text:
Talk:Pearl Islands

Wouldn't our naming convention ("most common English name") make this "Pearl Islands"? - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 19:13, 19 July 2006 (EDT)

 * It depends on the destination, of course. We don't mechanically translate names into English (we call it Los Angeles, not The Angels), but if there is a common name used in English media, books, etc., we prefer to use that to the local name. TGN gives this place with "Pearl Islands" as the English name. We should probably get some more data points, though... --(WT-en) Evan 19:33, 19 July 2006 (EDT)

 * Given the popularity of the various "Survivor: Pearl Islands" episodes (around 20 million viewers per week as I recall), the fact that the Wikipedia article is "Pearl Islands", and your guide recommendations above I think it makes sense to change the name. -- (WT-en) Ryan 19:53, 19 July 2006 (EDT)

 * I wasn't suggesting that we move Tierra del Fuego to "Land of the Fire", Tennessee to "Place Where It Bends", Boca Raton to "Rat Mouth", or Hamburg to "Burger", just pointing out that "Pearl Islands" seems to be the most common term used by the English-language Sites We Do Not Link To. The Survivor sequel (which I learned of from this article... 20 million viewers?!) hits the ball out of the park. ¡Muévalo! - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 21:17, 19 July 2006 (EDT)
 * That's a whole lot of great trivia... "Rat Mouth", eh? (WT-en) Majnoona 21:31, 19 July 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Pearl Islands


text:
Talk:Pearl River Delta

Map
Nice map. Praise to whoever made it. But could someone please add Macau? (WT-en) Pashley 07:32, 22 December 2010 (EST)

Rating?
This is currently tagged as an outline and I think it should be at either usable or guide status. However, as the main author, I am not willing to decide that myself. Volunteers? Pashley (talk) 14:03, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

 * See Region guide status. The See section is still empty, that's why it's still at outline status. --Globe-trotter (talk) 15:54, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

 * I have filled in the See section a bit and bumped it to usable. Comments? Pashley (talk) 22:16, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

 * I think the content here is now up to Guide level, but it cannot be promoted because some places it links to are still at outline. Pashley (talk) 17:32, 9 April 2014 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Pearl River Delta


text:
Talk:Pedasi

Hello all. I am a current resident of Pedasi and would very much like to update the existing information on this page, especially since it is so limited and Pedasi has so many great things to offer.

As a new wikivoyage editor, I tried to add an existing Sleep accommodation, www.azuerosvillarentals.com. Azueros is a very common and famous location for travelers in Pedasi to stay along the beach, in its beach villas and ocean lofts that can be rented daily. It it not a rental agency listing, rather than working with on-site property managers and providing hotel-like services in your own villa or loft for your weekend or week-long trip. I think this is a great find for travelers, and would appreciate input to making this listing viable, including catering the description to WikiTravel guidelines.

This is what I propose to post: Azueros Villa Rentals Playa Los Destiladeros (10 minutes from Pedasi's center, El Limon highway exit (855) 9 PANAMA / (507) 838 SURF info@azuerosvillarentals.com. Azueros is a residential resort including beach villas and ocean lofts. Built to integrate in their tropical seaside landscape, all properties have ocean views and are a two-minute walk from Playa Los Destiladeros. Beach villas include a private swimming pool and ocean lofts have outdoor private balconies and a communal area. Properties include full bed accommodations for 4-5 people, fully equipped gourmet kitchens, A/C, wireless Internet, iPod dock, TV/DVD plater, washer/dryer, BBQ and daily maid service. Also includes concierge services for restaurants, guided trips and local community activities. $150 to $220 (varies by season)

Thank you,"(WT-en) KristenDunlap 17:36, 16 December 2011 (EST)"

 * I'm OK with this, except: (1) The rates have to be explained. Are those per day? Per week? (2) What is the street address of the office where keys can be obtained? It would also be helpful to use the format shown at Project:Accommodation listings. It looks like the listing needs a little more work, but I don't have a problem with the idea of listing the villa rentals. Let's wait for other people to express their opinions, though. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 21:06, 16 December 2011 (EST)

 * Thanks for your response and support Ikan. To respond to your questions: 1. Ocean Lofts run $150-$175, Beach Villas $195-$220, varies by season. 2. Keys are picked up in Azueros when you arrive at your ocean loft or beach villa (Address: Azueros, Playa Los Destiladeros, Pedasí, Los Santos, Panamá). It works the same way as the address that is provided for ¨Posada Los Destiladeros¨- the street doesn´t have a name, it is oriented by the beach and a sign is given for Panama Bambu and its´ Posada, just like Azueros. 3. Let me try and follow the Accommodations listing recommendations and provide this revision:

 * Azueros Villa Rentals' Playa Los Destiladeros (10 minutes from Pedasi's center, 10 km off El Limon highway exit'') US:(855) 9 PANAMA / Panama: (507) 838 SURF info@azuerosvillarentals.com http://www.azuerosvillarentals.com. Azueros is a residential resort including beach villas and ocean lofts. Built to integrate in their tropical seaside landscape, all properties have ocean views and are a two-minute walk from Playa Los Destiladeros. Beach villas include a private swimming pool and ocean lofts have outdoor private balconies and a communal area. Properties include full bed accommodations for 4-5 people, fully equipped gourmet kitchens, A/C, wireless Internet, iPod dock, TV/DVD player, washer/dryer, BBQ and daily maid service. Also includes concierge services for restaurants, guided trips and local community activities. Ocean Lofts US$150- $175/night, Beach Villas $195-$220/night (varies by season) 190.34.99.2 10:26, 17 December 2011 (EST)

 * I think this is OK, though it's probably best to put this into the structure that you'll get when you click on "[add listing]" above the right-hand corner of the "Sleep" section. I will try to get response from some other people because I will be happier if there is at least one other person backing me up. I don't want to approve the listing and then see someone come later and delete it. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 13:49, 17 December 2011 (EST)

 * Residential resort built in a style integrating with the tropical seaside landscape. Beach villas include a private swimming pool and sleep 4-5 adults. Ocean lofts have outdoor private balconies and a communal area. Fully equipped with gourmet kitchens, A/C, WiFi, iPod dock, TV/DVD player, washer/dryer, BBQ and daily maid service. Includes concierge services for restaurants, guided trips and local community activities. All accommodations have ocean views and are a 2 min walk from Playa Los Destiladeros. --  (WT-en) felix 15:23, 20 December 2011 (EST)

 * Thanks, Felix. Only two people now have weighed in on this listing, but Kristen, I think if there are no further comments on this "Talk" page in the next 24 hours, we can call this a consensus, and I'll back you up if you post this listing as edited by Felix then. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 16:37, 20 December 2011 (EST)

 * Glad we could work together on this. All that is left to change is the alphabetical order of the listings once that we see it has been communally accepted. (WT-en) KristenDunlap 10:03, 27 December 2011 (EST)

Help with Pedasi villa rental listing

 * Swept in from the pub.

Hi, everyone. There's been a discussion of a villa rental listing at Talk:Pedasi. I'm OK with the listing now, but I'd like for some other folks to weigh in, so that we can achieve a consensus and either have the listing go up and stay up or not. Thanks a lot, everyone! (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 13:52, 17 December 2011 (EST)

 * An awful lot of effort gone into explaining how to a single user how they should format a listing. Really hope they put the information to good use rather than just making their own listing and leaving.  Personally, I'd have pointed them at dt and some stars.  --(WT-en) Inas 22:41, 20 December 2011 (EST)

 * But rental listings have to be by consensus, so how do we get that the way you're describing, unless we change our policy on rental listings? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 01:24, 21 December 2011 (EST)

 * Personally, I wouldn't be forming a consensus about listing rentals in a place if the person just has a vested interest in getting their single listing included in the guide. I don't think that is the sort of consensus we are looking for.  If there is a someone with an interest in a destination, then that's different.
 * However, I have no problem with what you guys have done. It is all good, just pointing out that I wouldn't have gone to such effort in a situation where I believe the user in question is just interested in getting their listing in the guide. Hoping I'm wrong, though.  --(WT-en) Inas 06:45, 21 December 2011 (EST)

title: Talk:Pedasi


text:
Talk:Pedro Gonzalez

Individual listings from a single rental office
Could you please combine the following into a single listing for the "main shop on Zaragoza beach"?

 * Nice rooms on the beach

 * Nice rooms on the beach

 * Nice rooms on the beach

(WT-en) Texugo 22:19, 19 October 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Pedro Gonzalez


text:
Talk:Pedu

Pedu

 * Delete (or merge into region article) A lake with apparently one resort on an island. --(WT-en) Wandering 13:10, 18 January 2008 (EST)

 * Keep & redirect to Kedah ~ 203.144.143.4 21:07, 18 January 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Pedu


text: Talk:Pelio

title: Talk:Pelio


text:
Talk:Peloponnese

Itineraries section
Ilkirk, would you comment why you moved this line from Itineraries to Get Out?
 * Stay in Nafplion and drive in radial directions to ancient sightseeing, one destination a day.

It is not about leaving the region, but about one of the ways to explore it (what is called Itineraty here, AFAIU). Please let me know your reasons -- and thanks for templating the article. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 03:04, 29 Sep 2005 (EDT)

 * Daytrips go in Get out (see Project:Where you can stick it). The plural "directions" above implies to me that this is a number of daytrips, all originating in Peloponnese rather than a single, multiday route. -- (WT-en) Colin 10:35, 29 Sep 2005 (EDT)

 * As I can see from Project:Where you can stick it, "sticking" it to GetOut makes sense only when you leave a place you describe (like go to towns around Athens -- which are BEYOND the city).
 * By 'ancient sightseeing' I meant ' Ancient Olympia, Epidarus, Mykene, Corinth, Mystra, Sparta' (please suggest how to make it more clear), which all are WITHIN Peloponnese region, not NEAR it. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 11:08, 29 Sep 2005 (EDT)

Mobile counterpart
Although here Nafplio is mentioned, on the mobile counterpart of this it is not shown, although with one of the most complete sites, although mentioned since a long time here. Why? - How old is http://m.en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Peloponnese? - How m.wikivoyage is created?? - Why does it copy the content of the original wikivoyage in a selective manner??? - How come towns that were included in a later stage(by me!) are mentioned?

Drink: anything specific to Peloponnese?
Is there anything specific to Peloponnese in this?
 * Drink
 * All the classic Greek stuff. Ouzo will obviously feature heavily, as will the local wine (don't be put off by plastic bottles). For those of a hardier constitution, Metaxa (Greek brandy) can make a fine end to an evening.

I could understand if we place winery recommendations like Nemea (as recently reviewed by Wall Street Journal), but what's special about Ouzo and Metaxa?
 * You are right as long as local producers are not referenced, as Karonis Ouzo in Nafplio, Tentura in Patras, Tipota in Tripoli etc. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 62.38.157.143 (talk • contribs)

In a meanwhile, I remove this part from the article. --(WT-en) DenisYurkin 10:07, 12 November 2006 (EST)

Tripoli
The link to Tripoli is wrong. It directs to Tripoli of Lybia. —The preceding comment was added by 83.212.39.210 (talk • contribs)

 * Fixed. – (WT-en) Vidimian 13:40, 9 April 2011 (EDT)

9 "Cities", please!
This is a region article for a large region that's subdivided into 7 smaller regions. Per 7+2, only nine cities should be listed in the "Cities" section of this article. We should decide which 9 are most important and remove all the others from that section of this article (presumably starting with every red link). So which 9 should remain? Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:08, 4 July 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Peloponnese


text:
Talk:Pembroke (Ontario)

Removed this: about dmoz | report abuse/spam | help

Top: Regional: North America: Canada: Ontario: Regions: Southwestern: Localities (0)

* Ailsa Craig@ (10) * Amherstburg@ (37) * Aylmer@ (13) * Bayfield@ (29) * Bayham@ (2) * Belle River@ (10) * Blyth@ (7) * Bornholm@ (1) * Bright@ (2) * Brussels@ (6) * Clinton@ (15) * Corunna@ (10) * Crediton@ (1) * Dorchester@ (3) * Dutton@ (1) * Essex@ (13) * Exeter@ (22) * Forest@ (7) * Goderich@ (18) * Gorrie@ (1) * Grand Bend@ (28) * Granton@ (4) * Harrow@ (18) * Hensall@ (12) * Huron Park@ (2) * Ingersoll@ (38) * Kingsville@ (48) * Lakeshore@ (3) * LaSalle@ (17) * Leamington@ (47) * London@ (637)

* Lucan@ (7) * Malahide@ (1) * Newbury@ (2) Dunno why it was there. If it makes sense to you, consider outting some of it back. (WT-en) Pashley 10:59, 14 May 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Pembroke (Ontario)


text:
Talk:Penang

I think the time has come to turn Penang into a real region page and split off all attractions into subpages. George Town and Batu Ferringhi are obvious, but how about the rest? Can eg. Kek Lok Si be comfortably filed under George Town? (WT-en) Jpatokal 05:41, 19 Sep 2005 (EDT)

That would a challenging work to break it into subpages, but I would try it later. The definition of George Town is unclear, and personally I don't think Kek Lok Si should be filed under George Town. - (WV-en) Alex Lee 23:17, 19 Sep 2005 (UTC+8)

Info bar
Um. Penang is not an independent country and non-countries haven't gotten their own infobars on Wikivoyage before... I think, at the very least, the formatting should be changed to make it clear that Penang is a part of Malaysia and the redundant stuff (electricity and whatever) should be stripped out. (WT-en) Jpatokal 19:52, 7 Nov 2005 (EST)

Someone removed hotels etc
Hello, If I remember correctly there was a list of cheap hotels here. Someone has removed all of them and only Equatorial has remained. (I think I took the addresses from here before I come to malaysia)

 * Perhaps they're in the articles focusing on smaller parts of Penang? - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 22:24, 4 May 2007 (EDT)

 * See Georgetown (Malaysia) ~ 60.52.138.153 12:27, 6 May 2007 (EDT)

Taxi fares
I think it would be great if there are some information on the taxi fares from which major hotels to major attractions. Maybe a two dimension table would be gd.

island or state?
The article is confusing as it stands. It includes info on Butterworth on the mainland but it begins "Penang is an island". I think we need a separate article for the State. (WT-en) Shep 12:13, 19 February 2011 (EST)

Penang State includes both the island, Pulau Pinang, and the stretch of the mainland now known as Seberang Prai. New York state includes New York city, but most people are not confused for long.

Guide status?
Why is this article not a Guide? Is it because some of the linked articles are not Usable? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:16, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

 * Answering my own question: Yes, that's the thing that prevents this article from being a guide now. See Region guide status:

 * "Guide: Gives you different choices for which linked destinations (i.e., the 5 to 9 item cities, subregions, and other destinations lists) to visit (all usable status or better), and information on multiple attractions and things to do. Listings and layout closely match the manual of style, and all the standard sections have well-developed prose. All important ways to get in are detailed, along with some suggestions for moving out, and thorough information on getting around. At least 2–3 good-quality photos accompany the article; preferably showing famous or important attractions."

 * This is a good article and has been greatly improved lately, but it is not yet a Guide. In my next post, I will make a chart of the statuses of different linked articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:47, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Hey Ikan, I like the tables you set up below, it definitely puts the articles of Penang into perspective. I think the biggest issue is knowing where Georgetown ends and 'other areas' begin. I guess here is my two cents.

 * I think Bayan Lepas should be it's own article. Saying that, i have never really ventured around there too much, except for the airport. Though from my research, if we were going to define the borders between Georgetown and Bayan Lepas i would say the Bayan Lepas article should start after Jalan Tunku Kudin. Source: Mainly Google Maps. It would also include Batu Muang at the south-east tip of the Island, and Gelugor, basically a town mid-way between the 2 cities where the bridge is located.

 * Air Itam (Includes places like Kek Lok Si & Penang Hill) My understanding is that it is technically not within Georgetown, but where else could it go? I guess the two options are to 1) add it to Georgetown, or 2) make a stand alone article. I myself to tend towards the former, but would love a second opinion.

 * Batu Ferringhi I think the concept of also including Teluk Bahang and Tanjung Bungah is good and should be left as is. But it definitely needs work.

 * I think Balik Pulau is a fairly clear, it will essentially be the rest of the island, the 'back of the island'. Even though it is technically a town that is part of a larger back area of the island, it is the largest town in that area.

My understanding of Seberang Perai is more limited, but will give that a go in due time too DTW (talk) 03:54, 30 October 2013 (UTC)

Status chart
I've created this article status chart for reference, as all city articles need to be at least Usable before the Penang state article can be promoted to Guide.

Pulau Aman
I remembered reading about Pulau Aman a while ago, so I did a little research and found that the jetty to reach the island is located on the mainland near Simpang Ampat. Unless anyone objects i will move the information on Pulau Aman to that article. I will also fix up the description under Simpang Ampat on the Penang cities page, so as to point out that Pulau Aman can be reached from this town. Cheers. DTW (talk) 02:41, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

 * Thanks for taking care of that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:35, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

New pagebanner?
The banner is quite hazy. The photo of the view from Penang Hill is much nicer, but there are a number of different types of images that might make a good new banner. I have never made a banner and won't start now (I need to grade a slew of final papers), but perhaps some kind person might want to try making a nicer banner than the one we're using now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:41, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

 * I have had a quick go at a new banner for the Penang Page. I was worried it might be a little blurry, but i think it looks fairly good. I think it is a good image as it includes the Penang Bridge, which is the link between the two parts of the state. DTW (talk) 04:30, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

 * Perhaps slightly blurry, but it's definitely a lot better. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:52, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

 * I like it.
 * Now if we could just get a proper "drop down" horizontal table of contents (ToC) working that displays ALL the headers, I'd withdraw my objections to the current pagebanners... --118.93nzp (talk) 04:57, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Specific entries
This is the article for the entire state of Penang, and there are several articles for towns on Penang Island. There should be no specific entries on this page, such as are now in "See." Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:39, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

 * For example, these were in the "Buy" section. If any of these listings are very important, the information should be added to the mall listings in city articles and the free-standing bookstore listings should be moved to the article for the city where they're located:

Books

 * Popular Book Co., Komtar. Also has stores at Gurney Plaza, Queensbay Mall and Bukit Jambul.

 * Tan Mark Book Centre, 283 Jalan Burma.

 * MPH Book Store, Gurney Plaza, Gurney Drive.

Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:42, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

Move to city, etc.
What cities are the golf courses in? Their listings need to be moved there, with a summary left here. I also created a very brief summary in "See", which is very rough but at least a start. "Events and festivals" belong in "Do", not "See", but where they take place only in a particular place, full listings should be only in the relevant city article. Similarly, "Buy" needs to be a summary; specific malls and outdoor markets need listings in their respective city articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:39, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:52, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Seberang Jaya, Penang.jpg

title: Talk:Penang


text:
Talk:Pench National Park

Copied from article before template was applied

 * We might be able to use some of this in the article, but there is a number of problems with it as it stand; foremost is the use of first person in the text. --(WT-en) Nick 04:56, 1 July 2008 (EDT)

Though I have been selling India holiday packages for over 11 years with ease, but I was a bit unconvinced when I saw the fax from Madhya Pradesh Tourism inviting me for a nature trail in Madhya Pradesh Jungles covering Pench Tiger Reserve and Kanha National Park last week. My perception about wildlife tours reminds me of African Jungles. Having received good feedback from many happy tourists who thoroughly enjoyed the wilderness, I smugly felt Indian forest department has way to go. My trip started off with a lot of scepticism, I even mentioned my concern to Mr. Chandrasekhar from Madhya Pradesh tourism department, who was escorting us during this trip that he needs to convince me very hard in order to make me promote Indian Jungle Trails.

Our trail started when we got off the overnight Volvo coach at Nagpur. Our driver, Devraj waiting for us at the bus terminus drove us to Pench which was (95 kms) 2 hrs away. Pench is in Seoni District in Southern part of Madhya Pradesh and the reserve forest runs in continuation with Pench National Park in Maharashtra. We stopped at a petrol station enroute to have coffee. It is amazing to see that the store at the petrol station is equipped with everything from breath mints to light snacks to munch our way till we reached Pench. The road was thankfully in good condition. The drive was a bit boring for the first 20 kms, later got very interesting. We were greeted by a huge herd of cows crossing our path a couple of times. The first sight of rural India welcomes you like a breath of fresh air. Indeed the air is much lighter and gets so fresh that you could feel the difference from the stale polluted city air. The scenery started with barren land on either side spotted with some big trees and small shrubs which later turned into tall teak wood trees and was getting better for us city dwellers. I quickly noted it was the end of summer which explains the drier vegetation. I wondered how lush it would be post monsoon. Chandra told us that the parks will be closed for game viewing during monsoons and will reopen from 1st October onwards till 30th June. During monsoons the forest department takes the animal census and prepares their log records of the flora and fauna.

When we reached our resort, which was aptly named as Kipling’s Court, we were all enthusiastically looking forward to go on our afternoon Jungle Safari. The resort was clean without much fuss like the city based star hotels. The staff were pleasant, greeted us warmly before showing our rooms. The check-in was quick, as the Resort Manager Mr. Nitin was expecting us, and soon we were shown our rooms. That’s when we all realised that our mobile phones were not working. Honestly, all of us were a bit happy about the cell phones not working. We were on a real holiday close to nature and this is the best time to unwind and relax. The rooms were clean, equipped with decent furniture, a comfortable bed, clean bathroom with a shower, a dresser and a couple of chairs thrown out in the veranda overlooking the forest. The resort had 20 rooms and is equipped with a restaurant that can accommodate 50-60 persons comfortably, a mini conference hall for 35 persons, a bar and plush green forest around you. The menu was very much Indian, with limited fare underlining the fact that the resort gets their suppliers from Nagpur or Seoni. If one is planning for a mini conference, I recommend them to get their own equipment like OHP, microphone etc.

Dos and Don'ts on a Nature Trail

- Always carry batteries for your camera - Remember cell phones may not work all the time - Forget Cable TV, enjoy the nature - Wear natural colours to blend in the jungle - Carry a bug repellent - During wild encounters, don't talk, stand still retreat quietly taking backward steps - Turn the flash off your camera - Don't litter in the jungle - Do not feed wild animals - Do not get off your safari jeep inside the forest - Do not exceed speed limit of 20kmph in the forest - Never turn on music while on safari - Avoid smoking in the jungle Our Safari started at 3 pm. We used the time to quickly pay a visit to The Pench Jungle Camp which was 500mts from our resort. Mr. Atul Bhatt, Manager of the resort showed us around and offered to join us during the Safari. Having him along with the guide provided by MP tourism was quite helpful. Atul as a true naturalist told us the dos and don’ts during the safari and gave us a great deal of information about the animals and the birds we found in the jungle. The board at the entrance of the jungle with a picture of a tiger read quite aptly “You are the guest here, respect my home.” Back to my original self, I complained that I didn’t hear a single bird chirping since I came. Atul quickly asked the Gypsy driver to stop immediately.

Suddenly everything was quiet. We all could hear different birds chirping away busily, thus started our first wild encounter. I learnt how to tune myself to nature. It doesn’t require any effort at all. I just had to stop talking and start listening. Pearls of wisdom!

The total forest area was 758 sq.kms of Southern Indian tropical moist deciduous forest, has its extent mingling with the tropical dry deciduous teak. The forest area is crisscrossed by a number of streams most of which are seasonal. One such stream passed through our resort – Kipling’s Court. The predators are mainly spotted at the waterholes within the jungle. The spotted deer's, sambar's, peacocks, golden langoor's crossed our path within 10 minutes as we entered the forest area. The animals were quite oblivious of our presence. I managed to get a clear shot of a Sambar which crossed our path and gave a straight look into the lens as if posing for the picture. We were allowed take photographs without flash during the safari. We were quietly taking in the nature’s bounty, without making any noise, talking in whispers as Atul instructed us.

The predators like Tiger and Leopards are found mainly at the waterholes inside the jungle during summer. Tigers, as Atul mentioned to us that Tigers prefer to walk in clear paths and he showed us the pug marks of a few tigers that passed that way in the morning. As a prey concentration is high along the Pench River, tiger usually inhabits this belt. Leopards though generally operate in the peripheral areas but are occasionally seen in the deep forest also. Jungle cats are commonly seen. Leopard cats, small Indian civets and palm civets are common but seen rarely. We were grateful to Atul for joining us for the Safari.

Pench & Kanha Nature Trail Tips

- Best Time to visit: September to June - Accessibility: Nagpur airport/railhead is suggested - What to wear: cottons mainly, but bring light woollens for nights - Climate: 41C during summers and 3-5C during winters - Telephones: Cell phones won't work, BSNL STD booths at every20-35kms range - Food: mainly Indian, Continental breakfast - Language: Hindi mainly, English at hotels When I inquired about how safe we were in the jungle in an open topped jeep without any ammunition on us, Atul and the guide replied that none of the animals behave wildly and attack humans unless we instigate them. The animals and birds were totally at peace when we blended in. the Forest department laid out some pointers in a pamphlet (printed in Hindi) which advises us not to honk, shout, or make loud noises inside the jungle. A few other pointers were not to offer food to animals as they are self sufficient in the jungle. Even our safari vehicle has a speed limit of 20kmph so that we can enjoy a nice ride.

In 1992, Pench has been included under the umbrella of "Project Tiger" as the 19th Project Tiger Reserve. Cheetal, Sambar, Nilgai are commonly seen grazing on the open sites during the safari. We saw an amazing range of birds during our safari while our guide was rattling off the names like Racket Tailed Drongo and Red Wattled Lapwing and the like. It was difficult to remember most of the names, but the sights were visually satisfactory. Our guide informed us that there were 325 different species of birds including several migratory species which visit Pench. My thoughts about African safari were melting down slowly and I started to realise that there is no way one can compare one jungle expedition with another. The Madhya Pradesh jungles are rich in vegetation and it takes a bit of patience and diligence for a tourist to see the wild animals. The overall experience is very enriching for one who is in sync with nature while touring around Indian jungles. Though we didn’t get to see any of the 59 tigers that inhabited in the Pench, we were very happy with our first jungle expedition in Pench.

The next day I was wide awake with sounds of birds chirping away to glory at 5 a.m. That’s what I call a Nature’s Alarm clock. I checked with Mr. Nitin, Kipling’s Court Manager if it was safe to explore the buffer forest around the resort on my own so early in the morning. He gave a few pointers on the safe path and asked me to stay calm in case of any wild encounter. Armed with my camera I got some shots of the dried stream that was around our resort. There were a few mosquitoes around where I stopped at slightly wet ground. I was hoping to see some animals, but had to be happy with the innumerable chirping birds and the fresh forest scents around me. One can get lost very easily in the jungle. I realised that when I looked back to find our resort after walking for 10 minutes along the dried stream. The dry deciduous forest of Pench, just after summer was so thick that, I had to walk back to see if I was still at a safe distance from the resort. After exploring a little bit further, I realised we had a road trip to Kanha and reluctantly headed back.

Our breakfast at Kipling’s Court was sumptuous with Aloo Parathas with fresh curd with a dash of sugar. The steward politely offered us some toast and omelettes too reminding of the long drive ahead. During our meals our resort manager, Nitin filled in with some jungle lore about how the sloth bears attack women first, that the wild dog’s urine is so acidic that it blinds the prey before killing it and a few more interesting anecdotes. Some of the stories were hard to believe though.

I would say Pench needs a good 3 nights stay in order to spot most of the wild animals including the famed predators. We got a good view of spotted deer, Sambar, Nilgai, Wild boar, Golden Langoors, Peacocks, not to mention the countless birds. Our stay was only for 1 night, which was barely enough, for animal sighting. We were told that Jackals can be seen in search of food anywhere in the Park. Packs of wild dogs can be seen near Chhedia, Jamtara, Bodanala and Pyorthadi areas of the Reserve. Chinkara is present in very small numbers and is found in open areas around Turia, Telia and Dudhgaon villages. Herds of gaur can be spotted near streams and bamboo patches commonly in summer months. Sloth beer, the cuddly ‘Baloo’ of the Jungle Book, occupy hilly, rocky out crops and favour Mahul and Bel infested forest. The jungle lore makes the Sloth bear anything but cuddly. We were all wondered, why we give teddy bears to our kids when they are so ferocious. Langoors are very common whereas the Rhesus monkeys may be seen occasionally on the fringes. Pench boasts of, more than 325 species of birds that include several migratory ones also. Commonly seen are Peafowl, Red jungle fowl, Crow pheasant, Crimson Breasted Barbet, Redvented Bulbul, Racket Tailed Drongo, Magpie Robin and Lesser Whistling Teal as listed by the forest department. We got a good view of most of them.

Mahua flowers which are abundantly found in Pench are used for brewing local liquor. We were told that Sloth Bears enjoy eating Mahua flowers in full bloom and get ferocious. We could see the grin on the steward’s face when he said Pench was famous for Mahua juice, when we inquired about the local specialties while having lunch.

Though there were some interesting stories about leopards and grizzly bears attacking humans without any reason, which was quite scary, we remember Atul, manager of Pench Jungle Camp telling us ‘All animals can become ferocious, if instigated.’ We all headed back to the resort for getting some good sleep before we headed for the famous jungle of Kanha the next day.

Our trip to Kanha started at 8 AM on the next day, so that we can have a quick lunch on arrival and proceed for the much awaited Kanha Jungle Safari. The drive was pleasant with fresh mountain air. We enjoyed a light drizzle as it was the onset of monsoons. It was only when we reached half way we realised that the air-conditioning in the car wasn’t turned on. We didn’t mind at all. The long ghat roads were lined with Sal trees that grew almost 35 metres high. I remembered reading about Sal trees in school that they can live up to a 100 years under favourable conditions. Sal tree trunks were used under the railway tracks which are now thankfully replaced with concrete blocks. There were quite a few Bamboo trees too interlining Sal trees when we entered the Tropical Evergreen Forest of Kanha.

Kanha Safari Lodge in Mukki was constructed in the buffer zone operated by a mere 12 staff members. Needless to say that they multi-task very efficiently. Mr. Dandotia, the Resident Manager greeted us warmly and showed our comfortable rooms having a good view of the forest buffer zone. The Banjar River passes by the Kanha Safari Lodge and a 1.6 kms path is laid for tourists along the river into the jungle for a relaxing trek. The trek path is lined with informative boards that give much valued details about the flora and fauna found in Kanha.

Buffer zone forest has a few sparsely populated villages. The forest department has been working on relocating the villagers to a safer zone to protect forest. Incidentally we were also informed by Mr. Dandotia that Kanha or Kanhar itself is a village name which was located inside the reserve forest. The locals were clearing the forest for cultivation which endangered the wildlife. The Forest department successfully relocated the entire village outside the jungle and made the reserve forest hospitable for wildlife. Kanha also derives its name for the famous Kanva Sage, the foster father of the beautiful dame of Indian mythology, Sakuntala, who the locals believe lived in the Kanha jungle. I was also a trifle amused at the way my trip that started as a nature trail eventually tweaked Indian mythological roots as well.

There is a fine ecological balance at both Pench and Kanha which made the flora and fauna self sustaining without much intervention by forest department. The MP state Forest department had done an impressive job in protecting the reserve forests. I noticed this during the Kanha Safari. Apart from relocating villages from the forest area, they have taken up many responsibilities like World Food Programme, helping the locals in preservation and recreation of forests. The Forest department also harvests the teak and Bamboo on a regular basis to maintain the ecological balance. This normally happens in the months of September and October every year.

Our guide for the Safari was well trained, who is responsible for stopping the tourists from getting off the vehicle, littering, instigating animals etc. Though they speak little English the guides can rattle off the botanical names of all the trees and the animal species. If one wants more insightful details on the names and animal habits, they can hire a naturalist from the Safari entrance gate to go along with them.

Unlike Pench, Kanha Jungle had more visitors as the area is much bigger and spreads up to 1,945 sq kms, which also envelopes the Kanha Tiger Reserve. Our Safari started a little after 4 pm. We found too many safari vehicles in front of us making our game viewing a bit difficult. My colleague John was very concerned that we may not get to see the predators with so many tourists around. One of the interesting things we learnt in Kanha Safari is that the safari guides do not carry any walkie-talkies as it will allow them to communicate with other guides in case the predators like leopard or tiger are spotted, making a beeline of tourists around the predators. Not a good idea. However there are some rules on communication when you are inside the forest. Our guide was quite handy is checking the fresh pug marks of the tiger, estimating the time when they were made, and leading us to a waterhole where we can spot the beast. He is also trained in identifying the call for help given out by spotted deer, with specific direction it is coming from and let the driver take us there. The guide is allowed to whistle to inform other guides when he spots a predator. The forest guards are located at a distance of 5 kms from each other inside the reserve forest. In case of any unfortunate event of accidents happening to tourists or if the safari vehicle develops a glitch, the guide will take the tourists by walk to the nearest forest guard for help. In case of any serious injury to a person who cannot walk the guide leaves the driver and the person injured in the vehicle and takes the rest of the tourists to the forest guard. This info given by our safari guide was a bit relieving and we were assured that the forest department has laid some clear procedures that are followed in dire circumstances.

We were a bit surprised when Mr. Dandotia, our resort’s manager mentioned to us that many tourists visit Kanha for just seeing the predators. However I beg to differ, so does the rest of our team, as it was very thrilling for us to spot even a jungle pea fowl or a bunch of Langoors along the path. Everything is beautiful and pristine in wilderness. We were least bothered about the phone connections, email or even the food that was served to us. The food was good though the menu had limited options at Kanha Safari Lodge.

Our three- day adventure ended with a relaxing jungle trek around Banjar River on 24th June early morning, followed by a filling breakfast. Reluctantly we bid good bye to the jungles in the Heart of India and hit the road. Once again we were lapping up the last bits of the nature on our way back. By 2 pm we stopped at Highway Treat for lunch. This is again one of the Madhya Pradesh Tourism property offering 4 modest cottages and a nice way side restaurant. Developed by a passionate IAS officer, Mr. Rajan, this place is ideal for tourists who wish to stop by for a quick meal before driving to Nagpur. We were greeted by some biking enthusiasts who stopped on their way for a bite, which explains the popularity of a no nonsense wayside retreat. We met a family who stopped by for lunch. I could see their 5 year old kid shriek with pleasure when he found a caterpillar crawling on the path. The Highway Treat has a unique attraction – a 714 year old Banyan tree in its premises. We got some quick photographs taken of the Banyan tree’s tender roots shooting down. We got all we wanted in this trip, respite from city life, far from madding crowd, nature’s bounty and a closer look at the “Heart of India”. I erased the idea of comparing Indian jungle trail with the African safaris totally. When I mentioned that to Chandrasekhar, I could see him smile which meant ‘piece of cake’.

title: Talk:Pench National Park


text:
Talk:Pender Island

Map
(WT-en) Kmax added the following map. (WT-en) Texugo 10:26, 17 March 2010 (EDT)
 * PDF map of Pender Island A free high resolution, zoomable, searchable, interactive map of Pender Island can be found here.

title: Talk:Pender Island


text:
Talk:Penedo

I didn't get why the outline status was removed. I'm putting it back, then. (WT-en) Rmx 11:45, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * If we can get one or two addresses on those hotel listings, I'd say this was usable. --(WT-en) Evan 11:48, 18 Jan 2006 (EST)

(WV-en) I have created a Portuguese version of this page. Anyone editing here, please, also insert the extra information in the Portuguese version at http://pt.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Penedo

title: Talk:Penedo


text:
Talk:Pengerang

Great link for research: http://pengerang-johor.blogspot.com (WT-en) Jpatokal 11:34, 2 January 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Pengerang


text:
Talk:Penmaenpool

is the pic in fair use or move to better size? clarification would be nice. --72.73.70.12 06:23, 14 May 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Penmaenpool


text:
Talk:Pennacook Valley

Comments
I am trying to get this done properly, but it keeps getting deleted. The actual name of the region is River Valley, but someone has claimed that name already in reference to the Kennebec and Moose River Valleys. Pennacook Valley is a name that many in the area don't approve of as it refers to the original name of one of the towns. I would prefer to have the guy mis-using the River Valley designation change to the proper designation and let us use the River Valley designation as we have been in the real world for a while.

If this is not in the right spot, please fix it and leave me a redirect. (WT-en) KevinNSaisi 03:56, 28 January 2008 (EST)

 * Suggest you also comment at Talk:River Valley (Maine) as it's a little more complicated than usual because the Image:MaineRegionsMap.gif map will also need to be revised. ~ 203.144.143.4 04:02, 28 January 2008 (EST)

 * I moved River Valley (Maine) to Kennebec and Moose River Valleys. After it redirects to the latter you can click back to it from the top and edit it. I may be able to redo the map. Will check when I can. -- (WT-en) OldPine 17:26, 6 February 2008 (EST)

Counties
Which counties are entirely within this region, and which (if any) counties are partly within this region? ~ 203.144.143.4 04:53, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Is this region the same as Oxford County, or entirely within Oxford County? ~ 203.144.143.6 05:12, 28 January 2008 (EST)

 * The region consists of 11 towns, one of which is in Franklin County, the remainder of which are in Oxford County, but do not encompass the whole county. (WT-en) KevinNSaisi 05:15, 28 January 2008 (EST)

 * Thanks. Which town is in Franklin County? I checked with Wikipedia and I thought it said all the ones currently listed (10) were in Oxford County. ~ 58.8.14.22 05:39, 28 January 2008 (EST)

 * Carthage is in Franklin County. I don't know where you looked on Wikipedia. In Maine each county consists of a variety of regions. I live in the River Valley Region. The greater Norway area is the Oxford Hills Region. I believe it consists of towns in three counties. While these are not political sub-divisions, they are economic regions. We also have school districts which are being forced to merge under order of the state government. Some if these super-school districts will cover portions of multiple counties as well. Just because we don't do things the way others do, doesn't make us wrong, just different. By the way, we have one village that is in not only two separate towns, but two separate counties (East Dixfield, Maine). (WT-en) KevinNSaisi 08:09, 28 January 2008 (EST)

i think eat and drink should stay due to policy of wikivoyage --(WT-en) Lone.guner 20:34, 29 January 2008 (EST)
 * Thanks. Wikipedia does have Carthage as being in Franklin County - I looked in the right place, just didn't look carefully enough. ~ 203.144.143.6 08:26, 28 January 2008 (EST)

Template question
moved to here from User talk:203.144.143.4 following these edits:

If you cannot put food and drink establishments on regional pages, why is there a place for them?? For that matter, why even have some other categories? It seems foolish to have categories that cannot be used. 130.111.8.110 20:34, 29 January 2008 (EST)

 * Please see Project:Region article template and Project:Region article template, and of course the rest of that policy page for all the others. ~ 203.144.143.4 02:20, 30 January 2008 (EST)

title: Talk:Pennacook Valley


text:
Talk:Pennsylvania

I took out the Author section of this article. See Project:first person pronouns for more info. --(WT-en) Evan 12:02, 17 Dec 2003 (PST)

I took out the section "Local Travel Guides", as I don't understand what it means. The Cities and Regions sections point to travel guides for cities and regions of Pennsylvania, respectively. --(WT-en) Evan 17:36, 28 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Region breakdown

We need some regions for this state; VisitPA (the state tourist site) has this breakdown, and Open Directory has this one. Should we try to put together something similar? --(WT-en) Evan 17:34, 13 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * Oh yikes! This regions section did not develop well, and the existing regions overlap significantly. I suppose they'll need to be merged/deleted into a sensible breakdown. I'll put up a suggestion map soon, but I don't really know too much about the state & could use help—any locals have suggestions? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:12, 6 March 2008 (EST)

 * Actually, here's an obscure PA regions breakdown, which I rather like. I'd be tempted to split off portions of the "Endless Mts" and "Susquehanna Valley" to preserve the "Coal Region," but otherwise this looks like a passable breakdown—any thoughts? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:18, 6 March 2008 (EST)

 * OK, here's a draft regions map. Perhaps the names should change a bit? And I don't like that I've left Lehigh Valley in there, but I don't know what else to do with it. Could it be merged with the Delaware Valley? Any other thoughts on this draft breakdown? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 00:45, 6 March 2008 (EST)

 * bump --(WT-en) Peter Talk 05:06, 4 June 2008 (EDT)

 * Well, speaking as someone who's been to Eastern PA all of three times, and even then just passing through, my completely uneducated opinion is that the two valleys can be combined. I don't think The Lehigh Valley (Allentown area, I guess) is far enough from Philadelphia to be a separate destination.  The only other comment I would have is that the Pittsburgh region looks weighted northwest, given the location of the city; it seems like parts of the neighboring counties south and west would be part of the area.  (WT-en) LtPowers 12:16, 4 June 2008 (EDT)
 * I asked my wife, who's from PA, and she agreed that the Pittsburgh and Vicinity region should include the eastern and southern suburbs outside Allegheny County. (WT-en) LtPowers 15:32, 10 June 2008 (EDT)

So the more I think about it, the more I think VisitPA got it right:. I know we don't usually go with the states' tourism definitions, but I think in this case they've got it pegged. (The names they chose are cheesy, though, and can be changed.) I know Peter liked the Coal Region, but I'm not sure how useful it is to the traveler. (WT-en) LtPowers 09:13, 1 August 2008 (EDT)

 * Those do look pretty good. They also mean more work in reorganizing the existing regions, but I'll deal with it. I've updated the map, and if the divisions look right, I'll move ahead with this. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 04:29, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
 * I don't like "Great Lakes Region" (it's a little generic, not clearly Pennsylvanian, and even a bit pretentious for 30 miles of shoreline along Lake Erie), but it's better than "Northwest Pennsylvania" and I don't have a better suggestion. Maybe "Lake Erie Region"?  Or even "Erie Region" (since the main city in the area is Erie)?  Anyway, I'd be happy to work on reorganizing the regions if you'd rather not.  =)  (WT-en) LtPowers 08:40, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

 * Sounds good to me! If you want to start hitting the regions, I'll upload a new png (and an updated svg) in the next couple hours. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 12:52, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

 * The task is done, at least I think so. Linkage was inconsistent at best, so I may have missed some regions or destinations that were linked to their regions only via the "IsIn" template (such links don't show up in "What links here").  Poconos and Endless Mountains needs some heavy revision; I tried to leave the Coal Region as a subregion, but now the main article reads awkwardly, and some destinations may be missing.  Philadelphia Region and Pennsylvania Wilds are stubs.  (WT-en) LtPowers 19:46, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

 * Yeah, the new regions need to get fleshed out (mainly the 9 cities/other destinations sections). If my insomnia keeps up, I'll take a second crack at it tonight. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:12, 11 August 2008 (EDT)

Shuylkill Expwy
I removed the joke about calling the Schuylkill expressway the 'sure kill' expressway. Nobody locally calls it that except to mock the non local people that call it that. Also added the part about staying out of the left hand lane. It's always people from NJ and DE going 55 in the left hand lane on highways, arrrrg. --(WT-en) edg126 14:52, 10 Apr 2007 (EST)

Eat Section?
Their is no actual eating listing here its just names of foods. --(WT-en) Norvak 15:14, 23 December 2008 (EST)
 * That's right; we put listings in articles for cities, not in regional articles. Regional articles should talk about what types of food are available, and only mention specific restuarants if a traveler to the region would definitely not want to miss eating there.  See Project:Region article template for details.  (WT-en) LtPowers 15:44, 23 December 2008 (EST)

State College and region borders
VisitPA.com has State College (which is in Centre County, the big one right in the middle of the state) in the Alleghenies and Susquehanna region, but by our definition all of Centre County is in the Pennsylvania Wilds region. VisitPA draws the line between the two regions right through Centre County rather than following the county border. I have no opinion either way, so I'm soliciting others here: in which region should we place State College? (WT-en) LtPowers 11:58, 29 December 2008 (EST)

State College itself is located in the "ridge and valley" section of Pennsylvania on the east side of the Alleghenies. I think it is much more appropriate in the Alleghenies and Susquehanna Valley region. (WT-en) Danwxman 16:23, 4 March 2009 (EST)

9 Cities
Would anyone object to dropping State College in favor of Erie? State College offers nothing for tourists aside from Penn State University. Erie, on the other hand, is one of Pennsylvania's most popular tourist spots. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 19:13, 8 October 2009 (EDT)
 * Sounds like a good idea to me.  (WT-en) LtPowers 20:26, 8 October 2009 (EDT)

 * I'd sooner drop Williamsport. Penn State gets a ton of visitors from all over the country during football season. We could also consider axing both Gettysburg and Hershey in the cities section and resurrect their main attractions (the battlefield and the theme park) in the OD section—I don't believe that either city/town is very notable for anything other than being next to those attractions. That would help fill out the OD list, and allow us to squeeze in another PA city (Altoona? Bethlehem? York?). But in any rate, I agree that Erie should be in the list. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 20:33, 8 October 2009 (EDT)

 * I must have been in the process of removing State College while you wrote this. I have no problem with dropping Williamsport. Gettysburg is so historical, I don't think it should be cut. I do like Hershey, but I would be willing to drop it. If Hershey were moved out, what do you think about Lancaster? I haven't been there, but it's quite famous as a destination for those interested in the Amish. Since Pennsylvania itself is well known for being home of the Amish, perhaps adding Lancaster would showcase the broader spectrum of Pennsylvania "culture"? (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 20:55, 8 October 2009 (EDT)
 * I dunno about Williamsport. If we're just looking at numbers, sure, the Nittany Lions outdraw Little League.  But lots of places have big college football stadiums; Williamsport is at least unique in its singular attraction.  I would support moving Gettysburg to the Other Destinations section, but not Hershey.  (WT-en) LtPowers 11:49, 9 October 2009 (EDT)

 * I've moved Hershey and Gettysburg to OD to show what my intent was. But since we obviously don't have consensus for that change, please feel free to revert.

 * Lancaster strikes me as a good addition. And LtPowers, why not move Hershey? As a census-designated place of 12,000, I think it's hardly an important urban destination in its own right. Heck, I'm pretty sure I stayed in Lebanon when I went to the park—I never even entered Hershey the town. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:40, 9 October 2009 (EDT)

 * It had never crossed my mind to link to the page from the attraction (Hersheypark) rather than the city, but I think it looks good! Certainly Hersheypark is the only reason why Hershey is an important Pennsylvania destination. I had just assumed you were going to move Gettysburg and Hershey as they were, but I think the list represents Pennsyvlania much better now! (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 23:57, 9 October 2009 (EDT)
 * Hershey also has probably the most celebrated and most successful AHL team, as much as it pains me as a Rochesterian to say that. =)  That's the main reason I'm reluctant to say that the theme park is the only thing there.  (Also, I believe Hersheypark and Hershey's Chocolate World are technically two separate attractions.)  There's also the "wording test" that has been mentioned before: does someone say "I'm going to Hersheypark" or "I'm going to Hershey"?  In my experience, it's the latter.   (WT-en) LtPowers 16:43, 10 October 2009 (EDT)

 * Therein lies the disagreement. My experience is the opposite—I've never even heard of someone visiting Hershey in any other context than "I'm going to Hersheypark," but of course I'm not actually from the area. But mostly I like this solution as it helps us fill out the OD list a bit more, and allows other cities like Williamsport and Lancaster a place in the lists. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:41, 10 October 2009 (EDT)

 * Yeah, it's really borderline. When one says "I'm going to Hershey" most people will assume one is going to go to the amusement park and to Chocolate World.  I guess I'm okay with the philosophy as stated, although couldn't the same apply to State College?  Anyway, it'd be nice to have some native Pennsylvanians weigh in.  (WT-en) LtPowers 22:09, 10 October 2009 (EDT)

 * I'm actually a "native". lol. Most people I know say "Hershey", but as you've stated, it is synonymous with Hershey Park. I've never heard anyone mention going to Hershey for any other reason (I didn't)... As for State College, it is similar. The only reason people go there is to see the games or attend college. They have a well known ice cream shop, too, but I don't think many people go all the way there just for that. I don't think State College would be missed if dropped. The other proposed places (York, Altoona, Bethlehem) are not bad choices. But concerning the move of Hershey and Gettysburg, I don't imagine it being a big deal for other Pennsylvanians. It doesn't mean that there is nothing to see in the city; it just highlights the most popular and widely known attraction. I think it works in allowing us to feature more cities, as Peter states. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 22:36, 10 October 2009 (EDT)

OK, after talking with my wife, who's from PA, I'm more strongly of the opinion that Hershey belongs in the Cities section, probably in place of State College. If we want to talk about destinations with only one thing to do, it's Happy Valley, not Hershey, that we should be talking about. The only reason for non-students to go to State College is to go to Beaver Stadium for a game, whereas Hershey has the amusement park, Chocolate World, the Milton Hershey museum, Hotel Hershey (with its spa featuring chocolate treatments), Hershey Bears hockey, and a zoo. I agree it's not a lot, but it's a lot more than State College has. (WT-en) LtPowers 19:45, 12 October 2009 (EDT)

 * Either way works for me. Replacing State College is a good move, though. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 20:25, 13 October 2009 (EDT)

Fireworks
This is my first-ever wiki edit of any kind, so please check it over...

I made 2 spelling corrections and updated the fireworks part of the "Stay Safe" section. PA laws are kinda funny about fireworks and that part had erroneous information. (WT-en) VideoGuy 06:15 21 July 2010

 * Looks good! (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 23:13, 23 July 2010 (EDT)

Other Destinations
I'm tempted to replace Lehigh Valley with Thousand Islands; the latter seems like more of a tourist destination to me. Thoughts? (WT-en) LtPowers 15:20, 20 January 2011 (EST)

 * Thousand Islands is in New York, so I don't think it deserves any mention in the Pennsylvania article. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 16:53, 20 January 2011 (EST)

 * Yeah, I thought I put this on Talk:Mid-Atlantic. Not sure how I ended up here.  (WT-en) LtPowers 08:59, 21 January 2011 (EST)

Does Raccoon Creek State Park deserve a place in the "Other Destinations" list over other state parks? I'd like to either drop it or start a page for it. Nathant408 (talk) 00:39, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Do we have any other state parks with articles? LtPowers (talk) 01:56, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Valley of Fire State Park came to mind first, but I'm sure there are others. Just a matter of how large the park is, and whether it's overwhelmingly day-use only. --Peter Talk 06:46, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes, I meant in Pennsylvania -- that is, one that we could replace the redlinked Raccoon Creek with.  LtPowers (talk) 19:53, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Williamsport
For some reason Williamsport isPartOf Alleghenies and Susquehanna Valley, but according to our state map, it should be in Pennsylvania Wilds. VisitPA.com, on which our regional breakdown was based, agrees. Powers (talk) 21:08, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

 * I've moved it to Pennsylvania Wilds now. -- Ryan • (talk) • 23:21, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

 * The original author of the A&SV article (which was then just Susquehanna Valley) used a very expansive definition, even including Harrisburg and Hershey, which are firmly in the Dutch Country region. Williamsburg likewise slipped through when I renamed the region to include the Alleghenies. Unfortunately, much of the prose in that article was written with the assumption that Williamsburg and Harrisburg were the two major population centers in the region, which renders much of that text useless. Powers (talk) 14:11, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Needed work
Pennsylvania is a state I like, though my visits so far have been mostly limited to Philadelphia, with a couple of stays in Harrisburg and some travel through Northeastern Pennsylvania (however, I figure to visit Pittsburgh in January). I was unhappy with the absence of images other than the pagebanner, so I added several, but others who know all the nooks and crannies of the state better than I might want to select some other ones (for example, I looked at images of Gettysburg, and it looks like a nice town but I wasn't sure what to add and didn't add anything from there). I was surprised that there was no "Sleep" section: I think that's needed in an article about a state. I put a photo of a classic Pittsburgh hotel in that section and added some general remarks, but would someone who knows better please give a good general overview of accommodations in Pennsylvania? Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:23, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
 * For Gettysburg pictures, how about https://www.flickr.com/photos/22711505@N05/7673334480 or https://www.flickr.com/photos/22711505@N05/7119539701 ? Powers (talk) 01:42, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Very nice, both of them but especially the 2nd one. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:53, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * I've never uploaded a photo from Flickr to Commons. I tried following the guidelines at Commons' instructions on uploading Flickr files, and I got the following error message: "The file you uploaded seems to be empty." Do you know how to do this? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:26, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Which tool did you try to use? Powers (talk) 18:17, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Flinfo. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:21, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Hm, it seems to be working okay for me. Maybe your download of the file didn't work properly. Powers (talk) 00:24, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I tried to transfer the file without first downloading it onto my computer. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:11, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, Flinfo can't do that, AFAIK. You can use one of the other tools, but Magnus' tool requires an authorization process (so that it can upload using your account), while the Upload Wizard requires you to be an admin or image-reviewer. I'm an admin, so I can just use the Upload Wizard. Powers (talk) 02:48, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
 * You're an admin on Commons? Excellent, and thank you! Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:26, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I wasn't actually volunteering, though I can do it if you'd like. Powers (talk) 01:36, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
 * It would improve the article if we could put a good photo of the battlefield site at Gettysburg on it, so yeah, it would be great if you could do this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:56, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
 * File:Gettysburg National Military Park 2012 - Union General Gouverneur Warren on Little Round Top.jpg. I would recommend you apply on Commons for reviewer status; it's simple and allows you to upload images from Flickr without them being tagged for review by a trusted editor. Powers (talk) 03:00, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, Powers. I'm not sure about applying for reviewer status because it commits me to spending some time reviewing licenses, and I'm not sure whether I want to commit to that at this time. I'll definitely think it over, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:27, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know if it actually requires such a commitment. If you were honest about mainly using it to upload pre-reviewed images you might be fine. Still, your decision. Powers (talk) 15:01, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Banner contest
The current banner would be great for the Amish and Mennonites article. Here are some new banners, which can also be considered for their local destination articles. /Yvwv (talk) 02:22, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

 * I prefer 4 and 2. The scene of 1 isn't really unique to Pennsylvania, and so is three and 0 looks somewhat boring. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:27, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 2, 5 and 4. Current banner is not bad, but the article about Amish has a bad banner, and could benefit from getting the current banner (0) from this page. 1 could look like any place on Earth, and 3 also don't like it.--Onwa (talk) 05:11, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Picked banner 5 provisionally, and used banner 0 for Amish and Mennonites. My personal favorite as it contains the state's greatest river, typical natural scenery, and industrial heritage. /Yvwv (talk) 09:38, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * My preferences are: 0, 2, 4, 3, 1, 5. They're all good, but 0 is so clear. And while Amish people are not unique to Pennsylvania, the state is well known for them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:07, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * See Talk:Coal Region for another contest. /Yvwv (talk) 10:09, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * ... and Talk:Niagara Falls, concerning the many articles related to the Falls. /Yvwv (talk) 11:27, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Do note that #5 is last on my list for the banner candidates for this article, so I don't see how it gets even a preliminary consensus of any kind. It seems to me, with #2 having one 1st-place vote and two 2nd-place votes, it wins for now. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:26, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Point taken. I used #2 for Pennsylvania Dutch Country to replace a clearly inferior banner. Those banners are switched now. /Yvwv (talk) 14:56, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 * What's wrong with Candidate 0 for Pennsylvania Dutch Country? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:25, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 * It was a close-up of a building that is neither unique or world famous. Can be considered for Lancaster County, as well. /Yvwv (talk) 10:58, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
 * But it captures a scene that's more typical of Amish life, right? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:48, 10 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Here is the previous banner for Pennsylvania Dutch Country. In my opinion it gives undue promotion of a specific business. /Yvwv (talk) 09:40, 11 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I understand your point of view on this, yes. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:45, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

I still prefer 0. All of the others are dull to me. The landscapes are very generic, and the state capitol is not at all iconic. Harrisburg may be the capital, but nobody thinks of it when they think of PA, especially in terms of travel. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 05:51, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I've been to Harrisburg a couple of times and consider the Capitol beautiful, but I agree that it's far from being the major tourist draw in a state with Philadelphia, Pittsburgh and Northeastern Pennsylvania. However, we could really do a lot worse. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:40, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * All banner replacements are provisional. Could we find a new great banner specifically for Amish and Mennonites? /Yvwv (talk) 10:50, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Listings
We need to not have templated listings at the state level. If you have the time and inclination, please help remove them, leaving summaries with links to the appropriate city (or park, whatever) bottom-level articles. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:10, 16 July 2022 (UTC)

PA regions discussion 2022

 * Was "Lehigh Valley"
 * [Discussion moved from User talk:ThunderingTyphoons!]

The Lehigh Valley is not part of the Philadelphia region, which is defined as the Delaware Valley and includes many counties in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Delaware, and even Maryland but none in the Lehigh Valley. I'd be curious what leads you to think otherwise. Let me know why you feel it should not be presented in that way. Keystone18 (talk) 18:19, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

 * If you don't mind my commenting: I don't think it is, either, but regional structure isn't changed unilaterally. Please state your case at Talk:Philadelphia Region, where you'll see I already attempted to start a discussion. We need for it to play out before taking any action related to Pennsylvania regions, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:29, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

 * (ironic edit conflict) Hi . Categories here don't work like on Wikipedia where you can group articles by multiple themes (e.g. an article about a song can be in a genre category, an artist category, a year category etc). On Wikivoyage, categories are dictated by the geographical hierarchy we use to organise articles. The Lehigh Valley article is currently organised under Philadelphia Region, which is organised under Pennsylvania, which is under Mid-Atlantic, and so on. That means category:Lehigh Valley has to be organised the same way, part of category:Philadelphia Region, which is part of category:Pennsylvania, etc...
 * I have no opinion on the "correct" place in the hierarchy for Lehigh Valley (subtext: I don't really care. I do care that this site works the way it's supposed to, however). As a local, you have a much better idea than I do, and perhaps you can persuade people it should be changed. But I think already explained to you that if the LV article was changed to cover the whole region across state borders, it would have to be moved out of the hierarchy and become an extrahierarchical region, because the hierarchy used for US articles is organised around the state system. That generally works well, but it makes things awkward for cross-border towns and regions.
 * Coming here from Wikipedia in 2013, I remember thinking the "breadcrumb" geographical hierarchy of articles was very strange, so I appreciate it will take some getting used to for you.
 * Please go ahead and propose any changes you think should be made to the hierarchy around LV; I won't try to push back. Just know that the categories will only be changed if the article hierarchy changes. All the best --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 21:44, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't know much about Pennsylvania, but I will note that our definition of "Philadephia Region" includes the Delaware Valley, Lehigh Valley and Berks County. If "Philadelphia Region" is confusing terminology, then maybe we can find a better name for it. Would "Greater Philadelphia Region" work better? Or maybe "Southeastern Pennsylvania"? Ground Zero (talk) 21:56, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The Lehigh Valley is more central eastern than southeastern, so I'm not sure. What do you think, Keystone18? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:20, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * If the structure is rigid according to source materials like the Census, etc., it is a stand-alone region that should be included under Pennsylvania. That's what I would suggest. To list it under Philadelphia when it is not part of that region (the Delaware Valley) seems to be recreating the geographic facts. Whatever is done, though, should be consistent. Keystone18 (talk) 23:53, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * The structure is not rigid, nor is the census necessarily relevant; it should be whatever is most useful to travelers and to readers, and to change it, we need to have a discussion on a talk page that's not a user talk page and come to agreement. I might be persuadable that the Lehigh Valley could stand alone as a region, but I'm not sure whether I would be. Maybe Talk:Pennsylvania is the best place to discuss this. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:58, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd list the Lehigh Valley as a stand alone category within "Regions" on the Pennsylvania page and remove it as a category within the Philadelphia region. Keystone18 (talk) 00:43, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Our regional breakdown is very close to the one used by the PA Visitors Network. Instead of "Philadelphia Region", it has "Philadelphia—Lehigh Valley", which does not include Berks Co. Berks is included in Dutch Country. And Schuylkill is included in Poconos and Mountains instead of Susquehanna Valley. The map I linked is a tourism map, not a census map, so it is much more relevant to the work we are doing here. Wikivoyage is a travel guide, not an encyclopedia, and we should always remember that. Ground Zero (talk) 00:56, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Could we do that renaming from "Philadelphia Region" to "Philadelphia—Lehigh Valley"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:38, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * We include Berks County in that, whereas PA Visitors puts in in Dutch Country, but I'll leave it to the local experts to decide if that's okay. We would need the assistance of someone who can draw maps if we make any chances to the region structure or nomenclature. Ground Zero (talk) 02:08, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I can help with the maps (both static and dynamic maps) if needed, though I'll be a bit busy in the next month or two (I usually need 2-3 hours to make one without any interruptions). Unfortunately, I can't really help with the region boundaries itself as I've never been to Pennsylvania before, but I'll be able to make a map if you give me the wikidata items for each region (see New South Wales or Southeastern New South Wales as examples). I don't really like the layout of the current static map so I might redo the map from scratch when I get to it. Give me a ping once the region boundaries have been sorted out. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 02:47, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't have an opinion about Berks County, except that it redirects to Reading (Pennsylvania), which is almost half way from Philadelphia to Harrisburg (slightly closer to Philly). I've never visited Reading and haven't even ridden the train through it, as the train doesn't serve that city. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:52, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

So, what should we do? Option 1 is the easiest, but that may not be the right answer. Ground Zero (talk) 18:48, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
 * 1) Should we just rename "Philadelphia Region" as "Philadelphia—Lehigh Valley"? or
 * 2) Should we do that and move Berks County (Reading) to Dutch Country? or
 * 3) Do something else?
 * We could do both 1 and 2, thus following the official tourist information website. "Moving Berks County" is really just rerouting a redirect.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 18:58, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Not quite, as the regions map would also have to be edited. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:16, 30 July 2022 (UTC)
 * My proposal was make Lehigh Valley its own stand-alone region within Pennsylvania and then to include all Lehigh and Northampton County cities and towns in Lehigh Valley. Keystone18 (talk) 03:06, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Coal Region, which is already a page, should also be a sub category in Pennsylvania and include Carbon, Lackawanna, Luzerne, Northumberland, and Schuylkill Counties. Keystone18 (talk) 03:11, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Do you mean a subregion? It already is, and there is no such thing as a subcategory on Wikivoyage, to my knowledge. Just eyeballing the current regions of the state, if the Lehigh Valley were a region by itself, it would be by far the smallest region in the state, but I think you want to make it larger, so why don't you make a map and show us how you propose to divide the state. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:19, 31 July 2022 (UTC)
 * These are the regions (what I called a sub category) that exist currently under Pennsylvania:
 * Alleghenies and Susquehanna Valley
 * Erie Region
 * Pennsylvania Dutch Country
 * Pennsylvania Wilds
 * Philadelphia Region
 * Pittsburgh Region
 * Poconos and Endless Mountains
 * What I'm suggesting it that the Lehigh Valley be removed from Philadelphia and Coal Region be removed from Poconos and both be added as individual categories with the seven above (making nine in total). Perhaps there are other regions beyond these nine. But the Lehigh Valley is not part of the Philadelphia Region and the Coal Region is not part of the Poconos. Including them as such is really only confusing a reader about the state's geographic regions. Keystone18 (talk) 19:41, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I see. Yeah, that makes some sense to me, but does it leave other regions disproportionately large in area, and is that a problem or not? Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:03, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Generally we prefer to keep lists of regions to 7 items plus or minus 2, i.e., between 5 and 9. We have 7 now. If we add Lehigh Valley and Coal Region, we'd be at the maximum 9. Unless there is a good reason why Pennsylvania should be an exception to this rule, we should consider which 9 would be the most relevant to travellers, and then keep other as subregions of these regions. Ground Zero (talk) 21:11, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Right, but if having 10 or 11 regions instead of 9 would be of more use to travelers, that would be worth considering. Anyway, let's see how Keystone18 reacts to my questions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:05, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This is a big picture question that probably needs to be addressed throughout the site. My best input on it: 1. It needs to be accurate. If, for instance, the Coal Region is not part of the Poconos (which it isn't), it should not be listed as part of it. Yet such examples exist in abundance through the site. I suggest using the geographic definitions of Wikipedia, especially since these two projects are connected. Here is how they divide Pennsylvania: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_Pennsylvania. I also would solve this issue sooner rather than later. As time-consuming as its resolution might be now, it will be more so months or years from now. I'll keep thinking about it too and share any better ideas that come to mind. One non-starter: Wikivoyage should not be making up these geographic divisions. Find a definitive source (if not Wikipedia, something else) and then stick to it religiously. Keystone18 (talk) 20:09, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
 * A couple of reactions: (1) Wikipedia has four regions for Pennsylvania. (2) It has 15 subregions, and we are never going to have 15 top-level regions for Pennsylvania. (3) We are not going to follow Wikipedia all the time, because an encyclopedia is not set up according to the principle that the traveler comes first. So can you please clarify how many regions you are suggesting we have and what your traveler-centered reasons are for the division you propose to use here? Thanks. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:48, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I saw those four regions for Pennsylvania (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_Pennsylvania) and that would be one option, which means following Wikipedia's geographic definitions to these regions for states (and other countries). Nothing to wrong with that in my view. If there is a better external source than Wikipedia, as there may be, use that as the defining source. My one strong view is that these regions should not just be thrown into categories because they look close enough by estimate and are not formally defined as being part of them. The good news is that these definitions already formally exist and do not require any subjective assessment by Wikivoyage, as was done on Pennsylvania when regions were just thrown into areas because they were the closest available option but were not technically part of those regions. My view: Find a standard source that is reliable and functional for Wikivoyage and then stick to it. Just don't allow these things to be inaccurately defined. Hope this is helpful. I feel sometimes like I'm raising difficult policy questions, and I really just want to be helpful here :). Thanks! Keystone18 (talk) 19:51, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I am going to repost what I wrote on July 23:
 * Our regional breakdown is very close to the one used by the PA Visitors Network. Instead of "Philadelphia Region", it has "Philadelphia—Lehigh Valley", which does not include Berks Co. Berks is included in Dutch Country. And Schuylkill is included in Poconos and Mountains instead of Susquehanna Valley. The map I linked is a tourism map, not a census map, so it is much more relevant to the work we are doing here. Wikivoyage is a travel guide, not an encyclopedia, and we should always remember that. Ground Zero (talk) 00:56, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Aside from the minor differences, this is a better external source than Wikipedia, and is very definitely not "regions... just thrown into categories because they look close enough by estimate".
 * If there is a better tourism source available than PA Visitors Network, we could look at that. I haven't found any. Ground Zero (talk) 20:16, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Lehigh Valley is not part of the Philadelphia region. Coal Region is not part of the Poconos. And I have stumbled across many other inaccuracies. The critical reader who sees these regions not even properly categorized in the right geographic regions is going to either not read much further, or if they do they are going to do so viewing the entire article skeptically. It's not close when one source has Philadelphia-Lehigh Valley (accurate) and the other places the Lehigh Valley in the Philadelphia region (inaccurate). There is literally nothing comparable about those two things. One has it right. This here has it wrong. These things aren't really subjective, and people don't view them as subjective. There are formal definitions. Sometimes they may vary modestly but a definitive source needs to be picked and followed. It's not a travel guide when the region someone is researching is placed literally in the wrong geographic region. At that point, it becomes literally misleading. Seems to me this is one of a few foundational facts that needs to be taken seriously if the site itself is to be taken seriously. Not trying to be confrontational, but I could not feel more strongly that there needs to be an accurate defining source identified and followed. Keystone18 (talk) 22:50, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Let me amend my response. I think the two issues that raised this to begin with would be solved if: Philadelphia was changed to Philadelphia-Lehigh Valley and not sure what to propose on Coal Region. Poconos-Northeast Pennsylvania might solve it without having three entries, like Poconos-Endless Mountains-Coal Region. Hope this is helpful. Keystone18 (talk) 23:24, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
 * One additional question/observation: Most of these pages include taxi cab information. With Uber, etc., the world has moved beyond that, hasn't it? I doubt many of these are even open today. Keystone18 (talk) 02:02, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
 * If the taxi companies no longer exist, please delete them. But as for your other points, the name "Philadelphia-Lehigh Valley" makes clear that it is a combination of two regions. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:02, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I listed differences between our regions and the PA Visitors Network regions in my July 23 post:
 * "Instead of "Philadelphia Region", it has "Philadelphia—Lehigh Valley", which does not include Berks Co. Berks is included in Dutch Country. And Schuylkill is included in Poconos and Mountains instead of Susquehanna Valley."
 * And then I proposed changes that would bring our regions in line with the PA Visitirs Network regions.
 * I will ask again if there is a better tourism source available than the PA Visitors Network. If there isn't, then I think we should align with that map and move on. Ground Zero (talk) 12:01, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pennsylvania


text:
Talk:Pennsylvania Dutch Country

Moved most of the stuff on this page over to the new Lancaster county page (since 99% of it was Lancaster county specific). (WT-en) Danwxman 00:51, 10 March 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Pennsylvania Dutch Country


text:
Talk:Pensacola

If you now of any additional Information to post of the City of Pensacola, please feel free.

Guide Status
According to the requirements for Guide Status, I think this article is more than qualified. What do you guys think? What needs to be addressed before it is Guide? (WT-en) Jtesla16 18:49, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I have a To-Do list for this article on my user page of stuff I'm hoping to do for this article. I think the major thing I want to do is update the 'See' section with contact info.  Once I get that done, I think it'll be ready for guide.  After that, we'll see if I can't get it up to Star. :-) --(WT-en) Tally 19:00, 9 September 2008 (EDT)
 * Looks like a guide to me. (WT-en) LtPowers 18:24, 11 September 2008 (EDT)
 * I'm gonna bump it up to guide now. --(WT-en) Tally 20:48, 16 September 2008 (EDT)

Drink / Nightclubs
If anyone knows anything about nightclubs in Pensacola, it'd be a big help if they could do some writeups for them. I'm afraid it's one thing I know very little about in the city. --(WT-en) Tally 02:38, 12 September 2008 (EDT)

Learn
Do we really need this section in Pensacola? I can't imagine tourists and visitors doing much learning at the local schools, and the colleges don't offer courses short enough for tourists to take. --(WT-en) Tally talk 13:13, 24 October 2008 (EDT)
 * Do the colleges have sports teams, which games bring in tourists? Think of them in those terms. If not, then I suppose you can delete the section. (WT-en) gamweb 08:14, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * I would expect sports to fall under "Do", not "Learn". "Learn" is an optional section, Tally, so leave it out if there's nothing there for the traveler.  (WT-en) LtPowers 08:22, 7 November 2008 (EST)
 * Nah. The only sports teams are a couple soccer teams, and they can't even get the students to go watch, let alone tourists.  Thanks guys, I'm gonna cut it out. --(WT-en) Tally talk 18:00, 7 November 2008 (EST)

Organization
Does anyone think the "Get In" and "Get Around" section should be at the end? It may make sense logically (you have to get there before you can "See" Pensacola), but I would think that most users would be more interested in the stuff to do in Pensacola (See, events, do, drink, eat, etc). I was... Just a thought. If others agree, maybe those 2 sections should be moved towards the end, unless there's some convention to the current layout. --Ncassler 17:51, 30 January 2009 (CST)
 * Yeah, we always put Get In and Get Around near the top -- it lends a chronological kind of order to everything. (WT-en) LtPowers 19:17, 30 January 2009 (EST)
 * I thought the same thing too when I first came to Wikivoyage, but other articles use 'Get in' at the top and 'Get out' at the bottom, so I figure we should just keep it the way it is for now. This way, all the articles have some sort of unifying layout. :-) --(WT-en) Tally talk 02:28, 31 January 2009 (EST)
 * And on an unrelated note, Hopjacks has trivia nights now? Cool.  I love the Belgian fries there, though I'm afraid the pizzas are a bit more pricey than I can afford...  Now I have an excuse to go there just for the fries! --(WT-en) Tally talk 02:30, 31 January 2009 (EST)

Fiesta of Five Flags
The article currently states that the 2009 Fiesta of Five Flags "may be" moved to February from its usual June in 2009 because of the visit of the King of Spain. Does anyone know whether it is going to be moved or not? Looking at, the schedule given there seems to indicate that the Fiesta will take place in June. Given that it's already February it's probably a good idea to clear that up in the article (-: Cheers, (WT-en) JYolkowski 18:01, 15 February 2009 (EST)
 * Given that no-one's contradicted the official website I'll assume it's correct and the festival will take place in June, so I'll be editing the article correspondingly. Feel free to undo my edits if you have better information than I do.  Cheers, (WT-en) JYolkowski 19:59, 16 February 2009 (EST)
 * Yes, you're right, it's set for June. I could've sworn I'd corrected that...  Thanks for fixing it!  --(WT-en) Tally talk 03:16, 17 February 2009 (EST)

This page needs a major update
I have lived and/or visited Pensacola for over 40 years and feel this page is very out-of-date, negative and unuseful. Let's clean this up. To start, the History paragraph. Timber does not define Pensacola. Tdempsey (talk) 20:30, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * You're right, that History section is mostly long and boring, and the recent history paints a negative picture and then abruptly stops. You should plunge forward and try fixing it! --Bigpeteb (talk) 22:00, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * This sentence " In 1845 the territory became the 27th of the United States." is missing a word.  KenWalker (talk) 20:33, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Wikivoyage is the travel guide that you can edit. Please go ahead and make changes to the article that you think are needed. Ground Zero (talk) 21:21, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pensacola


text:
Talk:Penticton

Great start on this article! Nice work! (WT-en) Majnoona 17:41, 24 February 2006 (EST)

Thanks... I am a local, so I was dismayed to see nothing on my hometown. User:(WT-en) Bulliver
 * And you had the perfect response to that! I'm glad to find out what a neat place you live in... (just fyi, double check that you're logged in, then you can sign your comments with a ~ shortcut.) (WT-en) Majnoona 18:32, 24 February 2006 (EST)

 * Thanks. I am logged in now. So there is no confusion, all edits with the IP address were in fact me (WT-en) bulliver 19:59, 24 February 2006 (EST)

Map
Well, here is a map of Penticton. I am pretty happy with the results considering I have never used Inkscape before, let alone drawn a map. Kudos to whomever wrote the 'How to draw a map' page. Good instructions even an idiot like me can follow. Still could use some work though (the map, not the instructions ;)). I will plug away more and update as I can.

Couple things though, the upload page was getting cranky because of the size of the map. I uploaded anyway because it is still under 512kb, however, I don't want to make anyone mad so please tell me if this is out of line. Also, the exported png is more than twice the size of the SVG source. Is that right? I would think the SVG would be larger because of the layer details and all that. Did I miss a step? At first I tried exporting at 1000px wide as in the instructions, but the file was way > 512kb. (WT-en) bulliver 05:17, 27 February 2006 (EST)

 * Replying to self: I figured out how to make the maps smaller in kb and uploaded a new one. Must remember: Read the instructions! (WT-en) bulliver 10:22, 1 March 2006 (EST)

Star Status? (Call for critique)
I'm half-inclined to upgrade this four day old article to star status. What do people think needs to be added or improved to get there? -- (WT-en) Colin 13:32, 28 February 2006 (EST)

 * I agree that this article is veeeeeery close to being a star. It's amazing! I don't usually like to critique -- I'd rather get to work -- but here's what I think we need to push it over the top.

 * We need to re-integrate the "highly recommended" and "local secret" sections into the rest of the Eat and Drink section -- I'm not sure personal recommendations should be featured in that way. A good, enticing description will do more to recommend a place than saying "this is recommended".

 * There are some smileys embedded in places -- those should probably go.

 * Most of the restaurant listings and bar listings need opening hours and estimated prices.

 * The problem with this is that a lot of places drastically cut back their hours, close for lunch, if not close altogether in the winter. Should I just add summer hours? (WT-en) bulliver 16:41, 28 February 2006 (EST)

 * That's sounds about right to me. If you know which places cut back for Summer, maybe mark the hours as specifically being summer hours.  If your not exactly sure which places, just put a blanket statement at the top of the section.  Uh... I think. -- (WT-en) Colin 17:02, 28 February 2006 (EST)

 * Some of the See and Do listings need to come in line with the attraction listings format, in particular with opening hours and prices.

 * The accommodation listings are almost perfect, but most of the listings have the URL somewhere weird.

 * Some of the prose needs to be tightened up, especially in the intros to sections.

 * It might be nice to get some context about the city in the first (un-titled) section. History, geography, culture. A paragraph should probably be sufficient.

 * I do plan to add some history and weather info etc. Just researching now. Should I keep the top section brief and move it to an Understand? (WT-en) bulliver 16:31, 28 February 2006 (EST)

 * Please note that I'm listing minor problems that keep this article from being one of the most perfect on Wikivoyage. I think what's not listed is fantastic and a real lesson in how to make great travel guides. --(WT-en) Evan 13:50, 28 February 2006 (EST)

 * The accommodation listings URL locations fixed. -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 14:01, 28 February 2006 (EST)

 * Thanks Evan. This was a really useful exercise for me to really pin down in my head what the MoS is at a really detailed level.  So much so that I'm now fixing tons of stuff in Lausanne. -- (WT-en) Colin 16:28, 3 March 2006 (EST)

"Disapportionate"
From the section titled "sleep":
 * As with restaurants, the amount of accommodations available in Penticton is disapportionate compared to the size of the city

"Disapportionate" isn't a word. Anyone know what it's supposed to mean? Disappointing? Disproportionate? Some melange of the two? 18.33.0.55 13:42, 18 October 2006 (EDT)

Bit of a late reply here, but yes, I meant "Disproportionate", or 'not proportional to'. Thanks for fixing. (WT-en) bulliver 15:35, 23 July 2007 (EDT)

Downgraded to guide status
I know it says "only nominate articles which cannot be easily elevated/restored to "star" quality, but this appears to be the only place to call attention to the fact that we have a star article with an improper formatting disclaimer, and indeed, none of the article is formatted properly. After formatting the article, perhaps there will be more missing information, but it's embarassing to have such a notice on a "star" article. (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 04:29, 12 April 2010 (EDT)

 * Demote. It's still a really great guide, but it's no longer even close to our ever more rigorous star standards. Price info is missing for most of the listings, along w/ some contact info, and the map does not have all listings marked. It would of course be great if someone were to rescue the article... ;) --(WT-en) Peter Talk 10:44, 12 April 2010 (EDT)
 * Demote. There's no shame in being merely guide status, though.  =)  (WT-en) LtPowers 13:51, 22 April 2010 (EDT)

climate
The average temperature in winter is not an average of -2.7C, the average low in january is only -1.7C and a high of .9C, -2.7 is clearly wrong, can someone please fix this i tried to but it didnt work. thank you —The preceding comment was added by 136.159.127.36 (talk • contribs)
 * It worked fine. What do you think didn't work?  (According to Wikipedia, though, the average low in January is -4.3, not -1.7.)  (WT-en) LtPowers 11:40, 13 December 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Penticton


text:
Talk:Penza

Much more famous
I don't think that Penza needs a disambiguation. Penza in Russia is not a major tourist destination, to be sure, but it is a city of 500,000+ people and it's the first major stop on the Trans-Siberian Railway. Penza (Poland) is so small and unextraordinary that it doesn't even have a wikipedia page yet. I can't find any information about it in the first 10 results for a google search of terms "Penza" and "Poland"—only information about Penza (Russia) and Poland. I think a simple link at the top of the Penza (Russia) page, akin to the one on Wikipedia, should suffice. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:13, 10 January 2008 (EST)

 * Also, since there are no other Penzas, no need for a disambiguation page, only a disambiguatory note at the top of each article. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:16, 10 January 2008 (EST)

 * I think it's best to stick with the standard tag. I don't think the disambiguation page isn't needed, I'd think it's better to have it (and as it already exists, definitely better to keep it). ~ 203.144.143.4 22:34, 10 January 2008 (EST)

Unnecessary disambiguation
I'd like to revisit this. I can't actually verify that Penza, Poland exists—penza poland on Google turns up this page first... And there's no need to disambiguate non-articles like the deserted settlement listed here. Would anyone mind if I do away with this disambiguation? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:27, 19 May 2010 (EDT)

The records I've found for Penza are all related to a village near Lomza, Poland. The current spelling appears to be Pęza, Poland.

title: Talk:Penza


text:
Talk:Peoria (Illinois)

I removed the following from the article. Wikivoyage doesn't link to 3rd party sites, but its probably good for data mining -- (WT-en) Fastestdogever 12:16, 24 March 2007 (EDT) For a fairly comprehensive list of Peoria restaurants, check out the following website: http://www.peoriarestaurants.com/

title: Talk:Peoria (Illinois)