text:
Talk:Kerala Backwaters

Would this be a better name? I've thought about Backwaters (Kerala), but in the sources I have "backwaters" isn't considered a proper name (= uncapitalized). (WT-en) DhDh 03:22, 21 Dec 2003 (PST)

Why is it called "Ashtamudi", which is Indic? Kerala is a Dravidian region. -(WT-en) phma 05:51, 21 Dec 2003 (PST)

 * I have no idea. These sites mention it as such, but don't explain much: and . (WT-en) DhDh 06:27, 21 Dec 2003 (PST)

Uh..
I'm a little lost as to why this is an article. --(WT-en) Evan 09:39, 21 Dec 2003 (PST)

 * Having done part of the backwaters, I do think it deserves its own article here. You can't link the Kerala backwaters to one particular city or town. They are an intricate network of rivers, canals and lakes that runs parallel to the coast and reaches quite far inland. It really makes one whole and I'd apply the region template here. Other opinions? (WT-en) DhDh 12:47, 21 Dec 2003 (PST)

OK. I guess I'm wondering if it's a region, or an itinerary, or a travel topic, or... uh. Once again challenging the geographical hierarchy and Evan's poor little brain. B-) --(WT-en) Evan 14:14, 21 Dec 2003 (PST)

 * Now that you mention it, it could very well be an itinerary. I'm not that sure about how to see it as a travel topic though. (WT-en) DhDh 22:32, 21 Dec 2003 (PST)

Wondering what to do about this
I think I've figured out what's to be done about this. Though this is a body of watet, this certainly meets the "Can you sleep there" test for an independent article about a destination. People can and routinely do spend entire days in Ketuvalloms. You need to get in, you need to get around, there are sights to be seen there are things to do and there is also stuff to buy. In fact, this tells me that there are 10 distinct backwater destinations to get into independently, and I can vouch for that. Practically every district of Kerala has a backwater and all of them are linked to one another, but most travellers will do only one at a time. (I've done Alapuzha and Cochin at two different times). So the thing to do is to have an article for each of them (using the small city template, but taking the "large attraction" exception) and make this into a region article. I'll do it next when I have the time. --(WT-en) Ravikiran 08:45, 29 Dec 2005 (EST)

Kettuvallam - meaning
Many sites translate Kettuvallam as "tied boat" (kettu = tie). This is not right. All traditional boats in Kerala are made by tying together wood planks with coir, not just Kettu-Vallams. Correct meaning of the word Kettu-vallam is "roofed" boat. (Kettu, as in NaluKettu (നാലു കെട്ട്), Kettidam (കെട്ടിടം)). Traditionally, only Kettu-vallams had roofs in Kerala. Other boats, though made using the same technique (wooden planks tied together) were usually open.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Kerala Backwaters


text:
Talk:Kerava

VFD discussion
Sleeper suburb of Helsinki, no attractions and no places to sleep. Not sure where, if anywhere, it can be redirected though... (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:50, 7 November 2006 (EST) Outcome: kept. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 09:43, 21 November 2006 (EST)
 * Unsure about this one but I'd feel inclined to keep it. Even by just letting travellers know that Kerava is just a sleeper suburb with no places to sleep, the article could be useful to someone - say, people who travel for family reasons or something and have to move around there or whatever. -- (WT-en) Ricardo (Rmx) 20:28, 8 November 2006 (EST)
 * Keep. Seems to me that if there's room for Congress, there's room for this one.  Check out Talk:Congress for an airing of the issues, including ways to handle the absence of places to sleep -- remember that the "can-you-sleep-there" criterion is more about the kind of place than about whether it has actual hotels.  In this particular case, the difficulty that Jani mentions, about finding a redirect, argues for keeping it.  (Just how big is this place?) -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 21:12, 8 November 2006 (EST)
 * I took a second look and would now myself vote to keep -- I'd always figured it was a district of something else, but no, it's actually incorporated as a city and has a population of 30,000. There are still almost no sights, but hey, at least they have the Garlic Festival(tm) every August, a festival so well known that I lived ~25 km away for ten years and never heard about it. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:56, 13 November 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Kerava


text:
Talk:Kerið

I'm don't know this place so I'm not sure if it should be it's own article or a Get out from the closest destination... Anyone know if there are places to sleep at the crater? Or is it a day trip thing? (WT-en) Maj 10:33, 9 January 2007 (EST)

 * There's nowhere to sleep anywhere nearby. It's part of the "Golden Circle" tour, which is a common day-trip out of Reykjavik, but actually in South Iceland.

title: Talk:Kerið


text:
Talk:Kerikeri

Great work. Someone should remove the stub message!! (The locals are too modest) (WT-en) Robin Patterson 21:32, 7 Sep 2004 (EDT)

 * It is really great. It does still need a couple of things: mainly the sleep listings should be broken out with addresses at least for each place.  Also a photo would be nice. -- (WT-en) Mark 06:07, 8 Sep 2004 (EDT)

 * Photo coming. Will attend to sleep bit soon. As I said, will be done dribs 'n drabs. Cheers (WT-en) Moriori 16:53, Sep 8, 2004 (EDT)

title: Talk:Kerikeri


text:
Talk:Kerkouane

KerkouAne is a wonderful place to visit. However there is no such place as 'Kerkoune'!!! (not in Tunisia at any rate). 88.111.216.15 16:46, 2 April 2007 (EDT)

Would this article make more sense as Kelibia- Get Out as Kerkoune is a fairly small site, but Kelibia is the nearest town with places to stay and eat(WT-en) Meltwaterfalls 06:01, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Kerkouane


text:
Talk:Kesariya

VFD Discussion
A stupa, and hence only an attraction, which has no place to stay. Usually visited by daytrip buses from Patna and perhaps other places? The article text was all copyvio from http://www.buddhist-temples.com/bihar/kesaria-stupa.html, which I removed.
 * Redirect to Patna? (Is there a closer destination for which we have an article?) - (WT-en) Texugo 20:31, 13 December 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Kesariya


text:
Talk:Kesennuma

Tsunami
The tsunami destroyed many things in Kesennuma, but this page didn't have much content until after the tsunami anyway, so everything listed here is believed to be open as usual. I dunno if there is some way of noting that on the page itself, so for now just noting it here. --(WT-en) Orcrist 04:21, 5 May 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Kesennuma


text:
Talk:Kettle Cove

Kettle Cove Maine?
can i add this or should it be redirected into the cape elizabeth travel guide? i'm not sure maybe someone can clear this up? --72.87.63.114 21:12, 18 November 2008 (EST)

thanks i found it out it got redirected... --72.87.63.114 21:19, 18 November 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Kettle Cove


text:
Talk:Key West

Prices
A description of Eating prices would be nice. I would add it, but I'm not sure what is considered a budget and what is considered Splurge. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 199.72.72.165 (talk • contribs) 13:35, 16 March 2006 (EDT)
 * This has been added in the intervening time (thanks, contributors!). However, it's now the Sleep section that's starting to get out of control; it's long enough that dividing it by price sections would help, if anyone's got the appropriate information.  (WT-en) Dguillaime 02:45, 30 November 2008 (EST)

Grave Stone
While I agree that, that photo is not the best in the world, it does reflect the common tale, told thoughout the cemetary. If you have a dislike for it, please discuss it here and refrain from deleting any photo's on Wikivoyage, without discussion (WT-en) 2old 11:59, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

Need more Key West information on major calender events. —The preceding comment was added by 108.124.118.255 (talk • contribs)
 * So add some. =)  (WT-en) LtPowers 18:23, 13 May 2011 (EDT)

By Car
So, I'm pretty sure that the US Border Patrol's checkpoint has been gone since shoftly after the island's secession, but I am not totally sure on this one, since I have never actually driven into Key West, just arrived by cruise ship. Some quick GoogleFu and reading shows no indicator that the check point still exists. This from the Conch Republic's website:

Thus, the plucky little Conch Republic was born. Amazingly, the United States government, although they immediately removed the roadblock, never bothered to react to the secession. They never sent even the littlest letter informing the Mayor that they objected to the secession, or "...while this was quite funny, you must realize you cannot be a real country..." Nothing, zip, zero, nothing by way of response...

—The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Hawkeyefla (talk • contribs)

 * Secession? What secession?  (WT-en) LtPowers 18:35, 18 April 2012 (EDT)
 * The often lauded event in the early 80s that helped create what most people consider to be The Conch Republic. But that aside, still not really finding anything to make me think the checkpoint is there these days. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Hawkeyefla (talk • contribs)

 * If there is doubt about the accuracy of the checkpoint info please just remove it, and if the anonymous editor who added that info disagrees with the removal then they can discuss and it can always be restored later. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 21:08, 19 April 2012 (EDT)
 * Fair enough (WT-en) Hawkeyefla 23:44, 19 April 2012 (EDT)

Replacement of static map with dynamic map
I'm not so sure about this one. The static map, which you can see on this previous version of the page, was not the best imaginable map, but it did show more street names than the dynamic map does. On the other hand, the location of the airport was not obvious in the static map. Can the dynamic map be improved, so that it's more clearly better than the static map? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:29, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Alternatively, if anyone would like to reinstate the static map and edit it, that would be just as good. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:29, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Looks like the server hosting the dynamic maps is currently down, so that's one strike against right there. The old map was pretty basic, though, and not Wikivoyage-style, so I don't know which one is better.  Powers (talk) 18:46, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
 * No, the dynamic map can not be improved. Please do not click the [+] button to view more street names. Better revert to the static map, a cartographic masterpiece. -- Joachim Mey2008 (talk) 04:52, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * No need for sarcasm. My understanding is that we are still trying to make this guide easy to use for people who want to print the articles without having to click the map. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:08, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I thought it was a joke. This static map has a maximum resolution of 575 × 425 pixels. The printing is very difficult to read. -- Joachim Mey2008 (talk) 05:39, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw that when I tried to enlarge it. But in all seriousness, is there a way to have additional street names show at the default resolution of the dynamic map? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:45, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Details in maps adjusted according to scale (technical term: generalization). Also our dynamic maps. More details (eg street names) may be shown only in a higher zoom level. - If you increase the zoom level, you have to enlarge the frame. Or just show an interesting part of the area (change the coordinates of the center). -- Joachim Mey2008 (talk) 06:43, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Example: (a mix of the two options). -- Joachim Mey2008 (talk) 06:54, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Key West


text:
Talk:Kgalagadi Transfontier Park

Kgalagadi Transfontier Park
Spelling mistake in the name. Should be transfrontier, not transfontier I have created Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park and copied the little available information over to the new page. Have also changed all existing article links to the new page. (WT-en) NJR_ZA 14:36, 10 January 2007 (EST)
 * Redirect to the article with the correct spelling. That's the norm for handling articles that are legitimate but have a spelling error in the name, the reasoning being that if somebody goofed when creating the article, someone else might goof when looking for it.  I'm taking the liberty of the redirect, although the VFD discussion should remain open. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 14:42, 10 January 2007 (EST)
 * Redirect -- (WT-en) Jonboy 13:28, 25 January 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Kgalagadi Transfontier Park


text:
Talk:Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park

Copyright violation
Seems that most of the content was taken directly from SANParks. Their Terms of use clearly state that prior permission is required before any portion from their website is duplicated. If there are no objection, I will remove the offending material tomorrow. (WT-en) NJR_ZA 14:09, 15 January 2007 (EST)

 * I have removed the offending material and replaced with a quick summary. (WT-en) NJR_ZA 03:06, 16 January 2007 (EST)

Star status?
I don't think this is star ready yet. Here are my primary reasons:
 * There are no contact details in the sleep and do section
 * Get out should link to Wikivoyage articles on those other Parks and reserves. (and those articles should be on at least guide status for this one to become a star)
 * References to Upington should be links and Upington should be at least at guide status. Kakamas and Keimoes will need to be created as well
 * As the primary entrance way to Kgalagadi from Botswana, Tsabong should exist, be at guide status and all references to it should be links.
 * Do sections should have contact and price details. (Who to contact for night drive, what will it cost etc)
 * Some more hiking/day walks information is required.
 * Information is not quite complete yet. Here is some I know off, but I have not been in that area for a while and I'll sure there will be more.
 * Kgalagadi is close to the Riemvasmaak hot springs, but there is no mention of it in get out.
 * Following this article I'll arrive at the park without a bottle of wine from the Orange River cellars.
 * How does one get to the park from Namibia? (also via Upington?)

In addition to that I would also recommend that we move the wildlife detail from the park article and place it into African flora and fauna. Many areas/parks will have the same animals and plants and it is rather silly to duplicate it all over. Keep one or two photos as well as a short summary in this article, but move the bulk to African flora and fauna and link to it.

I think that rather than trying to get individual Southern African articles to star status we should rather concentrate on getting as many as possible to usable or guide status.

--(WT-en) NJR_ZA 08:39, 4 March 2007 (EST)

 * The linked articles don't necessarily have to be "guide" status; that requirement is only for places that are part of the subject of the article (e.g. regions in a country, districts in a city). It's definitely a good idea to develop the "gateway" cities for a national park, especially if they're an important part of a visit to that park, but the status of a park article is determined by how well it covers the park itself.  I agree with your other comments. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 10:10, 4 March 2007 (EST)

Gate hours
Does the gate hours apply to all gates, both on the South African and Botswana side? --(WT-en) NJR_ZA 09:52, 4 March 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park


text:
Talk:Khachmaz

Sourcing
The first post on the Khachmas page is from information gathered by Xaçmaz (Khachmas) English Conversation Club. The travel information is up to date as of July 2007. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Rustinjohnson (talk • contribs)

 * This definitely looks as though it was copied verbatim from its source. This is ok provided that the source information is explicitly public domain or licensed under the Creative Commons. If not, it is unfortunately a copyright violation and needs to be removed. In the case that it is a copyright violation, however, it would be ok to use this as a research tool for mining information—but it definitely would not be permissible as a word-for-word copy. My apologies in advance if these are your own words. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 02:55, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

Peter, thanks for your interest. I have the same concerns on some of the information and should have the information sources in the near future. I have set up a meeting to speak with the President of the Khachmas English Conversation Club tomorrow. For the historical information, the material is common knowledge given from a local history teacher. Having several discussions with him on historical issues, I'm comfortable with the fact that the historical knowledge is his own. Thanks for your patience. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Rustinjohnson (talk • contribs)

 * Sounds good. Please keep in mind when discussing this with the President that the fundamental licensing requirement for all Wikivoyage content is that it may be reused by anyone for any purpose. Whether attribution is required is up to the author. If the Club gives its assent, I will be glad to help reformat this content to match our Project:Manual of style. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 14:32, 18 July 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Khachmaz


text:
Talk:Khajuraho

Khajuraho is one of the places where lot of foreigners come. There is not much information that a traveller can use.(WT-en) Randhir R 00:30, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

I think now Khajuraho can be marked as usable article. It now contains all the relevant information that qualifies it. (WT-en) Randhir R 01:56, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

Why do ya have to remove the restaurants description, will it not help people,, It's so hard to find information about Khajuraho. I've been spending a lot of my time, and you revert the contribution. (WT-en) Randhir R 12:29, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Huh? I don't see anybody removing anything in the history. (WT-en) Jpatokal 13:34, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Khajuraho


text:
Talk:Tibetan Empire

Is this article redundant?
It seems not to fit in with the rest of the geographical hierarchy for the region. ~ 203.144.143.4 08:19, 24 January 2008 (EST)

 * I dug deeper and became 100% convinced that it's 100% redundant, hence the de-linking and conversion to a disambiguation page. ~ 58.8.14.82 09:19, 24 January 2008 (EST)

Move
I moved the Kham article to this title and modified the text so we could have redirects for all three old provinces pointing here. Pashley (talk) 03:59, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

 * Tibetan Empire is currently a redirect to Old Tibetan provinces. I'm inclined to think that should be reversed. Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 00:32, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

 * That seems logical. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:28, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Done. Pashley (talk) 08:41, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Region or topic?
User:Soumya-8974 just changed this from Extraregion to travel topic. I want to change it back. Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 06:27, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Well, the Tibetan Empire no longer exists, so that's a strike against it being an extraregion, isn't it? What's the advantage of treating it as an extraregion? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:21, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Geographically, it is a region. It is certainly not a travel topic as that term was originally used, for information relevant to multiple destinations e.g. altitude sickness or bargaining.
 * On the other hand, the Roman, Persian, Chinese, Mongol & Mughal empires all have travel topic articles. Pashley (talk) 16:34, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

 * If we keep it as a travel topic, the examples at Extraregion have to be tweaked to delete this one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:53, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

 * There's no reason for this to be an extraregion, because the Tibetan Empire doesn't exist anymore. It should be an historical travel topic, like Roman Empire, Imperial China et al.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
 * But as there is no travel information here -- sites to visit, museums, etc. -- it isn't a travel topic either. It's just an unreferenced encyclopedia article. The reader would be better off with Tibetan Empire. Most other travel topic articles have information on specific sites and museums. Ground Zero (talk) 02:36, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I have restored it to be an extraregion because the change to travel topic was made without discussion by an editor who was prone to making unilateral changes. I understand ThunderingTyphoons!'s point, but it isn't a travel topic either. And I doubt that we will find a "museum of the Tibetan Empire" in China. Ground Zero (talk) 03:07, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I think it's very problematic to have a former empire as an extra-region. If we're treating it as a current extra-region, shouldn't it be renamed something like "Traditional Tibetan region" or something? It's not an empire today. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:49, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, there is some travel content:

 * "Some places that are major tourist destinations today, such as Dali and Lijiang, were regional capitals in that era."

 * "Our article on the Yunnan tourist trail covers travel through parts of Kham. The famed scenic destination of Jiuzhaigou in Sichuan was formerly part of Kham, and is named after nine traditional Tibetan villages in the area, seven of which are still inhabited by ethnic Tibetans, and are excellent places to marvel in traditional Tibetan architecture."

 * OK, it's a bit thin, but it's not nothing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:51, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Turn it into a travel topic, and it might develop into one. It'll never develop into the role of extraregion, because it's not a region. Or if travel content (current and potential) is so limited, perhaps the information can just be merged somewhere? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:02, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I agree that it is a travel topic as all historical empires and regions are. It might have a lot of scope of improvement to become a high-quality travel topic but it's still a travel topic. Gizza ( roam ) 08:30, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * While I'm usually annoyed and find Soumya's contributions as controversial, I'm going to have to say topic this time. it's not an empire anymore. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:35, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

This additional discussion changes the consensus toward topic, rather than extraregion. But I think that the travel content is so thin that the reader is better off with the Wikipedia article on the Tibetan Empire. The article has been around since 2014, so it has had lots of time for points on interest to be added, but I don't know if there are any. I doubt that the People's Republic is going to be interested in developing or promoting sites related to this history. On that basis, deletion seems to be the logical way to go. Can anyone prove me wrong about points of interest? Ground Zero (talk) 11:39, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I think we could keep this as a topic, and someone can go ahead and expand it if they know more about the history. It's true that this part of history is censored in China, but many of the sites are still there, which you can visit on a tour to Tibet. The Potala Palace is now a tourist attraction you can visit for instance, and you can also visit the monasteries that were the traditional seats of the Panchen Lama and the Kamarpa. The fact that the Chinese government censors this part of history does not mean that we should. And outside Tibet proper, you can travel freely around the ethnically Tibetan areas of the neighbouring provinces; Jiuzhaigou in Sichuan is an example of an ethnically Tibetan area, and besides the scenery, one of the main attractions is the Tibetan villages where you can still see traditional Tibetan architecture. And unlike Tibet proper, you do not need any special permits to visit the Tibetan villages in Sichuan. The dog2 (talk) 16:20, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Be that as it may, this still isn't a travel article, and doesn't belong in a travel guide. If someone who knows something about sites associated with the Tibetan Empire is willing to add them to the article, it could be one. So far, no-one has stepped forward to do so. Ground Zero (talk) 16:35, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The Potala Palace is already featured in the Tibet and Lhasa articles (it is also in the page banners of both), so anyone researching a trip to Tibet will find that information quickly. If that is the only POI with a specific connection to the Tibetan Empire, readers would be better off looking in those articles than here. Ground Zero (talk) 21:01, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * This article also helps to given important context. After all, the territory of the Tibetan Empire was larger than what is currently Tibet, which is why Qinghai, Gansu, Yunnan and Sichuan have areas that are predominantly Tibetan — because those areas were part of the Tibetan Empire. Believe it or not, the Dalai Lama was actually not born in what is today Tibet, but in Taktser, which in in modern-day Qinghai, and not too far from Xining (making it quite a distance from Tibet proper). And while the area was part of the Tibetan Empire prior to the Qing conquest, it was not actually under the control of the Tibetan government from 1912-1950. The dog2 (talk) 21:26, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * It's all context and no travel information. It's uncited, and not crowd-sourced. The reader is better served by the Wikipedia article. Wikivoyage is not a history blog. It's a travel guide. Ground Zero (talk) 21:31, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I will say this is still useful for people who are looking to experience Tibetan culture. Not everyone wants to go through the hassle of getting the special permit to go to Tibet, and some people might want to travel around freely without Chinese government minders. And one of the easiest ways to do it is to look for places that are not part of Tibet today but were historically part of the Tibetan Empire, because those are areas where you are still likely to find ethnic Tibetan communities. The dog2 (talk) 21:44, 8 July 2021 (UTC)
 * If no one’s willing to give it more travel content, I don’t think it’s serving enough purpose to merit being part of a travel guide. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 22:35, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I did some moderately extensive editing, emphasizing the notion of permit-free travel by moving it to the introduction, & creating Tibetan_Empire. Pashley (talk) 00:10, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Great job. I also added some information about the Qiang ethnic group, since they are related to the Tibetans, but still culturally distinct, and inhabit regions that were part of the Tibetan Empire. The dog2 (talk) 04:16, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Since some of it is now outside PRC, then shouldn't the be part of East asia in general? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:18, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Bhutan, Nepal and India are in South Asia, so perhaps Asia in general will make a better classification. The dog2 (talk) 04:30, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

 * This is shaping up nicely. I think it's still better to breadcrumb this to East Asia, since the territory of the former empire is almost all in China and Asia is so vast that it's really not helpful to breadcrumb it to the whole continent. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:51, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Yes, this is starting to look good. The argument on whether to keep the article is unresolved (though for the record, it looks worth keeping to me), but it seems that there's consensus that this should be a travel topic rather than a extraregion. If I'm wrong, now's the time to say.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:18, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I think we have a consensus for travel topic. Should I change it, or does anyone oppose. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:26, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Sorry if it wasn't clear, but "should I change it, or does anyone oppose?" was the basic thrust of my comment above. In order to know whether anyone opposes, we need to wait until either the majority of participants respond or a good chunk of time (say 24 hours) has passed without any opposition.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:37, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

 * My position is that, as currently phrased, it has to be a travel topic, because this empire no longer exists. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:35, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

 * With the new travel content added, I now support keeping this article as a travel topic. The information, though limited, is certainly travel related. It’s now at the point, at least in the destinations section, where more information will benefit the article, which is a sign that it is moving in the right direction. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 10:43, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
 * If it is to be kept, it should be as a travel topic. Pashley has improved it it quite a bit. I think it is only marginally a travel article now, but I won't nominate it for deletion. I will propose some changes to how we describe travel topics to clarify that articles should have actual travel-related content. I'm not sure where this should be addressed -- maybe Other ways of seeing travel. Ground Zero (talk) 11:27, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

I wonder if our article status pages (such as Travel topic status) should have more advice. For example, the row for “usable” has just a one liner description. This doesn’t give contributors much guidance for how to write a usable travel topic. Maybe we should add some information about the importance of including specific relevant destinations, the types of relevant activities (tours, restaurants, golf courses etc.) for the topic, safety, and traditions/cultures where applicable. Too often (I’m guilty of this) our new travel topics have a detailed “understand” section followed by two or three cities under “destinations” to make it marginally travel related and, according to the one liner, barely usable. I think we can improve upon this by providing contributors with more guidance. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 12:23, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm also guilty of this, but of the opposite. If you look at my most recent TT: Ned Kelly tourism. I barely even explained who he is, but was too focused on the listings, which barely passed. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 12:29, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I think that’s better, though. People who don’t know about Ned Kelly can easily go to WP to read about him, but for destinations, at least we have a good list with travel relevant information. I wonder if German East Africa has a lot of parallels to this article and possibly its discussion. We came to a different consensus there a few years ago but the perspective here seems to have changed somewhat since then. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 12:31, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I would agree that this should be a travel topic. After all, the Tibetan Empire is a historical entity that does not exist anymore. The dog2 (talk) 15:20, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Like many contributors have mentioned here, we treat other historical empires as travel topics, so the Tibetan Empire should probably also be a travel topic. --Ypsilon (talk) 16:47, 9 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I have moved it to a travel topic accordingly, as there appears to be overwhelming support for moving this to a travel topic. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 17:16, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Merge & redirect?
Should this be merged into the Tibet article & redirected? Much of it might fit in a section there titled "Tibetan Empire" or "Tibetan culture outside Tibet". The rest could just be discarded.

There are arguments against this; these topics might not fit well there & they'd tend to make the article too long. However, it might be worth considering. Pashley (talk) 08:47, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
 * This has only 251 pageviews in the last 30 days, and most are by us Wikivoyage editors, and not readers. Tibet seems to have 301 but was less edited by us, meaning it has more readers. (pgview numbers as at 18:51 10 Jul AEST) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:51, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I don't know. It's been improved a lot lately. How much overlap is there with Tibet? It seems to me to go beyond that. It could be retitled "Tibetan culture" or something, but I think the title is OK. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:02, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

 * As of now, the focus is on covering Tibetan cultural destinations outside modern-day Tibet proper, so I'd be fine in changing the title to Tibetan culture. The dog2 (talk) 17:56, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I think this is a historical topic focusing on Tibet's history. As I see it an article about Tibetan culture would need to focus on present-day culture of Tibet, which would be better covered in Tibet or even Tibet. I'm not sure it would be beneficial to move this article to the region article at this point, as it is arguably "bloated" per above. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 18:18, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

 * To clarify, I suggested this might be worth discussing, but personally I'm not in favour. Pashley (talk) 03:18, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Current use
One reason given for wanting to change this is that the term "Tibetan Empire" is no longer in use. I do not think that should matter, but others clearly do.

The names of the three provinces, all of which redirect here, are still used. Both Amdo & Kham have links from other articles.
 * Kham is definitely in use; I've met Tibetans who described themselves in English as Khampas.
 * Amdo is still the Tibetan name for the region that is Qinghai (& part of Gansu) in Chinese. Both terms are used in English. We have an Amdo Tibetan phrasebook.
 * I do not know if U-Tsang is still used in Tibetan, & I've never heard it used in English, but the Chinese name Xizang is derived from it.

Years ago, someone created an article for Kham. I moved it to "Old Tibetan provinces", expanded it some & made all three provinces plus Tibetan Empire redirect to it. Later we moved it to the better title Tibetan Empire. Pashley (talk) 10:03, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I don't think Ü-Tsang is in common use, but it is used in academic contexts to describe the area of the old province. For instance, when Tibet was de facto independent from 1912-1950, the Tibetan government claimed all 3 provinces, but in practice only controlled Ü-Tsang, while Kham and Amdo were controlled by various Chinese warlords. From what I heard, one of the reasons why the Tibetan government in those days selected the current Dalai Lama from Amdo is because they wanted to bolster their claim to the former province. The dog2 (talk) 21:18, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

New York City
I just wonder if you know enough to write about this. As you know, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is one of the most hawkish members of Congress when it comes to China policy, up there with Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz and Tom Cotton, and she is the most vocal supporter of Tibetan independence in Congress. My understanding is that this is in part because her district is home to the largest Tibetan community in the United States, so I presume that there would be places in her district you can go to learn to speak Tibetan, eat Tibetan food and experience other aspects of Tibetan culture. The dog2 (talk) 18:22, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't know that about AOC. There is a small Tibetan community in Jackson Heights with a few restaurants and some Tibetans in other parts of New York. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:31, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * If you know enough, perhaps you can write about the parts of New York City where you can go for such stuff. I know New York City was not part of the Tibetan Empire, but still, the large Tibetan population would be because many fled Chinese rule after the uprising. The dog2 (talk) 20:47, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think there's a large Tibetan population here. Have you seen figures? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:07, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't know the figures, but when I went on a ski trip to Hunter Mountain out of New York City, I remember the tour group had a number of Tibetans, identifiable because they were wearing clothing with the Tibetan independence flag on it. You can look on the internet and find videos of AOC giving impassioned speeches on the floor the House calling for more support for the Tibetan independence movement, and she was in fact the one who pushed for a clause boosting funding for the Tibet independence movement as part of the COVID relief bill. I was just curious as to why she has been so passionately anti-China (given that she and Marco Rubio worked very closely together to pass bills supporting the Hong Kong independence movement during the 2019-20 protests, when they are at odds over virtually everything else) and pro-Tibet independence, and on looking things up, it seems that her district has the largest Tibetan population among all the Congressional districts in the United States. The dog2 (talk) 21:21, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * OK, and what is that population? Btw, being in favor of Tibetan independence doesn't register as "hawkish" to me; hawks support military action. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:41, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * A quick search seems to indicate 5,000-6,000 Tibetans in New York City as of 2008, out of a total population of 9,000 Tibetans in the United States. So that would make New York City home to by far the largest Tibetan community in the United States, and in fact the largest in the Western world.

 * And as for AOC, besides Tibetan independence, as I mentioned, she also supports Hong Kong independence and worked very closely with Marco Rubio on that issue. And while I don't think she's ever called for the U.S. to invade China (heck, even Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz wouldn't dare to call for that), she does generally favour a more confrontational approach in dealing with China. The dog2 (talk) 23:01, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

 * 6,000 Tibetans out of over 8,000,000 New Yorkers is a tiny percentage. Maybe if I knew more about where people were most likely to find them. But this article's title is not about the Tibetan diaspora. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:25, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Banner
I was thinking about a banner for this. What about ? It might need to be adjusted to the right dimensions, but I think it is good since it showcases traditional Tibetan architecture outside Tibet proper. The dog2 (talk) 16:53, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

 * It's a beautiful picture, but what does it have to do with an empire? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:00, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

 * The article is mainly focused on covering areas outside Tibet proper where you can go to experience Tibetan culture, and Jiuzhaigou is one of those areas. And the reason why it's predominantly ethnic Tibetan today is because it was part of the Tibetan Empire before the Qing Dynasty conquered it. The dog2 (talk) 17:04, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

 * If that's its main focus, isn't it mistitled? Shouldn't it in that case be titled "Tibetan culture outside Tibet"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:10, 24 December 2021 (UTC)
 * That works well. See File:Tibetan empire banner.jpg. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 20:18, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tibetan Empire


text:
Talk:Khancoban

50,000 articles
Just a fun little Wikivoyage fact: this appears to have been the 50,000th article created sitewide on Wikivoyage! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 16:46, 6 July 2012 (EDT)

Redirect?
I do not see why this has been redirected and am strongly inclined to revert.

Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 13:45, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

 * First of all, I redirected this because of the benefit of the traveller. There's absolutely no PoIs here, and the only reason why people even bother to stop at this town is to fill up alpine diesel for their journey up the Snowys. The cafés here are only rarely visited and only when people want a coffee or a hot chocie when they're filling up.

 * I've been to this town numerous times before, and all were because the ACT closed their borders. That is basically the only reason why people would even come even passing by this town in the first place.

 * This town doesn't pass wiaa and therefore does not merit its own article. However, I have been planning to create an itinerary, covering the entire Alpine Way, and I will include that. But until then, for the best of the traveller, it aye better redirected to the Snowy Mountains article.

 * If you're also wondering where I got the 78km info from see this image, and it's still up as of June this year.

 * Maybe could comment?

 * SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:37, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Also, I have just added all the vital information onto Snowy Mountains, meaning no info is lost by this redirect. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 04:44, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I would think that the last point of civilisation would merit being covered. I think having it in the itinerary is a good solution, but until then ... I don't see the visitor centre mentioned in Snowy Mountains, nor the café. I suppose some would still take that last coffee (and want to check that the place isn't closed when you'll arrive, and that you indeed get that diesel there).

 * I don't know the facts on the ground, but I am confused. Why a visitor centre nobody visits? I can see the place as better covered in the itinerary or perhaps even the region article, but as it now stands, travellers going that way were better served by the article (with a link to the region) than by the redirect. I wouldn't be disappointed if clicking the outline: not much to see, but contact information to somebody who might be able to give advice – or, ehrm, there was no phone numbers, they should have been added (the visitor centre web page has theirs).

 * –LPfi (talk) 09:18, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I tend to feel like there was enough there for a short but still not useless article, and that this town is remote enough for every other place for it to be worth covering. Compare it to remote places in the Arctic like Circle or Anaktuvuk Pass, Alaska. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:52, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I support a redirect if this fails the sleep test. However, relevant travel information needs to be moved to somewhere else, not discarded or hidden from view. Including it in a itinerary or region article is a good idea and if this is done, I can support a redirect. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 16:49, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
 * SHB2000 did a good bit of work expanding it, then suppressed/redirected it, which seems odd. The rationale he has offered doesn't stack up.

 * The Murray 1 and Murray 2 power stations (several km apart) are (or have been) points of interest. I'm not sure of the current status - the power station visitor centres may be closed because of maintenance work. However, I believe there is at least an information and viewing point for Murray 1 on the main road.

 * When I went to Khancoban 15 years ago I had lunch there, so the assertion that people only have "a coffee or a hot chocie" is/was not true. The assertion that people would only go there because the ACT closed their borders is ludicrous - I went there as part of a trip through the Snowy Mountains and Ned Kelly country.

 * As for the What is an article? test - have all these places in the area closed permanently? Alpine Inn, Cossettini Retreat B&B, Eurabbie B&B, Khancoban Holiday House, Khancoban Lakeside Caravan Park, Khancoban Rose Holiday Units, Lantana House, Queen's Cottage, Waratha House. Nurg (talk) 01:00, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

 * As of June 24, yes, both are currently under maintenance, because of some works as part of the Snowy Mountains electric scheme. Last time I went there, no restaurants, only cafés and hotels and motels. No See and Do. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:13, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Cafés + hotels and motels = "hospitality venues", in the language of What is an article?
 * Looking at a map, it appears that something called "Kosciuszko Alpine Way drive" is labeled as a tourist attraction to the east, and "Pondage Spillway" immediately to the west. Part of the Bicentennial National Trail is also marked on the map.  Those probably constitute things to "see", although obviously this isn't anything like a large city.
 * I think, therefore, that this place does qualify for an article. The remaining question is whether that's a separate article is the best way to handle it.  I have no strong views on that question.  Sometimes it's good to have a separate article; sometimes it makes more sense to merge it to a larger area.  I might lean very slightly towards merging to the larger area, but either outcome seems reasonable to me.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:45, 27 July 2021 (UTC)
 * And for the Murray River power station lookouts, they are some km north from Khancoban, as I said, better off in Alpine Way. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:15, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I'd still be happier with Khancoban as an article, but I can accept merge and redirect. The merging still needs to be done, though. The visitor centre & perhaps the cafe should be listed in the redirect target article. Pashley (talk) 15:24, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Merge and redirect is the way to go. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 15:33, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Khancoban


text:
Talk:Khanom

TAT Listings
Moved some TAT listings to Talk:Khanom/Listings for future reference. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 20:48, 5 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Khanom


text:
Talk:Khanom/Listings

Amphoe Khanom
Hat Khanom - Mu Ko Thale Tai National Park (อุทยานแห่งชาติหาดขนอม-หมู่เกาะทะเลใต้) has its headquarters on the Khanom-Rong Faifa Road. It is 100 metres from the road to the left. The park incorporates islands, mountains and coastal areas of Amphoe Khanom and some parts of Surat Thani. This park has many islands, such as Ko Noi, Ko Wang Nai, Ko Wang Nok, Ko Taen, Ko Rap, Ko Tha Rai, and Ko Phi. In addition, there are some bays like Ao Khanom, Ao Thong Tha Kham, Ao Thong Lang, Ao Thong Yi, and Ao Thong Yang. Mountains dot the park, like Khao Phlai Dam, Khao Phi Ngai, Khao Kho, Khao Phlao, and Khao Dat Fa. Ao Khanom (อ่าวขนอม) is the largest bay in Khanom. It is 1.5 kilometres from the district office and can be reached by taking Highway No. 4014 which separates from Highway No. 401, drive for 17 kilometres, then 1 kilometre past Khanom Public Health Area Market, then turn right and drive along Khanom beach. Khanom beach is a long beach that connects to other beaches, as follows: Hat Nai Phlao(หาดในเพลา) is Khanom’s largest beach and the most popular tourist attraction. The beach curves along a mountain range. The overall scenery is one that features perfect nature, including a clean, white beach conducive to a day in the sun. Accommodation and restaurant facilities are available. Hat Na Dan (หาดหน้าด่าน) is a long, palm-fringed white beach. From this quiet beach, one can see the beautiful aquamarine water of the Gulf of Thailand. Hat Nai Praet (หาดในแปร็ด) is a beautiful, long curved beach. This beach is between Hat Na Dan and Hat Nai Phlao and is rocky in some areas. This popular beach’s natural ambience has been impressing visitors for years. Ao Thong Yi (อ่าวท้องหยี) is a beach that is very suitable for camping because of its complete natural surroundings. Ao Thong Yi is encompassed by Khao Phlao and Khao Klang, making it peaceful and removed from the outside world. Accommodation can be obtained by contacting the owner of the property. To get there; take a laterite road from Hat Nai Phlao near Khanap Nam Resort. The distance to there is 2.5km. Tham Khao Wang Thong (ถ้ำเขาวังทอง) is 77km from the city and is one of the most awesome caves of the province. The cave has many large and small chambers, each with stalagmites and stalactites of odd sizes and shapes, like pagodas, dinosaurs, custard apples, and fried eggs. Some chambers can only be accessed by crawling or climbing, making it fun for visitors. To get there, start from Khanom district office, turn right at the intersection to Don Sak and take a left. The entrance has a bus stop called Sala Tansakun which is easily noticeable. Drive for 6km until you reach the cave. Visitors must first obtain the cave key from the keeper at the cave entrance. Khao Phlai Dam (เขาพลายดำ) is a seaside mountain which borders Khanom and Sichon. The Khao Phlai Dam Wildlife Development and Conservation Office are here in Tambon Thung Sai. Hat Thong Yang in the area is a fine beach suitable for swimming. A number of herbivores inhabit the mountain, such as deer, mouse deer and a variety of birds. To get to the mountain, travel from Sichon to the north to Tambon Thung Sai for 12km. Wat Kradangnga (วัดกระดังงา) is an ancient temple of Khanom that was probably built during the Ayutthaya period. The temple is about 200 metres from the Khanom-Nai Phlao road. Inside the convocation hall are exquisite murals of Lord Buddha’s life. There is also a magnificent Buddha image from the Ayutthaya period and interesting artifacts, particularly plates and bowls. Wat That Tharam or Wat Khao That (วัดธาตุธารามหรือวัดเขาธาตุ) is unique in that it has a pagoda made of coral located on Khao That. It is said that this pagoda was built by people from Chaiya who originally wanted to donate valuables to build Phra Borom That in Nakhon Si Thammarat but were too late in doing so, and diverted resources to this pagoda instead. The entire pagoda is made of coral in the shape of an inverted jar. It has a diametre of 5-6 metres. The pagoda is surrounded by Buddha images of red sandstone. The pagoda represents a period of Buddhism that flourished in this peninsula. Wat Chedi Luang (วัดเจดีย์หลวง) is in Mu 4, Ban Tha Nai, Tambon Khuan Thong. This ancient community still shows numerous traces of mounds, ponds, stones from a sanctuary, statue bases, and phallic symbols.

Sleep
Amphoe Khanom อำเภอขนอม
 * Ek Hotel (เอกโฮเต็ล) 101/14 Akkharawithi Road (Tel: 0 75 529123), 12 rooms: 180–200 baht

--(WT-en) globe-trotter 20:49, 5 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Khanom/Listings


text:
Talk:Khao Lak

How many visits?
So, we spend some time entering interesting information on this page, making sure it's both correct and acceptable. But we then have no idea if the information was of use to anyone! How about some sort of hit counter so that visits can be visible to both those who contributed and those who enquired? --(WT-en) Russetsprint 14:59, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

 * Wikivoyage used to have them, but they were removed years ago since they caused too much server load... (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:36, 7 July 2009 (EDT)

So, no way to measure success at all? Most on line forums have hit counters and don't seem to have problems. Wikivoyage is superior to forums as it avoids the 'me me' bragging and other personality 'conflicts' so a measure of it's success would be useful I would suggest. --(WT-en) Russetsprint 09:54, 8 July 2009 (EDT)

 * Do a web search for "Khao Lak" and see how high Wikivoyage comes up. Eg "khao lak travel guide" on Google gets Wikivoyage as the 2nd hit. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:09, 8 July 2009 (EDT)

thanks for your hard work
currently using wikivoyage to plan my 3 week trip to the phuket area! =D

To what end?
I worked my butt off to edit/rewrite/add content on Khao Lak. It was (is?) by far and away the best travel info on the area. Googling "Khao Lak travel" today (2014-06-14) and WV is about the 33d listing that comes up, preceded by a lot of dross that has unapologetically ripped off (my) WV content. This is depressing in the extreme and frankly militates against further participation. --A contributor —The preceding comment was added by 223.206.45.154 (talk • contribs) 07:33, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

 * I'm sorry if you are frustrated, but please don't be too downhearted. Search engine rankings will undoubtedly improve when some effort is put into distinguishing our code from that of Wikitravel and its many clones. Unfortunately Google is resolutely opposed to getting humans to assess sites, so it currently has no way of knowing how much better we are. BushelCandle (talk) 12:34, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Be fair ?
This edit (and similar recent ones) seems to take issue with one of our policies: our travel writing should describe things fairly, even if that means that a description isn't flattering. This fundamental policy allows travelers to make informed decisions based on honest information. Our guides should not be written from a neutral or encyclopedic point of view, but should be written for travelers from a traveler's point of view. Lively writing is encouraged so long as it describes the destination in a clear and correct manner. We should make every attempt to be fair in articles.

Being "fair" does not necessarily mean being "nice". We have a mission to make (among other things) a reliable and complete travel guide, and a travel guide that doesn't give qualitative information about the things it describes isn't reliable or complete. In other words, we need to call a spade a spade (but not necessarily a fucking shovel); if a restaurant is crowded, loud, and overpriced, we need to say so. If a hotel has bugs, smells of urine, or is dangerously or badly built, we need to say so. If somewhere's dirty, ugly, annoying, or just not worth the effort, we need to say so too!

What do others think? BushelCandle (talk) 12:42, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Khao Lak


text:
Talk:Khao Sok National Park

Itinerary from TAT
Just move this here for future reference, clutters the main page.

Suggested Itinerary
Khao Sok 4 Days / 3 Nights
 * Day 1 - Leave for the area around Khao Sok National Park head quarters in the morning from Phuket, Krabi or Suratthani. Visit the Elephant camp and do Nature exploring by canoeing down the Sok River. In the evening, enjoy sounds from the rainforest.
 * Day 2 - Visit the jungle cave temple. Go hiking in the National Park by your self or by hiring a local guide. The trails inside the National Park are well marked there are several waterfalls on the way. From January to February it's possible to find the Worlds biggest flower the Rafflesia blossom.
 * Day 3 - Continue to Chiew Lan Lake about 70 km away and depart from the Rajjabrapa pier. On the way to the raft houses we will sail amidst spectacular rock formations and make a detour for Gulin of Khao Sok - a scenic place on the lake. Check in on simple bamboo rafthouse. Paddle a canoe to explore the lake and look for wildlife. Take a bamboo raft to a newly discovered dripstone cave.
 * Day 4 - Value of the stay in the wilderness, get up with the sun. Take a canoe or arrange with the boat driver to go for a safari to scan the banks. Morning is the time of day where the animals is most active and if a branche in the canopy flick from one side to the other, then it should be a group of monkeys searching for the first meal of the day. Take a swim in the lake and head back to the pier by longtailed-boat. Transfer to ongoing destinations can be arranged.

Tour & activity operators
 * Wild Kingdom Tours Co. Ltd. (บริษัท ไวลด์ คิงดัม ทัวร์) Tel: +66(0)76 296 231

--(WT-en) globe-trotter 13:38, 15 February 2010 (EST)

Section in violation of policy?
This entire section would seem to violate both tour and external links, not to mention the listings in violation of don't tout. Why do we have this section? By the way, Morning Mist already has a "Sleep" listing.

Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:19, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

 * I agree that these shouldn't be in the article. --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:45, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Khao Sok National Park


text:
Talk:Khao Yai National Park

TAT Listings
I moved TAT listings from the province page to Talk:Khao Yai National Park/Listings for future reference. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 10:09, 7 February 2010 (EST)

Khao Yai Wildlife Tours
Their office is in Nakhon Ratchasima, which according to Google Maps is about 150 km and 1.5 hours' drive from the park. However, as I understand it, Wikivoyage policy is to put permitted tour listings in the place where they're headquartered, not the place(s) they conduct tours, so I think the listing should be moved to Nakhon Ratchasima, with appropriate edits. Does anyone disagree? Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:01, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Khao Yai National Park


text:
Talk:Khao Yai National Park/Listings

See
Khao Yai National Park Thailand first national park. Has an area of about 2,168 square kilometres in the Phanom Dong Rak mountain range and covers Nakhon Ratchasima, Nakhon Nayok, Saraburi, and Prachin Buri. The area is home to an abundance of animals such as 3,000 species of plant, 200 wild elephants, tigers, gibbons, bears, deer, bats, wild pigs, bird, and etc.

In the past when there were no roads through the area, Khao Yai was regarded among travellers as a wild and dangerous place. The jungle here divides the Central Region and the Northeast. Khao Yai became Thailand’s first national park on 18th September 1962 and is an ASEAN World Heritage because of its variety of flora and fauna.

The general terrain of Khao Yai National Park consists of mixed forests and rainforests. Some parts have wide plains interspersed with verdant forests. There are many valuable plants, including plants that are traded, scented plants and herbs. There are several mountains, with peaks ranging from 800-3,000 metres above sea level. Due to its altitude and the lush jungles here, Khao Yai has a cool climate even in summer, with an average temperature of 23 degrees Celsius. Khao Yai gets the most visitors in the cool season from October to February. In the rainy season, trekking is not as convenient, but the area is refreshingly green and all the waterfalls are full of water, sending echoes all around and creating a lively atmosphere for visitors.

Wild animals that can be frequently seen include deer that graze on grass plains and sometimes come to feed around the park office. Other animals are elephants, sun bears, wild boars, monkeys, tigers, gaurs, and mountain goats. The park built 2 wildlife watchtowers at Mo Singto and Nong Phak Chi. Visitors are allowed up there during 8 a.m.- 6 p.m. Those who want to go on a night safari by car can contact the park office before 6 p.m.

Khao Yai is also suitable for butterfly and bird watching. Surveys found that there are over 200 species of birds here that use Khao Yai as a feeding ground and as a permanent home.

Jungle Trekking - There are more than 20 trails to choose from, each different in natural beauty and distance. Some trails take 1-2 hours to complete like the Kong Kaeo trail and the Km. 33 trail (Thanarat Road-Nong Phak Chi). Some trails require overnight stays like the Nang Rong-Khao Yai trail, Samo Pun trail or Kho Yo 4 Unit-Wang Heo waterfall trail. Information and guides can be obtained from the tourist service centre. For Khao Yai National Park the admission fee is 400 baht for adults and 200 baht for children. Accommodation in Khao Yai National Park and in other Thai National parks can be reserved at www.dnp.go.th or by calling the Parks Reservation Division, National Park Office, Tel. 02 5620760

Places of Interest in the Park

Kong Kaeo Waterfall(น้ำตกกองแก้ว) is a low waterfall that originates from Huai Lam Takhong that divides Nakhon Nayok and Nakhon Ratchasima. It is especially lovely in the rainy season. It is suitable for swimming and can be reached by walking from the tourist service centre for about 100 metres. A rope bridge spanning the waterfall gives the area a natural feel and nearby are short nature trails.

Pha Kluai Mai Waterfall (น้ำตกผากล้วยไม้) is a medium waterfall in Huai Lam Takhong, about 7 kilometres from the park office. It can be reached by car and by foot. In the area visitors can find the Red Dendrobium orchid that is the symbol of the waterfall. The waterfall has two separate bodies of water flowing down rock levels to merge at the bottom. A trail leads to Heo Suwat waterfall.

Heo Suwat Waterfall (น้ำตกเหวสุวัต) is a famous waterfall at the end of Thanarat Road. It is accessible by car. The waterfall is only 100 metres by foot from the parking lot, or a 3-kilometre walk from Pha Kluai Mai waterfall. The water falls from a cliff about 20 metres up. A distant viewpoint offers a lovely high-angle view of the waterfall through trees, or you can walk down to the waterfall itself. However, please note that in the rainy season the water flows rapidly and caution should be taken.

Heo Narok Waterfall (น้ำตกเหวนรก) is the largest and highest waterfall of the park. It is south of the park office on the way to Prachin Buri. You can walk 1 kilometre by foot from the main road to a viewpoint where you can see the beautiful waterfall. The waterfall has 3 levels. The first is about 60 metres up. Water from this level goes down to the second and third levels straight down below, with a total drop of at least 150 metres. The water has considerable strength in the rainy season and is quite dangerous, but refreshing, when it comes splashing down on rocks at the bottom. The area around the waterfall is the usual feeding ground of wild elephants and there have been occasional accidents when elephants drop from the cliff and die.

There are also other lesser waterfalls in the park like Mai Plong Waterfall, Heo Sai Waterfall and Heo Prathun Waterfall. For information, contact the park’s tourist service centre.

Getting There - Khao Yai National Park is only about 205 kilometres from Bangkok. You can take 1 of 2 ways; from Km. 56 of Mittraphap Road go on to Thanarat Road for about 23 kilometres or at Hin Kong intersection, go onto Highway No. 33 (Nakhon Nayok-Prachin Buri) to Noen Hom intersection and take Highway No. 3077 to the park. The second route is rather steep and is more suitable for the return trip.

Sleep
Accommodation near Khao Yai

 * Ban Duang Pon Resort (บ้านดวงพร รีสอร์ท) 161/1 Km.20 Thanarat Road, Tambon Mu Si (Tel: 0 4429 7074, 0 4429 7094), 11 rooms: 600-1,800 baht www.duangponresort.com
 * Rabiang Lure Resort (ระเบียงเรือรีสอร์ท)  72 Mu 9  Pansuek – Kudkla Road  Tambon Phaya Yen (Tel: 0 3622 7189, 08 9699 7968), 33 rooms: 1,500-15,000 baht
 * Ban Ruea Khao Yai Resort (บ้านเรือเขาใหญ่ รีสอร์ท) 101/3 Km.20.5 Thanarat Road, Ban Kutkla (Tel: 0 4429 7151) 30 rooms: 700-1,400 baht
 * Ban Suan Nok (บ้านสวนนก) 23/5 Thanarat  Road.  Km. 20  (Tel : 0 4429 7620),  10  houses  : 1,200 –2,500  baht.
 * Greenery (กรีนเนอรี่) 188/ 1 Mu 5 Km.22 Thanarat Road, Tambon Mu Si (Tel: 0 4429 7668 Fax:     0 4429 7226 Bangkok Tel: 0 2661 2999, Fax: 0 2661 2389)   300 rooms www.greeneryresort.com   2,700++ - 7,200++

--(WT-en) globe-trotter 10:11, 7 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Khao Yai National Park/Listings


text:
Talk:Khiva

Pictures
There are many good CC licensed pictures on Flickr, here are some good ones... --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 13:57, 3 April 2009 (EDT)
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/upyernoz/480891/
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/upyernoz/480574/
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/upyernoz/472835/
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/upyernoz/481797/
 * http://www.flickr.com/photos/upyernoz/480993/
 * Thanks for the links. Some of these are definitely representative of the town, especially that one at dusk. I plan on releasing some of my own into the public domain via flickr and posting them up on the Khiva page too. Looking forward to plunging forth on this article! :) (WT-en) iqbalza (zain iqbal) 14:12, 3 April 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Khiva


text:
Talk:Kholmsk

appreciate the information 212.93.39.27 10:44, 17 March 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Kholmsk


text:
Talk:Khon Kaen

TAT Listings
I moved clutter and other useless listings to Talk:Khon Kaen/Listings for future reference. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 06:26, 6 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Khon Kaen