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User talk:Davidyenoki

Hello there David, welcome to the 'pedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you ever need editing help visit How does one edit a page and experiment at Sandbox. If you need pointers on how we title pages visit Naming conventions or how to format them visit our manual of style. If you have any other questions about the project then check out Help or add a question to the Village pump. BTW, nice copyedit and expansion of iMac. Cheers! --maveric149

The Republic of China and People's Republic of China are very different entities. Don't link People's Republic of China on the Olympics pages. --Jiang 03:23, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Interested in an L.A.-area Wiki meetup?
It appears as though L.A. has never had a Wiki meetup. Would you be interested in attending such an event? If so, checkout User:Eric Shalov/Wikimeetup

- Eric 16:18, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Jimbo Wales to Attend San Diego Meetup on October 18 2005
Hello, Jimbo Wales will be in San Diego to attend OOPSLA and has agreed to come by and visit with the San Diego wikipedians. If you are interested, you will find more info on my talk page. Johntex\talk 00:54, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia Loves Art
First off, I apologize for the spam. You are receiving this message because you have indicated that you are in Southern California or interested in Southern California topics (either via category or WikiProject).

I would like to invite you to the Los Angeles edition of Wikipedia Loves Art, a photography scavenger hunt to be held at the Los Angeles County Museum of Art (LACMA) on Saturday, February 28, 2009, from 1:00 to 7:00 PM. All photos are intended for use in Wikipedia articles or on Wikimedia Commons. There will be a prize available for the person who gets the most photos on the list.

If you don't like art, why not come just to meet your fellow Wikipedians. Apparently, we haven't had a meetup in this area since June 2006!

If you are interested in attending, please add your name to Wikipedia Loves Art. Please make a note if you are traveling to the area (train or plane) and need transportation, which can probably be arranged via carpool, but we need time to coordinate. Lodging is as of right now out of scope, but we could discuss that if enough people are interested.

Thank you and I hope to see you there!  howcheng  {chat} 23:44, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia Meetup
You are invited to "Come Edit Wikipedia!" at the West Hollywood Library on Saturday, July 27th, 2013. There will be coffee, cookies, and good times! -- Olegkagan (talk) — Message delivered by Hazard-Bot at 03:27, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia Meetup
Help build the Wikipedia community in Southern California at "Come Edit Wikipedia!" presented by the West Hollywood Library on Saturday, August 31st, 2013 from 1-5pm. Drop in for some lively editing and conversation! Plus, it's a library, so there are plenty of sources. --Olegkagan (talk) — Message delivered by Hazard-Bot at 02:11, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

title: User talk:Davidyenoki


text:
Serial Line Internet Protocol

The Serial Line Internet Protocol (SLIP) is an encapsulation of the Internet Protocol designed to work over serial ports and router connections. It is documented in. On personal computers, SLIP has largely been replaced by the Point-to-Point Protocol (PPP), which is better engineered, has more features, and does not require its IP address configuration to be set before it is established. On microcontrollers, however, SLIP is still the preferred way of encapsulating IP packets, due to its very small overhead.

Some people refer to the successful and widely used RFC 1055 Serial Line Internet Protocol as "Rick Adams' SLIP", to avoid confusion with other proposed protocols named "SLIP". Those other protocols include the much more complicated appendix D Serial Line Interface Protocol.

Description
SLIP modifies a standard TCP/IP datagram by:

 * appending a special "END" byte to it, which distinguishes datagram boundaries in the byte stream,
 * if the END byte occurs in the data to be sent, the two byte sequence ESC, ESC_END is sent instead,
 * if the ESC byte occurs in the data, the two byte sequence ESC, ESC_ESC is sent.
 * variants of the protocol may begin, as well as end, packets with END.

SLIP requires a serial port configuration of 8 data bits, no parity, and either EIA hardware flow control, or CLOCAL mode (3-wire null-modem) UART operation settings.

SLIP does not provide error detection, being reliant on upper layer protocols for this. Therefore, SLIP on its own is not satisfactory over a link which is error-prone, such as a poor quality dial-up connection.

SLIP escape characters were also required on some modem connections to escape Hayes command set, allowing therefore to pass binary data through those modems that would recognize some characters as commands.

CSLIP
A version of SLIP with header compression is called Compressed SLIP (CSLIP). The compression algorithm used in CSLIP is known as Van Jacobson TCP/IP Header Compression. CSLIP has no effect on the data payload of a packet and is independent of any compression by the serial line modem used for transmission. It reduces the Transmission Control Protocol (TCP) header from twenty bytes to seven bytes. CSLIP has no effect on User Datagram Protocol (UDP) datagrams.

History
RFC 1055, a "non-standard" for SLIP, traces its origins to the 3COM UNET TCP/IP implementation from the 1980s. Rick Adams added SLIP to the popular 4.2BSD in 1984 and it "quickly caught on". By the time of the RFC (1988), it is described as "commonly used on dedicated serial links and sometimes for dialup purposes".

The last version of FreeBSD to include "slattach" (a command for connecting to slip) in the manual database is FreeBSD 7.4, released 2011. The manual claims that auto-negotiation exists for CSLIP. The FreeBSD version is inherited from 4.3BSD.

Linux formerly used the same code base for SLIP and KISS (TNC). The split occurred before the start of kernel git history (Linux-2.6.12-rc2, 2005). The SLIP driver offers a special "6-bit" escaped mode to accommodate modems incapable of handling non-ASCII characters. The Linux slattach command (written independently) also has the ability to auto-detect CSLIP support.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Serial Line Internet Protocol


text:
Talk:Proposition

Proposition equals implication?
When I looked up "inverse" in WP, the article begins immediately talking about implications. So I wondered "Are all propositions implications (because it seemed to me that all propositions should have an inverse)? Elsewhere on the web I found propositions being discussed as implications. If philosophy (does it?) commonly uses this equality ("All A are B" is the same as "If something is A then it's B" or "C implies D for some C, D"), or whatever, should that be discussed somewhere here? -lifeform (talk) 05:52, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Lesser of Two Equals
Much of this dicussions deals not with a word but more like an anti-statement made by people who find out that they themselves deal with the proposition but are not targeted by the proponent. What you have thus is a antagonist/protagonist article reffering to the discourse of human kind. As a whole people, this is very suspicious and not to the point of fact. A proper way to put it is that the word deals with risk, not value. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:301:7751:160:863:41AF:35BC:9314 (talk) 14:29, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

Accessibility of the lead
I wanted to start discussion on the lead. As stated in my edit summary, my goal was to make the text more accessible to readers without background in the subject, in particular by adding "for example" text. I'm not at all wedded to the particular text I put there earlier today, and I'm very happy to discuss. Botterweg14 (talk)  01:19, 31 December 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 5 May 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) – Material  Works  18:07, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

– There does not seem to be a primary topic for this term by pageviews or significance, when compared with referendum (also often called a "proposition"). ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 06:59, 5 May 2023 (UTC) The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Proposition → Proposition (logic)
 * Proposition (disambiguation) → Proposition
 * Oppose. Firstly, the article Proposition is not restricted to logic, as it considers also linguistic and philosophical aspects. So the disambiguator "(logic)" is too restrictive, and therefore confusing. Secondly, none of the items in the dab page can be reasonably considered as a primary topics. The page referendum mention "proposition" as the term used in some countries for "referendum". This is a regional use, and cannot therefore be a primary topic. D.Lazard (talk) 10:01, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * All the articles on propositions in Encyclopedia Britannica are categorized under "logic". I'd say it is the primary way it is described. While referendums are only called propositions in the United States, that doesn't disqualify it from being a potential primary topic. An audience of the entire U.S. is a fairly general audience, even if it doesn't reflect the global name.  ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 10:09, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Proposition and referendum are not synonymous. A proposition (a proposal, as to a change in law) may be subject to a referendum (a vote, to accept or reject the proposition). Station1 (talk) 00:15, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Per D.Lazard. Botterweg14  (talk)  01:28, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=Proposition for March indicates that the hatnote was 10th most commonly clicked link here, with 136 visits out of a total incoming traffic of 33.1k (< 0.5%). I think you need a stronger argument to refute the presumption of primary topic by usage here. --Joy (talk) 12:56, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Proposition


text:
Cap-Vert

Cap-Vert, or the Cape Verde Peninsula, and Kap Weert or Bopp bu Nëtëx (in Wolof), is a peninsula in Senegal and the westernmost point of the continent of Africa and of the Afro-Eurasia mainland. Portuguese explorers called it Cabo Verde or "Green Cape". The Cape Verde islands, 570 km further west, are named after the cape. Dakar, the capital of Senegal, occupies parts including its southern tip. The peninsula marks the border between Grande Côte to the north and Petite Côte to the south. It is delimited by two capes, Pointe des Almadies to the northwest and cap Manuel to the southeast.

The larger of the Deux Mamelles volcanic hills in Dakar is topped by Les Mamelles Lighthouse at its highest point.

Formed by a combination of volcanic offshore islands and a land bridge produced by coastal currents, the cape projects into the Atlantic Ocean, bending back to the southeast at its tip. Exposure to southwesterly winds contributes to Cape Verde's seasonal verdant appearance, in contrast to the undulating yellow dunes to the north.

The peninsula is shaped like a triangle (about 9 miles per side), with the base of the triangle roughly along the north and its apex on the south, near Dakar. Near Pointe des Almadies, the north-western tip of the cape, lies Léopold Sédar Senghor International Airport. It was used as a transatlantic ferrying point during World War II. Twin volcanic cones, the Deux Mamelles ("Two Teats"), dominate the landscape along the coast northwest of Dakar. The peninsula encloses a bay and a natural harbour in the southwest.

The indigenous inhabitants of the peninsula, the Lebou, lived as fishermen and farmers. Since about 1444, when the Portuguese first sighted the cape, it has been an entrepôt for African-European trade. The French later colonised this area and established the city of Dakar on the cape in 1857.

title: Cap-Vert


text:
Talk:Intercontinental ballistic missile

Restored reference links to Encyclopedia Astronautica
The reference links to Encyclopedia Astronautica (deleted by @Ilenart626 in August 2022 as "unreliable") were restored because the RfC for the reliability of Encyclopedia Astronautica concluded that "there appears to be a consensus that this is a valuable resource". So far no specific errors were addressed for the items linked to this article. SchmiAlf (talk) 10:15, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * @SchmiAlf has misrepresented the rfc, which concluded “There appears to be a consensus that this is a valuable resource, but which lacks editorial oversight, contains errors and is no longer updated…caution needs to taken in using the source .” The rfc found that no consensus, unclear, or additional considerations apply on the reliability of the site, which includes “It may be necessary to evaluate each use of the source on a case-by-case basis while accounting for specific factors unique to the source in question.” Given the issues with this source I am reverting SchmiAlf's change pending consensus for inclusion.Ilenart626 (talk) 12:04, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Israel “known” to have ICBMs?
Is Israel really “known” to have operational ICBMs? The lead contains a list of countries which are “known to possess operational ICBMs.” If so, I feel like there should be a citation next to Israel’s name on the list as Israel has repeatedly declined to comment on whether or not they possess any nuclear weapons and the whole program remains a secret. Jackvoeller (talk) 22:54, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Intercontinental ballistic missile


text:
Talk:Malheur County, Oregon

__

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Mountain Time Zone
Some but not all of Malheur County, including Ontario, is in Mountain Time Zone (the rest of the county, and the rest of Oregon, is in Pacific Time Zone). A map or description detailing the time-zone boundary within the county would be a helpful piece of information that does not appear to be readily available elsewhere online. I need that information right this moment, and am drawing a googleblank. --Haruo 00:39, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Info to your time zone questionI have a response to your time zone question, with decent detailed info. Are you monitoring this page, could you tell me how you monitor(frequency, pages, etc)on my user talk page.
 * Message Notification Info?Im still semi new to wikepedia, but what i think i know, is that if someone wants to communicate with me then they leave a message on my talk page and then wikepedia puts a banner on any wikepedia page i visit if there is a new message on my talk page. If this is not correct please let me know.
 * 67.160.137.69 (talk) 08:06, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Since you aren't logged in, 67.160.137.69 (that's not a user name, it's just an anonymous identifier of your computer's internet link), I don't know whose talk page to monitor or post on so I will do it here. I still think some information on the time zones of Malheur County would be useful information, but my urgent need for it as of 30 sept 2006 has long since passed and I no longer recall what it was about. So if you have the information from a source you can reference, go ahead and add it to the article. If you do it wrong, another editor may come along behind you and fix it or remove it as appropriate. Wikipedia articles are not the property of their editors. --Haruo (talk) 17:34, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

I take it back! That is apparently your user name, and a weird one it is indeed, it doesn't look like one, it looks like an ISP identifier. In any event my comment still stands. --Haruo (talk) 17:37, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * My user name clarification I just wanted to say that i dont have a user name and I am just an IP user at this time, and wikipedia give's me just a talk page that I am aware of. So what you see is just my ip address, where i have no control of what ip address is given to me.
 * My talk pageTo my knowledge, wikipedia does not let me (ip user) have a user page, therefore i just use the first section of my talk  page as my de facto user home page. I still monitor my talk page for now, and to my knowledge my talk page  is the only thing I am able to monitor. I dont think im allowed to have watch list for other pages, from what i know.
 * 67.160.137.69 (talk) 03:30, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

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Pronunciation
The correct pronunciation is mal-HEWER (rhymes with "sure," or [better] "sewer"), not mal-HEER.

See "Oregon Placenames Pronunciation" at http://www.cohp.org/or/notes/placenames_pronunciation.html 69.42.21.9 (talk) 04:39, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Malheur County, Oregon


text:
Talk:Marion County, Oregon

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👍👎 🟡 🟠 🔴 🟣 🔵 🟢 ⚪ ⚫ 🥳 🦄 💠 🟤 (ふ) {フ} [不] 🌐 I am looking for real world collaborators to better develop our community's safety net and use those folks to use education as a pivot point for their own separate profitable venturs (no silent e) while we create a faux royalty with our local royal Scots that includes registration with Lord Byron and all the fun pomp and circumstance can provide for seasonal adventurs, while providing three tiers of living available to everyone who shows up. There will be a fenced off area for children and other vulnerable citizens like myself living on social security. And there will be an "in betw333n" area for studio living and close supervision of whatever unique ideas meet our fancy; I hope we find people to help, for example, on a proper tea cup worthy kiln such that we can make and break things with an eye on sustainable living. And finally, a large pasture we'll divide into thirds leaving 1/3 to neo-nomadic living among and 2/3 fallow. This project started in 2015 under DHS's close supervision as Grandma Cinderella and Kate Brown & AG Ellen Rosen are following this project. I want our social security project to promote social security, even for stateless pirates.

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Talk:Morrow County, Oregon

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Talk:Multnomah County, Oregon

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US v. ALA
This county figures large in the 2003 US Supreme Court case of US v. ALA. I think that should be mentioned somehow. For people to make this determination, here is a link to the county library's CIPA page and a link to US v. ALA. --SafeLibraries 04:47, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Can those who are edit warring over the paragraph about the above case, please explain why you think the paragraph should be removed here. Katr67 04:21, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm not 100% sure of history but the paragraph has been in and rightfully so for a long time. Then I see an IP address with only 1 previous wiki edit removed the entire section without explanation.  So I just put it back.  I see that as what we are supposed to do, not edit warring.  Are you saying edit warring is going on?  I'll go look at the history.

 * I have seen a number of different articles being "cleaned up" by hardly used IP addresses never explaining what they are doing but systematicly removing information relating to books and libraries and the interests of the American Library Association, and the IP addresses trace back to Chicago and sometimes to the very network the American Library Association in Chicago uses. The ALA is based in Chicago.  I suspect the self-arrogated censorship police are cutting out information they find inconvenient for them, but I have no way to prove this yet, other than the generalized pattern I have just reported.  By the way, I was required to change my wiki name from SafeLibraries. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling 04:51, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Ah, I see what you mean. And 68.21.1.226 is from Dallas, the other location these anonymous people hit from.  I wonder why just Dallas and Chicago keep cutting out information. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling 04:55, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Adding information...
Well, I was reading this article, and it does not mention that as of June 2001, it does not offer extension services offered through Oregon State University. The extension service offered 5 different programs before being cut, which included 4-H and Master Gardener, just to name two well-known programs.--Rabbitdude 02:56, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Pop issue
Anyone know where the population info in the chart came from? The 2000 pop doesn't match what is in the lead or demo section for the same census. Aboutmovies (talk) 07:29, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

What is a convenience link
What is a convenience link? Will Beback just removed a "convenience link" to a web site that I run. So, warning, I have a COI here, See my Talk page for details. And I am not saying what Will Beback did is wrong. Rather, I am asking what is a convenience link? When I saw his removal of the link to my site, I agreed that was likely the right thing to do. However, he did not provide an alternate link, so I looked around and found none. Likely that's why he provided none either. So again, what is a convenience link? Is it a link that conveniently points somewhere where there may be other, better links, like from the actual publisher? Because here I cannot find a replacement link. Will Beback apparently didn't either. If that it the only link available, then it is not a matter of convenience, is it? Should that link to my web site be restored since it exists nowhere else and the publisher no longer hosts that article? --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 01:29, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

 * Do you, the webmaster, have permission from the copyright holder to post a complete copy of their work? If no then it's infringing on copyright and Wikipedia should not link to it. Links are not necessary for sources so long as the bibliographic information allows readers to identify the work.   Will Beback    talk    01:39, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

 * Only Fair Use permission, in this case. I do not, for example, make an archive of vast amounts of copyrighted work like Media Matters for America does that it uses to its own benefit.  I only make a rare Fair Use copy.  This is one of them.  Sometimes I get written permission, but not in this case.  I have previously obtained written permission for other articles on Oregon Live, but not this one.  I'll assume, however, that Fair Use would not be sufficient for Wikipedia.  So, whatever you think is best. --LegitimateAndEvenCompelling (talk) 02:06, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

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Mt. Hood isn't in Multnomah County
Can we replace the picture in the info box montage with something that actually is in the county? I'm thinking File:Multnomah Falls on 2 August 2012.jpg or File:Multnomah County Library.jpg or one of the Multnomah County Building (county HQ, which I do not see a picture of). Also, how about changing the caption to "Top to bottom"? Jason McHuff (talk) 01:56, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Multnomah County, Oregon


text:
Talk:Polk County, Oregon

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Alizabeth Monroe horner.
September. 76.138.130.137 (talk) 06:28, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Polk County, Oregon


text:
Talk:Sherman County, Oregon

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title: Talk:Sherman County, Oregon


text:
Talk:Tillamook County, Oregon

I know you people will delete this but
How has the intro devolved into some crap on the natives? We know so little and as someone born and raised in the country it has no bearing on a contemporary wiki article on the county, put it in a sub section. It reads like a buffoon who never lived her decided to try their hand on talking about our home. It's garbage, it's misplaced and for the record I have done as much research as can be done on the tribes of the area, there is just so little to really find at this point outside of real academic inquiry. This article is simply so off base it should be corrected. I will refrain from my attemps because I know how wikipedia is. I weep for the state of this site and the happy few who seem to run it all into the ground. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.27.169.198 (talk) 10:34, 6 January 2020 (UTC)

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A short entry about popular references could include the Todd Snider song "Tillamook County Jail" off of his album East Nashville Skyline. If no one else gets around to it, I will add it in the near future. Leeannedy 10:43, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Communities
I dewikilinked all the places that don't link from anyplace else besides this article. We have have enough obscure redlinked communities with List of ZIP Codes in Oregon, List of cities in Oregon, and U.S. cities without articles to keep us busy for a while without adding even more. Also, some of the places that are now part of larger cities could be given a write-up in the city articles and then redirected. Katr67 05:10, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Order
I changed the order to north to south.Kingjoey52a 23:56, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Fair enough, but when you do things like that, especially when you have been reverted (and in fact, when you make any edit on Wikipedia), you need to write an edit summary to explain what you are doing. Otherwise people like me freak out and assume it's vandalism. I don't think listing things north to south is generally a good idea, as this will have no meaning to anyone but a local. Your average Wikipedia user will expect things to be alphabetical. And besides, most counties don't have their incorporated cities conveniently arranged along one highway! There are certain exceptions such as List of lighthouses on the Oregon Coast, or various highway articles, like Route 101 (which for some reason goes south to north), but this order is made clear at the beginning. All the other lists of cities in the county articles are alphabetical, and it makes more sense to leave this one that way too. Thanks and happy editing! Katr67 02:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Strange border with Washington County
The Tillamook-Washington county border is a bit odd. It's a large eastward bulge, "stairstepped" along township/range lines. The Washington-Multnomah county border also stairsteps in this way. In that case the border more or less parallels the Willamette River, along the West Hills, giving Multnomah a strip along the river, and I'd guess the reason for the border is just that--to give that strip to Multnomah. But what is the deal with the Washington-Tillamook border? According to the Atlas of Historical County Boundaries, the bulging border was originally not "stairstepped". It wasn't until longer after first defined that the border was redefined to follow township/range lines. But why the bulge? It looks like the bulge gives Tillamook County most of the Wilson River watershed (plus, in the northeast corner of the county, the Salmonberry River watershed, more or less). I'm curious whether this is how the county lines were defined. Perhaps the topic is too trivial or arcane to get into on Wikipedia. On the other hand, the stairstepping stands out on maps. It's long struck me as curious. Anyone know more? Pfly (talk) 05:48, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * If I recall correctly, Washington County's borders were mainly to coincide with the drainage of the Tualatin River, or at least so after all the other counties were formed out of it (Yamhill, Tuality/Washington, Clackamas, and Champooick/Marion were the original four). Then given that GPS and aerial photography were not around and things were a bit more remote, the lines were not exactly perfect as to the drainage basin. If I also recall, I believe there were efforts around the turn-of-the century (1900 one) where people tried to or had the issue placed on the ballot to correct this issues. I do know there was an attempt by Multnomah County to take more of eastern Washington County around that time, but that failed at the ballot. Might be worth a mention about boundaries in general at List of counties in Oregon. Aboutmovies (talk) 22:45, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tillamook County, Oregon


text:
Talk:Umatilla County, Oregon

Refs for expansion
Valfontis (talk) 04:48, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * 1908 The Coast magazine issue devoted to Umatilla County

Current Population Numbers
I currently see the following from the US Census data for Umatilla County, which is significantly less than the 80,500 for 2017 shown currently on the page?

See: https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk 162.198.212.193 (talk) 19:08, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Umatilla County, Oregon


text:
Talk:Union County, Oregon

Untitled
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title: Talk:Union County, Oregon


text:
Talk:Wallowa County, Oregon

Untitled
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title: Talk:Wallowa County, Oregon


text:
Talk:Gerald Bull

Date Problem
The dates on this article don't match, it states he converted to Catholicism in 1909, but was born in 1928. It also states he was 58 in 1935. 82.18.7.5 (talk) 16:54, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

One more impression
I personally found this guy fascinating and followed his career up until he was killed. I, too, was under the impression that several governments may have been complicit in his death but Mossad probably carried it out. Bull had the bad luck (or judgement!) of working with Saddam and Israel considered this new weapon a threat.

From my understanding the correct journalistic way to report his death would be something like, "It is widely believed that Mossad...." or "It is usually assumed that Mossad..." Obviously, if it was a covert operation -- and it likely was -- the public will never know definitively what happened. But it is not reasonable to then not report on the likely truth behind covert operations. --Calan 14:12, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Customs Seizure
The date for the seizure by UK customs is May 1990 in the Project Babylon Article and November 1990 in the Gerald Bull article. Anyone know a source to clear this up?

Obviously, if it was a covert operation -- and it likely was -- the public will never know definitively what happened
That may be true - but surely modern day forensics techniques (that only require a nanoliter, ie: one thousandth of a millionth of a litre) of genetic material from bullets, etc... taken from the scene would at least be capable of pinning down the ethnicity of whoever committed the crime (if the individual were on the Police National Computer, then the police could successfully pursue a prosecution). Do the police still have some of the evidence from the scene of the assassination to pursue an investigation?

I don't know about this, but it would answer some interesting questions at least - and I'm guessing someone out there would want to know. --Nukemason

If you want to know the whole truth about Gerald Bull, you should read my book published in 1993, just a few years after Bull's assissination. The title: The Guns of Babylon. Toronto: Lugus Publishing, 1993 If you need a copy, I will send you one. Send me your address and Zip code. Best Jean-Pierre de Villers

I'm not sure that just because a book is written about a subject, the subject is true. And another assumption here is that Bull was actually developing a supergun that could reach Israel. None of these statements about such in ANY of the articles I've found here on Wikipedia are cited correctly. We seem to have a very powerful rumor mill operating here, but it should be made clear in the article's text that these references are merely SPECULATION. As it is, they're neither cited properly nor disclaimed at all.71.61.64.113 18:54, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This story about his materials for the supergun being caught was reported many years ago in the mainstream press. No rumor mill there. --Tilman 21:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

CADRE vs. CARDE and Core
The article seems to use the spellings CADRE and CARDE interchangeably. To make a wild guess, this is because of French Canadian spelling. Would it not make sense to mention the variant spellings on first mention in the article, if it is untenable to use a single spelling in the article.

Also, I would like feedback on whether Paul Preuss's Core (novel) should be mentioned in passing, since the story is clearly allusive of Gerald Bull in many ways. -- Cimon Avaro; on a pogostick. (talk) 23:00, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

 * It is? The article just says something about scientists traveling to the Earth's core, which doesn't sound anything like Bull's work... --Gwern (contribs) 18:13 20 August 2008 (GMT)

To this end he designed the Project Babylon "supergun" for the Iraqi government. He was shot outside his home in Brussels, Belgium.
This reads like he was shot by a supergun. Mathiastck (talk) 19:43, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

 * ;) --Martinor (talk) 09:29, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Theories on Bull's death
Well I remember watching the Discovery Channel in Canada (when they used to have a show called Discover magazine) that mentioned that the US, Canada, and Israel is implicated in the death of Bull. It might not be the case that the Mossad actually did the work, but my impression from that show was that the agencies in these 3 countries worked together to stop Bull from further corporation with the Iraqis. Suggestions that Bull was killed over Project Babylon didn't make much sense. These are stationary guns that can be easily found if you're a country with a spy satellite. And the Israeli air force is good enough to make sure that this gun is destroyed if anything happened. The same show mentioned that Bull was developing howitzers for the Iraqis in exchange for funding for building a satellite lobbing gun. Calyth 22:52, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Bull's work on Project Babylon didn't really upset the Israelis, it was his work on improving the range of Iraq's Scud missiles that they didn't like. After all, it was those upgraded Scuds that Saddam fired on Israel during 1991. That said, as the article mentions, Mossad didn't quite have that much motive to kill him as he would give them whatever details they wanted on what he was working on. Still, it cannot be ruled out that they killed him to prevent further work on the Scuds.
 * There is another theory that the Iraqis killed him because they no longer needed him, and because they were afraid he would reveal too much to the Israelis, but that doesn't appear to have gained much prominence. I think we'll never really know.  Imp  i  23:47, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/reference/gerald_bull has the same text. whose is original? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.54.94.65 (talk • contribs).
 * Absolute Astronomy.com is a mirror site, one of many dozens that mirror Wikipedia's content. See Mirrors and forks. Rest assured, the original content is here, on this site. —  Imp  i  18:16, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

The list of countries that could have assassinated Bull is speculative, and I am not sure that such speculation is appropriate. The list however ought to exclude MI6. The UK does not carry out political assassinations.122.59.167.152 (talk) 00:58, 5 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Not if this alleged CIA report is to be believed (https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/the-supergun-plot-murders-and-a-report-we-can-t-ignore-9382688.html). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:F35C:6401:6C9C:35CF:C0D8:1CBA (talk) 22:55, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

Does the UK carry out security assassinations? He wasn't a politician - he built cannons that probably could eventually deliver weapons from low orbit to almost anywhere. I'm surprised that his work was discontinued - if it was. 2601:181:8301:4510:2C1E:BF46:FA4D:E500 (talk) 03:12, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

Removed
removed this, saying it was unsourced. --Gwern (contribs) 19:34 10 February 2007 (GMT)

"The most common theories are that either; the Israeli Mossad was responsible due to the method used (small-caliber, sound-suppressed pistols), or that it was Iranian Intelligence VEVAK, who had the motive and capacity to easily have it done. Neither VEVAK nor Mossad representatives have denied responsibility for his assassination. Others, including Bull's son, believe that the Mossad is taking credit for an act they did not commit to scare off others who may try to help enemy regimes. The alternative theory is that Bull was killed by the CIA. There are some reports that Bull was demanding both a presidential pardon and money from the CIA or he would disclose all he knew about illegal CIA activities in South Africa. Unwilling to be extorted, it is claimed that the CIA therefore killed Bull. However most experts and analysts believe that either Israeli Mossad or Iranian VEVAK are the key suspected ones behind the assasination. Both strongly had the capacity and motive to stop Saddam from acquiring such an intimidation/terror weapon. A fictionalized version of this story is in the movie Doomsday Gun. Gerald Bull had worked for so many parties in so many critical defence projects that he became an asset and a liability for several powerful groups at the same time."

I don't recall any nation bemoaning his demise. If Israel didn't kill him then any of the listed countries would have been happy to do it, even the UK. 2601:181:8301:4510:2C1E:BF46:FA4D:E500 (talk) 03:16, 23 February 2018 (UTC)

About the "Assassination" section
There is a logical unexlained inconsistency in that section. How could the Mossad simultaneously deny responsibility for the assassination and (according to Bull's son) "[take] credit for an act they did not commit to scare off others who may try to help enemy regimes"?

Needless to say, that section is quite unclear, and speculative to boot. It reads like a conspiracy theory. 137.14.10.22 18:41, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

 * The logical inconsistency, if there is one, is why it took Mossad so long to bump him off!Phase4 20:38, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't see any problem in either. Certainly the first case is entirely common; we often see public figures saying one thing when it is clear they mean another. We call this "politics". Certainly Mossad would find it difficult to officially admit to killing a private citizen in another country. But unofficially? The message is clear enough. As to the second issue, that appears to be Bull's making, not Mossad's. The only thing they cared about was the extended range missiles, the gun was of no concern. According to the reports, they "warned" him repeatedly over a period of time. I don't see anything that suggests there was any sort of extended period of time that requires explanation (yes, I realize the comment was somewhat tongue-in-cheek). Maury 21:55, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

 * has someone changed the article since this comment. The article as written now has no logical inconsistency. It states that Mossad has not denied responsibility and Bull's son thinks that they are using the belief that they did it to scare off others. 68.40.189.25 21:37, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't think so. The way I understood that was that Mossad could very easily disclaim responsibility, but if they did not do it, a plausible reason for why they have not said as much is that it serves their goals to be thought of as more brutal and murderous than they would actually be. A cheap way to add to a sinister reputation. --Gwern (contribs) 23:02 25 October 2007 (GMT)

Mossad
I have no knowledge of this subject, but it seems highly NPOV to me. Are the Israeli accusations true? -- Zoe

 * Yep. I'll add a link to the article. What, aren't you familiar with the history of the Mossad? They're like a mini-CIA; they've been active all over the place, and use... well, "controversial" tactics to say the least. Read about what they did to recapture Mordechai Vanunu, for example. Or perhaps read about the Lavon Affair. Or Adolph Eichmann. Or Black September. Or Ahmed Boushiki, or Abu Jihad, or Khalid Meshaal. Heck, there's even some evidence indicating that Elie Hobeika's assasination was committed by the Mossad, although there's not too much evidence. The fact that it came just days after he announced that he was going to testify about Ariel Sharon about the Sabra and Shatila Massacre certainly didn't help, everything else aside. -- Rei

 * Obviously the Mossad must be smaller than the CIA, but "mini-CIA"? Is Britain a "mini-USA"?

 * As far as I know, it seems to be an accepted fact that Mossad killed him because the Super Gun had the ability to reach Israel. --24.186.250.37 21:27, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Note that Frank Langella played Bull in a movie, and a "Dr. Brattle" appeared in a Punisher storyline; Mike Baron has admitted that Brattle was based on Bull.

Singling out Mossad for his death seems very NPOV to me. I don't see that it's "commonly understood" at all to have been Mossad's doing, except in the cited Slate article, which cites THIS wiki article. Mossad might have had motive, and they might even be a likely suspect, but so are the intelligence agencies of Canada, the U.S., and Britain. Rasi2290 (talk) 05:07, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

No proof
Get it right there was no proof which agency assainated him so don't point to the Mossad.210.24.125.187 (talk) 11:36, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

 * There's no logical proof of anything in history; we do the best we can. In this case, the Mossad has the means, the history & inclination to assassination, the motive, and have been repeatedly fingered as the culprit (besides incidental considerations like not denying it). --Gwern (contribs) 13:59 14 September 2009 (GMT)

 * Slate points towards Mossad, which warrants the inclusion of a quotation of their journalist, Juliet Lapidos, in this article. Wikipedia is not about proving things, it's about restating what others have already written. No original research. - Please do not remove properly sourced material. --Martinor (talk) 09:02, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

 * As well, there are numerous other sources we can draw upon. Google Books alone gives ~200 hits for '"Gerald Bull" Mossad': http://books.google.com/books?q=%22Gerald+Bull%22+Mossad - any of which would be good enough, such as Arms and the man which attributes the accusation to Austrian officials & also Iraqi intelligence. --Gwern (contribs) 18:55 19 February 2010 (GMT)

so, israel executed a space exploration enthusiast because they considered him a security risk, imo it's quite a shame. when will the international society deal with apartheid and human right violations in israel already 77.35.126.123 (talk) 04:49, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

Years ago I read in one of Frederick Forsyth's books om CIA/Spy novels is that the Israelis actually considered Bull an asset....now on a logic train it would make no sense for them to kill Bull when the Supergun was almost comlpleted...as he was the brains behind the gun..if would be more lgoical to kill him before..not after it was made...likewise I dont see the Iranians killing him..as the gun was not pointed at them...likewise the CIA or MI6 would not logically have killed him since he did not apparently interfer with any of their operations...that leaves a not proven suspect Saddam Hussen..someone who trusted NO One...and no On trusted him....remember the Super Gun was almost completed....Saddam would not have wanted any secrets of its use....to be proclaimed to the World..(according to Forsyth Bull was very gregarious...)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.49.142.38 (talk) 13:45, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Neutrality Issue
As the popular theory is more than one agency (some conflictory, such as Mossad AND Ministry of Intelligence and National Security of the Islamic Republic of Iran) is responsible, blaming Mossad with what could generously be called incomplete evidence reeks to high Heaven (and low Hell) of anti-Semitism; Anti-Semitism disguised as “journalism” is worse than NaZI propaganda. (The article, as written, is not Anti-Semitic any more than it bashes on everyone else that ‘could’ have been involved, and should be left as-is until evidence otherwise is developed.) 174.25.142.178 (talk) 22:25, 25 June 2011 (UTC)A REDDSON

 * And your point is....? You seem to be contradicing yourself. First you say 'reeks of anti-semitism' and then the opposite and leave article alone. :S 1812ahill (talk) 02:12, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Uniformity when referring to countries and intelligence agencies
I'm not sure if there's a style guide for this but at least for this article we should try to be uniform on how we name intelligence agencies and the countries they belong to, specifically when listing multiple ones. I modified the intro to try to standardize that list but it still feels clumsy so there may be another better way. Cat-five - talk 04:13, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * They should be referred to by whatever name their nation refers to them as (even if it’s not English). However, there is no set convention in the matter. 22:25, 25 June 2011 (UTC)A REDDSON

Converting inches to mm
An editor converted a gun size to something he found in Bull's notes regarding the size of a gun. The "convert" template was cast aside. I changed one back. Thinking this through, I would rather go with the notes. If Bull gives a figure (mm, most likely), that should be used. But instead of looking for an exact inches match, just don't convert or convert. Either way, leave a note for future editors why the size may "look funny" in inches. This is a Canadian article and we can justify using mm first. Student7 (talk) 22:03, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

European Poudreries Reunies de Belgique as a JV with PRB not subsidiary ?
I'm doing an article on Poudreries Reunies de Belgique (PRB) (my draft here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Ttiotsw/Test1) but we have here that SRC had a subsidiary of European Poudreries Reunies de Belgique but this ( http://www.nytimes.com/1990/04/20/world/mysterious-death-of-owner-then-arms-company-closes.html?pagewanted=2) NYT article says it was a joint-venture in the 1970's with the Belgian munitions company Poudreries Reunies de Belgique (then part of Societe Generale de Belgique) and that the company (Societe Generale de Belgique I guess says this) said it ended the venture when Dr. Bull was sent to jail. The thing is that PRB was known to have sent propellant to Iraq via Jordan in 1989. This suggests that SGB talking crap and that SRC and PRB had a JV, probably just a memorandum of understanding, known within SRC and Bull as "European Poudreries Reunies de Belgique" but for which there is no other legal record that I can find. So my change is to remove subsidiary and call it a joint venture and use the NYT article as my reference. OK ? Ttiotsw (talk) 16:22, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

=¿Inside Or Out?= I saw a documentary on his assignation that depicted him as being shot on his own sofa; If this documentary is in error, then they should be ashamed, but I’d like someone to confirm which version of events is correct. 174.25.142.178 (talk) 22:28, 25 June 2011 (UTC)A REDDSON I'm a bit confused by how there could be so many different accounts of the exact circumstances of the assassination. Assuming the body wasn't moved, I would assume that being shot while entering the apartment would involve being shot in the back and leave a body in the hallway while being shot while answering the door would result in being shot in the front and leave a body within the apartment. Unless the door was open and they just found his body lying across the threshold partly inside and partly outside? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:2000:EE8C:6300:9949:9072:8168:67BF (talk) 10:17, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Full Bore
I am very surprised there is no page for "full bore" which has two meanings, one, the commonly used synonym for wide open throttle, or anything going "all out", and two, the finned projectile/ rifling used by Bull. Is the latter the origin of the phrase? What is the earliest usage?Drgrit (talk) 04:13, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Bombing the gun
During WW2 the Aliies bombed German constructions after the cement had been poured but before it had set. This meant that with the shuttering blown the concrete would flow over the site then set hard.

The Israeli miltary must have been aware of this possibilty and they had the capabilities to blow the site at any time. Did the Mossad ever really need to assasinate Gerald Bull?AT Kunene (talk) 08:39, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

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Soonish, Weinersmith futurism book, re Assassination and Legacy section
The assassination section says, One account states he was shot five times in the head and back at point blank range while approaching the door of his apartment in Brussels.[16] Another account states he was shot by a three-man team on March 20, 1990, when he answered the doorbell.[4] -- This book I'm reading called, Soonish, says Dr. Bull was quote, '...found dead in {in March 1990} in a Brussels hotel, with $20,000 on his body.' However, the way this article is written, the tone suggests that {1} there might have been witnesses, plus {2} doesn't mention a hotel {it mentioned a doorbell?} -- Anyone research if reputable newspapers covered the story once InterPol and/or some kind of FOIA cleared the investigation details for public consumption?? -From Peter {a.k.a. Vid2vid (talk | contribs)} 20:08, 27 November 2020 (UTC).
 * P.S. Probable source for above book claim is from William Lowther's non fiction, Arms and the Man: Dr. Gerald Bull, Iraq, and the Supergun. -From Peter {a.k.a. Vid2vid (talk | contribs)} 20:14, 27 November 2020 (UTC).

A Piece of History
Would like to see the original dish use to track the objects shot from the gun?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.51.96.83 (talk) 22:14, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Well written article
This is a very well written article and could readily become an A-Class / FA article! Well done to all contributors thus far. Farawayman (talk) 15:14, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gerald Bull


text:
Talk:Wasco County, Oregon

Untitled
Wondering how to edit this U.S. County Entry? The WikiProject U.S. Counties standards might help.

Repeating 'the'
I'm on the Wikipedia typo team and trying to eliminate duplications of the word 'the'. Most are routine or because of an interposed link. This one is a little different.

However, it is *not* correct to duplicate or repeat the definite article 'the' when it precedes 'The Dalles' or any other name, title, or term with 'the' in its name. We sing The Star-Spangled Banner, not the The Star-Spangled Banner. New York City is comprised of the Bronx, New York, Kings, Queens, and Richmond counties, not the The Bronx, New York, Kings, Queens, and Richmond counties. (People also go to the Bronx Zoo, not the The Bronx Zoo.) South Holland contains the Hague metropolitan area and other areas, not the The Hague metropolitan area. And Wasco County is properly comprised of the Dallas Micropolitan Statistical Area, not the The Dalles Micropolitan Statistical Area.

And for amusement, see The The Dalles, OR?, written a bunch of years ago. It doesn't give an answer, but I bring it up because the writer works for the New York Times – not the The New York Times.

Ira

Ira Leviton (talk) 22:10, 1 July 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wasco County, Oregon


text:
Talk:Washington County, Oregon

I removed the reference the IBM still had offices in the old Sequant building, IBM has since moved, and Nike has taken over the old IBM buildings. I worked at IBM when it moved, and I work at Nike now (in the same building actually) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.39.185.158 (talk) 04:54, 22 April 2016 (UTC)

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Stronghold
"Washington county has been a stronghold of the Republican Party, who have consistently registered a majority of voters as members ever since its creation, despite Washington County's evolution from a farming economy to a suburb of Portland." The above statement is POV and needs to be re-worked if it is to be included. The term stronghold is a value judgement that does not fit in with WP:NPOV, and honestly really is not that correct. As a long time Republican registered and voting many times in elections in the county (not in three years now) I know that GOP registered voters did outnumber Dems in 1994 when I covered the primary for a civics project. But it was a small majority. Further, the fact that Dems keep representing the County in Congress (Wu the Klingon man to Furse to Aucoin) would tend to disprove any stronghold (and yes, I know WaCo is not the only county in the 1st district). So if you want some sort of GOP v. Dems thing, make a section Political Affiliations, and make some charts with sourced numbers, and just the facts, no POV. Aboutmovies 05:11, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Washington County, Oregon


text:
Talk:Wheeler County, Oregon

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Seward, Oregon
Is there a town called Seward, Oregon located here? Badagnani (talk) 16:30, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Zeros
There are a few figures of density which are given as 0 per square mile or square kilometer. Shouldn't there be a significant figure given, like 0.x, or say something like "less than 0.5"? TomS TDotO (talk) 10:38, 27 May 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wheeler County, Oregon


text:
Talk:Yamhill County, Oregon

Images
For future reference for anybody working on Yamhill County history. Several years ago, a user who is a descendant of Yamhill County pioneers uploaded several images of people and places in the area here. I'm not sure how much of this will be useful (I didn't look at all of them) but there are images of Lewis Franklin Rogers and his gravestone, and he served in the Provisional Legislature from Yamhill County. Anything we can use should probably be moved to Commons. Valfontis (talk) 00:51, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Yamhill County, Oregon


text:
Mars 4

Mars 4 (Марс-4), also known as 3MS No.52S was a Soviet spacecraft intended to explore Mars. A 3MS spacecraft launched as part of the Mars programme, it was intended to enter orbit around Mars in 1974. However, computer problems prevented orbital insertion from occurring.

Spacecraft
The Mars 4 spacecraft carried an array of instruments to study Mars. In addition to cameras, it was equipped with a radio telescope, an IR radiometer, multiple photometers, polarimeters, a magnetometer, plasma traps, an electrostatic analyzer, a gamma-ray spectrometer, and a radio probe.

Built by Lavochkin, Mars 4 was the first of two 3MS spacecraft launched to Mars in 1973, being followed by Mars 5. A 3MS was also launched during the 1971 launch window as Kosmos 419. However, due to a launch failure, it failed to depart Earth orbit. In addition to the orbiters, two 3MP lander missions, Mars 6 and Mars 7, were launched during the 1973 window.

Launch
Mars 4 was launched by a Proton-K carrier rocket, a Blok D upper stage, flying from Baikonur Cosmodrome Site 81/23. The launch occurred at 19:30:59 UTC on 21 July 1973, with the first three stages placing the spacecraft and upper stage into a low Earth parking orbit before the Blok D fired to propel Mars 4 into heliocentric orbit bound for Mars.

Shortly after performing a course correction on 30 July 1973, two onboard computers failed, leaving Mars 4 unable to perform maneuvers. As a result of this, it was unable to enter orbit around Mars. Twelve photographs were taken on 10 February 1974 from 15:32 UTC to 15:38 UTC as the probe flew past Mars with a closest approach of 1844 km at 15:34 UTC.

Scientific Instruments
Mars 4 orbiter carried 15 scientific instruments on board to study Mars from orbital trajectory

 * Atmospheric Radio-probing Instrument
 * Radio Telescope
 * Infrared Radiometer
 * Spectrophotometer
 * Narrow-band Photometer
 * Narrow-band Interference-Polarization Photometer
 * Imaging System
 * Photometers
 * Two Polarimeters
 * Ultraviolet Photometer
 * Scattered Solar Radiation Photometer
 * Gamma Spectrometer
 * Magnetometer
 * Plasma Traps
 * Multichannel Electrostatic Analyzer

title: Mars 4


text:
Mars 5

Mars 5 (Марс-5), also known as 3MS No.53S was a Soviet spacecraft launched to explore Mars. A 3MS spacecraft launched as part of the Mars programme, it successfully entered orbit around Mars in 1974. However, it failed a few weeks later.

Spacecraft
The Mars 5 spacecraft carried an array of instruments to study Mars. In addition to cameras, it was equipped with a radio telescope, an IR radiometer, multiple photometers, polarimeters, a magnetometer, plasma traps, an electrostatic analyser, a gamma-ray spectrometer, and a radio probe. The Three cameras were a 52mm Vega, a 350mm Zulfar and a panoramic camera.

Built by Lavochkin, Mars 5 was the second of two 3MS spacecraft launched to Mars in 1973, following Mars 4. A 3MS was also launched during the 1971 launch window as Kosmos 419. However, due to a launch failure, it failed to depart Earth orbit. In addition to the orbiters, two 3MP lander missions, Mars 6 and Mars 7, were launched during the 1973 window.

Launch
Mars 5 was launched by a Proton-K carrier rocket with a Blok D upper stage, flying from Baikonur Cosmodrome Site 81/24. The launch occurred at 18:55:48 UTC on 25 July 1973, with the first three stages placing the spacecraft and upper stage into a low Earth parking orbit before the Blok D fired to propel Mars 5 into heliocentric orbit bound for Mars.

The spacecraft performed course correction manoeuvres on 3 August 1973 and 2 February 1974.

Mars orbit
The probe reached Mars on 12 February 1974. At 14:44:25 the spacecraft's engines ignited to begin its orbit insertion burn, which successfully placed it into an Areocentric orbit with a periapsis of 1760 km, an apoapsis of 32586 km, and 35.3 degrees inclination.

The spacecraft's pressurised instrument compartment began to leak as soon as the spacecraft entered orbit around Mars, which controllers believed to be the result of a micrometeoroid impact during orbital insertion. It ceased operations on 28 February, having returned 180 photographic frames, 43 of which were of usable quality. The probe's original planned lifetime in Mars orbit had been three months. The probe's gamma ray spectrometer measured the uranium, thorium and potassium content of the surface the probe passed over and found they were similar to igneous rocks on Earth. The exact ratios of the elements varied with the age of the surface. Mars 5's Infrared radiometer reported a daytime surface temperature of between -44 and -2 C.  Night time temperatures were measured at -73 C.

The probe also made a number of observations of Mars's atmosphere. It found an ozone layer at an altitude of 30 km and observed clouds.

title: Mars 5


text:
Mars 6

Mars 6 (Марс-6), also known as 3MP No.50P was a Soviet spacecraft launched to explore Mars. A 3MP bus spacecraft launched as part of the Mars program, it consisted of a lander, and a coast stage with instruments to study Mars as it flew past.

Spacecraft
The Mars 6 spacecraft carried an array of instruments to study Mars. The lander was equipped with a thermometer and barometer to determine the surface conditions, an accelerometer and radio altimeter for descent, and instruments to analyse the surface material including a mass spectrometer. The coast stage, or bus, carried a magnetometer, plasma traps, cosmic ray and micrometeoroid detectors, and an instrument to study proton and electron fluxes from the Sun.

Built by Lavochkin, Mars 6 was the first of two 3MP spacecraft launched to Mars in 1973 and was followed by Mars 7. Two orbiters, Mars 4 and Mars 5, were launched earlier in the 1973 Mars launch window and were expected to relay data for the two landers. However, Mars 4 failed to enter orbit, and Mars 5 failed after a few days in orbit.

Launch
Mars 6 was launched by a Proton-K carrier rocket with a Blok D upper stage, flying from Baikonur Cosmodrome Site 81/23. The launch occurred at 17:45:48 UTC on 5 August 1973, with the first three stages placing the spacecraft and upper stage into a low Earth parking orbit before the Blok D fired to propel Mars 6 into heliocentric orbit bound for Mars. The spacecraft performed a course correction on 13 August 1973.

Mars 6's lander separated from the flyby bus on 12 March 1974 at an altitude of 48000 km from the surface of Mars. The bus made a flyby with a closest approach of 1600 km. The lander encountered the atmosphere of Mars at 09:05:53 UTC, slowing from 5600 to 600 m/s as it passed through the upper atmosphere. A parachute was then deployed to further slow the probe's descent, and retrorockets were intended to fire during the last seconds before the probe reached the ground.

The spacecraft returned data for 224 seconds during its descent through the Martian atmosphere. However, at 09:11:05 UTC, with the spacecraft about to fire its retrorockets in preparation for landing, all contact was lost. Due to a design flaw, a chip aboard the spacecraft had degraded during the mission, and a large amount of the data which had been returned was unusable.

title: Mars 6


text:
Mars 7

Mars 7 (Марс-7), also known as 3MP No.51P was a Soviet spacecraft launched in 1973 to explore Mars. A 3MP bus spacecraft which comprised the final mission of the Mars programme, it consisted of a lander and a coast stage with instruments to study Mars as it flew past. Due to a malfunction, the lander failed to perform a maneuver necessary to enter the Martian atmosphere, missing the planet and remaining in heliocentric orbit along with the coast stage.

Spacecraft
Mars 7 spacecraft carried an array of instruments to study Mars. The lander was equipped with a thermometer and barometer to determine the surface conditions, an accelerometer and radio altimeter for descent, and instruments to analyse the surface material including a mass spectrometer. The coast stage, or bus, carried a magnetometer, plasma traps, cosmic ray and micrometeoroid detectors, stereo antennae, and an instrument to study proton and electron fluxes from the Sun.

Built by Lavochkin, Mars 7 was the second of two 3MP spacecraft launched to Mars in 1973, having been preceded by Mars 6. Two orbiters, Mars 4 and Mars 5, were launched earlier in the 1973 Mars launch window and were expected to relay data for the two landers. However, Mars 4 failed to enter orbit, and Mars 5 failed after a few days in orbit.

Launch
Mars 7 was launched by a Proton-K carrier rocket with a Blok D upper stage, flying from Baikonur Cosmodrome Site 81/24. The launch occurred at 17:00:17 UTC on 9 August 1973, with the first three stages placing the spacecraft and upper stage into a low Earth parking orbit before the Blok D fired to propel Mars 7 into heliocentric orbit bound for Mars. The spacecraft performed a course correction on 16 August 1973.

Mars 7's lander separated from the flyby bus on 9 March 1974. Initially, it failed to separate. However, it was eventually released to begin its descent. Due to a retrorocket failure, the probe missed the atmosphere of Mars, and, instead of landing, flew past along with the coast stage, with a closest approach of 1300 km. Known faults with the spacecraft's transistors were blamed for the failure, along with that of Mars 4.

title: Mars 7


text:
Talk:Adams County, Pennsylvania

How to edit
Wondering how to edit this U.S. County Entry? The WikiProject U.S. counties standards might help.

Question about Asper
Was Joel Funk Asper born here or in Adams County, Ohio? He is listed in both locations. --Brianyoumans 23:44, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * He was born here; I just removed the listing in the Ohio article. --Brianyoumans 00:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Merge Fire station article
There is an article on a fire dept from east berlin. It is not supported by sources but rather then see it deleted maybe it can be merged here within this article.Hell In A Bucket (talk) 12:27, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * The article LIberty Fire Company No. 1 can be found here.Hell In A Bucket (talk) 12:28, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I'll support the merger. I originally nominated it for speedy deletion because it didn't meet the notability criteria but it has information that could be salvaged here. Kotiwalo (talk) 12:29, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I am finewith a merge, but why not merge it with East Berlin, Pennsylvania? It is not a county-wide fire department, so I don't think it belongs in the county article. If the townships it also covers are known then it could be mentioned in their articles too, but it only covers 90 square miles and the county is 522 square miles (so it is only responsible for about 17 % 0f the county by area). Ruhrfisch ><> ° ° 12:55, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Makes sense to me.....Should have thought of it myself......Hell In A Bucket (talk) 16:09, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree fully. Kotiwalo (talk) 16:14, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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County motto
I suspect that the county motto of "digitus meus trahere" is a joke. According to Google Translate, it means "pull my finger." The citation given is adamscounty.us, which seems to make no reference to the county even having a motto.

Orphaned references in Adams County, Pennsylvania
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Adams County, Pennsylvania's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "TWC": From Carlisle, Pennsylvania:  From Cheltenham Township, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania:  From Gettysburg, Pennsylvania:

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 23:01, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Adams County, Pennsylvania


text:
Mars 2

The Mars 2 was an uncrewed space probe of the Mars program, a series of uncrewed Mars landers and orbiters launched by the Soviet Union beginning 19 May 1971. The Mars 2 and Mars 3 missions consisted of identical spacecraft, each with an orbiter and an attached lander. The orbiter is identical to the Venera 9 bus. The type of bus/orbiter is the 4MV. They were launched by a Proton-K heavy launch vehicle with a Blok D upper stage. The lander of Mars 2 became the first human-made object to reach the surface of Mars, although the landing system failed and the lander was lost.

Overview

 * Launch Date/Time:
 * Mars 2: 19 May 1971 at 16:22:44 UTC
 * Launch mass (including fuel):
 * Combined: 4650 kg
 * Orbiter: 3440 kg
 * Lander: 1210 kg
 * On-orbit dry mass: 2265 kg
 * Dimensions: 4.1 m tall, 2 m across (5.9 m across with solar panels deployed)

Launch
On 19 May 1971, the Proton-K heavy launch vehicle launched the probe from Baikonur Cosmodrome. After the first stage separated the second stage was ignited. The third stage engine blasted Mars 2 into parking orbit, then the Blok D upper stage sent Mars 2 on the trans-Mars trajectory.

Orbiter
The Orbiter type was the 4MV, used also for Mars-3 and later Mars and Venera Probes. The orbiter engine performed a burn to put the spacecraft into a 1380 x, 18-hour orbit about Mars with an inclination of 48.9 degrees. Scientific instruments were generally turned on for about 30 minutes near periapsis.

The orbiter's primary scientific objectives were to image the Martian surface and clouds, determine the temperature on Mars, study the topography, composition and physical properties of the surface, measure properties of the atmosphere, monitor the solar wind and the interplanetary and Martian magnetic fields, and act as a communications relay to send signals from the landers to the Earth.

By coincidence, a particularly large dust storm on Mars adversely affected the mission. When Mariner 9 arrived and successfully orbited Mars on 14 November 1971, just two weeks prior to Mars 2 and Mars 3, planetary scientists were surprised to find the atmosphere was thick with "a planet-wide robe of dust, the largest storm ever observed." The surface was totally obscured. Unable to reprogram the mission computers, both Mars 2 and Mars 3 dispatched their landers immediately, and the orbiters used up a significant portion of their available data resources in snapping images of the featureless dust clouds below, rather than the surface mapping intended.

The Mars 2 orbiter sent back data covering the period from December 1971 to March 1972, although transmissions continued through August. It was announced that Mars 2 and Mars 3 had completed their missions by 22 August 1972, after 362 orbits. The probe, combined with Mars 3, sent back a total of 60 pictures. The images and data revealed mountains as high as 22 km, atomic hydrogen and oxygen in the upper atmosphere, surface temperatures ranging from −110 to 13 C, surface pressures of 5.5 to 6 mbar (0.55 to 0.6 kPa), water vapor concentrations 5,000 times less than in the Earth's atmosphere, the base of the ionosphere starting at 80 to 110 km altitude, and grains from dust storms as high as 7 km in the atmosphere. The images and data enabled the creation of surface relief maps, and gave information on Martian gravity and magnetic fields. The orbiter remains in Martian orbit.

Lander spacecraft system
The Mars 2 descent module was mounted on the bus/orbiter opposite the propulsion system. It consisted of a spherical 1.2 m diameter landing capsule, a 2.9 m diameter conical aerodynamic braking shield, a parachute system and retro-rockets.

The entire descent module had a fueled mass of 1,210 kg, the spherical landing capsule accounting for 358 kg of this. An automatic control system consisting of gas micro-engines and pressurised nitrogen containers provided attitude control. Four "gunpowder" engines were mounted to the outer edge of the cone to control pitch and yaw.

The main and auxiliary parachutes, the engine to initiate the landing, and the radar altimeter were mounted on the top section of the lander. Foam was used to absorb shock within the descent module. The landing capsule had four triangular petals which would open after landing, righting the spacecraft and exposing the instrumentation.

The lander was equipped with two television cameras with a 360 degree view of the surface as well as a mass spectrometer to study atmospheric composition; temperature, pressure, and wind sensors; and devices to measure mechanical and chemical properties of the surface, including a mechanical scoop to search for organic materials and signs of life. It also contained a pennant with the State Emblem of the Soviet Union.

Four aerials protruded from the top of the sphere to provide communications with the orbiter via an onboard radio system. The equipment was powered by batteries which were charged by the orbiter prior to separation. Temperature control was maintained through thermal insulation and a system of radiators. The landing capsule was sterilised before launch to prevent contamination of the Martian environment.

PrOP-M rover
Mars 2 lander had a small 4.5 kg Mars rover on board, which would move across the surface on skis while connected to the lander with a 15 m umbilical. Two small metal rods were used for autonomous obstacle avoidance, as radio signals from Earth would take too long to drive the rovers using remote control. The rover carried a dynamic penetrometer and a radiation densitometer.

The main PrOP-M frame was a square box with a small protrusion at the center. The frame was supported on two wide flat skis, one extending down from each side elevating the frame slightly above the surface.

The rover was planned to be placed on the surface after landing by a manipulator arm and to move in the field of view of the television cameras and stop to make measurements every 1.5 m. The traces of movement in the Martian soil would also be recorded to determine material properties.

Because of the demise of the lander, the rover was not deployed.

Entry, descent, and crash landing
The descent module separated from the orbiter on 27 November 1971 about 4.5 hours before reaching Mars. After entering the atmosphere at approximately 6 km/s, the descent system on the module malfunctioned, possibly because the angle of entry was too steep. The descent sequence did not operate as planned and the parachute did not deploy. The descent module became the first man-made object to impact the surface of Mars. The exact crash site is unknown, but it is estimated to be at -45°N, -313°W. Attempts to contact the probe after the crash were unsuccessful.

title: Mars 2


text:
Mars 3

Mars 3 was a robotic space probe of the Soviet Mars program, launched May 28, 1971, nine days after its twin spacecraft Mars 2. The probes were identical robotic spacecraft launched by Proton-K rockets with a Blok D upper stage, each consisting of an orbiter and an attached lander. After the Mars 2 lander crashed on the Martian surface, the Mars 3 lander became the first spacecraft to attain a soft landing on Mars, on December 2, 1971. It failed 110 seconds after landing, having transmitted only a gray image with no details. The Mars 2 orbiter and Mars 3 orbiter continued to circle Mars and transmit images back to Earth for another eight months.

Overview

 * Launch Date/Time:
 * Mars 3: May 28, 1971 at 15:26:30 UTC
 * Launch mass (including fuel):
 * Combined: 4650 kg
 * Orbiter: 3440 kg
 * Lander: 1210 kg
 * On-orbit dry mass: 2265 kg
 * Dimensions: 4.1 m tall, 2 m across (5.9 m across with solar panels deployed)

Orbiter
The primary purpose of the 4M-V orbiter was to study the topography of the Martian surface; analyze its soil composition; measure various properties of the atmosphere; monitor "solar radiation, the solar wind and the interplanetary and martian magnetic fields". In addition, it served as a "communications relay to send signals from the lander to Earth".

The orbiter suffered from a partial loss of fuel and did not have enough to put itself into a planned 25-hour orbit. The engine instead performed a truncated burn to put the spacecraft into a highly-elliptical long-period (12 day, 19 hours) orbit about Mars.

By coincidence, a particularly large dust storm on Mars adversely affected the mission. When Mariner 9 arrived and successfully orbited Mars on November 14, 1971, just two weeks prior to Mars 2 and Mars 3, planetary scientists were surprised to find the atmosphere was thick with "a planet-wide robe of dust, the largest storm ever observed". The surface was totally obscured. Unable to reprogram the mission computers, both Mars 2 and Mars 3 dispatched their landers immediately, and the orbiters used up a significant portion of their available data resources in snapping images of the featureless dust clouds.

The Mars 3 orbiter sent back data covering the period from December 1971 to March 1972, although transmissions continued through August. It was announced that Mars 3 had completed their mission by August 22, 1972, after 20 orbits. The probe, combined with Mars 2, sent back a total of 60 pictures. The images and data revealed mountains as high as 22 km, atomic hydrogen and oxygen in the upper atmosphere, surface temperatures ranging from −110 °C to +13 °C, surface pressures of 5.5 to 6 mb, water vapor concentrations 5000 times less than in Earth's atmosphere, the base of the ionosphere starting at 80 to 110 km altitude, and grains from dust storms as high as 7 km in the atmosphere. The images and data enabled creation of surface relief maps, and gave information on the Martian gravity and magnetic fields.

Lander spacecraft system
The Mars 3 descent module was mounted on the bus/orbiter opposite the propulsion system. It consisted of a spherical 1.2 m diameter landing capsule, a 2.9 m diameter conical aerodynamic braking shield, a parachute system and retro-rockets.

The entire descent module had a fueled mass of 1210 kg, the spherical landing capsule accounted for 358 kg of this. An automatic control system consisting of gas micro-engines and pressurized nitrogen containers provided attitude control. Four solid-fuel motors were mounted to the outer edge of the cone to control pitch and yaw.

The main and auxiliary parachutes, the engine to initiate the landing, and the radar altimeter were mounted on the top section of the lander. Foam was used to absorb shock within the descent module. The landing capsule had four triangular petals which would open after landing, righting the spacecraft and exposing the instrumentation.

The lander was equipped with two television cameras with a 360 degree view of the surface as well as a mass spectrometer to study atmospheric composition; temperature, pressure, and wind sensors; and devices to measure mechanical and chemical properties of the surface, including a mechanical scoop to search for organic materials and signs of life. It also contained a pennant with the Soviet coat of arms.

Four aerials protruded from the top of the sphere to provide communications with the orbiter via an onboard radio system. The equipment was powered by batteries which were charged by the orbiter prior to separation. Temperature control was maintained through thermal insulation and a system of radiators. The landing capsule was sterilized before launch to prevent contamination of the martian environment.

PrOP-M rover
Mars 3 lander had a small 4.5 kg Mars rover on board, which would move across the surface on skis while connected to the lander with a 15-meter umbilical. Two small metal rods were used for autonomous obstacle avoidance, as radio signals from Earth would take too long to drive the rovers using remote control. The rover carried a dynamic penetrometer and a radiation densitometer.

The main PrOP-M frame was a square box with a small protrusion at the center. The frame was supported on two wide flat skis, one extending down from each side elevating the frame slightly above the surface.

The rover was planned to be placed on the surface after landing by a manipulator arm and to move in the field of view of the television cameras and stop to make measurements every 1.5 metres. The traces of movement in the Martian soil would also be recorded to determine material properties.

Due to communication loss it is unknown whether the rover was deployed.

Entry, descent, landing, transmission, and failure
Mars 3's descent module was released at 09:14 UT on December 2, 1971, 4 hours 35 minutes before reaching Mars. The descent module entered the Martian atmosphere at roughly 5.7 km/s. Through aerodynamic braking, parachutes, and retrorockets, the lander achieved a soft landing at -45°N, 202°W and began operations.

The lander began transmitting to the Mars 3 orbiter 90 seconds after landing. After 20 seconds, transmission stopped for unknown reasons. It is not known whether the fault originated with the lander or the communications relay on the orbiter. The cause of the failure may have been related to the extremely powerful dust storm taking place at the time which may have induced a coronal discharge, damaging the communications system. The dust storm would also explain the poor image lighting.

A partial image (70 lines) was transmitted. According to V. G. Perminov, the lead designer for Mars and Venus spacecraft at the Lavochkin design bureau during the early days of Mars exploration, the image was "a gray background with no details".

Possible images of lander on Mars
On April 11, 2013, NASA announced that the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO) may have imaged the Mars 3 lander hardware on the surface of Mars. The HiRISE camera on the MRO took images of what may be the parachute, retrorockets, heat shield and lander. This discovery was made by amateur space enthusiasts looking through publicly available archived images.

title: Mars 3