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Russian Germans in North America

Russian Germans in North America are descended from the many ethnic Germans from Russia who emigrated to North America.

Migration to Canada and the United States by Germans from Russia peaked in the late 19th century. The upper Great Plains of the United States and southern Manitoba, Alberta, and Saskatchewan in Canada have large areas that are populated primarily by descendants of Germans from Russia.

Their mother tongues were High German or Low German dialects although ethnic German communities had existed in Russia for many generations. Russian Germans frequently lived in distinct communities and maintained German-language schools and German churches. They were primarily Volga Germans from the lower Volga River valley; Black Sea Germans from the Crimean Peninsula/Black Sea region; or Volhynian Germans from the governorate of Volhynia in what is Ukraine. The smaller villages were often settled by colonists of a common religious denomination who had come from the same area and so a town is made up of German-speaking Catholics, Lutherans. The people often settled together from the same region of Germany and so spoke the same German dialect.

Originally recruited and welcomed to the Russian Empire in the 18th century, when they were promised to be allowed to practice own language and religions and to be exempted from compulsory military service, the Germans from Russia found increasing hardship. With changes in politics, the Russian government took back some of the privileges that had been granted, economic conditions grew poor. Those conditions led to German mass migrations from Russia.

After the Bolshevik Revolution and the rise of the Soviet Union, particularly under the leadership of Joseph Stalin, conditions for the remaining Germans in Russia declined considerably. The subsequent rise of Nazi Germany, with its concern about ethnic Germans in other lands and proselytizing to the German Volk, led to suspicions of any Germans in Russia. In 1932 and 1933, the Soviet authorities forced starvation among the Volga Germans according to Western observers. Soviet authorities seized food supplies under the pretext of famine in the rest of the Soviet Union, and they ordered the breakup of many German villages.

After the German invasion of the Soviet Union, Stalin ordered the deportation of Russian Germans to labor camps in Siberia and Central Asia, as he was suspicious of potential collaboration with the invaders. In some areas, his forces attempted to bulldoze the German churches and reused their tombstones for paving blocks. Many Germans in the Americas sent donations back to their communities, but others permanently lost contact with their relatives during the social disruptions of the Ukrainian famine, Stalin's Great Purge, and World War II.

Areas of immigration
Unlike many other immigrants to the Americas during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Germans from Russia wanted to continue farming and settled in agricultural areas, rather than industrial cities. Primary areas were the Plains states of Illinois, Nebraska, Kansas, North and South Dakota with some movement to specific areas of Washington State and California (such as Fresno and Lodi) in the United States; Saskatchewan and Manitoba in Canada; Brazil; and Argentina. Those areas tended to resemble the flat plains of the Russian steppes. In addition, the upper Great Plains still had arable land available for free settlement under the Homestead Act. In the 2000 Census, North Dakota reported 43.9% of the population identified as having German ancestry. In 1910, 5% of the population of North Dakota had been born in Russia; it is likely that most were ethnic Germans.

Large-scale immigration to the Americas started in the 1870s and continued until the 1917 Revolution, when travel and emigration were stopped.

Since the reunification of Germany after the fall of the Berlin Wall and the declining conditions in Russia, many ethnic Germans still living in the lands of the former Soviet Union sought German repatriation.

United States

Germans from Russia were the most traditional German-speakers. About 100,000 Volga Germans immigrated by 1900 and settled primarily in the Dakotas, Kansas, and Nebraska. The south-central part of North Dakota was known as the "German-Russian triangle." A smaller number moved farther west and found employment as ranchers and cowboys.

The largest groups settled mainly in the Great Plains: North Dakota, South Dakota, Kansas and nearby areas. Outside those areas, they also settled in Iowa, Michigan, Minnesota, New York State, Oregon, Washington State, Wisconsin, and California's Fresno County in the Central Valley. They often succeeded in dryland farming, which they had practiced in Russia. Many immigrants who arrived between 1870 and 1912 spent a period doing farm labor, especially in northeastern Colorado and in Montana along the lower Yellowstone River in sugar beet fields. Their family and community lifestyle and their contribution to the sugar beet industry on the plains of Colorado is well-documented in "Work Renders Life Sweet: Germans from Russia in Fort Collins, 1900 - 2000." They were often sugar beet farmers almost everywhere they settled.

Cities
Other Volga Germans made new lives in the industrializing American cities, especially in Chicago, which had an immense upsurge in immigration from Eastern Europe during that time. Chicago now has the largest number of ethnic Volga Germans in North America. The largest area of concentrated settlement was in Jefferson Park, on the city's Northwest Side, mostly between 1907 and 1920. By 1930, 450 families of the Evangelical faith were living in that area, most of whom originated from Wiesenseite. Later, during the period of suburbanization, many of their descendants moved out to outlying areas such as Maywood and Melrose Park. Many families living in the Jefferson Park central business district along Lawrence and Milwaukee Avenue have Volga German immigrant ancestors.

Wheat
Bernhard Warkentin, born in a small Russian village in 1847, travelled to America in his early twenties. Interested in flour mills, he was especially impressed with the wheat-growing possibilities in the United States. After he had visited Kansas, Warkentin found the Great Plains much like those that he had left behind. Settling in Harvey County, Kansas, he built a water mill on the banks of the Little Arkansas River, the Halstead Milling and Elevator Company. Warkentin's greatest contribution to Kansas was the introduction of hard Turkey Wheat into Kansas, which replaced the soft variety grown exclusively in the state.

Culture
Negatively influenced by the violation of their rights and cultural persecution by the tsar, the Russian Germans who settled in the northern Midwest saw themselves an ethnic group that was separate from Russian Americans and had an entirely different experience from the German Americans who had immigrated from German lands. The Volga German settled in tight-knit communities, which retained their German language and culture. They raised large families, built German-style churches, buried their dead in distinctive cemeteries by using wrought iron grave markers, and created choir groups that sang German church hymns. Many farmers specialized in sugar beets, still a major crop in the upper Great Plains. During World War I, their identity was challenged by anti-German sentiment. By the end of the World War II, the German language, which had always been used with English for public and official matters, had seriously declined. German is now preserved mainly through singing groups and recipes, with the Germans from Russia in the northern Great Plains states speaking predominantly English. German remains the second-most-spoken language in North and South Dakota, and Germans from Russia sometimes use loanwords, such as Kuchen for 'cake' although that word is primarily used for the sweet bread dessert made in a pie plate with topping like fruits or cottage cheese. The latter kind of Kuchen has been the state dessert of South Dakota since 2013. Despite the loss of their language, the Volga Germans have remained distinct and left a lasting impression on the American West.

Memory
During the 1970s, Dr. Kenneth Rock, a professor of history at Colorado State University, collected 60 oral histories of Russian German immigrants and their descendants as part of the "Germans from Russia in Colorado" Study Project. He documented life in the ethnic German communities in Russia, the immigration experience, work and social life in the United States, and interaction between the Russian-German communities and the wider society in both Russia and the United States. They were often described as looking like Russians but sounding like Germans.

Approximately one million descendants of Germans from Russia live in the United States. Modern descendants in Canada and the United States refer to their heritage as Germans from Russia, Russian Germans, Volgadeutsch or Black Sea Germans. In many parts of the United States, they tend to have blended to a large degree with the "regular" German Americans, who are much more numerous than Russian Germans in the northern half of the United States.

Background
In addition to the large population of Volga Germans that settled on the American prairie, many also settled in the Canadian West. In the early 1870s, the Canadian government had begun to create promotional programs in Europe to entice settlers to the largely-unsettled western areas in what would become Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, and British Columbia. Public policy also served to attract immigration following the passage of the federal Dominion Lands Act of 1872, which provided free grants of homesteads to those who settled on the Canadian prairie. In the early 20th century, many immigrants moved from the United States to Canada in search of inexpensive land and greater social autonomy. Those German-American immigrants brought not only their experience working on the American plains but also their accrued wealth, which gave a much-needed boost to the economy of Western Canada.

1875–1918
The Volga Germans who flocked to Canada in the late 19th and the early 20th centuries came from different religious backgrounds, including Lutheran, Catholic, and Mennonite. The last group, named after the founder Menno Simons, was the largest portion of the immigrant population. Those Mennonites were Plautdietsch-speaking people of Dutch decent who in Russia had been the best organized by preparing scouting parties to investigate the prospect of immigration to Canada and the United States. The scouts had been reliant on the assistance of established Mennonite groups such as those found in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, and in Ontario. From 1873 to 1879, Mennonites formed block settlements in Manitoba such as the East Reserve and West Reserve, with a total of close to 7,000 members. Most settled in southern Manitoba in the richest part of the Red River Valley. The communities were centered around religious homogeneity, the insistence on the tenets of adult baptism, and the refusal to bear arms or to swear an oath. Many Mennonites had been propelled to leave because of the introduction of extended conscription, which had been put into place in 1874 and was set to take effect in Russia in 1881.

Many Volga Germans emigrated from the United States to Western Canada from 1890 to1909. They sought to escape rising land prices and the imposition of laws that had begun to encroach on their relative autonomy. Canada was seen as a new frontier and a place of vast land but little settlement. The immigrants settled mainly in the colonies of St. Peter and St. Joseph, East and West of Saskatoon, in central Saskatchewan. In the 1890s, twelve Catholic families established Rastadt-Dorf, and another twenty-one settled Katherinetal. Additional settlements were begun in Davin, Kronau, and Speyer.

Interwar period
During the interwar period, conditions in Russia worsened, especially after the Revolution and the Great Famine of 1921. Many Volga Germans sought to leave the Soviet Union but faced opposition from a government that did not wish to see such a large portion of its population leave. The government imposed a fee for obtaining a passport, which led to protests as many would-be immigrants flooded the streets of Moscow. Many Mennonites were eventually able to leave, and between the World Wars, over 20,000 of them left destined for Canada.

From the 1910s to several years after the end of the Second World War, the ethnic background of the Volga Germans made them prey to discrimination in Canada. By 1914, Germany had become Canada's enemy, and the Volga Germans were not immune although many families has not set foot in Germany for hundreds of years. This period saw the suppression of many German cultural customs, including the suppression of their print media and the closure of German schools. The federal Wartime Elections Act, passed in September 1917, revoked the citizenship of any German naturalized after March 1902. Many settlements were renamed to disguise their obvious German origin.

The 1920s also saw the movement of Volga Germans within Western Canada as well. Many pushed further west and settled in British Columbia. The area had the appeal of a warmer climate, an escape from the frigid prairie. Other Volga Germans were propelled by economic factors such as the Great Depression, which not only impoverished many but also coincided with a tremendous drought ushering in crop failures. The economy of the Prairies and much of the rest of Canada was dependent on the success of wheat farming. Wheat had been a staple crop for the Volga Germans in Russia and adapted well to the climate of Western Canada. Repeated crop failures meant a large influx of German-Russiana to larger cities and towns, which would contribute to the gradual decline of their culturally-homogeneous communities. The prairie lands abutting the United States border experienced Dust Bowl conditions, which sent swarms of families to the coastal areas of British Columbia. Throughout the period after World War II, new immigrants joined their families in British Columbia and congregated in the Fraser Valley and Vancouver Island.

The mid-20th century brought immigrants from South America, mainly Argentina and Brazil, who fought to maintain their cultural autonomy in increasingly-nationalist countries dominated by leaders like Juan Perón.

Lutheran and Catholic Volga Germans were also significant migrants to Canada but lacked the organization of their Mennonite brethren. Early on, they were more likely to settle in Saskatchewan, especially around Regina. Despite their location near earlier Mennonite communities, Catholic and Lutheran settlements remained religiously homogenous.

Legacy
Throughout their history in Western Canada, the Volga Germans have maintained many of their cultural characteristics, including their dialects, which have been proliferated through Saturday schools and Canadian policies that allowed for cultural freedom. Those schools operated on Saturday mornings for around three hours and became especially vital as German stopped being taught in Canadian public schools after World War I. The Mennonites, unlike most Volga Germans, maintained those schools even after World War II. The Volga Germans' dialects was also maintained by the churches, especially for Mennonite.

Before the Volga Germans left for North America, they had been regarded as privileged colonists in Russia. When they arrived in the United States and Canada, they found that they were treated the same as any other migrant group from Eastern Europe. The Mennonites may be seen as an exception since they successfully used connections with their brethren in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, and in Ontario. Through their hard work on the North American plains, they established themselves as a productive portion of society in both Canada and America.

Language
The Germans from Russia originally spoke German dialects such as the Palatine dialect or Mennonite Low German (Plautdietsch) at home. Since the villages in Russia often were populated by settlers from a particular region and isolated from Germany, they maintained their regional dialects. Depending on their specific dialect, Germans from Russia had difficulties understanding Standard German, which can differ greatly from the dialects. After emigrating from Russia to the Americas, the Germans kept speaking their dialects.

In the 1950s it was still common for children in the Dakotas to speak in English and for the parents and grandparents to use German. Songs in church would be sung in both languages simultaneously. Probably the person best known for having a "German from Russia accent" in English, a result of his having learned English as a second language, was the bandleader and television star Lawrence Welk.

Notable descendants of Germans from Russia

 * Philip Anschutz, businessman
 * Craig Bohl, football coach
 * Tom Daschle, former U.S. Senate Majority Leader
 * John Denver (Henry John Deutschendorf, Jr.), singer
 * Paul Revere Dick, Paul Revere and the Raiders
 * Angie Dickinson, actress
 * Joe Exotic, felonious zookeeper
 * Phyllis Frelich, Tony winning actress
 * Johnny Hopp, baseball player
 * Chris Isaak, singer-songwriter
 * Bernd Leno, football player
 * Randy Meisner, musician and former band member of the Eagles
 * Roman Neustädter, football player
 * Brian Schweitzer, former Governor of Montana
 * Brian Urlacher, former American football player
 * Lawrence Welk, band leader
 * Carson Wentz, football player

title: Russian Germans in North America


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Talk:High/Low (album)

untitled
Removed:

 *  They made copies of this album in the entire world. It's true.

I doubt it is true, as it seems to be meaningless. Does it mean the album was distributed world wide? If so, it should say that. I'm sure it doesn't mean that they went to Burkina Faso and pressed CDs of their records there. I also removed:

 * Best song: "Popular" (the first hit of KROQ)

It's not for the Wikipedia to decide what the best song on an album is (see Neutral point of view). If this song has been particularly acclaimed, then we can give a quote from a magazine or whatever, and that's OK. And I don't see where KROQ fits into this - according to our article on KROQ, they began to broadcast in the 70s, so I doubt anything released in the 90s would be a "first" anything. --Camembert

Moved
Artist name added due to High Low (Nathan Wiley album) per WP:DIFFPUNCT and WP:SLASH, which means that the slash shouldn't be relied on as disambiguation. Ideally would remove the slash completely. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:35, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:High/Low (album)


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A Place in the Sun (Lit album)

A Place in the Sun is the second studio album by the American rock band Lit, released on February 23, 1999.

Release
Produced by Don Gilmore, the album was released on February 23, 1999 by Dirty Martini and RCA Records. It was the band's first release through a major label. The song "No Big Thing", which originally appeared on their previous album Tripping the Light Fantastic, was re-recorded for this album, and eventually appeared on the auto racing video game Jarrett & Labonte Stock Car Racing.

On December 9, 2013, the band announced on its Facebook page that it would perform a special 15th anniversary show for A Place in the Sun, when the band would play the entire album from start to finish on February 28, 2014, at the House of Blues in Anaheim, California.

Reception and legacy
The album peaked at #31 on the US Billboard 200, Singles from the album were "My Own Worst Enemy", which reached #1 on Billboard's Modern Rock Tracks chart for eleven weeks, "Zip-Lock" and "Miserable". A Place in the Sun has been certified platinum by in sales by the RIAA, in the United States.

A Place in the Sun received mixed reviews. Leslie Matthew in AllMusic described it as "an album that is sonically more focused, but it also unfortunately makes the band sound like replicas of a dozen of their post-grunge contemporaries: neither Better Than Ezra or Less Than Jake". At NME, the songs "My Own Worst Enemy" and "No Big Thing" were described as having "a hook as sharp and persistent as a leech". It went on to say, "Gonzoid trash fun maybe, but how we got from The Dead Kennedys to here remains a mystery." NME listed the album as one of "20 Pop Punk Albums Which Will Make You Nostalgic".

The album was a massive influence on Eve 6's Horrorscope (2000), Good Charlotte's Good Charlotte (2000), American Hi-Fi's American Hi-Fi (2001), The All-American Rejects' Move Along (2005) and Zebrahead's Broadcast to the World (2006).

Track listing

 * B-sides
 * 1) "Bitter"
 * 2) "Money"
 * 3) "Down” (acoustic)
 * 4) "Snowblind"

Personnel

 * Lit
 * A. Jay Popoff – lead vocals
 * Jeremy Popoff – guitar, Moog synthesizer, backing vocals
 * Kevin Baldes – bass
 * Allen Shellenberger – drums

 * Additional musicians
 * Don Gilmore – backing vocals, handclaps on "Lovely Day"
 * Michael "Elvis" Baskette – handclaps ("Lovely Day")
 * Larry Williams – saxophone ("Happy")
 * Reggie C. Young – trombone ("Happy")
 * Gary Grant – trumpet ("Happy")
 * Jerry Hey – trombone ("Happy")
 * Niels Bye Nielsen – Mellotron ("Perfect One")

Ruta E. Sepetys – management
 * Management

 * Production
 * Don Gilmore – producer, engineer at NRG Studios
 * Bruce Flohr, Ron Fair – A&R direction
 * Patty McGuire – A&R relations
 * Matt Griffin – assistant engineer
 * Daniel Mendez – editing, engineer
 * Michael "Elvis" Baskette, Cameron Webb – assistant engineers
 * George Marino – mastering at Sterling Sound
 * Brian Malouf – mixing at Pacifique
 * Brian Young – mixing assistant

 * Artwork
 * Brett Kilroe – art direction
 * Kalynn Campbell – illustration
 * Jon Gipe – band photography
 * Dennis Hallinan – cover photography

title: A Place in the Sun (Lit album)


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Emission nebula

An emission nebula is a nebula formed of ionized gases that emit light of various wavelengths. The most common source of ionization is high-energy ultraviolet photons emitted from a nearby hot star. Among the several different types of emission nebulae are H II regions, in which star formation is taking place and young, massive stars are the source of the ionizing photons; and planetary nebulae, in which a dying star has thrown off its outer layers, with the exposed hot core then ionizing them.

General information
Usually, a young star will ionize part of the same cloud from which it was born, although only massive, hot stars can release sufficient energy to ionize a significant part of a cloud. In many emission nebulae, an entire cluster of young stars is contributing energy.

Stars that are hotter than 25,000 K generally emit enough ionizing ultraviolet radiation (wavelength shorter than 91.2 nm) to cause the emission nebulae around them to be brighter than the reflection nebulae. The radiation emitted by cooler stars is generally not energetic enough to ionize hydrogen, which results in the reflection nebulae around these stars giving off less light than the emission nebulae.

The nebula's color depends on its chemical composition and degree of ionization. Due to the prevalence of hydrogen in interstellar gas, and its relatively low energy of ionization, many emission nebulae appear red due to strong emissions of the Balmer series. If more energy is available, other elements will be ionized, and green and blue nebulae become possible. By examining the spectra of nebulae, astronomers infer their chemical content. Most emission nebulae are about 90% hydrogen, with the remaining helium, oxygen, nitrogen, and other elements.

Some of the most prominent emission nebulae visible from the northern celestial hemisphere are the North America Nebula (NGC 7000) and Veil Nebula NGC 6960/6992 in Cygnus, while in the south celestial hemisphere, the Lagoon Nebula M8 / NGC 6523 in Sagittarius and the Orion Nebula M42. Further in the southern hemisphere is the bright Carina Nebula NGC 3372.

Emission nebulae often have dark areas in them which result from clouds of dust which block the light.

Many nebulae are made up of both reflection and emission components such as the Trifid Nebula.

title: Emission nebula


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Gravitational field

In physics, a gravitational field or gravitational acceleration field is a vector field used to explain the influences that a body extends into the space around itself. A gravitational field is used to explain gravitational phenomena, such as the gravitational force field exerted on another massive body. It has dimension of acceleration (L/T2) and it is measured in units of newtons per kilogram (N/kg) or, equivalently, in meters per second squared (m/s2).

In its original concept, gravity was a force between point masses. Following Isaac Newton, Pierre-Simon Laplace attempted to model gravity as some kind of radiation field or fluid, and since the 19th century, explanations for gravity in classical mechanics have usually been taught in terms of a field model, rather than a point attraction. It results from the spatial gradient of the gravitational potential field.

In general relativity, rather than two particles attracting each other, the particles distort spacetime via their mass, and this distortion is what is perceived and measured as a "force". In such a model one states that matter moves in certain ways in response to the curvature of spacetime, and that there is either no gravitational force, or that gravity is a fictitious force.

Gravity is distinguished from other forces by its obedience to the equivalence principle.

Classical mechanics
In classical mechanics, a gravitational field is a physical quantity. A gravitational field can be defined using Newton's law of universal gravitation. Determined in this way, the gravitational field $g$ around a single particle of mass $M$ is a vector field consisting at every point of a vector pointing directly towards the particle. The magnitude of the field at every point is calculated by applying the universal law, and represents the force per unit mass on any object at that point in space. Because the force field is conservative, there is a scalar potential energy per unit mass, $Φ$, at each point in space associated with the force fields; this is called gravitational potential. The gravitational field equation is $$\mathbf{g}=\frac{\mathbf{F}}{m}=\frac{d^2\mathbf{R}}{dt^2}=-GM\frac{\mathbf{R}}{\left|\mathbf{R}\right|^3} = -\nabla\Phi ,$$ where $F$ is the gravitational force, $m$ is the mass of the test particle, $R$ is the radial vector of the test particle relative to the mass (or for Newton's second law of motion which is a time dependent function, a set of positions of test particles each occupying a particular point in space for the start of testing), $t$ is time, $G$ is the gravitational constant, and $∇$ is the del operator.

This includes Newton's law of universal gravitation, and the relation between gravitational potential and field acceleration. $d^{2}R⁄dt^{2}$ and $F⁄m$ are both equal to the gravitational acceleration $g$ (equivalent to the inertial acceleration, so same mathematical form, but also defined as gravitational force per unit mass ). The negative signs are inserted since the force acts antiparallel to the displacement. The equivalent field equation in terms of mass density $ρ$ of the attracting mass is: $$\nabla\cdot\mathbf{g}=-\nabla^2\Phi=-4\pi G\rho$$ which contains Gauss's law for gravity, and Poisson's equation for gravity. Newton's law implies Gauss's law, but not vice versa; see Relation between Gauss's and Newton's laws.

These classical equations are differential equations of motion for a test particle in the presence of a gravitational field, i.e. setting up and solving these equations allows the motion of a test mass to be determined and described.

The field around multiple particles is simply the vector sum of the fields around each individual particle. A test particle in such a field will experience a force that equals the vector sum of the forces that it would experience in these individual fields. This is $$\mathbf{g} = \sum_{i}\mathbf{g}_i = \frac{1}{m}\sum_{i}\mathbf{F}_i = - G\sum_{i}m_i\frac{\mathbf{R}-\mathbf{R}_i}{\left|\mathbf{R}-\mathbf{R}_i\right|^3} = - \sum_{i}\nabla\Phi_i ,$$ i.e. the gravitational field on mass $m_{j}$ is the sum of all gravitational fields due to all other masses mi, except the mass $m_{j}$ itself. $R_{i}$ is the position vector of the gravitating particle $i$, and $R$ is that of the test particle.

General relativity
In general relativity, the Christoffel symbols play the role of the gravitational force field and the metric tensor plays the role of the gravitational potential.

In general relativity, the gravitational field is determined by solving the Einstein field equations $$ \mathbf{G} = \kappa \mathbf{T} ,$$ where $T$ is the stress–energy tensor, $G$ is the Einstein tensor, and $κ$ is the Einstein gravitational constant. The latter is defined as $κ = 8πG/c4$, where $G$ is the Newtonian constant of gravitation and $c$ is the speed of light.

These equations are dependent on the distribution of matter, stress and momentum in a region of space, unlike Newtonian gravity, which is depends on only the distribution of matter. The fields themselves in general relativity represent the curvature of spacetime. General relativity states that being in a region of curved space is equivalent to accelerating up the gradient of the field. By Newton's second law, this will cause an object to experience a fictitious force if it is held still with respect to the field. This is why a person will feel himself pulled down by the force of gravity while standing still on the Earth's surface. In general the gravitational fields predicted by general relativity differ in their effects only slightly from those predicted by classical mechanics, but there are a number of easily verifiable differences, one of the most well known being the deflection of light in such fields.

Embedding diagram
Embedding diagrams are three dimensional graphs commonly used to educationally illustrate gravitational potential by drawing gravitational potential fields as a gravitational topography, depicting the potentials as so-called gravitational wells, sphere of influence.

title: Gravitational field


text:
Talk:Songs for the Deaf

Songs For the Deaf EU vinyl
I just found this album today. The album was made in EU, the cover is black with red font/pitchfork, and other then the UK bonus tracks the Spanish version of Gonna Leave You is on the album rather then the English version. I dunno if this is a special edition of the album. Also, the vinyl is black.24.68.50.33 (talk) 00:24, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

MP3 Ripping
It states that most MP3 ripping software can't rip the hidden track. What ones can?

Why are all the cover art scans in Google Images so blurry?

For those who care:

 * Best KROQ hit: "No One Knows"

Tokerboy

"Songs for the deaf" sound more like the title of a typical Leonard Cohen album.

Other bands that have used the radio station theme include White Zombie - La Sexorcisto: Devil Music and Powderfinger -  Internationalist

Millionaire Vocals
Who does lead vocals on "You Think I Ain't Worth A Dollar, But I Feel Like A Millionaire"? It sounds like the dude from Death From Above 1979. I know that Josh Homme did a mix of "Black History Month" for them, so I thought maybe this was what started their collaborations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.165.87.40 (talk • contribs)
 * It was none other than Nick Oliveri. ^^ ... see "Six Shooter" off Deaf or Rated R's "Quick and to the Pointless" for comparison.. --Johnnyw 11:05, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
 * And what a great song it is. :: Rated R  Leg of Lamb 22:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Personal
Jesus Christ that is long. It should be shorted, honesty who cares about legal personal. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 222.153.227.123 (talk • contribs).
 * You are right, that is quite a list. I must have missed out on when that was done... Thx for pointing that out. --Johnnyw 10:35, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Doesn´t Gene Troutmann play on half a song or something? He is in the credits on the CD inlay.

God is in the radio
Can anyone tell what they are saying when the song goes very silent. I think its like backwards talking or something. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.188.116.199 (talk • contribs).
 * It sounds a little bit it's a sound snipped of a a sigh and then voice in reverse, doesn't it? Don't know what it supposed to say though or if it is intended to be something more than just gibberish. -- Johnny w  talk  16:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I reversed the bit and the final words sound very much like "We're ants." The couple of words before that - I can't even guess. -- Johnny w  talk  17:12, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Good article nomination on hold
This article's Good Article promotion has been put on hold. During review, some issues were discovered that can be resolved without a major re-write. This is how the article, as of June 14, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:

should be removed because (1) It's kind of a wonky fact. The deaf can "feel" most songs on the album (or any album) that have a strong enough beat if they use subwoofers, high volume, etc... (2) It's original research. The last sentence in Tracklisting needs a reference.
 * 1. Well written?: Generally good here. I would still recommend that the article go through a solid copyediting.  It never hurts to read the article aloud to catch minor errors.  Here are a few things I noticed. In the first sentence "album" should not be wikilinked. A comma is needed after "magnum opus"  What does "mainstream success in the media" mean?  Record sales?  Reviews (b/c that's already the critics)? Positive coverage?  Appearances on late night shows?  I would recommend taking that out, or being more specific.  I would also add "available" to the end of the last sentence in the lead section.  Take out "as of June 6, 2007" as that will sound hopelessly dated in weeks.  That figure is not likely to change much, and can be adjusted if it does in the future.  If you think it does change often, just add as of 2007, to alert future editors to check it periodically.  Quotation marks should follow terminal punctuation (periods, commas, etc...)  That means "yada, yada, yada." The Yahoo quote should be removed, as it is a joke and not actual commentary on the quality of the album.  If it is kept, it should only be used to explain that Grohl is not typically a drummer.  There should be a comma after "great success"  The last three facts in the Variations section should be turned into prose.  The Artwork section should be turned into prose. There should be a comma after "musician Dave Catching"
 * 2. Factually accurate?: This statement: "This is widely known as "The Real Song For The Deaf" because a deaf person could "feel" the song if using the right subwoofer."
 * 3. Broad in coverage?: I almost failed the article for on this criteria, but I wanted to give you a chance to fix it - but you only have a week. I think that, prior to the Critical reception section, you would benefit from having a section (or sections) on the album development. How did Grohl sign on? How did they choose a producer? What was their goal for the album?  Were there snafus that almost halted production?  Where did they record? All those kind of questions.  To see an article that is well done in this regard, see Enta Da Stage.  In the first sentence, you might want to mention briefly (in parenthesis) who Dave Grohl is (like "guitarist of Nirvana fame" or "lead guitarist for the Foo Fighters," or something like that)
 * 4. Neutral point of view?: I would say yes here. Even though it is mostly glowing, it is substantiated with outside critics.
 * 5. Article stability? No edit wars.
 * 6. Images?: Great here.

Please address these matters soon and then leave a note here showing how they have been resolved. After 48 hours the article should be reviewed again. If these issues are not addressed within 7 days, the article may be failed without further notice. Thank you for your work so far. — Esprit15d (talk ¤ contribs) 13:24, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I second your opinion, especially regarding 3. Actually, I was quite surprised to see the QOTSA albums nomination, since I closely followed the articles after working on lots of QOTSA stuff a year ago. Not sure if I would be able to join on a ride to get this thing to GA though, since I have some other babies to look after right now, but hopefully, due to Era Vulgaris there will be sufficient Queens fans to fill in. And on a side note: Grohl was the drummer for Nirvana; I would say he's actually more acclaimed for his drumming skills than for his singing/guitar duties with Foo Fighters.-- Johnny w  talk  15:42, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm also for this, though I'd be inclined to simply fail the review based on the fact that there's almost no background information rovided at all, the lead needs to be more expansive and there's some basci wikifying needed (here and there). The fact that it's on hold gives it a little bit of time, but this article needs some serious work before being GA level. -- linca linca  03:22, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Well, I did my best to improve the article according to the hints, and I have re-take descriptive grammar test for college credit tomorrow. I'm afraid I can't contribute anymore today, and tomorrow is the deadline for final statement about Good article. Does it have any chance now?  Broken soul   talk  14:14, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd say, relax, don't worry about the article. After passing the test (good luck :) work on the issues step by step. Rushing things would do no good for you and the article.. Maybe I'll join in next week, when I have time. Then, I'd resubmit the article. -- Johnny w  talk  19:07, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Johnny's right. Real world first. This can wait. It'll happen before long, I'm sure. I would encourage enlisting more people who can be constructive and possibly one or two who can be completely objective too. -- linca linca  04:25, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

GA hold follow-up
First I would like to apologize for not getting back. I am working on a FAC as well as real life, and this slipped my mind. I rarely put articles on hold, and I imagined someone else would do follow-up when the seven days were up, but I was clearly mistaken. Again, apologies.

Second, I am really impressed by the real improvement in this article since I read it last. The Overview and background section has grown and expanded, and gives nice insight into the article. Overall, I see major improvement. However...I still have to fail it for the following reasons:
 * 1) The article still suffers from prose issues: parenthetical phrases that chop up sentences, run-on sentences, and sentences that cram in too much information are the biggest offenders. This is a perfect example: "Dave Grohl put his band on temporary hiatus [5][6] (despite Foo Fighters having already recorded material) which delayed the release of their album, One By One to October 22, 2002[7], because of touring duties with Queens of the Stone Age."

 * 1) Bulleted subheadings are bad. Well written prose is always preferred over sparse lists, especially when a list is unnecessary.  This article abounds with lists, and I think there are even more than the last time.
 * 2) The songs from which the audio samples are taken are not discussed in the article, making their fair use claim tenuous.
 * 3) Inline references should appear after punctuation.

I think with more effort this will will reach GA status. Best wishes!-- Esprit15d (talk ¤ contribs) 13:21, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

GA Nom
Hey, I've just done a partial assessment and there's just a few more things needed and then you'll be cooking in the GA kitchen. • More imagery would really be appropriate, perhaps photos of the band including Grohl, live photos of the tour where Grohl played with them. • The article indicates that Grohl only played with the band for 3 months and then left, but I saw him with them when I went to Big Day Out in 2003, Foo Fighters and QOTSA both played in the same day and he played for both, so there's either an error there or he came back. Either way, if he came back, it should be noted. If not and he never left, then the dates he was with the band need to be amended. • There's no expert opinion section relating to the actual music of the album. You've got parts of it dotted throughout "critical reception" and "Album production and release." If this information can be encapsulated so as to depict the kind of music in its own section, that'd be good. • Although AMG uses several terms to describe the music type, WP:ALBUMS suggests not to use quite so many. One or two is best and they should be basic types. I'd suggest Heavy Rock and Experimental Metal as the descriptors. Once these things are done, the album should be all the way there. -- linca linca  04:34, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That's odd, there are youtube vids of Big day out 2003 and it's Joey playing. And on the subject of opinions on the music, should it just all be placed together in say, 'Musical Styles'? red157 16:52, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I should clarify, Grohl was on drums but stepped down a few songs from the end because FF played right after. And yes, "Musical styles" is the appropriate name. -- linca linca  06:41, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * So, it's obvious that if they're around playing together, Grohl makes appearance on drums for QOTSA. Even though Lanegan wasn't official member of the band, when QOTSA and Mark Lanegan were around, they also played some songs together, so it should be noted that he was joining the band sporadically when they were playing at the same festivals here and there, that's all, no big conspiracy theory... Broken soul 09:53, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Even so, it should be noted that he does, and threason it should be here in stead of on the band's article is because this album's creation is its antecedant. -- linca linca  10:10, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * But then again, Lanegan has played with QOTSA spontaneously a number of times and it seems this Big day performance was the only 'relapse' so to speak on Grohl's part... And what songs did Grohl play, as I'd have expected him to do 'A Song for the Deaf', but Joey play ed that. red157 20:06, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Just an FYI - a musical styles section is not necessary for a GA (or any) article. I did a quick search, and I don't believe any such subheading exists in Wikipedia.-- Esprit15d (talk ¤ contribs) 13:18, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
 * 'Musical Styles' specifically? Maybe not, but many GA articles have something alone those lines, obviously worded differently. If not, somebody renominate it as that is the only thing I see this article lacking. Red157 04:09, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Bloody Hammer
Does anyone know who sang this? It sounds like Jack Black to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joshuah Hounshell (talk • contribs) 12:47, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, Oliveri. Mondo Generator rather than Qotsa used to play it live infrequently. Skomorokh  incite 13:50, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

"A" Song for the Dead/Deaf
Is there anything that can be done about this particular part of tracklisting? Every now and then some unregistered user comes along and deletes both A's, while the tracklist on the album's back cover clearly shows that they should be there. Can this be protected or something? -NineInchRuiner (talk) 09:35, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Critical reception
The article does not give any negative criticism. I'm proposing that "Release and reception" be split into two sections, "Release" and "Critical reception." Granted the album was generally a success, there should be some negative reviews added to the section to be more objective. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tea4all (talk • contribs) 05:09, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Genre
The genre parameter in the infobox currently contains the following list:
 * Stoner rock, alternative rock, alternative metal, neo-psychedelia, hard rock

Back in 2008 when the article was being considered for GA, the list was shorter:
 * Hard rock, alternative rock

I think we need to follow the sources which describe the genre of the album.
 * Allmusic: no overall album genre in the prose review.
 * Discogs.com: unreliable.
 * Spin magazine: hard rock
 * Pitchfork: rock
 * Rolling Stone: "old" metal (rather than new metal). "This is prog grunge... arena rock stylings".
 * NME: rock
 * Pop Matters: "pure rock and roll", "hard rock".
 * Stylus magazine: rock, heavy metal.
 * Houston Press: rock.
 * Punk News: unreliable review by user.
 * AV Club: hard rock.
 * Dusted magazine: no overall album genre.
 * Consequence of Sound: "mainstream rock".

These reviews show that the stoner, alternative and psychedelic labels are not appropriate for this album's genre. We should put only rock and hard rock, as most reviews are centered on those two genres. Other genres such as heavy metal are mentioned less often. Binksternet (talk) 16:28, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Resulting in genre warfare.
I'm talking towards Binksternet. I've never seen him work or edit on any Queens of the Stone Age page, he probably hasn't listened to any album or song by them anyways. He continues to edit on the pages and thinks he knows what he's doing. Just because he is a higher wiki editor than most of us, he shouldn't be the one in charge neither to take over, over other people.

There was no genre warfare before your editing came into hand. You are continually insulting me about the genre changes and even saying I'm not sourcing them when I did with my last edit, falsely accusing me.

All in all I think you should let other people help out and not be the boss here and take over in charge. I'm a tremendous QOTSA fan, maybe you know more about Wikipedia editing than I do, but you do not know more about QOTSA than I do, especially involving their genres. TheHolyKiwi (talk) 07:31, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

 * Read WP:No original research. The genre parameter is not for you to decide because of what you think is right. It is for WP:Verifiable genres that come from WP:Reliable sources. The WikiProject Albums even has a list of reliable sources: WikiProject Albums/Sources. You can ask them to help out. Binksternet (talk) 07:57, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Still though, you just arrived on editing Queens of the Stone Age Wikipedia pages, and you're acting like your the head superintendent. You're not even apart of the taskforce which I am apart of. Also, I am still bothered though that you gave me a last warning on editing genres resulting in a soon to be ban, even though I did source it. So if you're were a little nicer and told it to me lightly it would've been better, it'd be great if you apologized or at least cleared it up. TheHolyKiwi (talk) 08:16, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

 * I'm sorry that I'm the one who arrived on the scene to discover that the band's fans have been deciding the genre in a manner that does not fit Wikipedia's guidelines. It was going to happen sooner or later – somebody was going to come and spoil the party, most likely somebody trying to perform a bit of cleanup. That somebody happened to be me. I did not realize at first that the genre problem was so deeply rooted and that the old practices would be so strongly defended.
 * I'm not head superintendent, but seven years of fairly heavy participation have given me a firm grasp of Wikipedia's guidelines. The guidelines emphasize very strongly that everything should be WP:Verifiable. If song, album and artist genres are determined by various editor opinions then they are not verifiable. Binksternet (talk) 00:36, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Songs for the Deaf is what musical genres? RFC
The album Songs for the Deaf by Queens of the Stone Age should have one or more genres listed in the infobox to describe the album as a whole. What should we put in the genre parameter?
 * 1: Rock music
 * 2: Hard rock
 * 3: Rock and roll
 * 4: Alternative rock
 * 5: Stoner rock
 * 6: Alternative metal
 * 7: Neo-psychedelia
 * 8: Heavy metal

Note that album genres, like every fact on Wikipedia, should be WP:Verifiable, referenced with reliable sources such as those found in the list hosted at WikiProject Albums/Sources. The songs on this album have their own genres which vary quite a bit, but the album genre is not a collection of all the song genres. Rather, the album genre is its own entity, being about the album overall. Binksternet (talk) 00:56, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

Discussion

 * 1 and 2, per argument made above at Talk:Songs for the Deaf. Reviewers have offered a number of genres but the most prevalent are the ones saying "rock" and "hard rock". A third choice is "heavy metal" but I don't think that that genre appears often enough to rank as highly as rock and hard rock. "Stoner rock" is specifically denied by two sources which say that the album is a break from the band's usual stoner rock. Binksternet (talk) 00:56, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

 * Just stick in anything that you can find sourced. Since you stick with "hard rock" I agree to use it as the only genre. Whatever floats your boat man. TheHolyKiwi (talk) 11:24, 5 November 2014 (UTC)

 * 2 and 8. Reviews on Metacritic seem split between "hard rock" and "metal". For the sake of consensus, I would settle for just "hard rock". NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 02:10, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

 * 1 and 2 - Rock and hard rock are the only sourced genres in the article, and they are also the most noted by reviewers. Infobox presents an overview; what represents the record. Those two genres do according to the sources used. Unless multiple reviewers note heavy metal or any of the other genres as significant aspects of the album or categorize it as such, they should not be included in the infobox. They could however be mentioned in the prose (in a composition/style section, or under reception). Suggestion : include all or most of the sources' statements in the prose, as opposed to having 10 citations next to genres in the infobox. Unrelated note : Release should be its own section per WP:MOSALBUM --Lpdte77 (talk) 08:23, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

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2019 Reissue
Universal music will be releasing a 2019 reissue as "Gatefold Anniversary Reissue" on 2 LPs. LP1 is the album in the edited/radio versions and on LPs the uncensored versions due to release 22 November 2019. Source Saemikneu (talk) 19:28, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Did Gene Trautmann really play on Millionaire and Go With The Flow
Whenever I try to find sources to see if Dave or Gene played on millionaire or go with the flow there's basically nothing. I can't find anything for millionaire and I keep seeing sources going back and forth on who played on go with the flow. I can't find any citations for either song so does anybody have any idea? Susrage (talk) 02:52, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Songs for the Deaf


text:
Talk:Queens of the Stone Age

Rate of Success
I'm a manager trying to gain some insights from the band's history. About how many gigs did you play in 1996? 97? 98? 99? 2000? Was it a curve? Was there a disciplined choice about how many gigs to play out, ie. 2 a month, 4 a month? Who paid for the gigs-- the band members? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.72.119.125 (talk) 11:25, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

OFFICIAL RESPONSE
We did an hundred shows each year. Joshuamichaelhomme (talk) 08:52, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Discography article
Hey, I was over at the discography article, and it has a long list of B-sides and bonus tracks on it. However, these aren't explained over there and most of them aren't mentioned elsewhere that I can find. Just by way of suggestion, people might find it useful if this list offered up a brief comment on each track explaining where the tracks can be found.Warhorus (talk) 17:08, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a good suggestion, all it would take is a brief comment (As you mentioned) and a link to the respective release it came from, if applicable. I would start, but I'm lazy and am procrastinating for the time being. Red157 22:19, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Lanegan and the self titled
Here's a video clip to use as citation on the Lanegan not participating on the s/t due to 'circumstances beyond his control.' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teePMuiCRpY The extenuating circumstances were actually drug rehab. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.232.123.104 (talk) 00:58, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

Genre
Shouldn't stoner rock be added to the infobox? I know there are some editors of this article who absolutely believe that the band are not stoner rock, there are also others who believe that because the band reject the term it shouldn't be added, but it is cited by two sources at the beginning of the article that the band are frequently described as stoner rock. Shouldn't this override POV opinions and the band's own descriptions? Wikipedia is made up of third party sources and it seems to me that enough of these third party sources exist in order to add the genre. If I could find five reliable sources that described Metallica as a hardcore hip hop band, that would surely need to be added as well (unless of course, there were sources that specifically attempted to discredit this opinion, in which case it would be disputed). That might sound stupid, but that is the way this site works. James25402 (talk) 12:13, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia's information is of course based on references from third party sources, but not if those are blatantly wrong. An argument broke out when a guy found two(!) sources from established sites, both stating Mark Lanegan sang the song I Wanna Make it Wit Chu on the Desert Sessions. This isn't true, but by what you're proposing, false information would have been added to the article until equally established sources could be found to counteract it. So, basically, I don't think Stoner Rock should be added. My personal opinion, but then again, it also happens to be the opinion of every single person with the stones to call them a fan of this band.  Red157 (talk • contribs) 22:11, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope. In university you'd learn a great deal of what is considered "a reliable soruce" and what is not. So please revise your understanding on the source criticism and then return back to the matter. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 21:51, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
 * That is an entirely different thing. If facts exist to the contrary, it can be disputed and then removed. However, on an entirely subjective matter such as genre, it is therefore reliable sources that would be used to determine which information is in the article. If sources stated Mark Lanegan sang that song, but other sources were available which disputed it, that's a different thing, because it can be factually proven who sang that particular song, whereas genres are all based on opinion. However, not on wikipedia editors' opinions, but on the opinions of reliable third-party sources. James25402 (talk) 11:24, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope.Not an entirely subjective matter. You are not an third-party source unless you make an official publication regarding to your opinion.
 * So far, there has been presented strong, reliable sources that clearly indicate that Queens of the Stona Age do not go under what we call as "stoner rock". Therefore, shall it be removed.
 * Dear James25402, you can contribute to this article by finding reliable sources supporting your very views. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 21:51, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Only me who think Neo-psychedelia should be added? They've got many psychedelic songs like "A song for the dead", "Misfit love" and "I think I lost my headache" etc.

/Mullweiser
 * It used to be on there, but was removed when stoner rock and such was removed. Though I agree Neo-psychedelia is kind of fitting.  Red157 (talk • contribs) 16:33, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Later today I saw someone had put only "Heavy Metal" as genre which I think the most of us can agree is misfitting for them, so I changed to only "Rock" so long. /Mullweiser

 * Moved all the recent genre discussions together (For further info, look back on the last 'Genre' discussion further up the talk page. Gonna' conduct my own personal edit of the main article about the genre's, so I hope folk agree here, and feel free to tell me about it if you think I've added a completely wrong genre.  Red157 (talk • contribs) 22:51, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Many articles of QOTSA list single songs and albums as "Hard Rock". I think this is incorrect. I consider "Hard Rock" to be Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Free stuff...I'm not questioning the fact that they ARE Hard Rock, but Hard Rock on it's own seems incorrect to me. If someone is replying to this can please put a reply on my talk page so I know there is a reply here. tsunamishadow (talk) 22:40, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Again, I had to remove "stoner rock" from the genre list. So far, there has been provided no reliable sources ever implying that Queens of the Stone Age would be stoner rock. On the contrary, there has been references where the band even rejects such a classification (http://thefade.net/oldsite/articles/jam991124.html)!

Second, I don't think it is really nice that you just make changes to the article without ever even discussing about it here. So dear Shallowmead077, please discuss any further changes first here before applying them. Thanks. Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:48, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Revised the two new sources suggesting that Queens of the Stoneage would be "stoner rock". Short comments on both references: 1. http://observer.com/2013/12/stoner-rock-royals-queens-of-the-stone-age-play-brooklyn-on-saturday/: A mere headline is not a "valid source". The article itself doesn't even mention the term "stoner rock". 2. http://www.allmusic.com/artist/queens-of-the-stone-age-mn0000376422/biography: The AllMusic sidebar may not be used for genres. Also the fact that the band is "formed from the ashes of stoner rock icons Kyuss" does in no way indicate that Queens of the Stone Age would fall under "stoner rock". Jayaguru-Shishya (talk) 20:58, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

 * If I'm honest, I think we should stick with "Rock" or "alternative rock" and leave it at that. Each album sounds so different from each other that labelling them as "stoner rock" or whatever is just inaccurate. Stoner rock (they aren't stoner rock to anyone with fucking ears, but whatever) just causes too many debates, alternative rock will do just fine in my opinion because no one can argue that they're not rock, right? More genres are just unnecessary. It's worked fine for the Like Clockwork page and its singles, so I say just go ahead and impose it on the band's article. TheBronzeMex (talk) 22:46, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

 * Agreed, I do not see any reason why we do not just label them rock or alternative rock, no reason for obscure genres only mentioned in a minority of sources to be listed in the infobox at all.  STATic  message me!  04:48, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Sources for Stoner Rock label: Spin Magazine, MTV, NY Daily New, Fuse.tv, SFGate. Whether Homme likes it or not, lots of publications still refer to it as stoner rock (at least for some albums and songs). OhNo itsJamie  Talk 19:55, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

 * I agree with you guys. Here is an original pdf from the published article, where Josh himself states that their music is not stoner rock . (Shout! Weekly. Cover story. Uncompromising rock: Queens of the Stone Age bring summer tour to Stir Cove. August 1-7, 2013.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jayaguru-Shishya (talk • contribs)

 * They've strong connections with the stoner rock genre, (as suggested in some of these sources,, , , , , , , , , , ) However, the majority of these sources seem to suggest that that the band shifted away from their early stoner rock sound in their subsequent albums (like this). Simply "alternative rock" or "alternative rock, hard rock" (or "alternative rock, hard rock, stoner rock (early)", to be precise) would work fine for the infobox in my opinion. The 100% omission of the term "stoner rock" from the article is disruptive as they've been previously labeled as such; this should be explicitly covered in the musical style section. Myxomatosis57 (talk) 20:08, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
 * That works for me. It's a waste of everyone's time to quibble over the genres in the infobox. It should be sufficient to cover it in the musical styles section. OhNo itsJamie  Talk 20:19, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Totally agree. I do think we should just leave it at rock, but if people want to stick in "stoner rock (early)" then that's cool too. As Myxomatosis pointed out, most of those sources imply that they've deviated from the whole "stoner rock" thing, so simply sticking "stoner rock" in the genre would be incorrect even when taking these sources into account. If someone wants to cover the whole stoner rock thing in the "musical styles" section, I say go right ahead. TheBronzeMex (talk) 20:57, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't see how "stoner rock" can be omitted considering the plethora of sources that called the band/their music "stoner rock" at some point in their history (see my reference for it in the music style section). Maybe Josh Homme doesn't like the label, but he's not an unbiased secondary source, nor is it up to him how his band is covered. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 20:22, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Actually, you seem to be right. Leaving it just as "alternative rock, stoner rock" would be the best, I guess. Myxomatosis57 (talk) 20:25, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

 * I've protected the page since you're all edit warring with one hand and discussing the issue with the other hand. Let me know when you've worked out a solution. -- Laser brain  (talk)  20:27, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Desert rock. This is another genre that should be added to this article. It a genre that plays key element in the band's sound; and is prevalent well throughout their discography. Not only does desert rock have a distinct sound in the band's music but Queens Of The Stone Age are in fact one of genre's innovators. Queens Of The Stone Age played a key in the Palm Desert Scene, the desert rock scene that grew in the 90s. Along with other bands like Kyuss (which Josh Homme of QOTSA was in), QOTSA deserve to be recognised for their desert rock sound. I felt it nessesary to deliver this message before I under took the task of adding the genre myself, though I hope I would not need to as someone else will. Thank You J.A.F (talk) 15:17, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Natasha Schneider's Death...
...Is irrelevant in this article as it is presented right now (one random sentence in the Era Vulgaris section, taking into account she was a Queen of the Stone Age only during the Lullabies to Paralyze tour), in my opinion this should only be mentioned in her own article, along with Eleven's article. Any thoughts?
 * Only just seen that edit and I have to agree. I was one of the folk on the keeping the notice up on her wiki page when there wasn't a proper reference, thus breaking wiki rules, so it's not like I don't care about Natasha Shneider's death. But it doesn't belong in this article. And it pains me to say that.   Red157  ( talk •  contribs )  01:16, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Can somebody clean up
Can somebody clean up the lead on their discography please. I'm norwegian so i'm not as good at english. --Be Black Hole Sun (talk) 14:05, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Members section
Changed all the code words and such since there is no need to save the space when the former menbers are in a separete section. Should the same be with the Queens of the Stone Age contributors article?

Yee or ney..?

Roger Workman (talk) 19:16, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

6th album release date
Someone added the upcoming sixth album to the discography section with a release date of 2010. This is unconfirmed, seeing as there is so little news about it and most rumors say its coming out late this year. I changed it to 2009/2010. Is this OK, or should it just be removed altogether from the discography seeing as so little is known about it?--Wolfemiester (talk) 07:40, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Josh Homme in 2009
Could someone add that Josh Homme is currently touring with EoDM until the end of August 2009? I don't know how to make a citation. --209.202.54.144 (talk) 21:23, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

"Dance-Orientated"
(I'd fix it myself but I don't know how to edit the Wiki. Also: I don't know what's wrong with it.) 68.41.20.99 (talk) 00:38, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Nick Oliveri and self title 2010 release
Only source that says anything about a re-release is http://www.qotsa.com/news/default.aspx?nid=27027 and that's of Rated R. It no where states that Nick Oliveri is joining to play with them. --FrostedBitesCereal (talk) 19:56, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Changes to article!
Hey everyone. I've decided that this article has been crap for long enough, and that it needs a serious overhaul. To start, I just removed from the lead paragraph, as it is uncited and I couldn't find any source showing this quote. I'll keep trying to find one, though. AC (talk) 03:12, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * "which has been described by Homme as "robot rock", stating that he "wanted to create a heavy sound based on a solid jam, and just pound it into your head"."

 * Edit Report for Aug 25 Okay, just spent some time doing some clean-up. The article, when editing, is a friggin' mess. It seems every time someone added something, they just added more citations instead of seeing if the old ones could be re-used. While this isn't always bad, as more citations are usually good, there's now 50 citations and each one is used maybe twice or three times, at most. So one of my goals is to see if it is possible to consolidate the citations. I also added some quotes, specifically I found an article where Homme mentions the 'robot'-like sound, but I added it not under the lead paragraph where it was but under the Rated R section, as this is the time period in which he mentioned it. Plus, the robot rock doesn't seem fitting in the lead, as it's not really that major of a genre to QOTSA, especially with the newer albums which are more melodic and flowing. So my overhaul is not complete, but I need some rest and a smoke before I keep going. Any help is always appreciated!AC (talk) 04:01, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Current members
It seems that currently the core of the band is really just Van Leeuwen, Castillo and Homme. Shuman and Fertita are on and off members, while Castillo and Van Leeuwen have been touring and writing consistantly from Songs for the Deaf. Any thoughts? AC (talk) 03:16, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Dean and Mikey are most definitely proper members. This is their second tour with the band (remember, both Joey and Troy didn't contribute to SftD - only toured it) and have both recorded with them on B-sides to Era Vulgaris singles.  Red157  22:40, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Better photo for Joey, please ;-) Without people standing in the front. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.75.168.149 (talk) 17:30, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Members
Hey there – just wanted to know what was wrong with the edits that I made to the members/timeline sections. If you wanted to discuss it, now's a great time. I'm just trying to get your opinion here. All I did was use the contributors page and some of the individual articles to help neaten up the section, removing all of the touring members, guests, etc., leaving behind only the proper, full-time members. These are the sort of edits that I make across a lot of pages (in other words, they look similar). What say you? Maybe we could come to a consensus here. Regards,  4TheWynne (talk) (contribs)  22:32, 3 January 2015 (UTC)

Also, the reason why I put Grohl in the timeline for a second time is because it stated on the contributors page that he was also a full-time member from 2012–2013 (and that he recorded majority of the drums for ...Like Clockwork). I felt as though he was more than just a temporary replacement for Costillo, so that's why I put him in for a second time, making him out to be a full-time member until the band enlisted Theodore. What is your opinion on this?  4TheWynne (talk) (contribs)  06:39, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

 * Yo - I reverted your (appreciated) edit due to a number of errors with it, including the removal of members such as Lanegan and Johannes, omitted information (such as Mikey doing a little bit of keys now). I can understand the confusion with the whole touring member thing, but it's important to remember that Josh and Josh alone is the only consistent member of the band (QOTSA is pretty much Josh + band). Everyone is temporary, but everyone you see on this timeline are official members (including Dan Druff, however short his stay might have been). That's why Dave's Like Clockwork contribution isn't noted, because he was a guest on the record; not an official member (not in million years would Dave tour with QOTSA for that record, for a myriad of reasons including TCV and Foos). It does say on the liner notes "Queens of the Stone Age Are; Joshua Homme, Dean Fertita, Michael Shuman and Troy Van Leeuwen". As Jon not being included in the aforementioned quote from the album, it's probably because he was a late addition and his contribution to the album was very small (drums on one track). Your timeline is a lot neater looking, but because of that misses a fuckton of important and necessary information such as this. Is it a bit messy? Yeah, it is. And that's how it is. Cheers for going about this the correct way, and I hope this clears it up a bit. TheBronzeMex (talk) 17:38, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

 * Ah, I see – I know this might sound kind of silly, but if this article is, as you say, one of those articles that guaranteed to be messy or lacking correct or accurate information in places (and if "that's how it is"), then why don't we use this discussion to work out what we can fix, and how we go about it – as in what comes in, what stays and what goes. This way, we can largely improve the article so that it is (almost) GA-worthy. How about it?  4TheWynne (talk) (contribs)  22:25, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

 * Go for it. I will be honest though, I've been very hard pressed to find ways in which the timeline section could be tided up without omitting essential information (which is why I always stress that no one touch the fucking thing without talking about it first). Information first, aesthetics second. If anyone else has any ideas, by all means spill your brains. TheBronzeMex (talk) 19:29, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

 * For starters, using the contributors page, I think we should expand the members section so that it includes the former full-time members (or at least... the former members that have worked with Homme on a full-time basis). The biggest thing that needs to be looked at is who needs to be omitted from the timeline. There are people being represented in the timeline that are only known for touring with the band (such as Natasha Shneider, for example), and it needs to be fixed so that it includes only the aforementioned former members, along with the current members. After putting enough thought into it, the members that I think should be included are: Mark Lanegan (simply as "vocals"), Dave Catching, Brendon McNichol, Nick Oliveri, Alain Johannes, Alfredo Hernández, Gene Trautmann, Dave Grohl and Joey Castillo. I think Dan Druff is in the same boat as Grohl (in terms of his second appearance, as he seems to have only been a session member), and people like Matt Cameron, Chris Goss and Shneider are session/touring members that aren't essential to the article. All others that are in the timeline should then be omitted. If you want, I can provide a draft for you here, and if you approve of it (although it shouldn't have to be like that), then we can implement it into the article, and then at least one of the sections is tidy. Let me know your thoughts on this.  4TheWynne (talk) (contribs)  00:13, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

 * Natasha should be represented for several reasons among which she was on Songs for the Deaf: Evenrød (talk) 22:28, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

 * A session/touring member, in any case, considering that she was only on Songs for the Deaf and the subsequent tour.  4TheWynne (talk) (contribs)  23:13, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

 * It needs to be clarified what is meant by "Former Members". Is that the people who appeared on albums (in which case it's a massive list btw) or is it the live members? And it also needs to be clarified what instruments are listed for those members. For example, Michael Shuman played guitar in the studio for Like Clockwork, but has never played it live. Josh has played drums in the studio on two albums and bass on four albums. He played bass live too on the Lullabies tour. As did Troy, who played bass on Lullabies and Era Vulgaris.

 * The timeline chart should be reverted to the way it was. At the moment it only has one instrument per person and some of it is incorrect. Catching and McNichol never sang in Queens. Juve curr (talk) 03:10, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

 * Sorry for the confusion. The former members part doesn't include former session/touring members, but only full-time members with their main roles outlined (for example, while Shuman did indeed record guitar for an album, that was all it was, and was never his main role in the band). I like to combine everything in the legend anyway so that there is only one instrument per person. And I wouldn't just revert it all back because one or two things need fixing. I hope you understand my point of view. Regards,  4TheWynne (talk) (contribs)  05:16, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Desert Rock (genre)
Desert rock. This is another genre that should be added to this article. It a genre that plays key element in the band's sound; and is prevalent well throughout their discography. Not only does desert rock have a distinct sound in the band's music but Queens Of The Stone Age are in fact one of genre's innovators. Queens Of The Stone Age played a key in the Palm Desert Scene, the desert rock scene that grew in the 90s. Along with other bands like Kyuss (which Josh Homme of QOTSA was in), QOTSA deserve to be recognised for their desert rock sound. I felt it nessesary to deliver this message before I under took the task of adding the genre myself, though I hope I would not need to as someone else will. Thank You J.A.F (talk) 15:18, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

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External links modified
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Timeline
Since the timeline is meant to only show live members and instruments is it correct that so many members have keyboard duties live, just checking to see if it's correct. OBLIVIUS (talk) 00:07, 19 July 2017 (UTC)

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Desert rock?
I would like to second J.A.F's preposition. They're pretty clearly desert rock and I think it should be displayed in the genres section. They're quite probably the most well known desert rock band, in fact. Cheers. --Storyboutme (talk) 17:49, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
 * "Desert rock" doesn't have its own Wikipedia page though, so without any wiki-link or context, it'd be meaningless to most readers. That's probably why JAF's proposition from over a year ago was ignored. That being said, if you check the stoner rock genre, it mentions its relation to desert rock, so the concept isn't currently completely ignored either. Sergecross73   msg me  12:27, 25 September 2017 (UTC)

To continue this discussion years later, perhaps the "Palm Desert Scene" article could be listed as a redirect under desert rock since it's ample enough in denoting desert rock. XXCochiseXx (talk) 20:43, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

External links modified
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Stop changing the origin from Seattle
The band is from Seattle. Josh Homme is from Palm Desert, but he was in Seattle at the University of Washington after Kyuss broke up. He later filled in at guitar for Screaming Trees and formed Queens of the Stone Age in Seattle. Their first show was at the OK Hotel just off Pioneer Square. STOP CHANGIING THE ORIGIN Flipkick89 (talk) 06:55, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

 * Their “origin” is not Seattle. The band is not “from Seattle.” The first words in the Like Clockwork booklet are “it came from the desert..” Werksergs (talk) 04:28, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Their origin is Palm Desert and that’s easily verifiable. 140.228.189.94 (talk) 14:04, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

City of origin
Seattle is not substantiated by any other article. The correct origin is Palm Desert, CA. 140.228.189.94 (talk) 14:03, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

 * The band was formed in Seattle but are based out of Palm Desert. Therefore, the band's origin is Seattle and there is a valid source to support it. HPSR (talk) 00:15, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Queens of the Stone Age


text:
List of premiers of Yukon

The Canadian territory of Yukon has had a responsible government since 1978. In the 19th century, Yukon was a segment of the Hudson's Bay Company-administered North-Western Territory and then the Canadian-administered Northwest Territories. The territory only obtained a recognizable local government in 1895 when it became a separate district of the Northwest Territories. In 1898, Yukon was made a separate territory with its own commissioner and appointed Territorial Council. Prior to 1978, the territory had a legislature with a largely advisory role and no political parties or government leader. Instead, powers were invested in a governing Commissioner appointed by the federal government.

Yukon has had nine premiers since 1978, of which five were from the Yukon Party and its predecessor the Yukon Progressive Conservative Party, two were from the Yukon Liberal Party, and two were from the Yukon New Democratic Party. Yukon is the only province or territory in Canada that has never had a native-born premier. The Government of Yukon does not publish an official list of premiers. Listed here are the terms of serve as provided by the Parliament of Canada.

Premiers of Yukon
Government Leaders of Yukon
 * colspan=10|
 * colspan=10|

Premiers of Yukon
 * colspan=10|
 * colspan=10|

title: List of premiers of Yukon


text:
User talk:Gurdeep

Hello and welcome to my usertalk page.

title: User talk:Gurdeep