text:
User talk:Ivan Štambuk/Archive 2

Untracable Code
Please note the Encoding for the Swadesh-Table of Hittite (and perhaps the others, too. 195.4.204.145 09:34, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Ijekavian
Hey Ivan,

As per your comment on the Category talk:Ijekavian, if you have some time, would you please add the lang= parameter to, so that we can properly sort the entries as Croatian, Serbian and Bosnian. Thanks. --Dijan 04:15, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Done. lang= parameter is now mandatory, otherwise it'll sort in "Ijekavian English" :D It really matters only for Serbian to distinguish Ekavian and Ijekavian variants, because both Bosnian and Croatian are by default standardized on Ijekavian Neo-Štokavian. Kajkavian and Chakavian ijekavian are better to be handled with their indivudial context labels.
 * I've created also which is dialectal in all three languages. However, I'm still not sure how to treat it, because e.g. Chakavian is prevalently Ikavian, but there are also Ekavian and Ijekavian pockets, and I'd rather put them all into Chakavian than subdivide them (+ it's impossible to get proper categorization, because e.g. putting lang=hr at the same time when applying  and  will yield hr:Chakavian which is undesirable). --Ivan Štambuk 16:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks! :) --Dijan 16:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

 * These should all be using regcat= and you won't be getting improper categories. And the cats will be named properly, "(dialect/region) (language)" in all cases. (we don't want 50,000 dialect cats floating around under only the name of the dialect ...) Robert Ullmann 12:17, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Re Uzbek.
Hello, thank you for your message. There seems to be a 1 to 1 relation between Cyrillic and Roman alphabets in Uzbek. My question is, does this count as an alternate spelling, if it is just the script that is different? People seemed to say that having the Roman headers with Cyrillic in brackets was okay, which is why I did that, but I want to make sure that everything is done correctly, without having to do unnecessary work. Thanks in advance for your input! Winged eel 07:31, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

 * It does count as an "alternative spelling". I've used that header as such for Cyrillic/Glagolitic Old Church Slavonic (see e.g. ), and there are few Aramaic entries with Syriac/Hebrew alternative spellings (see e.g. ). OTOH, Serbian entries display Cyrillic/Roman spellings in the inflection line. So yes, you can use it either approach. One minor advantage of ===Alternative spellings=== approach is that it's positioned at higher level in the section hierarchy, so the alternative spelling needs to be mentioned only once, instead of repeated for every individual part of speech (when there are more than one, or when there are more etymologies).
 * I was patrolling some of your edits and just wanted to inform you of an alternative approach. At any case, both are just fine.. --Ivan Štambuk 16:52, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the advice. I think I might stick with what I am doing for now, and get someone to write a bot to change it if it gets to the point where many articles have several different headings. Winged eel 09:53, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Fungal etymology
Would you be willing to take a look at βωλίτης and boletus? EP and I were a bit unsure on the etymologies, and since a possible Slavic cognate was mentioned, and since you've been doing some work on Appendix:List of Proto-Slavic nouns/Vegetation, I thought you might have some worthwhile input. Also, I couldn't find your latest addition to Wiktionary:Requested articles:Ancient Greek, could you double check the spelling? Thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 23:33, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

 * That Slavic word can't be cognate to Ancient Greek or Latin word, because assuming it came from *bъd-la < bʰudʰ-, Ancient Greek reflexes would have initial phu- and Latin fu-. Found it here, Greek has question mark next to it for a very good reason. Beekes says Ancient Greek word is a Latin borrowing, which was named after town Boletum, and reasonably dismisses Pokorny/Vasmer interpetation as highly doubtful. --Ivan Štambuk 11:15, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

OCS as an ancestor language
Hi,

regarding this - I've been removing lately all the mentionings of OCS as an "ancestor" language of any of the Slavic languages, because strictu senso it's really isn't (not even of Macedonian). It is just a literary language, language of a particular set of manuscripts that are conveniently labeled as "the canon". Originally one Macedonian dialect was chosen, at a time when all Slavic dialects were mutually intelligible, but even at that time it exhibited features that are peculiar only to the Macedonian dialects (of Thessaloniki speech - back then Thessaloniki was mostly Slavicized). Regardless of coincidence with reconstructed Late Proto-Slavic forms (which are mostly reconstructed/verified on the basis of OCS), it would technically be wrong to say that any modern Slavic language "descended" from OCS. Some OCS manuscripts, such as Kiev Folia, are written in transitory Panonian dialect between Croatian and Czech which became instinct after the Magyar invasion. There are lots lexemes that were taken from OCS/CS into vernacular, usually as an elements of "higher style" (so called "Church Slavicisms"), but none of these basic terms are such. I plan creating "Appendix:Proto Slavic *etymon" pages for all of those words, so there'll be a central place to look up cognates in other Slavic languages - so far the ====Descendants==== section of OCS entries is just a temporary placeholder which is being removed as Appendix pages are created. Technically, xx:Old Church Slavonic derivations category should contain only these kind of "borrowings", but these are often very difficult to trace and separate from normally inherted words. In the Appendix: pages I've been putting OCS as the uppermost in the hierarchy not because it's an ancestor to all the other Slavic languages, but because it's the oldest attested one and kind of independent. Which is kind of misleading too, so in the last few created entries, (such as, ), I've been putting it in the same column. --Ivan Štambuk 17:59, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the clarification. Normally, I stay away from etym. of Slavic languages as I'm not too familiar with etymological studies on these languages. Keep me posted.  --Dijan 00:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm baffled...
Hi, Ivan, hope all's well. :-)

Wuddup with this? The words on that list are characterised correctly, see, e.g., flagge. Looks like it's getting all that goofy verbiage from the pagename, via template. I guess the page needs to be renamed/moved?? In case it matters, I noticed that it has already been moved at least once.

???

Winterxx (User:Snakesteuben 20:06, 24 April 2008 (UTC))

 * Created and moved the page. Hope I got the alphabet right ^_^ --Ivan Štambuk 20:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Great. And you're pretty close on the alphabet substance-wise. Except, well, capital letters omit diacriticals. You did the hard part though, and I think I can figure out how to take it from here--just create separate lowercase entries I guess. I'll ping you again if I get stuck. Winterxx Snakesteuben 22:01, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
 * On second thought, we're making it harder than it needs to be. A and â are alphabetised together. The link in the template will say simply A (the â will be deleted). And if and when the subpage that "A" points to is created, the first line can read "A/a/â." Akin to this: Index:German/o. Snakesteuben 22:22, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

avis
Could you complete Etymology 1? I have only very poor PIE information. --EncycloPetey 13:30, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Appendix:Proto-Indo-European *h₃ed-
Since this is the archetype posted on Reconstructed terms, perhaps it could use some love (a lot of love, from the current look of it :-)). By the way, has anyone told you lately how incredibly sick (sense 5) all the work you've been doing with PIE is?  Well, it is.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 07:41, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Ok, so I've moved it to Appendix:Proto-Indo-European *h₃ed- and done a bit of trimming. However, would you double-check that 1. Latin oleo comes from it (Pokorny suggests odefacio > olefacio > oleo, but I have no idea if this is still considered plausible.  2. The spelling is appropriate.  3. The POS.  From what I can tell, the root does not have many apparent descendants outside of Latin and Greek.....which is a bit odd.  Perhaps another PIE entry would better serve as the listed archetype at Reconstructed terms, such as Appendix:Proto-Indo-European *bʰer-, which is looking pretty sweet at this point.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 00:58, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Added some, but this root is somewhat still uncertain, especially in the "to hate" sense. I agree that another root (like *bʰer-, which has reflexes in almost all branches) would be much more appropriate for archetype. Reconstructed terms needs some serious cleanup. Doubtful roots have not been an issue so far, and there are still dozens of basic nouns/roots to be added, that have much greater reliability. --Ivan Štambuk 15:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Fan (fe)mail

To a couple folks who've been especially helpful/nice to me during my first few weeks here: Thanks! :-)

Right. Anonymous greeting cards don't work with edit logs, not to mention Sinebots floating around. (Yeah, OK, I forgot to sign ... again!) Snakesteuben 13:51, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

κοινά
Found it. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 22:21, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

 * And θεπτάνων. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 22:51, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Great, the first one is just perfect centum match for Common Balto-Slavic *śoino. By now I totally forgot where exactly I was in need for that last one ^_^. But it's good that you've found a quality resource for these rarely attested forms, it will save a lot of time in the future. --Ivan Štambuk 23:12, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Also, it was noted that you should be asked to take a look at the conversation taking place at Talk:afformation. Thanks.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 23:32, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Romance language verb cleanup project
I'd like to invite you to participate in a community effort to improve the quality of common verbs in Romance languages. I've started a project page at User:EncycloPetey/Latin verbs. The plan to select (or have someone select) one or two new "verbs" each week for cleanup and expansion beyond the basic content. By "verb", I mean the corresponding entry across several Latin-descended languages, and not simply a single entry. Your help with PIE origins of Latin entries would be much appreciated. See the project page for more details and the current selection (listed near the top of the page, as well as highlighted in the tables). --EncycloPetey 07:04, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

 * So, can you help? The current selection is and its descendants.  I think the Latin entry is becoming one of our best verb entries for that language, but it lacks an etymology. --EncycloPetey 03:26, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Sure; it's just that I don't have Latin etymological dictionaries at hand, and there's no quality etymological Latin dictionaries online, so for cognates that I don't know by heart or cannot deduce by rules or are not mentioned as a cognate in resources I do have access to, I'm really helpless until I get to the library (which should upen in 2.5 hours ^_^).. But I'll do my best for the verbs on those list. --Ivan Štambuk 03:35, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks. Do keep in mind that the goal is only one or two per week, both to promote quality expansion of the articles and to avoid editor burnout. So far, I've gotten more filling in of the tables than article editing, unfortunately, so I don;t yet know how successful my efforts will be. --EncycloPetey 03:38, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, Ivan. I think we're done?
Houston, we are now cleared to delete the following categories: Nothing in it, and nothing links there except some user pages and talk archives in a few cases.

Category:Frisian language

Category:Translation requests (Frisian)

Category:Translations to be checked (Frisian)

Looks like Category: Requests (Frisian) doesn't exist.

Winter (User:Snakesteuben 16:09, 4 May 2008 (UTC))

 * Great job. I've noticed that you've be changing "Frisian" to "West Frisian" in lots of those translation tables manually. Do you still think there's a need to bot those? Also, now that you're "job" is done, you're not going to leave us, will you? :) --Ivan Štambuk 16:15, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Re: in lots of those translation tables manually. Do you still think there's a need to bot those?
 *  No, I don't think so. ... I also managed, somehow, to locate the references in the cognates sections and fix them, too! Can you tell if I missed anything?
 * Kindest regards, Winter (User:Snakesteuben 05:32, 5 May 2008 (UTC))

 * I don't think I can (at least not until the next database dump ^_^). Looks like you've done some outstanding work fixing the Frisian. You're toil is extremely appreciated. I'd give you some kind of a wiki-reward had there been those on WT. Thank you very much :-) --Ivan Štambuk 06:02, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. That's really sweet of you to say. Yeah, I didn't think so. I very briefly considered snagging pagegenerators.py -new:nnn but the value of nnn since 10/4 is way to big, and the 25/10 dump seems to have been hosed somehow. That wouldn't give me changed pages, anyway. I do plan another run when there's a successful dump. Hopefully, it'll be a bit less confused next drill. Winter (User:Snakesteuben 04:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC))

dhirad
Anything you can do with this? -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 00:20, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Attention!
Just thought I'd drop you a note about. I figured since you deal with so many languages in your journeys, you might make use of it. And of course, feel quite free to drop it on any grc entries that need it. I'll eventually start a BP topic to let people know about it, but I just don't have the time right now. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:58, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

csb
Kashubian cognates in proto-slavic entries done :) One word (sedą - from Appendix:Proto-Slavic_*sěmę) isn't kashubian word, it should be semiã instead. Pozdrav, Warszk 09:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Category:Sanskrit words needing attention
And it comes complete with an entry (perhaps more, depending on how long until you get this message ;-)). -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 22:41, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Your comment
Thank you for your kind comment. However, the diff you provided does not open properly, so I am unable to evaluate the exact meaning of your communication. All the best to you, 24.29.228.33 18:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you; if I had known about that template, I would have used it. 24.29.228.33 19:14, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Ol Chiki font
I just saw that we have a word in Ol Chiki script, but I can't see it and it's angering me. I did some searching, and only found two fonts which support it. One of them (found here) doesn't work (I don't think it's unicode), and the other, Code 2000, doesn't work on my computer (a rather unfortunate situation). Since you clued me in to Cuneiform and Avestan fonts, I was wondering if you know of any good fonts for this. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 07:24, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Sorry, the only font I could find supporting Unicode 5.1 range for Ol Chiki is Code2000 v1.17.. --Ivan Štambuk 14:48, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi thanks for the welcome.
And uhh... what is the difference between LOL and lol then? O_o Nwspel 19:32, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Nothing that I know of. Nor is there a difference between paracetamol and acetaminophen. But don't you think a dictionary (at least one which aims to have American and British words) should have both?—msh210 ℠ 19:40, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * But they are different words with different spellings. I kant see any diferens between the speling of "LOL" and "lol", kan yw? Nwspel 19:42, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Er, yes. One is capitalized and the other is not. Certainly if we didn't have LOL, someone trying that page would be redirceted to lol, and I think that the converse is also true. But both are very common forms, so, at the least, it doesn't hurt to have both. In my opinion, at least.—msh210 ℠ 19:47, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "It doesn't hurt to have both" - It most certainly doesn't help either. It is confusing, illformative, and inconsistent, something I'm sure you will agree, a project such as this should not be. Nwspel 20:08, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * "unite mechanism"? what's that? and I think lol would take preference over LOL. Capitalizations are rather unneccessary when it comes to a wiktionary. Nwspel 19:44, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * You are more than welcome to review previous discussions on community portals and to propose what you think would be better alternatives. In the meantime, I suggest you just follow the rules around here (both those formal, and those informal no one has written yet, but you'll get a note on your talk page about them sooner or later once you do something uncommon ^_^). --Ivan Štambuk 20:19, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't think you're long enough here to tell what is unnecessary and what terms have preference. --Ivan Štambuk 20:06, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * What does that have to do with it? And I have worked at other language wiktionarys anyway. Nwspel 20:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It does a lot, because given your last comment and your edits here, you just assume that other WTs policies apply here to. All the other WTs combined probably don't have 1/10th of effort that was put here to set the principles/policies/guidelines for editing.
 * and are different nouns in English (and in many other languages that merit inclusion here), that mean different things and are spelled differently. The fact that they just differ just in capitalization of the first letter is absolutely no argument to merge them. Normal dictionaries wouldn't even list them next to each other. --Ivan Štambuk 20:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Well frankly, other wiktionaries are certainly less muddled when it comes to capitalizations than this one, so claiming what you are saying is of no advantage anyway. And normal dictionaries wouldn't list the words separately at all. Nwspel 20:19, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Out of interest which Wiktionaries are not case-sensitive? I'd like to go and see how well it works. Conrad.Irwin 20:22, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Just off the top of my head, Simple English, Ido, Interlingua, Interlingue, Catalan etc etc etc. Nwspel 20:29, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

PIE origins
Ivan, what can you dredge up on the etymology of these Latin words? ,, ,  All four are among the ones I plan to expand greatly (and I've already started on apis and digitus). One of my long-term projects is to create a solid set of examples of fully-expanded entries for concrete Latin nouns. --EncycloPetey 04:10, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Sure, I'll see what can be done ^_^ --Ivan Štambuk 08:11, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

παράδεισος
By the way, when you get a sec, could you help out the etymology on this one (and paradise). Thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 23:46, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Image:Old Persian ra.png
Is this the wrong picture? It looks like its 𐎧 (duplicating the content at Image:Old Persian xa.png) right now, but shouldn't it be 𐎼 ? Very sorry if I am mistaken about this. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 20:19, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Whoops, I've accidentally overwritten with the wrong image Image:Old Persian ra.png(with Image:Old Persian xa.png) when trying to fit them by size. There's and old version on Commons here but I can't find a way to revert the upload. Guess I'll have to reupload it ^_^.

Recent influx of grc
Purely out of curiosity, are you creating entries for all the grc words mentioned in the PIE appendix? -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 01:52, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, wasn't that obvious ^_^ I have another list of my own ofter I finish that, not to mention redlinked Latin and Sanskrit entries.. Why do you ask, am I making much mistakes? --Ivan Štambuk 01:57, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Other than including the vowel length mark in πέταλον, no, not that I've noticed anyway. I was simply curious as to whether there was a method to the madness.  :-)  And just to be clear, I think it an excellent idea.  While I won't have much time to work on them this weekend, I should start knocking them out next week.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:03, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Also, do you need me to give the Greek spellings for the words which are still romanizations, or can you find them alright? I certainly wouldn't be able to find Sanskrit anything from just a transliteration, but I think your understanding of Greek rather surpasses my understanding of Sanskrit.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:19, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Not really, I think I can manage..there are not many ambiguous cases with words differing only in accent marks, and Liddell&Scott search accepts transliterations ^_^. After finishing Greek stuff, I'll take care of Sanskrit entries of that list so that others can refer to it, because lots of those IAST transliterations are wrong (or wrongly lemmatized). Thanks for help ^_^ --Ivan Štambuk 02:26, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

 * If you assemble a separate wish-list for Latin verbs, I can give those entries priority. Before the Categorizing effort started, I was focussed on cleaning up Latin verbs and creating new entries anyway.  Having a list this would be useful to someone would be great guidance. --EncycloPetey 04:33, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks, you'll be contacted ^_^ --Ivan Štambuk 12:43, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Just to let you know, I recently discovered that the upsilon with the circumflex and smooth breathing in edittools was entered incorrectly (by me), and actually had rough breathing. Owing to the fact that the two characters look identical in anything less than 85 point font, I just recently caught and corrected this error.  I see you've already caught one word which was incorrectly spelled with the wrong aspiration.  Be warned, there may be more.  Sorry.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:42, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, it took some zooming to figure out that difference between those.. ^_^ Now I'm double checking all the entries I create, so hopefully the errors will be down to a minimum. --Ivan Štambuk 02:48, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

ustav
Please have a look at ustav and citations:ustav. Thanks. —Michael Z. 2008-05-16 06:17 z

 * Looks good, except that in (Old) Church Slavonic context, ѹставъ/оуставъ refers more to a typikon. I don't have OCS dictionary at hand at the moment, but translating from Finnish dictionary that is the only google hit for ustavъ) it appears to have referred to "border, limit, regulation". So maybe the sense of "writing style" evolved from this OCS context (or they're unrelated?)?
 * Also, the second sense of "of or pertaining to ounce/inch" might be separated under it's own ===Etymology 2=== header.. --Ivan Štambuk 12:41, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks. I've seen typikon mentioned, but I haven't really seen ustav used that way in English. In English a type of manuscript written in uncial is sometimes referred to as "an uncial", so perhaps ustav (typikon) is also named after a writing mode, or vice versa.   is also named after a manuscript form (, annotating manuscript or type with red ink).  Ustav also appears to mean 'constitution' (document) in Serbian and 'institute' in Czech and Slovak.

 * I'll try to clarify the etymology in uncial. It appears to stem from the ounce or inch, but it is not clear what was meant by the original attested "ounce letters" or "inch letters".  I've seen a contradictory mention of something like twelve lines per page, but I can't find the reference right now. —Michael Z. 2008-05-20 17:37 z

 * Some books.google.com hits:, , . So it appears to be used, but italicized and with an explanation of the meaning (typikon), just like the writing style sense..
 * I think that the sense of Croatian/Serbian, Slovene , Czech/Slovak  all come from this Church Slavonic usage of ustavъ as a "church statute", and that this "writing style" sense comes from the way those statutes were originally written.. However, these is all guesswork that needs to be verified. --Ivan Štambuk 18:06, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks, one of those books even used the word in both senses. I've updated ustav and citations:ustav, and created . —Michael Z. 2008-05-20 20:58 z

hi there
Hi IS (I can call you IS?). Thanks for the welcome. some entries, which I wrote, have been deleted, for example cheese and onion and salt and vinegar and salt 'n' shake. What's wrong with those entries? --Borganised 13:27, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

 * The first two were sum of parts (meaning of the compound terms should be idiomatic to merit inclusion, see WT:CFI), and the salt 'n' shake was deleted because with the description of being tosh ^_^. AFAICS, Salt 'n' Shake says it's a brand, and most Google hits give it uppercased, so it should not be formatted as a common noun? Anyhow, take a look at the other entries at Category:Trademarks on how to format these. At least until someone places and  on the entry inquiring about the relevance of Salt 'n' Shake brand ^_^ --Ivan Štambuk 13:38, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Warnings
How do I give them? Thanks. Nwspel 15:08, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Just transclude, or other wonderful stuff inside Category:User warning templates ^_^ --Ivan Štambuk 15:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks. Is there not one for civility, like on wikipedia? O_o Nwspel 15:16, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Dunno, if you can't find it, than there is none ^_^. Half of templates in that category is just redundant and needs deletion, and I presume some important ones (like for civility) need yet to be made (i.e. copy/pasted from WP ^_^).

 * Ok thanks; I guess that's another thing for me to focus on ;) Nwspel 15:21, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

главоболие
Would you be willing to clean this up? I'm guessing that the etymology applies to them both, but am unsure, and thought it best to leave it to someone who knows these things. Many thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:25, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 08:27, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

chimera
I feel uneasy that the mythological sense isn't there at all now. I think it's often written without the initial capital. Widsith 09:39, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

 * But the proper way to write it would be uppercased, right? AFAIK, it was the name of the monster, not the species of it.. --Ivan Štambuk 09:44, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

It was. But I think in later mythological writing, not to mention modern fantasy writing, it has been taken for the name of a type of creature rather than a single one. Widsith 09:45, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

 * I see. So Chimera refers only to Greek mythology sense, and chimera more generally to later usage as a type of creature. --Ivan Štambuk 09:48, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

cognates
Re: offer. I thought that a cognate was a word derived from the same root. Would it have made a difference if at offer a common root between the Germanic and Latin was actually shown? I think that cognates don't usually give us much value, but I haven't had a good reason to delete them. Please help me understand your rationale. DCDuring TALK 14:46, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, derived from the same root, but where genetic relationship is present. Etymological hierarchy on Wiktionary doesn't make the difference between the "naturally" derived lexemes (i.e. inherited ones) and those that were borrowed, but we don't need to repeat the same mistake in the prose lines of ===Etymology=== sections.
 * Strictly speaking, Latin =  +, the latter which is a real cognate to English , showing /f/-/b/ Latin-Englisc correspondence, in accordance with Grimm's law (cf. Appendix:List of Proto-Indo-European roots/bʰ if you're more interested ^_^). So yes - had they've both sprung from the same PIE/Proto-Germanic (suppose Old Latin word was borrowed into Common Germanic) form, they'll be cognates, but they haven't so they're not ^_^ --Ivan Štambuk 16:00, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you!
Thank you very much for your warm welcome. Baisemain 19:11, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Category:Articles which need Sogdian script
Hey, I just created this, but as I investigate a bit further, I'm wondering if I should have simply used. The script seems to be a descendant of Syriac. However, it appears that Unicode has some Sogdian characters in their Syriac set. Any thoughts? -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 23:30, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, it appears to be extended Syriac range...could possibly require specialized fonts for stylistic purposes (though I have no idea whether such exist). Do as you like.. --Ivan Štambuk 23:53, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

capiō
This new Latin entry is the current verb for improvement, and so could use a good etymology. --EncycloPetey 17:10, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Unnecessary edits
OK, I see what you mean. I should tell you though that languages fascinate me and I am prone to doing such things. I think the declension table should stay there though.

I've put declension and example back. Gherkinmad 00:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Re: Category:Aramaic words needing attention
Hey Ivan, what you're doing is working with the absolute/construct states of the noun, while I use the emphatic state. The words בר and יד are in the absolute/construct states, while their emphatic versions are ברא and אידא. What I planned on doing was first creating the article in the emphatic state, then think of some way to link it up with the other states (though I haven't figured out a good way to do it yet). --334a 15:15, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

 * There's a huge debate as to what constitutes the lemma of Aramaic words. Eastern grammarians say it's the emphatic form while Western grammarians say it's the absolute form, so in this way the article on Aramaic is somewhat biased. CAL usually has the absolute form followed by the emphatic form, but most other Eastern-based lexicons have the emphatic form as the lemma (like peshitta.org's lexicon: http://www.peshitta.org/lexicon/). Some words can't be in any other state except the emphatic anyway, so that can cause problems.

 * I would prefer if every state of the noun had its own article (though in the case of most masculine and some feminine words, the absolute and construct states are the same). Bunching everything up into template:arc-noun will make it too long and ugly to look at. I was thinking of something like an Aramaic version of template:he-decl-noun. Since words have different plurals in the different states, the arc-noun template would have to be used accordingly. --334a 14:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thank you very much for your welcome, and for those useful links. Since your message was sent, I already read the FAQ,"Criteria for inclusion", and all the others... (except from "How to edit a page" and "How to start a page", those seem exactly like the ones on Wikipedia) As you can see on my contributions, I'm mainly focusing in Portuguese translations by now. And yes, I liked the place and decided to stay. Thanks. Daniel. 20:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

nāsus
It looks to me as though the various Indo-European words for nose could use a good etymology. --EncycloPetey 05:12, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

कोश
Fuck me. Fantastic work – well done! Wiktionary is gradually becoming a wonderful resource for extinct languages. Widsith 09:27, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks ^_^ --Ivan Štambuk 16:12, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Some completely unrelated thoughts
First, the PIE divinities stuff is sweet, and I would love to see more of that. Second, I'm thinking more and more that rfscript is a bad approach, which should be deprecated. Just because someone knows Hebrew, does not mean that they know Yiddish or Aramaic. Just because someone knows Hindi, does not mean that they will know Sanskrit, Marathi, etc. And let's not even get into cuneiform. I think a better approach is to make use of, because if someone knows Sanskrit, they'll.....well.....know Sanskrit. Although, perhaps the cat naming should be changed (while the template is still young), from "xxx entries needing attention" to "entries needing xxx attention", to make it feel more natural to put on an English page, or  on a grc page. Your thoughts? Finally, I second Widsith's above comment. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 08:53, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I completely agree with everything you said. {rfscript} scales well with 1-1 mapping between language (family) and script, but for everything else is horrible. I've just put the other day a for some Mongolian verb.. Arabic and Cyrillic script are used to write simply too many divergent languages, each using it's own special transliteration/romanization scheme, for this template to be used like that. Maybe Stephen doesn't really care, but the rest of us.. ^_^
 * More PIE divinities soon coming.. --Ivan Štambuk 09:20, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

RE:Welcoming inactive users
Well, they just created accounts- it takes time to become active, so I was just going ahead and welcoming them. I mean, being inactive for just a few hours is not that big of a deal. Teh Rote 23:42, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

rfscript redux
Just thought I'd let you know about this. Because of this, we may want to consider deprecating certain categories, such as Category:Articles which need Old Persian Cuneiform script. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 07:44, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I don't understand how this deprecates that category? So for scripts that match only to one language, like Avestan, OP, Phoenician etc., lang= should or should not be used? You say in BP that lang= should be omitted in that case, but that leaves us with the above category.. --Ivan Štambuk 07:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I guess I was thinking the above could be a subcat of Category:Articles which need Cuneiform script. I realize that the OP cuneiform is a different type than, say, Sumerian cuneiform, but it's still called cuneiform (that and I can never remember the full name of the cat :-))  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 07:54, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Well, we could categorize Ugaritic and OP script requests under Category:Articles which need Cuneiform script, but I strongly advise that we keep them separate requests (because the alphabet/abjad is totally different from that of Summero-Akkadian). If you think it's needed, you could add to {rfscript} support for ISO 15924 code names. That would save a lot of typing (Xpeo instead of Old Persian Cuneiform) and the need to memorize script categories names. Something like a template with one big switch that would convert ISO 15924 codes to script names, and default behavior to just returning the forwarded parameter (when no match occurred). Or that would be just overkill.. :) --Ivan Štambuk 08:03, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

 * :-) Yes, that might be a bit overly complicated.  However, it wouldn't be too difficult to have a switch, whereby if given a 15924, it could simply use it instead of the standard .  I'll have to look into those codes.  (Oh, and you do realize that the vast majority of the Devanagari script requests are for Sanskrit, right? ;-))  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 08:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I do ^_^ it's just that some of those Sanskrit {rfscript} transliterations are misspellings (n for ṇ, a for ā etc.) that are not so trivial to find in the dictionaries and verify etymologically. It's a slow, never ending process.. --Ivan Štambuk 08:22, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Hebrew Sofit forms
Top of the mornin' (or whatever time it is where you live) to ya', Ivan!

Be aware of the fact that, in the Hebrew alphabet, certain letters have a different form at the end of a word ("Sofit"). Namely, the letters Kaph (כ -> ך), Meem (מ -> ם), Nun (נ -> ן), Pe (פ -> ף), and Sade (צ -> ץ). So it's generally incorrect to have "חצינ" instead of "חצין", but "חצינא" is correct since Nun isn't in the final position. You can find out more at the Wikipedia article on the Hebrew alphabet. --334a 15:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Hey, thanks for fixing that :) I'm not completely comfortable with Hebrew alphabet, and that's the reason I keep placing, so that someone knowledgeable can double check those. I just found a decent transliterator here, so hopefully those won't occur again ^_^ I wouldn't have been creating Aramaic entries had I not known that someone can check them soon enough! Cheers. --Ivan Štambuk 15:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

käppä
As my interest had been awoken, I went to the library to consult their collection of dictionaries. Your first proposal (reconstructed base form for käpälä) was quite right. See käppä. --Hekaheka 21:57, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the effort! :) --Ivan Štambuk 22:04, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Transliterations
Hey Ivan Štambuk, How are you doing? Well, thank you very much for letting me know, before it's too late. I'll probably taking a little break for now. I feel like I'm the only one working on the Thai parts. Aww, I'm going to have to go back to those pages again. :_( Thanks again anyway for your wonderful comment. :)--Alifshinobi 02:40, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

ptdr article
I would like to add content to the ptdr article, but apparently it has been protected from creation by you. From looking at the deletion log, it seems that the article has been mainly used as nonsense, with content that had nothing to do with the definition of the term, but I would actually like to put in a definition, being that it stands for pété de rire (literally, broken from laughing). Thank you.

translation of structure
Thanks, sorry!

I
Hi. Can you tell me why you undid my additions of kochia, uchi, atai, and asshi to the Japanese translations of the entry for I? Some conversation before deleting at least would be appreciated. Wakablogger 02:37, 23 June 2008 (UTC)Wakablogger.

 * Whoops, I though I was just undoing your addition of synonyms to the sense of  of  etc. Would you be kind to reinstate the translations or should I do it? :) --Ivan Štambuk 02:41, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Why are you undoing the addition of my ass? It's a synonym of the pronoun "I" in English. Wakablogger 02:49, 23 June 2008 (UTC)Wakablogger

 * You've put it under the the ===Noun=== sense which it certainly is not "synonymous" with. We still need to discuss in TR how exactly is a "pronoun", and until that is resolved you should refrain from linking to that sense from other entries. --Ivan Štambuk 03:07, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Okay. I disagree with you and have provided linguistic proof of that (other proof I'm sure is easily available) in the discussion, but I'll wait until agreement is reached. Wakablogger 03:11, 23 June 2008 (UTC)Wakablogger

One
I was working on Ancient Greek numerals, and noticed Appendix:Proto-Indo-European *sḗm. As I investigate further, it appears that a number of very closely related PIE roots gave rise to a number of very important words in various languages. It also appears that the full inflection of Greek εἷς comes direct from PIE (which is interesting considering the masculine/neuter and feminine forms appear completely different). I think that it'd be interesting to see this page expanded a bit, if you have the time and motivation. And yes, I realize that you must tire of people lacking PIE skills always whining at you to help them, and thus you should feel no guilt if you don't feel like doing this (when was the last time I did anything for you? :-)) -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 05:20, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

 * OK, will do *sḗm later (and also *oykos/*oynos - the real PIE numeral for one). At least for numerals cognates shouldn't be too hard to look up ^_^. Don't worry about recent neglecting of PIE - I get demotivated from time to time as I find other things more interesting. --Ivan Štambuk 10:13, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

New number template
Please have a look at, which you can see in use on the pages for and. The template's talk page has extensive documentation.

Please refrain from using the template for now, as it has been undergoing major editorial changes today, and may change again, based on additional feedback. --EncycloPetey 02:30, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

The template is ready for use now. Also, could you please add etymologies to the Latin numerals, , and ? I've finally decided to start doing something about the Latin cardinals, and these are where I've started. I've also got a new Appendix:Latin cardinal numerals underway, which should show why those three little numerals are taking so much more effort than all the others will. --EncycloPetey 07:58, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Great, I'll get right onto those (proper treating of PIE numerals is long overdue!) --Ivan Štambuk 08:00, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks. --EncycloPetey 17:33, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

And now ; my sources don't even trace this back to PIE, but the Latin wiktionary does. --EncycloPetey 03:35, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

ὁρμή
Would you be willing to check the Sanskrit spelling on this. It's linked from the 'pedia's featured article, thus giving us a little extra incentive to avoid looking stupid. Many thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 01:34, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Many thanks. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 03:36, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Declension requested
Hello Ivan Štambuk,

I saw you have created some significant Croation months pages. I onyl have one question: could you please add the declension for the Croation words 'listopad' and 'studeni'? Thanks in advance!

Kind regards, Tvdm 17:06, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Done. is a deadjectival noun so it follows adjectival declension (these are very rare in the language..). For future reference, you can use HML site, which lemmatizes/inflects fine in 99% of cases. --Ivan Štambuk 22:59, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much. I needed this for the month articles at the Dutch Wiktionary. So, you've helped en.wikt and nl.wikt alot! Tvdm 15:58, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Latin etymologies
Instead of pestering you each time, I've started populating Category:Requests for etymology (Latin). Most of the contents right now are the mulitples of 10, whose etymologies I don't known I don't add many items to the category very often, since most Latin words come either from Ancient Greek or from other Latin words, so only occasional checks should keep the category population down. --EncycloPetey 20:27, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Horizontally aligned templates
Hi Ivan, I'd like to use your idea of horizontally aligned templates for two Hungarian templates: hu-decl and hu-pos. One is the regular declension, the other is the possessive. The possessive would be always on the right side. I looked at your hr-decl template and tried to implement it, but it does not work. Would you have time to help? Thanks. --Panda10 22:37, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok. Thanks. --Panda10 17:14, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

ສາມາດ
Any chance you could help with the etymology of this...? Ƿidsiþ 18:32, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Nice one. Thanks Ivan.  Ƿidsiþ 07:47, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

pravopiždžija
You may wish to see Requests_for_verification.—msh210 ℠ 22:12, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Happy birthday
Sretan rođendan! (brojke su naopako napisane :)) --Suradnik13 16:12, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Sretan ti rođendan Ivane! :-)) --Roberta F. 16:39, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

LOL tnx ;) --Ivan Štambuk 16:53, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

A small request
I've recently created Appendix:Isograms, and it's reasonably well-stocked on English, but we need some other languages. Would you mind adding a few from Croation or some of the other languages you speak? Thanks, Teh Rote 23:50, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

 * OK. I'll need to write a small program to find long isograms in my word lists first.. --Ivan Štambuk 23:56, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

User:Speckler
This new user has begun adding many PIE comparison tables to his user namespace. Could you lend a guiding hand? --EncycloPetey 19:53, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

palma
I'm not sure what you were trying to accomplish with this edit, but it didn't work. The result was to display palma#Latin in place of a link. The template has been set up to allow counter-hacking, but not be template inclusion. --EncycloPetey 18:39, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

granicyś
Hello. What sources were you using when you wrote this article? Recently I have discovered, that this word does not appear in Lower Sorbian online dictionary at http://dolnoserbski.de --Derbeth talk 11:16, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, there's another verb, "granicowaś", but I won't fix it at the moment, because I'm waiting for the anser of my message sent to the entry's author on pl.wiktionary. As soon as I get it, I'll also fix the word on en.wikt. --Derbeth talk 12:25, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

imidž
Hi Ivan. Can you separate the [[imidž]] page into two languages please --Jackofclubs 06:44, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Also mnogo. --Jackofclubs 06:45, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

WOTD listings for Nov
I've started a workpage where I'm keeping track of these. The preliminary list for November is now on the page (subject to additions or changes if problems arise), and any help with preparing the entries (especially etymology) will be appreciated. --EncycloPetey 17:57, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

gusla
I rolled back your edit here, on the principle that it's always better to have more information than less. The soft redirect to gusle is still there as an Alternative forms header. Ƿidsiþ 16:34, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * But duplicating definition lines, translations, etymologies etc. would be major maintenance nightmare. If they're pronounced the same way, they should be linked as alt. spellings not alt. forms. --Ivan Štambuk 17:27, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

 * I tend to agree with Ivan on this. Alt spellings like this need to have a central page with all info, and a bunch of sattelite soft redirects.  Otherwise it's simply not maintainable.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 20:34, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * OK, I'll also "redirect" the etymology, because gusla spelling comes from Bulgarian/Macedonian; in Croatian/Serbian gusle is plurale tantum --Ivan Štambuk 16:08, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Font spec for template:Cyrs
I copied the font specification from the template to MediaWiki:Common.css. On my machine, with most of those fonts, the size looks good set to 1.37em. Any objection to adding that? We're discussing it at WT:GP. —Michael Z. 2008-11-20 20:09 z
 * Seems fine, no objections by me! I wouldn't mind if someone utilized a bot to add sc=Cyrs to all Old Church Slavonic Cyrillic entries both as L2 and to translation tables. --Ivan Štambuk 21:04, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

 * You mean like this and this, right? —Michael Z. 2008-11-20 21:19 z

 * Yes. Not mentioning the fact that 95% of ~2k OCS entries needs redirection to Unicode 5.1 compliant spellings (and possibly generating Glagolitic alternative spellings as both of the scripts are equally "valid").. AutoFormat is already engaged in substituting the old sc= templates with new ones, (RUChar > Cyrl), maybe it's time for it to add them whenever they are appropriate?! --Ivan Štambuk 21:25, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Is {Deva} working correctly now? I made some more changes, but I hope the output is now the same as before I started meddling. Let me know if any other script templates are misbehaving. —Michael Z. 2008-11-27 03:01 z
 * It's OK now, thanks for fixing it. --Ivan Štambuk 03:02, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Requests for etymology
Ivan, your user page links to Category:Requests for etymology (la) instead of Category:Requests for etymology (Latin). Is this a purposeful choice or a mistake? --EncycloPetey 01:52, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Whoops, a mistake! ^_^ --Ivan Štambuk 01:54, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It looks like other people have been making the same mistake. The  is supposed to used the full language name, not the ISO code, but some people have used the ISO code and we now have a mix of Etymology request category names.  I've started correcting some of them, but there are still quite a few to be corrected, inclluding most of the Slavic language categories. --EncycloPetey 04:44, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed it transparently via . This issue came up some time ago in the GP with IIRC. Folks will need to update their notification categories manually though.  --Ivan Štambuk 04:57, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks. That will move all the entries then, but the existing bad categories will need to be deleted once the entries have automagically moved. I'm also adding cat links and info to the correct categories to sweeten their use.  --EncycloPetey 05:00, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:Ivan Štambuk/Archive 2


text:
sulfating

Alternative forms

 * sulphating

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: sulfating


text: tógann

title: tógann


text:
sulphating

Alternative forms

 * sulfates

title: sulphating


text:
Talk:هل

What is the purpose of ====Translations==== section on this FL entry? --Ivan Štambuk 15:20, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

 * I believe it was put here and on other pages that have the particle because there isn’t an English equivalent for this where the words could be entered. —Stephen 15:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Probably better to use the header See also for this purpose. —Stephen 15:45, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Beside here, I see the translations also duplicated at Mongolian юү, both added by Hippitrail. How about relocating this to the translation table of do:, first etymology, verbal sense, meaning #6 "A syntactic marker in questions." ? --Ivan Štambuk 16:33, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

 * I don’t think do is a good match for these. Even though do has an interrogative function, it is different from these particles, and it would be just as appropriate to associate them with is, am, are, was, can, etc. (is it good?, are you here?, was it too loud?, can I have one?). In English, it really isn’t the verb do or is, it’s a construction. Sometimes the translation of the interrogative do may include one of these particles, but do is more about grammatical construction than particles. Besides these particles, interrogative do has much closer equivalents in some languages such as German, but even with German, it is too technical and complex to describe in a word or two in a translation section. —Stephen 17:28, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Well, it would be maintenance nightmare to duplicate same translations at 8+ articles. Also, given that listed languages belong to totally divergent language families, I have serious doubts that the translations among them would be in any case more precise.
 * As you probably know, in Slavic there is this *da, also coming from verb *dati (< PIE *deh₃, the very same one that gave English ^_^) that is usually classified as particle/adverb/conjunction depending on it's grammatical function. I am beginning to wonder whether it's the same case here for English, which is usually translated without modal/auxilliary verb in constructions such as "Do you " (as opposed to other verbs such as can/may..). That sort of do: looks to me less of a verb, and more of a conjunction. --Ivan Štambuk 17:47, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

 * There are some small differences among them, but they are pretty close. The most divergent would be between the Arabic/Persian/Urdu/Hindi/Mongolian on the one hand (initial, with limited or optional use), and Chinese/Japanese/Khmer/Thai on the other (final, broad use), but all of them are particles and have the same meaning. I don’t think there will be a nightmare with these. They’ve been around for quite a while now, with only the minor changes that I’ve recently made to them.
 * But I am certain that interrogative do is a true verb, not a conjunction. It has to do with a class of auxiliary verbs called operators, fundamental to English grammar but not found in most other languages. Operators take do in the interrogative or negative constructions, while regular auxiliaries do not: I did not get run over by a bus. Did I get run over by a bus? (get is an operator). BUT NOT...*I did not be run over by a bus; NOR: *Did I be run over by a bus? (be is an auxiliary verb) —Stephen 18:12, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Conversely, with auxiliaries we can say: I wasn't run over by a bus; Was I run over by a bus? (was is an auxiliary); BUT NOT...*I gotn’t run over by a bus; *got I run over by a bus? (got is an operator). —Stephen 18:24, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Arabic, Persian and Sanskrit “cardamom”
So, since you say,, the 🇨🇬 is from the root , is  a false cognate? I would not be surprised if the Arabic is from Sanskrit considering that cardamom is a particularly important spice in India. And the whole root derives from the spice name? Coherence between the Sanskrit, Persian, and Arabic page needs to be achieved. Fay Freak (talk) 15:01, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
 * , do we know for sure that the Arabic word was borrowed via Sanskrit? Sanskrit एला itself comes from Proto-Dravidian and Cardamom is native to the Western Ghats in South India especially Tamil, Malayalam and Kannada speaking regions. There are a lot of records of ancient trade links over sea between the region comprising what's modern Kerala and Tamil Nadu and the rest of the world. A number of words have been borrowed as a consequence. There're Tamil loanwords in Old Hebrew, for instance. Can someone let me know if there's any support for the word being borrowed into Arabic from Sanskrit and not directly? -- Sundar (talk) 10:15, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * How this this a false cognate? Persian loves adding prothetic-h to words. -- 19:10, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * You replied to an obsolete question. I asked that when the Arabic page looked as though the Arabic word were native then I noticed the Sanskrit. Fay Freak (talk) 21:19, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

 * I'm certainly no expert on Arabic, but it's true that the plant isn't native to anywhere near Arabic-speaking regions, and the early Arabs would only have gotten it (directly or indirectly) from India. Perhaps the explanation is something like phono-semantic matching in Chinese, where a native word that's similar, phonetically and semantically, is used instead of the original loan word. Of course, the main driver of that in Chinese is the need to have a character to spell it with, but the priniple isn't completely alien to other cases. Chuck Entz (talk) 14:05, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Ultimate source
, thanks for the explanation in your edit summary in your revert of my edit. However, I want to know if there's any significance to stop at Sanskrit for the source or is it arbitrary? I think it's useful to show the original proto-dravidian source, especially because Cardamom is native to the Western Ghats of South India. -- Sundar (talk)
 * Generally, we don't follow through on the whole etymology of a word if a link to the parent entry exists. This especially goes for non-English works. That said, I don't mind it in this case and have added it back, but take note of the formatting I used. -- 19:07, 29 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the explanation and adding it back. Also the tip on formatting. -- Sundar (talk) 11:18, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:هل


text: tógaim

title: tógaim


text: tógaimid

title: tógaimid


text: itheann

title: itheann


text: heki

title: heki


text:
postpubescent

Adjective

 * 1) That occurs after puberty.

Noun

 * 1) A person who has completed puberty; a sexually mature person.

Synonyms

 * ; see also Thesaurus:adult

title: postpubescent


text: ithim

title: ithim


text:
Talk:كلب

Etymologies
These are not three different etymologies. What is marked as etymology 3 is just a verbal noun from etymology one. Etymology 2 (rabies, thirst), is also from etymology one. I believe that etymology 2 (dog) is also related to etymology one, although it is possible that the dog sense preceded the verb sense instead of the other way around. Arabic dictionaries place the dog beneath the verb, but it may be more a conventional order than the true order. —Stephen 15:42, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Do Arabic dictionaries mention Proto-Semitic terms at all, or try to explain everything synchronically by morphological decomposition (root + transfix) ? --Ivan Štambuk 15:06, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

 * No, I haven’t seen an Arabic dictionary that mentions Proto-Semitic. But most words are regularly-formed derivations of the root, and the root is almost always the 3rd masculine singular perfective verb. Most cases of backformation that I know about where the verb evolved after the noun are borrowings from other languages (e.g., تلفن). But what occurred in Proto-Semitic I can’t say. —Stephen 14:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Well technically you can always analyse a word in two different ways:
 * synchronically, with respect to regular morphological rules. So one can say that e.g. English =  +, Russian  =  +  etc.
 * diachronically, with respect to ancestor language (either older form of language, or reconstructed etymons).
 * Recently in BP there was a discussion about this "morphological etymologies", to what extent are they correct, i.e. is it more proper to say that =  +, or is more proper to say that it's inhereted from Middle English smoothenesse.
 * Strictly speaking, they are both correct, and paper dictionaries often employ both techniques. However, precedence should be given to the latter approach, whenever there's a clear evidence for it.
 * Some months ago there was this User:Athang1504 who added Ancient Greek etymologies based on 12th century Etymologicon magnum. Needless to say, back than historical linguistics didn't exist, and the language was explained in terms of itself, as a self-contained explanatory instrument. While this may sound a good approach for languages that retain a good deal of predictive morphology (such as most Semitic languages, of IE that would be Sanskrit and a few other long time extinct ones), it's relatively pointless for language such as English that has over it's history exhibited extensive intrusions of foreign borrowings, and massivly changed it's internal structure (even pronouns and adjective gradability patterns were borrowed and morphologized).
 * For English (and other ones) those two approaches can basically co-exist. However for Semitic languages, there might be a general problem, because now it seems collision may occur. I've also came across a fewHebrew lexemes that mention "from root a-b-c" in their etymologies. Some subsense (or subderivative) of what is traditionally grouped as ==Etymology 1== from a basic lexical root might be fairly confindently reconstructed, almost beyond any doubt, to ancient prehistory.
 * I believe is one of those terms, as it is attested in basically all relevant Semitic branches ("Semitic" here used only in strict linguistic sense) over the course of 3500+ years. Akkadian kalbu is attesed in Old Babylonian period, which is dated 1950 – 1530 BCE, and the Ethiopian Semitic languages have had basically no contant with their western brethren for for at least 1-2 thousand years before that. Obviously the "dog" sense existed long time ago, because it's presence in all the Semitic branches cannot be explain by any other means other than by inheritance from a common source. It is very unlikely that all of those languges independently developed the "dog" sense from the root that meant "rage" or "covet".
 * Feel free to rearrange the etymologies as you think is best, but pleas keep somewhere there, for it is of most importance, especially in the light of fact of it's usual absence from lots of Arabic dictionaries, as you say. --Ivan Štambuk 15:29, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, I remember the User:Athang1504 stuff, and I agree that it’s better to have < Middle English smoothenesse whenever possible. I rearranged كلب the way I think is best. The noun and adjective forms are made from the verb in the same way that we add -ing, -er, or -ed in English, or in Russian from -ать to -ение and -ающий. —Stephen 17:16, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:كلب


text:
pískat

Etymology
.

Verb

 * 1) to whistle
 * 2) to wheeze

title: pískat


text:
pískání

Noun

 * 1) whistling
 * 2) wheezing
 * 1) wheezing

title: pískání


text: ithimid

title: ithimid


text:
Talk:fixer-upper

fixer-upper
I always thought this to mean someone who fixes stuff. --Keene 15:47, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Widespread use in US, anyway, for houses and cars and, occasionally, furniture, appliances, etc.. DCDuring TALK 16:00, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Word. —Ruakh TALK 16:14, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Agreed. Very widespread.  Atelaes 16:16, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've heard it used more commonly for the person who does the fixing, but the "to be fixed" definition seems right also.--Dmol 17:00, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Don't clearly recollect hearing agent sense, but it wouldn't surprise me. Is this only US ? DCDuring TALK 17:25, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

 * In the UK this means a person good at fixing things, but never to a thing that needs fixing. SemperBlotto 17:36, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Both are common in the US. --Connel MacKenzie 17:46, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

 * added additional sense, removed tag - 15:48, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:fixer-upper


text:
Talk:pegamoid

I went to school in 1939 at the Nautical College, Pangbourne. We had waterproof coats similar to oilskins, and these were called pegamoids. This is an additional desciption to those you already have.

title: Talk:pegamoid


text:
ametistihapero

Noun

 * 1) species of brittlegill,

title: ametistihapero


text:
aprikoosihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: aprikoosihapero


text:
aurinkohapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: aurinkohapero


text:
haarukkahapero

Noun

title: haarukkahapero


text:
hakahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: hakahapero


text:
harmohapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: harmohapero


text:
haurashapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: haurashapero


text:
havupuistohapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: havupuistohapero


text:
helohapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: helohapero


text:
hunajahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: hunajahapero


text:
häivehapero

Noun

 * 1) An edible brittlegill,.

title: häivehapero


text:
härmähapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: härmähapero


text:
jauhojalkahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: jauhojalkahapero


text:
jodihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: jodihapero


text:
kalvashapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: kalvashapero


text:
kampahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill.

title: kampahapero


text:
φυλακισμένος

Adjective

 * 1) imprisoned

Noun

 * 1) prisoner person incarcerated in a prison
 * 2) prisoner any person held against his or her will

title: φυλακισμένος


text:
kangassillihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: kangassillihapero


text:
Talk:Helen

'Helen' is also a surname, although very rare.--88.104.113.25 16:09, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Helen


text:
karvashapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: karvashapero


text:
kaunonahkahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: kaunonahkahapero


text:
Citations:livescan

 * noun

 * verb

title: Citations:livescan


text:
keltahapero

Noun

 * 1) yellow swamp russula,

title: keltahapero


text: keltatäplähapero

title: keltatäplähapero


text:
kirjolehtohapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: kirjolehtohapero


text:
kirjonahkahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: kirjonahkahapero


text:
koivunlehtohapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: koivunlehtohapero


text:
koivunpuistohapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: koivunpuistohapero


text:
konnanhapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: konnanhapero


text:
korpihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: korpihapero


text:
korpimantelihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: korpimantelihapero


text:
atopie

Noun

 * 1) atopy

Related terms

 * See

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) atopy

title: atopie


text:
kosteikkohapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: kosteikkohapero


text:
kultahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: kultahapero


text:
kupuhapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula coerulea.

title: kupuhapero


text: Citations:livescanned

title: Citations:livescanned


text:
kuusenlehtohapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula piceetorum.

title: kuusenlehtohapero


text:
kuusihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula queletii.

title: kuusihapero


text:
kyyhkyhapero

Noun

 * 1) charcoal burner,

title: kyyhkyhapero


text:
atopický

Adjective

 * 1) atopic

Related terms

 * See

title: atopický


text: kyynelhapero

title: kyynelhapero


text:
lehtosillihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula graveolens.

title: lehtosillihapero


text:
lepikkohapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula alnetorum.

title: lepikkohapero


text:
mantelihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: mantelihapero


text:
Verwandtschaft

Etymology
. Cognate with 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) relationship connection or association; kinship

title: Verwandtschaft


text:
nokkoshapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula urens.

title: nokkoshapero


text:
monivärihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: monivärihapero


text:
munahapero

Noun

 * 1) Any of species  of brittlegills.

title: munahapero


text: mustahapero

title: mustahapero


text:
nahkahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: nahkahapero


text:
nahkajalkahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: nahkajalkahapero


text:
nokihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula albonigra.

title: nokihapero


text:
norjanhapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula norvegica.

title: norjanhapero


text:
hack it

Verb

 * 1)  To cope; to be successful in something despite adversity.
 * I don't know if I can hack it here; the work is too hard for me.

title: hack it


text:
orvonhapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula neglecta.

title: orvonhapero


text:
oliivihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula postiana.

title: oliivihapero


text:
paljakkahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: paljakkahapero


text:
palterohapero

Noun

 * 1) The flirt or,.

title: palterohapero


text:
pelargonihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: pelargonihapero


text:
persikkahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: persikkahapero


text:
pippurihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula badia.

title: pippurihapero


text:
Skrotum

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) scrotum the bag of the skin and muscle that contains the testicles

title: Skrotum


text: polttiaishapero

title: polttiaishapero


text:
punajalkahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: punajalkahapero


text:
purppurahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: purppurahapero


text: pyökkihapero

title: pyökkihapero


text: Template:pt-verb form of

title: Template:pt-verb form of


text:
rahkahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula sphagnophila.

title: rahkahapero


text:
Talk:postal code

postal code
rfv-sense: zip code. The ZIP code or zip code is the postal code for US addresses, an example of a postal code, not the definition of postal code. US speakers may use zip code to refer to non-US postal codes. I have what I think is the right sense of "postal code", the same as "post code". I am not familiar with the English names (if any) for each nation's postal code system. DCDuring TALK 19:31, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

In the UK it is a postcode (all one word). SemperBlotto 22:15, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

 * How do UK speakers refer to non-UK postal codes? Is there a generic term (like "postal code") or do they just use the term for UK addresses to refer to any country's system, including the US ZIP code ? US speakers are carelessly chauvinistic about it, often using ZIP code or zip code for all. DCDuring TALK 22:48, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

 * That's not the result of chauvanism, just blithe ignorance. --EncycloPetey 05:25, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Delete this as a redundant (viz, included in the other sense) sense.—msh210 ℠ 17:54, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree. Zip code is mentioned as a synonym, as is correct. Hekaheka 19:44, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I have amended the entry to show zip code, ZIP code, and postcode as hyponyms (God help us!) for "postal code". I will make the corresponding changes for zip code entries, but leave postcode and post code alone until this is all settled. DCDuring TALK 20:33, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Which is a hyponym of what, depends on point of view. Americans probably think that all postal/zip codes are zip codes but the term postal code may be used of the foreign zip codes. The Brits probably have an opposite view. Any good reason why they cannot be synonyms? Hekaheka 09:07, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Speakers in each country probably refer to all postal codes by the local name or a shortening thereof. Each entry should have that sense. I am not sure that you could call ZIP Code and postcode synonyms because they are not - for the same speaker. They are some kind of coordinate terms. I've been waiting for some simplification to strike me or some other contributor. DCDuring TALK 10:39, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Let me throw something in just for the fun of it... In Germany we use the PLZ (Post LeitZahl = Post RoutingNumber), for all postcodes in the world, including the zip code in the US... and I always have known it as either ZIP code or even postal code, while I grew up in the US, and only recently have heard the term postcode (Brit.)...
 * 2005, Nuray Aykin, Usability and Internationalization of Information Technology, Routledge, Page 41,
 * "For example, the corporate directory for AT&T, a US-based company, includes names and job... building, town, city, country, zip/postal code, and so on."
 * and if I am not mistaken... "Routledge is part of the Taylor & Francis Group, a trading division of Informa UK Ltd. " - just my 2 pennies worth (2 cents for the Americans and Europeans)...--BigBadBen 16:17, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

 * I don't get the point of the "Informa" mention.
 * The use in Germany of the terminology that, strictly speaking, ought to only apply to the in-Germany "postal code" to include all postal codes is the pattern that I would expect. Only in situations where one had to remind someone about the more-than-just-German possibilities that one would use a more generic term, like a German equivalent of "postal code". "Post code" couldn't well serve the purpose in the UK because it is a homonym for the local-only postal code. DCDuring TALK 16:53, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

 * The "Informa" mention, was to show, that to an outsider the use of postal code by an English puplisher deems it as a correct usage aswell in that part of the world... I mentioned it in lieu of SemperBlotto's remark above and I agree with the ignorance of most (not all) americans when they use ZIP code for all postal codes, but gotta say this in defense: Everyone uses shortcuts in speech and writing almost everyday... (but americans are world champs here)...
 * unfortunately, there is no generic term other than PLZ as it translates into postal routing number (code)...--BigBadBen 18:00, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:postal code


text:
rubiinihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula rubra.

title: rubiinihapero


text:
ruskohapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula mustelina.

title: ruskohapero


text:
rusohapero

Noun

 * 1) rosy russula,  syn. Russula lepida species of brittlegill

title: rusohapero


text:
λοχίας

Etymology
From +. First attested 1833.

Noun

 * 1)  sergeant the NATO military rank OR-6

Coordinate terms

 * see: Appendix:Greek military ranks

title: λοχίας


text:
rusoreunahapero

Noun

 * 1) A species of brittlegill, Russula depallens.

title: rusoreunahapero


text:
ruusuhapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula roseipes.

title: ruusuhapero


text:
ruutuhapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: ruutuhapero


text:
sappihapero

Noun

 * 1)  or ,

title: sappihapero


text: sillihapero

title: sillihapero


text:
sinappihapero

Noun

 * 1)  or ,

title: sinappihapero


text:
sinihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: sinihapero


text:
suppilohapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: suppilohapero


text:
tammihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: tammihapero


text:
tomaattihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula persicina.

title: tomaattihapero


text:
tuhkahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula acrifolia.

title: tuhkahapero


text:
tulipunahapero

Noun

 * 1) The sickener,.

title: tulipunahapero


text:
tummalakihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula atrorubens.

title: tummalakihapero


text:
Talk:fall in

fall in
These senses:

 * 1) to join
 * 2) to grow deferent
 * 3) to be charmed

I suspect these may be for "fall in with" or something similar, but they don't seem to be for "fall in". — Paul G 17:15, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The first sense you ask about is as in "he fell in with a bad crowd". Yes, it's with with, but I don't know whether that's part of the verb.—msh210 ℠ 17:52, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I have added fall in with as it is an accepted phrasal verb in most dictionaries. The two meanings join and defer are in that entry and should, I believe, be eliminated from fall in. I have no idea about charmed, it doesn't seem to fit anywhere. -- Algrif 19:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:fall in


text:
tunturisillihapero

Noun

 * 1) A mushroom,.

title: tunturisillihapero


text:
tuoksuhapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: tuoksuhapero


text:
tyttöhapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula puellaris.

title: tyttöhapero


text:
vaivaispajunhapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: vaivaispajunhapero


text:
verihapero

Noun

 * 1) a brittlegill

title: verihapero


text:
viinihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: viinihapero


text:
viitahapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula gracillima.

title: viitahapero


text:
viherlakihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula olivaceoviolascens.

title: viherlakihapero


text:
vihersillihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill, Russula elaeodes.

title: vihersillihapero


text:
violettihapero

Noun

 * 1) A brittlegill,.

title: violettihapero


text:
sickener

Noun

 * 1) One who, or that which, sickens.
 * 2) A small, bright red and possibly poisonous russula or brittlegill.
 * 1) A small, bright red and possibly poisonous russula or brittlegill.

Translations

 * Bulgarian: бясна гъба
 * Finnish: tulipunahapero
 * Hungarian:
 * Russian: сырое́жка жгу́че-е́дкая, сырое́жка рво́тная

title: sickener


text:
υπουργικό συμβούλιο

Etymology
+

Noun

 * 1)  cabinet, ministerial committee
 * το άτυπο υπουργικό συμβούλιο για τις αποκρατικοποιήσεις
 * the informal cabinet for privatisation

title: υπουργικό συμβούλιο


text:
Citations:patriclan

 * 1) *1979, The shaping of South African Society 1652 - 1820. Eds. Richard Elphic & Hermann Giliommee. Longman p. 294.
 * By 1770, the Xhosa branch of the Nguni-speakers were organised at three levels: patrilineages, consisting the descendants of a known common ancestor; patriclans, composed of a number of lineages, all claiming descent from a putative common ancestor; and chiefdoms which were political units, each occupying a certian area under a chief.

title: Citations:patriclan


text:
Talk:patriclan

patriclan
rfv sense: "A group which claims common ancestry through the male line, but cannot prove the lineage."
 * I have already added the sense that seems to be the common one according to references: a patrilineal clan. The RfVed sense is taken from a single source which has added the qualifier of provable lineage. I doubt that many many antropologists use the term that way - though evidence could prove that doubt misplaced. DCDuring TALK 20:42, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Both of the senses given look highly fictional to me, and they may be based on computer games. For the original meaning of the word, look . From that the word has become to mean an aristocrat in general. More details can be found in any good dictionary. Hekaheka 19:32, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

 * patriclan is abundantly used in anthropology - not that I knew that before b.g.c. search. The author of the cite seems to have taken the usual sense and specialized it so he could distinguish between patrilineal clans with certain descent and those without, apparently meaningful in the societies he was studying. If someone who knows anthropology happens to know that this has been done at least two additional times, then we can include the more specialized sense. If not, then we stick with only the more general sense, which seems to be how dictionaries and works of anthropology usually define it. DCDuring TALK 20:03, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:patriclan


text:
adrenergní

Adjective

 * 1) adrenergic

title: adrenergní


text:
cholinergní

Adjective

 * 1) cholinergic

title: cholinergní


text:
Rathnupur

Proper noun

 * 1) A city mentioned in ancient Jain scriptures.

Translations

 * Hindi: रथनूपुर

title: Rathnupur


text:
anticholinergní

Adjective

 * 1) anticholinergic

title: anticholinergní


text:
haarukkarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: haarukkarousku


text:
harjasrousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: harjasrousku


text: harmaarousku

title: harmaarousku


text:
isovoirousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: isovoirousku


text:
kalvashaaparousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: kalvashaaparousku


text:
kangaspalsamirousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: kangaspalsamirousku


text:
kangasrousku

Noun

 * 1) rufous candy milk-cap or red hot milk-cap,

title: kangasrousku


text:
keltahelttarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: keltahelttarousku


text:
keltarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: keltarousku


text:
koivurousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: koivurousku


text:
korpirousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: korpirousku


text:
korpivoirousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: korpivoirousku


text:
kultarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: kultarousku


text:
kuusenleppärousku

Noun

 * 1) false saffron milk-cap or bitterer milchling,

title: kuusenleppärousku


text:
kuusenvyörousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius zonarioides.

title: kuusenvyörousku


text:
kääpiörousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius omphaliformis.

title: kääpiörousku


text:
lakkarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius cremor.

title: lakkarousku


text:
lakritsirousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius helvus.

title: lakritsirousku


text:
lapinrousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius lapponicus.

title: lapinrousku


text:
lapinvuokkorousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius dryadophilus.

title: lapinvuokkorousku


text:
lehtorousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius bertilloni.

title: lehtorousku


text:
lehtovyörousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: lehtovyörousku


text:
lepikkorousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius obscuratus.

title: lepikkorousku


text:
liiturousku

Noun

 * 1) fleecy milk-cap,

title: liiturousku


text:
lutikkarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius serifluus.

title: lutikkarousku


text:
maitorousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: maitorousku


text:
maksarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: maksarousku


text:
cromolyn

Noun

 * 1)  A chemical substance, acting as a mast cell stabilizer.

Synonyms

 * cromoglicate
 * cromoglycate

Translations

 * Czech: kromolyn

title: cromolyn


text: männynleppärousku

title: männynleppärousku


text:
Talk:throw signs

throwing signs
Isn't this called throwing up ? SemperBlotto 16:30, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

 * The phrase looks very real from gang world and seems to have been around for more than 10 years in print. The lemma entry should be for the idiomatic verb throw signs. I found 47 raw b.g.c. hits for the lemma form, suggestive that it should be citable. I'll start with some clean up. DCDuring TALK 16:49, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * To throw signs is cited. I have inserted the present participle template in throwing signs. I don't think the text of the original entry has too much value, but perhaps it will give someone some ideas for how to improve throw signs. DCDuring TALK 17:24, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

 * For me, throwing signs means the same as throwing hints or give hints or drop a hint or even hint at. e.g. I was throwing signs at him to ask me out on a date.--Keene 01:07, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

 * It also may have a meaning in semiological-type scholarship, but I don't know how to interpret that kind of text. The sense that I have cited seems very well-defined and is attestable in good sources. Any phrase that combines common words like this must have other senses. The one cited doesn't seem at least to be SoP, but is clearly derived from the ordinary meaning of the words. DCDuring TALK 02:01, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:throw signs


text:
männynrousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: männynrousku


text: nokirousku

title: nokirousku


text:
nororousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius hysginoides.

title: nororousku


text:
nurmirousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius flexuosus.

title: nurmirousku


text:
oranssirousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius mitissimus.

title: oranssirousku


text:
paljakkarousku

Noun

 * 1)  A milk-cap.

title: paljakkarousku


text:
partarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: partarousku


text:
pikkurousku

Noun

 * 1) birch milk-cap, Lactarius tabidus

title: pikkurousku


text:
pippurirousku

Noun

 * 1) peppery milk-cap,

title: pippurirousku


text:
pohjanrousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: pohjanrousku


text:
punarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: punarousku


text:
punatäplärousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: punatäplärousku


text: pyökinrousku

title: pyökinrousku


text:
love interest

Noun

 * 1)  One who is of interest as a (potential) partner in love.
 * 2) A romantic relationship; a romance.
 * 3)  A romantic plot or subplot in a film or book.
 * 1) A romantic relationship; a romance.
 * 2)  A romantic plot or subplot in a film or book.
 * 1) A romantic relationship; a romance.
 * 2)  A romantic plot or subplot in a film or book.
 * 1)  A romantic plot or subplot in a film or book.

Translations

 * Dutch:
 * Esperanto: potenciala koramiko
 * French: amoureux potentiel
 * Portuguese: interesse amoroso

title: love interest


text:
mastocyt

Noun

 * 1)  mast cell

title: mastocyt


text: pyökkilehtorousku

title: pyökkilehtorousku


text:
Talk:elliptical

An issue
Here's my problem: I've got multiple sources that expand this definition further. I'm using the word in a biography of a living person on Wikipedia which, if anyone here doesn't know, has strict guidelines for accuracy and citation/referencing. I understand that words can only be omitted from written or oral expression. What I don't understand is So, while I don't need anyone to attempt to answer #1, I would like someone here to answer #2 for me so that I can relay that information to others on WP when I'm asked why I'm using an external link to reference the definition of a word in my featured article. Thanks.
 * 1) Why other people can't get the meaning of the word from the limited definition currently in place, and
 * 2) Why it can't be expanded (as I did) to match other online references and make it extra clear for those who need things explained in greater detail (see #1).

Oh, and here are the sources I speak of: LaraLove 17:15, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) Merriam-Webster
 * 2) The Free Dictionary
 * 3) dictionary.die.net
 * 4) OnlineDictionary
 * 5) English-test.net
 * 6) encarta.msn
 * 7) yourdictionary.com
 * 8) biology-online.org
 * 9) grewl.mobi
 * 10) wordnet-online.com
 * 11) Webster-dictionary
 * 12) BrainyQuote.com
 * 13) ARDictionary

 * Regarding your sources,
 * The element you're wishing to add is 2.a.2, without the intervening sub-meanings which have bearing.
 * Moves those sub-meanings to a third sense, one which is currently not present on en.wt.
 * Moves those sub-meanings to a third sense, one which is currently not present on en.wt.
 * Moves those sub-meanings to a third sense with the addition of "essential to comprehension", one which is currently not present on en.wt.
 * Does not include the "expanding content" you previously added.
 * Moves those sub-meanings to a third sense, one which is currently not present on en.wt.
 * Adds submeanings, as you did, to sense #2.
 * Does not include the expanding content you previously added.
 * Moves those sub-meanings to a third sense, one which is currently not present on en.wt. (Note also lacks the geometry sense.)
 * Moves those sub-meanings to a third sense, one which is currently not present on en.wt.
 * Is the word elliptic, but moves those sub-meanings to a third sense, one which is currently not on en.wt.
 * Does not include the expanding content you previously added.
 * Server not found.
 * Having examined your sources, it appears the sub-meanings could reasonably be added as a third sense to the term. However, "words omitted from written or oral communication" is a pleonasm. - Amgine/talk 18:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:elliptical


text:
pähkinänrousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: pähkinänrousku


text:
rahkarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius sphagneti.

title: rahkarousku


text:
raidanrousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius aspideus.

title: raidanrousku


text:
revonrousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius fulvissimus.

title: revonrousku


text:
rikkirousku

Noun

 * 1) yellowdrop milk-cap,

title: rikkirousku


text:
rutarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: rutarousku


text: savurousku

title: savurousku


text: sikurirousku

title: sikurirousku


text:
sinappirousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: sinappirousku


text:
Talk:tapestry

tapestry
rfv-sense: both/all verb senses. DCDuring TALK 16:28, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Sense 2 cited, possibly obsolete.-- Visviva 17:16, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Removed one rfv-sense tag; retained the other.—msh210 ℠ 18:30, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:tapestry


text:
sinileppärousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: sinileppärousku


text:
sinipunarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: sinipunarousku


text:
suppilo

Noun

 * 1) funnel, cone
 * 2) hopper
 * 1) hopper

Etymology 1
element as in

Verb

 * 1)  to  stealthily, to, to , to
 * 2)  to  (someone) without being noticed, to, to , to

Derived terms

 * suppīlō²
 * suppīlō²

Etymology 2
From.

Noun

 * 1) one who steals or robs stealthily, a thief

title: suppilo


text:
kromolyn

Noun

 * 1)  cromolyn

title: kromolyn


text:
othersome

Etymology 1
From, equivalent to 🇰🇲.

Pronoun

 * 1)  Some others.
 * , Folio Society, 2006, vol.1, p.83:
 * Othersome will say, that by the force of it [imagination], bodies are sometimes removed from their places.

Etymology 2
From, equivalent to.

Adjective

 * 1)  Some other; various.

title: othersome


text:
suklaarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: suklaarousku


text:
suomurousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: suomurousku


text: tagaim

title: tagaim


text: tagaimid

title: tagaimid


text:
fare capriole

Verb

 * 1)  to caper, to cavort

title: fare capriole


text:
tammenrousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: tammenrousku


text:
Talk:metaphrase

metaphrase and calque
I was just wondering if they qualify as synonyms? --BiT 18:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

 * No. Metaphrase is about translating texts word-by-word (such as using original idioms in translated literary works), while calque is about adding to the vocabulary of a language by adopting word-by-word translations of another language as new lexical items. Malhonen 19:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Aah ok, maybe the pages require to be disambiguated about this? From the page I gathered that the word "metaphrase" suggested one word translated, but not a text translated verbatim. --BiT 20:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, they'd need to be fixed. Actually, metaphrasing can refer to translating just a single idiom or phrase word-by-word, not necessarily the rest of text. The crucial difference is that metaphrases are ad-hoc translations of something in another language, while calques have become part of the native speakers' vocabulary. Neogrammarian is a literal translation of German Junggrammatiker, but it has been adopted in general usage, so it's a calque. Now, if somebody translates German aus einer Mücke einen Elefanten machen as make an elephant out of a mosquito and not make a mountain out of a mole hill, it's a metaphrase, since native speakers of English wouldn't normally say anything about elephants and mosquitoes in this context. Malhonen 12:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:metaphrase


text:
tammensavurousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: tammensavurousku


text:
torvivoirousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: torvivoirousku


text:
Talk:calque

metaphrase and calque
I was just wondering if they qualify as synonyms? --BiT 18:39, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

 * No. Metaphrase is about translating texts word-by-word (such as using original idioms in translated literary works), while calque is about adding to the vocabulary of a language by adopting word-by-word translations of another language as new lexical items. Malhonen 19:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Aah ok, maybe the pages require to be disambiguated about this? From the page I gathered that the word "metaphrase" suggested one word translated, but not a text translated verbatim. --BiT 20:20, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, they'd need to be fixed. Actually, metaphrasing can refer to translating just a single idiom or phrase word-by-word, not necessarily the rest of text. The crucial difference is that metaphrases are ad-hoc translations of something in another language, while calques have become part of the native speakers' vocabulary. Neogrammarian is a literal translation of German Junggrammatiker, but it has been adopted in general usage, so it's a calque. Now, if somebody translates German aus einer Mücke einen Elefanten machen as make an elephant out of a mosquito and not make a mountain out of a mole hill, it's a metaphrase, since native speakers of English wouldn't normally say anything about elephants and mosquitoes in this context. Malhonen 12:06, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Meaning
Is there a difference between a direct translation and a calque?Jonteemil (talk) 18:50, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:calque


text:
tundrarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: tundrarousku


text:
tunturipajunrousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: tunturipajunrousku


text:
vaivaispajunrousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius salicisherbaceae.

title: vaivaispajunrousku


text:
Talk:Pyrus malus

Pyrus malus
From what I can tell, Pyrus is pear, and Malus is apple, both genus names. However, google and gbc shows a lot of cites. It seems like this should exist, but I'm at a loss as to what form it should take. Any ideas? Atelaes 07:57, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

 * From what I understand, it's the old (Linnaean) term for a species which is now regarded as two, viz. Malus domesticus and Malus sylvestris (the domestic apple and the crabapple). Should be listed as ==Translingual== and, unless we have a more specific template for obsolete scientific names.  EncycloPetey can probably shed more light on this. -- Visviva 08:48, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I've converted it into such an entry as advised. SemperBlotto 10:29, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

 * USDA Plants database reports it as synonym for Malus sylvestris, European crab apple. DCDuring TALK 02:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure that should be regarded as a separate sense; then again I'm not really sure how we ought to treat taxonomic synonyms at all, since they are rather distinct from ordinary garden-variety synonyms. -- Visviva 09:23, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pyrus malus


text:
valjurousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius pallidus.

title: valjurousku


text:
capriola

Etymology 1
From.

Noun

 * 1) somersault, caper, capriole

Etymology 2
From, from the feminine of. Compare 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) female roe deer

title: capriola


text:
valkokarvarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius scoticus.

title: valkokarvarousku


text:
verirousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius sanquifluus.

title: verirousku


text:
vesikehärousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: vesikehärousku


text:
vihervoirousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius olivinus.

title: vihervoirousku


text:
viitapalsamirousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius glyciosmus.

title: viitapalsamirousku


text:
villakarvarousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: villakarvarousku


text:
villavoirousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap, Lactarius leonis.

title: villavoirousku


text:
voirousku

Noun

 * 1) A milk-cap,.

title: voirousku


text:
tuoksu

Noun

 * 1) fragrance, aroma, odour, smell, scent, whiff

Usage notes

 * usually denotes a pleasant scent. A more neutral word is, whereas and  are always unpleasant, and can be translated as stench.

title: tuoksu


text:
peptidergní

Adjective

 * 1) peptidergic

title: peptidergní


text:
andare a male

Etymology
lit. 'to go to bad'.

Verb

 * 1)  to go bad; to rot

title: andare a male


text:
histamin

Noun

 * 1)  histamine

Noun

 * 1)  histamine

Noun

 * 1)  histamine

title: histamin


text:
Talk:FBI FD-302

FBI FD-302
Is this dictionary material? (needs proper formatting) SemperBlotto 09:34, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

It certainly has hits on b.g.c. (~150). I wonder about whether our search engine will help folks find it. Some form names (for example, US IRS "1040") are in widespread common use. In the context of literature (testimony, etc.) about US crime and other subject in which the FBI gets involved, I suppose this is somewhat important. My expereience in reading that kind of document is that those testifying mention things that they assume "everyone" knows, like form names, without explaining them. Those building the record don't always include explanatory definitions, though they seem to try to. DCDuring TALK 10:58, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Is it a word in the news, or something? Move to RFD.  --Connel MacKenzie 19:11, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

 * The b.g.c. usage is over a fairly long period of time. I would be surprised if there were more than a hundred forms worldwide that could meet RfV. Would we exclude congressional testimony because it was not independent? DCDuring TALK 19:52, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I came across this term when I was reading dossiers prepared for Guantanamo captives Combatant Status Review Tribunals, and later published in response to FOIA requests. The DoD has published 179 dossiers of unclassified documents prepared for the Tribunals.  About half of these dossiers, in addition to containing unclassified documents, list the classified documents in the corresponding, much longer, classified dossiers.  "FBI FD-302" was one of the secret documents with a cryptic name.  So was "CITF form 40".  So they are just official forms for recording what is learned in an interview or interrogation.  That might not seem important.  But it was an annoying amount of work to determine that.  And I think taking steps to free other readers of this burden is worthwhile.

 * Is there any way you regulars could avoid using opaque jargon -- like RFD, or b.g.c.?

 * Cheers! Geo Swan 04:05, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Nope, sorry; we've tried but it's just not possible. :-) However, we do have a glossary. -- Visviva 04:38, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

 * You make a good point concerning usability; however this text would remain web-accessible if it was moved to an appendix (Appendix:FBI glossary or some such), which might be the best solution if it is not in common use. -- Visviva 04:38, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Asking the regulars to avoid using jargon is asking us to use longer, time-consuming language. Every field and every group develops jargon for the purposes of speeding communication among members.  Instead of asking us not to use our communication time-savers, you could ask about what they mean, and learn the jargon yourself.  We actually don't have a very large number of internal jargon terms that are used often, and the most common are usually abbreviations of the names of discussion pages.  It's much easier to say RFD instead of Requests for Deletion.  And the link WT:RFD is much faster to type than Requests for deletion. --EncycloPetey 21:22, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

 * The question now is what do we do with form names? A glossary for tax forms and one for law enforcement forms?  Toss them? -  17:30, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:FBI FD-302


text:
farsi male

Verb

 * 1) to hurt

title: farsi male


text:
suudelma

Etymology
..

Noun

 * 1) kiss

title: suudelma


text: anisherkkusieni

title: anisherkkusieni


text:
haisuherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) An agaric,.

title: haisuherkkusieni


text:
helmiherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) An agaric,.

title: helmiherkkusieni


text:
kupariherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) An agaric,.

title: kupariherkkusieni


text:
kuusiherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) An agaric,

title: kuusiherkkusieni


text:
kääpiöherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) An agaric,

title: kääpiöherkkusieni


text:
gach

Etymology
From, from , from ,. Cognate with 🇨🇬 and 🇨🇬. More at.

Adjective

 * 1) precipitous, rash
 * 2) sudden, abrupt, quick
 * 3) steep, abrupt
 * 4) hot-tempered, short-tempered

Etymology
From, from , proclitic form of , from (compare 🇨🇬).

Determiner

 * 1) each, every

Usage notes

 * resists lenition; the eclipsed form is ngach:

Etymology
Borrowed from.

Noun

 * 1)  brick

Etymology
+.

Noun

 * 1)  lover
 * 2)  suitor, wooer
 * 1)  suitor, wooer

Noun

 * 1) male hare

Etymology
From, from , proclitic form of , from (compare 🇨🇬).

Adverb

 * 1) every, each

Usage notes

 * Considered a little more formal or high-register than the synonymous by some.
 * is an inherently definite word, acting grammatically as if there is an unwritten definite article. Thus, the prepositions, , , usually take the pre-article forms  when preceding , though some speakers use the basic forms instead.

title: gach


text:
meriherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) An agaric,.

title: meriherkkusieni


text:
nurmiherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) field mushroom or meadow mushroom,

title: nurmiherkkusieni


text:
Talk:cheese and rice

cheese and rice
The first 50 Google hits were either urbandictionaries or recipe sites. After that I got bored. --Keene 15:01, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

 * has 16 hits, all apparently in this sense; gets 27, nearly all apparently in this sense. For that matter,  gets a few, maybe enough to meet CFI. This hit suggests to me a possible origin. —Ruakh TALK 16:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

UD WotD 20 July, 2008
Urban Dictionary Word of the Day Sunday, 20 July, 2008. DCDuring TALK 17:03, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:cheese and rice


text:
peltoherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) horse mushroom,

title: peltoherkkusieni


text:
piennarherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) An agaric,  or.

title: piennarherkkusieni


text:
puistoherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) An agaric,.

title: puistoherkkusieni


text:
ruskoherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) An agaric,.

title: ruskoherkkusieni


text:
rusoherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) Any of species  of agaric fungi.

title: rusoherkkusieni


text:
siroherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) an agaric

title: siroherkkusieni


text:
tapionherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1)  An agaric,.

title: tapionherkkusieni


text:
tarhaherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) An agaric,.

title: tarhaherkkusieni


text:
tuppiherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) An agaric,.

title: tuppiherkkusieni


text:
upeaherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) The prince,.

title: upeaherkkusieni


text:
mal d'auto

Noun

 * 1) carsickness

title: mal d'auto


text:
antihistaminikum

Noun

 * 1) antihistamine

title: antihistaminikum


text:
valkoherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) Agaricus nivescens, a mushroom related to the button mushroom.

title: valkoherkkusieni


text:
veriherkkusieni

Noun

 * 1) An agaric,.

title: veriherkkusieni


text: Category:Irish determiners

title: Category:Irish determiners


text:
skaper

Etymology
From, from.

Noun

 * 1) creator
 * møte sin skaper - meet one's maker

title: skaper