text:
Talk:Tipping

Intent with this page
I created this page because it is or should be important to travellers. I compiled it from my notes and from new and older versions of wikipedia, because wikipedia is deleting valuable material because it is unsourced and "original research" ( read added by locals who know the customs).

Please help by checking, correcting and adding stuff for your own country or countries you are familiar with the customs.

Another idea is leaving the general info here, and including the country specific information to the countries and addin a link there to the generic info ( if doing that I would prefer a seperate section for it). But i'm not sure if that would be better or worse. Any thougts or inputs? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) User:Swissbelg (talk • contribs)

 * Great travel topic idea! Local tipping customs is a question for me everywhere I travel, and it would be nice to have this as a detailed, comprehensive reference. I'll do a bit of work at least on the U.S. conventions. (By the way, you can auto-sign your posts by typing four tildes at the end like so: ~ .) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:07, 6 January 2011 (EST)

 * Inas suggested that we move the country specific info to the country articles, which i find a very good idea. My only problem is that there is not really an appropriate section. The topic belongs to "Buy", "Eat", "Drink", "Sleep", and especially also to "Respect" in certain countries. A Solution could be an own section, the question is, is it important enough for that? I know to some travellers it is, to others not. It certainly would raise the possibility that someone adds content if there is an empty topic. Thoughts anyone? (WT-en) Swissbelg 06:21, 7 January 2011 (EST)

 * It's own section I don't think is a good idea. In the United States of America article, it is under Buy, which makes perfect sense as tipping is always done when buying. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 11:18, 9 January 2011 (EST)

 * All good to me. Anyway i'm gonna watch this page for a while before moving stuff to see if it gets used and updated and till i have time to move all the stuff at once. (WT-en) Swissbelg 09:36, 22 January 2011 (EST)

 * Leave it to the New Zealand section to make tipping advice a pretense for bashing the United States. Americans did not invent tipping, and besides, no one would think that Egyptian tipping customs are some broad indictment of Egyptian society! 69.171.160.101

$1 per 2 drinks in the US?
Wherever I've been in the US, that's been a disgraceful, even hostile tip. But I didn't want to simply revert an edit without discussion. Are there really parts of the US where it's actually acceptable in 2011 to tip so low in cheap bars? If so, where? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 05:03, 5 July 2011 (EDT)

Spare time any American?
MOVED HERE FROM TRAVELLER'S PUB I did an article on Tipping, any of you Americans have a little spare time to check the US part of it. For me this part is rather complicated ;-) —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Swissbelg (talk • contribs)
 * A link to the article would be useful. (WT-en) LtPowers 16:30, 6 January 2011 (EST)
 * I am sooo sorry ;-) ---> Tipping <---         (WT-en) Swissbelg 17:06, 6 January 2011 (EST)
 * Seriously, why don't we put this information in the relevant country articles. What use is a common travel topic like this?  It just duplicates stuff, we already have a USA, which is a good guide.  Similarly Australia --(WT-en) inas 17:42, 6 January 2011 (EST)
 * Oh, the usual "everything is a bad idea" fraction is awake;-). Feel free to read the discussion page as well. The "Understand" section is the most important part btw, and copying that into every article is not so practical... (WT-en) Swissbelg 18:10, 6 January 2011 (EST)
 * I don't accept that my opinion is that everything is a bad idea, and I do find that aside offensive. I have read the article, and the discussion.  You are asking for someone from the U.S. to review information on tipping in a new article, when many many people from the U.S and elsewhere have already worked collaboratively to make the current USA section. Have you read that section of the USA article? --(WT-en) inas 19:05, 6 January 2011 (EST)
 * Good, that was intentional. Just wanted to take the needle out and sting back. I find your comment unappreciating and showing of not much collaborative spirit. What about "Nice work, but did you know there is already..."? No i didn't, I searched for tipping and results were nill. In most countries there is nothing about it, And there was also no travel topic about it, so i thought i "plunge forward". The Travel topic is meant as complementary background information, not just a list of "tip that much for this service, tip that much for that service". If you personally don't need this information, don't read it. (WT-en) Swissbelg 21:11, 6 January 2011 (EST)
 * I have no wish to prick anyone with needles, nor do I feel I have been stung. If I inadvertantly offended you I am sorry to have done so.  I was merely trying to make my point concisely, so again, apologies if you saw my comment as terse.
 * However, I am still criticising the need for an article in the current form, so please do not take it personally.
 * Okay, back to the topic at hand. Now that we are both aware of the tipping sections in the articles, do you see the my reasoning for not duplicating that info?  It is true enough that many articles don't have sections on tipping, but there is certainly nothing stopping us adding the info if we have it.  Maybe we can modify the tipping article so it makes users aware of the tipping sections in the travel guides.   --(WT-en) inas

 * Sorry as well,i didn't mean it that seriously. To the topic: I stated in the discussion part myself that i collected the information, and now we should find a place for it. I find your idea perfect to move it to the articles and making the users aware of it in there. Details we can discuss over the there in Talk:Tipping. (WT-en) Swissbelg 06:10, 7 January 2011 (EST)

 * Avoiding duplication with tipping information in destination guides is certainly sensible. But there are two advantages to the separate tipping article that I would prefer not to lose: 1) it is clear for which countries we lack the info, which should encourage a more rapid development of that information; 2) when necessary, we can have longer, more detailed sections. Point two could be satisfied by perhaps only splitting the information out for the most complex tipping cultures (basically, just the U.S.). --(WT-en) Peter Talk 23:16, 8 January 2011 (EST)

I don't see how having a travel topic makes it clear at all whether we have the info or not. There could be info in the travel topic, and not in the article, or info in the article, but not in the travel topic. This is the issue with duplicating info in two places. On a small site with limited resources, updating the info back and forth is a bad use of scarce resource, and likely to fall out of date quickly. --(WT-en) inas 17:05, 9 January 2011 (EST)

 * Peter has a point there. In an article people are not explicitly looking for it, in a travel topic they are. People have already started adding information btw. I don't know too much about the software behind wiki, i guess there is no way to link both together? (WT-en) Swissbelg 04:59, 10 January 2011 (EST)

 * There are bits of magic within mediawiki can interpolate text, but they aren't pretty or easy to maintain, and we don't generally use them here.
 * Some things, like Scuba diving, are another way of looking at travel. You can look at the places to dive and then decide on where to go.  Tipping isn't like that - it is a fact about the destination.

 * Oh, but you can do that, that's why i don't travel to the US ;-P (Just kidding) (WT-en) Swissbelg 10:00, 14 January 2011 (EST)

 * So I dispute that people aren't going to be specifically looking for it in a destination guide. It is exactly where people will go to find out information about tipping at a destination.   --(WT-en) inas 23:33, 10 January 2011 (EST)

 * Once again:i have no problems moving it to the articles, i just wanted to discuss it with you guys first. Mind if i move this discussion to the page's talk page? (WT-en) Swissbelg 10:00, 14 January 2011 (EST)

 * In my opinion, I think both viewpoints have merit, and don't have to be mutually exclusive. I like this article as an overview of tipping practices. I also think having info at specific location articles would be useful. I think the goal of having info available is more important that worrying about having a bit of duplication in more than one place, so let's have the info both here and in the country/location articles where practical. (WT-en) Infrogmation 15:12, 11 August 2011 (EDT)

Duplication between this article and country articles
I updated Tipping, but since that same information is needed in Madagascar I simply copied the info to the country article. It seems that this approach would be the same for all countries, with text needing to be copied verbatim in two places. Instead of having two pages that will likely get out of sync quickly, would it make sense to have a single source of content for each country that is then transcluded into both articles? Something like:

 * Tipping/Madagascar

...that would then be included under both Tipping and Madagascar as follows:

The upside of this approach is that you only have to edit content in one place for each country, and the info would stay in sync. The downside is that it is slightly more difficult to edit the content since someone who edits from anywhere other than the tipping section heading will need to track down the actual content source in the sub-page - for example: if you click "edit" from Madagascar instead of Madagascar then you would see in the source, instead of the actual text about tipping (note, however, that clicking "edit" next to the "Tipping" sub-section should take you directly to the tipping content on the sub-page). Thoughts? Can we give it a try for Madagascar as an example and see what people think? -- Ryan • (talk) • 16:55, 20 October 2014 (UTC)

 * Given the lack of objection I created Tipping/Madagascar and implemented it for both Tipping and Madagascar. The implementation could use a bit of cleanup to ensure that any further usage is standardized, but otherwise this seems like a nice way to ensure that content stays in sync.  Thoughts or comments? -- Ryan • (talk) • 14:30, 21 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Could we discuss this in traveller's pub. I see your point on not having to type twice but this creates a whole new set of page types which we need to decide how to track. --Traveler100 (talk) 10:32, 23 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Comments solicited from Pub. I've also implemented the experimental Template:Tipping content as a template that is now used by Tipping/Madagascar to demonstrate how other countries could implement the same functionality. -- Ryan • (talk) • 13:59, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

I'm worried that this approach is overly complex; it makes it harder for novice editors to edit these sections. But moreover, I think it glosses over the real issue: unnecessary duplication. I don't see any point to having an article (this one) that simply duplicates the Tipping sections of various country articles. No one is ever going to use (or need to read) all of the content in this article, which is a strong indicator that the article needs to have a more general focus rather than drilling into specifics. Powers (talk) 14:36, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

 * I agree. The country specifics belong in the country articles. I think what should be in this article is what types of customs exist, in very general terms, mostly so that a traveller realizes the local customs have to be checked, but also as entertaining reading and a general intro for somebody going to visit many countries. Customs common for groups of countries could perhaps be described referring to the group, but such references should not break the text flow. --LPfi (talk) 16:56, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

 * This approach would help the redundancy of content seen in the new Water article. Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:37, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

 * I mostly agree, although I can see a use for the content at Water: a reader might want to select a destination that has drinkable water. That's a bit of a stretch, though. Powers (talk) 23:16, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

 * If I'm reading the above discussion correctly (as well as previous discussions on this talk page), the next step would be to move all of the country-specific info to the Buy → Tipping sub-section of the country articles? If that's the case then the proposed solution for duplicate content would be unnecessary.  Are there any objections to that approach, or alternate proposals? -- Ryan • (talk) • 15:15, 24 October 2014 (UTC)

 * I support moving all the country specifics to the country articles and making this just an overview. Texugo (talk) 12:29, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

 * Per the above, I've deleted my proposed template and sub-page and begun moving the country-specific tipping information to the country pages. I finished moving content for Africa - if anyone wants to help out with other countries please do so. -- Ryan • (talk) • 02:55, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

 * ✅ -- Ryan • (talk) • 02:27, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

Where to take this article
I assume there was once a list of countries and their tipping habits, that has now been taken out of the article. As it is now it will probably never be more than an outline, as there is only so much to say about tipping in general without giving specific examples of specific countries (which the text already kinda does and then doesn't). So here is my question: Where do we want this article to go? What should or shouldn't be in it and should or should it not be deleted and replaced by sections on tipping in country region or city articles? Best wishes Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:43, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

 * One thought: It could mention different ways to tip. In different countries, or different types of establishments/services in one country, it might be typical to leave tips in a jar on a counter, leave them on the table when you leave, mention them when paying by card, write them on the receipt when paying by card, hand them to someone on your way out, or just say "keep the change". Even without a list of specific countries, the article could discuss this diversity. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:40, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

 * And one for yourself? K7L (talk) 14:25, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

 * Sorry, I don't understand what you mean—have I misunderstood something because of an English variation issue? Or have I been unclear because of it? —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:52, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

 * In a British pub, the expression "And one for yourself?" refers to a gratuity offered to a server, equivalent in value to the price of one serving of beer or ale, when buying a round of drinks. The concept is very much regional. K7L (talk) 16:10, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

 * Evidently so—I'm so unfamiliar with the practice that I couldn't figure out what your comment meant! Sounds like it would be worth including in the article. —Granger (talk · contribs) 16:25, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Bribing vendors in an attempt to get service?
I see this has been added again:
 * (Conversely, you as a foreigner can even work the system to your advantage: defying locals' low expectations by tipping appropriately often results in better service than a local would get by giving the same amount!)

Please, no, don't do this. All you are doing is inflating expectations even further – so that an inflated gratuity becomes merely a commission or an entitlement, not an earned reward – ensuring that the next traveller will be be treated very rudely if they do not share your penchant for trying to buy respect locally.

In the long run, you're making things worse not only for yourself but also for the next voyager. Don't start an "arms race" to see who can bribe the server the most, or it will merely become accepted behaviour with the traveller as the ultimate loser. K7L (talk) 01:32, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

 * I don't think that is what is meant here. If for example a German goes to the US, those that have any expectations will expect them to tip lower than is US custom (10% would be considered a normal to generous tip in Germany and often the tip is just "rounding up", especially for small orders). Hence a German tipping according to US standards (what are they? 15-20%? More?) will likely get better service by service people who know of that than an American. However, I'd like to hear from actual waiters or waitresses from e.g. Germany, whether they give better service to Americans (because they might get a 20% tip then) or worse (because Americans "tip anyway") Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:49, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

 * What Hobbitschuster said. I wrote that passage from the perspective of a foreigner visiting the U.S. (and clarified it as such since whatever version of the page you copied the passage of text from). This site, and this particular article more than most, deals in realism rather than idealism - and the reality is that a foreign tourist who refuses on principle to tip a U.S. service-sector worker (or to modulate their tips to U.S. expectations) in order to make some kind of ethical statement, as K7L seems to be hinting at, is not going to singlehandedly bring an end to the phenomenon of tipping. All he's going to do is piss people off and, more than likely, get bad service on any future occasion he choose to eat there. Whatever your feelings about it, whether you think it constitutes bribery or not, tipping is a fact of life in U.S. culture and is not going anywhere - and as long as that's true, you may as well know how to play the game (and, in the case of the passage at issue, work the system to your advantage). -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:23, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

 * In that case, this is very poorly worded. The tone reads a bit too much like "if you slip the maître d'hotel €20, you will likely be seated ahead of patrons who are already waiting" because this is written very euphemistically. Saying "just keep forking over the tips in order to get all this great service" is merely a way to disguise something entirely different as the actual meaning, namely "We go out of our way to pay our workers badly. If you're willing to make up for this by tipping $10 to the server who just brought you undercooked steak, we may attempt give you normal service. Object or tip poorly, and we will make our best effort to be rude enough that you choose to never visit our fine establishment again. Thank you." Euphemism, like sarcasm, risks being badly misunderstood when directed at an international audience. For that reason, it does not work well in a travel guide. K7L (talk) 17:05, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

 * I honestly don't know where you're seeing euphemism here, or anything like the hyperexaggerated scenarios between the quotation marks in your above comment. In fact, I very scrupulously used the phrase "tip appropriately", as in "follow the procedure that would be expected of an average customer, i.e. a local". Respectfully, it sounds like you're reading this passage through the prism of your own vehement opposition to the way tipping works in the U.S. - which you have a right to, and which I don't necessarily disagree with - but regardless, that type of personal opinion is what doesn't really have a place in a travel guide, at least in this kind of article. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 17:54, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Since restaurant tips are given at the end of the meal, I think this would be more applicable to bars, where at least $1 a drink is expected in the U.S., and if you tip extra for cocktails that are labor-intensive, you may get better or happier service. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:31, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

 * I agree with K7L that the sentence was confusing, and I've tried to rephrase it to make the intended meaning clearer. —Granger (talk · contribs) 23:10, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure I like the new wording. Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:36, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

 * The change in wording seems like a lateral move to me, but if it works as a compromise I'm fine with it. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 00:36, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

25% tips?
We had this discussion in Talk:United States of America. There is no city in the United States where a tip of more than 20% is expected. I would request for the map in this article to be edited accordingly. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:24, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

 * Also, no African countries are covered on the map except for Egypt, reminding me of European maps of "Darkest Africa" (of course a racist imperialist concept), so that's quite objectionable and needs to be corrected. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:26, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

 * I feel the lack of detail on Africa is due to nobody who put work into the map having been there long enough to say anything of note. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:50, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

 * On that note, I do know the tipping customs of Nicaragua. In the most bare-bones establishments (your roadside comedor or fritanga where the "menu" is whatever the server can remember from the top of their head) there won't be any tip expected but you are free to if you feel like it (though you might get "crazy chele" looks). In more midscale restaurants and above - basically anything that pays tax - you will see the prices inflated by 15% "IVA" (which some menus list, but the majority do not) and a 10% "propina voluntaria" which is sure as hell not "voluntary" in any real sense and which you may round up if you feel like it, but should never even think of rounding down... As for how you put it in the map, probably "10%, expected" Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:54, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Pane e coperto
As I recall from trips to Italy in the 90s, this was a nominal fee and was standard. I could see that it could be a scam if it were a large fee, but I never saw a large fee for that line item on the receipt. I think that may call for an edit to Common scams, too, but I'd love to hear other views. I note the remarks at Italy:

''Restaurants always used to charge a small coperto (cover charge). Some years ago attempts were made to outlaw the practice, with limited success. The rule now seems to be that if you have bread a coperto can be charged but if you specifically say that you don't want bread then no coperto can be levied. This has happened mainly because of backpackers who sat at a table, occupied it for an hour by just ordering a drink or a salad and consuming enormous amounts of bread.''

Doesn't sound like a scam to me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:34, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

 * The scam was that it wasn't clearly disclosed to the client up front, merely stealthily tacked onto the bill afterward, so in no meaningful sense did the voyager consent to this. In other words, an unauthorised hidden charge which can be (and has been) abused to inflate the total cost. K7L (talk) 02:34, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

 * It wasn't disclosed in advance, but my Italian friends considered it completely normal - a minimal charge for bread and service which they normally added a couple of coins to. Sales tax isn't disclosed in advance in the U.S., and neither are service charges such as are typically charged to large parties. Do you consider those fraudulent? They aren't. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:39, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

 * Giving yourself a tip with someone else's money, if it wasn't disclosed in advance or the client did not consent, is fraudulent. Sorry. K7L (talk) 11:44, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

 * Well Nicaraguans (where the "precios no incluyen IVA" thing is frequently pulled, too) know that prices come with a 25% (tax+tip) surcharge, so would you consider it fraudulent when the bill comes due and your meal is a quarter more expensive there? Italians probably know to expect the pane e coperto thing... Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:53, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

 * My Italian friends explained it to me. Fraud is a legal term, and it doesn't cover customary charges that are legal and expected. Maybe things are a bit different in Italy now that there has been some kind of attempt to regulate pane e coperto, but it doesn't look like the charge itself is fraudulent, only attempts to overcharge for it. And K7L, if you think that every freakin restaurant and cafe has to disclose the charge for service to you ahead of time and it's fraudulent when they all charge you for service, never travel to France. I'd like to see the results of your trying to dispute the charge. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:59, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Grocery store baggers?
In what country are people who merely put items in bags, rather than delivering them, tipped? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:12, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

 * Chile, at least. I don't know if it's done in any other countries. —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:36, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

 * Interesting. I didn't know that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:03, 27 March 2018 (UTC)

Georgia and Armenia
If the map in the article is correct, tipping policies in Caucasus vary from one extreme to the other. According to it, in Georgia you should never tip in restaurants but in next-door Armenia you're expected to tip almost as generously as in America. Ceever, you apparently have some knowledge about the region, so maybe you can tell if this is really true. Ypsilon (talk) 17:29, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
 * In the past, my impression of that map was that it was not very accurate. I don't know about the Caucasus though. —Granger (talk · contribs) 00:23, 27 October 2019 (UTC)

Map
The map on this page appears incredibly misleading. Some of the definitions are patently incorrect, and are not borne out by its cited sources. (e.g. Australia) Given how misleading it could be, and the fact that this information should be available on each destination's pages here on WikiVoyage, I feel it should either be scrapped from this page, or undergo a major overhaul. 60.240.238.212 06:41, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Could you specify the errors? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:53, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
 * There are two other sections above where people have raised concerns about the map as well. My feeling is that it should probably be removed as unreliable and unnecessary. Country-by-country tipping customs can be covered in country articles. —Granger (talk · contribs) 17:35, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree that there are issues with the map. I've lived in Australia before, and tipping is generally not practised in Australia. The waiters are well-paid, and all prices you see on the menu are inclusive of service and taxes, so Australians generally don't tip, and what you see is what you pay. This applies even in the poshest fine dining restaurants. Likewise, people basically did not tip when I visited New Zealand. The dog2 (talk) 19:16, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, I won't stand in the way of the map's removal. Best not to spread inaccurate information. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:17, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Weirdly, none has notified me, who created the map and added it to the article. Dear Granger, The dog2, Ikan Kekek, I had tried to gather information from people and articles on the internet as accurate as I could. Why remove it, if the map just could have been updated with more correct info? I always thought, this was the main wiki-principle — to improve information, not to remove inaccurate one. Soshial (talk) 06:36, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I never remember who made a map. However, the map presumably still exists on Commons, and if not, I'd be happy to undelete it so as to facilitate your editing it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:58, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Nice, then I would love to hear which category would Australia and New Zealand belong to. Soshial (talk) 08:48, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I'll leave that to people who know. My feeling is, if there's a consensus on tipping culture in different countries, by all means edit the map and reinsert the thumbnail here, and thank you! Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:51, 4 September 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tipping


text:
Talk:Tips for flying

All discussions previously found here have now been moved to Talk:Flying.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Tips for flying


text:
Talk:Hitchhiking

Links
Don't know whether to add these to the article or to create a new article... For now I'll just add them here. (WT-en) Guaka 13:03, 6 May 2004 (EDT)

 * http://australia.bugride.com/

Allostop is in French only and asks a little fee for every successfull ride.

compartir.org is a bit dated, but still contains some offers for a ride.

http://mitfahrgelegenheit.de is free and works quite well. You have to pay for getting rides with mitfahrzentrale.de and it is a bit more complicated.

Hospitality Club link
I've removed the Hospitality Club link. I don't believe it meets our standards for using external links. --(WT-en) Evan 12:37, 8 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * I didnt add it :-) But just readded it. Could you give some reasons why it doesnt meet those standards??

 * Mostly that it's not a first source. --(WT-en) Evan 12:15, 9 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * What's a first source about hitchhiking? Not hitchhikers?? (WT-en) Veit 17:53, 9 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * I added the link in the first place, and I think it is a first source. It's also a good place to get more first source information. So I put back the link. (WT-en) Guaka 09:45, 19 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Getting too specific?
I was going to comment that the latest addition, a mention of where it's good to get a ride in Berlin, is the first step to this article becoming a huge list of hitching places, rather than general advice. Which made me think that even the countries are too specific. Shouldn't advice (on anything) that applies to a specific region should go in that region's article? In this case, tips on hitching in Italy should go in Italy's Get around/By car (thumb) section. All the more since this article is an orphan. -- (WT-en) Paul Richter 19:27, 12 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * Agreed that Berlin tip is ways too specific. I'm not even sure I would let it be in Berlin article. As of the countries, I quite like having a short summary. Perhaps it could be made into a table though and the more precise details transfered to the country articles. But the subjectivity of this data makes it hard to write: France 7/10, Germany 8/10, Spain 4/10, Belgium 6/10... (WT-en) Valmi 09:42, 14 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * It's very specific, but it should be somewhere on Wikivoyage... Hitching out of big cities is quite hard and it would be nice to list good spots like this one.
 * An orphan? (WT-en) Guaka 19:06, 14 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * And the region article is precisely where it should go. It's much more likely that a traveler will want to know if it's worthwhile to hitch in and out of a certain city/country (and will look for hitching information in the city article), than choose a destination based on how easy it is to hitch (after looking over this list of regions ranked on hitchability).

 * This article's an orphan -- there are no pages linked to it, so it's extremely unlikely that anyone will ever browse to it. So the solution might be to link to this page from city articles...but then you'd just as well put the hitching info in the city article itself. -- (WT-en) Paul Richter 10:08, 15 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * I agree. I think the best place to put place-specific hitching info is at the destination guide. So, like, Germany would be a good place to put hitching info for Germany. Berlin might be a good place to put info on good places to get a ride. --(WT-en) Evan 11:27, 15 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * I agree as well. I see people thinking "I'm going to Berlin can I hitch there?" Not "I want to go hitchhiking, what city should I go to?" The more general travel topic advice should stay, and the hh mentions in the cities should link here... (WT-en) Majnoona 13:28, 15 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * Disagreed, having minimal country-specific info about hitchhiking in a general hitchhiking article makes sense because hitchhikers do pick the countries they visit according to whether they'll be able to move around there. -- (WT-en) Valmi 17:41, 15 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * Well there are already databases of hitchhiking places on the Web, and I doubt we are going to compete with those. -- (WT-en) Valmi 17:41, 15 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * Then we can certainly have a list of hitchhiking ratings/info by country for avid hitchhikers. But the info should go in the region articles first and be duplicated or summarized from there. Also, I think the list should be separate from the general advice article.-- (WT-en) Paul Richter 04:36, 16 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * The place in Berlin was probably better than the place I found at autostopguide.com, and I don't know of any other. If you do: please add it to the article. (WT-en) Guaka 14:27, 16 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * I don't know about other international databases of this quality, but I still think if you have such a specific hint that you should add it to this sort databases, not to Wikivoyage. Anyhow I was just about to move the hint from here to Berlin and I realised you had copied it already, so I just took it out here. -- (WT-en) Valmi 10:41, 19 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * autostopguide.com is a commercial project, not available under a free license. So I don't feel like adding information there. (WT-en) Guaka 11:22, 19 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * A year and a half later. There's a hitchhiking wiki now. It is under a free license (though not compatible with Wikivoyage) and it's longing for very specific knowledge :) Stuff that doesn't really fit well in Wikivoyage, or at least, it will be hard to find it in Wikivoyage, and hard to know where to put what exactly. (WT-en) Guaka 20:12, 27 Dec 2005 (EST)

Nuking time
I'm going to replace the country-specific info with one (1) single Europe-style table with a very very short summary for each and linking to hitching sections in the countries in question. Speak now or forever hold your peace. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:30, 6 Oct 2005 (EDT)

 * Silence means death. I've started dismembering the page content, please help me out by doing the same for Hitchhiking in Europe. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:21, 16 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Single Occupant vs Groups.
I reverted the removal of :

 * Choose a car with a single occupant or a couple rather than the last seat in a car full of people.

by (WT-en) Sherurcij. Who comments was removing "travel in a car with a single driver, not a group", I think most hitchhikers would agree that is *less* safe

Here is my logic. A group of people in a car are likely to all know each other. They are more likely to gang up on you and 1 against 3 or 4 are poor odds. A single person is going to be driving, so will be occupied by driving; while a couple (as in male/female) are likely to be in a relationship and also sit in the front while you are in the back. In both cases if you are attacked you stand a better chance of fighting the attack off. Of course the single female being picked up by a sole occupant male driver is probably still a risky thing to do because the consequences can be fatal. But I think the risks go up when there are more people in the car. In the end, hitchiking is still risky - minimizing the risk is all that you can do. -- (WT-en) Huttite 04:26, 17 Nov 2005 (EST)
 * Agree with Huttite. I would hesitate to get into a car with more than two people (unless they're kids or something). (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:56, 17 Nov 2005 (EST).
 * This soooo depends of the situation I think it is rather awkward to even wish to give some useful tips on which rides to take and which one not. Mostly, you don't have much too choose, and there must be a darn good reason for me to refuse a lift. But I have to say I do like Huttite's comment on women hitchhiking: the consequences can be fatal. You know, life can be fatal ;) --145.99.202.92 20:13, 24 Nov 2005 (EST) (male)

Towel

 * "Be sure to pack a towel. Any color will do. A brightly colored towel may be used to signal a driver, as well as dry oneself, serve as a blanket, pillow and clothing--in the unlikely event that one finds oneself with nothing more than a towel."

Okay, I think it's totally redundant. I usually get a towel from my hospitality host, though I have a very small special towel thing. I never used it as a blanket, pillow or clothing. Nor used it for signalling a driver. I hitchhiked a lot and I think it's bullshit to carry a large bright towel around. Can I remove it? (WT-en) Guaka 20:09, 27 Dec 2005 (EST)

More importantly, a towel has immense psychological value. For some reason, if a strag (strag: non-hitch hiker) discovers that a hitch hiker has his towel with him, he will automatically assume that he is also in possession of a toothbrush, face flannel, soap, tin of biscuits, flask, compass, map, ball of string, gnat spray, wet weather gear, space suit etc., etc. Furthermore, the strag will then happily lend the hitch hiker any of these or a dozen other items that the hitch hiker might accidentally have "lost". What the strag will think is that any man who can hitch the length and breadth of the galaxy, rough it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through, and still knows where his towel is is clearly a man to be reckoned with." (This is why you should always have your towel) —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 128.237.231.148 (talk • contribs)

Sounds to me like the towel business was inspired by the book The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and may not be totally serious. Might as well delete it if it isn't really significant advice for hitchhiking. 128.2.222.48 04:09, 30 Jan 2006 (EST)

Yes, this is inspired by the "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy". It is a very famous, popular and funny book with some useful tips for hitchhikers. The towel is mentioned here in connection to a cite to this book, just for completeness. Please do not remove it, most hitchhikers know this book and will smile about this passage.

Adding my comments - safety and getting a ride
Safety:

I read the tip that you should always keep your backpack with you. I agree, if the backpack is small. I myself carry one large and a small backpack... and often the large one should go on the backseat or in the trunk. Refusing to put the backpack in the trunk is a signal to the driver that you don't trust him/her. Keeping a small backpack with you (containing a bottle of water and your road map) has never been a problem for me (in 6 years and about 15000 km of hitchhiking).

What I do if you I am asked to put my big backpack in the trunk: I cannot open the trunk. I just honestly cannot figure out how the damned thing opens. Driver gets out of the car, and we get back in at the same time. I prefer to leave one or two passenger doors open as well. These simple and innocent tricks make sure that the driver cannot take off with my backpack in the trunk and me still at the side of the road. And if you do it well (and I do) the driver never even notices that I do it to protect my backpack.

Two self-comments:

-Some trunks are really too obvious to open. These are generally older cars, mostly found in Eastern Europe. With older cars, make sure one or two doors are open, since it's the only trick you can use without looking like an idiot.

-Don't keep doors open when it's raining. Then again, my advice is: don't hitchhike when it's raining (grumpy drivers, and you'll look like shit after standing in the rain for more than an hour).

In case you don't exactly trust someone, it won't hurt mentioning (casually!) the dirty laundry that you have packed into 3 layers of plastic to protect you against the terrible smell, and that you hitchhike because of lack of money, and that you carry only cheap stuff.

Finally, if you don't trust someone, I think you should NOT show it. You may be wrong, and this may very much irritate the driver when (s)he simply wants to bring you to your destination.

Getting a ride:

I carry A4 papers (not cardboard) and a big marker... This enables me to change my sign if necessary. Since I carry these papers in a transparent envelope (plastic) I can have two signs (one at both sides), and all I need to do is to turn my sign around. Very useful if you're standing a long way away from one destination, but you can recognise (by licenceplates on cars) cars that go all the way to your destination. Flip the sign you're carrying, and bounce up and down :)

Jumping and dancing has never really hurt me... Doing something silly brings a smile on the face of the drivers, and that's often all you need.

Wet signs are not easy to read. Plastic can protect your sign.

Cheers for the website, I hope I post this stuff in the right place... Remove it if it's not placed correctly (I can only edit again in a couple of days, as I'm travelling now). :)

Magz

Italy
I can't find anything that says hitchhiking per se is illegal in Italy. It's illegal on expressways, but that's true pretty much everywhere. (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:12, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

Hitchhiking in Turkey is rare?
I've been living in Turkey for 24 years and covered many miles by hitchhiking up to the date and I've never thought hitchhiking is rare in Turkey. I have many friends doing or did that at some part of their lives. I've also never found it hard, the longest time I've waited beside the road was no more than 30 minutes...Turkey can better be listed as "easy-to-medium" in the list. Also I don't know any parts of Turkey in which it is illegal to hitchhike (except motorways for obvious reasons).

 * Plunge forward! And be sure to write up the details on the Turkey page as well. (WT-en) Jpatokal 14:37, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

Hitchhiking in Ireland
Hitchhiking in Ireland isn't common anymore. Sad but true... any comments.. update that table?

 * Plunge forward! (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:23, 5 November 2007 (EST)

 * According to Hitchwiki "it is the easiest and fastest way to travel in the countryside and in the less inhabited regions, where public transportation such as train or bus is not available or it is not as frequent as a traveler might expect ...". (WT-en) guaka 19:48, 26 July 2008 (EDT)

Payment expectations in Russia and Ukraine
A bit strange was to see values for payment expectations in Russia (often) and Ukraine (sometimes). To my experience of hitchhiking in both countries, it's about the opposite in both cases. 193.28.190.12 04:21, 11 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Hitchwiki articles on both countries summarily say that, while it is very much possible to come across with a driver expecting payment, that isn't very common. Please plunge forward and fix the article as you see fit. – (WT-en) Vidimian 20:38, 11 May 2011 (EDT)

Hitchhiking in the United Kingdom
Is not common! It's completely unknown. I have lived in the UK for all my life, all over the country and I have never even seen a hitchhiker, nevermind heard of anyone doing it. Nobody would stop for you. Except the police, most likely. I'll change it to 'rare' 109.152.232.43 19:33, 4 September 2011 (EDT)

 * I hitchhike a lot in places where the locals tell me nobody will stop, but people do stop in those places most of the time. A hitchhiker should never believe a local's opinion on whether locals will stop unless the local they're talking to is a also a hitchhiker. The places where locals really don't stop are known better to hitchhikers than to locals. — (WT-en) Hippietrail 05:15, 15 October 2011 (EDT)

Merge with Hitchhiking
I am proposing merging Tips for hitchhiking with Hitchhiking. I think "Tips for hitchhiking" isn't a particularly good title. We don't have "Tips for business travel" or "Tips for wildlife photography". Also, Hitchhiking is just a list right now. Btw, is Template:Mergecredit not used anymore? Danapit (talk) 11:48, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

 * No, it was deleted. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:01, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

 * Thanks, Ikan Kekek. Do you know what the updated procedure for merging articles is? Danapit (talk) 15:42, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

 * Just move the relevant content from one article to the other and then turn the article whose title you don't want for an article into a redirect. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:27, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

 * All right, thanks. I will wait a couple of days for other opinions before I do the move. Danapit (talk) 21:30, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

 * It is also possible to merge content to the better article and then move it over the outline. The suggested cut-and-paste move avoids deleting the outline history, but one should make sure to add a good link to the real article history, probably best done by including "merged from Tips for hitchhiking (Special:Permalink/2901938)" or the like in the edit summary. --LPfi (talk) 07:15, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

 * OK, I did it, as this way it did not require administrator privileges, and there seems to be no objections. Not much to merge, but I tried to get the links mentioned in relevant places. --LPfi (talk) 07:58, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

To guide?
What would it take to get this article from "usable" to "guide"? There's a lot of good info here, but there are a few style issues – such as an over-reliance on point-form text and a 61% overlap in content with the WT version (which may indicate out-of-date or duplicate content). K7L (talk) 17:37, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Difficulty in the table
Should the difficulty part of the countries tables be removed ? I feel like it is very subjective and I have seen it be in complete contradiction with my experiences Lastrik (talk) 16:31, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

 * Maybe you could just update it as appropriate? This kind of table seems like a good idea, if it can be at all meaningful and accurate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:14, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Autostop?
In the current version we say (about scammers wanting you to pay) we say:
 * "Clearly state that you intend to ride for free (use the word autostop) and/or that you do not have any money with you—use a translator.

Where is the word "autostop" understood? I hadn't heard it; why would the random driver in a non-Anglophone country understand it? I assume the word should be put in some country-specific By thumb section instead. Possibly, if the word is widely understood across countries somewhere, it could be explained here, noting where it is used.

Wiktionary says "a coupon-based system of hitchhiking". Should that system be explained somewhere in this article? I assume the autostop used above means something else.

–LPfi (talk) 17:05, 1 December 2022 (UTC)

 * Probably only applies to former Sovjet countries. Thus, it is not quite clear. You are right. Ceever (talk) 17:36, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
 * It's also the origin of the Turkish word for hitchhiking, otostop. Pronounciations of av-to-stop or af-to-stop might not be that easily understood, though. Vidimian (talk) 08:20, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hitchhiking


text:
Talk:Tips for rail travel

Usefulness
I wonder how usefull this is going to be-- are there really train tips that are general enough to apply to all countries? I mean besides "don't be late" and "women should be careful"? Maybe focus this on the EU or something? (WT-en) Majnoona 11:01, 8 Mar 2004 (EST)

 * I agree with Maj. I'm not even convinced we need a separate article for EU train travel (or any other region for that matter). If it's going to be regional it should come under "get around" of that region. (WT-en) DhDh 11:56, 8 Mar 2004 (EST)

 * It could be worth a try shaping it like Tips for hitchhiking. First the general stuff, and then country specific information. (WT-en) Guaka 18:32, 4 May 2004 (EDT)

 * Like Tips for hitchhiking, I think the country-specific stuff needs to be on the country pages. While there are some people who do travel just to be on trains, the more general traveller (our audience) doesnt usually think "I want to take a train, should I go to Asia or Europe?" They know where they are going and need the train info to be there.... (WT-en) Majnoona 01:11, 16 Jun 2004 (EDT)

Anybody knows a good site to find train routes and ticket prices? I have horrible experiences with using rail companies' own websites for international train travel... (WT-en) Guaka 15:16, 15 May 2004 (EDT)

 * Try Seat61. Note that it doesn't even attempt to have up-to-the-minute pricing though... (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:56, 17 May 2004 (EDT)

Shouldn't the regional railtravel tips be simply included in the appropriate articles? We'll either end up with information here that will be missing from the articles, or we will have redundant information in two places. Either way, a bad idea. -- (WT-en) Nils 03:17, 15 Jul 2004 (EDT)

US, Europe, Canada, North America, Tips
So instead of having three overlapping and (to varying degrees) redundant articles, we now have five (Europe, US, Canada, North America, tips) with Mexico yet to come. Frankly, I didn't see that great a need to split between the U.S. and Canada; moving the "how to find a seat on a train" suggestions to the "tips" article would have brought the North America article down to a reasonable size. (Plus American Orient Express and one of the rail passes apply to both countries.) Any chance we can work out a consensus about how to handle this before putting too much more work into it? - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 12:31, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

 * The reason North America was broken up is for the reason Evan cited as seeing this turn into various articles. "It seems like we've got one big page with two topics." I also cite Evan from an email he replied to "I could see it becoming an organizing page for Rail travel in Canada, Rail travel in the United States, and Rail travel in Mexico, possibly with other pan-continental information (like the North America pass, for example)."
 * Additionally, the reason I'm hostile towards Tips is because it isn't as user friendly as Rail travel in the United States or Rail travel in Canada, where the person using this information will know that the information provided in the US article know that the information is reliable for the rail travel in US. The problem with Tips is that it does offer some very good information, however, some (not all) of the information is useless to riders in Canada or the US, but the same information is useful to someone who is traveling in the UK. (WT-en) Sapphire 12:49, 5 April 2006 (EDT)
 * I don't want to do this without getting input from others, but if we arranged the tips in the Tips article into regions like ===Tips for North America=== or ===Tips for Asia=== the Tips article would be much more user friendly. We would be able to eliminate this information from the US and Canada articles, merge both articles into North America, again (North America would be a much more reasonable size than it was previously), add any information from Mexico in. Would that be an appealing compromise to everyone? Change the format of Tips and in place delete US and Canada a move everything back to North America? (WT-en) Sapphire 12:57, 5 April 2006 (EDT)

vfd discussion
Delete. I incorporated the useful info into Rail travel in Europe. I will incorporaate the same info into Rail travel in North America. The same content is covered in both articles, however the American and European articles are much more useful as they provide information on routes. (WT-en) Sapphire 07:37, 24 March 2006 (EST)
 * Keep. Looks quite like a valid travel topic to me. I don't think that the overlapping info would be enough reason for deletion. This is a wiki and just because an article's content isn't complete enough right now, it doesn't me it could never be. (WT-en) Ricardo (Rmx) 17:36, 28 March 2006 (EST)
 * Keep. Duplicating the general info in two articles makes it harder to maintain that info.  The information that's specific to each continent can be put in "see also" articles, which also link to the article with general info. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 17:39, 28 March 2006 (EST)
 * Update. All the info I thought was revelant to North American article was moved to the North American article. I'm still not persuaded, myself, however, I'm fairly liberal and am willing to flip-flop if the political wind eventual takes me there. (WT-en) Sapphire 17:49, 28 March 2006 (EST)
 * Keep. If it's really necessary, perhaps use template transclusion (like ) to copy the contents of this article into Rail travel in XXX ? --(WT-en) Evan 12:29, 5 April 2006 (EDT)
 * Keep. Objection withdrawn. (WT-en) Sapphire 16:01, 6 April 2006 (EDT)

Stating the bleeding obvious
Never more so than in this article! --(WT-en) Burmesedays 10:15, 12 February 2010 (EST)
 * I've met plenty of travellers (often young Americans, who have never had the opportunity to use a train in the US) who could probably find something like this useful. I've tidied it up a bit. M Blissett (talk) 20:31, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

rail air alliances
I think it might be very useful for travellers, especially those from countries where such thinks don't exist or aren't widely used to know about air-rail alliances and the offers they provide. Of course listing 'em all would be well beyond the scope of this article, but we could put some words about them into this here article... there is one on wp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-rail_alliance that lists (all?) of them but doesn't provide too much details.. I know a thing or two about rail&fly (having used it once in 2011) but know nothing about the other arrangements apart from their existence, so I don't know whether DB is the exception or the rule in this. If I understand the external links policy correctly, we don't want too many wp links in this website, so I guess we should find a way to avoid the link....? Anyway, before moving ahead, maybe other people would want to way inHobbitschuster (talk) 23:26, 14 December 2014 (UTC)

 * It could be a potential separate article, and I think a useful one for Europe. The WP page you linked to suggest China Eastern in Shanghai also does this, although there is no longer any mention of it on their web site and my personal experience would suggest this is no longer offered. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 00:21, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

 * So How would you propose to proceed? We could start with a mew section in this article or the rail travel in Europe article and see if it gathers enough content over time to merit its own article or we could start with a new article right away and link to it from this and the rail travel in Europe article. As I said I feel somewhat confident to write something about rail&fly, but I don't know anything about the systems employed in other countries or Lufthansa's AIRail...Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:36, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Not completely sure how to proceed. I personally find this article very hard to read and use so adding yet another section may be less effective than creating a new focused article.
 * I'd be interested in how to take advantage of this in a clear way. For example, if I have already booked flights with Lufthansa to Frankfurt in order that I can visit Hannover, what advantages would there be to use this, and what steps are need to make it happen? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 00:55, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

 * So according to this website http://www.lufthansa.com/online/portal/lh/us/info_and_services/from_to_airport?nodeid=1771075&l=en you would have to buy the rail&fly ticket with your flight. As far as I recall that is true for any airline and Deutsche Bahn itself states on their website, that you can only buy rail&fly tickets through the airline. For Lufthansa the fare would be 29€ one way in the second class (incidentally that is also the cheapest possible early bird rate for long distance tickets) You would than get a number with your flight-ticket that you can use to print your train ticket at home or redeem it at any ticket counter or ticket machine in any DB train-station.Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:53, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

 * hmm, that seems complicated :) Also I gather it is only valid if you book directly at lufthansa.com ? If you book a Lufthansa flight through another website (such as expedia) then I guess this is not available.
 * It might be worth to state on the Germany 'get in' section that Lufthansa offers this facility for flights booked directly with them. Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:38, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Well other airlines offer it as well (in fact there is even a IATA code for "rail&fly" QYG, but some online booking-tools can't handle it) a little further googling got me to find out that Germanwings (Lufthansa's 100% no frills subsidiary) allows booking rail&fly after you already bought a ticket (see: https://www.germanwings.com/de/informieren/services/hilfe/fragen/was-ist-beim-nachbuchen-von-rail-and-fly-zu-beachten.html ) (in German) the website http://www.ebookers.de also offers rail&fly when searching for a flight and gives a quote including the railfare. The one time I used it (edit: meaning rail&fly not the website (end of edit)), it saved me some 100€ (replacing a German domestic flight with a rail transfer) and it was remarkably hassle-free, but than again I bought the ticket in a travel agency and not online (it was my first long distance flight and the first flight I would be on my own on). There is a forum that says it is usually possible to book a rail&fly ticket after already having obtained a ticket with Lufthansa, but from the way it is worded, this doesn't seem to have been common at the time of the writing of those posts http://www.vielfliegertreff.de/lufthansa/51280-rail-fly-nachtraeglich-dazubuchen.html (again in German, I am sorry to say) . This website seems to provide sort of a general overview http://www.accesrail.com/rail-fly.html . The thing is, the last couple of times I flew rail&fly wasn't really a workable solution for me, but it beats most other modes of transferring to / from German airports hands down in terms of price and often in terms of convenience (once you get the ticket booked) and I think it would be good to have someone knowledgeable on the subject write an article about it. Problem is: I don't have much in the way of practical experienceHobbitschuster (talk) 23:17, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

 * So I just found this website http://www.rail-und-fly.de that seems to at least try to spell out (almost) all the options there are. Again in German. Btw. German wikivoyage is (as of this writing) hardly any better with infromation on rail-air alliances in general andrail&fly in particular only having two sentences or three in this article https://de.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Reisen_mit_dem_Flugzeug Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:56, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

 * No problem that it is in German, it is pretty clear. Actually I would consider this next time flying to Germany (assuming the ticket price on the Lufthansa site is similar to other ticket online prices) Andrewssi2 (talk) 09:32, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

 * So regarding the article though... Any thoughts? It would be great of course if you could write an article about rail&fly if and when you use it, but I figure that might well be several years henceHobbitschuster (talk) 22:09, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

 * In terms of the article, I would say it is traveler relevant and a short article would not be a problem. Also you are right, I probably won't get a chance to try this for a long while yet.
 * On a related subject, I am a big fan of using 'City Checkin' facilities. This involves going to the main station in certain cities (I use Hong Kong, Seoul and Kuala Lumpur for this), checking in your luggage and flight, and then taking a train direct to the airport whenever you are ready. Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:39, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

 * That sounds like AiRail (Lufthansa and Deutsche Bahn) where you can check in in Cologne Stuttgart or Siegburg (the ICE stop serving Bonn) for a flight leaving from Frankfurt...Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:26, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

 * So I went ahead and started an article on the subject. As of now I fear it to be a stub, but I hope people with knowledge on other countries might help it grow.Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:20, 2 January 2015 (UTC)

Promotion to guide and featuring
What do you think should be done to promote this to guide status and make it FTT? Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:49, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Train travel was boring before the Internet?
I took long-distance trains in China in 1987. A 4-hour trip meant listening to one Mahler symphony cassette, and I also had interesting interactions with people. I could tell a bunch of stories, but one particularly fun event was the time when I played a card game of bullshit/I doubt it in three languages with one Chinese-Canadian girl, bilingual in English and Cantonese with some Mandarin skills, who was traveling to Guangzhou to visit cousins, and one boy from Beijing to whom I explained the basics of the rules in my survival-level Mandarin and suggested he say "bushi," a Mandarin word for "no" as a perfect analog to "bullshit." Those folks were in the next train car from me, and I met them because I walked around and talked to people, knowing that I had 33 1/2 hours to kill (not including time asleep). I think while it makes sense to mention the Internet, it doesn't make sense to suggest that things were always so boring before it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:26, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Naming inconsistency
On Wikivoyage, I notice that location articles referring the mode of travel by type of vehicle used (i.e. location articles will have sections of "By bus" or "By train" or "By car"). Likewise, articles specifically relating to travel by mode of bus, are named "Bus travel" or "Bus travel in..."). In contrast, in the case of travel by train, the general articles relating to traveling by train use the term "rail" (i.e. the surface of travel rather than the vehicle of travel).  This naming in relation to train/rail is inconsistent.  It is also confusing relating to searching for information.

I suggest some form of change for consistency, i.e. either go all in with the term "train" or all in with the term "rail." --DPejano (talk) 17:03, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tips for rail travel


text:
Talk:Tips for road trips

At the end of the page it says: "Of course, most people know where they're headed before they leave on a road trip. If you're confused about where to go, why not start here?" with a link from 'start here', I think to a random page. I clicked on the link and it put me straight through to a web page on Dachau concentration camp. Perhaps this needs re-doing? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 138.104.36.1 (talk • contribs)

 * I went ahead and nixed the section just cause it's too general-- I mean we're not going to list all the places you cand drive too ;-). In the future, feel free to plunge ahead and make the edit! (WT-en) Majnoona 15:37, 10 Feb 2006 (EST)

driving with airconditioner in hot weather
When driving in hot weather (eg at +30..35C) in a rented car, we always either suffer from extremely cold air from air conditioner (which usually result in a running nose) or have a very hot air inside the car.

How do you deal with that problem? Maybe there's a special hack that we aren't aware of? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 11:23, 14 August 2010 (EDT)

Moved from United States
I moved the following from United States. Maybe some can merge this into this article?

"In addition to police patrol cars, drivers should also move for ambulances and "fire trucks" (large specialized vehicles used by firefighters) whenever you hear a siren or see flashing lights. However, do not attempt to pull over if it could cause an accident (you should pull over or move out of the way at the soonest opportunity you can do so with relative safety)."

--Andrewssi2 (talk) 01:32, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

 * This sounds like general advice about how to deal with "blue flash" vehicles. Is there a problem with foreigners often doing something weird? If so, we should write something about different practices in different countries, otherwise just leave it to the driving courses. --LPfi (talk) 09:28, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

 * If anything, what I notice here in New York is a lot of drivers don't promptly move forward and to the right to let emergency vehicles though, but I have no reason whatsoever to think they're mostly foreigners; just idiots. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:39, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Distance between your car and the one in front of you
While advocating for more space in between your car and the one in front of you is unlikely to do much harm (well maybe the people following the rule being overtaken by people less hung up on it), the recommendations - at least in Germany - do indeed say "halber Tacho in Metern" (half the speed in km/h in meters and yes that is valid up to and including speeds of 100 km/h). If you don't believe me see here (pdf from the federal German police) and here (Wikipedia in German) for reference. Other sources saying similar things are this forum and this page. Unfortunately they are all in German. Maybe it all is just a pervasive German myth, but if even the German police spreads it, it should imho at least be mentioned on driving in Germany Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:05, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

 * Before doing the change I checked the Finnish recommendations (in Finnish, probably not very useful here), which recommend one metre per km/h on countryside roads, half that in towns, more in winter etc.

 * I suppose the Finnish recommendations are partly due to longer distances and less traffic. With more traffic the capacity of roads is more important, and doubling the distance lessens the capacity (to half in theory, but better flow with greater distances partly compensates). Long distances to the destination makes people's ability to stay alert more important: after driving for a few hours your reactions will probably be quite a lot slower.

 * We should hear people from some more countries. The rule of thumb of one car length for every 10 mi/h seems to indicate shorter distances between cars also in the USA. As expected Sweden gives recommendations (section Hålla rätt avstånd, I suppose the Swedish is intelligible enough) in line with the Finnish ones.

 * For the article, we should mention differing standards, not keeping very long distances when driving in a line and letting other cars pass if keeping too short distances (for your taste) is common but there is room between groups of cars.

 * --LPfi (talk) 15:18, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

 * I've noticed this difference too, having read about halber Tacho in German-language car magazines, I was sort of confused when it was taught in the driving school that you should keep the same distance as your speed. ϒpsilon (talk) 15:45, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

 * It may very well be that the two factors you mentioned figure into the different recommendations apparently given in Finland and Sweden. As a general rule (which allows for some generalization) German roads are crowded and drives are relatively short (hardly anybody would consider doing a drive like Hamburg-Munich on a regular basis for the weekend both ways. Americans seem to consider that normal and the vast distances in the Nordic countries might indicate similar). I think we would need some input from further countries as Germany is sort of an aberration when it comes to highway driving (having no official speed limit) and the Nordic countries are also unlikely to be the global gold standard. It surprises me to hear this though, as I thought physics to be rather the same harsh mistress wherever you go. But maybe the Nordic countries just play it safe with the snow and whatnot. After all, Sweden has recently declared "vision zero" (0 people dying in traffic accidents) their official traffic policy goal... In Germany a few sacrifices to Saint Car appear to be "necessary for progress"... But I digress... Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:44, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, when I think of it, traffic is in many ways more predictable "in Europe" it and that's why one can do with less distance between the cars. Much of the main road network is motorways; limited access and everything moves in the same direction. Also, slower drivers know to keep right, which IMO isn't always the case on motorways and multi-lane highways in Finland. Much of the Scandinavian road network, on the other hand is comparable to Bundesstrassen, with more curves, head-on traffic and level crossings. Add sh*tty weather, darkness and the odd moose. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:23, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

FYI: Great articles about road trips
https://getpocket.com/collections/life-is-a-highway-14-great-articles-about-road-trips —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 14:35, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tips for road trips


text:
Talk:Tips for Savings at German Railways

This should probably be part of Germany in the "Get around" section... any reason why not? (WT-en) Majnoona 01:08, 16 Jun 2004 (EDT)

why not: a) Because it is only of interest if you already plan to travel by train and want to know specifics. b) There are even more ways to save and the article will be getting longer. c) Cause it is also better to have links to it from various articles user:unknown 02:09, 18 Jun 2004 (CET)

 * Thanks, anonymous user. However, we have some ideas about What is an article? here that are different. I think this stuff should be moved to Germany. --(WT-en) Evan 20:32, 17 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * I've moved this stuff into Germany, and kind of blanked the page. Maybe someone knows how to properly delete this one. (WT-en) Averell23 04:35, 19 Jun 2004 (EDT)

 * Rather than delete the page I made it a redirect page to Germany. -- (WT-en) Huttite 05:20, 19 Jun 2004 (EDT)


text:
Talk:Travel in developing countries

Bribe advice
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't our current policy regarding bribes - as it is an illegal activity - to not to? Doesn't the recently added section on police kinda contradict that? Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:46, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

 * At first glance at Illegal activities policy, I would think so, but further down:

 * Where police or public corruption mean that the written law of the land differs substantially from the practise of law enforcement. For example, it might be useful to point out any particular phrases or signs that a traveller can use to figure out whether an official is asking for a bribe, together with information about whether the bribe is necessary or a scam.

 * "Necessity" seems to suggest that sometimes it's unavoidable, even though it might be illegal. I think that's sometimes accurate. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:45, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

 * While we don't want to encourage corruption, it's also an unfortunate fact that in many developing countries, there's absolutely nothing else you can do but hand over a bribe. I even know of instances where police will stop you even if you have done nothing wrong and ask for bribes. For many of us in the developed would, it would be unthinkable to offer a bribe to a police officer but unfortunately, if you travel around developing countries, even the top echelons of the police could be corrupt and in cahoots with big criminal gangs, so reporting the incident might in fact get you into more trouble than if you just pay the bribe. I understand that from a moral perspective, this is wrong, but it's an unfortunate fact of life. The dog2 (talk) 17:24, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Article name
"Developing country" is a problematic concept. According to the IMF, they include countries such as Poland, Uruguay and United Arab Emirates, where the advice in the article hardly applies. A name such as Travel in low-income countries would be more appropriate, or possibly travel in low-income regions, as the article might be more relevant in places such as Siberia or Southeast China, than St Petersburg or Shanghai. / Yvwv (talk) 22:44, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
 * While I agree with the thrust of your comments (I disagree with Poland being any sort of "developing country", but that's neither here nor there), we have to be careful not to fall into the "euphemism treadmill" where we exchange the terms in a daily manner because nothing about the thing we describe really ever changes. I like neither "Third World" (which is above all inaccurate given that the "Second World" is gone) nor "developing countries", but "low income country" is cumbersome and in many ways simply inaccurate. Nicaragua may be poorer than some places (including, incidentally El Salvador), yet its security situation is notably better than it is in its northern neighbors. "Remote" (which would fit with your Siberia comments) or "off the beaten path" might also be considered, but they really don't fit for someone who is from Siberia and otbp is overused as it is (in a sense it is the beaten path language-wise). And some of the advice in this guide while particularly useful for places like India or Zimbabwe is nonetheless not wrong for places in the USA or Europe. So in short, I don't really have a good idea where to put this, though I do agree that the current name is problematic. Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:11, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe to Travel in poor countries? @Hobbitschuster @Yvwv, opinion? Turbo8000 (talk) 23:41, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Maybe this connotation is absent in English, but I think there is some negative connotation to the word "poor". And some developing countries are not - on the face of it - poor. I read somewhere that rents in Luanda are among the highest in the world and Equatorial Guinea is also quite rich. The unfortunate thing appears to be the distribution of said wealth. Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:56, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

 * The connotation exists in English, so I think "poor" can be ruled out.
 * I do not think the difference between "developing" and "low-income" is important; they characterize roughly the same group of countries, and neither term is exact. Pashley (talk) 16:46, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

 * The term "developing country" is a euphemism. What of a country which is poor, miserable, corrupt, overpopulated and staying there (or getting worse)? For instance, if Haiti were in worse shape now than it was before the earthquake a few years ago, how exactly would it be "developing"? It's an "impoverished nation", certainly (as it's faring worse than other countries in the Western Hemisphere) but it's not developing - it's just staying poor. K7L (talk) 17:14, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
 * on that I have to disagree. If we don't use an intermediate category for places like Mexico or China, most of the world are developing countries. And while sad examples like Haiti undoubtedly exist, the statement "developing countries are not developing" is widely inaccurate. Just take Nicaragua as an example. The country has quite consistently posted higher than average growth rates, its TFR (children per family) has fallen from above 5 in the 1950s to two point something and even such things as travel time from Managua to San Carlos has been cut from ten hours to six by bus in just the last five, ten years. True the country is suffering from endemic corruption, election results lack credibility and political violence is seen as legitimate by parts of the population, but you can't say there is no economic development. And stuff like the literacy rate are also rising. And Nicaragua is still the second poorest country in the Americas,  has no railway of any kind, lacks a thought out system of public transportation in its capital of over a million, but surely saying it will stay that way forever is simply not true. Not by a long shot. Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:14, 16 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Travel in poor countries and travel in poor regions are good alternate names; shorter than the current name, and more descriptive. /Yvwv (talk) 18:29, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

 * 'Developing country' is a term that was designed to be positive way to describe poorer countries. Why change? 'low income' is frankly condescending. Andrewssi2 (talk) 20:52, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

 * "Developing" is also a widely understood term. I'd vote to keep it, too. If it absolutely must be changed, "Less developed countries" could be used, but that begs the question of "less than what"? Taken literally, almost every country is developing, but I don't think many people will actually be confused. Is anyone who's participated in this discussion truly confused by what "developing country" means? Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:07, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

To guide?
How could this article be...developed... so that it could be upgraded to guide status and maybe even nominated for FTT? --ϒpsilon (talk) 19:00, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Well one of the low threshold things to do is looking at the "copied content" percentage and bringing it down as far as possible. And of course also checking those things that may have become outdated. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:15, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
 * So I just had a look at Copyscape and it gave me over 50% of "copied" content (though the number is even higher for "that other site" because they haven't had those edits "diluting" the old content). I think there are still some (rather) low hanging fruit in the bottom of the article, particularly the Packing section, the mental preparation section and the visa section. Not all of them are particularly well written, though they are not the worst prose on here either. Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:01, 20 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Nice work, although I don't think it is necessary to entirely rewrite articles that are featured. I was more wondering if there are important things missing from the article. ϒpsilon (talk) 16:39, 20 October 2016 (UTC)

Don't carry electronics?
In a recent diff, it was added that
 * "In most places, experienced travelers simply don't rely on electronics and wisely leave them at home, knowing that carrying expensive devices only paints a target on their backs for pickpockets or petty street thieves."

I very much doubt this is general and sensible advice. Should you really leave your smartphone at home? I think that, indeed, in a developing country, access to news on the internet is much more important than at home, and on all travel you want to have a means to contact those at home. What about documenting your voyage? Rely on non-electronic cameras, paper and pencil? You might need electronic tickets at some point when getting in, what do you do with the device if not taking it with you?

I assume what is meant is that you shouldn't carry excess electronics, but what would that be? Step counter, quartz watch, stand-alone navigator, analogue FM and short-wave radio, walkie-talkie, … The first ones can be carried discreetly and may not be too expensive, the others are valuable tools that few would carry unless they are going to put them to good use. Are there any things that travellers usually carry and should be left at home when travelling to developing countries?

–LPfi (talk) 08:59, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

 * Yeah, most travelers today rely on smartphones and they're useful for GPS and for taking photos. "Excessive" is a good benchmark. My rule of thumb is "don't bring anything that would make you cry if you lose it". No expensive smartphones and no DSLR. Mrkstvns (talk) 18:20, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * We already partly handle this in Stay safe ("If you wander into their territory waving around a camera whose price exceeds local annual income, expect a reaction"). I remember our also advising not to flash an expensive smartphone, but mostly to use a cheap second phone – somewhere, I cannot find it now. We should probably add it here.
 * Still, the expensive smartphone may be handy or even necessary for some tasks (and buying a second €200 smartphone to avoid carrying your €500 one may not make much sense), and those carrying a DSLR probably indeed want to get good pictures for which they need it. "Don't bring anything that would make you cry if you lose it" doesn't work: You really don't want to lose you passport, credit card or wallet, but you cannot avoid bringing them. And if you get robbed, that's scary enough that any actual loss pales in comparison.
 * –LPfi (talk) 06:42, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ^ This. The cheap second phone works if your phone is worth over €1000 – I've always felt on-edge bringing my €1100 (purchased at A$1800) in a country where I know theft is high, but it does not work for passports, credit cards or wallets. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 07:23, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Proposal for complementary article
Although many people from developed countries face problems while travelling in developing countries, the opposite is also true. I have heard of numerous cases where people from India (a developing country) face problems while travelling in developed countries like Britain, Russia and the US. Should we create travel in developed countries as a complement of this article? Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:08, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Also, the complementary article should be written in Simple English, since the audience of that article won't have a good fluency in English. I suggest following BE 850 and BE 1500 to write that article, similar to Simple English Wikipedia. --Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:16, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm drafting the article at User:Sbb1413/Travel in developed countries. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 09:21, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It sounds like a good idea. I am aware of Festung Europa problems and really hate how we treat a lot of people, and I understand that there also are lots of cultural and monetary issues. However, I don't think I can contribute much, as I am on the wrong side of the fence to see clearly. –LPfi (talk) 10:28, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * The problems aren't a mirror of those of people from rich countries. There aren't hotel chains from the developing world in rich countries, where you would take a break from culture chock. We also don't need to repeat things already in Visas and similar articles. –LPfi (talk) 10:34, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Although I'm from a developing country, I've never went abroad. I'm looking for cases where other people from developing countries face problems. I'm just giving the idea on what an article on travel in developed countries would look like. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 11:57, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * OK and no problem. Sometimes it is better to start by writing anything that pops up in ones head, and leave rewording and tidying for later. –LPfi (talk) 13:25, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Great start! I'm liking how it's looking so far. -- SHB2000  (t | c | m) 12:06, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Sbb1413, would you like any copy editing from other users? Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:43, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Travel in developing countries


text:
Talk:Tips for Travelling with a Baby

This article is about to disappear
This article will soon be gone, and the info that isn't already there, moved to Travelling with children. --(WT-en) Inas 18:04, 22 December 2008 (EST)
 * done. --(WT-en) Inas 20:58, 6 January 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Tips for Travelling with a Baby


text:
Talk:Tirana

Hurgh. This seems like a bad strategy. It might be easier to start with a plain template and copy over facts, rather than trying to translate piece-by-piece. --(WT-en) Evan 15:46, 25 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * I completely agree. This is the English Wikivoyage, not the Romanian. Moreover, the article switches from English to Romanian and vice versa in mid-sentence! I'd translate section by section and put those here when translated. It's better to take some time translating than to put something here untranslated. (WT-en) DhDh 16:26, 25 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * It's probably a good principle to not put things into Wikivoyage with the intention of coming back to finish it up later. We should expect others to be able to work on it on the chance that we don't come back, or we just don't get around to it again. --(WT-en) Evan 17:52, 25 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * I really was amazed that this article made it into the English Wikivoyage! Even though before we used to see the Romanian Wikivoyage with articles written half in English, now we're seeing the Romanian Wikivoyage as being a source of articles for the English Wikivoyage!!! Look - I think the article should be translated because it does provide good information. But, of course, just putting Romanian text in the Tirana page is not a good move at all! (WT-en) Ronline 19:54, 25 Jan 2004 (EST)

To translate
I moved the half-translated version to Talk:Tirana/To translate, and replaced it with a stub. --(WT-en) Evan 17:54, 25 Jan 2004 (EST)

A Commons file used on this page is missing permission
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page is missing permission information and may be deleted: You can see the details at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:13, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Moderni katolicka katedrala v Tirane, v popredi ricka Lan.jpg

Featured destination?
Is this article ready for Dotm, or is something missing? /Yvwv (talk) 12:27, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

 * The good weather is missing. ;-) Probably worth waiting until March. Apart from that Tirana is not really a city worth the trip, it is not like Dubrovnik, it does not have an old town. The architecture is a mess. Sights are not once-in-a-lifetime ones. Food can be one-sided. Just saying ... Ceever (talk) 14:57, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tirana


text:
Talk:Tirana/To translate

Tirana is the capital of Albania. Although Tirana is well-known for war, ethnic and political problems, it is not really known as a tourist destination. In fact, while many people would know that the city is "somewhere in the impoverished Balkans", very little people would be able to name one tourist aspect of the city. However, in Tirana you will find beautiful charm, hidden behind the relative poverty and problems of Albania. Also in Tirana you will find open parks and places, historical buildings, and a strange sensation of the meeting between Europe and the Orient (Albania is in fact an Islamic country, although it is in Europe).

By train
Railway service in the Balkans (so, former Yugoslavia, Albania and Bulgaria) were drastically reduced in the 1990s. Albania, which never had a particularly good railway infrastructure, is left with just about nothing these days. International train service does not exist. So, you can only reach Tirana from another Albanian city, and, until now, train service only operates to Durrës, Shkoder, Elbasan, Vlore and Pogradec. Even though train services are very poor, even when compared to West Balkan stadards, they are strangely frequent - with up to 8 services a day to Durrës.

By bus
In Tirana there are no bus stations, just simple opriri (adica, un stâlp, o bancă şi cam atât), chiar şi pentru autobuze şi autocare internaţionale. Deşi autobuzele sunt cea mai bună formă de a veni în Albania, notaţi că oricum sunt foarte servicii foarte, foarte slabe. Companii de autobuze nu prea există, doar autocare independente. There are no schedules - autocarele pleacă când se umple sau când vrea şoferul (deci, în general la ora 6 dimineaţa). Dar, asta este Albania, şi dacă vreţi să vă distraţi aici, trebuie să luaţi chestiile astea cu umor bun şi să nu vă enervaţi!

By bus, travelers can pâna la oraşele albaneze, or, by international routes, din Turkey, Bulgaria, Serbia and Greece. Dacă veniţi în Tirana, interesaţi-vă în ţara de plecare, la autogară, despre servicii. În general, din ţările menţionate mai sus, este un serviciu pe zi. Din alte părti a Europei (incluzând România) nu există servicii rutiere până în Albania - dacă vreţi să răbdaţi o călătorie lungă, grea şi incomodă, mergeţi cu trenul până în Bulgaria, Serbia sau Grecia şi de acolo prindeţi un autocar. Dacă nu, călătoriţi cu avionul.

By plane
Tirana is served by the airport Rinas, 25 km from the center oraşului. The airport primeşte zboruri from many European destinations, deci de multe ori, dacă veniţi din Europa, sau chiar de pe alte continente, avionul este cel mai sigur şi comod mod de a ajunge la Tirana. Bineînţeles, there is no public transportation from Rinas to Tirana - you have to hire a taxi, which costs about 15 euro (deci, 615.000 lei). Deşi este scump, prea multe alte oportunităţi nu există.

By boat
Tirana is not a port, so you can't get there directly by boat. There are, though, services destul de bune cu vaporul din Italia (porturile Bari, Trieste şi Ancona) până la Durrës, from which you can take the train (care vine aproape din două în două ore) or the bus to Tirana. Alternativa cu barca este destul de bună - mai ales dacă veniţi din Italia.

Get around
Transportul în comun în Tirana este de proastă calitate, dar relativ ieftin.

By bus
A bus ticket în oraş costs cam 0,10 euro (4.100 lei). Buses mari are old and circulă prost, dar maxitaxi-urile şi microbuzele sunt mai noi, mai bune şi puţin mai scumpe (0,15 euro - 6.150 lei). Buses are the only mode of public transport în Tirana, şi nu numai că circulă rar, nu vin la timp (de fapt, nici nu au orar), şi se strică des! Şi, fiind numai opt rute, este de multe ori mai bine să umblaţi. Buses run until 22:30.

By taxi
Taxiurile sunt bune în Tirana pentru că oraşul este destul de mare şi alte alternative de călătorie pentru turişti nu sunt. Dar, ţineţi minte că taxiurile, deşi sunt prine străzile de ele, sunt scumpe şi de multe ori, şoferii te vor fura, fiind că nici un taxiu nu are metru fix. A kilometer by taxi costs about 300 lek (2,30 euro - 94.300 lei).

title: Talk:Tirana/To translate


text:
Talk:Tiruchirappalli

Stay Healthy
The Stay healthy section has been renamed to the standard ==Cope==, the bulk of the contents have been moved here as they are lacking contact or address details and so are virtually useless.

 * GH Trichy

 * KMC Speciality Hospital( formerly Sea Horse Hospital)

 * Child Jesus Hospital

 * CMC

 * Deepan Nursing Home

 * Vishwanathan Pillai Hospital

 * Sundaram Nursing Home - Puthur

 * Maruthi Hospital - Pattabiram Street

 * St.Joseph's Eye Hospital - Melapudur

 * ABC Hospital - Annamalai Nagar

 * Retna Global Hospital - Pattabiram Street.

 * Welcare Hospital - Thillai Nagar west.

 * Mahatma Eye Hospital - Thillai Nagar.

 * Kingsley kids care - Puthur.

 * GVN Hospital - Singarathope.

 * GVN cancer institute - Kiledar Street.

 * A.G Eye Hospital - Puthur.

 * Vasan Eye Care Hospital - Kattur, Thillai Nagar.

 * Vasan dental care - thillai nagar,1st cross, trichy.

Sri Ranganathaswamy Temple
Deleted text said that Vaishnavites consider this the foremost temple of Vishnu. Is that true? If so, such a statement should be included in the description. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:11, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tiruchirappalli


text:
Talk:Tirupati

Moved from Tirupati and Tirumala as Tirumala is the destination (ie we dont do San Francisco and the Golden Gate Bridge or Agra and the Taj). See Project:What is an article? for more. (WT-en) Majnoona 08:35, 5 Nov 2005 (EST)

Tirupati Page removal
This page should be removed. There is another page Tirupati and Tirumala which is more relevant. And I have updated this page extensively. Anybody, esp the moderators listening? I have linked the Madras page to Tirupati and Tirumala. (WT-en) Sridharpandu 11:00, 5 November 2005 (IST).

 * There aren't really "moderators" here, it's pretty much a community process. See Project:Votes for deletion for the deletion process, but you might want to read Project:What is an article? first.  My inclination would be that there should be two articles, one for Tirupati and one for Tirumala.  What is the reasoning for combining these places into one article? -- (WT-en) Ryan 00:33, 5 Nov 2005 (EST)
 * Tirupati is a major temple on Tirumala hill and there is a township on Tirumala, basically supporting the temple. If Tirumala were a destination of its own, then Tirupati could have been an article under the "really large attraction" exception. But the temple overshadows the town, so it makes sense to have one article --(WT-en) Ravikiran 00:57, 5 Nov 2005 (EST)
 * It sounds like there should be one article, Tirumala, since that is the actual destination (see Project:What is an article? for more), and Tirupati would be a large attraction. Even if it "overshadows" the town in terms of interest, the town is still where visitors will sleep, eat, etc. The only exception would be if the temple were a temple complex on scale with Angkor Wat or a wildlife area with it's own accomidations such as the Grand Canyon or Chitwan. I'll go ahead and add this to VfD if it hasn't been done yet. (WT-en) Majnoona 08:33, 5 Nov 2005 (EST)

 * I was misinformed on this. Tirupati is in fact the town at the foothills of Tirumala hills. The temple is on top of Tirumala. The title should be Tirupati, not Tirumala. When the article on the temple gets written under the "large attraction" exception, Tirumala can get redirected to it. --(WT-en) Ravikiran 10:42, 14 Jan 2006 (EST)

Copyvio history section
I removed the history section that had been copied from. But it is still worth writing up the history of the place in your own words. I will do it sometime if no one attempts it earlier. --(WT-en) Ravikiran 11:38, 27 Dec 2005 (EST)

Sights
I removewd the following list of tempels etc from the main aticle. A bland list like this with no details, location or description is pointless. If you know any of these places, please add details and reinstate to the article.

 * Sri Venkateswara Temple
 * Sri Varahaswami Temple
 * Sri Bedi Anjaneyaswami Temple
 * Sri Anjaneyaswami Temple
 * Swami Pushkarini

Holy water sites

 * Akasaganga Teertham
 * Papavinasanam Teertham
 * Pandava Teertham
 * Kumaradhara Teertham
 * Tumbhuru Teertham
 * Ramakrishna Teertham
 * Chakra Teertham
 * Vaikuntha Teertham
 * Sesha Teertham
 * Sitamma Teertham
 * Pasupu Teertham
 * Japali Teertham
 * Sanaka Sanandana Teertham

Tourist attractions

 * Silathoranam
 * Narayanagiri - Srivaari Paadaalu
 * Vedagiri - Veda patashala
 * TTD Gardens
 * Asthana Mandapam
 * Sri Venkateswara Dhyana Vignan Mandiram
 * Deer Park
 * Sri Vari Museum
 * Rock Garden

Temples

 * Sri Padmavathi Ammavari Temple, Tiruchanoor
 * Sri Govindarajaswami Temple, Tirupathi
 * Sri Kodandaramaswami Temple, Tirupathi
 * Sri Kapileswaraswami Temple, Tirupathi
 * Sri Kalyana Venkateswaraswami Temple, Srinivasa Mangapuram
 * Sri Agasthyeeswaraswami Temple, Thondavada
 * Sri Kalyana Venkateswaraswami Temple, Narayanavanam
 * Sri Veda Narayanaswami Temple, Nagalapuram
 * Sri Venugopalaswami Temple, Karvetinagaram
 * Sri Prasanna Venkateswaraswami Temple, Appalayanagunta
 * Sri Chennakesavaswami Temple, Tallapaka
 * Sri Annapurna Sameta Kasi Visweswaraswami Temple, Bugga--(WT-en) Burmesedays 08:27, 6 April 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Tirupati


text:
Talk:Tirur

Tirur

 * Delete - In this form not ready for Wikivoyage. -- --(WT-en) Rein N. 04:44, 14 July 2009 (EDT)

 * Keep - It's a genuine destination in Kerala. Needs some work though... (WT-en) Tarr3n 05:02, 14 July 2009 (EDT)
 * I've added a template and some basic info gleaned from Wikipedia and Indian Railways. Seems to be a pretty important tourist destination with an annual literary festival. Kerala is on my mental wishlist for future travel so give it a year or two and I might be able to write a proper article about this place! (WT-en) Tarr3n 05:29, 14 July 2009 (EDT)
 * OK Keep - Is now a start of an article - --(WT-en) Rein N. 06:02, 14 July 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Tirur


text:
Talk:Tiruvannamalai

i am not sure how to rotate the image. Please try to do the same if anyone knows about it.

title: Talk:Tiruvannamalai


text:
Talk:Titusville (Florida)

Comments
Of all the things listed to see and do. None are actually located in the city of Titusville. It is sad that there is truly not much to do in Titusville. I'm not sure if the policy of this wiki encourages listing nearby things to do that should be listed on other city pages (In this case: Cocoa, Cape Canaveral, Merritt Island, etc.) Thoughts? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Joe32754 (talk • contribs)

title: Talk:Titusville (Florida)


text:
Talk:Tobago

How does one get to Crown Point from here? Thanks (WT-en) MustSee 10:49, 18 September 2011 (EDT)

 * From where do you mean? Crown Point is in Tobago, right? If you mean getting around on the island, to the town of Crown Point or the airport, you'd probably use a taxi or bus, I think. (WT-en) Justme 12:04, 18 September 2011 (EDT)

 * What I am asking is how does one switch from the article Tobago to Crown Point. When I click on Crown Point it takes me elsewhere. Thanks (WT-en) MustSee 12:34, 19 September 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Tobago


text:
Talk:Todi

Comments
This article isn't a stub. pz-engl

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:46, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Concattedrale della Santissima Annunziata - Interno.jpg
 * Todi panorama.jpg

title: Talk:Todi