text:
Talk:The Breakfast Club

Ally Sheedy's Character / Allison Reynolds
Who made up that her character is a/The Basket Case? In the trailer for the film she is referred to as an Recluse. ...and what is a reclusive kids "A recluse is someone in isolation who hides away from the attention of the public, a person who lives in solitude, i.e. seclusion from intercourse with the world" - Wiki. Its obvious she's not mental, but just a social weirdo. At the beginning of the film she is shown as being shy. She is a misfit, a weirdo...not a basket case (amentally ill person)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.196.189.64 (talk) 18:24, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

 * The term "basket case" is used in the "essay" at the beginning of the film, and actually spoken by Sheedy's character in the revised essay at the end. If you saw a version that used "recluse" instead, you must have watched an alternate version. MaxVolume (talk) 08:48, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Contadiction over Judd's age
Judd is claimed to have been 24 at the time of filming at the start of the article, and 25 further down. Which is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.247.92 (talk) 09:13, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Suicide by flare gun?
I though Brian got detention for firing the flare gun at his shop project. Was this a TV edit? Shippo 01:26, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I've made it clearer. Brian brings the gun to school.  It goes off accidently in his locker, and the ensuing fire destroys said elephant.  The school takes a dim view of things, and Brian gets Saturday detention.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:21, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Ending
There's no mention of the definitely cliched ending - the rebel ends up with the princess, the jock ends up with the (now) beautiful girl, and the brain ends up alone. For a movie that does its best to point out and defy stereotypes, it is decidedly ironic that the ending itself exemplifies stereotypes. This surely deserves some mention. 24.86.144.101 09:36, 12 June 2007 (UTC)JvP

 * I totally agree! 24.6.66.193 18:54, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually they didn't end up with anybody--remember the library scene when they asked who'd talk to who on Monday? Brian and Alison were the only ones said they would talk to the others/each other.

 * Well, no. It's true that Claire, as I recall, expressed a likelihood that they would revert back to their old ways, but that was before the end of the movie and certainly none of the characters were bound by her observation. 24.6.66.193 18:54, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

 * So do you guys think that any of them talked on Monday? It would be nice to believe that they all continued to talk to each other. Has the author ever said anything about that Monday? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dabney

Title
anyone knows why is The Breakfast Club called what it's called? Atriarch 17:48, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I've been wondering that myself. --The Lone Bard 16:21, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

The movie is called The Breakfast Club because that is how the letter at the end of the film is signed.I don't know why they sign the letter that. The Title is a reference to the famous Chicago Radio Show: Don McNeil's Breakfast Club. Madonna was the drummer in an early incarnation of the eighties group also called "The Breakfast Club".

The film starts as if each character  is a world unto themselves but the letter at the end unites them as one entity. The letter at the end of the film is signed breakfast club because that is the way the school, i.e. the principal views them, as these stereotypes not as real people. "Breakfast" symbolizing the start of the day, who they were at home. At the start of detention they each defend their stereotypes as in the pivotal scene where Bender runs down what everyone brought to eat. Their lunches symbolize their stereotypes showing how the "brainwashing" is already beginning to break down. As the day progresses and deeper conflicts confronted, their stereotypes of the brain, princess, criminal, etc...are rendered meaningless yet this is still how the world chooses to see them as "The Breakfast Club"; who they were at the beginning of the day not what they transformed themselves into by day's end. If the film began with a depiction of each of their "breakfast" routines all this would be too overtly obvious but the film intelligently begins with showing how each one gets to school. By signing it The Breakfast Club they acknowledge the false perceptions the world has of them and they are content with that and don't need to convince anyone otherwise except themselves. This also directly relates to the David Bowie quote at the opening sequence.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Wasahmachine (talk • contribs) 18:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
 * According to IMDb: "The film's title comes from the nickname invented by students and staff for detention at New Trier High School, the school attended by the son of one of John Hughes' friends. Thus, those who were sent to detention were designated members of "The Breakfast Club". "The Breakfast Club" at that school probably took its name in turn from the title of American radio's longest running network entertainment show, broadcast from Chicago, 1933 to 1968." Trvr3307 02:41, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Talk Page Etiquette
This may be just nitpicking but the talk page itself is pretty unclean. Make sure to make headings for new topics and sign your name after you add to this. --Torourkeus 05:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Not to mention spellchecking section titles. *changes "Ediquite" to "Etiquette"* --KittyCollier 19:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

The movie was filmed in March of '84 but not sure of the exact day.

The events of the movie took place on Saturday, March 24, 1984. Politician818 00:29, 13 May 2006 (UTC) "The movie is also known for its disappointing ending, in which Ally Sheedy's character renounces her maverick ways and succumbs to the mainstream female image (makeup, pink dress, rather submissive, etc.).": This is way out of NPOV! --Daniel C. Boyer 17:20 Oct 9, 2002 (UTC)

 * Patrick's revision resolves this problem very well. --Daniel C. Boyer

While not making an argument here about the editing out of reference to my drawing in Surrealist Subversions, it was not a movie poster! I think people should read more carefully. --Daniel C. Boyer 14:46 10 Jul 2003 (UTC)

The last paragraph of the article is VERY confusing. What is the name of the alleged sequel and the 'sequel of sorts'? Without some reference to the movies names or name it makes little sense nor serves any purpose.
 * It's referring to Not Another Teen Movie. Paul Gleason makes a cameo appearance as Principal Vernon in a scene that intentionally parodies TBC. The paragraph should be deleted. --Dynamite Eleven 02:33, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

This took place in SHERMER, not Sherman.

Barry Manilow question
What was the point behind John Bender's asking principal Vernon about whether or not he had raided Barry Manilow's wardrobe? (That earned him an additional detention).
 * He means that Vernon wears old-fashioned seventies clothes (wide collar, etc). Mikkel 16:03, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Also, was the film really filmed on March 24th 1984?
 * films take a bit to finish. i doubt it was filmed in a day. especially since imdb anounces 5 filming locations. --Torourkeus 05:01, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Down with the "Legacy"
I propose splitting up the section marked "Legacy", which implies it's going to be about the lasting cultural impact of the film, or proof of the importance as a generational touchstone, but is ultimately a list of parodies and jokes on TV shows. This list may be relevant, but should be marked as such, and drastically shortened. Nearly every entry on the list simply explains that an episode of a program parodied The Breakfast Club, which amounts to a long-winded version of the IMDb "Movie Connections" list. One might question the usefulness of listing every such parody in an article woefully short on hard data to begin with. Chris Stangl 02:16, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree with this, and I believe that there should be a little bit more on short term effects of the film, as the only one that I see listed is the success of the band that sings the theme song.

"Eat my shorts"
Unless someone can demonstrate conclusively that no one in popular media uttered "Eat my shorts" before John Bender, or that the quote was largely associated with The Breakfast Club prior to being a Bart Simpson catchphrase, I continue to fail to see why this non-connection is noteworthy. Supporters, please discuss. Chris Stangl 21:26, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I believe that's false .. I've only seen the clean version on VH1, and I sware, if you look closely at Bender's mouth, you can see he's most likely saying 'Eat my shit', which is a more common insult.

 * Bender certainly yells "eat my shorts" in the R-rated cut. That doesn't make it the origin of the phrase, though. Don't forget to sign Talk comments. Chris Stangl 00:35, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

I definitely do not think this movie was the origin of the phrase "Eat my shorts." Rick Dees had a song out in 1984 entitled "Eat my shorts" (see, e.g., brief reference in http://www.yearsofgold.org.uk/1976WEEK39SEPT25.htm). If the article is correct that the movie's release date was 1985, it seems highly unlikely that this movie was the origin of the phrase, as when would Rick Dees have heard it to write it into his song? In addition, I seem to remember that I had already heard this phrase, most likely in the song, when I saw the movie during its original US release. As a result, I certainly do not think that when a Wikipedia user enters "Eat my shorts" in the search box, he should be automatically redirected to the Breakfast Club page. I apologize for posting this comment two years after this discussion was started. 78.53.7.22 (talk) 23:18, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

 * "Eat My Shorts" was said by Meat in Porky's, circa 1981. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Buckeyebrain (talk • contribs) 05:27, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

I propose to add in here a link to the 2012 Jason Moore film Pitch Perfect, because The Breakfast Club is (quite rightly) heavily referenced in Pitch Perfect, and while the Pitch Perfect article has a reference and link to the Breakfast Club, there is no reference to Pitch Perfect in the Legacy section. StellaKingsbury9 (talk) 03:58, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

"Friends" reference
I don't have the Friends episode handy, but I'm almost positive that they were whistling "the Odd Couple Theme," and not "Don't You Forget About Me." Can anyone confirm?

The "Odd Couple Theme" was whistled, hummed, and "da-dudah"ed as an opening to one episode, on the couch at Central Perk, starting with one of the cast, and slowly growing until all six of them are performing it. It ended, a brief silence, and then Chandler starts up on the "I Dream Of Jeannie" theme, before Ross stops him quick by saying "We're done." It might be this scene you are thinking of. D f cornish 09:45, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Just read this. I believe actually it was Ross who tried to start the "I Dream of Jeannie" theme and Chandler stopped him. Correct me if I am wrong.

Two big problems
This article has two major problems: Both of these problems need serious attention.
 * 1) It features no discussion whatsoever of the plot
 * 2) The "Interpretations" section is largely original research and unsourced statements.
 * "Strong points" is a nonsensical section-header... and a nearly nonsensical section. I'm happy to take a pass through and simply delete the POV and original "research".  Please sign your comments on Talk pages.  Chris Stangl 19:29, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

TV Edit
Can anyone add some information about the television edit? I'm watching the full version for the first time and it is INCREDIBLY different. Lots of stuff were taken out that i think are important in making it such a kick ass movie. --Torourkeus 05:07, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Letter
Someone made this edit and it may include more information, but does not look nice and would need proper formatting for it to be included. I also am not sure if that was the actual words that transpired as it seems to have too many repetitive words. I will revert it for now and if anyone disagrees, please post your reasons here. Cbrown1023 00:45, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

The two parts of the letter (start of film, end of film) are supposed to go together in a "cut-and-paste", and only together is the full impact appreciated. Too much is lost when the part where Brian writes "You see us as a brain, a jock, a basket case, a princess and a criminal. Correct? That's the way we saw ourselves at seven o'clock this morning. We were brainwashed" gets cut out.

First point; he lists the labels that Mr Vernon sees them as. The "Correct?" is what makes the statement into an accusation. Second point; he confesses that the five students themselves also saw both themselves and each other as these labels. By saying "We were brainwashed" he turns that into an accusation, too. Not just at Mr Vernon, but against everyone who only saw them and treated them as a label.

Plus it makes more sense when the first part is quoted. Why would he start a paragraph with "But what we found out..." without starting off with what they believed before detention began. "But" doesn't make sense without the preceding sentences.

As for references - watch the movie, it is all there. But for those too lazy to, the entire dialogue/script can be found at http://members.fortunecity.com/breakfastclub/Script/script1.htm through to http://members.fortunecity.com/breakfastclub/Script/script7.htm D f cornish 09:48, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ, they may be both be notable, but they can't go together like that, look how much it repeats! They are meant to be book-ends for the whole movie, an opening and a closing.  Plus, what is referred to as "the letter", the letter at the end, is what is written. Cbrown1023 20:49, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The purpose of having an article in Wikipedia is to mainly display its importance to our culture, such as achievements, impacts, criticism, etc. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information; The letter itself can by no means help to explain the significance of the film. And after all, Wikipedia is not IMDb and should instead focus on its notability, proving why this article should have its own article. Showing only the obvious parts of the letter is enough; if the readers wish to interpret the entire letter by themselves, let them buy/rent one themselves or whatever and watch it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Vic226 (talk • contribs) 03:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

Final paragraphs of cultural impact
there is an interesting but unrealiable series of ascertions in the final paragraphs of the cultural impact section. It is clear that this section needs a clean up, a clean up that would represent the final stage of the articles general cleanup. I don't want to erase these claims without discussing them first, so I would like for anyone withe views for and against to step up, suggest new ideas for teh cultural impact section and help in completing the article's finale. Kiske 09:20, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree with this--and there is not enough on short term cultural effects!

The Claire and Bender pages
They should be merged with the main article, and the links from the character table should be removed. Half of them lead to things unrelated to the movie —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.214.100.215 (talk) 17:00, 5 May 2007 (UTC).

TV-edited version
Was really annoying. They say lines like, "Damn you, you stinkin butthead, eat my socks." I've never seen the entire movie but I'm pretty sure they skipped the marijuana-smoking scene. I thought that was pointless, because they had already shown the bag of weed so it wasn't as if they were eliminating drug references. I'm surprised they didn't completely edit the scene to show them eating strawberries or something. They did show Bender lighting up a cigarette on his shoe though.

Simply Scripts
Couldn't find the preliminary draft there. Someone have another source? Zeality 03:28, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

References in other media
The sections that talk about other shows referencing this is soooooo long that it overwhelms the article. I, personally, recommend just deleting all the media refs but ... at the very least, shove them into an entire new article. Is it really that relevant ER did a similar plot? Besides, unless they mention the movie, does the similar plot section even COUNT? Lots42 03:04, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Principal?
It had never occurred to me that Mr. Vernon was a principal. (However I do see that he is credited as such on IMDB.com, though lately I've come to question the site's reliability.) Does the film ever state his actual position? Is there some other source for this? He seems more like a vice-prinipal, or perhaps a teacher earning overtime on a Saturday. I would imagine that a principal would delegate detention duty to someone else. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:45, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I always assumed he was the assistant principal (for the reason you stated). Haven't seen the movie in a while, though. 24.6.66.193 19:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I think at some point we see the nameplate on his desk that says assistant principal. In my not too recent high school experience, that is about the level usually responsible for student discipline.  And that makes the janitor's blackmail for looking at student records more plausible.  I doubt anyone is going to take the principal to task for that, but the assistant principal, maybe so.--Wehwalt (talk) 08:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

To the best of my knowledge, Vernon was a Vice Principal and I also think labeling him as Principal is erroneous, however until source material is found to back that up, perhaps something with more weight than IMDB, Principal would be the most recent "legit" data. :-/ Medleystudios72 (talk) 19:03, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

The nameplate on his desk just says 'Richard Vernon', here on Wikipedia he is referred to as Assistant Principal, on IMDB he listed as Principal, and in the online script I found he is listed as 'teacher'. I can't verify the authenticity of the script however. 24.225.23.137 (talk) 04:27, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Went ahead and read the full script, while Carl and Vernon are talking, Vernon refrences the fact that he has been teaching for 22 years. Carl then says back to him, "You took a teaching position, 'cause you thought it'd be fun, right?"  It's fairly inconclusive though, as Carl's reply back is referencing the past, while any position in the education field could be claimed as 'teaching'.  The only other thing that would be a clue, is when Vernon is yelling at John, he mentions making $31,000 as a salary.  I couldn't find any historical data for Principal, Vice/Assistant Principal, or teacher salaries for Illinois.  In any case the figure could be an inaccurate representation of the compensation packages for 1984 Illinois. 24.225.23.137 (talk) 07:10, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I decided to check all the links for interviews with the cast and John Hughes about the film, the October 1999 issue of Premiere Magazine has Paul listed as teacher Richard Vernon (reference #5). On the DVD featurette multiple members of the cast and crew refer to him as the Principal of the school.  I'm officially giving up now on this quest, hope this information helps (contradictory as it is). 24.225.23.137 (talk) 08:16, 31 May 2013 (UTC)
 * If he was the Principal, I wouldn't think that Carl would be able to blackmail him for looking over student records. --Thoric (talk) 20:28, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

If he was just a teacher, he wouldn't have an office with a nameplate and desk. That he does have an office is pretty strong evidence he is either a principal or just maybe a counselor. But then no teacher or administrator assigned to detention would leave five students alone in the library, so who knows? Wschart (talk) 16:52, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Loners1.jpg
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BetacommandBot 10:19, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Gossip
Is the Gossip Girl ref needed? Lots42 (talk) 22:03, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

The Simpsons - Principal Skinner
It's blatantly obvious to me that the Principal Skinner character in The Simpsons was heavily inspired Principal Richard Vernon in The Breakfast Club. This shoudl be added to the Popular Culture references! Jason404 (talk) 23:25, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
 * If you have any proof of this, add it in! Lots42 (talk) 08:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I do not see this. Skinner is generally a nice guy.  Vernon is not a nice guy.  Is there any evidence for this link?  Epa101 (talk) 22:05, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The resemblance is obvious. They are both school principals, their faces look the same, they both have the same gray hair, they dress the same, and their personalities are similar towards students (Vernon/Bender - Skinner/Bart).Marino13 (talk) 03:40, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

The Page As It Currently Stands
It needs a rewrite. Whole sections are redundant. The 'Character' section needs to go, for one. Three or four paragraphs for the plot. Definitely the end letter. Lots42 (talk) 08:46, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

JC Penny
Is a JC Penny commercial REALLY a 'cultural impact'? I mean come on, people. Lots42 (talk) 20:53, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity
There are a lot of lines spoken in this film that just strike me as odd. I LOVE this film, but I keep wondering how realistic it is. Meaning that how realistic it would be in an average highshool in the United States in the 1980s. "Front and centre". "Eat my shorts". And so on. Is that really how people talked back in the 80s in the United States? I mean, are the words people use in this film, the teacher, Carl, and the students, really the way people talked in the US back in the 80s? Or, more importantly, is this a somewhat realistic portrayal of what might have happened in a US highschool back in the 80s? Just curious. wjmt (talk) 16:15, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

How realistic? More so than not, which is why the film is so popular. I was the age of the students at the time the film was made. A couple of student conversations I had were nearly identical to what was later seen on film. We had different phrases, but still used under similar circumstances for similar effects. MJ56003 (talk) 19:55, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Pan
As a Fan of The Breakfast Club Movie Magic, the Charactors in arrangements, as a student of Kabbalah, Bender reminds one of the Accuser. Osiris. Their overseer reminds one of Michael. Not really His fault. Everyone needs a good challenge.75.202.5.22 (talk) 02:14, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Deleted Scenes
At least some of the deleted scenes have been on air in europe. I remember zapping into a documentary showing scenes from Breakfast Club, but then switching channels because it wasn't the entire movie. The released version of Breakfast Club did not loose anything by leaving out those scenes, seemed suitable for a funny DVD bonus. The scenes could've been from the mentioned VHS... cannot tell due to a lousy TV set at that time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.35.148.164 (talk) 21:24, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Shermer High School
Shermer High School redirects here. However, I hear the school is also the fictional location for Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Weird Science, Sixteen Candles, National Lampoon’s Vacation and Pretty in Pink. Should it get it's own article? Andrew Keenan Richardson 15:34, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. There should be a separate article and not a redirect for only 1 of many cinematic connections. Medleystudios72 (talk) 19:00, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Shermer High School is a veiled reference to Glenbrook North High School, located at 2300 Shermer Road, Northbrook, IL. Many of John Hughes movies were researched or filmed there, and his mother worked in the Glenbrook North High School bookstore throughout the 1980-1985 time frame when he directed most of the movies listed above. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.6.220.209 (talk) 02:09, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Victorious Parody
The Victorious Episode "The Breakfast Bunch" is a parody of this movie. Should it be mentioned in the article? 69.246.197.19 (talk) 22:04, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

 * No. --- The Old Jacobite The '45  00:30, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

 * Maybe if there is a reliable source about the episode being a parody of the film, then it deserves a mention in this article. DBZFan30 (talk) 01:10, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
 * It would have to be a damn good source indicating a substantive connection. ---  The Old Jacobite  The '45  02:37, 3 May 2017 (UTC)

Disambiguation
The phrase "the breakfast club" needs disambiguation being, apart from a movie title, also a drug-using sub-culture phrase used to describe people - typically opiate abusers - who habitually meet when first awakened to once again use drugs, as a matter of first business each day.

49.181.11.37 (talk) 08:23, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

Legacy
I am asking as a general rule, shouldn't the legacy tag be at the end of the article?Messiaindarain (talk) 05:31, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

Critical reception
The lead and indeed most of the article is extremely positive about this movie, unlike the Critical Reception section which suggests that it, err, isn't very good. I certainly don't remember this film being regarded as some sort of masterpiece either when released or subsequently. My suspicion is that some Americans of a certain age feel nostalgic about it because they identified with it when first released. Whatever the reasons for the article's inconsistency, it needs sorting out. --Ef80 (talk) 23:19, 17 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you're confusing something. There is a critical reception section about the film which is positive, and one about the film's soundtrack which is filled with rather negative reviews. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Breakfast_Club#Critical_reception).

As somebody who saw this film only recently and who isn't born in the 1960s or an American, I asked that myself that question when I researched for the German Wikipedia article. Well, most critics are positive about the film and it was now entered into the National Film Registry. It seems to be recognized as a very good film, but not up to the Citizen Kane standard. The "They Don't Shoot Pictures list", which adds all the Critic's "Best Films of All Time" votings of the last years together, lists it at No. 706 (http://theyshootpictures.com/gf1000_all1000films_table.php), which is pretty good for a Hollywood comedy. In the lead of this article it says Critics consider it one of the greatest high school films of all time, as well as one of Hughes' most memorable and recognizable works. Well I think that's true, or which other works is Hughes better known for than Breakfast Club? Perhaps only Ferris and Kevin. And Entertainment Weekly voted it as the best Highschool film of all time (granted, the highschool film genre isn't always that popular with critics, but still an achievement). So: this film is quite recognized. --Clibenfoart (talk) 22:01, 3 January 2017 (UTC)

"Critics consider it among the greatest films of all time" definitely needs substantiation. I'd go so far as to say it's completely wrong. As a group, critics aren't synonymous with American media reviewers.194.168.91.62 (talk) 16:13, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Soundtrack
I'm thinking about moving the soundtrack section to a separate article, but is the soundtrack notable enough to have its own article? DBZFan30 (talk) 16:26, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

recent edits
It's bad form to make dozens of different edits throughout the article and then offer a lousy explanation for them in an edit summary. Taking things one at a time, the spacing fixes in the infobox are helpful and no reason was given for their removal. We do not give figures adjusted for inflation for the budget or gross – this is never done in film articles, and a check of the MOS will bear this out. The changes in the plot were minor and unnecessary details. --- The Old Jacobite The '45 18:32, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

Edit warring
Keith, TOJ, you both need to stop this back and forth reverting NOW. TOJ, you are quite experienced enough to know quite well that one does not respond to edit warring by warring back. More over, some of Keith's edits seem to have merit, specifically reducing duplicative linking, and removing them all jointly is not exactly optimum. Keith, you were told several times to discuss this on this talk page, and have not yet done so. Both of you need to be at the discuss stage of WP:BRD. I will block if there is further edit warring on this matter. Maproom I pinged you because of your recent revert. I had been starting to write thsi note before I saw it. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 20:12, 17 May 2018 (UTC)

 * I stated my objections in the post previous to this one. I have, as yet, received no response. --- The Old Jacobite The '45 00:50, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Do you think that this edit was unneeded or of no value, ? It was included in the group which you reverted several times. DES (talk)DESiegel Contribs 00:55, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * That might fall under overlinking, but it is not uncommon for the same name to be linked in multiple sections. I generally only remove the links if they are included more than once in the same section.  But, even if that particular edit had value, it was bundled with numerous other edits that did not. --- The Old Jacobite The '45 01:48, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

Variety review
One of the most oft-quoted reviews to have come out for this film is the one from a 1985 issue of Variety, which stated:"When the causes of the Decline of Western Civilization are finally writ, Hollywood will surely have to answer why it turned one of man’s most significant art forms over to the self-gratification of high-schoolers."This infamous review has been quoted in several articles and books about the film and the film's genre in the years since its release, which all seem to highlight the review's dramatic foreboding of the damage to society wrought by films whose subjects center around high school students. Owing to the prominence of this review (which to my knowledge has never been linked to a specific reviewer) I'm curious what other editors think about including it here as a blurb in the article's criticism section (of the film, not the soundtrack).  spintendo   12:17, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
 * If it's a worthwhile review, which it clearly is, it should be included in the critical reception section. I can't imagine there being any objection to it. --- The Old Jacobite The '45</i> 13:09, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

Concerning: Time and Date
Habatchii says;

"Does anyone know exactly when the club is suppose to meet? It would be a cornerstone to American pop culture to know." Habatchii (talk) 16:27, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Why would we need to include such a trivial detail? ---<b style="font-family: Georgia;"> The Old Jacobite </b><i style="font-family: Courier New;">The '45</i> 22:50, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Problematic wording
I've not seen the movie and thus refrain from editing, but the sentence "; John's mother, especially his father, physically and verbally abuse him;" makes little sense. Is it supposed to be "John's parents" ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E35:39F2:33D0:7104:4023:8E23:170F (talk) 18:15, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for spotting that. Fixed. Popcornduff (talk) 21:52, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Winners or losers?
Did either the kids or the principal either win or lose in The Breakfast Club? --TMProofreader (talk) 15:59, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

 * I interpret it as the kids winning, or maybe a better term is "having the last laugh". Brian's essay tells Vernon that no matter what he expects them to be, they're going to continue being who they are.  It struck me as a final middle finger to authority.  Hoof Hearted (talk) 17:29, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:The Breakfast Club


text:
Talk:Make Yourself

Entry
I decided to make this a proper entry, in testament to our vandal friend who created the article. More later! -- Sam
 * There I cleaned up the talk page up a bit. This is by far the greatest album ever made. Independent1 17:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Genres
Most sources state the genre as alternative rock. A previous edit claims that a consensus has been reached "on the talk page", but there is no consensus here or at the band's talk page. Since the sources obviously disagree with the previous revision, I removed "funk metal". (Sugar Bear (talk) 21:21, 3 May 2010 (UTC))

Not nu-metal
I'm starting this topic since a few anon ip's seem intent on inserting this unsourced genre to the infobox of this album and various other incubus albums. Let me say that Incubus were no doubt part of the whole nu metal scene, it's just this album sounds too far from nu metal to have it listed as a genre. It has melodic vocals, angsty lyrics, a dj and funk influence but that's where the nu metal comparisons stop. There's no extremely downtuned guitars (only moderately heavy guitars), no pantera/thrash metal influence, no rapping, and growled/shouted vocals. Alt rock, alt metal and funk rock are much more accurate genres, now please stop adding this genre, unless reliable sources start showing up. I call the big one bitey 06:51, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

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mike einziger recording rhythm and lead guitar parts
does mike einziger records lead and rhythm guitar parts during make yourself album? Micchan2003 (talk) 05:08, 5 July 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Make Yourself


text:
Atal Bihari Vajpayee

Atal Bihari Vajpayee (25 December 1924 – 16 August 2018) was an Indian politician and poet who served three terms as the Prime Minister of India, first for a term of 13 days in 1996, then for a period of 13 months from 1998 to 1999, followed by a full term from 1999 to 2004. He was the first non-Congress prime minister to serve a full term in the office. Vajpayee was one of the co-founders and a senior leader of the Bharatiya Janata Party. He was a member of the RSS, a Hindu nationalist volunteer organisation. He was also a Hindi poet and a writer.

He was a member of the Indian Parliament for over five decades, having been elected ten times to the Lok Sabha, the lower house, and twice to the Rajya Sabha, the upper house. He served as the Member of Parliament from the Lucknow constituency, retiring from active politics in 2009 due to health concerns. He was among the founding members of the Bharatiya Jana Sangh, of which he was president from 1968 to 1972. The BJS merged with several other parties to form the Janata Party, which won the 1977 general election. In March 1977, Vajpayee became the Minister of External Affairs in the cabinet of Prime Minister, Morarji Desai. He resigned in 1979, and the Janata alliance collapsed soon after. Former members of the Bharatiya Jana Sangh formed the Bharatiya Janata Party in 1980, with Vajpayee its first president.

During his tenure as prime minister, India carried out the Pokhran-II nuclear tests in 1998. Vajpayee sought to improve diplomatic relations with Pakistan, travelling to Lahore by bus to meet with Prime Minister, Nawaz Sharif. After the 1999 Kargil War with Pakistan, he sought to restore relations through engagement with President Pervez Musharraf, inviting him to India for a summit at Agra. Vajpayee's government introduced many domestic economic and infrastructural reforms, including encouraging the private sector and foreign investments, reducing governmental waste, encouraging research and development and privatisation of some government owned corporations. During his tenure, India's security was threatened by a number of violent incidents including 2001 Indian Parliament attack and 2002 Gujarat riots which ultimately caused his defeat in 2004 general election.

The administration of Narendra Modi declared in 2014 that Vajpayee's birthday, 25 December, would be marked as Good Governance Day. In 2015, he was conferred India's highest civilian honour — Bharat Ratna, by the then-President of India, Pranab Mukherjee. He died in 2018 of age-related illness.

Early life and education
Vajpayee was born into a Kanyakubja Brahmin family on 25 December 1924 in Gwalior, Madhya Pradesh. His mother was Krishna Devi and his father was Krishna Bihari Vajpayee. His father was a school teacher in their home town. His grandfather, Shyam Lal Vajpayee, had migrated to Morena near Gwalior from his ancestral village of Bateshwar in the Agra district of Uttar Pradesh.

Vajpayee did his schooling at the Saraswati Shishu Mandir in Gwalior. In 1934, he was admitted to the Anglo-Vernacular Middle (AVM) School in Barnagar, Ujjain district, after his father joined as headmaster. He subsequently attended Gwalior's Victoria College, Agra University (now Maharani Laxmi Bai Govt. College of Excellence) where he graduated with a Bachelor of Arts in Hindi, English and Sanskrit. He completed his post-graduation with a Master of Arts in political science from DAV College, Kanpur, Agra University.

Early works as activist
His activism started in Gwalior with Arya Kumar Sabha, the youth wing of the Arya Samaj movement, of which he became the general secretary in 1944. He also joined the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) in 1939 as a swayamsevak, or volunteer. Influenced by Babasaheb Apte, he attended the Officers Training Camp of the RSS during 1940 to 1944, becoming a pracharak (RSS terminology for a full-time worker) in 1947. He gave up studying law due to the partition riots. He was sent to Uttar Pradesh as a vistarak (a probationary pracharak) and soon began working for the newspapers of Deendayal Upadhyaya: Rashtradharma (a Hindi monthly), Panchjanya (a Hindi weekly), and the dailies Swadesh and Veer Arjun.

By 1942, at the age of 16 years, Vajpayee became an active member of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS). Although the RSS had chosen not to participate in the Quit India Movement, in August 1942, Vajpayee and his elder brother Prem were arrested for 24 days during the Quit India Movement. He was released after giving a written statement that while he was a part of the crowd, he did not participate in the militant events in Bateshwar on 27 August 1942. Throughout his life, including after he became prime minister, Vajpayee has labelled the allegation of participation in the Quit India Movement to be a false rumour.

Early political career (1947–1975)
In 1951, Vajpayee was seconded by the RSS, along with Deendayal Upadhyaya, to work for the newly formed Bharatiya Jana Sangh, a Hindu right-wing political party associated with the RSS. He was appointed as a national secretary of the party in charge of the Northern region, based in Delhi. He soon became a follower and aide of party leader Syama Prasad Mukherjee. In the 1957 Indian general election, Vajpayee contested elections to the Lok Sabha, the lower house of the Indian Parliament. He lost to Raja Mahendra Pratap in Mathura, but was elected from Balrampur.

He was influenced by Jawaharlal Nehru to the extent that he mirrored his style, diction, and tone of his speeches. Nehru's influence was also evident in Vajpayee's leadership. In the Lok Sabha his oratorial skills so impressed Prime Minister Nehru that he predicted that Vajpayee would someday become the prime minister of India. On the occasion of Nehru's death on 27 May 1964, Vajpayee termed him as "the orchestrator of the impossible and inconceivable" and likened him to Hindu god Rama.

Vajpayee's oratorial skills won him the reputation of being the most eloquent defender of the Jana Sangh's policies. After the death of Upadhyaya, the leadership of the Jana Sangh passed to Vajpayee. He became the national president of the Jana Sangh in 1968, running the party along with Nanaji Deshmukh, Balraj Madhok and L. K. Advani.

Janata Party and the BJP (1975–1995)

Vajpayee was arrested along with several other opposition leaders during the Internal Emergency imposed by Prime Minister Indira Gandhi in 1975. Initially interned in Bangalore, Vajpayee appealed his imprisonment on the grounds of bad health, and was moved to a hospital in Delhi. In December 1976, Vajpayee ordered the student activists of the ABVP to tender an unconditional apology to Indira Gandhi for perpetrating violence and disorder. The ABVP student leaders refused to obey his order.

Gandhi ended the state of emergency in 1977. A coalition of parties, including the BJS, came together to form the Janata Party, which won the 1977 general elections. Morarji Desai, the chosen leader of the alliance, became the prime minister. Vajpayee served as the minister of external affairs, or foreign minister, in Desai's cabinet. As foreign minister, Vajpayee became the first person in 1977 to deliver a speech to the United Nations General Assembly in Hindi.

In 1979, Desai and Vajpayee resigned, triggering the collapse of the Janata Party. The erstwhile members of the Bharatiya Jana Sangh came together to form the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) in 1980, with Vajpayee as its first President.

Leading up to Operation Bluestar, there were several protests by Sangh Parivar, including a march led by LK Advani and Vajpayee of the Bhartiya Janta Party to protest against the lack of government action and to demand that the Indian Army be sent into the Golden Temple.

The 1984 general elections were held in the wake of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi's assassination by her Sikh bodyguards. While he had won the 1977 and the 1980 elections from New Delhi, Vajpayee shifted to his home town Gwalior for the election.

Vidya Razdan was initially tipped to be the Congress (I) candidate. Instead, Madhavrao Scindia, scion of the Gwalior royal family, was brought in on the last day of filing nominations. Vajpayee lost to Scindia, managing to secure only 29% of the votes.

Under Vajpayee, the BJP moderated the Hindu-nationalist position of the Jana Sangh, emphasising its connection to the Janata Party and expressing support for Gandhian Socialism. The ideological shift did not bring it success: Indira Gandhi's assassination generated sympathy for the Congress, leading to a massive victory at the polls. The BJP won only two seats in parliament. Vajpayee offered to quit as party president following BJP's dismal performance in the election, but stayed in the post until 1986. He was elected to the Rajya Sabha in 1986 from Madhya Pradesh, and was briefly the leader of the BJP in Parliament.

In 1986, L. K. Advani took office as president of the BJP. Under him, the BJP returned to a policy of hardline Hindu nationalism. It became the political voice of the Ram Janmabhoomi Mandir Movement, which sought to build a temple dedicated to the Hindu deity Rama in Ayodhya. The temple would be built at a site believed to be the birthplace of Rama after demolishing a 16th-century mosque, called the Babri Masjid, which then stood there. The strategy paid off for the BJP; it won 86 seats in the Lok Sabha in the 1989 general election, making its support crucial to the government of V. P. Singh. In December 1992, a group of religious volunteers led by members of the BJP, the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS) and the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP), tore down the mosque.

He served as Member of Parliament, Lok Sabha, for various terms starting at Balrampur from 1957–1962. He served again from Balrampur from 1967–1971, then from Gwalior from 1971–1977, and then from New Delhi from 1977–1984. Finally, he served from Lucknow from 1991–2009.

First term: May 1996
During a BJP conference in Mumbai in November 1995, BJP President Advani declared that Vajpayee would be the party's prime ministerial candidate in the forthcoming elections. Vajpayee himself was reported to be unhappy with the announcement, responding by saying that the party needed to win the election first. The BJP became the single largest party in Parliament in the 1996 general election, helped by religious polarisation across the country as a result of the demolition of the Babri Masjid. Indian president Shankar Dayal Sharma invited Vajpayee to form the government. Vajpayee was sworn in as the 10th prime minister of India, but the BJP failed to muster a majority among members of the Lok Sabha. Vajpayee resigned after 16 days, when it became clear that he did not have enough support to form a government. In this short period, he also created and administered the Ministry of Consumer Affairs, Food and Public Distribution.

Second term: 1998–1999
After the fall of the two United Front governments between 1996 and 1998, the Lok Sabha was dissolved and fresh elections were held. The 1998 general elections again put the BJP ahead of others. A number of political parties joined the BJP to form the National Democratic Alliance (NDA), and Vajpayee was sworn in as the prime minister. The coalition was an uneasy one, as apart from the Shiv Sena, none of the other parties espoused the BJP's Hindu-nationalist ideology. Vajpayee has been credited for managing this coalition successfully, while facing ideological pressure from the hardline wing of the party and from the RSS. Vajpayee's government lasted 13 months until mid-1999 when the All India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam (AIADMK) under J. Jayalalithaa withdrew its support. The government lost the ensuing vote of confidence motion in the Lok Sabha by a single vote on 17 April 1999. As the opposition was unable to come up with the numbers to form the new government, the Lok Sabha was again dissolved and fresh elections were held.

Nuclear tests
In May 1998, India conducted five underground nuclear tests in the Pokhran desert in Rajasthan, 24 years after its first nuclear test (Smiling Buddha) in 1974. Two weeks later, Pakistan responded with its own nuclear tests making it the newest nation with declared nuclear capability. While some nations, such as France, endorsed India's right to defensive nuclear power, others including the United States, Canada, Japan, Britain and the European Union imposed sanctions on information, resources and technology to India. In spite of intense international criticism and steady decline in foreign investment and trade, the nuclear tests were popular domestically. In effect, the international sanctions imposed failed to sway India from weaponising its nuclear capability. US sanctions against India and Pakistan were eventually lifted after just six months.

Lahore summit
In late 1998 and early 1999, Vajpayee began a push for a full-scale diplomatic peace process with Pakistan. With the historic inauguration of the Delhi-Lahore bus service in February 1999, Vajpayee initiated a new peace process aimed towards permanently resolving the Kashmir dispute and other conflicts with Pakistan. The resultant Lahore Declaration espoused a commitment to dialogue, expanded trade relations and mutual friendship and envisaged a goal of denuclearised South Asia. This eased the tension created by the 1998 nuclear tests, not only within the two nations but also in South Asia and the rest of the world.

AIADMK's withdrawal from coalition
The AIADMK had continually threatened to withdraw from the coalition and national leaders repeatedly flew down from Delhi to Chennai to pacify the AIADMK general secretary J. Jayalalithaa. However, in May 1999, the AIADMK did pull the plug on the NDA, and the Vajpayee administration was reduced to a caretaker status pending fresh elections scheduled for October 1999.

Kargil War

In May 1999 some Kashmiri shepherds discovered the presence of militants and non-uniformed Pakistani soldiers (many with official identifications and Pakistan Army's custom weaponry) in the Kashmir Valley, where they had taken control of border hilltops and unmanned border posts. The incursion was centred around the town of Kargil, but also included the Batalik and Akhnoor sectors and artillery exchanges at the Siachen Glacier.

The Indian army responded with Operation Vijay, which launched on 26 May 1999. This saw the Indian military fighting thousands of militants and soldiers in the midst of heavy artillery shelling and while facing extremely cold weather, snow and treacherous terrain at the high altitude. Over 500 Indian soldiers were killed in the three-month-long Kargil War, and it is estimated around 600–4,000 Pakistani militants and soldiers died as well. India pushed back the Pakistani militants and Northern Light Infantry soldiers. Almost 70% of the territory was recaptured by India. Vajpayee sent a "secret letter" to U.S. President Bill Clinton that if Pakistani infiltrators did not withdraw from the Indian territory, "we will get them out, one way or the other" - meaning he did not rule out crossing the Line of Control (LoC), or was the use of nuclear weapons.

After Pakistan suffered heavy losses, and with both the United States and China refusing to condone the incursion or threaten India to stop its military operations, General Pervez Musharraf was recalcitrant and Nawaz Sharif asked the remaining militants to stop and withdraw to positions along the LoC. The militants were not willing to accept orders from Sharif but the NLI soldiers withdrew. The militants were killed by the Indian army or forced to withdraw in skirmishes which continued even after the announcement of withdrawal by Pakistan.

1999–2002
The 1999 general elections were held in the aftermath of the Kargil operations. The BJP-led NDA won 303 seats out of the 543 seats in the Lok Sabha, securing a comfortable and stable majority. On 13 October 1999, Vajpayee took oath as the prime minister of India for the third time.

A national crisis emerged in December 1999, when Indian Airlines flight IC 814 from Kathmandu to New Delhi was hijacked by five terrorists and flown to Taliban-ruled Afghanistan. The hijackers made several demands including the release of certain terrorists like Masood Azhar from prison. Under pressure, the government ultimately caved in. Jaswant Singh, the minister of external affairs at the time, flew with the terrorists to Afghanistan and exchanged them for the passengers.

In March 2000, Bill Clinton, the President of the United States, paid a state visit to India. This was the first state visit to India by a U.S. president in 22 years, since President Jimmy Carter's visit in 1978. President Clinton's visit was hailed as a significant milestone in relations between the two nations. Vajpayee and Clinton had wide-ranging discussions on bilateral, regional and international developments. The visit led to expansion in trade and economic ties between India and the United States. A vision document on the future course of Indo-U.S. relations was signed during the visit.

Domestically, the BJP-led government was influenced by the RSS, but owing to its dependence on coalition support, it was impossible for the BJP to push items like building the Ram Janmabhoomi temple in Ayodhya, repealing Article 370 which gave a special status to the state of Kashmir, or enacting a uniform civil code applicable to adherents of all religions. On 17 January 2000, there were reports of the RSS and some BJP hard-liners threatening to restart the Jan Sangh, the precursor to the BJP, because of their discontent over Vajpayee's rule. Former president of the Jan Sangh Balraj Madhok had written a letter to the then-RSS chief Rajendra Singh for support. The BJP was, however, accused of "saffronising" the official state education curriculum and apparatus, saffron being the colour of the RSS flag of the RSS, and a symbol of the Hindu nationalism movement. Home Minister L. K. Advani and the Human Resource Development Minister (now called Education Minister) Murli Manohar Joshi were indicted in the 1992 Babri Mosque demolition case for inciting a mob of activists. Vajpayee himself came under public scrutiny owing to his controversial speech one day prior to the mosque demolition.

These years were accompanied by infighting in the administration and confusion regarding the direction of government. Vajpayee's weakening health was also a subject of public interest, and he underwent a major knee-replacement surgery at the Breach Candy Hospital in Mumbai to relieve intense pressure upon his legs.

In March 2001, the Tehelka group released a sting operation video named Operation West End which showed BJP president Bangaru Laxman, senior army officers and NDA members accepting bribes from journalists posing as agents and businessmen. The Defence Minister George Fernandes was forced to resign following the Barak Missile scandal involving the botched supplies of coffins for the soldiers killed in Kargil, and the findings of an inquiry commission that the government could have prevented the Kargil invasion.

Vajpayee initiated talks with Pakistan, and invited Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf to Agra for a joint summit. President Musharraf was believed to be the principal architect of the Kargil War in India. By accepting him as the President of Pakistan, Vajpayee chose to move forward leaving behind the Kargil War. But after three days of much fanfare, which included Musharraf visiting his birthplace in Delhi, the summit failed to achieve a breakthrough as President Musharraf declined to leave aside the issue of Kashmir.

2001 attack on Parliament
On 13 December 2001, a group of masked, armed men with fake IDs stormed Parliament House in Delhi. The terrorists managed to kill several security guards, but the building was sealed off swiftly and security forces cornered and killed the men who were later proven to be Pakistan nationals. Vajpayee ordered Indian troops to mobilise for war, leading to an estimated 500,000 to 750,000 Indian soldiers positioned along the international border between India and Pakistan. Pakistan responded by mobilising its own troops along the border. A terrorist attack on an army garrison in Kashmir in May 2002 further escalated the situation. As the threat of war between two nuclear capable countries and the consequent possibility of a nuclear exchange loomed large, international diplomatic mediation focused on defusing the situation. In October 2002, both India and Pakistan announced that they would withdraw their troops from the border.

The Vajpayee administration brought in the Prevention of Terrorism Act in 2002. The act was aimed at curbing terrorist threats by strengthening powers of government authorities to investigate and act against suspects. It was passed in a joint session of the parliament, amidst concerns that the law would be misused.

Another political disaster hit his government between December 2001 and March 2002: the VHP held the Government hostage in a major standoff in Ayodhya over the Ram temple. On the 10th anniversary of the destruction of the Babri mosque, the VHP wanted to perform a shila daan, or a ceremony laying the foundation stone of the cherished temple at the disputed site. Thousands of VHP activists amassed and threatened to overrun the site and forcibly perform the ceremony. A grave threat of not only communal violence, but an outright breakdown of law and order owing to the defiance of the government by a religious organisation hung over the nation. The incident, however, ended peacefully with a symbolic handover of a stone at a different location 1 km away from the disputed site.

2002 Gujarat violence
In February 2002, a train filled with Hindu pilgrims returning to Gujarat from Ayodhya stopped in the town of Godhra. A scuffle broke out between Hindu activists and Muslim residents, and the train was set on fire, leading to the deaths of 59 people. The charred bodies of the victims were displayed in public in the city of Ahmedabad, and the Vishwa Hindu Parishad called for a statewide strike in Gujarat. These decisions stoked anti-Muslim sentiments. Blaming Muslims for the deaths, rampaging Hindu mobs killed thousands of Muslim men and women, destroying Muslim homes and places of worship. The violence raged for more than two months, and more than 1,000 people died. Gujarat was being ruled by a BJP government, with Narendra Modi as the chief minister. The state government was criticised for mishandling the situation. It was accused of doing little to stop the violence, and even being complicit in encouraging it.

Vajpayee reportedly wanted to remove Modi, but was eventually prevailed upon by party members to not act against him. He travelled to Gujarat, visiting Godhra, and Ahmedabad, the site of the most violent riots. He announced financial aid for victims, and urged an end to the violence. While he condemned the violence, he did not chastise Modi directly in public. When asked as to what would be his message to the chief minister in the event of the riots having taking place, Vajpayee responded that Modi must follow raj dharma, Hindi for ethical governance.

At the meeting of the BJP national executive in Goa in April 2002, Vajpayee's speech generated controversy for its contents which included him saying: "Wherever Muslims live, they don't like to live in co-existence with others." The Prime Minister's Office stated that these remarks had been taken out of context. Vajpayee was accused of doing nothing to stop the violence, and later admitted mistakes in handling the events. K. R. Narayanan, then president of India, also blamed Vajpayee's government for failing to quell the violence. After the BJP's defeat in the 2004 general elections, Vajpayee admitted that not removing Modi had been a mistake.

2002–2004
In late 2002 and 2003 the government pushed through economic reforms. The country's GDP growth exceeded 7% every year from 2003 to 2007, following three years of sub-5% growth. Increasing foreign investment, modernisation of public and industrial infrastructure, the creation of jobs, a rising high-tech and IT industry and urban modernisation and expansion improved the nation's international image. Good crop harvests and strong industrial expansion also helped the economy.

In May 2003, he announced before the parliament that he would make one last effort to achieve peace with Pakistan. The announcement ended a period of 16 months, following the 2001 attack on the Indian parliament, during which India had severed diplomatic ties with Pakistan. Although diplomatic relations did not pick up immediately, visits were exchanged by high-level officials and the military standoff ended. The Pakistani President and Pakistani politicians, civil and religious leaders hailed this initiative as did the leaders of the United States, Europe and much of the world. In July 2003, Prime Minister Vajpayee visited China, and met with various Chinese leaders. He recognised Tibet as a part of China, which was welcomed by the Chinese leadership, and which, in the following year, recognised Sikkim as part of India. China–India relations improved greatly in the following years.

Policies
Vajpayee's government introduced many domestic economic and infrastructural reforms, including encouraging the private sector and foreign investments, reducing governmental waste, encouraging research and development and privatisation of some government owned corporations. Among Vajpayee's projects were the National Highways Development Project and Pradhan Mantri Gram Sadak Yojana. In 2001, the Vajpayee government launched the Sarva Shiksha Abhiyan campaign, aimed at improving the quality of education in primary and secondary schools.

2004 general election
In 2003, news reports suggested a tussle within the BJP with regard to sharing of leadership between Vajpayee and Deputy Prime Minister LK Advani. BJP president Venkaiah Naidu had suggested that Advani must lead the party politically at the 2004 general elections, referring to Vajpayee as vikas purush, Hindi for development man, and Advani as loh purush, iron man. When Vajpayee subsequently threatened retirement, Naidu backtracked, announcing that the party would contest the elections under the twin leadership of Vajpayee and Advani.

The NDA was widely expected to retain power after the 2004 general election. It announced elections six months ahead of schedule, hoping to capitalise on economic growth, and Vajpayee's peace initiative with Pakistan. The 13th Lok Sabha was dissolved before the completion of its term. The BJP hoped to capitalise on a perceived 'feel-good factor' and BJP's recent successes in the Assembly elections in Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh and Chhattisgarh. Under the "India Shining" campaign, it released ads proclaiming the economic growth of the nation under the government.

However, the BJP could only win 138 seats in the 543-seat parliament, with several prominent cabinet ministers being defeated. The NDA coalition won 185 seats. The Indian National Congress, led by Sonia Gandhi, emerged as the single largest party, winning 145 seats in the election. The Congress and its allies, comprising many smaller parties, formed the United Progressive Alliance, accounting for 220 seats in the parliament. Vajpayee resigned as prime minister. The UPA, with the outside support of communist parties, formed the next government with Manmohan Singh as the prime minister.

Post-premiership
In December 2005, Vajpayee announced his retirement from active politics, declaring that he would not contest in the next general election. In a famous statement at the BJP's silver jubilee rally at Mumbai's Shivaji Park, Vajpayee announced that "Henceforth, Lal Krishna Advani and Pramod Mahajan will be the Ram-Lakshman [the two godly brothers much revered and worshipped by Hindus] of the BJP."

Vajpayee was referred to as the Bhishma Pitamah of Indian politics by former prime minister Manmohan Singh during a speech in the Rajya Sabha, a reference to the character in the Hindu epic Mahabharata who was held in respect by two warring sides. Vajpayee was hospitalised at All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Delhi (AIIMS) for a chest infection and fever on 6 February 2009. He was put on ventilator support as his condition worsened but he eventually recuperated and was later discharged. Unable to participate in the campaign for the 2009 general election due to his poor health, he wrote a letter urging voters to back the BJP. His protege Lalji Tandon was able to retain the Lucknow seat in that election even though the NDA suffered electoral reverses all over the country. It was speculated that Vajpayee's non-partisan appeal contributed to Lalji's success in Lucknow in contrast to that BJP's poor performance elsewhere in Uttar Pradesh.

Personal life
Vajpayee remained a bachelor for his entire life. He adopted and raised Namita Bhattacharya as his own child, the daughter of longtime friend Rajkumari Kaul and her husband B. N. Kaul. His adopted family lived with him.

Unlike purist Brahmins who shun meat and alcohol, Vajpayee was known to be fond of whisky and meat. He was a noted poet, writing in Hindi. His published works include Kaidi Kaviraj Ki Kundalian, a collection of poems written during the 1975–1977 emergency, and Amar aag hai. With regard to his poetry he wrote, "My poetry is a declaration of war, not an exordium to defeat. It is not the defeated soldier's drumbeat of despair, but the fighting warrior's will to win. It is not the despirited voice of dejection but the stirring shout of victory."

Death
Vajpayee had a stroke in 2009 which impaired his speech. His health had been a major source of concern; reports said he was reliant on a wheelchair and failed to recognise people. He also had dementia and long-term diabetes. For many years, he had not attended any public engagements and rarely ventured out of the house, except for checkups at the All India Institutes of Medical Sciences.

On 11 June 2018, Vajpayee was admitted to AIIMS in critical condition following a kidney infection. He was officially declared dead there at 5:05 pm IST on 16 August 2018 at the age of 93. Some sources claim that he had died on the previous day. On the morning of 17 August, Vajpayee's body, draped with the Indian flag, was taken to the Bharatiya Janata Party headquarters where party workers paid their tributes until 1 pm. Later that afternoon at 4 pm, Vajpayee was cremated with full state honours at Rashtriya Smriti Sthal near Raj Ghat, and his pyre was lit by his foster daughter Namita Kaul Bhattacharya. Thousands of people and many dignitaries attended his funeral procession, including Prime Minister Narendra Modi and President Ram Nath Kovind. On 19 August, his ashes were immersed in Ganga river at Haridwar by Kaul.

Reactions and tributes
India reacted to Vajpayee's death with grief and thousands of tributes poured in through social media platforms. Thousands of people paid their respects during his funeral procession. A seven-day state mourning was announced by the central government throughout India. The national flag flew half-mast during this period.
 * Afghanistan: Former Afghan President Hamid Karzai was among several foreign dignitaries present at former prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee's funeral in New Delhi. He recalled that the departed leader was "the first to offer us civilian planes, Airbuses at the time we were starting out".
 * Bangladesh: Bangladesh Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina expressed "deep shock" at the demise of former Indian Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee and said it is a day of great sadness for the people of Bangladesh. Paying tribute to Vajpayee, Hasina termed him as "one of the most famous sons of India" and a highly respected person in Bangladesh.
 * Bhutan: Bhutan king Jigme Khesar Namgyel Wangchuck attended the funeral ceremony in New Delhi.
 * China: In a statement, the ministry of foreign affairs said the Indian leader was an "outstanding Indian statesman and had made outstanding contributions to the development of Sino-Indian relations"."China expresses its deep condolences on his death and sincere condolences to the Indian government and people and the relatives of Mr Vajpayee. Premier Li Keqiang has sent a condolence message to the leaders of India," the statement said.
 * Israel: Prime Minister of Israel Benjamin Netanyahu conveyed his condolences calling Vajpayee "a true friend of Israel". Foreign Ministry of Israel also extended its condolences on the passing of Vajpayee and in a statement described him as "a genuine friend of Israel".
 * Japan: Remembering Vajpayee's visit to Japan in 2001, the Japanese Prime Minister Shinzō Abe said, "On behalf of the Government and people of Japan, I would like to convey my sincerest condolences to the Government and people of India and the bereaved family. His Excellency Vajpayee visited Japan in 2001 as the then-Prime Minister and made significant contributions to the friendship between our two countries as a good friend of Japan. It is him who established the cornerstone of Japan-India relations today". Terming Vajpayee as an eminent leader of India, Abe added, "I pray from the bottom of my heart that his soul may rest in peace".
 * Mauritius: On 17 August, the government of Mauritius announced that both Mauritian and Indian flags would fly at half mast in the honour of Vajpayee. During the World Hindi Conference in Mauritius, PM Pravind Jugnauth announced that the cyber tower towards which Vajpayee contributed to be set up in Mauritius would be henceforth named as Atal Bihari Vajpayee tower.
 * Pakistan: Pakistan's interim Minister for Law and Information Syed Ali Zafar met External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj and extended Pakistan's condolence on the death of former prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee. Zafar was among the foreign dignitaries who attended Vajpayee's funeral in New Delhi. Former Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf mourned the demise of former prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee, calling him a great man. He said that Vajpayee's demise was a great loss for both India as well as Pakistan.
 * Russia: Russian President Vladimir Putin sent a message of condolences to President Ram Nath Kovind and Prime Minister Narendra Modi on the demise of Vajpayee. Putin termed the former prime minister as "outstanding statesman". "Atal Bihari Vajpayee rightly commanded great respect around the world. He will be remembered as a politician who made a major personal contribution to the friendly relations and privileged strategic partnership between our countries. The President of Russia conveyed words of sincere sympathy and support to the family of the deceased, the Government and the people of India", the message read.
 * Sri Lanka: Various Sri Lankan leaders paid rich tribute to the three-time PM, hailing him as a "friend of Sri Lanka". In a tweet President Maithripala Sirisena said: "Today, we have lost a great humanist and a true friend of Sri Lanka. Former Prime Minister of India Atal Bihari Vajpayee was a visionary leader and an ardent defender of democracy. My condolences to his family and millions of his admirers around the world". Leader of Opposition R. Sampanthan said that India has lost one of its "most regarded intellectual[s] and [statesmen]". "He served the great country of India with humility and honesty, and he was much loved and respected by millions of people across the world. Former three-time Prime Minister Vajpayee is also an exceptional orator and a leader with a great sense of humour, his speeches within the Indian parliament and outside will always be remembered", he said in a statement, extending his condolences on behalf of the Tamil people of Sri Lanka.
 * United States: U.S. Secretary of State Michael Pompeo said Vajpayee recognised early on that the US-India partnership would contribute to the world's economic prosperity and security and the two democracies would continue to benefit from his vision. "On behalf of the people of the United States of America, I extend my heartfelt condolences to the people of India on the recent passing of former prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee", Pompeo said in a statement yesterday. He recalled Vajpayee's address to the Congress in 2000, when he had famously characterised US-India ties as a "natural partnership of shared endeavours". "Today, our two countries and our bilateral relationship continue to benefit from Prime Minister Vajpayee vision, which helped promote expanded cooperation", Pompeo said. He said the American people stand with the people of India "as we mourn Prime Minister Vajpayee's passing".

Awards

 * 1993, D. Lit. from Kanpur University
 * 1994, Lokmanya Tilak Award
 * 1994, Outstanding Parliamentarian Award
 * 1994, Bharat Ratna Pandit Govind Ballabh Pant Award

Other achievements

 * In 2012, Vajpayee was ranked number 9 in Outlook magazine's poll of The Greatest Indian.
 * In August 2018, Naya Raipur was renamed as Atal Nagar.
 * In October 2018, four Himalayan peaks near Gangotri glacier named after his name.

Published works
Vajpayee authored several works of both Hindi poetry and prose. Some of his major publications are listed below. In addition to these, various collections were made of his speeches, articles, and slogans.

Prose

 * National Integration (1961)
 * New Dimensions of India's Foreign Policy (1979)
 * Gathbandhan Ki Rajniti
 * Kuchh Lekh, Kuchh Bhashan (1996)
 * Bindu-Bindu Vichar (1997)
 * Decisive Days (1999)
 * Sankalpakal (1999)
 * Vichar-Bindu (Hindi Edition, 2000)
 * India's Perspectives on ASEAN and the Asia-Pacific Region (2003)
 * Na Dainyam Na Palayanam
 * Nayi Chunauti : Naya Avasar

Poetry

 * Qaidi Kaviraj Ki Kundaliyan
 * Amar Aag Hai (1994)
 * Meri Ikyavan Kavitaen (1995) Some of these poems were set to music by Jagjit Singh for his album Samvedna.
 * Kya Khoya Kya Paya: Atal Bihari Vajapeyi, Vyaktitva Aur Kavitaen (1999)
 * Values, Vision & Verses of Vajpayee: India's Man of Destiny (2001)
 * Twenty-One Poems (2003)
 * Chuni Hui Kavitaen (2012)

An English translation of a selection of some of Vajpayee's Hindi poetry was published in 2013.

Legacy
The administration of Narendra Modi declared in 2014 that Vajpayee's birthday, 25 December, would be marked as Good Governance Day. The world's longest tunnel, Atal Tunnel at Rohtang, Himachal Pradesh, on the Leh-Manali Highway was named after Atal Bihari Vajpayee. The third longest cable-stayed bridge in India over the Mandovi River, Atal Setu was named in his memory. The Government of Chhattisgarh changed the name of Naya Raipur to Atal Nagar.

In popular culture
The Films Division of India has produced the short documentary films Pride of India Atal Bihari Vajpayee (1998) and Know Your Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee (2003), both directed by Girish Vaidya, which explore different facets of his personality. Vajpayee also appears in a cameo in the 1977 Indian Hindi-language film Chala Murari Hero Banne by Asrani.

In 2019, Shiva Sharma and Zeeshan Ahmad, owners of Amaash Films, acquired the official rights of the book The Untold Vajpayee written by Ullekh N P, to make a biopic based on Vajpayee's life from his childhood, college life and finally turning into a politician.

Aap Ki Adalat, an Indian talk show which airs on India TV, featured an interview with Vajpayee just before the 1999 elections. Pradhanmantri (lit. 'Prime Minister'), a 2013 Indian documentary television series which aired on ABP News and covers the various policies and political tenures of Indian PMs, includes the tenureship of Vajpayee in the episodes "Atal Bihari Vajpayee's 13 days government and India during 1996–98", "Pokhran-II and Kargil War", and "2002 Gujarat Riots and Fall of Vajpayee Government".

Hindi-language film "Main Atal Hoon", starring Pankaj Tripathi as Vajpayee, was theatrically released in India on 19 January 2024.

Abhishek Choudhary wrote an original portrait of Hindutva’s first prime minister in VAJPAYEE: The Ascent of the Hindu Right, 1924–1977. The book won the 2023 Tata Literature Live! First Book Award.

title: Atal Bihari Vajpayee