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Talk:Poland: Thousands of far-right nationalists gather in Warsaw to march for white supremacy, anti-liberalism, and anti-Islam on Polish independence day

Title
The title is a placeholder; anyone may change it. I'm going to let this sit for a bit because I've got stuff to do and my Internet is working very slow. If anyone wants to polish the Polish and hit review that's fine with me. What I'd really like is to include a quote from Pope Francis commenting on the march, considering all this citing of Catholicism. Darkfrog24 (talk) 04:08, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Say something unique. How many people? What was the reason? What was the objective? Something? 223.237.238.35 (talk) 22:10, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * If you are Acagastya It looks from the edit history that you are Acagastya. Please respect my wishes and leave me as a person alone for a few weeks. Talk about the article if you must but don't talk about me.  Don't tell me to make changes for you; make them yourself or leave them unmade.  If you are not Acagastya, then say "I am not Acagastya."
 * Regardless of who you are, go ahead and write whatever title you see fit. I believe the title is good enough right now, but it's not shining-great, and I welcome anyone who wants to improve it. Darkfrog24 (talk) 05:20, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I want the user who wrote it in the first place (in this case, you) to make those edits so that you would keep that it in mind for the next time.
 * From Headline:
 * This is not the first time nationalist group marched in Warsaw. This might not be the last. There is something about this event which separates it from other marches. Just like how Women's March becomes largest protest in U.S. history mentioned what was the unique thing. Or, I can think of an example. Um, how about "tourists spot a polar bear near arctic circle". It speaks nothing special, because polar bears are found in that place. Or like how people can march in a democracy. But if you say "tourists spot a rainbow-coloured polar bear near arctic circle", that's something unique. Like how pro-christianity/anti-immigrant, muslim march was. •–• 13:30, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Stop making posts like this to me for a while. Stop making requests like this to me for a while.  Either change the title yourself or leave it unchanged, but leave me alone.  You've been a jerk and I'm angry at you and I need to figure out how to talk to you so that our conversations actually get somewhere.  We both need to let our palates clear. Darkfrog24 (talk) 15:24, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Whether or not you are capable of/willing to respect my wishes about this is going to affect how I go about interacting with you in the future. Darkfrog24 (talk) 15:25, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I don’t know why this troubles you. I can do “not posting things on your talk”, but I would always point out the problems of the article. You asked to leave information on talk page. I did. I stayed to the point, and tried to explain you how this one is just not correct. I didn’t “target” you either. But if this also troubles you, I am sorry, this jerk doesn’t know what would not offend you. (How about you giving me a template, telling me how you wish to receive a message about what is wrong in an article, and how can you correct it? Or, if you don’t like anyone telling what the problem is, with the articles, and you don’t like knowing the mistake you have made, just say it explicitly. •–• 16:29, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * You left information on the talk page, but not for just anyone who might happen to be here. You addressed it to me specifically.  You even pinged me.
 * I pinged you after you responded. I did not, when I asked to mention something unique. •–• 17:15, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * how you wish to receive a message about what is wrong in an article From you, not at all, for let's say six weeks. Do not address posts about what you think is wrong with the article to me. Don't tell me to do things to the article.  If you think they're necessary, do them yourself.  Keep it to yourself for a while.  It is not "not anyone." It is you specifically.
 * My I'm-pissed-off-at-you tank is full. Allow it time to drain. Darkfrog24 (talk) 17:00, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry, that is not going to happen. You can ignore the messages. But certain things has to be on the talk page, for other reviewer/editor to know. And as you had mentioned, I should not call you from 1.7km to pick up the litter which is next to me -- well, someone else will. I would not. Because if we keep doing it, others (not only you, others) would not learn. •–• 17:15, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Then post to the talk page saying "I think the title should be more specific" but don't address the post to me or mention me in any way, not as Darkfrog24, not as "the person who drafted this article," not at all. Leave me as a person out of it. Darkfrog24 (talk) 17:39, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I pinged you after you responded because that message was for you. Before that, when I said to speak something unique, I did not address you. •–• 17:46, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah but my response was "please leave me alone."
 * Or you could always just not work on articles that I've drafted. I quit trying to edit your articles a few weeks ago for reasons I've already told you about.  It's not that hard. Darkfrog24 (talk) 17:50, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry. No can do. You may be the author, but if it has some serious problems, Wikinews suffers a loss -- probably more than what the author has to. I really have more important things to do on-wiki than to discuss about article rename. But if you can not understand the problem even after I quoted the policy, I leave it for another reviewer. Maybe you would listen to them. •–• 17:59, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * @Acagastya, Why are you ordering people around? You seem intent on making everyone at wikinews miserable. Is that your intent? Ottawahitech (talk) 01:01, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry. No can do. You may be the author, but if it has some serious problems, Wikinews suffers a loss -- probably more than what the author has to. I really have more important things to do on-wiki than to discuss about article rename. But if you can not understand the problem even after I quoted the policy, I leave it for another reviewer. Maybe you would listen to them. •–• 17:59, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * @Acagastya, Why are you ordering people around? You seem intent on making everyone at wikinews miserable. Is that your intent? Ottawahitech (talk) 01:01, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

 * It's okay, Ottawahitech. Acagastya and I are both adults and we will work this out.  I just need a little space to think and I believe Acagastya could benefit from that as well.  I'm sure Acagastya will discuss his beliefs and motives with you if you ask on his user talk page. Darkfrog24 (talk) 03:36, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * There is no AGF on this project, so it is okay if they want to say this, I think I should answer them. Why am I ordering people around? Well, I, and generally anyone would help a newbie, fix styling, markup, tone, neutrality...anything, even if we have to write it from scratch. When I joined Wikinews, Bddpaux helped me for my first article (first published article). I do it for others. It is okay to help a newbie, but it is not good to do their work always. You know, I could just stop wikilinking things in an article and say "I don't have time", or "I can't edit for some time" or anything. Editors would do it for me, sometimes, but it was my work. And I should be doing this. There were a couple of times when I was at home, and I could not link keywords on time and I had to sleep, and I submit it for review and message Pi zero that I would not be able to link it since my dad asked me to sleep. But I can not ask anyone to do my work. Another thing is, when we fix everything for a newbie, it is possible they take things for granted. On the other hand, if we ask them to make a particular edit, it is possible that they will remember it, and improve it. In this case, this was not the first time a Polish group marched in Warsaw, and the headline should say something unique. That is why I just left a note it should say something that makes it different from other marches. One can always say, "This is a wiki, people work together". But it is not good to halfheartedly contribute to a project. I am not saying Darkfrog24 is not interested in editing Wikinews -- they are close to get a 100 articles published, that is a very impressive number. But, don't forget that this "wiki" is a "news" site, and things are need to be done quick, and it should be in that state for a long time. It would hardly take me a minute to rename this page. But, if I am unable to explain why this page should be renamed, it is possible Darkfrog24, or anyone whose article I am editing might not learn from it. Ottawahitech, 30 months ago, when I was new to Wikinews, other editors helped me, but they ensured that I do my own work, learn from my mistakes, and improve. I have these numbers now, because I learnt when they pointed out the problems. There were times when I could not fix things, but I know, the more we do things, the more we tend to learn. Lesser involvement results in the opposite of it. •–•  14:00, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Almost forgot to mention: I was reviewing an article, and I had to go for bank, it was ten minute work. On my way home, I met with an accident, and it took me hours to finish the work. I had asked numbermaniac to write that article, and they stayed up late so that there could be one more article on Wikinews. What I am saying is, we might take things casually, but because of that, the article has to suffer. •–• 14:32, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I thought acagastya's initial message was quite respectful, especially compared to previous similar messages. I understand that there is history here and that any message by acagastya asking/suggesting Darkfrog24 make changes is going to be poorly received by Darkfrog24 because xe is sensitized to acagastya's criticism. I don't know that asking one to stay away from the other is going to work all that well as this is a small community.
 * Also, the unique thing about this event was that, for the first time, the march drew more participants than the official Independence Day events. I'm not sure of the best headline encompassing this though. Ca2james (talk) 04:35, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * ... And after reading the article I see that this unique thing isn't included in the article. The article is verging on stale so I don't think it's useful for me to make changes to it. Ca2james (talk) 04:44, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, it's not as bad as the other posts, but I need to let my tolerance aquifer recharge. That'll take some time.  Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:18, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Review of revision 4364800 [Passed]
Just a thought for the future: the headline ended up longer than preferred. Simple things that could be done to tighten it up just a bit include replacing "gather in Warsaw to march" with "march in Warsaw", and leaving out the "and" before "anti-Islam" (common ); those alone would reduce it from
 * Poland: Thousands of far-right nationalists gather in Warsaw to march for white supremacy, anti-liberalism, and anti-Islam on Polish independence day

to
 * Poland: Thousands of far-right nationalists march in Warsaw for white supremacy, anti-liberalism, anti-Islam on Polish independence day

which is at least a start. I'd have been tempted to leave out the list, leaving
 * Poland: Thousands of far-right nationalists march in Warsaw on Polish independence day

--Pi zero (talk) 23:16, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I was too sleepy to make that call, and that is why I asked you if the current title was okay. I had never reviewed an article this late. So I think I did not do a good job. I hope I don't forget it. •–• 17:06, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

Makeprotected
Makeprotected •–• 22:12, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Pi zero (talk) 23:18, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Paywalled sources
Though not strictly enforced these days, but we do not allow paywalled sources. In this case, Irish Independent. I was surprised when Pi zero allowed your article with The New York Times source, since they had asked me not to use that as they were paywalled. Even if it might be easy to bypass, it is better to avoid paywalled websites. •–• 16:40, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The article I used is not paywalled. I don't like it when you make assumptions about what I do and don't know like this, and I am not up for tolerating it right now.  I have repeatedly told you to leave me alone for a while.  When you ping me, I feel like you are making excuses to flaunt your disregard of my wishes.  When the thing you are complaining about literally did not happen I have to at least entertain the idea that you might be making up things to complain about.  At the absolute least, you didn't check.  Respect my wishes and leave me alone until my well of patience recharges. Darkfrog24 (talk) 23:51, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I fail to see how this has anything to do with "the assumption". I was the one who reviewed the article. If the content was blocked then, I would have not-ready'd then. How about you stop making assumptions. There is a serious issue with paywalled sources, and I faced it last night, and that is why I have told you. Let's get real, the number of times I have pinged you in the last ten days is four. One for your talk page message, one for this message, one for the problem with article's headline, and one when you asked Ottawahitech not to say something, even when there is no AGF on the project. None of which would be a deliberate act like the way you say it is. If you can not understand the seriousness of the problem with the headline, or the issue with paywall source, you have not understood most of the basic things of the project -- and this is not an assumption. This can not be false, because if it were, you would do something so this does not happen again. •–•  00:07, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I can not access the source right now, at least not until I do not use a VPN. •–• 00:08, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I can access the source but only if I answer a survey first. I don't know if that counts as paywalled. Ca2james (talk) 00:23, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
 * With an ad-blocker, the article loads directly. When I turned the ad-blocker off, I got a survey as Ca2james said, but note that you can press "Skip survey" at the bottom to get the article. -- numbermaniac  00:36, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Concerns raised in opinions
A concern was raised on the opinions page that this article might give a misleading impression. I'm noting this here with a flag so we don't forget to revisit the question (since I've been running short of time to do so for some days now). --Pi zero (talk) 19:44, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Though there are conflicting reports about the entire event tone (i.e. ) I have trouble concurring with the opinion that this is fake or misleading news. I expect the figures about the march size are correct though particularly as they were confirmed to an extent by local police. Perhaps the "thousands of" is vague and being vague may make an impression of bias in the first paragraph but this is a fact which is clarified down the story anyway...? It could be interesting to know what Polish Wikinews (or anyone Polish) can find about this, as they have access to local sources. --Gryllida (talk) 00:58, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
 * The main concern here I understand it (though the term "fake news" has been so overused it's losing its original meaning ) is that the event is annual so that we are inaccurate when we apparently say in the lede that it was organized by far-right groups. --Pi zero (talk) 01:15, 14 March 2018 (UTC)
 * If one is to believe the sources, this particular march was organized by far-right groups with a specific nationalist slogan and theme for it. That's stated in the sources very clearly. I'd like to check this in other sources, perhaps with the help of a Polish speaker. --Gryllida (talk) 03:23, 14 March 2018 (UTC)

 * When I first encountered this flag I'd hoped I could clear things up, as I was in Warsaw on the day, but the point being taken is about the march's history which is more complicated than a general concern of bias. I arrived late in the day, after the fascists had packed up and gone home. I later met up with a friend in the city; he brought the march up. He spoke with great sadness of his embarrassment at "walking past thousands of people in my home doing Nazi salutes". The tone in Poland was very much that this was an event of nationalism of an ugly sort. As to how, or if, that helps us? I'm unsure. BRS  (Talk)   (Contribs) 13:58, 10 January 2019 (UTC)


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makeprotected •–• 07:23, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I feel we should be able to simplify all this. Perhaps by having a single template that takes a parameter saying what action is being requested; one could then have all these specialized templates as optional alternative ways to call the central one.  If one were going to do that, though, one would have to decide how to handle the parameter that specifies the kind of request.  After all, tasks had an interface kind of like that and only an expert could know what the major names were for the different parameter values.  A parser of some kind might help, to add a bit of flexibility in the parameter value, but then there are problems with how to see that the parser interprets it correctly, what to do when the parser doesn't know what to make of it (or gets it wrong), and how to customize it going forward.  More thought seems indicated; perhaps there's a way we can .  --Pi zero (talk) 15:09, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't want to do that. That is one of the most confusing things to deal with. Remembering those keywords is not easy. Till date, I have never managed to use it successfully, (add delete to that category, too) In this case, one wants to add a category, it is add category, make protected, makeprotected is the template. I read your other comment on other talk page, probably your talk page, about complexity, and how templates changed and tasks came to existence. However, all the templates I have created will deal with archived/protected pages. So, we are making it quite clear what is to be done. Like if there is an editprotected, now we know what type of edit is requested. If an admin is in a mood to delete some unused fair use files -- they can see the list with one click. If one is in a mood to remove categories, that can be done with one click too. 150.129.88.45 (talk) 17:46, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I was not suggesting the sort of confusing "keyword" interface you're talking about. I mentioned above, particularly, that it is something to avoid.  However, the names of the templates are in effect "keywords" themselves, subject to the same sorts of problems with remembering them.  This approach doesn't actually solve the problem, just shifts it from one namespace to another.  --Pi zero (talk) 18:20, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * But separates what exactly is to be done. 150.129.88.45 (talk) 19:58, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

❌ I don't see this meeting WN:PP. In fact, it looks like there's some debate whether to keep this template at all. --SVTCobra 20:04, 9 May 2018 (UTC)

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makeprotected •–• 07:33, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

 * Don't see a strong need. --Pi zero (talk) 17:21, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

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User talk:223.237.238.35

If you are Acagastya, please respect my wishes and leave me as a person alone for a while. If you want to make a change to an article that I've drafted, just do it. Talk about the article if you must but do not talk about me where it pertains to Wikinews (if you want to talk about the weather, etc., that's fine). Pertains to this. If you are not Acagastya, say "I am not Acagastya." Darkfrog24 (talk) 02:39, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

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title: User talk:HarlanSpargo03


text:
User talk:Gluten master

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title: User talk:Gluten master


text:
User talk:Mzm8

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title: User talk:Mzm8


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User talk:Kinggym0105

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--Pi zero (talk) 12:53, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Kinggym0105


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User talk:DrEkstein

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title: User talk:DrEkstein


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User talk:SuriyakumarKR

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title: User talk:SuriyakumarKR


text:
User talk:Knowledgemerry

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 09:11, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Knowledgemerry


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User talk:Alaasaadjousef

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title: User talk:Alaasaadjousef


text:
User talk:かあらもち

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title: User talk:かあらもち


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User talk:Sonjafreeman1

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title: User talk:Sonjafreeman1


text:
User talk:14.192.26.170

You have a message at the talk page for your article. Darkfrog24 (talk) 12:36, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:14.192.26.170


text:
User talk:Winof

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 13:27, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Winof


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User talk:Kristian.HP

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title: User talk:Kristian.HP


text:
User talk:Riccardo Cazzin

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 13:58, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Riccardo Cazzin


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User talk:Trilton Ethan Mmpelwa

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 15:41, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Trilton Ethan Mmpelwa


text:
Template:InfoboxStart/doc

Usage
Use with a matching call to InfoboxEnd, to build an infobox.

title: Template:InfoboxStart/doc


text:
User talk:Саид Мисарбиев

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 16:07, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Саид Мисарбиев


text:
Template:InfoboxStart/doc/use-count/doc

over 10,000

title: Template:InfoboxStart/doc/use-count/doc


text:
User talk:EstelaBarth4679

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 17:15, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:EstelaBarth4679


text:
User talk:CarminePlayford

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title: User talk:CarminePlayford


text:
User talk:Over Doze

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title: User talk:Over Doze


text:
User talk:Mutand8

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 19:08, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

Question?
Were you wondering something? --Pi zero (talk) 01:05, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mutand8


text:
User talk:16sudhir

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 19:16, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:16sudhir


text:
User talk:Jimnutting

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title: User talk:Jimnutting


text:
User talk:Guerraiche messad

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title: User talk:Guerraiche messad


text:
DR Congo: Train crash kills more than 30 in Lualaba province

November 15, 2017 A train derailed on Sunday and fell into a ravine where it caught fire, according to, in Buyofwe, , southern Democratic Republic of the Congo. By varying reports 33 or more people were killed.

The train, with cargo including tanks of flammable fuel, was traveling from the country's second-largest city of to the town of Luena. After the thirteen-carriage train derailed and fell into the ravine, Associated Press reported, eleven carriages caught fire.

Early on, the Minister of Mines, Jean-Marie Tshizainga, confirmed eight deaths in the crash, according to Radio Okapi. By one report, the dead and injured, who suffered severe burns, were. The chief medical officer of told Radio Okapi about 30 injured people had been taken to hospital, while others were waiting to be transported. The provincial governor,, said the number of dead likely would rise.


text:
User talk:Tomasflavio 100

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title: User talk:Tomasflavio 100


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User talk:Tomasflavio 150

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title: User talk:Tomasflavio 150


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User talk:Florius37

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title: User talk:Florius37


text:
User talk:لمار للتسويق

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title: User talk:لمار للتسويق


text:
User talk:Salvadoriany 2004

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title: User talk:Salvadoriany 2004


text:
User:Mutand8

Hello. Where do I can ask anybody/somebody to take a advice

title: User:Mutand8


text:
User talk:ClockOTimeDragon

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title: User talk:ClockOTimeDragon


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User talk:Huangpub

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title: User talk:Hxy9243


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User talk:Msolway

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title: User talk:Msolway


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User talk:Dzugavili

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title: User talk:Dzugavili


text:
User talk:Ahamed Mushab 224

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title: User talk:Ahamed Mushab 224


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User talk:कलमकार

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title: User talk:कलमकार


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User talk:D003B

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title: User talk:D003B


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User talk:Joey kla

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title: User talk:Joey kla


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User talk:N15jan

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title: User talk:N15jan


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User talk:AZBgames

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title: User talk:AZBgames


text:
User talk:Germano 2019

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 10:34, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Germano 2019


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User talk:Nour al hodee

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 10:40, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Nour al hodee


text:
User talk:Koopinator

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title: User talk:Koopinator


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User talk:Cipriano Merys

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title: User talk:Cipriano Merys


text:
User talk:BMills

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title: User talk:BMills


text:
User talk:Ahmad000241

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 12:06, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Ahmad000241


text:
User talk:أسامة الجزري

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title: User talk:أسامة الجزري


text:
User talk:Sanction lee

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title: User talk:Sanction lee


text:
User talk:Samshui117

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title: User talk:Samshui117


text:
User talk:Mashlique

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title: User talk:Mashlique


text:
User talk:HTOOBWKVLT

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 14:56, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:HTOOBWKVLT


text:
User talk:Pharexia

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 15:00, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Pharexia


text:
User talk:KishaKosovich36

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 15:12, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:KishaKosovich36


text:
User talk:SHASHIKANT CHAUBEY(JHABBU)

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 15:24, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:SHASHIKANT CHAUBEY(JHABBU)


text:
User talk:Nikostic

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 16:01, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Nikostic


text:
User talk:Ismaïl Gourich

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 17:24, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Ismaïl Gourich


text:
User talk:Hk1020

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 20:05, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Hk1020


text:
User talk:Lay Z

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title: User talk:Lay Z


text:
User talk:Donalus

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 20:13, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Donalus


text:
User talk:بوحموش

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 21:36, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:بوحموش


text:
User talk:AsterismAlex

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 21:41, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:AsterismAlex


text:
User talk:Peje suizo

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 21:57, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Peje suizo


text:
User talk:PediAki

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 21:59, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:PediAki


text:
User talk:Olena Herasymova

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 22:03, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Olena Herasymova


text:
User talk:Dadilson Gervásio 1

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 22:04, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Dadilson Gervásio 1


text:
User talk:Qeole

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 22:04, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Qeole


text:
User talk:777k.h

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 22:07, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:777k.h


text: Comments:Poland: Thousands of far-right nationalists gather in Warsaw to march for white supremacy, anti-liberalism, and anti-Islam on Polish independence day


text:
User talk:Harrison36

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 22:13, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Harrison36


text:
User talk:Dinolover123456

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 22:39, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Dinolover123456


text:
Comments:Artiwara Kongmalai decided to run 2191 kilometers

Guys I am so sorry for a little bit mistake "from November, 1, 2017 to December, 25, 2017 (55 days)."


text:
Gunman kills at least four in shooting in Rancho Tehama, California

November 17, 2017 On Tuesday, in a multiple-location shooting spree lasting about 45 minutes, a gunman killed at least four people and wounded at least ten, including an injury at an elementary school in the rural town of, , approximately 120 (195 ) northwest of the state capital of. The shooter was shot dead by police. On Wednesday morning authorities reported his wife had been found dead in their house.

The shootings started at about 8 AM at a home. The gunman, wearing a tactical vest and driving a stolen truck, appeared to choose many of his other victims at random according to police. He shot a woman driving a car and a child who was a passenger, and rammed through the gate of the Rancho Tehama Elementary School, where he shot another child but was prevented from injuring more people by staff having locked the building down. According to the Associated Press, one of those killed was a neighbor with a restraining order against the gunman, who was accused of assaulting her in January. After he was fatally shot by deputies, a semi-automatic rifle and two handguns were recovered, and another gun was reportedly still in a stolen vehicle. According to the Sheriff’s Office, seven crime scenes were being investigated. On Wednesday morning the Associated Press reported that according to Tehama County Assistant Sheriff Phil Johnston, the body of the suspect's wife had been found hidden under the floor at their home, and she was believed to have been the first victim. He was identified as Kevin Janson Neal.

Witnesses reported hearing at least 100 gunshots, and a neighbor, Brian Flint, told the  the man had "been shooting a lot of bullets lately, hundreds of rounds, large magazines" and neighbors had warned the police he was "crazy" and had been "threatening" them.


text:
User talk:Gopuraj Ganesan

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 05:48, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Gopuraj Ganesan


text:
User talk:Mytfgt

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 06:43, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mytfgt


text:
User talk:Chenxuran

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 07:47, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Chenxuran


text:
User talk:Willthegreatest

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 07:50, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Willthegreatest


text:
User talk:Pmengjie

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 08:35, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Pmengjie


text:
User talk:Cyarenkatnikh

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 09:07, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Cyarenkatnikh


text:
User talk:Tomasflavio 200

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 09:48, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Tomasflavio 200


text:
User talk:Luemba938441816

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 09:52, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Luemba938441816


text:
User talk:Jafar.abazeed

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 10:36, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jafar.abazeed


text:
User talk:Jakkyou

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 10:38, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jakkyou


text:
User talk:Alikhaleghifard

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 10:41, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Alikhaleghifard


text:
User talk:Azmizi

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 11:30, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Azmizi


text:
User talk:Zenosoldier

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 13:02, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Zenosoldier


text:
User talk:Wan-to

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 13:20, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Wan-to


text:
User talk:AratuKlik

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 14:03, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:AratuKlik


text:
User talk:Panda Newsportal 2018

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 14:44, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Panda Newsportal 2018


text:
User:Problemsmith

I am a dedicated researcher, frequent user, occasional editor and WikiSloth. Welcome to my Userpage. For convenience I have created an account here, to know more about me please refer to my Wikipedia user account located on English Wikipedia. I am most involved in developing new topics and WikiMeta Microformats following WikiLinks for identity verification, I am also involved in international travel when working or touring as a non-state international citizen instead of an American citizen. You can read more about me there or use the standard settings to reach out to me if I made a mistake or if you correct an error that I made. I prefer all contacts via Wikipedia if they are contacts not related to edits I have made or introduced on this Wiki sub-platform. Thank you! - Col. David J. Wright (Problemsmith)

title: User:Problemsmith


text:
Wikinews:Water cooler/technical/archives/2017/October

AbuseFilter
Hello. While browsing the AbuseFilter configuration for this project I noticed that due to this discussion and this Task, you asked the AbuseFilter to be able to block users. However since when they added the configuration they forgot to add $wgGroupPermissions['sysop']['abusefilter-modify-restricted'] = true; the result is that no local admin can set a filter to block ('block', 'rangeblock' and 'degroup' are restricted options and only those with 'abusefilter-modify-restricted' can create/modify filters with those options enabled). If you still wish your filter to block, and the community is okay with it, I can submit a patch for review to amend the configuration. And now that we're on this AbuseFilter topic, if you wish any other amendment made to the AbuseFilter configuration I can take care of it too. Please let me know your thoughts on this. Best regards, MarcoAurelio (talk) 10:51, 16 October 2017 (UTC)


text:
Wikinews:Water cooler/technical/archives/2017/September

Improvements coming soon to Recent Changes
Hello

Sorry to use English. !

In short: starting on 26 September, New Filters for Edit Review (now in Beta) will become standard on Recent Changes. They provide an array of new tools and an improved interface. If you prefer the current page you will be able to opt out. Learn more about the New Filters.

What is this feature again?

This feature improves Special:RecentChanges and Special:RecentChangesLinked (and soon, Special:Watchlist – see below).

Based on a new design, it adds new features that ease vandalism tracking and support of newcomers: You can know more about this project by visiting the quick tour help page.
 * Filtering - filter recent changes with easy-to-use and powerful filters combinations, including filtering by namespace or tagged edits.
 * Highlighting - add a colored background to the different changes you are monitoring. It helps quick identification of changes that matter to you.
 * Bookmarking to keep your favorite configurations of filters ready to be used.
 * Quality and Intent Filters - those filters use ORES predictions. They identify real vandalism or good faith intent contributions that need help. They are not available on all wikis.

Concerning RecentChanges

Starting on 26 September, New Filters for Edit Review will become standard on Recent Changes. We have decided to do this release because of a long and successful Beta test phase, positive feedback from various users and positive user testing.

Some features will remain as Beta features and will be added later. Learn more about those different features.

If your community has specific concerns about this deployment or internal discussion, it can request to have the deployment to their wikis delayed to October 1, if they have sensible, consistent with the project, actionable, realistic feedback to oppose (at the development team's appreciation).

You will also be able to opt-out this change in your preferences.

Concerning Watchlists

Starting on September 19, the Beta feature will have a new option. Watchlists will have all filters available now on the Beta Recent Changes improvements.

If you have already activated the Beta feature "", you have no action to take. If you haven't activated the Beta feature "" and you want to try the filters on Watchlists, please go to your Beta preferences on September 19.

How to be ready

Please share this announcement!

Do you use Gadgets that change things on your RecentChanges or Watchlist pages, or have you customized them with scripts or CSS? You may have to make some changes to your configuration. Despite the fact that we have tried to take most cases into consideration, some configurations may break. The Beta phase is a great opportunity to have a look at local scripts and gadgets: some of them may be replaced by native features from the Beta feature.

Please ping me if you have questions.

On behalf of the Global Collaboration team, Trizek (WMF) 15:27, 14 September 2017 (UTC)


text:
User talk:Szbpkst

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 15:02, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Szbpkst


text:
User talk:Danmarino1234

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 15:04, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Danmarino1234


text:
User talk:Danmarino5678

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 15:05, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Danmarino5678


text:
User talk:CanadianLincoln

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 16:07, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:CanadianLincoln


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User talk:Andieebradford

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title: User talk:Andieebradford


text:
User talk:Carolene18

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title: User talk:Carolene18


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User talk:Inventerman

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 17:46, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Inventerman


text:
User talk:Huambo 2017

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 18:00, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Huambo 2017


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User talk:Mysha Redwan

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title: User talk:Mysha Redwan


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title: User talk:Papjeff


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title: User talk:Snoep26


text:
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title: User talk:Neverlandfw


text:
User talk:Iren Intelegator

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title: User talk:Iren Intelegator


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User talk:Lincs6

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 20:32, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Lincs6


text:
User talk:Antonio Cantile

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 21:38, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Antonio Cantile


text:
User talk:Rogerndlovu01

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 22:28, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

--Pi zero (talk) 23:25, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Rogerndlovu01


text: Talk:DR Congo: Train crash kills more than 30 in Lualaba province


text: Comments:DR Congo: Train crash kills more than 30 in Lualaba province


text:
User talk:أرينا

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 23:12, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:أرينا


text:
User talk:Pedrogarcia23

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 23:12, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Pedrogarcia23


text:
User talk:Jeff sa

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title: User talk:Jeff sa


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User talk:WilburCates676

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title: User talk:WilburCates676


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User talk:Epf12345

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title: User talk:Epf12345


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User talk:Hower1986

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 02:01, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Hower1986


text:
User talk:Maria Verelsis

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title: User talk:Maria Verelsis


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User talk:Regirma

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 03:28, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Regirma


text:
User talk:Singhkrmanish76

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 04:32, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Singhkrmanish76


text:
User talk:Jasetser

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 04:54, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jasetser


text:
User talk:Bokus321

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 05:38, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Bokus321


text:
User talk:Bagalu77

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 05:53, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

--Pi zero (talk) 13:23, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Bagalu77


text:
User talk:Subhisha Subhash

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 05:53, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Subhisha Subhash


text:
User:Amirmasoudraiesie

Amirmasoudraeisi

title: User:Amirmasoudraiesie


text:
User talk:Daud34

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 07:56, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

--Pi zero (talk) 13:20, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Daud34


text:
User talk:MakvanaDipak33

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 08:16, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:MakvanaDipak33


text: Category:Nissan

title: Category:Nissan


text:
User talk:Aujas Michel

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 10:32, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Aujas Michel


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User talk:Onyi48

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 10:50, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Onyi48


text:
User talk:Chamrosh

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 10:57, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Chamrosh


text:
User talk:Mohamed Kharchach

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 11:27, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mohamed Kharchach


text:
User talk:Scribbledca

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title: User talk:Scribbledca


text:
User talk:Богдан Ломпас

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 11:55, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Богдан Ломпас


text: Comments:Honda wins car, truck of the year, unveils Fit


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User talk:Avlaa

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 12:58, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Avlaa


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User talk:Artforia

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title: User talk:Artforia


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User talk:Raphael.arce

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title: User talk:Raphael.arce


text:
User talk:Մարինե Մանուկյան

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 13:59, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Մարինե Մանուկյան


text:
User talk:Maierchris

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 14:37, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Maierchris


text:
User talk:ToddQcc2988

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 14:42, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

--Pi zero (talk) 14:46, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:ToddQcc2988


text:
User talk:Djm-leighpark

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 15:48, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Djm-leighpark


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User talk:This Is Arpan Chaubey

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 16:30, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:This Is Arpan Chaubey


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User talk:Soufiane2003

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 16:41, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Soufiane2003


text:
User talk:Andres15valencia

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 18:05, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Andres15valencia


text:
User talk:Paulo King

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 18:14, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

--Pi zero (talk) 13:13, 24 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Paulo King


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User talk:ML8

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 19:52, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:ML8


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User talk:Hero of Sky

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 20:19, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Hero of Sky


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User talk:Karl Ilyich

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title: User talk:FATHER CHRIS


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-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 00:12, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

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-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 03:31, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Poshtun


text: Talk:Gunman kills at least four in shooting in Rancho Tehama, California


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Comments:Gunman kills at least four in shooting in Rancho Tehama, California

He too his own life the police did not kill him


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User talk:ToneyLaird658

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 03:49, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

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User talk:Liluoyi

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 04:46, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

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User talk:MaCz Cruz

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title: User talk:LRICristina


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-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 11:38, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:RaymonLeverette


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-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 11:39, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

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User talk:Kathryn2051

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title: User talk:Kathryn2051


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User talk:LillianaWhitmer

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title: User talk:LillianaWhitmer


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User talk:PlinkoHenry

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title: User talk:PlinkoHenry


text: Category:Angkor

title: Category:Angkor


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Category talk:Angkor

Fill this category •–• 13:43, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) Election of new 7 wonders of the world: deadline approaching ✅
 * 2) Canadian boy killed in Cambodian seige; Police storm school
 * 3) Plane with Korean, Czech tourists aboard crashes in Cambodia
 * 4) Search continues for crashed Cambodian plane and 22 aboard

 * I only felt this was appropriate for one of the articles because ≠  even if they use Angkor in the airport's name. The problem now, is there's only one article in the category. --SVTCobra 19:07, 7 May 2018 (UTC)

title: Category talk:Angkor


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User talk:AlvinBrett

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 13:44, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:AlvinBrett


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User talk:Cvassilliere

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title: User talk:Cvassilliere


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User talk:FATHER Frank

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title: User talk:FATHER Frank


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User talk:Joel Dos Santos JN

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title: User talk:CharlotteSawyers


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title: User talk:Zapf74


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title: User talk:Pawmot


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-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 22:08, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:GFields (WMF)


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User talk:Aryani Gindeel

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 23:35, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Aryani Gindeel


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title: User talk:Sollyucko


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-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 02:33, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

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-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 05:19, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Whoeverer


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User talk:Walter Tigra

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 05:49, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Walter Tigra


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User talk:Cipriano King

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 06:22, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

--Pi zero (talk) 20:51, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Cipriano King


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User talk:Cipriano Francisco JN

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title: User talk:Cipriano Francisco JN


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title: User talk:Lil By JN


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title: User talk:Nadiantara


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User talk:Lil JN

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title: User talk:Lil JN


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User talk:MarkusGrönlund

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title: User talk:MarkusGrönlund


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User talk:Paulo JN

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 14:03, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

--Pi zero (talk) 20:51, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Paulo JN


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-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 14:09, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

--Pi zero (talk) 20:51, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Paulo JN II


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User talk:Ecksii

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 14:20, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Ecksii


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User talk:Razmasood

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title: User talk:Razmasood


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--Pi zero (talk) 20:42, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jose Afonso JN


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-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 15:02, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Rkpradhan


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title: User talk:Justo Jamba


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--Pi zero (talk) 18:07, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:RachelKershner6


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-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 16:59, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Aleksey Lepilin


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title: User talk:Polyushkopolye


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-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 18:39, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Lynne52E8678


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title: User talk:Sergio Giuno


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title: User talk:Pereira Killer


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-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 22:47, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Warpseed


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title: User talk:Boawais7


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User talk:EdgarAngola

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 00:48, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:EdgarAngola


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User talk:Huangyao

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title: User talk:Huangyao


text:
Wikinews:Water cooler/policy/archives/2017/October

Requesting conflict resolution
We could use some conflict resolution over at US immigration ban. Policy concerns deal with who counts as the article's first major contributor. Short version: One party created an article but did not add any text or content. About twelve hours later, a second party added text and sources and hit "review." The first party blanked the article because they wanted to write it themselves. Please come and give your thoughts. Darkfrog24 (talk) 11:25, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The person who submitted the article explicitly said not to suggest the article to them, and I wanted to write in my style, cover the things which I could not, and I could not complete it before when I was supposed to sleep, I was working on another article which failed the review, and that was unplanned. Besides, the person to "hit the review" had previously said: So let the creator decide the fate. This is the second time someone has written the article that I had created -- both the times where I could not write it on time since I also have to sleep. That time I did not blank it, for I could not have written it on time, this time, since I have been editing from my phone, it is not possible to do it without the blank page. acagastya PING ME! 11:32, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Here is the context for my "he who hits 'create'" comment: I was trying to cheerfully engage a colleague in collaborative work with a rhyme. In that case, Ezekiel had already written a good chunk of the article, which I expanded.  In the current case, the article was nothing but a title and I wrote the whole thing.  I don't see how my asking one editor "Would you like to be the one to hit the review button?" is relevant to whether another editor should blank out my work wholesale.
 * We should consider whether or not we need to establish a "Mine! I'm going to write this so don't you do it!" system, but I feel that even then, blanking out other people's work rather than expanding or changing it is not the answer.  It leads to bad feelings. Darkfrog24 (talk) 16:48, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * So here are my two cents. I started writing the article hours before you saved the edits. See those photos. I started working on it last night. You would not understand the trouble when I have to use cellphone to edit Wikinews, which I was doing this morning. By blanking, I was making space to write the content. It wasn't that I was not going to re-add your content. I needed things to be empty for time being. But thanks to mikemoral, I could not do it on time. It was supposed to be finished before the lunch time in India, but it went till evening because I lost the revision twice, first due to mikemoral, then due to your reverts. acagastya PING ME! 17:04, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * 1 2 3. acagastya PING ME! 17:06, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
 * And what your comment has anything to do here? Well, when I created the article, and I had time to write it, then leave it for me. The only other time where I was not able to do it was when I was literally booked with other articles and things in real life and the article was on the third day. acagastya PING ME! 17:08, 19 October 2017 (UTC)

What is freshness and how should we apply that standard to science news?
What is freshness? What does it do for the reader?

I feel that if we answer this question, we can come up with a rule of thumb that will help us assess the freshness of science news. My take is that while the two-day limit works great for politics, sports and other current events, a lot of perfectly fresh science news gets excluded just because of the way the publication process works. EDIT: Like a reverse loophole.

On one of the first science articles I wrote for Wikinews, the reviewer said "Hey, this study was performed last year, so it's not fresh." The study had indeed been performed months earlier but it had been published more recently. We ended up using publication of the study as the focal event. For science, this is normal. Peer review takes time. Many scientists keep their work a secret until publication. They're worried about being scooped by rival labs or turned down by journals who won't bother publishing something that people already know about. There's another lag between publication in for-scientist journals and the mainstream newspapers, magazines and websites that we need for independent corroboration. Here's an example about a new discovery about nuclear fusion:

 * 1) Scientists collect data through September 2016 but don't get to analyze it until early 2017, at which point they identify some nuclear fusion reactor fuel that works ten times as well as anything before. Eureka, clean energy!
 * 2) Nature Physics publishes the study June 19, 2017.
 * 3) Popular Mechanics and other mainstream outlets write about it around August 28, 2017.

The important thing, the actual news, was the discovery in early 2017. But these findings could not have been published on Wikinews because the study and independent corroboration were published more than two days apart. This gap is unusually wide, but mainstream outlets routinely write about studies published the previous week or month. They don't think that these scientific findings are too old to write about. What we need to know is why not and whether those standards could be adapted for use on Wikinews.

Has anyone here worked in news on a professional level or gone to journalism school? What standards could mainstream outlets be using and is there a good way to adapt them for our use?

and have also spoken on this issue and I'd like to invite both of them to summarize their views for new contributors. Darkfrog24 (talk) 13:29, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * while there is no clear policy about "three day" freshness rule, it has been the trend. I would cut down to 48 actual hours, if I could. But until then, the focal point of any scientific article is when was the study/discovery announced. The clock won't stop ticking. If you have to write, write and get it published within three days of that happening. Anything else is not welcomed. acagastya PING ME! 13:56, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * All kinds of event don't become news until well after they happen. E.g. a political scandal occurs but is covered up: the news event is it being uncovered. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 15:25, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * This is all good and lively discussion. But: start with our policies first. Read them clearly and see if that helps. As Pi Zero likes to say: We focus on discrete news EVENTS here. Focus on that word: 'Events'. I love science. I love scholarly journals.....always have. But keep it simple: What is your source? Is it reputable? When did they report the 'story'? 'The Journal of Unicorn Psychiatry published an article on the use of anti-psychotics for rainbow loving horses on .' That's fresh, focused on a discrete event. The PUBLISHING OF THE STORY is the event.....(not automatically newsworthy, but it might be). Again:What is your source? When did the event happen -- and how does that plug into when the article was published? Yes....we love to focus on THE EVENT here....and that's great. But the 'tallying up of the findings' might've happened 7 months ago. In most instances, that can be OK.....but you have to focus your writing on THE EVENT. I often ask myself here: what is the event? When did it happen? Is that event unto itself newsworthy? With OR, we're known to give an extra inch here and there time-wise, but just only. Hope this helps. --Bddpaux (talk) 17:02, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I haven't run into any cases of people considering the scholarly journals, Eurekalert or mainstream sources unreliable for science news, so we can probably skip that issue.
 * Interesting point, Bddpaux. Thing is, "the event is the announcement" feels like a workaround we came up with to avoid having to write a freshness rule just for science, and now that you point it out to me, I realize the reviewers don't treat the announcement as the event.  The meat of the articles I've written has almost always been the discovery itself.  The article isn't "this research was announced and people who didn't already know about it went 'wow'/'oh no'/other" or "Discovery X was announced at Conference Y and the audience made reaction Z." Instead, I write, "this research was announced and here's what it was, who did it and why it matters." Contrast: When Deep Throat announced his real identity, the articles about it focused on "a big secret has been revealed just now and here's how people are reacting to it," NOT "an informant told Woodward and Bernstein about President Nixon."
 * No reviewer has ever rejected one of my science articles on the basis of "this focuses on the research itself instead of the announcement." I've gotten objections for not mentioning the announcement, but that's not the same thing. Darkfrog24 (talk) 19:17, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * There appears to be some misunderstanding. Reviewers certainly do treat the announcement as the focal event.  That's what I see Bddpaux saying.  And if your article is rejected for not mentioning the announcement, the reason that's a problem is because it leaves the article without a specific fresh focus.  --Pi zero (talk) 20:41, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Terminology aside, I've been writing articles that are about research and merely mention the announcement. Wikinews articles about things other than science usually don't do that.  The real focus of the article, which I've called the meat, is almost always something that didn't happen that long ago.  A science article about a recently published study about research completed six months back doesn't seem to check anyone's "no" box on Wikinews.  Can you put words to why not?
 * I'm also trying to work out why National Geographic and newspapers keep writing an articles that lack the "specific fresh focus" as you've defined it, and no one tells them "That isn't news." Darkfrog24 (talk) 01:26, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

No, obituaries are similar to it. Except for the tributes (that too, not always), every single thing of that article is what that person did months, years or probably decades ago. And why we are not telling them it isn't news? A) NatGeo hasn't established themselves as dedicated news organisation and B) I don't work for them or read those articles to tell them. If it were The Independent, I tweet them why is some shit they have published, newsworthy? But they don't care. And I ended up unfollowing them. acagastya PING ME! 01:35, 2 September 2017 (UTC) And by the way, telling when the specific story happened would be the first thing one learns in journalism course. If a news article's first para reads "Frogs are not exactly the cultural exemplars of good looks, as the famous fairy tale, The Frog Prince, reminds us. But the newly discovered Nasikabatrachus bhupathi could set the bar a couple of notches lower – or higher — depending on your aesthetic sensibility.", the organisation is a mediocre news organisation, (yes, The Hindu, the only advantage you have is the other Indian news orgs are worse than you) and the author is an idiot. acagastya PING ME! 01:43, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

In the car this morning, I finally thought of the word I need to use: patch. It's not a cheat; it's not lip service; using the date of journal publication reminds me of a temporary, somewhat artificial way of connecting two things. Acagastya is referring to the article about some purple frogs that I drafted recently. It was also subject to the timing problem, but the reviewer had other things to say as well that don't have to do with the freshness-in-science-news issue. Acagastya, do you want me to find a better example? Say an article in a major newspaper about a study published more than a few days earlier. Darkfrog24 (talk) 01:58, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Fresh is 'less than 2-3 days ago'. For science, time of publication is OK as a focal event in my experience. For an interview, it is within 2-3 days of the last interview question being answered, for me personally, as this is when I start to prepare the article on-wiki (I didn't confirm this with anyone). What are other difficult cases? --Gryllida (talk, chat) 02:40, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
 * OR can be a very different case, if its original element is substantial enough, and full-blown interviews are a case in point. Usually an interview would last much longer than 2–3 days after the last question is answered.  We've never had so very many interviews published long after the event as to form specific standards, but the one time I can remember an interview going stale, as such, the call was made by the interviewer about a month after the interview had concluded (I honestly don't remember what the hold-up was that made it so late).  The most important date is when public revelation takes place, and serious OR is to start with something only we have, so — up to a point — OR carries its own event with it:  our date of publication is the date of public revelation freshness.  After a while, secondary effects, perhaps related broadly to relevance, build up enough to affect freshness, but in most cases that takes a lot more than 2-3 days to reach a critical level.  --Pi zero (talk) 11:40, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

 * your argument can not be based on what other media is doing. BRS's one of the original reports focused on how British media broke a rule by posting photos of victim/accused online, and the jury came to know about it. We don't follow them. Other websites paywall their content, mislead the readers, show advertisements, gives opinions, adds bias, publishes wardrobe malfunction, telecast what is trending on Facebook, or show how to use Google Maps, they even publish what UK's queen eats. These things would never find a place on Wikinews. acagastya PING ME! 06:24, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

I hadn't discussed this issue for a while until now. I found the freshness less clear yet too enforced. As a result, very little has gotten published. August of this year has gotten a little bit slower than of last year. Same for July of this year and of last year. I could create more articles. There have been several articles awaiting reviews yet with less than a few active reviewers. However, I can do so most likely when there are no articles under development and/or review. I don't want to burden reviewers with too many articles, do I? --George Ho (talk) 07:51, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

 * I have some thoughts on this. Science news is a little bit different from regular news because the initial study/results and the replication of that research might be years or decades apart, but they are not independent events. They are the same news story, just spread out over vast amounts of time. Normal news - even something like a hurricane - is driven by an initial event, and then updates to that event. Those can all be independent articles that reference each other.

 * Science news doesn't allow for that traditional approach, which is why no one *uses* that traditional approach on science news. Instead, organizations write multiple almost identical articles on the same science event, separated by significant amounts of time. Usually they'll write an article about the rumour that the research is happening (if it's interesting or controversial enough to warrant that of course), then an article when the white paper on a piece of research is released, then another similar article on the journal article, then another similar article about public reaction (if applicable), then a series of similar articles about replication research (if this happens, which sometimes it doesn't). These articles are spread out over enormous amounts of time, and don't deal with new events, but rather with the veeeeerrrrryyyyy, veeeeerrrrrryyyyy, slllooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwww progression of a single piece of research from start to finish. There is no "new news" by traditional standards for those articles, they're just reporting on the current status of the glacially paced research. It's kind of like you're writing an article on someone walking through a time dilation field. Having a new article every month saying "they took another step" wouldn't be "new news", or even much of an update, it would just be reporting on the progress of a slow moving person crossing a room.

 * That's why everyone reports on science news with a different standard of "new". Glacial. Pace. Of. Progress.

 * (A good example of this in practice is the green energy and transportation news website Electrek, which will write tons of articles about different parts of the same event (or even news conference), with each article focusing on a different specific detail, and linking to the others.) — Gopher65talk 17:28, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
 * less than 2-3 days ago
 * Yes, but the question is "What is happening in those three days?" I've seen a couple people say "X number of days is too old," but 1) the mainstream newspapers don't seem to think that makes a science article too old to publish and 2) If we figure out what freshness is qualitatively, we might be able to find a rule that works better for science news. If it's that "2-3 days is how long it takes for most people to have already heard about it," then we could still write about a scientific discovery that was published more than 3 days ago if it hadn't had any mainstream buzz yet.
 * So I'm asking what freshness feels like to you. What does it do for you?  What makes a one-day-old article good and three-day-old one crummy?
 * Acagastya makes a good point in that we might find that the criteria used by other publications/tailored to science does not suit Wikinews' needs, but we should still try to define those needs.
 * Do you think that Wikinews shouldn't write about science news, should accept that it will publish less science news than other venues (what we're doing now and it's not like that's the end of the world), or that we should work something out so we can publish more science news than we are now? Darkfrog24 (talk) 15:55, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I see that Pi Zero made another good point: The most important date is when public revelation takes place
 * But just because a study was published in a professional journal doesn't mean the public knows about it. Any member of the public might be able to access it if they already knew it was there, but that's not the same thing. (Think  having to get past a "beware of jaguar" sign to find the city plans about his house being demolished.) Darkfrog24 (talk) 15:59, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
 * There are two points you raised:
 * 1. "Should we write science news: Wikinews should write science news, but it should create a different standard for that news than that which is applied to celebrity gossip or ambulance chasing disaster stories. Those are a different category of reporting, and should be treated as such (I think that everyone should do this, not just Wikinews).
 * 2. "The most important date is when public revelation takes place" <--- that's a big part of the problem with the way science journalism has been done since the collapse of traditional print media. Non-science journalists take a break from their gossip columns (you know, the ones that actually make money for their bosses like "Use These 10 Tricks to BECOME a Better Lover!") and write a science piece. And given the training they've had, and what little time they have to work with, they often do not too bad a job. The issue is that science is a rolling, iterative process. That preliminary study is useless without the context of all the other research being done in the same field. You can't just report "Coffee causes/prevents cancer!" as the conclusion to a study, because that single study is but one data point, and unimportant by itself. You cannot draw conclusions from one study. And given that a p-value of 0.05 (95% confidence rate) is the standard for publication in most research journals, even a quick glance at this issue will tell you that 1/20 studies will automatically give a false positive. (It's actually much worse that that, which is nicely put into words by this physicist/youtuber: "Is Most Published Research Wrong?". Another amusing (though more simplistic) look at this problem comes from xkcd: Significant.)

 * Standard news publishes one story about each update. But that doesn't work well for science news, because of the timescales of a topic of research. Each study is a single datapoint in a best fit line on research. If you publish a story about each interesting result, you get the problem seen in the xkcd comic I linked above: lots and lots of false articles that are published only because the journalist doesn't have a ****ing clue what is actually going on. No retractions are ever published (because the story was "true"), and you end up with a slew of inaccurate or outright incorrect articles polluting Google Search results, filling the head of the public at large with crap that isn't true. But it's "science" as far as they're concerned, so they believe whatever they were inclined to believe in the first place.

 * There are several alternatives:
 * 1. Write a series of articles (and make clear that you're writing a series of articles) about a single topic. Because of the fluid nature of community driven new sites (like us), this is very difficult. Contributors come and leave all the time, so how do you make sure a series of articles happens?
 * 2. Wait until replication research is done before publishing a controversial result. This can take months, or even years, but it saves you from the issues listed above.

 * There are others, but I can't think of them right now;). — Gopher65talk 00:23, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Wow that is a lot of thought into this. Do your two alternatives apply to what you think pro journalists should do or to what you think we should do?
 * I've been dancing around it but I'll state it explicitly: I don't scour the professional journals looking for things that would make good Wikinews articles. Instead, I look for press releases and mainstream news outlets that cover them (which, since we need independent corroboration, I'd have to do anyway).  That means I don't find out about most of these discoveries right away either. Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:59, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

Acagastya's comments to Czar below have brought up a new element: Freshness also involves getting the article in before the mainstream media does it too many times. That's probably not an issue with science news, but it should be incorporated into any unified freshness theory we come up with. Darkfrog24 (talk) 21:45, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
 * How best to cover science is a real and interesting issue. There is no issue about freshness of synthesis articles; we already have a "unified freshness theory", it's been stable for many years, and much of the key stuff is currently documented at WN:Newsworthiness.  Notice that last big comment by Gopher (about which you remarked "Wow that is a lot of thought in this") says nothing about freshness.  It would be neither necessary nor desirable to fudge/complicate the freshness criteria; they're part of the simple scheme we work within.  Fudging the simple scheme is a distraction from the fundamentals (cf. that comment by Gopher). I can also see I could spend a bunch of time writing up comments on various points in that comment of Gopher's, a great temptation which, of course, I don't dare let myself spend the time to indulge atm. :-S  --Pi zero (talk) 22:15, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
 * first of all, that is not what I meant or hinted. It is not even in this context. But now that you have mentioned it: it is one way. Freshness window can be narrower for some articles, but it can not grow wider, for a synthesis. acagastya PING ME! 03:58, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Well now I'm working on an article whose study is scheduled for publication a month and a half from now. But I don't think it would still be considered fresh then considering it's hitting the mainstream news this week.
 * WN:Newsworthiness focuses on events. Scientific studies don't really have an event the way political and sports and disaster news do. Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:33, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * The announcement of the study is an event. Just like the announcement of someone’s death. And as I said earlier, both of them focuses on what happened in the study/what X did in their life. Both being old content but that is what it is about. 103.254.128.50 (talk) 20:42, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
 * That dyslexia article, or smallest star discovery or this article with poorly framed headline -- all of these got media attention within three days of the announcement. So did those tech news articles like WPA2 or SHA-1. So, why should we increase the duration of freshness? If something did not get light until three days, it is possible that it is not newsworthy. (Don't come up with the announcement of Masaya Nakamura's death, which was announced after a week. In that case, the announcement becomes news) Increasing freshness window is just an attempt to allow us being lazy, and degrade our standards. We should be trying to deliver news as soon as possible, not the opposite. I would prefer a maximum of 48 hour freshness window, considering the time zone difference, and making an agreement with UTC clock. acagastya PING ME! 09:55, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Media upload and abuse filter
In response to recent abusive media uploads (porn, copyvio etc.), I've created a new abuse filter: Special:AbuseFilter/26. It's not enabled yet, it simply tags the files as 'Potential Media Abuse'. When the next wave of file upload vandalism comes in, I'll tweak the filter some more and then we can turn it on to try and catch this stuff automatically. —Tom Morris (talk) 11:27, 24 October 2017 (UTC)


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Wikinews:Water cooler/policy/archives/2017/September

enwp straw poll on current events policy
Wanted to give a heads up that the English Wikipedia (enwp) is discussing how to handle its enthusiastic coverage of new current events. We tend to collect articles on anything that gets a flash of news coverage, which once all reporting is in, guarantees an eventual (mired) discussion as to whether the topic is fit for an encyclopedia. Perhaps there would be a better way to transfer this otherwise useful content for a Wikinews-style report? If some Wikinews regulars could chime in (see discussion section) on how the two projects may work better together—namely how we can transfer the editor interest your way—we could use the input: w:Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)  czar  03:15, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * we have incompatible licence. acagastya PING ME! 03:49, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * If you have never edited Wikinews, you might not be knowing the various stages of a news article. First, it is written. It has a develop tag. Once the author feels the article is ready and an experienced editor should review the article, they add review tag. An experienced editor will check for newsworthiness, verify the article, check if the style is correct, whether it is neutral (Wikipedia and Wikinews’s neutrality differs), confirm if the article is not a blatant copyright violation and after all of these, either the article is published, or the article needs improvements (tasks). A published article will go to archive one day, but if the article could not be published within three days of it happening, it is not “relatively new” to be news. It is stale and will be deleted eventually. Even if we had compatible licenses, the rate at which articles are submitted for review should match the rate at which articles are published. With more and more articles piling up the review queue, is hard to get everything done. Someone commented that Wikinews doesn’t do solid news. (Or something like “most important stories”) it is not like that. First, editors write what they like to cover about. Second, those “important stories lose their freshness real quick, because the main stream media covers it extensively. If you think nobody wrote about Mexico’s earthquake, or Barcelona’s attacks, or Manchester bombing, or these hurricanes — you are wrong. Editors wrote about it. Only: we could not match the rate at which we had articles submitted and the articles published. And as I mentioned, if the article was ever marked stale, it would be deleted. So the only record of an article ever been created is the “articles created” link at the bottom of contributions page of each editor. If the editors at Wikipedia choose to spare some time and write articles, it would be good. But. Sometimes, on Wikinews, we don’t have articles to review, other times, the review queue is crowded with dozens of articles. That doesn’t mean we don’t want people to write news articles. We want them to write good ones, so reviewing them is easy. Pizero is working on improving how to review an article easily and effectively. Their goal is also to make it easier for anyone to write it. But again, blindly importing content would be violation of CC licenses. Anyone who wishes write an article is welcome. acagastya PING ME! 04:17, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks, . I understand that the content from enwp may not fit at all (both for reasons of license and freshness). The enwp discussion is mostly speculative (it's a straw poll) about how enwp should handle articles more fit to be news stories than encyclopedia articles. The answer may be that Wikinews editors aren't interested in adopting that content, but I wanted to reach out in case the answer was that Wikinews would be interested in, say, Wikipedia encouraging editors to instead import and submit through Wikinews rather than as Wikipedia articles. Probably best discussed at the enwp discussion, in any case. czar  04:48, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I did not say we are not interested. What I am saying is it is not possible due to technical reasons. Any editor is welcome here. But they must know the basic idea of how a news article is written. Of course, we are here to help. acagastya PING ME! 05:35, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

 * see comments in the next section on "bottleneck and vision".


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Role account?
Could you clarify the nature of this account? It sounds, from the note on the |user page, like a role account. We don't allow those, as a matter of policy. --Pi zero (talk) 16:18, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

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