text:
Talk:Margarita Island

Car rentals
Due to an ongoing edit war I've replaced the listings for individual car rental companies with a single paragraph that provides more than enough information for most travelers. Project:External links provides some justification ("Typically we don't provide details of national car rental chains in local guides. Providing details at the national level, and mentioning the name and location at local level is sufficient if required."). If people feel that there really is a need to describe these companies individually please discuss it here first, but given the edit wars that have been going on I fail to see how listing individual companies is enough of a benefit to travelers to justify the time it takes to continually patrol & revert edits to this article. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 11:58, 17 October 2010 (EDT) Thanks Ryan. The phone numbers for the companies listed by the anonymous poster were bogus. GRC has an office at the PMV airport and the anonymous poster was changing the posts to reflect that was not accurate. The anonymous poster is nothing more then a spammer. Jan and I worked to make sure I was within the guidelines and I would hope that you can see what the spammer is doing while permitting the listing back. Thanks (WT-en) MustSee 13:38, 17 October 2010 (EDT) Hi Ryan, I noticed the http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:External_links#What_not_to_link_to states " Rental cars operators, in cities where they are common (10 or more operating in the city). Typically we don't provide details of national car rental chains in local guides. Providing details at the national level, and mentioning the name and location at local level is sufficient if required." Since GRC is the only car rental agency in Playa El Yaque, if there are no objections, the link can be to placed under the Playa El Yaque portion. Thanks (WT-en) MustSee 17:35, 18 October 2010 (EDT) ^5's to Felix505!! No one can complain now!! Thanks, (WT-en) MustSee 18:23, 18 October 2010 (EDT)
 * OK let's try and grow this article now rather than just delete bits. In regard to the rental car listings please do not delete any of them without first listing a good reason for that delete in the discussion section on Rental Cars. A deletion of article content needs to have a good substantial reason, just not liking the operator is not good enough. The car rental industry has a notorious reputation for gouging customers and that activity occurs on a global level with the major players, it is certainly not something unique to small operators on tropical islands. If the info in the article is just out of date or the contact details are incorrect then set them right, don't just delete. If they have gone bust or just have one car they are renting occasionally then maybe that is a good reason to delete them but please state why here on the discussion page. Personally I think the list is too long but maybe now it can be edited down to exclude some of the less significant operators. Certainly there must be more happening on this island than car rental activity. Lets try and get the focus of the rental cars now and onto the article content as it is severely wanting attention. (WT-en) felix 04:44, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

 * There was another edit today calling out one of the car rental agencies as a scammer, so rather than repeatedly revisiting this issue I've removed the individual listings again. Project:External links is very clear about locations with multiple car rental agencies, and in cases of dispute the accepted site policies should prevail. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 13:08, 24 August 2011 (EDT)

 * (WT-en) Ryan it appears a blow through user left a comment, just making trouble and was given so much credence by you that all 8 of the rental car companies were removed quoting "remove car rental list per Wikivoyage:External links#What not to link to)". The blow through user posted "No car rental on this site are crooks". Did you happen to know that between July 15 and September 15 is summer high season in Margarita? Things can and do book up solid, it is not unusual. Why remove all of the work that went into getting that section accurate because of a troublemaker?

 * Correct me if I am wrong, but does it not require that 10 or more operators for "avoidance"? To obliterate all the work that went into getting things portrayed accurately, due to a trouble maker, seems unwiki like IMO. Is there any way to restore the work that was done?

 * Thanks (WT-en) MustSee

 * Since there are more than 10 car rental agencies operating on this island the policy about including individual agencies in the article is very clear. If an exception is warranted then a case can be made, but my take on it is that someone looking for a car rental will have no trouble finding one, and the article states as much.  This "blow through user" may have been a "troublemaker", but there have been numerous questionable edits to the rental listings in the past months so it doesn't seem worthwhile making a policy exception to include listings that are generating edits that question the legitimacy of the listed companies. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 12:28, 31 August 2011 (EDT)

 * I tend toward the viewpoint expressed by (WT-en) MustSee. This recent disruptive edit may well be just a blow through making some trouble, which indeed it appears they were successful in doing. The article appears to have remained quite stable for 11 months or so now. It also seems this island may have a few wobbly operators and the traveller may benefit from having some established operators identified to assist in cutting through the fog created by multiple cross over agencies and provider names that may be potentially misleading to a visitor. I recall that internet searches for providers on that island were potentially misleading when I looked into it last year. There was some considerable effort made to tidy up the previous issues in the article. I recall that (WT-en) MustSee works for one of the rental car providers and subsequent to editing conventions being explained he set about making some very positive improvements in the article including to the listing of rental providers and taxi operators, as well as many other more general contributions. My take on this is that recent problematic edit was most likely provided by a local rental provider rather than traveller feedback. Under the circumstances I think it might be preferable to just reinstate the article as it was and keep an eye on it for any further such edits. -- (WT-en) felix 13:42, 31 August 2011 (EDT)

 * I'm still not convinced that this merits an exception - from the old list, it sounds like the international companies are well represented and there wasn't anything that seemed to distinguish the local operators - but I've added a request for further comment in the pub at Pub. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 19:49, 31 August 2011 (EDT)

 * I think the policy linked by Ryan is the best arbiter (any potential "blow through" blowhards shouldn't matter one way or the other). We really only list individual car rental agencies when there are only a few, particularly if they are hard to find or uncommonly used. That does not seem to be the case here? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:14, 31 August 2011 (EDT)

 * Of the 7 operators listed previously there were 5 listed with offices or a kiosk at the airport. The other 2 have street addresses elsewhere (in Polamar). It should also be noted that we do not normally list the major national renters at this level, mentioning them in the section is normally considered sufficient, as in this edit. The extensive review last year sought to remove the shadow operators, especially those lacking an apparent physical address. The destination receives visitors both at the airport and at the ferry dock. It seems apparent that the traveller should be able to find sufficient providers at the airport upon arrival. The situation for those arriving by sea is less clear to me and they may not be as well provided for. The internet pre-booking situation is a bit of a minefield. The providers appear to be a mish-mash of agents and bookers with many appearing to only have virtual fleets. Providing the list in the article may possibly offer a little more certainty for those requiring a car rental.  (WT-en) Ryan (talk) is most certainly correct in regard to Project:External links (more than ten car rental companies available at the location) and he is also familiar with the history of this matter as he was directly involved in dealing with the content and editing issues last year. When endeavoring to clarify the list late last year it was difficult to find more than the 7 listed car rental providers on the island as the others, although numerous, were lacking sufficient contact details. Most of them were at that time working from an email address and/or a cellphone number and were of indeterminate physical locality. Hence my concern that although there are more than 10 operators on the island they are not of a standard that we would normally list here. Certainly taxi and car rental listings seem to cause more trouble than they are worth in a lot of articles. I did think that we had sorted things out fairly well in this article but both Ryan and Peter are entirely correct regarding WT policies in this matter. The only reason I can see to list them in the article is that the car rental market is potentially misleading at the destination. This is a problem at many destinations and we have felt it appropriate to remove rental listings and taxi listings from articles in the past as things can get out of hand and it can also be very difficult to determine the credible operators from the less credible. There was however a serious effort made to address that in the Margarita article. -- (WT-en) felix 03:03, 1 September 2011 (EDT)

 * I think the right thing to do is to summarize the information you've just presented in the article rather than attempt to present a list that weeds out the good & bad operators from the many operating on the island. Unless a handful of credible editors who know the island well are willing to constantly patrol this article such a list would be impossible to maintain, while an informational paragraph about the rental situation would benefit the traveler without opening the page up to problem additions. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 10:47, 1 September 2011 (EDT)

 * Ryan you are absolutley correct, "there are more than 10 car rental agencies operating on this island". However,
 * "Margarita Island (Isla de Margarita) is the largest island of the state of Nueva Esparta in Venezuela," http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isla_Margarita, it is not a "city" as stated in http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:External_links#What_not_to_link_to,

 * In addition, most of the companies that were listed were not "national car rental chains" as required to mandate avoidance. Since the rest of the paragraph deals with "national car rental chains", it gives no guidance as to local operators who would not be listed on a national level. My suggestion is to re-list the local operations only, since the policy is apparently mute on the subject of local operators at the local level. Thanks, (WT-en) MustSee

 * Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding, the policy is "ten or more rental companies operating in a location", irregardless of whether they are national, local, etc. As to Margarita Island not being a city, if the article warrants sub-dividing into cities then individual listings can be moved appropriately and this discussion re-opened, but right now it's the article into which listings are being added so per the intent of the referenced guideline it counts for the "10".  Note that the "10 rental agency" guideline isn't one that tends to get rigidly enforced unless an article begins filling up with rental listings or some of the listings seem problematic, which is what I see happening here.  While I appreciate that you are enthusiastic about having your company listed, given the reputation of some of these companies I think the Wikivoyage article is better off stating what Felix has said above and following the existing guidelines to not list individual companies. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 20:15, 2 September 2011 (EDT)

 * Hi Ryan, below is what I posted in the pub that for some reason, I probably messed up somewhere, is not showing, Pub#Feedback request: Margarita Island car rentals. I strongly disagree with you that the policy is for a "location". The policy is crystal clear that it is referring to a "city" (not a "location" as you state it says) and takes it a step further by mentioning the national level. As indicated below, and all of your replies above, you fail to acknowledge the difference between a city, a location and a nation. http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:External_links#What_not_to_link_to

 * On 8/31 you state "there are more than 10 car rental agencies operating on this island". Now you further state "the policy is 'ten or more rental companies operating in a location', irregardless of whether they are national, regional, etc."

 * Not to be argumentative, but let's assume your logic. IF the policy stated, "Avoid linking to secondary sources - for example, avoid links to: Rental cars operators, in (countries, states or regions, take your pick) where they are common (10 or more operating in the ..........). Typically we don't provide details of national car rental chains in local guides. Providing details at the national level, and mentioning the name and location at local level is sufficient if required.", how would a national car rental chain be listed on the national level? Surely there are 10 or more operating in every country. How about the regional or state level? Again, not to be argumentative but when I read the word city I believe that is exactly what the founders had in mind with this policy, not a nation, Not a state, not a region nor location. A city is just that, a city. Do you not agree?

 * It has been "Note[d] that the '10 rental agency' guideline isn't one that tends to get rigidly enforced" by you. Many, many you ignore the situation, while others you appear to remove for no apparent reason except the flawed policy logic stated herein, even if the article does not begin to fill up with rental listings or some of the listings seem problematic. The missing Pub posting follows:

 * []

 * Have a great Holiday, (WT-en) MustSee 03:04, 3 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 03:04, 3 September 2011 (EDT)

 * I think the policy means clearly that in this case we don't list them. Besides all that, the point of the policy is that we are asking "would it be unreasonably difficult for a tourist find a place to rent a car on their own without our spelling it out for them?" And the answer to that here is clearly no. (WT-en) texugo 04:49, 3 September 2011 (EDT)

Oh my gosh, things sure are confusing here. Ryan will not answer my questions directed at him here, so I posted them at the alternate pub posted by him. Now I am directed back here. Ok, here is what was posted on the pub;

 * Hey Ryan, I just want to clarify my position on this issue. Your statement, "I removed a car rental section per Wikivoyage:External links#What not to link to (more than ten car rental companies available at the location)," I feel, is not entirely accurate. The reasons are listed below.

 * "Avoid linking to secondary sources - for example, avoid links to: Rental cars operators, in cities where they are common (10 or more operating in the city). Typically we don't provide details of national car rental chains in local guides. Providing details at the national level, and mentioning the name and location at local level is sufficient if required." http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:External_links#What_not_to_link_to

 * The above referenced policy deals with "Rental cars operators, in cities where they are common (10 or more operating in the city)" and "national car rental chains in local guides". Margarita Island is not a "city", it is a State. Therefore, while there may be more then 10 car rental agencies operating on this Island, it is not a "city" and the policy about including individual local agencies in the article is not very clear except to say that national car rental chains at the local level need only be mentioned.

 * In the State of Florida, http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Florida, 8 rental car companies have been listed, 4 with links to their web sites. The "city" of Tampa, http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Tampa, list 8 "national car rental chains" and one local company, all with links. The city of Tampa has 10 or more "rental car operators" operating within that city.

 * This is common place on wikivoyage, if more examples are needed I can supply 100's more that violate the above mentioned policy. By removing the "national car rental chains" from the individual listings that you removed, it would be within policy. So if there are no objections I will rework the list to be policy compliant. Thanks, (WT-en) MustSee 16:28, 2 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 16:28, 2 September 2011 (EDT)

I am somewhat baffled at how y'all consider a State a "city" or misinterpret "city" as a "location". Am I missing something from the policy quoted? When I read the word city, I do not confuse it with a state.

 * By removing the details of the national car rental chains that are mentioned in the text below, since they are listed on a national level and Margarita Island is not a city as required for exclusion in the policy quoted, this now falls within WT established policy. In addition, the operators listed below are all licensed and are genuine car rental companies, saving the traveler the potential hassle of dealing with a third party or an unlicensed company. This gives the traveler the information they need to decide on their own. I propose the following addition if there are no legitimate objections.

 * Rental cars are available from major chains such as Avis, Budget and Hertz, as well as local operators. Always use common sense when renting and make sure to check for any hidden costs and levies that may appear when you return the car. To rent a car you will need a current driver’s license and a passport. Make sure you have adequate insurance cover any loss or purchase a Collision Damage Waiver and do not leave your passport, drivers licence, or any other important documentation with the rental company as a security deposit. Thoroughly check over the vehicle including the glass and all panels for any damage and have the salesperson initial a damage record. If in doubt at all photograph the vehicle from all sides prior to taking delivery. Ensure you check the gas tank prior to the rental and at return. Check the vehicle over thoroughly before you leave the depot to ensure everything is functioning on the vehicle and that it is roadworthy.

 * Scooter motorbike and moped hire

 * If considering making a trip to the mainland on the ferry and taking a rental vehicle with you then please ensure beforehand that your rental and insurance contract permits the vehicle traveling off the island.
 * (WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)
 * (WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)

 * It is not helpful for this discussion to happen in two places, and Ryan's comment above was only a pointer to the actual discussion at Talk:Margarita Island. Please keep all discussion there. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:22, 11 September 2011 (EDT)

http://en.wikivoyage.org/w/index.php?title=Wikivoyage:Travellers%27_pub&action=edit&section=37

(WT-en) MustSee 20:59, 11 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee

 * It seems you are having trouble understanding that the policy refers to cities because region articles typically shouldn't contain any individual listings whatsoever -- that stuff belongs down at the city level. In this case, however, the region doesn't have enough city articles under it to contain the individual listings, so by chance it is this article receiving the listings. I don't in any way think that this makes it exempt from the policy-- I agree with (WT-en) Ryan. (WT-en) texugo 21:38, 11 September 2011 (EDT)

 * Hey there texudo, I guess I am having trouble understanding the word city. Ryan states that city means location and now you bring in regions. I am at a loss. I have spent countless hours looking at WT policy and guidelines and cannot find any that back up what is being told to me. Can you please help a gal out here and point them out? Nowhere in any region were any listings present. Thanks, (WT-en) MustSee 08:30, 12 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 08:30, 12 September 2011 (EDT)

 * Um.. Well, this article is a region article, and it has had listings in it, which is a bit of an oddity necessitated by the fact that there aren't city articles for most of the listings to go in. Ryan's point is that the policy is designed to apply to articles that have listings, which is usually a city article, but that the policy nevertheless applies also in this case even though it's actually a region article. The reason is the same -- because it's an article that has listings. (WT-en) texugo 09:26, 12 September 2011 (EDT)

 * Now you really have this gals head spinning. I thought Nueva Esparta was the region article. Is Margarita Island also a region? The regions listed are;

Antolín del Campo - La Plaza de Paraguachí Arismendi - La Asunción Díaz - Parroquia San Juan Bautista García - El Valle del Espíritu Santo Gómez - Santa Ana Maneiro - Pampatar Marcano - Juan Griego Mariño - Porlamar Macanao - Boca del Río Tubores - Punta de Piedras Villalba - San Pedro de Coche There were no listings in any of those regions. How does one determine if it is a region article? Maybe just listing the companies without the links will solve the problem since the policy stated has to do with external links? I think I need an Excedrin now. Thanks (WT-en) MustSee 18:22, 12 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 18:22, 12 September 2011 (EDT)

 * Project:Geographical hierarchy has the official site policy. I don't know the geography of Margarita Island, but "regions" are articles that are used to group lower-level articles for organizational purposes, and listings for individual business should go in the lowest level article in the hierarchy. For example, where I live is:
 * North America (continent/region)
 * → United States of America (country/region)
 * → California (state/region)
 * → Southern California (region)
 * → Los Angeles County (region)
 * → West Side (Los Angeles County) (region)
 * → Culver City (city).
 * As a result, listings for individual business go in the Culver City article. If the cities in a region are too small to warrant their own articles, or if the region doesn't have towns/cities, then the lowest level region would contain the individual business listings - see for example:
 * South America (continent/region)
 * → Falkland Islands (country/region)
 * → Pebble Island (island/region).

 * In your case, Margarita Island was the lowest level of the hierarchy. If that has changed with some of your recent edits and there is a lower-level article that is a more appropriate place for business listings then they can be moved appropriately. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 18:51, 12 September 2011 (EDT)

 * I need a drink, lol. I just want to post the 4 local operators and am at a loss. Make that a double, please. Can you please be more specific where to place the local operators? Thanks (WT-en) MustSee 21:08, 12 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 21:08, 12 September 2011 (EDT)

 * Lets see if I can simplify. 1) This is a region article; region articles should not have listings—listings should be placed in city articles. Thus, car rental listings should not be put in this article.

 * 2) If there are less than 10 total car rentals in a city, then it is OK to put them in. It is not relevant whether the operator is national or local. So, if Juan Griego has less than 10 total car rentals in the city, it would be fine to put car rental listings into that article. Clear? ;)  --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:58, 12 September 2011 (EDT)

 * And for why we have this car rental policy—we've had a lot of problems with car agencies spamming our guides. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:59, 12 September 2011 (EDT)
 * I think I got it now. Wow Margarita Island sounds boring now, lol. Cheers (WT-en) MustSee 08:17, 13 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 08:17, 13 September 2011 (EDT)

List of rental car ops as at 25 oct 2010
'''For editing and development on the Discussion page. Most importantly the issue of the operation being Licensed to Operate and having a Physical street address ''' Scooter motorbike and moped hire

Medical clinics
(WT-en) MustSee you seem to have some local knowledge, maybe you would like to check the phone number formatting for the medical clinics and confirm the area codes and locality descriptions are correct. It strikes me the addresses/localities could do with a bit more detail and confirmation that the contact details currently in the article are correct. Thanks if you can assist. (WT-en) felix 00:46, 19 October 2010 (EDT)

 * The phone formatting is fine for those calling internationally. Local calling is different. The localitly descriptions are also fine. There are few actual street addresses here. Take "Centro Clínica Margarita". Centro is the street, Clínica is the clinic and of course Margarita is the state. Saying the clinic on Centro street in Margarita tells everyone where it is. (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

 * Dental work is quite reasonable on Margarita Island. If anyone needs a dentist while on vacation, Dra. Susana Mitchell Speaks English. She was educated in Miami, Florida and is located at Av. Circunvalacion Norte, Piso 1 office B-7, Los Robles. Her office number is 58 295 414 6040 and her cell phone number is 58 416 695 3192. Professionals here give their cell phone numbers rather then have a service screen the calls. (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

 * MustSee ...please don't forget to sign with ~ so we know who has written something. Also using an indent by typing : will help a little. I have done it retrospectively on your 2 paragraphs above so you can see the effect. When a further comment is made (such as this one) 2 :: can be used and so forth...

 * Yes, that dentist info a good thing to put into the Stay healthy section. The content must be stated in an 'objective' manner though ...here is an example of how this dental service could be listed using the appropriate WT formatting and style:

 * It could then look like this, listed in the Stay healthy section....
 * Dental work is normally quite reasonably priced on Margarita Island. Many dentists have modern facilities and have trained in the US or EU.
 * I have just gone ahead and put this into the article as above. (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)
 * I have just gone ahead and put this into the article as above. (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Sleep Eat and Drink
Surely there must be more than 3 places to stay on this island. It would be most helpful if editors familiar with the location could work up some detail for some more listings. Prefereably split into 3 sub-sections for Budget, Mid-range, Splurge and Villas.

 * Good work MustSee this is the sort of content that can help develop this article. Make sure you use the WT formatting appropriate to the listing. In this case it would be:
 * Hotels: *
 * and
 * Restaurants: *
 * You can find these at the bottom of the edit page, just click on the appropriate one and it will be entered into the text edit area of the page, then fill in the details.
 * (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Please use the below as a guideline for formatting the section (WT-en) felix 04:44, 19 October 2010 (EDT)(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Sleep
Keep in mind that the beds in many hotels (mostly up to the mid-range levels) are nothing more than mattresses on concrete slabs that resemble box springs. Depending on what your sleep preference is, they may not be the most comfortable for you. Something for you to consider when looking for a hotel to stay at. Many are opting for a self catering condo over a hotel. When one compares prices they may learn that a self catering condo is preferred over a hotel. In a condo one pays a per night fee, not a per person fee. In addition, when staying in a self catering condo one has the option of eating in or eating out. Don't be surprised if your email goes unanswered. Many operators do not dedicate anyone to handle responding to online inquiries.

Budget
please make sure to use appropriate WT formatting such as:

*

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Las Trinitarias, posada (Bed & Breakfast),local family owned & opperated establishment with 8 rooms that have private bath daily cleaning service Air Conditioning swimming pool and cable TV. Location sector Alto Rosas, El Cardon, Antolin de Campo. Phone 58 295 416 7112, website http://www.lastrinitarias.com.ve (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

For example using * the listing for Posada Las Trinitarias could look like this:

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Guesthouse La Casa De Maria, breakfast included (except Sunday), airport pick up, free internet access, address Playa El Angel, Calle Petronila Mata, Casa María A-38 Phone 58 416 399 6435 (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Mid-range
please make sure to use appropriate WT formatting such as:

*

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Margarita Island Condos offer rental condos to choose from with a style of their own. Margarita Island Condos are fully equipped and are offered by the day, week or month. Phone 58 295 772 8600,58 416 398 9034 http://www.margaritaislandcondos.com/ (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Using * the listing for Margarita Island Condos could look like this:

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

 * Comments on the Margarita Island Condos listing and my rewrite of it:
 * We need to describe what "with a style of their own" means, ie. is it modern, clean, basic, rustic, contemporary euro styling, tired second hand 1980's hand downs from someone's real house or something similar. I used "tidy and clean but the decor and furnishings are a little dated" The web promotion of these properties has self described "tasteful" on their website it must always be understood that what may be "tastefull" to some may be downright horrible to others. In this case the photos look reasonably OK but I used description as based on the information available the available apartments have a somewhat 'dated' look to them. Remember of course to make it as objective as possible, if you really don't know then just keep it basic, hopefully someone else will develop the listing later. This does not denigrate the properties, rather it should just describe them as objectively as possible. Indeed in this example they would to opulent for some people, be perfect for some others but then not anywhere stylish enough for some others. (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Margarita Tropical Villa is a Bed & Breakfast / Posada that has 10 rooms, a pool, fridge, DirecTV, free DSL Internet & Wi-Fi, A/C, king-size beds, microwave, toaster, water cooler, iron, hair dryer & a free breakfast. Location La Mira, Playa El Agua, Antolin del Campo, Phone (58) 295-249-0558 or (58) 416-695-3704, website; http://www.casatrudel.com/ (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Posada Los Mangos has nine fully-equipped, air-conditioned guest rooms with en-suite shower facilities ceiling fans, satelite TV and personal safes. Linens and towels are also supplied. There is a roof terrace with sea and mountain views, where you can enjoy your breakfast, fresh coffee or a selection of English and herbal tea's. Throughout the day the Cafe/Bar is open, serving a choice of hot and cold food, including pastries, cakes, ice creams and local dishes. Location, Calle Principal El Cardón  Phone 58 295 611 7771 http://www.losmangosmargarita.com/ (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Costa Linda is a Posada (bed & breakfast) located in Playa El Agua, half a block from the beach. There are 28 rooms that offer, air conditioning, private bathroom with shower, swimming pool, breakfast served daily and there is a full restaurant on the premises. Phone; 58 295 415 9961. Email; hotelcostalinda@cantv.net Web site: http://www.hotelcostalinda.com/index2.htm (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Hotel Pension Casa Perla is located just 70 - 100 meters from the beach in Playa el Yaque on Margarita Island. Playa el Yaque is known internationally as one of the best spots in the world for wind surfing and kite surfing. The beach has calm, shallow, warm water, making it an ideal place to spend the day. (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010 (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010 Casa Perla offers 8 rooms for 2 or 3 persons. Each room has a bathroom with hot water, air conditioning, beds with orthopedic mattresses, refrigerator, a safe for the valuables, cable TV and free internet access (Wi-Fi) One can also relax in a hammock on the private balcony! (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

A breakfast is served on the top-floor terrace where there is a view of the Caribbean Sea and El Yaque. Web site, http://www.casaperlamargarita.com/ Phone; 58  414 793 3143 or 58 295 414 9204, email; casaperla@isla-margarita.hu (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Splurge
please make sure to use appropriate WT formatting such as:

*

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Dunes Hotel & Beach Resort, (25 minutes away from the Santiago Mariño Airport and 30 minutes from Porlamar), [13]. The hotel is located at the northernmost coast of the island in an area considered by many to have the best beaches on the island. The ocean beach at Puerto Cruz, is 2.5 km long. On the left of the hotel is Playa Zaragoza, a small protected bay.

(This Dunes hotel listing is from the original article and lacks a phone number, I have formatted to WT mark-up but the listing needs fuller detail such as tel and email contacts) (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

These existing article listings also need work:

Hesperia Hotel has 312 rooms, including suites. It offers spa, tennis courts, fitness center, the only 18 hole golf course on Margarita Island and is beach front with swimming pool. Location: Playas Puerto Viejo y Puerto Cruz. Phone 58 295 400 7111 web site http://www.hesperia.com/hesperia/en/hotels/venezuela/isla-margarita/hesperia-isla-margarita.html email hotel@hesperia-islamargarita.com (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Private villas
please make sure to use appropriate WT formatting such as:

*

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

CASA"Mi Sueño (house of my Caribbean dreams)Your own house. Your own tropical garden. Your own pool. Completely private! No fight for a patio chair or the best place at the pool. The caretaker, Mima, takes care of the guests. She makes the beds, keeps the house clean and, if requested, will cook.

The house is pleasantly situated between mountains and beach. Most of the time there is a refreshing breeze and not too much humidity. Playa el Agua is just a 10 minute walk from the villa. The salon and kitchen blend into one another with Caribbean atmosphere. There are big patio sliding-doors which unite the salon and patio. From the patio there is a wonderful view on the mountains and also, partly, the Caribbean sea. 3 bedrooms with double-beds and with air conditioning, 2 bathrooms. In the rear of the house, separately, rooms for managing the household affairs. Mima's empire. Not far from the house are two small typical Venezuelan shops where you can buy some of the most important basic foods. Aprox. 15 minutes away there is a supermarket. The neighbours are from different nations, but naturally, mainly Venezuelans. e-mail; caribic@online.de phone; 0049 4103 918330  (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Eat
Surely there is more than just the one place to eat on the island. Same formula as above, create a preamble about eating in Margarita, such as food style, popular restaurant locality, maybe in the city, at the beach and similar. Don't forget that a business can only be listed once. Please note: If it is a hotel with a restaurant best to just list the hotel and put into the listing detail that it has a great restaurant...if it does. It has to be a very distinctively different operation from the hotel to even begin to justify a separate listing

Budget
please make sure to use appropriate WT formatting such as:

*

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Vaquero Steak House, located on Av. 31 de Julio, Sector El Salado, Via Playa El Agua. Phone 58 295 242 1255. Steak house that also serves grilled ribs, chicken, sausage and other local fare at a very reasonable price. This is an open air restaurant, come as you are, beach attire permitted. Open from Noon until 8:00 everyday (except Monday and Tuesday in slow season). English menu available upon request. (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

Using * the listing for Vaquero Steak House could look like this:

Lupe Mexican Gourmet Av. 31 de Julio, Sector Salamanca Phone 58 414 112 9526. Authentic Mexican food served on an open air patio at reasonable prices. Open every day except Tuesday from 4:00 until 8:00. Owner operators both speak English to help if one needs help with the Spanish menu. Don't forget to ask about dessert.

 * (WT-en) MustSee 08:04, 20 October 2010 (EDT)(WT-en) MustSee 08:07, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Vaquero and Lupe listings look ready to go but are you sure about the closing time for Lupe, do they close very early at night? (WT-en) felix 12:54, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Sambil Mall food court has something for just about everyone. There are well know American franchises such as KFC, McDonalds, Burger King, as well as more local and international flare foods available. Everyone in your group can dine on something different while eating together as a group. Hours are 11:00 am until 9:00 pm. Third pix is food court, http://www.sambilmall.com/Mall.aspx/4/Sambil-Margarita (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

(WT-en) MustSee 08:25, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

This one looks ready to go as well, good work [MustSee}. (WT-en) felix 12:54, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Mid-range
please make sure to use appropriate WT formatting such as:

*

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Dolphin Restaurant located on Avenida Aldonza Manrique in the Playa El Angel section outside of Pampatar. Italian, seafood and international cuisine are the specialities. It is closed on Sundays. Hours very by season. Phone; 58 295 262 1662 (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

 * (WT-en) MustSee 08:41, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

El Pacifico restaurant (Playa El Agua) serves mostly fresh seafood, with exotic cocktails and is located directly on the beach. The portions are generally not large so keep that in mind if you are extremely hungry. Hours vary by season. (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010
 * (WT-en) MustSee 08:41, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

These both look good now and ready to go into the article. (WT-en) felix 12:46, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Splurge
please make sure to use appropriate WT formatting such as:

*

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

La Casa de la Langosta (Lobster House) serves their specialty, lobster, many different ways. Choose from lobster served natural, thermidor, with mushrooms, four cheese, criolla style, natural medallions, on ice, salad, or vinaigrette. Also available is a full line of other fresh seafood along with chicken, beef, lamb and pork dishes. Located on Avenida 4 de Mayo in Porlamar for the last 19 years serving fresh lobster. For reservations their phone number is 58 295 264 3238. Hours very by season Web site; http://www.lobsterhousemargarita.com/ (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

*

and it could look like this... (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Catabar located on Avenida Joaquín Maneiro in Pampatar has a tastefully decorated dining room and variety of international cuisine. The chef is from France and the presentation is what one would expect from a five star restaurant. Their desserts receive high praise from the local food critics. An impressive wine list is also available. The owner speaks English if one needs help with the menu. Hours very by season. (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

 * (WT-en) MustSee 08:54, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

This one looks good now, good work MustSee. I just corrected a small typo (very=vary). (WT-en) felix 12:14, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

El Fondeadero located on Avenida Joaquín Maneiro in Pampatar next to the "fort". Enjoy waterfront dining while being served fresh seafood that was caught that day or chose a variety of other dishes. in Pampatar next to the "fort".Hours very by season. (WT-en) MustSee (unsigned) 19 October 2010

 * (WT-en) MustSee 08:54, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

This one also looks good with the content but something strange has been going on with the formatting, I have done it again underneath your version so you can compare the two. I also corrected the same small typo (very=vary). (WT-en) felix 12:14, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

MustSee this is all looking good. (WT-en) felix 12:14, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

>>end of example layout...(WT-en) felix 04:44, 19 October 2010 (EDT) >>unsigned content added by (WT-en) MustSee 12:09, 19 October 2010 thru 21:19, 19 October 2010 with formatting fix assistance from Dguillaime.

Please make sure you don't forget to sign off on your posts here with the ~

That content above is certainly what the article needs. It will need to be formatted correctly to the wikivoyage mark up...using *
 * I will do the first one of each group using that mark up as an example. Once we have them all done then they can be moved across to the article.

(WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

 * Here are some others to consider for developing for article content:
 * I found these venues listed below elsewhere but I am not sure if they are up to date. Also they have not been critiqued as I am unfamiliar with the destination. We must make sure that we are not listing too many of course and that we are describing them as has been done above, otherwise it just becomes a phonebook listing and that is not what WT is about. Good work on the above. (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

 * Please do not forget to sign off with ~ so that we know who has written the content.

Restaurant MargaritaVille, near hotel Hilton.

Restaurant El Pescador de la Marina, Marina Concorde, Porlamar. )

Bar & Restaurant Señor Frog´s. Mexican Food. DISCOTHEQUE Costa Azul. Avenida Bolívar. El Remo. - Internacional,. Fish & Seafood. Avenida 4 de Mayo. Porlamar

Sambil Mall: Large variety of restaurants.this one is already listed by [MustSee] above

La Scala. Hotel Hilton & Suites. Italian Il Positano. Pizzería. - Open Garden. Calle Fermín. Porlamar. Utopía Café. Café. Deli & bar. Web& News.Avenida Bolívar. Centro Comercial Costa Azul. Porlamar.

La Tonada del Brasero. Grill Beef, typical Creole. Prolongación Av. 4 de Mayo. Porlamar.

Dragón Chino. Chinese. Avenida 4 de mayo. across Rattan.

Café Local Standby. Thai. and european. Av. 4 de Mayo.

L´Incontro. Italian, Snacks & Ice Creams. Calle Tubores. Porlamar.

Guanábana´s Tripical Show. Restaurant International. Calle Cedeño con Av. Santiago Mariño.

Cheers. International. Av. Santiago Mariño. Porlamar.

Dallas. International and Beef. Av. 4 de Mayo.

Sevillana´s. Spanish Restaurant.. -  Life Show (Band) and Flamenco Dance. Av. Bolívar.

El Pacífico Restaurant. Fish & Lobster. Boulevard Playa El Agua.

Costa del Sol. International and chilean. Fish & Seafood. Calle El Fuerte. Juangriego.

The above is only for consideration and checking, added by (WT-en) felix 00:01, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Taxis
I have removed the list of taxi operators as the list needs some some work done on it to cull out any unlicensed or dubious operators. The taxi list needs to be culled down to a few good ones whilst ensuring that we only list those that operate cabs with official (yellow gov. issued) licensing plates. Lets also try and get some comments on the taxis operations of the respective companies, are they old, clean, dirty, brand new or what ever. (WT-en) felix 05:53, 22 October 2010 (EDT)

 * Please add content here rather than in the main article at this time.

some more....

Latin Union Taxis Address, CCSambil, Pampatar, Margarita, Phone, (0295) 263.7113

Luxor Taxi Address, CCSambil, Pampatar, Margarita, Venezuela, Phone, (0295) 263.7979

Cexpre CA Taxis Address, CCSambil, Pampatar, Margarita, Phone, (0295) 262.4545

Millennium Taxi Address, Margarita, Phone, (0295) 263.7823 / 416.7266

Taxi Cubagua Address, C / c.Carnevalli, Rattan Plaza; Av.4 de Mayo, Margarita, Phone, (0295) 264.4102

Adventure Taxi Address, Margarita, Phone, (0295) 287.1856

San Mar Taxi Address, CCSambil, Pampatar, Margarita, Phone, (0295) 262.4816 / 4733

Tourist Lines Address, Margarita, Phone, (0295) 261.3113

United Taxis Address, Calle Narvaez, Margarita, Phone (0295) 262.6881 (WT-en) felix 03:02, 20 October 2010 (EDT)

Orphaned listings
These listings below have been removed from the Margarita Island article in recent edits. Others were retreived from the edit histories and redistribnuted in sub-articles but these below remain orphaned. -- (WT-en) felix 14:28, 13 September 2011 (EDT)

Northern end of the island

Learn
accidentally placed into the Playa El Yaque article, this Learn detail should probably go into the Porlamar article as that is the nearest to it geographically. Maybe (WT-en) MustSee would like to comment with some local feedback on this. -- (WT-en) felix 12:21, 14 September 2011 (EDT)

On Margarita Island you can learn the Spanish language in Cela Spanish School in Playa El Angel. The school is owned and managed by Sabine Loffler, PhD in Linguistics and specialist in teaching Spanish as a foreign language. The school has also a free on-line version where you can learn Spanish for your travel to Venezuela.

Cela Spanish School in Playa El Angel now listified and placed into the Porlamar article as that is the nearest to it geographically. -- (WT-en) felix 13:37, 14 September 2011 (EDT)

Feedback request: Margarita Island car rentals
Per Talk:Margarita Island hopefully a few other people can chime in. I removed a car rental section per Project:External links (more than ten car rental companies available at the location), but there is some history to the car rental section as outlined on the talk page, so perhaps one or two others can provide their opinions on this subject. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 19:46, 31 August 2011 (EDT)

 * Hey Ryan, I just want to clarify my position on this issue. Your statement, "I removed a car rental section per Wikivoyage:External links#What not to link to (more than ten car rental companies available at the location)," I feel, is not entirely accurate. The reasons are listed below.

 * "Avoid linking to secondary sources - for example, avoid links to: Rental cars operators, in cities where they are common (10 or more operating in the city). Typically we don't provide details of national car rental chains in local guides. Providing details at the national level, and mentioning the name and location at local level is sufficient if required." http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:External_links#What_not_to_link_to

 * The above referenced policy deals with "Rental cars operators, in cities where they are common (10 or more operating in the city)" and "national car rental chains in local guides". Margarita Island is not a "city", it is a State. Therefore, while there may be more then 10 car rental agencies operating on this Island, it is not a "city" and the policy about including individual local agencies in the article is not very clear except to say that national car rental chains at the local level need only be mentioned.

 * In the State of Florida, http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Florida, 8 rental car companies have been listed, 4 with links to their web sites. The "city" of Tampa, http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Tampa, list 8 "national car rental chains" and one local company, all with links. The city of Tampa has 10 or more "rental car operators" operating within that city.

 * This is common place on wikivoyage, if more examples are needed I can supply 100's more that violate the above mentioned policy. By removing the "national car rental chains" from the individual listings that you removed, it would be within policy. So if there are no objections I will rework the list to be policy compliant. Thanks, (WT-en) MustSee 16:28, 2 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 16:28, 2 September 2011 (EDT)

 * By removing the details of the national car rental chains that are mentioned in the text below, since they are listed on a national level and Margarita Island is not a city as required for exclusion in the policy quoted, this now falls within WT established policy. In addition, the operators listed below are all licensed and are genuine car rental companies, saving the traveler the potential hassle of dealing with a third party or an unlicensed company. This gives the traveler the information they need to decide on their own. I propose the following addition if there are no legitimate objections.

 * Rental cars are available from major chains such as Avis, Budget and Hertz, as well as local operators. Always use common sense when renting and make sure to check for any hidden costs and levies that may appear when you return the car. To rent a car you will need a current driver’s license and a passport. Make sure you have adequate insurance cover any loss or purchase a Collision Damage Waiver and do not leave your passport, drivers licence, or any other important documentation with the rental company as a security deposit. Thoroughly check over the vehicle including the glass and all panels for any damage and have the salesperson initial a damage record. If in doubt at all photograph the vehicle from all sides prior to taking delivery. Ensure you check the gas tank prior to the rental and at return. Check the vehicle over thoroughly before you leave the depot to ensure everything is functioning on the vehicle and that it is roadworthy.

 * Scooter motorbike and moped hire

 * If considering making a trip to the mainland on the ferry and taking a rental vehicle with you then please ensure beforehand that your rental and insurance contract permits the vehicle traveling off the island.
 * (WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)
 * (WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)MustSee(WT-en) MustSee 14:54, 11 September 2011 (EDT)

 * It is not helpful for this discussion to happen in two places, and Ryan's comment above was only a pointer to the actual discussion at Talk:Margarita Island. Please keep all discussion there. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:22, 11 September 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Margarita Island


text:
Talk:Margate

Haha! Most accurate description of Margate I ever read. Too funny. (WT-en) Genjix 14:42, 2 January 2010 (EST)
 * Still true is 2018 sadly. I was there yesterday fro a visit to Dreamland with my young daughter.  A well and truly faded resort with litter everywhere.Davidbstanley (talk) 05:40, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Margate


text:
Talk:Maria la Gorda

This place is only for foreigners because the cuban government decided that whoever was born on the island CANNOT go diving on any of their ships. The food is extremely expensive and of very bad quality. The buffet is a joke to say the least. Their rooms are old and you might find some critters inside your fridge or underneath your pillow (we found a dead frog inside the fridge). If you have some respect for humankind you would NOT visit this place (especially if you are a cuban born). The beach & the view are not bad though.

title: Talk:Maria la Gorda


text:
Talk:Marietta (Georgia)

Is Marietta, GA more famous than Marietta, OH? I'm biased towards OH, so I need another perspective. - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 03:14, 24 June 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Marietta (Georgia)


text:
Talk:Marina Beach

According to Wikipedia this is a beach in Chennai. Is there enough to write about here that it should have its own article rather than a section or listing in Chennai? The Wikipedia article doesn't make it seem so. --(WT-en) OldPine 19:38, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Marina Beach


text:
Talk:Marina del Rey

Someone keeps making new versions of this page, and I've tried to integrate their work in here. --(WT-en) Evan 17:28, 12 December 2006 (EST)

Copyleft
Copied from user page (WT-en) Maj 14:14, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Just wanted to confirm that I do have permission to use the contribution from the Marina del Rey Convention and Visitors Bureau for the History submission. Thanks for asking. User:(WT-en) Marinagal.

Yellow Pages
One of the explicit non-goals is that articles shouldn't become yellow pages. This article seems to have crossed that line a bit, so I've done a bit of trimming. Feel free to revert if I've removed any place of particular notice. -- (WT-en) Ryan 22:36, 23 January 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Marina del Rey


text:
Talk:Markham

not needed?
e-mail addresses? urls that dont mean a thing like for the travel guide?

Thank you. --(WT-en) LebronJames23 23:28, 6 May 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Markham


text:
Talk:Markha Valley Trek

I'd think that a trek would be more of an itinerary than a region. --(WT-en) Evan 11:40, 17 October 2006 (EDT)

 * There isn't an Itinerary template among the options available at the top of new pages, so I chose the one which seemed most appropriate - that for National Park. And, in some ways, this template is better than the Itinerary one as it offers a comprehensive choice of sleep options, plus sub-sections for adding info on climate, flora and fauna etc. Actually, none of the current templates provide sufficient information options for someone embarking on a long mountain trek. They all have to be adapted. Therefore, I think designing a new template specially for for this purpose (possibly a combination of the National Park and Itinerary templates) would be a good idea. Thoughts? (WT-en) WindHorse 21:22, 17 October 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Markha Valley Trek


text:
Talk:Marlinton

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Comments
The Marlinton travel guide isn't an outline anymore. --(WT-en) CurvyEthyl 22:22, 28 September 2010 (EDT)

 * Well, it actually is. Per Project:City guide status, it still needs at least one restaurant listing complete with contact info to go up to "usable" status. – (WT-en) Vidimian 10:22, 29 September 2010 (EDT)

I added a listing, so is it "usable" now? – (WT-en) CurvyEthyl 02:07, 9 October 2010 (EDT)

 * It seems so (and I see you already upgraded it). That being said, I think it's a good idea to note ways of going to the town other than by car (if any. Is there a bus connection there for example?) and what kind of food that restaurant offers (right now, it looks as if all they offer is bull and bear meat!) to make this at "usable" status more firmly. – (WT-en) Vidimian 03:40, 9 October 2010 (EDT)

Marlinton is not known as the birthplace of rivers. That would be Pocahontas County as a whole. Marlinton is the county seat of Pocahontas county, but no rivers begin there. Most notably the Greenbrier river flows through Marlinton. I will be changing that line accordingly. —The preceding comment was added by 50.110.107.209 (talk • contribs)

 * Go ahead, and welcome! It's customary to sign your username (or in your case, IP address) at the end of all comments on talk (discussion) pages, so I've signed for you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:53, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Marlinton


text:
Talk:Marmara (region)

Is this the same Marmara, or a different one? WikiPedia:Marmara, Balıkesir

 * No, it's not the same. WikiPedia:Marmara, Balıkesir corresponds to Marmara Islands article. Marmara Region is a much bigger surrounding area (which also includes WikiPedia:Marmara, Balıkesir).--(WT-en) Vidimian 08:19, 8 September 2008 (EDT)

Sub-regions
I propose the following as sub-regions for Marmara Region to keep the current and future list of cities tidier, as well as to get rid of fairly useless (and inconsistent) provinces as sub-regions (well, except one of them).

 * 1) Istanbul Province – this is the only province I’d like to keep as a sub-region because of its central position which makes it hard to attach it somewhere else.
 * 2) Eastern Thrace – European Turkey/European Marmara Region except those places that are covered in Istanbul Province. Already a quite substantial article.
 * 3) Southern Marmara – Anywhere south of Dardanelles, the Sea of Marmara, and the mountain range running right through the centre of the peninsula to the east of the Sea. It ends just east of Gemlik. Includes Canakkale, Bandirma, Marmara Islands, Bursa, Gemlik, and Armutlu.
 * 4) Eastern Marmara – East of Istanbul Province, including both (northern & southern) shores of the Gulf of Izmit. Includes Izmit and Yalova, and two articles that I’ll start soon: Iznik and Osmaneli.

We currently have (a very messy) Balikesir Province and (an essentially empty) Bursa Province which should both be broken up between two proposed subregions each, and after getting their content to right city articles (and creating new articles if they don’t exist already), I intend to turn them to basically disambiguation pages with links to necessary subregion pages (We also have Edirne Province too, but since it’s completely a subregion of Eastern Thrace, its final fate can be decided later).

If there are no objections, I intend to start these subregions within a few days. – (WT-en) Vidimian 16:04, 27 April 2009 (EDT)

Istanbul city boundaries expanded in 2005 to engulf the whole province. I've adjusted Marmara Region accordingly - see Istanbul Discussion. Grahamsands (talk) 21:04, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

Gallipoli
See Gallipoli discussion page for a proposal to re-organise the south end of the peninsula. Grahamsands (talk) 16:58, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Marmara (region)


text:
Talk:Marmaris

hello i am going to visit marmaris for 5 days. can anyone inform me about attractions and beautiful islands in marmaris thank you in advance —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Shivatafazoli72 (talk • contribs)

 * Well, the article tells about pretty much all. If you take a boat tour around the Bay of Marmaris (you'll see plenty of touts while walking at the waterfront who try to convince you take their tour, but basically they are all the same), at one part of the tour, you'll have a break at somewhere they call "Paradise Island"—a peninsula, actually, with no roads connecting it to the rest of mainland, though, as far as I'm aware of. A leafy and quite beautiful place but not the perfect beach. Then there is the Sedir Island to north of town (see Marmaris for a description of it). And there are jeep safaris around the peninsula to south of Marmaris, usually combining a visit to a nearby sandbar named Kızkumu, although you don't have to take a jeep tour to get there (also see Marmaris). If you happen to have other discoveries in the area, please come by and update the article when you return home. – (WT-en) Vidimian 16:43, 1 October 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Marmaris


text:
Talk:Marquette (Iowa)

Casino and Dining?
its there the link but wheres the information on the guide? --(WT-en) LebronJames23 01:27, 7 May 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Marquette (Iowa)


text:
Talk:Marrakech

Organization of accommodation
Is there a reason the accommodation section is split between accommodation types, instead of by budget as most pages are? Since all hostels fall into the budget section, and the nicer riads are mid-splurge why split them all up in this unusual fashion?

I am also a but concerned that most of these listings don't have prices, when the listings are neither in budget brackets nor priced it creates a real headache for readers. Many in their current form are just adds with contact details.

It might be a reasonably big job, but if I can get some concensus about the ammount of money the brackets should be set at I'm prepared to have a go re-arranging it

--41.142.219.111 07:43, 17 July 2017 (UTC) Willthewanderer

 * I overall agree, lots of missing data can be found with a quick search though and even the ad-style listings can be turned into something more useful with just a little massaging. I'll do both in the coming days as time permits. When reorganizing, I'd suggest to keep the Medina separated from "Ville Nouvelle" (Gueliz is just one district of the "new city"). Medina implies: access can be hard (on foot only), orientation can be hard, completely different lifestyle and rhythm. --Jlg23 (talk) 23:18, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Opinions and Comments from an Anonymous User
Watch out for tourist touts that offer to take you to the medievil dye pits!

1. They are not really worth the visit (unlike the excellent dye pits in Fez)

2. The touts work in pairs. The first takes you to the dye pit (which you could probably manage with a map) and then introduces you to his "friend" to guide you round the pits. The BOTH expect to be paid, and are prepared to follow you incessantly for a very long time if you do not give them enough money.

The main night market is definitely worth a visit, and the food is priced on menues so no hastle there. But the best food we ate there was in a little back street near the museum where a guy was frying fish. Ended going back there twice.

(moved by (WT-en) Nils 09:30, 13 Apr 2004 (EDT))

Advice for dealing with touts....
Smile! - shake their hand and politely say no thank you!

Works every time.

In addition, if someone decides to walk with you and you do not want to pay any money to them then, as soon as you meet them, tell them that you will not be giving them money.

With regards to giving money... If the person has actually performed a service for you that you found helpful, then a tip is definitely in order! - it would be rude not to do it!

Deletions by anonymous user
Just noticed that the entries for Riad Dar Mimouna and Riad Kalila have been deleted by anonymous. Any particular reason for this? I don't know the hotels concerned, but their web sites seem to be running OK.

If this was done in error, or if there's no response from anonymous, I'll revert the changes in a couple of weeks.

- Michaelp

(Footnote 30 July 2006: No response, so I've now added the hotel details back in from a previous diff, but left all other changes intact).

Bargaining
I may be wrong, but Bargaining section looks to be better moved from Marrakech to How to haggle except Morocco-specific stuff which should go to Morocco. In my experience, haggling in Marrakech is nothing different from Essouria or Ourzazate--and is likely the same in the rest of the country. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 18:09, 9 November 2006 (EST)

content from http://elcuerpodecristo.com.ar
Dear 81.192.252.191, is content at http://elcuerpodecristo.com.ar/wiki/Marrakech only created by yourself? Otherwise, do you have a written permission to use its content at Wikivoyage? Is its license compatible with Wikivoyager's? If not, we are not allowed to use their content. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 13:35, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Sorry for the (2months) delay. The content was created by me, yes. We had a really good time there :) --(WT-en) Runa 15:25, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

Hotel Riad Mogador
Warning to all travellers who think they are going to have a wonderful romantic break in Marrakech. We were told our hotel was close to the Market sqr. - it was if you call a 2 mile walk through a very dodgy bus station to start with then streets and streets of nothing but gangs of men peeing in ornamental gardens at the same time pointing you in the wrong direction and wanting money from you for the pleasure. Even our rep (who wasn't that interested) said don't walk back at night its not the best area!!! As for the hotel itself, what was that smell? The corridors and stairwells smelt of dead and decaying fish. We got to our room and the door had been broken into and instead of being offered a different room we were shown how to wiggle it locked. Once inside it was clean and tidy but not 3* by any standard, open the windows and the noise and smell of the bus station and the locals fighting ( we saw one man get glassed in the face because he deicided not to get on the illigal bus and wanted his money back) really made us feel welcome. I have travelled to many places often on my own, and have never felt so unwelcome or unsafe even with my husband as I did in Marrakesh. All I can say is I can strike it of my list of places I want to visit. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 80.5.62.26 (talk • contribs)

Re: Airline prices in the article
Perhaps its a little bit inappropriate to have such specific price guidance in the article, especially as these things can often change. Maybe we can have something like, budget airlines offer competitive rates on several routes, such as those operated between... and ... by....

Any thoughts?

Yoga Entry
The entry on yoga in the Do section provides no information for travelers to actually find a place offering yoga. Furthermore, after living three years just outside of Marrakech, I am quite sure that it is no more of an international yoga center than cities like New York, London, or Paris (none of which mention yoga on their pages). It seems terribly out of place, and if no one objects I'll remove it soon. (WT-en) Spmenic 22:57, 2 August 2008 (EDT)

 * Okay, I'm going to remove it. (WT-en) Spmenic 13:00, 17 August 2008 (EDT)

Text in an entry being chopped off lately, why?
Following a number of changes that were made to the original text for Riad Mur Akush, I originally thought that it was a competitor who was trying to start a “war”. The text kept getting chopped more and more and after I spend a couple of hours trying to see what was going on... Ah!! I realised it was not a competitor after all (for which I am very relieved as I am not into “wars” myself..): It was the administrator!

Dear Administrator, can you please give me some hints as to why the text was modified so much and maybe let me know what the criteria are for the text? I would like to improve the text from its current state to similar of the other entries but I do not want to step on anyone's toes. Grateful for your reply. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 78.150.19.39 (talk • contribs)

 * Listings as a rule should not have descriptions of more than 3-4 sentences. Also, please read carefully Project:Don't tout. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 05:00, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

 * I think that would be me. We are planning to feature this on the front page, and we need the sleep section not looking like an advertising brochure and more like a guidebook, before we can do so - don't worry, will get to your competitors too in good time. And as Peter said, don't tout is a good place to start. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 06:03, 22 April 2009 (EDT)

GetOut: duplicates GetIn
I wonder why we need "By plane" / "By train" / "By bus" in GetOut. Normally we put all such info into GetIn. Does Marrakech have a special reason not to do so? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 04:00, 1 October 2009 (EDT)

 * Just attemped to fix it myself: . --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:06, 9 October 2009 (EDT)

removed details on Riad Zara
I've reverted removal of most of the details on Riad Zara for the following reasons: --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:08, 2 October 2009 (EDT)
 * how rich/poor is choice for breakfast is a criteria for some travelers
 * asking for help in getting in is really important, as it's quite difficult to find without help, especially if you never experienced medinas at all
 * candles and wine around the pool tells much about the experience you can expect in the riad--better than more objective facts that were left in the description.

 * Fair enough, was doing a round of all the hotels, since we are likely to feature this soon. And I really don't like promotional language on articles we highlight. Of course this can be objective, so I guess it's all fine - I would like to add, that I deleted the paragraph, not because it was "un-factual" but because it was added by the hotel owner, I love personal descriptions like this of our hotels, I just don't trust hotel owners own fancy concepts. One thing though, if asking for directions is critical in the Medina, it should be noted in a introduction, not in the description of each and every Riad, so I re-reverted that part :) --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 16:46, 2 October 2009 (EDT)

 * This specific review was originally added by myself, and I don't remember it was ever edited by the owner. And I restored the piece on asking directions, now in introduction (I'm sure you were going to do that, just missed this piece :-) ). --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 17:18, 2 October 2009 (EDT)

 * Whoops, two slaps on the wrist for me. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 17:38, 2 October 2009 (EDT)

Why were the Tours in the Do section wiped clean on October 1?
Can someone please state the criteria for deleting listings in the Tours section? The prior listings were fairly recognized groups, and the ones that are included now are not necessarily more "Marrakech" than the ones that were deleted on October 1st. If there is a policy, please state it clearly. One could easily get the impression that the deletions were commercially motivated. If you are going to include one tour company that offers treks, 4x4, and Sahara excursions.....then why were all the others deleted? Many of those listings have been on the page for some time, and many were added by wikivoyage contributors (myself included). --(WT-en) Spmenic 07:11, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

 * I suggest you have a look at the relevant policy and also guidelines on touting. If after that you think some of the deleted tour listings meet the bar then reinstate them and others can then have an opinion.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 07:24, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

 * Thanks for the link; I've read over the policies. What I don't understand is why some listings were deleted and others not, when they seem to offer the same "value-added activity." In any case, I'm restoring the listing that I have personal experience with. I can't speak for all of them.--(WT-en) Spmenic 07:35, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

Removed "Tours" section entirely
I've removed the "Tour" section from this article entirely - it's not clear that any of the listed operators met the criteria outlined in Tour, most of the listed tours were for sights outside of Marrakech, and the section was becoming a magnet for spammy edits. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 12:06, 5 September 2010 (EDT)

 * I disagree with you here, though I do agree that like hotel, restaurant, and attraction listings, these tour listings can attract spam. I think deleting the entire section, however, is a bit like throwing the baby out with the bath water -- to use a cliché. I'm not sure how much time you've spent in Marrakech (I lived just outside the city for three years), but it is a normal part of a tourist visit to Marrakech to take day trips or even an overnight trip while still basically "based" in Marrakech -- especially out to the desert or the Atlas mountains. After looking over the Article Template section concerning "Get Out," I think that these "day-trip" tours might better be placed there. You are right to say that they are not properly in Marrakech, but I think removing them completely ignores how so many tourists spend a week in Marrakech -- splitting time between the city and one or two day excursions around it, all while based in Marrakech. As a second point, I think we need to have some type of better defined criteria for tour listings than what currently exists. You mentioned that it wasn't clear to you that the former listings met the criteria, but I can assure you that at least some of them did (see my post below). I agree that perhaps every tour doesn't meet the grade, but I don't think we are very helpful to travellers if we have no listings whatsoever for any day trips into the desert or Atlas mountains -- this is Marrakech after all! Perhaps we could set up some criteria that make it easier to tell the good from the bad: 1) can the activity be completed in a day? (or two?) 2) does it start and end in Marrakech, or at least provide transport that picks you up and drops you off in Marrakech? 3) is the activity one that is normally "based" out of Marrakech? 4) finally...and perhaps most importantly...is there a long-time Wikivoyage contributor (not just an owner) who has experienced it, has pictures of it, can vouch for it, and can vouch that it constitutes a "value-added" activity that a normal traveller couldn't do on his/her own? I think these discussion pages are too under-utilized, and perhaps we need to have a discussion when there is move to add (or remove) a listing (or set of listings) so that we maintain the community aspect of the wiki. On that note, I think (WT-en) Ryan makes a fair point about the listings not being part of Marrakech proper, but according to the Article Template they rightly belong in the "Get out" section. I'm going to restore the previous listings before the latest spam to that section and perhaps moving forward we can have a discussion about particular listings when someone wants to add/delete. (WT-en) Spmenic 15:04, 5 September 2010 (EDT)

 * There is nothing at all wrong with listing day trips in "Get out" - that's what the section is for - but a "day trip" is very different from a tour operator, and as far as I can tell there isn't any valid reason for listing every single tour agency that offers a guide, camel, jeep, etc for that trip. The Tour policy is explicitly designed to weed out travel agency listings for activities that a traveler with a decent guide book can complete on his/her own, and day trips, walking tours, and other similar activities fall under that umbrella.  To use an example that I'm more familiar with, there are all manner of tours operating from San Francisco to wine country, Muir Woods, Yosemite, etc, but we don't list the operators, we merely list suggested day trips and the linked articles then provide appropriate information about getting to/from/around the day-trip destination.  The same should be done here - if people visiting Marrakech typically take trips to the mountains, to specific camps, etc then list those under "Get out", but don't list every tour operator.  As to the four points you've raised above, those are probably best discussed on the Project:Activity listings page, which is where discussion about Wikivoyage's policy on tour operators should take place. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 15:27, 5 September 2010 (EDT)

 * Thanks for the discussion -- I appreciate the fact that you're engaging the points I'm trying to make. Without restoring the listings again, I'm going to try to explain why I think no tour listings, which appears to be your position, isn't a good one for the Marrakech page, even if it may be an appropriate position for other city pages like San Francisco:

 * 1) Some of these are value-added activities - I totally agree with you that we don't want "travel agency listings for activities that a traveler with a decent guide book can complete on his/her own." I disagree that all tour listings fit that criteria. Indeed, my suggestion was that individual listings be held up to some type of debate....perhaps on these discussion pages. This would take a lot of work on the part of contributors, but I'm inclined to think that the easy solution here (deleting all tour listings) is the one that least serves users, especially if we are committed to the first group of travellers mentioned on the Wikivoyages Goals Page. It is worthy noting, for example, that the actual Tour listings criteria mention "a camel expedition into the Sahara" as a valid activity for which a tour listing can be given!!! And yet you mention tour operators with camels as one example of a tour listing that you think shouldn't be included.
 * 2) Knowledge of what a traveller can do on his/her own is site specific - This point builds off the last. While it is reasonable to think that an English speaking traveller can tour Napa Valley on his/her own (using your example of wine country and San Francisco), I'm reluctant to think that the average English speaking traveller can manage a Sahara camel excursion on his/her own in Morocco or visit Berber villages in the Atlas mountains (where there are no restaurants or hotels) without the help of a tour operator. Both of these are examples of a value-added activity (I'm happy to explain why if it isn't clear to someone who hasn't experienced them), but that determination of whether a certain company's activity is indeed "value-added" is sometimes only able to be made by people who know the area -- and therefore know whether it is a reasonable expectation that a traveller can do it on his/her own. Your examples from San Francisco are perfect instances when a traveller could, but you know that because you know the area. I think people who know Marrakech should determine whether something is an activity that, in your words, "a traveler with a decent guide book can complete on his/her own."
 * 3) Nobody is arguing for "listing every single tour agency": I appreciated your response because it was clear and substantive (many discussion responses are not). However, to some degree you presented a "straw man" of my position by claiming that "there isn't any valid reason for listing every single tour agency that offers a guide, camel, jeep, etc." Later you claimed that it is good to present day trip destinations, but "don't list every tour operator." No one was arguing that "every single" tour company should be listed. Indeed, I was arguing that people who have experience with Marrakech would be capable of discussing whether tour operators constitute a value-added activity (according to the criteria of whether a traveller can reasonably be expected to be able to do the activity on his/her own).
 * 4) A listing may belong even if there is not be a perfect place for it on the Marrakech page: Your earlier post made the claim that some of the activities offered by the tour companies don't necessarily take place within Marrakech proper. I acknowledged that you were right and that is why I thought perhaps the "Get Out" section might be more appropriate simply because, topically, it seemed to fit better. However, you suggested that "destinations for day trips" in the "Get Out" section should only include links to those pages themselves, not any tour operator listings. Here's the problem: imagine (if only hypothetically for the moment) that there was, in fact, a value-added activity through a tour operator whose offices are in Marrakech and the depart point and return point for the activity are Marrakech, even if the activity itself isn't properly within the Marrakech city limits (for example, out in the desert or mountains surrounding Marrakech). Where should such a listing be? The policy states that the tour operator's office has to be located in the city of the page it is on...so it can't rightly be listed in the middle of the desert or in some village of the mountains. The value-added activity is properly a "Marrakech" activity if it begins and ends there (assuming it is a value-added activity and not merely something the tourist could do on his/her own). You can't rightly tell a tourist to simply travel to the desert and then find a camel excursion. All the camel excursions into the desert depart from somewhere. Admittedly, there are other cities from which they also depart, but many companies are based out of Marrakech and operate exclusively from there. The same is especially true of tour companies that bring travellers into the Atlas mountains...by Wikivoyage policies, they could only rightly be listed in Marrakech because that's where their offices are and that is where transport departs and returns. Again, I'm speaking about companies that provide a value-added activity, not generic travel agencies or companies that put together two week trips with transportation, lodging, and food all figured out.
 * All of the above said, I think deleting the entire "Tours" section from the page was a bit too strong a reaction to the recent spam. Blacklisting the offending site (as you did) was appropriate and helpful -- thanks. From my experience of Marrakech, however, I think that there are some value-added activities provided by "tour" companies that are rightly based in Marrakech and rightly listed on the Marrakech page. My instinct is that they were correctly located in the "Do" section -- where they have resided for a few years. I'm not sure if you would be willing to discuss the listings individually since you think none of them constitute a value-added activity (even though, as I stated above, a camel expedition is actually mentioned in Tours). In any case, you have more power than I do, but as someone who has contributed to the Marrakech page for a few years, I think there should be some section with listings for appropriate value-added activities. The section has been there for a long time now and many people, admins included, haven't suggested removing it completely. I know this is a rather long response, but I hope you see it as a good-will gesture towards keeping the Marrakech page as helpful as possible and not as an affront to your good judgement. Thanks. (WT-en) Spmenic 21:08, 5 September 2010 (EDT)

 * We may be disagreeing less on substance and more on whether this content belongs in the Marrakech article. I agree with you that a traveler is unlikely to be able to "manage a Sahara camel excursion on his/her own in Morocco or visit Berber villages in the Atlas mountains".  However, such trips aren't specific to Marrakech anymore than a wine country tour is specific to San Francisco.  Again, using the San Francisco example, the way such tours are listed are:

 * There is a pointer to Napa Valley in San Francisco. This listing includes a brief description of why a traveler might want to visit Napa, what they would see, etc.  There are no business listings since those belong in separate articles.
 * The Napa Valley article has links to things like the Napa Valley Wine Train, various wineries, etc. The city articles linked from the Napa Valley article contain even more specific listings.

 * Regarding your fourth point above, something like a camel expedition or a trip to a Berber camp may originate in Marrakech and should thus be mentioned in the "Get out" section, but the business is really just providing transportation to/from a location, and thus really belongs in the "Get in" section of whatever article is appropriate. Consider the alternative: if we list every tour company based in Marrakech we would end up with dozens if not hundreds of listings, with no way to differentiate them.  It's much cleaner (and follows examples in other articles) to provide a bullet list of places people typically go, and within those articles list options for getting to/from that destination.  To use another example from the US: while there are any number of bus companies offering tours from Las Vegas to the Grand Canyon, that information is most useful in the "Get in" section of the Grand Canyon article, despite the companies being based in Las Vegas.  As a result we mention the Grand Canyon in Las Vegas, but don't include listings for the various tour operators that run buses there. (Note: in this specific example, we actually trimmed individual tour listings from Grand Canyon since they are so ubiquitous and there isn't really anything to differentiate between companies, but the rest of the example matches the Marrakech use-case).

 * Regarding the specific tour listings that were removed, here are my objections:

 * The first is a tour company offering trips to Berber Camps. Since the camps aren't in Marrakech this information belongs in a different article, although noting that Marrakech is a good departure point for trips to Berber camps, and then linking to the appropriate article(s), is fine.
 * The second simply says "hot air balloons". This listing may or may not be OK according to our policies, but it isn't clear that the company listed operates the balloon tour, there is too little information provided to know why to choose this operator, and given the spamminess of other listings it seemed best to err on the side of de-spamming.
 * The third is a bike tour. Typically bike tours and walking tours are removed if we start getting questionable tour listings since they are borderline for a "value-added activity".  See Project:Activity listings for previous discussions on this issue.
 * The fourth is a non-descript travel company offering "Good oportunity to explore the mountains around Marrakech". This doesn't meet the "cannot fulfill the substance on your own" criteria, and looks likely to be a reseller to me.
 * The fifth is an adventure touring outfit. I find it unlikely that this is not a reseller, given the array of options from hot air balloons to rafting to quad rental.
 * The sixth is camel trekking. This listing should go in another article since the trek does not take place in Marrakech, but linking to the appropriate article from the "Get out" section would be helpful.
 * The last one offers "4x4 tours or Camel treks tours in the Sahara desert, including Sand boarding. Also has trips to the Atlas Mountains, and will organise skiing trips". Again, this should go in the article for the destination being visited, not Marrakech.

 * Hopefully that's clear. I'm not opposed to all of the tour listings, but they should be included in the appropriate article and not here.  A key tenet of the Project:Don't tout guideline is that businesses should be listed once and only in the article in which they operate, and in the case of the businesses above I'd argue strongly that Marrakech is not the appropriate place for them to be listed. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 21:50, 5 September 2010 (EDT)

Deleted Tour Listings
I'm still not sure (see entry directly above) of the criteria for deleting a tour listing that very clearly adds a value-added activity according to the relevant policy. It isn't a tout because I am the one who added it years ago after living in Morocco for three years as a Peace Corps volunteer and now living back in the U.S. as a high school teacher. I think it is a particularly valuable addition because it actually lets travelers encounter Moroccan culture firsthand -- something Peace Corps volunteers get to do when living in a country but the average traveler has little luck doing. I'll be honest, balloon rides and rafting are great, but they're not necessarily distinctive to Morocco or Moroccan culture -- indeed, the average Moroccan has never been ballooning or white water rafting! So I'm going to replace the listing and I'm happy to have a discussion about it. --(WT-en) Spmenic 14:47, 25 June 2010 (EDT) 14:46, 25 June 2010 (EDT)

airport taxis
I am not sure that "It also avoids hassle, as it's not always easy to haggle with a taxi driver after staggering off a long plane ride half-asleep" in ref to Grands taxis is very accurate. True that applies if you book through your hotel. But if you have not prebooked and have luggage and a family you will need a Grand Taxi. From memory all the Grand Taxi drivers are a bunch of crooks and we need to give some indicative prices here. (WT-en) Shep 02:49, 23 January 2011 (EST)

Magnificent Morocco Listing
I have had some trouble with putting my listing on this site, and unfortunately it caused some confusion due to my lack of knowledge of Wikivoyage. I believe that my business should be listed as we offer a range of different camel treks through the desert with the option of packing a tent and staying overnight with a guide, camel treks through the dunes to bivouac camps and 4x4 or quad bike desert tours also. —The preceding comment was added by Magnificent Morocco (talk • contribs)

 * Also see relevant discussion at User talk:Magnificent Morocco. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:00, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

 * I expressed my views there, so I will not post to the same effect here. I'd rather hear from the rest of you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:46, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

 * Based on the descriptions on the web site it appears that this company offers guided tours to places that travelers could otherwise reach on their own, and thus would not be suitable for listing in Wikivoyage articles per WV:Tour. In addition, if the only thing the user wants to contribute is a listing for his tour company then that runs afoul of the guidelines against using Wikivoyage to promote a business or service. User:Magnificent Morocco is of course welcome to contribute other content to articles. -- Ryan • (talk) • 02:08, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

 * User:Magnificent Morocco says they have desert trekking tours, including camel treks. Wouldn't those be "value added" tours under our policies? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:14, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

 * The user's only contribution is for an "educational tour", and the tours I saw on the web site were mainly guided tours. As to camel treks, those are arranged treks with someone else who owns the camel, and thus reselling a tour, right? If the listing was being added by a traveler who had visited Morocco and was adding content based on their experiences then more leeway would seem warranted, but since the motivation behind this listing is apparently to promote the user's business, and since that listing is (at best) a borderline case, I'd suggest that Wikivoyage might not be the appropriate place for it. -- Ryan • (talk) • 02:26, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

 * I don't know if these are resales of camel tours. I think we should also consider whether the I Go Morocco listing, which is now at the end of "Do" should be deleted for the same reason you consider it a bad idea to allow Magnificent Morocco to be listed. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:31, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

La Mamounia
w:La Mamounia (wikidata:Q3210501; website), listed in Grand old hotels, seems to be missing. I know neither the hotel nor Marrakech, so am not confident in adding the listing, but I assume it should be added. –LPfi (talk) 10:58, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Marrakech


text:
Talk:Marriage in China

Text moved here from China article. See Talk:China for rationale. (WT-en) Pashley 01:12, 22 December 2006 (EST)

Is the form you need to read when saying oaths, Chinese or English ? How about the interviews ? In other words can you get married when you don't know Chinese ? -peirz

Marriage in China not an accurate title for this article
This article is not about Marriage in China.

It is for one particular group of people, namely:

Citizens of another country who wish to marry Chinese citizens and then return to their home country with their Chinese spouses.

I don't believe that it's separated usefully for all purposes, but all the same the title of the article is very misleading.

There are two options that I can see. Either
 * a: the title of the article should be changed to reflect its true nature, or
 * b: the article should be restructured and expanded to include all three possibilities, namely:
 * 1: Citizens of China who get married in China.
 * 2: Citizens of another country who want to marry Chinese citizens and then take up residence in China with their spouse.
 * 3: Citizens of another country who want to marry Chinese citizens and then return to their home country with their Chinese spouse.

 * Of course, you might be able to restrict the choices to #2 and #3, but you'd still have to change the article title to something along the lines of "Marriage in China for Foreign Nationals".

But there still difficulties with either option.
 * a: If the title is changed, it must be concise but accurate.
 * b: If the article is expanded, will it become too unwieldy? Will the subject need to be split into several articles anyway?

What do you think?

 * I see your point, but we could also consider if we really need to change the article name. All articles are written for travellers, so it could be argued that it goes without saying that the article is about foreigners, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 05:56, 11 March 2010 (EST)

VFD
This article was nominated for deletion and eventually deleted. The discussion is archived at Votes_for_deletion/March_2013. Pashley (talk) 01:57, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Marriage in China


text:
Talk:Marsaxlokk

Marsaxlokk este cel mai mare sat pescaresc maltez si va asigur ca este un loc minunat. Merita vizitat

title: Talk:Marsaxlokk