text:
Gianni Agnelli

Giovanni "Gianni" Agnelli (12 March 1921 – 24 January 2003), nicknamed L'Avvocato ("The Lawyer"), was an Italian industrialist and principal shareholder of Fiat. As the head of Fiat, he controlled 4.4% of Italy's GDP, 3.1% of its industrial workforce, and 16.5% of its industrial investment in research. He was the richest man in modern Italian history.

Agnelli was regarded as having an impeccable and slightly eccentric fashion sense, which has influenced both Italian and international men's fashion. Agnelli was awarded the decoration Knight Grand Cross of the Order of Merit of the Italian Republic in 1967 and the Order of Merit for Labour (Cavaliere del lavoro) in 1977. Following his death in 2003, control of the firm was gradually passed to his grandson and chosen heir, John Elkann.

Early life
Agnelli was born in Turin; he maintained strong ties with the village of Villar Perosa, near Turin in the Piedmont region, of which he served as mayor until 1980. His father was the prominent Italian industrialist Edoardo Agnelli. His maternal grandmother was American; his mother was Princess Virginia Bourbon del Monte, daughter of Carlo, 4th Prince of San Faustino, head of a noble family established in Perugia, who was married with the American heiress Jane Allen Campbell. Agnelli was named after his grandfather Giovanni Agnelli, the founder of the Italian car manufacturer Fiat. At the age of 14, his father was killed in a plane crash, and he was raised by his grandfather, who died on 16 December 1945, fifteen days after Agnelli's mother, Virginia, died in a car crash.

Known as Gianni to differentiate from his grandfather, with whom he shared his first name, he inherited the command of Fiat and the Agnelli family assets in general in 1966, following a period in which Fiat was temporarily ruled by Vittorio Valletta while he was learning how his family's company worked. Agnelli raised Fiat to become the most important company in Italy, and one of the major car-builders of Europe, amid the Italian economic miracle. He was considered the king of Italian business from the 1960s to the 1980s. He also developed an accessory business, with minor companies, such as Fiat Velivoli, operating in the military industry.

Agnelli was educated at Pinerolo Cavalry Academy, and studied law at the University of Turin, although he never practised law. He joined a tank regiment in June 1940 when Italy entered World War II on the side of the Axis powers. He fought on the Eastern Front, being wounded twice. He also served in a Fiat-built armoured-car division during the North African campaign, for which he received the War Cross of Military Valor. After the armistice of Cassibile, Agnelli became a liaison officer with the occupying American troops due to his fluency in English. His grandfather, who had manufactured vehicles for the Axis powers during the war, was forced to retire from Fiat but named Valletta to be his successor. His grandfather died, leaving him head of the family but Valletta running the company. After the pre-war Topolino, Italy's first inexpensive mass-produced car, Fiat in the mid-fiftees made a bestseller with the Fiat 600.

Prior to his marriage on 19 November 1953 to Marella Caracciolo dei Principi di Castagneto, a half-American, half-Neapolitan noblewoman who made a small but significant name as a fabric designer and a bigger name as a tastemaker, Agnelli was a noted playboy whose mistresses included actresses, such Anita Ekberg, Rita Hayworth, Linda Christian, Danielle Darrieux, the socialite Pamela Harriman, and Jackie Kennedy. Although Agnelli continued to be involved with other women during his marriage, including Ekberg and the fashion designer Jackie Rogers, the Agnellis remained married until his death of prostate cancer in 2003 at the age of 81.

For most of his life, Agnelli was considered to be a man of exquisite taste. In 2002, he left his paintings to the city of Turin, which established the Pinacoteca Giovanni e Marella Agnelli. His only son, Edoardo Agnelli, was born in New York City on 9 June 1954, seven months after the couple's wedding at the Château d'Osthoffen in France. He gave up trying to groom him to take over Fiat, seeing how the boy was more interested in mysticism than making cars; his son studied religion at Princeton University and took part in a world day of prayer in Assisi. His son, who seemed burdened by the mantle of his surname,  committed suicide on 15 November 2000 by jumping off a bridge near Turin; Agnelli joined police at the scene. The Agnellis had one daughter, Countess Margherita Agnelli de Pahlen. She is the mother of John Elkann, Lapo Elkann, and Ginevra Elkann. She has five other children from her second marriage to Count Serge de Pahlen: Maria de Pahlen, Peter de Pahlen, Anna de Pahlen, and Tatiana de Pahlen. Into the 2020s, the de Pahlens remain involved in a dispute with the Elkanns over Agnelli's inheritance.

Head of Fiat
Agnelli became president of Fiat in 1966. He opened factories in many places, including the Soviet Union in the Russian city of Tolyatti, Spain, and South America, such as Automóveis in Brasil; he also started international alliances and joint-ventures like Iveco, which marked a new industrial mentality. During the international energy crisis of the 1970s, he sold part of the company to Lafico, a Libyan company owned by Muammar Gaddafi;  Agnelli would later repurchase these shares. He was also closely connected with Juventus, the most renowned Italian football club, of which he was a fan and the direct owner.

In 1969 and 1970, Fiat was joined by Ferrari and Lancia. In the 1970s, which were marked by labour tensions, Fiat expanded to the east and agreements with Poland, Turkey, and Yugoslavia were strengthened. In 1974, he was elected president of Confindustria and came to terms with the labour unions by signing the agreement for the single point of contingency with the CGIL by Luciano Lama. The 1980s saw increased sales for Fiat under Vittorio Ghidella, with successes such as the Fiat Uno, the Fiat Croma, and the Lancia Thema. In 1986, after a failed agreement with Ford Motor Company, Agnelli bought Alfa Romeo from the Italian state. In the 1990s, as Fiat was unable to make inroads into the non-European automotive markets, Agnelli decided to form an alliance with General Motors. The agreement provided for General Motors to sell 5% of their shares in exchange for 20% of the Fiat Group's package, with the possibility after two years and within the next eight years to buy the remaining 80% of Fiat if it was sold.

In 1991, Agnelli was named an Italian senator for life and joined the independent parliamentary group; he was later named a member of the Senate of the Republic's defence commission. In 1997, he briefly acquired de facto control of Telecom Italia. In the early 2000s, Agnelli made overtures to General Motors resulting in an agreement under which General Motors progressively became involved in Fiat. The crisis of Fiat came when Agnelli was already fighting against cancer, and he could take little part in these events. Agnelli also encountered a number of difficulties with Mediobanca through Cesare Romiti, who caused Agnelli anxiety. Mediobanca made a policy of constantly supervising Fiat because of their financial interests in the company, often becoming significantly involved in executive decisions and important issues. Vincenzo Maranghi, who later became the CEO of the bank, eventually developed a close friendship with Agnelli, despite previous tensions. At the time of his death in 2003, Fiat was worth €3.3 billion; Agnelli's inheritance was twenty-five times bigger by 2023.

Nicknamed L'Avvocato ("The Lawyer") because he had a degree in law even though he was never admitted to the Order of Lawyers, Agnelli was the most important figure in Italian economy, the symbol of capitalism throughout the second half of 20th century, and regarded by many as the true "King of Italy". A cultivated man of keen intelligence and a peculiar sense of humour, he was perhaps the most famous Italian abroad, particularly in the United States and New York, forming deep relationships with international bankers and politicians, largely through the Bilderberg Group, whose conferences he attended regularly since 1958. Some of the other Bilderberg regulars became close friends, among them Henry Kissinger. He was also close to John F. Kennedy, and was a friend of Truman Capote. Another longtime associate was David Rockefeller, who appointed him to the International Advisory Committee of Chase Manhattan Bank, of which Rockefeller was chairman; Agnelli sat on this committee for thirty years. He was also a member of a syndicate with Rockefeller that for a time in the 1980s owned Rockefeller Center. He was also an honorary member of the International Olympic Committee, a position he held until his death, and was named in 2000 the committee honorary president for Torino 2006, of which he was an instrumental promoter.

Later life and death
Agnelli stepped down in 1996 but stayed on as Fiat's honorary chairman until his death. Giovanni Alberto Agnelli, the son of Gianni's younger brother, Umberto Agnelli, died of a rare form of cancer in 1997 at age 33 while he was being groomed by his uncle to head the Fiat Group. John Elkann, the son of Gianni and Marella's daughter, Margherita, was expected to take over Fiat after Gianni's death. Instead, Umberto became chairman, taking over from Paolo Fresco. While Fresco had diversified the Fiat Group's holdings, Umberto refocused its activities on its auto and mechanics division. He then brought in Giuseppe Morchio to mastermind a rescue strategy for the company. Morchio was expected to continue to run the Fiat Group as it attempted to claw its way out of its latest financial crisis.

Upon Umberto's death, Ferrari chairman Luca Cordero di Montezemolo was named Fiat chairman, with Elkann as vice chairman; Morchio immediately offered his resignation. His successor was Sergio Marchionne, an expert of reorganisation who between 2002 and 2004 led the Swiss certification company Societé Générale de Surveillance; Elkann played a key role when he brought Marchionne to Fiat. Agnelli died in 2003 of prostate cancer at age 81 in Turin. Fiat-owned Scuderia Ferrari named their 2003 Formula One contender, the F2003-GA, in tribute to Agnelli. Juventus and the Italian Football Federation were also in mourning over his death. In 2021, to celebrate the centenary of Agnelli's birth, a special postage stamp was issued.

1940s–1990s
The figure of Agnelli was intimately linked to the history of Juventus, the association football team of Turin of which he was appointed president from 1947 to 1954. His activity had an impact within the club similar to that of his father, Edoardo Agnelli, twenty years earlier, acquiring important players, such as Giampiero Boniperti, John Hansen, and Karl Aage Præst, who were decisive for the conquest of two Serie A leagues in 1950 and 1952, the first won by the club in fifteen years. Agnelli also had an impact on the transformation at the corporate level during his management from a private club belonging to the rival car manufacturer Cisitalia, chaired by Piero Dusio, to an independent company with private capital with limited liability that achieved further successes.

After his activity as president of the club, Agnelli remained linked to Juventus by carrying out various management activities as honorary president, with which he was able to maintain his influence on the club until 1994, the year in which he handed over these activities to his brother Umberto. Agnelli led Juventus to ten Italian football champion titles, four Italy Cups, one Intercontinental Cup, one European Cup, one Cup Winners' Cup, three UEFA Cups, and one UEFA Super Cup, for a total of 23 official trophies in 48 years, which made him one of the most important personalities in sports history. He daily called at 6 am Boniperti, such as when he convinced him to become Juventus chairman in 1971, and Juventus players to see how they were doing.

Agnelli liked footballers like Stanley Matthews and Garrincha, as well as Pelé, Diego Armando Maradona, Johan Cruijff, and Alfredo Di Stéfano, whom his club tried to sign. In 1958, Agnelli sought to purchase Pelé through Fiat's shares. In a dinner in 1962, Santos F.C. was offered one million for Pelé by Umberto. In 1962, he sent Boniperti to Chile to sign Pelé with an offer of one hundred million, which the Brazilian Football Federation did not authorise for the transfer. He was instrumental in signing Michel Platini, of whom he said: "We bought him for a piece of bread and he's put foie gras on top of it." He gave several notable nicknames to footballers, such Zbigniew Boniek (bello di notte, or "Beauty at night", which is a play on the title of Luis Buñuel's movie Belle de Jour), Roberto Baggio (Raffaello, after an Italian Renaissance painter, best known as Raphael), and Alessandro Del Piero (Pinturicchio, after the nickname of another Italian Renaissance painter, Bernardino di Betto), and Ahead of the 1996 UEFA Champions League final won by Juventus against Ajax, he said: "If they are a team of Flemish painters, we will be tough Piedmontese." His grandson, John Elkann, as well as his nephew, Andrea Agnelli, followed his footsteps at Juventus.

1990s–2000s
In 1999, Juventus improved their own record of having won all five major UEFA competitions by winning the Intertoto Cup, the next year was voted the seventh best of the FIFA Club of the Century and in 2009 was placed by the International Federation of Football History & Statistics second in the European best club of the 20th-century ranking, the highest position for an Italian club in both; by the early 2000s, the club had the third best revenue in Europe at over €200 million. This all changed when, three years after his death, Calciopoli controversially hit the club,  which was demoted to Serie B for the first time in its history despite the club being acquitted and the leagues were ruled to be regular;  it was his nephew, Andrea Agnelli, who built the club back up in the 2010s. When Agnelli died in 2003, Juventus had won the 2001–02 Serie A at the last matchday,  and a few months after his death had reached the 2003 UEFA Champions League final, the club's four UEFA Champions League final in seven years, three of which were achieved consecutively; those in 1997, against Borussia Dortmund,  and in 1998, against Real Madrid, were lost out controversially. In the words of Fulvio Bianchi, early 2000s Juventus were "stronger than all those that came after, and had €250 million in revenue, being at the top of Europe, and 100 sponsors. It took ten years to recover and return to the top Italians, not yet Europeans: now the club makes over €300 million, but in the meantime Real, Bayern, and the others have taken off."

Some observers allege that Calciopoli and its aftermath were a dispute within Juventus and between the club's owners that came after the deaths of Gianni and Umberto Agnelli, including Franzo Grande Stevens, who was nicknamed by Agnelli "the lawyer's lawyer", and Gianluigi Gabetti who favoured Agnelli's grandson, John Elkann, over his nephew as chairman, and wanted to get rid of Luciano Moggi, Antonio Giraudo, and Roberto Bettega, whose shares in the club increased. Whatever their intentions, it is argued they condemned Juventus: first when Carlo Zaccone, the club's lawyer, agreed for relegation to Serie B and point-deduction, when he made that statement because Juventus were the only club risking more than one-division relegation (Serie C), and he meant for Juventus (the sole club to be ultimately demoted) to have equal treatment with the other clubs; and then when Luca Cordero di Montezemolo retired the club's appeal to the Regional Administrative Court of Lazio, which could have cleared the club's name and avoid relegation, after FIFA threatened to suspend the FIGC from international play, a renounce for which then-FIFA president Sepp Blatter was thankful.

Several observers, including former FIGC president Franco Carraro, argue that had Agnelli been alive, things would have been done differently, as the club and its directors would have been defended properly, which could have avoided relegation and cleared the club's name much earlier than the Calciopoli trials of the 2010s. When Tangentopoli hit the country in the 1990s, Agnelli said: "My men must be defended to the last degree of judgement." Moggi, one of the two Juventus directors involved in the scandal, was nicknamed by Agnelli as "the king's groom, who must know all horse thieves". Moggi discussed how "Agnelli said that because during my time it was full of sons of bitches. And he wanted an expert, one who could stand up to these here. For me it's a compliment." He added that Calciopoli only happened because "l'Avvocato Agnelli and il Dottor Umberto died", and had the two Agnellis not died, "nothing [of this farce] would have happened." According to observers, Juventus was weak after Agnelli's death, with Moggi saying: "The death of l'Avvocato Agnelli made us orphans and weak, it was easy to attack Juve and destroy them by making things up." According to critics, Juventus bothered because they won too much under Agnelli. Then-CONI president Gianni Petrucci said "a team that wins too much is harmful to their sport".

Ferrari
Upon Fiat's acquisition of Ferrari in 1969, Agnelli became associated with Formula One and Scuderia Ferrari, which achieved successes in the 1970s with Niki Lauda and Jody Scheckter. About his passion for Ferrari, he said: "Not all Italians support the national team, while all Italians and fifty per cent of non-Italians support Ferrari." In 1996, upon the signing of Michael Schumacher, he said: "Of course, if now they don't win with Schumacher it's their fault..." In 1998, two years before Ferrari's return to dominance of the early 2000s with Schumacher, he said: "I wouldn't give up a Juve Scudetto for a Ferrari world championship." Upon his death in 2003, asked whether Agnelli loved more Juventus or Ferrari, Boniperti recalled: "I think Juve. And he loved Turin very much, the city that has always been in his heart." About Schumacher, he was quoted as saying that "this German is very dear to me, in the sense that he costs me dearly, but he is worth it."

In an interview with Oggi, Agnelli's grandson Lapo Elkann said: "He saved the Prancing Horse, preventing it from being sold to the Americans. Then he chose the right people: [former Ferrari chairman] Luca di Montezemolo and Jean Todt. He loved Ferrari cars and he loved all the beautiful things in life. It's not enough to be rich to appreciate beauty. Taste cannot be bought." About Agnelli's favoured Formula One drivers, Elkann said: "His favourite driver was the one who won. I think that's why he loved Michael Schumacher. Then he liked Gilles Villeneuve, his way of driving. And Ayrton Senna, who, had he not died so tragically, would have come to Ferrari the following year. He loved talent and courage and also recognised them in his opponents. He was a true sportsman."

Yacht racing
Among his many passions, he was one of the promoters of Azzurra, an Italian boat entering the America's Cup. When in sea, he often spent his time on the 1967 G-Cinquanta, one of his many boats.

Style
Agnelli's fashion sense and style inspired and influenced menswear throughout the years in Italy and around the world. In his retirement speech, Milanese fashion designer Nino Cerruti named Agnelli as one of his biggest inspirations along with James Bond and John F. Kennedy. Esquire named Agnelli as one of five best-dressed men in the history of the world.

Agnelli's dress style featured a foundation of classic suits. He had a large number of bespoke Caraceni suits, which were of high quality and classic design. He was known for wearing his wristwatch over his cuff and was regarded as conveying sprezzatura, the Italian art of making the difficult look easy. Agnelli's nickname "The Rake of the Riviera" inspired the classical menswear magazine The Rake.

Politics
Politically, Agnelli did not join any party and remained an independent politician; nonetheless, he was close to the Italian Republican Party (PRI), and was described as the Republican monarch of the 20th century. He had amicable relations with the Italian Democratic Socialist Party (PSDI) and Italian Socialist Party (PSI) leaders Giuseppe Saragat and Sandro Pertini, respectively, as well as with Francesco Cossiga of Christian Democracy (DC) and Carlo Azeglio Ciampi. Despite their political differences and conflicts like the Marcia dei quarantamila in 1980, he also had relatively amicable relations with the Italian Communist Party (PCI), particularly during the leadership of Enrico Berlinguer; in 2013, Giorgio Napolitano, former PCI member and then president of Italy, described it as "sincere cordiality and sympathy". Several notable PCI leaders, such as Palmiro Togliatti, Luciano Lama, and Berlinguer, and allegedly Antonio Gramsci, were supporters of Agnelli's Juventus.

Like other family members, such as his grandfather, Agnelli sought to create a non-ideological, centrist political formation of Atlanticist and pro-European persuasion that sought a modernising, internationalist capitalism in contrast to the left and opposed to the populist, nationalist, or fascist right. He received his first public assignment in 1961 when, on the occasion of the celebrations for the first centenary of the unification of Italy, he was appointed president of the Expo 61. In the 1970s, there were talks of forming a secular bloc between the Italian Liberal Party, PSDI, and PRI, and take over the place of the DC. Ahead of the 1976 Italian general election, then PRI secretary Ugo La Malfa offered Agnelli a candidacy on the party lists; in turn, Agnelli offered his disponibility to be the Ambassador of the Italian Republic to the United States. The DC was ultimately able to not only have Agnelli retire his PRI candidacy, which could have cost them about one million votes, by raising the prospect of economic retaliations for Fiat but also convinced Umberto Agnelli, his younger brother, to join the DC. He turned down the invite by then president Oscar Luigi Scalfaro to become Prime Minister of Italy after Ciampi.

In 1991, Agnelli was appointed senator for life by Cossiga, then president of the Italian Republic. He joined the For the Autonomies group and was admitted to the Defense Commission of the Senate. In 1994, he was among the three life senators (together with Giovanni Leone and Cossiga) to vote their confidence in the Berlusconi I Cabinet; it was the first time in the history of Italy that life senators were decisive for the confidence in an executive. When Berlusconi was about to enter politics, he said: "If he wins, an entrepreneur will have won. If he loses, Berlusconi will have lost." When the Prodi I Cabinet fell in 1998 and Massimo D'Alema was appointed Prime Minister of Italy and became the first post-Communist to hold the office of a NATO country, as well as Italy's only post-Communist prime minister, his vote in favour of confidence caused a sensation. He told the press that "today in Italy a left-wing government is the only one that can make right-wing policies."

Quotations
Agnelli is the author of many aphorisms and quotations. The most notable of them are related to what he described as "the love of a lifetime", Juventus, about which he said "they are my life's companion, above all an emotion. It happens when I see those shirts enter the field. I even get excited when I read the letter J in some headline in the newspaper. Immediately I think of Juve." He also said: "Juve is for me the love of a lifetime, a source of joy and pride, but also of disappointment and frustration, however strong emotions, as can give a true and infinite love story."

To the shouted cheering, in response to the question "Will Juventus win or the best team win?", Agnelli replied with irony: "I'm lucky, often the two things coincide". He described Juventus thusly: "[Because] Juventus, after a century of history already, has become a legend. A legend that started off in a high school in Turin and finished up by gaining nine or ten million fans in Italy and, of course, the same number abroad with a jersey and colours that are known throughout the world." About Tommaso Buscetta, a member of Cosa Nostra who became a pentito and collaborator of justice, he was quoted as saying: "He said he was obsessively a fan of Juventus? If you meet him, tell him it's the only thing he won't have to regret [a play on the word pentito, which comes from pentire, meaning in English 'to regret']."

Honours

 * Cordone_di_gran_Croce_OMRI_BAR.svg Knight Grand Cross of the Order of Merit of the Italian Republic, 27 December 1967.
 * OrdineLavoro.png Knight of the Order of Merit for Labour, 1977.
 * Benemeriti della cultura BAR.svg Italian Medal of Merit for Culture and Art, June 1987.
 * Croce di guerra al valor militare BAR.svg War Cross of Military Valor, 13 February 1943.
 * 1940-1943 Medaglia commemorativa del periodo bellico it BAR.svg War Commemorative Medal (Italy, 1940–1943).
 * Croce di guerra al merito BAR.svg War Merit Cross.
 * MaltaBali.png Grand Cross of the Sovereign Military Order of Malta.

title: Gianni Agnelli


text:
Saint-Omer

Saint-Omer (Sint-Omaars; Picard: Saint-Onmé) is a commune and sub-prefecture of the Pas-de-Calais department in France.

It is 68 km west-northwest of Lille on the railway to Calais, and is located in the Artois province. The town is named after Saint Audomar, who brought Christianity to the area.

The canalised section of the river Aa begins at Saint-Omer, reaching the North Sea at Gravelines in northern France. Below its walls, the Aa connects with the Neufossé Canal, which ends at the river Lys.

History
Saint-Omer first appeared in the writings during the 7th century under the name of Sithiu (Sithieu or Sitdiu), around the Saint-Bertin abbey founded on the initiative of Audomar, (Odemaars or Omer).

Omer, bishop of Thérouanne, in the 7th century established the Abbey of Saint Bertin, from which that of Notre-Dame was an offshoot. Rivalry and dissension, which lasted till the French Revolution, soon sprang up between the two monasteries, becoming especially virulent when in 1559 St Omer became a bishopric and Notre-Dame was raised to the rank of cathedral.

In the 9th century, the village that grew up round the monasteries took the name of St Omer. The Normans laid the place waste about 860 and 880. Ten years later the town and monastery had built fortified walls and were safe from their attack. Situated on the borders of territories frequently disputed by French, Flemish, English and Spaniards, St Omer for most of its history continued to be subject to sieges and military invasions.

In 932 Arnulf of Flanders conquered the County of Artois and Saint-Omer (Sint-Omaars in Dutch) became part of the County of Flanders for the next three centuries. In 1071 Philip I and the teenage Count Arnulf III of Flanders were defeated at St Omer by Arnulf's uncle and former protector, Robert the Frisian, who subsequently became the Count of Flanders until his death in 1093.

Along with its textile industry, St-Omer flourished in the 12th and 13th century. In 1127 the town received a communal charter from the count, William Clito, becoming the first town in West Flanders with city rights. Later on the city lost its leading position in the textile industry to Bruges. After the mysterious death of Count Baldwin I, the County of Flanders was weakened. In 1214 Philip II of France captured Baldwin's daughter Joan and her husband Ferdinand, Count of Flanders and forced them to sign the Treaty of Pont-à-Vendin, in which Artois was yielded to France. Ferdinand did not take this lying down, and allied with Emperor Otto IV and John, King of England, he battled Philip II at Bouvines, but was defeated. Despite the political separation for the next 170 years, the city remained part of the economic network of Flanders.

In 1340 a large battle was fought in the town's suburbs between an Anglo-Flemish army and a French one under Eudes IV, Duke of Burgundy, in which the Anglo-Flemish force was forced to withdraw. From 1384, St-Omer was part of the Burgundian Netherlands, from 1482 of the Habsburg Netherlands and from 1581 to 1678 of the Spanish Netherlands.

The French made futile attempts against the town between 1551 and 1596. During the Thirty Years' War, the French attacked in 1638 (under Cardinal Richelieu) and again in 1647. Finally in 1677, after a seventeen-day siege, Louis XIV forced the town to capitulate. The peace of Nijmegen signed in the fall of 1678 permanently confirmed the conquest and its annexation by France. In 1711, St-Omer was besieged by the Duke of Marlborough. With the town on the verge of surrendering because of famine, Jacqueline Robin risked her life to bring provisions into the town, in memory of which in 1884 a large statue of her was erected in front of the cathedral.

The College of Saint Omer was established in 1593 by Fr Robert Persons SJ, an English Jesuit, to educate English Roman Catholics. After the Protestant Reformation, England had established penal laws against Roman Catholic education in the country. The college operated in St Omer until 1762, when it migrated to Bruges and then to Liège in 1773. It finally moved to England in 1794, settling at Stonyhurst, Lancashire. Former students of the College of Saint Omer include John Carroll, his brother Daniel and his cousin Charles.

During World War I on 8 October 1914, the British Royal Flying Corps (RFC) arrived in Saint-Omer and a headquarters was established at the aerodrome next to the local race course. For the following four years, Saint-Omer was a focal point for all RFC operations in the field. Although most squadrons only used Saint-Omer as a transit camp before moving on to other locations, the base grew in importance as it increased its logistic support to the RFC. Many Royal Air Force squadrons can trace their roots to formation at Saint-Omer during this period. Among which are No. IX Squadron RAF which was formed at Saint-Omer, 14 December 1914 and No. 16 Squadron RAF which was formed on 10 February 1915.

During World War II, the Luftwaffe used the airfield. When the RAF's legless Battle of Britain ace, Douglas Bader, parachuted from his Spitfire during an aerial battle over France, he was initially treated at a Luftwaffe hospital at Saint-Omer. He had lost an artificial leg when bailing out, and the RAF dropped him another one during a bombing raid.

Main sites
The fortifications (which had been improved by Vauban in the 17th century) were demolished during the last decade of the 19th century, and boulevards and new thoroughfares built in their place. A section of the ramparts remains intact on the western side of the town, converted into a park known as the jardin public (public garden). There are two harbours outside the city and another within its limits. Saint-Omer has wide streets and spacious squares.

The old cathedral was constructed almost entirely in the 13th, 14th and centuries. A heavy square tower finished in 1499 surmounts the west portal. The church contains Biblical paintings, a colossal statue of Christ seated between the Virgin Mary and St John (13th century, originally belonging to the cathedral of Thérouanne and presented by the emperor Charles V), the cenotaph of Saint Audomare (Omer) (13th century) and numerous ex-votos. The richly decorated chapel in the transept contains a wooden figure of the Virgin (12th century), the object of pilgrimages. Of St Bertin church, part of the abbey (built between 1326 and 1520 on the site of previous churches) where Childeric III retired to end his days, there remain some arches and a lofty tower, which serve to adorn a public garden. Several other churches or convent chapels are of interest, among them St Sepulchre (14th century), which has a stone spire and stained-glass windows. The cathedral has a huge Cavaillé-Coll organ, which is still playable.

A collection of records, a picture gallery, and a theatre are all situated in the town hall, built of the materials from the abbey of St Bertin. Several houses date from the 16th and 17th centuries. The Hôtel Colbert, once the royal lodging, is now occupied by an archaeological museum. The military hospital occupies the former English College, founded by the English Jesuits in 1593. It is now part of the Lycée Alexandre Ribot. Besides the Lycée, there are schools of music and of art.

The old episcopal palace adjoining the cathedral is used as a court-house. Saint-Omer is the seat of a court of assizes and tribunals, of a chamber of commerce, and of a board of trade arbitration.

Until 1942, the chief statue in the town was that of Jacqueline Robin, who, according to the mythology, had helped the town resist a siege by Marlborough and Prince Eugene of Savoy in 1711. However, the statue disappeared during the German occupation, taken to be melted down. Today, the remaining statues of people associated with the city:

 * L'abbé Suger
 * Pierre Alexandre Monsigny
 * Prince Ferdinand-Philippe d'Orléans, duc d'Orléans

Economy
Over the better part of the last century, the economy of Saint Omer had depended largely on one enterprise, that of the glass maker Arc International (situated in the neighbouring town of Arques). The economy of Saint Omer has diversified over the course of the past 50 years. Aside from the glass works at Arc International, major employers in the area include:

 * Alphaglass
 * Brasserie de Saint-Omer
 * Brasserie Goudale
 * Les Fromageurs de Saint Omer
 * La Societe des Eaux de Saint Omer
 * Centre Hospitalier Région de Saint-Omer
 * Bonduelle

The creation of new enterprises has seen a steady growth in the past 10 years with 2 147 enterprises as of 2020. In the town itself, there are a number of retail shops and services, as well as a large selection of restaurants, brasseries and cafés.

Historically, the economy of Saint Omer had also developed in the wetlands outside the city, known locally as le marais, which remains one of the last cultivated marais in France. The Marais Audomarois is currently listed as a UNESCO heritage site. The agricultural output from this area continues year-round, thanks to the mild climate and fertile soil. Among the specialties, cauliflower is a notable product and is exported throughout Europe. Other crops for which the area is known are carrots, endive, and watercress.

Nearby areas
At the end of the marshes, on the borders of the forest of Clairmarais, are the ruins of the abbey founded in 1140 by Thierry of Alsace. Thomas Becket sought refuge here in 1165. To the south of Saint-Omer, on a hill commanding the Aa, lies the camp of Helfaut, often called the camp of Saint-Omer.

On the Canal de Neufossé, near the town, is the Ascenseur des Fontinettes, a hydraulic lift which once raised and lowered canal boats to and from the Aa, over a height of 12m. This was replaced in 1967 by a large lock.

During the Second World War, the area was chosen as a launch site for the V-2 rocket. The nearby blockhouse at Éperlecques and underground complex of La Coupole were built for this purpose and are open to the public.

Culture
Saint-Omer is diverse in ethnic, linguistic and immigrant communities. Haut-Pont is a heavily West Flemish section of Saint-Omer which has Flemish/Belgian roots. In the Southeast of the cathedral is a newly formed Turkish neighborhood; the majority of the local Turks are members of the Christian faith (i.e. Greek Orthodox or of ethnic Greek origin, Eastern Rite and Catholic converts), who arrived in France after World War I to escape religious persecution. Genealogists have noted the many cultural influences in the area, including British, Dutch, German, Austrian, Hungarian, Czech, Slovak and Polish. It is believed the region's mining and glass manufacturing industries contributed to a revived post-war (WWI and WWII era) population.

Public library
The public library of Saint-Omer holds, in its rare books section, one of the three French copies of the 42-line Gutenberg Bible, originally from the library of the Abbey of Saint Bertin. The other two copies are in Paris. In November 2014, a previously unknown Shakespeare First Folio was found in a public library in Saint-Omer. The book had lain undisturbed in the library for 200 years. The first 30 pages were missing. A number of experts assisted in authenticating the folio, which also had a name, "Neville", written on the first surviving page, indicating that it may have once been owned by Edward Scarisbrick. Scarisbrick had fled England due to anti-Catholic repression and attended Saint-Omer College, a Jesuit institution. Confirmation of its authenticity came from a professor at the University of Nevada and one of the world's foremost authorities on Shakespeare, Eric Rasmussen, who happened to be in London at the time. The only other known copy of a First Folio in France is in the National Library in Paris.

Sports
St. Omer was the host of the 2022 Canoe Polo world championships.

Notable people

 * Omer, ou Audomarus ou Audemer (600 – † 670), monk, named bishop of Therouanne, canonised under the name of Saint Omer
 * Lambert (late 11th – early 11th century), canon of Saint-Omer, author of the Liber floridus
 * Godfrey de Saint-Omer, founding member of the Knights Templar in 1118
 * Charles Blondin (28 February 1824 – 22 February 1897), tightrope walker and acrobat
 * Hippolyte Carnot (1801–1888), statesman
 * Antoine Davion (c. 1664–1726), Mississippi missionary, 1698–1725
 * Joseph Liouville (1809–1882), mathematician
 * Robert Parsons (1546–1610), Jesuit founder of the English Jesuit College of Saint-Omer
 * Jean Titelouze (c. 1562/3–1633), organist and composer, first composer of the French organ school
 * Claude Dausque (1566–1644), humanist, scholar and canon of Tournai, considered one of the most erudite men of his time
 * Françoise de Saint-Omer (1581–1642), founder of the religious order of reformed Capucins
 * Pierre-Alexandre Monsigny (1729–1817), composer
 * Daniel Carroll (22 July 1730 in Upper Marlboro – 4 May 1796 in Rock Creek, Maryland), one of the founders of the United States; he was one of the only Catholics to sign the Constitution of the United States. He had studied at the English Jesuit College of Saint Omer.
 * John Carroll (born 8 January 1735 in Upper Marlboro, England – 3 December 1815 in Baltimore), an American Jesuit priest who had studied at the English Jesuit College in Saint Omer. He was the 1st bishop in the United States (the diocese of Baltimore) and he founded Georgetown University.
 * Charles Carroll of Carrollton (19 September 1737 – 14 November 1832), delegate to the Continental Congress, Senator from Maryland. He was the only Catholic to sign the Declaration of Independence. Like his cousins, he also studied at the Jesuit College in Saint Omer.
 * Albert Louis Valentin Taviel (1767–1831), born in Saint-Omer, died in Paris, he was a general of the French Revolution and of the Empire.
 * Pierre Alexandre Joseph Allent (1772–1837), born in Saint Omer, he was a general of the French Revolution and of the Empire.
 * Martin Charles Gobrecht (1772–1845), born in Cassel (Flanders) and died in Saint-Omer, he was a general of the French Revolution and of the Empire.
 * Eustache-Louis-Joseph Toulotte (1773–1860), French revolutionary and writer
 * Eugène Casimir Lebreton (1791–1876), born in Saint Omer, he served in the French army under the 1st Empire and later became a politician.
 * Joseph Bienaimé Caventou (born 1795 in Saint-Omer, died 1887 in Paris), chemist, pharmacist, co-discoverer of quinine
 * Émile Lefranc (27 August 1798 – 18..), born in Saint-Omer. Historian, geographer and author of school books. He was an associate professor at the University and also translated from ancient Greek into French and wrote in Latin.
 * Lazare Hippolyte Carnot (6 April 1801 – 16 March 1888 in Paris), French politician, born in Saint-Omer.
 * Louis Noël (9 February 1807 in Saint-Pierre-lez-Calais – 18 February 1875 in Saint-Omer), sculptor
 * Alfred Frédéric Philippe Auguste Napoléon Ameil (8 November 1807 – 27 March 1886 in Versailles), major general in the French army, born in Saint-Omer.
 * Louis Martel (politician) (13 September 1813 in Saint-Omer – 4 March 1892 in Évreux), president of the Senate in France, minsute of Justice
 * Louis-François-Joseph Deschamps de Pas (25 June 1816 in Saint-Omer – 1 March 1890 in the same city), engineer and archaeologist. He published several important works concerning the archaeology in and around Saint Omer.
 * François Chifflart (25 March 1825 in Saint-Omer – 19 March 1901 in Paris), painter, illustrator and etcher
 * Alphonse de Neuville (31 May 1836 – 18 May 1885), painter. He was a student of Delacroix.
 * Alexandre Ribot (7 February 1842 in Saint Omer – 13 January 1923 in Paris), statesman, four times Prime Minister
 * Tanguy Malmanche (7 September 1875 – 20 March 1953), French writer involved in the revival of Breton culture
 * Éric Morena (27 October 1951 – 16 November 2019)[1], French singer. He was born in Saint-Omer and was made famous by his 1987 hit "Oh ! Mon bateau".
 * Raoul Castex (27 October 1878 in Saint-Omer – 10 January 1968 in Villeneuve-de-Rivière), French Navy admiral and a military theorist. Founder of the IHEDN (Institut des hautes études de défense nationale).
 * Germaine Acremant (1889–1986), writer, notable for her work Ces dames aux chapeaux vert
 * Robert Ficheux (ro) (1898–2005), French historian and geographer, born in Saint-Omer. Les Palmes Académiques (17 October 1998).
 * Jean-Pierre Évrard, photographer, born in 1936 in Saint Omer, whose works ar notable for being exclusively in black and white on paper
 * Max Méreaux, composer, born in Saint Omer in 1946

Twin towns
Saint Omer is twinned with:
 * 🇬🇧 Deal, United Kingdom
 * 🇩🇪 Detmold, Germany
 * 🇧🇪 Ypres, Belgium
 * 🇵🇱 Żagań, Poland

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Saint-Omer


text:
Talk:135 film

The 135 film and 35mm film pages should be synchronized better.
Suggestion: Let 135 focus on the cartrdige and still photograpy, 35mm focus on the cine aspect.

 * We should move what is related to still photography in 35mm film here and link still photography uses to  135 film.

Ericd

"The camera that introduced the format, and also proved that a format this small was suitable for professional photography was the Leica rangefinder camera" Well the original Leica didn't have a rangefinder. Ericd

 * Your're right. Did you fix it? Egil

DX
When was the DX encoding introduced ? Ericd

 * First SLR to read DX was a Konica in 1985, so at least it must be 1980s Egil

Who introduced the 135 cartridge? I have read Agfa, and this makes sense since Exakta and Leica were both German. -- Egil 16:02 Jan 28, 2003 (UTC)
 * I'll answer this one myself: It was Kodak who introduced itm but the invention was done in Germany.

And please: Do read the entire article before adding new material. There is a facts section firstm, then a "history" section. -- Egil 18:48 Jan 28, 2003 (UTC)

Alternate frames
Didn't Canon make a crazy camera that shot alternating frames with the film going forward, and filled in the others in reverse? The idea is that short pauses for wind would be less annoying than long pauses for rewind (or load). If I recall correctly, it was a flop because some manufacturers placed different lengths of film in cartridges (or perhaps people using bulk loaders caused the problem).

Don't know how many isolated anecdotes an encyclopedia article should contain...

 * Are you sure you're not thinking about the fact that some cameras unwind the film fully and then pull it back into the spool (see the article for details)? Fourohfour 16:38, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I realize I'm responding ten years later, but I remember this thing. IIRC it was a pro model targeted at wedding photographers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.17.124.2 (talk) 09:10, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Cartridge vs. Cassette
The Photographer's Handbook, A Beginner's Guide To Close-Up Photography, and the manual for my Olympus XA2 all refer to 135 film as being on "cassettes", using "cartridge" to refer specifically to 110, 126, submini, and other fully enclosed formats. Therefore I have Been Bold and changed the article to use this terminology.

Removing ref to demise of APS
I've removed the sentance claiming that APS was discontinued in 2004, on the grounds that it's not supported by anything in the Advanced Photo System article, I have no trouble finding APS film proudly advertised on Fujifilm's and Kodak's web sites (and cameras on the former), and even if true it would belong in the article on APS and not here. Sharkford 03:39, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I wouldn't be surprised if 2004 was the year that APS advocates admitted the format's lack of success, but yes, it's still available. —Matthew Brown (T:C) 04:47, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Rulers
Regarding the change of photograph containing a ruler, on the grounds that the old one was misleading; yeah, maybe it was, but it missed one important point. In addition to taking up space and being distracting, they're just not that useful.

Why? Becase we can say that (e.g.) "the frame is 36 x 24mm" in the caption. We can mark this on the photograph if necessary, so it isn't necessary to have the ruler there. For a sense of scale, well.... better to have a ballpoint pen. A ruler with inches and the like on it only provides "scale" if you know how big an inch is, and if you do, you don't need the ruler(!)

Fourohfour 18:56, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

135?
Where does the number 135 come from? --Abdull 16:12, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Maybe there is a 1 too much. If it is a mistyping we should remove the 1 and write 35. --134.155.99.41 15:47, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

 * No, 135 is the standard code number given to 35mm film perforated for still photographic (rather than movie) use, and packaged in the familiar canister. Not all 35mm film comes in this form. Fourohfour 18:12, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The 1 comes from the list of films that Kodak created. So the first model was 101, then 102, 103 etc Francisco Jose Lopes (talk) 10:55, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

Bad perforation math
135 film says, "The film itself has the same dimensions (35 mm wide) and perforations (16 per 72 mm) (KS1870) as 35 mm movie print film..."

The math here seems wrong. The KS1870 perforation pitch is 0.1870" (meaning 0.1870" from leading edge to leading edge), and all KS perfs are 0.0780" high (dimension D). So 0.1870*15+0.0780 => 2.8830" (73.2mm). Or if you ignore the fencepost and just take 0.1870*16 => 2.9920" (76.0mm).

Where does 16/72mm come from? Jhawkinson 23:26, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * still negative is 36 mm, and has 8 perfs. discrepency is the space between the frames no doubt.  perhaps the article should just refer to the 8 perf per frame, or perhaps perfs per foot!  (64.17122) and that is close to the 8 perfs for each of 8 images per foot.cmacd 17:39, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

 * ✅ Thanks. I've removed 72mm and specified the standard frame fits within 8 perfs. jhawkinson 01:28, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

More Bad Math - Missing 1 mm
This article states twice that the film is 35mm wide and the image area is 36mm wide. now, last time i checked, 36mm was 1mm longer than 35mm. so either the film size has changed, the image size has changed, or 135 refers to some other measurement. anyone? Zmbe 21:48, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

 * The image is rotated 90 degrees on the film. So 36mm "image width" is really 36mm of length when you're thinking of 35mm as the width. jhawkinson 03:32, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

That's not the answer, why is called 35mm when in fact the film is 36mm? chrysmun 16:35, 05 Oct 2013 (UTC)

 * The long axis of the frame is orientated along the film. Seen this way, the frame is 24 mm high while the film is 35 mm high. --Imroy (talk) 17:27, 5 October 2013 (UTC)

perf-to-perf length, language
Saying "The perforation-to-perforation length" is a bit confusing, since, to me, it implies the length from the left edge of the first perforation to the right edge of the last perforation, i.e. discounting the space between perforations for those outer two boundary perfs. pitch*8 gives you half of the perforation pitch on either side of the frame. (This is a difference of 0.077" or 1.96 => 2 mm.) jhawkinson 16:06, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree with you. See my attempt to clear this up. Frankly I think I may have made it worse. There is a fencepost error, where the center-to-center dimension of 9 physical perfs is roughly 38 mm. But we count the beginning perf as the zeroth. Let's work together to make this clear. I can scan a neg and add an illustration ?? Caltrop 19:10, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I removed the duplicated opening sentence (it was exactly the same as the section above). I added a GFDL illustration and changed the frame size para as follows.
 * The standard image format is 24 × 36 mm. The film advances 8 perforations, or 38 mm for each frame. This allows for a 1 mm left and right border between frames. Each camera model has a different location for the sprocket which advances the film. Therefore each camera model's frame will vary in position relative to the perforations.
 * Caltrop 21:41, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I do think this is an improvement. It's not a question of zero-count versus one-count. Please don't link to external sites when the same information is in Wikipedia. I think that Film perforations does a decent job, but if you think it needs more detail on KS-1870 perfs, please Be Bold (I did just now add a clarification that it applies to still film). I removed the link and moved the KS-1870 stuff into Characteristics, because I don't think the casual reader needs it presented in the lede. I think your illustration is fine, but I do have a question: Shouldn't the 38mm area be from the midpoint between two perfs until the midpoint between two other perfs? That's how it is in MP. But I'm not really a still film standards guy, just MP. I don't seem to have a copy of ISO1007. Anyone? jhawkinson 22:54, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Not to be too whiny, but it's a bit jarring to go back and forth between metric and english units. Also, while the pulldown (pullacross?) might be specified at 1.4960", it's not as if cameras necessarily manage that to 5 decimals. jhawkinson 00:00, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * When the film is sold in 35mm by 100Ft rolls, it is difficult not to mix the units. Photographers have been working with this situation for years.  Suggest that metric units be put in brakets after the Inch-foot-Pound values where needed.  Just outright conversion would cloud the industry conventionscmacd 13:10, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Mini Wiki-break time for me on this article. Cheers Caltrop 02:23, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Article needs work
Infused with much ad inserts + too much on digital. How many manufacturers making film? - maxrspct  ping me  11:33, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

"Olympus Pen cameras where the smaller frame size allowed a very compact pocket sized camera" this sentence is put after a mention of half frame cameras and directly after 24mm x 24mm format photography however due to the structure of the paragraph it seems misleading and at worst could suggest a 3rd frame format and at best is ambiguous between half frame and 24mm x 24mm photography. Slight restructure or better linking could solve this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.217.136.40 (talk) 14:15, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Digital conversion
Is there some simple way of converting 35mm cameras to take digital images? Drutt (talk) 20:07, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

 * I don't know if it is still available, but I saw a digital adaptor unit exhibited at a camera show around 5 or 6 years ago that would fit into most 35mm cameras. It looked rather like a standard 35mm cassette with a projecting 'tongue'.  The tongue was the sensor and the cassette part contained the electronics and battery.  IIRC, the unit would store a number of images in its memory before they had to be downloaded.  I can't find any reference to it now, so I assume it's no longer available.  One organisation did produce a website for such a product as an April Fool prank (See here), but I'm not sure that they were aware that someone beat them to the punch. 109.145.22.224 (talk) 14:18, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

First system camera
In the photo caption for the Nikon F it is stated that the F was the _first_ system camera. While it might have been the first system camera to achieve a mass market, it was introduced in 1959 at which time Leica had had a system camera in production for more than 20 years. The Zeiss Contax I system was also in production in the 1930s, with production interrupted by WWII and the Soviet capture of the Zeiss works. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.250.12.74 (talk) 11:30, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Dead link
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

 * http://en.leica-camera.com/news/news/1/6378.html
 * In 135 film on 2011-05-23 02:56:17, 404 Not Found
 * In 135 film on 2011-06-01 14:49:07, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 14:49, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

start of sentence
Sentences should not start with digits (see WP:NUMNOTES), so many of the sentences need to be rewritten. Bubba73 You talkin' to me? 08:58, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Difference from 35 mm format?
Can someone help me understand the difference between 135 film and 35 mm format? The two articles seem to cover roughly the same ground. Rublov (talk) 22:04, 27 September 2021 (UTC)

Merger proposal
Regarding what Rublov asked, my understanding is that these pages are essentially the same.

With that in mind, I propose merging 35 mm format into 135 film. They cover much of the same ground, being two separate articles for the exact same subject. 35 mm format is also not a long enough article to cause issues with length if merged into 135 film. I would recommend merging in this direction because most other article discussing film formats are named after their ISO standard (120 film, 127 film) or product name Advanced Photo System rather than their common name. Goshawksonlyfly (talk) 14:29, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Support unless someone can explain the difference between the two articles. Rublov (talk) 16:57, 7 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Support These are so similar that they are practically identical. Merge. Qono (talk) 16:42, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:135 film


text:
Interpedia

Interpedia was one of the first-proposed online encyclopedia which would allow anyone to contribute by writing articles and submitting them to the central catalogue of all Interpedia pages.

History
Interpedia was initiated by Rick Gates, who posted a message titled "The Internet Encyclopedia" on October 25, 1993 to the PACS-L (Public-Access Computer Systems Forum) Listserv. That message included the following musings:

"The more I thought about this, the more I realized that such a resource, containing general, encyclopedic knowledge for the layman, would be an important tool for some types of research, and for the Net.Citizenry in general.

Ahh.. but what about contributors... where will you find authors to write the short articles you need? Well, I'd first have to start out by finding some way of communicating with an extremely diverse set of people... everyone from linguists, to molecular biologists, from animal rights activists to zymurgists, and from geographers to gas chromotographers. Guess what? :-) The Net provides just such an arena! So I thought about it some more...and came to the conclusion that this is a good idea!"

In November 1993, discussions moved to a dedicated mailing list, supplemented later by Usenet newsgroup comp.infosystems.interpedia.

Several independent "Seal-of-approval" (SOAP) agencies were envisioned which would rate Interpedia articles based on criteria of their own choosing; users could then decide which agencies' recommendations to follow.

The project was actively discussed for around half a year, but never left the planning stages, perhaps partly due to the unprecedented growth of the World Wide Web.

title: Interpedia


text:
Disc

Disk or disc may refer to:
 * Disk (mathematics), a two dimensional shape, the interior of a circle
 * Disk storage
 * Optical disc

Music

 * Disc (band), an American experimental music band
 * Disk (album), a 1995 EP by Moby

Other uses

 * Disc harrow, a farm implement
 * Discus throw or disc throw, a track and field event involving a heavy disc
 * Intervertebral disc, a cartilage between vertebrae
 * Disk (functional analysis), a subset of a vector space
 * Disc (galaxy), a disc-shaped group of stars
 * Disc (magazine), a British music magazine
 * Disk, a part of a flower
 * Disc number, numbers assigned to Inuit by the Government of Canada

Abbreviations

 * Death-inducing signaling complex
 * DISC assessment, a group of psychometric tests
 * Defence Intelligence and Security Centre or Joint Intelligence Training Group, the headquarters of the Defence College of Intelligence and the British Army Intelligence Corps
 * Delaware Independent School Conference, a high-school sports conference
 * Devrimci İşçi Sendikaları Konfederasyonu, a Turkish trade union centre
 * Domestic international sales corporation, a provision in U.S. tax law
 * Dundee International Sports Centre, a sports centre in Scotland
 * International Symposium on Distributed Computing, an academic conference

title: Disc


text:
Sid and Marty Krofft

Sid Krofft (born July 30, 1929) and Marty Krofft (April 9, 1937 – November 25, 2023), known as The Krofft Brothers and born as Cydus and Moshopopoulos Yolas, were a Canadian sibling team of television creators, writers and puppeteers. Through their production company, Sid & Marty Krofft Pictures, they made numerous children's television and variety show programs in the U.S., particularly in the 1970s, including H.R. Pufnstuf, Land of the Lost, and Sigmund and the Sea Monsters. Their fantasy programs often featured large-headed puppets, high-concept plots, and extensive use of low-budget special effects.

Early years
The Krofft brothers, Sid and Marty, were both born in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, on July 30, 1929, and April 9, 1937 respectively. They are of Greek and Hungarian descent, with their original surname being Yolas. For years, they claimed to have been the fifth generation of puppeteers in their family but revealed in 2008 that this story had been invented by a publicist in the 1940s. Their father Peter was a clock salesman who moved from Canada to Providence, Rhode Island, and then to New York City. Sid Krofft became a popular puppeteer who worked in vaudeville and was a featured player with the Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey Circus. In the 1940s, Sid created a one-man puppet show regularly performed at burlesque shows as a teenager. A night club promoter from the Catskills was convinced by Sid to create a show he named from the name, Sydney Snitkovsk. Sid added an extra F due to its short length to "The Unusual Artistry of Sid Krofft", that began to be performed throughout the world. His father joined him on tour in Paris while Marty stayed in New York, where he began using his older brother's puppets to earn money by staging performances. By the 1950s, the Krofft brothers were working together, and in 1957, they developed Les Poupées de Paris, a puppet show with more mature themes. One of their early exposures to a television audience was the premiere episode of The Dean Martin Show in 1965.

Television productions
After designing the characters and sets for Hanna-Barbera's The Banana Splits (NBC, 1968–1970), the Kroffts' producing career began in 1969 with the landmark children's television series H.R. Pufnstuf. The series introduced the team's trademark style of large-scale, colourful design, puppetry, and special effects. Featuring a boy who has been lured into an alternate fantasy world and can never escape, the team also established a storytelling formula to which they would often return. Some people suggested that the Krofft brothers were influenced by marijuana and LSD, although they have always denied these claims. In a 2005 interview with USA Today, Marty Krofft said, "No drugs involved. You can't do drugs when you're making shows. Maybe after, but not during. We're bizarre, that's all." Referring to the alleged LSD use, Marty said in another interview, "That was our look, those were the colours, everything we did had vivid colours, but there was no acid involved. That scared me. I'm no goody two-shoes, but you can't create this stuff stoned."

The Kroffts favoured quirky superhero stories, often with children portraying the heroes or part of a hero team. Particularly visionary and popular Krofft productions have included The Bugaloos (1970), Lidsville (1971), Sigmund and the Sea Monsters (1973–1975), Land of the Lost (1974–1976), The Lost Saucer (1975), Electra Woman and Dyna Girl (1976), and Wonderbug (1976–1978).

The World of Sid and Marty Krofft
In 1976, a developer asked the Kroffts to develop an indoor amusement park for the new Omni International complex downtown Atlanta. The park, The World of Sid and Marty Krofft, closed after six months due to poor attendance. The Omni International building that contained it was renamed the CNN Center when the site was converted to the CNN headquarters.

Achievements
The Kroffts' children's programs have developed a wide and enduring following, especially among adults who watched the shows as children. They were also responsible for a large number of prime-time music and variety programs. These shows also tended to employ a reliable formula featuring a celebrity host or team of hosts, weekly celebrity guest performers, flashy and colourful sets, and frequent interludes of scripted banter and gag-driven, "corny," good-natured sketch comedy.

The Kroffts are often acknowledged for the vision and creativity of their projects. In addition to their colourful and hyper-kinetic programs, they often created children's shows with complex stories, unusual protagonists, and uniquely modern sensibilities, or with darker or more action-themed tones than most children's shows. Their "camp" popularity stems largely from their shows' low-budget production values, the often surrealistic feel of many of the programs, and the uniquely "70s" style of music and design.

Later years
The Kroffts have occasionally departed from their formula while making new programs, such as on Pryor's Place (1984) and the political puppet satire show D.C. Follies (1987). They have attempted to update some of their classic series for a younger generation, including new versions of Land of the Lost, Electra Woman and Dyna Girl, H.R. Pufnstuf and Sigmund and the Sea Monsters. A new original series, Mutt & Stuff, aired on Nickelodeon from 2015 to 2017.

In 2018, the Kroffts received the Lifetime Achievement Award at the Daytime Emmys.

In 2020, the Kroffts were honoured with a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame for their contributions to television.

In May 2022, the Kroffts participated in the first Krofft Kon, a convention held in Orinda, California, where they were joined by some of the actors from their television series.

Marty Krofft died from kidney failure in Los Angeles, California, on November 25, 2023, at the age of 86.

TV series

 * The Banana Splits (1968; characters created for Hanna-Barbera Productions)
 * H.R. Pufnstuf (1969)
 * The Bugaloos (1970)
 * Lidsville (1971)
 * Sigmund and the Sea Monsters (1973)
 * Land of the Lost (1974)
 * Far Out Space Nuts (1975)
 * The Lost Saucer (1975)
 * Donny & Marie (1976; a.k.a. The Osmond Family Show)
 * The Krofft Supershow (1976)
 * Kaptain Kool and the Kongs (1976)
 * Dr. Shrinker (1976)
 * Electra Woman and Dyna Girl (1976)
 * Wonderbug (1976)
 * Magic Mongo (1977)
 * Bigfoot and Wildboy (1977)
 * The Brady Bunch Hour (1977)
 * The Krofft Superstar Hour (1978; a.k.a. The Bay City Rollers Show)
 * Horror Hotel
 * The Lost Island
 * Pink Lady and Jeff (1980)
 * Barbara Mandrell & the Mandrell Sisters (1980)
 * Pryor's Place (1984)
 * D.C. Follies (1987)
 * Land of the Lost (1991)
 * Mutt & Stuff (2015)
 * Sigmund and the Sea Monsters (2016)

Television specials/pilots

 * Fol-de-Rol (1972)
 * The World of Sid & Marty Krofft at the Hollywood Bowl (1973)
 * Prevue Revue (1974)
 * Really Raquel (1974)
 * Jimmy Osmond Presents ABC's Saturday Sneak Peek (1976)
 * The Paul Lynde Halloween Special (1976) - Did not produce, but includes Witchiepoo and other Krofft regulars
 * The Brady Bunch Variety Hour (1976)
 * Kaptain Kool and the Kongs Present ABC All-Star Saturday (1977)
 * The Bay City Rollers Meet the Saturday Superstars (1978)
 * The Krofft Komedy Hour (1978)
 * Bobby Vinton's Rock 'n' Rollers (1978)
 * Anson & Lorrie (1981)
 * Oral Roberts Celebration (1981)
 * The CBS Saturday Morning Preview Special (1983)
 * Saturday's the Place (1984)
 * The Cracker Brothers (1985)
 * Rock 'n' Wrestling Saturday Spectacular (1985)
 * The Patti LaBelle Show (1985)
 * Sid & Marty Krofft's Red Eye Express (1988)
 * Krofft Late Night (1991)
 * Electra Woman and Dyna Girl (2001, unaired pilot)

Direct-to-video

 * Toby Terrier and His Video Pals (1993–1994) – Created to interact with an electronic toy manufactured by Tiger Electronics
 * Wishing Well Willy (1995)

Films

 * Pufnstuf (1970)
 * Middle Age Crazy (1980)
 * Side Show (1981)
 * Harry Tracy, Desperado (1982)
 * Land of the Lost (2009)

Live shows

 * Howdy, Mr. Ice of 1950 (1949)
 * Les Poupées de Paris (1961)
 * Funny World (1966)
 * Circus (1966)
 * Kaleidoscope (1968)
 * Fol-de-Rol (1968)
 * A Broadway Baby (1984)
 * Comedy Kings (1988)
 * "Blast" (1991)

Web series

 * Electra Woman and Dyna Girl (2016)
 * Sigmund and the Sea Monsters (2017)

title: Sid and Marty Krofft


text:
User:Pwsoft

First login to wikipedia on 24 january 2003. This site is cool!

I'm Peter, the webmaster of http://www.syntiac.com and author of the two virtual modular synthesizers software packages SynFactory and StudioFactory. I will add some information about synthesizers and electronic music to the wikipedia when I have time.

title: User:Pwsoft


text:
Talk:Hoegaarden

[Untitled]
I was under the impression that witbier simply means "white beer". After all, the Dutch word wit means "white", not "wheat" (that's tarwe in Dutch). You commonly hear people ask for a witteke (a "small white one") when ordering a witbier in pubs in Flanders. The French translation is bière blanche, which also means "white beer". Even the colour of the beer tends to be a cloudy white. D.D. 09:19 Jan 24, 2003 (UTC)
 * In Germany the terms "white beer" and "wheat beer" are used interchangeably. One may ask for either a Weissbier or a Weizen.

 * The original name for wheat beer is Weizen (En. wheat). My understanding is that the name Weissbier started as an alteration and/or abbreviation of Weizen. As often happens, words with similar sounds may be substituted for one another, and in this case there was even a justification for calling the beer white since it was cloudy and paler than traditional lagers, though not actually white.

 * I suspect that the name Weiss was carried into Belgium and France and translated directly. It's been about ten years since I read about Weizen/Weiss, so I'd encourage further elaboration or perhaps incorporating this history of names in entries for wheat beer.

 * There is a similar story regarding bock beer, which doesn't refer to a billy goat [Ger. ein Bock]. The beer was first brewed in Einbeck, Germany. In the local dialect the town's name was pronounced something like Einbock. "Einbock" sounds like ein Bock. Once goats started adorning the labels of beer bottles there was no going back. (Source: I Hear America Talking by Stuart Flexner, if memory serves.)--Rethunk

 * witbier does indeed mean "white beer," a description of the color of the beer. given belgium's rich history with beer, I tend to doubt that it's a corruption of the germam, although I suppose that's plausible. a Belgian French reference from 1798 refers to it as "bière blanche," which suggests that witbier was always "white," although I suppose the corruption could have occured long before that, considering beer is roughly as old as dirt.

 * the story about Bock is well-documented. Kajerm

There are also explicit "Tarwe" beers in Belgium. Like in Brugge. Since these types are pretty old, these terms probably even predate the current national languages.

Coat of arms
Does anyone know why the maniple is on the right arm in the Hoegaarden arms? Clergy wear the maniple on the left arm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.16.79.193 (talk) 17:24, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Is it really so that Hoegaarden the place is pronounced differently than the Hoegaarden beer/brewery. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flammie (talk • contribs) 13:27, 9 April 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hoegaarden


text:
John Carroll University

John Carroll University (JCU) is a private Jesuit university in University Heights, Ohio. Located in a suburb of Cleveland, it is primarily an undergraduate, liberal arts institution composed of a college of arts and sciences and business school. JCU has an enrollment of 3,650 students. Founded in 1886 as St. Ignatius College, it was renamed in 1923 after John Carroll, the first Catholic bishop in the United States.

History
John Carroll University was founded in 1886 by the Society of Jesus under the title of St. Ignatius College, after Ignatius of Loyola, as a college for men. It has been in continuous operation as a degree-granting institution since that time. Founded as the 19th of 28 Jesuit colleges and universities in the United States, it is a member of the Association of Jesuit Colleges and Universities.

In 1923, the college was renamed John Carroll University, honoring the first archbishop of the Catholic Church in the United States, who founded Georgetown University. In 1935, it was moved from its original location on the west side of Cleveland to its present site in University Heights, a suburb 10 mi east of downtown Cleveland. However, the high school section retained the original name and continues to operate on the original site in Cleveland. The city of University Heights had been renamed from "Idlewood" during the construction of the campus.

During World War II, John Carroll was one of 131 colleges and universities nationally that took part in the V-12 Navy College Training Program which offered students a path to a Navy commission.

In September 1968, the university made the transition from full-time male enrollment to a fully coeducational institution, admitting women to the College of Arts and Sciences for the first time. In recent years, the university has undergone extensive reconstruction and expansion. In 2003, the university opened the $66 million, 265,000 sqft Dolan Center for Science and Technology, named after alumnus Charles Dolan, founder of Cablevision and HBO, and his wife Helen Dolan. The couple met while attending John Carroll. In 2011, the university completed the removal of the Bohannon Science building and celebrated the Hamlin Quad enhancement project.

Jesuit tradition
The university announced in December, 2017 that its board of directors had named the school's first non-Jesuit president, Michael D. Johnson. Johnson had been the provost at Babson College in Wellesley, Massachusetts. He began his tenure on July 1, 2018, and was officially inaugurated on September 6, 2018.

Academics
John Carroll University is organized into two schools: the College of Arts and Sciences and the Boler College of Business, each defining its own academic programs under the auspices of the Academic Vice President. The university requires a comprehensive core curriculum for all undergraduate students. Students choose from among classes in the area of Jesuit Heritage, including two philosophy courses, two religious studies courses, and a social justice course. Students also take integrative courses, including a pair of linked courses on one topic, and a course on Engaging the Global Community.

College of Arts and Sciences
John Carroll University's College of Arts and Sciences offers more than 80 distinct programs for undergraduate and graduate students. Some of the most popular undergraduate majors are communications, biology, psychology, education, exercise science, political science, sociology, criminology, chemistry, and English.

Boler College of Business
On May 15, 2018, The Boler Family Foundation made a challenge gift of $10 million, kicking off the Inspired Lives Campaign, which was bolstered by an additional $5 million in contributions. The university announced the formation of the John M. and Mary Jo Boler College of Business, which will include two new schools: the School of Accountancy and Information Science, and the School of Leadership and Social Innovation.

Graduate programs
John Carroll University provides students the ability to continue their education in a graduate studies program. The Boler College of Business offers three graduate programs where students can earn a Master of Science in Accountancy, Full-Time Boler MBA, and Part-Time Boler MBA. In addition, the College of Arts of Sciences offers a variety of graduate programs of study.

International programs
John Carroll has several international programs in which eligible students are able to participate. The university operates several of their own programs and cooperates with other Jesuit universities in operating other programs. John Carroll University's Exchange Programs include the International Student Exchange Program, and programs at Kansai Gaidai University, Nanzan University and Sophia University, all in Japan as well as the Technical University of Dortmund, Germany and University of Hull, England. These programs include the Belfast Institute in Peace Building and Conflict Transformation, the Boler School of Business Semester in London, Italian Studies at Vatican City, the London Liberal Arts Semester, the Jesuit Beijing Center, as well as Casa de la Solidaridad in El Salvador.

All international programs, including those for international students who study at John Carroll, are managed by the university's Center for Global Education.

Scholarships
The university has four merit scholarships including the Presidential Honors Award, the Presidential Leadership Award, the Arrupe Scholars Award, and the Magis Scholarship. Department scholarships are offered by individual departments and include the Castellano Scholarship, usually awarded yearly to one or two freshman applicants who will major in the classical languages (Latin and Greek). This award covers full tuition for four years.

Rankings and awards

 * Selected as the 2nd best regional university in the Midwest in the 2023 U.S. News & World Report's ranking of all regional universities in their guide to "America's Best Colleges,". This was the 35th consecutive year that John Carroll had ranked in the top 10 on this list.
 * Ranked No. 15 on as a “Best Value” school and No. 27 on “Best Undergraduate Teaching" within its category in the 2023 U.S. News & World Report annual guide.
 * Chosen as one of Forbes Best Value Schools of 2016.
 * The John M. and Mary Jo Boler School of Business is ranked No. 1 in the nation in Bloomberg Businessweek's 2016 “Best Undergraduate Business Schools” Employer Survey for the graduates best prepared for work in their fields. The Boler School is ranked #30 overall in the country.
 * Selected as a Presidential Award Finalist for the President's Higher Education Community Service Honor Roll, the highest federal recognition a university can receive for its commitment to volunteering, service learning, and civic engagement. This year, John Carroll is one of only 14 colleges and universities nationwide to receive recognition as a finalist. This is the sixth consecutive year that the university has been named to the honor role.

Campus
More than twenty major buildings, predominantly Collegiate Gothic in architecture, and sixty landscaped acres make up the John Carroll campus. The administration building, Saint Ignatius Hall, surmounted by the university's landmark Grasselli Tower, bears clear resemblance to the English royal palace Hampton Court.

Student organizations
There are over 100 student-led organizations at John Carroll, many of which have the underlying goal of providing service to the community – be it the community of the local Cleveland area or the global community at large.

Greek life
Fraternities and sororities are approved by the John Carroll University Office of Student Activities and governed by the rules of the Interfraternity and Panhellenic Councils.

University organizations
The Center for Service & Social Action facilitates activities related to social justice as course components, and as voluntary one-time or semester-long experiences. The Center for Service and Social Action offers a variety of service opportunities for students looking to get involved and give back to the community. Many John Carroll University students take advantage of service opportunities during their undergraduate studies.

Housing
John Carroll is a primarily residential campus, with over 60% of all students living on campus in one of seven residence halls; 90% of freshmen and sophomores live on campus.

Athletics
John Carroll fields 23 varsity sports teams. The official colors are blue and gold, and teams compete under the nickname Blue Streaks. John Carroll teams compete in NCAA Division III. The university has been a member institution of the Ohio Athletic Conference since 1989.

The university plays football, lacrosse and soccer in Don Shula Stadium, named after the winningest coach in NFL history, who had studied at John Carroll between 1947 and 1951. Shula contributed to the stadium's construction, as did former Washington Redskins star and JCU alumnus London Fletcher '98.

In 1974–75, the wrestling team won the NCAA Division III national championship. In addition, three teams have qualified for the national semifinals in team sporting events: the 2002 football team, the 2003–04 men's basketball team, and the 2016 football team. On November 12, 2016, John Carroll defeated the University of Mount Union 31–28, snapping the program's college football record of 112 straight regular season wins.

There have been 22 individual national champions: 16 in wrestling, two in men's outdoor track & field, one in men's indoor track & field, one in women's outdoor track & field, one in women's diving, and one in men's swimming.

The Men's and Women's Swimming and Diving team has won 7 straight OAC championship titles (2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023), the men's tennis team won six straight OAC titles (2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2021). The Men's Lacrosse program has won 6 straight OAC championships since joining as a varsity sport in 2013.

The JCU men's basketball team won the OAC regular season and tournament titles in 2018. Since joining the OAC in 1989–90, John Carroll has won twice as many regular season titles (11) in men's basketball than any other school (5) over that span of time.

In club sports, the 2017–18 club rugby team qualified for the national championship. The ACHA division 1 club ice hockey team qualified for the national tournament in 2022.

title: John Carroll University


text:
Talk:Cattle age determination

This text seems to be taken from http://www.publicbookshelf.com/public_html/The_Household_Cyclopedia_of_General_Information/agecattle_if.html, which says it is an excerpt from The Household Cyclopedia of General Information, published 1881.

 * This is probably a copyright violation. Compare with Original Article and read the terms and copyright. They say: "5. Use on Other Web Sites. The Contents are licensed only for the personal, household, educational use by a single individual.  Reproducing Content on another site or redistributing Content is forbidden. Taking Content from this site and editing it and posting it on another site is also forbidden. Framing of this site is forbidden.". Thanks to User:Chadloder for locating the web source (this was done on 24th January 2003, do we really have a copyvio publication published here for a year???) .Optim 10:01, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)

January 4

 * Age of cattle features a quote from a book that "may not be accurate", and nothing else. -- Francs2000 08:34, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * This is probably a copyright violation. Compare with Original Article and read the terms and copyright. They say: "5. Use on Other Web Sites. The Contents are licensed only for the personal, household, educational use by a single individual.  Reproducing Content on another site or redistributing Content is forbidden. Taking Content from this site and editing it and posting it on another site is also forbidden. Framing of this site is forbidden.". Thanks to User:Chadloder for locating the web source (this was done on 24th January 2003, do we really have a copyvio publication published here for a year???) .Optim 10:02, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * The copyright claim is invalid because the Household Cyclopedia, being published in 1884 is in the public domain. Toph99 12:31, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * The article should be merged into an article on cattle or cows or bovines. However, I would be a bit wary of "technical" info that is this old. Still, it could be moved with the 1884 tag until someone with knowledge about aging cows comes along to correct - Marshman 18:08, 4 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Move to wikisource if you like it, since the information is too outdated to be reliable. Maximus Rex 20:06, 8 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Telling the age of cattle was well established by 1884. Wile E. Heresiarch 16:39, 9 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Expand. Telling the age of ruminants by looking in the mouth is seen in old movies and TV shows, and the adage "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" relates to this directly, though I agree the species is off a bit.  The historical information is interesting.  I have asked a university veterinary dental instructor if she would be interested in contributing to the article. Kd4ttc 18:27, 10 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Copyedit and expand [note history and innovation, if any] JDR

Out of date
Concerning the line "A early version of this article was an extract from The Household Cyclopedia of General Information, 1881. The methods described may therefore be out of date." The methods in this article are still used in the industry to determine the age of an animal. Cheers Beaver 23:52, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Cattle age determination. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070225200334/http://www.tnbeefcattleinitiative.org/ShirtPocketInfoSheets/Sp11.pdf to http://www.tnbeefcattleinitiative.org/shirtpocketinfosheets/sp11.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 10:04, 1 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Cattle age determination. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080727021341/http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/beef/400-010/400-010.html to http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/beef/400-010/400-010.html
 * Added tag to http://google.com/search?q=cache%3AmJ--YRP1uoMJ%3Awww.dpi.nsw.gov.au%2F__data%2Fassets%2Fpdf_file%2F0008%2F148355%2FLive-beef-cattle-assessment.pdf+Cattle+age+in+a+carcase+is+determined+looking+at+the+ossification&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=au
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080724120002/http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AN046 to http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AN046

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 08:22, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cattle age determination


text:
Talk:Ethan Allen

older entries
The Eastern seaboard of the United States changed from Julian to Gregorian calendar with Great Britain in 1752. Thus Ethan Allen was born under the Julian calendar. I think it's a bad idea to change his birthdate to Gregorian, especially without indictating that you've changed it. The date on which he was born was January 10, 1737/8 (O.S.) which is equivalent to January 21, 1738 (N.S.), and he died February 12, 1789. Is changing dates from Julian to Gregorian a standard? If so I think we should reconsider it. -- Someone else 09:35 Jan 24, 2003 (UTC)

On the January 21 page we can truthfully only say: Births:
 * 1738 - Ethan Allen, American patriot (+ 1789) who would have been born on January 21st if the Gregorian calendar were in effect when he was born, but who instead was born on January 10, the day on which he would have celebrated the aniversary of his birth. Nonetheless whe have chosen to give you the calculated date of his birth in the proleptic Gregorian calendar.

Or on the January 10 page we could say:

-- Someone else 09:47 Jan 24, 2003 (UTC) wat up
 * 1738 - Ethan Allen, American patriot (+ 1789) (the Julian date on which he was born)

Spy?
why is he tagge as an american revolution spy? i see no mention of this in the article.98.196.78.26 (talk) 04:04, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
 * perhaps speculations concerning the Haldimand Affair Tedickey (talk) 10:43, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Image wrong, tallx s inferior. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lyhendq (talk • contribs) 03:57, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Biased
The article is flagrantly biased toward the Tory point of view. A few years of study of contemporary literature could assist the author(s) in remedying the shortcoming.

-- Electrodynamic (talk) 23:16, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Perhaps you'd like to elaborate on what you consider to be "Tory bias" in the article.  Magic ♪piano 14:25, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

i think he is funny like a spy maybe — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.43.158.131 (talk) 16:59, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Height
It has been stated that Ethan stood about 6'4" in a couple of revolutionary publications. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TruckTurner (talk • contribs) 21:26, 20 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Please add that to the article! with a citation! :) The more editors here, the merrier. Outback the koala (talk) 06:07, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
 * While my perusal of sources was not quite exhaustive, I did specifically look for descriptions of Allen, since he was never imaged from life. The best description was the one in the Appearance section.  I don't recall any specific references to his height.  Magic ♪piano 19:51, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Not A Christian
Perhaps I missed something in the article but in the Preface to his book, Reason: The Only Oracle of Man, Allen says, "I am no Christian", yet he is tagged in this article as being a Christian, an 18th Century Universalist Christian, and a Universalist, which is a Christian denomination. He admits that he was baptized as an infant but calls himself a Deist. What the deally, yoh? Shall I remove those tags? Or can someone show me something I missed or make an argument that Deism is Christianity, in which case the article on Deism will badly need to be rewritten? -A none mouse. 27 August, 2011 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.57.126.163 (talk) 07:24, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

New 2011 Biography of Ethan Allen
There is a new biography of Ethan Allen by Willard Sterne Randall publshed in 2011. I am thinking of adding new citations from it to support the factual base of this existing Wiki article on Ethan Allen.

In addition, Randall's book has new information on Ethan Allen's childhood, and the religious disputes his father, Joseph Allen, was engaged in with the local Litchfield church over the dogma of Puritanism, disputes that lead the Allen family to move to Cornwall, Conneticut in search of freedom of religion. Randall shows that this quest for religious freedom was pursued by Ethan Allen, as well, in his adult life. I would like to add a paragraph or two on this to the text. Or maybe someone else would like to do this? ```` — Preceding unsigned comment added by Delancy (talk • contribs) 21:25, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Footnotes Added
I added Footnotes. and a couple of sentences, to the Wikiipedia article on Ethan Allen -- the section on Childhood. The footnotes are from the new book by Randall (2011) called Ethan Allen. Basically the footnotes have information on the Puritan background and religious commitments of the Allen family. I hope the information is helpful in shedding light on Ethan Allen's involvement in philosphical debates in his lifetime, some of which are treated near the end of the Wikipedia article.

I am a new editor and had to struggle a bit to get the mark-up code right on footnoting. At one point someone thought I had not given any footnotes, and deleted what I had done. However, I was just having difficulty figuring out the editing process and the formating for footnotes. The footnotes are now there, as well as the two sentence addition to the text. I have received a lot of help from CHZZ on this. Much thanks! I am wondering if MagicPiano, or other editors, have any comments or suggestions on what I have done. I'd like to add some more footnotes and supporting information from the Randall book on the Grants issue.

Delancy --Delancy (talk) 02:44, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

reliance on Bellesiles
I note this article relies very extensively on the work of one historian who appears to have had some problems in the past. Collect (talk) 12:43, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

 * Twenty out of more than 150 citations are to Michael Bellesiles. I did most of the work to cite this article, and was aware of Bellesiles' history.  Most of the initial citation was to Jellison, mainly because it was the best work I could actually borrow (this is well before Willard Sterne Randall published his biography).  I only later re-cited some material to Bellesiles for diversity.  There is relatively little here that is cited to Bellesiles that is not confirmable in other sources. (I believe most of what's cited to him is also not particularly controversial.)  Magic ♪piano 13:00, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Family Tree
https://familysearch.org/tree/person/9373-74V/details — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:242:4000:7812:84CB:CCDA:1AA:53E9 (talk) 18:02, 24 October 2016 (UTC)

Birthplace
The postcard shows a home which is located in Litchfield, CT. In the book "Images of America: Litchfield" by Ralph White (ISBN: 978-0-7385-7534-6) PG.53 shows a modern photo of the house and states that it was moved from Goshen, CT. This website (http://historicbuildingsct.com/?p=6345) states that the house was built in 1736, two years before Ethan Allen's Birth. When did they move the house from Goshen? Seems unlikely they did it 2 years after building it. Tommyborsh (talk) 20:50, 18 October 2017 (UTC)

Slight sentence syntax error
In the first sentence, "Ethan Allen (January 21, 1738 [O.S. January 10, 1737][4] – February 12, 1789) was a farmer, businessman, land speculator, philosopher, writer, lay theologian, and American Revolutionary War patriot, and politician", the article has and used in the sentence twice, first before "American Revolutionary War patriot," and then again before "politician". Either the first "and" was meant to be "an", or someone typed "and" twice, perhaps not noticing the error. If I have made a mistake here, I apologize, I do not usually do this sort of thing.

Birth Date
"Ethan Allen (January 21, 1738 [O.S. January 10, 1737]"

The O.S. is not a year off. Was he born in 1737 or 1738? 76.88.55.202 (talk) 17:15, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

 * See Old Style and New Style dates. At the time, according to the Julian calendar then in force, the new year was considered in the British colonies to begin on March 25, so a document (for example, a baptismal record) would have the date as "January 10, 1737". When this date is converted to the Gregorian calendar we use today (and was then in use in most of western Europe), whose year begins on January 1, it becomes "January 21, 1738".  Which year he was born in depends on which calendar you choose to consult.  Magic ♪piano 19:01, 10 May 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ethan Allen