text:
Talk:C. S. Lewis

Irish nationality (Protestant unionist family background)
The lead seems incorrect.

 * Lewis said he was Irish. (https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2007-05-09/debates/267759c5-813a-4611-a1c3-884a9ebc56e3/WrittenAnswers)

 * Lewis mentions the Ulster identity and the majority of his family were Ulster protestants, but he himself identifies as Irish.

 * It is also noted that his father was an "orangeman" and "Irish unionist" which should be mentioned in the body of the text (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/oct/23/books.film)

Titus Gold (talk) 16:18, 18 April 2023 (UTC)
 * (Northern Ireland did not exist until Lewis was in his 20s)

 * Following no replies here, I've corrected the lead to Irish and also added mention of Lewis' father's unionist and Orangeman views in the childhood section. I've also added a mention of Lewis' dislike of bigotry and that he wrote about religious sectarianism in the "Irish life' section. Titus Gold (talk) 15:36, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Look, everyone hereabouts is probably just weary to death of having these same discussions over and over ad nauseam. You haven't established a consensus for a change in the lead's presentation of Lewis's nationality, and I'm going to revert that change. You're welcome to try to get others to agree with you, but no responses in five days does not constitute agreement. Deor (talk) 16:54, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * You did, at least, provide sources, which is more than can be said for most. However, we've established many times over that the standard we use here is notability. Lewis's Irish background is not something he's famous for, at least not around the world in general. As we've said multiple times in these discussions, if you can make a case that his Irish background is something he's famous for in Ireland, that would be grounds to reconsider. But I'm afraid the sources you've provided don't do that.
 * (I have to wonder: is there a way to "pin" discussions to Talk pages so they don't get archived? Then at least people might see it...)
 * —VeryRarelyStable 23:16, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * A point that's been made here several times is that when Lewis emphasized his Irishness, it was always by contrast with Englishness, not with Britishness in general. I don't think he would ever have disputed that he was a British national. Deor (talk) 23:23, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
 * The discussion above does not provide any citations, simply guesswork. If CS Lewis is noted as British, it's simply inaccurate. Citations show he was Irish. I don't think there's much to argue about to be honest. Titus Gold (talk) 01:29, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * If he himself said he was British, where are the citations for this? I haven't come across any. Titus Gold (talk) 01:35, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Here is a second source showing he himself considered himself Irish:
 * https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09670880903533409 Titus Gold (talk) 01:36, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * As has been said many times over in the discussion above and in the archives, C. S. Lewis's personal self-identification is not what's at issue here. What's at issue is that he was a British citizen who wrote for a primarily British (indeed English) audience while living in Britain and working at British universities. Other than purely personal reflections in his letters and autobiography, he barely mentions Irish society, culture, or politics. This is not a standard we've made up, it's Wikipedia policy:
 * The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases, this will be the country, region, or territory, where the person is currently a citizen, national, or permanent resident; or, if the person is notable mainly for past events, where the person was a citizen, national, or permanent resident when the person became notable...
 * Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, neither previous nationalities nor the country of birth should be mentioned in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability.
 * If you have sources showing that Lewis's Irish origin is necessary context for the works that he is notable for, now is the time to cite them. If not, we already know that Lewis self-identified as Irish, as distinct from English or Scottish; further sources rehearsing this point are irrelevant.
 * —VeryRarelyStable 01:57, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Most biographies of "British" people I have personally come across on Wikipedia will mention the demonym of the constituent nation in which they are either of or generally reside in. When it is used the context are usually either military or political, or concerning dual citizens. "English" is not a citizenship nor nationality yet is widely used, as is "Scottish", "Welsh", "Northern Irish" and "Irish" (the ethnicity). If his demonym is such an issue it should be removed or replaced with either "British-Irish", "Northern Irish" or "Belfast-born" with a note explaining this contentious issue. I am a wee bit disappointed that there is not already an explanatory note on this exact issue, especially when one considers how much this has been debated to death! UaMaol (talk) 11:30, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
 * No citations have been presented showing that he considered himself British. The facts are that he is acknowledged as being Belfast born and he considered himself Irish.
 * If his nationality is not notable, then it can simply be omitted from the lead. If a nationality is included, it should be Irish because there are reliable citations for this, which in themselves show a degree of notability. The source show that Lewis also wrote about and mentioned being Irish as is also evident in the "My Irish life" section.
 * Evidence of Irish nationality citations:
 * 1. https://hansard.parliament.uk/Lords/2007-05-09/debates/267759c5-813a-4611-a1c3-884a9ebc56e3/WrittenAnswers
 * 2. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09670880903533409
 * 3. (already cited in article) Lewis, C. S. (2004) [2000]. Hooper, Walter (ed.). The Collected Letters. Vol. 1: Family Letters, 1905–1931. New York: HarperCollins. ISBN 978-0-06-072763-5 . Titus Gold (talk) 19:25, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I can't find a place where I failed to be clear, but let's try this again. This time, I'm going to ask you to read for comprehension.
 * Here is Wikipedia's policy on what to say about nationality in article ledes. I want to stress: this is not just a suggestion, it is Wikipedia's official style guide. You can find it at WP:Nationality. I'm going to put in bold the parts that are relevant to this discussion.
 * The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases, this will be the country, region, or territory, where the person is currently a citizen, national, or permanent resident; or, if the person is notable mainly for past events, where the person was a citizen, national, or permanent resident when the person became notable...
 * Ethnicity, religion, or sexuality should generally not be in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability. Similarly, neither previous nationalities nor the country of birth should be mentioned in the lead unless relevant to the subject's notability.
 * Here, just for contrast's sake, is what it does not say. I'm going to put a strikethrough on it just to emphasize that this is not what the Manual of Style says.
 * "The opening paragraph should usually provide context for the activities that made the person notable. In most modern-day cases, this will be the country, region, or territory, where the person was born, that provided the ethnic identity that they considered themself to be, and that they recalled with fondness in their autobiography. If this is not relevant to the person's notability, no nationality should be mentioned at all. "
 * Please tell me you see the difference.
 * The nationality mentioned in the lede has to do with where the person was living and acting when they became notable. It has nothing to do with what they "considered themself" to be.
 * What this means, for our present purposes, is that – and I'm going to ask you to pay attention this time—
 * —what Lewis "considered himself" to be is immaterial.
 * Thus, citations showing that he "considered himself British" or "considered himself Irish" are irrelevant.
 * The question is whether his Irish origins are part of what make him notable. If you have citations for that, now is the time.
 * If you disagree with the Manual of Style's nationality guidelines, this is not the place to have that discussion.
 * —VeryRarelyStable 21:54, 25 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes I'm already aware of the guidelines, thanks.
 * His Irish nationality was notable and is a part of what made him notable as the three citations I have presented show.
 * There have been no citations presented showing he had a British citizenship.
 * There have been no citations presented (if he had a British citizenship) showing that a potential British citizenship was part of what made him notable. Titus Gold (talk) 16:22, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Lewis was born in Ireland, which was part of the United Kingdom at the time, and never lived anywhere other than the United Kingdom. He always had "British citizenship". What nation do you think he was a citizen of? Deor (talk) 17:49, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * citation? Titus Gold (talk) 01:18, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid you'll have to quote specifically where your cited sources demonstrate that Lewis's Irishness was part of what made him notable. I did see a convincing demonstration that Lewis personally identified as Irish; but as we have now established, that is not the issue.
 * As far as I know, Lewis's notability lies in three things: his fiction, his Christian apologetics, and his literary scholarship. None of these things derive any substantial content from his Irish identity. In his apologetics he was at pains to universalize his message; in his scholarship he studied works from most of Europe, and his magnum opus was on English literature; in his fiction he took the reader to imaginary worlds, the geographies of which show some bias towards Northern European inspirations, but never pinned down to any specific real-world location.
 * If you can find sources demonstrating that any one of these three cannot be fully understood without reference to Lewis's Irishness, or that he is notable for a fourth thing that depended on his being Irish, then you have the beginnings of a case.
 * As for "there have been no citations... showing that... British citizenship was part of what made him notable", read the Wikipedia guideline again. It does not say "Give no indication at all of nationality unless it's relevant to the person's notability," it says "State the nationality that was the context in which the person became notable, unless some previous nationality is also relevant to their notability."
 * —VeryRarelyStable 23:29, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * His Irish nationality seems to be in the context and relevant of which he became notable;
 * Citation 1:
 * His Irish background is notable in tourism in Northern Ireland, "Northern Ireland Tourist Board referred to CS Lewis as being from an Irish background"
 * Citation 2:
 * "Lewis saw himself as Irish and was seen by others as Irish.",
 * "This article, however, contends that Lewis and his writings were actually influenced by the entire island of Ireland.",
 * mentions of Hiberno-English influence in his literature,
 * "Barfield, like Tolkien, was very cognisant of the fact that Lewis was Irish",
 * "Lewis's Irish background also had a big effect on his fiction and poetry.",
 * "Lewis's secretary and literary executor Walter Hooper said that Lewis told him the Cooley Mountains near Carlingford Lough in Co. Louth were ‘the area that … most resembled Narnia’"
 * Side note: No citations for British citizenship or notability
 * Again, there do not seem to be any citations showing he was British or that a potential British citizenship was a context of his notability. He's mainly known for the series of books on Narnia. Titus Gold (talk) 01:44, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Let's go through this.
 * His Irish nationality seems to be in the context and relevant of which he became notable;
 * This sentence is ungrammatical and hard to parse, so I'm not sure quite what you mean by it, but when Lewis wrote his fiction, scholarship, and apologetics, he was a British subject residing and working in Britain for a primarily British audience. That is what the style guide means by "context for the activities that made the person notable".
 * His Irish background is notable in tourism in Northern Ireland, "Northern Ireland Tourist Board referred to CS Lewis as being from an Irish background"
 * This is your strongest case for including his Irishness in the lede – if you can provide further sources showing that C. S. Lewis tourism is a prominent feature of the Northern Irish tourism industry.
 * By contrast,
 * "Lewis saw himself as Irish and was seen by others as Irish."
 * says to me that you haven't been listening to what I or anyone else has been saying in this conversation. Whether he saw himself as Irish is irrelevant.
 * "This article, however, contends that Lewis and his writings were actually influenced by the entire island of Ireland."
 * The fact that an article needs to contend such a statement demonstrates that it is neither obvious nor universally agreed upon. Perfectly suitable for the body of the article if there's a reliable enough source. Not sufficient for the lede sentence.
 * mentions of Hiberno-English influence in his literature
 * Immaterial. One can also find clear evidence of a fascination with Ptolemaic astrology throughout Lewis's works, but that doesn't mean the lede sentence of his Wikipedia article should describe him as an astrology enthusiast.
 * "Barfield, like Tolkien, was very cognisant of the fact that Lewis was Irish"
 * Again, irrelevant.
 * "Lewis's Irish background also had a big effect on his fiction and poetry."
 * As did Ptolemaic astrology. Previously-mentioned argument applies.
 * "Lewis's secretary and literary executor Walter Hooper said that Lewis told him the Cooley Mountains near Carlingford Lough in Co. Louth were ‘the area that … most resembled Narnia’"
 * And yet, every real-world place the Narnia books visit is in England. As are the terrestrial locations in the Ransom Trilogy, the Screwtape Letters, and The Great Divorce. That's explicit within the text, which makes it a much stronger connection than something Lewis once mentioned to somebody. I don't recall any real-world location at all in The Pilgrim's Regress, and Till We Have Faces is set in an unspecified part of Europe on the fringes of the cultural influence of pre-Roman Greece.
 * Again, there do not seem to be any citations showing he was British or that a potential British citizenship was a context of his notability.
 * He was born in the United Kingdom, which means he was a British citizen. If he had been resident in what became the Republic of Ireland when it broke away, whatever happened to other Irish people's British citizenship then would also have happened to his; but since he did not in fact reside in the Republic, he remained a British citizen. As an adult he lived, wrote, studied, and worked in England. That's what's meant by "context for the activities that made him notable".
 * —VeryRarelyStable 03:06, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the quick reply.
 * Ireland was a country when CS Lewis was born so is an eligible nationality for inclusion and the guide does not exclusively say "sovereign state". (It's also worth noting by the way that Irish passports have been available on the island of Ireland since 1924 so he may well have held one.)
 * As requested; CS Lewis is also prominent in Belfast as is promoted by the Northern Ireland Tourism. https://discovernorthernireland.com/things-to-do/c-s-lewis-square-p727341
 * There are also books about Lewis in an Ireland/Irish context;
 * The Backward Glance CS Lewis and Ireland, C.S. Lewis at Home in Ireland, C.S. Lewis and the Island of His Birth, Ireland's Literature, Irish Anglican Literature and Drama.
 * Why not amend the lead to:
 * "Clive Staples Lewis FBA (29 November 1898 – 22 November 1963) was an Irish writer and British citizen, a literary scholar, and Anglican lay theologian."
 * That would be a more sensible summary that gives a more accurate context. Titus Gold (talk) 16:47, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Lewis's passport is if anything even less relevant than his self-identification. When he was producing his fiction, Christian apologetics, and literary scholarship, he was living and working in England, and his work is aimed at an English readership and draws upon English societal, cultural, and political phenomena to appeal to its readers. That is what matters for Wikipedia's purposes.
 * Your source demonstrates that there exists C. S. Lewis-related material in the Belfast tourism industry, but not that it is notable enough for inclusion in Wikipedia. Minimum standard for that is an independent source (i.e. one not beholden either to Lewis's estate or to any organization promoting Lewis-related tourism) which devotes a substantial amount of space to the subject (i.e. not just a passing mention in one sentence).
 * If (and only if) that standard is met, then it would certainly be worthy of a paragraph or two in the body of the article, and maybe even its own subsection. In the lede section, again if and only if this standard is met, it would certainly be worthy of a sentence at the end of the section, before or after the mention of his Westminster Abbey memorial. It would still not be enough to call him an "Irish writer" in the opening sentence of the article. At absolute most, if and only if the notability standard is met, we might edit the opening sentence to call him an "Irish-born British writer".
 * —VeryRarelyStable 22:26, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * I think it would be wise to recognise Lewis as an Irish writer with British citizenship because this is what the evidence says (assuming Lewis was a British citizen). The guide says "context" of notability of "country, region, or territory". The guide does not say that location itself must be notably associated with the person. Ireland would be perfectly suitable in this case.
 * However, Belfast, Northern Ireland and Ireland are certainly notably associated with CS Lewis anyway.
 * With regards to tourism and news sources, please see the following also.
 * Belfast context:, , ,
 * Northern Ireland context:, , ,
 * Ireland context:, Titus Gold (talk) 01:35, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, it's certainly looking like C. S. Lewis Square warrants a mention in the article and perhaps even a sentence in the lede section. I don't know that I'll have time to write it myself, but I certainly won't begrudge anyone else doing it. I'm afraid your link #7 undermines your case, however, by demonstrating how very many roots Lewis put down in Oxford when he lived there.
 * And I'm sorry, but this still isn't enough to call him an "Irish writer" in the first sentence. He did not write in Ireland, and the works he is notable for barely mention Ireland or Irish culture or Irish politics or the experience of being Irish in England or anything connected with Ireland. Even in his autobiography he steers away from being topical about Ireland.
 * If we do mention C. S. Lewis Square in the lede section we will certainly have to include phrasing indicating he was born in Belfast. I'm going to open the question to other editors as to whether this new information supports putting the phrase "Irish-born" or "Belfast-born" in the opening sentence. Don't get your hopes up.
 * —VeryRarelyStable 02:09, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps Irish and British would suit? Titus Gold (talk) 02:00, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I don't really see any reason not to include 'Irish' there, maybe as 'British and Irish writer' or to include 'Anglo-Irish' somewhere in the first paragraphs. British and Irish identities are not mutually exclusive. Moling Luachra (talk) 09:50, 15 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree. To many people of that period these aspects of themselves were not in conflict; people today, such as Kenneth Branagh are proud of and expound on their Irish/British identities.Halbared (talk) 14:33, 2 February 2024 (UTC)
 * To repeat my previous suggestion, "Belfast-born" with a note explaining the issue, of course with lots of sources, I think, would be the best way of getting around this. No one doubts he is from Belfast! UaMaol (talk) 10:42, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * - see Talk:Jesus - the article's talk needs a subpage (i.e., Talk:C. S. Lewis/FAQ) to make this work, I believe. May be helpful... Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 15:40, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Dog killed by car
His dog was killed by a car in 1902 in Belfast? --95.24.65.207 (talk) 14:54, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 * This would appear to be the case. I'm guessing you're dubious about the odds of a dog being struck by a motor vehicle in 1902. Based on my quick and shallow research, it looks like the first car was imported into Ireland in the late 19th century, so it was indeed possible for the dog to be struck by a vehicle, though perhaps statistically unlikely. If the story is true, that was a very unlucky dog. pillow crow 19:37, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
 * In the late Victorian era "car" was a common term for a horsed carriage that was not a professionally driven coach but driven by the rider. Had it been motorised it would have been termed "motor-car".Cloptonson (talk) 15:20, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * That's fascinating. Do you know of any sources that explain that? Or any that confirm that the dog was struck by a horse-drawn carriage and not an early motorized vehicle? Thanks. pillow crow 22:12, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't have an authoritative dictionary like the Shorter Oxford that dates the usage of words. It was anecdotal I found out what I now know. In Shrewsbury Cemetery is a gravestone of am army officer, Major Wilmsdorf Mansergh, who the epitaph says "was killed by being thrown from his car" in 1893. When I came across the headstone I thought "first Shropshire motor fatality" but when I later read the account of his death and inquest in the local newspaper of the day I learned the vehicle was horsed. Did Lewis himself leave any written reminiscences that shed more detail on the car that killed his childhood dog or its driver?Cloptonson (talk) 06:43, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I have yet to find anything from Lewis himself regarding the matter, but I did find a book called Jack's Life: The Life Story of C.S. Lewis by Douglas Gresham, a stepson of Lewis. In it he writes that the dog was run over "probably by a horse and cart as there were almost no cars in the time and place where he was a child" (the page is viewable through Google Books—the very first page of the first chapter). Of course, this doesn't answer whether "car" referred to a horse-drawn carriage (though your discovery at the cemetery would strongly imply such), but it's a good clarification of the incident, so I think I'll make an edit. Gresham also seems to imply that the dog wasn't actually owned by Lewis but rather was a neighborhood dog. pillow crow 16:48, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Editing Anglican Psaltry
C. S. Lewis' many other works are addressed, but little is said of his works that were not published. In particular, he was one of six men asked to revise the Anglican Psaltry. He did so with T. S. Eliot, who he previously resented and mocked (per his journals) but who became is friend. Eliot was the Faber & Faber editor who approved the publication of "A Grief Observed" under a pseudonym (first edition). Eliot influenced Lewis later in life, as they worked together, but is not mentioned in the article. Could that be added? CSTKing (talk) 03:15, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 April 2024
Please add additional supporting text regarding The Dark Tower: Nebula-winning Author Gene Wolfe (a practicing Catholic) also felt that "The Dark Tower" was not written by Lewis.

"GW: Oh, yes, The C. S. Lewis Hoax. With Lewis it is posthumous stuff that apparently is not Lewis at all. I was one of those people who read The Dark Tower and got very suspicious because I was familiar with Lewis and I think I am pretty good at spotting styles. ... I think I could write much better imitation C. S. Lewis than a lot of this supposedly posthumous stuff that is coming out. I could do it better than this guy does and I think practically any decent writer could do it better than this guy does, because he’s not a writer. The reason that there is not more of that than there is, is that the people who can do it would rather write under their own name and take the credit for themselves. Why should they waste their talent in forging work for a dead man?"

reference: https://gwern.net/doc/fiction/science-fiction/1992-jordan.pdf, p. 103 Mapleleiff (talk) 18:26, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 12:13, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

Edit request: The section on Lewis's Trilemma reads more as an attempt to dismiss it than to explain it. The statement that "It has been widely repeated in Christian apologetic literature but largely ignored by professional theologians and biblical scholars." is vastly over-simplified. Yes, there are scholars who dismiss it, but there are an equal number who do not, and therefore it is misleading and editorializing. It should read more that "liberal scholars dismiss it while conservative scholars often embrace it." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.192.1.132 (talk) 19:31, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Clive Staples Lewis
Did you know mr. Lewis liked to be called jack?? IHAVEDOG (talk) 15:40, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * That is covered in the second paragraph of the "Childhood" section in the article. Deor (talk) 16:45, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oh ok IHAVEDOG (talk) 15:14, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * When he was two he insisted that everyone call him Jack IHAVEDOG (talk) 16:42, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * not when he was 4 IHAVEDOG (talk) 17:29, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Source? pillow crow 20:21, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * None of your bees wax IHAVEDOG (talk) 16:22, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * it's from a book IHAVEDOG (talk) 16:26, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia talk pages are not forums, nor are they social media. If you have something to add to the article, produce your source.  If not, find somewhere else to chat about it. —VeryRarelyStable 00:14, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 June 2024
Change British to Irish nationality. He was born in Belfast pre-partition, and was extremely clear of his Irish identity. 91.125.2.180 (talk) 22:30, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 22:39, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:C. S. Lewis


text:
438

Year 438 (CDXXXVIII) was a common year starting on Saturday (link will display the full calendar) of the Julian calendar. At the time, it was known as the Year of the Consulship of Theodosius and Glabrio (or, less frequently, year 1191 Ab urbe condita). The denomination 438 for this year has been used since the early medieval period, when the Anno Domini calendar era became the prevalent method in Europe for naming years.

Byzantium

 * Emperor Theodosius II forbids the divulging of secrets of naval carpentry, probably to avoid its spread to the rising Vandal power in North Africa.
 * February 15 – The Codex Theodosianus, a collection of edicts of Roman law, is published.
 * Aelia Eudocia, wife of Theodosius II, goes on a pilgrimage to Jerusalem, bringing back with her holy relics to prove her faith.

Europe

 * The last gladiatorial fights are held in the Colosseum in Rome.
 * King Hermeric of the Suebic Kingdom of Galicia is forced to retire after a seven-year illness. He hands the government over to his son Rechila.
 * In the Gothic War (436-439) besieges Aetius over the Visigoths in the Battle of Mons Colubrarius.

Persia

 * Bahram V dies after an 18-year reign as Sassanid king of the Persian Empire. He is succeeded by his son Yazdegerd II.

Religion

 * Relics of John Chrysostom are transported to Constantinople.

Births

 * Basina, queen of Thuringia (approximate date)
 * Epiphanius, bishop of Pavia (d. 496)

Deaths

 * Bahram V, king of the Persian Empire
 * Feng Hong, last emperor of Northern Yan

title: 438


text:
Unitary authority

A unitary authority is a local authority responsible for all local government functions within its area or performing additional functions that elsewhere are usually performed by a higher level of sub-national government or the national government.

Typically unitary authorities cover towns or cities which are large enough to function independently of a council or other authority. An authority can be a unit of a county or combined authority.

Canada
In Canada, each province creates its own system of local government, so terminology varies substantially.

In certain provinces (e.g. Alberta, Nova Scotia) there is only one level of local government in that province, so no special term is used to describe the situation.

British Columbia has only one such municipality, Northern Rockies Regional Municipality, which was established in 2009.

In Ontario the term single-tier municipalities is used, for a similar concept. Their character varies, and while most function as cities with no upper level of government, some function as counties or regional municipalities with no lower municipal subdivisions below them. They exist as individual census divisions, as well as separated municipalities.

Central Europe
In Germany, kreisfreie Stadt (lit. 'circle-free city') is the equivalent term for a city with the competences of both the Gemeinde (municipality) and the Kreis (district, literally circle) administrative level. The directly elected chief executive officer of a kreisfreie Stadt is called Oberbürgermeister (literally Superior Burgomaster, in English "Chief Mayor" or "Lord Mayor"). The British counties have no directly corresponding counterpart in Germany. This German system corresponds to statutory cities in Austria and in the Czech Republic.

Denmark
Until 1 January 2007, the municipalities of Copenhagen, Frederiksberg and Bornholm were not a part of a Danish county.

France
The city of Paris works like a department council and a municipal council. Administratively at state level, it is both a department with a single departmental arrondissement (not to be confused with the 20 city districts of Paris, or arrondissements municipaux, which are local subdivisions existing in very populated municipalities, including Paris, Lyon and Marseille, with their own arrondissement councils and arrondissement mayors also elected during municipal elections), however the prefecture of Paris is split between the prefecture of police of Paris (which covers the three other surrounding departments in the first ring) and the department prefecture (which is also the region prefecture, whose competence on police does not cover the four departments of Paris and the small ring). As the department of Paris has no department council elected during departmental elections, it is not subdivided into cantons, but its 20 districts are considered equivalent.

The department councils of the two departments of Corsica and of the region merged into a unitary authority, officially a collectivité territoriale. Its area of competence covers the whole administrative region and the two administrative departments (which were kept at state level with their two prefectures and their respective subprefectures for state-managed services).

The overseas departements and regions were all proposed to merge their single departmental council (conseil départemental) coexisting with their regional council (conseil régional) on the same territory (at state level they are unified as DROM for their prefectures) into a collectivité unique. The proposal was rejected by local referendum in Guadeloupe and in Réunion, but this occurred in Martinique and French Guiana whose former departemental and regional councils were merged into a single unitary authority named assemblée, elected during departmental elections. Mayotte with its newer status of department chose to keep this designation for its unitary authority, named departmental council (no regional council was ever created), but which also has the competence of a regional council (plus a few specific competences transferred from the state like other French overseas).

The Métropole de Lyon was created as a metropole from an earlier EPCI (public establishment of intercommunal cooperation) but gained the competences of the departmental council. The departmental council of Rhône only covers the rest of the administrative department (which is still subdivided into two subprefectures, one of which includes the métropole). So the metropole is not a unitary authority, and no longer an EPCI (like other French metropoles), but it has a specific status, considered equivalent to a department council, except that its seats are elected during the municipal French elections (at the same time as its municipal councils in each member commune), and that (like departments and regions, but unlike other French EPCI's including other metropoles) it is a territorial collectivity, with legal personality and fiscal autonomy.

New Zealand
In New Zealand, a unitary authority is a territorial authority (district, city or metropolitan area) that also performs the functions of a regional council (first-level division). There are five unitary authorities, they are (with the year they were constituted): Gisborne District Council (1989), Tasman District Council (1992), Nelson City Council (1992), Marlborough District Council (1992), and Auckland Council (2010).

The Chatham Islands, located east of the South Island, have a council with its own special legislation, constituted (1995) with powers similar to those of a regional authority.

Poland
In Poland, a miasto na prawach powiatu, or shortly powiat grodzki (city with powiat rights, or urban county in short) is a, typically big, city which is also responsible for district (poviat) administrative level, being part of no other powiat (e.g. Kraków, Łódź, Wrocław, Poznań). In total, 65 cities in Poland have this status.

Taiwan
Most cities in Taiwan, in contrast to counties, have only one tier of local government. Unlike the three county-administered cities (Chiayi, Keelung, and Hsinchu), they are independent of their surrounding county. Special municipalities, with the exception of a few mountain indigenous districts within them, are also unitary.

England

In England, "unitary authorities" are those local authorities set up in accordance with the Local Government Changes for England Regulations 1994 made under powers conferred by the Local Government Act 1992 to form a single tier of local government in specified areas and which are responsible for almost all local government functions within such areas. While outwardly appearing to be similar, single-tier authorities formed using older legislation are not unitary authorities thus excluding e.g. the Council of the Isles of Scilly or any other single-tier authority formed under the older legislation and not since given the status of a unitary authority.

This is distinct from the two-tier system of local government which still exists in most of England, where local government functions are divided between county councils (the upper tier) and district or borough councils. Until 1996 two-tier systems existed in Scotland and Wales, but these have now been replaced by systems based on a single tier of local government with some functions shared between groups of adjacent authorities. A single-tier system has existed in Northern Ireland since 1973.

For many years the description of the number of tiers in UK local government arrangements has routinely ignored any current or previous bodies at the lowest level of authorities elected by the voters within their area such as parish (in England and Wales) or community councils; such bodies do not exist or have not existed in all areas.

Rest of the United Kingdom
The definitive description "unitary authority" is specific to England alone in UK legislation. Thus single-tier authorities elsewhere in the UK are not properly styled as unitary authorities; also their rights, privileges and responsibilities are not the same.

Northern Ireland

Northern Ireland is divided into eleven districts for local government purposes. In Northern Ireland local councils have no responsibility for education, road building or housing (though they do nominate members to the advisory Northern Ireland Housing Council). Their functions include waste and recycling services, leisure and community services, building control and local economic and cultural development. Since their reorganisation in 2015 councils in Northern Ireland have also taken on responsibility for planning functions. The collection of rates is handled by the Land and Property Services agency.

Scotland
Local authorities in Scotland are unitary in nature but not in name. The Local Government etc. (Scotland) Act 1994 created a single tier of local government throughout Scotland. On 1 April 1996, 32 local government areas, each with a council, replaced the previous two-tier structure, which had regional, islands and district councils. Comhairle nan Eilean Siar (formerly the Western Isles Council) uses the alternative Gaelic designation Comhairle. While the phrase "unitary authority" is not used in Scottish legislation (whether from the Scottish Parliament or the UK Parliament), the term can be encountered (used either descriptively or erroneously) in a few official publications and in (usually erroneous) use by United Kingdom government departments.

Wales
Local authorities in Wales are unitary in nature but are described by the Local Government (Wales) Act 1994 as "principal councils", and their areas as principal areas. Various other legislation (e.g. s.91(1) Environment Act 1995) includes the counties and county boroughs of Wales within their individual interpretations of the phrase "unitary authority" as an interpretive not a definitive description. In s.2 of the Act each council formed for a county is allocated the respective English and Welsh descriptions of "County Council" or "Cyngor Sir", each council formed for a County Borough is allocated the respective descriptions of "County Borough Council" or "Cyngor Bwrdeistref Sirol"; in all cases the shorter alternative forms "Council" or "Cyngor" can be used.

United States
There are several types of single-tier governments in the United States. In the states of Connecticut, Rhode Island, and much of Massachusetts, county government has been abolished, and the municipalities (known as New England towns) are the only governing tier below the state government, though the former counties still exist in the ceremonial sense. In some areas, the reverse is true; for example, Howard County, Maryland and Arlington County, Virginia, are examples of counties that, despite being densely developed, have no municipalities and are thus the only tier of general-purpose local government.

In Virginia, all municipalities with city status are, by definition, independent from any county. Three other cities across the United States are also independent of any county government: Baltimore, Maryland, St. Louis, Missouri, and Carson City, Nevada. There are also several consolidated cities where the county government and municipal government are unified. San Francisco and Philadelphia are two examples, wherein the city and county are coterminous and have one singular governing body.

The District of Columbia has had no lower tiers of government since 1871. Arlington County and Alexandria, Virginia, were returned to Virginia in 1847. The District of Columbia Organic Act of 1871 abolished all local governments including single remaining county and its two municipalities, Washington and Georgetown.

title: Unitary authority


text:
User:Kurt Jansson

leave me a message on my user talk page at the German Wikipedia / Nachricht auf meiner Benutzerdiskussionsseite in der deutschen Wikipedia hinterlassen my user page at the German Wikipedia

title: User:Kurt Jansson


text:
Talk:Somaliland

Somaliland waa dal xuduudihiisu suganyihiin, lana soo noqday xornimadiisa 1960.

Lead length
I know through previous efforts and discussion the length of the lead was greatly reduced from its previously overly lengthy state. But now I noticed the lead suffers from the reverse and is way too short to summarise the information presented within the article.

See MOS:LEADLENGTH, an article of this length should have a corresponding lead of three or four paragraphs, now there's only two. Zinderboff(talk) 12:30, 12 February 2024 (UTC)

 * The cut lead text was mostly excessive history, which should not be added back. New paragraphs should be crafted to cover politics, administration, economy, demography, and culture. CMD (talk) 13:33, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The lead consists of 5 paragraphs now. I believe this issue has been resolved already. If there are no objections, I'll remove the "lead too short" template. Whizkin (talk) 22:11, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

unsigned comment added by Gobroon (talk • contribs) 16:12, 13 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 March 2024
The image below shows the land controlled by the self-proclaimed government of Somaliland as of August 2023 as the government no longer controls the Sool, Sanaag, Ayn (Buhoodle) region of Somalia.

https://www.kormeeraha.com/2022/01/20/no-somaliland-recognition-without-sool-and-sanaag-on-board/ Waraabe12 (talk) 03:39, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

 * ✅. I've made the change on Commons, so you might need to refresh the page. Alaexis¿question? 10:14, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Refuse to accept description on SL status from reliable sources such as BBC
I added a reliable source that describes SL status, but there is a continuous attempt to refuse that by a person known as Buufin. The person reverts the change and removes the source provided and continuously tries to vandalise the page. What can we do stop that? How is it possible to remove a fact supported by a source? Shahad9900 (talk) 12:49, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

 * I've said it many times, and I'll say it again. Somaliland is no longer classified as a self-declared state because the Republic of China (Taiwan) recognizes it. Buufin (talk) 20:38, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Reliable source and up-to-date that still describes SL as self-declared was attached. The provided source is cited clearly in the text. On the other hand, you cannot provide any source that states Taiwan recognition is enough to not consider it as self-declared. On the contrary modern popular sources still shares and describes SL as self-declared. Your change also must be removed immediately following Wikipedia policy in content removal as it is inaccurate and with no citable source. We will hear from the community, but you are violating Wikipedia edit policy. Sharwa (talk) 21:19, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
 * There seems to be some disruptive editing behaviour, and unwillingness to accept cited source. I urge members of the community to interfere to build consensus on this matter Shahad9900 (talk) 19:57, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Buufin did the right thing. Jethro1945 (talk) 11:57, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Buufin (talk) 21:21, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Regarding the substance of the argument, I'm not sure that "self-declared" is necessary in the lede. Even if one source uses this wording, it doesn't mean that we should automatically adopt it. @Shahad9900 if you believe this characterisation should be added to the lede, you should demonstrate that the majority of sources (scholarly articles, books, newspapers) use this term.
 * Having said that, adding sourced information is *NOT* vandalism, and accusing someone of vandalism is against WP:CIVILITY policy and can be sanctioned. Alaexis¿question? 21:39, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Agreed it is not vandalism. It is however redundant; the lead should not have "self-declared unrecognised state" as that says the same thing twice. There is no significant emphasis difference between the two. CMD (talk) 01:53, 15 April 2024 (UTC)
 * There are multiple sources that used that terms for decades, will share it soon. Shahad9900 (talk) 07:19, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Huge discrepancy for Somaliland's land area
What is the exact land area of Somaliland? The Somaliland official government website says 137,600 km2, the official web portal of the Republic of Somaliland says 176,119 km2, our article says 177,000 km2, but Google says 284,899 km 2.

The Somaliland official government website's figure is less than 50% of Google's figure. For a small country, these are BIG differences. What happened? Which source is right? What is the exact land area of this country?

Links:

 * 1) Somaliland official government website
 * 2) Official web portal of the Republic of Somaliland
 * 3) Google search result  120.16.132.146 (talk) 00:57, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

 * De facto and de jure 48JCL TALK  00:51, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Somalia is ONE 🇸🇴
Somaliland is not an independent country, but is part of Somaliweyn.And wikipedia should delete false information that becomes part of their websites. Somaliland is not a country, but a part of Somalia and I hope Wikipedia corrects this as soon as possible!

Somali waa mid ✊ Somalia somali ba leh. Unukaleh (talk) 13:52, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

ahrfs. com
- رسالتك اليوم ♡゙♡゙ “ إذا قُمت بتغيير عاداتك ستتغير حياتك ومن الممكن ان تتغير أفكارك، إذا كان لديكم بعض العادات التي تشعرون انكم بحاجة إلى إصلاحها أعتقد أنه من الجيد ان تبذلوا جُهدكم من أجلها أنا دائمًا أشجعكم يا رفاق كونوا أقوياء! “ ♡ — جُون جونغكوك 200702! ᥫ᭡ .
 * 1) Jungkook #JJK #KOOKIE #BTS #방탄소년단 #BTSARMY #PurpleBTSMWorld #S_JK🦋 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 154.115.221.224 (talk) 07:59, 7 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Somaliland