text:
Talk:Volcanoes

Hmm, what if we moved this to Visiting volcanoes or something like that? I saw the article listed in recent changes and thought it was going to be a wikipedia-type entry or something about Volcanoes National Forest. Or am I just being weird about this? (WT-en) Majnoona 19:03, 3 Nov 2004 (EST)

 * I wondered about it when I made it. The reason I didn't choose Visiting volanoes was that it doesn't work for the Architecture article (Visiting architecture?). We don't have to have some kind of generic phrase for all of them, but it would kind of nice. I just can't think of one. Anyway, no objections to you moving the page if you like Visiting volcanoes better. -- (WT-en) Hypatia 19:51, 3 Nov 2004 (EST)

Preparations
Hello,

I find the article really useful, and a good way to give the growing number of people interested in visitng a "live" volcano an orientation about what to think of in the preparation phase. To create a new section / new page about just that topic would look like a good idea. As volcanologist myself, and tour organizer, I added or modified a few parts of the text. Best greetings, Tom Pfeiffer, volcanologist (info@volcanodiscovery.com)

I've removed the following from the article because the text has a few errors in the safety department that makes me wonder if the person who wrote it really knew what they were talking about. (Example: even dormant volcanos like Mammoth Mountain can emit deadly vapors like CO which can kill you without warning. No warning that "local experts" may only have experience with their local volcano and may underestimate risk.  Type of eruption is misleading; it's the type of volcano that matters.)

I'll leave the text here in case anyone wants to use it as a basis for a new preparations or safety text. -- (WT-en) Colin 21:31, 3 Nov 2004 (EST)

Dear Colin,

First of all I strongly support to provide as much interesting and relevant info on visiting volcanoes as possible on your site. Unfortunately the "Visiting Volcanoes" section seems to be non-existent. Please do revive this and let us provide some useful stuff to potential volcano visitors.

I don't think it is fruitful to have a discussion here on what is "dormant" or "active". And yes, in exceptional situations a dormant volcano could pose a threat as well. How academic and/or precise do you want a contribution to be? And on what basis do you disqualify "local experts"? Have you ever worked together with volcanologists of i.e. the Hawaii Volcano Observatory (HVO), the OVSICORI in Costa Rica, the INGV in Italy or PHIVOLCS in the Philippines? Any bad experiences? And yes I agree if you want to state that an eruption of i.e. a shield type volcano is less violent than of i.e. an andesitic stratovolcano. You could consider that relevant in selecting the volcano you want to visit. But what really matters is that a visitor should know about the actual eruptive situation because that is what causes actual (in)direct threats. Feel free to contribute to this safety discussion. After all, the visitor of this section can learn from it.

Cheers, Markus Wamsteeker, info@gomagma.com

 * Preparations and Safety go hand-in-hand.

 * First of all there are roughly three states of a volcano: "extinct", "dormant" and "active" volcanoes, but the distinction is not always very clear, because sometimes dormant volcanoes can come back to life quite unexpectedly and most geologist define an active volcano as a volcano that has had eruptions within historic times (which might be thousands of years ago) and is likely to erupt in the future (even within thousands of years) again... More commonly, people talk of an active volcano of one that is having an eruption, or could have one within a rather short span of time... Before we go on to discuss safety issues connected to volcanic activity in some detail, let´s underline that ALL volcanoes require the same preparations as a "normal" hill or mountain. In fact, the mountainous character of a volcano is often underestimated: for example, most of the (few) accidents on the popular (active) volcanoes Stromboli and Etna in Italy have resulted from sudden changes of weather, such as lightning strikes and misorientation.

Active volcanoes should be approached with care and some extra preparations should be taken, which depend basically on the level of activity and the kind of activity, as well as on where you want to go to observe this activity. The kind of activity can differ from tremors ("seismic activity") you hardly sense to "fumaroles" (steam or gases coming out of wholes or cracks) to emission of lava flows (like on Hawaii or, sometimes, on Etna), small explosive events that throw glowing stones to a few tens or hundreds of meters, or even to realla devastating activity that would kill anyone near the volcano within a radius of several miles...Clearly, the level of risk differs strongly depending on the type of eruption (only spattering on a small scale or huge explosive activity with ash columns of several kms height and/or launching of a rain of stones and car size blocks), the level of activity and side effects like mudflows ("lahars"), toxic gas clouds or avalanches caused by the collapse of (a part) of a lava dome or crater rim (the latter phenomena are known as the most dangerous ones, a "pyroclastic cloud",- a cloud of ash and gas particles with a temperature of 400 to 700 degrees celsius, running down the hill up to 100km/h. You'll burn in an instant).

The topic is very complex and every volcano is different and has its own typical style of eruption with its associated risks. For example, visiting Kilauea, you are likely to encounter lots of steady, relatively harmless lava flows, but you could bring yourself into danger if you were to go too close to the areas where such lava flows are flowing into the sea, mainly because of the toxic steam clouds generated there, and the risk of collapse of the new unstable lava delta. Visiting Popocatepetl in Mexico, a typically explosive volcano, would be life-threatening, if you were to climb up to its rim (forbidden at the moment, by the way), because it might very well covery you with large stones... But you can watch these (moderate to small) explosive eruptions in good safety from below, i.e. many miles away. To cover this topic comprehensively would exceed many pages. I strongly recommend the new book by Dr. Rosaly Lopey "The Volcano Adventure Guide", (Hardcover, 362 pages, Cambridge University Press, 2005) - www.volcanoadventures.com. It contains vital information for anyone wishing to visit, explore, and photograph active volcanoes safely and enjoyably. Following an introduction that discusses eruption styles of different types of volcanoes, how to prepare for a volcano trip, and how to avoid volcanic dangers, the book presents guides to visiting 42 different volcanoes around the world.

 * Never go to an active volcano without reliable experts coming along! To stress out, you should be with someone who knows the particular mountain.

 * Having said this, the advise is to collect as much info on a volcano or volcanic region as possible via internet and reliable local sources like Volcanic Observatories who monitor the volcanoes on a daily basis. A good starting point are websites like "Stromboli Online" (http://www.stromboli.net) or the "USGS - U.S. Geological Survey, Volcanoes Hazards Program" (http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/).

 * Specialized in Volcano tours & adventures are GOMAGMA Volcano Adventures, http://www.gomagma.com, or VolcanoDiscovery - adventure & study travel -, http://www.volcanodiscovery.com.
 * They can also help you with info on active volcanoes and destinations.

 * Apart from getting aware of the risks involved and finding reliable guidance, you also need a few specific things on your luggage checklist. Hereby a have an active, eruptive volcano in mind with significant height (sub-alpine or alpine although some of 'm lie in a desert or are "a walk in the park"), so this is your "worst-case-volcano"-list (I would say "best case" ;-)
 * --strong/high mountain boots with strong rubber sole (best are Vibram soles,- they do not melt ;-) easily...)
 * --telescopic walking sticks if you cross instable lava fields
 * --working gloves (lava is very sharp!!!)
 * --dust mask in case of ash clouds/fall out - you should actually alway try to avoid tthat by being extremely careful as to where the wind is blowing!
 * --gas mask against an-organic gases
 * --helmet, but don't think a helmet will protect you too much in case of a larger block falling on you, so be careful even with a helmet.
 * --safety specs
 * --sunblock
 * --headlight (Petzl)
 * --and lots of film or flash cards and batteries ;-)
 * --binoculars
 * --a whistle in case you need help

 * More on this and preparation can be obtained via the people of GOMAGMA (info@gomagma.com) or the team of Stromboli Online (www.stromboli.net) and VolcanoDiscovery (www.volcanodiscovery.com). They also provide tours, hiking, safari, climbing to the volcanoes of Italy, Greece, Hawaii, Indonesia, Tanzania, Chile, Nicaragua and many more to come.

Devils Tower
I'm not sure if this belongs in the article or not, but those interested in volcanoes may also be interested in Devils Tower or other places like it. Do these have a place here, or do you think they'd become clutter? (WT-en) ChubbyWimbus 21:38, 10 May 2010 (EDT)

 * I am not sure that Devil's Tower or any other geological features which were formed by volcanic activity belong here. I would interpret this article as being about active volcanoes. There could be a place though for a travel topic dealing with extraordinary geological features - Devils Tower, Giant's Causeway, the Australian monoliths etc. --(WT-en) Burmesedays 21:59, 10 May 2010 (EDT)

 * Some of that sort of thing is covered at UNESCO Global Geoparks Network. Pashley (talk) 16:23, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

Posts here
I realise that the posts here are from 3 years ago or longer, but I find the assumption implicit in the text and subsidiary articles about specific volcanoes that anyone might want to climb volcanoes seems a bit foolhardy - and as if volcano guides/tour persons have had an easy leash here in the past in regards to spruiking their business -   any thoughts from anyone else as to whether some of the dated information being replaced with a more generic comment re climbing volcanoes ?? sats (talk) 10:45, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure I completely understand what you mean, but there are some dead and dormant volcanoes that are fine to climb, and there are also places like Volcanoes National Park in the Big Island of Hawaii, where you can safely hike through a recent (1959) lava field and watch Mt. Kilauea bubble from a safe distance. No tour guides are needed to do either of those things, by the way. What you need a tour guide for is to walk right up to the flowing lava. I haven't done that, and it's against regulations, but I know people who have done it, and it's interesting but dangerous - not for the reasons you'd think, but because the new lava is like sharp glass to walk over, and if you fall, you get cut up. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:06, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

 * wow that sounds amazing. I am wondering if this is a bit like dangerous sports - at what points do we put things in or allow spruiking for businesses that may well be working on truly dormant volcanoes, or simply articles not maintained very well that have redundant information. Maybe this should be at a more general talk page re dangerous issues and points of disclaimers and or whether certain activities ar enot canvassed at all ??  sats (talk) 11:33, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure if volcanoes are really 'dangerous sports'. I may be wrong, but having visited a few myself (in Colombia, Caribbean and Indonesia) I get the impression that these are generally predictable in terms of danger and tourists are rarely harmed. I can think of Mount St Helen's in Washington state that exploded without warning in the 80's but not any others. Andrewssi2 (talk) 11:47, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Modern warnings
There have been a number of eruptions through history with huge numbers of casualties, perhaps most famously Pompeii. Are we reasonably safe from such events today, assuming we heed any warnings or evacuation orders that are issued? I know predictions on earthquakes are far from perfect & imagine the same might apply for volcanic activity. On the other hand, I imagine some progress has been made & today's scientists can predict much better than ancient Romans could.

However I really have no idea whether they can predict well enough to keep travellers safe. If someone knows, that would be a good thing for the article to discuss. Pashley (talk) 00:51, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

 * It seems (based on reports on the Icelandic ones distorting air traffic some years ago) one is mostly able to tell what volcanoes may have an eruption in foreseeable or near future (pressure building up), and the probable mode of eruption, but whether the eruption will happen tomorrow or next year is often anybody's guess. Some volcanoes seem to be more regular than others, and I suppose tour organizers in some countries are more likely to trust probabilities than in others. Real expertise would be needed both in this article and in those of individual volcanoes. --LPfi (talk) 15:17, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Phelgraean Fields?
Clickbait headline: Phlegraean Fields: The Italian Supervolcano Ready To Blow. The actual article text says no major eruption in 30-odd thousand years & experts have little idea when in might blow. But it is large & is near a major city, & previous eruptions have caused serious & widespread damage. Phlegraean Fields

I'm inclined to think it should be mentioned here but doing it justice work require research that I do not want to do. Pashley (talk) 20:20, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Yellowstone article
The Yellowstone Supervolcano Is Putting on the Best Show in America Right Now Pashley (talk) 07:15, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Expressing a time period
We have a sentence along the lines "There have been only two VEI-7 eruptions ...". The time indicator has been: I think the original #1 was the right choice & still is. #2 seems clumsy & pointless to me. As I see it, that makes the text obscure for some silly political correctness reason. I tried #3 as a compromise, but User:Hobbitschuster reverted to #2. I object!
 * 1) since the time of Christ
 * 2) since the time the Roman Empire ceased being a Republic
 * 3) in the last 2,000 years

Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 01:59, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

 * For the record, I did not mention "political correctness". At any rate, "Christ" is explicitly a religious title and anybody who knows a bit about Christianity knows that. That is why those scientists who say something of cake can be said about the man behind the myth talk of "Jesus of Nazareth" when talking about "the real person" whatever that might mean...

 * I think "in the last 2000 years" is clumsy, because it necessarily gives a weirdly specific number (sigfigs and all) and people might misinterpret it as meaning 18 CE thus year and 19 CE the next... We can of course mention some appropriate event not from the Mediterranean culture... Since the Han dynasty or "since the prrclassical Mayan age", but I do not see why we should reference an itinerant preacher who died like a lowly criminal or an insurgent slave Hobbitschuster (talk) 02:16, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

 * "In the last 2,000 years" is quite clear. Is it slightly incorrect? When were the last 2 VE-7 eruptions? Ikan Kekek (talk) 02:28, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

 * w:Category:VEI-7 volcanoes gives Lake Taupo in 180 CE and Mount Tambora in 1815. There was one on Lombok in 1257 that I have read that vulcanologists are not sure about but List of largest volcanic eruptions has it as VEI-7. Pashley (talk) 07:44, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

 * Given that we use a dating system with BCE and CE, I'd say #1 is obviously correct, less obscure than #2 and more correct than #3 where the meaning changes every year. Pashley (talk) 07:51, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

 * I vote for #3. It won't be 2180 CE for another 62 years. That's long enough not to be an issue for a couple of generations at least. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:00, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

 * I rewrote it to just list the last three eruptions instead of trying to describe the interval. Pashley (talk) 08:27, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
 * That's fine. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:38, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Scope of article - Should we have dormant/extinct volcanoes?
There are a huge number of dormant and extinct volcanoes around the world. Many of them are now basically just mountains with a volcanic past.

Given there are a lot of volcanoes in this list, should we cut out the ones' that are unlikely to erupt again? Andrewssi2 (talk) 03:49, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

 * I don't agree that it's a long list. Also, the list could be subdivided into "Active" and "Extinct" (or "Inactive", which is what en.wp uses). "Dormant" is a dubious categorization, although en.wp uses it, nevertheless. My other remark would be that if we choose to make this a selective list, we should still keep a listing for an extinct volcano if it's interesting to see. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:17, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

 * By the way, it's nice to see you here and participating. I just thought I'd say so. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:33, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Andrewssi2 (talk) 05:19, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

 * People do not go to Mount Kilimanjaro or Mount Fuji expecting to see them erupt, but they are among the world's most famous volcanoes. Pashley (talk) 04:36, 5 May 2020 (UTC)

 * People also don't go to Mount Kilimanjaro or Mount Fuji to look at volcanoes at all. They are impressive mountains that were originally formed by volcanoes. It is going to be a very long list if all mountains created by volcanic activity are included. Andrewssi2 (talk) 05:19, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

 * Fuji has a clear shape of a volcano, so I'd definitely count it. Moreover, per Mount Fuji: "Mount Fuji is an active stratovolcano that last erupted from 1707–1708." Kilimanjaro isn't dead, either: "Kilimanjaro is a large stratovolcano composed of three distinct volcanic cones: Kibo, the highest; Mawenzi at 5,149 metres (16,893 ft); and Shira, the lowest at 4,005 metres (13,140 ft). Mawenzi and Shira are extinct, while Kibo is dormant and could erupt again." "Dormant" to me is simply another word for "alive". A long time between eruptions on a human time scale is not necessarily long in geological time: "The last activity here, dated to 150,000–200,000 years ago, created the current Kibo summit crater. Kibo still has gas-emitting fumaroles in its crater." Sure sounds alive to me. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:41, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

Book on Tambora eruption
The Year of No Summer Pashley (talk) 04:37, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

National Geographic
This May Be the Most Dangerous U.S. Volcano, Mount Rainier Pashley (talk) 13:58, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

"Destroyed Minoan civilization"
This article makes a claim which per This Wikipedia article is not universally shared among experts on the subject and I think we should change the wording. The question is: How? Hobbitschuster (talk) 17:36, 27 February 2021 (UTC)

 * Edited. Comment solicited. Pashley (talk) 01:09, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Geo co-ordinates
Volcanoes has many volcanoes listed without co-ordinates. I've been fixing some every once in a while, but I get bored so I never do more than about five in a burst & I usually go for weeks between bursts.

Other contributors, care to dive in here? Pashley (talk) 02:25, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

 * Did a few more, my first in months & I do not notice anyone else active on it. Pashley (talk) 05:40, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Most major volcanoes have articles at Wikipedia but few of those are linked here. Pashley (talk) 10:46, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Volcanic smog
I just added an entry on this. I live near enough to Taal Volcano that I get official bulletins about it & one had this text:
 * Vog is a type of air pollution that is caused by volcanoes. It consists of fine droplets containing volcanic gas such as SO2 which is acidic and can cause irritation of the eyes, throat and respiratory tract in severities depending on the gas concentrations and durations of exposure. People particularly sensitive to such ill effects are those with health conditions such as asthma, lung disease and heart disease, the elderly, pregnant women and children. If vog occurs and exposure cannot be avoided, please be mindful of the following:

 * (1) Limit your exposure. Avoid outdoor activities, stay indoors and shut doors and windows to block out vog.
 * (2) Protect yourself. Cover nose, ideally with an N95 facemask. Drink plenty of water to reduce any throat irritation or constriction.

Pashley (talk) 10:35, 29 June 2021 (UTC)

Gas mask?
I understand that poisonous gases are one of the hazards of volcanos, but are you really expected to bring a gas mask to any volcano you would visit, or is it a reasonable security measure where you aren't told to bring one? Already buying one requires some expertise, and I can imagine it raising more than a little suspicion among some border officials.

I suppose that on tours where gas masks are required, your guide will lend you one, and if they are good to have without the guides recommending and providing them, you'd need a great deal of expertise to know you want one, unless you bring one when visiting any active volcano.

So, should we have a section explaining when and how to bring gas masks?

–LPfi (talk) 10:50, 22 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Volcanoes mentions them. Is that enough? I'd say yes. Pashley (talk) 14:28, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

 * I wondered about the wording where they were mentioned. Now it says they "might be needed". I take that to mean they might be needed somewhere, but that you'd get to know in that case. It could still be written more clearly. –LPfi (talk) 19:04, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

South America
It looks to me like the main obstacle to promoting this to Guide is that Volcanoes has a lot of red links. Can someone who knows the region fix that? Pashley (talk) 23:54, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

 * I would add that South and Central America should not be a geographic entity in the list, but rather Central America should be a section within North America (where it, in fact, is geographically located). (Be nice to have a few more entries in South America as well). Mrkstvns (talk) 16:09, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

 * The red links are gone. Thanks to whoever did that.
 * I do not think the current headings, Volcanoes & Volcanoes make much sense. I'd have:
 * North America
 * Central America and Caribbean
 * South America
 * Other opinions? Pashley 17:09, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

 * ✅ Did that. Pashley (talk) 13:50, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Help needed
Volcanoes mentions a number of volcanoes that are currently red links. It would be good to eliminate the red, perhaps create some articles or link to existing ones, & add WP or wikidata links where possible.

I do not know the region & don't want to tackle this. Volunteers? Pashley (talk) 12:15, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

 * I listified them, linked them and added wikidata. All were mentioned as hikes or other tours in the now linked articles. I did not extract descriptions, but that should be quite easy, from the Wikipedia articles (all had such, at least in Spanish, I didn't check the English). –LPfi (talk) 13:32, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

 * Bravo! Pashley (talk) 15:06, 4 April 2023 (UTC)

Guide? DotM?
This is currently rated Usable; if it were Guide it might be a good FTT.

It looks ready to me. Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 02:01, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

 * Sure, go ahead and promote it. Mrkstvns (talk) 18:00, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

 * OK, no-one has objected & the problems mentioned at and  seem to be solved, so I'll promote & nominate it. Pashley (talk) 20:00, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Iceland
Iceland currently has a marker for the country, with geo co-ords, but the volcanoes are just listed in text; none have either marker or listing tags & none have co-ords.

Other countries have listings for their volcanoes. I think Iceland should too. Other opinions? Volunteers for the work? Pashley (talk) 16:28, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

 * The five linked volcanos can easily be provided with listings, but how many should we list? Wikipedia in English has articles on some 40–80 volcanoes (Icelandic: ca 50) and lists some 50. –LPfi (talk) 18:29, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

 * I made some into listings; perhaps other might do more?
 * I also added a link to List of volcanoes in Iceland. I think this is a valid exception to the general rule prohibiting inline WP links; there are similar links for at least Indonesia & the Philippines. Pashley (talk) 19:56, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. Not so sure it's useful, or that Iceland is necessarily unique. There are plenty of countries that have LOTS of volcanoes and I'd hate to see the article turn into a link farm for WP (especially since WV isn't supposed to be encyclopedic, but rather a "guide") In my opinion, the link could go. Mrkstvns (talk) 20:08, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

 * I'd say keep these links in the country sections. An alternative would be to just say in the intro to the Destinations section that WP has lists for many countries. Pashley (talk) 15:32, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

 * I added a comment in the intro to Destinations & took out links in Iceland, Philippines & Indonesia. Pashley (talk) 05:35, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Deletion
We had two images for this volcano. I deleted one & am preserving it here. Pashley (talk) 13:53, 30 December 2023 (UTC) Deleted another. Pashley (talk) 13:56, 30 December 2023 (UTC)

Also a tag that seemed unnecessary:
 * Pashley (talk) 11:56, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Pashley (talk) 11:56, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

 * The confused template may be necessary because Volcano is currently a redirect pointing here. Perhaps we can create Volcano (disambiguation), list the Californian and Hawaiian places there (along with this article), and link it from here. Vidimian (talk) 21:33, 3 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Or change the redirect into a disambiguation page. No one should search for those places as "Volcanoes", while we generally use the plural for this kind of travel topics (Mountain ranges, Glaciers, …). –LPfi (talk) 11:43, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, that sounds like a better option. Vidimian (talk) 15:14, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅. Volcano is a disambiguation page now. Vidimian (talk) 18:57, 4 January 2024 (UTC)
 * And most of the links to it have been changed to point to volcanoes. Pashley (talk) 14:46, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

Running out of marker numbers
The article currently has 98 markers & I believe the software supports a maximum of 99. There will be a problem if two more markers are added, & that seems possible. Are there any that should be removed? I'd say no.

One solution might be to use different colours of marker for different types of volcano. See Grand old hotels for an example. Three colours for active/dormant/extinct? One colour for Volcanoes and another for other volcanoes? Pashley (talk) 17:45, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

 * 99 now. Should we do something? What? Pashley (talk) 17:17, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I think the distinction between extinct and active (including the dormant ones) is clear, interesting and seems to suffice for the time being. The decade volcanoes and the supervolcanoes could also have their separate colours. –LPfi (talk) 17:28, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

 * ✅ Did that. Pashley (talk) 11:59, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

 * Now at 93 red markers for active volcanoes, including dormant. I'd say turn most of them another colour (grey?) & reserve red for the Volcanoes. Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 09:29, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I would prefer red for active, chocolate for dormant volcanoes, and grey for extinct volcanoes. I don't mind your OSM approach, though. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:56, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

 * 96 active now. Pashley (talk) 08:00, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
 * If some dormant ones can be separated (SHB2000 suggests all such above), we get the number down considerably. I don't think changing from dormant to red from year to year makes sense, so we should probably change the marker only for those that have been dormant for a long time and aren't supposed to wake up any time soon. A threshold of a century or so might make sense. –LPfi (talk) 08:30, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

 * I changed some & we're now down to 85 red markers. This involved a lot of judgement calls & I may have got some wrong; it would be good for someone to check. Pashley (talk) 03:23, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Sort by geology or politics?
Currently Hawaii is in the Oceania section (which is geologically correct) but the Canary Islands are in the Europe section (which is politically correct, but geologically wrong). Since this is a geological topic, I would have expected them in the Africa section ... El Grafo (talk) 10:12, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

 * Should we make an Atlantic section with Iceland & the Canary Islands? Pashley (talk) 12:40, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Good idea. The Caribbean would fit in there nicely as well. El Grafo (talk) 08:49, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Not sure about that, Chief. I think most general purpose travelers would expect to find the Caribbean associated with the Americas, not in an arbitrarily invented grouping that ignores geography (political or otherwise). Just my 2 cents... Mrkstvns (talk) 16:02, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

 * I agree, Caribbean belongs with the Americas.
 * Mid-Atlantic Ridge mentions Iceland & the Azores, but not the Canary Islands. Looking at a map, the Canaries are just off the African coast. Pashley (talk) 19:13, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

 * I've created an "Islands near Africa" section with the Canaries & Reunion. Also an Atlantic section with Iceland & the Azores. Pashley (talk) 16:25, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks - either way is fine for me, just Europe didn't make much sense to me. El Grafo (talk) 08:29, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * While this division may make sense geographically, it differs from our geographical hierarchy, and a reader cannot know what logic is used, especially as subsections aren't directly shown in our menu. You have to hover over the individual subsection names to see what's below them. I'd definitely search for Iceland under Europe. Now "Atlantic" is an item parallel with the continents, and if I notice that, I'd search for the Azores and the Canaries there. Another problem is that while other continents are divided by country, Africa isn't. If you first checked Asia and saw the countries there, Africa having only the islands as subsection, one could guess that we list no volcanoes on the African mainland. –LPfi (talk) 08:53, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I made some edits to deal with those points. Pashley (talk) 05:17, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Risky volcano tourism...
BBC has an interesting article about tourists flocking to dangerous active volcanoes near Antigua Guatemala: [Https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cydd910j26go https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cydd910j26go] Mrkstvns (talk) 13:08, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

 * "We signed a piece of paper and laughed about the fact that we were signing our life away. […] Because it’s made for tourists and it’s just a thing that happens, I thought it was perfectly safe."
 * I suppose we can do our share to raise our readers' awareness above that level. Some will go anyway, like people will die on Mount Everest, but the latter are hardly unaware of the risks.
 * –LPfi (talk) 15:24, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

 * I'd say this rates a warning box, probably in the Antigua Guatemala article. The BBC also suggests an alternative:
 * The terraces of Acatenango, Fuego’s dormant twin, offer a spectacular view of Fuego’s lava shows. All tours hike Acatenango first, resting in a base camp there. Those who are feeling adventurous then continue on to Fuego.
 * ... “Given how good the observation platform from the terraces [of Acatenango] is, it seems a completely unnecessary risk.”
 * We should also suggest that. Pashley (talk) 21:51, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I added a paragraph to that article's Stay safe. We should probably say something in the listing itself, but I didn't see how to put the sentence there: there is a sentence on walking up "Fuego Acatenango", is that referring to Vólcano de Fuego? I am not sure this warrants a warning box: all visits to active volcanoes carry a risk, so I don't think it is that unexpected (and the article is mostly on the city, the volcano is just one see listing). –LPfi (talk) 08:04, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I made some changes both at Volcanoes and at Antigua_Guatemala. Pashley (talk) 23:56, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Volcanoes


text:
Talk:Volos

Usable city
I suggest that Volos should get the status of a usablecity article. (WT-en) Handrian 09:19, 9 December 2010 (EST)

Images
I removed two of the three images. If there are going to be three images, I don't think they should all three be pictures of the waterfront. (WT-en) Sailsetter 13:03, 12 October 2008 (EDT)

Info that is not relevant to the travel article
The following was in the see section - I'm not sure what to do with it, but the following are not really touristy attractions, or if they are, they need to be shrunk down to the best things.

 * El. Venizelou str., commonly known as "Iolkou" street among the locals, as well as "K.Kartali str." are vertical to the promenade and Ermou street heading north. A ten minute walk from the port through the center will bring you to Plateia Eleftherias, ie "Freedom Square", sporting some cafes. There are plans of renovating the massive Matsaggos building and arcade on Iolkou street, formerly a tobacco industry, to use it as a new landmark for the industrial past of the city, on "Plateia Panepistimiou" or "University Square" which is under construction.

 * In case you wander a little bit to the inner districts of the city, you will see Nea Ionia on the Northwest of the center, once a refugee camp after the disposal of the Greeks in Asia Minor after 1922, but nowadays a bustling developing city part, still offering an enormous park called Helikodromio with an open theatre inside. it can be reached with blue buses 1 and 2.

Architecture
Volos hasn't been lucky to preserve the large number of neoclassical buildings that could be spotted almost everywhere, as a sign of its industrial boom in the early twentieth century. Unfortunately, a devastating series of earthquakes in 1955 destroyed many parts of the old town. The architectural and urban-planning character of Volos is achieved by the layouts of streets and squares. The current urban plan of Volos was fundamentally formed in 1882, shortly after the liberation of the city and was much influenced by concepts of neoclassical town planning. Modern city isn't really interesting architecturally, apart from "Achilleion" cinema on the promenade, Volos railway station (officially described as one of the most beautiful in Greece from Hellenic Railways, once a departure point for the nowadays touristic "Pelion train") and the churches of Aghios Nikolaos (cathedral) and Aghios Konstantinos (basilica, on the promenade). Former brick factory "Tsalapatas" renovated in a museum and leisure area with taverns, bars etc. The University of Thessaly, has preserved a series of old industrial warehouses and other buildings in various places in the city, to use them as academic faculties today, "Papastratos building" on the promenade, originally a greek tobacco company warehouse is the administration building of the university and could be thought as the trademark of Volos. Some typical examples of Neoclassical buildings are: The 3-storeyed Hotel de France, with its impressive decorative murals (1894, Iasonos and K. Kartali streets), The National Bank, formerly the Epirothessalian Bank(1895), The Athens Bank (1903, today the library of University of Thessaly), The Achilllopouleion Hospital (1901), The Archaeological Museum of Volos, Athanasakeio (1909), The Agricultural Bank (1909, formerly the Kosmadopoulos Bank), The Cinetheater Achillion, (1925), The Aegli Hotel, (1927), designed by Kassiopoulos, The Building of the Air-force High officials Club near Agios Konstantinos Park, believed that it was designed by Le Corbusier, The Bank of Greece (1935), The Averofeian courts of Justice, The well preserved Regas house and its singular decorative murals, today the Lyceum of Greek women.

-- (WT-en) Tim 11:24, 12 July 2012 (EDT)

 * Why are these buildings not relevant to visitors? If they're interesting, they should all get a "See" listing, or if they're all in a discrete are that's easy to describe, the area should get a "See" listing, with architectural highlights mentioned. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:12, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

"Learn" section
This section should be included only if the schools listed below offer ~2-week or shorter courses for non-matriculated visitors. If they do, please restore those entries and the "Learn" heading. If not, if any of these schools host interesting performances or public lecture series, those could be listed in "Do", and if any of the buildings are interesting architecturally, those could be listed in "See".

Learn
Volos is home to University of Thessaly Πανεπιστήμιο Θεσσαλίας. Some Erasmus students come every year to Volos from other European countries. University buildings are located in various parts of the City. The main University buildings are::

Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:10, 20 September 2015 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Volos


text:
Talk:Volunteer travel

Vision
I had this idea whilst talking to Cacahuate about my trip this summer to Kenya to do some work in the slums in Nairobi. The general idea is to show travellers ways that they can make a difference when travelling, and to be a directory of charities that take volunteers to work in different parts of the world. I am not aware of a similar page on Wikivoyage. -- (WT-en) Tim 09:57, 19 January 2007 (EST)

Volunteer
I moved in the information from Volunteer, because I do not think we should not distribute information among several articles. Feel free to plunge forward here or write a note why you think we should create a seperate article. Thanks! --(WT-en) Flip666 writeme! • 09:43, 22 August 2007 (EDT)

I think Volunteer is the better title. Making a difference might include ecological camping or political activity or Teaching English or whatever. This article is not about those, only volunteering. (WT-en) Pashley 20:00, 23 August 2007 (EDT)

 * This article was sorta meant to encompass those things and be sort of broad about ways one can do more than just travel and take... for those who would rather give... I guess many of the things would fall under volunteering, but when Tim and I first discussed creating it I think we were shooting for it to broadly encompass many ways of making a difference. But alas, my idealistic mind is still empty, so I still won't be hashing out this article further at the moment :) – (WT-en) cacahuate   talk 23:20, 23 August 2007 (EDT)

Volunteer travel — is it an activity or is it a tours/travel agency listing
Swept in from the pub:

Recently while reviewing edits to Nepal and New Zealand I have paused to consider the listing of volunteering activities which appear to be travel service promotions with a feel good skin. Some of these listings are looking a bit borderline in terms of our activity listing policies in regard to listing by tour guides and travel agencies. Frankly in my opinion much of the international volunteering tourism activity is just feel good commercial travel and tour business activity marketed using emotionally driven messages and packaging. Certainly some of the volunteering activities are entirely legitimate, however a few of them seem to be using volunteering as a means to market and promote tours and maybe they should not be listing here on WT when other quite legitimate tour, tour guide and travel agency enterprises are not permitted to do so.
 * http://www.volunteersnepal.com/, http://www.globalvolunteernetwork.org and http://www.isvonline.com/ have stood out to me but I have not gone looking for them. I assume there are a few more scattered around in WT articles.

International Student Volunteers Inc http://www.isvonline.com/: "ISV allows you to combine meaningful volunteer projects with action-packed adventure travel into the ultimate life-changing experience. Impact your World by contributing to the 250,000+ volunteer hours provided each year by thousands of ISV participants to hundreds of projects around the world that focus on conservation and community development." International Student Volunteers Inc, is the highest rated Volunteer & Adventure Travel Program in the world and has been selected as one of the Top 10 Volunteer Programs by the U.S. Center for Citizen Diplomacy. International Student Volunteers Inc, (ISV) has 12 offices around the world with international headquarters in the USA. For the past 28 years ISV has conducted international travel programs for tens of thousands of students on six continents.

Volunteers Nepal http://www.volunteersnepal.com/: "The Chhahari Group Nepal (CGN) is a non-profitable and non-government organization based in Nepal and conducting volunteering and internship opportunities in south Asia on nominal and affordable cost. Our aim is to encourage the international students to visit cultural heritage of Nepal and gain the life time experience on affordable cost". See http://www.volunteersnepal.com/program_fees.php for a cost breakdown. Their website describes:

 * Homestay Tours; Sirubari Village, Bandipur Village, Balthali Village, Chepang Village, Briddim Village, Kopan Village, Godavari Village
 * Travel Services; Sightseeing Tours, Adventure Trekking, Jungle Safari, White Water Rafting, Mountain Flight, Hotel Reservation, Tibet Tours, Bhutan Tours.

| This edit to the Nepal article and several following brought my attention to Volunteers Nepal.

Global Volunteer Network's YOUNG AT HEART TOUR (50+) This tour has been designed for mature volunteers who are young at heart and ready for their next adventure! Starting May 9 2011 described at http://www.globalvolunteernetwork.org/young-at-heart-tour/ looks to me to be in conflict with tour listing. Sure they seem to be doing something worthwhile whilst travelling but it is still tourism and it is a group of people on a tour. It appears to have an "application fee" of US$350 + a "Program Fee" of US$1247 10 days. I understanding from reading their promotional material that US$200 of this goes toward a 'project'.

I am curious what other editors think about this. -- (WT-en) felix 09:13, 9 May 2011 (EDT)

 * I'd be in favor of a policy that stated that the Volunteer article was the only appropriate place for listing individual volunteer organizations, and that country/region/city articles should then link to that article (ex. Volunteer ) for locations where volunteering is a common activity. I agree strongly that many of these "volunteer" listings have become questionable over time, and I've seen a number of cases where an organization plastered numerous links across many articles in a way that seemed very spammy. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 14:23, 10 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Agreed. Also, the volunteer article should be edited to point out how to detect the scams. (WT-en) Pashley 03:05, 10 June 2011 (EDT)

Problems with the article?
I am concerned that the article appears to be falling down a slippery slope. Providing a "yellow pages" listing is something we avoid as a matter of policy, but this article is becoming one.

It lists many "volunteer" organisations, some of which I fear are basically tour companies with a gimmick and others outright scams. I have met gap year travellers in China who had paid money for a placement. They were doing the same work, with about the same qualifications, as other foreigners in the same city for about a third the money. Moreover, the placement firm had sleazed out on getting them the promised visa, so they were working illegally.

My guess is that we should include a warning about scams in the article, and institute some policy that greatly reduces the number of links — perhaps not listing any company that charges an up-front fee for placement services, or listing only established NGOs like WWOF. Other opinions? (WT-en) Pashley 11:24, 15 June 2011 (EDT)

 * It sounds like you know what you're talking about, so you have my support. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:23, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

 * Be bold, Sandy, and chop out some of the miscreants, as I have just done. Perhaps charitable status in a country like the UK or Germany or government recommendation would offer a useful (but not exclusive) test as to which ones are not just package holiday organisations with a feel good veneer? -- A l i c e ✉ 23:58, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

 * I haven't done this, but I have researched it for others. I find most of government and major NGO endorsed volunteer programs require a serious commitment of time and/or skill.  However, many travellers don't have that sort of time, and want to do the 2 weeks english teaching, or some such.  The smaller organisations seem to cater to that, and yes, they charge more than a similar tour may cost.  --Inas (talk) 05:54, 4 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry I wasn't crystal. Yes I support limiting the number of listings by using criteria that exclude (but do not replace a common sense test) organisations that charge an up-front fee for placement services and that do not have charitable status in a country like the UK or Germany or are not government recommended. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other criteria, Sandy, but perhaps you can? -- A l i c e ✉ 06:42, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

 * I am not certain what the criteria for listing should be and am not willing to volunteer to do a major cleanup myself. I suspect that will be a difficult task, both for the initial cleanup & ongoing maintenance.
 * There is likely to be some loud protest from de-listed companies, perhaps including some that is justified. I imagine that the best way to head that off if to agree on a clear policy before we attempt a cleanup. But what policy?
 * At Teaching_English, I wrote
 * "Some recruiters want an up front payment from teachers, a "membership fee", "placement fee" or whatever. Beyond question, these should be rejected out-of-hand. Honest recruiters make their money by getting commissions from schools; any who ask for payment from teachers are almost certainly scammers."
 * I am quite certain that is correct there (or at a minimum, correct for many countries), but I do not know if something similar would be correct here. Pashley (talk) 15:48, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

 * I see a big disparity between this article and Volunteer travel, the same topic on Wikipedia, in terms of awareness of common scams. If you're giving away free labour, and paying for the privilege, your generosity will be abused unless you carefully research not only the organisation but the project itself to see if it addresses legitimate local needs. I've started a section "Be wary" as we had little beyond the mention of bogus orphanages in the first "Give" section, but it may be worth checking that all of the issues identified at WP are at least mentioned in passing here. K7L (talk) 16:12, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Sorting out problems
I've started to re-organise the article, aiming at fixing some of the problems mentioned in the section above. However, it is a large job and there are quite a few areas of it that I know little about. Other contributions would be very welcome. Pashley (talk) 18:19, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

I have done as much as I have time for. I think the overall structure is now at least approximately correct and most sections are pretty much OK. Of course anyone who can improve those should, but to my eye the urgent stuff is in two specific sections: Anyone care to jump in? Pashley (talk) 17:47, 9 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Volunteer_travel looks incomplete to me; expanding it might be good.
 * Volunteer_travel is a large section that I have hardly touched; it really needs some work, both organising and trimming.

 * I think a separate section for well-known NGOs like Oxfam and Medicins sans frontieres might be a good idea. However I have not done it, partly for lack of time and partly because I am not certain what ought to be included. Pashley (talk) 18:27, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

 * The gap year stuff might be moved to Gap year travel or given its own section here. I am not sure which is the right approach, only that we want it in one of those places with a link from the other; duplicating it would create an unnecessary mess. Pashley (talk) 19:06, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

 * Of course volunteers are also needed for open source projects that might be of use worldwide. FreedomBox is the first I think of but there are many others. Also open data projects including all of the WMF sites plus others like the appropriate technology wiki Appropedia. I think we should mention these somewhere since some readers will be more inclined to do that sort of volunteer work than other types. I'm not sure where this might fit, though.

 * One thing I think we must mention is the Humanitarian OSM Team, applying Open Streetmap data to problems like the Haitian earthquake a few years back of the Ebola outbreak now. Pashley (talk) 00:43, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

 * Volunteer_travel still looks seriously problematic to me — violates our policy of not trying to provide a "yellow pages" web index, needs format fixes, and may include dubious companies — but I still have neither the knowledge nor time to attempt fixing it. Anyone care to jump in? Pashley (talk) 15:09, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Bump. Over the last few months I've seen various users, mostly either anonymous or new, adding listings and various admins promptly deleting them. That's fine as far as it goes, but ...

 * Can those deletions actually be justified in terms of policy? If not, do we have a volunteer to write an appropriate policy? See discussion above for some possible starting points.

 * Assuming a clear policy, what about the many links already in the article? My guess is that most of them should go, replaced by a short list of known-good ones and a mention that a web search for "volunteer" plus almost any country name will turn up many more possibilities, but those should be examined with caution. Pashley (talk) 15:01, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

 * I've been relying primarily on Don't tout, a policy intended to discourage hôteliers from posting laudatory reviews of their own hotels, as many of these seem to be organisations of unproven worth promoting themselves through posts from w:WP:SPA single-purpose accounts with either no other edit history or a history of other self-promotional activity. In the most recent instance, an IP with a long history of first-person hotel self-promotion added an unknown or unproven "other volunteer" organisation, I removed it, an account with no other contributions re-added the same listing, I removed it again. This page has been a target of widespread abuse; every vendor and every organisation seems to want to come here to sign up for free labour from the idealistic and gullible. Unless an active, trusted user here has (a) actually heard of these entities and (b) can verify their legitimacy, I'm wary about this page being open for anyone to add anything. Perhaps we do need to establish a consensus either to stop accepting new listings for "other" volunteer organisations or put some sort of procedure in place for this one page to prevent more being added if we cannot verify their bona fides. There's also the question of how to verify the legitimacy of what's already here. I see a huge potential for abuse, far beyond the usual nonsense where the local Cockroach Motel gives itself "five stars" for no clear reason. These additions could be anything from legit organisations to Fagin from Oliver Twist; if the only person standing behind them is "anonymous" or a single-purpose account, confidence is low. One bad listing in an article like this can do far more harm than a hotel listing itself when its rooms are dirty and its food garbage. K7L (talk) 15:39, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

 * I just removed the lot, see below for details. Probably some should go back in; I'll let others judge that. For now, I think we are better off with none of those listings than with a long list that mixes good & bad ones. Pashley (talk) 19:12, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Volunteering and working holidays
Our article on Volunteer travel could use contributions. See Talk:Volunteer_travel for current state and earlier parts of the talk page for background.

We might also cover Working holiday visa. Our visa article and several country articles mention them, but very briefly anywhere I checked. I'd say we should have either a separate article or a section of Working abroad (which currently does not even mention them) with links from other places. Pashley (talk) 19:23, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

 * I saw your work on that article and it is much appreciated. Although in concept the idea of volunteering seems simple enough, the reality is that it is very hard to find the right opportunity where you can add true value and more importantly not cause more problems than if you didn't go.
 * I hope some contributors with practical experience can help add to this. Andrewssi2 (talk) 00:28, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Massive deletion
I am removing a great deal of text, indeed most of the listings here; see above for the rationale.

All of it is preserved on talk pages because at least some of it should probably be restored later. I moved some to Talk:Gap_year_travel and the rest is here. Pashley (talk) 17:14, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

As an alternative, or to complement the working holiday, many people have chosen to embark on a volunteering experience. These meaningful experiences allow individuals the chance to give back to the international community, whether this be teaching in underprivileged schools, working with animals in Africa, or helping with community development project. Typically there will be a fee to participate in these programs, and participants are not paid. Most famously, Prince Harry embarked on a volunteering Gap Year in 2004 when he went to South Africa.

There are also various organizations that recruit volunteers. These may not cover the major expenses such as airfares and travel insurance. Some charge a fee for placement. A few of these are:
 * If you would like to work in an international work camp for two weeks as an alternative holiday, contact your national branch of SCI.
 * Arm-In-Arm Volunteers provides responsible,safe and low cost volunteering experiences geared towards social justice, international development and cross-cultural understanding in developing countries.
 * Action Volunteer Alliance (AVA)offers affordable volunteer opportunities abroad.
 * AFECT offers volunteering opportunities to assist Burmese refugees in north Thailand
 * Akha Asia has volunteer placements with Tribes and Indiginous Peoples
 * Center for Children in Need (Thailand) offers short and long-term volunteering in a grassroot orphanage for abandoned Burmese children. (http://www.volunteeringthailand.blogspot.com)
 * EDGE of AFRICA offers short and long-term volunteering in Africa, specializing in community empowerment, environmental restoration and wildlife research projects, as well as internships in local organisations.
 * Ikando Volunteer & Intern in Africa
 * Tanzania Volunteer Agency provides personalized placements in a wide range of fields in Tanzania.
 * Global Vision International (GVI) has worldwide volunteering opportunities
 * Volunteers and Interns for Balinese Education
 * Year Out Group, a British organization promoting gap year volunteering
 * Overseas Working Holidays, an Australian organization that offers guaranteed placements in regions such as Africa and India.
 * Thai-Experience specialized in placements in Thailand.
 * Travel to Teach with jobs in Southeast Asia and Latin America.
 * Volunteer Abroad offers volunteer programs in Latin America, Asia, and Africa
 * Mundo Exchange non-profit organization for volunteering in Guatemala and Thailand.
 * Earthwatch lets volunteers work on scientific field research projects all over the world for 1 - 3 weeks.
 * Projects Abroad offers a diverse range of volunteer placements in 26 different developing countries - for students, gap years, grads and qualified professionals from 2 weeks and up.
 * The International Humanity Foundation [] works in Indonesia, Thailand and Kenya and is always looking for volunteers.
 * Intiwawa offers free volunteering in Peru. Opportunities mainly include social and educational projects as well as nutrition and water.
 * Mozvoluteers offers affordable volunteer projects and medical elective placements in South Africa and Mozambique.
 * Mijn Bestemming Peru Dutch organization focusing in volunteering free, internships, work and support to communities all over Peru.
 * Volunteering Solutions India based Volunteering Organization which incorporated in 2006 and provide volunteering opportunities in 20 countries.
 * The Bergwaldprojekt (Mountain Forest Project) to work in forests in German and Swiss mountains or in  Austria, Catalunya or the Ukraine.

Interesting article
Lions, Zebras, and African Children: Voluntourism in the Age of Social Media Pashley (talk) 14:39, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

And The seven sins of humanitarian douchery Pashley (talk) 21:13, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

 * Another, The race to rescue Cambodian children from orphanages exploiting them for profit. Oliver, Oliver, never before has a boy wanted more... K7L (talk) 05:44, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Guide?
I have just promoted this from Outline to Usable. If it were guide, it might be a fine nominee for Featured Travel Topic, but what does it need to get there?

I edited it quite a bit in 2015, but now I feel I've done what I can & it needs other contributors. Is anyone up for that? Pashley (talk) 01:07, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

 * I don't think I can support a nomination of volunteer travel as featured travel topic. Sorry to be harsh, but I'm seeing too many of this sort of user here, where the user's sole contribution to Wikivoyage is to repeatedly add hyperlinks to one organization to this article and/or to the /*Work*/ and /*Volunteer*/ sections of individual destination pages. This page in particular is an abuse magnet for promotion of specific individual organisations (which are still coming in despite the "massive deletion" above) and I'd be very wary of linking to this from the main page. Too bad, really. K7L (talk) 19:34, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

 * I don't think I could support a nomination either yet, but I do think it would be a fine candidate if we could do it right. Thanks to a number of editors it is a whole lot closer than it was a year ago, but what else is needed?

 * I agree with K7L; this page is something of an abuse magnet. Should we apply some level of protection? Admin only? Autoconfirm only? No anon edits? Pashley (talk) 01:14, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

 * Bump. Over a year since the last comment here. Does anyone want to chime in? Pashley (talk) 17:01, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Odd offer
From another travel guide site: You can volunteer in 10 countries across four continents for just $19 Pashley (talk) 09:42, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Volunteer travel


text:
Talk:Volusia County

Guide Article
Thanks for the promotion to Guide Article. I will be busy hunting for interesting photos to add now. My digital camera and I will be busy. (WT-en) Gamweb 13:46, 17 August 2007 (EDT)

 * This is a great article, and really fantastically developed region. There are, however, a few very correctable issues that prevent it from fulfilling the strict criteria established Project:Region guide status:

 * The "Do" section needs a slight refurbishing, ideally in the form of prose.
 * front linked external links should be formatted per policy.
 * Some of the linked cities/towns are not at usable status, although they are close.

 * But this is a great article, and the unresolved issues are slight—I think with a little elbow grease this should become Wikivoyage's first true guide-status region. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 18:56, 9 March 2008 (EDT)

Links
Dropping some links right here to hold as reference points:

 * Parks:
 * http://www.floridastateparks.org/FindaParkAlpha.cfm
 * http://volusia.org/parks/
 * http://www.ci.daytona-beach.fl.us/standard.aspx?p_PageAlias=LSCityParks

(WT-en) Gamweb 16:22, 20 July 2007 (EDT)

Brochure
Has someone got permission to re-publish the Volusia County Brochure data under our copyleft? --(WT-en) Evan 11:37, 22 July 2007 (EDT)
 * The County government generally is open to anyone using their publications (they are eager to promote tourism and offer a "media kit" to anyone who asks), however, I can specifically ask them for permission if you think it is necessary. (WT-en) Gamweb 13:06, 22 July 2007 (EDT)
 * Alright, I made an inquiry and directed them to this article page to see what they say. (WT-en) Gamweb 16:27, 22 July 2007 (EDT)
 * There has been no response whatsoever. It appears that "silence is consent!" (WT-en) Gamweb 13:46, 17 August 2007 (EDT)
 * I finally heard back from the County's webmaster, who said it was "no problem." (WT-en) gamweb 17:17, 28 July 2008 (EDT)

Learn section
This information didn't seem traveller-relevant to me, so I removed it from the article, but I'm leaving it here in case it can be turned into something useful. —Granger (talk · contribs) 22:26, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Public primary and secondary education is handled by Volusia County Schools. Some of the larger private schools include Father Lopez Catholic High School.

Colleges and Universities

 * Bethune-Cookman University (Daytona Beach)
 * Daytona State College (Campuses in multiple locations around the County)
 * Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University (Daytona Beach)
 * Keiser College (Daytona Beach)
 * Stetson University (DeLand)
 * University of Central Florida, Daytona Beach Campus

Vocational

 * Advanced Technology Center (Daytona Beach)
 * Florida Technical College (DeLand)
 * International Academy Beauty School (South Daytona)
 * Palmer College of Chiropractic (Port Orange)
 * Phoenix East Aviation (Daytona Beach)
 * The Airline Academy (Daytona Beach)
 * WyoTech (formerly AMI) (Daytona Beach)

Volusia County
When I connected these markers to Wikidata, they also (automatically) included links to Wikipedia, which I don't think are helpful in this case. How do I cause those links to Wikipedia to not show? --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 22:53, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

 * When the automatic Wikipedia linking was implemented for the marker template, I remember bringing up this issue, and someone said it wouldn't happen for blue links, only red links. Unfortunately that has turned out to be only inconsistently true. The workaround I've used is to avoid connecting the markers to Wikidata—use "lat=" and "long=" instead. —Granger (talk · contribs) 23:46, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

 * Interesting. You can still use wikidata, but pass an islisting=yes argument. It's quite a nasty hack, though... ( I'd say argument named "sisterlinks=yes/no" would be better there?).-- andree.sk (talk) 05:17, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
 * He hasn’t been active here for some time. Would you know how to add the argument? --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 14:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks, Mx. Granger, for the suggestion. It definitely looks better now, due to the number of markers that were overcrowding the section of the article with Wikidata links. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 14:58, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Volusia County


text:
Talk:Vrijdagmarkt

How relevant is this article? Can't we capture any relevant Friday Market information in the Ghent article? I propose deletion - any other opinions?(WT-en) Sougato 08:26, 22 March 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Vrijdagmarkt


text:
Talk:Waco

Comments
Would it be out of line to make any more mention of the Branch Davidians than is already here? It's clearly not a topic that anyone in Waco relishes, but some of the surviving Davidians still live on the land, welcome visitors to a museum of sorts they have there and even give tours. (WT-en) Gorilla Jones 10:03, 20 October 2006 (EDT)
 * I think explaining what the beliefs are and what led up to the show down would be alright. I wouldn't get into all the details, though. -- Sapphire
 * I don't think anyone comes to Waco because of the Branch Davidians... and I always dislike folks associating Waco with this since it actually happened in Elk and not Waco proper. Just my two cents -- (WT-en) Samalex

I added a By Train section and mentioned the Amtrak station in McGregor, but I'm unsure if someone can rent a car there. If anyone knows this, please update the article since this is a great way to travel... Thanks -- (WT-en) Samalex

What's wrong with the See section?
The See section has not only one but two style tags. I'm unable to see what's wrong with that section, everything is listingfied and in order. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:35, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

 * If you don't see a problem, delete the tags. Someone probably put them there when there was a problem, and then when another person or persons fixed the problem, they didn't delete the tags. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:41, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Waco


text:
Talk:Waco, tx

Waco, tx

 * Waco article already exists. (WT-en) 2old 15:02, 27 February 2009 (EST)
 * Redirect as it's apparently a likely search term. (WT-en) LtPowers 22:54, 27 February 2009 (EST)
 * Merge with and redirect to Waco. - (WT-en) Huttite 00:11, 28 February 2009 (EST)
 * Now merged and redirected to Waco. - (WT-en) Huttite 00:49, 28 February 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Waco, tx


text:
Talk:Wadi Rum

I'm not going to post in the main page, but the "educatioanal" (sic) institute in Rum sure looks like a fun place to study: (WT-en) Jpatokal 08:39, 2 Nov 2004 (EST)

Protection of article
This post is to note that, due to numerous abusive edits, I have blocked unregistered users from editing this article. I hope it wasn't out of line to take action without consultations, and I apologize if it was. I'm not sure how best to have discussed this in advance.

All the best,

(WT-en) Ikan Kekek 00:47, 23 June 2011 (EDT)

 * See Project:Protected pages. Permanent protection should generally not be done without discussion, so I've changed this page to a one-week protection and added a line to the "Temporary semi-protection" section of the protected pages policy. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 01:19, 23 June 2011 (EDT)

 * Thanks, Ryan. But I believe this article will need much more than one week's protection. We've had lots of unexplained deletions and additions of entries for tours and desert "Sleep" listings. Where do I propose a much longer period of protection, such as at least 6 months? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 14:07, 23 June 2011 (EDT)

 * The guidelines for longer protections are outlined on Project:Protected pages - basically, just leave a note on that page explaining why the protection has been applied. Six months might be a bit long for a first-time protection, so I'd suggest starting out with a shorter protection and increasing it as needed. -- (WT-en) Ryan • (talk) • 21:08, 23 June 2011 (EDT)

Street addresses
Are there street addresses in Wadi Rum? If there are, the tour agencies listed under "Do" should all include them in their listings. But are there? (WT-en) Ikan Kekek 01:59, 21 December 2011 (EST)

"Stay safe" section
Should we really be warning people not to fall in love with Bedouins? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:41, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * It seems like odd advice - mentions a similar "scam", but it seems sort of like common sense to be wary of romantic entanglements with people you barely know. -- Ryan • (talk) • 05:04, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * How should we edit the section? What should be removed and what should be kept? Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:08, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I plunged forward - - but feel free to further edit or even revert my changes if they aren't an improvement. -- Ryan • (talk) • 05:52, 26 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I like the tone better. Thanks, Ryan. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:14, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Alternative banner for this article?
I created a new alternative banner for this article (I initially created it first and foremost so that it would be used at the top of the parallel article in the Hebrew edition of Wikivoyage, yet I later decided to also suggest that the English Wikivoyage community would consider using it here as well). So, which banner do you prefer having at the top of this article? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 04:33, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * The current banner is rather clear and the new banner is very hazy. I see the point of it, but I prefer the current banner. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:59, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Keep original. Suggest you use original for Hebrew wikivoyage as well. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 13:23, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Keep. Danapit (talk) 18:57, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Current. The sun in the new is interesting but the whole is too hazy. Syced (talk) 10:32, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wadi Rum


text:
Talk:Wagamon

Wagamon

 * Delete. An article about a hill that's good for picnicking. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 15:31, 22 May 2007 (EDT)
 * Redirect to Erattupetta -- (WT-en) Fastestdogever 10:26, 24 May 2007 (EDT)
 * Keep There is a Hill Station, a monastery and several hotels, not only a series of hills. See: &  (WT-en) WindHorse 09:37, 4 June 2007 (EDT)
 * Keep (WT-en) Pashley 22:00, 6 June 2007 (EDT)

So it was kept, but this article really needs a Manual of Style overhaul. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 18:35, 9 June 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Wagamon


text:
Talk:Wageningen

Err, am I more hungover than I think, or is this page not in English? (WT-en) Majnoona 14:17, 7 Apr 2004 (EDT)

 * It's not in English. Then again, I was at the same party you were last night. --(WT-en) Evan 14:20, 7 Apr 2004 (EDT)

title: Talk:Wageningen


text:
Talk:Wahroonga

where is nanital

title: Talk:Wahroonga


text:
Talk:Waiheke Island

This is a great start! Nice use of templates and manual of style... (WT-en) Majnoona 01:59, 25 Jun 2004 (EDT)

title: Talk:Waiheke Island


text:
Talk:Wailea

Swimming isn't reccomended at La Perouse? It's one of the highest rated snorkel spots in the islands!

I'd like to add www.waileacondorentals.com to the condos section of sleep, but because it is a property management company, first I have to get "consensus" on this page as per the rules for adding real estate rental agencies, here [].

title: Talk:Wailea


text:
Talk:Auckland/West Auckland

District
I have made this article part of Auckland, as it is mentioned in the district section of that article, which seems to cover the ARC area. However, it isn't named as a district should be, but I haven't fixed that. It is likely the best way forward is to have Auckland (the region), referring to Auckland the city, and the other cities in the region, and lose one level of the hierarchy. However, that can be discussed on the Auckland Region page. --(WT-en) inas 21:50, 14 July 2009 (EDT)

title: Talk:Auckland/West Auckland


text:
Talk:Wake Island

For reference, the following sites provided much of the information for this page:     - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 22:48, 22 April 2006 (EDT)

Warning box
So is the warning box still valid? Anyone know the current situation there? – (WT-en) cacahuate  talk 21:16, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

 * I've tried to find out, but since the place was Not Generally Open to Tourism before the typhoon, and a military facility to boot, they aren't exactly advertising the status of the place. All I can confirm is that the contractor who runs the facility has some active job postings, and that recovery operations are underway. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 21:51, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

If you want I could get info....
My dad "lives" there as a contractor and I dont know wikivoyages rules on content, I can ask him questions and he can do his best to answer them. Just post the questions on my talk page and I can get info usually on the next day or day after that (I talk to him every day).... What I do know is that there are only 2 television channels, internet bandwidth is small (satellite connection=crap), there are a small amount of women (sausagefest) so not much "eye-candy". Mail, supplies, etc. come regularly every 2 weeks.I **think** tha there are 276 people on the island (I will get back to you on that) so... just drop a question on my talk page and I will get back to you soon. (whoops I posted that without a login (i thought wikipedia account transfer to here)) (WT-en) Wiseblood 13:20, 24 September 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Wake Island


text:
Talk:Wakhan Corridor

Research link
http://www.mockandoneil.com/wakhan.htm  (WT-en) Cacahuate 07:43, 8 December 2006 (EST)

title: Talk:Wakhan Corridor


text:
Talk:Waldo Lake

Where's Waldo
Where's Waldo? Ha ha ha. Sorry, I saw the name of the article and had to make the joke. (WT-en) Sapphire 18:54, 27 March 2006 (EST)

vfd discussion

 * Another one of those Oregon articles. Merge with nearest city unless the lake is a destination. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 22:12, 14 March 2006 (EST)
 * THIS PAGE IS A WORK IN PROGRESS!!! DO NOT DELETE!!! -- (WT-en) Creightg 23:39, 16 March 2006
 * Okay, the lake looks large enough on its own, you can camp inside it, and it looks like it is part of something called Willamette National Forest . Just how big is this whole place? — (WT-en) Ravikiran 20:01, 16 March 2006 (EST)
 * Suggest merging it into a Willamette National Forest page. There's precedent for national-forest pages, and this one would be worth creating. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 21:43, 16 March 2006 (EST)
 * Replacement article Waldo Lake (redirected to) has a lot of good new content by (WT-en) Creightg. It's a valid destination. Keep Waldo Lake. -- (WT-en) Paul Richter 00:28, 17 March 2006 (EST)
 * Move to Willamette National Forest as the lake seems to be an attraction within the larger national forest. -- (WT-en) Ryan 00:44, 17 March 2006 (EST)
 * Agreed - move it into Willamette National Forest (when does the discussion stop and the moving start?) (WT-en) Tsandell 11:57, 27 May 2006 (EDT)
 * Actually, the discussion is over. This text is here only as an archive of the discussion on the Project:votes for deletion page. Since there was support for keeping the article, it was kept. But if you feel the content should be merged into Willamette National Forest (and this article turned into a REDIRECT there), you can do that. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 12:50, 27 May 2006 (EDT)

 * Waldo Lake is among the most chemically dilute lakes in the world, and the most studied ultraoligotrophic lake in the United States. Though it is true that for recreationalists the lake is simply a pretty feature of in a larger national forest; it is important to note that this lake is THE destination for the scientific community, and has historical significance outside the realm of the surrounding park.

title: Talk:Waldo Lake


text:
Talk:Wales

Welsh phrasebook
Is there only me thinks there should be a Welsh phrasebook? I know that English is spoken by most (if not all) Welsh people, be it there first or second language, but I think it would be much appreciated if a traveller to the region could have the odd phrase to use. I suppose it might help in the northwest where Welsh is spoken daily. I don't know a word of Welsh, but if there's someone out there who does and is willing to put in the effort, they should create the Welsh language phrasebook. (I couldn't find one, therefore I assume it doesn't exist).
 * Sure, I'll help set up a Welsh phrasebook (see Talk on main article). (WT-en) WindHorse 21:45, 30 January 2007 (EST)

 * Thanks, I'm sure there'll be many (not just me), who will appreciate it ;).

On a related note I have set up Babel Templates for Welsh (cy) if anyone wants to use them. (WT-en) Tarr3n 08:17, 25 July 2008 (EDT)

Work needed
OK, I think this needs some work-- there really ought to be more content than links on a country page like this and I'm pretty sure not all of these links are pointingat articles. I'm going to rip a bunch of it out and move it to a talk page so the hierarchy can get sorted out... can we make some sort of law against having regions _and_ districts _and_ sites _and _cities ;-)? (WT-en) Majnoona 01:12, 31 Jan 2004 (EST)

 * Districts moved to Talk:Wales/Districts. (WT-en) Majnoona 01:14, 31 Jan 2004 (EST)

So castles and monuments shouldn't have links-- they'll be part of the destination page associated with them. Anyone know which of the links under castles is pointing at a town and not just a site? thanks.(WT-en) Majnoona 01:29, 31 Jan 2004 (EST)

There really is starting to be a large list of small cities on the Wales page now: it definitely seems like it's ready for a level of regions to go in. I'm going to list on Project:Articles needing attention. (WT-en) Hypatia 05:12, 11 Apr 2005 (EDT)

Regions
Hey Paul, Excluding the three cities, there are actually 11 districts in South Wales. See Wikipedia - subdivisions of Wales. Then, when we include the districts of north and mid Wales, we have a list of 19 districts. As stated on the in Wales main article, these districts are already listed under their specific regional page, and I wonder what is the benefit of creating a long, dangling list on the primary page, especially as many of the districts are of little or no interest to travelers. However, if you feel this is of some use, then please change it back. I won't revert again. (WT-en) WindHorse 21 Jan 06

Hi. I've been trying to tidy up North Wales. The main problem (among many) is that the colour coding next to the counties list has extended down the page. I don't have much experience with Wiki Markup so I'd be grateful if someone can show me how to fix this. I know it must be straightforward! Thanks. (WT-en) Tarr3n 6 June 2008. This has now been fixed - thanks to (WT-en) Windhorse. (WT-en) Tarr3n 9 June 2008

Landmarks
I've removed "Millennium Stadium" from the Landmarks- it doesn't merit a mention for it's "Wales wide" significance as a Landmark, (it clearly is not as important as say Harlech Castle, and I'm not sure it's the most important building for a visitor to Wales in Cardiff even!)- however some of the stuff in the description of it was good, so I've put it in the Cardiff entry- the stadium clearly merit's a mention in the Cardiff Landmarks section, although I've updated some of the very outdated stuff. I don't think we can honestly say that a seinging the Millennium Stadium is itself the the highlight of anyone's visit to Wales now- it's 10 years old- so any novelty has worn off- indeed it's now only the 3rd newest major stadium in Wales, soon to be relegated to 4th! Of course the main thing that goes on in the "Millennium Stadium" is very important- the Six Nations Rugby Tournament- and there's a good section on that under a different heading in the all-Wales article. The Millennium Stadium bit was superfluous on this page. I also moved it down from no 1 to no 2 in the Cardiff Landmarks hierarchy too, but it does merit a mention there- since the fact that there are stadium tours means it is a tourist site in it's own right- but only in a Cardiff rather than an all-Wales tourism context. ~Voyager

Talk
Taken out the description of Wales as a "Principality"- and used the less contentious word "country".

Main arguments for the approach.

1. Wales is not a "Principality" in the sense that Monaco is- the term could be missleading to an audience outside of Wales. I suspect the "Monaco" example would be what would internationally be understood as a "Principality".

2. There is of course a (minor) political dispute about whether Wales is in fact a "Principality"- it get's close to taking a position on political questions of republicanism or monarchism, staying in the UK or otherwise. Not sure a tourist guide should use a word which has political connotations.

3. In common speach in Wales the term "Principality" is more commonly used to refer to the Financial Services organisation rather than Wales itself. (Indeed the name of the Principality Building Society is what it is because it was founded in the 1860s- when people thought in a different way).

4. The term being used to mean Wales is just plain Archaic. If it is used at all it would mainly by a minority of English people of a certain age, and world view. Indeed it has an almost comedy quality, along with the now disapeared anglicisied spellings such as "Llanelly".

(I wouldn't worry too much about putting the "Principality" discussion in the "respect" section- it's just not that important in Wales- just like you wouldn't say, "don't refer to the United States as the 13 colonies" in the respect section on the USA!).

(WT-en) Voyager 23:20 BST 25 May 2009

Oh dear the point about a minority of Welsh speakers being unable to speak English at all, I think is missing the point! I suspect in a literal sense the statement is true that some Welsh speakers don't speak English, but I suspect that most of those live in Patagonia, and the all of the rest of them would be pre-school children. So a tourist would be desperately unlucky if the only person they could ask for directions was a Welsh speaking Patagonian, (unless the tourists happened to be Spanish). I will make a more sensible ammendment.

(WT-en) Voyager 25 May 2009 23:30 BST

Do we HAVE to say "Welsh rarebit"? Can we not say "Welsh rabbit", which is what everyone who eats it has always called it, as any fule kno? God knows who originally came up with the "rarebit" perversion. Markcymru (talk) 03:35, 23 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Siwmae, Mark. By all means add "rabbit" to the article, but not instead of rarebit, which is a legitimate alternative name and has been used since 1725. It may have been a perversion back then, but it stuck. Personally, I call it cheese on toast ;-) ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 08:32, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

ROADSIGNS
I've put in a bit on bilingual roadsigns under "talk".

Is it appropriate to put it there first of all?

My rationale was that perhaps a visitor to Wales- particularly one who'se first language is neither English nor Welsh- may have potential difficulty with them, especially if they weren't aware that the signs were in fact billingual???

Indeed what got me thinking about this was on a visit to the Isle of Skye- I recall the roadsigns colour coded the differenct language- blue for Scotish Gaelic, Black for English. I remember thinking that was a much clearer than our bilingual signs in Wales. (Although that couldn't work in Wales- because of the fact we have Motorways and Primary Roads, with different coloured backgrounds on the signs).

The other protocol with bilingual signs that people may be familiar with is to italicise one language- however that never happens in Wales with road signage at least.

So I can see potential isses for some people with the way we do road signage in Wales for some visitors.

It maybe my addition was a bit of overkill. I would imagine from the point of view of a Fluent English speaker, (or Welsh Speaker) it would be- but I was trying to think from the perspective of someone who doesn't speak either language as their first one. But it would be helpful if someone who has visitied Wales, and whose first language wasn't English could share their view on whether this addition is helpful?

(WT-en) Voyager 31 May 2009 23:40 BST

 * Hey Voyager... I agree that information about bilingual signs should be included... I remember a neighbor from the US who lived in Swansea for over a decade before she realized that Swansea and Abertawe were the same place. She just assumed that Abertawe was a place near Swansea. I have made slight edits to your information to make it a little more compact. Please feel free to change as you wish. Thanks for all your great help with the Wales article. (WT-en) Frequenttrekker 23:03, 31 May 2009 (EDT) PS. I don't know if this is nitpicking, but I changed 'English name' to 'indigenous name'. For example, Swansea is not the English name for the city, but the name that evolved locally from the original Scandinavian. Abertawe was a Welsh name that was introduced later.

 * Yes- Frequenttrekker's ammendments have by and large been vast improvements on what I put in. The only thing I changed straight away though- was the implication that Welsh wasn't an indiginous language- it starts opening up a language can of worms. Although interestingly there is a scholarly argument that Frequenttrekker is right on the Abertawe/ Swansea example- certainly the evidence of written language points to Swansea being the older form- although of course this doesn't prove anything regarding spoken Welsh and English and which version was used first! So granted there is a good argument, that "Swansea" is the indiginous form there. However Swansea/ Abertawe is unusual, generally the Welsh form for a placename is clearly older than the English one, (and very often the English form is similar or identical to the Welsh version)- and so would clearly Welsh would be the "indiginous" form- and it's beyond any doubt that Welsh- (or some similar "ancestor" language) was spoken in Wales, or for that matter the rest of Britain before English- although if you want to open up the can of worms of Welsh being the "indiginous" language of England that is up to you! ;) Although I suppose in fairness it may be relevant and of interest to a traveller in an article about specific places in England which have "Welsh" place name- e.g. "Dover" in Kent, or "Pen Y Ghent", in Yorkshire- actually a bit more of an interesting story than having a Welsh place name in Wales- just like the story of "Swansea" is more interesting than other place names in Wales!

(WT-en) Voyager 00:31 BST 6 June 2009 P.S. I've started to look much more closely at road signs- I always used to take the view that it was us billingual people who suffered the most- because our brains mixed things up, not differentiating the two languages instantly with Monolingual English speakers able to ignore the Welsh version as "gobblydegook", but I am not so sure now- that being said I still think we should have them...

 * Hi Voyager. I appreciate your long reply, and you make some goods points. However, my main assertion was that the name Swansea is not English. It has nothing to do with Anglo-Saxon, but is derived from the original Viking name for the settlement. Before the Vikings there is no evidence of a settlement at the mouth of the Tawe, so it is very unlikely that a Welsh name preceded the Scandinavian one. From literature, it appears that a Welsh name did not appear until around the 13th century. Calling Swansea the English name implies that there was a Welsh name and later the Anglo-Saxons imposed an English version, which is not the case. The name Swansea evolved from Sweyn's-Ey to Swansea among the community itself. The original town of Swansea, South Gower and Mumbles were not Welsh speaking, and this remains much the case today. In this way, Welsh is not the indigenous language of that area. Here's a quote from Wikipedia: Swansea originally developed as a Viking trading post, and the name Swansea is believed to be derivation of "Sweyn's Ey" ("ey" being the Old Norse word for "island"). "Sweyn" is a mutation of the Viking name "Sven") and the latter part of the name comes from "sey" ("sey" being an Old Norse word that can mean "inlet"). Consequently it is pronounced Swans-y /ˈswɒnzi/), not Swan-sea. The Welsh name first appears in Welsh poems at the beginning of the 13th century, as "Aber Tawy". Anyway, maybe it is just nitpicking, but I think it is good to present travelers with as accurate information as possible without becoming too much like Wikipedia. Regarding your change, I agree. Swansea is the exception. For most other places, the non-Welsh name is of English derivation and as you say we don't want to open a can of worms (though Tenby may be another exception...)    (WT-en) Frequenttrekker

MOS Warning box
Ok I know this article is not perfect, but is the MOS warning box still relevant? If so can we make a list of things we need to resolve so that we can get rid of it? One thing is getting rid of the quickbar (WT-en) Tarr3n 09:15, 26 February 2010 (EST)

 * I plunged forward, fixed some outstanding issues, and think Wales is ready for the MoS bar to be removed =) --(WT-en) globe-trotter 12:40, 26 February 2010 (EST)

The Wales Challenge: A Fistful of Nuggets!
Howdy, all!

I've set a Challenge to all Wikivoyage language projects: to complete just over 10 articles on some of the gold nuggets of Wales - the little corner of this planet where I was born and bread! Every article needs a few essential elements: sleep, drink and eat as well as 2000 bytes of text. The first language to complete the Challenge will get a Gold Dragon Barnstar - as well as the user who has collected the most points. Have fun!

I look forward to meet you at the Saloon - please add the points yourself and tick the grid to show that it's done! Many thanks, or as we say in the BIG COUNTRY (Wales of course!) - "Diolch yn fawr!" Llywelyn2000 (talk) 12:27, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

 * It does sound like an interesting project, but it would likely require some first-hand knowledge of Wales which I'm afraid most Wikivoyagers do not have. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:03, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

 * As you can see from this map, there is fairly extensive coverage of Wales in English, but some of these articles are just an introductory sentence or two. German also has over a dozen articles. As ϒpsilon say these articles are best improved by people who know the area. It is a long time since I visited Wales and I haven't been to anywhere on your list.
 * Maybe it would be best to raise some interest from people in Wales by contacting a local radio station or newspaper. Maybe you could also interest people in translating articles - generally from English to other languages. AlasdairW (talk) 21:51, 2 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Great ideas: I've Tweeted the request too. Let's see what happens! Any help will be appreciated, for the other languages are unable to translate from en if there are no articles! Take a look at this comprehensive Italian discussion at their theirTravellers' pub. Llywelyn2000 (talk) 22:00, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Wales entries
Is someone running a Wikivoyage awareness course in Wales? This is the third time we have had a spate of edits from multiple users on the same day promoting various websites and locations. Obviously we welcome more contributors and Wales does need more listings in the town pages, but please make sure people are aware of the difference between entering useful information about their business and touting. --Traveler100 (talk) 16:09, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Yes to all that you said. When people post listings for a holiday lettings agency without street address in multiple articles, it takes a fair amount of work to delete them all. People wanting to list such agencies need to read this site's rules on rental listings, external links and how to avoid touting and be aware that no business can be listed in more than one article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:46, 8 December 2014 (UTC)

Remove north, mid and south regions?
The three regions of Wales described in this article have no political status, and weak cultural or natural significance. The ten counties described in these articles make up a proper number for division of Wales. Compare to Germany, where sub-national regions were recently scrapped. What do you think? /Yvwv (talk) 18:20, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * From the point of view of number of subregions it would make sense but there are historical cultural difference between South and North Wales in regards to economic and ethnic backgrounds. Also the transport links in Wales are very East-West orientated making get in sections distinct. --Traveler100 (talk) 18:56, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

A photo for the Politics section
Following my reorganisation of the 'Politics' section, I've been looking on Commons for a photo. I wanted something that depicted the Senedd building, though stuff like the first picture is a bit similar to the lead image of the article. I looked instead at events depicting traditional costume, and found the others you can see. Aside from #1's similarity to the lead image, I am unsure about featuring people - particularly kids - so prominently, and couldn't really find any guidance around this; Image_policy is of no help, and Commons:Photographs of identifiable people only mentions minors in the context of "an obese child" being a description to avoid (well, duh). Photos depicting children and young people enjoying activities come up in paper brochures and other online guides all the time, but not so much here. Is there a policy I've missed or perhaps a legal concern? If there are other photos you'd like to suggest, preferably ones without a moral dilemma attached to them, then by all means do. Pinging people I know are active on Commons - --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 16:47, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

There are thousands of Flickr images from the Parliament, but I didn't see any of a parliament session - I thought something like First Minister's questions would show the building in use. I am not keen of the photo of kids - it doesn't relate to the topic, the dancers would be ok, but I would rather see politicians going into the building. We could just show a picture of the First Minister, ideally with some opposition leaders. For a different view of the Senedd building, there are some good pictures of its roof. #6 shows the chanmber in use, but unfortunately for a conference not a parliament session. AlasdairW (talk) 22:52, 11 October 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for commenting and proposing new photos. Certainly, none of ##2-4 relate to politics, though I did think they were more relevant to travel. I like both of your photo proposals, #5 more visually and #6 more thematically (they do normally have their laptops out when in session so I don't think the fact it's not actually a parliamentary session matters), and quite like the fact that the participants in #6 look like they're about to be eaten by the time vortex :).--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 17:36, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wales


text:
Talk:Wales/Districts

Regions
Geographically and culturally Wales is divided into these regions: In 1996 the following administrative areas were created:
 * North Wales
 * Mid Wales
 * West Wales
 * South Wales
 * Aberconwy and Colwyn
 * Anglesey
 * Blaenau Gwent
 * Bridgend
 * Caerphilly
 * Cardiff
 * Cardiganshire
 * Carmarthenshire
 * Conwy
 * Denbighshire
 * Flintshire
 * Gwynedd
 * Merthyr Tydfil
 * Monmouthshire
 * Neath and Port Talbot
 * Newport
 * Pembrokeshire
 * Powys
 * Rhondda, Cynon, Taff
 * Swansea
 * Torfaen
 * Vale Of Glamorgan
 * Wrexham

So I moved this stuff here for an overhaul. First, do we need all of this? Is it really going to be useful to the majority of travellers? It there going to be enough content at each level to make it worth a users while to go Wales->South Wales->Cardiff(district)->Cardiff(city)? What would be on the North Wales article that would not be part of Wales or one of the destinations in North Wales? Secondly, the links need to be reworked to disambiguate districts from cities where needed (ie Cardiff) or from other places like Newport. Comments? Help? (WT-en) Majnoona 01:26, 31 Jan 2004 (EST)

I agree with you that perhaps the Admin districts are over the top. However, I think we need something to allow tourists to identify with particular areas. The problem at the moment in Wales is that there are the main geographical areas, the old traditional counties (which only exist in peoples minds, not on maps or road-signs), the old admin areas and the new admin areas. A good example is Glamorgan, this is the old county which doesn't really exist anymore, the old admin areas of South, Mid and West Glamorgan, and the multiple new admin counties such as Vale of Glamorgan etc etc. These all cover the same area. If you look at Wales Geography you'll see more information. My suggestion is that we add the geographical/cultural areas (North, South, Mid and West) and just give a verbal reference to the existence of the current admin areas to avoid confusion when people see them on road-signs. (WT-en) Liassic

Whilst from a tourist perspective a split of Wales say into say South, Mid and North is generally more useful, however there is some point in refering to the administrative areas, (or Unitary Authorities Areas) since generally each of these authorities has a department for promoting tourism within their territory, and may have some useful content on part of their website, even an official tourism website. (Added 10/1/7)

title: Talk:Wales/Districts


text:
Talk:Walking around the Old Town in Warsaw

This is a great article, but I have a couple of questions (sorry if I've somehow missed previous conversations about this elsewhere). I'm not sure I like the table at the bottom -- why not use the Project:Related articles? I also have concerns about the markup around the bus numbers and stuff -- I think it looks good, but both of these things raise the technology threshhold on the page significantly. There are going to be plenty of users who will be scared off from updating these areas. Comments? (WT-en) Maj 16:40, 22 August 2006 (EDT)
 * I used Project:Related articles at Warsaw/Bemowo for a similar purpose but, as I was told, it is wrong. However, I think what counts is that
 * the linkboxes are more intuitive than related links and
 * the markup around bus numbers increases readability and prints well and gracefully degrades too
 * The implementation indeed involves some clutter in the page source but it could be quite easily better done with:
 * a template for an inline box with a given border, background and text colors (the bus numbers)
 * an ability to transclude pages (the linkbox)
 * So the question to you is: do you dislike the implementation or the very idea of it?
 * (WT-en) CandleWithHare 17:27, 22 August 2006 (EDT)

 * Well, maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I think he says "they should be used for loose relationships, so a link to a travel topic or an itinerary would be fine," so this would probably fall under that.
 * In regards to the bigger issue of linkboxes and bus markup, I think it's some interesting ideas that need to be discussed and, if agreed on, generalized into our Project:Itinerary article template. The we can go ahead and create templates, etc, to support usability.
 * Again, great work on this! (WT-en) Maj 02:49, 23 August 2006 (EDT)