text:
Talk:Rail travel in China

Recent Updates?
Looking at the history, it seems this page hasn't been updated since the Wikitravel migration. Can anyone update for recent changes? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 12:52, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

 * Looking again at this page, it seems very out of date and I feel that it doesn't actually help the traveler anymore. This is obviously down to the rapid expansion of rail in China in a very short time period. Since nobody is maintaining the information can we either:

 * # Rework the article to be shorter?
 * # Delete the article?

 * --Andrewssi2 (talk) 11:02, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

 * Shortening it sounds like a good step to me. Probably the whole routes section can be cut to a short paragraph or, better, summarised in a map.

 * There's an argument for merging it into the China article (or for that matter that it needn't have been separated in the first place), but to me that depends on length. Is there still enough to say here that we should keep it separate? I'm inclined to think so, but not entirely sure. Pashley (talk) 12:20, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

 * I think there should be enough to say for a dedicated page from the perspective of a traveler. For example, many people may not be aware that it is much more convenient to travel between Shanghai and Beijing by train rather than plane since last year. Specific information (for me) would be main routes, average journey time and how to obtain tickets at each of the main stations.

 * I would like to remove:

 * A) Specific models of train: The trains are fast and we know how long the journey will take.
 * B) Maglev: It is 'high speed rail', but only relevant for travel inside the city of Shanghai.
 * C) Related Developments section: There is nothing here that helps the traveler. Mostly trivia.

 * I would like to keep:
 * A) Types of service (without the train models)
 * B) Lines in Service (although in a consistent table)

 * How does this sound?--Andrewssi2 (talk) 13:40, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

 * I removed 'related developments' and cleaned up the Maglev section as a starting point --Andrewssi2 (talk) 12:58, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * It would look better if the routes were converted into a table instead of a list. Right now it looks sloppy.Altaihunters (talk) 02:12, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Quite a big task though, and I'm wondering if the article should focus on the major lines. Andrewssi2 (talk) 04:10, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Routes between the biggest cities
I'm glad to see that the near unusable list of train lines has been replaced by a SVG map by User:Jpatokal.

I wonder however if we should keep some high level route descriptions between the biggest cities? (i.e. Shanghai->Beijing) Andrewssi2 (talk) 05:32, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

 * I think some particularly useful routes (HK<->SH<->BJ) plus some sample fares would be handy. But I'm not entirely convinced this article is worth keeping, might be better to merge it back into the main China page. Jpatokal (talk) 10:42, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

 * Generally speaking I am not for creating extra superfluous articles, although I actually believe this should be an exception. My main reason is that China is already a monster article and the train system there is actually complex enough to merit its on article in terms of how to take a train and plan a journey. Pinging User:Pashley for his opinion. Andrewssi2 (talk) 13:09, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

 * I'm pretty much neutral here. This article seemed like a good idea five years ago when it had only a short list of routes and these trains were not a major way of getting about. Now, I wouldn't miss it. Pashley (talk) 21:41, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

 * I'm on the side of 'keep', albeit very mildly. I wouldn't be keen to see the large rail map on the China page itself. Andrewssi2 (talk) 00:49, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Expansion beyond China?
There was once a section on longer term proposals, routes to Moscow, India and Singapore. It was deleted.

At least one of those, through Laos to Bangkok and Singapore, appears to be going ahead. Pashley (talk) 07:16, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

 * I saw that article as well. It is a serious proposal by Beijing, although apparently it would make Laos one of the world's most indebted countries. The Asia development bank says it is unaffordable.
 * It is probably worth noting as a potential project. Andrewssi2 (talk) 07:52, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

 * Wow! Chinese experts 'in discussions' over building high-speed Beijing-US railway

 * I've also seen reports they are talking to Argentina, Brazil & others about building railways there. Pashley (talk) 00:24, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Certainly ambitious :) I see these discussions as ways to build up China's credibility as a railway superpower and provide momentum for regional projects as well as exporting to new markets such as South America.
 * In the short term the high speed connection to Hong Kong will be an important 'cross border' milestone, and a journey to Singapore may be possible in the next couple of decades.
 * Personally I am hoping for a Beijing->Pyongyang->Seoul high speed connection since the distances are short, but I don't think it will be polically feasible. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 00:48, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Great, they are about to start building the high speed rail to connect Thailand.
 * Construction starts next year with completion planned for 2021. Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:28, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

A new line to South Korea is proposed. This one will have the most political obstacles, but great if it works out: http://shanghaiist.com/2015/03/24/beijing-seoul-high-speed-rail-2030.php Andrewssi2 (talk) 06:48, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Why two rail maps in this article?

I just noticed this thumbnail image at the top of the article.

 * 1) Why do we need an image that shows (HSR and non-HSR) rail networks in neighboring countries?
 * 2) Why do we this this image at all given there is a comprehensive route diagram lower down in the article?

If no-one objects then I would remove this thumbnail later. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 11:29, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

 * I'd say it can go. Pashley (talk) 11:42, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

 * I removed that map and placed it in East Asia instead where it fits much better. ϒpsilon (talk) 15:18, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Subway map of China HSR network
I'm not suggesting to replace the existing HSR map with this new 'subway style' map, but I felt it would be interesting to place on the discussion page. [image since deleted] --Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:39, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

 * Actually, on second thought this map is much more helpful in planning a rail holiday in China than the existing one. You can actually see the line connections between two cities. What do you think? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:53, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Silk Road
I have to ask, the planned / announced Silk Road... I thought this was only / primarily for freight. Are there plans for scheduled high speed passenger services? Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:45, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

 * http://shanghaiist.com/2015/11/21/china_proposes_silk_road_high_speed_rail_line.php --Andrewssi2 (talk) 08:57, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Huh. Probably end-to-end passenger travel will be an afterthought, though. Although an itinerary Tehran to Ürümqi railroad if and when it opens would surely be epic. I do hope they quadruple track, because mixing fast and slow trains drastically decreases capacity for both (that's why most HSR lines that have cargo trains only run them at night). However, building a line for both freight and people will drastically increase cost, because cargo trains can deal with curvy track (which HSR can't) and High Speed trains can deal with relatively steep inclines (4% on the Cologne-Frankfurt route for example) whereas freight trains can't... But in all likelihood that proposal is the same vaporware that 50% (at least) of all "proposed" high speed rail projects are. To list but a few: Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, Florida, Wisconsin, Ohio, New York - Canada, Poland, all German Transrapid proposals (including: Ruhr Area, Munich to Munich Airport, Berlin Hamburg, Berlin-Prague) and probably a couple of others I forgot about. Unless there are already tracks being laid, a bit of skepticism is always in order... And I do think that once someone runs the numbers, they will find out a v(max)=120km/h freight route does the trick for almost all the uses the Chinese currently need such a route for... Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:20, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
 * As a side note the "Siberian-less Transsiberian" route from Moscow via Kazakhstan (Almaty or Astana) to Urumqi and further to Beijing is sometimes referred to the Silk Road train route. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:52, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Possibly. The recent cancelation of Chinese HSR in Thailand resulted in the refocus on a freight line. Nevertheless the proposal seems official, and as far as I know no ground has been broken on any of the international routes. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 19:35, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Washington Post: China’s new train line to Iran sends message to Trump: We’ll keep trading anyway. Freight only so far, but in service. Pashley (talk) 00:03, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
 * A freight train run for political reasons is not the same as a high speed railway for passengers... Hobbitschuster (talk) 01:39, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Access to greenfield stations
So apparently the majority of High Speed Rail services in China only serve greenfield stations in most cities. The text now goes into some detail as to how to reach them by road and the problems with that but is mostly silent on public transit. Am I to understand that the majority of them are only served by buses and taxis (if that) and are not connected to urban rail nor are there services from the legacy station directly to the greenfield station? If so that surely bears mentioning. Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:53, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

 * I've expanded a bit on that. Of course if a city has a subway system at all, or plans to get one, it will build a line to the new train station (the area around which it will try to develop as a new business center, with hotels, shopping malls, office towers, etc),  but it may take time. A city may have a particular bus route linking a "legacy" station (if it has one) with the new one, but it is not a given; the new bus routes may have their own logic. The section was actually inspired by Hekou North, where the city workers are now busy making a huge cut through a mountain to build a grand boulevard to the grand station square... while the passengers, for the time being, travel to the station literally through somebody's backyards! :-)  -- Vmenkov (talk) 06:15, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Simply "Rail rail travel in China"?
Should we expand this article to cover all types of trains (not just high-speed), and rename it to Rail travel in China, similarly to how it's done for most other countries under Rail travel? I think it would make sense, since many sub-topics (buying tickets, entering stations, etc) are common for HSR and "conventional" trains. -- Vmenkov (talk) 13:05, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I have not been to China, so take this with a grain of salt, but as far as I am informed, HSR stations are often not served by "normal" trains and vice versa, there is more security theater associated with HSR, HSR is much more desirable to foreign travelers and there is a general ban on smoking on HSR (which doesn't exist on other trains) so the two are notable different. To an extent that they aren't necessarily in other countries... Hobbitschuster (talk) 14:12, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
 * (1) There is quite a bit of separation between HSR and conventional trains (after all, they use different tracks), but there are lots of stations with joint service. The arrangement seen in many major cities is as follows: there is one new HSR station which [normally] is only served by HS trains (Shanghai Hongqiao, Fuzhou South, Nanjing South, Wuhan, Hefei South), and one or two older stations which handle the "conventional" traffic, but also receive quite a few HS trains (in particular, those for which this city is the end point, or those that come from lines that are not conveniently connected to the HSR station) (Shanghai [Main], Fuzhou [Main], Nanjing [Main], Wuchang and Hankou, Hefei [Main]). Rarely, the opposite happen: one station for conventional only (Chongqing), the other for conventional and HSR (Chongqing North). Complete separation between HSR and conventional happens too of course (Kunming South / Kunming [Main], Xi'an North / Xi'an [Main]).  (2) Desirability of HSR (vs conventional) for foreigners: I think that strongly depends on the route and the individual preferences. When traveling to a specific station, there may be no choice. If traveling, say, 1000 km between major cities (e.g. Wuhan-Guangzhou), there may be a choice between 4-6 hours on an HSR train, or 11-12 hours on a conventional train. If I can get a bunk to sleep on a conventional train with a good overnight schedule, I'd rather take that, as compared to spending half a day sitting in an HSR train! (3) Smoking: yes, HSR are completely smoking-free. On the conventional trains, I think, one is only allowed to smoke in certain sections (the corridors where you walk from one car to the next one), not in the main body of the car. But I neither smoke nor am particularly sensitive to small amounts of smoke, so I never paid attention to these issues, and may be wrong. -- Vmenkov (talk) 12:53, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Proposal to rename the article
There is a lot of information on general rail travel in the China article, and there is a consensus that some of it should be combined with this article into a Rail travel in China article in this discussion. Doing so would have to take into account the separation from of services in many places discussed above. I am proposing to rename this article and merge the info it. Ground Zero (talk) 02:27, 28 May 2019 (UTC)

 * Support – your average train passenger is trying to get from point A to point B, and it's easier to be able to understand and compare the options all on one page. I think there's enough in common between the types of trains anyway (there are more two, by the way – see Rail transport in China). —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:22, 28 May 2019 (UTC)
 * Support - To a point previously made that there is quite a bit of separation between conventional and high speed trains, look at Rail travel in Japan. It covers both conventional and high-speed trains, as well as private railways, and Japan has a clear separation between private and JR stations. I think that is a well-written and well-organised article whose template we could follow. The dog2 (talk) 22:22, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

I've moved the article, and added in a bunch of text moved from the China article. I've integrated the two sections of text as best I can, but there is still more to do. Some help would be appreciated, especially from someone with recent experience with Chinese trains. A review to make sure that I haven't misundersttod any of the points being made would be helpful. Also, how much of the luggage advice applies to both types of trains? Thanks for any help. Ground Zero (talk) 18:59, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

Images
I think there are too many images now, maybe mainly because I don't like the galleries - those photos are too small, and this site normally frowns on galleries; see WV:Image policy. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:13, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

 * There are too many pictures of train stations and seating on the trains — I mean, a chair is a chair, right? --Comment by Selfie City  (talk about my contributions ) 03:17, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

 * Would anyone object if I simply delete the galleries? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:38, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

 * I'd say about half the photos should go, starting with the galleries. Pashley (talk) 01:19, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Wow. That's a lot of pictures. I'd say half would be a good start. Ground Zero (talk) 01:33, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I took out some; it likely needs more trimming. Pashley (talk) 01:56, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks, guys. I removed the picture of the Western toilet, which I didn't think anyone really needed to see. One obvious place to consider trimming is that there are now 3 pictures of high-speed rail tickets. Do we need all of them, because they're sufficiently different from one another? If not, which pictures are most useful? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:15, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
 * 1 and #3 are quite similar in format, but pic #1 is easier to read. I'd drop #3. Ground Zero (talk) 17:30, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Probably because of the contrasting background. I removed the other photo. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:46, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
 * I also removed the Nanjing South platforms picture. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:48, 19 December 2018 (UTC)

Style point
"First Class", "first class", or "First class"? I think the last one is probably not possible. Which one is right? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:11, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
 * "first Class" is out entirely? Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:41, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes. :-) I would think it would be "first class", but I would listen to an argument that it's a proper name and treated as such by Chinese railways. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:46, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

"These trains could serve"
The mentioned wording makes no sense and is bad English. Can somebody please replace it with better English? Hobbitschuster (talk) 13:06, 1 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, of course you can. Wikivoyage is "the travel guide that you can edit". Ground Zero (talk) 13:28, 1 June 2019 (UTC)

High speed and regional, and post-merger work
There was a section "International and regional routes" under High-speed rail, which was made independent, because "really related to HSR?" The lines mentioned seem mostly to be K trains, which are said to be conventional, so the change seems right.

The problem is that the text is still in relation to high speed rail: "This is the first 'cross border' high-speed connection ...". I think the current text should largely be replaced by text about getting into and out of China by rail, and perhaps some moved to the High-speed rail intro.

I am also not entirely happy with the structure
 * Types of trains and services
 * Classes
 * Booking tickets
 * Train stations
 * Travel tips
 * High-speed rail
 * International and regional routes

Most sections have some information on high-speed rail, often as a separate section, and the High-speed rail section has subsections with part of the content similar to that of the sections above. I understand this is because of a merger where the content was not rewritten, but that work should be done. I don't have the knowledge to do it sensibly.

--LPfi (talk) 15:54, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

Tickets - new procedures
Since mid-2019 new procedures have been introduced for tickets. Paper tickets are no longer required (in fact not even used). Passengers enter stations with their ID cards or passports and then they board the trains through the turnstiles using their ID cards (main channels) or passports (manual channels). For those with passports they just place it on a passport reader and it verifies that you have a ticket booked for that train. All stations I have used in recent months (Shanghai, Nanjing, Hefei, Hangzhou, Xiamen, Xuzhou) have used this system. Paper tickets are only needed now for those who need reimbursement from their companies and showing a paper ticket instead of your ID will not even get you onto the train. The same procedure (ID cards and passports) is also used for exiting the platform area on arrival.--Xania (talk) 13:16, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Rail travel in China


text:
Talk:Hikes in the Lake District

Hmmm, I'm not quite sure how this fits in with our Project:What is an article? guideline... I think it may fit in best as a Do for the nearest town. Other thoughts? (WT-en) Majnoona 23:57, 19 May 2006 (EDT)

The hiking is the dominant activity in the Lakes; certainly it takes centre stage over and above any of the nearby towns, which have largely grown into being service centres for the hikers. I think this is one of those exceptions to the rule, where it does deserve its own article - it is the primary reason for being in the Lakes.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Hikes in the Lake District


text:
Talk:Hiking in South Africa

Why this page?
There are literally thousands of hiking trails in South Africa, but nowhere can one find a listing of them all (or at least most of them) with any decent level of detail.

I'm going to start collecting them here. The info on this page can then be copied out to other city and region articles as well.

I'm not totally sure exactly how we should order or group the different trails in this article; if anyone has any ideas, please respond here.

(WT-en) NJR_ZA 16:25, 19 January 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Hiking in South Africa


text:
Talk:Hiking on Mount Desert Island

Shouldn't this article be part of Mount Desert Island? I suggest merging with Mount Desert Island under a section called Hike. We do not generally write these sorts of Travel topics articles at a destination level. We may write them at a country level, to point to all the destinations where hiking can be done, but not at a destination level, where all the relevant information should be in one article. So that only one article needs to be downloaded for everything relevant. -- (WT-en) Huttite 16:25, 14 Jan 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Hiking on Mount Desert Island


text:
Talk:Hill Country

Bee Cave
It isn't really big or worth mentioning, in my opinion. It's basically a suburb of Austin. (WT-en) Jordanmills 18:39, 23 January 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Hill Country


text:
Talk:Hillerød

Format
Something is wrong with the formatting, edit links are all over the place, could use some help

Nevermind, someone had been stupid with the pictures :-) (WT-en) Sertmann 14:01, 6 September 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Hillerød


text:
Talk:HILLVIEW PARK

Bad form to have an all capitals title. Hill View Park appears to be a suburb or district of Asansol in India, so redirect there. The reference to Bidhan Chandra College (S B Gorai Road, Asansol) suggests there is an accommodation house across the road with capacity for 180 homes, 900 people and 1 children? Sounds like nonsense, and insufficient information to decypher what is trying to be said. So make a redirect to Asansol as this article will not exist on its own. It is an orphan dead end page. - Hopefully the anonymous user will get the message, and contribute to the correct page. -- (WT-en) Huttite 09:23, 13 January 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:HILLVIEW PARK


text:
Talk:Hilo

This is great! So nice to see someone tackle Hilo. Mahalo everyone! It's a great start but I'm wondering if we want to break it down a bit-- maybe into areas? Hilo's a small city, but there's a lot going on... suggestions? (WT-en) Majnoona 23:56, 20 Jul 2004 (EDT)

Thanks Maj. I was actually thinking that it was pretty limited. I suppose we could break Pahoa off into it's own entry, as well as Volcano. I think we should wait for it to get a little bigger first though. Just my $0.02. (WT-en) James Wed Jul 28 11:54:44 HST 2004

 * Yes, there are a lot more things here than what is listed! I live here and the Hilo entries could be improved upon! Nothing about the arts is mentioned much. There are a lot of nice galleries here.

 * Please Project:plunge forward and contribute some entries you thik worthwhile. -- (WT-en) Huttite 06:00, 17 Jan 2006 (EST)

What to do to prepare this for a front-page feature
This is a Guide and it seems to me to cover the city pretty well. Do some listings need updates? Anything else needed before a Destination of the month/Off the beaten path nomination? And which one? Perhaps otbp, because it's on the less-touristy rainy side of the island? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:40, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

 * I've planned to nominate this one for OtBP (after all Hawaii is more about beaches, nature and volcanoes than cities?) for January or February 2016. But there's still three months and a few days before January's slots will show up in the Dotm table. And almost ten months before it would go on the main page.
 * The article would need POIs and a map, and it would need to be checked whether all businesses are still in business :). Then it's ready for feature. ϒpsilon (talk) 11:30, 17 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Hilo is a small city, and not far from some decent snorkeling, but the dry Kona side is definitely the beaten path for tourists. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:57, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

Tour guides
I'm sympathetic to the idea of steering business to Hawaiians, but this seems to violate Wikivoyage's tour listing policy, so I've moved it here for discussion. If anyone feels like I made an error, please make your argument.

For family - friendly, educational, personal tours of Hilo and Hamakua waterfalls, Hawaii Volcanoes National Park, and other locations on the island of Hawaii, check out Native Guide Hawaii (+1 808 982-7575).

My understanding is that the only place you absolutely need a guide is if you want to walk on the new lava and down to where the lava is flowing from Kilauea to the ocean. That's a dangerous trek because the new lava is like sharp glass, and doing it without a local guide is not only illegal but probably not possible. But these other places can be visited without a guide. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:51, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Lava flowing into the ocean
I've been loath to bring up the photo of lava flowing into the ocean, because I like the photo so much, but where that flow occurs is well south of Hilo, in a zone that is illegal to visit but which some people visit, anyway, with local guides (there are villages in the restricted zone where Native Hawaiians live, and they are allowed entry but others are not supposed to be allowed in). So maybe we should remove that photo from this article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:05, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * If it's not in Hilo, the photo should be in the Go next section or maybe Big Island or some other article. ϒpsilon (talk) 15:15, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Unless we recommend an illegal or at least questionable tour of the new lava in "Go next", I think Big Island is the appropriate place to put the thumbnail. Are you OK with that? Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:30, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes. BTW the site is perhaps visible from a safe/legal distance by using good binoculars? I would imagine that if there's lava flowing into the ocean there is at least going to be quite a bit of "smoke". ϒpsilon (talk) 15:50, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
 * You can see into the caldera of Kilauea at Volcanoes National Park, but I don't know if you can see this view without being illegally close to it. I'm not sure, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:21, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I moved this image to Big Island, which I think is the best place for it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:44, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Bicycle shops
I didn't rent any bicycles when I was staying near Hilo, but I've found sites for 3 shops: Da Kine Bike Shop, Mid Pacific Wheels and Hawaii Rentals & Adventure. I suppose listings should be created for these shops, and some things can be gathered about them from looking through their websites. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:23, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hilo


text:
Talk:Hilton Head Island

I don't think there's another Hilton Head Island, so I'm going to take out the disambiguator and move this to Hilton Head Island. --(WT-en) Evan 22:53, 18 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Page Refresh
I've been making some tweaks to the page to provide more information, including adding an Understand section, and updating some of the Get In/Around information. Let me know if you have any idea for additions to help make the page better. JackHahne (talk) 11:43, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hilton Head Island


text:
Talk:Hilversum

Budget/mid-range/splurge
At King's IJscafe it's €7 for just one ice cream, so quite expensive, thats why I placed it at mid-range. But well, it's (absolutely seen) cheaper than some budget restaurants which offer €10 for a full meal. Should this be a budget or mid-range listing? (WT-en) Globe-trotter 19:07, 1 September 2009 (EDT)

Closed listings
Seems like the economic crisis made the situation worse for some companies. Some companies closed, such as the last budget hotel in Hilversum :(

 * The oldest hotel in town from 1880, it's a fine budget hotel. It is in the heart of the center, so interesting for backpackers. Plenty of bars are in the area, so the noise can be disturbing, especially Fridays and Saturdays. Indefinitely closed.

(WT-en) Globe-trotter 13:10, 6 September 2009 (EDT)

And another listing that couldn't cope with the economic crisis:

 * Best place to browse for cheap used clothes. Some extravagant lamps bright up the place, and the employees are glad to help you pick. There is a wide selection of shoes, tops, accessories and more.

 *

--(WT-en) globe-trotter 06:23, 17 January 2011 (EST)

Add listing in early 2010
This listing opens in early 2010, so add it at that time:

 * Formerly named de Tagrijn, that stage burnt down to the ground in 2007 and left Hilversum without a music venue. Currently closed, but scheduled for opening in early 2010, de Vorstin will be a pop podium with live bands and a music cafe.

(WT-en) Globe-trotter 13:10, 6 September 2009 (EDT)

 * Opening has been moved to September 2010. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 10:10, 9 July 2010 (EDT)

 * Moving it back now, it's opened. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 16:55, 20 September 2010 (EDT)

Hilversum is not a city.
Hilversum has no city status. It has applied several times and been refused the title of city.

title: Talk:Hilversum


text:
Talk:Himalayan North

Article title
...just a suggestion. The title Himalayan North implies that the article discusses the northern part of the Himalayas, which it does not. The northern part of the Himalayas is in Tibet/China. All parts of the Himalaya that are in India, Nepal and Bhutan are actually the south or south facing part of the mountain range. If you want to distinguish the states included in this article from those of the plains, I think just 'Himalayan' would be a more accurate title. Anyway, this is just a suggestion. As king of the India page, I'll leave the decision in yor capable hands. Anon. 1 Jan 06
 * Sorry forgot to answer this.. Problem is, the Himalayas stretch all the way till the east of India, so I wanted to make it clear that it was the Himalayan part of North India that was being covered. I hope it won't cause much confusion. And I am not the "king" of the India page. I do what I can, but I do hope others participate too :) (WT-en) Ravikiran 12:41, 6 Jan 2006 (EST)

Banner from wrong region
The banner image is not from a place covered by this article. It is from near Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh, North-Eastern India. Nurg (talk) 02:04, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Tawang needs a custom pagebanner. Would this one be appropriate to move there? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:04, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I moved the pagebanner to Tawang. A new pagebanner is needed for this article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:42, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, how do we get the pagebanner I moved to Tawang to stop showing here? I guess something has to be done on Wikidata, but I don't know what or how. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:49, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I've temporarily deleted the default pagebanner, which I know isn't desirable, but neither is showing a picture from across the country. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:52, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The banner was added at Wikidata, in which case it overrules the default banner here. I have removed it from there, so the default banner should display correctly now. Vidimian (talk) 22:01, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I couldn't figure out how to find it at Wikidata. How do you find banners there? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:01, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * (Almost?) every guide in Wikivoyage has a link to the corresponding Wikidata item on the left side of the screen, inside the "Tools" section. For example, your hometown links to this data item. When you open it, you can see a main header which says "Statements". Under that header you will see a box saying "Wikivoyage banner", if there is a banner associated with the guide in question and if that banner is already added to Wikidata. You can change or altogether remove the banner by editing that statement. (The Big Apple's data item is a little too crowded, so you can also check out the one for the Plains of India region for easier reference.) Vidimian (talk) 23:20, 5 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:57, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I put in banner of a view of the Northern Himalayas, it is a nice picture but the drawback its a view from the Tibetan side - looking around to see if I can find another. - Matroc (talk) 04:00, 6 October 2015 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:38, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Snow Leopard in Hemis National Park.jpg

title: Talk:Himalayan North


text:
Talk:Himalayas

Purpose of this article
I think an overview of the Himalayas is a worth while thing to have up, both for travelers still thinking where they want to go, and to give an idea of how the different Himalayan regions relate to one another, and how the area as a whole relates to the neighboring areas. I've got this stub up, and I think it's got enough info on it to justify saving the page, and building on what I've done so far. Hope you all agree.(WT-en) keithonearth 17:08, 13 March 2006 (EST)

 * Unless you disagree, can you move this page to Himalayas? There are a lot more articles linking to that term. -- (WT-en) Ryan 17:14, 13 March 2006 (EST)

 * Fine with me, I'm not bothered about the name Himalayas/the Himalayas/Himalaya. All good.  But we should still do a redirect from the name not used for the artical.  No? (WT-en) keithonearth 19:03, 13 March 2006 (EST)

 * Not quite sure what you mean by "we should still do a redirect from the name not used for the artical" - anytime you do a page move it turns the old page into a redirect, so hopefully that covers your concern. I've gone ahead and moved the article, so leave a note here if you have any issues with the new name. -- (WT-en) Ryan 19:44, 13 March 2006 (EST)

vfd discussion

 * Himalaya - the title is not specific enough for an article and it seems to be just an ad. (WT-en) WindHorse 8 March 06
 * Keep it. An overview of the Himalayas, following the layout of the Alps would be useful for travelers thinking about where to go. I'll cut the External Link, and get a stub up. (WT-en) keithonearth
 * If we keep it, redirect to Himalayas. But should we have articles for mountain ranges? (WT-en) Huttite thought so and used to link them. It will create problems for our geographical hierarchy if we do.--(WT-en) Ravikiran 22:19, 12 March 2006 (EST)
 * Keep it. So far our policy exceptionally accepts such ranges as regions. I see no reason to delete it unless the policy is changed. (WT-en) Ricardo (Rmx) 22:45, 12 March 2006 (EST)
 * Sorry, since I put it up for deletion, someone has added information. Now it seems more like an article. Previously, t was just the title with an advertisement. However, if you decide to keep an article on this mountain range, I would suggest 'the Himalayas', as a more appropriate title. (WT-en) WindHorse 13 March 06

Links to things further west?
The article mentions the Pamir Knot but does not link to the existing (quite weak) article on the Pamirs. Should it? That article covers a region in Tajikistan; is that all of the Pamirs or do we need more articles & perhaps a disambig page?

What about the Wakhan Corridor which certainly goes through some Himalaya-related mountains, though I am not sure what that group are called? Or the Salang Pass across the Hindu Kush? There is another range along the Afghanitan-Pakistan border, with the Khyber Pass across it; I do not know the name of that range either.

I suspect this article needs more text, and ideally a map, to explain what ranges are where and how they are related. I suspect many travellers will have no clue what the "Pamir Knot" is and quite a few may not recognise "Hindu Kush". Should we create redirects for those pointing to this article & explain them here?

User:Saqib; is this something you might help with? Pashley (talk) 23:55, 14 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think mountain range located outside five countries (India, Nepal, Bhutan, China, and Pakistan) should be covered in this article because officially only these five countries house Himalayas. And yes certainly we should created redirects as well a map. I'll try to create a map as soon I get some time but may take some time. --Saqib (talk) 10:54, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

Alternative page banner
The banner on this page looks like some tiny little hills and does not remind me of the highest mountains in the world. We have got an alternative through the Wiki Loves Earth competition. What do you think about it? --Alexander (talk) 07:31, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Looks good to me. Pashley (talk) 11:36, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

 * I agree, the new one looks better. —Granger (talk · contribs) 12:15, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

Changed, thank you. --Alexander (talk) 17:16, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

Map format
I think the current format of Himalayas, with the map taking most of the page & Pakistan text reduced to a narrow column, is remarkably ugly.

I think it needs some sort of section break to put the text after the map, but did not work and I did not find an alternative with a quick browse through the manual of style. Alternately, we might drastically reduce the map width. Pashley (talk) 06:02, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

 * How about giving the map its own section and putting the "Pakistan" section below it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:14, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Himalayas


text:
Talk:Hinchinbrook Island National Park

PI Resort
I assume that the "PI Resort" that's referenced a few places in the article is the Hitchinbrook Island Wilderness Lodge & Resort listed under Sleep, but I don't understand what "PI Resort" itself means. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 11:10, 9 June 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Hinchinbrook Island National Park


text:
Talk:Hindi phrasebook

The comment about Hindi books in India is very true, although India is an ideal place to learn Hindi! ;-) (WT-en) Jeremy 16:10, 17 Feb 2004 (EST)

I am interested by this. Should we use the Devanagari script? (WT-en) Yann 09:55, 19 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * Of course. It'll take some explanation of how to put letters together (e.g. rkshi looks completely different from any of the individual letters), but it's not that hard to learn, and it'll be easier to find a Hindi keyboard layout than one which has d's with dots under them. See Greek phrasebook and Hebrew phrasebook. -(WT-en) phma 10:41, 19 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * Agreed. However, phoneticizing the phrases in the phrasebook becomes more important when there's a non-Roman script used.

 * This is a good phrasebook to start. --(WT-en) Evan 10:50, 19 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * Agreed. I like it. (WT-en) Jeremy 16:10, 17 Feb 2004 (EST)

Should Hindi and Urdu be two phrasebooks, or one phrasebook with two scripts? -(WT-en) phma 15:49, 19 Jan 2004 (EST)

I'm voting for one phrasebook with two scripts and a lot of explination. We don't have two phrasebooks for France-French and Quebec-French and Hindi-Urdu is probably even closer (more info than you probably want at http://sasw.chass.ncsu.edu/fl/faculty/taj/hindi/abturdu.htm, http://www.geocities.com/sikmirza/arabic/hindustani.html). I would suggest moving the page to Hindi-Urdu phrasebook though, just to be clear and fair. (WT-en) Majnoona 23:01, 19 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * ok for me. (WT-en) Yann 04:56, 20 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * I put most of the pronunciation key in and moved it, ready for you to type Nagari instead of the transliteration, but since I don't know the language, only how to pronounce it, that's it for me. -(WT-en) phma 22:38, 21 Jan 2004 (EST)

I added a consonant to the combining vowels, since without it they were attaching to the previous Roman letter or the parenthesis. They still look weird; in particular the short i, which should be to the left of t, is to its right. I don't know if it's my X server (XFree86 4.2.1), my fonts, or something else. If you have a proper Nagari setup, could you check? -(WT-en) phma 20:29, 25 Jan 2004 (EST)
 * Yes, that's weird. It's OK on Konqueror, but wrong on the Mozilla. But if I exchange the letters, then it is the opposite. :( Actually, I don't write much in Hindi with a computer, so I don't know what is the right way. I will check on http://hi.wikipedia.org/ (WT-en) Yann 15:45, 26 Jan 2004 (EST)
 * According to http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode4.0.0/ch09.pdf, the consonants and vowels are stored in phonetic order, so the way I typed it is correct. On mine the page looks right in Mozilla (1.3a), but wrong in Konqueror (3.0.99). So it's probably a bug in the Unicode rendering library that Konqi uses. What versions do you have? -(WT-en) phma 19:11, 26 Jan 2004 (EST)
 * Oops, I didn't notice that you switched them. The i should go after the t, but should show up to the left of the t; but on both Moz and Konq my computer shows the i to the right of the t when i is after t. So maybe it's a bug in my fonts, or in X. -(WT-en) phma 19:29, 26 Jan 2004 (EST)

This page is becoming quite long. Can it cut in two? (WT-en) Yann 16:24, 26 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * Most of our list of phrasebooks are pretty long. So, please don't. --(WT-en) Evan 16:35, 26 Jan 2004 (EST)

When entering the phrases, the words in parentheses should follow the pseudo-phoneticization guide as closely as practicable for Hindi ("kh", for example, is not the ach-Laut but an aspirated "k"). Before that should be the phrase in Nagari and Arabic script, if you can type them. If the Hindi phrase is different from the Urdu phrase, put them on separate lines with <br> between them. -(WT-en) phma 22:08, 26 Jan 2004 (EST)
 * Well this phoneticization system is Chinese for me. ;o) I will let somebody else write it. And although I didn't have any problem understand and be understood in Pakistan, I don't know Urdu. (WT-en) Yann 03:14, 27 Jan 2004 (EST)
 * Can you at least indicate the syllables and the stress? I know the rule for Classical Sanskrit, but don't know how it's changed since then. I did some numbers as an example. -(WT-en) phma 07:36, 27 Jan 2004 (EST)

If anybody is still following this article I am making it a project of mine to improve this phrase book. I added a clearer chart, and changed some things around. I would love suggestions and ideas, or disputes to my changes. I don't want to step on anyone's toes, I can always discuss proposed changes in the future if anyone feels cheated. There are quite a few things I would like to discuss/collaberate on, as well as ideas I have. Like can we just delete the good morning and other time elemental greetings? Just because there is some arcane Sanskrit word doesn't mean it needs to be here. The same goes with things like 'sorry', 'excuse me', 'thank you', etc. though shukriya is probably used more in Urdu than it or dhanyavaad is used in Hindi. And for polite usage, the English word or phrase is generally used instead. The KH, GH, f, z, also need to be added as does the candrabindu perhaps, though modern usage doesn't require it. The modifying diacritics could also go after the consonants. Also religious terms could be added, like mandir, masjid, gurudwara, etc. As could city names, and significant sites: taj mahal, red fort, etc; the Islamic and Western calender, holidays and festivals (e.g. Holi, Divali, Ramazan), et cetera ad infinituum! I just want to give a heads up, I believe there is much that needs to be done here! Let's make the phrasebook for the world's third largest language on par with its status!

On stress, Hindi is a very flat language, like Spanish without accents. There is no stress, as there are in Vedic hymns, etc. However, syllables could be noted especially when because of a suffix, or sometimes after 'ra' there is no inherent 'a'. Otherwise syllables are pretty much just counting vowels! eg. na1-ma1-ste1. I was thinking of adding IPA, but I don't know IPA well enough yet and therefore not confident enough with it to edit. i.e. I don't know whether to use a schwa, lambda or backwards epsilon character to represent the inherent 'a'. I could use help regarding this issue.

On seperating Hindi and Urdu. YES! We've probably all read the Hindi-Urdu FAQ, etc., and Bollywood itself is very mixed. In short, there is no such thing as "pure" Hindi, except maybe in the grade schools of Bihar! However; unlike Québécois and Français, we are talking about different scripts, different histories (not to imply France and Québec don't), and in the case of Urdu much more Turkish, Arabic, and Farsi elements, like the izaafat. And most importantly, religion. Though India has one of the largest Muslim communities in the world (3rd, 4th?), let's face it; Hindi is colored with Hinduism, and Urdu, post partition has become even more consciously Islamic. I would love to find a way to put them together, but I'm not sure the page is wide enough for most people to fit on their screens (esp. longer phrases): --Phrase | Transliteration | Devanagari | Nastaliq/Naskh | Pronunciation | IPA-- whether in a chart, or other formatting. And I'm not even getting into the variants each language has Persian/Devanagari, etc which could be rectified using the aforementioned 's, but still wouldn't simplify matters enough. The former reasons mentioned are why Urdu is often considered a seperate language by linguists on sociological grounds http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=hin. If anyone wishes to help me tackle the Urdu, an invaluable intro to nastaliq can be found at http://users.skynet.be/hugocoolens/newurdu/newurdu.html. As well as an urdu dictionary here: http://www.urduword.com. btw, among my minor corrections so far I corrected the fact that Arabic numerals actually do go left-right. It was an understandable mistake though for anyone not familiar with the quirks of Arabic.

I'm currently at the end of my second year of Hindi, and besides any help any of you can provide, I plan to talk to my teacher, classmates, and Indian friends for help. For the time being I will at least start wikifying the Urdu alphabet - though I hope it will be seperated. I use Mac X.4 and Safari browser. Everything looks fine to me. Sorry if anyone is having problems. If anyone would like links or good books/dictionaries suggestions, just ask. I always welcome suggestions beyond the ubiquitous Snell book myself! (WT-en) Khirad 17:13, 23 May 2005 (EDT)

 * I would also recommend splitting Hindi and Urdu into separate phrasebooks. If the experience with Malay and Indonesian is anything to go by, even though the languages are very similar, there are enough small differences to make a "shared" phrasebook quite difficult to compile and use — plus for Hindi/Urdu you also have the hassle of completely different scripts. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:45, 23 May 2005 (EDT)

 * Well, now that I've gone ahead and done it, I don't know how happy I'd be in seperating them! haha. There are its advantages of putting them together, but yes the different scripts were my main concern, and indeed can be a hassle. This is still very much under construction, which is of course obvious. I just mean to say I'll work on wikifying it later to conform more to standards. After looking at other phrasebooks I should shorten this alot as well. But I am in a quandry, for there are things which are unique to India, as there are anywhere, esp. non-occidental areas; and that I feel every traveller should know these things in regards of South Asia. Customs, potential western faux pas, etc. Many can go in general Indian and Pakistani articles, but some things should be included here as well. For instance, what to do when greeting someone. Though India is not only the home of Hinduism, but also the most densely populated, it also has significant religions minorities, whereas the most populous Muslim nation's minorities add up to only app. 10%. The great religious diversity of India adds also to its linguistic diversity and thus, greetings, etc. And on a humorous note, I'm not sure how important it is to be able to say "I don't eat pork" in India! (pork was the source of an uprising after all one of the only times Muslims and Hindus ever agreed on anything!), but I'll include it anyway as it isn't forbidden to Parsis or Sikhs/and to conform to standards. I also feel incredibly embarrased to have changed the format so drastically and opting for tables. I thought it looked much cleaner and is much easier to use with different scripts - and I believe, more user friendly as well. The other way looks primitive to me, but that's just my ever so humble opinion, no offence to anyone. Will I need to change this back? and if so I'm sorry. I've added perhaps too many indoabbr-esque footnotes! I added to my esteemed predecessor's notes. I wish I could link directly to wikipedia articles and avoid the long winded explanations - because on one hand, these things are significant, while OTOH unneedingly add to the length of the article. Anyways I've found there is a fine line between a bare-bones phrasebook and an all-out textbook on the language(s). I'll work on finding a happy medium and erasing superfluous material later. I guess my vision for an Hindi and/or Urdu phrasebook is different than the layout given, but hey, I'm being bold and plunging in. right?! The layout must be modified a little for any language I would think. But regardless, I'll fix stuff after I have completed adding stuff, promise. Other people shouldn't have to clean up my mess later! (WT-en) Khirad Jun 2005 (EDT)

It has been a while since I've touched this page, but I haven't given up trying to complete it. In any case, the page already takes up too much memory. Some primary things I think that contribute to it are introducing two writing systems, etc. It dawned on me that I never did the numbers table in Urdu, but unless anyone complains, this is perhaps for the best now, considering space. As much as I like the en face format of Hindi-Urdu, perhaps splitting up will have to be debated again in the future. As will what to keep and what to prune. I also need to figure out how to write a proper grammer section without going overboard, and choose only the essentials. (WT-en) Khirad 20:25, 7 Sep 2005 (EDT)

 * Feel free to prune information that you feel isn't necessary, but be aware that there has been some discussion about removing the warnings about page size, so don't let page size be too much of a concern. My personal opinion is that it is more valuable to have a complete (but well-organized) guide rather than a compact but incomplete guide. -- (WT-en) Wrh2 21:10, 7 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Separating Hindi and Devanagari?
The lengthy section on the intricacies of Devanagari is rather intimidating — and it could also be reused for other languages using the same script, eg. Nepali, Marathi etc. Would it make any sense to limit this to speaking Hindi, and shunt out the script stuff into a separate "Learning Devanagari script" article?

Note that the basic vowel/consonant stuff and the Devanagari phrases should of course stay in the phrasebook, because they're useful to point at even if you can't read the language. (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:33, 12 November 2006 (EST)
 * Good idea. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 09:55, 12 November 2006 (EST)

 * Done. I also tried to hack the phrasebook a bit so it's comprehensible even if you aren't fluent in Devanagari. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:23, 16 November 2006 (EST)

Copied from the India article
I just cleaned out a whole lot of stuff from India's "Talk" section as it was TMI and was breaking the flow. It may or may not be useful here. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 14:24, 20 November 2006 (EST) Hindi is spoken in many dialects. Dialects of Hindi Hindi has more than ten variations. Hindi spoken in Rajasthan is different from Hindi spoken in Bihar or Hindi of Himachal Pradesh. Sometimes the different variations of a language are considered as separate language with their own literature.

One of the most important dialects is Khariboli (also Khadiboli or Khari dialect), which is spoken in Western and Eastern Uttar Pradesh. Khariboli is the variation of Urdu/Hindi language that is used by the government and taught in schools. It was a rural language in its early days, but after 18th century, people started using it as the literary form of Urdu as its vocabulary contains a large amount of Persian and Arabic words. Almost all the significant modern Hindi literature has been produced in Khariboli.

Yet another important dialect is the Bihari Hindi spoken by the people of Bihar ,Jharkhand and some parts of Eastern UP like Balia.Lately it has become popular owing to the Politicians and Hindi movies.

Awadhi - Spoken predominantly in rural centers Central and parts of Eastern Uttar Pradesh. Urban centers speak Khadi Boli. Lucknow, Kanpur, Rae Bareli, Faizabad, Allahabad. However, as we move east of Lucknow, we begin to get a little mix of Bhojpuri as well both in words and accent. Tulsidas' Shri Raamcharit Manas is written in Awadhi. The dialect in Lagaan, Nadiya Ke Paar and songs in Omkara is are Awadhi.

Another dialect is Bambaiya Hindi(also Mumbaiyya )which is spoken primarily in Bombay (Mumbai). On the streets of Bombay, people from every part of India co-exist. Their inter-mingling has created a language that has Hindi/Urdu as a base, but includes words and pronunciations from other languages such as English, Marathi and Gujarati, as well as languages from South India.

A third important dialect is Brajbhasa, spoken in the region of Braj. Brajbhasa was the language of choice of the Bhakti movement, or the neo-Vaishnavite religions, the central deity of which was Krishna. Therefore, most of the literature in this language pertains to Krishna composed in medieval times.

Among the other variations of Hindi, we can inculde Kanauji, Bundeli, Bagheli, Chhattisgarhi (Lahariya or Khalwahi), Hariyanvi (Bangaru or Jatu), Bhaya, Chamari and Ghera Gowli.

Some of the weirdo translations
Someone has been using shuddh Hindi which will not get a foreigner anywhere in India. Someone translated bathroom into snaanagraha. Who, may I ask, refers to it as that!!???? Here are a few suggestions - (WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage 05:37, 23 February 2007 (EST)
 * Train (Relgaadi)
 * Car (Gaari, not Vaahan)
 * Plane (Hawaijahaz, not Viman)
 * Bathroom (Toilet, by far the most common term for it in Northern India)

I bet "vimaan" is more common than "hawaaii jahaaz".especially in other parts of indie, e.g. gujarat, maharashtra, bengal, etc. as it is the same word for aeroplane in the respective languages.

 * First of all, try to understand one thing. For example in West Bengal, Hindi is no use in the smaller towns. The only place where people understand Hindi somewhat is Kolkata, where anyway it would be more useful to speak English. The number of people who can read and write English is far greater than the number who can read and write Hindi, as Devanagari is different from the Bengali script.

 * The fact is that the Govt of India tries to promote all this Hindi is the lingua franca of India rubbish. The fact is, that the lingua franca in an Indian city/town is usually the state language, and NOT Hindi (exception: Mumbai). For example, a Konkani speaking Mangalorean living in Bangalore, Karnataka will probably understand Kannada, and not Hindi.

 * So this Hindi phrasebook is basically for travelling around the Hindi-speaking belt.

And no-one in Delhi or MP or UP will call an aeroplane/airplane a 'vimaan'

User:(WT-en) Upamanyuwikivoyage

IAST to Hunterian transliteration style
After some reflection and discussion with other Voyagers, looking at Russian phrasebook (the only star phrasebook) as inspiration and WV:the traveller comes first principle, I believe the transliteration should favour convenience and ease of learning over accuracy. This means all of the diacritics will go and either be replaced with digraphs (ī becomes ee for instance) or just removed (ñ, ṅ and ṇ become n).

Anyway, nearly all Hindi words when written in English in India on billboards and things don't have the dots and lines around the letters. A corner shop owned by Sita/Seeta or Raj/Raaj is just called that, not Sīta or Rāj.

The Devanagari will still be 100% accurate. Any keen traveller and language learner of Northern India will learn the script and thereby learn how to pronounce Hindi words accurately. But for the traveller who is not spending a lot of time in India and just wants to learn the basics quickly, the pseudo-transliteration will cater to them. The IAST helps nobody except for academics. And Wikitravel is not Wikipedia. :) DaGizza (talk) 00:42, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually many of the "n" sounds in many modern Hindi dialects have been merged together. So there is no difference between many of the "n"'s from a practical point of view. They were distinct in Sanskrit but this ain't a Sanskrit phrasebook. Also changing the transliteration of ś and ṣ to "sh" will be very helpful. These sounds are close to the "sh" in shoe and shoulder. Writing them as an "s" with a line or dot might make the reader pronounce them like an English "s" which is wrong (well, an English speaker can do better). But if anyone has any objections please say so. I think these changes reflect the goals of Wikitravel and will bring the phrasebook one step closer to star status. DaGizza (talk) 00:47, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hindi phrasebook


text:
Talk:Hiraizumi

Motsuji YH pricing
According to Motsuji YH's official page (in English and Japanese), the prices listed on Wikivoyage are still correct. The tourist info lady probably tried to book you into a private room, which is from 4,410 yen...? I'll update the entry. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:10, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Hiraizumi


text:
Talk:Hiraodai karst plateau

Please read the Project:What is an article guideline before adding to this article. I think this information should be incorporated into Kitakyushu and have recommended this article for deletion. -- (WT-en) Huttite 07:44, 27 Jul 2005 (EDT)

title: Talk:Hiraodai karst plateau


text:
Talk:Hirosaki

Header Picture
The picture in the upper right displays a Nebuta float from Aomori City, which is far different than those used in Hirosaki.

title: Talk:Hirosaki


text:
Talk:Hiroshima

The section below isn't really relevant to Wikivoyage, but (surprisingly) it doesn't seem to be copyvio'd either, so I'll leave it here for data mining. (WT-en) Jpatokal 03:09, 12 April 2006 (EDT)

Doing Business in Hiroshima
Hiroshima is the center of industry for the Chugoku-Shikoku region, and is by and large centered along the coastal areas. The Chugoku area has a GDP of approximately (US$)270 billion, making it economically larger than many countries including Switzerland, Belgium, Sweden and Austria. Its largest single industry is the manufacturing industry with core industries being the production of cars (Mazda), car parts, and shipbuilding. General machinery and equipment also account for a large portion of exports. Because these industries require research and design capapilities, it has also had the offshoot that Hiroshima has many innovative companies actively engaged in new growth fields (for example, Hiroshima Vehicle Engineering Company [HIVEC] http://www.hivec.com) Many of these companies hold the top market shares in Japan and the world, or are alone in their particular field. Tertiary industries in the wholesale and retail areas are also very developed.

Another result of the concentration of industry is an accumulation of skilled personnel and fundamental technologies. This is considered by business to be a major reson for location in Hiroshima. Business setup costs are also much lower than other large cities in the country and there is a comprehensive system of tax breaks, etc on offer for businesses which locate in Hiroshima. This is especially true of two projects: the Hiroshima Station Urban Development District and the Seifu Shinto (http://www.seifu-shinto.jp/index_f.html) area which offer capital installments(upto 500 million yen over 5 years), tax breaks and employee subsidies.

Seifu Shinto which translates as West wind, New town is the largest construction project in the region and is an attempt to build "a city within a city." It is attempting to design from the ground up a place to work, play, relax and live.

Hiroshima has long been a port city and Hiroshima port or Hiroshima International Airport can be used for the transportation of goods.

As for workers, the lifestyle is considered to be good (if a little lacking in nightlife) and Hiroshima recently made it onto Lonely Planet's list of the top cities in the world. As a city it is compact enough to travel almost anywhere by bicycle (from personal experience this is usually the quickest method also) and commuting times rank amongst the shortest in Japan. It is also consistently more reasonable than other large cities in Japan such as Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto or Fukuoka.

Information on all these matters can be recieved from Hiroshimas' Economic Affairs Bureau (http://www.business.econ.city.hiroshima.jp 082-504-2241) and is available in either English (James Clarke) or Japanese (Yamamoto-san)

Concerns
The "Stay Safe" portion of the Hiroshima entry smells of BS. I live in Japan, very near to Hiroshima, and I have never had a problem dancing after 1 AM in any part of the city. The parts that begin with "recently" are very suspect, and I can't help but feel this is very misleading, very old information. Plus there's no sources referenced. Just saying, maybe it should be ammended/removed. The "Cope" section is a much more accurate description of Hiroshima. -Darrell (sorry, not a member, just a concerned reader)

 * There are no "members" here, anybody -- including you -- can plunge forward and fix it up! (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:57, 6 October 2006 (EDT)

"Cope" section -- "Good luck coming up with a snappy answer, but if their teacher is around, you can try asking them back whether Japan would have used the bomb if they had come up with it first." I'm not an extreme anti-nuclear bomb activist by any means, but that just sounds kind of harsh. Not all westerners think atomic bombs are a great idea, y'know. *Eyeroll*

 * Well, that's kind of the point. Do you think Japan would have hesitated to use the bomb if they had gotten it first? If no, then how can they blame others for beating them to the punch? (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:32, 19 November 2007 (EST)

 * You know, I really don't understand why that comment keeps on deleted... (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:17, 8 April 2008 (EDT)

 * Me neither. I support keeping it! (WT-en) Texugo 07:33, 8 April 2008 (EDT)

I've deleted that bit because of three reasons.
 * Firstly this is a travel guide, the role of which is not to get into the rights and wrongs of a controversial historical event. For the sake of neutrality this article should be free of language which "blames" the US and it should equally be free of language which "defends" the US.
 * Secondly, Wikivoyage's target audience is not limited to "westerners" but people of all nationalities, religions and political beliefs, so should be written in a way which is as non-partisan as possible.
 * Thirdly, I don't think encouraging travellers to make a logically fallacious tu quoque argument against locals about a politically sensitive topic is responsible. (WT-en) Dreamdrifter 09:16, 28 May 2008 (EDT)

 * Let's start with a fact here: it's not the traveller who's starting this "politically sensitive topic", it's the kids doing their school projects. Of course they're expecting the answer "bombs are bhaaaaaaaaad", but all I'm doing is suggesting asking a question back and letting them do some thinking, and I'm pretty amazed that you're managing to read blame, defense, partisan beliefs and logical fallacies into a question!  (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:41, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

I've reinstated it because this discussion is ongoing and I see no reason why a newcomer to the discussion should delete it without a consensus being reached. I'll have more to say about it on the morrow. (WT-en) Texugo 09:57, 1 June 2008 (EDT)

Sorry but that section is just plain absurd.
 * 1) Project:Be_fair states, about political issues: "The best way out is to stick to the bare minimum of facts necessary, presented as neutrally as possible, while keeping a firm focus on the traveller's interests". I do not agree that suggesting that a traveller asks the local whether or not Japan would have used the bomb if she got it first is "neutral".
 * 2) I disagree with the sentence "you're virtually guaranteed to be accosted by kids working on school projects, asking you (in halting English) where you're from, what your name is and whether you think nuclear bombs are a good thing" on the basis of the fact that none of those things have happened to either me or anyone I know who have visited.
 * 3) "Well, that's kind of the point. Do you think Japan would have hesitated to use the bomb if they had gotten it first? If no, then how can they blame others for beating them to the punch?". OK, in response to this:
 * Could you please explain where you got the "blame" thing from?
 * More importantly, the logic itself is flawed. If Japan HAD 1) developed the bomb first and 2) used it on San Francisco or something, then would the argument that "if America got it first, they would have used it" have any bearing upon the rights and wrongs of this bombing? (WT-en) Phonemonkey 10:13, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

I would like to see the comment left out or revised. It's been edited out by a lot of people over a lot of time - I'd estimate close to half of the edits to this article over the last year have been people deleting it and restoring it.

The original author's knowledge of Japanese history and culture are beyond reproach, as are his good intentions. But as someone who visited Hiroshima and then lived there for more than a year, the comment doesn't agree with my experience. (I wasn't at the Peace Park every day, of course.) My main concern is that nearly every American visitor, and many Westerners in general, approach Hiroshima and the Peace Park with overwhelming trepidation, concerned that they're going to be attacked over and over again for being from the same country as the people who dropped the bomb. And the museums in the Peace Park do an incredible job of navigating that difficult tone, providing depth of education about the city and the effects of the bomb without ever getting into blame over who was guilty and innocent in the war. (Hiroshima residents in general - and the hibakusha I met - also never delved into blame.) I think we're doing the museums - and travelers themselves - a disservice by prepping visitors to be ready for ideological combat with Japanese schoolteachers and their kawaii minions. Personally, if I thought that's what I would be walking into, I'd have settled for reading John Hersey and gone somewhere else.

If schoolkids really are a daily menace, we could work toward an edit that mentions their presence and suggests avoiding them. Otherwise, I don't think keeping the comment is worth the reaction it's causing in a lot of readers / editors. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 18:48, 5 June 2008 (EDT)

 * I'll present two views.

 * Personally, I'm willing to bow on majority opinion on this.

 * In general, though, I'm not entirely happy with taking stuff out just because it's controversial. For the particular case of Hiroshima, IMHO the traveller should know that eg. the exhibits at the museum have been the subject of much debate (for a long time they didn't say a word about why the bombs were dropped) and that to this day they're not allowing the monument to the 45,000 killed Korean slave laborers into the Park. (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:02, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

 * OK, thanks Jpatokal. Just a few points:
 * In a world in which there is no consensus on why the bomb was dropped the museum is doing the prudent thing in refraining from presenting ANY particular political point of view. This naturally has the potential to upset some people from both sides of the debate - both those who would like America's responsibility pursued as well as those who seek to absolve America of blame - as they feel that their point of view is ignored - and the key thing is whether this is an issue worthy of inclusion on Wikivoyage in light of Project:Be_fair.
 * The memorial to the Korean victims was moved into the park 9 years ago. Also isn't 45,000 the estimated number of Korean hibakusha? It's not the same thing as the estimated number of Koreans who were actually killed by the bomb. (WT-en) Phonemonkey 12:37, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

 * I think we can all agree that the bomb was dropped because World War II was going on...

 * As for the second point, sorry, I've got my memorials mixed up. The Korean monument was moved in 1999 (after 50 years...), but the Chinese memorial is still outside the park. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:36, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

 * I've edited the article to try to draw all of this together - please have a look and revise if necessary. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 18:03, 7 June 2008 (EDT)

 * I've searched for references to this Chinese memorial and I couldn't find any - I was just wondering if there's been a confusion? In the grounds of Hiroshima castle there is a monument to soldiers, civilians and students who were mobilized to work for the chugoku military district. Could this be the source of the confusion? Please correct me if I am wrong! (WT-en) Phonemonkey 08:54, 8 June 2008 (EDT)

 * Interesting. Got a link?  (日本語OK.) (WT-en) Jpatokal 12:06, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

 * Here is a comprehensive list in Japanese of the 100+ memorials scattered throughout the city. Another site here has a list of war relics within the grounds of the castle. (WT-en) Phonemonkey 17:48, 9 June 2008 (EDT)

 * Interesting indeed -- I'll bet that's the source of the confusion. Quite the little maboroshi... (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:52, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

A little late to be joining the debate, but for what it's worth I visited the Peace Memorial Park this summer. Yes, there were a number of groups of schoolchildren, all from a local school. They were keen to try out their English but questions were very simple - where are you from, favourite colour/sport/food - nothing about the bomb. They were a delight to talk to, they obviously got a lot out of it, and any visitor should regard it as a part of the visit. Indeed I think it is very discourteous to go out of your way to avoid them. But whatever else you do, or do not do, you must visit the museum. (Sorry, I'm not a registered user, so no id) Ken, England

Stay safe sources
This is my first contribution to this page so I hope it is going to end up in the right place - apologies in advance if it ends up somewhere it shouldn't!

I just wanted to address some of the concerns raised above about additions recently made to the "Stay Safe" section. While the situation is perhaps more complicated than stated, it is a fairly accurate summary.

Some references:

http://www.gethiroshima.com/jp/gethiroshima/Hype/2006/10/29/andthatsofficial

http://www.gethiroshima.com/en/gethiroshima/Hype/2006/06/06/barcostatement

http://www.gethiroshima.com/en/gethiroshima/Hype/2006/07/12/barcoraid_videos

http://www.gethiroshima.com/en/gethiroshima/Hype/2006/09/09/coverraid

More discussion can be found at http://gethiroshima.blogspot.com

Hope this is useful.

Paul Walsh

Unused hotel listings
I wrote these and verified the information, but decided not to use them as the article filled up and more compelling options were available. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 23:46, 28 April 2009 (EDT)

 *  Similar to the other two, but a bit cheaper for being a bit out of the way, tucked into a concrete jungle near JR Hiroshima Station — hang a left out of the south exit and follow the winding road.

 *  About 7 minutes from JR Hiroshima Station. Has a shaky claim to the title of "ryokan", but it's cheap.

 *  Plain but serviceable ryokan with Japanese and Western-style rooms.

 *  An affordable business hotel off Heiwa Odori. Also has a small shuttle from JR Hiroshima Station. There are three Toyoko Inns in Hiroshima, but this one is the most centrally located.

Closed?
An anonymous user says wasn't there — I've asked a friend to check. The DeoDeo is definitely still there and open. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 08:56, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

"A tip for souvenir hunters on a tight budget: check out the fourth floor of the DeoDeo just off Hon-dori, next to the old Hiroshima Mitsui Bank building. There is a 100 yen shop with an improbably excellent selection of distinctively Japanese souvenirs: pottery, sake sets, art, statuettes, signs and cheap ukiyo-e. It's on the left side of the store. Remember, nobody at home knows you only paid 100 yen for it!"

Deo Deo is an electronics shop. On the fourth floor they sell lights and air conditioners. There is nothing in the whole building with pottery etc. I wasted an hour or two looking and consequently am very annoyed about that, and by my edits being reversed by some American guy who doesn't even live there any more. Thank you.

Souvenirs
I made an edit about the fact that it is almost impossible to find any souvenirs, which was reversed by some American. So I will write it here. People go to Hiroshima because of the bomb. I bet if you asked tourists for 99% of them that would be the reason. The only souvenirs they have is alot of stuff relating to the baseball team and a few T-shirts and postcards with their rebranding exercise of Hiroshima being a "Peace City". This is completely inadequate and very disappointing considering the importance of the city as a tourist destination. There are several souvenirs they could produce which related to the bomb attack such as plates, snow domes, fridge magnets, arts and crafts. I think tourists should be warned of this - otherwise it comes as an unpleasant surprise and detracts from the experience. Thank you. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 210.196.234.227 (talk • contribs)

 * Let me get this straight -- you were expecting bomb attack snow domes? As in, say, a little A-Bomb Dome-in-a-dome with black rain and ashes falling onto it when you shake it?  That's in such incredibly bad taste that I'd... probably buy one . (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:51, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

Star nomination
Hereby submitted. It has two city maps and a transit map; the atomic bomb sites are thoroughly covered, including a few that no other guidebook has picked up, but it also has enough for several days in the city, and even things to do with kids in tow. This would be our first Japan star and second for Asia. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 09:06, 27 July 2009 (EDT)

 * Support Yay! more non US stars! Excellent lively writing and an amazing history section! I'd like to see more of listings spelled out in Japanese though, I remember from my first visits to Japan, that I always ended up showing the Kanji from Lonely Planet when asking for directions. Though I know it breaks the system, so maybe that's an open call. As for the usual nitpicks; open during school hours - may not be very telling for the average tourister, Tachikoma's hours just reads F-W? --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 09:49, 27 July 2009 (EDT)
 * I don't think it should be an open call; as you stated, it's extremely helpful. I think it'd be a good policy to list all attractions in their native script, if they do not use the English alphabet (or a mutually comprehensible one). I imagine it would help to list names in Arabic, Chinese, Russian, etc. on their respective pages. At any rate, I've added the Japanese script to all of the "See" listings outside of Peace Park.
 * I haven't fully reviewed the page, but I did notice the Flame of Peace is missing from the map (and perhaps the park description). It's located on the opposite side of the pond as the Cenotaph, and the flame is to burn until all nuclear weapons in the world have been destroyed. It's an interesting part of the park, and a good conversation piece. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 23:15, 30 July 2009 (EDT)

 * Yeah, that's a good idea. (And thanks, Chubby, for doing 'See'!) To clarify, though, are you saying that every 'See' listing should have kanji, or every listing in the article (hotels, bars, etc)? The flame of peace is mentioned in the article, but the phrasing of the location is muddled, so I'll clarify that and add it to the Peace Park map. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 23:41, 30 July 2009 (EDT)

 * For me, I think just "See" is enough for foreign scripts. Of course, I can't speak for Stefan. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 00:02, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

 * Support Extremely well-written article. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 04:50, 31 July 2009 (EDT)

 * Support. It's always a good sign when an article really makes you want to visit the destination it speaks of. It's incredibly well-written and all the listings look good. There's one thing though - I'd like to see a little more correlation between the tram map and the regular one - nothing big, I want to see the tram map stay (it's very useful), I'd just like to see the stations marked on the regular map so I can tell exactly where the tram goes. Other than that, I have no qualms and it's a fantastic article. (WT-en) PerryPlanet Talk 14:59, 1 August 2009 (EDT)

 * The tram stations are so close to each other — only a block or two apart in the city center — that the map wouldn't be able to fit all of the names. Symbols might be possible, although they'd be a tight fit. Would drawing the tram lines on the streets work? (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 19:53, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

 * The tram line with symbols would be good. Maybe just adding the names of the most prominent stops would be suitable. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 20:21, 4 August 2009 (EDT)

 * Last call for this one — tram lines & stations have been added to the map, and a long distance call placed to Tachikoma for hours. Any other comments? (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 16:24, 16 August 2009 (EDT)

 * Almost support. My say on this has already expired (I've been preoccupied with D.C.), so you can go ahead and add the star without addressing my concerns. That said, I only have one—shouldn't the phone numbers all have the country code included "+81"? Is there a reason not to do this? It would take me about 30 seconds to fix this, so just say the word. Aside from that, I have two non-crucial map suggestions: 1) change the grey background to the light grey color—I think this increases readability marginally; 2) increase the text size of the main road names just a little bit. Quibbles aside, this is a fantastic article, and will be a great model for how to do a large-city right. It's also, surprisingly, our second Asian star, the only one since Singapore (which was more than three years ago). Congratulations on a job well done! --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:33, 16 August 2009 (EDT)

 * No, I don't have any feelings about the phone numbers — the word is said, please format as appropriate. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 19:21, 16 August 2009 (EDT)

 * Done. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:12, 16 August 2009 (EDT)

Peace Bell
I removed the part about striking the bell like an atomic bomb. This is obviously a joke as the PEACE bell is not supposed to represent the a-bomb and there is actually a sign asking to ring the bell carefully and gently.

 * I believe you have misinterpreted the previous writing. It says only that the log hits an atomic symbol (cf. wikipedia), not that you're supposed to hit the bell hard.  -- (WT-en) D. Guillaime 16:09, 9 April 2010 (EDT)

Bar Tokinoka?
I was at this bar called Tokinoka. It was like a 10min walk to the North from the Oriental Hotel.

The drinks were amazing, the bar really stylish&cool and the service was extraordinary good - even for Japan (though they barely spoke any English). The prices were pretty cheap, all cocktails 700 yen. Having spent my night before in Tokyo, that was really cheap.

The place was packed with locals and me and my friend were the only non-Japanese. I wanted to add the place to the list, but I can't find any website (it's probably only in Japanese I don't know how to write Tokinoka in Japanese) and I didn't write down the address (I took a photo with my iphone but it hadn't saved the gps location...).

Does anybody know the address or details? (WT-en) Doopie 19:31, 9 April 2010 (EDT)

 * Does it look like this location ? If so, the address is 1-34 Horakawa-cho, Naka-ku, and the name is written 時の香.  (Thank you, Google Maps.)
 * We don't have a listing for the Oriental Hotel either, so if you liked your stay, please consider adding it as well! -- (WT-en) D. Guillaime 21:13, 9 April 2010 (EDT)

Overnight by train with rest stop
Can this subsection of "Get in" be deleted? It contains no valuable information and is in fact not a way to get to Hiroshima "overnight" anymore than just staying in Tokyo and traveling the full way the next morning. Essentially, all it says is that the closer you are to Hiroshima without being IN Hiroshima on the previous night, the closer you'll be to Hiroshima on the following day in order to actually GO there. Isn't this a universal truth from Captain Obvious? ChubbyWimbus (talk) 02:46, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Yes, I agree. Once you've made it to Himeji, you might as well complete the trip, as Hiroshima is only about an hour further. It's also kind of nonsensical because there are so many more hotels in Hiroshima than Himeji -- you're likely to pay more if you insist on staying in Himeji. Gorilla Jones (talk) 11:54, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Closures, perhaps temporary
Closed during reconstruction on the shinkansen side of the station. Not sure if/when it will re-open.

I didn't go up there to be certain, but didn't see the sign on the building, so I think this is closed.

Gorilla Jones (talk) 12:10, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Climate
The section about climate says winter days are "rarely cold enough to keep you indoors". For me, staying indoors because of moderate cold is a strange idea (as a child I was regularly at winter camps at -25°C, for several days with no indoors refuge). I think one should clarify who might be kept indoors (or might expect being kept indoors) by the temperatures in Hiroshima. The locals? Tourists from some specific climates? --LPfi (talk) 08:49, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

Validity of "Visit Hiroshima Tourist Pass"
I am not sure to understand the sentence The tourist pass is available only on the day or on the next day when you request the pass. Does the author mean that the pass is always valid immediately after purchase (=the start period cannot be a later date)? Website is here. — Fabimaru (talk) 20:29, 5 April 2018 (UTC)

Alternative banner for this article?
I have previously created an alternative banner for this article (which was initially created for the parallel article at the Hebrew Wikivoyage, but I decided to suggest we'll use it here at the English Wikivoyage article as well). Which banner do you prefer that we'll use on the top of this article? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 13:31, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Inclined to prefer the more unique current banner. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 13:49, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The existing banner is unique, and has a strong connection to the city, but I think that would be lost on readers who haven't already been to Hiroshima. I prefer the new banner. Ground Zero (talk) 17:52, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I haven't been to the city, but I definitely favor the current banner for the reasons given above and because it's so colorful and pretty. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:23, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, the connection of origami cranes to the city is explained in the article, though I think the word "lerennially" is a typo and should be corrected accordingly. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:25, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * A pagebanner caption could be useful for those wondering about the banner before having read about the origami cranes. –LPfi (talk) 15:53, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I prefer the current banner. Origami is more interesting and beautiful than a city skyline. Gizza ( roam ) 02:32, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Current banner I like banners that are unique and distinct while still representing the city, and the cranes do this extremely well for Hiroshima. People from all over the world make and send cranes to Hiroshima every year for their peace ceremony in August. I'm sure some people don't know about Sadako or the cranes, but the same can be said for the Atomic Bomb Dome. The bombing is obviously known worldwide, but I'd argue that there are no sites in Hiroshima that are widely recognized outside of Japan, so I don't think that's a good measure for banners. I don't think the banner needs to be the most famous/iconic place or thing in a city. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 11:45, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Current banner but the new one is good. I have been to Hiroshima and remember both the view of the Dome and the Origami Cranes. AlasdairW (talk) 21:57, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Costco
Why is Costco listed here? Is there something unuque about the Hiroshima Costco? In many countries one has to be a "member" of Costco to shop there. That really doesn't seem to be suitable for a travel guide.Ground Zero (talk) 23:27, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

 * Costco has One-day Invitation Pass for non-members, at least in Japan. You may buy it at around \500 on auction sites or discount ticket shops.--Hnishy63 (talk) 03:31, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hiroshima


text:
Talk:Hispaniola

Disambiguation
I converted this page from an empty region template to a disambiguation page on the basis that it contains only two entities (too few to justify a separate region) and people will look to either the Haiti or the Dominican Republic articles for information, thus any information in this article would be redundant. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 15:06, 12 March 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Hispaniola


text:
Talk:Hissar

Name of place, outline?
Hissarya says its the name of this place, not Hissar or is it just a nickname or something? There is no city-outline either. (WT-en) Cleaner 09:55, 21 October 2009 (EDT)
 * I interpret the above as asking whether Hisarya belongs on this disambiguation page. In case someone has the same question: the name is derived from the same Arabic word, just with a Bulgarian definitive suffix - "the Hissar" (similar to "the Hague"). It's sometimes written without the suffix, and spelled with a double S to reflect the pronunciation.--Daggerstab (talk) 09:46, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hissar


text:
Talk:Historic High Country

Subregions
This appears to be a bit of a mess. With only twelve city articles falling under this region, there is not a compelling reason to break this region into subregions. Even if there were, we almost certainly don't want a page for each individual county. I propose that we merge the content (and photos!) from the existing county articles back into this article and redirect them to here:

 * Dawson County (Georgia)
 * Lumpkin County (Georgia)
 * Rabun County (Georgia)
 * Union County (Georgia)
 * White County (Georgia)
 * Cherokee County (Georgia)

--(WT-en) Peter Talk 21:08, 18 November 2009 (EST)

 * I disagree. With 14 cities noted and growth potential, the city list is already too long for my liking. There is a need for sub-regions here, even if there are only two or three. Since there already is a page for each of the above counties it would make sense to use the counties to mbe the centres of some regional groupings. In some cases attractions are collecting on those county article because they don't fit into the cities. I would suggest that each county be listed as a region and the city list culled to be the county seats. I have already noticed that one listing talks of 3 different sleep destinations in a city city listing, suggesting 3 separate article in that county alone. - (WT-en) Huttite 01:32, 21 November 2009 (EST)

 * There is very little content for this region as it stands, and I don't think our guide will benefit from spreading the slim content even more thinly than it is already. Why don't we try to develop this article first? It's certainly not bursting at the seams with information. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 03:53, 21 November 2009 (EST)

I didn't realize that there was on going discussion on the subregions topic, I probably should have checked the discussion page before adding all the counties. I've only been on wikivoyage for less than a week so I guess I'm learning by doing. I don't really understand what the subregions section is for. My reasons for adding that long list of counties were: I'm a college student who is out for winter break and working on wikivoyage and wikipedia are my hobbies. I'm willing and ready to work on this region I just need to know in what direction things should go. (WT-en) McBrayn 00:10, 11 December 2009 (EST)
 * I wanted a quick and easy way to see which counties in the historic high country region had pages
 * A list of links makes it easy to review what type of content each pages has and which ones need to be developed.
 * To find out which counties don't have pages but should.

Would there be any objection to merging the sub region articles back into a single region? Schwaltz (talk) 02:42, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * There are at least eighteen cities with articles within this region; I have to agree with Peter that it seems like some sort of subdivision is necessary. It doesn't have to be the current scheme, however.  Powers (talk) 16:12, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I think I am going see how much info I can place on the main page without overloading it and then look into addressing anything that has been left out. If anyone has an objection to this strategy or another idea, let me know.  Schwaltz (talk) 17:06, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Historic High Country


text:
Talk:Hitchhiking around the world

Discussion
Sorry to tell, but WikiTravel is rather not publishing personal stories or comments, please take a look at Goals and non-goals. That's how WikiTravel works... -- (WT-en) JanSlupski 07:26, 8 Feb 2005 (EST)

If you finally decide to plunge forward and create around the World journey article according to Goals and non-goals (and Manual of style), consider to linking it from List of itineraries instead of Main Page. Let somebody else decide if the article should be exposed on front page. -- (WT-en) JanSlupski 07:43, 8 Feb 2005 (EST)

Vfd Discussion

 * Hitchhiking around the World. Personal, not-goal. -- (WT-en) JanSlupski 07:51, 8 Feb 2005 (EST)
 * Delete. -- 193.24.32.39 08:08, 8 Feb 2005 (EST)
 * No - rewrite the article to discuss the concept of hitchhiking around the world - how far you can get etc. -- (WT-en) Huttite 04:12, 11 Feb 2005 (EST)
 * Rewrite. (WT-en) Guaka 20:10, 7 May 2005 (EDT)
 * Rewrite -- would be a fascinating topic to read, if we can find contributors who've actually done it and can add useful commentary. The number of people with the balls and endurance to acutally "hitchhike around the world" are few indeed. (WT-en) SONORAMA 09:45, 16 September 2007 (EDT)

Merge it?
Round the world overland is another fairly short article. Methinks material here should be moved there. (WT-en) Pashley 06:30, 28 May 2006 (EDT)
 * Agreed. - (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 06:33, 28 May 2006 (EDT)
 * Agreed. Either make hitchhiking a subsection of that page, or make "around the world" a subsection of Tips for hitchhiking. -- (WT-en) Padraic 11:18, 16 February 2007 (EST)
 * Don't agree. Hitchhiking around the world is a freeform adventure quite different from other means of overland travel, such as luxury trains or tours with a set schedule.  Both modes of transportation definetly merit their own article.  Right now, both articles are woefully inadequate.  I agree with Padraic that "round the world hitchkiking" could be made a subsection on the main hitchhking article for the time being.  Hopefully someone with actual experience hitchhiking or overland travelling make their contributions in the near future.
 * When we already have Tips for hitchhiking, I wonder if this article should be merged.(WT-en) Jusjih 11:41, 28 January 2011 (EST)

Do we need this article?
I realize this has been discussed in the past, but I want to bring it up again. It seems to me that most of the information in this article would be appropriate at Hitchhiking, and the last paragraph would fit well at Around the world overland. Is it useful to keep this as a separate article, or should we move the content to those two? —Granger (talk · contribs) 12:06, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

 * Since the scope of Hitchhiking is obviously global, I don't understand why this article is needed and would support a merge, however it is best to do it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:14, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

 * Done. —Granger (talk · contribs) 01:09, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hitchhiking around the world


text:
Talk:Hitchhiking boats

I suspect "Atlantic Race Crossing" is actually supposed to be Atlantic Ralley for Cruisers, commonly called ARC which is by far the largest event for sailing across the Atlantic with other yachts. I am not aware of anything called Atlantic Race Crossing, but I did not make this edit just in case such a thing does exist that I was unaware of.

Questions
(WT-en) Hypatia 08:17, 7 October 2006 (EDT)
 * 1) Should the title be Hitchhiking by boat or Hitchhiking on boats rather than Hitchhiking boats?
 * 2) Could someone please write a paragraph long introduction summarising the article's intent.

Merge?
Should this be merged into Cruising on small craft? Pashley (talk) 21:18, 16 November 2012 (UTC)
 * No.
 * Dissimilar perspectives and motivations. --W. Franke-mailtalk 12:03, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Import of material from Wikitravel
As well as re-organising and copy editing this article this afternoon, I have imported a paragraph about the "Pacific Crossing" from Wikitravel.org that was made by their User:Hitchsailing (Glenda Reed) who made the relevant edit in this diff:
 * wikitravel.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Hitchhiking_boats&diff=2068806&oldid=1919048

--W. Franke-mailtalk 12:30, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hitchhiking boats


text:
Talk:Hitchhiking in Europe

 * Hitchhiking in Europe. Merge into Tips for hitchhiking and misc. Europe country articles not yet complete (chip in!), but VfD'ing this to indicate that it will go bye-bye soon. (WT-en) Jpatokal 14:37, 19 Dec 2005 (EST)
 * I started it since I think the hitchhiking article was becoming to big. But maybe it doesn't matter. There is now a Wiki for hitchhikers (without constant spam this time...). I'll just rewrite the stuff that's here and then you pro-deletion people can go ahead! ;) (WT-en) Guaka 17:07, 19 Dec 2005 (EST)
 * I started the Hitchhiking phrasebook, and some people added stuff here. But I think it might be better to have the hitchhiking phrasebook on a Hitchhiking Wiki. Problem is license here, of course. But better move now before many more languages are added. Also, we can leave the ones that aren't yet on the hh-wiki. (WT-en) Guaka 09:28, 20 Dec 2005 (EST)

See also Talk:Tips for hitchhiking. (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:20, 21 Dec 2005 (EST)

title: Talk:Hitchhiking in Europe