text:
Industrial Records

Industrial Records is a record label established in 1976 by industrial music and visual arts group Throbbing Gristle. The group created the label primarily for self-releases but also signed several other groups and artists. The label gave a name to the industrial music genre.

Background
Artists released through the label included Cabaret Voltaire, Clock DVA, SPK, Thomas Leer & Robert Rental, The Leather Nun, plus outrage artist Monte Cazazza, the author William S. Burroughs' auditory works, and a solo album by Throbbing Gristle member Chris Carter.

A notable departure from the industrial form of the label was the blues standard "Stormy Weather" sung by Elisabeth Welch, taken from the soundtrack of Derek Jarman's film The Tempest.

The label's first LP was Throbbing Gristle's debut LP The Second Annual Report, which was limited to 786 copies. It came in bootleg-like packaging: a plain white card sleeve with glued-on xerox information strips.

The Industrial Records logo is a stark black and white depiction a low-definition photo of an Auschwitz crematory.

In 2011, the label had an official "re-activation" as Throbbing Gristle's contract with Mute Records had expired. Since the band has permanently disbanded following the "death" of Sleazy, the label's plan is to re-release the original Throbbing Gristle albums (The Second Annual Report, D.o.A: The Third and Final Report, 20 Jazz Funk Greats, Heathen Earth, and Greatest Hits) on the label. Originally intended to be released all at once on 26 September 2011, the label had to delay due to a Sony DADC warehouse fire in London. The new plan was to release a new album chronologically once every week starting on Halloween 2011 with The Second Annual Report and ending 28 November with Throbbing Gristle's Greatest Hits.

There has been no comment on releasing any other artists' works or new content after the Throbbing Gristle releases.

Discography

 * IR 0002 - Throbbing Gristle - The Second Annual Report (LP)
 * IR 0003 - Throbbing Gristle - United/Zyklon B Zombie (7")
 * IR 0004 - Throbbing Gristle - D.o.A: The Third and Final Report (LP)
 * IR 0005 - Monte Cazazza - To Mom on Mother's Day (7")
 * IR 0006 - The Leather Nun - Slow Death EP (7")
 * IR 0007 - Thomas Leer & Robert Rental - The Bridge (LP)
 * IR 0008 - Throbbing Gristle - 20 Jazz Funk Greats (LP)
 * IR 0009 - Throbbing Gristle - Heathen Earth (LP)
 * IR 0010 - Monte Cazazza - Something For Nobody (7")
 * IR 0011 - Surgical Penis Klinik - Meat Processing Section (7")
 * IR 0012 - Elisabeth Welch - Stormy Weather (7")
 * IR 0013 - Throbbing Gristle - Subhuman/Something Came Over Me (7")
 * IR 0014 - Dorothy - I Confess (7")
 * IR 0015 - Throbbing Gristle - Adrenalin/Distant Dreams (Part Two) (7")
 * IR 0016 - William S. Burroughs - Nothing Here Now But The Recordings (LP)
 * IRC 00 - Throbbing Gristle - Best Of.... Volume I (Cass)
 * IRC 01 - Throbbing Gristle - Best Of.... Volume II (Cass)
 * IRC 02 - Throbbing Gristle - At the ICA London (Cass)
 * IRC 04 - Throbbing Gristle - At the Nag's Head, High Wycombe (Cass)
 * IRC 05 - Throbbing Gristle - At the Brighton Polytechnic (Cass)
 * IRC 06 - Throbbing Gristle - At Nuffield Theatre, Southampton (Cass)
 * IRC 07 - Throbbing Gristle - At the Rat Club (Cass)
 * IRC 08 - Throbbing Gristle - At the Highbury Roundhouse (Cass)
 * IRC 09 - Throbbing Gristle - At the Art School Winchester (Cass)
 * IRC 10 - Throbbing Gristle - At the Rat Club The Valentino Rooms (Cass)
 * IRC 11 - Throbbing Gristle - At the Brighton Polytechnic (Cass)
 * IRC 12 - Throbbing Gristle - At the Architectural Association (Cass)
 * IRC 13 - Throbbing Gristle - At Goldsmith's College (Cass)
 * IRC 14 - Throbbing Gristle - At the Industrial Training College (Cass)
 * IRC 15 - Throbbing Gristle - At the London Film Makers Co-Op (Cass)
 * IRC 16 - Throbbing Gristle - At the Crypt Club (Cass)
 * IRC 17 - Throbbing Gristle - At Centro Iberico (Cass)
 * IRC 18 - Throbbing Gristle - At Ajanta Cinema (Cass)
 * IRC 19 - Throbbing Gristle - At Now Society (Cass)
 * IRC 20 - Throbbing Gristle - At the Factory (Cass)
 * IRC 21 - Throbbing Gristle - At Guild Hall (Cass)
 * IRC 22 - Throbbing Gristle - At The Y.M.C.A. (Cass)
 * IRC 23 - Throbbing Gristle - Pastimes/Industrial Muzak (Cass)
 * IRC 24 - Throbbing Gristle - At Butlers Wharf (Cass)
 * IRC 25 - Throbbing Gristle - At Leeds Fan Club (Cass)
 * IRC 26 - Throbbing Gristle - At Scala Cinema (Cass)
 * IRC 27 - The Leather Nun - At Scala Cinema, London/Music Palais Kungsgatan (Cass)
 * IRC 28 - Monte Cazazza - At Leeds Fan Club/Scala, London/Oundle School (Cass)
 * IRC 29 - Throbbing Gristle - At Goldsmiths College (Cass)
 * IRC 30 - Throbbing Gristle - At Oundle Public School (Cass)
 * IRC 31 - Clock DVA - White Souls In Black Suits (Cass)
 * IRC 32 - Chris Carter - The Space Between (Cass)
 * IRC 33 - Throbbing Gristle - At Sheffield University (Cass)
 * IRC 34 - Richard H. Kirk - Disposable Half-Truths (Cass)
 * IRC 35 - Cabaret Voltaire - 1974 - 1976 (Cass)
 * (none) - Throbbing Gristle - The Taste of TG (CD)
 * (none) - Throbbing Gristle - TG Now (CD)
 * (none) - Throbbing Gristle - Live December 2004 A Souvenir of Camber Sands (2xCDr)
 * IR 2009/4 - Throbbing Gristle - The Third Mind Movements (CD)

title: Industrial Records


text:
Talk:Grampa Simpson

Children
Why can't Abbie be in this section? She is his daughter. Herbert has only ever featured in two episodes. Whether or not her character is 'major' does not change the fact that she is one of his children, and so should be listed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.141.14 (talk) 21:38, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I agree. Besides, it's not like Herb Powell was any more important (he only had one more episode than her, which is still not really enough to separate him from her or make him more than a "one-time joke") Weedle McHairybug (talk) 22:17, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
 * It is the context of the episodes, not the number of them, which separate the two. faithless   (speak)  22:22, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Article title
About three years ago, Mhavril39 broached the subject of this article's title, and it's a topic that I'd like to bring up again. Is there any particular reason why this article is called "Abraham Simpson" rather than "Grampa Simpson"? "Grampa Simpson" is the name by which the character is most predominantly known, both in and out of the show, and I would guess that it's the name by which most readers might search for an encyclopedia article about the character. It would make sense to refer to this character by his "legal name" if this were a biography, but it isn't - it's an article about a fictional character, and treating it like a biography would violate WP:WAF. I propose that we move this article over the Grampa Simpson redirect. A Thousand Doors (talk) 16:38, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: consensus to move to Grandpa Simpson, there is some conflict as to spelling (perhaps this should be discussed in future) but a clear consensus for the move in general (non-admin closure) Bob House 884 (talk) 22:39, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Abraham Simpson → Grandpa Simpson – It seems to me that "Grandpa Simpson" (or "Grampa Simpson") is the name which this character is most often referred to, both in and out of the show, and I think that it is the name by which readers might search for an encyclopedia article on the character. It would make sense to refer to this character by his "legal name" if this were a biography, but it isn't – it's an article about a fictional character, and treating it like a biography would violate WP:WAF. It's the same reason why the Bart Simpson article isn't titled "Bartholomew Simpson" – that's not the name by which the character is known. For comparison, a Google News search for "grandpa simpson" "the simpsons" returns 144 results; a search for "grampa simpson" "the simpsons" returns 88; a search for "abraham simpson" "the simpsons" returns only 14. A Thousand Doors (talk) 11:02, 13 May 2011 (UTC) Support but only if we go with Grampa, which is how they spell it. C T J F 8 3 14:41, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Support; sound reasoning. Powers T 12:32, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:COMMONNAME. Jenks24 (talk) 14:10, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * To clarify, I support a move to Grandpa Simpson only. It is clearly shown to be the most common name by the results above. Even if the show creators officially name the character "Grampa", Wikipedia does not use official names, it uses the most common name. Jenks24 (talk) 09:21, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Scorpion. C T J F 8 3  15:28, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment I'm happy to support "Grampa" rather than "Grandpa" – I'd personally be happy with either. You say that "Grampa" is how they spell it, but where exactly? Is this on the official Simpsons website, or in an official book? A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 18:06, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * http://thesimpsons.com/characters/home.htm and The Simpsons: A Complete Guide to Our Favorite Family spell it Grampa, as does Grampa vs. Sexual Inadequacy. C T J F 8 3  21:48, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay, thank you for pointing that out. A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 16:30, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

 * Oppose too many ways to spell grandpa/grampa/etc. 184.144.163.181 (talk) 04:01, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Not really a good reason. C T J F 8 3  21:48, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose In techinal terms, Grampa is what he is most referred to, so should we move it there? While we're at it, most people call Homer just Homer, rather than "Homer Simpson", so lets move that one too. He has been called Abe/Abraham and Grampa numerous times over the series, so it really could go either way, so WP:COMMONNAME does not apply. But, his "real" name is Abraham, so we should keep it here. -- Scorpion 0422  18:08, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * You make a good point, and I was ready to change my position, until I did some thinking. There's several instances where we don't use their first and last name for the article title Mr. Burns instead of Charles/Montgomery Burns, Sideshow Bob instead of Robert Terwilliger, Fat Tony instead of Anthony D'Amico, Reverend Timothy Lovejoy, instead of just Timothy Lovejoy (actually reverend should be removed from the title), Comic Book Guy instead of Jeff Albertson, Krusty the Clown instead of Herschel Krustofski, and Groundskeeper Willie instead of William McDougal. I know some are just one episode names, but some aren't. But we also have characters supporting your view, Clancy Wiggum instead of Chief Wiggum, Hans Moleman instead of just Moleman, Waylon Smithers instead of Smithers, Ned Flanders instead of Flanders, Joe Quimby instead of Mayor Quimby. We should use this to standardize the naming. C T J F 8 3  00:19, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Using full names is fine when needed for disambiguation purposes (as would be the case with Homer or Flanders or Moleman). In other cases, we should use the most common name -- and the normal WP:NCPEOPLE guidelines don't apply because these are characters, not people.  So Reverend Lovejoy, for instance, would be the preferred title (heck, I didn't even know he had a first name) because that's how he is best known.  Powers T 02:21, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Oppose why move? There is an good redirect and Abraham Simpson is his real name.  Oups, forgot to sign.  Also, when 1 more person said "Support" or "Oppose" I am asking for uninvolved help from an sysop to evaluate consensus.   EBE123  talkContribs 14:40, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by "real name"? Powers T 14:51, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Why would you ask for help with 5 days left in the discussion? By real name the user means Abraham is his name, not Grampa/Grandpa. C T J F 8 3  20:53, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * He's a fictional character. His name is whatever the scripts say it is.  Powers T 13:36, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * But, he's just as commonly referred to as Abe/Abraham, particularily in the earlier seasons of the series. Like I said above, the article really could go with either name, but I prefer Abraham as it's his "real" name. -- Scorpion 0422  18:33, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I still don't know what "'real' name" means in regards to a fictional character. Powers T 00:01, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Within the context of the show, Abraham Simpson is his given name and Grampa is a nickname. Why is that so difficult to understand? -- Scorpion 0422  00:05, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well why didn't you say so? But regardless, I don't see any reason to favor a character's fictional given name over his fictional nickname, if the latter is more common.  Powers T 11:26, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not so sure that it's true to say that the character is "just as commonly referred to as Abe/Abraham". From my casual viewing of the show, it seems to me that he's predominantly referring to as "Grampa" or "Grampa Simpson", even by characters not within the family (I seem to recall Dr. Hibbert calling him Grampa, for example). If I'm remembering correctly, we don't even learn that Abraham is Grampa's "real" name until the end of the fourth season. Hence why I feel that the article should be moved to "Grampa Simpson", or some other equivalent. A Thousand Doors (talk | contribs) 21:17, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Support, obvious recognizable common name; will actually tell people what the article is about instead of belittling most of them for their ignorance.--Kotniski (talk) 16:16, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:COMMONNAME, though it should be "Grampa Simpson" per CTJF. – Harry Blue5 (talk • contribs) 17:59, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Support move to Grampa Simpson per WP:UCN. I think it's obviously the more common way to refer to the character, both within the series universe and without. Good Ol’factory (talk) 10:19, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the google searches in the nom clearly indicate that the character is more commonly referred to as "Grandpa" outside of the "universe", while I agree with you that he is commonly referred to as "Grampa" in-universe. Jenks24 (talk) 16:37, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Support - Yes I am aware that his first name is Abraham but I still think he is known as Grandpa. Marcus   Qwertyus   15:07, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Kauffner (talk) 09:25, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Support --- He is indeed referred to as "Grandpa" more often than his full name. SwisterTwister (talk) 22:06, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

English descent?
When does it say anything about Grampa's English heritage in the show? If anything he is an immigrant from an unknown country (probably Ireland)!--90.210.248.36 (talk) 17:30, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

What is it with you "irish" fanboy's in america? Everyone's got to be of Irish descent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.242.180 (talk) 14:49, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

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Which is correct ??
your dad going to be great grandpa so do i ?? or so am I >?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:A060:5600:8841:3879:F82D:D37F (talk) 23:06, 12 April 2018 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Grampa Simpson


text:
Maurizio Costanzo

Maurizio Costanzo (28 August 1938 – 24 February 2023) was an Italian television host, journalist, screenwriter, and film director.

Biography
Costanzo began his career as a journalist, first as a contributing writer to Paese Sera and then as managing editor of the weekly Grazia. In the late 1970s, he was the founding editor of the newspaper L'Occhio. Parallel to his career as a journalist, he worked as a radio and TV host, where he became known for his subtle, low-profile irony. His most popular show, Bontà loro was a staple of RAI's programming but he was forced to resign after news broke that he was a member of the Propaganda 2 masonic lodge. Costanzo then moved to Silvio Berlusconi's main TV station Canale 5, where he hosted the Maurizio Costanzo Show. It was the first Italiano talk show. The program worked as a talent scout and launched many Italian artists and showmen (like Alessandro Bergonzoni, Dario Vergassola, Walter Nudo, Daniele Luttazzi, Ricky Memphis, David Riondino, Stefano Nosei, Nick Novecento, Claudio Bisio, Platinette, and Enzo Iacchetti), contributing to the popularity of as many others (like Valerio Mastandrea, Giobbe Covatta, Enrico Brignano, Giampiero Mughini, and Afef Jnifen.

Costanzo was the artistic director of Canale 5 until 2009. In 2010 he returned to RAI, presenting the talk show Bontà sua. Since 2011 he also collaborated with Radio Manà Manà.

Costanzo was the "" (an aesthetical and rhetorical consultant for public appearances) of many Italian political leaders. He was a professor at the Università degli Studi Niccolò Cusano.

Costanzo also wrote screenplays for several films. In 1977 he wrote and directed his first and to these days last film, Melodrammore. In 1966 he co-wrote the lyrics of the song "Se telefonando", which was popularized by Mina.

On 14 May 1993, Costanzo, who had expressed delight at the arrest of Sicilian Mafia boss Salvatore Riina, was almost killed by a bomb as he drove down a Rome street; 23 people were injured.

Personal life and death
Costanzo was married four times. In 1963 he married Lori Sammartino, a journalist and photographer fourteen years his senior. He later married another journalist, Flaminia Morando, who left her husband Alberto Michelini for Costanzo. Costanzo and Morando had two children: Camilla (born 1973) and Saverio (born 1975); they divorced in the late 1970s. From 1983 to 1986 Costanzo lived with the actress, voice actress, screenwriter and director Simona Izzo. On 7 June 1989, he married the TV presenter Marta Flavi, but they separated in December 1990 and divorced in 1995. On his 57th birthday, 28 August 1995, Costanzo married Maria De Filippi, a television host and producer, who had been living with him since 1990. In 2004, the couple adopted a 12-year-old boy. Maurizio Costanzo has a strong connection to the village of Ansedonia, in the province of Grosseto, where he had a residence for decades and spent his holidays there together with Maria de Filippi.

Costanzo died on 24 February 2023 at the private clinic Paideia of Rome at the age of 84. His funerals were officiated on 27 February 2023 in the Basilica of Santa Maria in Montesanto in Rome, after which he was buried in the Campo Verano cemetery.

Screenwriter

 * 1968 – A qualsiasi prezzo, by Emilio P. Miraglia
 * 1969 – I quattro del pater noster, by Ruggero Deodato
 * 1969 – Il giovane normale, by Dino Risi
 * 1970 – Cerca di capirmi, by Mariano Laurenti
 * 1976 – Al piacere di rivederla, by Marco Leto
 * 1976 – Bordella, by Pupi Avati
 * 1976 – La casa dalle finestre che ridono, by Pupi Avati
 * 1977 – L'altra metà del cielo, by Franco Rossi
 * 1977 – Una giornata particolare, by Ettore Scola
 * 1977 – Tutti defunti... tranne i morti, by Pupi Avati
 * 1978 – Melodrammore, by Maurizio Costanzo
 * 1978 – Jazz band – Film TV, by Pupi Avati
 * 1979 – Cinema!!! – Film TV, by Pupi Avati
 * 1983 – Zeder, by Pupi Avati
 * 2003 – Per sempre, by Alessandro Di Robilant
 * 2005 – Troppo belli, by Ugo Fabrizio Giordani
 * 2007 – Voce del verbo amore, by Andrea Manni

title: Maurizio Costanzo


text:
Talk:Marshall McLuhan

Wikipedia Ambassador Program assignment
This article is the subject of an educational assignment at Georgetown University supported by the Wikipedia Ambassador Program during the 2011 Q3 term. Further details are available on the course page.

Above message substituted from on 14:34, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

****SOMETHING MISSING HERE****
Hi, I don't know the solution but thought the editors of the page should know that someone has added some text saying ****SOMETHING MISSING HERE**** in the middle of the content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.186.212.26 (talk) 01:12, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

 * Thanks for letting us know. This problem has already been taken care of. Most of the time, when a page gets a lot of exposure, there is a flurry of attempts to improve it or vandalize it. Most of the vandal edits don't last more than a few minutes.  — jmcgnh  (talk) (contribs)  07:16, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Grammar
Second paragraph of "Legacy": The text "who would later wrote" should be "who would later write" or "who later wrote"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.134.106.245 (talk) 13:51, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 July 2017
Change "Massage" to "Message" in "The Medium Is the Massage: An Inventory of Effects (1967)". It is in the hyperlinked contents. Thank you. 47.158.44.251 (talk) 13:57, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: PLEASE NOTE: "The Medium is the MASSAGE" is the correct title of the book. regards,  DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  15:19, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 July 2017
Change "The main concept of McLuhan's argument (later elaborated upon in The Medium is the Massage) is that new technologies..." to "The main concept of McLuhan's argument (later elaborated upon in The Medium is the Message) is that new technologies...".

Note: Change from "Massage" to "Message". 204.27.169.105 (talk) 15:13, 21 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: PLEASE NOTE: "The Medium is the MASSAGE" is the correct title of the book. regards,  DRAGON BOOSTER   ★  15:19, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Heritage Minutes
There's a Historica Canada Heritage Minute dedicated to Marshall McLuhan which may be useful to add to the External Links section.

https://www.historicacanada.ca/content/heritage-minutes/marshall-mcluhan

Smelsela (talk) 16:02, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

Spelling error
Is it the title of his book "The Medium is the Massage" or Message? Pick one that is correct as it appears with both spellings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.216.144.200 (talk) 19:17, 21 July 2017 (UTC)

 * The title of the 1967 book is The Medium Is the Massage, a pun on "the medium is the message" which is not the title of a book but a phrase McLuhan coined earlier. I didn't see "The Medium Is the Message" given as a book title in the article (but maybe someone already fixed it. It is a bit confusing). ---Sluzzelin talk  02:36, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

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Woody Allen Appearance
There has to be room in this article for the fact that McLuhan appeared as himself in the Woody Allen movie, Annie Hall. That must be something of an apotheosis in pop cultural terms. Get Jordan Peterson a cameo in a Tarantino pic and you'll ave an analog.
 * It is mentioned in the life and career section. Hrodvarsson (talk) 02:24, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Historical accuracy

 * However, with the arrival of the Internet and the World Wide Web, interest was renewed in his work and perspectives

This is a revisionist take in some sense. I was deep into McLuhan in the late 1980s, and the tech community at the time was very much heavily into his philosophy. In other words, the idea that interest waned in McLuhan isn’t true. It’s just that mainstream information technology at the time was business and finance-oriented. Computer science departments were filled to the brim with students wearing suits and ties, not philosophers of science wishing to understand how the internet was going to change culture and the media. This is one reason why, quite ironically and paradoxically, some of the biggest roadblocks and opponents to early internet adoption were the mainstream tech behemoths (Microsoft, etc.) They didn’t care about McLuhan’s vision until they could make a buck from it. For this reason, the above statement reflects their perspective, not that of the wider community. It would take a really deep dive into old periodicals to fix this mess, but the people at the vanguard of technology never lost interest in his work and perspectives. I should also note that the statement that "interest was renewed" is even more incorrect when one considers that students of other disciplines, such as media, journalism, and broadcasting, were learning about McLuhan and his legacy before the rise of the internet. To summarize and conclude: I don’t know where this idea that interest waned and was later renewed in McLuhan comes from. It’s simply not true. The only thing I can surmise is that some writer made it up. Given that McLuhan was a hero of the counterculture of the 1960s, one wonders if the idea that interest in his work waned was a reactionary talking point from conservatives in the early 1980s. Viriditas (talk) 01:31, 24 March 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Marshall McLuhan


text:
Branding

Branding may refer to:

Physical markings

 * Making a mark, typically by charring:
 * Wood branding, permanently marking, by way of heat, typically of wood (also applied to plastic, cork, leather, etc.)
 * Livestock branding, the marking of animals to indicate ownership such as
 * Human branding, body modification done for various reasons, voluntary and involuntary, throughout history
 * Freeze branding, permanently marking by way of cold
 * Vehicle title branding, a permanent designation indicating that a vehicle has been "written off"

Marketing

 * Brand, a name, logo, slogan, and/or design scheme associated with a product or service
 * Branding (promotional), the distribution of merchandise with a brand name or symbol imprinted
 * Brand management, the application of marketing techniques to a specific product, product line, or brand
 * Employer branding, the application of brand management to recruitment marketing and internal brand engagement
 * Internet branding, brand management on the Internet
 * Nation branding, the application of marketing and brand management techniques for the advancement of a country
 * Place branding, the application of marketing and place promotion techniques for the advancement of country subdivisions (mostly tourism and investments)
 * Personal branding, people and their careers marketed as brands (also reputation equity)
 * Co-branding, two companies or brands partnering on a product or service
 * Branding agency, a type of marketing agency, group or a firm which specializes in creating brands
 * Faith branding, the application of marketing techniques to religious institutions or individuals
 * School branding, the application of marketing techniques to education organizations

title: Branding


text:
Talk:Cracker (band)

Members
I've added the various members to the list. I'm only confident with the ones listed as current members. The rest are based on just based on what I've been able to find on the internet and by reading liner notes from the albums. All of those people were definitely in Cracker but the dates I have them listed might be a bit dubious. I also think I could have left some people out.

bugs salcido played/toured with cracker for a while, i think around 2000 or something. he also worked on kerosene hat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.16.193.23 (talk) 19:10, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

fixed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.213.70 (talk) 03:19, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

editing needed
Could someone do something with this article? I think I may have made things worse, but whoever wrote it originally lumped info from Camper Van Beethoven and Cracker together in here and I'm not sure what should have stayed. -- Zoe

I notice there is no listing here for the "David Lowery and Johnny Hickman Live @ Acme Underground" which was recorded live during the "CMJ Music Marathon." In it seems to have all of Cracker and special performace with Brandy Wood and LP (Laura Pergolizzi). I bought this at Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0048L1L7I?m=A1EERDWRUU4BOE&ref_=v_sp_detail_page) but it is not listed on any place but Amazon and a site called "Ricks Music Archives" at http://www.ricksmusicarchives.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.42.197.105 (talk) 14:03, 22 June 2017 (UTC)

Low with new words
Hey. i have an important qestion....i rewrote low,with new words drums and i a new riff.Ive added solos that arent shredding but have a more melodic sound.me and my band are recording o a small 300 dollar recorder ,but before i use this ong i wanted to have ur permission.its really inspired me alot.and i would like u guys to somehow here it.....Heres the words.

We pick eachother up off the ground You make me happy when im feelin down Im feelin glad when you come around I think were happy with who we've found cuz bieng with you girl Im never alone Hey hey hey i think im in love cuz bieng with you girl Im never down Hey hey hey i think im in love Im feelin proud when you come around I love the sound that comes from your mouth Ive felt this way for awhile now so let me know is this feelin' goin around cuz bieng with you girl Im never alone Hey hey hey i think im in love cuz bieng with you girl Im never down Hey hey hey i think im in love (Guitar solo) cuz bieng with you girl Im never alone Hey hey hey i think im in love cuz bieng with you girl Im never down Hey hey hey i think im in love 4x (Guitar solo)

I want to use this song alot but only if u guys are cool with it.Sincerely...Corey Zamora

You basically just stole half of the lyrics and put new music to them, epic fail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.34.213.70 (talk) 03:25, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Bob's Car
I am removing Bob's Car from the album listing under Discography. It is not listed on the band's site under their regular album discography. It is listed under Tributes & Special Releases as it was only released to fan club members. If someone wishes to expand the article to include Cracker's tributes and special releases, Bob's car should be included there. --Stangbat 03:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

UK chart positions
from Guinness book of hit singles & albums: --Jameboy (talk) 00:18, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * 1994 Low (re-entry) #43
 * 1994 Get off this #41
 * 1994 Kerosene Hat #44

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title: Talk:Cracker (band)


text:
Talk:Skid row

Band versus location
WHat is there apart from the band? -- Tarquin

23 Skidoo. The intersection of 23rd and East Yesler in Seattle. AKA Skid Row, Skid Road. I remember my Mom telling me back in the late 1950's. When we were driving past, there was a black man with no legs on a creeper pushing himself about. I had never seen a black man and certainly not one without legs. Sorry, just an anecdote. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:243:C501:F300:B1B4:9037:D1D0:6A3D (talk) 19:28, 24 June 2016 (UTC)

The original meaning of the term -- the place where logs roll down a hill and into the water for lumberjacks to move them down to the mill. Or the second meaning of the term -- the bad part of town. -- Zoe

 * That would be skid row. --mav

This is the same as red dwarf(stellar object)/Red Dwarf (television)(scifi sitcom) and quantum leap(physics term)/Quantum Leap(scifi drama). --mav

I don't see that at all. Skid Row would have two capital letters no matter what the context. -- Zoe

 * Why? The other contexts are not proper nouns but just regular nouns. --mav

They're place names. -- Zoe

You misunderstand - they are place name types. For example one can talk about the skid row in Los Angeles (note lower case). But the proper name of the place would be Los Angles Skid Row, not just Skid Row. --mav

I disagree, but I'm not going to press it since we haven't had to deal with it up to this time. I'm sure it WILL come up. So, what about the original one, in Seattle? -- Zoe

 * IMO opinion when somebody writes Skid Row (note caps) they almost always are talking about the band. Therefore dominant usage wins. The name of the skid row in Seattle would be Seattle's Skid Row in the same way as there is a San Francisco's China Town. Make a disambiguation block at the top of this page. --mav

 * Mav is right, "Skid Row" is the title or formal name of a spacific place, while "skid row" is a type of place that could be named something else. Jake b 04:13, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I have never heard of the band.. sorry. For me the dominant usage is the run-down area and the Little Shop of Horrors song! Zargulon 08:51, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

I concur with Zargulon and Zoe, and I disagree with mav. Yes, skid row refers to the generic concept of a run-down area for homeless people, but Skid Row in caps, as used by most journalists, usually refers to a well-known particular Skid Row. The largest and most well-known Skid Row is Skid Row in Los Angeles. The band is obscure, as are most metal bands, due to the fact that most of them lack street cred, as opposed to people with genuine issues to sing about, like 50 Cent. It's true that the band is the first thing that comes up on Google under "skid row," but most of those Web sites (including the band's own Web site) would fail to qualify as reliable sources as to its popularity or notability.

As a better measure of the band's notability, I ran a search on the 46 million articles in InfoTrac OneFile, which your local public library should have access to unless your local library is a total joke (most English-speaking North American public libraries have InfoTrac access). Nearly all the 2,114 hits were about Skid Rows (with capitalization) in Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, and New York. And we're talking about articles in well-established publications, like U.S. News and World Report, Time, Newsweek, Variety, the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, etc. If this Skid Row band is getting any media coverage, it must be in metal-specific magazines so tiny that they aren't even carried by InfoTrac (which carries the full text of every major magazine in North America back to 1980 plus most smaller ones). --Coolcaesar 07:21, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Skid Row, the band.
Skid Row is also a band, consisting of Johnny Solinger (vocals) Rachel Bolan (bass) Snake Sabo (guitars) Scotti Hill (guitars) and Rob Hammersmith (drums). Classified as 80's hairmetal, but also loved by every genre from classical rock, to punk.

The Real Skid Row is located in Downtown Los Angeles
You can read the hell we go through at http://Robertocarbajal.itgo.com Hope to never see you there.

 * This isn't a pissing contest as to which Skid Row is the "real" one. LA's may be horrendous, but until you've seen East Hastings Street Vancouver's Downtown Eastside (one of the two original Skid Roads, with Seattle's Yesler Way) don't presume that LA's is any worse.  I've had visitors to the city from New York and Chicago express amazement at the highly-visible conditions in "our" Skid Road/Row.  LA may have borrowed the name Skid Row, as have countless other cities across North America as the term is now idiomatic in English, as is its derivative "on the skids".  But LA wasn't even a twinkle in Cecil B. deMille's eye when Vancouver's and Seattle's residents coined the name Skid Road for the back-end of their rough little settlements (1860s, roughly).  And BTW the form "Skid Row" is decidedly a Britishism, as a "row" is a British term for a street lined by houses/rowhouses, or perhaps situated on a path along a hedgerow; its original form would appear to have been Skid Road, after the method of building "roads" out of logs to skid freight over the surface of; and the Skid Row adaptation of that is likely British Columbian in ultimate derivation because of the heavy British flavour of Vancouver's dialect, especially from 1885-1914 (the opening of the railway to WWI) when the city's 4/5 male population was decidedly British-majority, and among that overwhelmingly Scots.  I can't see the "row" adaption emerging in American English by itself, except perhaps by consonantal laziness dropping the final 'd' off 'Road'.Skookum1 22:35, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Sad how canadians will argue about anything to pretend their silly little country has any usefulness.Djgranados (talk) 06:46, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

 * And just to be clear, because nobody on this talk page has spelled it out; the caps version Skid Row, derived from Skid Road, was yes originally Yesler Way in Seattle and, near-simultaneously (dates are uncertain) it was what is now the 100 block East Hastings in Vancouver - still the "heart of darkness" in that city, and notoriously so as explained previously just above. Even Angelelos are shocked, but that's not the point.  The real Skid Row/Road(s) were/are Yesler Way (although Pioneer Square-1st Ave @ Pine is "the skids" now) and, to this day, Hastings Street.  The name comes from corduroy roads that logs were "skidded" on - dragged over, basically, or in the case of Yesler or Hastings, the slope would be used to roll them down.  For some reason at both locations is where a lot of bars and hookers and "bachelors hall" SRO-type hotel accommodations concentrated, and set the model for elsewhere (no kidding); in the old days it was injured/retired loggers and miners mostly into booze, sometimes opium; now it's.....well, hell, I guess.Skookum1 06:39, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

 * That's interesting. I've always heard that the original Skid Row/Road was West Burnside in Portland, Oregon because it was the way the logs cut in the West Hills were skidded down to the Willamette. And the neighborhood below NW 14th was very raw as recently as 35 years ago, before Powell's Books was more than Just Another Used Book Store. I'll have to find some cites beyond pointing the incredulous to read Stewart Holbrook's numerous publications, or mentioning Portland's other claim to fame -- a seaport notorious for Shanghaiing sailors. -- llywrch 16:28, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

disambig
I'd prefer a disambig page for all the Skid Row related articles. I came here looking for the band (with both caps) and was redirected to this one with the small r. Let's just make the first page disambig since there are so many uses for the term. For some of the users here it's a certain street, but for me it's always been the band. *shrug* So let's disambig it. Mithridates 12:26, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I completely disagree. Skid Row (heavy metal band) has way less hit results than this article of Skid Row. Even if you deduct the number of hits from Skid Row (heavy metal band) from Skid Row its still considerably more. Skid Row appears in many dictionaries including the Oxford English Dictionary. I would say an historic article with more popularity should take president over a popular culture article. The Disambig link is very clear at the top. Furthermore if you do a google test the search results are very clear as to which is the most talked about on the internet. Mkdw talk 06:21, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Erg, let's see, the band gets its name from the concept of Skid Row, but that's not as important as the band itself? When a phrase meaning something becomes a name for a product, you know the end of the world has come....Must be a generational thing...no offense, Mithridates, but think about it; the primary meaning is what the band was meaning when they chose their name; as far as I've heard they haven't trademarked the phrase (?? perhaps in incorporation name, I guess, but...).  Skid Row/Road means one certain thing to a whole bunch of people who've never heard of the band; but they have heard of the wrong side of the tracks, the place where the bums and the junkies call home, "the skids".  I know the band had heard of it when they chose their name, if only as a common phrase and not for its history.Skookum1 06:27, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Vancouver BC vs Vancouver Wa.
It does not seem to me that the discussion about the origins of "Vancouver" are particularily relevant to the definition of "skid road". It is fine to have a link from the first (or all) "Vancouver"s to the article about that city. Vancouver Washington (a smallish city across the Columbia River from Portland Oregon) does not add any content to this article. steve --129.128.25.4 06:47, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well actually the origins of the phrase is more important in an encyclopedic sense. As per WP:NOT if this article was simply a definition it would be deleted on site. "Wikipedia is not a dictionary." Vancouver, Washington adds a huge amount to this article as its likely the place of origin for the term. An encyclopedia article about a single phrase is usually primarily about its term, usage, and relevence to contemporary times. I couldn't see any other direction this article could go with out being either deleted or off-topic. Mkdw talk 11:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm amazed no Canadian has seen this thread. Vancouver, Washington has nothing to do with this word; IIRC, 19th-century Vancouver was surrounded by farmland, & the nearest mills on that side of the Columbia would have been in either Camas/Washougal or Kelso. The Vancouver referred to in the article is the much larger city -- and major Canadian seaport -- far to the north of this suburb of Portland. Someone needs to keep this embarassing confusion out of the article. -- llywrch 16:34, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Tidying
I removed the Vancouver, Washington reference which ahd snuck its way in here, and have tried to tidy up the place/logic references, although still much to be done to keep the article from rambling back and forth; as with many articles esp re the Pacific Northwest there's a tendency for Americans (ahem) to overbuild their sections or as in the VAncouver WA case start adding out-of-context items (which is obviously why the confusion re Vancouver WA as had been added). In ref to one item I don't have time to either find a cite (or a cite-fix for, 'cause I think it's wrong):
 * ''Murray Cromwell Morgan, in his 1952 book "Skid Road", described how the loggers spent the summers in the mountains cutting down trees and how the winter snow and mud hampered operations. The out-of-work loggers would hang out on Skid Road hoping to find work and would often run out of money, sleep on the streets, and beg for food or money. This is where the connection between the operation of skidding logs and being poor and unemployed originated.

No; on what is now Hastings Street it was because of a concentration of bordellos, bars, loggers employment services, and other amenities for the working population; the begging thing didn't come along until the Depressions of the 1900s-10s and was accelerated in the 1930s; until the Great War that area had been part of a vibrant downtown, and as those of us old enough to remember remained so until the 1960s; "skid row/road" then applied more to areas north of it, towards the water; the whole of the area had been skid roads, by the way, in the logging sense. It had begun its decay into SROs and the attached bars (because of BC liquor licensing for hotels) as the shift from loggers and miners coming in looking for a place to drink and slut and sleep slacked off and also because the area where injured/retired loggers and other workers would settle because of the SROs; the specific association of Skid Row with Hastings is a later development, although supposedly it was the skid road there that cause the word to be coined (although as noted, again, skid roads were the norm in everywhere but Gastown which was built on boardwalks, if anything); not sure what citation to use here other than Major Matthews (see Gastown refs section) and other main Vancouver histories; Cromwell Morgan's logic is off to me; recounting the past in terms of current paradigms never works, and his analysis is particularly shallow, and misses the hobo jungles of the '30s completely (which spanned the area along the CPR cut, which now diagonal alspace —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skookum1 (talk • contribs) 18:19, 27 July 2007

 * First, did you finish writing your post, Skookum1?

 * Second, some of those facts must be wrong -- or incomplete. Setting aside where the term "Skid Row" originated, William Speidel in his Sons of the Profits (an irreverent history of the making of Seattle) furnishes proof that "Skid Row" was applied to Yesler Street by 1880 (p. 300). That would mean if the term originated in Vancouver, then it was before 1880 -- not the 1st decade of the 20th century. There was a settlement in the Vancouver (as in BC) area at least as the early as 1860s, so Speidel's reference does not exclude the word from originating in Vancouver. But it needs more evidence to prove. -- llywrch 05:17, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I've done my best to clear up the mess. Doubtless more could be done, but I think the article is now unembarrassing. - Jmabel | Talk 02:23, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

 * To Llywrch: Vancouver's beginnings are in the mid-1860s with the foundation of the Hastings Mill, which was moved from Brockton Point (where currents made docking difficult for ships) to the north end of Dunlevy, and "officially" Gastown was born on September 1, 1867, when Gassy Jack Deighton rowed around into the inlet to found his bar at what is now Maple Tree Square at Carrall and Water/Powell. Other entrepreneurs quickly followed and the "town" was in its beginnings by the spring of 1868; the townsite formally wasn't laid out until about 1870 when it was dubbed "Granville, B.I." (Burrard Inlet, a designation shared by Moodyville and Barnet and a few other spots) by the post office and the govt survey crews; Hastings Street from Carrall to Cambie was part of the townsite, and it was the location of the original bordellos - rough cabins and tents in the woods; the low hill from what is now Main Street down to Carrall was not a surveyed road, but the "skid road" in question, and that's still the core of the hard-core.  But yes, when the term came into use is not known specifically, and it may be that Seattle's usage is older, and became translated to Gastown/Vancouver's equivalent; Granville/Gastown mushroomed in the early 1880s and the extended streets beyond the townsite (all six blocks of it) were created around that time, including Hastings east of Carrall (Carrall is the 00-block between East and West Hastings); so it's hard to say exactly if Seattle is first or Vancouver is, unless maybe there's a provenance in early provincial newspapers (most published in Victoria and New Westminster; most likely the term might show up in the New Westminster paper(s)).  Might be a chicken-and-egg thing, or the usage might have been "in common" at the time, i.e. the loggers knew both towns, and the term might have evolved in parallel; in Gastown's case the jurisdiction of the erstwhile constable's powers didn't go past the townsite, or there was little reason/initiative to do so, so the 00-block and 100-block East, the skid road (then still largely forest on both sides) became the new concentration of sin; not that Gastown itself wasn't - mostly saloons, y'see - but the dicier stuff, including gambling and whores, seems to have been relocated to East Hastings (not named as such yet, pre-1885) from the 100-200 block West when the townsite was laid out, or at any rate got higher airs about itself; later they moved to Dupont Street (now East Pender), which in the 1890s became Chinatown (until the 1885-86 winter riots Gastown had been entirely mixed; the Chinese went at first to the southeast corner of False Creek in the wake of the riots - an area still called China Creek, at least to people long-time in the area (roughly Broadway and Clark area) and they moved into Dupont Street, which was mostly the bordellos which had had to move again farther away from Gastown's new self-conscious respectability.  In either case, Seattle or Vancouver, it's decidedly a Pacific Northwest-origin term.Skookum1 (talk) 20:40, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Wooden Block Road
I first stayed in Vancouver in the early 1960. I remember walking down Water St to what I thought was Powell St, but after checking on Google Maps it may well have been Alexander St. Parts of the asphalt were wore away, and underneath were wooden brick like blocks. I assumed at the time this was the previous road covering. And I have a foggy recollection of there still being a Sawmill across the railway track. Someone in Vancouver should check this out with the City Zarcom (talk) 07:49, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Where is Ramsey
Could whoever added the "Ramsey" para tell us where it is (!) Hugo999 (talk) 08:52, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

1956 doc by Allan King - Skid Row
Allan King, a notable Canadian Broadcasting Corporation documentarist, just died on June 15, 2009, and the CBC has a "Remembering Allan King" section of its archives up and running; one of the items, a documentary from 1956 titled "Skid Row", focuses on Vancouver's Skid Row/ aka the Downtown East Side....not sure where to fit it in the article/refs....some of its footage/content might be interesting because it's from a time when Gastown was still very much part of Skid Row...haven't watched it in full yet....Skookum1 (talk) 18:58, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Are they really "homeless" and "transient"?
See the LA section. Consider that some people want to move the poor people away but the argument against that is that the poor people LIVE there. Maybe they don't own property but does that make them "homeless"? We can say downtown is their "home" and they are not "transient" because they don't want to go anywhere else. Some of them say they don't want to be in shelters; like urban nomads in tents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.85.14.106 (talk) 23:05, 30 March 2010 (UTC)
 * You'd have to find some substantial evidence to change the definition or wording, as homeless and/or transient as described by the American Heritage Dictionary, and Oxford English Dictionary, don't including any reference to "urban nomads". Personally I've never heard of that term being used to describe a living choice with in the homeless community. Perhaps you could try writing the article Urban nomad and see if it sticks, otherwise I'd say this is close to original research. Mkdw talk 18:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Skidmore
Is it just coincidence that Portland, Oregon's skid row is around Skidmore Fountain?

If not, being close to Seattle, Vancouver, etc some mention should be made of this location as well. 166.205.143.106 (talk) 03:52, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

"The only legal safe injection site in Canada"?
This claim strikes me as being possibly outdated or inaccurate, but I'm not entirely sure. afaik, there are several such sites across Canada, including in my city of Ottawa. They are completely legal, and hand out free needles and other sterilized injection/cooking gear. Am I missing something or does the article need to be updated? 75.119.244.162 (talk) 01:45, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
 * It's probably outdated. This article hasn't been revamped in a long time. Mkdw talk 05:48, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Verifiable
The article is in need of verifiable and reliable sources. Over the years, the article has had numerous additions that are either factually inaccurate, or possibly accurate, but not recognized by reliable sources. The name has been challenged as having been applied and originating to multiple cities. To avoid further content disputes, and original research, I would like to see the article trimmed down to information that has solid reliable sources across all sections. The worst so far are Vancouver, Chicago, Philly, and the trivia section. I have gone ahead and removed unreferenced trivia information and prose sentences that have had citation needed templates on them since 2009. I have also added new CN templates to where it is required and will look to remove those after an appropriate amount of time. As such an article re-write can start with the available verifiable information and then proceed to being expanding with the addition of new reliable sources. Mkdw talk 01:54, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

 * Why have references for New York's inclusion been systematically deleted? There was an inclusion from 2007 that included the use of the term in a play Little Shop of Horrors that was deleted. Why would that have occurred? Are the little brains attempting to assert themselves? Stevenmitchell (talk) 01:03, 5 May 2013 (UTC)

 * "...little brains attempting to assert themselves?" Oh Wikipedians, sometimes you are really are those people, aren't you? 98.232.26.108 (talk) 14:37, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

I want to bring attention to a sentence in the second paragraph: Its current sense appears to have originated in the Pacific Northwest.[3] The term Pacific Northwest is **never** used in Canada as a term for South Western BC. This sentence deprecates Vancouver's most certain historical contributions to the term Skid Row. Also, the reference ([3]) needs to be accessed with a Seattle library card. This needs to be more properly cited with a more broadly (if not universally) available source. --Jrgracey (talk) 04:57, 30 August 2015 (UTC)
 * ProQuest Newsstand and ProQuest Historical Newsstand are already available at most metropolitan public libraries in the United States as well as most academic libraries. --Coolcaesar (talk) 06:46, 30 August 2015 (UTC)

Slum?
Do "skid row" and "slum" have a different shades of meaning, or connotations? If so, that should be explained in the article.

The article slum says that "skid row" and "slum" are often used interchangeably. Does that mean "not always"? Is there an example where only one of the two words is appropriate?

-- Austrian (talk) 21:25, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

In my experience, "skid row" can (but not necessarily always) refer to one specific street. I don't think the word "slum" has that single-street option, except by accident. Skid row can mean the primary street of a slum area, or it can mean slum-like conditions in general, or it can (as in "he ended up on skid row") refer literally or metaphorically to a person's current living conditions.

I don't have written citations to back this up with, but I'll see if I can find any. TooManyFingers (talk) 03:38, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

US-centric?
Clearly, as no other places are discussed. Yet the phenomonen and the moniker are universal in the English-speaking world.  >SerialNumber 54129 ...speculates 14:24, 10 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Actually, if the term is well-known elsewhere, it's merely yet another example of American cultural hegemony. Which is not notable in and of itself. Unless you have any evidence that the term is actually used to describe any neighborhood outside of the United States or Canada, I'm getting rid of that unnecessary "globalize" tag. --Coolcaesar (talk) 03:39, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Hearing no objections, I'm pulling out that unnecessary "globalize" tag and revising the geographical scope of the article. Having visited six continents and followed the international news media regularly for over 20 years, I'm quite certain at this point that it's a North American term. --Coolcaesar (talk) 04:04, 16 March 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Skid row


text:
Famicom Disk System

The Family Computer Disk System, (ファミリーコンピュータ ディスクシステム) commonly shortened to the Famicom Disk System, or just Disk System, is a peripheral for Nintendo's Family Computer home video game console, released only in Japan on February 21, 1986. It uses proprietary floppy disks called "Disk Cards" for cheaper data storage and it adds a new high-fidelity sound channel for supporting Disk System games.

Fundamentally, the Disk System serves simply to enhance some aspects already inherent to the base Famicom system, with better sound and cheaper games—though with the disadvantages of high initial price, slow speed, and lower reliability. However, this boost to the market of affordable and writable mass storage temporarily served as an enabling technology for the creation of new types of video games. This includes the vast, open world, progress-saving adventures of the best-selling The Legend of Zelda (1986) and Metroid (1986), games with a cost-effective and swift release such as the best-selling Super Mario Bros. 2, and nationwide leaderboards and contests via the in-store Disk Fax kiosks, which are considered to be forerunners of today's online achievement and distribution systems.

By 1989, the Famicom Disk System was inevitably obsoleted by the improving semiconductor technology of game cartridges. The Disk System's lifetime sales reached 4.4 million units by 1990, making it the most successful console add-on of all time, despite not being sold outside of Japan. Its final game was released in 1992, its software was discontinued in 2003, and Nintendo officially discontinued its technical support in 2007.

History
By 1985, Nintendo's Family Computer was dominating the Japanese home video game market, selling over three million units within a year and a half. Because of its success, the company had difficulty with keeping up demand for new stock, often getting flooded with calls from retailers asking for more systems. Retailers also requested for cheaper games; the cost of chips and semiconductors made cartridges expensive to make, and often cost a lot of money for both stores and consumers to purchase. Chip shortages also created supply issues. To satisfy these requests, Nintendo began thinking of ways to potentially lower the cost of games. It turned towards the home computer market for inspiration; Nintendo specifically looked to floppy disks which were quickly becoming the standard for storage media for personal computers. Floppy disks were cheap to produce and rewritable, allowing games to be easily produced during the manufacturing process. Seeing its potential, Nintendo began work on a disk-based peripheral for the Famicom.

For its proprietary diskette platform, which they dubbed the "Disk Card", Nintendo chose to base it on Mitsumi's Quick Disk media format, a cheaper alternative to floppy disks for Japanese home computers. The Disk Card format presented a number of advantages over cartridges, such as increased storage capacity that allowed for larger games, additional sound channels, and the ability to save player progress. The add-on itself was produced by Masayuki Uemura and Nintendo Research & Development 2, the same team that designed the Famicom itself. Following several delays, the Famicom Disk System was released on February 21, 1986, at a retail price of ¥15000 (US$80). The same day, Nintendo released The Legend of Zelda as a launch title, alongside disk re-releases of earlier Famicom games. Marketing material for the Disk System featured a yellow mascot character named Diskun, or Mr. Disk. The Famicom Disk System sold over 300,000 units within three months, jumping to over 2 million by the end of the year. Nintendo remained confident the Disk System would be a sure-fire success, and ensured that all future first-party releases would be exclusive to the peripheral.

Coinciding with the Disk System's release, Nintendo installed several "Disk Writer" kiosks in various toy and electronic stores across the country. These kiosks allowed customers to bring in their disk games and have a new game rewritten onto them for a ¥500 fee; blank disks could also be purchased for ¥2000. Nintendo also introduced special high-score tournaments for specific Disk System games, where players could submit their scores directly to Nintendo via "Disk Fax" machines found in retail stores. Winners would receive exclusive prizes, including Famicom-branded stationery sets and a gold-colored Punch-Out!! cartridge. Nintendo of America announced plans to release the Disk System for the Famicom's international counterpart, the Nintendo Entertainment System, however these plans were eventually scrapped.

Despite the Famicom Disk System's success and advantages over the Famicom itself, it also imposed many problems of its own. Most common was the quality of the Disk Cards; Nintendo removed the shutters on most Disk System games to reduce costs, instead placing them in a wax sleeve and clear plastic shell. The disks themselves are fragile, and the lack of a shutter made them collect dust and fingerprints, eventually rendering them unplayable as a result. Piracy was also rampant, with disk copying devices and bootleg games becoming commonplace in stores and in magazine advertisements. Third-party developers for the Disk System were also angered towards Nintendo's strict licensing terms, requiring that it receive 50% copyright ownership of any and all software released — this led to several major developers, such as Namco and Hudson Soft, refusing to produce games for it. Four months after the Disk System was released, Capcom released a Famicom conversion of Ghosts 'n Goblins on a 128k cartridge - larger than the Disk Card's 112k capacity - which, as a result, made consumers and developers less impressed with the Disk System's technological features. Retailers disliked the Disk Writer kiosks for taking up too much space and for generally being unprofitable. The Disk System's vague error messages, long loading times, and the poor quality of the rubber drive belt that spun the disks are also cited as attributing to its downfall.

By 1989, advancements in technology made cartridge games much cheaper and easier to produce, leaving the Famicom Disk System obsolete. Retailers were critical of Nintendo simply abandoning the Disk Writers and leaving stores with large kiosks that took up vital space, while companies began to release or move their games from the Disk System to a standard cartridge; towards the end of development, Squaresoft ported Final Fantasy over to the Famicom as a cartridge game, with its own battery backup save feature. Nintendo officially discontinued the Famicom Disk System in 1990, selling around 4.4 million units total. Disk writing services were still kept in operation until September 30, 2003, while technical services were provided up until October 31, 2007.

Hardware versions
Sharp released the Twin Famicom, a Famicom model that features a built-in Disk System.

Disk Writer and Disk Fax kiosks
Widespread copyright violation in Japan's predominantly personal-computer-based game rental market inspired corporations to petition the government to ban the rental of all video games in 1984. With games then being available only via full purchase, demand rose for a new and less expensive way to access more games. In 1986, as video gaming had increasingly expanded from computers into the video game console market, Nintendo advertised a promise to install 10,000 Famicom Disk Writer kiosks in toy and hobby stores across Japan within one year. These jukebox style stations allowed users to copy from a rotating stock of the latest games to their disks and keep each one for an unlimited time. To write an existing disk with a new game from the available roster was ¥500 (then about US$3.25 and 1/6 of the price of many new games). Instruction sheets were given by the retailer, or available by mail order for ¥100. Some game releases, such as Kaette Kita Mario Bros., were exclusive to these kiosks.

In 1987, Disk Writer kiosks in select locations were also provisioned as Disk Fax systems as Nintendo's first online concept. Players could take advantage of the dynamic rewritability of blue floppy disk versions of Disk System games (such as Famicom Grand Prix: F1 Race and Golf Japan Course) in order to save their high scores at their leisure at home, and then bring the disk to a retailer's Disk Fax kiosk, which collated and transmitted the players' scores via fax to Nintendo. Players participated in a nationwide leaderboard, with unique prizes.

The kiosk service was very popular and remained available until 2003. In subsequent console generations, Nintendo would relaunch this online national leaderboard concept with the home satellite-based Satellaview subscription service in Japan from 1995 to 2000 for the Super Famicom. It would relaunch the model of games downloadable to rewritable portable media from store kiosks, with the Nintendo Power service in Japan which is based on rewritable flash media cartridges for the Super Famicom and Game Boy from 1997 to 2007.

Calling the Disk Writer "one of the coolest things Nintendo ever created", Kotaku says modern "digital distribution could learn from [the Disk Writer]", and that the system's premise of game rental and achievements would still be innovative in today's retail and online stores. NintendoLife said it "was truly ground-breaking for its time and could be considered a forerunner of more modern distribution methods [such as] Xbox Live Arcade, PlayStation Network, and Steam".

Technology
The device is connected to the Famicom console by plugging its RAM Adapter cartridge into the system's cartridge port, and attaching that cartridge's cable to the disk drive. The RAM Adapter contains 32 kilobytes (KB) of RAM for temporarily caching program data from disk, 8 KB of RAM for tile and sprite data storage, and an ASIC named the 2C33. The ASIC acts as a disk controller, plus single-cycle wavetable-lookup synthesizer sound hardware. Finally, embedded in the 2C33 is an 8KB BIOS ROM. The Disk Cards used are double-sided, with a total capacity of 112 KB per disk. Many games span both sides of a disk and a few span multiple disks, requiring the user to switch at some point during gameplay. The Disk System is capable of running on six C-cell batteries or the supplied AC adapter. Batteries usually last five months with daily game play. The inclusion of a battery option is due to the likelihood of a standard set of AC plugs already being occupied by a Famicom and a television.

The Disk System's Disk Cards are somewhat proprietary 71 mm × 76 mm (2.8 × 3 in) 56K-per-side double-sided floppy. They are a slight modification of Mitsumi's Quick Disk 71 mm 2.8 in square disk format which is used in a handful of Japanese computers and various synthesizer keyboards, along with a few word processors. QuickDisk drives are in a few devices in Europe and North America. Mitsumi already had close relations with Nintendo, as it manufactured the Famicom and NES consoles, and possibly other Nintendo hardware.

Modifications to the standard Quick Disk format include the "NINTENDO" moulding along the bottom of each Disk Card. In addition to branding the disk, this acts as a rudimentary form of copy protection - a device inside the drive bay contains raised protrusions which fit into their recessed counterparts, ostensibly ensuring that only official disks are used. If a disk without these recessed areas is inserted, the protrusions cannot raise, and the system will not allow the game to be loaded. This was combined with technical measures in the way data was stored on the disk to prevent users from physically swapping copied disk media into an official shell. However, both of these measures were defeated by pirate game distributors; in particular, special disks with cutouts alongside simple devices to modify standard Quick Disks were produced to defeat the physical hardware check, enabling rampant piracy. An advertisement containing a guide for a simple modification to a Quick Disk to allow its use with a Famicom Disk System was printed in at least one magazine.

Games
There are about 200 games in the Famicom Disk System's library. Some are FDS exclusives, some are Disk Writer exclusives, and many were re-released years later on the cartridge format such as The Legend of Zelda for NES in 1987 and for Famicom in 1994. The most notable FDS originals include The Legend of Zelda, Zelda II: The Adventure of Link, Kid Icarus, Metroid, and Akumajō Dracula (Castlevania).

Square Co., Ltd. had a branch called Disk Original Group, a software label that published Disk System games from Japanese PC software companies. The venture was largely a failure and almost pushed a pre-Final Fantasy Square into bankruptcy. Final Fantasy was to be released for the FDS, but a disagreement over Nintendo's copyright policies caused Square to change its position and release the game as a cartridge.

Nintendo released a disk version of Super Mario Bros. in addition to the cartridge version. The Western-market Super Mario Bros. 2 originated from a disk-only game called Yume Kōjō: Doki Doki Panic.

Nintendo utilized the cheaper and more dynamic disk medium for a Disk Writer exclusive, as an early advergame. Kaettekita Mario Bros. (lit. The Return of Mario Bros.) is a remastered version of Mario Bros. with enhanced jump controls and high score saving, plus a new slot machine minigame co-branded for the Nagatanien food company.

The final FDS game release was Janken Disk Jō in December 1992, a rock paper scissors game featuring the Disk System mascot, Disk-kun.

Legacy
The Famicom Disk System briefly served as an enabling technology for the creation of a new wave of home console video games and a new type of video game experience, mostly due to tripling the size of cheap game storage compared to affordable cartridge ROMs, and by storing gamers' progress within their vast new adventures. These games include the open world design and enduring series launches of The Legend of Zelda (1986) and Metroid (1986), with its launch game Zelda becoming very popular and leading to sequels which are considered some of the greatest games of all time. Almost one decade ahead of Nintendo's Satellaview service, the FDS's writable and portable storage technology served as an enabling technology for the innovation of online leaderboards and contests via the in-store Disk Fax kiosks, which are now seen as the earliest forerunners of modern online gaming and distribution.

Within its library of 200 original games, some are FDS-exclusive and many were re-released one or two years later on cartridges for Famicom and NES, though without the FDS's additional sound channel.

title: Famicom Disk System