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User:Robertinventor/Email-Interview-with Vlada follow up

Hi Vlada, hope things have eased off for you since the publication in Nature, and I wonder if I can ask you a few more questions?

I plan to publish your interview soon. Still going through review at Wikinews. Our review process is rather thorough, and I will be doing my own blog and wiki entries once this is done.

Anway this review turned up a technical question I can't answer. For the main story, we solved it by just removing a number that we got confused by, but I am interested to know what the answer is.

So if you have time I wonder if you can resolve this for us, especially as I want to quote it in my longer article, also for my "Encyclopedia of Astrobiology" wiki, where I want to go into you research in some depth?

I also have a few more questions if you have time to answer them mainly on technical details. There are a fair number but for many the answers are probably simple. It's absolutely fine to give short answers. Or skip some of them.

As before, I would publish your responses, where it is appropriate, longer replies etc.

First the puzzling numbers:

I wondered if the difference was due to atmospheric presesure, but the discrepancy is in the wrong direction because in the Southern uplands with the pressure less than 6.7 mbar, you'd expect the oxygen levels to be less if anything for the map than for figure 2a. Well, I'd have thought so anyway. So, what are we missing here?
 * This is about your figures 3a and 2a. The paper itself mentions a lower limit of 2.5 * 10-5 moles per cubic meter. But in Figure 2a neither the calcium nor the magnesium perchlorates bar stops at 2.5 indeed it looks more like 1.  for the lower limit.

And a question about the numbers in the abstract, case of confirming that I understood what it said:

It also gives a lower limit of 2.5 * 10-6 moles per cubic meter. Is this for the Sodium perchlorates from figure 2?
 * In the abstract you talk about an upper limit of 2 moles per cubic meter. Is this for the magnesium perchlorates of figure 2a best estimate with supercooling?

I also wondered if the actual numbers numbers are available for public sharing?

 * Are the numbers corrsponding to Fig2 bars are available especially 2a? (Maybe they are in the supplementary information but I can't seem to find them)

Then there's a question about the warm water:

(hydrothermal vents, liquids from cave systems such as sulfur caves etc, ice fumaroles if they exist, rising vapour and warmth from the deep hydrosphere if it exists). '''Is that the sort of thing you had in mind. Or something more specific? Just wondered if you care to elaborate here'''
 * When you talked about warm water encountering the brines from below, I assumed you were talking about warmer water rising from subsurface geothermal hot spots and similar phenomena

I'm also interested in mixes of salts for my longer article:

(I get the impression from the literature including that paper, that the depression of the eutectic below the optimal salt Magnesium perchlorate, is likely to be small, a fraction of a degree, so it is probably an ignorable effect unless the other factors in your calculation were significant- but I would like to be able to say that, rather than just guess it, if that is the case).
 * Have you investigated the idea of a mix of salts such as Phoenix found, with sodium, potassium, magnesium and calcium for the anions and perchlorates, chlorides and sulfates for the cations all mixed together(table 3 of [1])? What I wondered is can such a mix can have a higher oxygen concentration than any of the salts separately, as the freezing out process takes them to an optimal eutectic mixture in solution? Or is the effect of such a mixture too minute to be of interest?

If that was typical of the polar regions it might suggest that magnesium perchlorate map would possibly even be the dominant scenario for Mars. Wondered what your thoughts are on that.
 * This is about the choice to map calcium perchlorate instead of magnesium perchlorate in the paper. I found a paper about an experiment that used a mix of salts simulating the Phoenix lander data. As they cooled it, then by -60 °C they ended up with magnesium perchlorate and just about everything else had precipitated out including the calciunm perchlorates[2].
 * Did you do the Magnesium perchlorates map in detail? With that difference between 0.2 and 2 miles maximum per cubic meter, it would be interesting to know, e.g. what the extent is of the region for sponges, is it larger? And - is there then a significant region that has 0.2 moles per cubic meter? Or indeed 0.1 moles per cubic meter enough for bottom dwelling crabs on Earth?

Then I have a couple of questions about fresh water.

 * Question about methodology, is pure water optimal?  In detail: from your figure S1 in the supplmentary information, and he following discussion, it seems that you started with the theoretical oxygen solubility in pure water, and the presence of salts reduced it by salting out factors. Have I understood the methodology correctly? So that the situation for pure water is optimal for oxygen solubility?

Mohmann, whose research particularly interests me, says that these are biologically relevant nanolayers of fresh water that form down to -90 C (183.15 K) that are used in Antarctic ice by microbes[4]. Also, researchers have suggested they may occur on Mars[5]. So, just wanted to check, first are those figures correct? Also, are they (on best estimate assumptions) potential oxygen concentrations for fresh water on Mars, based on your research, or would that need more work?
 * I have an additional question about Undercooled Liquid Interface water. Do you know if the same results apply for ULI thin films of water?
 * Potential oxygen concentrations for pure water: from your figure S1 and from figure 1 in the paper, it would seem that at those temperatures, they could reach about 2 * 10-4 moles per cubic meter, and fresh water at 0 C. a little under 2 * 10-5 moles per cubic meter.

 * Is the maximum for radiolysis going to be the same as for oxygen from the atmosphere? E.g. for fresh water at 0 C, 2 * 10-4 moles per cubic meter (or whatever the number is)

For instance, the deliquescing salts that Curiosity found beneath its wheels as it drove over the sand dunes, form overnight and dry up during the day. I mean - can this be ruled out already or is it something needing research?
 * I know you haven't done the dynamical research yet - but - Is it possible to have a preliminary rough idea of how long it would take for oxygen to get into the water? Are we talking about minutes, or hours, days, or weeks for oxygen to ge into the water?

The background here is that Gilbert Levin once suggested in an interview that as the frosts observed by the Viking lander evaporate, a ground hugging water vapour layer may form in the morning and so permit minute traces of water to be briefly stable as the morning frosts melt, and they reported that Chris McKay when asked about it thought the idea had some merit. For their idea, with Chris McKay's comments on it see Can Liquid Water Exist on Present-Day Mars? As far as I know it is still a possibility.
 * Similarly for pure water, could oxygen get into any fresh water that forms through ice melting briefly in the Hellas basin, or even melting of morning frosts?

Also a couple of general questions,

 * Have there been any more developments since I emailed you that we could mention? For instance progreses with exploring time dependent processes in detail?

 * Can you think of anything else you'd like to add?

If you have some time to reply it is greatly appreciated,

Cheers!

Robert


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Wikinews:Gatwicking

Occasionally, a mostly-sound article will go stale before it can be published, either due to limitations in review labour or due to required improvements taking up more time than the article will remain fresh for. It is possible to save some of these articles, making maximum use of the effort already put into them, by a process of refocusing them to be about a newer event on the same broader story. This process is sometimes referred to informally as 'Gatwicking' the article, a phrase that initiated on IRC during work to rescue an article about Gatwick Airport in this way.

That article was ultimately published as Police warn new drone owners to obey law after disruption at UK's Gatwick Airport; before the work to refocus it began, it was. (Note, the current title was selected subsequently to the linked-to old version. The new title still displays there because of how the software handles such things.) Although it was both expanded to include newer information and given a new focus, all of the existing work was usefully preserved to provide core background.

When and how to Gatwick
Gatwicking an article can be very valuable in cases where an article is, largely, ready to go but has missed its window of opportunity. It results in a much stronger article due to being able to draw on existing work to strengthen it.

In order to Gatwick the article, first one must look for updates on the story and choose a more recent focal point that restores newsworthiness. In the Gatwick example, an article about drones causing chaos at the airport was given a new focus on a subsequent warning by police that drone operators should beware the consequences of unlawful misuse of their equipment. Once a new focal event has been found, move the article to a new headline, and rewrite the lede to match. Remember to provide sources for all the new material! A refocused synthesis article should have two mutually independent trust-worthy sources for the new focus.

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Evolved informal terms that entrench biases of thinking. These are often metonyms; and may be insidious because unobtrusive. A prime example is America used to refer to the United States.

Comparative segues. It's easy to fall into gluing together segments of text with constructs such as "[First statement]. However, [second statement]", "[First statement].  Moreover, [second statement]", "Despite [first statement], [second statement]". Generally avoid such constructs; we should not be telling the reader what relationship they should perceive between these segments. Following Strunk's directive to omit needless words, one might simply say "[First statement]. [Second statement]."

Choosing words for neutrality is somewhat the opposite of , in the non-pejorative sense of the term. Political correctness calls for choosing words to reflect some specific political position, whereas Wikinews neutrality calls for choosing words to be as politically non-reflective as possible.

Scientific results
Mainstream news media are often not at their best when covering scientific results. Take that into account when deciding how much credence to give to things various sources report about such stories.

 * Be particularly cautious of misuse of statistics; always ask, with great skepticism, what does this statistic actually mean? Correlation does not imply causation; two things that correlate might both be caused by some third thing.  A notorious sensationalist media blunder —sterotypical because it's happened so many times— is taking a study that concludes cautiously there is a statistically significant correlation between X and risk of cancer, and reporting it as "study shows X causes cancer".  The scientists doing the work knew better than to claim that; reporters should know better too.
 * Scrupulously attribute the results of a scientific study. Avoid saying such a study showed, revealed, or the like, as this could come across as an implicit endorsement (thus, bias).
 * Don't simplify results, which would be simply inaccurate. We don't aim to "dumb down" science, but we do write for a general audience, so we should write in a way that can be understood by a general audience.  (As a Wikinewsie noted years ago, treat the audience as intelligent but potentially ignorant.)

Unbiased coverage
Choice of what to cover can itself introduce bias, even though the things reported are factual with no bias in the way they are reported.

The burden of neutral coverage here is different from that of an encyclopedia, where carefully balanced presentation of mainstream thought on a topic is part of the expectation of a "neutral" article. A balanced presentation of mainstream thought can fall prey to mainstream bias, which news as a foundation for fact-based deliberation needs to avoid. News articles should provide an informative of events without misleadingly concealing any aspects. As they capture a moment in time rather than offering an endlessly calculated retelling, it is acceptable for an article to focus on one particular aspect of a story, rather than the whole, as long as it does so transparently and without misleading the reader.

Synthesis articles
Individual sources have biases; provided they can be trusted to try to report accurately, we can use them while taking their possible biases into account. Both deliberate and perspective-based omissions may occur; deliberate bias-by-omission arises especially in propagandist news outlets such as VOA or ; perspective-based bias-by-omission can occur much more widely, though some do particularly well (such as Al Jaz). Biasing factors, both deliberate and otherwise, are not limited to political or ideological; parties to a business transaction, for instance, are likely to omit mention of negative impacts in putting the best face on the deal. Consider carefully the possible perspective (not to mention propagandist) leanings of all sources. Look for trust-worthy sources likely to have different perspectives, even if they too may contain bias of their own sorts; we may thereby avoid overlooking important aspects of the story, while applying caution to each source according to its nature.

 * Relatively trust-worthy sources shared a perspective-based bias-by-omission, causing two not-ready reviews before revision augmenting the original sources — from BBC and VOA — with additions from , Al Jazeera, and NYT.
 * Relatively trust-worthy sources shared a perspective-based bias-by-omission, causing two not-ready reviews before revision augmenting the original sources — from BBC and VOA — with additions from , Al Jazeera, and NYT.

 * First submitted form had skewed emphasis due to preferred focus by sources (BBC and Time), causing a not-ready followed by revision.
 * First submitted form had skewed emphasis due to preferred focus by sources (BBC and Time), causing a not-ready followed by revision.

Original articles
Investigative OR (original reporting) needs to avoid misinterpretion.

Interviews focus on what the interviewee has to say. Coverage bias is then a matter of what questions the interviewer asks, and how they ask them. Ask questions to elicit interesting, useful information; don't ask to make a point. Avoid putting your own biases in to the questions, which could come out as either leading, solicitous, or confrontational depending on how those biases mesh or clash with the interviewee's views. Asking about controversial topics can be interesting and informative; picking a fight is inappropriate.

 * The interviewee's work had been the subject of a large and fraught debate on, on which the interviewer invited the interviewee to comment, but the interviewee could not (without excessive digression) be drawn into the complicated situation for comment, and remediation was needed during review; see discussion.
 * The interviewee's work had been the subject of a large and fraught debate on, on which the interviewer invited the interviewee to comment, but the interviewee could not (without excessive digression) be drawn into the complicated situation for comment, and remediation was needed during review; see discussion.

 * Oft sited as an extreme case of the principles that an interviewee's views needn't be mainstream nor sympathetic for the interview to be neutral.
 * Oft sited as an extreme case of the principles that an interviewee's views needn't be mainstream nor sympathetic for the interview to be neutral.

Choosing stories
Despite neutrality of each individual article, the overall distribution of Wikinews coverage is necessarily determined by the interests of Wikinews reporters. Given an entire world of possible news stories, this overall coverage can't help leaning in one direction or another. This cannot, and should not, be avoided: your interests are your motive for writing; embrace them. If you feel certain kinds of stories aren't getting enough coverage, you may be interested to write more articles of those kinds.

Some degree of bias, outside the laudable embracing of interests, can be generated by overall distribution of articles. As an individual defense against this, ask yourself whether you are choosing topics based on your interests, or based on your opinions; if you can't distinguish between the two, that may in itself suggest a difficulty worth further thought.

Opinions pages
The opinions page of an article (in the wiki's  namespace) is the place to discuss opinions about the topic of the article; as opposed to discussing the composition of the article, which is preferably done on the article's collaboration page (in the wiki's   namespace). The opinions page is created when, and not before, publication, because prior to publication there is no vetted or stable content on which to base opinions. Opinions pages have to tolerate unpopular opinions; the classic scenario is that if we interview a Neo-Nazi it would be unfair not to allow supporters of that ideology to defend their position on the opinions page. However, administrators should remove trolling remarks, which seek to shut down meaningful discussion.

title: Wikinews:Neutrality


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User talk:Davidfus

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User talk:Ibrahim silla hissein

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User talk:JinaHicks6131

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title: User talk:JinaHicks6131


text: Comments:Wikinews investigates disappearance of Indonesian cargo ship Namse Bangdzod


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User talk:Aleden2828`

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 00:43, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

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User talk:Nahuel Abud

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User talk:SommerButt

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User talk:MarlonCheesman

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title: User talk:MarlonCheesman


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Scientists report correlation between locations of Easter Island statues and water resources

January 12, 2019

A United-States-based team of scientists released findings on Thursday about the large statues that dot the island of Rapa Nui, also called Easter Island. The study, published on Thursday in , employed quantitative to establish that the platforms, or, built to support the Easter Island statues, or , are usually located near sources of drinkable water. This feeds into the scholarly discussion of whether the purpose of the statues was exclusively ritualistic, practical or some combination of these. The study examined 93 statues on the western side of the island, all of which were built before contact with Europeans. They compared the sites of the statues to sites associated with the specific resources: the kind of rock the statues are made of, the kind of rock used for tools, fishing, vegetable and potato cultivation, and water sources. The archaeologists say that this study is the first attempt to formally examine the idea that the locations of the moai are correlated to locations of resources important to the people who built them, such as fresh water.

Easter Island does not have streams that run nonstop but it does have an that produces  of  but drinkable water during low tide. Most of these water harvesting sites are along the coast but a few are inland—and so are the ahu.

"What is important about it is that it demonstrates the statue locations themselves are not a weird ritual place – [the ahu and moai] represent ritual in a sense of there is symbolic meaning to them, but they are integrated into the lives of the community," said study co-author Professor Carl Lipo of. He went on to add "The exceptions to the rule about being at the coast where water comes out actually are met by the fact there is also water there – it is found through cave locations," referring to caves with fresh water, and that some historical evidence suggests there may have been wells dug near the ahu that are not near caves.

The researchers plan to gather information on more freshwater resources so they can evaluate statue sites on the rest of Easter Island.

Jo Anne Val Tilburg of the University of California, Los Angeles disagreed with these findings: "The existence of fresh water seeps near coastal ahu is well-known and was certainly important at European contact. However, such seeps are today, and probably always were, minor resources. It is highly unlikely, in my view, that these resources were of major importance in locating ahu during prehistory."

The earliest moai date to the 13th century. They vary in size but are about fourteen feet (four meters) tall and can weigh about fourteen tons. Scholars have long wondered about the role they played for the people who built them.

Easter Island is today a relatively barren place with scanty resources. Easter Island is located 2300 miles (3700 km) off the west coast of South America and 1,100 miles (1770 km) from its nearest neighbor island. It today has a grass-dominated landscape but it was once mostly covered by palm forests and it was home to a significant human population for a few hundred years. Scientists debate whether its environmental degradation, in the form of the loss of its palm forests and soil to erosion, was caused by human activity, natural climate change, or by rats and other introduced species that stowed away on the colonists' boats, but there is consensus that the island's environment changed considerably over time.


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User talk:Cacadoresdetrolls

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 04:34, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

title: User talk:Cacadoresdetrolls


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Talk:Scientists report correlation between locations of Easter Island statues and water resources

Here's hoping
Two sources and only one day old (as it's now Friday on Wikinews). Sincerely hoping, here. --Pi zero (talk) 05:02, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I wrote it late at night and wanted to let it sit for a minute. Then sleep happened. Darkfrog24 (talk) 12:47, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Been there, done that. --Pi zero (talk) 13:37, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * As have I :P BRS  (Talk)   (Contribs) 00:43, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

If nobody beats me to it (a fairly safe assumption, at this point, but you never know) I will see what I can do early afternoon UTC. BRS (Talk)   (Contribs) 00:43, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I added SciAm because I was on the fence about the reliability of NatGeo. I mean they're reliable in general but this looked like travel advocacy, so I added the Scientific American source for the content about the scientific speculation about the history of Easter Island.  The only stuff supported solely by NatGeo is currently the distances of Easter Island from other landmasses and the dimensions of the statues, for which I am confident NatGeo is reliable.
 * Weirdly enough, the Scientific American article is in British English, "artefact" and all. Darkfrog24 (talk) 02:32, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Looks like you've got the wrong URL for the SciAm article. --Pi zero (talk) 02:41, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Oh, is "artefact" considered British spelling? I've never entirely trusted "rules" about what is American vs British.  Local dialects and even idiolects may vary.  Some of my usages are supposedly "British", likely because I'm a New England native.  Though I'm no so keen on mixing conventions that I appreciate my laptop using an American spelling dictionary in my text editor but a British spelling dictionary in my web browser (or is it the other way around...). --Pi zero (talk) 03:23, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Well that's what dictionaries and style guides are for. Yup, "artefact" is as British as the tea and crumpets and knowing that Big Ben is the name of the bell and not the whole tower except it's sort of shifted to become the name of both. Darkfrog24 (talk)

most likely English US for the OS. Changing the language changes the keyboard and '@' swaps with '"'. Tilde's position messes up, too. 223.227.15.24 (talk) 05:50, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The OS has been US English all along, yes. Other software sometimes comes with its own dictionary, so variety mismatches come and go. Re dictionaries and style guides, I generally treat them as I would news sources, potentially insightful but not inherently authoritative, to be judged case-by-case.  That's why e.g. when I resort to dead-tree dictionaries I usually consult several (we've got a compact OED (I mean the original, I avoid the new one), a Webster's Second (I avoid the third), a Random House Second, and, fwiw, a Random House First). --Pi zero (talk) 13:03, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Atm, I find by experiment, my text editor prefers "valor", my web browser, "valour". Though I deely disapprove, in any case, that automatic spell-checkers can't recognize when the rules change since they deal only with the forms of words, never the meaning of the text; as when one is quoting Shakespeare or, even more insidiously, shifting momentarily into Elizabethan mode. --Pi zero (talk) 13:25, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * My personal solution is to gradually add new versions to my spellcheck as and when I encounter them. With enwn global in output, it is useful and convenient to have them all covered and to choose which one manually. BRS  (Talk)   (Contribs) 13:30, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

 * I still have Things to Do in the Real World, but I'm still planing to review this on my return from meatspace. BRS  (Talk)   (Contribs) 14:22, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, considering I was a WT:MOS regular and worked on articles about punctuation and language, a lot of my experience on Wikipedia with using style guides as a source has been that they're the best sources that exist for that subject matter, and sometimes the only ones. Whenever someone says "Don't use a style guide! Also you're wrong and I'm right." And I say "Well do you have a source that says you're right?  You got an article from a linguistics journal?  You got a book?  A newspaper article?  You got a blog post from a linguistics professor?  Maybe a published lecture; there might be one on YouTube.  Did Language Log ever cover this?  'Cause all of those are good sources.  If you don't want to put it in the article but just convince me here on this talk page, you could tell me where you got what you're saying.  Was it a college course on linguistics?" and then they shuffle their feet, change the subject and accuse me of being a %$##&ing $#@& who @$%#*s $#**@s.  Generally, there don't tend to be sources that contradict the style guides. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:49, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * On one hand, despite the value of knowing one's way around such source material (which should not be underestimated), it's possible to be too fond of sources. Not all wisdom comes from sources; it's always necessary to think about the whole context of the situation.  As I recall noticing from some articles we did a few years ago, the highest OECD literacy level is ability to assess reliability of sources, which they figured was a level of literacy only achieved by maybe a percent or two of the population even in the most literate populations.  I remarked at the time, reviewers do that on Wikinews all the time, intensively, assessing sources. But on the other hand, by that same belief in the importance of case-by-case context, it's hazardous to try to discuss something like this in the abstract. --Pi zero (talk) 17:05, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Well, any given project (WMF or otherwise) may have a good reason to do its own thing. My view is to do as the experts do unless and until you can convince me of a damn good reason otherwise. (Which, in practice, is do as the experts do: I can't offhand think of any occasion such a reason has ever actually turned up.) All of the sources you mentioned are respected for a reason, and we would do well to avoid conflicting with them unless they themselves were in conflict with some mysterious Other Consideration; the fact I can think of no such considerations thus far is self-evident of the amount of caution required to do such. Anyways, I'm going to start reviewing in a second. BRS  (Talk)   (Contribs) 17:09, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * <nods> I've got a few minutes' worth of stuff to do off-line, and then I figure I'll dive into review-mode myself. --Pi zero (talk)

wikify
wikify 103.254.128.86 (talk) 18:16, 12 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I actively prefer the bracket style because it doesn't activate the green underlining. Darkfrog24 (talk) 03:16, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Even after full archiving, though, we do put non-local links in w unless they specifically need to be permanently non-local, and even then I s'pose one might prefer to use w with .  I think I saw some links here to wiktionary using  . --Pi zero (talk) 03:24, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Evidently, not everyone understands what the template requests: avoid hard links where it should not exist. •–• 04:17, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
 * I fully acknowledge that I do not understand a lot of this stuff, but that link just leads straight back to the article. Was it meant to go to some Wikinews policy or essay?  At the time of my previous reply, there was a big blue box that read " An editor has requested to use  and  for linking instead of ... and ... respectively. Don't forget to wikilink keywords. " Darkfrog24 (talk) 02:50, 14 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Not everything is in the policy, not everything has to be in the policy. It is a no-brainer to make use of w and wikt instead of hard links to the project.  Hard links should be used only when they are necessary. •–•  03:59, 14 January 2019 (UTC)


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User talk:NoahFouts130927

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title: User talk:NoahFouts130927


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User talk:TheFrenchTickler1031

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User talk:Gausanchennai

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 09:55, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikinews, Gausanchennai! Are you from South Korea? --Gryllida (talk) 00:40, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Wikinews writing
Hi. I see you've been thinking about writing styles. The principles we use on Wikinews take some practice to get used to. I recommend reading first Pillars of writing, which is a compact overview of what we do here; then Writing an article, which is a good tutorial on writing a first Wikinews article. --Pi zero (talk) 17:45, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

title: User talk:Gausanchennai


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User talk:Theonepercentrule

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User talk:Antonia6548

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User talk:LarhondaNation0

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User talk:Kouta lives

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User talk:Brooklynboy1949

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User talk:SpaceMAXUE

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 15:27, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

Contributing
Hi. There's a compact overview of what we do here at Pillars of writing. Then, there's a good tutorial on writing a first article at Writing an article. Cheers. --Pi zero (talk) 16:21, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

title: User talk:SpaceMAXUE


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User talk:Susy 11

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User talk:Sabmysl

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User talk:Iamkasai

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 16:17, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

It's late and I'm tired and this is the sort of Wikinews article I like to write, but I saw your userpage and something in my brain suggested that perhaps you might enjoy drafting it. Thought I'd offer a new guy some dibs. Anywho, sleep for me will be for a while, so you've got time. Darkfrog24 (talk) 05:05, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

title: User talk:Iamkasai


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User:Iamkasai

WARNING NOT POLITICALLY CORRECT

My Wikipedia Page

Life:
I was born and raised in Fort Smith, Arkansas, where I currently do not reside. I grew up with the whitest of hair, soon to turn blonde. Around 2014 I stared to get into Web Development. Although I knew about other programming languages and saw HTML, CSS, and Javascript as not difficult. Around 2016, at age 14 I decided to learn other languages, but fell apart as I couldn't focus my life around programming, but I knew it was going to be apart of my future career. Then around summer of 2017 I came up with an idea, an idea that will be disclosed for now but a future business idea that will change me forever. It's 2018 currently, I am 16 years of age, and I'm dedicated to programming.

Awesome GIFs:
thanks to User:Cyp for Octahedron Oh, great almighty Windows, we shall never worship any false idols! Amen.

title: User:Iamkasai


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User talk:Obakeng-electrobux

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title: User talk:Obakeng-electrobux


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User talk:Withoon prasopchok

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title: User talk:Withoon prasopchok


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User talk:MollieRidgeway

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User talk:SaAbser

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State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven

January 12, 2019

A bus operated by, which is run by the Cuban military's tourist section, crashed on Thursday between and. It was carrying a mix of locals and foreigners from Baracoa to Havana. The crash reportedly killed seven. The bus overturned in wet conditions; the bus driver told reporters he lost control, with some local press claiming he was attempting to pass another vehicle. The front-left section of the vehicle was heavily damaged in the rollover. At least one seat was pictured lying beside the wreck. According to reports, of the 40 passengers, 22 were Cuban.

Foreign nationals were from France, Mexico, the Netherlands, Canada, and the United Kingdom. Four of the deceased were from overseas; they were two Argentinians, one from France, and a fourth from Germany.

The crash took place on a bendy road at around 15:00 local time. Cuban roads suffer a large number of accidents; 2018 saw 11,187 recorded accidents leading to 750 deaths and 7,999 injuries. Sky News said Thursday's accident was the fourth major bus crash in a month. In addition to the deaths, 33 were reported hopitalised with five seriously injured.


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User talk:KyleHytten0

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User talk:GlennaMotsinger

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User talk:WaspWatcher

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User talk:Doughknut

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User talk:Keffercarl

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User talk:EdnaVasey94

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User talk:Dm8233

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User talk:MindaLebron62

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User talk:CrystleGrieve4

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User talk:MelaineWhitcomb

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text: Category:Havana

title: Category:Havana


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User talk:ChristianeYov

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User talk:MireyaBeor7063

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User talk:VernonHolub

-- Wikinews Welcome (talk) 03:41, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

--Pi zero (talk) 04:01, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

title: User talk:VernonHolub


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User talk:Yolanda8382

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User talk:Alcchris1

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User talk:Larankin

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User talk:Coldeacristian

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User talk:DarleneDickinson

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text: Talk:State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven


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Thread:Comments:State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven

It has been found by me that the usage of English language for describing the incident is found to be below average. The quality of presentation needs improvement


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Thread:Comments:State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/reply

I see nothing whatever problematic about the article's English usage. What about it do you disapprove of?


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Thread:Comments:State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/reply (2)

The bus overturned in wet conditions; the bus driver told reporters he lost control, with some local press claiming he was attempting to pass another vehicle. The front-left section of the vehicle was heavily damaged in the rollover. At least one seat was pictured lying beside the wreck. According to reports, of the 40 passengers, 22 were Cuban.

Foreign nationals were from France, Mexico, the Netherlands, Canada, and the United Kingdom. Four of the deceased were from overseas; they were two Argentinians, one from France, and a fourth from Germany.

The crash took place on a bendy road at around 15:00 local time. Cuban roads suffer a large number of accidents; 2018 saw 11,187 recorded accidents leading to 750 deaths and 7,999 injuries. Sky News said Thursday's accident was the fourth major bus crash in a month. In addition to the deaths, 33 were reported hopitalised with five seriously injured.

The following corrections can be done: The bus overturned under wet conditions and while the bus driver told reporters that he had lost control, the local press claimed that he was attempting to overtake another vehicle. At least one seat was found damaged lying beside the wreck The crash took place on a road-bend. A large number of accidents werefound to occur on Cuban roads and there were 11187 accidents during 2018 leading to 750 deaths and 7999 persons getting injured. In addition to the deaths, 33 were reported hospitalised with five seriously injured.

My views:


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Thread:Comments:State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/reply (3)

Nothing is wrong with the article content as it stands. There are multiple ways to say and not everyone is going to stick to your recommendations. "Avoid unnecessary words" is what one should try to achieve. But they should also avoid BS, so well wrapping this with a word of notice for peers: DFTT.


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Thread:Comments:State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/reply (4)

To critique your suggested revision. It both tends to analyze the situation (which is contrary to our neutrality policy), and changes the facts presented in some ways that aren't verifiably accurate. For example: You say "and while the bus driver told reporters that he had lost control, the local press claimed that he was attempting to overtake another vehicle"; but that ties together the facts with connective words that tell the reader how to interpret the relationships between the facts, whereas we strive to report the facts without analysis so that readers are free to choose their own informed opinions. You say "At least one seat was found damaged lying beside the wreck"; but this suggests that the seat ended up where it was as part of the accident, and we pointedly didn't report that because, from our study of the sources, we weren't sure whether the seat was separated from the bus during the accident or removed during rescue efforts.


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text:
Arrest made as mayor of Gdańsk, Poland stabbed on stage

January 14, 2019

An individual has been arrested after Paweł Adamowicz, mayor of the Polish city of Gdańsk, was stabbed last night whilst on stage at a fundraising event. He died today.

Reports on the implement used vary between a knife and a "sharp tool". The attacker is reported to have jumped on stage during the and claimed he was wrongfully imprisoned under Adamowicz's former party 's time in government. Adamowicz was an early supporter of democracy, and has been mayor since 1998.

Ex-Prime Minister Donald Tusk, the current President of the, wrote "Let's all pray for Mayor Adamowicz. Paweł, we are with you." Tusk, a founding Civic Platform member, is from Gdańsk. Interior Minister called the stabbing "an act of inexplicable barbarity." He said "I can’t find the words, an explanation, for this kind of act. Especially since the finale of the Great Orchestra of Christmas Charity has for the last 27 years always been associated with good, with something joyful, positive."

The fundraiser was intending this year to obtain money for children's hospitals to buy equipment. It raises money annually to assist the nation's medical services.

Brudziński said Adamowicz required resuscitation, and was in a "serious" condition; reported he received surgery. Prime Minister tweeted "We are with Mayor Adamowicz in our ." President Andrzej Duda remarked, "Today I am unconditionally with him and his loved ones, just as I hope all of us compatriots are. I pray for his return to health and full strength." Duda told local media Adamowicz's heart was restarted by doctors "and there is hope, but his condition is very difficult." Police spokesman Mariusz Ciarka said a press badge was used by the assailant, reported by The Guardian as convicted of assaults and by Associated Press of bank robberies, to gain entry. The detained suspect's identity is restricted to 'Stefan W' owing to Polish privacy legislation.

Adamowicz was taken to the, where Dr. Tomasz Stefaniak was met with applause early today upon announcing to journalists Adamowicz remained alive. "The next hours will decide everything," Stefaniak said. Politicians and the Archbishop of Gdańsk,, were reported by local media to have visited the hospital while Adamowicz received emergency surgery.

Adamowicz subsequently was announced to have died. Health Minister said "We couldn’t win," and the city flag is at half-mast. Gdańsk residents donated blood by the hundreds today in a bid to assist. Vigils nationwide this evening were attended by thousands.

Adamowicz, 53, has supported LGBT rights and the inclusion of minority groups. He recently condemned after vandalism against a synagogue in the city. Adamowicz was at the event after collecting money for the organisation in Gdańsk's streets alongside volunteers nationwide.

A potential charge of murder against Stefan W carries a possible life sentence. Prosecutor Krzysztof Sierak told reporters today psychiatric assessments will be carried out to confirm if Stefan W is fit for trial.


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text: Comments:Insulin levels tied to Alzheimer's


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Talk:Arrest made as mayor of Gdańsk, Poland stabbed on stage

Edit
editprotected

"Adamowicz, 53, has supported LGBT rights and and the inclusion of minority groups." "And" is repeated. Heavy Water (talk) 14:12, 10 January 2023 (UTC)
 * Done. [24Cr][talk] 17:54, 12 January 2023 (UTC)


text: Comments:Arrest made as mayor of Gdańsk, Poland stabbed on stage


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Thread:Comments:State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/reply (5)

These are not changes to English usage; these are changes to facts, away from what it known to be true:

"The bus overturned under wet conditions and while the bus driver told reporters that he had lost control, the local press claimed that he was attempting to overtake another vehicle." Not only does this, as PiZ mentions, imply interpretation, it also falsely implies mutual exclusivity. Which is absurd if one follows it through to its logical end point: that if the bus rolled during an overtake, that would mean it was in control. Clearly, the true position is these could both be true: The bus driver could have lost control and it could have happened on an overtake.

"At least one seat was found damaged lying beside the wreck." As PiZ remarks, there is nothing in the sources that says any such thing. Emergency services can and do cut away seats in road accidents to extricate the injured, sometimes including the fatally injured.

"The crash took place on a road-bend." Also not verified in the sources. The road is bendy; that doesn't mean the accident was at one of those bends.

"A large number of accidents werefound[sic] to occur on Cuban roads and there were 11187 accidents during 2018 leading to 750 deaths and 7999 persons getting injured." Quite apart from the ill-advised removal of the comma from large numbers, this wording suggests the count was a surprise. The sources don't suggest this was unknown at any stage during the accumulation of accidents through the year.

Sky News said Thursday's accident was the fourth major bus crash in a month. I see no valid reason to remove the context of this being one of a string of serious bus accidents in a short timeframe, and I note you give none beyond it being a "correction" of "English language". It is no such thing; it is wholesale removal of an important detail to understanding the broader picture. This is the sort of information that will only grow in value as it recedes into our archive, which, as the name suggests, is available (to everyone, always) as a research resource in the years and decades to come.

It seems to me the quality of your reading comprehension is what needs improvement. Fortunately, you've come to a good place to achieve that.


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Thread:Comments:State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/wrong picture description?

the picture looks more like a coach than any bus that I've seen unless they only use coaches in Cuba instead of globally standardised high floor and low floor buses? - e.g. Alexander Dennis Enviro 200 or General Motors (GM) Fishbowl.....?


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User talk:AlinaTunnecliffe

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Thread:Comments:State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/wrong picture description?/reply

I think we're quite safe calling it a bus. The terminology of "coach" as distinct from "bus" isn't a general-English thing, and I'm not even finding an evident footprint for regional use of "coach" in a way that excludes "bus". The relevant en.wikt definition of bus is
 * 1. (automotive) A motor vehicle for transporting large numbers of people along roads.

and of coach,
 * 4. (Britain, Australia) A single-decked long-distance, or privately hired, bus.

There's an en.wp article coach (bus), which starts
 * A coach (also motor coach) is a type of bus used for conveying passengers. In contrast to transit buses that typically are used within a single metropolitan region, coaches are used for longer-distance bus service.

I doubt the common currency of that coach-versus-transite-bus terminology, as it sounds industry-internal, but even if one were to take it as gospel it would still make a coach a kind of bus, just not a transit bus.


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Thread:Comments:State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/wrong picture description?/reply (2)

The National Transportation Safety Board of the United States deems bus to be an appropriate noun for a motorcoach. It being North America, I'd deem that a good source as to how English is used, and where. Are you the same as the user who tried, and failed, to try and change facts, below?


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Wikinews:Water cooler/technical/archives/2018/December

Inherently unhelpful protection message
Consider the Main Page. The message that comes when an user tries to edit it (see left) is pretty generic (infact, it's the Mediawiki default).

That message won't even tell you whether it's semi-protected or fully protected.

Most other Wikimedia sites do it properly; see Wikibooks' main page. It also tells you why the page is protected, and what one can do about it.

Shouldn't the messages be changed (i.e, by importing it from elsewhere) so that they are more helpful? Leaderboard (talk) 16:37, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

 * Makes sense. Do you, perchance, know what the MediaWiki-space hooks are for this? (In the longer term, I hope to devise a mechanism so that when someone tries to edit a page that's protected, they'll get a semi-automated assistant and may be given an opportunity to "edit" the page thereby generating an editprotected request on the talk page that, in turn, offers a semi-automated assistant to a user with higher privs that they can use to examine the proposal, and accept reject or modify it.  This would be a very cool facility.  Not there yet.) --Pi zero (talk) 16:53, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * For Wikibooks, it's here. Hence Wikinews' equivalent is at here, and it's barren, as expected. Leaderboard (talk) 17:54, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * Looking at the hard-to-read code on Wikibooks, and comparing it to the differently obscure code on Wikipedia, it seems clear to me this needs to be done carefully, to modularize it in a way that supports the sort of customizations we'll want for Wikinews. I'll try to focus on this and work it out promptly (though stuff on the review queue tends to take priority). --Pi zero (talk) 19:31, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
 * See my sandbox; I've copied the code from Wikibooks and made it more Wikinews-y (though I should note that the template is dynamic and doesn't show its full capabilities inside my sandbox). I've also copied a template (with its documentation) as part of it (you'll need to perform a history merge to it). Leaderboard (talk) 12:45, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I have some thoughts on this, but am atm in the midst of one of those moments of being overwhelmed with immediate priorities. (Nowadays we don't use the traditional types of boxes at Wikinews; I favor xambox as a general-purpose device; and there's a very-long-standing low-level debate running here over whether it's okay to import "code"-type infrastructure from Wikipedia, as opposed to content... but really those are side issues.) --Pi zero (talk) 17:21, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I've tried something. Further customizations should be primarily in template space. --Pi zero (talk) 08:01, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
 * It's a significant improvement, however, the same message is displayed whether the protected page is semi or full. Leaderboard (talk) 14:20, 10 December 2018 (UTC)
 * One Wikinewsie (off-wiki, as I recall) said it's worse, rather than better; but, as I recall —admittedly it's been a while since I did this— it's designed so that customized templates can be created for various specific situations, and then there's a default used in specific situations where no customized template has been provided. --Pi zero (talk) 14:29, 10 December 2018 (UTC)


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User talk:QOXNathan5869

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Thread:Comments:State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/reply (6)

Thank you for your explanation. It is my observation and the best part of any blogger is to accept criticism from others. Among millions of readers I came forward to suggest my opinion by spending some time. Anyhow thank you once again for your patient replying


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Thread:Comments:State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/State-run bus crashes in Cuba en route to Havana, killing seven/reply (7)

And thank you for your gracious response. :)


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Iranian cargo plane crashes into Karaj houses

January 15, 2019

A cargo plane, reported by local press as belonging to the Iranian military, crashed into houses in, near Tehran, the Iranian capital, yesterday. All but one of the sixteen on-board died; no deaths were reported on the ground, with local media reporting no-one was in the houses. The aircraft came down into a residential area between, where it was attempting to land, and. Fath Airport is owned by the. State media reported the cockpit voice recorder was recovered. The army said the plane was bringing meat from, Kyrgyzstan "to help the country's economy."

said the crash involved pilot error. The lone survivor was a flight engineer. The entire crew were Iranians, the army said. said the crash was followed by a fire. Photographs showed the aircraft, sans wings, with the cockpit buried within a house and twisted engine parts strewn around.

 reported the failed landing at Fath, which has a much shorter runway than Payam, was a mistake and the jet was supposed to land at Payam. The industry publication stated the aircraft overran the runway and broke through a perimeter barrier. It cited the as stating  owned the plane, and claimed a reported sixteenth death.

In 2018 another aircraft confused the two airports, performing an emergency at "very low height" according to The Aviation Herald.

The Centre for Aviation's database of air carriers lists Saha as belonging to the Air Force and states it runs flights with Boeing 707s and s, but uses s for freight. Airfleets, a database detailing the aircraft operated by commercial carriers, states the aircraft uses the A300 and 747 as well as the. It does not, however, list any 707s. The Aviation Herald states the 707 was a freighter, despite photos showing a row of windows along each side; it lists a of EP-CPP.

Wikinews contacted Boeing in an effort to establish the plane's initial configuration when manufactured. Boeing did not release any specific information about the initial build, telling Wikinews the company "extends its profound condolences to the families and friends of those lost[...] as well as our best wishes for the recovery of those injured." Boeing referred to the 707 involved as a "cargo plane".

Iran's air fleet is ageing, with sanctions restricting the purchase of both new planes and parts to maintain those already owned.


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Lion Air disaster: Crashed jet's voice recorder recovered from Java Sea

January 16, 2019

The National Transportation Safety Committee of Indonesia on Monday announced the from  has been recovered from the Java Sea. All 189 on the aircraft died when the flight came down last October. The device was located and recovered "broken into two pieces" from under eight (about 25 ) of mud, according to investigators. The new was not airworthy, investigators have said, and should not have taken off. It was commencing a journey from Jakarta to and hit the ocean at speed shortly after asking  to return. It disintegrated upon impact.

The location of the device, and the location of the recovered in November, were around 50 m (165 ft) apart. Authorities said they found human remains nearby the second recorder.

Lion Air has been funding extended searches for both the recorder and outstanding human remains. The aircraft had been operating for days with a malfunctioning indicator; its  sensor had recently been replaced. Preliminary investigations suggest a new feature on the 737 Max, which had not suffered a crash before, was forcing the nose down in an erroneous attempt to prevent an aerodynamic stall, while the pilots tried and failed to correct this.


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Category:Donald Tusk

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text: Comments:Kaczynski elected as the new president of Poland, according to polls


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Contributing
Hi. This is English Wikinews; we only accept contributions in English. We also do not accept opinion pieces. Please read Pillars of writing, a compact overview of what we do here. Then, if you're interested in trying your hand at an article here, there's a good tutorial at Writing an article. --Pi zero (talk) 13:00, 17 January 2019 (UTC)

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