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Talk:Interlingua

[Untitled]
Because of their length, the previous discussions on this page have been archived. If further archiving is needed, see How to archive a talk page.

Previous discussions:

 * Archive 1 (13 Apr 2001 to 20 Nov 2005)
 * Talk:Interlingua/Archive 2

It was time to archive the old discussion. --Chris 16:03, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

The page has been archived again, for all discussions up to mid March. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 03:37, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation Needed!
There has been some confusion regarding Interlingua and machine translation. The idea that one could use a naturalistic constructed language as a way to represent semantics more directly and serve as a go-between in translating from one language to another is very exciting to me personally, which is why I also click through and read a bit when I see links to articles about "Interlingua" being used in machine translation. However, I've never seen an article that actually talked about using Interlingua in this way. An "interlingua" is the term used for any such intermediary language. Such a language usually winds up looking nothing like a natural language and is usually populated with English glosses.

For this reason I am removing the bit about Interlingua being used to translate "Asian" languages from the main article, along with those two articles at the end. They are in fact completely unrelated to Interlingua.

--Cliff Jones, M.A. (Linguistics) (talk) 01:34, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Interlingua = simplified Italian
For me Interlingua is just a simplified Italian language with English grammar and some extra French words! - Zanzibar — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.0.134.105 (talk) 16:53, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

I think it's looks more like Spanish mainly because of its more traditional spelling and plurals ending with s. Tsf (talk) 17:54, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

French more spoken in Canada than in Morrocco?
I am surprised that on the map that's shown in this article, Canada (excluding Québec) is shown as having more speakers of French than, for example, Morrocco. Having lived in both countries and travelling between the two regularly, I have the feeling there are more speakers of French in Morrocco than, say, in Alberta. However, I may be wrong as I do not have any data to confirm this impression. I invite anyone who does know how to get that data to update the map should it be wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Niccoben (talk • contribs) 01:43, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I know an American woman who spent her early formative years in Morocco and can confirm that her mother tongue was indeed French. Judging by this instance, I would say that Morocco at least as as many speakers of French as Canada does percentage-wise and surely more than those outside of Francophone Canada. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.229.111.74 (talk) 06:13, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

 * I’ve removed the map. See below for French in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia. --Babelfisch (talk) 03:05, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Most Widely Spoken?
I am an intermediate Esperanto speaker, and as such I was interested in the popularity of Interlingua versus Esperanto. I did notice, however, that at the beginning of both articles, they claim to be the most widely spoken "international auxilary language" in the world. Maybe there are some nuances in the specific wording that I'm missing, but it sounds to me like a contradiction, folks. Any help? -ExNoctem 04:16, 11 August 2007 (UTC) [update: I've pasted this same thread to the Esperanto talk page]

 * There is no discrepancy. Esperanto is the most spoken logical auxiliary language (if I'm permitted to use that term) and Interlingua is the most spoken natural-seeming auxiliary language. It's similar to saying, ABC is the fastest 100cc motorbike and DEF is the fastest 200cc bike in the world.

 * Both Esperanto and Interlingua just happen to belong to different categories and both of them are leaders in their own right.

 * Posted on 15 August 2010, 17:55 Un Alien

Naturalistic
From the opening lines: "[Interlingua] is the most widely used naturalistic auxiliary language." My changing this to "... the most widely used purely naturalistic..." has been contested; but aren't more widely used languages like Esperanto and Ido partially naturalistic in that many words resemble those in national languages? --Kwekubo 01:54, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Given that no-one has expressed any contrary opinions I'll go ahead and reinsert "purely". --Kwekubo 15:22, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

This use of the word "naturalistic" doesn't conform to modern conlang standards. Naturalism refers to a language that attempts to mirror, as nearly as possible, the depth and complexity of a natural language, including its irregularities, ambiguities and peculiarities. By definition, almost all IALs are not naturalistic, and this includes Interlingua, which is nowhere close to being naturalistic. It's my opinion that references to Interlingua being naturalistic should be removed. 67.58.142.175 (talk) 08:29, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Then how do you describe the biggest difference between Interlingua and Esperanto? "Naturalistic" describes in a single convenient word the problems some people had with Esperanto, why Ido and Novial were invented, and the biggest reason some people prefer Interlingua and others Esperanto. The Esperanto-Interlingua article has an example of Esperanto's aggluntative vs Interlingua's source-based language nature; Eo derives seven words from "sano" (health) while Ia uses seven different Latinate words. The correlatives are similar: Eo forms them from a table of prefixes and suffixes; Ia uses Latinate words that have no predictable relationship to each other, they're just "the traditional words". This is what "naturalistic" sums up nicely: both Ia and Eo borrow words and derive them, but Ia prefers to borrow words (naturalistic) and Eo prefers to derive them (non-naturalistic). If you take away the word naturalistic for this, what better word is there? Sluggoster (talk)

History section migrated into its own article
I've gone ahead and migrated the history section into History of Interlingua. I've also gone ahead and attempted to remove some of the more detailed portions of the section in order to make it summary-style, although I believe it should really be rewritten. I'll try to do some more work with it, but this is just a heads-up for any regulars of the page who are interested. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 03:30, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Redirection of Romanica to Interlingua
I was just looking for a language called "Romanica" and was redirected to Interlingua. Is Romanica another name or an older form? If so, I think it should be mentioned in the article somewhere... — N-true 14:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * After a cursory Google search, it seems to me that Romanica is a separate language, so I cannot understand why it redirects here. Maybe someone with some Interlingua experience could help here? -ExNoctem 03:48, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
 * See Articles for deletion/Romanica language and Articles for deletion/Romanica --Rumping 19:32, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If anyone cares, 'Romanica' created by the basque interlinguist Josu Lavin, is a conlang that interestingly has exactly the same vocabulary as interlingua, but slightly different grammar and spelling. It only has a few speakers, and Josu Lavin now seems to have taken down the websites promoting the language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Laurentio313 (talk • contribs) 01:44, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * NOTE: There were two discussions being held of the same vein on this discussion page (one is called Romanica, the other Interlingua = Romanica?). I have deleted the comments held under Romanica and pasted/appended them to this discussion (Interlingua = Romanica?). They can be seen here below (one by User:EncycloPetey the other by User:Almafeta) -- Cavallèro Talk  18:22, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The link Romanica language redirects here, but there is no explanation for this in the article. --EncycloPetey (talk) 23:45, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Reading over the history, for that page, it appears that Romanica was a derivative of Interlingua that used a different grammar (much more romantic, with Romantic-style inflection in verbs and nouns/adjectives) but mostly the same vocabulary. The AfD for Romanica ruled that it would be appropriate for Romanica language to be redirected to the Interlingua page as one of the derivatives of Interlingua, but that change/note was never added to the Interlingua article.  Almafeta (talk) 19:35, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * There is a community of Romanica speakers, albeit small, on the web. There are also a couple or several sites. Personally, I think Romanica should not be redirected to Interlingua. It should probably be included on the list of developed constructed auxiliary languages. It is true that Josu Lavin has moved away from Romanica and has returned to Interlingua, however, he has made an impact through his creation of Romanica and it should be recognised in this enclyclopedia. -- Cavallèro Talk  18:03, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
 * NOTE: I have changed this discussion section title from 'Romanica = Interlingua?' to 'Redirection of Romanica to Interlingua'. -- Cavallèro Talk  15:51, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Reverted Deletion
70.112.188.37(talk) removed the following text:

The largest number of Interlingua words are of Latin origin and have entered Interlingua through the Romance languages. Greek and Germanic languages provide the second and third amount of words, with a minority of the vocabulary originating in Slavic and non-Western languages.

with the notation

(rm misleading passage - the origins of Interlingua words are incidental and here make the language appear much less international than it is - also, minor details should appear later in an article)

I have reverted this, on the thesis that the origins of words in any language, but particularly in a constructed language are extremely relevant to an article on that language. We certainly wouldn't want the article on the English language, for example, to have the section on word origins removed, and most people already know something about the origins of words in English. Why, then, would we want to remove references to the origins of words in a constructed language, about which most people would know nothing?

Remember, it's not our job to make the language "appear" more or less anything. Wikipedia's job is to report verifiable information.

* Septegram * Talk * Contributions * 14:55, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Modern Language
Yes get rid of all the idioms of language and create a new one, such as newspeak (-1984). -PatPeter 18:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Interlingua is an excellent language, I have seen Esperanto, and have decided thta I actually know way more interlingua, and I havent even studied it I just have a small (microscopic) understanding of spanish. it is a glorios language that i am going to try an learn. Esperanto is difficult. newspeak looks pretty good though, I like the idea. though it was desgined to look evil, it actually seems pretty good, no more cunfusion, shorter english classes, less missunderstanding, though peotry will be missing ( I hate the stuff anyways) but music will deisappear. but progress has sacrifice. (Masterxak 06:00, 16 September 2007 (UTC))
 * Don't say Esperanto is difficult when you haven't learned it yet. The vocabulary in Interlingua might be easier to recognize for you, but there's also grammar. In my opinion the Esperanto grammar is easier than Interlingua, but this is just my opinion. But even compared with Interlingua, Esperanto cannot be called "difficult". ;) — N-true 11:43, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say the grammar is so difficult; if anything it's simpler than Esperanto's. The complicated part of Interlingua is the morphology - word formation and so on. But that's also the key to it's high degree of recognisability.66.183.165.57 00:23, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I never said the grammar would be difficult. After all, morphology is a part of a language's grammar. — N-true 00:49, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * With my native knowledge of English and a fair vocabulary (but epic failure in grammar and structure) in French, and microscopic familiarity with the distorted Spanish in Cebuano, I'd have to say that my comprehension of Interlingua is greater than my comprehension of Esperanto. And that is all I can produce as fact.  And that, as sure as gravity, 'aint going into any encyclopedia article. --Talionis (Shout me · Stalk me) 06:41, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Community
So, where is this elusive "community"? I've been interested in learning Interlingua for some time now, but I haven't found anywhere to learn it. I like Lingua Franca Nova, and they have their own wikipedia, but I'm interested in learning Interlingua, too. It's quite widely known, and it's not half as ugly as Esperanto, since I want to teach at least one conlang to my kid. Contact me if you know. InnocentOdion 15:12, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Here it is: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/interlng/ You'll need to register through your regular email address to post though, as on Yahoo Groups I think it's just a mirror and doesn't accept postings through a regular Yahoo account. Mithridates 16:33, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks a million for the website. I've signed up.  However, are there any more? And is there a better place to learn it than interlingua.com? That site isso in need of revamp.  I'd love a website with a layout like lingua-franca-nova.net or lernu.net.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by InnocentOdion (talk • contribs) 11:04, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Subjunctive?
The article says there is no subjunctive, but the sia in the Lord's Prayer clearly is one. That's a contradiction. — Chameleon 00:35, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

 * It's the only one. But yes, someone should clarify that.05:06, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Phonology
I saw that the Phonology graph for the consonants didn't have an ŋ in it. Was this left out on purpose, or should it be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.30.165.156 (talk) 23:20, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Yes, I suppose it was left out on purpose, because while the [ŋ] might be pronounced in Interlingua, it's not phonemic, so a word like lingua is phonemically /ˈlinɡua/ and only phonetically [ˈliŋɡua]. The table lists only the phonemes of the language. — N-true (talk) 00:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Vocabulary
English eye and German Auge are not descended from Latin oculus at all, contrary to what was stated in the article. On the other hand, the Romance words (ojo, occhio, olho, etc) do descend from Latin oculus (by way of Vulgar Latin oclu). Seeing that the Germanic and Romance languages are related, one might say (informally) that eye and Auge were "cousins" of oculus - but never its descendants. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.199.51 (talk) 05:30, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

Spelling irregularities
I'm a huge supporter of Interlingua - in fact, I'm on the executive of one of the national organizations - but I would never deny that there are some spelling irregularities, if by irregularities we mean departures from one-symbol:one-phoneme mappings that are not covered by simple rules. For example, girafa 'giraffe' begins with /ʒ/ (or /dʒ/) while girar 'gyrate' begins with /g/. The fact that the Interlingua-English Dictionary needs a pronunciation key for some words is sufficient documentation for this fact. 64.180.222.133 (talk) 18:11, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Are you sure the word girafa is pronounced with /ʒ/ or /dʒ/ in the beginning? I'm not an Interlingua speaker, but could it be it's pronounced with a /g/ as in German "Giraffe"? — N-true (talk) 18:16, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The IED says "girafa (jiráfa) n giraffe". In practice, you could get away with /girafa/ - I doubt anyone would notice. In fact, some people ignore the hard G rule and say /ʒirar/ etc. with no real miscommunication. (Come to think of it, I don't understand why Gode & Co. went for the soft G, when they substituted hard G for Anglo-Romance soft G in so many other cases. But the IED is clear on the question.)64.180.222.133 (talk) 18:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Then, since IED has no special pronunciation key for the word acetic, I gather it is pronounced /atsétsik/ per the rules?

Japanese grammar simple?
I have some troube with this sextion: More recently, Interlingua's grammar has been likened to the simple grammars of Japanese and particularly Chinese. Who claims Japanese has simple grammar? It doesn't inflect by person but except for that, I wouldn't say it's any simpler than Western languages, just different. I studied the basics earlier, and it hasn't struck me as a grammatically simple language. Chinese, on the other hand, I understand, 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * (talk) 22:40, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Japanese may be not the easier language, but the grammar is quite regular.

As a linguist who has spent time in Japan, I would say that the grammar of Japanese is objectively simpler than the vast majority of the world's languages. It has a very consistent system for marking verbal participants, no case system even in pronouns (which actually behave more like nouns), no subject-verb agreement, minimal tense marking, few (truly) irregular verbs, and a very consistent word order. As a model for constructed languages, its grammar would be close to ideal except for the fact that it is strongly head-last, which makes it more difficult to process (as evidenced by aphasia studies and the tendency of creoles to be head-first).

One can get away with fewer morphemes in Chinese, but I would argue that Japanese grammar is simpler in a way because it is so systematic and consistent.

--Cliff Jones, M.A. (Linguistics) (talk) 01:22, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Lord's Prayer translation(s)
How come the Lord's Prayer in this article is so different from the one in the Interlingua version of this article? Shouldn't they be the same, since (assuming 'Specimen de Interlingua' means what I think it does) they're both in Interlingua? Are they traditional and modern versions?

And another question... does there even need to be be a sample of Interlingua on that page, which is entirely written in Interlingua? I guess there is some use for it, since nobody reading the page would be a native speaker, and so probably wouldn't already know the translation, and would find it useful to compare it with their native language. But then, (tangent on a tangent coming up) most people in "the entire world" do not know the Lord's Prayer. Still, I suppose we won't get much better than 2 billion out of 6 billion with any other sample text. Angelastic (talk) 13:52, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not particularly different, except for the word order. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * (talk) 20:55, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Seeing as most people in "the entire world" do not know the Lord's Prayer, maybe we should have it in English (or whatever language version being viewed) as well? I for one do not know the Lord's Prayer. I mean, not everyone is able to figure out the Interlingua meanings, and there are definitely a lot of people who can't read the Latin well, if at all. It'd be helpful, wouldn't it? Sparkstarthunderhawk (talk) 01:33, 28 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The Lord's Prayer and the Babel Text are traditional methods for comparing human languages (a much longer one is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, but that's too long for a wikipedia article). An english translation should definately be provided.  Almafeta (talk) 13:14, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Serious neutrality/veracity issues
I deleted this bit: "'the most recent conference (2005), in Sweden, was attended by slightly over 250 people.'", because it is incorrect, as I pointed out several years ago! (I was there myself - there were about 80 people.)

In general I think the article has serious neutrality issues. Some of the information seems downright misleading. For instance:

"'Interlingua is taught in many high schools and universities, sometimes as a means of teaching other languages quickly, presenting interlinguistics, or introducing the international vocabulary.'"

While it's true that the University of Granada have courses in interlinguistics where they study Interlingua, I highly doubt that it has been taught in any highschools since the seventies. Later I'll look for the issue of Panorama that is cited as a course, but I'm reasonably sure.

Also, is it really in accordance with the principles of neutrality etc. to use so many texts written by interlinguists themselves (*in* Interlingua, even) for backing up claims of the success/benefits of Interlingua?

See for instance this paragraph:

"Today, interest in Interlingua has expanded from the scientific community to the general public. Individuals, governments, and private companies use Interlingua for learning and instruction, travel, online publishing, and communication across language barriers.[24][25][26]"

That cites as sources three texts in Interlingua written by two highly esteemed interlinguists.

I'm an Interlingua speaker myself, but I can't stomach this kind of thing in what is supposed to be a neutral encyclopedia. Who has been writing this article anyway? Some other Interlingua speakers? --Laurentio313 (talk) 01:20, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree. I added an NPOV warning. Caroliano (talk) 16:04, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree too, and I'm an Interlingua fanatic myself.64.180.222.133 (talk) 22:39, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm... Chris "Ave"? :-) ::--Laurentio313 (talk) 13:59, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

At the beginning of the "Criticisms and controversies" part is ''While Interlingua is a successful auxiliary language, it has been criticised, often by proponents of other auxiliary languages. This may be partly because both supporters and opponents see Interlingua as a candidate for being the universal, neutral second language for the world to use. '' From my point of view, these words, especially the underlined part, are pretty biased. Could someone please edit it to ensure neutrality? Wyvernoid (talk) 15:18, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Re-write/edit?
Salute, Laurentia and everyone else. The article has received a lot of excellent contributions by various people, and has been almost totally free of some of the politics found in some articles. There's a basis for a really fine article. That said, I think it needs to be shorter and more neutral. It's an encyclopedia article: we're neither advocating nor attacking the use of Interlingua for any particular purpose; we're just documenting it as an interesting phenomenon. The average person coming here is not likely to have an intense interest in the minutia of Interlingua history or the current state of the Interlingua movement. All that sort of detail can be exported to sub-articles, of which there are already several. What I suggest we emphasise are the highlights: the unique qualities of interlingua, where it fits in the whole auxiliary-language field, what uses it's been put to. Something about half the current length, but the deleted material should be (mostly) re-worked and exported to subsidiary articles.64.180.222.133 (talk) 17:34, 16 June 2008 (UTC)

NPOV dispute
Adding a new section for a NPOV dispute is recommended in the how-to guide.

Reasons enumerated in Section 14 are sufficient for validating this dispute.

My only contributions (about 700 edits ago) were removed in a matter of days by one person who described the deletions as minor corrections and a rework -- no shadow of the content was reflected in the rework, however. The information, which reflected the views of one of the mid-20th-century directors of the IALA (with whom I enjoyed a brief correspondence) was certainly appropriate to an historical discussion of Interlingua. (I have a record of my interaction with Frank Esterhill -- source material.) Any information that offers a balance to the gushing and glowing pro-Interlingua propaganda in the article is removed. The low status of Interlingua, and conlangs in general, on the world stage is not accepted by the ideologues. This link http://www.nypl.org/research/chss/spe/rbk/faids/interlingua.pdf from the NEW YORK PUBLIC LIBRARY demonstrates that a massive amount of Interlingua and IALA history and research is not reflected in the Interlingua article.

Championdante (talk) 00:22, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I looked at your previous edit, and in my opinion it was a good contribution and shouldn't have been removed. But it did require further editing. I'd encourage you to make it again.64.180.222.133 (talk) 18:37, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

"Eye" in Russian - not "oko"
The French œil, Italian occhio, Spanish ojo, and Portuguese olho appear quite different, but they descend from a historical form oculus. German Auge, Dutch oog and English eye (cf. Russian око)

"Eye" in Russian = "glaz". "Oko" means "eye" in all Slavic languages. The word "око" is used in the Russian literary language as a poetic form. http://www.gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?word=%EE%EA%EE&all=x — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.223.40.46 (talk) 10:00, 3 April 2012 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pamerast (talk • contribs) 18:35, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

 * You're right! I've changed that part and replaced "око" with oko and "Russian" with "Czech and Polish". — N-true (talk) 18:51, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Apparently "око" is a poetic form, at least according to Wiktionary. 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 23:14, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Not just according to Wiktionary. It certainly exists in Russian, although glaz is much more common in the modern language. If you can read Russian, you can verify it at http://slovari.yandex.ru/ . --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 20:30, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Phonology
dʒ is given as the pronunciation of 'j', but is absent from the chart giving the consonant inventory. 72.75.81.72 (talk) 23:19, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Lord's Prayer
I realised that many language related articles use the "Lord's Prayer" as an example text. IMHO a more neutral, non religious, text should be used to make the articles more neutral. --helohe (talk)  20:07, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

 * The IN Declaration of Human Rights is often used. kwami (talk) 11:13, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

 * For such a short example such as this one, I feel the Declaration of Human Rights to be too long. Back to the original point, across the field of comparative linguistics, the Lord's Prayer is (along with the Babel Text) the standard of comparing two languages.  For some, it may have religious meaning, but in this case, the article just uses the proper standard.  We could switch to the Babel Text, but I don't feel that would be any more unbiased, because in this case, the use of religion is not bias, but standard practice in this field.  PatrickNiedzielski (talk) 04:58, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

 * It's also a bit of an unusual text in that it's mostly in the subjunctive. However, it's been the well-established example text for a long time and switching to a different language makes it hard to take advantage of the reams of translations of the Lord's Prayer already produced precisely for this purpose.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.49.210.238 (talk) 06:27, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

 * IMO, it's a horrible choice as a standard (not sure what the "Babel Text" is; should it have a Wikipedia entry?), being so closely tied to a particular subset of religions. I'd be much happier with something more neutral, like the Declaration of Human Rights, or at least the Preamble, which is pretty broadly translated. However, sometimes one has to suck up a de facto standard and deal with it, however awful it may be.
 * YMMV.
 * * Septegram * Talk * Contributions * 21:58, 17 January 2015 (UTC)

My thoughts
I think the section on the IALA could be cut down in size, if not removed entirely, since this article should be really only be about the language Interlingua rather than the organisation. Perhaps a link to the IALA article could take its place. Also, I'm not sure about the references which are being used, a lot of them seem to be from the IALA and other Interlingua groups rather than disinterested third parties, which may be preferable. What does everyone else think?Rtdixon86 (talk) 18:28, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

 * Ordinarily this sort of thing would be handled by having a brief section here with a main tag at the top. The International Auxiliary Language Association article is currently a stub while the IALA section here is larger, so presumably the rearrangement would involve integrating a good deal of the IALA material from the section here into that article; note that, to satisfy copyright, the edit summary there needs to say that the material comes from here.  (Cf. WP:SPLIT.)  --Pi zero (talk) 00:51, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Bad Criticism intro
The first para of the section Criticism claims:
 * While Interlingua is a successful auxiliary language, it has been criticised, often by proponents of other auxiliary languages. This may be partly because both supporters and opponents see Interlingua as a candidate for being the universal, neutral second language for the world to use.[6][45]

Which seems like declaring:
 * OK, there's criticism against this language, but that's not to be taken seriously, because the criticism is made by speakers of other auxiliary languages.

That is not WP:NPOV!

A neutral Criticism section should tell us:
 * 1. try to classify criticisms, such as in "naturalness/artificialness", "grammar", "intelligiblity", "learnability" etc.,
 * 2. paragraph per paragraph make a short discourse per criticism classes according to 1., and if available also write the counterarguments.

As it is now, the Criticism section does:
 * para 1. declares that all criticism comes from envious competitors — yadayadayada!,
 * para 2. explains how fantastical it is — no criticism,
 * para 3. (unsourced!) not as international/neutral as claimed, spelling issues - should IMHO be split and sourced
 * para 4. (unsourced!) counterarguments to the previous, and an out-of-the blue praise of the grammar of Interlingua - should IMHO be interspersed with several per-topic criticism paragraphs

And don't forget that the most well-structured language is the easiest to criticise. Rursus dixit. ( m bork3 !) 16:03, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Speaking about the gremlins, why is it that there is an article Criticism of Esperanto but no Criticism of Interlingua? Is Interlingua not noteworthy enough? A superficial googling for "criticism of Esperanto" gives 19 700 hits and a googling for "criticism of Interlingua" gives 5 590 hits, which makes Interlingua noteworthy on the web. But not here? Rursus dixit. ( m bork3 !) 16:18, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

 * I agree with this. Sourced or not, the opening statement reads like the only criticisms are from other auxiliary language supporters.  The particular statement "as a candidate for being the universal...language" is extremely blatant.  216.96.14.215 (talk) 01:30, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Number of speakers
The number of speakers are said to be “a few hundred”. How many members do Union Mundial pro Interlingua have? I think the numbers should be roughly the same.

2015-01-09 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Syntax?
I would like some info on the syntax of interlingua, if possible (= sourceable). Rursus dixit. ( m bork3 !) 11:09, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

In the Socialist bloc
This section is too biased. It empathizes suppression and persecution, some "treatening letters" (from whom? was it anonymous letter? treatening letter without mentioning from whom it is received says nothing about aleged persecution), dispite the mentioned fact that Interlingua was teached in schools there(!), a practice never observed in the West. I suggest this section be rewritten more neutral.--MathFacts (talk) 11:17, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

If that Czech guy was really being persecuted for Interlingua, then he wouldn't be allowed to work in the school system at all (as was no church-goer or other "bad influence" during this period). He certainly wouldn't be holding (state-funded) lessons in it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.58.195.85 (talk) 14:52, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Walter Raédler
The guy's name is Walter Rädler. Please correct. --217.6.251.18 (talk) 11:12, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Map
I’ve removed the map because it contains several grave errors and is highly misleading. In addition what has been noted above, e.g. French (or any other Romance language) is not “commonly spoken” in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia – neither as a first nor as a second language. English has long eclipsed French as a second language taught in schools in those countries, and the proportion of non-native speakers of French is higher in most European countries than it is in those three South-East Asian countries. --Babelfisch (talk) 03:05, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

Interlingua at institutions of European Union
Excists at least two reference according matter of Interlingua presentation at European parliament. Its not full clear if that were face-to-face presentation or written recommendation only. There is high presumption that it was done face-to-face like same kind of technical briefing. I only tripped over during browsing interlingua.com/libros.

REF#1: http://www.interlingua.com/libros/god-pet.htm

Gopsill, F. P.: Interlingua, concepto e structura Un presentation de interlingua al Parlamento Europee, Bruxelles, le 29 de septembre 1993. British Interlingua Society, 1993, 24 pp., ill., A5. ISBN 1-898017-05-0.

Contine un excellente exposition del possibilitates de interlingua pro organisationes international.

British Interlingua Society: 1 GBP.

REF#2: http://openlibrary.org/books/OL609788M/Interlingua — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.128.3.22 (talk) 19:12, 17 February 2012 (UTC)

'educated speakers of English'?
What on -earth- is the part under 'Community' that says '[allowing] educated speakers of English, to read and understand it without prior study' supposed to mean..? The only chance a speaker of English, no matter how educated, is going to be able to read or understand this 'without prior study', unless that education is in the area of European languages, Latin or something of that ilk. =/ If that is what is intended then it really needs to be re-worded as it doesn't read that way, otherwise it ought to be removed. Thoughts one way or the other? =/ -Joey- (talk) 03:03, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Apologies for 'hijacking' your post, Joey, but I don't have an account. I was going to post an almost identical comment. I can read Interlingua fluently and I am an "educated speaker of English", but specifically I have a degree in French and studied Latin to 'A' level. Without at least one of these components then, no matter how broad the remainder of my education, Interlingua would not be more than partially intelligible to me and I would suggest that this would be true for anybody without a good grounding, either through nationality or education, in a romance language, with Latin being the most useful, followed by Italian and French. I would suggest that the Lord's Prayer given as an example would not be recognised as such by a peaker of any germanic or slavonic language unless they had studied Latin for several years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.28.154.126 (talk) 13:28, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I have to agree with Joey and our no-account friend (no offense, me, too). I speak Spanish well, and can read Italian, Portuguese, and French a little, and yet it took me a few seconds to recognize the “Lord’s prayer.”  Esperanto and Ido are just as easy (or difficult), so the claim of "most widely understood" is indeed marketing puffery at best. Earlier in the article, a credible source is cited that Interlingua has only 1500 users. With Esperanto claiming 100,000, 2000 of them "native," Interlingua doesn’t have much room for bragging!216.50.37.231 (talk) 07:46, 30 August 2016 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Latin which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 00:44, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

claims that have to be contested
Hello,

IA sources claim it was the "most understandable IAL", which I contest.

Coming from Latino sine flexione, IA seems to have - broadly - taken up IL, added some grammar that was discussed in the "Discussiones" of the Academia pro Interlingua and rejected as "strippable", had a much narrower focus of participating linguists than IL, and took over much of the names and terms of Interlingua IL. "Interlingua de Peano", instead of "Interlingua de A.p.I.", seems to be a mis-nomer and false-leading; if at all, "Interlingua de IALA" should be "Interlingua IA de Gode", as Latino sine Flexione was discussed by a number of scientists in the Discussiones de Academia pro Interlingua, so a truly democratic and collaborative approach is documented for IL. Today, the term "Academia pro Interlingua", "Hard-Wired" into IL history, seems to have been grabbed by a "wikia fandom" community for IA.

IA may be more understandable for an Anglophone, and as it came out being almost a plagiarised IL certainly is easily understandable for people familiar with a Romanic language; however, as IL used also the approach of a "Vocabulario Commune" (EDITED by G. Peano), and had a principle to do away with everything deemed unnecessary by other languages (including the article, that IA still kept), I see reason to at least reduce IA's superiority claim to "ONE OF THE best understandable IALs", at least besides Interlingua de A.p.I. / Latino sine Flexione.

The corpus of original publications in IL de A.p.I. is given in the range of 3,000 pages (not counting IL textbooks and translations; as IL textbooks tend to be quite brief, they shouldn't have much of an impact, however). As there is no more A.p.I., IA may have more avid proponents that got it a language code; however, counted down, as IL-A.p.I. was used for scientific publications (normally tagged today as "Latin", "Italian"...) it may very well be that the IL-A.p.I. corpus is more extensive than the IA-IALA corpus. --217.224.148.215 (talk) 13:05, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Question: if IA means Interlingua here, what is IL? A code il is not defined as ISO 639-1. Ruud Harmsen (talk) 18:32, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

 * The abbreviation IA is used for Interlingua of IALA (this article) while IL is used for Interlingua of Peano and ApI, aka Latino sine flexione. –MwGamera (talk) 22:03, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

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"Interlingvo" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Interlingvo. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 June 22 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Soumya-8974 talk contribs subpages 06:21, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

"Romanica language" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Romanica language. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 June 22 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Soumya-8974 talk contribs subpages 06:22, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

"Romanica" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Romanica. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 June 22 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Soumya-8974 talk contribs subpages 06:22, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Merger proposal 22 June 2020
Eligibility of international words in Interlingua → Interlingua – I think that the content in the Eligibility of international words in Interlingua can easily be explained in the context of Interlingua, especially more WP:SUMMARIZED, and the Interlingua is of a reasonable size that the merging of Eligibility of international words in Interlingua will not cause any problems as far as article size is concerned. --Soumya-8974 talk contribs subpages 08:50, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

 * Fully agreed! And I believe the same thing goes for Free word-building in Interlingua as well. —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu?  10:15, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

 * And now that we're at it, I noticed that History of Interlingua is practically identical to the history section of the main article. A separate history article is totally unneeded and even undesirable, since it makes things a lot harder to maintain. —IJzeren Jan Uszkiełtu?  10:32, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Outdated citation for the only user-population statistic?
End of 1st paragraph

"...though it is actively spoken by only a few hundred.[1]"

Citation is 24 years old... 69.117.213.159 (talk) 06:49, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Alleged use by ISO

 * In 1967, the International Organization for Standardization, which normalizes terminology, voted to adopt Interlingua as the basis for its dictionaries.

This is an interesting claim, but I can't find any evidence this went anywhere - Google turns up nothing. Gospill's book costs 200 bucks and has only 1 review on Goodreads, so does anyone with access know if he has a citation for this? Maybe it's stuck in dusty old books from the 60s, but this is a "press X to doubt" deal - does the ISO even publish "dictionaries"? What topics were these Interlingua ISO dictionaries on? Given the overstatements elsewhere in the older version of the article, it wouldn't shock me if there was some subcommittee somewhere that passed a resolution saying "Interlingua is cool" and had one 20-page circular in Interlingua, then was forgotten. If this really happened, it's worth more information, hence moving this to the talk page rather than just deleting it, but as is it needs a better reference not from an Interlingua proponent (and, say, the ISO itself). SnowFire (talk) 23:20, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

 * I dug up Gopsill's book. Don't be fooled by the title, an alternate title could well have been "Why Esperanto sucks and I hate it," as one of the theses advanced by Gopsill is that the world would have been happy to embrace the idea of an international language if Esperanto didn't suck and give conlangs a bad name.  Anyway he didn't really give more details, just that the ISO decision proved that Esperanto was wrong because Eugen Wüster was an Esperantist and he was on the ISO and therefore this proved that Esperantists agree it sucks and Interlingua was better.  Best kept out unless we can have a more neutral source described what exactly happened and what the relevance was.  SnowFire (talk) 03:33, 29 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Interlingua


text:
User:Timmdanker

Hi, my name is Timm Danker. If you have any questions or comments, you may contact me at timmdanker@gmx.de.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Timmdanker


text:
Visual DialogScript

Visual DialogScript (VDS) is an interpreted programming language for Microsoft Windows, using dialog and graphic elements to create programs. VDS is similar to other programming languages such as Visual Basic, C++, or Delphi, as they use Windows API.

Language
The syntax of VDS is straightforward. Each command occupies one line and has a plain English name that clearly describes its purpose. Variables are typeless and can hold many kinds of information, such as numbers or text. Functions are clearly distinguishable with names that start with '@', similar to a spreadsheet.

The DialogScript language has a syntax similar to the MS-DOS batch language. It is designed for ease of use and efficiency when being interpreted by the run-time engine. There are 10 system variables, %0 to %9, which initially have the script file name in %0 and command line parameters in %1 through %9, just as in a batch file. There are also a further 26 user variables, from %A to %Z. The contents of all variables (including system ones) can be changed once the script is running. There are now also 4032 global variables. These variables begin with %%, a letter, then alphanumerics plus underscores (e.g., %%my_variable_1.) There is no limit on the length of these user-defined variable names.

Syntax examples
Comments:

Simple Information Message Box:

Simple Warning Message Box:

Create a custom dialog box:

Write to the Windows Registry:

Display an input prompt dialog box, storing the result in the variable %A:

History
Julian Moss (1953 – October 24, 2014[1]) of JM-Tech/Tech-Pro Ltd. created Visual DialogScript. In 1998, after version 3.0, Emmanuel Daunizeau of S.A.D.E. Sarl took over the ownership and development of VDS. He modified and improved its syntax. The British company Commercial Research Ltd. currently markets VDS, though it is still the property of Emmanuel Daunizeau, who continues to develop it.

The developers have released several versions of VDS over time.
 * Visual DialogScript 2.0
 * Visual DialogScript 2.5
 * Visual DialogScript 3.0
 * Visual DialogScript 3.5
 * Visual DialogScript 4
 * Visual DialogScript 4.5
 * Visual DialogScript 5
 * Visual DialogScript 5.01
 * Visual DialogScript 5.02
 * Visual DialogScript 6

Currently available versions
There are several versions available for download:
 * 1) Personal Visual DialogScript (PVDS) 4: This freeware version is intended for students and home PC users. The package includes a short tutorial and full online help, which includes many example scripts. The software is not licensable for commercial use. This version is incapable of producing compiled executable files; however, compiling files is not necessary, as a script file can be executed directly by opening it from Windows Explorer on any system that has PVDS installed on it.
 * 2) Visual DialogScript 2.5 (16-Bit Edition): This version marked the last release for Windows 3.1+ (16-bit).
 * 3) Visual DialogScript 5: This version is for power users, business users, and professional developers who use—or are developing scripts for—Windows 95/98/ME or Windows NT/2000/XP. This version can create compiled executable files, and includes a royalty-free run-time license (once registered). Additional features include an icon editor and support for many add-on extensions. As a 32-bit program, it supports long filenames, taskbar tray icons, unlimited length strings, and string lists, and the Windows Registry. This legacy version is now available for download for registered users and is not available for purchase.
 * 4) Visual DialogScript 6: The newest version of Visual DialogScript improves upon Visual DialogScript 5 and adds full support for Windows Vista. Additionally, the registered version can now create standalone compiled executable files that do not require an external runtime file.

title: Visual DialogScript


text:
Mazara del Vallo

Mazara del Vallo (Mazzara [matˈtsaːɾa]) is a city and comune in the province of Trapani, southwestern Sicily, Italy. It lies mainly on the left bank at the mouth of the Mazaro river.

It is an agricultural and fishing centre and its port gives shelter to the largest fishing fleet in Italy. The city is also one of the most historically significant in Sicily.

Etymology and origins
Mazara was founded by the Phoenicians in the 9th century BC with the name of Mazar who made it an important mercantile emporium. The discovery of Phoenician vases demonstrate the existence of a Phoenician port built between the 6th and 5th centuries BC. Other evidence is in the palace of the Knights of Malta, where finds show the existence of the ancient Punic trading post. Also a stone slab engraved with a Phoenician inscription found in the channel of the river Màzaro is now preserved in the Museum of the Dancing Satyr.

It then passed under the control of Greeks, Carthaginians, Romans, Vandals, Ostrogoths, Byzantines, before being occupied by the Arabs in the year 827 AD. During the Arab period, Sicily was divided into three different administrative regions, Val di Noto, Val Demone and Val di Mazara, making the city an important commercial harbour and centre of learning.

In 1072, Mazara was conquered by Normans, headed by Roger I. During that period, in 1093, the Roman Catholic Diocese of Mazara del Vallo was instituted.

After the death of Emperor Frederick II, Sicily passed to the Angevins, then followed by the Catalans of the Aragon Crown. The Aragon period (1282–1409) is characterized by a political, economic and demographic decline of Mazara. The city passed under the control of the House of Savoy in 1713, a reign which lasted only five years, being replaced by the Habsburg Empire (for 16 years) followed by the Bourbons. In 1860 the city was finally conquered by Giuseppe Garibaldi and the Mille, thus joining the then newly formed Kingdom of Italy.

The city was known as Mazzara del Vallo until the World War II period, following which the spelling was changed to Mazara del Vallo.

Today
Today Mazara is widely considered to be one of the most important fishing centres of Italy; tussles about fishing rights, especially with the North-African countries, figure large in the town's recent history, boat sequestrations being a common event. Currently the fishing business in the city seems to be less significant, mainly because of the increasing lack of younger people willing to work in the industry.

Geography
Mazara borders with the municipalities of Campobello di Mazara, Castelvetrano, Marsala, Petrosino, and Salemi. It counts the hamlets (frazioni) of Borgata Costiera and Mazara Due.

Main sights
Mazara made national news in March 1998, when a bronze statue called the Dancing Satyr (Satiro Danzante) was found off the port, at a depth of 500 m in the Strait of Sicily by a local fishing boat. The statue is believed to have been sculpted by Greek artist Praxiteles and is now on display to the public in a dedicated museum in the city, after having been on show at the Chamber of Deputies of Rome, and in Aichi, Japan. After this event, the city quickly gained in terms of visiting tourists and a national advertising campaign was mounted with the slogan Mazara del Satiro.

Other attractions include the Norman Arc, that is the remains of the old Norman Castle built in 1073 and demolished in 1880, and a number of churches, including the Royal Saint Nicholas (San Nicolò Regale) Church, a rare example of Norman architecture built in 1124, the Seminary, built in 1710, which surrounds the main local piazza, Piazza della Repubblica, and St. Vitus on the Sea (San Vito a Mare) Church. In honour of St. Vitus, the official patronal saint as well as a native of Mazara del Vallo, the St. Vitus Feast (Lu Fistinu di Santu Vitu) is held every year.

Transportation
Mazara del Vallo is connected to the rest of Sicily by a regional train service (run by Trenitalia), a private bus service (only to Palermo), and by car, via the A29 highway (also known as Palermo-Mazara del Vallo). It is reachable from Trapani-Birgi Airport by an infrequent bus service or by taxi (€20 per person) and from Palermo by car or taxi.

During the summer period, Mazara is also connected via ferry to the island of Pantelleria.

International relations

 * 🇪🇸 Santa Pola, Spain
 * Volos, Greece
 * 🇮🇹 Trebisacce, Italy

title: Mazara del Vallo


text:
Asti

Asti (, ,   ; Ast ) is a comune (municipality) of 74,348 inhabitants (1–1–2021) located in the Italian region of Piedmont, about 55 km east of Turin, in the plain of the Tanaro River. It is the capital of the province of Asti and it is deemed to be the modern capital of Montferrat.

Ancient times and early Middle Ages
People have lived in and around what is now Asti since the Neolithic period. Before their defeat in 174 BC by the Romans, tribes of Ligures, the Statielli, dominated the area and the toponym probably derives from Ast which means "hill" in the ancient Celtic language.

In 124 BC the Romans built a castrum, or fortified camp, which eventually evolved into a full city named Hasta. In 89 BC the city received the status of colonia, and in 49 BC that of municipium. Asti became an important city of the Augustan Regio IX, favoured by its strategic position on the Tanaro river and on the Via Fulvia, which linked Derthona (Tortona) to Augusta Taurinorum (Turin). Other roads connected the city to the main passes for what are today Switzerland and France.

The city was crucial during the early stages of the barbarian invasions which stormed Italy during the fall of the Western Roman Empire. In early 402 AD, the Visigoths had invaded northern Italy and were advancing on Mediolanum (modern Milan) which was the imperial capital at that time. Honorius, the young emperor and a resident in that city, unable to wait for promised reinforcements any longer, was compelled to flee from Milan for safety in the city of Arles in Gaul. However, just after his convoy had left Milan and crossed the River Po his escape route through the Alps was cut off by the Gothic cavalry. This forced him to take emergency refuge in the city of Hasta until more Roman troops could be assembled in Italy. The Goths placed Hasta under siege until March when General Stilicho, bringing reinforcements from the Rhine, fought and defeated them at the Battle of Pollentia. After this first victorious defence, thanks to a massive line of walls, Hasta suffered from the barbarian invasions which stormed Italy after the fall of the Western Empire, and declined economically.

In the second half of the 6th century, it was chosen as a seat for one of the 36 Duchies in which the Lombards divided Italy. The territory of Asti comprised a wide area, stretching out to Albenga and the Maritime Alps. This remained when northern Italy was conquered by the Franks in 774, with the title of County.

In the late Carolingian age, Asti was ruled directly by his bishops, who were the main landlords of the area. Most important are Audax (904-926) and Bruningus (937-966), who moved the episcopal seat to the Castel Vecchio ("Old Castle"), where it remained until 1409. The bishopric of Asti remained a powerful entity well into the 11th century when Pietro II received huge privileges by emperor Henry II. In the second half of the century, Bishop Otto tried to resist the aims of the powerful countess Adelaide of Susa, who damaged the city several times. During Otto's reign, a commune and the consul magistrates are mentioned for the first time (1095).

Local power
Asti was one of the first free communes of Italy, and in 1140 received the right to mint coins of its own by Conrad II. As the commune, however, had begun to erode the lands of the bishop and other local feudatories, the latter sued for help to Frederick Barbarossa, who presented under the city walls with a huge army in February 1155. After a short siege, Asti was stormed and burnt. Subsequently, Asti adhered to the Lombard League (1169) against the German emperor, but was again defeated in 1174. Despite this, after the Peace of Constance (1183), the city gained further privileges.

The 13th century saw the peak of the Astigiani economic and cultural splendour, only momentarily hindered by wars against Alba, Alessandria, Savoy, Milan (which besieged the city in 1230) and the Marquesses of Montferrat and Saluzzo. In particular, the commune aimed to gain control over the lucrative trade routes leading northwards from the Ligurian ports. In this period, the rise of the Casane Astigiane resulted in contrasting political familial alliances of Guelph and Ghibelline supporters. During the wars led by Emperor Frederick II in northern Italy, the city chose his side: Asti was defeated by the Guelphs of Alessandria at Quattordio and Clamandrana, but thanks to Genoese help, it recovered easily. After Frederick's death, the struggle against Thomas II of Savoy became fierce: the Astigiani defeated him on February 23, 1255, at the Battle of Montebruno, but Thomas (who had been taken prisoner) replied ordering all traders from Asti to be arrested in Savoy and France. This move showed worry on the part of Asti's neighbouring states over the excessive power gained by the city, which had captured Alba and controlled both Chieri and Turin.

This state of affairs led to the intervention of Charles I of Anjou, then King of Naples and the most powerful man in Italy. After some guerrilla actions, Asti signed a pact of alliance with Pavia, Genoa and William VII of Montferrat. In 1274 the Astigiani troops were defeated at the Battle of Cassano, but, on December 12, 1275, were victorious over the Angevins at the Battle of Roccavione, ending Charles' attempt to expand in Piedmont. In the 1290s, after William VII had also been defeated, Asti was the most powerful city in Piedmont. However, internal struggles for the control of trading and banking enterprises soon divided the city into factions. The most prominent faction was the powerful bankers of the Solari family, who, in 1314, gave the city to king Robert of Naples. The free Republic of Asti ceased to exist. In 1339 the Ghibelline exiles recaptured the city, expelling the Solari and their allies. In 1342 however, the menace of the Solari counteroffensive led the new rulers to submit to Luchino Visconti of Milan. Visconti built a citadel and a second ring of walls to protect the new burgs of the city. In 1345, at the Battle of Gamenario, the Ghibelline Astigiani and John II of Montferrat again defeated the Neapolitan troops. John ruled over Asti until 1372, but seven years later the city council submitted to Galeazzo II Visconti's authority. Galeazzo in turn assigned it to Louis of Valois, Duke of Orléans.

French and Savoyard domination
With the exception of several brief periods under Visconti, Montferrat and Sforza rule, Asti remained under Valois control; it eventually became a direct subject of the French Crown. The situation changed in the early 16th century, during the wars between Charles V and Francis I of France. In 1526 it was besieged in vain by Charles' condottiero Fabrizio Maramaldo. Three years later, the Treaty of Cambrai assigned Asti to the German emperor, who in turn gave it to the viceroy of Naples. Later the city was included in the dowry that was given to Beatrice of Portugal when she married Charles III of Savoy.

Asti was one of the main Savoyard strongholds in later wars. In 1616, besieged by the Spanish governor of Milan, it was defended by Duke Charles Emmanuel I himself. In 1630–31, the city suffered a high mortality rate from an outbreak of the plague. Some years later Asti was conquered by the Spanish, although Savoy regained the city in 1643. Another unsuccessful Spanish siege occurred in 1650. In November 1703, during the War of Spanish Succession, Asti fell to France again; it was reconquered in 1705 by Victor Amadeus II. In 1745 French troops invaded the city once more, but it was liberated the following year.

In 1797 the Astigiani, enraged by the continuous military campaigns and by their resulting poor economic situation, revolted against the Savoyard government. On July 28 the Repubblica Astese was declared. However, it was suppressed only two days later. The revolutionary chiefs were arrested and executed. The following year the Savoyards were expelled from Piedmont by the French revolutionary army, and Asti was occupied by general Montrichard. After a short reversal, the French returned after the victory at Marengo (1800) near to Alessandra. Napoleon himself visited Asti on April 29, 1805, but was received rather coldly by the citizens. The city was demoted and incorporated with Alessandra under the department of Marengo. After the end of the French empire, Asti returned to Piedmont in 1814; the city followed Piedmontese history until the unification of Italy in 1861.

Climate
Asti has a continental climate which is moderated by the proximity of the Mediterranean sea: its winters are warmer, and its summers cooler than Turin. Rain falls mostly during the spring and autumn; during the hottest months, rain is less common, but stronger when it does occur, usually in thunderstorms. During November and December in particular, the town of Asti can be prone to fog, which is less common in the higher-altitude areas that surround it.

Main sights
Sections of the ancient city walls remain on the north side of the city and in the late 20th century building work uncovered a section of Roman wall in the center of the city.

The area to the northwest of the city, between the centre and the cathedral, is rich in medieval palaces and merchants' houses, many with monumental towers. Asti was known as the city of 100 towers (although there were 120 in total) of which several still remain, among them, the Tower of the Comentini (13th century), the octagonal Torre de Regibus and Torre Troyana (13th century), as well as the ancient Torre Rossa, built during the reign of the Roman Emperor Augustus.

Asti is the home to several old churches. These include:
 * Cathedral of Santa Maria Assunta (built in the 13th century over another Cathedral), one of the biggest in Piedmont, in Romanesque-Gothic style. The monument belfry is from 1266. the façade is characterized by three portals, each surmounted by a big rose window. The interior, with a nave and two aisles, houses a cycle of 18th-century frescoes, some altarpieces by Gandolfino d'Asti and precious silver artworks from the 15th-16th centuries. The presbytery has a noteworthy mosaic floor, from the pre-existing church. Next to the last pilasters of the nave are two 14th-century artworks, the funerary seal of bishop Baldracco Malabaila and the equestrian portrait of Arricino Moneta.
 * Collegiata di San Secondo (13th century) in the old medieval centre next to the Palazzo Civico. It is dedicated to the city's patron saint, Secundus of Asti.  The crypt is from the 6th century. The façade has three notable Gothic portals, while the interior houses a polyptych by Gandolfino d'Asti and other works.
 * Santa Maria Nuova (11th century).
 * San Martino, First mentioned in 886, the old Gothic edifice was dismantled in 1696 and rebuilt along Baroque lines in 1736.
 * Sant'Anastasio (8th-12th century), whose museum has some antique capitals and sculptures.
 * Santa Caterina Baroque church
 * Baptistery of San Pietro(12th century) building from the High Middle Ages in the city. It has an octagonal plan with a wide dome.
 * San Pietro in Consavia (15th century), with elegant external decorations. It is the seat of the Archaeological Museum, with Roman and Egyptian works.

There is a synagogue and a museum depicting the history of Asti's Jewish community, whose presence is documented since 812.

Events
One of the most famous events held in Asti is the famous Palio di Asti, in which all the old town wards, called "Rioni" and "Borghi" plus nearby towns compete in a bare-back horse race. This event recalls a victory in battle versus the rival city Alba, during the Middle Ages after the victorious battle a race was held around Alba's walls, and from then on every year in Asti. Asti's Palio is the oldest recorded one in Italy, and in modern times is held in the triangular Piazza Alfieri preceded by a medieval pageant through the old town on the 3rd Sunday of September.

Wine
The three neighbouring Provinces of Asti, Cuneo, and Alessandria incorporate the Langhe and Monferrato Hills region in the centre of Piedmont, limestone and sandstone deposits laid down by the retreating Adriatic some 5 million years ago, and are home to some of Italy's most known red wines, plus some white ones.

Asti is the centre of production of the sparkling Asti (DOCG, often known as Asti Spumante). Asti is typically sweet and low in alcohol (often below 8%). It is made solely from the moscato bianco white muscat grape. Other wines include a premium version known as Moscato d'Asti (DOCG) and the red Barbera.

The first products from the province of Asti to become known internationally are Martini and Rossi, Gancia and Riccadonna, which made commercial wines like Asti Spumante; red wines such as Barbera d'Asti, Freisa d'Asti, Grignolino d'Asti, Bonarda, Grignolino and Ruché di Castagnole Monferrato are also becoming widespread worldwide. These wines and many others can be sampled during the week-long Douja d'Or wine exhibition which is held at the same time as the Palio and Sagre.

The first documentation on the variety Freisa d'Asti are from the beginning of the 16th century.

Food
Asti is also famous for its Asti's Festival of Festivals, held in September a week before the Palio. During the festival most of the towns in Asti's province meet in a great square called "Campo del Palio", they offer typical food and wine for which they are known. On the Sunday of the Sagre, all the towns involved stage a parade with floats depicting traditional farming with everyone in costume along Asti's roads to reach "Campo del Palio" square.

Asti province becomes a gourmand's delight from October to December in the white truffle or "tartufo bianco" season. Although neighbouring Alba is better known for its October truffle fair, some of the best truffles are found around Asti's hills, and every weekend there is a local truffle festival.

Sport
The main football club of the town was Asti Calcio F.C. (ex-A.C.D. Asti), which folded in 2017. Another football club, A.S.D. Colline Alfieri Don Bosco (ex-A.C. Celle, from Celle Enomondo), relocated to the city and was renamed to "A.S.D. Alfieri Asti" in 2017. Since 2019 it was known as A.S.D. Asti.

Former futsal league champion, A.S.D. Asti Calcio a 5 is also based in Asti.

Transport
Asti railway station, opened in 1849, forms part of the Turin–Genoa and Castagnole–Asti–Mortara railways. It is also a junction for two other lines, to Genoa and Chivasso, respectively.

People
People from Asti include:
 * Gandolfino d'Asti, or Gandolfino da Roreto (active 1493–1518) Renaissance painter
 * Vittorio Alfieri (1749–1803), a dramatist who has been described as the "founder of Italian tragedy"
 * Isaac Artom (1829 –1900), writer, diplomat, and politician
 * Michelangelo Pittatore (1825–1903), portrait painter
 * Umberto Cagni (1863–1932), polar explorer and admiral
 * Carlo Alberto Castigliano (1847–1884), mathematician and physicist
 * Mikhail Tsvet (Михаил Семёнович Цвет, also spelled Tsvett, Tswett, Tswet, Zwet, and Cvet; 1872–1919) Russian-Italian botanist and inventor of chromatography
 * Ettore Desderi (1892–1974), composer best known for his sacred music
 * Paolo Conte (born 1937), painter, poet and songwriter
 * Giovanni Goria (1943–1994), Christian Democratic politician, prime minister of Italy from 1987 until 1988
 * Giorgio Faletti (1950–2014), writer, actor and singer-songwriter
 * Maurizio Lobina (born 1973), dance musician and member of worldwide famous dance music band Eiffel 65, and ex-member of Bloom 06
 * Matteo Paro (born 1983), footballer
 * Rinaldo Capello (born 1964), driver, three times winner of 24 Hours of Le Mans
 * Fabio Mengozzi (born 1980), pianist and composer
 * One of Pope Francis's cousins is from Asti; Francis's father emigrated to Argentina from the territory of the Asti Diocese

Frazioni
The Asti comune consists of the following frazioni:

Casabianca, Castiglione, Mombarone, Montegrosso, Montemarzo, Poggio D'Asti, Quarto D'Asti, Revignano, San Marzanotto, Serravalle, Sessant, Stazione Di Portacomaro, Vaglierano, Valgera, Valleandona, Valletanaro, Variglie, Viatosto, Avidano, Baciglio, Balestrino, Barbantana, Belangero, Beneficio-Stangona, Biamini, Bramairate, Bricchetto, Bricco Modena, Briccolino, Burie, Cà Dei Coppi, Carretti, Cascin Ruasin, Cascina Angelo, Cascina Conti, Cascina Fanfarina, Cascina Fontana, Cascina Gioia, Cascina Stella, Cascine Artiglione, Cascine Roasio, Ceresa, Cravera, Distretto, Fornaca, Ghirlandina, Gianotti, Giberto, Lama-Garoppa, Madonna Di Caniglie, Madonna Di Viatosto, Malandroni, Manina, Manzoni, Matei, Meridiana, Olivero, Palucco, Quaranta, Quarto, Roccaschiavino, Rocche Di Callianetto, Rossi, San Giuseppe, San Grato, San Marzanotto Piana, San Sebastiano, Stazione Di Sessant, Torrazzo, Vaglierano Basso, Vairo, Valcossana-Grilletto, Valenzani, Valfea, Valmairone, Vareglio.

International relations
Asti is twinned with:
 * 🇺🇸 Miami-Dade, Florida, United States, since 1985
 * 🇫🇷 Valence, France, since 1966
 * 🇩🇪 Biberach an der Riß, Germany
 * 🇮🇱 Ma'alot-Tarshiha, Israel
 * Nanyang, Henan, China

title: Asti


text:
Villanova d'Asti

Villanova d'Asti is a town and comune in the province of Asti, Piedmont, northern Italy. It has around 5,000 inhabitants. The economy is based on a mixture of agriculture and industry.

Villanova d'Asti was founded in the Middle Ages.

The main sight is the sanctuary of the Beata Vergine delle Grazie

Twin towns — sister cities
Villanova d'Asti is twinned with:

 * 🇫🇷 Châteaurenard, France, since 1994
 * 🇦🇷 Santa Clara de Saguier, Argentina, since 2012

title: Villanova d'Asti


text:
Dacia

Dacia was the land inhabited by the Dacians, its core in Transylvania, stretching to the Danube in the south, the Black Sea in the east, and the Tisza in the west. The Carpathian Mountains were located in the middle of Dacia. It thus roughly corresponds to present-day Romania, as well as parts of Moldova, Bulgaria, Serbia, Hungary, Slovakia, and Ukraine.

A Dacian kingdom that united the Dacians and the Getae people existed between 82 BC until the Roman conquest in AD 106, reaching its height under King Burebista. As a result of the two wars with Emperor Trajan, the population was dispersed and the central city, Sarmizegetusa Regia, was destroyed by the Romans, but was rebuilt by them 40 km away to serve as the capital of the Roman province of Dacia. A group of "Free Dacians", may have remained outside the Roman Empire in the territory of modern-day Northern Romania until the start of the Migration Period. The provincial area was conquered by the Romans and incorporated as Roman Dacia, and the area was controlled by the Romans from the conquest in AD 106 to AD 275, over a century of rule.

Nomenclature
The Dacians are first mentioned in the writings of the Ancient Greeks, in Herodotus (Histories Book IV XCIII: "[Getae] the noblest as well as the most just of all the Thracian tribes") and Thucydides (Peloponnesian Wars, Book II: "[Getae] border on the Scythians and are armed in the same manner, being all mounted archers"). Some historians argue that Daxia (mentioned in 3rd century BC) was the previous home of Indo-Iranian nomads who later came to form the Geto-Dacian people.

Geographical history
The extent and location of Dacia varied in its three distinct historical periods (see below):

1st century BC
The Dacia of King Burebista (82–44 BC) stretched from the Black Sea to the source of the river Tisza and from the Balkan Mountains to Bohemia. During that period, the Getae and Dacians conquered a wider territory and Dacia extended from the Middle Danube to the Black Sea littoral (between Apollonia and Pontic Olbia) and from the Northern Carpathians to the Balkan Mountains. In 53 BC, Julius Caesar stated that the lands of the Dacians started on the eastern edge of the Hercynian (Black) Forest. After Burebista's death, his kingdom fell apart.

1st century AD
Strabo, in his Geography written around AD 20, says:

"″As for the southern part of Germany beyond the Albis, the portion which is just contiguous to that river is occupied by the Suevi; then immediately adjoining this is the land of the Getae, which, though narrow at first, stretching as it does along the Ister [ Danube] on its southern side and on the opposite side along the mountain-side of the Hercynian [Black] Forest (for the land of the Getae also embraces a part of the mountains), afterwards broadens out towards the north as far as the Tyregetae; but I cannot tell the precise boundaries″"

On this basis, Lengyel and Radan (1980), Hoddinott (1981) and Mountain (1998) consider that the Geto-Dacians inhabited both sides of the Tisza river prior to the rise of the Celtic Boii, and again after the latter were defeated by the Dacians. The hold of the Dacians between the Danube and the Tisza was tenuous. However, the archaeologist Parducz argued for a Dacian presence west of the Tisa dating from the time of Burebista. According to Tacitus (AD 56–117) Dacians bordered Germania in the south-east, while Sarmatians bordered it in the east.

In the 1st century AD, the Iazyges settled West of Dacia, on the plain between the Danube and the Tisa rivers, according to the scholars' interpretation of Pliny's text: "The higher parts between the Danube and the Hercynian Forest (Black Forest) as far as the winter quarters of Pannonia at Carnutum and the plains and level country of the German frontiers there are occupied by the Sarmatian Iazyges, while the Dacians whom they have driven out hold the mountains and forests as far as the river Theiss".

2nd century AD
Written a few decades after Emperor Trajan's Roman conquest of parts of Dacia in AD 105–106, Ptolemy's Geographia included the boundaries of Dacia. According to the scholars' interpretation of Ptolemy (Hrushevskyi 1997, Bunbury 1879, Mocsy 1974, Bărbulescu 2005) Dacia was the region between the rivers Tisza, Danube, upper Dniester, and Siret. Mainstream historians accept this interpretation: Avery (1972) Berenger (1994) Fol (1996) Mountain (1998), Waldman Mason (2006).

Ptolemy also provided a couple of Dacian toponyms in south Poland in the Upper Vistula (Polish: Wisla) river basin: Susudava and Setidava (with a manuscript variant Getidava). This could have been an "echo" of Burebista's expansion. It seems that this northern expansion of the Dacian language, as far as the Vistula river, lasted until AD 170–180 when the migration of the Vandal Hasdingi pushed out this northern Dacian group. This Dacian group, possibly the Costoboci/Lipița culture, is associated by Gudmund Schütte with towns having the specific Dacian language ending "dava" i.e. Setidava.

The Roman province Dacia Traiana, established by the victors of the Dacian Wars during AD 101–106, initially comprised only the regions known today as Banat, Oltenia, Transylvania, and was subsequently gradually extended to southern parts of Moldavia, while Dobruja and Budjak belonged to the Roman province of Moesia.

In the 2nd century AD, after the Roman conquest, Ptolemy puts the eastern boundary of Dacia Traiana (the Roman province) as far east as the Hierasus (Siret) river, in the middle of modern Romania. Roman rule extended to the south-western area of the Dacian Kingdom (but not to what later became known as Maramureş), to parts of the later Principality of Moldavia east of the Siret and north of the Upper Trajan Wall, and to areas in modern Muntenia and Ukraine, except the Black Sea shore.

After the Marcomannic Wars (AD 166–180), Dacian groups from outside Roman Dacia had been set in motion. So too were the 12,000 Dacians "from the neighbourhood of Roman Dacia sent away from their own country". Their native country could have been the Upper Tisa region, but other places cannot be excluded.

The later Roman province Dacia Aureliana, was organized inside former Moesia Superior after the retreat of the Roman army from Dacia, during the reign of emperor Aurelian during AD 271–275. It was reorganized as Dacia Ripensis (as a military province) and Dacia Mediterranea (as a civil province).

Cities
Ptolemy gives a list of 43 names of towns in Dacia, out of which arguably 33 were of Dacian origin. Most of the latter included the added suffix "dava" (meaning settlement, village). But, other Dacian names from his list lack the suffix (e.g. Zarmisegethusa regia = Zermizirga). In addition, nine other names of Dacian origin seem to have been Latinised.

The cities of the Dacians were known as -dava, -deva, -δαυα ("-dawa" or "-dava", Anc. Gk.), -δεβα ("-deva", Byz. Gk.) or -δαβα ("-dava", Byz. Gk.), etc..

 * 1) In Dacia: Acidava, Argedava, Buridava, Dokidava, Carsidava, Clepidava, Cumidava, Marcodava, Netindava, Patridava, Pelendava, *Perburidava, Petrodaua, Piroboridaua, Rhamidaua, Rusidava, Sacidava, Sangidava, Setidava, Singidava, Tamasidava, Utidava, Zargidava, Ziridava, Sucidava – 26 names altogether.
 * 2) In Lower Moesia (the present Northern Bulgaria) and Scythia minor (Dobrudja): Aedeba, *Buteridava, *Giridava, Dausadava, Kapidaua, Murideba, Sacidava, Scaidava (Skedeba), Sagadava, Sukidaua (Sucidava) – 10 names in total.
 * 3) In Upper Moesia (the districts of Nish, Sofia, and partly Kjustendil): Aiadaba, Bregedaba, Danedebai, Desudaba, Itadeba, Kuimedaba, Zisnudeba – seven names in total.

Gil-doba, a village in Thracia, of unknown location.

Thermi-daua, a town in Dalmatia. Probably a Grecized form of *Germidava.

Pulpu-deva, (Phillipopolis) today Plovdiv in Bulgaria.

Rubobostes
Geto-Dacians inhabited both sides of the Tisa river prior to the rise of the Celtic Boii and again after the latter were defeated by the Dacians under the king Burebista. It seems likely that the Dacian state arose as a tribal confederacy, which was united only by charismatic leadership in both military-political and ideological-religious domains. At the beginning of the 2nd century BC, under the rule of Rubobostes, a Dacian king in present-day Transylvania, the Dacians' power in the Carpathian basin increased after they defeated the Celts, who previously held power in the region.

Oroles
A kingdom of Dacia also existed as early as the first half of the 2nd century BC under King Oroles. Conflicts with the Bastarnae and the Romans (112–109 BC, 74 BC), against whom they had assisted the Scordisci and Dardani, greatly weakened the resources of the Dacians.

Burebista
Burebista (Boerebista), a contemporary of Julius Caesar, ruled Geto-Dacian tribes between 82 BC and 44 BC. He thoroughly reorganised the army and attempted to raise the moral standard and obedience of the people by persuading them to cut their vines and give up drinking wine. During his reign, the Dacian Kingdom expanded to its maximum extent. The Bastarnae and Boii were conquered, and even the Greek towns of Olbia and Apollonia on the Black Sea (Pontus Euxinus) recognized Burebista's authority. In 53 BC, Caesar stated that the Dacian territory was on the eastern border of the Hercynian Forest.

Burebista suppressed the indigenous minting of coinages by four major tribal groups, adopting imported or copied Roman denarii as a monetary standard. During his reign, Burebista transferred Geto-Dacians capital from Argedava to Sarmizegetusa Regia. For at least one and a half centuries, Sarmizegetusa was the Dacians' capital and reached its peak under King Decebalus. The Dacians appeared so formidable that Caesar contemplated an expedition against them, which his death in 44 BC prevented. In the same year, Burebista was murdered, and the kingdom was divided into four (later five) parts under separate rulers.

Cotiso
One of these entities was Cotiso's state, to whom Augustus betrothed his own five-year-old daughter Julia. He is well known from the line in Horace (Occidit Daci Cotisonis agmen, Odes, III. 8. 18).

The Dacians are often mentioned under Augustus, according to whom they were compelled to recognize Roman supremacy. However they were by no means subdued, and in later times to maintain their independence they seized every opportunity to cross the frozen Danube during the winter and ravaging the Roman cities in the province of Moesia, which was under Roman occupation.

Strabo testified: "although the Getae and Daci once attained to very great power, so that they actually could send forth an expedition of two hundred thousand men, they now find themselves reduced to as few as forty thousand, and they have come close to the point of yielding obedience to the Romans, though as yet they are not absolutely submissive, because of the hopes which they base on the Germans, who are enemies to the Romans."

In fact, this occurred because Burebista's empire split after his death into four and later five smaller states, as Strabo explains, "only recently, when Augustus Caesar sent an expedition against them, the number of parts into which the empire had been divided was five, though at the time of the insurrection it had been four. Such divisions, to be sure, are only temporary and vary with the times".

Decebalus
Decebalus ruled the Dacians between AD 87 and 106. The frontiers of Decebal's Dacia were marked by the Tisa River to the west, by the trans-Carpathians to the north and by the Dniester River to the east. His name translates into "strong as ten men".

Roman conquest
When Trajan turned his attention to Dacia, it had been on the Roman agenda since before the days of Julius Caesar when a Roman army had been beaten at the Battle of Histria.

From AD 85 to 89, the Dacians under Decebalus were engaged in two wars with the Romans.

In AD 85, the Dacians had swarmed over the Danube and pillaged Moesia. In AD 87, the Roman troops sent by the Emperor Domitian against them under Cornelius Fuscus, were defeated and Cornelius Fuscus was killed by the Dacians by authority of their ruler, Diurpaneus. After this victory, Diurpaneus took the name of Decebalus, but the Romans were victorious in the Battle of Tapae in AD 88 and a truce was drawn up. The next year, AD 88, new Roman troops under Tettius Julianus, gained a significant advantage, but were obligated to make peace following the defeat of Domitian by the Marcomanni, leaving the Dacians effectively independent. Decebalus was given the status of "king client to Rome", receiving military instructors, craftsmen and money from Rome. To Rome, Domitian brought Italian peasants in Dacian clothing because he couldn't take slaves in the war.

To increase the glory of his reign, restore the finances of Rome, and end a treaty perceived as humiliating, Trajan resolved on the conquest of Dacia, the capture of the famous Treasure of Decebalus, and control over the Dacian gold mines of Transylvania. The result of his first campaign (101–102) was the siege of the Dacian capital Sarmizegethusa and the occupation of part of the country. Emperor Trajan recommenced hostilities against Dacia and, following an uncertain number of battles, and with Trajan's troops pressing towards the Dacian capital Sarmizegethusa, Decebalus once more sought terms.

Decebalus rebuilt his power over the following years and attacked Roman garrisons again in AD 105. In response Trajan again marched into Dacia, attacking the Dacian capital in the Siege of Sarmizegethusa, and razing it to the ground; the defeated Dacian king Decebalus committed suicide to avoid capture. With part of Dacia quelled as the Roman province Dacia Traiana. Trajan subsequently invaded the Parthian empire to the east. His conquests brought the Roman Empire to its greatest extent. Rome's borders in the east were governed indirectly in this period, through a system of client states, which led to less direct campaigning than in the west.

Some of the history of the war is given by Cassius Dio. Trajan erected the Column of Trajan in Rome to commemorate his victory.

Provincial history
Although the Romans conquered and destroyed the ancient Kingdom of Dacia, a large remainder of the land remained outside of Roman Imperial authority. Additionally, the conquest changed the balance of power in the region and was the catalyst for a renewed alliance of Germanic and Celtic tribes and kingdoms against the Roman Empire. However, the material advantages of the Roman Imperial system was attractive to the surviving aristocracy. Afterwards, many of the Dacians became Romanised (see also Origin of Romanians). In AD 183, war broke out in Dacia: few details are available, but it appears two future contenders for the throne of emperor Commodus, Clodius Albinus and Pescennius Niger, both distinguished themselves in the campaign.

According to Lactantius, the Roman emperor Decius (AD 249–251) had to restore Roman Dacia from the Carpo-Dacians of Zosimus "having undertaken an expedition against the Carpi, who had then possessed themselves of Dacia and Moesia".

Even so, the Germanic and Celtic kingdoms, particularly the Gothic tribes, slowly moved toward the Dacian borders, and within a generation were making assaults on the province. Ultimately, the Goths succeeded in dislodging the Romans and restoring the "independence" of Dacia following Emperor Aurelian's withdrawal, in 275.

In AD 268–269, at Naissus, Claudius II (Gothicus Maximus) obtained a decisive victory over the Goths. Since at that time Romans were still occupying Roman Dacia it is assumed that the Goths didn't cross the Danube from the Roman province. The Goths who survived their defeat didn't even attempt to escape through Dacia, but through Thrace. At the boundaries of Roman Dacia, Carpi (Free Dacians) were still strong enough to sustain five battles in eight years against the Romans from AD 301–308. Roman Dacia was left in AD 275 by the Romans, to the Carpi again, and not to the Goths. There were still Dacians in AD 336, against whom Constantine the Great fought.

The province was abandoned by Roman troops, and, according to the Breviarium historiae Romanae by Eutropius, Roman citizens "from the towns and lands of Dacia" were resettled to the interior of Moesia. Under Diocletian, c. AD 296, in order to defend the Roman border, fortifications were erected by the Romans on both banks of the Danube.

Constantinian reconquest
In 328 the emperor Constantine the Great inaugurated the Constantine's Bridge (Danube) at Sucidava, (today Celei in Romania) in hopes of reconquering Dacia, a province that had been abandoned under Aurelian. In the late winter of 332, Constantine campaigned with the Sarmatians against the Goths. The weather and lack of food cost the Goths dearly: reportedly, nearly one hundred thousand died before they submitted to Rome. In celebration of this victory Constantine took the title Gothicus Maximus and claimed the subjugated territory as the new province of Gothia. In 334, after Sarmatian commoners had overthrown their leaders, Constantine led a campaign against the tribe. He won a victory in the war and extended his control over the region, as remains of camps and fortifications in the region indicate. Constantine resettled some Sarmatian exiles as farmers in Illyrian and Roman districts, and conscripted the rest into the army. The new frontier in Dacia was along the Brazda lui Novac line supported by Castra of Hinova, Rusidava and Castra of Pietroasele. The limes passed to the north of Castra of Tirighina-Bărboși and ended at Sasyk Lagoon near the Dniester River. Constantine took the title Dacicus maximus in 336. Some Roman territories north of the Danube resisted until Justinian.

Dacia after the Romans
The Victohali, Taifals, and Thervingians are tribes mentioned for inhabiting Dacia in 350, after the Romans left. Archeological evidence suggests that Gepids were disputing Transylvania with Taifals and Tervingians. Taifals, once independent from Gothia, became federati of the Romans, from whom they obtained the right to settle in Oltenia.

In 376, the region was conquered by Huns, who kept it until the death of Attila in 453. The Gepid tribe, ruled by Ardaric, used it as their base, until in 566, when it was destroyed by the Lombards. Lombards abandoned the country and the Avars (second half of the 6th century) dominated the region for 230 years, until their kingdom was destroyed by Charlemagne in 791. At the same time, Slavic people arrived.

title: Dacia