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User talk:SVTCobra/2015-17 Archive

Re mass extinction article
I'm actually not sure whether I could have rearranged the lede enough. But the sad fate of that article was that I didn't get to it in time — at that time in June we had more articles on the review queue than I could keep up with. Then, evidently, the semester ended at UoW, and suddenly we're in a dry spell. --Pi zero (talk) 22:51, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh, I didn't know. Shit! Did we disappoint a bunch of journalism students at UoW?  --SVTCobra 22:55, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I did my best; I don't really have overall feedback, so I'm not sure (historically brianmc has communicated with Professor Blackall, rather than I). Around that time we were putting a good deal of effort particularly into a big OR piece that several UoW students had collaborated on, because brianmc was personally in the middle of the story so had a severe COI and couldn't possibly cover it himself.  That got published two days later: this.  --Pi zero (talk) 23:20, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

archiving
Just to note. The convention we've mostly followed for the past few years has been to leave ten articles unarchived, postponing archiving of the oldest as necessary for that, so as to keep a useful variety of samples of our work on the main page at any given time even when our output is slow. It's not a guideline, of course, let alone a policy, just a convention to help keep things sane. There's a note on it at WN:ARCHIVE; and WN:ARCHIVE is set up with a horizontal line after the first ten articles listed, so that if there's nothing below that line, there aren't more than ten unarchived articles (it'd be even cooler to have it list only articles that are both old enough and in excess of 10, but so far we don't have a way to do that). --Pi zero (talk) 18:54, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Ah, OK. Sorry.  Well, 2 were archived today.  I don't think you want me to undo it.  I will keep it in mind going forward. --SVTCobra 18:59, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * That's the spirit of the thing, yes. Not something to get excited about; quite the contrary.  I used to worry, each time we had a slow-down, about where to put the archive cut-off.  Then we settled on a number, not worrisomely small, not worrisomely big; and I stopped worrying (about that, anyway :-) --Pi zero (talk) 20:56, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I have the itch to write some articles. Would you believe the Obama White House is crappier than the Bush White House?  Well, at least the website.  Bush's version was great for photos and quotes.  With that material I could write articles that were actually different than the AP and Reuters versions.  But ... I don't see it on Obama's whitehouse.gov

Cheers, --SVTCobra 21:42, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

((editing}}
I noticed when you put the editing tag on that article there was a typo, the opening braces were parentheses. --Pi zero (talk) 12:03, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. --SVTCobra 12:07, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
 * :-) --Pi zero (talk) 12:24, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Pi zero and my article
Could you or Pi please review my article or does it need more information? Maybe someone could add more? Thank you. --Softstarrs23 (talk) 14:04, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Dupdet tool
A tool I've been relying on heavily these days, when dealing with articles by newcomers (though I generally find it a bad investment of reviewer effort when reviewing work by experienced Wikinewsies), described/discussed/linked at WN:Tips on reviewing articles. --Pi zero (talk) 14:32, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

Report: Vice-premier of North Korea executed
I'm guessing the editing tag was meant to come off when the article was submitted for review, and I plan to proceed accordingly. --Pi zero (talk) 17:53, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, absolutely. I thought the javascript took care of that (I am almost certain it did on my last article).  Anyway, thanks. --SVTCobra 17:56, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Automation
FYI. Afaict all the major automation on the site is now down. In particular, it appears (to me, anyway) that both the review gadget and make lead have stopped working. I've just published an article and updated leads by hand (which is a pain, though I expect it'll get a little easier with practice, this being only about the second or third time I've had to publish entirely manually). If it's actually working for you, that would be interesting. --Pi zero (talk) 19:50, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, I saw both your and Jason's comments. And I saw your post for Bawolff.  Does he still come around if we need him?  I can't remember how many years it has been since I've seen an edit from him.  August 10, the review tool was working for me.  Today the submit for review worked, but that was hours ago.  --SVTCobra 19:54, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I've gotten the impression Bawolff has been expecting for some time that one of these days they'd do something he wouldn't be able to fix re the automation he wrote for us in days of yore. You can see he has been willing-and-able to do a little tinkering for us, still, in recent times; Special:Contributions/Bawolff.

 * The submit button is hardcoded into MediaWiki:Common.js, and is pretty straightforward stuff (it's actually the first thing I have in mind to replace with my dialog tools, ironically since it may be the only thing that doesn't strictly need replacing). --Pi zero (talk) 20:04, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Btw, the review gadget and make lead both worked for me yesterday (August 11). --Pi zero (talk) 20:08, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * You are probably also the only one active on this project that could make heads or tails out of those javascripts. --SVTCobra 20:18, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I've the impression even bawolff finds some of his early js for wn scary. But yes, I'm aware of being pretty much the active js expert on en.wn, relatively speaking. My goal with my dialog tools being, of course, to make it possible for a wiki's community to build its own interactive stuff using only wiki markup; when I realized javascript was going to have to be a key element of the enabling tools for that, I asked bawolff to suggest a good book on javascript.  --Pi zero (talk) 20:34, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * I have left a message for Bawolff on his Wikipedia page. He seems more active there.  --SVTCobra 21:26, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Only thing worse than spaghetti code, is spagetti code that you wrote yourself, as you have nobody else to blame. I'm still around occasionally, mostly active at mediawiki.org and a little at commons. Bawolff ☺☻ 04:56, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Two things I might mention re manual publication. Remember to create the opinions page, by clicking on the opinions tab which automatically provides the appropriate dweomer for LiquidThreads, which you then just save as-is.  And, for some time now I've been fully move-protecting all articles once they're published, because we had a page-move vandal a while back who screwed with several published articles before I blocked him (and I understand that to be a kind of screwing with published articles that we want to be impossible).  --Pi zero (talk) 03:17, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

Ah, yes. the comments. I was even thinking about that, but didn't make any attempt. But speaking of page moving. There was a user that tried to changer user name by renaming her user page (incl talk). This created redirects. Since there's no "undo" for page moves, I deleted the redirect and then moved the so-called "new pages" back to their original name. And then I deleted those redirects. But even hours later, I would sometimes get "redirect to non-existing page" when trying to access the talk page. But then when I accessed it via edit history, it would show me the correct page. I don't know if I did something wrong, mayber I switched the order of deleting and renaming. In any event it was the author of Why nobody understands the war User:User:Jessicalynnora ... yes and now it is happening alls the time.--SVTCobra 03:39, 13 August 2015 (UTC)--SVTCobra 03:39, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

 * I think you may have renamed those pages as if the user name were User:Jessicalynnora (whose user talk page would be called "User talk:User:Jessicalynnora") instead of Jessicalynnora (whose user talk page would be called "User talk:Jessicalynnora"). I'm going to try to repair it on that premise.  --Pi zero (talk) 03:55, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was probably it. Iirc, the renaming dialog used to just ask for the page name, and you'd specify the namespace as part of that, but then they changed it so now the namespace is selected separately from the text box.  I'm guessing if you select userspace from the menu and also, at the same time, specify a User: prefix in the text box, the software stupidly renames to User:User:... instead of, say, asking whether you really wanted to do that.  --Pi zero (talk) 04:05, 13 August 2015 (UTC)

MH370
This is Jason. Can't log in from my phone. I replied to your comment. See:http://www.haveeru.com.mv/news/61522 in the 6th or 7th paragraph. The quote was reported on a Malaysian government news channel. 2600:1006:B04B:F619:CB95:23E5:7BC:2CA1 (talk) 22:06, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * "We (Malaysia) have an understanding with the authorities there (the Maldives)...we think the parts which were found about a month ago were parts of the aircraft,” Kaprawi said. 2600:1006:B04B:F619:CB95:23E5:7BC:2CA1 (talk) 22:16, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Let's keep the chat to your talk page so we don't have to double post everything, ok? --SVTCobra 22:23, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Hello!
Hey! Seen you active after a long time. Happy to see you again! Agastya Chandrakant  ⚽ 🏆 🎾 🎬 🎤 📰  05:18, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Thanks, but I just visit from time-to-time. Glad to see new faces here that pay attention. :D  .... cheers and happy editing --SVTCobra 05:29, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Support numbers
This is a sprawling problem we've had lately, btw. Lots of accounts doing this same kind of spam. I asked for a checkuser, and Cspurrier said "They do seem to all be the same, but the ips are all over the place. It looks like they are using a large collection of compromised systems to edit. Other than adjust the abuse filter, it doesn't look like there is any thing we can do." So, Zombie hoard. For my part, I've been indefblocking them. --Pi zero (talk) 17:22, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
 * OK, this was the first time I saw it, so I only did a 12 hour block. However, I did notice a few other usernames doing the same, but they had stopped at one article.  Cheers, --SVTCobra 06:39, 6 May 2016 (UTC)

Russian Army is Modernizing Yuri Borisov
Blueparticle (talk) 01:03, 12 May 2016 (UTC) English is my second language. I tried my best to provide correct English and grammar. If it still lack, please help me to indicate it or to correct it.

Thanks

Articles pending review
Hello. There are several news articles pending review. You may go to either WN:Newsroom or Category:Review and review at least one. Thanks. --George Ho (talk) 06:51, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

Deletion of an article I asked to be userified
@SVTCobra: On 8 December 2017 you deleted New book by Ellen Pao, former Chief Executive of Reddit, explores sexism in Silicon Valley which I had asked to be userified. I spent a lot of time writing this article, and do not appreciate my request being simply ignored without notice. Can you please explain why you did this? Please respond at User_talk:Ottawahitech. Thanks in advance, Ottawahitech (talk) 19:42, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

 * User-fying unsuccessful synthesis articles isn't something we usually do on a systematic basis; it feels kind of web-host-like. --Pi zero (talk) 19:57, 24 December 2017 (UTC)
 * there should be a good reason to userspace an article. You were asked multiple times, but you ignored it each it. Unless you answer why is it so important to userspace an article, there is zero chance you would have any of the articles userspaced. (I remember you had asked for it when the the articles had hardly any meaningful content, with a bunch of sources) •–• 03:13, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

 * I have basically asked the same thing on Ottawahitech's own user talk page. Cheers, --SVTCobra 08:46, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

Page protection request
Hey, just a quick question -- can you be online for some more minutes? I am about to publish an article and someone should protect the page [so that only admins can rename it] asap. •–• 08:49, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Is there a special reason for needing this protection? Do you expect vandalism? Back in my day, this was not standard practice. Cheers, --SVTCobra 09:47, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Well, yes, that is the reason articles are protected after they are published -- [What Pi zero said recently] (link) (link). 117.248.120.35 (talk) 09:52, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ I am not sure I agree with the practice. Perhaps auto-confirmed users should be allowed to move pages? Anyway, that's a discussion for another day. And I can hardly believe that Amgine has been around so much recently and even written an article! Wow! Cheers, --SVTCobra 10:05, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * it is not hard to acquire auto-confirmed status [I have only heard about this term on w'pedia] but precaution is better than cure. 117.248.120.35 (talk) 10:12, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I tried to unaccept the changes because I don't think you actually cross-checked the facts -- I did not know you had the reviewer rights, however, if you have some time to spare, can you please cross-check and sight the article? •–• 10:15, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * In fact, I had already read a Reuters article on this news. I can't speak to the accuracy of the translation of Morales' Facebook post, but the same sentiments were in the article I read. I verified the vote count and the rest is common knowledge. Cheers, --SVTCobra 11:11, 25 December 2017 (UTC)
 * It's been long enough that I don't remember all the details of the events that led me to start systematically protecting against moves, but there was a bunch of actual page-move vandalism involved, and given the massive potential for off-site visibility I adopted the systematic practice. We do discourage post-publish moves anyway, due to the possible multiple-feed-entries effect, and I hoped the impact of the protection practice might also be mitigated by reviewers being just a bit more alert about double-checking headlines since they're aware of the practice.  --Pi zero (talk) 14:06, 25 December 2017 (UTC)

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User talk:Mdaminulhaque

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 13:35, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mdaminulhaque


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User talk:石岩夫

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 13:44, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:石岩夫


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User talk:R.ABINAYA

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 13:52, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:R.ABINAYA


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User talk:WilburThwaites

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 14:47, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:WilburThwaites


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User talk:Earnestron

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 15:13, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

--Pi zero (talk) 15:17, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Earnestron


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User talk:Corey85H48

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 15:17, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Corey85H48


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User talk:محمد أوبرك

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 15:18, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:محمد أوبرك


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User talk:محمد النخ

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 16:52, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:محمد النخ


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User talk:Mmrsafy

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 17:12, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mmrsafy


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User:Anitek bhattacharya

Introduction
My name is Anitek Bhattacharya. I was born in a Hindu Bengali Brahmin family. I have completed my Higher Secondary Education in science. I am currently pursuing Electronics and Communications Engineering from Amity University, Noida, India. My interest areas include technology, gadgets, affairs related to politics and corporate world etc.

Education
Graduation, (Electronics and Communication Engineering)

Activities and Societies: International Conference on Signal Processing and Integrated Networks, VLSI Club, Robotics Club, Society of Electrical and Electronics Engineers.

Interests
Technology, Economics, Business, Current Affairs, Political Affairs

Social Networks
I am active on various social network and can be easily contacted on Facebook , Twitter , Linkedin

title: User:Anitek bhattacharya


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User talk:Abdellah el atrach

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 19:38, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Abdellah el atrach


text: Comments:Mysterious dimming of Tabby's star likely due to space dust, not alien superstructures, say scientists


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User talk:Soulscanner

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 22:50, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Soulscanner


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User talk:Maricelacr

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 01:32, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

--Pi zero (talk) 01:44, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Maricelacr


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User talk:WillardLuster49

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 01:43, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:WillardLuster49


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User talk:Msvel123

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 02:08, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Msvel123


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User talk:2hundredthousand

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 02:15, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:2hundredthousand


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Wikinews:Water cooler/miscellaneous/archives/2017/December

Tech News: 2017-49
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available. Recent changes
 * It is now possible to upload MP3 files to Commons. Only users with MP3 file upload rights can upload MP3 files.
 * You can now use live updates for recent changes if you use the new filters. This feature updates the filtered recent changes every three seconds when you activate it.
 * There is an experimental onion service for Wikimedia projects.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 5 December. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 6 December. It will be on all wikis from 7 December (calendar).
 * Very old versions of the Opera Web browser are no longer supported. This means that technical development will not be tested to make sure it works with those Opera versions. Use Opera 15 or above or another browser if you have problems.
 * Octicons-tools.svg Almost 170 wikis with no high-priority errors in Linter categories will switch to use the Remex parsing library. This is to replace Tidy. A few larger wikis such as German and Italian Wikipedia will also make this switch. It will happen on 5 December. Other wikis will be recommended to switch soon when they have fixed the errors that must be fixed. Tidy will be removed in the middle of 2018.

Meetings
 * Octicons-sync.svg You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs you think are the most important. The meeting will be on 5 December at 19:30 (UTC). See how to join.
 * Octicons-tools.svg You can join the technical advice meeting on IRC. During the meeting, volunteer developers can ask for advice. The meeting will be on 6 December at 16:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes
 * The 2017 Community Wishlist Survey will decide what the Community Tech team will work on next year. You can vote for wishes on the survey page until 10 December. You can see what has happened to last year's wishes on the 2016 results page.
 * The Community Liaisons team at the Wikimedia Foundation is looking for active tech ambassadors. This is to make sure the Wikimedia communities get all the information they need about new features and can be involved in the technical development.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  17:50, 4 December 2017 (UTC)

Invitation to Blocking tools consultation
Hello all,

The Wikimedia Foundation's Anti-Harassment Tools team invites all Wikimedians to discuss new blocking tools and improvements to existing blocking tools in December 2017 for development work in early 2018.

How can you help?
 * 1) Share your ideas on the discussion page or send an email to the Anti-Harassment Tools team.
 * 2) Spread the word that the consultation is happening; this is an important discussion for making decisions about improving the blocking tools.
 * 3) Help with translation.
 * 4) If you know of previous discussions about blocking tools that happened on your wiki, share the links.

We are looking forward to learning your ideas.

For the Anti-Harassment Tools team SPoore (WMF), Community Advocate, Community health initiative (talk) 23:23, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

Tech News: 2017-50
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes
 * URLs that link to sections on Wikimedia wikis with non-Latin scripts have looked like this:  instead of  . This has now been fixed on all wikis. Old links will still work.
 * A new tag marks edits where a redirect was created or removed. This still works when the editor writes something else in the edit summary. You can see the tags for example in the recent changes feed, article history, user contributions or on your watchlist.
 * If you use Chrome on Android, you can now use the print to PDF button to create a PDF of an article.
 * Filter by number of edits or filter by time range have been grouped on a same menu on the recent changes page if you use the new filters. The "" link is now more prominent.
 * Some of the web fonts that were provided by the Universal Language Selector extension are being removed. This is to reduce the load time on pages. The web fonts were added many years ago to help users read text in scripts which did not have fonts or had broken fonts. This is not the case any more. You can check the status page for a list of all web fonts and whether they are currently being used and especially for special requirements.

Changes later this week
 * Octicons-sync.svg The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 12 December. It will be on non-Wikipedia wikis and some Wikipedias from 13 December. It will be on all wikis from 14 December (calendar).

Meetings
 * Octicons-sync.svg You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs you think are the most important. The meeting will be on 12 December at 19:30 (UTC). See how to join.
 * Octicons-tools.svg You can join the technical advice meeting on IRC. During the meeting, volunteer developers can ask for advice. The meeting will be on 13 December at 16:00 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes
 * You can discuss new or improved blocking tools with the Wikimedia Foundation Anti-Harassment Tools team. They will work on building better blocking tools. Leave comments on the talk page.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  17:58, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Interesting read on digital journalism
Of course, there are many of these but maybe someone will find this enlightening: https://traffic.piano.io/2017/12/11/the-information-doesnt-want-to-be-free/ —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 23:28, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Tech News: 2017-51
 Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Tech News
 * Because of the holidays the next issue of Tech News will be sent out on 8 January 2018.

Problems
 * When you import a page from another wiki the usernames of the users who edited the article on the wiki you imported it from are shown in the article history. This should link to the users on the original wiki. A script to fix this caused problems for Wikidata and German Wikipedia. It also created a large number of SUL accounts on wikis where editors had never edited.
 * Some bot owners got email about their bots logging in from a new computer. If this is from one or a couple of wikis, you can turn these messages off in your preferences on those wikis until the problem has been solved. If not, you can report more about the problem in Phabricator.

Changes later this week
 * There is no new MediaWiki version this week. There will be no new MediaWiki version next week either.

Meetings
 * Octicons-sync.svg You can join the next meeting with the Editing team. During the meeting, you can tell developers which bugs you think are the most important. The meeting will be on at 19:30 (UTC). See how to join.

Future changes
 * Files on Commons will have structured metadata in the future. The developers are now looking for examples of different kinds of metadata to make sure they are aware of them when they build prototypes for structured data on Commons. You can read more and help by giving examples of interesting media files.
 * The Structured Commons team are making sure Commons work with structured data. If you regularly contribute to Commons and Wikidata you can answer a survey that helps the team prioritise the tools that are important for the Commons and Wikidata communities. The survey ends on 22 December. You can read more on Commons. You can also help the team decide on better names for "captions" and "descriptions". This ends on 3 January 2018.
 * The 2017 Community Wishlist Survey has now ended. You can see the results. They decide what the Community Tech team will work on next year.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.  15:26, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Knowing how journalism works combats conspiratorial thinking
Original paper, popular article. —Justin ( koavf ) ❤T☮C☺M☯ 22:38, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Photo's Russian country houses
Interesting story (Wikidata-item- Russian news article is the original one) about images published with free license. Someone who wants to translate? --Livenws (talk) 15:24, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Um, afaik, on this project only User:Gryllida is an active native speaker of Russian. Without them, I do not think we would be able to do anything. •–• 16:34, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I translated into Dutch with the help of a translate machine, it's not a very complicated story. It would be nice if it were published here! :) --Livenws (talk) 16:40, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Machine translation -- gives me goosebumps. I don't trust it, and it is better if someone who knows Russian can help. can you find time for that article? The link is ru:Аэрофотосъемка 200 русских усадеб пожертвована Википедии. •–•  16:51, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * An anecdote I usually end up telling about how truly dreadful automatic translate is, is a story about some minister (from Turkey, maybe?) missing a meeting somewhere, and a (Turkish?) source automatic translation said he had been decapitated. Which seemed unlikely... though not quite as unlikely as it would be in some countries.  I did quite a lot of digging to deduce the decapitation was brainless translation of a passage saying he had a bad head cold (I suspect it may have involved an idiom similar to "sneezing one's head off").  I've encountered much worse, things that produce no warning signs like a claim of decapitation; like a Spanish source that I didn't realize was a press release because I couldn't pick up on the patterns of writing that only a fluent reader would be able to observe, and it made a big difference to the entire review that I didn't realize it was a press release.  We handle automatic translations with extreme skepticism.  --Pi zero (talk) 17:32, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * This is a fairly easy article to understand with translate machine, other articles can be different (like that of Turkey), but you could not miss much in this. --Livenws (talk) 17:53, 30 December 2017 (UTC)


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User talk:Riebennacht

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 03:07, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Riebennacht


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User talk:Llamaizfab

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 03:40, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Llamaizfab


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User talk:Thejacobkhelton

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 04:52, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Thejacobkhelton


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User talk:DanKohn

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 04:54, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:DanKohn


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User talk:Saurabh K.S.

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 05:13, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Saurabh K.S.


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User talk:Grandmabevx6

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 05:25, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Grandmabevx6


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User talk:D00m87

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 05:55, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:D00m87


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User talk:$!!remantee

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 06:13, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:$!!remantee


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User talk:Botclone

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 06:34, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Botclone


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User talk:Smellytap

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 07:18, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Smellytap


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User talk:Onenguo

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 09:37, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Onenguo


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User talk:太平天水圍聯邦政委

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 09:59, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:太平天水圍聯邦政委


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User talk:Adam Nohejl

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 10:50, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Adam Nohejl


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User talk:Victoriamedia

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 11:00, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Victoriamedia


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User talk:Yetanotherdrew

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 11:24, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Yetanotherdrew


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User talk:Tanishjain0403

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 12:00, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Tanishjain0403


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User talk:Krisbyron3

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 13:15, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Krisbyron3


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Saudi Arabia: Princes arrested after protesting austerity

January 8, 2018

On Thursday, eleven princes were arrested in, Saudi Arabia; authorities announced in a statement on Saturday. The princes were reportedly arrested for participating in a protest against austerity measures in the kingdom.

Authorities ascribed these arrests to a wider on corruption but did not name any of those arrested. Those arrested are being detained at. "No one is above the law in Saudi Arabia. Everyone is equal and is treated the same as others," said Saturday's official statement.

News of the protest and arrests first broke on Friday on a website known as Sabq. The Saudi royal family may number in the thousands, and the government recently announced an end to paying for their water and energy bills. The protest, which is being described as a at the Qasr al-Hokm  royal palace, was in opposition to the cuts in royal benefits, but also related to the murder conviction and execution of a cousin of theirs in 2016, calling for compensation for his death.

Crown Prince has been overseeing anti-corruption, austerity and social reforms programs since late last year, which included giving women the right to drive automobiles. Besides cutting the aforementioned benefits for members of the royal family, the austerity program has also included doubling domestic gasoline prices and levying new taxes on most goods and services. Offsetting some of these measures, stepped in, saying students, government employees and military personnel would receive cost-of-living allowances, according to the.


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User talk:ErikHuntingfield

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 14:08, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:ErikHuntingfield


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User talk:JuanitaCanter48

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 14:30, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

--Pi zero (talk) 14:39, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:JuanitaCanter48


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User talk:KowaiiBear

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 16:11, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:KowaiiBear


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User talk:Amater2001

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title: User talk:Amater2001


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User talk:Zazab04

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User talk:Kris1775

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 16:22, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Kris1775


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User talk:AntonTarasenko

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 16:36, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:AntonTarasenko


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User talk:Farfel1

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 16:46, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Farfel1


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User talk:Adnan sami lak

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 16:49, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Adnan sami lak


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User talk:Miketoral

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 17:22, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Miketoral


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User talk:Plastic syncretism

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 17:50, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Plastic syncretism


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User talk:Spoiledmsgirl

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 18:20, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Spoiledmsgirl


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User talk:Mr khalifa

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 19:04, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mr khalifa


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User talk:DaltonLink0

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 20:16, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:DaltonLink0


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User talk:Xp22a1

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 20:26, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Xp22a1


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User talk:RCava

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 22:04, 7 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:RCava


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User talk:Xoniz1999

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 00:28, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Xoniz1999


text: Template:Cover

title: Template:Cover


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User talk:Kirk Weaver

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 01:31, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Kirk Weaver


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User talk:Ktomshac

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 02:10, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Ktomshac


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Template talk:Cover

This is not Wikipedia content. Wikipedia content is in the Mainspace, just like Wikinews content is in the Mainspace. All these tools and things that Wikimedia projects share are not subject to those. --SVTCobra 02:33, 8 January 2018 (UTC) I am not a newbie when it comes to copyright and licenses. Besides, all the underlying code and who knows how many scripts are shared broadly across all of the Wikimedia Foundation's projects. And why wouldn't they? They are all owned by the same entity. None of us are autonomous, we are semi-autonomous. And that statement at the bottom appears on every page. Even if it is a page with a copyrighted image. Just look at. I know it is very complicated and it took me a very long time to learn the ins-and-outs of it. I hope you can trust me on this issue. I did learn something in almost 12 years here. --SVTCobra 03:07, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * try to edit the page from where you copied the content. See the licensing notice. Then see the licensing notice below this template page. Editors agree to license their content with specified license unless stated. There is no such licensing announcement for the template you stole. 223.237.193.159 (talk) 02:38, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * the source clearly states “Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License“ and and modification must be licensed under CC BY-SA. However, Wikinews has no SA clause in the reuse. 223.237.193.159 (talk) 02:44, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia’s licensing information is available at w:Wikipedia:Copyrights, which has no exception for templates. 223.237.193.159 (talk) 02:53, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Please read Compatible licenses. You will see that our licenses are mostly compatible. Furthermore, it is Wikipedia sharing with Wikinews, not the other way around. So the "ShareAlike" aspect applies. Also, modifications, such as those I made are perfectly acceptable.
 * text from Wikipedia has to be under same license of CC BY-SA. Wikinews’ content is not restricted for that. Wikipedia’s text is not or better say can not be used on Wikinews. The other way around is true. For the file discussion: as the footer note says “text is licensed” not the image.
 * TL;DR CC BY => CC BY-SA is okay. CC BY-SA => CC BY is not. 223.237.192.39 (talk) 03:26, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

See one way and two way compatibility about CC BY-SA and CC BY if you do not agree. There is a difference between almost same and exactly same. Moreover, just like authors of the article do not “own” the article, these contributions on Wikipedia is to be attributed to Wikipedia and the the individual users. 223.237.192.39 (talk) 03:29, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Well, if you don't read it, I guess I can't expect you to learn from that. So I will try to explain again, the licenses are about the Mainspace content. The things people write in articles. It is not about the code, the templates, the categories. Why do you think we can share the same mark-up language? It is because it is all under the auspices of the Wikimedia Foundation. We are legally one entity. Now, when you were arguing about WikiTribune, that was different. WikiTribune is not part of Wikimedia.--SVTCobra 03:36, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Even though it does not apply to templates (which are non-content), the one-way compatibility favors Wikinews. If you look at the very bottom of the page for each article, there are some words. On Wikinews, it says "must be attributed" ... on Wikipedia, those words do not exist. Therefore, Wikinews could actually copy entire Wikipedia articles (if we considered them a reliable source). That's the one way. But if you insist the licenses apply to templates, etc. (which it doesn't) you would have to admit we can copy/change/use things from Wikipedia. Is it clear yet? --SVTCobra 04:05, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I don’t know why is it so hard for you to understand. Saying “Wikinews can copy Wikipedia”, I don’t think you understand the licensing. (CC ) lemme quote what CC has to say “CC BY is one-way compatible with BY-SA. You may adapt a BY work and apply BY-SA to your contributions, but you may not adapt a BY-SA work and apply BY to your contributions.” and it applies to the text message of the template. 223.237.221.162 (talk) 04:57, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

 * 223. is right: you can't use CC-BY-SA content relicensed under CC-BY, otherwise the original intent of the creator in licensing it under CC-BY-SA is lost. You can take BY content and release a modified copy under BY-SA, but not vice versa, otherwise the SA clause would have no purpose. This does seem like a fairly trivial issue though since (a) this template isn't actually in use on the wiki, (b) a similar template could be written locally, and (c) we could just change how Wikinews deals with copyright by stating that some very limited, behind-the-scenes BY-SA stuff like this could be adopted on Wikinews so long as we have a template on the description page saying "this isn't BY, it's BY-SA, treat as appropriate". This seems like a storm in a teacup: there is a copyright problem, but there are simple ways to fix it. —Tom Morris (talk) 11:09, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thank you for explaining, Tom Morris. Re BY vs BY-SA; having few pages under different license would not be good idea, brings discontinuity, and would appear shady. I remember there was a proposal regarding having all Wikimedia projects under same license (BY-SA [4.0?]) But BY-SA is not as open/free as BY, and if Wikinews wants to shift to a lesser open/free license, which I don’t support, it would surely take time and discussion. Re twelve years experience, others can be aware of the things, too. 223.237.255.164 (talk) 11:36, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Technically, Ambox and perhaps, its derivative xambox are also copied from Wikipedia, and therefore I created (and suggested) msgbox. 223.237.255.164 (talk) 11:41, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * On a side note, notice Wikidata’s (CC 0) delete template is different from Wikipedia’s (CC BY-SA 3.0). 223.237.255.164 (talk) 11:44, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

Since this has been nominated for deletion, I think all parties (including ), should make their comments there. But, I will be sure to address the concerns anyway. --SVTCobra 12:32, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

title: Template talk:Cover


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User talk:223.237.193.159

If you are who we think you are, Pi zero tells me you are a great person and an asset to the project. It seems you feel some animosity towards me, and I would like to resolve that, however, your current behavior feels disruptive to the Wikinews project and I would not be wrong to give you a temporary block per WN:POINT. I would like to resolve this issue for the betterment of Wikinews. Cheers, --SVTCobra 02:48, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * For WN:POINT, one would be disrupting the project to establish a point. Can’t remember trying to establish a point, or disrupting the project. Neither tried to, or want to discuss anything with you. Consider it like this: I may be you know who but I am not parseltongue. You would not understand half the things going on due to lack of continuity, not that I blame you for that. But there are editors who know exactly what I am saying. Block me, I don’t care. 223.237.193.159 (talk) 03:02, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * But you are. It may not be a specific example in the policy, but your never-ending debates are disruptive. You adamantly refuse to see the other side of a person's argument. You post from a myriad of IPs. You revert edits with reasons such as "that's not good enough". But I do not wish to block you. On the other hand, I think you should stop asking for blocks on yourself, and de-reviewer, and resigning your accreditation. What the heck was the purpose of that? If you need a break, just take a break. I know I can be hard-headed, too, but I am not thin-skinned. I don't quit if someone says something I don't like.
 * It is detrimental to Wikinews if you decide you don't like SVTCobra, and then attack almost every edit he makes. That's what I consider "disruptive", because the truth is, and I think you have to admit it, most of my edits are beneficial to Wikinews. I have cleared entire backlogs in one day, yet you seem like you want to chase me away. I will treat you with more respect, if you do the same for me. Cheers, --SVTCobra 03:25, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * if Pi zero told you about how I am, I am damn sure they would have told you that I actually wanted Wikinewsies older than me to be back on project for ever. You are doing this just because Pi zero told you something, not because you wanted to. If I had triggered POINT, Pi zero would have blocked me, because I have been, for a day. I have some pending work on the project. I need to get it done I am am never coming back, and this time, I mean it. I would eventually lose reviewer right ms due to PeP, best if my name is removed from the list so that it does not give a needy editor false hopes. It so happens that I receive emails for the backlog you have tackled, and since I created these requests, I would make sure it has a proper hearing. Anyway, I think you are doing just because of Pi zero’s remarks. Don’t do it. Despite the edits, I always wanted veterans to be back. But there is no point discussing it. 223.237.255.68 (talk) 07:49, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:223.237.193.159


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Talk:Saudi Arabia: Princes arrested after protesting austerity

Review of revision 4374467 [Passed]
"Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman has been overseeing anti-corruption, austerity and social reforms programs since late last year, which included giving women the right to drive automobiles" -- he supported, but did not "give" the right (prince Alwaleed bin Talal issued a statement in support of eradicating this ban). Decree has to be signed by the king, so it is not entirely true to say the prince gave the right. 223.237.201.153 (talk) 18:51, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * From a practical perspective, the question becomes, what change to the text is proposed? Keeping in mind that substantive changes are possible for the next... eight hours or so, is it?  Also keeping in mind that the current text of this article does not say the prince gave the the right, it says he oversaw the reforms.  --Pi zero (talk) 19:18, 8 January 2018 (UTC)


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Israel issues travel ban on 20 non-government organizations over pro-Palestinian boycotts

January 10, 2018

On Sunday, Israel's Ministry of Strategic Affairs published a list of 20 specific non-government organizations (NGOs) now forbidden to enter the country. These organizations were associated with the (BDS), which supports  of Israel as a state and other actions as a means of protesting Israel's treatment of Palestine.

"Forming the list is another step in our struggle against the incitement and lies of the boycott organizations, and no state would allow visitors who come to harm the state to enter it, and certainly with the goal of destroying Israel as a Jewish state," Minister of Strategic Affairs Gilad Erdan told the press.

The proscribed organizations include the BDS organizations from France, Italy, Chile, and South Africa, BDS national committee, and BDS Kampagne; the, the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign, the European Coordination of Committees and Associations for Palestine, Friends of Al-Aqsa, the Palestine Committee of Norway, , , and the Palestine Solidarity Association of Sweden from Europe; and , U.S. Campaign for Palestinian Rights, National Students for Justice in Palestine, , , and the from the United States. "Friends" is another name for the Quakers, a Christian sect with egalitarianism as a central tenet. Officials from these organizations and any activist known to be associated may be barred from entering Israel. Other public figures who advocate boycotts of Israel, such as the mayors of towns, may also be denied entry. The American Friends Service Committee was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1947 for its work helping refugees displaced by World War II; principally, noted Israeli newspaper , families of Jewish refugees married to non-Jews.

"For me as a Palestinian, it means a lot that they are going to ban me from going to see my family and people. It is absolutely horrible," said Fatin al-Tamimi, head of the Ireland Palestine Solidarity Campaign.

Israeli Minister of the Interior Arye Derry issued a statement: "These people are trying to exploit the law and our hospitality to act against Israel and to defame the country. I will act against this by every means."

Rebecca Vilkomerson, executive director of one of the listed groups, Jewish Voice for Peace, responded on Facebook, "As someone with considerable family in Israel, this policy will be a personal hardship. But I am also heartened by this indicator of the BDS movement's growing strength, and hope that it will bring the day closer when just as I go to visit my friends and family in Israel, so will Palestinian friends and colleagues be able to return home."

Human rights groups sharply criticized the prohibition as opposing free speech.


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Contributing
Hi. The page you created really seemed advert-ish, which we don't allow under our neutrality policy; however, if you are interested in contributing here, I suggest reading WN:PILLARS, a compact overview of what we do, then WN:WRITE is a good tutorial on writing an article. There's also a short step-by-step description of writing a first article on the Howdy message at the top of this page. --Pi zero (talk) 14:24, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

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Talk:Israel issues travel ban on 20 non-government organizations over pro-Palestinian boycotts

Style
I realize this article is still being developed, but what's with the all-caps "BECAUSE THE UN HAS CLASSIFIED BOYCOTTS AS FREE SPEECH CONFIRM THIS." --SVTCobra 14:15, 8 January 2018 (UTC)

 * You have it exactly: those are production notes. The all caps are so that the article cannot go into review without those issues first being addressed, either by me or by a colleague.  This isn't Wikipedia, so the article doesn't have to be presentable throughout all stages of its life cycle.  Same with your other issue: Of course I wouldn't hit review with only one source, but an unpublished draft doesn't need two or even one.  I didn't have time to find a second source just then, but that didn't mean no one did.  I often start a draft and put it in the development hopper. I usually end up finishing them myself, but sometimes someone else will pick up where I left off.  And sometimes I pick up where other people left off.  This is a collaborative project after all.
 * By all means, whenever you see notes in caps or only one source, feel free to jump in. Darkfrog24 (talk) 19:31, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

 * We strongly recommend not starting to write until after one has multiple sources and have read them all.  --Pi zero (talk) 19:35, 9 January 2018 (UTC)

Review of revision 4374840 [Not ready]

 * So something's too similar to something else. Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:50, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I reread all three sources, and I see the problem with the last line but not with the opening paragraph. There's just not much in here that isn't a direct quote or a list. Darkfrog24 (talk) 20:59, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I recomend dupdet; as a technological artifact it lacks understanding of what it detects, but it makes a useful starting point for a prelim check. --Pi zero (talk) 21:06, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * This gizmo says we're good. Darkfrog24 (talk) 21:12, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It isn't a binary test. It can sometimes help by providing clues to problem areas for a human to look at more closely, when trying to find things sooner rather than later.  It worries me some that, checking the diffs for the changes you made, you're going about addressing these things by introducing synonyms, which is specifically one of the worst things that can be done, arguably worse than verbatim copying in that, at scale, it doesn't eliminate plagiary but makes it harder to detect on casual inspection (instead it turns up, stressfully, during in-depth review).  As I often remark when I make small changes to address such problems during review, the things I'm able to do as a reviewer are hobbled by the limitations on what a reviewer can do without self-disqualifying, and should not be taken as a model of how to fix such problems as a reporter.  Wholly rearranging the grammatical structure is better, and better still is to distributing information such that bits of information from each source sentence are scattered all hither-and-yon across the synthesis article, while bits of information in a synthesis sentence are from all hither-and-yon across the sources.  --Pi zero (talk) 21:49, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * "Specifically one of the worst things" according to whom? Is there some text or manual you're consulting? Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:17, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Just reread the WPA on plagiarism; it's not in there, but that's kind of not what WPA does. Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:37, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Hm. Seems to me that you tend to ground things in style guides, rules; while I tend to ground things in intuitive principles, structures in the Platonic realm.  Broadly speaking; that's a start at describing how we think differently, anyway; I see the difference in thinking modes intuitively, which is sticky as it may be a route to understanding that works better for someone on my side of the difference.  Further confusing things, you may understand the word "intuition" differently than I do.  (I'm reminded of .)  Ugh; what a tangle. At any rate, what you've got as your primary resource is a living repository of knowledge, namely me, that afaics you have, how to put this, limited trust in, perhaps ultimately because we do think differently; and what you want is, seemingly, a set of written guidelines.  I'm not without sympathy for the problem of not having available the tool one could most readily use.  In the specific instance, the synonym thing is mentioned at WN:Plagiarism, for whatever that is worth from your perspective.  --Pi zero (talk) 23:20, 9 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Here's why I asked: If you are relying on something based on your own experience, then it exists inside your head. I do not mean "in your head" in the sense of "not real" but rather in the sense of "inaccessible to other people," in this case myself.  If you were relying on a manual of some kind, I could ask which one and gain access to it.  I had been planning to ask you to write an essay, effectively transferring your knowledge from inside your head to outside of it, but if one already exists, great.  EDIT: Turns out it doesn't.  Consider an essay.
 * The other problem is that you don't want me to rely on intuition in general but often seem to want me to prefer your intuition to my own, to submit to you. On Project Wiki, you are not my superior but my equal.  Professional published guides and journalists' resources, on the other hand, are superior to us both in this specific respect.  It is appropriate for you to say, "I want you to refer to this specific reference used by professional journalists" but not appropriate for you to say, "disregard your own judgment and habits and use mine." I find it quite disturbing, actually.  I've deliberately toned it down for this post.
 * I've seen you get offended when I call myself your equal, so it might help if you look at it this way: I am a volunteer who is at least partially anonymous and has not presented any verifiable professional journalistic credentials. So are you.
 * It is not you specifically, Pi zero. My knowledge of you gives me reason to value your opinions and conclusions that do not pertain to strangers.  I would be creeped out if any one person told me to do that.
 * EDIT: I see WN:PLAGIARISM is a draft of a guideline. That would explain why I don't remember seeing it before.  EDIT2: Okay, I read it.  It's more "why plagiarism is bad," on which we are on the same page, and less "specific techniques and expectations," which is what I was expecting.
 * I do not consider our current discussion to pertain to the readiness of this article specifically, anyone in the review team, she is ready for you. Darkfrog24 (talk) 01:14, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It is moderately, though not perfectly, separate from the specific article, with the caveat that the measures you took are less than ideal exactly because of this point. A typical remark I'll not-uncommonly use in review comments would be, "Do not copy passages from the sources; also, do not copy passages and then 'scuff them up' with superficial changes like substituting 'synonoms' or simply changing tenses or the like, which does not avoid accusations of plagiary."  I recall BRS imitated the phrasing (implying approval of the sentiment), though for me scuff up is familiar phrasing whereas I guess for BRS it seemed more like dialect, which is how I ended up imitating BRS's use of quotes around "scuff them up". A great deal of what we have on various aspects of our best practices is in drafts, essays, message templates... it's all over the place, really, as writing really well-organized documents about these things is incredibly difficult and we would have to give up entirely on ever publishing any news in order to devote all our time to it — a plan with obvious failings, such as (a) producing news is what motivates us, so if the project were about writing documents about how to write news, none of us would be here; and (b) without our hands-on experience producing news, we wouldn't be qualified to write about how to do it.  (I suppose I'm saying that without the actual news production, we wouldn't write up our practices and if we did there'd be no reason for anyone to read them.) When I have to tell people, in review comments, to read up on the copyright/plagiarism issue, I generally say there is some compact advice at WN:PILLARS and discussion at WN:Plagiarism; you are quite right that WN:Plagiarism is mainly about why it's bad.  There's meta-discussion about that essay on its talk page, too.  However, you were asking if the point about synonyms is written down somewhere, so I mentioned that it does get a bit of a mention there.  Some time ago I did, in fact, start to attempt an essay for which I had what I thought a great title, "How to use sources without plagiary".  The effort fell apart because I felt that a flat text would fail to convey the message:  I wanted something interactive, to try to share with the essay's audience the eye-opening experience of seeing the mapping of information from sources to synthesis in a really well-written synthesis article, which I had experienced from actually doing a review of such an article and have been trying ever since to figure out how to share with newbies.  If you're morbidly curious, my early efforts toward that essay are at User:Pi zero/essays/How to use sources without plagiary. I'm aware of not articulating well this difference I see in modes of thinking. --Pi zero (talk) 01:56, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * There is no time limit on finding a way to express yourself and you've earned being listened to.
 * I think what's going on is that you see yourself as offering your experience as a resource, but it is really not coming off that way. Not to the point where I'd tell you not to approach anyone else.  I could see a kid who has no experience of their own to draw on reacting well to it, but it's been bothering me a lot.  Making an offer is being nice but I've given you "no thanks" for an answer many times by now.
 * And that's not hypothetical. I actually do have some professional-level experience that I'm drawing on.  I don't want to go into detail.  Maybe that will make you feel better about my preferring my own judgement to yours in the absence of verifiable sources. Darkfrog24 (talk) 03:48, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Read the essay draft. Viewed the source you used.  I actually have a copy of Hacker's style manual right here on my shelf. Darkfrog24 (talk) 03:52, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * To be clear, I didn't use Hacker, and the Further reading list there isn't a list of where I got my info from. I don't think I've ever seen Hacker; but I did notice that, as remarked, both of those other resources cited Hacker. I'd kind of gotten the impression you might have journalistic experience of some sort and degree; I can't say it makes me feel better, or worse, but it is useful perspective, for which I thank you.  There are some things about the likenesses and differences of Wikinews to/from traditional journalism that I don't think you've quite grokked, which seems to me to be mostly about understanding Wikinews, with conceivably a bit of being too close to traditional journalism to clearly see some things about it. There are two deep aspects of Wikinews that I've yet to figure how to explain for you.  The two, btw, are not separate, but entangled with each other.  One, Wikinews approaches expertise differently than Wikipedia does.  Two, the underlying principles of Wikinews form a coherent whole in the Platonic realm.  How are those entangled?  Well, the underlying principles are intuitive, and that intuitive coherence is part of what makes the approach to expertise work.  Which is also where those (perhaps odd-seeming) remarks I made about different ways of thinking come into play.  The coherent intuition needs to be shared across a core cadre of Wikinewsies, and that only works if that group of individuals have sufficiently similar minds that the common intuition can settle comfortably into all of them.  But not everyone has the same cognitive type (I've some peripheral background on cognitive types); it seems the shared intuition of Wikinews principles is not really of the right... er... shape for all types of minds, or at least parts of it aren't, and even if some parts can exist comfortably in all cognitive types, communicating intuitions between distant cognitive types can be quite problematic.  I've conjectured that that's part of why I've been short of luck in some of my explanations to you.  -Pi zero (talk) 05:20, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I was more commenting on how the conversation had come full circle and, intentionally or not, you have directed me toward the resource I asked about—and my copy has an instructional section and it confirms that you're right on a lot of points here. You have backed up what you said.  Maybe you didn't use Hacker, but I'm fine with using Hacker.
 * The problem might be that you're trying to do a job that does not belong to just one person. Even if you wrote an essay that perfectly expressed your ideas, they would still be the ideas of one person with no verified credentials.  Although it would be wise to listen to you, no one individual would have any reason to obey you.  We don't have enough people to use consensus the way we do on Wikipedia, but deferring professionally published sources still works. Darkfrog24 (talk) 13:32, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Ultimately, there is no reason for anyone to believe anyone else, ever. Since things like Cogito ergo sum are not generally accepted as unassailable reasoning.  I don't mean to be flippant about it, either, but rather to bring out an important practical point; the bottom line, when I say something and you choose not to believe me, is that you choose not to believe me.  And there is nothing I can do about your choice except that, if it assures you will not understand Wikinews, I can regret it, and continue to discuss things with you in case additional bandwidth makes a difference.  (There is some similarity to our erstwhile discussions about quotation punctuation, though that's not encouraging, just possibly a useful analogy.) I have observed that the concept of consensus as conceived and practiced on Wikipedia has a flaw, to do with time and the input of past contributors.  I've occasionally observed the flaw in action on Wikipedia, although for various reasons (both to do with Wikipedia and to do with the other projects I contribute to) my Wikipedian activity has declined greatly so I've had fewer and fewer opportunities to observe phenomena on Wikipedia lately.  When I expanded my horizons to include Wikibooks, I was immediately confronted by the reality that on Wikibooks, consensus treats time rather differently than it does on Wikipedia; I didn't at first think of it in those terms, but it was one of the first things I experienced on Wikibooks.  I later further expanded my horizons to include Wikinews, and the difference in treatment of time is even more extreme here, with a related side helping of attitude toward expertise.  I recall trying to articulate this for you before, without success (hard to say how much of that was failure to articulate, or failure to articulate sufficiently, versus how much was choice-not-to-believe... if there is indeed a meaningful difference between those).  At any rate, it's all an aspect of the whole Wikinews-works-differently-than-Wikipedia thing.  --Pi zero (talk) 14:13, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually there are reasons for people to believe each other: evidence and verified credentials.
 * "You choose not to believe me" puts way too much of this on me. There is also the partially objective matter of whether you've made a convincing case or provided any sources.  "Do as I say because I say so, because I'm me and you're you.  It is for me to order and for you to obey" is degrading.  After all, there are matters on which I've made convincing cases and provided sources and you have persisted in your own view nonetheless. You get to do that. It's no insult to me personally, and my preferring my own judgement to yours is no insult to you.
 * I get the impression that you want to mentor someone. That someone isn't me.  I decline.  Maybe our next round of journalism students will provide you with a relationship that satisfies you. Darkfrog24 (talk) 15:09, 10 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Someone comes to the project, not knowing things they need to know about the project. There's a general path, with lots of variations of course, by which they hopefully learn about the project; largely, by watching what happens and receiving feedback from reviewers, with some reading of available project documentation mixed in.  As they learn, two things happen.  The articles they submit are of higher and higher quality, not necessarily in details but rather in deep principles, stuff that when off kilter can be hightly stressful for a reviewer, so that reviewing their articles becomes immensely easier.  And somewhere along the way they move into "colleague" territory in their relationship to the inner circle of Wikinewsies.  A great deal of this relies on the new user catching on to the intuitive pattern of the underlying principles.  Catching the pattern is what allows them to keep improving so as to reach the point where their articles get much easier to review, and others recognizing that they've caught the pattern is key in the colleague-status thing.  So when someone doesn't make that catch, they stop moving along the path, and those two good things that ought to happen after a while, don't.  The project works best when they do happen. My part in all this?  I've been systematically sucking in knowledge (intuition as well as information) about the project; Wikinews, with its reliance of expertise, needs stronger passing-on of living tradition than, say, Wikipedia, at the same time it has fewer people to do the passing on, and so here I've been, soaking this stuff up and sharing it with others.  (A particular case, btw, is the reminder list at WN:Tips on reviewing articles, which has quite a few links back to where stuff is mentioned.)  Depending on circumstances, my exchanges of knowledge-base with people could be mostly one-way or two-way.  I've no first-hand knowledge of the thing Wikipedians these days call "mentoring", though it sounds a bit on the rigid side.  --Pi zero (talk) 17:15, 10 January 2018 (UTC)


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text: Comments:French fry 'king' J. R. Simplot dies at age 99


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Thread:Comments:French fry 'king' J. R. Simplot dies at age 99/comment

i think that it is kinds sad he died and i like his fries.


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United States: At least fifteen dead in Southern California after rain causes mudslides and floods

January 11, 2018

On Tuesday, the first major rain storm of the year in led to flooding that has caused at least fifteen deaths, mainly in. The flooding was exacerbated by ; particularly hard-hit was the wealthy community of, downstream of the site of the , where at least six houses were destroyed. More than 160 people have been hospitalized, four in critical condition.

According to the United States, five and a half inches of rain has fallen over two days in parts of , and more than four inches in parts of Santa Barbara County. In areas burned by the wildfires, ground cover that would have reduced runoff had been destroyed, and an impermeable layer of ash and burned soil had been created. As a result, torrents of mud ran downhill and inundated places such as Montecito. Mike Eliason, a spokesman for the, said homes in the wealthy community had been "wiped away from their foundations" by mudflows, which also burst a gas main, leading to a fire that destroyed another building.

Sections of the were closed by flooding; a driver told television station  that mud came "out of nowhere" and covered the highway in "about five seconds" and that he was glad he was still alive. James Cook, the Los Angeles correspondent for BBC News, reported that roads were being blocked by "boulders the size of small cars" which had tumbled down the hills. BBC also reported, 300 people had been trapped in. Bill Brown, the, said at mid-afternoon that the number of deaths had reached thirteen and might rise. He described the flood-ravaged areas as looking "like a World War I battlefield" and said that emergency dispatchers had fielded some 600 calls between 3:00 and 6:00 am. Emergency services including the Ventura County Aviation Unit were kept busy rescuing people. The sent aircraft to assist. Spokesmen reported fifty people had been rescued in each of Los Angeles and Santa Barbara Counties. Montecito resident, Berkeley Johnson, told the Santa Barbara Independent that he and his wife had taken refuge on the roof of their house but climbed came down when they heard a child crying. With a fireman's help were able to dig out a two-year-old girl, who looked like a "muddy doll" according to Johnson.

Officials issued evacuation orders on Monday for thousands of people living in Santa Barbara,, and counties, but Montecito was under only voluntary evacuation. Some of the evacuation orders were lifted later on Tuesday as the rain became lighter.


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Hi! TheRumbler (talk) 15:25, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Anna Popplewell
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