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Cumae

Cumae (Κύμη or Κύμαι or Κύμα ; Cuma) was the first ancient Greek colony of Magna Graecia on the mainland of Italy and was founded by settlers from Euboea in the 8th century BC. It became a rich Roman city, the remains of which lie near the modern village of Cuma, a frazione of the comune Bacoli and Pozzuoli in the Metropolitan City of Naples, Campania, Italy.

The archaeological museum of the Campi Flegrei in the Aragonese castle contains many finds from Cumae.

Early

The oldest archaeological finds by Emil Stevens in 1896 date to 900–850 BC and more recent excavations have revealed a Bronze Age settlement of the ‘pit-culture’ people, and later dwellings of Iron Age Italic peoples whom the Greeks referred to by the names Ausones and Opici (whose land was called Opicia).

The Greek settlement was founded in the 8th century BCE by emigrants from cities of Eretria and Chalcis in Euboea, next to an Opician settlement. The Greeks were already established at nearby Pithecusae (modern Ischia) and were led to Cumae by the joint oecists (founders): Megasthenes of Chalcis and Hippocles of Cyme.

The site chosen was on the hill and later acropolis of Monte di Cuma surrounded on one side by the sea, and on the other by particularly fertile ground on the edge of the Campanian plain. While continuing their maritime and commercial traditions, the settlers of Cumae strengthened their political and economic power by exploitation of the land and extended their territory at the expense of neighbouring peoples.

The colony thrived and in the 8th century BCE it was already strong enough to send Perieres to found Zancle in Sicily, and another group to found Tritaea in Achaea, Pausanias was told. Cuma established its dominance over almost the entire Campanian coast up to Punta Campanella over the 7th and 6th centuries BCE, gaining sway over Puteoli and Misenum.

The colony spread Greek culture in Italy and introduced a dialect of Greek, and the Euboean alphabet, a variant of which was adapted and modified by the Etruscans and then re‑adapted by the Romans and became the Latin alphabet, still used worldwide today.

According to Dionysius of Halicarnassus,
 * Cumae was at that time celebrated throughout all Italy for its riches, power, and all the other advantages, as it possessed the most fertile part of the Campanian plain and was mistress of the most convenient havens round about Misenum.

The growing power of the Cumaean Greeks led many indigenous tribes of the region to organise against them, notably the Dauni and Aurunci with the leadership of the Capuan Etruscans. This coalition was defeated by the Cumaeans in 524 BCE at the first Battle of Cumae under the direction of Aristodemus. The glorious victories of the colony increased its prestige, so much so that according to Diodorus Siculus, it was usual to associate the whole region of the Phlegraean Fields with Cumaean territory.

At this time the Roman senate sent agents to Cumae to purchase grain in anticipation of a siege of Rome. Then in 505 BCE Aristodemus led a Cumaean contingent to assist the Latin city of Aricia in defeating the Etruscan forces of Clusium (see also War between Clusium and Aricia) and having attained the people's favour he overthrew the aristocratic faction and became a tyrant himself. It was probably at this point that Cumae founded Neapolis (“new city”) in the late 6th century BCE.

Further contact between the Romans and the Cumaeans occurred during the reign of Aristodemus. Tarquinius, the last of the legendary Kings of Rome, lived his life in exile with Aristodemus at Cumae after the Battle of Lake Regillus and died there in 495 BCE. Livy records that Aristodemus became the heir of Tarquinius, and in 492 BCE when Roman envoys travelled to Cumae to purchase grain, Aristodemus seized the envoys' vessels on account of the property of Tarquinius which had been seized at the time of Tarquinius' exile.

Eventually, the dispossessed nobles and their sons were able to take over Cumae in 490 BCE, and executed Aristodemus.

The combined fleets of Cumae and Syracuse (on Sicily) defeated the Etruscans at the Battle of Cumae in 474 BCE.

The temple of Apollo sent the revered Sibylline Books to Rome in the 5th c. BCE. Also Rome obtained its priestesses who administered the important cult of Ceres from the temple of Demeter in Cumae.

Oscan and Roman Cumae

The Greek period at Cumae came to an end in 421 BC, when the Oscans allied to the Samnites broke down the walls and took the city, ravaging the countryside. Some survivors fled to Neapolis.

The walls on the acropolis were rebuilt from 343 BC. Cumae came under Roman rule with Capua and in 338 BC was granted partial citizenship, a civitas sine suffragio. In the Second Punic War, in spite of temptations to revolt from Roman authority, Cumae withstood Hannibal's siege, under the leadership of Tib. Sempronius Gracchus.

The city prospered in the Roman period from the 1st c. BC along with all the cities of Campania and especially the bay of Naples as it became a desirable area for wealthy Romans who built large villas along the coast. The "central baths" and the amphitheatre are built.

During the civil wars Cumae was one of the strongholds that Octavian used to defend against Sextus Pompey. Under Augustus extensive public building works and roads were begun and in or near Cumae several road tunnels were dug: one through the Monte di Cumae linking the forum with the port, the Grotta di Cocceio 1 km long to Lake Avernus and a third, the "Crypta Romana", 180m long between Lake Lucrino and Lake Averno. The temples of Apollo and Demeter were restored.

The proximity to Puteoli, the commercial port of Rome and to Misenum, the naval fleet base, also helped the region to prosper.

Another very important innovation was the construction of the great Serino aqueduct, the Aqua Augusta supplying many of the cities in the area from about 20 BC. Domitian's via Domitiana provided an important highway to the via Appia and thence to Rome from 95 AD.

The early presence of Christianity in Cumae is shown by the 2nd-century AD work The Shepherd of Hermas, in which the author tells of a vision of a woman, identified with the church, who entrusts him with a text to read to the presbyters of the community in Cuma. At the end of the 4th century, the temple of Zeus at Cumae was transformed into a Christian basilica.

The first historically documented bishop of Cumae was Adeodatus, a member of a synod convoked by Pope Hilarius in Rome in 465. Another was Misenus, who was one of the two legates that Pope Felix III sent to Constantinople and who were imprisoned and forced to receive Communion with Patriarch Acacius of Constantinople in a celebration of the Divine Liturgy in which Peter Mongus and other Miaphysites were named in the diptychs, an event that led to the Acacian Schism. Misenus was excommunicated on his return but was later rehabilitated and took part as bishop of Cumae in two synods of Pope Symmachus. Pope Gregory the Great entrusted the administration of the diocese of Cumae to the bishop of Misenum. Later, both Misenum and Cumae ceased to be residential sees and the territory of Cumae became part of the diocese of Aversa after the destruction of Cumae in 1207. Accordingly, Cumae is today listed by the Catholic Church as a titular see.

Under Roman rule, so-called "quiet Cumae" was peaceful until the disasters of the Gothic Wars (535–554), when it was repeatedly attacked, as the only fortified city in Campania aside from Neapolis: Belisarius took it in 536, Totila held it, and when Narses gained possession of Cumae, he found he had won the whole treasury of the Goths.

Diocese of Cuma(e)
A bishopric was established around 450 AD. In 700 it gained territory from the suppressed Diocese of Miseno.

In 1207 it was suppressed when forces from Naples, acting for the boy-King of Sicily, destroyed the city and its walls, as the stronghold of a nest of bandits. Its territory was divided and merged into the Roman Catholic Diocese of Aversa and Roman Catholic Diocese of Pozzuoli. Some of the citizens from Cumae, including the clergy and the cathedral capitular, took shelter in Giugliano.

Resident bishops

 * Saint Massenzio (300? – ?)
 * Rainaldo (1073? – 1078?)
 * Giovanni (1134? – 1141?)
 * Gregorio (1187? – ?)
 * Leone (1207? – ?)

Titular see
In 1970, the diocese was nominally restored as a Latin titular see. The title has been held by:
 * Bishop Louis-Marie-Joseph de Courrèges d’Ustou (1970.09.02 – 1970.12.10)
 * Archbishop Edoardo Pecoraio (1971.12.28 – 1986.08.09)
 * Bishop Julio María Elías Montoya, O.F.M.

Archaeology
Despite the abandonment of the area of Cumae due to the formation of marshes, the memory of the ancient city remained alive. The ruins, although in a state of neglect, were later visited by many artists and with the repopulation of the area due to land reclamation, short excavation campaigns were made. The first excavations date to 1606 when thirteen statues and two marble bas-reliefs were found; later finds included the large statue of Jupiter from the Masseria del Gigante exhibited at the National Archaeological Museum of Naples. However, after the discovery of the Vesuvian sites the attention of the Bourbon explorers was diverted there and the Cumae area was abandoned and plundered of numerous finds which were then sold to private individuals. A first campaign of systematic excavations took place between 1852 and 1857 under Prince Leopoldo, brother of Ferdinando II of the Two Sicilies when the area of the Masseria del Gigante and some necropoles were explored. Later Emilio Stevens was given the concession and worked at Cumae between 1878 and 1893, completing the excavation of the necropolis, even though news of the various finds led to a continuous looting of the area.

A disaster occurred between 1910 and 1922 when draining of Lake Licola caused part of the necropolis to be destroyed.

The explorations of the acropolis started in 1911, bringing to light the Temple of Apollo. Between 1924 and 1934 Amedeo Maiuri and Vittorio Spinazzola investigated the Temple of Jupiter, the Cave of the Sibyl and the Crypta Romana, while between 1938 and 1953 the lower city was explored. A chance discovery occurred in 1992 when during the construction of a gas pipeline near the beach a temple of Isis was discovered. In 1994 the "Kyme" project was activated for the restoration of the site. Excavation of the tholos tomb was completed, first partly explored in 1902. In the area of the forum a basilica-shaped building, the Aula Sillana, was discovered, while along the coastline three maritime villas were found.

Since 2001 the CNRS has been excavating a necropolis dating from 6th to 1st c. BC outside the Porta mediana.

In June 2018 a painted tomb dating to the 2nd century BC and depicting a banquet scene was discovered.

Development of the ancient city
The ancient city was divided into two zones, namely the acropolis and the lower part on the plains and the coast. The acropolis was accessible only from the south side and it was on this area that the first nucleus of the city developed crossed by a road called Via Sacra leading to the main temples. The road began with two towers, one of which collapsed with part of the hill and the other was restored in the Byzantine era and is still visible. The lower city developed from the Samnite period and to a greater extent during the Roman age.

The lower city was defended by walls and during the Greek age the acropolis had probably the same type of defences, even if the remains today dating back to the 6th century BC are only on the southeastern part of the hill perhaps also used as retaining walls of the ridge.

In the 6th c. BC temples were built in tufa, wood and terracotta. Columns, cornices and capitals were made of yellow tufa, roofs and architraves of wood and to protect the overhang, terracotta tiles and elaborate antefix decorations. The city and acropolis walls were built from 505 BC, as well as the Sibyl's cave.

When the city was allied with the Romans in 338 BC a new temple was built with exceptional painted friezes and ornamentation which have been discovered though the temple was destroyed after a few decades by fire.

Between the Punic Wars and the adoption of Latin as the official trading language (180 BC) the city walls were restored and a large stadium built west of the Porta mediana. The central baths were built and major work was done on the acropolis temples. From the end of the 2nd c. BC Cumae's architecture became increasingly romanised.

The Augustan age saw many fine new buildings in the city such as the basilica or "Sullan Aula" south of the forum, decorated with polychrome marble. Water supply to the town was increased by an extension to the town of the great Serino aqueduct, the Aqua Augusta, after 20 BC and paid for by local benefactors, the Lucceii family, praetors of the city, who also built an elaborate nymphaeum in the forum as well as several other monuments and buildings.

In the 1st c. AD the "Temple of the Giant" was built, so-called because the famous giant bust of Jupiter (now in Naples Archaeological Museum) was discovered in its ruins; the walls of the temple are incorporated into a later farmhouse.

After Mount Vesuvius erupted in 79 AD, survivors from Herculaneum came to Cumae and it became a well prosperous town.

Surviving ancient monuments
The visible monuments include:
 * Temple of Diana
 * Capitoline temple of Jupiter, Juno and Minerva
 * Temple of Isis
 * Temple of Demeter
 * Temple of Apollo
 * The Acropolis
 * Arco Felice
 * The Forum
 * Grotta di Cocceio
 * Crypta Romana
 * Masseria del Gigante

Arco Felice
The Arco Felice was a 20 m high monumental entrance to the city built in a cut through Monte Grillo which Domitian made in 95 AD to avoid the long detour imposed by the via Appia, and allow easier access to Cumae along what was later called the via Domitiana while the bridge also carried a road along the ridge of the hill. It was built of brick and tiled in marble, and surmounted by two rows of arches of lighter concrete covered with brick. The piers had three niches on both sides where statues were placed.

The via Domitiana, whose paving is still perfectly preserved and is in continuous use today, connected to the via Appia, the artery of communication with Rome, as well as with Pozzuoli and Naples.

The arch probably replaced a smaller gate from Greek times and in a higher position.

Crypta Romana
The Crypta Romana is a tunnel dug into the tufa under the Cuma hill, crossing the acropolis in an east-west direction, giving an easier route from the city to the sea. Its construction is part of the set of military enhancement works built by Agrippa for Augustus and designed by Lucius Cocceius Auctus in 37 BC, including the construction of the new Portus Iulius and its connection with the port of Cumae through the so-called Grotta di Cocceio and the Crypta Romana itself.

With the displacement of the fleet from Portus Iulius to the port of Miseno in 12 BC and the end of the Civil War between Octavian and Mark Antony in 31 BC the tunnel lost its strategic value. The forum entrance was made monumental with 4 statue niches in 95 AD at the same time as the Arco Felice was built. An avalanche closed the sea entrance in the 3rd c. After 397 it was reopened. In the Christian age it was used as a cemetery area; in the 6th c. the Byzantine general Narsete tried to use it to reach the city during the siege of Cumae, but weakened the structure and a large section of the vault collapsed.

It was brought to light between 1925 and 1931 by the archaeologist Amedeus Maiuri.

Mythology
Cumae is perhaps most famous as the seat of the Cumaean Sibyl. Her sanctuary is now open to the public.

In Roman mythology, there is an entrance to the underworld located at Avernus, a crater lake near Cumae, and was the route Aeneas used to descend to the Underworld.

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Sibyl

The sibyls (αἱ Σῐ́βυλλαι, singular Σῐ́βυλλᾰ) were prophetesses or oracles in Ancient Greece. The sibyls prophesied at holy sites. A sibyl at Delphi has been dated to as early as the eleventh century BC by Pausanias when he described local traditions in his writings from the second century AD. At first, there appears to have been only a single sibyl. By the fourth century BC, there appear to have been at least three more, Phrygian, Erythraean, and Hellespontine. By the first century BC, there were at least ten sibyls, located in Greece, Italy, the Levant, and Asia Minor.

History
The English word sibyl ( or ) is from Middle English, via the Old French sibile and the Latin sibylla from the ancient Greek (Sibylla). Varro derived the name from an Aeolic sioboulla, the equivalent of Attic theobule ("divine counsel"). This etymology is not accepted in modern handbooks, which list the origin as unknown. There have been alternative proposals in nineteenth-century philology suggesting Old Italic or Semitic derivation.

The first known Greek writer to mention a sibyl is (based on the testimony of Plutarch) Heraclitus (fl. 500 BC): "The Sibyl, with frenzied mouth uttering things not to be laughed at, unadorned and unperfumed, yet reaches to a thousand years with her voice by aid of the god." Walter Burkert observes that "frenzied women from whose lips the god speaks" are recorded very much earlier in the Near East, as in Mari in the second millennium and in Assyria in the first millennium".

Until the literary elaborations of Roman writers, sibyls were not identified by a personal name, but by names that refer to the location of their temenos, or shrine.

In Pausanias, Description of Greece, the first sibyl at Delphi mentioned ("the former" [earlier]) was of great antiquity, and was thought, according to Pausanias, to have been given the name "sibyl" by the Libyans. Sir James Frazer calls the text defective.

The second sibyl referred to by Pausanias, and named "Herophile", seems to have been based ultimately in Samos, but visited other shrines, at Clarus, Delos, and Delphi and sang there, but that at the same time, Delphi had its own sibyl.

James Frazer writes, in his translation and commentary on Pausanias, that only two of the Greek sibyls were historical: Herophile of Erythrae, who is thought to have lived in the eighth century BC, and Phyto of Samos who lived somewhat later. He observes that the Greeks at first seemed to have known only one sibyl, and instances Heraclides Ponticus as the first ancient writer to distinguish several sibyls: Heraclides names at least three sibyls, the Phrygian, the Erythraean, and the Hellespontine. The scholar David S. Potter writes, "In the late fifth century BC it does appear that 'Sibylla' was the name given to a single inspired prophetess".

Like Heraclitus, Plato speaks of only one sibyl, but in course of time the number increased to nine, with a tenth, the Tiburtine Sibyl, probably Etruscan in origin, added by the Romans. According to Lactantius' Divine Institutions (Book 1, Ch. 6), Varro (first century BC) lists these ten: the Persian, the Libyan, the Delphic, the Cimmerian, the Erythræan, the Samian, the Cumæan, the Hellespontine (in Trojan territory), the Phrygian (at Ancyra), and the Tiburtine (named Albunea).

Cimmerian Sibyl
Naevius names the Cimmerian Sibyl in his books of the Punic War and Piso in his annals.

Evander, the son of Sibyl, founded in Rome the shrine of Pan that is called the Lupercal.

Cumaean Sibyl
The sibyl who most concerned the Romans was the Cumaean Sibyl, located near the Greek city of Naples, whom Virgil's Aeneas consults before his descent to the lower world (Aeneid book VI: 10). Burkert notes (1985, p. 117) that the conquest of Cumae by the Oscans in the fifth century destroyed the tradition, but provides a terminus ante quem for a Cumaean sibyl. She is said to have sold the original Sibylline books to Tarquinius Superbus, the last king of Rome. In Virgil's Fourth Eclogue, the Cumaean sibyl foretells the coming of a savior—possibly a flattering reference to the poet's patron, Augustus. Christians later identified this saviour as Jesus.

Delphic Sibyl
The Delphic Sibyl was a woman who prophesied before the Trojan Wars (c. eleventh century BC). She was noted by Pausanias in his writing during the second century AD about local traditions in Greece. This earliest documented Delphic Sibyl would have predated by hundreds of years the priestess of Apollo active at the oracle from around the eighth century BC who was known as Pythia. As Greek religion passed through transitions to the pantheon of the Classical Greeks that is most familiar to modern readers, Apollo had become the deity represented by Pythia and those who then officiated at the already ancient oracle.

Erythraean Sibyl
The Erythraean Sibyl was sited at Erythrae, a town in Ionia opposite Chios.

Apollodorus of Erythrae affirms the Erythraean Sibyl to have been his own countrywoman and to have predicted the Trojan War and prophesied to the Greeks who were moving against Ilium both that Troy would be destroyed and that Homer would write falsehoods.

The word acrostic was first applied to the prophecies of the Erythraean Sibyl, which were written on leaves and arranged so that the initial letters of the leaves always formed a word.

Hellespontine Sibyl
The Hellespontine, or Trojan Sibyl, presided over the Apollonian oracle at Dardania.

The Hellespontian Sibyl was born in the village of Marpessus near the small town of Gergitha, during the lifetimes of Solon and Cyrus the Great. Marpessus, according to Heraclides of Pontus, was formerly within the boundaries of the Troad. The sibylline collection at Gergis was attributed to the Hellespontine Sibyl and was preserved in the temple of Apollo at Gergis. Thence it passed to Erythrae, where it became famous.

Libyan Sibyl
The so-called Libyan Sibyl was identified with prophetic priestesses presiding over the ancient Zeus-Amon (Zeus represented with the horns of Amon) oracle at the Siwa Oasis in the Western Desert of Egypt. The oracle here was consulted by Alexander after his conquest of Egypt. The mother of the Libyan Sibyl was Lamia, the daughter of Poseidon. Euripides mentions the Libyan Sibyl in the prologue to his tragedy Lamia.

Persian Sibyl
The Persian Sibyl was said to be a prophetic priestess presiding over the Apollonian Oracle; although her location remained vague enough so that she might be called the "Babylonian Sibyl", the Persian Sibyl is said to have foretold the exploits of Alexander the Great. Also named Sambethe, she was reported to be of the family of Noah. The second-century AD traveller Pausanias, pausing at Delphi to enumerate four sibyls, mentions the "Hebrew Sibyl" who was"brought up in Israel named Sabbe, whose father was Berosus and her mother Erymanthe. Some say she was a Babylonian, while others call her an Egyptian Sibyl."

The medieval Byzantine encyclopedia, the Suda, credits the Hebrew Sibyl as author of the Sibylline oracles.

Phrygian Sibyl
The Phrygian Sibyl is most well known for being conflated with Cassandra, Priam's daughter in Homer's Iliad. The Phrygian Sibyl appears to be a doublet of the Hellespontine Sibyl.

Samian Sibyl
The Samian sibyl's oracular site was at Samos.

Tiburtine Sibyl
To the classical sibyls of the Greeks, the Romans added a tenth, the Tiburtine Sibyl, whose seat was the ancient Sabino–Latin town of Tibur (modern Tivoli). The mythic meeting of Augustus with the Sibyl, of whom he inquired whether he should be worshiped as a god, was a favored motif of Christian artists. Whether the sibyl in question was the Etruscan Sibyl of Tibur or the Greek Sibyl of Cumae is not always clear. The Christian author Lactantius had no hesitation in identifying the sibyl in question as the Tiburtine Sibyl, nevertheless. He gave a circumstantial account of the pagan sibyls that is useful mostly as a guide to their identifications, as seen by fourth-century Christians: "The Tiburtine Sibyl, by name Albunea, is worshiped at Tibur as a goddess, near the banks of the Anio, in which stream her image is said to have been found, holding a book in her hand. Her oracular responses the Senate transferred into the capitol. (Divine Institutes I.vi)"

An apocalyptic pseudo-prophecy exists, attributed to the Tiburtine Sibyl, written c. AD 380, but with revisions and interpolations added at later dates. It purports to prophesy the advent of a final emperor named Constans, vanquishing the foes of Christianity, bringing about a period of great wealth and peace, ending paganism, and converting the Jews. After vanquishing Gog and Magog, the emperor is said to resign his crown to God. This would give way to the Antichrist. Ippolito d'Este rebuilt the Villa d'Este at Tibur, the modern Tivoli, from 1550 onward, and commissioned elaborate fresco murals in the Villa that celebrate the Tiburtine Sibyl, as prophesying the birth of Christ to the classical world.

Sibylline books
The sayings of sibyls and oracles were notoriously open to interpretation (compare Nostradamus) and were constantly used for both civil and cult propaganda. These sayings and sibyls should not be confused with the extant sixth-century collection of Sibylline Oracles, which typically predict disasters rather than prescribe solutions.

Some genuine Sibylline verses are preserved in the second-century Book of Marvels of Phlegon of Tralles. The oldest collection of written Sibylline Books appears to have been made about the time of Solon and Cyrus at Gergis on Mount Ida in the Troad. The sibyl, who was born near there, at Marpessus, and whose tomb was later marked by the temple of Apollo built upon the archaic site, appears on the coins of Gergis, c. 400–350 BCE. (cf. Phlegon, quoted in the fifth-century geographical dictionary of Stephanus of Byzantium, under 'Gergis'). Other places claimed to have been her home. The sibylline collection at Gergis was attributed to the Hellespontine Sibyl and was preserved in the temple of Apollo at Gergis. Thence it passed to Erythrae, where it became famous. It was this very collection, it would appear, which found its way to Cumae and from Cumae to Rome. Gergis, a city of Dardania in the Troad, a settlement of the ancient Teucri, and, consequently, a town of very great antiquity. Gergis, according to Xenophon, was a place of much strength. It had a temple sacred to Apollo Gergithius, and was said to have given birth to the sibyl, who is sometimes called Erythraea, ‘from Erythrae,’ a small place on Mount Ida, and at others Gergithia ‘of Gergis’.

Classic sibyls

 * John Burnet Early Greek Philosophy, 63., 64. brief analysis, 65. the fragments
 * Jewish Encyclopedia: Sibyl.

Music

 * El Cant de la Sibil-la / Mallorca / València (1400–1560) – Montserrat Figueras, Jordi Savall – La Capella Reial de Catalunya – Alia Vox 9806
 * El Cant de la Sibil-la / Catalunya – Montserrat Figueras, Jordi Savall – La Capella Reial de Catalunya – Alia Vox AVSA9879
 * The Song of the Sybil – Track 4 – 3:45 – Aion (1990) – Dead Can Dance

Medieval Christianizing sibyls

 * Late Gothic illustrations of twelve sibyls

Modern sibyl imagery

 * A sardonic sequence of 'Twelve Sibyls', accompanied by the artist Leonard Baskin's woodcuts, revisits Sibyls and Others (1980). Ruth Fainlight has written dozens of poems about these ambiguous figures, bridging religion, classical and Biblical settings, femininity and modernity. One of them concludes: 'I am no more conscious of the prophecies / than I can understand the language of birds /…let the simple folk praise you, / keep you safe as a caged bird, / and call you a sibyl'.
 * Pjetër Bogdani, "The Songs of the Ten Sibyls" modern poetry, translated from Albanian
 * T.S. Eliot's The Waste Land is prefaced by a quote from Petronius' Satyricon (1st century AD) The passage translates roughly as "I saw with my own eyes the Sibyl at Cumae hanging in a jar, and when the boys said to her 'Sibyl, what do you want?' that one replied 'I want to die'.
 * The SIBYLS beamline at the Advanced Light Source in Berkeley, CA.

title: Sibyl


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Talk:Claddagh

Untitled
This is my first visit to wikipedia, so i'm just going to throw in some comments about this page and see what happens.

I would have thought that the word "river", as in Corrib River, should carry an uppercase "R", as should "City" in Galway City (by the way, it only became a city in the 1980s - it was just a town of about 30,000 up to the mid 1980s.

Also, traditionally there was a King of the Claddagh. Some say the last king died in the 1930s, but when I lived there (the 80s again) the king was a Mr Curran.

I have just contributed this feature all about the Claddagh Village, the paragraph below needs a slight amendment. If anyone has old photographs of The Claddagh and can illustrate this feature, it would be wounderful!!

Richard P.

Originally the Claddagh ring was a marriage ring and symbol of a person’s status combined. Many visitors when visiting Galway buy the Claddagh Ring. It is a gold ring with two hands enclosing a heart surmounted by a crown. The Claddagh people used it as a marriage ring. It is said that when worn on the right hand, if the heart is turned outwards it shows that the heart is not engaged; when warn on the left hand with the heart turned inwards it means that she is promised to another. Claddagh people also had their own marriage customs, and rarely married anyone outside the village.

Richard, I don't want to discourage you but what you've written here appears to be a personal essay. Comments such as "My grandmother then had to make a living for herself as she was at that time bringing up a family of four children, my mum included, who had been given the nickname of 'Gusheen.' " etc.. are completely inappropriate for an encyclopedia article that can/ and probably will be, edited by thousands of people. All Wikipedia articles must be written from a neutral perspective. Also I believe there is already another article about the Claddagh ring. Much of the content regarding the ring would be more appropriate in that article. This article is about the town and should concentrate on the town. Also as it is the nature of Wikipedia articles to have a multitude of contributors, personal by-lines are not allowed. The contributors to an article can be seen in the article's history page. I am afraid I will have to revert this page back to the way it was before your contribution. You text will not be lost is can be retrieved from the history of this page. Mintguy (T) 12:54, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I suggest you also look at What Wikipedia is not Mintguy (T)

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The Claddagh?
There should be an explanation of the addition of "The" to the name, which doesn't appear in the lede section but is used in the body of the article, in both mentions of the town. It certainly isn't a general pattern in US or UK English, but seems to be an Irish custom.

Thnidu (talk) 15:39, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Claddagh


text:
Verden an der Aller

Verden an der Aller (Northern Low Saxon: Veern), also called Verden (Aller) or simply Verden, is a town in Lower Saxony, Germany, on the river Aller. It is the district town of the district of Verden in Lower Saxony and an independent municipality (de:Selbständige Gemeinde). The town is located in the middle Weser region on the Aller river immediately before it flows into the Weser. As a center of horse breeding and equestrian sports, it bears the nickname "equestrian town". The suffix "Aller" was introduced at a time when the name "Verden" was also common for the French town of Verdun in the German-speaking area. The town name comes from "ford" or "ferry". The town was conveniently located at a ford through the Aller river, near an important trade route.

Verden is famous for a massacre of Saxons in 782, committed on the orders of Charlemagne (the Massacre of Verden), for its cathedral, and for its horse-breeding.

History
In the Early Middle Ages (year 782) there was a massacre of allegedly 4,500 Saxons, by order of Charlemagne because of their involvement in a preceding uprising. Verden was then within the Duchy of Saxony.

After in 1180 a coalition of Emperor Frederick I Barbarossa and his allies had defeated the then Saxo-Bavarian Duke Henry the Lion. Henry was subsequently stripped of his duchies. Saxony was divided among the imperial coalitionaries and so the Catholic Bishop of Verden gained imperial immediacy for parts of his diocesan territory, thus establishing the Prince-Bishopric of Verden.

On 12 March 1259 Prince-Bishop Gerhard of Verden granted the place town privileges following the Bremian version of German town law. In the 15th century Verden gained considerable independence as a Free Imperial City, immediately under the emperors (imperial immediacy), circumventing its former overlords the prince-bishops, who still held the cathedral and pertaining premises in town as a cathedral immunity district.

By the Peace of Westphalia the city of Verden was mediatised as regular city again within the Prince-Bishopric of Verden, which was transformed by the same contract into the Principality of Verden in May 1648. The northern city (with the town hall and St. John's church) and the southern town (with the proto-cathedral) were then united to form one city.

In 1675, during the Swedish-Brandenburg War, Verden was conquered by several states of the Holy Roman Empire and Denmark following the Bremen-Verden Campaign and remained in allied hands until the end of the war in 1679. In the wake of the Treaty of Saint-Germain in 1679, Verden was returned to Sweden.

The Principality of Verden was first ruled in personal union by the Swedish Crown – interrupted by a Danish occupation (1712–1715) – and from 1715 on by the Hanoverian Crown. The Kingdom of Hanover incorporated the principality in a real union and the princely territory, including Verden upon Aller, became part of the new Stade Region, established in 1823.

Until the Second World War, Verden was renowned for its trade and crafts and also its mounted division. During the Nazi regime forced-labourers were used in a furniture factory in Verden. Between 1945 and 1949 Verden was part of the British zone of occupation. Refugees from the former Prussian provinces of East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia, settled in and around the town.

With the labour immigration from the East German Democratic Republic inhibited by the Berlin Wall foreign workers (Gastarbeiter) started to arrive from southern Europe and Anatolia in the 1960s. After the fall of Communism more immigrants arrived from Eastern Europe.

From 1945 until 1960, the 5th Division, of the British Army of the Rhine, was stationed in Verden. In 1960, the division was renamed as the 1st Division (later 1st Armoured Division). One of the former British barracks is now used to house the Kreisverwaltung (district administration) and a new sporting stadium has been erected opposite. The second barracks has been demolished to make way for a new residential estate.

Geography
Verden is located in the German state of Lower Saxony, on the river Aller. It is the administrative centre of the district of Verden. The nearest large cities are Bremen (35 km) and Hannover (90 km).

Sights
The old town lies east of the Aller. The Lutheran cathedral (Dom) is known as the  and towers above the pedestrianised high street, with its cafés and shops. This proto-cathedral, consecrated to Ss. Mary and Cecilia, served the former Catholic Diocese of Verden as episcopal church and was built between the 12th and 15th centuries. Other noteworthy buildings include the Lutheran churches of St. John and of St. Andrew, as well as the town hall and the Domherrenhaus (House of cathedral canons).

Verden is further renowned for horse racing and sport horse auctions and is thus also called the (horse) riding town (Reiterstadt).

Infrastructure
East of Verden, there is the 225 m tall radio transmitter,, used by Deutsche Telekom primarily for TV and mobile phone broadcasting.

in 2009, the derelict fodder silo towering over the town won the prize of being "The ugliest wall in North Germany" in a Radio Bremen Vier competition. The prize was to be decorated with a large mural by Graffiti Artists Markus Genesius and Stefan of WOW123. The mural can now be seen above the town skyline.

Mars Petcare has its largest pet food factory in Europe, with a large research centre similar to the Waltham Petcare Science Institute in the UK.

Twin towns – sister cities
Verden is twinned with:

 * 🇷🇺 Bagrationovsk, Russia
 * 🇵🇱 Bartoszyce County, Poland
 * 🇵🇱 Górowo Iławeckie, Poland
 * 🇵🇱 Gmina Górowo Iławeckie, Poland
 * 🇩🇪 Havelberg, Germany
 * 🇫🇷 Saumur, France
 * 🏴 Warwick, England, United Kingdom
 * 🇵🇱 Zielona Góra, Poland

Notable people

 * Catharine Wolpmann (1603 – fl. 1659), twice charged locally with witchcraft, in 1647 and 1655 and twice acquitted
 * F. C. D. Wyneken (1810–1876), missionary pastor in the United States
 * Marcus Lehmann (1831–1890), Orthodox rabbi
 * Anita Augspurg (1857–1943), jurist, actress, writer, activist of the radical feminist movement and pacifist
 * Adolf Köster (1883–1930), politician (SPD), Foreign Minister (1920) and Interior Minister (1921–1922).
 * Gerhard Lindemann (1896–1994), Generalmajor
 * Gottfried Graf von Bismarck-Schönhausen (1901–1949), politician and grandson of Otto von Bismarck, died locally
 * Hanna Grages (1922–2010), gymnast, competed at the 1952 Summer Olympics
 * Volker Münz (born 1964), politician (AfD), member of the Bundestag, 2017 to 2021.
 * Hille Perl (born 1965), virtuoso player of the viola da gamba
 * Jan Hendrik Schön (born 1970), German physicist and fraud

title: Verden an der Aller


text:
User talk:Annetit

Don't forget to add quotes from the many famous people in history, both men and women, who have said that men are stupid, just for balance. The Anome

Attention. Please attempt to stick with the wikipedia policy of Neutral Point Of View (NPOV). Your modifications to women obviously does not fit this. Rgamble

Knock off the POV articles, or you will not be allowed to continue here. -- Zoe

Please see Talk:woman. --mav

Annetit - it would be nice if you worked your personal problems out in some other way, outside of the Wikipedia. These sort of statements won't become a part of the Wikipedia for more tha an few minutes in any case. It's not nice to distract others who could be doing useful work instead of reverting your vandalism. -- Someone else 08:47 Feb 8, 2003 (UTC)~ Please do stop the childishness. Otherwise I'll have to protect the page from your edits and have a developer ban you IP address and username. --mav 08:41 Feb 8, 2003 (UTC)

mav, you might want to take "AgainstCensure" into account as well. -- Zoe --- Hey there: I dont know if youre a man or a woman, but all I have to say is I hate when men say they are superior to women and I hate also when women say they are superior to men. I think we are all equal, thats my opinion.

Anyways, I just wanted to say that dont worry too much about a lot of things, just remember to always be neutral to the issue at hand and you'll be fine.

Hope to read from you soon!

Sincerely yours, AntonioMartin

-

You might as well give up. I have you on auto-revert so your edits won't last more than a minute. --mav

Regarding the female body (always a pleasurable experience), it's true to say that, on average, the female body is both shorter and smaller. But you do need to make this in general bit explicit - otherwise people might wrongly think that all men are bigger than all women - which is wrong!

I'm curious as to what you mean by "extended abortion rights to murder their children" - at least here in the UK, murder is still murder after a child has been born. The only society I know of which allowed post-birth "abortion" was the ancient Romans. Martin

love you man
epic changes

forward seeing 2A02:4E0:2D28:1100:1A9A:2374:71C8:DAB7 (talk) 11:13, 8 July 2023 (UTC)

title: User talk:Annetit


text:
Hibernia

Hibernia is the Classical Latin name for Ireland. The name Hibernia was taken from Greek geographical accounts. During his exploration of northwest Europe (c. 320 BC), Pytheas of Massalia called the island Iérnē (written Ἰέρνη). In his book Geographia (c. 150 AD), Claudius Ptolemaeus ("Ptolemy") called the island Iouerníā (written Ἰουερνία, where "ου"/ou stands for w). The Roman historian Tacitus, in his book Agricola (c. 98 AD), uses the name Hibernia.

Ἰουερνία Iouerníā was a Greek rendering of the Q-Celtic name *Īweriū, from which eventually arose the Irish names Ériu and Éire. The name was altered in Latin (influenced by the word hībernus) as though it meant "land of winter", although the word for winter began with a long 'i'.

Post-Roman usage
The High King Brian Boru (c. 941–1014) based his title on being emperor of the Scoti, which was in Latin Imperator Scottorum, emperor of the Gaels. From 1172, the Lordship of Ireland gave the King of England the additional title Dominus Hibernie (sic, for Hiberniae; also Dominus Hybernie), 'Lord of Ireland'. The Kingdom of Ireland created the title Rex Hiberniae, King of Ireland, for use in Latin texts. Gerardus Mercator called Ireland "Hybernia" on his world map of 1541. In 1642, the motto of the Irish Confederates, a Catholic-landlord administration that ruled much of Ireland until 1650, was Pro Deo, Rege et Patria, Hibernia Unanimis.

By the classicising 18th century, the use of Hibernia had revived in some contexts, just as had the use of Caledonia, one of the Latin terms for Scotland, and Britannia for Britain. "Hibernia" was used on Irish coins in the 1700s, and on a 2016 2 euro coin. Companies such as the Hibernian Insurance Company were established (later renamed the Hibernian Group). The name took on popularity with the success of the Irish Patriot Party. At a time when Palladian classical architecture and design were being adopted in northern Europe, Hibernia was a useful word to describe Ireland with overtones of classical style and civility, including by the prosperous Anglo-Irish Ascendancy who were taught Latin at school. "Hibernian" was used as a term for people, and a general adjective. The Royal Exchange in Dublin was built during 1769–1779 with the carved inscription "SPQH" for Senatus Populusque Hibernicus. The Royal Hibernian Academy dates from 1823. The 18th-century Spanish regiment composed of Irish exiles was known as the Regiment of Hibernia.

Hibernia is a word that is rarely used today with regard to Ireland, except in long-established names. It is occasionally used for names of organisations and various other things; for instance: Hibernia National Bank, Hibernian Insurance Group, Ancient Order of Hibernians, The Hibernian magazine, Hibernia College, Hibernian Orchestra, Hibernian Football Club, HMS Hibernia, and modern derivatives, from Latin like Respublica Hibernica and Universitas Hiberniae Nationalis. In Canada, Hibernia lends its name to the Hibernia oil field off Newfoundland, and to a large offshore oil platform, the Hibernia Gravity Base Structure.

Another occurrence is in familial Hibernian fever or TRAPS (tumour necrosis factor receptor-associated periodic syndrome), a periodic fever first described in 1982 in a family of Irish and Scottish descent, but found in all ethnic groups.

The compound form 'Hiberno-' remains more common, as 'Hiberno-Norse', 'Hiberno-English', 'Hiberno-Scottish', 'Hibernophile', etc.

The Scottish football clubs Hibernian FC and Dundee Hibernian (now Dundee Utd) have adopted the name.

title: Hibernia


text:
Talk:BT Tower

Renaming
"When the GPO telecommunications services were privatised in 1981 the tower was renamed the London Telecom Tower " -- wasn't that just the split of the BT from the post office? AFAIK, privatization didn't occur till the 90s. -- Tarquin 17:48 Feb 7, 2003 (UTC)

MMmm. Dunno, but it must be possible to find out ... a couple more thoughts to mull over: the thing about a "stab" of aerial - is that poetic, or just a mistake?? Also I didn't understand the "of its time" sentence and added "typically": I hope this helps. Also I hate to nitpick but I wondered where the 0.17km/h came from - is it the speed at the outside? Oh well. Nevilley 18:20 Feb 7, 2003 (UTC)

I've been in it when it was rotating -- that's just about right: you can walk over the seam in the floor between the core and the restuarant without being in any danger of falling over. Nice food, too. The Anome 09:47 Feb 26, 2003 (UTC)

 * Thanks for sorting out the speed - I found the 0.17km/h a bit meaningless unless qualifed by where it was ... once in 22 mins is clear enough. Oh and can you also tell us who we have to be nice to to get invited in ??? :) Nevilley 19:41 Feb 26, 2003 (UTC)

Clarified current uses a bit. The Anome [ BT was separated from the Post Office in 1981, and privatised in three stages - the most famous being the first 50.2% of the shares in November 1984. The other two tranches were sold in 1991 and 1993. So the date of privatisation is 1984 for most purposes. --rbrwr

The Guardian's article on the listing says that "unknown to the public, the tower was secretly designed to withstand a nuclear attack on London". Does anyone know any more? --rbrwr

Why has this been moved to "BT Tower (London)"? How many other "BT Tower"s are there in the world? To my knowledge, this is the only one. -- Anon.

 * BT Towers in Birmingham and on Cannock Chase,, as I noted on the page. Andy Mabbett 13:19, 1 Nov 2003 (UTC)

There are other large telecommunications towers in the UK, but as far as I know the London one is the only one called 'BT Tower'. There is an office block in Swansea called 'BT Tower', however. Secretlondon 13:20, Nov 1, 2003 (UTC)

There is a whole chain of hill top towers in the UK. Look at Subterranea Britannica for their article on the so-called 'Backbone' Secretlondon 13:23, Nov 1, 2003 (UTC)

Yes, BT has towers (with various names) all over the place, but there is only one famous structure whose official name is "BT Tower". I suggest the page goes back to BT tower, with disambiguation header

For information on other towers owned by BT see ...; this article is about the BT Tower in London

-- Anon.
 * Official name of the tower in Birmingham, which is famous, is "BT Tower". Andy Mabbett 13:42, 1 Nov 2003 (UTC)

When was it ever correctly known as the "Thames TV Tower"? Indeed how could it be? I would have thought the correct progression would be: GPO Tower, Post Office Tower, Telecom Tower, BT Tower. 194.75.3.217 (talk) 23:32, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

BT Tower, Official Secret, Survivability and Backbone.
I haven't verified this yet but it is commonly said that the BT Tower (London) was originally on the Official Secrets Act which meant it was not marked on maps (landmark or otherwise) and there would technically be a penalty for taking a photography of it (almost definitely never enforced) - Presumably, the Tower was recently taken off the Official Secrets Act.

 * Yes, it was. I've added a link to the Hansard report from http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm199293/cmhansrd/1993-02-19/Debate-5.html Mnbf9rca 00:07, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

I have also read that the towers inner core (not the glass bits) is rounded to aid the survivability of a nuclear explosion. However, I would guess that by the time the structure was finished, the science of nukes had overtaken the science of buildings.

And I've also read of one of BT Towers' uses being an element of 'backbone'; the Cold-War defense network.

So, the question is, who really knows enough about these elements of the Tower to write on them? - A good start might be a wikipedia writer who happens to have a late '60s or '70s Ordanence Survey map of London ;)

 * Cold war use you say?I remember a BT worker telling me back in 2001 that there is a bomb shelter underneath the tower. He had to go in every six months and replace all the stocks of food held there. No references available of course.. --Anonymous Coward

I've done some original research into these matters, and therefore can't put it on Wikipedia! But a few comments: (1) The idea that taking a photo of the tower was an offence under the OSA was comprehensively thrown out in 1978 in the ABC Secrets case. (2) A cylindrical structure makes for low wind resistance, which minimises the tower's deflection in a gale. It would also reduce its vulnerability to bomb blast, but I've not seen any evidence that it was designed for that reason. (3) The tower was not part of the "Backbone" chain, which circumvented the big cities in order to avoid bomb damage. It did however handle links for air defence radar. (4) The tower is connected to the BT deep level tunnel network under London. There is even a 1965 Pathe newsreel showing the connection between the two. Harumphy 21:46, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Clearly taking a photo of the tower can't have been considered a threat - otherwise the makers of Bedazzled (as actually mentioned in the article) would have been in big trouble. -88.109.255.229 20:59, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

 * most of these points are fact, referenced in the article. It's also in Hansard. Obviously some elements are not always enforced. That law applies to many different things and obviously has no exception for the tower. OS maps didn't show the tower, neither does the deed for the land. Almost all civil buildings had stocked bunkers during the cold war - plenty of public evidence. Artlondon 22:02, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I find this "secret" aspect to be very strange. The 1966 Doctor Who serial "The War Machines" showed the tower, even people working inside the tower (although I'm sure the actors were actually in a sound studio). If the state-owned BBC could show the tower, how could there have possibly been a law against doing so? 70.20.211.100 (talk) 20:07, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Indeed. In 1976, commercial television even filmed "The New Avengers" there (presumably with permission!).

All the Backbone microwave towers were excluded from maps at one time. This is clearly preposterous in the case of a very tall building in the middle of London, especially one with a high profile public restaurant on top of it, but the official mind likes to be consistent. The cover story for the tower was the need to distribute the new 625 line colour TV service coming into use, and indeed Backbone did carry some of this traffic along with air defence radar data and other military stuff. When the network was being planned the defence thinking was based on an attack by fission weapons delivered by bombers, and it was thought that central London underground bunkers would survive such an attack, and the PO Tower would too, though the microwave horns would probably all be destroyed. By the time it had actually been built the world was in the H-bomb age and nothing in central London was expected to survive an all out attack. --Ef80 (talk) 12:45, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Christopher Hitchens states that he was involved in a trial whereby reference to the existence of the Tower in an open court breached the OSA and thus was referred to as 'Location 1'. He stated this on two separate occassions, broadcast on C-SPAN in 1988 and 1990 (notably, before the parliamentary debate of 1993). Additionally, he appears to refer to it in writing in 2010 although does not explicitly name it here.

Dubious
All telephone exchanges and facilities operated by the Crown were deemed "prohibited places" under the Official Secrets Act 1911, and this was extended to those operated by BT by the Telecommunications Act 1984.

It is totally false to claim that the Post Office Tower had any particular special status. It was only an offence to gather information on a prohibited place if that was done to "aid the enemy", but it is a bit of a stretch to say that any court would ever have been convinced that revealing the location of the tower or photographing it in a general sense would be giving such aid.

Mauls (talk) 14:42, 11 May 2018 (UTC)

WP:FOOD Tagging
This article talk page was automatically added with WikiProject Food and drink banner as it falls under Category:Restaurants or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. You can find the related request for tagging here -- TinucherianBot (talk) 08:00, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

"Doctor Bennett MP"
Just who was the "Doctor Bennett MP" who raised a question in parliament about the crane on the tower when it was being built? Did he have a first name, or was it "Doctor"? Wikipedia's list of British MPs past and present - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Kingdom_MPs:_B - has two Bennetts, neither of them doctors or in parliament in 1963. Earldelawarr (talk) 20:29, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Reginald Bennett is probably who you are looking for. Baldwin Clere (talk) 13:50, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Floor count.
There's 36 floors, not 34. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU7_AerIdY0 82.2.49.195 (talk) 11:52, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Microwave links: removed?
"Microwave links have been replaced by subterranean fibre optic links for most mainstream purposes, but the former is still in use at the tower."
 * It's my understanding that the microwave links have now been removed (thereby rendering the tower's high-rise structure redundant), but I don't have a citation. Lee M (talk) 20:43, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

"The outside broadcast control is located about the former revolving restaurant, with the kitchens on floor 35"
The article says, "The outside broadcast control is located about the former revolving restaurant, with the kitchens on floor 35". What does "about" mean? Is it located outside where the former revolving restaurant was? Does it occupy the actual space, i.e. INSIDE the former revolving restaurant??? Does "about" simply mean that it occupies that floor? What does "about" mean? Strange. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.235.121 (talk) 23:38, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

The OS map issue
There's a common belief that the BT Tower was for a long time an official secret, and did not appear on Ordnance Survey maps; as recently discussed on Jimbo Wales' talk page, this is actually an urban legend. However it was claimed in Parliament by Kate Hoey MP in 1993, and so many people assume it is true as a result - I know I did.

The claim was recently removed from this article by User:Scott: Here's the problem: this is really an issue of original research. I can easily find plenty of reliable sources repeating the false claim about OS maps, but I can't immediately find any reliable source debunking that claim and noting it's an urban legend. But to remove it ourselves based on primary sources seems like original research. What do we do when the reliable sources repeat a claim which is provably wrong, but we can't say so?

As this 'factoid' is widely known, it seems like it should be mentioned in the article, if only to debunk it; but we can't do that without a reliable source specifically stating that it's false. Can anyone resolve this dilemma by providing one? Robofish (talk) 15:51, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Does it appear on Ordnance Survey maps during the period in which it is alleged to have not done so? I imagine it should be relatively easy to check. If it does appear, then of course the claim should either be removed or noted as being false. This is not original research, it's simple fact-checking. There is certainly no requirement for us to parrot sources we believe to be erroneous. --Pontificalibus (talk) 16:13, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * This map, published in I think 1970 (my edit summary comment was slightly off), although old-maps.co.uk doesn't provide precise publication details. If the claim must appear in the article - I would say it shouldn't, unless it can be shown to have been repeated somewhere notable - it should be clearly indicated as being wrong. —  Scott  •  talk  16:24, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The original (if incorrect) claim was made in Parliament (notable in and of itself)- the reference linked was to Hansard which is the official record, that she made it is easily proven, and it's been oft-repeated, just googling the phrase "post office tower secret" produces plenty of results to indicate how frequently. I'd also agree with noting that's it was an incorrect claim, but recording that it was made - because it was and notably so. Something along the lines of
 * An urban legend persists that the building was officially a secret, and did not appear on official maps. The issue of existence was raised in Parliament by Kate Hoey, MP, on 19 February 1993: "Hon. Members have given examples of seemingly trivial information that remains officially secret. An example that has not been mentioned, but which is so trivial that it is worth mentioning, is the absence of the British Telecom tower from Ordnance Survey maps. I hope that I am covered by parliamentary privilege when I reveal that the British Telecom tower does exist and that its address is 60 Cleveland Street, London." . At that time the existence of the tower was in fact officially in the public domain, and it had appeared on published maps as early as *INSERT DATE & MAP LINK HERE*.

 * with an appropriate date and a link to a relevant map (like the one Scott found) should do the trick I think.--RedHillian | Talk 01:37, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
 * That's a bit more like it, but I'm not sure that we should be the ones describing it as an urban legend. It would be okay for us to say "a mistake subsequently repeated in/by..." and so on, but anything stronger than that would need a reference of its own. —  Scott  •  talk  14:15, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
 * A caption saying "Telecom Tower" appears at the appropriate position on an OS Landranger sheet 176 marked as Crown Copyright 1986.Harumphy (talk) 14:49, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
 * BT themselves say that the the tower was covered by the Official Secrets Act, and that it was not shown on maps. From what I have seen of maps of the time, the circle of the tower itself was not shown, just a general rectangle. Baldwin Clere (talk) 14:25, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

 * The removal of certain defence-related installations from OS maps did not occur until the mid-1980s under Mrs Thatcher, prompted by the demonstrations then going on at places such as RAF Greenham Common, and was intended to make finding such places more difficult for protesters, rather than a likely enemy, whom, it was presumed, already knew the locations. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.172.141 (talk) 10:52, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

 * I've added in sources showing it on the 1968-1970 OS map, these were removed by KJP1 while I was in the middle of editing. The address also appears on the certificate issued by Butlins to diners at the restaurant so have added this and a link to a copy as reference. Robidy (talk) 20:41, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

The dishes
As they have been 'not present' for some time, should there not be a current image? Jackiespeel (talk) 14:14, 14 January 2015 (UTC)

The 'Connected Earth: Learning Centre"' link no longer works - and should there be a link to ? Jackiespeel (talk) 19:34, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on BT Tower. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080206202534/http://www.btplc.com:80/Innovation/News/tower.html to http://www.btplc.com/Innovation/News/tower.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 21:26, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

1971 bombing
In doing a little bit on the Eric Bedford (architect) article, I created a discrepancy between the information on the 1971 bombing in that article and the information here. Clive Aslet (2005) states it was "an IRA bomb". This article says it was actually planted by The Angry Brigade. The sources for this are the Guardian and the Bangor Evening News. I can't actually see a mention of the BT bombing in the Guardian article, though I may have missed it. The Bangor article reports a claim by the Angry Brigade but is a long way from a definitive statement that it was the AB. The AB article on Wiki doesn't mention the BT Tower. Are there any up-to-date sources that are definitive on this? KJP1 (talk) 09:01, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
 * As KJP1 said, the Guardian article is about the Angry Brigade, but I didn't see any mentioned of the Post Office (BT) Tower bomb; the Bangor Daily News article says that they claimed it, but there's no evidence of it (unless it came up in the Angry Brigade trial, in which case can someone link to a reference)? The common consensus is that this was in fact an IRA bomb (they claimed it as such within a few hours), whereas the AB didn't claim it until more than a day after the event. I am going to amend the article to say that the AB also claimed it as their acts. 198.102.219.141 (talk) 12:14, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

First race up
This gives a different winner: clarification anyone? Jackiespeel (talk) 14:17, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Yes, have found teh British Pathe news report from the time that confirms it's not the chap mentioned. There are references for the chap that did it the year before the first race but no name. Whilst I left it in I think another editor (KJP1) got confused and thought I'd added it...he has removed it. Robidy (talk) 20:31, 20 October 2018 (UTC)

Kitten Kong
As Twinkle climbing the Tower appears in the WP article on The Goodies episode Kitten Kong some mention here perhaps? Jackiespeel (talk) 19:21, 16 June 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- The Anome (talk) 12:22, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

"Post Office code" YTOW
I've removed the mention of the BT Tower having a "Post Office code" of YTOW as unreferenced/unverifiable. There are plenty of mentions of this on the web, but they're all from mirrors of this article. I presume this is something like a GPO exchange code, but searching those for YTOW finds nothing, either. -- The Anome (talk) 12:22, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

HM the Queen visiting the Post Office Tower on 17 May 1966.jpg
What if we included this photo on this page? File:HM the Queen visiting the Post Office Tower on 17 May 1966.jpg But I need someone to verify that it actually happened. Yourlocallordandsavior (talk) 07:18, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

Put rotating retaurant in the lead?
I think the rotating retaurant, though only open for five years, is one reason for its notability and should go in the lead. Jontel (talk) 13:13, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:BT Tower


text:
Curia

Curia (: curiae) in ancient Rome referred to one of the original groupings of the citizenry, eventually numbering 30, and later every Roman citizen was presumed to belong to one. While they originally likely had wider powers, they came to meet for only a few purposes by the end of the Republic: to confirm the election of magistrates with imperium, to witness the installation of priests, the making of wills, and to carry out certain adoptions.

The term is more broadly used to designate an assembly, council, or court, in which public, official, or religious issues are discussed and decided. Lesser curiae existed for other purposes. The word curia also came to denote the places of assembly, especially of the senate. Similar institutions existed in other towns and cities of Italy.

In medieval times, a king's council was often referred to as a curia. Today, the most famous curia is the Curia of the Roman Catholic Church, which assists the Roman Pontiff in the hierarchical government of the Church.

Origins
The word curia is thought to derive from Old Latin coviria, meaning "a gathering of men" (co-, "together" = vir, "man"). In this sense, any assembly, public or private, could be called a curia. In addition to the Roman curiae, voting assemblies known as curiae existed in other towns of Latium, and similar institutions existed in other parts of Italy. During the republic, local curiae were established in Italian and provincial municipia and coloniae. In imperial times, local magistrates were often elected by municipal senates, which also came to be known as curiae. By extension, the word curia came to mean not just a gathering, but also the place where an assembly would gather, such as a meeting house.

Roman curiae
In Roman times, "curia" had two principal meanings. Originally it applied to the wards of the comitia curiata. However, over time the name became applied to the senate house, which in its various incarnations housed meetings of the Roman senate from the time of the kings until the beginning of the seventh century AD.

Comitia curiata
The most important curiae at Rome were the 30 that together made up the comitia curiata. Traditionally ascribed to the kings, each of the three tribes established by Romulus, the Ramnes, Tities, and Luceres, was divided into ten curiae. In theory, each gens (family, clan) belonged to a particular curia, although whether this was strictly observed throughout Roman history is uncertain.

Each curia had a distinct name, said to have been derived from the names of some of the Sabine women abducted by the Romans in the time of Romulus. However, some of the curiae evidently derived their names from particular districts or eponymous heroes. The curiae were probably established geographically, representing specific neighborhoods in Rome, for which reason curia is sometimes translated as "ward". Only a few of the names of the 30 curiae have been preserved, including Acculeia, Calabra, Faucia, Foriensis, Rapta, Veliensis, Tifata, and Titia.

The assertion that the plebeians were not members of the curiae, or that only the dependents (clientes) of the patricians were admitted, and not entitled to vote, is expressly contradicted by Dionysius. This argument is also refuted by Mommsen.

Each curia had its own sacra, in which its members, known as curiales, worshipped the gods of the state and other deities specific to the curia, with their own rites and ceremonies. Each curia had a meeting site and place of worship, named after the curia. Originally, this may have been a simple altar, then a sacellum, and finally a meeting house.

The curia was presided over by a curio (: curiones), who was always at least 50 years old, and was elected for life. The curio undertook the religious affairs of the curia. He was assisted by another priest, known as the flamen curialis. When the 30 curiae gathered to make up the comitia curiata, they were presided over by a curio maximus, who until 209 BC was always a patrician. Originally, the curio maximus was probably elected by the curiones, but in later times by the people themselves. Each curia was attended by one lictor; an assembly of the comitia curiata was attended by thirty lictors.

The comitia curiata voted to confirm the election of magistrates by passing a law called the lex curiata de imperio. It also witnessed the installation of priests, and adoptions, and the making of wills. The Pontifex Maximus may have presided over these ceremonies. The assembly probably possessed much greater authority before the establishment of the comitia centuriata, which gradually assumed many of the curiate assembly's original functions.

Senate House
Since the Roman Kingdom, the meeting-house of the Roman senate was known as the curia. The original meeting place was said to have been a temple built on the spot where the Romans and Sabines laid down their arms during the reign of Romulus (traditionally reigned 753–717 BC). The institution of the senate was always ascribed to Romulus; although the first senate was said to comprise 100 members, the earliest number which can be called certain is 300, probably connected with the three tribes and 30 curiae also attributed to Romulus.

Curia Hostilia
After the original temple was destroyed by fire, it was replaced by a new meeting house by Tullus Hostilius, the third King of Rome (traditionally reigned 673–642 BC). The Curia Hostilia stood on the north end of the Comitium, where the comitia curiata and other Roman assemblies met, and was oriented along the four cardinal points. After more than 500 years of service, the building was restored and enlarged by the dictator Lucius Cornelius Sulla in 80 BC. Sulla had doubled the senate's membership from 300 to 600, necessitating a larger building, which retained the original orientation of the Curia Hostilia, but extended further south into the comitium. In 52 BC, following the murder of Publius Clodius Pulcher, his clientes set fire to the senate house, which was rebuilt by Faustus Cornelius Sulla, son of the dictator. Following this reconstruction, the building came to be called the Curia Cornelia.

Curia Julia
A generation after Sulla enlarged the senate from 300 members to 600, Julius Caesar increased its membership to 900, necessitating the construction of a larger meeting house. Shortly before his death in 44 BC, Caesar began the construction of a new building, which became known as the Curia Julia. This structure covered most of the comitium, and abandoned the original orientation of the previous curiae, pointing slightly northwest. The building featured a large central hall with a daïs for magistrates, and marble benches on one side. There was also a record office on one side. The building was completed by Caesar's grandnephew, Octavian, the future emperor Augustus, in 29 BC, although he reduced the senate itself to its former number of 600. The Curia Cornelia was demolished, but the precise date is not known.

In AD 94, the Curia Julia was rebuilt along Caesar's original plan by the emperor Domitian, who also restored the former orientation of the Curia Hostilia. The building was damaged by fire during the reign of Carinus in 283, and again restored under his successor, Diocletian. The Roman Senate is last mentioned in AD 600. In 630, Pope Honorius I transformed the senate house into the church of Sant'Adriano al Foro, preserving the structure at its full height. In 1923, the church and an adjacent convent were bought by the Italian government. The building was further restored from 1935 to 1937, removing various medieval additions, to reveal the original Roman architecture.

Curiae Veteres
The Curiae Veteres was the earliest sanctuary of the thirty curiae. It is discussed by both Varro and by Tacitus, who mentions it as one point of the Palatine pomerium of Roma quadrata. It is likely that this shrine was located at the northeast corner of the Palatine Hill. Its remains have likely been identified in excavations carried out by Clementina Panella. As the Republic continued, the curiae grew too large to meet conveniently at the Curiae Veteres, and a new meeting place, the Curiae Novae, was constructed. A few of the curiae continued to meet at the Curiae Veteres due to specific religious obligations.

Municipal curiae
In the Roman Empire a town council was known as a curia, or sometimes an ordo, or boule. The existence of such a governing body was the mark of an independent city. Municipal curiae were co-optive, and their members, the decurions, sat for life. Their numbers varied greatly according to the size of the city. In the Western Empire, one hundred seems to have been a common number, but in the East five hundred was customary, on the model of the Athenian Boule. However, by the fourth century, curial duties had become onerous, and it was difficult to fill all the posts; often candidates had to be nominated. The emperor Constantine exempted Christians from serving in the curiae, which led to many rich pagans claiming to be priests in order to escape these duties.

Other curiae
The concept of the curia as a governing body, or the court where such a body met, carried on into medieval times, both as a secular institution, and in the church.

Medieval curiae
In medieval times, a king's court was frequently known as the curia regis, consisting of the king's chief magnates and councilors. In England, the curia regis gradually developed into Parliament. In France, the curia regis or Conseil du Roi developed in the twelfth century, with the term gradually becoming applied to a judicial body, and falling out of use by the fourteenth century.

Roman Catholic Church
In the Roman Catholic Church, the administrative body of the Holy See is known as the Roman Curia. It is through this Curia that the Roman Pontiff conducts the business of the Church as a whole.

Among older religious orders, the governing council of the Superior General or Regional Superior and his or her assistants is referred to their Curia.

Modern usage
The Court of Justice of the European Union uses "CURIA" (in roman script) in its official emblem.

The term curia may refer to separate electoral colleges in a system of reserved political positions (reserved seats), e.g. during the British mandate of Palestine at the third election (1931) of the Asefat HaNivharim there were three curiae, for the Ashkenazi Jews, the Sephardi Jews and for the Yemeni Jews.

In the United States Supreme Court an interested third party to a case may file a brief as an amicus curiae.

Under the Fundamental Law adopted in 2011, Hungary's supreme court is called the Curia.

The Federal Palace of Switzerland, the seat of the Swiss Confederation, bears the inscription Curia Confœderationis Helveticæ.

title: Curia