text:
User talk:Omnipaedista

Fonts
Could someone give me an advice on the following problem I have? Hittite and Glagolitic characters just don't appear in any of the browsers I use (Mozilla, Internet Explorer, Safari). I had the same problem with the Gothic runes but I found those fonts with the help of a "got.wikipedian". Omnipedian 16:34, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Try with Alphabetum fonts, it has most of ancient characters. Crazymadlover
 * Also try code2001. Also, try, which is not a font, but generally has a list of fonts for almost every script you can imagine.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 09:41, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Etymology
Please note this change I made to your additions to amurca. The templates will automatically add the necessary links and categories. If you plan to add many etymologies, then learning the use of the templates and  would be worthwhile. --EncycloPetey 22:06, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Etymologies
So I noticed that you've been spotting some of our......more embarrassing moments. First of all, let me thank you for pointing some of these out. A lot of what you're seeing is the result of a specific editor who had some rather outdated notions on etymology. Going through their contributions line by line is on my list of "Horrific things that I'd rather scrape out my eyes with a screwdriver than do, but am bound by ethics to complete at some point." For future reference, Wiktionary talk pages are basically never looked at (too high a pages:editor ratio), and you will get better results by following one of two methods: First, and I think the better route, simply tag the entry with, using an ISO code as the first parameter. So, for example, if you find an etymology which is spotty on the Ancient Greek, will get the attention of an Ancient Greek editor, by placing it in Category:Ancient Greek words needing attention (cleaning out said category is on a list which is rather less painful than the screwdriver bit). Secondly, starting a thread in one of our central discussion rooms (probably the Tea room for the types of things you've cited in the past) will also get the entry some attention. However, seeing as your visits (or at least edits) here are somewhat sporadic, and our formatting policies are rather fluid, if you get this message rather later than it was written, please feel free to contact me or any other editor directly to get the heads up on what we're doing at that particular moment. Happy trails. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 08:40, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Unified Login
User:Omnipedian --> User:Omnipaedista. Omnipaedista 06:11, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Ewe
Why do the Swedish capitalize this language name, but not the names of other languages? --EncycloPetey 20:22, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Well, they don't actually. If you're referring to my last edit to the Ewe entry, all I did was extracting a misplaced section from an irrelevant to the subject entry and placing it as-is to the most relevant one I could find (as you can see in my contribs-log). To be frank, I don't even understand why there should even exist a lemma describing how the ewe language is called in other languages that use the Latin alphabet, since its the same in (almost?) all of them. If you will, you can undo this last edit of mine by reverting me. Omnipaedista 07:33, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Forgot to mention a "crucial" point: the section in the ewe (as in sheep) entry was initially created by a Bot, so I should've just deleted it without transferring it anywhere. But I was confused when I saw that Ewe entry already had a "Dutch section" which was a duplicate of the English one. (Btw, I believe that both the Swedish and Dutch sections should be deleted.) In any case... sorry, for the trouble I might've put you into; still learning how things work here. Omnipaedista 08:25, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Why should the Swedish and Dutch sections be deleted? Are they incorrect?  If they are valid for those languages, then they should exist.  We maintain separate language sections for each and every word in any language. --EncycloPetey 22:49, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

τις
Just letting you know that I reverted your edit here. The inflection line should be the same as the entry title (which the exception of certain orthographic adjustments, which in grc are basically limited to vowel length marks). In any case, the inflection line should not link to a different word. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:06, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

 * OK, you're right. Btw, thanks for keeping me informed, in general. Omnipaedista 02:43, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Well, there's no getting around the fact that Wiktionary formatting is complex, dynamic, and often poorly documented, and so we're generally quite happy to help out anyone who seems to have a head on their shoulders (you might be surprised at how rare that actually is :-P). I've been an admin for nearly two years now and I still have to ask people how to do stuff occasionally.  -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 02:52, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

I apologise
Sorry, I didnt know that the discussion page wasn't not destinated to discuss. Where can I talk with people of my tests ? What you told me about neogrammarians is exactly what I think, but when you find regularities, why not see them ? In addition, I don't say that every word of every language comes from Latin and greek. I'm not an English native-speaker and when I said "comes " I meant a cognate. I found the word in a page, and now I use it. thanks. --Mark Mage 23:09, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Hello. Well, I realize that I may have sounded harsher than I wanted to. What I meant is that talk-pages of entries in every Wikimedia project have the purpose of hosting discussions on the improvement of the entry's content based on published (ideally peer-reviewed) sources. This means that, in principle, they oughtn't be used either as forums or as places for one to publish a new theory. It's perfectly understandable if you weren't aware of this detail, as a new user here. Regarding the distinction of "comes from" from "relates to", one should be very careful. This is a typical trick used by (mainly nationalistic) agenda pushers: deliberately replacing the word "cognate (to)" in standard etymological derivations by the word "derivative (of)". If you didn't make this replacement on purpose, then at least you prove that you have no particular agenda to promote. But still, the methodology of misperceiving the nature of some epiphenomenal similarities among certain words and not examining first their synchronic background before supporting their genetic relation is highly debatable. The core of the Neogrammarian paradigm is just the opposite: always looking for when (and where) each word was attested for the first time in order to discover how (and from where) it got evolved and find the exact systematic law governing its phonetic change and give a convincing rationale explaining its semantic change, as well. (If you want to know, btw, the canonical etymology of any English word you're interested in, all you have to do is visit etymonline.com/ and if you want to go deeper in the explanation of the underlying laws leading from Proto-Indo-European to Proto-Germanic to Anglo-Saxon to Modern English, all you have to do is read Robert Beekes' textbook "Comparative Indo-European Linguistics: An Introduction".) Your approach is rather random and ad hoc than systematic and natural; it reminds me of the approach taken in "Cratylus" by Plato or the Byzantine encyclopedia "Etymologicum Magnum". (Although, I have to admit, that your hypotheses are imaginative enough that, at least, one can say that they have a certain artistic value, in the sense that Plato's wordplays have such a value, as well.) The fact that you (apparently) didn't take the time to study what the forefront of modern research suggests on the matters you investigate manifests a certain level of linguistic amateurism (one may well be a professional philologist, but at the same time a non-adept in Linguistics). This does not mean that an amateur is, in principle, unable to contribute to science. It just means that one can do so, only if they have mastered first (either via autodidaxis or via a formal academic training) all the prerequisite standard technical knowledge of their time. Cheers. --Omnipaedista 03:49, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

 * To Omnipaedista:It upset me to have read such interesting suggestions about the etymology of God on scriptorium, jump to the author's(mark mage) talk page and see such an unpleasant, controlling, silly "request"-- even if Mage's post had been crackpot, which is uncivil of you to say--But you haven't demonstrated it is crackpot, so your above post could just as easily be the crackpot post. Furthermore, unless my understanding of the rules is wrong, wiktionary isn't the same as wikipedia, it's ok to discuss the subject, not just the article, on the talk pages. That's how questions are asked here, and it's a great way to learn(so we can contribute better), motivate ourselves to keep contributing, & get some deserved R and R, as well as possibly make a real discovery, which Mage may or may not have done. Whether he did or not, I can learn something from it! Original research on the question section in wikipedia is fine, so it should be fine here on the places set aside for questions here also. However, I don't think you meant to be unpleasant, controlling or silly, it sounds as if you are just sick and tired of overly nationalistic linguists. But not all speculations need be nationalistic,& to me, Mage's doesn't sound like it is.Best wishes, Rich 10:33, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

 * The use of the words quack and crackpot is uncivil when one describes with them people; I used them as technical adjectives describing paradigms (in the sense of "false" and "eccentric", respectively). Useful links: 1) Mark was way out of topic in this talk-page. Plus, he had basically posted the same message to several talk-pages; this tactic resembles rather spamming (ergo vandalism) than constructive utilization of these pages. 2) Is it possible that you have a bias toward defending folk Etymology? As I said above, it might have an artistic value, but this doesn't make it less of a pseudoscience. 3) No need for me to debunk/demonstrate anything; Germanic etymologies are textbook material. Generally speaking, those who attempt to go beyond academic orthodoxy should at least be able to recognize that they are unorthodox; it seems to be the case that if they do, there will be more chances of them being right. Cheers. --Omnipaedista 21:32, 1 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Incidentally, I have to admit that Mark has contributed very constructively to the coverage of scientific etymology in at least one Wikimedia project so far, since he seems to be the author/translator of this wonderful article: Index radicum Indoeuropaearum -- I came across it while exploring the Latin Wikipedia. --Omnipaedista 09:59, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, i might have no more objections if 1)you hadn't been ANONYMOUSLY unpleasant to Mage. 2)if you had gone back later and apologized to Mage on his talk page 3)If you hadn't made such a silly reply above.--After all we don't know who or what you are or your qualifications. Please remember that even if you do have a doctorate and tenure, an amateur might come up with a contribution because of unusual intelligence. (I make no claim of such intelligence for myself) For example,Grassmann would probably be considered an amateur by contemporary standards but I bet he would still make contributions (without further training)if alive today. Best wishes, Richard L. Peterson24.7.28.186 10:17, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Hello. 1) I have never ever left an "anonymous" (=unsigned) or "pseudonymous" (=sockpuppetty) message to anyone on any Wikimedia project; please clarify what you are talking about. 2) Apologize about what exactly? I did not make any personal attacks against him; I was very specific about why I think that his contributions are not constructive (and potentially disruptive) to this project. I just had to admit that I was maybe overly harsh when addressing to him, since he was sort of a newcomer. 3) Personal qualifications and credentials of the users are irrelevant; the only thing that matters is that a user should be able to keep his contributions to a certain scholarly level. I may have incidentally alluded that Mark's research is subpar, but I did not claim to have given authoritative judgment on the issue (Wiktionary is not the place for either publishing nor for judging original research), but I had to justify why I hold this opinion. If you deem this justification as silly, that's another matter altogether; but I hope you do realize that, generally speaking, there is such a thing as scholarly method and that it serves as a criterion for objectively discerning useful hypotheses from useless ones. --Omnipaedista 11:52, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

(outdent)I have just realized that when you say I act anonymously, you obviously mean that I act without revealing my real name. If that is the case, you seem to ignore the fact that Wikimedians have the right to remain anonymous. --Omnipaedista 12:05, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

vis
Please see vīs's talk page where it says rōbur has nothing to do with the declension of vīs; why do you think it does? Caladon 07:13, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

 * I missed that comment on the talk-page (I used to take notice of the talk-pages before I edit until I realized that most of the times they contain junk and stopped doing so). To the point now: there are at least four popular views about vis and its genitive: 1) it has no genitive, 2) its genitive is vis, 3) its genitive is formed complementarily from robur, roboris "strength", 4) its genitive is formed complementarily from vis, viris "might, violence". My current (outdated) bibliographic resources are at odds with each other, so yesterday I tried to look for an answer in.. ehm.. Vicipaedia, and in a talk-page I found a renowned user proclaiming that the robur version is definitely the correct one. I got carried away without double-checking it and added it to the Wikt. entry. Now, from what I see, this claim is the most ill-founded of the four; it does exist as a popular view (confer the other popular but misguided view that says the plural of virus should be viri), but it seems to be utterly wrong. So for now, I'll revert my edit, but I would like to find some updated source that explains authoritatively this matter, and then maybe add this explanation to the talk-page of vis, and as a comment to the usage notes of the Latin lemma itself. --Omnipaedista 11:30, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

tribuo
Hello there, what is the point of this edit at tribuo? Can you please format the entry using la-verb? --Dan Polansky 06:23, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Done. Not that it matters, but I want to remark that I had the intention to format it properly but something went wrong the first time I tried to make the edit, and instead of correcting it immediately I decided to correct it at a later time. Well.. thanks for pointing this out! --Omnipaedista 03:20, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Modern Greek
The language header we use for Modern Greek (el) is ==Greek==. The heading "Modern Greek" will be flagged as an error that has to be corrected. --EncycloPetey 07:13, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

καμπάνα
When you added the etymology, you classified this entry as an Italian word. --EncycloPetey 07:15, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

persono
On Wiktionary:Requested entries:Latin, did you mean ? --EncycloPetey 01:42, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Nope (1, 2). --Omnipaedista 01:55, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * OK. I had to ask because you added it under "R".  I assume this was just a bit of "rho"/"r" confusion. --EncycloPetey 01:59, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
 * O_O Believe it or not, this is the first time in my life where I seem to have confused those two. :) --Omnipaedista 02:04, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

IPA brackets
Please note that most pronunciations on Wiktionary should have slashes /ædʒ/ rather than square brackets. Square brackets are used to denote specific regional rendering of sounds, while slashes are used for general phonemic pronunciations. --EncycloPetey 07:28, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

OK. --Omnipaedista 07:30, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Creating new entries
Hello. When you create a new entry, could you leave the Edit Summary box blank? It already shows up in Recent Changes with a bold N to indicate that it's new, and if you leave the box blank, the actual entry contents will show up instead, which makes the edits easier to see at a glance. Thanks! Equinox ◑ 05:21, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually, I don't leave it blank for aesthetic reasons :) I got this habit from Wikipedia. But since you pointed it out to me, I have no problem leaving it blank from now on, of course. --Omnipaedista 05:25, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Minor problem
You don't need to include sections like ===Etymology=== unless there is something to put there (immediately). See my last edit. Mglovesfun (talk) 07:21, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

 * I usually put these section headings i.o.t. conveniently fill the sections at a (much) later time. Would it be OK if I just "commentified" them? (eg.: ) --Omnipaedista 07:26, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes I do the same thing. Mglovesfun (talk) 07:27, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

Appendix, ?
What is the purpose of the quæstion marks which you put in the Appendix after existing Ancient Greek entries? (When I put quæstion marks, it is because I am uncertain of the spelling) Exempli gratia, the Bulgarian and Serbo-Croatian word кенеф (lavatory) descends from Ancient Greek κενός (empty) according to the Български етимологичен речник, albeit via Ottoman Turkish (which I am unable to write). What’s the problem with χιλιάς, the source of хиљада and хиляда? The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 17:51, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

 * 1) The purpose of the question marks was this: after I saw that κέλυφος had been given as a "cognate" of калуф, while in fact their similarity is just a coincidence, I began to wonder whether the other recently added el entries were correct (they might be false friends). For example before you tell me that кенеф is from grc κενός via Ottoman Turkish (according to an etymological dictionary), I had been wondering whether it was not κενός but another Greek word that was intended to be entried there. By the way, the word κενός also exists in Modern Greek, but I would not place the ell word on the list, because it is borrowed directly from grc to ell (the original meaning remaining intact), and therefore it is not a balkanism. 2) The problem with χιλιάδα, is that it is given as a cognate of хавлија "soft towel" (right?). I am quite certain that this cannot be correct. --Omnipaedista 22:05, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 2) I was too precipitately while copying the frame for хавлия, so I must have overlooked them. They are now removed. Greek κενός does not need to be mentioned, but the Ancient Greek word, which is the source, does. The uſer hight Bogorm converſation 11:08, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * So, we agree. --Omnipaedista 12:44, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Greek adjective headword line
The headword/inflection line we currently use is not satisfactory (it says  ) - when it may well be another case form as well as nominative. Most dictionaries, monolingual as well as bilingual, show the feminine and neuter endings after the masculine form.

I have worked up a new template (currently called ) whose output you can see at at τέλειος - please let me know if you think that this is an improvement. — Saltmarsh απάντηση 08:11, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

 * The template is now — Saltmarsh απάντηση 12:02, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Basically, my only concern is the same as User:Jaxlarus's: see here. The new template is certainly an improvement over the previous one, but in the case of Greek templates there are always minor issues regarding the stress marks. (Unfortunately, right now I don't have much time to elaborate more on that.) --Omnipaedista 20:49, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

 * User:Jaxlarus's comments referred to the template series el-a-... which deal with declension tables, whereas formats the headword line. — Saltmarsh απάντηση 05:37, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

metonymia
Your etymology edits have indicated this is an English word. It is not. --EncycloPetey 02:44, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

aer
This etymology is incorrect. No Classical Latin words come from Modern Greek. --EncycloPetey 00:58, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I meant Ancient Greek not Greek. I have properly corrected this error. --Omnipaedista 01:19, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Albanian
Please don't "correct" pronunciations, especially if you're getting them from French wiktionary. They have a bunch of shit mistakes in Albanian and Hindi among others, especially in pronunciations. — [ R·I·C ] opiaterein — 15:03, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Adding Latin macrons
When you are adding macrons to Latin entries, it would be better to add them without removing the template, as I have done in this edit. The template places the entry to the category for Latin verbs. --Dan Polansky 11:10, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Pronunciations of library and principal
I noticed you undid my edits to the pronunciations of library and principal. I would appreciate an explanation as to why my edits were wrong. Thank you. --WikiTiki89 01:38, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Even if /r/ after b is phonetically omitted in certain dialects, the point of the pronunciation section is to give the phonemic transcription of the words; so, the omittance of /r/ in certain environments (even if it exists as a phenomenon, which is to be verified) is not phonemic, therefore irrelevant to a phonemic transcription. --Omnipaedista 17:41, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Baklahorani song translation, please?
Hi, Omnipaedista. Have you heard of Baklahorani, a recently revived carnival from Istanbul? I've first heard of it from the Wikipedia article on it. I also came across this song, which is in Greek before 2:45 and in (mostly) Turkish after that. I spread the word about it at Wikitravel because I want the website to know about it. One fellow Wikitraveller, Vidimian, had so kindly made a translation of the Turkish part when I asked for it. Now I'm asking whether you're able to transcribe and translate the Greek lyrics of it. If not, I could try the other native Greek speakers here. --Lo Ximiendo 07:45, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Lewis & Short
Please do not use Lewis & Short for evidence of macron placement for Latin entries. Their scholarship is often out of date, and they typically omit macrons on endings on the assumption that the Classical student will know when they are supposed to be there.

Also, please do not create links to Latin pages with macrons in the name; that should not be done on Wiktionary. --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:26, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

 * My edits were based on:, --from Lewis Elem. I have read somewhere that "Elementary Lewis tries to mark, as much as can be determined, all long vowels with macrons, leaving short vowels unmarked, whereas Lewis & Short leaves vowels unmarked either where length is reasonably predictable (somewhat unfortunately, since beginners often don't know when a vowel's length is predictable) or where length cannot be definitively determined because the syllable is already long by position (whereas Elem. Lewis commits itself to making informed assumptions about the length of such vowels when possible). In all other cases Lewis & Short marks long vowels with the macron and short vowels with the breve." Also: it is clear that its scholarship regarding etymology is outdated, but are we positive that the scholarship regarding macrons is also out of date? I would like to compare some of its entries with the respective entries in, say, Wheelock's Latin. --Omnipaedista (talk) 13:08, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

WOTD
Do not remove {was wotd) templates from former WOTD entries. That removes tracking information from entries, and could be construed as vandalism. --EncycloPetey (talk) 14:32, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, is there anywhere a discussion/text documenting the necessity of having these tags in the main page of an entry? What would make more sense would be to have such tags in an entry's talk page. --Omnipaedista (talk) 14:53, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You can start that discussion, if you like. We used to put them at the top of the entry, before the English header, and as a result of discussion, decided to place them in the English language section.  It's unlikely that we'd remove them, or place them on the talk page, since we're starting a non-English WOTD feature, which will necessitate marking a specific language section. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:26, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

ubinam
This does not have a macron in my sources. If you think one is required, please provide supporting evidnece. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:28, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
 * You are right about that. I was confused due to the following usage note: "The adverbs ubī (“where”), ubīnam (“where in the world?”), ubīcumque (“wherever”) and ubīubī are sometimes..." I'm going to edit it. --Omnipaedista (talk) 19:06, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

cuius
When you say that you're following W.S. Allen, do you mean the general rules he gives? My sources (e.g., Wheelock) indicate that cuius is an exception to the general rules, and that's why it had the pronunciation I gave it. In this word, the ui is considered a diphthong by Wheelock, as it is in the words cuius, huic, cui, and hui. Wheelock indicates these are the only Latin words with this diphthong. W.S. Allen seems to disagree when discussing ui, and calls it "not so much a diphthong", so I'm not sure which source to follow. --EncycloPetey (talk) 01:27, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I was referring to the general rules given by Allen. On the one hand Wheelock is a recent and reliable source, but on the other hand there should exist even more authoritative sources like recent academic papers discussing the matter. In the meanwhile I've just come across a second source indicating that a "diphthong appears in cui, huic, cuius, and huius": Caesar's Gallic War with Introduction, Notes, Vocabulary, and Grammatical Appendix (Chicago and New York: Scott Foresman and Company, 1907), second page of the Grammatical Appendix ("The first is a vowel, which makes a diphthong with the vowel that precedes it"; "The second i is the consonant, pronounced like y in yet"). As for the general matter of IPA transcriptions of Latin words, it is sort of a matter of convention; if we could lay out the rules followed in Wiktionary regarding Latin (e.g., by reviewing or rewriting "About Latin/Pronunciation"; confer the much clearer "Wikipedia:IPA for Latin") we could avoid confusing inconsistencies in the future. --Omnipaedista (talk) 13:15, 18 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Ah, another project I just don't have time to work on properly (sigh). My teaching year has started, so my time both here and on Wikipedia will be spent in small pieces.  Some history: the pronunciation page dates from my earliest edits here, when I was still hunting down IPA transcriptions for Classical Latin phonemes, so there are certainly errors. I started the page in part because, at the time, I sometimes had to edit from MS-Win computers that were unable to display IPA characters as anything but cryptic little rectangles.  Having the vowel chart allowed me to know what I was copying and pasting into pronunciations when I couldn't see the character itself.  As a result, the page was minimal, as it served the purpose of our current Edittools. --EncycloPetey (talk) 16:13, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Help with Greek links/terms
Category:term cleanup/sc=Grek currently contains pages that use the template with sc=Grek, but without specifying a language. As far as I know, most uses of Grek should be modern Greek, but there are probably some Ancient Greek words among them as well. Could you help out by replacing sc=Grek by either lang=el or lang=grc, as appropriate? 22:32, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

δέλτα
I think it generally a poor idea to remove work done by established editors without even asking them. I have replaced the two defs you removed, with cites; both were in the LSJ. -Atelaes λάλει ἐμοί 23:21, 20 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that. I hadn't noticed that this piece of information was inserted by you. The second word sense was poorly formatted and lacked a citation. It's much better now after your latest edit. --Omnipaedista (talk) 00:53, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi, I saw you speak Greek (even Ancient) so I was wondering if you could check this out and fix up the etymology so that the Greek words are actually in the right script? User: PalkiaX50 talk to meh 11:33, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Spring fever
I am rewriting the conjugation templates for Modern Greek verbs, and presently working on the 1st Conjugation. The new layout is based on that found in Βικιλεξικό and now includes imperatives. I will try to stick with this to completion for all verbs. Verbs using the new templates can be found in Category:Greek verbs with inflection-tables, I will delete the old templates as they are depopulated and try to produce a decent guide when each conjugation group is completed. I know we have been here before (Spring 2013 and Spring 2014) and will try to stick with it this time. Please look at a verb or two when you have the odd moment and comment on my talk page. — thanks  — Saltmarsh συζήτηση-talk 06:10, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

δε
Could you (or another Greek speaker; maybe ) take a look at this entry, particularly the third etymology section added in these edits? (by Nemzag?) It seems like it may just be an (ill-formatted) attempt to provide an alternative etymology for Etymology 2. - -sche (discuss) 05:38, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I've looked at the dictionary definition - any nuances would be lost in translation by me. Perhaps could help if Omnipaedista cannot.Saltmarsh (talk) 05:53, 4 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Happy 2018 everyone! The guest perhaps thought he was leaving a message to the ancient page δέ. Tricky these little particles! Maybe a good etymologist could help him rephrase his alternative etymon, if his message were forwarded to the Talk page of δέ. Something like attention grc? sarri.greek (talk) 00:24, 6 January 2018 (UTC)

title: User talk:Omnipaedista


text:
anterogradely

Adverb

 * 1)  With a forward motion

Translations

 * Portuguese: anterogradamente

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: anterogradely


text:
condescendant

Adjective

 * 1) condescending (assuming a tone of superiority or a patronizing attitude)

title: condescendant


text:
ქვიშა

Etymology
From,. Related to 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) sand

title: ქვიშა


text:
retrogradely

Adverb

 * 1)  With a backward motion
 * proteins migrating retrogradely

title: retrogradely


text:
სილა

Noun

 * 1) sand

Etymology 2
From. Compare 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) slap

title: სილა


text:
おつ

Verb

 * 1)  to fall down, drop

title: おつ


text:
bar line

Noun

 * 1)  A vertical line in musical notation used to separate two bars or measures.

Translations

 * Bulgarian: тактова черта
 * Chinese:
 * Mandarin:
 * Dutch:
 * Finnish:
 * French:
 * German:
 * Greek:
 * Icelandic: taktstrik
 * Italian: sbarretta
 * Maori: tapa, paetapa
 * Persian:
 * Polish: kreska taktowa
 * Portuguese: barra de compasso
 * Russian: та́ктовая черта́,
 * Spanish: barra de compás
 * Swedish: taktstreck

title: bar line


text: bar lines

title: bar lines


text:
sensationnel

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) sensational very good

title: sensationnel


text:
omnivoor

Noun

 * 1) omnivore, creature eating both plants and animals

title: omnivoor


text:
alleseter

Etymology
Compound of 🇰🇲.

Noun

 * 1) omnivore, creature eating both plants and other animals

title: alleseter


text:
ejectable

Adjective

 * 1) Able to be ejected.

Translations

 * French:

Noun

 * 1)  Any object that is ejected by a satellite while it is in space.

title: ejectable


text:
éjectable

Adjective

 * 1) ejectable

title: éjectable


text:
brucellose

Noun

 * 1) brucellosis ("infection by a bacterium of the genus Brucella")

title: brucellose


text:
変若つ

Etymology
[wot-] > [ot-]. Traces exist in 男|otoko and otome.

Verb

 * 1) to become young
 * 2) to be reborn
 * 1) to be reborn
 * 1) to be reborn

title: 変若つ


text:
modalverbum

Noun

 * 1)  modal verb (an auxiliary verb)

title: modalverbum


text:
復つ

Etymology
The root wot- refers to “youth, original state”, with traces found in   and.

Possibly also cognate with.

Verb

 * 1) to return to an origin or original state, to become young again, to be rejuvenated, to be restored to a youthful state
 * , text here
 * , text here
 * 1) to be reborn
 * , text here
 * 1) to be reborn
 * , text here

title: 復つ


text:
zaskroniec

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) grass snake, water snake
 * 2) grass snake

title: zaskroniec


text:
antiphosphorylated

Adjective

 * 1)  Bonding specifically to a phosphorylated antigen

title: antiphosphorylated


text:
antilitter

Adjective

 * 1) Opposing or proscribing littering

title: antilitter


text:
antigraffiti

Adjective

 * 1) Opposing or proscribing graffiti
 * This town has an antigraffiti law.

Translations

 * Portuguese: antipichação

title: antigraffiti


text:
coquille Saint-Jacques

Noun

 * 1) scallop mollusc

title: coquille Saint-Jacques


text:
antievolution

Adjective

 * 1) Opposing the teaching or espousal of evolutionary theories, often specifically the Darwinian theory of natural selection

Translations

 * Portuguese: antievolucionista

title: antievolution


text:
добрый вечер

Interjection

 * 1) good evening

title: добрый вечер


text:
спокойной ночи

Interjection

 * 1) good night

title: спокойной ночи


text:
frelser

Etymology 1
From.

Noun

 * 1) saviour
 * 2)  the Saviour

Etymology 1
From.

Noun

 * 1) a savior (US) or saviour (UK) (person who rescues another from harm)

title: frelser


text:
Gazastreifen

Proper noun

 * 1)  the  due to its many Arab locations
 * 1)  the  due to its many Arab locations

title: Gazastreifen


text:
viettely

Noun

 * 1) seduction act of seducing

title: viettely


text:
programmability

Noun

 * 1) The abstract capability of being programmable.

Translations

 * Czech: programovatelnost
 * German: Programmierbarkeit

title: programmability


text:
lápide

Etymology
Borrowed from. .

Noun

 * 1) tombstone stone on grave

title: lápide


text:
duizelig

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) dizzy, experiencing equilibrium-trouble

title: duizelig


text:
schwindelig

Adjective

 * 1) dizzy (having a sensation of turning around)

Usage notes

 * Can used with either a personal subject or an implied impersonal subject:
 * or
 * or

title: schwindelig


text:
aktuelli

Etymology
From, via.

Adjective

 * 1) current existing or occurring at the moment
 * 2) real

title: aktuelli


text:
oikea-aikainen

Adjective

 * 1) timely done, happening or appearing at the proper time

title: oikea-aikainen


text:
telesync

Noun

 * 1) A bootlegged video copy of a movie, shot in a movie theater, often with a professional camera on a tripod in the projection booth, and with a direct connection to the sound source.

Usage notes

 * When bootlegged films are distributed over computer networks, telesync is often indicated by TS in the filename.

title: telesync


text: napnyugták

title: napnyugták


text:
वैश्वानर

Etymology
.

Adjective

 * 1) relating or belonging to all men, omnipresent, known or worshipped everywhere, universal, general, common
 * 2) consisting of all men, full in number, complete
 * 3) relating or belonging to the gods collectively
 * 4) all-commanding
 * 5) relating or sacred to
 * 6) composed by  or

Noun

 * 1) name of Agni or Fire (Agni Vaiśvānara is regarded as the author of RV x, 79, 80)
 * 2) a particular
 * 3) the fire of digestion
 * 4) the sun, sunlight
 * 5)  name of the Supreme Spirit or Intellect when located in a supposed collective aggregate of gross bodies
 * 6) name of a daitya
 * 7) name of various men
 * 8)  name of a family of rishis
 * 9) a particular sacrifice performed at the beginning of every year

Noun

 * 1) men collectively, mankind
 * 2) name of a

title: वैश्वानर


text:
黄泉

Etymology 1
* → * → → * →

From, first attested in the , the oldest extant historical record of ancient Japan, compiled in 712. Appears to be the older combining form of yomi (see below).

The ablaut or apophonic form of cognate. Mountains were often used as a place to bury the dead and were strongly associated with the afterlife.

, incorporating the underworld from.

Noun

 * 1)  the land of the dead; the afterworld, underworld

Usage notes

 * Takes the Old Japanese possessive particle, as in the phrase.

Etymology 2
→ * →

From, first attested in the  (712 ) alongside its combining form yomo (see above).

The ablaut or apophonic form of yomo. For this vowel alternation, see WT:AJPX.

, incorporating the underworld from.

Noun

 * 1)  the land of the dead; the afterworld, underworld

Etymology 3
Compound of +.

The kanji spelling reflects the extension of the sense from "the road to the underworld" to '"the underworld" itself.

Noun

 * : the road to the land of the dead; by extension, the underworld itself

Usage notes
The spelling may be more common in certain contexts.

Derived terms

 * : alternative name for : scaly thrush
 * : alternative name for : scaly thrush

Etymology 4
→ →  →

From. Attested in various texts.

Noun

 * 1) an underground spring
 * 2) the underworld, the land of the dead

title: 黄泉


text:
Vaisnavara

Etymology
From.

Proper noun

 * 1)  A name of the fire-god Agni, in his function as a benevolent power.

title: Vaisnavara


text:
Citations:Vaisnavara

 * 1896 — Ralph T. H. Griffith, Rigveda, Mandala 5, Hymn 27
 * Protect Tryaruna, as thou art waxing strong and art highly praised, Vaisvanara Agni!

title: Citations:Vaisnavara


text: arkangyalok

title: arkangyalok


text:
蘇る

Etymology
From the classical yodan katsuyō verb yomigaheru, itself derived from +. The kaeru changes to gaeru as an instance of.

Verb

 * 1) to be reborn, reanimated, resurrected, or resuscitated
 * 2) to become more active after declining
 * 1) to become more active after declining
 * 1) to become more active after declining
 * 1) to become more active after declining
 * 1) to become more active after declining
 * 1) to become more active after declining

title: 蘇る


text: bedrocks

title: bedrocks


text: Yachten

title: Yachten


text: Ypsilons

title: Ypsilons


text: Ypsila

title: Ypsila


text: Yetis

title: Yetis


text: Zeitmaschinen

title: Zeitmaschinen


text: Zeitlupen

title: Zeitlupen


text:
eter

Etymology
From. Equivalent to.

Noun

 * 1) eater

Etymology
, from, from , from.

Noun

 * 1)  organic compound containing an oxygen atom bonded to two hydrocarbon groups.
 * 2)  fifth element of Aristotelian natural philosophy, supposed to be the building block of the heavens.
 * 3)  luminiferous aether, medium in which electromagnetic waves were supposed to occur.
 * 1)  luminiferous aether, medium in which electromagnetic waves were supposed to occur.

Etymology 1
From, equivalent to.

Noun

 * 1) an eater

Etymology 2
From, from.

Noun

 * 1) ether
 * 2) ether
 * 3) the airwaves

Etymology
From, from.

Noun

 * 1) ether
 * 2) ether
 * 3) the airwaves

Etymology
From (whence 🇨🇬), from. Cognate with 🇨🇬 and 🇨🇬.

Preposition

 * 1) between, among
 * "sga"
 * "sga"

- Do·adbadar sund trá .i. irbága ro·bátar leosom eter desciplu debe; óentu immurgu eter a magistru. Mógi sidi uili do Día; acht do·rigénsat in descipuil dechor etarru déu diib: is hed on ɔsecha-som.

Etymology
From, from.

Noun

 * 1) poison, venom
 * 2) pus

Etymology
, from, from.

Noun

 * 1) ether
 * 2)  diethyl ether
 * 3)  ether

Etymology
,.

Noun

 * 1)  ether compound containing an oxygen atom bonded to two hydrocarbon groups
 * 2)  ether substance once thought to fill all space

Noun

 * 1)  air, sky, atmosphere
 * 2)  ether classical physical element

Etymology
Ultimately from ; possibly via or.

Noun

 * 1) ether (a chemical)
 * Sedan Morton (1846) lärt känna eterns bedöfvande verkan --Nordisk familjebok (1917)
 * 1) ether (once thought a substance filling all space, carrying electromagnetic waves; or the sky in general)
 * Cedern strävar stolt mot eterns dag. --poetry by Erik Johan Stagnelius (c. 1820)
 * Eterns tillvaro har ännu ej kunnat direkt påvisas --Nordisk familjebok (1881)
 * 1) ether (as an (imaginary) broadcast medium)

Etymology
From, from , from.

Noun

 * 1)  ether

title: eter


text: Zeitpunkts

title: Zeitpunkts


text: Zeitpunktes

title: Zeitpunktes


text: Zeitpunkte

title: Zeitpunkte


text: Zeitschriften

title: Zeitschriften


text: Zeitzeugen

title: Zeitzeugen


text: Zitadellen

title: Zitadellen


text: Zirkusse

title: Zirkusse


text: Zahns

title: Zahns


text: Zahnes

title: Zahnes


text: Zahnarztes

title: Zahnarztes


text: Zahnärzte

title: Zahnärzte


text: Zahlungen

title: Zahlungen


text: Zahltags

title: Zahltags


text: Zahltages

title: Zahltages


text: Zahltage

title: Zahltage


text: Zahnarzthelferinnen

title: Zahnarzthelferinnen


text: Zahnarztpraxen

title: Zahnarztpraxen


text: Zahnfüllungen

title: Zahnfüllungen


text: Zahnrads

title: Zahnrads


text: Zahnrades

title: Zahnrades


text: Zahnräder

title: Zahnräder


text: Zahnspangen

title: Zahnspangen


text: Vaisvānara

title: Vaisvānara


text: Zahnwurzeln

title: Zahnwurzeln


text: dinoszauruszok

title: dinoszauruszok


text: Zankapfels

title: Zankapfels


text: Zankäpfel

title: Zankäpfel


text: Zanders

title: Zanders


text: Zangen

title: Zangen


text:
Citations:Vaisvānara

 * 1896 — Ralph T. H. Griffith, Atarvaveda, Book 1, Hymn 10
 * I free thee from Vaisvānara, from the great surging flood of sin.

title: Citations:Vaisvānara


text: Zahnstochers

title: Zahnstochers


text: Zentrums

title: Zentrums


text: Zentralheizungen

title: Zentralheizungen


text: Zellen

title: Zellen


text: Zentralbanken

title: Zentralbanken


text: Zombies

title: Zombies


text: Zoologen

title: Zoologen


text: Zeppelins

title: Zeppelins


text: Zeppeline

title: Zeppeline


text: Zenturien

title: Zenturien


text:
तूलि

Noun

 * 1) painter's brush

title: तूलि


text: Zerstörers

title: Zerstörers


text: Zapfhahns

title: Zapfhahns


text: Zapfhahnes

title: Zapfhahnes


text: Zapfhähne

title: Zapfhähne


text: Zapfsäulen

title: Zapfsäulen


text: Zerreißproben

title: Zerreißproben


text: Zentrierschlüssels

title: Zentrierschlüssels


text: Zentralkomitees

title: Zentralkomitees


text: Zeremonien

title: Zeremonien


text: Zertifizierungen

title: Zertifizierungen


text: botanikusok

title: botanikusok


text: Zettels

title: Zettels


text: Zaubers

title: Zaubers


text: Zauberers

title: Zauberers


text: Zauberkünstlers

title: Zauberkünstlers


text: Zauberinnen

title: Zauberinnen


text:
unguentum

Etymology
From. Compare.

Noun

 * 1) ointment; perfume; unguent.

Declension

 * In Plautus, the genitive plural is found as rather than.

title: unguentum


text:
tendor

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) stretching, straining, tension

Related terms

 * tentīgō
 * tentīgō
 * tentīgō
 * tentīgō
 * tentīgō
 * tentīgō

title: tendor


text:
अचित्ति

Noun

 * 1) want of sense, senselessness, infatuation
 * 2) (figuratively said of) an infatuated man

title: अचित्ति


text:
tensura

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) stretching, straining, tension

title: tensura


text: Zeugnisses

title: Zeugnisses


text: Zeugnisse

title: Zeugnisse


text: Zibben

title: Zibben


text: Zensuren

title: Zensuren


text: Zentralen

title: Zentralen


text: Zensors

title: Zensors


text: Zensoren

title: Zensoren


text: Zements

title: Zements


text: Zementes

title: Zementes


text: Zemente

title: Zemente


text:
tentipellium

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) That which stretches out a skin or hide: a hidestretcher, leather-stretcher.

Related terms

 * tentīgō
 * tentīgō
 * tentīgō
 * tentīgō
 * tentīgō
 * tentīgō
 * tentīgō

title: tentipellium


text: Zelts

title: Zelts


text: Zeltes

title: Zeltes


text: Ziegelsteins

title: Ziegelsteins


text: Ziegelsteines

title: Ziegelsteines


text: Ziegelsteine

title: Ziegelsteine


text: Zimtschnecken

title: Zimtschnecken


text: Zufahrten

title: Zufahrten


text: Zubehörs

title: Zubehörs


text: Zopfs

title: Zopfs


text: Zopfes

title: Zopfes


text: Zöpfe

title: Zöpfe


text: Zugvogels

title: Zugvogels


text: Zugvögel

title: Zugvögel


text: Zugbrücken

title: Zugbrücken


text: Zugs

title: Zugs


text: Zuges

title: Zuges


text: Zugangs

title: Zugangs


text: Zuganges

title: Zuganges


text: Zugänge

title: Zugänge


text: Zufälligkeiten

title: Zufälligkeiten


text: Zugriffs

title: Zugriffs


text: Zugriffes

title: Zugriffes


text: Zugriffe

title: Zugriffe


text: Zubers

title: Zubers


text: Zuckers

title: Zuckers


text:
maciejka

Noun

 * 1) the plant

title: maciejka


text:
tensio

Noun

 * 1) tension

Etymology
(see 🇨🇬), ultimately from.

Noun

 * 1) tension

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) stretching, stretching out, extension
 * 2) tension

Descendants

 * Inherited:
 * Borrowed:
 * Borrowed:
 * Borrowed:

title: tensio


text: Zitronenfalters

title: Zitronenfalters


text: Zitate

title: Zitate


text: Zitats

title: Zitats


text: Zitates

title: Zitates


text: Zockers

title: Zockers


text: Zobels

title: Zobels


text: Zollbeamten

title: Zollbeamten


text: Zitzen

title: Zitzen


text: Zitteraals

title: Zitteraals


text: Zitteraales

title: Zitteraales


text: Zitteraale

title: Zitteraale


text:
monopolium

Etymology
From, from +.

Noun

 * 1) A right of exclusive sale in dealing or selling a thing.
 * 2) a monopoly

title: monopolium


text: electric eels

title: electric eels


text: diversifiers

title: diversifiers


text: anguilas

title: anguilas


text:
gendarmeries

Noun
`

title: gendarmeries


text:
mysticus

Etymology
From, from.

Adjective

 * 1) Of or belonging to secret rites or mysteries.
 * 2) mystic, mystical

title: mysticus


text:
laicale

Adjective

 * 1) lay, secular, laic

title: laicale


text:
പരിഹാരം

Etymology
, derived from, , from the root.

Noun

 * 1) answer; solution

title: പരിഹാരം


text:
lavoraccio

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) chore, fag, challenge
 * 2) pig's ear, mess-up, balls-up

title: lavoraccio


text:
coped

Adjective

 * 1) Clad in a cope.

title: coped


text:
жал

Etymology 1
From. Cognate with 🇨🇬; 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, etc.

Noun

 * 1) horse mane

Noun

 * 1) crest, ridge

Noun

 * 1) hired work
 * 2) excuse

Etymology
From, etc.

Noun

 * 1) mane

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) sorrow, grief
 * 2) pity

Etymology 1
.

Noun

 * 1) sorrow, grief

Noun

 * 1) strand, beach

title: жал


text:
žalo

Noun

 * 1) beach, seaside, shore, sea bank

title: žalo


text:
wonkish

Adjective

 * 1)  Nerdy; bookish; having the qualities of a wonk.

title: wonkish


text: knockoffs

title: knockoffs


text: Zirbelkiefern

title: Zirbelkiefern


text: Zitterpappeln

title: Zitterpappeln


text: Zirbeln

title: Zirbeln


text: Zirkels

title: Zirkels


text: Zimtzicken

title: Zimtzicken


text: Zimmerpflanzen

title: Zimmerpflanzen


text: Zinses

title: Zinses


text: Zinsen

title: Zinsen


text: Zufalls

title: Zufalls


text: Zufälle

title: Zufälle


text: Zuckerwürfels

title: Zuckerwürfels


text: Zufallsvariablen

title: Zufallsvariablen


text: Zebrafinken

title: Zebrafinken


text: Zauberpilzes

title: Zauberpilzes


text: Zauberpilze

title: Zauberpilze


text: Zebrastreifens

title: Zebrastreifens


text: Zierfisches

title: Zierfisches


text: Zierfische

title: Zierfische


text: Ziegenbarts

title: Ziegenbarts


text: Ziegenbartes

title: Ziegenbartes


text: Ziegenbärte

title: Ziegenbärte


text: Zabels

title: Zabels


text:
OAD

Noun

 * 1)  Original Anime Disc — an LD, DVD or VCD based OVA
 * 2)  Original Animation DVD

title: OAD


text: mezzos

title: mezzos


text:
LD

Noun

 * : The left wing player defensive position
 * : The left wing player defensive position
 * : The left wing player defensive position
 * : The left wing player defensive position
 * : The left wing player defensive position
 * : The left wing player defensive position

Noun

 * 1) laser disc

Related terms

 * VCD, SVCD, DVD

title: LD


text: barátok

title: barátok


text:
grecismo

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1)  grecism

title: grecismo


text:
innamoratissimo

Etymology
From.

title: innamoratissimo


text:
dealmaker

Noun

 * 1) One who makes or brokers business or political transactions

title: dealmaker


text:
gufare

Verb

 * 1)  to hoot
 * 2)  to snort
 * 3)  to bring bad luck, to jinx
 * 4)  to mock by blowing into the fist to make a hooting sound
 * 5)  to mock
 * 1)  to mock by blowing into the fist to make a hooting sound
 * 2)  to mock

title: gufare


text:
หาด

Etymology
From.

Cognate with 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬, 🇨🇬.

Noun

 * 1) beach; shoal.

title: หาด


text:
contemporize

Verb

 * 1) To bring up to date; often specifically to set a historical narrative in a modern context
 * 2)  To modify, repackage, or present a well-known or traditional product or brand in a way that appeals to contemporary consumers.
 * 1)  To modify, repackage, or present a well-known or traditional product or brand in a way that appeals to contemporary consumers.

title: contemporize


text:
ชายหาด

Etymology
From 🇰🇲.

Noun

 * 1) beach.

title: ชายหาด


text:
լողափ

Noun

 * 1) beach

title: լողափ


text:
lusinghevole

Etymology
From.

Adjective

 * 1) flattering, satisfying

title: lusinghevole


text:
肥胖

Adjective

 * 1) fat; corpulent

Noun

 * 1) obesity

title: 肥胖


text:
catwalklike

Adjective

 * 1) Resembling or characteristic of a catwalk.
 * 2) Resembling or characteristic of a fashion catwalk or the manner of a fashion model.
 * 1) Resembling or characteristic of a fashion catwalk or the manner of a fashion model.

title: catwalklike


text:
blurrily

Adverb

 * 1) In a blurry fashion; lacking clarity
 * Without my glasses, I could only blurrily see what was happening.

title: blurrily


text:
stimulo

Noun

 * 1) stimulation

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to urge on, goad on, stimulate, rouse up
 * 2) to torment, vex, trouble, disquiet, disturb
 * 1) to torment, vex, trouble, disquiet, disturb
 * 1) to torment, vex, trouble, disquiet, disturb

title: stimulo


text:
arpeggiation

Noun

 * 1)  The act of arpeggiating, of spreading a chord out instead of playing the notes simultaneously.

Translations

 * Portuguese: arpejamento

title: arpeggiation


text:
stimulare

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) stimulation

title: stimulare


text:
趕不上

Verb

 * 1) to be unable to overtake; to be unable to catch up with
 * 2) to be not be as good as
 * 3) to not to (be able to) make it; to not be able to do something on time; to not have enough time; to be too late
 * 4) to be unable to meet with

title: 趕不上


text:
immobilismo

Noun

 * 1) inactivity, ultraconservative policy

title: immobilismo


text: 赶不上

title: 赶不上


text:
toothwort

Etymology
. From having an appearance similar to teeth.

Noun

 * 1) Any of several species of flowering plants of the genus.
 * 2) Any of the species of plants in subgenus, formerly genus.

Related terms

 * ( spp.)
 * ( spp.)
 * ( spp. etc.)
 * ( spp. etc.)

Translations

 * Bulgarian: горска майка
 * Dutch:
 * French:
 * German: Schuppenwurz
 * Polish: łuskiewnik
 * Romanian:
 * Welsh: deintlys

title: toothwort


text:
loggiato

Noun

 * 1)  arcade, open gallery

title: loggiato


text:
bãi biển

Etymology
🇰🇲.

Noun

 * 1) beach

title: bãi biển


text:
不上

Verb

 * 1) to not go up; to not ascend
 * 2)  unable to

Usage notes
When placed behind a verb, 不上 has a meaning of "unable to achieve" + verb. The opposite to 不上 would be ("able to" + verb).

title: 不上


text: lustaságok

title: lustaságok


text:
怒氣

Noun

 * 1) anger; fury; rage

title: 怒氣


text: 怒气

title: 怒气


text:
šindel

Noun

 * 1) shingle part of a roof

title: šindel


text:
istintualità

Etymology
From.

Noun

 * 1) instinctive nature

title: istintualità


text:
došek

Noun

 * 1) thatch part of a roof

title: došek


text: associative arrays

title: associative arrays


text:
tughadh

Noun

 * 1) thatching, act of thatching
 * 2) thatch
 * 1) thatch

title: tughadh


text:
Template:clear your cache

lear your cache (ctrl+shift+F5)

title: Template:clear your cache


text:
tugh

Etymology
From, verbal noun of.

Verb

 * 1) thatch, cover
 * 2) back

title: tugh


text:
仆地

Adverb

 * 1)  suddenly

title: 仆地


text:
pernumero

Etymology
From.

Verb

 * 1) to reckon up, count out

title: pernumero


text:
submachine

Noun

 * 1) A machine forming part of a larger machine.
 * 2)  A part of a real or virtual machine which acts as a machine in its own right.

Etymology 2
Shortened from submachine gun.

Adjective

 * 1) Of or pertaining to a submachine gun.

title: submachine


text: submachines

title: submachines


text: industrials

title: industrials


text:
wipeout

Etymology
.

Noun

 * 1) The act of colliding or crashing.
 * 2) Total destruction or elimination.
 * 3)  The act of falling off one's surfboard.
 * 1)  The act of falling off one's surfboard.
 * 1)  The act of falling off one's surfboard.

Translations

 * Bulgarian: ,
 * Dutch:
 * Finnish:, , poispyyhkäisy,
 * French: ,
 * Spanish: ,

title: wipeout


text:
untucked

Adjective

 * 1)  Not tucked in

title: untucked


text:
unswervingly

Adverb

 * 1) Without deviation; not swerving
 * He followed his course unswervingly.

title: unswervingly


text: sceneries

title: sceneries


text: wipeouts

title: wipeouts


text:
ultrasecure

Adjective

 * 1) Extremely secure
 * The president was rushed to an ultrasecure bunker.

title: ultrasecure


text: oblázky

title: oblázky


text: designees

title: designees


text:
ד״ר

Pronunciation

 * Usually pronounced as.

Noun

 * 1) Dr:
 * 2)  MD:.

Etymology
Either a naturally formed shortening or derived from the.

Pronunciation

 * pronounced as

Noun

 * 1) Dr., Dr: title used for those with doctoral degrees, including medical doctors;.

title: ד״ר


text:
designee

Noun

 * 1)  One who has been designated

title: designee


text:
escortee

Noun

 * 1) One who is escorted

title: escortee


text:
dogfighting

Noun

 * 1) A blood sport in which dogs fight with one another.
 * Dogfighting is illegal in most countries.
 * 1)  Close combat between two military aircraft.

title: dogfighting


text: escortees

title: escortees


text:
Wiktionary talk:About Hungarian

Dictionary
I found this dictionary to be very helpful in my research have a look and let me know if it helped you or what you think about it. http://www.free-dictionary-translation.com
 * I looked at it, the way it returns words looks similar to SZTAKI or VIDRA dictionaries. There is no pronunciation, explanation, declension, usage notes, etc. But it contains more Hungarian words and expressions than Wiktionary. What is your research area and how was the free-dictionary helpful to you? --Panda10 15:21, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

e-ë distinction
Something that I think is missing from the Hungarian entries is the information about the e-ë distinction.

What is it
There are many Hungarian people (I don't know percentage) who say different sounds for the written letter e. A more open variant and a more closed variant (written ë if the distinction is important). And this doesn't happen at random at all! So when it happens bears information.

Why this
This is a feature that many Hungarian dialects (don't just think of little villages) possess. Most other dialectal pronunciation is predictable, but since the e and ë sounds are both written e, outsiders cannot possibly predict it from the written form. So it would be a real information.

How to implement
First of all it should only appear in entries of words containing the letter e.

It could appear in the pronunciation section as a list item. egy would be:

Pronunciation

 * With e-ë distinction: ëgy
 * With e-ë distinction: ëgy
 * With e-ë distinction: ëgy

The size might be small:

Pronunciation

 * With e-ë distinction: ëgy
 * With e-ë distinction: ëgy
 * With e-ë distinction: ëgy

The words could link to a wikipedia page or to a no-yet-written Appendix here.

Putting it to the IPA line and using []-brace (specific) IPA would not be a good idea because the exact sound is different in each dialect. The e in Dialect1 might be the ë in Dialect2. They would look like the following in openness order: ë (D1) < e (D1) = ë (D2) < e (D2). Some dialects say ö in place of ë. So it is not really the pronunciation issue that is interesting to us, but the distinction itself. Which one is which, and then it becomes predictable for each specific dialect what the exact pronunctiation is.

What do you think? Qorilla 14:02, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

 * I am always for improving Hungarian entries. But with so few editors and so little time, we need to set some priorities and decide what's important. Also, it is simply not known who uses the Hungarian section of this dictionary. Would the e/ë distinction be helpful to an average learner? Or are we creating our entries for the linguists who would love to know about fine distinctions in the language. Unfortunately, I don't have enough knowledge about e/ë to contribute and I think the Hungarian section is still very much in need of general development, adding more words, translations, templates, better structure, the representation of the information, correcting mistakes, etc. Your contribution so far is very valuable and I wonder if you'd like to continue along this line. Would you be interested in creating a project page, similar to Project - Spanish it could be called Project - Hungarian where the projects would be listed. I have a list of things to do, which is mostly general and could be applied to any of the foreign languages here. We could start the project page with a simple list, than add as we go. Here it is. Let me know what you think, what's missing and if creating a project page makes sense at all.

 * Create entries
 * Create main entries for each red link in Index:Hungarian
 * Create entries for requested words in Wiktionary:Requested entries:Hungarian
 * Clear Category:Tbot entries (Hungarian)
 * Add verb forms and noun forms (SemperBlotto has a bot)
 * Rethink the structure of noun form entries, the, especially when a series of suffixes are present. E.g. kertemet - should it simply say accusative of kertem then at kertem it would say possessive of kert or should it say possessive and accusative of kert?

 * Templates
 * Create declension/conjugation tables to cover all types
 * Review the function of existing templates and improve, simplify, clean, standardize if possible
 * Add functionality to to allow for compound types: organic (szerves) - non-organic (szervetlen), subordinative (alárendelő)  (subjective - alanyos, objective - tárgyas, determinative - határozós, adjunctive - jelzős, xx? - jelentéstömörítő) and coordinative (mellérendelő) (valódi mellérendelő, word duplication - szóismétlés, twin words - ikerszók); each can be jelölt and jelöletlen.

 * Categories
 * Improve the structure (categories) and make sure each existing entry is added to appropriate categories
 * Improve the visibility of hard to find pages, appendices, index
 * Add to each verb that takes arguments

 * Etymology
 * Review existing etymology sections and correct if needed
 * Add etymology to each entry
 * Decide what goes in the ety section for compound words and derived words

 * Example sentences
 * Add example sentences to each main entry
 * Add example sentences to each verb form and noun form entry

 * Pronunciation
 * Record audio for every word, but at least for the most common
 * Add e/ë distinction

 * Pictures
 * Add pictures from Commons, if there are none, create and upload your own work

 * Definitions
 * List the available English context labels with their corresponding Hungarian translation so editors can use it appropriately
 * Add context lables when appropriate
 * Add transitive/intransitive label to verbs

 * Translations
 * Verify that each Hungarian entry is also added to the appropriate English entry as a translation
 * Clear Category:Translation requests (Hungarian)
 * Clear Category:Translations to be checked (Hungarian)

 * Patrolling
 * Review anon edits in Hungarian entries

--Panda10 22:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

 * These quite match up what I have in mind! Kinda, you took the words out of my mouth :D My general plan is that we can go along doing stuff the way we did, and besides that, the rethinking could go. That is the thing I'd really like to do, rethinking and reorganizing and making things more logical and coherent. (I am fighting with conjugation at the moment. Hungarian conjugation is pretty complicated but I'm making progress.) I also have plans for some new Appendix pages. And having a bit more organized Derived terms section. Rethinking the treatment of suffixes. Seeing what can be automated or semi-automated and how. I will do these as my time allows. I am also in some of these but only in early phase. The Project site will be really needed but maybe not now. And I still feel a nice reader-portal could be also useful, but English Wiktionary doesnt seem to have a place for it. But I think we are in no hurry as this is just a kindof hobby. This text may be a bit incoherent, I changed it a few times and it's late night so forgive me. Besides may I ask in what time-zone you live? Your edits seem to come in odd times :) I'm just curious. Qorilla 23:13, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Great! If you need feedback or input about structure, etc. let me know. I live in the ET time zone, it's 7:50 pm. --Panda10 23:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I'd like to update you that the morphological etymologies are very helpful for Hungarian students. Though it would be even better if there was a visual distinction between derivation (which change POS) and inflection/declination. OrenBochman 10:23, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Templates
I have most conjugation templates finished. There are quite many. I tried to make fewer but I was warned that the many if's needed for that will make huge server load, so I separated them. As there are 3 vowel-harmony types, and 5 templates for each, I ended up with 15 templates, which still use if's for some flags but much less. Plus an extra for the front vowel, the tegyek, vegyek-type. Then those that must be handled individually because they are irregular, like jön, megy, van. Uploading all will not happen at once as I need to test them to be sure. So I will upload them it the sandbox first, test it, then put it to its place then go for the next. Qorilla 08:56, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

 * That's fine. I am not worried about the number of templates. What's important is to maintain a clear, constistent template naming convention and parameter sequence. For example, a while ago you added a new functionality to hu-pos to handle út, kút and their derivatives which is great. However, the parameters for these types of words have to be entered differently. Normally, the first parameter is the head word, then any stem changes. For út, the order is reversed: hu-pos-atok|ut|j|jai|longstem=út, the consistent order would be hu-pos-atok|út|j|jai|shortstem=ut. This is what I mean when I say let's try to be consistent, this will make the usage easier. Would you mind listing the template names here and what they do? For example: hu-conj-ok-ik, hu-conj-ek-ik, hu-conj-ök-ik - handle the conjugation of verbs ending in ik, etc. Were you able to keep similar parameter settings as in the existing templates? Do the new templates use the same hu-conj base template? You could also upload one of the templates, add the documentation, so we can discuss. --Panda10 14:02, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

 * I don't really understand the issue with kút. Most times one has to write the shortened stem to the first place. See for example kerék, hatalom. That is the standard way. Most words do not use the unchanged, longer stem, only the short one. So if you want to be consistent with decl (which is not so important as it is another family of templates) then we need to skip an empty place for the normal stem. Like kerék would be, which complicates the things too much and is not easy to handle (and needs a mass bot change). I think the first parameter should be the one that is used to form the normal possessives (with the possible stem change), and for those few exceptions that also use the long stem, it needs to be provided extra. I thought about it then and I found this as the easiest way. What do you think? Qorilla 17:24, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

 * There is no issue. It's a matter of different views. I was hoping that we can figure out a way to make the parameter sequence more consistent in all Hungarian templates, to make the editing experience easier. If that is not feasible, than it's not feasible. --Panda10 17:50, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * pos not even consistent with decl today, as per kerék. I think the current way is effective, as most times the possessive only uses one kind of stem. Qorilla 18:11, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

 * There are some exotic types that are not yet fully tested (weird stuff like melegszik - melegedjek), so I need a bit more testing time before finished. Hungarian conjugation is really complicated. But I'm near the finish. Qorilla 17:37, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

 * No rush. We can always create a unique template just for exotic types if there are no other similar ones. --Panda10 17:50, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Alright. I just want to let you know that I'll go for a short vacation tomorrow so I will only continue next weekend. Qorilla 18:11, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Enjoy your vacation! --Panda10 18:17, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Suffix template
I think we should rework the hu-suffix template:
 * allow multiple suffixes
 * allow translations and alternative representations using
 * handling linking vowels inside the template, that is we shouldnt type "linking vowel" each time, so changing or formatting will occur at once at all places.

I made a draft at the Sandbox. It is not changed often so I suppose you will see this:

parameters:

This is of course not a normal usage, it just demonstrates the capabilities, normal usage will be a lot shorter. Qorilla 18:11, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

 * I agree with the three bullets, but the resulting etymology line appears a little too crowded and not easy to capture/comprehend with one look. Here are my thoughts:
 * Base word
 * When the base word is not a valid entry, wouldn't it be better to say From the shortened stem of álom instead of saying álm? I don't want to mislead the learners stating that álm means dream.

 * Yes, álom should be preferred in an ety. section
 * Linking vowels
 * We should determine how to handle the linking vowels. Should we always separate them from the suffix? And dump all variants into one huge category? Wouldn't it be more interesting to see all words with -os in one category? Not to mention that linguists always talk about suffix clusters (képzőbokor), e.g. -s/-os/-as/-es/-ös. So maybe we should list the pros and cons of each method and decide.
 * If we decide to always separate the linking vowels, instead of adding "linking vowel", we should create an entry for -a-, -e-, -o-, etc. and explain that this is a linking vowel and list all the suffixes where this may be used. In this case, -a- would become a blue link in the etymology. Eliminating the "linking vowel" phrase would reduce clutter in the ety line.

 * I vote for never separating any linking vowels. Linking vowels just make things more complicated in diplay and for learners as there are many of them and suffixes differ on which ones they accept. However, we should mention at the entries like -es that it can also be considered a linking vowel + -s. The only problem with this is that we have to explain the exact same meaning at all the variants.
 * Translations
 * Is it necessary to translate each element? Without translation the line would look cleaner. Users can always look up the meaning of the suffix on its own entry page. Adding tranlations will increase the workload and the possibility of mistakes. I do think that translations are important when the base word has many different meanings and it is necessary to clarify in the etymology which sense is used.

 * Suffix translations should be used sparingly (only in obvious situations). But as we can optionally translate in hu-compound, the option could be left here too. Most (almost all!) etymologies will only contain one suffix.
 * Categorization
 * How will the template categorize the words when multiple suffixes are present? The new template puts the word into a new category, Hungarian words suffixed with -k, not sure if that was intentional. Plurals should go to Hungarian plurals.
 * The "Hungarian words suffixed with -xx" categories should not be used for declined/inflected verb/noun forms.
 * For noun forms, the categorization is done by hu-inflection of template, so if you use hu-suffix in the ety line, it should have the nocat=y parameter. The noun form categories are better defined at this point than the verb form categories.

 * We could introduce a pos parameter, so we could tell to categorize not into Hungarian words suffixed with xx, but Hungarian pos suffixed with -xx. For special cases like the plural, we could use nocat and do the categorisation explicitly on the page. If multiple suffixes are attached, categorisation happens according to the las one attached (even in this form that I wrote) Qorilla 23:35, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

--Panda10 22:53, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Summary

 * 1) Modify the template to accept new optional parameters but leave the current parameters intact, so current entries that use those parameters will not be affected.
 * 2) Always use a valid base word, even if a shortened stem, a v stem etc. are suffixed. An explanation can be added "From the v stem of ...", "From the shortened stem of...". Question: What to do when the base word does not exist? Should we create an entry for them with Particle pos header?
 * 3) Do not add alt1
 * 4) Add translation parameters t1, t2, t3 ... tn (where n = the number of max suffixes + 1)
 * 5) Decide the maximum number of suffixes and add code to handle it.
 * 6) Do not separate linking vowels. If an unlinked text is absolutely needed in the middle of the word for any reason, the current link parameter can be used.
 * 7) Categorize the entry based on the last suffix.
 * 8) Add a pos parameter to allow categorization by part of speech since many of our suffixes are specific to a part of speech.
 * 9) A pos parameter will also help separate words into separate categories where a single suffix has multiple meanings (e.g. -ul). --Panda10 00:26, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Test
parameters:

As to the question about nonexistent stems, I think we should not create an entry. We should note in the Etym section that the word has an ending but it is not suffixed to an existing word (with better wording but the sense should be this). A use of an entry about an alone-nonexistent stem would be to collect the derived terms from it. That should be done in Related terms sections of the "derived terms" themselves, if we don't create that entry about the non-existent stem.

Another thing: I often see words that have an ending, but the etym section just states it originates from some proto-root, but does not address how that root was changed when it became Hungarian. We should link to the suffix page somehow, like saying in the etym section "with the suffix -xx". Qorilla 12:52, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

 * I started adding the 'pos' parameters and making the categories. When it's finished the 'word' categories should be deleted. Qorilla 18:39, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Ok, but cleaning out one category at a time would be a better method than one word here and there. I am concerned that this would lead to chaos. --Panda10 00:38, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. I just experimented around a bit by creating some new categories. I think we should link the categories somehow together. Like the cat. of -os adjectives should have a link in the intro section to the -as, -es etc. Another thing: cleaning out -ság/-ség would really need some bot work. If we have to do it manually then we rather shouldn't. Qorilla 09:08, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Vowel harmony template
We type many times: "Used in fron vowel words. The back vowel variant is -xx, the rounded front variant is -yy etc." It would be effective to create a template for this. And I think it does not belong to the definition part. I think we would need a Grammar notes section similar to the Usage notes, where we could explain clearly grammatical features, like how the suffix changes the stem (lenghtening a,e or not, explaining linking vowels, vowel harmony variants, how the created word can be further suffixed (like Józsiék will be suffixed Józsiékat, not -ot as normally would be) etc.) The usage notes are better for really how to actually use it in life. Like when to say it, whom to say it etc but not such exact things as firm grammar rules. What do you think? Qorilla 12:59, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I like the idea of a template, it should make it easier to add these type of comments and the text itself will be more standardized. I read the BP discussion about the Grammar notes. Using the available Usage notes is not that bad in my opinion. We should not stop adding valuable content just because we think that some of the headers are not precise. --Panda10 23:02, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
 * That's true. We will use the Usage notes as there is no better choice. Qorilla 23:41, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Examples
We need consistent use of example sentences and example words. There are more versions used currently. My suggestions:

Using words

 * A macska egeret fogott. - The cat caught a mouse.

 * Hungarian sentence in italic, with the word bolded (with the suffixes if any)
 * English sentence in non-italic, with the corresponding word bolded (with suffixes if any)
 * Words not linked unless there is a special reason.
 * The separator could be a normal - hyphen, or a longer —.

Using suffixes
Could we use here? Then:
 * lép: → lépés:

 * The → can just be - but the → better expresses derivation.
 * The suffix may be bolded:
 * lép: → lépés:

-Qorilla 15:14, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Both sound good. --Panda10 15:18, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Categorization with hu-verb
Should we continue the current categorization using ? The categories are not suffix categories, but words ending in xxx categories, useful for similar conjugation. User:PalkiaX50 made a change in the hu-verb template which emptied Category:Hungarian verbs ending in -ít. Now all the verbs that were there are in the non-existing Category:Hungarian words suffixed with -ít. --Panda10 22:30, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If the categorization is to be used, the category should be named "ending in..." not "suffixed with...". A suffix on Wiktionary is a POS category for an item used to form a new word from ddition to an existing word, and not an inflectional ending. --EncycloPetey 14:57, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Sometimes the base word is still used, sometimes it has been lost through the ages to leave us only with the suffixed forms. But they are still suffixes. Also, there is no substantial difference in Hungarian between endings and suffixes. I also don't like saying "words ending in -xxx" as that might include words that just randomly happen to end in those letters having nothing to do with the suffix itself. Qorilla 15:10, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Verb prefix template
I made a template which can be used to generate the derived verb-prefixed forms in the Derived terms section. The template is long but uses no nested ifs. If you like it, I'll begin to add it to entries. Qorilla 15:15, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I like it. My only comment is that we will have to enter the prefixes every time, but maybe there is no other way to do this. The Hungarian wiki uses, it's a copy of theirs. I assume you saw it? --Panda10 22:35, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * That is not the standard way terms are listed in the English WT. With the Hungarian style it is a one-liner separated by pipe-characters, but the normal lists use bulletted terms in columns.
 * We have to specify all prefixes, how else would you specify which prefixes are appropriate and which are not if you don't specify it? The difference is that with the Hungarian style you have to write ...|be=y|meg=y|..., but then it's too much for no purpose. That's why I made it so that we can simply write ...|be|meg|... So the main differences are the appearance and the choice of unnamed parameters as opposed to fixed prefix list (named parameters), from which we choose by writing =y. Qorilla 23:01, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. --Panda10 00:35, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Okkay, I'll start using it. Thanks for your comments by the way! Qorilla 13:34, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Conjugation templates
Now after a year I think I have some time to revisit the conjugation templates that I made last year. The basic system would be:

We should have many separate templates so we don't overload the servers with many if - else stuff. The templates should be named so that it's easy to know which is which, and when to use which: the names should not use linguistic expressions like 'rounded' etc. rather practical names, see below. There are certain forms which help classify the verb into categories, and can say many things about the verb, not just the directly mentioned form (for example knowing the past suffix is -ett as opposed to -t, we can know some other forms too, not just the past).

What I'm presenting here (templates, flags, options), is already written in .txt files on my computer, it just needs some effort to fine-tune it.

The verbs are given to the template so that the last letter (Hungarian letter, so dz is counted as one) is separated, which is not used in all templates, but in many it is, so to be coherent let's separate the last letter, like né|z

The first level is the separation according to vowel backness, which appears universally in first person singular (nézek/ütök/állok). So the first part of the template should be hu-conj-ek for néz.

The next level is how the past is formed (-t or -.tt). For néz it is -ett, for kér it is -t. Thus kér would use hu-conj-ek-t. For néz hu-conj-ek-ett. Kér's line of templates ends here, but there is a special case markable with a flag that the past participle uses -ett (like írt - írott in the -o- case, in -ett I can't find any now). For néz we must continue because there are more categories inside.

Next level is how the second person singular is formed: -sz (lépsz), -esz (rengesz), -el (nézel). In each case there is an option (flag) if the past definite conjugation uses -ette (vetsz - vetette, but kergetsz - kergette; zengesz - zengte but intesz - intette; nézel - nézte, but edzel, edzette)

So néz would be hu-conj-ek-ett-el|né|z.

There are some universal options/flags: intrans: intrasitive, so definite forms do not appear. nosubj: there is no subjunctive (felszólító) form (siklik). ik: the verb has -ik ending. For ik-verbs: ek-only: if the eszem form is not used, only the eszek. I can't find in my notes to which verbs this applies, but there are some which are not -em even though they are -ik verbs.

Okay, these were the rather regular verbs. Let's see the special ones. We have those changing the stem. There are basically two in each vowel backness category: those with -ottam (ugrottam) and those with -tam (sodortam). Those with -ottam are all -ik verbs if I'm not mistaken. There are two categories in -tam verbs according to the form sodrok - sodort vs. túlzok - túlzott. These are quite annoying situations as one might also say túlozok, so we need an option that I called 'variants', which whould list both separated by or.

Then we have those having -gyek in subjunctive (vigyek, legyek, ...) This is already online. -gyak is not needed as only igyak uses it, and it can be manually done.

Then we have those -szem verbs (fekszem, igyekszem). These need an option whether -ett is used in past or not: feküdt, but melegedett. We also need option vő-only which is for verbs that use the igyekvő form only, and not the igyekező (fekvő, but not feküdő), and the opposite flag: no-vő (no melegvő). This also implies having variants in other conjugations: igyekezek - igyekszem, but not feküdök.

Some verbs are so special that they need unique templates: hisz, jön, megy, van.

I think I've written about everything. It looks like quite a mess at first, as I didn't take the time to write a comprehensive guide to verbs now as that would fill even a book, I just wanted to show how I organized the verbs to minimize if-else decisions, but also keep a consistent usage, and protect the number of templates from combinatorial explosion.

Sorry again for not explaining all very accurately, but this is really a large topic. What do you think about this system? Qorilla 13:47, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

I started uploading them to my userspace, so I can show how they work: User:Qorilla/Conjugation templates Qorilla 20:56, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Qorilla, good to see you back. I looked at the examples and my biggest problem is to figure out which template to use. I wonder if there is a simpler way of naming the templates. How about picking a representative verb of that group and name the template hu-conj-, for example for the verbs ending in -szt the template would be hu-conj-fejleszt? Can we think about this a little more? It will be very hard to change the system after it's all done. Thanks for your work, looking forward to the templates. --Panda10 22:14, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Hi, I made a lot of thought about it. The problem with your suggestion is that each of these templates covers many types of verbs even with such a big number of templates. That's why I also added options/flags for smaller differences. There is no way to select one verb for each template because the categories of verbs has many levels (a tree-like category system), and verbs have features which can be "on/off" in many combinations.
 * I'll make a guide about how to select the template, as it may be not obvious at first sight but I think the easiest way to recogize it, is writing the discriminating features (the representative suffixes) explicitly in the name of the template. These are easily checked by speakers of Hungarian.

 * All the front vowel templates are now on my experimental page, I can't think of a verb that would not fit in one of those. But there are some (quite rare) combinations that simply don't have (at least I haven't found) a representative among front vowel verbs, only among the analogous back vowel ones. Qorilla 23:29, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe you put a lot of thought into it. I would be interested to see the selection guide. Just one more idea: Have you thought about naming each cell and using the names as parameters only if there is an exception in that particular cell to the otherwise standard conjugation? --Panda10 23:42, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

 * I'm writing the guide at the moment. What do you mean by standard conjugation? Is intesz, érsz or nézel the standard one? I think there is no easy and elegant way to categorize Hungarian verbs as they are not real categories (no speaker would say ér is a separate category to int although the latter uses a binding vowel in conjugation; but for example in Finnish there are good separable conjugating categories that even natives know of). In Hungarian these are rather just sound fitting/accomodating rules. Qorilla 23:54, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Now the guide is there. If it looks complicated at first sight: Hungarian verb conjugations is in fact complicated, I guess that's why it has been left out here at Wiktionary (as opposed to the easier possessive and noun cases). Qorilla 00:58, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

The templates are now all on my userpage! I wrote a longer explanation with many examples. See: User:Qorilla/Conjugation templates. If you think it is acceptable, then I will start moving them to the entries. Qorilla 18:44, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I've found the following typos:

--Panda10 21:22, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) {hu-conj-ok-vowelout-tam} túlzot should be túlzott
 * 2) túlzot volna should be túlzott volna
 * 3) {hu-conj-ok-vowelout-tam} kanyargot should be kanyargott
 * 4) kanyargot volna should be kanyargott volna
 * 5) {hu-conj-ok-vowelout-ottam} siklaniük --> siklaniuk
 * 6) ugraniük --> ugraniuk
 * 7) {hu-conj-ok-vowelout-ottam} Future participle bomlandó, it's a valid form and it should be there
 * 8) bomlaniük --> bomlaniuk
 * 9) {hu-conj-ök-vowelout-öttem} Future participle ömlendő, it's a valid form, although sounding archaic
 * 10) ömlötték form is missing, it's valid and correct
 * 11) {hu-conj-szem} igyekezendő is a valid form, although archaic
 * 12) {hu-conj-szom} nyugodt should be nyugodott in past indefinite 3rd person sg. (belenyugodott, not belenyugodt)
 * 13) nyugodt volna --> nyugodott volna
 * 14) alapulandó would be valid but archaic
 * 15) Hogy helyes: viendő vagy vivendő?
 * 16) Adverbial participle is víve
 * 17) ríjük --> ríjuk
 * 18) fővő or fövő?
 * 19) fővendő or főendő or fövendő?
 * 20) fővök --> fövök
 * 21) fővünk --> fövünk
 * 22) fővöm --> fövöm
 * 23) fővöd --> fövöd
 * 24) fővi --> fövi
 * 25) fővitek --> fövitek
 * 26) fővik --> fövik
 * 27) nyűni similar spelling problems as above

 * Thank you. Sorry for the typos, they remained when I "converted" the front vowel templates to back vowel and I missed some vowels that should have been changed.

 * bomlandó is valid, you are right.
 * What does ömlötték mean? ömlik is an itransitive verb with a quite passive meaning.
 * Have you search for it in Google? There are only a few hits. My example: A folyók körülömlötték a földet. Not used very often.
 * In what way can igyekezendő be used?
 * Please google it. A few archaic example will be returned.
 * nyugodott: You are right, and this is a strange verb. For example with áll, the case is exactly reversed. The participle is állott and the past is állt, here the participle is nyugodt, the past is nyugodott. I think this is a word-specific thing, or else we need to think of other verbs that work similar. If it's unique then we may need to create its own template. But I have to mention that megnyugodt is also used, and if I say it many times (as an analogy to aludt), I can convince myself totally that it is the normal way. Although I "know" nyugodott is the more used variant (and I use it normally too). See for example (found with google): "Amire a falunépe megnyugodt, hogy már fél órája csak a békák énekelgetnek a patakparton".
 * I still say nyugodott is the correct usage. "Amire a falunépe megnyugodt" can be either a typo or a dialectal usage.
 * viendő: usually the verbs which form their past with -tt as opposed to -vett, don't use -v- in the -endő form: tesz - tett- teendő, lesz - lett - leendő, vesz - vett - veendő. I think only eszik - evett - (meg)evendő, iszik - ivott - (meg)ivandó (although my grandmother says ett and itt instead). Your linked page brings hívanó as an example, but it is of course a totally different case as hívandó is formed from hív, which is not in the tesz, vesz, visz, hisz, lesz, eszik, iszik group. He may confuse it with hisz, for which I say hiendő: For example because hiedelem also has no -v-, although it could have it, like jövendő - jövedelem. Google fight: átviendő: 2600, átvivendő: 522. This is a strange situation where the speakers also feel they are unsure and use this or that by gut feelings as these are rare verb forms. We could perhaps give both forms in the table (although for one, I never say vivendő).
 * OK.
 * vive: I think only e gets é. It can be observed with other suffixes, like: tesz - tétel, vesz - vétel, eszik - étel; but iszik - ital (not ítal), visz - vitel (not vítel) and tesz - tét, lesz - lét, but hisz - hit (not hít). I checked google and both are in use actually, and víve is even more frequently written (átvive 1350 - átvíve 4770 - better to check with an accented verb prefix, so foreign words don't get counted).
 * Have you used this link before: - although I've seen mistakes in their forms before, I thought this might be something we should take into consideration.
 * I think fő, nyű, rí don't shorten their vowel. "Olyan meleg volt, azt hittem megfővök". "fognyűvő manó". In google the long megfővök has more hits than megfövök, although that doesn't really prove much as both have just a couple of hundred. Maybe both alternatives should be given? Qorilla 22:06, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
 * These short verbs may need their own specific template instead of a generic one.
 * Please see my comments after yours. I think you can go ahead and implement them. Thanks. --Panda10 22:33, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Making it simpler
I'm not really satisfied with the system I made, and Panda10 also wrote it's not easy enough to choose the template. But until now I saw no possibility to make things simpler because of the primitive template syntax. However, now I came across the Portuguese conjugation template, which uses a clever solution. More "layers" in the logic. That's an idea that enabled me to unify into one hu-conj-ok template the following ones of my previous system:
 * hu-conj-ok-t
 * hu-conj-ok-ott-sz
 * hu-conj-ok-ott-asz
 * hu-conj-ok-ott-ol
 * hu-conj-ok-vowelout-tam
 * hu-conj-ok-vowelout-ottam

There is a base template which gives the table itself, a middle template that gives the forms, and the outside template which inspects the word and helps the middle template.

Look at User:Qorilla/Easier conjugation templates for examples. I wrote some short explanations there. Qorilla 00:09, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

Now the -ek and -ök versions are also done. Qorilla 16:23, 19 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the long delay. Will it be huge amount of work to implement this? I know you added the previous templates to a large number of verbs. --Panda10 00:44, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Hi again. Now I put up the templates on the User:Qorilla/Easier conjugation templates page. They work. I have overwritten the hu-conj-ok template, so I replaced all occurences of the old hu-conj-ok. The others are not affected directly, they are independent templates, so they can be changed later. Please delete the hu-conj-ok-old, hu-conj-ek-old templates and the hu-conj-ok/doWork template which are not needed any more. Documenting these changes will take a bit longer. Qorilla 22:53, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Uncategorized hu entries
There have appeared at the list of uncategorized pages a large number of Hungarian entries, which seem to appear there by virtue of having lang=Hungarian in a template instead of lang=hu. I assume this is because of some reform in the internal operations of the templates. DCDuring TALK 12:20, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Can you give an example? Where is this list of uncategorized entries? Qorilla 15:22, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Special:UncategorizedPages. --Yair rand (talk) 15:23, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Verb Complements
I am a currently studying Hungarian, and have found Wiktionary an invaluable resource. I think there is an omission involving the Hungarian verb entries which may not be obvious to the native editor. Briefly it is that the linguistic complements aka vonzat are rarely listed. This is an area where Wiktionary can really outshine paper and other online dictionary.

 * 1) The verb entries do not show which verb complements vonzat they require. For example vár typically requires a direct object and should be presented as vár valamit/valakit.
 * 2) This information is not regular - i.e. it can only be outlined in a grammar and requires their full details within the lexicon.
 * 3) Without this information a non-native Hungarian learners will:
 * 4) be unable to make well formed sentences (using vár without an accusative  object). Also which conjuration should be used?
 * 5) find it even harder to select between the nounces of meaning created by the unintuitive verb prefixes.
 * 6) mix and match incorrect verb-noun-case combination. (which of beszáll, leszáll, kiszáll, felszáll, go with auto,taxi,vonat,villamos,lépcső and what is the appropriate case ending cluster (ba/-be;-ból/-ből; -ra/-re etc.)

look at száll and beszáll for some free form Verb Complements and consider the following recommendation.

Prescriptions
Here are different level of activity to verb complement omissions.
 * 1) The Hungarian verb citation template  should to be augmented to provide a complement summary and existing verb migrated alternatively complement summary needs to be added  so as to indicate their available complements. I.E. vár valamit.
 * 2) The complement summary template should take parameters to indicate
 * 3) Mandatory complement
 * 4) Optional complement should be indicated by  - give something (to someone)
 * 5) Multiple complements options when available they should be indicated separated by a comma. Though a / can also be used to indicate a variation in one of the comlement options.
 * 6) In the template documentation different examples are given
 * 7) In case ending which of the complement should take. Note currently    (  or  ), are in use which is confusing since it places the itself into the case ending category instead of the complement.
 * 8) Special emphasis should be on verbs where Hungarian 'deviates from English usage'. (This will benefit both Hungarian ESL students and foreign HSL students)
 * 9) For some verbs complements are further complicated by being related to 'specific noun'. These restrictions are best explained in the usage notes section.
 * 10) if and when example sentences are provided they should aim to illustrate correct complement use

OrenBochman 09:05, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

 * Please take a look at tartozik. It has several different complements and each has an example. You said using hu-case is confusing. I'm not sure why it is more confusing than using the Hungarian words valamihez, valakihez, valamibe, valakinek, valamivel, valamire instead of just the endings without "valami". Yes, verbs are still not a very developed area, but there is only two or three Hungarian editors and so much material. --Panda10 12:23, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

 * I have examined the current system and prepared a rudimentary template to go along with it. If it is acceptable, ( etc templates can and should be adjusted so that the categories and subcategories align. I have used rohan as a test case. Regarding the shortcoming/advantages of the current/new system.

 * 1) Currently in 98% of the verbs there are no complements indicated (since there are no examples).
 * 2) The categories provided by the current template are confusing because they are misleading - they place verbs into a category of words which take some case ending. However the verbs and adverbs are cannot take these while nouns adjectives and pronouns can. My recommendation is to change the name of the categories to indicate that it is the complement or not to use a category for this at all (The template:hu-case can be quickly migrated to a more accurate nomenclature. The groups require more work/thinking, but see the third item in the next point.
 * 3) Regarding the question about the merit of valamire is over just the ending. There are three advantages to using the long form though they come into play for annotating verb and not the example sentence.
 * 4) It allows an editor to indicate that a verb requires an object as a complement - valami, an accusative object valamit, that the object is person, valakit or someplace valahol.
 * 5) The currently implemented options are in the Template:hu-verb-comp. I have tried to make things clearer by indicating in English what these Hungarian complements mean in English.
 * 6) This format allows one to provide semantic parent categories to the morphological ones that are currently in use which will be much more meaningful. i.e. vhova as a parent for -ba/-be, -ra/-re etc...
 * 7) regarding the question raised on my talk page, (how will the user know which case ending to use if we only tell him the rohan takes a vhova complement.
 * 8) if it is the same as English he already knows
 * 9) if it is different but regular, he should have to seek the answers in a Hungarian grammar or an appendix.
 * 10) if it is irregular or confusing then further lexical information is needed as stated in the original proposal above.
 * 11) in view of these points the new template should enable editors to provide users all the information they require 90% of the time. OrenBochman 10:54, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

 * Hi Oren, thank you for the detailed explanations. I think we both have the same goal, to make Wiktionary useful to Hungarian learners. I am looking forward to seeing your changes implemented. It might be good to work out the details on a separate test page using the verb tartozik since it has multiple complements illustrated with examples sentences. I looked at your test at rohan and here are my thoughts:
 * The hu-verb-comp template should be placed on the definition lines, not on the inflection line where hu-verb is. The English Wiktionary has some standards that each participating language has to follow. This dictionary keeps the inflection line for verb forms (the most important ones). The hu-verb template does not have this functionality today, but eventually, it will.
 * The Hungarian words vhova, vmi, vki, etc. should be placed after their English pair (to somewhere, something, someone) and not before them. For example, the first definition of tartozik would be: belongs to someone or something (valakihez / valamihez)
 * The category name Category:Hungarian terms taking -hoz/-hez/-höz can be changed to Category:Hungarian verbs taking complement vhez where vhez means valakihez or valamihez. But this can wait since you are building the parent system above this.
 * For the new category names you are proposing, I would use Category:Hungarian verbs with complement vhova. The Hungarian part of the category name would be at the end to facilitate better sorting.
 * --Panda10 13:03, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

I think this should only be used if it is a grammar question, not a semantic one. "Rohan" for example takes vhova because of its semantics, not because of Hungarian grammar. Tartozik on the other hand uses it grammatically (though such a distinction is not always clear). It should be in the definition line, as different senses may take different complements. I think we can leave simlpy the suffixes. Distinguishing between valaki and valami is not a good idea, because almost always both can be used. But the current system is a bit verbose too, as it lists all forms of the suffixes. Maybe the "vhez" form could solve this but it is not a conventional notation so it would not be understandable for the readers. I can not think of a much better version than the current. Qorilla 17:26, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

Discussion notification
Input from Hungarian editors welcome here: Beer_parlour/2015/February. --Tropylium (talk) 09:45, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

title: Wiktionary talk:About Hungarian


text:
inclusionary

Adjective

 * 1) Marked by inclusiveness

title: inclusionary


text: melancholias

title: melancholias


text:
User:Juusomoro

See q:fi:Käyttäjä:Juusomoro

title: User:Juusomoro