text:
Ship of fools

The ship of fools (Modern German: Das Narrenschiff, Stultifera Navis), is an allegory, first appearing in Book VI of Plato's Republic, about a ship with a dysfunctional crew. The allegory is intended to represent the problems of governance prevailing in a political system not based on expert knowledge.

Images of the ship became popular, especially in German-speaking lands, especially after the publication of Sebastian Brant's satirical book Ship of Fools (1494), which served as the inspiration for Hieronymus Bosch's painting, Ship of Fools. Normally, the images show a ship crowded with men mostly wearing traditional jester or fool's costume with cloth horns ending in bells, many quarreling, drinking, and fighting. In the book a ship—an entire fleet at first—sets off from Basel, bound for the Paradise of Fools. In it, Brant conceives Saint Grobian, whom he imagines to be the patron saint of vulgar and coarse people. In literary and artistic compositions of the 15th and 16th centuries, the cultural motif of the ship of fools also served to parody the "ark of salvation", as the Catholic Church was styled.

A "complex political satire", whose composition was repeated in at least seven different 15th-century prints, indicating great popularity, shows Pope Paul II and the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick III wrestling at the top of a ship's mast, wearing only briefs and their respective Papal tiara and crown. Emblems and labels cover many other European powers; the allegory is of the political fall-out from meetings between the two men in 1468-69.

After the Protestant Reformation, some depictions took a sectarian turn. A woodcut illustration to an edition of 1584 of Brant's book shows the Anti-Christ sitting on top of the overturned Narrenschiff, while in the foreground Saint Peter guides a small boat of respectably-dressed men safely to shore.

"Ship of Fools" has continued to be used into the 20th century as the title for numerous books, songs and other works. Some German cities have modern public sculptures of the subject: a fountain by Jürgen Weber in Nuremberg (1980s), a sculptural group in Neuenburg am Rhein (2004), a fountain in Cologne, and one in Bräunlingen of the shipwrecked boat.

Benjamin Jowett's translation of Plato's text
Benjamin Jowett's 1871 translation recounts the story as follows:

"Imagine then a fleet or a ship in which there is a captain who is taller and stronger than any of the crew, but he is a little deaf and has a similar infirmity in sight, and his knowledge of navigation is not much better. The sailors are quarrelling with one another about the steering -- every one is of opinion that he has a right to steer, though he has never learned the art of navigation and cannot tell who taught him or when he learned, and will further assert that it cannot be taught, and they are ready to cut in pieces any one who says the contrary. They throng about the captain, begging and praying him to commit the helm to them; and if at any time they do not prevail, but others are preferred to them, they kill the others or throw them overboard, and having first chained up the noble captain's senses with drink or some narcotic drug, they mutiny and take possession of the ship and make free with the stores; thus, eating and drinking, they proceed on their voyage in such a manner as might be expected of them. Him who is their partisan and cleverly aids them in their plot for getting the ship out of the captain's hands into their own whether by force or persuasion, they compliment with the name of sailor, pilot, able seaman, and abuse the other sort of man, whom they call a good-for-nothing; but that the true pilot must pay attention to the year and seasons and sky and stars and winds, and whatever else belongs to his art, if he intends to be really qualified for the command of a ship, and that he must and will be the steerer, whether other people like or not, the possibility of this union of authority with the steerer's art has never seriously entered into their thoughts or been made part of their calling. Now in vessels which are in a state of mutiny and by sailors who are mutineers, how will the true pilot be regarded? Will he not be called by them a prater, a star-gazer, a good-for-nothing?"

title: Ship of fools


text:
Talk:Juneau, Alaska

Largest City???
Are you sure that Juneau is the largest city in the US as far as land area? I think Sitka, Alaska is, and its article certainly thinks so as well. Nationalparks 21:29, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The Sitka City and Borough encompasses all of Baranoff Island, and is the largest incorporated area; however, the actual City of Sitka covers only a very small portion of that area. Juneau's city boundaries extend much further, to the point that I think it can be considered the largest city without being the largest incorporated area.--Lordkinbote 23:06, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

actually not only does sitka include all of baranof islan it also includes southern chichagof island. acording to this wikipedia sitka is slightly larger in land area. you might be right in that the incorperated part of the borough of sitka is smaller. on my year 2000 delorme state atlas map theres a small boundary surounding just the central city it marks the national forest boundary. its very possible that the incorporated part of sitka is not the whole county even though youd think that. this is tru for juneau its land area also includes some of this tongras national forest region too so both of you are right you both have dirrent difinitions of the incorporated areas. 76.244.155.36 (talk) 22:07, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

 * The opening paragraph states that Juneau is the second largest city in the US by area. The Geography section says it is the third largest. Which is it? --Mfwills (talk) 21:18, 1 November 2014 (UTC)

The Geography section is wrong. It says the largest is Yakutat City and Borough; however, that article tells us that, despite the name ("City And Borough" usually indicating a unified municipality, like Juneau), Yakutat is "just" a borough and not actually a unified municipality. This is equivalent to a county in other states, and should not be deemed the largest municipality by area. I think the Geography is wrong; it's Sitka and then Juneau (and then Wrangell). dcsohltalk 17:28, 6 July 2018 (UTC)

Capital of Alaska?
Is Juneau the capital of Alaska? or isn't it? Why isn't there anything about the state government that's located here? Some mention of the capitol building, the state legislature, the governor's mansion... something would be notable. On the surface, this article has the flavor of a "typical" Alaskan town than anything else. —MicahBrwn (talk) 06:29, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's is, but maybe not for long...  L'Aquatique   [  parlez  ] 15:19, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * So you're saying there's a movement afoot to move the capital of Alaska to some other city? Source?  Google came up with zippo.  The closest thing I found was something from three years ago; in response to efforts to revamp or build a new Capitol Building. (http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=15936)  —MicahBrwn (talk) 07:06, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There's already some information in the article about capitol creep, the FRANK initiative, etc.  L'Aquatique   [  parlez  ] 01:04, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There have been at least seven or eight statewide votes related to the capital move issue, the first being in 1960. That you're in disbelief about that based solely upon a Google search is not at all surprising.  In general, the development of this article has shown little regard for WP:NOTTRAVELGUIDE and is still badly in need of input from actual locals. RadioKAOS  –  Talk to me, Billy  02:10, 11 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Umm,YEAH!! I grew up there from 1989-1999. And, it was always the capitol. I don't believe they will ever move the capitol. They may have tried to move the capitol, several times, but it always fails. Juneau is a perfect place for the capitol, in my opinion! Erinlovesherkids (talk) 11:58, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Capital ≠ capitol. Tuvalkin (talk) 17:25, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

History of this page
During the alasken gold rush,a lot of prospostors came home with small foturns.
 * What's a foturn and where I can get one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.155.175.171 (talk) 18:54, 15 April 2011 (UTC)

Missing
B-Class criteria says no obvious omissions. I would call no mention of the A-J Mine (or even the Treadwell Mine) an obvious omission. I'll see what I can do.RadioKAOS (talk) 12:10, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Language Demographics
I've deleted this content:

15.1% reported speaking Tlingit at home, 5.1% Inupiaq...

This is not supported by the reference cited. Tlingit is an endangered language spoken by fewer than 1000 people in Alaska; the MLA shows 300+ speakers in Juneau. Inupiaq does not register any speakers in Juneau.

http://www.mla.org/map_data_results&state_id=2&place_id=36400&cty_id= — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.212.40 (talk) 15:12, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Fliptown
and currently redirect to Juneau and are being discussed at Redirects for discussion/Log/2012 August 1. Your comments there would be most welcome. Thryduulf (talk) 15:10, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Did Someone Vandalize The Climate Section?
I’m not sure but somebody changed a lot of information on the Climate Section 1) They changed Juneau To Subarctic Subarctic 2) Maximum Temp says 88 instead of 90 3) 1,400 Hours of Annual Sunshine instead of 1500 4)The Average Monthly Temperatures for many months are wrong. 5) Winters and Summers seem to list colder temperatures.

I'm not sure what else is wrong. Please do let me know.

Are these changes correct or did somebody screw it up.

Please comment

Well nobody commented for a few days so I just reverted it back since I assumed it was Vandalism

99.104.175.147 (talk) 23:17, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

 * It took me a while, after I reverted your edits, to see what you meant. I was coming back to fix it when I saw you had already done so. NameIsRon (talk) 23:38, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

What does this sentence mean? "If considered the average temperature of January, 32 °F (0 °C), instead of another Juneau isotherm falls in a warm summer humid continental climate (Dfb for the Köppen classification), but with strong oceanic influences although moderate by the several islands that surround the city." I don't get it. Ds77 (talk) 05:34, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Transportation
I think the blurb about Juneau not being serviced by a freeway along with those other state capitols is irrelevant. The US has a history of making small towns into capitols so that's not that noteworthy. I think "it's the only state capitol not serviced by a road leading out" is much more interesting and noteworthy, not being serviced by a freeway would also be implied in that statement. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.241.80.110 (talk) 17:01, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I question its accuracy, perhaps someone can't count? which interstate serves Honolulu? Jasen betts (talk) 06:48, 28 May 2016 (UTC)
 * As far as I'm aware, juridicially, Honolulu comprises the entire island of Oahu, just like Juneau has substantial corporate limits but a much, much smaller urban core. I don't have a good map handy, but it appears that Interstate H-1 runs right through downtown Honolulu.  There's also Interstate H-2, Interstate H-3 and Interstate H-201 on the island.  Something that's not only perhaps interesting to readers, but also quite relevant to the topic of Juneau, is that Egan Drive at Sunny Point/Switzer Creek is the location of the only interchange for hundreds and hundreds of miles in any direction.  Since our coverage of Juneau hasn't progressed much beyond being about the parts of town the tourists see, who knows when that will ever be acknowledged. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  07:39, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

I was taking "interstate" literally, and was unaware of the accepted meaning, sorry for creating noise.Jasen betts (talk) 12:25, 28 May 2016 (UTC)

Update needed (sooner or later)
Was looking for something on the Empire website just now. Someone created an article on the mayoral election about six months too early and it was deleted. For whatever reason, no one else stepped up to recreate the article at the appropriate time. Bottom line, from the Empire article I'm reading, Bruce Botelho is not running for reelection (or may be term-limited?). Just in case anyone can update/correct things before I ever get around to it (which in my case, won't be until after the election's over, or who knows when, whichever comes first).RadioKAOS (talk) 22:35, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

US State Capital
≠Every other US State Capital in the United States is included under the cat "Category:States Capitals in the United States". Juneau should be no different. While the cat was deleted previously using Hotcat, please be careful. If we are going to have that cat, and I believe we should, then we need to list Juneau along with Austin, TX., Charleston, WV., Sacramento, CA., etc. Thanks! AlaskaMike (talk) 20:33, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

NM, my bad. Please disregard. AlaskaMike (talk) 20:55, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

City rankings
I've noticed that for Fairbanks, Alaska and this page, the rankings of the cities by population has flipped with Fairbanks in third and Juneau in second. I haven't found the sources tied to the 2012 estimates indicated as the cause of this flip. I'm not N:PoV as a Fairbanksan and have refrained from corrections other than spelling corrections on it's page. I'd like someone to cite the sources of this flip, or make edits reverting the population rankings to those of the 2010 Census, which ranks the cities in order: Anchorage, Fairbanks, Juneau.Bahb the Illuminated (talk) 13:28, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that the state labor department publishes yearly estimates if the Census Bureau doesn't. I was glancing just the other day at my copy of the 2014 Municipal Officials Directory, and the population figures given for each municipality were estimates and not census figures (it is, after all, nearly five years later).  So sources do exist.  Expecting Google to hand it to you may not be the best approach to obtaining those sources, however.  Look at the thread in this talk page's archive where someone declares "Why, my Google search doesn't tell me anything about a capital move" in 2008, when the issue first appeared on a statewide ballot nearly a half-century prior in 1960 (and at least a half-dozen times since), for an example of what I mean.
 * Juneau was ahead of Fairbanks in the 2000 Census, too. I contend that the real issue here is one of using black and white as a basis to distort reality.  Let me explain.  Juneau, as well as Anchorage, Sitka and Wrangell, are unified municipalities.  That means that in each case, the corporate limits of the municipality includes the central city, all of its suburbs and thousands of square miles of wilderness.  You say you live in Fairbanks, so obviously you understand that this isn't the case with Fairbanks, the city, as opposed to other perceptions of what Fairbanks is (some of which include my residence, which is 21 miles from Fairbanks city limits).
 * I may have more to say. Right now, though, it's time to get back to my real world obligations. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  19:17, 29 December 2014 (UTC)
 * True, it was ranked higher in 2000. I'm looking for the source of the 2012 estimates. I'm guessing its somewhere in the Alaska state website, but I'm having some navigation difficulties. Also, the statements on both pages don't match the list in the page List of cities and census-designated places in Alaska.Bahb the Illuminated (talk) 00:55, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Greg Fisk
On Tuesday, October 20, 2015, Greg Fisk was passed the torch as mayor of Juneau. I noted that in the Info Box, with a reference. Greg Fisk has his own Wikipedia page, which I would encourage everyone to read. Enjoy! Juneau Mike (talk) 00:53, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Curiously enough, the Juneau Empire story of his death is shown to be posted at 7:00 pm, the exact same time the regular assembly meeting was scheduled to begin tonight, of which that would undoubtedly be a topic of concern. I don't do Twitter, do any of their reporters tweet from the meetings like the reporters do where I live?  At any rate, there's a high likelihood that an acting mayor will be selected tonight.  Someone should keep an eye out in case I don't feel like coming back to it. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  04:36, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

"No foul play"
Now that this is over and done with, here's some FACTS about Juneau and its mayor:
 * 1) The position of mayor of the City and Borough of Juneau is ceremonial.  The mayor's primary role is to chair assembly meetings, which makes it akin to the chairman of the board rather than the CEO of a corporation.  CBJ fulfills the latter role with a manager.  The 2015 Alaska Municipal Officials Directory, p. 8, mentions that CBJ employs a manager form of government and the manager is listed at the top of the listing of key CBJ staff.  This has been the case for at least three or four decades: the 1977 Alaska Blue Book, p. 154, lists mayor W(illiam). D. Overstreet, followed by manager M(al). B. Winegar, followed by the school superintendent.  Even though Overstreet very much enjoyed a reputation for being a take-charge kind of guy as mayor, the simple fact is that he didn't actually run the show.  Neither did Merrill Sanford.  Neither did Greg Fisk.  Etc., etc., etc.
 * 2) The CBJ is the SIXTH-most populous municipality in Alaska, per 2010 Census figures.  CBJ has crept ahead of the city of Fairbanks in various year-to-year tallies, but that still places it at only fifth, plus you have to contend with editors eager to tell you that estimates don't matter, only official census figures.  This business of cherry-picking sources to state "Alaska's second-largest city" is rah-rah boosterism of the worst sort, running completely afoul of WP:NPOV.  A unified municipality, which combines urban and suburban areas with thousands of square miles of wilderness, cannot reasonably be compared to a city with traditional corporate limits, where the majority of the community's population may reside within adjacent census-designated places rather than within actual corporate limits (which is the case with both Fairbanks and Wasilla).  Elsewhere in the world, these sort of comparisons tend to be readily dismissed as "apples and oranges".
 * 3) Of the more populous municipalities in Alaska, only the mayor of the Matanuska-Susitna Borough is not the chief executive of the municipality.  The MSB contains over three times the population of the CBJ, and Vern Halter has other claims to notability besides having been elected to a particular office, claims that really can't be made in the cases of Sanford and Fisk.  Oh yeah, there's also the Kenai Peninsula Borough, whose mayor served in the state house for 12 years, and whose mayor's office is located in a building named in honor of his father.  No possible indication of notability, you say?  It's really a matter of priorities.

So, in all this to-do over Greg Fisk, it's far too obvious that big corporate media and various Wikipedia editors have literally made a Mount Juneau out of a Starr Hill, no pun intended (I'm generally pretty serious whenever I see Wikipedia embodying "The Emperor's New Clothes"). Lacking any of the speculated foul play, what I see here is the William Henry Harrison of this office, except that there's an obvious world of difference between the POTUS and the mayor of Juneau. Speaking of Starr Hill, did it ever occur to anyone that "Kennedy Street" probably doesn't mean a whole lot to anyone not acquainted with Juneau? There's also the article Fries Miners' Cabins, but it's unclear whether that includes Fisk's home.

I'll come back to this if/when needed. appeared very confident that Mary Becker is mayor, but didn't enlighten us as to what part of CBJ code made what clear. At any rate, it's a primary source. The best available third-party source, the Juneau Empire stories, paint a more accurate picture, as reflected in 's edit summary, that Becker is ACTING mayor (big difference between that and a duly elected mayor, BTW) and that a special election may or may not be held to complete the term. And what's with all the redlinks to Becker, anyway? What I just detailed about Sanford and Fisk applies to her, too. It's really a bad joke to see people all wrapped up in whomever the current mayor happens to be, all the while ignoring historically important figures such as Overstreet, Ben Stewart and J. J. Connors. HELLO??!??! THIS IS AN ENCYCLOPEDIA. WE'RE NOT HERE TO PROVIDE FREE SOCIAL MEDIA HOSTING TO THESE PEOPLE (which is precisely how politicians tend to treat Wikipedia)!!!! RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 01:40, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

 * Most of this rant doesn't really merit a response, but I will note that this recent Juneau Empire story refers to Becker as being the mayor of Juneau: Also, the relevant section of CBJ code is Part I, Article III, Section 3.9:  The mayoral seat will likely be up for election next year but a special election may or may not be held; it wasn't when Byron Mallott resigned and Dennis Egan became mayor, but the exact details have yet to be decided:   -Kudzu1 (talk) 01:53, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I think I've read and heard plenty enough about this rather insignificant figurehead position (hey, at least the mayor probably has more real-life power than the "General Manager of Monday Night Raw") the past few days, the vast majority of which screams "slow news day" (or in the case of some news outlets, a desperate search for the next boogeyman until San Bernardino came along to save them). My read of the special election is that Jesse Kiehl wants it because he's a candidate.  BTW, for those of you who ARE in this to gratuitously puff up whomever happens to be the current holder of a particular office, you may wish to know about this.  The entire purpose of the draftspace thus far has been to bury content before it has any chance to develop into real articles, no matter how notable the topic, so you just may need someone who's paying attention to bring it to your attention.
 * "Most of this rant doesn't really merit a response". Heh.  So Wikipedia is a game of Monopoly?  "GO TO TONE: Go directly to Tone. Do not acknowledge Facts. Do not collect $200.".  Also, I love how you pick out one Empire story which may refer to Becker as mayor without the prefix "acting" and categorically discard any other Empire stories which do make such a reference.  Did you also suppose that readers aren't capable of seeing right through that?  Anyway, your mention of Mallott and Egan is very telling.  Are people so hellbent on wasting everyone's time with this because it's the mayor of a state capitol, or because Mallott and Egan are former holders of the office and those two obviously have sugar daddies among the community of editors?  If you bother to look at the facts I presented, there is no other reasonable explanation. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  04:12, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

 * How many Empire articles about Mary Becker do you think there have been since Fisk died and she assumed the duties of mayor as provided by city code? And speaking of WP:TONE, yours. It's not great. Cool off and argue politely and rationally, or else deal with my disdain. -Kudzu1 (talk) 04:15, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Mary Becker is the mayor, not the "acting" mayor
Although several news sources initially described her as "acting" mayor, the city/borough charter says The deputy mayor shall succeed to the office of mayor when a vacancy occurs in that office.

Thank-you to for updating the article. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  20:06, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

 * The city website also describes her explicitly as the mayor, as do more recent news articles. The office will be up for election again next October. -Kudzu1 (talk) 20:11, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I'll avoid another dissertation on how that may amount to a hair-splitting exercise. More on point, that same CBJ website describes how the municipality is actually run by the city manager and that the mayor is actually the presiding officer of the assembly, a point which has been so aggressively avoided, it suggests that we're out to deliberately mislead readers.  Where I live, not only is John Davies the presiding officer of the assembly for a municipality that's over three times more populous than the CBJ, but he previously served in the state house for a decade and was the state seismologist prior to that.  A resume like that begs the question of why I should care about Mary Becker and how the amount of attention given to her could be anything other than POV forking.  This same argument can be applied to the inordinate amount of attention given to Stubbs the cat, "mayor" of a place which isn't even a legally incorporated municipality. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  16:55, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

 * You do realize that most American cities have council-manager systems with a weak mayor, right? That Juneau isn't some weird anomaly? -Kudzu1 (talk) 14:16, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, Becker doesn't even have her own article at this point, so I'm not sure what you're so wound up about. Her name is mentioned literally once in the article, in the infobox where it belongs. -Kudzu1 (talk) 14:18, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
 * In Alaska, the overwhelming majority of mayors are elected by the city council from within its membership, not popularly elected. Such was the case with Bill Walker in Valdez, yet a number of active Wikipedians believe (and by extension, expect readers to believe) that all we really need to know about Walker's prior political career is that he was mayor of Valdez.  In that case, this obscures, even buries, his long-standing involvement in the political battle over building a natural gas pipeline and how his activism on the issue as governor could possibly amount to a conflict of interest.
 * Speaking of burying something, if the mayor's office and its status were something that the world at large really cared about, one would hope that the Juneau Empire would give more prominent coverage on their website to the latest developments. I had no problem finding coverage of the "Shop With a Cop" event at Nugget Mall this past Saturday, yet I couldn't find any coverage of last night's assembly meeting.  Fortunately, I tuned into Alaska News Nightly, which did cover the meeting.  According to what I heard, there will be a special election in March, Mary Becker is not a candidate in that election, and that she will be allowed to return to her assembly seat once a duly-elected mayor is sworn in to fill the unexpired term.  Going by common sense rather than interpretations of the law, that sounds exactly like an acting mayor to me. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  04:32, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Terms like "mayor" (without the "acting" prefix) and "acting mayor" are defined by law. When the legal definition and the common-sense definition conflict in a case where the legal definition clearly applies, we (and the press - at least in more recent reports) go with the legal definition.  davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  15:44, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

But wait, there's more
Sorry if this is taxing the patience of some readers. This article is currently assessed as B-Class. B-Class criteria states "No obvious omissions", which it fails simply by claiming to be about the City and Borough of Juneau while not actually providing an accessible overview of such, in fact shoving off coverage of large parts of the municipality onto list entries in the see also section instead of integrating them into the main article body. Much of our coverage of Alaskan communities is at the level of a POV fork about "the part of town the tourists see" and this is no exception. The government section is a little better off than the article as a whole in terms of breadth of coverage. Still, in the spirit of providing a more accessible overview, I feel there's more to be said.

Kent, Ohio, whose article was a WP:TFA just the other day, is also administered by a manager instead of a mayor. The manager is listed above the mayor in the infobox of that article, plus a much clearer explanation of the difference between the two is provided in the article body than what is found here. I suppose that making a big deal out of a ceremonial mayor (and other figureheads elsewhere) could be useful if the Martians arrive and can't find anyone to "take me to your leader", but that's about the extent of it.

While it's true the CBJ has had a ceremonial mayor for quite some time, sources suggest that it wasn't always the case. This timeline of the Juneau Police Department states "October 5, 1961 – Following a referendum, the strong mayor/council system was returned by the voters and Lauris S. Parker won re-election as Mayor", which implies that Juneau had a strong mayor prior to 1961. This was at roughly the same time as statehood and Juneau's ratification of a home rule charter, as well as Parker's replacement by a succession of acting mayors before returning to the office. I could not find further information about those events here, but that document contains a footnote referring to the 1983 election where the mayor and entire assembly were elected anew, only a year into the incumbent mayor's term. What little information I've come across regarding Bill Overstreet's tenure as mayor suggests that he served as a strong mayor. Lacking any further information or context, these two sources suggest that Juneau had a strong mayor for decades, which makes the current situation not so easy to explain away as being par for the course. That is, unless the objective is to continue the obsessive undue weight given to current or recent events at the expense of more contextually relevant historical events, a problem already rampant across the encyclopedia.

I forget which media outlet did cover the most recent assembly meeting, but the report I heard centered on the debate over a special mayoral election. They mentioned that this year's regular election brought out the second-lowest turnout in the past 30 or so years. Combine that with an incumbent mayor losing reelection by a nearly two-to-one margin to a political nobody, and it really causes one to wonder why we have articles on either Sanford or William Henry Harrison Fisk in the first place beyond validating my concern about trivial matters such as their being the mayor of a state capital. If it weren't for my generous attitude about this sort of thing, I would have already sent both articles off to AFD a long time ago. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 17:06, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Are you proposing that the article be re-assessed as C-class? davidwr/  (talk)/(contribs)  17:13, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
 * That's not a bad idea. I've been boldly doing such with a lot of other articles on the basis of those articles being under-referenced for B-Class, which could also apply to this article on top of any other issues it has. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  17:19, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
 * If it's "almost B-class" then I would recommending fixing the article rather than downgrading it. If it's got lots of deficiencies then downgrade it. davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  17:32, 29 December 2015 (UTC)
 * Looks like the article was assessed at B for both WP Alaska and WP Cities in 2007, back when B-Class criteria may have been different than it is today, again an issue that's hardly limited to a single article. Article assessment obviously tends to be overlooked quite a bit and even deliberately avoided at times. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions  17:30, 29 December 2015 (UTC)

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Founding legend?
You may be interested in this, from Samuel Young's book 'Alaska Days with John Muir.' This extract was written in 1879. "Pushing across the flats at the head of the bay at high tide the next morning (for the narrow, grass-covered flat between[Pg 164] Gastineau Channel and Stevens Passage can only be crossed with canoes at flood tide), we met two old gold prospectors whom I had frequently seen at Wrangell—Joe Harris and Joe Juneau. Exchanging greetings and news, they told us they were out from Sitka on a leisurely hunting and prospecting trip. Asking us about our last camping place, Harris said to Juneau, "Suppose we camp there and try the gravel of that creek." These men found placer gold and rock "float" at our camp and made quite a clean-up that fall, returning to Sitka with a "gold-poke" sufficiently plethoric to start a stampede to the new diggings. Both placer and quartz locations were made and a brisk "camp" was built the next summer. This town was first called Harrisburg for one of the prospectors, and afterwards Juneau for the[Pg 165] other. The great Treadwell gold quartz mine was located three miles from Juneau in 1881, and others subsequently. The territorial capital was later removed from Sitka to Juneau, and the city has grown in size and importance, until it is one of the great mining and commercial centers of the Northwest." Slightly at odds with the founding tale in the article itself, but who knows? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:8003:34F0:C300:21C:B3FF:FEC6:12F7 (talk) 03:00, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Notable Individual
I graduated in 1999,from Juneau- Douglas High School,along with a couple of really talented athletes. I see that you put 'Carlos Boozer' as a notable person, which he very much was and is!!! But, what about Chad Bentz? He graduated in 1999, as well. He played baseball, and he only had one hand. He's playing on minor league teams in the United States, but he is known as an excellent pitcher. He deserves to be noted as a 'Notable person', in my opinion. That would really hurt me,if I saw Carlos Boozer's name there, and I was an excellent pitcher/baseball player,that had accomplished so much, I'd feel like I'm just far less accomplished and talented than everyone else on the list. Look him up, you'll see why he should be on that list!!! Erinlovesherkids (talk) 11:49, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi, Erinlovesherkids. Since Chad Bentz has an article of his own, he is considered notable enough to be on the list. Feel free too add him yourself! (I can do it if you like, but it's your idea, you deserve to make your first article edit.) Just look at how the other list items do it: an * in front, alphabetical order by surname, double square brackets, date of birth in brackets — and you'll be fine. Bishonen | tålk 12:23, 2 July 2023 (UTC).

Presidential results
Not sure why there are two separate tables for presidential elections. One is incomplete and the data does not align with the other. Which is correct? Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 21:01, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Juneau, Alaska


text:
A Thousand Clowns

A Thousand Clowns is a 1965 American comedy-drama film directed by Fred Coe and starring Jason Robards, Barbara Harris, Martin Balsam, and Barry Gordon. An adaptation of a 1962 play by Herb Gardner, it tells the story of an eccentric comedy writer who is forced to conform to society to retain legal custody of his nephew.

Jason Robards starred in both the original Broadway version and in the film. Martin Balsam won the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actor for his performance in the movie.

Plot
Unemployed television writer Murray Burns (Jason Robards) lives in a cluttered New York City studio apartment with his 12-year-old nephew, Nick (Barry Gordon). Murray has been unemployed for five months after quitting his previous job writing jokes for a children's television show called Chuckles the Chipmunk. Nick, the son of Murray's unwed sister, was left with Murray seven years earlier.

When Nick writes a school essay on the benefits of unemployment insurance, his school requests that New York State send social workers to investigate his living conditions. Investigators for the Child Welfare Board Sandra Markowitz (Barbara Harris) and her superior and boyfriend, Albert Amundson (William Daniels), threaten Murray with removal of the child from his custody unless he can prove he is a capable guardian.

Charmed by Nick and Murray, Sandra argues with Albert, who goes off without her to their next case. Sandra spends the night with Murray. She urges Murray to find a job so that he can keep his nephew, and Murray agrees to look. But he walks out of his job interviews, treating them as a joke, because he feels that work would make him conventional and conformist and make every day the same. He apologizes to Sandra, but she is so disappointed in him that she walks out. Yet he knows that if he wishes to keep his nephew, he must swallow his pride and go back to work.

Murray also feels that he cannot let go of Nick until the boy shows some "backbone". In a confrontation with his brother and agent Arnold (Martin Balsam), Murray expounds his nonconformist worldview: that a person must fight at all costs to retain a sense of identity and aliveness and avoid being absorbed by the homogeneous masses. Arnold retorts that by conforming to the dictates of society, he has become "the best possible Arnold Burns".

Murray agrees to meet with his former employer, the detested Chuckles host Leo Herman (Gene Saks). When Nick does not laugh at Leo's pathetic display of comedy, Leo insults Nick, who quietly but firmly puts Leo in his place. Nick becomes upset with Murray for tolerating Leo's insults, and Murray sees the boy has finally grown a backbone. Realizing that Nick has come of age, Murray resigns himself to going back to his old job, Sandra returns, and the next morning Murray joins the crowds of people heading off to work.

Cast

 * Jason Robards as Murray Burns
 * Barbara Harris as Dr. Sandra Markowitz
 * Martin Balsam as Arnold Burns
 * Barry Gordon as Nick Burns
 * William Daniels as Albert Amundson
 * Gene Saks as Leo "Chuckles the Chipmunk" Herman
 * Phil Bruns as Sloan
 * John McMartin (as "John Macmartin") as Man in office

Music
Music in the film ranges from rudimentary drum cadences to Dixieland arrangements of "The Stars and Stripes Forever". The song "Yes Sir, That's My Baby" is used in several places.

Judy Holliday wrote the lyrics for the theme song "A Thousand Clowns". This was her last film credit, as the film was released after her death on June 7, 1965.

Stage
A Thousand Clowns premiered on the Broadway stage at the Eugene O'Neill Theatre on April 4, 1962 in previews, officially on April 5, 1962, and closed on April 13, 1963, after 428 performances. Directed by Fred Coe, the cast featured Jason Robards, Jr. (Murray Burns), Sandy Dennis (Sandra Markowitz), Gene Saks (Leo Herman), Barry Gordon (Nick Burns), William Daniels (Albert Amundson), and Larry Haines (Arnold Burns). Sets and lighting were by George Jenkins, and costumes were by Ruth Morley.

Walter Kerr, in his review for the New York Herald Tribune, wrote of Sandy Dennis: "Let me tell you about Sandy Dennis. There should be one in every home."

After touring stops in Durham, Chicago, and Boston, A Thousand Clowns returned to Broadway at the Longacre Theatre on July 4, 2001 in previews, officially on July 11, 2001, and closed on September 23, 2001 after 83 performances. The revival starred Tom Selleck as Murray Burns, Barbara Garrick as Sandra Markowitz, Mark Blum as Leo Herman, Nicolas King as Nick Burns, Bradford Cover as Albert Amundson, and Robert LuPone as Arnold Burns.

title: A Thousand Clowns


text:
Marbling

Marbling may refer to:
 * The quality of a surface that has streaks of color, like marble. For example:
 * Marbleizing, also called faux marbling, the art of painting walls or furniture to look like real marble
 * Paper marbling, a method of aqueous surface design in which paper or fabric is decorated with a spotted pattern similar to stone, as well as other swirled and combed patterns
 * Marbled meat, the pattern of fat in beef steaks
 * Marbling, a form of birth control in horse breeding, involving a marble used as an intrauterine device

title: Marbling


text:
Family tree of the Greek gods

The following is a family tree of gods, goddesses, and other divine and semi-divine figures from Ancient Greek mythology and Ancient Greek religion.

Key: The names of the generally accepted Olympians are given in bold font. Key: The names of the twelve first-generation Titans have a green background.

Key: Dotted lines show a marriage or affair.

Key: Solid lines show children.

title: Family tree of the Greek gods


text:
Myles Standish

Myles Standish (c. 1584 – October 3, 1656) was an English military officer and colonist. He was hired as military adviser for Plymouth Colony in present-day Massachusetts, United States by the Pilgrims. Standish accompanied the Pilgrims on the ship Mayflower and played a leading role in the administration and defense of Plymouth Colony from its foundation in 1620. On February 17, 1621, the Plymouth Colony militia elected him as its first commander and continued to re-elect him to that position for the remainder of his life. Standish served at various times as an agent of Plymouth Colony on a return trip to England, as assistant governor of the colony, and as its treasurer.

A defining characteristic of Standish's military leadership was his proclivity for preemptive action. He led at least two attacks or small skirmishes against Native Americans in a raid on the village of Nemasket and a conflict at Wessagusset Colony. During these actions, Standish exhibited skill as a soldier, but disturbed more moderate members of the colony due to his brutality toward Natives.

Standish led a botched expedition against French troops at Penobscot in 1635, one of his last military actions. By the 1640s, he relinquished his role as an active soldier and became a farmer in Duxbury, Massachusetts, where he was one of the first settlers. He remained nominal commander of the Pilgrim military forces in the growing colony, but acted in an advisory capacity. He died in his home in Duxbury in 1656 at age 72. Standish supported and defended the Pilgrims' colony for much of his life, though there is no evidence to suggest that he ever joined their church.

Several towns and military installations have been named after Standish, and monuments have been built in his memory. He appears as lead character in the 1858 poem The Courtship of Miles Standish by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, a highly fictionalized account which presents him as a timid romantic. The poem was popular in the 19th century and played a role in cementing the Pilgrim story in American culture.

Birthplace and early military service
Little is known of Standish's origin and early life: his place of birth has been debated by historians. Standish's will, drafted in Plymouth Colony in 1656, claims rights of inheritance to property in several locations:

"I give unto my son & heire apparent Alexander Standish all my lands as heire apparent by lawfull decent in Ormskirke [Ormskirk] Borscouge [Burscough] Wrightington Maudsley [Mawdesley] Newburrow [Newburgh] Crowston [Croston] and in the Isle of man [sic] and given to mee as Right heire by lawfull decent but Surruptuously detained from mee My great Grandfather being a 2cond or younger brother from the house of Standish of Standish."

All but one of the places named in Standish's will are in Lancashire, England, with the exception being the Isle of Man. Some historians have concluded that he was therefore born in Lancashire – possibly in the vicinity of Chorley, where a family named Standish owned a manor called Duxbury Hall. However, there is no conclusive evidence linking Myles Standish to that family. A competing interpretation is that he belonged to a Manx branch of the Standish family. No definitive documentation of his birth exists in either Lancashire or the Isle of Man.

The next earliest source on Standish's family and early life is a short passage recorded by Nathaniel Morton, secretary of Plymouth Colony, who wrote in his New England's Memorial (published 1669) that Standish:

"was a gentleman, born in Lancashire, and was heir apparent unto a great estate of lands and livings, surreptitiously detained from him; his great grandfather being a second or younger brother from the house of Standish. In his younger time he went over into the low countries, and was a soldier there, and came acquainted with the church at Leyden, and came over into New England, with such of them as at the first set out for the planting of the plantation of New Plymouth, and bare a deep share of their first difficulties, and was always very faithful to their interest."

Standish's early military career in the Low Countries is unclear. At the time, the Dutch Republic was embroiled in the Eighty Years' War with Spain. Queen Elizabeth I of England supported the Protestant Dutch Republic and sent troops to fight the Spanish in the Netherlands, as part of the Anglo-Spanish War (1585–1604). Historians are divided on Standish's role in the English military. Nathaniel Philbrick refers to him as a "mercenary", suggesting that he was a hired soldier of fortune seeking employment in the war, but Justin Winsor claims that Standish received a commission as a lieutenant in the English army and was later promoted to captain while in Holland. Historian Jeremy Bangs argued that Standish likely served under Sir Horatio Vere, the general who led the English troops in the Netherlands at this time. Vere is known to have recruited soldiers for the expedition in both Lancashire and the Isle of Man, among other places. According to historian Tudor Jenks, Standish came to the Netherlands around 1603 and may have seen service during the siege of Sluis in 1604, which involved Vere's English troops. The subsequent Treaty of London (1604) ended English involvement in the war; if Standish was a mercenary he might have continued to serve with the Dutch until the Twelve Years' Truce brought fighting in the region to a halt in 1609.

Standish's activities and whereabouts are unrecorded until 1620, at which point he was living with his wife Rose in Leiden, Holland and using the title of "Captain". There he was hired by a group of refugee Puritan dissenters from England who intended to form a colony in North America (the Pilgrims). Standish was employed as their military adviser. The Puritans had previously hoped the position would be taken by Captain John Smith, who had been one of the founders of the English colony at Jamestown, Virginia, and had experience exploring and mapping the American coast. The Pilgrims approached Smith and he expressed interest, but his price was too high and the Pilgrims feared that his fame and bold character might lead him to become a dictator. They appointed Standish instead; he was apparently already known to the Pilgrims.

Voyage to New Plymouth
On July 22, 1620 (Old Style date), the initial group of English Dissenters living in Leiden boarded the Speedwell, which was meant to accompany another ship to be hired in England. This initial group included the mostly Brownist congregation. Myles and Rose Standish were aboard, along with the Bradfords, Winslows, Carvers, and others. The small, 60-ton pinnace sailed to Southampton with about 30 passengers, to be provisioned and join a much larger vessel for the voyage to the New World. Another 90 passengers would board the 180-ton Mayflower. The Speedwell had some significant leaks while in port that caused delays, but both vessels departed Southampton on August 5.

The leaders of the colony decided to leave the smaller Speedwell behind after numerous delays caused by leaking, which had caused them to return to port twice. The Standishes and most of the Speedwell passengers crowded into the Mayflower, and the Speedwell went on to London to be resold, now with only a few passengers. The Mayflower passengers, meanwhile, sold some valuable supplies such as butter to pay the mounting port fees, and finally departed Plymouth, England, on September 6, 1620, bound for the northern part of the Virginia Colony.

On November 9, 1620, lookouts spotted land, but they discovered that they were near Cape Cod and about 200 miles east-northeast of their planned destination of northern Virginia. They tried briefly to sail south, but strong seas forced them to retreat to Cape Cod to harbor near the hook of Provincetown Harbor. It became apparent that the weather would not permit the passage south, so they decided to settle near Cape Cod. Shortage of supplies (including wood and beer) and the roaring Atlantic made it too dangerous to press on for a Virginia landing. They anchored at the hook on November 11, and the leaders of the colony wrote the Mayflower Compact to ensure a degree of law and order in this place where they had not been granted a patent to settle. Myles Standish was one of the 41 men who signed it.

Establishment of Plymouth Colony
The Mayflower was anchored off Cape Cod when Standish urged the colony's leaders to allow him to take a party ashore to find a suitable place for settlement. On November 15, 1620, he led 16 men on foot in exploration of the northern portion of the Cape. On December 11, he led a group of 18 and made an extended exploration of the shore of Cape Cod by boat, spending their nights ashore surrounded by makeshift barricades of tree branches. They were attacked one night by a group of about 30 Indians. They panicked, but Standish calmed them, urging them not to fire their matchlock muskets unnecessarily. The incident took place in Eastham, Massachusetts, and came to be known as the First Encounter.

After further exploration, the Pilgrims chose a location in Plymouth Bay in late December 1620 as the site for their settlement. Standish provided important counsel on the placement of a small fort in which cannon were mounted, and on the layout of the first houses for maximum defensibility. They had built only one single-room house when illness struck. Only 50 survived the first winter out of the 100 or so who arrived on the Mayflower. Standish's wife Rose died in January.

Standish was one of the very few who did not fall ill, and William Bradford credited him with comforting many and being a source of strength to those who suffered. Standish tended to Bradford during his illness, and this was the beginning of a decades-long friendship. Bradford held the position of governor for most of his life and, by necessity, worked closely with Standish. The two men were opposites in terms of character; Bradford was patient and slow to judgment, while Standish was well known for his fiery temper. Despite their differences, the two worked well together in managing the colony and responding to dangers as they arose.

Military action in support of Plymouth Colony
By February 1621, the colonists had sighted Indians several times, but there had been no communication. The men of the colony were anxious to prepare themselves in case of hostilities, so they formed a militia on February 17, 1621, consisting of all able-bodied men, electing Standish as their commander. The leaders of Plymouth Colony had already hired him for that role, but this vote ratified the decision by democratic process. The men of Plymouth Colony continued to re-elect him to that position for the remainder of his life. As captain of the militia, he regularly drilled his men in the use of pikes and muskets.

Contact with the Indians came in March 1621 through Samoset, an English-speaking Abenaki who arranged for the Pilgrims to meet with Massasoit, the sachem of the nearby Pokanoket tribe. On March 22, Plymouth Colony's governor John Carver signed a treaty with Massasoit, declaring an alliance between the Pokanokets and the Colonists and requiring the two parties to defend one another in times of need. Governor Carver died the same year and the responsibility of upholding the treaty fell to his successor William Bradford. Bradford and Standish were frequently preoccupied with the complex task of reacting to threats against both the Pilgrims and the Pokanokets from tribes such as the Massachusetts and the Narragansetts. As threats arose, Standish typically advocated intimidation to deter their rivals. Such behavior at times made Bradford uncomfortable, but he found it an expedient means of maintaining the treaty with the Pokanokets.

Nemasket raid
The first challenge to the treaty came in August 1621 when a sachem named Corbitant began to undermine Massasoit's leadership. Corbitant worked to turn the people against Massasoit in the Pokanoket village of Nemasket, now the site of Middleborough, Massachusetts, about 14 mi west of Plymouth. Bradford sent two trusted interpreters to determine what was happening in Nemasket: Tisquantum (known to the English as Squanto) and Hobbamock. Tisquantum had been pivotal in providing counsel and aid to the Pilgrims, ensuring the survival of the colony. Hobbamock was another influential ally, a high-ranking advisor to Massasoit and a warrior who commanded particular respect and fear among the Indians. When Tisquantum and Hobbamock arrived in Nemasket, Corbitant took Tisquantum captive and threatened to kill him. Hobbamock escaped to warn Plymouth.

Bradford and Standish agreed that this represented a dangerous threat to the Plymouth-Pokanoket alliance and decided to act quickly. On August 14, 1621, Standish led a group of 10 men to Nemasket, determined to kill Corbitant. They were guided by Hobbamock who quickly befriended Standish, and the two men were close for the remainder of their lives. In his old age, Hobbamock became part of Standish's household in Duxbury.

Reaching Nemasket, Standish planned a night attack on the shelter in which Corbitant was believed to be sleeping. That night, he and Hobbamock burst into the shelter, shouting for Corbitant. As frightened Pokanokets attempted to escape, Standish's men outside fired their muskets, wounding a Pokanoket man and woman who were later taken to Plymouth to be treated. Standish soon learned that Corbitant had already fled the village and Tisquantum was unharmed.

Standish had failed to capture Corbitant, but the raid had the desired effect. On September 13, 1621, nine sachems came to Plymouth, including Corbitant, to sign a treaty of loyalty to King James.

Palisade
In November 1621, a Narragansett messenger arrived in Plymouth and delivered a bundle of arrows wrapped in a snakeskin. Tisquantum and Hobbamock told them that this was a threat and an insult from Narragansett sachem Canonicus. The Narragansetts lived west of Narragansett Bay in Rhode Island and were one of the more powerful tribes in the region. Bradford sent back the snakeskin filled with gunpowder and shot in an effort to show that they were not intimidated.

Standish took the threat seriously and urged that the colonists encircle their small village with a palisade made of tall, upright logs. The proposal would require a wall more than half a mile (or 0.8 km) long. In addition, he recommended the construction of strong gates and platforms for shooting over the wall. The colony had recently been reinforced by the arrival of new colonists from the ship Fortune, but there were still only 50 men to work on the task. Despite the challenges, the settlers constructed the palisade per Standish's recommendations in just three months, finishing in March 1622. Standish divided the militia into four companies, one to man each wall, and drilled them in defending the village in the event of attack.

Wessagusset
A more serious threat came from the Massachusett tribe to the north and was precipitated by the arrival of a new group of English colonists. In April 1622, the vanguard of a new colony arrived in Plymouth. They had been sent by merchant Thomas Weston to establish a new settlement somewhere near Plymouth. The men chose a site on the shore of the Fore River in Weymouth, Massachusetts, about 25 mi north of Plymouth, and they called their colony Wessagusset. The settlers of the poorly managed colony infuriated the Massachusett tribe through theft and recklessness. By March 1623, Massasoit had learned that a group of influential Massachusett warriors intended to destroy both the Wessagusset and Plymouth colonies. He warned Plymouth to strike first. One of the colonists of Wessagusset named Phineas Pratt verified that his settlement was in danger. He managed to escape to Plymouth and reported that the colonists in Wessagusset had been repeatedly threatened by the Massachusetts, that the settlement was in a state of constant watchfulness, and that men were dying at their posts from starvation.

Bradford called a public meeting at which the Pilgrims decided to send Standish and a small group of eight, including Hobbamock, to Wessagusset to kill the leaders of the plot. The mission had a personal aspect for Standish. One of the warriors threatening Wessagusset was Wituwamat, a Neponset who had earlier insulted and threatened Standish. Standish arrived at Wessagusset and found that many of the colonists had gone to live with the Massachusetts, and he ordered them to be called back to Wessagusset. Pecksuot was a Massachusett warrior and leader of the group threatening Wessagusset; he came to the settlement with Wituwamat and other warriors the day after Standish's arrival. Standish claimed simply to be in Wessagusset on a trading mission, but Pecksuot said to Hobbamock, "Let him begin when he dare; he shall not take us unawares." Later in the day, Pecksuot approached Standish, looking down on him, and said, "You are a great captain, yet you are but a little man. Though I be no sachem, yet I am of great strength and courage."

The next day, Standish arranged to meet with Pecksuot over a meal in one of Wessagusset's one-room houses. Pecksuot brought Wituwamat, Wituwamat's adolescent brother, and several women. Standish had three men of Plymouth and Hobbamock with him in the house. On an arranged signal, they shut the door of the house and Standish attacked Pecksuot, stabbing him repeatedly with the man's own knife. Wituwamat and the third warrior were also killed. Standish ordered two more Massachusett warriors to be put to death, then went outside the walls of Wessagusset in search of Obtakiest, a sachem of the Massachusett tribe. They soon encountered Obtakiest with a group of warriors, and a skirmish ensued during which Obtakiest escaped.

Having accomplished his mission, Standish returned to Plymouth with Wituwamat's head. The leaders of the plot to destroy the settlements had been killed and the threat removed, but the action had unexpected consequences. The settlement of Wessagusset, which Standish had been trying to protect, was all but abandoned after the incident. Most of the settlers departed for an English fishing post on Monhegan Island. The attack also caused widespread panic among Indian tribes throughout the region. Villages were abandoned and the Pilgrims had difficulty reviving trade for some time.

Pastor John Robinson was still in Leiden, but he criticized Standish for his brutality. Bradford, too, was uncomfortable with his methods, but he defended him in a letter: "As for Capten Standish, we leave him to answer for him selfe, but this we must say, he is as helpfull an instrument as any we have, and as carefull of the generall good."

Dispersal of Merrymount settlers
In 1625, another group of English settlers established an outpost not far from the site of Wessagusset, located in Quincy, Massachusetts, about 27 mi north of Plymouth. The settlement was officially known as Mount Wollaston, but soon earned the nickname "Merrymount." Their leader Thomas Morton encouraged behavior that the Pilgrims found objectionable and dangerous. The men of Merrymount built a maypole, drank liberally, refused to observe the Sabbath, and sold weapons to the Indians. Bradford found the weapons sales particularly disturbing and ordered Standish to lead an expedition to arrest Morton in 1628.

Standish arrived with a group of men to find that the small band at Merrymount had barricaded themselves within a small building. Morton eventually decided to attack the men from Plymouth, but the Merrymount group were too drunk to handle their weapons. Morton aimed a weapon at Standish, which the captain ripped from his hands. Standish and his men took Morton to Plymouth and eventually sent him back to England. Later, Morton wrote the book New English Canaan in which he referred to Standish as "Captain Shrimp" and added, "I have found the Massachusetts Indians more full of humanity than the Christians."

Penobscot expedition
Standish's last significant known expedition was against the French who had established a trading post in 1613 on the Penobscot River in Castine, Maine. English forces captured the settlement in 1628 and turned it over to Plymouth Colony. It was a valuable source of furs and timber for the Pilgrims for seven years. However, the French mounted a small expedition in 1635 and easily reclaimed the settlement. Bradford ordered Standish to take action, determined that the post be reclaimed in Plymouth Colony's name. This was a significantly larger proposition than the small expeditions which Standish had previously led and, to accomplish the task, he chartered the ship Good Hope captained by a man named Girling. Standish's plan appears to have been to bring the Good Hope within cannon range of the trading post and to bombard the French into surrendering. Unfortunately, Girling ordered the bombardment before the ship was within range and quickly spent all the gunpowder on board. Standish gave up the effort.

By this time, the neighboring and more populous Massachusetts Bay Colony had been established. Bradford appealed to leaders of the colony in Boston for help in reclaiming the trading post, but the Bay Colony refused. The incident was indicative of the rivalry which persisted between Plymouth and Massachusetts Bay colonies. In 1691, the two were merged to become the royal Province of Massachusetts Bay.

Settlement in Duxbury

In 1625, Plymouth Colony leaders appointed Standish to travel to London to negotiate new terms with the Merchant Adventurers. If a settlement could be reached and the Pilgrims could pay off their debt to the Adventurers, then the colonists would have new rights to allot land and settle where they pleased. Standish was not successful in his negotiations and returned to Plymouth in April 1626. Another effort was successful later in 1626, this time negotiated by Isaac Allerton, and several leading men of Plymouth, including Standish, ultimately paid off the colony's debt to the Adventurers.

The leaders of Plymouth Colony were now free of the directives of the Merchant Adventurers, and they exerted their newfound autonomy by organizing a land division in 1627. Large farm lots were parceled out to each family in the colony along the shore of Plymouth, Kingston, Duxbury, and Marshfield, Massachusetts. Standish received a farm of 120 acre in Duxbury, and he built a house and settled there around 1628.

There are indications that Standish began to seek a quieter life by 1635 (after the Penobscot expedition), maintaining the livestock and fields of his Duxbury farm. He was about 51 years old at that time, and he began to relinquish the responsibility of defending the colony to a younger generation. A note in the colony records of 1635 indicates that Lieutenant William Holmes was appointed to train the militia as Standish's immediate subordinate. When the Pequot War loomed in 1637, Standish was appointed to a committee to raise a company of 30 men, but it was Holmes who led the company in the field.

The families living in Duxbury (sometimes "Duxborough") asked to be set off from Plymouth as a separate town with their own church and minister; this request was granted in 1637. Historian Justin Winsor and others have insisted that the name of Duxbury was given by Standish in honor of Duxbury Hall, near Chorley in Lancashire, which was owned by a branch of the Standish family. The coincidence would suggest that he had something to do with it, though no records exist to indicate how the town was named.

Last years
During the 1640s, Standish took on an increasingly administrative role. He served as a surveyor of highways, as treasurer of the colony from 1644 to 1649, and on various committees to lay out boundaries of new towns and inspect waterways. His old friend Hobbamock had been part of his household, but he died in 1642 and was buried on Standish's farm in Duxbury.

Standish died on October 3, 1656, of "strangullion" or strangury, a condition often associated with kidney stones or bladder cancer. He was buried in Duxbury's Old Burying Ground, now known as the Myles Standish Cemetery.

Marriages and family
Myles Standish married:
 * Rose (1601–1621) by 1618. She died the first winter. She was buried in an unmarked grave at Coles Hill Burial Ground in Plymouth, as were many others who died the first winter. She is named on the Pilgrim Memorial Tomb on Cole's Hill as "Rose, first wife of Myles Standish".
 * Barbara by 1624. She had come to Plymouth in 1623 on the Anne and they were married the following spring. They had seven children. She died after October 6, 1659, and her burial place is unknown.

Children of Myles and Barbara Standish:
 * 1) Charles (1) was born in 1624. He died between May 22, 1627, and 1635.
 * 2) Alexander was born about 1626 and died July 6, 1702. He was buried in Myles Standish Burying Ground in Duxbury, Massachusetts. He married Sarah Alden by 1660 and had eight children. She died before June 13, 1688. Her father was Mayflower passenger John Alden. He then married Desire (Doty) (Sherman) Holmes by 1689 and had three children. She died in Marshfield on January 22, 1731. Her father was Mayflower passenger Edward Doty.
 * 3) John was born about 1627. No further record exists.
 * 4) Myles was born about 1629 and died at sea after March 20, 1661. His body was lost at sea. He married Sarah Winslow, a daughter of John Winslow and Mary Chilton, in Boston on July 19, 1660, but there is no record of children.
 * 5) Loara (Lora) was born on May 22, 1627, in Plymouth Mass, and died by March 7, 1655. She married Abraham Samson (32) in 1646 when she was 19 years old and had 7 children; Nathaniel Samson, Abraham Samson, Miles Samson, Rebecca Samson, Ebenezer Samson, Sarah Samson, and Grace Samson.
 * 6)  Josiah was born about 1633 and died in Preston, Connecticut, on March 19, 1690. His burial place is unknown. He married Mary Dingley in Marshfield on December 19, 1654, who died in Duxbury on July 1, 1655. He married Sarah Allen after 1655 and had eight children. She died after September 16, 1690.
 * 7) Charles (2) was born by about 1635. He was still living on March 7, 1655/1656. No further record exists.

Legacy

Standish's true-life role in defending Plymouth Colony and the sometimes brutal tactics that he employed were largely obscured by the fictionalized character created by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow in his narrative poem The Courtship of Miles Standish. Historian Tudor Jenks wrote that Longfellow's book had "no claim to be considered other than a pleasant little fairystory, and as an entirely misleading sketch of men and matters in old Plymouth." However, the book elevated Standish to the level of folk hero in Victorian America. In late 19th century Duxbury, the book generated a movement to build monuments in Standish's honor, a beneficial byproduct of which was increased tourism to the town.

The first of these monuments was the largest. The cornerstone was laid for the Myles Standish Monument in Duxbury in 1872, with a crowd of ten thousand people attending the ceremonies. It was finished in 1898, the third tallest monument to an individual in the United States. It is surpassed only by the first dedicated Washington Monument (178 feet) in Baltimore, Maryland (finished in 1829) and the Washington Monument (555 feet) in Washington, D.C. (dedicated in 1885). The top of the monument is 116 ft overall, and at the top stands a 14 foot statue of Standish.

A second, smaller monument was placed over the alleged site of Standish's grave in 1893. Two exhumations of Standish's remains were undertaken in 1889 and 1891 to determine the location of his resting place. A third exhumation took place in 1930 to place his remains in a hermetically sealed chamber beneath the gravesite monument. His burial site is located in Myles Standish Burial Ground in Duxbury.

The site of Standish's house reveals only a slight depression in the ground where the cellar hole was, but it is now a small park owned and maintained by the town of Duxbury. Standish, Maine is named for him, as well as the neighborhood of Standish, Minneapolis. At least two forts were named after him: an earthen fort on Plymouth's Saquish Neck built during the American Civil War, and a larger cement fort built on Lovells Island in Boston Harbor in 1895. Both forts are now abandoned. Camp Myles Standish in nearby Taunton was also named for him.

Myles Standish State Forest is located in the towns of Plymouth and Carver in southeastern Massachusetts, approximately 45 miles (70 km) south of Boston. It is the largest publicly owned recreation area in this part of Massachusetts, and is managed by the Department of Conservation and Recreation (DCR). Myles Standish Hall is a dormitory at Boston University, originally constructed as the Myles Standish Hotel in 1925. In 2024, Boston University removed Standish's name from the building, citing his brutality.

In 2020, Chorley in Lancashire commemorated 400 years of Myles Standish's Pilgrim journey. However, many elements of its planned year were postponed due to the COVID-19 outbreak.

title: Myles Standish


text:
Talk:Myles Standish

Lancashire Home
Edited the part that said Standish Hall was still standing, believe me if it was still standing i'd be able to see it from my bedroom window now.

Couple of other things i'm not too sure about either but i'll need to look them up later. Batch

I agree both his homes, Standish Hall and Duxbury Hall at Chorley are both demolished.

For those who claim Duxbury hall still stands it was demolished in the 50s and the estate is now Duxbury Golf Course. The railway is now closed as well is the coal mine. King konger.

Is this original work? -- Zoe

 * Apparently not. --Brion 22:17 Oct 1, 2002 (UTC)

 * Let me know if my rewording takes care of the copyright problem. -- Zoe

It should be noted that The crest of the state of Massachusetts features a raised arm holding a sword, this arm is Miles Standish's arm.

Myles or Miles?
Is his name spelt 'Myles' or 'Miles'? May seem a trivial distinction, but it's points like these that make or break an article.

-- Sasuke Sarutobi 22:48, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

---It's especially important because the article goes back and forth between spellings with no distinction. Rebochan 16:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I know this is an old reply, but the spelling was not consistent in contemporary documents (Miles in some, Myles in others), nor is it so in modern historical texts. Most texts pick one spelling and stick to it, but there is no agreement from one text to another as to its proper spelling.  Before Noah Webster anyway, spelling wasn't very consistent.  I will fix the document to reflect this.  There should be an internal consistency in this document, and since the title is Myles, we'll go with that. --Jayron32| talk | contribs  04:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 * To the anonymous editor who added the information about his signature. The information may be quite important to this article, but we need a reference to a work by a notable historian where such facts are reported.  Also, the use of the term "misspelled" is in violation of NPOV, since it implies that in the 17th century there were standard rules of orthography that were accepted.  There weren't.  To indicate that he himself spelled his name with a "Y" (with an appropriate reference) may be germaine to this article, but to indicate that other alternate spellings are incorrect is simply not true in holding with 17th century spelling conventions.  The interchangability of I and Y can be seen in works such as John Smith, who named the site of the Pilgrim's landing "New Plimouth" and William Bradford's memoirs "Of Plimoth Plantation".  Modern historical texts use either form, but "Plymouth", "Plimouth" and "Plimoth" were all "correct" in the context of the 1600's.  The same is so for Myles Standish.--Jayron32| talk | contribs  06:01, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

--I think I was that "anonymous editor." I am Myles Standish of Tucson, Arizona. The only signature I have seen is the one on the Mayflower Compact. A clear copy can be viewed at http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mosmd/compact1.jpg. If there are other documents that have his signature with an "i" please share. Thanks, Myles —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.197.2.21 (talk) 06:04, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

Gurblet (talk) 02:45, 21 October 2023 (UTC)Hey, my family tree says that it is Myles, it wouldn't be reliable enough to make the whole decision, but it seems like a good confirmation.

Courtship
Given that Standish is "best remembered" for being a character in "The Courtship of...", shouldn't there be more about the poem in this article? I realize that the poem is basically fiction, but the fictional Myles Standish is at least as notable as the historical one. Nareek 02:40, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

this is my great great great grandfather
MILES Standish is my great great great grandfather. His name is spelled MILES. I oun his sword, it has his name inscripted on it. my grandfather is passing away so he just passed it down to me. I now am restoring it.

If he was your great, great, great grandfather, the men in your line reproduced at an average age of about 65. Not likely. You need to have a heart-to-heart with your parents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Standish72 (talk • contribs) 09:22, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Notable Descendants
So I suppose a person has to be notable to be added to the list of notable descendants? I happen to personally know two of them and they're notable to me. Tanner Gilliland.

Benjamin Waller among others. His descendants married the Waller family. I'm a descendent of the Waller family RMSTitanicFan1912 (talk) 08:06, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Isle of Man?
The "Ile of Man" referred to in the will is more likely to refer to the farm of that name to the west of Croston, West of Chorley and within a relative distance to Croston, Mawdesley, Ormskirk, and Newborough. There is no reason why a whole, distant island would be willed within a list of small land-holdings all held together within a small area of West Lancashire. The area where the "Ile of Man" is today is still low-lying with many drainage channels. This area would have beeen prone to flooding in the sexteenth century, and hence farms would have been built on the higher ground and marooned as "islands". Local knowldege pays dividens here.

The link to the Isle of Man should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Amcree (talk • contribs) 09:24, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

 * I realize this is an old post, but I thought I should mention here, as the issue may come up again, that the age of the Isle of Man Farm near Croston had been questioned. It's discussed at length in an article by Jeremy Bangs here.  Apparently, the oldest evidence applying the name Isle of Man to that place dates only to the early 19th century.  Like so many things about Standish's origin, it's an uncertain factor. Historical Perspective (talk) 14:49, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

According to my records he was born in Duxbury, Lancashire, England. Standish is my 3rd cousin 16x removed RMSTitanicFan1912 (talk) 08:08, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Myles Standish
I have a few comments to make Captain Miles Standish is his name not spelt Myles according to my family tree and also I was reading this article and it says he met and married a woman named Barbara, Well her Last name was Mullins they had 6 children as you may know. I just wanted to let someone know Barbaras last name and the correct spelling of his name. thank you

Rebekah —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rebekahhodges (talk • contribs) 04:28, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Merge and/or consolidate info into a new narrative?
This article seems to have two separate narratives going on. The "Who was Myles Standish" section appears to be a second bio and, rather than being a separate section, it seems to me that information should have been interwoven within the existing article. The "Who was" section also has some serious problems with unreferenced and questionable facts. I'm contemplating an overhaul of this article that would string together a single narrative of Capt. Standish's life, BUT...I don't want to embark on major changes without some feedback on this. Any thoughts from previous contributors? Thanks, Historical Perspective (talk) 20:39, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

 * Okay, hearing no objections, I suppose I'm going to go ahead and work on a major overhaul, which I think this disjointed article really needs. I hope to start making changes in the next few days.  Bear with me as I work on it.  And, of course, any suggestions, contributions, help, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Historical Perspective (talk) 11:23, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Birthplace of Myles Standish
This subject has been debated for more than a century and may not ever be completely resolved. There is no primary source evidence to show exactly where Standish was born, which is why I had listed his birthplace as "Unknown." I will admit that "unknown" is probably improper given the fact that there really seems to be a growing (I might even say overwhelming) consensus that Standish was born in the vicinity of Chorley, Lancashire, England. I've personally spoken to authorities on both sides of the Atlantic on this one. I think the Rector of the St. Laurence Church in Chorley (which has Standishes interred there) put it best on their website when he writes, "The research of the St Laurence Historical Society has not yet provided any absolute proof as to the birthplace of Myles Standish. However, as of 2007, it does seem able to state that the balance of probability is now that Myles Standish was probably born in Lancashire and had some significant association with Manor of Duxbury, Chorley, that branch of the Standish family being worshipers at St Laurence Church."(For full article by John Cree, see here). So, that said, I think it's appropriate to list his birthplace as Lancashire, England. Perhaps even something like "vicinity of Chorley, Lancashire, England." But I did remove "Duxbury" because that was the name of a manor hall and not a town or city. Even though it seems clear that Myles Standish was somehow related to the Standishes of Duxbury Manor, it really would be a tough one to prove that he was born IN Duxbury Manor. Historical Perspective (talk) 15:18, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Well, now I'm going to take a step back from what I wrote above. As I'm in the process of writing up a more extensive biography of Standish to go on his Wikipedia page, I've been reading many sources.  One of the most extensive explorations I've been able to find regarding Myles Standish's birthplace is Myles Standish, Born Where? by Pilgrim scholar, Dr. Jeremy Bangs.  In this article, Bangs (former curator at Plimoth Plantation and current director of the Leiden American Pilgrim Museum) concludes that none of the current theories on Standish's birthplace can be conclusively proven.  So, while I happen to lean toward the Lancashire camp, I think the article needs to reflect the fact that absolute, irrefutable, definitive proof does not exist. Historical Perspective (talk) 20:07, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

No descendants section?
I guess, in the unlikely event that any curious readers/editors are wondering, I should record my rationale for not including a "notable descendants" section as many of the articles for Mayflower passengers do. First, WP:MOS specifies that lists should really be kept to "works by," "see also," "notes," "references," and "external links." Otherwise, articles really ought to be prose, not lists. I suppose there are some examples of lists within articles that help to shed light on the subject of the article, but I really don't think that massively long lists of descendants helps to understand who Myles Standish was. I've noticed that some of the other Pilgrim biographies have gotten bogged down in awfully long descendants lists. I think this is unwieldy and unfortunate. I suppose my point being that I feel this article should be a biography and not a genealogy page. I think if someone wanted to create a List of Myles Standish descendants, that would probably be the better place. Historical Perspective (talk) 19:02, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Congrats to the editors here...
Hey, great job on bringing this up to snuff. As the primary editor at Plymouth Colony when it was being brought through the FA process, I really enjoyed reading this article and seeing its recent changes that brought it to FA standards. Congrats to all of the primary editors here. With 2 articles down, maybe we are on our way towards a featured topic? Anyhoo, the William Bradford (Plymouth governor) article is in fairly sorry shape. Maybe that one next? -- Jayron  32  04:14, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I spent a lot of time on this in March and enjoyed doing it. And I received a lot of help as it went through FA.  Likewise, I came across the Plymouth Colony page and was very impressed.  Good work there.  In fact, the example set by that article is part of what motivated me to give Myles Standish an overhaul.  I think working towards a featured topic is a brilliant idea.  I agree that Bradford could use some work.  Plymouth Rock and Mayflower Compact also strike me as articles needing work that could be added to the topic.  How to proceed?  I've never worked on a featured topic before.  Historical Perspective (talk) 12:16, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Massachusett Indian Tribe
the article makes reference to Massachusett - the Indian Tribe - not the State of Massachusetts. See the Wiki article Massachusett people so please do not change the spelling. Thanks. Mugginsx (talk) 20:25, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Historical background of Plymouth Colony
The cited "zero-revert" essay notwithstanding -- it is, after all, an essay, not a guideline or policy -- this information is not about the subject; it's a capsule background of Plymouth Colony. As such, anyone interested in Plymouth Colony can easily click the link in the lead. The only parts of this section pertaining to Standish involve his connection with the Pilgrims (which is already mentioned in the lead) and the statement that there was no evidence that Standish formally joined the Separatists (which is also already mentioned in the lead). This is Standish's article, not Plymouth Colony's, and per WP:CONTENTFORK -- which is an official content guideline -- this information doesn't belong in the article.   Ravenswing   00:24, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I happen to agree with you on this revert but I find it to be very unprofessional of you to be sarcastic about it. To expect a series of articles not to have some historical repetition is unrealistic. You are making the assumption that every Reader is going to read every article on the subject or that they have a greal deal of knowledge on the subject matter before they read the article.  There is also context where some repetition from related articles is necessary to a particular article or articles.   As for you remarks, a simple revert with a good edit summary is more civil and professional. What we may or may not know on a subject is immaterial to what should be entered in an article.  We should presume that the reader knowns nothing about the subject matter and to proceed  accordingly.  Wikipedia articles are, afterall created for Readers of Wikipedia, not for other editors.Mugginsx (talk) 15:26, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Mm ... I would expect, if you view good edit summaries with reverts as particularly valuable, for you to have supplied one beyond a bare link to an unofficial essay as explanation for your own revert. As far as the rest of your comments go -- we'll leave aside the incivility of taking offense at a rebuttal -- if you disagree with the provisions of WP:CONTENTFORK, I encourage you to advocate changing or deleting it on its talk page. Beyond that, I make no assumptions that people will read this article knowing (say) the history of Plymouth Colony in advance.  I do assume that rather than regurgitating every bit of information I think a reader might possibly want to know (which surely would include the Plymouth and Pilgrim articles, at the least), an interested reader can simply click on the appropriate hyperlinks for any side subject he sees about which he wishes to know more ... a skill set which we'd consider basic for any user of Wikipedia.   Ravenswing   19:15, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
 * As I said above, I agree with you in theory on your revert, and, I was not the editor who initially entered the information into the article though I reinstated it. I did that because your massive revert was unprofessional, especially since it was given a featured status.  A good editor would have used a scalpel, you used a shovel. Mugginsx (talk) 20:05, 13 August 2013 (UTC)
 * So hang on ... it's not that you disagree that the material doesn't belong in the article (although if that's the case, why were you arguing the other side?), it's that what ... I didn't put in an edit summary candycoating it in sweet enough terms for your liking, so you reverted a reversion with which you agreed on that basis alone ... and you're characterizing that as "unprofessional?" This from the fellow who reverted twice as much material from the Robert Cushman article, on July 14, without any edit summary at all?  (In point of fact, looking at your last 500 edits in articlespace, you provide edit summaries less than a quarter of the time.  Do you consider that, by your standards, professional?)   Ravenswing   08:31, 14 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I saw the problem and planned to come back later and read each line and keep what was important and take out what was not. I had and have other projects I am doing.  I do not have time or the inclination to look over all of your edits and come back to you with further criticism.  I don't believe you should have indiscriminately removed a large amount of material on what others have determined to be a featured article.  Sorry. Mugginsx (talk) 14:57, 14 August 2013 (UTC)

Barbara's last name
I checked with American Ancestors and they have NO last name recorded for Barbara but I see someone has already removed it. The reference is at http://www.americanancestors.org/pilgrim-families-myles-standish/.

Mullins. Myles Standish is my 3rd cousin. Hearried Barbara Mullins in Plymouth RMSTitanicFan1912 (talk) 08:04, 2 February 2023 (UTC)

Missing Legacy?
I believe he was also the namesake for Boston University's Myles Standish Hall and the former hotel of the same name. Should this be in the Legacy section? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wtentindo (talk • contribs) 05:55, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
 * There was also an interesting article in People 30 years ago about how difficult it was for one of Myles' direct descendants to live down the name. Might be worth including here somehow ... Daniel Case (talk) 23:15, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Introduction's link Pilgrim should point to "Pilgrim Fathers", or even "Mayflower Compact", but not "Pilgrim"
After all, the term in the introduction is capitalized to infer a specific group of pilgrims. Using Mayflower Compact would enable the reading to easily access from very useful and specific context for Standish's constituency. Jyg (talk) 02:58, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Other links in this article point to "Pilgrim (Plymouth Colony)" which currently redirects to "Pilgrim Fathers." Not sure why the first one points to the more general "Pilgrim." I've made the change. There is currently an open discussion on the "Pilgrim Fathers" talk page about renaming that article back to "Pilgrim (Plymouth Colony)" or "Pilgrims (Plymouth Colony)."--Historical Perspective 2 (talk) 10:59, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Jyg (talk) 17:06, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:09, 11 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Plimoth Plantation 2002.JPG

"Possibly the best source" for Standish's origins?
Is it justified to call Nathaniel Morton's 'short passage... in his New England's Memorial' "possibly the best source" regarding Standish's origins, when, as is clear from the excerpt from Standish's will provided just above this statement, Morton merely used this document (which, originating with Standish itself, either ought to itself constitute "possibly the best source" or alternatively be looked at as of dubious veracity), down to the exact wordings "surreptitiously detained from" (him) and (his) "great grandfather being a second or younger brother from the house of Standish"? It just seems that either Standish's will itself ought to take this position as "possibly the best source", or not, if he is considered unreliable in his claims; just because Morton represents another person writing ABOUT Standish doesn't make what he writes particularly more reliable, seeing as all he did was slightly rewrite what Standish included in his will. Just a thought! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.197.203 (talk) 20:31, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Good point. I've edited accordingly. Historical Perspective 2 (talk) 13:03, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

"Chorley Birthplace"
There's no doubt that Myles came from Chorley since one of the areas in Plymouth in America is called Duxbury, possibly named after his ancestral home, you can't say that that's a coincidence. Even Chorley is throwing 400 years of Myles Standish's Mayflower Journey in 2020. He didn't come from the Isle of Man, however he might have visited it.ChampionCynthia (talk) 21:31, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

What we're his parents names?
It does not say what his parents names were any reason why? 185.130.156.202 (talk) 10:14, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation of Douglas
I disambiguated the link to Douglas to Douglas, Isle of Man as there is only one place on the island with that name. This was reverted with an edit summary asking me to discuss this here. Douglas links to a dab page so I do not understand the objection to disambiguating the link.— Rod talk 10:51, 5 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I see a more recent edit changing this to Chorley so my comment is no longer an issue.— Rod talk 10:56, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Myles Standish