text:
Talk:Helsinki

Helsinki page is giving an error and is not displayed. Someone please correct!

Security issues
Is it really so scary down here that we need such a huge text block to explain that it actually isn't that dangerous at all? As far as I know, apart from drunken fights the only dangerous thing here are the slippery pavements.

 * Well noted; those sections tend to swell when locals start noting every bad thing that has ever happened and why it's not going to happen again. I tried to cut it down to size (and noted the pavements!). (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:08, 1 August 2007 (EDT)

-- I added once removed warning about crossing the streets; it's indeed very relevant for foreign visitors that came from countries where pedestrians can take it granted that their rights will be respected (re: http://www.hs.fi/kaupunki/artikkeli/Helsingiss%C3%A4+loukkaantuneet+norjalaiset+ovat+toipumassa/1135229433299)

Also, I think it is worthwhile destination information to underline that Helsinki *is* exceptionally safe to walk around and that there is no need to stay in the hotel and limit the excursions to clear daylight even if you're not of the young and adventurious type; my experience is that there are foreign cities where the good citizens shun the idea of entering the streets by foot after the darkness falls and any streets outside the neon-lit area are practically abandoned by the pedestrians.

The murder rate in Helsinki is much higher than almost all other European cities. 12.5 per 100,000 people per year compared to about 2 for dublin, london, vienna, rome, oslo etc. The murder rate in Helsinki is actually 2.55 Not 12.5 There is error in BBC source http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/artikkeli/Maakunnissa+enemm%C3%A4n+henkirikoksia+kuin+Helsingiss%C3%A4/1135233424670

Question concerning content
Hi, just some 1 week ago I was visiting the cathedral and at multiple spots paint came off the wall. Thus I'm a little surpised to read "the cathedral has recently been refurbished and looks better than ever" - when was this refurbishment? Or was it only at the outside? Thanks for that info, Schoschi of de.wikivoyage.org

To do:
Get-Around-section: What about cars - about parking in city centre to be more precise (fees, places etc?)

Drink-section: Maybe divided into subsections: citycenter, Uudenmaankatu and surroundigs, Kallio?

Party-section: Nightclubs shouldn't be to hard... there aren't that many. I don't have much expertise in that area, though.

Shop-section: Not my area either...

btw, If you add restaurants which are not in the center (or vicinity), we should probably create subsections there too.

-- Jussi

 * Is Helsinki big enough to divide up into districts? See Project:huge city article template and Project:district article template for some ideas. --(WT-en) Evan 17:09, 21 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * No, not really. Population is around 500,000 and almost all attractions, watering holes and hotels are in the fairly compact center. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:23, 29 Aug 2004 (EDT)

 * Err, those population statistics could be more presize, something like almost 560 000 for Helsinki and over 1,2 million for the Helsinki Region. Useful link: http://www.hel.fi/english/info/facts.html (Sorry, this probably isn't the right place for comments...)

Destination of the month
As this article will be the DotM for August, I think it might be a good idea if we all give it a once-over for manual of style compatibility. It looks good, but I've seen a few things that could use some more info, and some of these URLs need to be unpacked. --(WT-en) Evan 08:17, 28 Jul 2005 (EDT)

State
So I put this down as a "guide" but I think someone could argue it's a star. I think what it's lacking is a "tourist-style map" but I'm not sure if what's there would count. Comments?. (WT-en) Majnoona 22:48, 20 Nov 2005 (EST)

Similary to Stockholm
What makes Helsinki similar to Stockholm? Since it's reading in the article. Does Stockholm have the Russian empire like architecture like Helsinki does, from what I know it does not. I find it deceptive and it should be changed. OR if not then please explane!

 * They're both small, Nordic and boring, but Stockholm is a little bigger. "Russian" architecture in Helsinki is pretty much limited to the Uspenski Cathedral.  But instead of just deleting, how about you write a better description? (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:16, 7 Dec 2005 (EST)

 * I guess Helsinki and Stockholm being boring is pretty subjective, huh? I changed it a bit, feel free to comment if you don't feel convinced.

 * Eh, all what C.L. Engel has made in Helsinki is Russian Empire style. So, basically only whole senate square. Also few more not so important buildings like Merikasarmi (current foreign ministry) Uspenski is only example of Russian church architecture. Otherwise whole city is full of buildings designed by Russians or in St. Petersburg by order of Russian Tsar. Basically Sederholms house is one of only buildings from Swedish time since of burn of Helsinki in 1808 and rest of which is not more or less Russian is younger than 90 years. (WT-en) TeeMa

Reviews from Flyertalk
mosburger from Flyertalk has kindly granted permission to copy his capsule reviews of fine Helsinki restaurants to Wikivoyage. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:16, 6 July 2006 (EDT)and god said pie rocks

Focus on Helsinki?
I'm wondering about the focus of this article; should it be on the city of Helsinki alone or should the whole metropolitan area be covered? On one hand the three major cities (Helsinki, Espoo and Vantaa) work pretty much in cooperation and the municipality distinction is somewhat artificial — the international airport is actually located in Vantaa and "Helsinki" University of Technology is located in Espoo — but on the other hand, they are three distinct cities.

It just seems a bit odd that these three major Finnish cities (1st, 2nd and 4th largest as far as population goes) are all covered in one article (Espoo and Vantaa currently redirect to the Helsinki article) while much smaller cities and towns in Finland have their own articles. Furthermore, is a visitor to Helsinki really going to take the bus to Iso Omena or Myyrmanni malls when shopping? (WT-en) Jopo 08:14, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

 * Yeah, this is a bit tricky. But I don't think Espoo or Vantaa are "destinations" in the sense required for an article, so I don't see a need for splitting them off. If the Helsinki article is ever districted, then it would make sense to put them in their own districts. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:31, 21 August 2006 (EDT)

hel.fi vs helsinki.fi
So, some obscure history... the U of Helsinki (of Linus Torvalds fame) snagged helsinki.fi before the city caught onto this Intarweb thing, and the city was consequently relegated to hel.fi and wasn't too happy about it. After lots of fighting, the university agreed to decamp to helsinki.fi/university, and helsinki.fi was turned into the spectacularly useless "Helsinki Portal". The official tourism pages are still under hel.fi, so in my opinion that's where the official link should go. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:44, 4 October 2006 (EDT)

 * helsinki.fi was revamped recently and seems much improved. The front page now actually has useful stuff like event listings, weather info and the Journey Planner. A "Tourism and recreation" section also exists. On the other hand the hel.fi page is still around and has a link to helsinki.fi so I guess it continues to be more official. (WT-en) Lcpitkan 05:55, 13 February 2007 (EST)

Unnecessary Swedish names?
Jpatokal, can you state why the Swedish names are unnecessary? The Swedish names can often be easier to remember than the Finnish names (and vice versa), so can't both names stay?

BTW my edits had also more information than just place and street names, and it appears you reverted also them... :) 153.1.21.18 10:46, 12 December 2006 (EST)

 * See Talk:Finland. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:59, 12 December 2006 (EST)

 * OK, fine, but wtf is this then: There is also a significant Swedish speaking minority, and at many venues downtown you can also get service in Swedish. – if Swedish street and place names are unnecessary, wouldn't this be too? (WT-en) Ultrix 07:16, 20 December 2006 (EST)

 * That's there in case you happen to speak Swedish. (And if you do, you're not going to need tables of Swedish words.) (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:46, 20 December 2006 (EST)

 * Yeah, and if you do speak Swedish, you're most likely going to need the Swedish place names too. That's another argument for keeping them in the article, at least when mentioned the first time. If there's just "Katajanokka", and a Swede asks his Finland-Swedish friend eg. "kan du ta oss till Katajanokka när vi visiterar er" (= can you take us to Katajanokka when we visit you), will the Finland-Swede of course understand, but it sounds ridiculous. A bit like if you were talking in Finnish "mennäänks Stockholmiin vai Haparandaan" instead of Tukholmaan and Haaparantaan - ludicrous, isn't it? (WT-en) Ultrix 05:49, 9 February 2007 (EST)

 * Under the arbitrary three-first-letters rule I proposed on Talk:Finland, Katajanokka/Skatudden qualifies. But let's keep this on Talk:Finland, I'd prefer to establish a country-wide policy... (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:56, 9 February 2007 (EST)

I haven't edited any public wiki-article yet, so I'll just start with making a remark on this discussion page. In the understand/history-part of the Helsinki article it says that "...establisment of Sveaborg (nowadays Suomenlinna) Maritime Fortress...". I quickly read through the finnish/swedish-discussion on the talk/Finland page, but this still seems wrong. The name of Sveaborg hasn't changed to "Suomenlinna", "Suomenlinna" is just the finnish name.(WT-en) Pihlip 24.7.2011

Euros
This is the English Wikivoyage, so prices should be listed as €1.50 (English), not 1,50€ (Finnish). (WT-en) Jpatokal 16:54, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

 * Jopo, thanks for finally cleaning that up! Up next, all other articles for Finland =P (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:14, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

 * ;) --(WT-en) Jopo 04:07, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

Murder rates
I'm not disputing that Helsinki (like the rest of Finland) has a high murder rate by European standards. However, I don't think this has anything to do with visitors to the city, because an overwhelming majority of the people getting murdered in Finland end up that way in drunken family disputes. If you disagree, please find me one (1) case of a tourist being murdered in Helsinki. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:05, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

 * Drunken family disputes? Are you serious?  That's the number one cause of murders in Finland? -- (WT-en) Sapphire • (Talk) • 13:30, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

 * Yup. And the weapon of choice is a knife (one of these, to be exact). (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:23, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

 * Number one cause of homicides in Finland is drunken fights among groups of people, who have gathered to drink in some other place than public bar(how do you say "ryyppyporukka" in English?). Sometimes there`s family members included, but thats not the point. The point is excessive consumption of alcohol somewhere where no-one is going to stop the fight or call the police before it`s too late. And yes, often there`s knife(s) involved.
 * Also, often these people have a lot of troubles in their life already, like alcoholism, long lasting unemployment, perhaps more or less crime records etc.

 * http://www.mtv3.fi/uutiset/rikos.shtml/arkistot/rikos/2008/01/599275

 * http://www.haaste.om.fi/29086.htm
 * (links are in Finnish)

 * (WT-en) Hessu 03:39, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

Dramatic performance?
Hi all,

If I'm looking to catch some dramatic performance in Helsinki, what venues should I look out for?219.95.250.190 11:23, 17 June 2008 (EDT)

Whys Festivals
Whys festivals under understand-it's a DO thing. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee talk 23:52, 16 November 2008 (EST).

Bug?
Hi,

The Loose bar is incorrectly listed as Frederikinkatu 34. However, when I go to edit the page, it appears that the address is correct (annankatu 25) in the editing textarea. What's going on? In any case, the main page needs to be updated.

 * It lists correctly for me, try updating (F5) or using this link - should make it work for you. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 14:50, 18 April 2009 (EDT)

Districts
How about splitting up the Helsinki in smaller districts, for instance like in this picture? As of now, the article is 47 pages long if printed and there are quite a lot of different Eat and Drink establishments in the article. Plus, I think it would be useful to have the sights, activities, restaurants, hotels etc. organized more exactly according to where in the city they're located - downtown, south, west, east or in the suburbs. In my opinion six district articles for Helsinki (plus one article each for Espoo and Vantaa which are part of the capital region but not of the city proper) would be a quite good number, Helsinki it isn't as big as London or New York anyways... Ypsilon (talk) 19:16, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

 * Good idea! But what about less districts, as Helsinki is not a huge city, like here: Central, West, North, East? Danapit (talk) 18:42, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

 * But Stockholm, Copenhagen and St.Petersburg and everyone else also have a lot of district articles!!! OK, that was a bad excuse :). While I definitely oppose the creation of twenty-something district stubs for Helsinki, I still think four is a little bit too little when we're at it. When designing the district division seen in the map I was thinking like this: 1. the city center is where most points of interest are - as in any city. If you want to move on to "some place with less action" you can go north or 2. south, and if you're going north Helsinki is effectively split up by the railway into a 3. western (greener, more silent, a bit more affluent) and 4. eastern (more bohemian and "rough") part. Further away we have the suburbs "where you cannot go by tram" with shopping malls and highways, which I split up in two 5. 6., because I think it'd be quite odd to have places as far from each other as Itäkeskus and Konala in the same article. I also made a split between the Inner East and the Eastern Suburbs as in the first one is city like and the other, well, suburban. We could include the content of a possible South article in the Central article, but, again I feel the southern areas are a little bit too residential to be called "Central". And then of course separate articles for Espoo and Vantaa. It's just a local Stadilainen's biased view on how to look at the city. Ypsilon (talk) 09:44, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

 * I understand your reasoning and mostly agree. I have a little bit problem with the South. In my mental concept of Helsinki this would belong partly to Center (areas like Kaivopuisto, Merisatama, Suomenlinna, Punavuori, Kamppi) or to West (Ruoholahti, Jätkäsaari, Lauttasaari) being an area around Laajalahti bay. Just a suggestion :-) It would be great to hear some more opinions before moving forward. Danapit (talk) 11:41, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

 * I am not from Helsinki, so my mental map is not too good for the purpose, but I think including Suomenlinna in "Centre" means you cannot longer just walk to the nice sounding restaurant you found, while Punavuori and Ullanlinna are residential, not busy centre areas. Kaivopuisto feels as centre just because people tend to go there, but not all interesting places have to be in "Center". I think there is no problem having eight districts, there is plenty to tell about any of them and it seems we have people interested in this city (I was quite impressed by the amount of information). --LPfi (talk) 13:46, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

 * I'm fine with a division of the southern areas like that. However I'd like to have a little bit of balance between the lengths of the different articles, so that the central article wouldn't alone be e.g. four times longer than the rest of the articles combined. Therefore I figured a separate article for the southern parts could be useful (to put some of the stuff in that otherwise would've gone into the central article). That's just a thought. But let's wait for some more comments. Ypsilon (talk) 14:21, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

 * Sounds convincing. Danapit (talk) 14:33, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

I've opposed distrification for Helsinki previously, because it's hard to split up naturally and it's just not that big. If we've got too much stuff in there (and some of those restaurant listings are pretty random: food court Hot Woks and half the Nepalese and Thai places in the city?), then maybe we should look at trimming out the fat...

But if y'all insist, then at least keep the number as low as possible. "Center" and "South" should just be one, I'd lump everything east of Pitkasilta (Kallio to Itakeskus) to be "East", and North/Vantaa are one block in my book (if they need a page at all...). Jpatokal (talk) 02:40, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

 * OK, looks like it's going to be: 1. Center (and South), 2. West, 3. Inner East, 4. Eastern Suburbs, 5. Vantaa and Northern Helsinki (exists already as Vantaa), 6. Espoo (exists). But let's wait at least another week or two before starting to break up the article. Ypsilon (talk) 20:31, 31 May 2013 (UTC)

 * Would you be able to prepare district article mock-ups, as well as one for the main article after districtification, to see which attractions and what content goes into each individual one? This would make the answer self-evident IMHO. PrinceGloria (talk) 06:01, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

 * Check out User:Ypsilon :). I've added quite a few more points of interest to the articles and I'll plan to improve a bit before the possible "release" (re-arrange some stuff, check whether all those web links work, clean up whatever has to be cleaned up and take some photos for better banners etc.). And the district map I made with no prior knowledge of Inkscape, well, as long as nobody opens it in fullscreen it's quite decent... Ypsilon (talk) 06:48, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

 * At a first glance, you really did great with the districtification and also the map! I think it can be released. I just wonder about Vantaa and Espoo: in the Helsinki main article Vantaa is included as a sort of district and Espoo isn't - in my opinion Espoo should also be included for consistency. What do you think? Danapit (talk) 07:44, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

 * Wohoo! Thanks! Yes, all of the Capital region should be somehow "accessible" from the main article as they all kinda "belong" to Helsinki (now Vantaa is there just as a "stowaway passenger" as one can't sleep in Northern Helsinki). And that's an opportunity to teach myself more Inkscape while making a map of the Capital region (with both Espoo and Vantaa completely depicted). Ypsilon (talk) 12:26, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

 * I have also taken a look at your articles. I do admire the amount of effort you have taken so far.
 * That said, the article that cobbles together Northern Helsinki and Vantaa seems a bit clumsy to me. If Vantaa is a separate municipality, does it really "deserve" to be lumped together with Northern Helsinki? And even if so, a much more elaborate lead explaining why it is so, why they are in fact one entity that has more in common than Northern Helsinki has with other parts of Helsinki.
 * Alternatively, perhaps you could consider whether it would not be better to have all of the Helsinki suburbs in one article, and leave the poor Vantaa with its own article.
 * Finally, while the articles indeed help to see how you envisage to implement the split, without at least area maps it is hard to see whether the "district" boundaries make sense and the districts are indeed entities that are easy to explore and navigate on their own each. Perhaps you could use the Google Maps and mark all the important POIs in each district for us to get a good idea thereof. You could then use the Google Maps to make the final maps yourself or ask the kind mapmaking souls to do it. Kindest, PrinceGloria (talk) 13:14, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

 * I definitely think the main Helsinki article should cover the whole capital region (which it actually now already does) as Helsinki, Espoo and Vantaa from the travelers point of view are one single metropolis, period. Espoo (itself including and enclosing the administratively separate city of Kauniainen, 6sqkm, 9000 inhabitants, AFAIK no hotels) and Vantaa are indeed administratively separate cities - just like City of Westminster is officially separate from London. But Espoo and Vantaa are not typical cities with one absolute city center but areas containing different clusters of suburbs built up in the countryside around Helsinki.
 * Northern Helsinki does not consist of street blocks, walkable distances and the occasional summertime alfresco pub like Central, West and Inner East, but is in this respect quite similar to both the "far east", Vantaa and Espoo (six-line highways, high-rise apartment buildings, hypermarkets). But it's "on the road" to Vantaa, especially as most public transportation rays out from central Helsinki, and if the North content would move elsewhere, Vantaa would be a little emptier. But right now I'm working on a district map with all of Helsinki, Espoo and Vantaa which I at least would like to finish and put temporarily on show on User:Ypsilon/Helsinki because, well a map explains more than a thousand words (and I've already put down a couple of hours of work into it...) Ypsilon (talk) 17:46, 25 June 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, so here's that map with a larger oversight, I already placed it on the mockup article a few days back. Ypsilon (talk) 10:34, 30 June 2013 (UTC)

 * Great job, I find it very good. I also think the district articles are in a good shape to be released. Danapit (talk) 10:25, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Thx!! It took a while to make the maps (ah, the joy when the district colors float into the white waves of the sea like small colorful fishing hooks and you gotta redo everything :/). One more thing, though, before I dare to release them: quite a few of the coordinates that the map uses are incorrect. Kallio church is for example certainly not north of Pasila as the map claims... Ypsilon (talk) 10:47, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Looks like Torty3 and you Danapit fixed many of the coordinates. I'll start putting the district articles in the main namespace now, and at some point I'll start sorting out and adding coordinates for the rest of the listings. But I'm sorry to say that torty3's geocoder placed Espoo's Serena Water theme park about ten kilometers to the south-southwest when I just tried it. Ypsilon (talk) 16:17, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

I removed the District template from the page, since it has been discussed and performed. Great job, Ypsilon! Danapit (talk) 07:54, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

 * Is it possible to remove the green "Helsinki metropolitan area" map? I feel it provides double information together with the "Capital Region or Greater Helsinki" map. Danapit (talk) 08:53, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:42, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Status
After districtification, we should newly evaluate the status (and mainly those of the new districts). Helsinki was a guide before and for it to remain guide all districts must be at least usable, but I think that is no problem (I changed them all to usable for the time being). I wonder if some of them aren't guides already - West maybe? Danapit (talk) 23:28, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure they are all usable. West looks good, as (you've?) added the coordinates for everything. I'll eventually try to look through the other articles as well... ϒpsilon (talk) 09:23, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Further districtification
A glance at the dynamic map in Helsinki/Central tells me it wouldn't hurt to split Central a bit further. How about: Comments? Dana? Prince? --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:10, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * 1) Central-Katajanokka: East of Mannerheimintie, north of Esplanadi. Including the city core, Kaisaniemi, Kruunuhaka and Katajanokka.
 * 2) South: South of Bulevardi and Esplanadi. Including Punavuori, Eira, Ullanlinna and Kaivopuisto.
 * 3) Kamppi and Southwest: The corridor between Baana and Bulevardi, would also include Ruoholahti and Lauttasaari (ripped out of the West).

 * With 19 See and 3 Do? I would rather say the selection of Eat and Drink is perhaps a bit too liberal and this makes the map appear crowded. Also try to use a full page width MapFrame (align=none, width between 600 and 800) and use one further zoom level and it should appear much more clear.PrinceGloria (talk) 22:37, 10 February 2014 (UTC)
 * OK. ϒpsilon (talk) 05:14, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
 * ϒpsilon, sorry for the late reply... I tend to agree with PrinceGloria, that it is not necessary. The bigger map is good. Danapit (talk) 08:14, 18 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Probably you're right... ϒpsilon (talk) 12:42, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

OK, I'm at least going to create a couple of mockup districts for people and myself to look at. If you still think we should keep Central as it is, then let's forget about it. ϒpsilon (talk) 08:21, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * And you can see the new districts here: User:Ypsilon/Central_Helsinki, User:Ypsilon/South_Helsinki, User:Ypsilon/Kamppi_and_Southwest. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:47, 16 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Will deploy them this weekend, if there are no complaints. ϒpsilon (talk) 12:07, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * ϒpsi, I was a priori against further distrification, becasue I personally get lost in when travel guides divided in districst. Specialy in case of Helsinki, I thought dividing center further was not necessary, because it's so compact. However, I must say you did great job and the new districts make sense. Kamppi_and_Southwest would deserve a pretier banner, I feel :) I can take care of that. I hesitantly support the move. Danapit (talk) 17:37, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Properly speaking it's not so much "further districtification" as just cutting off the southern and southwestern corner. I mean comparing to city districts in other cities, Helsinki/Central is really a candidate for the "longest article" prize, should we have one.
 * Kamppi and southwest's banner are from the viewing platform of the Verkkokauppa.com department store from little over a year ago and I have some other photos too from there. :) Ps. I played around with the banner's brightness and color saturation parameters, perhaps it looks better now? ϒpsilon (talk) 18:28, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
 * My idea for a banner was a view from Lauttasaari towards Ruoholahti accross the bay. I have some with a nice atmosphere - it's just a matter of finding them... Danapit (talk) 09:41, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Why not? I would have some pics from the same location as the banner pic but looking towards Lauttasaari, but those would be outdated as the city will demolish the very visible water tower in a couple of months. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:10, 19 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Is that so??? What a pity! Danapit (talk) 17:51, 19 September 2015 (UTC)

New banner
User:Helenilus inserted a new banner, a unilateral edit which I have undone pending a discussion.

On this occasion, I find the proposed new banner superior to the existing one, and would support the change, however I don't know the city at all so can only judge from the perspective of a potential visitor.

Here are the two for comparison:

What does the community think? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:57, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

 * The new banner is the classic view of the city, close to what you see when arriving by sea, including the market place and the lutheran and orthodox cathedrals. The former one was of the railway station, which is an important landmark, but just one place. I think the new one is the obvious choice. --LPfi (talk) 18:01, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

 * Hi all, I read about discussing a proposed edit for banners, but as I wasn't quite sure how to do it, just for this occasion I went ahead and changed the banner without discussion. I hope community agrees a view of a cityscape better represents Helsinki. -- Helenilus (talk) 18:19, 6 February 2019 (UTC)

 * Yup, that's the view of Helsinki and a quite nice photo at that. On the other hand, we have so many article banners with "panorama from far away" that it gets sort of monotonous. Do as you like, but if the banner is changed, I think the railway station (and Sokos department store) banner should be used on Helsinki/Central, whose current banner is a zoomed in version of the new Helsinki banner. -- ϒψιλον  (talk ) 15:22, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

 * That's a nice idea.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:51, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

 * Okay, so over a whole day since the last opinion was offered, with unanimous support from everyone I expected to comment, I've plunged forward and instated the proposed banner. In just a sec, I'll put the old banner onto that district article.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:25, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

Climate
Can you guys confirm this? Find it quite hard to believe. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:08, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

 * Climate change or the temperatures mentioned? For Turku, I have once experienced -34°C, while I remember every winter had a week or so with below -20° in the 1980s. In this century, day temperatures have dropped below -20° only some years, and I think not a single time below -25°. One should of course study the statistics instead of trusting one's memory.

 * For Helsinki, I suppose they might have even fewer really cold spells, as they are directly by the sea, which therefore has to freeze before they get the extremes. I believe the temperatures were given as too low before the edit (-30 for a week, that I'd remember! it happened once in the 1980s). And -15° for a week or two, that'd be normal.

 * –LPfi (talk) 01:31, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

 * For Helsinki, it depends. Near the sea it's milder but e.g. near the 3rd ring road (15 km inland) it's colder. -25°C is certainly possible in the night and early morning, during the day not expected but not impossible either. Days well above +30°C happened this summer, and before that during the long hot summer of 2018. --Ypsilon (talk) 04:36, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Regional trains
I was going to link Helsinki from Uusimaa, but there is not much information. I noticed though:
 * HSL city tickets are valid within city limits, regional tickets on suburban trains to Espoo, Vantaa and Kauniainen.

Is this still true? Isn't that system replaced with the ABCD system, where parts of Helsinki itself is in the more expensive regions?

I would also want to confirm my memory of bikes on trains: on IC trains there are racks (and I assume also on Pendolinos), but on regional trains, can you take bikes to any department?

–LPfi (talk) 10:58, 16 November 2021 (UTC)

Tiketti, Tavasti etc.
I wonder whether some touting or otherwise inappropriate listings have slipped in.

 * Is Tiketti such an ubiquitous aggregator that we should list it? Normally we don't, and if they don't have tickets for all concerts, or don't treat all venues fairly, we should be very clear about what they offer.
 * Why is Tavastia listed here, and not only in the district article? If it is to be kept here for some reason, we should at least point to the listing proper in the district.
 * The bullet for Helsinki Philharmonic Orchestra should point to the listing proper in a district.
 * "Skippered Day Sailing" should be treated like the normal cruises. Where are they? The listing, wherever it should go, should tell the company's name and other details, not just refer to a Facebook page.

The shopping districts are described by street names, the market halls by name. Shouldn't we also point to the district article in question?

–LPfi (talk) 18:17, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

 * I removed Tiketti and Tavasti (leaving the Tavasti image and caption, should perhaps be removed by the image policy). I left the rest, except cinemas. I think something more probably should be done to the Do section.

 * I cut down on the number of links for Finnkino and moved some cinema info to the neighbouring towns. However, I did not create listings in the districts. Also here it seems we are against policy: although these are not listings, we do not point to listings in the districts, and info on cinemas is absent from the district articles. Is this a mistake or is cinema thought to be too mundane for listings? Isn't at least Tennispalatsi worth a listing?

 * –LPfi (talk) 17:16, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

 * Already last year I thought about updating and cleaning up the Helsinki and district articles but I didn't want to start something I might not have time to finish (though as of now I'm tinkering a little with the Central district). Tiketti shouldn't probably be listed, better to lead the readers to the websites of the venues from where they can get to ticket sites if they want to buy tickets. Tavastia is a famous rock club with a long history and should definitely be listed in Kamppi. The Philharmonic would go to the Music house I think (Musiikkitalo in Helsinki/West), and the cruises in Kruununhaka & Katajanokka which I plan to split off Central Helsinki at some point. Ypsilon (talk) 19:01, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Map picture at Helsinki is obsolete
The map picture at the Helsinki article is obsolete. The large purple area shows the northern part of Helsinki and the entire city of Vantaa blended into one area. No such unified area exists in real life as Vantaa is a separate city and the northern part of Helsinki has no special autonomous status. The subarticle about the area was split to Helsinki/Northern suburbs and Vantaa over three and a half years ago. The map picture should be redrawn to show Vantaa in a different colour just like Espoo, or perhaps remove the colouring of Vantaa and Espoo altogether. JIP (talk) 00:36, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Ypsilon, do you still have the original materials for that map? WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:17, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

 * The editable vector file of the map is here: File:Helsinki Capital region map.svg --Ypsilon (talk) 11:19, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

 * Probably quicker to draw a new one, though. --Ypsilon (talk) 11:28, 5 March 2022 (UTC)

 * ✅ --Ypsilon (talk) 20:28, 20 March 2022 (UTC)

Vorschmack authentically Finnish?
In Eat we say:
 * "For something authentically Finnish and uniquely Helsinki, try Vorschmack, an unusual but surprisingly tasty mix of minced lamb and herring, served with chopped pickles and sour cream (smetana)."

The word at least is not Finnish. Is this originally German food imported via the Russian Empire (as the name and description hint)? If it indeed is an authentically Finnish variant, at least a few more words should be used, as this isn't exactly karjalanpaisti. –LPfi (talk) 08:17, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I note, in Helsinki/South: "they still serve some of the dishes that Field Marshal Mannerheim used to order, such as the famous Vorschmack (a comparatively cheap €18)". Is that the only place were you get that dish? If so, is kind of unfair to mention it without giving directions. I don't know whether it deserves mention here; I assume there are several other special dishes across the restaurants. –LPfi (talk) 08:25, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It is mentioned also in helsinki/Kamppi and Southwest: "Try one of the three classics: Vorschmack with duchess potatoes, [...]". –LPfi (talk) 08:28, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Vorschmack is definitely Helsinki but probably not "Finnish", whatever that means. Savoy & Kosmos are the best-known purveyors, but it's available at a few other classy/old-school places as well (Elite, Sea Horse, etc). Jpatokal (talk) 09:18, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * w:Vorschmack says
 * "Vorschmack [...] is an originally East European dish made of salty minced fish or meat. Different variants of this dish are especially common in Ashkenazi Jewish and Finnish cuisine. Some varieties are also known in Ukrainian, Polish and Russian cuisine."
 * I am inclined to believe Wikipedia on this. Helsinki might have imported the tradition with immigrating Jews or from Russia, and I don't know why the dish wouldn't have survived elsewhere (although perhaps not in Saint Petersburg if Finns believe Finland is unique in this respect).
 * –LPfi (talk) 12:45, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Tinder and Jodel
I removed the addition on these apps:
 * "Mobile apps, such as Tinder and Jodel, are currently very popular among single tourists heading to Helsinki. With the help of the applications, you can create contact with locals to seek possible guidance make easier to find the city's popular events and places, or just to make new friendships."

Is that really how you use these apps? Do foreigners know Jodel? And if they are useful specifically for single tourists, does that imply that you really use them to find gender-appropriate company for things not related to tourist guidance?

If the apps really are useful for a tourist to reach people who just want to help or spend time with them, then we should probably put them back, but then "single" probably is irrelevant, and you need some guidance on how to use the apps for such aims.

–LPfi (talk) 13:00, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Northern Katajanokka touristy?
In the description of Helsinki/Kruununhaka and Katajanokka we say:
 * "Possibly the most touristy part of Helsinki, the northern halves of Kruununhaka and Katajanokka are mainly residential."

I think what is intended is "While this district possibly is the most touristy part of Helsinki, the northern halves of Kruununhaka and Katajanokka are mainly residential." Could somebody in the know (Ypsilon?) confirm either way and amend if needed. –LPfi (talk) 14:45, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

 * Yes, it's my writing. It's the southern half of Kruununhaka centered around the cathedral and the Senate Square and two blocks away from them in each direction that's the touristy part, continuing to the east to the southwestern corner of Katajanokka. Northern Kruununhaka and Northern Katajanokka are residential, but they do have a couple of quite "grand" buildings. Ypsilon (talk) 15:36, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

 * Tried to clarify it. Ypsilon (talk) 15:43, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

 * Thanks. –LPfi (talk) 20:07, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Flying to Turku or Tallinn and then catching a coach or ferry, really?
I quote this from Helsinki: "Coming from Europe you may also want to consider flying to the airport of Turku, Lappeenranta or Tallinn as they have some ultra low-cost flights by Ryanair and WizzAir. You can take a ferry from Tallinn or an intercity bus or train from the other two cities."

I find a few things problematic with this:
 * Helsinki IS in Europe; can we not get bogged down with the stereotypical definition of Europe?
 * A lot of the destinations are completely out of the blue. Turku, for example, is over 150 km away, while Lappeenranta is over 200 km away. Couldn't the same be said with any city in southern Finland? What's so different about flying to Turku or Lappeenranta instead of Tampere, for example?
 * Helsinki should only be a brief summary as most of the content is already in Helsinki Airport. This is way too budget traveller-centric and fine-grained to be in this article
 * As I've stated more than umpteen times before, Wikivoyage is for everyone, not just budget travellers; summaries should reflect this.

Any objections before I remove these two sentences outright?

-- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 04:12, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

 * I amended the paragraph somewhat. Helsinki Airport is hardly the place to discuss alternative airports, and some tips for budget travellers aren't off from anybody; this is just one short paragraph. Where should those suggestions go otherwise? The global Flying on a budget? I suppose those three airports at the time of writing had several budget flights (Ryanair withdrew from Tampere some years ago, I don't know the current situation but for Turku). I removed Lappeenranta, as I think they lost their flights too.

 * Turku and Tallinn are 2–4 hours away, which isn't much if the alternative is to transfer at some international hub. Also, many visitors to Helsinki come there to visit Finland in general, without knowing too much about it or its neighbours. I suppose seeing Tallinn and having a sea journey on the way may be a nice experience.

 * –LPfi (talk) 14:02, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

 * You might think of Central Europe when saying "some other city in southern Finland". Except Tampere, what other airports are there? 150 km isn't much for Finland, and closer than that a train will be faster than the plane, so no need for more airports. –LPfi (talk) 14:07, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

 * There aren't that many budget airline destinations to Helsinki, and the text was probably written in the mid-2010s or so when no budget airlines whatsoever flew here.
 * Back then said airports were the only ones in Finland served by budget airlines (and just a couple of destinations). Tallinn (a two hour ferry trip away with around ten ferry departures a day, and the airport 5 km from the port accessible by tram) had and still has notably more budget flights. Ypsilon (talk) 17:38, 19 December 2022 (UTC)

Violent crime common in Helsinki?
An IP user added a paragraph on crime. Is violent crime really common in Helsinki, on an international scale?

I also don't think we need to tell what the city or the police has done to combat crime. In Stay safe, it is the results that count. If the measures are very special, they belong in Understand, but I don't think anything that has been done really interests the average visitor, or even any significant subgroup, other than those who come to study the phenomenon and have their own better sources.

–LPfi (talk) 20:06, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

 * On a global scale, most definitely not. Ypsilon (talk) 20:45, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Public transport map should be updated
The public transport map should be updated. Since November 2022, the Länsimetro extension from Matinkylä to Kivenlahti is operational and no longer under construction. JIP (talk) 10:12, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

 * ✅ I made an updated version of the map. It will need to be updated again when they get the Rail Joker opened. --Ypsilon (talk) 14:08, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Jokeri light rail
After 4 years of construction, the Jokeri light rail has finally opened today. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with Helsinki's PT system and do not know which articles this needs to be updated in. Could anyone who knows Helsinki's PT better than me update all pages affected by the opening of the LRT line? TIA, -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 11:05, 21 October 2023 (UTC)

 * Should this also be included in the static map? -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 21:07, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, Ypsilon seems to be occupied off wiki the rest of the year, and I don't know enough about the public transport of the capital region to be much help (I usually move around the centre on foot, and visiting suburbs I take a single line as instructed). –LPfi (talk) 21:14, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It's the Helsinki/Eastern suburbs, Helsinki/Northern suburbs and Espoo. Yes it could be mentioned, even if it goes through parts of the city that have relatively little to see. I could write something about it in a couple of weeks or so. Ypsilon (talk) 19:39, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Helsinki


text:
Talk:Hengshui

Why not Hengshui?
Any particular reason not to call this "Hengshui"? (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:45, 6 June 2009 (EDT)

 * No, I think it should be Hengshui (WT-en) ClausHansen 10:41, 6 June 2009 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Hengshui


text:
Talk:Henry Hagg Lake

Merge, Park Template or Delete?
This is good information and we should find a place for it. I have put up a merge, as we do not do "bodies of water" yet. This could also be set up with a "park" template. What do others think? -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 14:01, 28 October 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Henry Hagg Lake


text:
Talk:Hentii

The Getty Thesaurus gives the name of this province as "Hentiy". --(WT-en) Evan 14:56, 30 October 2006 (EST)

 * I'd transcribe -ий into "-ij", but maybe we should just read and weep. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:13, 30 October 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Hentii


text:
Talk:Heraklion

Museum
I've revised the Heraklion Archeological Museum entry to replace the dead link with a current one, to expand the description of it, and to take out information about hours and tickets. The reason for the last change was that, as I added in the revised entry, the museum has been closed for renovation and its current status is hard to determine -- supposedly there is a temporary partial exhibit now open, but I haven't been able to confirm this or the date of full opening. If anyone has definite information about this, please add it. Meanwhile, I thought there's no point in keeping hours and admission information until we're sure what the Museum's status is. (WT-en) Sailsetter 12:03, 16 March 2008 (EDT)

 * We still have text saying it closed for renovation in 2006; that needs updating. Does anyone know the current status? Pashley (talk) 15:17, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Deletions
I've removed listings and links from the Sleep section for greekislands.gr and beeinnet.com, which are both clearly aggregator sites, rewritten the entry under Eat for the Heraklion Sailing Club restaurant to shorten it and remove touting, and under Work removed the listing for cyberlogic.gr, which is a business consultancy advertising its services for people who want to set up a business in Greece, which isn't relevant to the type of Work information travelers would look for. (WT-en) Sailsetter 18:51, 7 April 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Heraklion


text:
Talk:Herat

Comments
Can anyone give the location and any more info on the Hammans in the Do section? (WT-en) Cacahuate 14 October, 2006

ATM?
Does the ATM at Afghanistan International Bank (AIB) accept foreign cards with Mastercard or Visa logos? We should be certain of this if we're going to change the article from "no atms", it's a long way to journey to find that you don't have access to any cash – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 11:13, 27 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Presumably it is linked into AIB's system. Their machines in Kabul take international cards, so I would guess the one in Herat does too. (WT-en) Davidbstanley 17:37, 27 April 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Herat


text:
Talk:Herndon

OK, who'd have thunk it? Apparently there's some really crazy stuff going on in N. VA.

 * http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7244879/site/newsweek/
 * http://www.medill.northwestern.edu/~secure/docket/mt/archives/001409.php
 * http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-02-23-gang-salvador_x.htm

Now, I know a few things about staying safe around the gangs which were active in Chicago in the 1990s (keep your head down - avoid standing near adolescents - don't wear certain color combinations), but I have no idea what to write about staying safe around a displaced guerilla army. Can somebody fill this in? Is the answer avoid Herndon? What about people who have to go there?

Meanwhile I took out the condom note 'cause that's hardly specific to Herndon. I could see the point of adding it everywhere though if somebody wants to. -- (WT-en) Mark 04:35, 28 Jun 2005 (EDT)

title: Talk:Herndon


text:
Talk:Hershey

I think Hershey should link directly to the Pennsylvania city with the "if you're looking for the city in.." tag at the top for the Nebraska city. Surely Hershey is far more famous as a chocolate city than whatever the Nebraska city offers? (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 01:18, 14 March 2010 (EST)
 * I'll second that.(WT-en) Texugo 01:21, 14 March 2010 (EST)

A Commons file used on this page is missing permission
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page is missing permission information and may be deleted: You can see the details at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:51, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Zooamerica Plaza.jpg

 * Tripadvisor image. That's surely going to be deleted, and should be. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:34, 21 March 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hershey


text:
Talk:Hershey (disambiguation)

I think Hershey should link directly to the Pennsylvania city with the "if you're looking for the city in.." tag at the top for the Nebraska city. Surely Hershey is far more famous as a chocolate city than whatever the Nebraska city offers? (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 01:18, 14 March 2010 (EST)
 * I'll second that.(WT-en) Texugo 01:21, 14 March 2010 (EST)
 * I was just about to move this. Glad to see some agreement.  (WT-en) LtPowers 20:59, 11 July 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Hershey (disambiguation)


text:
Talk:Hershey (Nebraska)

I see that Hershey is very small, could this be upgraded to 'guide' status? (WT-en) BreezyB 00:32, 14 February 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Hershey (Nebraska)


text:
Talk:Hertfordshire

Is Hertfordshire really in East Anglia? I certainly didn't come across this when I lived in St. Albans.
 * I don't know first hand, but a google search seems to suggest that it is in East Anglia... (WT-en) Majnoona 12:58, 22 Feb 2006 (EST)
 * This map seems to confirm it. (WT-en) Majnoona 12:58, 22 Feb 2006 (EST)

Region articles
Region articles should not have detailed listings for points of interest, restaurants, shops, or hotels. Region article template says:
 * "Individual listings should be placed at the lowest available level of local page (a district of a huge city or the city page for a small town)."
 * "points of interest (such as those mentioned in "See" sections) should not usually have markers in region articles but should be linked to the bottom-level article where they have full listings."

This article needs a big clean up to remove the detailed listings. Ground Zero (talk) 12:05, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. Ground Zero (talk) 22:56, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit late, but thank you for cleaning up this article! Long overdue. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 23:03, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hertfordshire


text:
Talk:Hervey Bay

The Shark museum isn't acutally a Museum. This is some sick crab. And I'd say that shouldn't be listed here. therefore I deleted it. How can somebody state that he's recreating nature's balance by killing shark???

 * Just give the facts, and let the traveller decide. Many other wikivoyage articles have information on hunting, fishing, and eating all sorts of animals.  I agree it isn't a museum though, and I previously added the comment in the article that those expecting information on sharks or their conservation would be disappointed.  --(WT-en) inas 19:45, 9 June 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Hervey Bay


text:
Talk:Hesse

Regions
The present regions mentioned in the article do not appear to be useable for a subdivision of the state. I suggest we instead use this division in Northern Hesse, Central Hesse and Southern Hesse. Comments?, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 18:10, 11 August 2010 (EDT)

 * Agreed. Although they should be called North Hesse, Middle Hesse and South Hesse.--(WT-en) globe-trotter 15:40, 12 August 2011 (EDT)

2015 region reorganization
Yeah, aren't we supposed to make reasonable regions as a part of our quest of upping the ranking of Germany? Can subregions remain sad outlines (or worse) and only the cities need to be usable for the upper level to advance to a new status?

The current subdivision is absolutely laughable and meaningless. Hesse is naturally south-heavy and thus we could even do with one "northern Hesse" region probably, but e.g. Rheingau should be a region of Hesse proper IMHO.

Can we address that please? PrinceGloria (talk) 22:27, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

 * I have looked at this before be failed to see an obvious new split. The obvious geographical and economical splits cross state boundaries which is something we decided against a year or so ago. The Rhein-Main area would be a clear one for Wiesbaden, Frankfurt and Offenbach but does really also include Mainz and Aschaffenburg (wow, that really does not have an entry!). Other geographical splits are also cross state, such as Lahn and Taunus which also cover RLP. Agree with your comment about southern heavy region split. Could we make a Odenwald and include Darmstadt in that? --Traveler100 (talk) 06:59, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Suggestion: --Traveler100 (talk) 07:08, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Create Rhine-Main area under Hesse which includes Frankfurt, Wiesbaden, Offenbach, Rüsselsheim etc (and possibly Darmstadt). Mention that the infrastructure (i.e. transport system) also includes Mainz but leave that under Rhenish Hesse.
 * Rheingau move under Hesse
 * Odenwald - extend the definitiion a little so it includes the Bergstraße towns and maybe Darmstadt.
 * Middle Hesse
 * North Hesse (maybe merge in Middle Hesse?

 * Middle and North together IMHO unless suddenly more destination guides crop up. I was wondering if Odenwald should ot be called Bergstrasse, it is a much more known name IMHO. On the fence regarding lumping all of the large cities into Rhein-Mein or leaving Darmstadt with Odenwald/Bergstrasse and Wiesbaden with Rheingau. Aren't any Kreise north of Frankfurt really suburbs of it, or does Frankfurt city limits cover all of immediate suburbs? PrinceGloria (talk) 07:13, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

 * How about redefining South Hesse as Darmstadt and everything south, i.e. Odenwald and Bergstraße. I would move Wiesbaden from Rheingau to Rhine-Main. Towns north of Frankfurt (Taunus), need to look at each individually. Agree merge Middle (and East) into North until there are more article in the area. --Traveler100 (talk) 08:08, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

 * I would rather we gave meaningful names to regions rather than "North", "South" etc. - can we decide on something for the South? PrinceGloria (talk) 08:27, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I would call it Odenwald which would include the Bergstraße. For North Hesse, as this is the mountainous area how about High Hesse or as there are a number of Kur towns and is an historic area of Prussia may be Kurhessen.--Traveler100 (talk) 08:38, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Kurhessen is a name from the Nazi era, so I'd refrain from using it. If no better option is found, I am OK with North Hesse for the time being. Odenwald is also OK with me. I guess that's it and it is clear which Kreis goes where, except for Gross-Gerau. On the one hand, we could cut it in half using Bundesautobahn 60 (just under Ruesselsheim) and give GG proper to Darmstadt (Odenwald), to which it is geographically close. OTOH, there are more frequent trains taking not much more time to Frankfurt than to Darmstadt, so maybe we should consider GG a part of the Rhein-Mein agglomeration. PrinceGloria (talk) 09:10, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
 * OK so I think I have completed the re-org, but would be good if someone checks it all. Is a better distribution of article. --Traveler100 (talk) 13:07, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Fab, Vielen Dank! That said, what happened to Odenwald, I thought it was a viable name for the south? PrinceGloria (talk) 18:39, 3 May 2015 (UTC)
 * as we have not come up with a better name for North Hesse, yet, then I though may as well keep South Hesse. Could move it though, not to much effort. --Traveler100 (talk) 18:49, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Region discussion needs reopening
Following towns have been removed from North Hesse Can understand the reasoning as they are not "very north", but what do we do now to fix the orphaned locations? Create a number sub-region if so what should it be called or rename North Hesse to something else so we can make it a region with more than 4 locations? --Traveler100 (talk) 20:18, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Alsfeld - historic town centre with a nubmer of timber-framed buildings
 * Bad Orb
 * Fulda - much more than just tyres, the city is full of sights to behold and hides its size very well behind a small-town facade
 * Gelnhausen - attracting visitors during the annual Schellenmarkt festival
 * Giessen - a university town famous for an elephant loo. Seriously.
 * Herborn - half-timbered old town and a millennium-old cathedral
 * Limburg an der Lahn - even more half-timbered houses
 * Marburg - a picturesque historic university town with a castle perched atop a hill
 * Wetzlar - if you still want more half-timbered houses, you will find them there
 * I think North Hesse can be kept as is, but we need to make the region divisions and boundaries more clear both to the benefit of our readers and editors. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:26, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I tend to agree with keeping as is. I prefer to work with the method of adding city locations first, then when a region gets too large a list then reorganise. --Traveler100 (talk) 08:53, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Structure as of Jan. 2016
With district proposed split of North/East/Middle
 * North Hesse the central mountain area of Germany
 * (part of : Lahn Valley, Westerwald, Taunus, Spessart, Vogelsberg)
 * Districts (north) : Wetteraukreis,,  Landkreis Kassel, Schwalm-Eder-Kreis, Werra-Meißner-Kreis, Waldeck-Frankenberg. Part of Rheingau-Taunus-Kreis
 * Bad Hersfeld
 * Kassel
 * Witzenhausen
 * Reinhardswald
 * Districts (East) :Vogelsbergkreis,Fulda (district), Landkreis Hersfeld-Rotenburg,
 * Fulda
 * Districts (Middle) : Gießen (district), Lahn-Dill-Kreis, Limburg-Weilburg, Marburg-Biedenkopf, Main-Kinzig-Kreis,
 * Alsfeld
 * Bad Orb
 * Gelnhausen
 * Giessen
 * Herborn
 * Limburg an der Lahn
 * Marburg
 * Wetzlar
 * Rhine-Main
 * (part of : Taunus)
 * Districts :Hochtaunuskreis, Offenbach (district). Parts of Groß-Gerau (district), Main-Taunus-Kreis
 * Frankfurt am Main
 * Bad Homburg
 * Hanau
 * Kelsterbach
 * Langen
 * Mörfelden
 * Neu-Isenburg
 * Oberursel
 * Offenbach
 * Rüsselsheim
 * Seligenstadt
 * Wiesbaden
 * Frankfurt Airport
 * Rheingau
 * Districts: Part of Rheingau-Taunus-Kreis
 * Assmannshausen
 * Eltville
 * Geisenheim
 * Oestrich-Winkel
 * Rüdesheim
 * Lorch am Rhein
 * Wiesbaden
 * Rhine-Taunus Nature Park
 * South Hesse
 * (parts of : Wetterau, Vogelsberg, Spessart, Odenwald, Bergstraße, Hessisches Ried)
 * Districts : Kreis Bergstraße, Landkreis Darmstadt-Dieburg, Odenwaldkreis. Parts of Groß-Gerau (district)
 * Darmstadt
 * Bensheim (Hessische Bergstraße)
 * Lorsch
 * Dreieich (Hessisches Ried)
 * Erbach (Odenwald)
 * Erzhausen (Hessisches Ried)
 * Heppenheim (Hessische Bergstraße)
 * Hirschhorn (Neckar)
 * Michelstadt (Odenwald)
 * Neckarsteinach am Neckar
 * Reinheim
 * Roßdorf (Hessisches Ried)
 * Zwingenberg (Hessische Bergstraße)

Districts of Hesse
Not saying should organise by administrative districts (geographical regions are more relevant to visitors) but for reference:-
 * 1) Kreis Bergstraße (Heppenheim) (HP)
 * 2) Landkreis Darmstadt-Dieburg (Darmstadt) (DA, DI)
 * 3) Groß-Gerau (district) (Groß-Gerau) (GG)
 * 4) Hochtaunuskreis (Bad Homburg) (HG, USI)
 * 5) Main-Kinzig-Kreis (Gelnhausen) (MKK, GN, HU, SLÜ)
 * 6) Main-Taunus-Kreis (Hofheim am Taunus) (MTK)
 * 7) Odenwaldkreis (Erbach) (ERB)
 * 8) Offenbach (district)|Offenbach]] (Dietzenbach) (OF)
 * 9) Rheingau-Taunus-Kreis (Bad Schwalbach) (RÜD,SWA)
 * 10) Wetteraukreis (Friedberg) (FB, BÜD)
 * 11) Gießen (district) (Gießen) (GI)
 * 12) Lahn-Dill-Kreis (Wetzlar) (LDK)
 * 13) Limburg-Weilburg (Limburg) (LM, WEL)
 * 14) Marburg-Biedenkopf (Marburg) (MR, BID)
 * 15) Vogelsbergkreis (Lauterbach) (VB)
 * 16) Fulda (district) (Fulda) (FD)
 * 17) Landkreis Hersfeld-Rotenburg (Bad Hersfeld) (HEF, ROF)
 * 18) Landkreis Kassel (Kassel) (KS, HOG,WOH)
 * 19) Schwalm-Eder-Kreis (Homberg (Efze)) (HR)
 * 20) Werra-Meißner-Kreis (Eschwege) (ESW, WIZ)
 * 21) Waldeck-Frankenberg (Korbach) (KB, FKB, WA)

Independent cities:
 * 1) Darmstadt (DA)
 * 2) Frankfurt am Main (F)
 * 3) Kassel (KS)
 * 4) Offenbach am Main (OF)
 * 5) Wiesbaden (WI)

Note I do not want to give the impression we should create regions for each district Hesse, but they provide some reference for discussions. I do not Germany to go the way some States of the USA have gone on this site with a region for each county and a list of twenty odd tiny places that are either red links or ,worse, pages with no content. --Traveler100 (talk) 08:51, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

Alternative propose
Proposal from User:Feuermond16 to create a East Hesse and a West Hesse along the lines of this map. --Traveler100 (talk) 08:59, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Sorry for writing in German. Zugegeben, die Einteilung von Hessen nach geographischen, touristischen oder administrativen Regionen ist nicht einfach. Genaue Grenzen gibt es oft nicht, trotzdem kann man grobe Regionen einteilen. Mit der oben stehenden Einteilung habe ich das Problem, dass die touristische oder administrative Bezeichnung Nordhessen (North Hesse) dazu benutzt wurde, um eine geographische Region zu bezeichnen, die den Norden von Hessen abgrenzen soll. Das kann man so nicht machen. Deshalb mein Vorschlag, nach der von mir bereits verlinkten Wetterkarte des Hessischen Rundfunks zu gehen.
 * Demnach würde Nordhessen (North Hesse) aus dem Landkreis Kassel (18), dem Schwalm-Eder-Kreis (19), dem Werra-Meißner-Kreis (20), dem Landkreis Waldeck-Frankenberg (21) und der Stadt Kassel (KS) bestehen. Zu Osthessen (East Hesse) würden der Vogelsbergkreis (15), der Landkreis Fulda (16) und der Landkreis Hersfeld-Rotenburg (17) gehören, zu Mittelhessen (Middle Hesse) der Landkreis Gießen (11), der Lahn-Dill-Kreis (12), der Landkreis Limburg-Weilburg (13) und der Landkreis Marburg-Biedenkopf (14). Streitpunkt wäre hier der Vogelsbergkreis, der theoretisch sowohl Mittel-, als auch Osthessen zugeordnet werden könnte. Bei Mittelhessen würde Osthessen dann nur noch auch der Rhön (länderübergreifende Region) und Waldhessen bestehen, wäre aber immer noch groß genug und auch sinnvoll weiterhin abzugrenzen (spezielle Kultur sowie katholische Religion). Dem Rheingau würde ich dagegen dem Rhein-Main-Gebiet zuschlagen (Frankfurt Rhine-Main), da zu klein für eine eigene Region. Südhessen wäre dann nördlich abgegrenzt inklusive Groß-Gerau (3), Darmstadt (DA) und den Landkreis Darmstadt-Dieburg (2).
 * Dies wären also fünf Regionen. Denke nicht, dass dies nicht zu viele Unterteilungen wären (vorher waren es vier).
 * MfG -- Feuermond16 (talk) 11:23, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I think this would create regions with too few articles at the moment. If a number of more Hesse towns were added (with real content) I think this split could work, but currently middle Hesse would have little below it. Also do no think South Hesse should be split by districts, Rüsselsheim is more Rhein-Main character than the towns of Bergsttraße and Odenwald. Would also keep Rheingau separate from Rhein-Main, this is a tourist and wine area with enough points of interest to be stand-alone and is distinctive from the industry and commerce area around Frankfurt. --Traveler100 (talk) 13:33, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I think we all need to avoid running into the error of subdivisions that are too small and contain towns of little note or importance to visitors from further afield. I know myself and Traveler100 are not always on the same page with regards to the treatment of rural areas, but we have to keep in mind who we are writing for. I have seen articles on small towns in Germany whose name I myself have barely heard where things are listed as "see" Listings that I would find utterly unremarkable - if it's more than one church in a village of 5000 one of them might not be worth the hype. Now don't get me wrong, in many cases listing these things is still better than not doing it, but how many readers would be interested in the currently redlinking destinations in Hesse and still know too little German to read the articles in German? Personally I think we could also have handled the places around  Frankfurt airport that most people will only ever visit because business takes them there or their airport hotel is technically there a bit better. As for the proposal at hand, Hesse seems to mostly consist of the dense and well connected South centered on Frankfurt and a much less densely populated and a bit worse connected North. If people really cared for all the finer details, they can always read de-WV. And as for slicing and dicing Germany - there really is no "right" or "wrong" way to do it objectively. Even the current Bundesländer separate similar regions (East and North Frisian,  Swabia) and put things into one Bundesland that are rather dissimilar  (Baden Württemberg, Bavaria and Franconia, the South and North of Niedersachsen). Whether a traveler who does not speak German  (otherwise they would read de-WV) really cares about the Catholic - Protestant divide within Hesse, I don't know. I know I myself have an urban bias as by and large cities are more interesting places. The problem is : with very rare exceptions,  so does en-WV. There is one region of New Mexico that is currently nominated for being featured that is an exception to this rule. Most likely because the author(s) know the area rather well. Anyway to make one last point, we have to strike a balance between locals who think a difference between Eltersdorf and Büchenbach matters and readers from all over the world who want to get concise, exact information on where to stay, what to do and which places to skip with a time budget that is likely to be limited. We do have similar problems for the US where way too many counties have their own articles. Which would be bad enough, but they are often not fleshed out in the least and contain redlinks or sub-articles that are little more than a skeleton. Now your proposed subdivision of Hesse may have merit, but based on the number and state of the places that leaves in the new North Hesse, I am inclined to doubt its usefulness for non - German readers. Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:55, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

 * For me it is okay when you can life with wrong named regions, I do not write so much in the "English Wikivoyage" (also in the future). But then write in the article explicity that it is about the North of Hesse, and not about the region North Hesse! -- Feuermond16 (talk) 19:44, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

 * I don't think that there is really an equivalent to the distinction between "Nordhessen" and "nördliches Hessen" which seems to be what you are saying, if I don't get you wrong. However, I have no problem to rename the article Northern Hesse North of Hesse or any other term consensus determines. And I really don't think the names are "wrong" in the sense that there really isn't an established English name for the non-historic (meaning those that aren't Hesse-Kassel, Hesse-Darmstadt and the likes) subdivisons of Hesse. As for your contributions on en-WV, that is of course entirely up to you, but feel free to drop a not on my talk page (or anywhere else where I or someone else can see it) if we are getting something wrong about Germany or any other topic you know more about than the average en-WV user. Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:44, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Issues that still need fixing
So I think, we just list the things that are still missing here and can still be improved upon. According to what was mentioned by other users and my own observations it would be

Best wishes Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:08, 11 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The regions, which are partly empty and might need an overhaul
 * The lack of a lead
 * The Understand section, which might need trimming down / stylistic improvements or even expansion
 * The strange "other destinations" list
 * The get around section

 * With regard to regions:
 * North Hesse
 * Lead - just a sentence (still)
 * Understand - could do
 * Destinations - OK I think
 * Map - none (we could use a dynamic map with shading mask for now I'd say)
 * Get in - quite OK
 * Get around - some more explanation on how public transportation works could be handy
 * See - listings should go to particular destinations or become "otehr destinations", this needs to be descriptive as to where to look for what kind of attractions rather than a laundry list. STILL NOT ADDRESSED
 * Itineraries - do we have any? If not, remove heading.
 * Do - needs descriptions of local events (music, performance, traditional, sports)
 * Eat - needs expansion
 * Drink - nada
 * Go next - could do
 * Rhine-Main - quite stubby but not that bad, expansion could be made after city articles are expanded to summarize their contents and point towards them for particular types of attractions
 * Map - I'd add one based on split into Kreise and Staedte, but I guess it needs editing to highlight the precise part we are covering and clearly show neighbouring ones as not covered by this region
 * See - needs to be descriptive
 * Get in - I'd move the train distance list to Frankfurt
 * Go next - expansion needed
 * Rheingau
 * Lead - since just a sentence
 * Destinations - I would mremove redlinks and add one-liners
 * Map - none (we could use a dynamic map with shading mask for now I'd say)
 * Other destinations - remove? the region is an "Other destination" in itself
 * Understand - still nothing
 * Talk - seems unnecessary
 * Get in - reformulate as description, including info on which airports and other main hubs outside of the regions are handy, and road connections
 * Get around - needs description of local public transport arrangements and possibility to drive and bike around rather than mention of one bus line
 * Hiking trail - to itineraries
 * See - listings should go to destinations, this needs to be descriptive as to where to look for what kind of attractions rather than a laundry list
 * Do - needs same approach as See + descriptions of local events (music, performance, traditional, sports)
 * Eat - needs expansion
 * Drink - nada
 * Stay safe - do we need that?
 * Go next - attractive one-liners needed
 * South Hesse
 * Lead - just a sentence
 * Destinations - needs one-liners, I would merge Cities and Villages, remove redlinks and we'll have exactly 9
 * Map - none (we could use a dynamic map with shading mask for now I'd say)
 * Other destinations - I would expand on the Taunus to describe what it is and why it's worth exploring it
 * Understand - nada
 * Talk - seems unnecessary
 * Get in - nada
 * Get around - nada
 * See - listing should go to Darmstadt, this needs to be descriptive as to where to look for what kind of attractions rather than a laundry list.
 * Itineraries - a description of the Bergstrasse would be in order
 * Do - nada, needs same approach as See + descriptions of local events (music, performance, traditional, sports)
 * Eat - needs expansion
 * Drink - nada
 * Stay safe - do we need that?
 * Go next - nada
 * Particular destinations also need help - I guess we can discuss those in every region's page as there are too many to discuss them all here.
 * Do we make next week the Hesse week? PrinceGloria (talk) 08:02, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

 * While I agree that the subregions of Hesse can be much improved upon, I wonder whether we should not start with a polishing up of Hesse, as the vast majority of users will land there first (or at a city article) and only branch out to subregions later if at all. Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:54, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

 * Whichever way you prefer. I am just not THAT familiar with Hesse, so I guessed that doing regions and destinations will give me a broader overview to be able to more informedly contribute to what essentially is a summary of Hesse divided into our categories. PrinceGloria (talk) 13:07, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

 * As for the stay safe sections: Germany in general is as safe as safe gets. And as it is neither close to major mountains nor any coast, natural hazards are negligible at best. According to some statistics, Frankfurt am Main is one of the cities with the highest crime rate per capita in Germany, but this is mostly due to three factors: 1.) it has a high proportion of people working but not living there (~500 000 inhabitants, ~ 200 000 workers moving in from the suburbs every day) 2.) It is a major transportation hub with stuff like drugs passing through and a higher chance of being detected there than elsewhere 3.) the Bahnhofsviertel has a shoddy reputation (which it is slowly losing) due to being a center for prostitution and intravenous drug use. That being said, even Frankfurt is generally safe, at least compared to similar cities in the US and German police have a very no-nonsense approach towards guns or even knives. As is once half-jokingly shown in "Sherlock" the fastest way to call the police is to fire a gun. This is especially true for Frankfurt am Main, and in that city even more so for the supposedly "dangerous" Bahnhofsviertel. So to make it short: Other than a "It's safe unless you are particularly unlucky or an utter moron" I don't think we need a "stay safe" section in the subregions... Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:27, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

So; PrinceGloria, Traveler100, a week has passed, how far are we done and what remains to be done? Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:02, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

 * Not far, seems like there's not much love for Hesse around :( - this is what I feared rushing will lead to. I would still suggest we put the little effort needed to shape up those regions since they'll probably wait quite a bit until somebody takes to it again. PrinceGloria (talk) 16:06, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

This article needs a regionmap!
So according to this edit at least one person seems to either not know the limits of North Hesse or there is some sort of disagreement on this issue. This could be remedied by a clear and concise region map that eliminates any potential for overlap. Do we have an editor who could make a suitable map? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:46, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * A map cannot be done if someone has decided to start reorganising the regions. We did push the definition of North Hesse a little to have reasonable number of articles in each area. Maybe we need a middle hesse? --Traveler100 (talk) 20:03, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't think subdividing Hesse even further is the way to go (apparently, de-WV has a bit of a geographical focus in the area among its userbase). Personally I think North Hesse is as good a term as any to name the rather sparsely populated Northern parts of Hesse. and I don't see much sense in a cutoff point that is too northward... Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:23, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh no we don't need a Middle Hesse. The current division serves us well. The North of Hesse is sparsely populated and hence seems big, but in reality sees the least tourist traffic. PrinceGloria (talk) 22:39, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
 * So do we undo the edits to remove the orphaned page problem or wait for response from user who started the reorganisation of the region? --Traveler100 (talk) 22:45, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Remind me which solution (if any) we found for this issue... Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:28, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Wikidata items for dynamic map
Below is the map with all Wikidata items for the districts. This should simplify the work in case we want to change the district set-up in the future. The tool Wikidata Extractor has been used to create the mapshapes.--Renek78 (talk) 17:56, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Where do the boundaries of the regions lie?
Could we have them show up in the dynamic map, please? Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:57, 31 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi Hobbitschuster, I coloured the Landkrieβe on the dynamic map to see if they approximate the current regions. A couple of issues I see is I think Rheingau is too big (I'm guessing it's only the southern part of the Landkrieβe) and Hanau, which we have in the Rhine-Main region, shows up in North Hesse. I'm not familiar with Hesse at all so I don't know if the Landkrieβe make sense as the basis for subregions. If they aren't, boundaries need to be defined before a map can be drawn. -Shaundd (talk) 22:11, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Hesse - some notes and some questions
I recently created two new articles in Hesse, mostly by translating from de-wv and using wikidata and wikipedia for listings. The articles are Friedberg (Hessen) and Bad Nauheim, both in a region known to Germans as Wetterau. I put them in North Hesse - probably wrongly - because the region map at Hesse doesn't exist and there is - to my knowledge no unambiguous subdivision of Hesse and de-wv does not have a non-overlapping subdivision of Hesse either. This is highly frustrating for me as an editor but also potentially a disservice for our readers who are likely to get confused. At Talk:Hesse one can observe several attempts to subdivide which however seem to have yielded little. User:Feuermond16 had weighed in but for some reason or other soon quit the discussion, but I think their local knowledge could be of use. What do you think should be done about Hesse? Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:03, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * personally I trust your ability to plunge forward and come to optimal results. Wish I had my dynamic map chops to assist on that part, and hope our colleagues proficient on them will help here. Ibaman (talk) 18:24, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Anybody else willing to weigh in? Hobbitschuster (talk) 10:42, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * This seems to be a problem stretching back to the 2000s. If the regions' boundaries aren't even defined, then they need redefining. If you're capable of doing that, do so. I don't really understand some of your post so it may not be feasible, but if you can't find a way to make the regions on en.wikivoyage work or don't know the state well enough to redraft, why not just copy de:Hessen, or else liaise with that articles' authors to reach a crosswiki consensus? I'm afraid there won't be many people on en.wikivoyage who know enough to comment. I'm confused just from writing this.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:36, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately the subdivsion on de-wv is not all that clear and there is considerable overlap between some of the regions... I mean I could simply put all the "dots" on the map that have wv articles and then draw an essentially arbitrary line, but that wouldn't be all that satisfactory... Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:38, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Does the Norhessischer Verkehrsverbund cover all/almost all of the cities currently named in that article? If so, then that could be a real-world basis for our division.  WhatamIdoing (talk) 15:56, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * It certainly doesn't cover Friedberg (Hesse) or Bad Nauheim. If I am not mistaken, the term often used for Gießen and Wetzlar is "Mittelhessen"... Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:02, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi Hobbitschuster, I coloured in the Landkrieβe on the dynamic map at Talk:Hesse to approximate the current regions. If this division makes sense, then we could use it. If using the Landkreise doesn't make sense, we've got to come up with boundaries on our own. In which case, I agree with Ibaman and think you should run with it if you have ideas. -Shaundd (talk) 22:20, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for coloring the Landkreise. I think it is quite recognizable that "North Hesse is a bit too large in relation to the other regions, but I'm still not sure how to proceed from there. Imho Bad Nauheim and Friedberg (Hessen) should be put together in one region, but only one is served by the Frankfurt S-Bahn, so putting both in Rhine Main might be a bad idea... Giving them both their own region is overkill as there is not likely to be more in that region on en-wv for some time... Hobbitschuster (talk) 11:48, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I read through all the Hesse region discussions and I'd say the one that was implemented is the 2015 discussion that created the Rheingau/Rhine-Main/South Hesse split we currently have in the south. Unfortunately, it didn't clearly lay out what to do with towns close to Frankfurt, it just says "Towns north of Frankfurt (Taunus), need to look at each individually." So now we have towns like Bad Homburg and Hanau part of Rhine-Main while Bad Orb, even though it's in the same Landkreise as Hanau, is not. According to Wikipedia, the Frankfurt Rhine-Main includes the Wetterau, Main-Kinzig and Hochtaunus, so maybe the easiest thing is the extend Rhine-Main to include all of those three Landkreise? North Hesse would be the Landkreise north of them (and north of Rheingau). I doubt it's perfect but it solves the issue of where to put the two articles you created and provides a clear boundary until a better structure can be agreed. -Shaundd (talk) 22:36, 15 May 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hesse


text:
Talk:Hexham

The two anonymous edits (62.252.224.18) were made by me. (WT-en) Water 16:25, 8 April 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Hexham


text:
Talk:Hialeah

Is this a District of Miami? If so, it should be moved to Miami/Hialeah... (WT-en) Majnoona 00:35, 20 July 2006 (EDT)
 * It is a major suburb, indepdent city, but interconnected to the Miami area, the second largest city in the metropolitan area, county, and the 5th largest in the state. It's mostly residential, actually, it's overwhelmingly residential and has very little tourist appeal.  -- 66.176.22.117 23:17, 5 February 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Hialeah


text:
Talk:Hickory

Stub no more?

 * I took out the stub disclaimer -- I think you're right, this is very close to getting there. It desperately needs some Manual of style work, though -- the attraction listings, restaurant listings, and the like are way off base. (Not that they look bad -- it's just nice when Wikivoyage looks like Wikivoyage.) --(WT-en) Evan 10:46, 7 Jan 2004 (EST)

Ooh wow! All this because someone dumped some furniture in a restaurant in Charlotte and I needed to put it somewhere! -(WT-en) phma 22:43, 9 Jan 2004 (EST)

Where and what is Hickory? - This may seem a silly question, but there is no mention of its size or even a link to the state, region or country article. I presume it is United States of America, but I don't know. Can someone add a simple sentence to the top of the article like: Hickory is a {type of place} in {region or state} in {country}. (WT-en) Huttite 03:25, 16 Mar 2004 (EST)

title: Talk:Hickory


text:
Talk:High Atlas

As a travel destination, the High Atlas mountains should be distinct from the Atlas Mountains in general (which seems a bit too broad to be a travel article...unless it merely links a person to the individual travel destinations within the Atlas mountains themselves). Hence I have taken away the redirect link and set up the outline for the High Atlas article.

title: Talk:High Atlas


text:
Talk:High Plains

Useful research links
http://www.texasptmc.org

What counties are in this region?
I wonder what counties are considered part of the High Plains region? The reason I ask is that when researching the placement of Texas cities and towns, Wikipedia and other references will identify which county and state a place is in, but not which tourist region. For example: I deduce that Dallam County is in this region only because the county seat,Dalhart, is already listed here. However, it would be nice to know for certain which other counties are also here. I have spent ages looking at maps trying to guess which region a Texas town is in, based on the shape of the region matching the county border, but not knowing for certain that I have it right. - (WT-en) Huttite 21:32, 12 December 2009 (EST)

 * Texugo's map here shows the divisions quite clearly. It might be nice to spread bits of that map around to the seven top level regions of Texas. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:15, 12 December 2009 (EST)

 * Thanks for that, though comparing that to this map from the (Texas) Panhandle Tourism Marketing Council suggests they think High Plains make up almost all of the Panhandle. My plea was not only for a map but the county names as well, so I know where to draw the line based on text. And not need to consult a fairly indistinct and featureless map that a rather vague line has been drawn on. From these maps and accompaning descriptions, I gather that: Dallam, Sherman, Hansford, Ochiltree, Lipscomb, Hartley, Moore, Hutchinson, Roberts, Hemphill, Oldham, Potter, Carson, Gray, Wheeler, Deaf Smith, Randall, Armstrong, Donley, and Collingsworth counties are in the High Plains region. (Which leaves Parmer, Castro, Swisher, Briscoe, Hall and Childress counties to go into other regions.) - (WT-en) Huttite 05:39, 13 December 2009 (EST)

 * The way I defined the region was a horizontal line extending west from where the Red River hits the Oklahoma border, which essentially bisects Parmer, Castro, Swisher, Briscoe, Hall and Childress counties. Being from Texas (and the High Plains in particular), I have never given much thought to county borders when traveling around the state-- there are simply too many, and no one thinks to themselves "I'm going to visit X county". And you'd be hard-pressed to find a Texan that could accurately locate even 10% of Texas counties on a map. The fact is that most of Briscoe, Hall and Childress counties are technically not High Plains because they are down off the Caprock. As for Parmer, Castro, and Swisher counties, they are both High Plains and Llano Estacado. The problem is that people's usage of those terms overlaps quite a bit in the western half of the Panhandle-- "High Plains" is sometimes used as far south as Lubbock and Llano Estacado is sometimes used as far north as Amarillo. Any line drawn (including the one from the Panhandle Tourism Council) is going to be a little artificial, though it's still necessary to do so for organizational purposes. If you'd like to propose a specific change to this border, I'm all ears, but just keep in mind that there is no single "right" way to do it based on common usage of the terms. (WT-en) Texugo 02:00, 14 December 2009 (EST)

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 * Mule IMG 0391.JPG

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title: Talk:High Plains