text:
Talk:Bad Religion

Untitled
It's nice to know peaople used the info I gave on THPS songs. The other songs used in video games were Them And Us, 10 in 2010, Inner Logic and Hear It which were used in Crazy Taxi also Punk rock song was exclusively added to Crazy Taxi3 along with the other songs from Crazy Taxi.

Anyway to be more specific You was in Proskater2 Big Bang was in the original Thug Social suicide was in Project 8 and we're only Gonna Die was in American Wasteland I know this because I own the games except for Crazy Taxi 3 which I looked up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.18.179.111 (talk) 15:55, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Source for Greg Graffins athestic view point
http://www.celebatheists.com/index.php?title=Greg_Graffin I don't know how to add sources.
 * Not the best source, actually. It says "Graffin was asked by MAB".  If we knew what MAB was and had a link to the actual interview itself, that would work. m13b 19:22, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Correct release date for 14th album
Hey, just popped in to change the date of BR's 14th album release to the correct one. An article on Epitaph's website on January 17th(http://www.epitaph.com/news/news/2795) has said it was as such, and I would trust them over a 3rd party news source. Also went and edited the separate article for the album. SuperHiro 10:34, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

American Jesus
I think it's worth putting a picture of the single American Jesus but I don't know where

new release date
Bentley's interview on the BR podcast this week (#7 I think) states that the double album will likely get pushed to at least Feb 2007, because they aren't close to starting recording. 24.13.86.24 07:29, 15 May 2006 (UTC) Brooks has said on myspace that it's more likely to be late 07

XXXX in Music
Oy. Instead of saying "See xxxx in music", why don't we just link xxxx in music to the year? With an article like this where there are lots of years mentioned, that "see" thing is a little ridiculous. -- Zoe

 * I agree, it's changed now. -- Delirium 04:45 12 Jun 2003 (UTC)

In keeping with some other music articles, I'm changing so the year itself links to xxxx in music. Something like "Against the Grain, released in 1990, blah blah." -- Delirium

 * Are you (Zoe) suggesting "XXX released XXX in 1995" with a piped link to the year in music, or to just link straight to the main year page? I would be against the piped link because readers will assume it is about the year in general, and I would be against the straight link to the main year page because... I dunno, it just seems more useful to link to the year in music.  If someone is clicking on it, I'd think the main reason is to find out what else happened in music in that year, not who won Japanese Prime Minister elections or something.  Anyway, I don't feel too strongly about it and will adhere to the consensus, but that's my feelings.  I agree it's unattractive, but I think clarity and ease of use are more important. Tokerboy 00:34 Jan 13, 2003 (UTC)

 * Well, the piping is pretty clear. No one will expect Bad Religion albums to be listed on the all-things-to-all-people year page, just the year-in-music page.  Different question:  Should the year in music pages link to the year pages?  Should the year pages link to the year in music pages?  If each year page had a link to the year in music page, then readers could see that, by golly, that Bad Religion album came out the same year Noriega was arrested before going on to the year in music, where they will find that Milli Vanilli was also arrested that year. Ortolan88
 * This only confirms my suspicion that Noriega was a member of both Milli Vanilli and Bad Religion. Tokerboy 03:52 Jan 13, 2003 (UTC)

Intro
Intro is completely wrong. Into the Unknown was not their debut album, and it did not sell well. On the contrary, it was enormously unpopular and directly led to the band breaking up, as it was psychadelic rock, which alienated the punk fans. Removing for now, I'll fix when I get some time. -- Delirium
 * Aah, I've been writing these based on allmusic.com, which is usually accurate but has a tendency to avoid saying much negative (I'm guessing because they make money off the "click here to buy" links). Tokerboy

In 1984 Greg Hetson of Circle Jerks fame replaced Gurewitz. This sentence doesn't make any sense. I think its trying to say that Hetson replaced Brett which isn't true, he was asked to record a song with the band, and just kind of stuck around. This is explained in the new BR dvd (which is really cool). The DC

Actually he did replace him when Brett went into rehab for his drug problem. He is credited on Back To The Known

The intro paragraph states "The last Bad Religion album..." Shouldn't it be "latest?" They didn't break up. McFlynnTHM 14:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

One tidbit from the intro paragraph that irked me slightly when I read it : "By 2002, Bad Religion had sold over 5 million albums worldwide,[4] and along with many of their contemporaries—such as The Offspring, Green Day, Rancid, NOFX and Social Distortion—they are one of the best-selling punk rock acts of all time." As much as I like these other bands, is this part (in bold characters) really necessary in an article about Bad Religion? It already says that they're ONE of the best-selling punk rock acts of all time, going on about who those other successful bands are seems unnecessary. Krimpov (talk) 19:31, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

 * I agree, it is unnecessary. I just fixed the sentence you pointed out. Bad Religion may have sold a lot of records, but calling them "one of the best-selling punk rock acts of all time" along with bands like The Offspring, Green Day or NOFX makes no sense, and the other thing is, is that Bad Religion is older than those bands. 198.91.126.58 (talk) 18:35, 5 August 2014 (UTC)

The lyrics for Bad Religions The Empire Strikes First
If you're looking for the lyrics/songs off the Empire Strikes First, visit The Bad Religion Lyrics Page at http://www.chokingonreality.com/badreligion OR (soontobe) http://www.thebadreligionlyricspage.com The Bad Religion Lyrics Page was just put back online January 30th 2006 and will be available here from now on. They're the most complete set of lyrics for the new albums you'll find anywhere! (that we know of) :D ENJOY!

>>>edited by amanda&burt of thebadreligionlyricspage ;) Jan 31 2006\
 * Shameless huckster much? -leigh 09:17, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)

 * my god this is the most blatant advertising i have ever seen and you would have to be reatrded not to relize that.not saying there bad links but i mean. user Eskater11

Copyvio
Removed text: ''In his doctoral dissertation, "Monism, Atheism, and the Naturalist World-View: Perspectives from Evolutionary Biology," he concludes that there's "no conflict between evolutionary theory and religion on the one important condition that religion is essentially atheistic." One of his beliefs (and he is a man of deep faith), which must have helped him to arrive at his findings, is that naturalism is set to become a new and influential religion. Naturalism "is satisfying," Graffin has said, "because it is a teacher. Naturalism teaches one of the most important things in the world: there is only this life—so live wonderfully and meaningfully." And one of the keys to a wonderful and meaningful existence is living free of delusions, which all "bad religions"—traditional churches, political dogmas, conformist social codes—trade in. He also denies the existence of free will.''

This paragraph is lifted practically word-for-word from Christianity Today. Linking to that article might well be appropriate, but cut-and-pasting it is not. --Calair 00:10, 21 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Discussion separation
OK, on this page we had the separate discussions above titled "XXXX in Music" and "Intro" as one discussion with no header. I separated the comments for these and added the titles. Just thought I should mention this because you can change it back if you want (and because I'm reorganising what's already been posted). Fantom 18:05, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

Bad Religion
Couple of things - Brett and Jay had a severe fight, apparently blood was spilled. This is an edited version of the interview I had with Brian Baker, worth a read, you can catch it on theBRML archives. --Irishpunktom\talk 22:25, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

Soundtrack to The Chase (1994 movie)
"Two Babies in the Dark" was track #4. -- Sy / (talk) 07:08, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

tim armstrong on the song 'television'
have a listen to the song!!! does that sound like graffin during the verse?? of course not!! all verses are performed by tim from rancid. i think that qualifies a little higher than "backing vocals" seeing as he does more vocals than anyone else on that song. ~ alexwank

Faith Alone and Operation Rescue
Since when were they released as singles? /Grillo 19:36, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Atomic Garden was Bad Religion's first single, I have thus removed all the "singles" above this one. For anything else, I'd love to see a source. /Grillo 17:56, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Hardcore
BR are definatly not a hardcore punk band. Many classify them as pop-punk, although punk rock is the most common genre. However there are not a Hardcore band. Listen to any BR music, and compair to hardcore such as Black Flag or Throwdown.

Pop Punk? Thats a first, I completly disagree with you Bad Religion is a 'hardcore' band.

Bad Religion may have been "Hardcore" back in the days of "No Control" but now they're sorta poppy. Which is totally fine cuz I love 'em.

Bad Religion more or less invented the entire hardcore punk genre. Black Flag isn't hardcore punk to an audiophile, they're post-hardcore, but as usual society dumbs things down to just 10 or 20 genres, instead of the dozens or so that are out there. Anyway, yeah, I'll second that you're the first I've heard use the pop-punk label for Bad Religion. - M ask  21:15, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Bad Religion a Post-Hardcore band?! I'm not a genre expert but I know that isn't right.

 * Hardcore is the most confusing genre in terms of defining whether a band is hardcore. According to some people hardcore was more or less invented when Bad Brains' drummer would play the drums faster than usual so they could finish songs earlier. Perhaps their first album was hardcore. Bad Religion are probably more specifically melodic punk rock, but punk rock, certainly not pop-punk. Just because they may be "lighter" than some punk bands because of their melodies, doesn't mean they are pop-punk. --Jabso 07:16, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
 * According to me, hardcore was invented when a bunch of people bought and heard the album GI by Germs. Personal opinion, for talk page distribution only so I won't argue my point much, but just go listen to GI and then tell me it's not hardcore, from 1980. :) Eaglizard 19:57, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Bad Religion is hard to classify, because some of Mr Brett's songs are borderline pop-punk, yet the material before 1986 is hardcore.
 * Pre 86 stuff is not really that Hardcore, and some of Mr Bretts stuff is a lot harder than, say, The New America or I love my computer. --Irishpunktom\talk 14:49, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Melodic Hardcore is probably a reasonable term for it. Anyhow, they were not melodic in the first couple of albums.  How could Hell Be Any Worse? is most definately hardcore.--Reverend Distopia 11:24, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Early bad religion is most certainly hardcore punk. There IS a difference between Hardcore...and hardcore punk. Hardcore punk at it's beginnings didn't have to be heavy and thick necessarily. Bad religion's early stuff sounds like hardcore punk and their latter stuff is certainly influenced by it. If you think otherwise, Listen to "Were Only Gonna Die" and tell me that isn't hardcore punk. If you look back you'll realize that just because they don't sound like what you think hardcore punk is now, doesn't mean it didn't happen. They've been a band for 27/28 years now. (Thefirstterm (talk) 06:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC))

No, completely wrong! As a genre of music, "hardcore" is always Hardcore Punk. Many think that hardcore is a type of metal, but for those who know things about punk, that's stupid. --Revilal90 (talk) 15:40, 19 fFebruary 2011 (UTC)

anyone who actually believes this band is hardcore has to be deaf. this band is mostly pop punk, as for the guy who said bad religion started hardcore, don't be clueless. how can a band that sounds pop punk start hardcore? go listen to germs, d.o.a and many more to see who started it. the sex pistols sound more hardcore punk than bad religion. 81.101.205.95 (talk) 12:12, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

 * That I'm deaf just because I view Bad Religion as a hardcore band is slanderous. Just because people think, believe or call Bad Religion hardcore punk doesn't mean it's not correct. Listen to their early material like their first EP, How Could Hell Be Any Worse, Suffer or No Control for example. Also, it doesn't matter who started hardcore punk or pop punk. Hell, when Bad Religion formed in 1979, there was no such thing as a genre called pop punk, and I view bands like Blink-182, Green Day, The Offspring, New Found Glory and similar bands more pop punk than Bad Religion. 2602:306:BDA9:8610:9499:FCCE:75A0:D561 (talk) 14:19, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

live at the palladium
the link in the current events section about the Live at the Palladium DVD goes to some British band's DVD, not Bad Religion's. Somebody should fix that, but not me. :)

 * I removed the link. m13b 20:15, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Added a new page for Live at the Palladium (Bad Religion) m13b 13:05, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

The Early Years

 * I deleted this from the section on the band's early years because it deals specifically with Greg Graffin and talks about his dissertation which he only published a couple of years ago.

 * Greg Graffin, the band's frontman, holds a Master's degree in geology from UCLA and a Ph.D. in biology from Cornell University. Graffin's dissertation for Cornell was a comprehensive study of how modern scientists view theism and religion, and how their own religious beliefs, if any, affect their study and work. He has since published it for fans of the band.

 * This might be ok if we start headings doing minor descriptions of the band members, but as of now, I don't see any headings where this would really be appropriate. Leaving it here for someone to put it in a better spot.Reverend Distopia11:24, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

New page for the discography
I have moved the discography to a new page, Bad Religion discography, since this article is now holding up too much information. I'll just leave the studio albums in this article for now. Hope you editors don't mind about this. Alex 101 18:03, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

NOFX - Stranger than Fishin'/Fiction
Apart from the title, the two songs don't really have all that much in common. Article makes it sound as if they do. m13b 13:10, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Tributes and Influences
I believe the Tributes and Influences section is rather unwieldy. It's length requires a new format for digestion. I suggest perhaps parsing it differently into multiple sections or having some sort of subsection scheme. Also, it does not really seem like prose, but rather a collection of short statements that would probably be better suited to a list. My 2cents (if I had the time to do it, I would). Ardent †alk ∈ 08:25, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I gave it a shot. Could probably be cleaned up a tad more, but I think it's on the right track.  -m13b 15:00, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, took it out of list form again and put it back as PPs, but with more connecting thoughts between them to make better paragraphs out of the subjects. Does it work? m13b 15:25, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Into the Unknown
I have a hard time keeping the current phrasing about Into the Unknown as being "disowned" by the band when it appears in their discography on their official website. Yes, they don't play anything off of it live in concert and generally have bad feelings towards it (as can be seen in the interviews at the end of the Live at the Palladium DVD, but it doesn't ring true anymore as written. Thoughts?  m13b 18:29, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Lyrics and ideology section
This facet of the band seemed relatively ignored, so I tried to add some emphasis to it. m13b 19:09, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

To do & Ideas
Been working on this article, and there are a few more things I have in mind to add/change.

 * Get a good reference to go with the Suffer saving the scene bit.
 * Add a small intro paragraph to the Collaborations and guest musicians section. I know there's an article out there in which either Greg or Jay talks about putting people who drop by their studio "to work".  I just wish I could find it again...  Found it!
 * Does anyone really care what Sum 41's lead singer's favorite Bad Religion album is? Really? Chopped out as trivia.
 * I really want to chop the entire Musical similarities section, but so far, I've been able to restrain myself. Just don't see it as all that important for an encyclopedia entry.
 * Should Soundtracks become one section, making video game and movie each subsections? done
 * Probably a lot more that slips my mind right now.

Any more thoughts? m13b 19:04, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

 * There's a good item here on Atlantic's website about the influence Todd Rundgren which sounds quite pivotal, actually. Bubba hotep 19:36, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Looks to me like a good way to really beef up the anemic Post-Gurewitz section. I like The New America and all, but never would have thought that much could be written about it.  ;) m13b 20:31, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't think most of them liked working with Todd very much. unfortunately my olny proof is anecdotal. I had made a mock "think different" ad using a picture of Graffin along with Todd in t he studio for New America, and on the New AMerica tour was passing it around band members to get it signed, several of them, added derogatory comments about Todd on it. Unfortunately i gave it to a friend so I couldnt scan it in to share. but there must be some otehr evidence of there feelings towards him. Ucscottb4u 19:59, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

 * There was an interview I saw with Greg that talked about the chemistry. He said something to the effect that Todd had a reputation of being difficult, but so did Greg. I'll see if I can rediscover that. (I need a secretary or something.) m13b 20:31, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

 * im getting my friend to scan the photo in so i can share it. will post when availableUcscottb4u 20:36, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Might this link work for the Suffer quote? I'd rather have a direct link to either a Flipside or Maximum Rock 'n Roll article declaring this, but haven't been able to find that. m13b 17:54, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

 * i dont think you are likely to find a direct link, and if they had made that up im sure they would have gotten called on it sooner, go with itUcscottb4u 18:29, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

The more I look at this, the more it gums up my head. Gonna take a break from it for a while. m13b 15:23, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Chopping block - Thoughts on a big restructuring
The following sections all just look like pure trivia to me. Check out today's featured article for Nirvana. None of these sections even exist in that article.

 * 3.3 Covers
 * 3.4 Musical similarities
 * 3.5 Soundtracks

Then, the pieces of section "3.1 Influence" could be incorporated into the "2.1 Early career" section. Bits of "3.2 Collaborations and guest musicians" could also be placed individually into the history according to when each thing happened.

Various extraneous entries (tonguesofdestruction.com?) in External Links could go too, IMHO. Any thoughts? This is a major restructure, so it should get some review before being attempted. m13b 20:40, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

 * On the Links, that could be cut down to the official site, one fan site (probably The Bad Religion Page), maybe the lyrics site, and then reviews or articles about them, but it definetly doesnt need like 5 different fan sites.Ucscottb4u 20:50, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, I think the New Album section and Current events can be combined. Ucscottb4u 20:54, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I totally agree, and took the liberty of doing it, as well as chopping external links. Trivia about the Dropkick Murphys and all that other news removed.  m13b 16:43, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I was wondering about the Lineup Section on the side. Might it be a better idea to list former members under current members in the top box and jsut make sure each album has the right line up on those pages? Ucscottb4u 18:00, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm. As is, it's a good way to illustrate the many lineup changes (which should be stressed more in the intro).  Then again, all of the collab/guest musician stuff should probably be moved to individual album pages too. Tough one. m13b 18:05, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

MAJOR reordering - All Trivia Sections Cut
Might lose some support on this move, but I think it helps a lot. As indicated previously, I wanted to chop out a bunch of sections. These bits either should be placed on individual album pages (which I will do shortly) or cut completely due to lack of relevance/references. Other than that, the influences were moved to Early Career.

If you want to see the page before I chopped it just click here.

Thanks, m13b 18:45, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Alternate Intro
Now when I re-run the peerreviewer script, it tells me the intro is too long. (I can't win!) Here's an alternative intro if the current one is indeed deemed too long.

Bad Religion is a hardcore punk/punk rock band formed in Southern California in 1980 by Jay Bentley, Greg Graffin, Brett Gurewitz and Jay Ziskrout. This band is often credited for leading the revival of punk rock during the late 1980s, as well as influencing a large number of other punk and rock musicians throughout their career.

They are known for their socially conscious lyrics and the ability to express their ideology with the use of metaphor, an advanced vocabulary and vocal harmonies known as the "oozin aahs". Bad Religion songs deal with matters of personal as well as political responsibility, and despite the band's moniker, deal more with freedom than atheism.

The band has gone through a large number of personnel changes throughout its history, singer/songwriter Greg Graffin being the sole consistent member. The lineup departure with the largest impact occurred when Brett Gurewitz, Bad Religion's other main songwriter, left in 1994. Gurewitz rejoined the band eight years later, and Bad Religion continues to record new material and tour for its fans around the world.

Thanks, m13b 17:40, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

80-85
When I was going to add a reference about 80-85, I wasn't so sure which section to put it, so I put it on the 1986-1992 section, since the compilation was released in 1991. Let me know whether you want me to move it to the 1980-1985 section or not. Alex 02:20, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that's fine where it is. I reworded the paragraph a little.  m13b 17:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Album Covers
Is there a way that we can link the album covers and booklets in the CD case, or is that copyright vio. Let me know on my user talk page. I don't mind scanning them and putting them in. Phreakuency 13:39, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I can't see any way it wouldn't violate copyright. Additionally, I don't really think it's altogether necessary at all. m13b 18:49, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * As much as the booklets would be unneeded and crowdy, the covers are definitely a good addition to the article, and are covered by faire use if they are of low resolution.SidiLemine 13:22, 5 July 2007 (UTC)---

What to do about "fan" statements
"Their next album The Empire Strikes First was released in June 2004. Both albums are widely regarded by fans and critics as a return to form for the band, as opposed to their time on Atlantic."

Lines like this, I feel, should be removed. They're not citable, and state opinion, not fact. Anyone disagree? m13b 14:25, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Yeah, I've gone ahead and removed it. It's not cited to anyone, and also not true---some fans regard these albums as a "return to form", while others think they represent a continuation of the post-Grey-Race downhill slide. --Delirium 20:17, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Hey 71.98.93.97 editing "Early career and hiatus (1980-1985)"
Don't add obvious punk influences to a sentence that starts "Outside of the punk scene". Also, if you're going to add stuff, be sure you reference it. m13b 14:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

musician dictionary?
Used to be listed in External Links. Why is it gone?

I think it should be there considering BR is their featured band, and their dictionary is so long.

In the fee weeks I've been on there, "The Answer" has been edited much faster than ever before. Its awesome. http://www.musiciandictionary.com/wiki/Bad_Religion

Caredemption 18:49, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Have a look at WP:EL. Item #12 would apply, for starters, I should think: "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors." Probably #1, #2 and #3 as well. Regards, CiaranG 18:59, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Failed "good article" nomination
This article failed good article nomination. This is how the article, as of February 23, 2007, compares against the six good article criteria:

 * 1. Well written?: Fail. The prose doesn't flow very well and it oisn't structured very well. Several paraghraphs come off as being a bunch of random points just thrown together in sentence form, ie. "The band has gone through a large number of personnel changes throughout its history, singer/songwriter Greg Graffin being the sole consistent member. The lineup departure with the largest impact occurred when Brett Gurewitz, Bad Religion's other main songwriter, left in 1994; he rejoined the band in 2001."
 * 2. Factually accurate?: Weak Fail. Makes several unsourced statements, but the history of the group seems well-sourced.
 * 3. Broad in coverage?: Pass. Seems to have good coverage of the subject
 * 4. Neutral point of view?: Fail Several unsourced statements that are taken as POV, eg. "This band is often credited for leading the revival of punk rock during the late 1980s, as well as influencing a large number of other punk and rock musicians throughout their career." That statement needs sources
 * 5. Article stability? As far as I can tell, yes. Pass.
 * 6. Images?: Fail. None of them have fair-use rationale

When these issues are addressed, the article can be resubmitted for consideration. Thanks for your work so far.

Sorry, but I have to fail this article because I do not think it is well-written enough for it to be a Good Article. Please take a couple of days to reread the prose a few times, and make some appropriate changes before renominating it. -- Scorpion 16:13, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree. What happened to this article?  It states opinion as fact and contains far too many choppy sentences...  m13b 20:33, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

 * The same thing that happens to lots of contemporary musician articles: too much editing by fans, too few available reliable secondary sources (especially well-researched ones written by legitimate musicologists or historians), and too few people other than fans interested in editing the article. --Delirium (talk) 02:40, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

"Activeboard" link
Quit putting it back. It doesn't belong here. m13b 12:44, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Stevens Untitled Rock Show "Remaster"
On that one episode of Stevens Untitled Rock Show, Bad Religion was featurd at the Warped Tour induction of the rock and roll hall of fame at the clash exibit. On that episode they said they were going to remaster and re-release Into the Unknown. Theres Nothing on the bad religion arcticle or Into the Unknown's article about this. Should there be?? And does anyone have more info on this??Jimmypop1994 23:20, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

No they didn't. Jay said something to the effect that they would only re-master it, if someone in the band was strapped for cash or something. However, as he often does when asked questions like, "Do you see yourself doing this is X amount of years?" say that he doesn't really know. That is not a go-ahead to edit the article saying that they are going to re-release the album though.Blackbird 1565 (talk) 05:15, 10 December 2007 (UTC)Blackbird_1565

Fair use rationale for Image:BadReligionHowCouldHellBeAnyWorse.jpg
Image:BadReligionHowCouldHellBeAnyWorse.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 00:26, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

John Smith edit by 70.92.81.54
Can anyone confirm or deny the most recent edit that changed the name of the promoter to John Smith? Google can't provide any information that I can find, but I'm suspecting vandalism, but a source would be really really helpful. Lithron (talk) 01:35, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

 * That whole paragraph was vandalism, actually (the old name was someone's high school teacher). Pfalstad (talk) 19:30, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Nominated for Good Article
Only registered users can nominate articles for WP:GA, so i've removed the article from the list since it was nominated by an IP on the 24th. By the way, those fact tags need to go if someones is serioud about making this a GA. Check out WP:GA? for the good article criteria.--Yamanbaiia(free hugs!) 15:33, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

bassist belief
i read on some site someone had posted the bassist believes in god, its relevant to the article in the religion part we could note that he is theist

- THRICE 34
 * Then you must provide a source. Also, please use " ~ " to sign your name (or use the signature button above this window - tenth button from the left, next to the red circle). This way your signature is timed and dated, so we know when you posted it, and thus people won't respond to year-old threads. Cheers Nouse4aname (talk) 09:55, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Tony Hawk's Pro Skater II
Yo dudes!

I missed a little bit about the song 'You' being used in the videogame 'Tony Hawk's Pro Skater II' I didn't know where to put it in as I don't want to mess it up.

I really do not think the video game section is necassary —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.84.160.185 (talk) 00:14, 3 July 2008 (UTC) Kind regards! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ebut (talk • contribs) 04:25, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I don't think it is necessary either, but I left it and simply moved it down to the bottom of the page. It certainly shouldn't be before their history. Tedder (talk) 01:36, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Updated external links
I removed most of the external links. Too many of them were fansites, spam, etc. I chose to leave thebrpage.com, since it is (apparently) the definitive fan page for Bad Religion. If anyone disagrees with my decisins, please speak up- but make sure you understand WP:EL. Tedder (talk) 01:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

21st Century Digital Boy
The intro states that "...rose to fame with their 1994 major-label release Stranger Than Fiction, which produced their well-known hit singles "21st Century (Digital Boy)...". It is true that the _single_ for 21st century was released with STF, but the song was actually released on Generator, just not as a single.  It may be worth noting that the STF version is a re-release. Fourpole (talk) 00:30, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

It was originally released on Against the Grain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.197.88.206 (talk) 10:44, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Religious views
I think the "Religion" section is a bit too detailed. The lengthy quotations of Graffin should by moved to the article about Greg Graffin. Nazgul02 (talk) 11:26, 4 December 2009 (UTC)

Band Members
I removed 80-85 from the band members timeline (at 12 Nov 1991). It's a compilation with no new material recorded for it so it adds nothing to the member history. Casinote (talk) 12:56, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

The Dissent of Man
I think it's time to consolidate the info in the page-long section on their latest album, and come up with a section more similar to those for previous albums. It's out now. We don't really need day-by-day updates on member's twitter messages about the upcoming album, etc. 98.200.232.212 (talk) 16:48, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Discography incomplete
I stumbled across a BR cd that does not appear in this article. Although it appears to be an official BR release, it is very obscure, and the fact that it is entitled "Limited Edition CD" is kind of confusing. Anyway, here is some evidence to back up my claim: http://www.amazon.com/Limited-CD-Bad-Religion/dp/B000COHIFE   http://goodbadunknown.blogspot.com/2007/07/unknown-bad-religion-limited-edition-cd.html

I'm listening to it right now, and it sounds legitimate. --Special:Contributions/ (talk) 20:57, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

I didn't realize I wasn't logged in. I'll claim the above post. --SCooley138 (talk) 21:00, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Quitting of Jay Ziskrout
The article claims that Jay Ziskrout left during the recording of "How could hell be any worse?". I think this is wrong. In his book "Anarchist Evolution", Greg Graffin states: "Whatever was fresh and original about Bad Religion was gone by 1983 and the release of Into the Unknown. The album also essentially broke up the band, since Jay walked out of a rehearsal for the album and didn't come back to the band until 1986." (See page 88)

--178.167.254.93 (talk) 08:33, 17 August 2014 (UTC)daMax

Actually, even the cited article states that Jay quit the band during the recording of Into the Unknown. So? Will somebody edit the article or will I have to do that by myself? --95.45.72.200 (talk) 17:26, 23 August 2014 (UTC) daMax

NOFX, Rancid and The Offspring as "associated acts"?
How exactly are Bad Religion associated with NOFX, Rancid and The Offspring? I thought the term "associated acts" is supposed to be only bands that featured at least one member from another band and no members of Bad Religion have ever been members of NOFX, Rancid or The Offspring just because those bands were all signed to Brett's label Epitaph. 172.56.16.17 (talk) 20:16, 30 June 2015 (UTC)

Reverted massive deletion
An anonymous user deleted much of the article, mostly without giving adequate edit summary (his summaries included "bleh", "rm more shit", "nothing here sounded important" etc.) While I don't oppose removing poorly sourced and/or unimportant material from the article, I feel that such massive pruning should not be done before reaching consensus among the editors. Therefore, I reverted the changes. Let's discuss if anything is to be deleted. Nazgul02 (talk) 14:30, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Temporary band members?
Anyone given thought to include people like Steve Port (Polar Bear Club drummer) that filled in on tour while Brooks was away for his mother's funeral? I can dig up relevant details on that instance. Here's an article that mentions it.Are there any other documented instances of temporary members?

Asking as its looking like Brook's replacement may be announced soon. Either way, contact me if it's worth me adding the info. Syracusepunk (talk) 13:26, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

 * I don't speak Spanish, but according to Brian Baker, Jamie Miller is their new drummer: . 2602:306:BDA9:8610:55B2:6783:E29B:C1AE (talk) 23:05, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

1979 or 1980
The formed date has repeatedly been changed from 1980 to 1979. I've changed it back to 1980 like three times, but kept getting reverted. The band members have claimed in interviews that Bad Religion didn't exist until 1980. They also did a 30th anniversary tour in 2010. Just because Jay Bentley said the band formed in 1979 doesn't mean it's accurate. In that same source in this article, he said "no one can remember exactly", which indicates that the band hadn't existed until at least 1980. Here are some sources where the band said they've been around since 1980:

http://www.thebrpage.net/media/item.asp?itemID=43

http://www.thebrpage.net/media/item.asp?itemID=551

http://www.thebrpage.net/media/item.asp?itemID=60

http://www.thebrpage.net/media/item.asp?itemID=112

Bad Religion's official website also says they formed in 1980: http://www.badreligion.com/legacy/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:BDA9:8610:7D6D:9155:4F94:B1F8 (talk) 17:03, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Looks to me like the cited reference clearly indicates it as 1979, and the article text goes into more detail about that. They're welcome to place it whenever they like, of course, but unless there's references saying that they didn't in fact start playing together in 1979, I think that's the best supported date. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:12, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I reverted because you removed sourced information and replaced it with unsourced. If you feel the correct year is 1980, go ahead and change it, but also add a (better) source. Nazgul02 (talk) 17:42, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Bad Religion


text:
Joan Osborne

Joan Elizabeth Osborne (born July 8, 1962) is an American singer, songwriter, and interpreter of music, having recorded and performed in various popular American musical genres including rock, pop, soul, R&B, blues, and country. She is best known for her recording of the Eric Bazilian-penned song "One of Us" from her debut album, Relish (1995). Both the single and the album became worldwide hits and garnered a combined seven Grammy Award nominations. Osborne has toured with Motown sidemen the Funk Brothers and was featured in the documentary film about them, Standing in the Shadows of Motown (2002).

Career
Originally from Anchorage, Kentucky, a suburb of Louisville, Osborne moved to New York City in the late 1980s to study filmmaking at New York University, where she had classes with legendary documentarian George Stoney, among others. Osborne was paying her own way through college and taking time off to earn money for another semester when, by chance, she sang at an open mic night at the Abilene Café. The other musicians encouraged her to return, and she began singing weekly at the Abilene's open mic and at other blues open mics in NYC's East Village. She soon became immersed in NYC's live music scene, forming her own band and playing in nightclubs alongside groups like the Sweetones, Surreal McCoys, Spin Doctors, Blues Traveler, and the Holmes Brothers, and artists like Chris Whitley, Frankie Paris, and Jeff Buckley.

In 1991, she formed her own record label, Womanly Hips, to release her first full-length album, Soul Show: Live at Delta 88, and she began to tour around the Northeast, building a devoted regional following. She signed a recording contract with Rick Chertoff of Mercury Records, and released her second (and first major label) album Relish (1995), which became a hit on the strength of the single "One of Us". "Right Hand Man" and "St. Teresa" were minor hits, and "Spider Web" also received radio play. Osborne wrote and directed the second music video for "St. Teresa".

Osborne was a co-headliner for the Lilith Fair in 1997.

In 2001, Osborne produced an album for her friends the Holmes Brothers, Speaking in Tongues, engineered by Grammy winner Trina Shoemaker and featuring backing vocals from Catherine Russell, Maydie Miles, and Osborne. The album was released by Alligator Records.

In 2001, Osborne appeared on Austin City Limits, singing material mainly from Righteous Love. In a brief interview segment at the end of the episode, Osborne reflects on her gladness to have gotten out of the limelight of her mid-1990s stardom. She was featured in the 2002 documentary film Standing in the Shadows of Motown and toured with Motown sidemen the Funk Brothers. She and her band accompanied the Dixie Chicks for a national tour in the summer of 2003, during which time she also joined veteran San Francisco jam-rockers The Dead as a vocalist, and released her fourth album, titled How Sweet It Is, a collection of classic rock and soul covers.

During 2005 and 2006, Osborne performed on numerous occasions with Phil Lesh and Friends. Her vocals were featured prominently on the album Live at the Warfield. She continues to make appearances with the band.

In February 2007, she appeared on the Grand Ole Opry. In May 2007, she issued Breakfast in Bed, produced by Tor Hyams, a return to the soul music that she had covered on How Sweet It Is. Breakfast in Bed also featured the two songs ("Heatwave" and "What Becomes of the Brokenhearted") that she had covered for the film Standing in the Shadows of Motown. The same year, Osborne appeared as a featured guest in the third season of the Transatlantic Sessions television series, performing "Saint Teresa", "Holy Water", and "Please Don't Tell Me How the Story Ends".

Osborne sang lead vocals on the cover of the Willie Dixon-penned "Spoonful" on Vivian Campbell's solo album Two Sides of If. She also provided some vocals for "Wayfaring Stranger" on Spearhead's 1997 album Chocolate Supa Highway. She covered Dolly Parton's "Do I Ever Cross Your Mind" on the 2003 tribute album Just Because I'm a Woman: Songs of Dolly Parton. She is featured on the Holmes Brothers 2007 collection State of Grace performing "Those Memories of You", an old Alan O'Bryant bluegrass tune.

Osborne released the studio album Little Wild One in September 2008. She performed as a guest vocalist on Sgt. Pepper Live, the 2009 album and DVD by Cheap Trick. In 2010, she was awarded the Woman of Achievement Award from Women's Project Theater. She performed with The Waybacks at Merlefest, 2011, during the Hillside Album hour, featuring The Allman Brothers' Eat a Peach.

In 2010, Osborne again produced an album for the Holmes Brothers on Alligator Records, Feed My Soul, which featured contributions from keyboard player Glenn Patscha.

Her album Bring It On Home was released on March 27, 2012. It is a collection of vintage blues and soul covers, and it received a 2013 Grammy Awards nomination for Best Blues Album. In September 2012, Osborne was featured in a campaign called "30 Songs / 30 Days" to support Half the Sky: Turning Oppression into Opportunity for Women Worldwide, a multi-platform media project inspired by Nicholas Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn's book.

Osborne was a member of Trigger Hippy, along with Steve Gorman, Tom Bukovac, Jackie Greene, and Nick Govrik. The band released their debut album on September 30, 2014. She announced her departure from the group on her blog in October 2018.

On October 31, 2015, Osborne and Mavis Staples performed in Washington, D.C. at The George Washington University's Lisner Auditorium as part of their Solid Soul Tour.

Osborne has a long history of political activism, in particular with Planned Parenthood Federation of America. She began volunteering as a PPFA clinic escort in NYC in the 1980s, has organized benefit concerts for the group, and was honored as a PPFA "Woman of the Year" in 1997 after she promoted Planned Parenthood from the Lilith Fair stage in Houston, TX, despite being expressly forbidden to do so by the arena's owners, who then blacklisted her from the venue.

Osborne released the original album Love and Hate in 2014 and followed up in 2017 with Songs of Bob Dylan, another cover album. In 2020, she published Trouble and Strife, and in 2022, she issued the live compilation Radio Waves.

Personal life
Raised a Roman Catholic, Osborne distanced herself from that institution after childhood, particularly influenced by telling her parents that she wished to become a priest only to learn that women cannot become Catholic priests. As an adult, she regards herself as skeptical of large-scale organized religion and identifies as a "spiritual person" directly influenced by both Buddhism and Christianity. Originally from Anchorage, Kentucky, a suburb of Louisville, Osborne moved to New York City in the late 1980s, Osborne has stated that she feels a particular attachment to the city, particularly the borough of Brooklyn. Her interest in her neighborhood of Boerum Hill’s culture, history, and society has multiple influences on her music. As well, she has expressed admiration for American poetry, especially the works of Walt Whitman, and cited that as a major inspiration for her songwriting.

Joan Osborne has a daughter, born in December 2004.

Grammy Awards
{| class="wikitable" ! colspan="6" align="center"| Grammy Awards ! Year ! style="width:200px;" | Work ! style="width:300px;" | Award ! width="65" | Result ! width="20" | Ref
 * rowspan="5" | 1996
 * Herself
 * Best New Artist
 * Nominated
 * rowspan=5 align="center"|
 * Relish
 * Album of the Year
 * Nominated
 * rowspan="2" | "One of Us"
 * Record of the Year
 * Nominated
 * Best Female Pop Vocal Performance
 * Nominated
 * "St. Teresa"
 * rowspan="2" | Best Female Rock Vocal Performance
 * Nominated
 * 1997
 * "Spider Web"
 * Nominated
 * align="center"|
 * 2013
 * Bring It On Home
 * Best Blues Album
 * Nominated
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"|
 * 2013
 * Bring It On Home
 * Best Blues Album
 * Nominated
 * align="center"|
 * align="center"|

 * "One of Us" was also nominated for the Grammy Award for Song of the Year. The nomination is credited to the songwriter, Eric Bazilian.

Other awards and nominations
{| class=wikitable !scope="col"| Year !scope="col"| Awards !scope="col"| Work !scope="col"| Category !scope="col"| Result !scope="col"|Ref.
 * rowspan="2" | 1996
 * MTV Europe Music Awards
 * rowspan="2" | Herself
 * Best Female
 * Nominated
 * align="center"|
 * Žebřík Music Awards
 * Best International Female
 * Nominated
 * align="center"|
 * rowspan="2" | 1997
 * rowspan="2" | Brit Awards
 * rowspan="2" | Herself
 * International Female Solo Artist
 * Nominated
 * rowspan="2" align="center"|
 * International Breakthrough Act
 * Nominated
 * 2010
 * Women's Project Theater
 * Herself
 * Woman of Achievement Award
 * Won
 * align="center"|
 * Women's Project Theater
 * Herself
 * Woman of Achievement Award
 * Won
 * align="center"|

Discography

 * Relish (1995)
 * Early Recordings (1996)
 * Righteous Love (2000)
 * How Sweet It Is (2002)
 * Christmas Means Love (2005)
 * Pretty Little Stranger (2006)
 * Breakfast in Bed (2007)
 * Little Wild One (2008)
 * Bring It On Home (2012)
 * Love and Hate (2014)
 * Songs of Bob Dylan (2017)
 * Trouble and Strife (2020)
 * Nobody Owns You (2023)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Joan Osborne


text:
College Green, Dublin

College Green is a three-sided plaza in the centre of Dublin, Ireland. On its northern side is the Bank of Ireland building, which until 1800 was Ireland's Parliament House. To its east stands Trinity College Dublin. To its south stands a series of 19th-century buildings.

Streets leading onto College Green are Dame Street to the west, Grafton Street to the south, Westmoreland Street to the north and College Street to the northeast. College Green has been used as an assembly point for major political rallies. In the mid-1990s, United States President Bill Clinton addressed a crowd during his visit to Ireland. President Barack Obama also spoke at the site in a major address during his visit in May 2011.

Location
College Green is on Dublin's Southside, and is about 170m long. Its western end is a continuation of Dame Street. At its eastern end, facing Trinity College, it meets Westmoreland Street heading north, College Street heading northeast, and Grafton Street heading south. The Temple Bar district is to the north.

History and layout
The area was once known as Hoggen Green and named after the nunnery of Blessed Virgin Mary del Hogges constructed at this location in 1156 by Diarmaid mac Murchadha. The name "Hoggen" derives from the Old Norse word haugr meaning mound, or barrow. The cemetery at College Green consisted of several burial mounds, which are thought to have contained the remains of some of the Norse kings of Dublin.

Between Church Lane and Suffolk Street, the Hiberno-Norse held their Thing, an assembly and meeting place, which was still to be seen in the 17th century. All along College Green, called Hoggen Green by the English, lay their barrows. Hoggen gave its name to the convent of St Mary de Hogges, which stood roughly where the Bank of Ireland is now and was a major landowner in the area until the Reformation. Originally laid out as a triangular green, it is now a rough trapezoid. The site has been historically used in celebration, with newly appointed Viceroys of Ireland being welcomed on the street.

Trinity College was founded on the street's east side in 1592. The west front's facade was designed by Theodore Jacobsen and added in 1751. Several public monuments stand in College Green, including a 19th-century statue facing the college of old Irish Parliament member Henry Grattan, designed by John Henry Foley.

By the time Charles Brooking published his map of Dublin in 1728, College Green had developed from a rural thoroughfare and properties had been built on both sides of the street.

A statue of King William III of England on horseback was constructed in the centre of College Green in 1701 by Grinling Gibbons. The statue was historically the site of celebrations marking the King's birthday on 4 November, with a procession through the city and a parade around the statue. These celebrations during the age of the Whig single party state were recorded by Mary Delany, who wrote that the King was "idolized here almost to superstition." After the formation of the ultra-Whig Orange Order in 1795 and the Rebellion of 1798, the statue became a target for the fervour of both sides. The statue was routinely decorated with orange ribbons and lilies, with the railings painted orange, but it was also frequently defaced, painted with pitch and there was one attempt to remove the head. The engraving "Visit of the Prince and Princess of Wales to Ireland: The Royal Procession passing College-Green, Dublin" published in the 25 April 1868 issue of The Illustrated London News depicted a group of children who had climbed up to the pedestal of the statue of William III to get a better view.

The statue also featured in James Joyce's story "The Dead". The statue continued to be attacked and defaced numerous times through the 19th and 20th centuries, leading to many repairs. The annual parades and processions ceased in 1823. It was eventually taken down after 277 years when it was badly damaged in an explosion on 11 November 1928, Armistice Day, with the head having been stolen in 1929. The area was the temporary site of an air raid shelter during World War II.

In 1966, a statue of the poet and nationalist Thomas Davis was constructed in the centre of College Green, to mark the fiftieth anniversary of the Easter Rising. The design includes a fountain designed by Edward Delaney, featuring four figures with trumpets which represent the four provinces of Ireland.

Architecture

Chichester House was constructed by Arthur Chichester, 1st Baron Chichester in the early 17th century. It was subsequently adapted for the Irish Parliament around 1670, and replaced by a new Parliament House in 1729, designed by Edward Lovett Pearce. It was later enlarged by James Gandon in 1787 and Edward Parke between 1804 and 1808. The site is now the Bank of Ireland.

Daly's Club, a gambling house and club founded by Patrick Daly in 1750, moved to the space on College Green between Foster Place and Anglesea Street at numbers 2–5 in 1769. It closed in 1823. The buildings were renovated in 1870, with two additional stories added. The centre portion is now taken up by shops.

Number 6-8 was formerly the site of the Jury's Hotel. It opened in 1839 as a commercial lodging house, and was rebuilt in 1859 and 1882. The premises was sold when Jury's relocated to Ballsbridge. The contents were auctioned, with the ornate mahogany bar sold to a buyer in Zurich. The site was bought by Patrick Gallagher in July 1979, who demolished the hotel in 1980 and built a granite-clad office block designed by Burke-Kennedy Doyle and Partners in its place, which was used by Telecom Éireann. The remodelled building now forms part of the Central Plaza development by Hines.

The Ulster Bank headquarters on College Green was built in the late 1970s. Despite objections from groups like the Dublin Civic Group, a collection of mostly Victorian buildings which faced onto College Green, Suffolk Street and Church Lane were demolished in 1976 to make way for the new development. The high-domed Victorian façade on College Green was kept, but the interior was entirely remodelled.

Guinness Mahon moved from South Frederick Street to numbers 16–17 in 1854. The current building was constructed in 1931 by G&T Crampton for the Bank. The Bank subsequently moved to St Stephen's Green.

Politics
College Green is commemorated in Francis Wheatley's painting Dublin Volunteers on College Green, which shows the Irish Volunteers demonstrating for independence on 4 November 1779.

Bill Clinton, the President of the United States visited Dublin in December 1995 and gave speech in College Green to 80,000 people. In May 2011, President Barack Obama gave a speech at College Green in front of 100,000. During the speech, he praised Ireland for its economic opportunities, and said he was proud of his Moneygall heritage.

Traffic restriction
Since July 2009, College Green, during peak times on working days, has been accessible only to pedestrians, buses, taxis and cyclists.

In 2016, plans were published for College Green to be fully pedestrianised, apart from a public-transport lane along the Trinity College side, to create a large public space in front of the Bank of Ireland. Dublin City Council announced that a joint team of Dixon Jones and Paul Keogh Architects would be responsible for redesigning the space. The plans drew several protests from store owners, taxi drivers and bus operators. In October 2018 An Bord Pleanála, the state planning agency rejected the plan. The Green Party-led Dublin City Council banned traffic for three Sundays in summer 2019 in order to test the feasibility of further traffic restrictions.

title: College Green, Dublin


text:
Talk:Printer point

Untitled
I don't know what is it. The definition is valid for DIN degrees.

I don't know what it is either. Let's scrap it unless we find someone who can cite a source. The only points I know of are color correction (CC) points, which are hundredths of a decade. E.g. a CC +5M filter is magenta, by attenuating green light, dividing its intensity by 10 to the power 5/100.

The DIN/ISO speed steps are not points, but degrees, I think. Dicklyon 05:33, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Printer point


text:
Laws in Wales Acts 1535 and 1542

The Laws in Wales Acts 1535 and 1542 (Y Deddfau Cyfreithiau yng Nghymru 1535 a 1542) or the Acts of Union (Y Deddfau Uno), were Acts of the Parliament of England under King Henry VIII of England, causing Wales to be incorporated into the realm of the Kingdom of England.

The legal system of England and the norms of English administration including the use of the English language only were applied to a mainly Welsh-speaking Wales. This created a single state and legal jurisdiction.

Before these Acts, Wales had already been legally annexed by England in 1284 and was excluded from parliamentary representation. Wales was divided between the Principality of Wales and many feudal statelets called the marcher Lordships which were effectively unified under the laws. The English county system was also extended across all of Wales.

Background
After Henry VIII made himself the head of the Church of England in 1534, Wales was seen as a potential problem which included some ambitious men unhappy with ethnic disadvantage in Wales and frustrated with legal complexities. Wales had also been the landing ground for Henry VII and was close to Catholic Ireland.

Chief administrator to the English crown Thomas Cromwell, brought forward Acts to unify Wales with England. The first of the Acts came in 1536 and was later strengthened by the Act of 1542/43. The Acts aimed to integrate the legal, political and administrative systems of Wales with England and make English the language of the courts in Wales, which was a mainly Welsh speaking country at the time. The preamble of the Acts suggests that legal differences in Wales led to discontent, which the English establishment wished to end.

The Acts were the result of a long process of assimilation. Wales had been annexed by England, following the conquest by Edward I, under the Statute of Rhuddlan of 1284.

Acts
The two acts have the long titles An Act for Laws and Justice to be ministered in Wales in like Form as it is in this Realm and An Act for Certain Ordinances in the King's Majesty's Dominion and Principality of Wales. Together they are known as the Acts of Union. The aim of the acts were to incorporate Wales into what Henry VIII of England saw as part of his Tudor Empire, with himself as sovereign ruler.

The acts were not popularly referred to as the "Acts of Union" until 1901, when historian Owen M. Edwards assigned them that name. This name is misleading and the legal short title of each Act has since 1948 been "The Laws in Wales Act". They are also often seen cited by the years they received royal assent, 1536 and 1543 respectively, although the official citation uses the preceding years, as each of these Acts was passed between 1 January and 25 March, at a time when New Year's Day fell on 25 March.

The Laws in Wales Act 1535 was passed in 1536 in the 8th session of Henry VIII's 5th parliament, which began on 4 February 1535/36, and repealed with effect from 21 December 1993. Meanwhile the act of 1542 was passed in 1543 in the second session of Henry VIII's 8th parliament, which began on 22 January 1542/43.

Provisions
The act declared King Henry's intentions, that because of differences in law and language:

"(4) some rude and ignorant People have made Distinction and Diversity between the King's Subjects of this Realm, and his Subjects of the said Dominion and Principality of Wales, whereby great Discord, Variance, Debate, Division, Murmur and Sedition hath grown between his said Subjects;

(5) His Highness therefore of a singular Zeal, Love and Favour that he beareth towards his Subjects of his said Dominion of Wales, minding and intending to reduce them to the perfect Order, Notice and Knowledge of his Laws of this Realm, and utterly to extirp all and singular the sinister Usages and Customs differing from the same, and to bring the said Subjects of this his Realm, and of his said Dominion of Wales, to an amicable Concord and Unity..."

– and therefore:

"That his said Country or Dominion of Wales shall be, stand and continue for ever from henceforth incorporated, united and annexed to and with this his Realm of England;"

The Laws in Wales Act 1535 imposed English law and the English language upon the Welsh people and allowed Welsh representation in the English parliament. These Acts also had many effects on the administration of Wales. The marcher lordships were abolished as political units, and five new counties were established on Welsh lands (Monmouthshire, Brecknockshire, Radnorshire, Montgomeryshire and Denbighshire), thus creating a Wales of 13 counties; Other areas of the lordships were annexed to Shropshire, Herefordshire, Gloucestershire, Glamorgan, Carmarthenshire, Pembrokeshire, Cardiganshire and Merionethshire; The borders of Wales for administrative/government purposes were established and have remained the same since; this was unintentional as Wales was to be incorporated fully into England, but the status of Monmouthshire was still ambiguous in the view of some people until confirmed by the Local Government Act 1972. Each county or shire consisted of fewer than a dozen hundreds corresponding with varying degrees of accuracy to the former commotes.

Wales elected members to the English (Westminster) Parliament, and the Council of Wales and the Marches was established on a legal basis. The Court of Great Sessions was established, a system peculiar to Wales, with a Sheriff appointed in every county, and other county officers as in England. The courts of the marcher lordships lost the power to try serious criminal cases, all courts in Wales were to be conducted in the English language, not Welsh, and the office of justice of the peace was introduced, nine to every county.

Effects
In the Welsh Principality, assimilation had already been greatly implemented and so the 1536 and 1542/43 acts in reality brought some legal consistency across Wales, effectively extending the Principality to the Welsh Marches and ending use of Welsh law.

The legal simplicity made it easier for the English crown to collect tax in Wales. After the conquest of Wales by Edward I, the counties of Anglesey, Caernarfonshire, Cardiganshire, Carmarthenshire, Flintshire and Merionethshire were added to by the formerly Marcher counties of Brecknockshire, Denbighshire, Glamorgan, Montgomeryshire, Pembrokeshire and Radnorshire. This also formed a legal border with England.

Although the poor people of Wales may not have been aware of the laws, the measures were popular with the Welsh gentry who saw the acts as bringing legal equality with English citizens. The Acts were also seen by the gentry as reducing the influence of the marcher lords.

English was made the legal language in Wales, which was symbolically unjust for the majority Welsh monoglot population. Although the centre of political power was England, the Welsh language remained the language of the people and the land.

title: Laws in Wales Acts 1535 and 1542


text:
Talk:Le Mans

Untitled
"Les rillettes du Mans" never "La rillette du Mans".

 * as you say, boss. olivier 02:09 Jan 13, 2003 (UTC)

The pronunciation.
I suppose the ending 's' in French is silent. Therefore it should be 'luh-mon' instead of 'luh-mons,' as verified by Merriam-Webster's online dictionary.
 * You're right. I delete this unwanted symbol right now.--86.214.74.164 (talk) 03:50, 2 November 2009 (UTC)

Removing Audi A6 Special Edition
I believe this section should be added to another area if it is kept at all as it is more about the car and being named after the endurance race than about the city itself. It is a nice fun fact, but I don't believe it should be it's own separate section. --sirgregmac 13:13, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Does Le Mans have a light rail system?
Google Earth shows some tracks and a rail yard (near the Circuit de la Sarthe) being built. I didn't know if this was light rail or something else. Will (Talk - contribs) 08:25, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

 * A few years late answering this question, but yes. :) See Le Mans tramway. --Delirium (talk) 13:40, 20 June 2014 (UTC)

Timeline of Le Mans
What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content! Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 12:28, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Le Mans


text:
Hélène Cixous

Hélène Cixous (born 5 June 1937) is a French writer, playwright and literary critic. During her academic career, she was primarily associated with the Centre universitaire de Vincennes (today's University of Paris VIII), which she co-founded in 1969 and where she created the first centre of women's studies at a European university. Known for her experimental writing style and great versatility as a writer and thinker, she has written more than seventy books dealing with multiple genres: theatre, literary and feminist theory, art criticism, autobiography and poetic fiction.

She first gained attention in 1969 with her first work of fiction, Dedans (Inside), a semi-autobiographical novel which won the Prix Médicis and explored the themes of identity, memory, death and writing. She is perhaps best known for her 1976 article "The Laugh of the Medusa", which established her as one of the early thinkers in post-structural feminism. She has collaborated with several artists and directors, such as Adel Abdessemed, Pierre Alechinsky, Simone Benmussa, Jacques Derrida, Simon Hantaï, Daniel Mesguich and Ariane Mnouchkine. She is considered a strong contender for the Nobel Prize in Literature.

Personal life
Cixous was born in Oran, French Algeria, to Jewish parents, Eve Cixous, née Klein, (1910–2013) and Georges Cixous (1909–1948). Georges Cixous, a physician who had written his dissertation on tuberculosis, died of the disease in 1948. Eve Cixous became a midwife in Algiers following his death, "until her expulsion with the last French doctors and midwives in 1971." Cixous' brother, Pierre, "a medical student and a supporter of Algerian independence" was condemned to death in 1961 by the Organisation armée secrète, and joined Cixous in Bordeaux. Her mother and brother returned to Algeria following the country's independence in 1962. They were arrested, and Cixous "obtained their release with the help of Ahmed Ben Bella's lawyer."

Cixous married Guy Berger in 1955, with whom she had three children, Anne-Emmanuelle (b. 1958), Stéphane (1960–1961), and Pierre-François (b. 1961). Cixous and Berger divorced in 1964.

Academic career
Cixous earned her agrégation in English in 1959 and her Doctorat ès lettres in 1968. Her main focus, at this time, was English literature and the works of James Joyce. Cixous became assistante at the University of Bordeaux in 1962, served as maître assistante at the Sorbonne from 1965 to 1967, and was appointed maître de conférence at Paris Nanterre University in 1967.

In 1968, following the French student riots, Cixous was charged with founding the University of Paris VIII, "created to serve as an alternative to the traditional French academic environment." Cixous would, in 1974, found the University's centre for women's studies, the first in Europe. Cixous is a professor at the University of Paris VIII and at the European Graduate School in Saas-Fee, Switzerland.

Publications
In 1968, Cixous published her doctoral dissertation L'Exil de James Joyce ou l'Art du remplacement (The Exile of James Joyce, or the Art of Displacement) and the following year she published her first novel, Dedans (Inside), a semi-autobiographical work that won the Prix Médicis.

She has published widely, including twenty-three volumes of poems, six books of essays, five plays, and numerous influential articles. She published Voiles (Veils) with Jacques Derrida and her work is often considered deconstructive. In introducing her Wellek Lecture, subsequently published as Three Steps on the Ladder of Writing, Derrida referred to her as the greatest living writer in his language (French). Cixous wrote a book on Derrida titled Portrait de Jacques Derrida en jeune saint juif (Portrait of Jacques Derrida as a Young Jewish Saint). Her reading of Derrida finds additional layers of meaning at a phonemic rather than strictly lexical level. In addition to Derrida and Joyce, she has written monographs on the work of the Brazilian writer Clarice Lispector, on Maurice Blanchot, Franz Kafka, Heinrich von Kleist, Michel de Montaigne, Ingeborg Bachmann, Thomas Bernhard, and the Russian poet Marina Tsvetaeva. Cixous is also the author of essays on artists, including Simon Hantaï, Pierre Alechinsky and Adel Abdessemed to whom she has devoted two books.

Along with Luce Irigaray and Julia Kristeva, Cixous is considered one of the mothers of poststructuralist feminist theory. In the 1970s, Cixous began writing about the relationship between sexuality and language. Like other poststructuralist feminist theorists, Cixous believes that our sexuality is directly tied to how we communicate in society. In 1975, Cixous published her most influential article "Le rire de la méduse" ("The Laugh of the Medusa"), which was revised by her, translated into English by Paula Cohen and Keith Cohen, and released in English in 1976. She has published over 70 works; her fiction, dramatic writing, and poetry, however, are not often read in English.

Film
Hélène Cixous is featured in Olivier Morel's 118-minute film Ever, Rêve, Hélène Cixous (France, USA, 2018).

Accolades and awards
Cixous holds honorary degrees from Queen's University and the University of Alberta in Canada; University College Dublin in Ireland; the University of York and University College London in the UK; and Georgetown University, Northwestern University, and the University of Wisconsin–Madison in the USA. In 2008 she was appointed as A.D. White Professor-at-Large at Cornell University until June 2014.

Influences on Cixous' writing
Some of the most notable influences on her writings have been Jacques Derrida, Sigmund Freud, Jacques Lacan and Arthur Rimbaud.

Sigmund Freud
Psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud established the initial theories that would serve as a basis for some of Cixous' arguments in developmental psychology. Freud's analysis of gender roles and sexual identity concluded with separate paths for boys and girls through the Oedipus complex and Electra complex, theories of which Cixous was particularly critical. She joined other scholars in positing The Freudian Coverup.

Jacques Derrida
Contemporaries, lifelong friends, and intellectuals, Jacques Derrida and Cixous both grew up as French Jews in Algeria and share a "belonging constituted of exclusion and nonbelonging"—not Algerian, rejected by France, their Jewishness concealed or acculturated. In Derrida's family, "one never said 'circumcision' but 'baptism,' not 'Bar Mitzvah' but 'communion.'" Judaism cloaked in Catholicism is one example of the undecidability of identity that influenced the thinker whom Cixous calls a "Jewish Saint". Her book Portrait of Jacques Derrida as a Young Jewish Saint addresses these matters.

Through deconstruction, Derrida employed the term logocentrism (which was not his coinage). This is the concept that explains how language relies on a hierarchical system that values the spoken word over the written word in Western culture. The idea of binary opposition is essential to Cixous' position on language.

Cixous and Luce Irigaray combined Derrida's logocentric idea and Lacan's symbol for desire, creating the term phallogocentrism. This term focuses on Derrida's social structure of speech and binary opposition as the centre of reference for language, with the phallic being privileged and how women are only defined by what they lack; not A vs. B, but, rather A vs. ¬A (not-A).

In a dialogue between Derrida and Cixous, Derrida said about Cixous: "Helene's texts are translated across the world, but they remain untranslatable. We are two French writers who cultivate a strange relationship, or a strangely familiar relationship with the French language – at once more translated and more untranslatable than many a French author. We are more rooted in the French language than those with ancestral roots in this culture and this land."

The Laugh of the Medusa (1975)
Cixous' critical feminist essay "The Laugh of the Medusa", originally written in French as Le Rire de la Méduse in 1975, was (after she revised it) translated into English by Paula Cohen and Keith Cohen in 1976. It has become a seminal essay, particularly because it announces what Cixous called écriture féminine, a distinctive mode of writing by women and for women.

Selected books

 * co-authored with Jacques Derrida.
 * Foreword by Jacques Derrida.
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * co-authored with Jacques Derrida.
 * Foreword by Jacques Derrida.
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * co-authored with Jacques Derrida.
 * Foreword by Jacques Derrida.
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * co-authored with Jacques Derrida.
 * Foreword by Jacques Derrida.
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * co-authored with Jacques Derrida.
 * Foreword by Jacques Derrida.
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * co-authored with Jacques Derrida.
 * Foreword by Jacques Derrida.
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Foreword by Jacques Derrida.
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Foreword by Jacques Derrida.
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7
 * Well-Kept Ruins. Translation by Beverley Bie Brahic, Seagull Books, 2022 ISBN 9781 80309 059 7

Plays

 * "The Conquest of the School at Madhubai," trans. Carpenter, Deborah. 1986.
 * "The Name of Oedipus," trans. Christiane Makward & Miller, Judith. In: Out of Bounds: Women's Theatre in French. Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press. 1992.
 * "The Terrible but Unfinished Story of Norodom Sihanouk, King of Cambodia," trans. Juliet Flower MacCannell, Judith Pike, and Lollie Groth. University of Nebraska Press, 1994.

Criticism

 * L'Exil de James Joyce ou l'Art du remplacement (The Exile of James Joyce, or the Art of Displacement). 1969 (1985).

Books

 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020
 * Ruines bien rangées published by Éditions Gallimard, 2020

Theatre

 * La Pupulle, Cahiers Renaud-Barrault, Gallimard, 1971.
 * Portrait de Dora, Des femmes, 1976.
 * Le Nom d'Oedipe. Chant du corps interdit, Des femmes, 1978.
 * La Prise de l'école de Madhubaï, Avant-scène du Théâtre, 1984.
 * L'Histoire terrible mais inachevée de Norodom Sihanouk, roi du Cambodge, Théâtre du Soleil, 1985.
 * Théâtre, Des femmes, 1986.
 * L'Indiade, ou l'Inde de leurs rêves, Théâtre du Soleil, 1987.
 * On ne part pas, on ne revient pas, Des femmes, 1991.
 * Les Euménides d'Eschyle (traduction), Théâtre du Soleil, 1992.
 * L'Histoire (qu'on ne connaîtra jamais), Des femmes, 1994.
 * "Voile Noire Voile Blanche / Black Sail White Sail", bilingual, trad. Catherine A.F. MacGillivray, New Literary History 25, 2 (Spring), Minnesota University Press, 1994.
 * La Ville parjure ou le Réveil des Érinyes, Théâtre du Soleil, 1994.
 * Jokasta, libretto to the opera of Ruth Schönthal, 1997.
 * Tambours sur la digue, Théâtre du Soleil, 1999.
 * Rouen, la Trentième Nuit de Mai '31, Galilée, 2001.
 * Le Dernier Caravansérail, Théâtre du Soleil, 2003.
 * Les Naufragés du Fol Espoir, Théâtre du Soleil, 2010.

Selected essays

 * L'Exil de James Joyce ou l'Art du remplacement (doctoral thesis), Grasset, 1969.
 * Prénoms de personne, Le Seuil, 1974.
 * The Exile of James Joyce or the Art of Replacement (translation by Sally Purcell of L'exil de James Joyce ou l'Art du remplacement). New York: David Lewis, 1980.
 * Un K. Incompréhensible : Pierre Goldman, Christian Bourgois, 1975.
 * La Jeune Née, with Catherine Clément, 10/18, 1975.
 * La Venue à l'écriture, with Madeleine Gagnon and Annie Leclerc, 10/18, 1977.
 * Entre l'écriture, Des femmes, 1986.
 * L'Heure de Clarice Lispector, Des femmes, 1989.
 * Photos de racines, with Mireille Calle-Gruber, Des femmes, 1994.
 * Lettre à Zohra Drif, 1998
 * Portrait de Jacques Derrida en Jeune Saint Juif, Galilée, 2001.
 * Rencontre terrestre, with Frédéric-Yves Jeannet, Galilée, 2005.
 * Le Tablier de Simon Hantaï, 2005.
 * Insister. À Jacques Derrida, Galilée, 2006.
 * Le Voisin de zéro : Sam Beckett, Galilée, 2007
 * Défions l'augure (on the quote 'we defy augury' from Hamlet), Galilée, 2018

title: Hélène Cixous