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User talk:Karada

The Hoffman-Singleton Graph Image
Hello comrade, this is AFOH, (talk), and some time ago i posted the best image for that graph i could find, trying to expand the stub content...I couldn't prove that the image i found was released for free use, but however the stub remains stub, and there is no solution to this point. Hope someone helps. Thanks.

Sexual Attraction
Howdy. I placed a note to you on the discussion page of sexual attraction and had not heard from you, yet. KeyStroke

Your uploaded image
Thanks for uploading Image:Arabic alphabet.png. I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know whether it's released under the GFDL, whether fair use is claimed, or what? Thanks,   – Quadell (talk) (help)   18:39, Oct 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * That's good enough evidence for me to say it's GFDL.   – Quadell (talk) (help)   12:23, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing
Hi, I've started the Free the Rambot Articles Project which has the goals of getting users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to... using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) version 1.0 and 2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to the GFDL (which every contribution made to Wikipedia is licensed under), but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles (See the Multi-licensing Guide for more information). Since you are among the top 1000 most active Wikipedians, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles.
 * 1) ...all U.S. state, county, and city articles...
 * 2) ...all articles...

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the   template (or    for public domain) into their user page, but there are other templates for other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

 * Option 1
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR
 * Option 2
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions to any U.S. state, county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace   with   . If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know at my talk page what you think. -- Ram-Man 20:33, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)

The Humungous Image Tagging Project
Hi. You've helped with the WikiProject Wiki Syntax, so I thought it worth alerting you to the latest and greatest of Wikipedia fixing project, User:Yann/Untagged Images, which is seeking to put copyright tags on all of the untagged images. There are probably, oh, thirty thousand or so to do (he said, reaching into the air for a large figure). But hey: they're images ... you'll get to see lots of random pretty pictures. That must be better than looking for at at and the the, non? You know you'll love it. best wishes --Tagishsimon (talk)

There is already a Category:Eastenders characters
Other characters are already categorized there, which is a subcategory of Category:Soap opera characters. There is currently no Category:EastEnders. For now, I would suggest having the two not categorized (which I actually just did move) to Category:Eastenders characters, and then putting that up for renaming at Categories for deletion. Thanks.

Requests for comment/68.170.0.238
Any chance you'd be willing to contribute to this RfC? RickK 04:43, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

Aetherometry
Two questions
 * I was wondering why you removed DeMeo's criticms of the Correas
 * Have you read some of the articles on the Correa's web site? Whoever writes them seems to me to be using the same abusive/contemptuous/mocking style as Helicoid and our anons.  I strongly suspect that we are debating the Correas themselves.  Gets to the whole idea of not editing articles about yourself.  Guettarda 2 July 2005 14:56 (UTC)

Two answers: -- Karada 2 July 2005 14:59 (UTC)
 * I didn't: I just cited it in-line in the text of the article. Please feel free to replace it.
 * That's a very interesting thought.

BTW - the anon IPs are, for the most part, from Toronto and Hamilton Guettarda 2 July 2005 15:11 (UTC)

Fascinating. Akronos Publishing gives its address as being in Concord, Ontario. Those three locations are rather close together. -- Karada 2 July 2005 15:24 (UTC)

Disclaimers
Hi,

if you insert disclaimers by using their MediaWiki name (see MediaWiki custom messages), we can easily update these messages in all articles that use them. Besides, it saves typing. For the risk disclaimer, use .—Eloquence 22:41, Dec 12, 2003 (UTC)

-

Khmer Rouge
Opps! Edit conflict. Sorry - I'll merge in your edits. -mav

VFD of MiseTings?
Hello. I noticed you put a VFD tag on the MiseTings article and then reverted it. Was this because it's just been through two in the past several months/weeks or for other reasons? I'm just a big patron of the article and I'd like to satisfy my curiosity. Take care! Mr Bound July 5, 2005 20:35 (UTC)

 * It was because I noticed that it had survived VfD twice recently. -- Karada 6 July 2005 20:25 (UTC)

Edit of terrorism page
Because I didn't write it. Someone removed the part called "Other world leaders" so I was looking for it in History, I found it and forgot to read all the quotes, so that one slipped in. I removed it when I saw it. If you do not believe me, check history and you can see that I did not write it. It was a glip on my part and I am truly sorry. Havok 7 July 2005 12:43 (UTC)

 * Thanks for letting me know. -- Karada 7 July 2005 12:46 (UTC)

 * No problem, I found the vandal though. This is the person who added it Havok 7 July 2005 12:53 (UTC)

lost vote
Karada, I lost your vote in Votes for deletion/Totally Obvious when I reverted some vandalism. Do you want to re-vote, or do you want me to copy/paste your previous vote? Sorry. Joyous (talk) 22:05, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Dealing with AOL vandals
Hi there! That page sounds like a good idea; do you intend to finish it? Because presently it's not really helpful, I'm afraid. I would suggest userfying it may be useful. Radiant_ >|< 09:37, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

Re Dr Vicki Shiran
I changed the page. it is more informative now

Brandy Snifter Gyros
Are called "Hemispherical Resonator Gyros". User:Ray Van De Walker

Conflict of interest
While the connection between myself and Squitti's is quite evident, no action was taken to conceal this, however how about those who do.

How about those who use a non-real name ? How about those who work for related companies ? How can you tell whether they are "related", or even part of a related marketing company ?

Notable
"Notable means "worthy of being noted" or "attracting notice". It is not synonymous with "fame" or "importance". Please consider notable and demonstrable effects on culture, society, entertainment, athletics, economies, history, literature, science, or education. Large organizations are likely to have more readily available verifiable information from reliable sources that provide evidence of notability; however, smaller organizations can be notable, just as individuals can be notable, and arbitrary standards should not be used to create a bias favoring larger organizations."

Squitti's has, sponsored research into the discovery of anti-truths, what I believe to be a great philosophical error that has gone undetected since the days of Adam and Eve. The impact on culture, on society, and all the related areas of association is tremendous.

Any way...thanks for your time.

Thanks
Hi no problem about my "Dave" edits. That user is blocked now for being mistaken for one of those Anti Vandle bots or whatever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.64.53.30 (talk • contribs)

Speedy deletion nomination of Lexical environment

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice to inform you that a tag has been placed on Lexical environment requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an article with no content whatsoever, or whose contents consist only of external links, a "See also" section, book references, category tags, template tags, interwiki links, images, a rephrasing of the title, a question that should have been asked at the help or reference desks, or an attempt to contact the subject of the article. Please see Wikipedia:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Postcard Cathy (talk)

title: User talk:Karada


text: User:Aztak

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Aztak


text:
User talk:Aztak

Hello there, welcome to the 'pedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you ever need editing help visit How does one edit a page and experiment at Sandbox. If you need pointers on how we title pages visit Naming conventions or how to format them visit our manual of style. If you have any other questions about the project then check out Help or add a question to the Village pump. Cheers! --maveric149

title: User talk:Aztak


text:
User talk:RobinChacko

Hello there, welcome to the 'pedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you ever need editing help visit How does one edit a page and experiment at Sandbox. If you need pointers on how we title pages visit Naming conventions or how to format them visit our manual of style. If you have any other questions about the project then check out Help or add a question to the Village pump. Cheers! --maveric149

title: User talk:RobinChacko


text:
User:PingPongBoy

On 2005/9/25, PingPongBoy was fascinated by fields. In field theory, the notion of a field may have been motivated by the study of roots of polynomials.

On 2005/9/27, PingPongBoy was fascinated by extensionality. PingPongBoy had always used the practical definition of equality as, loosely speaking, a relationship that holds between two things that are the same in every way. However, the idea of extensionality suggests that equality could be prone to error: what if no one could find a distinguishing test for two inequal things? Things that are equal are and things that aren't aren't, right? The ingenuity of the beholder should have no bearing.

On 2005/9/27, PingPongBoy resumed his interest in algebraic numbers, which caught his attention in field theory. What are algebraic numbers? I mean, why are they so important that they are given such a name? The study of algebra has a far ranging and significant impact, and to call a number algebraic would pretty quickly exclude all other kinds of numbers from being called algebraic, regardless of how deserving they are. How fascinating that it's all related to the roots of polynomials. Well, polynomials are quite desirable for use as mathematical models. We can give them that much.

Who would have thought $$i^i$$ is transcendental, that is, not a root for a polynomial with rational coefficients?

The import of isomorphism and homomorphism is noted by PingPongBoy. Isomorphism is a strange animal -- how is an isomorphism between Big Ben and a wristwatch expressed in simple terms?

title: User:PingPongBoy


text:
User talk:PingPongBoy

Hello there, welcome to the 'pedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you ever need editing help visit How does one edit a page and experiment at Sandbox. If you need pointers on how we title pages visit Naming conventions or how to format them visit our manual of style. If you have any other questions about the project then check out Help or add a question to the Village pump. Cheers! --maveric149

title: User talk:PingPongBoy


text: User:Artost

title: User:Artost


text:
User talk:Artost

Hello there, welcome to the 'pedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you ever need editing help visit How does one edit a page and experiment at Sandbox. If you need pointers on how we title pages visit Naming conventions or how to format them visit our manual of style. If you have any other questions about the project then check out Help or add a question to the Village pump. Cheers! --maveric149

AfD nomination of Biolytix
An editor has nominated Biolytix, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also "What Wikipedia is not"). Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ). You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. Jayden54Bot 18:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

[Dean Cameron (inventor)]]
Hi, could you please work out how to cite the episode of The Inventors that Dean appeared on? It would be best to have an actual reference about him, rather than just an external links section. They are regarded quite differently.

If you say "He is best known for...." then you need a source saying that is why he is best known. It may be best to simply say
 * He appeared on episode X, of the 200Y series of The New Inventors, with his Biolytix system for ..."

Sorry to hear his invention got deleted from this site. Garrie 05:49, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Open Company
A proposed deletion template has been added to the article Open Company, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process  because of the following concern:
 * Neologism missing reliable sources to indicate notability.

All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice should explain why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised because, even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. tedder (talk) 00:50, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:Artost


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Mest

Mest is an American rock band originally formed by lead vocalist and guitarist Tony Lovato, bassist Matt Lovato, drummer Nick Gigler, and guitarist Jeremiah Rangel. They broke up in 2006 after eleven years, but temporarily reformed in California in 2008 for a "final tour." Tony released “Not What You Expected” in 2013 and it was announced in 2018 that the classic lineup of Mest, with Tony Lovato, Matt Lovato, Nick Gigler, and Jeremiah Rangel, would be getting back together to track Masquerade.

History
Cousins Matt Lovato and Tony Lovato formed the band together in October 1995. The band's last guitarist, Jeremiah Rangel, joined the band in 1998. Their previous guitarist was Steve Lovato, Tony Lovato's brother. Nick Gigler joined the band in 1997.

In 1998, the band self-released Mo' Money, Mo' 40z. Their debut album on Maverick Records, Wasting Time, was released in July 2000 and Destination Unknown in 2001. They toured as an opening band for Goldfinger on July 20, 2002, in Las Vegas and then a few months later, released a DVD called The Show Must Go Off! in January 2003. Later that same year, the band released their self-titled album, which featured the single Jaded (These Years), featuring Benji Madden of Good Charlotte.

In 2005, a tour with Social Distortion was cut short when drummer Nick Gigler required surgery for carpal tunnel syndrome in his wrists which was affecting his drumming. The band's last album, Photographs, was released October 18, 2005.

In January 2006, the band announced on their MySpace blog that they would break-up following a U.S. tour. The tour ran from late January until early March, with support from Allister and Scary Kids Scaring Kids.

Mest played a reunion show at the House of Blues in Anaheim, California, on April 17, 2008. In response, Nick Gigler posted a bulletin through his personal MySpace and confirmed that he would not be taking part, and that he had called Jeremiah Rangel and Matt Lovato, who had confirmed that they would not be appearing with Tony either.

After the one-off "One Night Stand" show, Tony decided to rebuild Mest and go on a monthlong tour, with help from Chris Wilson (Good Charlotte, The Summer Obsession), and his brother and founding member, Steve Lovato (at the time in Room One Eleven). Although Matt showed interest, he and Jeremiah were both reported to be too busy with other commitments to join. Nick and Tony had not been on speaking terms since the band broke up. The trek took place in October and November 2008, and featured Quietdrive, Rookie of the Year, and Automatic Loveletter.

Mest went on a European tour in spring 2012 with its current members, Mike Longworth and Richie Gonzales, and also toured the US with Escape the Fate and Attack Attack in 2012.

Mest released their album Not What You Expected in September 2013, written and recorded with Richie Gonzales and Mike Longworth, making it available for free to download from their website. Mest played 3 dates on the Warped Tour 2013. They self-released another album in 2014, entitled Broken Down.

On October 25, 2018, Mest officially announced that they had signed with El Hefe, from NOFX's label Cyber Trax Records and a new album with the original lineup would be released in spring 2019. A single entitled "Masquerade" was uploaded to YouTube in July 2019, accompanied by an announcement to the effect that a new album would be released in the fall of that year, produced by Cameron Webb.

Mest's album Masquerade was released on January 17, 2020.

On April 12, 2024, Mest released a new song called "When We Were Young" featuring Jaret Reddick of Bowling For Soup. At this time the band also announced that their upcoming album will be called "Youth" and is set to be released May 31, 2024.

Room One Eleven
Steve Lovato a.k.a. "Locust", went on to assemble a music project called Room One Eleven which includes former Mest lighting engineer and merchandise salesman, Phil Cirullo a.k.a. "Swylla" and hip hop prodigy Damien Ringo. They are a group based out of Chicago's Southside. This band's first album "Tears Dry Slow" was released in early March 2008.

Kisses for Kings
Tony Lovato went on to form a band called Kisses for Kings, whose line-up consists of Tony Lovato, Mike Longworth, and Richie Gonzales. They have performed on the 2007 Warped Tour and toured in July 2009 with Hollywood Undead, Red Jumpsuit Apparatus and The Sleeping on the "Taking Care of Business Tour" a.k.a. TCB Tour. Their first EP was released on May 1, 2010, at the MEST show at the House of Blues, Anaheim.

The Twilight and the Sound
Matt and Jeremiah formed a new band called The Twilight and the Sound, announced publicly via Mest's MySpace page on Monday, October 27, 2008.

The Get Go
Nick Gigler's first project after Mest was Chicago-based The Get Go. The band was formed in January 2007, and also features members such as Allister's Scott Murphy on bass and vocals and Kyle Lewis on guitar and vocals, Showoff's Chris Messer on vocals and Nate Thruman on guitar and vocals.

The A-Gang
The A-Gang is a current project involving Nick Gigler on drums. Based in Detroit, it also features former Suicide Machines bassist Rich Tschirhart.

Members

 * Current
 * Tony Lovato – lead vocals, rhythm guitar (1995–present)
 * Gary Foster - Drums (2020-current)
 * Bob Amendola - Bass (2023-present)
 * Devin Parker - lead guitar (2023-present)

 * Former
 * Casey Artus - Bass (2020-2023)
 * Matt Lovato – bass (1995–2006, 2015–2020)
 * Nick Gigler – drums (1995–2006, 2015–2020)
 * Jeremiah Rangel – lead guitar, backing and lead vocals (1998–2006, 2015–2020)
 * Chris Wilson – drums (2008)
 * Steve Lovato – bass (2008–2012)
 * Richie Gonzales – drums (2010–2015)
 * Mike Longworth – lead guitar, studio bass (2010–2015)
 * Brandon Stewart – bass (2013–2015)

 * Timeline

Singles

 * "Drawing Board" from Wasting Time
 * "Cadillac" from Destination Unknown
 * "Mother's Prayer" from Destination Unknown
 * "Jaded (These Years)" from Mest – No. 88 Australia
 * "Take Me Away (Cried Out to Heaven)" from Photographs
 * "Kiss Me, Kill Me" from Photographs
 * "Almost" from Not What You Expected
 * "Radio (Something To Believe)" from Not What You Expected

Videography appearances

 * The Show Must Go Off! (2003) DVD

title: Mest


text:
Talk:Ascribed characteristics

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ina.sit. Peer reviewers: Ilanitsimonov, Mekaric.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 17:35, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled

 * "Many heated arguments stem from disagreements over whether or not a given trait is "really" an ascribed characteristic. For example, there seems to be a significant correlation between believing that homosexuality is largely genetically determined and believing that homosexuality is acceptable. And few, it seems, would be willing to condemn homosexuality if it could be proven that it were entirely determined from birth."

This phrasing bothers me somewhat. I do admit to not knowing other cultures like I should, but does this apply to most other cultures or just a culture dominated by a monotheistic religion? What for instance do asian cultures feel about homosexuality? I don't even really like the last sentence as even though I think there's a genetic basis for feeling one way or another, I also thing that experiences can also affect an orientation, so it seems a loaded statement to me. Simply put, it doesn't feel NPOV to me, and may not even be correct. Opinions? - Rgamble

I wrote the above, and I think your questions are all interesting ones. Unfortunately, I'm short on answers. A couple of comments:

 * 1) This is probably not the place for a serious discussion of homosexuality. I hope other articles cover the topic better.
 * 2) It may be useful to separate worries about whether it is remotely plausible that "it could be proven that [homosexuality] were entirely determined from birth" from claims about what would follow from such proof in the context of various belief systems and from claims about what would follow from such proof in some kind of absolutist moral framework.
 * 3) I'm newly suspicious of my claim that "there seems to be a significant correlation between believing that homosexuality is largely genetically determined and believing that homosexuality is acceptable." I have no hard data on this whatsoever, so, if it's to be included, it should probably have even more disclaimers. I bet there is hard data that shows this in the United States, but I don't know where I would find it.

--Ryguasu

Could we perhaps remove the claim then and perhaps substitute another historically valid one? The claim as it stands feels somewhat non-NPOV in style given that it seems to be based on some potentially shaky ground. As you say, the topic of homosexuality has been covered elsewhere in wikipedia, and it just doesn't feel right in this article, at least to me. Point two is interesting, but again, I think it might make the subject of whether homosexuality is solely an ascribed characteristic, dominate the article.

Other comments welcomed.

--Rgamble

This may be a reasonable course of action. I have no alternative suggestions, however. In any case, there should probably be at least a link to stuff about homosexuality. --Ryguasu

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Clvntrn.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 14:49, 16 January 2022 (UTC) === Edits under consideration, up for I will try to make the phrasing more politically correct and neutral. If I can find scholarly sources for both sides of the sexuality argument, I could perhaps put it into an example of its use in common arguments? I think the "Common Arguments" section should be broken up to have a successes and criticism sections, each with multiple sources. I believe that there should also be a history on its rise to use, first reference, when it came more common... I have a found a couple modern sources, but it will take some digging to find these older ones. I will also hope to bring a more formal tone to the article, focusing on the "Common argument" section.. After sources have been collected, other section headings may present themselves. I also Will add how it contrasts to similar ideas such as Achieved Status.

List of Relevant Sources: Pretty Good Quality

Personal networks in Saudi Arabia: The role of ascribed and achieved characteristics

Science Direct, Utrecht University, Department of Sociology. It says achieved attributes are more important than Ascribed ones W.R.T personal Networks...

"Achieved status is more important than ascribed characteristics." --- ALL RIGHTS RESERVED TO OWNER, FOR REFERENCE ONLY DIRECTLY FROM SCIENCE DIRECT SUMMARY

https://www-sciencedirect-com.aurarialibrary.idm.oclc.org/science/article/pii/S0378873315000854

Ok quality / length:

https://www.scribd.com/doc/297243566/ascribed-characteristics-and-achievement

-Florida Gulf Coast university, written by professors of Psychology

Ina.sit (talk) 02:21, 15 March 2018 (UTC) Ina.sit (talk) 02:25, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

If I make further edits, I will make an education in the USA section Ina.sit (talk) 21:59, 11 April 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ascribed characteristics


text:
The Show Must Go Off!

The Show Must Go Off! is a live concert DVD series produced by Kung Fu Films, an offshoot of the Kung Fu Records label, which began in 2002. The producer was Vandals bassist Joe Escalante. As of 2005, the series featured at least 19 "episodes". The series features punk rock and pop punk bands from various eras – from older groups that were popular in the 1980s and 1990s, to more recent acts.

The series title The Show Must Go Off! was first used for the recorded performance by Mest at the House of Blues, which was later re-labeled as "Episode 2" in the series, while the Vandals Christmas DVD released in 2002 became known as "Episode 1."

In later installments, numerous special features were incorporated into the DVD releases. Episode 9, The Vandals Live at the House of Blues was recorded using eight cameras, including a "Josh Freese cam" with a picture-in-picture close-up of the drummer's foot-pedal. The DVD also included optional subtitles for the lyrics, and commentary from band members.

title: The Show Must Go Off!


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Talk:New England (U.S. Region)

Could we rename this New England (US region)? The long title is a little odd. Dachshund

I agree, but how about New England (U.S.) rather than the above. I have The West (U.S.). I can change the others

Southwest Region of the United States -> The Southwest (U.S.)

and U.S. Southern States -> The South (U.S.)

We also should have a Mid Atlantic (U.S.) page.

 * I'm ok with that. Do you want to make the change? Dachshund

 * I changed the New England articles, but not the other regions. I added in some text from the us embassy, but the text sounds like a travel brochure. sfmontyo.

title: Talk:New England (U.S. Region)


text:
Ulster Defence Association

The Ulster Defence Association (UDA) is an Ulster loyalist paramilitary group in Northern Ireland. It was formed in September 1971 as an umbrella group for various loyalist groups and undertook an armed campaign of almost 24 years as one of the participants of the Troubles. Its declared goal was to defend Ulster Protestant loyalist areas and to combat Irish republicanism, particularly the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA). In the 1970s, uniformed UDA members openly patrolled these areas armed with batons and held large marches and rallies. Within the UDA was a group tasked with launching paramilitary attacks that used the cover name Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF) so that the UDA would not be outlawed. The British government proscribed the UFF as a terrorist group in November 1973, but the UDA itself was not proscribed until August 1992.

The UDA/UFF were responsible for more than 400 deaths. The vast majority of its victims were Irish Catholic civilians,  killed at random, in what the group called retaliation for IRA actions or attacks on Protestants. High-profile attacks carried out by the group include the Top of the Hill bar shooting, the Milltown massacre, the Sean Graham's and James Murray's bookmakers' shootings, the Castlerock killings, killings of Paddy Wilson and Irene Andrews and the Greysteel massacre. Most of its attacks were in Northern Ireland, but from 1972 onward it also carried out bombings in the Republic of Ireland. The UDA/UFF declared a ceasefire in 1994 and ended its campaign in 2007, but some of its members have continued to engage in violence. The other main Loyalist paramilitary group during the conflict was the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF). All three groups are proscribed organisations in the United Kingdom under the Terrorism Act 2000.

History
The Ulster Defence Association emerged from a series of meetings during the middle of 1971 of loyalist "vigilante" groups called "defence associations". The largest of these were the Shankill and Woodvale Defence Associations, with other groups based in East Belfast, the Hammer and Roden Street.

UDA formation
The first meeting, in September 1971, was chaired by Billy Hull, with Alan Moon of the lower Shankill as its vice-chair. Moon was quickly replaced by Jim Anderson. Moon, who had become reluctant to be involved in vigilantism since the group's formation, willingly stepped aside and ended his association with the UDA soon afterwards. The structure of this new movement soon took shape with a thirteen-man Security Council established in January 1972 as a reaction to a Provisional IRA bomb the previous month at the Balmoral furniture showroom on the Shankill which killed four people including two infants.

By this point, Charles Harding Smith had become the group's leader, with former Royal Army Ordnance Corps soldier Davy Fogel as his second-in-command, who trained the new recruits in military tactics, the use of guns, and unarmed combat. Its most prominent early spokesperson was Tommy Herron; however, Andy Tyrie would emerge as leader soon after. Its original motto was Cedenta Arma Togae ("Law before violence" ) and it was a legal organisation until it was banned by the British government on 10 August 1992. Under Smith's command, the UDA was organised along paramilitary lines into battalions, companies, platoons and sections. The organisation drew more members, becoming the largest loyalist paramilitary organisation in Northern Ireland. Unlike its principal rival, the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF), the UDA was legal.

In April 1972, the organisation's leader, Charles Harding Smith and leading UDA member John White were arrested in London for gun-trafficking. A temporary de facto leadership assumed control and Anderson became the acting chairman of the UDA.

At the end of May 1972, Fogel, by then the leader of B Company and Harding Smith's second-in-command, erected the first UDA roadblocks and street barricades, making Woodvale, the area under Fogel's command, a no-go area. The operation attracted a great deal of media and press coverage, resulting in much publicity for the UDA. British Army troops under the command of Major-General Robert Ford were sent to the area, where a stand-off with the UDA ensued. Leading UDA figures eventually entered into street negotiations with senior Army officers, where it was eventually agreed that the UDA could erect small temporary barriers in Loyalist neighbourhoods. That summer, the UDA marched through the streets of central Belfast in a massive demonstration of strength.

In December 1972, Harding Smith and White were acquitted and returned to Belfast. Immediately after their return, a fierce power struggle ensued after Harding Smith declared to his associates: "I'm the boss. I take orders from no one". Fogel was promptly ousted from the B Company command, while the formidable East Belfast brigadier, Tommy Herron, appeared on the scene to challenge Harding Smith's leadership. Anderson became joint chairman of the UDA with Harding Smith. The struggle that ensued between Harding Smith and Herron overshadowed the Inner Council and during the height of the feud Anderson often had to call a register at its meetings, so poor were the turnouts. Herron and Anderson became linked and the East Belfast brigadier took to styling himself as deputy leader to Anderson, whom he treated as sole chairman.

By spring 1973, however, Fogel had already returned to his native England, and Anderson decided to stand down. He publicly announced his resignation as joint chairman in March 1973, in part because he was a fairly law-abiding individual who sat uneasily with violently chaotic figures like Harding Smith and Herron. It had been Anderson who had been one of the main thinkers behind the UDA's motto "Law Before Violence" although this was ditched shortly after his resignation in favour of "Quis separabit". As a compromise candidate between the rival factions of Harding Smith and Herron, Andy Tyrie, commander of West Belfast Brigade's A Company, was chosen as the UDA's chairman. He would soon become the UDA's Supreme Commander, a position he held until an attempted car bombing brought about his retirement in March 1988.

Early in its history the UDA was closely associated with the Vanguard movement led by William Craig and it was regularly described as the "military wing" of Vanguard. At a rally in Lisburn in February 1972, Craig inspected uniformed ranks of UDA members. Craig issued a warning during a rally at Ormeau Park the next month, where thousands of UDA men were present: "If the politicians fail us, it might become our responsibility to eliminate the enemy." However, by 1979 the UDA had turned on Craig over his increasingly conciliatory approach to Nationalists and condemnation of the 1977 loyalist strike, leading the UDA to instead back Peter Robinson in that year's general election.

Membership
At its peak of strength it held around forty thousand members, mostly part-time. During this period of legality, the UDA committed a large number of attacks using the name Ulster Freedom Fighters, including the murder of Social Democratic and Labour Party (SDLP) politician Paddy Wilson and his companion Irene Andrews in 1973. The UDA was involved in the successful Ulster Workers Council Strike in 1974, which brought down the Sunningdale Agreement: a power-sharing agreement for Northern Ireland, which some unionists thought conceded too much to nationalist demands. The UDA enforced this general strike through widespread intimidation across Northern Ireland. The strike was led by VUPP Assemblyman and UDA member, Glenn Barr.

The UDA were often referred to by the nickname "Wombles" by their rivals, mainly the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF). The nickname is derived from the furry fictional children's TV creatures The Wombles, and was given to the UDA because many of its members wore fur-trimmed parkas. Its headquarters is in Gawn Street, off the Newtownards Road in east Belfast, and its current motto is Quis Separabit, which is Latin for "Who will separate [us]?"

Women's units
The UDA had several women's units, which were independent of each other. Although they occasionally helped staff roadblocks, the women's units were typically involved in local community work and responsible for the assembly and delivery of food parcels to UDA prisoners. This was a source of pride for the UDA. The first women's unit was founded on the Shankill Road by Wendy "Bucket" Millar, whose sons Herbie and James "Sham" Millar would later become prominent UDA members. The UDA women's department was headed by Jean Moore, who also came from the Shankill Road. She had also served as the president of the women's auxiliary of the Loyalist Association of Workers. Her brother Ingram "Jock" Beckett, one of the UDA's founding members, had been killed in March 1972 by a rival UDA faction in an internal dispute. Moore was succeeded by Hester Dunn of east Belfast, who also ran the public relations and administration section at the UDA headquarters. Wendy Millar's Shankill Road group was a particularly active women's unit, and another was based in Sandy Row, south Belfast, a traditional UDA stronghold. The latter was commanded by Elizabeth "Lily" Douglas. Her teenaged daughter, Elizabeth was one of the members.

The Sandy Row women's UDA unit was disbanded after it carried out a vicious "romper room" punishment beating on 24 July 1974 which left 32-year-old Ann Ogilby dead. The body of Ogilby, a Protestant single mother who had an affair with the husband of one of the unit's members, was found in a ditch five days later. The day of the fatal beating Ogilby was abducted and forced upstairs to the first floor of a disused bakery in Sandy Row that had been converted into a UDA club. Two teenage girls, Henrietta Cowan and Christine Smith, acting under Elizabeth Douglas' orders to give Ogilby a "good rompering", punched, kicked, then battered her to death with bricks and sticks; the autopsy later revealed that Ogilby had suffered 24 blows to the head and body. The killing, which was carried out within earshot of Ogilby's six-year-old daughter, caused widespread revulsion throughout Northern Ireland and was condemned by the UDA prisoners serving inside the Maze Prison. None of the other UDA women's units had consented to or been aware of the fatal punishment beating until it was reported in the news. Douglas, Cowan, and Smith were convicted of the murder and sentenced to imprisonment at Armagh Women's Jail. Seven other members of the women's unit and a UDA man were also convicted for their part in the murder. The UDA "romper rooms", named after the children's television programme, were places where victims were beaten and tortured prior to being killed. This was known as a "rompering". The "romper rooms" were normally located in disused buildings, lock-up garages, warehouses, and rooms above pubs and drinking clubs. The use of the "romper rooms" was a more common practice among male members of the UDA than their female counterparts.

Paramilitary campaign

Starting in 1972 the UDA along with the other main Loyalist paramilitary group the Ulster Volunteer Force, undertook an armed campaign against the Catholic population of Northern Ireland that would last until the end of the troubles. In May 1972, the UDA's pressured leader Tommy Herron decided that responsibility for acts of violence committed by the UDA would be claimed by the "UFF". Its first public statements came one month later.

The UDA's official position during the Troubles was that if the Provisional Irish Republican Army (Provisional IRA) called off its campaign of violence, then it would do the same. However, if the British government announced that it was withdrawing from Northern Ireland, then the UDA would act as "the IRA in reverse."

Active throughout the Troubles, its armed campaign gained prominence in the early 1990s through Johnny Adair's ruthless leadership of the Lower Shankill 2nd Battalion, C. Company, which resulted in a greater degree of tactical independence for individual brigades. C. Company's hit squad, led by Stephen McKeag, became notorious for a campaign of random murders of Catholic civilians in the first half of the 1990s.

They benefited, along with the Ulster Volunteer Force, and a group called Ulster Resistance (set up by the Democratic Unionist Party), from a shipment of arms imported from Lebanon in 1988. The weapons landed included rocket launchers, 200 rifles, 90 pistols and over 400 grenades. Although almost two–thirds of these weapons were later recovered by the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC), they enabled the UDA to launch an assassination campaign against their perceived enemies.

North Belfast UDA brigadier Davy Payne was arrested after his "scout" car had been stopped at a RUC checkpoint and large caches of the weaponry were discovered in the boots of his associates' cars. He was sentenced to 19 years in prison.

In 1992, Brian Nelson, a prominent UDA member who served as the organisation's intelligence chief, was arrested by the Stevens Inquiry Team. It was subsequently uncovered that he was also an agent of the Force Research Unit (FRU), an undercover Intelligence Corps unit. Over a period of two months, Nelson dictated a police statement covering 650 pages. He claimed that he had been tasked by his FRU handlers with transforming the UDA into a more effective force, particularly at carrying out killings. Using information supplied by his handlers, Nelson produced dossiers on proposed targets, which were passed on to UDA hitmen. Nelson was subsequently sentenced to 10 years in prison.

One of the most high-profile UDA attacks came in October 1993, when three masked men attacked a restaurant called the Rising Sun in the predominantly Catholic village of Greysteel, County Londonderry, where two hundred people were celebrating Halloween. The two men entered and opened fire. Eight people, including six Catholics and two Protestants were killed and nineteen wounded in what became known as the Greysteel massacre. The "UFF" claimed the attack was in retaliation to the IRA's Shankill Road bombing, which killed nine people seven days earlier.

According to the Sutton database of deaths at the University of Ulster's CAIN project, the UDA was responsible for 259 killings during the Troubles. 220 of its victims were civilians (predominantly Catholics), 37 were other loyalist paramilitaries (including 30 of its own members), three were members of the security forces and 11 were republican paramilitaries. According to the Stevens Enquiry, a number of these attacks were carried out with the assistance or complicity of elements of the British security forces. The preferred modus operandi of the UDA was individual killings of civilian targets in nationalist areas, rather than large-scale bomb or mortar attacks.

The UDA employed various codewords whenever they claimed their attacks. These included: "The Crucible", "Titanic", "Ulster Troubles" and "Captain Black".

Post-ceasefire activities
Its ceasefire was welcomed by the Northern Ireland Secretary of State, Paul Murphy, and the Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland, Hugh Orde.

Since the ceasefire, the UDA has been accused of taking vigilante action against alleged rival drug dealers, including tarring and feathering a man on the Taughmonagh estate in south Belfast. It has also been involved in several feuds with the UVF, which led to many killings. The UDA has also been riddled by its own internecine warfare, with self-styled "brigadiers" and former figures of power and influence, such as Johnny Adair and Jim Gray (themselves bitter rivals), falling rapidly in and out of favour with the rest of the leadership. Gray and John Gregg are amongst those to have been killed during the internal strife. On 22 February 2003, the UDA announced a "12-month period of military inactivity". It said it would review its ceasefire every three months. The UPRG's Frankie Gallagher has since taken a leading role in ending the association between the UDA and drug dealing.

Following an August 2005 Sunday World article that poked fun at the gambling losses of one of its leaders, the UDA banned the sale of the newspaper from shops in areas it controls. Shops that defy the ban have suffered arson attacks, and at least one newsagent was threatened with death. The Police Service of Northern Ireland began accompanying the paper's delivery vans. The UDA was also considered to have played an instrumental role in loyalist riots in Belfast in September 2005.

On 13 November 2005 the UDA announced that it would "consider its future", in the wake of the standing down of the Provisional IRA and Loyalist Volunteer Force.

In February 2006, the Independent Monitoring Commission (IMC) reported UDA involvement in organised crime, drug trafficking, counterfeiting, extortion, money laundering and robbery.

On 20 June 2006, the UDA expelled Andre Shoukri and his brother Ihab, two of its senior members who were heavily involved in organised crime. Some saw this as a sign that the UDA was slowly coming away from crime. The move did see the southeast Antrim brigade of the UDA, which had been at loggerheads with the leadership for some time, support Shoukri and break away under former UPRG spokesman Tommy Kirkham. Other senior members met with Taoiseach Bertie Ahern for talks on 13 July in the same year.

On 11 November 2007 the UDA announced that the Ulster Freedom Fighters would be stood down from midnight of the same day, with its weapons "being put beyond use" although it stressed that these would not be decommissioned.

Although the group expressed a willingness to move from criminal activity to "community development," the IMC said it saw little evidence of this move because of the views of its members and the lack of coherence in the group's leadership as a result of its decentralised structure. While the report indicated the leadership intends to move towards its stated goals, factionalism hindered this change and was the strongest hindrance to progress. Although most loyalist actions were curtailed since the IMC's previous report, most of loyalist paramilitary activity was coming from the UDA.

The IMC report concluded that the leadership's willingness to change has resulted in community tension and the group would continue to be monitored, although "the mainstream UDA still has some way to go." Furthermore, the IMC warned the group to "recognise that the organisation's time as a paramilitary group has passed and that decommissioning is inevitable." Decommissioning was said to be the "biggest outstanding issue for loyalist leaders, although not the only one."

On 6 January 2010, the UDA announced that it had put its weapons "verifiably beyond use". The decommissioning was completed five weeks before a government amnesty deadline beyond which any weapons found could have been used as evidence for a prosecution. The decommissioning was confirmed by Canadian General John de Chastelain, chairman of the Independent International Commission on Decommissioning, as well as Lord Eames, former Archbishop of Armagh and Sir George Quigley, former top civil servant.

Chastelain stated that the decommissioning included arms, ammunition, explosives and explosive devices and the UDA stated that the arms "constitute the totality of those under their control". Following the decommissioning the Ulster Political Research Group, the UDA's political representatives, stated that the "Ulster Defence Association was formed to defend our communities; we state quite clearly and categorically that this responsibility now rests with the Government and its institutions where legitimacy resides". UDA representative Frankie Gallagher also stated that the group now regretted being responsible for the killing of more than 400 people.

Shaun Woodward, the British Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, stated that this "is a major act of leadership by the UDA and further comprehensive evidence of the success of politics over violence in Northern Ireland" and the act was also welcomed by Sinn Féin and DUP politicians. The President of the Republic of Ireland, Mary McAleese, described the decommissioning as "a very positive milestone on the journey of peace". US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton also welcomed the move as a step towards lasting peace in Northern Ireland.

South East Antrim group
This area also continues to use the "UDA" title in its name, although it too expressed willingness to move towards "community development." Although serious crime is not prevalent among its members, some who were arrested for illegal drug sales and "extortion" were exiled by the Brigade. A clear distinction between the factions was not available in the 20th IMC report, as this was the first report to differentiate between the two.

Politics
In the 1970s the group favoured Northern Ireland independence, but they have retreated from this position.

The New Ulster Political Research Group (NUPRG) was initially the political wing of the UDA, founded in 1978, which then evolved into the Ulster Loyalist Democratic Party in 1981 under the leadership of John McMichael, a prominent UDA member killed by the IRA in 1987, amid suspicion that he was set up to be killed by some of his UDA colleagues.

In 1987, the UDA's deputy commander John McMichael (who was then the leader of the UFF) promoted a document entitled Common Sense, which promoted a consensual end to the conflict in Northern Ireland, while maintaining the Union. The document advocated a power-sharing assembly involving both nationalists and unionists, an agreed constitution and new Bill of Rights. It is not clear, however, whether this programme was adopted by the UDA as their official policy. However, the killing of McMichael that same year and the subsequent removal of Tyrie from the leadership and his replacement with an Inner Council saw the UDA concentrate on stockpiling weapons rather than political ideas.

In 1989, the ULDP changed its name to the Ulster Democratic Party (UDP). It finally dissolved itself in 2001 following very limited electoral success and internal difficulties. Gary McMichael, son of John McMichael, was the last leader of the UDP, which supported the signing of the Good Friday Agreement. The Ulster Political Research Group (UPRG) was subsequently formed to give political analysis to the UDA and act as community workers in loyalist areas. It is currently represented on the Belfast City Council.

In early January 1994, the UDA released a document calling for ethnic cleansing and repartition, with the goal of making a new Northern Ireland which would have been wholly Protestant. The plan was to be implemented should the British Army withdraw from Northern Ireland. Areas in the south and west with strong Catholic/nationalist majorities would be handed over to the Republic, and those Catholics left stranded in the "Protestant state" would be "expelled, nullified, or interned". The story was printed in The Sunday Independent newspaper on 16 January. The "doomsday plan" was based on the work of Dr Liam Kennedy, a lecturer at Queen's University Belfast who in 1986 had published a book called Two Ulsters: A Case for Repartition, although it did not call for ethnic cleansing. The UDP's Raymond Smallwoods said "I wasn't consulted but the scenario set out is a perfectly plausible one". The DUP's Sammy Wilson stated that the plan "shows that some loyalist paramilitaries are looking ahead and contemplating what needs to be done to maintain our separate Ulster identity"

Support from other groups
The UDA had links with Neo-Nazi groups in Britain—specifically Combat 18 (formed in 1992) and the British National Socialist Movement (formed in 1985). Members of these groups helped to smuggle weapons for the UDA. The UDA has received backing from Combat 18, the National Front and the British National Party. The links may not have been politically motivated, but for mutually beneficial arms deals. On one occasion the UDA sent Louis Scott, one of a few black members of the UDA, to make the transaction. Johnny Adair, who had been in Combat 18 before the UDA, established stronger links once he became a brigadier.

The Red Hand Defenders is a cover name used by breakaway factions of the UDA and the LVF. The term was coined in 1997 when members of the LVF carried out attacks on behalf of Johnny Adair's "UFF 2nd Battalion, 'C' Company (Shankill Road)" and vice versa. The relationship between the UDA (specifically Adair's West Belfast Brigade, not the wider leadership of the UDA) was initially formed after the death of Billy Wright, the previous leader of the LVF, and grew from Adair's personal friendship with Mark 'Swinger' Fulton, the organisation's new chief.

The necessity for a cover name resulted from the need to avoid tensions between the UDA and the UVF, the organisation from which the LVF had broken away. It was perceived that any open co-operation between the UDA and the LVF would anger the UVF, something which proved to be the case in following years and resulted in a loyalist feud. There has been debate as to whether or not the Red Hand Defenders have become an entity in their own right made up of dissident factions from both the UDA and the LVF (both of which have now declared ceasefires whilst the RHD has not), although much intelligence has been based on the claims of responsibility which, as has been suggested, are frequently misleading.

A 1985 MI5 assessment reported that 85% of the UDA's "targeting material" came from security force records.

Scotland was a source of fundraising and other types of aid. Former MI5 agent Willie Carlin said: “There were safe houses in Glasgow and Stirling. The ferry [between Scotland and Northern Ireland] was pivotal in getting arms into the north – and anything like checkpoints, or armed police and Army in Scotland would have b******d that all up.” An Irish government memo written by David Donoghue stated: "The commonest contribution of Scots UDA and UVF is to send gelignite. Explosives for the north were mostly shipped in small boats which set out at night from the Scottish coast and made contact at sea with vessels from Ulster ports." Donoghue noted the links between Orange Lodges in Scotland and loyalist paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland and that membership of the Orange Order in Scotland at the time was 80,000, and was concentrated in Glasgow, Lanarkshire and Inverness. The Northern Ireland Affairs Select Committee noted in its report that "in 1992 it was estimated that Scottish support for the UDA and UVF might amount to £100,000 a year."

Protestants in Canada also supported the loyalist paramilitaries in the conflict. Sociologist Steven Bruce described the support networks in Canada as "the main source of support for loyalism outside the United Kingdom . . . Ontario is to Ulster Protestants what Boston is to Irish Catholics." After the Troubles began, an Orange-Canadian loyalist organization known as the Canadian Ulster Loyalist Association (CULA) provided the 'besieged' Protestants with the resources to arm themselves. A Canadian branch of the UDA also existed and sent $30,000 to the UDA's headquarters in Belfast by 1975. In 1972, five Toronto businessmen shipped weapons in grain container ships out of Halifax, bound for ports in Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland which were destined for loyalist militants.

Between 1979 and 1986, Canadian supporters supplied the UVF/UDA with 100 machine guns and thousands of rifles, grenade launchers, magnum revolvers, and hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition. These shipments were considered enough for the UVF/UDA to wage its campaign, most of which were used to kill its victims. On 10 February 1976, following the sudden uptick of violence against Catholic civilians by loyalist militants, Irish cardinal William Conway and nine other Catholic bishops met with British Prime Minister Harold Wilson and his cabinet, asking them as to where the loyalist militants had acquired guns, to which Secretary of State for Northern Ireland Merlyn Rees replied "Canada".

Structure and leadership
The UDA is made up of:
 * the Inner Council
 * the Ulster Freedom Fighters (UFF)—whose role was to carry out attacks on republican and nationalist targets. However, many regard the UFF as merely a covername used when the UDA wished to claim responsibility for attacks.
 * the Ulster Defence Force (UDF)—whose role was to give "specialist military training" to a select group of UDA members. The UDF was initiated by John McMichael (the then UDA/UFF commander) in 1985 as a response to the Anglo-Irish Agreement. The UDF operated training camps in rural parts of Northern Ireland that young loyalists such as Johnny Adair claim to have attended. One reported 'survival' training technique was to leave trainees stranded in Dublin with only £1. The training, which was described by UDA members as forming "the nucleus of a new loyalist army at the ready", was made possible thanks to "a sophisticated network of legal businesses" which allowed for the implementation of ambitious training programmes.
 * the Ulster Young Militants (UYM)—the "youth wing" of the group. Formed in 1973.
 * the Ulster Political Research Group (UPRG)—the UDA's "political advisory body". Formed in 1978.

The UDA operated a devolved structure of leadership, each with a brigadier representing one of its six "brigade areas". It is not clear whether this brigade structure has been maintained in the UDA's post cease-fire state. The UDA's six "brigade areas" were:
 * North Belfast
 * East Belfast
 * South Belfast, the UDA's largest brigade area, covering all of South Belfast down to Lisburn and operating as far away as South County Down, Lurgan, Portadown and Counties Tyrone and Fermanagh.
 * West Belfast
 * Southeast [County] Antrim
 * North County Antrim & County Londonderry

In addition to these six core brigades two others may have existed. A seventh Mid-Ulster Brigade is mentioned by Steve Bruce as having existed for part of the UDA's history although Henry McDonald and Jim Cusack characterise this as a "battalion" rather than a brigade and suggest that its rural location prevented it from fully developing. In the late 1970s a Scottish Brigade was established under the command of Roddy McDonald but this proved short-lived. The security forces infiltrated this brigade almost immediately and in 1979 arrested almost its entire membership, ninety people in all. Six members received particularly lengthy prison sentences for their involvement in UDA activities in Perth and the Scottish Brigade quietly disappeared.

Some of the notable brigadiers include:

Jackie McDonald—South Belfast (~1980s-present) Resident of the Taughmonagh estate in South Belfast. McDonald was a cautious supporter of the UDA's ceasefire and a harsh critic of Johnny 'Mad Dog' Adair during his final years of membership of the organisation. McDonald remains the only brigadier who did not have a commonly used nickname.

Johnny 'Mad Dog' Adair—West Belfast (1990–2002) An active figure in the UDA/UFF, Adair rose to notoriety in the early 1990s when he led the 2nd Battalion, C Company unit in West Belfast which was responsible for one of the bloodiest killing sprees of the Troubles.

Jim 'Doris Day' Gray—East Belfast (1992–2005) An unlikely figure in Northern Ireland loyalism, the openly bisexual Gray was a controversial figure in the organisation until his death on 4 October 2005. Always flamboyantly dressed, Gray was a key figure in the UDA's negotiations with Northern Ireland Secretary John Reid. It is widely believed that Gray received his nickname from the RUC Special Branch.

Jimbo 'Bacardi Brigadier' Simpson—North Belfast (Unknown–2002) Simpson is believed to have been an alcoholic, hence his nickname. He was leader of the UDA in the volatile North Belfast area, an interface between Catholics and Protestants in the New Lodge and Tiger's Bay neighbourhoods.

Billy 'The Mexican' McFarland—North Antrim and Londonderry (Unknown–2013) He earned his nickname because of his moustache and swarthy appearance, and had overall command of the UDA's North Antrim and Londonderry brigade at the time of the Good Friday Agreement. He supported the leadership against Johnny Adair and has been associated with the magazine 'Warrior', which makes the case for Ulster Independence.

Andre 'The Egyptian' Shoukri —North Belfast (2002–2005) Initially a close ally of Johnny Adair, Shoukri and his brother Ihab became involved with the UDA in his native North Belfast. The son of an Egyptian father and a Northern Irish mother, he was expelled from the UDA in 2005 following allegations of criminality.

John 'Grug' Gregg—South East Antrim (c.1993 –2003) John 'Grug' Gregg was a man with a fearsome reputation within the loyalist movement, known as a "Hawk" in loyalist circles, and controlled the streets of south east Antrim. On 14 March 1984, he severely wounded Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams in an assassination attempt for which he was jailed. When asked by the BBC in prison if he regretted anything about the shooting, his reply was "only that I didn't succeed." He was killed on Belfast's Nelson Street, along with another UDA member (Rab Carson), while travelling in a taxi from the docks in 2003, and the murder was blamed on supporters of Johnny Adair, who had recently been expelled from the UDA in 2002.

Deaths as a result of activity
Malcolm Sutton's Index of Deaths from the Conflict in Ireland, part of the Conflict Archive on the Internet (CAIN), states that the UDA/UFF was responsible for at least 260 killings, and lists a further 256 loyalist killings that have not yet been attributed to a particular group. According to the book Lost Lives (2006 edition), it was responsible for 431 killings.

Of those killed by the UDA/UFF:
 * 209 (~80%) were civilians, 12 of whom were civilian political activists
 * 11 (~4%) were members or former members of republican paramilitary groups
 * 37 (~14%) were members or former members of loyalist paramilitary groups
 * 3 (~1%) were members of the British security forces

The CAIN database says there were 91 UDA members and four former members killed in the conflict.

title: Ulster Defence Association


text:
Loyalist feud

A loyalist feud refers to any of the sporadic feuds which have erupted almost routinely between Northern Ireland's various loyalist paramilitary groups during and after the ethno-political conflict known as the Troubles broke out in 1969. The feuds have frequently involved conflicts between and within the Ulster Defence Association (UDA) and the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) as well as, later, the Loyalist Volunteer Force (LVF).

UDA–UVF feuds
Although the UDA and UVF have frequently co-operated and generally co-existed, the two groups have clashed. Two particular feuds stood out for their bloody nature.

1974–1975
A feud in the winter of 1974-75 broke out between the UDA and the UVF, the two main loyalist paramilitary organisations in Northern Ireland. The bad blood originated from an incident in the Ulster Workers' Council strike of May 1974 when the two groups were co-operating in support of the Ulster Workers' Council. That support the UDA and UVF members were giving involved shutting down their own social clubs and pubs due to complaints from loyalist wives of the striking men. The reason for this was with the men not working and funds being tight, the wives saw what little money they did have being spent at the pubs and social clubs controlled by UDA/UVF; therefore, the wives put pressure on the leaders of both groups to shut them down for the duration of the strike, and after consultation they agreed. All shut down except for a lone UVF-affiliated pub on the Shankill Road. On a November night in 1974, a UVF man named Joe Shaw visited the pub for a drink. While there, he was "ribbed by the regulars about having allowed his local to be closed". A few pints later Shaw and some friends returned to their local, on North Queen St., and opened it up. UDA men patrolling the area had seen the pubs lights on and ordered Shaw and his friends to close the place down and go home. Shaw refused, and the UDA men left, but they returned a short while later with a shotgun, determined to close the pub down. In the brawl that developed Shaw was fatally wounded. A joint statement described it as a tragic accident, although a subsequent UVF inquiry put the blame on Stephen Goatley and John Fulton, both UDA men. With antagonism growing, another man was killed in a drunken brawl on 21 February 1975, this time the UDA's Robert Thompson. This was followed by another pub fight in North Belfast in March and this time the UVF members returned armed and shot and killed both Goatley and Fulton, who had been involved in the earlier fight.

The following month, UDA Colonel Hugh McVeigh and his aide David Douglas were the next to die, kidnapped by the UVF on the Shankill Road and taken to Carrickfergus where they were beaten before being killed near Islandmagee. The UDA initially believed the IRA were responsible and intended to kidnap twenty Catholics in retaliation. The UDA's leadership were persuaded to call off their plan by a Protestant clergyman, who convinced them that the IRA were not involved. After Social Democratic and Labour Party (SDLP) leader John Hume revealed he had been informed of the aborted attacks, UDA chairman Andy Tyrie conceded that had been the UDA's intention but denied the group had planned shoot one hostage a day until the two missing UDA men were released.

The UDA retaliated in East Belfast by attempting to kill UVF leader Ken Gibson, who in turn ordered the UDA's headquarters in the east of the city to be blown up, although this attack also failed. The feud rumbled on for several months in 1976 with a number of people, mostly UDA members, being killed before eventually the two groups came to an uneasy truce.

2000
Although the two organisations had worked together under the umbrella of the Combined Loyalist Military Command, the body crumbled in 1997 and tensions simmered between West Belfast UDA Brigadier Johnny Adair, who had grown weary of the Northern Ireland peace process and the Good Friday Agreement, and the UVF leadership. Adair by this time had forged close links with the dissident LVF, a breakaway group to which the UVF was ardently opposed. Amidst an atmosphere of increasing tension in the area, Adair decided to host a "Loyalist Day of Culture" on the Shankill on Saturday 19 August 2000, which saw thousands of UDA members from across Northern Ireland descend on his Lower Shankill stronghold, where a series of newly commissioned murals were officially unveiled on a day which also featured a huge UDA/UFF parade and armed UDA/UFF show of strength. The UVF leadership had sought and been given assurances that no LVF regalia would be displayed on the Shankill on the day of the procession. However, and unknown to the UDA beyond its "C Company", Adair had an LVF flag delivered to the Lower Shankill on the morning of the celebrations. He planned to have it unfurled as the procession passed the Rex Bar, a UVF haunt, in order to antagonise the UVF and try and drag it into conflict with as much of the UDA as possible. Adair waited until the bulk of the parade of UDA men had made its way up into the heart of the Shankill before initiating the provocative gesture. Violence broke out between UVF men who had been standing outside the Rex watching the procession and the group involved in unfurling the contentious flag, which had been discreetly concealed near the tail end of the parade. Prior to this the atmosphere at the Rex had been jovial, with the UVF spectators even joining in to sing UDA songs along to the tunes of the UDA-aligned flute bands which accompanied the approximately ten thousand UDA men on their parade up the Shankill Road. But vicious fighting ensued, with a roughly three hundred-strong C Company (the name given to the Lower Shankill unit of the UDA's West Belfast Brigade, which contained Adair's most loyal men) mob attacking the patrons of the Rex, initially with hand weapons such as bats and iron bars, before they shot up the bar as its patrons barricaded themselves inside. Also shot up was the Progressive Unionist Party (PUP) headquarters which faced the pub. C Company then went on the rampage in the Lower Shankill, attacking the houses of known UVF members and their families, including the home of veteran UVF leader Gusty Spence, and evicting the inhabitants at gunpoint as they wrecked and stole property and set fire to homes. By the end of the day nearly all those with UVF associations had been driven from the Lower Shankill. Later that night, C Company gunmen shot up the Rex again, this time from a passing car. While most of the UDA guests at Adair's carnival had duly left for home when it became apparent that he was using it to engineer violent conflict with the UVF, festivities nonetheless continued late into the night on the Lower Shankill, where Adair hosted an open air rave party and fireworks display.

The UVF struck back on Monday morning, shooting dead two Adair associates, Jackie Coulter and Bobby Mahood, as they sat in a Range Rover on the Crumlin Road. The UVF also shot up the Ulster Democratic Party headquarters on the Middle Shankill. An hour later Adair's unit burned down the PUP's offices close to Agnes Street, the de facto border between the UVF-dominated Middle and Upper Shankill and the UDA-dominated Lower Shankill. The UVF responded by blowing up the UDP headquarters on the Middle Shankill. Adair was returned to prison by the Secretary of State on 14 September, although the feud continued with four more killed before the end of the year. Violence also spread to North Belfast, where members of the UVF's Mount Vernon unit shot and killed a UDA member, David Greer, in the Tiger's Bay area, sparking a series of killings in that part of the city. In another incident the County Londonderry town of Coleraine saw tumult in the form of an attempted expulsion of UVF members by UDA members, which was successfully resisted by the UVF. But, aside from these exceptions, Adair's attempt to ignite a full-scale war between the two organisations failed, as both the UVF and UDA leaderships moved decisively to contain the trouble within the Shankill area, where hundreds of families had been displaced, and focused on dealing with its source as well as its containment. To Adair's indignation even the "A" and "B" Companies of his West Belfast Brigade of the UDA declined to get involved in C Company's war with the UVF. Eventually a ceasefire was reluctantly agreed upon by the majority of those involved in the feuding after new procedures were established with the aim of preventing the escalation of any future problems between the two organisations, and after consideration was paid to the advice of Gary McMichael and David Ervine, the then leaders of the two political wings of loyalism.

UVF–LVF feuds
The LVF was founded by Billy Wright when he, along with the Portadown unit of the UVF Mid-Ulster Brigade, was stood down by the UVF leadership on 2 August 1996 for breaking the ceasefire. This origin underscored frequent battles between the two movements. Matters had come to a head when Wright's unit killed a Catholic taxi-driver during the Drumcree standoff. Although Wright had been expelled from the UVF, threatened with execution and an order to leave Northern Ireland, which he defied, the feud was largely contained during his life and the two major eruptions came after his death.

1999–2001
Simmering tensions boiled over in a December 1999 incident involving LVF members and UVF Mid-Ulster brigadier Richard Jameson and his men at the Portadown F.C. social club in which the LVF supporters were severely beaten. The LVF members swore revenge and on 10 January 2000 they took it by shooting Jameson dead on the outskirts of Portadown. The UVF retaliated by murdering two Protestant teenagers in Tandragee, who were both suspected of LVF membership and involvement in Jameson's death. As it turned out, the victims, Andrew Robb and David McIlwaine, were not part of any loyalist paramilitary organisation. The UDA's Johnny Adair supported the LVF and used the feud to stoke up the troubles that eventually flared in his feud with the UVF later that year. Meanwhile, the UVF attempted to kill the hitman responsible for killing Jameson, unsuccessfully, before the LVF struck again on 26 May, killing PUP man Martin Taylor in Ballysillan. The LVF then linked up with Johnny Adair's C Company for a time as their feud with the UVF took centre stage.

However, the UVF saw fit to continue the battle in 2001, using its satellite group the Red Hand Commando to kill two of the LVF's leading figures, Adrian Porter and Stephen Warnock. Adair, however, convinced the LVF that the latter killing was the work of one of his rivals in the UDA, Jim Gray, who the LVF then unsuccessfully attempted to assassinate.

2005
In July 2005 the feud came to a conclusion as the UVF made a final move against its rival organisation. The resulting activity led to the deaths of at least four people, all associated with the LVF. As a result of these attacks on 30 October 2005 the LVF announced that its units had been ordered to cease their activity and that it was disbanding. In February 2006, the Independent Monitoring Commission reported that this feud had come to an end.

UDA internal feuds
The UDA, the largest of the loyalist paramilitary groups, has seen a number of internal struggles within its history.

1972–1974
From its beginnings the UDA was wracked by internal problems and in 1972, the movement's first full year of existence, three members, Ingram Beckett, John Brown and Ernest Elliott were killed by other UDA members. The main problems were between East Belfast chief Tommy Herron and Charles Harding Smith, his rival in the west of the city, over who controlled the movement. Although they had agreed to make compromise candidate Andy Tyrie the leader, each man considered himself the true leader. Herron was killed in September 1973 in an attack that remains unsolved.

However, with Tyrie confirmed in overall control of the UDA, Harding Smith initially remained silent until, in 1974, he declared that the West Belfast brigade of the movement was splitting from the mainstream UDA on the pretext of a visit to Libya organised by Tyrie in a failed attempt to procure arms from Colonel Qadaffi. The trip had been roundly criticised by the Unionist establishment and raised cries that the UDA was adopting socialism, and so Harding Smith used it re-ignite his attempts to take charge. Harding Smith survived two separate shootings but crucially lost the support of other leading Shankill Road UDA figures and eventually left Belfast after being visited by North Belfast Brigadier Davy Payne, who warned him that he would not survive a third attack.

1987–1989
South Belfast Brigadier John McMichael was killed by the Provisional IRA in December 1987 but it was later admitted that UDA member James Pratt Craig, a rival of McMichael's within the movement, had played a role in planning the murder. A new generation of leaders emerged at this time and decided that the woes facing the UDA, including a lack of arms and perceived poor leadership by ageing brigadiers, were being caused by the continuing leadership of Andy Tyrie.

Tyrie was forced to resign in March 1988 and the new men, most of whom had been trained up by McMichael, turned on some of the veterans whom Tyrie had protected. Craig was killed, Tommy Lyttle was declared persona non grata and various brigadiers were removed from office, with the likes of Jackie McDonald, Joe English and Jim Gray taking their places.

2002–2003
A second internal feud arose in 2002 when Johnny Adair and former politician John White were expelled from the UDA. Many members of the 2nd Battalion Shankill Road West Belfast Brigade, commonly known as 'C' Company, stood by Adair and White, while the rest of the organisation were involved with attacks on these groups and vice versa. There were four murders; the first victim being a nephew of a leading loyalist opposed to Adair, Jonathon Stewart, killed at a party on 26 December 2002. Roy Green was killed in retaliation. The last victims were John 'Grug' Gregg (noted for a failed attempt on the life of Gerry Adams) and Robert Carson, another Loyalist. Adair's time as leader came to an end on 6 February 2003 when south Belfast brigadier Jackie McDonald led a force of around 100 men onto the Shankill to oust Adair, who promptly fled to England. Adair's former ally Mo Courtney, who had returned to the mainstream UDA immediately before the attack, was appointed the new West Belfast brigadier, ending the feud.

Shortly after the removal of Jimbo Simpson in 2003 a number of incidents where several houses and a business were attacked in the Ballysillan and Glenbryn areas. It is understood a mob of up to 40 of Simpson's supporters attempted to oust the current leadership. Jim 'Jimbo' Simpson - dubbed the 'Bacardi Brigadier' when he was the organisation's north Belfast leader - was believed to have fled Northern Ireland with several supporters shortly after the failed coup.

2006: Shoukris Expulsion from UDA
The other five brigadiers in the UDA leadership decided to expel Andre Shoukri, his brother Ihab, and another associate in June 2006. Bloodshed was averted after a leading member of a breakaway faction left NI and others faced arrest

2013–date: North Belfast Brigade feud
In 2013 it was reported in the Belfast Telegraph that the UDA West Belfast Brigade had become so associated with criminality and racketeering that the three other Belfast-based brigadiers, Jackie McDonald (South Belfast), Jimmy Birch (East Belfast) and John Bunting (North Belfast), no longer felt able to deal with the western leadership. Tensions had been further stoked by a graffiti campaign against Bunting's leadership on the York Road, in which expelled members of the North Belfast Brigade, who had come under the wing of their counterparts in the west, called for Bunting's removal as brigadier. The feud was confirmed in December 2013 when a UDA statement was released acknowledging the existence of a dissident tendency within the North Belfast Brigade but confirming support for Bunting's leadership. However, whilst the statement was signed by McDonald and Birch, no representative of the West Belfast Brigade had added their signature. The north Belfast rebels subsequently named Robert Molyneaux, a convicted killer and former friend of Bunting's closest ally John Howcroft, as their preferred choice for Brigadier. Bunting's opponents criticised his alleged heavy-handed approach, particularly towards Tiger's Bay residents, whilst his supporters claimed that Bunting's attempts to tackle the drugs trade in the area were the real reason behind the attempts to remove him.

As the feud rumbled on Bunting became a target for a number of attacks. In May 2014 Bunting was attacked in Tiger's Bay by a group of opponents. During the brawl Bunting was knocked unconscious and had his mobile phone stolen. Bunting had been visiting the home of one of his internal critics at the time of the incident. In August 2014 as Bunting drove along Duncairn Gardens, a street separating Tiger's Bay from the republican New Lodge area his car was damaged by a pipe bomb thrown at it. Tiger's Bay had emerged as the stronghold of the anti-Bunting faction.

Soon after the latter attack former North Belfast brigadier William Borland, who had become associated with the pro-Molyneaux wing, was attacked with a breeze block and shot in the leg close to his home in Carr's Glen. Following the attack both Bunting and Howcroft were arrested on suspicion of involvement. Along with another associate they were charged with attempting to murder Borland and Andre Shoukri and were remanded in custody. As is standard within the UDA whilst in custody Bunting had to relinquish his role as brigadier although his replacement, a close friend of McDonald's from Taughmonagh in south Belfast identified only as the "Burger King Brigadier" due to his weight, has been reported as merely a figurehead with no actual power. Subsequent reports indicated this brigadier had lasted only two weeks before McDonald replaced him with an unidentified former member of the Loyalist Volunteer Force.

In September 2014 it was reported in the Belfast Telegraph that the leaders of the UDA in North, East and South Belfast, as well as the head of the Londonderry and North Antrim Brigade had met to discuss the feud as well as the schism with the West Belfast Brigade. According to the report they agreed that West Belfast Brigade members loyal to the wider UDA should establish a new command structure for the brigade which would then take the lead in ousting Mo Courtney, Jim Spence and Eric McKee from their existing leadership positions. It was also stated that the West Belfast breakaway leaders had recruited Jimbo Simpson, a former North Belfast brigadier driven out of Northern Ireland over a decade earlier, and were seeking to restore him to his former role. This followed the rejection of earlier overtures to West Belfast brigadier Matt Kincaid as he opted to back Spence and Courtney.

The charges against Bunting were dropped in 2015 after a number of witnesses withdrew their statements, although Bunting did not return as brigadier, his place having been taken by "Big" Bill Hill, a dissident who had been prominent in the Belfast City Hall flag protests. However this new leadership also began a feud with the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF) group in Mount Vernon, a move which was not endorsed by their previous allies in West Belfast. In August 2016 the new leader was reported as having fled to Scotland due to the threat of the Mount Vernon UVF. John Boreland was shot dead soon after this.

In October 2016 it was reported that South Belfast brigadier Jackie McDonald had installed Sam "Bib" Blair, a White City-based veteran who had been kneecapped by supporters of the Shoukris in 2003 after attempting to oust them from the leadership, as the new brigadier. Blair attempted to shore up his position by recruiting former allies of Bunting to his side, having reportedly been only sixth choice for the role with several more prominent figures turning down the job as a "poisoned chalice". However, by June 2017 it was reported that the UDA in North Belfast had disintegrated into three sections: Blair's supporters, a group of dissidents in Tiger's Bay and a further group in Boreland's former stronghold of Ballysillan.

2017–date: South East Antrim Brigade feud
On 13 March 2017 George Gilmore, formerly a commander in the brigade was the target of an assassination for standing up for friends and family who were being bullied by the leadership in Carrickfergus. Gilmore died the following day, with the incident described as part of an ongoing feud in the town. Two men were subsequently charged with the murder. Gilmore had been targeted in an unsuccessful crossbow attack the previous August. The South-east Antrim brigadier, who was not named in reports, stated that any brigade members attending Gilmore's funeral would be expelled.

On 29 May 2017 the South East Antrim UDA murdered an ex member and friend of George Gilmore. Colin Horner was fatally shot in front of his three-year-old son at a busy shopping centre. Police have made various arrests.

UVF internal feuds
The feud between the UVF and the LVF began as an internal feud but quickly changed when Billy Wright established the LVF as a separate organisation. Beyond this the UVF has largely avoided violent internal strife, with only two killings that can be described as being part of an internal feud taking place on Belfast's Shankill Road in late November 1975, with Archibald Waller and Noel Shaw being the two men killed. Several months prior to these killings, Mid-Ulster Brigadier Billy Hanna was shot dead outside his Lurgan home on 27 July 1975, allegedly by his successor, Robin Jackson. This killing, however, was not part of a feud but instead carried out as a form of internal discipline from within the Mid-Ulster Brigade.

title: Loyalist feud


text:
Talk:Views on the 2003 invasion of Iraq

Untitled
I removed this statement for the moment: Following Powell's address, polls show an increase in support within the US.

I googled for polls to support this, and I didn't see any polls. I think it's believable, but I'd be more comfortable if we had a reference and precise numbers before and after. I think precise numbers would be important to hint whether or not the numbers are statistically significant. Loisel 21:19 Feb 6, 2003 (UTC)

 * it's linked at the bottom of the page, with the exact numbers. It's the CNN/NBC poll.

THE ARTICLE IS TOO LARGE TO BE ACCESSED BY MANY BROWSERS AND WILL HAVE TO BE BROKEN UP INTO SECTIONS. JTD 01:43 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)

-

The text originally contained on this page has been broken up among the articles it links to. - Montréalais 05:08 Feb 16, 2003 (UTC)

- I found in lookjapan the statement about Japanese public opinion about War on Iraq.

 * "In a telephone poll conducted by Kyodo News in early February nearly 79% of respondents said they oppose a U.S.-led military attack on Iraq. Just 15.5% expressed support." (Feb 20)

Does anyone know a good place to mentioon about this? -- Taku 06:08 Feb 26, 2003 (UTC)

 * The White House? JTD 06:37 Feb 26, 2003 (UTC)

 * You kidding right? While I completely agree with you, I meant a good article to mention. -- Taku 06:44 Feb 26, 2003 (UTC)

(I was being ironic!!!)

 * I'm afraid the poll result is worthless unless we know the question they asked. Depending on the conditions the respondent is supposed to assume, there can be up to a FIFTY PER CENT VARIATION in the reported level of support, e.g. if there is a UN Security Council veto and US goes in anyway, espect numbers to be low, but if the UN Security Councill supports a new resolution..
 * Iraq crisis, 2003 is the new top level article and focuses on likely impacts. If you like, add 'US-Japan relations' as a potential impact of the crisis, and use this as evidence.

Are you saying we cannot conclude public opinion in Japan is largely against War in Iraq? I just wanted a sentence like this. -- Taku 07:00 Feb 26, 2003 (UTC)
 * YOU may conclude, claim, write and defend this sentence. On the basis of this one poll, I won't.  Perhaps peace marches, other polls, positions of politicians, etc., can be taken as a whole to back up your conclusion.  But don't make such conclusions from one poll whose question we just don't know.

Disambiguation?
This is labeled as a disambiguation page, but that is clearly not what it is: what is being disambiguated? Nor is it an article. It looks to me like it is looking to become a series template. Is there any reason not to turn it into one? -- Jmabel | Talk 07:07, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)

 * I was thinking the exact same thing, I'm not sure about a series template though because this article provides a good one to link to to reach all the others -- Joolz 11:02, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Pro?
Theres American, World, Opposition and Other views, but no specific Pro war section. I feel that the neutrality of this article is in question, as it does not fully represent Pro War opinions. (User:EatAlbertaBeef 30 April 2005. Sig added)
 * Well, it's basically a list of articles. If you feel that there are articles that deserve mention and aren't here, add them. I haven't seen any sign of anyone deleting any links to existing articles. -- Jmabel | Talk 05:48, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)

"Euston Manifesto" sits oddly
The material about the Euston Manifesto sits oddly here. I would suggest that it be handled differently, though I don't have a specific suggestion. - Jmabel | Talk 04:09, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Views on the 2003 invasion of Iraq


text:
Talk:February

WikiProject Time assessment rating comment
Want to help write or improve articles about Time? Join WikiProject Time or visit the Time Portal for a list of articles that need improving.

—Yamara ✉  17:09, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

First sentence not exactly right
The first sentence of the article per 6 February 2011, states that February is the second month in the Julian and Gregorian Calendars. As there are no nations who currently keep the Julian calendar as official calendar, with the exception United Kingdom who are still calculating its fiscal years according to the old calendar (Julian Calendar), it is generally agreed that the year begins with the odd date of 1 January. The idea of January being the first month is an old notion that has prevailed throughout the timespan from the inauguration of the calendar, pertaining to the rise of the Roman Empire - the Julian Calendar - up til the revision of this calendar that concluded in 1581. This revision stated that the correct interpretation of what is the beginning of the year in the Roman Calendar, is that 1 January is the beginning of the year. This revision is colloquially called the Gregorian Calendar. As the Gregorian Calendar incorrectly is referred to as a new calendar, instead of being understood as the revised Roman Calendar, it is neither correct to say that it is entirely wrong to hold that february is the second month in Julian calendars. The Gregorian Revision restates that 1. January is the beginning, thus it (the Curia of th Roman Catholic Church, the actual authority) hold that the Julian Calendar originally had 1. January as the beginning of the year. But most, if not all, nations, who used the Julian Calendar prior to the Gregorian Calendar revision, reckoned Lady Day - 25. March - as the beginning of the year, alternatively the spring equinox; the first new moon, or full moon from this point (i.e. Easter). In such context February is rather the twelfth member of the year, which should make us recall that September, October, November & December litterarily mean Seventh, Eight, Ninth & Tenth member (of the year). I give it to others to make the actual correction in the article--Xact (talk) 19:37, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Discussion
Three times in history a February 30 did occur.

When was that? What was/were the reason(s) for it? D.D. 21:21 Feb 6, 2003 (UTC)

 * See February 30. --ugen64

Augusts removed one day from February
''Numa's Februarius contained 29 days (30 in a leap year). Augustus removed one day from February and added it to August, renamed from Sextilis to honor himself.''

This probably is not true, it is just a long-standing myth. It's more likely that February was always 28/29 days, it was the last month to be added to the calendar after all. See February 30 for details and source.

--Unsigned

The Roman calendar article also states Numa's Februarius was unlucky enough to end up with the even number of 28 days. Even numbers were considered unlucky so it wouldn't make sense to steal the 29th day and give it to another 29-day month. However it wasn't always 28/29 days, since originally the Romans used leap months, not leap days.

--Tharkon (talk) 04:59, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Flowers and stones
February's flower is the carnation.

February's birthstone is the amethyst.

Is this the case everywhere? If not (I've never heard of it), the places where this is valid should be specified, for example "In the United States, February's flower is the carnation.". Thanks. Jørgen 20:36, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

i thought that the birthstone of february was ruby?? hanabi-sama 23:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I had always heard the birthstone of the Aquarius zodiac sign was amethyst. --黒雲 user:Qaddosh 01:30, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Roman in 700 BC
This change was made by Numa Pompilius about 700 BC in order to bring the calendar in line with a standard lunar year.

Rome didn't exist in 700 BC.

--Unsigned

According to legend, the first king of Rome was Romulus, who founded the city in 753 BC upon the Palatine Hill. Source: King of Rome

The Roman Kingdom was founded in 753 BC. The Roman Republic in 509 BC, and the Roman Empire in 27 BC.

That is probably what confused you.

--Tharkon (talk) 05:04, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Recent edit
Regarding this diff, all I have to say is "Duh! Everybody knows it's not "Poonsday..." It's "Pwnsday!""

Vandalism?
Under the Events in February section there was National "Shake Your Booty" month. If this is true, please provide a source. --Cory Kohn 01:00, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Actually it is in fact, a actual thing. my sources are this link:www.quizilla.com/users/7.raven.7/journal/2-2007/ - 27k. and if you still don't beleive me, type in National Shake Your Booty Month in the Google toolbar. I'm going to add that in the

article because it is actually real. it's been celebrated ever since 1997.

 * I added it.

February 31
Why is February 31 redirected to February? And also in April, June, September, and November? Those months don't even have 31 days anyway. Whoever made those redirects, those shall be erased and deleted. 69.111.225.37, 03:40 3 March 2007 (UTC)

National Days
Removed from article:

 * National Bird-Feeding Month
 * National Hot Breakfast Month

As the nation in which they occur is not specified.

Intro
The intro needs to be checked for clarity. Specifically the paragraph beginning with "Having only 28 days in common years...". To me it seems like a useless fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shicoco (talk • contribs) 22:50, 29 October 2008

"Full 7-day weeks"
'' It is also the only month of the calendar that once every six years and twice every 11 years, will have only four full 7-day weeks.

It has four full 7-day weeks most of the time.

The article then goes on to pseudo-clarify:

'' Where the first day of the month starts on a Monday and the last day ends on a Sunday, this was observed in 2010

But I thought the usual 7-day week started on Sunday and ended on Saturday? That's how all my calendars ever printed it, anyway. 203.217.22.128 (talk) 22:17, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

 * Traditionally, yes, the week starts on Sunday but some follow the idea that it starts on Monday. The statement is incorrectly worded.  If this occurs once every six years, then it'll occur eleven times in sixty-six years.  If it occurs twice every eleven years, then it'll occur twelve times in sixty-six years.  Taken literally it contradicts itself.  It should say that it occurs at intervals of six then eleven then eleven years with the pattern repeating until a skipped leap year (1800, 1900, 2100, etc.) gets in the way.  The paragraph would need a big clean up but is it really even worth it?  Is there really any use in keeping this piece of trivia?  Just delete it. J IM ptalk·cont 17:13, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Pronunciation
/ˈfɛbuːˌɛri/ (FEB-oo-ERR-ee) is another common pronunciation. Kostaki mou (talk) 23:44, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

I know a lot of people that say FEBBREE mostly in London and the South East 86.136.170.58 (talk) 16:58, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

(harrumphs crustily) Some people pronounce it "FEB-you-erry" in the same way that some people pronounce nuclear "nook-you-ler" Captain Pedant (talk) 09:48, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Years with 4-row February
Within the period from 2000 to 2399, there are exactly 44 years for which February needs exactly 4 Sun–Sat rows: 2009, 2015, 2026, 2037, 2043, 2054, 2065, 2071, 2082, 2093, 2099, 2105, 2111, 2122, 2133, 2139, 2150, 2161, 2167, 2178, 2189, 2195, 2201, 2207, 2218, 2229, 2235, 2246, 2257, 2263, 2274, 2285, 2291, 2303, 2314, 2325, 2331, 2342, 2353, 2359, 2370, 2381, 2387, and 2398. GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 15:36, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 one external links on February. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131102060918/http://www.dobrova-polhovgradec.si/doc/priponke/koledar%20prir%2007%20zadnji.pdf to http://www.dobrova-polhovgradec.si/doc/priponke/koledar%20prir%2007%20zadnji.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160129072305/http://www.drukpa.com/announcements/266-chotrul-duchen-prayer-2015 to http://www.drukpa.com/announcements/266-chotrul-duchen-prayer-2015

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 09:45, 30 December 2016 (UTC)

Open RfC related to this article
See Talk:List_of_month-long_observances. --MoonyTheDwarf (Braden N.) (talk) 01:55, 12 November 2019 (UTC)

days in February - leap years sometimes skipped
The rule about leap years is incomplete. According to https://aa.usno.navy.mil/faq/leap_years, the complete rule should be: -- ' According to the Gregorian calendar, which is the civil calendar in use today, years evenly divisible by 4 are leap years, with the exception of centurial years that are not evenly divisible by 400. Therefore, the years 1700, 1800, 1900 and 2100 are not leap years, but 1600, 2000, and 2400 are leap years. ' -- The numbers 100 and 400 are not mentioned anywhere in this article, giving the impression that the simple "divisible by four" leap year rule is complete ...but it's not. The exceptions to make the calendar year line up more exactly with the astronomical year are sometimes called "skipped" leap years. 73.68.110.155 (talk) 19:57, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Audio pronuciation for feb-roo-ary variant?
It would be nice to have an audio example for February in the alternate (correct) pronunciation, since there is even an audio for January which seems kind of out of place in an article about February. 76.64.190.222 (talk) 22:47, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:February