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Wikinews:Water cooler/policy/archives/2017/November

bottleneck and vision
As suggested in Everyone's favorite news site and elsewhere, I believe that Wikimedia foundation projects can grow to play a major role in reducing political corruption and the Balkanization of the international body politic and increasing the prospects for peace and rapid, more stable and more broadly shared and sustainable economic growth.

In Wikinews a primary bottleneck is the number of qualified reviewers.

This is manifested in the difficulty of authors (speaking from personal experience) to get timely answers to questions about why an article wast not considered "ready".

I believe that with a better structure, Wikinews could attract thousands, maybe millions, of volunteer reviewers that could attract volunteers all over the world to write from a neutral point of view with appropriate documentation. To handle the volume of material that people all over the world want to write, we'd need "local editions" and "back pages", probably approved by “local” and “associate reviewers”. Such "associate reviewers" could be empowered to recommend particularly well written articles of broad interest to the "full reviewers" and "administrators" for consideration for publication on the "front page" that currently publishes less than one article per day.

I've said repeatedly, e.g., on "Everyone's favorite news site", that everyone who tries to post something on Wikinews should get a timely response and help with posting something somewhere about that. If the person is willing to produce something written from a neutral point of view with reasonable documentation, that should be enough for publication on "back pages" or some "local edition".

Otherwise, they should be referred to to-be-developed projects like "Wikisocial" or "Wikiblog", that would include efforts to match people with contrary perspectives to work through their differences with a rule that requires treating others with respect, which means blocking obvious profanity and castigating personal attacks, etc.

In particular, for "local / back pages", no screen for general interest should be applied. My favorite example is a boring article about a city council meeting, whose very publication would still be very useful in putting public officials on notice that someone is watching them. An example of the need for this is the City of Bell scandal: Bell, CA, USA, is a city of roughly 35,000 in Los Angeles County. In 2010 they made national news, because the City Manager was the most highly paid public servant in the US as far as anyone knew, with total compensation over $1 million per year, more than double that of the President of the US. Property taxes were outrageous, and the city was near bankruptcy. The local newspaper died around 1999, and the City Manger effectively said, “Wow: The watchdog is dead. Let's have a party!”

Many local chapters of the League of Women Voters have “observer corps”, who attend public meetings of local governmental bodies and write summaries of their observations for their regular newsletters.

Wikinews could provide a platform for more extensive and more available reports of this nature.

Some reports like this may attract few readers -- if any. However, they could still be valuable, because they reduce the motivation for self serving actions of public officials.

Large numbers of volunteers are coming to Wikinews, eager to contribute. In the 163 days between 2017-04-28 and 2017-10-08, my copy of the counts at https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikinews indicates that Wikinews received 8,652 submissions, averaging 53 per day, and published 142 articles, less than one per day.

I think it's fairly safe to assume that those 8,652 submissions were submitted by something close to 8,652 different people. To the extent that this is accurate, it means that on the average day during that period, 52 new people tried to offer an article to Wikinews and were pushed away.

I believe this represents a huge opportunity: With the right structure / rules for recruiting and qualifying reviewers and contributors, Wikinews could become bigger than Wikipedia -- and in so doing could make a major contribution to reducing political corruption and violent conflict while also increasing the rate of improvement in the political economy generating faster, more stable and more broadly shared economic growth.

If Wikinews reviewers and admins can find a way develop rules and structure that retain and teach more of these potential contributors about writing from a neutral point of view with adequate documentation, it could make major contributions to improving the quality of public debate on all kinds of issues:
 * Reducing political corruption.
 * Making it harder for xenophobes to succeed with divide and conquer rhetoric that often stampedes too many groups into violent conflict over misunderstandings that Wikinews could help bridge.

For more on this, see the Wikiversity articles on Everyone's favorite news site, Net neutrality and 'Restoring Internet freedom', and Winning the War on Terror.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by DavidMCEddy (talk • contribs) 16:09, 9 October 2017 (UTC)

 * I mean no personal offense to you, but this stuff is not based on understanding of Wikinews. It really looks to me like you have an answer you want, and are inventing stuff to support it.  (That's an extremely common pattern in the world today, in its radical form I've been known to call it "opinion-based mindset", and I see combatting it as a key value of Wikinews.)  Eventually you get to the point of invoking statistics to support what you're saying (not just lies or damned lies, but statistics :-) ).  Statistics are useless unless preceded by deep insight into the system being studied.  The point at which the above first runs off the rails is the second paragraph (the first seems too vague to object to), when it says "In Wikinews a primary bottleneck is the number of qualified reviewers."  You'd have to be intimately familiar with an immense amount of subtle project dynamics to qualify to make calls about primary bottlenecks and such, and truthfully you don't know the project nearly that well.  Here's a tip:  that bottleneck isn't primary.  It's not the root of the problem.  I strongly suspect you're missing what the purpose of the whole project workflow is — what the nature of our output is — and without that one cannot make meaningful judgements about how well it works, let alone what is needed to make it work better.  --Pi zero (talk) 16:47, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
 * I didn't read David M's big ol' post (I might some day but not right now) but I did read yours, Pi zero. I'm curious: If you don't think that qualified reviewers are the bottleneck, or "limiting reagent," as I called it when you and I discussed it, then what do you think the root of the problem really is?  I am asking because your comments on matters like this tend to be interesting. Darkfrog24 (talk) 04:12, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay, I read David M's post. I feel that using project Wiki for political purposes, even political purposes that seem good and noble and right to you—it seems that you want to rescue journalism and use it to keep the government honest—is highly likely to backfire.  Something similar is happening on Wikipedia.  The world might need a watchdog group of the kind you describe, but it also needs a place that can be trusted to compile, organize, and summarize the whirlwind of information available to people today and do so in a politically neutral way.  That's where Project Wiki is supposed to be and sometimes it manages to do it. Darkfrog24 (talk) 04:15, 20 October 2017 (UTC)

 * ,, : I will here try to summarize my concern and vision more succinctly: The US “Government Organization Summary Report: 2012” reported “90,106 state and local governments ... in existence on June 30, 2012.”  If we scale that up to the world population of roughly 7.6 billion, that's roughly 2.2 million different political jurisdictions in the world.  Maybe it's 200,000 or 20 million.

 * Many of these could have their own edition of Wikinews -- and possibly multiple editions, one for each ethnic, cultural and linguistic group, religious congregation, etc., of a certain modest size within each jurisdiction.

 * New media and old are currently being managed to increase Balkanization (called “market segmentation” in business jargon) to benefit elites.

 * How can Wikinews be restructured so it can grow to support millions of local editions, each managed to improve fact checking and build bridges rather than walls?

 * DavidMCEddy (talk) 12:46, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Right now we just summarize the news for people. Without commenting on whether any part of Project Wiki should take part in sweeping social change, how do you see something like what you've planned interfacing with our existing mechanism? Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:05, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Just to note; "we just summarize the news" is not really true. On one hand, synthesis is not just summary; amongst other things, we strive to make our synthesis more neutral than the sources (the exact opposite of adding commentary).  On... well, an other hand, synthesis is not all we do, although it often feels like it since synthesis is our most common type of article.  --Pi zero (talk) 16:33, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

 * I do not have all the answers, but each article could be coded for "front page" if it met your standards for primary distribution, and would be "back page" material if it seemed to be written from a neutral point of view with adequate documentation and showed appropriate respect for others but may not have met your other criteria.
 * Each "back page" article could be further geocoded and offered to users who request "back page" Wikinews based in part on the goelocation that interests them.
 * A system like this would obviously require some new software. However, it could probably be built on top of something like Google Earth fairly easily.  DavidMCEddy (talk) 23:04, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

it is not a neutral approach. Nobody has the right to determine which event happening in what part of the country is more important than others. acagastya PING ME! 05:49, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

 * I would not go that far. A cute picture may become a Facebook post but will rarely make the front page of the New York Times.
 * Over 50 times as many articles are submitted to Wikinews as are published. Why are the other 49+ not published?
 * Each of those 49+ failed to meet at least one of Wikinews' rules. But why was the problem not corrected?
 * I cannot answer that question for everyone, but I can answer it for myself: If I remember correctly, I've had two articles published and two rejected.  The two rejected were because I did not understand the feedback I got.  In the first case, I failed to see and understand some of the feedback I got until the article was stale and no longer news.  In the second case, I asked for clarification -- repeatedly -- and never got it.
 * I believe that most people can be trained to write from a neutral point of view, documenting their sources, and treating others with respect -- even when they think the others don't deserve respect. Many people make extreme statements.  However, many of those would be willing to listen to alternative perspectives.  There are a few vociferous Internet trolls that need to be ignored, but I think those are a tiny percent of humanity.
 * Do you know any research on the percent of people who will NOT listen to alternative perspectives? The best research I know on this is Thining, Fast and Slow, and that does not give a direct answer to this question.  In my own experience, I've seen people who I thought were ideologues become more reasonable over time.  DavidMCEddy (talk) 14:45, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The things going on this project are very dynamic and every case will be different from the other, . Let's say for example, it is possible that while you were waiting for explanation, a reviewer thought it would be better to attend some other articles in the review queue, else both the article would lose freshness. It is possible that some articles were never completed on time -- I created some articles but I never got time to write about it. Last month, I tried to help other's articles, which would not have met all five requirements (and all five have to meet. If the article fails in even one, and if it is published, it beats the ideology, philosophy and goal of Wikinews) otherwise. So, if an article manages 3/5 or even 4/5, it is not acceptable. We aren't lowering our standards. Less number of articles is okay. Poor quality articles is not. One of the reasons I am on Wikinews is because I do not like the other news orgs who publish poor quality clickbaits, opinionated, biased, inaccurate, partially true articles. acagastya PING ME! 16:07, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

 * Can we make a distinction between articles that are factual and appropriately nuanced (not opinionated, biased, inaccurate, only partially true -- or at least inadequately documented) but may not meet other criteria, e.g., problems with the lede, clarity, concision, etc.?
 * One simple example: I'm somewhat involved with a local chapter of the League of Women Voters.  They have an "observer corps" of people who attend meetings of local governmental bodies and write notes.  For an example see from the bottom of p. 4 to p. 7 of The Voter newsletter of the League of Women Voters of Johnson County, KS, USA.
 * This section includes seven short articles by nine different people. I did not write anything for this edition, but I have written for them in the past.  My reports have been edited to maybe a quarter of what I submitted.  I think articles like that could be posted first to Wikinews and later summarized in this newsletter.  However, before I suggest that to them, I think I'd want to see the outright rejection rate well under 50 percent of submissions -- or serious documentation of why it's not.  DavidMCEddy (talk) 16:44, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

 * There were some things I was thinking, this morning, I should say to you in this thread, that I felt were going to come out rather harsh but needed to be said. Then I looked earlier in the thread and discovered I'd already said them, probably more eloquently than I would have tried to do now.  Your suggestions go consistently badly astray because you don't understand Wikinews (e.g., our workflow, or our neutrality).  You're trying to start with assertions about what we should be doing, and then we're presumably supposed to either agree with you or try to fill in your knowledge one point at a time (not practical), instead of you starting by assuming you know nothing about the project, putting in time and effort to learn hands-on from scratch, and then later on working from a position of knowledge to think about improvements.  --Pi zero (talk) 17:25, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

 * I see two issues here: (a) the need and (b) how to respond to that need. If I devoted full time to Wikinews for several years, I might never learn enough of what and how you do things to be able to suggest changes that you thought were implementable.
 * Regarding the need, the Hewlett Foundation published a report recently on ANALYSIS OF PHILANTHROPIC OPPORTUNITIES TO MITIGATE THE DISINFORMATION/ PROPAGANDA PROBLEM: This and other sources note that Google and Facebook are making money from "increasing polarization and tribalism, thereby weakening our democratic systems." (p. 4)  This document summarizes interviewers with leading experts on this issue, one of whom said, "I think [Google and Facebook] are willing to make choices to deal with this, but it needs to be an external party that holds them accountable." (p. 18) I'd like to work on two initiatives in this regard:
 * I think the Wikimedia Foundation is ideally placed to lead experiments in developing alternative social media running free open source software (FOSS) to help build bridges rather than walls and encourage companies like Facebook and Google to use their software or modify it in any way to fit their purpose. The Wikimedia Foundation could likely be able to fund experiments like this via grants from sources like the Hewlett Foundation.  I'm not well known in the Wikimedia Foundation, but I attended at least one event in their headquarters in San Francisco a few years ago in addition to Wikimania 2017, and I might be able to facilitate the production of a successful grant application to get funding for this.
 * I currently live in the Greater Kansas City area. I've worked some with the Observer Corps of the League of Women Voters of Johnson County, KS;  this county is part of Greater Kansas City.  Last Friday, I had a discussion with one of the leaders in that group about what it might take to produce, e.g., an edition of Wikinews for Johnson County, KS, based largely on volunteer labor.  She expressed concerns that reminded me of some of Pi zero's comments about the difficulties of getting untrained volunteers to write from a neutral point of view with adequate documentation.  To be successful with something like this, we might need grant money for both software development and to pay professional journalism instructors to coach the volunteers in how to produce adequate reports on what they see.  I think there are several charitable foundations like the Democracy Fund, to name only one, that would like to fund something like this -- both the software development and to pay the instructors / editors to manage this thing during an initial development period.  If we can produce something that helps increase voter turnout -- and especially if the local economy seems to improve with that -- that success can help us get support to replicate it elsewhere.
 * I'm not ready to start working on this immediately, but I might be in the next few months. If successful, it could help deal constructively with the tribalism problems mentioned in the "Analysis of Philanthropic opportunities ..." mentioned above.
 * Thanks for your support of Wikinews.
 * Comments? DavidMCEddy (talk) 04:05, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry to be blunt. What I see here is you imagining you know what Wikinews is and what its problems are, and arrogantly talking about how difficult it would be for you to figure out what we're doing wrong and devise a course of action you could convince me was implementable.  But you're mistaken from the start — I see no sign that you comprehend what Wikinews is, without which you can't see what we're doing right, and can't devise a proposal for Wikinews that's even sensible; whether it's implementable isn't even a cogent question.  It's not beyond possibility you could do great harm through blundering in ignorance, but I don't see how a positive outcome is reachable if you are making zero attempt to learn any of what you need to understand because you're convinced you already know.  --Pi zero (talk) 05:26, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * That last post of mine sounded rather harsh to me, and I apologize for the tone. I admit to being concerned about the problem. It's interesting to me that you heard things from your local LWV that sounded similar to things I've been saying (I've heard a mix of wise and unwise positions from our local LWV up here in central Massachusetts, too). --Pi zero (talk) 12:51, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Regarding that report from the Hewlett Foundation, it should in principle be possible to go through that report and explicate how Wikinews relates to various aspects of it, like 'democratization' and gatekeepers and whatnot. Bottom line, Wikinews is way ahead of the curve on that stuff.  We are well along on the trail of answers to questions that that Hewlett report is just starting to ask, and that the Wikipedian community mindset doesn't admit as questions.  One  here is that we seek to teach individuals, both by example and hands-on, to assess where information comes from and to build a worldview starting with objective reality.  --Pi zero (talk) 15:11, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

 * Thanks. On 2017-10-19 I analyzed all the edits on the 10 articles then featured on en.wikinews.  I counted 254 references to Pi zero out of 442 total mentions.  That was 57% of the mentions.  Acagastya got 30% of the mentions, 70% of those that were not Pi zero.  Darkfrog24 got 9%, 67% of those that were neither Pi zero nor Acagastya.  (I say "mentions," because I searched the history for the names of the contributors.  This gave me a few more than the total number of edits, because that counted both your contributions and the times that your name appeared in the brief summaries.)
 * I also noticed that Pi zero was the only one of the Administrators whose name appeared in that list.
 * I'd like to survey the other 19 Administrators with questions something like the following:
 * To what extent are you concerned about "increasing polarization and tribalism ... weakening our democratic systems", as discussed, e.g., in the Hewlett Foundation report on ANALYSIS OF PHILANTHROPIC OPPORTUNITIES TO MITIGATE THE DISINFORMATION/ PROPAGANDA PROBLEM (esp. p. 4)?
 * What, if anything, might the Wikimedia Foundation and projects like Wikinews do to help ameliorate this problem and perhaps turn it into an opportunity? (If the level of conflict continues to escalate, governments all around the world will act in ways that may be counterproductive or at best suboptimal.  Governments all over the world are already using these problems to justify blocking content they don't like -- and some are using the Internet to find and persecute potential political opponents.  The Hewlett Foundation report mentioned above notes that Europeans are considering measures that could negatively impact the future of democracy worldwide.  The Hewlett Foundation believes that major philanthropic organizations like theirs might be able to intervene in ways that might turn this problem into an opportunity.  I agree, and I think the the Wikimedia Foundation is ideally placed to play a major role in this.)
 * What do you think? I'm not ready to start this survey right now but soon, perhaps.  Thanks, DavidMCEddy (talk) 15:27, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Three thoughts occur to me, atm.
 * I'm not sure what you think you're getting from those statistics on mentions and edits. I'm doing most of the review atm; but we knew that already.  Beware of statistics.
 * A "survey" of en.wn admins... I don't know what you think this would accomplish.
 * It sounds kind of like spamming all the admin accounts. (Well, okay, it does sound like spamming them.)
 * That list is immensely varied in nature. Some of them have the admin bit because they're associated with wikimedia software development.  Some of them are pretty inactive, and could (if we chose to pursue it) be de-sysop'd under our privilege expiry policy (the policy doens't require us to remove those privs, it merely empowers us to).
 * --Pi zero (talk) 20:30, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * ( four thoughts?)

Newby comments/suggestions
Hi all,

I'm a newby (2 months) so there's a lot I don't know and a lot of background information I don't have. I saw a Request for Comment (RfC?) on WikiNews at the Wikipedia Village pump (idea lab). The OP asked for suggestions on how to 'revive' WikiNews, for example by giving it more attention on the Wikipedia main page. I and others joined in the discussion. Perhaps my comments/suggestions (for what their worth) are relevant to this page. They would have been better appended to the previous discussion on bottleneck and vision but I try to avoid duplicating the same discussion in different places.

So this is just to let you know of the discussion at the Village pump and to invite you to comment either there or here. I'd be interested in any feedback.

Kind Regards,

Mike Mikemorrell49 (talk) 14:42, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, I think topics which are breaking news should in general be published sooner here. An example of today is Ratko Mladić' conviction to life imprisonment. Yesterday, there was the great news of Mugabe's resignation after 37 years of presidency. Yet nothing about all that can be found here. Instead, all this information goes immediately to Wikipedia (where it cannot be discussed in detail because Wikipedia is not a news site). De Wikischim (talk) 16:26, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm planning to write up Mugabe's resignation; have been checking Recent changes for someone else doing it first :-) Yngvadottir (talk) 16:39, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * (You may have noticed, when you asked infrastructure questions on Wikibooks I answered much more promptly; it's a basic property of Wikinews that we put most of our volunteer effort into day-to-day news production — because on Wikinews there is a deadline — and infrastructure happens much more slowly because of it.) Note, there is a lot of history between Wikinews and Wikipedia (I'm talking about the English-language projects, mostly). The most glaringly obvious technical difference is that on Wikipedia edits by anyone are instantly published, whereas on Wikinews nothing is published until rigorously vetted by authorized reviewers.  Some Wikipedians really hate Wikinews because of that, have made sure Wikipedia would never acknowledge Wikinews as a reliable source, and have blatantly (and sometimes subtly/underhandedly) tried to destroy Wikinews.  At the same time, many Wikinewsies are current or former Wikipedians, and most Wikipedians are friendly folks (most of them must be, or, imho, Wikipedia would not be able to function).  We've had no end of trouble, though, with Wikipedians who (even if friendly) have various misapprehensions about news, and about Wikinews. For years, Wikipedia Signpost was a hotbed of anti-Wikinews sentiment, and once upon a time they published a so-called "op-ed" there that basically said Wikinews is worthless crap.  We have no current axe to grind with Signpost (though I believe some of the anti-Wikinews faction are still there), nor with the author of the op-ed (with whom, as I recall, we later called truce); but I mention it for its historical significance.  We didn't respond on Wikipedia to the op-ed; perhaps we should have, but in my experience we could waste an infinite amount of time trying to sway the Wikipedian community, with no realistic chance of doing so, and meanwhile Wikinews would simply grind to a halt because we'd be pouring our volunteer time into talking to Wikipedians instead of into producing news.  Rumor has that an edit summary by an editor during the preparation of the op-ed explicitly mentioned beginning the strangling of Wikinews.  Taking advantage of the momentum from that op-ed, the anti-Wikinews faction successfully lobbied to remove the link to Wikinews that used to be at the bottom of ITN on the Wikipedia main page; and, just as one might expect, we did observe some decrease in random visitors from Wikipedia after that.  They then went on to nominate for deletion all of the templates for sister links from Wikipedia to Wikinews, on the grounds that Wikinews articles are worthless and it is a disservice to readers to provide links from the magnificent articles of Wikipedia to... well, you get the idea.  As I mentioned, though, there are lots of friendly folks on Wikipedia, and the mass-deletion of templates didn't happen. Now, as for what Wikinews needs to grow.  It's well to have some influx of new users, obviously we can't grow without that, but just because we're a volunteer project does not mean that all it takes to grow the project is to go out and advertise for more people to come volunteer effort here.  Wikinews has technical constraints that limit its dynamic equation, in fact after studying the situation here closely I concluded that the constants in that dynamic equation need to be tweaked, if its derivative is to be positive (i.e., growth).  There was a fork some years ago, of Wikinewsies who wanted to make review easier by, essentially, lowering standards so it wouldn't take as long to review.  The "hard news" Wikinewsies, maintaining that high standards are essential, stayed on Wikinews.  The fork project failed, imho because if there aren't high standards for getting published then there's no motive to get published either.  Anyway, I developed my own ideas about what is needed, technically, to make Wikinews work better, and I've come to believe that all the wikimedian sisters need the tools I'm developing; even Wikipedia needs them.  Unfortunately, I've also concluded that the Wikimedia Foundation has baked-in software design priorities that (with all good intentions; we've no shortage of those) do harm to the sisterhood by pushing in a different and incompatible direction from where I see we need to go.  So for five years or so I've been developing these tools, at the same time that I've been pouring time into review on Wikinews so the project continues while I'm trying to develop what it needs to make me unnecessary.  At least some of what I have in mind is described at User:Pi zero/essays/vision/sisters; atm I'm struggling with a low-level technical problem with the dialog tools that was pointed out to me by someone who has ported them to Spanish Wikinews, and beyond that, I'm starting on the very large task of figuring out high-level strategies for using the low-level tools. Hopefully, all of that may offer some degree of big-picture perspective on Wikinews's situation. --Pi zero (talk) 20:57, 24 November 2017 (UTC)


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Guatemalan president Jimmy Morales announces move of Israeli embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem

December 25, 2017 Yesterday, Guatemalan President announced via a Facebook post that his country is to move its embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. Guatemala became the first nation to follow the United States in making this decision. Earlier this month, United States president Donald Trump instructed the to move the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

Morales affirmed Guatemala has long supported Israel:, he wrote in the Facebook post.

On December 19, the United Nations voted on a resolution urging the U.S. to reconsider its decision. 128 countries voted in favor of treating decisions to change the status of Jerusalem as "null and void." Nine countries voted against the resolution, 35 countries abstained and 21 did not have a voting representative present. Trump threatened to reduce the amount of foreign aid sent to any nation that supported UN's resolution. He said, "They take hundreds of millions of dollars and even billions of dollars and then they vote against us [...] Well, we're watching those votes [...] Let them vote against us. We'll save a lot. We don't care." Guatemala, which receives funding from the U.S., was one of the nine nations to vote against the resolution.

Palestine claims part of the city,, as its own territory and Israel claims the entire city to be its capital. Israel came to control East Jerusalem as part of the but its legal sovereignty over it has not been recognized by any other nations.


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Talk:Guatemalan president Jimmy Morales announces move of Israeli embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem

Make protected
makeprotected 117.248.120.35 (talk) 09:38, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ by SVTCobra. 117.248.120.35 (talk) 10:13, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Idiom "Follow in the footsteps"
The expression "follow in the footsteps of" needs an "in the" but that's an easy fix. The issue is that it's kind of poetic and has connotations of a child imitating a parent or mentor, giving the implication that Wikinews expects countries to do this. I'm confident President Morales doesn't want his country to look like a protege of the United States. Darkfrog24 (talk) 13:59, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

East (City)
The construction East (Greenville) can mean "an eastern district of Greenville," "a district in Greenville merely called eastern (say because it used to be the east before the city grew)" or "a separate city east of Greenville." For that reason, I think the words saying that East Jerusalem is part of Jerusalem have earned the space they take up. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:01, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Commas
Please don't switch to British or non-English rules when the article is already written in American English and is internally consistent. I deliberately used the exact same placement as the source, The Star, so that no one's teeth need be set on edge. Sometimes I even go out of my way to find an extra source just so the article can be fully correct without annoying anyone on the team. Switching between British and American English does not give the reader the best experience, and it's such an easy fix. Darkfrog24 (talk) 05:47, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I used the Facebook post as the source, which is actually the primary source for announcement, not The Star. I have spoken about this before, when I review articles, the quotations must be how it appears in the primary source. •–• 06:05, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * In American English, even when quoting a primary sources, the comma must precede the closing quotation mark. Here is a source discussing the differences between British and American quotation processes:
 * I'll try to finagle things so that the punctuation is correct without interfering with your preferences, but please do not introduce errors into the article in this way next time. Darkfrog24 (talk) 13:04, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * As a reviewer, I have to see things remain truer to the actual source — let it be official statement or a tweet. I am not comfortable with allowing symbols that were not in the statement. •–• 14:16, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Evidently both of you were seeing the other as introducing an error, the difference being what kind of error. Style and information content. (After our long discussions at en.wp MOS talk, I moved past our respective positions, and past our reasons for our positions, to think about the origins of our differing priorities.) --Pi zero (talk) 14:28, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I think the three of us are pretty much talked out on this matter. You think that a comma constitutes information content and I find it part of the quotation process and that correct American English requires it.  I can show you more sources backing this up if you think seeing them again would help.  What I've been doing is 1) finding extra sources as I said above  even though strictly speaking they aren't necessary and 2) rewording so that the punctuation is both correct and consistent with the preferences of people who are not comfortable using American punctuation.  That might be our best bet for now: arrange the quote so that no one's teeth are set on edge.  But I must insist on not pulling out the punctuation that I or our professional sources have placed with such care.
 * I am inferring that you think I have my priorities backwards (I use "infer" deliberately). Here's where I'm coming from: I have witnessed the problem of poor punctuation leaving a bad impression on the reader, and I've seen loads of source material saying that commas must be placed this way.  However, I have never seen even one mistake or problem attributable to placing the comma inside the quotation mark, despite several stints of actively looking for them.  I've seen no reliable sources reporting such problems, and one reliable source, Chicago Manual of Style 15th 14th edition, actively says it's not a real problem.  So I'm addressing the boring problem that I've seen happen on a regular basis. Darkfrog24 (talk) 15:14, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Well... my reasoning above does not engage normative judgements about priorities. I see your priorities in the sorts of criteria you're applying; but I was merely remarking that atm I'm standing back from normative judgements to consider why some people have different priorities than others have (and I wasn't planning to get into the answer to that question, even though I've developed some some insights into it over the past thirty years or so, as it's hard to get more abstract that trying to discuss the nature of people's thought processes).  --Pi zero (talk) 16:24, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh believe me you feel others are uncomfortable because don’t use it. Since I have always studied the other style, reading The Giver was very odd, and I could not connect to the story properly. In any case, for me, it is how the source is. 223.180.28.13 (talk) 17:30, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * People who learn to read in American English often describe the same experience when reading something British. Neither system outperforms the other in that respect.  The upside is that then we all learn that there are multiple systems and how they work. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:38, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

just because one system allows something, I can't overrule what the official statement has, or has not. •–• 14:50, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Tucking in the comma does not constitute overruling what the official statement has or has not. It is understood that the comma, like the quotation marks themselves, is part of the quotation process.  It is normal, accepted, expected, and understood, much like how the reader does not assume that the original text necessarily had the same font or font size.  You will find that most professional style guides have lists of permissible changes that writers may make to direct quotes.
 * I don't have access to the AP Style Guide right now, but this style guide for Park Science and National Resource Year in Review, which is available online, offers a list of permissible changes on pages 20 and 21. It includes changing archaic spelling to modern, fixing obvious typographical errors, changing lowercase letters to capital under specific conditions, and several other things that I'm sure you'll find bigger in magnitude than a properly tucked-in comma.
 * I hope this puts your mind at ease that you do not have any ethical or journalistic responsibility to alter punctuation the way you have altered it in this article and can be considered to have a good-writing responsibility not to. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:30, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Darkfrog24, your priorities are built into your argument. For my part, it has no bearing on my position because I don't share those priorities.  I care about information content; style for me is merely a servant thereto.  (Btw, as a matter of curiosity, I have an AP style guide on my shelf, as well as a Chicago Manual of Style, both somewhat out-of-date; I'm not rushing to consult them on this point because what they say about it, though interesting and potentially useful, has no power to change my position.)  --Pi zero (talk) 22:53, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I don’t work for those companies to follow their guidelines. For me, changing one character is also altering the facts. Just like the tweet by spokesperson of Saudi Arabia’s embassy in the US had no space after period because she had reached 280 character limit. No matter how many links you share, every single byte of data is important for me and I would not deviate from that. We aren’t supposed to correct someone else’s typo, nor are we supposed to share something that was altered. There is a difference between those news organisations and Wikinews and this also is important. •–• 05:51, 29 December 2017 (UTC)


text: Comments:Guatemalan president Jimmy Morales announces move of Israeli embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem


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Russia: Runaway bus kills at least four in entrance to Moscow Metro station

December 26, 2017 Yesterday, at least four were killed and eleven were injured near the Metro station in Moscow, Russia, after a bus ran down the steps at the entrance, officials stated. According to an emergency services source reported through state news media, fifteen were injured, and five died in the incident.

The incident happened in an icy situation. The bus drove onto the pavement and down the steps leading to the station. The police reportedly arrested the driver. News agencies reported the driver was not under the influence of alcohol. The driver told investigators the bus suddenly moved, and although he tried to stop it, the brakes did not work. A reported emergency services source said the accident might be due to brake failure.

According to news agency, the bus was less than a year old. Moscow's mayor said he had ordered all Moscow buses to be inspected.


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Your edits
Are you sure you were editing the page you intended to? Nevertheless, I reverted your edits. --SVTCobra 06:47, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mihaniakash


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Talk:Guatemalan president announces move of Israeli embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem

makeprotected Protect the main space redirect. •–• 11:55, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Pi zero (talk) 15:18, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


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Talk:Guatemala moves Israeli embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem

makeprotected Protect the main space redirect. •–• 11:55, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Pi zero (talk) 15:19, 26 December 2017 (UTC)


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User talk:Manuel Ngola

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Talk:Russia: Runaway bus kills at least four in entrance to Moscow Metro station

make protected request
makeprotected Also, Runaway bus kills at least four in entrance to Moscow Metro station. Shoot, forgot to rename, but not a big problem, I think. •–• 13:45, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

 * This was already ✅ by User:Pi zero. --SVTCobra 17:08, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

Edit
edit-protected

Please add Category:Europe. Heavy Water (talk) 21:02, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. [24Cr][talk] 12:04, 3 June 2024 (UTC)


text: Comments:Russia: Runaway bus kills at least four in entrance to Moscow Metro station


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User talk:BridgetLeyva662

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UN General Assembly Vote on Status of Jerusalem
I am not sure if this helps, but, I think Jerusalem Post published an article that some nine countries are to move their embassies. Maybe that might interest you. link. •–• 14:23, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

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Israeli chess players barred at chess tournament in Saudi Arabia

December 27, 2017 On Sunday, vice-president of (FIDE) Israel Gelfer told Reuters that  for seven Israeli chess players "will not be issued" for a chess tournament in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA). The 2017 King Salman Rapid and Blitz World Championships from December 26 to December 30 in Riyadh is to go ahead without any changes, the vice-president said.

Spokesperson of the Saudi Arabian embassy in the US tweeted, "Related to the purported politicization of the International Chess Tournament hosted by Riyadh: the Kingdom has allowed the participation of all citizens.The exception is whereby KSA has historically not had diplomatic ties with a specific country-thus has maintained its policy."

Saudi Arabia does not recognise Israel. Despite their diplomatic tensions with Iran, Israel, and Qatar, FIDE tweeted they had "secured" visas for Qatari and Iranian chess players on Monday. In November, FIDE's deputy president Georgios Makropoulos told Reuters they were "making a huge effort to ensure that all players get their visas".

Speaking to Reuters, Israeli Chess Federation's spokesperson Lior Aizenberg said, "The event is not a world championship if they prevent chess players from several countries from taking part [...] Every chess player should have the right to participate in an event on the basis of professional criteria, regardless of their passports, their place of issue or the stamps they bear."

Moshe Shalev of the Israel Chess Federation said they were "thinking about suing the World Chess Federation".

About 180 chess players were to participate in the event. The total prize money of the tournament is US$2 million, with largest individual prize money about US$750 thousand.

In November, chess Grand Master tweeted, "To organize a chess tournament in a country where basic human rights aren't valued is horrible. Chess is a game where all different sorts of people can come together, not a game in which people are divided because of their religion or country of origin."

This is not the first time Israeli players have faced problems while playing in the Middle East nations. In October, Israeli were not permitted to wear the Israeli flag or symbols, or bear the country's name on their judo uniform for a judo grand slam in the United Arab Emirates. Israeli judokas had to compete without their national flag and the anthem of the was played at the medal ceremony when Israeli athlete  won a gold medal.


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Talk:Israeli chess players barred at chess tournament in Saudi Arabia

I haven't completed the article yet, but paragraphs looks longer than they should. I hope the reviewer fragments it so it is easily readable. •–• 18:00, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Please confirm if all wikilinks are correct. •–• 18:36, 26 December 2017 (UTC)

Review of revision 4372113 [Passed]
Should have renamed to lower-case "chess" before publication. I'm inclined to wait till its archived, rather that cause any multiple feed entries. --Pi zero (talk) 21:56, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
 * KSA doesn’t identify Israel and they don’t have diplomatic ties is the reason I wanted to use Politics and conflicts infobox. But I did not want to connect it with the embassy situation and what Muslim majority countries were doing. •–• 04:30, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

moveprotected lowercase “chess” after archiving. •–• 04:31, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Pi zero (talk) 23:48, 7 January 2018 (UTC)


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Thread:Comments:Guatemalan president Jimmy Morales announces move of Israeli embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem/Importance of News ?

Of everything we could read about the crazy Trump announcements about Jerusalem, this "news" is the least important. There is some single drunken politician from some remote country you never read about, he wakes up after sleeping for weeks and in a moment of distraction he decides to copy the sick US president before even understand what he is doing.

WikiNews is everything else than neutral, if this is "head lines". Who ownes this "democratic" medium? Crazy!


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Thread:Comments:Guatemalan president Jimmy Morales announces move of Israeli embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem/Importance of News ?/reply

Just like why should Holy See should ever make a headline when nobody gives a flying fuck about what he does…two wrongs doesn’t make a right. But I don’t think there is a point arguing with you why something is or isn’t news. People like you think s only the first world developed nations can make headline. Why do you think your country is perfect and other politicians can’t decide anything?


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Thread:Comments:Guatemalan president Jimmy Morales announces move of Israeli embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem/Importance of News ?/reply (2)

What kind of retard is writing nonsense like this? "People like you" should hide behind bars. There is no logic in your statement. If the overwhelming majority of the UN assembly votes, you call this "first world developed nations"? Are you fucking drunk or stupid? But I guess, it's not the game. The game is called "I am the guard of the truth - the Administrator." -or however you call your highness' position. You are a troll and an Israeli scum bag or paid by such.

We have "noted your comments".


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User talk:New Capital

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العاصمة الإدارية الجديدة هى عاصمة متكاملة للسكن والحياة.تحتوى على مسطحات خضراء يصل نصيب الفرد من المساحات الخضرائ نحو 15 متر مربع. تتميز بوجود الحديقة المركزية والنهر الأخضر والتى يبلغ طولها 25 كيلومتر مربع وتعتبر شريان الحياة للمدينة كلها.

تتضمن عشرون حيا سكنيا يسع لستة ملايين ونصف نسمة. يتسم تخطيط المدينة بالتوازن بين مساحات المشروعات الإستثمارية الكبرى والمراكز التجارية والأبراج الإدارية. كما وضع فى الإعتبار مناطق للتطوير العمرانية ومزارع الطاقة الشمسية ومناطق صناعية ومطار دولى بمساحة 33 كيلو متر مربع.

تتنوع المناطق السكنية فى الكثافة وسط مساحات خضراء وأنظمة مستدامة ومتجددة لتوليد الطاقة وتدوير المخلفات وتحلية المياه. تقع العاصمة الإدارية الجديدة على مساحة 170 ألف فدان أي ما يعادل مساحة دولة سنغافورة. 40 الف فدان هى المرحلة الاولى من مشروع العاصمة الجديدة. تتميز بإتصالها بشبكة طرق رئيسية تتوسط الإقليم التنموي لمحور قناة السويس. وسيتم ربط العاصمة الإدارية الجديدة بوسط القاهرة بشبكة مواصلات تستغرق 30 دقيقة.تتواصل أحيائها بشبكة ممرات للمشاة والدراجات الهوائية. وتوفر جميع شبكات المواصلات لجميع فئات المجتمع.

تم إختيار الموقع لتكون المدينة الجديدة أمتداد للعاصمة الحالية وقريبة من منطقة القناة مما يعطيها ميزة إستراتيجية واللوجستية. تتمتع العاصمة الإدارية الجديدة بشبكات بنية تحتية مطابقة لأحدث تقنيات والمعايير العالمية مما يفعل تطبيقات الحكومة الإلكترونية ويرفع من كفاءتها لتغطى كافة المعاملات الحكومية بامان وسهولة ويسر. وتم تصميم الوزرات بالتنوع فى الطروز المعمارية المستوحاة من الحضارات المتعاقبة على مصر والمتماشية مع روح العصر. العالم كله مستني يشوف المصريين وهم بيبنوا عاصمتهم الجديدة بإيديهم ! تابعنا واعرف كل أخبار العاصمة الإدارية الجديدة !

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User talk:Soufiane El Mazgaldi

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User talk:Marken Ma

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User talk:Hypeatia

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User talk:王尔飞

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User talk:Anshvilla

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User talk:Mukendra

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Israel transport minister Katz plans to name a railway station after US president Donald Trump

December 30, 2017 On Wednesday, Israeli transportation minister told Israeli newspaper  he had decided to name a railway station "Donald John Trump Station" after the  president Donald Trump, which is to be built near the  in Jerusalem, a Jewish holy site.

"The Western Wall is the holiest site of the Jewish people and I have decided to name the train station leading to it after the president of the United States, Donald Trump, following his courageous and historic decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of the State of Israel", Katz told Yedioth Ahronoth.

The idea of building an extra railway station near the Cardo region was recommended by a steering committee of, and Katz agreed for the proposal. Last year, Katz reportedly suggested the idea of extending the forthcoming high-speed rail line connecting Tel Aviv and Jerusalem's western entrance so that this line runs further to the, in order to reduce travel time.

Currently, the project is in the initial stages of development. According to the actual scheme, the new railway tunnel is about three (about two ) long and it is to run through downtown Jerusalem. It is to run beneath the city center via and, have two underground stations, and pass close to many holy sites including  and. According to Avner Ovadia, a spokesman for the Israeli transport ministry, estimated cost for the extension is about 2.5 billion (about 522 million;  US$700m) and the project is expected to take four years to complete after approval.

Katz calls his idea of naming a railway station after Donald Trump for his "courageous and historic decision" to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Trump's decision to recoginze Jerusalem as Israel's capital was condemned internationally. Katz added visitors could see "the beating heart of the Jewish people: the Western Wall and the Temple Mount", and said the planned railway line extension was "most important national project in the transportation ministry".


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User talk:Kiame 2017

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User talk:Ramonmarshall

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User talk:Litilson pd

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User talk:CrmnMariano1

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User talk:Rafael Franceschetti

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User talk:Cathal321

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User talk:Marenzo92

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User talk:KazukoWatts7

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User talk:RobertoYencken5

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User talk:Jim wang

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Thread:Comments:Guatemalan president Jimmy Morales announces move of Israeli embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem/Importance of News ?/reply (3)

At no point in that article did we criticise Guatemala's or the United States' decision in doing so. We even mentioned the United Nations vote that you seem to be so concerned about. This is the first country to copy America's action here, so it does carry some significance. I don't know what your problem is.


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User talk:Fixerdave

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User talk:Tslei

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User talk:Markwong9816

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User talk:Aleact

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User talk:COSOVO

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Talk:Israel transport minister Katz plans to name a railway station after US president Donald Trump

Some thoughts
can you quickly make those changes so that I can review it, because without answering when that happened, I would have to mark it not ready. •–• 06:58, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * 1) There is no mention "when" the announcement was made. Without answering "when?" freshness can not be established.
 * 2) The headline suggests the focus of the article is naming a railway station after US president, however, the first tow lines of the article speaks about extending the railway and where will it be built. If it is the background information, leave it for the next paragraphs, not in the lede.
 * It was just the same date as the main date of the article (which is yesterday now), but I've made it more explicit in the text. You can find the info back in the last source given below (TJC). De Wikischim (talk) 09:29, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * If the event happened on the same say, the article must say "Today". •–• 09:46, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

I'd need a bigger pile of time to actually review this, but here are some first impressions. --Pi zero (talk) 14:13, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * On a quick look-over, it appears that the statement at the start of the lede is not readily supported by the sources, and may even be false: was the suggestion of the extension only made on Wedesday, as the lede says, or was only the suggestion of naming a station after Trump?
 * I'm concerned about this from a neutrality perspective, that it may be concealing the Palestinian perspective on the story. I see no sources listed that would be especially likely to do that justice, although the ABC source at least alludes to it.
 * The lede looks overly long and detailed. Details should be in some later paragraph.
 * User:Pi zero - I've now added a source which reveals that the idea of the extension already dates from November 2016 (at least). It is the only the proposed name for the railway station which is new. De Wikischim (talk) 19:56, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * <nods> --Pi zero (talk) 19:58, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * ? De Wikischim (talk) 20:40, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I figured some such thing might be afoot. --Pi zero (talk) 20:49, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I still don't quite get it, I think. It is some important context for the news item as such. Or is there an earlier news item here on Wikinews about the plans for the extension when they first became known? Then that article can be linked from this one. Do you mean the project should already be ongoing now? At least one of the sources mentions this, and it is in the article itself too ("initial stages"). What is the issue here exactly? De Wikischim (talk) 21:32, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Nothing deep, and it appears to have already been addressed. At the time I made the remark, the first sentence of the article said that on Wednesday, Yisrael Katz suggested extending the line to the Western Wall.  Which I observed was not the focus of the headline and also suspected might not be true.  Your comment here confirmed my suspicion, and I nodded; that's all.  --Pi zero (talk) 22:07, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * OK thanks for clarifiying. I'll be offline for the rest of today (it's late in the evening in my time zone). De Wikischim (talk) 22:13, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

note on newsworthiness:, I was under the impression this event took place on Wednesday, and was still fresh until tomorrow. But The Guardian says, “The Kotel [Western Wall] is the holiest place to the Jewish people, and I have decided to name the train station leading to it after US President Donald Trump, in recognition of his brave and historic decision to recognise Jerusalem as Israel’s capital,” Katz said on Tuesday. The one who wrote "Yesterday, he told Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper" did not verify it and that means we lost the article. •–• 17:03, 30 December 2017 (UTC)


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User talk:강일웅

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User talk:Hwlr

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User talk:Redha Ait

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User talk:Henri.randriantsoa

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Afghanistan: More than 40 killed in explosions in Kabul

December 28, 2017 Today, multiple bomb blasts at a Kabul Shi'a cultural centre, religious school, and Afghan Voice news agency killed at least 41 people and injured 84, Afghanistan's public health ministry spokesperson Waheed Majrooh said.

According to reports it was a suicide attack. According to multiple reports and eye-witnesses, at least three explosions were heard. Militant group Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) claimed the responsibility of this attack via. Children were gathered at the cultural centre on the 38th anniversary of the Soviet invasion in mostly Sunni Afghanistan.

In 2017, at least 73 attacks on journalists took place in Afghanistan, according to the Afghan Journalists Safety Committee. There have been multiple attacks on Shi'a Muslims in Afghanistan by ISIL. 39 were killed in an attack on October 21 at a Shi'a mosque in Afghan's capital Kabul. More than 80 were killed in another attack in May when a truck bomb detonated in Kabul's area.


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User talk:彩色琪子

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User talk:Tarcio Trinta Bwe Pausado 433

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User talk:Whistle toe llll

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User talk:Societyofclinicalresearchtz(scrtz)

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User talk:Societyofclinicalresearchtz

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Football: Liverpool reaches agreement with Southampton FC to sign van Dijk

December 30, 2017 On Wednesday, English football club Liverpool FC announced reaching an agreement with  to sign Dutch centre-back. According to the reports, the Dutchman would cost Liverpool 75 million making him the most expensive defender of all time as well as the most expensive player in Liverpool's history.

In an post, van Dijk wrote, "Delighted and honoured to have agreed to become a Liverpool FC player!" The defender is to join Liverpool on January 1, when the transfer window opens. He is to wear number 4 jersey, the club announced on their website. The Reds tried to sign the Dutchman in summer after he formally requested a transfer.

van Dijk joined The Saints in 2015 for a fee of £13 million from and he penned a six-year contract with the club last year. Since 2014, Liverpool has signed five players from Southampton for about £171.5 million.

Liverpool is currently fourth in the table with 41 points in 21 games. They have conceded 24 goals in the league this season. Seventeen points behind league leaders Manchester City, Liverpool is scheduled to play in an away game on January 1, but would not be able to field van Dijk.


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User talk:One in One

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User talk:MariaeSimmons

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User talk:Tariqmir161

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User talk:Davidhaw

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Lottery article
Unfortunately, this article has gone terribly stale. Start a new one and let me know if I can help! --Bddpaux (talk) 22:54, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

Re the spelling mistake
That article was written in English (UK), and "euthanise" is not wrong. •–• 17:57, 20 March 2018 (UTC)

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User talk:Winiw play

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User talk:Scotthlee

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User talk:Dim66tris

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text: Talk:Afghanistan: More than 40 killed in explosions in Kabul


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Thread:Comments:Afghanistan: More than 40 killed in explosions in Kabul/Differing agandas

I take it ISIS targets Shia in Afghanistan but Taliban do not; which would make sense if the Taliban want to govern the place, for which one mightn't want to turn it into a sectarian war zone. Hence, while ISIS issued a statement claiming they were responsible, the Taliban issued a statement saying they weren't.


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User talk:HungLaw52991

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User talk:Chasemchugh

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User talk:Echokosmos164

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User talk:Xhpjbgo

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Wikinews:Water cooler/technical/archives/2017/November

The Community Wishlist Survey 2017
Hey everyone,

The Community Wishlist Survey is the process when the Wikimedia communities decide what the Wikimedia Foundation Community Tech should work on over the next year.

The Community Tech team is focused on tools for experienced Wikimedia editors. You can post technical proposals from now until November 20. The communities will vote on the proposals between November 28 and December 12. You can read more on the 2017 wishlist survey page. /Johan (WMF) (talk) 20:16, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Bypassing the cache
I tried the Ctrl or Shift key + F5 key or Reload button in both Internet Explorer and Google Chrome as said in w:Wikipedia:Bypass your cache. However, the pages do not reset to the latest versions. Instead, the available options for Wikinews are either deleting Files from the browser or clicking the "Refresh"/"Purge" button or the UTC clock link (if enabled). Why won't the project's server allow the "bypassing the cache" method to work, i.e. why doesn't the Ctrl+F5 method work? --George Ho (talk) 01:00, 26 November 2017 (UTC)
 * that is browser dependent. For Mozilla Firefox, it works fine. I am not sure about the other browsers. It has nothing to do with the site. Cache is not saved on the server side, after all. It is saved locally. •–• 13:59, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * There is more than one sort of "cache" involved. Ctrl+F5 is Firefox for purging cache, iirc; I think it even purges cached javascript.  However, that's about purging stuff that Firefox has cached.  There is also stuff that the wikimedia servers cache, which is what gets purged by clicking the UTC clock link, or by adding   after the ordinary url of a page (cf. PurgeButton).  --Pi zero (talk) 17:31, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * what they are asking, about keyboard shortcut happens at the client side, and is browser dependent. They are aware of the purge action (looking at their user page). •–• 17:47, 28 November 2017 (UTC)


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User talk:Arifhussian

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Belgium stops telegram services

December 30, 2017 After 171 years of existence, telegram services were permanently stopped in Belgium as of yesterday. The service was launched in 1846, and about 9000 telegrams were sent across the country from January 2017 to November 2017. On December 12, Belgian telecommunication company, who provided telegram services in the country, announced they "will definitively end [our] telegram service" on December 29. Jack Hamande, board member of the Belgian Institute for Postal Services and Telecommunications, said, "It is mainly 10 customers using the telegram in Belgium today [...] in finance, judicial services and insurance".

The first telegram line was laid from Belgium's capital Brussels to. Usage of telegram has decreased enormously over the decades. According to Proximus's statistics, about 1.5 million telegrams were sent during the early 1980s, with many telegrams coming from Italy, but the number dropped to fifty thousand in the early 2010s. Sending a twenty-word message via telegram in Belgium would cost around €16 (about US$19). Hamande said, "Most of the current users of telegram will shift to registered mail [...] we see no reason to force the company to maintain this service."

Telegram is still functional in Italy. It was invented in Great Britain in the 1830s, but was stopped there in 1982. The United States stopped telegram services in 2006, and the last telegram in India was sent on July 14, 2013 which began in 1850. In the mid-1980s, about 600 thousand telegrams were sent across India each day.

"If you ask young people [...] they don't know what a telegram is", Hamande said.

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Talk:Belgium stops telegram services

This is like an obituary or a sick person, or a time bomb explosion article -- we knew was going to happen. Now, it has happened. •–• 09:34, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Review of revision 4372594 [Passed]

 * I had trouble finding that tweet. It was not tweeted by Proximus, but Proximus Group. Here is the tweet. link. Took me time to find it. Yes, it was very darned difficult, because when I saw the dates of the sources, I had no idea what to do. It was similar to what would happen for Virgil van Dijk. He is to join Liverpool on January 1. He will become the costliest defender in history. Plus, it is English football, so receives lot of attention. So when the move actually takes place on January 1, I don’t think there would be anything to write, nor will anyone write about it. •–• 06:23, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Proximus source was supposed to be there for the statistics mentioned in the article, as well as the graph. What do we do now? •–• 09:44, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The graph, which you could not see (was JavaScript on?), is the one we have used in the article. For the "exponential decrease", with the available statistics, and the curve fitting for the plotted graph, it appears to be a graph. •–•  10:07, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The file has to be uploaded locally because it can be changed on Commons by anyone, and we would not want that to happen. •–• 10:54, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Realizing that the tweet was by Proximus Group contributed to my eventual decision to change the wikilink from Proximus to Proximus Group. --Pi zero (talk) 12:43, 30 December 2017 (UTC)

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User talk:Younes 2018

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User:Khazzanahtour

Paket Umroh Plus Turki 2018 Lebih Murah, Aman dan Nyaman

Semakin tingginya minat untuk melakukan perjalanan wisata rohani atau dalam istilah lain disebut dengan Paket Umroh Plus Turki 2018, yang didalamnya terdapat banyak program perjalanan dimulai dari mengunjungi berbagai tempat di negara dua benua ini. Pemilihan tempat-tempat yang berhubungan kuat dengan penyebaran Islam di eropa sangatlah disukai banyak kalangan karena siapa yang mengingat akan sejarah pasti akan mendapatkan banyak hal untuk menuju yang terbaik di dalam melanjutkan keseluruhan hidup di dunia ini.

Dalam melakukan perjalanan wisata ke negara turki yang terkenal dengan Paket Umroh Plus Turki 2018 ini kami sudah merancang jauh-jauh hari agar keamanan dan kenyamanan dalam kunjungan tersebut dapat dinikmati bersama baik oleh pihak yang melaksanakan umroh plus turki tersebut atau oleh orang yang menunggu kedatangan diwaktu pulang dengan membawa berbagai buah tangan khusus yang tidak didapatkan di tempat lain selain negara turki tersebut.

Program Paket Umroh PLus Turki 2018 dimulai dari bulan januari, Februari dan juga April, dimana agar semua pihak dapat memilih salah satunya disesuaikan dengan jadwal liburan yang dimilikinya, sehingga dapat melaksanakan kegiatan ini bersama orang-orang tersayangnya demi mendapatkan kenangan terindah dalam sepanjagn hidungnya.

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User talk:Umrohkhazzanah

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Liberia: Former football striker George Weah wins presidential election

December 29, 2017 Yesterday, the Liberian National Elections Commission (NEC) said former football player won Tuesday's second round of the 2017 Liberian presidential election, winning 61.5% of the votes after 98.1% of the ballots were counted, defeating current vice-president.

In the first round of the election, held in October, Weah led Boakai, but did not receive the threshold of 50% of the votes. In the second round, the turnout was about 56%, the NEC said. There were 27,873 invalid votes, constituting 2.3% of the total votes.

51-year-old Weah is to become president in January. He competed in the presidential election in 2005, but lost to Ellen Sirleaf. Sirleaf is the first female president of Liberia, has served as the president for two terms, and received the Nobel Peace Prize in 2011.

This election marks the first democratic transition in the country since 1944. It is also the first election run independently by Liberia — without help from the United Nations — since the end of civil war in the country in 2003.

Since December 2014, Weah has served as a senator in the parliament. He competed for the vice-presidential post in 2011, but lost to Boakai.

With him, stood for the post of vice-president. In an interview with , Weah said Taylor "is a Liberian, capable, qualified, and Liberian people love her. I also believe in gender equality, so I think having a woman as my vice president is a good thing".

Weah entered politics after retiring from football in 2003. Weah has played for various European football clubs including, Paris Saint-Germain, AC Milan, Chelsea and Manchester City. In 1995, he won the as well as  award. He is the only African to win the Balon d'Or.

Yesterday, Weah tweeted, "My fellow Liberians, I deeply feel the emotion of all the nation. I measure the importance and the responsibility of the immense task which I embrace today. Change is on." French president Emmanuel Macron congratulated Weah, and tweeted,


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Talk:Liberia: Former football striker George Weah wins presidential election

"Weah departed Milan in January 2000, joining Chelsea and then moving on to Manchester City, Marseille and Al Jazirah before announcing his retirement in August 2003." -- FIFA. Some sources say he retired in 2002, but no, it is 2003. •–• 15:58, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Wait for the second FIFA source to load. And see the awards section. •–• 16:47, 29 December 2017 (UTC)


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text: Comments:Liberia: Former football striker George Weah wins presidential election


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United States: New York City mayoral swear-in to pair potential 2020 presidential prospects

December 31, 2017 On New Years Day 2018, on the steps of, U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont, runner-up for the Democratic Party's 2016 presidential nomination and potential candidate, is to conduct the  of New York City Mayor , himself a potential 2020 presidential contender. In a statement, de Blasio, who was re-elected as Mayor this past November, claims to have invited Sanders due to the progressive icon's Brooklyn, New York roots and advocacy on behalf of working people. Analysts say the invitation is a calculated political move on behalf of de Blasio to take advantage of Sanders' popularity. Sanders, 76, a self-identified, was born in Brooklyn before relocating to his current home of Vermont. After running for various public offices in the 1970s as a member of the anti-war, Sanders won election as Mayor of in 1981, serving three successive terms. In 1990, he was elected to the United States House of Representatives as an Independent, serving for 16 years before winning election to the U.S. Senate, again as an Independent. During his, Sanders garnered grassroots support, finishing second at the to Hillary Clinton, whose husband, former President Bill Clinton, administered de Blasio's oath for Mayor in 2014.

Sanders' 2016 performance and ensuing popularity within the Democratic Party has led to speculation about his plans in 2020. According to , Sanders is taking steps toward a 2020 run. Referencing Sanders' advanced age, incumbent President Donald Trump, who has already announced plans to run for re-election in 2020, said he expects Sanders to run "even if he's in a wheelchair."

News outlets have also speculated about de Blasio's 2020 prospects. Last week, de Blasio delivered a speech in the state of Iowa, prompting publications such as ' and ' to discuss whether the speech, delivered before about 200 progressive activists in  concerning the direction of the Democratic Party, was a way for de Blasio to test the waters for a potential run. De Blasio himself has denied he is running for President, though speculation persists.

Congressman of Maryland is currently the only prominent Democrat officially running for President. Senators of Massachusetts and  of New York are also expected to run.


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Talk:United States: New York City mayoral swear-in to pair potential 2020 presidential prospects

There seems to be an incomplete HTML comment tag at the end of the source. Why so? •–• 09:48, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * It was left over from the template. --William S. Saturn (talk) 16:30, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I really hope I may be able to review this in a few hours. --Pi zero (talk) 16:35, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Pi, you were too slow. --SVTCobra 00:14, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Considering what's going on here irl, not surprising. Thanks.  --Pi zero (talk) 00:16, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Review of revision 4372795 [Passed]

 * Thank you for the review.--William S. Saturn (talk) 21:51, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Information (in the parenthesis)
Are are supposed to avoid it. I have no clue what "(VT)" means, or why it should be there. I figured out it was name of a state after I say "(MA)", but not everyone would know what is NY, MA or VT. Best to use full name -- Wikinews is for global audience. •–• 10:11, 31 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Not that these are huge weighty issues, obviously, but, yeah. Abbreviations are to be avoided unless explained at the first instance, that one's in the style guide.  And we had a brief discussion at the water cooler some years back about the parenthetical-state thing, which is ubiquitous in US poltical msm, with the sense that if standalone information is important enough to mention in a news article, it's important enough to mention without parentheses.  (We use parentheses for converting between units of measure, and converting to UTC, which I hoped to cover with qualification "standalone".)  --Pi zero (talk) 15:11, 31 December 2017 (UTC)


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