text:
Talk:Puerto Escondido

I am attempting to obtain consensus for including vacation rentals in the sleep section of the Puerto Escondido page. I added our listing to WikiTravel in February 2007 and it remained there, without incident for almost 2 years until it was removed in December 2009. I was unaware of its removal until March of 2011 and assumed a competitor had removed the listing so I added it back only to find it immediately removed. I was unaware at the time of a wikivoyage policy regarding vacation rental listings. After review, I feel that our listing does not violate the terms and would like to re-include the listing on the page according to the conditions set forth on the policy page. "exception to this rule is for locations where rental properties are a common form of travel accommodation" Rental agency listings must be placed into a separate sub-section of the article's "Sleep" section. Agency listings must include a local address with a phone number that specifies the physical address at the destination Apartments or cabins must be available for rentals of one week or less
 * The listing appears to meet the criteria found on the policy page:
 * I have added the listing back to the page and followed this directive:
 * Our physical and mail address, phone and email address is displayed and in compliance with:
 * Our listings are available for less than a week up to long term multi year availability.

Rentals in Puerto Escondido are a common, if not primary, form of accommodation and vacationers enjoy the amenities and privacy that come with a rental such as a private kitchen, swimming pool, personal chef, etc.,. We do not only offer small apartments but properties that accommodate up to 25 guests. Our listing adds value for visitors considering this destination for travel.

 * I think the listing is fine, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 17:19, 1 May 2011 (EDT)

 * This recent edit seems exceedingly spammy to me - I'd suggest that if further similar edits occur that this real estate company's listing be removed. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 19:21, 9 May 2011 (EDT)

 * An example of something exceedingly spammy is Agama Yoga Mexico. They are not even located in Puerto Escondido. They are in Mazunte which has it's own wiki travel page. And if you look at that page, THEN you get an idea of something that is "exceedingly spammy." Also, check the history for Puerto Escondido Oasis on this page. The link was there for a long time. Why did it all of a sudden get removed? There seems to be no consistency regarding what should get a link and what should not. Why is there a link to Odyboards and Guadua? Our site has been built not only for rentals and sales but also to be a useful resource for visitors which, unlike most other websites, is updated and kept current when restaurants move or go out of business. For example, we host a page for the restaurant Pascale's as well as a Surf instructor who has a surf school. There's more to do than what is in the To Do section - such as fishing - for which we also host a page for the top rated local fisherman. All of these resources would be useful and valuable additions to this page. I'd suggest that you think more carefully about your reasoning, do your homework a little more thoroughly and develop a sense of consistency before acting so hastily. —The preceding comment was added by 75.99.230.10 (talk • contribs)

 * The Agama link has been removed. To your point about "consistency", whenever you edit a page the final bullet point above the submit button reads as follows: "Wikivoyage has strong guidelines on links to external web sites. Links to booking engines, hotel and restaurant aggregator sites, or other third-party sites will be deleted."  You may also want to have a look at Project:Don't tout which stresses "Similarly, don't add more than one link to a place, neither on one page nor on different pages. There is never a reason to do so, and will mark your contributions as advertising spam in the eyes of other editors."  Thanks! -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 15:23, 10 May 2011 (EDT)

Listing of travel agents and rental property bookers
The listing below was moved across here on 11 may 2011 for appropriate discussion and consideration and a blind note was put in the article seeking no further listing there without prior discussion here.
 * Please also see Consistent treatment of links as it contains comments from the IP responsible for listing Puerto Escondido Real Estate & Vacation Rentals and some associated edits. -- (WT-en) felix 00:26, 11 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Please read the discussion page again. Apparently you missed that I raised it as a discussion already, gained consensus, no one objected or deleted it until you did. I have undone your edits which removed it. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 75.99.230.10 (talk • contribs) (Puerto Escondido Real Estate & Vacation Rentals)

 * IP 75.99.230.10 (Puerto Escondido Real Estate & Vacation Rentals), possibly you need to read the entire thing again yourself and if you want this listing back in the article go ahead and remove all remaining embellishments. Please do not relist something in the article that has been removed from the article for discussion prior to that content being reviewed. Also please sign your notes here using ~ at the end so it is clear who you are without having to go digging through the edit history to check. Thank you--(WT-en) felix 16:38, 11 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Felix- please explain and articulate what you mean. What 'embellishments'? What gives you the right to remove it from the article when I had already posted it for discussion/consensus, gained it, put the link back and it was on the page, undisturbed for 10 days until you came along and decided to be the sheriff? —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 75.99.230.10 (talk • contribs) (Puerto Escondido Real Estate & Vacation Rentals)

 * I suspect the issue is the "gained consensus" statement - there wasn't any broad agreement to include rental listings. My primary misgiving is that if such businesses are indeed "a common, if not primary, form of accommodation" for visitors then there should be multiple reputable agencies to list, but currently there is just the one. Provided the article includes a list of 3-5 major agencies, with good descriptions that would allow a traveler to choose between them, I would not be opposed this section being present. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 18:37, 11 May 2011 (EDT)

 * I agree with Ryan's points. Here's the reply I was trying to post when his got posted:

 * There are several issues here. (1) I don't think you can claim one comment by one person constitutes a consensus. (2) I think Felix is talking about generic promotional terms like "luxurious splendor" - see Project:Words to avoid. (3) Just taking the listing below out of context (i.e., without prejudice to other listings), I would consider it pretty OK but would want you to give an upper limit to price. (4) I don't think that my opinion is conclusive, either. A consensus means just that. So, considering that the purpose of Wikivoyage is to aid travelers - Project:The traveller comes first - and not to promote anyone's business, it's probably best to wait a bit longer and discuss things further. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 18:43, 11 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Really I was more referring to what was the remaining promotional tone in the Puerto Escondido Real Estate & Vacation Rentals  listing detail, in particular; "Features the largest selection of apartments, condos and beach front homes for rent across all categories" and "from economy to luxurious splendor". However I note that the contributor has also somewhat embellished the responses made in regard to consensus having been achieved, though I assume that is probably driven more by optimism and mis-understanding than anything of a more nefarious nature. Frankly I think the problem here is more one of an enthusiastic local business person not paying enough attention to the listing requirements of Wikivoyage and then becoming belligerent and impatient when they do not quickly get their way, it is not exactly unheard of here and we are all quite familiar with this sort of behaviour. Over all I suggest that the contributor is most likely confused but contributing in good faith at least from their own POV. I am also entirely in agreement with the commentary made by both Ryan and Ikan Kekek above. -- (WT-en) felix 11:46, 12 May 2011 (EDT)

Proposed vote on listing of rental property bookers
I have detailed a history of the previous, current and proposed versions of the listings concerned. I must also make note at this point that it is not appropriate to delete unused listing fields from the string as has been done in the Puerto Escondido Real Estate & Vacation Rentals listing. This only complicates and slows down future edits, especially for inexperienced contributors, Please just don't do it!

Article content-Rental properties
Previous content, prior to revision by User:(WT-en) Wrh2 on 14:54, 29 April 2011 and User:(WT-en) Felix505 on 05:56, 5 May 2011:

===Rental properties===
 * Features the largest selection of apartments, condos and beach front homes for rent across all categories - from economy to luxurious splendor with private chefs, maids, car and driver. Long term discounts are available.

Current (removed to Discussion page) version

 * Features the largest selection of apartments, condos and beach front homes for rent across all categories - from economy to luxurious splendor with private chefs, maids, car and driver. Long term discounts are available.

Current Recommended version

===Rental properties===
 * Large selection of apartments, condos and beach front homes for rent. Includes both basic rentals through to those with private chefs, maids, car and driver. Discounts are available for longer stays.

 * Support, a section for holiday rentals and the listing of Puerto Escondido Real Estate & Vacation Rentals in that section if that sub-section is to be established. The assertion by the contributor appears reasonably valid in that there is vacation rental activity in this area and that such services are most likely sought out by visitors to the area. It would also be appropriate to see some other suppliers listed if a Rental properties section is to be established, rather than it being the sole domain of one supplier. The proviso should remain that the listing stays on the Discussion page until that clarification is made. Generally we do not support the listing of such endeavours unless this can be conclusively shown. Essentially on this I share the view that Ryan expressed above and I believe the onus is upon the contributor/provider to show this if they wish to list that service here. -- (WT-en) felix 11:46, 12 May 2011 (EDT)
 * Email address removed from proposed Puerto Escondido Real Estate & Vacation Rentals listing upon request by 75.99.230.10 -- (WT-en) felix 13:07, 12 May 2011 (EDT)

Article content-Surfing
==Buy== Previous content-Odyboards Surf Shop & Factory, prior to revision by User:(WT-en) Felix505 on 05:56, 5 May 2011

 * Odyboards Surf Shop & Factory The largest selection of new and used surfboards and accessories in Puerto Escondido. Ask for Ody, he's a super friendly guy that can handshape you a wicked custom epoxy surfboard.

Current Recommended version-Odyboards Surf Shop & Factory, Content edited by User:(WT-en) Felix505 in and article wide general revision on 05:56, 5 May 201, that removed front linking. The listing was later re-formatted to standard  listing format and updated into article on 12 may 2011.

 * Large selection of new, used surfboards and accessories in Puerto Escondido. Custom boards are available.

 * Support, if this is the listing the contributor is referring to then I cannot see any conflict with WT policies in listing now the front linking has been removed. -- (WT-en) felix 11:46, 12 May 2011 (EDT)

Article content - Pascale Restaurant in Eat section
Previous content, prior to revision by User:(WT-en) Felix505 on 05:56, 5 May 2011

 * Pascale, located at Playa Principal (just off Adoquin) is the best restaurant in the area. The French cuisine is given an incredible lift by the extreme freshness of the seafood. An amazing setting, where the seating pours out onto the sand, and a few small changes in the decor make this place amazing. The service is excellent but the food even more so. Try the paella with lobster.

Recommended content

Content was edited by User:(WT-en) Felix505 in an article wide general revision on 05:56, 5 May 2011. Currently the version below is in article and it is proposed to leave it in the current form as it has been recently de-touted and appears to have no direct conflicts with any other listings made or proposed by Puerto Escondido Real Estate & Vacation Rentals. It would be beneficial if a full address was supplied (if it has one), and a phone number.

==Eat==

 * French cuisine using fresh seafood. Beachside and on-beach dining. Good service. Try the paella with lobster.

 * Support, but only if the business concerned is truly not directly connected with the other and with an undertaking not to tout it up again and the contributor supplies some information about where they are and how to contact them, surely they have an address and telephone number. -- (WT-en) felix 11:46, 12 May 2011 (EDT)

Article content-Gift shop
Previous content, prior to revision by User:(WT-en) Felix505 on 05:56, 5 May 2011

 * Puerto Escondido Oasis on the Adoquín pedestrian mall is a gift shop that offers gifts, clothing as well as local and imported home furnishings and accessories.

Recommended content

Content was edited by User:(WT-en) Felix505 in an article wide general revision on 05:56, 5 May 2011. Currently the version below is in article and it is proposed to leave it in the current form as it has been recently de-touted and the front linked external link to the travel and vacation rental agency has been removed. It would be suitable though to use the listing format as below and for an address and phone number to be applied.

 * Puerto Escondido Oasis, Adoquín pedestrian mall. Gift shop with, clothing, local and imported home furnishings and accessories.

 * Gifts and clothing from Thailand, Indonesia and Mexico. Local and imported home furnishings and accessories.

 * Support, listing at this time but with some reservations. Whilst the Vacation Rentals listing is not present there is no issue at all as the front linked external link to the travel and vacation rental agency is gone now. The Gift Shop detail may be of usefulness to the traveller. However if the Vacation Rentals listing goes back in it becomes rather borderline allowing two listings as the business activities are clearly symbiotic and very closely related in both promotion and presence. There are many quite serious and multi faceted enterprises that only get one listing when they supply a range of services such as accommodation, restaurants, function facilities, bars, nightclubs, health clubs, gyms, golf courses and spas as either one enterprise or group of enterprises and they only get one listing to cover the whole lot of them. I am a little doubtful as to the appropriateness of making an exception here as the gift shop enterprise could be included as an append to the rentals listing.-- (WT-en) felix 13:00, 12 May 2011 (EDT)
 * Email address removed from proposed Puerto Escondido Oasis listing upon request by 75.99.230.10 -- (WT-en) felix 13:07, 12 May 2011 (EDT)

The above suggestions and recommended listings are made with the very strong proviso that Puerto Escondido Real Estate & Vacation Rentals and any persons associated with that enterprise must entirely comply with standard Wikivoyage policies and guidelines and make an undertaking to continue to respect those policies and guidelines as time goes by. It must be understood that there is no right to list here on WT. The guiding principal of Wikivoyage is that all content must be in the interests and to the clear potential benefit of the traveller. There is no undertaking nor any intent to assist in any business endeavours by way of promotion or other provision unless it is clearly in the benefit of the traveller. It is envisioned that having read and understood the conditions under which a listing may placed into an article that the contributor will then not give rise to any further issues similar to the current one. Current and prior edits by this contributor have not been compliant and there is some resistance and belligerency being displayed by that contributor. If this continues it is unlikely that any further listing or contributions by that person or persons will be appropriate to this article. Constructive contributions are encouraged here and it is hoped that this contributor/s representing Puerto Escondido Real Estate & Vacation Rentals may feel sufficiently motivated to read the appropriate WT policies and guidelines and contribute further to this article in a constructive manner only. If so made and with good intent then appropriate contributions to the Puerto Escondido are certainly most welcome. The personal slights against me made by this contributor have been addressed on my talk page where they were made and I see no reason for them to be discussed in any detail here on the article Talk page. -- (WT-en) felix 11:46, 12 May 2011 (EDT)

 * You want input, so my input is that I'm fine with all of this. But that shouldn't be surprising because I was OK with the vacation rental listing in the first place. I think the only real problem with the very positive remarks about the businesses in the original phrasing of the listings is that the owner, him-/herself was the one characterizing them, and that's what made it touty. If it were a regular customer making the same statements, it would be fine. And this goes to the heart of why we have guidelines about touting here: We generally have no way of knowing whether someone raving about a place is self-interested or just a fan. So I think your edits improve the tone of the listings, though I would further edit a few little things (dining instead of "dinning," etc.). (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 14:16, 12 May 2011 (EDT)

 * 1. I don't see where I have been belligerent. Frustrated and confused by some of the policies maybe. But belligerence is not my intention. Please accept my apologies, however, for any perceived offense. 2. I was unfamiliar with what was meant by touting. I see now what is meant by that as far as "largest" and "luxurious splendor". It was an effort to be descriptive in that we have inexpensive and affordable as well as high end luxury. I have no objections to 'toning' down the language. 3. The email address listed is incorrectly spelled and I would prefer to keep the email address off of the internet to prevent email spammers from harvesting it. 4. How long does the 'consensus' process go on. 1 day, 1 week, 1 month? No one commented for 10 days and this may be an article with little traffic or interest. Sounds like the process is a little subjective. That said, I think it's clear that the way you have updated the listing now adheres to the WT policies. So where do we go from here? When does the link get restored? Who decides this? 75.99.230.10 14:22, 12 May 2011 (EDT)

 * We're having the discussion here. One thing about any Wiki site is that anyone can be an editor. I can see why that would be frustrating for you, but Felix is endeavoring to get a wider consensus than one comment. If there is a clear consensus in favor of your listings, it will be cited and your listings will be restored if someone else decides to delete them after the fact. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 14:48, 12 May 2011 (EDT)

 * To Ikan, Felix, Ryan and Claus. This conversation seems to be going nowhere because no one is participating. So in addition to my question above about how long, I now question, how many people is needed for a consensus? Claus was fine with it. Ikan was always fine with it. Felix made changes to the touting and formatting to make the listing adhere to the guidelines. Ryan is ok with it except that he is extrapolating and drawing conclusions about the policy. Yes, it is a common form of accommodation. Just because it's common doesn't mean there are going to be multiple agencies. Do you know the population of the town? The geographic size? How many visitors a year do you think visit there? Have you searched to find other agencies? Any you find are poor forms of imitation that copy our material, trade dress as well as scour our website to poach our clients so that they will then have the same listings as us. I can provide evidence of each one of these statements. My point is that any other sites you find mostly likely have entirely duplicate (as well as duplicitous) content so I am not sure how helpful that will be to visitors. 75.99.230.10 16:21, 17 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Your points seem valid to me. Felix and Ryan, your take on this? Can the listings be put back up? I think we have a cooperative businessperson here and should give him/her a break and police something else that needs it more. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 16:33, 17 May 2011 (EDT)

 * I'm fine with restoring the listing, but to the point that "Any you find are poor forms of imitation that copy our material", this is one of the primary reasons why Wikivoyage does not generally include rental agency listings in articles. I can guarantee you that in the near future your competitors will all add listings to this article, and having let one agency be listed there is currently no fair way to prevent others.  If you've got suggestions as to how Wikivoyage can avoid becoming an ad brochure for questionable businesses the input would be appreciated. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 16:41, 17 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Thanks Ikan. I had a good feeling about you from the first words of yours here. Ryan I didn't say that to prevent imitators from listing here. I'm fine with that. I was more trying to point out that the town is small and prior to us there was nothing decent online. And like you said there's scant else to currently find, so. 75.99.230.10 20:18, 18 May 2011 (EDT)

I agree, this person has obviously made an effort to understand WT policies and guidelines now and as Ikan Kekek suggested there are certainly far greater and in some cases habitual transgressors here (on WT) to deal with. However it does present a couple of policy dilemmas. If we go ahead and put them in, as per the proposed listing content above, someone else may just come along and revert them on policy lines at some later time unless this has some pretty clear determinations made on it. If that happens it is going to leave the person listing here feeling a little perplexed. Ryan has also made a very good point and it is one I share a concern about. If we allow this rental booker on the page them others may follow and they may then turn this article into the same ongoing battlefield that some other articles have become with ongoing policy breaches, competitor deletions, hijackings and similar. The lister has already eluded to some issues there with competitors and this is not uncommon. The business is not actually being entirely excluded from the article. The gift shop and designer homewares business are in there, just minus the previous external link to the booking agency and travel service, as it had an external links policy problem in addition to the easily remedied front linking issue. Maybe the gift shop listing could mention that it is associated with a travel and rental booking service, but without the problematic external link. Something like: Shares the premises with a travel service and vacation rental booking agency. The person concerned has declined an email listing as they want to avoid the attendant issues and they have used an image to display their email address on their own website for that reason. The email address, due to its naming the agency in the address kind of hinted to that association by default but they do not want to list an email address. Maybe their phone number being included as per my revision above, plus a mention of the association with the travel service and booking agency is going to help if they cannot list the link due to External links policies. I did put this issue up on Travellers' pub hoping for some other input but no one else has expressed an interest to date. I did have a look around the area and the competitors websites early on. The local market seems pretty standard in terms of property listings, promotion and general style. The person listing here is just better presented, has a better designed and resourced website and appears to be more readily identified than some of the vacation rental bookers are elsewhere. For now I have updated the listing * Gifts and clothing from Thailand, Indonesia and Mexico. Local and imported home furnishings and accessories. as per the proposal above as no one seems to have any issues with that in that form. The rest still appears to be short of consensus at this time. I have been travelling and will come back to this again soon. -- (WT-en) felix 11:33, 19 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Begging your pardon, I think you're worrying too much about issues that are not currently a problem here. Disallowing a listing because of the possibility of others posting listings that are more problematic at some point in the future strikes me as hard to understand. Shouldn't we take everything on a case-by-case basis? I agree that a phone number, if not an email, is needed, but assuming that it's provided, can we please drop this case? I think you do a lot of wonderful work - especially all the "grunt work" you do in inserting or reinserting Wikivoyage formats and styles for listings - but in this case, I think you're being overzealous. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 13:34, 19 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Ikan Kekek, I did rewrite the listings and state that I supported them going back into the article several days ago. However I cannot disagree with Ryans comments as stated above. Do bear in mind that this is not just about this listing alone. It is also about supporting the establishment of a rentals section in this article. BTY, Thank you for the kind comments on the 'grunt' work. However Ryan has apparently supported it with reservations and I supported it days ago, with similar reservations and Ikan Kekek appears to support so I am going to put (the edited version) of the vacation rental listing back in and in doing so establish a rentals section. It has been sitting on the WT pub for a while now without other comments, and here so I assume there is a consensus, albeit with reservations. -- (WT-en) felix 11:45, 20 May 2011 (EDT)

Swept in from the Traveller's pub
Puerto Escondido—Proposed vote on listing rental property bookers Hi all, could some experienced editors please have a look over the outline of edit/listing content for several listings in the Puerto Escondido article and either give an opinion or a vote on the appropriateness of these listings. The listing contributor is a business operator and although not new to WT it appears their experience of the policies, guidelines and MoS have been pretty much limited to a listing established in the article a long time ago. Recent activity has involved re-establishing their previously deleted listing and adding 3 more resulting in what appears to have been some unintentional non-WT MoS appropriate outcomes. They then got a bit upset and became a little belligerent when things started getting deleted and edited. Essentially the issues were some mild listing touting language, front linking, multiple listing and cross (front) linking a gift shop enterprise to a (shared) URL with a travel agent and vacation rental service provider operated by the same business entity. As listing an external link to a travel agency service is not permitted and the listing of a rental booker requires consensus and establishment of an appropriate section I accordingly de-linked the gift shop from the travel agent vacation booker. I de-frontlinked another listing by the same contributor, de-touted a restaurant and a surf shop listed by the same contributor and then removed the vacation rental listing to the discussion page, de-touted it and it remains there awaiting a consensus vote or similar decision as it requires a Rentals section to be established in the article. We also need to decide whether it is appropriate for this business operator to multiple list with the gift shop and the associated travel agency and rental booker. (nb; I do not recall them actually mentioning the travel agency in the article, however the URL points to a travel agent and vacation booker). Many multiple activity/services providers are denied a multiple listing where they have a range of defined yet quite separate services and undertakings working in synergy. A large resort or entertainment complex being an example. They normally only get to list once despite having many things going on. I personally see the restaurant and the surf shop as being separate businesses and I suspect this person is looking after IT related things for them rather than it being a 'shared' enterprise. The Travel service, gift shop, design services and rentals agency are all under the one roof and clearly directly associated. I would appreciate some input and hopefully some sort of consensus vote on this so it has come closure for both the contributor and the article.

The contributor has slowly come to an understanding of what is going on and I think now understands that the process is non-adversarial and that a positive determination will actually serve to assist in protecting their listing/s and a negative one will clarify that the listing is not appropriate. They have also now expressed an understanding of the nature of promotional language and the WT Don't tout policy. Thanks -- (WT-en) felix 12:23, 14 May 2011 (EDT)
 * Maybe someone else would like to look this over and give an opinion.-- (WT-en) felix 11:40, 19 May 2011 (EDT)

Sunset above La Punta - Add to map?
Hi Wikivoyagers. I have added watching the sunset above La Punta in the 'See' section after doing it the other day. I hope it ok. Also, can we add it to the map? Cheers, --Justvagabonding (talk) 20:49, 24 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Please feel free to go ahead and add it to the map. Thanks for adding it to 'See' – I wish I'd known about that spot when I visited last year! – StellarD (talk) 07:38, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Puerto Escondido


text:
Talk:Puerto Galera

This article needs some work doing. Listings are all over the place with masseuses interspersed with Dive Shops, etc. An important destination. Can anybody help? (WT-en) Shep 03:04, 31 January 2010 (EST)

 * I'll try to but I'm kind of busy with Negros Occidental and Bacolod, I've organized it however I'll try to improve it even though I haven't been to Puerto Galera. (WT-en) SnappyHip 13:50, 09 February 2010 (GST)

More on girlie bars?
Friends who are into such things tell me Puerto Galera and Mango Avenue in Cebu are now much the best places in the country for these bars. Areas that were fairly amazing when they were near US bases during the Vietnam War (Air Force in Angeles and Navy in Subic) are now nasty, heavily commercialized, and full of Korean & Middle Eastern tourists. Even ex-servicemen with some fond memories do not like what they have become. Manila has lots of rent-a-hottie services but is not generally a pleasant place to visit.

Should we give more info on such bars as we do at Thailand? Pashley (talk) 07:26, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Seaplanes?
I just removed a paragraph, preserving it here:
 * A more expensive alternative is to arrive by seaplane. Air Juan fly from Manila airport or Coron to Puerto Galera. Subic Seaplane are primarily a charter airline; at one time they had scheduled flights from Subic, but as of December 2018 those are not available.

Air Juan's website appears dead & their Facebook page was last updated in 2020. The Subic Seaplane Facebook page linked above no longer exists. They do have a website that mentions Puerto Galera, but the only transport option it describes is bus & ferry. Pashley (talk) 13:57, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Puerto Galera


text:
Talk:Puerto Limón

First person
I removed the following from the guide for data mining. (WT-en) Maj 12:30, 20 December 2006 (EST) Puerto Limon is a main city for cruise ships traveling through the Panama Canal. The town is very poor and can use your tourist dollars. Our guide suggested buying our souvenirs in this city rather than from the tour company for which he worked -- a nice gesture to help the people in the area rather than the major tourism companies.

From Puerto Limon we took an excursion white water rafting on the Reventizon River. Our guides were excellent and the day was beautiful! We floated down the river for approximately 90 minutes, traversing class 2 rapids (beginning level). Along the way, we saw a couple of sloths in the trees as well as the lush forest and cool water. It was a great trip with very welcoming local hosts. Do it if you get the chance!

title: Talk:Puerto Limón


text:
Talk:Puerto Maldonado

import from wikitravel
Added another guide (victor yohamona balarezo) -- special:contribs/80.216.43.149 11:08, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

wreck of the Contamana
Hi, according to enwiki "Puerto Maldonado has a place to view the sunken remains of Fitzcarrald's steam ship, the Contamana, which is located in the Madre de Dios River"; is this true? Arlo Barnes (talk) 05:20, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Puerto Maldonado


text:
Talk:Puerto Morelos

Rental Properties
Edits to date are mine. -- (WT-en) Deirdre Golash 11:34, 5 Feb 2005 (EST)

Entries recently deleted on this page stated that the user "deleted rental agent without real world address and phone number per our policy." That was a doubly wrong assumption as the address is in fact a physical location and the owner lives in PM and is not a rental agent.

The policy for deleting says "One thing we ask you never to do is to remove information about your competitors. Even if they break every rule in the book, don't remove it or edit it yourself. Instead point it out at Talk page of the Wikivoyage article providing a reason for deletion, and only after reaching a consensus there that it was done fairly, it can be removed from the article."

23:33, 26 November 2011 (EST)23:33, 26 November 2011 (EST)~ I live in Puerto Morelos and have a business that rents private vacation rentals (not hotel or timeshare, but rather privately-owned homes and condominiums. After reading this link: []it would seem that my first step is to reach a consensus on this talk page.

I would propose the following listing, in keeping with the parameters set forth in the above link:

If Consensus for me to post this ad is reached, my only question would be: In #2 of the guidelines (link above) mentions that: "If consensus is achieved, rental agency listings must be placed into a separate sub-section of the article's "Sleep" section." How do I format so that it is properly listed as a sub-section?

Thank you and looking forward to your feedback! 23:33, 26 November 2011 (EST)23:33, 26 November 2011 (EST)~

 * If a consensus in your favor is reached, you will need to avoid 1st-person pronouns ("we") and slogans like "places for every budget." Also, I have a question: The price is per what unit of time? Day? Week? Month? You need to clarify what unit of time is the minimum you would rent out a home or condo for. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 23:53, 26 November 2011 (EST)

Thank you for your feedback! Apologize for the delay in my response. To address concerns, I could edit it to read:

If this format is OK, what is the process for Consensus? Thank you. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Mrproperties (talk • contribs)

 * In addition to the guidance cited about about not using Wikivoyage for marketing, the criteria for listing rental agencies can be found at Apt. Based on those criteria rental properties should not be included in this article at this time. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 13:41, 13 March 2012 (EDT)

Thank you, (WT-en) Ryan. I hadn't seen that portion of the policies. So, according to http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Apt#Rental_listings, the first step is to find consensus that rental listings should be allowed. I would propose that due to the residential nature of the town, many accommodations that vistors seek are ones that are private homes/condos that are available within the village.

So, my proposal -- in following with the other requirements at the link regarding rental properties would be that I post the listing as follows, under its own sub-heading:

Does this proposal reach consensus?

May 25, 2012:

My listing has been removed again. Referring to the discussion above, I don't understand the reason for its removal. Can someone please explain? Thanks! Amber @ Mayan Riviera Properties —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Mrproperties (talk • contribs)

 * There are a lot of hotel-type accommodations already listed in this article, so it's not clear that this destination meets the criteria that "rentals are common" as outlined in the Apt guidelines. The argument that "due to the residential nature of the town, many accommodations that vistors seek are ones that are private homes/condos" would seem to be contradicted by the large number of non-rental accommodation listings already present in this article. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 18:17, 25 May 2012 (EDT)

June 11, 2012: My two rental properties were recently deleted. I went through this once before in 2010 when moderators assumed incorrectly that I was a rental agency. The conclusion was "Entries recently deleted on this page stated that the user 'deleted rental agent without real world address and phone number per our policy.' That was a doubly wrong assumption as the address is in fact a physical location and the owner lives in PM and is not a rental agent." See the notes above. The Condo Playasol and the Blue Monkey are personally owned and qualify under every definition of Wikivoyage’s policies.

Is either of these the official Puerto Morelos governmental tourism site?
http://www.puertomorelos.com/ has been replaced by http://www.puerto-morelos.org/ in the article. I've looked at both sites, and I see no evidence either of them is official, so I'd be inclined to link neither, per Wikivoyage's external links policies. Is there any official governmental tourism site for the town? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:03, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

 * Yeah, neither of those look like official tourism pages. WP gives http://www.puertomorelos.gob.mx as the official site of the city (often those include a link to the official tourism pages or at least have a subpage with tourist information). Sadly the site is down as of now. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:50, 1 September 2014 (UTC)

Featured as Off the Beaten Path?
Few Mexican articles reach guide status. If this article were to be featured, which time of the year would it be? And which improvements would be necessary? /Yvwv (talk) 19:11, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Puerto Morelos


text:
Talk:Puerto Plata

Removal from Sleep section
I removed the following listing from the Sleep section due to the anonymous post below it.
 *  Villa Parthenon, . Luxurious private villa close to Puerto Plata, and only 5 minutes walk to the broad sandy beach at Costambar.Private pool and jacuzzi,oversized bedrooms all with private bathroom, a/c,cable t.v.
 * Anonymous post:
 * Note this is a scam. The owner Mark Alleyne, and Thomas Belcher have been successfully sued in the New York Civil court. The owners have attempted to avoid payment of damages awarded by the court, refuse to provide addresses for service and insist that you wire money to their accomplice Michael Degler to some Miami bank before they will even give you any information.   Many of the electrical appliances don't because they are broken or there are regular power outages in the building and the owners refuse (unlike nearby owner of vacation homes in the Dominican Republic to provide a back up generator for the house). THIS IS NOT YOUR ALL INCLUSIVE HOTEL NOR IS IT A REPUTABLE HOTEL.  There is rampart drug use and prostitution in the area and it is not truly suitable for a family vacation.  For a copy of the court decision write to cheznous440@gmail.com.  You will never be given the name and address of a property owner and Michael Degler will find anyway that he can to avoid providing a mailing address for himself. He will insist on email and that you wire money to one of the Miami banks, a procedure used in the past by drug dealers.

(WT-en) Texugo 21:37, 16 April 2008 (EDT) I would keep this since it will protect many from these scammers. I had personal experience with these guys. They are not to be trused

Added the Cabarete travel guide.
I added the official Puerto Plata Travel Guide, this is not advertising, it is a community page to promote Puerto Plata.

title: Talk:Puerto Plata


text:
Talk:Puerto Rico

For future reference the Project:CIA World Factbook 2002 import can be found at Talk:Puerto Rico/CIA World Factbook 2002 import.

...we've got all the hot-button issues covered. But of course I forgot Vieques! --(WT-en) Evan 15:01, 28 Jan 2004 (EST)

Yes, this really doesn't even cover half of the story. Also, Culebra has a similar story, though the Navy left in 1975.

I moved
 * Until May 2003 about two-thirds of the island was controlled by the US Navy. The Navy used it as a bombing range and training facility. After four years of protest after the accidental bombing death of viequense David Sanes in 1999, the Navy left the island for good and the land was turned over to the US Department of the Interior.

to Vieques. -- (WT-en) Huttite 06:57, 20 May 2004 (EDT)

Visit Culebra!
Culebra is a "Must-See" for all of those who travel to Puerto Rico. It is a tiny little island off the East coast of Puerto Rico. You can catch the ferry at Fajardo. The ride is about two hours or so, and well worth it! Definitely head to Playa Flamingo, which is one of the most beautiful beaches in the world.

Culebra is uncommercialized, there is no McDonald's or Burger King. If you want to get away from it all, Culebra is the perfect place for you. Guaranteed...

Getting Around
I made a minor change to the section about needing to rent a car. If you're staying in San Juan, you don't have to get a car. My wife and I took the public buses (0.25 or 0.50) between our hotel and Old San Juan. A discussion of the bus system should probably go in the San Juan article, though, I suppose.

Article is a mess
This article is high POV. Is this US-Wikivoyage or just plain WikiTravel? The article is written from a high POV, mostly written from a US travel perspective, there is no other perspective at all. Statements like:''San Juan is not a safe area to venture out at night, nor are metropolitan area cities as well as the other big cities such as Ponce and Mayaguez. Women travellers should take extra care and always move around in a group and steer clear of Condado beach at night. A number of thefts take place on beaches, even in daytime.'' are strongly POV and instead of informing they are alarming, adding clichés and exagerating, they are short of saying this is the 'Island of Theft and flashy cars' which is not true at all.A mess. -- (WT-en) Vertical123travel 20:07, 13 Jan 2006 (EDT)
 * Plunge forward and improve it. -- (WT-en) Huttite 08:33, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)
 * I didn't find it at all alarming. This sounds like reasonable practice for most world cities, but it needs to be said. I found POV fair, since it's about "travel" and millions of US travelers go to PR each year. I read it top to bottom, found it useful. -- (WT-en) brian 16:55, 13 MAR 2007 (PDT)

 * The article is contradicting on passport usage...

Get in by plane - too much info!
Most of this I dont think is of much use, so Ive edited it out. This is the original text here (not sure where to put it) incase I get over zealous in editing it! (WT-en) Tsandell 15:25, 21 May 2006 (EDT)

''Getting to Puerto Rico almost always means flying to San Juan's Luis Muñoz Marín International Airport (SJU). The gleaming white terminal located just east of San Juan is ranked 34th among passenger airports in the United States and its territories. U.S. Immigration and Customs Laws and Regulations apply. U.S. citizens flying between the U.S. and Puerto Rico do not need to pass through Immigration nor Customs. It is almost exactly the same as flying from N.Y. to Atlanta or Chicago... except you can't shop duty-free in Chicago before flying back to New York.''

''Most U.S. and many international airlines offer direct flights to Puerto Rico, and making connecting flights is easy. SJU is one of the largest airports in the Caribbean and is a popular place for hopping over to the U.S. Virgin Islands and other Caribbean destinations.''

''If you have lots of luggage, beware there are no baggage carts -- not even for rental. Baggage porters may be available to help you for a tip or fee. The only exception is at U.S. Customs on International flights from outside the U.S. Eventually you'll reach a sign where it says "No carts beyond this point," but it is not enforced, and someone sitting there may tell you so as well.''

''Transferring from the airport to your hotel usually requires taking a taxi, although some hotels provide complimentary transportation to their properties in special buses. Puerto Rico Tourism Company representatives at the airport will assist you in finding the right transportation. Major car rental agencies are located at the airport, and others offer free transportation to their off-airport sites.''

''Duty Free One of the interesting facts about Puerto Rico that might not be emphasized enough in travel guidebooks is that since Puerto Rico is self governing due to it's Commonwealth status, there are no federal taxes or import duties paid on on commodities like gasoline (about $0.50/liter for 87 octane in San Juan, as of 4/27/05) or rum. This might be an important consideration when planning how much empty luggage to bring, as a 750 ml bottle of Johnny Walker Blue Label costs only $120 in the duty-free airport shop vs. $200+ on the mainland. Bacardi liquor brands are very inexpensive as well -- paying $8.00 for a 750 ml bottle of Bombay Sapphire gin can be something of a shock, after paying $9.00 for a single 4 oz martini of the same booze at La Guardia only 4 hours earlier. A 750 ml bottle of DonQ Crystal (the local favorite) is only $10.00 -- bring one home with you.''

From North America

2 ½ hours from Miami

3 ¼ hours from Atlanta

3 ¼ hours from New York City

3 ½ hours from Washington (D.C.)

4 ¼ hours from Toronto

4 ½ hours from Chicago and Dallas

7 ½ hours from Los Angeles

From Latin America

1 ½ hours from Caracas

5 ¾ hours from Mexico City

11 hours from Sao Paolo

From Europe

7 ¾ hours from Madrid

10 hours from Paris

10 ¼ hours from Brussels

12 hours from London

Driving in Puerto Rico
OK, this is such a big deletion that I think we need a third opinion. Does the deleted description sound like "any other big city", and/or which parts of it are "highly incorrect"? Please remember that being "POV" doesn't matter, what's important is being fair, and I thought the deleted bits were fairly informative-sounding. (WT-en) Jpatokal 23:47, 9 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Agreed, this is a confusion of Wikivoyage and Wikipedia policies. I find it informative and potential life saving. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 23:49, 9 August 2006 (EDT)

Regions
I was thinking that perhaps the article's "Regions" section should be placed about in the order of the form of electoral districts? Below are the following municipalities grouped within their designated electoral district. (WT-en) UniReb 02:15, 14 January 2007 (EDT)

Electoral District of San Juan
 * San Juan (capital)

Electoral District of Bayamón
 * Bayamón
 * Cataño
 * Guaynabo
 * Toa Baja

Electoral District of Arecibo
 * Arecibo
 * Barceloneta
 * Camuy
 * Ciales
 * Dorado
 * Florida
 * Hatillo
 * Manatí
 * Quebradillas
 * Toa Alta
 * Vega Alta
 * Vega Baja

Electoral District of Mayagüez
 * Aguada
 * Aguadilla
 * Añasco
 * Cabo Rojo
 * Hormigueros
 * Isabela
 * Las Marías
 * Mayagüez
 * Moca
 * Rincón
 * San Germán
 * San Sebastián

Electoral District of Ponce
 * Adjuntas
 * Guánica
 * Guayanilla
 * Jayuya
 * Lajas
 * Lares
 * Maricao
 * Peñuelas
 * Ponce
 * Sabana Grande
 * Utuado
 * Yauco

Electoral District of Guayama
 * Aibonito
 * Barranquitas
 * Cayey
 * Cidra
 * Coamo
 * Comerío
 * Corozal
 * Guayama
 * Juana Díaz
 * Morovis
 * Naranjito
 * Orocovis
 * Salinas
 * Santa Isabel
 * Villalba

Electoral District of Humacao
 * Aguas Buenas
 * Arroyo
 * Caguas
 * Gurabo
 * Humacao
 * Juncos
 * Las Piedras
 * Maunabo
 * Nagüabo
 * Patillas
 * San Lorenzo
 * Yabucoa

Electoral District of Carolina
 * Canóvanas
 * Carolina
 * Ceiba
 * Culebra
 * Fajardo
 * Loíza
 * Luquillo
 * Río Grande
 * Trujillo Alto
 * Vieques

 * I'm not sure that this would be the best way to create regions - at least from the travelers perspective. Having 8 regions might be too much for this island.  This map shows the breakdown by districts, and I think we could find something better.  How about this map?  North, South, East, West and Central sounds good to me. -- (WT-en) Fastestdogever 14:26, 18 March 2007 (EDT)
 * OK! As the city list has reached 10 cities and since we already have the territory broken down by Island, now is the time to create regions for the island of Puerto Rico itself. The breakdown by electoral district seems obscure to me. And while the breakdown by compass point would seem a good start, these regions may be better.

 * Porta del Sol (The western coast.)
 * Porta Caribe (The southern or Caribbean coast
 * Northern Coast
 * Including Metro San Juan
 * Eastern Coast
 * The Mountain (also called La Montaňa or La Cordillera Central) which seems to be an alernative name for the Central Region.

 * This would give 5 regions for the main island plus room for 2 more for the other islands and still have a list of just 7 top level regions. While further breakdowns could be at the electorate or municipal level, I am not sure that fine a breakdown is necessary yet, (or would ever be needed). - (WT-en) Huttite 06:52, 13 January 2010 (EST)

 * Excellent regions. --(WT-en) globe-trotter 13:56, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

 * And 2.5 years later, it is done! --Peter Talk 22:29, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Respect
I've toned down and introduced qualifiers in the paragraph about homosexuality in Puerto Rico. I find PR is far more open than other Carribean locations like Jamaica, Haiti, Dominican Republic, or Cuba. Conversely, is it not as open as more liberal areas of the USA, like New York or San Francisco. Somewhere in between.(WT-en) THD3 14:36, 10 June 2009 (EDT)

Tourism Brochure
This article reads too much like an advertisment "Puerto Rico is a drive-through buffet. All you need is a car, an appetite (the bigger the better), time, and the realization that your swimsuit won't fit as well when you get to your destination. The island has the most diverse culinary offerings in the entire Caribbean. There's something for everyone. You can enjoy the finest Puerto Rican food at most traditional town squares and also (for those of you who get homesick) have a steak at a place like Morton's." etc.

2/3 of the article looks like it could have been copied out of Lonely Planet, and not an encyclopedia.

—The preceding comment was added by 216.186.224.74 (talk • contribs)

 * This isn't an encyclopedia. We're trying to write like a travel guide, because we are a travel guide.  A whole bunch of travel guides, in fact.  (WT-en) LtPowers 19:49, 28 January 2010 (EST)

Cellular and Internet
I updated this section with my experiences and with the foreign traveler in mind. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) GPSRider (talk • contribs)

 * And it was updated again, but I'm confused. The reader needs to know which cellular networks exist, not which company bought which. If any of these names are no longer used, please delete them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:55, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I added the info about Claro (owned by América Móvil) and AT&T/Liberty Latin America. It is not clear from what I have read if the services have been rebranded yet. I agree that there is no need to keep the old names in the article if visitors are not going to see them when they get there. Ground Zero (talk) 01:26, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * OK, cool. Maybe it should be mentioned that it's not yet clear as of December, 2020 whether or when these services will be rebranded. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:38, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I know there's Claro and Liberty and Neptune . That's all I know about staying 'connected'. GPS works very well, though that's probably a different topic. --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 02:17, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

Cities list
I pared the cities list down to nine items. But I'm no expert on Puerto Rico—if I picked a poor sample of cities, please change it/replace it with a better one. --Peter Talk 22:30, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Currency, time and spelling conventions
Below is a proposed infobox to let readers know which formatting conventions to use in Wikivoyage articles. Do you agree with these proposals? If you have direct knowledge of what is most commonly used in the country, please let us know. Ground Zero (talk) 13:55, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Moved to the top of this page. Ground Zero (talk) 13:32, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Why do you think the 24-hour clock is used more than the 12-hour clock that's used on the U.S. Mainland? I'd be surprised. The Eloquent Peasant, what's your experience? I'm blanking on the name of the other Boricua who sometimes edits here; if either of you remember, I'd like their input, too. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:47, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd be surprised too. In my several trips to the US, there were only two times where I saw the 24-hour clock used. One was on my Qantas ticket back home (which doesn't really count because Qantas is Australian) and the other was near the Mexican border in San Diego. Otherwise, it's all exclusively in 12. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:54, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah, no. I doubt P.R. uses the 24 hour clock. Not in my experience anyway. Maybe someone thought that because Spain uses the 24 hour clock and PR was colonized by Spain first.. I don't know. I think it should be the AM and PM.. that's the way I've always seen it. Thank you. —The preceding comment was added by The Eloquent Peasant (talk • contribs)
 * I defer to The Eloquent Peasant's local knowledge on this. Ground Zero (talk) 02:06, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Ditto. I'll change it to 12. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:09, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅. --SHB 02:09, 8 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you! --The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 02:10, 8 April 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Puerto Rico


text:
Talk:Puerto Vallarta

This is an especially well written article and right on the button. I did however remove the reference to hot air balloon rides, as they are no longer available. Darn. (WT-en) 2old 13:00, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

Inappropriate images
I've removed photos that are apparent copyright violations. Even if we did have the right to use, it a publicity image from a theme park (such as Image:Img_portada_vallarta2.jpg) is not the kind of photos we want in an impartial travel guide, and further, it violated our image policy requiring a model release for every recognizable person in a photo. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 14:58, 31 May 2007 (EDT)

Overstated?
I have visited Mexico many times and spent some time in Puerto Vallarta. I think, the statement about robberies and armed holdups is way overstated. Puerto Vallarta, like many "recreational visitor" areas in Mexico, have their version of "tourist police". The locals are aware of this and pretty much leave tourists alone, as in other Mexican "recreational visitor" areas. If not, they are loaded into the back of a Policia pick up truck, with four uniformed officers who politely (umm maybe not so politely), stomp the crap out of the offender on the way to jail. I consider Puerto Vallarta as safe or safer than most USA "recreational visitor" areas. (WT-en) 2old 17:00, 2 July 2007 (EDT)

I agree. I think a simple note to take the same precautions that you would at home would be suffice. --(WT-en) Goldie 06:58, 25 June 2010 (EDT)

Cirque de Soleil
Do we need to add something on Cirque_du_Soleil_Theme_Park? Pashley (talk) 00:10, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Ixtapa Archaeological Site
Is there really an archeological site that can be visited by tourists in Ixtapa (Jalisco)? Couldn't find anything. Flightnavigator (talk) 19:07, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
 * There's the Zona Arqueologica Soledad de Maciel o Xihuacan. Ground Zero (talk) 19:40, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

hm, isn't that site in the Mexican state of Guerrero (750 km away from Puerto Vallarta)? Flightnavigator (talk) 20:50, 11 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, yes. I did not know that there were two Ixtapae. Now I know. It's likely that the author of this line in the article made the same mistake. Ground Zero (talk) 20:58, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Mr Taco
as mentioned in 'Eat'. Does it still exist? Google Maps does not find it. And the directions are vague: "2 blocks east of Malecon, near Hard Rock Cafe".

The Malecon is long. And there seems to be no Hard Rock Cafe in PV. Flightnavigator (talk) 01:40, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

 * By all means, go ahead and delete. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:03, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Puerto Vallarta


text:
Talk:Puerto Viejo de Sarapiquí

This article is labeled as Puerto Viejo de Sarapiqui, but in fact describes both Puerto Viejo de Sarapiqui and Puerto Viejo de Limon (Talamanca). Puerto Viejo de Sarapiqui is a town in the province of Heredia, near La Selva Biological Station. Puerto Viejo de Limon is a town on the southern Caribbean coast in the province of Limon.

 * I've renamed this article to make it more clear which city this is. There is a separate article for Puerto Viejo de Talamanca.  Please move any material in this article that belongs in the other article. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 11:11, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Puerto Viejo de Sarapiquí


text:
Talk:Puerto Villamil

Sleep
I need to go back and clean this up. But I am currently in the Galapagos and the internet connection is not so hot. More soon, I hope. (WT-en) Butwhatdoiknow 14:15, 10 July 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Puerto Villamil


text:
Talk:Puget Sound

Subregions
I like the addition of "South Sound" and "North... Sound" as subregions. They make sense. I wonder about the name "Northwest Sound" for Whidbey and Camano Islands. I had thought of them as "Northeast", since Admiralty Inlet is the generally accepted north boundary of Puget Sound, and those islands are east of Admiralty Inlet. Looking at a map, however, the islands are pretty much due north of "South Sound". So how about calling the subregion "North Sound"? BTW I haven't heard these as local names for the areas. Of course if there are local names, they probably are best. (WT-en) JimDeLaHunt 13:32, 12 June 2007 (EDT)

 * I agree. When I was cleaning stuff up, I think I was thinking Northwest of Seattle but North Sound is more practical. (WT-en) Celticevergreen 00:20, 14 June 2007 (EDT)

wow, this is a tough one, I worked on this a little this morning but the region is so huge that it's difficult to get my brain around and it's ripe for misinformationLumpytrout (talk) 14:52, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

NOAA divides PS into five seperate regions 1) North Puget Sound, 2) Main Basin, 3) Whidbey Basin, 4) South Puget Sound, and 5) Hood Canal can we agree to use this since everything else is kind of arbitrary?Lumpytrout (talk) 05:05, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Hi Lumpytrout. That sounds good to me, though I changed the name of "Main Basin" to King County in the breakdown, since that's where the information currently is. I linked North Sound and South Sound, since they were still unlinked for some reason. That leaves Whidbey Basin and Hood Canal, which still need to be created, but I'm a little unsure where the boundaries are, so I'd like to leave it to someone more knowledgeable. Texugo (talk) 20:12, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

ferry service
clearly the ferry section needs to be worked on and expanded. I'm not familiar with all routes. ideas on how it should be organized?

title: Talk:Puget Sound


text:
Talk:Pulau Payar Marine Park

Copyvio from (or any of a number of similar pages copying each other...). (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:53, 7 Sep 2004 (EDT)

 * Good catch. -- (WT-en) Colin 23:44, 7 Sep 2004 (EDT)

 * I've stubbed in a template rather than leave it blank. (WT-en) Hypatia 06:51, 11 Nov 2004 (EST)

title: Talk:Pulau Payar Marine Park


text:
Talk:Pulau Redang

Contributor link: for researching this article try: - (WT-en) Huttite 07:42, 15 Apr 2005 (EDT) I think that might be the biggest jump in a single edit ever on Wikivoyage. Hope you enjoyed your trip -- Pulau Redang looks like a great place. --(WT-en) Evan 10:19, 26 Jul 2005 (EDT)
 * http://www.cuti.com.my/Sub/Terengganu/guide_predang.htm

 * Ta — three cheers for a saved copy, a laptop and a few hours to kill on an airplane. And Redang is OK, but the Perhentians are much better value for money... (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:55, 26 Jul 2005 (EDT)

Redang Bay Divers
I'm not sure when the above was written, but I've been diving with them since '97, and in all of these years, safety was the number ONE concern. This is obvious even from the OW training sessions, where lessons are repeated and repeated until the student is familiar. This is not generally practised by most of the other "better" dive centre staff. Part of the reason why their rates are so low is because they rent their tanks and equipment out to the other dive centres on the island that have less equipment. -- R.Yeoh Jul 6 2006

 * The comment was based on my experience last year, diving with a friend who is a nervous novice diver. She asked for help with checking her gear, but none was given.  She was told that the dive would be easy, but the site had strong currents and choppy waves.  The boat was crammed with way too many people, the pre-dive briefing was a joke and the DMs were tattooed ah bengs who barely spoke English and obviously didn't give a fuck about anybody other than their buddies (who have also been diving with them since '97?).  The contrast to Coral Bay Divers, who we switched to for the next day, was like night and day. (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:16, 6 July 2006 (EDT)

Note : August 22 2006. I'm a divemaster and just returned from a 3-week stay at Redang Bay. None of what is written above seems to be true. They have lots of equipment sets but still turn away divers whenever they come up short. This happened on 6 of the days that I was there. They even had to reject Discover Scuba customers. The reason why they can "cram" in so many divers is cos they have 5 active instructors working there for both PADI and NAUI as well as an instructor trainer. 1 of their twin-agency instructors is also a licensed lifeguard instructor and has trained 6 of their own staff. NONE of the other resorts were willing to send their staff for the course. There're lots of things that R. Bay does that not many people are aware of. Like, they built the wooden mobile jetty outside Pasir Panjang beach for safety reasons when none of the other resorts were willing to invest in it. I will continue to use R. Bay when I go back. Nuff said. (added by [[User:(WT-en) Deep End)

 * I've rewritten the description to sum up the three experiences we have so far. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:53, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

Page name
Redang Island or Redang? Most of the article uses Redang Island, but the page name is "Redang". Rename? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:01, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

 * It's an island. How are we naming articles about other islands off the East Coast of Malaysia? Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:27, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Usually, we refer to it by the Malay name Pulau Redang. ("pulau" is the Malay word for "island") The dog2 (talk) 14:36, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Sure, Malaysians and Singaporeans do. But the thing to do would be to look at the articles for Pulau Kapas, Pulau Tioman and other islands off the East Coast, see if there's any consistency in Wikivoyage nomenclature, and then make a decision. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:02, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, we do use Cocos (Keeling) Islands, not Pulau Kokos (Keeling) which is the name of the island in Bahasa Melayu. Don't see why this can't be renamed as Redang Island (which redirects here). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:34, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Kokos is an Australian possession, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:35, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * But it has the same concept though. Use "Pulau" for the Malay name, and use "Island" for the English name. But I'm probably missing something which I probably am. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:38, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * In Singapore for instance, there is an island called Pulau Ubin, and everyone just uses the Malay name. Nobody ever calls it "Ubin Island" even when speaking formal English. That applies even when you are watching the news. The dog2 (talk) 02:18, 21 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, so that must be an exception I guess (it seems that also foreign news articles uses the Malay name). But in this case, Wikipædia uses Redang Island. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:08, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Well, WV's guidelines say we should default to the name in the local variety of English. At least in Singapore and Malaysia, both Pulau Tioman and Pulau Redang are referred to as such, even when speaking English. But I'll also defer to whatever the consensus is. The dog2 (talk) 09:11, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

 * I'd defer to you and Ikan. You both know the place much more than I do. tbh, I'm neutral on the name whether it's in English or Malay. I just don't like that the article is just named "Redang" with no "island" nor "pulau" in it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:38, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

 * The dog2 is certainly right about local English usage. The only island I can think of in Malaysia that doesn't use "Pulau" in Malaysian English is Pulau Pinang, which is instead called Penang. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:53, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

 * There's Langkawi too. The dog2 (talk) 05:01, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

 * It's not called Pulau Langkawi all the time? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:18, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

 * In Malay, yes, but not in English. But in Singapore, people don't say "Langkawi Island" either. People just say "Langkawi". The dog2 (talk) 06:44, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

 * OK, thanks for clarifying. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:09, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅. Renamed. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:13, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

I hate to reopen this box of worms, but I think we made the wrong call with the naming here? The Perhentians, Redang and Tioman are usually called just that, there's no risk of confusion with anything else so both "island" and "pulau" are unnecessary. Jpatokal (talk) 04:12, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

 * I don't know any English-language name, only Malay, and "pulau" (or for an archipelago, "kepulauan") is always used in Malay, isn't it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:51, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I thought so too (only for pulau though; my Malay is nowhere near good enough to know what the word for archipelago is ;-)). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:52, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I attended Sekolah Kebangsaan (Malay-language public school) for standards 5 and 6, and the geography instruction in my school was great. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:18, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Though I've never studied outside my home country, I can tell for a fact that in most Asian countries (i.e. the broad definition, not specific to E and SE Asia), they have a good geography syllabus and it really does pay off; it does certainly explain why reading English-language journalism from any Asian country is way more interesting to read than those you'd find in the Anglosphere, with the worst being the US (and no offense, but US journalism has barely any international coverage and I blame its geography syllabus) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:03, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
 * No offense taken. I was taught more geography in 2 years of elementary school in Malaysia than I was ever taught in school in the U.S.; the great majority of the rest of my geography study was informal, out of personal interest. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:28, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

For avoidance of doubt, I'm suggesting we move to plain old "Redang", and do the same for Tioman. This is in line with Langkawi and Penang as well. Jpatokal (talk) 01:42, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

 * Note what The dog2 said about Penang and Langkawi being exceptions, with all the rest being called "Pulau [Name]" in Singaporean and Malaysian English. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:50, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

I've lived in Singapore for 10 years and never heard people use "Pulau" for Redang or Tioman. Pretty much the only place where it's a fixed part of the name in English is Pulau Ubin right here in Singapore, and not even Singapore's other islands (Tekong, Semakau, Jurong etc) get the same treatment. Jpatokal (talk) 23:16, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

 * Right, but aren't we supposed to use Malaysian English though? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:28, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure what people in Malaysia would say in English; I think they would use "Pulau," but I usually speak Malay in Malaysia. There are also probably more native speakers of English in Singapore than in Malaysia. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:53, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

 * I've always used "Pulau Tioman" and "Pulau Redang", and those terms are commonly used by dive operators in Singapore since they often organise weekend trips there (and to another island off the coast of Johor called Pulau Dayang). People will certainly understand you if you drop the "Pulau", but at least back when I was still living there, we usually said it with the "Pulau" even when speaking English. The dog2 (talk) 23:41, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

New banner
Title.

Was cropped for a new banner at Terengganu, although we kept the current banner, but hope that might work for this article. Can do a file rename for "Terengganu new banner" if the new banner is picked if it does not seem descriptive. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:07, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Sure, the proposed replacement is better. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:27, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

 * I agree. Banner 1. Ground Zero (talk) 17:55, 22 November 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 21:04, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pulau Redang


text:
Talk:Pulau Sempu

Is Pulau Sempu really a National Park? I think it might have some local provincial reservation status, but not as a NP.--(WT-en) Burmesedays 22:38, 3 June 2010 (EDT)

Merge with Malang
There is not much to write about Sempu, and it is covered as an attraction at Malang, along with the other Balakembang beach areas. I think this article could sensibly be merged into Malang. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 22:50, 3 June 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Pulau Sempu


text:
Talk:Puli

''Among Taiwanese, Puli is famous for its four 'W's - water, wine, women and weather. '' Is this actually true? I mean, those are English words in Latin script. I'd think there'd more likely be a Four-character idiom or something. Is this really a traditional or well-known saying about Puli? --(WT-en) Evan 12:51, 21 April 2006 (EDT)
 * Yes, it is true. Puli was famous for these four characteristics, and I image that the English four W idea arose from some alert PR agent. Now it is recognized as one of the the town's trade marks. Among others, you can find reference to these four 'W's on the following sites:, ,  (WT-en) WindHorse 22 April 06

title: Talk:Puli


text:
Talk:Pulpit Rock

Pulpit Rock and Preikestolen
A rock does not merit its own article, much less two separate ones.
 * Delete - (WT-en) Texugo 19:47, 24 November 2008 (EST)
 * Attraction, not a destination, so Redirect both to Stavanger. (WT-en) LtPowers 20:15, 24 November 2008 (EST)
 * Redirect. I could go either way with this, but the named articles constitute a useful navigational aid. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 13:15, 8 December 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Pulpit Rock