text:
Talk:How-to

Old discussion archive
See: Wikipedia talk:How-to articles to discuss general policy
 * 1) Should Wikipe     dia include How-To articles?Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 * 2) Why do you dislike procedural knowledge?

(I didn't redirect, because people may wish to discuss this article, rather than general policy)

See: Wikipedia talk:How-to to discuss: e.g.:
 * 1) How should How-To articles be written?

CamelCase
Could a sysop please move HowTo to How to. --Ellmist Saturday, April 19th, 02003

 * According to Talk:Main Page/Archive 5 it was renamed HowTo as How and To are on the Common words, searching for which is not possible-list. --- User:Docu

 * This doesn't seem a valid arguent to me. Proper titling of articles should be more important than overcoming the technical limitations of the search function. -- Oliver P. 07:16 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * We could rename it to List of How-To articles, this keeps it in line with the titling of the general policy article -- User:Docu

List of how-to articles would be more in line with our rules on capitalisation. But since I'm actually campaigning to get rid of how-to articles altogether, there's not really much point in my considering that question at all... :) -- Oliver P. 07:45 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * :-) named in a similar way, they will be easier to eliminate .. (Not sure if this convinces you to contribute).
 * ok, if you want to rename the page. -- User:Docu

Hmm... Well, it starts off by saying, "A how to is".... (Actually, shouldn't it be "A how-to", rather than "A how to"?) So it starts off as a definition-type article. If I succeed in my quest to get rid of how-to articles, the lists will vanish, and we'll just be left with an article which explains the concept of a how-to. So I think the title should be how-to, in fact. -- Oliver P. 08:26 6 Jul 2003 (UTC)

 * Several lists have short introductions and several articles include lists ... thus you can make your choice. One could also argue that How-to is the better article on the topic, but then it's also a "how-to" ;-)
 * --User:Docu

How to structure the page HowTo
I would like to reorganize this topic by categories. For example, all of the cultivation How-To wikis would be relocated to a new Cultivation_how_tos page. Categories would only be added for topics that already have several wikis on this general How To page, to avoid categories having only 0 or 1 wikis.

I will go ahead and do this in one week (about 3/13/03 (international 13.3.03)) unless there is a clear consensus that it should not be done. David 17:58 Mar 6, 2003 (UTC)

It sounds like a very good idea to categorize this page, but I personally prefer that if there are not too many of them, that the categorization at least begin all on one page. That way people can browse all that is available at once. An example of this kind of all-in-one-page categorization I am referring to is at: Wikipedia_arranged_by_topic -

I also think we should make sure its items are integrated within the main subject categorization pages as well (e.g., cultivation how-tos under "Agriculture" categorization section/page) as should all items be tied together (historical timelines by subject not only accessible under the historical timeline page but also in subject category views, etc.) Brettz9 23:46 Apr 18, 2003 (UTC)

Ok, I changed it to be categorized. Again, I think it is nice to be all on one page, but if for some reason, people want it to be separated, you can of course use the categories as a base for making links to subpages (or make up entirely new categories). - Brettz9 08:32 Apr 19, 2003 (UTC)

(talk above moved from Wikipedia talk:How-to articles)

What was wrong with "Recreation and Hobbies"? "Extra-curricular Activities" seems to be related to items outside of a school curriculum? - Brettz9 22:34 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Howdy .... Just wanted to say that "how to" does work in google ... reddi 18:22, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I think that this page should be carved up and merged into Wikibooks. -Smack 07:51, 30 Nov 2003 (UTC)
 * I agree. Wikibooks is a much more appropriate place for how to stuff now. theresa knott 13:05, 1 Dec 2003 (UTC)
 * I'd support that too. The same goes for things like the cooking section. Angela 02:06, 2 Dec 2003 (UTC)
 * Agree too - these articles does not belong in the encyclopedic section. I will be moving the "Bicycle repair" sections real soon now. Egil
 * It is now at Bicycle Repair in Wikibooks -- Egil

So whats the final word on "How-to" articles ? Every time I go to the VfD page I see a How-to getting deleted or moved out of wikipedia. So how is this page still on wikipedia and what makes the lists on this page valid ? Jay 19:02, 19 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * I think they are all going to be moved, and this page will be here until they are all gone. It serves as a useful place to find the lists in order to move them, but it isn't really a valid page anymore. Perhaps it could be moved out of the main namespace now? Angela. 08:21, Feb 23, 2004 (UTC)

According to the general policy (How-to) they are still part of wikipedia. The later page hasn't been re-written recently. -- User:Docu

 * About How-tos, which ones to include/move to Wikibooks for classrooms, how-to update How-to, see Village_pump -- User:Docu - 24 Feb 2004

Relationship to WikiBooks?
I've recently discovered WikiBooks and just today discovered this page. No apparent mention on this page of where one draws the line between a WikiBooks instruction manual and a WP one. Experts in either, please comment. Robin Patterson 22:13, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

Shouldn't all of these be at Wikibooks? WhisperToMe 22:02, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Yeah, probably. A lot of the article seems like a remnant from the past. --Jonik 20:40, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Move to Wikibooks
In early Wikipedia history, a number of How-To's was added to the encyclopedia. Wikibooks is now considered the correct place for these howto's. The current list is really obsolete, and a remnant from the past. I have moved much of the list to How-to/Move to Wikibooks. All articles on that list should be considered candidates for moving to Wikibooks. By saying candidates I mean exactly that. For each article, it should be considered if it is suitable to retain it in Wikipedia. -- Egil 08:49, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I went through that list and the one on this article page, individually tagged any articles that still need to be moved, and removed the list. See Category:Move to Wikibooks for the current listing of articles that still need to be moved. -- Beland

linux cmty originated HowTo
Although the origin is not likely easy to prove, the linix origin seems easy to *disprove*. For example, the book (A Handbook of Weaves By Gustaf Hermann Oelsner, Samuel S. Dale Published 1952 Courier Dover Publications Crafts / Hobbies ISBN 0486231690) contains How To guides, and the publication date predates the existence of linux. Unless someone has an alternate interpretation or meaning, this linux reference should be deleted (now pending removal) dr.ef.tymac 17:32, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * In the Linux community it is spelled HOWTO, a single word, no camel caps and often in all caps. The recommended (though not required) format is laid out in the HOWTO-template for big HOWTOs and in the automated JavaScript driven The Linux Documentation Project HOWTO Generator. So while the Linux community through the Linux Documentation Project perhaps did not create the How To it did create the HOWTO and contuinues to do so after more than 10 years of activity. One could perhaps have two articles, one for How To and one for HOWTO though I believe it would confuse more than it would clarify. You might want to clarify the distinction in the article. --20:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Simply removing all references to Linux, and perhaps even the internet, would not harm this article in the least. Huw Powell (talk) 19:51, 6 February 2012 (UTC)
 * HOWTO files are a fairly widespread resource in computing and have a noticeably different character to a more traditional 'how-to' generally aimed at a novice audience, instead filling a niche between a lay tutorial and specialist documentation. Forcing the unspaced term often improves the quality of search results due to its prevalence on technical forums and wikis and absence elsewhere. The deletion of a space makes it simpler to access the file from a system without a GUI, a distinct advantage for computer documentation. The capitalisation also serves a findability purpose in that many programs (notably command line utilities and web browsers) sort lists "ASCIIbetically", where HOWTO will place above Howto, howto, and even aowto, thus ensuring that important documentation will be near the top of the list. Both the lack of a space and the use of capitalisation are seen, for similar reasons, in the naming of the README file. It seems pertinent to note here that the similarly informal README file receives its own wiki page, rather than being a footnote in (say) User guide or ignored completely. While HOWTOs are certainly less common than READMEs they are far from rare, are distinct from general how-tos, and at least warrant a mention here. --82.2.54.98 (talk) 22:41, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

Advise Howtos' authors to write it in Wikihowto
When someone want to put a Howto in Wikipedia he should be advised to write it in Wikihowto (http://howto.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page), the Wikia site offering open and free know-how, do it yourself guides, independent solutions and tutorials in a diverse range of subjects and languages (English, Spanish, French...). This place would be right. Would it be possible to create a template for that kind of advise and use it on howto articles ?--Jean-Baptiste Martin jbm.schtuff.com 20:18, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that Wikihowto should be added to the ext links as it is a wiki style howto site and is (tobe) a proposed Wikimedia project.

 * Egads! Nothing personal against the Wikihowto project, but How-to books are also certainly welcome on Wikibooks, and repeated assurances that they will never be removed in the manner that the video game guides were culled. And Wikibooks *is* a Wikimedia sister project, unlike Wikihowto.  I completely disagree that this non-Wikimedia project should ever be given the same sort of attention or be treated as a sister project unless the WMF has expressed substantial interest in adding that sort of wiki into the list of active WMF projects.  --Robert Horning 17:47, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The reason why we think, Wikihowto is a better place for howtos, is most howtos are a few little steps. Not a Book.  But as of now, wikihowto should not be put in the sister project box[es], since it is not one.  The goal for this year(2008) is to formally propose wikihowto as a sister project. ZyMOS (talk) 04:28, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

External link suggestions
I'd suggest http://www.wonderhowto.com for inclusion in the external links. It was recently launched & reviewed by the New York Times, BoingBoing, Mashable, etc. It's the largest free how-to video guide for searching and browsing how to videos from all across the web (all major how-to sites seem to be in their index). Apparently it's Funded by General Catalyst Partners (though no one seems to know how much). I'd second the instructables.com suggestion too...

Jonathan Hatch here. My website: http://www.getridofthings.com is getting big and somewhat popular. Would you consider linking to it from this article? If so, thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.245.38.196 (talk) 23:57, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Would like to add http://www.websitetuts.com/ for possible inclusion in external links. Please consider it.

I was just browsing the site http://www.instructables.com and thought it might be appropriate/useful in our external links here. Yes/no?

I also refactored the older threads to make this talkpage a little clearer, hope that works for whoever's maintaining here :) --Quiddity 03:24, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

How about adding www.expertvillage.com to the external links, its the worlds largest how-to video site, its sweet! Its gotta be listed! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.6.15 (talk) 00:55, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

 * It looks like someone nuked the whole external links section. As an active wikiHow editor, I'd like to add wikiHow back at least. wikiHow is a wiki with a decently large community and has been featured in NY Times and BBC.  Other good how-to sites include Instructables (another good user generated how-to site), VideoJug (all videos), ViewDo (smaller video site) and even YouTube (has a large how-to section).  There are others that should be included too.  Thoughts? -- LighthouseSpider (talk) 04:41, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

External link deletions and modifications
I have deleted the following external links from the article since they obviously violate the Wikipedia no advertising policy. (When one edits "external links" one finds a message saying not to add any more links, so these links were slyly put under "See also" where they certainly do not belong. And when I try to see the root site http://1howto.com, my Kaspersky security program blocks it.) Redeyed Treefrog 10:56, 23 September 2007 (UTC) How to get rid themHow to Get Rid of —Preceding unsigned comment added by 112.200.95.151 (talk) 05:08, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * A "How To" Portal (A "How To" Portal)
 * A "How To Do Business" Portal
 * A "How To Find An Employment" Portal
 * A "How To Use Well your Computer" Portal
 * A "How To Be Heathy Everytime" Portal
 * A "How To Travel" Portal
 * A "How To Be Happy in your Family" Portal

Now I have modified the entire list of external links, putting it into more rational order, and adding comments to make clear what each link is all about. This may be a departure from standard procedure, but it helps to indicate the pertinence of each link. The smaller how-to wikis have been moved to the end of the list. Redeyed Treefrog 14:01, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It seems all external links were deleted. Their should be _some_ external links. Manybe the top 5 or so...., from indepedent sources(if posible).  Perhaps it can be a template thats locked ZyMOS (talk)

Short
This article is quite short. I'll give it a try to improve it... In case I should discuss it first: here is my attempt. Meursevent 16:28, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Edits about specific online content sites
I have removed a number of edits concerning specific online websites because they were all sourced to their own websites, which don't meet WP:RS guidelines. Are there sources that provide sound reviews of these kinds of sites or ongoing reporting of the history and developments in this area? Flowanda | Talk 02:00, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I suggest the list of websites should be limited to internal links to already existing articles. Flowanda | Talk 02:23, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Questions not answered

 * The article ought to explain the "101" acronym, perhaps by a reference to another lemma. The "101" disambiguation page does not list this use of the number 101. Besides: is it really an "acronym"? Acronyms afaik consist of the initial letters to a set of words.
 * I thought the convention was to write HOWTO in capitals (and contiguous, like the article says)? Rbakels (talk) 05:38, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

 * The number 101 is in reference to typical Course numbers in American universities (or how many used to be numbered) where the introductory courses were usually labeled under the number 101, such as English 101, History 101, and so forth. The "100" indicates a freshman level course (no prerequisites) and the "1" is the first course in that department for that level.  Advanced course numbers might be something like Computer Science 612, where the "600" indicates a graduate level course.  Several "how-to" books have used the convention indicating that you don't need advanced knowledge to understand the content of the book, such as "Gardening 101" or "Plumbing 101".

 * As far as the spelling convention for the words "How to", I don't think there is any consistent standardization other than how one publisher to the next may care to deal with it. I have seen every possible combination including everything in lower case, with and without a hyphen or a space.  Much of what appears in this article I think is more original research, unless there can be some more verifiable external source to cite for this information that isn't derived from this article.  --Robert Horning (talk) 03:03, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

 * I just explained the "101" terminology in text in the article.

 * Also, this seems extremely overweighted with Linux - one paragraph mentions a single book, two paragraphs both bring up Linux. Where is the huge meaningful section on how-to books and pamphlets and newspaper columns, etc. on this topic?  This skips straight from the 16th century to Web 2.0 with barely a dip of the oar in between! Huw Powell (talk) 19:50, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Clean up and broadening
I engaged in a bit of both, attempting to bring the content of the article closer to the topic at hand, without throwing out any of the 'net and Linux related material. I even resisted the urge to refer to How to Steal a Million! Huw Powell (talk) 02:37, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

How To Meaning
1.As of 2009 A Google search for "How To" results in a comprehensive list of HowTo sites. It seems this has changed throughout the years. In the 1990's and early years of 2000, it was common for search engines to ignore these words, and even to notify the user that these words are too common for giving a comprehensive result. Currently, the Google features web page says: Google ignores common words and characters such as where, the, how, and other digits and letters that slow down your search without improving the results. If a common word is essential to getting the results you want, you can make sure we pay attention to it by putting a "+" sign in front of it." 2.^ . A search on Google for "howto faq" or for "faq howto" results in FAQs with HowToDo instructions in them, but never to a single HowTo page. This is probably due to the fact that FAQ pages are usually broader in scope, and therefore more commonly used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.195.69.24 (talk) 23:11, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Does anyone else die a little bit when they see 'how to (something)?' It's that ? at the end that gets my goat. Grr 89.100.48.115 (talk) 15:37, 28 November 2012 (UTC)

How To Do Any And Everything
These things are GREAT! I totally agree. Everyone should know how to do these things and so much more. Marc is so right. The list could grow because there are so many basic life skills to learn. There should be a class for this in our public schools. From first grade all the way through to graduation where our kids are taught age appropriate life skills so when they go into the world they are prepared. I would expand on number 8 though. Women sometimes can’t win or avoid a fight, especially if they are being attacked so learning how to purchase and use some sort of self defense product would be helpful. A lot of women don’t even know products like this are available to the average citizen. Good article. I especially appreciate the way you not only gave us the life skill but links to where it is taught. Great job!

http://how2todo.blogspot.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.195.69.24 (talk) 21:44, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Dummies and 101 books listed as examples of How-to's
I noticed that the article lists Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People as a good example of How-to writing, which of course it is. However, the "For Dummies" and "101" series books were also cited as examples of the How-to genre, but many of the Dummies and 101 books do not instruct a person on how to do anything, they are merely "academic", giving an introductory survey or overview of a topic, such as philosophy or history. It doesn't seem to me that those would be examples of how-tos. Maybe it should be rewritten to say that MANY of the "For Dummies" and "101" series books are How-tos, rather than implying that, as a rule, For Dummies and 101 books are how-tos. I went ahead and made the change, but please feel free to change it back/comment if I was in error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.71.53.140 (talk) 17:59, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Merge
Should HOWTO article be merged into this article?
 * Support. That article is short, and would fit easily into this one.Anythingyouwant (talk) 07:45, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:How-to


text:
Barbara Turner (screenwriter)

Gloria Rose "Barbara" Turner (July 14, 1936 – April 5, 2016) was an American screenwriter and actress. The actress Jennifer Jason Leigh is her daughter.

Early life
Turner was born in Brooklyn, New York to Pearl Pauline (née Zises) and Alexander Turner. Her father was an Austrian Jewish immigrant, and her mother was born in New York, to Austrian Jewish parents.

Turner attended the University of Texas at Austin, where she studied acting. After a year of college, Turner moved back to New York, studying at Erwin Piscator's Dramatic Workshop and then with acting coach Paul Mann, where she met fellow actor Vic Morrow.

Career
Turner moved to Los Angeles after Morrow was cast in the 1955 film Blackboard Jungle. During the 1950s and 1960s, Turner acted in many film and television productions, some of which included Playhouse 90, Mike Hammer, Ben Casey and The Breaking Point. Turner said that she began writing to fund her work as an actor. She and Morrow wrote a TV movie called Willie Loved Everybody; they adapted it into a musical that they tried pitching with Elmer Bernstein, but were not successful in selling the concept. The two separated and divorced in 1964.

During the early 1960s, Turner met and became friends with director Robert Altman, first meeting while working on an episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents and then on his 1964 Kraft Suspense Theatre episode "Once Upon a Savage Night", which was expanded and broadcast as the TV movie Nightmare in Chicago. During filming, Turner met her second husband, producer and director Reza Badiyi, who encouraged her to write an adaptation of a Mira Michal short story from The New Yorker called "At Lake Laguna", which she brought to Altman to possibly make, but that fell apart right before production was scheduled to begin. Altman thought of Turner when he read John Haase's book Me and the Arch Kook Petulia. Turner wrote the original adaptation, which became the film Petulia.

Turner, Vic Morrow and Reza Badiyi were close friends and collaborators with the director Robert Altman, who later directed Leigh in Short Cuts (1993) and Kansas City (1996). Morrow directed his and Turner's 1965 screen adaptation of the Jean Genet play Deathwatch.

In 1973, she wrote the screenplay for the TV movie The Affair, starring Natalie Wood and Robert Wagner. Her teleplay for the TV movie Freedom (1981) was based on her daughter Carrie's experiences in the 1970s as a teen runaway, played by family friend Mare Winningham.

In 1983, Turner co-wrote an adaption of the Stephen King novel Cujo under the name Lauren Currier. Turner wrote an unproduced screenplay about two friends of Dorothy Parker named Gerald and Sara Murphy. This work led to her daughter, Leigh, being cast in the 1994 film Mrs. Parker and the Vicious Circle.

In 1995, she teamed up with daughter Jennifer Jason Leigh to write and produce the screenplay for Georgia, a film depicting the troubled relationship between two singing sisters played by Leigh and Mare Winningham, who both won praise for their performances. The idea reportedly came from Leigh, who was on location shooting the 1991 film Rush, and pitched the idea of two sisters who have varying degrees of skill as singer-songwriters. Turner created the script from that idea. It was financed by the French film production company Ciby 2000, and Turner's daughter, Morrow, served as a technical consultant. Turner spent three years doing research, using the Seattle music scene as a source for the material.

In 2000, Turner's screenplay adaption of the book Jackson Pollock: An American Saga by Steven Naifeh and Gregory White Smith for the Jackson Pollock biopic Pollock, also written by Susan Emswiller, became a successful film. She then collaborated with actress Neve Campbell on a screenplay titled The Company (2003) about the inner workings of the Joffrey Ballet, which was directed by Robert Altman. In an interview with Jan Lisa Huttner, Turner states that "the company is the star of this movie" rather than just Campbell. It is an ensemble piece. In June 2010, it was announced that Turner and Jerry Stahl had written a screenplay for an HBO film about Ernest Hemingway and his relationship with Martha Gellhorn. The film Hemingway & Gellhorn aired in 2012.

At the time of her death, Turner had written the script to the not-yet-released Candice Bergen-produced film titled Knock Wood: Charlie McCarthy Project, a movie based on Bergen's 1983 memoir of the same name. The story, produced by James Francis Trezza and Pam Widener (who Turner worked with on Pollack), unfolds from the perspective of Charlie McCarthy, Edgar Bergen's famous and hugely popular wooden puppet.

Other long-time adaptations that were not produced but had been active in Hollywood were scripts based on Jane Smiley’s book Barn Blind, Michael Frayn's Headlong, and Jill Paton Walsh's Knowledge of Angels. Additional screenplays based on original work included Beautiful View, Once Again for Zelda, and Under Heaven.

Personal life
Turner was married to actor and frequent collaborator Vic Morrow. Their daughter is actress Jennifer Jason Leigh. Turner and Morrow separated when Leigh was two years old.

From 1968 to 1985, Turner was married to Iranian-American television director Reza Badiyi, with whom she had a daughter, the actress Mina Badie, also known as Mina Badiyi Chassler.

Barbara Turner died on April 5, 2016, in Los Angeles, aged 79, from undisclosed causes.

Screenwriter

 * 1966: Deathwatch (adaptation)
 * 1968: Petulia (adaptation)
 * 1973: The Affair (TV movie)
 * 1976: The Dark Side of Innocence (also known as The Hancocks) (NBC pilot)
 * 1976: Widow (TV movie)
 * 1976: The Dark Side of Innocence (TV movie)
 * 1977: The War Between the Tates (TV movie) (adaptation)
 * 1981: Freedom (TV movie)
 * 1983: Sessions (TV movie), also producer
 * 1983: Cujo (credited as Lauren Currier)
 * 1987: Eye on the Sparrow (TV movie), also producer
 * 1992: Somebody's Daughter (TV movie)
 * 1994: Out of Darkness (TV movie)
 * 1995: Georgia, also producer
 * 2000: Pollock (adaptation)
 * 2003: The Company
 * 2012: Hemingway & Gellhorn (HBO) (TV movie), also executive producer
 * Unknown: Knock Wood: Charlie McCarthy Project

Actor

 * 1955: Two-Gun Lady as Jenny Ivers
 * 1956: Medic (TV series) as Joyce in "The Glorious Red Gallagher"
 * 1957: Monster from Green Hell as Lorna Lorentz
 * 1957: M Squad (TV series) as Alice Snyder in "Street of Fear"
 * 1957: Suspicion (TV series) as Emily in "Heartbeat"
 * 1957: Mike Hammer (TV series) as Madeline Pope in "Now Die in It"
 * 1958: Schlitz Playhouse (TV series) as Rose Genilli in "Heroes Never Group Up"
 * 1958: Playhouse 90 (TV series) as Sandra in "Portrait of a Murderer"
 * 1958: The Frank Sinatra Show (TV series) as Shirley in "The Brownstone Incident"
 * 1958: Wink of an Eye as Judy Carlton
 * 1958: Mike Hammer (TV series) as Doris in "My Son and Heir"
 * 1960: The Lineup (TV series) as Eleanor Larsen in "Seven Sinners"
 * 1961: Operation Eichmann as Sara
 * 1961: Outlaws (TV series) as Mary Sawyer in "No Luck on Friday"
 * 1962: Ben Casey (TV series) as Rose Hill in "I Hear America Singing"
 * 1963: Alcoa Premiere (TV series) as Emma in "Lollipop Louie"
 * 1963: Channing (TV series) as Renate Thielman in "A Hall Full of Strangers"
 * 1963: Breaking Point (TV series) as Dorothy Oringer in "A Pelican in the Wilderness"
 * 1964: Kraft Suspense Theatre (TV series) as Bernadette in "Once Upon a Savage Night" aka Nightmare in Chicago
 * 1965: Ben Casey (TV series) as Fanny Birnbaum in "A Nightingale Named Nathan"
 * 1966: The Virginian as Louise Devers in "Harvest of Strangers"
 * 1967: La vuelta del Mexicano
 * 1969: The Desperate Mission (TV movie) as The Farmer's Wife
 * 1970: Soldier Blue as Mrs. Long (uncredited)
 * 1974: En busca de un muro
 * 2007: Margot at the Wedding

Awards

 * 1968: WGA Awards, Best Written American Drama, Petulia to Lawrence Marcus (nominee)
 * 1976: Humanitas Prize, Widow (TV movie) (finalist)
 * 1978: Primetime Emmy Award, Outstanding Writing for a Miniseries, Movie or a Dramatic Special, The War Between the Tates (nominee)
 * 1987: Christopher Award, Eye on the Sparrow
 * 1994: Humanitas Prize, 90 Minute Category, Out of Darkness (nominee)
 * 2012: Primetime Emmy Award, Outstanding Miniseries or Movie, Hemingway & Gellhorn (nominee)
 * 2013: WGA Awards, Long Form – Original, Hemingway & Gellhorn (nominee)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Barbara Turner (screenwriter)


text:
Carel Gabriel Cobet

Carel Gabriel Cobet (28 November 1813 – 26 October 1889) was a Dutch classical scholar.

Biography
He was born in Paris, but educated in the Netherlands, at the Gymnasium Haganum and the University of Leiden. The university conferred on him an honorary degree, and recommended him to the government for a travelling pension. The ostensible purpose of his journey was to collate the texts of Simplicius of Cilicia, which, however, engaged but little of his time. He contrived to study almost every Greek manuscript in the Italian libraries, and returned after five years with an intimate knowledge of palaeography.

In 1846 Cobet was married, and in the same year was appointed to an extraordinary professorship at Leiden. He spent the rest of his life there. An appreciative obituary notice by WG Rutherford appeared in the Classical Review of December 1889.

Works
In 1836 Cobet won a gold medal for an essay entitled Prosopographia Xenophontea, a description of the characters in the Memorabilia, Symposium and Oeconomicus of Xenophon. His Observationes criticae in Platonis comici reliquias (1840) revealed his critical faculty.

Cobet's 1846 inaugural address, De Arte interpretandi Grammatices et Critices Fundamentis innixa, has been called the most perfect piece of Latin prose written in the 19th century. In 1850 Cobet published a major critical edition of the Lives of Eminent Philosophers (Diogenis Laertii De Clarorum philosophorum vitis, dogmatibus et apophthegmatibus libri decem, Pariisis, Didot).

In 1856 he became joint editor of Mnemosyne, a philological review, which he soon raised to a leading position among classical journals. He contributed to it many critical notes and emendations, which were afterwards collected in book form under the titles Novae Lectiones, Variae Lectiones and Miscellanea Critica. In 1875, he took a prominent part in the Leiden Tercentenary, and impressed all his hearers by his facility in Latin improvisation. In 1884, when his health was failing, he retired as emeritus professor.

Cobet's special weapon as a critic was his consummate knowledge of palaeography, but he also had a rare acumen and wide knowledge of classical literature. He may have been over-enthusiastic in his emendation of difficult passages, ignoring the comments of other scholars. He had little sympathy for the German critics, and maintained that the best combination was English good sense with French taste. He always expressed his obligation to the English, saying that his masters were three Richards: Richard Bentley, Richard Porson and Richard Dawes.

title: Carel Gabriel Cobet


text:
Kansai International Airport

Kansai International Airport (関西国際空港), commonly known as Kankū (関空), is the primary international airport in the Greater Osaka Area of Japan and the closest international airport to the cities of Osaka, Kyoto, and Kobe. It is located on an artificial island (Kankūjima (関空島)) in the middle of Osaka Bay off the Honshu shore, 38 km southwest of Ōsaka Station, located within three municipalities, including Izumisano (north), Sennan (south), and Tajiri (central), in Osaka Prefecture. The airport's first airport island covers approximately 510 ha and the second covers approximately 545 ha, for a total of 1055 ha.

Kansai opened on 4 September 1994 to relieve overcrowding at Osaka International Airport, also called Itami Airport, which is closer to Osaka. It consists of two terminals: Terminal 1 and Terminal 2. Terminal 1, designed by Italian architect Renzo Piano, is the longest airport terminal in the world with a length of 1.7 km. The airport serves as an international hub for All Nippon Airways, Japan Airlines, and Nippon Cargo Airlines and as a hub for Peach, the first international low-cost carrier in Japan. It is also the North Pacific hub for the FedEx Express, which obtained its fifth-right under the 1998 U.S. and Japan air agreement and established the Hub in 2014.

In 2019, 31.9 million passengers used the airport, making it the third busiest in Japan. The freight volume was 802,162 tonnes total: 757,414 t international (18th in the world) and 44,748 t domestic. The 4000 x second runway was opened on 2 August 2007. , Kansai Airport has become an Asian hub, with 780 weekly flights to Asia and Australasia (including 119 freight), 59 weekly flights to Europe and the Middle East (5 freight), and 80 weekly flights to North America (42 freight).

In 2020, Kansai was ranked the tenth-best airport in the world by Skytrax and received its awards for Best Airport Staff in Asia, World's Best Airport Staff, and World's Best Airport for Baggage Delivery.

History

In the 1960s, when the Kansai region was rapidly losing trade to Tokyo, planners proposed a new airport near Kobe and Osaka. The city's original international airport, Itami Airport, located in the densely populated suburbs of Itami and Toyonaka, was surrounded by buildings; it could not be expanded, and many of its neighbours had filed complaints because of noise pollution problems.

After the protests surrounding New Tokyo International Airport (now Narita International Airport), which was built with expropriated land in a rural part of Chiba Prefecture, planners decided to build the airport offshore. The new airport was part of a number of new developments to revitalize Osaka, which had been losing economic and cultural ground to Tokyo for most of the century.

Initially, the airport was planned to be built near Kobe, but the city of Kobe refused the plan, so the airport was moved to a more southerly location on Osaka Bay. There it could be open 24 hours per day, unlike its predecessor in the city.

Construction

An artificial island, 4 km long and 2.5 km wide, was proposed. Engineers needed to overcome the extremely high risks of earthquakes and typhoons (with storm surges of up to 3 m). The water depth is 18 m on top of 20 m of soft Holocene clay which holds 70% water. A million sand drains were built into the clay to remove water and solidify the clay.

Construction started in 1987. The sea wall was finished in 1989 (made of rock and 48,000 tetrapods). Three mountains were excavated for 21 e6m3, and 180 e6m3 was used to construct island 1. Over three years, 10,000 workers using 80 ships took 10 million man-hours to complete the 30 or layer of earth over the sea floor and inside the sea wall. In 1990, a 3 km bridge was completed to connect the island to the mainland at Rinku Town, at a cost of $1 billion. Completion of the artificial island increased the area of Osaka Prefecture just enough so that it is no longer the smallest prefecture in Japan (Kagawa Prefecture is now the smallest).

The bidding and construction of the airport was a source of international trade friction during the late 1980s and early 1990s. Prime Minister Yasuhiro Nakasone responded to American concerns, particularly from Senator Frank Murkowski, that bids would be rigged in Japanese companies' favour by providing special offices for prospective international contractors, which ultimately did little to ease the participation of foreign contractors in the bidding process. Later, foreign airlines complained that two-thirds of the departure hall counter space had been allocated to Japanese carriers, disproportionately to the actual carriage of passengers through the airport.

The island had been predicted to sink 5.7 m by the most optimistic estimate as the weight of the material used for construction compressed the seabed silts. However, by 1999, the island had sunk 8.2 m – almost 50% more than predicted. The project became the most expensive civil works project in modern history after twenty years of planning, three years of construction and US$15bn of investment. Much of what was learned went into the successful artificial islands in silt deposits for New Kitakyushu Airport, Kobe Airport, and Chubu Centrair International Airport. The lessons of Kansai Airport were also applied in the construction of Hong Kong International Airport.

In 1991, the terminal construction commenced. To compensate for the sinking of the island, adjustable columns were designed to support the terminal building. These are extended by inserting thick metal plates at their bases. Government officials proposed reducing the length of the terminal to cut costs, but architect Renzo Piano insisted on keeping the terminal at its full planned length. The airport was opened on 4 September 1994.

On 17 January 1995, Japan was struck by the Great Hanshin earthquake, the epicenter of which was about 20 km away from KIX and killed 6,434 people on Japan's main island of Honshū. Its earthquake engineering, particularly the use of sliding joints, allowed the airport to emerge unscathed. Even the glass in the windows remained intact. On 22 September 1998, the airport survived a typhoon with wind speeds over 130 mph.

On 19 April 2001, the airport was one of ten structures given the "Civil Engineering Monument of the Millennium" award by the American Society of Civil Engineers.

, the total cost of Kansai Airport was $20 billion including land reclamation, two runways, terminals, and facilities. Most additional costs were initially due to the island's sinking, caused by the soft soils of Osaka Bay, which was anticipated by designers. The sink rate fell from 50 cm per year during 1994 to 7 cm per year in 2008.

Operation

Opened on 4 September 1994, the airport serves as a hub for several airlines such as All Nippon Airways, Japan Airlines, and Nippon Cargo Airlines. It is the international gateway for Japan's Kansai region, which contains the major cities of Kyoto, Kobe, and Osaka. Other Kansai domestic flights fly from the older but more conveniently located Osaka International Airport in Itami, or from the newer Kobe Airport.

The airport had been deeply in debt, losing $560 million in interest every year. Airlines had been kept away by high landing fees (about $7,500 for a Boeing 747), the second most expensive in the world after Narita's. In the early years of the airport's operation, excessive terminal rent and utility bills for on-site concessions also drove up operating costs: some estimates before opening held that a cup of coffee would have to cost US$10. Osaka business owners pressed the government to take a greater burden of the construction cost to keep the airport attractive to passengers and airlines.

On 17 February 2005, Chubu Centrair International Airport opened in Nagoya, just east of Osaka. The opening of the airport was expected to increase competition between Japan's international airports. Despite this, passenger totals were up 11% in 2005 over 2004, and international passengers increased to 3.06 million in 2006, up 10% over 2005. Adding to the competition were the opening of Kobe Airport, less than 25 km away, in 2006 and the lengthening of the runway at Tokushima Airport in Shikoku in 2007. The main rationale behind the expansions was to compete with Incheon International Airport and Hong Kong International Airport as a gateway to Asia, as Tokyo area airports were severely congested. Kansai saw a 5% year-on-year increase in international traffic in summer 2013, largely supported by low-cost carrier traffic to Taiwan and Southeast Asia overcoming a decrease in traffic to China and South Korea.

The airport authority was allotted four billion yen in government support for fiscal year 2013, and the Ministry of Land, Infrastructure, and Transport and the Ministry of Finance agreed to reduce this amount in stages through fiscal year 2015, although local governments in the Kansai region have pressed for continued subsidies.

Kansai has been marketed as an alternative to Narita Airport for international travelers from the Greater Tokyo Area. By flying to Kansai from Haneda Airport and connecting to international flights there, travelers can save the additional time required to get to Narita: up to one and a half hours for many residents of Kanagawa Prefecture and southern Tokyo.

Expansion

The airport was at its limit during peak times, owing especially to freight flights, so a portion of Phase II expansion—the second runway—was made a priority. Thus, in 2003, believing that the sinking problem was almost over, the airport operators started to construct a 4000 m second runway and terminal.

The second runway opened on 2 August 2007, but with the originally planned terminal portion postponed. This lowered the project cost to JPY¥910 billion (approx. US$8 billion), saving ¥650 billion from the first estimate. The additional runway development, which was opened in time for the IAAF World Athletics Championships in Osaka, has expanded the airport size to 10.5 km2. The second runway is used for landings and when there are incidents prohibiting takeoff from runway A. The new runway allowed the airport to start 24-hour operations in September 2007.

A new terminal building opened in late 2012. There are additional plans for several new aprons, a third runway (06C/24C) with a length of 3500 m, a new cargo terminal and expanding the airport size to 13 km2. However, the Japanese government has currently postponed these plans for economic reasons.

Relationship with Itami Airport
Since July 2008, Osaka Prefecture governor Toru Hashimoto has been a vocal critic of Itami Airport, arguing that the Chuo Shinkansen maglev line will make much of its domestic role irrelevant, and that its domestic functions should be transferred to Kansai Airport in conjunction with upgraded high-speed access to Kansai from central Osaka. In 2009, Hashimoto also publicly proposed moving the functions of Marine Corps Air Station Futenma to Kansai Airport as a possible solution for the political crisis surrounding the base.

In May 2011, the Diet of Japan passed legislation to form a new Kansai International Airport Corporation using the state's existing equity stake in Kansai Airport and its property holdings at Itami Airport. The move was aimed at offsetting Kansai Airport's debt burden.

The merger of the Itami and Kansai airport authorities was completed in July 2012. Shortly following the merger, Kansai Airport announced a 5% reduction in landing fees effective October 2012, with additional reductions during overnight hours when the airport is underutilized, and further discounts planned for the future, including subsidies for new airlines and routes. these moves were intended to bring Kansai's fees closer to the level of Narita International Airport, where landing fees were around 20% lower than Kansai's, and to improve competitiveness with other Asian hubs such as Incheon International Airport in South Korea.

Since its formation, the new operating company has also made efforts toward international expansion, bidding for operating concessions at Yangon International Airport and Hanthawaddy International Airport in Myanmar.

KIAC conducted a public tender to sell the operating rights for Kansai and Itami Airport in May 2015. Orix and Vinci Airports were the sole bidders for the 45-year contract, at a price of around $18 billion. The new operating company, Kansai Airports, took over on 1 April 2016. It is 80% owned by Orix and Vinci, with the remaining 20% owned by Kansai-based enterprises such as Hankyu Hanshin Holdings and Panasonic.

Typhoon Jebi
On 4 September 2018, the airport was hit by Typhoon Jebi. The airport had to pause operations after seawater surges inundated the island; runways were hit, and the water reached up to the engines of some aircraft. The situation was further exacerbated when a large tanker crashed into the bridge that links the airport to the mainland, effectively stranding the people remaining at the airport. All flights at the airport were canceled until 6 September, at which date Prime Minister Shinzō Abe announced the airport would partially resume domestic operations.

Train services to the airport resumed from 18 September 2018 after repair works to the Kansai Airport Line and Nankai Airport Line were completed, and the airport resumed regular operations on 1 October 2018. Repairs to the damaged section of the Sky Gate Bridge R were finally completed on 8 April 2019, restoring traffic both to and from the mainland completely.

Terminal 1
The main KIX passenger terminal, Terminal 1, is a single four-storey building designed by Renzo Piano Building Workshop (Renzo Piano and Noriaki Okabe), and has a gross floor space of 296043 m². , at a total length of 1.7 km from end to end, Terminal 1 is the longest airport terminal in the world. It has a sophisticated people mover system called the Wing Shuttle, which moves passengers from one end of the pier to the other.

The terminal's roof is shaped like an airfoil. This shape is used to promote air circulation through the building: giant air conditioning ducts blow air upwards at one side of the terminal, circulate the air across the curvature of the ceiling, and collect the air through intakes at the other side. Mobiles are suspended in the ticketing hall to take advantage of the flowing air.

The ticketing hall overlooks the international departures concourse, and the two are separated by a glass partition. During Kansai's early days, visitors were known to throw objects over the partition to friends in the corridor below. The partition was eventually modified to halt this practice.

On 23 June 2017, at the terminal's promotion space, a game experience area known as "Nintendo Check In" opened. In this game experience area, guests arriving at Terminal 1 can play Nintendo Switch games free of charge. There is a statue of Mario at the experience area, along with Super Mario Cappy caps from Super Mario Odyssey for passengers to take photos with. There also Amiibo figurines on display there. In the northern and southern arrival routes of Terminal 1, there are decorations of Nintendo characters like Mario, Luigi, Princess Peach, and others welcoming arriving passengers.

Terminal 2
Terminal 2 is a low-cost carrier (LCC) terminal designed to attract more LCCs by providing lower landing fees than Terminal 1. It is exclusively occupied by Peach, Spring Airlines, and Jeju Air. Other LCCs serving Kansai, such as Jetstar Airways, Jetstar Japan, and Cebu Pacific, use the main Terminal 1.

Peach requested that Terminal 2 have a simplified design in order to minimize operating costs. The terminal is a single-story building, thus eliminating the cost of elevators. Passageways to aircraft have no air conditioning. The terminal also has no jet bridges, having one boarding gate for domestic departures and one boarding gate for international departures. In case of rain, passengers are lent umbrellas to use as they walk to the aircraft.

Terminal 2 is not directly connected to Terminal 1 or to Kansai Airport Station. Free shuttle buses run between the two terminals, and between Terminal 2 and the railway and ferry stations. It is also possible to walk between the terminals through the KIX Sora Park, a four-hectare park located adjacent to Terminal 2.

Rail
Kansai International Airport is connected only by the Sky Gate Bridge R, a combined road and railroad bridge, to Rinku Town and the mainland. The lower level of the bridge is used by two railroad operators: JR West and Nankai Electric Railway.

JR West operates the Haruka limited express train services from Kansai Airport Station to Tennōji, Ōsaka, Shin-Ōsaka, and Kyoto Station, with Kansai Airport Rapid services available from Kansai Airport Station to Ōsaka, Kyōbashi and several stations on the way. Connecting train service to Wakayama is available at Hineno Station. Various connections, such as buses, subways, trams, and other railroads, are available at each station.

Nankai operates the rapi:t, a limited express train service to Namba Station on the southern edge of downtown Osaka. Osaka Metro connections are available at Namba and Tengachaya Station.

Rail connections to and from Kansai Airport are expected to further improve access to and from Umeda with the opening of the Naniwasuji Line in 2031.

Bus
Kansai Airport Transportation Enterprise and other bus operators offer scheduled express bus services, called "Airport Limousines", for Kansai International Airport.

Parking
Two six storey parking structures, called P1 and P2, are located above a railroad terminal station, while the other two level parking facilities, called P3 and P4, are situated next to "Aeroplaza", a hotel complex.

The airport is only accessible from the Sky Gate Bridge R, a part of Kansai Airport Expressway. The expressway immediately connects to Hanshin Expressways Route 5, "Wangan Route", and Hanwa Expressway.

Ferry service
In July 2007, high-speed ferry service began. OM Kobe operates "Bay Shuttle" between Kobe Airport and KIX. The journey takes about thirty minutes.

Other facilities

 * Kansai Airport Agency Company Building (航空会社北ビル) – Houses the Kansai Airport Agency Co., Ltd. (株式会社 関西エアポートエージェンシー)
 * Kensetsu-to (建設棟)
 * The head office of the Kansai International Airport Land Development Co., Ltd. / KALD (関西国際空港用地造成株式会社) is on the fourth floor.
 * The Peach Aviation head office is on the fifth floor.
 * Aeroplaza (エアロプラザ) is located on the west side of Kansai Airport Station. It includes a hotel, restaurants, rental car counters, and other businesses
 * Hotel Nikko Kansai Airport (north portion of Kansai Airport)
 * Head office of Peach Aviation was previously located on the third floor (central portion of Kansai Airport)
 * Central power station (KEPCO) energy center, 40 MW
 * JAL Cargo import and export facilities (in southern portion)
 * Japan Coast Guard Kansai airport Coast Guard air base
 * Japan Coast Guard Special Security Team Base
 * Osaka international post office ( carrying about 19,000 tonnes per year of international postal matter)
 * Oil tanker berths (three berths) and Fuel Supply center
 * Airport access bridge ("The Sky Gate Bridge R"), which as of 2013 is the longest truss bridge in the world at 3750 m. The double-decker bridge consists of a lower deck devoted to rail, with the upper for road.

title: Kansai International Airport


text:
Ibid.

Ibid. is an abbreviation for the Latin word ibīdem, meaning "in the same place", commonly used in an endnote, footnote, bibliography citation, or scholarly reference to refer to the source cited in the preceding note or list item. This is similar to Idem, literally meaning "the same", abbreviated id., which is commonly used in legal citation.

Ibid. may also be used in the Chicago (name-date) system for in-text references where there has been a close previous citation from the same source material. The previous reference should be immediately visible, e.g. within the same paragraph or page.

Some academic publishers now prefer that "ibid." not be italicised, as it is a commonly found term. Usage differs from style or citation guides as to whether ibid should be suffixed with a full stop. For example, Oxford Standard for Citation of Legal Authorities omits full stops and does not capitalise, while the Economist Style guide uses a lower case starting letter with ending full stop.

Example

 * [1] E. Vijh, Latin for Dummies (New York: Academic, 1997), 23.
 * [2] Ibid.
 * [3] Ibid., 29.
 * [4] A. Alhazred, The Necronomicon (Petrus de Dacia, 1994).
 * [5] Ibid. 1, 34.

Reference 2 is the same as reference 1: E. Vijh, Latin for Dummies on page 23, whereas reference 3 refers to the same work but at a different location, namely page 29. Intervening entries require a reference to the original citation in the form Ibid. , as in reference 5.

Cultural references

 * "Ibid", a humorous short story by H. P. Lovecraft, purports to be a brief biography of the (fictional) Roman scholar Ibidus.
 * Ibid. is used in the 1960s play Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? by Edward Albee. Albee uses an unabbreviated ibid (i.e. ibīdem) in his stage directions to tell an actor to use the same tone as the previous line.
 * In the Discworld novels Pyramids and Small Gods by Terry Pratchett, an Ephebian philosopher is called Ibid, mentioned in the latter as the author of Discourses.
 * In the 1997 movie Good Will Hunting, the main character, Will Hunting, when arguing for himself in court against the dismissive rebuttals of the prosecuting attorney, misquotes (and mispronounces) a passage from an obscure book, then follows up by stating "Ibid, your Honor," although there was no second citation.

title: Ibid.


text:
Talk:Spokane Valley, Washington

March 2003
Yes, I know I described a future event in past tense...just wait a month, and I'll be correct!

Brian Sayrs 18:00 Mar 2, 2003 (UTC)

I'm new
New Wikipedian here, proud resident of Spokane Valley... can anyone suggest what might be worthwhile to add to this article? --Davidf1966 15:33, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

I recall the irrigation ditches as a kid, they used to run everywhere. We caught a lot of turtles in the one next to my house. There was a large apple packing house in the field behind my house that was torn down in the late 50's. I also remember the canvas irrigation tubes they used to lay down during the summer. They ran down the edges of the streets, blocking off some residential streets so you had to drive around to arterials where they ran through culverts to let traffic pass. One of the canvas arteries ran right by my grandmother's house, and we used to go out and lay on them when it was hot. I wonder if such systems were used elsewhere? My grandmother also had an early map of the valley, now lost, that showed the big (seasonal) shallow lake that used to exist. You can see on flood plain maps where it must have been.

[Good heavens, you must have lived next door! I was just thinking about how we would catch turtles in the ditches on Sharp, and how we used to lay on the wet canvas tubes in the summer on Walnut road. . . which ran in front of my grandmother's house! And I wrote the section of the article about the shallow lake based on a map that hung in my grandmother's garage!! Although I also remember some of the old wooden structures that diverted the water inflow to allow the lake to be drained. And finally, right in back of my house on Oberlin road was a large apple packing house that was torn down when I was a kid. Next you'll tell me your mom was named Lucille, and your first grade teacher at St. John Vianney was sister Bebeanna. . . ]

It would be great to add demographic information as well as add area and population info to the infobox, as most cities' articles have this. It will be difficult, though, since Spokane Valley was incorporated so recently and there's probably no 2000 Census data.Tfosorcim (talk) 06:59, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

LOTS of work needed
This article doesn't even begin to meet encyclopedic standards. It needs citations for its information (there is only ONE in the entire article), most of the history in the article is redundant with that of the city of Spokane (come on, people, this city is less than a decade old), and opinions need to be left out, such as your "interesting fact" or your unsubstantiated comparison to Sandy Springs. There is a lot of cleaning up to be done here. DuckFerret —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.103.131.9 (talk) 19:58, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

What do you call them?
What do you call someone from the city of Spokane Valley? --165.236.228.81 18:24, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

I generally hear them called "valley residents." There has never been a single community in the valley prior to incorporation. It is generally a collection of several smaller communities which have lost much of their separate identities (with exceptions, such as Ponderosa and Greenacres). This is probably why we don't have a single adjective for them. Brian Sayrs 21:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Awkward Naming Convention?
I removed this: "(with its somewhat awkward naming convention)" It is named according to state law in Washington. All cities are named "City of (named)." What's odd is that the state department of transportation put "Entering City of Spokane Valley" at the borders rather than "Entering Spokane Valley" which is what they normally do, and more appropriate. Nevertheless, the naming convention is not unusual. Brian Sayrs 21:48, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Geographic, demographic, and other data
I added a reference for the 2010 population total and put area data that I found from the 2010 Census gazetteer files in the infobox, if that's okay with everyone. I noticed most city articles have geography and demographics sections with standardized info from the 2000 Census, but obviously not Spokane Valley because it didn't exist until 2003. I'm thinking that as the 2010 Census data comes out, there will be an organized effort to replace old data in all U.S. city articles, and hopefully we can get some information for Spokane Valley in the process.

In the meantime, feel free to add/change whatever you want, and please do try to find references for the long history section. 71.113.35.235 (talk) 08:16, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Thousands of years?
Really? Says that the early residents had lived in the valley for "thousands of years," and then proceeds to talk about first contact with fur traders less than 250 years ago. "Thousands" is plural, suggesting that these tribes lived in the area since or before the time of Christ. I'm skeptical. Does anybody have a reference to corroborate this? (Also, the article lacks references, generally.) Hexedar (talk) 21:26, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Yep thousands. The first humans to live in the Spokane Valley (ie the Valley formed by the Spokane River) were hunter-gatherers that lived off plentiful fish and game; early human remains have been dated to 8,000 to 13,000 years ago. --Katrazyna (talk) 09:21, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Indian Rebellion of 1857?
The only Indian Rebellion of 1857 is the one that happened in the Indian SubContinent. There was a war called the Coeur d’Alene War which happened in 1858 in which the Spokane people fought in. LegioV (talk) 01:24, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Agreed, and fixed, "the Spokanes protested the loss of their lands by joining in the Coeur d'Alene War of 1858." with references.--Katrazyna (talk) 09:23, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Scope of History
Originally the article included information about the native inhabitants of the Valley. After protest that this was too broad, the article was edited to limit the history of the native population to events that specifically took place in the exact location of the future City of Spokane Valley. Magnolia677 edited to eliminate mention of the pre-European occupants of the area. Should this article start at the "beginning"? The European conquest? 1900 when it actually had a notable population? the 1990s when the debate over a new city in the valley began? 2002 when the successful vote occurred? 2003 when this city actually existed? Should a city that is only 17 years old have a history section? --Katrazyna (talk) 00:32, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * First off, congrats that you and have not engaged in edit warring and instead taken the issue here to the talk page. As an hitherto uninvolved person, I'd like to give my opinion:

 * a) The history section is far too long atm, even at the current revision without the parts added by . Imo it needs to either be trimmed down by quite a bit, or expanded into its own article, leaving only a moderately long description on the main article here.

 * b) Large parts of the history section are not supported via inline citations. This applies especially to sections like this:
 * [...] caused it to be called "Spokane Valley, the Valley Bountiful".
 * Such a quotation has to be verified! If any of you two have access to sources that confirm this and the other paragraphs' content, I think the article could benefit greatly.

 * I agree! Reason I started editing this page was to add sources. But when I found them, they disagreed with the article, so then I edited article, and here we are.--Katrazyna (talk) 21:29, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * "Spokane Valley, the Valley Bountiful": best answer so far - It was ad speak, in a 1912 pamphlet by "Spokane Advertising Club" (which became Spokane Chamber of Commerce) when they invented, "Miss Spokane", to attract businesses/new residence/tourists. It continues to be used or rather quoted by the current visitspokane.com, and various real estate and recreational entities. Exact quote from current site, "Our community was once known as "Spokane Valley, the Valley Bountiful," because of the beauty of the surrounding area, fertile farmlands, business opportunities, outdoor sports and activities and local recreational areas." But it appears that it "was once known as..." by they themselves or rather their predecessors. If the quote predates Spokane Valley (regional) propaganda, I can't find it. imo the quote is superfluous.--Katrazyna (talk) 21:29, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

 * c) Related to a), the history section occasionally contains indiscriminate descriptions of detail, for example here:
 * The truck farms were successful in raising strawberries, raspberries, tomatoes, beans, peas, watermelons, asparagus, squash, cucumbers and thousands of acres of Heart of Gold cantaloupes. Dairy, poultry and fur farms [...]
 * There is no need to list every single crop that was farmed - it does give no special information about the place, and I can personally vouch that a lot of farmers planted (and still plant) these crops elsewhere as well. Information such as this might fit into a separate "agriculture" section that deals with locally important crops, but it does not add anything important to the history (unless there are sources that stress e.g. the importance of Heart of Gold cantaloupes, if it had first been grown there, had been eaten by a president or whatever <- these are all just made-up examples, I know of no source that states this).

 * d) Quite naturally, there is a bit of overlap between the populated place and the valley. I understand that these are sometimes hard to separate, especially in historical times before the incorporation. This issue seems to be the main point of conflict, if I understand correctly.
 * And I feel that both of you are partly right here:
 * , I do think your edit regarding prehistoric inhabitants is valuable information - though I should add that the page seems to be off, as I can't find the claim on page 75 when looking at the source in google books.
 * , I do agree that the additional information does inflate the article's history section beyond scope - again, imo it was already far too long before.

 * So, what to do then?
 * I believe the solution might be one of two things:
 * 1) Make a spin-off article called "History of Spokane Valley, Washington", make it an article with a slightly broader scope that includes information from prehistory and the surrounding valley. Keep only a condensed fraction of the new article in the history section of the city, and link to the history article.
 * 2) Condense and provide with inline citations the existing history section, and put any information that goes outside the scope of the immediate city in the article about the valley: Spokane Valley. That one is currently just a stub, and could certainly use some expansion.

 * Well, I hope I could add something to the discussion, and not have upset anyone. Of course all of this is only my opinion, so feel free to disagree and discuss this further.
 * --LordPeterII (talk) 16:23, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Townships
The early government of this area centered around townships. When I found the article, it had a dozen inaccuracies about these early governmental bodies. After editing the first paragraph on that topic to clarify the townships purpose and power my edits were reverted because "out-of-scope". I'm hoping for permission to remove the inaccurate statements about townships and continue to edit the surrounding paragraphs to come into agreement with authoritative references on the subject of the townships.

For example: "A few Spokane Valley townships were developed for residential... Trent ... Millwood... Dishman... All other Valley townships were developed as irrigation districts" 1) Trent, Millwood, and Dishman were not townships. They were towns. 2) Irrigation districts started before the townships. Some have overlapping names and areas, but the townships, according to the state legislature and the county decisions on them were formed as rural governing bodies, and functioned as such until the state legislature took away their taxing ability, and they died from lack of cash to fulfill their purpose.

The end of same paragraph includes: "Pasadena Park is a populated place located in Spokane County at latitude 47.697 and longitude -117.283, North of Millwood across the Spokane River that existed at least as early as 1916." Pasadena Park is not in the City of Spokane Valley. Perhaps this bit of trivia belongs with the region "Spokane Valley" or in the county "Spokane", or no where?

The only reference for this paragraph currently listed is "Home Town Locator" (which is questionably authoritative) and it is for Pasadena Park, which as stated above is the part of the paragraph not in City of Spokane Valley.--Katrazyna (talk) 00:31, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Comments please? Can we fix the section about townships? And add references? (I have five currently on my clipboard.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Katrazyna (talk • contribs) 00:30, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I deleted large sections of history that were not specific to this city. A general history of the surrounding area is out of scope and would be best placed on the county article. Magnolia677 (talk) 08:29, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Thank you . I agree that this history is too long and partly off-topic. I disagree with which parts you said were out-of-scope.--Katrazyna (talk) 00:51, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * The sections you deleted as out-of-scope were about 1) the prehistoric inhabitants which archeological digs have pinned on this location, as well as the surrounding region, but here in this spot, none the less. 2) The mention of the Spokanes and Coeur d'Alenes, which did, do, and there is evidence have since before records, lived in this exact spot, as well as the larger area. But here, none the less.  3) The actions of Col. Wright (ie the two Battles which occurred not in a stationary location but from here to far south of here; and the death of 800 horses which because of the nature of a herd that size occurred from right here to the now Idaho boarder, plus the surrounding negotiations and treaty which occurred in the cabin of A. Plante, which as I edited to explain, is absolutely in this city) did occur right here within the now city limits of CoSV but does spill over into the surrounding regions. 4) Mention of A. Plante, which as I edited to explain, is absolutely here in the city, although the park/recreational area north of his house has been carved out of the city because of contracts and ownership, reference city of Spokane and County of Spokane, etc.  But his cabin, or rather its location, is in the city. 4) The accurate explanation of the townships, which I was in the process of fixing when the reverts occurred. The townships (at least the ones specific to CoSV) are absolutely pertinent to CoSV history because the existence and timing of the CoSV are a direct result of the Twps that make it up.[Yes I am aware this is *too much detail*. But the brief descriptions without caveats is what started this discussion]
 * The sections you did not delete, which imo need review include, 1) the 8 (now 6) mentions of Millwood. The CoSV does surround Millwood on 3 sides, and Millwood is one of the *incorporated* sections not included in the "new valley city proposal". It probably needs mentioning once. But Millwood wasn't a township (reference township paragraphs which need editing). I have heard of rivalries/hard feelings amongst some in both communities, but they really aren't the same thing and Millwood's history really isn't CoSV's history. They are neighbors, that's it. 2) You deleted A. Plante (in the city) but not Kendall (not in the city, rather on the Idaho boarder as stated in the article). Kendall may or may not be in scope, but he is less in scope than Plante who was deleted as out-of-scope. 3)Didn't delete the paragraph after Kendall that repeats reference to Plante and Kendall as compared to City of Spokane founder, which imo is unnecessary. This isn't a contest between Spokane and Spokane Valley (again I am aware of hard feelings between individual residence of these two cities but that is also not in the scope of the article. They are neighbors, that's it). 3)You also left the long explanations of the Irrigation (entire valley) and the railroads (entire valley especially Spokane). *Because of their effects* on CoSV history, they probably need mention but the detail, especially of areas not CoSV, probably is superfluous. 4) You deleted new paragraph on townships which replaced the previous inaccurate and unreferenced paragraph on same subject, but left the following paragraph intact, which lists the "townships" (only five entities in that list are townships, 3 of which are part of CoSV) most of which aren't townships, and many of them aren't in CoSV.  This paragraph is definitely about the region not the city.[Aside: this paragraph is a summary that verges on a direct quote, or rather misquote, that I am hoping for permission to fix, but I'm not spending the time to fix if its just going to be deleted when I finish. If nothing else, it needs the reference, quote marks and the missing words replaced, ie "townships" was in direct quote "small townships, mercantile hubs, irrigation districts, and railway stops." Imo this paragraph should be rewritten to be more concise, on-topic, referenced, and taken from multiple sources.] 5) The paragraph on Sandy Springs remains. I agree with the topic above on this talk page. It's at least superfluous.
 * There are probably more paragraphs that need eliminating or condensing. As in above discussion I agree that the history section is way toooooo long, partly because it is part CoSV and part Region. Needs overhauled.  Can we do that?--Katrazyna (talk) 20:20, 15 August 2020 (UTC)

Proposed Solution
,, others concerned:

Issues: Possible Solution:
 * History too long
 * History of CoSV is a subset of the region Spokane Valley, this article covers region
 * Few inline Refs
 * Neutrality is questionable: tourism propaganda, and rivalries with neighboring cities
 * Unnecessary detail
 * 1) Move the existing (or rather the pre-editing) history to the Spokane Valley regional page. Fix and edit there for inline citation, accuracy, and concise.
 * 2) Add link in CoSV to the history of the region
 * 3) Add a very brief paragraph or three summary of CoSV's part in that history, with citations.
 * 4) Add a few brief paragraphs about history that is CoSV but *not* regional (hence not on the regional page), with citation.
 * 5) Move all that info about the vote and merger into the new much shorter history section.
 * 6) Optional: Make a separate new section where you could list the subdivisions that came together to form CoSV, with a very brief (sentence or two) history for each that is unique to the parts and pieces.
 * I cannot guarantee submission before Tuesday, but I will try to write a sample "very brief paragraph or three summary", so we can preview & comment on what should/shouldn't be in such a summary.--Katrazyna (talk) 01:54, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Yup, that sounds like a possible solution.
 * There's no need to rush this (there are no deadlines on Wikipedia, thankfully!), just ping when you are finished. I will then try to take a look at the new setup and comment on it. Just bear in mind that I can only rate the readability and perceived balance of the article(s) to an outsider; you and Magnolia677 will have to find consensus on included content, as I don't know anything about the area. But I guess the "article scope" issue would be resolved with the approach you outlined. --LordPeterII (talk) 07:37, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. Thanks to all! Magnolia677 (talk) 09:57, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Do Not Panic. I moved the History Article to its new home on the regional page. So far, no complaints. I am removing the history from this page. I think its existence; with few citations, neutrality issues, and length; are bringing less-interested but active editors out of the woodwork. I think the editing on the other sections will be more constructive with this behemouth out of the way.--Katrazyna (talk) 03:21, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

Photos and Additions
and anyone interested: While collecting refs and verifying info, I came across pertinent photos which I added. I also found more info on community activities (events, arts, etc.) which I tentatively added. I added the art council. Haven't added anything else, but there appears to be community theaters (which are c19 closed at the moment), farmers market, etc. Should we/Can we add more of this stuff? Other city articles include them, and they would be more informative about the current City than all that history stuff. Just trying to make the article better. Please comment.--Katrazyna (talk) 02:05, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi, looking good so far! SounderBruce also seems to have shortened some needlessly detailed paragraphs, and your new additions are definitely well done . I feel while the extended history (which now is located at the page about the valley) will still need some cleanup, this page here about the city is in quite good shape now; and thus I believe the "multiple issues" warning about neutrality and references can be removed. --LordPeterII (talk) 20:34, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Updated city hall photo
I've uploaded a new city hall photo, as well as a photo of the fire station nearby (I also found the SVFD logo as a vector and uploaded that). Currently not adding the Engine 1 fire station image, but was thinking an article for SVFD might make sense at some point, and that image may assist with fleshing that out. Ideas, comments, criticisms welcome! —Locke Cole • t • c 01:37, 22 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Spokane Valley, Washington


text:
Talk:Ibid.

Styles
N.B.: MLA style isn't the same as the Modern Language Association, and APA style isn't the same as the American Psychological Association. Do we mean to link to "MLA style" and "APA style" here? - Dreamword 18:12 Mar 2, 2003 (UTC)

The link to the MLA style is also a bit misleading, because Ibid isn't actually used in the current MLA style ("new MLA"). MLA style now uses in-text parenthetical citations and a "Works Cited" section, while Ibid is something found in styles that use footnotes or endnotes. --24.167.65.213 23:58, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

Latin for Dummies
Just so people know, Latin for dummies is a real book. Don't know if that makes the example more or less appropriate. HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 03:47, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Lovecraft
"Ibid" is a short story from H.P. Lovecraft, describing the (fictional) life of scholar Ibid and his masterwork, Op.Cit.

Perhaps a subtle nod to this is given when one of the example references cites the Necronomicon. 66.205.170.192 (talk) 00:26, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

 * I very much enjoyed seeing Azif listed as the author Jay Dubya (talk) 08:43, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Ditto
I think this is shortchanging the concept of "ditto." People use ditto in conversation. Additionally, most ditto marks are straight up and down, not a quote mark. If ditto marks is going to point here, the topic should have more

Yes, why does "ditto mark" redirect here anyway? 84.9.82.184 08:53, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Capitalization?
Should "Ibid" always be capitalized? It is always capitalized within the article (as is the abbreviation Id.), but not in the header that says "please do not use 'ibid'" in Wikipedia articles. --Trevor Burnham 06:58, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's that the term always comes at the beginning of a sentence (or capitalized fragment) in formal use, so you rarely see it in lowercase. The phrase "do not use 'ibid'" is one of those rare situations.  66.251.24.220 23:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Many style guides require 'ibid.' to always be lower case, even if at the beginning of (or the entirety) of a sentence (eg, OSCOLA, ASM), so seeing it lower case is not at all rare.Digitig (talk) 12:07, 19 August 2016 (UTC)
 * You're right: see (lower case). --79.16.90.85 (talk) 12:24, 19 August 2016 (UTC)

Ibid. vs. Id.
Has anyone seen these two used academically as they are used in the example? I understand that that is how legal citations work, but the only cases in which I've seen "id" used in an academic footnote put it in place of an author's name. 66.251.24.220 23:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

When writing a thesis, I was told to use ONLY Ibid. (never have I seen Id. in my peers'); most, if not all, of them have been at the bottom of a page (as a footnote). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.168.123.141 (talk) 12:33, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

I have not once seen 'id' used, as in the example given in the article. In academic papers using a style that includes it, 'Ibid' is simply repeated with, if necessary, a different page/line number, not contracted to 'id. This seems to make the article somewhat misleading as to the correct format for footnoting, and is confirmed by one of the links in the article itself here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.208.117.40 (talk) 20:50, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

As an academic, I disagree with the following:

It is no longer considered scholarly practice to use Ibid.

The above is a blanket statement. There is no hard and fast agreement across academia that "Ibid" is not appropriate. I have spoken to both the MLA and APA and neither one has any reservations regarding the use of Ibid. Diana Hacker does not even mention "Ibid" in the current manual. I would rather my students use "Ibid" through their paper to show they are using the exact same source and page than citing the exact same citation over and over again "ad nauseum." I believe as well that university professors who claim that the use of "Ibid" is no longer appropriate are voicing their personal opinion regarding the matter based on general agreement that students should be sparing of their use of Latin abbreviations in formal papers (Hacker 317). I have spoken of the matter with colleagues and there is general disagreement, as a matter of fact. Some like the use of "Ibid.," and claim papers look more "polished" with it. Some do not like the use of "Ibid." It is good that Wikipedia has added a "citation needed" marker. Yodedp27 (talk) 16:19, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I've probably never been more excited about citation usage ever. (That's at least a little true . . .) I just stumbled across a paragraph with two ibid. cites. It seems, from this paragraph, anyway, that, in legal usage, ibid. follows id. when id. follows a quotation if ibid. does not, itself, follow a quotation. Yeah, I wish I had time to edit that more, too. But see for yourself. This is from an opinion written by J. O'Connor: Judge Edmondson, although stating that he believed “good reason exists to doubt that the ADEA was (or could have been    properly) enacted pursuant to the Fourteenth Amendment,” id., at 1430, rested his opinion on the ADEA's lack of unmistakably clear language evidencing Congress' intent to abrogate the States' sovereign immunity. Ibid. He noted that the ADEA lacks any reference to the Eleventh Amendment or to the States' sovereign immunity and does not contain, in one place, a plain statement that States can be sued by individuals in federal court. Id., at 1430-1431. Judge Cox concurred in Judge Edmondson's ultimate conclusion that the States are immune from ADEA suits brought by individuals in federal court. Id., at 1444. Judge Cox, however, chose not to address “the thorny issue of Congress's intent,” id., at 1445, but instead found that Congress lacks the power under § 5 of the Fourteenth Amendment to abrogate the States' Eleventh Amendment immunity under the ADEA. Ibid. *72 He concluded that “the ADEA confers rights far more extensive than those the Fourteenth Amendment provides,” id., at 1446, and that “Congress did not enact the ADEA as a proportional response to any widespread violation of the elderly's constitutional rights.” Id., at 1447. Chief Judge Hatchett dissented from both grounds. Id., at 1434. That case is Kimel v. Florida Bd. of Regents 528 U.S. 62, 120 S.Ct. 631 (U.S.Fla.,2000). Sorry I don't have time to format the cite. I can find NO support for this usage, but it makes sense, I think, to use ibid. to broaden the reference beyond a quotation.

I'll bet if someone, and I might just do it, searched Westlaw for id. w/20 ibid., we could see how it's being used. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.81.116.76 (talk) 22:02, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Indeed this is quite exciting. Good show, what? Jay Dubya (talk) 08:57, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

'''The above information is quite wrong. Ibid., in legal writing, and elsewhere, is used to show that a citation is being taken from the exact same page or paragraph (whichever unit is being cited) as is pinpointed in the source directly preceding it. So if the preceding footnote was "Johnson, p. 47" then using ibid. in the next footnote would indicate not only that the book being cited is Johnson's book, but ALSO that the page number being cited is 47. On the other hand, Id. is used to denote that the preceding source is being used, but a different page or paragraph within the source is being cited. Hence, Ibid. always stands alone in a citation and Id. always is followed by a page number or paragraph number. It is never correct (although Chicago Style Guide stupidly says otherwise) to have "ibid., 47" and it is never correct to just have id.''' — Preceding unsigned comment added by 40.133.175.219 (talk) 15:29, 13 June 2017 (UTC)

Modern day usage
I added a statement saying that it is no longer considered proper scholarly practice to use ibid. Obviously, I should cite this claim per wikipedia standards, however I cannot find a good source- I learned it from a number of my University history professors who have told me as much. Please weigh in on appropriateness of contribution to article, I will bow to the general will. Rudy Breteler (talk) 05:37, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

My history profs support and encourage the use of Ibid. Glandrid (talk) 12:16, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Ditto. segmarian 12:03, 7 Feb 2011 (GMT)

Removed
I have removed the part about ibid no longer being scholarly practice. From reading the discussion and my own experience there are a lot of academics who prefer the use of ibid and its use down to personal preference. With no citation except somebodies lecturers I thought it would be better to remove this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.82.121.38 (talk) 23:53, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Ditto mark - further details
Why does ditto mark redirect here? The article states that it is "similar to ditto marks". The concept of using Ditto Marks should either be fully elobarated in this article or split into a separate article completely. Gwolfe28 (talk) 19:37, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

What about another ibidem?
If there was another ibidem with the same page as the last ibidem in the example, would it need the reference of the page?

512upload (talk) 14:54, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Great Reference
By the by, this is just a note, the H.P. Lovecraft reference is beautiful.Sir Ian (talk) 23:40, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

Example in image doesn't have full stop (period)
I noticed a note saying since "Ibid." is an abbreviation it should always have a full stop (period), yet the example in the image omits them in all instances. Should the image be replaced or the note be removed/further explained? Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.60.152.6 (talk) 21:59, 13 December 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ibid.


text:
Talk:City government in Washington (state)

Untitled
I will be back to finish this up! Brian Sayrs 18:22 Mar 2, 2003 (UTC)

Meanwhile, I moved this article into a more precise title. - knoodelhed 06:40, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of mountain passes in Washington (state) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:34, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of mountain passes in Washington (state) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 02:04, 4 July 2023 (UTC)


text:
Dogman (album)

Dogman is the fifth studio album by American rock band King's X, released in 1994. It marks the band's second album under Atlantic and their first to not be produced by Sam Taylor; instead, the album was produced by Brendan O'Brien (who had recently worked with Pearl Jam, Stone Temple Pilots and The Black Crowes). Dogman signaled a heavier direction for King's X and, with strong approval from both critics and fans, is often considered one of their best works.

Background and recording
According to frontman Doug Pinnick, while longtime King's X producer Sam Taylor had a big influence on the band's sound, he never captured the heaviness of their live performance in the studio. Taylor ended production duties with King's X after four albums. When the high-profile Brendan O'Brien approached King's X about creating an album together, the band enthusiastically accepted. In the end the band actually favored some of the demos over the final songs, and these would later be released as Dogman Demos in 2005. Nevertheless, working with O'Brien was a satisfying experience for King's X. In 1999, Pinnick described "Black the Sky" as his new "standard to mix to" due to its "big and fat" sound that simulated the band's live performance.

Music and lyrics
Although their previous self-titled effort featured dark themes and aggressive musicianship, Dogman was considerably heavier than previous albums and marked a transition in the band's sound. In 1999, Doug Pinnick reflected, "For me personally, the Dogman record is what King's X really sounds like. The self-titled record was a step and an eye-opener and after that we could just make our music."

Along with the heavier sound - and in contrast to the occasionally uplifting Christian themes of earlier King's X albums - Pinnick's lyrics expressed his building frustration with religion. "[A]ll of the records", he stated in 2005, "are always me questioning 'Is this really it?' because I grew up in a religious family all my life and I have always been going: something ain't right here. So I have always sung about what I thought wasn't right - my confusion and my disillusion with it. And then finally when Dogman came out I just spewed it all out. I was pissed at that point. Everybody was like: 'he's not Christian anymore.' Everybody got freaked out."

Touring and promotion
Dogman was promoted with performances including Woodstock '94 and opening slots for Pearl Jam, Mötley Crüe, the Scorpions and Type O Negative.

The album artwork by Leon Alvarado was released in four color variations: red, yellow, green, and blue.

The album's title track was its first single and music video. According to Doug Pinnick, "Dogman" received strong radio rotation in New York but the lack of a hit single hampered the album's commercial success. To date, "Dogman" remains King's X's last charting single, peaking at number 20 on the Mainstream Rock chart. The album produced three more singles: "Fool You", "Pillow" and the radio-only "Pretend", but none charted.

A concert in Dallas, Texas was filmed during the Dogman tour and released as a two-disc CD entitled Live & Live Some More via Molken Music in 2007.

Critical reception
Dogman was critically well-received upon its release. Chuck Eddy of Entertainment Weekly described the heavier sound as "less muddled than [King's X's previous] attempts at Beatles-derived psychedelic pop", and in a 4/5 star review, AllMusic's Alex Henderson praised the varied musical styles despite the album's heaviness, noting that King's X "addresses spiritual concerns without trying to force its beliefs on anyone."

Chart performance
Singles - Billboard (North America)

Personnel

 * King's X
 * Doug Pinnick – lead vocals, bass
 * Ty Tabor – guitar, backing vocals
 * Jerry Gaskill – drums, backing vocals

 * Production
 * Recorded by Nick DiDia
 * Mixed by Brendan O'Brien except "Manic Depression" mixed by Nick DiDia.
 * Keyboards and percussion: Brendan O'Brien
 * Recorded at Southern Tracks, Atlanta, GA.
 * Mastered by Bob Ludwig at Gateway Studios, Portland ME
 * Art Direction: Leon Alvarado
 * Design: Leon Alvarado, Randy Rogers
 * Photography: Catherine Wessel

title: Dogman (album)