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Elizabeth Báthory

Countess Elizabeth Báthory de Ecsed (Báthori Erzsébet, ; Alžbeta Bátoriová; 7 August 1560 – 21 August 1614) was a Hungarian noblewoman and alleged serial killer from the Báthory family, who owned land in the Kingdom of Hungary (now Slovakia). Báthory and four of her servants were accused of torturing and killing hundreds of girls and women from 1590 to 1610. Her servants were put on trial and convicted whereas Báthory was imprisoned within the Castle of Csejte (Čachtice), where she died under mysterious circumstances.

The charges levelled against Báthory have been described by several historians as a witch-hunt. Other writers, such as Michael Farin in 1989, have said that the accusations against Báthory were supported by testimony from more than 300 individuals, some of whom described physical evidence and the presence of mutilated dead, dying and imprisoned girls found at the time of her arrest. Recent sources claim that the accusations were a spectacle to destroy her family's influence in the region, which was considered a threat to the political interests of her neighbours, including the Habsburg empire.

Stories about Báthory quickly became part of national folklore. Legends describing her vampiric tendencies, such as the tale that she bathed in the blood of virgins to retain her youth, were generally recorded years after her death and are considered unreliable. Some insist she inspired Bram Stoker's Dracula (1897), although Stoker's notes on the novel provided no direct evidence to support this hypothesis. Nicknames and literary epithets attributed to her include Blood Countess and Countess Dracula.

Early life and education

Elizabeth was born in 1560 on a family estate in Nyírbátor, Royal Hungary, and spent her childhood at Ecsed Castle. Her father was Baron George VI Báthory of the Ecsed branch of the family, brother of Andrew Bonaventura Báthory, who had been voivode of Transylvania. Her paternal great-grandparents were Anna Radziwiłł, a member of the influential Polish-Lithuanian Radziwiłł family, and Konrad the Red, Duke of Masovia and Warsaw, who was a member of the Piast dynasty. Her mother was Baroness Anna Báthory (1539–1570), daughter of Stephen Báthory of Somlyó. Through her mother, Elizabeth was the niece of Stephen Báthory (1533–1586), Prince of Transylvania, who became the ruler of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth as King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania. She had several siblings; her older brother Stephen (1555–1605) served as a Judge Royal of Hungary.

Báthory was raised a Calvinist Protestant, and learned Latin, German, Hungarian and Greek as a young woman. Born into a privileged noble family, she was endowed with wealth, education, and a prominent social rank. A proposal made by some sources in order to explain Báthory's cruelty later in her life is that she was trained by her family to be cruel.

As a child, Báthory had multiple seizures that may have been caused by epilepsy. At the time, symptoms relating to epilepsy were diagnosed as falling sickness and treatments included rubbing blood of a non-sufferer on the lips of an epileptic or giving the epileptic a mix of a non-sufferer's blood and piece of skull as their episode ended.

At the age of 13, before her first marriage, Báthory allegedly gave birth to a child. The child, said to have been fathered by a peasant boy, was supposedly given away to a local woman who was trusted by the Báthory family. The woman was paid for her actions, and the child was taken to Wallachia. Evidence of this pregnancy came up long after Elizabeth's death, through rumours spread by peasants; therefore, the validity of the rumour is often disputed.

Marriage and land ownership

In 1573, Báthory was engaged to Count Ferenc Nádasdy, a member of the Nadasdy family. It was a political arrangement within the circles of the aristocracy. Nádasdy was the son of Baron Tamás Nádasdy de Nádasd et Fogarasföld and Orsolya Kanizsai.

On 8 May 1575, Báthory and Nádasdy were married at the palace of Varannó (today Vranov nad Topľou, Slovakia). The marriage resulted in combined land ownership in both Transylvania and the Kingdom of Hungary.

Nádasdy's wedding gift to Báthory was his household, Castle of Csejte (Čachtice), situated in the Little Carpathians near Vág-Ujhely and Trencsén (present-day Nové Mesto nad Váhom and Trenčín, Slovakia). The castle had been bought by his mother in 1569 and given to Nádasdy, who transferred it to Elizabeth during their nuptials, together with the Csejte country house and seventeen adjacent villages.

After the wedding, the couple lived in Nadasdy's castle at Sárvár.

In 1578, three years into their marriage, Nádasdy became the chief commander of Hungarian troops, leading them to war against the Ottomans. Báthory managed business affairs and the family's multiple estates during the war. This role usually included responsibility for the Hungarian and Slovak people, providing medical care during the Long War (1593–1606), and Báthory was charged with the defence of her husband's estates, which lay on the route to Vienna. The threat of attack was significant, for the village of Csejte had previously been plundered by the Ottomans while Sárvár, located near the border that divided Royal Hungary and Ottoman-occupied Hungary, was in even greater danger.

Báthory's daughter, Anna Nádasdy, was born in 1585 and was later to become the wife of Nikola VI Zrinski. Báthory's other known children include Orsolya (Orsika) Nádasdy (1590 – unknown) who would later become the wife of István II Benyó; Katalin (Kata or Katherina) Nádasdy (1594 – unknown); András Nádasdy (1596–1603); and Pál (Paul) Nádasdy (1598–1650), father of Franz III Nádasdy, who was one of the leaders of the Magnate conspiracy against Holy Roman Emperor Leopold I. Some chronicles also indicate that the couple had another son, named Miklós Nádasdy, who married Zsuzsanna Zrinski. However, this cannot be confirmed, and it could be that he was simply a cousin or died young, as he is not named in Báthory's will from 1610. György Nádasdy is also supposedly the name of one of the deceased Nádasdy infants, but this cannot be confirmed. All of Elizabeth's children were cared for by governesses, as Báthory herself had been.

Ferenc Nádasdy died on 4 January 1604 at the age of 48. Although the exact nature of the illness which led to his death is unknown, it seems to have started in 1601 and initially caused debilitating pain in his legs. From that time, he never fully recovered, and in 1603 became permanently disabled. He had been married to Báthory for 29 years. Before dying, Nádasdy entrusted his heirs and widow to György Thurzó, who would eventually lead the investigation into Báthory's crimes.

Accusations
Between 1602 and 1604, after rumours of Báthory's atrocities had spread throughout the kingdom, Lutheran minister István Magyari made complaints against her, both publicly and at the court in Vienna. In 1610, Matthias II assigned György Thurzó, the Palatine of Hungary, to investigate. Thurzó ordered two notaries, András Keresztúry and Mózes Cziráky, to collect evidence in March 1610. By October 1610 they had collected 52 witness statements; by 1611, that number had risen to over 300.

Báthory is said to have begun killing daughters of the lesser gentry, who were sent to her gynaeceum by their parents to learn courtly etiquette. The use of needles was also mentioned by the collaborators in court. There were many suspected forms of torture carried out by Báthory.

Some witnesses named relatives who died while at the gynaeceum. Others reported having seen traces of torture on dead bodies, some of which were buried in graveyards, and others in unmarked locations.

Arrest
On 13 December 1612, Nikola VI Zrinski confirmed the agreement with Thurzó about the imprisonment of Báthory and distribution of the estate. On New Year's Eve 1612, Thurzó went to Csejte Castle and arrested Báthory along with four of her servants, who were accused of being her accomplices: Dorotya Semtész, Ilona Jó, Katarína Benická and János Újváry ("Ibis" or Fickó). According to Thurzó's letter to his wife, his unannounced visit found one dead girl and another living "prey" girl in the castle, but there is no evidence that they asked her what had happened to her. Although it is commonly believed that Báthory was caught in the act of torture, she was having dinner. Initially, Thurzó made the declaration to Báthory's guests and villagers that he had caught her red-handed. However, she was arrested and detained prior to the discovery or presentation of the victims. It seems most likely that the claim of Thurzó's discovering Báthory covered in blood has been the embellishment of fictionalized accounts.

Thurzó debated further proceedings with Báthory's son Paul and two of her sons-in-law, Nikola VI Zrinski and György Drugeth. Her family, which ruled Transylvania, sought to avoid the loss of Báthory's property which was at risk of being seized by the crown following a public scandal. Thurzó, along with Paul and her two sons-in-law, originally planned for Báthory to be sent to a nunnery, but as accounts of her actions spread, they decided to keep her under strict house arrest.

Most of the witnesses testified that they had heard the accusations from others, but did not see it themselves. The servants confessed under torture, which is not credible in contemporary proceedings. They were the king's witnesses, but they were executed. Ilona Jó and Dorottya Szentes had their fingers torn out with a pair of red-hot pincers and were then burned alive. Due to his youth and the belief that he was less culpable, János Újváry was executed by a much less painful method: beheading. Afterwards, his body was burned on the same pyre as Jó and Szentes. Another servant, Erzsi Majorova, initially escaped capture but was burned alive after being apprehended. Katarína Benická received a life sentence after evidence showed that she'd been abused by the other women.

The accusations of murder were based on rumours. There is no document to prove that anyone in the area complained about the Countess. In this time period, if someone was harmed, or someone even stole a chicken, a letter of complaint was written. Two trials were held in the wake of Báthory's arrest: the first was held on 2 January 1611, and the second on 7 January 1611.

The highest number of victims cited during the trial of Báthory's accomplices was 650, but this number comes from the claim by a servant girl named Susannah that Jakab Szilvássy, Báthory's court official, had seen the figure in one of Báthory's private books. The book was never revealed and Szilvássy never mentioned it in his testimony.

Confinement and death
On 25 January 1611, Thurzó wrote a letter to King Matthias describing that they had captured and confined Báthory to her castle. The palatine also coordinated the steps of the investigation with the political struggle with the Prince of Transylvania. She was detained in the castle of Csejte for the remainder of her life, where she died at the age of 54. As György Thurzó wrote, Elizabeth Báthory was locked in a bricked room, but according to other sources (written documents from the visit of priests, July 1614), she was able to move freely and unhindered in the castle, more akin to house arrest.

She wrote a will in September 1610, in which she left all current and future inheritance possessions to her children. In the last month of 1610, she signed her arrangement, in which she distributed the estates, lands and possessions among her children. On the evening of 20 August 1614, Báthory complained to her bodyguard that her hands were cold, whereupon he replied "It's nothing, mistress. Just go lie down." She went to sleep and was found dead the following morning. She was buried in the church of Csejte on 25 November 1614, but according to some sources due to the villagers' uproar over having the Countess buried in their cemetery, her body was moved to her birth home at Ecsed, where it was interred at the Báthory family crypt. The location of her body today is unknown but believed to be buried deep in the church area of the castle. The Csejte church and the castle of Csejte do not bear any markings of her possible grave.

Veracity of accusations
Several authors, such as László Nagy and Irma Szádeczky-Kardoss, have argued that Elizabeth Báthory was a victim of a conspiracy. Nagy argued that the proceedings against Báthory were largely politically motivated, possibly due to her extensive wealth and ownership of large areas of land in Hungary, which increased after the death of her husband. The theory is consistent with Hungarian history at that time, which included religious and political conflicts, especially relating to the wars with the Ottoman Empire, the spread of Protestantism and the extension of Habsburg power over Hungary. Moreover, Matthias owed a large debt to Báthory, which was cancelled after she was arrested.

There are counter-arguments made against this theory. The investigation into Báthory's crimes was sparked by complaints from a Lutheran minister, István Magyari. This does not contribute to the notion of a Catholic/Habsburg plot against the Protestant Báthory, although religious tension is still a possible source of conflict, as Báthory was raised Calvinist, not Lutheran. Farin’s book also alleged that there were numerous bodies and dead and dying girls found when the castle was entered by Thurzód. Szádeczky-Kardoss argues that the physical evidence was exaggerated and Thurzó misrepresented dead and wounded patients as victims of Báthory, as disgracing her would greatly benefit his political state ambitions.

Folklore and popular culture
The case of Elizabeth Báthory inspired numerous stories during the 18th and 19th centuries. The most common motif of these works was that of the countess bathing in her virgin victims' blood to retain beauty or youth. This legend appeared in print for the first time in 1729, in the Jesuit scholar László Turóczi's Tragica Historia, the first written account of the Báthory case. The story came into question in 1817 when the witness accounts (which had surfaced in 1765) were published for the first time. They included no references to blood baths. In his book Hungary and Transylvania, published in 1850, John Paget describes the supposed origins of Báthory's blood-bathing, although his tale seems to be a fictionalized recitation of oral history from the area. It is difficult to know how accurate his account of events is. Sadistic pleasure is considered a far more plausible motive for Báthory's crimes.

Báthory has been labelled by Guinness World Records as the most prolific female murderer, though the number of her victims is debated.

Ancestry
Báthory was the great-great-granddaughter of Barbara Aleksandrówna and Bolesław IV of Warsaw, and Mikalojus Radvila the Old; the 3rd great-granddaughter of Bolesław Januszowic; the 4th great-granddaughter of Vladimir Olgerdovich; and the 5th great-granddaughter of Algirdas.

Popular culture

 * Countess Dracula – 1971 horror film directed by Peter Sasdy
 * Les Lèvres Rouges – 1971 Belgian erotic vampire thriller directed by Harry Kümel
 * Immoral Tales – 1973 portmanteau film; the third story is 'Erzsébet Báthory'
 * Eternal – 2004 Canadian thriller about Elizabeth Kane, actually Countess Erzebeth Bathory
 * Stay Alive – 2006 supernatural horror movie featuring Elizabeth Bathory as the main antagonist, written and directed by William Brent Bell.
 * Bathory – 2008 historical drama written and directed by Juraj Jakubisko
 * The Countess – 2009 drama historical film written and directed by Julie Delpy
 * Blood Countess – 2020 fictional novel written by Lana Popović
 * Countess Bathory – the 1982 song by Venom
 * Bathory – Swedish metal band 1983–2004
 * Elizabeth – 2010 song by Swedish rock band Ghost
 * Cruelty and the Beast - 1998 concept album by English extreme metal band Cradle of Filth
 * Elizabeth Bathory - 1996 song by black metal band Dissection (band)

title: Elizabeth Báthory


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Talk:Christopher Columbus/Archive 1

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Request for info: what is "columbus' egg"? -- Tarquin 10:14 Jul 28, 2002 (PDT)

As far as I know it is the way in which Columbus made an egg stand up straight: smashing it so hard on the table it had a dent, allowing it to stand straight. This is probably just an urban legend or so, I don't know about that. In Dutch, the term "Het ei van Columbus" is used to describe a simple solution for a difficult problem (sometimes a too easy solution). Hope this helps. Jeronimo 14:06 Jul 28, 2002 (PDT) Columbus was not an explorer, he was a slave trader who got lost.

He wasn't??? -- ZxAnPhOrIaN 23:16 Oct 15, 2002 (UTC)

Adding factual info on Columbus's connection to the slave trade would be welcome. Simply changing the article from saying "explorer" to "slave trader" doesn't make it more informative.

 * Well it does make it more informative. Because Columbus wasn't an explorer. He was a slave trader. He was a guy who floated between Africa and Europe trading slaves. Thus he was a slave trader. How do you think he got so good at sailing in the first place? Nobody gives you a grant to go "explore" for Indian slaves, gold, and spices unless you have experience in "exploring" for slaves, gold, and spices.

 * No, it doesn't make it more informative-- There were thousands of people engaged in the slave trade; I suspect few of them warrent encyclopedia articles for that reason alone.  If you have documentation about Columbus's working as a slave trader before 1492, that would be interesting; I hope you'll share it, as that would be a contribution to the article.  However, Columbus's making Europe aware of the Americas is what he's most remembered for.  If Columbus's only purpose was the slave trade, he would have simply sailed down the cost of Africa, as other slave traders were doing, rather than heading out on a risky uncharted course west across the open ocean.

 * Yes, it does make it more informative, "Columbus was a slave trader who found a new continent" is far more informative than, "Columbus was a guy who found something new (ie. explorer) that found a new continent" The dude was a slave trader by profession. If you asked him he would say, "Im a slavetrader. I capture slaves and sell them."

 * I assume you can back that up with documents that you are about to cite. --Brion 00:42 Oct 20, 2002 (UTC)

Im getting kinda sick of the attitude of certain members of wikipedia. They seem to think that anything they don't already know is very dubious and they constantly demand "proof".

 * (I'm amazed that it surprises you that people are dubious when given "information" with no sources or evidence that is contrary to their current beliefs. If you ever looked around you, you would have long ago noticed that that's exactly what human beings do on a regular basis. --Brion 04:31 Oct 20, 2002 (UTC))

If you don't know Columbus was a slavetrader its a pretty good guess you don't know much about Columbus and I wish those who haven't done much study of such things would just admit it and back off. And when they do find something objectionable, I wish they would leave a note in talk, NOT CHANGE THE TEXT, and go do some homework. Lir 02:26 Oct 20, 2002 (UTC)

http://www.2think.org/ah.shtml

http://www.transformcolumbusday.org/faq.htm

http://home.earthlink.net/~krazhawk/Columbus_Day.html

http://www.geocities.com/amawek/HeroBarbarian.html

http://www.unitednativeamerica.com/columbus1.html

http://www.indiancountry.com/?595

http://www.trinicenter.com/kwame/2001/Jul/20010713.htm

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/explorers/mexico.shtml

http://www.csindy.com/csindy/2001-10-11/yourturn.html

http://www.csindy.com/csindy/2001-10-11/yourturn.html

They would even take Indians from place to place with them -- as dog food -- as a kind of mobile dog food. When they got to where they were going for the night, they would allow the dogs to tear one of them apart and eat them.

Wake up u idjits

Please try to remember that there are people here who know a LOT more than you on these topics. It is beyond ludicrous to object to stating that Columbus was a slavetrader. Lir 02:26 Oct 20, 2002 (UTC)

129.186.80.118 insists on putting "slave trader" as Columbus's occupation. This has been reverted more than once, but 129.186.80.118 won't leave it alone. --- Zoe

Well, there is at least a necessity for some discussion of Columbus' brutality towards the Arawaks, his enslavement of Indians, and his violent pursuit of gold, which are all documented in his own diary and are not in any dispute. The fact that Columbus is treated like a hero is extremely insulting to a great many millions of people, and the lack of any discussion of it in this entry is appalling. Will add it shortly. Graft 23:39 Oct 19, 2002 (UTC)

 * Hmm, so what is "Before he left on his second voyage he had been directed by Ferdinand and Isabella to maintain friendly, even loving relations with the natives. However during his second voyage he sent a letter to then proposing enslavement of them, specifically of the Caribs on the grounds of their aggressiveness. His petition was refused by the Crown. In February, 1495 Columbus authorized shipment of 500 Arawak slaves to Spain. Rounding up the slaves resulted in the first major battle between the Spanish and the Indians in the new world."? Only a small beginning, to be sure, but hardly "treating like a hero". --Brion 00:05 Oct 20, 2002 (UTC)

 * Possibly "The Myth of Columbus" or "Perceptions of Columbus" might be a good subject for a seperate article. There certainly was a lot of heroic mythologizing of him, especially centered around the 1892 anniversary. Infrogmation

Columbus was enslaving on his FIRST trip. He was enslaving before his first trip. There is not "at least a necessity for discussion of Columbus' brutality" there is a WHOLE LOT OF NECESSITY for it.

Re-reverting... Lir, if you can present evidence/sources showing that Columbus was not an explorer, this would be extreemly interesting, and I'm sure many people would be interested in seeing it. That Columbus advocated enslaving indiginous Amerinds from at least his 2nd voyage to the New World seems not to be in dispute. If you can show he was a slave trader before 1492, this would be of interest as well.

when you have a question-take a little time to do some work instead of bashing everything. Lir 02:32 Oct 20, 2002 (UTC)

 * This is a subject about which I know very little, but if I go to http://www.xrefer.org and search for Columbus I find two substantial articles on him, one from the Market House Books Encyclopaedia of the Renaissance and the other from The Macmillan Encyclopedia - neither of them mention slave trading, but Macmillan says he was a pirate in his youth. As I say, I'm pretty ignorant on this subject, but keen to learn - if you, Lir, or anybody else can point me towards a source that says he was a slave-trader, I'd be grateful. --Camembert

pirates tend to be slavers Lir 03:11 Oct 20, 2002 (UTC)

 * I'm new in this debate, but I do remember reading something about Columbus dealing in slaves. The question is how relevant it is. He was captain of a merchant vessel, and the merchandise included slaves (as well as gold and spices-slaves were just another merchandise). He sailed west looking for new trade routes. In that sense he was an explorer. He is remembered in history as an explorer, not as a slaver, so the introductory paragraph should reflect that. The role of the slave trade in his voyages could make an interesting new paragraph, but it has to be put in context of the times--slaves were one of the "items" he traded. Danny

oh i think thats a horrible idea. he wasnt just trading wool. he was trading slaves.

 * Simply posting a link or a source of that information would end this debate. It's not that hard. I don't know one way or the other myself. But if it's true, there should be some (respectable) websites out there that mention it with sources listed. In my opionion, negative things like this should not be included about people without some source listed. -jazz77

Okay, I've poked around online (it's 11 p.m. Saturday, the library is closed) for Columbus information, and the one clear fact is that Columbus's wife was the daughter of a navigator who worked for Prince Henry the Navigator. Various sources found by googling have him exploring around Thule, or trading to Madeira, or otherwise exploring or working on a sailing ship.

The slave trade is a long and continuing stain on human history; unless there's evidence that Columbus was particularly complicit in this, it might be worth mentioning, but shouldn't be in the first sentence. Vicki Rosenzweig

http://www.2think.org/ah.shtml

http://www.transformcolumbusday.org/faq.htm

http://home.earthlink.net/~krazhawk/Columbus_Day.html

http://www.geocities.com/amawek/HeroBarbarian.html

http://www.unitednativeamerica.com/columbus1.html

http://www.indiancountry.com/?595

http://www.trinicenter.com/kwame/2001/Jul/20010713.htm

http://www.enchantedlearning.com/explorers/mexico.shtml

http://www.csindy.com/csindy/2001-10-11/yourturn.html

http://www.csindy.com/csindy/2001-10-11/yourturn.html

 * I followed a few of those links. Here are some comments:

 * I have no faith in the Kwame page (that's at trinicenter.com), after the first paragraph:

" At the outset, it must be stated quite clearly that we Afrikan people, are the original, majority people with original ideas. Europeans are only an inherited, transmitting global minority people. Europeans did not invent, create or discover culture nor civilisation; they just inherited them and in some cases, stole them. Afrikans never lived in caves and in the icebox during the Ice Age for 20,000 years." This is not history, it's myth, and racist myth at that. (In some sense we are all Africans, yes--but that's not what he's saying.)

actually I agree with that page and Im not african. Europeans did not invent, create, or discover culture. it was all imported and stolen and moved there. Lir 03:17 Oct 20, 2002 (UTC)

 * "csindy.com" appears to be an alternative newsweekly, longer on editorials than reporting, and certainly not any kind of scholarly source. enchantedlearning.com tells us that Columbus enslaved some of the natives when he got to the Americas, but describes him as an explorer. Vicki Rosenzweig

lol-i donno-if not everyone, just about everyone of those links pretty clearly says, "Columbus was a slavetrader". Not a whole lot I can do if you people don't take the time to read anything. Lir 03:17 Oct 20, 2002 (UTC)

 * OK, we're getting off the subject here - the point is not whether Columbus traded slaves or not, the point is whether we should describe him as a "slaver" or an "explorer". As Danny and others say, he is remembered as an explorer, so should be described as such in the first paragraph - the opening of the article is to introduce the subject, and introducing Columbus as a slaver is missing the point somewhat. To make a musical analogy (something I do know a bit about) - the famous conductor Herbert von Karajan was a member of the Nazi party, but if I was going to write an article on him, I would write "Herbert von Karajan was a German conductor" not "Herbert von Karajan was a German Nazi". Of course, if Columbus was a slave trader, the article should talk about this, but it's not what he's famous for, and so putting it in the first paragraph as if that's his claim to fame is misleading. --Camembert

 * Is a celebrity's life decided by what the majority of the populace thinks his life was like? --Ashibaka

 * Of course not, but it's surely true that the source of somebody's fame is decided by that. Anyway, I'm not talking about that - what I'm saying is that the first paragraph of an article should concisely sum up the subject, and if the article is on a person, it should state why the person is deserving of an article (there is a policy page which says just this). In this case, I believe that means saying that Columbus was an explorer who was the first European to stumble across the Americas. As I say, it's obvious that if he traded slaves, that should also be talked about in the article, but the fact is that slave trading is not what he is famous for. --Camembert

But see, he wasn't an explorer. He didn't hike the Himalayas before he went to America. No, he traded slaves. Now granted, he traded other things. If you want to say he was a trader of wools and slaves, that is fine. Maybe he traded nayls too. Who knows. But the fact that he was a slavetrader kinda explains why all those Indians died and so it should be mentioned. He was a slavetrader who did some exploring in the search for slaves. Above all, slavery was on his mind, which is why he didn't do a whole lot of exploring beyond, "Where is the gold and why aren't you mining it for me? Lir 03:37 Oct 20, 2002 (UTC)

Thank you, you just refuted your own claim. According to what you just said, his primary interest was gold, not slaves. Slaves were a means to get the gold. As for his trading history, he was NOT collecting slaves in Iceland, but he spent considerable time there. Danny

Should we call him a goldcollector instead? Lir 03:43 Oct 20, 2002 (UTC)

 * I don't understand this assertion that Columbus "was'nt an explorer" - just what was he doing going across the Atlantic if not exploring? You must have a different definition of exploration to me. --Camembert

Just cuz u discover something by accident doesnt make you an explorer.

 * Well, since he was exploring new routes to get slaves to dig up gold, why not just call him an explorer. Danny

 * wut do you think he was exploring? the water? by his reckoning it went straight to somewhere that was already known. you dont explore by taking a new route to the gas station. you don't get to call yourself an explorer if you find a gold nugget while you are out driving around selling slaves in your slavemobile.

Yeah, Unfortunately in this debate, we have to sacrifice our sacred cows for the facts. Columbus the explorer is good enough for the second grade book report, but not here. we dont have his W2 forms to find what his main occupation was, and therefore, we go by how he made his money. Westernised concepts of discovery are not entirely false, theyve just been sanitized(add to my new stub here by the way). so keepit up, people and dont let any ignorant propagandist accuse y'all of revisionism. -Sv

 * Stevertigo, you confused me. Which side of this debate are you on? -- Zoe

Columbus the explorer is good enough for the second grade book report, but not here. Lir 03:50 Oct 20, 2002 (UTC)

 * Glib rhetoric will get you no where. The second grade book report gives a bibliography of websites, rather than real sources accepted in an academic setting. Danny

Danny, its strange that you state this when you know he was a slavetrader.

It's interesting. If you go to yahoo and type, "Columbus traded slaves" you get all these sites that say he was a slavetrader. Pages! Then if you type "Columbus didn't trade slaves" you get all these sites that say he was a slavetrader. Heh.

 * Funny, when I do that on Google, I get ZERO sites returned. And funny enough, when I do that at yahoo, I also get ZERO sites returned.  -- Zoe

give it some thought zo, sleep on it and get to it manana. dont rely on web sources, until the wp has 12M entries and takes over everything --Sv

 * Well said, if the internet is good enough as accurate sources, we don't need scholastic comments on specific topics. Claiming the internet as the primary sources by some wikipedians over years of scholastic research by the experts was probably the reason driving some contribtors away from wikipedia, like JHK.
 * Everyone has to agree that slave trading for digging gold was part of Columbus' career though he is not remembered as a slave trader. So in the first paragraph there should be few words about this. Only "explorer" is not enough of accurately describing his career. Gold explorer and trading slaves to dig new ores could be an option. Ktsquare

Excuse me, but I was replying to Lir's comments that, in her words, ''It's interesting. If you go to yahoo and type, "Columbus traded slaves" you get all these sites that say he was a slavetrader. Pages! Then if you type "Columbus didn't trade slaves" you get all these sites that say he was a slavetrader. Heh.'' I tried that, and did not get the results she claimed I would get. -- Zoe

 * I know you are but you have obviously misunderstood my point. I'm just trying to read the page as if I don't know anything about Columbus, which would be the case for many web surfers. If he didn't trade slaves, why in the first paragragh: searching for a new route to the Indies where he hoped to obtain slaves, gold and spices. and in a subsequent paragraph: In February, 1495, Columbus authorized shipment of 500 Arawak slaves to Spain. Doesn't that suggest he could be trading slaves in his career? If Lir's claim is false, the paragraphs should be rephrased to take away any hint on slave trading or make some clarifications that he was not a slave trader. My query was just to possibly get you thinking about a logical way that this can be done. Kt2

 * Ktsquare, you're not understanding my point. I am not denying that Columbus shipped slaves.  I am trying to get someone to submit any proof that he did so prior to 1492, and that it was his major occupation.  -- Zoe

When Columbus went out on his second voyage he brought with him quite a few ships and men with the expectation that there was substantial gold on Hispaniola. There wasn't and in order to have something to send back he sent slaves. As to Columbus' involvement in slavetrading prior to his voyage to America, likely he had some contact with it, but I'm not up on the details. Any coasting voyage south along the African coast would have brought him in contact with it.

Perhaps we should refer to him as Cristoforo Colombo?

 * Even better, let's write the whole article in Spanish! Oh, wait a minute, this is the English wikipedia.  I suppose we'd better carry on writing it in English.  And using the name that English readers use for him.  Too bad.

 * Naming conventions (anglicization)

Now hold on. Are we going to take Germans named Franz and rename them Frank? Grow up.

 * I think the guidelines are clear. We would only rename Germans named Franz as Frank if they were well known by the name "Frank" in the English speaking world. I think there should be a redirection page though ... ah someone has just added one -- Chris Q 10:10 Oct 21, 2002 (UTC)

And I think the guidelines should be changed. People should learn the proper names of places and things, not the bastardized English hack.

 * So all Wikis should refer to Germany as Deutschland? And the Spanish Wiki should say "London" instead of "Londres"?  Or should we use the names that people know them by?  -- Zoe

I have removed the following text:

 * The mediterranean island of Corsica, birthplace to Napoleon, was for centuries part of the Genoese empire. Some Corsicans claim that Columbus, who was indeed Genoan but perhaps did not necessarily come from the city of Genoa, was in fact a native of Corsica, but because the often subversive elements of the island conferred its inhabitants a negative reputation, masked his exact heritage.

The reason I removed this, is that there is quite a number of non-standard theories on Columbus's origins. The Corsican one is one of them (I assume), but certainly not the most important one. This could probably return once we discuss those theories, but I think it is slightly misleading to add it without such a mention. Andre Engels

 * Hmm.. I've no issue with you changing it or adding other details. But to simply delete this because you "assume" it's one among many theories indicates (1) you're not so familiar with the theories as to know which is a "leading" theory (if you've ever been to Corsica, the people of Calvi are pretty convinced, and it's not that obscure of a theory), and (2) you're not willing to place it into a larger context, which I would certainly welcome and appreciate.

 * I tacked it onto the end of the article as an alternative, with some slight explanation. If you wish to add a portion about alternative theories, that's one thing.  But I think summarily deleting, because you're simply not willing or able to place it in such a context, it is just slightly rude.  In no way is this theory purported as the only, and I think I treat the theory with a rather neutral point of view, explaining its somewhat circular logic.  And certainly this active debate about the real birthplace of Columbus does have a place somewhere, no?

I agree. I think its really rude the way some people just go around deleting stuff. Lir 10:51 Oct 21, 2002 (UTC)

 * Well, while I appreciate your support, Lir, I think you're wrong on this one with your slave debate. I think you made very little attempt to promote what you said in an neutral way...  I don't like the article the way it is now about slaves, and I think that it should, if anything, be treated separately, with an examination of the evidence.

---

Christopher Columbus should be re-direction to Cristoforo Colombo-NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND
 * I understand your point; however, the standard practice is to use the name by which the person, place, or thing is most commonly known in English, not vice-versa. For example, the article on Castilla-León is at Castile-Leon, the one on Rheinland-Pfalz is at Rhineland-Palatinate, etc. Besides, one of Chris' few authentic signatures says "Xpoual Colon" - should we move it to Cristóbal Colón? -

Yes, Cristóbal Colón is what this page should be titled.

 * It's true, we do call him Johann Sebastian Bach (not John Sebastian) and Juan Carlos I of Spain (not John Charles). There is no general rule as to which foreign persons and things have their names imported into English and which don't (Horace but Catullus). But the fact is that some are more commonly referred to by some names and others by others. And I fully expect that the French article on London is at "Londres" and the Spanish article on Queen Elizabeth I is at Isabel I. -- Montréalais

Herein, I grumble: I know we are disagreeing about a lot of things, but can people please try not to introduce random errors (like "an penninsula" instead of "a peninsula"). In other words, take the time to proofread your chances. (Or leave a note on my talk page asking me to look it over--but if you do, I'll apply my own ideas of what ought to be there.) Vicki Rosenzweig

I've run into a number of people who intensely despise Columbus. They accuse him of genocide, torture, slavery and generally being a BAD GUY -- not a hero, who should have a holiday like Martin Luther King.

Until today, I assumed these people were merely the dupes of demagogues; that without bothering to check source they just swallowed whatever propaganda was fed to them, because of a generalized anti-Western bias. (Reminds me of Prof. Jeffries and his theories of ancient Egypt.)

But here are a few quotes from on-line sources I dug up today.

Genocide

 * American Indians and other ethnic groups have complained that Columbus was a slave trader who committed genocide.
 * "We, the Taino people, know Cristóbal Colón very well. He called our people Indio. The word sounds like In God one with God, yet he committed mass genocide against 8 Million of my family members."

Slave trade

 * Jack Weatherford is an anthropologist at Macalaster College in St. Paul, Minn. His most recent book is "Indian Givers."
 * In Examining the reputation of Christopher Columbus, Jack Weatherford says that Columbus "seized 1,200 Taino Indians from the island of Hispaniola, crammed as many onto his ships as would fit and sent them to Spain, where they were paraded naked through the streets of Seville and sold as slaves in 1495. Columbus tore children from their parents, husbands from wives. On board Columbus' slave ships, hundreds died; the sailors tossed the Indian bodies into the Atlantic."

--Ed Poor

 * Yes. I'd said earlier I thought that Columbus's enslaving Amerinds from his 2nd voyage on was well known, and the topic of dispute was if he'd been a slave trader earlier, but I guess his actions from the mid 1490s on are news to some folks here.  -- Infrogmation

Edit conflicts
This next section of talk is just for fixing inadvertent deletions amoung cooperating contributors.

Flat Earth digression
Many sailors in Columbus's time believed in a flat earth and thus feared falling of the world's edge during the proposed journey, this was not an obstacle to his getting the financial backing he needed for his voyage. The Earth's spherical was no longer disputed among educated people of his time. What was disputed was Columbus's estimate of the distance needed to reach the Indies travelling westward. According to the calculations of contemporary experts, the Indies were too far away to make Columbus's plan worth considering.

Ironically, the experts were right about the distance of the Indies, but what neither Columbus or the experts knew was that there was an intervening continent, which Columbus was extremely fortunate to find.

--Ed Poor

I plan to start a page on perceptions of Columbus-- the mythologizing of him as a hero in the late 19th century, and use of him as an archetype for either good or bad in different contexts. I'd like feedback on what the best name for this page might be. Possibilities: Myths of Columbus; Christopher Columbus/Mythology; Christopher Columbus, Perceptions of etc. Others?

I've put a rough draft at Christopher Columbus/Mythology so you can get an idea of what I'm talking about. I'm very open to moving it to a different name if people think something else would be better. -- Infrogmation

 * Can we call it something that doesn't involve creating a subpage? -- Zoe

 * Yes, certainly. See Talk:Christopher_Columbus/Mythology.  I'm currently leaning towards Perceptions of Columbus, but I'll give it a bit more time to see if I get more feed back.   -- Infrogmation

Infrogmation: I think your idea is very good. To my knowledge, Columbus was only mythologized, and Columbus Day was established, in the late 1800s as a way to honor Italian Americans in particular and Catholics in general. It is a shame that these groups have been victims of discrimination in the US, and also a shame that Columbus and Columbus Day have become such important symbols of their pride, because it makes it hard to discuss Columbus critically, and to criticize Columbus Day, without offending many Italian Americans. Hopefully, distiinguishing between the "real" Columbus and the myth will help make it easier to do the former without doing the latter.

Ed: Sailors did know that the earth was round, it really is very obvious to anyone living near an ocean or large sea. You seem to want to make an historical claim, what is your historical evidence? As far as I know the "flat earth and Columbus" claim was only first made by Washington Irving, who wanted to establish the New World as a symbol of the triumph of reason against European supersticion. What was your evidence?

Zoe, in a similar vein can you provide the evidence people have for claiming Columbus was Basque or a converso? The claim that we are not exactly sure of Columbus's origin is fairly uncontroversial. But specific claims about his origin are. After all, people can claim anything they like. In my opinion, simply including the claims just clutters the article. But if youcould provide the reasons/evidence people cite for these claims, that would really add important substance to the article, Slrubenstein

 * I don't have the book handy right now, but I remember reading this in something called "Lies My Teacher Told Me" which was about (factual) errors in high school history textbooks. The point was that most of the textbooks claimed he was Italian and ignored the controversy.  I remember it said he could have been Spanish, Basque, Sardinian, Corsican, Sicilian, Genoese and Greek (IIRC).  Obviously, this isn't a source but if somebody could find it (I'll look in the local library tonight or tomorrow), it's a reputable, well-documented book  that is about the very subject of the mythologization of Columbus (he calls it heroification).  The author is James Loewen and here's his homepage (which is at uvm.edu--a university, so he'd be a good source)

 * I have Lies My Teachers Told Me, but I can't put my hand on it right now. That may have been where I read it.  You can also see http://www.terrarubra.org/coloma.htm for more suggestions of his background.  -- Zoe

 * Infrogmation, I think Heroification of Christopher Columbus might be a better title (though Mythology of Christopher Columbus isn't too bad) and you may want to check out the same book. The entire opening section is entirely about how and why people forget the bad things in Columbus' life.  An article on heroification in general might be interesting; the same book discussed the process as it applies to Helen Keller and Woodrow Wilson (because people forget she was a radical, revolutionary socialist and he was a vicious racist). Tokerboy 21:30 Oct 21, 2002 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the feedback. A general article of heroification might be of interest, but I personally don't think I want to try tackling that right now.  I think Columbus is an unusual case, in that you had a real historical person who had an influence, and then centuries later you had a semi-legendary figure only vaguely based on history which had it's own seperate influence.  -- Infrogmation

those of us, who aren't anglophiles, have decided Colombus should be called by his proper name. I suggested Cristofor Colombo which appears to be his birth name, assuming he was Genoese which he probably was, but as a concession to those who argue he was spanish and our of respect for how he signed his name we now reccomend Cristóbal Colón

 * Lir claims that the policy of using the Anglo version of a name has changed as of yesterday. Is this a unilateral change that she made up in her head, or is there SOME shred of information that she could be using to justify this?  - Zoe
 * I think she was just being a smartass. --KQ

The "true origins" section says that not much is known about his early life, but then in the "early life" section, we learn even the names of his parents and the number of siblings. This needs to be straigthened out. AxelBoldt 04:48 Oct 22, 2002 (UTC)

I think I've sorted out the multiple copies of the page. Somewhere in the renaming war, one (or more) of my reverts from Lir's misspelled Spanish to English was, er, misspelled English. Everything should now be back at Christopher instead of Cristopher. --Brion 04:50 Oct 22, 2002 (UTC)

Lee Crocker said (on the mailing list) that he blocked Lir's IP and user name. I assume this unilateral ban is temporary, and I'm disappointed to see it happen so soon after Jimbo had asserted that only he would do bannings.

Lir is not a "vandal" -- but a contributor who disagrees with other contributors. I just spent an hour yesterday trying to fix up the Columbus article myself -- trying to minimize any addition of my own POV and focusing mostly on grammar, sequence and neutrality. I haven't seen any edits since then that warrant an immediate ban.

I read all Lir's talk page comments. Nothing anti-Wikipedia there. She says Columbus was a slave-trader, and she won't shut up about it; well, as I suppose LDC would agree, we have free speech on the talk pages.

Also, I did a little googling and found 2 online sources that say Columbus transported slaves from the New World to Europe. Unless he "donated" the slaves to a museum or something, he probably got paid -- and slave transport + got paid = slave trader.

I had never heard about this in grade school or even high school. I always thought Columbus was a pure, noble adventurous hero -- who well deserves an annual holiday. But if he kidnapped people into slavery, I gotta downgrade his heroism at least one notch (on my own personal list of historical figures).

And the article should say that "some sources" indicate that Columbus initiated the Transatlantic slave trade.
 * I do not think that including "some sources" would resolve the issue here, because the question is not whether or not Columbus brought slaves back across the Atlantic to Europe -- to my knowledge, everyone acknowledges that he did. The questions are, was this his primary objective, and was this the primary effect of his voyages?  I do not think it was his primary objective, noir do I think it was the primary effect.  When people talk of the transatlantic slave trade, they are generally referring to the movement of people bought or captured in Africa taken to the Americas as slaves.  One reason for this trade (as it were) is that most attempts to enslave N. Americans failed.  If you take words at their literal meaning, I guess you could say Columbus initiated the TAST because he was indeed the very first to cross the Atlantic with slaves.  But TAST should not be taken literally; it does not refer to any transportation of slaves but to something a little more specific.  So although I do think the matter should be treated in depth and detail, I do not think it should be in the first paragraph.

I was going to see if I could straighten this out, but I guess Brion, Slr and others have done so already.

What's up with the sudden ban? --Ed Poor 14:11 Oct 22, 2002 (UTC)

Hello Ed, as far as I understood, the reason why Lir was banned is that she called Zoe a racist and began adding all the names of contrahents in this discussion to the "Vandalism in Progress" page. It was not due to her opposing view of the topic. -- Cordyph
 * And moving Christopher Columbus to Cristóbal Colón, I think more than once. --rmhermen

Assessment comment
Substituted at 20:19, 2 May 2016 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Christopher Columbus/Archive 1


text:
Kling Klang Studio

Kling Klang (also spelled as Klingklang) is the private music studio of the band Kraftwerk. The name is taken from the first song on the Kraftwerk 2 album. The studio was originally located at Mintropstraße 16 in Düsseldorf, Germany, adjacent to Düsseldorf Hauptbahnhof, but in mid-2009 moved to Meerbusch-Osterath, around 10 kilometers west of Düsseldorf. The band also operate a record label named Kling Klang, which they use to release their music.

Background
Kling Klang (an onomatopœia; in English: ding dong) began as a studio in 1970; the band marked this as the real beginning of Kraftwerk. The studio began as an empty room in a workshop premises located in an industrial part of Düsseldorf. The building exterior was clad in yellow tiles with a large electric shuttered doorway leading to an enclosed courtyard. On the right was a loading stage used by an electrical installation company that used the upper floor. The studio was accessed through a small anteroom. The main studio room was fitted with sound insulation and measured about sixty square feet. Later on other adjoining rooms were used for things like making instruments such as home made oscillators. The basement of the studio was used to store old instruments and machines. The band never threw anything away, and subsequently used the older equipment to recreate sounds.

When first using the studio, the band recorded with stereo tape machines and cassette recorders. These master tapes were then taken to a commercial recording studio for the final mix down. Part of the reason for this was so the band could self-produce their albums. The PA equipment at this time was self constructed and consisted of plywood bass horns and cast aluminium mid range horns. In 1971 Kraftwerk was still without a drummer, so the group purchased a cheap drum machine. By treating the sounds with echo and filtering they used the drum machine to record rhythm tracks for their second album. During the making of their third album, they purchased their first commercial synthesisers for the studio, the Minimoog and EMS Synthi AKS. Other equipment at this time included an Echolette Tape Echo. Wolfgang Flür had joined the band at this time and was using a custom built electronic drum system. At the time of his first visit, a small acoustic drum kit was in the studio. It was in 1973 that the studio was christened Kling Klang. After Karl Bartos joined the band, more studio equipment was designed by all four band members. A full-time engineer was employed to assist with the designs and new equipment purchases.

In 1976 Kraftwerk began recording Trans-Europe Express at Kling Klang studio. Hütter and Schneider had commissioned Matten & Wiechers, the Bonn based synthesizer studio, to design and build two "Synthanorma" (32-step music sequencers). The "Synthanorma" controlled the band's Minimoog creating the album's rhythmic sound.

The band members had begun spending eight to ten hours a day in the studio, regarding themselves as "musical workers". That time was spent designing a complete portable studio setup, including stage backdrops, curtains, lighting, staging and a stereo PA system. Portable nineteen inch equipment frames were designed and linked to other equipment using custom made wiring looms used for quick dismantling while touring. This new system of mobile equipment was designed for the Computer World tour and replaced the previous "messy" system. Kraftwerk spent three years designing the newer system. The newer studio could be set up in about two hours and was far easier to transport whilst touring. The Kling Klang 12k PA system was also designed to be portable and matched the grey colour of the equipment frames.

Studio relocation
In September 2007, the Neuss-Grevenbroicher Zeitung reported that Ralf Hütter had purchased property space in a proposed new commercial property development ("Mollsfeld") in Meerbusch-Osterath, about 10 kilometers west of Düsseldorf, with the intention of building a new sound studio and office there, so that Kraftwerk's recording, merchandise, and administration can be managed from a single location. The move to the new premises was completed in mid-2009 and, as well as sound recording, the new Kling Klang includes a rehearsal space for the preparation of concert performances.

Kling Klang as a record label and music publishing rights
Starting in 1975, Kraftwerk released its records on the vanity label Kling Klang Schallplatten. Later and current releases are credited to Kling Klang Produkt, or simply Klingklang. EMI and Warner Music Group, along with their subsidiaries, have promoted and distributed the records in various territories. Kling Klang Music and No Hassle Music existed as music-publishing companies for a small period of time in the US, being associated with ASCAP. In 1999, the band signed a new worldwide deal with Sony/ATV Music Publishing. In 2013, the band's entire recorded catalogue went to Warner Music; a rare example, given that the catalogue of Kraftwerk's German label, EMI Electrola, was consolidated when EMI was sold to Universal Music.

Kling Klang Konsumprodukt GmbH
Kraftwerk also sells all of its band merchandise through Kling Klang Konsumprodukt.

title: Kling Klang Studio


text:
Talk:California Institute of Technology

RfC on capitalization of buildings
There is an RfC going on on whether the names the South Houses and North Houses at Caltech should be capitalized. The question is whether these names are proper nouns, and whether the amount of sources capitalizing them is a "substantial majority". Your comments and !votes are appreciated. Antony–22 (talk⁄contribs) 03:49, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Introduction
After doing some research, I agree with ElKevbo that general mention of university prestige should be removed from the introduction of Wikipedia articles. Caltech's small size, however, speaks to its selectivity for which it's well-known. It's a feature of the research institution (not necessarily the university at the undergraduate level) and underlines all the institutional proceedings at Caltech per the article. I think this, at the very least, should remain. BorderlineRebel (talk) 14:16, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

 * I haven't argued that "general mention of university prestige should be removed from the introduction of Wikipedia articles." In alignment with current consensus, I object to the inclusion of material that makes claims of prestige based only on a Wikipedia editor's interpretation of ephemeral sources, particularly when this is a topic that is so well studied and documented by scholars and experts. ElKevbo (talk) 22:23, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
 * ElKevbo I apologize for my misunderstanding. Check the page now. I'm really trying to give good information without suggesting prestige. The current intro doesn't suggest this. Let me know what you think! BorderlineRebel (talk) 01:13, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

In media and popular culture
Would San Andreas (film) count in any way? 149.20.252.132 (talk) 14:02, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

How about Mission Impossible (the TV series) and the steam tunnels? Does that merit mention? — Preceding unsigned comment added by BigMac31 (talk • contribs) 17:52, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Error
My apologies for a few seconds of erroneous changes, all reverted back. Please feel free to delete any track of the changes. K Kalan (talk) 02:41, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

Rankings
The introductory sentence is contradicted by the associated table as well as the proceeding text. The text currently reads "Caltech is consistently ranked ... within the top four in the United States, by major global ranking systems." even though the highest national ranking is 7th. Individual programs are often in the top four, and perhaps that is what the original contributor intended.

I don't want to edit such a large and frequently visited page, but I would think modifying the sentence to either refer to program rankings or changing the "top four" phrase would resolve this. 162.140.67.21 (talk) 17:51, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Years ago, Caltech ranked high, often first, in rankings based on value. They kept tuition lower than many comparable schools, which was part of the ranking. As well as I know, they don't do that anymore. That said, I don't know the definition of major global ranking systems. Caltech is most often ranked within the US. Gah4 (talk) 21:38, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Years ago, Caltech ranked high, often first, in rankings based on value. They kept tuition lower than many comparable schools, which was part of the ranking. As well as I know, they don't do that anymore. That said, I don't know the definition of major global ranking systems. Caltech is most often ranked within the US. Gah4 (talk) 21:38, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Misleading link?
When it says, "The following week, Ross McCollum, president of the National Oil Company, wrote an open letter to Dabney House stating that in light of their actions he had decided not to donate one million dollars to Caltech," the National Oil Company words link to the article on national oil companies; as in state-operated or backed oil firms. But McCollum was president of a modestly-sized corporation called  'National Oil Company' which doesn't have its own article. Doesn't the link, therefore seem to be falsely suggesting that McCollum was in fact president of an American national oil company? 2601:645:1:64D0:89C4:231B:15B6:37B7 (talk) 21:34, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

 * Thanks. Since we don't seem to have an article for the intended organization, I've removed the link entirely. ElKevbo (talk) 22:51, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:California Institute of Technology


text:
Preston-Potter Hollow, New York

Preston-Potter Hollow is a census-designated place (CDP) in Albany County, New York, United States. The population was 366 at the 2010 census.

Preston and Potter Hollow are two hamlets in the town of Rensselaerville, located in the southwestern corner of Albany County. The communities are near the border of Greene County.

History
The Potter Hollow District No. 19 School and Sidney White House are listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

Geography
Preston-Potter Hollow is located at 42.43139°N, -74.22306°W (42.431357, -74.223113).

According to the United States Census Bureau, the CDP has a total area of 10.1 sqmi, all land.

It is also the topographical location of Potter Hollow.

Demographics
As of the census of 2000, there were 374 people, 152 households, and 103 families residing in the CDP. The population density was 37.0 PD/sqmi. There were 235 housing units at an average density of 23.2/sq mi (9.0/km2). The racial makeup of the CDP was 94.65% White, 3.48% African American, 0.27% Asian, and 1.60% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.27% of the population.

There were 152 households, out of which 29.6% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 50.0% were married couples living together, 13.2% had a female householder with no husband present, and 32.2% were non-families. 27.0% of all households were made up of individuals, and 11.8% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.46 and the average family size was 3.00.

In the CDP, the population was spread out, with 27.5% under the age of 18, 7.0% from 18 to 24, 21.9% from 25 to 44, 30.5% from 45 to 64, and 13.1% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 42 years. For every 100 females, there were 90.8 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 99.3 males.

The median income for a household in the CDP was $33,929, and the median income for a family was $37,188. Males had a median income of $32,708 versus $29,583 for females. The per capita income for the CDP was $16,679. About 7.6% of families and 10.2% of the population were below the poverty line, including 12.6% of those under age 18 and 7.4% of those age 65 or over.

title: Preston-Potter Hollow, New York


text:
Ravena, New York

Ravena is a village in Albany County, New York, United States. The population was 3,271 in the 2020 census an increase of 3 over the 2010 census. The village is in the southeast part of the town of Coeymans.

History
The village of Ravena incorporated in 1914. Prior to its incorporation, it was known as "Coeymans Junction," but the name was changed to "Ravena" to avoid confusion with another hamlet in the town, "Coeymans Landing."

In 1894, a post office was established in Coeymans Junction bearing the name Ravena. The name source of the post office (and ultimately the village) is unclear. Some believe that the village's proximity to cliffs on its western boundary lent to the area being referred to as the ravine. Others feel that a brand of flour, Raven, was the inspiration behind the name.

The Israel Shear House was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1996.

Demographics
According to the 2000 U.S. Census, there were 3,369 people, 1,380 households, and 892 families residing in the village. The population density was 2,515.7 PD/sqmi. There were 1,487 housing units at an average density of 1,110.4 /sqmi. The racial makeup of the village was 92.82% White, 2.91% African American, 0.27% Native American, 0.65% Asian, 0.03% Pacific Islander, 0.98% from other races, and 2.34% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 4.16% of the population.

There were 1,380 households, out of which 33.0% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 48.3% were married couples living together, 13.4% had a female householder with no husband present, and 35.3% were non-families. 29.5% of all households were made up of individuals, and 12.4% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.41 and the average family size was 2.99.

In the village, the population was spread out, with 25.7% under the age of 18, 8.3% from 18 to 24, 31.3% from 25 to 44, 20.7% from 45 to 64, and 14.1% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 36 years. For every 100 females, there were 90.1 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 85.9 males.

The median income for a household in the village was $42,875 and the median income for a family was $54,875. Males had a median income of $40,351 versus $26,865 for females. The per capita income for the village was $20,145. About 8.4% of families and 8.9% of the population were below the poverty line, including 12.3% of those under age 18 and 5.4% of those age 65 or over.

Education
The village of Ravena contains Ravena-Coeymans-Selkirk High School and Middle School, as well as Pieter B. Coeymans Elementary School in the Hamlet of Coeymans, one of two elementary schools in the district. The second elementary school, A.W. Becker Elementary, is located in the hamlet of Selkirk in the town of Bethlehem.

In addition to formal schooling, educational and entertainment information is available at the RCS Community Library which is located at 95 Main Street in the village of Ravena. The library serves the residents of the Ravena-Coeymans-Selkirk Central School District in southeastern Albany County, New York State and is a part of the Upper Hudson Library System. The library also provides in-house use of computers, photocopy and fax services to the public.

Cement plant
The village of Ravena is home to a Holcim (Formerly Lafarge) Cement Plant. The plant was originally Atlantic Cement, but was bought out in the early 2000s. On July 11, 2008, the Albany Times Union reported that Holcim's (Formerly Lafarge) Ravena plant "was the greatest source of mercury emissions in New York from 2004 to 2006". According to the story, plans have been made to upgrade the plant to reduce the mercury emissions. A second story, published the following day, stated that the factory had emitted 400 pounds (181 kg) of mercury annually from 2004 to 2006.

As of 2016, Holcim is completing a $300 million upgrade to its Ravena plant that includes a new dry-process cement kiln that will replace two 50-year-old wet-process kilns. The new kiln will use less coal and emit fewer pollutants, including a 66% reduction in mercury emissions, while increasing production capacity. It will also take less water from the Hudson River, getting most of its water from the nearby limestone quarry that feeds the plant.

Faith Plaza
Faith Plaza is the local shopping center in Ravena. The plaza used to house a movieplex and arcade which were converted into a strip mall. The origins of the former Plaza Del Sol was an A&P grocery store. In the late 2004 Grand Union left Faith Plaza and was replaced by a Best Yet Market. Best Yet Market left in late 2005 and the store was remodeled and opened again in the spring of 2006 as Ravena Shop 'n Save (supplied by Hannaford). Faith Plaza also holds a CVS/pharmacy, National Bank of Coxsackie, as well as other various shops and restaurants.

Media
The News-Herald is Ravena's main newspaper, published weekly, which has designation for publication of legal notices.

Recreation
Mosher Park is Ravena's main outdoor recreational area. It contains facilities for baseball, football, swimming, tennis, basketball, and picnics, with a skateboard park currently under development, though as of 2021 the skatepark has yet to be built. Mosher Park was named after Dr. Mosher, a Ravena-based General Practitioner from the 1950s through 1980s. The pool and tennis complex at Mosher replaced the Ravena Pool in the early 1970s.

Law Enforcement
Police protection is provided by the Coeymans Police Department. The Ravena Police Department was merged with the Coeymans Police Department to improve efficiency. Eventually, it was determined to close the Ravena Police Department by referendum, at which point the Coeymans Police Department became the sole law enforcement agency for both the Village of Ravena and Town of Coeymans.

Emergency Medical Services
Emergency Medical Services (EMS) are provided by the Ravena Rescue Squad. The Ravena Rescue Squad, formerly known as the Ravena Hose Company Rescue Squad, is a career agency. Formerly, the Ravena Rescue Squad was a volunteer agency, but due to lack of membership, it was decided by its board of directors to hire paid Emergency Medical Technicians (EMT). Currently, there are two (2) EMT's on duty at all times. The Rescue Squad runs out of the EMS station on Bruno Boulevard in Ravena.

Fire and Emergency Services
Fire protection is provided to the Village of Ravena by the Ravena Fire Department as well as the Coeymans Fire Department. Both the Ravena Fire Department and the Coeymans Fire Department is a 100% volunteer organization. Along with fire protection, the Ravena Fire Department provides the residents of Ravena technical rescue services including vehicle extrication and technical rescue capabilities. Firefighters from the Ravena Fire Department are also trained to deal with certain levels of Hazardous Materials. Some Emergency Medical Services (EMS) are also provided by the fire department when the Ravena Rescue Squad is unable to respond due to being dedicated at other incidents. However in the event of a fire alarm activation at Ravena-Coeymans-Selkirk High/Middle School during school hours Ravena Fire Department, Coeymans Fire Department, Coeymans Hollow Fire Department, As well as Cornell Hook and Ladder (located in New Baltimore) will be dispatched all departments that have been named are volunteer departments.

title: Ravena, New York


text:
Rensselaerville, New York

Rensselaerville is a town in Albany County, New York, United States. The population was 1,826 at the 2020 census. The town is named after Stephen Van Rensselaer.

History
Rensselaerville was once part of the Manor of Rensselaerswyck; as such, the people who farmed the land were technically leaseholders of the patroon under a feudal system, first as part of the Dutch colony of New Netherland, then under the English colony, and then U.S. state, of New York. Some of the earliest settlement in Rensselaerville was along the five Native American paths that crossed the town in the early 18th century. The southwestern corner along one of these, that connected the Hudson River to the Schoharie Valley was the first section of the town to be settled, this would be circa 1712. This path was also the one used during wars between the Stockbridge Indians and those at Schoharie.

In 1787, the patroon had a survey and census taken in order to enroll squatters and collect the quitrent required of settlers on his lands.

Rensselaerville was created from part of the town of Watervliet in 1790. In 1795, the northern part of the town was lost to create the new town of Berne. Additional territory was lost from the eastern part of the town upon the formation of the town of Westerlo in 1815.

In 1795, after Shays' Rebellion, Daniel Shays moved from Massachusetts to Preston Hollow, a hamlet in Rensselaerville. His son became one of the leading citizens of the town.

The Conkling–Boardman–Eldridge Farm and Rensselaerville Historic District are listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

Geography
According to the United States Census Bureau, the town has a total area of 61.9 sqmi, of which 61.5 sqmi is land and 0.4 sqmi (0.63%) is water.

The southern town line is the border of Greene County, and the western town boundary is the border of Schoharie County. The town is located in the northern Catskill Mountains.

Catskill Creek and its tributaries, Lake Creek, Fox Creek, Tenmile Creek, Greene Kill and Eightmile Creek, flow through the town.

Demographics
At the 2000 census, there were 1,915 people, 779 households and 527 families residing in the town. The population density was 31.2 per square mile (12.0/km2). There were 1,187 housing units at an average density of 19.3 per square mile (7.5/km2). The racial makeup of the town was 95.98% White, 1.98% African American, 0.05% Native American, 0.16% Asian, 0.78% from other races, and 1.04% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 1.20% of the population.

There were 779 households, of which 29.0% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 55.5% were married couples living together, 7.6% had a female householder with no husband present, and 32.3% were non-families. 25.2% of all households were made up of individuals, and 10.7% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.43 and the average family size was 2.93.

24.4% of the population were under the age of 18, 5.8% from 18 to 24, 24.0% from 25 to 44, 30.5% from 45 to 64, and 15.2% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 42 years. For every 100 females, there were 103.3 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 99.0 males.

The median household income was $42,391, and the median income for a family was $51,607. Males had a median income of $34,563 and females $30,298. The per capita income was $20,921. About 2.8% of families and 5.3% of the population were below the poverty line, including 6.2% of those under age 18 and 3.4% of those age 65 or over.

Communities and locations in Rensselaerville

 * Cooksburg – A hamlet in the southwestern part of Rensselaerville near the town line.
 * Medusa – A hamlet near the town line, located east of Cooksburg.
 * Potter Hollow – A hamlet near the southern town line, west of Cooksburg.
 * Preston Hollow – A hamlet in the southwestern part of the town, north of Cooksburg.
 * Rensselaerville – A hamlet in the northeastern part of the town.
 * Shufelt Corners – A location north of Rensselaerville hamlet.
 * Smiths Corner – A hamlet at the eastern town line.

Notable people

 * Smith A. Boughton, leader of the Anti-Rent War
 * Mortimer M. Jackson, jurist and diplomat
 * Rufus Lumry, circuit preacher, outspoken abolitionist, and early organizer of the Wesleyan Methodist Church
 * Molly O'Neill, food writer and cookbook author, had a home in Rensselaerville where she hosted summer writing workshops
 * William Patterson, former US Congressman
 * Richard Prince, American artist
 * Andy Rooney had a summer home in Rensselaerville
 * Henry Chester Waite, Minnesota lawyer, banker, and politician

title: Rensselaerville, New York


text:
Voorheesville, New York

Voorheesville is a village within the town of New Scotland in Albany County, New York, United States. It is a suburb of Albany and part of the city's historic metropolitan area. The population was 2,841 at the 2020 census. The village is named after a railroad attorney, Alonzo B. Voorhees.

The village is situated by the northern town line of New Scotland.

History
The area was settled by farmers sent by the Rensselaer family. In the 19th century, their descendants rebelled against the patroon system, fomenting a Rent War.

In 1864, two railroads were built through the town of New Scotland, headed west from the Hudson River, both trying to find a way around the Helderberg Mountains. The Albany and Susquehanna Railroad and the New York, West Shore and Buffalo Railroads crossed one another in a farm field. Subsequently, a village grew up around the crossroad and in 1899 the village of Voorheesville, named for the aforementioned railroad attorney, was incorporated. In 1870, the A&S was leased to the Delaware and Hudson Canal Company. These railroads crossed at South and North Main, and for a significant period of time there was a passenger train that came through Voorheesville. Voorheesville for several years in its early days (it was originally referred to as Union Depot before being named after Alonzo B. Voorhees) was something of a tourist attraction. The village boasted a hotel, the Friars Grove Hotel, located right across Grove Street from the train station. Just next to the hotel was a brick oven bakery, and further up Grove was a cider mill. The mill was bought out by Duffy Mott and Mott's Cider before eventually closing. The village also claimed the renowned Harris House, a tavern and hotel for the "weary traveler", a foundry that closed after a fire whose remnants still stand today, and Vly Creek (which runs through the entire village before connecting to the Normanskill Creek in Guilderland) was dammed up near the present day elementary school as a swimming hole. Historically until 2003/2004, the village railroad crossing was unique only like one other location in the United States in that four different sets of railroad tracks ran through the village and crossed at one point. The double tracked CSX (former NYC, PC, Conrail) line is still frequently used, while the remains of the D&H line west of the village is leased to SMS Rail lines, which services the Northeast Industrial Park under contract with Canadian Pacific. The West Shore line remained unused. In 2003 and 2004 the D&H line east of the village was torn up, leaving the village crossing a part of history.

Demographics
According to the 2010 Census, the racial makeup of the village was 96.5% White, 0.8% African American, 0.2% American Indian or Alaska Native, 1.5% Asian, 0.0% Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander, and 0.1% Some Other Race. Of the 2,789 person total population, 97 were not White alone or in combination.

Education
Two schools in the village, Voorheesville Elementary School and Clayton A. Bouton High School service the village itself, most parts of the Town of New Scotland and the hamlet of Slingerlands, with some students coming from the outskirts of the Town of Guilderland, Town of Bethlehem, and Village of Altamont. The elementary school serves students in grades kindergarten through fifth grade, while Clayton A. Bouton High School serves sixth grade through twelfth grade, with a separate wing for the middle school.

title: Voorheesville, New York


text:
Watervliet, New York

Watervliet ( or  ) is a city in northeastern Albany County, New York, United States. The population was 10,375 as of the 2020 census. Watervliet is north of Albany, the capital of the state, and is bordered on the north, west, and south by the town of Colonie. The city is also known as "the Arsenal City".

History
The explorer Henry Hudson arrived in the area of Watervliet around 1609. The area was first settled in 1643 as part of the Rensselaerswyck patroonship, under the direction of Kiliaen van Rensselaer. In 1710, Derrick van der Heyden operated a ferry from the Bleeker Farm (near 16th Street) across the Hudson River to Troy. Troops during the Revolutionary War used this ferry in 1777 on their way to Bemis Heights and Stillwater for the Battle of Saratoga. In 1786, a second ferry was started at Ferry Street (today 14th Street) over to Troy. The town of Watervliet was founded in 1788 and included all of present-day Albany County except what was in the city of Albany at the time. Because so many towns had been created from the town of Watervliet, it is regarded as the "mother of towns" in the county. In 1816, as the first post office was erected, corner of River and Ferry streets (Broadway and 14th Street), it took the name Watervliet.

In the mid-1700s, the area of Watervliet was also known as Bought, or Boght, named after the Dutch word "Boght," meaning "bend" or "corner." This is reflected in contemporary Revolutionary War pension service records.

The location of the future city was taken by the village of Gibbonsville (1824) and its successor West Troy, and the hamlet of Washington (later Port Schuyler). The farm owned by John Bleeker, stretching north from Buffalo Street (Broadway and 15th Street) to the farm owned by the Oothout family near 25th Street was purchased by Philip Schuyler, Isais Warren, Richard P. Hart, Nathan Warren, and others in 1823; they named it West Troy. Gibbonsville was the farm of James Gibbons (which he purchased in 1805), which stretched from North Street (8th Street) to Buffalo Street (15th Street). Washington was settled sometime before 1814 and was the area south of Gibbonsville and today the area of Watervliet south of the Arsenal; it became known as Port Schuyler in 1827. Although Gibbonsville and West Troy sat side by side (West Troy lying on Gibbonsville's northern boundary), there was a rivalry between the two and each named and laid out their streets with no regard to the street names and grids of the other. In 1824 Gibbonsville became incorporated as a village, and in 1836 this was repealed when West Troy became incorporated as a village including Gibbonsville and Port Schuyler; and in 1847 the Watervliet post office changed its name to West Troy. In 1830, Gibbonsville had 559 people, West Troy 510, and Port Schuyler 450.

In 1865, present-day Watervliet was included in the Capital Police Force within the Troy District. This attempt at regional consolidation of municipal police failed and in 1870 the West Troy Police Force was organized. By 1895, what was known as the town of Watervliet was reduced to the present-day city of Watervliet (village of West Troy at the time), town of Colonie, and the village/town of Green Island. Colonie would split off in 1895, and the city of Watervliet was incorporated in 1896 at the same time that Green Island became a town of its own.

In the early 19th century Watervliet became a major manufacturing community much like its neighbors Cohoes and Troy, thanks to bell foundries. The first was located on Water Street (Broadway), between 14th and 15th Streets, by Julius Hanks, and the first bell foundry in Gibbonsville was established in 1826 by Andrew Menelly, Sr. This would be the genesis of the Meneely Bell Foundry, which made thousands of bells that are still in use today from Iowa to the Czech Republic.

In 1813, the U.S. Federal Government purchased from James Gibbons 12 acre in Gibbonsville, in 1828 another 30 acre, along with later purchases from S. S. Wandell and others. This land was used as the site for the Watervliet Arsenal, founded in 1813 during the War of 1812, and is the sole manufacturing facility for large caliber cannon. John C. Heenan, U.S. heavyweight boxing champion and contender for the world title in 1860, was once employed at the Arsenal. The main route of the Erie Canal from Buffalo to Albany ran through Watervliet, and because the canal bypassed the city of Troy, the city's business community decided a "short cut" was needed for convenient access to the Erie Canal without having to go through the Albany Basin. A side-cut to the Hudson was at Watervliet's present-day 23rd Street (the Upper Side cut) finished in 1823, and another just south of the Arsenal (the Lower Side cut). A weigh station and a center for paying canal boat operators was here as well. As a result of canal boat crews being paid at the end of their trip, the areas around the side cut was once famous for gambling, saloons, and prostitution; there were more than 25 saloons within two blocks, with names like The Black Rag and Tub of Blood. The neighborhood around the side cut had the nickname of "Barbary Coast of the East", Buffalo being the "Barbary Coast of the West". In the 1880s, Watervliet had a reputation for over 100 fights a day and a body once in the week in the Canal.

Also linking Watervliet to the transportation network of the region was the Watervliet Turnpike and the Albany and Northern Railway. The Watervliet Turnpike Company in 1828 built present-day New York State Route 32 from the northern boundary of Albany north to the northern limit of Gibbonsville (now Broadway and 15th Street). The Albany and Northern Railway was built in 1852 connecting Watervliet to Albany, with a depot on Genesee Street; a few years later a new depot was built on Canal Street (Central Avenue) but was abandoned in favor of returning to the original location in 1864.

As of February 2020, the Mayor of Watervliet is Charles Patricelli, a Democrat who won the 2019 election unopposed.

The Ohio Street Methodist Episcopal Church Complex, St. Nicholas Ukrainian Catholic Church, Watervliet Arsenal, and Watervliet Side Cut Locks are listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

St. Patrick's Church controversy
In September 2011, the Roman Catholic Diocese of Albany decided to close St. Patrick's Roman Catholic Church, citing physical deterioration of the building. The parish was merged with Immaculate Heart of Mary Parish, and was unable to afford the estimated $4 million cost to rehabilitate the building. Built in 1889, St. Patrick's Church was the tallest point in the city. The church was closely modeled on the Upper Basilica in Lourdes, and many Watervliet residents considered it a defining piece and landmark of the city's architecture.

In March 2012, a developer filed a proposal to rezone the property from residential to business status so that it could raze the church (as well as an attached rectory, former school building, and six private residences) in order to make way for a Price Chopper grocery store. Some members of the community responded to the proposal to raze the church with criticism and legal challenges,   but on November 20, 2012, the Watervliet City Council voted unanimously to allow the rezoning. The deconstruction of the church was completed in May 2013, and a new Price Chopper supermarket opened on the site in July 2014.

Geography
According to the United States Census Bureau, the city has a total area of 3.8 km2, of which 3.5 km2 is land and 0.3 km2, or 8.79%, is water.

Watervliet is bordered on three sides by the town of Colonie (on the north by the hamlet of Maplewood, on the west by the hamlets of Latham and Mannsville, and on the south by the hamlet of Schuyler Heights). The northeastern corner of Watervliet is bounded by the town and village of Green Island. South of Green Island, Watervliet is bounded on the east by the Hudson River (which is the boundary between Albany County and Rensselaer County). The city of Troy is across the river from Watervliet. Watervliet is mostly flat, but begins an extreme slope in the center of its most westerly edge (especially between the Watervliet Arsenal and 19th Street, an area once called "Temperance Hill").

Demographics
As of the census of 2020, there were 10,375 people and 5,070 households residing in the city. The racial makeup of the city was 76.9% White, 9.0% African American, 4.7% Asian, 2.3% from other races, and 7.1% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 8.0% of the population.

There were 5,070 households, out of which 26.3% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 32.9% were married couples living together, 16.5% had a female householder with no husband present, and 45.4% were non-families. 38.3% of all households were made up of individuals. The median income for a household in the city was $46,345. 21.2% of the population were below the poverty line, including 21.7% of those under age 18 and 5.7% of those age 65 or over.

Notable people

 * Richard B. Bates, member of the Wisconsin State Assembly
 * Butch Byrd, defensive back, Buffalo Bills
 * T/Sgt. Peter J. Dalessandro, Medal of Honor recipient
 * Rebecca Cox Jackson (1795–1871), African-American freedwoman, Shaker, itinerant minister, and spiritual autobiographer
 * Isaac J. Lansing, president of Clark Atlanta University, pastor, author
 * Francis W. Martin (1878-1947), first District Attorney of the Bronx
 * Leland Stanford, founder of Stanford University, lawyer, president of Southern Pacific Railroad

title: Watervliet, New York


text:
Westerlo, New York

Westerlo is a town in Albany County, New York, United States. The population was 3,194 at the 2020 census.

The town is on the southern border of Albany County and is served by New York State Route 143.

History
Westerlo was formed from parts of the Towns of Coeymans and Rensselaerville in 1815. It is named after Rev. Eilardus Westerlo (1738–1790), who was minister of the Reformed Protestant Dutch Church (now called The First Church) in Albany, NY, from 1760 to 1790.

Geography
According to the United States Census Bureau, the town has a total area of 58.5 sqmi, of which 57.9 sqmi is land and 0.7 sqmi  (1.14%) is water.

Demographics
As of the census of 2000, there were 3,466 people, 1,326 households, and 970 families residing in the town. The population density was 59.9 PD/sqmi. There were 1,537 housing units at an average density of 26.6 /sqmi. The racial makeup of the town was 98.27% White, 0.55% African American, 0.12% Native American, 0.20% Asian, 0.14% from other races, and 0.72% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.92% of the population.

There were 1,326 households, out of which 33.9% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 60.6% were married couples living together, 7.8% had a female householder with no husband present, and 26.8% were non-families. 22.2% of all households were made up of individuals, and 9.4% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.61 and the average family size was 3.06.

In the town, the population was spread out, with 26.5% under the age of 18, 5.4% from 18 to 24, 28.9% from 25 to 44, 26.6% from 45 to 64, and 12.6% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 39 years. For every 100 females, there were 95.3 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 95.2 males.

The median income for a household in the town was $48,488, and the median income for a family was $55,660. Males had a median income of $39,516 versus $28,393 for females. The per capita income for the town was $21,000. About 4.4% of families and 5.4% of the population were below the poverty line, including 5.9% of those under age 18 and 2.5% of those age 65 or over.

Hannay Reels, the nation’s largest manufacturer of hose reels, is located in Westerlo.

Communities and locations in Westerlo

 * Basic Estates – Residential Development off County Route 401 overlooking the Basic Creek Reservoir
 * Bramans Corners – A location at the northern town line.
 * Dormansville  – A hamlet near the eastern town line.
 * Ford Corners – A location north of Westerlo hamlet.
 * Lambs Corner – A hamlet in the southwestern part of the town.
 * Newry – A hamlet at the southern town line.
 * Snyder's Corners – A location northwest of Westerlo village.
 * South Westerlo – A hamlet near the southern town line.
 * Westerlo – The hamlet of Westerlo is near the center of the town.

title: Westerlo, New York


text:
Westmere, New York

Westmere is a hamlet in the town of Guilderland, Albany County, New York, United States. Since the 1970 Census, a census-designated place (CDP) has been established with the name of Westmere for tabulating the population of what the census has defined as the boundaries for Westmere. The population was 7,284 at the 2010 census. It is a suburb of the neighboring city of Albany. U.S. Route 20 (Western Avenue) bisects the community and is the major thoroughfare and main street. Along Western Avenue are numerous strip malls, shopping plazas, and commercial buildings, with residential use on the side streets to the north and south. Crossgates Mall, the Capital District's largest shopping mall, is in Westmere's northeastern corner.

History
Westmere as a settled place is of recent origin, though being along the Great Western Turnpike, built in 1799, it was always a place migrants passed through on their way from Albany and New England to the western frontier. A toll gate existed on the turnpike roughly where Highland Estates is located. Even before the turnpike was built, 300 wagons (and sleighs in the winter) passed through in 1796 what would later become Westmere. After World War I, development began to encroach on the rural wooded area with mostly bungalows and cottages. This would accelerate in the post-war era after World War II, and in the 1940s is when the name Westmere would be given to this area. Westmere was the fastest growing section of the town of Guilderland in this period.

Geography
As a hamlet, the borders of Westmere are only loosely defined. As a census-designated place (CDP) however, the borders (as of the 2010 census) are exactly defined as the city of Albany to the north, then following New York Route 155 (State Farm Road/New Karner Road) as the western border. The southern border follows Doctor Shaw Road from its intersection with NY 155, then turns northeast onto Veeder Road until its termination with Johnston Road. At Johnston Road, the border turns north and follows it until it takes a right onto Church Road and follows it to the intersection with U.S. Route 20 (Western Avenue). The border then takes a right on Western Avenue to the Governor Thomas E. Dewey Thruway (Interstate 87) and goes north to the Albany city line. These borders can change from census to census. According to the United States Census Bureau in 2000, the CDP has a total area of 3.2 sqmi, all land.

Demographics
As of the census of 2000, there were 7,188 people, 3,162 households, and 1,903 families residing in the CDP. The population density was 2,259.8 PD/sqmi. There were 3,287 housing units at an average density of 1,033.4 /sqmi. The racial makeup of the CDP was 88.75% White, 3.62% African American, 0.04% Native American, 6.25% Asian, 0.03% Pacific Islander, 0.43% from other races, and 0.89% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 2.00% of the population.

There were 3,162 households, out of which 26.6% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 48.1% were married couples living together, 9.2% had a female householder with no husband present, and 39.8% were non-families. 32.4% of all households were made up of individuals, and 10.3% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.25 and the average family size was 2.90.

In the CDP, the population was spread out, with 21.1% under the age of 18, 6.6% from 18 to 24, 31.7% from 25 to 44, 24.9% from 45 to 64, and 15.7% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 40 years. For every 100 females, there were 90.6 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 87.8 males.

The median income for a household in the CDP was $55,000, and the median income for a family was $61,827. Males had a median income of $45,769 versus $32,937 for females. The per capita income for the CDP was $28,790. About 3.0% of families and 4.1% of the population were below the poverty line, including 2.5% of those under age 18 and 4.4% of those age 65 or over.

Fire Protection
The Westmere Fire Department was formally incorporated on December 31, 1935 for the protection of the residents of the community. In 1937, the Westmere Fire District was recognized by the New York State Comptroller. Today, the Westmere Fire Department continues to be 100% volunteer, with over 50 active firefighters volunteering at the busiest fire department in the Town of Guilderland. The department operates with three fire engines, a tower-ladder, one heavy-rescue truck, a multi-purpose pickup truck, and two command vehicles.

title: Westmere, New York


text:
Allen, New York

Allen is a town in Allegany County, New York, United States. The population was 493 at the 2020 census. The town is named after Ethan Allen.

The Town of Allen is in the north-central part of Allegany County.

History
The Town of Allen was founded in 1823, formed from part of the Town of Angelica. In 1829 more territory was added from the Town of Birdsall.

Geography
According to the United States Census Bureau, the town has a total area of 36.6 sqmi, of which 36.4 sqmi is land and 0.2 sqmi  (0.60%) is water.

Demographics
As of the census of 2000, there were 462 people, 178 households, and 132 families residing in the town. The population density was 12.7 people per square mile (4.9/km2). There were 411 housing units at an average density of 11.3 per square mile (4.4/km2). The racial makeup of the town was 98.92% White, 0.43% Native American, and 0.65% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 0.22% of the population.

There were 178 households, out of which 30.9% had children under the age of 18 living with them, 62.9% were married couples living together, 4.5% had a female householder with no husband present, and 25.8% were non-families. 22.5% of all households were made up of individuals, and 6.7% had someone living alone who was 65 years of age or older. The average household size was 2.60 and the average family size was 3.01.

In the town, the population was spread out, with 25.1% under the age of 18, 6.9% from 18 to 24, 29.4% from 25 to 44, 25.5% from 45 to 64, and 13.0% who were 65 years of age or older. The median age was 39 years. For every 100 females, there were 123.2 males. For every 100 females age 18 and over, there were 123.2 males.

The median income for a household in the town was $27,386, and the median income for a family was $29,688. Males had a median income of $26,528 versus $21,563 for females. The per capita income for the town was $13,830. About 16.4% of families and 18.7% of the population were below the poverty line, including 19.2% of those under age 18 and 14.3% of those age 65 or over.

Communities and locations in Allen

 * Allen Center – A hamlet on County Route 15 (Basswood Hill Road), centrally located in the town.
 * Aristotle – A hamlet near the south town line on County Route 15(Basswood Hill Road).
 * Polish Mountain - Located near Allen Lake.
 * State Road – A location near the eastern town line.
 * West Allen – A location southwest of Allen Center.
 * Wigwam Creek – A stream flowing through the west part of the town.

title: Allen, New York