it isn't about direct slavery. For those who have an income at home, the risk of being expelled isn't a reason to remain in slavery, but if you have family you cannot feed without the foreign income ... The criminals may also threaten you and your family in your country of origin, especially if the justice is weak there. –LPfi (talk) 20:16, 18 August 2022 (UTC)

I support these warnings. Last night I added caution boxes to Tachileik and Myawaddy  on the same issue. And it is not just targetting individuals who speak Chinese. Malaysian and Indonesian were also targetted by the same group of fraudsters. This merits posting in English to reach as wide audience as possible. I do not think this is the typical "run of the mills" employment scams since those commons scams only want your money. The current scam hold you hostage and force you to work for them. OhanaUnitedTalk page 01:30, 19 August 2022 (UTC)

 * I appreciate these kinds of warnings. They are important. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:54, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Update: It seems that not only aspirant workers are falling victim, criminals are also targeting the average travellers. Some may recruit workers in local front companies and traffic victims en masse using company tours, others may use individualized vacation invitation to lure them to these countries (see this report by HK TV Channel i-Cable), all followed up by abduction. I genuinely don't know when will the criminals resort to random abduction if the situation worsens. Given by such worrying scenario, I have raised the warnings to the top of all these articles. Please advice if this is appropriate or they should be send back to stay safe, regards.廣九直通車 (talk) 11:42, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Also thanks to for leaving proper warning, have upgraded these warnings to warningboxbased on the template's usage guidelines.廣九直通車 (talk) 13:40, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I read that Laos may also be one of the destinations. I propose adding the same warning to Laos. OhanaUnitedTalk page 22:15, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The warningbox at the top of the article should be very brief. Most of the information could be in Work (not necessarily in a warning box), that relevant also for those not intending to find work in Stay safe. Some of this should probably be in Working abroad and Common scams. –LPfi (talk) 06:36, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for 's and your opinion. I have send these warnings back to "Work" and "Stay safe" (if work is not yet created). Though do you think a very brief warning on the top with link to the more detailed warning is OK?廣九直通車 (talk) 04:16, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The warning starts with: Telecommunication fraud, illegal remote gambling are rampant in parts of Thailand and its neighbours, Myanmar and Cambodia. How does this relate to te rest of the info in the warning box? --FredTC (talk) 06:02, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * You mean the warning for Thailand? I make special remark on Cambodia and Myanmar, because Thailand is a major transit hub for human traffickers to transit victims from their country to their bases in Cambodia and Myanmar, though criminal bases do exist in Thailand (like the notorious "KK園區", not sure what's its English name). The remainder of the warning focus on common methods used by human traffickers and ways to avoid them. If you have concerns about coherence, please make your point clearer, thank you.廣九直通車 (talk) 09:43, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I mean the "Telecommunication fraud, illegal remote gambling" -part of the text. FredTC (talk) 09:58, 24 August 2022 (UTC)
 * For that part I tried to lay down the context and background. After all, criminals don't traffic and abduct victims for no reason, they do these because they need to recruit manpower for them.廣九直通車 (talk) 03:16, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sihanoukville


text:
Talk:Silesia (region)

Information removed from article
''A train schedule is not the best information since the schedule could change. A paragraph or two explaining the general routes would be better.'' -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 12:52, 4 Nov 2005 (EST)

 * Os 3001 Petrovice u Karvine (3:09) - Zavada - Karvina hl.n. - Detmarovice - Dolni Lutyne - Bohumin (3:41)
 * Os 3017 Bohumin (22:39) - Dolni Lutyne - Detmarovice - Karvina hl.n. - Zavada - Petrovice u Karvine (23:10)

title: Talk:Silesia (region)


text:
Talk:Siliguri

Siliguri/New Jalpaiguri
I propose that we rename this page Siliguri/New Jalpaiguri with redirects from Siliguri and NJP. For travelers, both Siliguri and NJP are primarily staging points for travel to Darjeeling and Sikkim (Siliguri by air and bus, NJP by rail). It makes sense to club them together so that searching for info on how to get from X (Calcutta) to Y (Sikkim) without having to know which page to consult. Not sure what the wikivoyage policy on this is (the two cities are 8km apart) so let me know!--(WT-en) Wandering 12:31, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

Siliguri/New Jalpaiguri
New Jalpaiguri is not a different place. It is a part of Siliguri and it comes under Siliguri Jurisdiction. As we call Sealdah the station of Kolkata same way NJP is the railway station of Siliguri. —The preceding comment was added by 125.18.104.1 (talk • contribs) 10:32, 17 March 2010

Size of photos
I'll be candid: I find the photo of the Siliguri City Centre Mall quite boring, which is why I moved it from the lead position to the "Buy" section and reduced it to default thumbnail size. I like the lead photo I added, but I think that, too, is too big at its current size of 400px and would be perfectly OK at default thumbnail size or slightly bigger. I'm uninterested in an edit war but would like to try to achieve a consensus about these matters. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:36, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

How far is too far to list?
I've moved this listing here for discussion for the time being:

According to Google Maps, this resort is over 1 hour's drive from Siliguri, with the train taking almost 1 1/2 hours. That seems to me to be too far to list, but if we do list it, the fact that it is so far away must be noted clearly in the "content". What do you all think? List, or don't list? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:05, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Does seem a bit far - drop Matroc (talk) 05:30, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

Wholesalers
The idea of this site is primarily to serve individual travelers. Sure, occasionally, an individual traveler will be a wholesale purchaser, but as a rule, I don't see how we can list tea shops that sell only wholesale or through international ecommerce sites that can't be mentioned per what not to link to (amazon.com, etc.). However, since I see several and don't want to be too presumptuous, I've moved them here:

 * Brewed Leaf, 4th floor, OM Towers, Mittal Complex, Opposite Anandaloke Hospital, Sevoke Road - +975 734001,9686324721,info@brewedleaf.com.Exotic range of tea, such as olive, hibiscus, and rose. Available for wholesale or through online ecommerce channels like Amazon and flipkart.

The last one is the most ambiguous because they do sell through their own site. However, if I can purchase their tea without leaving my home in the U.S., how is the listing very travel-relevant? Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:14, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Don't list, for the reasons you provided. Online sales of goods is not relevant for a travel guide, unless it is an article about buying suitcases or other travel supplies. Ground Zero (talk) 00:18, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Do you also agree that we wouldn't list wholesalers unless they offer tours or something? -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:22, 29 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, wholesalers and online sellers don't belong in Wikivoyage, in general. Some exceptions apply, of course. Ground Zero (talk) 02:21, 29 January 2021 (UTC)

Request for comments
@Ikan Kekek, @SHB2000, @Ground Zero any room for improvement in this article/guide? Any suggestions will be appreciated. 2006nishan178713t@lk 19:04, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

 * It needs some work. Fixed spelling per Talk:India and did some copyedits. But some of the phone numbers have +91 0XX but from my understanding, only Italy and San Marino retain the zero in an international format. Some of the times also need to be adjusted to conform to wv:tdf. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:14, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, I will look into that. 2006nishan178713t@lk 04:22, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * @SHB2000
 * Phone numbers have been changed to - +91-XXXXX-XXXXX
 * Fixed line numbers have been changed to- +91-353-XXX-XXXX
 * I will check if all the numbers that were added many years back still exist. 2006nishan178713t@lk 05:01, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Nice work :). It looks almost ready to go to guide status, but I'd like another opinion before upgrading as I easily miss things. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:04, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah! Some more work is required, like the route box in the bottom etc. I am also thinking to change the banner as the current one looks centered towards a particular religion. Next time I visit Siliguri, I will take a nice picture :) 2006nishan178713t@lk 05:11, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I noted this on your user talk page, but 2006nishan178713, please don't delete unused fields from listing templates. I don't think an article can be guide-level with a bunch of listing templates that have deleted fields, because of this criterion: "Listings and layout closely match the manual of style." Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:02, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Another thing is that the "Climate" section seems overly encyclopedic. How many travellers would care that "Siliguri falls under the humid subtropical climate (Cwa), when using the Köppen climate classification"? Can we delete that sentence? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:16, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree. It should just simply say that Siliguri has a humid subtropical climate. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:19, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * done, I guess so 2006nishan178713t@lk 06:21, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * @Ikan Kekek, just a note, when you add listings by accessing the template tab of the visual editor it automatically deletes unused fields, I assume that's what happened on this article. Is there a way to change it so doing it that way doesn't automatically delete empty fields. Tai123.123 (talk) 06:26, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I don't use the visual editor so that's never happened to me, but maybe you might need to file a phabricator task as to why it deletes unused fields. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:31, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * cc . SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:32, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I use Source editor and probably the unused fields get deleted when we put info through the template tab. 2006nishan178713t@lk 06:49, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I think it happens whenever you use the template tab Tai123.123 (talk) 06:51, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * yes 2006nishan178713t@lk 06:57, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * For Example-
 * Place name- Atlantis
 * Lat- 26.6544
 * Long- 86.6444
 * Website- example.com
 * email- example@example.com
 * content- Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat.
 * gives 👇 2006nishan178713t@lk 06:52, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Very unfortunate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:25, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes! Empty fields don't get added by the template automatically. 2006nishan178713t@lk 07:36, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * They do if you create the template by clicking one of the icons to the right of "Listings" in the menu above your edit screen. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:33, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * We developed the Listing Editor to preserve, and in case re-insert, any empty or missing field, and all the fields are written in the "correct" order; this will facilitate the editor during direct wikicode update.
 * AFAIK, Visual Editor doesn't delete the empty field, but has another side effect: it will write each field in a different line, resulting in a less compact (and non-standard) "presentation". If I'm not wrong we opened a ticket for this (almost ignored by now...).
 * I haven't undestood if Source editor is a third tool (that I don't know) or if it's a different way to call "Visual editor".
 * All that said.
 * To restore the standard wiki-code, you should open each single listing with Listing Editor and save it (no need to change anything). This will restore the situation.
 * My very long "To do" list, include a tool to restore in just one click all the listings present in the article. But sorry, I don't foresee to start this activity very soon. -- Andyrom75 (talk) 09:11, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I think the Listing editor (default one) breaks down when the template is used as mentioned in https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Listing_editor#Bugs_and_feedback. For me at least it is broken. 2006nishan178713t@lk 09:52, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * @2006nishan178713 skip at the moment the go template. I'll check them later. At the moment fix the listing, see, do, eat, sleep, drink and buy ones, then ping me. Andyrom75  (talk) 11:41, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay 2006nishan178713t@lk 11:42, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay 2006nishan178713t@lk 11:42, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Siliguri


text:
Talk:Silimbong

VFD Discussion
Silimbong was nominated for deletion in December 2008. The result of the nomination was no consensus. - (WT-en) Huttite 06:59, 21 February 2009 (EST)

Silimbong

 * Delete. Appears to just be a forest, without lodgings. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:42, 11 December 2008 (EST)
 * Merge to Darjeeling (district). (WT-en) LtPowers 16:43, 11 December 2008 (EST)
 * Merge as suggests. Nine years is long enough. Ground Zero (talk) 23:16, 11 March 2017 (UTC)

 * Merge it - doesn't look like there can ever be enough content to fill out a whole article. JuliasTravels (talk) 21:55, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

I've merged it to Milik, the closest village. Ground Zero (talk) 00:31, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Silimbong


text:
Talk:Silk Road

Early discussion
This is copied from http://members.tripod.com/~kz2000/history/silkroute.html We need to have the author state that it is there work and that they are releasing it under Project:Copyleft. I'm going to move the info here until this happens. Thanks (WT-en) Majnoona 10:50, 8 Jun 2004 (EDT)
 * Also at http://www.orexca.com/silkroad.php, which claims copyright. Stuff like this on the web, who knows where it's originally from -- everybody copies it and stamps a copyright on it. Trash it and forget about it, I say. -- (WT-en) Paul Richter 11:02, 8 Jun 2004 (EDT)

For data mining
removed from article due to copyright issue

 * I removed the content from here, too. If it's not copyright-clean for the main namespace, it doesn't belong in the Talk: namespace, either. We've got links above, which can be used for reference and data-mining. --(WT-en) Evan 13:00, 8 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * OK, I was holding out a tiny hope that it was posted by the author... (WT-en) Majnoona 13:19, 8 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Just to close off that issue, nearly all the current text was added by me and is original. There is no longer any copyright problem. Someone might still mine either links above or those I added in the article and improve the text, though. (WT-en) Pashley 05:11, 13 August 2006 (EDT)

Merge tag
I disagree with the addition of the merge tag. The itinerary is at usable status, and it's one of the best known routes in human history! --Peter Talk 15:15, 19 September 2012 (CEST)

 * I disagree too, but following the changed itineraries policy, I had to tag it for being merged and redirected. Unlike something like Route 66 or Appalachian Trail, there is not one "Silk Road", it's more of a concept with many ways to traverse it. --Globe-trotter (talk) 15:21, 19 September 2012 (CEST)

 * Well, to be sure, but there's nothing in the policy against having multiple routes? I suppose it could be re-branded as a travel topic, but still think it works better as an itinerary. --Peter Talk 01:16, 20 September 2012 (CEST)

 * I see the tag is gone, Good! Had I noticed it earlier, I'd have disagreed as well. Pashley (talk) 17:20, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

Russia?
We list branches off the route at Silk_Road. Should a branch to Russia and/or the Caucasus states be added? I know Russian influence was extremely important in this area in the 19th & 20th centuries. I do not know if there was significant trade earlier. Pashley (talk) 17:20, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, first of all I must say that I do not understand the point of this itinerary. It looks like a historical background, not like a useful travel guide (I am not saying that the article is useless, I just don't see it is a travel guide). But if you want some idea on the branch that ran around the Caspian sea, here my thoughts are:
 * The Russian city of Astrakhan, which is known since 14th century, was preceded by Atil. Both cities were of major importance in the trade between Russia and Asian countries. Caravans along the Silk road passed through these cities as well.
 * Derbent is the oldest city of Russia. It is known since 5th century BC. Of course, it has been Persian, not Russian, but now it is part of Russia. The region, which is presently known as Dagestan, had more ancient cities, but their locations are vague and there is absolutely nothing to see.
 * Taman, a small village on the Taman peninsula (between the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov), is a location of the ancient city of Tmutarakan. I am not sure whether it belonged to the Silk road (the caravans likely moved south along the Caspian Sea, not west to the Black Sea), but it is the only settlement with ancient Russian origin in this region. It was Russian (I mean, it had some Slavic folks) as early as 10th century.
 * Baku, Tbilisi and many other Trans-Caucasian cities were of major importance for the trade along the Silk road, but they are a different story that is vaguely related to Russia.
 * --Alexander (talk) 19:10, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
 * The historical Silk Road is something that captures the imagination of many travelers, as evidenced by all the ultra-expensive tour packages! I know a bit about the Transcaucasian sites, only a couple of which were actually on a route to Europe, through (if I'm not mistaken) Baku, Barda, and sites in Southern Armenia that I'm really not familiar with. Tbilisi, Kutaisi, Batumi, and Yerevan were certainly all routinely visited by the caravans (Yerevan probably was on a main route), but I don't think any of them have Silk Road-related attractions. Places I know that do have such attractions:
 * Baku's old walled city has to be one of the cooler places for a Silk Road tourist to visit.
 * Barda — OK, I don't really know if there's anything to see here, and it's near a borderline war zone, but it was the capital of Caucasian Albania, and a major stop on the route.
 * Sheki — in between Baku and Derbent, with a pretty magnificent Caravansaray that is now a hotel and (good) restaurant
 * Yeghegnadzor — Selim Caravansaray
 * Uplistsikhe — another really cool site, a cave city that existed until the Silk Road traffic died down
 * Sukhumi is by ruins of the Kelasuri Wall, supposedly built by Byzantine Emperor Justinian between Sukhumi and Poti to protect trade routes north of the Caucasus mountain passes from the Persians, and would have been second in length only to the Great Wall of China in that era.
 * That's all I know! --Peter Talk 23:00, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

I have added a one-line summary under "branches off the road": If someone who knows more can improve or expand that, please plunge forward. Pashley (talk) 11:52, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
 * passing North of the Caspian Sea, instead of through Iran, to Astrakhan and on to Russia and the Caucasus

Mongol Empire
Not to nitpick over the history section, but an article about the Silk Road would be missing a very large part of it's history section without mentioning Genghis Khan and the Mongol Empire's 200 year control of the entire length of the silk road. Not to mention successor states like the Chagatai Khanate, Moghulistan, and the Il Khan that were all controlled by descendents of Genghis Khan. The later collapse of which pushed trade to the sea route.Altaihunters (talk) 01:59, 9 October 2013 (UTC)
 * That isn't nitpicking. Please add the info about Genghis Khan. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:34, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

 * We now have a Mongol Empire article. Pashley (talk) 09:52, 21 July 2021 (UTC)

Map
I found this map quite better than current one under section "Maritime Silk Road". --Saqib (talk) 19:24, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

 * Nice, thanks. I have added it. Pashley (talk) 19:55, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

How far back does trade go?
I am reading a book on Ancient Britain which says a Cro-Magnon site in France had shell from the Indian Ocean. It does not give an exact date, but the Cro-Magnons were 15,000 BCE and earlier so that is evidence of trade or migration over part of the Silk Road a very long time back.

The article currently mentions nothing earlier than 2500 BCE or so. Should it? Is there other evidence of ancient trade? Did known migrations of ancient man use what were later Silk Road routes? Pashley (talk) 16:27, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Expanding routes
Hi Everyone, I was one of the guys that wrote the routes section in the wikitravel version of this article. I noticed a lot of that information didn't make it over. So I will gradually expand on this section. One thing I noticed is the Beyond Kashgar part is very lacking in detail. And the Baghdad to Damascus section is just not useful for any traveler. So I will write that as historical and fix it up to use Anatolia. If anybody has any issues or objections, please let me know. Tigerleapgorge (talk) 17:39, 1 July 2014 (UTC)

 * Historical for the time being, but things change, and some fine day, the Baghdad to Damascus route will be safe again. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:52, 2 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Chinese president in Pakistan today launched a massive infrastructure investment deal which will hopefully revamp the Pak-China route. Although it will take some years to have proposed expressway and railway link but thought of sharing here that 21st century Silk Rd is coming. --Saqib (talk) 20:33, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

 * New Silk Road – first container train from China arrives in Kaluga, Russia Pashley (talk) 23:31, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

BBC on "new silk road"
Good article, though I'd say the beeb is drinking Chinese gov't koolaid when it comes to choice of route. Pashley (talk) 16:40, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

Interesting map
An Incredibly Detailed Map Of Medieval Trade Routes Pashley (talk) 02:25, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Clippers in the Suez Canal?
The article claims:
 * Still later the Suez and Panama canals opened up new routes; in particular the great sailing tea clippers ran from China to Europe via Suez from its opening in 1869 until the early 20th century

I have always heard that the Suez Canal was what killed the Far East trade for the clippers: The steamships would take the shortcut, while the sailing ships would continue to go via Good Hope. There is a famous story about a steamship on the Indian Ocean offering to take mail home to England from a clipper, the sailing ship captain proposing to do the reverse and after furious sailing around Africa reaching England first. The shipowner is first angry about breakage caused by not reducing sails, but thanks the skipper after having read the news coverage.

--LPfi (talk) 12:32, 25 January 2019 (UTC)

 * At last I rewrote the passage, hopefully in decent prose. I though I had made the correction long ago, but it seems I never clicked the save button. --LPfi (talk) 18:34, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Dating the road
Current text has "Chinese silk was reaching Rome before the end of the Roman Republic." I originally wrote that as "... before the time of Christ" and think it should be changed back. It seems to me much clearer; not all readers will know enough European history to understand the current version but most will understand mine.

Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 02:18, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

 * Maybe the current phrasing will stimulate them to learn. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:26, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

Travel in the modern day
As mentioned in above, the article doesn't have any information about the itinerary in the present day. To turn it from interesting reading to a useful travel guide, some info should be added about transport options, visa and safety issues and such. Maybe along the lines of On the trail of Kipling's Kim, Magellan-Elcano circumnavigation or Around the World in Eighty Days.

It'd be great if there would be someone who has visited the region, otherwise we can probably bring over a some stuff from destination articles. Ypsilon (talk) 17:32, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

 * At the top of Silk_Road there are links to itineraries. Pashley (talk) 01:24, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Silk Road


text:
Talk:Silk Road Tour

I don't think that it should ne merged with the main Silk Road itinerary article since it mainly deals with a small portion of the Silk Road within the Xinjiang Province. At the very least, it should be added to the itinerary section of the Xinjiang page and the main Silk Road article should reference this itinerary for the portion through Xinjiang.

This is, after all, an itinerary. Granted it talks about something already listed but limits the scope of the itinerary to one local area. Would be like giving the itinerary in nebraska of the oregon trail for people to follow even though there is an oregon trail main article listing the total trail in generic information. Of course, xinjiang article needs fleshing out and that will come in time, just like wikivoyage is being fleshed out, in pieces in time.

 * Even the original Silk Road article looks pretty skeletal, so I don't see why this couldn't be merged in there. If you do insist on a standalone itinerary, then you'll need a more descriptive name for this... (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:07, 10 February 2007 (EST)

UNESCO calls the Silk Road the "Great Silk Road" and considers all routes from the Mediteranian to Xian. How about changing the main article to "The Great Silk Road" and the lesser itinerary to something like Xinjiang Silk Road Tour or Caravan along the Three Routes of the Great Silk Road.

(WT-en) Celticevergreen 15:10, 11 February 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Silk Road Tour


text:
Talk:Silverjet

Silverjet

 * Delete Hold - Do we really need articles for each airline in operation? --(WT-en) NJR_ZA 02:25, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
 * Having looked at American Airlines, Northwest Airlines and looking at the discussion on Project:What is an article?, I am starting to think that this might be a valid travel topic after all. If we do decide to keep them it might be a good idea to link to them from articles that mention these airlines, eg American Airlines is mentioned 3 times in Fort Worth, but none of those are linked to the article. --(WT-en) NJR_ZA 14:27, 22 March 2007 (EDT)
 * Keep The same user has done articles for two other airlines, see Travel_topics, and I considered entering a VFD for those, since airline articles seem odd to me. But I decided not to bother; they do no harm I can see. For Silverjet, I didn't consider a VFD. They seem to offer an unusual service — business class only flights at good prices — which is worth mentioning. Even if the decision is to delete this, I think we need more info on such airlines, perhaps at First_and_business_class_travel. (WT-en) Pashley 03:17, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
 * Actually, I did the AA and NW articles (mainly because the Flyertalk people don't know how to edit their own wiki) and had nothing to do with the Silverjet article. - (WT-en) Sekicho 03:52, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
 * Oops. Since the three all appeared in the Travel Topics index at about the same time, I made a bogus assumption. (WT-en) Pashley 05:37, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

 * Delete - while it's not officially listed in the criteria for deletion, I don't think it's far off from other things that are, and don't think it really needs to be it's own article. They only fly between Newark and London for one, so can be covered easily within the "Get in" sections on the articles, and mentioned (as it already is now) on the 1st&business travel page mentioned above. The info that's on the page could easily be condensed into a paragraph, a lot of it is more Wikipedia oriented anyhow – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 04:03, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

 * Hold until the discussion I just started on Project:What is an article? reaches some sort of consensus. (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:24, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
 * Keep. I think some of the other articles-about-carriers demonstrate that there is some worth in attempting this experimentally.  So let's just let the experiment run. -- (WT-en) Colin 22:49, 19 March 2007 (EDT)
 * Keep - though am wondering whether a standard template should be devised for these kind of articles in order to keep them focused on travelers needs and prevent the info from becoming too encyclopedic. For discussion, see: Project:What is an article? . (WT-en) WindHorse 02:11, 4 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Delete Why should wikivoyage promote some businesses and not others? I don't see any purpose in having an article on SilverJet (which is not the only business class airline in the world) when a link to its booking page from any reference will suffice.--(WT-en) Wandering 16:32, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

Note: This article might get re-proposed for deletion depending on the outcome of the Project:What is an article? discussion. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 14:25, 7 April 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Silverjet


text:
Talk:Silver Spring

Crisfield
I'm correcting the spelling. Also, the article previous appeared to have the address for one location, and the phone number for another. See http://www.takoma.com/archives/copy/2003/03/crisfield.html for discussion of the fact that there are two locations. (Though Yahoo! Yellow Pages only gives one, and the web site only mentions one.) I changed the phone number; also added the web page. (WT-en) Jonboy 12:42, 30 Dec 2005 (EST)

title: Talk:Silver Spring


text:
Talk:Simi

I think this article should be redirected to Symi. --(WT-en) Vidimian 07:40, 18 November 2008 (EST)
 * I suspect you're right. I'll vfd it and add to the deletion discussion, suggesting it be redirected. (WT-en) Nrms 07:44, 18 November 2008 (EST)

 * There's no need to go through a vfd discussion, if you both agree just redirect it, if someone has issue with it then it can be discussed here, but nothing really needs deleting :) – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 12:13, 18 November 2008 (EST)

User:(WT-en) Sailsetter had assured me that 'Simi' is an alternative spelling for Symi, so I'm redirecting the page. --(WT-en) Vidimian 10:13, 21 November 2008 (EST)

vfd discussion

 * Redirect Seems to be an alternative spelling for Symi which already exists as a substantial article. (WT-en) Nrms 07:46, 18 November 2008 (EST)
 * Wikipedia says they're the same. Feel free to redirect it yourself.  Syme should also be a redirect.  (WT-en) LtPowers 09:21, 18 November 2008 (EST)
 * Outcome: Redirected to Symi. Also created Syme to redirect to Symi (WT-en) Nrms 05:35, 26 November 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Simi


text:
Talk:Similan Islands

Itinerary
Just moved this itinerary here as it cluttered the main page --(WT-en) globe-trotter 13:51, 15 February 2010 (EST)

Suggested Itinerary
Day tour & overnight stay +++ +++
 * Full day tour - Pickup by operator at hotel in Phuket or Khao Lak by minivan. Depart from Khao Lak Thap Lamu pier or Pakarang Beach by speedboat to Similan archipelago. Snorkelling in area of the beautiful fishes and coral on Island no. 4. - relax on the beach until buffet lunch is set up on the beach. Continuing to Island no. 7 and do snorkelling from the boat. Landing on Island no. 8 to do more swimming and climb the landmark of the islands "The Sail Rock". Last stop at the strait between Island no.8 and 9 called "Snapper Alley" for snorkelling. Returning to Khao Lak or Phuket at the end of the day.
 * Overnight stay - requires that you join in on a operators vessel or charter your own boat. Recommend 1 or 2 nights stay. There are no public transportation to Similan Marine National Park. Only Island no. 4 has bungalows / Island no. 4 and 8 has tent camps and restaurants. All accommodations is run by the Similan Marine National Park. Transfer to ongoing destinations can be arranged.

--(WT-en) globe-trotter 13:51, 15 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Similan Islands


text:
Talk:Simmons

Comments
From Google maps, Simmons appears to be a very small place with a few buildings on a road in the middle of Hiawatha National Forest. Without a place to Sleep, it doesn't meet the criteria for a destination article. Although it might be an attraction in another article, if there was a reason to give for it to be attractive. - (WT-en) Huttite 07:06, 24 November 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Simmons


text:
Talk:Sinai

The "or so they say" bit was in reference to the fact that there are about half a dozen mountains that claim to be the Mt. Sinai... (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:09, 7 June 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Sinai


text:
Talk:Sinaloa

I've removed the following comment, which Sinaloan locals will find offensive.

 * Appalling the number of Canadians who ignore the government's travel advisory and all the violence and figure if they go down in some sort of caravan through Sinaloa, etc., they will be safe. This is not just a lapse of judgment, it's totally selfish and irresponsible behaviour. It causes unnecessary anxiety on the part of friends and family members. And the outrageous part of it is that they think the Canadian government is going to use our tax money to somehow rescue them when things go bad. Shameful.

(WT-en) Stevey7788 01:54, 19 January 2012 (EST)

title: Talk:Sinaloa


text:
Talk:Singapore

Maps
What's the argument for the need for dynamic maps in the "Districts" section? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:32, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Pushing on the MRT
"During rush hours, get ready for a lot of pushing and shoving on the MRT (even just to alight) as everybody races for the empty seat. This is a common sight daily, despite signs asking people to be a little more courteous. Also try to gently push others when attempting to board trains in rush hours to minimise the risk of being left behind and waiting for the next MRT train. That said, the mad dash for seats that is common in China is considered to be uncivilised in Singapore."

The two highlighted excerpts are mutually contradictory. So which is correct? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:19, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

any thoughts on this? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:36, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

 * I don't know how you describe it, but while Singaporeans may not be as polite as say, the Japanese, it's still a lot better than in China. In China, people literally sprint for the seats while almost violently pushing people away. Look at this video for an example in the Shanghai Metro, but even what you see in this video is already relatively mild. In Singapore, rushing for seats in the way seen in the video is considered uncivilised. In fact, I don't feel that riding the MRT in Singapore particularly different from riding the Tube in London or the New York City Subway when it comes to civility of commuters. For that matter, I've actually seen more uncivilised behaviour (like people sitting with the soles of their feet on the seat with their shoes on) on the New York City Subway. The dog2 (talk) 14:17, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

 * So, in that case, would you say the first bolded bit either needs to be removed, or toned down? Because without actually knowing what the Chinese experience is like, it seems like the paragraphs message is 'there's a jostling rush for seats with pushing, but pushing and rushing would be uncivilised". If there's a way we can get the most accurate description without bringing in a comparison to an unrelated country, that would be best.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 14:43, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

 * I'll be happy to have both statements removed. In general, most Singaporeans will let you out of the train before boarding, just as most New Yorkers or Londoners would. But that said, it is possible that I could be biased as someone born and raised there, so it's probably best to get a second opinion from a European or American who has been to Singapore before making a final decision.

 * Could one of you please comment? The dog2 (talk) 15:22, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

 * From of a four day visit in 2013, I don't remember passengers being particularly pushy or rude in Singapore's MRT even during rush hour. Also the monorail station and the monorail to Sentosa were full of people like an outdoors rock festival but likewise I don't remember much pushing and shoving there. --Ypsilon (talk) 17:30, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

 * OK, it looks like I'm not the only one then. It may well be that my definition of civility and courtesy as a Singaporean is just different from an American's definition, but I have encountered what I consider to be rude or uncivilised behaviour more often on the New York City Subway and Chicago L than on the Singapore MRT. The dog2 (talk) 19:43, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Looks like nobody has replied for a while. Based on your profile, it looks like you have been to Singapore, so would you agree with me that the pushing and shoving in the MRT is in general no worse than what you will experience in the Tube in London? If so, what do you think of just removing the paragraph? The dog2 (talk) 16:03, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

 * I neither agree nor disagree, as I visited in 2002 when I was but a wee'un (about 8 or so) and really don't remember whether the MRT was even busy or not. I would prefer the situation be clarified, rather than removing the paragraph, but you're the Singapore expert around here. Whatever you think is best - other than leaving it as it is - I will go along with. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:36, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

To put thing in perspective, I will say that you will almost never see on the MRT some things that I have seen on the New York City Subway or Chicago L, such as people putting their feet on the seat, a single person occupying four seats, or people eating and making a mess with their food. And likewise, it's quite rare that you will encounter people talking loudly on their phone in an inconsiderate way, unlike what I encounter on a regular basis in New York City and Chicago. You will most certainly draw a lot of unwanted attention to yourself if you do any of these on the MRT, and there's a good chance someone will tell you off. Likewise, if you start wrestling and violently pushing people away while sprinting for the empty seat like what you see in the Shanghai Metro or Beijing Subway, it's quite likely that you will upset local people. In fact, this kind of behaviour by many mainland Chinese tourists is one of the reasons why many Singaporean Chinese bear some degree of resentment towards the mainland Chinese (tangential to this, many Taiwanese and Hongkongers resent the mainland Chinese tourists for the same reason). And personally, the first time I visited Shanghai and rode the Metro, experiencing how unruly (from a Singaporean perspective) the commuters were was a bit of a culture shock.

If you'd prefer, we can explicitly say that the situation is similar to most major Western cities. The dog2 (talk) 16:59, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

 * I vaguely recall you saying in a comment some time back that you've been to Singapore before. As a New Yorker, could you please provide a second opinion whether my comparative assessment of Singapore and New York City is accurate? The dog2 (talk) 17:25, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

 * The most explicit thing is just to describe how things are. Comparisons are not necessary, because this article is about Singapore, and not everyone who reads it will have been on the Shanghai Metro or the NYC Subway. We don't all have the same frame of reference, so let's just state what the situation on the MRT is and leave it at that.
 * And for what it's worth, the MRT made the rickety old Tube look like a pile of crap to me back then, and when the Jubilee line extension opened with its steel stations and glass platform-edge doors, it seemed to me inspired by Singapore. But the crowds I don't remember. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:36, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

 * I'm making comparisons here just to put things in perspective. I'm not suggesting we put all of it in the article. But I do think simply stating that there is a lot of pushing and shoving in the MRT can be misleading. The fact of the matter is, if you try to push and wrestle while sprinting for the seats like people do in Shanghai or Beijing, you are very likely to offend local people in Singapore, and people will think that you are uncivilised. At the very least, you will be drawing stares and whispers to yourself, and if you are unlucky, you might even get told off by a local. Therefore, I would say just don't do it. Likewise, not letting people off before you board will make you look rude and inconsiderate. So my advice if you don't want to stick out like a sore thumb is to behave just like how a normal local person would on the Tube or any other system in the Western world. The dog2 (talk) 23:01, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Since you pinged me: I spent like 2 days in Singapore in 1976 and don’t remember riding any trains there, so I have nothing to add to this discussion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:24, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

 * OK, the MRT wasn't built until 1987, so you wouldn't know then. The dog2 (talk) 02:37, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Anyway, to move forward on this, if nobody objects within 24 hours, I'll go ahead and delete the paragraph. The dog2 (talk) 16:55, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Deleted, but if anybody wants to protest the deletion, please feel free to ping me and reopen the debate. The dog2 (talk) 20:59, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Champion.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 22:17, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Time and date formatting again
it looks like you added the formatting box indicating that the 12-hour clock should be used in Singapore articles. Looking through the discussions here, I see one from 2013 that decided that the 24-hour clock should be used. I haven't been to Singapore, so on have direct knowledge. What should we do, given the 2013 discussion? Ground Zero (talk) 12:11, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

 * Local knowledge trumps the opinion of the 118 / Alice abuser (before your time, I believe) any day of the week and twice on Sundays. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:34, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 13:54, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

 * Generally, we only use the 24-hour clock in the military. Outside of that, the 12-hour clock is more common. The dog2 (talk) 15:02, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Good to have that confirmation. Thanks. Ground Zero (talk) 15:37, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Titles of Chinese and North Korean leaders
I have seen a bit of back and forth about which title to use for Kim Jong Un and Xi Jinping. Why not just use "leader"? Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:56, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Kim is called "leader" and Xi is called "president", per their most common titles in English. Similarly, we don't call Trump "the American leader" or Yew "the late Singaporean leader". The various edit summaries given as arguments by the IP user(s) were irrelevant to Wikivoyage and didn't address or acknowledge comments made by me and others. As an unrelated aside, I note with a sense of irony that of the four politicians discussed, only Yew ever demonstrated any notable leadership qualities. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:01, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

 * During the Hu Jintao era, Hu was the leader but not the president. Calling Xi the "President" of China is a bit misleading. After all, the President of Germany isn't the one who decides policy, either. Also, the U.S. is (not yet, anyway) not a single party state where party and state positions are intermixed like you can see in China, North Korea or Bavaria... Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:04, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) This is a constant source of disagreement both here and on Wikipedia. For China, the issue as I understand it is that legally "president" is a ceremonial title and Xi's political power derives from other positions that he holds concurrently. Ultimately it doesn't matter much which term we use, because anyone who cares about the difference already knows the details. —Granger (talk · contribs) 11:05, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I suppose from the traveller's perspective "leader" may be a bit clearer than "president". "President" tends to confuse travellers and their hosts in China, because its usual translation is 总统 zǒngtǒng, but in this case it means 主席 zhǔxí. —Granger (talk · contribs) 11:09, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * W:President of the People's Republic of China. Legal and ceremonial titles and powers aside, Xi is most commonly described in English as President. The travellers in question are visiting Singapore, not China.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:11, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Hu Jintao was the president of China. It was Deng Xiaoping who never formally assumed the position of president even though he was the de facto head of government. But anyway, Xi Jinping is indeed the president of China, and that's how he's most commonly described. Technicalities about which position actually holds power aren't important for a travel guide. And as ThunderingTyphoons! said, this article is about Singapore, not China, and we don't even cover details about Chinese politics in the China article. Therefore, let's just keep things simple and refer to Xi Jinping using the most common English description, and leave the details on where Xi derives his power from for political blogs or some other site more suited for that. Likewise, Ma Ying-jeou was technically the "President of the Republic of China", as is Tsai Ing-wen today. But we just use the term "Taiwanese president" because that is indeed the most common way they are described in English, regardless of what their official title. The dog2 (talk) 16:17, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Visas for tech workers
Singapore to Introduce New Visa to Draw Top Global Tech Talent Pashley (talk) 05:31, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Tourist flights?
Volocopter sells out its first tourist eVTOL flights in Singapore Pashley (talk) 07:46, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

Police
Here's some news coming out of Singapore:. I wonder if in the West, there are any laws that say that only female officers may restrain or arrest a woman. The dog2 (talk) 17:19, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

 * Definitely no such laws in any U.S. jurisdiction that I've ever heard of. Only same-sex officers are supposed to strip-search suspects or convicts in custody, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:35, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

English variety
Would we be using British English here, or Singaporean English? There's a couple of words in en-SG and en-MY that rather follow US usage like underpass, to rent, pickup truck etc. While it's really not a big difference, unlike what we did with Irish English where there's little difference, en-SG actually has some differences with language and terms used. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:19, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

 * Vocabulary often differs even within a country. English spelling tends to fall into two large buckets, US and UK, with minor differences in the Commonwealth countries. Specifying British English in the "Formatting and language conventions" formatbox dictates spelling alone, not choice of words. Nelson Ricardo 2500 (talk) 01:40, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

 * Perhaps look at Talk:New Zealand. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:42, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Grey markers on dynamic map
Is there a way to get rid of the grey markers on the dynamic map? I remember there was a discussion about those, but I can't remember when that was, but I propose to remove the MRT networks from the dynamic map – the grey markers are distracting and many districts are hidden from the dynamic map. -- SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:57, 24 March 2022 (UTC)

Colour codes for metro lines
Some articles, e.g. Shanghai, have colour codes for metro lines mentioned in text, e.g.
 * Line comes in from the north, crosses line  at Jing'an Temple, intersects line  at Changshu Road, ...

Would this be worth doing for Singapore, e.g. make mentions of NE line purple? The code an editor uses is fairly simple, e.g., but I do not know what would need to be done to make that work. Pashley (talk) 01:48, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

Using a Mastercard in MRT
I used my Mastercard debit card, issued by my Thai bank, for check-in and check-out with MRT rides. A few seconds after the check-out of my first ride, I got an SMS from my bank telling me that MRT had taken 2.74 baht (S$0.10) from my account. All later rides did not give these messages, and no money was taken from my account. At first I thought that after midnight the total of the day would be taken, but that did not happen. Then I thought when I have not used MRT for one or some days, the total of all rides will be taken, but also that did not happen. End of the month (Januari 2024) also did not function as time to take the money. Does anybody know when the money will be taken from my account? FredTC (talk) 12:11, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
 * On 7-2-2024 my bank account was charged 294,88 baht (S$11.13 at the exchange rate of an app I have) and the initial taken 2.74 baht were returned. I made a total of 8 local city rides and 1 long ride to the airport. On 7-2-2024 there were 7 days with no rides, since my departure on 30-1-2024.
 * Should this procedure be mentioned in the article? Maybe it is important to know that my bank account is a Thai bank account and Singapore and Thailand are both ASEAN countries.--FredTC (talk) 01:51, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * This behavior (small deposit at first, full payment later) happens everywhere in the world if you use a credit/debit card to pay for public transport. How long it takes depends on your bank. Jpatokal (talk) 10:55, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Update needed on transit card expiration
The article currently says "The cards are valid for five years so if you cards approaching their expiration date, you can exchange them for new cards at $3 (until 31st December 2023)." How should this be updated? What is the current policy on exchanging cards for new ones before they expire? —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:35, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Singapore


text:
Talk:Singapore/Central

This article has grown large enough that I think it's time to split it. I suggest Singapore/Orchard and Singapore/Riverside as the new chunks, so Orchard would be a strip running along Orchard through City Hall all the way to Suntec, and Riverside would cover both sides of the river from Mohammed Sultan through the Quays to the Merlion, incl. the Financial District (but not Singapore/Chinatown. The CBD page would turn into a "region" page that would link down to the new sections plus Chinatown.  Comments welcome. (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:32, 9 May 2005 (EDT)

title: Talk:Singapore/Central


text:
Talk:Singapore/Chinatown

I changed this from a star article to a guide; most of the listings aren't in MoS format. I've hacked at a couple; I'll try and work on them some more. --(WT-en) Evan 14:25, 1 Jan 2006 (EST)

The formats of the phone numbers are all over the place. Does it make sense to standardize on a hyphen in the middle of the last four digits like this: +65 6224-7081? -- (WT-en) Colin 20:23, 7 March 2006 (EST)

Fragrance
Fragrance now has a picture of its sign and a listing under Buy, this is quite enough for a single shop... (WT-en) Jpatokal 13:39, 26 September 2006 (EDT)

 * Bump. I really don't see what the blurry picture of balding uncles crowding in a shop adds to the guide. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:11, 27 September 2006 (EDT)

 * I agree that the other pictures are of a much higher quality. The guide definitely wouldn't suffer if the crowd picture was removed. -- (WT-en) Ryan 22:21, 27 September 2006 (EDT)

 * It has some copyright problems on Wikipedia, and I believe such images including fair use ones are banned on this project. The image is blur and of poor quality already and it has copyright infringement. I strongly suggest this poor quality picture should be deleted from the site. --(WT-en) Terence Ong 07:10, 11 October 2006 (EDT)

 * Can you give a pointer to the pic on Wikipedia? I couldn't find it there. (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:20, 11 October 2006 (EDT)

 * There it is. Here. --(WT-en) Terence Ong 10:27, 11 October 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Singapore/Chinatown


text:
Talk:Singapore/East Coast

BEach Hotel Singapore
Rates are quite a lot higher than stated in the article! According to the official website (http://www.beachhotel.com.sg) it's 140$-170$

title: Talk:Singapore/East Coast


text:
Talk:Singapore/Little India

Deliberate insult?
Unlike India, there are no cows, beggars, piles of garbage or people pissing on the street in Singapore's Little India, so yeah, it's sanitized. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:11, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I've got to agree with Jani here - Singapore's Little India is exactly what you would expect to find in India if the government suddenly implemented huge fines for littering, profanity, etc and then dumped a ton of money into sanitation. I don't know that calling it a "microcosm of India" would actually be accurate, since in my experience you can't find anything like it in India. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 23:49, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

Time formats
May I recommend using the same time formats for all the Singapore articles?

Our main Singapore city state article has Star status and uses the universally understood, unambiguous and usually shorter 24 hour time format (as does Singapore/East Coast). --118.93nzp (talk) 02:05, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

New page banner
Current page banner is simply beautiful but it doesn't identifies the district well so I'm came up with 2 recommendations. --Saqib (talk) 22:02, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

File:Little India, Singapore WV banner.jpg|1000px|frameless|center

 * I don't think a banner image does need to identify the district well or even at all.
 * It's simply eye candy that should not provide a cluttered or poorly contrasting background for the title which does identify (adequately and completely) the district that the rest of the article is about.
 * Both of your proposed banners above fail because:

 * 1) They are both grossly inferior in terms of visual appeal
 * 2) They are both grossly inferior because they are cluttered and squalid and provide a more muddled background both for the title and for the (incomplete) horizontal ToC.
 * View many of our banners on small screens such as notebooks have and you should be able to see instantly what I am banging on about... --118.93nzp (talk) 22:12, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I know my proposed banners above are not best in quality but still they give the impression of the district. This page states banners offer a visual introduction to an area and lately, we were discussing the same here. --Saqib (talk) 22:21, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the links, Saquib.
 * I would highlight what one of your links currently says: " (page banners) make the first impression of our guides more eye-catching (and) give our guides a fresh and more modern look... The page banner can be much more than just 'decoration' for an article. The best banners offer a visual introduction to an area and challenge people's preconceived ideas"
 * Your second banner proposal is the least worst of these inferior replacements - but I still prefer the existing banner as both more eye-catching and giving a fresh and visually attractive appearance. Sorry! --118.93nzp (talk) 22:35, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Singapore/Little India


text:
Talk:Singapore/Orchard

Star
If someone adds to See and Do this could easily be a "Star" article. - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 23:02, 17 May 2006 (EDT)

 * Unfortunately there is absolutely nothing to see or do on Orchard, it's just 2 miles of shopping malls. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:05, 17 May 2006 (EDT)
 * Ha! Is there any way to go ahead and give it a "star" status, if that's the case? At least the article is honest about it. (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 23:07, 17 May 2006 (EDT)

 * I don't think it makes much sense to 'star' individual districts; the master plan here is to raise all of Singapore to Star level. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:46, 17 May 2006 (EDT)

Cool Passion
I removed "Cool Passion" as we searched all over for it yesterday and found it has moved far away / closed. The reason was a rule change about that area of Takashimaya about serving food/drinks.203.116.41.67 20:05, 7 September 2008 (EDT)

 * D'oh! But thanks for removing it. (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:08, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Singapore/Orchard