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Methodist Central Hall, Westminster

The Methodist Central Hall (also known as Central Hall Westminster) is a multi-purpose venue in the City of Westminster, London, serving primarily as a Methodist church and a conference centre. The building also houses an art gallery, a restaurant, and office spaces (used formerly as the headquarters of the Methodist Church of Great Britain until 2000). It contains 22 conference, meeting and seminar rooms, the largest being the Great Hall, which seats 2,300. Central Hall also acts as an important spiritual and sacred place for Methodists.

Methodist Central Hall occupies the corner of Tothill Street and Storeys Gate just off Victoria Street in London, near the junction with The Sanctuary next to the Queen Elizabeth II Conference Centre and facing Westminster Abbey.

History
Methodist Central Hall was erected by Wesleyan Methodists as one of their mixed-purpose 'central halls'. Central Hall was to act not only as a church, but to be of "great service for conferences on religious, educational, scientific, philanthropic and social questions". The hall was built in 1905–1911 on the site of the Royal Aquarium, Music Hall and Imperial Theatre, an entertainment complex that operated with varying success from 1876 to 1903. Construction was funded between 1898 and 1908 by the "Wesleyan Methodist Twentieth Century Fund" (or the "Million Guinea Fund", as it became more commonly known), whose aim was to raise one million guineas from one million Methodists. The fund closed in 1904 having raised 1,024,501 guineas (£1,075,727).

The building played host to several important events. Meetings of the suffragette movement took place at Methodist Central Hall in 1914. Scenes were re-enacted in the 2015 film Suffragette, some of which was shot in the hall.

Methodist Central Hall hosted the first meeting of the United Nations General Assembly in 1946. In return for the use of the hall, the assembly voted to fund the repainting of the walls of the church in a light blue. While it was being used by the UN General Assembly, the congregation relocated to the Coliseum Theatre.

It has been regularly used for political rallies—famous speakers have included Winnie Mandela, Mahatma Gandhi and Mikhail Gorbachev. In September 1972 the Conservative Monday Club held a much publicised "Halt Immigration Now!" public meeting in the main hall, addressed by several prominent speakers including members of parliament Ronald Bell, John Biggs-Davison, Harold Soref, and John Stokes. The Monday Club continued its use of the building until 1991 when it held two seminars there.

In 1968, Central Hall hosted the first public performance of Andrew Lloyd Webber's Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat in a concert that also included his father (organist William Lloyd Webber who was musical director at Central Hall), his brother the cellist Julian Lloyd Webber and pianist John Lill.

In early 1966 the FIFA World Cup Jules Rimet Trophy was on display at Central Hall in preparation for the football tournament being held in England that summer. It was stolen from the hall on 20 March 1966 and was recovered seven days later in south London, but the thief was never caught. England won the trophy four months later. The Jules Rimet Trophy was stolen again in Brazil and never recovered, and so had to be replaced.

In 2017, Central Hall was host to the first FIFA Interactive World Cup final where Spencer Ealing (known as Gorilla) beat Kai Wollin (known as DETO).

In 2005 Central Hall controversially applied for a licence to sell alcohol in its café and conference venues. As the Methodist Church has traditionally promoted abstinence and usually forbids consumption of alcohol on church premises, many Methodists argued that the application was in defiance of church rules and a written objection was compiled.

It is frequently used for public enquiries, including those into the Ladbroke Grove rail crash, the sinking of the Marchioness pleasure boat, and the Bloody Sunday incident in Northern Ireland.

Architecture

The Methodist Central Hall is a Grade II* listed building. It was designed by Edwin Alfred Rickards, of the firm Lanchester, Stewart and Rickards. This company also designed the City Hall building in Cathays Park, Cardiff, with which it shares many similarities. Although clad in an elaborate baroque style, to contrast with Westminster Abbey, it is an early example of the use of a reinforced concrete frame for a building in Britain. The interior was similarly planned on a Piranesian scale, although the execution was rather more economical.

The original 1904 design included two small towers on the main (east) façade, facing Westminster Abbey. These were never built, supposedly because of an outcry that they would reduce the dominance of Nicholas Hawksmoor's west towers at Westminster Abbey in views from St James's Park. The hall was eventually finished in 1911.

The domed ceiling of the Great Hall is reputed to be the second largest of its type in the world. The vast scale of the self-supporting ferro-concrete structure reflects the original intention that Central Hall was intended to be a meeting place for "open-air preaching with the roof on".

The angels in the exterior spandrels were designed by Henry Poole.

Organ
The organ was built in 1912 by William Hill & Sons and rebuilt and revised in 1970 by Rushworth and Dreaper. In 2011, Harrison & Harrison revised the layout, provided new slider soundboards and actions and painted the front pipes. The organ has 57 stops/68 ranks and 3,789 speaking pipes on four manuals and pedal. The stoplist since 2011:

 * Couplers: III-I, IV-I, I-II, III-II, IV-II, IV-III, Sub and Super III, Sub and Super III, Unison off III, Unison off IV, I-P, II-P, III-P, IV-P.
 * 8 General Combinations, 8 Divisional Combinations for each Manual and the Pedal (on 256 Memory Levels); Continental Stepper (General Piston Sequencer + and -).

title: Methodist Central Hall, Westminster


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Talk:Methodist Central Hall, Westminster

DOME DIAMETER needs to be stated as article claims "second largest" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.60.179.3 (talk) 09:51, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

[Untitled]
I thought it would be good to add The Sanctuary group's website to the Methodist Central Hall (Westminster) site.

http://www.sanctuary-westminster.org/ is the link but I hope you'd go beyond that and check out the forum as well:

http://www.sanctuary-westminster.org/forum/index.php                                 -  Alan T I thought it was called Westminster Central Hall, Westminster Methodist Hall, Westminster Methodist Central Hall. -fonzy

Not according to the website, which I took to be fairly definitive. - Khendon 13:13 Mar 3, 2003 (UTC)

Well most maps i see put: Wetsminster Central Hall and outside the place it says Westminster Methodist Hall. I think what the site is doing is: Central Hall, Westminster. -fonzy

 * They definitely call it "Central Hall Westminster" (without a comma)
 * numerous times throughout the website... - Khendon 13:40 Mar 3, 2003 (UTC)

Altough i dont usally go by google 135,000 hits for Westminster Central Hall. 133,000 for Central Hall Westminster -fonzy

For some reason, this talk page had been protected. I don't know why. I've now unprotected it. --Camembert 19:54 Mar 3, 2003 (UTC)

well it could not have just happened by it self? or could it?? :-s

It's quite easy for a sysop to protect a page by mistake because the "protect this page" link is right next to the one for "View article". So that's probably what happened. I've moved your comments from Talk:Talk:Central Hall Westminster to here (below) so I can delete that page, by the way. --Camembert

For Some reason Talk:Central Hall Westminster so i will talk here. I always here it called Westminster Central Hall or Westminsiter Methodist Hall. I always see it on maps as those, or just as Central Hall. The site is refering to it as Central Hall - Westminster. Like Alston in Cumbria. - fonzy

Usally these debates are sroted by uing google. 135,000 for Westminster Central Hall. 133,000 for Central Hall Westminster, and to be honest that doesn;t seem right without a comma. -fonzy

I am on the ministerial staff here at Central Hall... The correct answer is, it depends which web site you are referring. As a church, the title is always Methodist Central Hall, Westminster. If you wan't to argue about that one then speak with my boss, Rev Martin Turner who oversees the whole site. But, we are also a conference centre and they market the building as Central Hall, Westminster. Organisations that use our premises omit the 'Methodist' part. And sometimes people refer to it as Westminster Central Hall. What we are is rather fluid, but I know that as a church we are known nationally and locally as Methodist Central Hall, Westminster. The Sanctuary Westminster is the young adult congregation that I lead here.

 * I see we are changing the titles again.. The first paragraph now reads:

 * Westminster Central Hall, (also called Westminster Methodist Hall or Methodist Central Hall, Westminster

 * As indicated by our colleague above I have only ever heard it called Methodist Central Hall or Central Hall, Westminster. NEVER Westminster Methodist Hall. Rarely Westminster Central Hall. Have attended there quite a few times for church events... Dsergeant 13:37, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


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Aswan Dam

The Aswan Dam, or more specifically since the 1980s, the Aswan High Dam, is one of the world's largest embankment dams, which was built across the Nile in Aswan, Egypt, between 1960 and 1970. When it was completed, it was the tallest earthen dam in the world, eclipsing the United States' Chatuge Dam. The dam created a reservoir named Lake Nasser. Its significance largely upstaged the previous Aswan Low Dam initially completed in 1902 downstream. Based on the success of the Low Dam, then at its maximum utilization, construction of the High Dam became a key objective of the new regime, the Free Officers movement of 1952; with its ability to better control flooding, provide increased water storage for irrigation and generate hydroelectricity, the dam was seen as pivotal to Egypt's planned industrialization. Like the earlier implementation, the High Dam has had a significant effect on the economy and culture of Egypt.

Before the High Dam was built, even with the old dam in place, the annual flooding of the Nile during late summer had continued to pass largely unimpeded down the valley from its East African drainage basin. These floods brought high water with natural nutrients and minerals that annually enriched the fertile soil along its floodplain and delta; this predictability had made the Nile valley ideal for farming since ancient times. However, this natural flooding varied, since high-water years could destroy the whole crop, while low-water years could create widespread drought and consequently famine. Both these events had continued to occur periodically. As Egypt's population grew and technology increased, both a desire and the ability developed to completely control the flooding, and thus both protect and support farmland and its economically important cotton crop. With the greatly increased reservoir storage provided by the High Aswan Dam, the floods could be controlled and the water could be stored for later release over multiple years.

The Aswan Dam was designed by Nikolai Aleksandrovich Malyshev of the Moscow-based Hydroproject Institute. Designed for both irrigation and power generation, the dam incorporates a number of relatively new features, including a very deep grout curtain below its base. Although the reservoir will eventually silt in, even the most conservative estimates indicate the dam will give at least 200 years of service.

Construction history
The earliest recorded attempt to build a dam near Aswan was in the 11th century, when the Arab polymath and engineer Ibn al-Haytham (known as Alhazen in the West) was summoned to Egypt by the Fatimid Caliph, Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah, to regulate the flooding of the Nile, a task requiring an early attempt at an Aswan Dam. His field work convinced him of the impracticality of this scheme.

Aswan Low Dam, 1898–1902
The British began construction of the first dam across the Nile in 1898. Construction lasted until 1902 and the dam was opened on 10 December 1902. The project was designed by Sir William Willcocks and involved several eminent engineers, including Sir Benjamin Baker and Sir John Aird, whose firm, John Aird & Co., was the main contractor.

Aswan High Dam prelude, 1954–1960
In 1952, the Greek-Egyptian engineer Adrian Daninos began to develop the plan of the new Aswan Dam. Although the Low Dam was almost overtopped in 1946, the government of King Farouk showed no interest in Daninos's plans. Instead the Nile Valley Plan by the British hydrologist Harold Edwin Hurst was favored, which proposed to store water in Sudan and Ethiopia, where evaporation is much lower. The Egyptian position changed completely after the overthrow of the monarchy, led by the Free Officers Movement including Gamal Abdel Nasser. The Free Officers were convinced that the Nile Waters had to be stored in Egypt for political reasons, and within two months, the plan of Daninos was accepted. Initially, both the United States and the USSR were interested in helping development of the dam. Complications ensued due to their rivalry during the Cold War, as well as growing intra-Arab tensions.

In 1955, Nasser was claiming to be the leader of Arab nationalism, in opposition to the traditional monarchies, especially the Hashemite Kingdom of Iraq following its signing of the 1955 Baghdad Pact. At that time the U.S. feared that communism would spread to the Middle East, and it saw Nasser as a natural leader of an anticommunist procapitalist Arab League. America and the United Kingdom offered to help finance construction of the High Dam, with a loan of $270 million, in return for Nasser's leadership in resolving the Arab-Israeli conflict. While opposed to communism, capitalism, and imperialism, Nasser identified as a tactical neutralist, and sought to work with both the U.S. and the USSR for Egyptian and Arab benefit. After the UN criticized a raid by Israel against Egyptian forces in Gaza in 1955, Nasser realized that he could not portray himself as the leader of pan-Arab nationalism if he could not defend his country militarily against Israel. In addition to his development plans, he looked to quickly modernize his military, and he turned first to the U.S. for aid.

American Secretary of State John Foster Dulles and President Dwight Eisenhower told Nasser that the U.S. would supply him with weapons only if they were used for defensive purposes and if he accepted American military personnel for supervision and training. Nasser did not accept these conditions, and consulted the USSR for support.

Although Dulles believed that Nasser was only bluffing and that the USSR would not aid Nasser, he was wrong: the USSR promised Nasser a quantity of arms in exchange for a deferred payment of Egyptian grain and cotton. On 27 September 1955, Nasser announced an arms deal, with Czechoslovakia acting as a middleman for the Soviet support. Instead of attacking Nasser for turning to the Soviets, Dulles sought to improve relations with him. In December 1955, the US and the UK pledged $56 and $14 million, respectively, toward construction of the High Aswan Dam.

Though the Czech arms deal created an incentive for the US to invest at Aswan, the UK cited the deal as a reason for repealing its promise of dam funds. Dulles was angered more by Nasser's diplomatic recognition of China, which was in direct conflict with Dulles's policy of containment of communism.

Several other factors contributed to the US deciding to withdraw its offer of funding for the dam. Dulles believed that the USSR would not fulfill its commitment of military aid. He was also irritated by Nasser's neutrality and attempts to play both sides of the Cold War. At the time, other Western allies in the Middle East, including Turkey and Iraq, were resentful that Egypt, a persistently neutral country, was being offered so much aid.

In June 1956, the Soviets offered Nasser $1.12 billion at 2% interest for the construction of the dam. On 19 July the U.S. State Department announced that American financial assistance for the High Dam was "not feasible in present circumstances."

On 26 July 1956, with wide Egyptian acclaim, Nasser announced the nationalization of the Suez Canal that included fair compensation for the former owners. Nasser planned on the revenues generated by the canal to help fund construction of the High Dam. When the Suez War broke out, the United Kingdom, France, and Israel seized the canal and the Sinai. But pressure from the U.S. and the USSR at the United Nations and elsewhere forced them to withdraw.

In 1958, the USSR proceeded to provide support for the High Dam project.

In the 1950s, archaeologists began raising concerns that several major historical sites, including the famous temple of Abu Simbel were about to be submerged by waters collected behind the dam. A rescue operation began in 1960 under UNESCO (for details see below under Effects).

Despite its size, the Aswan project has not materially hurt the Egyptian balance of payments. The three Soviet credits covered virtually all of the project's foreign exchange requirements, including the cost of technical services, imported power generating and transmission equipment and some imported equipment for land reclamation. Egypt was not seriously burdened by payments on the credits, most of which were extended for 12 years with interest at the very low rate of 2-1/2%. Repayments to the USSR constituted only a small net drain during the first half of the 1960s, and increased export earnings derived from crops grown on newly reclaimed land have largely offset the modest debt service payments in recent years. During 1965–70, these export earnings amounted to an estimated $126 million, compared with debt service payments of $113 million.

Construction and filling, 1960–1976

The Soviets also provided technicians and heavy machinery. The enormous rock and clay dam was designed by Nikolai Aleksandrovich Malyshev of the Moscow-based Hydroproject Institute, along with some Egyptian engineers. 25,000 Egyptian engineers and workers contributed to the construction of the dams.

Originally designed by West German and French engineers in the early 1950s and slated for financing with Western credits, the Aswan High Dam became the USSR's largest and most famous foreign aid project after the United States, the United Kingdom, and the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (IBRD) withdrew their support in 1956. The first Soviet loan of $100 million to cover construction of coffer dams for diversion of the Nile was extended in 1958. An additional $225 million was extended in 1960 to complete the dam and construct power-generating facilities, and subsequently about $100 million was made available for land reclamation. These credits of some $425 million covered only the foreign exchange costs of the project, including salaries of Soviet engineers who supervised the project and were responsible for the installation and testing of Soviet equipment. Actual construction, which began in 1960, was done by Egyptian companies on contract to the High Dam Authority, and all domestic costs were borne by the Egyptians. Egyptian participation in the venture has raised the construction industry's capacity and reputation significantly.

On the Egyptian side, the project was led by Osman Ahmed Osman's Arab Contractors. The relatively young Osman underbid his only competitor by one-half.
 * 1960: Start of construction on 9 January
 * 1964: First dam construction stage completed, reservoir started filling
 * 1970: The High Dam, as-Sad al-'Aali, completed on 21 July
 * 1976: Reservoir reached capacity.

Specifications
The Aswan High Dam is 3830 m long, 980 m wide at the base, 40 m wide at the crest and 111 m tall. It contains 43,000,000 m3 of material. At maximum, 11000 m3/s of water can pass through the dam. There are further emergency spillways for an extra 5000 m3/s, and the Toshka Canal links the reservoir to the Toshka Depression. The reservoir, named Lake Nasser, is 500 km long and 35 km at its widest, with a surface area of 5250 km2. It holds 132 km3 of water.

Irrigation scheme
Due to the absence of appreciable rainfall, Egypt's agriculture depends entirely on irrigation. With irrigation, two crops per year can be produced, except for sugar cane which has a growing period of almost one year.

The high dam at Aswan releases, on average, 55 km3 water per year, of which some 46 km3 are diverted into the irrigation canals.

In the Nile valley and delta, almost 336000 km2 benefit from these waters producing on average 1.8 crops per year. The annual crop consumptive use of water is about 38 km3. Hence, the overall irrigation efficiency is 38/46 = 0.826 or 83%. This is a relatively high irrigation efficiency. The field irrigation efficiencies are much less, but the losses are reused downstream. This continuous reuse accounts for the high overall efficiency.

The following table shows the distribution of irrigation water over the branch canals taking off from the one main irrigation canal, the Mansuriya Canal near Giza.

 * * Period 1 March to 31 July. 1 feddan is 0.42 ha or about 1 acre.
 * * Data from the Egyptian Water Use Management Project (EWUP)

The salt concentration of the water in the Aswan reservoir is about 0.25 kg/m3, a very low salinity level. At an annual inflow of 55 km3, the annual salt influx reaches 14 million tons. The average salt concentration of the drainage water evacuated into the sea and the coastal lakes is 2.7 kg/m3. At an annual discharge of 10 km3 (not counting the 2 kg/m3 of salt intrusion from the sea and the lakes, see figure "Water balances"), the annual salt export reaches 27 million ton. In 1995, the output of salt was higher than the influx, and Egypt's agricultural lands were desalinizing. Part of this could be due to the large number of subsurface drainage projects executed in the last decades to control the water table and soil salinity.

Drainage through subsurface drains and drainage channels is essential to prevent a deterioration of crop yields from waterlogging and soil salinization caused by irrigation. By 2003, more than 20000 km2 have been equipped with a subsurface drainage system and approximately 7.2 km2 of water is drained annually from areas with these systems. The total investment cost in agricultural drainage over 27 years from 1973 to 2002 was about $3.1 billion covering the cost of design, construction, maintenance, research and training. During this period 11 large-scale projects were implemented with financial support from World Bank and other donors.

Effects
The High Dam has resulted in protection from floods and droughts, an increase in agricultural production and employment, electricity production, and improved navigation that also benefits tourism. Conversely, the dam flooded a large area, causing the relocation of over 100,000 people. Many archaeological sites were submerged while others were relocated. The dam is blamed for coastline erosion, soil salinity, and health problems.

The assessment of the costs and benefits of the dam remains controversial decades after its completion. According to one estimate, the annual economic benefit of the High Dam immediately after its completion was, $587 million using the exchange rate in 1970 of $2.30 per ): from agricultural production,  from hydroelectric generation,  from flood protection, and  from improved navigation. At the time of its construction, total cost, including unspecified "subsidiary projects" and the extension of electric power lines, amounted to . Not taking into account the negative environmental and social effects of the dam, its costs are thus estimated to have been recovered within only two years. One observer notes: "The impacts of the Aswan High Dam (...) have been overwhelmingly positive. Although the Dam has contributed to some environmental problems, these have proved to be significantly less severe than was generally expected, or currently believed by many people." Another observer disagreed and he recommended that the dam should be torn down. Tearing it down would cost only a fraction of the funds required for "continually combating the dam's consequential damage" and 500,000 ha of fertile land could be reclaimed from the layers of mud on the bed of the drained reservoir. Samuel C. Florman wrote about the dam: "As a structure it is a success. But in its effect on the ecology of the Nile Basin – most of which could have been predicted – it is a failure".

Periodic floods and droughts have affected Egypt since ancient times. The dam mitigated the effects of floods, such as those in 1964, 1973, and 1988. Navigation along the river has been improved, both upstream and downstream of the dam. Sailing along the Nile is a favorite tourism activity, which is mainly done during the winter when the natural flow of the Nile would have been too low to allow navigation of cruise ships. A new fishing industry has been created around Lake Nasser, though it is struggling due to its distance from any significant markets. The annual production was about 35 000 tons in the mid-1990s. Factories for the fishing industry and packaging have been set up near the Lake.

According to a 1971 CIA declassified report, although the High Dam has not created ecological problems as serious as some observers have charged, its construction has brought economic losses as well as gains. These losses derive largely from the settling in dam's lake of the rich silt traditionally borne by the Nile. To date (1971), the main impact has been on the fishing industry. Egypt's Mediterranean catch, which once averaged 35,000-40,000 tons annually, has shrunk to 20,000 tons or less, largely because the loss of plankton nourished by the silt has eliminated the sardine population in Egyptian waters. Fishing in high dam's lake may in time at least partly offset the loss of saltwater fish, but only the most optimistic estimates place the eventual catch as high as 15,000-20,000 tons. Lack of continuing silt deposits at the mouth of the river also has contributed to a serious erosion problem. Commercial fertilizer requirements and salination and drainage difficulties, already large in perennially irrigated areas of Lower and Middle Egypt, will be somewhat increased in Upper Egypt by the change to perennial irrigation.

Drought protection, agricultural production and employment
The dams also protected Egypt from the droughts in 1972–73 and 1983–87 that devastated East and West Africa. The High Dam allowed Egypt to reclaim about 2.0 million feddan (840,000 hectares) in the Nile Delta and along the Nile Valley, increasing the country's irrigated area by a third. The increase was brought about both by irrigating what used to be desert and by bringing under cultivation of 385,000 ha that were previously used as flood retention basins. About half a million families were settled on these new lands. In particular the area under rice and sugar cane cultivation increased. In addition, about 1 million feddan (420,000 hectares), mostly in Upper Egypt, were converted from flood irrigation with only one crop per year to perennial irrigation allowing two or more crops per year. On other previously irrigated land, yields increased because water could be made available at critical low-flow periods. For example, wheat yields in Egypt tripled between 1952 and 1991 and better availability of water contributed to this increase. Most of the 32 km3 of freshwater, or almost 40 percent of the average flow of the Nile that were previously lost to the sea every year could be put to beneficial use. While about 10 km3 of the water saved is lost due to evaporation in Lake Nasser, the amount of water available for irrigation still increased by 22 km3. Other estimates put evaporation from Lake Nasser at between 10 and 16 cubic km per year.

Electricity production
The dam powers twelve generators each rated at 175 MW, with a total of 2.1 GW. Power generation began in 1967. When the High Dam first reached peak output in 1970, it produced around half of Egypt's production of electric power (about 15 percent by 1998), and it gave most Egyptian villages the use of electricity for the first time. The High Dam has also improved the efficiency and the extension of the Old Aswan Hydropower stations by regulating upstream flows. At the time of completion, it was the largest power station in Africa and the 6th largest hydroelectric power station in the world.

All High Dam power facilities were completed ahead of schedule. 12 turbines were installed and tested, giving the plant an installed capacity of 2,100 megawatts (MW), or more than twice the national total in 1960. With this capacity, the Aswan plant can produce 10 billion kWh of energy yearly. Two 500-kilovolt trunk lines to Cairo have been completed, and initial transmission problems, stemming mainly from poor insulators, were solved. Also, the damage inflicted on a main transformer station in 1968 by Israeli commandos has been repaired, and the Aswan plant is fully integrated with the power network in Lower Egypt. By 1971 estimation, power output at Aswan won't reach much more than half of the plant's theoretical capacity, because of limited water supplies and the differing seasonal water-use patterns for irrigation and power production. Agricultural demand for water in the summer far exceeds the amount needed to meet the comparatively low summer demand for electric power. Heavy summer irrigation use, however, will leave insufficient water under Egyptian control to permit hydroelectric power production at full capacity in the winter. Technical studies indicate that a maximum annual output of 5 billion kWh appears to be all that can be sustained due to fluctuations in Nile flows.

Resettlement and compensations
Lake Nasser flooded much of lower Nubia and 100,000 to 120,000 people were resettled in Sudan and Egypt.

In Sudan, 50,000 to 70,000 Sudanese Nubians were moved from the old town of Wadi Halfa and its surrounding villages. Some were moved to a newly created settlement on the shore of Lake Nasser called New Wadi Halfa, and some were resettled approximately 700 km south to the semi-arid Butana plain near the town of Khashm el-Girba up the Atbara River. The climate there had a regular rainy season as opposed to their previous desert habitat in which virtually no rain fell. The government developed an irrigation project, called the New Halfa Agricultural Development Scheme to grow cotton, grains, sugar cane and other crops. The Nubians were resettled in twenty five planned villages that included schools, medical facilities, and other services, including piped water and some electrification.

In Egypt, the majority of the 50,000 Nubians were moved three to ten kilometers from the Nile near Edna and Kom Ombo, 45 km downstream from Aswan in what was called "New Nubia". Housing and facilities were built for 47 village units whose relationship to each other approximated that in Old Nubia. Irrigated land was provided to grow mainly sugar cane.

In 2019–20, Egypt started to compensate the Nubians who lost their homes following the dam impoundment.

Archaeological sites

Twenty-two monuments and architectural complexes that were threatened by flooding from Lake Nasser, including the Abu Simbel temples, were preserved by moving them to the shores of the lake under the UNESCO Nubia Campaign. Also moved were Philae, Kalabsha and Amada.

These monuments were granted to countries that helped with the works:
 * The Debod temple to Madrid
 * The Temple of Dendur to the Metropolitan Museum of Art of New York
 * The Temple of Taffeh to the Rijksmuseum van Oudheden of Leiden
 * The Temple of Ellesyia to the Museo Egizio of Turin

These items were removed to the garden area of the Sudan National Museum of Khartoum:
 * The temple of Ramses II at Aksha
 * The temple of Hatshepsut at Buhen
 * The temple of Khnum at Kumma
 * The tomb of the Nubian prince Djehuti-hotep at Debeira
 * The temples of Dedwen and Sesostris III at Semna
 * The granite columns from the Faras Cathedral
 * A part of the paintings of the Faras Cathedral; the other part is in the National Museum of Warsaw.

The Temple of Ptah at Gerf Hussein had its free-standing section reconstructed at New Kalabsha, alongside the Temple of Kalabsha, Beit el-Wali, and the Kiosk of Qertassi.

The remaining archaeological sites, including the Buhen fort and the cemetery of Fadrus have been flooded by Lake Nasser.

Loss of sediments
Before the construction of the High Dam, the Nile deposited sediments of various particle size – consisting of fine sand, silt and clay – on fields in Upper Egypt through its annual flood, contributing to soil fertility. However, the nutrient value of the sediment has often been overestimated. 88 percent of the sediment was carried to the sea before the construction of the High Dam. The nutrient value added to the land by the sediment was only 6,000 tons of potash, 7,000 tons of phosphorus pentoxide and 17,000 tons of nitrogen. These amounts are insignificant compared to what is needed to reach the yields achieved today in Egypt's irrigation. Also, the annual spread of sediment due to the Nile floods occurred along the banks of the Nile. Areas far from the river which never received the Nile floods before are now being irrigated.

A more serious issue of trapping of sediment by the dam is that it has increased coastline erosion surrounding the Nile Delta. There is a lack of reliable statistics.

Waterlogging and increase in soil salinity
Before the construction of the High Dam, groundwater levels in the Nile Valley fluctuated 8 - 9 m per year with the water level of the Nile. During summer when evaporation was highest, the groundwater level was too deep to allow salts dissolved in the water to be pulled to the surface through capillary action. With the disappearance of the annual flood and heavy year-round irrigation, groundwater levels remained high with little fluctuation leading to waterlogging. Soil salinity also increased because the distance between the surface and the groundwater table was small enough (1–2 m depending on soil conditions and temperature) to allow water to be pulled up by evaporation so that the relatively small concentrations of salt in the groundwater accumulated on the soil surface over the years. Since most of the farmland did not have proper subsurface drainage to lower the groundwater table, salinization gradually affected crop yields. Drainage through sub-surface drains and drainage channels is essential to prevent a deterioration of crop yields from soil salinization and waterlogging. By 2003, more than 2 million hectares have been equipped with a subsurface drainage system at a cost from 1973 to 2002 of about $3.1 billion.

Health
Contrary to many predictions made prior to the Aswan High Dam construction and publications that followed, that the prevalence of schistosomiasis (bilharzia) would increase, it did not. This assumption did not take into account the extent of perennial irrigation that was already present throughout Egypt decades before the high dam closure. By the 1950s only a small proportion of Upper Egypt had not been converted from basin (low transmission) to perennial (high transmission) irrigation. Expansion of perennial irrigation systems in Egypt did not depend on the high dam. In fact, within 15 years of the high dam closure there was solid evidence that bilharzia was declining in Upper Egypt. S. haematobium has since disappeared altogether. Suggested reasons for this include improvements in irrigation practice. In the Nile Delta, schistosomiasis had been highly endemic, with prevalence in the villages 50% or higher for almost a century before. This was a consequence of the conversion of the Delta to perennial irrigation to grow long staple cotton by the British. This has changed. Large-scale treatment programmes in the 1990s using single-dose oral medication contributed greatly to reducing the prevalence and severity of S. mansoni in the Delta.

Other effects
Sediment deposited in the reservoir is lowering the water storage capacity of Lake Nasser. The reservoir storage capacity is 162 km3, including 31 km3 dead storage at the bottom of the lake below 147 m above sea level, 90 km3 live storage, and 41 km3 of storage for high flood waters above 175 m above sea level. The annual sediment load of the Nile is about 134 million tons. This means that the dead storage volume would be filled up after 300–500 years if the sediment accumulated at the same rate throughout the area of the lake. Obviously sediment accumulates much faster at the upper reaches of the lake, where sedimentation has already affected the live storage zone.

Before the construction of the High Dam, the 50,000 km of irrigation and drainage canals in Egypt had to be dredged regularly to remove sediments. After construction of the dam, aquatic weeds grew much faster in the clearer water, helped by fertilizer residues. The total length of the infested waterways was about 27,000 km in the mid-1990s. Weeds have been gradually brought under control by manual, mechanical and biological methods.

Mediterranean fishing and brackish water lake fishery declined after the dam was finished because nutrients that flowed down the Nile to the Mediterranean were trapped behind the dam. For example, the sardine catch off the Egyptian coast declined from 18,000 tons in 1962 to a mere 460 tons in 1968, but then gradually recovered to 8,590 tons in 1992. A scientific article in the mid-1990s noted that "the mismatch between low primary productivity and relatively high levels of fish production in the region still presents a puzzle to scientists."

A concern before the construction of the High Dam had been the potential drop in river-bed level downstream of the Dam as the result of erosion caused by the flow of sediment-free water. Estimates by various national and international experts put this drop at between and 2 and 10 m. However, the actual drop has been measured at 0.3 - 0.7 m, much less than expected.

The red-brick construction industry, which consisted of hundreds of factories that used Nile sediment deposits along the river, has also been negatively affected. Deprived of sediment, they started using the older alluvium of otherwise arable land taking out of production up to 120 km2 annually, with an estimated 1,000 km2 destroyed by 1984 when the government prohibited, "with only modest success," further excavation. According to one source, bricks are now being made from new techniques which use a sand-clay mixture and it has been argued that the mud-based brick industry would have suffered even if the dam had not been built.

Because of the lower turbidity of the water sunlight penetrates deeper in the Nile water. Because of this and the increased presence of nutrients from fertilizers in the water, more algae grow in the Nile. This in turn increases the costs of drinking water treatment. Apparently few experts had expected that water quality in the Nile would actually decrease because of the High Dam.

Appraisal of the Project
Although it is moot whether the project constitutes the best use of the funds spent, the Aswan Dam project unquestionably is and will continue to be economically beneficial to Egypt. The project has been expensive and it took considerable time to complete, as is usually the case with large hydroelectric developments, But Egypt now has a valuable asset with a long life and low operating costs. Even so, the wisdom of concentrating one-third of domestic saving and most of available foreign aid on a slow growth project is questionable. Since 1960, GNP has grown 50%, but mainly as a result of other investment.

Egyptian authorities were well aware that equivalent gains in output could have been achieved more quickly and more cheaply by other means. A series of low dams, similar to the barrages now contemplated, was suggested by Egyptian engineers as a more economical means of achieving up to 2,000 MW of additional generating capacity, US and WorldBank agricultural experts had long recommended improved drainage, introduction of hybrid seeds, and other such low-cost alternatives to land reclamation as a means of increasing agricultural output, In other areas, most notably the once efficient cotton textile industry, investment was needed to forestall an output decline, Implementation of these and other alternatives has been postponed rather than precluded by the High Dam project.

However, the decision to concentrate Egyptian savings and energies on the Aswan project for a decade was heavily based on non-economic factors. Nasser undoubtedly believed that a project of considerable symbolic appeal was needed to mobilize the population behind the government's economic goals, He also apparently felt that the East and West would be more easily persuaded to bid against each other for a project of this scope.

The Aswan High Dam made an appreciable contribution to Egyptian GNP, however the returns were well below what the planners had anticipated. The principal limiting factors on the High Dam's contribution to Egyptian output are a shortage of land suitable for reclamation, the high cost and long time required to bring reclaimed land to full productivity, and an inadequate water supply to meet power and irrigation goals simultaneously. The last limitation arises in part from the allocation in a 1959 agreement of more water to Sudan than was originally foreseen and in part from differences in the seasonal demand pattern of agriculture and the hydroelectric plant for the water. Irrigation requires very heavy use of water during summer months, while power generation needs peak during the winter. Ecological problems created by the dam, most of which were anticipated, have not seriously harmed the economy, although a few minor industries have been damaged.

The dam is, nonetheless, a viable project. Eventually the contribution to GNP equals as much as 20% of total investment. Moreover, the dam and associated projects provided returns that at least offset the cost of operation, repayment of foreign loans and amortisation of domestic loans.

title: Aswan Dam


text:
Talk:Rosetta Disk Project

maybe merge and redirect with Rosetta Project?

title: Talk:Rosetta Disk Project


text:
Glossary of Buddhism

Some Buddhist terms and concepts lack direct translations into English that cover the breadth of the original term. Below are given a number of important Buddhist terms, short definitions, and the languages in which they appear. In this list, an attempt has been made to organize terms by their original form and give translations and synonyms in other languages along with the definition.

Languages and traditions dealt with here:
 * English (Eng.)
 * Pāli: Theravada Buddhism
 * Sanskrit (or Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit): primarily Mahayana Buddhism
 * Bengali (Bgd): Buddhism in Bangladesh
 * Sinhala (Sri): Buddhism in Sri Lanka
 * Burmese (Bur): Buddhism in Myanmar
 * Karen (Kar): Theravada Buddhism
 * Khmer: Buddhism in Cambodia
 * Mon (Mon): Theravada Buddhism
 * Mongolian (Mn): Buddhism in Mongolia
 * Shan (Shan): Theravada Buddhism
 * Tibetan (Tib): Tibetan Buddhism
 * Dzongkha ༼རྫོང་ཁ༽ (Dzo): Buddhism in Bhutan
 * Thai: Buddhism in Thailand
 * Lao: Buddhism in Laos
 * CJKV languages
 * Chinese (Cn): Chinese Buddhism
 * Cantonese (Hk): Buddhism in Hong Kong
 * Japanese (Jp): Buddhism in Japan
 * Korean (Ko): Korean Buddhism
 * Taiwanese Hokkien (Tw): Buddhism in Taiwan
 * Vietnamese (Vi): Buddhism in Vietnam (Mahayana and Theravada)
 * Javanese (Jv): Buddhism in Indonesia

title: Glossary of Buddhism


text:
Talk:Mixing console

Mixing console
How to mix effects with all the inputs with aux send/return

''Uh..Please elaborate on this! Do you seek instructions/descriptions of the various ways to operate aux and effect sends/returns on an analog console?''

Clumsy
The following is clumsy: the signal produced by the mixer will usually be sent directly to an amplifier, unless that particular mixer is “powered” or it is being connected to powered speakers.

Functionally, the mixer output is always sent to an amplifier and the amplifier output to speakers. If the amplifier happens to be physically part of the mixer (a powered mixer) or the speakers (powered speakers) then so be it.

sugestion need terms defined

 * I know this is not the cool thing to do, but I found alot of words with definitions at this link. check it out http://www.sweetwater.com/shop/studio/preamps/glossary.php. I know that you are not supposed to copy and paste so, I didn't but maybe some one with a little more time could take a look at this page and put the information into their own words. Note the term direct out, we have it listed here on Wikipedia but it is not defined.

Digital Mixing algorithms
The audio mixing article says "Mixing - summing signals together, which is normally done by a dedicated summing amplifier or in the case of digital by a simple algorithm." (emphasis mine) Where is there information on such algorithms? (Hopefully I haven't missed it if it's already in this article!) There must be more complexity than simply summing, because (for example) summing more than one full-amplitude sine wave will result in a lot of clipping. Another example is a full-amplitude sine wave which, after a time, is joined by a second sine wave of equal amplitude -- how are they mixed without clipping, but preserving the psychoacoustic properties? I have yet to find a clear, non-code description of the details of this sort of thing. Or else I have a misunderstanding about the whole process. -- 98.221.23.155 (talk) 03:26, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

 * As an end-user of digital mixers, I'm interested in your question, but I'm not a designer of digital audio. As far as I have been able to find out, well-engineered digital algorithms take into account how many signals are being summed, and each signal to be summed is reduced in amplitude by an amount which corresponds to how many active signals are present. Another scheme is to make the processing core be very high bit depth, much higher than the input or output resolution. Binksternet (talk) 03:15, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Digital summing is simple addition. To avoid clipping, the accumulator where result is stored typically has overflow bits. You have the same situation with analog summing with additional headroom in the summing amplifier. Avoiding clipping is a matter of managing the gain structure of the system. Responsibility for this is shared between equipment designer and equipment operator. ~Kvng (talk) 21:14, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mixing console


text:
Municipalities of Sweden

The municipalities of Sweden (Sveriges kommuner) are its lower-level local government entities. There are 290 municipalities which are responsible for a large proportion of local services, including schools, emergency services and physical planning.

Foundation
The Local Government Act of 1991 specifies several responsibilities for the municipalities, and provides outlines for local government, such as the process for electing the municipal assembly. It also regulates a process (laglighetsprövning, "legality trial") through which any citizen can appeal the decisions of a local government to a county court.

Municipal government in Sweden is similar to city commission government and cabinet-style council government. A legislative municipal assembly (kommunfullmäktige) of between 31 and 101 members (always an odd number) is elected from party-list proportional representation at municipal elections, held every four years in conjunction with the national general elections. The assembly in turn appoints a municipal executive committee (kommunstyrelse) from its members. The executive committee is headed by its chairman, (kommunstyrelsens ordförande). Swedish municipalities generally employ one or more politicians as Municipal Commissioners, (kommunalråd) one of which is usually the chairman of the executive committee.

The government of the Stockholm municipality is partially based on its own, separate municipal government law.

History
The first local government acts were implemented on January 1, 1863. There were two acts, one for the cities and one for the countryside. The total number of municipalities was about 2,500.

The rural municipalities were based on the country-side civil parishes or administrative parishes (socknar), often formed in the Middle Ages around a church. The municipality acts of 1862 formally separated the civil municipalities from the parishes, establishing the municipality assembly as the decision-making body of rural municipalities and the church assembly as the decision-making body of parishes.

The then 89 cities/towns (städer) (the same word is used for both city and town in Swedish) were based on the old chartered cities. There was also a third type, köping or market town. The status of these was somewhere between the rural municipalities and the cities. There were only eight of them in 1863, rising to a peak of 96 in 1959.

Up until 1930, when the total number of municipalities reached its peak (2,532 entities), there were more partitions than amalgamations.

In 1943 more than 500 of Sweden's municipalities had fewer than 500 inhabitants, and the 1943 års kommunindelningskommitté ("Municipal subdivision commission of 1943") proposed that the number of rural municipalities should be drastically reduced.

After years of preparations the first of the two nationwide municipal reforms of the 20th century was implemented in 1952. The number of rural municipalities was reduced from 2,281 to 816. The cities (by then 133) were not affected.

Rather soon it was established that the reform of 1952 was not radical enough. A new commission, 1959 års indelningssakkunniga ("Subdivision experts of 1959") concluded that the next municipal reform should create new larger mixed rural/urban municipalities.

The Riksdag decided in 1962 that the new reform should be implemented on a voluntary basis. The process started in January 1964, when all municipalities were grouped in 282 kommunblock("municipal blocks"). The co-operation within the blocks should ultimately lead to amalgamations. The target year was 1971, when all municipalities should be of uniform type and all the remaining formal differences in government and privileges between cities and rural municipalities should be abolished.

The amalgamations within the "blocks" started in 1965 and more were accomplished in 1967 and 1969, when the number of municipalities dropped from 1006 to 848. The Riksdag, however, found the amalgamation process too slow, and decided to speed it up by ending the voluntary aspect. In 1971 the unitary municipality (kommun) was introduced and the number of entities went down to 464; three years later it was 278. In one case (Svedala Municipality) the process was not accomplished until 1977.

Most of the municipalities were soon consolidated, but in some cases the antagonism within the new unities was so strong that it led to "divorces". The total number of municipalities has today risen to 290.

The question of whether a new municipality will be created is at the discretion of the central Swedish government. It is recommended that the lower limit of a new municipality shall be 5,000 inhabitants.

Some municipalities still use the term "City" (Swedish: stad) when referring to themselves, a practice adopted by the largest and most urban municipalities Stockholm, Gothenburg and Malmö. Thirteen municipalities altogether, some of them including considerable rural areas, have made this choice, which is unofficial and has no effect on the administrative status of the municipality. The practice can, however, create some confusion as the term stad nowadays normally refers to a larger built-up area and not to an administrative entity.

Geographical boundaries
The municipalities in Sweden cover the entire territory of the nation. Unlike the United States or Canada, there are no unincorporated areas. The municipalities in the north cover large areas of sparsely populated land. Kiruna, at 19,446 km2, is sometimes held to be the world's largest "city" by area, although places like La Tuque, Quebec (28,421 km2, official style Ville), the City of Kalgoorlie-Boulder in Western Australia (95,575.1 km2 and the Altamira in Northern Brazil (159,533 km2) are larger. (By comparison, the total area of the state of Lebanon is 10,452 km2.) At any rate, several northern municipalities are larger than many counties in the more densely populated southern part of the country.

Sub-division
The municipalities were earlier also divided into parishes, or församlingar. As these were subdivisions of the Church of Sweden, the separation of church and state along with a shift in responsibility for the population registration in Sweden transferring to the Swedish Tax Agency led to a new formal subdivision called district. Districts have been in force since 2016. These districts correspond by and large to the previous parishes as they existed on 31 December 1999, without later amalgamations. Many of the districts still correspond to the earlier 17th century division socknar, though the Swedish municipality reforms of 1862–63, 1952 and to some extent 1971, did perform some amalgamations and transferals of land (including populations) between municipalities.

Duties
According to law, the municipalities are responsible for:
 * Childcare and pre-school
 * Primary and secondary schools
 * Social service
 * Elderly care
 * Support to people with disabilities
 * Health and environmental issues
 * Emergency services (not policing, which is the responsibility of the central government)
 * Urban planning
 * Sanitation (waste, sewage)

Many municipalities in addition have services like leisure activities for youths and housing services to make them attractive in getting residents.

title: Municipalities of Sweden


text:
Talk:The Birthday Party (band)

Untitled
Hello again, Birchtree.

You write, "This article is taken from Howlspace.com". I just went to that site and looked for copyright information, but couldn't find any. Do you own the copyright, or has the copyright owner agreed to release the material under the GNU Free Documentation License? These things are important, so please let us know by doing the requisite typing on your keyboard. -- Oliver P. 13:58 Mar 3, 2003 (UTC)

 * If the current contents do have to be taken down for copyright, be warned: I will write an article about the Pinter play here :) --Camembert

Well, admittedly, that would be a fine replacement. ;) However, the band were rather influential and certainly deserve an entry in the Wikipedia. I've mailed the author of the article, and will let you know ASAP if we get consent or not.

Update - still no word back from Howlspace as to whether we can use the article or not. Birchtree 21:42 Mar 5, 2003 (UTC)

 * Should we blank the article while waiting to hear if we can use it? -- Oliver P. 01:20 Mar 6, 2003 (UTC)

I don't mind; might be the safest option. If you do, please save a copy in case we hear back with their blessing. ;) Birchtree 12:22 Mar 6, 2003 (UTC)

Still not heard back from the special chaps. Looks like they aren't going to bother to get in touch. Can we call that tacit consent? ;) Birchtree 07:41 Mar 15, 2003 (UTC)

 * Heh, not really! :) I've removed the copyrighted text, and left a stubby thing in its place. Feel free to amend and expand upon it. Old versions of articles are archived automatically: click on the "Older versions" link at the bottom or left (or wherever) of the article, and select the version you want to view. The version of the article on The Birthday Party as it was before I removed most of it can currently be found here, and if you do get consent to use the material, you can revert the article back to that version by clicking on "Edit" and then "Save". -- Oliver P. 15:15 Mar 16, 2003 (UTC)

Image?
Does anyone know what happened to the image that used to be on the page? Is there a way to find out what happened to it? --Qirex 10:37, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Errors???
In para 3 of the London and beyond section we here about PEW - first mention - he was the bassist who died after leaving the band, but we have never been told when he joined (or am I missing something? Ianguy 13:13, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

the 2nd para in the Boys Next Door section refers to Pew joining. Design 00:55, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Additional info required
Second paragraph in, it states the band was "championed by John Peel", supposedly through his "Peel Sessions", although The Birthday Party didn't appear on Peel Sessions until 1987, long after the band broke up. If he played them on his radio show, or had some other role in promoting this band then it needs to be stated, prefferably with dates.

[6] The quote sounds good, but is it really a good source? We should have something better eg. popular magazine of the time's article, newspapers, radio reviews etc.

Also, can someone get an exact quote for "Ian Johnstone's Cave biography" in reference to the name change pls? Joelsuf (talk) 07:17, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Associated acts
Question: Why are Black Flag and Diamanda Galás listed as "associated acts"? I mean, I love both of them, but I don't think Birthday Party shared members with Black Flag, and I don't think any of them ended up in Diamanda's band. Did someone misunderstand "associated acts" as "similar musicians" or something? I'm going to remove this -- if I'm wrong, revert it. 66.56.20.126 (talk) 14:18, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Gothic Rock
How is their music so different from other Gothic Rock music? (Albert Mond (talk) 06:37, 20 September 2009 (UTC))

 * If nothing else, this was a tag they eschewed. Their (arguably) most popular song, "Release the Bats", was a misappropriated parody of the genre.  I'm not sure whether an artist's self-conception should weigh into their appraisal by external entities such as online encyclopedias, but if we're agreed that it should (which I'm not saying we have to be), then the 'goth rock' tag should be here avoided.  Colinclarksmith (talk) 22:28, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Doors
The birthday party seem musically to be highly influenced by the Doors. Is it just me or are there references to this out there? PeterGrecian (talk) 20:31, 26 September 2009 (UTC)
 * There are some similarities between later Nick Cave songs and The Doors' songs: Cave's "Supernaturally" has been compared to "Touch Me", and Cave's "Desperanto" (recorded by Marianne Faithfull) has been compared to "Break on Through". There is however, a lineage of sorts dealing with audience confrontation: from Julian Beck's Living Theater to Jim Morrison to Iggy Pop and Alan Vega to The Birthday Party. Certainly the Birthday Party were familiar with the Doors, especially the Absolutely Live double LP, but more directly influenced by Iggy and The Stooges (who was directly influenced by Jim Morrison).--Design (talk) 10:48, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Des Heffner
For me, Des Heffner is a member, because Mick Harvey left The Birthday PArty, unlike Tracy Pew, who was jailed and forced to be out of the band, but not an ex-member. Probably for that reason Barry Adamson and Harry Howard weren't real members. Francodamned (talk) 21:16, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

 * I'm going to disagree with you on that one. I see your point and I think it's valid - unlike Adamson or Harry Howard, Heffner was on tour replacing a member who'd quit (Harvey), not one on leave (Pew).  However, I don't think that Heffner was ever considered to be "in" the band, but rather a temporary substitute member acquired in a pinch and considered impermanent pending further post-tour discussions on what was to come of the band (which, of course, resulted in their disbanding.)  Every secondary source that I've read on the subject has given me the impression that this was the case, and certainly all primary sources from the band themselves (e.g., their official website, Cave's acceptance speech to the ARIA Hall of Fame) tell the story as the Birthday Party only ever having the five official members.  So I'm going to remove Heffner from the infobox and relegate him to the "temporary touring members" sub-section of the members section, but if you can show me a source that declares him having been "in" the band officially, we can do it your way.  Fair enough?  Colinclarksmith (talk) 21:38, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

More info!
This page needs more info on the factors aiding their success, particularly pre move to london. Was the clip for shivers televised? where? when? What interviews did they have? What radio stations were they played on? What are some of the bigger concerts they played? What local tours did they do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joelsuf (talk • contribs) 23:13, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds like some good ideas for the article! You should go ahead and add some of that info if you're able.  Colinclarksmith (talk) 23:17, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Mick Harvey on vocals
Which Party tracks does Mick Harvey sing on? P.S. Death by Drowning sounds a little like neither Nick nor Rowland sang on it Edward Roussac (talk) 08:03, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

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Main image
I have replaced the main image of the article to one which includes all five members. The previous image only included four members.Design (talk) 10:27, 30 July 2017 (UTC)

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title: Talk:The Birthday Party (band)