text:
Talk:Twickenham

Bus route 110
Bus route 110 seems to not have a link, whilst all other bus routes do 2.120.20.3 (talk) 15:49, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Trafalgar school
Page does not mention Trafalgar Infant/Junior school.

Why "renowned" and "famous"?
The article states :

"roughly to the North-East of Twickenham Centre lies the renowned area bisected by Whitton Road, including the famous Court Way."

What exactly is renowned about this area and why is Court Way famous? I feel the author shouldnt tantalise us with these adjectives without backing them up. Surely if these areas really were renowned or famous I wouldnt be asking this question...82.35.169.190 21:58, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know about Court Way but Great Train Robber Charlie Wilson used to live on Craneford Way. FatGravyBoat 11:08, 9 December 2006 (UTC) FatGravyBoat

The fame of local Court Way has not reached me in 75 years so I have deleted the words. If they are valid a reference can be given on their re-instatement. SilasW 19:48, 11 May 2007 (UTC) I correct myself: the whole sentence "... bisected ..." is of no benefit. I've zapped it SilasW 19:53, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I've previously noticed this kind of comment added to the articles on various suburbs of southwest London. Much though I'd like to "assume good faith", I see these comments as interestingly compatible with the motives of would-be sellers of "property" in those particular areas. -- Hoary 00:40, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Pete Townshend and The Yardbirds
Contrary to the article Townshend lives in Richmond (across the river from Twickenham). Also saying "The Yardbirds" live in Twickenham is silly - it's as if they all live together or something. Name the band members who live there! --Thoughtcat 09:49, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

"Fortification"
The stateemnt that St Mary's church tower was formerly some sort of fortification is complete and utter rubbish. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by FatGravyBoat (talk • contribs) 11:09, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

"Famous" residents who aren't famous
I'd never heard of the popsters "Larrikin Love", but that little matter aside their article tells me that they've only existed since 2006 and have issued a total of one (1) album. So I snipped them off the end of the absurdly long list of "famous" residents.

A lot more people should probably be snipped from the list, too. Unless of course it's retitled "Celebs (including very minor ones) who have lived in Twickenham". -- Hoary 00:19, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Now popsters such as these merely have to be "notable" (according to unspecified criteria) and to have been "associated" (in unspecified ways) with Twickenham (evidence not required). And I'd thought that this was an encyclopedia. -- Hoary (talk) 01:21, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
 * The notability criteria for musicians/bands are quite well specified (see WP:MUSIC) in the case of Larrikin Love these are met and a ref for them being Twickenham based is here. Evidence is of course required to meet WP:V whatever the association and I suspect would be fairly easy to find for many of the names in the list. I don't think a list this long should really be in this article though. It would be better to create something like List of people from Twickenham for the list, and in this article write a paragraph of prose to cover the most important people.  JMiall  ₰  17:59, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

[bouncing left] I'll take your word for it that "Larrikin Love" merit an article. And that they are or were based in Twickenham. But their article says that during their brief existence they produced a grand total of one (1) album; and the article on that says nothing about it, really, instead just listing stuff on it and saying that it's all over in under 34 minutes (meaning that it's really just half an album).

List of people from Twickenham isn't necessarily a bad idea, but you'd have to say what being "from" somewhere meant.

Having a paragraph of prose to cover the most important people sounds good too, but then who are the most important? I can't claim to be able to answer this one myself, but I'm sure that an important person is one who (among other qualifications) has his or her own article. -- Hoary (talk) 01:26, 20 February 2009 (UTC)

Twickenham Park
I have references that Thomas Nott once owned "Twickenham Park". I have no knowledge of Twickenham but would like to turn the red link blue. Can anyone direct me to a suitable link? Lucian Sunday (talk) 20:25, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Lead photo of Teddington - half of it is in Hounslow
Obviously the important site in the photo is Twickenham Stadium, which as we know is in Twickenham. A nice photo, but according to my map about half the area shown, that beyond the stadium in the photo, is in the borough of Hounslow. I think the photo should be replaced by one in which all of the photo is Twickenham. There are plenty of places of interest and there must be aerial view which spans the borough and doesn't include other boroughs. Keep the present photo for the article on the Stadium. P0mbal (talk) 13:23, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Middlesex
I notice that there is no reference to Middlesex on this page. Someone must have gone to considerable effort to ignore this when the 704 AD quote includes the word in the one sentence mentioning Twickenham Middleseaxon. Tetron76 (talk) 11:49, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I've added a reference in the opening paragraph to Twickenham being historically part of Middlesex. Headhitter (talk) 11:52, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Category: Wikiproject London Transport
Simply south You removed the Category: Wikiproject London Transport tag from this article. But I think we should keep it – the Transport section in the article contains information about "Twickenham Garage" (coded AB), including its location and that the fact that the relevant destination blind on buses for garage journeys there always referred to it as Richmond Bridge. I don't believe this information is included elsewhere on Wikipedia. Headhitter (talk) 07:20, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Even so, it is not really a transport-related article. I disagree with the inclusion of the banner as the bus garage just forms part of the history of the area and whilst it would be nice if there was an article on it, there isn't. There are many other places in which bus garages are mentioned in the history, albeit briefly. If we do add the banner here we might as well place it on every single place name related to London. Simply south...... eating shoes for just 7 years 23:09, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
 * OK, Simply south, but how would you suggest we ensure that anyone (not me, incidentally) with an interest in London bus garages can easily access the relevant information that's in this article, given that I don't think it appears anywhere else? Headhitter (talk) 08:17, 7 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I don't really have an answer for that. It is best to probably leave the bus garage here. Other bus garages either have their own articles or are listed in the articles of the companies that ran them. Simply south...... eating shoes for just 7 years 18:16, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Twickenham
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Twickenham's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "ons": From Hampton, London: Key Statistics; Quick Statistics: Population Density United Kingdom Census 2011 Office for National Statistics Note: the towns and villages in this borough relatively neatly overlap with a number of wards. Hampton was split in 2001 into a neat three or four ward fit is listed, depending on whether Hampton Hill is included within its definition; the two places have their own amenities but much of these remain 'shared' to a greater or lesser extent. Hampton Wick is a buffered parish with its own railway station so is treated separately. Retrieved 21 November 2013 From Hampton Wick: Key Statistics; Quick Statistics: Population Density United Kingdom Census 2011 Office for National Statistics The single ward includes about one third of the two parks. Retrieved 21 November 2013

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 20:32, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Twickenham
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Twickenham's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Blue Plaques": From Barnes, London:  From List of people from the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames:  From The Terrace, Barnes:

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 03:38, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Twickenham


text:
Talk:Upminster

Ceremonial county
The Ceremonial County should be Essex. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.105.6.182 (talk • contribs).

 * Not according to the Lieutenancies Act 1997. Greater London is the ceremonial county for all London boroughs (but not the City). MRSC • Talk 06:06, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Yes, I stand corrected. However Upminster is in the historic/traditional county of Essex - there are some who maintain that these traditional counties are still valid and should receive some reconition, should Essex get a mention in the article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.105.48.22 (talk • contribs).

 * I've added a mention and link to Chafford (hundred) which was the ancient subdivision covering the area. MRSC • Talk 06:51, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Upminster IS in Essex, people please do your homework! It does not have a London address nor a London telephone dialing code! It just happens to come under the control of a London Borough, like Ilford. (82.2.175.77 (talk) 10:23, 20 March 2008 (UTC))

 * Agreed Upminster is in Essex. Even the Havering Council town Hall is in Essex. Poitical boundaries are constantly changing. The definition of the boundaries change to keep the voting numbers even, so the political wards of Upminster and Cranham have no reference to the postal areas of Upminster and Essex.217.34.44.59 (talk) 15:02, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Addresses and dialling codes are irrelevant. Sewardstone has these but is NOT in London, why? Because it is not inside a London Borough. If an area is within a London Borough it is in London, end of, finito, goodbye Justgravy (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:07, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

Sexiest town 2009
Does anyone want to put it in a mention. People might be interested. You can find info here: http://www.mirror.co.uk/2009/09/08/upminster-named-sexiest-town-in-britain-and-bangor-s-third-115875-21655996/ .Larnu UK 19:03, 13 September 2009 (BST)
 * There is a whole industry in producing this kind of 'research' for companies to use for marketing purposes and it should be treated as such. MRSC (talk) 07:10, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

List of members of parliament
This belongs in Upminster (UK Parliament constituency). MRSC (talk) 18:38, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Who is Who
This belongs in List of people from Havering, but see List of people from Barking and Dagenham for a list that is properly referenced. MRSC (talk) 18:41, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

 * From my understanding of history most of the people on the who is who list that you have removed never lived in anywhere called Havering ! Upminster and Cranham are the reference not some greater political boundary. 217.34.44.59 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:57, 5 February 2010 (UTC).

 * List is now incorporated into List of people from Havering. I see now it was lifted from http://www.upminster.com/history/people/whoiswho.htm. Please note Copyright violations. MRSC (talk) 18:15, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

"Very affluent"
We need to be careful saying things like this and house prices in London are high everywhere, so it doesn't tell us anything. However, the English indices of deprivation 2010 show Upminster ward as the least deprived in London and this has been added with a citation. MRSC (talk) 07:05, 15 February 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 4 external links on Upminster. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090211082200/http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/relationships.jsp?u_id=10166913&c_id=10001043 to http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/relationships.jsp?u_id=10166913&c_id=10001043
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110604093935/http://www.london.gov.uk/archive/mayor/planning/srdf/docs/east-srdf.pdf to http://www.london.gov.uk/archive/mayor/planning/srdf/docs/east-srdf.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081219031529/http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=379 to http://www.havering.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=379
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20091014065510/http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/high-frequency-services-map.pdf to http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/high-frequency-services-map.pdf

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license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Upminster


text:
Baiame

In Australian Aboriginal mythology, Baiame (or Biame, Baayami, Baayama or Byamee) is the creator god and sky father in the Dreaming of several Aboriginal Australian peoples of south-eastern Australia, such as the Wonnarua, Kamilaroi, Guringay, Eora, Darkinjung, and Wiradjuri peoples.

Description and history

The Baiame story tells how Baiame came down from the sky to the land and created rivers, mountains, and forests. He then gave the people their laws of life, traditions, songs, and culture. He also created the first initiation site. This is known as a bora; a place where boys were initiated into manhood. When he had finished, he returned to the sky and people called him the Sky Hero or All Father or Sky Father.

He is said to have two wives, Ganhanbili and Birrangulu, the latter often being identified as an emu, and with whom he has a son Dharramalan. In other stories Dharramalan is said to be brother to Baiame.

It was forbidden to mention or talk about the name of Baiame publicly. Women were not allowed to see drawings of Baiame nor approach Baiame sites, which are often male initiation sites (boras).

In rock paintings Baiame is often depicted as a human figure with a large head-dress or hairstyle, with lines of footsteps nearby. He is always painted in front view; Dharramalan is drawn in profile. Baiame is often shown with internal decorations such as waistbands, vertical lines running down the body, bands and dots.

Attempted link with the Christian God
The missionary William Ridley adopted the name of Baiame for the Christian God when translating into Gamilaraay (the language of the Kamilaroi). It is sometimes suggested that Baiame was a construct of early Christian missionaries, but K Langloh Parker dated belief in Baiame to (at latest) 1830, prior to missionary activity in the region.

Portrayal in the Awaba (Lake Macquarie) area
In the area surrounding Awaba (Lake Macquarie) in New South Wales, Australia, he was believed to have created all of the mountains, lakes, rivers and caves in the area. After he finished creating, he jumped back up to the spirit world from Mount Yengo, which he flattened. Its flat top can still be seen to this day, near Wollombi Valley. A cave near Milbrodale contains many Wonnarua Aboriginal paintings, including a large figure of a man who may be Baiame. It is popularly known as the Baiame Cave and is part of a series of rock shelters on an area of 80 hectares. The site is listed on the Register of the National Estate and is considered a sacred site.

title: Baiame


text:
Talk:Vauxhall

Untitled
CLARITY RE VAUXHALL CONSTITUENCY AREAS.

So far as I can see - apoloIoes if I am in error - this article does not indicate / provide a clear intelligible map which identifies which streets and Ward areas fall within its Parliamentary and local Council Constituency areas. It would be help if it did and if the link was made very clear. --TheGuntz (talk) 22:06, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Vauxhall - the Russian Connection
Is the "people's hall" alternative etymology for the Russian Вокзал (vokzal) suggested by the contributor at 141.154.226.36 in the least bit plausible? The sources cited by earlier contributors all show the word being used in association with Pleasere Gardens. Vauxhall Gardens was one of the most famous pleasure gardens in Europe. --Lang rabbie 23:08, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I share your scepticism 'lang rabbie' about the putative alternative origin of the Russian word - from Dutch and German. The article in hidden europe magazine (already cited in the Wikipedia entry) is interesting as it suggests that the word entered the Russian language twice - initially with the meaning 'pleasure gardens', and then later with the meaning 'railway station'. They also note that the use of the word to mean pleasure gardens was not unique to Russian. Even Copenhagen's famous Tivoli Gardens initially had the name 'Vauxhall' in the title.

 * The evidence seems to be overwhelmingly in favour of the standard etymology, so I have removed the "alternative". Respected etymological authorities need to be cited if the theory is to be re-inserted. Vilĉjo 21:41, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Also highly skeptical. And don't like conjecture at Wikipedia. But for the researchers: there might be a connection with Scandinavian and Slavic languages. 'Vokssal' is also close to 'folksal', no? And so forth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.221.31.30 (talk) 07:58, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

 * As Russian, I confirm: yes, the word "vokzal" certainly originated from a Vauxhall (though there are a few versions about how exactly this word was adopted), and there are absolutely no connection with any German os Slavic words, and no 'folkzals' and so on. Well, except "zal", which is Russian translation of a word "hall", which has been adopted from the same English word much earlier. But I should correct the author of a theme: 'vokzal' is not a simple train station (which is 'станция', 'stantsiya', like English word), but a central station, like German word 'Hauptbahnhof'. - 94.79.28.90 (talk) 11:26, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

 * Could it be that as Vauxhall in London was being created, Russia became aware of this and borrowed the name into their language for the meaning 'central railway station'? I think this is what is being said. --80.169.112.134 (talk) 07:30, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

 * And just to add to that, the information supplied in this Wiki section clearly shows the author has the information to draw the conclusion that vokzal derived from the pleasure garden association adapted from the Saint Petersburg construction in 1783, combined with Tsar Nicholas I's reference to a voksal when he saw trains at Vauxhall because it had already been established that for Russia, grand train stations seemed to coincide with amusement parks and so they called the larger ones voksals and the ones that didn't live up to the prestige a stantsiya. --80.169.112.134 (talk) 07:46, 15 November 2020 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "Vauxhall"
Hello. Can someone indicate the pronunciation of "Vauxhall" in the intro? Thanks. 206.168.224.66 23:25, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Like "fox-hall", but with a "v". Take a listen here 128.252.78.87 (talk) 17:36, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think the H is pronounced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.140.57.113 (talk) 13:34, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Gay Village
The reference to 'Voho' needs removing. I live in Vauxhall and no-one refers to it as that there or on the London gay scene in general. I doubt anyone ever as, except maybe once for comic effect. A google search shows no support for its use. Vauxhall1964 17:33, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Noted residents
Dan Macmillan is the great-grandson of former Tory prime minister Harold Macmillan. He has had a stab at modelling, acting, art and fashion design, establishing a clothing label, and is now pursuing an interest in photography. Will inherit £200 million.

Lives in a £2 million penthouse in Vauxhall, packed with antiques which once belonged to his prime minister grandpa. Kingkong77 (talk) 10:13, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Are we talking about one or more earls of Stockton? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.140.57.113 (talk) 13:36, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Was the author P L Travers connected with the area? She used to do storytelling sessions in the Tate Library in Vauxhall in the 1980s. Zagubov (talk) 19:25, 19 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Any such additions need a reference to a reliable source, such as a book. See WP:V.  Chzz  ► 23:57, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Better SIS Building Photo
Suggest the existing photo of the SIS building be replaced with a pointer to the photo used on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_Intelligence_Service. Far less muddy photo. 18:36, 3 March 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.123.51.6 (talk)
 * I agree, and changed it . Next time, it's probably best just to make the change (WP:BOLD), instead of waiting years for someone to happen to come along.  Chzz  ► 23:56, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

one o'clock club
This needs to be explained. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.140.57.113 (talk • contribs) 13:33, 2 July 2009
 * As best I can work out, it's a Day care thing, so I added a link. It needs better referencing.  Chzz  ► 00:02, 30 July 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Vauxhall


text: Talk:Waddon

title: Talk:Waddon


text:
Talk:Walthamstow

North or East?
I'm not happy with........

''There has been much dispute as to whether Walthamstow should be classified as being located in East London or North London[citation needed], as although it carries the E17 postcode, it has many of the characteristics of being situated in the North. Judging by maps of London, it is actually further north than other boroughs that carry the N_ postcode - namely Hackney. .''

....now we all know that Hackney has an E8 postcode, and Homerton E9... it's only Stoke Newington and Stamford Hill that have the N16. It is quite clear that Walthamstow is "East London" so can we please delete this ?? --IsarSteve 23:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

P.S. could somebody explain what  many of the characteristics of being situated in the North means.

 * Reworded it. It was certainly discussed amongst non-Walthamstow people whether it should be part of North London, but the River Lea boundary qualifies it as East London, it's part of Essex not Middlesex. ByteofKnowledge 19:46, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Walthamstow was originally in the abandoned NE sector of the London postal district, as was Hackney. I still don't think postcodes really decide if a place is East or North London. Also, having been part of Middlesex is not really a deciding factor of 'northness', Stepney and Bethnal Green were in Middlesex and certainly would only be considered north London in the sense of not south of the river. These locations are all relative to some other place really. MRSC • Talk 09:10, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there's any doubt from the people who were born here that this is east London Jannahred (talk) 00:20, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Walthamstow is in North East London and should be shown as such. The reference point isn't whether residents think they are in East London, nor what the post code it is it is where it sits on a compass.

If you were to describe its location to someone who didn't know London at all the best geographical description is to say NE London. This page needs to be changed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by E17phil (talk • contribs) 20:33, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

'E or NE?'

I favour East, I think it has a better case – but there’s no definitive or ‘correct’ answer. We can look at it in terms of area\place and also compass points.

The ‘East’ is an established place\area in the same way as North London and other areas. I don’t think it could be argued that Walthamstow is anything other than ‘East’ in that respect. You rarely hear the NE of London spoken of a place in its own right, it’s typically E or N etc.

In terms of compass points, yes certainly it’s in the NE, but you could also say (less specifically) that it’s the E or the N. Indeed E London (the place) could be described as the NE of London.

There’s no definitive answer but I would add the recently added link to sub-regions intended to support the NE point of view, actually does the reverse and supports the view that Walthamstow is in the E.

East London clearly includes Waltham Forest in the description and supporting information. Maybe challenge that page, rather than Walthamstow? Jonnyspeed20 (talk) 03:26, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Walthamstow market section
In my opinion, the section added by an anon on Walthamstow market should be deleted, or at least radically amended. It reads like an incoherent entry from a tourist brochure and is full of trivia. I'd rather see the opinions of others before taking an axe to it myself. --Lancevortex 10:57, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

The market is important, but I agree that the section is full of trivia and more like a tourist guide. Please edit it down. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 11:16, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Redcountess and I are also working on extending the article with references, which is something it's not so hot on at present. We have a very nice local history book I need to scan a pile of ancient maps and so on from - David Gerard 18:20, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Just had a go at removing some of the bumph from the section on the market and shops. redcountess 18:39, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

 * There is a whole story about the recent redevelopment of the town centre, but as a newcomer to Wikipedia I may not be the person to write it. Main features: 1. The Sainsburys development and the Mall lack architectural merit but are arguably what keeps the street market viable. 2. Walthamstow Town Square, designed by Building Design Partnership, see analysis document from CABE 3. The original proposal for the corner development was intended to be a large modern library . In March 2004 the site was cleared but in October the same year the council decided not to proceed with the new library and consequently, not to proceed with plans for a performing arts centre in the existing library building. . After this surprise climbdown the site has been left flattened and the council remain undecided.  4. The old library building was successfully refurbished and extended. ProfDEH (talk) 21:38, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

The market is open 5 days a week, not 6, being closed sunday and monday. Jannahred (talk) 21:11, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Ok I waited for a response and as there was non, I edited the article myself, hope that's ok! --Jannahred (talk) 22:59, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Location
What is the policy behind the 'location', in particular the GPS coordinates. The numbers given are way down next to Leyton Orient football ground, hardly central for Waltham Forest, and not even in Walthamstow. The Town Hall be a better bet for marking the town's location, at approximately 51.591000,-0.013500 (sitting five time zones away using Google Maps). ByteofKnowledge 13:43, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

 * No objections so I changed it to the above suggested location. ByteofKnowledge 20:00, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Meridian
Also on the subject of location, perhaps a note about the meridian plaque on Wood Street would be a good addition if it is still there. I think it is approximately at 51.583500 n, 0 w. ByteofKnowledge 13:49, 29 December 2006 (UTC).

 * I see it less than 6 months ago, so I assume it is still there. (Unsigned, Spiderpop)

Sure I seen one on Forest Road past the Wood Street opening going towards Woodford, between 1 to 2 months ago, not sure about Wood Street Jannahred (talk) 00:24, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Notable residents
I had never heard of Lethal Bizzle so I looked him up. He is a rap artist and judging by 425,000 results on Google clearly well known. Just shows. I put the Telegraph reference in, but it's just an opinion piece, if anyone thinks that is inappropriate feel free to delete it or move it here. There is a response to David Cameron's comments about LB here ProfDEH (talk) 14:11, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Maybe this section needs splitting into properly notable and also-rans. Who is David Tibet for example? Yes he is on Wikipedia, but try a Google search. It turns out "Tibet is the guiding force of paramusical Christian Apocalyptic group CURRENT NINETY THREE". Just not in the same league as the true notables on the list: Disraeli, William Morris, Vivian Stanshall. The article previously had a media section and I suggest that is needed for the footballers, bass players and soap actors? ProfDEH (talk) 07:58, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Notability is always a bugbear - but it should at least be someone 'most' people would have heard of; and say to themselves 'yes, a former prime minister - that is notable' ... The relative lack of notability in the linked article can be dealt with by ing the article.
 * For some other boroughs, there's been a move towards a centralised list that can be better controlled for notability and the individuals link to the district actually being referenced to some independent source - see List of people from Southwark for what is probably the best example. Those lists are divided by arena of notability - so, politicians are separate from RAP artists! HTH Kbthompson (talk) 09:46, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * There's an unsorted - and unref'd list at List of people from Waltham Forest. Kbthompson (talk) 09:50, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

How long is the market?
Traditionally the market is a mile long, but that is not an accurate measurement. The Ordnance Survey map has a 1 km grid and the market street, measured against the grid, is about 1.1 km (0.68 miles). User:Northmetpit changed the figure from 1.2 km to 0.56km which does not see right. Does anyone have an accurate way of measuring? ProfDEH (talk) 19:22, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

 * The market doesn't quite extend to the ends of the High Street. Measuring it using Google Earth I make it 0.9 - 0.95 km. I would suggest rounding it up to 1km. It's certainly no longer than that. Lancevortex (talk) 12:23, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe the market would extend to the ends, if there were enough stalls, this is surely something that will alter according to whether more people apply for or give up their stalls and therefore how can you only give one measurement? Jannahred (talk) 21:16, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

 * It's about 1km, surely that's accurate enough? Even if, at some unspecified time in the future, it stretches to the ends, it's still going to be about 1km give or take a few tens of metres. Lancevortex (talk) 14:42, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I think that we should not have those mini stalls in the market. Please comment? comment added by Zyree (talk

Walthamstow in film and television
The entries in this section strike me as being particularly un-noteworthy. Are they worth keeping? Lancevortex (talk) 14:44, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, useless trivia - contrary to Wiki guidelines. It's not as if Walthamstow was a particularly popular location for filming. ProfDEH (talk) 08:31, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I decided to be bold and have deleted the entire section. Lancevortex (talk) 10:40, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

HHhhmm did we get a choice??? I think it's usual to add these to the piece, and maybe partly so people can look out for those things. I have been reading this page as I used to live in this area, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harringay#Historical_outline, I prefer the way it's done to our area, seems more well thought out and researched. Maybe it's been going longer —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jannahred (talk • contribs) 00:28, 10 November 2008 (UTC) I forgot to sign the last comment Jannahred (talk) 00:33, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Date of incorporation
The article notes 1926 as being the date of incorporation as a municipal borough - the date is 1929 as referenced in the 8th edition of the Borough Official Guide, by George Bosworth, published by the Council in 1935. Mikeya (talk) 05:21, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

 * Corrected. Youngs gives it as 1926 (used as a source for Vision of Britain), but it appears the charter was delayed until 1929 because of action by the council in the General Strike. MRSC (talk) 09:03, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Does this article need a gallery?
The article is a bit of a mess, maybe I will try to edit the text a bit over the holiday and try to find some better images to replace the ones that look like they were taken on a Nokia brickphone circe 2000. It might be a good idea too, to remove the gallery altogether and just have images that relate to the text. I think that would be in line with guidelines. And while I'm at it, I made all the images a standard thumb size i.e. no pixel size specified, so they all line up nicely but the actual size is controlled by the user's preference. I'm not sure which is right but having some of each wasn't working. Views? ProfDEH (talk) 19:43, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Merge Discussion

 * Merging Upper Walthamstow into Walthamstow:The only source on Upper Walthamstow currently is for the OS grid reference, it reads like WP:NOTTRAVEL and wasn't adding anything not covered in the main Walthamstow article. It seems unlikely that there is any WP:SIGCOV of Upper Walthamstow specifically that isn't about Walthamstow in general unlike say, The Village or Wood St each of which are entities in their own right. Redirecting to Walthamstow would make make it easier to maintain NPOV encyclopaedic coverage. --Paul ❬talk❭ 11:01, 14 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Support: The area is clearly part of Walthamstow and lacks any distinguishing features that warrant separate treatment. As far as I can see the article contains no useful information. ProfDEH (talk) 12:05, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've gone ahead with an RD since there wasn't much to be copied over. --Paul ❬talk❭ 09:17, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Waltham Forest not Essex
Walthamstow is in London and Waltham Forest. Having Essex in the first sentence is misleading and confusing. I have moved the historic areas to the second paragraph (as with Leyton, Leytonstone, Wanstead and Chingford). An editor is obsessed with having historic Essex in the first sentence of the lede... let's stick with the simplest and current: London + Borough. Then have a whole paragraph on the history? We wouldn't open an article on Soho with "Henry VII's hunting park in Lundenwic, in the historic county of Middlesex" when it is obviously an area of the West End of London that adjoins Oxford Street and China Town Jonnyspeed20 (talk) 20:49, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

User:PlatinumClipper96 Please discuss your persistent edits to delete the London Borough and insert HC of Essex. This talk topic has been open since August. Jonnyspeed20 (talk) 18:58, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

 * Jonnyspeed20, how was I supposed to have been aware of this talk page topic? You didn't ping me - your only reference to me was describing me as "an editor". You are fully aware that I do not "delete the London Borough", yet you keep claiming in edit summaries and in talk pages that this is the case. In fact, my edits to this article mention the borough, and the fact Walthamstow is its administrative centre, first thing in a lead paragraph. I have discussed my edits with you on multiple talk pages - we're going round in circles. My edits are in full compliance with the guidelines. Whether the historic counties have been abolished or not, saying a place "is in the ceremonial county of x and the historic county of x" is not incorrect or misleading. It certainly isn't "vandalism", as you keep claiming on edit summaries. I ask that you stop this. As for the points you made above, mentioning a place's location within a historic county is nothing like referring to Soho as being part of a "hunting park in Lundenwic". Bearing in mind the fact London is split between historic counties, I fail to see how mentioning this alongside the fact it is in east London (which is mentioned first, before any other info), and the ceremonial county of Greater London which is used for present local government purposes, is "misleading and confusing". PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 15:03, 28 September 2021 (UTC)

 * No progress here. Will reinstate the info removed by Jonnyspeed20. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 19:03, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

 * When HC is in the information box, it can be considered important. Maybe you can find a way of not deleting the London Borough? 86.14.189.55 (talk) 09:18, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

 * That's not how it works - the info is important enough for the guidelines to say historic county info should be mentioned. Whether it's an infobox parameter or not is irrelevant. The borough was not deleted. PlatinumClipper96 (talk) 13:45, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

Town, district, suburb
please could you explain why you are changing all mention of Walthamstow as a town to be either a district or suburb? It would be useful to understand the reasoning. Please could you also use edit summaries to describe what you are doing. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 17:59, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

 * You have reverted the same edit back in again. This is edit warring. Please self revert and discuss here. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:33, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi Sirfurboy, the reason I changed Walthamstow from being a town to a suburb is because it really is a suburb of London. It's no longer a settlement of its right anymore and many mentions of Walthamstow in the media like on videos or articles etc mention it as either a "suburb" or a "neighbourhood".
 * I also think it's because Walthamstow in London is in the city's postcode, so I thought as it is part of the city boundaries then it will just be a London suburb unlike other Eastern Greater London areas like Romford or Ilford. LDas12345 (talk) 17:52, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for replying. We would need to follow what sources say about Walthamstow, so if they are all calling it a suburb, that would be a good reason to make the change. However I don't see this. Some sources may speak of it as a suburb, others as an urban area, but actually there are a lot calling it a town. Most, I believe. Take newspapers for instance. Here is one I found at random: It will draw together existing services, such as the X140 and X26 that serve Heathrow, with proposed new orbital routes linking town centres such as Harrow and North Finchley, and North Finchley with Walthamstow - Evening Standard 28 March 2023. Which would all be very well, but is it cherry picked? No. A search on Newspapers.com shows thousands of mentions of Walthamstow town every year. A lot are not relevant, but it is easy to show that Walthamstow is very commonly referred to as a town. It is referred to this way in books too, and then you have publications like this, a consultation report specifically talking about the town centre. London is made up of many such towns. Walthamstow has a town hall (now called Waltham Forest Town Hall) and town centre. The district is Waltham Forest, and post towns do not map exactly to towns. I think town is best, suburb and district are wrong, urban area is too vague. This will apply for many other of London's towns. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 19:15, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
 * There are no articles or media videos that state Walthamstow as a "town" of Greater London but either as a suburb or a neighbourhood. LDas12345 (talk) 10:07, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I literally just gave you one. Here are more.       and I could go on and on. I also found thousands of newspaper articles referring to it as a town. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 10:52, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Also, Google research is not brilliant for lots of reasons, but all the same, I googled to get a rough count of pages that have "Walthamstow is a town" on them whilst attempting to remove wikipedia clones by excluding our wording. That only gives about 866 hits, and, to be clear, many of those would be self published sources. It is indicative though. Especially when compared with the search for "Walthamstow is a suburb". Five hits and one of those is for a location in Kabul. Meanwhile "Walthamstow is a neighbourhood"  yields just 4 hits and one of those actually says "Walthamstow is a neighbourhood orientated town". Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 11:06, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

Citations needed
Is it necessary to note that a citation is needed when the citation is on the page referenced? For example,

 * Steve Bell (cartoonist), cartoonist, was born in Walthamstow[citation needed]

You can verify info on Steve Bell by clicking on "Steve Bell (cartoonist)" and that will erase the need for the citation. If the external citation page changes, then every Wikipedia page that uses the reference will also need to change, which isn't ideal. StewE17 (talk) 16:02, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

 * Great question. The answer is yes, it is, because Wikipedia is never a source for Wikipedia, and we cannot rely on that information remaining on that page. If it is found to be in error there, we would then have no way to find and fix pages relying on errant information. However, where the information on the linked page is itself backed by a suitable citation, you can certainly copy the citation from that page to this one (ideally stating in the edsum you are doing that per WP:COPYWITHIN). Personally I always try to look at linked pages before adding a citation needed template to do just that. Often the linked pages don't source the information either so the citation needed goes on. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:08, 9 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Note also that in this example, Steve Bell's bio is referenced to an article in the Guardian which does not actually tell us where he was born, so it is unreferenced there too. I have added a citation needed template. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 16:14, 9 March 2024 (UTC)

Unnecessary?
Sirfurboy, how is it unnecessary to mention the diversity of Walthamstow? it's true that East London is ethnically diverse. 2A02:C7C:B459:F500:3C2B:C231:C7EF:D921 (talk) 20:35, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

 * It is unnecessary because it is inserted into a paragraph that already describes the ethnic mix. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 20:57, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Walthamstow


text:
Talk:Wallington, London

Education
Can someone make a table with links to the school wiki pages and their external pages? there is:  Wilson's School and | Wilson's School  Wallington County Grammar School and | Wallington County Grammar School  there is also | Wallington Girls school which doesn't seem to have a wiki  i think The John Fisher School is in south wallington but i'm not certain | John Fisher   there is also Stanley Park High School which i can't find a website for,it might have the ending ".sutton.sch.uk/"

Fwed66 14:35, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

The John Fisher School is situated in Purley, London not Wallington —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.10.13.164 (talk) 07:11, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Stanley Park High School is also not situated in Wallington, but in Carshalton. Harryj2198 (talk) 07:05, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Transport
Can we consider pruning the transport section a bit? The tram section in particular seems irrelevant - Wallington does not have a tram service, and hasn't had for a long time! And directions to the nearest tram stop don't feel like encyclopaedic content. The same comments apply, perhaps even more so, to the underground. Bagunceiro (talk) 09:57, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Roads-in handy
The Mead, Link Lane to get to Bandon Hill Primary/Nursery School

Wordsworth Road - the Playgroup 01

Sandy Lane North - to get to Playgroup 02

Stafford Road - to St.Elfages Church, The Scouts team, Nursery and a number of other places —Preceding unsigned comment added by Macramike (talk • contribs) 21:04, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: uncontested move. DrKiernan (talk) 10:23, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Wallington, London → Wallington, Greater London – Wallington is still considered by all residents to be in Surrey, but since this doesn't seem a feasible address for it any more, can we at least have it listed as Greater London, as it is NOT in inner London. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayneswikiwiki (talk • contribs) 16:44, 29 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
 * Reverted per WikiProject London/Naming conventions. As this affects all districts of London requiring disambiguation, to centralise discussion direct any discussion to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject London. MRSC (talk) 11:29, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

 * I am pretty sure that not every single person who lives in Wallington calls it Surrey. Also, you seem to misunderstand the difference between Outer London and Greater London. Inner London + Outer London = Greater London. Therefore, Westminster, Waterloo, Brixton, Croydon and Wallington are all in Greater London but Westminster, Waterloo and Brixton are Inner London and Croydon and Wallington are Outer London. Justgravy (talk) 14:25, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Notable People: Mike Brewer?
According to my dad who grew up there, Mike Brewer (notable for the TV Show Wheeler Dealers) lived and worked in wallington possibly as late as the 90s (my dad said he used to see him), apparently worked at a small car dealer (CMW), this is confirmed by the fact he said he "worked at a small forecourt in south london" in the Mk1 Shogun episode and the intro has a picture of him in a car outside a garage, which me and my dad tracked down, the garage is still there but a different colour now.

I do not see Mike Brewer on the list of notable people and would like to add him, i however need some reliable sources for this as i doubt even the evidence i have isn't enough and my "my dad says so" isn't good enough. OGWFP (talk) 20:29, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wallington, London


text:
Talk:Walworth

Ruskin
I don't think Ruskin ever lived there - Ruskin has a school named after him (although it is just in Camberwell) and a road but I think they may be a bequest. I also think that Michael Caine is Rotherhithe. Secretlondon 14:21, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Ruskin did have local connections in Walworth; although he lived in Camberwell. The attribution of Michael Caine being 'from' Rotherhithe is that he was born in the maternity hospital, St Olave's Hospital, there. His family and himself came from and lived in Walworth. 79.75.2.246 (talk) 02:02, 24 April 2008 (UTC)(Tony S)

John Wemmick
The fictional character John Wemmick of Dickens' Great Expectations is listed here as an "ex-resident." As he is a character of fiction, however, he never lived there. Personally, I don't think fictional characters belong in such sections. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.45.197.169 (talk) 20:06, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Pronounciation
Please add local pronounciation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.41.131.16 (talk) 13:02, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Walworth


text:
Talk:Wandsworth

question
So where if the "dodgy end" of wandsworth? should it be mentioned? 38.124.250.218 (talk) 18:59, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Confusion between borough and area
I think there are quite a few parts of this article that confuse the borough of Wandsworth with the small town of Wandsworth. For example, I recall the Evening Standard listed the whole borough (including the Battersea and Putney) when it listed it as third in the country for £1m+ property sales. I rather doubt there is that much £1m+ property in the area I would call Wandsworth, the Tonsleys may be expensive, but they are not that expensive. Of course, establishing this is made much harder because there are no citations. Can anyone add citations for some of these?Gaffertape (talk) 16:45, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

For this reason I am deleting the reference to the new US embassy. This is planned for the Nine Elms area, which is in the Borough - but miles from the town of wandsworth.--Wickifrank (talk) 02:17, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Weird emphasis
Was this article written by an estate agent? The breathless references to property values... the famous residents... the references to "excellent views across the Thames". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.23.61.208 (talk) 09:51, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Name
There might be an argument for changing this to Wandsworth Town under common usage. MRSC (talk) 13:07, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Proposed merger of Sir James Barrie Primary School

 * The article doesn't have a section on schools, so this isn't really an option.  Brookie :) { - he's in the building somewhere!}  (Whisper...) 14:07, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Wandsworth


text:
Talk:Wanstead

Suburban town
All the article for local places use 'suburban town'. This edit keeps getting reverted. To avoid edit warring, what is the support for (a) Suburban Town vs (b) District. E11 could be a district, though that includes both Leytonstone and Wanstead. Wanstead is not defined as a district by the police, government or postal service 86.14.189.55 (talk) 16:22, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

Nightingale
I too thought Nightingale Primary school was in Wanstead, but it is actually between Wanstead and South Woodford, and its address is South Woodford too, so I'm going to remove the mention of Nightengale from the page. Loserdog 3000  20:16, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

You are right that Nightingale has an E18 postcode but most people in Wanstead regard the school as being there. I think one side of the building is in E18 and the other E11. By your definition, you should remove Snaresbrook primary in Medow walk which you will find is also in E18. Both of these school are infact the only non denominational primary schools for the children of Wanstead. Paul

Snaresbrook Primary school is in Snaresbrook, not Wanstead. Yes, there are only two non-denominational Primary schools in Wanstead, but they are Aldersbrook Primary and Nightingale Primary. It should be noted that Aldersbrook is in the E12 post code area. Everything in the Aldersbrook area has an E12 post code, yet is still Wanstead. Nightingale was always considered to be a Wanstead primary school, regardless the post code it has. Some of Wanstead falls under the E18 post code, but is still Wanstead (this applies to Nightingale School), other parts of Wanstead fall under the E12 post code (mostly a Manor Park post code), yet are still in Wanstead. Parts of Leytonstone come under the E11 post code, but are not considered to be Wanstead (Leytonstone Tube station, for example). You can't determine which area a school falls under simply by its post code. What matters is the catchment area. For Nightingale Primary, the catchment area is Wanstead. Snaresbrook's catchment area is Snaresbrook and South Woodford.

You didn't mention the Grotto in Wanstead Park!

I guess you should mention something about all the blacks who live there now.Ldybagt2010 (talk) 12:05, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Nightingale Primary School is in Wanstead, according to the historical parish boundary, as mapped here: http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/unit/10248486/boundary . Same applies to Snaresbrook Primary School: Snaresbrook is historically within the parish of Wanstead. In other words, don't take modern postal districts as gospel! Sdoerr (talk) 21:31, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Map
Request for a map? Like the rest of east London places have. Thanks 84.69.181.117 13:03, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Robert Dudley
Under 'Notable residents' it says "Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester and favourite of Elizabeth I, had a house here, in which he died..." However, the article on Dudley says "On his way to Buxton in Derbyshire to take the baths, he died at Cornbury Park near Oxford...". Which is correct (both articles agree on the date, 4 September 1588)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.156.164.3 (talk) 14:24, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The Dictionary of National Biography (http://www.oxforddnb.com/view/article/8160) agrees that he died "at Cornbury House in the forest of Wychwood, Oxfordshire". Sdoerr (talk) 21:37, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Stations
Can someone sort out the various stations further than I have. Jackiespeel (talk) 13:27, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wanstead


text:
Robert Grosseteste

Robert Grosseteste (Robertus Grosseteste; c. 1168-70 – 8 or 9 October 1253), also known as Robert Greathead or Robert of Lincoln, was an English statesman, scholastic philosopher, theologian, scientist and Bishop of Lincoln. He was born of humble parents in Suffolk (according to the early 14th-century chronicler Nicholas Trevet), but the associations with the village of Stradbroke is a post-medieval tradition. Upon his death, he was revered as a saint in England, but attempts to procure a formal canonisation failed. A. C. Crombie called him "the real founder of the tradition of scientific thought in medieval Oxford, and in some ways, of the modern English intellectual tradition". As a theologian, however, he contributed to increasing hostility to Jews and Judaism, and spread the accusation that Jews had purposefully suppressed prophetic knowledge of the coming of Christ, through his translation of the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs.

Scholarly career
There is very little direct evidence about Grosseteste's education. He may have received a liberal arts education at Lincoln and appears as a witness for the bishop of Lincoln at in the late 1180s or early 1190s, where he is identified as a Master. From about 1195 he was active in the household of the Bishop of Hereford William de Vere; a letter from Gerald of Wales to William extolling Grosseteste's skills survives. Grosseteste appears not to have received any form of benefice from Bishop William, and on the latter's death in 1198, the household dissolved. There is no evidence that Grosseteste held any position in the households of William's successors, but it is possible that he was supported by Hugh Foliot, Archdeacon of Shropshire in the north of Hereford diocese. Grosseteste's movements are not clear in the next two decades or so, but he seems to have spent some time in France during the years of the interdict over England (1208–14), and acted as a papal judge-delegate, in company with Hugh Foliot, in or around 1216.

By 1225, he had gained the benefice of Abbotsley in the diocese of Lincoln, by which time he was a deacon. On that period in his life, scholarship is divided. Some historians argue that he began his teaching career in theology at Oxford in this year, whereas others have more recently argued that he used the income of his ecclesiastical post to support studies in theology at the University of Paris. However, there is clear evidence that by 1229/30 he was teaching at Oxford, but on the periphery as the lector in theology to the Franciscans, who had established a convent in Oxford about 1224. He remained in this post until March 1235.

Grosseteste may also have been appointed Chancellor of the University of Oxford. However, the evidence for this comes from a late thirteenth century anecdote whose main claim is that Grosseteste was in fact entitled the master of students (magister scholarium).

At the same time he began lecturing in theology at Oxford, Hugh of Wells, Bishop of Lincoln, appointed him as Archdeacon of Leicester, and he also gained a prebend that made him a canon in Lincoln Cathedral. However, after a severe illness in 1232, he resigned all his benefices (Abbotsley and Leicester), but retained his prebend. His reasons were due to changing attitudes about the plurality of benefices (holding more than one ecclesiastical position simultaneously), and after seeking advice from the papal court, he tendered his resignations. The angry response of his friends and colleagues to his resignations took him by surprise and he complained to his sister and to his closest friend, the Franciscan Adam Marsh, that his intentions had been misunderstood.

As a master of the sacred page (manuscripts of theology in Latin), Grosseteste trained the Franciscans in the standard curriculum of university theology. The Franciscan Roger Bacon was his most famous disciple, and acquired an interest in the scientific method from him. Grosseteste lectured on the Psalter, the Pauline epistles, Genesis (at least the creation account), and possibly on Isaiah, Daniel and Sirach. He also led disputations on such subjects as the theological nature of truth and the efficacy of the Mosaic Law. Grosseteste also preached at the university and appears to have been called to preach within the diocese as well. He collected some of those sermons, along with some short notes and reflections, not long after he left Oxford; this is now known as his Dicta. His theological writings reveal a continual interest in the natural world as a major resource for theological reflection and an ability to read Greek sources (if he ever learned Hebrew, it would be not until he became bishop of Lincoln). His theological index (tabula distinctionum) reveals the breadth of his learning and his desire to communicate it in a systematic manner. However, Grosseteste's own style was far more unstructured than many of his scholastic contemporaries, and his writings reverberate with his own personal views and outlooks.

Bishop of Lincoln
In February 1235, Hugh of Wells died, and the canons of Lincoln cathedral met to elect his successor. They soon were at a deadlock and could not reach a majority. Fearing that the election would be taken out of their hands, they settled on a compromise candidate, Grosseteste. He was consecrated in June of that same year at Reading. He instituted an innovative programme of visitation, a procedure normally reserved for the inspection of monasteries. Grosseteste expanded it to include all the deaneries in each archdeaconry of his vast diocese. The scheme brought him into conflict with more than one privileged corporation, in particular with his own chapter, who disputed his claim to exercise the right of visitation over their community. The dispute raged hotly from 1239 to 1245, with the chapter launching an appeal to the papacy. In 1245, whilst attending the First Council of Lyon, the papal court ruled in favour of Grosseteste. Dean William de Thornaco is recorded as being suspended by Bishop Grosseteste in 1239, together with precentor and subdean in relation to the aforementioned matter.

In ecclesiastical politics the bishop belonged to the school of Thomas Becket. His zeal for reform led him to advance, on behalf of the courts, Christian claims which it was impossible that the secular power should admit. He twice incurred a rebuke from Henry III upon this subject although it was left for Edward I to settle the question of principle in favour of the state. The devotion of Grosseteste to the hierarchical theories of his age is attested by his correspondence with his chapter and the king. Against the former he upheld the prerogative of the bishops; against the latter he asserted that it was impossible for a bishop to disregard the commands of the Holy See. Where the liberties of the national church came into conflict with the assertions of Rome he stood by his own countrymen.

Thus in 1238 he demanded that the King should release certain Oxford scholars who had assaulted the legate Otto Candidus. But at least up to the year 1247 he submitted patiently to papal encroachments, contenting himself with the protection (by a special papal privilege) of his own diocese from alien clerks. Of royal exactions he was more impatient; and, after the retirement of Archbishop (Saint) Edmund, constituted himself the spokesman of the clerical estate in the Great Council.

In 1244 he sat on a committee which was empanelled to consider a demand for a subsidy. The committee rejected the demand, and Grosseteste foiled an attempt on the king's part to separate the clergy from the baronage. "It is written", the bishop said, "that united we stand and divided we fall."

The last years of Grosseteste's life and episcopacy were embroiled in a conflict with the new Archbishop of Canterbury, Boniface of Savoy. In 1250, he travelled to the papal court, where one of the cardinals read his complaints at an audience with Innocent IV. He claimed not only that Boniface was threatening the health of the church but also that the pope was just as guilty for not reining him in and that that was symptomatic of the current malaise of the entire church. Most observers noted the personal animus between the bishop of Lincoln and the pope, but it did not stop the pope from agreeing to most of Grosseteste's demands about the way the English church ought to function.

Grosseteste continued to keep a watchful eye on ecclesiastical events. In 1251 he protested against a papal mandate enjoining the English clergy to pay Henry III one-tenth of their revenues for a crusade; and called attention to the fact that, under the system of provisions, a sum of 70,000 marks was annually drawn from England by the alien nominees of Rome. In 1253, upon being commanded to provide in his own diocese for a papal nephew, he wrote a letter of expostulation and refusal, not to the pope himself but to the commissioner, Master Innocent, through whom he received the mandate. The text of the remonstrance, as given in the Burton Annals and in Matthew Paris, has possibly been altered by a forger who had less respect than Grosseteste for the papacy. The language is more violent than that which the bishop elsewhere employs. But the general argument, that the papacy may command obedience only so far as its commands are consonant with the teaching of Christ and the apostles, is only what should be expected from an ecclesiastical reformer of Grosseteste's time. There is much more reason for suspecting the letter addressed "to the nobles of England, the citizens of London, and the community of the whole realm", in which Grosseteste is represented as denouncing in unmeasured terms papal finance in all its branches. But even in this case allowance must be made for the difference between modern and medieval standards of decorum.

Grosseteste numbered among his most intimate friends the Franciscan teacher, Adam Marsh. Through Adam he came into close relations with Simon de Montfort. From the Franciscan's letters it appears that the earl had studied a political tract by Grosseteste on the difference between a monarchy and a tyranny and that he embraced with enthusiasm the bishop's projects of ecclesiastical reform. Their alliance began as early as 1239, when Grosseteste exerted himself to bring about a reconciliation between the king and the earl. But there is no reason to suppose that the political ideas of Montfort had matured before the death of Grosseteste; nor did Grosseteste busy himself overmuch with secular politics, except insofar as they touched the interest of the Church. Grosseteste realised that the misrule of Henry III and his unprincipled compact with the papacy largely accounted for the degeneracy of the English hierarchy and the laxity of ecclesiastical discipline. But he can hardly be termed a constitutionalist.

Hostility to Jews and Judaism
Grosseteste has a mixed reputation among scholars regarding his attitudes to Jews and Judaism. He was certainly hostile to usury, but had an interest in the relationship between the Old Law and the New. He intervened when Simon de Montfort expelled the Jews of Leicester, but his views on the expulsion itself are unclear.

He appears to have become more hostile to Jews in his later life, and this can be traced through his theological investigations. Earlier in his life, while lecturing in Oxford, he analysed the Psalms and Paul's Letter to the Galatians. He concluded that the Jews are wedded to the past and their lineage, rather than a search for salvation, following the work of Chrysostom. In his analysis of Galatians and De cessatione legalium, citing Jerome he sets out his understanding of the status of the Old Law, and concludes that it had been "made void" by the resurrection of Christ, and that the Jewish faith was therefore heretical and blasphemous. He followed the view of Augustine and Innocent III, who had reiterated these in recent Papal Bulls that the Jews were guilty for death of Christ, but just as Cain, who had killed Abel, was allowed to live as punishment, so Jews were to live in exile and servitude as punishment for their sin. Jews were not to be allowed to live in luxury from the proceeds of usury, and any Christian ruler allowing or the "oppression" of Christians through usury would be share the Jews' punishment in the next life. Nevertheless, as Bishop, he seems to have taken few practical actions against Jews, in contrast, for example to his associate Walter de Cantilupe. One concrete example can be found in the mid 1240s, where in a letter to his archdeacons, he warns them among many other matters, that they were ensure that Christians and Jews do not associate.

In 1242, Grosseteste translated the Greek text Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs into Latin. It was among his most influential works, being cited by Vincent de Beauvais, Bonaventure and Roger Bacon. The book describes the dying words of Jacob's sons, in which they foretell the coming of Christ as the Messiah. The text appeared to prove that Jews had been told of the Messiah, and had written the prophecies down, but had then deliberately ignored and suppressed them. Matthew Paris for instance made this interpretation explicit, saying Grosseteste had exposed the deceit of the Jews to their "great confusion".

Grosseteste began to study Hebrew as well as Greek, and although he may have lacked proficiency, spent considerable effort attempting to better understand the Psalms in their original language. His goal was to eliminate conflict between Christians and Jews, or to "confirm the faithful and convert the infidel". The evolution of Grosseteste's views from the Augustinian view of Jewish ignorance and punishment to one where Jews appeared to be stubbornly and knowingly rejecting Christ, was part of a wider shift that was taking place, leading to greater suspicion and intolerance.

Science
Grosseteste is best known as an original thinker for his work concerning what would today be called science or the scientific method.

It has been argued that Grosseteste played a key role in the development of the scientific method. Grosseteste did introduce to the Latin West the notion of controlled experiment and related it to demonstrative science, as one among many ways of arriving at such knowledge. Although Grosseteste did not always follow his own advice during his investigations, his work is seen as instrumental in the history of the development of the Western scientific tradition.

Grosseteste was the first of the Scholastics to fully understand Aristotle's vision of the dual path of scientific reasoning: generalising from particular observations into a universal law, and then back again from universal laws to prediction of particulars. Therefore, scientific knowledge was demonstrative knowledge of things through their causes. Grosseteste called this "resolution and composition". So, for example, looking at the particulars of the moon, it is possible to arrive at universal laws about nature. Conversely once these universal laws are understood, it is possible to make predictions and observations about other objects besides the moon. Grosseteste said further that both paths should be verified through experimentation to verify the principles involved. These ideas established a tradition that carried forward to Padua and Galileo Galilei in the 17th century.

As important as "resolution and composition" would become to the future of Western scientific tradition, more important to his own time was his idea of the subordination of the sciences. For example, when looking at geometry and optics, optics is subordinate to geometry because optics depends on geometry, and so optics was a prime example of a subalternate science. Thus Grosseteste concluded, following much of what Boethius had argued, that mathematics was the highest of all sciences, and the basis for all others, since every natural science ultimately depended on mathematics. He supported this conclusion by looking at light, which he believed to be the "first form" of all things, the source of all generation and motion (approximately what is now known as biology and physics). Hence, since light could be reduced to lines and points, and thus fully explained in the realm of mathematics, mathematics was the highest order of the sciences.

Grosseteste had read several important works translated from Greek via Arabic, including De Speculis by Euclid (and likely also De Visu), Meteorologica and De Generatione Animalium by Aristotle, and directly from Arabic, such as Liber Canonis by Avicenna. He likely also read al-Kindi's De Aspectibus. Drawing on these sources, Grosseteste produced important work in optics, which would be continued by Roger Bacon, who often mentioned his indebtedness to him although there is no proof that the two ever met. In De Iride Grosseteste writes:

"This part of optics, when well understood, shows us how we may make things a very long distance off appear as if placed very close, and large near things appear very small, and how we may make small things placed at a distance appear any size we want, so that it may be possible for us to read the smallest letters at incredible distances, or to count sand, or seed, or any sort of minute objects."

Editions of the original Latin text may be found in: Die Philosophischen Werke des Robert Grosseteste, Bischofs von Lincoln (Münster i. W., Aschendorff, 1912.), p. 75.

Grosseteste is now believed to have had a very modern understanding of light and colour, which is shown by his scientific treatises De Luce (On Light) and De Colore (On Colour). De Luce explores the nature of light, matter, and the cosmos. He argued that light is an infinitely small particle which was the first form of everything within the universe that multiplied itself indefinitely that resulted in a finite magnitude which was physical matter. Grosseteste described the birth of the Universe in an explosion and the crystallisation of light into matter to form stars and planets in a set of nested spheres around Earth. He also came to the conclusion that, as light dragged the matter of the universe outward and expanded the universe, the density must decrease as the radius increases. Thus, invoking a conservation law centuries before conservation laws became fundamental in modern science. De Luce is the first attempt to describe the heavens and Earth using a single set of physical laws, four centuries before Isaac Newton proposed gravity and seven centuries before the Big Bang theory. In his treatise, De Colore, Robert Grosseteste had defined colour as light incorporated in a diaphanous material. Meaning that colour is associated with the interaction of light and materials and that it is a product of variations in the qualities of both the light and the medium. De Colore was Grosseteste's replacement of Aristotle's linear colour arrangement between black and white to a three dimensional one based on the aforementioned aspects with 7 different directions of colour from white to black with infinite variations in intensity.

The 'Ordered Universe' collaboration of scientists and historians at Durham University studying medieval science regard him as a key figure in showing that pre-Renaissance science was far more advanced than previously thought.

Supposed errors in his account have been found to be based on corrupt late copies of his essay on the nature of light, written in about 1225 (De Luce). In 2014 Grosseteste's 1225 treatise De Luce was translated from Latin and interpreted by an interdisciplinary project led by Durham University, that included Latinists, philologists, medieval historians, physicists and cosmologists.

Literary and poetic works
Grosseteste wrote a number of early works in Latin and French whilst he was a clerk, including one called Chateau d'amour, an allegorical poem on the creation of the world and Christian redemption, as well as several other poems and texts on household management and courtly etiquette. He also wrote a number of theological works including the influential Hexaëmeron in the 1230s. He was also a highly regarded author of manuals on pastoral care and produced treatises that dealt with a variety of penitential contexts, including monasteries, the parish and a bishop's household.

In 1242, having been introduced to the Greek work by John of Basingstoke, Grosseteste had the Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs brought from Greece and translated it with help of a clerk of St Albans: "for the strengthening of the christian [sic] faith and the confusion of the Jews [who were said to have deliberately hidden the book away] ... on account of the manifest prophecies of Christ contained therein."

He also wrote a number of commentaries on Aristotle, including the first in the West of Posterior Analytics, and one on Aristotle's Physics, which has survived as a loose collection of notes or glosses on the text. Moreover, he did a lot of very interesting work on Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite's Celestial Hierarchy: he translated both the text and the scholia from Greek into Latin and wrote a commentary

Death and burial
Grosseteste died on 9 October 1253. He was aged about 80–85.

He is buried in a tomb within his memorial chapel within Lincoln Cathedral. Its dedicatory plaque reads as follows:

After his death, an anecdote of Pope Innocent's death by Matthew Paris, is often mentioned well into the 16th century to the effect that the ghost of Grosseteste visited the Pope in the night and gave him a blow to the heart which killed.

Veneration
Upon his death, he was almost universally revered as a saint in England, with miracles reported at his shrine and pilgrims to it granted an indulgence by the bishop of Lincoln. However, attempts by successive Bishops of Lincoln, the University of Oxford, and Edward I to secure a formal papal canonisation failed. The attempts to have him canonised were unsuccessful because of his opposition to Pope Innocent IV. The reason for this also seems to be because it was rumoured that Grosseteste's ghost was responsible for the death of the Pope.

In most of the modern Anglican Communion, Robert Grosseteste is considered beatified and commemorated on 9 October. Grosseteste is honoured in the Church of England and in the Episcopal Church on 9 October.

Reputation and legacy
Grosseteste was already an elderly man, with an established reputation, when he became a bishop. As an ecclesiastical statesman, he showed the same fiery zeal and versatility of which he had given proof in his academic career; but the general tendency of modern writers has been to exaggerate his political and ecclesiastical services, and to neglect his performance as a scientist, an astrologer, and scholar. The opinion of his own age, as expressed by Matthew Paris and Roger Bacon, was very different. His contemporaries, while admitting the excellence of his intentions as a statesman, lay stress upon his defects of temper and discretion. Grosseteste was known to be somewhat critical towards everyone, and was known to often express his opinions regardless of status. Some of these conflicts involve the King, Abbot of Westminster and Pope Innocent. His morals were high and he recognised that even those of the church could be corrupt and worked to fight against that corruption. But they see in him the pioneer of a literary and scientific movement; not merely a great ecclesiastic who patronised learning in his leisure hours, but the first mathematician and physicist of his age. He anticipated, in these fields of thought, some of the striking ideas to which Roger Bacon subsequently gave a wider currency.

Bishop Grosseteste University in Lincoln is named after Robert Grosseteste. The university provides Initial Teacher Training and academic degrees at all levels. In 2003, it hosted an international conference on Grosseteste in honour of the 750th anniversary of his death.

Grosseteste has been recognised in many ways for his knowledge and contributions to the sciences. He was entered under the section "Scholars and Divines" in John Evelyn's Numismata: A discourse of Medals, entered under the name "Grosthed" listed among others that Evelyn describes as "famous and illustrious". In 2014, The Robert Grosseteste Society has called for a statue to be erected so that he may be recognised for his achievements.

Scientific treaties
From about 1220 to 1235 he wrote a host of scientific treatises including:

 * De sphera. An introductory text on astronomy.
 * De luce. On the "metaphysics of light." (which is the most original work of cosmogony in the Latin West)
 * De accessu et recessu maris. On tides and tidal movements. (although some scholars dispute his authorship)
 * De lineis, angulis et figuris. Mathematical reasoning in the natural sciences.
 * De iride. On the rainbow.
 * De colore. On colour.
 * De colore. On colour.

Editions

 * Versio Caelestis Hierarchiae Pseudo-Dionysii Areopagitae cum scholiis ex Graeco sumptis necnon commentariis notulisque eiusdem Lincolniensis, ed. D. A. Lawell (Corpus Christianorum. Continuatio Mediaevalis 268), Turnhout: Brepols Publishers, 2015 (ISBN 978-2-503-55593-5)
 * Opera I. Expositio in Epistolam sancti Pauli ad Galatas. Glossarum in sancti Pauli Epistolas fragmenta. Tabula, ed. J. McEvoy, L. Rizzerio, R.C. Dales, P.W. Rosemann (Corpus Christianorum. Continuatio Mediaevalis 130), Turnhout: Brepols Publishers, 1995 (ISBN 978-2-503-04301-2)
 * The Greek Commentaries of the Nicomachean Ethics of Aristotle in the Latin Translation of Robert Grosseteste, ed. H Mercken (Corpus Latinum Commentariorum in Aristotelem Graecorum VI), Leiden: Brill, 1973–1991
 * On Light, ed. C Riedl, (Milwaukee, WI, 1942)

Works in translation

 * Mystical theology: The Glosses by Thomas Gallus and the Commentary of Robert Grosseteste on De mystica theologia , ed. J McEvoy, (Paris: Peeters, 2003)
 * On the Six Days of Creation, tr. CFJ Martin, (Oxford, 1996)

title: Robert Grosseteste


text:
Talk:Wapping

Cite sources
If you get involved please remember to cite sources for any material added. Cosmopolitancats 00:15, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Literary and cultural references
I suggest that the play "Wappin’ Wharf - A Frightful Comedy of Pirates" By CHARLES S. BROOKS be included in the list of literary references that Wapping is connected to. http://www.gutenberg.org/files/24914/24914-h/24914-h.htm (142.150.17.243 (talk) 23:21, 16 March 2009 (UTC))

I suggest the book Four Meals and Fourpence be added to the list of literary references for Wapping. The book's author Grace Foakes wrote this as an autobiography - the fine book contains her memories and reflections on her childhood in Wapping @ 1901 - 1925. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ann c white (talk • contribs) 15:54, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

(i fully agree, but the title is in fact "4 meals for 4pence" ...) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.15.69.24 (talk) 04:37, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

The novel The English Monster, by Lloyd Shepherd (2012) is set largely in Wapping. The novel opens in 1585, at Execution Dock. The 1881 Ratcliffe Highway murders are a central thread in the author's dark exploration of Wapping's history over 300 years of English trade. Cambeltown (talk) 00:36, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Notable People
The statement that Cher lived in Wapping is untrue. Her management maintained a property here for publicity purposes, but at the time she was actually living in a hotel in Mayfair. I can't cite concrete resources, unfortunately, but the godmother of her child was quite adamant about it at the time.

Oh, and I'm led to believe that Graham Norton doesn't live here any more - which is good, because I was annoyed at the way he used to stare in when walking his dogs past my house. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiwonko (talk • contribs) 01:11, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Disambiguation
Articles on entities named 'Wapping'--including Wapping Dock, Liverpool and Wapping, London--are not compliant. Searching 'Wapping' wrongly takes you to an individual article.

Create a disambiguation page, list all entities 'Wapping', and take the user there instead.

Jimlue (talk) 21:24, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Publication
Will mention London Docklands Development Corporation .The Future for Wapping A summary. (complementary to Tower Hamlets Draft Borough plan to be deposited early 1983). Jackiespeel (talk) 19:02, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wapping


text:
Talk:Wealdstone

Suggested new sections

 * Facilities e.g. Library, Churches, Community Centres Ceeess 16:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Schools e.g. Sacred Heart, Salvatorian Ceeess 16:14, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wealdstone


text:
Talk:Welling

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Welling. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150419224342/http://www.bexleychronicle.com/wordpress/?p=73 to http://www.bexleychronicle.com/wordpress/?p=73
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130528190239/http://centres.exeter.ac.uk/emrc/publications/Islamophobia_and_Anti-Muslim_Hate_Crime.pdf to http://centres.exeter.ac.uk/emrc/publications/Islamophobia_and_Anti-Muslim_Hate_Crime.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 07:46, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

Kent or Bexley or London, or all three?
Deanb1994, I am not sure why you have deleted the sentence about Welling being in the historic county of Kent. I can see how the sentence in isolation might appear confusing to someone without any knowledge of UK local government, but isn't that an ideal opportunity for you or any editor to improve the article by adding more information? That is the main point of Wikipedia isn't it? It isn't clear if you realise that Welling is and always has been in Kent. The local government changes of the last 150 or so years have merely altered the local government authority, not the historic county. I can see that you have made an edit about the earlier Bexley Municipal Borough so you are doubtless knowlegable about this topic which makes your wiping of the whole sentence even more puzzling. Why not simply add to it or elaborate? The fact that Welling is in Kent (as well as in Bexley and in Greater London), and that faact is not 'history' as you put it, means it has a significant bearing on the town and people today. Why not try to improve the article from that perspective? I do agree though that the muddled use of the term 'county' within various local government reforms has not helped make matters any easier.Roger 8 Roger (talk) 07:50, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Roger 8 Roger, 'The fact is' that Welling is not in Kent, it is in Greater London within the London Borough of Bexley, and has been since 1965. If you're in any doubt of this please consult the Counties of England page, or more specifically the Greater London and Kent pages, these include present day maps that will answer your question. I have indeed added more information to the article, in the history section, as you noted. Deanb1994 (talk) 15:35, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi Deanb1994. I have never disputed that Welling is not in Greater London because it obviously is. That is not the issue though. You have replaced a sentence with a relevant link (Welling being in historic Kent) and replaced it with a sentence claiming Welling was transferred from Kent to Greater London in 1965, and you have done this without any citation of reference point to justify the change. Other WP pages cannot be used as references. I am quoting here from the very Act that created Greater London. Section 2 declares that "the area comprising the areas of the London boroughs, the City and the Temples shall constitute an administrative area to be known as Greater London". All that happened was that local governance switched from the Municipal Borough of Bexley to the London Borough of Bexley and the Greater London Council. No mention of changing the boundaries of Kent. It was all done for practical administrative purposes. I don't know of any law that says a town cannot be part of a county unless its local government is operated b the County Council. If that were true then Chatham, for example, is no longer in Kent. Please, if you are going to make blunt changes like this check the details first and in particular back up your edits with reliable source material otherwise it will just get reversed or removed. If you are so adamant that Welling is not in the historic county of Kent then please supply the evidence or accept what others have accepted for over 1,000 years. I do agree that this is not a clear cut topic, but that only provides ample opportunity for well researched editing. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 00:22, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Of course the boundaries of Kent changed as a result of this act, along with the boundary changes to Hertfordshire, Essex, Surrey, and (most drastically) Middlesex. Section 3 states "no part of Greater London shall form part of any government administrative county, county district or parish", and there are multiple parts of the act that make it clear that relevant areas 'cease to be part of' their respective counties on 1st April 1965, if you are trying to argue that Welling (and presumably the rest of the borough) is some special place that can be in both Greater London and Kent, then that is simply not true. I never said that Welling was not in the historic county of Kent, I simply moved this to the History section of the article and provided more information. This information could be included in the lead if necessary, but I can't warrant its inclusion as before, without a proper explanation of the current situation. Deanb1994 (talk) 19:34, 11 May 2016 (UTC)

Deanb1994, where in the section you have quoted does it say that this NW part of the county of Kent ceased to exist in 1965 or that the county boundaries had changed? I suggest reading the Act fully and focus on the word ‘administrative’. The act was all about creating a more streamlined system for the local government of the growing Greater London area, and not about abolishing or rearranging long established counties. Please remember that you must verify your edits of substance like this with proper references and not just assume that your opinion is correct.Roger 8 Roger (talk) 09:14, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

We clearly have different ideas of what the default counties are, when discussing 'Kent' I am referring to the ceremonial county of Kent which is considered the default today, and when discussing the historic county I refer to it explicitly as such. I don't believe you can use the two interchangeably without causing confusion and saying that Welling is in Kent and Greater London is an example of this, similarly you wouldn't say that Westminster were in Middlesex and Greater London, or that Didcot were in Oxfordshire and Berkshire etc. I have clarified that the statement refers to the ceremonial county and referenced the act. Deanb1994 (talk) 12:40, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Thank you Deanb1994 for your quick reply. Regrettably I will need some time to formulate a slightly more detailed response but as a quick note, I have intentionally avoided the subject of the ceremonial county because I have been thinking about what happened in 1965, not 1997 when ceremonial counties came into being. Roger 8 Roger (talk) 13:24, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

Woops my mistake, I meant administrative county back in 1965! Deanb1994 (talk) 16:46, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

I am posting on here like you asked. Is it okay to update all London district pages to be a similar style to this? Justgravy (talk) 14:06, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

Notable residents
Over the next couple of weeks I'm going to try to rationalise the lists of notable residents of Bexley towns. Each one currently has a long and unsourced lists of people who might have gone to school there, may anecdotally have been seen in the area, may be from a neighbouring town etc. (see Sidcup for example). Also, many people were born in, say, Bexleyheath but grew up in, say, Welling. Meanwhile the article List of people from Bexley is woefully underpopulated. So I'm going to try to migrate most of the lists to there as a central list (with fully explanation of their local connection and history etc), add them to the articles about their secondary schools if the sources back that up, and only leave people on the list in articles about the specific towns if the source clearly states that they lived in that place. (see current list at Bexleyheath for an example). This should make the info more reliable, easier to check, and easier to understand. Any comments, objections, suggestions? Jdcooper (talk) 13:21, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Why are you deleting my writing
Violation User6263 (talk) 22:39, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Welling