text:
Talk:Ogg

Tutorial: How to play and/or use Ogg Vorbis files
Please check Help with Ogg Vorbis for advice on playing sound files on Wikipedia and other places.

If you would like to see a list of all Ogg Vorbis files available at Wikipedia (most of them under the public domain), go to Sound/list.

-- Saoshyant talk / contribs (I don't like Wikipedophiles) 14:30, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Lossy and lossless codecs
Should it be pointed out for each codec whether it is lossy or lossless? Someone just changed FLAC's opening text, "an audio codec", to "a lossless audio codec". This is fine, I suppose, even if it's redundant as FLAC's description text goes on to explain its lossless nature.

So, should it be explicitly pointed out for each codec whether it is lossy or lossless? And how should this be achieved in a consistent manner?

I already did some work on the organization of the codecs list, hopefully making it more immediately understandable and readable. Maybe, just as I broke down the codecs to "audio" and "video", they should also be broken into levels of "lossy" and "lossless". I'll go ahead and do this, as I'm really the only person that consistently edits these pages, but if someone has a better idea: feel free to edit, of course. --Jizzbug

The list in the Ogg codecs section should be presented as a table.--Michael Ray

 * It should be pointed out, saying it in the opening text is a good idea. Because people generally don't know the difference and don't get that even if they don't hear a difference that there is loss of quality. (so narrow-minded) :( Thelennonorth (talk) 20:11, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Missing focus
This page has good links to the codecs frequently embedded in Ogg containers but says essentially nothing about the bitstream format itself, its uses, or implications. I'm going to make a major rewrite of this in the next day or so. --Heywood

 * Ogg Squish :: I removed Ogg Squish from the list because it was never an Ogg codec. It was a project by the same author as Ogg Vorbis, but it was never in an Ogg encapsulation.  However, now that I have tracked down the source, I'll be bringing it up to date so we can add it back in.. probobally 6-8 months.  Not a top priority for me.  Source code can be found at: http://www.mit.edu/afs/sipb/user/mwhitson/Project/Ogg/ogg9-partial.tgz 207.127.233.34 12:33, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Link to matroska? --Repabil

User help
Hello Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason,

I restored the link to user help. Here is the rationale:

Thank you for your understanding. Opus33 17:04, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Many Wikipedia articles contain sound files. They are labeled with a link to Ogg.
 * The Ogg Vorbis format continues to be obscure, and most people's computers are not set up to play these files.
 * Computer-savvy people will immediately know what to do; they will find and download a player that can handle Ogg files.
 * However, many Wikipedia readers are not computer-savvy. They deserve to be given help, immediately and clearly.  Otherwise they will simply give up.
 * This is why the Ogg article needs a link, prominently located, to the help file.

 * The need for a help page is inevitable, but the need for it to be linked via this page is not. There is thus a very simple way around this issue, which I seem to remember pointing out before: fix the links to point directly to the help page. A link to a Wikipedia: or Help: page next to each sound would actually be more helpful, in that it would be more direct; and if the link was added using a template, it would be a lesser breach of the avoid self-references policy.
 * Meanwhile, I still think How to play Ogg files needs serious work, and in particular a more appropriate list of software than that provided by Vorbis.com. That's a larger issue, but again, if all the references were in one template, we could choose between the various help pages (yours, current, mine, or most likely some combination thereof) just by changing the template, and even decide at some point in the future to use something like meta:Template:Sound if it seemed desirable.
 * So, the point is, rather than retaining the self-reference - against general policy - we should be tracking down the references to this page and replacing them with something more appropriate. - IMSoP 19:49, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Hello IMSoP,

 * Since we last discussed, some other editors evidently have taken up the Ogg help problem, and there now seems to be an "official" solution, with a help file posted at Audio_help. I've relinked this page to that one, and when I have the time, I will remove all links to my old help file.

 * The people involved have also devised a template to put next to sound files, which you can see at (for example) Piano Sonata No. 14 (Beethoven).

 * There are still a lot of sound files whose only "how to" link is to this page, so until they all get fixed to point to Audio_help instead, I'd like to leave this link in place. Also, it will be important to periodically check that any new links to Ogg that should be linking to Audio_help get corrected.

 * I hope this strikes you as helpful, or at least well-intentioned. Yours truly, Opus33 23:10, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi Opus33, the reason I removed the link was to generally avoid self-references in the article, see Avoid self-references, I say generally because that's not the only thing i changed, see the diff, I also removed the "List of .ogg files on Wikipedia" link which was completely inappropriate.
 * Regardless, I think the problem could be resolved of course by fixing the links you mentioned and by just adding a disambiguation notice at the top: This article is about the Ogg container format, for the audio format see Vorbis., this would immitiately direct anyone wanting to play Vorbis files to that article (which contains the help link you mentioned). —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason 14:18, 2005 Mar 8 (UTC)

more info
this needs more info about the concept of a "wrapper". how is the vorbis or theora or flac file contained within the ogg file? why would anyone do this in the first place? can all of these "codecs" exist outside of ogg files, like .flac files can? (i didn't know you could put flac files inside oggs until just now. you can, right?  everything in the codecs section can be put inside one?)  etc. - Omegatron 18:27, May 25, 2005 (UTC)

"The segments provide a way to group segments into packets", this appears to be recursive definition to me... does the second segment just mean a chunk of data ?

Has there been an Ogg Project?
This article and Theora and Xiph.Org Foundation make it sound as if the technologies where developed as the Ogg Project. Is that true? --Hhielscher 01:34, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What is a codecs?
Yes I followed the link and I'm not much wiser. What is needed is an eplanation as to what ogg codecs actually do and why you might need one. Is a codecs what you need if you want to transfer the tracks from your CDs to ogg format? Is kaudiocreator a front end for an ogg codecs? It seems to me that if you know enougth about ogg to understand this article you don't need to read it.Dejvid 15:46, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Ogg is only a container format. Music is stored as Vorbis inside an Ogg container. Please tell us at Talk:Container format how we could improve that page.--Hhielscher 16:09, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

If a concept is new then it is much easier to understand in a specific context. What I was trying to say is that what is needed is an explanation of what a codecs is in relation to ogg files. I'm begining to grasp that what I really need to understand is vorbis. Vorbis is mentioned on the page but only as a codecs and of course at the top to say that some people wrongly call vorbis ogg, ( but nothing to help the reader to realize should they have been under that misconception). What I have on my hard disk is files with .ogg at the end and these are the things that produce music when I play them. Those are the things that are real to me. What is needed is something like, on this page, "The audio files with a .ogg extention on your disk are codecs like vorbis contained in a ogg container format". I say "like" because that is just my guess as to what they are and is no doubt incorrect. (Thank you for replying)Dejvid 18:03, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

 * I guess the idea of container formats is not that new. If you have a ogg file that contains audio than it may contain Speex, Vorbis or FLAC (as listed in Ogg). Athough Vorbis may be included in other containers as well, see Comparison_of_container_formats.--Hhielscher 19:55, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Container formats may well not be new but they will be new to most people coming to this page.Dejvid 17:49, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Ogg compatible hardware players
This list doesn't belong in the article. It should be merged with hardware list at Vorbis, or the one at the Xiph wiki.

 * Cowon iAudio M3      -  20gb to 40gb harddrive
 * Cowon iAudio U2      - 256mb to  1gb flashdrive
 * Cowon iAudio G3      - 256mb to  1gb flashdrive
 * Cowon iAudio 5   - 256mb to  2gb flashdrive
 * Cowon iAudio X5      -  20gb to 60gb harddrive
 * Cowon iAudio M5      -          20gb harddrive
 * Cowon iAudio F1      - 512mb to  2gb flashdrive
 * Cowon iAudio U3      - 512mb to  2gb flashdrive
 * Cowon iAudio 6       -           4gb harddrive
 * iriver H100 series          -  20gb to 40gb harddrive
 * iriver H300 series          -  20gb to 40gb harddrive
 * iriver iFP-700 Series - 128mb to 1gb flashdrive
 * iriver iFP-800 Series - 128mb to 1gb flashdrive
 * iriver iFP-900 Series - 256mb to 1gb flashdrive
 * IOPS Z5          - 512mb to  1gb flashdrive
 * Mpio ONE             - 256mb to  1gb flashdrive
 * Mpio hd 200          -           5gb harddrive
 * Mpio hd 300          -  20gb to 40gb harddrive
 * Neuros jukebox   - 256mb to 20gb flashdrive/harddrive
 * Neuros II            - 256mb to 60gb flashdrive/harddrive
 * RioVolt SP250 (but you'll need to install the iriver firmware) - CD
 * Rio Karma        -          20gb harddrive
 * Samsung YP-C1    - 256mb to  1gb flashdrive
 * Samsung YP-MT6       - 256mb to  1gb flashdrive
 * Samsung YP-T6        - 256mb to  1gb flashdrive
 * Samsung YP-T7        - 256mb to  1gb flashdrive
 * Samsung YH-J70       - 20gb to 30gb harddrive

MIME type
Does someone know what the rationale is for having a single MIME type for all OGG files? Isn't the purpose of MIME types to convey as much information about the type of file as possible? With Ogg being a container format, the fact that something is "application/ogg" doesn't say much. We now have Theora videos on Commons, all of which have the same MIME type as the Vorbis sound files. How am I meant to tell Firefox to use mplayer for the Theora videos, and XMMS for the sounds, especially as all have the same extension as well?--Eloquence* 03:24, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Along the same lines, why is  the only registered MIME type for Ogg data? The  media type hasn't been registered with IANA for Vorbis or Speex or any other Ogg audio. Nor has  been [registered] for Theora or any other Ogg video. Brianary (talk) 14:40, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

 * They are in the middle of the registration process. It's taken a bit more time than it should because, half-way through said process, some people decided it would be a good idea to have the "codecs" parameter available.  The discussion to get its use right is taking a bit more time.  In a month or so, they will be finally registered, so please don't go overboard with your UNREGISTERED edits.
 * application/ogg was registered in 2003 as the Ogg media type. Several discussions last year, however, made Xiph decide to register video/ogg and audio/ogg as well.  They are not only for Theora and Vorbis, though, but for all worldwisde codecs (Ogg can have anything inside).  Anyway, read the RFC draft for more details.-- Ivo  talk / contribs (join Project Portugal) 15:59, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

When did it start?
The article says, "At its inception, the Ogg project was thought to be somewhat ambitious given the power of the PC hardware of the time" without actually saying when the project began, making the statement highly ambiguous. Theshibboleth 11:56, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Could someone please add more to History of Ogg?
I reckon it lacks many things, like when did development start, among others. If there's an editor with good knowledge on this issue, please improve that section. --Saoshyant 15:13, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't work
On Wikipedia, this stupid file is everywhere. If I want to play a sound, its in .ogg! Try a more conventional file, ok? Like .avi .mid or anything normal. My computer doesn't read this file. -71.224.24.99 19:55, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Did you read the Media help (Ogg) article that's suggested at the top of this page? The page explains how to play Ogg Vorbis files. Did you actually read the article to understand why Wikipedia uses this format? I suggest you actually read the articles you're replying to before you make such ignorant comments. And BTW, the sentence "my computer doesn't read this file" is total nonsense. Your computer has nothing to do with it. — J. M. 22:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Although his or her comments might sound ignorant to you, he raises a good point that you should not so easily dismiss: .ogg is not a format that is normally familiar to the basic computer user. Perhaps this should be considered a hurdle that wikipedia should try its best to overcome--especially if users are prone to getting frustrated with it and don't know how to seek out the information on how to use the files. 100DashSix 02:00, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That's why there is the help page that explains how to play the files (what more could you ask for?), and that's why there is the explanation at the top of this page. I consider it rude when someone posts a complaint "I don't know what to do with XY!" directly to a page that explains what to do with XY. They didn't even bother to read the page they're replying to. Also, Wikipedia uses the format for good reasons (almost everything else in the multimedia field is patented, proprietary and not accessible to everyone on any platform). And it is explained in the articles, too. Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia and its contents are freely available to anyone. Wikipedia uses open formats. It cannot use closed, proprietary, patented formats. And anyone can play Ogg Vorbis files — even if it doesn't work "out of the box" on their operating systems, they can easily install software that can handle the format. The software is freely available to anyone and installation instructions are available in the Wikipedia pages, too. So all you have to do is understand it and accept it. Or, if you understand it but still don't like it, there are closed, proprietary encyclopedias for people who prefer proprietary closed solutions. —J. M. 04:19, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

 * ".ogg is not a format that is normally familiar to the basic computer user. Perhaps this should be considered a hurdle that wikipedia should try its best to overcome". Perhaps this is a hurdle that Wikipedia users should try their best to overcome? After all, ignorance should be fought, not promoted. I'm sick and tired of having to "defend" free software/open formats/free standards from the despise of ignorant slaves of proprietary formats. If you can not play Ogg Vorbis files it is your friggin' problem, not Wikipedia's. Vorbis is free, and anyone can get a player (for free, if they so will), unlike proprietary formats like MP3. — isilanes (talk|contribs) 17:02, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, instructions how to play Ogg Vorbis files are included in the Wikipedia articles. So if the users ignore them and complain that they can't play the files without even reading the instructions that are written there, that's inexcusable behaviour and they have no right to complain. —J. M. 17:50, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

 * "Perhaps this is a hurdle that Wikipedia users should try their best to overcome?...If you can not play Ogg Vorbis files it is your friggin' problem." In other words, you're saying that Wikipedia should do nothing to predict who its audience might be, and has no responsibility to make it as easy as possible for its audience to access its media? I see no reason why both users and Wikipedia should not try their hardest to overcome the problem. Anyway, I do know the information exists on how to play these files, but not everyone knows how to get it, as shown by the original poster. I was just asking if there is a better way that things can be done, either in terms of audio format or in the way that the information is presented. Sorry, I didn't know that asking these sorts of questions means that I am an "ignorant slave of proprietary formats." Oh, and MP3 players are not only free, but the most popular operating systems can handle them out of the box. 100DashSix 01:58, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * MP3 players are free, but the most popular operating systems they run on are not. They can handle MP3 out of the box because their users paid for them, which in turn enables the operating system makers to pay MP3 licensing fees and therefore include out-of-the-box MP3 playback in their products. There are free operating systems (such as various Linux distributions) that cannot offer MP3 playback out of the box because MP3 is a non-free, patented format. This is why Wikipedia uses free formats, which are freely accessible to anyone (assuming they have a computer). Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia. If it used closed, patented formats, that that would deny its essence, everything Wikipedia is based on. So if you don't like Vorbis audio in Wikipedia, you are free to use some other, closed encyclopedia that uses closed formats. And since Wikipedia is an open encyclopedia, it means its contents are created by anyone who is interested in contributing. So if you feel some information (such as Ogg Vorbis playback instructions) is missing or not sufficient, go ahead and add it. That's the way Wikipedia works. So just take it or leave it. —J. M. 03:05, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I AM ^&*BAD WORD&*(*( MAD and frustrated. Can someone please help me upload a a recording I just made for the Gloria, more specifically the gregorian chant Image:Gloria 5 (init).png. Best regards. --CyclePat (talk) 01:48, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

HAHAHAHAH! 5 hours later and I figured out how to upload the file in OGG formate. Just check the image link aforementioned for more information. Wikipedia truly sucks when it comes to being able to upload stuff! Truly... --CyclePat (talk) 03:25, 7 April 2008 (UTC) There is no good reason NOT to use ogg when given the chance. Technically, mp3 is already outdated by the AAC format. Ogg generally stores files in better quality then mp3, and uses less space. It is available to everyone, as is built into most audio player, such as Winamp. Coolgamer (talk) 22:01, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I would like to point out that it is not available to anyone. You must realize that many, and by many I mean most, corporations use Windows software and do not allow employees to install additional software without approval. Many schools operate under similar rules, and doing so violates the Terms of Usage for many students. So by only using .ogg as the only sound file for Wikipedia, your discriminating against a large number of potential users. Im not saying dump ogg. but maybe what wikipedia needs is a built in audio player that does not require a user to download or install software. The stated institutions are extremely concerned about the saftey of their networks. Also, its seems Wikipedia is in effect supporting Vorbis. Shouldnt an encyclopedia be neutral to all formats, propietary or not? A truely "free" encyclopeida should be usable without having to download software, free or not. "And anyone can play Ogg Vorbis files — even if it doesn't work "out of the box" on their operating systems, they can easily install software that can handle the format. " The bottom line is, no they all can't. Xcalibur27 (talk) 18:43, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is available to anyone. The fact that some people decide not to use it does not mean it is not available to them. It only means they decided not to use it. It is their choice. They have a choice. Also, there is a difference between using patent-free (at least hopefully, you can never be sure about that) formats and patent-encumbered formats. Wikipedia is a free encyclopedia (supported by a non-profit foundation and constantly in need of money to cover its operating costs) and cannot use patent-encumbered formats that require paying licensing fees. Free formats are freely available to anyone (again, the fact that not everyone decides to use them does not change it). No, a free encyclopdia cannot be neutral to all formats, priprietary or not. In fact, using free formats is neutral, because they are freely available to anyone, regardless of their platform, operating system, application software, race, religion and so on. (And you do not have to install software in Microsoft Windows to be able to play Ogg Vorbis files. There are many programs that can be run without installation.)—J. M. (talk) 19:17, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I would take no issue with other free license, non-proprietary formats being offered with (but not instead of) ogg vorbis. The irony in your point, though, is the idea that it's not discrimination to prohibit employees and other people's kids from using free technology, while it is to offer it exclusively. It's just backwards logic if viewed objectively.. ioeln (talk) 11:03, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Xcalibur27 is correct, Ogg is not usable by people in corporations and schools in the USA, due to it not being in general distribution on the major platforms. There is no 'choice' in that matter, but it really makes no difference, because schools and corporations do not use Wikipedia. By its nature Wikipedia is not a reliable reference source, and as such is not validated by those organizations for any credible citations, so those in the aforementioned institutions will not miss hearing ogg sound bytes. Thus it is left to the 'at home user' to equip their home computer with ogg capability, as that user is the only one who might care to hear the ogg sound bytes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.135.154.254 (talk) 08:05, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Firstly, Wikipedia is here for anyone who is interested in reading it, your personal opinion about its usefulness, reliability and target audience is just pure speculation that's irrelevant here. Secondly, yes, the choice is there. Corporations have decided not to install Ogg-capable software on their computers, and employess decided to work for them. Voluntarily. It was their free decision, their choice. They had and have a choice. Ogg-capable software is freely available to anyone and the fact that someone consciously refuses to use it does not mean they do not have the choice to use it. When I give you a hundred dollars for free and you reject the offer, it does not mean I did not offer you anything.—J. M. (talk) 01:30, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

J.M. On a Windows XP SP2 PC, from the front page today on japanese cicada's "Sorry, your system does not appear to have any supported player software. Please download a player." So no, it is not on all Windows PC's. And while "There is no 'choice' in that matter, but it really makes no difference, because schools and corporations do not use Wikipedia. By its nature Wikipedia is not a reliable reference source, and as such is not validated by those organizations for any credible citations, so those in the aforementioned institutions will not miss hearing ogg sound bytes" has some credible points, i.e. no wikipeida is not a reliable source. I have heard quite the opposite for elementary and middle school teachers, and even some high school teachers. All of whom dont require the stricter codes that universities or professionals use. So it does matter to them. I realize I am fighting an uphill battle, and am in a huge minority, but if no one ever stood up for the "little guy" nothing would ever change. Now, J.M., your telling me, little Sally, who is in 6th grade, who dosent have a computer at home, who has to use either the computer at the library or at school, has a choice, because they dont allow her to install the needed software? Its not her choice she does not own a computer. It is not her choice that those are her only two options. I am sorry but it seems to me that the spriit of wikipeida is to provide a free online encyclopedia, whom anyone can use to find information on (accuracy is irrelavant), and who can also add their knoweldge too. This would mean that anyone, who can get on any computer, should be able to type in wikipedia.org, and be able to fully access everything. Regardless if they have a system admisistrator who wont allow for the installation of a 3rd party program. As long as they have internet and a browser, than they should be able to fully access this site. Maybe I am wrong, and all of wikipedia shouldnt be available to everyone.Xcalibur27 (talk) 17:45, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Xcalibur27, I understand that you think to fight the right battle. The truth is that you aren't. The fact that free formats are the best way to ensure access and availability to everyone is just that: a fact. That's not because I think so, but because it's a widespread opinion from an informatics, legislative and "user rights" point of view. From an informatics point of view, using a STANDARD unencumbered by patents is the only way to guarantee that everyone will have the possibility to make a software that can read the standard without paying royalties. This maximizes the probability that every user of every software (O.S., browser, ...) will have the possibility to access the content encoded in that standard. From a legal point of view the STANDARD unencumbered by patents guarantee that none will have the possibility to destroy "undesired" software or competitors submerging them in tons of legal expenses (given enough money I can ruin you even if you're right). From a "user rights" point of view the possibility to know the structure of the information empowers the users and gives them the "right" to use several useful tools (for example screen readers for blind people). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.37.242.46 (talk) 21:07, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
 * If I follow the Wikipedia mindset on video (and audio) and to take the example of Sally the 6th grader further, in Wikipedia's ideal world, Sally likely wouldn't be able to access Wikipedia on her school's computer because it was likely purchased from a proprietary manufacturer. I'm not aware of any open source computer manufacturers at the moment, though realize if you intend to start one, Wikipedia will want certification that no proprietary components are part of it.  Even if somehow Sally's school's computer passes that muster, she will not be able to turn it on if the power comes from a for-profit, proprietary energy company.  Perhaps if she lives where there is a municipally-owned power company, she will be OK.  But check if she took the bus to school, and if the vendor that won the contract to provide buses is proprietary.  Basically, if Sally walks to school wearing hand made clothes, after eating a breakfast consistingly only of food grown in the community, on dirt roads so no proprietary asphalt mixture is used, then at school she will be able to see video/audio on wikipedia at school, which somehow has a computer lab in a society which has otherwise abandoned all advances of the past century or more due to them being 'proprietary'.  I would call these ogg-pushers view dystopian, but I do not wish to offend any current or future residents of dystopias.Cander0000 (talk) 05:49, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Pronounciation
I thought I saw a pronounciation of "Ogg" on this article before. It should be included again if it was removed or added if it was never there. --70.111.218.254 14:24, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Plugins?
http://records.tastytronic.net/ogg.html

Patents in OGG?
Hi. According to a WIRED article, many companies do not use OGG because of the possibility of parts of it being covered by other patents. Any info's on that? --Chris 73 | Talk 11:44, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

 * You read the wired article too? - I went here to investigate. I'll make a small addendum about this. Bfg 10:09, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I think the section properly belongs to the Vorbis article, as Ogg is just the container, not the audio codec. —J. M. 16:22, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree and disagree, the claims are directed against Vorbis, although the consequences are suffered by the entire project. Bfg 12:02, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

is "patent-free" appropriate language

 * There was a recent article on slashdot which suggests that Nokia claims that Ogg is a proprietary format. Nokia's position paper can be found here.

Anon 15:45, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Nokia's position is FUD. Check the facts for yourself if you rather think with your own head instead of letting corporations with veiled interests do the thinking for you.  Theora and Vorbis are patent-free, royalty-free, and "open source" formats, AKA free formats.-- Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves  talk / contribs (join WP:PT) 16:41, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

 * You should back up your claim with at least a single proof, otherwise there is no reason to take it seriously. Saying "it is a free format, period" lacks reasoning. There have been suspicions that there are 3rd party patents covering techniques in both Vorbis and Theora – if you claim there are facts that show it is not true, then you could certainly show us those facts instead of saying "it is not true because I say so, check the facts for yourself". —J. M. (talk) 17:02, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Maybe that came out wrong. I told those interested in the subject to investigate.  Actually reading Nokia's statement is a start; they don't provide any evidence of whatsoever, they make several misconceptions like that Ogg technologies aren't royalty-free and that the Ogg container cannot have DRM.  Those are very wrong statements.

 * On the subject of Theora, its patents have been negotiated in contract between Xiph and On2 to allow royalty-free use by anyone and anything, not to mention that the Theora specification is on the public domain. It _is_ a free format.  Vorbis on the other hand has no known patents: it uses only compression schemes whose patents have already expired.  Vorbis is also on the public domain.  Theora, Vorbis, and Ogg are backed up by important organizations like OLPC, Wikimedia Foundation, the FSF, and even companies like Mozilla.  Many companies have made private patent searches in Ogg technologies only to come out and start supporting it and, while I can't add to the main article because we would have no references, why don't you contact AOL/Time Warner?  The industry knows they did one of those patent searches when it came to consider supporting some of Xiph formats in Winamp.

 * Of course there's always a risk that there may be submarine patents as the patent system is heavily flawed. However, that risk does not exist alone for Theora, Vorbis, or Ogg, but also for all of MPEG-4, MP3, WMV/A, and others.  When it comes to submarine patents, you can never be sure regarding any of those, but the Xiph formats are so far the better bet.-- Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves  talk / contribs (join WP:PT) 22:59, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

 * That's exactly the point – you can never be sure. The fact that the contract between Xiph and On2 allows royalty-free use by anyone does not mean the format is patent-free. It simply means that any possible patents used in Theora owned by On2 are free to use. But that does not mean Theora does not use any patented methods of video compression (i.e. patents owned by 3rd parties). In fact, a developer from the MPlayer team (who is obviously quite knowledgeable about these things) once said that Theora uses basically the same techniques used in MPEG-1 and therefore basically all MPEG-1 patents apply to Theora, too. Now, I am not saying it is true (I don't really know), but unless someone proves this is not true, noone can simply say "Theora is patent-free, period". Because in the world of patents, you can never know. So yes, it is the better bet among various formats, but that's all. —J. M. (talk) 23:47, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * As much as the US patent system is a complete failure, especially regarding software (which is obviously copyright, and not patent, territory), there is apparently no valid patent against Vorbis (ogg being only the container, it stands as "previous art" by itself for any future attempted patent grab). Wired is an, erm "interesting" source for IT-related news, much as "news of the world" is an "interesting" source for Astrophysics. So *even* in the US, Vorbis should be safe (and that's saying something). In any country where the patent system rely on actual innovation (i.e. earth, bar the USA), Vorbis and its ogg container are fully free (as in Ti Punch) and free (as in "open source"). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.21.113.123 (talk) 20:46, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Theora is based on VP3, which is patented. Xiph.org have permission to use those patents and distribute Theora royalty-free. If there were valid EARLIER patents for the same technologies as VP3, then the USPTO should NOT have issued the VP3 patents to On2. If there are LATER patents for the same technologies as VP3, then the patents on VP3 trump the later ones. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.20.20.129 (talk) 01:10, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Identification of data formats
A crucial piece of information omitted from this article is where the information about the individual data streams is stored. How does a program reading an OGG file know that, e.g., it contains a single channel of linear PCM audio data or two channels of Ogg Vorbis compressed audio data, or whatever? Bill 20:29, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

File Extension
Could someone write a sentence or two on Xiphs harebrained decision to have one common file extension for all possible contents of Oggs (unlike e.g. m4a, mp4, m4v etc.) I can't write it myself, because, well, it probably wouldn't quite meet Wikipedia NPOV standards:

I don't want to open movies in winamp. I just d/led a video clip from another wikipedia entry and had to rename it (to ogm; they may not strictly be the same but close enough, and Tobias Whatshisname at least doesn't hate his users, unlike Xiph and Wikimedia), a completely unnecessary step and sure to confuse average users who have no fucking clue what a container format is, nor an interest in finding out (and rightfully so).

I really don't see why you should need hacks/helper applications or other overengineered ways to distinguish audio from video files when Windows provides a perfectly fine way of doing so, just because some idiots look at the code ("it's the same kind of file *whinewhine*") instead of the function ("no it isn't fucktards, the one is an audio file, the other a video file"). Thx 82.135.85.226 19:53, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

 * It's probably cheaper for you to get a Wikipedia user name than it is for you to buy a real OS, but I'd recommend both. Chris Cunningham 19:59, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Please be so kind to explain in plain English what you desire. You're right about one thing, you are not NPOV, nevertheless adjectives like "fucking" and "harebrained" don't make me or anybody for that matter especially inclined to meet your request. BTW, the word "fucktards" is new to me, I get it's a negative one, but I honestly don't understand it. Please make a request in a civil manner and I promise you I'll consider it. Bfg 15:25, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

 * While the original poster of this section was rather rude and agressive (btw fucktards can be taken to be roughly synonomous to retards but with the more agressive tone that swearing adds) he is indeed bringing up one of the most common criticisms of ogg that i see which is that basing the file extention on the container format is a bad idea. File extentions while imperfect (the biggest issue is that they are generally very short due to a convention that dates back to the 8.3 days meaning that conflicts are very common) are the closest thing most systems have to filetype metadata and from the users perspective an audio file and a video file are very different things. Yes its possible to grab filetype info from the file itself but the dominant OS has little if any support for doing so (you'd probablly need a custom shell extention) and it is comparatively slow to read every file. As for wikimedia they are stuck between a rock and a hard place on this one. If they use the ogg extention they will make life difficult for those who want audio and video treated differently. If they use ogm then they won't play on systems that don't support tobais's nonstandard extentions. 130.88.116.93 13:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC) Plugwash 13:42, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm sorry, this thing just really gets me going, and I think rightfully so. If you're on a system that identifies files by magic numbers or something then why use an extension at all?
 * If on the other hand you don't want to leave 90% of your audience out in the rain and use an extension anyway, you could show poor Windows users some love.
 * The current Xiph system of calling everything .ogg, does
 * Windows users are not poor. How could they be when they can afford a £68.98 operating system! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.202.179.68 (talk) 14:21, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
 * (a) take the de facto standard and subtly subvert it to make it incompatible with the predominant implementation. Microsoft does stuff like this, too; but they do it to crush the competition and to herald the reign of Satan, while I'm not quite sure what Xiph intends to achieve.
 * (b) make it harder for the user, not just on Windows. It makes it difficult to sort and move large numbers of files in a unix shell, because you effectively have to decide for each file by hand what's in it (even if they use the .theora.ogg etc versions below, you'd have to write a script that differentiates all possible combinations of theora, vorbis and ogg, and that's in the best case scenario that everyone actually uses these extensions)
 * (c) offer absolutely no advantage at all AFAIK.
 * On the ogm problem: They wouldn't have to actually use Tobias' implementation. The important thing is that .ogm would be associated with a video player and therefore play the ogg correctly (as neither dshow nor vlc or mplayer/xine etc. look at the extension when creating the filter-chain but parse the file itself) if the user has the necessary filter. How about .ogv? Is that used by something important? Or .oggvideo, iirc Windows supports more than 3 letters since 95/NT.
 * (argh, they're not the only ones who were late. Had I read the draft before writing this, it would have become a lot shorter. Apparently .ogv is the future. It's imho 5 years overdue but I know that it's sometimes hard to overturn old decisions and I congratulate them on biting the bullet. I hope it becomes official soon :)
 * And last but not least: I still think the decision was harebrained, the fucking wasn't part of any insult and didn't even the courts acknowledge some time ago that "fuck" lost a lot of its bite? :) I *did* call them idiots which was not nice, but posts like this one are imho borderline whining (not that my original post wouldn't qualify, too :P) and idiotic. But I'd like to take back the fucktard. 82.135.1.13 21:52, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

There is a draft of a Xiph recommendation to make more extensions (all but FLAC are 3-letter…). I myself am using extensions like “.theora.ogg“, “.theora+vorbis.ogg”, etc. for now. If this requires an article, there was one somewhere (don't remember - probably Slashdot or linux.org.ru). - AVRS 16:13, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, looks like it was at http://vorbis.org.ru/ (in Russian), but the site doesn't load right now - AVRS 16:24, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Some software such as Handbrake are already utelizing .ogm for video.

 * Then that Handbrake thing is misbehaving. All video on Ogg is to use .ogv from now on.  .ogm is not part of any official Xiph/Ogg project — it exists to make a distinction between Ogg files with patented MPEG-4 video on them and those that don't.-- Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves  talk / contribs (join WP:PT) 16:32, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
 * file extensions are arguably the dullest way ever invented to identify filetype. Only one (1) OS still uses that as its main file type recognition, and you may call it XP, Vista or 7.smthg, it's still at least technically 10 years late. Its parent company, on the other hand, is good at marketting. so please, people, sod file extensions and use proper input validation instead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.21.113.123 (talk) 21:22, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Metadata
Can someone please clean up my new metadata section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.202.179.68 (talk) 14:18, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

The Metadata section seems to be totally out of date as is suggested in the section itself. I skimmed through the metadata wiki page, it suggests that M3F (Mulitmedia Metadata Format) is for the Ogg Container which aims to provide metadata for media streams(relevant link)

I am not really sure how to revise/re-structure the section according to the present reality. It did be nice if someone takes up the job of re-constructing the section, I am ready to help.

R.Siddharth (talk) 14:10, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

Page design
It might be an issue with the used infobox that logo is not displayed, so I added it as "icon". However, somebody with more knowledge about formating may try to fix the "infobox file format"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Antonski (talk • contribs) 14:06, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

How do I get words to pronounce in wiktionary.org?
I'm trying to use wikitionary.org. I can lookup words, but when I click on the little speaker icon, an .ogg file downloads instead of playing a sound.

Do I need to install a plugin in my FireFox 3.0?

The word "mom" in wiktionary.org]

Kaydell (talk) 04:57, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Nope, just upgrade to Firefox 3.5 ;) With 3.5 you can play those files without plugins in the browser. Thelennonorth (talk) 20:00, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Visual Basic Accuracy
It's been quite a while since I've used VB, but I do remember calling functions and subroutines from DLLs... I don't see why VB programmers would have to wait for an OCX to be released. Furthermore, I don't see how that entire section is even relevant. It's discussing a supposed limitation of Visual Basic that really has nothing to do with OGG. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.169.74.237 (talk) 14:50, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

I would tend to agree with the above regarding VB. It most likely refers to VB6, which does indeed have the ability to call DLLs or incorporate OCX controls. There are conceivable technical reasons why an OCX might be preferable to a DLL interface for VB6, I guess. However, VB6 is obsolescent and these days "Visual Basic" is just as likely to refer to VB.NET, a much more capable and complex product which has virtually all the functionality of C#. I'd agree that the VB6 paragraph is irrelevant in the context of this article. Rob Burbidge (talk) 14:17, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

History section needs updating
I have added the Update template to the History section as it needs to be rewritten to reflect RFC 5334, published in September 2008. -Paul1337 (talk) 14:12, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Non-copylefted
I don't know enough about this area, but should the phrase 'non copylefted' not actually read either 'copylefted' or 'non copyrighted'? I'd suggest avoiding the term copylefted, because I don't think it is widely enough known (amoung non-wikipedia editors of course!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thelem (talk • contribs) 00:31, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, this statement doesn't make any sense. Doesn't 'non-copylefted = copyright?' Switchbladesista (talk) 21:30, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree "non-copylefted" is not a precise name, however, in this context "non-copylefted" means a program not subject to the restrictions normally associated with "copyleft", in particluar, the "share-alike" or "you can't make closed-source things based on this". It is also wrong to equate "non-copyleft = copyright" as something "copylefted" is still 100% copyrighted, but simply with special clauses. Examples of non-copyleft would be Photoshop, a program under a BSD license, or a program in the public domain. --SF007 (talk) 23:28, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

HTML5?
I would like to learn more about the debate to include ogg in the HTML5 standard. There is a whole article here Ogg_controversy, but there should be a little in this article or at least a link, methinks. I'm not too computer literate, and don't feel comfortable making those changes myself.--Lightenoughtotravel (talk) 16:52, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Editing OGG files?
Wish the article would speak to editing OGG files. Is OGG the 'purest' 'open' format for video? If not, then perhaps such could be added as related link? I realize that OGG is a container, but it is also listed on this wiki as _the_ preferred format for uploading video, so hopefully this question isn't too out of place on this discussion page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.217.148.21 (talk) 04:49, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Removed section "Tools"
I removed a new section "Tools" added by user PaulBreadly, because it was not appropriate. User PaulBreadly added his section "Tools" with some shareware software and this contribution looks like an advertising. This user added the same software to several other articles (such as MPEG, AVI, 3GP, QuickTime and others) - see PaulBreadly's contributions. I think, there are also other free software converters and editors, not only shareware (see also Vorbis, Theora). I also think, there are other appropriate articles on Wikipedia about audio and video software - e.g. List of video editing software, Comparison of video editing software, Comparison of video encoders. --89.173.65.226 (talk) 08:48, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Bit too much of a love in
This article really seems biased, and doesn't even mention the fact that ogg has serious issues. It seems half of this talk page is about trying to convince people to use the format (wikipedia is not a political movement). The fact that something is patent free doesn't make it good.

From the table of contents from mp3:
 * 1) 10 Licensing and patent issues
 * 2) 11 Security issues
 * 3) 12 Alternative technologies

There's a lot of negativity. There's not even a criticisms section in this article, and there are a lot of criticisms of this format.

--wbFrontier —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.173.105.170 (talk) 22:07, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Dirac video
Shouldn't dirac be added as a video format ? There is a spec for dirac in ogg, and it is supported by some players, e.g. vlc. I am going to go ahead and add it. If anybody disagrees they can remove it. Salsa man (talk) 13:57, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

why isn't mogg mentioned?
why isn't mogg mentioned (multitrack ogg, which I've seen used by pirates for rips of songs off rockband and such) I'm sure on the technical side it's just an audio file with more than 2 channels (one for each instrument) but I still think it should be mentioned — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.68.131.138 (talk) 06:25, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Ogg 2 MP3
what is needed is a way of users to be able to download Ogg files in MP3 format. Not everyone wants to install drivers for this obscure format no one uses apart from Wikipedia. 87.112.127.60 (talk) 22:59, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Upload?_e_pi_=7%2CPAGE_ID10%2C8624195026 Zinou Lizou (talk) 22:18, 8 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 5 one external links on Ogg. Please take a moment to review my edit. You may add after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for //www.xiph.org/ogg/doc/vorbis.html
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for //www.xiph.org/ogg/doc/oggstream.html
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for //www.xiph.org/ogg/index.html
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for //www.xiph.org/ogg/index.html
 * Attempted to fix sourcing for //www.xiph.org/ogg/index.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 06:11, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
 * WFM. All those broken original references could be updated to current working references, but the archived URLs are okay. Be..anyone (talk) 06:01, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Ogg. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit User:Cyberpower678/FaQs for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.xiph.org/container/ogm.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 20:47, 15 June 2016 (UTC)

Usage in Android
Ogg is a default format for alarms, notifications, ringtones and UI sounds in the Android OS phones, at least from Google, Samsung and LG. This format is supported in all Android versions. Should it be mentioned in the article? Yaroslav --109.252.109.131 (talk) 15:55, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ogg


text:
Talk:January 9

WP:ARBMAC issue on this page
There seems to be a question about whether this event is a holiday or observance and seems to be smack-dab in the middle of WP:ARBMAC. Apparently the country has eliminated the holiday but the factions don't agree. The question is, should it be in this list and is it properly cited? Toddst1 (talk) 21:51, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:January 9


text:
Rainbow (rock band)

Rainbow (also known as Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow or Blackmore's Rainbow) are a British-American rock band formed in London and Los Angeles in 1975 by guitarist Ritchie Blackmore. Established in the aftermath of Blackmore's first departure from Deep Purple, they originally featured four members of the band Elf, including their singer Ronnie James Dio, but after their self-titled debut album, Blackmore fired these members, except Dio, recruiting drummer Cozy Powell, bassist Jimmy Bain and keyboardist Tony Carey. This line-up recorded the band's second album Rising (1976), while Long Live Rock 'n' Roll (1978) saw Bob Daisley and David Stone replace Bain and Carey, respectively. Long Live Rock 'n' Roll was also the last album with Dio before he left the band to join Black Sabbath in 1979.

Rainbow's early work primarily used mystical lyrics with a hard rock/heavy metal style, then went in a more pop-rock oriented direction following Dio's departure from the group. In 1979, Blackmore and Powell revamped the group, recruiting three new members—singer Graham Bonnet, keyboardist Don Airey and another then-former Deep Purple member, bassist Roger Glover—and this line-up gave the band their commercial breakthrough with the single "Since You Been Gone" from their fourth studio album Down to Earth. With Joe Lynn Turner, who replaced Bonnet in 1980, Rainbow recorded three more albums—Difficult to Cure (1981), Straight Between the Eyes (1982) and Bent Out of Shape (1983)—that had commercial success similar to the band's previous albums. Other members of the band during this period were drummers Bobby Rondinelli and Chuck Burgi and keyboardist David Rosenthal. The band split in 1984, when Blackmore and Glover re-joined Deep Purple. In 1993, after leaving Deep Purple for a second time, Blackmore reformed Rainbow with a new line-up, fronted by a then-unknown Doogie White, which recorded their eighth and last studio album to date Stranger in Us All (1995). Blackmore's change in direction, from rock to Renaissance and medieval-influenced music, led to Rainbow's second dissolution in 1997. He revived the band once again in 2015, and they performed live occasionally within the next few years.

Over the years Rainbow went through many personnel changes, with each studio album recorded with a different line-up, leaving Blackmore as the band's only constant member. Their longest serving lineup—which featured Blackmore on guitar, Blackmore's wife Candice Night on backing vocals, Ronnie Romero on lead vocals, Bob Nouveau on bass, David Keith on drums and Jens Johansson on keyboards—lasted from 2015 to 2023, when Romero announced his departure from the band.

Rainbow were ranked No. 90 on VH1's 100 Greatest Artists of Hard Rock. The band have sold over 28 million records worldwide.

Formation (1975)
In 1973, Blackmore steered Deep Purple through a significant personnel change, with Ian Gillan and Roger Glover being replaced by David Coverdale and Glenn Hughes. However, the new members were keen to add their own musical influences into the band's sound, some of which were not to Blackmore's taste. During the sessions for the 1974 album Stormbringer, Blackmore found his request to record the Steve Hammond-penned "Black Sheep of the Family" turned down by the band. On the subsequent tour, Deep Purple were supported by American band Elf, with Blackmore being especially impressed by their singer Ronnie James Dio. Still wishing to put his interpretation of "Black Sheep of the Family" to record, he decided to record the song as a single, accompanied by four members of Elf, Dio, bassist Craig Gruber, drummer Gary Driscoll, and keyboardist Mickey Lee Soule. The sessions went so well that a full album began to take shape, with Blackmore and Dio collaborating on original songs. The album, Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow, was recorded between February and March 1975 at Musicland Studios in Munich, Germany. The band name was inspired by the Rainbow Bar and Grill in West Hollywood, California.

The style was partly inspired by classical music since Blackmore had started playing cello to help him construct interesting chord progressions, and Dio's lyrics reflected medieval themes and imagery. Dio possessed a powerful and versatile vocal range that encompassed hard rock and lighter ballads. Blackmore commented that when he heard Dio sing, "I felt shivers down my spine." Although Dio never played a musical instrument on any Rainbow album, he is credited with writing and arranging the music with Blackmore, in addition to writing all the lyrics. Blackmore and Dio also found a common ground in their sense of humour. The band, said the singer, "was my opportunity to show my wares. I thank Ritchie for that all the time. Ritchie Blackmore is the one who gave me my opportunity to show what I was worth."

Following the positive experience of recording with Dio, Blackmore decided to leave Deep Purple, playing his last show with them in Paris in April 1975. The album met a positive critical reception and was a top 20 UK and top 30 US hit. Blackmore's departure from Purple was announced on 21 June.

First world tour and initial success (1975–1978)
Blackmore was unhappy about carrying the Elf line-up along for live performances, and so after Mickey Lee Soule quit the band, he fired the remaining members except Dio, unhappy with Driscoll's style of drumming and the funky bass playing of Gruber. Blackmore would continue to dictate personnel for the remainder of the band's lifetime, with drummer and former bandmate Ricky Munro remarking "he was very difficult to get on with because you never knew when he would turn around and say 'You're sacked'." Blackmore recruited bassist Jimmy Bain, keyboard player Tony Carey and drummer Cozy Powell, who had previously worked with Jeff Beck and had some solo success. Powell also greatly appealed to Blackmore in their mutual fondness for practical jokes.

This line-up commenced the first world tour for the band, with the first date in Montreal on 10 November 1975. The centrepiece of the band's live performance was a computer-controlled rainbow including 3,000 lightbulbs, which stretched 40 feet across the stage. In 1976, the band's name was shortened to Rainbow, and a second album, Rising, was recorded in February at Musicland. By the time of the European dates in the summer of 1976, Rainbow's reputation as a blistering live act had been established. The band added Deep Purple's "Mistreated" to their setlist, and song lengths were stretched to include improvisation, as displayed on the live album On Stage, released in the summer of 1977. Carey recalls rehearsing the material was fairly straightforward, saying "We didn't work anything out, except the structure, the ending ... very free-form, really progressive rock." The album art was designed by American fantasy artist Ken Kelly, who had drawn Tarzan and Conan the Barbarian.

In August 1976, following a gig at Newcastle City Hall, Blackmore decided to fire Carey, believing his playing style to be too complicated for the band. Unable to find a suitable replacement on such short notice, Carey was quickly reinstated, but as the world tour progressed on to Japan, he found himself regularly being the recipient of Blackmore's pranks and humour. Blackmore subsequently decided that Bain was substandard and fired him in January 1977. Carey quit the band shortly after, after getting tired of Blackmore's pranks. Blackmore, however, had difficulty finding replacements he liked. On keyboards, after auditioning several high-profile artists, including Vanilla Fudge's Mark Stein, Procol Harum's Matthew Fisher and ex-Curved Air and Roxy Music man Eddie Jobson, Blackmore finally selected Canadian David Stone, from the little-known band Symphonic Slam. For a bass player, Blackmore initially chose Mark Clarke, formerly of Jon Hiseman's Colosseum and Uriah Heep, but once in the studio for the next album, Long Live Rock 'n' Roll, Blackmore disliked Clarke's fingerstyle method of playing so much that he fired him on the spot and played bass himself on all but three songs: "Gates of Babylon", "Kill the King", and "Sensitive to Light". Former Widowmaker bassist Bob Daisley was hired to finish the album, completing the band's next line-up.

After the release of Long Live Rock 'n' Roll and its extensive world tour in 1978, Blackmore decided that he wanted to take the band in a new, more mainstream direction, away from the "sword and sorcery" themes. Dio did not agree with this change and left the band.

In a 1979 interview with Sounds, Blackmore said: "If they were good enough, they'd still be in the band. I'm not putting down the other members who were in the band, but no-one has ever left Rainbow. It's a fact. Not a confrontation just, well you didn't quite make it, you'll have to do other things."

"Ronnie is a very good singer- I still like him -but he was becoming very lackadaisical. I'm sure if he were here now he would argue the point, but the fact is, Ronnie was not contributing what he should have done, and he knows that. For the last two years I would put down the riff, the progressions, give him the basic melody and he would write the lyrics. I found that in the past year he wasn't really doing that. He was bitching about the fact that it was Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow. And I'm going, look, I've tried after three years to make it just Rainbow, not my Rainbow."

"When people leave the band we don't give too many reasons because we don't want to hinder their career. But if someone's not pulling their weight then I will not put up with someone who's second rate. I'm not going to jump onstage and say 'it's alright ladies and gentlemen, I know they're not very good but they are my friends' like most bands do."

"A couple of people in the band were taking quite a few drugs and consequently were falling asleep while they were playing because they'd been partying all night. I gave them the sack. It's incredible how those people react. They say 'how dare he do that to me?' but what have they got to offer other than looking the part?"

Commercial success (1978–1984)
Blackmore asked Ian Gillan, also formerly of Deep Purple, to replace Dio, but Gillan turned him down. After a series of auditions, Graham Bonnet, former singer/guitarist of The Marbles, was recruited. Powell stayed, but Daisley was fired, and Stone quit the band to be replaced by Powell's former bandmate Don Airey. At first the band auditioned bass players, but, at Cozy Powell's suggestion, Blackmore hired another former Deep Purple member, Roger Glover, as a producer, bassist and lyricist. The resulting album, Down to Earth, featured the band's first major singles chart successes, "All Night Long" and the Russ Ballard-penned "Since You Been Gone". In 1980, the band headlined the inaugural Monsters of Rock festival at Castle Donington in England. However, this was Powell's last Rainbow gig: he had already given his notice to quit, disliking Blackmore's increasingly pop rock direction. Then, after numerous fallouts with Blackmore, Bonnet resigned to pursue a solo project.

For the next album, Bonnet and Powell were replaced by Americans Joe Lynn Turner and Bobby Rondinelli, respectively. The title track from Difficult to Cure was a version of Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. The album spawned their most successful UK single, "I Surrender" (another Ballard song), which reached No.3. After the supporting tour, Don Airey quit over musical differences and was replaced by David Rosenthal.

The band attained significant airplay on Album-oriented rock radio stations in the US with the track "Jealous Lover", reaching No. 13 on Billboard Magazine's Rock Tracks chart. Originally issued as the B-side to "Can't Happen Here", "Jealous Lover" subsequently became the title track to an EP issued in the US that featured similar cover art to Difficult to Cure.

Rainbow's next full-length studio album was Straight Between the Eyes. The album was more cohesive than Difficult to Cure, and had more success in the United States. The band, however, was alienating some of its earlier fans with its more AOR sound. The single "Stone Cold" was a ballad that had some chart success (No. 1 on Billboard Magazine's Rock Tracks chart) and its video received heavy airplay on MTV. The successful supporting tour skipped the UK completely and focused on the American market. A date in San Antonio, Texas on this tour was filmed, and the resulting Live Between the Eyes also received repeated showings on MTV, and was released on home video.

Bent Out of Shape saw drummer Rondinelli fired in favour of former Brand X and Balance drummer Chuck Burgi. The album featured the single "Street of Dreams", which became another AOR hit for the group. Blackmore claims on his website that the song's video was banned by MTV for its supposedly controversial hypnosis theme, but Dr. Thomas Radecki of the National Coalition on Television Violence criticised MTV for airing the video, contradicting Blackmore's claim. The following tour saw Rainbow return to the UK, and also to Japan in March 1984 where the band performed "Difficult to Cure" with a full orchestra. The concert was also filmed and released on home video as Japan Tour '84.

Dissolution and temporary revival (1984–1997)
During the early 1980s, Rainbow's management Thames Talent had co-ordinated attempts to reform Deep Purple Mark II. By April 1984, Blackmore and Glover had committed to the reunion, and Rainbow was disbanded. A then-final Rainbow album, Finyl Vinyl, was released in 1986. A double live album covering the band's whole history, it also includes three stray studio B-sides, "Weiss Heim" ("All Night Long" B-side), "Bad Girl" ("Since You Been Gone" B-side), and "Jealous Lover" ("Can't Happen Here" B-side).

In 1988, after joining the band Impelliteri, Graham Bonnet covered "Since You Been Gone" on the group's debut album, Stand In Line.

In 1993, Blackmore left Deep Purple again due to "creative differences" with other members, and reformed Rainbow with all-new members featuring Scottish singer Doogie White. The band released Stranger in Us All in 1995, and embarked on a lengthy world tour.

The tour proved successful, and the show in Düsseldorf, Germany, was professionally filmed for the Rockpalast TV show. This show, initially heavily bootlegged (and considered by many collectors to be the best Rainbow bootleg of the era), was officially released by Eagle Records on CD and DVD as Black Masquerade in 2013. The live shows featured frequent changes in set lists, and musical improvisations that proved popular with bootleggers and many shows are still traded over a decade later.

However, Blackmore turned his attention to his long-time musical passion, Renaissance and medieval music. Rainbow was put on hold once again after playing its final concert in Esbjerg, Denmark in 1997. Blackmore, together with his partner Candice Night as vocalist then formed the Renaissance-influenced Blackmore's Night. Around the same time as production of Stranger in Us All (1995), they were already gearing up their debut album Shadow of the Moon (1997).

Split (1997–2014)
Many Rainbow songs have been performed live by former members of the band since the group's split in 1984 and then in 1997, particularly former frontmen Ronnie James Dio, Graham Bonnet, Joe Lynn Turner and Doogie White in recent years. Also, Don Airey often plays 1979-1981 era songs during his solo shows. Blackmore's Night occasionally performs one or two Rainbow songs live, namely "Ariel", "Rainbow Eyes", "Street of Dreams" and "Temple of the King". The latter three were also re-recorded by Blackmore's Night in studio.

In 2002–2004, the Hughes Turner Project played a number of Rainbow songs at their concerts. On 9 August 2007, Joe Lynn Turner and Graham Bonnet played a tribute to Rainbow show in Helsinki, Finland. The concert consisted of songs from the 1979-1983 era.

In 2009, Joe Lynn Turner, Bobby Rondinelli, Greg Smith and Tony Carey created the touring tribute band Over the Rainbow with Jürgen Blackmore (Ritchie's son) as the guitarist. Over the Rainbow performed songs from every era of the band's history. After the first tour, Tony Carey had to leave the band due to health concerns; he was replaced by another former Rainbow member, Paul Morris. Plans for the band to record original material were scrapped and Over the Rainbow was formally disbanded in 2011.

Revival (2015–present)
In 2015, Blackmore announced that he would play "all rock" concerts in the summer of 2016 under the banner "Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow", his first rock shows since 1997. The new Rainbow lineup was announced on 6 November 2015. It featured Lords of Black singer Ronnie Romero, Stratovarius keyboardist Jens Johansson, Blackmore's Night drummer David Keith and bassist Bob Nouveau.

The band headlined the German edition of the "Monsters of Rock" festival. They debuted on 17 June 2016 at Loreley Freilichtbühne, an open-air show in front of an audience of an estimated 15,000. On 18 June, they played another open-air gig for 30,000 fans in Bietigheim-Bissingen (Festplatz am Viadukt). The third and final show took place at the Birmingham Genting Arena in England. A live album and DVD, Memories in Rock, was released in late 2016.

When asked in May 2016 if Rainbow were planning to record a new studio album, bassist Bob Curiano said, "I'd love to go into the studio with this Rainbow. All we need is Ritchie to say, 'Let's go!' I think all of us feel under pressure, because of the fans' expectations. For me, the pressure makes me work harder and get better results." However, Blackmore said that they had no plans for a new album or world tour, and that the reunion was "just a few dates for fun." Blackmore also said that Rainbow had received many offers to do a "few more shows again" in the future.

Despite an earlier decision not to release new music, Blackmore revealed in a May 2017 interview with Burrn! magazine that Rainbow were in the studio recording two new tracks. Blackmore stated, "I wrote one new song, and also recorded one of the old ones. Ronnie, who is in Madrid now, added his vocals and sent it back. Rather than make an album, we may release as singles."

Rainbow embarked on a four-date UK tour in June 2017. It kicked off with the band's first show in London since 1995 at the second annual Stone Free Festival at The O2, followed by shows in Manchester, Glasgow and Birmingham; the Manchester show was cancelled following the Manchester Arena bombing.

Rainbow released another live album and DVD, Memories in Rock II in 2018, which chronicles a live show in Germany. The final track on the album, "Waiting for a Sign", is a studio track recorded with the current band lineup, and marked Rainbow's first song in 23 years. The band played five dates in April 2018, at Moscow, St Petersburg, Helsinki, Berlin, and Prague. The shows were well-attended, with Helsinki a sell-out. The set-list again varied from night-to-night, with an almost 50/50 selection of Rainbow and Deep Purple songs. Rainbow released another single, "The Storm", in May 2019, which was "a rocked-up remake" of Blackmore's Night's 2001 song with the same title, and the band resumed touring in Europe that summer.

The future of Rainbow has been uncertain since wrapping up their 2019 European tour. When asked in November 2020 about the current status of the band, Romero said, "Obviously, nothing's gonna happen next year. And Ritchie and Candice, they're really focused on the new Blackmore's Night record. So probably if everything comes back to normality in the next few years, probably we'll do some more shows. But at the moment, everything is on standby." In April 2022, Romero claimed that he has kept in contact with the remaining members of Rainbow, but again expressed his doubt that the band will ever tour again or record new music: "I don't think there's gonna be any plan in the near future because the pandemic was way complicated, obviously, for all the music business. And now it's like everything is getting back to normal but delayed two years. So there is a lot of shows happening. And until it gets completely back to normal, it's gonna happen at least a couple of years. So I think Ritchie is not too much into the idea to make anything so far. And he is focused right now with Blackmore's Night — they released an album recently, I think. There's no plan so far; we were not informed about any plan. So we're just waiting for… With Ritchie, you never know — maybe in a couple of days he's gonna come with an idea. You never know." In October 2023, Romero effectively confirmed his departure from the band by stating that Rainbow is "not his place anymore" while speaking positively of his time in the group.

Members
Current members
 * Ritchie Blackmore – guitar (1975–1984, 1993–1997, 2015–present)
 * Candice Night – backing vocals (1994–1997, 2015–present)
 * Jens Johansson – keyboards (2015–present)
 * Bob Nouveau – bass, backing vocals (2015–present)
 * David Keith – drums (2015–present)

Discography

 * Studio albums
 * Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow (1975)
 * Rising (1976)
 * Long Live Rock 'n' Roll (1978)
 * Down to Earth (1979)
 * Difficult to Cure (1981)
 * Straight Between the Eyes (1982)
 * Bent Out of Shape (1983)
 * Stranger in Us All (1995)

title: Rainbow (rock band)


text:
Am5x86

The Am5x86 processor is an x86-compatible CPU announced in November of 1995 by AMD for use in 486-class computer systems. It began shipping in December of 1995, with a base price of $93 per unit in bulk quantities. Before being released, it was in development under the codename "X5".

Specifications
The Am5x86 (also known as the 5x86-133, Am5x86, X5-133, and sold under various 3rd-party labels such as the Kingston Technology "Turbochip" ) is an Enhanced Am486 processor with an internally set multiplier of 4, allowing it to run at 133 MHz on systems without official support for clock-multiplied DX2 or DX4 486 processors. Like all Enhanced Am486, the Am5x86 featured write-back L1 cache, and unlike all but a few, a generous 16 kilobytes rather than the more common 8 KB. A rare 150 MHz-rated OEM part was also released by AMD.

Since having a clock multiplier of four is not part of the original Socket 3 design (and that the 486 only have a single CLKMUL pin anyway), AMD made the 5x86 accept a 2x setting from the motherboard and instead operate at a rate of 4x. When using an Am5x86, the motherboard must be set to the 2x setting. The chip will actually physically fit into an older 486 socket such as a socket 1 or 2 or the original 168-pin 80486 socket, but doing this requires a replacement voltage regulator, since the AMD chip runs at 3.45 volts.

The combination of clock speed and the relatively large 16 KB write-back L1 cache allows the 5x86 to equal or slightly exceed an Intel Pentium 75 MHz processor in integer arithmetic in benchmarks. Real world performance varies, however, with later Windows operating systems and many FPU-sensitive games favoring the Pentium 75 MHz. Because it is based on a pure 486 design, it is compatible with older systems, something its slightly faster rival, the Cyrix Cx5x86, has trouble with. The CPU is commonly overclocked to 160 MHz, thereby giving performance similar to that of a Pentium 90 MHz system. There are four main versions of the socketed version of this CPU, manufactured in different locations. There is the common ADW variety, as well as the later ADY, ADZ and BGC. The later models were the preferred versions of the chip, because they were rated for higher temperatures and thus more forgiving of overclocking.

The Am5x86 made the first-ever use of the controversial PR rating. Because the 5x86 is the equal of a Pentium 75 MHz processor in benchmarks, AMD later marketed the chip as "Am5x86-P75".

Sales of the Am5x86 were an important source of revenue for AMD at a time when lengthy delays in bringing the AMD K5 to production were threatening the company's profitability.

AMD manufactured the Am5x86 processor for ordinary PC systems until 1999. It was popular for entry-level desktop systems, appeared in many different notebook models, and also sold separately as an upgrade processor for older 486 systems. Several companies made upgrade kits with an AMD 5x86 with a voltage regulator and socket converter, which allows its use on virtually every socketed 486 motherboard ever produced. Several companies also provided upgrades for older 486 notebooks by replacing soldered 486 CPUs. The chips were even used on later Acorn RiscPC "PC card" second processors. The RiscPC's OpenBus memory interface was only 32 bit, which meant that the Pentium could not be easily interfaced to it. Intel's expensive Pentium Overdrive for 486 systems is a troublesome CPU, with many compatibility issues, and so is not used. The 5x86 therefore provided the acme of RiscPC Windows performance.

The chip remained in production for a long time, as it was a popular choice for use in embedded controllers. One derivative of the 5x86 family is the core used in the AMD Élan SC520 family of SoC 00200microcontrollers marketed by AMD. This powers the original Cisco PIX 501 model.

Models
Data from

title: Am5x86


text:
Cooper A-2 jacket

The Cooper A-2 (flight jacket or flying jacket) is a leather jacket, made by Cooper Sportswear, from sheepskin worn by United States Army Air Forces and United States Air Force pilots, during World War II. It was replaced after World War Two by nylon versions of the jacket, though it continued to be worn operationally during the Korean War by World War II veterans called back into service. It was re-introduced by the military just prior to Operation Desert Shield, with a modification to allow for modern insignia on the front of the jacket, and has been in service ever since.

Key features of a military-specification jacket (as opposed to a civilian version) are one-piece back (some knock-off jackets have a seam across the shoulder blades; this seam causes discomfort during long flights in a confined position) and lack of side-entry hand-warmer pockets under the large snap-down patch pockets (apparently, the military designers did not want their pilots to be seen standing around with their hands in their pockets and believed that a lack of hand-warmer pockets would force pilots to be more productive and appear more professional) and no interior pocket.

Other key features include horsehide or goatskin leather for the shell, dual-knit waist and wrist cuffs, full-length brass zipper, two brass grommets under each armpit for ventilation, a metal hook under the collar to fasten the top of the opening, and a snap-down collar, so the tips won't blow around from propwash and jetwash. Seams on the arms of the jacket run along the backside of the pattern so as not to interfere with the movement of the arms along the sides of the torso in confined spaces. Military specifications did not provide for insulation of the A-2 model.

New-build A-2s for USAF members include a velcro patch on the left breast for removable insignia, whereas World War Two models had a thin 1-inch high by 4-inch long leather name tag sewn or glued directly to the leather jacket.

Cooper Sportswear ceased production in the late 1990s, and retailer inventories were exhausted some time afterwards. Even though the A-2 is still a military-requisitioned item and contracts have been awarded to other USA suppliers using the A-2 pattern, the Cooper label is considered collectible and highly sought after by World War II re-enactors and historians. A vintage Cooper A-2 in excellent condition can be worth more than the market rate of a new-build A-2 from a current manufacturer. While original Cooper jackets are no longer in production, reproductions of Cooper jackets are being manufactured by Ohio-based US Wings Inc. US Wings was partnered with Cooper Sportswear from the 1980s until Cooper ceased production in the 1990s and now owns the rights to the Cooper name. US Wings is reproducing Cooper A-2s, G-1s and Indy Jackets under their Cooper Originals line with a label reminiscent of the original Cooper Sportswear label.

title: Cooper A-2 jacket


text:
Talk:1961

American 1961?
Just caught a cursory glance of this page, but is it only about what happened in America in 1961? Er... Maybe there is a Rest-of-World 1961 page lurking somewhere? ...I'll go look... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.84.29 (talk) 21:09, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * That was simply due to the Americentric focus, due to the fact that a disproportionately high percentage of Wikipedia editors are Americans. Of course, all the world's important events should be on the article. Crime researcher (talk) 20:01, 6 June 2009 (UTC)

Layout
There is a discussion on my talk page on page layout.

For most of the last three hundred years there is inconsistency and duplication between the year in topic paragraph, the "see also" box and what is on the year by topic pages. Prior to 1950 I am pretty convinced we can painlessly (except for sore fingers) delete all of the year in topic paragraphs and ensure that the material goes into a "see also" box, creating such a box where none exists. Post 1950, particularly from the "year in US television" link a lot of material has been added to this paragraph as highlights (sometimes making up most of the page content pointed at).

Personally I think we should still delete the paragraph, keep the box linking to the topic sites and move any particularly important parts of the year in topic paragraph to the main chronological list. This does involve undoing quite a bit of work which someone has done.

Therefore, unlike for prior to 1950 (where I've said no objection= I do it) for post 1950 I won't touch these pages unless a significant number of people agree with the change. (I am also unlikely to get the pre 1950 stuff done before summer unless the service speed improves dramatically). (talk)--BozMo 14:18, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

Upside-down years
The claim that the next upside down year is 6009 is highly dependent on typeface. On a digital clock face, it's likely to be 2005, 2255, 2552, 5002, 5522, 5225, and then finally 6009. It also adds some before 1881. Iamo
 * 2005 would be 5002 inverted using the Seven-segment digital display. The others you listed would most likely be so reversed.  6009 stands. mal7798
 * If by upside down you mean rotated, 6009 IS valid, but flipped it would be 9006, just like 1961 would become 1691 flipped. Rotated, on a digital clock 2002 would still read 2002. Am I confusing points here? :S Vman81 21:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * article should say 'rotated', and it is typeface dependent, since "1" often looks as different when rotated as "2" and "5", and more so than "8"... On the premise that 1961 "looks the same" when rotated - which must be using a digital clock-face, then 2002 does too, as does 2112, 2222, 2552 etc? dotdotdotcomma 10 Feb 2011.  —Preceding undated comment added 13:38, 10 February 2011 (UTC).

Nuclear reactor meltdown near Idaho Falls
According to the Magazine "Earth", published by the american Geological Institute, in January 1961 there was a reactor meltdown in the US, see http://www.earthmagazine.org/earth/article/1ad-7d9-1-2 - obviously this is a nearly forgotten case. Plehn (talk) 11:52, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

PS: in WP it is mentioned here: Idaho_National_Laboratory Plehn (talk) 11:54, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

9 Nov
Something is wrong, either here or there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-15#Fastest_flights: Flight 64 	26 July 1962 	3,989 mph (6,420 km/h) 	18.7 miles (30.1 km) 	Neil Armstrong —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.187.15.199 (talk) 08:57, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:57, 30 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Julia Gillard official photo.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 01:50, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Prime Minister Bill English.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:52, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Diana, Princess of Wales 1997 (2).jpg

title: Talk:1961