text:
Talk:Sydney

Map of Sydney Trains and Trams
Just found a map of the future train and tram network in Sydney.

SHB2000 (talk) 11:31, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

 * Look forward to see these stations slowly come online! I'm guessing the western airport ones (M3) is at least 10 years' away. Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:21, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

 * It'll probably only be constructed when the construction has started on the M10 motorway. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 09:22, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

This sentence:
I think this sentence may not be the best thing for travellers: "''* Adelaide - Sydney = 1422 km via Mildura or 1659 km via Broken Hill (A32)."

I've never known anyone who has chosen to drive either of these routes. Instead, for those who take the car, we take a bunch of shortcuts, however, it does get a bit wordy. Here it is: via Hume Hwy, Sturt Hwy, Balranald-Tooleybuc Road, Murray Valley Highway, Mallee Highway, Dukes Highway, Princes Highway and the South Eastern Freeway

This route takes about 1350km from CBD to CBD but takes a lot less if you're from most other parts of Sydney.

However, there's a bridge that's not so driver friendly, which questions me to whether I should add this or not. This is the bridge.

All opinions welcome, SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 11:15, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

"It does not snow in Sydney,"
For the past week, I've disagreed with this statement:

"It does not snow in Sydney,"

It's been snowing in the blue mountains continually for the past week now! This is rather unusual, but it's something happening in the last five years. I'm presuming these are the effects of climate change, but that sentence is no longer true. So may I remove it? It does not snow in most of Sydney, but the Blue Mountains is part of Greater Sydney. Also, here's a map for those who are wondering where the unclear boundaries are. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 00:01, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

 * Perhaps rephase to "It does not snow within Sydney city limits [or municipal boundaries, or whatever term is correct for Oz], but parts of the Greater Sydney area do see snowfall." Nelson Ricardo (talk) 02:07, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

 * If I recall correctly, Sydney's winters are milder than Adelaide's, but even Adelaide never snows, except perhaps on the top of Mount Lofty. And even then it's an extremely rare occurrence, and doesn't happen every year. I won't be surprised if it snows in the Blue Mountains, but I presume it won't be every year either, unlike the Snowy Mountains or Mount Buller (both of which I've never been to). The only place in Australia in which I have experienced snowfall is at Cradle Mountain in Tasmania, ironically during the summer. Anyway, I think we need to give an accurate impression that at least in urban Sydney, the winters are mild, and you will only occassionally get snow at higher elevations. The dog2 (talk) 03:45, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, snowing in the blue mountains regularly is only a very new thing. Also for the urban bit, I'm not sure if Katoomba and Mt. Victoria are considered un-urban. But yes, I highly agree with you about Sydney's winters, which usually on a day like today, it would ideally be 18˚ but this year it's unusually 14˚ which is really cold. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 05:05, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I think the statement as it's phrased is reasonable -- keep in mind many readers will be from places where winters routinely snow. A minor amount of understatement is okay if it aids comprehension. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 05:26, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, but really, that's only Europe, Siberia, Japan, Korea and North America. Travellers from other parts of the world, where would often find Sydney a lot colder. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 05:35, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * It was a maximum of 9C in the Sydney CBD yesterday but that was a 1-in-25 year event (possibly 1 in 40). We can rephrase it to rarely or clarify that the peri-urban area of the Blue Mountain does see snow occasionally. Gizza ( roam ) 05:56, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * While I believe the cold weather is just a result of La Niña, the snow is somewhat new. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 06:09, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I just came across this beauty: . Nelson Ricardo (talk) 02:02, 12 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Ha! never expected someone to photoshop an opera house like it's Scandinavia (high mountains). On a more realistic note, here's just some photos I came across reddit when looking for some photos (went to the Blue Mountains on thursday as well, and confirmed, but no photos.)   (bin chicken staying away from the cold) . --SHB2000 (talk) 02:16, 12 June 2021 (UTC)

The Maps are Outdated, Vague and Inaccurate
I've attempted to update and provide accuracy to the page with newer more specific maps and region descriptions of Sydney. The existing ones go back to somewhere between 2010-2013 and aren't accurate nor do they make any sense. The newer maps are; Map of Central Sydney CBD and Inner City Suburbs with Description.png Map of Greater Sydney Regions and Suburbs With Heading.jpg

The index description for each region is below;

Central Sydney

Inner City Sydney CBD, The Rocks, Dawes Point, Millers Point, Barangaroo, Haymarket Postcode: 2000 LGA: City of Sydney (North End)

Inner City-West Suburbs: Pyrmont, Ultimo, Chippendale, Darlington. Postcodes: 2007, 2008 and 2009 LGA: City of Sydney (North-West Side)

Inner City-East Suburbs: Surry Hills, Darlinghurst, Woolloomooloo, Potts Point, Elizabeth Bay, Rushcutters Bay. Postcodes: 2010 and 2011 LGA: City of Sydney (North-East Side)

Eastern Sydney

Eastern Suburbs Suburb examples: Bondi, Paddington, Double Bay, Vaucluse Postcodes: 2021 to 2030 LGA: Waverley Council, Woollahra Municipal Council, The Centennial Parklands, City of Sydney (Far East Side) Western Boundary: Eastern Distributor, South Dowling Street, Boundary Street, Neild Avenue and Rushcutters Creek

South-Eastern Suburbs Suburb examples: Randwick, Coogee, Maroubra, Botany Postcodes: 2031 to 2036, 2052, 2018 and 2019 LGA: Randwick City Council, Bayside Council (East Side) Western Boundary: Eastern Distributor, Southern Cross Drive and Mill Stream. Southern Boundary: Botany Bay

Southern Sydney

Inner South Suburb examples: Redfern, Zetland, Alexandria, Mascot Postcodes: 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2020 LGA: City of Sydney (South End), Bayside Council (North End) Northern Boundary: Central Station and Cleveland Street. Eastern Boundary: Eastern Distributor, Southern Cross Drive and Mill Stream. Western Boundary: Alexandra Canal and T3 Train Line. Southern Boundary: Botany Bay.

Southern Suburbs (St George) Suburb examples: Rockdale, Hurstville, Peakhurst, Sans Souci LGA: Georges River Council, Bayside Council (West Side) Northern Boundary: Wolli Creek and M5. Eastern Boundary: Botany Bay. Western Boundary: Salt Pan Creek. Southern Boundary: Georges River.

Sutherland Shire Suburb examples: Sutherland, Miranda, Caringbah, Cronulla LGA: Sutherland Shire Council Northern Boundary: Georges River and Botany Bay Western Boundary: Mill Creek Southern Boundary: Port Hacking

Northern Sydney

Northern Suburbs Suburb examples: Galdesville, Ryde, Epping, Beecroft LGA: Hunters Hill Council, City of Ryde, City of Parramatta (North-East End), Hornsby Shire Council (South End) Northern Boundary: Byles Creek and Devlins Creek. Eastern Boundary: Lane Cove River. Western Boundary: Pennant Hills Road, Marsden Road and Wharf Road. Southern Boundary: Parramatta River.

Lower North Shore Suburb examples: North Sydney, Mosman, Artarmon, Chatswood LGA: Mosman Council, North Sydney Council, Lane Cove Council, Willoughby City Council Northern Boundary: Boundary Street and Blue Gum Creek. Western Boundary: Lane Cove River.

Upper North Shore Suburb examples: Lindfield, St Ives, Pymble, Turramurra LGA: Ku-Ring-Gai Council Eastern Boundary: Middle Harbour Creek and Garigal National Park. Western Boundary: Lane Cove River, Coups Creek and The Pacific Highway. Southern Boundary: Boundary Street and Blue Gum Creek.

Outer North Suburb examples: Pennant Hills, Normanhurst, Hornsby, Berowra LGA: Hornsby Shire Council (East Side) Eastern Boundary: Lane Cove River, Coups Creek and The Pacific Highway. Western Boundary: Berowra Creek. Southern Boundary: Byles Creek and Devlins Creek.

Forest District Suburb examples: Frenchs Forest, Forestville, Duffys Forest LGA: Northern Beaches Council (West Side) Northern Boundary: Smiths Creek. Eastern Boundary: Mona Vale Road, Forest Way, Morgan Road, Oxford Falls Road and Frenchs Forest. Western Boundary: Cowan Creek, Middle Harbour Creek and Garigal National Park.

Lower Northern Beaches Suburb examples: Manly, Balgowlah, Dee Why, Narrabeen LGA: Northern Beaches Council (South-East End) Northern Boundary: South Creek and Narrabeen Lagoon. Western Boundary: Oxford Falls Road and Frenchs Forest.

Upper Northern Beaches Suburb examples: Mona Vale, Avalon Beach, Palm Beach LGA: Northern Beaches Council (North-East End) Northern Boundary: Pittwater and Broken Bay. Western Boundary: Mccarrs Creek and Wirreanda Creek. Southern Boundary: South Creek and Narrabeen Lagoon.

Western Sydney

Inner West Suburb examples: Marrickville, Leichhardt, Burwood, Concord LGA: Inner West Council, Burwood Council, City of Canada Bay, Strathfield Council (North End), City of Sydney (Far West Side), Canterbury-Bankstown Council (North-East End) Northern Boundary: Parramatta River. Eastern Boundary: Alexandra Canal, Erskineville, Camperdown and Glebe. Western Boundary: Centenary Drive and Homebush Bay Drive. Southern Boundary: Cooks River.

Inner South-West Suburb examples: Earlwood, Campsie, Roselands, Punchbowl LGA: Canterbury-Bankstown Council (East Side), Strathfield Council (South End) Northern Boundary: Cooks River. Western Boundary: Fairford Road, Stacey Street, Hume Highway and Salt Pan Creek. Southern Boundary: Wolli Creek and M5.

Western Suburbs Suburb examples: Auburn, Fairfield, Westmead, Blacktown, LGA: Canterbury-Bankstown Council (North-West End), Fairfield City Council (North End), Cumberland City Council, City of Parramatta (South End), Blacktown City Council (South-East End) Northern Boundary: Parramatta River, Old Windsor Road and M7. Eastern Boundary: Centenary Drive and Homebush Bay Drive. Western Boundary: Western Sydney Parklands. Southern Boundary: Chullora, T3 Train Line, Orphan School Creek and Clear Paddock Creek.

South-Western Suburbs Suburb examples: Bankstown, Cabramatta, Liverpool, Prestons LGA: Canterbury-Bankstown Council (South-West End), Liverpool City Council (North-East Side), Fairfield City Council (South End) Northern Boundary: Chullora, T3 Train Line, Orphan School Creek and Clear Paddock Creek. Eastern Boundary: Fairford Road, Stacey Street, Hume Highway and Salt Pan Creek. Western Boundary: Western Sydney Parklands. Southern Boundary: Holsworthy and Macarthur.

North-Western Suburbs Suburb examples: North Parramatta, North Rocks, Northmead LGA: City of Parramatta (North-West Side) Northern Boundary: Hills Motorway. Eastern Boundary: Pennant Hills Road, Marsden Road and Wharf Road. Western Boundary: Old Windsor Road. Southern Boundary: Parramatta River.

Outer West Suburb examples: Mount Druitt, St Marys, Kingswood, Penrith LGA: Blacktown City Council (South-West End), Penrith City Council (South End) Eastern Boundary: Western Sydney Parklands. Western Boundary: Nepean River.

Outer South-West (Macarthur) Suburb examples: Campbelltown, Gregory Hills, Narellan LGA: Camden Council, Campbelltown City Council Eastern Boundary: Georges River. Southern Boundary: Nepean River.

Outer North-West Suburb examples: Cherrybrook, Castle Hill, Baulkham Hills, Rouse Hill LGA: Hornsby Shire Council (West Side), The Hills Shire (South End), Blacktown City Council (North End) Eastern Boundary: Berowra Creek and Pennant Hills Road. Southern Boundary: Hills Motorway and M7. 2405:6E00:289:B4FC:49C6:F3AA:3D01:764D 15:14, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Concept for New Page Sourcing
Sydney has a compact city centre surrounded by sprawling suburbs, all coming together to form a vast and diverse metropolitan area.

Central Sydney
Central Sydney is very abstractly shaped roughly like a stubby left hand, palm up; The thumb and beginning of the wrist is The Inner City West, the tip of the large index finger is The Inner City North, the second and third fingers are The Royal Botanic Garden and the oversized pinky finger is The Inner City East.

Greater Sydney
Sydney is a vast sprawling city, and the suburbs in the city metropolitan area spread for up to 60km from the city centre. The traveller visiting the suburbs will find less crowded beaches, parks, cheaper shopping, commercial centres, cultural festivals, and other such hidden gems.

Greater Sydney is surrounded by towns and peri-urban areas connected by railways which include The Central Coast up north, The Hawkesbury to the far north-west, The Blue Mountains further west, and Wollongong down south. 2405:6E00:289:B4FC:49C6:F3AA:3D01:764D 15:15, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Discussion

 * – I've lived in Sydney for over a decade ever since my upper primary years of school and while these regions do make sense for a resident like you or I, it does not make sense from a travel perspective and on Wikivoyage, the traveler comes first. (and thank you for reverting the unilateral changes to the districts). There are several shortcomings with this proposal:
 * Refering to Sydney/City Centre is very postcode-oriented. Most people outside NSW will have no idea that it's referring to suburb of Sydney itself (or the area specifically with the postcode 2000).
 * The other "Inner City [cardinal point]" names are obscure. We use City East, City South, The Rocks and Darling Harbour because these names are unambiguous, the most common names used in English and is what is signed on the ground (for others following this discussion, here are some signs on the surrounding freeways that use such names – I would give other examples, but GSV primarily only includes road coverage in Sydney CBD:, , , , , – street signs also use similar names, but I don't have photos of them)
 * More often than not, the Eastern suburbs includes your proposed Southeastern suburbs. If that article does get overloaded, I would much rather prefer that article specifically to be districtified further into Bondi, Woolhara and Randwick city – or something along the lines of User:SHB2000/ES).
 * I'm sorry, but no-one but you considers the Kingsford Smith Airport area as part of the Inner South (this term isn't commonly used in the first place)
 * Your proposed "Southern suburbs" is even more vague – most people in my area refer to that region as the St George area. The content in Sydney/Sutherland Shire which includes both the St George area and Sutherland Shire also isn't particularly large enough to warrant splitting the two.
 * The Inner Southwest is much better known as the Canterbury–Bankstown area (and no, I'm not saying this because the council is known as the the Canterbury–Bankstown Council, it's because that is what's used to refer to that area). However, we cover that as part of southwest Sydney because there simply isn't enough travel content to warrant two separate articles.
 * No-one in the Macarthur area calls their region as outer-southwest Sydney.
 * The Hills district is one of Sydney's most recognizable districts, namewise. Splitting it into northwest and outer northwest doesn't make sense from a travel perspective.
 * The northern suburbs is a vague term. I'd prefer keeping the current name, Macquarie Park and Ryde, even though it includes other places like Eastwood.
 * Is there really a need to split up Sydney/Northern Beaches up into two (or three)? The place labeled "Forest District" is very unrecognizable.
 * The same applies with Outer North.
 * Don't get me wrong. The existing region structure isn't perfect – but it certainly does use names that are recognizable and one that factors in travelers. I, for one, would favor a district structure that factored in the various serene national parks that this city has to offer (specifically Royal National Park and Ku-ring-gai Chase National Park) on the lines of Canberra, but this structure was intricately chosen because it makes sense from a travel perspective. It's not set in stone, but the status quo is much better than your proposed unrecognizable and non-descript cardinal names which don't help travelers. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:27, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, to the anon, are you the same user as Mapper2000? SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 09:29, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
 * In response to all of your points
 * 1. Postcodes are the best way to break up the inner city districts and to some degree areas of Sydney in general. How else are you to properly say which suburbs should be grouped into which category other than someone's pure unreliable POV.
 * 2. While signs in Sydney may say 'city south' or 'city east' the suburbs surrounding the CBD are always referred to as 'inner city suburbs'. When you're in areas like the Sutherland Shire main road direction signs no longer say 'city' like they do in the inner west for instance and will list 'Sydney' instead, does that mean that we should take the signs literally and say areas like The Sutherland Shire are not within Sydney purely because of the signs terminology.
 * 3. Eastern Sydney is generally divided culturally, socioeconomically, demographically and geographically based on direction from the city. Many sources say that the eastern suburbs is just Waverley, Woollahra and Randwick however the part of Bayside Council that used to be 'City of Botany Bay' which is east of The Eastern Distributor, Southern Cross Drive and Mill Stream quite often used to be included within Eastern Sydney as well. While Waverley, Woollahra and Randwick all established around a similar point in history and collectively cover the coast of Eastern Sydney, Waverley and Woollahra together cover the older suburbs that were developed directly east of the city around the harbour and Bondi with postcodes 2021 to 2030 before expansion later went south down to La Perouse. Randwick council with the exception of Centennial Park has the postcodes 2031 to 2036 and all suburbs within are geographically south-east of the CBD with newer more spread out roads that aren't as clustered as Waverley and Woollahra. The eastern suburbs also has roads like New South Head Road and Oxford Street while the south-eastern suburbs has Anzac Parade in a completely different direction from the CBD. Sydneysiders in Vaucluse do not consider Maroubra to be part of their area and vice versa.
 * 4. Since when does Redfern to Mascot ever get called the 'Kingsford Smith Airport' area or as the existing map says 'Botany Bay & Airport' which highlights all the suburbs around Botany Bay as if they're part of the same region of Sydney when they most certainly are not as they're all on different parts of Botany Bay divided strongly by The Airport itself. This area is often considered indefinite and hard to define and sometimes gets grouped with the south-eastern suburbs and/or included as part of Eastern Sydney by default. The area itself however is definitely neither east nor south-east of the CBD and is separated from Eastern Sydney by The Eastern Distributor, Southern Cross Drive and Mill Stream. Colloquially the area is sometimes called 'South Sydney' much like the 'South Sydney Rabbitohs' and the former 'South Sydney Council' which looked after the area. Inner South is a perfectly acceptable and accurate term for this region and while it hasn't caught on colloquially the term Inner South is used by The Official Australia Bureau of Statistics in their definition of the region.
 * 5. St George and Sutherland are both part of Southern Sydney this does not mean they're in the same part of Sydney nor are suburbs like Hurstville and Miranda anything alike. The reason I've called the region Southern Suburbs is again to help travellers understand that while the area is south-west of the city it's actually considered part of Southern Sydney being just above the Sutherland Shire. While this region is referred to as St George which I've included in the description of the area, it gets its name from The Parish of St George which actually includes everything below the Cooks River below the Inner West in the Canterbury region however modern day references of St George exclude this part of the parish within Canterbury and only includes everything below Wolli Creek and The M5.
 * 6. The Inner South-West is an odd little region wedged in between the inner west and the southern suburbs. This area is technically the northern part of The Parish of St George which although is included within south-western sydney I felt deserves its own distinction from the rest of the south-western suburbs being closer to the city. It's more similar to the former 'Canterbury' Council, I don't think putting a suburb like Bankstown in this region makes much sense however as referring to a suburb like Bankstown as 'inner' anything would make a Sydneysider cringe in disagreement.
 * 7. Official Australian Bureau of Statistics does call this area 'Outer South-West' as the Macarthur region itself continues quite far south outside of Sydney so calling it Outer South-West acknowledges that it's the part of Macarthur that is within Greater Sydney and not Macarthur as a whole.
 * 8. The Hills is a vague area of Sydney while can mean different things to different people. In a literal sense it's The Hills Council however 'The Hill District' can include western parts of The Hornsby Shire and northern parts of Blacktown Council as it does in the new map, hence the reason for calling it one region of Outer North-West and not just 'The Hills' which wouldn't give a traveller much information at all.
 * 9. The northern suburbs is basically a safe term for the part of Northern Sydney that doesn't fit into the conventional northern districts of North Shore, Outer North, Forest district nor Northern Beaches. It again includes areas outside just 'Macquarie-Ryde' and stretches down to Hunters Hill and up to Beecroft.
 * 10. The Northern Beaches Council is quite a large area with suburbs and neighbourhoods far away from each other. Colloquially Sydneysiders do refer to the region as three pieces. No one considers Manly, Palm Beach and Terrey Hills to be in the same region as each other. The councils got amalgamated to appease the liberal government this does not mean that telling a traveller to expect the same experience out of Palm Beach and Frenchs Forest is accurate just because they're part of the same council.
 * 11. Outer North is a tricky one and like mentioned in its description can be considered an extension of Upper North Shore or if it appeases people 'Outer North Shore' at any rate many people would disagree with suburbs like Pennant Hills, Hornsby and Berowra being included in the Upper North Shore and since they're all part of the Hornsby Shire and don't fit into the 'Northern Suburbs' category I felt Outer North is appropriate, we can add the word 'shore' if it makes the residents happy. Upper North Shore to Wahroonga is already far enough away from the actual 'shore' to then have to also include 'Berowra'.
 * While you may not like change or are happy and comfortable with the existing maps, it doesn't make much sense to say that they're better than the new scheme which is far more precise especially for travellers who wouldn't understand what 'St George' means. 2405:6E00:289:B4FC:581:37C3:DA1:6C8A 16:42, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Time for a rebuttal? Well, it looks like the time has come.
 * With the exception of a few places like the UK, NL or AR, Wikivoyage for the most part, does not care about postal codes. These have little to no impacts for travelers and especially not in the case for Sydney CBD.
 * Nobody but you and your potential IP socks claim that.
 * Yes, but is there enough content in Sydney/Eastern suburbs to warrant three different articles? Plus, per Avoid long lists, it would be much better if they were split up as subdistricts from there (kind of like NYC's boroughs).
 * Maybe that would be a reason to rename Sydney/Botany Bay, which should be done on Talk:Sydney/Botany Bay. That does not require an entire districts overhaul.
 * Local names are always better than nondescript and vague names that you and your potential socks/meats propose.
 * Lack of travel content to warrant a completely separate article.
 * Okay, I'll bite: I have family and friends who used to live and work here. Not a single one of them use the official bureaucratic name.
 * Calling the Hills as outer northwest is even more vague and nondescript since this is a term that no-one uses. I, for one, came to think of Windsor or Richmond when I first heard of that name.
 * No political polemics, please. I'm a local to this area and it's not something that I'd recommend to travellers visiting my area of the city.
 * Lack of travel content to warrant completely separate articles that are intuitive for travelers.
 * I think recognizability triumphs your point, IMO.
 * Likewise, you might not like the existing structure, but using the example you mentioned, "St George" is clearly more specific than "southern suburbs" which is vague, not as recognizable and nondescript. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 08:13, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

 * Strong Agree – It's about time someone has bothered to make an updated map of Sydney. The old maps have fulfilled their purpose however they're now very stale.
 * The old Greater Sydney map has oversized regions and group areas together that don't have much to do with each other nor are they the same. 'Airport & Botany Bay' which appears to include suburbs like Redfern, Sans Souci and Eastgardens, none of which are in the same region of Sydney. 'St George & Sutherland Shire' two distinct parts of Sydney, not the same region. 'Hills & Hawkesbury' these two are not only distinctly different but they're also not even connected via neighbourhoods while The Hills is part of Greater Sydney and The Hawkesbury generally speaking is not. 'Penrith Valley' as a region doesn't make any sense and is exceeding what is generally considered part of The Penrith Area. 'Upper North Shore' while can occasionally include areas like Hornsby definitely does not go up as far north as Berowra the way it does in the map.
 * The new Greater Sydney map has given each section of Sydney its own identity by keeping the terms simple with just their direction from the city which is better for travelers. I do feel however that in the description of each they could include bracket headings of the colloquial names of the areas within the regions e.g. Eastern Suburbs (Waverley, Woollahra), Outer North West (Hills District), South-Eastern Suburbs (Randwick, Botany), Outer South West (Macarthur), Inner South (South Sydney & Airport). I do think the new Greater Sydney map perhaps has maybe too many regions and that certain regions could be grouped with others but unless Mapper2000 is willing to redo their work and tweak it slightly the new map is still far superior from the old one regardless. I feel grouping the regions into the five districts of 'Central Sydney', 'Western Sydney' etc definitely makes it easier for travellers.
 * The old Central Sydney Map is incredibly inaccurate and should not only be taken off this page but deleted from Wikimedia altogether. Darling Harbour is oversized and in reality it does not go up that far nor does it include Pyrmont and Ultimo like it does in the map. Darling Harbour is just the westernmost point of 'Sydney' if you look up the address of The Maritime Museum as an example, it's not a suburb of its own. The City East including Paddington and Moore Park doesn't make any sense as they're not generally considered part of 'Central Sydney' nor are they within walking distance from Sydney CBD and their postcodes are 2021, outside the inner city postcodes. The Rocks area is also oversized including Dawes Point, Millers Point and Barangaroo which are all separate suburbs to The Rocks.
 * The new Central Sydney map is much more coherent and groups the suburbs together well into proper districts apart from Prince Alfred Park which although is south of the city is actually part of Surry Hills which means it should technically be Inner City East. It's also correctly labelled the previously large 'The Rock' into 'Inner City North' acknowledging the other three suburbs. I also feel the terms 'Inner City East' and 'Inner City West' make more sense than 'City East' and 'City West' as the old terms imply that these suburbs are part of the CBD when they're suburbs of their own, Sydneysiders also refer to these suburbs as 'Inner City'. The postcode grouping of Inner City West and Inner City East on the new map makes more sense than the old Central Sydney Map that basically just guesses or assumes what constitutes 'city west' and 'city south' which appears to be purely opinion based.

While the new maps aren't 'perfect' and I feel everyone would have a different opinion or idea of what a map of Sydney should look like, the new maps are still far superior and more accurate than the old ones. —The preceding comment was added by 203.49.228.129 (talk • contribs)
 * –203.49.228.129 has made few or no edits outside this topic.

 * I have lived in a few areas of Sydney, so I’ll limit my comments to these areas.
 * I grew up in Beecroft and went to school in Hornsby, so I completely agree that this area is the Northern Suburbs. It’s always been called this. Likewise the description of the Upper North Shore is completely accurate. The Eastern Suburbs is likewise accurate and basically how people refer to the areas described.
 * In terms of Berowra, when my parents moved from Beecroft we moved to Berowra. I’m not entirely sure what that area was known as. In this case, I do wonder if it might be better for the purposes of Wikivoyage that we name it something more local and descriptive - I’m not entirely convinced people from that area would call it Outer North. I think they considered themselves either as closer to the central coast, but this may have shifted as the area has increasingly gentrified.
 * I worked in North Sydney, and that was always known as the lower North Shore. So I’m in agreement with this.
 * Parramatta area is considered the Western Suburbs, so I agree with this name.
 * I live in the City of Liverpool and we are absolutely the South Western suburbs, but mostly shorten this to “The South West”. I’d include the City if Fairfield in this also.
 * I hope my 2c are useful :-) - Chris.sherlock2 (talk) 10:36, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:53, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Central Sydney Districts.png
 * Will be speedily kept, totally silly deletion request. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:34, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks like this user is not here to build a travel guide. --Ypsilon (talk) 14:59, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Messed-up transport mapmasks
Apologies – it's a WIP and the output as of writing this is a dog's breakfast. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 11:04, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

 * User:SHB2000/Sydney and Newcastle transit mapshapes is a link to what it should look like – I've already implemented much of this on pages like Sydney/Darling Harbour and Sydney/Sydney Olympic Park, for reference. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 23:56, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Re: Mapper2000 using Commons as a platform to disrupt Wikivoyage
See discussion at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:LibStar for some followups... Daceyvillain (talk) 04:35, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sydney


text:
Talk:Sydney/ArchivedDistrictDiscussions

Larger districts
I made the districts into subpages for the following reasons:
 * Sydney/City - There is already a Sydney page and Sydney (city) is just too confusing. Maybe it should be Sydney/Central.
 * Maybe Sydney/CBD -- although what is meant by "City" here is I think a larger area than the CBD? -- (WT-en) Hypatia 15:31, 14 Sep 2004 (EDT)

 * the Sydney/Eastern Suburbs - And how many other citys inb the world have an eastern suburb?
 * the Sydney/Northern Beaches - Northern Beaches is ambiguous, so I moved the page.
 * the Sydney/North Shore - North Shore is a disambiguation page.
 * the Sydney/Inner West - Ambiguous as Inner West.
 * Parramatta - Consistency.

I also unwikified the bodies of water, Port Jackson and Parramatta River. I am doubtful about the plains being wikified too. -- (WT-en) Huttite 20:05, 4 Jun 2004 (EDT)

I don't think the suburbs should be wikified either, although I see Manly already has its own stub. By and large the suburbs of Sydney are too small to deserve their own pages. If the Rocks doesn't get one, Manly definitely shouldn't.

 * Well, maybe the Rocks should have its own page.... I would support such a move. There's certainly enough just within the Rocks for travellers to warrant a separate article AND the area is sufficiently different in character from the rest of Sydney City and the CBD to create the distinction. I strongly disagree with Hypatia re Manly (I know, as a Manly boy, I may be biased on this point....). I created the article as it stands because Manly - like Bondi - is a destination in itself, the sole and purposeful target of many a ferry trip across the harbour from Circular Quay.... I also think it will have enough to fill a decent-sized article.... Once we have finished! (WT-en) Pjamescowie 15:56, 14 Sep 2004 (EDT)

 * OK that might work, but Sydney/Northern Beaches seems to have wikified everything. I can see the case for Sydney/Manly and quite likely Sydney/Palm Beach and a few others (and perhaps some non-beach suburbs like Newtown), but I'm not sure every beach-side suburb in Sydney deserves its own page when, for example, even Paris is only divided into districts.

 * Perhaps talking about deserves is wrong.

 * I suppose my idea is to not divide too finely at the beginning. So for example, I think there is no point creating Sydney/Newtown when Sydney/Inner West doesn't exist yet. Wouldn't it be better to start filling out Sydney/Inner West and then later moving or expanding into Newtown itself? In the same way, having a reasonably complete Northern Beaches article might be a better aim than a bunch of very small articles for each suburb. At least as a beginning. -- (WT-en) Hypatia 04:11, 15 Sep 2004 (EDT)

 * Another note is the "do you sleep there" rule of thumb. A few suburbs pass this (Bondi certainly, Manly I imagine so), but I'm not sure about the Rocks. -- (WT-en) Hypatia 05:29, 17 Sep 2004 (EDT)

Smaller districts/suburbs
Note, please update this to reflect the consensus on Talk:Sydney/Refactoring

Discussion with User:(WT-en) Pjamescowie shows that the current consensus is:

Larger district articles like Eastern Suburbs and Inner West will be linked from the main Sydney page, and be districts immediately under Sydney: Sydney/Eastern Suburbs, Sydney/Inner West.

Individual suburb articles like Manly, Balmain, Kings Cross etc etc will be created when we have enough information to warrant an article on them and will also be districts immediately under Sydney: Sydney/Manly, Sydney/Balmain, Sydney/Kings Cross. However, they won't be linked from the main Sydney page. Instead, Kings Cross would be linked from Sydney/Eastern Suburbs, Manly from Sydney/Northern Beaches and Balmain from Sydney/Inner West.

So, a partial example:

 * Sydney is a huge city page and it links to:
 * Sydney/Northern Beaches
 * Sydney/Eastern Suburbs
 * etc etc

 * Sydney/Northern Beaches is a district article and it links to:
 * Sydney/Manly
 * Sydney/Palm Beach
 * etc etc (for suburbs which have enough data for their own article)

Sleep entries
I thought a big city article didn't get sleep entries on the front page, but there are several at Sydney. Should these be moved to districts? (WT-en) Hypatia 21:42, 22 May 2006 (EDT)
 * Moved and a note added in comments (WT-en) Hypatia 09:08, 24 June 2006 (EDT)
 * Sleep entries seem to have returned, many with descriptions copied verbatim off the hotels' websites. I'm moving them to their districts, and removing any text that's obviously a copyvio. (WT-en) Spiv 10:56, 21 September 2006 (EDT)
 * Argh! The sleep entries are back, despite the comment in Sleep section saying that individual items do not belong there. How can we avoid misguided contributions here? (WT-en) Spiv 01:14, 2 November 2006 (EST)

 * I think Saturday morning cartoons say it best - "Destroy them!" Seriously though, sometimes people actually read and pay attention and for the most part when no one does what he/she is directed to do it's best to curse your computer and grudgingly filter the listings and explain it directly to the user the proper way to do something.  Thanks for your help! -- (WT-en) Andrew H. (Sapphire) 02:32, 2 November 2006 (EST)

More on suburbs
I'm still dubious about the current practice of starting an outline for seemingly every suburb in Sydney. Certainly, a number of suburbs do have enough infrastructure to merit an article. Sydney/Manly and Sydney/Parramatta for example. But there are over 200 suburbs in Sydney: do we really think that it's helpful to the traveller to write 200 articles about it, or even 50 articles? Compare Singapore for example, which has about the same population and is of reasonable geographical size. My own feeling is that we should concentrate on really getting the existing district articles done well before writing articles for individual suburbs. With this in mind, I'm going to re-direct some articles, for example Sydney/Newtown and Sydney/Chatswood to their respective districts. (WT-en) Hypatia 09:08, 24 June 2006 (EDT)
 * For what its worth, suburbs I'm currently dubious about: Sydney/Clovelly, Sydney/Bronte, Sydney/Mona Vale, Sydney/Woollahra, Sydney/Warriewood, Sydney/Collaroy, Sydney/Beacon Hill, Sydney/Malabar, Sydney/Chatswood, Sydney/Newtown. I can kind of see how this could go either way: most suburbs of Sydney do have a little shopping strip and probably at least one or two places to sleep. But is it to the traveller's advantage to write each of them up as an article? Other large cities don't seem to be going this way. (WT-en) Hypatia 09:16, 24 June 2006 (EDT)
 * For an idea of the size and number of Sydney suburbs, see, and note that that is about one sixth of the Sydney area. (WT-en) Hypatia 06:50, 26 June 2006 (EDT)

Oatley
This page is orphaned. I appeal to others as to where it belongs. (WT-en) OldPine 11:58, 2 November 2006 (EST)
 * Probably in Sydney/Sutherland when anyone else actually starts to care about our districts... :) (WT-en) Hypatia 21:53, 6 November 2006 (EST)

Except that it isn't in the Sutherland district
 * This is now merged into Sydney/Southern Sydney

Southern Beaches
Is there really a district of Sydney called Southern Beaches? The current entry really only repeats information that is the the Bondi and Eastern Suburbs sections. The Cronulla beaches are usually called that, and considered part of the Sutherland Shire district. It would also make sense to entend the South Sydney district area to be as far south as the Georges River, and not stop at the Airport as specified now. That means we have the south eastern suburbs of Sydney covered in three districts. Eastern Suburbs - including Bondi, Coogee etc, South Sydney, including airport, Botany Bay, and closer in, and the Sutherland Shire, for the Cronulla beaches, etc.--(WT-en) Inas 19:20, 11 January 2007 (EST)
 * Feel free to make that change. I don't know a lot about districts south of the airport. (WT-en) Hypatia 19:32, 11 January 2007 (EST)
 * Ok, I have redirected Southern Beaches to Eastern Suburbs, since most of the info contained in there related to Bondi Beach, which is in that district. I made sure all the attractions were already referenced in the appropriate articles.  I have changed South Sydney, the Southern Sydney, since South Sydney could be confused with the area that used to be the South Sydney Council area, around Redfern etc.  This district is now described as going from the CBD south to include the aiport and Botany Bay.  There is no page for that district yet.  I have created the Sutherland Shire district page and populated it, without duplicating anything that is only in the Cronulla and Royal National Park entries.  It would be nice to think that the Sutherland Shire district could be covered by that article, with just two additional ones for Cronulla and the Royal National Park, being the real areas that would be frequented by visitors, but we will see, I guess..--(WT-en) Inas 23:35, 11 January 2007 (EST)

 * Please make sure the links match the names of the articles! Also, things like "Sydney/South Sydney" are redundant, why not just "Sydney/South"? (WT-en) Jpatokal 01:23, 12 January 2007 (EST)

 * I checked the links and names again, and I can't find anywhere that I have made the mistake of the links not matching the article names. I have removed the wikified link in the By Plane section, which is the only remaining link I can find to the non-article Sydney/South Sydney.  Since there is no Sydney/South Sydney in existance (unless I have made a mistake somewhere) the argument over whether it should be Sydney/South or Sydney/South Sydney is academic in this particular case.  I can see an argument for keeping, say, Sydney/North Sydney, over just Sydney/North, where North Sydney is the name of district, rather than just a directional thing within a city.--(WT-en) Inas 03:21, 12 January 2007 (EST)

 * South Sydney is something of an artefact of the former South Sydney city council area, now amalgamated into the City of Sydney. I do support keeping "North Sydney" over "North", because "the North" refers to everything north of the harbour, and "North Sydney" refers to the group of suburbs immediately north of the harbour. (WT-en) Hypatia 07:32, 31 January 2007 (EST)

South West
Seems like there isn't a article on it yet.

 * There is now --(WT-en) Inas 18:43, 29 October 2008 (EDT)

Sydney Districts - Are they Working?
It seems to me that the Sydney districts still aren't working well. Much of the information on the main page relates to Sydney CBD. People continue to post accommodation and other entries on the main page, causing administrative overheads.

In my opinion - we should remove Sydney CBD as a district. We can then relocate all the information to the main Sydney page. We can then link off to other districts for people who want more information about other districts of Sydney, but make the main Sydney page packed with central Sydney goodies, rather than the half hearted page it is currently, containing some references, only a little accommodation etc?

Are there any other opinions?

(WT-en) Inas 21:01, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

 * Unfortunately that's not the way we do things — cities are either districted or not, we don't do halfway houses.

 * Districts work rather poorly everywhere, and presently the only solution is constant vigilance. Some technological fixes are in the pipeline, but I'll let Evan say more about that... (WT-en) Jpatokal 22:03, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

 * Okay, so are we prepared to remove things like "Skate", "Museums and Galleries", and put them in the appropriate district where they belong?
 * (WT-en) Inas 01:58, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Suburban
Hey! I was wondering, prob inas will help, if, and only if, cause I don't know Sydney tat well, is if some of the districts listed in the ummm main article are actually not within city limits, rather just within the metropolitan region? Like in Edmonton, Southgate is a suburb but it's within city limits, whereas Sherwood Park is a suburb that is it's own city and should not be discussed in the main article except GET OUT or a link to the metro area page. Those should have minimal information, rather just a link to the city's page. I don't know. Wanted to clarify, hope I helped, if not, sorry if I am being like stupid with this. Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee talk 18:08, 4 November 2008 (EST).
 * Its a reasonable question. There is a suburb, Sydney, in the centre of the city.  locally this is known as the City, it is a few km across, and you can think of it as the CBD.  There is a local government area, called the "City of Sydney"  this takes in the City, and some surrounding suburbs.  This grouping is really only used when talking about local government issues.   Then there is the Sydney Metropolitan Area.  This is what most people mean when they talk about Sydney.   It is around 100km across, with a population of around 4.5 million.  Greater Sydney extends even further out to the lower Blue Mountains, Central Coast, Wollongong, and Camden but these areas are covered in separate articles.  To make matters even more confusing, some of the major local government areas within the Sydney Metropolitan Area, like Parramatta are officially cities as well, although the only person who would ever actually call Parramatta the City of Parramatta would be the local government officials.  Every other Sydneysider would just call it Parramatta and (correctly) consider it a suburb in the Sydney Metro Area.  So, after that, I guess the answer to your question, is yes - all the districts listed are within the Sydney Metro Area.  The upshot is (as with other huge cities on Wikivoyage) that there is more often more focus on the districts of metropolitan areas, then the areas that are the focus of normal travellers.  I would think most travellers to Sydney would not go much further than the City Darling Harbour and Bondi Beach, but still the information is there for the traveller who may be interested.  --(WT-en) Inas 18:50, 4 November 2008 (EST)
 * Aiiight...so I'm not an idiot? Ok!  Well I do believe as I said you aren't supposed to consider suburban municipalities/satelite towns/whatever as a city disttrict of the main city.  I am sorry if I am adding peressure-you seem to be under some.  ANyways...I hope I am not making things worse like if you have to move these into new articles because they aren't within city limits.  I understand some of the suburbs ARE within city limits, but some are their own city and shouldn't be shwon as a district...like Parramatta, you said it youresefl, ittt's it's own city!!!!!  Yeah, it doesn't matter if peeople in Sydney would consider it apart of the city---in Seattle, people would call Redmont, Edmonts, Lynnwood, Kent, and Auburn apart of the city, which is all fine and whatever because in a way, it is, like it is just another thread to the quilt of Seattle, but it's own city, and it would need it's own article, not just a district.  I know like everybody calls it like apart of the city, but OFFICIALLY it isn't so you can't have it like that, I believe .Sorry!  Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee talk 19:01, 4 November 2008 (EST).
 * This article is on the Sydney Metropolitan Area, this is a both the practical (what people think of as Sydney), the political (as defined in the maps), and a tourism region .  When you drive into the Sydney Metro Area, you will see large road signs, that say "Welcome to Sydney".  Sydney metro is split into about 40 local government areas (LGAs), for adminstration purposes.   About 20 of these LGA's are called cities, 3 are called shires, and the rest are just plain old LGA's.   Using LGA's as districts for Sydney Metro was considered, but many of these are obscure.  Sydney/Bondi is world famous, but who knows it as the Waverley LGA, and are we making a guide for travellers, or town planners?  It would be doing the traveller a disservice to have Bondi Beach, in the Get Out section of the Sydney article.  Cities in Australia don't really work the way they do in the US and Canada.  The equivalent would be saying  that the City of Westminster should be excluded from the districts section of the London, as it is also a city in its own right.  Doesn't really make sense.  See the wikipedia entry for Sydney  for more geographical info if you are interested.  --(WT-en) Inas 20:22, 4 November 2008 (EST)
 * Oh, ok, points well taken! I see they are different than Can/America!  Thanks, have a wonderful day!  Keep smiling, (WT-en) ee talk 21:05, 4 November 2008 (EST).
 * Thanks for raising the ideas. It made me do a double take, and think about it again, to make sure we were doing it the right way.  Got to be a good thing.  --(WT-en) Inas 21:44, 4 November 2008 (EST)
 * (first time talker!) I've thought long about how the Sydney article is districted, and conclude that although it loosely follows geographic or LGA boundaries, we should really re-focus it for the benefit of the traveller. I've been using this fantastic site as a traveller for only 18 months and find the best sites on large cities are those that focus on relevance to the traveller. That is, you woud have the high level article describing the "inner city" or "old city" relevant to travellers, which would also include pointers and links to big attractions in other districts (eg, Bondi, Fox Studios, National Parks), then just a half-dozen or so other district articles. So for Sydney, the relevant articles would be Sydney (CBD, harbour islands and west to Casino), Sydney/Beaches, Sydney/Inner West (west to Balmain-Enmore), Sydney/Inner East (east to Paddington), and Sydney/Suburban. I'm of two minds whether Parramatta deserves an entry as a district. There's a lot to write about Sydney and its districts but most of it belongs in Wikipedia. Wikivoyage works best when it uses a traveller paradigm. (WT-en) Ronaldo123 17:45, 12 January 2009 (EST)

 * That wikivoyage users a travelers paradigm goes without saying, really. That is certainly the mission here.  However, in every case I am aware of, districted cites push the main content down a level, and don't maintain the "old city" content in the high level article.  Look at Chicago, San Francisco, London, Paris, etc for examples.  If they didn't do this, the sections like Get In, become confusing.  Country trains, sydney airport etc, have to be covered in specific area articles, not in a covering article.  Not that this invalidates your point in any way.  There is still a requirement to get the districts to best suite the traveler.
 * Lets start simple. Let assume we are talking about the "inner city" relevant to travelers.  At the moment, we have Sydney/City, Sydney/The Rocks, Sydney/Darling Harbour, Sydney/Haymarket, Sydney/Kings Cross, and Sydney/Darlinghurst to describe this area.  Would you make all these into one article?  It is is a lot of content - different ways of getting in and out, lots of different attractions to list.  It seems that the first thing you would do is to group the attractions, accommodation, and transport information into geographical areas - light rail is no good for kings cross, etc.
 * Huge cities are hard on Wikivoyage. Canberra is the perfect size, and country towns are easy.  I don't think we should omit parts of Sydney because they are not relevant to the normal international traveler.  Sydney is more than that, and many people travel for different reasons, and end up in different places.  Lets give them the info on how to get there, and what to see.  People visit family, travel for work.  The absence of a tourist infrastructure doesn't mean wikivoyage shouldn't cover the area.

--(WT-en) Inas 18:30, 12 January 2009 (EST)
 * You're absolutely right, and I admire your line of thinking (+ your user page comment about a Sydney district map - of which I also have thoughts). In response, I agree that Sydney/City is needed to distinguish from the headline article. Part of the "City" is The Rocks, Chinatown/Haymarket, and Darling Harbour. They each may have enough content for their own article as currently exists. I differ with your inclusion of Kings Cross, Darlinghurst and Paddington in Central Sydney - they would form the core of Sydney/Inner East. Similarly, Sydney/Inner West should be limited geographically to the Pyrmont-Balmain-Enmore-Erskineville ring. Sydney/Beaches can include eastern suburbs beaches, northern beaches, southern beaches, harbour + bay beaches; the challenge here is defining the getting in/out for the broad geographic area; but at least it makes sense for a traveller: Sydney=beaches. Sydney/Suburban is covering the remaining area, which as you suggest provides content for relevance to those travelling for family or work, the national parks, or even to include interesting "secret and unique" areas like Cabramatta! There are some well written articles here which I think are redundant, either because the detail level is too much or they are so specific they in fact regurgitate what's on the location's own website (eg, Sydney/Sydney Olympic Park - this should be mentioned as a prime attraction of the city, with a paragraph description and location plus link to the official site (which for the traveller is kept up to date much better than Wikivoyage contributors) - but this can be discussion on separate page). I don't want to sound like I'm trampling all over the great work that's been done for Sydney so far, but as you know the districts are tricky and I think some tough decisions need to be made so we can select a core group of around 6 districts, hopefully derived somehow from this discussion. (WT-en) Ronaldo123 19:41, 12 January 2009 (EST)
 * I'll try an address your points.. I'm sorry that each point ends with a but..
 * Inner East - I agree that Darlinghurst, Kings Cross, etc don't form part of the City proper, as The Rocks and Haymarket do. However - this may not be a travellers perspective.  Distance wise, Kings Cross Station is closer to downtown than Star City, and many people stay there, go out there etc.  Also Inner West is a common term used in describe Sydney areas.  Inner East is just made up.  No one will actually know where it is, and if a traveler were to ask directions, or discuss the area with others, or on another site, they would just get dumbfounded responses.
 * I don't agree that wikivoyage should not cover areas covered comprehensively by other guides. There is a link to the official site if people would rather go there, they are free to.  But - this guide is not free.  It is copyright, it can't be distributed, can't be modified, corrected etc.  There are lots of good guides out there for lots of areas, but wikivoyage is here to develop an unencumbered, free, editable guide.  The official site will never be this.  The official site won't tell you that there is nobody at Sydney Olympic Park pretty much all of the time, outside of the events and Bicentennial park.  It won't tell you that you'll be stuck eating a $10 hot dog if you are don't eat before 10pm on a weeknight.  Hopefully a proper wikivoyage article will.  The official site won't tell ever tell you train to Concord West is $1.00 cheaper than the train to Olympic Park.  Wikivoyage is the guide, not a link to a guide.
 * Sydney Beaches. I agree this would make a great article.  Have a look at what I did with beach descriptions in Sydney/Eastern Suburbs, where I went through each of the beaches, put a small amount of access information and some description of the beach.  Its difficult to make it fit the district format though.  Get it, Get around, See, etc, would be different for each beach.  Many beachside suburbs in Sydney have their own restaurant strip, own accommodation.  Take Sydney/Cronulla for example.  It has its own Get in, own bars, accommodation.  What would an article actually look like on Sydney Beaches? Could we fit it within the manual of style at all?  Perhaps its not a destination at all, but a travel topic, Beachgoing in Sydney?
 * Inner West, is basically as you have described it already. It also in theory includes areas like Leichhardt, Annandale, etc, which are commonly considered to be part of the Inner West.  I think of the areas heading west as Inner West, Olympic Park, Parramatta, and Outer West/Further West.   This leaves areas like Granville, Lidcombe probably in Parra, Strathfield probably in Inner, Flemington probably in Olympic Park, Auburb in Parra?  Who knows, really, when it comes to these places.  However, I don't really want to add another district between Inner West and Parra.
 * I don't want to sound like I'm being negative, but without any real precedent for some of your ideas, I'm trying to figure out how they should work. It sounds like you are suggesting rings around Sydney, so we have Sydney/Coast, Sydney/City, Sydney/Suburban, or something like that?  Surely something like Sydney/Suburban would be so large as to make most of the wikivoyage sections meaningless?  I'm thinking some sort of middle ground, might be the districts  Sydney/City, Sydney/East Sydney (rather than Inner Eas), Sydney/Inner West, Sydney/Eastern Suburbs (including beaches), Sydney/Western Suburbs, Sydney/Southern Suburbs (including southern beaches), Sydney/North Sydney, Sydney/Northern Suburbs, Sydney/Northern Beaches, Sydney/South Western Suburbs, Sydney/North Western Suburbs.  This covers pretty much the entire region.  Then we have specific article for areas of tourist interest, like Sydney/Bondi, Sydney/Sydney Olympic Park, Sydney/Darling Harbour, which we don't really consider as districts per se, but destinations of specific interest.  At least with a scheme like this, it is immediately evident where everything goes, and we leave those wiser who come after us a conventional system which can be divided, split or merged with relative ease.  --(WT-en) Inas 21:35, 12 January 2009 (EST)

 * I've had a go at the district section of the main page. Now there are sections for the centre (including starting to merge the three suburbs into East Sydney.  Then major leisure destinations, and then the suburbs.  If people aren't interested in visiting the suburbs, and just want the major visitor centres, then they don't have to read them.  Do you think this is an improvement, or on the way to an improvement?  --(WT-en) Inas 17:46, 13 January 2009 (EST)

 * You might want to have a look at how I did with Copenhagen, small districts in the center where the attractions are packed, and then two (or 3 depending on how you look at it) huge districts where the attractions are further apart - I think it works quite well. --(WT-en) Stefan (sertmann) Talk 18:25, 13 January 2009 (EST)

 * In repsonse to Copenhagen, I think that we are that much bigger that the structure becomes unwieldy. Inas, I like what you've done with the districts on the main page, and it certainly feels like it's heading in a good direction. And perhaps with these slight changes we can sit back and watch how it settles down for a bit. The structure of the beaches in [Sydney/Eastern Suburbs] reads very well. Thanks for setting me straight on the Olympic Park example, I agree with most of what you've said. There's something about Southern Sydney which doesn't quite fit right. I'm not sure whether St George area shouldn't be part of Sutherland, and it is puzzling that there isn't more content especially considering the accommodation options around the airport. Nevertheless, we should see how it grows over time. Back to Beaches, the topic idea is a good one but would "Beachgoing in Sydney" be too narrow ... should it be "Beachgoing in Australia"? More work for the keen! (WT-en) Ronaldo123 00:24, 14 January 2009 (EST)

I've put a merge notice on Sydney/Darlinghurst, that it will be merged with Sydney/Kings Cross into Sydney/East Sydney. I'm still not a 100% sure that this is a good idea, because in effect Sydney/Darlinghurst is an article about the Oxford St Gay Scene, and I imagine that this makes it interesting to a gay travellers, without having to wade through all other info in Kings Cross. And Oxford St does have a different vibe and feel to the cross, as well as different ways to get there and away. As always, comments, suggestions appreciated. --(WT-en) Inas 17:39, 14 January 2009 (EST)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Sydney/ArchivedDistrictDiscussions


text:
Talk:Sydney/Bondi Beach

Deletion of Bondi Beach info
I have to say I`m amazed that you think it trivia that there are no sun shelters available on Bondi Beach, either free of for hire. Even had my wife and I not got burnt due to that inexplicable ommission it would most certainly not be trivia. I wish the addition to be replaced, whether you wish to delete the external link is up to you, I`m not so bothered about that, it was only in there to illustrate the inconsistency of no sun shelters on Australian beaches. How can Australia be serious about skin cancer whan it`s the only country I`ve ever been to where there are no sun shelters available on a beach ? ! ? For instance at Ipanema or Copacabana virtually everyones under a sun shelter, including the locals. Are you from Australia by the way ? The reason I ask is that everyone I meet who isn`t from Australia thinks it surprising there are no sun shelters avaliable on Bondi, it`s only Australians who think it`s not worth mentioning. The thing is, most readers of that page aren`t from Australia......

Incidentally, how are you supposed to bring your own sun shelter if

A You don`t expect there to be an absence of said sun shelters, or

B You`ve flown to Australia.

Perhaps Australians aren`t bothered about sun damage for tourists ?

On the subject of "trivia" are you saying this : "Bondi has become a favourite of the "barmy army" of British tourists, who annually gather on its sands for a Southern Hemisphere Christmas in the sun" isn`t trivia ? ! ? --(WT-en) JustinSmith 04:35, 2 April 2010 (EDT)

Justin: Please don't put your text on several pages. I replied here. (WT-en) jan 10:13, 2 April 2010 (EDT)

Sorry about that, though I think it should have been on here rather than on your talk page anyway. Incidentally, where is it on that page ? ! ? --(WT-en) JustinSmith 13:31, 2 April 2010 (EDT)

Oporto in "Eat"
I think this can be an exception to WV:BORING since it was the first Oporto (a Portuguese-themed chain) to open. Other thoughts? -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 12:17, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

 * We typically list the first McDonald's to have ever opened, etc., so go for it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:18, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sydney/Bondi Beach


text:
Talk:Sydney/Castlereagh Street

I'm not sure where this fits into the district hierarchy that's currently on Sydney -- can someone merge this content and redirect to the proper district or add this to the district list on the city guide if it should be it's own... thanks (WT-en) Maj 23:07, 28 July 2006 (EDT)

Sydney/Castlereagh Street
(WT-en) Inas 01:07, 19 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Delete - Is just a shopping street in Sydney. No information on the page is solely relevant to the region, rather to all shopping in Sydney CBD.  Does not meet Wikivoyage guidelines for an article.
 * Redirect to Sydney (WT-en) WindHorse 23:08, 21 April 2007 (EDT)
 * Redirect, but to where? Shouldn't this go into a district of some kind instead?  BTW, the page wasn't flagged with a vfd banner (it is now), so let's give it another day or two before making decisions. -- (WT-en) Bill-on-the-Hill 22:51, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

title: Talk:Sydney/Castlereagh Street


text:
Talk:Sydney/City

Redirect
I'd like to quibble this redirect. The "city" usually means City East, City South, City Centre (note this has a different meaning compared to the rest of the world), Darling Harbour and The Rocks all combined. -- SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta.wikimedia) 01:37, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sydney/City


text:
Talk:Sydney/City Centre

Live music and Nightclubs
Soup Plus and the Basement are currently under Drink/Nightclubs, but I think of them more as music venues than as "Drink" venues. There's a "Live Music" subsection growing under "Do", perhaps they should moved there? (WT-en) Spiv 02:55, 12 August 2006 (EDT)
 * Anything nightlife should probably be under "Drink" even if they are solely music venues. Obviously, a symphony orchestra isn't exactly on the nightlife scene so that would belong under "Do."  A very large music venue that can accomodate several thousand probably best belongs under "Do" too, but that can be open for debate depending on the place.  The Project:Where you can stick it page can help you figure this out too.  Does that answer your question? -- (WT-en) Andrew Haggard (Sapphire) 03:03, 12 August 2006 (EDT)
 * That makes sense. I've done that, thanks.  (WT-en) Spiv 22:44, 26 August 2006 (EDT)

cbd?
i was wondering if it's really appropriate to call it the cbd in the in the main one. .i mean do we want to promote this area as just a business centre? i am sure there are highrise condos and luxury stores aswell. lets face it, 90 % of cbd's are very boring and dull because all the officce workers are gone and theres nothing open...do we want to portray that image? keep smiling, (WT-en) ee talk 23:43, 4 November 2008 (EST).
 * Call a spade a shovel, I say. Yep, much of it is as you describe, when the office workers go home.  The areas around the Harbour, Haymarket, The Rocks and Darling Harbour stay lively though.  I've added some lines to Understand to describe it, what do you think? . --(WT-en) Inas 00:34, 5 November 2008 (EST)

City centre explanation
I removed the following passage because I literally can't understand what it is trying to say. Additionally, the reference to 'South Australian English' is a bit of a red flag in terms of understanding this country.

"Speakers of UK or South Australian English (and other dialects that use "city centre") should note that "city centre" refers to the centre of the CBD (aka downtown) – it is not synonymous with the original meaning of city centre nor downtown."

Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:45, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

mapframe needs new implementation
The existing mapframe (I think from wikidata) just greys out the entire area, so I removed it.

Given the WV split between the city centre and the Rocks, it would be great if someone who understands maps could fix this? Andrewssi2 (talk) 01:37, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

 * This is a temporary wikidata issue; leave it up and it'll return as normal. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 06:25, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I thought this has been happening the past two weeks at least with this article? Doesn't feel temporary (hence the request to fix). Andrewssi2 (talk) 19:24, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
 * It happens to many articles and takes time to fix itself. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 20:02, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sydney/City Centre