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Talk:United States: State of Hawaii criticized by head of Federal Communications Commission over incoming missile alert mistake

Image credit for the screenshot
I know that Commons lists Apple as a source for this image; but it seems dubious to give Apple credit for a screenshot taken off of one of their phones. It makes it look like they are somehow responsible for the message. If I made a screenshot with my computer, I would not credit the image to the maker of my computer. I don't know if it is right to credit The New York Times, either. Since the image is PD-Ineligible, we are not obligated to credit/attribute anybody, which is why I didn't do so. --SVTCobra 16:10, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Did you read above before reverting? --SVTCobra 16:22, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

 * No, our edits passed like ships in the night.
 * Hm. Well, maybe; I see the point you're making.  My initial reaction (per edit summary) was, always give 'em more credit than they deserve.  --Pi zero (talk) 16:24, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * If you take a screenshot of, let’s say Libre Office Writer on a Windows system, credit goes to Libre Office and not to Microsoft. Similarly, in this case it goes to iOS, but since iOS is Apple's software, in turn it goes to them. Just like how Pixar's Academy Awards are counted for Disney. 223.237.217.109 (talk) 18:57, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but that's doesn't work here, does it? This was a screenshot of a text message on an Apple system, so credit goes to the text message (if I follow you). Also, the implication of what you are saying, is that Apple owns everything that passes across the screen of their phones, which is patently false. --SVTCobra 22:18, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

I have changed the image credit to read: "via The New York Times". This is accurate (yet, imo, unnecessary) and does not suggest that they wrote the message. I do not know how NYT got the screenshot. Maybe they have a reporter in Hawaii, maybe a reader sent it to them via Twitter. All we know is it was first published by NYT and uploaded to Commons as PD-Ineligible and reportedly off an iPhone, but without EXIF data we don't know that. If reverted, I shan't fight it no more. --SVTCobra 23:11, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

Article name
Does the article name have to be so long? Why not:
 * Hawaii criticized by Federal Communications Commission over incoming missile alert mistake

or even a snappier:
 * Hawaii criticized for incoming missile alert mistake

I don’t really see the value of such a long title. Green Giant (talk) 23:16, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

 * There has been a lot of emphasis on identifying the country in the title as of late. But, yes, it could be shortened and possibly should per WN:Headline. But I don't see major harm.--SVTCobra 23:37, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

 * Although we generally avoid post-publish renames unless there's an actual mistake, in this case if it hadn't already been published (and if I thought of it, as it's really easy to forget to double-check the headline just before publishing), I think I'd at least drop the first four words. Headlines should give the reader enough, but they can't contain everything; one has to strike a balance.  (I bungled the airborne car thing by not adding "California", then overcompensated with "California, US".  Go figure.)  --Pi zero (talk) 01:18, 17 January 2018 (UTC)


text: Comments:United States: State of Hawaii criticized by head of Federal Communications Commission over incoming missile alert mistake

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


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User talk:Andro Musik

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Uploads
Do not upload copyrighted music to Wikinews.: --SVTCobra 10:41, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

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Thread:Comments:United States: State of Hawaii criticized by head of Federal Communications Commission over incoming missile alert mistake/Surprising

I am surprised that Ajit Pai and the FCC is taking the lead on this. Maybe they feel they need some better PR after the whole net neutrality repeal. I would have thought this would have been more for Homeland Security and FEMA. But what do I know? As they say, the government works in mysterious ways.


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Template:Cc-by-nd-2.5-in/doc

Usage
You can use this template by adding   on the file page (e.g. in the Licensing section or the Permission line of the  template). If you wish to specify the manner in which a reproduction of the work must be attributed, use   instead.

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Template talk:Image info

Caption/Description
flag

is right. The field in this template that is currently called "Caption" should be changed to "Description". I would just change it, but I fear it would break every image page that makes use of this template. I would appreciate some input on this. Cheers, --SVTCobra 22:09, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Um. What is the issue here?  That is, what is the significance of using one parameter name rather than another?  --Pi zero (talk) 22:16, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The edit history on this File:2017 Bangalore ComicCon (media) IMG 0107.JPG and this discussion User_talk:Acagastya, should catch you up to speed. Cheers, --SVTCobra 22:24, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * This should be in your wheelhouse, so I ping you in case you are still online. --SVTCobra 22:28, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Having looked at all that, I believe I had seen it already; but the issue still does not leap out at me. Is it perhaps that acagastya is objecting to having something called "caption" that isn't what xe chooses it to be?  I would think a simple solution — unless there is some reason this wouldn't solve it — would be to modify the template so that it will take either a parameter called "description" or, failing that, one called "caption".  Or possibly one called "caption" or, failing that, one called "description".  --Pi zero (talk) 22:37, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Sure, having both might work to not break the system. What I want to achieve out of this, is the ability of Wikinews to describe the image hosted by Wikinews and not be held hostage to the uploader's assertion that "caption" infringes on their license. And since the documentation points to Commons and they have long since changed to "description" that's why I thought that was the way to go. Is it as simple as it seems to add "description" as a parameter? How do we make the empty one not show up if we have both? Or does that part even matter? --SVTCobra 22:56, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Much obliged for the ping. Hmm... Aside from the template name, when I first became more active here, I found it a little unusual to use "Caption" compared to the similar templates on other wikis e.g. w:Template:Information or c:Template:Information. I just assumed that it was something peculiar to this wiki. I'm not sure that I agree with about the author getting to solely decide the caption. I took the advice of looking through the license documentation and can’t see anything to suggest that the author is the only one to decide the caption/description. You can decide the elements of the license, the number of licenses, and the manner of attribution but not much else. At Commons we have numerous free-licensed images where the author has played no part other than to upload their own work to Flickr for example - the uploader to Commons might decide the initial description but it can be modified by someone else. I’m not suggesting for one second that Acagastya is a baddie but to take the example further, we can rename files if the filename needs changing, otherwise someone could upload a file with a bad name. Equally I don't see much advantage to not having a Caption/Description in a file summary page. On the question of changing it from caption to description, I think there are three options: a) leave it as it is; b) change the wording to “Description”; c) have both as options if there is a good reason to retain “Caption”. Unless there is a bot to change the many file summaries I’d suggest option c) but not making it compulsory to have both. It could be done by including "Description" as an optional element in the same manner as "Other_versions". I think it would need a  added to each element but I’m not a coder so I’m not sure. See mw:Switch for something of an explanation. Green Giant (talk) 23:06, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I propose to change the label on the field to "Description", and its value to, which is the value of the description parameter if provided, otherwise the value of the caption parameter.  I'll probably implement that change very soon unless I notice that someone has objected before I get to it (after all, it's not like it can't be undone, or modified, if someone were to object later).  --Pi zero (talk) 23:19, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me. --SVTCobra 23:26, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ --Pi zero (talk) 23:31, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I looked at half a dozen random images and they don't seem to have been broken by the change. Closing flag. Thanks, Pi zero. --SVTCobra 23:43, 16 January 2018 (UTC)

the reuse should have proper attribution and it should not suggest endorsement. That file have a template which says source as "own work" and author "acagastya" and having a caption suggests acagastya has captioned it…but I have not, I do not, and a description suggests what is in the photo without any sort of ambiguity about endorsement. •–• 08:38, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

title: Template talk:Image info


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United States: One person dead after boat to offshore casino burns off Florida coast

January 17, 2018

On Sunday, a boat ferrying people to a floating casino in the caught fire and burned near, Florida, US. All 50 passengers aboard abandoned ship and jumped into the sea, but one died in hospital that evening.

Beth Fifer, assistant chief executive of the Tropical Breeze Casino Cruise, said that the fire started at about 3:30 PM, local time, as the boat was outbound to the casino. According to Gerard DeCanio, the police chief of, the captain saw smoke coming from the engine and turned back, then grounded the boat in shallow water. The boat was rapidly engulfed in flames. Those aboard had to jump about ten feet into waist-high water and swim or wade ashore to safety. The police said that about fifteen were treated at local hospitals, including for possible from exposure to the cold sea water. The one fatality, a 42-year-old woman, went to the emergency room at Regional Medical Center Bayonet Point hours later and died at 10:42 p.m., according to Kurt Conover, a spokesman for the medical center and Kevin Doll, a spokesman for the.

Passenger Qaadia Culbreath told that he couldn't swim and didn't see any life jackets, so he found himself "dangling off the metal hanger in the front of the boat because I didn't want to let go". Andrew Fossa, deputy fire chief of, described locals who assisted the passengers as they scrambled to shore as "phenomenal".

According to police chief DeCanio, the boat captain had reported engine trouble on earlier trips. Fifer said, "It would've never left the dock if we knew something was wrong with it." The has announced that they will review maintenance records. The casino operates offshore, requiring a boat to ferry gamblers to and fro, because casino gambling is not legal in the state of Florida.


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Irish rock band The Cranberries' lead singer Dolores O'Riordan dies at 46

January 18, 2018 On Monday, 46-year-old, lead singer of Irish rock band , was found dead, her publicist Lindsey Holmes confirmed; reports suggested she was found in her room at the hotel. O'Riordan's agent said she was in London, England, for a recording session. According to the police, her death was considered "unexplained" and no cause of death disclosed, though it was to be investigated. Later one of the richest women of Ireland, O'Riordan joined the rock band, then known as "the Cranberry Saw Us", as a teenager around 1989, after Niall Quinn had left the band. Also featuring Fergal Lawler,  Mike Hogan and his brother, the lead , the band released their first album  in 1993. The debut album featuring single  was an international success. The band went on to release six more albums featuring O'Riordan's voice, including , which was released last year.

A year later, in 1994, the band released their second studio album, ', which featured the song ', a song about bombings related to Northern Ireland. Zombie topped the singles charts in various countries. In the same year, O'Riordan married Don Burton, sometime manager of the band. Their third album, , was released in 1996. The album did not receive the acclamation of the first two.

In 2003, the band split, and it was reunited in 2009. During those six years, O'Riordan released two solo albums — ' in 2007 and ' in 2009. 2012's Roses was the first album The Cranberries released after reunification.

Last year, O'Riordan revealed through London's Metro newspaper she had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder. She also spoke of suffering from depression to . In 2014, the singer was involved in assaulting a flight attendant and three police officials on a flight from New York, US to Ireland. She was fined €6000 (US$6600) after she pleaded guilty; medical reports said she suffered from mental illness during that incident. Last year, the band's tour to North America and Europe for  was cancelled partway through as O'Riordan suffered from a back problem.

After announcement of O'Riordan's death, Irish prime minister Leo Varadkar tweeted, "For anyone who grew up in Ireland in the 1990s, Dolores O'Riordan was the voice of a generation. As the female lead singer of a hugely successful rock band, she blazed a trail and might just have been 's greatest ever rock star. RIP."

The official twitter handle of The Cranberries posted a tweet saying, "We are devastated on the passing of our friend Dolores. She was an extraordinary talent and we feel very privileged to have been part of her life from 1989 when we started the Cranberries. The world has lost a true artist today."

Born on September 6, 1971 in, a town in southeastern Ireland, O'Riordan had six older siblings. She wrote songs since the age of twelve. James Walton, a priest from her home area, said, "The plan is for her to be buried here at home. When that will be will depend on when her body is released."

Dolores O'Riordan is survived by three children and ex-husband Don Burton.


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User talk:Mutter Erde

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Talk:Irish rock band The Cranberries' lead singer Dolores O'Riordan dies at 46

It is not publishable in its current form, with poor machine translation and style, not to forget the foreign language sources — I am taking the bullet so a reviewer does not disqualify… •–• 08:42, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * that whole lot of biography chunk is encyclopaedic and is not acceptable. Anonymous condolences — there are supporters and haters of every band, there always is some sort of condolence — but from someone who has a unique like/dislike relationship with the one who died is surely point of interest. •–• 08:45, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * some of the sources I would be using:

 * 1) http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-42703888
 * 2) https://washingtonpost.com/entertainment/music/dolores-oriordan-voice-of-the-cranberries-dies-at-46/2018/01/15/4139dffc-fa56-11e7-9b5d-bbf0da31214d_story.html
 * 3) https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/obituaries/2018/01/15/dolores-riordan-lead-singer-cranberries/8TE6vhRoXS4lrujYBt4cOO/story.html
 * 4) https://www.yahoo.com/news/dolores-o-apos-riordan-dead-170400920.html
 * 5) https://www.yahoo.com/news/dolores-o-apos-riordan-set-083700166.html •–•  08:57, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * do not cause an ec, I don’t want to face that problem on my mobile. I have pending edits to be saved. •–• 08:59, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * That crappy Boston Globe paywall would not let me access via incognito. Paywall can be bypassed, still can't see the full content. Kind of tricky. Can anyone else access it? [Since I was forced to use Chrome to access it, (which I hate to) I am not using it]. •–• 11:11, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Did you use machine translation? The translation was not up to the mark, and the YouTube links for the singles should either be avoided, or used as external link, in any case, it should never look like Wikinews is trying to promote it. Having a biography section (try to avoid sections for news articles) is encyclopedic, and should be avoided. However for an obituary, it is mostly the age old information of what that person did, there should be continuity in the tone. Try to use English sources, so that it is easier to review. The article was re-written from scratch, hence I have removed the link to Portuguese article (If the article is published, it will have a link to Portuguese article on the left hand side, by the Wikidata linkage). But if it were not to be re-written, a translated news article should have Translated Wikinews template -- that does not eliminate requirement of two mutually independent sources. Make use of w and Wikt to create links to Wikipedia and Wiktionary. •–• 13:18, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Review of revision 4376613 [Not ready]
maybe you want to tell what all you could not find. [if you wait, the photo would load] •–• 16:00, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * 1
 * 2
 * 3
 * What are you linking above? Are you trying to turn this into [[WN:OR]?
 * As far as what I couldn't find, it was about all the history about The Cranberries. The AP source has some of it, but nothing like the details in this. I halted the review about half-way because as a reviewer, I am not supposed to rewrite the article. What is the source for "one of the richest women"? IDK. I can't give you a list of every problem. Yes, it may be easier for you, but I don't know all the problems. I stopped once there were a few unverifiable things. Sorry, but that's all I can tell you. --SVTCobra 17:49, 17 January 2018 (UTC)::
 * (Ouch, paywalled source. Hate when that happens.)  --Pi zero (talk) 18:11, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Oh, and while your at it. Explain to me how iTunes and cranberries.com are sources, because I saw you revert the removal of them, saying "there is a reason those sources were used" even though they have no relevant content (that I can see). --SVTCobra 17:59, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I explained in the summary, it speaks about albums, songs, info about the band, member, personal life etc. And, AP says "For a time, O'Riordan was one of Ireland's richest women, but she struggled with both physical and mental health problems." If you don't think you can review the article, you should rather not review it; you do not know my way of writing, so no doubt you would face the issues. And not every written note is an OR, but just a path to understand how the sources were used. •–• 22:21, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Just did a small src-check, and I don't think anything is missing. •–• 22:30, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It disturbs me to think that, because I've done such a large fraction of the review for so long, a reporter might have gotten used to counting on me knowing how they write. :-S --Pi zero (talk) 22:40, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yep, I know how it feels from SVTCobra's perspective when Darkforg24 said something similar, but I am not saying I count on you to know how I write an article. Remember I asked you how you approached to write an article, and told you how I wrote an article. Also, the experience, and telling you on/off wiki where the info came from, you would know when/where/how to look for the info [also true with those notorious webistes which makes use of cookies/JS and yet sometimes we need to change the language] But I think I have explained the details of trickiness via comments. •–•  22:46, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

iTunes as a source
iTunes is neither reliable nor objective as a source of music history. iTunes only purpose is to sell music. Listing iTunes in the sources is tantamount to advertising, which is especially egregious at this moment because grieving fans may want to listen to The Cranberries or O'Riordan's solo music. I'd rather use Wikipedia as a source. --SVTCobra 02:19, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * If there's something there that can be reasonably relied on — as opposed to the various things they can't be relied on for ‐ and the site was drawn upon for that, then it should be listed; otherwise, not. I expect to find out as I get into this review.  --Pi zero (talk) 13:17, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Cranberries.com as a source
Relying on self-published anything for anything other than a quotable statement is against policy. It's like using Trump's twitter feed as a source for what is going on the world. Stop it please. --SVTCobra 02:22, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Surely, using Trump's twitter feed as a source for what is going on in the world is in a class all by itself. :p --Pi zero (talk) 17:31, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, it's like using Monsanto's website in an article about whether GMOs are harmful or not. --SVTCobra 17:51, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Hm. Well, in all seriousness, as far as I could tell it was being used to corroborate the list of what albums the band had produced, which is more like using Monsanto's website for information about what products they offer.  --Pi zero (talk) 17:56, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Amazon.com started as online book store and it still sells it, but saying “Amazon.com is a website to purchase books” is wrong. It is one of the things they sell, it is not the entire catalogue. And the best one do describe what all they sell is the website itself. (It is a different issue why would anyone want to list all the things they sell, since it is broad and huge list, however, in this article, mentioning number of albums, not the entire list was needed.) And there was need for Apple Music because they backed the fact-checking like band members, song years, singles released band member's role (which were all in agreement with other sources) but more importantly, mentioned one of the album (2002?) was a compilation album, and don’t count it. Besides, there has various newsworthy announcements via tweets, instagram, Facebook post, official blogs, etc. And all of them are valid sources. The question of advertising for Apple Music — well, YouTube video's are accepted as sources, what if the reader goes and watched the video, benefitting YouTube (and sometimes, the uploader). I remember the Zomato article and had used official blog for data breach announcement: what if someone goes and joins Zomato, now that they had fixed (in a real good way to fix that thing). For football articles, what if someone goes to FIFA/UEFA/club's website and buys future tickets? For articles with (now) paywalled sources, what if someone clicks to read and ends up paying to see the content (add The Guardian's donation demand to that, as well) — where would one draw the line? (Using AllMusic [something I have never heard of] as the source [though initially said “I would rather use Wikipedia” is ones personal choice. The information I had extracted from Apple Music was how I wanted, and all of my preferred sources, those notes which I make, helps, to benefit the reviewer who passed the article as they had explained in their essay. 223.237.235.154 (talk) 18:36, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * TL;DR except where you say it was "how I wanted, and all of my preferred sources". That's all well and good, but this is a collaborative website. This is not the first time that you (assuming for a moment that 223.237.235.154=Acagastya) have asserted that your choices and preferences come above all else, including policy. You do not have ownership over the article. Cheers, --SVTCobra 19:42, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * if you wanted to use AllMusic, you would have added it and “collaborated”. But as I had mentioned I was taking the bullet, I used some sources and one can not leave a used source from the sources section. I favour using certain news orgs over another, Al Jazeera and Reuters over others — that does not mean anyone can say I should rather use some other sources. Don’t forget the collaboration offers anyone to write (with their preference what to write and which source to use) 223.237.251.96 (talk) 19:55, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Review of revision 4376858 [Passed]

 * Surely, the same information could have been gleaned from sites that don't have the same commercial interest in sales and thus a conflict of interest. Might I suggest the well-respect music database and review site ? They have a complete discography as well as tabs for biographical information. Cheers, --SVTCobra 18:04, 18 January 2018 (UTC)--SVTCobra 18:04, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * /me notes that website has listed a live album, skipped compilation album, but I was interested in studio albums only. Besides, who can come up with the best compiled list of albums they have released other than the band? /me remembers Premier League's website stayed Zlatan won the Champions League with Inter, though he had not. That error was not reflected in the Wikinews article. There is always a chance of errors. The best anyone can describe what XYZ company/club/person claims to offer/have won/what type of “stable genius” they are, is the company/club/personitself. 223.237.235.154 (talk) 18:48, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

 * You mentioning a time when an official site got something wrong argues against your case. AllMusic did not skip compilation albums, there's a filter for compilation albums on which The Cranberries appear. There are all kinds of reasons, a band could be incentivized to have an inaccurate discography on their official website. --SVTCobra 19:38, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
 * no, it doesn’t. Premier League is not a club. Manchester United and Inter got it right. The clubs Zlatan has played for. Middle agent in that case, PL, that got it incorrect. 223.237.251.96 (talk) 19:51, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

 * Eh, it sounds like it's the official site for the league in which he plays. Is it not? It doesn't sound like an independent reliable source. --SVTCobra 00:02, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * ”doesn’t sound like an independent reliable source” — nice joke. PL dependent on ManUtd, that is the last thing anyone would want to know. Pi zero is the strictest reviewer I have seen and nobody exercises caution which is comparable with theirs. They would have never given the article a green light if what you said was true. 223.237.210.155 (talk) 02:53, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Did you even read the review notes? --SVTCobra 03:28, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * <pi zero drops in> Just to be clear: Infallibility is a thing, and me not even raised Catholic.  --Pi zero (talk) 03:40, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

SVTCobra, without cross examining the article you can not comment on what info came from where — if you expect straightforward answers in the sources, it would be an epic fail. One needs to deduct things. In any case, speaking of the PL source for Zlatan’s article, there was no issue if not being independent reliable source. 223.237.204.105 (talk) 03:52, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Let's not talk about the Zlatan article anymore, because I don't know the details, and in the end it's neither here nor there. --SVTCobra 04:10, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you mean by "neither here nor there" when you decided to disregard PL's website as independent or reliable without knowing about the article [or like you complained for this article, without seeing what exactly came from which source] 118.151.209.30 (talk) 08:40, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * "neither here nor there" means it is not directly relevant to this article, so debating it will not solve the issues here. --SVTCobra 09:55, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * That is the thing -- it is relevant, but you don't seem to get it. 118.151.209.30 (talk) 10:59, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * No it is not. Even 223.237.251.96 said "no, it doesn’t. Premier League is not a club." --SVTCobra 11:02, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * “no it doesn’t” was for that case does not go against this case. PL is not a club, and it is the League, the third party source (primary being only ManUtd since Zlatan’s contract with PSG was expired) Evidentally, third parties can get achievements, records, and stats incorrect, and in that case the point source is the ideal one. I also remember a Canadian website providing incorrect info for ssmallest star’s discovery, due to a small misunderstanding. If personal website can not be considered for what albums they have released, a study can not be considered reliable for what they have found. 223.237.212.185 (talk) 12:27, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * There is no need to frame this discussion in terms of another article and another source. Please speak to this case. Any source is likely to have made a mistake at one time or another. My contention is that cranberries.com should not be accepted as a source because, essentially it is self-published and has an inherent bias. iTunes is a seller of music and has commercial interest in sales. Listing iTunes is roughly equivalent to advertising for them. --SVTCobra 13:27, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * <pi zero dropping in again> We do use biased sources. Russia Today, for instance.  (Heck, BBC is biased sometimes too.)  We use them thoughtfully, taking the bias into account in what we believe, of course.  But listing them in the sources isn't endorsement.  In the case of iTunes, iirc there was no other source that mentioned Niall Quinn; but (besides doing a surreptitious sanity check), I did consider both what economic motive iTunes could have for claiming that Quinn had been the Cranberries' singer before O'Riordan, and how likely they would be to make the mistake of saying it was so if it weren't.  I'm not saying iTunes is the best source one might choose; just noting that it's not altogether impossible to work with, and its use isn't an endorsement (though I can't deny its use here likely benefits them).  --Pi zero (talk) 13:42, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I googled Niall Quinn and Cranberries and this was the first result: The Cranberries: A sweet and lingering fruit of the 90s, published January 16 by Sky News. --SVTCobra 14:01, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Self published work would still not fake the number of albums they have released, to the best of their knowledge. Besides, if listing iTunes is promoting them, listing YouTube videos is also a promotion, and so is adding any sort of research study (what was that paywalled study report Darkfrog24 used?) SVTCobra, you didn’t know how much information came from those two websites, you have been complaining about (best not to speak about something you don’t know) but just to let you know, I am the author, and I get to choose what sources I want to write about. I don’t just randomly find things out of air to know. I read the stories, and I try to find connections. Any information on ec-lead singer was not the focal point and I choose those sources which helps verification easily, and also overlaps, so that the information can be cross-checked. Maybe, next time, instead of replacing only some sources, you should try do do for the paywall, and share the bullet wound, if you want your preference of sources to be listed. 223.237.208.230 (talk) 14:29, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * You can't imagine why a band would be dishonest on their website? And what product is YouTube selling? What product is a research study selling? They are not at all comparable. --SVTCobra 14:42, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Regarding reasons for inaccuracy, recall (from ) the Black family tree, which had had certain names blasted off of it. --Pi zero (talk) 14:45, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Pi zero. I watched about the first 30 minutes of the first Harry Potter movie. Did not see any of the others and did not read the books. But a band might want to hide an album which they are not proud of, or one where they had a bad record deal and aren't making any money off the sales. A band might also list an album they recorded, but were unable to get released. iTunes is also only likely to list songs and albums for which they have secured the right to sell. I don't know if it is the case anymore, but I think were notably absent from the iTunes catalog for years. --SVTCobra 15:05, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * that’s the thing you got wrong. See I did not use the “albums” pages. The source mentions the 2002 album was a compilation album. By the way, I have had looked for the discography, and the hit was “seven studio albums” from other sources. Which was with agreement with the official website, and hence, I went for the primary point of info. And per the wordings, if there was a secret album, that is taken care of: because if it was a secret, it would not be released, and it says released XYZ more albums. 223.237.212.17 (talk) 15:14, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * (Heh.) The reference to the Black family tree was because they removed relatives from the tree whose politics they disagreed with, even disowning their own son when he rejected their ideology. (Btw, my advice re the Harry Potter stories is, if you choose to pursue thm further, read the books, don't bother with the movies.) --Pi zero (talk) 15:14, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * 223.237.212.17, so you are saying you confirmed with other sources, yet chose to list the one with the greatest conflict of interest? You call it the "primary source", but do you really think the other sources got their information from cranberries.com? --SVTCobra 15:32, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It is not my job to investigate where they got the info from, however, whenever a club signs a player, where do you think MSM gets the information from? (I had confirmed after you failed the article stating things could not be verified. I can’t delist a source I have used; you know the rules) 223.237.214.246 (talk) 15:41, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * You know, your arguments make it clear you never cared to read all the sources, or find which information came from where, not even those photos, which would have guided you, and without actually knowing what happened, it is pointless to tell you anything about it because you are not going to listen. You don’t know how minimal info it offered, almost the same string length of the signatures. 223.237.196.165 (talk) 15:46, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * You did not make your notes available until after my review. And even now, I do not see them mention iTunes or cranberries.com. I see, The Independent, BBC, Washington Post, and Twitter. --SVTCobra 16:01, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I made it available because you said you couldn’t verify lot of info, and that would be the guide map. Those notes were made in the class, and info from iTunes/official website was added after I came home, after the various revisions that existed in preview. I generally avoid documenting two liner info from source in my journal, and thus, I paused when I saw what Independent had to offer. 223.237.255.204 (talk) 17:12, 19 January 2018 (UTC)


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Contributing
Hi. We do not allow advertising on this site. There's a compact overview of what we do here at Pillars of writing; and if you're interested to contribute, a tutorial on writing a first article at Writing an article. --Pi zero (talk) 16:38, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

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Talk:United States: One person dead after boat to offshore casino burns off Florida coast

Review of revision 4376644 [Passed]

 * Thanks! I've been having difficulty knowing when to attribute, and have been erring on the side of pedestrianly doing it for everything. BTW the "with" regarding the NBC source was from this line: "Contributors Andrew Kozak and Michelle Acevedo" below the other author info. Yngvadottir (talk) 19:18, 17 January 2018 (UTC)


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text: Comments:Toronto to have socialized city-wide wi-fi access


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text: Comments:Irish rock band The Cranberries' lead singer Dolores O'Riordan dies at 46


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mastuh 8845
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Ukraine passes bill on war-torn eastern regions

January 20, 2018

On Thursday, the Ukrainian passed a new bill called the "Donbass reintegration law". It describes the regions — — of  and  as being "temporarily occupied" by Russia and declares Russia to be the "aggressor".

The bill calls for a return of the regions to Ukrainian control by military force if necessary. There is no mention of the February 2015 which was signed by the Ukrainian government and rebel groups, and brokered by France and Germany.

Ukrainian President stated on,  Former Prime Minister  said this forms a legal basis for a  peacekeeping force to "remove the Russian army from Ukrainian territory". Legislator commented on why the Minsk agreement was not mentioned in the bill: "We can't embed diplomatic and political agreements that are prone to change into the Ukrainian legislation".

Russia's foreign ministry quickly denounced the law and claimed it was proof Ukraine is preparing for a new war. Furthermore, the law "risked a dangerous escalation in Ukraine with unpredictable consequences for world peace and security", the official statement said.

"Kiev has gone from sabotaging the Minsk agreements to burying them," said, chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee for the in Russia. , leader of one of the rebel groups in eastern Ukraine, also expressed sharp criticism. Zakharchenko said it was a violation of the Minsk agreement and could lead to an escalation of the armed conflict.

Fighting in eastern Ukraine began shortly after Russia annexed in 2014 and has by reports claimed over 10,000 lives. About 1.7 million people,  reports, have been displaced from their homes due to the fighting.


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Thread:Comments:Poland: Thousands of far-right nationalists gather in Warsaw to march for white supremacy, anti-liberalism, and anti-Islam on Polish independence day/Fake news

This is the fake news, and liberal propaganda. Far-right nationalist is marginal groups in Poland. Most of them are normal people who want to commemorate Indepedence Day. Please pay attention to the crediblity of the sources. Believe finally, that in Poland there is no dictatorship or anything like that. I am a normal Pole, and I do not see that there are fascists, nationalists or Nazis in my country.


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User talk:TyrellParr310

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Thread:Comments:Poland: Thousands of far-right nationalists gather in Warsaw to march for white supremacy, anti-liberalism, and anti-Islam on Polish independence day/Fake news/reply

We do pay attention to credibility of sources, in fact we put massive emphasis on it; if you think those aren't credible, likely you're trapped in one or another sort of information bubble.


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Thread:Comments:Poland: Thousands of far-right nationalists gather in Warsaw to march for white supremacy, anti-liberalism, and anti-Islam on Polish independence day/Fake news/reply (2)

Nobody is saying that they aren't a marginal group. The fact is, the march did happen. Otherwise, how do you explain why your own president condemned the march? If it was fake news, he surely would have condemned the press instead. It's pretty much the same as the events in Charlottesville, Virgina. A marginal group succeeded in getting a lot of attention by holding an event.


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User talk:RockyBarnhill90

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Talk:Ukraine passes bill on war-torn eastern regions

Local copy of the map
Though the file was not updated since 2014, there should be a local copy of it -- the caption should suggest it is more than three years old, and also, is the map accurate? [make sure to check it] 118.151.209.30 (talk) 08:51, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

 * Map replaced. --SVTCobra 09:50, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * However, it should be a local copy. 118.151.209.30 (talk) 10:55, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

 * Why? --SVTCobra 11:00, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Because it can change over time would you mind briefing about map of the African Union? File:Map of the African Union.svg 118.151.209.30 (talk) 11:02, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

 * The first map could, but this map shows lines of the Minsk II deal, which is a set point in time and the lines will never change. --SVTCobra 11:07, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Few months ago, I noticed Fae had filed a case on ANB on Commons because two editors were continuously reverting file histories over political boundaries and territories. Such things can happen when a map is not locally maintained, and goes against archive policy as well as the accuracy of the image. 223.237.212.185 (talk) 12:30, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't know who Fae is and you give me no frame of reference. This map is one that was agreed to by all sides of the conflict. It is unreasonable to suspect that it will become the subject of an edit-war on Commons any more than suspecting the photograph will become the subject of an edit war. If you feel it is vital to the integrity of Wikinews to upload it locally, go ahead, but I think it is a waste of time. --SVTCobra 14:54, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And please stop spitting out things like it is against Archive conventions when such issues are not mentioned at all. Again and again, you state things are against policy, as if you know policy. All you are doing is demonstrating that you do not know policy. --SVTCobra 14:58, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * <pi zero drops in > Fwiw, Fae is a very active Commoner, who has been generally friendly toward Wikinews (for a while, ran a very useful bot that tracked proposals to delete images that are used on any Wikinews). --Pi zero (talk) 15:00, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * You mean Fæ? --SVTCobra 15:09, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Well, I understand the archive policy—file changes are not acceptable. It is a snapshot in time. Even the logo changes are not acceptable. Only if we had the African Union article published, you would have seen the problem. Pizero; I think you should explain how that map changed; the file version history would suggest that, too. 223.237.212.17 (talk) 15:17, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The African Union is a living thing. Like NATO or EU, countries can join or leave. Sometimes countries change, like when Sudan split into two. This, however, is a static map of what all parties agreed to in the agreement. Even if Russia invaded all of Ukraine and annexed it, it would not change this map. --SVTCobra 15:27, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I am sure the country map which Fae mentioned was “agreed upon” but still that did not stop those people from fighting over the territory. A local copy of a map with confirmed lincese should be kept locally to prevent it from those issues. 223.237.241.187 (talk) 15:37, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I do not know what issue you are talking about with regards to Fæ; is it African Union? But what exactly prevents a similar fight from breaking out over here? (Aside from the statistical probability due to a smaller user base). --SVTCobra 16:20, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Review of revision 4377377 [Passed]
The first Minsk agreement was a total failure, so now most people refer to Minsk II as just Minsk, even though it is the second one. If we do the same, I don't mind, as long as we keep the links pointing to Minsk II. --SVTCobra 17:35, 20 January 2018 (UTC)


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User talk:Jonna1283675

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The parameters are:
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User talk:LeilaniCharette

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User talk:Braxtonryn

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 09:33, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

The Truth about the Diversity Visa Lottery.
I understand that you are eager to have your first article published, but it is simply not ready. Please concentrate on an event that occurred in the last 2-3 days. Read the style guide. In lieu of that, look at some of our other published articles and get a sense of the style and structure. Also, at a glance, I think your article might run afoul of our WN:NPOV policy. Cheers and happy editing, --SVTCobra 13:36, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I was trying to guide you to writing a publishable article, but if you insist on putting it up for what is sure to be a failing review, so be it. --SVTCobra 16:15, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry. I did take your advice and I read the Wikinews:Style guide and Wikinews:Neutral point of view and have made a LOT of changes. I'm new,but I'm very passionate about this, so any advice is appreciated! Thanks!

Hi! Passion for journalism is good. As a new arrival at Wikinews, you need to learn the basics here so you can apply your energy efficiently to producing articles that pass review smoothly. (Once you get the hang of it, hopefully, you'll find it will be quite straightforward to write articles that will have no major problems during review.) I've tried to explain a bit more about this article in my latest review comments. I recommend reading WN:PILLARS, then WN:WRITE. --Pi zero (talk) 17:08, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks a lot! It's been less than a day and I'm already learning SOO much about writing! I'm gonna re-write/structure the aricle and submit it for re-review! Thanks a lot!
 * I've written another set of review comments. --Pi zero (talk) 21:37, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Tips: avoid sections and a table-of-content. Avoid lists in favor of brief layman's sentences. Do focus on what has been done or said in the last day or so. Avoid using Op-Ed pieces as sources. Better to use the State Department. As for your map, it doesn't explain anything about the color-coding. Obviously, that should be fixed. --SVTCobra 22:58, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, and the title. I don't know if Wikinews is in a position to declare itself the arbiter of 'truth' but we certainly do not have a period at the end of our headlines and we down-style (no caps except for first letter and proper names). --SVTCobra 23:06, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

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User talk:JefferySnook

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User talk:Ericson JN I

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Zimbabwean politician Bennett and four others die in New Mexico helicopter crash

January 19, 2018

, a key Zimbabwean opposition leader, died on Wednesday evening in a helicopter crash that also killed four other people in the northeastern part of New Mexico, United States. Bennett was 60 years old. His death was confirmed Thursday by some of his friends and family members.

The helicopter, a, went down after darkness had fallen. The fatal accident happened in a remote and mountainous area about fifteen (about 24 ) east of the small town of. The has confirmed, four others were killed in the accident: Bennett's wife Heather, pilot Jamie Coleman Dodd, co-pilot Paul Cobb, as well as the wealthy businessman Charles Burnett III. According to friends, Bennett and his wife were on their way to the Emery Gap Ranch, a ranch in New Mexico which Burnett purchased last year, in order to spend their holiday over there. In total, six people were aboard. Only the co-pilot's daughter managed to escape in time from the burning helicopter.

Bennett was a prominent member of the (MDC-T) party. He was very critical of former President 's reign. Bennett fled Zimbabwe for some time but returned to it in 2009, after which he was arrested on the accusation of illegal weapon possession. He was eventually acquitted from this.

Several Zimbabwean opposition leaders have expressed their grief about Bennett's death. Obert Gutu, a spokesman for MDC-T, spoke of a "huge and tragic loss". Former Minister of Finance calls it "a blow to our struggle". According to, both Bennett and his wife belonged to "Zimbabwe’s greatest patriots". On Friday, Zimbabwean lawyer described Bennett as "part of a small group of white Zimbabweans who joined the democratic movement and demonstrated that whites do still have a place in Zimbabwe".


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User talk:Patricio Campos

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User:Satyapira Padhan

Satyapira Padhan is a Guinness World Records Title Holder for Most Full Contact Punch Strikes In One Minute(one hand).

Born on 26th December 1994 at Deypur Village of Kalahandi District in Odisha State. He is the first person of Kalahandi District to enlisted name in Guinness World Records.

Reference Link: http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/world-records/94515-most-full-contact-punch-strikes-in-one-minute-one-hand

title: User:Satyapira Padhan


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User talk:Satyapira Padhan

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 11:33, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

Please help me by giving some idea to make this page successful.
I am new, need your help, please help me to make my personal page on Wikipedia.

I will be very much grateful. Satyapira Padhan (talk) 11:37, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

 * Hi! I saw the page you started to create; I've moved it here since it seems to be meant as a user page.

 * This is Wikinews, which is separate from Wikipedia although both projects are part of the wikimedia sisterhood.
 * It looks as if the admins at Wikipedia deleted your user page at Wikipedia as "unambiguous advertising". (link).  I can't tell what your page was there, since I'm not an admin on Wikipedia.
 * Your user page here is now this.
 * If you are interested in contributing to Wikinews, there is a compact overview of what we do here at Pillars of writing, and then, there's a tutorial on how to write a first article here at Writing an article.
 * --Pi zero (talk) 14:05, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Satyapira Padhan


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Talk:Zimbabwean politician Bennett and four others die in New Mexico helicopter crash

Washington Post
Is Washington Post only paywalled for US users? --SVTCobra 16:57, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I live outside the US, but it is often paywalled for me too. However, in this case, I was able to read the whole article. For the rest, I can't tell why. De Wikischim (talk) 17:12, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Clear your cache. Or copy the title, (it is AP syndicated) so search title + “apnews” on a search engine and you can compare if they are exactly same or not on dupdet and replace it — as far as I know, pizero said it was okay to replace syndicate articles if paywalled. 223.237.255.204 (talk) 17:14, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * this? 223.237.197.253 (talk) 17:24, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I trust you spot checked they are the same. --SVTCobra 19:41, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Movement for Democratic Change
This leads to a disambiguation page. Can you confirm it is meant to be the same as MDC-T? --SVTCobra 20:15, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The link in the article leads immediately to Movement for Democratic Change – Tsvangirai. I have only made the abbreviation itself visible so it's a little easier to read. But the abbreviation itself is not linked to a disambiguation page on WP. --De Wikischim (talk) 20:22, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I am talking about the second link. --SVTCobra 20:28, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I have determined that Obert Gutu is also of the Tsvangirai branch. But interestingly, this turned up in today's news about him. Hmm, strange. --SVTCobra 20:45, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh OK - I only see what you mean now. Well, see this web site. I think the appropriate link to WP is easy to find now. I'll try to fix it. De Wikischim (talk) 20:58, 19 January 2018 (UTC) I think it's just the same link as earlier in the text. De Wikischim (talk) 20:59, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, thanks. I would, however, prefer if you stop editing the article while it is under review. You are creating edit conflicts for me. If you need to comment on something I am doing, please do it here on the talk page. --SVTCobra 21:05, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * OK, sorry - indeed, I often forget it since this way of "dividing" the edits on an article is so typical for this Wikinews version only. De Wikischim (talk) 21:18, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Review of revision 4377144 [Passed]

 * Well, I guess it can still be expanded. By the way, most of the info in the given sources is just background information about Bennett (especially his political career) which, as such, has no direct connection with this news item itself. De Wikischim (talk) 21:53, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Burnett III is actually quite interesting, too. A Guinness world record holder. At this point, I wouldn't bother. But it's up to you. We have about a 24 hour window before it is inappropriate. --SVTCobra 22:00, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The problem is, Wikipedia does not seem to know him because all persons on Charles Burnett seem to be someone else. If someone still manages to write an article about him within the next 24 hours... Might it be the one named on Burnett baronets? De Wikischim (talk) 22:12, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * IDK about the baronets, but he has no WP page, but there's this: Inspiration (car). Cheers. --SVTCobra 22:22, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

Sister links
Interestingly, "The Wiki Ghost" had added a link back to Wikinews before I could even get to Roy Bennett (politician). I did add it to the 2018 Sapphire Aviation Bell UH-1H Iroquois crash which I then, politely, linked back to WP. --SVTCobra 22:17, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Sounds like the way things should be, between sisters. :-) --Pi zero (talk) 22:23, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * @SVTCobra: I didn't know yet, when I added the link with my other account (which is "The Wiki ghost", indeed, a translation of my Dutch user name), that latter article existed already on WP (where it actually does not belong, in my opinion). Well, I'd prefer to keep linking to the biographic article because that is encylopaedic. The one about the crash is imho misuse of Wikipedia as an alternative news site. De Wikischim (talk) 22:28, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah, it was you. That makes sense. Well, I do believe the page for the crash will stay since an NTSC investigation has been opened. And who knows, maybe Mugabe blew up the helicopter as an assassination. (wearing my tin foil hat) --SVTCobra 22:35, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, we'll see - anyway it would be an interesting sequel to this news item. De Wikischim (talk) 22:36, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Well, granted, the fact that Wikipedia even has an article about the event does not represent an ideal arrangement; not entirely unlike Wikipedia having an article called "List of quotes about <subject>", which would not be greatly appreciated by Wikiquote. But the mutual sister-linking is pleasant.  --Pi zero (talk) 23:23, 19 January 2018 (UTC)

By whom; and info in lede
'being especially known as the "sharpest thorn" in Mugabe's side' -- known by whom? Should not this be attributed? Besides, the healine says five were killed. At least something like "Four others were also killed in the accident". 223.237.252.103 (talk) 23:51, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Are you blind? " four others were killed in the accident: Bennett's wife Heather, pilot Jamie Coleman Dodd, co-pilot Paul Cobb, as well as the wealthy businessman Charles Burnett III. " --SVTCobra 23:56, 19 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Are you blind? See the subheading: info in the lede -- if something was important enough to be in the headline, it must be mentioned in the lede [actually the reverse helps avoiding useless info in the headline; but it works both ways] Explain details like the relation; survivours, etc. in the lower part. 223.237.252.103 (talk) 00:01, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Point taken; added the other four. If you log in you can sight it. However, I am not sure what you mean by relation in "the lower part". --SVTCobra 00:33, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I can't attribute the "sharpest" thing further ... two sources mention it, but they don't credit anyone else. What would you do? --SVTCobra 00:35, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Lower part of the inverted pyramid/article. I would not mention "sharpest thorn" -- could be a term people would have used in Zimbabwe in his political life or reference to the song, but if it can't be attributed, it should not be mentioned. BTW, can sight it. 223.237.252.103 (talk) 00:42, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * "Sharpest thorn" is absolutely a term used in Zimbabwe and his political life. If you feel necessary, we can attribute the two sources and say they both agree that he was called that. It seems a little wacky, but whatever. --SVTCobra 01:13, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Could be something local media called him. Could be what his opposition called him. Could be what he described himself. Could be started with potential bias by the locals... 223.237.252.103 (talk) 01:20, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Eh, there are no Zimbabwean sources in this. What is your point, exactly? --SVTCobra 01:24, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I removed it, even if it's in the title of one of the sources. It is really irrelevant, so I don't want to fight about it. --SVTCobra 01:31, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Zimbabwean media would have called him sharpest thorn once [or probably many times], and these sources were quoting what "titles" he received in his political life. In any case, what if for an article, sources say "XYZ is the worst ABC of all time" that too, in quotations -- would that be acceptable [or anything for that matter, it clearly violates NPOV because it goes unattributed, even if it is quoted]. 223.237.252.103 (talk) 01:38, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * What are you on about???? I removed it from the article, FFS. --SVTCobra 01:40, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I am explaining why we should avoid such things in general, using some hypothetical scenarios. Maybe you should start looking at things from a new angle before saying "FFS". 223.237.252.103 (talk) 01:45, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * You are not explaining anything. Avoid what? There are two sources that say he was a leader in the party. Yet, you don't demand that it be attributed. Maybe it was just a local paper in Zimbabwe that once said it and the rest of the media copied it. Why is that different? The only reason I bent to your demand is because it was not important. Did you read your talk page, btw? --SVTCobra 01:57, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Unlike the leader, that “thorn” comment was opinion, not a fact. He wasn’t a thorn after all. Those sources say he was the leader, they don’t quote it, saying “he was considered as leader of XYZ”. 223.237.252.103 (talk) 02:05, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * At this point, I'll just let you debate with yourself. Because, if you think about it, being opposed to Mugabe at that time was a thorn, but nobody 'legitimate' called him that. And was a leader, but was he 'the' leader? Wow! Mind-fuck! Maybe he jumped from that helicopter before it crashed. Why not? It saves a costly divorce from that bitch wife. --SVTCobra 02:14, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * at this point, I am enjoying How unthoughtful you can be…it should be “according to reports he was found dead in helicopter”. I don’t need to tell an experienced reviewer how to review articles. remember the discussion about the articles we had a few months back on #wikinews-en? (Darn it. Reminds me of Simba) 223.237.252.103 (talk) 02:24, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Let's start every sentence in every article "according to ..." Let's see where that gets us. --SVTCobra 02:28, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Could you both please restrain yourselves a bit, and figure that you probably both have some useful insight into these issues? If you get under each other's skins to the point where you tend to be repelled by each other's insights, nobody wins (not either of you and not Wikinews either).  --Pi zero (talk) 02:39, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Death is confirmed by someone or the other if you haven’t seen it in person. (Or the medical report) that is the way it is supposed to work. Wikinews doesn’t claim he died. The report did. 223.237.253.79 (talk) 02:43, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Not really, Pi zero. At this point "the user" is never logged in; uses rotating IP addresses; does nothing but harass things I contribute to Wikinews. "The user" expects me to have conversations as if I can confidently know the IP address is the same person. And when it is inconvenient, somehow you, Pi zero, chastise me, saying "you don't know it is the same person". It is abhorrent. Why should I treat an IP the same as a reviewer and once accredited reporter. Just look at the last entry here. --SVTCobra 02:50, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree, the shifting IPs make things difficult. I've honestly tried not to take sides; I keep trying to find a way to discourage the two of you from going at each other, but my efforts have clearly failed consistently, and if they've come across badly to you, I apologize.  --Pi zero (talk) 03:46, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Yes, but please consider the statement by 223.237.253.79. Death is confirmed "in person" or by the "medical report". Holy hell! We now need the coroners report for. We better send somebody to London or wherever they've taken her body. Well, if we can't do that, let's wait for the coroners report. Well, maybe that's rash, let's just change our article to "According to iTunes, Dolores O'Riordan is dead". The arguments are so inconsistent it borders on schizophrenia. Look at the image issue. First nobody can even add a caption, next, no license at all is needed. I am at my wits' end. --SVTCobra 04:44, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Since I don't understand the no-license thing either, I couldn't offer any explanation of that. (I do note that O'Riordan's death was confirmed by her publicist, so says our article; but, I feel constrained in pointing out that acagastya isn't completely insane (only partly insane, like the rest of us), since it seems I need to try harder to visibly not take sides.)  --Pi zero (talk) 05:04, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * "According to iTunes, O'Riordan is dead" Holy shit -- you did not even care to read the article, or the sources. That website says nothing about her death. That article clearly states her publicist confirmed the death. Why do you have a problem with attributing -- did you forget the basic journalism elements? (Reminds me of the 2016 Doctor Strange movie where a patient was declared dead by a doctor, and ten minutes later, Stephen Strange removed the bullet from the head and saved the life) Tell me, why do you want a caption for the photo? It was not clicked by you, after all. Description and caption are different, [cross-check with image repository Commons, they use description] For example, this photo can have anything as caption, "my cat", white cat", or even "Ladies do not start a fight, but they can end it" -- a reference to The Aristocats. But the description would be a "white cat with a pink bow". And, you can see the FUR beneath the photos. Wit's end -- just like when you said CC BY-SA can be used in CC BY, but not vice-versa. •–• 00:22, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I can ask you the same. Did you read this article before making your claims. If you read it, you will see that the information of the deaths came from the police. Bennett's death is additionally confirmed by his family. P.S. iTunes does state that O'Riordan died on January 15, and I am quite certain that it did on the 17th. --SVTCobra 02:56, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Of course you can ask, and the answer is: yes, I read the article before commenting. I did not say the "article is not saying who reported the death" I just said XYZ died in a helicopter crash incident per the reports. Besides, you were the one who started the BS about jumping from helicopter. And for iTunes, they have updated the biography. Was not there when the article was under review. •–•  03:19, 24 January 2018 (UTC)


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Thread:Comments:Poland: Thousands of far-right nationalists gather in Warsaw to march for white supremacy, anti-liberalism, and anti-Islam on Polish independence day/Fake news/reply (3)

My main concern was that this march is a tradition, and it has been organized since pre-war times. It is not intended to demonstrate support for fascists. Simple people participate in it.


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Thread:Comments:Poland: Thousands of far-right nationalists gather in Warsaw to march for white supremacy, anti-liberalism, and anti-Islam on Polish independence day/Fake news/reply (4)

That point seems a bit less clear in the article than it ought to be. I hope to re-examine the matter in depth from that perspective (perhaps within the next day or so?)...


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User talk:Suganthan jayaraman

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Chile: Pope Francis stirs outrage with 'slander' comment

January 20, 2018

On Thursday, Roman Catholic Pope Francis, on a tour of South America, spoke to the press in Chile on his last day in the country. When asked by a local journalist about Juan Barros, who has been accused of covering up sexual abuse by another priest, the Pope responded: "The day they bring me proof against Bishop Barros, I'll speak. [...] There is not one shred of proof against him. It's all  [slander]. Is that clear?"

According to multiple news outlets, this did not sit well with many Chileans. The aforementioned Bishop Juan Barros was the protégé of priest who was found guilty in 2011 by the Vatican of dozens of abuses against minors since the 1980s. Barros, who rose above his mentor, is alleged to have protected Karadima for years.

Victims of Karadima decried the Pope's remark. "We feel absolutely betrayed by what Pope Francis said, and about his incoherence, because he asks for forgiveness on one side and then says victims are lying," said Juan Carlos Cruz in an interview on Friday. "We will not be bullied by anybody no matter how powerful they are." Cruz has alleged that Barros was present when Karadima groped and kissed him.

James Hamilton, who also says he was a victim, told a press conference: "What the Pope has done today is offensive and painful, and not only against us, but against everyone seeking to end the abuses".

Bishop Alejandro Goic spoke of Barros in a radio interview: "It left me with a bitter taste that a brother of mine occupied a leading role [in the abuse scandal] that was not good." Not all were against the Pope. Bishop Santiago Silva stated, "Without reserve, we support what Pope Francis said".

Earlier in Pope Francis's visit to Chile he met with victims of abuse by clergy. Francis also said: "I cannot help but express the pain and shame, shame that I feel over the irreparable harm caused to children by church ministers," while speaking in, the capital city of Chile. "Is it fair to ask for forgiveness?"


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User talk:223.237.252.103

if you are who you act like, check your talk page --SVTCobra 01:45, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Already done. If you would have noticed, all but two are photographs of someone's copyrighted material. FoP in India demands presence in public location, which it wasn’t, meaning the 3D models of Thor, Captain America and Hulk are copyrighted work of Marvel which are protected against FoP. The manga sketch was drawn by a fellow ComicCon attendee, and their sketch is their copyrighted work even if them just left their sketch there for anyone to modify—maybe not knowing what their rights are, but I know what their rights [were]. For tattoo of The Tick, it is again copyrighted work, I guess amazon.com holds the rights of the web series, and the tattoo art by the one who painted it, they cannot be released under any sort of free license. All of this was already discussed last year on or off wiki with the reviewer. 223.237.252.103 (talk) 02:00, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I would say that is a major problem. Wouldn't you? --SVTCobra 02:04, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * And what can I do with supposed off-wiki discussions? --SVTCobra 02:05, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Nope, not a big problem, since this usage “greatly” helps readers to know what happened st the event. You can not do anything with off-wiki discussion, but you could have figured it out yourself if you saw the photos. I just don’t want to repeat things over again. 223.237.252.103 (talk) 02:14, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

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Template:Infobox/lookup/Chile

Available fields are documented at infobox table.

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YouTube Demonetization
This article is not ready for review. Have you considered the possibility it is too old to be news?--SVTCobra 03:03, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

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text: Comments:Ukraine passes bill on war-torn eastern regions


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Talk:Chile: Pope Francis stirs outrage with 'slander' comment

Implement WN:IAR and change photo?
I know that, per WN:Archive conventions, content should not be changed after more than 24 hours passed. However, I think either File:Francisco en la PUC (25879476708) - headshot.jpg or File:Francisco en la PUC (25879476708) - cropped.jpg is more suitable image than the 2014 one used in the article. Can WN:IAR be invoked to allow image change in the article? --George Ho (talk) 23:05, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I am in favor of the change. What about you, ? ... Thanks, George Ho. I actually searched for such an image on Commons. Maybe it hadn't been categorized yet. Cheers, --SVTCobra 23:10, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Truthfully, I don't think it would be appropriate. If we are especially dissatisfied with the image choice, that implies that the change would be especially substantive.  --Pi zero (talk) 23:19, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I think it lends to our credibility as news to have current photos rather than ancient file photos. It doesn't change any of the text of the article. Imho, it is not a substantive change. Actually, I think it is far less of a change than changing an infobox on a 10-year-old article. (I didn't look it up, but I think the 24 hour window is not in policy, but in guidelines or buried deep in archiving guidelines.) Cheers, --SVTCobra 23:31, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * My memory is that the 24-hour figure was settled on by a rather hefty consensus of veteran Wikinewsies, making it quite solid. The archival status of image choice is extremely well-established.  --Pi zero (talk) 23:44, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
 * We aren't talking about the archive, though. Anyway, it would just be "cool" to have a photo from the actual trip to Chile. I am happy with the article either way. --SVTCobra 23:59, 22 January 2018 (UTC)


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January 2018
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