text:
Talk:Alicante

Removed from start up article
''Below is the copy that was orginally on the page when it started. Pulling out the airlines might be useful...'' -- (WT-en) Ilkirk 12:52, 18 Oct 2005 (EDT)

Alicante is a main tourist destination and it's severd from a lot of budget air company. Here the list of the destination and company: Amsterdam	-	Holland	-	Air Berlin	, Berlin - Schönefeld	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Berlin - Tegel	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Bremen	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Cologne/Bonn	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Dortmund	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Dresden	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Düsseldorf	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Erfurt	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Frankfurt	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Hamburg	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Hanover	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Karlsruhe/Baden-Baden	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Leipzig/Halle	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, London - Stansted	-	United Kingdom	-	Air Berlin	, Mulhouse	-	France	-	Air Berlin	, Munich	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Münster/Osanbrük	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Nuremberg	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Paderborn/Lippstadt	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Palma de Mallorca	-	Spain	-	Air Berlin	, Salzburg	-	Austria	-	Air Berlin	, Stuttgart	-	Germany	-	Air Berlin	, Vienna	-	Austria	-	Air Berlin	, Zurich	-	Switzerland	-	Air Berlin	, Edinburgh	-	United Kingdom	-	Air Scotland	, Glasgow	-	United Kingdom	-	Air Scotland	, Birmingham	-	United Kingdom	-	Bmi Baby	, Cardiff	-	United Kingdom	-	Bmi Baby	, Durham Tees Valley	-	United Kingdom	-	Bmi Baby	, London - Heatrow	-	United Kingdom	-	Bmi Baby	, Manchester	-	United Kingdom	-	Bmi Baby	, Nottingham (EMA)	-	United Kingdom	-	Bmi Baby	, Cork	-	Ireland	-	Budget Air	, Shannon	-	Ireland	-	Budget Air	, Dublin	-	Ireland	-	Budget Air	, Basel	-	Switzerland	-	EasyJet	, Belfast City	-	United Kingdom	-	EasyJet	, Bristol	-	United Kingdom	-	EasyJet	, Dortmund	-	Germany	-	EasyJet	, Geneva	-	Switzerland	-	EasyJet	, Liverpool	-	United Kingdom	-	EasyJet	, London - Gatwick	-	United Kingdom	-	EasyJet	, London - Luton	-	United Kingdom	-	EasyJet	, London - Stansted	-	United Kingdom	-	EasyJet	, Newcastle	-	United Kingdom	-	EasyJet	, Nottingham (EMA)	-	United Kingdom	-	EasyJet	, Edinburgh	-	United Kingdom	-	Fly Globespan	, Glasgow	-	United Kingdom	-	Fly Globespan	, Birmingham	-	United Kingdom	-	Flybe	, Exeter	-	United Kingdom	-	Flybe	, Norwich	-	United Kingdom	-	Flybe	, Southampton	-	United Kingdom	-	Flybe	, Stockholm	-	Sweden	-	FlyNordic	, Birmingham	-	United Kingdom	-	Fly Thomas Cook	, Glasgow	-	United Kingdom	-	Fly Thomas Cook	, London - Gatwick	-	United Kingdom	-	Fly Thomas Cook	, London - Stansted	-	United Kingdom	-	Fly Thomas Cook	, Manchester	-	United Kingdom	-	Fly Thomas Cook	, Newcastle	-	United Kingdom	-	Fly Thomas Cook	, Nottingham (EMA)	-	United Kingdom	-	Fly Thomas Cook	, Zurich	-	Switzerland	-	Helvetic	, Reykjavik - Keflavik	-	Iceland	-	Iceland Express	, Leeds/Bradford	-	United Kingdom	-	Jet 2	, Manchester	-	United Kingdom	-	Jet 2	, Birmingham	-	United Kingdom	-	Monarch	, London - Luton	-	United Kingdom	-	Monarch	, London - Gatwick	-	United Kingdom	-	Monarch	, Manchester	-	United Kingdom	-	Monarch	, Birmingham	-	United Kingdom	-	MyTravel Lite	, Bergen	-	Norway	-	Sterling	, Billund	-	Denmark	-	Sterling	, Copenhagen	-	Denmark	-	Sterling	, Göteborg	-	Sweden	-	Sterling	, Malmö	-	Sweden	-	Sterling	, Oslo	-	Norway	-	Sterling	, Stavanger	-	Norway	-	Sterling	, Stockholm - Arlanda	-	Sweden	-	Sterling	, Bournemonth	-	United Kingdom	-	Thomson Fly	, Cardiff	-	United Kingdom	-	Thomson Fly	, Coventry	-	United Kingdom	-	Thomson Fly	, Doncaster - Sheffield	-	United Kingdom	-	Thomson Fly	, London - Gatwick	-	United Kingdom	-	Thomson Fly	, London - Luton	-	United Kingdom	-	Thomson Fly	, Manchester	-	United Kingdom	-	Thomson Fly	, Newcastle	-	United Kingdom	-	Thomson Fly	, Amsterdam	-	Holland	-	Transavia	, Rotterdam	-	Holland	-	Transavia	, London - Gatwick	-	United Kingdom	-	Firstchoice	, Birmingham	-	United Kingdom	-	Firstchoice	, Bristol	-	United Kingdom	-	Firstchoice	, Cardiff	-	United Kingdom	-	Firstchoice	, Nottingham (EMA)	-	United Kingdom	-	Firstchoice	, Glasgow	-	United Kingdom	-	Firstchoice	, Manchester	-	United Kingdom	-	Firstchoice Source:Routehunter

In the buying section, the comment about Franco souvenirs was totally inappropriate.

title: Talk:Alicante


text:
Talk:Alice Springs

(WT-en) Teedeent

Hermannsburg links to the Hermannsburg in Germany not Australia!

have added in some information I feel is important about visiting aboriginal communities - just some of the rules. Also, a bit about staying safe. Alice is a safe place, but its worth reminding people to be safe as some travellers forget this when visiting areas outside of cities...

The Link to the "King's Canyon" directs to a U.S. national park..
 * I fixed that (WT-en) Tensaibuta 07:47, 17 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Try again. I think you'll find that it links to Watarrka National Park, which is located in the Northern Territory region of Australia. King's Canyon is an attraction within this park. (WT-en) WindHorse 07:51, 17 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Forget my comments above. The first contributor didn't sign, and I didn't read the second part fully. (WT-en) WindHorse 07:53, 17 June 2007 (EDT)

=To anonymous 59.100.140.94= Hi, thanks for your impressive work on Alice Springs. The Get Out section is rather exhaustive. I would suggest to move it or parts of it to a higher level (Northern Territory or Red center). What do you think ?

(WT-en) Tensaibuta 09:29, 3 September 2007 (EDT)

Hey, I think that's me - not sure but I think I did most of the editing there. I do have a login but I was lazy and didn't sign in. Thank you for the compliment! I couldn't believe how small the Alice Springs page was considering how much there is to do out here! It *is* a small town, but we're not *that* small.

It is a lot on the "get out" section, but the location out here is so remote that there is no other practical base of operations for accessing these areas - Maybe they should also be in the NT page too? But there's no way to get to the gorges from Darwin without stopping in Alice. It's sort of a big cluster of trails and roads that start here in Alice and only go to these gaps and gorges, little day trips, unless you're packing out for a week or so to go four wheel driving. Do you live out here?

221.121.65.133 23:21, 29 May 2008 (EDT)

crime
what about a section on crime and safety in this areA?

driving after dark
i have never seen a car rental agreement which prohibits driving after dark. i'll remove this section from the article, unless anyone has evidence to the contrary. --(WT-en) Inas 21:07, 1 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I followed up on my own issue, and it turns out that a few car rental companies prohibit driving after dusk outside towns. I have updated the article. --(WT-en) Inas 18:53, 10 September 2008 (EDT)

permission
Hi I'm Lex, in regards to all Northern Territory information I have added, you may notice that some of the text I am adding appears in another website eg travelnt.com, that is because I am the original author. --Lex 11:39, 19 September 2008 (EDT)

¡Awesome!
Good work you guys for editing this! It's a well-rounded articel! Keep smiling, (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 19:16, 3 November 2008 (EST).

Car Insurance Void on unpaved roads
It might be worth adding to the "By Car" section that most car rental companies won't provide insurance for a 2WD once you get onto an unpaved road. Since there's a lot of them round travelers might need to consider if they won't be better of with a 4WD (source).

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Alice Springs


text:
Talk:Northwestern Iraq

The warning in this article is dated. The region is still very dangerous, yes, but much improved in the last couple years.

Also, Al-Jazira is the informal name for this region, not the name of any province.

 * If you don't agree with the warning, plunge forward and soften it.

 * All the best,

 * (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 16:59, 3 July 2011 (EDT)

 * P.S. It's a convention in "Talk" articles to sign one's posts by typing a tilde (the "~" character) four times in a row.

Hatra banner
The banner for this article is now the default on Wikidata, but it's of a building that was undoubtedly destroyed when Islamic State razed Hatra to the ground. I'd prefer no banner to this banner, and I'd suggest deleting the banner from Wikidata, too. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:11, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Move (rename) of region
The rename of this article is probably a good idea considering the changes in control and the many possible name of it. A neutral one seams wise. Please complete the move though by chancing the isPartOf of the city articles in this region. --Traveler100 (talk) 07:11, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

Okay, I'll handle it when I get home from vacation. Libertarianmoderate (talk) 00:39, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Northwestern Iraq


text:
Talk:Alkmaar

Wow, there sure is a lot of info in here! I'm wondering if, besides a lot of detail work needed to bring this in line with the MoS, if the Get Out section needs to be split into several individual guides-- or are all those places really only day trips from Alkmaar? (WT-en) Majnoona 13:18, 5 March 2006 (EST)

Considering that entire cities have no article, and that many Netherlands articles are miserable stubs, separate articles for villages around Alkmaar would be odd. They are not even 'day trips', the bus to Bergen takes 12 minutes.(WT-en) Wesopa 06:16, 6 March 2006 (EST)

 * Hey Wesopa, the Alkmaar article looks great. However, if there is too much information on one page, readers get overwhelmed. Is it possible to set up individual pages for the villages, while retaining a link to the 'get out' section of the Alkmaar page? Bergen, I know is a pretty village, with dunes and nice coffee shops. Certainly that place has enough attractions for a small city template. Please give it some thought. Thanks. (WT-en) WindHorse 6 March 06

 * I'm not sure I can agree with that unless there's someplace to sleep in Bergen. I'm really strongly in favor of the 1 destination == 1 article rule that we've been following up until now.  So, if it can have a sleep section make an article for it, if not don't. -- (WT-en) Mark 06:40, 6 March 2006 (EST)
 * Like (almost) every sea-side village in Europe, Bergen can offer accommodation. Furthermore, the article is is great, but really bottom heavy. The 'get out' section constitutes about half of the information. Like large cities, I personally feel that small destinations that have many villages with sites of interest nearby should be candidates for splitting. Otherwise, how do we set up the listings for the hotels, cafes and 'get in' info for these out of town places in way that others can contribute later - just my humble opinion  (WT-en) WindHorse 6 March 06

 * Easy. Bergen has a Sleep section, therefore it is a destination.  Go ahead and break it out. -- (WT-en) Mark 07:35, 6 March 2006 (EST)

 * Thanks, Mark. That's the kind of answer I like - simple. I've split of Bergen. The other villages mentioned in the 'get out' section also have accommodation, but as there are three with the same name (inner, outer and whatever), I'll leave it to others more familar with the area to do the honors of splitting them from the main article. (WT-en) WindHorse 6 March 06

Certainly Bergen has a Sleep section, but that it is because it is an entirely different place - the city of Bergen in Norway. The Guide article criteria say that a guide article should include information on where to go from the destination. They also suggest a guide article should tell you how to spend several days at the destination, which in this case must include the surroundings.

The split has only added another stub (with essential information missing), while the Alkmaar and Amsterdam articles are the only useful Netherlands articles. The 'place-to-sleep' criteria would create 10 to 20 separate articles for around Alkmaar, some for hamlets with perhaps 250 inhabitants. So unless there is a better reason, the Bergen section should go back in the Alkmaar article.(WT-en) Wesopa 05:49, 7 March 2006 (EST)

 * He moved the content to Bergen (Netherlands) which is the disambiguated form. This Bergen does diserve its own guide, since it has a sleep section, if you don't like the fact that it's a stub then please plunge forward and add some more content to make it a guide or maybe even a star.  If we don't make a Bergen (Netherlands) article then it can't ever be a guide or a star, now can it?

 * If you really think Bergen doesn't deserve its own article then I suppose you could try putting the article up for Project:Votes for deletion, but I guarantee that there will be strong opposition. -- (WT-en) Mark 06:25, 7 March 2006 (EST)

One good article better than 10 stubs
The Bergen article has no information on how to get there, it has no entry in the Sleep section, just the name of a hotel without any further details. Other sections are empty, even with the minumum template. Also, the Schoorl reserve info has been moved there, although the addres and entrance described are in fact in Schoorl.

You should not split an article, if all you can create is an unusable stub. There is no objection in principle to Bergen having a separate article, the point is that it does not have an article at present - just a stub. The information in the Alkmaar article is adequate, and it is one of the two adequate articles on the Netherlands. That won't change in the next few months. Meanwhile, one good article is better than 10 stubs.(WT-en) Wesopa 05:28, 8 March 2006 (EST)

I put back some basic info on Bergen as destination - that is the purpose of a Get Out section. I re-entered the Schoorl reserve info, and noted that it is west of Schoorl (different bus line). So now the Bergen article can be upgraded on its own, although I would bet it is still a stub in summer.(WT-en) Wesopa 05:44, 8 March 2006 (EST)

 * Bergen is not a stub, it's an outline. You seem to be working with Wikipedia-like rules for splitting an article, but we do things a little differently here.  This is because we have a goal to make a complete world travel guide, with guides for every destination our users can think of.

 * To my mind it is better to have more complete articles, and not articles which try to jam two destinations into one guide. The Get out section is not for detailed info about nearby destinations, but rather for info about getting out of the destination you are in, with one or at most two sentences about nearby destinations.  If you don't believe me check out the Project:Manual of style. -- (WT-en) Mark 06:51, 8 March 2006 (EST)

 * One more pointer: Check out Paris as an example of what the Get out section normally should look like.  -- (WT-en) Mark 07:52, 8 March 2006 (EST)

Alkmaar is not Paris. You can't compare Versailles and Chartres to small villages with one campsite. I have no objection to people writing articles on all these villages, but they don't, and they won't. So now there is a stub for Bergen (not an outline), which doesn't even tell you how to get there (and it says the village is on the North Sea, which it isn't). If Wikivoyage guidelines say this is an improvement, then the guidelines need changing.(WT-en) Wesopa 10:56, 8 March 2006 (EST)

 * If the place is too small to sleep in (the usual rule of thumb for our destinations), then keep in Alkmaar -- but it must go in See or Do, not Get out. Get out means "where should you go next", with a list of interesting options, the idea being that the traveller picks one, continues there and doesn't come back. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:05, 8 March 2006 (EST)

 * Wesopa, while you're at it, consider fixing up the Bergen article (which is an outline, as it has the sections there to be filled out, in our definition an article is a stub if it doesn't have those) since you clearly know enough about Bergen to fix it. -- (WT-en) Mark 12:57, 8 March 2006 (EST)

I looked at the list in Project:Geographical_hierarchy and it doesn't include villages anyway.(WT-en) Wesopa 05:49, 9 March 2006 (EST)

 * For Wikivoyage's purposes, any place with places to sleep is a "city". I've clarified the wording in the article. (WT-en) Jpatokal 06:41, 9 March 2006 (EST)

Sections moved
So, now everything is in the correct section, as suggested, and the Get Out section just lists onward destinations, as suggested. The article is long, but no longer than many other Guide articles. Most Star articles seem to be over the limit as well.(WT-en) Wesopa 05:35, 9 March 2006 (EST)

Alkmaar bicycle
Sure the photo is "Alkmaar bicycle" ? It looks like the text is for an old file. --MGA73 (talk) 13:16, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Mill image
Wrong image is linked to illustrate the windmills. Downtowngal (talk) 01:49, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

 * Thank you. Some of our images accidentally got a bit mixed up. I've removed them until I can find the originals or some suitable replacements. —Ruud 09:36, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Alkmaar


text:
Talk:Prayagraj

Comments
Please keep adding informative things about the city. But dont be biased while composing their description. If some of you have ideas about mosques of city which are 'actually' worthy to be seen then please add something about it.

Kumbh Mela
That information looks to be from before 2013, so it needs to be updated, but I can't find the info. Particularly, what are the dates of the 2019 Kumbh Mela? Wyote (talk) 15:02, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and deleted the 2013 information, but if anyone knows the 2019 information that'd be great. Wyote (talk) 11:00, 8 August 2015 (UTC)

I believe these are the dates https://www.tourmyindia.com/kumbhmela/bathing-dates.html, I'm putting forward the idea that we make kumbh mela a article --Billbarrelrider (talk) 14:53, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Kumbh mela section /article
Since kumbh significantly changes the character and logistics of allahabad, and it changes annually I'm wondering if it should have its own article.

I know this isn't the norm, but the tent city is now 40km square and I would argue constitutes a city and meets all the destination requirements independently.

The event is decidedly not tourist friendly owing to the sheer volume of people, lack of information in English and lack of tourist support on the ground.

To expand the section on the festival would make the article huge, and would only be relevant once a year at most.

Let me know what you think.

--Billbarrelrider (talk) 07:01, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

 * My feeling is, expand the section, and then when it starts to overwhelm the article, we can take up the question of whether to break it off into its own article and would probably achieve a consensus to do so at that point. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:30, 7 February 2019 (UTC)

Name change
It has now been a year and a half since the name of Allahabad was changed to Prayagraj. Most major media outlets are using Prayagraj, which is slowly becoming more and more popular. I think it is time that we also change the name to Prayagraj.Minal75 (talk) 23:57, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Is that true of foreign sources, too? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:08, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I rather just reverted an undiscussed page move here. Wikipedia still uses Allahabad so I oppose changing the name of the article SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:08, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Undiscussed page moves that aren't blindingly obvious are not OK. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:31, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Hence my revert. This was last proposed on Wikipedia on September the 20th, and the result was "not moved". SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:14, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Given that today's incident wasn't the first time someone's tried to unilaterally change the name used in this article, I've gone ahead and created an edit notice that should deter users from unilaterally changing the name (the edit notice can be found on MediaWiki:Editnotice-0-Allahabad, by the way). SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:51, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:26, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I didn't realize the notice hadn't already been put into the article. Yes, let's put it in the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:51, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Or not? Wikipedia moved their article: see w:Talk:Prayagraj. Do we need to follow them? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:51, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Which name do most UP (and more broadly, Indian) media outlets use? ? SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 22:31, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Indian outlets generally use "Prayagraj" since 2018 and there's only a few instances of "Allahabad" (mostly Allahabad Bank and Allahabad High Court). Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 04:36, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Strong Support
 * Major English-Language Media outlets: They have almost universally started using Prayagraj, regardless of whether they are based in the United States such as Reuters, New York Times, or Washington Post, the UK such as BBC or the Guardian, or in India such as the Indian Express or NDTV.
 * Quality Encyclopedia: Britannica Uses Prayagraj.
 * Geographic Name Servers: Google Maps, Bing Maps, and Apple Maps all use Prayagraj.
 * Major Science Bodies and Journals: Checking citations for Prayagraj vs Allahabad is complicated, because Allahabad is used as a name for a lot of things besides the city that is the subject of the article, such as other locations called Allahabad, a district court, a military hospital, a fort, a pillar, a kind of plant, and importantly multiple universites have Allahabad in their name. However, we can easily check which is more the common representation for the city that is the subject of this article by searching for "Prayagraj, Uttar Pradesh" vs "Allahabad,Uttar Pradesh". Since 2022, Prayagraj is far more common, with 1800 results for Prayagraj, Uttar Pradesh vs only 694 for Allahabad, Uttar Pradesh, which is pretty clear evidence that Prayagraj has become the common name in the scientific literature as well.
 * The original question was have reliable sources started using the new name? Clearly, given sources as diverse as Encyclopedia Britannica, Reuters, and Google maps have done so, the answer is A Big Yes.Britannica Uses Prayagraj.
 * Geographic Name Servers: Google Maps, Bing Maps, and Apple Maps all use Prayagraj. JaggaDaaku (talk) 06:12, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks. "Reliable sources" wasn't really the question (that seems like a Wikipedia question - I think we're more concerned with common usage by ordinary people than Wikipedia is), but all that information is appreciated. It appears like, for whatever reason, Prayagraj has caught on more than Bengaluru and several other names. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:32, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * According to me, There is no possible way to prove what common people are using. Just FYI I am from the Hindi Heartland where Prayagraj lies. I can assure you that people used PRAYAGRAJ way before it was officially changed. Locals always called it as PRAYAG because of its religious significance and world famous KUMBH MELA. JaggaDaaku (talk) 16:43, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I think Prayagraj has caught on more than Bengaluru because Prayagraj is an entirely different name (the previous name was Allahabad), while Bengaluru looks (and sounds) similar to its former name Bangalore (behng-guh-loo-roo versus bang-guh-lohr). Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:45, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Of course, there are cases where official names become widespread despite its similarity to its former name. For example, Calcutta vs Kolkata, Bombay vs Mumbai, Madras vs Chennai, Cochin vs Kochi etc. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 16:53, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Right. Well, I think we should wait two days to see if anyone has a good argument for why we shouldn't change the name of this article. If no-one has a good reason to object, the change should be made at that point. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:10, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * If this page does get moved, feel free to delete MediaWiki:Editnotice-0-Allahabad (i.e. the edit notice) under the rationale "Author request", in the case that I forget. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 12:05, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Done, and I made some preliminary edits to the text, but this is a big job, so I need help to change the name in appropriate places in the article only. And then there are the links that should be updated. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:47, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for renaming the article. If I have enough time, I will initiate Allahabad vs Prayagraj discussions in Wikimedia Commons, Bengali Wikipedia and (if I can fully understand the language) Hindi Wikipedia. Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 04:00, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Sure thing. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:57, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

 * WV:Romanization: I guess there's consensus about maintaining some traditional, old-usage cases such as this? Ibaman (talk) 22:19, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Only if it's still the most common English name. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:21, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The "Indic" section is not necessarily a consensus but a convention used in India. Although Hunterian transliteration is the national standard, due to its notable shortcomings, I've used NLK, which is not only an official standard in use but also covers all Indic scripts (except Sinhala). Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs) 04:54, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

Promote to Guide status?
What does it take to promote this article to Guide? /Yvwv (talk) 00:10, 26 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Prayagraj


text:
Talk:Alleghenies and Susquehanna Valley

Comments
"and includes one of the most urban state capitals in the country, Harrisburg." I deleted this line, because it's not true by any obvious definition of urban. By municipal population, Harrisburg is among the smaller cities that are state capitals, and by urban area it is in the middle of the pack. It may be "urban" in some way other than population size, but this has to be defined. —The preceding comment was added by 128.135.189.179 (talk • contribs)
 * Presumably the original writer meant the urban area around Harrisburg, which at 300k or so is pretty big for a state capital (though no comparison to Boston or St. Paul). (WT-en) LtPowers 11:35, 15 February 2012 (EST)

title: Talk:Alleghenies and Susquehanna Valley


text:
Talk:Allendale

Sleep there
In the edit history, User:(WT-en) Huttite wondered if this qualified as a destination, since the original author said you'd have to sleep in Grand Rapids. I'm not sure what kind of public accommodation there be available in Allendale, but it's the main campus of a state university (meaning that thousands of students travel there every year), and it's far enough from G.R. or any other city in the area that it wouldn't make sense to fold this article into one of theirs. Think of it like a state park. :) - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 07:52, 27 July 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Allendale


text:
Talk:Allentown

Comments
Well, I'm from Allentown, and I am new to Wikivoyage. I have made some minor edits on Wikipedia, but I don't believe I have ever started a page, or contributed as much as I have just now done on the page on Allentown. I have updated a few sections, please feel free to discuss! —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Jsharpmino (talk • contribs)
 * Good work! Now we shall discuss how to keep you motivate to add more :-) -- (WT-en) Colin 22:11, 5 June 2007 (EDT)

Is Eastern Pennsylvania really "unique" that it gets snow in winter and over 100 degrees in the summer? That situation applies to practically all of the Midwest. —The preceding comment was added by 204.27.156.146 (talk • contribs)

Do Section
It's all messed up! --(WT-en) Norvak 15:26, 23 December 2008 (EST)
 * Wow, you are correct! I don't get it.  I tried fixing it per usual, but nothing happened.  (WT-en) edmontonenthusiast [ee]  .T.A.L.K. 15:29, 23 December 2008 (EST).

Why is the "Eat" section not separating from the section above it? It looks formatted correctly. (WT-en) PAWiki 15:28, 23 December 2008 (EST)

Get Out Section
it justs says it has bars and nightlife and stuff no places near Allentown listed? --(WT-en) Norvak 15:42, 23 December 2008 (EST)
 * You're right; someone thought "get out" meant "get out on the town and have fun" instead of "get out and go someplace else"! Feel free to fix it up if you know of any great locations near Allentown.  (WT-en) LtPowers 15:48, 23 December 2008 (EST)

Allentown, Pennsylvania
I notice a few section in the Allentown, Pennsylvania article are not separating as stand-alone sections, even though they appear to be formatted correctly. Could someone look at it? Thanks. (WT-en) PAWiki 15:31, 23 December 2008 (EST)
 * Can do. - (WT-en) Dguillaime 15:35, 23 December 2008 (EST)
 * Thanks. What was wrong with it?  (WT-en) PAWiki 15:50, 23 December 2008 (EST)
 * There was a <do> tag missing its matching </do>. - (WT-en) Dguillaime 17:39, 23 December 2008 (EST)

Too many pictures
This article had too many pictures -- see Image policy. I have taken some out, particularly those that really didn't provide any information to the reader, e.g., shopping malls, the airport, the hospital. We could probably take some more out, but I'll stop for now. Ground Zero (talk) 17:17, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Allentown


text:
Talk:Almaty

This is a great travelogue. It'll have to be adapted somewhat to match the standard article format, but what it most needs now are some concrete facts to back it up - where is Almaty, how do you get there? etc. (WT-en) KJ 21:18, 17 Sep 2003 (PDT)

I agree. Please take a look at Goals and non-goals and Slippery_slopes as well as the City article template to get a feel for city guides. If you'd like to hear about other sites that are looking for more travelogue-style articles, let me know and I can send you soem links. Thanks. (WT-en) Majnoona

 * This page has been untouched for a long time. I have looked at how to edit it but, short of deleting it and starting again, it is difficult to kno where to start. I know nothing about this place in Kazakhstan, so am reluctant to do anything to what is a dead-end page. - (WT-en) Huttite 22:59, 9 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Comments
I'm moving some comments from the page to this page. Most of this is worth incorporating, but it's hard enough with the original travelogue. I'm going to try to dig some content out of the page and try to get it working, and then work this stuff back in. --(WT-en) Evan 14:45, 20 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Thank you for your opinion about our city and welcome to Almaty But few more details 1. Spelling - SCHYM-BU-LAK it means - 2. Generally - "Five finger" -is slang phrase which used non native persons right is "Kazak Et" - Kazakh Meat 3. This travel guide says about only formal ordinary plases in the city But also you can go to mountain lake (3500 m) In one side of city there are other lakes around Almaty with mountain environments On other side you can visit desert park with canyon no gigantic like in Colorado but on second place Also petroglifs and waterfalls

And weather not so cold and hot and much more

For Some Information about Almaty pls look this links

http://community.webshots.com/album/91317226ygesPa http://www.geocities.com/kazakhstan_adopt/informational2.html http://www.almaty.hop.ru/main.php?m_incname=getfoto.php&folder=9 http://www.anrb.ru/museum/collw.htm http://shwily.aiq.ru/source/gallery/art_photos/city/almaty_10.jpg http://www.infokz.com/photo/ http://www.morgana.kz/russian/photo_2.html http://www.keste.kz/ http://tourkz.com/map/index.html http://www.almaty.host.kz/new/photo.php http://www.unesco.kz/heritagenet/kz/hn.htm http://www.globusgeo.kz/3/tamgala.shtml

I'll to try send information for yours interest =))

Marat mako5a@yandex.ru

Travelogue
I moved the Almaty travelogue to Talk:Almaty/Travelogue, as a reference for making a real page. --(WT-en) Evan 14:48, 20 Apr 2004 (EDT)

 * I've tried to mine the travelogue for as much info as possible; another set of eyes might be able to dig out more nuggets. --(WT-en) Evan 15:21, 20 Apr 2004 (EDT)

Problems leaving by air
In May 2003, I left with a tour group (cancelled trip into China due to SARS) via the airport, based in an old administration building. Apparently, the international airport one had been burnt down. You MUST arrive several hours, say three, in advance of flight due to chaotic conditions and slow processing.. Also, my English travelling companion was hooked out of line at random and taken into the immigration office for a shakedown. He came out...shaking. I was asked to show my US$ and put them on the desk when my passport was stamped. I made sure I picked it ($50) up again when I moved on. Maybe things have changed, I hope so. Speak to local expats or friendly travel agents for advice if you have to leave by air.
 * Things have changed! (WT-en) Davidbstanley 05:39, 6 September 2007 (EDT)

English Speaking restaurants
This info has been deleted from wikipedia. This is probably the place for it. Sorry I'm not adding it.

CASHGAR RESTAURANT: Uigur Restaurant

Makataev street, 139. Corner of Kozhamkulov str. Tel: +7 (727) 2334200

TEMUJIN ASIAN RESTAURANT: Mongolian, Japanese, Chinese, European cuisines.

Dostyk ave. 63. Corner of: Shevchenko str. Tel: +7 (727) 2538000

KOREAN HOUSE: Korean Restaurant

Gogol street, 2. Corner of Baribaev str. Tel: +7 (727) 2939692

BEIRUT RESTAURANT: Lebanese Restaurant

Dostyk ave. 50. Corner of Kurmangazy str. Tel: +7(727) 2938191

SUHSHI PLANET: Sushi Bar

Dostyk ave. 43. Corner of Kabanbai Batyr str. Tel: +7(727) 2952543

GOVINDA’S VEGETARIAN RESTAURANT

Abilai Khan ave, 39. Corner of Mametova str. Tel: +7(727) 2710836

BORGO ANTICO: Italian Restaurant (elite)

Iskendirov street, 6/11. Corner of Zharkentskaya str. Tel: +7(727) 2935151

PIROSMANI: Georgian Restaurant

Abilai Khan ave, 32. Corner of Mametova str. Tel: +7(727) 2392525

BEIJING RESTAURANT: Chinese Restaurant

Zenkov street, 52. Corner of Bogenbai Batyr str. Tel: +7(727) 2930041, 2543107

PIZZERIAS

MAMMA MIA

Gogol street, 87. Corner of Panfilov str. Tel: +7(727) 2733873

VENEZIA

Dostyk ave. 87. Corner of Abai ave. Tel: +7(727)2640995

CIAO PIZZA

Tole Bi street, 81. Corner of Seyfullin str. Tel: +7(727) 2927161

COFFEE HOUSES There are many coffee houses in the city where you can taste desserts with coffee, tea varieties. There you can also find hot dishes. Every of them have good, quiet, atmosphere. They offer wireless internet if you have your laptop computer with you.

ESPERANZA COFFEE HOUSE

Seyfullin street, 481. Corner of Mametova str. Tel:+7(727) 2996699

COFFEE DELIA

Kabanbay Batyr street, 79. Corner of Tulebaev str. Tel:+7(727) 2726409

BLACK & BROWN 1- Samal Microdistrict, 78. Tel:+7(727) 2726409 2- Seyfullin street, 502. Corner KabanbayBatyr str. Tel:+7(727) 2704411

BISCUIT

Shevchenko street, 18. Corner of Dostyk ave. Tel:+7(727) 2916692

BARS & PUBS

CINZANO BAR

GUN’S ROSES PUB

Dostyk ave. 109. corner of Klockov str. Tel: +7(727) 2531345

Hotel Kazakhstan, Dostyk ave. 52 Tel:+7(727) 2910101

CUBA BAR

GUINNES PUB

Bogenbai Batyr street, 102. Corner of Dostyk ave. Tel:+7(727) 2912932

Dostyk Ave. 71. Corner of Kurmangazy str. Tel:+7(727) 2915585, 2938774

DI WANG Cantonese Restaurant & Lounge Bar

“LOUD” LOUNGE BAR

Zhambul street, 75. Corner of Tchaikovsky str. Tel:+7(727) 2723810

Kunaev street, 64. Corner of Zhibek Zholy ave. Tel:+7(727) 2733665

VOGUE BAR

MAD MURPHY’S IRISH PUB

Satpaev street, 11. Corner of Furmanov str. Tel:+7(727) 2641699

Tole Bi street, 12. Corner of Zenkov str. Tel:+7(727) 2912856

NIGHT CLUBS

ESPERANZA: Discotheque, Coffee House, Restaurant, Striptease Night Club Complex, Seyfullin street, 481. Corner of Mametova str. Tel:+7(727) 2996699

5 OBOROTOV NIGHT CLUB Kabanbay Batyr street, 320. Corner of Rozybakiyev str. Tel:+7(727) 2699813 FASHION BAR Masanchi street, 61. Corner Kabanbay Batyr str. GSM:+7 701 6256161

GRAND OPERA NIGHT CLUB Bogenbai Batyr str. Corner of Shagabutdinov, Tel:+7(727) 2933560 DA FREAK Gogol str, 40. 28 Panfilov Park Tel: 2731337

METRO CLUB Billiards, carting, Bowling, Night Shows, Restaurant Satpaev street. Corner of Zhandosov str. Tel:+7(727) 2470700 MOST CLUB Billiards, Lounge Bar, Bowling, Discotheque, Restaurant Seifullin Street, Below Raimbek Ave. Tel:+7(727) 2330457

NIGHT CLUB “GAS” Shevchenko street, 100. cCorner of Seyfullin ave. Tel:+7(727) 2727474 OPHIUM BAR Auezov street, Corner of Bogenbai Batyr str.

Alternative banner for this article?
I created a new alternative banner for this article (I initially created it first and foremost so that it would be used at the top of the parallel article in the Hebrew edition of Wikivoyage, yet I later decided to also suggest that the English Wikivoyage community would consider using it here as well). So, which banner do you prefer having at the top of this article? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 05:10, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * I strongly support retaining the current banner, which for once cuts off a couple of buildings in an interesting way and shows the Tian Shan Mountains. The suggested replacement looks pretty nondescript to me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:39, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * The article is about a very large city of 1,552,349 people, and I believe that the current banner doesn't give that impression (I am sure that if it was an article about a US city of 1,552,349 people you wouldn't be insisting on using such a photo in the banner). Oh well. ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 05:43, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Don't be sure. I hope you're not insulting me with a baseless accusation of unthinking American nationalism because you're insulted that I described your banner as "nondescript". You do a lot of great work, but this city at night just might not be very interesting. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:55, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Was not insulting. I was just pointing out that in my opinion the banner currently used would probably not be used in an article about a large city in a western country, or the United States specifically. I just cannot imagine the locals in such a city going for a photo like this one to be one that best represent their relatively large city. ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 12:53, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * I absolutely agree with Ikan. I also suggest that we stop useless activity of replacing good banners with something else that may be equally good or just mediocre, as in the current case. --Alexander (talk) 10:24, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Wikivoyage currently has 26,849 articles in the main space... out of those articles... around 16,000 articles still need custom made banners. Although I agree that ideally, all of the 26,849 banners should probably be only created by local experts (whom would also know how to create good compositions and would have knowledge in photo editors like Photoshop), this is impossible to do. In reality only a very small group of people are creating the Wikivoyage banners in a slow gradual process, AND in many cases some of these few banner creators have never been to the destinations they are creating banners for. You see, I have no way of knowing if the current banner Almaty_banner1.jpg was created by a local expert or not. But nevertheless, having discussions like this one, in which we strive to reach a community consesus which takes into consideration many factors, is what eventually helps us clarify which is the better choice. ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 12:49, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * While there's no rule stopping you from proposing new images, and while it's great to replace bad banners with good banners, I too find it a pity that you often invest your time in creating alternatives for perfectly nice banners. You're free to spend your time whichever way you want, but I sometimes fear it might be discouraging for other banner creators when their perfectly fine banners are systematically challenged - at least when there are thousands of articles still waiting for a banner in the first place. Anyway, that's just an opinion :-) As for the question at hand, I prefer the current banner. The new banner is a nice image, but could be any big city and therefore it's not better than the old one. JuliasTravels (talk) 12:58, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * When Wikivoyage would eventually live up to it's potential, and we'll have a very large community of editors from all over the world participating in content creation... I can guarantee you that many of the banners used today would be replaced by other banners that according to the new future consensus (which would not be based on the consensus among a handful of Wikivoyage users, but on the consensus among many many users... as well as the feedback from informative locals experts). All banner creators should be aware of this and understand that banners they create might not be used here permanently (in a similar way, text I add to any article might be changed, removed and/ improved over time). ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 13:21, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Of course they understand that :-) But that wasn't my point. JuliasTravels (talk) 13:24, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with JuliasTravels's point. Keep.  The proposed new banner can be any large city and it's too dark. Danapit (talk) 18:32, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I vote #2 because #1 is unflattering, the building gives a eerie impression which might make it a great picture but does not show the city in a favorable light. In an area where mountains are everywhere, Almaty is the exception, it should be shown as the big city it is. Syced (talk) 09:13, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Keep #1 - Matroc (talk) 06:14, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

Mountains
There are several attractions in the mountains around Almaty that are on the cusp between See / Do in the city, Districts of the city, and Go Next. For simplicity I've created a new section "mountains" following "Do" to draw them together. Views please on whether this helps. Some have accommodation, notably Shymbaluk which indeed has its own page; but as separate destinations they'll never be more than stubs. Grahamsands (talk) 09:14, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:41, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Almaty Central Mosque.jpg
 * Central Mosque of Almaty.jpg

 * The 2nd photo is on the page but not a great photo. Do we want to keep it and upload it locally or give it up? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:43, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

 * I think it's the better of the two, actually. I say keep it locally. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 06:37, 5 February 2021 (UTC)

 * Done. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:55, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Almaty


text:
Talk:Almaty/Travelogue

Moved from Almaty by (WT-en) Evan; kept here as a basis for a travel guide.

I was in Almaty, September 5 - 14, 2003. Mostly for work, but here are two excerpts from my playing-around time.

Saturday - Trip to the Mountains

Almaty's roads are lined with trees and the road to the mountains is green with woods and streams, even after the hot summer. Along the way we passed numerous wedding parties. It seems posing for pictures up in the alpine park is popular. As we wound up into the mountains we came to a very large ice skating stadium, which was the base for a large stairway up the valley to a flood reservoir. We climbed only the last section, which was enough in the thinner air. Almaty is at 800 meters and we were at 2000 meters at that point. We then drove up to the ski village of Chibuluk (sp?) where we parked to take a ski lift to the top of the mountain. Unfortunately, the top two of the three lift sections were closed, so we boarded to go up to about 3000 meters and hike a bit in the sub-alpine meadows. It was a calm, lovely and gentle trip up with our feet dangling in the sunny day. To our backs we could look down the valley to the skating stadium and into the haze, which masked the city.

We walked a bit up the hill (thin air) and heard chatter in Russian, Kazak and English (more American visitors). There were crews breaking from their construction of an additional tramline up a second valley. Based on the rows of new, posh ski chalets, business was booming. My host said skiing is an expensive sport, but there are enough people with money to do it. Lift ticket prices were comparable with the US. But Kazak salaries aren’t!

It was quiet and lovely. After our short hike, we descended and headed back to the city for a traditional Kazak lunch. Again, we passed many festooned, honking wedding parties on the road.

Back in the city we passed the presidential palace, the blue roofed Kazak museum, my friend’s office and apartment building in the heart of the city. New buildings were going up everywhere, some very sleek and modern looking. We stopped off to stroll through the Memorial Park which honors the men from Kazakstan who were slain during Hitler’s march on Moscow. In the park is also an orthodox church built in 1870 without a single nail. Painted in dollhouse colors with a metallic steeple, it glowed in the park. More wedding parties streamed in and out of the church for photo opportunities. We must have seen 15 or 20 wedding parties in our stroll through he park.

Next stop - food! Greeted at the door in Kazak, we entered a modern restaurant designed to carry the feeling of a Kazak yurt. We sat down ordered a cold Russian soup, salad and the traditional Kazak dish of Five Fingers

The soup came with dollops of sour cream and laced with dill. It contained diced potatoes, cucumber, meat and peppers and was delicious. The salad was ripe Roma tomatoes and slices of crisp cucumber. On the table was a basket of traditional fried Kazak bread and little globes that were dried goat cheese curd; salty and said to be tasty with beer. I did not need beer but I bet it would have been good. I gulped mineral water instead, quite dry from our warm hike in the mountains. We also shared a dish of four kinds of rich, oily smoked fish which was delicious. I recognized salmon, but not the other three.

Kazak cuisine reflects the nomadic heritage of the Kazaks who ranged with their livestock and eschewed cultivation and farming. The diet is centered on meat and milk products from camels, beef, goat, lamb and horse. Five fingers is lamb, goat, camel and horse meat that is cooked in broth for at least three hours. The broth is changed a number of times and the period sees the addition of sliced onions and squares of thin pasta. The dish is served on a platter. Traditionally you take the meat and onions, roll them up in the cooked pasta sheets and eat them with your fingers but now forks and knives are acceptable. After you finish the platter of meat and pasta, the condensed broth is served in bowls for sipping or spooning, quite rich with flavor, meat fat and salt.

As I was served a heaping plate, I realized I did not know which meat was which and decided not knowing was an advantage. I sampled them all, knowing I was having my first taste of both camel and horse. The meat ranged from a light, pork color with a rim of fat, to dark red meat that appeared to be processed into a skin with smaller chunks forming the sausage, which was sliced in the dish. I liked the camel meat quite a lot!

Lunch was topped by bowls of milky Kazak tea. The waitress said the exact recipe of the tea is a secret. The base is black tea, but there were other flavors. It was delicious and much tastier than the Kazak tea at the hotel. I was stuffed as we headed back out into the sunshine.

We had intended to go to the Kazak museum and a chocolate factory, but the day was slipping away. I needed to change some money and buy an alarm clock, as I had forgotten mine. After these errands we headed back to the hotel and finished up some work, then had supper in a secondary dining room while a wedding party pounded overhead. In the hall outside of the wedding party, traditional Kazak musicians played the dombek, a two stringed guitar like instrument, accordion and violin, emitting a sweet, melancholy music of the steppes.

Sunday - In Town Sightseeing

Today we went downtown. We passed the old orchards which gave Almaty it’s name (mother of apples) and then went to the newest square of the city where the former capital administration buildings are. Since the capital was moved to Astana, these are now additional presidential offices and other administrative offices. It seems the TV stations have rented space in the former Agricultural ministry offices. The mountains, close but fuzzy through the haze, backed the buildings. Flower gardens framed the front. We walked across the street to a memorial, centered on a tall statue of the golden boy, an early Kazak figure, and circled by metal bas relief panels recounting the history of Kazakhstan, from the time of the fierce Amazon-like queen, to independence 10 years ago. I snapped some pictures, as they were remarkable in their emotion and force. Clearly a land where many have come to dominate over time.

Then we went to the Kazak museum, where we were two of very few visitors on a Sunday midday. We had a guided tour (in Russian, translation by my friend) which started in the pre-history wing where we learned about the dinosaurs that roamed this area, and through the early development of man in this region. In quite a bit of detail I might add. The 45 minute tour of the museum too 90 minutes in the first wing alone! Then it got interesting as our guide showed how the European and Asian blood lines mixed and varied over the centuries. We went through the stone tool age, the bronze age, the arrival of pottery, plumbing, decorated pottery. Artifacts from archaeological digs increased until we found ourselves in the watershed period of Genghis Khan and the great battles fought in this area under his flag and the flag of his sons. There were some moments of hilarity as my friend used literature tips and metaphors to help us identify a word. The identification of a raven came through the memory of Edgar Allen Poe – you know, that poem about the bird? And Robin Hood’s name was evoked to describe a hood!

At the end of this gallery (one of 4) we bid goodbye to our tolerant and knowledgeable guide and decided to just walk through the rest of the galleries on our own.

Next stop was a Georgian restaurant for lunch where we had excellent katchipuri, salty hot cheese filled bread, some lovely eggplant stuffed with nuts, spinach and nuts and a few other dishes. We chatted and enjoyed the meal, then headed to the Arbot, Almaty’s artist row on a tree-lined pedestrian street. We browsed at paintings of Kazak yurts and horses, some pretty bad still lifes, then went in a doorway that led to a veritable indoor mall of small, independent merchants, booth after booth. The first floor was dominated by cell phone merchants and small appliances. We strolled up to the second floor for house wares and tourist ‘stuff’ where I bought some souvenirs and then we eyeballed all the jewelry booths. Mmmmm… some nice contemporary stuff. I bought a ring and a tea cosy.

Our final stop was the green market – my kind of place. Crowded with shoppers, it is divided into two main sections: food and non food items. We started in the food hall loaded with fruit and vegetable stalls, glorious piles of summer fruit at the peak, rows of glistening spicy cold Korean dishes (there is a large Korean population here), fresh cheeses, yogurt from sheep, cow, goat and mare, multihued honeys sold by a babushka’ed grandmother, nuts, dried fruits and at the far end, meat, meat, meat. Kazak’s love their meat.

Knowing I liked chocolate, the next stop was a chocolate shop where I bought a sampling, then we strolled through the non food section, admiring piles of rainbow colored plastic sandals, housewares and pantyhose. Wonderful. I only wish I could have bought some of the luscious melons and salads. Ohhhh….

title: Talk:Almaty/Travelogue


text:
Talk:Almora

Hey Suhasd. You've been working hard on the Alora article. It sounds like a great place. However, I'm afraid that I have had to delete the 'visit' information because it has been copied from and therefore contravenes copyright laws. However, if you can rewrite in your own words, then in will be acceptable. Sorry about that. (WT-en) WindHorse 27 March 06

title: Talk:Almora


text:
Talk:Alnmouth

A small start but much more to do. A picture would really help! (WT-en) Colinc 11:50, 17 July 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Alnmouth


text:
Talk:Aloha

Looks like there;s some good info on this page to help out this article (WT-en) Fastestdogever 15:18, 11 February 2007 (EST)

the understand block.
What does this have to do with visiting aloha? -- anon comment
 * 11 years Katerina, I have removed it. Ground Zero (talk) 05:39, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Aloha


text:
Talk:Along the Magnificent Mile

Push for star
Is this article missing anything other than a map? It certainly seems like one of the best itineraries on the site to me. I think could whip up an map pretty quickly for this one too. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 01:50, 31 August 2007 (EDT)
 * Thanks! The only other thing holding it back is that it makes a couple of references to the article for the Near West Side, specifically sending readers there for Little Italy or Greektown, and the restaurant listings for those two places are pretty weak. That shouldn't take long to fix, though. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 07:54, 31 August 2007 (EDT)

Star nomination
You'll never guess which city this itinerary covers. This is the most heavily touristed part of the city. The itinerary includes a marvelously detailed street map by Peter, and of the three districts it references (Chicago/Near North, Chicago/Loop, Chicago/Near West Side), one is a Star and two are Guides. What say you? (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 01:50, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

 * Support. I suppose this superb itinerary (supplied by Marc) will not soon superannuate nor see its supremacy superseded or otherwise become supplanted by superior star-noms. So let us not superimpose superfluous supplications for supplementals, lest they suppress our support of star status for this splendid, superlative piece. I'll stop now. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 03:06, 1 November 2007 (EDT)

 * Support. I says the same support for said supreme article. Such superlative skyscraping structures! (WT-en) PerryPlanet 13:13, 1 November 2007 (EDT)
 * Support, but would it have been possible to stop sooner? :-) -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 22:23, 2 November 2007 (EDT)

 * Support. Well written and sounds like it gives a good quick snapshot of what the city is about... we need more itineraries like this for other cities... and as far as I'm concerned any article that references Adventures in Babysitting is a shoe-in for star status – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 18:18, 3 November 2007 (EDT)
 * Interestingly enough, there is only one other article to reference this 80's classic, and it is indeed already a star... Conspiracy afoot?  --(WT-en) Peter Talk 04:10, 4 November 2007 (EST)

 * Support. Another fine article by the Dynamic Duo. (WT-en) 2old 15:24, 7 November 2007 (EST)
 * Last call on this one... (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 17:47, 15 November 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Along the Magnificent Mile


text:
Talk:Along the Yangtze River

Is this a region or an itinerary? I'm just wondering what direction it's headed... (WT-en) Majnoona 21:54, 18 May 2006 (EDT)

 * Looks like an itinerary forming, and I for one am looking forward to it eagerly. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 21:58, 18 May 2006 (EDT)

I created it thinking of an itinerary. It spans several regions and partly ties them together. It is not something I'm able to do well; I live in another area of China and don't know this well. But I figure if I start it, others will improve it. (WT-en) Pashley 23:11, 18 May 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Along the Yangtze River


text:
Talk:Alpbach

Detout this guide?
I "patrolled" this guide, but the number of times "most beautiful village" is mentioned is really excessive. I'm too busy to edit this right now, but it's clear what the first task is, for whomever wishes to take it on. And clearly, it's worth keeping the article and just editing it. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 17:35, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

 * No need to edit. Everything was copied from http://www.alpbachtal.at/at/guide/142761sy,en,SCH1/_lang,pl,objectId,RGN336at/home.html, which is marked copyright 2011. I replaced the page with a blank template since it is a real destination.(WT-en) texugo 20:12, 16 May 2011 (EDT)

Page banner
In case this article is created again, we can use the old page banner. --Danapit (talk) 14:45, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * The article should be definitely recreated. I already did the same with Wagrain. Please plunge forward. jan (talk) 14:55, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Jan, I have no idea about Alpbach. Not being a great Alp-fan, I have practically nothing to contribute, except of the banner I have cropped to the correct ratio, that's how the article got on my watchlist. --Danapit (talk) 15:00, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Then just recreate it with a blank template plus the banner. In these cases, if there is anything worth saving that didn't come from WT, please go ahead and recreate it. Texugo (talk) 15:07, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
 * Jawohl! --Danapit (talk) 15:09, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Alpbach


text:
Talk:Alpes-Maritimes

Remaining original copy
The Arriere Pays, that is to say the largely undiscovered 'Back Country', which you get to either through the spectacular Gorge du Loup, or over Col de Vence, or via the stunning perched village of Gourdon or by going up the Route Napolean is far less explored. Even in the height of summer it is still very quiet. However it is a very good base for those who enjoy out door holidays. The website www.pottyplace.com is one of the most informative websites about this area and gives lots of sport related information, useful links and general information about the area, market days, restaurants, villages to visit etc. The area is famous for paragliding and hangliding due to the warm air currents. With lots of natural gorges the area is famous for canyoning and climbing, see the above website for more information. Gorges like Clue d'Aiglun, Clue de Riolan and Clue de St Auban are well worth visiting. Due to the lack of tourist traffic and excellent road surfaces the area is very good for cycling, see cycling itineraries on the above website. The area has lots of forests and again the forestry tracks give lots of scope for mountain biking. Old paths still link the remote villages, they are well sign posted and free of litter, see the suggested walks on the above website. St Vallier de Thiey has 3 show caves which are all worth a visit. The roads in the Arriere Pays Grassois are not for the faint hearted, the film Golden Eye was filmed on the road above Greolieres and the Monte Carlo Rallye goes over Col de Bleyne and down through Le Mas to Aiglun every January.

title: Talk:Alpes-Maritimes


text:
Talk:Alpine (Texas)

Chamber of commerce. (WT-en) Fastestdogever 23:17, 11 February 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Alpine (Texas)


text:
Talk:Alpine pearls

Deletion discussion
Project:Votes for deletion/January 2009

Alpine pearls
I'm nominating this one for deletion just to see what happens. I don't think we generally have articles for tourism associations, do we? (WT-en) Texugo 07:23, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Yah, thats not right, Delete. :) Keep smilin' (WT-en) Edmontonenthusiast 19:45, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Merge into Alps? It would seem a shame to lose this information about sustainable tourism in such a heavily visited region. (WT-en) Tarr3n 10:19, 27 October 2008 (EDT)
 * I was going to say "keep", since I think it could become a viable article. Travel topic, perhaps? However, I Checked for copyvio and found the entire article is word-for-word from Wikipedia.
 * So now I say trash existing text, redirect this to the [Alps] article, and add a sentence or two and a link to alpinepearls.com there. That lets us put links to Alpine pearls in the articles for towns that are involved in the program. If someone later undoes the redirect and writes a real article on these pearls, that's OK too. (WT-en) Pashley 06:10, 19 November 2008 (EST)
 * I speedied it, but immediately restored it. The text was written by a user with the same name on both sites; assuming it's the same person, it's not a copyright violation.  I say just redirect it.  (WT-en) LtPowers 10:39, 19 November 2008 (EST)
 * Delete. Texugo asked the right question, and there's no compelling affirmative answer. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 20:58, 16 December 2008 (EST)
 * I'm starting to reconsider my position here. There is precedent for articles listing destinations bound by some notable, "official" distinction, e.g. UNESCO World Heritage List and UNESCO Creative Cities.  Is UNESCO less a "tourism association" than the people behind this, just because it's associated with the United Nations?  I now incline to keep, but let's discuss once more, then put it to bed. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 13:52, 30 December 2008 (EST)
 * That's the right question, but it contains the word "generally" and this may be an exception. It is travel-related & Tarr3n makes a good point as well. It is not a destination or region in our usual senses, but the info seems worth having. I'm not sure if it should be a travel topic, a redirect to a short section in Alps, or what, but I do not think it's an outright delete. (WT-en) Pashley 23:13, 25 December 2008 (EST)

Result: Consensus is to keep the information found here. A merge can be discussed on the talk page. (WT-en) LtPowers 08:17, 26 January 2009 (EST)

VFD discussion
This has to be one of the weirdest articles I've ever seen on WV. An article for some tourist cooperation organization between different destinations or something. Has anyone heard about this organization before, because I sure haven't, or possibly used the organization's services in some way? I cannot really see how the stuff that's in the article right now could benefit the voyager? I'd say let's delete it (of course the nice banner should definitely be reused somewhere else).

As a side note, in the article's old VFD discussion from 2008 it's mentioned that it's a verbatim copy of w:Alpine pearls, also the tag on the top of the WP article points out that it's written like an ad, which is largely true. ϒpsilon (talk) 18:50, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Delete. Even if it were possible to expand this topic to article length, which I doubt, the fact remains that this is way outside the site's scope. Not to mention the copyvio issues and the fact that no meaningful edits have been made to it since 2008. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 18:57, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Delete - for the reasons outlined above. No worthy context and possible copvyo issues. Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:02, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Comment - An Italian version of this article was created last week, so I think that it might be good to wait a couple of weeks to see if it develops. Otherwise I would agree that it should be deleted. AlasdairW (talk) 23:37, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Delete. I'm having trouble seeing how this could be turned into a really travel-related article. This seems like the kind of remark that could be made in passing in a single sentence in each relevant article: "Town X, as a member of Alpine Pearls (include link), is well set up for visitors without a car." Then, the town's public transportation options can be detailed as normal. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:51, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Leaning toward Delete: As written, the article has no useful info for the traveller, except possibly a list of alpine destinations where you don't need a car to get around. I don't understand German well, but their website seems to be a promotional link farm, and the English version gives a 404 error. Peter Chastain (talk) 07:57, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Keep, but reduce it to something like a disambiguation page; just a one-sentence intro, links to the towns involved, and the WP link for anyone who wants more. A rationale for keeping this sort of article is at Wikivoyage_talk:Search_Expedition. Pashley (talk) 04:47, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

 * Merge whatever might be useful into Alps and then redirect. As noted in the nomination this article went through a VFD previously (see Talk:Alpine pearls) and that was the outcome at the time.  The copyvio concerns were raised in that discussion, but apparently it was the same user who created it here and on Wikipedia. -- Ryan • (talk) • 06:26, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

 * Merge into Alps and redirect. -- DerFussi 20:39, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

 * Delete I think this should be deleted, there doesn't seem to be any information which couldn't go into or is already in Alps Drat70 (talk) 06:52, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Outcome: Merged some of text into Alps. --Traveler100 (talk) 05:00, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Alpine pearls


text:
Talk:Downhill snowsports

ToDo
Glossary:
 * expand it with typical movements and exercices; with equipment most frequently used by an average skier. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 18:29, 13 January 2011 (EST)
 * for every term, provide translation to languages of most popular destinations (French, German, Italian). --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 18:29, 13 January 2011 (EST)

initial comment
This article was begun as an attempt to begin a list of more prominent ski areas and to provide more information on the popular travel topic in general. Feel free to add on as always, but please list major ski resorts only. (The definition I worked with was "would I travel there just to ski?" meaning many smaller resorts, charming as they are, would be out.) (WT-en) Andromeda321 00:17, 26 Oct 2005 (EDT)
 * People could add other, more minor, destinations in region specific articles, such as winter sports in Australia. This is pretty much what I'm doing with Scuba diving and the two (so far) region articles Scuba diving in Australia and Scuba diving in Asia. (WT-en) Hypatia 09:36, 10 September 2006 (EDT)

Snowboarding?
Should this article cover snowboarding too? The sports are somewhat different, but they occur in destinations that overlap significantly and many of the safety concerns are the same. If we had a separate snowboarding article we could cover the different issues there, but the destinations would need to be partly duplicated. (WT-en) Hypatia 09:36, 10 September 2006 (EDT)

Switched Lead Photo
I switched the lead photograph, as it is already used on both the Telluride and Colorado pages. Three times seemed a bit much. (WT-en) WineCountryInn 20:50, 4 February 2009 (EST)

Nordic skiing
Should information on nordic skiing (telemark, cross country) be included on this page as I would be happy to provide information. ( Nordic skiing differs fundamentally in the binding at the heel wher it is unattached) Does a new article need starting even though it is a minority sport. This leads on to whether there should be an article on all snow sports?(WT-en) HJ.Phillips94 13:40, 27 February 2009 (EST)

 * I believe Nordic Skiing is worth a separate article. There are many nordic ski lovers in Russia, Scandinavia, Baltics and (?) Canada--this makes quite a wide audience. So please plunge forward. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 19:17, 4 March 2009 (EST)

beginner with children: factors to consider
We are considering to go to Austria in January for a week of skiing. What factors are foremost to consider in choosing village/resort and hotel, if we are going with a 1.5-year baby, and ourselves are beginner level aline skiers? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:30, 12 October 2009 (EDT)

how to choose skiing school; ski rental shop
What factors should be considered? It it's all about "research recommendations"--where such recommendations can be found? Spefically I'm interested for Austria, but looks like it's better covered here. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 18:20, 3 February 2010 (EST)

 * Don't know about eastern Europe and the rest of the world, but in the Alps and Scandinavia, you're not allowed to operate unless the "teachers" have been on government approved courses, a passed a rather strict exam, which are all pretty similar in a given country (though there are moonlighters), so the competition factors are more in terms of group sizes and prices, than they are about quality - although as with most things you get what you pay for, the really cheap schools often has the least experienced teachers, but you are never going to get complete idiots teaching you, thanks to the strict government regulation.

 * As far as rental places go, you get what you pay for really, cheap=oldest equipment, expensive=newest equipment. And most rental places in the Alps will offer you a choice of both. Often (=90% of the time in France and Switzerland, at least) the chalet manager or hotel has a deal with one of the rental places offering 10-15% discount, so there is rarely any sense in going anywhere else.

 * But this is all very Alp specific I suspect, so it's probably not appropriate for this page. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 18:39, 3 February 2010 (EST)

 * But looks like it could apply to Austria, as most of its skiing (not all?) is about Alps. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 18:50, 3 February 2010 (EST)

 * I guess so, I've never rented ski's in Austria, so while I very much suspect it's the same deal, I can't be certain. As for ski instruction yeah, though it may be more appropriate on the ski section of the Alps page, since there is now a standardized exam and certification on EU level (femps), which has been implemented in Germany, Austria, France and Italy (though not Switzerland or Slovenia) --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) talk 19:40, 3 February 2010 (EST)

 * Then we should probably merge that piece (and probably some other ski-related pieces from Alps) together with Winter sports in Austria and Winter sports in Switzerland. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 19:55, 3 February 2010 (EST)

I've attempted to add some basic recommendations on skiing schools ; please welcome to add whatever looks appropriate. Thanks again! --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 14:24, 23 February 2010 (EST)

showcase articles; pistes details
I wonder whether we have some mature articles which could serve a good example of describing a skiing destination from scratch. Specifically, I am looking for good examples of describing individual pistes and their features--see my first attempt for Mayrhofen: Mayrhofen. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 18:06, 12 February 2010 (EST)

 * 8 years later, I'm with the same question: what are the best-practice articles on alpine-ski destinations so far? Alternatively, what can be the better place to ask that? --DenisYurkin (talk) 19:30, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

 * The destination article I've worked most on is Snowshoe, which is fairly complete in terms of regular content (get in/around, see/do, buy, eat/drink, sleep). However I haven't put anything about the slopes/pistes themselves. To be honest, I'm not sure what information would be helpful. At all ski locations in North America, there are always maps of the slopes readily available. And since people have such widely varying skill levels and interests (racing, terrain parks, off-piste) and conditions vary day-to-day and year-to-year, I can't think of what description I might read or write that would be useful. If you have suggestions for what you think that kind of content should look like, definitely share it here. --Bigpeteb (talk) 22:33, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

 * I implemented some ideas in Mayrhofen article: see #Ski / snowboarding section and, specifically, #Pistes details. --DenisYurkin (talk) 08:42, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Skiing on a budget?
I have absolutely no expertise in this, but any tips on alpine skiing on the cheap, from choice of resorts and accomodation would be very much appreciated. Student reporting. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 134.225.241.176 (talk • contribs)

Broad improvements for this article
This article could use some love and attention. I just did my first ever snowboard trip, and now that I look at this article, it's pretty weak. I'd like to see something more comprehensive, along the lines of cruise ships, so that anyone who's never done it before and has no idea what they're getting in to can understand what's required of them and how to set up a trip. (Although if we could avoid the amount of bloat the cruise ships article has accumulated, that would be nice.)

My broad suggestions, which I'll happily do when I have free time again (work is keeping me busy): --Bigpeteb (talk) 18:25, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Be inclusive of both skiing and snowboarding as much as possible, since 95% of the travel advice applies to both.
 * I strongly suggest we avoid calling it "Alpine" skiing... some of us live on a different continent than the Alps! Calling it "downhill" skiing is accurate, inclusive, and intuitive.
 * For that matter, does Nordic skiing really deserve its own article, or can it be folded in to this one? Are there other activities besides skiing and snowboarding that could be included?
 * Taking in to account the above, this article really should be moved to a new name, but I'm not sure what.
 * Expand the "Understand" section. It should start early with an overview of what a trip is like: lodging, the resort/mountain itself, what you must buy (e.g. lift tickets (explain what those are, too!)), buying vs renting equipment, etc.
 * The advice for people with children or people on a budget is good. I think some of it could be incorporated in to the rest of the article text, but some should remain separate like it is now.
 * The list of destinations should be pruned. It doesn't seem helpful to me to list entire countries like Romania without giving specific places to go.

 * Nordic skiing refers also to cross-country skiing, which has very little to do with downhill snowsports – other than that you can ski to the downhill location or go ski touring from a downhill resort.

 * Telemark skiing, on the other hand, should be included. The technique is different from Alpine skiing, but the resorts are the same. Telemark skiers go off-piste more often, but off-piste skiing should be handled here anyway. Cross-country skiing should of course be linked for some aspects of skiing to more distant hillsides.

 * There are other downhill sports, such as ski jumping and (bob)sledding. I think mentioning them in passing would suffice for now.

 * The issue about destinations is raised also on Travellers' pub. I think the discussion is relevant for most travel activity articles.

 * --LPfi (talk) 08:14, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

What to do with list of ski resorts?
I've been working on Downhill snowsports (a general guide) and Snowshoe (guide for a specific resort). I couldn't find much guidance on the latter... obviously if there's a ski resort that's part of a large city, its information should just go there, but it seems like a lot of ski resorts are far enough removed that the only thing around for many miles is the ski resort and a few inns and restaurants for budget-minded travelers who don't want to stay at the resort. So giving it its own article makes sense to me.

My question is, right now Downhill snowsports contains a long list of "ski destinations". Some of these are individual resorts like Vail and Breckenridge, but others are just entire countries like Romania.

I can see a strong argument for keeping a list, as you really can only ski in particular places. But should it be moved to a separate page? Do you have any other advice for how to clean it up and prune it? --Bigpeteb (talk) 22:06, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

 * I raised the same issue at Whitewater sports. In Downhill snowsports it seems any resort you would go to from abroad is meant to be listed, not only some especially noteworthy places, as I suggest for the former. I think separating the list from the main article would do little good, but pruning will be needed at some point.

 * There is no use linking country articles with no mentioning of snow sports. I think some countries are linked now because there are good ski resorts, but none described in our articles. A short paragraph in the Do sections could be added for those, (red)linking to a few top resorts.

 * As the Colorado and Montana sections show, the list will soon be a mile long. We could have separate lists in articles by country, such as Winter sports in Switzerland and Skiing in Lebanon, where also country specific issues can be handled (also extraregions, such as Swiss Alps could be used). For some regions downhill sport destinations can be handled in general articles, but having a large section on snow sports in, say, USA or France, is hardly ideal.

 * --LPfi (talk) 09:41, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

 * We now listed 60 destinations in the USA, which I think is clearly past any sensible limit. Of those, a dozen had redlinks, a dozen external links and a few didn't link anywhere.
 * Colorado and Montana each have a list of resorts making this list redundant – they actually seem to be identical copies to the lists here. New Mexico has a good non-list overview mentioning all resorts listed here. Vermont has a longer list including external links. I replaced the lists here with links to the sections.
 * Utah has a shorter similar overview, but it doesn't link destinations, nor does it mention all that are listed here (ten across five bullets; eight redlink). I assume we should remove the list here, but assume some edits are due there (or in lower level articles) before the deletion.
 * Down to 8 destinations + Utah and the links to state article sections. Seems OK only Utah gets handled. Adding a lead paragraph or two on what to expect from North American ski resort would be good, to make the destinations section less listy.
 * –LPfi (talk) 10:18, 29 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Winter in the Nordic countries has a commented list, making the 17 bullets here redundant. Replaced with links. Winter sports in Switzerland and French Alps probably allow pruning 11 more. –LPfi (talk) 10:33, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Downhill snowsports


text:
Talk:Alps

Alps are not stretching to Hungary.

Alps a winter destination historically?
Now I don't know how far back in time we want to go, but saying the Alps are "traditionally" a winter destination is just not true. As late as the 1950s hiking and climbing were the things to do in the Alps and hardly anybody even thought about skiing. I don't know how this changed, but the innovations to become attractive in the summer (again) seem to be not all that new after all. Though the "event" certainly has become more important. Back in the day people went hiking, period. Nowadays people cross the Alps on a pogo stick - backwards. While drinking a beverage that films the whole shebang. I am exaggerating a bit of course, but you get the point,  I hope. Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:57, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Are you planning to change the existing text to reflect this? In principle your assertion is correct. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 01:08, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

The regionmap
It is of course better than nothing, but could one that is less blurry be made? Unfortunately, I myself lack the necessary photo editing skills... Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:12, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
 * So who could make a higher resolution map for the Alps? Hobbitschuster (talk) 21:08, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
 * I made a new map. The regions are traced from the old map, so they are really not very exact (don't think that matters), but the countries are from a different source, so it looks much more high-res now. I also made it more like the wikivoyage region map style. Drat70 (talk) 03:16, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Alps


text:
Talk:Al Qadisyah

Err, what/where is this? (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:37, 19 February 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Al Qadisyah


text:
Talk:Alquezar

head to Barbastro
A comment re this edit:

Was:

> Looks like a locals-oriented food shop, but locals consider it extremely expensive and tourists-oriented--and head to Barbastro to buy food.

Now:

''>but locals consider it extremely expensive and tourist-oriented. Head to Barbastro to buy food.''

This edit changes the meaning: I only meant to say that locals prefer to buy food at Barbastro, not to recommend travellers to do so as well (as it's impractical in most cases). How can we preserve my original idea? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 12:15, 19 December 2007 (EST)

Stewed meats
A comment re this edit:

Was:

> Stewed meats (rabbit, partridge, veal) are the most successful in what can be found in local restaurants.

Now:

> Stewed rabbit, partridge, and veal are the most commonly found dishes in local restaurants.

Similarly, my original meaning was not only that these can be found, but that in most restaurants in the town these meals are really good most of the times. How can we reflect this meaning? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 12:15, 19 December 2007 (EST)

 * How about "Stewed rabbit, partridge, and veal dishes are the best bet in most local restaurants." ? (WT-en) Texugo 22:13, 23 December 2007 (EST)
 * This phrasing looks correct to me, as long as the "best bet" idiom doesn't confuse non-native English speakers. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 22:36, 23 December 2007 (EST)

 * Now it does preserves the meaning, so it's definitely better than your previous edition. I will update the article with it. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 02:13, 24 December 2007 (EST)

more comments on Texugo edits
On this edit:

Was: Progressive discounts for second+ activity.

Now: Progressive discounts for the experienced.

I originally meant that you get higher and higher discount as you come for 2nd / 3rd / 4th activity with the same operator during your stay. Experience level of a client doesn't matter. How to make the sentence to state this clear? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 15:44, 6 January 2008 (EST)
 * Let's try "progressive discounts for repeat customers." (WT-en) Texugo 19:43, 6 January 2008 (EST)

 * Agreed; will use your phrasing. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 03:00, 8 January 2008 (EST)

Was: Looks like a locals-oriented food shop, but locals consider it extremely expensive and tourist-oriented.

Now: Looks like a locally-oriented food shop, but locals consider it extremely expensive and tourist-oriented.

I meant that for a traveler, this shop looks like its primary clientèle are residents of Alquezar. However, it is not--which I want to stress here. Does 'locally-oriented' reflect the same idea? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 15:44, 6 January 2008 (EST)
 * I think this one is OK, but if you want to make it absolutely clear you could say
 * "The food shop appears to be oriented towards locals, but the locals consider it extremely expensive and tourist-oriented."
 * (WT-en) Texugo 19:43, 6 January 2008 (EST)

 * Agreed; will use your phrasing. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 03:00, 8 January 2008 (EST)

Was: Soup with beans and pork is quite controversial.

Now: The soup with beans and pork is quite famous.

By 'controversial' I meant that many people who try these dishes will not like it, while many others will. I agree that 'controversial' is not the best term to describe this, but "quite famous" is radically different. What word would best reflect the intended meaning? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 15:44, 6 January 2008 (EST)
 * I see. I wasn't sure what you meant by 'controversial'. It sounded like the soup was somehow either causing verbal arguments or was likely to appear on the front page of the tabloids. Let's try
 * "You'll either love the pork and bean soup or you'll hate it."
 * (WT-en) Texugo 19:43, 6 January 2008 (EST)

 * I have a problem with this, maybe because I'm not a native speaker. To me, "You'll either love it or you'll have" is like "it's either true or false"--giving no information. Maybe we can find something like "Some people will love it, but definitely not everyone"? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 03:00, 8 January 2008 (EST)

 * "You'll either love it or you'll hate it" is almost a set expression in English for this kind of thing, so I really don't see a problem with it, but if you insist, you can try "Some will love the pork and bean soup, but it's not for everyone.", although I fail to see how that provides any more information than what I suggested. (WT-en) Texugo 23:09, 24 January 2008 (EST)

 * Thanks, I used it--it's much easier to live with, at least for me personally :-) --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 01:39, 25 January 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Alquezar


text:
Talk:Altai Krai

Altai Krai
moved from User talk:(WT-en) DenisYurkin

Hi Denis, I have been working on making all of Russia's region pages looking nice. Would you be so kind as to look over the Altai Krai page—I see you are a docent for the region. We need to reduce the number of cities to 5–9 and I'm sure you have a better understanding than I do about which cities/towns are most important for the traveler.

Thanks! --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 22:59, 30 April 2007 (EDT)

 * I'm afraid I don't know that much the relative significance of the towns (and I think only Barnaul and Biysk can be considered cities). From what I know, Novo-Altaisk, Pavlovsk and maybe Talmenka&Zarinsk do not have any particular interest for traveller (except maybe a point on their way to other destinations)--but I gonna ask my friends there to be sure. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 16:44, 8 May 2007 (EDT)

 * I left only 4 cities, moving the rest to Smaller towns. And I completely removed Rubtsovsk and Zarinsk, Pavlovsk, Novo-Altaisk and Talmenka--at least until someone considers them interesting for a traveller.
 * I think it's better to move this thread to Talk:Altai Krai, would you please? --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 03:54, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Altai Krai


text:
Talk:Altamonte Springs

Contact information what is that number for? It doesn't say. --(WT-en) Nuapolo 21:47, 13 December 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Altamonte Springs


text:
Talk:Altana

"Altana is a place in Germany"

According to Wikipedia, it's a company in Germany. Unless information is added that establishes this as a real place, this article will be deleted. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 07:46, 29 May 2007 (EDT)
 * See this Wikipedia reference, to a place in Romania. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 12:26, 24 June 2007 (EDT)

Altana

 * Delete - I can't find anything about this place on the net, which means if it does exist it's very, very small. The page is empty... -- (WT-en) Tim (writeme!) 09:28, 4 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Delete - extremely obscure subdivision of an obscure subdivision of Transylvania. --(WT-en) Peterfitzgerald Talk 16:32, 6 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Redirect to Transylvania as per Project:Votes for deletion. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:38, 7 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Redirect to Transylvania ~ 61.47.94.214 08:30, 7 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Keep, with the redirect for the time being. According to Wikipedia, there is a "commune" (village) by this name in Romania.  See the "Chicken" example at the top of this page. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 12:27, 24 June 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Altana


text:
Talk:Altiplano (Bolivia)

Geographical hierarchy
For the sake of maintaining our geographical hierarchy (which puts cities inside regions inside countries inside continents), I'd like to break el Altiplano into regions that lie within each of the countries it connects. We can maintain isin: Altiplano as an alternate hierarchy, but isin: Altiplano (Peru), isin: Altiplano (Bolivia) , etc. (each of would be "in" Peru, Bolivia, etc.) would be primary. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 23:59, 9 July 2006 (EDT)
 * You're totally right. By the way, the Andes exceptionally have their own article but breadcrumb navigation on articles below it should stick to the traditional country > region > city hierarchy. (WT-en) Ricardo (Rmx) 09:02, 20 October 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Altiplano (Bolivia)


text:
Talk:Altiplano (Peru)

I've been in Peru and in Bolivia, but I've never heard of the Altoplano. AFAIK this region is called the Altiplano. Google results: Altoplano (134), Altiplano (93,800). (WT-en) D.D. 12:12, 29 Sep 2003 (PDT)
 * The right word between these two is Altiplano (for reference see: es:w:Altiplano (Andes Centrales) or Altiplano.
 * Most likely Dhum hasn't ever heard about this name, because Peruvian people divide Perù into three different regions (Costa, Sierra, Selva) or into the administrative provinces. See the following image for details: Peru Provinces Costa Sierra Selva.png. --Andyrom75 (talk) 06:46, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Altiplano (Peru)


text:
Talk:Altitude sickness

Guide status?
Is there anything glaringly obvious about this article that prevents it being upgraded to "guide" status? Project:Travel topic status suggests that a useable article "has at least a good overview of the topic, and some useful material under each outline heading" and a guide article "effectively covers most aspects of the topic with no obvious omissions. If practical, it should contain a listing of relevant destinations. The format should closely match the manual of style." We seem closer to guide than useable here. I don't think there's much of a case for listing destinations, it would just be a huge list of "here's places you can go to get altitude sickness!". It makes much more sense for those articles to link to this, as many are doing. (WT-en) Hypatia 22:22, 15 June 2006 (EDT)
 * I agree, this is a Guide. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 23:19, 15 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Agreed. I've made the change. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 23:34, 15 June 2006 (EDT)

Water
Re:
 * At 3500 meters (11 500 feet), make sure you drink at least 3 litres of water every day. That means, two large bottles of water. Do not leave anything in the bottom, drink it all, even if it feels bad. If you ascend from there, drink even more. A head-ache is the punishment for those who do not heed this advice, and that feels worse.

Anyone got a source for this recommendation? It's mostly one of the leftovers from when I imported the original info in from Peru. I'm a little bit wary of recommending people drink such a large amount of water without a source. Over-hydrating is nasty. (WT-en) Hypatia 08:46, 23 July 2006 (EDT)

I agree with the first part ( drier air means some extra loss of water), and heartily disagree with the later parts. There is no documented good effect from pouring in large amounts of water in to the system, and some experienced docs expressly warns against it :
 * "Adequate amounts of fluid (about 3 liters a day) are necessary in the mountains:- dehydration mimics altitude sickness and may even predispose to it. On the other hand excessive water drinking should also be avoided as this may lead to electrolyte imbalances."

 * (from himalayanrescue.org )

As the body responds to altitude by concentrating the blood by diuresis, you actually work against the body with excessive fluid intake.

Map
In case anyone feels keen, I think this article could benefit from a map of the world with high altitude regions colour coded for various heights above sea level. It's only a rough guide at that scale, but will help put things in perspective for travellers. (WT-en) Hypatia 08:50, 23 July 2006 (EDT)

The Tibet thing
I shortened this at some point and User:(WT-en) Pashley has restored it in a slightly changed form. It's not an enormously big deal to me, but I'm wondering whether there's a reason for going into this detail here, rather than on the Tibet page:
 * For example, flying from sea level to Lhasa Tibet (3650 meters/12 000 feet) is distinctly unwise. Consider spending a week or so somewhere like Kunming (2700 meters) en route. If you are going to travel around Tibet — where some inhabited areas are over 5000 meters and some mountains over 8000 — do not set out until your are thoroughly acclimatised in Lhasa.

(WT-en) Hypatia 01:00, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

It's not a big deal to me either, and it needs to be mentioned on the Tibet page too, but doesn't the detail belong here? Most of the altitude sickness page is heavy on details relevant only to mountain climbers. It seemed sensible to me to have a more purely travel-related example, and Tibet is an obvious one. (WT-en) Pashley 11:58, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

 * As altitude sickness is not only a problem in Tibet, but throughout the whole Himalayan range as well as in the Andes and other mountain ranges over 3,500mts, I think the best place for this info is on the 'altitude sickness' page and with a link from the Tibet article - which actually is already there. However, as Hypatia mentioned, it might be a good idea to also add some specific recommendations for Tibet, such as suitable places for acclimatization, to that article. What do you think? (WT-en) WindHorse 13 Aug 06

 * It just seems a bit specific for me, to be heavily emphasising "If you are going to travel around Tibet... do not set out until [you] are thoroughly acclimatised in Lhasa," because that's not some special property of Tibet. There are also, for example, parts of Nepal you don't want to travel in until thoroughly acclimatised to 3000m+. So I guess my problem isn't so much with the example as that the wording somehow makes it sound less like an example (yes, I know it begins with "For example...") and more like a conclusion to the whole section. Perhaps we need a second example of somewhere else, say, in the Andes: "likewise, you wouldn't travel to X until you were thoroughly acclimatised to Y..." (WT-en) Hypatia 23:00, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

 * Now I realize Hypatia's point. I thought initially it was just a request to place more of the acclimitization info directly onto the Tibet article - I guess I should have read the article first!! Anyway, how about changing the paragraph likewise: 'It is distictly unwise to fly from sea level to any area that is over 3,500 meters. Please see specific country/region articles for recommendations on where to break the journey in order assist acclimitization.' (WT-en) WindHorse 15 Aug 06

 * I think it would be reasonable to say at some point "some areas in which many tourists will want to travel above 3500 metres include Tibet, Nepal etc etc...". The map I suggested some time ago would help too. I just want to avoid any implication that Tibet is the only area in the world where this is a real problem. (WT-en) Hypatia 23:49, 15 August 2006 (EDT)

 * I recently added Overland to Tibet and put some of it there. (WT-en) Pashley 05:25, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

Mountain climbers
What parts of the article seem "heavy on details relevant only to mountain climbers" (quoth User:(WT-en) Pashley above)? It doesn't really read this way to me: I was thinking of my friends who have hiked to Everest base camp when I wrote most of it. There's plenty of non-climbing activities you can do where you will need to do a slow ascent and descend to sleep etc etc. That said, should we change something? (WT-en) Hypatia 23:00, 14 August 2006 (EDT)

Ascent rates
The day one 1500 meter limit appears to be undocumented to me, and goes against known practice. It excludes normal modes of travel to a lot of places (like Golmud, Darjeeling , Manali and Shimla) and even normal cabin pressure. The International Society of Mountain Medicine talks of a first night ("if possible") below 3000. Another example is that the himalayanrescue.org FAQ dont mention the possibility to descend to 2500 after flying in to Lukla, and advises to spend the first night there.

The Death Thing
Deleted the " rare, but not unheard of " comment about death from AMS at 2500 meters : no references for this. It also seems to contradict specialist doctors advice that says get a first night below 3000 - "if possible". See himalayanrescue.org, highaltitudemedicine or International Society for Mountain Medicine.

Adjusted the acclimatisation rates accordingly : 2400 meters/8000 feet max first night, same as cabin pressure. (WT-en) Vistet 11:49, 19 January 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Altitude sickness


text:
Talk:Altoona (Wisconsin)

Re-merge Altoona & Eau Claire?
[To Wistoney:] I've seen you've done a lot of good work and I don't want to do anything to question that. However, I wonder whether Altoona and Eau Claire shouldn't have their information on a single page. They are contiguous and a visitor to either town would probably benefit from the information about the other town. I know that treating Altoona as little more than a neighborhood of Eau Claire would damage civic pride but, focusing on the out of town visitor, it seems to make more sense. Do you agree? (WT-en) Butwhatdoiknow 22:29, 8 October 2007 (EDT) [You can post your response here and I will see it]

 * I, for one, don't agree that it should be merged. Travelers should have no problem clicking over to Altoona to see what's there. I feel that merging the 'burbs into cities blurs and congests city articles and gives short shrift to towns. (WT-en) OldPine 11:42, 9 October 2007 (EDT)

This sounds like a general rule (for which, one hopes, there would always be exceptions in the appropriate circumstances). Are you familiar with the Eau Claire area in particular? (WT-en) Butwhatdoiknow 13:29, 9 October 2007 (EDT)

 * No, I'm not. May I ask why you're so keen on including it in Eau Claire? (WT-en) OldPine 13:37, 9 October 2007 (EDT)

Altoona has a population of about 7,000. Eau Claire 62,000. So this is not really a situation of a city (e.g. Minneapolis) with a suburb (e.g. Bloomington). Rather, it is the city the size of a typical suburb with a contiguous village. And when I say contiguous, I mean it. Unless you know the political boundary, you would not know when you left Eau Claire and entered Altoona. Further, there is nothing that makes Altoona of particular interest as a tourist destination separate from Eau Claire.

So, while the general rule may be to give “suburbs” their own pages, there ought to be an exception when the “suburb” is just too small, indistinct, and lacking in attractions for a traveler to merit a separate page. I respectfully suggest that Altoona is such a “suburb.”

Turning to your question: I am so keen on including Altoona in Eau Claire because I do not want WikiTravel to become so Balkanized that travelers find it of little use without spending hours clicking on separate entries for each tiny community within what is already a fairly small metropolitan area. (WT-en) Butwhatdoiknow 17:56, 9 October 2007 (EDT)

 * Ah well, you see I think that they all merit their own separate page and that travelers are not inconvenienced, nor forced to spend hours. Additionally, I feel that it makes Wikivoyage less comprehensive. You are certainly entitled to your opinion and I know there are others on Wikivoyage who share it. -- (WT-en) OldPine 20:01, 9 October 2007 (EDT)

O.k., let's give it a bit of time and see whether Wistoney will chime in with the rationale for creating the separate page in the first place. (WT-en) Butwhatdoiknow 21:28, 9 October 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Altoona (Wisconsin)