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Talk:Milan

Stazione centrale
Although I agree that the Stazione centrale is not a nice area to walk the night, You can't say there are just a few budget hotels... and the Gallia? the Michelangelo? same for eating : Il Gambero Rosso? (WT-en) Ub 02:22, 30 May 2006 (EDT)

Just a few budget hotels, thats far from the truth really. I find that most of the cheaper end of the hotels, are all the same no matter what the price. Even some of the "nice" looking hotels like Amadaus (for standard rooms etc). What is it with Italy and having really small crappy rooms/beds, but really big and nice bathrooms? :D And the poor lighting is another common one, oh and being harassed constantly by the hotel staff and cleaners etc. meh I could go on...

taxi
I have removed and changed the following lines
 * Taxis are pretty expensive and drivers are theoretically not allowed to catch walking customers, they should only pick up from taxi stands or by phone booking. Anyway they'll pick you up even if they can't.

Since the city regulation do allow taxi to pick up walking customer. (see article 26 of this pdf version of the regulation) (WT-en) AnyFile 08:44, 15 October 2006 (EDT)

FOr more information about the special telephon number 848.814.781. to call a taxi stand see this document from the municipality

Picture of Pirelli building
Why is this picture at the top of the article? That is such an ugly and modern building and considering Milan's status and history there are millions of better images which can be used. That kind of building is like something out of the USA and not a symbol of one of Europe's greatest cities. 213.230.129.22 08:49, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Pirelli Building is anything but ugly. The picture could be better and of course, there are mllions of better images which can be used. But all the photos are very bad: I think that they have been choosed by someone who don't want to show the beauty of Milan. (NV) —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 89.96.254.138 (talk • contribs)

 * Perhaps one of you might plunge forward and upload some better pictures of the city? ;)  --(WT-en) Peter Talk 22:37, 1 April 2010 (EDT)

Malpensa Shuttle
Is it just me or is this bus taking longer and longer to do it's trip? The article said 30minutes when quite etc, on weekends but recently, even in the dead of night, it usually takes 40 minimum, and easily an hour even without much traffic. There is only a little hold up in teh city outskirts anyway since the autostradle's are clear enough for a "slow" bus, and then the dedicated bus lanes etc... but still, its slower... No matter what I say to the conductor for this service, they always try and give me a single ticket instead of the return ticket I ask for; English, Italian, hand signs... nothing works first time.

People need to be careful now, since there is another malpensa service running and sits in the "malpensa express" queue by the station and the conductors try and pull in as many as possible. The bus looks a little crappy.

Hotels
I have been editing the hotel listings for errors and consistency. I have left the parts in the address that appear to be zip codes. I am not sure the relation to the address and how important they are for travelers... As is customary on wikivoyage I have removed the city and country names from the addresses. I would like to also remove these "zip codes" but I want to make sure somebody with local knowledge agrees that they are not necessary. (WT-en) Carson 18:29, 18 June 2008 (EDT)

Districtifying
Shouldn't Milan have some districts? Some sections, such as See and Sleep, have too much listings.--2.80.101.61 06:22, 6 September 2010 (EDT)
 * I agree, this this page is already over 100kb. (WT-en) –sumone10154 22:46, 9 April 2011 (EDT)

 * Against. I just think that there are too many options in Sleep/Splurge, not that they would merit districtification. Everything looks like they're within 10 minutes walking of each other. Shopping will be the largest section, because it's Milan, the fashion capital of the world.--(WT-en) rfilmyer 16:56, 1 May 2011 (EDT)

 * I think, districtification would be fine given the number of listings, any suggestions on how to do it?, --(WT-en) ClausHansen 17:07, 1 May 2011 (EDT)

 * Milan has nine administrative districts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boroughs_of_Milan . I think this could be (at least) a starting point... --Gebaale 17 January 2013

 * I would like to move on with the districtification. But is it not too many districts using the official nine?  Does anyone have an idea of how to merge some of the official districts ending up with say four or five districts?, --ClausHansen (talk) 07:45, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

 * It's not possible to merge Boroughs in any way. If you want to split Milan in 4, use the cardinal points (NSWE). I wouldn't even use the official 9 districts, since they are more a administrative division (invented and implemented in 1999) and nobody really knows about it. Another thing to take care is that in zone 1 there're 80% of touristic sights. --Luckyz (talk) 09:51, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

 * I've said it before and I say it again - administrative divisions of cities are made with the needs of the inhabitants in mind, not visitors, and while they are often useful as guidelines they are almost never practical to copy verbatim to our guides (for instance suburbs seldom have very much to offer to a visitor). The article is relatively long but I do not think there is enough material for nine different districts. Luckyz is very correct that most things of interest are within 20 minutes of walk from Duomo. Therefore I would propose a division into four districts following like this: Central Milan (Zone 1), Northern Milan (Zones 2, 3 and 9), Western Milan (Zones 7 and 8) and Southern Milan (Zones 4, 5 and 6). Ps. it's well over four years since this discussion was started so it would be nice if we could do something about it - at the very least decide whether a districtification is necessary or not? ϒpsilon (talk) 19:55, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

 * Do you really believe there is enough material to fill four different articles? How about starting with two (Centro Storico and "Outer districts and suburbs of Milan") and see how it pans out? We can always split the "outer districts" further if this article starts getting unwieldy. PrinceGloria (talk) 20:57, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

 * It would perhaps be useful to put the coordinates in all listings first to get an overview of all POIs. If we decide to split the city into just two articles, I think it would be better to create just a Centro Storico article and let the points of interest outside the city center remain here in Milan. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:28, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

 * So let's add all the latlongs and see, but I guess keeping non-central POIs in the main article would make it too confusing. If a city is districtified, all specific POIs should go to district articles (but perhaps the most important ones, like railway stations or airport, which could remain duplicated in the main article). PrinceGloria (talk) 21:53, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

 * OK, now everything (except the universities) has coordinates. I think there is enough information for e.g. four district articles. If we would split Milan into just Centro Storico and Outer Districts, some POIs in the latter would have nothing in common except that they are not in the city center, which would be odd. Especially as you would often need to go through the city center to travel from one POI to another. ϒpsilon (talk) 16:14, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

First off, I take off my hat and take a deep Japanese bow to you for completing this mammoth task. This is truly splendid and I admire your determination to complete this toil. As regards the district split though, on the one hand you base your estimation on the number of districts that Milan should be split into solely on the number of POIs, and then you reject this reasoning when discussing how to handle the POIs outside of Zone 1, of which there are a dozen or so, including our recommended places for gay folk to catch VD and worse. The main reason we do districtifying is to distribute POIs when there are too many of them. Sometimes huge cities with many clearly defined and geographically separated district are kept within a single article when there aren't too many POIs. Conversely, we often have cities where some very small, but POI-cpacked, areas have separate articles, while the entire belt of suburbs are bundled into one. I believe the latter would be the best solution for Milan - there is no point in dividing a dozen POIs into separate districts, while bundling remote suburbs with parts of the centre does not make much sense either (getting to any of the remote POIs has little to do with navigating any section of the centre). I do agree that given the number of POIs we may want to split the Zone 1 itself further indeed, but have no clear idea on how to do it in a reasonable way at this moment. PrinceGloria (talk) 21:22, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the compliment :)! It took a week and generated some interesting search history at one point... I didn't realize that Zona 1 was so damn large, I thought it was smaller. As Zona 1 comprises most of what there's to see and do, the rest of the articles would indeed contain very little of interest. Let's reject the official districts then, they aren't as prominently used as in Paris anyway. I made a hasty picture of what I meant earlier and will upload it right away. One central district with Duomo in the middle including everything inside the "inner ring road" (the light yellow streets), one with the POIs in the direction of the railway station (northeast), one with everything towards Sforzesco, the stadium and the fair centers (west) and then the rest (south). I think it would leave a fair share of See, Do, Eat, Drink and Sleep in every section. Then we can always create another article for things that are really far out, but I'm not sure if it is necessary. ϒpsilon (talk) 05:52, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * So, here's that map. I picked the borders a bit arbitrarily, the light yellow ring streets for the center, the tram tracks going straight north, the road to Linate airport straight to the east and Navigilio Grande to the southwest. What do you think? ϒpsilon (talk) 06:02, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

 * Thank you for taking the time to draw the picture, this makes your idea very clear. I could agree with having the article for the historic core cover a smaller area as your propose. The area extending from Milano Centrale through Repubblica does seem to possess a reasonably cohesive and separate character to me, I was thinking about it as a core for another district as well. As to the other two, anchoring one around the Castello Sforzesco and the old Fiera seems reasonable. I don't know much about the South of Milan, but the former two make dividing the outer districts in three reasonable.
 * We do need to give some thought to actual borders in due course though. For one, I believe that the border between South and West should better run along the railway tracks, where by definition no POIs are located, as we already have POIs on both sides of the Naviglio Grande and it would be a it confusing to have some of them in one district and some in the other. We could also consider having the border run along Via Solari, as there seem to be no POIs along it (if there indeed aren't any, not just that we haven't covered it yet.
 * I still do believe we could use a fifth district for the "faraway things", as any "Get in/around" information for the North, South and West articles that would be useful for the POIs close to the centre would be rather irrelevant for the POIs on the ouskirts, and such lone POIs would make maintaining a legible and reasonably-sized map for each of those three districts a challenge. Within the outer article, it is quite obvious every POI/cluster of POIs would need its separate transportation directions, but I guess we can manage that.
 * At any rate - GREAT job, great to see it progressing that fast. Let me know how I can help so that I don't start stepping on your toes and doing more damage than help. PrinceGloria (talk) 07:52, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Great that you liked it! I thought like this; "standing on Piazza Duomo, in what main directions could a tourist go?" and came up with Centrale FS, Sforzesco and Navigli.
 * So the border would continue along the railroad to northwest from Garibaldi? That sounds reasonable as it's visible and straight. For the southwest border I realized a few minutes after uploading the map that using the canal isn't such a good idea after all and had my eyes on Via Andrea Solari as well...
 * Looking at the map, it's actually not a bad idea to make an "Outer Milan" article. The question is where to put the border; would the red "ring road" maybe be a good solution?
 * So, what I plan to do is: 1. once the districts are defined I'll make mockup articles in my user space (for the districts and one copy of the current Milan article to remove them from), 2. move the POIs there and 3. eventually when everything is done move everything to the main space. It's not something that can be done in an hour, so if you feel like and especially if I'm not around, feel free to continue. And a map will be needed as well. ϒpsilon (talk) 08:57, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * BTW, we have an nearly empty Milan (province) article. Could that one maybe be re-used as a suburban article? Yes, some POIs outside the red ring are probably officially in Milan proper but... ϒpsilon (talk) 09:11, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Given how empty all provincial articles within Lombardy and the Lombardy article itself is, I would actually propose to merge all of them into Lombardy and give each province a short one-two sentence introduction before listing its destinations. That said, a common article for both outlying POIs within Milan and ones within the province but out of the city might make sense. PrinceGloria (talk) 10:12, 20 January 2014 (UTC)
 * So, now the listings for individual places are moved to the district articles and Saqib been kind and made a map. This is going forward really well. ϒpsilon (talk) 21:14, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Now that's seriously brilliant! I hope I can help by starting to give the districts some meaningful, and hopefully not entirely irrelevant, pointless and wrong leads. I also don't want to rain on what is a brilliant parade of initiative, dedication and collaboration, but I just hope the map is not wrong - we expressly do NOT cover the outlying parts of Milan city proper in the district articles (they are covered in "suburban Milan"), so we may want to overlay the coverage spans over the outline of Milan to give readers the idea where to find info on each particular area.
 * We also may want to include some of the more important points of orientation on the general map - Malpensa (I know it's actually beyond the province, but it would be worthwhile to highlight how small the province really is and where Malpensa is), Linate and Milano Centrale, old Fiera and Rho, as well as some of the cities in the Milan Province (don't really know which ones, as all of importance that come to my mind as Milan's suburbs, apart from Rho, turn out to be beyond the province's borders as well). Finally, I think it could be worthwhile to include the autostradas to help make the map even more useful.
 * It's easier said and done, I know, so please believe me I would have simply done that rather than sit and share wisecrack remarks if I believed I could. Let me get down to writing articles and I hope the above is of some value - and that you guys do feel how much I appreciate your brilliant work! PrinceGloria (talk) 21:50, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually Saqib made the map rather surprisingly last night (a positive surprise, of course :)), and I just had time to give him a few tips of what more I'd like to see on the map (that was railways, highways and Linate) and now he has added them. I think it looks quite OK and don't see any major errors in how he has drawn the districts other than the West district going perhaps a bit too far to the west (Saqib, if you open the dynamic map and choose the Mapnik (OSM) layer, the border we've chosen to the suburbs is the red ring road; we aren't using official districts). For points outside of Milan proper I think we should wait and see what's decided in the current discussion about maps and subdivision of Lombardy to avoid duplications and ambiguousness. I'm not sure either what suburbs should be marked on the map, matter of fact on many city district maps single suburbs aren't marked unless they have their own article. Malpensa Airport would likely be useful to include, though. ϒpsilon (talk) 07:03, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, I didn't understand Ypsi. You want me to change the boundaries of outer districts (South, West and North) or boundary of suburb district? If you're talking about the outer districts then it will decrease the size of those 3 outer districts very much but if you're talking of suburb district, then its a good idea as currently the suburb district on our map is actually the official province of Milan. --Saqib (talk) 11:48, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

 * It is the outer districts I'm talking about, like in my one-minute picture shows. I would strongly suggest not to depict the whole of Milan province in this map. How about showing just a portion of Suburban Milan (e.g. in the same way that [Gyeonggi which surrounds Seoul is depicted here])? ϒpsilon (talk) 12:37, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with you on the boundary of suburb district. Btw, I created boundaries of central and outer districts based on the official Milan zones but since you want to change the borders of outer districts. I think we need to create a new map and trace it using this map. --Saqib (talk) 12:53, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

(reindent) Yes, me and Prince discussed earlier in this thread where the borders should go. BTW compared to the Seoul example above, the Suburb area of the map should be colored. ϒpsilon (talk) 13:01, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Just two BTWs, if I may butt in:
 * Not that it matters much, but I would not call the outer district "Suburban", but rather "Outer Milan". Quite a bit of it is just as urban as the rest of Milan (this is a huge city after all), it's just that what is there is farther away from the centre. I would advocate for "Outer Milan" or "Outer districts of Milan" or something in the mold of that
 * We may want to leave out the entire province (pending a separate discussion @ Talk:Lombardy, but I would really be for including Malpensa in a to-scale way in order to portray where it actually is. I recently spent 3 hours on the road getting to Malpensa, and I have to conclude that truly appreciating the distance (and traffic jams) can be of essence to travellers who will with high probability be using this airport.
 * Yours truly, PrinceGloria (talk) 14:27, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
 * PS. I hate to be nitpicky, but isn't the A50 (the autostrada encircling Milan from the west) missing from the map as it is?

No need to rush with the map

 * OK, so there are a couple of things that we need to change on the map; so here's a handy list:
 * Centro Storico - Here we discussed changing the name of Central Milan to Centro Storico (Italian for "Historical Center" or Old town)
 * South and West - at the same talk page Prince proposed to merge South and West if they turn out to be too short. I would prefer to try to expand them first, for instance with material from the Italian version, but for my part that will have to wait until the weekend. The Italian version does have a ton of suggestions (with tens of links to an external guide! :O that however has a helpful Google Map embedded to show where the sights are), and I think I can squeeze out a couple of notable and interesting sights and activities to expand those articles to a decent size.
 * Rename Suburban Milan to Outer Milan per above ("Outer districts of Milan" is a bit too much, I'd say)
 * North will get a new name which first needs to be decided upon.
 * Range of the map? The draft I made on Jan 22 are based from a screenshot of the dynamic map at zoom level 13, and motorway A50 does not show up except for a few sections. One has to zoom up to level 11 to get it completely visible.
 * How should we show Milan's international airport Malpensa Airport on the map? I would suggest an airport icon, name of the airport, arrow and distance (40km) beside the road in the northwestern direction.
 * So, there's no need to rush with the map. ϒpsilon (talk) 13:34, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

 * I've now expanded the South and West articles. For the North article, how would "Porta Garibaldi and Venezia" sound (referring to Porta Venezia in the northeast that also gives name to a district), PrinceGloria? Or "Centrale, Porta Garibaldi and Venezia"? Or in correct Italian "Centrale, Porte Garibaldi and Venezia"? Or..? And what's your opinion about the zoom level of the map? I think zoom level 13 used in the screenshot above is OK and if a wider screenshot is used, more of A50 becomes visible.
 * Except the map there isn't IMO much left that has to be done before we can complete the districtification i.e. move the districts to the mainspace. ϒpsilon (talk) 13:43, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Well done YPSI. The article is definitely very much improved after the districtification. BTW, do you think the Milan is at guide status now? Let me know whether you'll do the map or I? --Saqib (talk) 15:29, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Saqib :). Milan might be at guide status but I'm not 100% sure. I could actually try to make the map (to get a little practice). ϒpsilon (talk) 15:44, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I am not quite sure about that long a name, but this may have something to do with this being one of a series of long days for me. Which may also explain why I am not getting what you mean about zoom level 13, i.e. what do you want to use this zoom level for. At any rate, great job! PrinceGloria (talk) 18:15, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Grazie, Principe! I'm going to use a screenshot from the dynamic map as a base for the map. In the dynamic map the number in the upper left corner indicates the zoom/magnification level (1=the whole world visible, 18=e.g. Duomo fills the whole screen) and how the screenshot looks depends on it. I'll try to make the A50 visible, or at least a part of it.
 * For the name: how about "Garibaldi(-Centrale?)-Venezia" (without Porta). Because shouldn't we somehow indicate that the area around Corso Buenos Aires all the way to the road to Linate are included the article as well? Another thing how about changing the name of West to e.g. "Fiera-Cardona" and South to e.g. "Navigli-Porta Romana"? ϒpsilon (talk) 18:50, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I have a day of terrible indecisiveness, so I started thinking whether 1) we really need to include the area that does not strictly fall into the "Centro Direzionale"/skyscraper area in that district and 2) whether we really need tho force names upon those districts, perhaps "Northern Centre" would do. I guess it's better for somebody else (perhaps Italian? Andyrom75 is Italian I believe) should make the call. PrinceGloria (talk) 19:04, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Andy couldn't help, and somewhere I asked Lkcl it about it (could swear it was in the Lombardy map discussion but it wasn't) but he didn't reply. So let's keep North(ern Centre), West and South, then. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:21, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm from Brescia, so I am not a very expert on Milano, but I'll try to help you. What do you exactly need? thanks --Lkcl it (talk) 19:58, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, the situation is this: we've already divided Milano into districts like this (you can have a look at the map draft above): 1. Centro Storico (everything within about 1.5-2 km from Duomo), 2. North (Porta Garibaldi, Centrale FS, and the around Corso Buenos Aires), 3. West (Parco Sempione, the old Fiera), 4. South (Navigli, Porta Romana) and 5. Outer Milan (everything outside the yellow "ring road" of streets on the map). We "tourists" think this division sounds reasonable, but is there anything that you find completely weird wrong? (hopefully there's not :P) ϒpsilon (talk) 20:10, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I have already seen Saqib's map and I think that your division is ok. --Lkcl it (talk) 20:14, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * That's great! Grazie! ϒpsilon (talk) 20:17, 27 January 2014 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. (P.s. you asked me Here) --Lkcl it (talk) 20:19, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Ciao Lkcl, grazie mille for chipping in! I guess what I meant when I asked for somebody Italian (and it's great to hear you're from Lombardy!) to weight in is to determine the names - I do believe the division makes sense for Wikivoyage, but I would like to give the districts more meaningful names, especially that "North", "South" and "West" can be misleading now that we have decided to keep the extremities of Milan in a separate "Outer Milan" article. So, in short, can you help us decide on good names for the "South", "West" and "North" districts? PrinceGloria (talk) 06:04, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
 * The map is soon finished (in 2.5 hours! I'm starting to get the routine of map making now). So what should we name the districts? I'm absolutely fine with North, South and West.
 * Porta Garibaldi-Venezia, Fiera-Cardona and Navigli-Porta Romana, are they really that bad? I mean, they're all both names of landmarks and districts around those landmarks.
 * Or if we would revert the name of the outer district to "Suburban"and still use N, S and W for those three city districts..? ϒpsilon (talk) 17:17, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm looking forward to see your map YPSI. I'll say best wishes to you and I'm glad we got another cartographer on-wiki. If I'm not wrong, I think Southern or Northern is usually used as unofficial names than South or North. --Saqib (talk) 17:20, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
 * So, I made the map yesterday and uploaded it. Had some problems with getting the railways to look as they do e.g. in the map of Munich, and when I now look at them they look like black polkagris or worse, even though I followed the advice here. Saqib, do you have a couple of minutes..?
 * Anyways, I plan to move Milan and it's districts to the main namespace tomorrow. ϒpsilon (talk) 19:38, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Well done YPSI. The map is detailed. Sure, please upload the SVG version and I'll do it. Btw, frankly speaking I don't like the orange colour of outer district. --Saqib (talk) 19:51, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Looking forward to using this. As of yesterday, Milan has joined the list of places I am going in July. Texugo (talk) 19:52, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Happy travelling Texugo. YPSI, one concern. Are you going to move and replace the Milan article as well? I think moving the Milan in your user namespace can be controversial since because of the WT attribution in the footer.
 * Actually I uploaded the svg version yesterday, but didn't add the link from the .png to the .svg - now that's fixed. For the orange outer district; first I experimented with darker colors and then the smaller roads weren't visible. I admit, such a big orange area makes one think that the city is in the middle of a desert or something. You can change it as well if you feel like.
 * I'm not going to move the whole page, just empty the current Milan article of content and replace it with my version. I did that with Helsinki too and the footer with the attribution is still there.
 * Enjoy your trip, Texugo. ϒpsilon (talk) 20:08, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅. --Saqib (talk) 20:11, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks, now it looks much better. Yesterday I also tried to use turquoise for the outer districts but for some reason the small grey roads disappeared into the background... ϒpsilon (talk) 20:23, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Let me be the lazy bum spoilsport here, and after I offer my most sincere and heartfelt thanks and congratulations to you, Ypsilon, I feel I need to share with you some comments I have about the map you created: I do realize that some of the above may go against the general mapmaking standards within Wikivoyage, but I guess by examining this particular map, I have found them to be actually ineffective. If a map for Milan is eventually created using alternative principles, it could be then used as an exemplar for updating the general standards. Again, pardon my armchair activism here - I indeed find my remarks above of value and indeed cannot even get a start at mapmaking at this very moment. PrinceGloria (talk) 20:40, 29 January 2014 (UTC) PS. Texugo, if this is your first time in the north of Italy, do make sure to visit someplace else besides Milan, like Bergamo, Bologna or Verona, to get a better impression of Italy. With all due respect to Milan, it may not be the most charming place in Italy.
 * 1) Orange is indeed a bit too aggressive for me. I guess light green would have worked better on so large an area. Since the gray roads aren't named (not that there is place for it in that map), highlighting them is of little assistance to travellers, I believe, so if they get in the way of less aggressive colouring, I'd go for less aggressive colours and no gray roads.
 * 2) Now I know what you meant about the zoom level. I am not so sure we need level 13 here, perhaps we may be better off with a slightly lower zoom level to show how much of Milan is really in the central districts we highlight. At that zoom level, the vestigial parts of autostradas are only confusing rather than helpful in my views.
 * 3) If we want to give a better idea of where in the centre of Milan the district borders are, we may want to add a smaller lower-zoom-level map to show the entirety of Milan. If we stick to the horizontal map format you chose, splitting it in two may allow to do them side-by-side.
 * 4) I am quite convinced "Cadorna" is spelt like that, not "Cardona". Since you spell it consistently the latter way, it may be that I am indeed wrong, so perhaps you could double-check as well.
 * 5) I am not sure we need to call each railway station a "station" in the map, it is quite obvious by the railway symbol what they are. We might however want to use "Milano Centrale", as this will probably be encountered by travellers much more often than "Central Railway Station". I would also support making the descriptions larger (perhaps easier to do when we make them shorter by cutting off "station"), and they may prove more legible if rendered in black and without the bold type in this particular font
 * 6) Same goes for district names - they seem very small and hard to read. I would make them more prominent. If we leave out the gray roads or make them fade into background more, it could be easier to accomplish.
 * 7) The blue Navigli seems very intrusive to me given the overall pastel shading of the map and appears to be something else, as I wouldn't expect a body of water to be so prominently highlighted when everything else is subdued.
 * 8) I would also support marking the location of:
 * 9) Duomo
 * 10) Fieramilanocity (old Fiera)
 * 11) New Fiera (if we include the "lower zoom level" map)
 * Thanks again, Prince :). Saqib already changed the color of Outer Milan. And yeah, the map is a result of following the map making advice, template and color palette to the letter . Including the deep blue for water bodies. Finally the station's name is Cadorna now when I checked it from Wikipedia so you're absolutely right. I've always remembered it with the r in the wrong place.
 * Sure, we can include the places you mentioned. And make the map a square as it is in my drafts above; I included the motorways because you suggested it but I'm happy to narrow the map.
 * BTW I'm not able to draw perfect looking maps (yet). It's my third city district map and other than that I've made a couple of easy to make islands maps. If you want to make maps you need a ton of nerves and need to know that your first map will take a full week if you've never drawn vector graphics before (that was my experience with Helsinki last summer). ϒpsilon (talk) 21:36, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
 * All right, now it's time to publish the districtified Milan. BTW I've also updated the map. ϒpsilon (talk) 17:52, 30 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Well done and keep it up YPSI. You've done a great job and I appreciate your efforts you recently putting in improving article. I think one more award is going to decorate your talk page soon. --Saqib (talk) 12:28, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, Saqib! You're also doing a splendid job here on WV — especially with destinations in Pakistan. ϒpsilon (talk) 12:33, 1 February 2014 (UTC)

Restaurants
Seems like only very high-end restaurants are mentioned. Someone should probably go ahead and separate them into different categories according to price range. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 93.50.3.80 (talk • contribs)

Interlingual lounge: First proposal Milan Expo 2015 as joint Dotm
Mates, i started the discussion on meta https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikivoyage/Lounge#multi lingual display for Destination of the month to see if there is interest in an interlingual DotM. The first proposal from the Italian community is Milan for the Expo 2015 (May-Oct). PrinceGloria proposal in Lisbon. Any feedback on that? jan (talk) 12:38, 19 June 2014 (UTC)

 * Sounds good to me in general, but for our purposes Expo 2015 would probably fit better as an FTT. See Previous Featured travel topics where it's said that Expo 2005 would have been FTT if the feature had existed at the time. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 12:51, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * If Spanish community is interested. Mexico City during Wikimania 2015. --Saqib (talk) 13:50, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Saqib, I think Mexico City has the potential to be an excellent interlingual collaboration, and being fluent in Spanish, I could serve as liaison. But I do have some doubts. I don't poke my head into es: very often, and I may very well be wrong about this, but at last check it was pretty much a ghost town over there. Can we speak meaningfully of "collaborating" with a community of one or two active contributors - especially when it's an open question whether Zerabat or B1mbo are willing to act as liaisons to en: or have the on-the-ground knowledge of Mexico City that would be necessary to improve es:'s article? -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 21:35, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I swear I posted this last night. Anyway, I was going to say the same thing of pt: with regard to the suggestion of Lisbon, since pt: is basically, well, me. Plus an occasional useful edit by an IP address or one-time user once every few days. And I've never been to Lisbon so I'm afraid I wouldn't be much help. Texugo (talk) 12:05, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

André i see your point with FTT but i assume that on Italian wv they will feature the city and the expo because it seems to be important for Italy. Maybe we can use their local knowledge and run the city as Dotm and the expo as FTT. Just an idea as the whole expo runs about six months. jan (talk) 12:45, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Milan is certainly a worthwhile destination for travellers. I would not be opposed to a scenario such as you describe. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 12:46, 20 June 2014 (UTC)
 * André, the German wv admin User:Balou46 indicated interest in collaborating for Milan. So far no other proposals. I think the Italian wv community is likely to take the lead on the expo and maybe i would take the lead on Milan. I keep en updated on the discussion and feel free to particicpate on meta if you want, too. jan (talk) 12:12, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Right now, the Milan guide is Usable in en.wikivoyage. Until it's a Guide, it is ineligible for a DotM nomination under this site's rules. Ikan Kekek (talk) 12:18, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Ikan thank you for your posts in both pubs. The main obstacle for Milan are the suburbs, the central districts can be easily turned in strong usables or guides. I can read some french and italian but i'm far from conversational, so users like User:Andyrom75 would be needed to translate. It's a year, so about four months before nomination. I assume it could work out if we collaborate. Therefore your comment on cotm is a good idea. jan (talk) 15:40, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * My Italian is not bad and neither is my French. I have yet to look at either version's Milan article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:13, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

To Guide
Hi, everyone. You can see the discussion about the possible inter-lingual feature of Milan above, but it has to be a Guide to be eligible for nomination for Destination of the Month. More discussion about the article at my user talk page. How are things progressing, and what do you all feel are the top priorities in improving all the Milan district guides to at least Usable status and this article to Guide status (keeping in mind that all district guides have to be at least Usable for this article to be a Guide)? Shall we set a target of bringing this up to Guide status by December? Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:43, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm very busy: I have also to add information to the Italian article, but I'll help also here. -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 17:06, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

 * If I may, I would like to propose a table where we can list and update statuses of all the aspects important to bring the district article to a reasonable state (more than just usable or guide, something we do not have to be ashamed of to flaunt in pre-Expo season). Below are aspects I find important. PrinceGloria (talk) 19:17, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

 * [Edit conflict]We're all volunteers here, so any help is always appreciated, and this is not just about you. Bringing this article up to Guide status can be expected to require more than one person's efforts. Thanks for your help,  Lkcl it  and PrinceGloria. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:21, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Car sharing, is it useless?
As far as i know, to rent a car-sharing car you have to own an italian driving license.

I don't know if the car-sharing information can be of some use to most of the visiting people, since they cannot subscribe to the service. —The preceding comment was added by Gerryino (talk • contribs)

 * It should be an easy thing to establish on the website of the car sharing company.
 * 'As far as I know', EU licenses are valid throughout the EU.
 * I carshare in Australia, and any valid license is fine. --Andrewssi2 (talk) 05:31, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes a EU driving license is valid throughout the EU provide you are not resident in another country than where it was registered for more than a year. --Traveler100 (talk) 05:44, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * In most countries I know of, the problem is not the driving license, as per the above, but rather the requirement of having a bank account with regular inflows and/or a credit card registered in a given country. Which is a problem for most tourists. PrinceGloria (talk) 08:20, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't know how this works, so my question would be: Let's say you are from France or Germany, so a fellow Euro Zone country. Would that requirement be any problem, just because you are from a foreign country? If not, it's not necessarily useless to all foreign tourists. Ikan Kekek (talk) 08:55, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Again, it would - Italian car-sharing companies cannot easily charge your German or Dutch account, Eurozone notwithstanding. They need an account or credit card with a bank in their own country, and you usually have to present a bank statement to prove you have regular inflows to that account that would cover eventual fees. PrinceGloria (talk) 11:12, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Think need to check the conditions of the sites but Car2Go is a German company with outlets in other cities, such as Milan. Also new IBAN rules in Europe make cross boarder payments much easier. I have a EC bank charge card (VPay) that I have used in a number of countries with no cross boarder issues or changes. Having said that need to check the companies fine print to check on residency restrictions, that has got me with a few transactions. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:02, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Looking at the Car2Go site, if you register in Germany you need a valid driving license (i.e. legal to drive in Germany) and you can use the service anywhere in Europe. However it looks like you need to have a German bank account if you register in Germany. So much for EU cross boarder commerce. --Traveler100 (talk) 12:24, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

 * So it may be a requirement to register with an Italian bank account. I doubt it would be legal however to deny another valid EU Driving license as the original thread statement suggested. Andrewssi2 (talk) 19:55, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually it is about registering with an international car sharing company in a county you have a bank account and probably residency, then being able to take a car in another country. Interesting point on legality in EU about insisting on licence from specific country but when I have questions companies on such things in the past have not got far (but then never though worth getting lawyers involved. --Traveler100 (talk) 20:08, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I believe Car2Go is the only company so far that offers members access to services in all cities they serve, regardless of where they originally registered (and are billed). PrinceGloria (talk) 20:25, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Let us not let go!
The idea to feature Milan this month for the opening of the Expo fell through, but this does not mean we should not sustain the effort to improve the article(s). In September, Milan will host not only the Expo, but also the usual Fashion Week. Despite the anxiety about staggering European DoTMs, we now have (tentatively) Łódź for August and Manchester for September. Knowing Łódź I can attest that the article is far from ready to be featured, and being the "Polish Manchester" I do find it easy to argue why they shouldn't be featured back-to-back.

So, if we can improve our guides to Milan further, I see a chance for swapping places with Manchester and being featured in September. Do we go for it? PrinceGloria (talk) 05:26, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Understand section
I am not sure I like the numerous comparisons with Rome and other cities (it also includes the laughable indirect statement that Venice is typical of anything - Venice is Venice and its sui generis nature is the point why people go there). On a totally unrelated note, that section (and parts of get in and get around) are also where we have the most "copied" content... Hobbitschuster (talk) 16:30, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Page banner

To the right is a selection of possible page banners. Both are far from really nice. Maybe someone finds a better one. --Renek78 (talk) 19:07, 28 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Added a third and fourth one. Banner 4 is my favourite and I would propose to use it as a page banner. --Renek78 (talk) 13:49, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't like #3 but I really like #4. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 14:16, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
 * #2 feels a little off-balance and the building in the current doesn't fit the banner ratio of 7:1. So yes, my favorite is #4. --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 14:17, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Number 2 is best to my eyes. If I have to go to a 2nd choice, it would be #4. #3 is so distorted in orientation that it makes me reel. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:53, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Number 5 is a good addition, and I prefer it to #4. I can't pick between #2 and #5. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:04, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Ikan Kekek and Selfie City, I plunged forward and changed the page banner to banner 5. If you think that this was too early please revert the edit. Thanks, --Renek78 (talk) 07:47, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm late to the discussion, but I like 5. Thanks Renek78. Ground Zero (talk) 08:09, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * No dispute from me, as I was in favor of either #2 or #5. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:16, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Routeboxes
Should this article have routeboxes? Hobbitschuster (talk) 15:36, 2 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I have to say I'm not a fan of routeboxes, but feel free to add them if you like. --ϒpsilon (talk) 17:57, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Why not? And I can't because I don't know the routes going through here nor how routeboxes should look for Italy... Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:43, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * They just give out a limited amount of information and it's hard to know what cities to put there (one or two nearby places and then the end of the road which might be very far away or some major city halfway, and the same in the other direction). To get a better oversight travelers are better off using a map instead, for instance our dynamic maps. That's at least what I would do.
 * Routeboxes are also pretty well hidden on the page, for instance when I read the question of yours I seriously thought for a second "what's a route box? - oh yeah, that little stuff at the end of the page that a few articles have, aren't they still experimental, or did they get approved?". Though now when I know to look for them, I notice that they are more widespread than I remembered.
 * Also, while roads and their numbers are fairly stable, and can be easily checked up from a map, train services need to be harvested from schedules and are prone to change. Given that the routeboxes aren't that noticable, if the train services change and someone updates the Get in section accordingly, they might not be aware that there is a routebox with train lines that needs to be updated too.
 * That said, apparently some people find routeboxes useful and they do give the end of the page some color, which can be a good reason to add them. Just copy paste the code from some city article that has a routebox, look at a map and replace the cities and the road numbers for instance with the ones found here. Or I can do it at some point. ϒpsilon (talk) 09:49, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I have added routeboxes with motorways. -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 20:31, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you. We now need another routebox for Frecciarossa and/or Italo services. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:41, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The problem is that they don't have a logo for each line: FrecciaRossa and Italo may mean everithing: Brescia-Napoli, Venice-Salerno, Torin-Salerno... -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 20:47, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Have a look at Limburg an der Lahn for how I solved the problem with the broadly analogous ICE. Hobbitschuster (talk) 20:52, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Due to copyright problems on commons there aren't frecciarossa and italo logos (or at least I wasn't able to find them). I suggest to use Logomi r.svg for regional lines (i.e. operated by trenord: RE1 Laveno-Varese-Saronno-Milan RE2 Bergamo-Milan RE4 Domodossola-Milan RE5 Varese-Milano RE6 Verona-Brescia-Milan ... ) in total 10 Regional Express lines and Logo Trenitalia.png for frecciarossa Turin-Milan-Venice-Trieste Milan-Bari and Turin-Milan-Florence-Rome-Naples-Salerno. Or is better to add only frecciarossa services? -- Lkcl it  (Talk) 12:33, 26 August 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:47, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Stazione Garibaldi di Milano, veduta generale.jpg

 * No FoP in Italy; do we want this? SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 11:56, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Milan


text:
Talk:Milford (New Hampshire)

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

One or more Milfords
How many Milfords are there in New Hampshire? The article says it is a city and a town, but that is open to interpretation because City could mean Town and vice versa. Wikivoyage says it is in Merimack county. Wikipedia only says there is a town and it is in Hillsborough county. What is correct? - (WT-en) Huttite 07:15, 25 February 2009 (EST)

 * I think the confusion over the county has to do with our regions breakdown for the state: Merrimack Valley & Merrimack County are not one and the same—the former is larger and includes Hillsborough Co. (I believe). And the population is only ~13,000; in New England that's a town, not a city. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 08:03, 25 February 2009 (EST)

 * I rather thought that was the case. However, the article is inconsistent and suggests there is another deeper region level to be developed and fleshed out below the county level too. I will drop the city reference and leave the rest, to give someone the opportunity to fill in the gaps. - (WT-en) Huttite 08:45, 25 February 2009 (EST)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Milford (New Hampshire)


text:
Talk:Milford (Ohio)

I actually live in Miami Township, which is can be blended in with Milford, however, should Miami Township have it's own article? Miami Township is several times larger than Milford and has many more thousands of residents, an educated guess would make me believe that Miami Township has approximately 60,000 while Milford only has 7,000 - (WT-en) Sapphire 17:21, 7 May 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Milford (Ohio)


text:
Talk:Milford (Texas)

Copyvio
Current text is a copyright violation from http://texasescapes.com/CentralTexasTownsNorth/MilfordTexas.htm. -- (WT-en) Wrh2 14:31, 1 Sep 2005 (EDT)

 * Copyvio text removed, small city article template added. -- (WT-en) Wrh2 15:33, 1 Sep 2005 (EDT)

title: Talk:Milford (Texas)


text:
Talk:Mill Valley

Jeez! You start a page to make an abstruse point about localizing attraction listings, and within half an hour it's a full-fledged travel guide! B-) Gotta love wiki. --(WT-en) Evan 19:53, 8 Oct 2004 (EDT)

Link #4 relating to Muir Woods - advertising site
the link provided for Muir Woods points here: http://muir-woods-national-monument.blogspot.com/

A blog with some useful information, but many links pointing to expensive tours at trustedtours.com

We should have that link point to: http://www.nps.gov/muwo/index.htm

which provides much more information, and no advertising

=sam

edit: went ahead and changed it. seems straightforward.

—The preceding comment was added by 99.48.45.110 (talk • contribs)

 * Yes, thank you for making the change. (WT-en) LtPowers 13:59, 24 February 2012 (EST)

title: Talk:Mill Valley


text:
Talk:Milos

Uggh! I started an article and wrote a lot about Milos, since I went there. I wrote evrything I knew, and I know a lot. I was almost done and I went to the bathroom, while my sister was on the computer and closed the window b/c she thought I was done using the computer. Sorry peoplr. You would've had a good article with a lot of infformation on Milos.

Photos of Milos
How can you insert a picture? I tried but I failed. Get one of these please: http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/03/f4/39/milos-island-greece.jpg (Firopotamos Beach) http://www.milos-island.gr/beaches/west-hivadolimni-beach.html                    (Hivadolimni Beach) http://www.milos-island.gr/beaches/sarakiniko-beach.html                          (Sarakiniko Beach)

 * Thanks for your work on the Milos page. To to use the talk page effectively, though, it's better to get a Wikivoyage account and sign and date your comments.  Image for Wikivoyage must first be put on Wikivoyage Shared.  There is documentation there on how to do it.  You might also find it helpful to look at the recent discussion of images on | the Pub.  (WT-en) Sailsetter 11:37, 30 November 2008 (EST)

Definition of "lucky"
"There are also many English, French, and Italian speakers. If you're lucky, you may even find a few Spanish or German speakers."

I wouldn't exactly feel lucky, since these languages are the languages of the TOURISTS! So the more languages you find on this island, the more UNLUCKY you are!!

title: Talk:Milos


text:
Talk:Milton (disambiguation)

Help! We have Milton (disambiguation) and Milton
OK, so I just set up Milton for disambiguation and then when I went to the list I found this one listed. Milton (Florida) was previously Milton and I moved it. I don't think it meets the "Most famous" litmus test. Suggest making Milton the disambiguating page and doing (whatever) with this one. (WT-en) OldPine 11:06, 14 July 2006 (EDT)
 * If the Milton page covers everything this page does and more, then you can just redirect this page to the Milton page. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 11:14, 14 July 2006 (EDT)
 * From what I see there is a mismatch between the English Miltons on the two pages. — (WT-en) Ravikiran 11:21, 14 July 2006 (EDT)

 * The UK entries on the Milton (disambiguation) page were for places whose full names weren't actually "Milton", so I've just turned this page into a redirect to Milton. -- (WT-en) Ryan 14:31, 14 July 2006 (EDT)

title: Talk:Milton (disambiguation)


text:
Talk:Milton (Florida)

If you have anyother information conserning the City of Milton, please fell free to post.

Disambiguation
This article needs moving from Milton to Milton_(Florida) in order to make way for a disambiguation page.

title: Talk:Milton (Florida)


text:
Talk:Milwaukee

Updates To Stay Safe Section
I've updated the stay safe section to a more "paragraph & bullets" layout.

Specifically:
 * I added a description of the Fifth Ward - Feel free to add more.
 * I've provided more accurate boundaries for the north-west side. The worst neighboorhood stretches not from North to Center & 11th to 25th, but rather from North to Capitol (just before the Greefield border), and MLK to Sherman Ave (out by Washington High School). People mistakingly drive through these neighborhoods (or just as far as the edge of Riverwest) and observe well-kept homes (originally housing polish and german communities) or buisnessesand get the mistaken impression that the neigbordhoods are more hospitable than they are - They are not. Simply taking a detour off the main roads will show you that.
 * You are completely full of it. I've lived between MLK and Sherman most of my life and have never had any problems.  On top of which, (get ready for this...) I'm white.  It's because of idiots like you that Milwaukee has its (undeserved) negative reputation.  Worst of all, you probably don't even live in Milwaukee.  You probably live in Brookfield (or whatever the suburb-of-the-moment is now) and just tell everyone you're from Milwaukee.  Either way, don't drag the good name of the people in my community through the dirt because of your irrational fear of them.--70.92.77.127 08:41, 13 July 2007 (EDT)

 * I've also removed the note that said "As a general rule, if there are people out and around you shouldn't have problems". Anyone who lives or works on the north west-side can tell you that this area is dangerous regardless of the time or day. You situation depends more on where you walk into and less about what time of day it is. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 24.209.191.159 (talk • contribs) 18:55, 11 March 2007

Other
according to wikipedia, milwaukee is the 23rd largest city in the u.s. —The preceding comment was added by (WT-en) 65.31.139.44 (talk • contribs) 18:02, 5 July 2006

By plane
Wow, whomever wrote this article hasn't gotten out much. "Like many European cities, Milwaukee's airport is connected by rail." Um, no, not like European cities. In European cities you can walk off of your plane and into the train station (where a train will be by every 5 to 15 minutes). Here, you have to find a shuttle bus, wait, get to the platform, oh, and then wait for one of 7 daily runs. Not in anyway convenient or reliable. In fact, I can't imagine anyone uses the Amtrak station at the airport to go from the airport to downtown. More like, they use it to go to and from Chicago without having to drive downtown to board. If someone relied on your statements they'd be very confused and very inconvenienced. Nothing like a European city.

Also, why do you mention that every restaurant, or wine choice, is expensive? No offense, but you sound like a hick.

 * Now, abuse isn't useful. Please do plunge forward and improve the article yourself. Ack, I can't resist: as the subject of the sentence, it's "whoever," not "whomever." --(WT-en) Peter Talk 17:10, 2 July 2008 (EDT)

Hoping to remove it from "work on" list
Worked on pretty much all sections. 3 things to help the article: district explanation in Understand, map, and more pics! Good luck, Milwaukee!(WT-en) Zepppep 14:52, 1 December 2009 (EST)

 * Yes, the article no longer appears on Category:Articles needing attention! (WT-en) Zepppep 14:54, 1 December 2009 (EST)

Bus Table / Formatting
The bus table isn't a problem on this page. Despite the wikivoyage policy fear of html due to it being unmanageable this table has been kept up to date. Why remove it? Moreover other formating + sections need work. (WT-en) --Cire 10:45, 24 March 2011 (EDT)
 * It has nothing to do with fear of HTML and everything to do with why the details of bus travel among these three cities is important enough to get its own big table. (WT-en) LtPowers 21:12, 24 March 2011 (EDT)
 * Because its a lot of information--due to many different services, otherwise there is no overview. The number of buses (about 1000 seats between Milwaukee and Chicago each way every day) proves it an important and common form of transportation. Unlike air travel there are no other resources to look up this information. These are the only nearby major cities (hence it making more sense in the case of Chicago). --(WT-en) Cire 14:51, 31 March 2011 (EDT)
 * Of course it's common and important, but all the information in the table can be (and mostly is) explained in the individual bus company listings directly above. We don't need to present the same data twice.  (WT-en) LtPowers 08:25, 1 April 2011 (EDT)

Suggestions for changing unattractive page banner
I'm not a fan of the current page banner. Page banners are the first thing you see and should inspire viewers to read further. If you didn't know the history behind it, the building in the current banner just looks like it is run down/abandoned and might give the wrong impression. I just feel that there are far better pictures in the commons that could be turned into more welcoming/attractive page banners. Ideally, I'd have liked to get a good image of Miller Park or the MAM, since they are such iconic landmarks, but I couldn't find anything that was big enough (pixel wise) on the commons to crop into a banner. Unless there's strong feedback on why the Pabst Brewery should remain the page banner, I'm going to change it to one of the three images I've posted here.

I've just created and added banners before with out consulting, but never for an article that already had a banner. I don't want to presume that my addition would be welcome, even if I am a native of the surrounding region. DethDestroyerOfWords (talk) 20:17, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

 * I've got no issue with changing the banner, although the aspect ratio on the new banner should be kept at 7:1 - some of the proposed banners seem to be using different ratios. See also WV:Banners. -- Ryan • (talk) • 20:52, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I would definitely being cropping which ever image was chosen to fit the aspect ratio (7:1, right?). I just threw the original images up here to give an idea of what could replace it. DethDestroyerOfWords (talk) 21:00, 10 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I admit I'm not a fan of relatively generic skyline photos for pagebanners. At least the Pabst sign is distinctive, though I agree it's not all that attractive. Powers (talk) 02:37, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree the skyline is rather generic. I'd prefer if there was a good picture of the Milwaukee Art Museum or the Miller Stadium, since they are unique landmarks. If the weather was nicer/leaves were out, I'd use taking a few pictures as an excuse to head up there this weekend. I'll look a bit more on wikicommons and see if I can find something less generic. I appreciate the input. DethDestroyerOfWords (talk) 20:41, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Milwaukee


text:
Talk:Milwaukee(Wisconsin)

Shouldn't this be a redirect to Milwaukee or am missing something?

 * Yes, it probably should. Looks like the Wisconsin page was unnecessarily disambiguated. - (WT-en) Huttite 07:12, 9 Apr 2005 (EDT)

title: Talk:Milwaukee(Wisconsin)


text:
Talk:Minami machida

''This page is for discussing the corresponding article or guide. For more about using talk pages check out Project:Using talk pages.''

Comments
This page does not constitute an article because it says it is about a railway station. The information should go in Machida, unless there is enough content create city districts, which should be discussed first. If this page were to be a district, the title would have the format Machida/Minami Machida or perhaps Machida/South Machida, not Minami machida. - (WT-en) Huttite 04:28, 8 December 2009 (EST)

title: Talk:Minami machida


text:
Talk:Minami-Uonuma

Less festival
The long description of the festival is not needed here. Shorter would be better. --(WT-en) Orcrist 02:39, 19 April 2011 (EDT)

title: Talk:Minami-Uonuma


text:
Talk:Minas Gerais

Regions
I'd just like to state my intention to revise the region scheme for Minas Gerais. As a basis, I intend to use the 10 regions the MG government designates for planning purposes, laid out with spiffy maps on the Portuguese Wikipedia. Almost all the articles for this state are in pretty bad shape or not existent at all (no article for Uberaba yet??). I intend to remedy that, but first I'd really like to have clearly defined sub-regions in place.(WT-en) Texugo 12:23, 22 March 2010 (EDT)
 * Almost exactly 3 years later and we still haven't got a Wikivoyage-style map together for these. I'm going to be doing some work on this state... Texugo (talk) 02:35, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Regions - Take 2
OK. Here is what I propose, combining a little further from the above to get down to 9 regions:

I would like to implement this soon so I can further clean up and expand the destinations in this state. It is mostly already implemented anyway. Any comments? Texugo (talk) 20:45, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * If it doesn't clutter the map too much, it would be nice to have the rivers, highways, national parks and a few more cities. I suggest adding Araxá, São Roque de Minas, Paracatu, Poços de Caldas and maybe Mariana. 200.252.135.74 21:00, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input. Yes, I hope to find time to add those things on the map too. Just made a relatively simple map for now since I'm currently more concentrated on organizing the states, but there is an editable .svg of this on commons now, so either I can do it sometime down the road, or you or anyone else who knows how can feel free to do it. Texugo (talk) 21:06, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Also, the South region is the only one which doesn't show a city on the map. What city would be most representative? Texugo (talk) 21:08, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The most visited and interesting are Poços de Caldas (hydrothermal site) and São Thomé das Letras (hippie hotspot with some good waterfalls). 200.252.135.74 21:18, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:37, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Vista parcial de Uberaba (MG).jpg

Regions, again
Ten years ago, Minais Gerais was split into 10 subregions along the borders that the state government "designates for planning purposes". These borders don't have any relevance to travellers, especially as we have few articles for the state:

Northern Minas Gerais:
 * Triângulo Mineiro -- 3 articles
 * Northwest -- 0 articles
 * Jequitinhonha-Mucuri -- 1 article
 * North -- 1 article

Central Minas Gerais:
 * Central West -- 2 articles
 * Central East -- 11 articles

Southern Minas Gerais: does it make sense to split the state into 3 regions instead, or is there a better way of combining the existing subregions? Ground Zero (talk) 15:38, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Rio Doce -- 1 article
 * South -- 4 articles
 * Zona da Mata1 -- 3 articles
 * the scheme you propose sounds logical and appropriate to me, yes, it makes sense. It's a pity Texugo is not around anymore, he would be a great help in this task. Ibaman (talk) 15:52, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

 * . Much better than my proposal on Talk:Northwest . SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 22:52, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

 * Yeah, this looks fine to me. Thanks for proposing it! Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:32, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

The mergers are done. I'm going to work on improving the new region articles. I am not able to update the map on this article, though. Ground Zero (talk) 14:03, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Map
Here is a dynamic map showing the new regions. Ground Zero (talk) 17:45, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

here is another map that could use a static version when you gave time. This one's much more straightforward. Ground Zero (talk) 17:53, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the ping – I'll be sure to try and make one sometime in the next few days. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 23:32, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I realise it's been over 4 days, but I'll try to start the map tomorrow – I'm currently using a loan computer and expect to receive my computer back sometime tomorrow (which has Inkscape downloaded). Sorry for the wait. --1.144.104.253 12:29, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Wi-Fi died – that IP above is me. -- SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 12:30, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Don't apologize. We're all volunteers here. I will be grateful when you get around to it as it is not something I could do. It is unfortunate that so many subregions were created prematurely, creating the need now for consolidation. As I'm looking at Brazilian and Italian regions, I am now looking for ways to avoid having to draw new maps. Ground Zero (talk) 13:18, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Well, my computer finally arrived and here's the map (also on right). I didn't include any highways or freeways as that would make the map very crowded (not surprising given that the population of SP alone is over 12.3 million). SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 01:43, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

that looks great! Thank you very much! Ground Zero (talk) 10:51, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

 * My pleasure – and I'll get to Paraná tomorrow. In the meantime, I nominated this map for QI on Commons. SHB2000  (talk | contribs | meta) 11:07, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Minas Gerais


text:
Talk:Mineralnye Vody

"Police in this town can be bribed easily, as any other politician or army drafter. So if you have any problems there just be prepared to pay, especially don't be surprised if you get pulled over in the middle of the day for speeding, although you had not gone over the speed limit. It's just the way they earn money here, by robbing people. Somone american may have problems"

This is shameful and biased american opinion. They may of not like an american and he was treated badly but this is now how things are.

 * Now this I did not write, but I disagree that it was shameful, biased, and even American (it was added by an anon ip). I have several acquaintances who have traveled to MinVody & have consulted with travel agents who interact regularly with foreign travelers to Southern Russia & their accounts corroborate what this article said before you removed the above content. Please also keep in mind that this english-language article is primarily written for foreign visitors, not for Russians (after all, there is a Russian Wikivoyage); foreign visitors to this area will likely encounter official corruption and it is the purpose of Wikivoyage, not its shame to report this. --(WT-en) Peter Talk 03:54, 6 June 2008 (EDT)

title: Talk:Mineralnye Vody


text:
Talk:Minnan phrasebook

Split article
I think that we should perhaps split the article into Standard Minnan and Teochew phrasebooks. After all, although they are both variants of Minnan, they are significantly different and both have significant overseas populations, and speakers of each of the variants consider themselves distinct from the rest. What are your takes on this?

 * That would be pretty cool to have a Teochew phrasebook page created. However, it's probably not necessary to change the name of this page to "Standard Minnan phrasebook" because even though Teochew is a variety of Minnan, "Minnan" by itself probably (although I'm not sure) is assumed to refer to the varieties spoken in Xiamen and most of Taiwan and such. -(WT-en) Qeny 00:32, 2 October 2010 (EDT)

 * (years later) We do now have a Teochew phrasebook, but it does not have much content. Pashley (talk) 23:57, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Merge
I've restored the original phrasebook material on this page. If phonetic pronunciations (as in the newly-created Phonetic phrase list for English speakers) are needed, they should be added to this article, not put in a separate article. - (WT-en) Todd VerBeek 22:31, 3 August 2006 (EDT)

 * I tried to reorganize this page. According to wikipedia, it is more correct to say that Taiwanese is a dialect of Min Nan. Other dialects are Hokkien and Hakka. So on the Min Nan page I thought it would be better organization to create links to Taiwanese, and the others. It has been immediately reverted by Xltel without explanation, which makes me wonder if it was automatic. In the process of doing so the link to the Taiwanese page has been lost http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Taiwanese. Any advice to a new wiki-er would be appreciated! (WT-en) R s l n 18:39, 20 August 2006 (EDT)

I have heeded the advice to rename http://en.wikivoyage.org/wiki/Taiwanese to Taiwanese_phrasebook and taken the redirect out from Taiwanese_phrasebook to Minnan_phrasebook. Please see []. Minnan_phrasebook should probably be deleted. (WT-en) R s l n 20:21, 20 August 2006 (EDT)

 * Currently the article is at Minnan phrasebook; Hokkien and Taiwanese are redirects to that. My understanding is that those are all names for the same language, while Hainanese and Teochew are different but related languages. I do not think Hakka is part of that group.
 * See also below. Pashley (talk) 00:26, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

Romanisation
This page says "I've no idea what the conventions are for Romanisation", but appears to use pinyin.

Romanising Chinese is hard. Quite a few experts have worked on the problem for years. Methinks our only hope of getting it anywhere near right is to follow existing conventions.

Older books and maps may still be using Wade-Giles, but pinyin has been the standard on the mainland for decades, and a slightly different variant is now the standard fot Taiwan. We should use pinyin.

Phonetic phrase list for English speakers says someting like "Unconventional Romanisation. Trying to write phonetically for American english speakers..." I think this notion is doomed. Inventing a new romanisation is difficult; Wikivoyage needs to be usable for Australians, German speakers, ..., anyone who reads English; and in any case, American English has lots of variation. (WT-en) Pashley 04:36, 13 August 2006 (EDT)

 * This is Minnan, not Mandarin, so you can't use pinyin or Wade-Giles or any of the usual suspects. Wikipedia recommends Pe̍h-ōe-jī.

 * I think we need to have both an exact formal transcription, so people who like this kinda thing (like me!) can work out exactly how to pronounce things, and the pseudophonetics, so the rest of us can attempt to stammer out something roughly comprehensible. (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:42, 13 August 2006 (EDT)

Hi I am the one who added the "Phonetic phrase list for English speakers" and am new to wiki, apologies for not logging in before. I agree, that having both a formal romanization, in this case, Peh-oē-jī, and also an informal one, should be included. Even though I speak Taiwanese, I found Peh-oē-jī to be quite an endeavor, and perhaps more appropriate for the linguists than for the travellers. Thus I have decided to add the pseudophonetics to the bottom so there can be a list all in the formal, then a list for the informal (instead of, for each phrase, having both) to cut down on printed pages needed for the traveller who may decide on using one or the other. I think it is better to include the pseudophonetics than not, and leave it to the traveller to decide to use it or not. From my experience trying to teach people with no experience in tonal languages, this is the better way to get them going, and audio is really the best. As for the Peh-oē-jī section, good luck and thank you to anyone who can get that started. Also, upon reading more about this, I will separate the Taiwanese, as it falls *under* Min-nan languages, as well as others, like Hokkien or Hakka. See [] (WT-en) R s l n 17:53, 20 August 2006 (EDT)

Tone numbers
This page uses things like Gum(1) for first tone. I have not seen this before, though I have seen numbers simply appended like Gum1. If we are going to use numbers, I think we should do it that way and add an explanation of what the numbers mean.

Better I think to use tone marks as in this example from the China page: People's Republic of China (中华人民共和国 Zhōnghuá Rénmín Gònghéguó) (WT-en) Pashley 04:45, 13 August 2006 (EDT)

 * Pe̍h-ōe-jī uses tone marks, but obviously there are more of them because Minnan has eight tones and Mandarin has only 5. (WT-en) Jpatokal 04:47, 13 August 2006 (EDT)

moved from Phonetic phrase list for English speakers
to Talk:Minnan phrasebook/Phonetic phrase list for English speakers. Edit away! — (WT-en) Ravikiran 11:50, 20 August 2006 (EDT)

Move?
I think this should be moved to Hokkien phrasebook since Hokkien is the most widely used English term for the language. Would anyone object? Pashley (talk) 05:09, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

 * I think the phrasebook article don't move.--Yuriy kosygin (talk) 13:31, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Might you be able to explain why you think this? Hiàn (talk) 02:37, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Support. I'd agree that Hokkien is more widely used, no issues found. hiàn 15:28, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

 * Support per nom. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:02, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit torn on this. I will confirm that Hokkien is the most common term used by English speakers in Singapore and Malaysia, but I'm not sure if someone from the US or UK would understand what it means. I know for sure that a second language English speaker from Taiwan or China will have no idea what you are talking about. To the person from China, you'll have to say "Minnan Hua", and to the person from Taiwan, you'll have to say "Taiwanese", though they will also understand "Minnan Hua". The dog2 (talk) 00:29, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Can't we deal with this with redirects and a discussion of the various names for the language in introductory sections on background? Ikan Kekek (talk) 03:55, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I have no objection to any of your suggestions. As for what to name the article, it's a tough one. Yes, the term "Hokkien" is the most common English name of the language in Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia, but you will likely not be understood if you use that name in China or Taiwan (assuming the person speaks English). On the other hand, the term "Minnan" is not as widely understood in Southeast Asia. The dog2 (talk) 05:05, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree with The dog2 that Min Nan is the main term used in China. Your average American or Brit probably won't know any of these terms. I tend to think that when it comes to phrasebooks for Chinese, we should give less weight to Singapore and Malaysia, because in those countries travelers are more likely to be using English or a Malay phrasebook and less likely to be using a Chinese phrasebook. So on that basis my initial reaction is to oppose the move, though I'm open to being convinced. —Granger (talk · contribs) 07:47, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Speaking of which, even though the term "Minnan" is not widely used in Singapore and Malaysia, because many people receive Chinese channels through cable, it will still be known by a good number of people. And in Taiwan, even though most people there call it "Taiwanese", the term "Minnan" is universally understood. The dog2 (talk) 11:50, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
 * That changes my view. I was going to ask whether travelers to Taiwan would be most likely to be motivated to learn the language, as travelers to China would be most likely to learn spoken Mandarin, travelers to Malaysia would be most likely to learn Malay, and travelers to Singapore would be most likely to simply speak English. But if Minnan/Min Nan is a widely known term wherever it's spoken, we should redirect "Hokkien phrasebook" and "Taiwanese phrasebook". Ikan Kekek (talk) 13:20, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

With regards to Taiwan, I will say that if you can only afford to learn one language, it should be Mandarin. Virtually every non-elderly Taiwanese person is able to speak Mandarin, even if Minnan is their first language. On the other hand, most Hakka speakers and Taiwanese Aboriginals are not fluent in Minnan (though they will understand some common expressions), but the non-elderly ones will almost certainly know how to speak Mandarin. The dog2 (talk) 17:23, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Bloat?
I think the current introductory section is far too long and detailed for a travel guide. I want to shorten it radically, reverting to about what we had a while ago:

 * Minnan is the main language of Southern Fujian and has spread from there to other areas. It is known by several different names: in Mandarin, it is Minnan hua (South Fujian speech), in Taiwan Taiwanese (臺語 tâi-gí), in most of Southeast Asia Hokkien (福建話 Hok-kiàn-ōe) from the Minnan word for Fuijan, and in the Philippines, the overseas Chinese call it "Our People's Language" (咱儂話 Lán-lâng-ōe).

 * Each of the major cities of Fujian's Minnan-speaking areas — Xiamen, Quanzhou and Zhangzhou — and each overseas region where the language is spoken has its own slightly different variant. The overseas variants are influenced by other local languages; Taiwanese has some Japanese loanwords, Hokkien some from Malay/Indonesian and Cantonese, and so on. All these variants, however, are mutually intelligible to a great extent.

 * Minnan is not mutually unintelligible with Mandarin, Cantonese or other Chinese "dialects", not even with the other Min (Fujian) languages such as Mindong (Fuzhou Hua), Minbei and Puxian. Languages classified as related to Minnan are Teochew, which has only partial mutual intelligibility with Minnan, and Hainanese which has almost none.

 * Mandarin is an official language in China, Taiwan and Singapore, and widely used in education and media. Today most Minnan speakers on the mainland or in Taiwan also speak Mandarin, and most foreign residents of those areas choose to learn Mandarin rather than Minnan.

Other opinions? Pashley (talk) 16:17, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Can't we create some sort of "Understand" section? --Comment by Selfie City  ( talk  |  contributions ) 19:31, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

 * I agree with Pashley. The current introduction doesn't feel very readable to me. And since phrasebooks are entirely about understanding and being understood, I would oppose titling any section "Understand". Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:33, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

 * I agree with splitting part of the lede off to a different section. I think we can see the Chinese phrasebook for guidance on how to do it. For that matter, I think we should do the same in the Cantonese phrasebook too. The dog2 (talk) 00:32, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

 * I disagree. I think the above is all we need & it belongs in the lede.
 * I'd also remove the bit about what overseas Chinese in the Philippines call it; that has nothing to do with the English name (I've heard a Filipino who spoke the language call it Hokkien in English) & has little relevance to travellers. Pashley (talk) 15:49, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

 * I disagree on the point about the Philippines. What kind of phrasebook does not have the name of the language in its native form? The dog2 (talk) 16:56, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

✅ I inserted my version. Saving previous version below in case some should be salvaged:

Southern Min, Minnan, Hokkien-Taiwanese (Mainland China : 闽南方言 Bân-lâm-hong-giân : Min Nan Dialect ; Taiwan (Kuomingtang, KMT) : 臺灣閩南語 Tâi-uân-Bân-lâm-gí Min Nan Language ; Taiwan (Democratic Progressive Party, DPP and other Opposition Political Parties) : 臺語 tâi-gí Taiwanese Language), is a Chinese Min language subgroup of dialects that is mainly spoken in the southern region of Fujian province and in Taiwan. It is the most well-known and the largest Min Chinese subgroup and the major Min Chinese Language group of Fujian and Taiwan today, it is also spoken by certain overseas Chinese populations whose ancestral families hail from Southern Fujian, particularly in Southeast Asian countries such as Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia and The Philippines, where they make up the largest Chinese non-Mandarin language group before Cantonese. In Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia, the overseas Chinese call it Hokkien (福建話 Hok-kiàn-ōe), while in the Philippines, the overseas Chinese call it "Our People's Language" (咱儂話 Lán-lâng-ōe).

The four mutually intelligible Min Nan dialects are Quanzhou, Zhangzhou, Xiamen and Taiwanese. All the mutually intelligible Min Nan dialects spoken in Southern Fujian and Taiwan are collectively known as Hokkien-Taiwanese Quanzhang Min Nan language (闽台泉漳片闽南语). The Overseas Min Nan dialect variants spoken in Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, The Philippines and some other Southeast Asian countries are influenced by Malay, English, Cantonese or other local languages spoken in the Southeast Asian countries, while the Min Nan dialects spoken in Western countries are mostly the Taiwanese Min Nan Language.

There are non-Mandarin/non-Cantonese Chinese varieties spoken in some areas in Guangdong Province that are related to Min Nan dialects. Generally, the Hokkien-Taiwanese Quanzhang (闽台泉漳片) type of Min Nan spoken in Southern Fujian and Taiwan is the mainstream form of Min Nan because it has the largest number of speakers among all the Min Nan dialects in Mainland China, Taiwan and Southeast Asia and the influence of Taiwanese Min Nan after the post martial law period during the late 1980s in Taiwan today. The variants of Min Nan spoken in Guangdong and Hainan bear more differences with the mainstream Min Nan dialects compared to the smaller differences between the mainstream Min Nan dialects.

Although the variants of Min Nan have a historical linguistic relationship with Hokkien-Taiwanese Quanzhang (闽台泉漳片) Min Nan, they differ significantly in pronunication and use of slang which are unique to the region, so they are not easily mutually intelligible with the Hokkien-Taiwanese Quanzhang Min Nan. For example, Teochew (Chaoshan) has only partial mutual intelligibility with Mainstream Min Nan, while the Hainanese variant of Min Nan has no mutual intelligibility with Mainstream Min Nan.

The modern standard dialect pronunciations of Min Nan are Xiamen dialect accent and Taiwanese Min Nan dialect (Tainan prestige accent). The Tainan prestige accent of the Taiwanese Min Nan dialect is the dialect accent that is mostly used in Minnan television broadcasting and Minnan song production in Taiwan. The Taiwanese Min Nan dialect is influential as the Taiwanese Min Nan Television shows today and Taiwanese Min Nan songs are well known among the native Min Nan Chinese speakers in Southern Fujian, Taiwan, overseas Chinese in Southeast Asia and Western countries. Although native Min Nan Chinese speakers do not adopt the standard Min Nan pronunciation themselves, the standard Min Nan pronunciation is generally understood by most. Xiamen dialect's accent is very similar to the Taiwanese Min Nan dialect (Tainan prestige accent), both are mixtures of Quanzhou and Zhangzhou Min Nan dialect accents. The Xiamen dialect and Taiwanese Min Nan dialect (Tainan prestige accent) are highly mutually intelligible (98% phonetically similar; 90% lexically similar). The difference between the two standard Min Nan dialects is that the Xiamen dialect accent is slightly inclined towards the Quanzhou dialect accent while Taiwanese Min Nan dialect (Tainan prestige accent) is slightly inclined towards the Zhangzhou dialect accent. The mainland Min Nan dialects and Taiwan Min Nan dialect also differ in lexicon to a small extent. Furthermore, Taiwanese Min Nan has borrowed some terminology from Japanese, due to the legacy of the Japanese colonial rule of Taiwan during the late 18th century till the Kuomintang takeover of Taiwan.

Min Nan can be said to be mutually unintelligible with standard Mandarin and other dialects not only due to the pronunciation differences but also because of the irregular word/character conversion, i.e. a non-native Minnan speaker can only understand the dialect to a small extent even when it is presented in written form (e.g. "食甲尚好驚血壓懸,媠毋綴人走" : 《陳雷.歡喜就好》) It is also not mutually intelligible with the other branches of the Min dialect family such as Mindong, Minbei and Puxian. That said, virtually all younger Minnan speakers in mainland China and Taiwan able to speak Mandarin as well.

Pashley (talk) 17:37, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

poorly understood grammar please fix it.
Minnan is not mutually unintelligible with Mandarin, Cantonese or other Chinese "dialects", not even with the other Min (Fujian) languages such as Mindong (Fuzhou Hua), Minbei and Puxian.

that above of sentences are not understandable, since the usage of "Not" is questionable. How Minnan is related to Mandarin? How Minnan is not related to Mindong? Okay this is finished and i hope someone can fix this situation and thanks. CMIIW. 182.253.54.79 14:19, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

 * Good catch. I removed "un" so we now have "Minnan is not mutually intelligible with ..." Pashley (talk) 00:48, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Minnan phrasebook


text:
Talk:Minnan phrasebook/Phonetic phrase list for English speakers

Unconventional romanization. Trying to write phonetically from an (American) english speaking standpoint. Goal is to have an english speaker's first try be fairly close, without reading a bunch of rules for phonetization. Unfortunately, it is difficult to cover all tones this way, especially nasal and breath differences, and thus cannot be completely accurate. Also to note is the author learned Taiwanese from one parent from the south, and one parent from the north.

 * Asterisk precedes words that are very hard to phonetize. It would be nice to get some audio on here for these.

 * Also to note is the phoneme for "* L" or "* D" used below. The best I can describe it is to transition between an "N", "L" and "D" sound. It is not as hard as a "D" but you keep your tongue flat on your palette (as opposed to tip as in "L"). I've chosen "* L" or "* D" depending on, in my opinion, which is the least offensive...

Basics
Hello - * Li hoh -- literally, "you good?"

How are you - * Li hoh-boh; OR Jiak pah bo -- literally, "eat full?"

Not bad - Mbay pngai

Good, Thank you - Informal: Huh, duh shiah. Formal: Huh, gahm shiah

What is your name - * Li-ay myah shee ha mee?

My name is - Wah-ay mya shee

Please - Pbai toh

That's OK / Your Welcome - Me-en Kayk khee

Excuse me - Phai say

Sorry - Informal: Phai say. Formal: * Shid eh

Goodbye - tzai chien

I don't know how to speak English - Wah mbay hyow gong eng-yee

Do you know how to speak English? - * Li gah-ay hyow gong eng-yee

Is there someone here who speaks English? - Jiah gah oo * lahng ay hyow gong eng-yee

I don't understand - Wah tyah bo

Where's the bathroom? - Ben so dee-da lok

Problems
Go Away - Tzow

Don't touch me! - Mai gah-wah mo

I'll call the police. - Informal: Wah kah gien tsah. Formal: Wah ay kah hoh gien tsah.

Police! - Gien tsah

Stop! - Dohng

I need your help. - Wah soo-yow * dee-ay bahm-mahng

I'm lost. - Wah mbo-key

I lost my purse/wallet. - Wah pahng-key wah-ay pay bow

I'm sick. - Wah pwah bee or Wah gahng koh

I've been injured. - Wah dyuh shohng

I need a doctor. - Wah dah-ai ee-shun

Can I use your phone? - Wah gah-ay sai yen * li-ay dyeng-way

Numbers
1 - jeet

2 - nun

3 - sa

4 - shee

5 - go

6 - * lahk

7 - cheet

8 - bway

9 - gow

10 - tsahp

11 - tsah-eet

12 - tsah- * dee

13 - tsah-sa

14 - tsah-she

15 - tsah-go

16 - tsah-lahk

17 - tsah-cheet

18 - tsah-bway

19 - tsah-gow

20 - * lee-tsahp

21 - * leetsahp-eet

22 - * leetsahp- * dee

23 - * leetsahp-sa

...

30 - sa-tsahp

40 - she-tsahp

50 - go-tsahp

60 - * lahk-tsahp

70 - cheet-tsahp

80 - bway-tsahp

90 - gow-tsahp

100 - jee-bah

200 - nun-bah

300 - sa-bah

1000 - jee-cheng

2000 - nun-cheng

10,000 - jee-mahng

100,000 - tsahp-mahng

1,000,000 - jeebah-mahng

1,000,000,000 - jeecheng-mahng

1,000,000,000,000

half - * bwah

less - kah jyuh

more - kah tsay

Ordinal Numbers
first - day-eet

second - day- * dee

third - day-sa

fourth - day-she

fifth - day-go

...

twentieth

...

hundredth - day jee-bah

...

thousandth - day jee-chien

Time
now - jeemah or jeetzoon

later - kah dahng-ay or shuh dahng

before - ee jun

early - dtsah

earlier - kah dtsah

morning - tao dtsah

in the morning - tzai kee

tomorrow morning - miyah tsai kee tao dtsah

afternoon - ay boh

in the afternoon -

evening - ay ahm

in the evening -

night - ahm

in the night - ahm-sheea

Clock time
one o'clock AM - tao tza jeet diam

two o'clock AM - tao tza nen diam

noon - dyong dow

one o'clock PM - ay boh jeet diam

two o'clock PM - ay boh nen diam

midnight

Duration
minute - whhun

5 minutes - go whhun

hour - diam jun

5 hours - go diam jun

day - * leet

5 days - go * leet

week - * lay bai

5 weeks - go * lay bai

month - whay * leet

5 months - go whay * leet

year - nee

5 years - go nee

Days
today - gyah * de * deet

the day before yesterday - tzuh * leet

yesterday - dtsah-ung

tomorrow - miyah tsai

the day after tomorrow - ow * leet

this week - tsi * day bai

last week - den * day bai

the week before last week - jen * lay bai

next week - ow * lay bai

the week after next week - ow ow * lay bai

Monday - bai-it

Tuesday - bai- * dee

Wednesday - bai-sa

Thursday - bai-shee

Friday - bai-go

Saturday - bai- * lahk

Sunday - * lay-bai


text:
Talk:Minneapolis

 * see also: Talk:Minneapolis/Archive

Sources for the district divisions?
I have lived in Minneapolis, and still live nearby, and the "districts" into which the city is divided in the article don't appear to be sourced, and don't match what I call different parts of Minneapolis. Who has a source for the distinction between Southwest Minneapolis and South Minneapolis and so on? -- WeijiBaikeBianji (talk) 22:10, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

 * As a travel guide, we're not terribly concerned with sources, unlike Wikipedia. Instead, we break down cities into manageable "chunks" that basically serve as chapters of a city guide, and we give our editors the freedom to figure out what the breakdown and individual boundaries should be. It looks like Eco84 made this map, so I'll ask him to comment here. --Peter Talk 22:28, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Most of the district breakdown used for this article dates from October 2005, almost a year before I started editing at the precursor of Wikivoyage. The only major change since then has been in regards to South and Southwest. The South Minneapolis article originally covered the entire southern half of the city, which is simply too large of a geographic area to be covered as a single district, hence the creation of the Southwest Minneapolis article. FYI, the dividing line being used to separate South and Southwest is Interstate 35W. Many, but not all, of the dividing lines being used to separate the districts for this article are along interstate highways; I had originally uploaded a second crude-looking map with the exact district boundaries properly labeled (it was linked to on this talk page above), but it appears to have been deleted in the transition from WT to WV.

Having said that, I am more than open to other ideas for breaking down Minneapolis into districts, with the caveat that we refrain from going overboard on the number of districts (for instance, an article only covering the North Loop/Warehouse District area would probably be too small), and that we don't leave any section of the city uncovered. Eco84 (talk) 01:07, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Alternative banner for this article?

In the Hebrew Wikivoyage we are currently using this banner instead of the one which is currently used here. Do you think too that this banner would would better than the existing one? ויקיג'אנקי (talk) 06:42, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

 * I like the current banner, with the river and the bridge, better. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:10, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
 * I'd also prefer the current one. On the new one I don't much like the cut off building tops. Danapit (talk) 19:09, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Transit update?
According to the article, there are two Metro lines. However, there are apparently three, with more planned. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:11, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The article currently refers to the two light rail lines that actually go through Minneapolis proper, the Blue Line and the Green Line. The third line you reference that's branded as part of the METRO system (somewhat questionably, IMO) would be the Red Line, which is a bus line that travels through a couple suburbs in the southern Twin Cities metro area. Its service levels have been cut down to the point where it is no longer even part of the High Frequency network. Eco84 (talk) 11:25, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
 * I see. That wasn't clear at all to me. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:17, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Light Rail Lines on Dynamic Maps
Can we get the light rail lines to show up on the dynamic maps of the district articles? Hobbitschuster (talk) 19:52, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

 * I guess something needs to be done in Wikidata for them to show up automatically. A workaround is to open the menu in the upper right corner and tick the "Traffic line network" box (of course not all readers and possibly even all editors know about that functionality). --Ypsilon (talk) 16:26, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Guide and DotM?
Minnesota is one of the dozen or so U.S. states that have never had any feature on the Main Page. So how about Minneapolis for DotM, maybe next summer?

The article is usable now, but especially given that the district articles range from pretty good to excellent (except Minneapolis/North, which definitely needs some content in Get in to deserve usable status, which is needed for the main Minneapolis article to be a guide) I think guide status wouldn't be too far away. It's also good we have a local Wikivoyager from the city.

There's apparently still some stuff in Do that should be moved to the approporiate district articles, and the article does have a ton of bullet points that need to be turned into flowing text. Places that don't exist any longer need to be deleted and things like prices need to be updated. Moreover some sections could also use a photo or two, and that's pretty much it, I'd say. Thoughts? Ypsilon (talk) 16:06, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Comments, anyone? --Ypsilon (talk) 16:19, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

 * I have family in the Twin Cities and visit often. Minneapolis is a city that's more than deserving of Main Page coverage. I'm not sure how much effort I can commit to adding content or other cleanup (which is not to say that I can't commit any at all). -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 16:40, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Protests in the warningbox
I'm surprised that User:AndreCarrotflower is edit-warring to remove a warningbox after multiple nights of violence in the city and a curfew imposed. I'd say the warning should be restored immediately. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:40, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

 * Why is this conversation happening in three separate places simultaneously? I've already responded to these concerns at my own talk page and in Talk:United States of America and no one has bothered to respond. -- AndreCarrotflower (talk) 15:43, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

 * The issue of Minneapolis is somewhat distinct from the rest of the U.S. in that the situation has been going on for longer in this city than in others, and that in theory a warningbox in this article would apply to domestic as well as international travelers. But okay, I'm happy to centralize the discussion at Talk:United States of America. —Granger (talk · contribs) 15:44, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Minneapolis


text:
Talk:Minneapolis/Downtown

Removed or closed listings
Passed by this on the bus a few days ago. Appeared to be out of business, and there was a sign for a new business moving in:
 *  (WT-en) Eco84 18:42, 28 November 2009 (EST)

Removed this national chain:
 * The Rock Bottom Brewery located Downtown Minneapolis (9th & Hennepin) hosts a variety of refreshing, innovative beers. The pints are great, and the food is even better. Stay away from the "Angry Hippie," though, as most people seem to dislike it.  On busy nights you may expect a long wait, but it's not so bad if you can manage to get a pint before your meal. On the less busy Sunday nights, the bar is open only until 12AM, but there is fewer customers so the servers are far more attentive.  Around the time the offices are let out (5PM), expect a longer wait. A good plate costs around $25, and is well worth it. (WT-en) Eco84 13:19, 29 November 2009 (EST)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:52, 13 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Minneapolis15.jpg

title: Talk:Minneapolis/Downtown