text:
Talk:Mountains to Sound Greenway

There's gotta be a better name for this. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:34, 17 October 2006 (EDT)

 * I shortened the name from "Mountains to Sound Greenway / I-90 over Snoqualmie Pass" to just "Mountains to Sound Greenway". That seems better. Not sure this will make an article, but will do some edits and give it a chance. -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 16:59, 21 October 2006 (EDT)

Mountains to Sound Greenway
Per the one year rule for itineraries. Moreover, itineraries don't have a "do" section. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:16, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Delete: No clear route. Adding a "Do" section shouldn't be a deletion reason, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:38, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Keep since it is a real route, and "a designated National Scenic Byway". Pashley (talk) 09:02, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * But it still meets the one year criteria. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:05, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * No-one is questioning that the route exists, but the article is not usable, so I don't see how it's useful to keep the article in its current form. We could merge some information and redirect the term to the relevant Washington region article, or someone could add a clear, usable definition of the route to this article, but just leaving it as is isn't much of a service to travelers. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:51, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

 * Keep, but the article needs a rethink. Could it function better as an extraregion or travel topic? It lacks the identification of a clear route, perhaps because that's not the purpose of this article? --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 17:33, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * @SelfieCity Would merging this article anywhere seem appropriate? I can't seem to think of any proper place to merge this into, but again, the issue is merging is it lacks the identification of a clear route so... not sure tbh. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 06:07, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

 * If anybody knows the area very good this article can be about outdoor recreation (winter and summer) as well listing cities and towns in these areas such as Leavenworth, Wentatchee, Skykomish, Cle Elum, Ellensburg, Snoquamie Pass, North Bend, Issaquah, etc. It doesn't have to be about travel along I-90. So I say Keep. There are plenty of other articles (especially about certain parts of a country or state) that can serve as a template of some sort to formulate this article. Anyone150 (talk) 03:03, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

Outcome: no consensus. No route identified, nor is "real route" a valid reason to keep. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:22, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

 * No consensus to delete = keep. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:55, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Well it says above "" SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:58, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
 * So to me that's not an outcome yet. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:26, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

 * to respond to your earlier question, we could make an I-90 itinerary, but I’m note sure I-90 is seen as a route in the way I-5 is seen. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 21:13, 7 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Could, although I-5 is much a different case where it's much longer. I-90 could also work too, and might seem like the best solution to this article. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 21:17, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Kept SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 21:24, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

rename to Interstate 90?
Per 's suggestion, I'd support their proposal in moving this to I-90 SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 23:08, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Or even I-90 in Washington state? --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 10:31, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
 * That's a much better title since I-90 goes up to Boston. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:34, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
 * So I-90 in Washington state can mean spanning from Seattle to just past the state line in Coeur d'Alene (east of Spokane/Spokane Valley) which would change the meaning of this entire article. If agreed should such article be about travel along I-90 (formatted like the existing I-5 article) or what? Under the current "Mountains to Sound Greenway" theme the description of I-90 would be most relevant from Seattle to Ellensburg or would it include across northern Idaho to the other side of the Rockies in Montana (if the "Mountains" mean "Rocky Mountains")? What is the purpose of the article? What areas is this article intended to represent? There are others ways to go across from the "(Cascade) Mountains to Sound Greenway" besides I-90 such as WA-20, WA-410, US-2, US-12 as well as some of the major Forest Service Roads in there. What's there along those other highways? To Get Around there's US-97 (north south) between Yakima and Oroville/Osoyoos at the Canada border just east of the Cascades mountains. So it needs to be decided, clarified and agreed upon before any changes can be made. Anyone150 (talk) 02:57, 17 July 2022 (UTC)
 * If it's going to be about I-90, that is going to change this article drastically as I-90 spans across the entire nation from Seattle to Boston as the longest interstate. If it's decided that's going to be about I-90, it can be about traveling along old highways (something like the US Hwy 66 article) as the interstate highways were built to replace or supersede existing state and US Highways while bypassing small towns and some cities. I am making changes to the Interstate 5 article to include information about the old US Highway 99 as Interstate 5 replaced the old US Highway 99 from Blaine to Los Angeles and the old Highway 101 from Los Angeles to the Mexican border south of San Diego. That is just an example. I-90 was built to replace US Highway 10 between Washington and Montana. What else is there about I-90 that would it make interesting to read besides a list of cities/towns along the way? Anyone150 (talk) 03:18, 17 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mountains to Sound Greenway


text:
Talk:Mountain View (California)

Hey, great start! --(WT-en) Evan 23:58, 7 Apr 2004 (EDT)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Mountain View (California)


text:
Talk:Mount Athos

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Comments
If I remember well, women can see it from the ferry going around the peninsula, so maybe we could write something about that.

 * In the section on "respect", it is written that non-Orthodox should abstain from receiving the non-consecrated bread at the end of the service as well as inquire before venerating some relics. Typically, these activities are open and welcome to non-Orthodox (non-consecrated bread is not Communion; venerating icons and relics is not a salvific act).  If, for some reason, the rules in certain monasteries are different, maybe someone could clarify or else I might eventually edit this.

Meat
"No meat is allowed on Mount Athos" I believe this is not exact. Yes meat is not served in the monasteries but I do not remember any prohibiting instructions against it. I also recall having a meat dish in a guesthouse in Karyes. Svobodat (talk) 16:10, 21 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Please feel free to update the article. --ϒpsilon (talk) 16:19, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Athos


text:
Talk:Mount Bachelor

This should probably be merged into Bend. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:24, 10 March 2006 (EST)

 * I think this is a tough one because as a Ski Resort it's clearly a destination off on its own. On the other hand, there appears to be nowhere to sleep directly at the resort.  It sounds like Bend is the economical place to stay, but not the most convenient. -- (WT-en) Colin 14:37, 10 March 2006 (EST)

 * There are a couple of places to stay between Bend and Mount Bachelor, but most people stay at Bend. It is a short drive from Bend. I also agree with (WT-en) Jpatokal that this should probably be merged into Bend. -- (WT-en) Tom Holland (xltel) 19:02, 22 December 2006 (EST)

 * I have turned this into a park article since I think that more matches what this is about. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 03:17, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Bachelor


text:
Talk:Mount Coot-tha

This page is needed since Brisbane is a huge city and its different districts need to be split. This is the first of many.

More content is needed for Mount Coot-tha.

 * Richard, if you would like to propose a full districting scheme for Brisbane, I am sure it will be welcomed. That should be discussed at Talk:Brisbane. The main Brisbane article does have proposed districts, but I see that no action has yet been taken, except to create Mount Coot-tha. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 02:28, 10 February 2010 (EST)

 * Brisbane does not yet have the content - and maybe never will - to justify huge city status. There is plenty of room for this info in the Brisbane article.  This article by itself probably does not qualify under wiaa  --(WT-en) inas 05:13, 10 February 2010 (EST)

title: Talk:Mount Coot-tha


text:
Talk:Mount Desert Island

Hiking on Mount Desert Island shouldn't be a separate article, neither is Kayaking. It is part of Mount Desert Island! I have merging it under the Mount Desert Island section in a sub-section called Hike. We do not generally write separate Travel topics articles about hiking at a destination level. We may write them at a country level, to point to all the destinations where hiking can be done, especially if there are special things to say that doesn't fit into the main country article too well, but not at a destination level, where all the relevant information should be in one article. So that only one article needs to be downloaded for everything relevant. The information should be here, not anywhere else. -- (WT-en) Huttite 16:40, 14 Jan 2006 (EST)

Got it. Sorry for the breach. -- (WT-en) Derek 19:54, 15 Jan 2006 (EST)

 * Not really a breach, just a guideline to stay inside. If Mount Desert Island got so full and large that a separate article on Hiking on Mount Desert Island was warranted because of the total article size then it would be worth considering. But that would need the Mount Desert Island article to be completed first. And I think a lot of work needs doing here first. -- (WT-en) Huttite 20:14, 15 Jan 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Mount Desert Island


text:
Talk:Mount Donna Buang

Project:Votes_for_deletion
This article was previously listed for deletion.

Mount Donna Buang
This was speedy-deleted on the grounds that it's not a destination, but being that it's a ski resort and we've kept other ski-resort articles, I've restored it and would like to see our rigorous process applied. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 10:09, 8 May 2007 (EDT)
 * It might be a free-standing destination, depending on how remote and how extensive it is. I assume You Can Sleep There™, but if it's within day-trip distance of Melbourne and/or just a single lodging, I'd put it as a "Do" item there and redirect.  Unfortunately the article doesn't give any real clues, does it? - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 11:53, 9 May 2007 (EDT)
 * I've done a bit more poking around, and my sources imply that you cannot sleep there; the nearest lodging appears to be in somewhere called Warburton. However, Mount Donna Buang definitely qualifies as an "attraction" along the lines of other ski areas that don't justify articles themselves.  The indicated path forward seems to be to create a Warburton stub, and redirect this one there. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 21:43, 30 May 2007 (EDT)
 * Outcome - Redirected to Warburton --(WT-en) NJR_ZA 11:12, 6 June 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mount Donna Buang


text:
Talk:Mount Everest

So this article is looking great, but it's more like a travel topic-- ie the Everest Base Camp Trek-- and not a desintation/region page. I started on Annapurna which is the same sort of place,a region mostly visited by trekkers, but I focused on it as a place first and then plan to have a day-by-day Jomsom Trek and Annapurna Circuit Trek pages... Is there any reason not to move this to Everest Base Camp Trek and create an Everest region page? (WT-en) Majnoona 16:26, 1 Nov 2004 (EST)

 * When people visit the Everest Region, they trek. There are no major towns to visit, and Everest Base Camp, while being a point to head towards, is often not the final destination. The walk itself is the goal of the journey. Certainly, this page could include additional information about Sherpa culture, the wildlife of the area and even some historical anecdotes about places like Namche and Tengboche Monastery, but it has to be realized that the so called Everest Base Camp Trek is more than just a run through the mountains to reach a destination. The walk there takes the trekker past all the major sites in the Khumbu area, and therefore is an introduction to the Khumbu region itself. Personally, I believe that rather than move the article to the Everest Base Camp Trek page, it should be have supplementary information added. If, however, the article if moved to Everest Base Camp Trek page, then certainly there should be links from the Everest article. Otherwise, many who do not plan to walk as far as Everest Base Camp, but just visit Khumbu may miss the information they need to get around - just my opinion. Steve

 * I guess I support Majnoona on this one, mainly because doing the article the way you have leaves out a lot of the usual information about each town/village/tiny stopover in the area. Of course, it's unlikely that information can go there right now, unless you're all very familiar with the area, but over time it's nice to have a layout that lets each section grow a list of accommodation, eating options etc etc. This format is a great supplement to that, but it's constrained. -- (WT-en) Hypatia 14:27, 6 Nov 2004 (EST)

 * Of course, it is good to set up a page following the standard format. However, because this is region, not a city or town, each section, such as 'sleep,' 'eat,' 'do,' etc will need to be sub-divided under the name of every village and mountain pass. In fact, the only sections that will cover the whole subject, and then only partially, are 'understand' and 'see'. However, that is not to say that it cannot be done, but links between the 'Everest Region' and 'Everset Base Camp Trek' pages should be clearly identified. Otherwise, listings will need to be repeated and vititors who are not going all the way to base camp may miss the information they need for traveling in the Khumbu region. Still, as you rightly say, a page established according to the regular format opens it up, making it more inviting for travellers to add information. The current page does not have this quality. Just a few points to think about - Steve

Clean-up time
OK, this article is just a mess. My proposal:

 * Make this into a standard region template and redirect Sagarmatha National Park here
 * Shift the villages into their own small city articles
 * Spawn off the itinerary into an itinerary

Comments before I plunge forward? (I'm not the best person to do this though, since it's been 20 years since I last saw Everest even from the window of a plane.) (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:36, 3 Aug 2005 (EDT)

It's a great idea, but I wonder whether a new format should be designed for regions like Everest, possibly based on the 'small city' format. Although the centers of population along the trek are listed as 'cities', in reality they are generally no more than a few houses - the biggest village being about 50 houses, but with many consisting of no more than two or three dwellings. If each or these villages are designated their own page, as in say the listings for cities in a country, I wonder what information could be used to complete the pages. At a stretch, all the lodges could be listed under the 'sleep' section, though as they are all of similar design and charge a similar nightly rate and there are no street names or telephones, this would only be a list of names. Possibly the 'see' section could have information about which mountains are visible from a particular village. Otherwise, every village is pretty much the same. Also, I wonder of the benefit to the traveler of having this information spread out over 10 or 12 pages. In the 'small city' format, all information is convenietly included on the one page, irrespective of its location within the city - for example, the western part of town may have beaches, while to the north there might be a castle. However, as neither of these districts have enough attractions to constitute being individual pages within themselves, they are included under the general heading of the city in which they are located. Anyway, just throwing out some ideas here. If you decide to plunge forward using the standard region template, I'll try to help where I can as I'm very familar with the region. Good luck!

 * Let's take it slowly and split off just the biggest places first. Based on absolutely no information of the region, Lukla, Namche and Tengboche would seem to be the biggies?

 * And the itinerary article should be just that, an itinerary. Detailed info on sights, accommodations, etc should be kept on the article pages. (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:50, 5 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * Ok, man. I'll follow your lead. Let the monster crumble! Ps. In addition to the three places mentioned above, add Khumjung to the list. This village is also reasonbly big. Also, be aware that Tengboche is not a village, but a large monastery with four privately run guesthouses.

I have organized this article according to the wikivoyage Regional Article Template. I am very familar with the region and fully agree with the anonomous contributor above who rejects the idea of having a seperate page for each village. As he/she correctly stated, most villages are no more than a few houses, and following the Wikivoyage policy of 'Traveler First', I see no any advantage to spreading this article out of twelve or more pages. In its current state, it is still open and easy for future contributors to add information. Anyway, this is just my humble opinion. I'm happy to follow the majority ruling on this. (WT-en) WindHorse 8 Jan 06

Nepal vs China
Everest can be visited from both China and Nepal, yet it doesn't make a very sensible region because the only thing the two sides have in common is the big pointy thing between them. I've thus made the rather awkward call to make "Everest" a disambiguator and leave all actual info in Khumbu and Qomolangma National Nature Reserve. Whaddayathink? Should there be some kind of climbing from Nepal vs China info here too, and if yes, what format should the article use? Travel topic...? (WT-en) Jpatokal 02:48, 4 June 2007 (EDT)

 * If you can't "get around" from one part of a region to the other, it's not really a single region, is it? If there's common information about scaling the Big Pointy Thing from whatever region, I'd call that article a "travel topic". - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 08:26, 4 June 2007 (EDT)

 * Well, for the moment, I think the way (WT-en) Jpatokal has set it up is fine. However, if info is added later about actually climbing the mountain, then the Everest disambiguator page can be expanded accordingly. At the moment the information we have only concerns the foothills, and the mountain is just a scenic backdrop. (WT-en) WindHorse 09:35, 4 June 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mount Everest


text:
Talk:Mount Fuji

Food is not brought on foot there, it was may be 20-30 years ago. They use mountain buldozers for that. Alice-chan

conflicting costs at the summit
The following 2 lines are in the same section... which one shall we keep?

 * As all materials have to be hauled up by tractors, food and drink prices are high and rise the closer you get to the summit. For example, a vending machine at the summit sells drinks and cans of corn soup for ¥400.

 * The summit has fewer people staying overnight and many more people resting, so the price of a cup of tea or a bowl of noodles is somewhat more reasonable.

? – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 16:16, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

 * IIRC (it's been a few years) they're both correct. Huts on the slopes don't usually let you stop and eat unless you also pay the resting fee (~1000 yen/hour); huts atop do, so that ¥1000 bowl of noodles is still cheaper than the ¥800+1000 bowl of noodles at the 8th station. (WT-en) Jpatokal 17:38, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

 * Well, there ya have it! – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 18:05, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Climbing times
Sorry, I don't believe two hours to the top at walking pace is reasonable. There's a race to the top and back every year, and although that's all the way from the bottom (2x the distance), even the hardened pros seem to struggle to manage it in four. (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:13, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I'd believe two hours for a trained athlete in a hurry during the day, but doing that at night would be unsafe - it's not like there's a sidewalk on the way up - and potentially unhealthy for a non-athlete, not to mention frequently impossible because of the crowds. Athlete or not, doing it during the day blows right past some impressive views on the way up, so I'm not sure why anyone would want to do it in two hours. The current phrasing iss appropriate. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 08:08, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

 * not many views at night... 83.146.12.132 08:16, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

From my experiences 2 days ago I think a healthy person could walk it to the top (from the 5th station) in 2 hours. Certainly none of us ran at any point and all 4 of us made it to the top and had to sit there and freeze for 4 hours to wait for the sunrise. The officially quoted times seem appropriate for extended families and the like. 83.146.12.132 07:33, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

 * Which 5th station, Kawaguchiko? (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:55, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

 * right Kawaguchiko 83.146.12.132 08:14, 26 July 2007 (EDT)

Gotenba
If travelling via Gotenba: The last bus up the mountain leaves around 5 pm. If you have water purification equipment, there is free rainwater at the 6th, 7th and 8th stations. There is no mountain house at the 9th station You should have gaiters for the climb down, as otherwise your shoes will fill with sand while running through the ash field between the 6th and 5th stations. I was told by someone working at one of the mountain huts that there is no need to make reservations to stay at the mountain houses on this route on the weekdays (although it doesn't hurt). There is no need to bring T.P.- all the bathrooms have it. The only functional vending machines on this route are at the bus stop at the 5th station and at the souveneir shop at the 5th station(which is closed at night). I ate curry rice recently at the hut at the 8th station with no rest fee charged (800 yen total). Perhaps whether or not a rest fee is charged while eating varies from hut to hut?

Naming
Yes, Mount Fuji is within Fuji-Izu-Hakone National Park, but "Fuji-Izu-Hakone National Park/Mount Fuji" is a terrible name. We haven't districted national parks before, I don't think we should start now. (Except Kruger National Park, which I still think is handled wrong now. If it's big enough to be a region, its subparts should be small city destinations.) (WT-en) Jpatokal 09:33, 30 April 2008 (EDT)
 * Agreed. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 18:29, 30 April 2008 (EDT)

Off-season permission
Someone has twice removed the statement that you need official permission to climb in the off-season. Does anyone want to argue that that's not true? (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 00:21, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

 * It appears that, while permission is not strictly necessary, you are not allowed to use the roads that go up the mountain and you are "strongly encouraged" to file a climbing plan (登山計画書) .  I've edited the article accordingly. (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:04, 15 June 2009 (EDT)

Directions
Why do all the directions assume you're coming from Tokyo? Very confusing when Nagoya and other cities also have Chuo lines.

And yes, I'd be glad to update it myself if I figure this out. 220.110.51.42 07:40, 14 July 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mount Fuji


text:
Talk:Mount Jiuhua

Could anyone please add the info of the following to the article....

http://www.jiuhuashan.com.cn/english/

my pc is not working very well at the moment

 * The website has moved to a new address and there is no longer any English page. I just added a link to the new website. STW932 (talk) 16:01, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Jiuhua


text:
Talk:Mount Kailash

hy, i'll travel in nepal next month and wonder if i could c the mount kailash in tibet as well. i'd like to do the bus and hitchhiking trip as describet, but is it possible to get into tibet as a single person and can i get a visa on the border? if not, it would be good to update that in the text:)

stefan

 * We generally only put information about traveling between countries on the country pages... according to Nepal, "The crossing between Nepal and Tibet via Kodari is open to independent travelers entering Nepal, but only to organised groups entering Tibet." – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 02:16, 13 September 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mount Kailash


text:
Talk:Mount Kazbegi

It's not clear to me what kind of article this should be (a city, for nearby Kazbegi? a park? a region?). We typically don't have articles just for geographical features like mountains, lakes, etc. --(WT-en) Evan 11:44, 28 December 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Mount Kazbegi


text:
Talk:Mount Kilimanjaro

Deletion
I mistakenly deleted the article after it was substituted for with spam that also got put in the "Talk" page. If spam gets substituted for the article again, please do not make my mistake, but revert the spam and block the account of the spammer. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 02:48, 3 November 2011 (EDT)

Cable car?
Mount Kilimanjaro may get a controversial cable car Pashley (talk) 21:47, 22 May 2019 (UTC)

Fires
Al Jazeera Mount Kilimanjaro, Africa’s tallest peak, on fire NY Times:Fires on Slopes of Kilimanjaro Threaten a Diverse Ecosystem Pashley (talk) 06:20, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Trekking operators
Too long and out of xl and dt to stand on main article, therefore, it's been moved here. Ibaman (talk) 10:35, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Links
Our current link Kilimanjaro National Park goes to Kilimanjaro page of a government national parks site. That is fine & the link should stay.

However a link to another park site has been inserted & reverted. That site looks good to me, but does it fail in terms of our policy to give only primary sources? If not, it should be added, though in Understand not in the lead section. Pashley (talk) 15:28, 27 April 2024 (UTC)

 * There are so many websites with the same information (Mount Kilimanjaro) I don't think the site is necessary because then more and more people will start using the same method of linking pages to their website because they have seen someone else has done the same and no action was taken. I would say it's against our policies and should not be accepted. Tui56 (talk) 15:53, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I think my revert was more about reverting that stray Wikipedia link Tui56 added. That other park site looks trashy and we should exclude it. The official one is fine, of course. Brycehughes (talk) 04:01, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Understood. I am following up now and the other site which now removed but the url is (https://www.kilimanjaroparktanzania.com/) is spamming allot of Wikipedia pages anding it's links as the Official Kilimanjaro Website. Help try follow it's links and remove them / correct to the right sources. They are misleading.
 * Thank you Tui56 (talk) 04:28, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Yeah there's a lot of SEO-promoting links on this website unfortunately. It's a mess. Brycehughes (talk) 04:41, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree, though the problem is not limited to Wikivoyage. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 07:15, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Kilimanjaro


text:
Talk:Mount Kinabalu

Just updating some info here, it is long and a bit verbose, so bear with me (incognito6174, 17May2010)

I have been to the mountain twice now (Dec 2008, May 2009) and will now come again in Aug 2010. Call it my love for mountains. I have learnt the hard way, on what is the best way to increase your chances to make this trek a successful one. Every mountain climb requires some amount of preparation to be done beforehand; and Mt Kinabalu is no exception. I am listing down step-by-step, one way of looking at the preparation, of course there will be other ways, but this is a good one, I think.

1. Mountain accommodation: The most important step which quite a few people overlook is pre-booking your accommodation on the mountain. Here, I am assuming most of you will do the trek overnight. In that case you should be aware that there are limited beds at the Laban Rata (where you will stay for the evening at 3000-odd metres altitude). That means only 192 permits are issued every day to climbers, if you have confirmed accommodation at Laban Rata, you will get a permit. Else you won't and sadly, your trek won't happen on that day. Now, accommodation at Laban Rata is managed exclusively by Sutera Sanctuary Lodges. The mountain has become so popular amongst climbers, that they have started accepting requests for booking up to 6 months in advance and they get filled really fast esp. in the climbing season. So you are well advised to plan ahead for this trek. Call Sutera on +60 (88) 287887 and enquire in advance. Too many people have come without confirmed acco and have gone back frustrated to see it fully booked and have had their trek cancelled.

2. Flights: Secondly, it is important to book your airline tickets in advance, too. Assuming you are coming from Kuala Lumpur or Singapore, this is the next important step in your prep process. As of May 2010, there are few flights to KK from Singapore and the timings are a bit odd, so make sure you plan ahead. Air Asia (low cost, no-frills), Malaysian Airlines and Singapore Airlines are good options to consider. Remember that you have to start your climb at 9 am; so reaching Kota Kinabalu on an early morning flight is a bad idea since the park is a good 2 hours drive away from the airport and you don't want to start climbing as soon as you are out of the air-plane. So plan to reach at least the evening before and stay in the city or at the base of the mountain at the park HQ.

3. Reaching the park: The approach to Mt Kinabalu starts from the Kinabalu Park HQ which is a 2 hour drive away from the Kota Kinabalu city. Most people start from the city early in the morning, reach the park HQ around 9 am or so and then start their climb. Buses are readily available from the Inanam bus terminus in KK city, or you can take a taxi. Some people (I am trying it out this time) book their accommodation near the park to avoid the morning drive and start climbing early. Staying near the mountain also allows you to experience slightly cooler environs and see the magnificent views of the upper slopes of Mt Kinabalu while you sit in the verandah of your hotel, sipping a hot cup of tea. The wikivoyage page has names of a few lodges near the mountain.

4. Start exercising, if not already: While anyone who has climbed the mountain will tell you that it is no walk in the park; it is also not very difficult, provided you are accustomed to climbing or can maintain an elevated heart-beat rate for sustained periods of time. So, start exercising and walking (preferably on inclines or small hills) for 1-2 hours to get in the best shape.

5. Clothing: The temperature at the park HQ is a pleasant 20deg C and drops as you start climbing. At Laban Rata it can go to 5-10 and can also get freezing at the summit. Unless you hail from the mountains, you are most likely a person living in the temperate or tropical zone like me. You must plan for warm clothing. The first half of the climb during the day i.e. to Laban Rata, can be done in shorts/skirt and t-shirt. Thereafter, you might need long-johns, full-pants and a windproof jacket (waterproof if you're climbing in the rains, anyways the weather is unpredictable). Gloves can be 'handy', and cover your ears with a scarf/balaclava. Avoid opening a new pair of trekking shoes on the day of the climb, a worn-in pair allows you to get used to the shoes (and allows the shoes to get used to your feet). You don't want blisters with a 30min walk to the nearest resting point (be ready for them, though). Buy a pair of good trekking shoes, or this trek can be done with your good quality running shoes too.

6. Taking care of your health: The mountain is well above 3000m, and most trekkers will experience some form of headache while climbing (this is natural). So equip yourself with some pain-killers and aspirin. This will be useful. Also, most of the climb is made of naturally forming steps, so it can put considerable strain on your ankles, calves and knees. Avoid stepping on free-standing stones or you might trip and fall or sprain your ankle and your mates will have to carry you then.

7. Travel light: As a rule, do not carry any unnecessary items, and a good way that I use to check whether something is unnecessary on a trek is - "will I be in considerable trouble if I do not have this item with me on the mountain?" Any inclination towards no, and I keep the item at home. Carry the following things to make your trek easier: - head-mounted LED torch, a small one with 3 LEDs is sufficient - spare shoe-laces - Ziploc bags to protect items from rain

8. Finally, enjoy the trek. It is easy to keep complaining about lack of facilities on the trail or how the summit has been shrouded by clouds, some even complain about the toilets at Laban Rata. Remember it takes considerable effort to even bring these facilities to you; and the locals work very hard for little money (through guide fees, food costs and tips). Most mountains of the height of Mt Kinabalu don't even have accommodation or a clearly mapped out trail; forget decent toilets and beds and sumptuous breakfast of eggs to eat. To help the locals, buy from them directly and tip them as you can, esp. the young boys who can sometimes be your guides. It is the trail and the fun we have when walking, that is more important than beating all others to the summit. I'll leave you with eminent mountaineer Ed Viestur's thought - getting to the summit is optional, getting down is mandatory. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Incognito6174 (talk • contribs) on 05:14, 17 May 2010

Kundasang and Ranau hotel listings
Is there any good reason these listings shouldn't all be moved to Kundasang and Ranau if not already listed there and deleted from this article? Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:49, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Kinabalu


text:
Talk:Mount Koya

Is there some way we can have a search for the word "Koyasan" point at this page? Most travellers and guide books refer to it by this name, rather than Mt. Koya. (san being Japanese for Mt.)
 * Good point. I'll start a redirect page. (WT-en) WindHorse 04:10, 31 October 2006 (EST)

Photo for the hiking blurb
I've got a photo of the Japanese five-lined skink that I took on the hike that I just described in a few sentences in the Do section of the page. If anybody with the knowledge of the "grand vision" here at wikivoyage feels that adding the image will be of any use, let me know. (WT-en) Azolotkov 23:15, 19 July 2009 (EDT)

 * More pictures is always good, so plunge forward! (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:32, 20 July 2009 (EDT)

 * I have a couple of photos including a cho marker and one of the rather strange temple where the trail begins. However, Im uncertain whether to post that one as it may ruin the "surprising" nature of it. - Snave

Nankai ticket information not accurate
The article says that the Nankai train + cable car + bus ticket only works if you are not spending the night at Mt Koya. That doesn't sound right. I went twice, both times with that package ticket, and both times we stayed overnight, and everything worked fine. I always feel weird correcting inconsistencies like that, because I can't check back with the person who wrote the original material... What should I do? (WT-en) Azolotkov 08:17, 20 July 2009 (EDT)

Changed the title for mid-range accomodation to a more appropriate "temple stays"
For most travellers, 90000 to 22000 a night is far from "mid-range"! Also added a few clarifications.

Unusual bonus tidbit for visitors
If you partake in the popular Japan-tourist past-time of Drainspotting, keep an eye out up here. The town is one of a rare few that doesn't have its own artistic design, but amongst the plain designs, there is one fancy one stuck up here thats a LONG way from home. If anyone knows the story behind it, please do post it up! - Snave

Image
I have no issues with the current image. Changing it was not about disliking the image. The purpose of changing the image is to avoid the same image appearing multiple times now that there are enough images to have variety. The switched image was used on 5 pages, so I changed them on all pages but 1. The picture that I used to replace it is the one posted here. I don't see how it "looks like ass" unless you think the Danjo Garan itself "looks like ass". The Okunoin is featured in the heading (which is actually of poor quality), so I couldn't use one of those pictures. The Danjo Garan is probably the second most iconic place in Mount Koya so I chose this image. If the issue is that you want the photo to remain on THIS page rather than the other, then we can switch it out on the Japan page. It's representing "Buddhist temples" on that page, and there are plenty of temples in the country, so I'll switch it out over there and leave this one. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 13:51, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Koya


text:
Talk:Mount Merapi

Ini nombor asli Wondo Lencoh & Homestay Satria. (Hi all, here are the new contact numbers for Wondo Lencoh and Homestay Satria) 081226120570 081328857146

Special:Contributions/110.136.200.102
This article has received a number of questionable edits from the IP address above, including what looks like removing competitors and replacing them with other listings. If I'm misinterpreting please explain what's going on, otherwise I'd be very suspicious of further edits from that address. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 12:00, 25 June 2010 (EDT)

I've added a picture take from the summit for the purposes of showing how awesome the view is.. I've also added an alternative way of getting to the climb which is to hirer scooters (I have personally done this climb in this way). Finally I've changed where the article states you can't climb without a guide.. This is untrue.. you don't need a guide nor is there any official need for a guide.. --(WT-en) Jamietelford 22:47, 3 July 2010 (EDT)

Truth is hardly anything to do with it - police and military if enforcing the danger zone can limit access with little effort, and this can vary between eruptions and the climate of how the authorities organise or limit access, never ever second guess the responses by claiming such things. sats (talk) 10:05, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

Phone number edit warring
OK, what's going on here? 3 different phone numbers have been given for Wondo Lencoh. Can someone resolve once and for all which one is correct? See here and here. If it can be clearly proven which number is correct, anyone changing it erroneously (maliciously?) may have to have their posting privileges suspended to end this edit warring. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:52, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

sorry make you confused, I new in WIKI stil learning. IP ADDRESS : 168.235.196.25 and 112.215.154.196 it's mine. true number Wondo Lencoh : +6285229577900.

user Ardi.keling and ardi.menir try given his own number, changed every contac person with his number, Guide Association Number, Wondo Lencoh Number, Superman Homestay Number. it's crazy. Recomend for blocking this user.

you speak in melayu ? :D —The preceding comment was added by Sura Mendhol (talk • contribs)

 * Ya, boleh, but it's better to use English here on en.voy. :-)

 * Does anyone want to defend themselves or give an alternate explanation? If not, we will go with Sura's explanation and enforce it as appropriate and necessary. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:35, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

Ini nombor asli Wondo Lencoh & Homestay Satria. (Hi all, here are the new contact numbers for Wondo Lencoh and Homestay Satria) 081226120570 081328857146 Updated on 22nd Oct 2022 Satria0209 (talk) 13:05, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Standard for guide/tour listings
We have a lot of problems with touting in this article. At the same time, it is quite legitimate to list trekkers in this article, as per these remarks in "Understand":

While climbing the mountain with a qualified guide is recommended it is not necessary or mandatory (locals will tell you otherwise in the interest of a quick buck) as the tracks to the summit are wide and clearly marked.

I would say that "recommended" is a sufficient basis, and besides, trekking is considered "value added" under WV:Tour, as I understand.

But the issue is what standards should we use in choosing who should be permitted to list themselves. I'd be particularly interested in Ibaman's thoughts, since he's currently involved in policing this, but I'd also suggest for anyone to put their thoughts down here. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:19, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

 * I support very strongly the view that WV shall never be an advertising billboard for whatever "tourism industry" anywhere; it's a guide to self-sufficient resourceful travelers. I'm always very quick to say "nuke'em all touts", but at the same time, I'm conscious that it's a somewhat extreme and unmoderated point of view. let's keep the opinions coming... discussion time is on. Ibaman (talk) 10:29, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

 * The problem with that point of view is that is basically says that any tourism-industry based listing would be a matter of touting. That's simply not the case, and we should be careful to make the distinction. Self-sufficient or resourceful travelling doesn't necessarily mean heading out without a plan, or not wanting any suggestions for trekking guides, tours, places to eat or lodgings. I consider myself an independent and resourceful traveller but I don't think I'd hike 10 hours up and down a slippery path on an active volcano alone, and in the dark. The real challenge for us would be to select the best ones in terms of added value, and prevent touty entries. Of course, that is not an easy task. If we choose not to list any, we should try to provide information on how to find a guide, whether booking ahead is necessary and if so, how to do that. JuliasTravels (talk) 12:50, 11 November 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Merapi


text:
Talk:Mount Pelion

Eat section is about general info about what to eat in Pelion. List of places to eat should be listed under sub sections of Pelion. (WT-en) Handrian 03:27, 20 December 2008 (EST)

Is it better to keep individual listings to 3 sections of Pelion, or have separate pages for every village? I was looking at Amalfi Coast, which has similar size of Pelion, and there are separate pages for every village. Handrian (talk) 03:37, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It really depends on the potential for those pages to ever be reasonably filled out - 3 decent-length pages is far preferable to 25 nearly empty ones. Does each village have multiple things to see and do, multiple options for restaurants and hotels? Since, as you mentioned, tourists are likely to visit multiple villages in a single day, i.e. lunch at one, beach at another, dinner at another, etc., I would say it's better to keep to the three sections of Pelion, at least until such time as those articles start to get too long. Most of those villages on the Amalfi Coast have quite a bit of content, so it makes more sense for them to be split up, but that is not the case here. Not yet at least. Texugo (talk) 11:13, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Pelion


text:
Talk:Mount Pulag National Park

Validity?
I'm not sure this article meets our What is an article? guidelines. (WT-en) LtPowers 19:22, 30 September 2011 (EDT)
 * I'm not either. Going to VfD it and see what happens. (WT-en) texugo 00:12, 6 October 2011 (EDT)
 * Actually, upon investigation, it appears that there is a Mount Pulag National Park, so I'm going to move this article there and adjust the template.(WT-en) texugo 00:16, 6 October 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mount Pulag National Park


text:
Talk:Mount Putuo

I've added a relevant mountain in the section of see also, based on the following

http://www.cntms.org/old/eg.asp

title: Talk:Mount Putuo


text:
Talk:Mount Rainier National Park

Starbucks
Here it is, Mount Rainier, and at the end Starbucks gets its name onto the page. Being that G uses it's faulted Page Rank system, this adds to the flaw of that search engine. Reference to Starbucks should be removed from this page (and similar pages). They don't have concession in this park and should not be listed, period. And in no way are they relevant to the mountain or the park. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 71.212.65.63 (talk • contribs)

 * It's a wiki. Plunge forward and remove it. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 19:29, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

 * It is also in the Get out section, nothing to do with the park, and looks to me more like a good faith edit for Seattle than page rank spam. --(WT-en) inas 19:37, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

 * I added the Starbucks references several years before Wikivoyage introduced ads so this particular conspiracy theory can be put to rest. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 20:31, 28 June 2009 (EDT)

new photo?
I like the main photo for this page, but its been used a lot and there are so many great photos of The Mountain, might I suggest one of these?

Lumpytrout (talk) 13:28, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Rainier National Park


text:
Talk:Mount Rinjani

I cannot find a government or academic reference to an "eruption" in 1996 so I have edited the history section to show 1995 (1994-1995 instead of 1994-1996. Please see  for a formal documentation of the history and abbreviated detail of rinjani eruptions. The wikipedia page on rinjani has a discription of formally recorded and documented eruption events including a table of those eruption events derived from formal sources. If anyone turns up formal documentation of an eruption event in 1996 then please post it also on the wikipedia discussion page to ensue the detail is not missed on that page at

If I am in error here and there was a formally documented eruption of rinjani in 1996 please correct the history section of the page to reflect that but if anyone does so please do ensure that the source is a formal one and perhaps post a link or academic citation to the information on this discussion page to ensure clarity. Please do not refer to internet sites that are simply parroting or cutting and pasting from pre may 2010 versions of either the wikivoyage rinjani page or the wikipedia rinjani page. It appears that most of the tourism and rinjani trekking pages are doing this, or just copying and pasting each others text.(WT-en) felix 05:48, 16 May 2010 (EDT)

"That repetitive detail ruined what is a very good article" ruined for ever or was the editing just delayed by a power outage?
Burmesedays I appreciate that you removed the typo repeating a date entry and also the repeat of part of the 1 May eruptive detail. However I do not think it "ruined the article". It just required an edit to adjust the text. Indeed it would not have been there for more than 30 seconds if I had not lost my internet connection on Monday morning seconds after I inadvertently uploaded the edit. I had been trying to preview a very preliminary draft but my internet connection was grindingly slow. Despite several tries I could not upload to the preview page as the connection was so slow. During the many retries I accidentally clicked on the Save page button by mistake uploading my early draft of an unfinished edit with the date typo and the repeat of the 1 May 2010 eruption detail.

I immediately saw the typo's when the page loaded but could not get back online to correct it because seconds later the power was turned off to my district. I remained off for an extended time so I gave up and went to the city. By the time I got back on-line later in the day you had already re-edited the section.

Like yourself I live in Indonesia and where I live the power goes off many times a day often for extended times, sometimes all day or all night, sometimes both. Indeed we lose our power most nights with it frequently going off just before dusk. In the last few days it has been turned on and off 10-15 times or more during the day. Also lately Telkom has been providing an even slower ADSL connection than normal and a lot of the time I cannot even download a page. Yesterday our power went off ant 07:00 in the morning and did not come back on until the evening, then came on for about 30-40 minutes and then went off again for an extended time into the night.

So thanks for cleaning up the text I uploaded, I did not intend to leave it like that. The clumsy edit just arose from an accident uploading it and I could not get online again for many hours to remedy the typos in it.

Burmesedays did you think you were deleting repetition when you deleted "March 2010 plumes rose 500 metres (1,640 ft) - 900 metres (2,953 ft)". That was a different event. Some travellers may be interested in the recent eruptive detail especially if they are planning a Rinjani trek. At least if there is reasonably current information information on in the article it can assist potential visitors to be better informed in their enquiries with the trekking and tour providers.

Also setting aside the upload error and the power outage I do not think updating the article to reflect subsequent and current events to 2010 is going to "ruin" the article. Rinjani is an active volcano with tour groups wandering about on it. Information in the article should be current is possible. I think your comments about the page being "ruined" were a little excessive.

Also you have removed some information that many travellers may find important, such as the aviation advisory detail and some of the eruptive info like the ash eruptions and ejected incandescent material being ejected and falling in and about the caldera in the beginning of May 2010.

Burmesedays you also deleted the distance conversions, I share a dislike of the cluttered typography that results from these conversions. In fact I feel close to a teeth clenching moment just looking at the cluttered type that arises from stating measurements in two different standards. However there are people in the world who do not 'think' in metric measures and no doubt some who do not understand them at all. Hence Wikipaedia has a style guide and a policy on measurements. For clarity I have cut and pasted it below.

Provide conversions from

''It's easier for travelers to understand measurements if they're converted to their own country's units. For this reason, it's best to provide conversions for measurements into both metric and imperial, the two systems most widely used in the English-speaking world.'' ''If the preferred units are metric, provide imperial measurements in parentheses after. If the preferred units are imperial, provide metric measurements in parentheses. If for some reason the local unit is neither metric nor imperial, provide first metric then imperial in parentheses afterwards.''

Burmesedays thank you for tidying up the edit when I could not get back on line but please understand not everyone who edits the page is going to just do a hit and run or vandalise it. A Wikivoyage article is by design always going to be a work in progress and accordingly may at times be in flux.(WT-en) felix 21:38, 18 May 2010 (EDT)

Recent events or Current events section (proposal for inclusion in the article)
I note that despite the CVGHM warnings and the establishing of the exclusion zone of 4 km radius about Barujari that trekking groups were still being taken to the crater lake shore and the hot springs yesterday (17-18 may 2010). I understand from talking to some of the trekkers returning from the slopes that the ash eruptions were not occurring yesterday. Earlier in the week over-night trekking campers were however apparently experiencing hot ash events. Maybe the History section needs to have an accompanying Recent or Current events section to complement it. When info is no longer current or topical in such a Current events section it could be moved henceforth to the History section or deleted if it is just transient info. This would allow visitors to be better informed as to things like eruptive events (derived from official rather than anecdotal sources) and also information such as aviation advisories, exclusion zones or route closures. Certainly if I was going to climb Rinjani I would find such information of interest including that of a report of Rinjani being placed on "Stand-ny Status" by CVGHM in May 2010

ie On 5 May 2010 a possible ash plume from Rinjani rose to an altitude of 5.5 km (18,000 ft) a.s.l. and drifted 150 km NW. Accordingly the Center of Volcanology and Geological Hazard Mitigation advised that intermittent activity could produce ash plumes to 1.5 km (5,000 ft) above the caldera.. A Yellow (Level 2-Advisory) aviation alert was raised.

I heard stories of ash landing in Montong so ash was possibly also travelling SW toward the airport and entering within the approach and departure corridors. Most people travelling to Lombok arrive by air and so the provision of authoritative information on the status of Aviation Ash Alerts alerts is appropriate. With the current attention to the volcanic ash clouds in the northern hemisphere it is even more likely that travellers or interested future travellers may seek or benefit from this information. I think the Aviation Alert information (when derived from authoritative sources such as VAAC or CVGHM) is in context both in a history section and in a proposed Current events or Recent events section. (WT-en) felix 21:35, 18 May 2010 (EDT)

 * I would suggest something like this probably belongs in the Understand section. I do not think it should be called "Recent events" or anything like that as it will be impossible to maintain. It should also be concise and not too detailed. When eruptive activity gets especially serious, then the current situation can go into a warning box. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 21:56, 18 May 2010 (EDT)

24 may eruption activity
Hi Burmesedays. Looks like my gut feeling on Rinjani was correct as it has been erupting with ash and small lava flows since saturday. Hence my earlier editing the page with the official alerts and advisories. I think we should consider putting back some of the info again with content updated to today. My information at the time was that the trekking and guide outfits were completely ignoring the advisories and taking people to the summit, the hot springs and the lake. Well they might be getting into some hot water or something even more exciting soon. I think we should have a think about the warning panel or the Current activity section I was proposing. Your suggestion of the warning panel is good but may be unnecessarily frightening to some at this time, where as a Current activity section may be more appropriate at this time and a panel if things really heat up (sorry could not resist that). I will look into the official reports in the next hour or so PLN permitting (already off 5 times today). FYI ...Also posted this note to Burmesedays talk page and hoping there will be no more talk of ruined pages :)(WT-en) felix 01:03, 24 May 2010 (EDT)(WT-en) felix 01:28, 24 May 2010 (EDT)

Sat phone number-not a working number
I removed sat phone number as it is not a working number (086812104132),(+086812104132), (+62 86812104132)

"Tidak didaptar (not a listed number)" or similar is the response I get when I try that number.

(+86812104132 is a non active number in china)

I tried from a tekom indonesia landline, a telkomsel SIM and an XL SIM. I assume the number that is spread all over the net on travel and trekking websites is just wrong. Certainly it does not work in any reasonable variation.

However the only friend of mine who has a sat phone in indonesia has the number +628681xxxxxxx. Indonesia Mobile Satelite (prefix 8681): Zone 6 is listed at  You will note that is the same prefix as you posted so maybe they forgot pay their bill at Rinjani or maybe they dropped it in the lava flow.(WT-en) felix 04:57, 24 May 2010 (EDT)
 * PT Pasifik Satelit Nusantara: Baru, prefix: 08681.......(WT-en) felix 05:04, 24 May 2010 (EDT)

Rant about inexperienced guides etc

 * I just added a few paragraphs in the "Basics" section on how to make sure the guides know what they're doing. This is based on my own experience; basically we got to one of the shelters, there was a flash thunderstorm, and these "guides" ended up shivering and cold, and so we had to turn back. (WT-en) Mugwump 00:00, 16 September 2010 (EDT)

Moved from article
The note below was originally a comment within the article - moving to the talk page, which is a more appropriate place for it:

 * Blinded the 'alternative' listing below due to hijacking by ip 202.70.58.115 on this page and the Senggigi page, this IP apparently acting on behalf of Lombok Holiday Tours and www.rinjanitrekkingclub.com

 * Hijacking similar to that performed by IP 202.70.58.115 was repeated again on 8 june 2010 by IP 202.70.58.152 including the removal of the earlier version of this explanatory information.

 * The IP 202.70.58.152 is from the same range as 202.70.58.115 that visited this page on 31 may 2010 and performed similar edits to those of 6 june 2010 on this article and also on the Lombok Senggigi article on the same day.

 * re: 202.70.58.152.

 * The Project Honey Pot system has detected behaviour from the IP address consistent with that of a mail server and dictionary attacker. Other data is associated with this IP. This interrelated data helps map spammers' networks and aids in law enforcement efforts. If you know something about this IP, please leave a comment at .

 * The respective IP, and the IP range belongs to WIRELESS INDONESIA, PT SMART TELECOM, PT, country: ID, descr: Mobile Network Provider. Links, email addresses, phone numbers and physical addresses point to Domain Name: RINJANITREKKINGCLUB.COM - Registrant: PT.LOMBOK TROPIC HOLIDAYS TRAVEL SERVICE - Andi Hermansyah, Jl. Raya Senggigi 112, Senggigi, Batu Layar, Lombok Barat, 83355, Tel. +62.370692225, Fax. +62.370692225., :+62 (0) 817 5754 551 / (0) 8180 5712 752" The IP concerned is 72.52.162.209, registered to Lombok Holiday Tour at http://www.lombokholidaytour.com/. IP: 69.65.43.164. The activities of the individual associated with the respective IP occasionally uses the alias - Adietya - when flooding discussion boards and travel industry blogs with information about an 'alternative' rinjani trekking club and other related Lombok travel, tours and package information. A user - a_dudley - has also been associated with this IP 202.70.58.152.

 * A hijacking content example appears below:

http://www.greenrinjani.com (info.greenrinjani@gmail.com|) (+6281916030327)

-- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 11:49, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

Trekking agencies
Given the warning about pre-booking present in this article, I've removed all listings without addresses in accordance with the Tour policy. Many of the remaining listings still look like they might be travel agencies, but hopefully someone with local knowledge can take a look and remove any that aren't companies that lead treks up the mountain. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 11:54, 28 April 2012 (EDT)

 * Similarly, I've been reverting the "Trekking Rinjani" listing (URL is the same as the company name) due to some issues related to changing competitor listings and other violations of Project:Don't tout. Unless/until that company can explain what happened in edits like this and this I'd recommend against including them in this article. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 19:51, 2 May 2012 (EDT)

 * The link that was deleted in the two edits you point to does not work for me; I get an error message that the site cannot be found. If it is dead, that would be a valid reason to delete it. However, I am in China so I cannot tell if t is actually dead or just blocked by the Great Firewall. Could someone else please check? (WT-en) Pashley 00:18, 3 May 2012 (EDT)

 * Both links worked for me. (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 00:27, 3 May 2012 (EDT)

 * I tidied things up a bit. Johns adventures is a long established provider and a key player on the mountain, he is on the main road running through Senaru. Rinjani Adventure is OK as well, it is operated by one of the previous people from the genuine Rinjani Trekking club, however we need to keep an eye on that listing as his name and web address are compromised by another operator (the same one referred to in the much earlier hijacking notes concerning Rinjani Trekking Club hijacks). In the case of Rinjani Adventure an 's' is added to the end of the URL, hence diverting the traffic to another operator. The correct address is http://www.rinjaniadventure.com/  (NOT http://www.rinjaniadventures.com/) as sometimes appears in various places.  (WT-en) felix 19:42, 3 May 2012 (EDT)

New entrants
This new entrant has been moved across here as their depth of experience in trekking has yet to be clarified.

This second listing was removed from the sub-section titled "Other activities":
 * Andreas' expedition (www.andreasexpedition.com) has for example a day trip in Senaru and Bayan in it's program, a mix of nature and culture. The guests visit the traditional village in Senaru, make a walk through the rice paddies, take a bath in the two waterfalls of Senaru, visit the old mosque in Bayan and see the production of handicraft in this village - wonderful sarongs and scarfs. In the late afternoon the guests make a stop at the food market in Ancak and have the possibility to taste typical local food.

Hi Andreas and Sandra. Thank you for your contribution to article content in the Other activities sub-section, however the detail providing a listing for Andreas' expedition there as a provider has been removed. The policy on tour or guide listings is that a listing is only permitted in an article if it is an activity that the traveller cannot, or may not do on their own. All those activities listed are accessible to an independent traveller.

However the Rinjani ascents are not open to an independent traveller, park regulations strictly demand that an accredited guide is used for any ascent. That is why this article lists the ascent guides, but like other articles it does not list general guides or tour businesses. So your contribution to the article content remains and has been slightly edited, however your own business name has been removed as a supplier of tour guide providing access to those activities. The Guideline on this matter states; "Tours can be listed on Wikivoyage as long as they constitute a value-added activity. If a traveler could fulfill the substance of the tour on their own, the tour should not be listed" Please also have a look over these guidance articles; Welcome, business owners, Tour listings, and MoS.

In regard to listing in the Guides and trekking agencies sub-section please outline your experience and provide some references, including; trekking experience, number of ascents, current equipment, and crew detail. Also please detail which trekking provider you worked with as a Porter, and how many ascents you have performed on your own as a stand-alone Guide, and the normal number of participants in the ascents you have provided as a Guide. Thanks-- Felix  ( talk )  05:53, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello Felix!

Thanks for your information.

It's not true that other providers also have a day trip in Senaru and Bayan in their program. They only offer a half day program with a panorama walk, they visit the traditional village and the waterfalls. Nobody brings his guests also to Bayan or Ancak. So I changed this part in Other activities again.

Andreas has a lot of experience. He started to be a porter in 2000, two years later he got a guide. He climbed Rinjani so often with guests, that he can not count it anymore. In this years he was working for many different providers in Senaru. Last year he started his own business and is organizing trips now. He knows many guides and porters, has seen many times how they are working, and asked the best ones to work for him. He is using good equipment: new tents, good sleeping bags from Austria and big sleeping mats.

All of the guests he had until now, have been very satisfied. He offers a very good service and shows and tells our guests a lot about local life. They also get real traditional local food on our trips. For his team he creates good working conditions. His guides and porters get good food on the trips and he gives them a good and fair salary.

So everything what I was writing was true. I don't really understand, why Andreas' expedition is not listed anymore on this page. I thought wikivoyage wants to be up to date. So if there is a new organizer, why do you not want to see him in the provider list? And does every provider has to discuss first his experience before he is listed?

By the way, how many times have you already been on Rinjani and with which organizer did you make the trip/trips? Or what connection do you have to the providers listed here on wikivoyage?

We are already looking forward to hear about your experience. Best wishes, Sandra —The preceding comment was added by DewiSandra (talk • contribs)

 * Hi Sandra, perhaps you need to look over Tour listings again and you will understand the issues concerning the activities listings in this article. Your comment that; "Nobody brings his guests also to Bayan or Ancak" is somewhat subjective, other providers have a day trips to Senaru and Bayan. Lombok has many day tour providers with varying programs. However in the Wikivoyage article context it comes down to this guideline; "Tours can be listed on Wikivoyage as long as they constitute a value-added activity. If a traveler could fulfill the substance of the tour on their own, the tour should not be listed". So what this means is tours such as that are not going to be listed anyway. You are however welcome to describe them in the article prose, and that is how they are presented now in the article. It was not appropriate to list them as an activity provided by your business as a separate activity listing. That is why the business details were previously removed from that section of the article.

 * In relation to the mountain ascents. You are outlining above that Andreas first worked as a guide 11 years ago, and as a porter for two years prior to that. You also mention that he has been organising trips for under one year. This article has no need to list every provider on the mountain or every entity announcing themselves as a new trek provider or organizer. If you are familiar with the Rinjani situation you will no doubt be aware there is a sizable number of entities already asserting they do that. Andreas is only one of many. You would also be aware that a trekking organiser with under one year of experience is really somewhat short on experience as a trek organiser. The mountain has a generous number of individuals and entities claiming to be 'expert' providers. You need to provide some supporting information as per the requested detail above. There are adequate established and suitably experience providers currently listed in a number sufficient to provide a starting point for travellers to make enquiries about the destination. There is no need for the article to list every provider who enters the field. It should be understood these travel guide articles do not seek to provide a service directory for a destination.

 * It was also inappropriate for you to just re-list again when the listing had been removed. So that listing is going to be removed again whilst this matter is looked into in some more depth. That does not indicate that Andreas will not be listed in the future. However it would assist if the information requested above was to be provided, and in less than vague terms. So please do provide some more information in that regard. Thanks -- Felix  ( talk )  18:48, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Felix, I was reading the article about tour listings and understand that it's not allowed to list our day trip. And I have seen that you only left 6 trekking providers in the list, 2 of them are from Senaru and a third one has an office in Senaru. How comes that many 'expert' providers like Galang Ijo or Rudy Trekker are missing, while for example Rinjani Adventure is on the list, which is in Sinar Rinjani (not anymore Sinar Selatan)? Who is deciding here which provider is listed? Are you a Rinjani 'expert'? Can you tell us where it's written in the guidelines that only providers who are organising trips for many years are listed? And how many years experience does an 'expert' need? We already asked you who you are and what connection you have to Rinjani, and are still waiting for your answer. It's also inappropriate of you to delete our post. 13 years hiking experience should be enough to be listed here. Thanks too —The preceding comment was added by DewiSandra (talk • contribs)

 * The listings for trekking providers should be kept to a list of established providers with a depth of experience in organizing ascents. Normally the articles do not list tours, guides or trekking providers at all. The reason they are listed in this article is determined by both the formal park requirement for a guide, and also the sometimes hazardous nature of the trekking ascents and mountain slopes.

 * There is no need for every provider, booking service or new entrant to be listed in the article, especially if they have only been operating for a few months and have limited experience as a trekking organizer. The articles are not intended as a service directory, or as an advertising channel.

 * Green Rinjani was only originally listed in the context of their tourism focussed tree planting programs, they have now ceased that activity, so that provider has been removed. Their listing was not as a mountain ascent provider, it was for walks on the slopes that included a tree planting program. -- Felix  ( talk )  18:33, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your information.
 * We started organising Rinjani treks last year in April and had in 2012 15 groups (1 - 4 persons). Since the nationalpark opened this year, we had 4 groups. So what do you think, how many years do we have to organise treks until we can be listed here on wiki too?
 * We also found this text in the goals and non-goals: "The wiki technique we use for Wikivoyage makes it possible for us to include information that's not in other travel guides. This doesn't mean that we only include information not found in other guides. Wikivoyage aims to be a complete travel guide – not just a supplement to traditional guides." So it should also be possible to list a new office, or not?
 * We also offer something special. Our office could be listed in the context of our eco-friendly tourism focussed on showing our guests how real life on Lombok is and offering real traditional local food.
 * If we understand you right, you have the qualification for deciding which provider is listed here. Are you the manager of this page? -- User:DewiSandra - —The preceding comment was added by DewiSandra (talk • contribs)
 * Please Sandra, just read the detail provided above, and have a look through both the article history, and the Wikivoyage contribution guidelines. Perhaps also consider if the completion of part of one season is representing a depth of experience organising mountain ascents.
 * The article already has sufficient information to inform a traveller. The article does not seek to provide a comprehensive listing of all providers on the mountain, more so it seeks to provide a brief list of suitably proficient and experienced trekking providers with sufficient depth of experience organising ascents that the reader may be informed concerning the destination, and be able to locate at least a basic choice of reputable and qualified providers at that destination.
 * If you feel very strongly that there is someone on that list that should not be there then by all means make a case for them to be removed. No clear benefit can be readily identified in adding further trek organisers to that list. Are you perhaps suggesting the other providers are in some manner not living a "real" life, the other participants conducting trekking ascents on the mountain no doubt hold the view they are quite "real" as well.
 * Other operators are similarly providing ascents whilst promoting a 'environmentally responsible' outlook, other organisers are also including meals in their packages. If you consider the meals provided on your ascents are more delicious than those of others, or more authentic to the mountain's slopes then that is something you could perhaps promote in your marketing. If you are seeking to improve the standard of food on the ascents then that is a positive development and should assist you to develop your business and market share. -- Felix  ( talk )  18:10, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Note: There have been repeated instances of new listings being posted here. Don't do that. This is the talk page. All new listings posted here long after the 2013 discussion have been reverted (deleted), and if you post yet another new listing here, it, too, will be reverted. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:57, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

 * The article has "Rinjani Park regulations stipulate the use of a certified guide..." Is there perhaps a government site with a list? Pashley (talk) 12:49, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

OtBP?
This article seems to pop up every now and then in Recent Changes, unfortunately mostly due to touts. The article has guide status and could at least theoretically be nominated for OtBP. BUT with so much touting going on, and due to the fact that many sections look quite brief, I firstly would like to ask people more familiar with the region if there's anything fishy about this article so that possible problems can be fixed right away before Mt Rinjani is nominated.

Who may know something about the place? Ikan? Felix505?

If the dry season is from April to November perhaps we should aim for April 2016 (or March if you need to book trekking guides a couple of weeks ahead)? Later it will have to compete with the already nominated European and North American articles. ϒpsilon (talk) 10:34, 28 June 2015 (UTC)

 * Anyone? ϒpsilon (talk) 14:52, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I've dealt with so much touting in this article that I've been hesitant to say anything. If you'd like to nominate it, go ahead. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:26, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

 * If you are a healthy person (stamina for at least 3 days), you can climb Mount Rinjani through hard way or more easy way, but need more time. Don't worry about trekking guide, there are always available and can be prepared on the spot instantly. Sorry, I cannot say anything about nomination, due to I haven't yet read the other nomination candidates.Gsarwa (talk) 06:46, 4 November 2015 (UTC)

Copyvio? No, the original is ours
To fix the issues that are necessary for the article to become OtBP, I was searching for information on the hot springs and such that have very brief descriptions. Now I ran into this site and to my horror I notice that there are several parts that are verbatim to our Mount Rinjani guide (sight descriptions, "Most of the visitors come to Mount Rinjani through Senaru village...", "Mount Rinjani is the best climbed during the dry season (April-November)..."). As the article has been a target for touting, I thought the content was copied over by a tout (or someone else).

But that site apparently dates from 9 October 2014...and the content was in our article already in September see here. So it's they who are the copyright violators. As you can see, Wikivoyage is not credited anywhere (nor is WT). BTW, I suspect the reason for some of the sentences in our article being different from the one on the tour agency's (?) is that Ikan or someone else has copyedited text that was originally written by a non-native English speaker. Should we do something? ϒpsilon (talk) 14:30, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Ady Adventure (potential spam)
An anonymous editor has today replaced a listing with another listing. I have no idea whether the new listing is valid or not, but I checked out the link to the old one and it is still working with no indication that it has been taken over or closed down. Furthermore the new listing seems to be a different one, as all its details (number,address etc) are different, so it seems to me like someone tried to delete a listing of a competitor. I reverted the edit, but the same anonymous editor made the same edit again. I don't want to start an edit war here, so I want to put this up for discussion. Is there a valid reason for this listing to be replaced or is this just spam? Drat70 (talk) 05:19, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected
Given three attempts to add a tour listing I have semi-protected this for a day. I hope that this is not considered too draconian. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 09:45, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
 * Actually, looking closer at the article's history I noticed this tout has tried to add his businesses since more than a week... ϒpsilon (talk) 09:49, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I already blacklisted his URL, and I blocked this iteration of his persona for a day, but he previously used dynamic IPs. Very annoying. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:50, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
 * And now 3 days for block evasion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:52, 20 May 2016 (UTC)

 * Reinstated semi-protection for 1 week. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 04:17, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

 * This article is getting a disproportionate amount of touting for over a year now. Shall we just make it long term semi-protected? --Andrewssi2 (talk) 00:36, 10 April 2017 (UTC)

 * I'd support that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:51, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Odd description
What is this: It sounds like a warning, but then they should not be in a listing. Vandalism? --LPfi (talk) 09:06, 14 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Full Rinjani, [...] Offers a Rinjani trekking package. They tout their team as experienced, professional, ...

 * I notice similar wording about Lhuna Adventure. Tired of touts? --LPfi (talk) 09:10, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Yes indeed. Not vandalism; self-listing plus edits by me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:13, 14 December 2016 (UTC)

Too much detail?
Mount_Rinjani currently has three paragraphs for eruptions in 2009 & 2010. I'd cut that to one sentence, or at most two.

Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 03:42, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Good idea. Ground Zero (talk) 09:05, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Sometimes there's joy in detailed history; this is not one of those times.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:09, 4 May 2020 (UTC)

 * ✅ Done. I ended up with a single paragraph. Pashley (talk) 10:25, 4 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I cut it down to one sentence now, including the 2015 one. Should some of it be put back in some form? –LPfi (talk) 14:18, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Who writes all this stuff?
Notwithstanding that it's a very comprehensive guide, but who wrote all this, I wonder? It's like a 100-page composition practically. Evidently, the person must have been very knowledgable on the topic. Or was everything just collected from wikitravel (wherever that material came from)? Lazarus1255 (talk) 06:48, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Since you're interested to know, look through the article's history. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:56, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

 * And on WT: There was a fork, so everything was brought over, including most authors still active at that time. –LPfi (talk) 09:10, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

 * The article has grown from some 26 kB to some 33 kB since the fork, see the diff. –LPfi (talk) 09:19, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Oh okay, thanks. I was just impressed by the volume (and quality, too). There must be some very adroit travelers out there. I wish I had more experience under my belt. Lazarus1255 (talk) 16:10, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Touty links
The following all offer organised treks with accommodation, transport to the mountain, return to your accommodation and can also help with hiring a private guide if required:

 * Rinjani Samalas Tour & TrekkingMount Rinjani hiking Tour guide from Senaru village. tel:+6282341446551 mailto:rinjanisamalas@gmail.com

 * Ibaman, the problem is, a guide is required to climb this mountain. A cautionbox says "It is recommended to either use one of the providers listed in this article or to make arrangements directly with a provider after arriving in Lombok." However, no provider is listed now except for one providing transportation to Senaru or Sembalun Lawang that's still listed in "Get in," probably because you missed it. It's hard to police which listings are reliable, but having no listings is untenable, so I think we have to restore listings that do not have touty language. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:36, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

 * yeah, I see, and raise no objections... this is very unpleasant, to have such a huge spamlist in this page. Ibaman (talk) 17:58, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

 * Ibaman, do you want to try your hand at editing any of the listings? We should restore them soon because of travellers' need to have a guide. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:18, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I gave it a try. What a sadness, to need to have long lists like this. Ibaman (talk) 15:11, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
 * We could curate the list if we knew how. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:28, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Which is the official site?
Jayengrane changed the URL in the lead – which should be the park's official site – from rinjaninationalpark.com to rinjaninationalpark.id. The domain of the former (.com) and the "Recommended Trekking Operator...") seems to suggest it is a commercial site, but the footer says "Copyright @ Rinjani National Park". The latter also says "Taman Nasional Gunung Rinjani", but my language skills don't allow me to evaluate the site further.

Regardless, it seems that the sites don't reference each other and thus it doesn't seem they are both by the official administration. So which one is official? What is the other one?

(I think the history section should be cut down. Was the additional info from Wikipedia? We don't need to know that "On May 5th 2010 a possible ash plume rose to an altitude of 5.5 km (18,000 ft) and drifted 150 km NW" and similar detail. Please condense the info on 1994–2015.)

–LPfi (talk) 15:40, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Rinjani


text:
Talk:Mount Roraima

I'm not even sure it this is an article. -- (WT-en) Ricardo (Rmx) 14:46, 3 November 2006 (EST)

 * Well:

 * Is the top somewhere that has a city, or that you can sleep on (legally)?
 * Is the mountain itself a national park -- as opposed to "part of" a national park?
 * Is it a distinctive region that fits tidily within one country but not into one of that country's regions?

 * If the answer to any of these is "yes," it's probably an article; otherwise, no. Ricardo, you probably know the place better than most of us; what's your opinion?  Personally, I have created a couple of articles on mountain ranges (Jemez Mountains, Sangre de Cristo Mountains) on the grounds that there are things in them that qualify as "attractions" and/or places to eat/sleep but don't fit smoothly into some other city or park, i.e., the ranges are treated as "regions."  I have a hard time imagining how that could ever work for a single mountain, however. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 15:13, 3 November 2006 (EST)

 * Mount Roraima is inside both the Canaima National Park in Venezuela and the Monte Roraima National Park in Brazil - it marks the border between those two countries. Since access is normally done by the Venezuelan side, I'd keep it as "isin" Venezuela. Similarly, Angel Falls is also a major attraction within the Canaima Park and has its own article, It is, however, easier to fit into the hierarchy as it doesn't share a border with Brazil. As the 3 articles already have been written to some extent, maybe we could keep the two "problem" articles as "districts" of the main park article (like Canaima National Park/Angel Falls and Canaima National Park/Mount Roraima. What do you think? -- (WT-en) Ricardo (Rmx) 19:09, 5 November 2006 (EST)
 * That seems like a reasonable solution. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 20:58, 5 November 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Mount Roraima


text:
Talk:Mount Sinai

Climbing at night
"Some of the stone steps are said to be more than a meter high, so it is not a path that is traveled by night." → not so, I climbed at night and had no problems doing so. (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:20, 8 November 2007 (EST)

Just Out of Curiosity
Just out of curiosity, what "archaeological evidence" would one look for to prove (or disprove) the assertion that Moses visited Sinai, or that God gave him the Ten Commandments there??? - (WT-en) Ecjmartin 21:23, 1 June 2010 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mount Sinai


text:
Talk:Mount Snow

I'm very interested in finding out about work permits at Mount Snow over the ski season, for New Zealanders..

title: Talk:Mount Snow


text:
Talk:Mount St. Helens

Naming
There has been some discussion (see Talk:United States National Parks for one example) of how to name national park articles, specifically whether the "National Park/Monument/Etc" should be considered the most common name. Mount St. Helens seems like a corner case, but I moved the article because without the "National Volcanic Monument" in the name it isn't as clear that the article refers to anything more than just the volcano, and also because using the full name is consistent with the naming of other national park areas. -- (WT-en) Wrh2 16:53, 19 Jul 2005 (EDT)
 * I would think that the old name was better as being 'most common'. Travellers who have never heard of "Mount St. Helens National Volcanic Monument" have heard of "Mt. St. Helens", and are much more likely to type the latter into the search box than the former.  In my opinion the real page should go where people are likely to look (or named for what they are likely to search for), and any clunky longwinded official name made up by some beaurocrat but which nobody would think of without having already been there should be a redirect.  That is if we use the longwinded version at all. -- (WT-en) Mark 20:44, 19 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * Agree with Mark on this. The current name is just a little too longwinded. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:24, 19 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * No problem then, I'll revert the move, although it would be good if we could get an official policy on the discussion that started as to park names (see Talk:United States National Parks). At least in the US, there are almost no park names that use "National Park/Monument" in the most common name, but there are a lot of good reasons to use that name in an article title.  In terms of Mount St. Helens, no one says they "want to visit Mount St. Helens National Volcanic Monument", but that is the park's official name, and it is  clear from the full park name that the article is about the entire park area (including Spirit Lake, nearby peaks, valleys, etc) and not just about the volcano. -- (WT-en) Ryan 21:37, 19 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * OK, thanks. I really want to make it clear here that I'm not keen on giving any deference to official names for any destination.  Official names tend to be verbose to the point of being silly, and we've had a long tradition of resisting them here (see Talk:Bombay).

 * Of course we want the congressonal staffers who make up these national park names to be able to use Wikivoyage too, but mostly I think travellers are better served by the common name for a place.

 * Also I really see this as being a Project:Slippery slope. If you have official names for one kind of destination then why not for all of them?  Then someday a copy editor type will go around and start moving things, and we'll have The City and County of San Francisco and La Ville de Paris, and of course the ever popular Walt Disney World Resort -- (WT-en) Mark 22:03, 19 Jul 2005 (EDT)

 * I read through the Talk:Bombay discussion a while back while trying to figure out what happened to User:(WT-en) Dhum Dhum, and from that discussion it's clear that the "official name" issue gets some people's blood boiling. Since I'm still nursing scars from my last experience discussing changes to long-standing policy, and (more importantly) because it seems more important to write decent park articles rather than worrying about the naming, I'll hold my tongue for now 8-) -- (WT-en) Ryan 22:25, 19 Jul 2005 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mount St. Helens


text:
Talk:Mount Tai

I blanked the text of this article because text from Wikipedia can not be "transwiki'd" into Wikivoyage. The reason for this is because Wikipedia and Wikivoyage use two very different copyright licenses. Wikipedia uses the GNU FDL license while we use the CC-by-SA 1.0 license. -- (WT-en) Sapphire 04:52, 3 October 2006 (EDT)

Mount Tai and Mount Taishan are the same and should be combined. (WT-en) MurrayJ3 17:48, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

 * Done. Thanks for noticing the problem. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 18:48, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

"In the north": Ambiguous expression
From the article:

Mount Tai is in the north of Tai'an city

Does that mean it's to the north, outside of the city or (as I would interpret it literally) on the northern side of the city itself? Either way "in the north" has to be changed to something clear. If it's within the city, I'd suggest something like "is in the northern part of Tai'an city" - or the northern outskirts if it's just on the edge of the city. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:13, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

 * Strictly speaking, it seems to be on the border of Tai'an City and neighboring Jinan City. But this is related to a perennial difficulty in Wikivoyage's coverage of China: "cities" in China don't necessarily correspond to what people in many other countries would think of as a city—a "prefecture-level city" in China is often more like a county in the US. (Some Wikivoyage articles call these "prefectures", but I don't often hear this term used anywhere else, maybe because prefectures have mostly been phased out and replaced with prefecture-level cities and other administrative units.)
 * On a map, it looks like the urban part of Tai'an is right up against the southern side of the mountain, but I don't really know. The northernmost part of the mountain appears to be under the administration of Jinan. Probably "to the north" is clearer. —Granger (talk · contribs) 14:12, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

 * Thanks for checking that out and weighing in. I'd love to hear from someone who's been there on the point you're not positive about - whether it abuts the urban area on its southern side. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:46, 15 November 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mount Tai


text:
Talk:Mount Taishan

Mount Taishan and Mount Tai are the same and should be combined. (WT-en) MurrayJ3 17:47, 15 May 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mount Taishan


text:
Talk:Mount Tallac

This trail is an 11 mile hike. This hike includes two alpine lakes(fallen Leaf Lake and cathedral Lake).

http://www.geocities.com/kevscott_tx/pict/TahoePhoto.html

title: Talk:Mount Tallac


text:
Talk:Mount Vernon (Virginia)

Disambiguation
I'm tempted to say that Washington's home is by far the most famous Mount Vernon out there. Should we move this to Mount Vernon and move the current disambig page to Mount Vernon (disambiguation)? --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:53, 9 October 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mount Vernon (Virginia)


text:
Talk:Wollumbin National Park

Copyvio
When first posted the content in this page was a copyvio from http://hillcrestbb.com/mount_warning.htm. It has since been removed.

 * Uh, is there a reason I'm missing why this content is still up if it's a copyvio? I'm going to move it there for data mining and go ahead and put a clean template in. Please revert me if I'm in error. (WT-en) Majnoona 18:17, 9 Jan 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Wollumbin National Park


text:
Talk:Mousehole

Comments
So how do I add an external (primary?) link now?

See Project:External_links - also you can sign your comments on talk pages using four tildes ( ~ ). I corrected the link you added on the page also, all you were missing was the http:// - without that it won't link. We've also got new templates for eat/drink, etc... you'll see them when you're editing a page towards the bottom - they look like this:

*

Hope that helps! (WT-en) - Cacahuate 02:42, 10 March 2007 (EST)

title: Talk:Mousehole


text:
Talk:Mozambique

For future reference the Project:CIA World Factbook 2002 import can be found at Talk:Mozambique/CIA World Factbook 2002 import.

I think the photo of Pemba's Wimbi Beach should be moved to the Pemba article, when written. - (WT-en) Huttite 05:27, 5 Oct 2004 (EDT)

There were two opposite statements regarding the work conditions in Mozambique. One said that there were rapes and kidnappings reported among charity organizations, the other was saying that this statement was false and said that the country is the safest of its surroundings. Since there were no citations for these two statements, I removed both. (WT-en) Ultranol 12:23, 8 June 2006 (EDT)

Understand rollback
I rolled back the change of "Understand" to "Historical backdrop" since "Understand" is part of our country article template. --(WT-en) Evan 14:09, 10 December 2006 (EST)

Southern or Eastern?
On the Africa page map it's included in East Africa but the Southern Africa map places it there. Wikipedia's Southern Africa page touches slightly on it... can we discuss what to do about it, even though it's a slight grey area, for the sake of a travel guide I think it should just go in one or the other. If my memory serves me correctly LP puts it in East Africa. NJR_ZA says that most South Africans would consider it part of Southern Africa. Any thoughts? (WT-en) Cacahuate 13:21, 20 December 2006 (EST)
 * Thinking a little more I'm starting to vote for putting it in Southern Africa. The southern portion of the country is far more heavily traveled, and the easiest way to get into the country by land is from South Africa, and I think it's much more likely to be on the agenda for someone touring Southern Africa... a relatively small handful of people enter from Malawi or Tanzania in the north. Any objections? (WT-en) Cacahuate 01:44, 21 December 2006 (EST)

 * I agree, it should be moved to Southern Africa. Politically, historically, economically and culturally it is definitely a Southern African country. (WT-en) Dodger67 18:22, 29 September 2007 (EDT)

 * I third that motion. I'm a little surprised Mozambique was ever put into East Africa, and it's not too hard to change this. Unless someone raises an objection soon, I'm all for going ahead with this and will change the maps. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 19:01, 29 September 2007 (EDT)

 * I think you can go ahead and do so; it just makes a lot more sense from a travelers point of view. South Africa is the prefered entry point into Mozambique and the N4 between Nelspruit an Maputo has become a very busy road (especially over weekends) with many Mozambicans doing their shopping in Nelspruit's Riverside Mall and many South Africans and international travelers heading for fishing, divings in southern Mozambique. --(WT-en) NJR_ZA 03:31, 30 September 2007 (EDT)

Comment moved from Stay safe section
I'm just about to leave Mozambique - a little earlier than expected - due to the LACK of warm friendly locals who have obviously been replaced by thieves and liars: I have been overcharged for EVERYTHING I bought - EVEN after haggling - and my change has been accidentally incorrect almost every time Ive paid for something...and/or they havent got the change. there also seems to be a nice habit of charging you extra for baggage even AFTER agreeing a price for travel and THEN them not having change anyway. In my 10 days here I'm aware of 4 people I've met, having bags or wallets stolen.

go snorkelling at bazaruto then GET OUT!!! —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 196.28.232.2 (talk • contribs)

A train at Moatize
I've heard from Railways Africa that a new train arrived at Moatize in the province of Tete on January 30, 2010. From what I've read, I think it transports people between Beira and Moatize, even Catruza. (WT-en) CurvyEthyl 22:43, 17 September 2010 (EDT)

Mismatch between regions and map
The region division puts Zambézia province in Central Mozambique but the map puts it in Northern Mozambique. Nurg (talk) 08:47, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

New banner suggestion
I suggest a new banner for this article. /Yvwv (talk) 15:44, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

12-hr or 24-hr clock?
Which is more commonly use in Mozambique? Ground Zero (talk) 18:10, 6 October 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mozambique


text:
Talk:Mpumalanga

Regions
I am noting that fact that Mpumalanga consists of the Highveld, Escarpment and Lowveld, but are not going to break it up into those subregions yet. When more content is available an the page becomes bigger it might however be a good idea to break it up - (WT-en) Nick 03:43, 26 November 2006 (EST)
 * We are now two over the 7±2 rule - if we get more city guides coming along that city list will look a bit cluttered. -- (WT-en) Tim (writeme!) 10:09, 7 August 2007 (EDT)
 * Machadodorp and Emgwenya didn't make the list, it looks like, even though they seem to have more going on than Belfast. Lazarus1255 (talk) 19:13, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Since this is a bottom-level region article, it should list all the city articles it contains, even if that puts it over the 5–9 guideline. —Granger (talk · contribs) 19:52, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

I noted some mistakes
Lydenburg at the foot of the Long Tom Pass, surely you mean top, Sabie would be at the bottom. By air: is there not a new airport Eastgate, at Hoedspruit (although that is probalbly Limpopo, its very close).(WT-en) Flagman 07:12, 11 December 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Mpumalanga


text:
Talk:Mpumalanga Escarpment in a weekend

Rename?
Could this be renamed to something less awkward? Maybe it's just me (in which case I'll shut up), but this seems like it might have a more compact, catchier name. -- (WT-en) Jonboy 17:04, 15 January 2007 (EST)
 * It's not just you and I strongly encourage renaming the article, but I haven't any ideas that stand out as great alternatives. -- (WT-en) Andrew H. (Sapphire) 17:08, 15 January 2007 (EST)

 * Yip, it is a bit awkward. "Mpumalanga Escarpment in a weekend"? (WT-en) NJR_ZA 17:11, 15 January 2007 (EST)

 * That sounds much better than the current name and I'd support renaming it to that. -- (WT-en) Andrew H. (Sapphire) 17:16, 15 January 2007 (EST)

 * How about just Mpumalanga Escarpment? Why is "[preposition] a weekend" needed at all? Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:04, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mpumalanga Escarpment in a weekend