text:
Talk:Indonesia

Moving the capital?
BBC: Indonesia's planning minister announces capital city move. Not moving yet, but probably worth keeping an eye out for developments. Pashley (talk) 14:16, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

 * Yes, this has been on the cards for a long while now. Anyone who has visited Jakarta will know it could definitely use a lot less pressure (traffic, water usage, pollution, etc). It would also likely make it easier for visitors to check out the very interesting old city areas. Andrewssi2 (talk) 21:38, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Edits by User:Gsarwa
Can someone fix User:Gsarwa's edits here and in other Indonesia articles, which tend to be in broken English when I read them? Thanks. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 19:23, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

 * User talk:Gsarwa shows that the user's English ability has been an issue for several years now. There are only so many times you can ask someone to take some grammar lessons or to seek the help of a more proficient English speaker before posting. If I can understand the gist of what (s)he is writing, I am happy to copy-edit, but I will certainly not spend any time trying to decode what (s)he is trying to say in edits like this where it is not at all clear what is trying to be conveyed.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:44, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

 * What Thundering said. I routinely revert edits by Gsarwa that are in terrible English. Gsarwa's English never gets one iota better, ever, no matter what. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:01, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, that's Indonesian English for you.😅 Veracious (talk) 09:56, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

Rupiah prices
I think we should agree on the correct way of noting rupiah values, as I see mixed usage of the comma and the period as separators between places. TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 19:56, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

 * Actually, this has been discussed earlier at Wikivoyage talk:Currency/Archive 2014-2016. --TagaSanPedroAko (talk) 23:38, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
 * @TagaSanPedroAko Those edits were probably made by Indonesian user(s) since the usage of the comma and the period are reversed. What's more, they don't even wanted to bother searching the talk-page archive nor asking other user for an advice. Veracious (talk) 04:11, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

Tone of visa section
Does anyone else feel that the tone of the immigration section is a bit harsh and sounds like it was written by someone with an agenda? Could someone who's familiar with the matter take a look and see how balanced it is and if it's in the interest of the traveler?

--103.42.218.178 12:53, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

 * I don't know about visa, but Indonesians are very unhappy with their own country's rule of customs duty. Veracious (talk) 04:05, 1 May 2024 (UTC)

New Mobile Phone Registration Law
I've added a section about this in the main article, but also wanted to bring it up here to ask for others' opinions on if the way I've mentioned it in the main article is sufficient (and to see if anyone else here has had first hand experience with this).

Basically, it seems like the Indonesian government, in an effort to clamp down on phones being "smuggled" in, thereby bypassing taxes that would normally be assessed, has introduced a national "registration" system for phones last September. If you want to use a phone bought from overseas with an Indonesian SIM, you have to declare it at customs and pay taxes if it's valued at over US$500. For tourists and short-term visitors there's a provision for temporarily registering devices but it seems to be one-time-only. Compiling some anecdotes from people on Reddit and across the internet more generally, there are a few things that are going to be problematic for visitors:

1. If you don't fill the online form, get the QR code, use it to declare your phone at customs on arrival and register it there, going back to customs to register it after the fact will result in the full value of the phone being taxed at 40% (30% if you have an Indonesian tax ID). No $500 tax-free allowance.

2. The "temporary registration" that carrier stores can do for short-term visitors is absolutely one-time-only for that device, unless you also register it at customs within the first 60 days. If you miss this 60-day window, you will no longer be able to register it, and after the remainder of the 90 days' temporary registration, the phone will no longer work with an Indonesian SIM, making roaming the only option going forward with that device for its lifetime.

3. I put into my most recent edit edit, perhaps too hastily, that phones not permanently registered can only work with the new tourist plans and that that's what they're for. Given the lack of tourists, there's still very little information about whether this is actually the case. Some returning Indonesians have been able to do the temporary registration (and were the ones who found out about the 60-day deadline mentioned above) to use with regular postpaid or prepaid accounts, but not sure if this applies to visitors.

Anyone else have some insight into this? I can imagine this becoming a massive headache for repeat visitors of all kinds as travel opens back up. Official word is that phones roaming in Indonesia with a foreign SIM will be unaffected, so maybe some suggestions for SIMs from elsewhere with good roaming pricing for people who don't want to deal with this?

Jamar0303 (talk) 07:09, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

 * Hello, (talk)! The last time I was in Indonesia (April 2020 for 6 months) my phone, which was bought abroad, was basically unaffected by the new policy of registering your devices through the customs. AFAIK, as long as your device is not detected for the registration, you should be fine. I'll come back to this space, if there's anything new regarding past experiences from visitors, who are affected by it. ibhi19 (talk) 08:52, 22 June 2021 (UTC)

Variety of English
You're sure we should be affirmatively suggesting British spellings and language for all articles about this country? Why? See Talk:Indonesia/Archive 2013-2018 for a previous discussion. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:29, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Oops. Didn't check the spelling. I just copy pasted the template from a country that uses British and gave little regard to spelling. My bad. From what I know, they use a mix, but American is preferred. (edit 05:53: I'm getting confused here. Not Indonesia) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:31, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't know which is preferred, nor how much English is spoken in Indonesia, nowadays. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:44, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I think whichever form is used is OK, as long as there's internal consistency within an article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:45, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Wait no. I'm getting confused here with something else. But wasn't Indonesia a British colony from 1811-15? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:49, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * For four years? I have no idea. The only longish British presence I know about in what's now Indonesia was in Bengkulu, which the British traded with the Dutch for Malacca. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:47, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, when the Dutch handed all their colonies to the Brits, it's why a bunch of Asian and African colonies speak English, and not Dutch. But I believe it was later taken by the Japanese in WWII in 1942 and I have no idea about anything after that. But from what I know, the British influence on Indonesia is much more than American. (they even drive on the left) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:01, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Where do you get that idea from? The English-speaking countries that have had the biggest influence on Indonesia are Australia and the U.S., and it's not coincidental that those were the two main countries that insisted that the Dutch had to allow Indonesia to become independent and refused to support their attempt to retake the country after the Japanese occupation. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:21, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Okay, so I'll admit that I haven't really learned Indonesian history after WWII. Yeah, probably it's quite uncertain here. I'd not be surprised if British was used similar to neighbouring Malaysia and Singapore, but again, I don't know for sure/ I know a couple of people who went to Indonesia as a language teacher, so I'd also not be surprised if en-AU was used here. According to this website, it seems they use truck over lorry, but they use city center, unlike the US downtown. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 07:35, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh, on those four years in the early 19th century: The British must have been caretakers while the Netherlands was occupied by Napoleon, then gave it back to the Dutch. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:59, 10 August 2021 (UTC)

It's been a while since I went to Indonesia, but English is generally not widely spoken there. Bali is of course an exception because of its reliance on the tourism industry. When I went to Tanjung Pinang, most people did not speak English, and I had to use whatever Malay I knew to communicate with the cashier at the supermarket, for instance. And as for the 19th century, the British had colonies on Sumatra, but they traded their colonies on Sumatra to the Dutch in exchange for getting Malacca. Singapore was in fact colonised by the British from Sumatra. The dog2 (talk) 22:59, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Pinging who has a lot more experience with Indonesia. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:20, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

 * I've done a lot of digging into what spelling is used, and here's what I found. I've given more leeway to Bali since that's one of the few places where English is actually spoken to a decent amount unlike other places like Jakarta where English is known by very little.

 * 1) Wikipedia uses Australian English such as in Bali or Western New Guinea, but also British English as well like Indonesia or Jakarta.
 * 2) The government tends to use British spelling, however, you'd need to do a lot of digging to see whether Australian or British is used. I did the easy check on whether a country uses truck or lorry. Indonesia seems to be using truck.
 * 3) The Bali tourism website uses British English although the spelling differences are so unidentifiable that no words differ from spelling
 * 4) Their most read newspaper site Kompas, is only written in Bahasa Indonesia. (so that doesn't help)
 * 5) There is no consistency on Wikivoyage. Some and most articles are written in British English, others are in American English. This is however, not unusual for those using English as a second or third language. There's a similar issue with Bahrain articles too with most of them ending up using Canadian spelling.
 * It is quite clear that Indonesia either uses British or Australian spelling, and not American spelling, but the choice of Australian or British spelling is difficult to pick although the few differences here don't really matter too much for a travel guide (except from program and maybe catalog). This is probably caused due to as what I mentioned above. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:00, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It's great that you did all that research. I still doubt there's more British than American influence in Indonesia, but Australia, Singapore and Malaysia are neighbors and are all heavily influenced by British English. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:14, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It probably may have used American after WWII, but probably due to influence from neighbouring Australia, Singapore and Malaysia, it's not a surprise why they've gone back to British/Australian. But this could explain the preference for truck, not lorry, since both Singapore and Australia use truck. Not sure about Malaysia though. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 08:50, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * So, uncontroversially, switching? (It might as well be better since most of our articles are written in Australian/British english anyway) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:11, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * My experience was that lorry was always used in Malaysia. So, based on your research, I agree with a preference for British or Australian English, but I would not support people wasting time changing U.S. spellings in articles in which they're used consistently. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:16, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Even if we switch, I don't think anyone will be scavenging for these spelling errors, unless you just come across it by chance. (based on the experience of Bahrain) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:21, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * And you know how I said that the newspapers are in Bahasa, well it seems that I've found one newspaper (The Jakarta Post), and it mostly uses en-GB/AU, but there's the occasional couple of American spellings in some articles (not surprising though). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:19, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, interestingly, Jakarta and Borobudur which are guide and star articles, seem to be using en-AU/GB rather than en-US except for one word which I spotted in both the articles. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:34, 25 August 2021 (UTC)
 * We can't expect non-English-speaking countries to be consistent (or even much bothered about) their use of different spelling conventions when writing in English. But it doesn't make sense to provide guidance to use American spelling if it isn't what is most commonly used in Indonesia and isn't most commonly used in our articles. I support changing the guidance. Thanks to SHB2000 for doing the research. Ground Zero (talk) 11:47, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

✅. Changed to Australian, not British (because that is what is used in Bali which is the biggest tourist spot in Indonesia as well as the preference for truck.). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 11:49, 25 August 2021 (UTC)

Further discussion
British English is the de facto English language used by all government departments, in both legal and common parlance. The British ruled huge areas of Indonesia (indeed, many countries of Asia), including Sumartra, Java and parts of Borneo. Culturally, most of Indonesia is still strongly aligned with the United Kingdom regarding English, and even those areas previously under Dutch rule now align with British English. Yes, I accept that there are isolated 'hotspots' which are proliferated with Australian tourists, and I also accept that certain shops might follow the traditions of their American owners - but neither of those give any justifiable reason to change from the de facto and legal usage of British English for Indonesian articles in the English language. 78.32.143.113 16:33, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

Postal codes in addresses
I don't believe Indonesia is one of the exceptions to the guidelines that normally call for the omission of postal codes in addresses, but I wanted to double-check on that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:39, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Nope, or at least per wv:postal codes, we're not supposed to include it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 05:55, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Thanks. In that case, they'll have to be deleted from listings in the Purwokerto article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:27, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 09:30, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Monas UpClose.JPG

 * No FoP in Indonesia. Do we want this? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 09:43, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Maybe it's not of outstanding beauty, but it is important, so I think so. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:05, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 10:08, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Sex outside marriage made illegal?
BBC Indonesia passes criminal code banning sex outside marriage.

I'm pretty sure using rent-a-wench services or being obviously gay could get you in considerable trouble already, at least in conservative areas. But will this make it worse? What about a straight unmarried couple travelling together? Pashley (talk) 13:08, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

 * @Pashley Sex outside marriage is a sin for every religion in Indonesia, so nothing suprising here. Veracious (talk) 04:28, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

 * Sure, it is a sin in many religions, though I think one that followers of most religions fairly often commit. The question for a travel guide, though, is whether we need to warn travellers about this law. That will depend mainly on how it is enforced. Pashley (talk) 04:39, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @Pashley So far, they only swatting the shady prostitution place like in local boarding house. Authorities are rarely swatting hotel/motel, especially in an area with lots of foreign people, because they understood that foreigners do have sex outside marriage. Veracious (talk) 08:10, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 10:52, 25 January 2023 (UTC)
 * A best architectural mix (26004445313).jpg
 * This has to be uploaded locally if we want to keep it. We probably should. Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:41, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

Incomprehensible advice for vegetarians
In the section Dietary restrictions we say
 * Strict vegetarians and vegans will have a tough time in Indonesia […] You can, however, ask them to make something without meat, which can be indicated by asking for "vegetarian" or "tanpa daging dan/atau hasil laut (seafood)".

For me, who don't understand the language, this is very unclear. If they understand "vegetarian", then why not just use that word? Does the dash mean that "dan" and "atau" are synonymous (in this context) or something else? Why is the seafood parenthesis included in the quoted phrase? Would I get seafood if I ask for "tanpa daging dan hasil laut", or if I ask for "atau hasil laut"? –LPfi (talk) 16:43, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I agree the quoted phrase is confusing (almost comically so) for someone who doesn't understand Indonesian. Google Translate tells me that it means "without meat and/or seafood", itself a somewhat unusual and ambiguous phrase in English. If I want to communicate that I eat neither meat nor seafood, I'm not sure whether or how to modify the phrase to get the point across. —Granger (talk · contribs) 20:00, 21 January 2024 (UTC)
 * @LPfi Maybe because sometimes seaweed are categorized as seafood, because they came from the sea, even though it's not a meat. The correct sentence would be "tanpa seafood" (yes, almost everyone use English to call "seafood") or "tanpa daging ikan" ("without fish meat", which sometimes also means "without crabs, shells, and squids"). Veracious (talk) 09:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * But if I want vegetarian food (no meat, no poultry, no fish, no crabs etc.)? Can I then ask for "vegetarian" food or might that not be understood? If not, what should I say? If I understand correctly, asking for "tanpa seafood" could get me a beef (I assume tanpa means "without"). As I neither know the grammar nor the individual words, I need a phrase I can use, not only fragments to combine in ways not known to me. (Yes, if "hasil laut" is seafood including seaweed, but "seafood" is non-vegetarian seafood, then I understand the parenthesis, but I still need the complete phrase.) –LPfi (talk) 12:22, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * @LPfi Most of restaurant in Indonesia know what vegetarian is. Now for the street food stalls.. to ask for vegetarian menu, you can say "Tolong sayuran aja, jangan ada/pakai daging-dagingan." (vegetable only, no meat, please)
 * (Sorry for the late reply, i don't put this page on my watchlist) Veracious (talk) 08:04, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * what about the use of terasi? g e c k t r e k (Talk) 08:16, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Gecktrek "Terasi" is basically a shrimp paste (sometimes made from a fish). I don't think it counted as a vegetarian menu. Veracious (talk) 08:22, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * How do you pronounce the "/"? Please add the advice, including the complete phrase (including any "please" etc.) to the paragraph in question. It is hard to do for me, who would have to just blindly copy your advice. –LPfi (talk) 08:17, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @LPfi Hmm, ok, i will try to do a long-phrase. Here are some of my examples:
 * "Saya vegetarian, jadi saya ingin pesan makanan yang sayur-sayuran saja. Tolong jangan ada daging-dagingan."
 * (I'm a vegetarian, so I want to order vegetable-only dishes. No meat, please."
 * "Apa ada makanan yang sayuran saja? Karena saya vegetarian, jadi saya tidak makan daging."
 * (Is there any vegetable-only dishes? Because I'm a vegetarian, so I don't eat meats.)
 * "Apa saya bisa pesan menu sayuran saja? Soalnya saya tidak makan daging."
 * (May I order vegetable-only dishes? Because I don't eat any meat.)
 * Hope this helps. Veracious (talk) 08:34, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Could something like that be said shorter? If one relies on a phrasebook, those phrases are awkwardly long. Realistically, to use them, one would point at them in the Wikivoyage page on one's screen. Are they the ones you would suggest for that use? Are there any you could learn and tell aloud? –LPfi (talk) 09:28, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * By the "including any please" I meant phrases that can be used as such, without any additions you would assume I'd add by myself. –LPfi (talk) 09:30, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * use of something like google translate on your phone? g e c k t r e k (Talk) 10:12, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @LPfi Can you write the "short phrase" that you desire in English language? Or.. you could've just simply use google translate on your phone, like @Gecktrek said. Veracious (talk) 10:27, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I would say "Do you have any vegetarian food?" I could of course try to use Google translate myself, but I wouldn't know whether I can trust the translation. I don't think we should recommend Google instead of giving specific advice. –LPfi (talk) 14:09, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @LPfi Hmm, you could say "Apa ada makanan khusus vegetarian?" (Is there any food for vegetarian?) Veracious (talk) 04:54, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * That one seems reasonable. Does it have issues with "vegetarian" understood in a way the traveller wouldn't expect, such as your getting fish and shrimps? –LPfi (talk) 07:48, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @LPfi That depends on the food seller's knowledge. Most of upsacle restaurant know about vegetarian. But if you are having a feast on street food, you can reassure them by saying "Juga jangan pakai ikan atau udang" (Also, no fish or shrimps) Veracious (talk) 07:15, 10 June 2024 (UTC)
 * As a Malay-speaker, I'd translate that as "Also, don't use fish or shrimp," which would be a command to the seller. Indonesians wouldn't use "Saya juga tidak makan ikan atau makanan laut" ("I also don't eat fish or seafood")? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:19, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Crime section
Is the crime in Indonesia really as bad as is described? Maybe things have changed, but I don't recall it being that dangerous. Petty thefts were common, but I didn't find it any less safe than say, India with regard to violent crime. The dog2 (talk) 14:42, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

 * Agreed that the article sounds a bit alarmist, but it's also sending mixed messages: "car jackings, burglaries and armed robberies are relatively common" on one line, "crime remains mostly non-violent, and guns are rare" on the next. I've taken a stab at making it more consistent and less alarmist. Jpatokal (talk) 21:52, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
 * @The dog2 That's actually depends on the area. Veracious (talk) 09:40, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I think we should be a bit more specific in terms of where the crime happens, as Indonesia is a very populous country, so the situation would differ by province. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 10:01, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Indonesia


text:
Talk:Indonesian phrasebook

What are 10000 and 100000 called? Malagasy has names for the powers of ten up to a million (tapitrisa), and "ribu" is an obvious cognate of "arivo". -(WT-en) phma 12:42, 28 Mar 2004 (EST) - There are independent words for 10.000 and 100.000 which are borrowings from Sanskrit. 10.000 = koti and 100.000 = laksa. But 10.000 is just called sepuluh ribu and 100.000 seratus ribu. (WT-en) Meursault2004 16:50, 28 Mar 2004 (EST) -

I'm not familiar with Malayan languages. I'm wondering if Indonesian and Malaysian are sufficiently different to have different phrasebooks. --(WT-en) Evan 17:47, 28 Mar 2004 (EST) -

Well grammatically both languages are not that different, but idiomatically the difference can be great. So I think Indonesian and Malaysian should have different phrasebooks. Obviously the Malaysian phrasebook should be written by a native speaker of Malaysian Malay.

Or to save space, the Indonesian and Malaysian phrasebook could be combined into just one phrasebook. And only the differences between Indonesian and Malaysian Malay will be higlighted. For example "Police" is called "polis" in Malaysia and "polisi" in Indonesia. (WT-en) Meursault2004 19:02, 28 Mar 2004 (EST)

 * I was just thinking about this too... having travelled in both, I think the similarities are much greater than the differences from a traveller's point of view, so for time being I'll plunge forward and redirect Malay phrasebook here with a notice added to the beginning. (WT-en) Jpatokal 10:56, 8 Nov 2004 (EST)

 * Having travelled a little more in Indonesia I've changed my mind, so now they're separate again. (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:44, 6 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Orwellian newspeak
Indonesian is indeed noted by several for its fondness for Orwellian newspeak feature. But this feature is actually not a legacy of Soeharto's New Order society, which is somewhat reminiscent of Orwell's 1984 society. The truth is less romantic or intriguing. It is rather a peculiarity of Indonesian as an Austronesian language. Many if not all Austronesian languages, as Indonesian, show a certain fondness for bisyllabic words. And indeed, most of these acronyms are bisyllabic. (WT-en) Meursault2004 15:56, 5 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * But why doesn't Malay do it then? In Malaysia it's the acronym that rules. (WT-en) Jpatokal 00:48, 6 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Well as for Malay, the acronym or rather the 'acronymisation' of loose words is another manifestation of the same phenomenon. In Javanese for example, this feature also concerns everyday's words, not just political or socio-economical concepts.

There is furthermore one important difference between Orwellian Newspeak and Indonesian. In 1984's Newspeak there is an attempt to minimise the vocabulary of the English, while in Indonesian the vocabulary has grown extensively the last 50 years or so. Another interesting fact about Orwellian Newspeak is that this may have been based on facts not just fiction. The American and I think the British tried to create a simplified version of the English language. (WT-en) Meursault2004 04:14, 6 Jun 2005 (EDT)

 * OK, maybe you're reading a little too much into my flippant metaphor. Feel free to change it if you can think of something better...  but quite seriously, the only other language I know of that practices this so regularly is Soviet-era Russian (Komintern, Vagonmashimpexpstroy, etc.) (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:26, 6 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Well I dont know the reason why the Soviets did that. Maybe they did that to cover up the true meaning of the words? I don't know. But it is also possible that there is some Soviet influence to be discerned in Indonesian. It was actually not Soeharto but Soekarno who started this fondness for what I call 'acronymisation'. Soekarno is also noted for his leftist sympathies. He is even accused of being a communist by some. (WT-en) Meursault2004 04:31, 6 Jun 2005 (EDT)

Anda vs kamu
The phrasebook uses the formal/polite Anda form, not the informal kamu/mu, so I've rolled back this change:

 * What is your name? : Namanya siapa? (NUM-muh-nyuh shah-puh?)
 * What is your name? : Siapa namamu? (shah-puh NUM-muh-moo?)

Is it worth it to list both? (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:26, 5 March 2007 (EST)
 * The lower one is the right one. "Namanya siapa?" means "What is the name (of something)?". Veracious (talk) 04:28, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Use of "Apakah"
I speak Malay and not really Indonesian, so it wouldn't shock me if this is correct Indonesian, but it sure sounds strange to me:

"Apakah Anda bicara bahasa Inggris?"

I would translate that as "What you speak English?" Of course that doesn't make sense. Is "Adakah Anda bicara bahasa Inggris?" the intended sentence? Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:59, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

 * And the form of words I was taught in Indonesian class back when was "Saudara/Saudari bisa bicara bahasa Inggris?" "Bisa" means "poison" in Malay, but of course in Indonesian, it means "can", for which word, Malays use "boleh". :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:32, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

 * The same case can be said for the phrase "What's your name?": we said "Siapa namamu?" which actually is literally translated to, "Who your name?". For me learning this in English the first time, it's startling, yet all Indonesians are accustomed to say it that way. It is the same case as "Apakah" in asking a yes or no question. You can also ask "Anda bisa bicara bahasa Inggris?" in your case, which is supposedly similar in structure to a couple European languages, but for us that is impolite. The more correct way if we want to simplify it would be "Bisakah Anda bicara bahasa Inggris?" which is translatable quite literally to English (the suffix -kah is used when asking questions) and that's what I adopted in this phrasebook.Othello95 (talk) 22:12, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

 * I understand that Malays and Indonesians have "false friends" words, in which case speakers of both languages must try to somehow get around it. It's the fact we cannot change, unfortunately.

 * Understood. I guess this is another difference between Malay and Indonesian, because I have trouble imagining "Apakah" being used in such sentences in Malay. Granted that I usually spoke village Malay of the Terengganu dialect, but I think it's generally still the case that Malay is usually less formal than Indonesian, so I believe "Anda boleh cakap Bahasa Inggeris?" would be quite polite in Malay, given the use of the polite "Anda" form of "you"; I would usually use "awak", but some native speakers were claiming that nowadays, it's considered impolite by some people. I also normally use "Apa nama awak?", or in more familiar settings "Apa namamu?", but in Terengganu dialect, all kinds of formal rules were constantly flouted in everyday speech, and when I visited the state again in 2003, people were speaking standard language and using more formal language quite a lot. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:47, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

 * I am a non-native but proficient Indonesian speaker and would definitely use 'apakah' in this way, generally, but not in the specific context where I was asking if someone speaks English. So in a formal discussion I might use 'apakah' to open a question about whether something was really the case: "Apakah memang anggaran tidak tersedia?" (Is the budget really not available?). For something less formal like asking if someone speaks English, I would ask "Apa Bapak/Ibu bisa berbahasa Inggris?", using "apa" as the question marker. You'll notice I didn't use "Anda". I am rarely in a situation where I feel happy to use it - it sounds stilted and impersonal in a country where everything is about building personal relations. I would rather ask their name first "Maaf, nama Bapak/Ibu siapa?" before continuing with that: "Apa Pak Tarjo bisa berbahasa Inggeris?. Tawonmadu (talk) 02:36, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

 * Tawonmadu is right in this case. Using "Bapak/Ibu" in a sentence, where you want to ask the person of being able to speak English is correct. Although in Jakarta for example, sometimes asking "Apa anda bisa Bahasa Inggris" is polite enough because of using the word "Anda" (except you're right for the building personal relations). But I would advise using the word Bapak/Ibu as the sense of politeness and admiration. If you know the person already inside and outside of work environment, using both slangs "lo (which means you)" and "gue (means I)" for integrating into the society would almost amaze them every time. It's of course impolite for addressing with "lo" and "gue" to the elderly and someone who is a lot older than you so using both words is only advisable for conversations amongst the same age as you are. ibhi19 (talk) 13:28, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

 * These are real differences from Malay, at least as I know the language. The simplest way to find out whether someone speaks English in Malay is to simply ask "Boleh cakap Bahasa Inggeris?" or to use the same sentence beginning with some signifier of "you" (awak, Anda, or perhaps the English word "you", which at least used to be used a lot in Malaysian cities, especially on the West Coast). Sure, you can use polite expressions like "makcik", "pakcik" and so forth, but if you're already using expressions like that, you speak Malay and aren't likely to need to know whether your interlocutor can speak English. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:04, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Pseudo-transliteration for glottal stops
I don't think advising people to pronounce "nak" as "nack" is good. Actually, it will encourage stereotypically "orang putih" ("white people's") pronunciations. I won't hold up the solutions in the Malay phrasebook as anything close to perfect, but at least there's an attempt to deal with glottal stops there, by using the formerly used ' sign. I'd encourage editors of this phrasebook to look at the Malay phrasebook, since the two languages are so closely related. And while you're there, by all means edit anything you think you can improve (but not by making everything overly Indonesian, please :-) Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:28, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

 * I think "WHACK-too" for waktu is even worse, as many English-speakers pronounce "wh" as a "hw" sound. "WOK-too" would be closer, but the English "k" consonant really does not resemble a glottal stop. I really disagree with teaching people "white people's pronunciation". Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:43, 17 December 2017 (UTC)

 * It might help if there was an agreed and robust way of representing the glottal stop in the pseudo-transliteration scheme. Tf there was a guideline it would give a basis for going in with large scale edits of existing text. I've been using a single quotation mark but that can cause problems when combined with other formatting. For "waktu" using the quotation mark glottal stop, I would transliterate as WA'-too. Tawonmadu (talk) 01:22, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

 * I'd use "wah'-too", even though there's no "h" sound. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:27, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

 * I'd personally recommend "WAK-too" as a preferred pronunciation to "Waktu" just because it sounds closer to how the natives speak and usually the 'k' sound is apparent. ibhi19 (talk) 07:37, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

 * What do you mean by "apparent"? It is a glottal stop, is it not? In Malay it is. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:49, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

 * Also, keep in mind that a lot of English speakers will pronounce "wak" as "wack", not with an a as in "father". That's a no-good way to pronounce Indonesian. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:50, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

 * Aaah, alright. I'm kind of confused of how the westerners pronounce "wak" and "whack", though, since I didn't realise it is how they mostly pronounce it. And yes, it is also a glottal stop in Indonesian as well. Sorry. ibhi19 (talk) 08:18, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

 * There are many different accents of English. For most Americans, whack=wack. Not so in some other places. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:19, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Adding list of newspeak-y/popular abbreviations
I recently stumbled onto this page and I don't really know if the "newspeak" (or slang) section worth to add, because Indonesians (especially living in Jakarta, Bandung, and other big cities) tend to use slangs to shorten the sentence while talking.

For example:

Popular abbreviations: Buryam (BOOR-yum): Bubur Ayam, or Toprak (Top-ruck): Ketoprak

Popular slangs: Lo/elu (low/uh-loo) = you, Gue/Gua (goo-way/goo-wah) = I ibhi19 (talk) 13:43, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

 * I would say absolutely include much-used slang. These are words that as a Malay-speaker, I don't know. Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:30, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

 * Alright then. I'm going to collect some data first and then coming back here to add more. ibhi19 (talk) 13:45, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

After many considerations, I'd just put the link to Indonesian Slangs' Wikipedia page due to their extensive list of slangs and common abbreviations, if it's possible. Putting those extended lists here is kind of unnecessary. ibhi19 (talk) 06:54, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

 * The governing policy on links to Wikipedia is shown at Links to Wikipedia, but I think this one is OK. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:19, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

 * Hello! Now I've added some common and popular abbreviations and mostly are still spoken and understood by many Indonesians, particularly in big cities. I hope that might help in the long run. ibhi19 (talk) 17:13, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Does anyone ever use Tuan?
I hear this word used v e r y rarely, and it usually sounds a little bit weird: forced at best, creepy at worst. I would never consider using it to an Indonesian. Is that misguided? Tawonmadu (talk) 02:24, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

 * Do Indonesians ever use it to talk to foreigners? Also, is it ever used as a title in Indonesia, as Tuan and Puan are used in Malaysia? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:31, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

 * I get called it very rarely, and it sounds a bit obsequious. Never used as a title here. The only time I regularly hear it is in the construction 'tuan rumah' meaning 'host'. Tawonmadu (talk) 03:27, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

 * As an Indonesian, I can confirm, yes. Nowadays it is rare to use 'tuan' and 'nyonya' in everyday conversation amongst Indonesians. It is more of a symbol and also has a special use in monarchial constitution such as in Yogyakarta, where the governing body is still held by Sultanate system, led by Sultan Hamengkubuwono X (the tenth). ibhi19 (talk) 08:15, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

 * When my parents were called "Tuan" and "Puan" in the village we used to live in, early on, they pushed back hard and got people to stop. Definitely obsequious: It's more than "Sir" and "Madam", approaching "My Lord" and "Milady". If it's used so rarely in Indonesia, by all means remove it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:35, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

PUNK-gang and GO-rank
I would not think it helpful to advise learners to use those sounds, as per the recent edit. Using the pronunciation style guide of WV, I would go for PAHNG-gang and GO-rehng. (Non-native but BA and MA Indonesian language, 35 years in Indonesia). Tawonmadu (talk) 15:11, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

 * Ah, I see it now. You have far more experience on the language and the life there so I agree with your suggestion on how to pronounce the words. I'm an Indonesian native and yet still couldn't figure out how to explain the pronunciation, though. ibhi19 (talk) 13:05, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

"O" as in "lock"
"Lock", throughout most of the U.S.A. and at least some of Canada, is "lahk". We need another "as in" for this vowel. I think Indonesian "o" is not usually an "aw" sound as in "saw", but closer to "oa" in "boat". It's an imperfect analogy ("o" in Indonesian has no "w" sound or "oo" sound at the end), but it's closer than "ah". Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:21, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

 * In the Malay phrasebook, we have o "like 'ow' in `low', but without the `w' sound". Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:22, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

 * We can use that as well. "O" as in "go" or as in "box" is acceptable as well. ibhi19 (talk) 07:55, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

 * "Box" has exactly the same problem as "lock": it's pronounced "bahks" in most of the U.S. and a lot of Canada. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:59, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

 * You're right. We can use the same analogy as mentioned in Malay phrasebook, then. It sounds exactly as you proposed. ibhi19 (talk) 08:03, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

Oh-rang
Tawonmadu and Ibhi19 have been doing a lot of great work on pseudo-transliterations, but I still think "orang" would be better transliterated as "OH-rahng", because the English word "rang" is pronounced with a very different vowel than "A" in "father" by most North American English speakers, among many others. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:51, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

 * Further to the point: Keep in mind how most English-speakers pronounce "orangutan" (oh-RAEN-guh-taen would be my attempt at a psuedo-transliteration of their pronunciation). It would be better for them not to use that pronunciation while in Indonesia. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:10, 5 August 2018 (UTC)

Arabic numerals
From the article:

Just like English, Indonesia uses the Latin alphabet system and Arabic numerals.

People who speak European languages like to claim that we use Arabic numerals, but the numbers actually used in Arabic texts such as the Qur'an are not the same as the ones we use. Indonesian uses the kinds of numbers we use in English, albeit with some divergences in decimal use. But anyone expecting actual Arabic numerals will be surprised. So what should we say? Per Wikipedia, maybe we should call them "Western Arabic numerals". Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:12, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Placement of abbreviations section
I don't know when or why it got put at the beginning of the "Consonants" section, but that's confusing and inappropriate. It has to be moved down the page. The question is, how far and where? For the time being, I'll move it after the "Grammar" section and before "Phrase list" in order to solve the immediate problem, but if you have a better idea, please let us know, so that we can discuss it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:18, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

 * See Indonesian phrasebook. I've made it a first-order section of this phrasebook. It may be good to tweak it, because the infobox bleeds slightly into the next section. Do you think it shouldn't be a first-order section? What do you think about its placement now? Comparison. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:24, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

 * I fixed the overlap! It was as easy as deleting an extra line break at the bottom of the infobox. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:27, 22 January 2020 (UTC)

Pagebanner
Hello, I'm proposing to change the pagebanner of Indonesian phrasebook to one of these choices below. These are all self-made, and I also take edit request and or new banner requests. I spent two days creating these banners, following the result of the search query suggested in Banner_Expedition. You can give constructive criticism to these works. Thank you. Bennylin (talk) 20:34, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Thank you, Bennylin, for substituting the mosque and people-in-a-room banners in place of the default banners on the Sundanese and Manado Malay phrasebooks. That leaves the batik banner from among these three, and since I don't think any of the others is clearly better than that one, anyway (the mosque one is probably about as good in its own way), I'd be happy to see the batik banner on this page. And it's definitely better than the existing banner, so if that's the result of these discussions, I think we should be happy, thank Bennylin and put any remaining hurt feelings behind us. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:32, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Agreed, no hard feelings :). I will leave the changing to you guys. Bennylin (talk) 22:55, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 * ThunderingTyphoons! and The dog2, are you OK with this batik banner for now? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:57, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, the banner is good for me. The dog2 (talk) 18:58, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's very nice.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 19:11, 28 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Replaced accordingly. Thanks, everyone! Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:45, 28 April 2021 (UTC)

"the rules of how to spell new loan words from English"
From the article:

But the rules of how to spell new loan words from English are still different, for example "televisi" (Indonesian) - "televisyen" (Malay), "polisi" (Indonesian) - "polis" (Malay), "universitas" (Indonesian) - "universiti" (Malay), etc.

I'm sure televisi and polisi come from Dutch televisie and politie. Universiteit is Dutch for university, so perhaps the Indonesian word is borrowed from Portuguese universidade or perhaps directly from Latin universitas, but why is there any reason to suggest that any of these are "new loan words" and definitely from English? I think we need to delete or suitably edit this sentence. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:03, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

 * I've expanded this section more. Bennylin (talk) 17:37, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_language

It is called Malaysian, not Malay, by its government. (commenting from mobile) Bennylin (talk) 00:14, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the link. It's gone back and forth between Bahasa Melayu and Bahasa Malaysia, but we call it Malay on this site. If you'd like to argue to rename it Malaysian on this site, please start a thread at Talk:Malay phrasebook. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:45, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

 * In Singapore, the language is called Bahasa Melayu, and that term is also understood in Malaysia. In any case, "Malay" is the most common term used in English to refer to the language, so that's what we use here. The dog2 (talk) 16:11, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Speaking of which, I just created a redirect from Malaysian phrasebook to Malay phrasebook, since "Malaysian" is indeed the word most Indonesians use when speaking English. The dog2 (talk) 17:02, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:43, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * WV banner Indonesian phrasebook Batik art.jpg

 * It may be that User:Bennylin nominated this for deletion because he doesn't like the banner, but his argument that it's a copyrighted artwork is probably meritorious. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:59, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Do you we want to save it from the axe by locally uploading it? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:21, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

 * I don't know. Do you think an image of a painting can be fair use? -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:34, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

 * I won't pretend to know anything about fair use. Legally justified or not, the deletion nomination strikes me as a rather petty response to the above thread which didn't go user:Bennylin's way: "Oh they won't do what I want, so I'll force them to change the banner by having it deleted." Great collegiality.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:40, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Now it's a personal attack. Nice. A new level of low. I would much appreciate it if we can have a civil discussion and didn't resort to ad hominem. And you didn't comment a single thing on the painting in question was illegally uploaded as public domain, as if the buyer of said art was holding the copyright of the painting. Bennylin (talk) 13:21, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

 * I said your argument is probably meritorious. That's a comment. Sorry you think my remark was an attack. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:13, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the indentation mistake. I'm referring to ThunderingTyphoons' calling my deletion nomination as petty response. Although I also thought about your comment, "it may be Bennylin", as if you haven't seen the nom page, but you pointing finger at me, while it's clear from the nom page I have left my signature there. Bennylin (talk) 17:38, 25 April 2021 (UTC)
 * No, I said it may be that you nominated it for deletion because you don't like it, and I then expressed an opinion about your argument. I didn't say it might or might not have been you who nominated it, and how could I have expressed an opinion about your argument without having read it? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:55, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

 * An ad hominem is criticism directed at a person, rather than their arguments or actions. It's not an ad hominem to describe how your actions seemed to me. You could have said in the above discussion that the artwork was copyrighted, and thus explained that you were going to nominate it for deletion, but instead you didn't mention copyright at all, preferring to focus instead on our lack of objectivity. Then you made the nomination on Commons without telling us and before the banner discussion had concluded, leaving the bot to notify us that it was up for deletion. That behaviour to me came across as not collegial.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:10, 26 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Agree with TT here. That's not consensus. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 01:48, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
 * We resolved this disagreement, I think to everyone's satisfaction, with a much better pagebanner. Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:19, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Talk:Indonesian phrasebook
Hi travellers, you're all invited for this discussion. Suggestion and ideas welcomed. Many thanks. Bennylin (talk) 22:09, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

d:Wikidata:WikiProject Indonesia/Banner
It has 72 rotating banners 😂😂😂 Bennylin (talk) 22:35, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Gotta add more then, since there are new Indonesian city/region pages that have been created. Veracious (talk) 05:39, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

So wrong
This is wrong on so many levels. Firstly, Z in Latin was never a dz sound and neither was Q in English a kw. And I have no idea why you included the ipa pronunciaiton for other languages too 76.157.162.44 21:31, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Indonesian phrasebook


text:
Talk:Indore

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Eventual dotm?
This looks like a really good place to visit, but the article is in rough shape. It would be really nice to update and copy edit it for an eventual dotm feature, if anyone would like to meet that challenge. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:01, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Indore


text:
Talk:Infernetto

Is this place even real? --130.111.98.109 10:35, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

This place needs some work on. --130.111.98.109 11:12, 22 May 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Infernetto


text:
Talk:Inhotim

VFD Discussion
An outdoor museum/botanical park of less than 1 sq. km with no accommodations.
 * Create Brumadinho and Merge and redirect there. (WT-en) texugo 21:46, 26 April 2011 (EDT)
 * Concur with Texugo, but is there not a less unfriendly tag to use on the page than nominated for deletion? • • • (WT-en) Peter (Southwood) Talk 03:25, 29 April 2011 (EDT)

Result: merged to Brumadinho. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 19:49, 4 September 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Inhotim


text:
Talk:Innsbruck

Hotel Binders
Hello, I have stayed in Hotel Binders, actually I am writing this from here right now. And Im curious as hotel binders does not seem "Splurge" to me. Its more midrange. 90 euros for 2 people for one night. splurge is more 150-300+ imho. As such I am changing it

See
hmm, somehow my ip-address is shown as the editor, although i was logged in... anyway, i just finished translating the "see" section from de:Innsbruck, but there were a lot of rare&special terms that i'm not sure i translated correctly... i hope, mistakes in translation will be corrected by somebody who's in this area of expertise

rewrite paragraph on Innsbruck Card
The following piece is a big mess, lacking clarity, clearly defined "when should be used" and way too long. Could anyone help in rewriting it?

 * The Innsbruck-Card [9] offers free entrance to all of Innsbruck's sights, free use of public transportation (including the TS line). It also includes a one-time ascent&descent to Nordkette, Patscherkofel and Axamer Lizum and free entrance to Swarovski Kristallwelten [10] in Wattens. The Innsbruck-Card is valid for 24/48/72 hours and can be purchased at Innsbruck Information (Burggraben 3), the TI in Hauptbahnhof, and several museums and tourist offices. Tip: The Innsbruck card is pretty expensive, 25/30/35 euro for 1/2/3 day cards. And daily or weekly public transport cards are cheap - the "all inclusive" sales pitch is alluring to disoriented travelers, but make sure the discounts are worth the initial price. If you are not seeing these major entrance-fee sites, remember that you may buy more than one daily card at a time, as the 24 hours only starts once validated. Be sure to compare with the price of a weekly ticket too.

--(WT-en) DenisYurkin 10:40, 6 February 2010 (EST)

Winters are cold and snowy
I would not confirm this. Due to the Föhn (a zephyr-wind) sometimes even in witner it might be warm and with lesse snow. White christmas is in Innsbruck a 50/50 chance. Snow in january or february might be more reliable. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) Paschberg (talk • contribs) 5 November 2011

 * Please plunge forward and revise the article by adding what you know. – (WT-en) Vidimian 08:51, 5 November 2011 (EDT)

New Banner
You asked for thoughts, Bart Ender. I prefer the new banner, because the scene seems more distinctive to me than snow-capped mountains. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:53, 28 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree - it looks very nice! --Nick talk 22:54, 28 May 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Innsbruck


text:
Talk:Interior (British Columbia)

I changed:

Okanagan: East and West

to:

Kootenays: East and West

As I am sure that is what the contributor meant to write. I live in the area and there is no East and West Okanagan but there is an East and West Kootenays.

(WT-en) bulliver 21:31, 24 February 2006 (EST)

Upon further reflection, I think this page should be removed altogether, and the information moved to British Columbia. The reasoning: I don't think too many people, and especially not tourists, search for or use this term. Also, the 'interior' encompasses several distinct regions that already have their own pages. In my opinion the logical split of regions from a tourist's perspective would be:

 * Vancouver Island/Gulf Islands
 * Lower Mainland/Fraser Valley/Sunshine coast
 * East/West Kootenays
 * Rocky Mountains
 * Caribou/Chilcotin
 * Peace River/Alaska Highway
 * Thompson/Shuswap
 * Okanagan/Similkameen
 * North Coast/Queen Charlottes

Each of these regions could be broken down logically into smaller regions down the road (and some are already) if the pages become too unwieldy whereas 'interior' doesn't match with any other region in the BC geographical hierarchy except for Southwestern British Columbia, which is another page with the same problems ie: a huge geographical area with many distinct regions, and a name that neither tourists nor locals use. Comment? (WT-en) bulliver 01:43, 1 March 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Interior (British Columbia)


text:
Talk:Interior Alaska

Naming
It's "Interior", not Central. Central is a town name.

Region borders?
We've never really defined the borders of the Alaska regions, so I'm not entirely sure where this region extends to. For now I've de-orphaned Chicken by including it here, but there may be a better region to include that town in (it's nearly on the border with Canada, not too far from Dawson City). -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 14:24, 4 July 2007 (EDT)

Chicken is more of a bump in the road than an actual town. Consists of two buildings, one of which is a store, and is the only habitation between Eagle, Tok and Dawson, YT. And yes, it does lie within the traditional borders of Interior Alaska. (WT-en) Celticevergreen 16:28, 4 July 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Interior Alaska


text:
Talk:Inter Island Airways

keep all information consistent with information on Inter Island Airways.

title: Talk:Inter Island Airways


text:
Talk:Interlaken

What is the river that runs through Interlaken?

title: Talk:Interlaken


text:
Talk:Spectator sports

Aim of this page
Does the international in the title restrict this page to only evens between nations or does it imply any sporting event that happens on the globe? (WT-en) NJR_ZA 05:03, 23 January 2007 (EST)

Sequence of entries on page
I changed the sequence of the entries so that multi-sport international events such as the Olympics, Commonwealth Games, etc are listed first, followed by specific sports. I think this provides a better approach to the page for the traveler. This is the last change which I made, so it is easily reverted if others disagree. --(WT-en) Bill in STL 01:09, 26 September 2010 (EDT)

how to resurrect this article
This article appears to be dead and has not been updated before since at least 2014. Most of the events in this article are outdated. What should we do? move/merge with sports? delete altogether? Do something else? Best wishes. See also: https://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Wikivoyage:Travellers%27_pub#Spectator_sports Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:19, 31 January 2015 (UTC)
 * delete; information related to sporting events should be on the relevant sport page and on the location page where it is taking place. Also if a large event in the month Calendar of events and festivals pages. We do not need a fourth place to list them. There are really not enough active people on the site to maintain a calender well. I suggested deleting all the Calendar of events and festivals month pages as they were so out of date. That was rejected (oddly for a wiki site change is not like by some on this site), but then after I made an effort to fix all the pages non of the supporter of keeping them worked on keeping them up to date. --Traveler100 (talk) 18:53, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

 * So should we have a vfd than? Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:11, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

 * For the record I am against deleting this, but there seems to be no place to start the discussion concerning WV's coverage of sports and spectator sports in particular. I tried to raise this issue in the pub, but there was only response concerning events such as the soccer world cup, and none regarding this article or why there is one on Rugby football and none on Cricket Hobbitschuster (talk) 18:17, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

Hatnote
Does this read oddly to anyone else? "This article is about watching sport. See sport for doing sport." Powers (talk) 21:00, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It does. Would something like "This article is about sport from a spectators perspective. For sport as an activity, see sport." be better? ϒpsilon (talk) 22:23, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It's hard for me to say due to the U.S./Commonwealth difference between "sport" and "sports". Powers (talk) 19:17, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

 * IMHO we should try to avoid saying "sport" too often in a row. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:38, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

NFL International series dates now set
See here. The team not yet named in the article is/will be the New York Football Giants. Hobbitschuster (talk) 00:08, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Name
Is there anything wrong with using "Watching sports" in any dialect, given that different sports are included? The phrase "watching sport" is very weird in American English, though of course standard in British English. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:15, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I think "Spectator sports" sounds better. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:25, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Mark me down in favor of "watching sports" Hobbitschuster (talk) 12:41, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with Traveler100. "Watching" sports can happen in the comfort of one's hotel room, while spectating requires attendance at the venue. Powers (talk) 19:31, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Very well stated. I agree with Powers and Traveler100. Any objections to "Spectator sports"? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:15, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I think its too verbose, but I am fine with it... Hobbitschuster (talk) 23:50, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * We have to indicate this is about viewing sports, rather than playing them. What's your preferred title? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:11, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer watching sports, because that would also include the communal watching of big events on big screens or in the case of highly localized sports "as they are meant to be seen". Still, live attendance should probably be the focus... And attending sports events is not satisfactory either. Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:43, 6 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Let's not let this topic drop. Any other thoughts, everyone? Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:56, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Any of the suggested titles can be understood by a non-native speaker. However, American English is the policy for non-geographic articles. /Yvwv (talk) 19:18, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
 * If no-one voices any objection to changing the title to "Spectator sports" within 24 hours or so, I'll change it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:31, 30 January 2016 (UTC)

Absence of some sports
Sone sports are not listed in this article sports such as cycling and horse racing are not mentioned. Those two sports contain famous events (Tour de France & Grand National) which draw many spectators and there are many others with thier own ones to. Are these not notable enough or just missing??? TMN81 (talk) 21:37, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

 * By all means, plunge forward and add anything you think should be in the article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:18, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

Gambling is not related to sports
this edit removed the mention of gambling. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't sports bets the single biggest part of the gambling market? Hobbitschuster (talk) 22:13, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Listings
Do we have a policy or settled view on whether these pages should carry listings of teams, stadiums etc? This stems from cricket, where I migrated the team listings for England (ie the county CCs) to base city. That seemed the best place, as those have the context of "get in" and "get around" eg to the stadium, with map markers and other practical info. I just left namecheck links on overview page, along the lines of "Nottinghamshire play at Trent Bridge in Nottingham". The pushback was that American football is regarded as a model to follow and does have such listings. But effectively that page is just about North America, the game's little played elsewhere. Other spectator sport pages mostly don't, and the cricket listings are only manageable because many countries' entries are undeveloped. Views? Grahamsands (talk) 17:48, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

Roulette
add roulette to sports. —The preceding comment was added by 2a00:f41:28ea:388c:0:5d:ff38:4a01 (talk • contribs)

 * You can plunge forward and do so, but since you're leaving it to the discretion of others: Why should we? Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:20, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

Teqball
Here's one website to learn more. --Apisite (talk) 09:30, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

 * Untested site per Norton. Could you summarize? Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:04, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

 * The International Teqball Federation's website has at least a list of teqball competitions. --Apisite (talk) 10:30, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

 * What is the sport? OK, I see a Wikipedia article. Does it have many fans? Feel free to write about it, as it seems like it could be interesting to watch. Ikan Kekek (talk) 10:33, 2 January 2022 (UTC)

Lists of sport articles
The lists in and Sports are similar and meant to serve the same purpose. I think the latter section should just be a summary of this article; however, the list contains descriptions not present here. Should the list be merged to here and removed from there? the list here has a " ", the intention of which is beyond me, but which might interfere with the merging. –LPfi (talk) 09:38, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Spectator sports


text:
Talk:Internet access

Purpose of article
Can I have a few days on this one before it appears on vfd? ;) Discussion here is welcome though.

I can see an objection to this article along the lines of "but this is so blatantly obvious that it doesn't need pointing out -- use Hotmail!". It's sort of true, but the discussion I'm moving in from the pub below suggests that it might be useful to do a write-up for people with non-webmail accounts that they need shell/IMAP/POP access to. It does verge towards a "general tech" article rather than travel specific, but let me see what I can make of it from a traveller's perspective. (WT-en) Hypatia 18:38, 16 Dec 2004 (EST)

 * Email is a bit narrow. Should be renamed to "internet access" og we should have another article about that. --(WT-en) elgaard 17:58, 2 Feb 2005 (EST)

 * Since this email now has firewall information and so on, I agree with you. I am going to rename it to Internet access (WT-en) Hypatia 20:02, 5 Apr 2005 (EDT)

 * Good idea (WT-en) Lionfish 01:07, 6 Apr 2005 (BST)

Internet café
If I go to an Internet café, will I be able to plug my laptop in and ssh to my home computer? -(WT-en) phma 00:35, 26 Sep 2004 (EDT)

 * This is a computer question isn't it? It all depends on how you have your machine at home set up. If you have a router set up to accept calls to your machine from outside then this should be fine. It also depends on what outbound traffic the internet cafe allows. What you should do is from your home PC ssh to a box somewhere far away and then from this box try and ssh back onto your box. Doing this you should be able to prove that your machine is accepting connections.

 * It's an Internet café question. I know I can ssh from outside, but I've done it only at someone's home or at work. I don't know if Internet cafés let port 22 through, or (should I leave my laptop at home) they have ssh clients there so that I can ssh from their computer and bring up my Kmail on their screen. -(WT-en) phma 09:35, 27 Sep 2004 (EDT)

 * My observation has been that very few internet cafés allow laptop use these days, probably because they don't want to take the chance of having a possibly virus infected unknown machine on their internal network, and also don't want to be bothered to set up a firewalled laptop network.

 * If you are carrying around a laptop anyhow there are a lot of options for wireless these days, including a lot of free ones.

 * Meanwhile if that doesn't work, you can usually download Putty from internet café machines, or if all else fails there's a java SSH implimentation called mindterm which you can install on your home machine, assuming you are running an httpd. -- (WT-en) Mark 09:42, 27 Sep 2004 (EDT)

 * I don't have wireless on my laptop. Why would I need to download Putty? Don't they have openssh installed? I can't count on Java being available, though in a café they may have Colombia ;) and can a Java ssh implementation access the X server? Maybe the best solution is to find a geek in the host country who either lets me plug my laptop into his network or lets me ssh into it. -(WT-en) phma 05:38, 28 Sep 2004 (EDT)

 * You should not count on being allowed to put your laptop on a wired net. Do not count on getting X to work. Even if you managed to install an X-server on a PC in the internet cafe, the connection to an internet cafe would probably be too slow.

 * Install a webmail-server on your home computer. I use the one in usermin.
 * Ssh home with mindterm or putty and use a textbased mail client. (like Mutt or Vm, Gnus).
 * If you want access to your server, the most reliable way is the command interface in usermin because it only requires a browser with SSL.
 * You could bring a Knoppix CD. From Knoppix you can start a local Kmail and get you mail with POP3 or IMAP. But i doubt an internet cafe would let you boot their computer. OTOH a CD does not take up much space.
 * You can get a cheap 11Mbit wireless PCMCIA card

 * -- (WT-en) elgaard 07:31, 2004 Sep 30 (EDT)

 * Great advice Elgaard! I usually do all of the above... but seriously get the Wireless card.  Depending on where you are going you are likely to save money, as there are lots of free wireless places these days. -- (WT-en) Mark 04:35, 1 Oct 2004 (EDT)

 * ...or get a mobile phone with ssh client. lightweight solution. Not necessarily more expensive than an internet cafe if all you need is ssh terminal mode and gives you soo much more freedom. (WT-en) Wojsyl 13:09, 1 Jan 2005 (EST)

 * I had to use Internet in while traveling around France laste year, and nearly in any place I've asked I was allowed to plugin my laptop (to wired Ethernet network). Sometimes they had special seats for plugging in laptop (table+chair+socket), sometimes they unplugged other computer to make me a place with wire. It happened that I had to adjust my settings for some proxy for web access and/or set my IP/router addresses by hand. Never had problems with outgoing SSH connection.

 * I think that level of acceptance of connecting laptops increases. Probably because of number of people interested. In fact, once when I wasn't allowed to connect my laptop, I just searched for another café.

 * Also consider to add to page: email by WAP, email by voice messaging, email (notification?) by SMS.
 * --(WT-en) JanSlupski 20:07, 2 Feb 2005 (EST)

 * Yes more people have laptops. But wireless networks are also a lot more common. I am writing this from the Vienna cafe in Lafayette. Two other cafes have wired internet. But I doubt new networks will bother with wired internet. --(WT-en) elgaard 20:15, 2 Feb 2005 (EST)

Webmail
What is the key to the selection of webmail services on this page ? Can anyone add his/her favourite webmail site here ? (WT-en) Wojsyl 16:07, 3 Feb 2005 (EST)
 * Yes, just like restaurants. We should try to selection a few that covers different tastes.
 * Yahoo: popular, Gmail: big storage, Ekit: travel oriented. --(WT-en) elgaard 17:53, 3 Feb 2005 (EST)

 * Gmail is not publicly accessible so far. It's misleading.

 * I have about 45 Invites I'll give to wikivoyagers --(WT-en) elgaard 09:13, 14 Mar 2005 (EST)

Firewalls
I'm surprised no one's mentioned this problem. The great-firewall of China is often a real problem when people try to use their uni webmail accounts. I've not had any experience of it yet, am heading out there in Sept, so have been going on reports and articles I've read. If anyone who's been there (or better yet lives there) can improve on what I've written, I'd be very grateful.
 * I do not think many here have first hand experience with this. I have only experienced it at public terminal in Florida. It blocked any page with obscene words, I had to use som webmail gw to read my mail and the spammers provided plenty of subjects with obsene words. In eg. China I guess I would try to SSH to my server at home. Maybe TOR would work Also I assumme no country would bother to block sites in danish :-) -- (WT-en) elgaard 23:49, 4 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * Lol, I don't know. There was a site that could test whether a site was blocked from within China (I guess there was a machine in China somewhere it talked to), but it apparently went down a while ago :/ It would have been quite interesting/useful. I didn't realise there was censorship in Western world 'net cafes. Is it common? I've never had that problem anywhere in the UK or Eastern Europe... If it is we should add it to the page.
 * The US have become puritan. I have not had problems with internet cafes or when connecting with my own laptop. But public terminals in libraries, malls etc, can have all kinds of stupid filters. Why you would need a filter on a terminal in full view in a busy mall is beyound me. -- (WT-en) elgaard 15:18, 5 Apr 2005 (EDT)
 * After reading that I was about to enter into a rant about politics, religious fundamentalism and foreign policy in the US, but I won't :P I am surprised about library computers being censored. I had a quick look on Wikipedia at the censorship section: []. The UK seems to be going the other way with less restrictions "The government's new requirements for Ofcom only require it to ensure adherence to "generally accepted standards" and prevention of harm, removing the former requirement to adhere to standards of "taste and decency"" (from the Wikipedia article). In the last 15 years I think the UK has moved further from the US in many respects. This is going a tad off topic now ;P --(WT-en) Lionfish 23:01, 5 Apr 2005 (BST)

Hmm, my proxy server demo failed (history shows my ip addys are the same): Was using a transparent proxy when I made those changes, rather than an anonymous proxy... (WT-en) Lionfish

Need more of a Global View
I'm surprised about all this discussion about wireless connections etc: most places on Earth don't have an internet connection of any discription. Actually: A good proportion of the world's population is without an electricity supply. In many places: Rural china, etc getting access to the 'net at all is far more of an issue than whether you can use your laptop there. I think the article should try to add more 'global' stuff. Is there an article on satellite phones/modems? (Although, tbh, the only people who need to be in instant contact like that are TV or Radio reporters). -- (WT-en) Lionfish 01:25, 6 Apr 2005 (BST)

 * I think it's fine to have an article with mention of non-global access, although perhaps the article needs to be reordered. After all, we have tips for flying when plenty of people don't travel by plane. Likewise, we can have tips for getting 'net access that only work in wealthy countries with good 'net infrastructure. But they should be clearly marked as such, eg "if you're travelling in [certain countries], you will find that wireless access is plentful." Then we can add other tips for getting access in remote spots or places without the infrastructure. Also, keep in mind that we can only write what we know about, or can research. If something isn't in the article, it's better to assume that the author just didn't have the info available, rather than that it was a conscious anti-global decision. Likewise, it's better to have an incomplete article that only focusses on well equipped countries than no article at all. That said, I'd like to see more global stuff if anyone has the relevant knowledge or good research links.

 * See also Telephone service for travel: some info might be better off in that article. (WT-en) Hypatia 21:51, 5 Apr 2005 (EDT)

 * While most people in the world do not have internet access, travellers in almost any part of the world can get access to the internet somewhere on the travel. In poorer parts of the world there is usually many internet cafes, not in every village, but travellers usually pass larger cities with airports, train stations etc, every so often. I haven't been to rural China, but in South America, Asia, etc, it is not diffucult to get internet access. I hope someone going to China will write about the situation there. Wireless access might still be rare many places but it is cheap and getting more common everywhere. And you do not need electricity for wireless networks: WireLess, Zanzibar -- (WT-en) elgaard 22:20, 5 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Updating this article
I'm traveling around the world right now and I had been thinking of writing an article on this topic (not knowing this one was already written). I've been finding wireless internet in every place I go. However, there are huge disparities in the price of wifi everywhere I go. Usually one can find it for free if one looks hard enough. Often time hotels have it for free (especially the mid-range hotels). In Europe the pricier hotels charge rates so high they can only be described as insulting their customers.

Anyway, I think the article might focus more on wifi (or at least earlier in the article). Wifi is growing in importance, ubiquity and in the number of devices that support it. More and more cell phone companies are offering free minutes when making calls over wifi networks (instead of burdening the cell phone company's network). Also I think the article misrepresents the issue of open residential and other private networks. Usually an open wifi network is not by accident, but an intentional move by someone to share their network. Most wifi access points sold today come locked down. In other words the buyer of the access point has to take steps to deliberately open up the network. The only accidentally open networks would be very old access points or situations where the owner inadvertently opened the network or couldn't get it to work with their device without opening it (pretty rare situations in my experience). The article also makes unsubstantiated claims that it may be illegal to use these networks, but that is also false. In short it appears the article was written by someone trying to promote paid networks and trying to undermine the actions of citizens to share their networks with others. The article as currently worded needs to be tempered a bit and not make such wild claims.

The other thing I was considering adding was something about security. Often times people are afraid to openly share their wireless access point due to overblown security concerns. On the other hand, users of public networks need to be informed about security issues in using third-party networks. In that case there are some serious potential security issues, though unlikely exploited in most cases (though the obvious exception is the US communication industry invading their customers privacy and sharing customer data with reckless third-parties). 195.244.206.218 16:21, 25 April 2008 (EDT)

 * Plunge forward! (WT-en) Jpatokal 07:09, 26 April 2008 (EDT)

To Guide and FTT?
What is, in your opinion, still missing from this article (and needs to be added) before the article can be upgraded to Guide and nominated for FTT? ϒpsilon (talk) 12:13, 4 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Anyone? ϒpsilon (talk) 16:11, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Anyone? Perchance K7L or LPfi who've largely contributed to this article would have a comment? ϒpsilon (talk) 18:55, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I think regardless of anything, you could run it through the duplicate content detector and see the percentage score it gives out. We might consider doing that for all potential Feature candidates, it might help our SEO. Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:55, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm not the primary author of this piece and still see a lot of leftover WT text which needs to be replaced by new, updated and non-derivative content. There's a lot of info of varying quality scattered in multiple places - telephone service for travel, Internet access, mobile telephones, Internet telephony, electrical systems and various country-level or continent articles. For instance United States of America had a fair amount on buying devices to take home, then United States of America and North America had a whole lot more on buying the same devices for use locally at destination. It's too late for the rewritten nuclear option by which an old WT imported article is simply discarded and a new WV article written to take its place, as there have been three years of somewhat-useful contributions which are using the old text to create a derivative work, but I would be inclined to blow away the remaining WT prose and replace it with new text before even considering an FTT track for this topic. It's not just that WT leftovers are derivative or incur a duplicate-content penalty, they're also likely three years outdated. We need a new and current original article on this important topic. K7L (talk) 17:46, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the comment, good I didn't rush ahead updating the status and nominating it for FTT. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:15, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

WPA2 broken?
New Wi-Fi attack cracks WPA2 passwords with ease. WPA3 is new, perhaps not yet widely deployed so this looks serious.

One has to wonder if they'll ever get WiFi security right, even if you do not share my view that in WEP they quite deliberately got it wrong. Pashley (talk) 18:42, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Internet access


text:
Talk:Inter Rail

Stupidity
The author asserts that "The only mainland European country that does not participate in Inter Rail is Albania. Bosnia-Hercegovina joined the Interrail commmunity on 1st April 2005."

Apparently Lichenstein and San Marino don't count as countries anymore.

 * Everyone makes mistakes - if you see one, please correct it. The good thing about a Wiki is that thousands of eyes will see more than just one. -- (WT-en) Wrh2 15:54, 3 Aug 2005 (EDT)

 * San Marino (and the Vatican and Andorra and Monaco, for that matter) doesn't have any railway networks, so it's kind of a moot point. Liechtenstein, I believe, is covered by Inter Rail because its (few) services are handled by Swiss operator SBB, which is an Inter Rail member.  But I've added the obvious to satisfy nit-pickers. (WT-en) Jpatokal 21:18, 3 Aug 2005 (EDT)

Zones no more
There are no more zones in Inter Rail. Now you can only buy a ticket for 1 country or for the whole Europe. --89.216.37.81 07:28, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Inter Rail


text:
Talk:Interstate 10

What's the purpose of this article? Are roads travel destinations? Or is this a special road/travel topic like Route 66? --(WT-en) globe-trotter 14:01, 26 January 2010 (EST)
 * The purpose of this article is to show the travel destinations by using Interstate 10, just like Interstate 5. CatDog1234539 (talk) 15:56, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:38, 9 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Tolleson, Arizona.jpg

 * Not visible on the page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:33, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Ready to feature?
Is this article ready to feature at Dotm? /Yvwv (talk) 21:54, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

 * What is/would be the criteria(s) for featuring an article according to Wikivoyage standards? Anyone150 (talk) 20:15, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
 * It would be 'itinerary of the month'. Anyone150 (talk) 20:18, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Interstate 10