text:
Talk:Canonbury

Tudor or Stuart?
The article currently has: "Originally a fresh water supply in Tudor times (c.1613)." Shouldn't this be "Stuart", not "Tudor"? The Wikipedia article on the Tudors suggests that the Tudor period ended 1603. But my edit (Tudor--->Stuart) was reversed, making me suspect that the situation is more complex than I thought... 80.176.158.37 20:21, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I based the revert on this article. If that is incorrect, feel free to change it to Stuart. IrishGuy 21:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I've edited the section to remove Tudor and/or Stuart and instead to have a link to the Wikipedia article on the New River as this discusses the history of the creation of the New River in more detail. In summary, Colhurst first proposed the aqueduct in 1602 (Tudor period) but the water did not start to flow until 1613 (Stuart period) - so I don't think the phrase "fresh water supply in Tudor times" is the best description of what happened.80.176.158.37 08:59, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Merge
Canonbury and East Canonbury appear to cover much of the same area, without the later being well defined. Since neither contain much substantive content, and don't have too many links, I'd suggest they be merged into one. Kbthompson 18:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Agree with the merge, but a massive clean up will be needed. --Regan123 19:39, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Done deal, work completed, some refs added - could do with a lot more! Kbthompson 10:56, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Canonbury. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060105070937/http://www.canonbury.ac.uk/?tower to http://www.canonbury.ac.uk/?tower

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 08:20, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Canonbury


text:
Talk:Catford

Bus
Is the list of bus routes really justified? I don't like removing information, but it risks getting out of date.

--Omassey 13:48, 2004 Jul 9 (UTC)

Name
The name Catford did not derive from 'wild cats' how ridiculous. It came because there used to be a 'cat'tle ford here!! Who researched this?

Echo Carnell
Echo Carnell doesn't pass the Google test (8 hits, mostly local news stories about a schoolchild). I removed the reference -- if anyone can substantiate it then by all means do put it back. --Ornette 09:18 2006 Aug 10 (UTC)

Karl Marx as patron of the Black Horse & Harrow
A recent addition states that Marx was a patron of the pub and the phrasing suggests that this was after its rebuilding in 1897. Marx died in 1883 so this could not have been the case. Is there evidence that he visited the pub regularly before his death? DavidCane 23:05, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Catford as South End of London
A recent addition states:
 * "Catford was infact the traditionally South End of London (similar to the West End or East End) however, this archaic name eroded with time and people simply refer to the place as Catford (though in some A-Z maps Catford is referred to as the South End of London)."

This statement is erroneous and appears to be based on the location of area known ss South End near Bellingham. South End was, in fact, the name of a small village adjacent to the River Ravensbourne and is more probably so named due to its location at the southern edge of the parish of Lewisham rather than any through any refernce to London. A simiar note has been added to the Hampstead tube station article regarding the North End of London due to nearby area of North End. Again the name does not relate to its relation to the city but, in this case to its location at the North End of Hampstead Heath. I have deleted the sentence. DavidCane 23:05, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Old soccer team was called Catford South End, use to ground share with Charlton Athletic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.43.217.70 (talk) 03:37, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Removed pointless AOL links
I have removed a large number of apparently pointless AOL search links. Clicking them simply took me to AOL's search page with no relevant content. Curiously, these have been in there for at least three months. If I've done wrong, revert and let me know.--A bit iffy 09:46, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Catford cat under threat
Unsure about relaibility - but looking at it online right now, but apparently the 'cat' s under threat - Lewisham council - will find more, but if found, would it be relevant to put links for protest as current situation in Catford - so long as no bias etc attributed to it...??? Crescent (talk) 17:40, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Taking the mick?
I laughed, but is the quote about Eros house actually real (reference doesn't match up). Other parts of it are a bit suspect too... I think someone is taking the mick! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.114.59 (talk) 20:13, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I've (finally!) updated the reference to match the quote - by searching on Google Books. I'm not convinced it needs to be quoted in full. Though I do quite like Eros_House. Scottkeir (talk)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Catford. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100602000714/http://www.london.gov.uk/thelondonplan/docs/londonplan08.pdf to http://www.london.gov.uk/thelondonplan/docs/londonplan08.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 06:19, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Catford. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150316162300/http://www.london24.com/news/huge_fire_destroys_catford_bridge_tavern_1_3975067 to http://www.london24.com/news/huge_fire_destroys_catford_bridge_tavern_1_3975067
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140324032650/http://www.catfordsociety.com/ to http://www.catfordsociety.com/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060221142415/http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/lewisham/main/catford.htm to http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/lewisham/main/catford.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060221205742/http://www.derelictlondon.com/pictures_of_london_s_decaying_beauty.htm to http://www.derelictlondon.com/pictures_of_london_s_decaying_beauty.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060426235642/http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/lewisham/catford/hippodrome.htm to http://www.ideal-homes.org.uk/lewisham/catford/hippodrome.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 04:45, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Catford


text:
Talk:Chalk Farm

The local school was pronounced "lame" by Ofsted? Any reference for that, or is this just juvenile vandalism?

"Cold cottages" sounds fake to me. Attestation/sourcing, anyone? --Dupes (talk) 13:58, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Disputed Etymology
I've added a section on the different ideas. In my view the "Old and New London" source is less scholarly than the others. The issue could probably be resolved by tracing changes of ownership and other research and the bibliography within the references provides a start point.

Famous Death
Banbury shot Sir Charles Williams there during the Regency. There was a notorious murder there much later. Either of these could be behind the Cockney rhyming slang ‘Chalk Farm=arm’. Some research here could improve the article. 77.69.34.203 (talk) 17:30, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Where is Chalk Farm?
The article as it stands says "The area is not formally defined" and then goes on to say "an area that extends to Ainger Road and takes in part of the Primrose Hill open space". That's the problem because the area to the west of the railway is all Primrose Hill and has been considered a long time. However my understanding is that Chalk Farm (as in the lower Chalcot/Caldecote farm) was on Regent's Park Road in the middle of the main Primrose Hill shops. So historically this description might be reasonable but not really now. It is probably more accurate to see the area as equivalent to the new (as of 2022) Haverstock Ward which includes St Saviour's Church (that describes itself as in Chalk Farm) and the station, but paradoxically Chalk Farm Road forms part of the border so it does not include The Roandhouse. Also does not include "Chalk Farm Morrisons" as was and is - the old larger version where the buses once pulled into has been knocked down and is being converted into flats. Not sure either how far east of Haverstock Hill (originally Hampstead Road) the Chalcot estate originally went - but I don't think the modern idea of "Chalk Farm" bears much resemblance to the original boundaries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.32.181.108 (talk) 11:47, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Chalk Farm


text:
London Borough of Waltham Forest

The London Borough of Waltham Forest is an outer  London borough formed in 1965 from the merger of the municipal boroughs of Leyton, Walthamstow and Chingford.

The borough's administrative headquarters are at Waltham Forest Town Hall, which before the merger of the boroughs, was called Walthamstow Town Hall. The population was 278,428 at the 2021 census. Waltham Forest borders five other London boroughs: Enfield to the north-west, Haringey to the west, Hackney to the south-west, Newham to the south-east and Redbridge to the east, as well as the non-metropolitan county of Essex to the north.

The borough takes its name from the former Waltham Forest – an institution which managed deer in south-west Essex. Epping Forest is a remainder of the former Waltham Forest and forms the eastern and northern fringe of the borough. The River Lea lies to the west where its associated marshes and parkland form a green corridor which, along the reservoir-lined reaches, separates north and east London, and is the historic border between Middlesex and Essex.

Waltham Forest was one of the host boroughs of the London Olympics in 2012, with the Lee Valley Hockey and Tennis Centre and part of the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park providing an ongoing legacy in the UK and London.

Toponymy
The borough took its name from the former Waltham Forest, an institution that managed deer in an area of south-west Essex that stretched eastwards from the River Lea and included large areas of agricultural land as well as the wooded areas subsequently known as Epping Forest and Hainault Forest. The name Waltham Forest was used in parallel with local woodland names, some of which have persisted.

The first known use of the name Waltham Forest is 1205 (in Medieval Latin) as foresta nostra prope Waltham, and the use of the name persisted, until the end of the seventeenth century.

Early history
The area was in the territory of the Trinovantes tribe during the Iron Age and through the Roman period, when the tribal area was a unit of local government. It subsequently became part of the Kingdom of the East Saxons a unit which is likely to have its roots in the territory of the Trinovantes. After the Kingdom of Essex lost its independence, it evolved into the county of Essex.

The Domesday book of 1086 records four manors in the area, Chingford, Walthamstow, Higham and Leyton. At some point, before or after the Domesday survey these also became parishes, with Higham becoming part of the parish of Walthamstow. These parishes had largely stable borders from which those of the later Municipal Boroughs were derived, and these are the basis of our understanding of the extent of these local areas today.

Preservation of Epping Forest
The southern part of Epping Forest still extends into the north of the borough, 90% of it having been preserved by the Epping Forest Act of 1878. This not only assisted in preserving the forest, the attraction value also helped stimulate urbanisation of nearby areas.

Urbanisation
Until the late Victorian era, the area that became the modern borough was rural in nature with a small dispersed population and a primarily agricultural landscape. Leyton, in particular, grew quite rapidly between 1870 and 1910.

Industrial firsts
In 1892, a private citizen named Frederick Bremer built the first British motorcar in a workshop in his garden, at Connaught Road, Walthamstow. The vehicle is on display at the Vestry House Museum in Walthamstow. In 1909, the aviation pioneer A V Roe successfully tested the first all-British aeroplane, the Roe I Triplane, on land at Walthamstow Marshes.

Air Raids in World War One
The area now known as Waltham Forest experienced at least two Zeppelin raids during World War I. On 17/18 August 1915, Airship L10 took a route roughly following the Gospel Oak to Barking railway line, dropping incendiary and high-explosive bombs. The first bomb, an incendiary, fell on Hoe St, Walthamstow, at the junction of Orford and Queens Road; the last was dropped in Aldersbrook area. Ten people were killed in Leyton and another 48 injured across the wider area. On 23/24 September 1916 the German Navy airship L 31 dropped around ten bombs along the line of Lea Bridge Road, Leyton, killing eight there. On both occasions the Germans believed they were bombing the City, and it is thought they mistook the Lee Valley Reservoir Chain for the Thames.

Blitz - World War Two
During the most intense period of the Blitz (October 1940 to June 1941), the area was hit by around 728 high explosive bombs, 17 parachute mines and an unknown, but much greater number of small incendiary bombs. Subsequent raids were lighter and less frequent, but 1944 saw a number of V-1 'flying bombs' and V-2 long-range ballistic missiles hit the area, including a V-1 which landed on central Walthamstow killing 22 and a V-2 which landed on Chingford Road, Walthamstow killing 8.

Creation of the modern borough
The London Borough of Waltham Forest was created in 1965 under the London Government Act 1963, covering the combined area of the former municipal boroughs of Chingford, Leyton and Walthamstow. The area was transferred from Essex to Greater London to become one of the 32 London Boroughs.

A petition opposed calling the new borough "Walthamstow", so perhaps for that reason the new borough took its name from the former Waltham Forest.

Governance
The local authority is Waltham Forest Council, based at Waltham Forest Town Hall (formerly Walthamstow Town Hall).

Greater London representation
Since 2000, for elections to the London Assembly, the borough forms part of the North East constituency.

Settlement
The main centres of population in the borough are Chingford in the north, Walthamstow in the centre (the administrative hub including the council offices) and Leyton and Leytonstone to the South. Waltham Forest has the fifth largest Muslim population in England and the third largest in London (coming after its neighbouring boroughs, Newham and Tower Hamlets).

Open spaces
Epping Forest and the green corridor along the River Lea provide some of the borough's many open spaces, which include:
 * Epping Forest (part)
 * Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park (part)
 * Lee Valley Reservoir Chain (part)
 * Walthamstow Marshes
 * The Walthamstow Wetlands Reserve, opened in 2017, provides 211 ha of open space.
 * Leyton Jubilee Park
 * Lloyd Park
 * Ridgeway Park
 * Chingford Mount Cemetery
 * Mansfield Park
 * Highams Park Field

Arts, culture and leisure
Historically known as the seat of the Arts and Crafts Movement under the stewardship of William Morris, Waltham Forest has continued to succour many contemporary artists & art groups. These include the North East London Independent Artists (NELIA) group, based at the Changing Room Gallery in Lloyd Park, the 491 Gallery in Leytonstone, and a number of independent artists, also mainly in the Leytonstone area. The biennial E17 Art Trail, which includes open studios, exhibitions and events, is the biggest art event in the borough, and there is now a similar event in Leytonstone. Eamon Everall, founder member of the Stuckism art movement is a long-time resident in the borough where he also maintains a studio.

Waltham Forest was the first ever London Borough of Culture in 2019.

Waltham Forest is home to a number of musicians that have found success in the UK, including East 17, Blazin' Squad, and Indie band Hefner, who formed in Walthamstow. The borough is also a centre of the grime musical genre; grime acts hailing from the borough include More Fire Crew, Lethal Bizzle, and Jammer amongst others.

The borough had a key role in the history of rave music culture, whether it be clubs, artists, and DJs. Widely regarded as one of the seminal tracks of jungle music, the creator of "We Are I.E." Lennie de Ice grew up and lived in Walthamstow. Walthamstow was also home to DJ Rap and MC Navigator. The venue Dungeons was located on the Lea Bridge Road in Leyton, and a number of pirate radio stations including Friends FM, Dance FM, and Eruption FM broadcast from tower blocks such as the Cathall Estate in Leytonstone.

The only theatre in the borough, The Waltham Forest Theatre, was situated in Lloyd Park. Though a local campaign was launched to save it in 2008 the theatre was demolished in 2011.

Leyton Orient F.C. is the local professional football team, based at Brisbane Road, Leyton. In the 1962–63 season the club played in the top tier of English football, the Football League First Division, but currently are in League One, the third tier of the English football league system.

Housing
Waltham Forest was one of six local authorities to set up a Housing Action Trust under the Housing Act 1988. The Waltham Forest HAT covered various estates in need of regeneration: Cathall Road in Leytonstone, Oliver Close in Leyton, Boundary Road in Walthamstow and Chingford Hall in Chingford. The HAT transferred its redeveloped estates to Community-based Housing Association and shut down in April 2002. English Partnerships then demolished four empty tower blocks.

The remaining Council housing in the borough is now managed by an arms-length management organisation, Waltham Forest Housing (formerly Ascham Homes).

Olympics
Waltham Forest was one of four host boroughs in east London for the 2012 Olympics. The northern part of the Queen Elizabeth Olympic Park is located in Eton Manor. The borough hosted events in its three Olympic-size swimming pools, one synchronised swimming pool and one water polo pool. These pools were used for athlete training.

During the Paralympic Games, Eton Manor hosted the Wheelchair Tennis events, with temporary seating for 10,500 spectators.

In April 2012, the Ministry of Defence identified the roof of Fred Wigg Tower as a potential location for surface-to-air missile defences during the Games.

Education
Waltham Forest has a number of institutes, including 3 colleges of further education. Leyton Sixth Form College was the second sixth form college in Southern England to get a licence, and was awarded the title of best college in London for sport in 2013. Others include Waltham Forest College and Sir George Monoux College. Waltham Forest has a sixth form college reorganised system which it adopted in 1985.

Neighbouring authorities
Neighbouring authorities are Epping Forest (Essex) in the north, Redbridge in the east, with Newham and Hackney to the south. Haringey and Enfield lie to the west.

Districts

 * Bakers Arms
 * Cann Hall
 * Chingford
 * Chingford Hatch
 * Friday Hill
 * Hale End
 * Highams Park
 * Leyton
 * Leytonstone
 * Upper Walthamstow
 * Walthamstow
 * Whipps Cross

Wards

 * Cann Hall
 * Cathall
 * Chapel End
 * Chingford Green
 * Endlebury
 * Forest
 * Grove Green
 * Hale End and Highams Park South
 * Hatch Lane and Highams Park North
 * High Street
 * Higham Hill
 * Hoe Street
 * Larkswood
 * Lea Bridge
 * Leyton
 * Leytonstone
 * Markhouse
 * St James
 * Upper Walthamstow
 * Valley
 * William Morris
 * Wood Street

Transport
The Central line of the London Underground serves the south of the borough, running alongside the A12 road with stations at Leyton and Leytonstone. The Victoria line runs roughly through the middle of the borough with stations at Walthamstow Central and Blackhorse Road. The Gospel Oak to Barking line of London Overground has stations at Walthamstow Queen's Road, Blackhorse Road, Leyton Midland Road and Leytonstone High Road. London Overground also runs services on the Lea Valley lines from Liverpool Street station in the City of London and serves stations at St James Street, Walthamstow Central, Wood Street, Highams Park and Chingford. Greater Anglia serves the south-west of the borough with a station at Lea Bridge. A number of London Buses routes serve the borough, as well as six night bus routes. The Central line and the Victoria line are both part of the Night Tube, which provides overnight tube services on Friday and Saturday nights. The pioneering Mini Holland programme has begun to provide protected cycle lanes across the southern half of the borough, increasing the ability to use bicycles as a transport option.

In March 2011, the main forms of transport that residents used to travel to work were: underground, metro, light rail, tram, 21.0% of all residents aged 16–74; driving a car or van, 7.0%; bus, minibus or coach, 7.0%; train, 6.5%; on foot, 4.3%; work mainly at or from home, 2.1%; bicycle, 1.8%.

Law enforcement
Policing is covered by the Metropolitan Police. There is one police station which is based in Chingford and a number of additional patrol centres throughout the borough. Waltham Forest comes under the Met's North-East Basic Command Unit (BCU) following a merger of Waltham Forest's and Newham's policing in 2018

Notable residents

Waltham Forest is the birthplace of William Morris, best known as one of the principal founders of the British Arts and Crafts Movement. Morris was a designer of wallpaper and patterned fabrics, a writer of poetry and fiction, and a pioneer of the socialist movement in Britain.

Other notable people, such as footballer and former England Captain David Beckham, rapper, songwriter and actor Redzz, I, Claudius star Derek Jacobi, former Essex and England cricket Captain Graham Gooch, and the film director and producer Alfred Hitchcock, were also born in the borough. The heavy metal band Iron Maiden was formed in Leyton, and Eastenders actress Rita Simons was born in Leytonstone. Notable Eastenders Actor Adam Woodyatt is from Walthamstow. The poet Pascale Petit, shortlisted three times for the TS Eliot poetry prize, lives in Walthamstow. Notable rap/grime artist Lethal Bizzle is from Walthamstow, and Grayson Perry, the 2003 Turner Prize-winning artist, has his studio in Walthamstow. X Factor finalist Fleur East is also from Walthamstow as well as British Taekwondo Athlete Lutalo Muhammad.

Sports teams

 * Leyton Orient Football Club
 * Walthamstow F.C.
 * West Essex F.C.
 * Leyton Football Club
 * Lee Valley Lions

Twinned cities
The London Borough of Waltham Forest is twinned with

 * 🇫🇷 Saint-Mandé, France,
 * 🇩🇪 Wandsbek, Germany,
 * 🇦🇬 Antigua and Barbuda, and
 * 🇩🇲 Dominica.

Friendship links have also been established with

 * 🇵🇰 Mirpur, Pakistan.

title: London Borough of Waltham Forest


text:
Talk:Charing Cross

Charing Cross Explained
'Charing Cross' denotes a road junction location like The Angel, Islington. Charing Cross Station was named after the junction location not vice-versa. This road junction is still marked on the map as 'Charing Cross', even though it is no longer a postal address. Colin4C (talk) 11:19, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * You are right, but the Angel is the name of a former Inn, and Charing Cross is the former cross in the village of Charing. By extension these names have become associated with road junctions after the original has passed into history. Kbthompson (talk) 11:34, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It's Victorian replacement is named 'Charing Cross' in EH's national register of monuments - see link to IoE under refs. It's about 50 m to the east of the original site - agreed? Kbthompson (talk) 18:05, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree that it is 50m east of the original, but EH or no EH, the Victorian replacement is definately not Charing Cross (see for example Pevsner's guide to the buildings of London)..Seems that, since I left their employ, EH cannot get the staff...evidentally employing graduates of Luton polytechnic to write their reports these days...the old school pipe smoking archaeologists may have been shameless layabouts, but at least they had a bit of general education on British history and culture. Colin4C (talk) 19:29, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * There are a number of reasons why I think you unnecessarily pedantic on this point. It may be a pastiche, but if enough people call it a dog ...
 * I was also thinking of the datum point thing. It's not authoritatively defined. First it was adopted as a significant landmark close to Scotland Yard where the beasts who administered the legal niceties were quartered. Second, the AA was founded 1902?, and their first offices were in Fleet Street; moving to Leicester Sq 3 years later. From 1909 they began publishing gazetteers and maps. They also put up many of the first roadsigns and distances. I think it's their adoption of it as a datum that led to the convention. Proving it - well that's another matter. Kbthompson (talk) 10:53, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
 * "even though it is no longer a postal address". Yes it is - see Royalmail.com. eg:
 * The Royal Bank of Scotland plc
 * 49 Charing Cross
 * LONDON
 * SW1A 2DX 82.46.163.160 (talk) 07:45, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Charing Cross Explained II
The opening sentence reads: "Charing Cross is located at the junction of the Strand, Whitehall and Cockspur Street in Central London, England." However, it doesn't say what Charing Cross actually is. Is it a road? Is it a station? Is it a cross? What is it? Nzseries1 (talk) 13:29, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

 * That's a somewhat philosophical question...It's not the station, which is at a different location and was named after the pre-existing Charing Cross...it's not the cross, which is no longer extant and has been replaced by a statue of Charles I on the same location...its not the road, which has been renamed...its not the village of Charing, which has long been submerged within the urban sprawl of London...Possibly best to think of it as the junction of the three roads mentioned above, but not as actually having any physical dimensions in real space...Colin4C (talk) 18:31, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

 * I figured it wouldn't be that easy - thanks for letting me know! Nzseries1 (talk) 15:45, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Just to add that as Charing Cross railway station is not the same entity as Charing Cross, is differently located, and has its own wikipedia article, I have reduced the info on it in this article. Colin4C (talk) 21:52, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Regarding the cross—the structure—it is mentioned that it was destroyed prior to 1675, but not how that happened. (Same thing in the Eleanor cross article.) I find it an important omission. Now, I don't have any specific sources in mind, but I believe the cross was pulled down by parliamentarians in the Civil War, viewed as a royal symbol, and that this was actually the fate of several of the crosses. The time-frame fits, as does the later replacement by a statue of none other than Charles I. Waltham, The Duke of 04:58, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * You say the road has been renamed, but the Royal Bank of Scotland and Tesco Express (art least) have 'Charing Cross' as the thoroughfare in their postal addresses. 82.46.163.160 (talk) 08:36, 19 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think you are right about that. Someone (a royalist I guess) wrote a satirical poem about the destruction of the cross by the roundheads. The cross was also the site of a gallows where some of the regicides were hung, drawn and quartered at the Resoration. I'll see if I can find some refs. Colin4C (talk) 19:07, 29 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It should also be noted that the Charles statue was moved for a road widening scheme; it's about 5 m from where it originally stood. I read somewhere, the base was reconstructed by Pugin. It's a photo opportunity for someone. Kbthompson (talk) 18:16, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * So we need a shot incorporating the Charles statue and a glamorous model and/or myself and Kb standing where the original was. Might be a book deal in this. "In Search of Charing Cross: Pretentious Psychogeographical Musings with a Message - with an introduction by Will Self" would be the obvious title. Cannot remember when the last book about Charing Cross came out, if indeed there ever was a book on the subject. Colin4C (talk) 19:41, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I saw a brilliantly facetious satire on the removal of the Cross; with lawyers wandering too and thro because they could not get their bearings. No, I think the introduction to our book should be by Iain Sinclair - I picture you standing in the middle of the road with a divining rod; amongst heavy traffic. I'll be by the plinth leering up at a pendulous model. Perhaps just a shot of the statue would suffice. We could also provide a map with tenuous leylines stretching across England from the monument - making interesting geometric and cabalistic symbols.
 * There is also a plan to move London Stone - do these people have no sense? Kbthompson (talk) 10:41, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

and finally in Brave New World even the name is taken away and it becomes Charing T....--Richardson mcphillips (talk) 15:02, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Charing Cross as postal address
I was told by my bank manager at (RBS) Drummonds, that their address of 49 Charing Cross (London SW1A 2DX) was uniquely on Charing Cross, not Charing Cross Road. The building is not next to Charing Cross station, it is on the south west side of Trafalgar Square, next to Admiralty Arch, and I suppose, therefore, between Whitehall and The Mall. The point is that at some point there must have been 1-48 Charing Cross, although it is difficult to see where they would have stood as presumably Whitehall has been an open thoroughfare since mediaeval times, but maybe the east end of it was called Charing Cross, and maybe it extended in the area now occupied by the south side of Trafalgar Square. This could be linked to the fact that the original Eleanor Cross site is now a good way 'down' Whitehall. Maybe some London historical expert could add to this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.155.193.120 (talk) 12:47, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

 * Perhaps sadly from your bank manager's POV, Royal Mail has also:
 * Tesco
 * 1-4 Charing Cross
 * LONDON
 * SW1A 2DR 82.46.163.160 (talk) 07:49, 19 October 2022 (UTC)

Distances don't add up
The article says: "The site of the cross has been occupied since 1675 by an equestrian statue of King Charles I", and later "1865, a replacement cross was commissioned from E. M. Barry by the South Eastern Railway as the centrepiece of the station forecourt; about 160 feet (49 m) east of the original site".

This implies that the monument outside the station is 49 m away from the statue of Charles I, but there is no way that can be true. It's more like a few hundred metres. I'm not sure which is wrong, the distance, or the assertion that the statue is on the original site. 86.151.118.165 (talk) 21:37, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

 * shows a plaque by the statue that reads "On the site now occupied by the statue of King Charles I was erected the original Queen Eleanor's cross a replica of which stands in front of Charing Cross station." One would think this plaque is correct, so maybe it's the distance that is wrong. OTOH, I've just noticed that 217.155.193.120 above says "the original Eleanor Cross site is now a good way 'down' Whitehall", which would make it even further away from the present one. Dunno. 86.176.211.219 (talk) 14:45, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

Now, the eleanor cross picture text says: "The Victorian replacement of the original Eleanor Cross 200 metres (200 yards) away" Google Maps gives 240 metres [from the equestrian statue]. And metre is not equal to yard: 200 metres equals to around 219 yards, and 240 metres would be around 262 yards... 86.115.109.159 (talk) 16:25, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Charing Cross


text:
Talk:Chingford

References to Normanhurst School
These seem to be advertising and therefore should be removed. Normanhurst School is not one of the 'landmarks' of Chingford since it looks like a set of redbrick Victorian houses on Station Road and is not something especially visible or used by locals to find their way.

Geographic location
The article states Chingford is in East London, in Essex. Which is it? It can't be in both, unless the border runs through the town like it does in Woodford Green. If so, please reflect this.

It is in East London; link has all the districts whch includes Waltham Forest. The Essex reference is 'historic' so moved further down the lede Jonnyspeed20 (talk) 15:29, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

 * Jonnyspeed20, the fact it is in East London does not contradict the fact it is in Essex. Even whilst Chingford, Leytonstone, Walthamstow, Leyton, etc, were in the administrative county of Essex, they were considered part of East London. This was before Greater London and the London Borough of Waltham Forest even existed. In 1965, Greater London, a new local government structure, was created (along with Waltham Forest). Some places within the area of Essex County Council (the administrative county of Essex, now the non-metropolitan county of Essex) were moved to the new council area known as Greater London, so merely from the control of one government body to another. The changes were to local government boundaries, not to the boundaries of the counties themselves, London or East London. What causes all this confusion is the conflation of Greater London and London, as well as the status of Greater London as a ceremonial "county". Different sets of "counties" have different names. Historic counties are an example. The fact they are called "historic" does not mean they are obsolete, do not exist or are not relevant to today. They are just not used for administration by local government bodies. Hope this helps. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 00:02, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

I think the point is "were" in Essex - simply none of these places are now in the county of Essex, as it is currently defined. There are loads of space in paragraph 2 for talking about the history. Having things like Walthamstow... is in the historical area of Essex in the first line is confusing, it is not in Essex. It's like we don't say Stratford is in the historic area of Ēastseaxe, the land of the Eastern Saxons. Like we don't say "Soho is in the ancient county of Middlesex" in the first line of the entry Jonnyspeed20 (talk) 10:44, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

 * Please read my response again. Essex is "currently defined" in multiple ways. As I have already said, the changes in 1965 were to administrative/council/local government boundaries. Not to counties. It isn't like mentioning that a place is "in the historic area of Ēastseaxe" in the first line. Ēastseaxe doesn't exist. Essex does, and the location of Chingford/Walthamstow/etc in the historic county of Essex continues to be relevant. A place's location in its historic county can be mentioned in the lead as per the WikiProject guidelines for UK Geography. By the way, when communicating with other users on talk pages, you might want to tag them by using mentioning them like this, Jonnyspeed20. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 15:04, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
 * None of these places are in Essex. There is no definition that makes these places currently in Essex. Historically, absolutely.  I do have a solution though... Start paragraph 2 with all your talk of historical counties Jonnyspeed20 (talk) 15:07, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
 * PlatinumClipper96 -- I have made the edits to clearly say these places are "is in the historic county of Essex" with specific extra clarification of the ancient parish. I hope this works for you? Jonnyspeed20 (talk) 15:20, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

 * Thanks, Jonnyspeed20. Although my personal preference would be that the county is mentioned alongside being part of "East London" in the first line, I'm happy as long as it is clear the area is within its respective historic county. Thanks for your recent edits that acknowledge and make clear the location of these places within the historic county of Essex. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 15:48, 18 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I am glad we have resolution. My further comments are mainly for procedure, should this issue be raised again and Resolution is required.  Thank you for being so amenable.  We obviously don't agree that Boroughs are more important than Norman boundaries, though we have a solution Jonnyspeed20 (talk) Jonnyspeed20 (talk) 20:05, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Why in the first line are we mentioning technical stuff like ceremonial counties. "Chingford is a suburban area of East London within the London Borough of Waltham Forest. Part of Essex until 1965, the area borders..." would be better. LondonEast4 (talk) 22:28, 31 July 2022 (UTC)

 * as you are aware, your edit is against the guidelines in WP:UKCOUNTIES You have asserted this edit 16 times now and been reverted by multiple editors. It is clear you do not have a consensus for this change. Here, as in Romford and elsewhere, I ask you to stop edit warring. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 20:01, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Sirfurboy, and how many times has LondonEast4 asserted their edit? My edits are in compliance with WP:BRD and WP:UKTOWNS. Edits where historic county information gets removed also get "reverted by multiple editors". The "multiple editors" you speak of on this page are blocked user Jonnyspeed20/associated sock IP and LondonEast4. I am not edit-warring; I am complying with WP:BRD. LondonEast4 is not. I am not the one edit-warring here.
 * Again, WP:UKCOUNTIES is guidelines for county articles. Chingford is not a county. WP:UKTOWNS guidance is the guidance here. I would disagree that there is no consensus for present-tense historic county wording. Articles with present-tense historic county wording are, more often than not, stable. Middlesex (within the realm of WP:UKCOUNTIES), for instance, starts with "Middlesex is a historic county", and has done for years. The infrequent edits attempting to change it to "was" get reverted. Whether the guidelines state the counties still exist or not, I would argue that present-tense wording is still appropriate. The historic counties are historic counties.
 * It doesn't seem you want to actually contribute to this discussion. You have barely addressed anything I have put forward. Instead you are reverting my edits across several articles, and making the same accusations across talk pages (rather than actually discussing the content), which I object to. This is on the verge of WP:HOUNDING. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 18:26, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * and how many times has LondonEast4 asserted their edit? - 6 times. You reverted his edits every time. And yet I see no discussion here from you, so I am not clear in what sense you tink you are complying with WP:BRD. Then again, that is just a guideline, like the guideline that says when talking about counties (which we are, when we say something was in a county) we use past tense. I see that when editors change Middlesex to use past tense as per the WP:UKCOUNTIES they do indeed get reverted. By you. . So you specifically reverted an edit on that page from a version compliant with guidelines to one that is not. If you think there is hounding, as I said to you at Talk:Romford, you will discuss that at ANI. This is not the place. If you think the guidelines are wrong, you will discuss that on the guidelines pages, preferably with an RFC. The only question we have here, and it is not me who is ignoring this question, is why should this page be edited with text that does not conform to the guidelines which specifcally say We do not take the minority view that the historic counties still exist with the former boundaries. Clearly there is no world in which such a statement could be true for articles about counties and not true for articles that are talking about counties. What is it about Chingford that makes it an exception? Exceptions exist, but at no point have you made any argument that Chingford is an exception. Instead, you have just re-asserted your same edit, without discussion, for the 17th time on this page alone. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 19:51, 21 November 2022 (UTC)
 * @Sirfurboy, per WP:BRD, it is down to the bold editor to start a discussion on their proposed edits: Discuss your bold edit with the person who reverted you. To follow BRD specifically, instead of one of the many alternatives, you must not restore your bold edit, make a different edit to this part of the page, or engage in back-and-forth reverting. Talk to that one person until the two of you have reached an agreement... If your bold edit was reverted, then do not re-revert to your version.  If your reversion was reverted, then do not re-revert to your version.  Instead, take it to the talk page (see below). If you re-revert, then you are no longer following BRD. LondonEast4 is the bold editor, and it is therefore up to them to initiate discussion. On "this page alone" there has also been sockpuppetry/editwarring from the likes of Jonnyspeed20 - the "17" times I have asserted this wording would include edits/reverts made when this account was active.
 * "I see that when editors change Middlesex to use past tense as per the WP:UKCOUNTIES they do indeed get reverted. By you." Why the snarkiness? On the Middlesex article, I only ever reverted TWO edits from ONE editor. Stable wording, for the article's 20-year existence, has been "is a historic county". On the rare occasion that this wording is changed to "was", a revert takes place. Look at the article's 20-year history.
 * Yes - the stable "is" wording on the Middlesex article goes against the guidelines about tense on WP:COUNTIES. "The only question we have here, and it is not me who is ignoring this question, is why should this page be edited with text that does not conform to the guidelines which specifcally say We do not take the minority view that the historic counties still exist with the former boundaries...What is it about Chingford that makes it an exception?" - as I have said elsewhere, whether your view is, or consensus is, that the historic counties were abolished (I would argue they were not), the wording "is in the historic county of", in the present tense, would not be incorrect or misleading, as "historic county" refers to the definition of the counties according to historical traditions (i.e. the areas which served as lieutenancy areas and the sole definition of "the counties" before the Local Government Act 1888). Even if changes to local government areas did did abolish the traditional/historic counties, the meaning of "historic county" would remain the same. The past-tense wording "was in the historic county of", which you have used, would imply that the traditional counties were distinguished from other definitions of the counties as being the "historic" ones before there were any other types of county from which to distinguish them. The Government itself, and plenty of reliable sources, many of which originate from Government webpages and documents, use the present tense to refer to historic counties. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 21:11, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

There are two objections here, 1. Historic counties are not officially recognised by any authority or the post office. Maps showing their boundaries are always historical documents. We might as well say "England is part of the historic Roman Empire".

2. If we really must mention ceremonial and historic counties, terms seldom heard beyond these pages, could they please as another editor agreed previously, not be in the first paragraph. The history of the political geography of Chingford is well documented in the second paragraph. The start of this paragraph is the perfect place to mention historic counties, preferably in the past tense. LondonEast4 (talk) 23:23, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

 * Agreed, guidelines at WP:UKTOWNS say that we should mention the historic county were different from the current county, but actually suggest this is in a paragraph describing the historical context. Guidelines on writing about counties (WP:UKCOUNTIES) clearly say that discussion about historical county be in the past tense because we do not assert, in wikivoice, the minority view that historic counties still exist with their former borders. The lead as it is today is repetitive, telling us twice that Chingford was in Essex, the first time with a wording suggesting it is still in a thing called a historic county, which is confusing. That first mention can go, because, as you say, this is already in the second paragraph which is fully compliant with the guidelines. I shall make an edit to reflect the guidelines and this consensus. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 08:11, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you Sirfurboy, this clears up confusion, conforms with the guidelines, and is accurate and relevant. LondonEast4 (talk) 13:14, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

The 'gap'
When I view this page there is a big blank gap under the 'Landmarks' heading. Does anyone know how to remove this?

Lawrence and Pole Hill
The statement, "Contrary to popular myth, Lawrence never lived on Pole Hill," needs a citation. (The Pole Hill page contradicts this statement, saying, "Lawrence of Arabia once owned a considerable amount of land on the western side of the hill and built himself a small hut there in which he lived for several years." It has a citation but this doesn't actually say he lived there.)  Nonky (talk) 20:32, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Danniella Westbrook
Her wiki page states that she lives in kent, and i could find no evidence so suggest otherwise, so i have deleted that line from the notable people section.86.21.103.217 (talk) 14:57, 10 May 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 one external links on Chingford. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150906090756/http://www.london.gov.uk:80/sites/default/files/LP2011%20Chapter%202.pdf to http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/LP2011%20Chapter%202.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120111083038/http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Environment_and_planning/Parks_and_open_spaces/Epping_Forest/ to http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Environment_and_planning/Parks_and_open_spaces/Epping_Forest/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 15:30, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Chingford. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/LP2011%20Chapter%202.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051118211612/http://www.londonrailways.net/chingfd.htm to http://www.londonrailways.net/chingfd.htm
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20121223232922/http://viewfinder.english-heritage.org.uk/search/results.aspx?index=0&mainQuery=Chingford&searchType=all&form=basic&theme=&county=&district=&placeName= to http://viewfinder.english-heritage.org.uk/search/results.aspx?index=0&mainQuery=Chingford&searchType=all&form=basic&theme=&county=&district=&placeName=

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 08:42, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 10 external links on Chingford. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110612205426/http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Leisure_and_culture/Local_history_and_heritage/Buildings_outside_the_City/hunting_lodge.htm to http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Leisure_and_culture/Local_history_and_heritage/Buildings_outside_the_City/hunting_lodge.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110612205426/http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Leisure_and_culture/Local_history_and_heritage/Buildings_outside_the_City/hunting_lodge.htm to http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Leisure_and_culture/Local_history_and_heritage/Buildings_outside_the_City/hunting_lodge.htm
 * Added tag to https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/things-to-do/green-spaces/epping-forest/news/Documents/Forest%20Focus%20Autumn%202011.pdf
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/Pages/ServiceChild/Friday-Hill-House-disposal.aspx
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/Documents/fhh_sale_particulars_r1.pdf
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.walthamforest.gov.uk/index/business/business-property/chingford-municipal-offices-disposal.htm
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.gilmartinley.co.uk/getfile.aspx?a=21192&f=&e=&t=
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090214155704/http://www.wmagazine.com/celebrities/2007/08/beckhams_steven_klein?currentPage=2 to http://www.wmagazine.com/celebrities/2007/08/beckhams_steven_klein?currentPage=2
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20041011163715/http://www.thefa.com/TheFACup/TheFAVase/NewsAndFeatures/Postings/2004/09/BecksBrimsdownBoost.htm to http://www.thefa.com/TheFACup/TheFAVase/NewsAndFeatures/Postings/2004/09/BecksBrimsdownBoost.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100818040637/http://www.metal-archives.com/more.php?id=25 to http://www.metal-archives.com/more.php?id=25
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070204015548/http://cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/leisure_heritage/architectural_heritage/Buildingsoutsidethecity/hunting_lodge.htm to http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/leisure_heritage/architectural_heritage/Buildingsoutsidethecity/hunting_lodge.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 20:51, 14 September 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Chingford


text:
Talk:Chislehurst

Photo
The photo is poor and is of the cave attraction rather than something that signifies Chislehurst itself. However it's better than nothing, I hope. Secretlondon 13:03, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Spelling
Where does the spellins of chiselherste come from? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Alec - U.K. (talk • contribs).
 * I don't know where your spellins (sic) comes from, but the traditional spelling is a modern version of what you will find in the second sentence of the article. Kevin McE 16:18, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Chislehurst. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090820050141/http://www.chislehurstbaptistchurch.com/Chislehurst_Baptist_Church/home.html to http://www.chislehurstbaptistchurch.com/Chislehurst_Baptist_Church/home.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070603070042/http://www.chislehurstmethodistcircuit.co.uk/circle_1.htm to http://www.chislehurstmethodistcircuit.co.uk/circle_1.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 11:35, 5 August 2017 (UTC)

Restructure 1 June 2021
Following some pretty nasty comments in the edit summary, and to be clear I am considering requests at ANI/DELREV/RPP, I have restructured to achieve broad WP:UKTOWNS compliance, which is usually the best way to go in the event of disputes.. The result is not perfect but is the right way forward and the article can gradually be reworked towards that structure. It is likely Culture and community and Landmarks sections will eventually take some of the content currently in the Geography and history sections in time. The Toponymy header may be dropped in time depending on how the history section evolves. Thankyou. Djm-leighpark (talk) 22:58, 1 June 2021 (UTC) Actually I have created a Landmarks section and moved the cases and Camden place there as it helped reduced awwardness. Thankyou. Djm-leighpark (talk) 23:16, 1 June 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Chislehurst


text:
Talk:Chiswick

Chiswick Works
Hi,

as a bus buff I missed a note about London Transport's famous Chiswick Works opened in 1921 where buses were repaired, overhauled, repainted and in the beginning even constructed. Moreover buses underwent tilt tests and drivers where instructed on skid pans.

Could anyone add a few lines, please. I would be very grateful as I think that it's a part of London's absorbing transport history.

Thank you very much

Michael (Munich, Germany) Frank Michael 68 (talk) 07:02, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Chiswick


text:
Talk:Clapham

£488 14s
I have changed "£488. 14" to "£488 14s" in the Early history. The source, BHO on Clapham (Holy Trinity) at https://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-dict/england/pp616-620#h3-0014, also has "£488. 14", which is unclear and may be a scanning artefact. "£488 14s" seems the most plausible sense. --Frans Fowler (talk) 16:15, 4 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Corrected source name -- Frans Fowler (talk) 16:18, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Clapham


text:
Talk:Clerkenwell

Location
Why is there no definition of its geographical area enclosed by roads like there is for Marylebone, Fitzrovia, Mayfair or Soho? I would suggest "Clerkenwell has no official boundaries, but can be roughly defined as the area bounded by Gray's Inn Road to the west, Euston Road/Pentonville Road to the north, Goswell Road to the east, and either Victoria Road or Upper Thames Street to the south. Agree with these boundaries? Franiel242

I think Clerkenwell is not so broad, and can be determined much more precisely. South: Charterhouse Street (at intersection of Farringdon Road) along to Carthusian Street (at intersection of Aldersgate Street). East: Aldersgate Street (at intersection of Carthusian Street) along to Goswell Road (at intersection of Islington High Street). North: Pentonville Road (at intersection of Islington High Street) along to Pentonville Road (at intersection of Kings Cross Road). West: the western edge is trickier and much more imprecise. I have reviewed the map of the Clerkenwell Ward of Islington Borough, which has been quite unfortunately named since Clerkenwell is considerably bigger than Clerkenwell Ward. I also note that Clerkenwell Ward is at the far south-western corner of Islington Borough so its boundaries are likely to be both older and more robust than other wards within the borough. I also refer to the James Tyrer map of Clerkenwell of 1805. Similarly, an imprecise western edge exists, which I believe may be the River Fleet. I therefore use the western boarder as specified by the Clerkenwell Ward of Islington Borough which is (starting at the north-western point on the corner of Pentonville Road and Kings Cross Road): Kings Cross Road, taking a turn west on Calthorpe Street, turning south on Phoenix Place, crossing over into Warner Street, turning east on Ray Street, turning south on Herbal Hill, turning east on Clerkenwell Road, then finally turning south on Farringdon Road, where the south-western corner of Clerkenwell can be found at the intersection of Farringdon Road and Charterhouse Street. RCH London (talk) 15:36, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Clerkenwell Green
I hope no-one minds but I could not see why Clerkenwell Green was listed as a nearby place when it's actually smack in the middle of it. So I've made it a couple of sentences in the article itself, rather than a link. Nevilley 13:56, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

I work in what terms itself Clerkenwell (EC1R), but it's actually in the London Borough of Camden. Is this technically a different locale from Clerkenwell proper, or does Clerkenwell straddle Islington and Camden?Billyblunt 14:37, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Clerkenwell proper is not in Camden - it's a ward in Islington. I guess there may be some parts to the West which people refer to as Clerkenwell but which are in Camden. Similarly, the Southern tip of Clerkenwell extends into the City. 82.35.192.171 09:27, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

All of Clerkenwell lies within the LB of Islington. There is no overlap with Camden. Clerkenwell is bordered on the west by Farringdon Road, on the east by Goswell Street, to the South by Smithfield Market/the City of London, and to the North by Rosebery Avenue. It is a small area, reflecting the size and extent of the village it once was. --SandyDancer 15:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't think that's the only common definition of Clerkenwell. For a start it excludes Mount Pleasant, which is usually taken to be in the area. It also excludes the triangle bounded by Clerkenwell Road, Farringdon Road and Rosebery Avenue, which according to the Rough Guide is the part of Clerkenwell with the strongest Italian links - although admittedly Rough Guides often get things wrong. I'd say Clerkenwell is partly in Camden, and indeed partly in WC1. Lfh 21:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Goswell Street? I think you mean Goswell Road old chum. Beanhead McGinty 13:18, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Hostel in Clerkenwell Close
In the autumn of 1972, I stayed for about a week in a hostel in Clerkenwell Close. I cannot remember its name, but it was located in a warehouse building opposite St. James's Church. Its clientele was mostly in their 20's, as I was then. It was an interesting mix of types ranging from recovering addicts to a couple of office hands from the City. I was doing historical research at the Post Office in St. Martin's Le Grand, so the location was convenient at least. I remember it being 50p a night, including a breakfast consisting of a bap and a 2 oz piece of cheese. At the time, Woolworth's was paying 5 quid a week to shopgirls, as they were called.

In those days, Clerkenwell Green had various small workshops. One place made wooden "louvred" shutters. As mentioned in the article, you could tell it was once a village, but other than the small scale of the buildings, there was not much charm.

Even so, I have a couple of vivid memories. I heard bellringing practice in the church opposite the hostel. On another evening, I looked out the window as I went down the stairs, to see an old woman standing beneath a lamp, looking up at me. She had on a flouncy, tattered black outfit, with a hat, and carrying an open black parasol! I had once seen a Giles cartoon of a similar scene, but the women were much younger. Could this have been the oldest tart in London? Monomoit (talk) 23:27, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Clerkenwell re. questionable virtue to this page of photo of artist in a studio near Mount Pleasant
Hi DBaK, I reverted your edit, but if you really think the image wrong do remove it again. The character spent two years making some extraordinary art in Panther House, 2001-2003, and was later deported back to Russia, having spent a while in an immigrant detention camp.Rodolph (talk) 17:21, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the note. Can we maybe take it to the Talk page of the article and reach consensus there? I won't re-revert you in the meantime. Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 22:57, 29 November 2014 (UTC)
 * (above message moved here from elsewhere)Rodolph (talk) 01:44, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Clerkenwell. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101106161343/http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/speeches-and-transcripts/2010/11/east-end-tech-city-speech-56602 to http://www.number10.gov.uk/news/speeches-and-transcripts/2010/11/east-end-tech-city-speech-56602
 * Added tag to http://travel2.nytimes.com/2005/05/08/travel/08clerk.html?ex=1161057600&en=e9ba92ef4c9b30d7&ei=5070
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050312172718/http://streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=531457&y=182148&z=1&sv=531250%2C182250&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf to http://streetmap.co.uk/newmap.srf?x=531457&y=182148&z=1&sv=531250%2C182250&st=4&ar=Y&mapp=newmap.srf&searchp=newsearch.srf
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20040628124139/http://homepages.goldsmiths.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/Clerkenwell/ClerkenwellHistory.html to http://homepages.goldsmiths.ac.uk/genuki/MDX/Clerkenwell/ClerkenwellHistory.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 09:02, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

"Notable people" section
Are these notable residents of Clerkenwell? People born there? Is this section more than just trivia? Eric talk 15:21, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Clerkenwell


text:
Talk:Cockfosters

Untitled
Why was the area information replaced by the band? Isnt it more like an advertisment?

Okay, I'll bite. What is the derivation of the name? Avalon 03:49, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
 * A man who 'fosters' (looks after) chickens and thus cockerels. At least that's what the status quo says. --80.42.9.199 19:07, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

The name is thought to have come from about 500 years ago there were the family or ranger called the Cockforesters and it is a corruption of this. Simply south 16:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Clarify, please
One of the short stories features a visit to "lost property" at Cockfosters Underground station
 * What does this mean? I'm sure there was never a Lost Property Office at this station. Valetude (talk) 18:19, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * That's why it's in quotes. It's fiction based on the idea that as the end of the line, that's where it would all end up. Philafrenzy (talk) 18:29, 29 December 2021 (UTC)
 * That's useful to know, Phil. But it neeeds to be in there. Valetude (talk) 01:35, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * It's attributed to a collection of short stories. Did you go there expecting there to be a lost property office and found there wasn't? Philafrenzy (talk) 10:06, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
 * No, I didn't. I just wondered what the statement was referring to, as most readers would. But thanks anyway for your enlightenment. Valetude (talk) 13:16, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cockfosters


text:
Talk:Coulsdon

Pronunciation of the name
Whilst the received pronunciation is "Cools-don" (IPA /'ku:lsdən/), many locals pronounce it "Coals-den" (/'kəʊlsdən/).

Erm, no we don't. The received pronounciation is correct as written in IPA, however the more common pronounciation is actually 'Callsdun' (this will read better to people who live around London than anywhere else; I can't work out how to write 'call' in IPA as it's pronounced by 95% of London, hence the note here). --Veratien 10:25, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Addition of St. Andrews Church
Was surprised to see no mention of the local Anglican Church on the article. Have added both a reference and a link at the bottom - hope this is acceptable. And for the record, I say 'Koo-wuls-den'. If that makes sense! :) Tom Black 23:38, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I was surprised to find a somewhat incomplete list of the places of worship in Coulsdon, yet with a link to a photograph of one place of worship. I will try to fill out this list with some additional details. Buzwad (talk) 21:05, 26 December 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation
The debate on pronunciation is interesting if dated. The common pronunciation is Cools-den. Long live the ever evolving English Language. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.130.130.105 (talk) 12:42, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Autochthony writes - and the link to LBVCR goes to a British Heart Foundation site. Very Worthy - but not strictly relevant. Could the Wiki-ist who added that take it away, please. 27 June 2009 - 1720z. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.161.194.33 (talk) 17:20, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Surrey?
In the Times, it says "Coulsdon, Surrey". Is this correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.109.254.144 (talk) 02:49, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

The location of Coulsdon (and other places in the Outer London boroughs) is treated inconsistently in the media. Coulsdon is usually referred as "Coulsdon, South London" or "Coulsdon, Surrey". As this page says, it is in the LONDON Borough of Croydon, and this has been the case since 1965. Some postcoding systems still insist that it is in Surrey. Some automated letters from the Croydon Council itself are addressed to "Coulsdon, Surrey". Google Maps says that it is in Surrey. Yet it is not included in modern maps of Surrey. Many people still put Surrey in their postal address, either believing Coulsdon still is in Surrey or from a wish to be part of the county and not part of London or even Croydon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NonID (talk • contribs) 11:40, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Further to my previous note, Google Maps now describes the location as Greater London. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NonID (talk • contribs) 19:18, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Places of worship
It seems that the "Places of Religious (sic) interest" is a grandiose title for a list of places of worship. Such a list may be better suited to the end of the article, rather than taking such prominence (2nd section) with no explanation. Buzwad (talk) 23:09, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 one external links on Coulsdon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070715015325/http://www.gwp.enta.net/surrnames.htm to http://www.gwp.enta.net/surrnames.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120817013248/http://www.tfl.gov.uk/static/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/3752.html to http://www.tfl.gov.uk/static/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/3752.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 11:49, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Coulsdon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160304040655/http://www.sssi.naturalengland.org.uk/citation/citation_photo/1003445.pdf to http://www.sssi.naturalengland.org.uk/citation/citation_photo/1003445.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 16:17, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 14 external links on Coulsdon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140715001321/http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/175447/Geology-of-Surrey-with-diagrams3.pdf to http://www.surreycc.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/175447/Geology-of-Surrey-with-diagrams3.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140714212433/http://planning.croydon.gov.uk/DocOnline/38256_3.pdf to http://planning.croydon.gov.uk/DocOnline/38256_3.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140627230649/http://www.croydon.gov.uk/leisure/parksandopenspaces/parksatoz/bradmore/bghistory to http://www.croydon.gov.uk/leisure/parksandopenspaces/parksatoz/bradmore/bghistory
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110302201508/http://www.croydon.gov.uk/leisure/parksandopenspaces/parksatoz/riddlesdown/rdhistory to http://www.croydon.gov.uk/leisure/parksandopenspaces/parksatoz/riddlesdown/rdhistory
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121119144719/http://www.croydon.gov.uk/contents/documents/meetings/806358/609905/2008/2008-12-10/histappa.pdf to http://www.croydon.gov.uk/contents/documents/meetings/806358/609905/2008/2008-12-10/histappa.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121105024515/http://www.newlondonarchitecture.org/project.php?id=486&name=sainsburyscoulsdon to http://www.newlondonarchitecture.org/project.php?id=486&name=sainsburyscoulsdon
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110605124017/http://www.croydon.gov.uk/contents/departments/planningandregeneration/pdf/spg20apps.pdf to http://www.croydon.gov.uk/contents/departments/planningandregeneration/pdf/spg20apps.pdf
 * Added tag to http://www.canehillpark.co.uk/userfiles/canehill_boards/
 * Added tag to http://www.canehillpark.co.uk/userfiles/pdf/Cane%20Hill%20Feedback%20Report%20final.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070211214812/http://www.ubmjc.org/beit_hallel/ to http://www.ubmjc.org/beit_hallel/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090902224022/http://www.congregational.org.uk/content.aspx?id=3022 to http://www.congregational.org.uk/content.aspx?id=3022
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20130421035624/http://www.london-to-brighton.co.uk/ to http://www.london-to-brighton.co.uk/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140227223846/http://www.twcoulsdon.org.uk/history.shtml to http://www.twcoulsdon.org.uk/history.shtml
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140517122006/http://www.canehill.info/About-Cane-Hill/Coulsdon-History to http://www.canehill.info/About-Cane-Hill/Coulsdon-History
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050411185749/http://www.coulsdontcis.co.uk/content/project/project.htm to http://www.coulsdontcis.co.uk/content/project/project.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070211214812/http://www.ubmjc.org/beit_hallel/ to http://www.ubmjc.org/beit_hallel/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 21:43, 11 January 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Coulsdon


text:
Talk:Cowley, London

This page is part of the WikiProject London: please add information about this area to this article

title: Talk:Cowley, London


text:
Talk:Crayford

TV Star?
I am removing contribution by 89.167.173.179 "Child Tv star and model Anthony Forgham grew up in crayford and was set for a life of fame and stardom before he was Questioned for the murder of a classmate on a school trip in the mid 90s." Many people grew up in Crayford. Anthony Forgham does not appear elsewhere in the Web and seems to be unimportant. Apuldram (talk) 10:04, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Crayford. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added tag to http://www.bexley.gov.uk/localstudies/local_history/guide_pdfs/22_crayford.pdf
 * Added tag to http://www.bexley.gov.uk/localstudies/local_history/guide_pdfs/12_may_place_crayford.pdf
 * Added tag to http://www.bexley.gov.uk/localstudies/local_history/guide_pdfs/76_two_local_inventors.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070609042913/http://www.bexley.gov.uk/service/towns/crayford/thingstodo.html to http://www.bexley.gov.uk/service/towns/crayford/thingstodo.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 06:59, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

London / Greater London
According to Wikiproject London Guidelines nowhere should be described as “Greater” only “London”. People have recently been making a mockery of the Wikiproject and I for one shall not stand for it. I just wanted to make that clear here.Justgravy (talk) 16:29, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

Regarding the same comment at Talk:Bexleyheath - this is not in the Wikiproject London Guidelines, which only say in WP:LONDONNAMES to avoid using "Greater" in list-article titles. --Lord Belbury (talk) 19:12, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

 * Lord Belbury (and others) are making a mockery of Wikiproject London as a whole. I will not stand for this and would die to defend it. They are demonstrating that Wikipedia is institutionally biased...Justgravy (talk) 21:28, 3 January 2021 (UTC)
 * JG, the guidelines state:

 * "London" is used in preference to "Greater London", except where it is specifically the local government area, less the City of London:
 * e.g. List of wards in Greater London and Category:Councillors in Greater London
 * "Greater London" is used for List of Sites of Special Scientific Interest in Greater London because that is the nomenclature :::used ("areas of search")

 * If you want to focus your energies on something more productive, why not question the original research that has lead to the assumption above that London is the same area as Greater London (plus the square mile)? Read it twice, or even thrice, because, yes, it is a bit confusing - that's often what happens when you use personal opinion to make a statement of fact. Does this mean, for example, that Crayford, London, should refer to Crayford, Greater London, because Greater London is refering specifically to the local govt area created by the London Government Act 1963? Roger 8 Roger (talk) 08:19, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

 * The problem I have with what you are saying is that you do not want to refer to places like Lewisham or Kensington as Greater London. However, this is also referring to the local government area.Justgravy (talk) 09:41, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

 * the guidelines you're quoting apply only to the article names of list articles about London (ie. those in Category:London-related_lists), which I would assume to be more about WP:CONCISION than anything else, when article title space is at a premium. Justgravy is wrong to suggest that these guidelines also answer the question of whether or not to use the word "Greater" in the text of any given article. --Lord Belbury (talk) 09:46, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

 * So you are saying Roger has been misinterpreting things as well? I thought you and Roger were on the same side?Justgravy (talk) 18:16, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

 * I'm mentioning something Roger may have overlooked, although reading it again perhaps he was only using it as an example. This is not a WP:BATTLEGROUND, we're all here to make Wikipedia better. --Lord Belbury (talk) 18:26, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

 * "We're all here to make Wikipedia better" - exactly, truth reigns supreme. But it is funny you mention battleground, because I feel that Roger has been uncooperative and insulting at times.Justgravy (talk) 20:58, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

 * Also, getting back to my point, here it does state that "For locations within Greater London, placename, London should be used." Also, at the very top of this page it does say "This page describes conventions for determining the titles of Wikipedia articles on places, AND for the use of place names in Wikipedia articles." It seems clear to me, I honestly fail to see what I am missing here?Justgravy (talk) 21:05, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

 * I think you're missing that a "place name" isn't the same as a sentence or paragraph that describes where that place is. --Lord Belbury (talk) 11:01, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

 * It is if that description includes a "place name".Justgravy (talk) 17:35, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

 * That's more for situations like the Derry/Londonderry name dispute where Wikipedia needs to make a consistent call on what name to use for a place, outside of the place's article itself. Guidance that For locations within Greater London, placename, London should be used. doesn't tell us anything about how to best write a sentence like "Crayford is a town and electoral ward located in [Greater/Southeast] London". --Lord Belbury (talk) 16:02, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

 * The guideline explicitly states to not mention the “Greater” for areas within (Greater) London, it's literally written right there in the guideline. Therefore, I would argue that to then immediately describe X as "an area of Greater London” would be in violation of this guideline.Justgravy (talk) 16:32, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not seeing it. If you think you've found a magic bullet to address the recent no-consensus WikiProject London RfC about this, you should mention it there. --Lord Belbury (talk) 16:42, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

JG, have you considered that what you are referring to is merely a point of ambiguity with Project guidelines that should be clarified? Therefore, it is not a consensus point of best practice that is being ignored. The intent of the guidelines does appear to be as LB describes it, not as you are describing it. Personally, I return to my repeated request that common sense and common usage should first be considered, something I think you are failing to do. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 20:08, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

 * It’s pretty obvious though. Otherwise it would say “For locations within Greater London, placename, Greater London should be used.” However, it doesn’t and so meaning can be drawn from this. I do not think of it as a “magic bullet” at all. This is more to do with not accepting and/or going against guidelines. Otherwise, what is the point in even having guidelines? All editors would have to do to go against them would be to get a few other editors to agree with them and then argue consensus. Also, I can’t edit that conversation anymore, it explicitly says “The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it.”Justgravy (talk) 21:20, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

 * A magic bullet is "a simple remedy for a difficult or complex problem". You're acting as if there's no need to establish a new consensus about London locations because you've found a line in a guideline that says to write place names as "Placename, London" instead of "Placename, Greater London" and you think that solves it. The RfC has closed but you started a thread to continue the discussion, that's the conversation I was referring to. --Lord Belbury (talk) 09:08, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

 * Trust me, I have analysed this from all angles. However, it just doesn’t seem ambiguous. As I said, it explicitly mentions places in “Greater” and then removes it. What is the point in even having guidelines if editors just try to find excuses to ignore them…Justgravy (talk) 21:45, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

You have ignored my point above and are fixed on "it is written down therefore it must be right and must, without question, be followed." But, in reply to what you have asked, any guidelines anywhere and for whatever purpose only work if people accept them. People will not accept them if they are wrong, draconian, ambiguous, or undesirable in any other way. The solution is either to fix them or if they are so wrong they cannot be fixed, to start again. Look at the road code for example. Even if all the road marking disappeared and all traffic lights disappeared, people would still follow the basic rules (drive on the left, indicate when turning, etc.) Why? Because they are guideline that work and people therefore accept them. (Being legally how people should drive just reinforces the common sense guidelines). If the guidelines are wrong they will not be followed: blame the guidelines, not the people who don't follow them. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 22:20, 8 January 2021 (UTC)

 * Guidelines are written to be followed, otherwise what purpose do they serve? The fact that something is a concrete guideline on Wikipedia means that it has been planned, written out and accepted, otherwise it wouldn’t exist. Just because certain individuals do not agree, does not mean it cannot be followed. You mentioned the law before and this is a good example. After something becomes law, every single citizen does not write consent form to say they agree, lots of people might disagree and think it’s stupid as well. However, if you break it and are caught you are punished. Not knowing and/or not agreeing will not fly with the Police when you are arrested and also will not fly with the prosecution when you later appear in court. Justgravy (talk) 18:47, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Crayford


text:
Talk:Cranham

historical information
Extensive historical information has previously been added to this article (and that for Upminster and Essex) only to be redacted by someone else. This makes the wikipedia project not worth bothering with. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 209.216.239.108 (talk • contribs).

 * Your edit introduced errors such as changing Romford Rural District to Romford Rural Division and added a link to a dead website. If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly or redistributed by others, do not submit it. MRSC 12:02, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Changes in political boundaries form a pretty minor, if not trivial, aspect of the recent, general history of the northern Thames littoral. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.96.8.218 (talk) 20:49, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Anybody can edit mercilessly; the question is whether it is done intelligently.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.96.8.218 (talk) 22:11, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Verifiability
The inclusion criteria is verifiability, not truth, which means reliable published sources are required for assertions to be added. Misattribution of inserted claims to existing citations in the article, which do not agree, is a no-no. MRSC (talk) 18:34, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 15 external links on Cranham. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110604093935/http://www.london.gov.uk/archive/mayor/planning/srdf/docs/east-srdf.pdf to http://www.london.gov.uk/archive/mayor/planning/srdf/docs/east-srdf.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090211082200/http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/relationships.jsp?u_id=10166913&c_id=10001043 to http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/relationships.jsp?u_id=10166913&c_id=10001043
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110608192030/http://www.havering.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=7554 to http://www.havering.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=7554
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110608192140/http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=6032 to http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=6032
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110608192159/http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=6050 to http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=6050
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110608192125/http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4369 to http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4369
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081219031529/http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=379 to http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=379
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101109044217/http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=16052 to http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=16052
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120425190624/http://www.tfl.gov.uk/static/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/12433.html to http://www.tfl.gov.uk/static/corporate/media/newscentre/archive/12433.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101215095825/http://havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=8849 to http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=8849
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110903191918/http://www.allsaintscranham.co.uk/generaloglethorpe.html to http://www.allsaintscranham.co.uk/generaloglethorpe.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110608191950/http://www.havering.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=2359&p=0 to http://www.havering.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=2359&p=0
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110608192352/http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=15494 to http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=15494
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110608192852/http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=14998 to http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=14998
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101123090209/http://havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4705 to http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4705

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 00:23, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Cranham. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110608212526/http://www.havering.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=18289&p=0 to http://www.havering.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=18289&p=0
 * Added tag to http://www.thameschase.org.uk/directions.pdf
 * Added tag to http://www.havering.gov.uk/media/pdf/c/t/Food_RegistrationsJan%2707.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110608211323/http://www.havering.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=4743&p=0 to http://www.havering.gov.uk/CHttpHandler.ashx?id=4743&p=0

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 04:58, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cranham


text:
Talk:Cricklewood

Untitled
I'm really no expert here: Should Alan Coren be mentioned on this page?  22:25, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

If he was born or lived in Cricklewood then he belongs, feel free to add both to his page and to here. --/Mat 00:23, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't know. He wrote a number of books with "Cricklewood" in their titles. I've got another one called The Cricklewood Diet.  13:50, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Cricklewood quote
The quote beginning "Cricklewood is a land that sates the soul" was cited as "*Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine "Cricklewood", Blackwood's Edinburgh Magazine v.64 1848.". It does not appear there. It was previously attributed to a Seamus McTaggart. Does it have any validity at all?NebY (talk) 12:23, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

'"Cricklewood is a land that sates the soul of a true gentleman. It is a land of milk, honey, and ambrosia. The sweet teat of a nubile young lass is never far from the desiring lips in Cricklewood. But if I were to win the mastery of your firearm I would shoot you dead, sir."' I don't believe that this quote is useful (it is gibberish), nor is it at all verifiable as a real historical quote. I'm removing it. Fences and windows (talk) 21:42, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Good. Please can anyone who wants to restore this text first discuss it here? NebY (talk) 08:11, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 5 one external links on Cricklewood. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131229005203/http://www.wickes.co.uk/london/cricklewood/stry/nw26jn/ to http://www.wickes.co.uk/london/cricklewood/stry/nw26jn/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140521004251/http://www.brent.gov.uk/pks.nsf/Parks/LBB-39 to http://www.brent.gov.uk/pks.nsf/Parks/LBB-39
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130720030341/http://www.barnet-today.co.uk/tn/news.cfm?id=37643 to http://www.barnet-today.co.uk/tn/news.cfm?id=37643
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110928022438/http://committeepapers.barnet.gov.uk/democracy/meetings/meetingdetail.asp?meetingid=5751 to http://committeepapers.barnet.gov.uk/democracy/meetings/meetingdetail.asp?meetingid=5751
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150509203608/http://www.theirishworld.com/article.asp?SubSection_Id=10&Article_Id=1911 to http://www.theirishworld.com/article.asp?SubSection_Id=10&Article_Id=1911

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 07:29, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 one external links on Cricklewood. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140221031551/http://www.zsl.org/zsl-london-zoo/news/feline-frenzy,57,NS.html to http://www.zsl.org/zsl-london-zoo/news/feline-frenzy,57,NS.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140520220813/http://www.northwesttwo.co.uk/nw2network.php to http://www.northwesttwo.co.uk/nw2network.php
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120206213955/http://www.barnet.gov.uk/index/environment-planning/regeneration-and-strategic-development/regeneration-projects/regeneration-cricklewood.htm to http://www.barnet.gov.uk/index/environment-planning/regeneration-and-strategic-development/regeneration-projects/regeneration-cricklewood.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120225003535/http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/system/files/09.01.13.brent_cross.pdf to http://www.bettertransport.org.uk/system/files/09.01.13.brent_cross.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090925161033/http://timesonline.typepad.com:80/environment/2009/09/if-it-cant-be-carbon-neutral-should-they-build-it.html to http://timesonline.typepad.com/environment/2009/09/if-it-cant-be-carbon-neutral-should-they-build-it.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 09:43, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Cricklewood. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.zsl.org/zsl-london-zoo/news/feline-frenzy%2C57%2CNS.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://timesonline.typepad.com/environment/2009/09/if-it-cant-be-carbon-neutral-should-they-build-it.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070930210517/http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M%3FX=523986&Y=185925&A=Y&Z=1 to http://www.streetmap.co.uk/streetmap.dll?G2M%3FX=523986&Y=185925&A=Y&Z=1

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 09:09, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Cricklewood. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100329083155/http://www.brentcrosscricklewood.com/ to http://www.brentcrosscricklewood.com/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 11:56, 14 August 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cricklewood