text:
Wiktionary:Information desk/Archive 2009/January-July

=January 2009=

How do I track changes made to an entry?
I edited the etymology of "abet" and found my edit deleted within a day. How may I track the change and, ultimately, contact the person(s) who deleted the change so we can discuss that change? Thanks. craigsalvay
 * Just click on the "history" tab at the top of the entry and the changes will appear, together with (linked) information who made them. --Duncan 18:54, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Since you have an account, you can just click the tab at the top that says "watch". However, in this case I'm inclined to agree with the reversion; a direct derivation from Hebrew is an extraordinary claim which would require extraordinary evidence. -- Visviva 04:13, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with Visviva. When one is claiming a non-evident etymological connection between distant languages, such as English and any non-Germanic or non-Romance language, one is supposed to show evidence/reliable sources/ in order to achieve cogency and persuasion. Evidently this is not the case in abet. Bogorm 12:46, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Contacting the person is not exigent, editing Talk:abet should suffice, that is its purpose. Bogorm 12:48, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Locking User Pages
I don't know how to lock pages (or if it is even possible by a non-administator) and I would request to have my User Page;User:Dictionman locked from editting from any other user (exept me and the administrators) from editting my profile, as an anonymous user continues to vandalize my User page. --Dictionman 01:15, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Page protection is a sysop only function. Since there has only been one instance of vandalism, I suggest you leave it unless if becomes a trend.  There is no way (that I'm aware of, anyway) to allow exceptions, so if I were to protect your page, you wouldn't be able to edit it, which would obviously be a hassle.  However, if you have further problems, by all means contact any admin, and they can protect it for you.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:14, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Hang on a sec Atelaes, if this happens again can't you get a indefinite edit block for the page (for unregistered users only)? 50 Xylophone Players talk 15:47, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

What is the function of allowing any user to edit another users profile? Isn't a profile unique information solely about the user, as in name, sex, hobbies, etc.? BadKitty 15:09, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

 * No one is supposed to edit another’s user profile. However, if a user can edit his own, then anyone else can do it, too. If we protect the user page so that no one else can edit it, then the user himself cannot edit it. It is possible to give a partial protection so that unregistered anons can’t edit it, but anyone who has a registered username will still be able to. —Stephen 16:46, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Diacritics and pronunciation for Spanish and Tagalog?
Is there an existing appendix explaining how the diacritics on Sp and Phil. language words work? I've searched around; if there is, it does a good job at eluding me. :P

What I plan is to have diacritic versions of a Philippine word to serve as its pronunciation. An entry would look like this (prospective pronunciation for bayanihan):

''===Pronunciation=== * bayaníhan''

There are two other diacritics, which makes them á, à, and â. Basically, these three are all that's needed to pronounce Tagalog words; other pronunciation info could be looked into at an upcoming About Tagalog. Spanish words here don't do this, so I don't know if it's a good idea. I'm hoping for:

''===Pronunciation=== * { { Tagalog diacritic } } bayaníhan'' -- new tag!

The IPA is to still be universal, while the latter is specifically for Tagalog and Spanish.

Amicably, Icqgirl 11:03, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Three things:
 * You've used an apostrophe instead of a stress mark. A primary stress mark in IPA is added using, which is a character available under the "IPA" section of the Edittools, which is visible below any edit window.  It has a drop-down menu allowing you to select from several scripts and character sets.  You can probably find the various diacritical characters you're looking for there under Latin/Roman.
 * Are you sure the IPA is correct that you've given? The  in IPA is a vowel.  Based on the Tagalog article at Wikipedia, I'm assuming that the letter y is pronounced  in Tagalog.
 * For Tagalog, I assume you're intending to add a version marked with a diacritical to serve as a simplified pronunciation for people who already know the basic phonemes. Our Italian entries are now doing this, because that's how Italian dictionaries mark the stress.  It should not require a template, unless you mean creating a template that simply identifies that this is what the diacritical version represents, which would be a good idea.  However, I'm really not sure what it is you're proposing to add for the Spanish words.  The Spanish words have their accents in the standard written forms anyway, so there would be no reason to duplicate this..
 * --EncycloPetey 18:58, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Sorry for the IPA entries; I'm still learning the ropes. I'll correct them. Thanks for pointing my mistakes out. It does sound like is the character.
 * You hit the mark. Tagalog dictionaries provide the simplest way to note stress, and I want to copy that here as it seems to be most suitable for the language, and easier to read for those who have a grasp of its pronunciation. A template is called for, to serve as a link explaining how the marks work, for identification, and organization (listing down "marked" words in a category somewhere). What do you think would be a suitable name? Is tl-pron fine?
 * Right, Spanish words do use the stress marks already. Silly me.
 * Thanks again, EP.

Icqgirl 17:41, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

 * The name {tl-pron} is the expected name for a template used to make the inflection line of a Tagalog pronoun. I recommend {tl-stress} instead, since that is (after all) what the template is really designed to show. --EncycloPetey 19:57, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Hey EP, I found your entry on buwan. Below the ==Noun== code there's the word with a diacritic. It seems more convenient to do such to all Tagalog words instead than having to try start and implement a new template (tl stress) for it. What do you think? It would just have to be noted that diacritics are not used in everyday writing. Icqgirl 10:10, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

 * It's been decided that ===Alternate forms=== be used. --Icqgirl 07:40, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Words of the year ... .some random data
The transparent hoax that is the "Global Language Monitor" was making the rounds of news shows a little while back with the words of the year for 2008. It's a great concept, somewhat weakened in the execution by the fact that the words in question were obviously cherry-picked to entertain the media. (I defy anyone to come up with a plausible algorithm and data set that yields "greenwashing" as a keyword for 2008.)

Anyway, just for fun I ran Antconc over the last two years of the New York Times to find the words that were most distinctively frequent in that publication in 2008 as opposed to 2007. I thought folks might be interested in the results; at least they show what words have been salient in the (US) public discourse lately. The lowercase word forms with a log-likelihood keyness exceeding 1000 were:
 * 1) crisis
 * 2) bailout
 * 3) economy
 * 4) financial
 * 5) campaign
 * 6) banks
 * 7) recession
 * 8) economic
 * 9) voters
 * 10) stimulus
 * 11) prices
 * 12) election

(in that order). No surprises there... The top 10 uppercase words were Obama, McCain, Palin, Barack, Clinton, Paterson, Olympic, Favre, Olympics and Beijing. No scientific validity is claimed for any of this, though I do note that this list is at least based on, you know, data, rather than some guy in Texas spinning around in his chair.

BTW, I'm extremely impressed with Antconc's performance here -- tasked with processing two corpora of more than 25 million words each, it did not hiccup or crash, though it did take about an hour to complete the task. Definitely the best free desktop concordancer you're likely to find. -- Visviva 07:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Is there a SUL Box template as in en.wiki?
Is there something like w:en:Template:SUL Box here in english wiktionary? --Wallach2008 20:38, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Don't think so, just put on your userpage. Conrad.Irwin 20:56, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The SUL Box looks like a particularly useful template. We ought to consider having it here. --EncycloPetey 21:08, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
 * See WT:UBV.—msh210 ℠  21:14, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Is there something like this for declension? 50 Xylophone Players talk 15:28, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

 * You mean, like a "Category: Language_name words lacking inflection information"? I don't think so, no. Inflection information is a lot less standard across languages than gender; I think we'd only want this sort of category for languages where we have the infrastructure for editors to add that inflection information (fairly) easily. —Ruakh TALK 19:44, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

 * You can use, where XX is the language code. It works well with Russian, possibly also with Armenian, Finnish and Hungarian (but I’m only sure of the case with Russian). —Stephen 19:50, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks Stephen. 50 Xylophone Players talk 19:52, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That (what Ruakh said) said, you can, if you foresee lots of use for it, invent a language-specific category for the language of your choosing, e.g. Category:Hebrew requests for verb conjugation table, categorize that category into Category:Requests (Hebrew) (e.g.), and add the category to entries (manually or, if there's some need for it, via a template). But exists, its categories are watched, and it should do the trick. Note incidentally the existence of, but that's meant for requesting a specific form, not a whole table.—msh210  ℠  20:25, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Extra chars in editTools
Is it possible to add a custom menu item in the editTools drop-down menu, like on WP. I tried "window.charinsertCustom" in monobook.js without success. Some words in Old Norse has a "ǫ", and I always forget where I used it last time. So i would like to add an item for Old Norse to the list. – Leo Laursen – (talk · contribs) 17:29, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You can create a custom list of items by creating a User:Your Name/edittools file. You can look at mine as an example.  You also have to adjust your monobook, but I don't recall pecisely how.  However, User:Conrad.Irwin should know, since he set up this feature. --EncycloPetey 02:12, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Abrasion/Attrition in geographic erosion - what is the difference?
How would you describe the distinction between Abrasion/Attrition in geographic erosion?
 * I think this example using a river sums it up: With abrasion the river uses its load to wear away its beds and banks (through friction), making itself deeper and wider. With attrition, however, the load is wearing itself away. 50 Xylophone Players talk 01:34, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Editing with a slow connection
I am editing with a slow connection at the moment, is there a way I can stop all the characters and templates of various languages from loading each time I edit a page? It is terribly slow for me on this connection, and annoying to wait whilst one line of useless random letters after another unfolds. Kaixinguo 23:15, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, no. I have had the same problem from some computers, and agree that it has become a problem.  However, there has been a tendency over the past few years to add everything that anyone would ever want to insert into the Edittools.  The Grease Pit would be a better place to raise this issue, since it is a technical one. --EncycloPetey 02:07, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Spiral Walkway
I really need to know what a spiral walk way is called usually used at sporting stadiums to let alot of people leave quickly. I thought it was called a vomitron but clearly not. Can someone please help me??

 * I imagine you're thinking of the word vomitorium:, which does fit, but is liable to be misunderstood. —Ruakh TALK 02:29, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

IPA?
At the wikipedia article Knowth I'd like to add the IPA pronounciation. I'm told the pronounciation is "Like the Engish word "now" with a 'th' on the end, more or less." Could someone put that in IPA for me, please? RJFJR 16:14, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

 * . —Ruakh TALK 16:18, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Spelling
spelling for 'challis' ? or, as in 'cup of Christ"

 * See chalice. —Stephen 18:26, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

License question: including wiktionary entries in a shareware product
I would like to include wiktionary entries in a shareware product but was wondering about the licensing issues.

Is this the best forum to discuss this? If so I will expand my queries anon. If not could someone please point me to the best place?

 * See Copyrights. In principle there should be no problem, but any derivative work must also be GFDL-licensed (this is some seriously retarded legalistic crap IMO).  So it probably depends on exactly how you want to use the entries -- just a verbatim inclusion with the GFDL attached should be no problem, but if you're going to reformat or rewrite them in some way, that would also need to be released under the GFDL.  Anyway, IANAL. -- Visviva 06:46, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks. As I want to display it in desktop software I want to convert it (to RTF so I can use a RichEdit control), and probably edit it down. So I think rather than chase whoever up for definitive legal judgement I'll just do it (and credit Wiktionary and provide the RTF (under the GFDL as you say) on the web somewhere as I interpret the GFDL).

founder/floundering
excellent usage note, great help with something/a topic that genuinely has been confusing to me for the longest time, thank you so much!!

[See ? If I have something positive to say per any observation of mine, I will do so too! Winking smiley

[Though I still not understand why instead of providing a clear and concise and conscript explanation so many definitions opt for an assembly of synonyms instead, isn't the synonym section intended for that ? Would this be something that would be worth while to be discussed in the beer parlor?I definitely think it is something that defines in its own right the accessibility and usability of the English wictionary say for non-native speakers; English bein' the like de facto world language,  thus I'd foresee that the English version will become the most extensive and exhaustiv one among the wictionaries,  already sheerly by the volume of possible contributors [say 3,000,000,000 or so], and to be fair to that part  of the users and contributors, it should also take into account  this very majority  constituted by non-native users, among the population  able to use English, in its [Wiktionary's] construction and set up!

[am I mistaken, or is it easier for educated native speakers to glean the meaning of a definition from a group of synonyms? This is a sincere question, I would assume that say, a teenager in a steep learning curve in matters acquiring new vocabulary would also benefit from an explanation- style definition, as in my experience non-native speakers do, but how that looks for native speakers with an already well established and expensive vocabulary, I just don't know for sure, perhaps synonyms for such users are a convenient shortcut, on the other hand, even when in the beginning asking for some adaption time, I would assume that the latter population of users might be as well served by explanation- style definitions as by synonym- based ones; as there isnt anybody serious and engaged enough available in my direct physical surroundings to ask, thank you so much in advance for your invaluable feedback Wiktionarian community!!

Yes, this is da [please allow me that liberty with the definite article for just once in this essay smiley] part of me that holds an educational degree speaking, and as such, users and contributors with such a  background should only be considered and constitute an enrichment for the wictionary community in my view! [but read about W. M. f. and you will find very similar things being said like that with every new surge of new users and contributors, in their experience the various projects only benefit and progress, and to me such makes sense, apart from that they presented this as a fact, which they mentioned in my impression to convince the "oldbies" about the advantages of new blood coming in, despite the initial perceived disturbances and training/guiding/help effort required]

Thank you so much for reading till here!!!--史凡 17:51, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

New entry blues
I found the new entry templates hard to comprehend, and the tutorials and "help" to be of very little such. Anyway, I managed to create a new entry for a verb. The word is crackelate.

1)I don't agree with the automatically generated "present participle" and "simple past and past participle". How can I edit/modify these forms?

2)My main entry seems to have auto generated past tenses, which are covered in my main entry, but is now listed in the auto generated section, as non existing entries. How can I make these "not yet written" tenses/entries point at my original posting?

Rkov 20:42, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

 * I’m assuming gave you something like:
 * to crackelate (third-person singular simple present crackelates, present participle crackelateing, simple past and past participle crackelateed)
 * This can be solved by explicitly stating the verb’s entire conjugation, expressed in wikicode thus:
 * Which renders:
 * to crackelate (third-person singular simple present crackelates, present participle crackelating, simple past and past participle crackelated)
 * I don’t really understand your second quæstion / point. Nota WT:ELE and that most of the information about a word is given at its lemma; the inflexions are also given entries, but they tend to be stubs with purely grammatical definitions. The non-infinitive forms of would be defined as:
 * — “Third-person singular simple present indicative form of crackelate.”
 * — “Present participle of crackelate.”
 * — “Simple past tense and past participle of crackelate.”
 * Unfortunately, your original entry was deleted as a præsumed protologism. (All the words that Wiktionary includes, at least in principle, need to satisfy our criteria for inclusion — which undefined:, admittedly, prima facie does not do.) I have since looked for some citations to back up this word. It’s pretty rare, but I managed to find about four; I say about four because only two are clearly of a verb use, whilst one seems to be of an adjective which only looks like a verb form, and another is of a plural nominalisation . I’m not sure whether so little evidence would be enough to satisfy the criteria for inclusion; give it a shot — maybe the closely-related adjective and noun will be accepted in pursuance of the term’s verification. †  ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 19:38, 11 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, your original entry was deleted as a præsumed protologism. (All the words that Wiktionary includes, at least in principle, need to satisfy our criteria for inclusion — which undefined:, admittedly, prima facie does not do.) I have since looked for some citations to back up this word. It’s pretty rare, but I managed to find about four; I say about four because only two are clearly of a verb use, whilst one seems to be of an adjective which only looks like a verb form, and another is of a plural nominalisation . I’m not sure whether so little evidence would be enough to satisfy the criteria for inclusion; give it a shot — maybe the closely-related adjective and noun will be accepted in pursuance of the term’s verification. †  ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 19:38, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

Question
What is it called when you swop the first letter of two words.

 * A spoonerism. -- Visviva 08:35, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Changing the "Category" of a word
I added a Spanish noun, but the "category" had defaulted to "English" and I don't know how to change it...

 * What Spanish noun are you speaking of? We have to see how you did it before we can tell you what’s happening. —Stephen 16:17, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The words were diablura: and travesura:. The problem was that you used the English noun template, instead of one of the Spanish noun templates.  The prefix (en- or es-) names the language of the template you are using.  For Spanish nouns, we currently use the templates  and . --EncycloPetey 16:24, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Way to fetch just the source text of a page
I'm using Wiktionary as part of a dictionary program, but I'm hesitant that fetching an entire HTML page for every search is wasteful. Is then any way (like a PHP title=title&action=getSource) to fetch only the plaintext source of an article? Thanks --Estemi 23:55, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
 * http://en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?action=raw&title=something . However, if you are doing anything serious, it's recommend that you download the XML dumps so that you don't hammer our servers. You may also be interested in the API if you are doing more than just the entry text. Conrad.Irwin 00:01, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Estemi 00:44, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

hungarian wiktionary
The Hungarian wiktionary are 100000 articles. I ask one of the admistrators to transfer it in the 10000+ the Hungarian wiktionary at the wiktionary.org. Thank you! Hi, Einstein2 from the Hungarian wiktionary.

WOTD by e-mail
Hi all. Do we yet have a function that automatically sends Wiktionary’s Words of the Day to subscribers’ e-mail accounts? If we don’t, how feasible would it be to create one? †  ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 15:58, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Retitle?
Is retitle a real English word? There is an entry, but I think that it is a mistranslation from another language. I did not find the word in The OED, Miriam Webster, or Chambers.

Hi Bob & Tom. Teri here. First-time caller. .... Wait .. uh ..

Religion in the Middle East
I'd love some help with what I am trying to do. I am currently reading a book titled "The Final Move Beyond Iraq" (The Final solutions while the world sleeps) by Mike Evans.

What I want to do is create a chart mapping who is who in this book. ie

- Mahmoud Ahmadinejad - president of Iran -Isser Harel         -  founder of Mossad, Isreal's intelligence agency Moshe Ya'alon -      -  retired Lt. General Isreal Defence Forces

I want to create a chart document which shows & tells me which religeous group inhabits which areas in the middle east, who the respective leaders are.... I need something to use a learning aid that is visual ... maybe even color coded, to learn and remember who all the 'players' are. I can't pronounce the names of the people and towns yet along remember them, so I'm trying to create a learning board for me. I'd want to see current boundaries, past boundaries, proposed etc. I guess I need an "ABC's" of the middle east et al. Can anyone help? It should probably resemble a family tree in some ways. I just gotta have a visual aid or I'll never keep all this data in my brain cells that are loosing connective pathways at a rapid speed.

Molto gracia!

 * See Religion in the Middle East. —Stephen 21:10, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

slumlord
the word slumlord. i feel it is not right. i believe a slumlord is someone who rents out bad broken down or poor condition housing. but slumlord stats bad too. but why does it mean he is a bad landlord?

i know a good slumlord. he gets screwed on his rent all the time and never kicks out his tenants always makes excuses for them how they are down on there luck. so why should he be generlized as a bad landlord or slum lord. what if i owned a big beautiful house and never did anything for my tenants? am i a slumlord or a bad landlord?

 * We just describe how people use words, which certainly can be unfair. DCDuring TALK 17:45, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

'Parthian shots' and 'parting shots'
Parthian shots - were made off horseback, using arrows, over the hindquarters, at the enemy, from which they were making distance between. Parting shots - in conversation is a usually aggressive comment made at the 'enemy' when leaving them or the subject at hand, of which there was some disagreement.

What's the difference? Are they related somehow?

P.S. Sorry about my definitions. But I didn't have an effective dictionary close handy.

 * parting shot probably derives from Parthian shot and they have similar meanings. A parting shot is a figure of speech for the heated last word in a testy argument; a Parthian shot is used literally to refer to the tactics of Parthian mounted archers, who would fire a salvo of arrows at the enemy, then move quickly out of range. —Stephen 17:36, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Which dump contains the actual words and definitions?
This is my first post so forgive me if I am not doing this correctly. I am a newbie working with a developer to assemble a list of plural forms for a database we're building. We downloaded a dump only to find that the words and definitions were not contained in the tables. Which dump has the words, definitions, synonyms etc...?

Is it one of the dumps on this page? http://download.wikimedia.org/enwiktionary/20081214/
 * More recent is one of the ones on http://download.wikimedia.org/enwiktionary/20090203/, and he one that's every entry, including definitions, is pages-articles (I think).—msh210  ℠  17:59, 3 March 2009 (UTC)

Non-English definitions
In geled, I gave the definition rank and specified the sense (The lines or rows of people in an organization). An editor changed the text to (A line or row of people, mostly about soldiers). That makes it less clear what sense is referenced, but may be better as a definition. What is the best practice for specifying senses in foreign language entries? – Leo Laursen – (talk · contribs) 10:48, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

 * If the modification is correct, and this word is used mostly in reference to soldiers, I would personally lean toward one of these:
 * ranks (the lines or rows of people in an organization)
 * The ranks of an organization, especially a military one
 * If the word is distinct enough in meaning that an English gloss or glosses are not sufficient, then there isn't really any getting around having a real definition IMO.
 * Complicating the matter, I have no idea why that sense is at rank rather than ranks; it's even defined as plural. Does the same situation apply to the Danish word, or is geled normally used in the singular?  -- Visviva 11:35, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

 * I prefer something slightly more gloss-y:
 * ranks (rows of people)
 * ranks (of an organisation, hierarchy etc.)
 * But this probably just demonstrates that we don't have a clear consensus on this sort of thing yet :) Ƿidsiþ 11:40, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

 * "Geled" is usually translated as rank, but the basic meaning is a disciplined line of people, as in a military formation. Conversely rank is usually translated to rang. The definition from sproget.da is:
 * two or more persons, often soldiers, standing side by side, shoulder by shoulder
 * things placed side by side in a row
 * In the sense, rising in ranks (Danish: stige i geledderne) it is usually used in plural, but basically the connotation is formation rather than ranking. – Leo Laursen – (talk · contribs) 12:29, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

twisted chromesones
could you please explain  whast  this is  and  the  treatments ,. thank you

alcohol
I have tried to add "alcohol" to the etymology scriptorium but I cant seem to make it work. could someone help?J8079s 23:38, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Done. That is a little tricky.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 23:48, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

query by an anon
is there a site that can help me with in better american grammar

I am so unhappy.
I am very sad. I joined Wiktionary in the hope of finding some meaning and significance in my life. Sadly, this has not happened. No matter how many entries I make, I am still unhappy. I just want to be loved :-(

 * I knew I had a twin somewhere. Equinox ◑ 23:36, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I'm trying to find a template to enter a "missing" work in the dictionary. Can someone tell me how to do thiss?

verify word Abroholos?
There is a WP article Abroholos that says it is a Brazilian word meaning squall (but it isn't clear to me if this is the plural). I tried to check the Portugese wiktionary (which is hard because I don't speak any Portugese but I'm assuming that was the search button I clicked). Any suggestions on how I'd go about proving or disproving this as a name? (And determining if this is the Plural since it ends in S.) It might be a local term, the WP article isn't great which is why I'd like to clean it up. Thank you. RJFJR 15:53, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Abroholos squall, more properly the Abrolhos squall. Abrolhos in Portuguese is a plural, from the archipelago of that name which was discovered by Amerigo Vespucci, who is said to have commented upon seeing the islands: "abre os olhos" (keep your eyes open). In Portuguese, when it means squall (uma borrasca), it’s lowercased: os abrolhos. —Stephen 14:18, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Thank you. RJFJR 20:48, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Inflection data / algorithm
I'm trying to put together a list of English nouns and their plurals. I thought Wiktionary's data would be a good place to start with this. However, after browsing through the single, almost-a-gigabyte (!) XML file, I've found that most nouns just use the 'en-noun' template and their plural is not in the article. I'm guessing it is either in a table outside of the article space, or it is calculated by a rule/regex-based algorithm. Is this table or algorithm available?

Thanks! Duckwizard 17:37, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Edit: I see now that nouns of various pluralization forms have the form indicated in the template definition. I think I can use this to construct my 'master noun list' (although if such a list already exists, that would sure be nice...) Duckwizard 17:53, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Some caution is required. Many uses of the en-noun template with the argument "-", meaning uncountable, are not correct. Many exceptional cases exist (non-English plurals eg octopus:, mass nouns, plural-only, singular-only, dual eyeglasses:). If your algorithm is supposed to be as good as a dictionary, it will need a fairly big look-up table. Most humans are not nearly as good as a dictionary. DCDuring TALK 18:27, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

the word loont
I am extracting information from a record dated 1823 it is a proprietor and next to the last name is the word loont, what does this word mean? These are Great Britain records. Thank You for your help.

hedgefund explanation

Why do you use British spellings?
Could I ask why you use British spellings (e.g., "realisation" and "Beer Parlour")? Just by sheer numbers, most users are probably in the US.
 * Actually the main entry is at realization. I think the reason ‘beer parlour’ was used is that the thing was thought to be more of a British phenomenon.  But in general we have no bias in either direction, and don't forget that there are also many forms of English besides those of just the US and the UK.  Ƿidsiþ 09:58, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Whoever adds a definition uses the spelling that he/she finds most natural. We seem to have more editors that use British rather than US English. It is considered bad form to change the original spelling. SemperBlotto 10:01, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

 * In fact, by the actual numbers, only 17-34% of the users of the English Wiktionary are in the US. (Figures from Alexa, they don't give the cross-tabs. Users in the US account for 17% of all traffic, and 50% of the traffic is to English. 17% assumes that the proportion of users in the US going to English is the same as for other wikts, 34% assumes that users in the US only use the en.wikt. So a good guess for usage of the en.wikt might be about 1/4 in the US, 3/4 from elsewhere. In any case, US users of the English wiktionary do not exceed 34% ;-) If one was to go by the user base, UK/Commonwealth spellings would be preferred. Robert Ullmann 11:51, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Dude, you are so cheating. :-P  According to that page, most of the user-base is from non-English-speaking countries. There are probably more users from the U.S. than from all other English-speaking countries put together. (I say "probably" because 13% of the user-base is from "other", which makes it hard to be totally sure.) And that's even counting India and Canada as English-speaking countries with U.K. spellings, which is only partly true; if we leave them out (treating them as neutral parties), the U.S. probably outstrips U.K.-spelling countries by a factor of about 3 to 1. —Ruakh TALK 15:21, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

 * You've left out Australia & New Zealand. :p --Tyranny Sue 05:05, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Why not ? --Elkaar 12:06, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

why does the pronunciation not play automatically?
Why can't the pronunciation play automatically on wikitionary as on awww.answers.com when we click the sound (Blowhorn) icon. Why is it in ogg format and why does it ask us to save the file first... (saving is ok but should be optional)? Am I asking this at the right place?

69.14.222.205 01:35, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Hello. This depends on your Web browser configuration. Your browser probably isn't set up to play ogg files, so it considers them to be "unknown" data files and tries to save them to disk instead. Have a look at your browser's documentation; you can probably configure it to play them automatically. Equinox ◑ 01:40, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

 * The free, open Ogg format was chosen to avoid limits on the availability of software to play the sound files. Such software is rarely included in commercial operating systems like Mac OS and Windows.  You need an Ogg plugin, or an Ogg codec for Quicktime or for WiMP.   Click the “help” link next to the speaker icon for directions. —Michael Z. 2009-04-06 16:02 z

 * I think that what he is saying is that, even with the right plugins, you don't just get the sound of the word. A new mediaplayer window opens (after a short pause), the sound plays, and you are left with the window to deal with. I never use the system. SemperBlotto 16:06, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

 * It shouldn't open a new window if you have an appropriate browser plugin. In Safari/Mac, with the XiphQT codec installed, the player fills the browser window, but then the browser's back button restores the entry view.  Although it would be slicker if it just played the sound, this works quite smoothly and gives you a controller bar.  But I never use it either. —Michael Z. 2009-04-07 05:33 z

The prepositions/adpositions must be given with each verb or noun
I want to get the adposition used with verbs e.g. attentive to their needs, separately from its neighbors and as used with nouns a thirst for revenge, an amendment to the constitution. But many verb definitions and noun definitions does not include this information. This is very important for people with English as a foreign/second language. Is there a page on wiki projects which has this information?69.14.222.205 02:29, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

 * I agree, this is very important, but it has not yet received much attention, whether in English or any of the other languages. —Stephen 03:16, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Stephen, do you know any admin or editor so that we can request them to create a robot or make a rule about entering this all the time. another example is worthy 'of' praise.. Just telling the meaning of worthy does not let a person know about what is the adposition to use with it ('of' in this case). 207.148.219.146 13:05, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that this is vital to foreign learners of English, but not only of English. One should also mention at neugierig that this adjective is used only with auf, sich erinnern with genitive or an and so on. In Wikiwörterbuch the editors have not bothered to include it either... The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 16:15, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

What's the best way to present this to the reader? It's essentially usage information. But I think it could be presented either as a separate usage note, or by providing an example quotation, or as a phrase in the definition, or in a structured label in the definition. Is there any reason to structure this with templates, or collect it in categories? —Michael Z. 2009-04-06 16:25 z
 * We seem to be having this conversation already in the Beer Parlour, but see die, verb sense 1. This was how I tried it last time the issue came up, using subsenses.  I quite like it but not everyone does.  Ƿidsiþ 16:27, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * That's not bad, but they aren't dictionary subsenses. (But since we don't officially condone subsenses, this may be an acceptable use for sub-lists – perhaps they should be bulleted instead of numbered).  Adding bulleted examples under Usage notes might fit our framework better. —Michael Z. 2009-04-06 18:17 z

Is there a robot for this?
Is there a robot which can collect noun definitions where the plural of a word is not mentioned. I hate entries of nouns where the plural is not given.69.14.222.205 02:29, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Adding a category
The category: 'English words suffixed with -age' should (I think) be added to
 * shortage
 * foliage

I'd be happy to be taught how to do this. Thanks. :) --Tyranny Sue 05:01, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

 * We already have Category:English words suffixed with -age. All you have to do is add at the bottom of a page such as shortage. —Stephen 12:16, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Or you can do it like this - but it only applies here, what Stephen showed you works generally. --Duncan 16:36, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Category for backformations or innovations?
I'm currently working on the word shat (past tense of 'shit') and am wondering do we have a category for backformations or innovations or otherwise non-etymological verb tenses? Or perhaps even a category for forms that first appeared, say for example, in the early 18c? Any of these would be useful. Thanks very much :) --Tyranny Sue 06:04, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

 * I think if you wanted to make a project of determining backformations, then a Category:Backformations might be reasonable. —Stephen 12:11, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Widespread (& accepted by many) (mis)pronunciations of commonly used non-English words (e.g. 'paella', 'chorizo')
Just wondering if it's part of the Wiktionary project to document widespread pronunciations no matter what. As in, say a non-English word is being widely used (I'm thinking specifically at the moment of 'paella' and 'chorizo') and also widely mispronounced (in the English-speaking world, perhaps less so in the USA). Would it not be worth noting that mispronunciation down? (For 2 reasons: and
 * 1. To show, e.g. Spanish-speakers, what the hell these English-speakers are trying to mean?
 * 2. To try to show non-native speakers how it shouldn't be pronounced. (Or would that be regarded as overly prescriptive?)

Thanks--Tyranny Sue 09:53, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

 * We're mainly a documentary dictionary. If paella is pronounced a certain way in the USA, then that is the US pronunciation, even if it would be a vulgar mispronunciation in Spanish.  If you want to know how it's pronounced in Spanish, then see paella. —Michael Z. 2009-04-07 10:17 z

 * On the other hand, with the English (mis)pronunciation is documented, I would want to know if that anglicized version is a different, vulgar word when head by a native speaker. Maybe in usage notes? DAVilla 01:57, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Dubious. Why shouldn't every English word which sounds like a vulgarity in another language be so noted, or every word in every language crossed with every other language?  Just vulgarities, or insults too?  The majority of English words have been borrowed within the last 2,000 years – so even if we restricted this to direct borrowings, where would we draw the cutoff?  We aren't a multilingual pronunciation dictionary which indexes terms by their pronunciation (is there such a thing?), so it's not in our mandate to do this as a rule.

 * So is there something you're trying to say about the way paella is pronounced in North America? I've only ever heard /pa'jeja/, /tʃo'rizoʊ/ in Canada.  Did I shock my server in that Cuban restaurant? —Michael Z. 2009-04-14 05:14 z

using Template:t with multiple scripts
I was trying to combine the translations of aunt for Mandarin and Serbian but the documentation at doesn't say how to do so. I got as far as this:

 * Mandarin:, 姑媽 / 姑妈, 姑姑, 姑母;  ;  , 嬸母 / 婶母, 嬸嬸 / 婶婶;  , 姨媽 / 姨妈, , 姨母;  舅母, 舅媽 / 舅妈, 妗母,
 * Serbian: тетка / tetka ; ујна / ujna, стрина / strina

The Serbian is okay because it only uses links, but the Mandarin using obviously doesn't look right. Could someone show me how to correct it?

Also, is it correct to use in this manner? The documentation seems to indicate that is more appropriate, but that doesn't look ideal either. DAVilla 01:53, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

 * There must be other methods but since I didn't find or didn't understand, I created new ones:
 * produces: trad., simpl. (pinyin: Zhōngguó)
 * produces:
 * Anatoli 02:28, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Sigh. You are making it so hard on yourself. Just don't try to put "/" in anywhere, use the template one at a time. ("/" doesn't mean anything; having any meaning requires tagging things somehow)
 * Don't bother with xs=. That is placed (and removed) by Tbot as an optimization.
 * (why do you have everything tagged for simplified script? trad should be Hant, t/s should be Hani)
 * Like this: (removing a lot of stuff where you are simply trying way too hard)
 * Mandarin:
 * , 姑媽  姑妈, 姑姑, 姑母
 * , 嬸母  婶母,  嬸嬸  婶婶
 * , 姨媽  姨妈,, 姨母
 * 舅母, 舅媽  舅妈, 妗母,
 * (some of those still need Hans->Hani, and it might be better to leave off the tr= for the tra in tra/sim pairs; did that) I did create and  to abstract those abbreviations (they need a bit of CSS too), as used in . They probably should follow the {t} template, but we can look at that later.
 * Please remove the other templates that you created and tag them with {delete}, as they don't generate the links to zh.wikt and aren't compatible with several other things.
 * And note the way Cyrillic and Roman script are handled in other entries. (There is an example in WT:ELE; and there has been some discussion of improving it, but for now, this is the way it is.) Robert Ullmann 12:35, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * And note the way Cyrillic and Roman script are handled in other entries. (There is an example in WT:ELE; and there has been some discussion of improving it, but for now, this is the way it is.) Robert Ullmann 12:35, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

 * You're right, it's pretty hard to do when you're not sure how. I don't see any documentation about this at either About Mandarin (which doesn't exist) or About Chinese. Thanks for clarifying because it is pretty simple after all. I wasn't trying to add xs=Mandarin by the way. I'd simply left those in when merging the two lines.
 * In contrast to and  which you created, I thought Acai had been using slashes as in:
 * Mandarin:
 * , 姑媽 / 姑妈, 姑姑, 姑母
 * , 嬸母 / 婶母, 嬸嬸 / 婶婶
 * , 姨媽 / 姨妈,, 姨母
 * 舅母, 舅媽 / 舅妈, 妗母,
 * I sure would like to see that Serbian example in ELE changed some day. For now I think it's best to have it removed. DAVilla 21:48, 15 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I sure would like to see that Serbian example in ELE changed some day. For now I think it's best to have it removed. DAVilla 21:48, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Reference Tags
Hi, how can i use the ref, /ref tags and the reflist template? When i used the above (as is done in wikipedia), i get an error message that says that references/ does not exist. How are references/ and reflist related? Psoup 08:10, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

 * You can use the ref and /ref tags, but there is no "reflist" template. Under the References section, one line should read or a space as first parameter , interprets it as I intend, by replacing   with a blank or space, whereas template:arc, when presented with the same, does not, but rather uses the brackets called for by its  ? [/?oldid=6820739 Here's the evidence.]    —msh210  ℠  19:52, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

 * That's because uses l=</tt> (the lowercase L) rather than <tt>1=</tt> (the Hindu-Arabic numeral א). (But depending on your font, you may not be able to see the difference.) —Ruakh <i >TALK</i > 20:06, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Ah! Thanks much.   —msh210  ℠  20:26, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Is It True???
I just watched the Science Channel this morning. The narrator (Wil Lyman) said that YOU CAN NOT wear deoderant while on a nuclear submarine???

Is that TRUE??? I had never heard of such a thing!!!

 * Hi. This is a dictionary. For information on what that means, please see dictionary. —Ruakh <i >TALK</i > 16:02, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

 * But to answer your question, on a sub you can use roll-ons but not aerosols. You don’t really need roll-ons, because the air is permeated with motor oil. —Stephen 03:28, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

How to add a language to the request by language page?
Hi, I'd like to request that the following Setswana words be defined on Wiktionary, but Setswana is not currently amongst the list of languages.

 * Mma (title, like Mrs)
 * Rra (title, like Mr)
 * dumela (greeting)

Thanks!--Tyranny Sue 05:47, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * We use the name Tswana, rather than Setswana. We have an entire Category:Tswana language. --EncycloPetey 05:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Hmm, it doesn't show up at Category:Requested_entries_by_language, which is one of the places I looked for it (as well as Setswana). Perhaps a link from Setswana to Category:Tswana language would help people, since there's no Setswana category.--Tyranny Sue 06:21, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * That could be done under a "See also" section. And no, not all of our languages have requests pages.  In general, a page is created when requests appear for that language, or when someone takes the initiative to do so.  Usually this is also because we have had someone edit here who knew the languagea dn began editing in it.  In this case, it looks like all the Tswana entries were added by someone not familiar wth the language, but who had found a short word list.  We don't have many people editing in sub-Saharan languages; I can only think of three such peple offhand.  --EncycloPetey 14:13, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I put the preamble to Wiktionary:Requested entries:Tswana which links it to the appropriate categories. --Duncan 19:32, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Selfrefs
In order to make it easier for users to quickly find Wiktionary formatting guidelines, it would be great to have a link like the selfref one at etymology on other similar pages (e.g. quote, reference, citation, quotation, format, layout). However, I've just been told that I shouldn't add the selfref template in the namespace (following the example at etymology) to the above pages, but was not told why, or where it could be added, or given any links to anywhere that might explain this. Could someone please tell me why? Thanks for anything enlightening. --Tyranny Sue 06:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Or another way of doing this might be adding a permanent link to the Wiktionary layout guide page at the top of every Wiktionary page? However, a more targeted link would still be useful. Perhaps at the bottom of entries, so as not to seem like any kind of intrusion into the definition.--Tyranny Sue 06:25, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * This is a good idea — it’s just the kind of hook one needs when he forgets the name of a policy page in the <tt>Wiktionary:</tt> namespace. Furthermore, the format used atop etymology: seems perfect to me. I don’t see why this ought not to be done. <font style="color:darkred">†  ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 11:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * This becomes visual clutter in places that one person thinks others might look for assistance. Why would someone look up the definition of "layout" expecting to find help?  We have our help pages linked via the main page.  We've set up names for our style guides so that they parallel the titles of sections.  I could see keeping the  on the entry for etymology, but only because it is exactly the same as a section header we have. Introducing additional style points all over the main namespace is a bad idea, IMHO. --EncycloPetey 14:08, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * To answer your question above, because it's intuitive. Why not look up 'layout' expecting to find help? I really don't see anything unbelievable about it and am surprised that anyone would.
 * Second reason: because of the example set by etymology--Tyranny Sue 15:38, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Because our policy page is called Wiktionary:Entry layout explained; mentioning that atop layout: (and possibly format:) is more intuitive than if it were atop entry: or explained:. This affects very few pages, and is not obtrusive even for those it does affect. Though I no longer need these hooks to remind myself of policy pages, I know from experience how useful this sort of thing would be for newer editors. <font style="color:darkred">†  ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 15:11, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * If we would like to help new editors while they are editing, then the left hand side (navigation and toolbox areas) would seem logical. Another possibility is a small help window that gave the user fast access to our vast array of high-quality guidelines, policies, and help, or to a list of shortcuts. Of course an experienced regular user can achieve the effect by having a separate browser window open to one's own personal wiki cheat sheet library. DCDuring TALK 15:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * A user could do all of those things, as well as referring to the or  message that should’ve been <tt>subst:</tt>’d onto his talk page. However, I think that the s will be more intuitive to look up, and their use has virtually no drawbacks. That’s my opinion anyway, and I think it’s supported by the fact that Tyranny Sue suggested this very thing. <font style="color:darkred">†  ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 15:53, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Thinking back on my own initial experience, I was often defeated by the other tools. Although my general appreciation for "modes" meant that it was not the first place I would look for something about Wiktionary and its own use of terms, I sometimes resorted to the searchbox. As I recall the default did not search very much outside principal namespace (???). Accordingly it often did not get me what I needed. I sometimes found what I wanted via a helpful link to something in Wiktionary space, often near the bottom of the page under "See also".
 * The problem with putting something to help new users using the most prominent space on the screen is that it would be there for everyone all the time. (Making it something that could be eliminated WT:PREFS or the "my preferences" tab is good for hard-core users, but not occasional non-newbie, non contributor users.) I believe that and a  (to a disambiguation page only, especially for proper nouns) help a larger class of users.
 * If there are any limits in WT:ELE or our generally accepted practices that keep us from inserting such appendix, glossary, and help links in "See also" (or perhaps more prominently low on the right-hand side), they should be eliminated. I'd favor making sure that all terms in Glossary got such treatment in the corresponding entry and that they get an "only in" entry if there is no such entry. Would this be worth a BP discussion? DCDuring TALK 16:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Could we not make them only visible to registered users? That would be to the benefit of the clear majority of our users. <font style="color:darkred">†  ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 18:41, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I don't know. But, if we could and we could also allow users to turn them off, then there are only small (?) performance and complications questions. That means the target user is a registered, non-veteran contributor? If that could be implemented, it seems like a winner. Frankly, it seems like a much more useful aspect of presentation to be able to turn on or off than some of the other items in preferences and WT:PREFS.
 * I suppose what I was thinking about is aimed more at early-stage serious, but non-contributing users. It would be nice to have some information about the non-registered, non-contributing, non-vandal users. WT:Feedback is better than nothing, but it doesn't help very much on usability, at least not without some calibration. DCDuring TALK 19:19, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion for new Category
I suggest that 'English words commonly affected by confusion' (or perhaps 'Difficult English words'?) would be useful. (Including, e.g. affect, incredulous, comprise & other such words where one is often mistakenly used in place of the one whose meaning is meant; i.e. affect instead of effect, incredulous instead of incredible, comprise instead of compose).--Tyranny Sue 06:42, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * (She has since created this at Category:English_words_affected_by_confusion — not sure how to link to a category.) Equinox ◑ 10:35, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * With a colon: .    —msh210  ℠  20:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't much like the proposed template names. "Difficult English words" would include long technical and scientific ones that are not commonly confused, and "affected by confusion" seems quite broad and nebulous (or maybe that's the point of the unifying category). Equinox ◑ 10:37, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * After posting, I discovered Categories, which seemed to imply that it was ok to just create the category. Since no-onen had replied to my post, I thought maybe a discussion here wasn't necessary.--Tyranny Sue 03:41, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

 * You can link to (rather than categorising into) a category by prefixing it with a colon; e.g.: <tt> Category:English words affected by confusion </tt> = Category:English words affected by confusion. I propose instead Category:English terms often used catachrestically or Category:Common English catachreses. Whatever the title, I very much support the spirit of such a category. <font style="color:darkred">†  ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 11:17, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Good suggestions, Raifʻhār. I think Category:Common English catachreses would be a better way to go.--Tyranny Sue 03:41, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Who would use the category? To what question or problem is it the answer? DCDuring TALK 11:44, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I would and so, I assume, would Tyranny Sue. There are certain terms which people often misuse (if you would permit me such a prescriptive term in description of their oft-proscribed usage); it would be handy to have them all listed in one place so that a user could read the usage notes of all these terms of which he’d like to get a better idea how to use. <font style="color:darkred">†  ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 13:14, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * People interested in characteristics (and examples) of catachresis (in English) would use it.--Tyranny Sue 03:41, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

 * If it is to be used only "by insiders", why not make it a hidden category? That means that there need be no normal-user considerations in naming it. All and only those who can use WT:PREFS the preference tab would have visibility. DCDuring TALK 13:51, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * No, I’d intend this as a category for the man-in-the-street user who wishes to refine his use of oft-misused terms. This sort of thing would be of no use to an editor qua editor, so making the category hidden would entirely defeat the point of it. <font style="color:darkred">†  ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 15:16, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * How did you meet this man in the street? Coming out of a bookstore with "Eats, Shoots, and Leaves" and "Ad Herennium"? I'm just a wee bit skeptical that the man in the street is going to grasp the utility to him of a category bearing a name from classical rhetoric.
 * Moreover, someone who knew his Quintilian or his Wikipedia would wonder why we were using the term for affect/effect and incredulous/incredible which don't fit the much more specific meaning of catachresis, which seems to have to do with the use of inappropriate figures of speech rather than words of the wrong meaning. That we follow some lesser dictionaries in selecting the vaguer sense of a polysemic word is understandable. That we would use it where we should be a model of clarity and unambiguity is not understandable. DCDuring TALK 05:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I’ve now referenced the OED. That can hardly be called a “lesser” dictionary, and it has the rhetorical sense tacked on to its single definition almost as an afterthought. Furthermore, the related terms seem only to carry the general sense, rather than the specific, al, one. Maybe that isn’t the case in Latin or Ancient Greek, but we run the risk of flooding the category with excessively esoteric logomachies if we engage in such a level of atavism. <font style="color:darkred">†  ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 10:39, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * My concern is for the choice of word as a category name because of:
 * its ambiguity with respect to the subject matter of the category. The 17 usages at COCA are in the narrower sense. Contrast with another polysemic category name: "Birds", for which there can be little doubt which sense is applicable.
 * its modest level of usage outside academic writings and consequent low utility for most men in most streets, not to mention others. 15 of the 17 COCA hits were categorized as academic, the other two being in the same article in American Spectator. DCDuring TALK 13:38, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems very POV. Is every English word that has a usage note to be included? Every English word? They all are subject to confusion of one sort or another. (Or most are, anyway.)    —msh210  ℠  20:02, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * My choice of word, i.e. "confusion", was perhaps not have ideal. This can be changed. However, the spirit of the category is not 'very POV', as what is meant are words (mainly word pairs - please see category description Category:English_words_affected_by_confusion ) frequently pointed out in external sources (e.g. style guides)(and I've added this proviso to the category description). As far as 'all English words' being 'subject to confusion of one sort or another', these are specific cases. The type of catachresis we're talking about here is chronic, widespread and usually applying to pairs of similar-sounding English words. They constitute, in fact, only a very small fraction of the English words in existence (and use).
 * The purpose and motivation of this is merely to promote the understanding and effective use of English terms, and (as I said above) for people interested in catachresis itself.--Tyranny Sue 03:41, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

 * The word catachresis as it would be used here is merely a [adjective omitted] synonym for "abuse". In Latin rhetoric it was called . The more specific sense does not seem to actually include affect/effect and incredulous/incredible and comprise/compose.
 * Why is a category the right tool for this job? Alternatives include:
 * Usage notes, some of which are very explicit in contrasting the terms.
 * Appendices which can be linked to from Usage notes or See also which can list, say all catachreses and or use other words more intelligible to the other 99.44% of our users.
 * Homophones to at least identify one subclass of the words.
 * I can't quite picture how a category alone would help a normal user. Would the user be searching for all possible word pairs that might cause confusion of a certain type? I could see how it might help us find the terms so that we could take the best example of how to present the issue and try to apply it to the other cases. That would seem made to order for a hidden category. DCDuring TALK 04:34, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I tend to think that an appendix would be better, since it would be useful to be able to list the word pairs (or triads, or whatever) together, with en dashes — something that cannot be done in a category. (Or can it?) <font style="color:darkred">†  ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 10:39, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I wonder if our existing appendices are sufficiently linked to from the entries that they reference. It would be simple enough to fix that. DCDuring TALK 13:38, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Entered word missing
After creating an account, I entered a new word/definition (Kimberlin) and clicked 'save'. However, when I went back to the main page and entered the word - not from vanity, but to see whether it had registered! - I found it is still listed as 'no word found'. What am I doing wrong?

 * I have no idea what happened. What was your entry’s original content? <font style="color:darkred">†  ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 13:29, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * FYI, your contributions page shows this post to the Information Desk to be your first and only contribution here. <font style="color:darkred">†  ﴾(u):Raifʻhār (t):Doremítzwr﴿ 13:30, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Alternate spellings
I am new with Wiktionary and I want to fully understand the purpose of "Alternate spellings" in some Witionary's entries. For example, I mean: "What is the use of this field in an entry such as Polack?" Thank you, --Jazzeur 02:47, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * In the case of "Polack", the Alternative spellings just provides different ways of spelling "Polack" which are all supposed to be correct (i.e. not misspellings). In this case, I don't know if the alternative spellings are actually correct, but as you already know, this is currently being discussed in RfV. —AugPi 02:59, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * A more well-established example is "judgment" which can also be correctly spelled as "judgement". —AugPi 03:01, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Sometimes an alternative spelling is due to a difference between American spelling and Commonwealth spelling, for example see "jeweler" and "jeweller". —AugPi 03:04, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * If this is the case then it should be indicated in parentheses. —AugPi 03:05, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for all the quick replies. One further question: "Do all those alternate spellings have to have the same meaning as the entry in question?" --Jazzeur 03:09, 27 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, although some of the alternate spellings might be polysemic which means that they can have other meanings as well. For example, "Pollock" is polysemic: on the one hand, it is an alternative spelling of "Polack", but on the other hand, it means either a surname or a painting by Jackson Pollock.  —AugPi 03:19, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

 * For words borrowed from a foreign language, like "Polack", the spelling used could be based on the writer's transcription from the other language or a phonetic rendering of the pronunciation of the word. "Polack" was probably Shakespeare's version of how to spell it to make it come out of actors' mouths the way he wanted it to. The spellings "Pollock" and "Polock" are spellings some more recent authors use to reflect the pronunciation they may have heard. Alternative spellings are less common or sometimes regional (eg, UK vs. US). We would like someone who came across one of the other spellings to find our main entry. The alternative spelling entries serve that purpose.
 * What spelling should one use? If capitalized, none of the spellings should cause much confusion. Any of them might be a last name, but the context usually would make that obvious. But to be nice to readers, the most common spelling ("Polack") increases the chances that the reader will either recognize it from previous reading or find the meaning even in a dictionary with fewer alternative spellings than we have. DCDuring TALK 03:29, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Transwiki:Ababil_(disambiguation) - What happens to "transwiki" bot copies from Wikipedia?
I noticed on Wikipedia that a bot had created the page Transwiki:Ababil_(disambiguation) here.

Is there some official process (queue/list) here at Wiktionary that examines these copied pages and determines if an entry in Wiktionary mainspace should be created? Thanks. (PS a ref for ababil (ref: The Young Naturalist's Book of Birds)) Proofreader77 18:47, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If it satisfies the criteria for inclusion into Wiktionary then anyone can format it according to WT:ELE and move it to the appropriate page (I guess [[ababil]] in this case). —  msh210  ℠  22:28, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

 * It is likely that it would be converted to the Arabic alphabet, Persian or Arabic, which may be a plural of . —Stephen 07:53, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

follow-up: Help:Transwiki
Many thanks. Are there people (some project/group) who regularly look over these transwikied pages, OR is it more of a black hole? :) Proofreader77 23:46, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
 * People go through them from time to time. There's someone who's been doing so wholesale, but I don't remember who, and don't know whether he still is. This is a wiki: feel free to contribute. —  msh210  ℠  15:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Do you mean User:Goldenrowley? —Stephen 04:13, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Many thanks. Yes, User:Goldenrowley ... I'll follow up with them. Proofreader77 20:05, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

How to input special characters
How do I input the Greek letter upper case omega? The help file says, "You will almost certainly find any character you need in the box below the “Save page” button in editing mode."

Using my browser there is no box below the Save Page button in editing mode.
 * There should be a short pull-down menu below the "Save page" button when you are in the edit window. It may say "Default", or it may say something else, but once you click on it, you can pull down to "Greek (Modern)" or "Greek (Ancient)", where you will find the omega and other Greek letters. --EncycloPetey 02:21, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Am I the only registered user not able to input special characters in the search box? I used to be able to. DCDuring TALK 00:18, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

超常 leads me to $1 ???
Hi. I'm trying to add a new entry for 超常, however when I try to do this it comes up with 'Wikipedia may have an article on $1'. Then, strangely, when I try to add a Wiktionary entry it tries to create one for $1! What the---? UPDATE: I've just realised, this $1 thing only comes up when I use the Wiktionary search box on the left OR the search engine add-on in firefox to search for the word. However, if I click on the red link - 超常 - it goes straight to Editing 超常 as normal. Tooironic 10:50, 5 July 2009 (UTC) Tooironic 10:50, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * By the way, myself and another user have added the definitions for Mandarin and Japanese respectively, so this $1 thing won't appear anymore... Perhaps it was just an enigma anyway... Tooironic 11:08, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Explanation is at WT:GP. —  msh210  ℠  17:40, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

 * I encountered this (being sent to $1) on es.wikt when I had my user-interface preference set to English. When I switched it to the native wikt language (in this case Spanish) the problem went away. Do you by chance have the interface language preference set to something other than English? --Bequw → ¢ • τ 01:21, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Nope. At any rate it's not happening anymore which is good. Tooironic 03:51, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Suffix Bunch
Hello. Is there any grammatical name for the words that are formed by adding multiple suffixes at once, so that the between forms are not used (do not exist)? It happens sometimes in Hungarian entries that a word has a suffix at the end but taking it off will produce an unused form, not even worth an entry. It means the word got its suffix in a bunch, not one-at-a-time. Is there a name for this? It is not back-formation but rather a fastforward-formation. But that is not too linugistical. Thanks Qorilla 14:26, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Many American Indian languages have inalienable nouns, which can only exist with an attached pronoun. For instance, Ojibwe or Navajo -bid is not a word, but you have to say in Ojibwe, or  in Navajo. Sometimes a Navajo dictionary will give  or  as citation forms. —Stephen 04:25, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Seems to me like a variaton of a bound morpheme. Maybe cranberry morpheme is the word we're looking for? Circeus 13:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

 * I guess there is no word for this. I try to illustrate: say there is a word "driverlyness" (the state of being like someone who drives; Hungarian uses this kind of suffixes all the time even for the most basic stuff). And say that 'driverly' is never used for some reason (so it shouldn't get an entry) but 'driver' is. So 'lyness' is one group in the entry-sense, but two in reality because everyone knows and feels that it is -ly + -ness. Now what to do in the Etymology section for 'driverlyness'?
 * say it is 'driverly' (nonexistent, red link) + '-ness';
 * create an entry for 'driverly', only to make the link blue, but without any relevant information, as the word is not used.
 * not linking 'driverly' and leaving it black. Then one cannot know what the suffix is attached to.
 * say it is 'driver' (existent) + '-lyness' (nonexistent);
 * create an entry '-lyness' stating it is a compound of '-ly' + '-ness', but no relevant information, since the meaning is what you get if you add them up.
 * say it is 'driver' + '-ly' + '-ness'
 * needs template-editing because most of them only allow one suffix. Qorilla 10:48, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

 * I would do a handmade driver: + -ly: + -ness: . There are a fairly large number of these, even in English. It would not seem unreasonable to have a template that could handle these (assuming all in the same language, fewer than 10 affixes). In English, I suppose we like the idea of forcing the creation of redlinked "driverly", but, even in English, such forms do not necessarily exist, at least attestably. DCDuring TALK 11:15, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Modify hu-suffix to take more than one suffix (three might be sufficient), hu-affix can take nine. --Panda10 21:52, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

SUL
It appears to be impossible to attach the english wiktionary username PizzaMan to my SUL, yet the user has never made a single edit since registering in 2006. Is there any way i can usurp this account to my SUL account? PizzaManTemporary 14:22, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Make a request at Wiktionary:Changing username SemperBlotto 14:27, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks :-)

Prefix template
I have been adding the prefix template to a number of pages, trying to fill out the English words prefixed with xx- pages. What should I do with a stem currently entered like this: term|curo|cūrō|take care ? The prefix template doesn't have slots for both curo and cūrō, so I would lose the diacritics if I wanted it to hyperlink. Brock 01:08, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

 * You need to use gloss1= or gloss2= for translations, and alt1= or alt2= for alternative display forms. However, you shouldn't need to use that for English words formed from prefixes.  The  template is only meant to link to parts in the same language as the current entry because it categorizes. --EncycloPetey 03:23, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Reading Entries Alphabetically
Is there a way to read Wiktionary as if one was reading a book? That is, one entry after the other in alphabetical order.

Maybe I'm warped, but I'd like to read the entries one after another alphabetically. The Random Entry feature is nice, but not exactly what I was looking for. WonderWheeler 03:02, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Try Special:PrefixIndex. —Stephen 03:16, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

 * That's the best we can offer. It won't be in "alphabetical order" because some entries are not written with any alphabet.  We have entries in hundreds of different languages, in many different scripts and forms of writing. --EncycloPetey 03:21, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the info. Not what we were looking for. Guess my mind works alphabetically to some extent, and would have liked to be able to look at words in adjacent alphabetic positions, especially when learning things or checking spelling. Apparently it would be a basic software issue. By the way, I was looking for a word that would include the letters LGBT (or GLBT) in order, similar to the way the initals GMW are in the word GuMWood. WonderWheeler 03:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Put a "a" in the Special:PrefixIndex box and it shows all entries beginning with "a" alphabetically. For GLBT, Inglebert. —Stephen 04:15, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * ...or Gilbert. And for LGBT, Longbotham or Longbottom. Doubtless others exist. —  msh210  ℠  17:37, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Try Index:English if you want just English words. (Other languages' indices exist, too, with similar titles.) Note that the indices are not up-to-date. —  msh210  ℠  17:37, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that, I like GiLBerT; also found: Like GangBusTers, LaG BolT, LarGe BuTT, LauGh BeTTer, LauGhaBiliTy, LiGhning BolT, LinGonBerry Tart, LivinG BeTTer, GLiBiTy, GLoBalisT, GLuaBiliTy, GiLl BoaT, GnarLy BuTT, GLass BoTTom, and some strange ones like LinGuolaBialTy, GLaBrescenT and GeLiphoBiasT. (pardon) WonderWheeler 07:00, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

prescriptivism and prescriptive - label pejorative?
I've noticed these words seem to be mostly used prescriptively, and often also autologically. Would a label or usage note be appropriate?--203.52.130.137 04:54, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

 * If you are talking about at Wiktionary, of course it is "pejorative" in the sense that prescriptivism represents a departure from the explicit principles of this dictionary and of all the Wikimedia foundation projects. I suppose it might be true more widely, although I'd like to see the evidence. There are many works that seem to revel in their prescriptivism. I don't think would find the term particularly pejorative. It can be descriptively accurate of their intended approach to language. And autology both is fun and may minimize demands on the reader's working memory. DCDuring TALK 06:50, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

 * (I started this section from a computer at my local library. I didn't have time to log in.)
 * Wikimedia politics aside, though, wouldn't you say that 'pejorative' accurately describes the way 'prescriptive' and (especially) 'prescriptivism' are used?--Tyranny Sue 15:51, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

 * "Prescriptive" has a few meanings. Assuming we are talking about linguistic prescriptivism, I still don't think the term is inherently pejorative, certainly not enough to warrant template . To someone with an anti-authority tendency, prescriptivism may seem intrinsically pejorative. But some of the linguistic academies explicitly take a prescriptive role in guiding the development of the language for which they have been assigned responsibilities. The don't seem to view that as negative in their self-descriptions (or translations thereof). Based on usage in COCA, BNC, and OED citations, it seems to more often have a negative tone than a positive one, but not overwhelmingly so. I have some guides like Strunk and White's, Fowler's, Barzun's, and Elbow's (also U of Chicago's guide) which are clearly prescriptive. They are like manuals of good practice to achieve a result: language engineering guides. DCDuring TALK 17:17, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
 * OTOH, you are probably not alone in your perceptions and reactions. I just can't imagine covering the range of valences for every hearer/reader and every context even in a usage note let alone a context tag. DCDuring TALK 17:22, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Quick Question
As I was helping translate words, I stumbled upon this page Merv. There are two definitions; one is the short form of the name Mervyn, and the other is a place in Turkmenistan. The translations listed as needing to be checked are under the first definition, the name. However, I strongly believe that the translations correspond to the second definition, the place. I'm not really sure what to do. Thanks! Ethansmith 20:06, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * There is only one English definition given. The other definition is in a separate Turkish language secion.  We don't include translations tables under any non-English entries, so you need not worry about the place in Turkmenistan .--EncycloPetey 20:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, I see. But I checked the Wikipedia article for that Turkish definition of the place in Turkmenistan called Merv. The translations that need to be checked under the English definition mean the Turkish definition. Ethansmith 20:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Mispelling:

On Community Portal page, Projects list, the last item is spelled " Mulitlingual coordination"
 * Thanks for pointing that out. Fixed. --EncycloPetey 17:52, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

ashes of rose
But she could not stay in the house this evening. Where should she go? She walked slowly down through the orchard, where the evening air was heavy with the smell of wild cotton. The fresh, salty scent of the wild roses had given way before this more powerful perfume of midsummer. Wherever those 'ashes-of-rose balls' hung on their milky stalks, the air about them was saturated with their breath. Paragraph of book "O Pioneers! (1913) Written by Willa Cather" would like to know more about 'ashes-of-rose balls' Nico Coetzee
 * The term ashes of rose (or ashes-of-rose) is the name of a color, specifically a pinkish gray. W. Cather is describing the color of the wilting roses. --EncycloPetey 18:06, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

rthere categories4[specificlanguage]+IPA?
so ionly get entriescontaining IPA--史凡/ʂɚ˨˩fan˧˥/shi3fan2 (歡迎光臨/Welcome! 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/since I suffer RSI!) 14:37, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Try CatScan. —  msh210  ℠  15:34, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

4Min nan,what2fill in pl?--史凡/ʂɚ˨˩fan˧˥/shi3fan2 (歡迎光臨/Welcome! 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/since I suffer RSI!) 16:40, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * You would be looking for pages that use both and either contain the text "Min Nan" or a coding such as "lang=nan".  You could also compare listings in specific Min Nan parts of speech categories, such as Category:Min Nan nouns --EncycloPetey 17:49, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Or Category:Min Nan language, with some depth, with the use of . —  msh210  ℠  17:55, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Wiki 	en.wiktionary.org search in category 	lang=nanwith depth3 for pages by category 	with depth for pages by template 	 inverse (untagged only) for all pages 	if you supply a template in the field above, tagged articles will be highlited for stubs 	having less than bytes less than links (main namespace only) for changes in the last 	hours, hide minor, hide bots , only new articles for all images for all categories Format:

Show category lang=nan as tree . Articles under lang=nan that contain template :

'''no matches! '''
 * [idontknow how2do screenshots :( ]
 * a.tried w/[=with] category Min Nan
 * also:meaning ofdepthhere?--史凡/ʂɚ˨˩fan˧˥/shi3fan2 (歡迎光臨/Welcome! 請也用/Please also use skype: sven0921為我/since I suffer RSI!) 19:11, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

[I] can hear a person talking who is eavesdropping.. his companion is silent.. is possible.. [if there uh is one].. however.. though[t].. you should know.. you are not responsible..
[I] want/wish to THANK YOU, for the article[s].. about PAN the DEITY.. as THEOS.. he [is] Malevolent God, [polytheistic].. the PANTHEON.. in France.. is something like.. his TEMPLE.. also it is that of BRAHMA[N].. Evil God [of Creation].. in the INDIAN PANTHEON..

sincerely, Dustin Collings in Seattle area, Washington [USA]

Aum nama Sivaya

Election Notice
Ladies and Gentlemen,

As you may be aware, there is concern that the sitenotices regarding submission of candidacy for the Board of Trustees election were not seen anywhere but Meta after the 11th of this month. Because of the potentially massive consequence of this, and to encourage a full and active election, the election committee has determined that:

- Candidacies will be accepted through July 27th at 23:59 (UTC)

- The period for questioning candidates begins immediately. Candidates that are "late to the party" will, no doubt, be scrutinized by the community. The Committee hopes that the community will work to actively ensure that all candidates receive equivalent questioning.

- The dates of election will not change. The election will begin on 28 July and end on 10 August.

Please know that we recognize the radical nature of altering the schedule in the midst of the election and would not do it if we did not absolutely believe that there was a possibility that others may be interested and qualified and may not have known about the key dates.

For the committee, Philippe 09:18, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Onomatopoeia and what?
In Hungarian we have a name for a similar type of etymology to the onomatopoeia. In Hungarian it is named hangfestő or hangulatfestő, literally mood painting. These words express a feeling or mood about the thing that does not make any sound. Like icipici (pron. it-see pit-see) means tiny. And this word describes being tiny with these i sounds as that is similar to one one feels when showing between the thumb and first finger how small something is. But this is not an onom. because smallness does not make a sound.

Sorry if I'm over explaining, I don't know how known this is. I just can't find a word for it. Qorilla 21:27, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

 * We have things like that, such as itsy-bitsy (tiny), but the only label that I have seen applied in dictionaries is "babytalk". I know it really isn’t babytalk, but I that’s what we call it in American dictionaries. Perhaps the British dictionaries have a better candidate. —Stephen 21:49, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

 * I've got a feeling I've seen "imitative" in Chambers for words like this, even when it's not imitating a sound. Equinox ◑ 21:50, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Ideophone seems like the word you're looking for (or close to it). "Mimesis", and more specific words like phenomime, are also used occasionally. -- Visviva 15:27, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Ideophone is really it! Should we use it in Etymology sections here on Wiktionary? Qorilla 17:22, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Seems reasonable to me. Another question is whether we want to have "Category:Xyzy ideophones" and so forth.  -- Visviva 17:51, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

momme - definition
I am new to the Wiktionary system so pardon me if I'm not addressing by the correct process. I came across a word being discussed on my RC Plane forum for which I could find no definition. The word is MOMME which evidently is a measure of silk or fabric weight. One of the forum contributors offered the following explanation:

Momme (pronounced "mommy" and abbreviated "mm") expresses the weight in pounds of a piece of material of size 45 inches by 100 yards. So, for example, a 50 yd. bolt of our 5mm 45" Habotai Silk fabric (#HS545) would weigh 2.5 lbs. (plus the weight of the cardboard tube it is wrapped around, of course). The higher the momme, the heavier and stronger the fabric.  Anything above 28 momme is considered heavy-weight and generally used for curtains or heavier outer-garments.  Silk under 20 momme is considered lightweight, and generally used for light blouses with a chiffon feel.  Medium-weight silk (20 to 28 momme) is excellent for silk scarves, furnishings, wedding dresses and the ultimate luxury of silk sheets.

Does this word qualifying for inclusion in Wiktionary? What is the process? Please note that I am not an expert in the fabric industry nor entomology.

Rick

 * Yes, it does qualify, but not simply on the basis of what you have said above. Our criteria for inclusion requires three "durably-archived" citations, which usually means references in a published book, periodical, or similar.  A quick search at b.g.c. turns up many published uses of "momme", so it meets our criteria.

 * PS - you don't have to know about bugs to add an entry here; an entomologist studies bugs. --EncycloPetey 15:19, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

Question about Puerto Rico
I work at a call center and my training class was wondering why "suspensión" is bad to say in Puerto Rico?

conspirator / co-conspirator
What's the difference between a conspirator and a co-conspirator? Is there one? Is it redundant? RJFJR 13:37, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

 * A conspirator is a person who agrees with another person to commit a crime. A co-conspirator is the other person with whom he agreed to commit the crime. Each of the perpetrators in agreement is a conspirator, and each of his partners is a co-conspirator. —Stephen 14:09, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

 * So if we conspire then I am a conspirator and you are my co-conspirator; equally, you are a conspirator and I am your co-conspirator. Right? RJFJR 16:45, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Right. —Stephen 17:27, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Where's the references?
I edit Wikipedia a bit, where I always use references. I've made only one edit to Wiktionary, at the word 'autistic'. I used two references (Yale Economic Review and Dictionary.com). I was swiftly reverted. The editor said on the discussion page that 'autism' and 'autistic' were not the same thing. Sure, they aren't. But I was editing 'autistic', not autism. Admittedly, the Yale article was referring to the French word "autisme". I got no response. I've noticed no Wiktionary pages which reference their sources, and that combined with the response to my references suggests to me that there's a dislike for references. What's the deal with that? ImperfectlyInformed 18:23, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

 * We tend to use citations instead: uses of the word matching the definition given. Equinox ◑ 18:34, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

 * I'm not following - I think the word matching the definition would be a circular citation. ImperfectlyInformed 19:11, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

 * No, if we define car as a vehicle and then quote a real, published book (independent of wiki projects) that mentions a car in that context ("He drove the car down the road"), that serves to verify the definition. Equinox ◑ 19:16, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The etymology you added was not an etymology (from French autistique would have been an etymology, but I have not checked it). And the definition you added was not a definition of autistic, but of autism.
 * A citation is a reference, as it's a proof that the word exists and is used with the meaning given. Linguistic external links may be added, too, if you consider they are useful, but not inside the definition. Lmaltier 19:21, 31 July 2009 (UTC)


text:
chifel

Etymology
From, from , , from.

Noun

 * 1) kipfel crescent-shaped biscuit or bread roll from Trentino

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: chifel


text:
chimerismo

Noun

 * 1) chimerism

title: chimerismo


text:
romant

Verb

 * 1)  To romanticize.

Etymology
From, interpreted as a nominative singular.

title: romant


text:
chincagliere

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) a seller of trinkets etc.

title: chincagliere


text:
halhatatlan

Adjective

 * 1) immortal

Noun

 * 1) immortal

title: halhatatlan


text: halhatatlanok

title: halhatatlanok


text: chioccolando

title: chioccolando


text:
chioccolare

Verb

 * 1)  to trill
 * 2)  to warble

title: chioccolare


text: chioccolante

title: chioccolante


text: chioccolato

title: chioccolato


text: chioccolati

title: chioccolati


text: chioccolata

title: chioccolata


text: chioccolo

title: chioccolo


text: chioccoli

title: chioccoli


text: chioccola

title: chioccola


text: chioccoliamo

title: chioccoliamo


text: chioccolate

title: chioccolate


text: chioccolano

title: chioccolano


text: chioccolavo

title: chioccolavo


text: chioccolavi

title: chioccolavi


text: chioccolava

title: chioccolava


text: chioccolavamo

title: chioccolavamo


text: chioccolavate

title: chioccolavate


text: chioccolavano

title: chioccolavano


text: chioccolai

title: chioccolai


text: chioccolasti

title: chioccolasti


text: chioccolò

title: chioccolò


text: chioccolammo

title: chioccolammo


text: chioccolaste

title: chioccolaste


text: chioccolarono

title: chioccolarono


text: chioccolerò

title: chioccolerò


text: chioccolerai

title: chioccolerai


text: chioccolerà

title: chioccolerà


text: chioccoleremo

title: chioccoleremo


text: chioccolerete

title: chioccolerete


text:
chioccolio

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) trilling, warbling

title: chioccolio


text: chioccoleranno

title: chioccoleranno


text: chioccolerei

title: chioccolerei


text: chioccoleresti

title: chioccoleresti


text: chioccolerebbe

title: chioccolerebbe


text: chioccoleremmo

title: chioccoleremmo


text: chioccolereste

title: chioccolereste


text: chioccolerebbero

title: chioccolerebbero


text: chioccoliate

title: chioccoliate


text: chioccolino

title: chioccolino


text: chioccolassi

title: chioccolassi


text: chioccolasse

title: chioccolasse


text: chioccolassimo

title: chioccolassimo


text: chioccolassero

title: chioccolassero


text:
Talk:Etienne

I don't think this is translingual or a misspelling; a lot of authorities would say that Étienne is a misspelling of Etienne because capital letters do not take diacritics in French. With Égypte and États-Unis as well, they might be better listed as alternative spellings of each other. It's probably the toughest policy issue in French. Mglovesfun (talk) 18:09, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Deletion debate
RFD translingual section. It's only as translingual as all given names are, and the definition isn't correct. Etienne isn't considered a misspelling, if anything it's the standard spelling of Étienne as capital letters don't take accents in French, although you do sometimes see them. Mglovesfun (talk) 13:32, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Delete the section (it's not translingual). But I repeat here that in French, capital letters do take accents, except if you use a cursive script or if there is a technical impossibility (old typewriters). On computers, it's possible, but not very easy, and accents are often omitted, especially in forums. Lmaltier 14:17, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * That's prescriptive though. Walking around most of the time capital letters have no accents. And certainly some consider that putting accents on capital letters is actually an error. Mglovesfun (talk) 14:22, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Look at LIBERTÉ ÉGALITÉ FRATERNITÉ on front of French city halls. I'm surprised by your statement that some consider it's an error... Wikipédia discusses this point in detail in its Capitale et majuscule page. Lmaltier 16:34, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes but what about LE PALAIS DES CONGRES ("the palace of Congress", but could theoretically mean "the palace of conger eels"). I always put the accents but in reality, most people don't. I'm also told that Microsoft word replaced États-Unis with Etats-Unis automatically. Mglovesfun (talk) 16:44, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Most people don't, you're right, because they cannot enter them with standard keyboards (they would have to use a menu). Diacritics on capital letters are omitted in some books (I tried 5 novels, I found one case in each of them: 2 Ç (with the diacritic), 1 Ô (with the diacritic) and 2 A (without the diacritic). However, dictionaries never omit them (except the Word one, probably). Lmaltier 17:06, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree, but how can we omit the more common form and keep the less common one? Mglovesfun (talk) 17:14, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * But I don't propose to omit it. I created a number of pages of fr.wikt for this reason (for French towns). Lmaltier 19:03, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

In Germany this name is commonly written without accent. As such a German section might be warranted. -- Prince Kassad 19:09, 1 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Translingual sections are not needed if the (mis)spelling appears in the original language, and refers to a Frenchman, just like a German entry for Étienne isn't needed. All names with diacritical marks are often written without them in English, that doesn't mean it is worth recording. I'll leave it to you French speakers to decide if the E-spellings are acceptable French.--Makaokalani 12:42, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Deleted translingual section. Mglovesfun (talk) 23:13, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Etienne


text:
niddering

Etymology
A variant of, resulting from the letter eth (ð) in Early 🇨🇬 in the writings of the English historian ( – c.  1143) being mistaken for a  followed by a mark of suspension representing a letter that had been omitted as an abbreviation. This led to niðing being wrongly spelled as nidering in early printed versions of his works. The word was later popularized by the Scottish novelist and poet Sir (1771–1832).

title: niddering


text:
Template:U:fr:É

 * In older French practice, capital letters did not take diacritics, so É becomes E. This was mostly done because of technical constraints. Formal orthotypography maintains the diacritics.

title: Template:U:fr:É


text:
Template talk:U:fr:É

=Documentation= This template is only to be used for French words starting with a upper case É where the É also/usually written E. Common examples include Égypte/Egypte and États-Unis/Etats-Unis. Must always appear under the header ====Usage notes====

RFD Discussion
This template says a thing which is clearly false. Really, Wiktionary can do that ? See Académie française, they explain that forggetting the accent is a fault in French. --ArséniureDeGallium (talk) 20:54, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep, I've never opposed reforming the template but I do oppose deleting it. The thing is... rules change. Accents on capital letters are a pretty recent thing, the last few decades which in linguistic terms is a tiny amount. I asked a French friend about this, she's a little younger than me, maybe 22 or 23. She says that Égypte and Egypte are both valid. Older speakers are telling me that Égypte is an error and only Egypte is valid. You're saying Égypte is valid and not Egypte. How do you want to cover this sort of usage whilst deleting the template? Mglovesfun (talk) 22:55, 16 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree with a template reform; it's truly necessary. Automatik (talk) 21:16, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Clearly false if you have no idea what you're talking about. Please do some fact checking before talking complete rubbish. Also please avoid inflammatory language. 21:22, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I don't have English for maternal language. That's why I don't see in my talk inflammatory language. However, I think verifiability is important when we say something controversial. Regards, Automatik (talk) 21:35, 17 April 2013 (UTC) Ok, sorry for the confusion. Automatik (talk) 22:22, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Technically, the template's information is true. It says it's omitted in "traditional orthography", which is true. It just leaves out the important part that the traditional orthography is no longer the current one. 21:25, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Should we not also consider the non-traditional spelling? Cordially, Automatik (talk) 21:35, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, yes, but that's more or less obvious. As long as a language is being written, our entries will always cover the most current spellings and grammar. 21:39, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * It's possible to say that the spelling without accent is the most used. I think however it's not correct to suggest that a single spelling is prefered; and that's this template do. It would be better to describe the two uses, and not to exclude one with a sentence which excludes the current spelling (note: the reader is primarily there to learn French today, not yesterday's). That's why I support a reform of it, as proposed Mglovesfun. The trend is to increasingly accents on capital (an example). Printing has changed and the rules of typography too. We can't say so categorically today that the accent is usually forgotten on capital letters. Regards, Automatik (talk) 21:53, 17 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I believe Canadian French keeps the accents on capitals, and the Académie has no say in that. I am not an expert. —Michael Z. 2013-04-21 23:38 z

Hi, I support also the idea that note lack of neutrality. Both are usually use nowadays for all kinds of typewriting but fact normalizing institutions (such as Académie Française) promote É instead E as typographic normed rule and lot of editors follow that normalization. But with the handwritting, we still continue to omit the diacritics on capital letters, maybe you should speak about that fact instead of an hypothethic traditional orthography which doesn't have any sense. But anyways all actives French contributors who read this note found it really "awkward" and confuse, you should reformulate it or simply omit it in my humble opinion. V!v£ l@ Rosière  /Whisper…/  00:50, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Surely all of this is a reason to keep it (with some sort of content). Mglovesfun (talk) 13:44, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Kept 12:18, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

Discussion
The claim made by this template seems wrong and is certainly unsubstantiated at the moment. I'm currently doing a little research to try and find any older orthotypography recommendations that actually give such a rule. My suspicion is that accented upper-case was always preferable, but was often omitted in the past purely because of technical constraints (type availability). Urhixidur (talk) 13:40, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

 * Gustave Daupeley, Le Compositeur et le correcteur typographes, Librairie Rouvier et Logeat, Paris, 1880 (Google Books ID 7dANAAAAQAAJ), has a long chapter (second part, chapter III, p. 268 ff.) discussing when upper-case should be used (in much detail). He does not discuss upper-case diacritics, but the examples abundantly show they are kept. There is nothing else that a Google Books search for "Imprimerie nationale" and majuscules will find for the nineteenth century. Urhixidur (talk) 13:57, 21 January 2017 (UTC)

title: Template talk:U:fr:É


text: Ecosse

title: Ecosse


text: Ethiopie

title: Ethiopie


text: Emirats arabes unis

title: Emirats arabes unis


text: sadisten

title: sadisten


text: sadister

title: sadister


text: sadisterne

title: sadisterne


text: sadistens

title: sadistens


text: sadisters

title: sadisters


text: sadisternes

title: sadisternes


text: Equateur

title: Equateur


text:
équatorien

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) Ecuadorian

title: équatorien


text: équatorienne

title: équatorienne


text: Category:Danish terms suffixed with -ist


text: équatoriens

title: équatoriens


text: équatoriennes

title: équatoriennes


text: Équatoriens

title: Équatoriens


text: Équatorienne

title: Équatorienne


text: Équatoriennes

title: Équatoriennes


text:
halhatatlanság

Noun

 * 1) immortality

title: halhatatlanság


text:
cyll

Etymology
From, from , variant of , from. Cognate with 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) a leathern bottle, flagon, vessel

Etymology 1
From, from , from , from , related to 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) hazel trees

title: cyll


text:
collen

Etymology
From.

title: collen


text:
cnau

Etymology
From, from. Compare 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) nuts

title: cnau


text:
cneuen

Etymology
From.

Pronunciation

title: cneuen


text:
User:Msh210/warn

Adding information you know to be incorrect, removing information you have no reason to think is wrong, advertising, and adding a message like "hello" or gibberish where it doesn't belong are good examples of vandalism; yours has been undone. Do it again, and you will likely be blocked from editing.

title: User:Msh210/warn