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Smolin

Smolin (masculine) or Smolina (feminine) is a last name shared by the following people:
 * Anna Smolina (b. 1994), Russian tennis player
 * Barry Smolin (b. 1961), American radio host, composer, and writer
 * David M. Smolin, American law professor
 * Ivan Smolin (fl. 1920), commander of the Soviet 21st Rifle Division
 * John A. Smolin (b. 1967), American physicist
 * Lee Smolin (b. 1955), American theoretical physicist
 * Svetlana Smolina, Russian pianist
 * Yefim Smolin, Russian glass-maker

title: Smolin


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NferNelson

nferNelson is the former name of GL Assessment, a leading independent provider of tests and other assessment services for education in the United Kingdom. Their products, which include assessments for the 0–19 age group, have a national reputation.

nferNelson were founded by the National Foundation for Educational Research (NFER), and became part of the Granada Learning Group in 2000.

In December 2007 NFER-Nelson's name was formally changed to GL Assessment

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: NferNelson


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Talk:Society of Mind theory

 * Minksy's ideas have been developed further by other cognitive scientists, including Daniel Dennett and Douglas Hofstadter.

Can someone clarify, at very least, which works of these two authors count as developing Minsky's ideas? For Hofstadter, I assume GEB is the work in question, although it's not altogether transparent what parts of the book gave rise to this claim, or if other people would make the same claim. --Ryguasu 19:51 Feb 20, 2003 (UTC)

title: Talk:Society of Mind theory


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The Office

The Office is the title of a number of mockumentary sitcoms based on a British series originally created by Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant as The Office in 2001. The original series also starred Gervais as the boss and main character of the show. The two series were broadcast on BBC Two in 2001 and 2002, totalling 12 episodes, with two special episodes in 2003, and an extra short spectacular ten years later. Versions of the original were subsequently made in Germany, the United States, and many other countries.

The longest-running version of the series, the U.S. adaptation, ran for nine seasons on the NBC Television Network from 2005 to 2013, with a total of 201 episodes. According to Nielsen Ratings as of April 2019, the US version of The Office was the No. 1 streamed show on Netflix in the United States. A follow-up of the US version was announced in late 2023 following the end of the labor disputes in Hollywood and has been picked up by Peacock, a streaming service owned by NBCUniversal Media Group.

==International versions==

Counterparts

 * Notes

Selected major awards

 * UK version: 2005 Golden Globes for Best Television Series – Musical or Comedy and Best Performance by an Actor in a Television Series – Musical or Comedy (Ricky Gervais); 2001, 2002 and 2003 British Academy Television Awards for Situation Comedy and Best Comedy Performance (Ricky Gervais)
 * US version: 2006 Golden Globe for Best Performance by an Actor in a Television Series – Musical or Comedy (Steve Carell); 2006 Emmy Award for Outstanding Comedy Series; 2007 Screen Actors Guild Award for Outstanding Performance by an Ensemble in a Comedy Series; 2007 Emmy Award for Outstanding Writing for a Comedy Series (Greg Daniels); 2009 Primetime Emmy Award for Outstanding Directing for a Comedy Series (Jeffrey Blitz). For other awards and honors see List of awards and nominations received by The Office (American TV series)
 * German version: 2006 Grimme Award for Fiction/Entertainment – Series/Miniseries; 2007 Deutscher Fernsehpreis for Best Sitcom and Best Book; 2006, 2007, 2010 and 2012 Deutscher Comedypreis for Best Actor in a Comedy Series (Christoph Maria Herbst).

title: The Office


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Talk:Reality TV show

This is a blatant Op-Ed. Someone either rewrite or discard this. Gyan 20:07 Feb 20, 2003 (UTC)

 * Theres actually already an article on the subject.. Reality television

title: Talk:Reality TV show


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User:Erich

Hi, I'm Erich from Germany, I'm was born in 1953.

title: User:Erich


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Talk:Samothrace

Untitled
I can't find any reference online to the meaning of "importuosissima omnium"; although it's somewhat clear in context, I'd love to provide an accurate translation. Catherine

Include Turkish name form?
Hi, I noticed there's a slow revert war going on about whether or not to include the Turkish name form. Seems to be similar with other Greek island names. My personal view is that there's nothing wrong with including name forms of a neighbouring language for geographical units; especially in areas where national borders have shifted in the course of the last centuries, or for geographical units that otherwise have connections not only to the nation state they are now in but also to some other country/language.

Including such a name in Wikipedia should not be construed as suggesting or even endorsing territorial or irridentist claims by the other country involved, or whatever else it is that Greek editors don't like about the Turkish names. It's perfectly innocent, useful encyclopedic information.

Look at some precedents in Wikipedia: Lukas 08:38, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Liège in Wallonic Belgium includes both Flemish Luik and German Lüttich.
 * Wrocław (Poland) includes both German Breslau (which relates to a historical change of national sovereignty, and potential POV issue) and Czech Vratislav (which does not).
 * Vienna (Austria) includes name forms in Slovenian, Hungarian, Czeck, Slovak, Romany, Croatian and Serbian.
 * Of course, places in Turkey regularly include Greek versions, just think of Izmir/Σμύρνη/Smyrna.

Turkish names are irrelevant
The majority of Greek islands never had a significant ethnically Turkish population. Accordingly, the Turkish pronounciation of Greek names is irrelevant, and including them only inflames nationalist sentiments.

As for Izmir, Istanbul, and other Turkish cities that formerly had sizeable Greek populations, the Greek name serves for historical purposes. Plus, in most cases, the Turkish name is just a mispronounciation of the original Greek:

Izmir - I Smyrni (The Smyrna)

Istanbul - Is Tin Poli (into the City)--PrudenceBumpkin 21:35, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Passive
This is English, not Greek. There is no English middle voice, and the passive is wordy; please avoid it. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 22:47, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Needs a section of the dance festival?
What do people think?  Tu rk ey ph an t 10:51, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Samothrace


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Norma (constellation)

Norma is a small constellation in the Southern Celestial Hemisphere between Ara and Lupus, one of twelve drawn up in the 18th century by French astronomer Nicolas-Louis de Lacaille and one of several depicting scientific instruments. Its name is Latin for normal, referring to a right angle, and is variously considered to represent a rule, a carpenter's square, a set square or a level. It remains one of the 88 modern constellations.

Four of Norma's brighter stars—Gamma, Delta, Epsilon and Eta—make up a square in the field of faint stars. Gamma2 Normae is the brightest star with an apparent magnitude of 4.0. Mu Normae is one of the most luminous stars known, with a luminosity between a quarter million and one million times that of the Sun. Four star systems are known to harbour planets. The Milky Way passes through Norma, and the constellation contains eight open clusters visible to observers with binoculars. The constellation also hosts Abell 3627, also called the Norma Cluster, one of the most massive galaxy clusters known.

From the perspective of an observer on Earth, the Norma Arm of the Milky Way passes through the constellation Norma, and it's from the constellation that the arm's name is derived.

History
Norma was introduced in 1751–52 by Nicolas-Louis de Lacaille with the French name l’Équerre et la Règle, "the Square and Rule", after he had observed and catalogued 10,000 southern stars during a two-year stay at the Cape of Good Hope. He devised 14 new constellations in uncharted regions of the Southern Celestial Hemisphere not visible from Europe. All but one honoured instruments that symbolised the Age of Enlightenment. Lacaille portrayed the constellations of Norma, Circinus and Triangulum Australe, respectively, as a set square and ruler, a compass, and a surveyor's level in a set of draughtsman instruments, in his 1756 map of the southern stars. The level was dangling from the apex of a triangle, leading some astronomers to conclude he was renaming l’Équerre et la Règle to "le Niveau", "the level". In any case, the constellation's name had been shortened and Latinised by Lacaille to Norma by 1763.

Characteristics
Norma is bordered by Scorpius to the north, Lupus to the northwest, Circinus to the west, Triangulum Australe to the south and Ara to the east. Covering 165.3 square degrees and 0.401% of the night sky, it ranks 74th of the 88 constellations in size. The three-letter abbreviation for the constellation, as adopted by the International Astronomical Union in 1922, is "Nor". The official constellation boundaries, as set by Belgian astronomer Eugène Delporte in 1930, are defined by a polygon of ten segments. In the equatorial coordinate system, the right ascension coordinates of these borders lie between 15:12:13.6119 and 16:36:08.3235, while the declination coordinates are between −42.27° and −60.44°. The whole constellation is visible to observers south of latitude 29°N.

Stars
Lacaille charted and designated ten stars with the Bayer designations Alpha through to Mu in 1756, however his Alpha Normae was transferred into Scorpius and left unnamed by Francis Baily, before being named N Scorpii by Benjamin Apthorp Gould, who felt its brightness warranted recognition. Though Beta Normae was depicted on his star chart, it was inadvertently left out of Lacaille's 1763 catalogue, was likewise transferred to Scorpio by Baily and named H Scorpii by Gould. Norma's brightest star, Gamma2 Normae, is only of magnitude 4.0. Overall, there are 44 stars within the constellation's borders brighter than or equal to apparent magnitude 6.5.

The four main stars—Gamma, Delta, Epsilon and Eta—make up a square in this region of faint stars. Gamma1 and Gamma2 Normae are an optical double, and not a true binary star system. Located 129 ± 1 light-years away from Earth, Gamma2 Normae is a yellow giant of spectral type G8III around 2 to 2.5 times as massive as the Sun. It has swollen to a diameter 10 times that of the Sun and shines with 45 times the Sun's luminosity. It also is half of a close optical double, with a magnitude 10 companion star related by line of sight only. Gamma1 Normae is a yellow-white supergiant, located much further away at around 1500 light-years from Earth. Epsilon Normae is a spectroscopic binary, with two blue-white main sequence stars of almost equal mass and spectral type (B3V) orbiting each other every 3.26 days. There is a third star separated by 22 arcseconds, which has a magnitude of 7.5 and is likely a smaller B-type main sequence star of spectral type B9V. The system is 530 ± 20 light-years distant from Earth, Eta Normae is a yellow giant of spectral type G8III with an apparent magnitude of 4.65. It shines with a luminosity approximately 66 times that of the Sun.

Iota1 Normae is a multiple star system. The AB (mag 5.2 and 5.76) pair orbit each other with a period of 26.9 years; they are 2.77 and 2.71 times as massive as the Sun respectively. The pair are 128 ± 6 light-years distant from Earth. A third component is a yellow main sequence star of spectral type G8V with an apparent magnitude of 8.02.

Mu Normae is a remote blue supergiant of spectral type O9.7Iab, one of the most luminous stars known, but is partially obscured by distance and cosmic dust. Uncertainties regarding its distance leave open the possibility that Mu Normae could be between 250,000 and one million times as luminous and up to 60 times as massive as the Sun, though it is more likely to have around 500,000 times the Sun's luminosity and 40 times its mass. It is suspected of being an Alpha Cygni variable, with a magnitude range of 4.87–4.98. QU Normae is another hot blue-white star that is a variable, ranging from magnitude 5.27 to 5.41 over 4.8 days. Lying near Eta Normae is R Normae, a Mira variable. Its visual magnitude range is 6.5–13.9 and its average period is 507.5 days. Located halfway between Eta Normae and Gamma Circini is T Normae, another Mira variable. It ranges from magnitude 6.2 to 13.6, with a period of 244 days. S Normae is a well-known Cepheid variable with a magnitude range of 6.12–6.77 and a period of 9.75411 days. It is located at the centre of the open cluster NGC 6087. It is a yellow-white supergiant of spectral type F8-G0Ib that is 6.3 times as massive as the Sun. A binary, it has a 2.4 solar mass companion that is a blue-white main sequence star of spectral type B9.5V. A binary system composed of two wolf-rayet stars, colloquially called Apep, has been identified as a possible progenitor of a long gamma-ray burst. Located around 8000 light-years distant, it would be the first such in the Milky Way.

IM Normae is one of only ten recurrent novae known in the Milky Way. It has erupted in 1920 and 2002, reaching magnitude 8.5 from a baseline of 18.3. It was poorly monitored after the first eruption, so it is possible that it erupted in between. Norma hosts two faint R Coronae Borealis variable stars of magnitude 10—RT Normae and RZ Normae—rare degenerate stars thought to have formed from the merger of two white dwarfs that fade by several magnitudes periodically as they eject large amounts of carbon dust. A faint object of magnitude 16, QV Normae is a high mass X-ray binary star system 15,000–20,000 light-years distant from Earth. It is composed of a neutron star orbiting a blue-white supergiant approximately 20 times as massive as the Sun. The stellar wind from the more massive star is drawn to the magnetic poles of the neutron star, forming an accretion column and producing X-rays. Located 19,000 light-years away, QX Normae is an active low mass X ray binary composed of a neutron star and its companion star that is smaller and cooler than the Sun. The neutron star is 1.74 ± 0.14 times as massive as the Sun, yet its radius is a mere 9.3 ± 1.0 km. 1E161348-5055 is a neutron star found in the centre of RCW103 supernova remnant. A periodic X-ray source with a period of 6.67 hours, it is approximately 2000 years old and 10,000 light-years away from Earth. It is unusual in that it is spinning much too slowly for its young age, behaving instead like a multi-million-year-old star. SGR J1550-5418 is a soft gamma repeater (SGR)—a magnetar that is emitting gamma ray flares, located some 30,000 light-years distant from Earth. The rotation period, of approximately 2.07 seconds, is the fastest yet observed for a magnetar. XTE J1550-564 is another X-ray binary, this time composed of a large black hole around 10 times as massive as the Sun and a cool orange donor star. The black hole is a microquasar, firing off jets of material most likely from its accretion disk.

Exoplanets
Four star systems are known to harbour planets. HD 330075 is a sunlike star around 164 light-years distant that is orbited by a hot Jupiter every 3.4 days. Announced in 2004, it was the first planet discovered by the HARPS spectrograph. HD 148156 is a star 168 ± 7 light-years distant. Slightly larger and hotter than the Sun, it was found to have a roughly Jupiter-size planet with an orbital period of 2.8 years. HD 143361 is a binary star system composed of a sunlike star and a faint red dwarf separated by 30.9 AU. A planet roughly triple the mass of Jupiter orbits the brighter star every 1057± 20 days. HD 142415 is approximately 113 light-years distant and has a Jupiter-sized planet with an orbital period of around 386 days.

Deep-sky objects
Due to its location on the Milky Way, this constellation contains many deep-sky objects such as star clusters, including eight open clusters visible through binoculars. NGC 6087 is the brightest of the open clusters in Norma with a magnitude of 5.4. It lies in the southeastern corner of the constellation between Alpha Centauri and Zeta Arae. Thought to be around 100 million years old, it is about 3300 light-years away and is around 14 light-years in diameter. Its brightest member is the Cepheid variable S Normae. A rich background star field makes it less distinct, though around 36 member stars are visible though a 10 cm telescope at 150x magnification. Located 0.4° north of Kappa Normae is NGC 6067, which has an integrated magnitude of 5.6 though it is indistinct as it lies in a rich star field. It is thought to be around 102 million years old, and contain 891 solar masses. Two Cepheid variables—QZ Normae and V340 Normae—have been identified as members of the cluster. Fainter open clusters include NGC 6134 with a combined magnitude of 7.2 and located 4000 light-years away from Earth, the spread-out NGC 6167 of magnitude 6.7, NGC 6115 near Gamma Normae, NGC 6031 and NGC 5999.

Located around 4900 light-years distant is Shapley 1 (or PK 329+02.1), a planetary nebula better known as the Fine-Ring Nebula. Appearing ring-shaped, it is thought that it actually is cylindrical and oriented directly at Earth. Around 8700 years old, it lies about five degrees west-northwest of Gamma1 Normae. Its integrated magnitude is 13.6 and its mean surface brightness is 13.9. The central star is a white dwarf of magnitude 14.03. Mz 1 is a bipolar planetary nebula, thought to be an hourglass shape tilted at an angle to observers on Earth, some 3500 light-years distant. Mz 3—known as the Ant Nebula as it resembles an ant—has a complex appearance, with at least four outflow jets and two large lobes visible.

Approximately 200 million light-years from Earth with a redshift of 0.016 is Abell 3627; also called the Norma Cluster, it is one of the most massive galaxy clusters known to exist, at ten times the average cluster mass. Abell 3627 is thus theorized to be the Great Attractor, a massive object that is pulling the Local Group, the Virgo Supercluster, and the Hydra–Centaurus Supercluster towards its location at 600–1000 kilometres per second.

Meteor shower
The relatively weak meteor shower Gamma Normids (GNO), which is typically active from March 7 to 23, peaking on March 15, has its radiant near Gamma2 Normae.

Galactic Arm
The Norma Arm is a minor galactic arm named after Norma for lying in its background.

title: Norma (constellation)


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Norma

Norma may refer to:
 * Norma (given name), a given name (including a list of people with the name)
 * Norma Lizbeth Ramos, a Mexican bullying victim

Astronomy

 * Norma (constellation)
 * 555 Norma, a minor asteroid
 * Cygnus Arm or Norma Arm, a spiral arm in the Milky Way galaxy

Geography

 * Norma, Lazio, a city in the province of Latina, Italy
 * Norma, Tibet
 * Norma Triangle, a neighborhood of West Hollywood, California

Arts, entertainment, and media

 * Norma (album), by Mon Laferte
 * Norma (journal), in men's studies
 * Norma (opera), by Vincenzo Bellini
 * Norma (play), by Henrik Ibsen
 * Grupo Editorial Norma, a Colombian publishing house
 * Norma Editorial, a comics publishing company in Spain, unrelated to Grupo Editorial Norma
 * Norma, a 1942 sculpture by Abram Belskie
 * Norma, a novel by Vladimir Sorokin

Other uses

 * Norma (AK-86), a never-commissioned U.S. Navy cargo vessel
 * Norma (supermarket), a supermarket in Europe
 * NoRMA, No Remote Memory Access, a computer memory architecture for multiprocessor systems
 * NORMA (software modeling tool), Neumont Object-Role Modeling Architect
 * Norma Auto Concept, a French racing car constructor
 * Norma Precision, a Swedish ammunition manufacturer
 * Norma (Estonian company), produces car safety system components
 * List of storms named Norma, numerous tropical cyclones worldwide have been named Norma
 * FC Norma Tallinn, an Estonian football club

title: Norma


text:
Ross McElwee

Ross McElwee is an American documentary filmmaker known for his autobiographical films about his family and personal life, usually interwoven with an episodic journey that intersects with larger political  or philosophical issues. His humorous and often self-deprecating films refer to cultural aspects of his Southern upbringing. He received the Career Award at the 2007 Full Frame Documentary Film Festival.

Early life and education
Ross McElwee grew up in Charlotte, North Carolina, in a traditional Southern family. His father was a surgeon and appears often as a figure in McElwee's early films. McElwee later attended Brown University, where he studied under novelist John Hawkes, and graduated in 1971 with a degree in creative writing. While at Brown, he also cross-registered in still photography courses at Rhode Island School of Design.

After graduating, McElwee lived for a year in Brittany, France, where he worked for a while as a wedding photographer's assistant. Upon returning to the US, he was admitted into MIT's new graduate filmmaking program and graduated in 1977 with an M.S. While at MIT, he studied under documentarians Richard Leacock and Ed Pincus, both pioneers of the cinéma vérité movement, with whom he refined his first-person narrative approach. "It was a new way of making films, to eliminate the film crew. You lose some technical polish, but it's much more intimate and less intimidating to your subjects. It allows you to shoot with the autonomy and flexibility of a photojournalist."

Career
McElwee's film career began in his hometown, Charlotte, North Carolina, where he found summer employment as a studio cameraman for local evening news, housewife helper shows, and "gospel hour" programs. Later, he freelanced as second cameraman for documentarians D.A. Pennebaker, and later for John Marshall in Namibia. McElwee started filming and producing his own documentaries in 1976.

McElwee began teaching filmmaking at Harvard University in 1986; he was a professor of the practice of filmmaking in the Department of Visual and Environmental Studies.

McElwee has made ten feature-length documentaries and several shorter films. Most of his films were shot in his homeland, the American South, among them Sherman's March (1986), Time Indefinite, Six O'Clock News, and Bright Leaves. He collaborated with his wife, Marilyn Levine, on Something to do with the Wall. His 2011 film, Photographic Memory, breaks new ground in its fully digital process and in its open development and production structure.

Recognition
Sherman's March won numerous awards, including Best Documentary at the Sundance Film Festival. It was cited by the National Board of Film Critics as one of the five best films of 1986. Time Indefinite won a best film award in several festivals and was distributed theatrically throughout the U.S. Six O'Clock News premiered at the Sundance Film Festival and was broadcast nationally over PBS' Frontline.

McElwee's films have been included in the festivals of Cannes, Berlin, London, Venice, Vienna, Rotterdam, Florence, and Sydney. Retrospectives include the Museum of Modern Art, the Art Institute of Chicago, and the Museum of the Moving Image in New York. Retrospectives have also been held in Paris, Tehran, Moscow, Seoul, Lisbon, and Quito. McElwee has received fellowships and grants from the John Simon Guggenheim Memorial Foundation, the Rockefeller Foundation, and the American Film Institute. He has twice been awarded fellowships in filmmaking by the National Endowment for the Arts. Sherman's March was chosen for preservation by the Library of Congress National Film Registry in 2000 as an "historically significant American motion picture".

McElwee's film Bright Leaves premiered at the 2003 Cannes Film Festival's Directors' Fortnight, and was nominated for Best Documentary of 2004 by both the Directors Guild of America and the Writers Guild of America. .

In Paraguay premiered at the Venice Film Festival in 2008. McElwee returned to Venice in 2011 to present the premier of Photographic Memory.

Director

 * Space Coast (1979) co-director Michel Negroponte
 * Charleen (1980)
 * Resident Exile (1981) co-director Alex Anthony and Michel Negroponte
 * Backyard (1984)
 * Sherman's March (1986)
 * Something to Do with the Wall (1990) co-director Marilyn Levine
 * Time Indefinite (1993)
 * Six O'Clock News (1997)
 * Bright Leaves (2003)
 * In Paraguay (2008)
 * Photographic Memory (2011)

title: Ross McElwee


text:
Crucible

A crucible is a container in which metals or other substances may be melted or subjected to very high temperatures. Although crucibles have historically tended to be made out of clay, they can be made from any material that withstands temperatures high enough to melt or otherwise alter its contents.

Typology and chronology
The form of the crucible has varied through time, with designs reflecting the process for which they are used, as well as regional variation. The earliest crucible forms derive from the sixth/fifth millennium B.C. in Eastern Europe and Iran.

Chalcolithic
Crucibles used for copper smelting were generally wide shallow vessels made from clay that lacks refractory properties which is similar to the types of clay used in other ceramics of the time. During the Chalcolithic period, crucibles were heated from the top by using blowpipes. Ceramic crucibles from this time had slight modifications to their designs such as handles, knobs or pouring spouts allowing them to be more easily handled and poured. Early examples of this practice can be seen in Feinan, Jordan. These crucibles have added handles to allow for better manipulation, however, due to the poor preservation of the crucibles there is no evidence of a pouring spout. The main purpose of the crucible during this period was to keep the ore in the area where the heat was concentrated to separate it from impurities before shaping.

A crucible furnace dating to 2300–1900 BC for bronze casting has been found at a religious precinct of Kerma.

Iron Age
The use of crucibles in the Iron Age remains very similar to that of the Bronze Age with copper and tin smelting being used to produce bronze. The Iron Age crucible designs remain the same as the Bronze Age.

The Roman period shows technical innovations, with crucibles for new methods used to produce new alloys. The smelting and melting process also changed with both the heating technique and the crucible design. The crucible changed into rounded or pointed bottom vessels with a more conical shape; these were heated from below, unlike prehistoric types which were irregular in shape and were heated from above. These designs gave greater stability within the charcoal. These crucibles in some cases have thinner walls and have more refractory properties.

During the Roman period a new process of metalworking started, cementation, used in the production of brass. This process involves the combination of a metal and a gas to produce an alloy. Brass is made by mixing solid copper metal with zinc oxide or carbonate which comes in the form of calamine or smithsonite. This is heated to about 900 °C, the zinc oxide vaporizes into a gas, and the zinc gas bonds with the molten copper. This reaction has to take place in a part-closed or closed container otherwise the zinc vapor would escape before it can react with the copper. Cementation crucibles, therefore, have a lid or cap which limits the amount of gas loss from the crucible. The crucible design is similar to the smelting and melting crucibles of the period utilizing the same material as the smelting and melting crucibles. The conical shape and smallmouth allowed the lid to be added. These small crucibles are seen in Colonia Ulpia Trajana (modern-day Xanten), Germany, where the crucibles are around 4 cm in size, however, these are small examples. There are examples of larger vessels such as cooking pots and amphorae being used for cementation to process larger amounts of brass; since the reaction takes place at low temperatures lower fired ceramics could be used. The ceramic vessels which are used are important as the vessel must be able to lose gas through the walls otherwise the pressure would break the vessel. Cementation vessels are mass-produced due to crucibles having to be broken open to remove the brass once the reaction has finished as in most cases the lid would have baked hard to the vessel or the brass might have adhered to the vessel walls.

Medieval period
Smelting and melting of copper and its alloys such as leaded bronze was done in crucibles similar to those of the Roman period which have thinner walls and flat bases to sit within the furnaces. The technology for this type of smelting started to change at the end of the Medieval period with the introduction of new tempering material for the ceramic crucibles. Some of these copper alloy crucibles were used in the making of bells. Bell foundry crucibles had to be larger at about 60 cm. These later medieval crucibles were a more mass-produced product.

The cementation process, which was lost from the end of the Roman to the early Medieval period, continued in the same way with brass. Brass production increased during the medieval period due to a better understanding of the technology behind it. Furthermore, the process for carrying out cementation for brass did not change greatly until the 19th century.

However, during this period a vast and highly important technological innovation happened using the cementation process, the production of crucible steel. Steel production using iron and carbon works similarly to brass, with the iron metal being mixed with carbon to produce steel. The first examples of cementation steel are wootz steel from India, where the crucibles were filled with good quality low-carbon wrought iron and carbon in the form of organics such as leaves, wood, etc. However, no charcoal was used within the crucible. These early crucibles would only produce a small amount of steel as they would have to be broken once the process has finished.

By the late Medieval period, steel production had moved from India to modern-day Uzbekistan where new materials were being used in the production of steel crucibles, for example, Mullite crucibles were introduced. These were sandy clay crucibles which had been formed around a fabric tube. These crucibles were used in the same way as other cementation vessels but with a hole in the top of the vessel to allow pressure to escape.

Post-Medieval
At the end of the Medieval Era and into the Post-Medieval Era, new types of crucible designs and processes started. Smelting and melting crucibles types started to become more limited in designs which are produced by a few specialists. The main types used during the Post Medieval period are the Hessian crucibles which were made in the Hesse region in Germany. These are triangular vessels made on a wheel or within a mold using high alumina clay and tempered with pure quartz sand. Furthermore, another specialized crucible which was made at the same time was that of a graphite crucible from southern Germany. These had a very similar design to that of the triangular crucibles from Hesse but they also occur in conical forms. These crucibles were traded all across Europe and the New World.

The refining of methods during the Medieval and Post-Medieval periods led to the invention of the cupel which resembles a small egg cup, made of ceramic or bone ash which was used to separate base metals from noble metals. This process is known as cupellation. Cupellation started long before the Post Medieval period, however, the first vessels made to carry out this process started in the 16th Century. Another vessel used for the same process is a scorifier which is similar to a cupel but slightly larger and removes the lead and leaves the noble metals behind. Cupels and scorifiers were mass-produced as after each reduction the vessels would have absorbed all of the lead and become fully saturated. These vessels were also used in the process of metallurgical assay where the noble metals are removed from a coin or a weight of metal to determine the amount of the noble metals within the object.

Modern-day uses

Crucible is used in the laboratory to contain chemical compounds when heated to extremely high temperatures. Crucibles are available in several sizes and typically come with a correspondingly-sized lid. When heated over a flame, the crucible is often held inside a pipeclay triangle which itself is held on top of a tripod.

Crucibles and their covers are made of high temperature-resistant materials, usually porcelain, alumina or an inert metal. One of the earliest uses of platinum was to make crucibles. Ceramics such as alumina, zirconia, and especially magnesia will tolerate the highest temperatures. More recently, metals such as nickel and zirconium have been used. The lids are typically loose-fitting to allow gases to escape during the heating of a sample inside. Crucibles and their lids can come in high form and low form shapes and in various sizes, but rather small 10 to 15 ml size porcelain crucibles are commonly used for gravimetric chemical analysis. These small-size crucibles and their covers made of porcelain are quite cheap when sold in quantity to laboratories, and the crucibles are sometimes disposed of after use in precise quantitative chemical analysis. There is usually a large mark-up when they are sold individually in hobby shops.

In the area of chemical analysis, crucibles are used in quantitative gravimetric chemical analysis (analysis by measuring mass of an analyte or its derivative). Common crucible use may be as follows. A residue or precipitate in a chemical analysis method can be collected or filtered from some sample or solution on special "ashless" filter paper. The crucible and lid to be used are pre-weighed very accurately on an analytical balance. After some possible washing and/or pre-drying of this filtrate, the residue on the filter paper can be placed in the crucible and fired (heated at very high temperature) until all the volatiles and moisture are driven out of the sample residue in the crucible. The "ashless" filter paper is completely burned up in this process. The crucible with the sample and lid is allowed to cool in a desiccator. The crucible and lid with the sample inside are weighed very accurately again only after it has completely cooled to room temperature (higher temperature would cause air currents around the balance giving inaccurate results). The mass of the empty, pre-weighed crucible and lid is subtracted from this result to yield the mass of the completely dried residue in the crucible.

A crucible with a bottom perforated with small holes which are designed specifically for use in filtration, especially for gravimetric analysis as just described, is called a Gooch crucible after its inventor, Frank Austin Gooch.

For completely accurate results, the crucible is handled with clean tongs because fingerprints can add a weighable mass to the crucible. Porcelain crucibles are hygroscopic, i. e. they absorb a bit of weighable moisture from the air. For this reason, the porcelain crucible and lid is also pre-fired (pre-heating to high temperature) to constant mass before the pre-weighing. This determines the mass of the completely dry crucible and lid. At least two firings, coolings, and weighings resulting in exactly the same mass are needed to confirm the constant (completely dry) mass of the crucible and lid and similarly again for the crucible, lid, and sample residue inside. Since the mass of every crucible and lid is different, the pre-firing/pre-weighing must be done for every new crucible/lid used. The desiccator contains desiccant to absorb moisture from the air inside, so the air inside will be completely dry.

title: Crucible


text:
User talk:Angela/Archive1

>>User talk:Angela/Archive2

''These archives do not always include things that I have written on my talk page myself. The history of my talk page may be seen for that. Sometimes not everything is archived, but a link is provided to the uncut version where this is the case. The page history of this archive includes the page history of my talk page prior to 2004. This is to stop the page history getting too large to be useful. The history between January and June 2004 can be seen in the page history of archive 2.''

Welcome
Hi Angela, welcome to Wikipedia! Looking forward to reading your articles. --KF 20:42 Feb 20, 2003 (UTC)

Ships
Hi, on ships we've typically been leaving in the "insert caption" line as a reminder to go find a picture. It's not bad that you removed it, but there are hundreds more with the note, all waiting for illustration (which are not hard to add BTW, the US navy has many PD photos to choose from, just takes time). Stan 21:49 28 May 2003 (UTC)

 * Sorry Stan. I just assumed it was a mistake. I should have checked with you first. Angela. May 31 2003.

 * No biggie! I might not have said anything, but thought you'd probably prefer to know rather than not know.  It's not often that anyone takes interest in the ship articles! :-) Stan 23:04 31 May 2003 (UTC)

Flowers 1
I've uploaded a flower for you at [[media:Sagittaria.jpg]]. Enjoy :). WikiLove, MB 03:01 5 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Hello Angela. This above is a present from MB to celebrate the woman in you. Thanks for being on the list (and just for being there) :-) User:Anthere

Thanks 1
Thanks so much for welcoming me to the site. :) Take care.  ManicGypsy

Congratulatons
Congratulations, you have just been made a sysop! You have volunteered for boring housekeeping activities which normal users sadly cannot participate in. Sysops basically can't do anything: They cannot delete pages arbitarily (only obvious junk like "jklasdfl,öasdf JOSH IS GAY"), they cannot protect pages in an edit war they are involved in, they cannot ban signed in users. What they can do is delete junk as it appears, ban anonymous vandals, remove pages that have been listed on Votes for deletion for more than a week, protect pages when asked to, and help keep the few protected pages there are, among them the precious Main Page, up to date.

Note that almost everything you can do can be undone, so don't be too worried about making mistakes. You will find more information at Administrators, please take a look before experimenting with your new powers. Drop me a message if there are any questions or if you want to stop being a sysop (could it be?). Have fun! --Eloquence 22:53 17 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Commiserations
Slough and Birmingham. Commiserations,  jimfbleak 19:53 26 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Bugs
Did you see that on recent changes? -- and  lead to the same edit--the one I made. Yours seems to have vanished, though the system says yours came in earlier at 21:12. Koyaanis Qatsi 21:15 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)
 * How strange. It was taking ages to save so I pressed stop on my browser because I decided to write more about it, but then I realised it had saved (as it was in recent changes). Could that have been half-saved when I pressed stop? Angela 21:22 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

 * Wow, I don't know. That's a question for user:Brion Vibber or user:Eloquence.  They know about the software.  Maybe it should have a bug report, too.  Koyaanis Qatsi 21:30 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've left a message for Brion.

Angela, it looks like you've hit the rare but deadly Simultaneous Edit Bug. Alas, your edit is gone; instead, the previous one gets duplicated twice in the history, while yours was saved for bug a few microseconds. :( --Brion 22:03 30 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Thanks 2
Thanks for the welcome. I've always wanted to work on an encyclopedia where I can fix the errors myself :) (this is from bad, bad experiences with an early 1990s version of Compton's Encyclopedia, where a lot of data hadn't been updated in 20 years!)

-lee 22:03 21 Jul 2003 (UTC)

New Imperialism 1
Here is a "temp"; don't let it go to waste. New_Imperialism (temp) Some text, such as the long "definition of imperialism" paragraph at New Imperialism can be moved to imperialism -- other text has been moved to theories of imperialism -- topic specific text on the Panic of 1893 or the Congo Free State or Cecil Rhodes...or....or...etc can be reinserted at those appropriate locations. I urge you to read New Imperialism very closely and you will find some amusing things (not to mention a migraine headache). Pizza Puzzle

Flowers 2
That's a beautiful pic you just uploaded. Koyaanis Qatsi 21:46 25 Jul 2003 (UTC)

Thanks 3
Thank you for the welcome message. Just out of curiosity, is there a list of newcomers somewhere or did you just see my name in 'recent changes'? I hope you like my contribution about data protection in de EU. ;-) It's a dry subject, I know, but a usefull piece of information nonetheless. Hdk 12:49 27 Jul 2003 (UTC)

New Imperialism 2

 * editorial note - the comment below is duplicated on talk:New Imperialism and various user talk pages. Martin 11:56, 29 Jul 2003 (UTC)

You should reconsider your vote on New Imperialism.

...unfair...irresponsible...bad policy...terrible precedent ...undermining the integrity of the entire encyclopedia ...could set off a chain reaction ...dangerous development ...threaten the design of the encyclopedia ...this could be the end of the project ...This could be the end of collaboration ...What enables Wikipedia to function is at stake ...This would set a very bad precedent ...this goes against every principle of encyclopedic design

Summary of 172's attempt to get me to change my vote at 09:08, 29 Jul 2003 (UTC). unsummarised version

 * I see above that you chose to mock me rather than respond. I will never work cooperatively with you. 172 18:19, 1 Aug 2003 (UTC)

SQL
Hi Angela. Some SQL results for you, in a strange format because I'm a developer not a developer, if you get my meaning. -- Tim Starling 14:07, Jul 29, 2003 (UTC)

/SQL query results

Parqués
Hello, Angela. It's --David 20:23, 29 Jul 2003 (UTC)~, the one who wrote the article about Parqués. I'd like to know how can I delete "Ludo.jpg" and "Parques.jpg". I uploaded them yesterday, but I think people should see them on my website instead of here. If you know how to or can delete it, I would thank you very much

Netherlands
Apologies for Netherlands VfD - no hidden agenda, just inadvertently yaken out with things I had deleted. Jim

1000th edit
Please make suggestions below on what my 1000th edit should be.

 * Hello. Well, since you didn't specify whether you wanted an "easy" or "hard" edit (subjective, I know), I'll suggest a semi-hard one. Pick an author, preferably one with an anemic entry (Stephen Crane, John Steinbeck, Thoreau, etc.) and expand it a little (or a lot). Just a suggestion ... not too creative, but it'll do for my entry. :) Notheruser 23:33, 31 Jul 2003 (UTC)
 * Amnesia could use an edit (as in, "more general basic stuff", not as in, "copyedit"). It's an old article, and it happens to the old. --Menchi 01:03, Aug 1, 2003 (UTC)

 * Oh &*$^ I forgot my next edit was meant to be my 1000th and just wasted it completely by getting rid of old stuff from Votes for Deletion. Oh well, thanks for the ideas Notheruser and Menchi. I will work on them all for my 1001st onwards. Angela 17:31, 1 Aug 2003 (UTC)

New Imperialism 3
172 refuses to allow the temp links at New Imperialism. Pizza Puzzle

Cheese
Nice workaround at Who Moved My Cheese. I thought I was going to have to rewrite those two sentences. -- Notheruser 00:16, 2 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Elizabeth Bibesco
Dear Angela, Thanks for your help with my first entry. I tried to put a 100 page biography into one page. Is it O.K. for length? Should there be more or fewer anecdotes? Paul Darby (Elizabeth Bibesco)
 * Hi Paul, I replied on your talk page. Angela 01:16, 2 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Wiki is Wacked
You commented on my talk page:

 * ... I hope you don't mind me pointing out that articles need to be more than external links. You created Jean Gregoire de La Trinite with just a link to . This link has been deleted. If you have more to add, please re-create the article by clicking on the red link above. ... Angela 19:02, 3 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Only problem here is that I never created the La Trinite page, nor do I even know who he is. I agree with you though that Link = Bad.

Clearly Wiki has been having some issues lately.

Dragons flight 15:16, Aug 4, 2003 (UTC)

NOTOC
Thanks, Angela. LDan 17:09, 4 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Simple Wikipedia
Hi Angela. Nice to see a little activity here :) I dont know what can be done for this project. Some one recently asked for a separate simplified Chinese site separate from the Traditional one -- and the thought occured to me that merging all "simple" wikis might be useful. I dunno. Thanks for your vote on RFA, BTW. :) - User:Stevertigo

Temp 5
All I did was switch the Wikipedia in other languages section to small and 4 columns. Other changes have been made without discussion, so I assumed it was allowed. Change it back if you don't like it. LDan 01:41, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * It's the same size as it is currently on the main page. Why is it unreadable? LDan 01:49, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Press release
I'm sorry. I didn't see anything on the talk page about it. LDan 18:15, 7 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Wikiquote
While I think linking to Wikiquote is great, I don't see any need to remove material unless it's overwhelming the article. - Hephaestos 20:51, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * It's a tough call sometimes; I moved a lot out of Robert H. Jackson because it was almost half the article. The same is true of H. L. Mencken, but I'm hesitant to do so in that article, as Mencken's quotes are mainly what he's known for. - Hephaestos 21:00, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * My gut instinct there is to keep them both places; a little duplication isn't going to hurt, I don't think. - Hephaestos 21:08, 8 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Simple English
No, the special characters (if you cant do it) is probably a function of the old software. -If Simple.wiki were to be upgraded, you and I (being the only ones interested apparently - you more than I lately ;) - then one of us can simply ask Brion to do it --on the wikitech mailing list, or on his new "to do" list under his meta userpage. But as I understand it, that would erase some of the old data -- if he doesnt back it up (sometimes not necessary on wikis with only scratch on them). I would also prefer to deal with/answer the question of the simple wiki's true purpose. I modified this aspect heavily a while ago, when I first started editing it. Do you agree that It should be an international base? -- TTYL -- go raibh maith agat. - 戴&#30505sv 19:05, Aug 10, 2003 (UTC)

Octopus
Thanks for seconding my contribution and adding a link to itKRS
 * No problem. Angela

Wikimoney
Carol Shields Money well spent as I have battled to trace her maiden name. The link you posted does not work, but I believe you Tiles 05:29, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the welcoming, Rvalles 06:00, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Simple wikipedia
If you read my proposal of "SEnpl for fascile translation" (on simple.) that kinda runs over the idea. The idea is that language should only be a component of a page -- like a little langa:en tag somewhere on the doc -- that way all the pages are part of the same wiki and are "closer together."

But thats kinda separate just from using Simple as a kind of sandbox where the grammar rules are extremely lax -- if you read broken English, you can usually piece it together -- same goes for my broken Chinese and Arabic, etc -- why not run an experiment to see if one wiki can take the place of a lot of these smaller wikis -- when there is enough there we can farm the articles out. (will copy to general mailing list for more general discussion -- there is some interest there.) - 戴&#30505sv 07:04, Aug 11, 2003 (UTC)
 * I replied at Simple. Angela 13:03, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Psychopathology
Hello there,

Just an note to say thanks for adding yourself to the Psychopathology WikiProject ! I've just added a review page so if you create any new articles, or want to watch out for new ones, add to the list or keep tabs on this page.

Thanks again - Vaughan 19:31, 12 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Simple
Yep -- I replied at simple too. off to meta...- 戴&#30505sv 03:25, Aug 13, 2003 (UTC)

Temp5
Hiya, love your user page! BTW sorry for springing another vote on the Temp5 debate page but I've been watching this and earlier debates go on and on and on. . . and on, with edit wars, revertions, etc. We seem to be going around and around in circles so I thought it was about time the circus was put out to grass by clarifying what do we want and when do we want it. Two votes (on if and when we want a new page, and final approval for the new draft or drafts drawn up on the basis of what the community decides it actually wants) seems the most logical way to get a decision. Otherwise we'll be voting on temp after temp after temp all year, with each new page if approved challenged by another temp ad nausaum. Maybe this time we'll get off the starter blocks and actually take a series of steps with an outcome, rather than endless false starts that decide nothing. lol FearÉIREANN 15:31, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC)

It's not fair
Hi Angela,

How is the logo contest going to be fair if it is true that it is possible to vote multiple times? (!)

Thanks for the info,

RSVP

User talk:Tonius 22:28|2003.08.13

Simple
-Answer on simple -12.233.97.211 22:55, 13 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Preview button
Hi Angela,

I do use the preview button. It's that I use the sectioned off edit buttons that's lined along the entire right side of the long page when I'm logged in. I do this because it is easier for me to edit small sections a bit at a time then to use the edit button at the bottom of the entire page (displaying all the technical symbols with the text) to edit just one little section. I'm constantly researching new information and adding them to the timeline if you check the edit history. Also, I try to improve the phrasing, format, punctuation and misleading information. I admit that some edits were preview mistakes, but that fact accounts for a very small percentage of the time (see page history).

I know it looks like a lot but it's because I use the edit-section option running along the side.

Right now I'm on summer break from the University of Massachusetts Amherst (A Senior majoring in Linguistics & Psychology with an Honors GPA) and it's the first summer in a very long time that there's no work in my area. The recession has hit the United States pretty hard, especially in my area; This year has had the worst lay-off rate of workers since World War II, the worst unemployment in 20 years, the worst year for the 10-Year Bond, and the worst year in 5 years for the all the US stock markets.

Thus, I'm out of work and came up with the idea to research the history video games 2 weeks ago when I was listening to some video game music while reading my academic books.

This is how I ran into your fabulous website.

Sorry,

Tony

 * User talk:Tonius/Bio

Votes for deletion
Thanks for your note at the Village Pump: I appreciate the help! Jwrosenzweig 19:17, 14 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Redirects

 * Hi Angela,

 * I was wondering about your redirect of the Guided Missile Destroyers page. I'm putting together an article on the USS Gyatt, the first DDG, and am wondering if it will be affected by this redirect. Having recently started at Wikipedia, I have taken an interest in the U.S. Navy ships page and have been slowly adding to it, especially the destroyers as I served on four of them during my time in the fleet. StinKerr 00:38, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I was referring to this entry in the recent changes log: List of guided missile destroyers; 20:14. . Angela (only 1 in the list, so redirect)

Thanks for the link to Ships Project I'm looking at it and will use it for guidance, and thanks for your previous guidance. StinKerr 01:50, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Good idea
Good idea. go raibh maith agat.(?) -Steve
 * Tá fáilte romhat. Angela

Being nice to hyenas
Er, "stating views" with RK (ICYDK) is kinda like "just be nice to the hyena." Hes beyond unreasonable, and has been since the beginning. And yes its a load of nonsense, yes--Go to sleep--Pull the drapes shut--Avoid the Wikidrug for at least ten hours. Twelve if you can help it. :) - 戴&#30505sv 04:06, Aug 15, 2003 (UTC)

Then dinna be controversial - e'be tirin'. Suggestions -- Come up with some new internet slang - like ICYDK! Thatll keep you going for a couple hours. I'm going to go add some more WP:XX shortcuts to the Wikipedia pages. :) - 戴&#30505sv 04:23, Aug 15, 2003 (UTC)

172
What actions, Angela? What actions? You want to revoke my sysop status because I have been urging a ban on a user who posts crap like this: "Pat Robertson has recently felt hardship, for he knows he is losing the war against gay rights and his small penis. Pat Robertson has even been known to give $150,000 to a scam artist who told him he would sell him machines for $275 that would create perpetual motion, or endless power. Clearly not a scientist, Pat Robertson suffers from many diseases of the brain. He also has publically announced that he wishes that the 3 supreme court justices that are ill who voted for sodomy to be legalized to die. He is a sham and uses his position to accomplish vendettas of his own in the name of the christian populus. What a coward." 172 04:30, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC) - It isn't my problem? It's not a problem at all when these users seek to destroy articles like New Imperialism or Catholicism, right? A historian shouldn't care when these pages turn into garbage, right? BTW, why do sysops even have the right to protect pages if I was so out of line in protecting Catholicism from Nostrum's vandalism? Nostrum's only attacking me because I was the unfortunate sysop invited to protect Catholicism. Please, don't fall for the crap spewed by this user, who is only here to vandalize articles and divide legitimate users against each other. 172 04:54, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)

(After your comment on talk -172)
 * Ill agree that one shouldnt pump themselves to be a "top cop" --but I disagree with you rather pacifist assertion that 172 should just do nothing. Ive noticed that a few people (like RK) seem to get away with crap simply because people like to "avoid them" -- Granted that "one should not argue with a fool, or people wont be able to tell the difference" -- but the ignore it approach is too simplistic an answer.  Let me qualify that I'm speaking with next to no knowledge of the specifics -- Ive scanned Nostrums work and was not too impressed with it. What is the sanction specifically about?  A specific punishment for a specific offense --bad attitude alone is not a justification. - 戴&#30505sv 06:08, Aug 15, 2003 (UTC)

 * Agreed User:RK is a simple bully, who harasses all those who oppose his views on anything. Reverting everything he puts in a talk file would be a good start.  His article text isn't so bad, but he puts the text where it will make his political point, not where it belongs.  172 is also usually right, and doesn't seem to whine to authority much or at all, which is the primary requirement for a sysop.  Make whiners sysops, and soon the whole project goes right to hell. 142.177.71.11

I saw your comments on Sv's page. This was a great encouragement to me that we'll be able to put this dispute behind us and someday work cordially on an article if our pursuits on Wiki ever coincide. As JT was saying, my tough responses to vandalism have been generally effective. Just 18 hours ago or so I single-handedly averted the comeback of the hard-banned racist Zog (back as ZOG). He won't be filling up the mailing list and talk pages like last time and there will be no hours and hours of edit wars, like last time. That's because I reacted quickly when I noticed that he had exposed his IP, which I banned. Sometimes those who know the vandals best, and know best how to recognize them, are most adept at thwarting them. 172 22:49, 15 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * I hope so. Angela

 * As it is a great encouragement to all of us that you seem to actually be responsive now to the thoughtful opinions of your esteemed fellow Wikipedians.-S-

Main page
Angela, regarding alternative Main Pages, have you seen Main Page alternate and Main Page style? They are about meta-wikipedia but may be of some use to you in planning main pages for the wikipedia proper. - 戴&#30505sv
 * Thanks for the links. I'll wait till the results of the vote b4 doing anything though. Angela

Various

 * How long...? --- As long as is fair.
 * Do you intend...? --- Yes. It will be "fairness"
 * WTF?? --- I have my reasons. Give a tantrum child responsibility, and that child will grow into its new role.
 * 172: Ok... --- Well he seems to be rubbing people the wrong way -- instead of the right way :) --- If hes overly political, and messing with the fine line between op, and sysop --- there are punishments for that. As for practicality -- it seems our wise and much loved King is handling things personally -- personally I think this is a mistake and will say it to his face when I work up the courage. ;)
 * WP:WINAD -- Ill give you the same answer I gave to Steven Rubenstein about his critique of my habit of neologia-creatum (example) -- somebodys got to.
 * Allusion -- NBD :P
 * Advice: Ah. Good. So you.. um er, took...    Formeruser:Big Fat Buddha would have something better to say. :)  I'm glad you got some sleep, sometime -- otherwise you would, by emperical evidence, have to be on speed to keep this up -- (which I know is not true, because you make very few typos.)
 * Anyway, BNTTH -- :] Trust me.

Apology
I'm sorry about that episode. I thought that the summary of my comments was a parody. Most just archive talk, so I didn't realize that you summarize all comments. Online communication can be very difficult. 172 01:19, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Flower
It's nice to see that you are using the flower I gave you :). マイカル (MB) 01:24, Aug 16, 2003 (UTC)

172/ Nostrum
I'm not trying to change your mind here, just responding to what you said to 172 on his talk page. I would like to say that I know for a fact that Nostrum means no harm, and that the reason I got involved in the issue was becuase I felt 172 was treating newbies unfairly (he was treating Nostrum like a vandal, when all he needed was guidance.). I found out that 172 had a history of labeling people vandals, and scaring them off of wikipedia. I felt that this was reason enough for his sysop powers to be removed, becuase it upsets me to know he is representing wikipedia that way. Anyhow, I've said this a million times. Just wanted to let you know that this was never personal for me, and that I feel the 172 issue should not be dropped so quickly. マイカル (MB) 01:35, Aug 16, 2003 (UTC)

If you don't mind, could you try and help Nostrum out? I think you are right, someone other than me needs to help guide him, and hopefully his experience with 172 will have an overall positive affect. His major mistake was messing with the wring crowd :). マイカル (MB) 02:04, Aug 16, 2003 (UTC)

About interlanguage links
Interlanguage links don't have a "correct" place, as you stated in the Astronomy and astrophysics history page. See Interlanguage links. Cheers --AstroNomer 21:20, Aug 16, 2003 (UTC)

Massage
Well, now--that depends on who's asking, young lady. ") - 戴&#30505sv 21:31, Aug 16, 2003 (UTC)

Interlanguage links

 * Paraphrasing what you said,(apologies :) in a different context: {I disagree with creating stub articles which consist only of a couple paragraphs and I tend to delete such pages from the English Wikipedia. It wastes someone's time if they follow a link thinking they will get some useful information, only to find a unprofessional and incomplete article. It may be useful for those who want to add or contribute to these articles, but frustrating and confusing for those trying to read Wikipedia. Professional quality should be attained before not after the article is written.}

D'ye see me point m'Dear? - 戴&#30505sv 22:20, Aug 16, 2003 (UTC)

P.S -- I wrote back to Tarq on http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/intlwiki-l/2003-August/001999.html

不是! 不是! A stub can also contain useless information -- the point is not to generalize what stubs are and what they are good for. Some stubs are better than others. -- "IL links do not." 不是! 不是! If you look at an page with just a title and an IL link--and you cant read that language--just hover over the ILlink! Bingo. You can do it right now on the ar:wikipedia. Thats one situation (as unusual as it is) where what you said is not true. There are many more. Where in the rules does it say you cant put x in front of X? In fact in some ways its better that making a whole system and then trying to link them up in some way -- each should give the other ideas about how to structure stuff organization. Do you mind if I load this talk up to the mail? -S- P.s -- mail Walter to reset your password intlwiki-l-owner AT Wikipedia DOT org

IL links/usefulness - I respectfully disagree. TBC- 戴&#30505sv 22:55, Aug 16, 2003 (UTC)

RK as sysop
When comes back I want to nominate him for sysop (for real this time) I dont ask for much, but I ask that you support his nomination. Sincerely- 戴&#30505sv 22:55, Aug 16, 2003 (UTC)

Votes for deletion
When you list a page on Votes for deletion you must say "Listed on Votes for deletion" on the page you are listing. Otherwise the page will not get deleted. --mav 23:38, 16 Aug 2003 (UTC)

The note is to inform the person who created the article that their work is being considered for deletion. It is also there to inform any readers that the article is being considered for deletion. This; 1) gives proper warning the author so as to give them a chance to defend their work and 2) informs readers that the article has serious issues. --mav

Thanks
Belated thanks for your kind welcome. I appreciate your links to the naming conventions, style guidelines, and village pump. Wenteng 04:54, 17 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Tony Wilson
Your deletion of Tony Wilson was premature. Pages should be listed on Votes for deletion. Deletion policy sets out the seven categories of article which are exempt from listing on VfD, and as far as I can make out, Tony Wilson did not fit into any of them. If you would like to propose a change in the deletion policy, feel free to bring it up at Wikipedia talk:Deletion policy. Thanks. -- Oliver P. 19:16, 17 Aug 2003 (UTC)

User Page KRS
No, not for now. I got cold feet immediately after I got a user account when I came to know of easy vandalism:-)Then I picked up a little courage and thought I will retain it as long as there is no problem. Thank youKRS 02:03, 18 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Hi Angela-- Thanks for your welcome greeting. Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Jose Ramos 09:42, 19 Aug 2003 (UTC)

What qualifies for irrelevant info?
You removed some factual information from a page about a small town in Armenia. You stated that it was irrelevant in your summary; it was verifible historical information that I obtained from several independent sources. Am I to assume that any reference to the birthplace of a famous individual is an irrelevant entry? I am not aware of that policy, can you point me to the place were it says that birthplace information is irrelevant and should not be posted here. Please post your reply on my talk page, I will not be checking back here. Thank you. Alex756

Press runs, relevancy and the ODP
You mentioned on votes for delete that you had a press run of 600,000 for the last things you wrote. Personally I'd say that qualifies you for an article. Then again, I'm one of those "lax" Wikipedians when it comes to inclusion relevancy... So, when should I start your article? :)

Also, the Open Directory Project draft has gone live, the page is no longer protected, and I'm no longer the mediator (*whew*). Thanks for your contributions to it. -- Stephen Gilbert 07:25, 20 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Redirects and deletion notice
Hey, is this OK for the addition to Deletion_policy?
 * The does not apply to pages which a) have no content (such as Rediects), and b) also have no significant history. (E.g. a Redirect whose entire history is that it used to redirect from "Foo" to "Foobar", and has been changed to redirect to "FooBar", because the target page was moved, does not have any significant history.) A history which shows any content being added or removed is significant history.

Thanks! Noel 16:40, 20 Aug 2003 (UTC)~

 * Yah, I saw the typo after I hit the "save this page" button. A common failing of mine! :-) I will change the caps, and add the text. Thanks! Noel 17:01, 20 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * Sure, no problem with that reword. I was trying to much the same thing (I had originally used "requirement", and switched it to the softer "policy"). I figured I'd just say "policy" and then people would read it to be whatever the agreed-on policy was as the moment (if any :-), but your version is fine too. Noel 18:03, 20 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Akhenaten/Ahkhenaton
Thanks! The rename was the subject of discussion among both the Egypt specialists working on the Akhenaten page, and on VP before it happened; see the discussion on Talk:Akhenaten/rename. The links to "Akhenaten" were probably people who wanted to use the right one, but I'm checking them out. Noel 20:05, 20 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Preview button 2
Thanks, Angela, but I'm referring to changes being made to Sega Genesis and a couple other pages. If you see the page history and look it over, I hope you'll understand at once my concern/confusion. Thanks for the prompt response, though! Let me know if you have any thoughts about the situation I'm referring to. Jwrosenzweig 23:24, 20 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Angela. I agree that it's not a good idea to discuss a single user at the pump...I felt weird putting it there, and that's why I left it intentionally vague.  Hope I didn't violate the principles of WikiLove. :-)  I'll leave a note on his/her talk page, as you suggested.  Thanks! Jwrosenzweig 23:38, 20 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Pestering Brion
"Hopefully Simple will be moved to the new software soon, so that won't be a problem in the future. It's on Brion's to-do list. Angela" - Maybe you could pester him a bit ;) - 戴&#30505sv 23:35, Aug 20, 2003 (UTC)

I knew "pester" was the wrong word. These dont seem right either; :annoy, badger, be at, bedevil, beleaguer, bug, disturb, dog, drive crazy, fret, get at, get to, harass, harry, hassle, hector, hound, importune, insist, irk, mess with, nag, nudge, pick at, plague, provoke, ride, tantalize, tease, torment, work on, worry... Languages suck. - 戴&#30505sv 00:31, Aug 21, 2003 (UTC)

- 戴&#30505sv 00:31, Aug 21, 2003 (UTC)

If we manually move pages over to the new system now, then it's going to make conversion more difficult overall: a list of renamed pages will need to be kept so that the page edit histories can be re-imported later. If I'm going to have to do that much work, I'd really rather just have the full conversion done and over with, and be rid of the old system for all languages at once. --Brion 01:14, 21 Aug 2003 (UTC)

The current deletion craze etc.
Hello again Angela,

As you would like answers to your questions, here they are: I did write a note to jimfbleak even before the two of us had our little talk last night. The sheer speed at which the Votes for deletion page has been growing recently makes me dizzy. Sometimes it seems to me Wikipedia has been taken over by a bunch of newbies who have no idea about what some have called WikiLove and who, for some obscure reason, are trying to reduce it to a bare minimum, without any option for expansion. I called them "quick deleters", and I'm sorry that it was you I singled out to have that discussion with. You made it clear you did not want to delete Interim. But removing or transferring it to Wiktionary is also reducing the scope of Wikipedia.

Whenever I have a look at VfD these days I'm horrified. Pages that in the past would have gone unnoticed or been improved on the spot by some other user (according to the old policy, "If you don't like it, change it") are now listed on VfD only minutes after they have been posted, or a notice saying The neutrality of this page is disputed is dumped on the page, with some flimsy explanation on the corresponding talk page (like a couple of hours ago at Point of no return). And what is supposed to happen then? I could use the "Random page" function and do the one or the other with every other page I get, but why should I?

As I already tried to point out, so many people have left (are leaving) Wikipedia, but their departure also goes unnoticed. I don't think it's a good idea that there are some Wikipedians who hardly ever write articles themselves and who believe it is their job to assess their peers' work only. (To me that's just like the head teacher in a school who does not teach himself any more or the plumber who does not want to get his hands dirty any longer.) I consider such a system (even if the hierarchy is informal and implicit) imbalanced. (But this is nothing to do with you personally.)

Thanks for the advice concerning the Simple English Wikipedia. I'll have a look at it, but I don't want to have my fingers in too many pies and, well, I'm not under stress -- I'm worried. --KF 14:47, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Cymraeg
Thanks--I usually dont bother putting anything new on meta, as its a sort of a wasteland, unless things are really well linked to--speaking of the meta--I was thinking maybe (as if you dont juggle too many things already) youd be the one to finish localizing the LanguageCy.php file-- in case it hadnt o'curred t'you. - 戴&#30505sv 22:47, Aug 22, 2003 (UTC)

Dydw i dim dy difalch gwas?- 戴&#30505sv 23:10, Aug 22, 2003 (UTC)

Griego

 * Hay solamente una lengua
 * que no pueda hablar
 * y simplemente al estado mi simplicidad
 * yo simplemente lo nombrará "Griego" - 戴&#30505sv</Strong> 23:46, Aug 22, 2003 (UTC)

re:welcome
Hello Angela, Thank you for the welcome and encouragement. I just discovered Wikipedia a couple of days ago, I am realy amazed. -Steve

Wikimedia donation addresses
Angela, I agree with you regarding the protection of the donations page and to that end I have started a page donation addresses. Can't that page be protected and the donations page be left to editors? It seems to me that the donation page could use a lot of editing; there is lots of stuff on it that needs updating; I see no reason to prevent it from being edited. Alex756 15:59, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Simple English Stuff
Angela,

Thanks for the welcome you gave me @ the simple wiki. If you need help, feel free to contact me using the contacts on my EN user page

hoshie

I have CCed this to the simple wiki.

Merci
Merci Angela :-) Anthère

Software Engineering
What happened with your studies in Software Engineering? Not what you expected? { MB | マイカル } 03:45, Aug 25, 2003 (UTC)

Tonius' Quotes
Hi Angela,

I just noticed your message. Perhaps in the future I'll add some to WikiQuotes. Currently, I'm working on a new project using the quotes that I like.

I noticed that many of the greats have been quoted about many of the same issues, saying almost the same things, yet with minor twists or extra points. Thus, yesterday I started to rearrange them into a sequence whereby the list now seems to be a conversation among the greats, in which each supports or refutes a point that the previous has stated.

My intention is to arrange a philosophical discussion among the greats that I discern as highly ingenious; a talk which crosses the historical limits of their deaths, and designed similarly as an internet chatroom or message bulletin.

Check out the webpage now, I've added many new quotes and sorted them out as much as I could so far: User:Tonius/Quotes

Thanks for the comment Angela,

Tonius

Viajero
I really doubt it now, despite the similar interests. The writing styles on the users pages are totally different. Even if he were an old user, User:Viajero has never been disruptive and has become one of the site's best and most active contributors in a very short period of time. Please take a look at Viajero's contributions and second my nomination. 172 17:10, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)

--- I'm a little busy now, but when I'm ready I'll gather up enough evidence to ease your concerns. The writing styles are way too different. And also keep in mind that admin status can be revoked in a matter of minutes. 172 17:18, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for nominations
Thanks for the nomination. Sorry to see you've burned out - take a break for a while, and maybe you'll feel like coming back? I hope so.... Noel 23:47, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Thanks for thirding my nomination. (Is thirding a word? Probably not!) You are a dedicated Wikipedian and I hope you'll be back. ;-( — Alex756

I quit
What happened to your userpage? You now show up in red!?! -- Viajero 20:15, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * I quit. I might change my mind. I do that a lot. It's undeletable when I do. Angela

 * Yikes, for good? Please stick around! At least until edit no. 2000!!!... -- Viajero 20:24, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * Passed that a while ago. 2581 last time I checked. I shouldn't be talking here if I have quit. Angela

 * No, I guess not, not if you've quit. Maybe you haven't really. Or have you? Never mind. Have a good evening, wherever you are! -- Viajero 20:43, 25 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * You are under 2000 in french. Do you know anything about aumism ?
 * Nope. Angela

I hope you decide to stick around -- you've always been a voice of sanity around here. Maybe you just need a break? The constant flamewars can be a bit exhausting sometimes.—Eloquence 20:54, Aug 25, 2003 (UTC)
 * I have? Thank you. Unfortunately, one voice of sanity is not enough when everyone else is mad. Angela
 * Who is mad, I'll kill em ;). { MB | マイカル } 21:19, Aug 25, 2003 (UTC)

Angela! I welcomed you on February 20, 2003, and I'd like to welcome you to the madhouse again. This is not how you were supposed to interpret my earlier remark that more and more people would be leaving. --KF 00:29, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Or have I?
Thank you all for your kind words. It's very difficult to stay away and I can't quite decide whether I want to or not. Perhaps I shouldn't let the vandals get to me - they have 'won' if I do. Maybe I just need to accept that some people are idiots and that their being here doesn't mean that I shouldn't be. Perhaps it's even more of a reason to stay? I'm still undecided. Angela

Banned user sysops?
"Unfortunately, one voice of sanity is not enough when everyone else is mad." Not enough? I say it's one too many. I say you should go mad yourself. Join the party. I noticed your recent edit to Bans and blocks, by the way. Has a banned user really been nominated for sysop staus? -- Oliver P. 17:57, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Hmm? Which banned user are we talking about here? This is all very confusing... By the way, I should point out that leaving Wikipedia is a sure sign of madness, because it's such a great project. So if you want to be perceived as sane, you can never leave... ;) -- Oliver P. 19:06, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * Impeccable Vulcan logics. --Menchi 20:04, Aug 26, 2003 (UTC)

Thanks! I've sent you a reply... -- Oliver P. 19:56, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)

One vandal-admin? One imperfection! Two vice? Two imperf! But the wonders of Wiki will always overwhelm its imperfection. [to paraphrase Mr. Spock] Always! ALWAYS!!! [To quote our insane selves] --Menchi 20:04, Aug 26, 2003 (UTC)

Missing?
Missing Wikipedians - 戴&#30505sv</Strong> 00:18, Aug 27, 2003 (UTC)

Yes; I know of this list. I have considered several times putting me on it. But I have a safety valve. When I am really mad at the french, I come here. When I am mad at the english, I go to the french. When I am really unhappy about both places, I go on meta. Usually, that helps. And each time I get slightly different. Right now, I am over there. Have a couple of ones who I miss. But that does not mean they are entirely gone. Just not very much there. Unfortunately. As I said, I miss kq, and the cunctator, I don't see much of Quercus, so little happen on the topics I like. On the french wiki, I terribly miss Alvaro. I am also worried, because he left all of a sudden 6 weeks ago. Too long for holidays I think. I know that he likes boats, so perhaps he is just having a long time on one. But I also know he already had an heart attack, and his mail has been bouncing back on the french mailing back for being too full. So, leaving is fine but...

Anyway, I am terribly sentimental about people I appreciate :-)

Nod. Thanks. I'll be back when I feel more secure and when the french wiki will need me less. I think there is a current trend (agressivity toward newbies, libel, insults, hate speech, npov liberal interpretation, censorship, call for ban), that does :-) Take a good breath of the WikiLove flower above :-)

A case of mistaken identity?
Ok, I suppose that doesn’t prove anything in reality but that along with comments I have received from other Wikipedians I respect has led me to undelete my user page which was done after thinking I had been stupid nominating a potentially hard-banned user. I wasn’t very good at staying away anyway. Viajero, I really hope you’re not Lir and that 172 and Oliver have got it right about you. Good luck with your adminship when you get it. Angela

 * glad of the undeletion. But I read "potentially" hard banned, not hard banned. Ant

 * Ahh - I was wondering why you'd deleted yourself. And without listing on votes for deletion, either. Tut-tut-tut. ;-) Martin 12:36, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Don't delete it
Hi Angela. I thank you for your suggestions. I am a newcomer to Wikipedia & I have made several dumb mistakes which will not be repeated. If I may be so bold as to ask for a favor, it would be for your assistance in stopping the deletion of the pages that I have created. If you decide against it, I still wish to thank you for your consideration.user:kkawohl

 * Kurt, read List of central issues and then bug the editors. EofT

---

Ban RK
Angela, reverting RK's ban page to blank it is a serious mistake. Not only are you favouring a "squeaky wheel" (blanking his renamed ban page while every other /ban page remains in place), but, you are sending him a signal to continue, as his propaganda techniques are working. You have fallen for a rather obvious trick: he accepts a measure for a limited time, then after protests that it is not harsh enough die down, he begins agitating against that measure, arguing that it is unique and therefore he has been "singled out" - whereas in fact he has got a special favour, which is, to have his record moved to a less obvious place. It is revolting in the extreme to watch otherwise intelligent people fall for trick which come straight from the Provocateur's Handbook. You must get over your feelings about /ban pages and at least recognize that the same policy must be applied to all of them at once, and that RK may set a precedent, but he may not be allowed to gain special favours for himself by such means as he uses. EofT

This is not a schoolyard. Literally the whole planet can read what is posted here. Because of the inordinate, indeed insane, Soviet-like process User:Jimbo_Wales wants to apply (secret letters to himself no less, straight out of Stalinism), this has become dragged out the point where a lot of RK's behaviour is more than obvious. The commentary on this has been painstakingly centralized so that decisions taken on his "case" can be fair. But you wish to let him hide all that and simply continue on as he has, with a clean and invisible record, so that others can give him leeway and find the same treatment being applied to them again. You are literally erasing the memory of Wikipedia, by which it can come to grips with this kind of gross infection. EofT

Perhaps you should read Nineteen Eighty-Four again. EofT

 * Wow, it certainly didn't take you long to get back into the heat of things Angela. If you want to stay sane, I suggest you stay clear of controversial things for a little while.  It helps, trust me.  { MB | マイカル } 19:20, Aug 27, 2003 (UTC)

 * Angela, I request you help with List_of_central_issues, especially if you are concerned about me leaving. Whatever I have left to offer Wikipedia, it's probably contained in my contributions to/about that stuff.  The rest is details.  If I am banned for standing up for an open transparent process versus petty propaganda, mindless advocacy and equally absurd Virtual Stalinism, that is hardly uncommon in the history of politics, and perhaps par for the course here.  But to have you depart also without making some attempt to redefine, from a serious editorial and publisher perspective, what makes this mass of text acceptable as an encyclopedia, would be the true tragedy.  We were here working together "for a reason", and, I think that reason must not be abandoned.  Warmest regards from the pits of soon-to-be-banned-Hell, your friend EofT

Thanks for sticking up for me
Angela, thank you for pointing out to 172 that my comment regarding Saddam Hussein was tongue-in-check; I guess I have more of an English sense of humour than I thought; perhaps that comes from being a loyal subject of Her Majesty, eh? Alex756 20:22, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * No problem. Angela

Regarding the comment about 172 as SH, I think he is fair game for this kind of joshing too, but I am not going to add it back, anyone can check the page history to see what I say, I am not trying to impose my personal opinion on anyone else. But after all SH's history shows an otherwise inoffensive copyeditor (though some of his edits are inappropriate as I was pointing out) so suggesting that SH and 172 are the same should not really be insulting to 172? I think this all shows that using the name of dictators as user names should not be tolerated as it is being tolerated with the SH case. Alex756 21:02, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * In my own defence you will note that I say earlier in the post that I will not call that user by the dictator's name but by user:SH — that is the name I suggested for him earlier in my posting, if his real name is the same as the evil dictator, then at least he gets to use his initials. I think that is a reasonable compromise. So at the end I was saying that maybe SH is 172, not that 172 is an evil dictator. Geeze sometimes everyone in this place seems like they are walking on pins and needles, I can see why you were thinking of leaving Wikipedia, people can get so upset at times. Alex756 21:25, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Wikipediholic?
Hi Angela. You do realise, you just sliped seven points further into Wikipediholicism (Q53) ;) -- sannse 20:52, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Oh damn, that means I got seven more points too. Buts thats Ok, I got 200 points for the question that cannot be asked on the Wikipeidholic test. Otherwise, how was the vacation? ;) - 戴&#30505sv</Strong> 21:10, Aug 27, 2003 (UTC)

Database Queries
Oh. Now I got it. (after a couple minutes of "huh?" %\ No, I saw your page blanked after a couple of days of being mostly gone, and I thought -- hm? what might have provoked her to leave? Maybe the EofT/RK thing blew up too big? Maybe... etc. etc... Since no more user:angela, i thought, maybe check the delete page, and then took a look at db query page, and maybe dig up on 'the edit war that caused you to so abruptly leave.' :) - 戴&#30505sv</Strong> 00:09, Aug 28, 2003 (UTC)

不是.坏询问。- 戴&#30505sv</Strong> 00:18, Aug 28, 2003 (UTC) ps. 您怎么知道?感谢, 英国-生的甜妇女。

Thanks for your message, the first message I got around here!
Hi Angela,

I'm Wikibi. Thanks a lot for your message. I'm new here and need time to find my way around the web pages. As a matter of fact, I don't think I did anything wrong uploading my images yesterday. I followed all the instructions on the page and used the "Upload file" button above the "Special pages" button. Anyway, I can't find the images now. Is there a way that I can make up for it? Since I've already made them, I'd like to at least show these logos to some Wikipedians. My sort of way "to be accepted" as a new comer. I don't want to be imposing, but if you are interested, I'd like to show them to you. Thanks.

Wikibi

the ethics of trolls
Trolls request your review of ethics, as you have recently had ethical disputes with trolls. This article is the only possible troll bridge for the truly impossible disputes, as its page history demonstrates.

If it can be simplified somewhat, and a fair division with simple view of ethics and morals (which is trying to be practical not comprehensive and take sort of a "villager's view") agreed, you can then write one in Simple English to complement what is there already on Religion, Politics, Law, Philosophy, Principle, etc. Maybe you can do that first, and then based on what's essential there, we can improve the others?

Now, we are off to gnaw and nibble at the lowest roots of the Tree of Knowledge, and perhaps find a few tasty grubs and worms thereby. Yum! neh neh neh...

Logo vote
thanks. You were the first to five us the info ! (and time is short) Anthère

Thanks from Thoth
Thanks for that message, I have since read up and changed another page I edited incorrectly. Thoth

Thanks again ;) Thoth 01:44, Aug 29, 2003 (UTC)
 * No problem. Angela

Deleting pages with copyright vios and problem w/history pages
Angela, I don't know if you have seen Wikipedia talk:Votes for deletion/copyvio. Martin has suggested adding something to the VfD/copyvio page and our discussion regarding copyright infringement on history pages came up. I just thought that maybe there should be something that discourages people from removing the copyvios and then rewriting the page. If it was clearly stated that new page with violations had to be deleted and then restarted this might prevent and be a better way to prevent copyrighted material from sneaking into the page histories (with new pages at least). Still does not really solve the problem with someone who adds stuff later, though. Also I've started a to do list and requests list on Wikipedia (not just in my head) thanks for reminding me. Alex756

Missing something in the translation?
No. Systransoft.com was buggin or something. -Faker SV

Actually, yeah, I just realized that. I think I'm going to remove it, just so I don't forget anymore.

Refactoring
Signing other people's comments is entirely reasonable - I do it regularly for Anthere, people have done it for me, and I've done it for 142.177.etc before now, without objection. I don't think it's at all controversial - yours is the very first revertion I've had. So I reinstated. Martin

 * yup, that is ok to me :-) (anthere)

Thanks! (Ryerson edit)
Yep, that was exactly what I had in mind. Thank you for the fix and the welcome! Fourprint 03:53, 30 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Ethics
Hello. I do not know if EoT is banned right now. I saw you edited the talk page after RK had removed all EoT comments and answer. I think it is not standard practice to remove other people comments unless they are hardbanned. Even when it is the case, I certainly think it would be wise to remove libels and insults from comments from hard banned users (just as regular users btw), but in this case, the comments removed had no destructive goals, but suggested options. I think it real bad to let these comments be removed, be the author banned or not banned. It is just basic politness to allow the different editors in a dispute to express themselves (I also will had that the different editors are rather polite to each other) and it is other neutral editors in the debate to state so. I didnot like doing it, but I think it had to be. If EoT has been banned this night, it should be noted in the ethics article. Thanks :-) Anthère

It is very early here as well, nearly 7, but I got to bed very early, and woke up with nightmares :-( I felt more like a deep black pit, so I am glad some see me as a lamp :-). I am an oil paper lamp. If EoT is not banned, then the comments sure had to be restored. Cheers and don't forget to sleep to fill up the lamp. Anthère

Welcoming Newbies at fr:
Yes, we have one at or Wikipédia:Message de bienvenue.

I intend to start sending the promotion release in about a week (Mav sait we could expect the 300 000 articles around the 8th of sept. I know I will have quite a bit of work around that time (I have a deadline at work around the 10-15th), so probably I won't be there much. These past weeks, several users have been quite rude to newbies, some newbies have even left clearly stating it was the reason they were leaving. Several have mentionned the fact they did not feel welcome in the past weeks (of couuuuurse, I was not there :-)))) in truth, I am not always very nice to newbies myself, but I try to take care of some sometimes) and had a hard time. And one of our best welcomer apparently left us (you know, the heart guy). I fear a bit what will happen when the press release occur. If you can help at that moment, that will be very greatly appreciated :-) Anthère

Deletions
It is perfectly fine to have the Swedish/Noweigian names redirect to the English names. Please dont delete those! --Jiang 01:17, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Vandalism
Please stop vandalising other peoples' work. Heine --- Please read: "Admins should not protect pages when they have been involved in the edit war in question (either by actively editing the page or by expressing strong opinions on the talk page). Admin powers are not editor privileges". Heine
 * Please stop deleting my comments. Talk goes the end of a page, not the start by the way. Angela 02:25, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * Good point. I think this may be an exception to the rule. Angela 03:11, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I am not involved in any edit wars with you. I'm merely reverting your vandalism and protecting the pages you insist on vandalizing. RickK 03:14, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * I think he meant I shouldn't have protected my user page. Angela 03:15, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * I think he meant the pages that you protected to keep him from vandalizing them. RickK 03:26, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)
 * I hadn't edited those before I protected them anyway. Angela 03:31, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Everything under control? - Er, Im about done here myself - its late -- almost 9pm here! User:Stevertigo 03:24, Aug 31, 2003 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me wade into the Heine user-page festival. It feels like a small version of the Village Pump, what with everyone and their cousins contributing. I was uncomfortable with a statement of how an editor intended to deal with a user ("revert on sight") posted to their user page, and not their talk page. If there's one page a user should be able to edit, it's their own user page. --Zippy 06:42, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Cars redirect
I disagree with you on the car thing, but only in principle, not as an issue that I have to have my way with. If the justification for having it is frequency of use, I don't think that cars is used more frequently than car, or if it is, it doesn't warrant an additional entry. Take the example of crayons used on the pluralization page. We wouldn't have an entry for crayons with an 'S', though I bet it's used just as often as crayon without an 'S'. And as for reading the guideline pages, I DID read them very carefully before I submitted to the VfD. - TravelingDude 18:31, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Ethics
Angela, check out the new proposal at Talk:Ethics; this looks like it should fix things. Your thoughts? RK 22:15, 31 Aug 2003 (UTC)~

Database download
The links tables are not in the download dumps. They're only about 4 MB uncompressed, so it might be a good idea to put them in -- perhaps you or I should have a word to Brion. They can be reconstructed from the cur table, if you have a working copy of the PHP script. You just run rebuildlinks.php, I think. If you don't have it, it's probably more trouble than it's worth to download it and get it working. Especially if you're running Windows. You'll just have to search the text for " .... ".

I'll tell you what, I'll see if I can make a link table dump myself. Give me a day or two. -- Tim Starling 01:14, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Whoa, hang on. They aren't 4 MB uncompressed, they're more like 300 MB. I must have been reading the wrong row or something. But cur is 770 MB and that gets packed down to 100MB, so if we get a similar ratio here it should still be pretty reasonable -- say 50MB. Would that still be worth downloading, or should we find another way? -- Tim Starling 03:00, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Okay, try this. It came to merely 20 MB when compressed with gzip. -- Tim Starling 15:07, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Simple English Article Review?
Angela,

If you don't mind, can you look over these articles I've written @ the Simple Wiki to make sure they are good Simple articles?

They are:

 * Alanis Morissette
 * Web Browser

I just wanted to be sure I am on the right track before I write more. Feel free to reply here or at the simple wiki!

Thanks!

hoshie

 * Thanks for your help! hoshie 15:11, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Avoiding duplicate articles
Hi Noel, congrats on the adminship!

Thanks! And thanks for nominating me!

What are the redirects you are creating for?

To prevent what happened with ITS, where someone created a new article under Incompatible Timesharing System because they didn't know there was already an article on it under ITS.

The Stanford_Artificial_Intelligence_Lab is a broken redirect

Only because I hadn't installed the new page yet. It works now.

I'm not sure Prevent duplicate article creation is very useful. It's easy enough to merge the articles if this does occur.

Yes, but it would be nice to avoid that happening - and also avoid the chance of people fixng it incorrectly (as with the person who made ITS a disambig page).

Redirects show up in the search, and there has been complaint about this being annoying (see the Atlas Shrugged redirects for an example)

Hmm. Well, that's a good point. I have tried to create only the most obvious redirects, ones that might quite likely actually get typed, but still... I'll go check out that discussion. Noel 00:46, 3 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for the welcome!

~Gryon
 * No problem Gryon. I hope you like it here. Angela

Amazed by your speed
Umm. Angela. Thanks for the help with Controversies regarding the origin of The Book of Mormon. I signed up for a user name. I appreciate your patience, and I am amazed by your speed.

title: User talk:Angela/Archive1