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Talk:David Irving

Could this be more professional?
Obviously this man isn't a very good person and that's a fact that this article needs to express. However, the entire opening section reads like someone's angry diatribe about an ex friend or lover. The problem with this method of presenting information is that the site looks heavily biased and deceptive to younger readers who will see the bias in the article and believe the very conspiracies the man professed because the man can easily be seen as a victim of a smear campaign. Even the page on Adolf Hitler is less aggressively negative but that could be due to the overwhelming support for eugenics and the eugenics movement by many editors on this site(look how whitewashed the article on Cold Springs Harbor Laboratory or the Indian Health Service).

If you know anything about Russian propaganda and pseudo-rightwing people on the internet, then you know that nothing fuels their conspiracies like the perceived victimization of their own kind. Whoever wrote the introduction to this article has greatly helped the neo-nazi cause. Nothing solidifies support in bad causes like the perception of victimization of the people involved. That's what Hitler did to rise to power and whoever wrote much of this article is helping the neo-nazi cause. Be professional when dealing with controversial topics since the wrong words can send the wrong message. The causes of men like him are fueled by the over-active censorship and mudslinging. 2604:2D80:6305:600:1595:C94D:DC4:424E (talk) 17:37, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Do you have any concrete suggestions? Pure rants do not help. --Hob Gadling (talk) 17:52, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
 * I have just read this article and agree it is rather messy and could be improved. I am quite new to this stuff but suggest that the lead is too long, literally for a start. I might have a go, but will wait to see if anyone else agrees/disagrees. Charlie Campbell 28 (talk) 23:21, 12 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The lead is not longer than it should be. What would you delete from it? --Hob Gadling (talk) 11:04, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Hi @Hob Gadling. Thanks for the comment. I'd restructure it to two paragraphs. I would edit down the wordage describing reasons for the subjects present low standing. I'd slightly recontextualise, too. The subject has never been regarded as a serious scholar. He has no qualifications or training as a historian, apparently. His personal history is one of obsession and marginal relevance; more like an amateur historian who dug up a few interesting minor points through doggedness. The Lipstadt trial is what made him well-known for a while, and that concluded that he is a minor figure notable only because of the marginality, and offensiveness, of his views. The way the lead is structured, with too much blow-by-blow, makes him look far more significant than he is. IMHO only, of course. But I think I can stand it up enough to reduce the lead. As I also said, that the lead needs fixed is really only the start - actually, it should be the end and come after a re-working of the whole article. The article is very flabby, in my opinion. At points, I think its value is slightly affected by a lack of WP:NPOV in its general thrust. It seems written to encourage the reader to dislike the subject, rather written to allow the reader to draw their own (obvious, in my opinion) views. The subject is a minor, jobbing, non-scholarly author whose preparedness to voice extreme right-wing sentiment relatively late in the century made him a figure of minor note for a while. That doesn't justify listing and critiquing his un-notable works at length as if he were an important author. Again, all my opinion only. Charlie Campbell 28 (talk) 17:32, 13 January 2024 (UTC)
 * True, this article needs more citation and be subjective. ThomasFrancis12 (talk) 04:18, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
 * This article has over 200 citations. From a bulk quantity perspective it doesn't "need more". What specifically would you change/better cite? VQuakr (talk) 17:50, 18 April 2024 (UTC)

Years active edit
A user changed David's 'years active' from '1962-present' to '1962-2024' because of his supposed death. I can't edit the article since it's protected so I thought I'd mention it here so someone else can change it.

2603:6011:9D3C:19:84FF:644:D1E9:54C2 (talk) 06:07, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

 * We should wait until there is a reliable source for it; I haven't seen one yet. — BillC talk 08:27, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I've just reverted this change, as there remain no reliable sources stating that Irving has died. If this is true, I imagine that they will be published soon. Nick-D (talk) 08:32, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

He may not be dead but I think it's accurate to say he's no longer active (as a writer etc) as of 2023 as the family's statement says "It is with sadness that we must accept that David is now unable to engage in his life’s work". Wellington Bay (talk) 15:13, 24 February 2024 (UTC)

Date of order for extermination of Jews.
The statement that Hitler still advocated only the expulsion of the European Jews in December 1941 and only changed his mind to order the extermination of the Jews in 1942 is historically inaccurate and should be removed from an edited version of the text. I suggest that the following be inserted in the text as a replacement: "On July 31,1941, Hitler's deputy Fuhrer, Hermann Goering, signed an order authorizing Reinhard Heydrich, head of the the Reich's General Security Office (SD) to prepare a plan for the final solution" and "total solution" to the "Jewish Question." At a conference at a government-confiscated mansion in on Lake Wannsee January 1942, Heydrich. citing the Goering order of July 31 1941 as his authoritzation presided over a meeting of government officials from several departments of the Reich in which detailed plans were drawn up for the extermination of European Jewry, and tasks were assigned to several departments of the Reich to assist in achieving this objective. According to an entry in the Diary of Joseph Goebels, minister of enlightenment and propaganda,Hitler presided over a meeting of senior Nazi Party officials in which he announced that he had ordered the extermination of European Jews. This indicates that the Goering order of July 31, 1941 and the subsequent conference at Wannsee in January 1942 had Hitler's full approval." 2603:7000:CF00:1202:28FD:F1E1:5F4E:12BA (talk) 14:29, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

Hitler's possible motives for not signing the July 31 "final solution" order and instead apparently delegating this task to his deputy Goering.
This following addition-revision of the text should be added after my previous suggested edit of the text concerning the date of Hitler's decision to authorize a "total solution" of the Jewish question. "No historian of any repute professes to know why hitler delegated the signing of the "final solution" and "total solution" order to his deputy Goering rather than signing it himself. We sugtgest that perhaps Hitler realized the criminal nature of the order, and felt more comfortable ordering his deputy to sign the order rather than doing so himself. 2603:7000:CF00:1202:28FD:F1E1:5F4E:12BA (talk) 14:57, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:David Irving


text:
Talk:Baltic states/Baltic Republics

Were the Balkan Republics really treated as independent nations? I mean, Ukraine and Belorussia had seats in the UN, even when part of the USSR, but the Balkans didn't. -- Zoe
 * I think you mean Baltic ;) Thanx 68.39.174.150 03:58, 15 May 2005 (UTC)
 * No, that sentece means that de iure US and western Europe didn`t recognise those countries as part of USSR.

The term "Pribaltika" is still correct and valid Russian word (Прибалтика), regardless of Soviet period. 84.245.217.181 22:53, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Why does the image in this page represent the Baltic Sea? The Baltic Republics are not even visible in this map!

I think it is better to find and display some political map of the area.

Ptoniolo 11:04, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

POV
Thats an interesting article, seems to be some kind of POV fork for Baltic States. It should be merged with Baltic states where it can be mentioned that during the Soviet occupation the Baltic states were referred to as "Pribaltica" by Soviet folklore. otherwise the "Republics" were nothing more than administrative divisions of the unitarian, totalitarian USSR. --Termer 15:13, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

 * It can also be preceived that article's scope is only thes Soviet era and it is about Region of USSR. Anyway it was already discussed on Talk:Baltic states, nothing was done in the end. Xil...sist! 16:12, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

 * I would see this as a geopolitical article with the Baltic states article focusing more on culture and common historical aspects. Prior to WWII, Finland was also counted as a "Baltic" state. Properly developed, I don' see any content forking. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vecrumba (talk • contribs)

According to Soviet law is yet another fantasy in the article. The USSR was not governed by the rule of law.--Termer 18:06, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Ah, but the USSR pretended it did. The Soviet constitution is quite a magnificent document. Alas, only make-believe when it came to practice. I do have to say I'm a bit unclear as to purpose... is this meant to be kind of a summary/parent to Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, their respective "SSR" articles, and also the occupation articles? Should it be? As I indicated above, "Baltic states" needs the flexibility to also discuss Finland in a historical context, which wouldn't be appropriate for this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vecrumba (talk • contribs)
 * C'mon as any country USSR had laws, Termer, don't push POV where it is not needed. Merge the articles if you want to redirect links from articles on USSR to article about independent states Xil...sist! 18:38, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

USSR pretended it did? Sure, but it doesn't mean that an encyclopedia should pretend. As any country USSR had laws. I can't believe this, in 10 years somebody might come up with ideas that Soviet Union used market economy. Once after 15 or so years of the Soviet collapse someone attempts to talks about soviet laws. Lets get this thing straight. Establishing the rule of law instead of the authoritarian, totalitarian regime was one of the major changes the post soviet societies had to go through. Thats a fact! calling this a POV pushing, I'm sorry, I can't take it seriously. --Termer 02:11, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Termer, the article is written in past tense and USSR had laws, one may question if any one acctuly followed these laws, however such writings did exit - there is a whole Category full of them. The article does not even imply that there was a rule of law, it merely says that there were laws that said something. I edited the article - there was no POV, but maybe anti-Soviet. Tagging an article that acctualy has no problem is a bad practice that you shouldn't adopt -- Xil...sist! 08:34, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for sharing your opinions. I'm sorry that I have to say this for so many times. The title of the article is not even based on and is not referring to any source. It is because it is based on someones personal opinion or POV. And please do not remove any tags on WP until the things have been sorted out. Thanks!--Termer 14:03, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

PS. the fact is the "Baltic Republics" is used as a synonym for Baltic States in English language.--Termer 14:23, 5 October 2007 (UTC) Did you mean the Folk Tales from the Soviet Union: The Baltic Republics? Thats been my point all along. Referring to Baltic Republics as Soviet Republics only can be looked at as a "Folk Tale from the Soviet Union". the one who talks about the Baltic Republics also in Soviet context is Kevin O'Connor. The first book By Gunnar Alexandersson talks about Baltic Republics in general like the other books. Thats also the fact nowadays, the Baltic Republics are the 3 republics: Republic of Estonia, Republic of Latvia,  Republic of Lithuania, member states of the EU. The Soviet POV might have some historic value to it but it doesn't justify naming an article accordingly and only referring to the era in the article. And please note, I do not wish to go over this for the third or forth time.Thanks--Termer 16:55, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The fact is that if you had read the your search results you had noticed that most of them refer to Soviet era. The things get sorted out by editing, when I edit an article and feel that I have removed everything that is POV I remove tag. You haven't specified any other concerns beside that the article mentions USSR law, if you won't come up with a sane argument in near future I will remove POV tag --  Xil ...  sist!  16:23, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

PS. If anybody wants to push the Soviet POV, then the article should be renamed the Soviet Socialist Baltic republics or anything like that and it should be noted in the article that these were not republics according to common understanding what a republic is all about but just administrative devisions of the unitarian state USSR.--Termer 17:01, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no POV in the article itself tagging it as biased is misleading. I think only pov-title should be used. As for title/merging - below  Xil ...  sist!  17:10, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, I'm sorry to go over this for the forth time then: The term Baltic Republics referred to the three Soviet Republics of Estonian SSR, Latvia SSR, and Lithuanian SSR is a POV. The fact is: the term Baltic Republics refs to the Republic of Estonia, Republic of Latvia,  Republic of Lithuania and to the Estonian SSR, Latvian SSR, Lithuanian SSR during the Soviet era.--Termer 17:37, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That can be solved by dealing with the title too Xil ...  sist!  18:24, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

The easiest would be just merging the article with Baltic states. having an article the Baltic soviet socialist republics would be still a pov title. The republics were just occupied Baltic republic/states/countries by the USSR according to the most sources other than Soviet and current Russian perhaps.--Termer 20:14, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It is not against the fact of continuity that occupational power might have had established some teritorial divison of the occupied territories. How about Baltic Republics (Cold War) ?-- Xil ... sist!  21:01, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

why don't we just call it Pribaltica :-D in case it is so important to have a separate article according to the eastern POV? Why exactly is it needed to have a separate article other than Baltic States, that were also "states" or "republics" of the USSR during the era, I fail to get it--Termer 21:26, 5 October 2007 (UTC) PS. Baltic Republics (Cold War) or anything like that would include the exile governments and diplomats of the republics housed in the US etc. and the soviet governments at the homelands, that seems like entirely new article--Termer 21:26, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Besides what is said below, here it would be posible to have in depth analysis of Soviet era. And note that this article reflects western viewpoint. The history section of Baltic states IMHO is sufficiently long and dosen't need such addition. Xil ...  sist!  22:10, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Merged versus not
I can only speak for myself, but keeping the articles separate and having some place to fold together Finland and Estonia for cultural purposes (in Baltic states) would be extraordinarily useful. It would also give all of us a (welcome) place to develop content away from the ceaseless WP:IDONTLIKEIT tagging. Just my perspective. — Pēters J. Vecrumba 19:16, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Myself, I would be for the merge. I personally often use "Baltic Republics (of the USSR)" when referring to the Baltic states in the historical context. Otherwise, I use "Baltic states". Nevertheless, in some Russian-language sources one still sees the term "Baltic Republics" being used to refer to the present-day states. Perhaps this is just a harmless old habit, or perhaps it is an intentional attempt at undermining the continuity with the pre-1940 states by stressing the continuity with the former SSRs. Who knows? (There are some Wikipedia editors out there who also seem to prefer this interpretation as well.) Anyhow, I think everything contained in this article could easily be summarised in a section of Baltic States. To the casual reader, this may well look like a WP:FORK (though not necessarily a POV fork!), as the essential difference between "Baltic states" and "Baltic republics" can be hard to spot for someone from an English-speaking country. As for making Baltic States include Finland, that would probably amount to WP:OR; instead, we could probably use good article on the Baltic Sea Region, — Zalktis 17:02, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Zalktis! Exactly my points!--Termer 17:06, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

PS. although Finland was referred to as a Baltic State up to the WWII. But that minor fact is already mentioned in the article Baltic States.--Termer 17:13, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There is an article on Baltic region. The Finland was discussed in pre-WWII perspective (please see discussion on Talk:Baltic states), I suggest you don't get too carried away with this, it seems that even then Finland wasn't always taken to be Baltic (as the Kalingrad isn't today), honestly I don't think it should be mentioned outside the section explaining use of the term. In its current state the article has a defined scope - it deals with a region within USSR, as such it is linked to from articles dealing with USSR, I don't see how redirecting all these sites to Baltic states could diminish Russian "habits". If you think this is too easy to confuse with Baltic states article should be renamed. -- Xil ... sist!  17:32, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

All good points. I'm not stuck on any particular solution, so to summarize: Too long a week to come up with some brilliant solution, I'm afraid! — Pēters J. Vecrumba 22:15, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * we are thinking merge "Baltic Republics" into "Baltic states" because
 * "Baltic Republics" is primarily an SSR-ish term in usage
 * content of "Baltic Republics" easily containable in "Baltic states"
 * the result would be of a geopolitical tilt
 * Finland being/not being/sometimes yes/sometimes no a Baltic state is just too confusing other than mentioning the fact
 * we are therefore also thinking (I'm assuming I'm not the only one who would like to edit somewhere in constructive peace)
 * an article of a more cultural bent (Finno-Ugric + Baltic) encompassing the eastern Baltic
 * give it a more geographical name
 * I have seen "Baltic Europe" used
 * "Baltic Sea cultures"?
 * "Baltic Sea region" doesn't work because that's used by international associations and working groups to encompass everyone bordering on the Baltic sea
 * simply "Eastern Baltic"?
 * Please, leave alone the title, Baltic states is a popular term (Note: I'll be mostly refering to Baltic states now). We don't have to change well defined scope of an article just because one guy said something, it might be worth to research this Nordic Estonia idea and mention it in the article. I have folowing idea how it should look:

Now it seems that most agree that the articles should be merged, also it seems that there acctualy was consensus for merge previously, but nothing was done, so let's merge them. If you agree with my idea about how Baltic states should look - large chunk of this can be used to form politics section, everything else can be added to language and culture, and the remainder could be compered to history of Baltic states, but I think it can very well be deleted Xil ...  sist!  23:25, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Baltic states are Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, everything else should be mentioned only in "Etymology and usage of the term" (except perhaps for Nazi-Soiet fact mentioning Finland as Baltic could be left in history section)
 * I think history section there is fine and does not need expansion, just a copyedit
 * Language and culture could be split in two sections, the Estonian difrences can be analysed there, certanly lead section is meant to summarise the article, not to introduce facts that are not found in rest of the article
 * That article needs politics section

The things you Xil ...  sist!  have suggested in the last post make sense to me. the Baltic Republics is going to be redirected to Baltic states, right? And politics section...I'd call it Political history where all the Pribaltica and it's etymology can be explained. Thanks--Termer 00:17, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, but I would remove links to this article from some pages. As for politics - I meant to include modern politics as well, I think that there won't be any problems if that section gains a bit of historical perspective Xil ...  sist!  00:28, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Agreed on merge. — Pēters J. Vecrumba 00:41, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Baltic states/Baltic Republics


text:
Terence Donovan

Terence Donovan may refer to:

 * Terence Donovan, Baron Donovan (1898–1971), British Labour Party Member of Parliament, 1945–1950, Law Lord, 1964–1971
 * Terence Donovan (actor) (born 1942), English-Australian actor, and father of actor/singer Jason Donovan
 * Terence Donovan (photographer) (1936–1996), English photographer and film director

Terry Donovan may refer to:

 * Terry Donovan (footballer) (born 1958), Irish footballer
 * Terry Donovan (businessman), co-founder of Rockstar Games
 * Terry Donovan (archer) (born 1944), Australian Olympic archer

title: Terence Donovan


text:
Box Car Racer (album)

Box Car Racer is the only studio album by American rock band Box Car Racer. Produced by Jerry Finn, the album was released on May 21, 2002, through MCA Records. The band was a side-project of Blink-182 members Tom DeLonge and Travis Barker, with David Kennedy completing the band's studio lineup. A bassist and friend of Barker, Anthony Celestino, later joined as the band's bassist after DeLonge recorded the bass tracks for the record.

The record is primarily based on DeLonge's post-hardcore influences, such as Fugazi and Refused. The recording sessions were particularly difficult for him, as he had recently undergone back surgery. The record is a concept album detailing the end of the world, and features dark, moody tracks mulling over confusion. Blink-182 bassist Mark Hoppus—the only member of that band not involved in the project—felt betrayed over his lack of inclusion, which evolved into tensions between him and DeLonge, which contributed to the band's 2005 breakup. Despite this, Hoppus provided guest vocals on the album's twelfth track "Elevator".

Box Car Racer peaked at number twelve on the US Billboard 200 despite little promotion, and the two singles "I Feel So" and "There Is" charted on Billboard Modern Rock Tracks chart, with the former hitting the top 10. The album received positive reviews from music critics, who complimented the darker direction in comparison to DeLonge's previous work with Blink. The group toured the album in North America in late 2002 with the Used and H2O, and subsequently dissolved in 2003.

Background
Box Car Racer was conceived by Blink-182 guitarist/vocalist Tom DeLonge and formed during a break from touring. The trio's European tour in the winter of 2001 was delayed in the aftermath of the September 11 attacks, and rescheduled dates in early 2002 were also canceled due to DeLonge's back problems, the result of a herniated disc. He began taking painkillers and developed "neurosis-inducing side effects." DeLonge had felt "bummed out" and creatively stifled while recording the group's previous album, Take Off Your Pants and Jacket. On the ensuing tour, he and Blink drummer Travis Barker would jam "every day," and Barker introduced him to post-hardcore music. DeLonge had previously been derisive of any other styles of music, but soon embraced acts like Fugazi, Quicksand, Rocket from the Crypt, and Pitchfork. He began writing heavier-sounding guitar riffs; the first riff he created became part of the song "All Systems Go". Barker, in his 2015 memoir Can I Say, maintains that he asked DeLonge if they should use the riffs for a new Blink album. "I honestly thought that Tom had already had a conversation with [bassist Mark Hoppus] about this. They were so tight—inseparable—I couldn't imagine Mark didn't know," Barker writes.

For DeLonge, he had developed an "itch to do something where he didn't feel locked in to what Blink was." According to DeLonge, Box Car Racer was not "meant to be a real band," but rather "something to do in some spare time that was really only expected to be on the low list of the totem pole of priorities in my life, and just to have an experimental creative outlet." The project was at first solely acoustic guitar-based; he considered it in its earliest stages to be a "Violent Femmes-esque acoustic record". The unnamed project went through other names, such as The Kill, and the album was initially titled Et tu, Brute?. He eventually settled on the name Box Car Racer, which was actually the name of a band Barker was in just after high school that DeLonge liked. He began writing songs about the end of the world, and connected it thematically with the biblical Book of Revelation and World War II. When reading about the war, DeLonge was "freaked out" to learn that Fat Man, the atomic bomb that was detonated over Nagasaki, was dropped from the B-29 bomber Bockscar (commonly misspelled Boxcar).

Recording and production
Box Car Racer was recorded over six weeks beginning in December 2001, primarily at Signature Sound in San Diego, California. Sessions commenced quickly, with producer Jerry Finn having sent one whole load of equipment to Signature ahead of his arrival. Barker and DeLonge worked out "80 percent" of the completed album in Barker's warehouse in Corona, California, two weeks prior to recording. When the musicians entered the studio, little was changed aside from certain lyrics, according to assistant engineer Sam Boukas. Barker completed his drum tracks in one day at two recording facilities in Los Angeles prior to the Signature sessions, with all parts recorded in the first take. DeLonge invited musician David Kennedy, whom he had met in the San Diego music circuit some years prior, to perform lead guitar parts on the album. Roger Joseph Manning Jr. plays keyboards on the record.

The sessions were particularly difficult for DeLonge, who suffered chronic back pain. "When your back is killing you and you have to have surgery and all this stuff, it's just kind of hard to keep a focus on the happier times in your life," he told MTV News. "You end up writing all these songs about feeling sad and confused." He often could only stand and sing for five minutes at a time before having to lay down again. Journalist Joe Shooman writes that the album followed a DIY spirit, rather than spending "months and months refining and polishing everything for a major label and international pop market." DeLonge intended to pay for the project himself, but when an A&R representative heard four unfinished songs, MCA—the record label Blink-182 was on—wanted to finance the album. DeLonge's manager convinced him it would be a bad idea to pass up someone else paying for its distribution. According to Boukas, an MCA representative dropped in on the sessions and was pleased with what he heard. "When we wrote this album, we didn't know if it was going to be on a label or if we were going to put it out ourselves," Barker said at the time. "Once MCA jumped on board, it was kind of like, "Whatever! That's cool. Cheers! Put it out, we don't really care!"

The project caused division in Blink-182, mostly between DeLonge and Hoppus. Hoppus was interested in being a part of the record, but DeLonge did not want it to turn into a Blink-182 album. DeLonge contended that the involvement of Barker was to refrain from having to pay a session musician. Regardless, Hoppus felt betrayed and unresolved tension dogged the band until their 2005 breakup. "Nobody talked about it. It was this strange situation that nobody addressed," DeLonge told Blender. Barker felt guilty when he told Hoppus they were going to tour in support of the album: "I felt like I had let him down [...] but he was ultimately more upset at Tom because they had ten years of history together before me." Despite this tension, Hoppus lent vocals to the track "Elevator" and shared early ideas for the next Blink-182 album. In a later Reddit AMA, Hoppus concluded, "The whole situation sucked. But I sang on the track because, at the heart of it, Tom and Travis are my friends. I'm sure Tom felt the tension and asked me as an offering. I was glad to have done it, and I was glad that he asked."

Composition and artwork
Box Car Racer was inspired by and is partly a tribute to bands DeLonge credited as an influence, such as Quicksand, Fugazi, and Refused. Musically, it is not drastically different than Blink-182, though it puts more emphasis on "slower, heavier rhythms" instead of being fast-paced. Critics primarily labeled the album as pop punk, but with a few other genre categories being ascribed to the album. PopMatters described the album as a "hardcore/emo/punk rock album" while also describing it as a pop punk album. USA Today labeled the album as power pop. The subject matter found on Box Car Racer explores the apocalypse, conspiracy theories, and Freemasonry. The album follows a central storyline, regarding an unnamed boy during the end of the world.

Barker and DeLonge wrote the songs together. DeLonge would decide what key he would sing the song in, and Barker would mostly arrange the song, toying with its structure and tempo/time signature. As for his performance on the album, Barker considered it a "totally different approach to the drums ... there are, like, jazzy bridges. ... It's so much more open and roomy." The album's final song, "Instrumental", was removed on the cassette edition of the album and replaced with an instrumental version of "I Feel So". The album's artwork, described by Shooman, consists of "bleak burgundy brown and black silhouettes plus a graffiti-esque band logo." The hidden message "LNW 13 01 1" is printed on the CD insert, which are coordinates pointing to Manhattan, New York. Art direction for the album was headed by Tim Stedman, with Stedman and Marcos Orozco designing the package. Keegan Gibbs was responsible for the "Box Car Racer" logo, while Maxx Gramajo created the tag logo artwork. Scott Heisel of Punknews.org considered the album similar to Blink-182, describing it as "Blink 182 in drop D tuning".

Critical reception
Aaron Scott of Slant was favorable in his review of Box Car Racer, writing, "Neither genre-obsessed nor intent on defying convention, Box Car Racer is the perfect union between pop-punk riffs and instrumentation that spans all rock genres from indie to folk. Finally, we have a pop band that is attempting to take advantage of the potential of its instruments." Adam Dlugacz of PopMatters summarized Box Car Racer as "pretty fantastic hardcore/emo/punk rock album. It seems to re-affirm the band's roots while proving that they are capable of more than the by-the-numbers approach of Blink. On the other hand, there's no reason this couldn't have been a Blink-182 album." Robert Morast from Argus Leader felt the same, commenting, "The music is good with brooding melodies that fester inside the soul. But for DeLonge, it just sounds like he's lost searching for his other half."

Edna Gunderson of USA Today was positive, commenting, "The music, while upbeat and even giddy, steers away from adolescent pranks and pratfalls, a welcome upgrade. The band creates a fresh breed of post-punk power pop by roughing up bright melodies." AllMusic's Brian O'Neill gave the album three stars, calling it a "far cry from the party-boy ethos DeLonge is best known for, and he wears the emotional depth well, with songs that are just as hooky as from his bread-winning main squeeze." A reviewer for Q admitted that the musicians "confound expectations with a very good record." The positive reception of the album was in contrast to the reviews for Blink, which were often negative. "I think it's a cop-out for [critics] to like the music I do," DeLonge told the Arizona Daily Star. "Critics can't say they like Blink or give us any credit, 'cause we're out there goofing around." Barker was more critical: "I especially don't care what the critics say. Most of them are like 50 years old and they're not really educated in what kind of music we're playing to begin with!" Scott Heisel of Punknews.org denounced the album as "completely and utterly forgettable".

Commercial performance
Box Car Racer was released worldwide on May 21, 2002, by MCA Records. The album debuted on the Billboard 200 at number 12 on May 30, 2002, selling 65,000 copies in its first week. The numbers were considered surprising given that the album had virtually no promotion. "The overall response to this album has been ridiculous. We didn't have much push or anything, we didn't do a whole lot of promo before the album came out and it still did really well," said Barker. As of August 2002, it had sold 244,000 copies in the U.S., according to Nielsen SoundScan. Internationally, the album charted best in Canada, where it peaked at number seven. In 2006, the album was certified gold in Canada for shipments of 50,000 copies.

"I Feel So" was the album's first single. The music video for the song, which is mainly performance-based, was co-directed by DeLonge and Nathan "Karma" Cox. The song was the band's highest-charting single, peaking at number eight on Billboard Modern Rock Tracks chart in June 2002. "There Is" was issued as the album's second and final single, and peaked at number 32 on the same chart in November 2002. The music video for that song was inspired by the film Say Anything... (1989), and was directed by Alexander Kosta. Both videos, as well as bonus footage, were included on a self-titled DVD, which was released November 2002.

Touring
To support the album, the project morphed into a full band, with Barker, DeLonge, and Kennedy. Barker invited his friend Anthony Celestino to play bass. He had initially wanted Alex Barreto, who was in the original Box Car Racer, to be a part of the "second version" of the band, but he could not get in touch with him. They played their first four shows in April 2002. The group commenced a full-scale tour behind the album in October 2002, with 22 North American shows supported by the Used and H2O.

Though DeLonge would joke around at shows, as he was known for doing with Blink-182, the overall mood was much different. "With Blink, I can't wait until I get done playing a song so I can say something stupid. With this band I hardly talk at all," he told Las Vegas Weekly. He expounded upon this in another interview: "It's a much more powerful, emotional experience than it is with Blink. To play songs and have them showcased to where it represents what this kind of music is all about is a welcome experience. It's not about anything but the music itself."

Aftermath
In a 2003 interview with Kerrang!, DeLonge claimed the album was only an attempt to "challenge myself to do different shit": "I did it for myself, whether it sold a million copies or just one, it was for myself." He clarified the band's future succinctly: "There are a lot of emotions between Mark and I and that's why there's never going to be another Box Car Racer album. It was never meant to be something that would alienate anybody." The article's author, Tom Bryant, describes the album's effect on subsequent Blink-182 albums: "It allowed [DeLonge], and therefore the band, to assess whether, approaching or in their 30s, they still really wanted to be writing songs about splitting up from teenage sweethearts or whether it was time to address something a little more serious and a little more important."

Personnel
Information adapted from CD liner notes.

Box Car Racer
 * Tom DeLonge – vocals, guitars, bass guitar
 * David Kennedy – guitars
 * Travis Barker – drums, percussion

Production
 * Jerry Finn – producer
 * Rich Costey – mixing
 * Joe McGrath – engineering
 * Brian Gardner – mastering
 * Darren Mora – assistant engineer
 * Jeff Moses – assistant engineer
 * Sam Boukas – assistant engineer
 * Mike Fasano – drum technician

Management
 * Rick DeVoe – management
 * Gary Ashley – A&R

Artwork
 * Tim Stedman – art direction, illustration, photography
 * Marcos Orozco – illustration, photography
 * Maxx Gramajo – tag logo artwork
 * Keegan Gibbs – "Box Car Racer" logo

Additional musicians
 * Roger Joseph Manning Jr. – keyboards
 * Mark Hoppus – featured vocals on "Elevator"
 * Tim Armstrong – featured vocals on "Cat Like Thief"
 * Jordan Pundik – backing vocals on "Cat Like Thief"

title: Box Car Racer (album)


text:
Talk:Box Car Racer

post-hardcore
Where in gods name did this come from? The band are OBVIOUSLY pop punk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.29.21 (talk) 22:56, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Genre
i've read tons of interviews where he was adamant about bringing rock back. the album cleary sounds like a rock album. The only song that sounds like a punk song is "my first punk song". please stop changing the genre. it's been rock for as long as I've been working on this page. thanks.

Here is an interview where he talks about wanting to write a punk record but it progress' into a rock record. transcript of an interview

-Myxomatosis 07:42, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

there are several songs on the album that sound punk (they have even rancids tim Armstrong for a song), and i have look over the internet and found many sites saying they are PUNK. so why dont we come to an agreement saying that they are punk and rock

-Mr.Warr

although the truth seems to have no effect on wikipedia. Box Car Racer are actually an Emo band. Tom Delonge started the band with the intention of recreating the late 80's Emo music put out by the Dischord label. (real emo, not the slang term Emo). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.202.233.100 (talk) 16:04, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

If it's emo, which is possible then "I feel so" is the best song for the genre that they made. Also according to the storyline, a guy kills himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.38.65.47 (talk) 19:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Band Name
Okay, is it Box Car Racer or Boxcar Racer? Because on AMG they spell it as the latter, but on this page they reffer to it as three words... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Underwater (talk • contribs) 00:10, 21 May 2006

 * I have had this doubt before, and I still can't give a good answer.-Zingazin 00:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

 * It's Box Car Racer. That's how it's spelled on their album, their concert posters, etc. -Myxomatosis 08:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I am not sure, I've been wondering the same thing. I went to their site and went to their discography page and for 6 out of 7 of the entries it says "Box Car Racer", where as in the remaining entry it says "Boxcar Racer". Based on that, though, I'm going to say it is most likely "Box Car" and not "Boxcar" like Myxomatosis said, above. Bsroiaadn 21:30, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I've read a quote from Travis in which he stated that Box Car Racer was not chosen because of the WWII reference, but rather because it sounded "cool" and Tom found out later that it was the name of the bomb. Can anybody find this quote?

yepps i found the quote. its in the transcript link on the aliens-exist site. Says it wasnt found out til later that it was the plane from hiroshima.

It's actually Boxcar Racer. Just check the album cover. Peace :)

-Mr. Blink-1111111188888888222222222

It sort of looks like one word on the cover, but it's two. Tom has said so himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.41.249.178 (talk) 03:55, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

new intro
who wrote the new intro? you're tottaly wrong. Mark Hoppus was even on the box car racer album, +44 and RCR were made at two completely seperate times. Mark knew all about BCR. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Olir (talk • contribs) 23:06, 16 February 2007 (UTC).

Concept Album
I think someone needs to write about the concept of the album e.g.:

I feel so - A boy is disgusted with the government, hes mad, angry, lost, cheap, used, unfaithful -- "lets start over!! lets start over!!" He begins to have ideas of running away... "i wish i had power, i wish i could lead..." etc.

All system go - He and his friends [youth] leave their friends and family to run away - "i left my fear behind me" "the government is lying" "the youth they won't beleive them"

Watch the World - He and his friends watch the world destory itself "i watched the smoke as it grew darker and blew up through the roof" "i held your hand and sat there knowing that we'd make it through"

Tiny voices - Then, his conscince starts bothering him, rebelling against his government, leaving his friends and family behind etc. and he knows him running away won't solve anything and he is once again overcome with a feeling of being completely useless

Cat Like Thief - He meets a girl, one of the people who he has run away with "cat like thief she stole air from my lungs" "......don't leave her.... dont leave her..."

And I - He falls in love with the girl. Now, whether or not he wins her over is not addressed in this song, "I want her, need her" but songs such as sorrow and the end with you suggest he does

Letters to God - One night, in between travelling in order to escape world destruction, he prays to God that the world will be spared despite these politicians poisoning the planet and ultimately dooming us all

My First Punk Song - In this song he starts getting pissed off at alot of these so called "punk bands" and their message about how the government is full of shit, but them not doing anything about and him taking matters into his own hand

Sorrow - A breakup songs, his girlfriend has left him "I'm sorry, please forgive me"

There Is: This song is him confessing to this girl how much he loved her and always will and hopes their relationship will live on

The End With You: In this song, he is looking back over the last however long it's been, and just basically sums up the album so far. Also he is feeling somewhat useless again thinking that this little endeavor of his will be forgotten - "Maybe we'll be forgotten when the world is torn apart"

Elevator: He finally realizes that nothing he will do will save the world from destruction and commits suicide by jumping off a tall, tall building

And of course on the album cover there is a boy running, the name box car racer refers to the plane that dropped a nuclear bomb and brought destruction, the racer of course is the boy.

Olir 23:44, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

i thought he when committed suicide in "Elevator", he jumped down an elevator shaft? SkaterBoy182 (talk) 02:33, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Actually... the term boxcar racer was picked cause it sounds cool.

Some of the songs could have two meanings I guess, but I believe Tom has said that Letters to God is about his grandma dying and Elevator is about a 9/11 jumper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.41.249.178 (talk) 04:00, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Barker
"Barker was also offended when he found out he was only involved in the project to save DeLonge some money". We need a citation for this or its got to go, ive never heard it before. Aswell as the point about Barker only being used because he didn't want a studio drummer Olir 19:12, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

If this is true, he would have used Mark as the Bassist and made another Blink-182 album and just called the album Boxcar Racer.

Mr. Blink 111111188888888222222222

Spiritual Epiphany
I can't find anything about it. Not on Google, not on himynameismark.com. Convince me that it's true, or, at least, add a 'citation needed' tag. --GraafGeorge 08:34, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Infinity Runner?
I read somewhere that the boy on the cover was named infinity runner but can not find this again anywhere. Also I am looking for a red t-shirt with this image on it. Any ideas where to find it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.228.189.115 (talk) 02:55, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

Origin Of Name
Someone should clean this up a bit. I deleted the first paragraph, which was simply graffiti, and I'll work on it a bit, but someone should go over it a little later and do some more work. 173.210.174.130 (talk) 21:41, 15 February 2010 (UTC)Aaron

Band Members
"Mark Hoppus was in the band for a short while playing bass and vocals which were on the song "Elevator", which was the only song he played on before leaving the band."

He plays acoustic guitar in the song "There Is".

Shouldn't he be listed in "Former Band Members"?

He wasn't in the band, he just provided guest vocals on the song 'Elevator', the article here on wiki is wrong —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.3.83 (talk) 16:15, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Suggested merge of Box Car Racer to Angels & Airwaves
See comments about this on Talk:Angels & Airwaves, and please contribute to the discussion. Garchy (talk) 13:37, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Box Car Racer


text:
User:Jleybov

I had never even heard of Wikipedia until I ran across this story on Slashdot congratulating it on its 100,000th article. Since then Wikipedia has enjoyed enormous success, increasing its article count more than five-fold and threatening to become the Internet's fixture reference work. At the same time Wikipedia explodes in breadth I hope it can attain new profundities of depth, and begin measuring itself against the same rigorous standards of quality as scholarly reference works are judged by.

Bio
I came to the Bay Area in 1997 as a student and have remained here since, working as a software developer for the same company that first hired me. Unlike most of my peers I chose not to join a start-up, and so the closest I came to the dotcom excitement of the era was paying off my student loans with some of the stock options I managed to cash out at an opportune moment.

Work
My current areas of interest include historiography, media analysis, and future Nobel laureate Philip Roth (hey Oslo, he ain't getting any younger!).

Some of the more successful articles I've been been responsible for are:

 * Philip Roth
 * Portnoy's Complaint
 * Journalism fraud

Goals for 2005

 * Implementing Wikicite

title: User:Jleybov


text:
Iris (2001 film)

Iris is a 2001 biographical drama film about novelist Iris Murdoch and her relationship with her husband John Bayley. Directed by Richard Eyre from a screenplay he co-wrote with Charles Wood, the film is based on Bayley's 1999 memoir Elegy for Iris. Judi Dench and Jim Broadbent portray Murdoch and Bayley during the later stages of their marriage, while Kate Winslet and Hugh Bonneville appear as the couple in their younger years. The film contrasts the start of their relationship, when Murdoch was an outgoing, dominant individual compared to the timid and scholarly Bayley, and their later life, when Murdoch was suffering from Alzheimer's disease and tended to by a frustrated Bayley in their North Oxford home in Charlbury Road. The beach scenes were filmed at Southwold in Suffolk, one of Murdoch's favourite haunts.

The film had its world premiere in Los Angeles on 14 December 2001, followed by a theatrical release in the United Kingdom on 18 January 2002 and in the United States on 29 March. It grossed $16 million on a $5.5 million budget and received positive reviews, with praise towards the performances. For his role as Bayley, Broadbent won Best Supporting Actor at the 74th Academy Awards, with Dench (Best Actress) and Winslet (Best Supporting Actress) also receiving nominations.

Plot
When the young Iris Murdoch meets fellow student John Bayley at Somerville College, Oxford, he is a naive virgin easily flummoxed by her libertine spirit, arch personality, and obvious artistic talent. Decades later, little has changed and the couple keep house, with John doting on his more famous wife. When Iris begins experiencing forgetfulness and dementia, however, the devoted John struggles with hopelessness and frustration, and becomes her carer, as his wife's mind deteriorates from the ravages of Alzheimer's disease.

Reception
Review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes reported that 79% of 110 critics gave the film a positive review, with an average rating of 7.1/10. The website's critical consensus states, "A solidly constructed drama, Iris is greatly elevated by the strength of its four lead performances." Metacritic assigned the film a weighted average score of 76 out of 100, based on 30 critics, indicating "generally favorable reviews".

title: Iris (2001 film)


text:
Talk:Cooperstown

Hi Zoe, re removing Alice Cooper's restaurant, what would happen if I were to create an article on advertising slogans through the ages, old slogans for companies no longer in existence, as well as those still around? I mean as a subject of would-be research. Can you really make it such a hard-and-fast rule? --Dieter Simon 01:49 Feb 17, 2003 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cooperstown


text:
David Bailey

David Royston Bailey (born 2 January 1938) is an English photographer and director, most widely known for his fashion photography and portraiture, and role in shaping the image of the Swinging Sixties.

Early life
David Royston Bailey was born at Whipps Cross University Hospital, Leytonstone, to Herbert Bailey, a tailor's cutter, and his wife Gladys, a machinist. From the age of three he lived in East Ham.

Bailey developed a love of natural history, and this led him into photography. As he had undiagnosed dyslexia, he experienced problems at school. He attended a private school, Clark's College in Ilford, where he says they taught him less than the more basic council school. As well as dyslexia he also has the motor skill disorder dyspraxia (developmental coordination disorder).

In one school year, he claims he only attended 33 times. He left school on his fifteenth birthday, to become a copy boy at the Fleet Street offices of the Yorkshire Post. He raced through a series of dead end jobs, before his call up for national service in 1956, serving with the Royal Air Force in Singapore in 1957. The appropriation of his trumpet forced him to consider other creative outlets, and he bought a Rolleiflex camera.

He was demobbed in August 1958, and determined to pursue a career in photography, he bought a Canon rangefinder camera. Unable to obtain a place at the London College of Printing because of his school record, he became a second assistant to David Ollins, in Charlotte Mews. He earned £3 10s (£3.50) a week, and acted as studio dogsbody. He was delighted to be called to an interview with photographer John French.

Professional career
In 1959, Bailey became a photographic assistant at the John French studio, and in May 1960, he was a photographer for John Cole's Studio Five, before being contracted as a fashion photographer for British Vogue magazine later that year. He also undertook a large amount of freelance work.

Along with Terence Donovan and Brian Duffy, Bailey captured and helped create the 'Swinging London' of the 1960s: a culture of fashion and celebrity chic. The three photographers socialised with actors, musicians and royalty, and found themselves elevated to celebrity status. Together, they were the first real celebrity photographers, named by Norman Parkinson "the Black Trinity".

The film Blowup (1966), directed by Michelangelo Antonioni, depicts the life of a London fashion photographer who is played by David Hemmings, whose character was inspired by Bailey. The "Swinging London" scene was aptly reflected in his Box of Pin-Ups (1964): a box of poster-prints of 1960s celebrities including Terence Stamp, The Beatles, Mick Jagger, Jean Shrimpton, P. J. Proby, Cecil Beaton, Rudolf Nureyev and East End gangsters, the Kray twins. The Box was an unusual and unique commercial release. It reflected the changing status of the photographer that one could sell a collection of prints in this way. Strong objection to the presence of the Krays by fellow photographer, Lord Snowdon, was the major reason no American edition of the "Box" was released, and that a second British edition was not issued. The record sale for a copy of 'Box of Pin-Ups' is reported as "north of £20,000".

At Vogue Bailey was shooting covers within months, and, at the height of his productivity, he shot 800 pages of Vogue editorial in one year. Penelope Tree, a former girlfriend, described him as "the king lion on the Savannah: incredibly attractive, with a dangerous vibe. He was the electricity, the brightest, most powerful, most talented, most energetic force at the magazine".

American Vogue's creative director Grace Coddington, then a model herself, said "It was the Sixties, it was a raving time, and Bailey was unbelievably good-looking. He was everything that you wanted him to be – like the Beatles but accessible – and when he went on the market everyone went in. We were all killing ourselves to be his model, although he hooked up with Jean Shrimpton pretty quickly".

Of model Jean Shrimpton, Bailey said: "She was magic and the camera loved her too. In a way she was the cheapest model in the world – you only needed to shoot half a roll of film and then you had it. She had the knack of having her hand in the right place, she knew where the light was, she was just a natural."

Since 1966, Bailey has also directed several television commercials and documentaries. From 1968 to 1971 he directed and produced TV documentaries titled Beaton, Warhol and Visconti. As well as fashion photography, Bailey photographed album sleeve art for musicians including The Rolling Stones and Marianne Faithfull.

Bailey was hired in 1970 by Island Records' Chris Blackwell to shoot publicity photos of Cat Stevens for his upcoming album Tea for the Tillerman. Stevens, who is now known as Yusuf Islam maintains that he disliked having his photo on the cover of his albums, as had previously been the case, although he allowed Bailey's photographs to be placed on the inner sleeve of the album.

In 1972, rock singer Alice Cooper was photographed by Bailey for Vogue magazine, almost naked apart from a snake. Cooper used Bailey the following year to shoot for the group's chart topping Billion Dollar Babies album. The shoot included a baby wearing shocking eye makeup and, supposedly, one billion dollars in cash requiring the shoot to be under armed guard. In 1976, Bailey published Ritz Newspaper together with David Litchfield. In 1985, Bailey was photographing stars at the Live Aid concert at Wembley Stadium. As he recalled later: "The atmosphere on the day was great. At one point I got a tap on my shoulder and spun round. Suddenly there was a big tongue down my throat! It was Freddie Mercury."

In 1992, Bailey directed the BBC drama Who Dealt? starring Juliet Stevenson, story by Ring Lardner. In 1995 he directed and wrote the South Bank Film The Lady is a Tramp featuring his wife Catherine Bailey. In 1998 he directed a documentary with Ginger Television Production, Models Close Up, commissioned by Channel 4 Television.

In 2012, the BBC made a film of the story of his 1962 New York photoshoot with Jean Shrimpton, entitled We'll Take Manhattan, starring Aneurin Barnard as Bailey.

In October 2013, Bailey took part in Art Wars at the Saatchi Gallery curated by Ben Moore. The artist was issued with a stormtrooper helmet, which he transformed into a work of art. Proceeds went to the Missing Tom Fund set up by Ben Moore to find his brother Tom who has been missing for over ten years. The work was also shown on the Regents Park platform as part of Art Below Regents Park.

In October 2020 Bailey's memoir Look Again in co-operation with author James Fox was published by Macmillan Books, a review on his life and work.

Fashion
Bailey began working with fashion brand Jaeger in the late 1950s when Jean Muir landed the role of designer. After working alongside other fashion photographers such as the late Norman Parkinson, Bailey was officially commissioned by Vogue in 1962.

His first shoot in New York City was of young model Jean Shrimpton, who wore a range of Jaeger and Susan Small clothing, including a camel suit with a green blouse and a suede coat worn with kitten heels. The shoot was titled 'Young Idea Goes West'.

After 53 years Bailey returned to Jaeger to shoot their AW15 campaign. As menswear subject; James Penfold modelled tailored tweed blazers and a camel coat. Also on the shoot was model, philanthropist and film director Elisa Sednaoui along with GQ magazine's most stylish male 2003, Martin Gardner.

Awards

 * 2001: Commander of the Order of the British Empire, as part of 2001 Queen's Birthday Honours.
 * 2005: Centenary Medal and Honorary Fellowship (HonFRPS), Royal Photographic Society.
 * 2016: Lifetime Achievement award, Infinity Awards, International Center of Photography, New York.

Painting and sculpture
Bailey paints and sculpts. Some of his sculptures were shown in London in 2010, and paintings and mixed media works were shown in October 2011.

TV appearances
In the 1970s Bailey lost some equipment in a robbery and replaced it with the new Olympus OM system equipment which was substantially smaller and lighter than contemporary competitors' equipment. He then appeared in advertising promoting the Olympus OM-1 35 mm single lens reflex camera. He subsequently appeared in a series of UK TV commercials for the Olympus Trip camera.

Personal life
Bailey has been married four times: in 1960 to Rosemary Bramble; in 1965 to the actress Catherine Deneuve (divorced 1972); in 1975 to American fashion model and writer Marie Helvin; and in 1986 to the model Catherine Dyer (born 20 July 1961), to whom he remains married. He is a long-time vegetarian and refrains from drinking alcohol. Bailey is an art-lover with a long-held passion for the works of Picasso. His company address is in London; his wife and their photographer son Fenton Fox Bailey are directors. The family maintain a home on Dartmoor, near Plymouth.

Bailey was diagnosed with vascular dementia in about 2018, but continued to work, and said in 2021 that it was not affecting his work although he only had three months' memory.

Books

 * Box of Pin-Ups, 1964
 * Goodbye Baby & Amen, 1969, 2017
 * Warhol, 1974
 * Beady Minces, 1974
 * Papua New Guinea, 1975
 * Mixed Moments, 1976
 * Trouble and Strife, 1980
 * Mrs. David Bailey, 1980
 * Bailey NW1, 1982
 * Black & White Memories, 1983
 * Nudes 1981–1984, 1984
 * Imagine, 1985
 * If We Shadows, 1992
 * The Lady is a Tramp, 1995
 * Rock & Roll Heroes, 1997
 * Archive One, 1999 (also titled The Birth of the Cool for USA)
 * Chasing Rainbows, 2001
 * Art of Violence, Kate Kray & David Bailey, 2003 (also titled Diamond Geezers)
 * Bailey/Rankin Down Under, 2003
 * Archive Two: Locations, 2003
 * Bailey's Democracy, 2005
 * Havana, 2006
 * NY JS DB 62, 2007
 * Pictures That Mark Can Do, 2007
 * Is That So Kid, 2008
 * David Bailey: 8 Minutes: Hirst & Bailey, 2009 With Damien Hirst
 * EYE, 2009
 * Flowers, Skulls, Contacts, 2010
 * British Heroes in Afghanistan, 2010
 * Bailey's East End (Steidl, 2014) 3 vols.
 * The David Bailey SUMO, 2019
 * Look Again, 2020

Exhibitions

 * National Portrait Gallery 1971
 * One Man Retrospective Victoria & Albert Museum 1983
 * International Center of Photography (ICP) NY 1984
 * Curator "Shots of Style" Victoria & Albert Museum 1985
 * Pictures of Sudan for Band Aid at The Institute for Contemporary Arts (ICA) *1985
 * Auction at Sotheby's for Live Aid Concert for Band Aid 1985
 * Bailey Now! Royal Photographic Society in Bath 1989
 * Numerous Exhibitions at Hamiltons Gallery, London. 1989 to now
 * Fahey Klein Gallery, Los Angeles 1990
 * Camerawork Photogallerie, Berlin. 1997
 * Carla Sozzani. Milan. 1997
 * A Gallery for Fine Photography, New Orleans. 1998
 * Touring exhibition "Birth of the Cool" 1957–1969 & contemporary work
 * Barbican Art Gallery, London – 1999
 * National Museum of Film, Photography & Television, Bradford. 1999–2000
 * Moderna Museet, Stockholm, Sweden. 2000
 * City Art Museum, Helsinki, Finland 2000
 * Modern Art Museum, The Dean Gallery, National Galleries of Scotland, Edinburgh 2001
 * Proud Gallery London Bailey /Rankin Down Under
 * Gagosian Gallery. Joint with Damien Hirst "14 Stations of the Cross" 2004
 * Gagosian Gallery. Artists by David Bailey. 2004
 * Democracy. Faggionato Fine Arts 2005
 * Havana. Faggionato Fine Arts 2006
 * Pop Art Gagosian London 2007
 * Galeria Hilario Galguera Mexico 2007
 * National Portrait Gallery – Beatles to Bowie 2009
 * Bonhams, London. Pure Sixties Pure Bailey 2010
 * Pangolin London. Sculpture + 2010
 * The Stockdale Effect, Paul Stolper Gallery, London 2010
 * David Bailey's East End. Compressor House, London, 2012.
 * David Bailey's East End Faces London February/May 2013
 * Bailey's Stardust, National Portrait Gallery, London 2014
 * Bailey's Stardust, National Gallery, Edinburgh 2015
 * David Bailey Stardust, PAC – Padiglione di Arte Contemporanea, Milano (Italy) 2015

title: David Bailey


text:
Draft:Baba Nyonya

Baba Nyonya is a specific subgroup of Chinese Peranakans found in the Straits of Malacca region.

History
The Peranakan are descendants of Han Chinese men and local native women of various ethnicities and religions, including Muslim and Hindu. The Peranakan Straits Chinese of Singapore and Malaysia have Han Chinese paternal ancestry and their Malay ancestry is maternal. The Chinese-mestizo community among the Moro Muslims in the southern Philippines are descended from non-Muslim Han Chinese men and Moro women, partially from Peranakan Straits Chinese men and partially from mainland Han Chinese who moved directly to Mindanao. The Chinese-mestizos among the Moros are not related to Hui Muslims, and follow distinctly Han customs.

Many Peranakan in Java, Indonesia are descendants of non-Muslim Chinese men who married abangan Javanese Muslim women. Most of the Chinese men did not convert to Islam since their Javanese wives did not ask them to, but a minority of Javanese women asked them to convert so a Chinese Muslim community made out of converts appeared among the Javanese. In the late half of the 19th century, Javanese Muslims became more adherent to Islamic rules due to going on hajj and more Arabs arriving in Java, ordering circumcision for converts. The Batavian Muslims in the 19th century completely absorbed the converted Chinese Muslims who originally had their own separate kapitan and community in the late 18th century. The remaining commoner non-Muslim Chinese Peranakans descended from Chinese men and Javanese Muslim women generally stopped marrying Javanese and the elite Peranakans stopped marrying Javanese completely and instead started only marrying fellow Chinese Peranakans in the 19th century, as they realized they might get absorbed by the Muslims. DNA tests done on Chinese Peranakan in Singapore showed that those Peranakan who are mixed with Malays are mostly of paternal Han Chinese descent and of maternal Malay descent. Peranakans in Malaysia and Singapore formed when non-Muslim Chinese men were able to marry Malay Muslim women a long time ago without converting to Islam. This is no longer the case in modern times where anyone who marries Malay women is required to convert to Islam.

Peranakan, Straits Chinese, Baba Nyonya are all names for the descendants of Han Chinese men and their Javanese, Sumatran and Malay wives. Han Chinese men did not allow their women to leave China, so they married local Muslim Javanese and other Southeast Asian women. Dayak women were married by Han Chinese men who settled in Borneo as noted in the 18th century. One Dayak man named Budi mentioned a Chinese man married Budi's sister and that he liked Chinese but he hated Madurese as he was talking about the massacres of Madurese settlers. Malay and Dayak ethnically cleansed Madurese settlers from their and in West Kalimantan starting in Sambas from December 1996 to February 2001 after the Sampit fights in December 2000.

The Chinese are perhaps the most important people in Borneo. They have been traders and settlers on the coast from beyond historic times, and, as has just been stated, have for an equally long period mixed with the natives; so that some Dyaks—the Dusuns especially might almost be classed with them. They are not only traders who amass wealth merely to return with it to their own empire, but miners, agriculturists, and producers, without whom it would be difficult to develop the country. The Philippines, Singapore, and Borneo receive, perhaps, a larger number of these immigrants than any other countries. In Borneo they are scattered over the whole seaboard, carrying on a good deal of the river trade, and supplanting in many ways the less energetic Malay. But they are chiefly to be found in West Borneo, especially in the mining districts, as in Sambas and Montrado (Menteradu) in Dutch territory. Numbers are settled around Bau and Bidi, in Sarawak, and in the capital, Kuching. In North Borneo an irruption of some thousands occurred on the opening up of the country, and great numbers are employed on the tobacco plantations lately established. In Labuan, and in Pengaron in South Borneo, the coal mines were worked by Chinese, and they still act as sago-washers in the former island. Bound together by societies with stringent laws, their system of co-operation enables them to prosper where others would fail. In West Borneo they thus became so powerful as to defy the Dutch Government, who had great difficulty in subduing them. In 1912, Chinese engaged in mass violent riots against Dutch colonial rule in Surayaba and Batavia in the Dutch East Indies.

Among the Straits Chinese (Peranakan) descendants in Sulu, the Philippines is Abdusakur Tan II, the governor.

Many Straits Chinese (Peranakans) migrated from Singapore to Jolo, Sulu and Mindanao to live and trade among the Moro Muslims like the Tausug people and Maguindanaons and sell weapons, rifles, cannon and opium to them in exchange for gutta-percha. Tausug and Chinese married each other and Chinese also converted to Islam. Moros carried out suicide juramentado attacks against the Japanese. Moro juramentados used opium in their attacks against US soldiers. American military officers Charles Wilkes saw Sulu Moro Sultan Mohammed Damaliel Kisand (spelling error of Jamalul Kiram) and his sons smoke opium and he had bloodshot eyes because of it. Datu Uto received Spencer and Enfield rifles from Straits Chinese (Peranakan) merchants. Lantaka swivel bronze cannon were sold by Chinese to the Moros who were fighting the Americans. A novel was written about this.

Peranakans in Malaysia and Singapore formed when non-Muslim Chinese men were able to marry Malay Muslim women a long time ago without converting to Islam. This is no longer the case in modern times where anyone who marries Malay women is required to convert to Islam.

The early "Hui" communities who fled the Ispah rebellion in Quanzhou may have become the Wali Songo in Java and some of them may have went to the Moro Sulu Sultanate and Mindanao. However, their communities disappeared or were assimilated and they have no relations with the Han descended Peranakan Chinese, including the Peranakan Chinese who converted to Islam, and the Hui have no relations to the Chinese mestizo Moro Muslims who are descended from Han men and practice Han cultural taboos like the taboo against patrilineal cousin marriage. Hui in China practice marriage of patrilineal cousins of the same surname to each other which the Han descended Chinese mestizo Moro Muslims do not.

Some non-Muslim Hui descended from Hui clans such as the Chendai Ding clan and Baiqi Guo clan who left Islam from the early Ming dynasty have recently immigrated to Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia and Manila in the Philippines. They are not represented among Peranakans and not found among the Chinese Moro mestizos. Since Han Chinese identity is based on paternal descent these Hui who left Islam created false genealogies with Han paternal ancestors on them when they were trying to hide as Han and the non-Muslim Hui in Manila still maintain this practice. These non-Muslim Hui in Manila, Singapore, Indonesia and Malaysia do not like to talk about their Muslim ancestry even though they are fully aware of it and some express dislike towards Islam.

Balinese women, Bugis women and other native women in Indonesia who married Han Chinese men were buried according to Chinese custom with Chinese characters on their gravestones instead of being cremated.

Local Muslim women who dealt in the cloth trade willingly married Han Chinese men in Palembang and Jambi and also local Muslim women in Banten married Han Chinese men. The Han Chinese men converted to Islam to please their Muslim wives. The same Muslim women refused to deal or even meet with Dutch men especially in Palembang since the Dutch were infamous for sexually abusing indigenous Muslim women. Han Chinese merchants were a major rival of the Dutch in colonial Indonesia. Han Chinese interpreters advised the local Muslim king of Jambi to go to war against the Dutch, while the Dutch attacked Chinese ships and Thai ships to stop them from trading with the Muslims in Jambi and make them trade with the Dutch in Batavia. The Chinese continued to violate the Dutch ban on trade with Jambi. The Dutch East India Company was also angered by Thailand trading with the Jambi Sultanate and the Jambi Sultanate sending pepper and flowers as tribute to Thailand. leading to tensions between Thailand the Dutch in 1663-1664 and 1680-1685. The Dutch wanted Chinese banned from Thai junks and were angry when a Thai ambassador in Iran took out a loan from the Dutch in Surat but didn't pay it back after his ship got repaired. The 1682 Dutch invasion of Banten (Bantam) in Indonesia also raised alarms in Thailand, so the Thai King Narai courted the French to counter the Dutch. Dutch East India Company attacked Zheng Zhilong's junks which were trading pepper with Jambi, but while the Dutch transferred 32 Chinese prisoners into the Dutch ship, the remaining Chinese managed to slaughter the 13 Dutch sailors on board the Chinese junk and retake the vessel. Zheng Zhilong demanded the Dutch then release the 32 Chinese in 1636. Dutch East India Company blockaded Thai trade in 1664 and in 1661-1662 seized a Thai junk owned by a Persian official in Thailand. The Dutch tried to impede Thai and Chinese competition with the Dutch in the pepper trade at Jambi. The Jambi Sultan temporarily jailed English merchants during violence between the Dutch and English. The Thai and Jambi Sultanate angrily complained against the Dutch over Dutch attacks and attempts to impede Jambi's trade with Chinese and Thai. Chinese junks regularly traded with Jambi, Patani, Siam and Cambodia.

The title of Shahbandar was held by Han Chinese in Jambi and Japara as Chinese came to those cities and Bantam to trade in pepper. If the 15th century there were Chinese in Surabaya and in the late half of the 14th century there were Chinese in Grise and in the 14th century there were Chinese in Tumasik. Jambi was visited every year by Chinese for pepper that came from the Sumatra Minangkabau highlands. Palembang also exported pepper.

Commerce in Jambi was dominated by Chinese merchants and local Jambi people also benefited from renting out to rubber plantations.

title: Draft:Baba Nyonya