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Neturei Karta

Neturei Karta (, lit. 'Guardians of the City') is a fringe religious group of Haredi Jews that was founded in Jerusalem in 1938 after splitting off from Agudat Yisrael. It is an active opponent of Zionism and advocates a "peaceful dismantling" of the State of Israel under the belief that the Jewish people are strictly forbidden from re-establishing sovereignty in the Land of Israel until the arrival of the Messiah. To this end, the group's members believe that the existence of a Jewish state is a rebellion against God as it did not occur with divine intervention through the Messiah.

In Israel, some Neturei Karta members also pray at affiliated beth midrash, having a presence in Jerusalem's Mea Shearim and in Ramat Beit Shemesh Bet. The group has stated that it does not keep an official count of its membership.

Etymology
Originally, the organization was called Chevrat HaChayim (Society of Life); however, this name was quickly supplanted in favor of the name Neturei Karta.

The name Neturei Karta literally means "Guardians of the City" in Aramaic and is derived from a narrative on page 76c of Tractate Hagigah in the Jerusalem Talmud. There, it is related that Rabbi Judah haNasi sent two rabbis on a tour of inspection: In one town they asked to see the "guardians of the city" and the city guard was paraded before them. They said that these were not the guardians of the city but its destroyers, which prompted the citizens to ask who, then, could be considered the guardians. The rabbis answered, "The scribes and the scholars," referring them to Tehillim (Psalms) Chapter 127.

It is this role that Neturei Karta see themselves as fulfilling by defending what they believe is "the position of the Torah and authentic unadulterated Judaism."

Origins
Generally, members of Neturei Karta are descendants of Hungarian Jews and Lithuanian Jews who were students of the Gaon of Vilna (known as Perushim) who had settled in Jerusalem in the early nineteenth century. In the late nineteenth century, their ancestors participated in the creation of new neighborhoods outside the city walls to alleviate overcrowding in the Old City, and most are now concentrated in the neighborhood of Batei Ungarin and the larger Meah Shearim neighborhood. Members of the Malachim are also prominently represented within Neturei Karta.

While there are no official population statistics available, in 1971, they were reported to consist of several hundred families in Israel and throughout the diaspora. As recent as 2007, the group was reported to have a few thousand members.

Anti-Zionism
At the time, they were vocal opponents to the new political ideology of Zionism that was attempting to assert Jewish sovereignty in Ottoman-controlled Palestine. They resented the new arrivals, who were predominantly non-religious, while they asserted that Jewish redemption could be brought about only by the Jewish messiah.

Neturei Karta was founded by Rabbi Amram Blau and Rabbi Aharon Katzenelbogen. Rabbi Blau was a native of Meah Shearim in Jerusalem and was active in the Agudat Israel during the British Mandate era. However, by the 1930s, the Aguda began to adopt a more compromising and accommodationist approach to the Zionist movement. This caused Rabbi Blau to split with the Aguda in 1937 and cofound Chevrat HaChayim (with Rabbi Katzenelbogen), which was soon to be known thereafter as Neturei Karta.

Other Orthodox Jewish movements, including some who oppose Zionism, have denounced the activities of the radical branch of Neturei Karta. According to The Guardian, "[e]ven among Haredi, or ultra-Orthodox circles, the Neturei Karta are regarded as a wild fringe". Neturei Karta is sometimes confused with Satmar, due to both being anti-Zionist; however, they are separate groups and have had disagreements. For example, Satmar criticized Neturei Karta for attending a 2006 Holocaust revisionist conference in Iran. Neturei Karta asserts that the mass media deliberately downplays their viewpoint and makes them out to be few in number. Their protests in America are usually attended by, at most, a few dozen people. In Israel, the group's protests typically attract several hundred participants, depending on the nature of the protest and its location.

In July 2013, the Shin Bet arrested a 46-year-old member of Neturei Karta for allegedly attempting to spy on Israel for Iran. As part of a plea deal, the man was sentenced to 4$1⁄2$ years in prison. Neturei Karta has denied that he had ever been a member of their group.

Neturei Karta's website states that its members "frequently participate[s] in public burning of the Israeli flag." On the Jewish holiday of Purim, Neturei Karta members have routinely burned Israeli flags in celebrations in cities such as London, Brooklyn and Jerusalem.

While many in Neturei Karta chose to simply ignore the State of Israel, this has become more difficult. Some took steps to condemn Israel and bring about its eventual dismantling until the coming of the Messiah. Chief among these was Moshe Hirsch, leader of an activist branch of Neturei Karta, who served in Yasser Arafat's cabinet as Minister for Jewish Affairs.

Exile of the Jewish people
Neturei Karta stress what is said in the mussaf Shemona Esrei ("The Standing Prayer") of Yom Tov, that because of their sins, the Jewish people went into exile from the Land of Israel ("umipnei chatoeinu golinu meiartzeinu). Additionally, they maintain the view – based on the Babylonian Talmud – that any form of forceful recapture of the Land of Israel is a violation of divine will. They believe that the restoration of the Land of Israel to the Jews should happen only with the coming of the Messiah, not by self-determination.

Conditions for a Jewish state
Neturei Karta believe that the exile of the Jews can end only with the arrival of the Messiah, and that human attempts to establish Jewish sovereignty over the Land of Israel are sinful. In Neturei Karta's view, Zionism is a presumptuous affront against God. Chief among their arguments against Zionism is the Talmudic concept of the so-called Three Oaths, extracted from the discussion of certain portions of the Bible. It states that a pact consisting of three oaths was made between God, the Jewish people, and the nations of the world, when the Jews were sent into exile. One provision of the pact was that the Jews would not rebel against the non-Jewish world that gave them sanctuary; a second was that they would not immigrate en masse to the Land of Israel. In return, the gentile nations promised not to persecute the Jews. By rebelling against this pact, they argued, the Jewish people were engaging in rebellion against God.

The Neturei Karta synagogues follow the customs of the Gaon of Vilna, due to Neturei Karta's origin within the Lithuanian rather than Hasidic branch of Haredi Judaism. Neturei Karta is not a Hasidic but a Litvish group; they are often mistaken for Hasidim because their style of dress (including a shtreimel on Shabbos) is very similar to that of Hasidim. This style of dress is not unique to Neturei Karta, but is also the style of other Jerusalem Litvaks, such as Rabbi Yosef Sholom Eliashiv and his followers. Furthermore, Shomer Emunim, a Hasidic group with a similar anti-Zionist ideology, is often bundled together with Neturei Karta. Typically, the Jerusalem Neturei Karta will keep the customs of the "Old Yishuv of the city of Jerusalem even when living outside of Jerusalem or even when living abroad, as a demonstration of their love for and connection to the Holy Land.

In support of Palestinians
In addition to halakhic opposition to the organization of a Jewish state in the Holy Land, Neturei Karta also criticizes Israeli policies of aggression towards Palestinian people, stating that the "brutal treatment of the Palestinian people [...] is in violation of the Torah." They have rejected the claim that Israel is democratic, citing what they refer to as racist, genocidal treatment of Palestinians. They call for the return of all Palestinians refugees to "their rightful land" and attribute the degradation of Jewish-Muslim relations, as well as the bloodshed of both Arabs and Israeli Jews, to Zionism, noting that before the creation of Israel, both peoples lived together in peace.

Factionalism
In the United States, the Neturei Karta were led by Moshe Ber Beck of Monsey, New York until his death in 2021. They affiliate with the radical branch that was led by Moshe Hirsch. Beck had courted controversy by meeting with Nation of Islam leader Minister Louis Farrakhan, who has been accused of inciting antisemitism and of describing Judaism as a "gutter religion" (Farrakhan says his words were misinterpreted). In addition, after meeting with the representatives from Neturei Karta, Farrakhan indicated he would be more cautious in his choice of words in the future.

Relations with the Palestinians
After two men associated with the radical branch of Neturei Karta participated in a 2004 prayer vigil for Yasser Arafat outside the Percy Military Hospital in Paris, France, where he lay on his death bed, the radical branch of Neturei Karta was widely condemned by other Orthodox Jewish organizations, including many other anti-Zionist Haredi organizations, both in New York and Jerusalem. Moshe Hirsch, and what Hirsch's faction described as an "impressive contingent" of other members, attended Arafat's funeral in Ramallah.

Almost a year after the Gaza War, a group of Neturei Karta members crossed into Gaza as part of the Gaza Freedom March to celebrate Jewish Shabbos and show support for Palestinians in the Hamas-ruled enclave.

In January 2023, three members of Neturei Karta met with prominent Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ) officials and families of Palestinian militants during a visit to the Jenin refugee camp. The Neturei Karta members also visited the home of Bassam al-Saadi, who was jailed by Israel for PIJ leadership activities. Upon their return to Israel, Israeli authorities arrested two of the Neturei Karta members for unlawful entry to Area A of the West Bank. The Satmar rebbe publicly denounced the group for their conduct, remarking in his speech that "It is a terrible desecration of God's name to support murderers in the name of the holy Torah and God's name."

Relations with Iran and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
In October 2005, Neturei Karta leader Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss issued a statement criticising Jewish attacks on Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Weiss wrote that Ahmadinejad's statements were not "indicative of anti-Jewish sentiments", but rather, "a yearning for a better, more peaceful world", and "re-stating the beliefs and statements of Ayatollah Khomeini, who always emphasized and practiced the respect and protection of Jews and Judaism."

In March 2006, several members of a Neturei Karta's faction visited Iran, where they met with Iranian leaders, including the vice-president, and praised Ahmadinejad for calling for the "Zionist regime" occupying Jerusalem to vanish from the pages of time. The spokesmen commented that they shared Ahmadinejad's aspiration for "a disintegration of the Israeli government". In an interview with Iranian television reporters, Rabbi Weiss remarked: "The Zionists use the Holocaust issue to their benefit. We, Jews who perished in the Holocaust, do not use it to advance our interests. We stress that there are hundreds of thousands Jews around the world who identify with our opposition to the Zionist ideology and who feel that Zionism is not Jewish, but a political agenda. ... What we want is not a withdrawal to the '67 borders, but to everything included in it, so the country can go back to the Palestinians and we could live with them ...".

Iranian conference on Holocaust denial in Tehran
In December 2006, members of Neturei Karta, including Yisroel Dovid Weiss, attended the International Conference to Review the Global Vision of the Holocaust, a controversial conference held in Tehran, Iran that attracted a number of high-profile Holocaust deniers.

In his speech, Weiss explained that the occurrence of the Nazi Holocaust was irrefutable and spoke about the murder of his own grandparents at Auschwitz, but claimed that Zionists had "collaborated with the Nazis" and "thwarted...efforts to save...Jews" and expressed solidarity with the Iranian position of anti-Zionism. Yonah Metzger, the Chief Ashkenazi Rabbi of Israel, immediately called for those who went to Tehran to be put into 'cherem', a form of ex-communication. Subsequently, the Satmar Hassidism court called on Jews "to keep away from them and condemn their actions".

On 21 December, the Edah HaChareidis rabbinical council of Jerusalem also released a statement calling on the public to distance itself from those who went to Iran. The Edah's statement followed, in major lines, the Satmar statement released a few days earlier. In January 2007, a group of protesters stood outside the Neturei Karta synagogue in Monsey, New York, demanding that they leave Monsey and move to Iran. Neturei Karta and their supporters from Monsey's Orthodox community responded with a counter-protest.

2008 Mumbai attacks
One of the targets of the 2008 Mumbai attacks was the Nariman House, which was operated by the Jewish Chabad movement. Neturei Karta subsequently issued a leaflet criticising the Chabad movement for its relations with "the filthy, deplorable traitors – the cursed Zionists that are your friends." It added that the Chabad movement has been imbued with "false national sentiment" and criticised the organisation for allowing all Jews to stay in its centres, without differentiating "between good and evil, right and wrong, pure and impure, a Jew and a person who joins another religion, a believer and a heretic." The leaflet also criticised the invitation of Israeli state officials to the funerals of the victims, claiming that they "uttered words of heresy and blasphemy." The leaflet concluded that "the road [Chabad] have taken is the road of death and it leads to doom, assimilation and the uprooting of the Torah."

Sikrikim
A radical breakaway faction called Sikrikim is based in Israel, mainly in Jerusalem and Beit Shemesh. The group's engagement in acts of vandalism, "mafia-like intimidation" and violent protests caused several people, including authority figures, to push for officially labeling them as a terrorist group, along with Neturei Karta.

title: Neturei Karta


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Talk:Neturei Karta/Archive 1

View of the Jewish community
Much of the Jewish community recognizes the Neturei Karta as being anti-semetic. RK

And here we go again... right there in the first line the ubiquitious equation antizionism = antisemitism. If anybody can not per definitionem be antisemite then it is a semite.

 * While I agree that some members of the Jewish community have labelled Neturei Karta antisemitic, in many instances it was part of the highly charged rhetoric that often infuses internal Jewish debate. Furthermore, even Neturei Karta recognizes that Jews have a right to statehood. The debate is when and how such a state should come into being and the precise nature of the state once it does (see Va-Yoel Moshe for instance, which clarified the Satmar hasidic position on Zionism). Furthermore, they do not deny that other Jews are not Jews: they claim that their behavior is heretical. Satmar and Neturei Karta would certainly respond differently to a Reform Jew and a Christian--one is a heretic and the other is a Gentile, so one must keep kosher, not work on Shabbat, etc., while the other has no such obligation. Danny

Meir Kahane, a Zionist extremist, wanted to reintroduce the ban on sexual relations between Jews and non-Jews, although for reasons of anti-Gentilism not anti-Semitism.

RK responds: the Neturei Karta [teach] hateful things about all Jews. They teach that all Jews are literally releasing demonic forces within the land of Israel, and are therefore on the side of evil incarnate, and that they thus deserved the be slaughtered by the Nazis.

 * Since they are Jews, does it follow they teach these things about themselves? -- Simon J Kissane

 * No, they don't teach hatred of themselves - but they DO teach hatred of all other Jews in the world. RK

 * They are nice, peaceful people. They believe that they will save the Jewish people and end the conflict between Jewish people and the rest of the world.  I know them personally.  They are well-meaning and misguided.  They are definitely not antisemitic.  They do not teach that Jews are demonic forces within the Land of Israel.  Most of them live in the Land of Israel.  They merely believe that there should not be a state before the Messiah, which is the view of most Orthodox Jews.  The only thing extreme about them is their alliance with the PLO.  They actually believe that the PLO is not anti-semitic, but only anti-zionist, and that the PLO will allow Jews to live peacefully in the Holy Land if the zionists give up control.  However, most Jewish groups, including most anti-zionist orthodox groups, do not believe that the PLO will allow Jews to live peacefully in the Holy Land, and therefore do not join with them.  This is the only difference between mainstream orthodoxy and the Neturei Karta.  They do not teach that Jews deserved to be slaughtered by the Nazis.  They teach that the Zionists collaborated with the Nazis because they believed that the world would give the Zionists a State out of pity for antisemitism.  This is indeed true.

Even mainstream Orthodox Jews from the rabbinical Council of America have now denounced the Neturei Karta as antisemitic. RK Orthodox rabbi denounces Neturei Karta as anti-Semitic

 * As I see Neturei Karta, they are an extremely marginal segment of the Jewish public, both from the point of view of sheer numbers and that of their social status in the general Jewish community. --Uriyan

On a more ironic note dear chosen... now you know how we feel about Nestbeschmutzer ("those who soil the nest")

'''Even if true -- so what? This is a page for discussion of an article about NK, not a forum for spewing at them.'''

Numbers
Hi Aloha. I was just wondering if you meant five or fifty thousand in the article. Also, what is your source for the number? Danny

Aloha had posted 50.000, Danny changed it to 5.000. What is the number?

The next part was also taken out, which should be shown, especially in light of todays goings on and the previous talk, which seems to try to make them into a hate group, which they specifically reject.

Though they number just some 50000, their vociferous attacks against Zionism and Israel as a secular state have earned them considerable attention. They instead argue that the true Israel can only be reestablished with the coming of the Messiah. ''The Neturei Karta website shows Israeli police clobbering the Torah-True Neturei Karta. They stand for the rights of the Palestinians and have good relations with the PLO and other Palestinian and Muslim organizations. Nowhere on their website does it state, that they hate Jews or anyone else. They state that they are against the (militant) Zionists violence, against them supressing Palestinians and against the Zionists wars including the 1933 war-declaration then and the possibility of all-out war now.''

Their website seems to say something to the effect of 100.000 followers? user:H.J.

 * user:H.J., as the person who wrote the first draft of this article I do know a little about the subject. In fact, I did not look at the website when writing the article--I based it on my own independent research on the phenomenon of Neturei Karta, my close personal interactions with members of the community, and my readings and interpretations of their own texts and the texts of sociologists and anthropologists who studied them.

 * To clarify some of the points you bring up: a website is hardly an informative account of a group. Anybody can put up a website and say whatever they want about anything, including themselves. It is an interesting source of information, no doubt, but the Internet per se is not always a reliable source. As regards Neturei Karta, I have a lot of problems with the website. For one, it is based in America, when the overwhelming majority of genuine Neturei Karta members live in Jerusalem. Then, of course, the vast majority of members of Neturei Karta would not own a computer, since this would bring them into contact with the outside world, and that is something they shun. The numbers are based on statistics from the Municipality of Jerusalem to which I have had formal access over the past few years. There are other groups which identify with Neturei Karta, but they are not Neturei Karta (Karta is an Aramaic term for "the city", meaning Jerusalem). Other anti-Zionist ultra-Orthodox groups such as Satmar are not Neturei Karta.

 * I removed the section beginning with "The Neturei Karta website shows ... " Yes it does. Do you know why they were "clobbered"? Because they were throwing rocks and bottles at cars driving on a highway in Jerusalem on the Sabbath. They wanted the highway to be closed for the Sabbath. An ambulance carrying a heart attack victim was hit with one of their rocks. How do I know this? I was there. Despite what the website implies, they were not "clobbered" because they are anti-Zionist. For the most part, the Israeli government leaves them alone. They barely even collect taxes from them. As for hating Jews, if you will look in the record of this discussion, I actually rejected the notion that they were anti-Semitic. I wrote this article to offer a fair presentation of their views, even though personally I may not share them.

 * As for the "Zionist declaration of war," I have spoken with many Neturei Karta about many issues, including their attitudes toward Zionists, the Holocaust, and Nazism. Not one Neturei Karta member will tell you that the Jews or the Zionists initiated or sparked World War II. They do not even say that on their website. They do claim that Zionist actions made things worse for the Jews, and they do claim that the Holocaust was Divine retribution for the secular lifestyles of the Zionists. I will not get into a debate here about the way God works (if at all). I would like to examine their claim, which you seem to support. Looking at their website, which you cite, they give examples of how the Zionists made things worse. Hitler wanted to deport all the Jews from Europe to Mauritius (sounds like ethnic cleansing to me). The Zionists opposed it and they should have said yes, because in Neturei Karta's philosophy, Jews should be subservient to Gentiles until the coming of the Messiah. Now lets plug the statement into your assertion here and in the mailing list that the Holocaust was largely caused because some Jews (the Zionists) refused to be ethnically cleansed. Sorry, but that is anti-Semitic, and I do not use that term lightly. If I were to say that the German residents of Prussia were justly killed after World War II because they did not want to be expelled from Prussia, you could rightfully call me racist. How is the case of Jews in Europe any different.

 * An interesting anecdote is that Ruth Blau, the widow of the late leader of Neturei Karta, Rabbi Amram Blau, is a French Catholic convert to Judaism. She met her husband when she part of the French underground, helping to smuggle Jews out of Europe during the Nazi reign of terror. She would never tell you that the Jews were responsible for the Holocaust, even if she would say that the Holocaust was God's retribution for the sins of some Jews, including the Zionists.

 * Finally, user:H.J., like everyone has already said: Examine your sources, examine your citations. Not every website is historically accurate. Not every historical claim has basis. I've avoided getting into this debate until now, but Helga, please realize that there are other people out there whose professional and academic fields do encompass your own interests. We also know our stuff, so if you don't want to get into vociferous arguments, please make sure your facts and interpretations are valid. Danny

--- Danny I appreciate all your information. Believe me, I did/do not want to get into this either. I do know that there are a lot more Jewish people opposed to the radical violence perpetuated by the current situation. I do know that a Lady Ambassador (name?) came from Israel was on an emergency trip and on Ted Koppel's Night Line. She warned about the militant brutal force and worse put upon by a rivaling faction against other Jews. There are ladies or grandmothers in grey (or black),opposing, with Israeli soldiers attending. There is a lot more going on, than what the official version wants you to believe. I do not wish harm on any one or any one group. Therefore I have this feeling, that getting previous happenings out in the open, can somehow make a difference. Now everyone wants to make this 1933 Declaration of War out to be a 'minor little none-issue', not worse mentioning. But when you read the wiki or any other article that says, "the Nazi's forbade Germans to buy from Jewish stores", then it makes a lot more sense to say 'why', and the 'why' is the Decleration of War. Another factor not readily mentioned, is the Deal between Germany and Jewish people (Zionists), who since before 1900 already moved to Palestine and who continued to do so under the Nazi dictatorship. They took a lot of money out of Germany and started building the Jewish State, (some program named Havala? or something like this). I would not argue about any of the loud arguments, because I do not know enough details on this. Therefore I ask questions. Which brings me to the question on the numbers again. I guess until we know, we should just leave the numbers off alltogether? user:H.J.

 * user:H.J., your ramblings here show that you have no idea what you are talking about, and I am being very polite in saying that. Personally, I find it insulting that you insinuate that I am a victim of some "official version" and not "the truth." Unlike you, I actually do know something about the topics mentioned here. For your information, we were talking about Neturei Karta, a reactionary group of a few thousand followers that opposes the state of Israel on principle, believing that Jews should be subservient to Gentiles until the Messiah comes. That is not some interpretation. That is what they say in their internal texts. I have read those texts. Women in Black is a grassroots organization of Israeli women opposed to the occupation of the West Bank. Yes, many Israelis are disturbed by the violence in Israeli society. I am also deeply concerned about the violence in Israeli society. This has little to do with Neturei Karta. It has to do with the Occupation. Period. Hitler and the Nazis did not forbid Germans to buy from Jews because of the so-called "Declaration of War." That is asinine. Are you ignoring Mein Kampf? Are you ignoring the Nazi campaign platform prior to Hitler coming to power? Are you ignoring Hitler's speeches and writings. We have records of all of them. We even have the records of Hitler's first public appearance at the German Worker's Party. (I have a copy in my office, if you'd like.) It was an anti-Semitic diatribe, plain and simple. It was also before any Nazi was elected to the Reichstag. Jews did not have any deal with the German government to move to Palestine. They fled Germany because of rampant anti-Semitism. As for your dates, political Zionism was founded in 1896. Herzl, the founder of the movement, negotiated unsuccessfully with the Kaiser to get a German protectorate in the region so that Jews could settle there. Until the 1930s, Jewish immigrants to Palestine came from Russia, not Germany. As for taking money out of Germany, they were fleeing for their lives. Some managed to take money out. Most did not. Most could not. It was illegal. Many spent all their money paying bribes to officials to get their children to England. It was called the Kindertransport. I am glad you admit you don't know much about this topic. It so happens that I do. As for the number of Neturei Karta members, at least you admit that you do not know it. Once again, I have studied this issue. I do have reasons for the numbers I give, and not just some stupid website. If you don't know the subject matter, don't writre about it. Better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove it beyond a doubt. A very irate Danny

Once again, we are playing the numbers game. Okay, here is some information for all of you. Neturei karta refers to a very specific group of anti-Zionist Jews. There are many groups of anti-Zionist Jews and they are just one of them. What makes them special is a) they are particularly vociferous; and b) they live in Jerusalem and in Jerusalem only. They have lived there for as many as ten generations, and are descended of a particular group of Hungarian Jews that immigrated there long before the Zionist waves of immigration, which began in 1882. Other groups may have adopted the philosophies of Neturei Karta, but they are still not Neturei Karta. For example, the Satmar hasidic group is also vociferously anti-Zionist for the same religious reasons. They number about 100,000. They are still not Neturei Karta though. Oh, and for the various websites--no self-respecting member of Neturei Karta would own a computer, never mind surf the web. Danny 01:28 Feb 12, 2003 (UTC)

 * Yes, but they do like their views to be disseminated and represented without "distortion". A representative speaking on the BBC two weeks ago never hesitated to state his group's website address... They probably have internet companies doing the page design & content management. JFW | T@lk  12:43, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Fatah Funds
re: Neturei Karta has, in the recent past, accepted funds from Palestinian organizations, including Fatah. now deleted, "such a claim is unacceptable without a solid citation) "

 * Arafat transferred funds to Neturei Karta
 * by IMRA
 * Rabbi Moshe Hirsch, known as the "Foreign Minister" of Neturei Karta, has never hidden the fact that he prefers a Palestinian state in place of Israel - the Neturei Karta sect refuses to recognize the state of Israel until the coming of the Messiah. However, now it appears, from documents disclosed by the defense establishment, that Rabbi Hirsch has also been in the pay of PA Chairman Arafat himself.
 * The incriminating documents were captured in the Mukata, Arafat's headquarters, two years ago during Operation Defensive Shield. While looking for PA efforts to fund terror organizations, security officials discovered that large amounts of money had been transferred to the Neturei Karta sect in Jerusalem. The captured documents show that Hirsch received from Arafat $55 thousand just two months before Operation Defensive Shield. Among the documents are receipts with Arafat's personal signature authorizing the transfer to Rabbi Hirsch under the heading "outgoing expenses". In the same period, Arafat allocated a much lower sum to terror operatives.
 * The captured documents include letters written in English by Hirsch to Arafat. The letters are addressed as to an eminent rabbi: "Dear Abu Amar (Arafat's Arabic name), may you live a long and happy life".
 * Hirsch has never hidden his relationship with Arafat. He is a regular member of the Palestinian National Council and served in the past as Minister of Jewish Affairs in a Palestinian government. Members of the sect recently demonstrated against Israel and for Palestine at the International Court of Justice at the Hague.
 * Rabbi Hirsch's son denounced the allegations as "evil slander" and denied all financial links with Arafat.
 *

(I have no strong opinions one way or the other, I just found this, so please nobody get on my case, thanks) Gzuckier 21:28, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

However, idle musing: wouldn't we all rather have Arafat sending his money to Neturei Karta than 'terror operatives'? Gzuckier 21:28, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I did ask for a solid citation, but when I went to the IMRA site I found "news articles" like "Not a hoax: Palestinian human rights group demands prisoners be enable to run terror operations" - a blatant lie. So we aren't going to accept information derived from that mob.   Besides, expenses incurred as PNC delegate and Minister are perfectly reasonable choices for reimbursement and $55K is not a large sum of money. --Zero 04:06, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Conspiracy theory
A rotation group of anonymous users keeps on inserting a conspiracy theory that the public denouncement advertisements were placed by someone misrepresenting the signatories. However, none of these organisations later went on the record to state that they had been misrepresented. I will therefore keep on reverting this insertion until such evidence is advanced. JFW | T@lk  10:32, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Lets keep rewording

 * I think we have yet to find the perfect wording for this, one of the most crucial sentances of the article. Lets keep trying. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 5 July 2005 23:55 (UTC)

In November 1970 (and eventually rebroadcast November 21, 1971), a program on Israel radio "zarkor" broadcast a program, that had Yehuda Slutski, editor of Kitsur Toldoth ha-Haganah, Avraham Tehomi, and police officer David Tidhar discussing their foreknowledge and role in the assassination.

An even better idea is to get rid of this entire section. Why? This article is about Neturei Karta. De Haan had nothing to do with Neturei Karta it seems. At the time, he was a member or sympathizer of Agudath Yisrael. What does this have to do with Neturei Karteh [MEW - whose user name doesn't work for some reason]

TTJ has been cited on a number of anti-Semitic websites
CJCurrie twice removed this sentence, saying that "if we're going to condemn them it should be for *what they are* not for *who has cited them*" and invoking "guilt-by-association".

Note that we don't pass judgement, so "condemnation" is only in your head. Surely it is important to note _who_ cites them: scholars, theologians or... not. As for refs, do a quick web search and see for yourself. I didn't want to add those refs because I don't want to give them any publicity. ←Humus sapiens ну? 21:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

HS,

I simply meant that we should present the facts about NK and TTJ in a neutral manner without adding innuendo or guilt-by-association. If readers choose to oppose the group after reading the article, it should be for the right reasons.

For all TTJ's problems, their website does condemn anti-Semitism outright. I don't see how adding "the group has been quoted by anti-Semites" adds anything to the article, when TTJ evidently reject the message of such groups.

What do others think? CJCurrie 22:14, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I think that TTJ being used as a tool by antisemites (despite TTJ themselves ostensibly being against antisemitism), is notable. IronDuke 22:20, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I see your point, but the current edit doesn't describe the situation in quite those terms. Perhaps a rewording (as opposed to deletion) would be in order. CJCurrie 22:48, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Although it is obviously common for people to insinuate other points by falsely innocuous edits, I think in this situation we are simply staing a relevant fact and that the innuendo us just a matter of the of the pov of the reader.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 14:45, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

I should note that I've been wary about changes to this page ever since someone tried to describe the group as "Minim" a while ago (and in the opening section, no less).

I believe that certain editors (mostly anons) have been attempting to portray this group in an unfair light, and that a few sections of the current edit are very close to the line of "guilt by association". For instance, I don't see that citing comments made by Louis Farrakhan several months after he met with Neturei Karta representatives serves any useful purpose -- as much as I despise Farrakhan, I doubt these comments had anything to do with NK.

The irony is that I don't particularly like Neturei Karta either: I consider their connections to Farrakhan, Ahmedinejad, Hamas et al to be wrongheaded and highly objectionable, and I find their views on Jewish issues and human rights generally to be anti-modern and reactionary. That being said, I also think that their ideological views are the result of sincerely-held-if-misguided convictions about the nature of Jewish identity and Torah worship. Writing "the group has been cited by anti-Semitic websites" strikes me as unfair, in this light.

I'll reiterate the point that I made at the start of the discussion: if a reader is to condemn them, it should be for *what they've done*, not for *who has cited them*. CJCurrie 22:18, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

 * This is an important fact directly related the discourse relevant to the org in question. In other articles we say that X has been cited in academic journals, or scholarly publications, etc. In many other articles we note influence. We are not even saying that it is bad, or that it's their fault, etc. ←Humus sapiens ну? 23:33, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Responses: (i) Perhaps, to facilitate a compromise re:TTJ, we could also note that their website explicitly condemns anti-Semitism. (ii) I still disagree as to the inclusion of the Farrakhan quote. Any comments on this?

Btw, does anyone have conclusive proof that NK and TTJ are one and the same? CJCurrie 00:03, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

 * IMHO, Farrakhan belongs to their influences, just as other antisemites who traditionally [ab]use internal Jewish disputes to turn them against Jews - the tradition probably predating the gospels.
 * From we've seen so far, TTJ is a non-notable website and nothing more. ←Humus sapiens ну? 01:15, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't see how Farrakhan qualifies as an "influence". It's fair to mention that NK met with him and made apologies for his "dirty religion" speech ... but I don't see how drawing his subsequent comments into the article is relevant.

The bit about LF abusing internal Jewish disputes may be notable, but I don't see it having a place in this particular article. CJCurrie 02:12, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

''most CJCurie, most and not "several". Stop advancing your political agenda in every article opposing Israel''

You missed my point: I was simply arguing that the evidence provided does not support the statement. (On the larger issue, I'm not certain that most mainstream Jewish groups have even heard of TTJ.) CJCurrie 02:54, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

 * No, it was you who missed "and other fringe groups opposing the existence of Israel". For shame. ←Humus sapiens ну? 02:57, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I repeat: you missed my point.

The only evidence that you provided for your initial statement was a dubious-looking website called "True Torah Nazis". I do not take this site to be indicative of the opinions of "most mainstream Jewish organizations".

I don't doubt that most such organizations would find the beliefs of NK and TTJ objectionable, but you haven't provided much proof of actual criticisms. The article notes that other haredi groups have recently condemned NK, but there's little evidence to show that non-Haredi Orthodox groups particularly care about NK one way or the other.

This may surprise you, HS, but we actually aren't too far apart on this particular dispute. If you can show sufficient evidence for your initial claim, I'll withdraw my objections. CJCurrie 03:15, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I have removed the True Torah Jews section altogether. It doesn't belong here. See its AFD. ←Humus sapiens ну? 08:44, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Fine by me. CJCurrie 22:09, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Abu Hamza al-Masri
I have removed the reference to him as Captain Hook. It both lacked a reliable source and was not compatible with NPOV. Capitalistroadster 20:29, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * That is how he is/was widely known in Europe, in the mainstream media also. So it can be put back. Just use Google. --Daniel575 19:27, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Cleaned up the links section, archived talk page
I cleaned up the links section, which had way too many links, many of which were very biased - written by Zionists, with only the intent to bash NK untruthfully (such as what is written on www.zionism-israel.com about NK). And I archived two-thirds of the quite chaotic talk page, which contained discussions from 2004, 2005 etc. --Daniel575 19:39, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Al-Silverburg: The ADL link contains only a few sentences about NK, informatiom which can also be found elsewhere.
 * Next, I personally know who are behind 'Jews Against Zionism', and I also personally know some NK people including Rav Hirsch. 'Jews Againt Zionism.com' and Neturei Karta are not the same. They are miles apart and are not connected to each other in any way. Not noting that in the article will lead people to think that they are connected to each other. --Daniel575 23:28, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Who you personally know is irrelevant and would qualify as original research. Also the links are relevent so long as they mention the group, which they do. A reversion is in order.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 04:55, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * "Results 1 - 10 of about 98,700 for Neturei Karta. (0.25 seconds)" Shall we just put all 98,700 results here as links? Or should we perhaps use common sense to determine that links like the ADL one, which is a whole page with only a few lines on NK (information which is also found in other articles), are totally unnecessary? --Daniel575 06:26, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Funny, espcially considering the fact that there are not an excessive amount of links present.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 06:30, 14 June 2006

(UTC)
 * There was a huge amount of links available before I cleaned up some. Now, again, I again added the notice that Jewsagainstzionism.com is not a NK website. IT IS NOT. How many times do I need to tell you this? IT IS NOT A NETUREI KARTA WEBSITE. Either you leave it out completely or add the notice that it is not a Neturei Karta website. Do you need me to prove that it is not a Neturei Karta website? What do you want, a signed letter on official paperhead declaring that they are not Neturei Karta? The link is very useful and I do not want to see it removed, but to not add the notice that it is not an NK site would be misleading to those who are not very knowledgeable about the subject. 'Jewsagainstzionisn.com' is NOT Neturei Karta. The persons behind it are American Satmarrers and American Litvish. It is run from New York and it has no connection whatsoever to Neturei Karta. --Daniel575 23:21, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

23/6
1. The Jewsagainstzionism.com link is fitting because it is a similar ideology, belonging to a much bigger and almost as strongly anti-Zionist movement. It is absolutely relevant. 2. The Islamonline.net link is relevant because it gives a very good and accurate background picture of Neturei Karta, and it has even been approved and edited by someone of Neturei Karta, as you can read there. If you want to start deleting links, why not start with the danielpipes link, for example, which does not even contain 5% of the information to be found in the Islamonline.net article? --Daniel575 11:09, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Do you realize that you are writing this under your own text: "...it has no connection whatsoever to Neturei Karta"? I don't see why WP should advertise extremists with "no connection whatsoever" to the subject. Islamonline is not an encyclopedic resource on Judaic sects. See WP:RS. ←Humus sapiens ну? 21:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Daniel Pipes and the ADL are neutral links, of course? I can see the logic behind not including Jewsagainstzionism.com, which really has no link to Neturei Karta but to Satmar and certain elements in the Litvishe velt (and I must note that Neturei Karta is also litvish). I can agree on not including Jewsagainstzionism.com, but the Islamonline link is very useful and gives an excellent and positive view of NK. As opposed to the hateful articles by the ADL and Daniel Pipes. If you insist on deleting the Islamonline link, the Daniel Pipes and ADL links will go as well. --Daniel575 18:06, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Please see WP:RS, you may have problems with the ADL and Daniel Pipes, but they are considered acceptable sources. Islamonline is not.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 23:23, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The ADL and Daniel Pipes are definitely reliable sources concerning most Jewish- and Israel-related topics. However, when it comes to Neturei Karta, things lie a tiny little bit different. If you want, we will go over every point in the Islamonline article to judge its validity. Or I will take the article and put it on my own website (I run a Dutch version of 'Jews Against Zionism'). The Islamonline article is very fair, independently written without any bias and I see no reason why it should not be included. On what ground (except your own Zionist motivations [no insult meant]) do you automatically consider the ADL and Daniel Pipes to be 'reliable' sources concerning an extremely anti-Zionist movement, as opposed to Islamonline, which would be an 'unreliable' source? If you ask me, it would be the other way around! It is quite something that those ADL and Daniel Pipes articles are linked to here. I am not going to remove them, since others would place them back in a second anyway. But the Islamonline article, which I accidentally came across while googling some, is a great article and a much more useful addition than both the ADL and Daniel Pipes articles, and as such it will be placed back again. Please show me just why the Islamonline article is not reliable, and then we will talk about it. It's very easy and convenient to just disqualify any website you don't like as 'unreliable source' and delete it on that ground. I am, more or less, a member of Neturei Karta and I hereby qualify the Islamonline article as reliable. Oh and by the way, with your revert, you deleted my other edits to the article as well. --Daniel575

23:35, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Good, I agree with your current edit, greatly limiting the number of links. As I wrote above, there was a huge and disproportionate number of links here. However, the completely neutral and reliable Islamonline.net link will stay. If you agree on that, things look wonderful like this. --Daniel575 00:14, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Latest Ideology Edit
Hi CJCurrie, I'm curious what you find objectionable in the ideology section you removed. Thanks, ShalomShlomo 01:22, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

''This attitude became particularly unpopular with large numbers of the global Jewish community following the Holocaust, and was one of several major divisions between early Zionists and their adversaries, both those within the haredi world and outside it. The dispute continues to exist today, and serves as a significant dividing line among world Jewry.''

"This attitude" (ie. fatalism, defeatism) is an attitude that NK are *accused* of holding. I'm not certain that they'd agree with this assessment, from their way of looking at the world. Describing the discussion around this attitude seems to reinforce the credibility of the accusation (which is what I meant by "leading") -- although this may not have been deliberate on your part.

There's probably a better way of saying that NK are regarded as holdovers of a previous age by most groups within the Jewish community ... CJCurrie 01:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. I think I see what you're saying. I'll work on finding a more moderate tone and try to resubmit something tomorrow. ShalomShlomo 06:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Daniel Pipes, the ADL, and Zionismontheweb / Zionismisrael
These three sites are obviously not neutral sources regarding this issue. All three are right-wing Zionist organizations, automatically disqualifying them from being neutral sources regarding an extremely anti-Zionist organization. While all three are certainly very good and neutral sources regarding other aspects of the Zionist-Palestinian conflict, they cannot be called neutral sources when it comes to Neturei Karta. Furthermore, the information in the Daniel Pipes link is mentioned earlier in the article and a link is provided there to Ynetnews.com. The ADL link contains only a few sentences about Neturei Karta and contains a blatant lie (the accusation that NK would have voiced support for suicide bombings). Zionismontheweb / Zionismisrael refers to an NK-affiliated group as 'True Torah Nazis'. Yes, very neutral sources, aren't they? --Daniel575 14:34, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Sources don't have to be neutral, they just have to be reasonably encyclopedic, and not excessively propagandistic. Pipes is a well-known and respected, if somewhat controversial, academic and commentator.  He meets that qualification. Jayjg (talk) 19:27, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Pipes is a very right-wing Zionist Jew. He is not the person to write in a neutral manner about Neturei Karta. If you insist on placing that link, I insist on placing the Islamonline link. Furthermore, the Zionismontheweb link cannot be placed. It is by definition not a reliable source. Have you read the article? Do you realize that this is about a movement that considers Zionists to be agents of the Angel of Death, of the Satan itself? Do you think a website like 'Zionismontheweb' provides a neutral view of such a movement? Have you checked out the link yourself? --Daniel575 20:34, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Thinking a little more, I just came up with a better idea: we could divide the links section into 'pro-NK' and 'anti-NK' links. How does that sound? No more trouble about 'reliable source' qualifications. That would be an ideal solution. --Daniel575 20:36, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Pipes is a famous academic whose view is obviously relevant. IslamOnline, on the other hand, is a propaganda website, and nobody knows who writes articles for it. Pecher Talk 21:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Your opinion that Pipes is a "very right-wing Zionist Jew" is interesting, but hardly a fact, and irrelevant in any event. As I said above, links do not have to be neutral, they merely need to be reasonably encyclopedic, and not excessively propagandistic.  Pipes is a well-known and respected, if somewhat controversial, academic and commentator.  He meets that qualification. On the other hand www.islamonline.net does not appear to meet that qualification.  Who writes it? Who supports it? The "About us" section tells us nothing about the site that is helpful in deciding this. Jayjg (talk) 22:11, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Daniel Pipes IS most definitely a very right-wing Zionist. He is very controversial and definitely not universally acknowledged as a serious academic. As I wrote before, the Islamonline article was checked, edited and approved by rabbis of Neturei Karta. Thus, it deserves a place in any case. I now changed the links section into a clear view of anti-NK, pro-NK and neutral (ie, newspaper) links. Please evaluate, and add more links to the 'anti-NK' and 'neutral' sections. --Daniel575 22:23, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * You keep making unourced assertions. Please provide evidence for your claims, and reference the relevant policies to explain why you think links should be included or excluded. Jayjg (talk) 23:07, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I've removed the non-encyclopedic links, the blank links, and the links not about Neturei Karta. You've already violated WP:3RR a number of times, and I would hate it if you were blocked.  Please do not restore the links again, or you will undoubtedly get blocked. Jayjg (talk) 23:12, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I will add the link again. There is no reason why Daniel Pipes and 'Zionismisrael' should be considered reliable sources but Islamonline should not. Zionismisrael is a hate-sowing site which refers to one subgroup of Neturei Karta as 'True Torah Nazis' and emphasizes only alleged negative aspects of Neturei Karta. Islamonline on the other hand emphasizes the positive aspects and shows what the effect of NK's work in the Islamic world is. They spread the message of Jewish anti-Zionism as much as they can, and articles such as this one are the result of their actions. On top of that, as I said a number of times already, the article was read by, edited by and approved by someone of Neturei Karta in New York. The fact that the website itself is not neutral and not a 'reliable source' is solved by putting it under the 'pro-NK' links category. I repeat: I will not allow the Islamonline link to be removed while the Daniel Pipes and Zionismisrael links will stay in place. Either all are to be deleted, or none. If that means that I will be blocked, so be it. I am not giving in on this issue. My demand is entirely reasonable. --Daniel575 13:00, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * And who deleted the Jewsnotzionists.org link? That is also an NK website, though belonging to a different subgroup (NK consists of several divided subgroups). I see no reason why it should be deleted. --Daniel575 13:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * As has been explained multiple times, Pipes is a respected academic, Islamonline is a propaganda site of unknown provenance. Your claims that various people have read the material etc. are unverifiable and irrelevant, and while a site can be biased, it certainly cannot be a pure propaganda site.  As for the ZionismIsrael site, I removed it myself.  Also, there is no evidence that jewsnotzionists is an NK website, so it cannot stay. If you have reliable evidence that it is, bring it forward.  I've also put some pro-Neturei Karta links in the correct section. Finally, since you cannot seem to grasp policy, from now on any edit you do which contains the Islamonline article will be reverted completely, regardless of any other merits to the edit.  You must follow policy. Jayjg (talk) 17:54, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * If the article was posted on an NK website it would be fine. Meaning that I can post the article on my own website and post a link to it with my own hechsher (as I said before, I am the webmaster of the Dutch NK-affiliated website, under approval of Rabbi Moshe Hirsch). About Jewsnotzionists.org, I can tell you that they are an NK site because of the people behind it and the articles on the website. The articles on the website are of the NK type, not the Satmar type. Since there is no concurrent to NK regarding anti-Zionism of this type, it is an NK site. --Daniel575 21:43, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Do you have any real, verifiable evidence that jewsnotzionists is a NK site? I don't just mean "trust me, it is" evidence. Jayjg (talk) 22:00, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Where do you expect me to find such evidence? This isn't something you can find in a book or so. You can see it when you read the articles there. I think (no insult meant) that you are not even Jewish and not very well aware of what I am talking about when I speak about the subtile differences between Satmar and Neturei Karta. This website is obviously on the NK side. And as I mentioned before, there is no other group like NK which is as strongly anti-Zionist. If it is more extreme anti-Zionist than Satmar, that automatically makes it NK, get it? --Daniel575 22:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Right, got it (and let's use the whole page again). On http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/nyt/nyt051893.html it says "American Neturei Karta - Friends of Jerusalem". Sufficient now? Or should we also make an article American Neturei Karta? As I mentioned previously, there are several subgroups in Neturei Karta. Jewsnotzionists.org is a different group than the one running nkusa.org / netureikarta.org, though they are on speaking terms. Jewsagainstzionism.com is not affiliated with either, however. --Daniel575 22:47, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

 * That's an ad/letter to the New York Times from Neturei Karta, which is posted on the jewsnotzionists site. Please provide some real evidence. Jayjg (talk) 23:11, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Neturei Karta/Archive 1


text:
Westport

Westport is the name of several communities around the world.

Canada

 * Westport, Nova Scotia
 * Westport, Ontario
 * Westport Rideaus, local junior "B" ice hockey team
 * Westport/Rideau Lakes Airport
 * Westport, Newfoundland and Labrador

Ireland

 * Westport, County Mayo
 * Westport House
 * Westport railway station, Mayo
 * Westport United F.C., football club
 * Westport CFE – Carrowbeg College

Malaysia

 * West Port, Malaysia

New Zealand

 * Westport, New Zealand
 * Westport Airport (New Zealand)
 * Westport Rugby Football Club

United Kingdom

 * Westport, Somerset
 * Westport Canal
 * Westport, Wiltshire

United States

 * Westport, California
 * Westport, Connecticut
 * Westport Country Playhouse, a theatre
 * Westport (Metro-North station)
 * Westport Bank and Trust Company, a historic place
 * Westport Public Library
 * Westport, Indiana
 * Westport Township, Dickinson County, Iowa
 * Westport, Kentucky, in Oldham Co.
 * Westport High School (Kentucky), in Louisville, named for the Westport Road
 * Westport Island, Maine
 * Westport Community Church
 * Westport, Baltimore, Maryland
 * Westport (Baltimore Light Rail station)
 * Westport, Massachusetts
 * Westport High School (Massachusetts)
 * Westport River in Massachusetts
 * Westport Point Historic District
 * Westport Town Farm
 * Westport, Minnesota
 * Westport Township, Pope County, Minnesota
 * Westport, Kansas City, a historic district of Kansas City, Missouri
 * Westport High School (Missouri)
 * Westport Middle School
 * Westport Plaza, a resort and entertainment center in Maryland Heights, Missouri
 * Westport, New York, a town
 * Westport (CDP), New York, a hamlet in the town
 * Westport (Amtrak station)
 * Westport, North Carolina
 * Westport, Oklahoma
 * Westport, Oregon
 * Westport, Pennsylvania
 * Westport, South Dakota
 * Westport, Tennessee
 * Westport, Washington
 * Westport Light State Park
 * Westport, Wisconsin
 * Westport, Richland County, Wisconsin

Other uses

 * Westport Records, a record label
 * Westport Innovations, an international company headquartered in Vancouver, Canada
 * USS Westport, the name of more than one United States Navy ship
 * SS Westport, the name of a number of merchant ships
 * CCGS Westport, a Canadian Coast Guard search and rescue vessel
 * Battle of Westport, 1864, in what is now Kansas City, Missouri

title: Westport


text:
Talk:Postmark

Backstamp
Might some information on the backstamp be included in this article? --Daniel C. Boyer

Added information about Postmark Award. Should this be on another page? --Daniel C. Boyer

This is semi-redundant with cancellation. Technically, "cancellation" should describe the "killer" part and this article the "town/date" part, but that seems like a confusing distinction for something that even specialists tend to treat as a single topic. Stan 17:02, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Mailers Permit Postmark
Should mention MPPs. --Daniel C. Boyer 17:05, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Digital Postmark
New developments regarding the digital postmark and the electronic postmark are very relevant to this entry. These technologies go beyond merely allowing people to print certified stamps on their own PC. It allows people to use email as a major communication medium at the fraction of the cost of traditional print mail and is being seriously pursued by Postal Authorities globally. I apologize for referencing ePostmarks in my prior entry, and will refrain from doing so in the future, but it is both the name of a company AND a technology that is changing the standard for authenticated email for B2C and B2B communications and transactions. This IS a type of postmark and its reference should be allowed in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by EPostmarks (talk • contribs) 09:43, 1 December 2006

Why 2 articles
I have difficulty understanding the need for this article, separate from the Article Cancellation (mail), which is much broader, with a good Bibliography, while this article seems to focus on the Anglo-saxon world. There should be a link between them, and a split in the scope. There should be a place to develop the Marcophily, it is much more than just 'the first day of issue' or other marketing tools. See Austria, but much needs to be written on old German states which have valuations of postmarks as well, including even Nachstempelungen (after 1871). Jacquesverlaeken (talk) 21:44, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Merge from Cancellation (mail)
Postmark and Cancellation (mail) are an obvious WP:CONTENTFORK produced by well-meaning editors with very different focuses, resulting in redundant articles. I suggest that the latter be merged into the former, and that the article focus primarily on the regulatory purpose of postmarks/cancellations, and put the stamp-collecting aspects of the subject into a section. The respective "History" sections should just be directly merged. I think that "postmark" is by far the more common term, while "cancellation" is ambiguous, and that present redundant article's chosen disambiguator, "(mail)", is incorrect and misleading anyway: in the stamp-collecting segment, cancellations are often pre-applied to stamps so that low-end collectors (mostly children) can obtain them for less than their postal value. Thus, these pre-applied postmarks actually do not involve "mail" at all, but are better described more generically as "postal". But there is no reason for two separate articles on the same thing, anyway, especially since quite a lot of the content in Postmark is also redundantly focused on collecting not on regulation and routing of mail and packages. Reliable sources (e.g. here) use "postmark" and "cancellation" interchangeably; the latter is simply more toward jargon.

There's even a strong element of WP:POVFORK happening here, with unsourced, bold, and dubious assertions like "A postmark shouldn't be confused with the killer which are lines, bars, etc. used to cancel a postage stamp. Neither should a postmark be confused with overprints generally, or pre-cancels (stamps that have been cancelled before the envelope or package to which they are affixed is submitted or deposited for acceptance into the mailstream, they most commonly have taken the form of a pre-printed city name on the stamp) specifically, which generally do not indicate a date." — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  11:37, 30 July 2020 (UTC)

 * Oppose: These two articles should definitely not be merged. The two articles Cancellation (mail) and Postmark currently have a lot of overlap some of which does not belong in either and should be cleaned up. Postmark should be the main article because it covers a lot more ground that cancellation does not. There are several sub-articles an in the same vein cancelation should also be a separate one. Besides which a Cancellation is a specific kind of postmark, while all postmarks are not cancellations. Much of what is currently in the cancellation article should be in the postmark article and only cancellation related information should be there so as not to confuse. Perhaps we could draft two new refined articles based on the current content of the two existing article and see how that works out. ww2censor (talk) 09:17, 1 October 2020 (UTC)

 * Oppose: At first I was thinking that the distinction is real but not separate-article-worthy, but after re-reading the articles, I think there is enough unique material to justify two. The lede needs to sharpen up the distinction a bit, with more examples of "A but not B" and "B but not A", since the conflation is more a function of some post offices in some eras trying to get a single marking to do two jobs at once, rather than some kind of fundamental synonymy. Since there are dueling authorities, it's probably worthwhile to quote more of them. Stan (talk) 16:45, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

Cancellation needs its Own Page for differentiation and cross referencing

 * I believe Cancellation (mail) should have its own page, because of the Pictorial Cancellations which USPS uses to commemorate special events. The pictorial canncellation is a symbolic function that not only cancels the stamp, but also recognises a significant event. .  I will add more to this later.  User talk:Karen Lile Special:Contributions/Karen Lile ~ 21:10, September 12, 2020 Karen Lile

 * In the United States, the word cancellation is distinctly different than postmark, because it is used in contracts between Art Directors and the United States Postal Service for significant Postal Cancellations to commemorate important events that are of symbolic importance to the city they are issued in. The creation of a special cancellation is a significant happening within USPS, especially now, that the decisions are made on a regional level.  For me, as a creator of wiki articles about Special Postal Cancellations, it helps to have a page that I can reference with the word Cancellation (mail) in it, so that it flows in the sentence, and so that people unfamiliar with the symbolic and ceremonial role of the Special Postal Cancellation and its ceremony, can find out quickly what it means, in the bigger context.  I am only knowledgeable about USPS postal history and usage.  I realize that it may be different in other countries.  But this is the reason why I would not recommend a merger.n User talk:Karen Lile Special:Contributions/Karen Lile ~ 17:23, 29 Sept 2020 Karen Lile

 * That's a very narrow and US-centric reason for keeping a separate cancellation article. These articles are world-views of the broad topics and should reflect that world-view and not because one current single country's commemorative cancellations exist. Besides which need to be aware of your conflict of interest which makes you biased but you have already been warned about that on your talk page. ww2censor (talk) 09:25, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
 * I accept your note about the conflict of interest related to the United States, because I am not only a historian, but a participant. As requested, I will not mention my own areas of personal expertise, and I apologize if I have caused any offense.  My error was due to a lack of knowledge of the wikipedia rules in this regard.   Setting aside the USA, I am also aware of postal cancellations that are commemorative of events in Japan, Peru and England as well.   Others may have knowledge of other countries as well that participate in this tradition, as it is not unique to the USA.  The special and pictorial cancellations are a special category of postmark that serves a symbolic and recognition purpose, not just a purpose to cancel mail.  I assume this is common knowledge by experts in this area.

But, as long as there is a cancellation (mail) category that is well delineated and easy to find in Wikipedia. I could see it being done within one page or as a separate page. There is more than one way to do this.

I do have a question though. Isn't it helpful to create a subdivision (separate page) when a subject is extensive? There is so much more that could be written about cancellations that could reflect the world perspective- 00:48 PDT 21 Nov 2020 Karen Lile — Preceding unsigned comment added by Karen Lile (talk • contribs) 09:00, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

 * I think we're generally in agreement on all that. My intuition is that a single article on cancellations is about right for encyclopedia-level detail, even with material on all countries for which there is something significant to say (I note that featured articles are often quite long), with maybe a few extra articles for specialized subjects, a la fancy cancel. Stan (talk) 20:54, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Postmark


text:
User:Tempel

I am a nerd and software developer. My qualities and experiences are in defining and analysing specifications, mainly related to the workings of file systems and, to some extent, programming languages.

I have written formatting and reading software for file systems such as Apple DOS 3.3, FAT, HFS, HFS+, ISO 9660 and UDF.

Specific projects I've worked on (I mean as an engineer, not just as an editor on the wiki pages):
 * OSTA: specification of UDF 2.0.
 * DirectCD for Mac OS 7-9
 * Joliet Volume Access, which is a file system for Mac OS 7-9 to read ISO 9660 / Joliet / Rock Ridge CD-ROMs.
 * Toast for Mac OS

My personal web site: http://www.tempel.org/

title: User:Tempel


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Discounting

In finance, discounting is a mechanism in which a debtor obtains the right to delay payments to a creditor, for a defined period of time, in exchange for a charge or fee. Essentially, the party that owes money in the present purchases the right to delay the payment until some future date. This transaction is based on the fact that most people prefer current interest to delayed interest because of mortality effects, impatience effects, and salience effects. The discount, or charge, is the difference between the original amount owed in the present and the amount that has to be paid in the future to settle the debt.

The discount is usually associated with a discount rate, which is also called the discount yield. The discount yield is the proportional share of the initial amount owed (initial liability) that must be paid to delay payment for 1 year.

$$ \text{Discount yield} = \frac{\text{Charge to delay payment for 1 year}}{\text{debt liability} } $$

Since a person can earn a return on money invested over some period of time, most economic and financial models assume the discount yield is the same as the rate of return the person could receive by investing this money elsewhere (in assets of similar risk) over the given period of time covered by the delay in payment. The concept is associated with the opportunity cost of not having use of the money for the period of time covered by the delay in payment. The relationship between the discount yield and the rate of return on other financial assets is usually discussed in economic and financial theories involving the inter-relation between various market prices, and the achievement of Pareto optimality through the operations in the capitalistic price mechanism, as well as in the discussion of the efficient (financial) market hypothesis. The person delaying the payment of the current liability is essentially compensating the person to whom he/she owes money for the lost revenue that could be earned from an investment during the time period covered by the delay in payment. Accordingly, it is the relevant "discount yield" that determines the "discount", and not the other way around.

As indicated, the rate of return is usually calculated in accordance to an annual return on investment. Since an investor earns a return on the original principal amount of the investment as well as on any prior period investment income, investment earnings are "compounded" as time advances. Therefore, considering the fact that the "discount" must match the benefits obtained from a similar investment asset, the "discount yield" must be used within the same compounding mechanism to negotiate an increase in the size of the "discount" whenever the time period of the payment is delayed or extended. The "discount rate" is the rate at which the "discount" must grow as the delay in payment is extended. This fact is directly tied into the time value of money and its calculations. The "time value of money" indicates there is a difference between the "future value" of a payment and the "present value" of the same payment. The rate of return on investment should be the dominant factor in evaluating the market's assessment of the difference between the future value and the present value of a payment; and it is the market's assessment that counts the most. Therefore, the "discount yield", which is predetermined by a related return on investment that is found in the different markets in the financial sector, is what is used within the time-value-of-money calculations to determine the "discount" required to delay payment of a financial liability for a given period of time.

Basic calculation
If we consider the value of the original payment presently due to be P, and the debtor wants to delay the payment for t years, then a market rate of return denoted r on a similar investment asset means the future value of P is $$P(1 + r)^t$$, and the discount can be calculated as

 * $$\text{Discount} = P(1+r)^t-P.$$

We wish to calculate the present value, also known as the "discounted value" of a payment. Note that a payment made in the future is worth less than the same payment made today which could immediately be deposited into a bank account and earn interest, or invest in other assets. Hence we must discount future payments. Consider a payment F that is to be made t years in the future, we calculate the present value as

 * $$P=\frac{F}{(1+r)^t}$$

Suppose that we wanted to find the present value, denoted PV of $100 that will be received in five years time. If the interest rate r is 12% per year then

 * $${\rm PV}=\frac{\$100}{(1+0.12)^5}=\$56.74.$$

Discount rate
The discount rate which is used in financial calculations is usually chosen to be equal to the cost of capital. The cost of capital, in a financial market equilibrium, will be the same as the market rate of return on the financial asset mixture the firm uses to finance capital investment. Some adjustment may be made to the discount rate to take account of risks associated with uncertain cash flows, with other developments.

The discount rates typically applied to different types of companies show significant differences:

 * Start-ups seeking money: 50–100%
 * Early start-ups: 40–60%
 * Late start-ups: 30–50%
 * Mature companies: 10–25%

The higher discount rate for start-ups reflects the various disadvantages they face, compared to established companies:

 * Reduced marketability of ownerships because stocks are not traded publicly
 * Small number of investors willing to invest
 * High risks associated with start-ups
 * Overly optimistic forecasts by enthusiastic founders

One method that looks into a correct discount rate is the capital asset pricing model. This model takes into account three variables that make up the discount rate:

1. Risk free rate: The percentage of return generated by investing in risk free securities such as government bonds.

2. Beta: The measurement of how a company's stock price reacts to a change in the market. A beta higher than 1 means that a change in share price is exaggerated compared to the rest of shares in the same market. A beta less than 1 means that the share is stable and not very responsive to changes in the market. Less than 0 means that a share is moving in the opposite direction from the rest of the shares in the same market.

3. Equity market risk premium: The return on investment that investors require above the risk free rate.

 * Discount rate = (risk free rate) + beta * (equity market risk premium)

Discount factor
The discount factor, DF(T), is the factor by which a future cash flow must be multiplied in order to obtain the present value. For a zero-rate (also called spot rate) r, taken from a yield curve, and a time to cash flow T (in years), the discount factor is:

 * $$ DF(T) = \frac{1}{(1+rT)}. $$

In the case where the only discount rate one has is not a zero-rate (neither taken from a zero-coupon bond nor converted from a swap rate to a zero-rate through bootstrapping) but an annually-compounded rate (for example if the benchmark is a US Treasury bond with annual coupons) and one only has its yield to maturity, one would use an annually-compounded discount factor:

 * $$ DF(T) = \frac{1}{(1+r)^T}. $$

However, when operating in a bank, where the amount the bank can lend (and therefore get interest) is linked to the value of its assets (including accrued interest), traders usually use daily compounding to discount cash flows. Indeed, even if the interest of the bonds it holds (for example) is paid semi-annually, the value of its book of bond will increase daily, thanks to accrued interest being accounted for, and therefore the bank will be able to re-invest these daily accrued interest (by lending additional money or buying more financial products). In that case, the discount factor is then (if the usual money market day count convention for the currency is ACT/360, in case of currencies such as United States dollar, euro, Japanese yen), with r the zero-rate and T the time to cash flow in years:

 * $$ DF(T) = \frac{1}{( 1 + \frac{r}{360} )^{ 360T } } $$

or, in case the market convention for the currency being discounted is ACT/365 (AUD, CAD, GBP):

 * $$ DF(T) = \frac{1}{( 1 + \frac{r}{365} )^{ 365T } }. $$

Sometimes, for manual calculation, the continuously-compounded hypothesis is a close-enough approximation of the daily-compounding hypothesis, and makes calculation easier (even though its application is limited to instruments such as financial derivatives). In that case, the discount factor is:

 * $$ DF(T) = e^{-rT}. \,$$

Other discounts
For discounts in marketing, see discounts and allowances, sales promotion, and pricing. The article on discounted cash flow provides an example about discounting and risks in real estate investments.

title: Discounting


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Cash

In economics, cash is money in the physical form of currency, such as banknotes and coins.

In bookkeeping and financial accounting, cash is current assets comprising currency or currency equivalents that can be accessed immediately or near-immediately (as in the case of money market accounts). Cash is seen either as a reserve for payments, in case of a structural or incidental negative cash flow or as a way to avoid a downturn on financial markets.

Etymology
The English word cash originally meant money box, and later came to have a secondary meaning money. This secondary usage became the sole meaning in the 18th century. The word cash comes from the Middle French caisse money box, which comes from the Old Italian cassa, and ultimately from the Latin capsa box.

History
In Western Europe, after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, coins, silver jewelry and hacksilver (silver objects hacked into pieces) were for centuries the only form of money, until Venetian merchants started using silver bars for large transactions in the early Middle Ages. In a separate development, Venetian merchants started using paper bills, instructing their banker to make payments. Similar marked silver bars were in use in lands where the Venetian merchants had established representative offices. The Byzantine Empire and several states in the Balkan area and Kievan Rus also used marked silver bars for large payments. As the world economy developed and silver supplies increased, in particular after the colonization of South America, coins became larger and a standard coin for international payment developed from the 15th century: the Spanish and Spanish colonial coin of 8 reales. Its counterpart in gold was the Venetian ducat.

Coin types would compete for markets. By conquering foreign markets, the issuing rulers would enjoy extra income from seigniorage (the difference between the value of the coin and the value of the metal the coin was made of). Successful coin types of high nobility would be copied by lower nobility for seigniorage. Imitations were usually of a lower weight, undermining the popularity of the original. As feudal states coalesced into kingdoms, imitation of silver types abated, but gold coins, in particular, the gold ducat and the gold florin were still issued as trade coins: coins without a fixed value, going by weight. Colonial powers also sought to take away market share from Spain by issuing trade coin equivalents of silver Spanish coins, without much success.

In the early part of the 17th century, English East India Company coins were minted in England and shipped to the East. In England, over time the word cash was adopted from Sanskrit कर्ष karsa, a weight of gold or silver but akin to the Old Persian 𐎣𐎼𐏁 karsha, unit of weight (83.30 grams). East India Company coinage had both Urdu and English writing on it, to facilitate its use within the trade. In 1671, the directors of the East India Company ordered a mint to be established at Bombay, known as Bombaim. In 1677 this was sanctioned by the Crown, the coins, having received royal sanction, were struck as silver rupees; the inscription runs "The rupee of Bombaim", by the authority of Charles II.

Around that time, coins were also being produced for the East India Company at the Madras mint. The Tamil the word for money is kaasu, which may have been modified into 'cash'. Both words, 'kaasu' and 'cash', have the same meaning, unlike money box. The currency at the company's Bombay and Bengal administrative regions was the rupee. At Madras, however, the company's accounts were reckoned in pagodas, fractions, fanams, faluce and cash. This system was maintained until 1818 when the rupee was adopted as the unit of currency for the company's operations.

Paper money was first used in China during the Tang dynasty 500 years prior to it catching on in Europe. During his visit to China in the 13th century, Marco Polo was amazed to find that people traded paper money for goods rather than valuable coins made of silver or gold. He wrote extensively about how the Great Kaan used a part of the Mulberry Tree to create the paper money as well as the process with which a seal was used to impress on the paper to authenticate it. Marco Polo also talks about the chance of forgery and states that someone caught forging money would be punished with death. In the 17th century, European countries started to use paper money in part due to a shortage of precious metals, leading to less coins being produced and put into circulation. At first, it was most popular in the colonies of European powers. In the 18th century, important paper issues were made in colonies such as Ceylon and the bordering colonies of Essequibo, Demerara and Berbice. John Law did pioneering work on banknotes with the Banque Royale. The relation between money supply and inflation was still imperfectly understood and the bank went under rendering its notes worthless, because they had been over-issued. The lessons learned were applied to the Bank of England, which played a crucial role in financing the Peninsular War against French troops, hamstrung by a metallic Franc de Germinal.

The ability to create paper money made nation-states responsible for the management of inflation, through control of the money supply. It also made a direct relation between the metal of the coin and its denomination superfluous. From 1816, coins generally became token money, though some large silver and gold coins remained standard coins until 1927. The World War I saw standard coins disappear to a very large extent. Afterward, standard gold coins, mainly British sovereigns, would still be used in colonies and less developed economies and silver Maria Theresa thalers dated 1780 would be struck as trade coins for countries in East Asia until 1946 and possibly later locally.

Cash has now become a very small part of the money supply. Its remaining role is to provide a form of currency storage and payment for those who do not wish to take part in other systems, and make small payments conveniently and promptly, though this latter role is being replaced more and more frequently by electronic payment systems. Research has found that the demand for cash decreases as debit card usage increases because merchants need to make less change for customer purchases.

Cash is increasing in circulation. The amount of the United States dollar in circulation increased by 42% from 2007 to 2012. The amount of pound sterling banknotes in circulation increased by 29% from 2008 to 2013. The amount of euro in circulation increased by 34% from August 2008 to August 2013 (2% of the increase was due to the adoption of euro in Slovakia 2009 and in Estonia 2011).

Motives of cash holding
In economic theory (according Keynesian economics), the cash holding of cash (especially sight deposits) is roughly attributed to three motives:
 * Transactions motive
 * Precautionary motive
 * Speculative motive.

The transactions motive covers the business needs of economic subjects, the precautionary motive serves to hold money for liquidity purposes and to provide for crisis situations, and the speculation motive, according to John Maynard Keynes, results from the uncertainty about future interest rate developments and relates to financial investments.

In addition to this purely economic importance, there are other aspects of cash use:

In practice, there may be a combination of such motives, with the precautionary motive of preserving value and anonymous payment being decisive. Due to its unique characteristics, there is no perfect substitute for cash. Demonetisation or capital control can destabilize the economy if electronic means of payment are not readily available (e.g. 2016 Indian banknote demonetisation).
 * Anonymous payment without disclosing personal data
 * Trust to the central bank (control and publication of money creation)
 * Activation of a reward center in the brain (anticipation of reaching a specific goal)
 * Expenditure control (immediate physical payment)
 * Tradition (haptic experience, e.g. monetary donation; long-term reliability of value retention)
 * Inclusion (equal participation in economic life for all)
 * Identification (symbolic character, solidarity and group membership)
 * Educational tool for children (objective handling of assets and expenses)
 * Paying a tip as immediate recognition of good service.

Cash in circulation
Cash in circulation is characterized by strong seasonal fluctuations. Wage and salary payment dates, tax payment dates or holidays lead to statistically perceptible increases in cash in circulation, for which the credit institutions are preparing. Since cash holdings at banks do not earn interest and can also lead to security problems (bank robbery), banks usually only hold very small amounts of cash. They are therefore forced to involve the central bank in times of higher cash requirements. Therefore, the cash in circulation only remains unchanged if the banks hand over cash from their own cash holdings to their bank customers or take cash deposits from their customers into their own holdings.

The ratio of the cash in circulation in relation to the gross domestic product (cash to GDP ratio) is a good indicator of cash usage and payment behavior in an economy. In countries like the United States, increased use of debit and credit cards is increasing the amount of cash in circulation at a slower rate than in countries with a high amount of cash payments. In 2018, it ranged from 1.3% (in Sweden) to more than 21% (in Japan), 10.5% in Switzerland and 10.7% in the eurozone.

Since around 2018, exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic, cash in circulation in the eurozone has increased significantly while the share of cash payments (i.e. transactions) has decreased, known as the paradox of banknotes. Analyzes show that private households are increasingly keeping cash as a precaution against crises and that negative interest rates also play a role. This effect is also observed in many other currency areas, e.g. in the United States and Japan.

Banknote tracking
Theoretically, it is possible to track cash usage by capturing the unique serial numbers on the banknotes during transactions. To do this, the serial numbers would have to be recorded personally for all withdrawals from automated teller machines (ATM) and for each payment transaction at a retail checkout, including change. In practice, such comprehensive tracking requires a high level of technical effort and generates immense amounts of data. It would combine the disadvantages of payment methods, the somewhat cumbersome nature of cash from the offline world and the lack of anonymity of electronic money from the online world. In addition, in most countries, personal tracking of payment transactions is not permitted for the reasons of information privacy.

There are the following exceptions in cash applications:
 * Registration of ransom money for blackmail (e.g. for the Oetker kidnapping )
 * Macroeconomic studies of cash flows through the central bank
 * Statistical recording of the lifespan of banknotes by the central bank
 * Tracking the (location-based) migration of individual banknotes using EuroBillTracker for euro banknotes, Where's George? for US dollars and Where's Willy? for Canadian dollars as a hobby
 * Use of individual banknotes for sharing messages with recipients using the mobile app smill.

Since 2016, the People's Bank of China has requested the recording of banknotes issued and deposited at ATMs and bank counters, arguing that counterfeit money will be prosecuted. However, the serial number is not a reliable indicator, because counterfeit banknotes mostly use serial numbers from real banknotes in circulation. In addition, damaged or scribbled banknotes may cause reading errors. With Directive ECB/2010/14, the European Central Bank (ECB) therefore requires to check the authenticity of deposited and withdrawn banknotes at bank counters and ATMs using tested devices and to trace the origin of suspected counterfeit banknotes to the account holder and physically seize it.

Cashless payments
Cashless society can be defined as one in which all financial transactions are handled through "digital" forms (debit and credit cards) in preference to cash (physical banknotes and coins). Cashless societies have been a part of history from the very beginning of human existence. Barter and other methods of exchange were used to conduct a wide variety of trade transactions during this time period.

Since the 1980s, the use of banknotes has increasingly been displaced by credit and debit cards, electronic money transfers and mobile payments, but much slower than expected. The cashless society has been predicted for more than forty years, but cash remains the most widely used payment instrument in the world and on all continents. In 17 out of 24 studied countries, cash represents more than 50% of all payment transactions, with Austria at 85%, Germany at 80%, France at 68%. The United Kingdom at 42%, Australia at 37%, United States at 32%, Sweden at 20%, and South Korea at 14% are among the countries with lower cash usage.

By the 2010s, cash was no longer the preferred method of payment in the United States. In 2016, the United States User Consumer Survey Study reported that three out of four of the participants preferred a debit or credit card payment instead of cash. Some nations have contributed to this trend, by regulating what type of transactions can be conducted with cash and setting limits on the amount of cash that can be used in a single transaction.

Cash is still the primary means of payment (and store of value) for unbanked people with a low income and helps avoiding debt traps due to uncontrolled spending of money. It supports anonymity and avoids tracking for economic or political reasons. In addition, cash is the only means for contingency planning in order to mitigate risks in case of natural disasters or failures of the technical infrastructure like a large-scale power blackout or shutdown of the communication network. Therefore, central banks and governments are increasingly driving the sufficient availability of cash. The US Federal Reserve has provided guidelines for the continuity of cash services, and the Swedish government is concerned about the consequences in abandoning cash and is considering to pass a law requiring all banks to handle cash.

Digital and virtual currencies
Digital currency is a generic term for various approaches to support secure transactions of the public or using a distributed ledger, like blockchain, as a new technology for decentralized asset management. The blockchain 1.0 era has enabled the application of virtual digital currencies in the marketplace, such as money transfer and payment systems. It considers establishing an electronic version of the national currency which is backed by the central bank as the issuer. Virtual currency is a digital representation of value that is neither issued by a central bank or a public authority, such as Bitcoin. Facebook's concept for the diem is based on a token to be backed by financial assets such as a basket of national currencies.

In 2012, Bank of Canada was considering introducing digital currency. Meanwhile, it rates digital currency a fairly complicated decision and is analyzing the pros and cons and working to determine under which conditions it may make sense to, one day, issue a digital currency. As a threat, a central bank digital currency could increase the risk of a run on the banking system.

Also in 2012, Sveriges Riksbank, the central bank of Sweden, was reported to analyze technological advances with regard to electronic money and payment methods for digital currency as an alternative to cash. In 2019, it is investigating whether Swedish krona need to be made available in electronic form, the so-called e-krona, and if so, how it would affect Swedish legislation and the Riksbank's task. It has started procuring a technical supplier to develop and test solutions for a potential future e-krona. No decisions have yet been taken on issuing an e-krona.

Costs of payment
An analysis by the Deutsche Bundesbank in 2017 found that a cash payment in retail costs an average of 24 euro cents, while payments with a girocard cost 30 cents (or often 0.3 to 0.4% of sales plus a transaction fee) and with a credit card charge one euro which is included in the sales price. This is why retailers often refuse to accept card payments below a minimum amount. Depending on the account model, there are also booking costs for the account holder with an average of 35 euro cents charged for each(!) account posting. Because of this convenient source of income, commercial banks and credit card companies favor cashless payments.

In the case of cashless payment transactions, in addition to the documentation of the payment itself, the personal details of the payer are usually linked to the data of the payee according to the Know Your Customer (KYC) principle. This enables the payment process to be precisely traced for the payer and the payee. The constant increase in digitization leads to a more detailed recording of cashless payment transactions and their evaluation for advertising and marketing campaigns. Since this digital documentation is usually more centralized than before, the potential for abuse increases. On the other hand, the cash transactions are anonymous, unless purchasing profiles are recorded with the help of loyalty programs based on customer cards, and keep the payment landscape competitive.

Austria
In August 2023, Chancellor of Austria Karl Nehammer came out in support for enshrining cash in the Austrian constitution. This came after the Freedom Party of Austria campaigned on the idea.

Switzerland
In 2023, The Swiss government supported moves to have a constitutional protection for cash. This came after a popular initiative asked for it.

Slovakia
In June 2023, The Slovakian parliament voted with the support of 111 of 150 MPs to put the right to use Cash in the Constitution of Slovakia. The amendment was proposed by the Sme Rodina party.

title: Cash


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Song Zheyuan

Sòng Zhéyuán (October 30, 1885 – April 5, 1940) was a Chinese general during the Chinese Civil War and Second Sino-Japanese War (1937–1945).

Early life and education
Born in the village of Zhaohong, northwest of the seat of Laoling County, Shandong, he was educated under his uncle from his mother's side, a teacher of a traditional Confucian private school in Yanshan County. At the age of 20 (1904) he began studying in the military institute founded by Lu Jianzhang at Beijing and had since become Lu's favorite. In 1912 the troops of Lu and Feng Yuxiang, now subordinates of Yuan Shikai, were regrouped and Feng had then been Song's superior.

Military career
In 1917, a year after being appointed the head of 1st battalion of Feng's 2nd regiment, his battalion spearheaded the removal of Zhang Xun from his imperial restoration in 1917. As part of the Guominjun he became Governor of Jehol Province in 1926. Following the defeat of the Guominjun in the Anti–Fengtian War Feng Yuxiang participated in the Northern Expedition, Sòng assumed the Chairmanship of Shaanxi province in November 1927 and in April of the same year the head of 4th division under the II Corps of the National Revolutionary Army.

Switching sides to the Kuomintang after the abortive coup d'état in 1930 of Feng against Chiang Kai-shek, his troops were designated as the 29th Army and garrisoned in southern Shanxi province where he was responsible for the frontiers of the Rehe and Chahar provinces against the Japanese in Manchukuo.

Chair of Chahar province
Song was the chairman of Chahar province when Japan invaded the provinces in the end of year 1932. Though poorly equipped compared to the better armed Japanese, Song led the 29th army to resist the aggression in a war known as the Defense of the Great Wall (熱河長城之戰). Japanese troops then entered the suburbs of Beijing and Tianjin after the predictable victory. Song was relieved from his post but reinstalled as commander after the Ho-Umezu agreement.

Later years
In the Battle of Lugou Bridge, his 29th Army bore the brunt of the Japanese Kwantung Army. His troops were halved after the defeat and chased by the Japanese along the Jinpu Railway into Shandong Province during the Beiping–Hankou Railway Operation. However Han Fuqu, chairman of the province and suspected for his clandestine Japanese liaison, forbade Song to retreat across the Yellow River, resulting in the 29th Army being shattered at Shijiazhuang in December 1937 and January 1938. Remaining forces suffered various losses against the Imperial Japanese Army and were delegated to guerrilla combat after retreating into the mountainous regions at the borders of Henan and Shanxi province in February 1938.

He soon suffered various illnesses and died at the age of 54 in Mianyang County, Sichuan province after several unsuccessful medical treatments in Guilin, Chongqing, and Chengdu.

title: Song Zheyuan