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Judas Priest

Judas Priest are an English heavy metal band formed in Birmingham in 1969. They have sold over 50 million albums and are frequently ranked as one of the greatest metal bands of all time. Judas Priest have also been referred to as one of the pioneers of the new wave of British heavy metal (NWOBHM) movement, and are cited as a formative influence on various heavy metal subgenres, notably speed metal,  thrash metal,  and power metal. Despite an innovative and pioneering body of work in the latter half of the 1970s, the band had struggled with poor record production and a lack of major commercial success until 1980, when their sixth studio album British Steel brought them notable mainstream attention.

The band's membership has seen much turnover. During the 1970s, the core of bassist Ian Hill, lead singer Rob Halford and guitarists Glenn Tipton and K. K. Downing saw a revolving cast of drummers, before Dave Holland joined them for ten years from 1979 to 1989. Since Holland's departure, Scott Travis has been the band's drummer. Halford left Judas Priest in 1992, and after a four year hiatus, they regrouped in 1996 with Tim "Ripper" Owens, formerly of Winter's Bane, replacing Halford. After two albums with Owens, Halford returned to the band in 2003. Downing left the band in 2011, replaced by Richie Faulkner. The current line-up consists of Hill, Tipton, Travis, Halford and Faulkner; although Tipton remains as an official member of Judas Priest, he has limited his touring activities since 2018 due to Parkinson's disease, with Andy Sneap filling in for him. Hill and Tipton are the only two of the band to appear on every album.

Halford's operatic vocal style and the twin guitar sound of Downing and Tipton have been a major influence on heavy metal bands. Judas Priest's image of leather, spikes, and other taboo articles of clothing was widely influential during the glam metal era of the 1980s. The Guardian referred to British Steel as the record that defines heavy metal. Despite a decline in exposure during the mid-1990s, the band has once again seen a resurgence, including worldwide tours, being inaugural inductees into the VH1 Rock Honors in 2006, receiving a Grammy Award for Best Metal Performance in 2010, and having their songs featured in video games such as Guitar Hero and the Rock Band series. In 2022, Judas Priest were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame via the Award for Musical Excellence.

Origins (1969–1974)
Judas Priest were formed in 1969 in Birmingham, England, by lead vocalist Al Atkins and bassist Brian "Bruno" Stapenhill, with John Perry on guitars and John "Fezza" Partridge on drums. Perry took his own life at age 18, and amongst the replacements the band auditioned was future Judas Priest guitarist Kenneth "K. K." Downing; at the time, they turned him down in favour of 17-year-old multi-instrumentalist Ernest Chataway, who had played with Birmingham band Black Sabbath when they were still called Earth. Stapenhill came up with the name Judas Priest from Bob Dylan's song "The Ballad of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest" on the album John Wesley Harding. Partridge was replaced in 1970 by drummer Fred Woolley, who later re-joined Chataway and Stapenhill in the band Bullion. No member of that early line-up lasted long enough to play on the band's recordings, though several songs co-written by Atkins appeared on their first two albums.

The band recorded a two-song demo "Good Time Woman" and "We'll Stay Together" and eventually gained a three-album recording contract with the label Immediate in late 1969 after a gig in Walsall, but the label went out of business before an album could be recorded, and the band split in 1970. Late in the year, Atkins found a heavy rock band called Freight rehearsing without a singer, made up of K. K. Downing on guitars, his childhood friend Ian "Skull" Hill on bass, and drummer John Ellis. He joined them, and they took on Atkins' defunct band's name. Their first gig was on 6 March 1971. Ellis quit later that year and was replaced with Alan Moore. Early shows included Jimi Hendrix and Quatermass covers, and in 1972, the set list included the originals "Never Satisfied", "Winter", and the show-closer "Caviar and Meths". July 1971 also saw them making a 45 rpm demo of "Mind Conception" with "Holy is the Man" on the B side for the Zella Records label.

Moore left and was replaced with Chris "Congo" Campbell and the band joined the management agency of Black Sabbath guitarist Tony Iommi, Iommi Management Agency. Atkins continued to write material for the band—including "Whiskey Woman", which became the base for the Judas Priest staple "Victim of Changes"—but as finances were tight and he had a family to support, he played his last gigs with the band in December 1972. Campbell left soon afterwards, later to surface in the band Machine, and the band enlisted two members of the band Hiroshima: drummer John Hinch and vocalist Rob Halford, the brother of Hill's girlfriend. Halford and Hinch played their first show with Judas Priest in May 1973 at The Townhouse in Wellington. The show was recorded and part of it released in 2019 on the compilation Downer-Rock Asylum on the Audio Archives label along with one live song from the Atkins era.

Judas Priest made their first tour of continental Europe in early 1974 and they returned to England that April to sign a recording deal with the label Gull. Gull suggested adding a fifth member to fill in the band's sound; they took on as a second lead guitarist Glenn Tipton, whose group The Flying Hat Band were also managed by Iommi's agency.

Rocka Rolla (1974–1975)
Judas Priest went into the studio in June–July 1974 with Black Sabbath producer Rodger Bain. The band released their debut single "Rocka Rolla" that August and followed in September with the album of the same title. The album features a variety of styles—straight-up rock, heavy riffing, and progressive.

Technical problems during the recording contributed to the poor sound quality of the record. Producer Rodger Bain, whose resume included Black Sabbath's first three albums and Budgie's first album, dominated the production of the album and made decisions with which the band did not agree. Bain also chose to leave fan favourites from the band's live set, such as "Tyrant", "Genocide" and "The Ripper", from the album and he cut the song "Caviar and Meths" from a 10-minute song down to a 2-minute instrumental.

The tour for Rocka Rolla was Judas Priest's first international tour with dates in Germany, the Netherlands, Norway and Denmark including one show at Hotel Klubben in Tønsberg, one hour from Oslo, Norway, which scored them a somewhat negative review in the local press. The album flopped upon release, leaving Priest in dire financial straits. Priest attempted to secure a deal with Gull Records to get a monthly pay of £50, however, because Gull Records were struggling as well, they declined.

Sad Wings of Destiny (1975–1977)
The band performed "Rocka Rolla" on BBC Two's The Old Grey Whistle Test in 1975, as well as the "Dreamer Deceiver"–"Deceiver" pair the year before the songs appeared on Sad Wings of Destiny. Hinch left the band for reasons that are disputed and was replaced with Alan Moore, who returned to the band in October 1975. Finances were tight: band members restricted themselves to one meal a day—and several took on part-time work—while they recorded their follow-up album on a budget of £2,000. The group intended to make an album mixing straight-ahead rock with a progressive edge.

The band recorded Sad Wings of Destiny over two weeks in November and December 1975 at Rockfield Studios in Wales. The band stayed sober during the 12-hour recording sessions. The cover depicts a struggling, grounded angel surrounded by flames and wearing a devil's three-pronged cross, which became the band's symbol. The album was released in March 1976, with "The Ripper" as lead single. The band supported the album with a headlining tour of the UK from April to June 1976. By this time Halford joked that fans should burn their copies of Rocka Rolla.

The album had little commercial success at first and had difficulty getting noticed due to critical competition from the rise of punk rock, though it had a positive review in Rolling Stone. Fans, critics, and the band have since come to see Sad Wings of Destiny as the album on which Judas Priest consolidated their sound and image. It features heavy riffing and complex song arrangements that Tipton and Downing have said were inspired by the factories of the Black Country. The album's centrepiece "Victim of Changes" evolved from a combination of Atkins' "Whiskey Woman" and Halford's "Red Light Woman", and went on to become a fan favourite.

The band grew dissatisfied with Gull; the tight finances led Moore to leave the band a second time—this time permanently. Sad Wings of Destiny caught the attention of CBS Records, and with the help of new manager David Hemmings, the band signed with CBS and received a £60,000 budget for their next album. The signing required breaking their contract with Gull, resulting in the rights to the first two albums and all related recordings—including demos—becoming property of Gull. Gull periodically repackaged and re-released the material from these albums.

Sin After Sin, Stained Class and Killing Machine (1977–1979)
Judas Priest recorded their major-label debut, Sin After Sin, in January 1977 at The Who's Ramport Studios, with Deep Purple bassist Roger Glover as producer. Moore left again during the sessions and was replaced by session drummer Simon Phillips. The album features significant developments in heavy metal technique, in particular its use of double-kick drumming on tracks such as "Dissident Aggressor", and includes a pop-metal cover of "Diamonds & Rust" by folk singer Joan Baez.

Sin After Sin appeared in April 1977. It was the first Priest record under a major label, CBS, and the first of eleven consecutive albums to be certified Gold or Platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). Phillips declined to become a permanent member of Judas Priest, so the band hired Les Binks on Glover's recommendation. Together, they recorded 1978's Stained Class, produced by Dennis MacKay, and Killing Machine (released in America as Hell Bent for Leather). Binks, credited with co-writing "Beyond the Realms of Death", now regarded as one of the band's classics, was an accomplished and technically skilled drummer and his addition added a dexterous edge to the band's sound. Binks also played on Unleashed in the East (1979), which was recorded live in Japan during the Killing Machine tour. While the first three Judas Priest albums had considerable traces of Black Sabbath, Led Zeppelin, and Deep Purple in them, as well as ballads, Stained Class did not contain any ballads aside from "Beyond the Realms of Death". Killing Machine was the first nod to a more commercial sound, with simpler songs that brought back some blues influences. At about the same time, the band members adopted their now-famous "leather-and-studs" image.

Mainstream success years (1979–1991)
Following the release of Killing Machine (1978) was the live release from the supporting tour, Unleashed in the East (1979). It was the first of many Judas Priest albums to go platinum. There was some criticism of the band's use of studio enhancements and overdubbing in what was marketed as a live album. By this point the playing style of the band had grown progressively heavier, with live versions of songs such as "Exciter", "Tyrant" and "Diamonds and Rust" sounding much heavier and faster than their studio counterparts.

Les Binks quit in late 1979, as he was unhappy with the band's manager Mike Dolan's decision not to pay him for his performance on the live album, so they replaced him with Dave Holland, formerly of the band Trapeze. With this line-up, Judas Priest recorded six studio and one live album, which garnered different degrees of critical and financial success.

In 1980, the band released British Steel. The songs were shorter and had more mainstream radio hooks, but retained the familiar heavy metal feel. Tracks such as "United", "Breaking the Law", and "Living After Midnight" were frequently played on the radio. The next release, 1981's Point of Entry, followed the same formula, and the tour in support of the album featured new songs such as "Solar Angels" and "Heading Out to the Highway".

The 1982 album Screaming for Vengeance featured "You've Got Another Thing Comin'", which became a major radio hit in the US. Songs such as "Electric Eye" and "Riding on the Wind" also appeared on this album, and proved to be popular live. "(Take These) Chains" (by Bob Halligan Jr) was released as a single and received heavy airplay. This album went Double Platinum.

On 29 May 1983, the band played on Heavy Metal Day of the US Festival, a music festival in San Bernardino, California sponsored by Steve Wozniak. The band was fourth in the line-up that also included Quiet Riot, Mötley Crüe, Ozzy Osbourne, Triumph, Scorpions, and Van Halen.

Priest continued their success through the mid-1980s. "Freewheel Burning", released in 1983, was a regular on rock radio. Its album Defenders of the Faith was released the following year. Some critics dubbed it "Screaming for Vengeance II", due to its musical similarity to the previous album.

On 13 July 1985, Judas Priest, along with Black Sabbath and other performers, played Live Aid at JFK Stadium in Philadelphia. Their setlist included "Living After Midnight", "The Green Manalishi (With the Two-Pronged Crown)" and "(You've Got) Another Thing Comin'".

Turbo was released in April 1986. The band adopted a more colourful stage look and gave their music a more mainstream feel by adding guitar synthesizers. The album also went Platinum and had a successful arena tour in support, with 100 concerts in North America, Europe and Japan in 1986. A live album recorded on the tour, titled Priest...Live!, was released the next year, offering live tracks from the era. The video documentary Heavy Metal Parking Lot was created by Jeff Krulik and John Heyn in 1986. It documents the heavy metal fans waiting on 31 May 1986 for a Judas Priest concert (with special guests Dokken) at the Capital Center (later renamed US Airways Arena) in Landover, Maryland.

In May 1988, Ram It Down was released, featuring several reworked songs left over from Turbo, in addition to new songs. The band recorded three tracks with pop producers Stock-Aitken-Waterman: two originals, "Runaround" and "I Will Return", and a cover of The Stylistics' hit "You Are Everything". Producer Matt Aitken said of the sessions, "I think it was ill-conceived, it was unlikely it was going to work. But we went into it with the spirit of optimism, and we did the best with them, within the parameters within which we would be prepared to work. We weren't going to use live drum kits and stuff, and that probably made it a no go from the start. I have no idea why we were working with Judas Priest really, but I think we made a good fist of a heavy metal song. I think it sounded alright." The tracks were ultimately not included on this album due to a management decision.

A reviewer has called Ram It Down a "stylistic evolution" that resulted from the band's "attempt to rid themselves of the tech synthesiser approach ... and return to the traditional metal of their fading glory days". The reviewer argued the album showed "how far behind they were lagging ... the thrashers they helped influence" in earlier years. In 1989, longtime drummer Dave Holland left the band.

In September 1990, the Painkiller album used a new drummer, Scott Travis (formerly from Racer X), who gave the band an edgier sound thanks to his heavy use of double pedals. This comeback album also dropped the 1980s-style synthesisers for all songs except "A Touch of Evil". The tour used bands such as Annihilator, Megadeth, Pantera, Sepultura and Testament as opening bands, and culminated in the Rock in Rio performance in Brazil in front of 100,000+ fans.

Part of the Judas Priest stage show often featured Halford riding onstage on a Harley-Davidson motorbike, dressed in motorcycle leathers and sunglasses. During a Toronto show in August 1991, Halford was seriously injured as he rode on stage, when he collided with a drum riser hidden behind clouds of dry ice mist. Though the show was delayed, he performed the set before going to a hospital. Hill later noted "he must have been in agony". In a 2007 interview, Halford claimed the accident had nothing to do with his departure from the band.

Subliminal message trial
In 1990, Judas Priest was the subject of civil action in the United States which alleged that the band was responsible for an incident in Sparks, Nevada, in 1985 in which 20-year-old James Vance and 18-year-old Raymond Belknap shot themselves. On the evening of 23 December 1985, Vance and Belknap went to a church playground with a 12-gauge shotgun with the purpose of committing suicide. They had consumed alcohol and marijuana earlier that evening. The lawsuit alleged that the pair had been listening to Judas Priest's 1978 album Stained Class that night. Belknap was the first to place the shotgun under his chin, and died instantly after pulling the trigger. Some time later, Vance also shot himself, but succeeded only in disfiguring himself by blowing away the lower half of his face. Vance died three years later of a suspected drug overdose.

The Belknap and Vance families sued Judas Priest and its members, alleging that the band had embedded subliminal messages such as "try suicide", "do it" and "let's be dead" in the band's cover of the 1969 Spooky Tooth song "Better by You, Better than Me". Judas Priest had recorded the cover at the urging of their record company after the rest of Stained Class had been completed. The plaintiffs alleged that this subliminal command was the trigger which led directly to the pair deciding to shoot themselves. Vance's parents claimed that their son had been troubled for a long time prior to the suicide pact, but had recently "changed for the better" and had re-embraced his family's Christian faith before the "garbage music" of Judas Priest had again led him astray.

Local fans of heavy metal protested during the trial, calling for Judas Priest to be exonerated. The plaintiffs played the song at various speeds and backward, alleging the use of backmasking. The trial lasted from 16 July to 24 August 1990, when the judge dismissed the lawsuit on the basis that the so-called subliminal message "was a coincidental convergence of a guitar chord with an exhalation pattern". One of the defense witnesses, Dr. Timothy E. Moore, wrote an article for Skeptical Inquirer chronicling the trial. The trial was covered in a 1991 documentary film, Dream Deceivers: The Story Behind James Vance Vs. Judas Priest.

Halford's departure and Ripper years (1991–2003)
After the Painkiller tour ended in August 1991, there were indications of internal tensions within the band. Halford went on to form a street-style thrash metal group named Fight, with Scott Travis on drums for the recording sessions. He formed this band to explore new musical territory, but due to contractual obligations, he remained with Judas Priest until May 1992. In his 2020 memoir Confess, Halford blamed his departure on a "miscommunication", rather than an intentional desire to quit the band.

Halford collaborated with Judas Priest in the release of a compilation album entitled Metal Works '73–'93 to commemorate their 20th anniversary. He also appeared in a video by the same title, documenting their history, in which his departure from the band was officially announced later that year.

The remaining members of Judas Priest spent the next few years searching for a replacement for Halford. After many candidates were turned down, including Steve Grimmett (Grim Reaper, Lionsheart and ex-Onslaught), Ralf Scheepers (Primal Fear and ex-Gamma Ray), Whitfield Crane (Ugly Kid Joe), and former Accept singer David Reece, Tim "Ripper" Owens (who had previously sung in Winter's Bane and a Judas Priest tribute band called British Steel) was hired in 1996 as Judas Priest's new singer. This line-up released two studio albums, Jugulator in 1997 (in 1999, the song "Bullet Train" was nominated for a Grammy Award for Best Metal Performance ) and Demolition in 2001. A considerable stylistic departure from prior releases, the former has been characterised as groove metal and the latter as nu metal, both receiving mixed reviews. The line-up also gave rise to two live double-albums – '98 Live Meltdown and Live in London (2003), the latter of which had a live DVD counterpart.

In a February 1998 interview on MTV, Halford came out as gay.

Reunion and Angel of Retribution (2003–2006)

After eleven years apart, faced with an ever-growing demand for a reunion, Judas Priest and Rob Halford announced they would reunite in July 2003, to coincide with the release of the Metalogy box set (despite Halford's earlier insistence that he "would never do it" ). They did a concert tour in Europe in 2004, and co-headlined the 2004 Ozzfest, being named as the "premier act" by almost all US media coverage of the event. Judas Priest and "Ripper" Owens parted amicably, with Owens joining American heavy metal band Iced Earth.

A new studio album, Angel of Retribution, was released on 1 March 2005 (US) on Sony Music/Epic Records to critical and commercial success, earning the band a 2005 Metal Hammer Golden Gods Award for Best Album. A global tour in support of the album ensued. As for the band Halford, writing for the fourth release was cut off. After the Retribution tour in June 2006, however, Halford announced he would create his own record company, Metal God Entertainment, where he would release all his solo material under his own control. In November 2006 he remastered his back catalogue and released it exclusively through Apple's iTunes Store. Two new songs allegedly set for the fourth release, "Forgotten Generation" and "Drop Out", were released through iTunes as well.

Along with Queen, Kiss and Def Leppard, Judas Priest was an inaugural inductee into the "VH1 Rock Honors". The ceremony took place 25 May 2006 in Las Vegas, Nevada, and first aired on 31 May. Their presentation was preceded by Godsmack performing a medley of "Electric Eye"/"Victim of Changes"/"Hell Bent for Leather." Judas Priest then played "Breaking the Law", "The Green Manalishi (With the Two Prong Crown)" and "You've Got Another Thing Comin'", before which Halford rode a Harley-Davidson motorcycle onstage.

Nostradamus (2006–2010)
In a June 2006 interview with MTV.com, Halford said of the group's concept album about the 16th-century French writer Nostradamus, "Nostradamus is all about metal, isn't he? He was an alchemist as well as a seer – a person of extraordinary talent. He had an amazing life that was full of trial and tribulation and joy and sorrow. He's a very human character and a world-famous individual. You can take his name and translate it into any language and everybody knows about him, and that's important because we're dealing with a worldwide audience." In addition to digging new lyrical ground for the band, the album would contain musical elements which might surprise fans. "It's going to have a lot of depth", Halford said. "There'll be a lot of symphonic elements. We might orchestrate it, without it being overblown. There may be a massive choir at parts and keyboards will be featured more prominently, whereas they've always been in the background before." The album Nostradamus was released in June 2008; the band began a support tour in that same month.

In early February 2009, the band joined the ranks of bands speaking out against ticket-touting ("scalping"), issuing a statement condemning the practice of selling tickets at well above face value, and urging fans to buy tickets only from official sources. In the same month, Judas Priest continued their tour, bringing their "Priest Feast" (with guests Megadeth and Testament) to multiple arenas in England, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland in February and March 2009. From there the tour progressed to multiple venues in Sweden. Later in March, Judas Priest performed in Portugal (at Lisbon on the Atlantic Pavilion), which they had not visited since 2005. The tour then continued to Milan, Italy, and then Paris, France; Halford had last performed with Judas Priest in Paris in 1991.

From June through August 2009, Judas Priest completed a North American tour to commemorate the 30th anniversary of the release of British Steel (1980); the album was performed in its entirety on each tour date, with some other songs thrown in. This tour was to be a joint effort with fellow Englishman David Coverdale and Whitesnake. Unfortunately, Whitesnake would have to leave the tour after the show in Denver, Colorado on 11 August 2009 due to Coverdale falling ill with a serious throat infection; he was advised to stop singing immediately to avoid permanently damaging his vocal cords.

On 14 July 2009, Judas Priest released a new live album, featuring 11 previously unreleased live tracks from the 2005 and 2008 world tours, A Touch of Evil: Live. The performance of "Dissident Aggressor" won the 2010 Grammy Award for Best Metal Performance.

In May 2010, Halford said the band had been offered a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, but "we've just never been there when they wanted to do the ceremony." He also revealed that a Nostradamus tour was still being contemplated: "We were in Hollywood recently and met with some producers and agents, so there are a lot of things going on behind the scenes."

Downing's retirement and Epitaph World Tour (2010–2011)
Judas Priest announced on 7 December 2010, that their Epitaph World Tour would be the band's farewell tour and would run up until 2012. In a January 2011 interview, Halford said about the band's impending retirement: "I think it's time, you know. We're not the first band to say farewell, it's just the way everyone comes to at some point and we're gonna say a few more things early next year, so I think the main thing that we just want to ask everybody to consider is don't be sad about this, start celebrating and rejoicing over all the great things we've done in Judas Priest."

On 27 January 2011, it was announced that Judas Priest were in the process of writing new material; the band also clarified their plans for the future, saying, "this is by no means the end of the band. In fact, we are presently writing new material, but we do intend this to be the last major world tour." Speaking at a press conference in Los Angeles on 26 May of the new material Glenn Tipton said: "It's quite a mixed bag. Really, there's more sentiment on this album. In a way, I suppose, it's also our farewell album, although it might not be our last one. There are some anthems on there, which pay tribute to our fans".

On 20 April 2011, it was announced that K. K. Downing had retired from the band and would not complete the Epitaph World Tour. Downing cited differences with the band and the management, and a breakdown in their relationship. Richie Faulkner, guitarist for Lauren Harris' band, was announced as his replacement for the Epitaph World Tour. Downing's retirement left bassist Ian Hill as the longest-serving member of the band.

On 25 May 2011, Judas Priest played during the finale of American Idol season 10 with James Durbin, making it their first live performance without K.K. Downing. The band played a mixture of two songs: "Living After Midnight" and "Breaking the Law".

On 7 June 2011, the band announced that it planned to release the box set Single Cuts, a collection of singles, the following August.

Redeemer of Souls (2011–2015)
In an August 2011 interview with Billboard, Halford explained that he and Tipton had "about 12 or 14 tracks completely mapped out" for a new studio album, with four of those tracks already recorded and mixed. The band made a point to take its time with the album, with Halford explaining "I'm of the attitude it'll be ready when it's ready ... I don't think we're going to slack off. We're determined to do a lot of work and be just as dedicated as we've always been and take a lot of care and attention with all the songs. We're not going to just bang this one out, so to speak."

On 13 September 2011, Priest announced its plans to release a new compilation album, The Chosen Few, a set of Priest songs chosen by other iconic heavy metal musicians.

On 5 June 2013, Halford confirmed that the Epitaph World Tour would not be the band's final tour. On 22 December, Judas Priest released a short Christmas message on their official website, which confirmed that they would be releasing their next album in 2014.

On 17 March 2014 at the Ronnie James Dio Awards in Los Angeles, Halford announced that the band's 17th studio album was finished. On 28 April, the band released the album's title track "Redeemer of Souls" for streaming on their official website. On 14 May 2014, the band's original guitarist Ernie Chataway died at the age of 62 from cancer, as reported by vocalist Al Atkins. Redeemer of Souls was released on 8 July 2014. It sold around 32,000 copies in the United States in its first week of release to land at position No. 6 on The Billboard 200 chart, the band's highest charting position in the US after the double-disc concept album, Nostradamus, debuted at No. 11. This was the band's first top 10 album in the US. The band went on tour in support of the album which ran from 1 October 2014 until 17 December 2015. The Redeemer of Souls Tour led to the sixth live album Battle Cry, which was released on 25 March 2016 after being recorded at the Wacken Open Air festival in Germany on 1 August 2015.

Firepower and Tipton's retirement from touring (2015–2019)

In a November 2015 interview with Reverb.com, Richie Faulkner said that the band would start work on their eighteenth studio album in 2016. In April 2016, Loudwire posted a photo showing Rob Halford, Glenn Tipton and Faulkner himself in the studio beginning the process of the album, with Halford confirming in a radio interview that it would be ready by early 2017. During an interview at the 2016 edition of the Rock 'n' Roll Fantasy Camp, Halford expressed dissatisfaction on making an album similar to Redeemer of Souls. Faulkner then stated that the band would begin recording in January 2017 and also said that they would not go on tour until 2018.

In March 2017, the band entered the studio to begin the recording process, with support from long time producer Tom Allom, along with former Sabbat guitarist and producer Andy Sneap and engineer Mike Exeter, who worked with the band on the previous album. This marked the first time since 1988's Ram It Down that they had worked with Allom. In an April 2017 interview with Planet Rock, Halford said that the band was "coming to some of the final moments" of completion of the new album. He also promised "a very exciting 2018 period" with a world tour taking place in 2018. In an Instagram post in June 2017, Sneap said that the band completed tracking.

The eighteenth album, Firepower, was released on 9 March 2018, with a world tour taking place thereafter, beginning in North America with Saxon and Black Star Riders as their support acts.

On 12 February 2018, Glenn Tipton revealed that he had Parkinson's disease and would step down from touring. According to the band, the disease's progression left him unable to play the more challenging material. Tipton stated that he was still a member of the band despite his diagnosis and did not rule out future on-stage appearances. Andy Sneap was then announced as his replacement for the tour. Richie Faulkner later assured fans that Tipton would perform with the band "at some point in the tour." At the 20 March 2018 show in Newark, New Jersey, Tipton joined the band on stage to perform "Metal Gods", "Breaking the Law" and "Living After Midnight", then "Victim of Changes" and "No Surrender" on later dates. He continued to appear for encores throughout the remainder of the Firepower World Tour.

On 29 January 2019, Judas Priest's European tour with Ozzy Osbourne was cancelled after Osbourne experienced a severe upper-respiratory infection. The band later confirmed that the tour was rescheduled to 2020.

50th anniversary, Invincible Shield and possible follow-up album (2019–present)
In a March 2019 interview with Australia's May the Rock Be with You, Rob Halford stated that there would be a new studio album in the foreseeable future, and that Tipton had already started composing riffs. Bassist Ian Hill said that the band had "some very strong ideas that were left out of Firepower which we never got around to completing. So it's very much on the cards. When that will happen, I don't know." Despite Tipton's condition, Faulkner said that he would "very much be involved in the creation of the next record." Halford said that the band began compiling ideas for the next album, but said that Firepower would be difficult to top.

The writing sessions began in February 2020, with Andy Sneap and Tom Allom returning to contribute to the album's production. Faulkner said that a month's worth of songs was written prior to the COVID-19 lockdowns, and that the band would eventually begin composing material. Halford said that Tipton contributed material during the writing process, describing the songs as "monsters. Even in a very, very rough, primitive stage, they're great — they're really, really good." He explained that the album would capture "the emotion of what we're going through together."

Judas Priest were originally scheduled to embark on the 50 Heavy Metal Years Tour in 2020 in Europe and North America, but was pushed back to 2021 due to the COVID-19 pandemic;   however, due to its continued presence, the European leg was pushed back to 2022. They returned to the stage on 15 August 2021 as they headlined the Bloodstock Open Air festival, once again rejoined by Tipton for the encore songs. As the tour began on 8 September, the remainder of the US tour was postponed as Faulkner was hospitalized for major medical heart condition issues. It was rescheduled for the spring of 2022 with Queensrÿche as their support band, while the European leg with Ozzy Osbourne was rescheduled for 2023. However, Osbourne cancelled all shows for that year for health reasons.

On 29 April 2021, former drummer John Hinch died at the age of 73, as confirmed by Halford on Instagram. When speaking about the upcoming album, Halford said that the band had "a bunch of great new ideas for tracks, lots of really strong demos", describing it as being "a very potent record". Ian Hill said that there was enough material for at least an album or two, expressing doubt that it would be released before 2023 due to the band's tour schedule. Halford confirmed Tipton's appearance on the album.

In January 2022, Judas Priest announced the departure of Andy Sneap as he would shift his focus on his production work while the band continued as a quartet; however, the decision was retracted and he was reinstated. In regards to the album's musical direction, Faulkner and Halford said that it would take a more progressive approach than Firepower, but Faulkner elaborated on its meaning. Tipton assured that it would be "what every Priest fan will want", while explaining that the tracks may or may not fancy the fans’ taste, but expressed satisfaction in its sound. Faulkner described it being different to Firepower. While the album was completely written, he said that "we need to record it properly and everything like that. So it's not really anywhere near done. But when it's done, it's done." Halford indicated that it would not be released until 2023 or 2024, but later confirmed its release for 2024.

On 5 November 2022, Judas Priest were inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as they received the Musical Excellence Award. The other inductees included were former members K.K. Downing, Les Binks, and Dave Holland. The band performed a three song set with Downing and Binks on stage.

Before the band's performance at the Power Trip festival on 7 October 2023, they revealed their next album Invincible Shield, which was released on 8 March 2024. Its lead single "Panic Attack" was made available for streaming on 13 October. The album's second single "Trial by Fire" was released on 17 November 2023, followed in January 2024 by "Crown of Horns" and a month later by "The Serpent and the King".

In a February 2024 interview with Audio Ink Radio, Faulkner was asked if Judas Priest had "many more albums left" in them. His reply was, "I know personally, whenever we kind of put the writing sessions to bed and we finish the writing and everything, I always feel spent. I'm out of ideas. I've got nothing left, I've given everything to it. Where the hell am I gonna get more ideas from if we choose to do another record? But somehow they always, over the next couple of years, you start banking new riffs and melodies and stuff, and somehow you get a new ones. So you never know what the future holds."

Musical style
Judas Priest's style has always been rooted in heavy metal, and many of their albums reflect diverse aspects of the genre; for example, their debut album, Rocka Rolla (1974), is primarily rooted in heavy blues rock. From Sad Wings of Destiny (1976) through Stained Class (1978), the band's style was somewhat progressive, with complex guitar passages and poetic lyrics. Songs would often shift in dynamics and tempo, and the music was some of the heaviest of its day. This would later have a major influence on progressive metal and stoner rock bands. Sin After Sin (1977) used a combination of double bass drum (or "double kick") and rapid 16th-note bass rhythms combined with rapid 16th-note guitar rhythms used by Black Sabbath, Venom, and Motörhead that came to define the genre. While the double-bass rhythms used by Judas Priest are generally measured and technical, the song "Dissident Aggressor" (from Sin After Sin) pushed an increase in "tempo and aggression", which was later adopted by other bands with a much harder-edged approach.

Starting with their fifth album, Killing Machine (1978), the band began to incorporate a more commercial, radio-friendly style to their music. British Steel has been referred to as the "record that, more than any other, codified what we mean by heavy metal". The lyrics and music were simplified, and this style prevailed up to their seventh album, Point of Entry (1981). With their eighth album, Screaming for Vengeance (1982), the band incorporated a balance of these two styles. This continued on Defenders of the Faith (1984). With the follow-up album, Turbo (1986), the band incorporated guitar synthesizers into its signature heavy metal sound. On 1988's Ram It Down, the band retained some of the more commercial qualities of Turbo but also returned to some of the fast tempo heavy metal found on their earlier works. This fast-tempo style continued with 1990's Painkiller. Jugulator (1997) tried to incorporate some of the 1990s contemporary groove metal styles. Demolition (2001) has a more traditional heavy metal sound with nu metal elements. Following the return of Halford for Angel of Retribution and Nostradamus, the band returned to the style of its early albums.

The band's popularity and status as one of the exemplary and influential heavy metal bands has earned them the nickname "Metal Gods" from their song of the same name.

Vocal style and influences
Halford listened to and was influenced by Little Richard, Elvis Presley, Janis Joplin, and Robert Plant as a vocalist. He learned to push to the limits of his vocal abilities by their vocal demonstrations on record. He developed a powerful, operatic vocal style with an impressive range from lower throaty growls to ear-piercing high screams with strong vibrato. He was also a fan of Freddie Mercury, referring to him as his ultimate hero.

Media recognition and legacy
Judas Priest have influenced a great deal of metal music since the late 1970s. They were ranked by MTV as the second "Greatest Metal Band" of all time (after Black Sabbath), and VH1 named them the 78th greatest artist of all time in 2010. They were nominated for induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2018, but were passed over despite placing among the top 5 fan-voted nominees. In May 2022, it was announced that the band were to be among the 2022 inductee class for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

The band has sold over 50 million records so far, including 11 top 30 albums in the United Kingdom. In the United States, the band had eleven consecutive albums to be certified gold, platinum or higher by the RIAA, starting with 1977's Sin After Sin.

Several metal bands have named themselves after classic era Judas Priest songs and albums, including Sinner, Exciter, Running Wild, Steeler and Tyrant.

Judas Priest have been cited as both an influence and an inspiration to the thrash metal, speed metal and groove metal genres, including bands such as Annihilator, Anthrax, Exciter, Dark Angel, Death Angel, Destruction, Exodus, Flotsam and Jetsam, Heathen, Kreator, Megadeth, Metal Church, Metallica, Nuclear Assault, Onslaught, Overkill, Pantera, Possessed, Sacrifice, Sepultura, Slayer, Sodom, Testament, and Voivod.

Fashion
In addition to the sound, Judas Priest are also known for being revolutionary in heavy metal fashion. In the band's early years, they dressed in hippie-style 1970s outfits, but as the decade drew to a close, the rise of punk rock made this look outdated, so the band began wearing simplified wardrobes on their 1978 tour. For the 1979 tour, Halford adopted his now-trademark leather-and-studs look, inspired by punk fashion and leather culture. The rest of the band adopted a similar style which became prominent at the time of their 1978 release, Killing Machine. This style would go on to be adopted by many heavy metal bands in the early 1980s, especially those of the NWOBHM and early black metal movements. To this day, it is not uncommon to find metal artists and fans sporting such a look at concerts.

In a published quote on the back cover of K. K. Downing's autobiography Heavy Duty: Days and Nights in Judas Priest, Downing said that Judas Priest "had a bit of an identity crisis from the beginning. There was always a bit of a question mark about the band's look. To me, it never seemed to say anything—and in the earliest days of our career, I suppose I actually saw that as a good thing."

Downing claims that he was the one who came up with the band's black-leather look back when he first started in the music business. He explains, "I had this Heavy Metal attitude inside of me. I had it all of my life. When I got into Judas Priest I knew I had a band that had a great name. I knew we were a great band ... but something was not quite complete. The leather and studs image came along and it all started to complete itself. We had the album cover with the razor blade ... and Heavy Metal was born, mate. I was a youngster and it came to me. Around 1976 is when it happened. The band took to it and got on with it, really."

Though he adopted gay leather fetish wear for the band's look, Halford has stated that he "had no interest in S&M, domination or the whole queer subcult of leather and chains" because he is a vanilla gay man. He feels that fans of the era also did not suspect a homosexual or kink subtext in the leather-and-studs look. However, following Halford's coming out as gay, modern listeners often identify Judas Priest as having queer themes in their lyrics and fashion.

Band members
Current members
 * Ian Hill – bass, occasional backing vocals (1969–present)
 * Rob Halford – lead vocals (1973–1992, 2003–present)
 * Glenn Tipton – guitars, backing vocals, keyboards (1974–present)
 * Scott Travis – drums, occasional backing vocals (1989–present)
 * Richie Faulkner – guitars, backing vocals (2011–present)

Touring member
 * Andy Sneap – guitars, backing vocals (2018–2022, 2022–present)

 * Timeline

Discography
Studio albums
 * Rocka Rolla (1974)
 * Sad Wings of Destiny (1976)
 * Sin After Sin (1977)
 * Stained Class (1978)
 * Killing Machine (1978)
 * British Steel (1980)
 * Point of Entry (1981)
 * Screaming for Vengeance (1982)
 * Defenders of the Faith (1984)
 * Turbo (1986)
 * Ram It Down (1988)
 * Painkiller (1990)
 * Jugulator (1997)
 * Demolition (2001)
 * Angel of Retribution (2005)
 * Nostradamus (2008)
 * Redeemer of Souls (2014)
 * Firepower (2018)
 * Invincible Shield (2024)

Awards and nominations and critical reception
Despite their huge, loyal fanbase, Judas Priest have never been well received by much of the music press, partially because their late 1970s rise coincided with the punk rock and new wave movements, which occupied much of the music press's attention at the time. The first edition of The Rolling Stone Album Guide gave their first three albums one star each and described the band as "for lovers of stolen Led Zeppelin riffs only". The second edition of the guide a few years later also panned their entire discography. Village Voice critic Robert Christgau was notably disdainful of the band, refusing to outright review any of their albums and relegating them to his "Meltdown" list (referring to artists he did not consider having any material worth listening to). In 2018, they were nominated for entrance into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, but failed to get in, a move the band was critical of. They were however inducted into the Hall of Heavy Metal History at the Wacken festival in August 2018. Founder/CEO Pat Gesualdo thanked them "for the decades of hard work and dedication to heavy metal, an art form they helped establish." The band then stated that their induction "also sends a great message of inclusion for the metal community around the world, and keeps us defending the metal faith together." In May 2022, it was announced that the band were to be among the 2022 inductee class for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as the recipients of the committee selected "Award for Musical Excellence". Despite finally being inducted, many outlets, including MetalSucks and Loudwire, were critical of the band being inducted via "Award for Musical Excellence" rather than in the "Performer" category. Halford, after originally expressing excitement about the honor, shared this sentiment.

Classic Rock Roll of Honour Awards

 * 2005 || Judas Priest || The Metal Guru || Won
 * 2005 || Judas Priest || The Metal Guru || Won

Grammy Awards

 * 1991 || Painkiller || Best Metal Performance ||
 * 1999 || "Bullet Train" || Best Metal Performance ||
 * rowspan= "2" | 2009 || "Visions" || Best Hard Rock Performance ||
 * "Nostradamus" || Best Metal Performance ||
 * 2010 || "Dissident Aggressor" || Best Metal Performance || Won
 * rowspan= "2" | 2009 || "Visions" || Best Hard Rock Performance ||
 * "Nostradamus" || Best Metal Performance ||
 * 2010 || "Dissident Aggressor" || Best Metal Performance || Won
 * 2010 || "Dissident Aggressor" || Best Metal Performance || Won
 * 2010 || "Dissident Aggressor" || Best Metal Performance || Won

'''Kerrang! Awards'''

 * 2007 || Judas Priest || Hall of Fame || Won
 * 2015 || Judas Priest || Inspiration || Won
 * 2015 || Judas Priest || Inspiration || Won
 * 2015 || Judas Priest || Inspiration || Won

Loudwire Music Awards

 * rowspan="7"|2015 || Redeemer of Souls || Metal Album of the Year || Nominated
 * rowspan="2"|Judas Priest || Metal Band of the Year || Nominated
 * Live Act of the Year || Nominated
 * "Halls of Valhalla" || Metal Song of the Year || Nominated
 * rowspan="2"|Rob Halford || Rock Titan of the Year || Nominated
 * Vocalist of the Year || Nominated
 * Richie Faulkner || Guitarist of the Year || Nominated
 * 2017 || Rob Halford || Lemmy Lifetime Achievement Award || Won
 * rowspan="2"|Rob Halford || Rock Titan of the Year || Nominated
 * Vocalist of the Year || Nominated
 * Richie Faulkner || Guitarist of the Year || Nominated
 * 2017 || Rob Halford || Lemmy Lifetime Achievement Award || Won
 * Richie Faulkner || Guitarist of the Year || Nominated
 * 2017 || Rob Halford || Lemmy Lifetime Achievement Award || Won
 * 2017 || Rob Halford || Lemmy Lifetime Achievement Award || Won
 * 2017 || Rob Halford || Lemmy Lifetime Achievement Award || Won

Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards

 * 2005 || Angel of Retribution || Best Album || Won
 * 2005 || Angel of Retribution || Best Album || Won

 * 2011 || rowspan="2"| Judas Priest || Icons || Won
 * 2018 || Best British Band || Won
 * 2018 || Best British Band || Won
 * 2018 || Best British Band || Won

Metal Storm Awards

 * 2005 || Angel of Retribution || Best Heavy Metal Album || Won
 * 2008 || Nostradamus || Best Heavy Metal Album || Nominated
 * 2018 || Firepower || Biggest Surprise || Won
 * 2008 || Nostradamus || Best Heavy Metal Album || Nominated
 * 2018 || Firepower || Biggest Surprise || Won
 * 2018 || Firepower || Biggest Surprise || Won

Planet Rock Awards

 * 2019 || Firepower || Best British Album || Won
 * 2019 || Firepower || Best British Album || Won

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

 * 2018 || Judas Priest || Performers || Nominated
 * 2020 || Judas Priest || Performers || Nominated
 * 2022 || Judas Priest || Performers || Nominated
 * 2022 || Judas Priest || Award for Musical Excellence ||
 * 2022 || Judas Priest || Performers || Nominated
 * 2022 || Judas Priest || Award for Musical Excellence ||
 * 2022 || Judas Priest || Award for Musical Excellence ||
 * 2022 || Judas Priest || Award for Musical Excellence ||

Sweden GAFFA Awards

 * 2019 || Judas Priest || Best Foreign Band || Nominated
 * 2019 || Judas Priest || Best Foreign Band || Nominated

In popular culture
The American director Rob Reiner went to see Judas Priest in concert as part of his preparation for making the film This Is Spinal Tap (1984), which spoofs British heavy metal bands.

The drama-comedy film Rock Star (2001), starring Mark Wahlberg, is loosely based on the story of how Tim "Ripper" Owens replaced Rob Halford as the vocalist in Judas Priest.

On 5 January 2014, the band appeared in the episode "Steal This Episode" of comedy cartoon show The Simpsons playing a parody of their song "Breaking the Law". Their music was referred to as "death metal", for which the producers subsequently apologised by having Bart Simpson write "Judas Priest is not 'Death Metal in the opening sequence chalkboard gag.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Judas Priest


text: Talk:Music of Turkey

title: Talk:Music of Turkey


text:
Talk:River Severn

Length
How long is it? --zeno 03:42 Jan 14, 2003 (UTC)

 * Not only that, but where are we measuring from? Presumably there's an area at the top of the Bristol Channel where it becomes tidal, but where does the rather precise 354 km come from? — Trilobite (Talk) 14:06, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * The river is tidal up to the two weirs (Llanthony & Maisemore) at Gloucester.

I found a reference from the Environmental Agency | title= Frankwell Flood Alleviation Scheme, Shrewsbury| accessdate=2010-03-13| publisher= Environmental Agency that gave this figure. Michael Glass (talk) 23:28, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

Where does it end?
I notice neither this article nor Bristol Channel has any discussion of where one starts and the other ends or exactly what the relationship between the two is. Could someone add that? --87.82.12.159 01:32, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Well the formal end of the 'Gloucester Harbour' as administered by the Competent Harbour Authority (Gloucester Harbour Trustees), is just downstream of the 'Second Severn Crossing'. Bob aka Linuxlad 09:47, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

From what I've heard, the River Severn changes into the Severn estuary after the Second Severn Crossing, and then the Severn Estuary becomes the Bristol Channel between Lavernock Point in the Vale of Glamorgan and Sand Point in Somerset(? not sure of the county). User:Owain18

 * Correct. That's my understanding too. --TimTay (talk) 15:27, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

This section as currently written in the article seems to me to be rather confusing: "By convention, the River Severn is usually considered to end, and the Severn Estuary to begin, after the Second Severn Crossing, between Severn Beach in South Gloucestershire and Sudbrook, Monmouthshire. The total area of the Estuary's drainage basin is 4,409 square miles (11,419 km2). That figure excludes the area of the River Wye and the Bristol Avon, both of which flow into the Severn Estuary." 1) The River Wye joins the Severn upstream of this description of the river-estuary transition, which by that logic would mean it flows into the River Severn, not (directly) into the Severn Estuary. 2) Either way, as the Avon and the Wye are stated to flow (directly or indirectly) into the estuary, what is the logic for excluding the area of their drainage basins from the total given for the Severn Estuary? Surely either they should be included, or (preferably) the figure excluding them should be stated to be the draining of the River Severn, not that of the Severn Estuary? (Preferably, because it is, after all, the former that is the subject of this article, not the latter.) 3) And as a more minor point, if the SSC is taken as the river-estuary demarcation point, wouldn't "at" be better than "after" in the first sentence? JA 1961 (talk) 17:11, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Huh?
The largest amount of the river goes through a town called Moorings

What does this mean? I've never heard of Moorings, but presumably if the largest part of the river passes through it it must be on the estuary. Can someone clarify this or reword it before I delete it? Graham 14:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Well I live about 5 miles away from the two road bridges, and have run or walked most of the river bank from Gloucester to Avonmouth. I think I might have spotted a _town_ called Moorings (as distinct from a few poles in the mud for mooring barges)Linuxlad 22:48, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

 * So are you agreeing with me that no such place exists? Or if it does, further upstream, then the other part of the statement must be false. Either way it sounds like nonsense in its current form. Graham 13:19, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Locks on the River Severn
Should there not be a page on the navigation locks on the River Severn? Come to think about it there is only an entry on canal locks and no reference to the fact that locks are also found on several rivers in the UK and many others throughout the world. DonBarton

Tidal bore
A tidal bore is not a solitary wave - the wikipedia article on tidal bores does not make this mistake. I have corrected this, but just wanted to make it clear. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kiwimhm (talk • contribs) 23:48, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Removed from tidal bore
The following text was removed from the tidal bore section. It seems to go off in an unrelated tangent. David D. (Talk) 02:09, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * "The canal was built in the 1820s to enable safer passage of trading ships to Gloucester. Just North of the Port are the remains of the Severn Railway Bridge, which bridged the river until it was badly damaged in a ship collision in 1960. Between Purton and Sharpness is an area known as The Ships' Graveyard, where many disused barges were scuttled along the bank to reduce erosion, which was threatening to destroy the banks of the canal. Several of these barges have 'concrete' sides and were intended for use in World War 2; there have been plans to restore some of them, as of historical interest."

Origin of "Hafren"
Could "Hafren" (Old Welsh "Habren") be derived from a Celtic term meaning "wide estuary"? In modern Welsh this would be "aber eang". Therefore Aber-eang(or similar)>Abereng>Abren>Habren? After all, the estuary is an obvious feature of the river, being one of the largest in Britain. Any comments/references? ML 24.11.06.

Edit tags
I cannot see why the edit tags from the Transport section appear together after the third image. Finavon 21:04, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Tidal Power
I've put a couple of "citation needed" tags in the Tidal Power section. There seems to be a POV being expressed there. Rojomoke 12:20, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Coordinates for source
Could someone provide coordinates for the source, please? Andy Mabbett | Talk to Andy Mabbett 11:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Tim P (talk) 20:05, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Tidal range
I have just reverted an edit which changed the Severn from second to third highest tidal range in the world. To support this I removed one of the two BBC references and added one from the environment agency. If the original editor doubts the reliability of the BBC then there are more that I could add from trusted sources such as WWF, FOE etc. which support the claim that the Severn has the second highest tidal range in the world. --Cheesy Mike 08:18, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Tidal range II
The assertion that the Severn has the second largest tidal range in the world is inconsistent with other Wikipedia articles: Ungava_Bay Bay_of_Fundy

Perhaps these need to be updated, although I'm pretty sure that the Canadian Hydrographic Service is a more reliable source than the WWF. Where is the chain of citation with WWF or the BBC?

Feel free to correct either way, but as it stands, the encyclopedia is internally inconsistent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.9.237.22 (talk) 11:20, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I have added text re Ungava Bay, the tidal range in which according to this reference is recorded as exceeding that of the Severn. NOAA is a reliable source - more so perhaps than the BBC which will have sourced its information from elsewhere. cheers Geopersona (talk) 07:07, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Spring Tide
This sentence seems suspicious to me: "The largest bores occur in spring, but smaller ones can be seen throughout the year." The situation which happens if Sun, Moon and Earth are aligned, causing a larger tide, is called Spring Tide. The name "spring tide" does not have anything in common with the spring season. Could this sentence be a result of someone misunderstanding what "spring tide" means and assuming that the biggest tides happen in spring? I don't know of any reason why tides in spring should be bigger than those in summer, fall or winter. Matushorvath (talk) 02:11, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

what can i see/find on this map?
can everybody tell me, what show us this map: about the severn and where it's on it?? i can find all other things there, but not the severn! Dontworry (talk) 10:10, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The dark blue line between Newtown & The Bristol Channel is the River Severn.-- Badgernet    Talk  10:22, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I see what you mean. The map is quite confusing and it isn't immediately obvious that the river is the darker blue line. Could be improved greatly. I suggest a request to the map's author ChrisJB (talk) might be a good idea as he could produce a new version from his original source diagram. --TimTay (talk) 10:26, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * that's nice, but why is it a "no-name-river" on this map? ;-) so many names on it - but nowhere "severn"! Dontworry (talk) 10:35, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * WP:BOLD - go fix it yourself or contact the originator of the image. Only he can answer your questions. --TimTay (talk) 10:46, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It is an awful map. Maybe I'll try and make a better, simpler one. It doesn't need all the towns and tributaries - just a high-ratio map of SW Britain with the main channel and major tributaries and maybe Bristol Gloucester, Warwick, Shrewsbury and one or two others. 82.69.77.254 (talk) 09:16, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Well, it's been what, a year now? Still don't see a new version. Clearly it wasn't so 'awful' after all. 82.36.124.13 (talk) 00:22, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Now, some tenmonths later, it is still ... awful. Just because it hasn't been fixed doesn't mean it's okeh.  It needs to be replaced with an easily readable map. Kdammers (talk) 11:10, 17 September 2010 (UTC)
 * If it's that bad (I don't think it's that bad, though it certainly could do with improving), why doesn't someone put in a request at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Maps? Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:19, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Seahorse
The article describes the river deity as riding a seahorse (no illustration provded). Is this the actual marine seahorse, or the mythological hippocamp? The latter seems more likely, but I can't find a definitive answer. There's a note with this query in the text, too.
 * --Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 20:25, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

River cruises
Could somebody with  local knowledge please update the information that is either conjecture, hope, or details that  are likely  to change? --Kudpung (talk) 11:59, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Bristol
Just a question .. can you really argue that the Severn runs through Bristol? The Avon definitely does - and Avonmouth is on the Severn - but the Severn is miles from the city centre. Beantrees (talk) 15:07, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

 * No. We might do this with a very broad interpretation of "through" that meant "through, or on the banks of" (the 20th century Port of Bristol is indeed directly on the Severn at Avonmouth, not the Avon) but even that's inconsistent. Why not thus include Newport or Cardiff as well? If we exclude those two for being "on the estuary" rather than "on the river", why not exclude Bristol similarly? The usual boundary is the second crossing, which is upstream of all three. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:32, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

 * How about Chepstow? More major than Lydney, pretty close to the Severn, Severn shipping was historically important to Chepstow and it's above the bridges. Maybe even Sharpness - there's not much to say about Sharpness, but what there is is related to the Severn. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:36, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Distance from the 'furthest point from the sea'
The article on Coton in the Elms in Derbyshire quotes the BBC quoting the Ordnance Survey that, it is the furthest point from the sea in Great Britain, at 113 km. This triangulates and equates to circa Westbury-on-Severn. Does anyone know why the Ordnance Survey consider this (or some more precise locale) to be the 'start of the sea'? ... And is there a reference? Regards Chienlit (talk) 12:21, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Measurements
At the moment, measurements in the articles are mostly metric first, except for three instances (all without citations) where miles are used. As this article is used for Wikipedia for Schools should it be consistently metric first? Michael Glass (talk) 00:34, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Fire?
My environmental science textbook mentions that in 2000 a large toxic fire took place in the flood plain during a large storm, due to buried toxic chemicals. then the area flooded a few days later. This seems fairly noteworthy, and the picture of the fireball in my book is impressive. yet I see nothing here, nor on severn river disasters, and i can't find a link for a severn flood plain (since this didn't actually occur on the river per se). Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.234.207.237 (talk) 23:06, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

 * Two fires with Albright and Wilson (later Rhodia) at Avonmouth in the late 90s, lots of phosphorus spread over the surroundings. Then a tritium incident at another plant some years later. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:04, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

History of the Severn
There is no mention of the geographical history of this river? The Severn did not only flow south, there were two courses one went North and drained out through the present-day River Dee, Wales. It was not until the end of the last ice age that the the retreating ice left large amounts of glacial material between blocking the natural course north to Chester. The remnants of this great river are the meres that are in North Shropshire. It is mentioned here and here (but this too tecnical for me). The geology of how this river formed is a key component of an encyclopaedic entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.155.66.115 (talk) 00:51, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Disasters on the Severn
I have removed the contentious statement that said that since there had been many disasters on the river it was Britain's most dangerous river. Apart from the whole being unsourced, the latter does not necessarily flow from the former (excuse the puns). There are undoubtedly hazards associated with it, but that doesn't mean it is any more or less dangerous than anyt comparable watercourse. Geopersona (talk) 06:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Insulting page alert!
You are saying that England and Wales are "parts"/states/regions. That is very insulting to any Welsh readers (or maybe English readers), as it is damaging their different cultures. The UK is a "supercountry". I know Hawaii has a different culture from the US, but Hawaii has never been an indepent country. England, Wales, and Scotland have. Velo ciraptor  888  15:38, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * You better start reading first, my friend. You can find information about the Kingdom of Hawaii here. Night of the Big Wind  talk  15:59, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh. Velo  ciraptor  888  15:01, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The problem - so far as the infobox is concerned - lies with the terminology used at Template:Geobox/legend, where there is a field "Country" - for sovereign state - and a field "State" - meaning part of a country, such as a US state. The "State" field can be customised, and in this article was customised to read "Part".  So far as Velociraptor888 is concerned, I guess the issue is that the infobox should refer to Wales and England as countries - which they are, per multiple discussions all over WP.  Using the term "Part", meaning England and Wales, is pretty much deprecated on WP.  But, it would look very odd if the info box said: "Country: United Kingdom.  Countries: Wales, England".  So, I've done a quick and dirty adjustment, to make it read as "United Kingdom (Wales, England)" - which is the best solution I can come up with.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:29, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * That quick fix looks fine to me. Even though I think we'd all agree that England and Wales are indeed both "parts of the UK". In Regions, I see we have Mid Wales. But does the course of the river beside Monmouthsire mean that South Wales should also be added? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:45, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Well, that part is the Severn estuary - which I think is generally regarded as distinct from the River Severn. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:52, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
 * In terms of an Aust/Chepstow boundary line definition that's perfectly correct. Even if we used the Second Severn Crossing as the river/ estuary boundary (an alternative suggested in the Estuary article), that still leaves only a tiny strech of South Wales "river coast". Martinevans123 (talk) 15:50, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Opening sentence
"The River Severn (Welsh: Afon Hafren, Latin: Sabrina) is the longest river in the United Kingdom, at about 354 kilometres (220 mi),[3][4] and the second longest in Britain and Ireland, behind the River Shannon." I first thought this sentence had confused "United Kingdom" with "Britain" when making statements about the Severn being the longest river. It can't be the #1 longest in the UK if it's only #2 longest in Britain. But it seems that this sentence is grouping Britain+Ireland, which I think is needlessly confusing. Perhaps these 2 names can be replaced with "the British Isles" for slight clarity. ZomgPancakes (talk) 17:42, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
 * This has arisen because of this edit on 28 February, which was unexplained. The current wording is confusing, and I'll return it to the previous longstanding (and, to most readers, less confusing) version.  But obviously the term "British Isles" can be problematic, and an alternative might be to link the words Britain and Ireland to the right article.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:54, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

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Route Map
Bit puzzled why the route map starts at Bewdley - is this because it's the navigable section, in which case maybe the legend should be "Navigable River Severn"? Or is it because the Hafren is being regarded as a separate river, which would be odd given that Afon Hafren redirects here. I ask because for example the Thames route map shows the whole length of the river from source to mouth. Jamesinderbyshire (talk) 07:34, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

pls you guys
I am using 4 hw where is the sea it flows into?? CherryLS (talk) 16:28, 28 September 2023 (UTC)

 * This isn't the place for that sort of question - you're better off asking at the WP:REFERENCE_DESK. WaggersTALK  12:16, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Waggers ok well I found it so yeah CherryLS (talk) 15:21, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:River Severn


text:
Common year starting on Monday

A common year starting on Monday is any non-leap year (i.e., a year with 365 days) that begins on Monday, 1 January, and ends on Monday, 31 December. Its dominical letter hence is G. The most recent year of such kind was 2018 and the next one will be 2029 in the Gregorian calendar, or likewise, 2019 and 2030 in the Julian calendar, see below for more. This common year is one of the three possible common years in which a century year can begin on and occurs in century years that yield a remainder of 300 when divided by 400. The most recent such year was 1900 and the next one will be 2300.

Any common year that starts on Monday has two Friday the 13ths: those two in this common year occur in April and July. From July of the year in this type of year to September in the year that follows this type of year is the longest period that occurs without a Friday the 13th, unless the following year is a leap year starting on Tuesday, in which case the gap is reduced to just 11 months, as the next Friday the 13th is already in June. From July of the year preceding this type of year to September in this type of year is the longest period that occurs without a Lucky Monday, in other words the 3rd day of the month being on a Monday (14 months). Leap years starting on Friday share this characteristic, from August of the common year preceding it to October of this type of year.

Gregorian calendar
In the (currently used) Gregorian calendar, along with Sunday, Wednesday, Friday or Saturday, the fourteen types of year (seven common, seven leap) repeat in a 400-year cycle (20871 weeks). Forty-three common years per cycle or exactly 10.75% start on a Monday. The 28-year sub-cycle only spans across century years divisible by 400, e.g. 1600, 2000, and 2400.

Julian calendar
In the Julian calendar, the fourteen types of year (seven common, seven leap) repeat in a 28-year cycle (1461 weeks). This sequence occurs exactly once within a cycle, and every common letter thrice.

As the Julian calendar repeats after 28 years that means it will also repeat after 700 years, i.e. 25 cycles. The year's position in the cycle is given by the formula ((year + 8) mod 28) + 1). Years 6, 12 and 23 of the cycle are common years beginning on Monday. 2017 is year 10 of the cycle. Approximately 10.71% of all years are common years beginning on Monday.

International

 * Valentine's Day falls on a Wednesday
 * World Day for Grandparents and the Elderly falls on its earliest possible date, July 22
 * Halloween falls on a Wednesday
 * Christmas Day falls on a Tuesday

Roman Catholic Solemnities

 * Epiphany falls on a Saturday
 * Candlemas falls on a Friday
 * Saint Joseph's Day falls on a Monday
 * The Annunciation of Jesus falls on a Sunday
 * The Nativity of John the Baptist falls on a Sunday
 * The Solemnity of Saints Peter and Paul falls on a Friday
 * The Transfiguration of Jesus falls on a Monday
 * The Assumption of Mary falls on a Wednesday
 * The Exaltation of the Holy Cross falls on a Friday
 * All Saints' Day falls on a Thursday
 * All Souls' Day falls on a Friday
 * The Feast of Christ the King falls on November 25 (or on October 28 in versions of the calendar between 1925 and 1962)
 * The First Sunday of Advent falls on December 2
 * The Immaculate Conception falls on a Saturday
 * Gaudete Sunday falls on December 16
 * Rorate Sunday falls on December 23

Australia and New Zealand

 * Australia Day falls on a Friday
 * Waitangi Day falls on a Tuesday
 * Daylight saving ends on its earliest possible date, April 1
 * ANZAC Day falls on a Wednesday
 * Mother's Day falls on May 13
 * Father's Day falls on September 2
 * Daylight saving begins on its latest possible date, September 30 in New Zealand and October 7 in Australia – this is the only common year where the period of standard time over the winter months lasts 26 weeks in New Zealand and 27 weeks in Australia (in all other common years, it lasts only 25 weeks in New Zealand and 26 weeks in Australia)

British Isles

 * Saint David's Day falls on a Thursday
 * Mother's Day falls on March 4, March 11, March 18, March 25 or April 1
 * Saint Patrick's Day falls on a Saturday
 * Daylight saving begins on its earliest possible date, March 25. This is the only year when First Sunday of Advent of the year preceding this type of year and start of daylight saving time are 16 weeks (112 days) apart, they are 17 weeks (119 days) apart in all other years.
 * Saint George's Day falls on a Monday
 * Father's Day falls on June 17
 * Orangeman's Day falls on a Thursday
 * Daylight saving ends on October 28
 * Guy Fawkes Night falls on a Monday
 * Saint Andrew's Day falls on a Friday

Canada

 * Daylight saving begins on March 11
 * Mother's Day falls on May 13
 * Victoria Day falls on May 21
 * Father's Day falls on June 17
 * Canada Day falls on a Sunday
 * Labour Day falls on September 3
 * Thanksgiving Day falls on its earliest possible date, October 8
 * Daylight saving ends on November 4

United States

 * Martin Luther King Jr. Day falls on its earliest possible date, January 15
 * President's Day falls on February 19
 * Daylight saving begins on March 11
 * Mother's Day falls on May 13
 * Memorial Day falls on May 28
 * Father's Day falls on June 17
 * Juneteenth falls on a Tuesday
 * Independence Day falls on a Wednesday
 * Labor Day falls on September 3
 * Grandparents' Day falls on September 9
 * Columbus Day falls on its earliest possible date, October 8
 * Daylight saving ends on November 4
 * Thanksgiving Day falls on its earliest possible date, November 22

title: Common year starting on Monday


text:
Talk:Japanese name

parallels …

 * Male names often end in "son" (郎), but also "clear, bright" (朗)

This looks funny, with one translation in parens and the other not; I'd make it –rō (郎 "son", but also 朗 "clear, bright"). I don't know how to make that nice with the language template. —Tamfang (talk) 03:37, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

 * idk if there's a mark as resolved button (??) but i fixed this 👍 Warpedtour08 (talk) 19:32, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
 * —Tamfang (talk) 04:48, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Name order when using the Roman or English alphabet
At present the article lead had:
 * Nevertheless, when a Japanese name is written in the Roman alphabet, ever since the Meiji era, the official policy has been to reverse the order., the government has stated its intention to change this policy.

There are so many issues in that section that it seemed the only way to improve the article was to remove the text from the article.
 * No sources are cited for what is claimed to be an official government policy.
 * The 2019 Reuters article that is cited says "But beginning in the late 19th century, Japanese began adopting the Western custom of putting the given name first and family name second, at least when writing their names in English." That makes in seem like a practice adopted by individuals, likely when corresponding with westerners, to reduce confusion. The Reuters article never mentions that the name order was "policy." The article is about a suggestion by a government minister to use the traditional Japanese name order. Other ministers agreed to study the issue.

I thought about adding text to the article that when using Roman alphabet that some people follow the Japanese practice of writing the surname followed by the given name and others use the western practice of given name followed by the surname. I likely could have used the existing Reuters article though that one has weak support for that both versions of the naming order are in use. --Marc Kupper|talk 18:41, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

 * I seem to remember reading that Abe Shinzo requested that foreign media stop turning names around. —Tamfang (talk) 05:24, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Update: I looked at the talk page archives and discovered that the 2019 suggestions were likely triggered by the then upcoming 2020 Summer Olympics to be held in Tokyo, Japan. More specifically, it was about showing Japanese names on electronic displays and TV broadcasts. Talk:Japanese name/Archive 2 has details but unfortunately I did not see anything that could be usefully added to the Wikipedia article in terms of how to write out names using the Roman alphabet. --Marc Kupper|talk 19:03, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

子 history

 * While some people may still believe this, Lafcadio Hearn, in Shadowings, makes it clear that at least in his time (1880 to 1905, the date of publication), the ending -ko (子) was not any part of the name, but an honorific suffix like -san (さん).

The while clause is puzzling. If it means "this" is a misconception, what is "this"? The preceding paragraph provides no obvious candidate. My best guess is that "this" is what we are about to learn from Hearn (no wordplay intended), in which case while is inappropriate; I'd omit the preamble, or restructure the sentence thus:

 * Lafcadio Hearn, in Shadowings, makes it clear that at least in his time (1880 to 1905, the date of publication) the ending -ko (子) was not any part of the name, but an honorific suffix like -san (さん); and some people may still believe this.

But perhaps there is another explanation. —Tamfang (talk) 05:22, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Japanese name


text:
Talk:Bugsy Siegel

Last name was never Siegelbaum
His family's census records from 1910 list the family name as "Siegel," as corroborated by Larry Gragg's recent book. Benjamin Siegelbaum was an entirely different person who Meyer Lansky worked with in Miami in the 40's and 50's, after Bugsy's death. He is discussed in some detail by Lacey in Little Man, and presumably the insistence on "Siegelbaum" being Bugsy's last name comes from conflating the two figures, but the fact remains that it was never Bugsy's last name. The only things that claim it was are internet articles which cite other internet articles (or which cite no sources at all), and none can conclusively point to an original source for his last name originally being Siegelbaum. Crimsonrain158 (talk) 11:38, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Actually, Crimsonrain158, it was his last name, several sources (including documentaries (with tons of experts), books, and websites) have stated it was his last name. Donovan Ellis (talk) 23:58, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

 * Donovan Ellis you have not provided any reliable sources that verify this. In the citation I provided—and that you deleted—Gragg cites a United State Census record from 1910, four years after Siegel was born, that lists his family's name as "Siegel." The citations listed on your edits to Siegel's last name include: a link to a youtube video (which has since been removed from youtube), an IMDB page and Find-A-Grave page (both of which are composed of user-generated content), and a PBS page which does not cite the information it contains to any verifiable source. No published historian has corroborated your claims. The contention that Siegel's last name was ever "Siegelbaum" (or that his middle name was "Hymen") is dubious at best, and the sites you have cited to back up your claim fall well within Wikipedia's definition of unreliable sources. --Crimsonrain158 (talk) 00:43, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

- Just wanted to help out here, Siegel is a variation of several Germanic surnames from Austria and surrounding areas such as the Siegelwachs. I was told Meyer's family were the Prussian side but they were closer to the Sharps line from Poland iirc. Also they were cousins to the Seagrim family, the liquor company, and it was where they got booze in from Canada during prohibition. That was through Rose Fuch, but she was a gossip so you never know, who set that up with the Purple from my understanding and was related to Harry (surname) who worked with Benjamin Siegel. Finally they may be related to the Weintraub family who were early Zionist that settled before it was the "State of" Israel and who became Israeli heroes for their acts. They have a monument outside the Jerusalem Municipal Court house and as an aside the entire family is close to the Bedouin family that helps the Kibbutz that makes the Judicah from Tree of Life; however they aren't related to anyone on that Kibbutz. Instead they started the Moshav that became the city of Ramat Gan and to this day there is an orange Grove with trees planted for the families of the originating members of the Moshav.

They changed the surname to Siegel at immigration because they spoke Yiddish and good old fashion bigotry. His Hebrew name was Hyman not Dov or whatever (trying to locate the Jewish News paper where he made a donation and they used that name, not sure where Dov comes from), but there has been a legitimate change to obfuscatile this much like Immigration changing the last name from Siegelbaum. They Yarzheit Plate matches a grave for someone who died twenty years later and was burried in NJ. It started about the same time as the vandalism regarding the last name did.

Anyway I don't think the actual Siegelbaums or any other branch of Siegels are the ones making these edits. At least not the Siegelbaum who used to live in LA. Benjamin's family did create immigration papers for refugees so they shared their name and history with a lot of people in order to save them from Hitler as well as just in general before then, that mixed with almost no documentation has caused this mess.

Here is the census but I think it is already in the original article showing they were Austrian not German and -Baum dis districtly the German not Austrian variation.

https://www.census.gov/history/pdf/bugsysiegel1920.pdf

You also may want to comb through the Jewish News in Phoenix and San Diego from when he was alive. Benjamin donated a lot and his family in Phoenix used to republish articles from the San Diego Jewish papers over there too. I don't think the Chicago branch did. Not really sure what went on between the Chicago side and the rest of the family they only made it to Passover once way back when.

I didn't want to make this more of a mess so I figured I'd post this as a talk and let Wiki-Admins sort it out. The documentation is out there but historians will need to now look past a layer of more recent, like a decade or so, of information to get back to something not fraudulent. Check publishing dates and copyrights on websites and you'll see what I mean. Most the stuff has been re-dated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7000:4600:358A:ED1C:F660:AB2:47CE (talk) 07:58, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

- Just an update, the death records linked to Max Siegel in the Wikipedia article has his birthdate as the 26th of Elul 5639 or 14th September 1879 but there was no one of that age in Castle Garden or Ellis Island record who mograted before the census dates/birthdate for Benjamin Siegel: https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/passenger-result - This is just a reiteration of how terrible records were and again the forced surname change made it harder. I found a migration certificate but it is behind a pay wall. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:7000:4600:358A:ED1C:F660:AB2:47CE (talk) 13:21, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

- Cleaned up Talk and found source on Siegelwach and Sigel surname alterations at immigration, still trying to locate Siegelbaum records from Austria. Contacted Austrian Rabbinate.

Ethnicity
I would like to verify that Siegel's ethnicity was Jewish and he was a Jewish American mobster which is proven and the fact that people are saying that being a Jew is not an ethnicity (when in fact its a ethnoreligious group). I'm just stating this in the talk page because recently two or three users are trying to say Jewish American is not needed in the opening paragraph and that being a Jew is not an ethnicity.--Donovan Ellis (talk) 03:09, 30 September 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree that Siegel was ethnically Jewish, and that the fact that he was a Jewish American mobster is relevant enough to his notability to be included in the opening paragraph under the MOS guidelines cited in the most recent removal of the term; his ethnicity is notable in that he was operating within the structure of the Mafia as a Jewish mobster, not an Italian one. If we're going to say Siegel's ethnicity isn't important enough to be mentioned in the opening paragraph, then "Sicilian-born", "Italian-American", and "Italian-born" aren't important enough to be included in the opening paragraphs of Luciano, Costello, and Genovese's respective articles either, and yet there's no debate on their respective pages about leaving those ethnic designations. Crimsonrain158 (talk) 07:34, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

And this whole Khazar thing and Siegel not being Jewish is stupid. Every historian, birth record, and every user that has editedthis page and other Jewish American and Italian American mobsters will agree that it is stupid too. Whoever this person is that is reverting it needs to stop. And this whole "worshiping-sicko/rapist" crap needs to stop, maybe you can make a time machine and recreate history to where SIegel was born during the Khazar's time, but until then stop.--Donovan Ellis (talk) 17:42, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

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Bug-eyed ?
64.175.40.235 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:08, 8 January 2018 (UTC)
 * https://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f237/678470d1459598160-mobster-benjamin-bugsy-siegel-crime-scene-autopsy-photos-fro378fb0_profimedia_0014911218.jpg
 * https://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f237/678471d1459598191-mobster-benjamin-bugsy-siegel-crime-scene-autopsy-photos-tumblr_n2uuay42ka1s7e5k5o1_500.jpg
 * https://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f237/678472d1459598215-mobster-benjamin-bugsy-siegel-crime-scene-autopsy-photos-8016586771_c1bfc78632_z.jpg
 * https://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f237/678473d1459598219-mobster-benjamin-bugsy-siegel-crime-scene-autopsy-photos-8016623283_65b5fe984d_z.jpg
 * https://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f237/678474d1459598237-mobster-benjamin-bugsy-siegel-crime-scene-autopsy-photos-cf0f2a934c578780ba503b5623820416.jpg
 * https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/unsolvedmysteries/images/7/74/Bugsy_siegel1.jpg
 * http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2016/02/GettyImages-97257720.jpg

Once upon a Time in America
The movie Once upon a Time in America has a character named Bugsy. Is that character based on the subject of this article?50.43.163.127 (talk) 19:13, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

 * I’ve looked into this, and it seems very likely. I admit I never watched the movie, but here’s what I learned from a bit of research between this article and the movie’s article. (Spoiler below, of course.) Movie Bugsy is a Jewish gang boss who has young Jewish boys committing petty crimes for him on Manhattan’s Lower East Side; I’m not sure how old he’s supposed to be, but the actor was about 30 at the time. He dies in 1918 in the movie. The real man, who I’ll refer to as Siegel, was born in Brooklyn in 1906, and joined a gang on the Lower East Side in Manhattan as a boy. He committed petty crimes until he met Moe Segway and started an (extortion) protection racket for pushcart vendors. As a teenager, Siegel became instrumental in what became known as the Bugs and Meyer Mob; From there, the Mob expanded, grew in influence, and Siegel’s criminal career expanded outside of New York. I think it’s pretty safe to say that, between misunderstandings and generalizations surrounding his early life, and alterations to fit the plot, our Movie Bugsy might be the same as Siegel - in a world where his gang is not so successful, and he’s killed by a young boy.
 * I’ll add the reference in the “Media Portrayals” section, but I’ll be careful about the wording. I’d like it best if someone who watched the movie could comment on this. 8"mrk"7 (talk) 16:02, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bugsy Siegel