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Maya Deren

Maya Deren (born Eleonora Derenkovskaya, Елеоно́ра Деренко́вська; May 12 1917 – October 13, 1961) was a Ukrainian-born (then part of the Russian Empire, now independent Ukraine) American experimental filmmaker and important part of the avant-garde in the 1940s and 1950s. Deren was also a choreographer, dancer, film theorist, poet, lecturer, writer, and photographer.

The function of film, Deren believed, was to create an experience. She combined her expertise in dance and choreography, ethnography, the African spirit religion of Haitian Vodou, symbolist poetry and gestalt psychology (as a student of Kurt Koffka) in a series of perceptual, black-and-white short films. Using editing, multiple exposures, jump-cutting, superimposition, slow-motion, and other camera techniques to her advantage, Deren abandoned established notions of physical space and time, innovating through carefully planned films with specific conceptual aims.

Meshes of the Afternoon (1943), her collaboration with her husband at the time, Alexander Hammid, has been one of the most influential experimental films in American cinema history. Deren went on to make several more films, including but not limited to At Land (1944), A Study in Choreography for Camera (1945), and Ritual in Transfigured Time (1946), writing, producing, directing, editing, and photographing them with help from only one other person, Hella Heyman, her camerawoman.

Early life
Deren was born May 12 1917 in Kyiv, Ukraine, Russian Empire, now independent Ukraine, into a Jewish family, to psychologist Solomon Derenkowsky and Gitel-Malka (Marie) Fiedler, who supposedly named their daughter after Italian actress Eleonora Duse.

In 1922, the family fled the Ukrainian SSR because of antisemitic pogroms perpetrated by the White Volunteer Army and moved to Syracuse, New York. Her father shortened the family name from Derenkovskaya to "Deren" shortly after they arrived in New York. He became the staff psychiatrist at the State Institute for the Feeble-Minded in Syracuse. Deren's mother was a musician and dancer who had studied these arts in Kyiv. In 1928, Deren's parents became naturalized citizens of the United States.

Deren was highly intelligent, starting fifth grade at only eight years old. She attended the League of Nations International School of Geneva, Switzerland for high school from 1930 to 1933. Her mother moved to Paris, France to be nearer to her while she studied. Deren learned to speak French while she was abroad.

Deren enrolled at Syracuse University at sixteen, where she began studying journalism and political science. Deren became a highly active socialist activist during the Trotskyist movement in her late teens. She served as National Student Secretary in the National Student office of the Young People's Socialist League and was a member of the Social Problems Club at Syracuse University.

At age eighteen in June 1935, she married Gregory Bardacke, a socialist activist whom she met through the Social Problems Club. After his graduation in 1935, she moved to New York City. She finished school at New York University with a Bachelor's degree in literature in June 1936, and returned to Syracuse that fall. She and Bardacke became active in various socialist causes in New York City; and it was during this time that they separated and eventually divorced three years later.

In 1938, Deren attended the New School for Social Research, and received a master's degree in English literature at Smith College. Her Master's thesis was titled The Influence of the French Symbolist School on Anglo-American Poetry (1939). This included works of Pound, Eliot, and the Imagists. By the age of 21, Deren had earned two degrees in literature.

Early career
After graduation from Smith, Deren returned to New York's Greenwich Village, where she joined the European émigré art scene. She supported herself from 1937 to 1939 by freelance writing for radio shows and foreign-language newspapers. During that time she also worked as an editorial assistant to famous American writers Eda Lou Walton, Max Eastman, and then William Seabrook. She wrote poetry and short fiction, tried her hand at writing a commercial novel, and also translated a work by Victor Serge which was never published. She became known for her European-style handmade clothes, wild red curly hair and fierce convictions.

In 1940, Deren moved to Los Angeles to focus on her poetry and freelance photography. In 1941, Deren wrote to Katherine Dunham—an African American dancer, choreographer, and anthropologist of Caribbean culture and dance—suggesting a children's book on dance and applying for a managerial job for her and her dance troupe; she later became Dunham's assistant and publicist. Deren travelled with the troupe for a year, learning greater appreciation for dance, as well as interest and appreciation for Haitian culture. Dunham's fieldwork influenced Deren's studies of Haitian culture and Vodou mythology. At the end of touring a new musical Cabin in the Sky, the Dunham dance company stopped in Los Angeles for several months to work in Hollywood. It was there that Deren met Alexandr Hackenschmied (who later changed his name to Alexander Hammid), a celebrated Czech-born photographer and cameraman who would become Deren's second husband in 1942. Hackenschmied had fled from Czechoslovakia in 1938 after the Sudetenland crisis.

Deren and Hammid lived together in Laurel Canyon, where he helped her with her still photography which focused on local fruit pickers in Los Angeles. Of two still photography magazine assignments of 1943 to depict artists active in New York City, including Ossip Zadkine, her photographs appeared in the Vogue magazine article. The other article intended for Mademoiselle magazine was not published, but three signed enlargements of photographs intended for this article, all depicting Deren's friend New York ceramist Carol Janeway, are preserved in the MoMA and the Philadelphia Museum of Art. All prints were from Janeway's estate.

Personal life
In 1943, she moved to a bungalow on Kings Road in Hollywood and adopted the name Maya, a pet name her second husband Hammid coined. Maya is the name of the mother of the historical Buddha as well as the dharmic concept of the illusory nature of reality. In Greek myth, Maia is the mother of Hermes and a goddess of mountains and fields.

In 1944, back in New York City, her social circle included Marcel Duchamp, André Breton, John Cage, and Anaïs Nin. In 1944, Deren filmed The Witch's Cradle in Peggy Guggenheim's Art of This Century gallery with Duchamp featured in the film.

In the December 1946 issue of Esquire magazine, a caption for her photograph teased that she "experiments with motion pictures of the subconscious, but here is finite evidence that the lady herself is infinitely photogenic." Her third husband, Teiji Itō, said: "Maya was always a Russian. In Haiti she was a Russian. She was always dressed up, talking, speaking many languages and being a Russian."

Film career
Deren defined cinema as an art, provided an intellectual context for film viewing, and filled a theoretical gap for the kinds of independent films that film societies were featuring. As Sarah Keller states, “Maya Deren lays claim to the honor of being one of the most important pioneers of the American film avant-garde with a scant seventy-five or so minutes of finished films to her credit.”

Deren began to screen and distribute her films in the United States, Canada, and Cuba, lecturing and writing on avant-garde film theory, and additionally on Vodou. In February 1946 she booked the Provincetown Playhouse in Greenwich Village for a major public exhibition, titled Three Abandoned Films, in which she showed Meshes of the Afternoon (1943), At Land (1944) and A Study in Choreography for Camera (1945). The event was completely sold out, inspiring Amos Vogel's formation of Cinema 16, the most successful film society of the 1950s.

In 1946, she was awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship for "Creative Work in the Field of Motion Pictures", and in 1947, won the Grand Prix International for avant-garde film at the Cannes Film Festival for Meshes of the Afternoon. She then created a scholarship for experimental filmmakers, the Creative Film Foundation.

Between 1952 and 1955, Deren collaborated with the Metropolitan Opera Ballet School and Antony Tudor to create The Very Eye of Night.

Deren's background and interest in dance appears in her work, most notably in the short film A Study in Choreography for Camera (1945). This combination of dance and film has often been referred to as "choreocinema", a term first coined by American dance critic John Martin.

In her work, she often focused on the unconscious experience, such as in Meshes of the Afternoon. This is thought to be inspired by her father who was a student of psychiatrist Vladimir Bekhterev who explored trance and hypnosis as neurological states. She also regularly explored themes of gender identity, incorporating elements of introspection and mythology. Despite her feminist subtext, she was mostly unrecognized by feminist writers at the time, even influential writers Claire Johnston and Laura Mulvey ignored Deren at the time, though Mulvey later would give Deren this recognition, since their works were often in conversation with each other.

Meshes of the Afternoon (1943)

In 1943, Deren purchased a used 16mm Bolex camera with some of the inheritance money after her father's death from a heart attack. This camera was used to make her first and best-known film, Meshes of the Afternoon (1943), made in collaboration with Hammid in their Los Angeles home on a budget of $250. Meshes of the Afternoon is recognized as a seminal American avant-garde film. Critics have seen autobiographical elements in the film, as well as thoughts about woman as subject rather than as object. Originally a silent film with no dialogue, music for the film was composed, long after its initial screenings, by Deren's third husband Teiji Itō in 1952. The film can be described as an expressionistic "trance film", full of dramatic angles and innovative editing. It investigates the ephemeral ways in which the protagonist's unconscious mind works and makes connections between objects and situations. A woman, played by Maya Deren, walks up to a house in Los Angeles, falls asleep and seems to have a dream. The sequence of walking up to the gate on the partially shaded road restarts numerous times, resisting conventional narrative expectations, and ends in various situations inside the house. Movement from the wind, shadows and the music sustain the heartbeat of the dream. Recurring symbols include a cloaked figure, mirrors, a key, and a knife.

The loose repetition and rhythm cut short any expectation of a conventional narrative, heightening the dream-like qualities. The camera initially does not show her face, which precludes identification with a particular woman, which creates a universalizing, totalizing effect- as it is easier to relate to an unknown, faceless woman. Multiple selves appear, shifting between the first and third person, suggesting that the super-ego is at play, which is in line with the psychoanalytic Freudian staircase and flower motifs. This kind of Freudian interpretation, which she disagreed with, led Deren to add sound, composed by Teiji Itō, to the film.

Another interpretation is that each film is an example of a "personal film". Her first film, Meshes of the Afternoon, explores a woman's subjectivity and relation to the external world. Georges Sadoul said Deren may have been "the most important figure in the post-war development of the personal, independent film in the U.S.A." In featuring the filmmaker as the woman whose subjectivity in the domestic space is explored, the feminist dictum "the personal is political" is foregrounded. As with her other films on self-representation, Deren navigates conflicting tendencies of the self and the "other", through doubling, multiplication and merging of the woman in the film. Following a dreamlike quest with allegorical complexity, Meshes of the Afternoon has an enigmatic structure and a loose affinity with both film noir and domestic melodrama. The film is famous for how it resonated with Deren's own life and anxieties. According to a review in The Moving Image, "this film emerges from a set of concerns and passionate commitments that are native to Deren's life and her trajectory. The first of these trajectories is Deren's interest in socialism during her youth and university years".

Director's notes
There is no concrete information about the conception of Meshes of the Afternoon beyond that Deren offered the poetic ideas and Hammid was able to turn them into visuals, as she envisioned them. Deren's initial concept began on the terms of a subjective camera, one that would show the point of view of herself without the aid of mirrors and would move as her eyes through spaces. According to the earliest program note, she describes Meshes of the Afternoon as follows:

"This film is concerned with the interior experiences of an individual. It does not record an event which could be witnessed by other persons. Rather, it reproduces the way in which the subconscious of an individual will develop, interpret, and elaborate an apparently simple and casual incident into a critical emotional experience."

At Land (1944)

Deren filmed At Land in Port Jefferson and Amagansett, New York in the summer of 1944. Taking on more of an environmental psychologist's perspective, Deren "externalizes the hidden dynamic of the external world...as if I had moved from a concern with the life of the fish, to a concern with the sea which accounts for the character of the fish and its life." Maya Deren washes up on the shore of the beach, and climbs up a piece of driftwood that leads to a room lit by chandeliers, and one long table filled with men and women smoking. She seems to be invisible to the people as she crawls across the table, uninhibited; her body continues seamlessly again onto a new frame, crawling through foliage; following the flowing pattern of water on rocks; following a man across a farm, to a sick man in bed, through a series of doors, and finally popping up outside on a cliff. She shrinks in the wide frame as she walks farther away from the camera, up and down sand dunes, then frantically collecting rocks back on the shore. Her expression seems confused when she sees two women playing chess in the sand. She runs back through the entire sequence, and because of the jump-cuts, it seems as though she is a double or "doppelganger", where her earlier self sees her other self running through the scene. Some of her movements are controlled, suggesting a theatrical, dancer-like quality, while some have an almost animalistic sensibility as she crawls through the seemingly foreign environments. This is one of Deren's films in which the focus is on the character's exploration of her own subjectivity in her physical environment, inside as well as outside her subconscious, although it has a similar amorphous quality compared to her other films.

A Study in Choreography for Camera (1945)

In the spring of 1945 she made A Study in Choreography for Camera, which Deren said was "an effort to isolate and celebrate the principle of the power of movement." The compositions and varying speeds of movement within the frame inform and interact with Deren's meticulous edits and varying film speeds and motions to create a dance that Deren said could only exist on film. Excited by the way the dynamic of movement is greater than anything else within the film, Maya established a completely new sense of the word "geography" as the movement of the dancer transcends and manipulates the ideas of both time and space. "'For Deren, no transition is needed between a place outside (such as a forest, or a park, or the beach) and an interior room. One action can be performed across different physical spaces, as in A Study in Choreography For Camera (1945), and in this way sews together layers of reality, thereby suggesting continuity between different levels of consciousness.'"At just under 3 minutes long, A Study in Choreography for Camera is a fragment depicting a carefully constructed exploration of a man who dances in a forest, and then seems to teleport to the inside of a house because of how continuous his movements are from one place to the next. The edit is broken, choppy, showing different angles and compositions, and even with parts in slow-motion, Deren is able to keep the quality of the leap smooth and seemingly uninterrupted. The choreography is perfectly synched as he seamlessly appears in an outdoor courtyard and then returns to an open, natural space. It shows a progression from nature to the confines of society, and back to nature. The figure belongs to dancer and choreographer Talley Beatty, whose last movement is a leap across the screen back to the natural world. Deren and Beatty met through Katherine Dunham, while Deren was her assistant and Beatty was a dancer in her company. It is worth noting that Beatty collaborated heavily with Deren in the creation of this film, hence why he is credited alongside Deren in the film's credit sequence. The film is also subtitled 'Pas de Deux', a dance term referring to a dance between two people, or in this case, a collaboration between Deren and Beatty.

A Study in Choreography for Camera was one of the first experimental dance films to be featured in the New York Times as well as Dance Magazine.

Ritual in Transfigured Time (1946)
By her fourth film, Deren discussed in An Anagram that she felt special attention should be given to unique possibilities of time and that the form should be ritualistic as a whole. Ritual in Transfigured Time began in August and was completed in 1946. It explored the fear of rejection and the freedom of expression in abandoning ritual, looking at the details as well as the bigger ideas of the nature and process of change. The main roles were played by Deren herself and the dancers Rita Christiani and Frank Westbrook.

Meditation on Violence (1948)
Deren's Meditation on Violence was made in 1948. Chao-Li Chi's performance obscures the distinction between violence and beauty. It was an attempt to "abstract the principle of ongoing metamorphosis", found in Ritual in Transfigured Time, though Deren felt it was not as successful in the clarity of that idea, brought down by its philosophical weight. Halfway through the film, the sequence is rewound, producing a film loop.

Criticism of Hollywood
Throughout the 1940s and 1950s, Deren attacked Hollywood for its artistic, political and economic monopoly over American cinema. She stated, "I make my pictures for what Hollywood spends on lipstick," criticizing the amount of money spent on production. She also observed that Hollywood "has been a major obstacle to the definition and development of motion pictures as a creative fine-art form." She set herself in opposition to the Hollywood film industry's standards and practices. Deren talks about the freedoms of independent cinema:

"Artistic freedom means that the amateur filmmaker is never forced to sacrifice visual drama and beauty to a stream of words...to the relentless activity and explanations of a plot...nor is the amateur production expected to return profit on a huge investment by holding the attention of a massive and motley audience for 90 minutes...Instead of trying to invent a plot that moves, use the movement of wind, or water, children, people, elevators, balls, etc. as a poem might celebrate these. And use your freedom to experiment with visual ideas; your mistakes will not get you fired."

Haiti and Vodou
When Maya Deren decided to make an ethnographic film in Haiti, she was criticized for abandoning avant-garde film where she had made her name, but she was ready to expand to a new level as an artist. She had studied ethnographic footage by Gregory Bateson in Bali in 1947, and was interested in including it in her next film. In September, she divorced Hammid and left for a nine-month stay in Haiti. The Guggenheim Fellowship grant in 1946 enabled Deren to finance her travel and film footage for what would posthumously become Divine Horsemen: The Living Gods of Haiti. She went on three additional trips through 1954 to document and record the rituals of Haitian Vodou.

A source of inspiration for ritual dance was Katherine Dunham who wrote her master's thesis on Haitian dances in 1939, which Deren edited. While working as Dunham's assistant, Deren was given access to Dunham's archive which included 16mm documents on the dances in Trinidad and Haiti. Exposure to these documents led her to write her 1942 essay titled, "Religious Possession in Dancing." Afterwards, Deren wrote several articles on religious possession in dancing before her first trip to Haiti. Deren filmed, recorded and photographed many hours of Vodou ritual, but she also participated in the ceremonies. She documented her knowledge and experience of Vodou in Divine Horsemen: The Living Gods of Haiti (New York: Vanguard Press, 1953), edited by Joseph Campbell, which is considered a definitive source on the subject. She described her attraction to Vodou possession ceremonies, transformation, dance, play, games and especially ritual came from her strong feeling on the need to decenter our thoughts of self, ego and personality. In her book An Anagram of Ideas on Art, Form, and Film she wrote:

"The ritualistic form treats the human being not as the source of the dramatic action, but as a somewhat depersonalized element in a dramatic whole. The intent of such depersonalization is not the destruction of the individual; on the contrary, it enlarges him beyond the personal dimension and frees him from the specializations and confines of personality. He becomes part of a dynamic whole which, like all such creative relationships, in turn, endow its parts with a measure of its larger meaning."

Deren filmed 18,000 feet of Vodou rituals and people she met in Haiti on her Bolex camera. The footage was incorporated into a posthumous documentary film Divine Horsemen: The Living Gods of Haiti, edited and produced in 1977 (with funding from Deren's friend James Merrill) by her ex-husband, Teiji Itō (1935–1982), and his wife Cherel Winett Itō (1947–1999). All of the original wire recordings, photographs and notes are held in the Maya Deren Collection at the Howard Gotlieb Archival Research Center at Boston University. The film footage is housed at Anthology Film Archives in New York City.

An LP of some of Deren's wire recordings was published by the newly formed Elektra Records in 1953 entitled Voices of Haiti. The cover art for the album was by Teiji Itō.

Anthropologists Melville Herkovitz and Harold Courlander acknowledged the importance of Divine Horsemen, and in contemporary studies it is often cited as an authoritative voice, where Deren's methodology has been especially praised because "Vodou has resisted all orthodoxies, never mistaking surface representations for inner realities."

In her book of the same name Deren uses the spelling Voudoun, explaining: "Voudoun terminology, titles and ceremonies still make use of the original African words and in this book they have been spelled out according to usual English phonetics and so as to render, as closely as possible, the Haitian pronunciation. Most of the songs, sayings and even some of the religious terms, however, are in Creole, which is primarily French in derivation (although it also contains African, Spanish and Indian words). Where the Creole word retains its French meaning, it has been written out so as to indicate both the original French word and the distinctive Creole pronunciation." In her Glossary of Creole Words, Deren includes 'Voudoun' while the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary draws attention to the similar French word, Vaudoux.

Death
Deren died in 1961, at the age of 44 from a brain hemorrhage, which has been attributed to a combination of malnutrition and drug use. Her condition may have also been weakened by her long-term dependence on amphetamines and sleeping pills prescribed by Max Jacobson, a doctor and member of the arts scene, notorious for his liberal prescription of drugs, who later became famous as one of President John F. Kennedy's physicians.

Her ashes were scattered in Japan at Mount Fuji.

Legacy
Deren was an inspiration to such up-and-coming avant-garde filmmakers as Curtis Harrington, Stan Brakhage, and Kenneth Anger, who emulated her independent, entrepreneurial spirit. Her influence can also be seen in films by Carolee Schneemann, Barbara Hammer, and Su Friedrich. In his review for renowned experimental filmmaker David Lynch's Inland Empire, writer Jim Emerson compares the work to Meshes of the Afternoon, apparently a favorite of Lynch's.

Deren was a key figure in the creation of a New American Cinema, highlighting personal, experimental, underground film. In 1986, the American Film Institute created the Maya Deren Award to honor independent filmmakers.

The Legend of Maya Deren, Vol. 1 Part 2 consists of hundreds of documents, interviews, oral histories, letters, and autobiographical memoirs.

Works about Deren and her works have been produced in various media:
 * Deren appears as a character in the long narrative poem The Changing Light at Sandover (1976-1980) by her friend James Merrill.
 * In 1987, Jo Ann Kaplan directed a biographical documentary about Deren, titled Invocation: Maya Deren (65 min)
 * In 1994, the UK-based Horse and Bamboo Theatre created and toured Dance of White Darkness throughout Europe—the story of Deren's visits to Haiti.
 * In 2002, Martina Kudláček directed a feature-length documentary about Deren, titled In the Mirror of Maya Deren (Im Spiegel der Maya Deren), which featured music by John Zorn.

Deren's films have also been shown with newly written alternative soundtracks:
 * In 2004, the British rock group Subterraneans produced new soundtracks for six of Deren's short films as part of a commission from Queen's University Belfast's annual film festival. At Land won the festival prize for sound design.
 * In 2008, the Portuguese rock group Mão Morta produced new soundtracks for four of Deren's short films as part of a commission from Curtas Vila do Conde's annual film festival.

Awards and honors

 * Guggenheim Fellowship 1946
 * Grand Prix International for Avant-garde Film at the Cannes Film Festival (1947)
 * Creative Work in Motion Pictures (1947)

Written works
Deren was also an important film theorist.
 * Her most widely read essay on film theory is probably An Anagram of Ideas on Art, Form and Film, Deren's seminal treatise that laid the groundwork for many of her ideas on film as an art form (Yonkers, NY: Alicat Book Shop Press, 1946).
 * Her collected essays were published in 2005 and arranged in three sections:
 * 1) Film Poetics, including: Amateur versus Professional, Cinema as an Art Form, An Anagram of Ideas on Art, Form and Film, Cinematography: The Creative Use of Reality
 * 2) Film Production, including: Creating Movies with a New Dimension: Time, Creative Cutting, Planning by Eye, Adventures in Creative Film-Making
 * 3) Film in Medias Res, including: A Letter, Magic is New, New Directions in Film Art, Choreography for the Camera, Ritual in Transfigured Time, Meditation on Violence, The Very Eye of Night.
 * Divine Horsemen: Living Gods of Haiti was published in 1953 by Vanguard Press (New York City) and Thames & Hudson (London), republished under the title of The Voodoo Gods by Paladin in 1975, and again under its original title by McPherson & Company in 1998.

title: Maya Deren


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Talk:June Havoc

Several questions

 * 1) June and Gypsy continued to get demands for money from their mother, who had opened a boardinghouse in a ten-room apartment on West End Avenue
 * In what city?
 * New York City. And it was a lesbian boardinghouse, I think it's wrong to expunge this: it's not debated.

 * 1) and a farm in Highland Mills
 * In what state?
 * New York

 * 1) Rose shot and killed one of her guests, (according to Erik Preminger
 * Who's he?
 * Erik Preminger is Gypsy Rose Lee's son by Otto Preminger.

 * 1) this incident was kept quiet.
 * How? By whom?  For what purpose?
 * VERY good question. By everyone, and to avoid scandal, but the particulars of how I hope to find in "Early Havoc".

 * 1) With Rose dead, the sisters now felt free to write about her without risking a lawsuit
 * When did she die? How? This flows right after the supposed murder, without any indication as to her being ill or executed, or whatever.
 * She died of colon cancer. Both sisters have explicitly stated that they did not write until she was dead because of the fear of lawsuit.

--Zoe

Thanks for looking at this, it's good to have another set of eyes point out what's not written clearly! -- Someone else 02:33 Feb 18, 2003 (UTC)

Needs more June
I just read this. There's nothing wrong with what's in it, altho much of echoes the Gypsy Rose Lee article. But June Havoc was a fine actress and beautiful woman in her own right (I remember especially her cascading blond hair), and I don't think the article does her justice. I can't fix it, but I do note it. Bellagio99 (talk) 15:20, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Confusing birth date information
From the opening sentence: "June Havoc (born November 8, 1916)..."

From the second section: "... She was actually born in 1913, rather than 1916, ..." Davefoc (talk) 20:00, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

I found a passport application on Ancestry.com for Rose Elizabeth Hovick (dated Feb 12, 1925). Information from that passport: People listed as accompanying her: The passport says that she was divorced but it lists the name of her husband as John O. Hovick. The ancestry.com site requires a fee, however if somebody would like me to email an image of the passport application, just send a request to davefoc@gmail.com. Davefoc (talk) 21:18, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Rose Louise, born in Everett, Washington on January 8, 1908
 * Ellen June, born in Seattle, Washington on November 8, 1910

 * Dave - I suspect the above is inaccurate. Their mother lied about anything when she felt she needed to, whether that meant making the girls older or younger. June was not even born in Washington State, but in Vancouver, British Columbia. Yours, Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 20:00, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

 * I agree, the passport evidence does not go to what the actual birth date was. It is just a piece of evidence for the claim that the mother did lie about their birthdays and apparently she also lied about their birth locations.--Davefoc (talk) 17:17, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

More information on June Havoc's birthday: Noralee Frankel lists it as January 8, 1913 in her book, Stripping Gypsy, as opposed to the November 8, 1913 date (after the edit by DerbyCountyinNZ) listed in the Wikipedia article. I didn't change the article because I don't think the evidence was quite enough to justify changing somebody else's work about the month. However, Frankel thinks that the evidence "strongly suggests" 1911 as the birth year of Gypsy and this would put June's birth year as 1913. I did list Frankel as an additional source for the birth date in the article.
 * NOTE: Frankel conflated the January 11 8 date (Gypsy's birthday) and ascribed it to June as well by mistake. Both sisters were definitely NOT born on January 11 8. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 23:03, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

The following information was supplied by Annette Lloyd, the author of several books on Harold Lloyd (including most recently, Magic in a pair of Horn-rimmed Glasses) via email.

 * June does not appear in the extant versions of "Hey There" although she was on the payroll ledger for the film. So it isn't possible to assess the credibility of June's birth year based on what she looks like in "Hey There".

 * June does appear in the Harold Lloyd 1918 film, "On the Jump" and Annette Lloyd feels that June's apparent age in that film is very consistent with a birth year of 1913 for June.

If she was born in 1913 her age when she first married in 1929 would have been 16 and not 13 as is often reported. This would seem to add more credibility to the 1913 date also. --Davefoc (talk) 19:52, 30 October 2009 (UTC)
 * June was born in 1913 (not 1916) and Louise in 1911 (not 1914). Their mother had kept them ignorant of their true ages. Not until years later did the sisters learn they were three years older than they each thought. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Some sources give her age at death as 97 - there is still confusion over the dates of birth of her and her sister. Is there solid proof of any date, such as birth certificates, entries in birth registers or census entries? Jim Michael (talk) 16:25, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * You're right, of course, that that is always preferable. I was going by what I read in a library copy of a bio of Gypsy Rose Lee, Stripping Gypsy: The Life of Gypsy Rose Lee by Noralee Frankel. The author references Havoc's coming into possession of her birth certificate for the first time as an adult and contacting her sister re the discrepancy in their commonly assumed years of birth.
 * Also, re Noralee Frankel lists it as January 8, 1913 in her book, Stripping Gypsy, as opposed to the November 8, 1913 date (above thread) -- I observed that when I was reading the book. I think Frankel just conflated the January 11 8 date (Gypsy's birthday) and ascribed it to June by mistake. There is no way both sisters were born on January 11 8.  Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 19:58, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

 * The World Almanac lists Nov 8 1916, as does the US Public records index: http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=USpublicrecords3&so=2&rank=0&=%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c1%2c+%2c%2c%2c1%2c+%2c%2c%2c1%2c+%2c%2c%2c1%2c+%2c%2c%2c%2c%2c1%2c+%2c%2c&gsfn=June&gsln=Havoc&sx=&gs1co=1%2cAll+Countries&gs1pl=1%2c+&year=&yearend=&sbo=1&sbor=&ufr=0&wp=4%3b_80000002%3b_80000003&srchb=r&prox=1&db=&ti=0&ti.si=0&gss=angs-b76.17.118.157 (talk) 02:58, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Under these circumstances, I would say those are not reliable. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 16:18, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

 * I agree with RMS125 completely on all this. I think Frankel did conflate the birthday of June with that of Gypsy Rose Lee by mistake.  That was too bad because she seems to be a very thorough researcher and the fact that she favored the 1913 birth year for June was good evidence that June was actually born in 1913.  At this point, the evidence from her early movies coupled with the idea that she would have wed at 13 seems to completely rule out 1916 as her birth year.  I had never seen 1912 suggested as the year of her birth before her death but the marriage and movie evidence don't preclude the possibility that this is the correct date.  The evidence for the 1912 date is not strong.  The obituaries I saw equivocated about the reliability of the date.  It is conceivable that a single person made a birth year calculation mistake and the current round of reporting on June Havoc's age is all based on that miscalculation.  Regardless, the current references listed in the article all support the 1913 date.  If the article is going to use 1912 the reference need to be changed.--Davefoc (talk) 17:17, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

 * This is a link to a YouTube video with June Havoc performing in the 1918 short comedy "On the Jump" that starred Harold Lloyd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dFFFfPa0Mo
 * The video comes about as close as humanly possible to ruling out the 1916 birth date I think. The person that posted the video says that June was four in it but to my eyes 5 or 6 seems more likely which would be consistent with either the 1912 or 1913 birth years which seem to have the most support. I think it might be a nice addition to the external links section to add the video. It also confirms her role in "On the Jump" which might be added to her filmography. I have personally looked through a video version of "Hey There" and I am sure that Havoc wasn't in it. I think that listing in the filmography is suspect. --Davefoc (talk) 07:31, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Gypsy Rose Lee Birth year
The birth date for Gypsy Rose Lee was changed to 1914 in this article. The birth date listed in the Wikipedia article for Gypsy Rose Lee (January 9, 1914) is almost certainly wrong. Gypsy Rose Lee was the older sister of June Havoc (this seems to be an issue not in dispute). So if June was born in 1913 Gypsy was born before then. Noralee Frankel the author of Stripping Gypsy discusses the birth date of Gypsy and June on pages 3 & 4 of her book and concludes with these two sentences: "To add to the confusion, Rose registered Gypsy for school in 1916 using the name Rose Louise and a birth date of January 9, 1911. Such evidence strongly suggests Gypsy was born in 1911." from: http://books.google.com/books?id=O2xxhFcOXfwC&printsec=frontcover&dq=stripping+gypsy&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wyn0Togc5NGIAuXjmIAN&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=stripping%20gypsy&f=false --Davefoc (talk) 19:03, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Here is a link to an image of a passport application for Rose Hovick dated February 12, 1925. She lists the ages and birth locations of her children as noted above. This is not proof of what the actual birth dates were since Rose is known to have lied often about the ages of her children. But it does provide another piece of evidence that Gypsy was older than June. It also includes the fact that Rose was divorced on August 20, 1915. This is another piece of evidence that the 1916 birth year for June Havoc is not correct. https://picasaweb.google.com/109328117361721097794/MiscImages02#5689411595319535426 --Davefoc (talk) 19:51, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

I undid the change of Gypsy Rose Lee's birth date and returned it to 1911. --Davefoc (talk) 19:54, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Daughter April
Info re daughter (April Hyde) from New York Times. Daughter's year of birth questionable; IMDb is not always accurate as some sources cite 1935 as April's year of birth. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 02:20, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The SSDI is a more reliable source for her lifespan. The IMDb profile should still be used as a ref, as it gives details of her acting career, as well as the fact she used the surname Kent for her career, and that her maiden name was Reed, despite the fact that Havoc's first husband Bobby Reed was not her father. Jim Michael (talk) 13:55, 29 March 2010 (UTC)
 * SSDI gives date of birth of April R. Hyde as April 2, 1935; date of death as December 28, 1998. I searched the SSDI before but I guess I didn't use the right combination of names. I guess the "R." shows that Reed was her maiden name as you posited, but I was right about the year of birth, not IMDb. Thanks for your help. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 14:23, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Place of birth
Some sources state Seattle. Jim Michael (talk) 02:16, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Which sources? Are they reliable? I would advise against making further unilateral changes without discussion first. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 02:21, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Ref 11, MSNBC, which I believe is considered reliable. Jim Michael (talk) 21:08, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * MSNBC, I dunno. I really doubt MSNBC has the ability to discern which of the numerous birth certificates her mother held for her daughters is correct. If Havoc was born in Canada, albeit apparently to American parents, maybe Canadian ancestry records can confirm. Rms125a@hotmail.com (talk) 21:44, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

 * I believe Havoc was born in Canada either in 1912 or 1913. There is a passport application that lists her birth location as Seattle, Washington and her birth date as November 8, 1910. However, this may be the sole piece of evidence for a non-Canadian birth location and given her mother's propensity for lying about her children's ages it seems likely that the birth location listed on it is probably a lie also. Canada is more restrictive about releasing birth records than the US and assuming that Havoc was born in Canada, her birth information won't be publically available for a very long time. Access to Havoc's birth information might serve to clear up any issues concerning her birth date, birth location and birth name. One indication that she wasn't born in Seattle is that her birth certificate wasn't found by either Frankel or Abbott, two authors that wrote biographies of Gypsy Rose Lee. Abbott did find a birth certificate for Gypsy Rose Lee. Given that almost all sources list Havoc's birth location as Canada and that no birth certificate has surfaced to contradict this I think it is very likely she was born in Canada, but without the Canadian birth certificate pinning this down to a certainty probably isn't possible.--Davefoc (talk) 19:22, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Guinness Book
I recall seeing Havoc's name in a Guiness Book of World Records, back in mid-60s. Anyone here or @Guiness remember why she was in there? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BubbleDine (talk • contribs) 13:57, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

If she was in the Guiness book of records it was probably for marathon dancing. Several on-line articles claim that she was in the Guiness book of Records for lasting 3600 hours in a marathon dance contest. While this was an incredible feat it may not have been the longest such feat during the marathon dance era. One book on the subject that I found with a Google Book search listed other people with somewhat longer endurance times as the record holders. The Guiness World Record site doesn't list her but the site includes only a small portion of the data from past books. Regardless, it seems like the fact that Havoc actually lasted 3600 hours in a dance marathon contest is interesting enough and relevant enough to her life that it deserves a mention in the article.--Davefoc (talk) 17:19, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

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"They later divorced"
Quite likely, as the next sentence is about her next marriage. So what information does "they later divorced" add?2A02:AA1:1010:5FFF:142B:3BBF:FFF3:9590 (talk) 15:41, 17 December 2019 (UTC)

removed not deleted
should read "removed" not "deleted" 2607:F2C0:EA79:FDAC:F0B6:901F:E8DF:92EE (talk) 23:57, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:June Havoc


text:
Talk:Steal This Album!

unburnable?
A friend of mine said that the cd is unable to be copied. I don't have it and have never tried, but is that true. He said the band didn't know about it till afterwards, but is there any truth to it? If so it should be mentioned since it would be a very ironic piece of trivia. Also, there is another cd called Steal This Album by The Coup, if anyone finds that worthy of mentioning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.168.14.42 (talk • contribs) 03:53, 12 September 2005

I'm pretty sure it can be copied. I've got the CD and I think I have burned it before, but I think you can only access the online lyrics page with the CD in your drive. Other than that, it says nothing about copy protection,...unfortunately. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.142.85 (talk • contribs) 05:48, 13 July 2006

-

I read (somewhere, too lazy to dredge for URLS) that Steal This Album! was B-sides from Toxicity and unreleased material. The songs were floating around the 'net and being traded via P2P between SOAD fans. SOAD figured they could make some cash off it and pulled all the tracks into an album, appropriately entitled Steal This Album!, for obvious reasons.

I myself had a few of the tracks on this CD before it was released in retail. -- Goatasaur 02:26 Feb 18, 2003 (UTC)

That's pretty much it.

Steal This Album! was not a planned release from SOAD.--Biohazard 23:59, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

nope
Steal This Album! was an outtakes album, consisting of songs that were recorded during Toxicity sessions but didn't fit the mood of the album. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.161.205.250 (talk • contribs) 14:27, 22 August 2005

Fuck the System
It says that on the back of the album, it is written as "F**k the System" however, on my copy, it is written as "F*** the System". Can anyone else confirm either? Kame2000 14:10, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
 * My copy says "F**k the System". AMG lists it this way, too. Nufy8 17:12, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * My copy says "F*** the System". [[Image:Flag_of_Poland.svg|20px]] gracz54 21:44, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Theft rate
Is the theft rate for this album high? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.181.207.142 (talk) 08:07, 1 January 2007 (UTC). I doubt many people actually stole it, if any --Dexter_prog (talk • contribs • count)  @ 14:35, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

"Special Edition" Covers
Can we get some pictures of the special album covers up? Kingoomieiii 13:32, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

CSD?
This page apparently has a CSD tag on it, although I can't find it to remove it...I absolutely contest its speedy deletion. It sold two million copies! Chubbles 15:08, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a bug, don't worry about it. We're going through and fixing them now. ZsinjTalk 16:32, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Virgin Tea/Fortress
Anyone mind explain why these didn't make the cut? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.159.221.218 (talk • contribs) 21:30, 23 May 2007
 * Because SOAD thought it didn't fit in the overall continuity of the album. [[Image:Flag_of_Poland.svg|20px]] gracz54 19:26, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Writing Credits
Hey, does anybody know the ACTUAL writing credits. I mean, not just 'song written by Serj and Daron', but who actually wrote lyrics and music? I think this would be good info to add to the page. FallenWings47 23:33, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Recording studio argument?
I heard that they called it Steal This Album! because they didn't want to earn money because of a prior argument with the recording studio? Is there any truth to that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.170.54.89 (talk) 04:04, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Songs which have been played live
Article writes: After the end of the band's hiatus in 2011, the only songs to have been played from the album are "I-E-A-I-A-I-O", "Mr. Jack", "Innervision", and "Roulette". In the 2013 tour they played also "A.D.D.".[4]

However, they have played Highway Song live in London, google/youtube "highway song astoria". They also recently played Chic N Stu at their last concert on april 6th at the forum in los angeles

Rsage (talk) 22:03, 7 June 2015 (UTC)

Nu metal
I added nu metal in the infobox because this album is overall similar to toxicity. Please discuss here if you remove nu metal from the infobox 213.26.205.146 (talk) 17:13, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Steal This Album!


text:
Quotient ring

In ring theory, a branch of abstract algebra, a quotient ring, also known as factor ring, difference ring or residue class ring, is a construction quite similar to the quotient group in group theory and to the quotient space in linear algebra. It is a specific example of a quotient, as viewed from the general setting of universal algebra. Starting with a ring R and a two-sided ideal I in R, a new ring, the quotient ring R / I, is constructed, whose elements are the cosets of I in R subject to special + and ⋅ operations. (Quotient ring notation always uses a fraction slash "/".)

Quotient rings are distinct from the so-called "quotient field", or field of fractions, of an integral domain as well as from the more general "rings of quotients" obtained by localization.

Formal quotient ring construction
Given a ring R and a two-sided ideal I in R, we may define an equivalence relation ~ on R as follows:
 * a ~ b if and only if a − b is in I.

Using the ideal properties, it is not difficult to check that ~ is a congruence relation. In case a ~ b, we say that a and b are congruent modulo I (for example, 1 and 3 are congruent modulo 2 as their difference is an element of the ideal 2Z, the even integers). The equivalence class of the element a in R is given by
 * [a] = a + I := $\{a + r : r ∈ I\}$.

This equivalence class is also sometimes written as a mod I and called the "residue class of a modulo I".

The set of all such equivalence classes is denoted by R / I; it becomes a ring, the factor ring or quotient ring of R modulo I, if one defines (Here one has to check that these definitions are well-defined. Compare coset and quotient group.) The zero-element of R / I is $\overline{0}$ = (0 + I) = I, and the multiplicative identity is $\overline{1}$ = (1 + I).
 * (a + I) + (b + I) = (a + b) + I;
 * (a + I)(b + I) = (ab) + I.

The map p from R to R / I defined by p(a) = a + I is a surjective ring homomorphism, sometimes called the natural quotient map or the canonical homomorphism.

Examples

 * The quotient ring R / $\{0\}$ is naturally isomorphic to R, and R / R is the zero ring $\{0\}$, since, by our definition, for any r ∈ R, we have that [r] = r + R = $\{r + b : b ∈ R\}$, which equals R itself. This fits with the rule of thumb that the larger the ideal I, the smaller the quotient ring R / I. If I is a proper ideal of R, i.e., I ≠ R, then R / I is not the zero ring.
 * Consider the ring of integers Z and the ideal of even numbers, denoted by 2Z. Then the quotient ring Z / 2Z has only two elements, the coset 0 + 2Z consisting of the even numbers and the coset 1 + 2Z consisting of the odd numbers; applying the definition, [z] = z + 2Z = $\{z + 2y : 2y ∈ 2Z\}$, where 2Z is the ideal of even numbers. It is naturally isomorphic to the finite field with two elements, F$2$. Intuitively: if you think of all the even numbers as 0, then every integer is either 0 (if it is even) or 1 (if it is odd and therefore differs from an even number by 1). Modular arithmetic is essentially arithmetic in the quotient ring Z / nZ (which has n elements).
 * Now consider the ring of polynomials in the variable X with real coefficients, R[X], and the ideal I = (X$2$ + 1) consisting of all multiples of the polynomial X$2$ + 1. The quotient ring R[X] / (X$2$ + 1) is naturally isomorphic to the field of complex numbers C, with the class [X] playing the role of the imaginary unit i. The reason is that we "forced" X$2$ + 1 = 0, i.e. X$2$ = −1, which is the defining property of i. Since any integer exponent of i must be either ±i or ±1, that means all possible polynomials essentially simplify to the form a + bi. (To clarify, the quotient ring R[X] / (X$2$ + 1) is actually naturally isomorphic to the field of all linear polynomials aX + b, a, b ∈ R, where the operations are performed mod (X$2$ + 1). In return, we have X$2$ = −1, and this is matching X to the imaginary unit in the isomorphic field of complex numbers.)
 * Generalizing the previous example, quotient rings are often used to construct field extensions. Suppose K is some field and f is an irreducible polynomial in K[X]. Then L = K[X] / (f) is a field whose minimal polynomial over K is f, which contains K as well as an element x = X + (f).
 * One important instance of the previous example is the construction of the finite fields. Consider for instance the field F3 = Z / 3Z with three elements. The polynomial f(X) = X + 1 is irreducible over F3 (since it has no root), and we can construct the quotient ring F3[X] / (f). This is a field with 32 = 9 elements, denoted by F9. The other finite fields can be constructed in a similar fashion.
 * The coordinate rings of algebraic varieties are important examples of quotient rings in algebraic geometry. As a simple case, consider the real variety V = $\{(x, y) | x^{2} = y^{3}\}$ as a subset of the real plane R2. The ring of real-valued polynomial functions defined on V can be identified with the quotient ring R[X, Y] / (X − Y3), and this is the coordinate ring of V. The variety V is now investigated by studying its coordinate ring.
 * Suppose M is a C∞-manifold, and p is a point of M. Consider the ring R = C∞(M) of all C∞-functions defined on M and let I be the ideal in R consisting of those functions f which are identically zero in some neighborhood U of p (where U may depend on f). Then the quotient ring R / I is the ring of germs of C∞-functions on M at p.
 * Consider the ring F of finite elements of a hyperreal field *R. It consists of all hyperreal numbers differing from a standard real by an infinitesimal amount, or equivalently: of all hyperreal numbers x for which a standard integer n with −n < x < n exists. The set I of all infinitesimal numbers in *R, together with 0, is an ideal in F, and the quotient ring F / I is isomorphic to the real numbers R. The isomorphism is induced by associating to every element x of F the standard part of x, i.e. the unique real number that differs from x by an infinitesimal. In fact, one obtains the same result, namely R, if one starts with the ring F of finite hyperrationals (i.e. ratio of a pair of hyperintegers), see construction of the real numbers.

Variations of complex planes
The quotients R[X] / (X), R[X] / (X + 1), and R[X] / (X − 1) are all isomorphic to R and gain little interest at first. But note that R[X] / (X) is called the dual number plane in geometric algebra. It consists only of linear binomials as "remainders" after reducing an element of R[X] by X. This variation of a complex plane arises as a subalgebra whenever the algebra contains a real line and a nilpotent.

Furthermore, the ring quotient R[X] / (X − 1) does split into R[X] / (X + 1) and R[X] / (X − 1), so this ring is often viewed as the direct sum R ⊕ R. Nevertheless, a variation on complex numbers z = x + y j is suggested by j as a root of X − 1, compared to i as root of X + 1 = 0. This plane of split-complex numbers normalizes the direct sum R ⊕ R by providing a basis $\{1, j\}$ for 2-space where the identity of the algebra is at unit distance from the zero. With this basis a unit hyperbola may be compared to the unit circle of the ordinary complex plane.

Quaternions and variations
Suppose X and Y are two, non-commuting, indeterminates and form the free algebra R$⟨X, Y⟩$. Then Hamilton's quaternions of 1843 can be cast as
 * R$⟨X, Y⟩$ / (X$2$ + 1, Y$2$ + 1, XY + YX).

If Y − 1 is substituted for Y + 1, then one obtains the ring of split-quaternions. The anti-commutative property YX = −XY implies that XY has as its square
 * (XY)(XY) = X(YX)Y = −X(XY)Y = −(XX)(YY) = −(−1)(+1) = +1.

Substituting minus for plus in both the quadratic binomials also results in split-quaternions.

The three types of biquaternions can also be written as quotients by use of the free algebra with three indeterminates R$⟨X, Y, Z⟩$ and constructing appropriate ideals.

Properties
Clearly, if R is a commutative ring, then so is R / I; the converse, however, is not true in general.

The natural quotient map p has I as its kernel; since the kernel of every ring homomorphism is a two-sided ideal, we can state that two-sided ideals are precisely the kernels of ring homomorphisms.

The intimate relationship between ring homomorphisms, kernels and quotient rings can be summarized as follows: the ring homomorphisms defined on R / I are essentially the same as the ring homomorphisms defined on R that vanish (i.e. are zero) on I. More precisely, given a two-sided ideal I in R and a ring homomorphism f : R → S whose kernel contains I, there exists precisely one ring homomorphism g : R / I → S with gp = f (where p is the natural quotient map). The map g here is given by the well-defined rule g([a]) = f(a) for all a in R. Indeed, this universal property can be used to define quotient rings and their natural quotient maps.

As a consequence of the above, one obtains the fundamental statement: every ring homomorphism f : R → S induces a ring isomorphism between the quotient ring R / ker(f) and the image im(f). (See also: Fundamental theorem on homomorphisms.)

The ideals of R and R / I are closely related: the natural quotient map provides a bijection between the two-sided ideals of R that contain I and the two-sided ideals of R / I (the same is true for left and for right ideals). This relationship between two-sided ideal extends to a relationship between the corresponding quotient rings: if M is a two-sided ideal in R that contains I, and we write M / I for the corresponding ideal in R / I (i.e. M / I = p(M)), the quotient rings R / M and (R / I) / (M / I) are naturally isomorphic via the (well-defined) mapping a + M ↦ (a + I) + M / I.

The following facts prove useful in commutative algebra and algebraic geometry: for R ≠ $\{0\}$ commutative, R / I is a field if and only if I is a maximal ideal, while R / I is an integral domain if and only if I is a prime ideal. A number of similar statements relate properties of the ideal I to properties of the quotient ring R / I.

The Chinese remainder theorem states that, if the ideal I is the intersection (or equivalently, the product) of pairwise coprime ideals I1, ..., Ik, then the quotient ring R / I is isomorphic to the product of the quotient rings R / In, n = 1, ..., k.

For algebras over a ring
An associative algebra A over a commutative ring R is a ring itself. If I is an ideal in A (closed under R-multiplication), then A / I inherits the structure of an algebra over R and is the quotient algebra.

Further references

 * F. Kasch (1978) Moduln und Ringe, translated by DAR Wallace (1982) Modules and Rings, Academic Press, page 33.
 * Neal H. McCoy (1948) Rings and Ideals, §13 Residue class rings, page 61, Carus Mathematical Monographs #8, Mathematical Association of America.
 * B.L. van der Waerden (1970) Algebra, translated by Fred Blum and John R Schulenberger, Frederick Ungar Publishing, New York. See Chapter 3.5, "Ideals. Residue Class Rings", pp. 47–51.
 * B.L. van der Waerden (1970) Algebra, translated by Fred Blum and John R Schulenberger, Frederick Ungar Publishing, New York. See Chapter 3.5, "Ideals. Residue Class Rings", pp. 47–51.

title: Quotient ring


text:
Lander (spacecraft)

A lander is a spacecraft that descends towards, then comes to rest on the surface of an astronomical body other than Earth. In contrast to an impact probe, which makes a hard landing that damages or destroys the probe upon reaching the surface, a lander makes a soft landing after which the probe remains functional.

For bodies with atmospheres, the landing occurs after atmospheric entry. In these cases, landers may employ parachutes to slow them down enough to maintain a low terminal velocity. In some cases, small landing rockets will be fired just before impact in order to reduce the lander's velocity. Landing may be accomplished by controlled descent and set down on landing gear, with the possible addition of a post-landing attachment mechanism (such as the mechanism used by Philae) for celestial bodies with low gravity. Some missions (for example, Luna 9 and Mars Pathfinder) used inflatable airbags to cushion the lander's impact rather than utilizing more traditional landing gear.

When a high-velocity impact is intentionally planned in order to study the consequences of impact, the spacecraft is called an impactor.

Several terrestrial bodies have been subject to lander or impactor exploration. Among them are Earth's Moon; the planets Venus, Mars, and Mercury; Saturn's moon Titan; asteroids; and comets.

Lunar
Beginning with Luna 2 in 1959, the first few spacecraft to reach the lunar surface were impactors, not landers. They were part of the Soviet Luna program or the American Ranger program.

In 1966, the Soviet Luna 9 became the first spacecraft to achieve a lunar soft landing and to transmit photographic data to Earth. The American Surveyor program (1966–1968) was designed to determine where Apollo could land safely. As a result, these robotic missions required soft landers to sample the lunar soil and determine the thickness of the dust layer, which was unknown before Surveyor.

The U.S.-crewed Apollo Lunar Modules (1969–1972) with rovers (1971–1972) and late Soviet large robotic landers (1969–), Lunokhods (1970–1973) and sample return missions (1970–1976) used a rocket descent engine for a soft landing of astronauts and lunar rovers on the Moon.

The Chinese Chang'e 3 mission and its Yutu ('Jade Rabbit') rover landed on 14 December 2013. In 2019, China's Chang'e 4 mission successfully landed the Yutu-2 rover on the far side of the Moon. Chang'e 5 and Chang'e 6 are designed to be sample return missions. Chang'e 5 is currently scheduled for 2020, while Chang'e 6 is planned for 2023 or 2024. Chang'e 5 mission landed on the Moon on 1 December 2020, China completed the Chang'e 5 mission on 16 December 2020 with the return of approximately 2 kilograms of lunar sample.

On 6 September 2019, the lander Vikram on Chandrayaan-2, attempting to land on the lunar south polarregion. Due to software glitch, it lost contact and crashed moments before landing.

About 4 years later, on 23 August 2023, the lander Vikram on Chandrayaan-3 successfully touched down on the lunar south pole, close to the crater Manzinus U. This made it the first lander to soft land at the south pole of the Moon.

Japan became the fifth country to land a lunar probe on 19 January 2024, by successfully landing its SLIM lander.

On 22 February 2024, Intuitive Machine's Odysseus successfully landed on the Moon after taking off on a SpaceX Falcon 9. This was the first successful landing of a privately owned spacecraft on the Moon.

China sent Chang'e 6 on 3 May, which conducted the first lunar sample return from the far side of the Moon. This is China's second lunar sample return mission, the first being achieved by Chang'e 5 from the lunar near side in 2020.

Venus
The Soviet Venera program included a number of Venus landers, some of which were crushed during descent much as Galileo's Jupiter "lander" and others which successfully touched down. Venera 3 in 1966 and Venera 7 in 1970 became the first impact and soft landing on Venus respectively. The Soviet Vega program also placed two balloons in the Venusian atmosphere in 1985, which were the first aerial tools on other planets.

Mars
The Soviet Union's Mars 1962B became the first mission intended to impact on Mars in 1962. In 1971, the lander of the Mars 3 probe conducted the first soft landing on Mars, but communication was lost within a minute after touchdown, which occurred during one of the worst global dust storms since the beginning of telescopic observations of the Red Planet. Three other landers, Mars 2 in 1971 and Mars 5 and Mars 6 in 1973, either crashed or failed to even enter the planet's atmosphere. All four landers used an aeroshell-like heat shield during atmospheric entry. Mars 2 and Mars 3 landers carried the first small skis-walking Mars rovers, PrOP-M, that did not work on the planet.

The Soviet Union planned the heavy Marsokhod Mars 4NM mission in 1973 and the Mars sample return Mars 5NM mission in 1975, but neither occurred due to needing the N1 super-launcher that was never flown successfully. A double-launching Soviet Mars 5M (Mars-79) sample return mission was planned for 1979 but cancelled due to complexity and technical problems.

NASA's Viking 1 and Viking 2 were launched respectively in August and September 1975, each comprising an orbiter vehicle and a lander. Viking 1 landed in July 1976 Viking 2 in September 1976. The Viking program rovers were the first successful, functioning Mars landers. The mission ended in May 1983, after both landers had stopped working.

Mars 96 was the first complex post-Soviet Russian mission with an orbiter, lander, penetrators. Planned for 1996, it failed at launch. A planned repeat of this mission, Mars 98, was cancelled due to lack of funding. The U.S. Mars Pathfinder was launched in December 1996 and released the first acting rover on Mars, Sojourner, in July 1997. It worked until September 1997.

The Mars Polar Lander ceased communication on 3 December 1999 prior to reaching the surface and is presumed to have crashed. The European Beagle 2 lander deployed successfully from the Mars Express spacecraft but the signal confirming a landing which should have come on 25 December 2003 was not received. No communication was ever established and Beagle 2 was declared lost on 6 February 2004. The proposed 2009 British Beagle 3 lander mission to search for life, past or present, was not adopted.

The American Mars Exploration Rovers Spirit and Opportunity were launched in June and July 2003. They reached the Martian surface in January 2004 using landers featuring airbags and parachutes to soften impact. Spirit ceased functioning in 2010, more than five years past its design lifetime. As of 13 February 2019, Opportunity was declared effectively dead, having exceeded its three-month design lifetime by well over a decade. The U.S. spacecraft Phoenix successfully achieved soft landing on the surface of Mars on 25 May 2008, using a combination of parachutes and rocket descent engines.

Mars Science Laboratory, which carried the rover Curiosity, was launched by NASA on 26 November 2011. It landed in the Aeolis Palus region of Gale Crater on Mars on 6 August 2012.

China launched the Tianwen-1 mission, on 23 July 2020. It includes an orbiter, a lander and a 240 kilograms rover. The orbiter was placed into orbit on 10 February 2021. The Zhurong successfully soft landed on 14 May 2021 and deployed on 22 May 2021.

Martian moons
While several flybys conducted by Mars orbiting probes have provided images and other data about the Martian moons Phobos and Deimos, only few of them intended to land on the surface of these satellites. Two probes under the Soviet Phobos program were successfully launched in 1988, but in 1989 the intended landings on Phobos and Deimos were not conducted due to failures in the spacecraft system. The post-Soviet Russian Fobos-Grunt probe was an intended sample return mission to Phobos in 2012 but failed after launch in 2011.

In 2007 European Space Agency and EADS Astrium proposed and developed the mission to Phobos to 2016 with lander and sample return, but it stayed as a project. Since 2007 the Canadian Space Agency has considered a mission to Phobos called Phobos Reconnaissance and International Mars Exploration (PRIME), which would include an orbiter and lander. Recent proposals include a 2008 NASA Glenn Research Center Phobos and Deimos sample return mission, the 2013 Phobos Surveyor, and the OSIRIS-REx II mission concept.

The Japanese Aerospace Exploration Agency (JAXA) plans to launch the Martian Moons Exploration (MMX) mission in 2024, a sample return mission targeting Phobos. MMX will land and collect samples from Phobos multiple times, along with deploying a rover jointly developed by CNES and the German Aerospace Center (DLR). By using a corer sampling mechanism, the spacecraft aims to retrieve a minimum of 10g of samples. MMX will return to Earth in 2029.

Titan

The Huygens probe, carried to Saturn's moon Titan by Cassini, was specifically designed to survive landing on land or on liquid. It was thoroughly drop-tested to make sure it could withstand impact and continue functioning for at least three minutes. However, due to the low-speed impact, it continued providing data for more than two hours after it landed. The landing on Titan in 2005 was the first landing on the planet's satellites outside the Moon.

The proposed U.S. Titan Mare Explorer (TiME) mission considered a lander that would splash down in a lake in Titan's northern hemisphere and float on the surface of the lake for few months. Spain's proposed Titan Lake In-situ Sampling Propelled Explorer (TALISE) mission is similar to the TiME lander but has its own propulsion system for controlling shipping.

Comets and asteroids
Vesta, the multi-aimed Soviet mission, was developed in cooperation with European countries for realization in 1991–1994 but canceled due to the Soviet Union disbanding. It included a flyby of Mars, where Vesta would deliver an aerostat (balloon or airship) and small landers or penetrators, followed by flybys of Ceres or 4 Vesta and some other asteroids with the impact of a large penetrator on one of them.

The first landing on a small Solar System body (an object in the Solar System that is not a moon, planet, or dwarf planet) was performed in 2001 by the probe NEAR Shoemaker at asteroid 433 Eros despite the fact that NEAR was not originally designed to be capable of landing.

Japanese Hayabusa probe made several attempts to land on 25143 Itokawa in 2005 with mixed success, including a failed attempt to deploy a rover. Designed to rendezvous and land on a low-gravity body, Hayabusa became the second spacecraft to land on an asteroid, and in 2010 the first sample return mission from an asteroid.

The Rosetta probe, launched 2 March 2004, put the first robotic lander Philae on the comet Churyumov–Gerasimenko on 12 November 2014. Due to the extremely low gravity of such bodies, the landing system included a harpoon launcher intended to anchor a cable in the comet's surface and pull the lander down.

JAXA launched the Hayabusa2 asteroid space probe in 2014 to deliver several landing parts (including Minerva II and German Mobile Asteroid Surface Scout (MASCOT) landers and a Small Carry-on Impactor (SCI) penetrator) in 2018–2019 to return samples to Earth by 2020.

The Chinese Space Agency is designing a sample retrieval mission from Ceres that would take place during the 2020s.

Mercury
Launched in October 2018 and expected to reach Mercury in December 2025, ESA's BepiColombo mission to Mercury was originally designed to include the Mercury Surface Element (MSE). The lander would have carried a 7 kg payload consisting of an imaging system (a descent camera and a surface camera), a heat flow and physical properties package, an alpha particle X-ray spectrometer, a magnetometer, a seismometer, a soil penetrating device (mole), and a micro-rover. The MSE aspect of the mission was cancelled in 2003 due to budgetary constraints.

Moons of Jupiter
A few Jupiter probes provide many images and other data about its moons. Some proposed missions with landing on Jupiter's moons were canceled or not adopted. The small nuclear-powered Europa lander was proposed as part of NASA's Jupiter Icy Moons Orbiter (JIMO) mission that was canceled in 2006.

ESA launched the Jupiter Icy Moon Explorer (JUICE) mission in 2023. In addition, NASA offered the ESA the opportunity to design a lander or impactor to fly alongside NASA's proposed orbiter in the Europa Clipper mission planned for 2025. As Europa is hypothesized to have water beneath its icy surface, missions are sent to investigate its habitability and assess its astrobiological potential by confirming the existence of water on the moon and determining the water's characteristics.

Deep Space 2
The Deep Space 2 impactor probe was to be the first spacecraft to penetrate below the surface of another planet. However, the mission failed with the loss of its mother ship, Mars Polar Lander, which lost communication with Earth during entry into Mars' atmosphere on 3 December 1999.

Deep Impact
Comet Tempel 1 was visited by NASA's Deep Impact probe on 4 July 2005. The impact crater formed was approximately 200m wide and 30–50m deep, and scientists detected the presence of silicates, carbonates, smectite, amorphous carbon and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.

Moon Impact Probe
The Moon Impact Probe (MIP) developed by the Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO), India's national space agency, was a lunar probe that was released on 14 November 2008 by ISRO's Chandrayaan-1 lunar remote sensing orbiter. Chandrayaan-1 was launched on 22 October 2008. It led to the discovery of the presence of water on the Moon.

LCROSS
The Lunar Crater Observation and Sensing Satellite (LCROSS) was a robotic spacecraft operated by NASA to perform a lower-cost means of determining the nature of hydrogen detected at the polar regions of the Moon. The main LCROSS mission objective was to explore the presence of water ice in a permanently shadowed crater near a lunar polar region. LCROSS was launched together with the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) on 18 June 2009, as part of the shared Lunar Precursor Robotic Program. LCROSS was designed to collect and relay data from the impact and debris plume resulting from the launch vehicle's spent Centaur upper rocket stage striking the crater Cabeus near the south pole of the Moon. Centaur impacted successfully on 9 October 2009, at 11:31 UTC. The "shepherding spacecraft" (carrying the LCROSS mission payload) descended through Centaur's plume of debris, and collected and relayed data before impacting six minutes later at 11:37 UTC. The project was successful in discovering water in Cabeus.

MESSENGER
The NASA MESSENGER (Mercury Surface, Space Environment, Geochemistry, and Ranging) mission to Mercury launched on 3 August 2004 and entered orbit around the planet on 18 March 2011. Following a mapping mission, MESSENGER was directed to impact Mercury's surface on 30 April 2015. The spacecraft's impact with Mercury occurred near 3:26pm EDT on 30 April 2015, leaving a crater estimated to be 16m in diameter.

AIDA
The ESA's AIDA mission concept would investigate the effects of impact crashing a spacecraft into an asteroid. The DART spacecraft impacted asteroid 65803 Didymos's moon Dimorphos in 2022, and the Hera spacecraft will arrive in 2027 to investigate the effects of the impact.

title: Lander (spacecraft)


text:
Vega program

The Vega program (Вега) was a series of Venus missions that also took advantage of the appearance of comet 1P/Halley in 1986. Vega 1 and Vega 2 were uncrewed spacecraft launched in a cooperative effort among the Soviet Union (who also provided the spacecraft and launch vehicle) and Austria, Bulgaria, France, Hungary, the German Democratic Republic, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and the Federal Republic of Germany in December 1984. They had a two-part mission to investigate Venus and also flyby Halley's Comet.

The flyby of Halley's Comet had been a late mission change in the Venera program, following on from the cancellation of the American Halley mission in 1981. A later Venera mission was canceled and the Venus part of the Vega 1 mission was reduced. Because of this, the craft was designated VeGa, a contraction of Venera and Gallei (Венера and Галлей respectively, the Russian words for "Venus" and "Halley"). The spacecraft design was based on the previous Venera 9 and Venera 10 missions.

The two spacecraft were launched on 15 and 21 December 1984, respectively. With their redesignated dual missions, the Vega probes became part of the Halley Armada, a group of space probes that studied Halley's Comet during its 1985/1986 perihelion.

The Vega spacecraft
Vega 1 and Vega 2 were identical sister ships developed from the earlier Venera craft. They were of the 5VK type, designed by Babakin Space Center and constructed by Lavochkin at Khimki. The craft were powered by twin large solar panels and instruments included an antenna dish, cameras, spectrometer, infrared sounder, magnetometers (MISCHA), and plasma probes. The 4,920 kg craft were launched by a Proton 8K82K rocket from Baikonur Cosmodrome, Tyuratam, Kazakh SSR (current Kazakhstan). Both Vega 1 and Vega 2 were three-axis stabilized spacecraft. The spacecraft were equipped with a dual bumper shield for dust protection from Halley's comet.

Bus Instruments

 * imaging system
 * infrared spectrometer
 * ultraviolet, visible, infrared imaging spectrometer
 * shield penetration detector
 * dust detectors
 * dust mass spectrometer
 * neutral gas mass spectrometer
 * APV-V plasma energy analyzer
 * energetic-particle analyzer
 * magnetometer
 * wave and plasma analyzers

The Venus mission
Vega 1 arrived at Venus on 11 June 1985 and Vega 2 on 15 June 1985, and each delivered a 1500 kg, 240 cm diameter spherical descent unit. The units were released some days before each arrived at Venus and entered the atmosphere without active inclination changes. Each contained a lander and a balloon explorer.

Descent craft
The landers were identical to that of the previous five Venera missions and were to study the atmosphere and surface. Each had instruments to study temperature and pressure, a UV spectrometer, a water concentration meter, a gas-phase chromatograph, an X-ray spectrometer, a mass spectrometer, and a surface sampling device.

The Vega 1 lander's surface experiments were inadvertently activated at 20 km from the surface by an especially hard wind jolt, and so failed to provide results. It landed at 7.5°N, 177.7°E.

The Vega 2 lander touched down at 03:00:50 UT on 15 June 1985 at 8.5° S, 164.5° E, in eastern Aphrodite Terra. The altitude of the touchdown site was 0.1 km above the planetary mean radius. The measured pressure at the landing site was 91 atm and the temperature was 736 K. The surface sample was found to be an anorthosite-troctolite. The lander transmitted data from the surface for 56 minutes.

Payload

 * Meteocomplex T,P sensors
 * Sigma-3 gas chromatograph
 * LSA particle size spectrometer
 * IFP aerosol analyzer
 * VM-4 hygrometer
 * ISAV-A nephelometer/scatterometer
 * Malakhit-V mass spectrometer
 * ISAV-S UV spectrometer
 * GZU VB-02 drill + BDRP-AM25 soil X-ray fluorescence spectrometer
 * GS-15-STsV gamma ray spectrometer
 * PrOP-V penetrometer
 * MSB small solar batteries

Balloon
The two balloon aerobots were designed to float at 54 km from the surface, in the most active layer of the Venusian cloud system. The instrument pack had enough battery power for 60 hours of operation and measured temperature, pressure, wind speed, and aerosol density. The balloon envelopes were surfaced with polytetrafluoroethylene to resist attack by the corrosive atmosphere. Both Vega-1 and Vega-2 balloons operated for more than 46 hours from injection to the final transmission.

The balloons were of spherical superpressure types of 3.54 m diameter, filled with helium. A gondola assembly weighing 6.9 kg and 1.3 m long was connected to the balloon envelope by a tether 13 m long. Total mass of the entire assembly was 21 kg.

The top section of the gondola assembly was capped by a conical antenna 37 cm tall and 13 cm wide at the base. Beneath the antenna was a module containing the radio transmitter and system control electronics. The lower section of the gondola assembly carried the instrument payload and batteries.

The instruments consisted of:
 * An arm carrying thin-film resistance thermometers and a velocity anemometer. The anemometer consisted of a free-spinning plastic propeller, whose spin was measured by LED-photodetector optointerrupters.
 * A module containing a PIN diode photodetector to measure light levels and a vibrating-quartz-beam pressure sensor.
 * A package at the bottom carrying the batteries and a nephelometer to measure cloud density through light reflection.

The small low-power (5 watt) transmitter only allowed a data transmission rate of 2,048 bit/s, though the system performed data compression to squeeze more information through the narrow bandwidth. Nonetheless, the sampling rate for most of the instruments was only once every 75 seconds. The balloons were tracked by two networks (20 radio telescopes total) back on Earth: the Soviet network, coordinated by the Soviet Academy of Sciences, and the international network, coordinated by Centre national d'études spatiales of France (CNES).

The balloons were pulled out of the lander at 180,000 ft above the planet's darkside surface, and fell to 164,000 ft ASL while they were being inflated. After that, they rose to 177,000 ft and stabilized. At this altitude, pressure and temperature conditions of Venus are similar to those of Earth at 18,000 feet MSL (5,5 km), though the planet's winds move at hurricane velocity, and the carbon dioxide atmosphere is laced with sulphuric acid, along with smaller concentrations of hydrochloric and hydrofluoric acid.

The balloons moved swiftly across the night side of the planet into the light side, where their batteries finally died, and contact was lost. Tracking indicated that the motion of the balloons included a surprising vertical component, revealing vertical motions of air masses that had not been detected by earlier probe missions.

The Halley mission
After their encounters, the Vega motherships were redirected to intercept Comet Halley, utilizing the gravity of Venus to alter their trajectory.

Vega 1 made its closest approach on 6 March, around 8,890 km from the nucleus, and Vega 2 made its closest approach on 9 March at 8,030 km. The data intensive examination of the comet covered only the three hours around closest approach. They were intended to measure the physical parameters of the nucleus, such as dimensions, shape, temperature, and surface properties, as well as to study the structure and dynamics of the coma, the gas composition close to the nucleus, the dust particles' composition and mass distribution as functions of distance to the nucleus, and the cometary-solar wind interaction.

In total Vega 1 and Vega 2 returned about 1,500 images of Comet Halley. Spacecraft operations were discontinued a few weeks after the Halley encounters.

The on-board TV system was created in international cooperation of the scientific and industrial facilities from the USSR, Hungary, France, and Czechoslovakia. The TV data was processed by an international team, including scientists from the Soviet Union, Hungary, France, East Germany, and the United States. The basic steps of data acquisition and preprocessing were performed in IKI using an image processing computer system based on a PDP-11/40 compatible host.

Vega 1 and Vega 2 are currently in heliocentric orbits.

title: Vega program


text:
Talk:Safari (web browser)

Inclusion of details about releases only available under NDA
The article currently contains details about pre-release "seed" builds of Safari. It links to connect.apple.com as a source for information about this build. The page containing this information states: Warning: Pre–release software is Apple confidential information. Your unauthorized distribution of pre–release software or disclosure of information relating to pre–release software (including the posting of screen shots) may subject you to both civil and criminal liability and result in immediate termination of your ADC Membership.

Providing information about each pre-release build is also of highly questionable valuable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.119.251.140 (talk) 5 March 2008 06:12 UTC (UTC)

Failure to adopt modern standards
The "Failure to adopt modern standards" section has 2 sources. One is now out of date and includes a correction in one place. The other source deals with Apple's policy of forcing browser on iOS to use webkit, the rendering engine Apples develops for Safari. This section should either include more recent evidence of Apple's poor support of standards, possibly plus some text indicating specific standards that they either implemented late or have not implemented. Or if the issue is mainly about refusing to allow another web rendering engine on iOS, then it should be titled differently, and perhaps expand upon why it's valuable to allow competing engines.Rjjiii (talk) 02:41, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:10, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * IEMac icon.png

Good article
This article is quite flawed, and IMO worse than Google Chrome, which is C-class. Hopefully editors can help fix this, otherwise I doubt it'll last very long (though I've complained before about the ever-stricter interpretation of GA and FA criteria, so I don't have the heart to nominate it for GA review). The writing quality and sourcing just aren't on par. Seemingly random articles were added as citations, that have nothing to do with the material they're supposed to verify. DFlhb (talk) 05:46, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

 * @DFlhb Hi, thanks for your contributions to the article! I was the GA reviewer before. I agree it wasn't perfectly reviewed (first time I did a GA review), letting another editor do a a 2nd review would be fine. Or maybe just delist as it is now.

 * Though, I disagree about your removal of the security exploits being indiscriminate information. It was based on good sources by Ars Technica, which is not routine coverage. It would be fine to not add the entire paragraph back as it was, but at small section discussing the Pwn2Own stuff would be good in my view, since the researchers like Charlie Miller are notable. The Google Chrome article you list also has a section dedicated to vulnerabilities, next to its security architecture (this article should also have such a section imo). PhotographyEdits (talk) 12:27, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Here's why I think security exploits are routine, and it misleads readers to emphasise them:
 * Throughout Safari's existence, there have been 91 (WebKit) + 1,122 (Safari itself) = 1,213 security exploits that are as severe, or more severe, than the one Charlie Miller found (CVSS score >4). Chrome had 2,361. Windows 10 had 2,314. Android had 3,721. macOS had 641. iOS had 2,446.
 * Individual exploits are routine. But even then, these numbers can't tell us which OS or browser is more, or less, secure. If a platform (or app) has more users, intelligence agencies and hackers pay higher prices for exploits, so researchers focus on finding exploits in those platforms. Zerodium pays $1m for Windows exploits, 500k for Chrome exploits, $100k for Safari exploits, and $50k for macOS or Linux exploits. So smaller platforms don't get the same scrutiny. Zerodium (and many others) buy these exploits, and re-sell them to governments and rival corporations, which use the exploits and keep them secret, so none of them are included in the numbers above (until found by a white hat hacker and disclosed publicly rather than sold).
 * There are likely hundreds of major exploits in every app you use, they're just hard to discover, and those professionals whose job it is to discover them can make more money selling them to hackers than disclosing them to Apple/Google to fix. I doubt it could be more routine (and I'd remove it from the Chrome article too). DFlhb (talk) 13:33, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @DFlhb Fair, good arguments! I agree then, but it would still make sense to at least put the total number of disclosed vulnerabilities in the article, I think that CVE details is a good enough source for a single number. This should then also be listed in the other browser articles, so readers could compare them. PhotographyEdits (talk) 13:46, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Folks, bear in mind that reliable sources inform what is WP:DUE for inclusion. If Ars Technica made a mountain out of a molehill, that would be unfortunate, but I'm not sure whether that means we can ignore the coverage? Robby.is.on (talk) 13:53, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @Robby.is.on Yes, that's basically what I was arguing for, but I also think we can put that same information in a broader context by putting the total amount of vulnerabilities in it. How about we first list the total amount and then highlight that a single was found during a competition by a well known researcher? PhotographyEdits (talk) 14:01, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Sure, per WP:VNOT, and WP:NOTNEWS. It also fails the WP:10YT: that exploit was breaking news, and then no one continued to talk about it. It was fleeting.
 * And @PhotographyEdits, the problem with listing the total amount is that again, it would misinform readers. The only thing they could conclude from that number, is that it's correlated with how secure or insecure something is, but the number can't tell you that at all; it has no informational value. Besides, it would be a primary source. No reliable secondary source covers the total number, because they know it's irrelevant. If we can find browser developers (even competitors) who claim Safari is less secure, or who have evaluated its security measures, that would be due, because it wouldn't be routine coverage. DFlhb (talk) 14:09, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @DFlhb That's not true, check this book from 2016 here. PhotographyEdits (talk) 14:13, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * @DFlhb I found quite a nice source here, which even has a graph in it. I would argue that it is acceptable per Wikipedia policy to use this books as a source in combination with a primary source to update that number to 2022. PhotographyEdits (talk) 14:56, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Nice! That's a good source, because it's high-level (instead of focusing on one vulnerability) and contains expert analysis. We should cover it. I'll try to find more security experts that analyse the subject in depth, and that don't just talk about one incident. DFlhb (talk) 15:06, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I just found this. He's a security researcher, so it's usable as a source despite being primary (as long as we attribute it), but unfortunately most of the article is about Firefox. But there's a paragraph about Safari, with two links we could use.
 * I also found this, about Safari. WebKit has a Just-in-time compiler, so it seems that it has write xor execute permissions for memory, which makes it more secure. But that's WP:OR, since the article doesn't say it outright; it's about macOS. I'll try to find a better source. DFlhb (talk) 15:34, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * A primary source from a researcher can only be used if they are a subject matter expert and their research in the relevant field has been published by WP:RS. Those articles look nice, would be great if we can use them. PhotographyEdits (talk) 15:39, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Also: if we cannot use it as a reliable source, it could be included in a "further reading" section. They don't have the same strict requirements. PhotographyEdits (talk) 15:41, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Good work, you two! :-) Robby.is.on (talk) 15:20, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * 😀 Thanks! DFlhb (talk) 15:35, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Safari (web browser)


text:
Simone Beck

Simone "Simca" Beck (7 July 1904 – 20 December 1991) was a French cookbook writer and cooking teacher who, along with colleagues Julia Child and Louisette Bertholle, played a significant role in the introduction of French cooking technique and recipes into American kitchens.

Early life
Beck was born on 7 July 1904, in Tocqueville-en-Caux, near Dieppe in Normandy. Her family was rich because they had a business in production of Bénédictine liqueur. When she was little, she liked helping her family cook to prepare desserts or entire meals.

In 1923, at her parents' urging to marry, she wed Jacques Jarlaud. After surviving a car crash in 1928, she worked for four years bookbinding and being a sales representative, where she met her second husband. In 1933, at the end of her marriage with Jacques Jarlaud, she applied to the Le Cordon Bleu school in Paris.

In 1936, Beck met Jean Victor Fischbacher. After marrying him in 1937, she kept her maiden name as a pen name and professionally, but used her husband's name socially.

Cooking career
The start of Beck's professional career as a cook and teacher was after World War II, and after joining Le Cercle des Gourmettes, an exclusive women's culinary club. She became involved in the world of cooking. She was inspired to write a cookbook for Americans by Louisette Bertholle and Fischbacher.

The first attempt at writing a cookbook wasn't successful, so Beck and Bertholle published the brief What's Cooking in France? in 1952. After that Beck published a booklet Le pruneau devant le fourneau: Recettes de cuisine (ca. 1952), Beck's only publication in French. In 1949, after she had met Julia Child, she became inspired to write a French cookbook for Americans again. She, Child, and Bertholle together wrote Mastering the Art of French Cooking, which was published in 1961. Mastering the Art of French Cooking, Vol. II (without Louisette Bertholle) followed in 1970, elaborating on several subjects (particularly baking and charcuterie) that the authors felt had received insufficient coverage in the first volume.

Both Bertholle and Child became members of Le Cercle des Gourmettes. After three years, the three women formed l'École des trois gourmandes to give lessons in French cooking to American women who lived in Paris. This school had been working up to the late 1970s. While Child became a successful television chef in the United States, Beck continued her teaching practice at home. In 1972 she published her own cookbook, Simca's Cuisine (with Patricia Simon), using some of the recipes that had not been mentioned in her previous books with Child and Bertholle. In 1979, she published the second volume, New Menus from Simca's Cuisine, with Michael James, who was her student, friend, and assistant since the 1970s. Food and Friends: Recipes and Memories from Simca's Cuisine, her autobiography and last cookbook (with Suzy Patterson), was published in 1991, the year she died.

Death
Simone Beck died on Friday, December 20, 1991, at her home in Châteauneuf-de-Grasse, a small village near Nice. She was 87. Her cousin, Harold Earle said she had been having heart problems for several months and had stopped eating; he stated, "The doctor said that because she wouldn't eat, she died".

In popular culture

 * Beck was portrayed by American actress Linda Emond in the 2009 film Julie & Julia.
 * Beck was portrayed by Isabella Rossellini in the 2022 comedy television series Julia.

title: Simone Beck


text:
Talk:February 17

I do not believe a "Caitlin Sutton's" birthday is particularly news worthy, especially when it's put with no year before the year 1500 Battle of Hemmingstedt -- Alison —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.60.91.189 (talk) 16:49, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Marian Anderson was born on the 27th, not the 17th. -- Zoe

Could someone please verify the 2006 events entry. I heard nothing in the news about it. ~jazzdude

Why revert the 2009 entry? The WikiProject prohibits the posting of speculation on future events, but the television transition is at this point not speculation. The only thing left to happen is for the date to actually pass. - Cg-realms (talk) 02:09, 4 January 2008 (EST)
 * The date articles are meant to list events of the past. It is speculation until it actually happens.  Scheduled or not, it is a future event and therefore does not belong.  Another thing is that events can't be judged as globally notable until after they have taken place.  They are not historically significant until they are history.  For all we know there might be some massive uprising that causes the event to be delayed.  -- Mufka (u) (t) (c) 20:53, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

There is a reference to Ford Model-T in the year 1972. This might supposed to be the year 1927. Can someone check the reference? --130.207.87.197 (talk) 20:43, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

"Now Kosovo is a free country. Kosovo is not Serbia!" It does not sound very "encyclopedic" to me! --GVasil (talk) 13:24, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It has been changed back already. Lectonar (talk) 14:08, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Sino-Vietnamese War
I think that the beginning of the Sino-Vietnamese War, which started 30 years ago in 1979, is a much more important event than any of those currently listed. See these articles commemorating the event. DHN (talk) 18:47, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Date of Noah's Flood
Removed this: "In Christianity, this is the predicted date for the beginning of the flood, of Genesis", which is referring to Genesis 7:11: "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened." (Per King James Bible in Wikisource - http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Bible_(King_James)/Genesis#Chapter_7 ) This is misleading and badly linked: The date given in the Bible text is of the "actual" rather than "predicted" date, and the link is to flood (about floods in general), rather than to the better Great_Flood_(Biblical). But more importantly, the authors of Genesis would not have been using the modern Gregorian calendar, so the date referred to would presumably have been the 17th of Iyar. (See http://www.google.com/search?q=noah+iyar )-- Writtenonsand (talk) 16:35, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

President's day?
Isn't presidents day on the 17th? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickmxp (talk • contribs) 11:49, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Not every year. Presidents' day is always the third Monday in February. Sometimes this is the 17th. Not always.

Birth and death entries
Continuing the ongoing effort to reduce the size of the Births and Deaths sections to make them manageable, I'm removing celebrities with few or no articles in other wikipedias, moving the entries to the appropriate Year in Topic article if they were not already present. This is in accordance with the guidelines. Deb (talk) 11:09, 30 July 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:February 17