text:
Talk:Harbour

First comments
Harbours aren't just in cities, surely? What would be a better way of saying this?? Nevilley 11:35 Jan 21, 2003 (UTC)

Mention "natural harbours" too. -- Tarquin 11:49 Jan 21, 2003 (UTC)

Erm and at the risk of asking a really stupid question, are they always coastal? Can you have an inland harbour on a river etc?? Not in the UK (I think) but I wondered about elsewhere ... Nevilley 16:51 Jan 21, 2003 (UTC)
 * ah - already dealt with, I see! :) Nevilley
 * It seems to have disappeared again; and it's an interesting question

 * There are ports not on the coast; Manchester, Bruges, Houston spring to mind, but they aren’t necessarily harbours;

 * There are harbours on lakes (Jinga, Kigowa), but maybe lakes also have coasts.

 * A harbour on a navigable river could fit the bill (Manaus? Vicksburg? Aswan? Belgrade? Basle?)

 * How about a place with "harbour" in the name, but not even on water (like Cold Harbor, Virginia)? Swanny18 (talk) 16:35, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

"During the D-Day operations of 1944, two artificial harbours (codenamed Mulberry) were built just off the invasion beaches."

Do we really need a mention of the Normandy Phoenixes used for Operation Overlord here? I'm a nut for WWII History, but that doesn't really seem relevant, especially where its placed now in the introduction. If nobody objects, I'll remove it. If someone wants to put a link to that improvised structure in the notable harbour section near the bottom of the article, I think it would be better placed. RudyB 23:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Spelling
Erm ... in light of the most recent edit, clearly we need to decide whether we're using British spelling (harbour) or American (harbor). Are there any guidelines about this? The Singing Badger 17:02, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Well because the page title is using American spelling perhaps it should use American spelling of "harbour" as "harbor". Or if there is a concensis move this page to make the page title use British spelling. -- 203.220.170.102 12:31, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I think this page SHOULD be moved to conform not only to the spelling on the page, but also to the majority of contributors to this page, who insist on using British spelling. -- AxSkov 13:08, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * It's a stub article, let us give it some time to get expanded a bit before we try and settle out the spelling issues. In general, I don't care what the article name is or the spelling convention, as long as we remember to keep the native spelling for actual places.  For example, for American areas it will always be (for example) Copper Harbor, Michigan and not "Copper Harbour", likewise, it should always be "Sydney Harbour" and not "Sydney Harbor".  Ahh, the joys of multiple spellings.  -- Kaszeta 13:28, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Why not use both spellings for the page name such as Harbour, Harbor or Harbour/Harbor (not sure if this is allowed) to keep everyone happy. This could be applied to the other pages with similar regional variations (ie. colour, honour, organisation, etc). Just a suggestion. -- 203.164.184.20 01:04, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Largest Harbours
Did anyone notice how Rotterdam is said to have 137 million tons/year handled which is smaller then even the 11th port listed there? I have also seen conflicting listings which show quite different figures for the busiest ports. Shall I update them accordingly?

Secondly, I find the term "largest harbours" confusing, because it seems to be suggesting physical size rather then in terms of port activity, especially when the "natural harbours" subsection is actually refering to area. Shall I reconfigure the tables and call it "Busiest Harbours (or Habors)" instead?--Huaiwei 10:33, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Found the original data, quoted the source, and moved to port -Hlaw 18:02, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Is there a source for Sydney's claim for the lagest nautral harbour ? A casual look on a map suggests that Dunedin Harbour which, including Port Chalmers, runs the whole lenth of the Otago Peninsula seems to be a strong candidate. Having traveled by boat along both of these I know that it took a great deal longer to reach the sea from leaving Dunedin than it did to reach Manley from Sydney. Velela 14:56, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * The Kaipara Harbour in the far north of New Zealand is larger still (about five times the size of Sydney's, IIRC). It's a natural harbour that is rarely used by boats, though, and has no large towns close to it. Grutness|hello? [[Image:Grutness.jpg|25px|]]

 * I wonder that Puget Sound doesn't enter into this discussion. It is a well sheltered arm of the sea, 90 miles long, with several important port facilities, (Everett, Edmonds, Seattle, Tacoma, Bremerton, and Olympia, all in the state of Washington) and many minor ones, a long fjord, Hood Canal, and several inlets. In point of use, Hampton Roads is the world's most important harbor. Too Old 21:52, 2005 May 15 (UTC)

 * The San Francisco Bay is a natural harbor an order of magnitude or two larger in area than Sydney Harbor. Gentgeen 21:25, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Many fjords are a lot larger than Sydney Harbor - Trondheimsfjord, Oslofjord are just two examples. Orcaborealis 20:00, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Largest harbour reprise
We don't actually need to establish which is the largest natural harbour in order to disprove the claim that it is Port Jackson/Sydney Harbour. According to its Wikipedia article, San Francisco Bay has a surface area of 1040 to 4160 square kilometres, depending on exactly how you count it. According to its article, Port Jackson has a surface area of 55 square kilometers. No contest on size then. I can see no reason that would exclude SFB from being a natural harbour whilst not excluding PJ; both are largely surrounded by land; both have relatively narrow entrances; both are used as places of shelter by commercial and naval shipping; both contain major port areas.

So I think I've proven that the claim that Port Jackson is the world's largest working natural harbour is wrong; I shall remove it from the article. -- Chris j wood 17:09, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

The definitiion of harbour seems a little vague everywhere - i can't really see why the mediteranean isn't technically a harbour also - but what is certainly true is that Sydney Harbour is colloquially known as the largest in the world - other articles such as Natural harbor (and many more) have a consensus that this is the case. I've edited the section also because to say that two places claim the title, then give such disparate areas devalues the whole article anyway...... I'd love to hear more discussion on what 'counts' as a harbour or not - I actually arrived here trying to work out why Pittwater and Port Stephens (two more New South Wales bodies of water that open to the sea - one larger than Port Jackson) don't seem to count in 'largest harbour' lists....... Petesmiles 23:16, 7 October 2005 (UTC) 23:10, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
 * The Sydney claim was discussed (briefly) at Talk:Port Jackson. We did not think the claim should remain on the article page and removed it.  I have modified the content here also.--A  Y  Arktos 11:37, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Scenery
Actually, is this section really contributing to the article? To be honest, it sounds a tad trival to me (and I actually worry that every folk is going to add in their own definitions of what's considered a "beautiful" harbour!).--Huaiwei 13:04, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I think's it's pointless too. The Singing Badger 15:11, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * As far as I know there are several natural harbours that are famous around the world as tourist destinations. An example would be Sydney, with the Opera House and the Bridge.  Perhaps the Lower New York Bay in New York / New Jersey, with the Statue of Liberty is also a good example. -- 15:28, December 8, 2004 (UTC)

 * Moved the scenary section below. Many famous tourist cities have harbours (and other facilities). Seems no point to plug in tourism ads in every article describing the functions of facilities there. -Hlaw 18:02, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Natural harbours can be scenically attractive tourist destinations. A notable example is Victoria Harbour in Hong Kong. The best view is from Victoria Peak on Hong Kong Island.

Merge from Natural harbor
I have proposed the merge from Natural harbor as I think the separate article adds no information and there seems no reason to develop two separate articles.--A Y  Arktos 11:41, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree. I can't see any reason for them to be seperate articles. Hegar 15:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
 * In the absence of any objections I will merge--A Y  Arktos 23:29, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Move
Please do not move this to Harbour (haven). Haven is implied in the standard English usage of this word and thus this article should remain at the standard title. pschemp | talk 23:40, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Harbour


text:
Talk:CS gas

Contact Lenses
Does anyone have a source for this statement : Furthermore, individuals who are exposed to CS Gas should not have contact lenses in their eyes, since exposure to the gas causes the lens to fuse to the cornea of the eye.

Since I researched it and find no evidence of this at all, in fact several sites mention that you should remove and wash or discard them as the gas can build up behind them and cause irritation and blindness. But nowhere does it mention that they can fuse to the cornea. As a scientist, this seems pretty damn unlikely too. More likely a myth.

Sources that refute this statement

http://www.actionmedics.org.uk/prepare.html

Contact Lens Complications: Etiology, Pathogenesis, Prevention, Therapy By Hans-Walter Roth - ISBN: 1588901327

62.31.122.158 (talk)

Having been sprayed with a 3% CS spray myself, while wearing contact lenses, I can say this is not the case. It sounds like the sort of scare stories about non-lethal options like tasers and water cannons which get spread by people with bad intentions, and believed by the ignorant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.143.146.90 (talk) 15:07, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

 * It appears that most of the sources end up pointing back at a reported quote from a protester (end of article) http://rawstory.com/news/2008/100_protesters_arrested_in_Denver_hit_0826.html 86.169.63.204 (talk) 18:22, 23 May 2016 (UTC)

England & Wales?
The article excludes Scotland for some reason, even though police forces there issue CS Spray. Why has it been left out? Also, the article mentions the term "CS gas" is a misnomer, but it is used elsewhere in the article in reference to CS Spray - should these be changed? Any objections, answers or comments, let me know. Ben 20:14, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Correct Version Edited
I have edited this page to show accurately what CS Incapacitant Spray is. I am a Police Officer and what was originally wrote here is mostly a confusing combination between Tear gas and CS Spray which are two entirely different things, therefore the edited version seeks to re-dress this issue and correct the myth.

Best wishes!
 * That is all well and good but there was a lot of useful CS gas information that has been deleted by this user. SeanMack 15:47, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

 * In response to the above, the information was deleted as it was inaccurate information with regard to what CS Spray was. The deleted information related to Tear Gas and not CS Spray (Gas) therefore meaning that it does not belong in this article. The remaining information is accurate and does relate to CS Spray and therefore was kept.
 * The article is CS Gas not CS Spray! On many ocassion canisters of CS gas where dispersed into crowds in Northern Ireland, this accurate and factual information was removed. This feels to me like POV pushing. Are you stating that the CS Gas article should not have historical and factual information about CS gas canister use in crowd control? SeanMack 17:31, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * There is no such thing as CS Gas! CS are solid crystals and do not turn into gas (the CS cannisters contain a propellant of spray to force the crystals out onto target areas). The gas cannisters used in Northern Ireland contained Tear Gas for crowd control which again means that it has no place for this article - Tear Gas and CS Spray are two different things. Try not to get confused.(Darktrial 17:44, 16 February 2006 (UTC))

If I am confused, it appears I am not alone, please see this note from Hansard, where the venerable Dr Reid refers to your non-existing CS gas:, and here, the guardian, no less. You do agree that "Tear Gas" exists, one form of which is CS tear gas. In many instances this has been shortened to CS gas. This article talk page is named CS gas - what does that tell you? I would ask you to go to this web page for example and do a search for "CS gas". Yes there is a semantic issue here, but that is all the more reason to fully detail the natures of tear gas (CS based) and the spray form. The Wikipedia article on Riot control agents refers to CS, CN and CR as gases. No these are not gases in the classic sense - but it is how these compounds are known in common parlance. It is dissapointing that you chose to remove relevant information rather than give it a deserved place in the article. I assume you have heard of Porton Down, perhaps this [http://www.google.com.au/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLG,GGLG:2005-37,GGLG:en&q=%22CS+gas%22+porton+down. google search ] will help. Finally I would quote from a report from the Medical Toxicology Unit, London: CS causes a burning sensation in the eyes and is a potent lacrimator, but generally does not cause irreversible eye effects. Duration of aerosol induced irritation is usually 5–15 minutes after removal from exposure. Respiratory effects include coughing, bronchoconstriction, and change in the frequency and depth of breathing.

Parneix-Spake et al reported cases of CS spray causing erythematous dermatitis and allergic contact dermatitis with vesicles, keratitis, blisters and crusts, accompanied by pronounced oedema.7 Onset occurred 12 hours to three days after exposure. Varma and Holt report a case of severe contact dermatitis.10 Further case reports record delayed effects with various types of dermatitis and blisters.

No deaths have been attributed to CS. However, Hu et al reported that inhalation of high concentration CS could result in chemical pneumonitis and fatal pulmonary oedema. However, the LD50 of inhaled CS gas has been estimated at 25 000 to 150 000 mg/m3—that is, a dose many times greater than the exposure dose that produces intolerable symptoms in humans. No site decontamination other than ventilation is necessary after use of CS aerosol because CS dispersed in air quickly loses potency.

Kind regards. SeanMack 18:38, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I have taken on your criticisms of the article and have completely re-written it - please have a look and add or change anything that you deem improves the article. Regards SeanMack 18:38, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
 * If you were able to get a photo of the spray - that would be an excellent addition to the article. Cheers SeanMack 19:09, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Question?
What is the actual name for the gas known as "vomit gas"? It's simmilar to tear gas, but causes nausea instead. // Liftarn There are various "vomit" gases: Adamsite (DM), diphenylchloroarsine (DA) & Diphenylcyanoarsine (DC), to name but 3 I could find. SeanMack 14:15, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

How did it get it's name?
Does anybody out there know how CS gas got the name CS? I always assumed it was short for the chemical name, but the article says the chemical name is chlorobenzylidene malonitrile... so what does "CS" actually mean?

Also, is this verified? It's actually illegal to use CS in warfare, but still legal to use in crowd control? How's that for irony--Pariah 06:06, Mar 22, 2005 (UTC)

This chemical compound was first isolated in 1928 and is named for the men, Corson and Stoughton, who first developed its active ingredient. This ingredient, 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile is mixed with other chemicals to turn it into a gas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.11.162.250 (talk) 08:03, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Irrelevant section
I removed:

''Chlorobenzene, was described by Dr Raymond McClean1 as “a well known industrial poison which could cause damage to the brain, the liver and the kidneys”. Another of its components, malonic acid, has caused fatalities in industry. ''

as it is irrelevant. Chlorobenzene and malonic acid are different chemicals to CS gas. Carbon and nitrogen, don't forget, form a rather nasty chemical when combined - compounds are very often very different to their constituents. Dan100 (Talk) 13:40, July 29, 2005 (UTC)
 * Fair enough I guess, although irrelevant is a personal judgement call. When I put the info in, I was thinking along the lines of effects on the body of related chemical combinations. I thought some people may have been interested in the fact that Chlorobenzene and malonic acid are closely related to CS and are themselves pretty toxic. For example the article in the external link I added treats the irritants Cs, Cn, Cnc, Ca, Cr, Cnb, PS together. However if the article is to focus solely on CS then the info does not need to be there. I fixed the notes though which you'd not updated. Cheers SeanMack 14:33, 29 July 2005 (UTC).
 * Thanks. Dan100 (Talk) 10:11, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

It is not a question of personal judgement - it is a question of chemistry. You will recognise that the "closely related" chemicals common salt, chlorine and sodium have rather different effetcs when ingested.81.170.62.51 22:51, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

CS gas is actually named after its two American inventors, B. Carson and R. Staughton who developed it in 1928. Cheers, Robert —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.231.223.181 (talk • contribs).

Good Article stamp of approval

 * What makes a good article?
 * A good article shares many characteristics with featured articles, and like featured content it must:

 * be well written

yes
 * be factually accurate

Don't know anything about CS gas myself so I can't really say, but the references seem to be from pretty in-the-know sources.
 * use a neutral point of view

yes
 * be stable

I see no conflicts
 * be referenced

Nice inline citations and plenty of references here
 * wherever possible, contain images to illustrate it. The images should all be appropriately tagged.

 Looks good
 * Good articles may not be as thorough and detailed as our featured articles, but should not omit any major facets of the topic.

If you ask me, the article seems to be mostly about how CS has been used over time and all the situations its caused, is there anything more you can find on how exactly it was created and how their reaserch proceeded until it was in its compleated form?

Yay! Homestarmy 17:12, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I dont believe this article is written from a neutral point of view. (See below). The tone is US/UK centric.SuperFluid 21:24, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Non-lethal?
I have read elsewhere in Wikipedia land that using a rhetorical device as a category title is not good style. Perhaps this should be changed to Toxicity? Mr Christopher 19:22, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I changed that title. Feel free to change it to something better but I think we should avoid using a rhetorical question as a title.  Mr Christopher 16:50, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Dosage and tolerance
When I was in training as an NBC instructor in the Swedish armed forces (during 2003) we were told that a concentration of CS agent in the air of 1,2 mg per cubic meter was the limit of "human tolerance" (implying that a person will be unable to perform or resist at this level). We were also recommended to use a concentration of 200-400 mg of the agent per cubic meter for educational and testing purposes (carried out while wearing protective equipment and to illustrate to recruits the value and reliability of the equipment supplied to them). My question is: is this true for the actual CS levels or just a standard for the agent we used?

UK / US Use
"Notably the CS spray used by UK police has 5 times as much CS as the spray used by American police forces (5% dissolved CS and 1% CS respectively). [27]"

I would dispute this. Each individual US police agency has its own purchasing mandate and officer use everything from CS in a 1% right the way through to a 10% solution, as well as OC (Pepper), PAVA, and hybrids (5%OC5%CS etc).

"The forces that do use the PIS in the UK require that police constables should themselves be sprayed with a 3% dissolved CS"

Again not true. Officers are sprayed with the same product as they carry.

 * It would be good to be able to add this to the article, can you provide references for this information? Ta. SeanMack 12:55, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Officers are not sprayed with the same dosage. In Scotland for example, officers are sprayed with a 3% concentrate rather than 5 % and it is not the same as the spray they carry as it is in an aerosol version rather that a single spray. User:Duffit 17:32, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Vietnam Section
The estimate "15 million pounds" is entirely compatible with "thousands of tons" (1 thousand tons == 2 million pounds) but the writing here makes it sound like the two measurements are at odds.

I changed this ("15 million pounds" to "seven and a half thousand tons") to make it more readable/understandable, but my edit was reverted because it supposedly added incorrect information. I guess I should have gone through the proper channels before submitting an edit...

Should it change pounds to tons (second number), or tons to pounds (first number)? Balrogthane (talk) 13:32, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Please see my comment on your IP address page. Nice to see you've registered. Welcome! TINY  MARK  16:52, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Marked claim of US use in Vietnam as citation needed, despite extensive research i have been unable to find a credible first hand source confirming this claim. As such i believe section should be at lest rewritten to reflect the dubious nature of this claim if not deleted entirely. sept 2013 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.208.196.50 (talk) 08:19, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

Iraq?
The line "Saddam used CS against the Kurds"...

We know he gassed them...but it wasnt with CS. I believe that is wrong and should be removed. FireBadger 20:05, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi FireBadger, I've looked into a bit - at least at what's easily available online, you have a point in that it could be worded better. Iraq used CS against the Iranians as opposed to the Kurds . However it is reported that: "a biological agent, aflatoxin, was used in CS gas" in Halabja. SeanMack 11:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree that this part should be changed. The line that says "Saddam used CS...in his own country" has a blatant US politically centric tone. Governments all around the world use CS gas "in their own countries" all the time. It is commonly used by police worldwide. The entire section should be removed, unless every instance of CS use around the globe is going to be listed.SuperFluid 21:21, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

GA sweeps review
Re-reviewing this article in accordance with WikiProject Good Articles' sweeps review process. The article continues to meet the GA criteria, and will be kept. I made a few minor changes to the reference and formatting structure, adding some details. Editors might want to review WP:CITE for tips on keeping references formatted and looking clean. The external links section is also getting a little long, so you might want to consider pruning it a bit in accordance with WP:EL. The lead section could also use a little expansion, though it's sufficient, it could use more details on some of the uses and other aspects. See WP:LEAD.

Cheers! Dr. Cash 19:57, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

criteria
Why do some countries have their own subjects and others not? In the US CS gas is used, but the country is very large and the usage is not so common comparatively. In Palestine CS gas is used at least every week, more likely a few times a week, in many places. Usage in israel is given a sentence while the US is given a subject. I'm not trying to say that this should be reversed, just what is the criteria why some countries have large sections and others almost none? 213.6.5.208 22:20, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Believe it or not, Wikipedia isn't actually a US conspiracy. The English Wikipedia attracts vastly more American editors than any other nationality, so it's hardly surprising that US angles are covered more comprehensively than others. Add well-sourced Palestinian info and it will likely remain in the article. Chris Cunningham 22:48, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

The name of CS Gas
I am slightly concerned at it being called CS Gas as it isn't technically a gas. Police forces in the uk call it CS spray. Was wondering if this could be looked at?

Removed reference to NYPD
Having worked as a street medic and Emergency Medical Technician for some years in NYC, I can confirm that the NYPD does not use CS gas. This isn't to say there isn't some stockpiled somewhere, but police officers will often say, "We don't use teargas," when asked about it. Since the NYPD is notable for its not using CS gas in situations comparable to where other police forces have, I thought it was inappropriate to use them as the example.

Typically, the NYPD doesn't use CS gas because they have a much larger police force than most cities (allowing them to make arrests or use OC spray rather than CS), and because NYC's population density ensures that there would be many third parties affected by CS. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.152.153.66 (talk) 18:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Automatic addition of "class=GA"
A bot has added class=GA to the WikiProject banners on this page, as it's listed as a good article. If you see a mistake, please revert, and leave a note on the bot's talk page. Thanks, BOT Giggabot (talk) 05:03, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Immunity
The article makes no mention of immunity to this substance. Some people are immune to the effects of CS, or suffer greatly reduced symptoms. In my own military training, I was able to breathe CS normally and function with open eyes in a gas hut full of the stuff, while other trainees were unable to breathe at all. The only noticeable effect was a slight warming of the skin as though in sunlight. An instructing NCO informed me that in any given group of 50 or 60 trainees, there was usually one or two who displayed immunity. Obviously my personal experience and hearsay of that NCO is no reference, but I assume such could be found? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.188.147.34 (talk) 09:25, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I saw basically the same thing. One guy was immune and showed no reaction. We had to test the leak rate of or equipment and after that the brave ones (stupid!) took of they gas masks and all but one had to leave due to severe reactions. The guy was running in the CS for 5 minutes and came out with the rest of us. --Stone (talk) 15:23, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Anecdotal, but I confirm that the same happened to me. It actually saved our belongings (and maybe life) as (civilian variety) CS gas was used on me during robbery. Zezen (talk) 11:47, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

Some answers about the origin of the designations for chemical agents
It seems there are uncited claims on Wikipedia about the origin of the military designations CS, HS, SK, etc. I've found this source which attributes SK to "South Kensington" and HS to "Hun Stuff" - does anyone have more sources that clarify these designations? IsaacAA (talk) 20:59, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

Why is this included?
Under the "Use" section, this sentece appears: Domestic police use of CS is legal in many countries, however, as the Chemical Weapons Convention prohibits only military use.

And under the section dealing with the US, this sentence appears: CS gas has been banned by international treaty in warfare since the 1997 Chemical Weapons Convention, and the United States is a signatory to this treaty. However CS can and is used against its own citizens by local police forces without restriction.

THe construction of the second quote seems to insinute that the US allows the use of CS gas in violation of international agreements, while the first quote shows this to be untrue. Additionally, no other section about national usage makes mention of that nation's status relative to the international agreement in question. Why is the US singled out in this regard? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.109.49.200 (talk) 21:58, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Uncited anecdotes do not constitute encyclopaedic entries
On the UK section, the last two paragraphs have been written and left uncited, apart from a footnote saying they come from the contributors personal experience. If the events in Essex are in fact reported in the "Illford Recorder", then why can they not be cited?

OK, following the above, these entries have been deleted: "In 2005, a student from Mayfield School in Essex, used CS gas inside the school. Several students were taken to A&E, but all survived. The remaining students of the school were held in classrooms and halls, until it was confirmed by the local police and firefighters that the scene was safe. The event was reported only in a local newspaper, the Ilford Recorder.

In October 2009 CS Gas was used by police outside the BBC headquarters in West London during protests against the British National Party and the appearance of Nick Griffin on Question Time (TV series). Victims were blinded for 5 minutes, but burning persisted for at least an hour. Mild nausuea and facial inflammation persists for several hours."

No citation, apart from "contributor's personal experience". I frankly call into question the honesty of someone attempting to silence a democratic political party, but more than that, "original research" (if it can be called that) isn't acceptable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.143.146.103 (talk) 17:13, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Why?
Why have the section on Israel and the Category Chemical weapons been removed, without explanation? Vernon White '''. . . Talk''' 19:10, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
 * The Israel section has been reverted by another editor. I have reverted the Category:Chemical weapons tag. Vernon White  . . . Talk 08:09, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

IUPAC name
Is that the real IUPAC name? Because malononitrle is not used and should be propanedinitrile, and there is a double bond.--Mikespedia is on Wikipedia! 10:26, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Relevance of details?
In the section about use in israel, it's mentioned that Jawaher Abu-Rahma was repoted to be killed by the gas. Doesn't this part belongs to the "toxicity" section? also - what is the relevance of mentioning her brother which was killed by the hit of the canister (and therefore is irrelevant to the subject. Personally, I read this as a cheap emotional writing, which is not supposed to be in an encyclopedia. Wamit (talk) 20:24, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

 * I took the liberty to correct these flaws. Wamit (talk) 20:41, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Nonsensical Statements on CS Gas Dispersion with Dichloromethane?
"In the Waco Siege, CS was dissolved in the organic solvent dichloromethane (also known as methylene chloride). When the volatile dichlormethane evaporated, the CS crystallized with the dichloromethane molecules as an aerosol.[1]"

The last part of the second sentence makes no sense to me. How would CS "crystallize with the dichloromethane molecules as an aerosol"? I read the source and I feel I can offer a more clear explanation (not that it should matter much but I am a chemist).

How about: "The solution was dispersed as an aerosol via explosive force and when the highly volatile dichloromethane evaporated, CS crystals precipitated and formed a fine dispersion in the air."

Or something similar? I think that describes the situation more accurately.

JohnnyTopQuark (talk) 07:01, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds reasonable to me. I've changed the text as you suggested and if someone feels it could be said better - let them go ahead and improve. Materialscientist (talk) 07:12, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

References for British Armed Forces CS gas training
The references (currently 36 and 37) for the use of CS in British Armed Forces training do not support the statements in this article. The first deals exclusively with the use of CS in US military training in Ohio; the second reference does not specify whether recruits were required to remove their masks (or any other part of their suits) for exposure to CS gas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miracleworker5263 (talk • contribs) 04:57, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

Good article?
This article hasn't been reviewed since 2007 and doesn't leap out as being of GA standard. --John (talk) 16:05, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

this article could benefit from the inclusion of the use of 87 CS projectiles in Hong Kong in Sept 28, 2014, by the police against unarmed and peaceful demonstrators demanding democratic elections. the CS gas cannisters and content used were purchased from CHEMRING, a british weapons manufacturer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.61.242.190 (talk) 22:22, 6 November 2014 (UTC)

If it was a good article it would explain the mechanism action of CS gas, but it does't. 82.55.73.243 (talk) 21:21, 9 June 2020 (UTC)

Clarification, please
The article says, "Members of the United States armed forces are exposed to CS during initial training, and during training refresher courses or equipment maintenance exercises..." I'm curious as to what "equipment maintenance exercises" means and how often it's done. I know that troops are supposed to check their equipment, such as protective masks, at least monthly, but does that mean that they do the chamber training every month? Also, an article in the External Links section (http://www.readperiodicals.com/201110/2485901761.html) says that "Army personnel repeat this training annually and immediately before military deployments." Should this be mentioned in the article? Finally, I apologize if I'm being morbid, but I'm curious. I know they're exposed to the CS, but do the troops have to breathe in the CS during the refresher courses, equipment maintenance exercises, annual refresher, and pre-deployment training, or is that just during the initial training? Evernut (talk) 14:23, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Looking at the phrase "equipment maintenance exercises" again, I'm guessing it refers to things such as learning to use the hydration port, using decontamination wipes on the face and mask, etc. I'm still curious about the other things, though. I'm just trying to understand what I've read. Evernut (talk) 21:51, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 10:39, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Merger proposal
I am proposing that the article CS gas (data page) be merged here because it is, uh, a stub that doesn't seem to have any chances on its own. I mean, the two articles are on the same topic and it doesn't seem like either one is too long. I will leave this merger proposal alone for other editors to discuss; I'm probably too busy doing CV work and eleminating stubs. --littleb2009 (she/her) (talk • contribs) 20:04, 17 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment. Clear content fork. Are there any useful data in the infobox at the data page that aren't already included in the infobox in the main article? I haven't checked, but if not, this should just be PRODed. If there is any useful information though, I support the merge. Mdewman6 (talk) 07:28, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Comment. Hello! Correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like the content is already in the main CS page. I support the merge. 20:54, 13 November 2021 (EST)

 * Temporal WP:DPCLEANUP aims to clean up these data pages (upgrade or delete). This seems to interfere with this individual merge proposal (CS gas (data page)). Anyway cleanup is ontr its way. -DePiep (talk) 16:11, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

IT IS NOT A GAS, CHANGE IT
As above, it's not a gas, it's an aerosol, the facts matter peeps 92.19.193.42 (talk) 21:24, 23 March 2022 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:CS gas


text:
Talk:Stethoscope

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Peer reviewers: LauraBou.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 10:13, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

remove the reference for the Magna Fortis Stethoscope
Please remove the reference for the Magna Fortis Stethoscope at the bottom of your page. This is a scam. Allnurses.com had a review of the business fraud issues (google stethoscopes.com fraud and you will see). Or go to BBB web site and look up the 31 complaints unresolved over the past year. Philo Calhoun MD —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.45.9.253 (talk) 11:43, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * NOT TRUE! I provided ALL transaction records, and WA State AG found NO evidence of any fraud. Unfortunately, I was unable to function to provide customer service during my cancer treatment, arrangements to cover for me were inadequate. I returned to Seattle,WA incapacitated from chemotherapy and proton radiation in Houston, TX, with dyspnea, pain, and constant internal bleeding, and pain from soft tissue necrosis, collateral to radiation procititis, and other etiologies. I lost $2-million business, home, and marriage, and my reputation was damaged. I am terribly sorry for any complaints. 23 (of 31 complaints in total 15 years) were during an unexpectedly prolonged absence for a life-threatening illness, life-changing circumstances, three small children; and ongoing medical recovery processes, and treatments I could not have anticipated. To my knowledge, all complaints were resolved by replacement, refund, or bank card charge back. I survived a broken neck, cancer, slander, and spurious (false) legal charges. If any one still has any unresolved claim, or grievance please let me know: I responsible, and anxious to resolve any outstanding issues. Sincerely, Marc Werblud: axonano@gmail.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stethoscope Test (talk • contribs) 02:56, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Old business
Charlotte,

I deleted the letter posted by David Ruben since it was something I had typed into his talk page, not realizing that it would be posted publicly. When I realized that it was public, I deleted it, and then David posted it here. This was the error of a neophyte, and I removed it for privacy reasons. I then posted a note to David on his own talk page to explain the deletion, and he has respected my request thus far to leave it unpublished. I provide below, the note to David that you will find on his Talk page, for your reference.

I thus respectfully request that you do not revert this article. It serves no particular purpose currently. At such time that I have carefully educated myself on the rules of this community, I may choose to post something for discussion, should I feel that I have a meritorious argument that does not violate the spirit of Wikipedia, and that certain external links are of use to readers and do not detract from the encyclopedic nature of Wikipedia.

Until then, if you would respect the privacy of this author and not revert a previously deleted entry, your undestanding would be much appreciated.

Sincerely,

Audio2000

Below, the posting on David's Talk page, for your reference:

''David,

Thanks for the education on Wikipedia policy. I am working through the referenced documents to gain a better understanding. Wikipedia is a treasure of cumulative human knowledge. Far be it from me to detract from that. What I am grappling with is how to avoid commercialism, but still provide a societal benefit by listing certain links. The last thing we'd want is the commercialization and debasement of Wikipedia. However, sometimes commercial links empower readers to efficiently act on knowledge learned, and given the layout of any given page, it would seem possible to do without detracting from the encyclopedic goals of the entries. But I will study the rules of the game before further participation in it.

(I have removed specific references in this and a Talk posting for privacy reasons. Hope you don't mind. As a neophyte, I was not looking to publicly post certain information, and did so in error. I would be interested in chatting with you, if you would be kind enough to email your contact information to me.)

Once again, please forgive me if any entries or edits are in violation of a Wikipedia policy. ''

 * I concur - if a new user posts something that they wish to have removed and, as in this case, are seeking now to further acquaint themselves with wikipolicies before further participation, then reasonable for their revert to remain. I hope this user, who clearly has detailled knowledge of the subject, later rejoins us in helping to develop the content of this page. David Ruben Talk 01:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Features
So, what features make a good stethoscope good? --Una Smith (talk) 04:47, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure if that is not simply a matter of taste. Some are aesthetically more pleasing (I was once ridiculed for using a brightly red stethoscope), some detect subtle sounds (e.g. the notoriously subtle mitral stenosis murmur) more accurately, some are easier to handle (swapping between bell and diaphragm). Some will swear by an amplifier stethoscope (I haven't used one, and can't presently afford one). JFW | T@lk  09:02, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Laennec
Anyone aware of an online reproduction of Laennec's original work? JFW | T@lk  09:02, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

 * gives a fairly recent (1997) review of auscultation of the lungs. JFW | T@lk  09:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Cleanup from merges
This is from Sonicaid:

 * ''A sonicaid is a listening device used in the care of pregnancy. Using a highly sensitive microphone the sound of the fetal heartbeat can be amplified and monitored using a small loudspeaker.

 * Before the widespread use of sonicaids, and still in many poorer countries, a fetal stethoscope was used. One great advantage of the sonicaid is the loudspeaker, allowing people other than the midwife or doctor using the device to listen to the heartbeat.  Some medical practitioners prefer to continue using a fetal stethoscope instead of the electronic device.

 * Sonicaids are made by different companies with different specifications, most having a digital display that show the heart rate in beats per minute.''

This needs checking; is the "sonicaid" in fact a digital sound recording device, or a Doppler ultrasound instrument? --Una Smith (talk) 16:13, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

 * "Sonicaid" is the brand name of a product line of Doppler ultrasound instruments. --Una Smith (talk) 16:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I would add a little more on the fetal stethoscope and more information regarding the history and background of it. But overall good work! --LauraBou (talk) 02:19, 17 March 2017 (UTC)Laura Bou

Importance?
I'd argue that this article is of Top Importance by the guidelines laid out, which state "Subject is extremely important, even crucial, to its specific field. Reserved for subjects that have achieved international notability within their field." I'm relatively sure that Stethoscopes are well-known internationally as vital tools for doctors.. '''CycloneNimrod''' (talk) 18:40, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Obsolescence?
I was hearing on the news a while back that doctors were now using mp3 players against the chest to record the sound of the heart making for a recording which was actually clearer than what you can hear through a stethoscope. I'll have a look around for an article about it, but it would seem important to note. --Shadebug (talk) 03:41, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

 * times online article about it There are plenty of others, just google stethoscope mp3 player --Shadebug (talk) 03:48, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Authorized Purchasers?
I was informed that the purchase of stethescopes is controlled by the US Food and Drug Administration and local ordinances.

Gil (talk) 18:32, 28 January 2010 (UTC)

Rene Laenec
Rene Laenec invented the stethoscope —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.215.137.219 (talk) 05:15, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Vuvuzela stethoscope
Can the vuvuzela be mentioned as a cheaper alternative than buying regular stethoscopes ? Appearantly, the form of the horn is nearly perfect, meaning that it would yield a more efficient stethoscope at a lower price. This, since they're mass-produced for use in soccer stadiums (despite that it causes permanent hearing damage), and they're cheap (2€, ie via vuvuzelahoorn.nl, ...) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.182.227.212 (talk) 12:32, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

stethoscope "review"
From the article: "A recent independent review evaluated twelve common acoustic stethoscopes on the basis of loudness, clarity, and ergonomics. They did acoustic laboratory testing and recorded heart sounds on volunteers. The results are listed by brand and model. [7] Eli Finkelstein (2008-07-01). "The Ultimate Acoustic Stethoscope Review". Retrieved 2010-01-25." WHY is this in the article? Is it an advertisement for the review website? Why is the result of the review not listed? Either these statements should be expanded to include the methodology and results, or they should be removed from this article. --74.179.121.65 (talk) 14:51, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Citation needed about acoustic quality of stethoscope prior to 1999
"One problem with acoustic stethoscopes was that the sound level was extremely low. This problem was surmounted in 1999 with the invention of the stratified continuous (inner) lumen, and the kinetic acoustic mechanism in 2002." Where can one read more about this? Mr Killian (talk) 10:38, 20 January 2018 (UTC)

Types of Diaphams
Could someone add a section going into detail about the uses for different diaphragm types (eg corregatted vs smooth vs bell)? Would also be interesting (although maybe a different page) to explain the mechanisms which give them their characteristics. Leucadian (talk) 13:42, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Mention if the average public would want one
Mention if the average public would want to have one in their house, like they do a fever thermometer. Jidanni (talk) 01:43, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Littman section is oddly long
When I googled to find this Wikipedia page, it turned out that a Littman got a lot of the top results, suggesting aggressive SEO.

And guess what? The section in this article for Littman's advances in stethoscope are oddly detailed compared to the rest of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.93.238.153 (talk) 11:32, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Stethoscope


text:
Blackcurrant

The blackcurrant (Ribes nigrum), also known as black currant or cassis, is a deciduous shrub in the family Grossulariaceae grown for its edible berries. It is native to temperate parts of central and northern Europe and northern Asia, where it prefers damp fertile soils. It is widely cultivated both commercially and domestically.

It is winter hardy, but cold weather at flowering time during the spring may reduce the size of the crop. Bunches of small, glossy black fruit develop along the stems in the summer and can be harvested by hand or by machine.

The raw fruit is particularly rich in vitamin C and polyphenols. Blackcurrants can be eaten raw but are usually cooked in sweet or savoury dishes. They are used to make jams, preserves, and syrups and are grown commercially for the juice market. The fruit is also used to make alcoholic beverages and dyes.

Description
Ribes nigrum is a medium-sized shrub, growing to 1.5 by. The leaves are alternate, simple, 3 to 5 cm broad and long with five palmate lobes and a serrated margin. All parts of the plant are strongly aromatic. The flowers are produced in racemes known as "strigs" up to 8 cm long containing 10–20 flowers, each about 8 mm in diameter. Each flower has a hairy calyx with yellow glands, the five lobes of which are longer than the inconspicuous petals. There are five stamens surrounding the stigma and style and two fused carpels. The flowers open in succession from the base of the strig and are mostly insect pollinated, but some pollen is distributed by the wind. A pollen grain landing on a stigma will germinate and send a slender pollen tube down the style to the ovule. In warm weather this takes about 48 hours but in cold weather it may take a week, and by that time, the ovule may have passed the stage where it is receptive. If fewer than about 35 ovules are fertilised, the fruit may not be able to develop and will fall prematurely. Frost can damage both unopened and open flowers when the temperature falls below -1.9 °C. The flowers at the base of the strig are more protected by the foliage and are less likely to be damaged.

In midsummer the strigs of green fruit ripen to edible berries, very dark purple in colour, almost black, with glossy skins and calyxes at the apex (the calyxes being persistent), each containing many seeds. An established bush can produce about 4.5 kg of fruit each year.

Plants from Northern Asia are sometimes distinguished as a separate variety,, of which R. cyathiforme is considered a synonym.

Phytochemicals
Polyphenol phytochemicals present in the fruit, seeds and leaves, are being investigated for their potential biological activities. Major anthocyanins in blackcurrant pomace – delphinidin-3-O-glucoside, delphinidin-3-O-rutinoside, cyanidin-3-O-glucoside, and cyanidin-3-O-rutinoside, which are retained in the juice concentrate – are among other polyphenols.

Distribution and habitat
The blackcurrant is native to northern Europe and Asia.

Cultivation

Cultivation in Europe is thought to have started around the last decades of the 17th century.

Site selection and planting
Blackcurrants can grow well on sandy or heavy loams, or forest soils, as long as their nutrient requirements are met. They prefer damp, fertile but not waterlogged ground and are intolerant of drought. Although the bushes are winter hardy, frosts during the flowering period may adversely affect the yield and cold winds may restrict the number of flying insects visiting and pollinating the flowers. A soil pH of about 6 is ideal for blackcurrants and the ground can be limed if the soil is too acidic. Planting is usually done in the autumn or winter to allow the plants to become established before growth starts in the spring, but container-grown stock can be planted at any time of year.

Two-year-old bushes are usually planted but strong one-year-old stock can also be used. Planting certified stock avoids the risk of introducing viruses. On a garden scale the plants can be set at intervals of 1.5 to 1.8 m or they can be set in rows with planting intervals of 1.2 m and row separations of 2.5 m or more. In the UK, young bushes are generally planted deeper than their initial growing level to encourage new stems to grow from the base.

Manures and fertilizers
The blackcurrant requires a number of essential nutrients to thrive; nitrogen provides strong plant growth and stimulates the production of flower sprigs; phosphorus aids growth, the setting of fruit and crop yield; potassium promotes growth of individual shoots and increases the weight of individual fruits; magnesium is a constituent of chlorophyll and helps increase yields through interaction with potassium; calcium is required for cell division and enlargement and is particularly important for young plants and buds.

An annual spring mulch of well rotted manure is ideal and poultry manure can also be used but needs prior composting with straw or other waste vegetable material. Spent mushroom compost can be used but care should be taken as it often contains lime and blackcurrants prefer slightly acidic soils. The blackcurrant is a gross feeder and benefits from additional nitrogen, and phosphatic and potash fertilisers should also be applied annually. A balanced artificial fertilizer can be used and a 10-10-10 granular product can be spread around the bushes at the rate of 100 to 240 g per plant. Weed growth can be suppressed with an organic mulch such as sawdust, bark, mushroom compost or straw, heavy plastic topped with an organic mulch cover or landscape fabric.

Pruning
Blackcurrant fruit is borne primarily on one-year-old shoots. Newly planted bushes should be pruned severely, cutting all shoots back to two buds above ground level. This gives the plant a chance to get properly established before needing to put its energy into producing fruit. The general rule when pruning is to remove all weak shoots and those growing out sideways which may get weighed down when fruiting. The remaining branches should be thinned to remove old unproductive wood and to encourage new shoots. An established bush should not be allowed to become overcrowded and should have about one third of its main branches or stems removed each year. When harvesting by machine, plants with an upright growth habit are encouraged.

Harvesting
On a garden scale, the berries should be picked when dry and ripe. Commercially, most harvesting is done mechanically by straddle harvesters. These move continually down the rows, straddling a row of bushes, shaking the branches and stripping off the fruit. The blackcurrants are placed into half tonne bins and to minimise stoppage time, some machines have cross conveyors which direct the fruit into continuously moving trailers in the adjoining row. A modern machine can pick up to fifty tonnes of blackcurrants in a day using only one operator and two tractor drivers. The bins should be stored in a cool place. Some fruit is still picked by hand for use in the fresh fruit market.

Diseases and pests
Ribes plants are susceptible to several diseases and a number of insect pests. However, new varieties have been or are being developed to overcome some of these problems.

Reversion is a serious disease transmitted by the blackcurrant gall mite (Cecidophyopsis ribis). It causes a decline in yield and is quite widespread in Europe but is rarely encountered on other continents. Symptoms include a modification of leaf shape in summer and swollen buds ("big bud") in winter, each housing thousands of microscopic mites. As pest control has limited effectiveness, severely infected bushes should be destroyed. All new plants purchased should be certified as virus-free.

White pine blister rust (Cronartium ribicola) needs two alternate hosts to complete its life cycle. One host is plants in the genus Ribes. On the blackcurrant, it causes the leaves to become pale and later develop tiny orange pustules and sometimes a yellow filamentous coating on some leaves. The fruit crop is little affected but the leaves fall early and growth is slowed the following year. The other host is any of the white pines, in which it causes serious disease and mortality for the North American species that have not co-evolved with the rust. As a result, the blackcurrant was banned in the United States as a disease vector for much of the 20th century, and even after the federal ban was lifted in 1966, several U.S. states continued their own bans, some of which remain in force as of August 2021. The effectiveness of these restrictions is questionable, since other Ribes species also host the disease, some are native to North America, and others such as red currants and Ribes uva-crispa were never banned.

American gooseberry mildew and powdery mildew can infect the leaves and shoot tips, and botrytis may cause the fruit to rot in a wet season. Currant and gooseberry leaf spot (Drepanopeziza ribis) is another disease of blackcurrants, but it is not usually a serious problem as most cultivars now have some resistance.

The blackcurrant leaf midge can cause browning, crimping and distortion of leaves at the tips of shoots but it is seldom a serious problem. The blackcurrant sawfly (Nematus ribesii) lays its eggs on the underside of the leaves and the voracious larvae work their way along the shoots, stripping off leaf after leaf. In a serious attack, the bush can be denuded of leaves. Larvae of the currant borer drill their way along the centres of shoots, which wilt and die back. Other insect pests include scale insects, aphids and earwigs.

Research and cultivars

There are many cultivars of blackcurrant. 'Baldwin' was the mainstay of the industry for many years but it has now largely been superseded by more productive and disease-resistant varieties. During the 20th century in Europe, much hybridisation work has been carried out in order to reduce the plant's susceptibility to disease and frost and also to increase yields. This effort centered mainly in Scotland, Poland, and New Zealand.

In Britain the Scottish Crop Research Institute was tasked with developing new varieties suitable for growing in the north of the country. They produced new cultivars that had greater cold tolerance, especially in the spring, ripened earlier and more evenly and had greater fungal disease resistance. Frost tolerance was improved by selecting for late flowering and genetic research identified genes involved in resistance to gall mite and the blackcurrant reversion virus. 'Ben Lomond' was the first of the 'Ben' varieties and was released in 1975. This was followed by several other cultivars for the juicing industry such as 'Ben Alder' and 'Ben Tirran'. The cultivar 'Ben Hope' was released in 1998 with increased tolerance to gall mite, and in the same year, 'Ben Gairn' became available. It shows resistance to the reversion virus. For gardeners and the pick-your-own market, 'Ben Sarek', 'Ben Connan' and 'Big Ben' were introduced and have large, sweet berries. The cultivars 'Ben Connan' and 'Big Ben' have gained the Royal Horticultural Society's Award of Garden Merit. and new varieties are being developed continually to improve frost tolerance, disease resistance, machine harvesting, fruit quality, nutritional content and fruit flavour.

Varieties producing green fruit, less strongly flavoured and sweeter than typical blackcurrants, are cultivated in Finland, where they are called "greencurrants" (viherherukka). In Poland, the Research Institute of Horticulture has done work on improving the blackcurrant with regard to disease and pest resistance, fruit quality, adaptations to local conditions and mechanical harvesting. Researchers have crossed various varieties and introduced inter-specific genetic material from the gooseberry (Ribes grossularia), the redcurrant (Ribes rubrum) and the flowering currant (Ribes sanguineum). The resulting offspring were further back-crossed to R. nigrum. Cultivars produced include 'Tisel' and 'Tiben' in 2000 and 'Ores', 'Ruben' and 'Tines' in 2005. Further cultivars 'Polares' and 'Tihope' are being tested. Since 1991, New Zealand has become an important centre for research and development, as its temperate climate is particularly suitable for cultivation of the crop. Breeding programmes are concentrating on yield, large fruit size, consistency of cropping and upright habit.

In North America, there is a need for this fruit to have resistance to white pine blister rust. New cultivars such as 'Crusader', 'Coronet' and 'Consort' have been developed there by crossing R. nigrum with R. ussuriense and these show resistance to the disease. However the quality and yield of these varieties are poor as compared to non-resistant strains and only Consort is reliably self-fertile. Back-crossing these varieties to a parent have produced new strains such as 'Titania' that have a higher yield, better disease resistance, are more tolerant of adverse weather conditions and are suitable for machine harvesting. Two new releases from a black currant breeding program in British Columbia, Canada, 'Blackcomb' and 'Tahsis', were selected for their immunity to white pine blister rust and their frost tolerance.

Nutrition
Raw blackcurrants are 82% water, 15% carbohydrates, 1% protein and 0.4% fat (table). Per 100 g serving providing 63 kilocalories, the raw fruit has high vitamin C content (218% of the Daily Value, DV) and moderate levels of iron and manganese (12% DV each). Other nutrients are present in negligible amounts (less than 10% DV, table).

Blackcurrant seed oil is rich in vitamin E and unsaturated fatty acids, including alpha-linolenic acid and gamma-linolenic acid.

History
Decoction of the leaves, bark or roots was used as a traditional remedy.

During World War II, most fruits rich in vitamin C, such as oranges, became difficult to obtain in the United Kingdom. Since blackcurrant berries are a rich source of the vitamin, and blackcurrant plants are suitable for growing in the UK climate, the British Government encouraged their cultivation and soon the yield of the nation's crop increased significantly. From 1942 onwards, blackcurrant syrup was distributed free of charge to children under the age of two. This may have given rise to the lasting popularity of blackcurrant as a flavouring in Britain. In Britain the commercial crop is completely mechanised and about 1,400 hectares of the fruit are grown, mostly under contract to the juicing industry. Commercially, most large-scale cultivation of blackcurrants is done in eastern Europe for the juice and juice concentrate market. , major cultivation efforts to improve fruit characteristics occurred in Scotland, New Zealand, and Poland.

Blackcurrants were once popular in the United States as well, but became less common in the 20th century after currant farming was banned in the early 1900s, when blackcurrants, as a vector of white pine blister rust, were considered a threat to the U.S. logging industry. The federal ban on growing currants was shifted to the jurisdictions of individual states in 1966, and was lifted in New York State in 2003 through the efforts of horticulturist Greg Quinn. As a result, currant growing is making a comeback in New York, Vermont, Connecticut, California, and Oregon. However, several statewide bans still exist. Since the American federal ban curtailed currant production nationally for nearly a century, the fruit remains largely unknown in the United States and has yet to regain its previous popularity to levels enjoyed in Europe or New Zealand. Owing to its unique flavour and richness in polyphenols, dietary fibre and essential nutrients, awareness and popularity of blackcurrant is once again growing, with a number of consumer products entering the U.S. market.

Culinary
The fruit of blackcurrants when eaten raw has a strong, tart flavour. It can be made into jams and jellies which set readily because of the fruit's high content of pectin and acid. For culinary use, the fruit is usually cooked with sugar to produce a purée, which can then be passed through muslin to separate the juice. The purée can be used to make blackcurrant preserves and be included in cheesecakes, yogurt, ice cream, desserts, sorbets, and many other sweet dishes. The exceptionally strong flavour can be moderated by combining it with other fruits, such as raspberries and strawberries in summer pudding, or apples in crumbles and pies. The juice can be used in syrups and cordials. Blackcurrants are a common ingredient of rødgrød, a popular kissel-like dessert in North German and Danish cuisines.

Blackcurrants are also used in savoury cooking. Their astringency creates added flavour in sauces, meats and other dishes. Blackcurrants are included in some unusual combinations of foods. They can be added to tomato and mint to make a salad. Blackcurrants may accompany roast beef, grilled lamb, duck, seafood and shellfish. Canvasback duck with blackcurrants was a delicacy in nineteenth century New York. They can provide a dipping sauce at barbecues. They can be blended with mayonnaise, and used to invigorate bananas and other tropical fruits. Blackcurrants can be combined with dark chocolate or added to mincemeat in traditional mince pies at Christmas.

Japan imports US$3.6 million of New Zealand blackcurrants for uses as dietary supplements, snacks, functional food products and as quick-frozen (IQF) produce for culinary production as jams, jellies or preserves.

Beverages
The juice forms the basis for various squashes, juice drinks, and smoothies. In Britain, 95% of the blackcurrants grown are used to manufacture Ribena (a brand of fruit juice whose name is derived from Ribes nigrum) and similar fruit syrups and juices. Macerated blackcurrants are also the primary ingredient in the apéritif, crème de cassis, which in turn is added to white wine to produce a Kir or to champagne to make a Kir Royal.

In the UK, a blackcurrant squash may be mixed with beer or alcoholic cider to make drinks including "cider and black", "lager and black", or "snakebite and black".

In Russia, blackcurrant leaves may be used for flavoring tea or preserves, such as salted cucumbers, and berries for home winemaking. Sweetened vodka may also be infused with blackcurrant leaves making a deep greenish-yellow beverage with a tart flavor and astringent taste. The berries may be infused in a similar manner.

In the Netherlands, blackcurrants are used in a carbonated soft drink named "cassis", not to be confused with the alcoholic crème de cassis liqueur. The variety by Hero has been made since 1938 with blackcurrant juice concentrate as well as a small quantity of fermented blackcurrant juice.

Blackcurrant seed oil is an ingredient in cosmetics preparations, often in combination with vitamin E. The leaves can be extracted to yield a yellow dye, and the fruit is a source for a blue or violet dye resulting from its rich content of anthocyanins.

title: Blackcurrant


text:
Talk:Disobbedienti

There needs to be more here. An article must have more than just an external link. Maybe a paragraph or to to explain.

---

This shouldn't just be merged with 'Civil and social disobedience'. The term disobbedienti has a much more specific connotation involving European, particularly Italian autonomists engaged in specific struggles. It could perhaps be merged with autonomism (along with autonomist marxism, tute bianche, and others) but I'm not knowledgable enough to say that with great confidence.

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I disagree that this article is to be merged with Civil and social disobedience. It should be merged, but with Tute Bianche, and Tute Bianche should be expanded to include a citation and link of the Ya Basta Association.

While theyre all connected and interrelated in various ways, the Disobedienti should be treated as a continuation (abeit ultimately unsuccessful) of the tute bianche movement.

BA ---

There's too little information for disobientti. Since the two articles are almost the same, they should be combined. However, it shouldnt be combined with civil disobedience because the two do not relate.

title: Talk:Disobbedienti


text:
Hobgoblin (disambiguation)

Hobgoblin is a type of fairy or monster.

Hobgoblin may also refer to:

 * Hobgoblin (Dungeons & Dragons), an adaptation of the monster for the D&D role-playing game
 * Hobgoblin (comics), a comic book supervillain in the Marvel Comics universe, and an enemy of Spider-Man
 * "The Hobgoblin" (Spider-Man), an episode of Spider-Man: The Animated Series, featuring Marvel Comics' Hobgoblin as the villain
 * Hobgoblin (Imperial Guard), a different Marvel character also known as the Hobgoblin
 * Hobgoblin (character), a powerful magician in the 1948 Moomin novel Finn Family Moomintroll
 * Hobgoblin (beer), a type of beer manufactured by the UK-based Wychwood Brewery
 * Hobgoblin (novel), a 1981 horror novel by John Coyne
 * Hobgoblins (film), a 1988 B-movie, largely known for its appearance on Mystery Science Theater 3000
 * The Hobgoblin (1924 film), a 1924 German silent thriller film
 * The Hobgoblin (1990 film), alternate title for the movie Quest for the Mighty Sword
 * "Hobgoblin (song)", the lead single from CLC's 2017 album Crystyle
 * Þursaflokkurinn, an Icelandic progressive rock group the name of which means "The Hobgoblins" in English

title: Hobgoblin (disambiguation)