text:
Talk:Discrete probability distribution

Moved from the article:
 * ...its range consists entirely of point-masses. Let X be a random variable; then a "point-mass" in the range of X is a value x such that $$P(X>x)$$.  If the sum of all such point-masses is 1, then X is a discrete random variable.

Definition of point-mass is not clear. Is a point mass a probability or a value in the range of X? AxelBoldt 06:40 Jan 9, 2003 (UTC)

Problems with the math websites
These math pages are basically worthless. If you don't know the math already, you can't understand the pages. For example, in order to understand the page on probability mass distributions, you have to know the meaning of discrete number. The discrete variable uses the probability mass distribution in the definition. It's all very circular. The page discribing how to use the capital sigma notation is likewise confusing. Are these pages here to teach people who don't know about these concepts or just to fill up space? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.107.90.170 (talk) 18:01, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Hear hear. This is rapidly becoming a real problem with Wikipedia. Increasingly the technical articles seem to be written by mathematicians for mathematicians. How about ordinary folk? This is supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a bloody maths textbook! Keep it simple, stoopid!

--84.9.73.211 (talk) 18:23, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

So true! I was hoping to get a quick definition for my stats exam tomorrow, and I get a page of big math words that mean bloody well nothing to me. Fine, keep the confusing math definition for all the scientists and mathematicians who understand what it means, and who want to make sure they have a full grasp on it. But why can't there be a definition in plain English??? I'd write it, except, thanks to the bloody uselessness of this page, I have no idea still what a discrete random variable is... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.70.219.214 (talk) 06:35, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect definition?
What is the actual definition of DRV. Is it the discrete probability dist or is it the following:

''If a random variable is discrete then the set of all possible values that it can assume is finite or countably infinite, because the sum of uncountably many positive real numbers (which is the smallest upper bound of the set of all finite partial sums) always diverges to infinity. '' --Light current 04:56, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Good points. I find this article unnecessarily complicated and partially incomprihensible.

 * I also believe that the definition is actually incorrect. It says that a random variable is discrete if

 * $$\sum_u \Pr(X=u) = 1$$

 * as u runs through the set of all possible values of the random variable X.

 * This does not preclude the random variable having a continuous part, for example, the random variable

 * f(x) = 8 for x in [-4, -3]
 * f(x) =x otherwise

 * seems to satisfy this "sum" definition, as in the sum above one has a 1 for u=8 and zeros ohterwise. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 00:20, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

Oleg, I find your remarks incredibly confused. What random variable are you referring to when you write your piecewise definition above?? I can't figure it out, and I'm pretty good at understanding such things. I can't see anything in your piecewise definition that suggests something satisfying the "sum" definition, nor anything that defines or characterizes any particular random variable. "Discrete random variable" is conventionally understood to mean a random variable with a discrete probability distribution, and the definition you cut is correct. Michael Hardy 02:46, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

It looks as if when you wrote "1 for u=8 and zeros ohterwise", you probably meant the Lebesgue measure of the inverse-image under the piecewise-defined function f that you specified. But you haven't defined any random variable, nor any probability distribution, nor any discrete or continuous or other random variable. The probability distribution that assigns measure 1 to the set {8} and 0 to sets disjoint from that set, is a discrete distribution. Any random variable X having that distribution satisfies Pr(X = 8) = 1 and Pr(X = x) = 0 for x = anything except 8. So it's not a counterexample to the statement you called incorrect. Michael Hardy 02:53, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I meant the random variable to be f. What I forgot about is a probability measure. Let us have the real line with the probability of a set being the Lebesgue measure of that set intersected with [-4, -3]. What I missed is that its complement is negligeable, so it does not matter what values the random variable has in there. So you are right. However, the defintion is still misleading, it should say that in addition to the countable number of values, the random variable can have some other values, but the set of all points on which it takes those values can have measure zero. No? Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 04:03, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

NO! You're still confused. Continuity, or its lack, of the random variable as a function on a probability space has absolutely nothing to do with it. In particular, the DISTRIBUTION OF the random variable you describe is continuous EVERYWHERE, NOT JUST almost everywhere.

Admittedly, the explanation on the page is skimpy. I'll get to it some time soon, I think. Michael Hardy 02:07, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Who says continuity? Not me. Let us take it step by step.

 * 1. Consider the real numbers, with the probability measure:

 * $$P(A)=m(A\cap [-4, -3])$$

 * where m is the Lebesgue measure. This is a probability space, isn't it?

 * 2. Consider the function X:R->R, defined by X(t)=1 if t in [-4, -3], and X(t)=t otherwise. This is a random variable (a measurable function). Correct?

 * 3. This function satisfies

 * $$\sum_u \Pr(X=u) = 1$$

 * as u runs through the set of all possible values of the random variable X. Correct or not?

 * 4. The set of all possible values of this function is not countable. Do you agree with this?

 * 5. This function X nevertheless coicides almost everywhere with the indicator function of the interval [-4, -3], which is a discrete variable. Correct or not correct? Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 02:17, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

 * It seems to me that statement 3 above is incorrect. In your example you defined a continuous stochastic variable. Statement 3 is a sum, therefor of a countable number of terms. As you have taken a continuous stoch. var., all $$\Pr(X=u)$$ are zero. For instance $$\Pr(X=-3.1)=0$$ despite the fact that the PDF is not equal to zero for $$X=-3.1$$. Bob.v.R 23:15, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

 * No, "sum" does not mean a countable number of terms, and that fact is explained in the article. But how should one construe "possible values"?  From one simple and plausible point of view there is only one possible value of this random variable. Michael Hardy 23:56, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Right Michael, the issue of what is a "value" for a random variable is a big question. You are right that this random variable has only the value 1 on [-4, -3]. It does not matter what values it takes outside this interval, as the outside has measure zero. However, how to explain that well in the article. And I hope you do agree with me that the function I provided has as range the set of all real numbers except for some interval. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 00:00, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

 * The ´value´ that a random variable assumes is a number for which there is a certain probability of occurrence. The value is not the probability itself!! For the stoch. var. in Oleg´s example the important values of ´u´ are between -4 and -3; so these values are relevant when ´u´ is running through the set of possible values. And this case, because Oleg has chosen a continuous stochastic variable, we have that $$\Pr(X=u)=0$$ for every individual value ´u´. Bob.v.R 11:54, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Oleg, I agree with the obvious parts of what you say and disagree with your main point. The points you raise have no place in this article, as will be seen as soon as you realize that the article title is incorrect; it needs to get moved. I'll do that right away. Michael Hardy 20:08, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

... and now I've made Oleg's objection irrelevant by moving the page. Michael Hardy 20:16, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Now I am happy. Two random variables which coincide almost everywhere have the same probability distribution, and the thing I defined above clearly has a discrete probability distribution. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 20:33, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Alternative
Would it be a valid alternative definition to say that "a discrete random variable is a random variable whose cumulative distribution function increases only by jump discontinuities"? If not, would it be sensible to include it as a slightly more intuitive but less rigorous description, marked as such? The current page may be strictly mathematically correct, but it is hard to decipher if you are just someone who has, say, a working knowledge of calculus but no in-depth knowledge of analysis, indicator functions, all this other stuff that is referenced. 81.159.124.90 00:05, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
 * What you are say is correct, from what I can tell. But please notice that those bumps can be a dense set (the set of rational numbers for example). I think a function which is piecewise constant, increasing, and having bumps all over the place is enough to give everybody a headache. Wonder what others think. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 02:14, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Since no-one has made any objections to this addition, I will implement it. -Hammerite

What happened to the discrete uniform distribution?
The list of common discrete distributions fails to mention the Uniform distribution (discrete) distribution. Is there a reason for this, or just an oversight. Dale Gerdemann 15:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Revert
Hi Oleg, thanks for respectfully reverting and being careful enough to preserve some of my changes :) I read your earlier comment "I find this article unnecessarily complicated and partially incomprehensible." and was wondering whether you still feel that way?  Does this article offer anything that is not offered at probability distribution? MisterSheik 20:09, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I think this article has been edited for better since my earlier ranting. It is still not satisfactory enough, but I feel that this article has the potential to grow, and the concept of discrete probability distribution is important enough to have its own article.

 * To answer your question, the bigger probability distribution article is missing the section titled "Representation in terms of indicator functions" from this article, for example. Comments? Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 02:19, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Honestly, I think that the indicator function definition is much less accessible than the "is characterized by a pmf" definition. :( Would you honestly read it if you knew nothing about the topic, or if you knew something about the topic, or if you were an expert on the topic?  MisterSheik 14:01, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That's why it is at the bottom, because it is harder than the others. :) But it makes a good point that a random variable is discrete if and only if it is a combination of indicator functions. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 01:52, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Making it more definable to us younger people using this as a reference, which is still better than MathWorld's "A discrete probability distribuion is a probability distribution that is discrete."
I think that making a simple kind of example to help define it would help. I, as an eighth grade mathematician, would like to offer one myself. "Basically, to be a discrete probability distribution, it uses values like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5... rather than real numbers. In a geometric distribution, for example, you wouldn't have p(1-p)^(3/2); you would have p(1-p)^n where n is an integer. However, this example should not imply that all discrete distributions use 1, 2, 3, 4, 5...

Heero Kirashami 02:25, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Riemann–Stieltjes integral
Is the following is true?

 * $$\operatorname{P}(X \in A) = \int_A^\ \, \mathrm{d} \operatorname{P}(X \le x)$$

Then how about A=[a,a]? Is the Riemann–Stieltjes integral well defined in this case?Nick C. (talk) 06:08, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:Discrete probability distribution


text:
Jerry Jones

Jerral Wayne Jones Sr. (born October 13, 1942) is an American businessman and the owner, president, and general manager of the Dallas Cowboys of the National Football League (NFL). He bought the team from Bum Bright in 1989.

He was born in Los Angeles, California, and moved to North Little Rock, Arkansas, in 1945. His parents owned Pat's Super Market. Jones was a running back at North Little Rock High School, graduating in 1960. Afterward, his family moved to Springfield, Missouri, where his father led a successful insurance company. Jones attended the University of Arkansas, co-captaining the 1964 national championship football team. Following graduation, he became an executive vice president at his family's insurance company. After selling it, the Joneses established Buena Vista Animal Paradise.

In 1989, Jones purchased the Dallas Cowboys for $140 million, and swiftly replaced Tom Landry with Jimmy Johnson as the head coach. Under Jones, the team achieved success, winning Super Bowl XXVII, XXVIII, and XXX. Jones stands out as an NFL owner with a successful football player background. Despite initial criticism for firing beloved personnel, Jones' leadership elevated the franchise's value to an estimated $5.5 billion. He played a pivotal role in securing lucrative TV deals, contributing to the NFL's financial prosperity. Criticized for his high visibility and controversial decisions, Jones, as both owner and general manager, he remains a polarizing figure among fans. Notably, he mended relations with Jimmy Johnson in 2023, inducting him into the Cowboys Ring of Honor. Jones also influenced team relocations and faced fines from the NFL for public comments on officiating and labor issues.

He earned the 2014 NFL Executive of the Year award. Inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 2017, he also won the 1964 college football championship with the Arkansas Razorbacks. Jones, a recipient of various honors, holds a net worth of $8.5 billion, mainly from his Cowboys ownership. In March 2022, legal action was taken against him by a woman claiming to be his biological daughter. Jones has a family, with his son Stephen holding a key role in the Cowboys organization. In November 2022, a photo from 1957 emerged showing Jones witnessing racial tensions during school integration in Arkansas, leading him to express regret for not doing more to support Black students.

Early life
Jones was born in Los Angeles, California, to John "Pat" and Arminta Jones. The family moved back to North Little Rock, Arkansas, in 1945. His parents owned two branches of Pat's Super Market in the Rose City neighborhood of North Little Rock. Jones was a running back at North Little Rock High School, graduating in 1960.

After his graduation, Jones' parents moved to Springfield, Missouri, where Pat was president and chairman of Modern Security Life Insurance Co. The company, which an advertisement billed as a "one in a million" company, saw its assets increase from $440,299.76 in its first statement in 1961 to $6,230,607 in 1965. After graduating from the University of Arkansas, Jerral W. Jones was listed as an executive vice president. With the success of the company, the Joneses assembled the 5500 acre Buena Vista Ranch east of Springfield in Rogersville, Missouri, in the Ozark Mountains. In 1971, after selling the insurance company, the couple carved out 400 acre of their ranch to start Buena Vista Animal Paradise, where tourists could visit exotic animals (now Wild Animal Safari in Strafford, Missouri, just south of Interstate 44).

College football career
Jones attended the University of Arkansas, where he was a member of the Kappa Sigma fraternity. He was co-captain of Arkansas' 1964 national championship football team. He was an offensive lineman for College Football Hall of Fame coach Frank Broyles and a teammate of college football and NFL coach Jimmy Johnson, whom Jones hired as his first head coach after purchasing the Cowboys.

Other notable teammates were Glen Ray Hines, a consensus All-American offensive tackle; Ken Hatfield, who went on to coach several major programs including Arkansas; Jim Lindsey; future Outland Trophy winner Loyd Phillips; and College Football Hall of Fame linebacker Ronnie Caveness. Several future head coaches were assistant coaches for Broyles on the Razorbacks' staff during Jones' college career in Fayetteville, including three more members of the College Football Hall of Fame: Hayden Fry (Southern Methodist University, North Texas State University, and the University of Iowa); Johnny Majors (Iowa State University, University of Pittsburgh, and the University of Tennessee), and Barry Switzer (University of Oklahoma, and later head coach of the Cowboys under Jones).

Jones is one of a very small number of NFL owners who had a significant level of success as a football player.

Business ventures
According to an interview with Jones on HBO, after graduating from college in 1965, he borrowed a million dollars from Jimmy Hoffa's Teamsters union to open up a string of Shakey's Pizza Parlor restaurants in Missouri. When that venture failed, Jones was given a job at his father's insurance company, Modern Security Life of Springfield, Missouri. He received his master's degree in business in 1970. After several other unsuccessful business ventures (including an attempt, again using Teamsters money, to purchase the American Football League's San Diego Chargers in 1966), he began an oil and gas exploration business in Arkansas, Jones Oil and Land Lease, which became successful. His privately held company currently does natural resource prospecting.

In 2008, Jones formed a partnership with Yankee Global Enterprises to create Legends Hospitality, a food, beverage, merchandise, retail, and stadium operations corporation serving entertainment venues.

Dallas Cowboys
On February 25, 1989, Jones purchased the Cowboys from H. R. "Bum" Bright for $140 million (equivalent to $342.8 million in 2023). Soon after the purchase, he fired longtime coach Tom Landry, to that point the only coach in the team's history, in favor of his old teammate at Arkansas, Jimmy Johnson. A few months later, he fired longtime general manager Tex Schramm, and assumed complete control over football matters.

After a slow start under Jones and Johnson (the first season under Jones, a 1–15 finish, remains second only to the team's inaugural season in terms of futility), they quickly built a team often considered one of the best NFL franchises of the 1990s. The Cowboys won Super Bowl XXVII in the 1992 season, as well as Super Bowl XXVIII the following year in the 1993 season. Johnson then departed and was replaced by Barry Switzer, who won Super Bowl XXX in the 1995 season.

At the time of the sale, the financially troubled Bright claimed to be losing $1 million per month on the franchise. During Jones' tenure, the Cowboys have appreciated in value to an estimated $5.5 billion, turning its owner into a billionaire in the process. Much of the league's financial success since 1989 has been credited to Jones himself. In particular, he was decisive in securing Fox as the NFC's primary broadcaster at a time when the traditional "Big Three" networks were trying to convince the league into accepting a rollback in television rights fees.

Increased television revenues have played a decisive role in securing the NFL's place as the world's richest sports league, with revenues of well over $10 billion per season.

The 2020 NFL season was Jones' 32nd as Cowboys owner, more than the combined tenures of his predecessors.

Criticism
In an online poll from October 8, 2003, Jones was named the least-favorite sports personality by Sports Illustrated, in three states (Virginia, Delaware, and Texas).

Jones is often vilified by fans who remain bitter at his unceremonious firings of longtime Cowboys personnel who were fan favorites, head coach Tom Landry and general manager Tex Schramm, even though the Cowboys had done poorly the last few seasons before Jones became owner. Jones stated he did not give consideration to retaining Landry for even a season, as he said he would not have purchased the team unless he could hire Johnson as coach. Jones did not discuss the matter with Landry before announcing the decision. This was denounced by football fans and media as lacking class and respect, as pride and tradition were part of the Cowboys, where great performance and loyal service were expected to be rewarded. Since the dismissal, Jones indicated that he regrets the process of Landry's firing and his role in it. It later emerged that Jones' predecessor, Bright, had been dissatisfied with Landry for years and offered to relieve Jones of the inevitable criticism by dismissing the longtime coach himself prior to selling the team. Bright had wanted to fire Landry as early as 1987, only to have Schramm tell him that there wasn't a suitable replacement available.

Some of the fan criticism is due to Jones' high visibility and involvement as the "face of the team", a contrast to both Bright and the Cowboys' original owner, Clint Murchison Jr. Jones' prominent role has led to fans expressing displeasure with Jones and the lack of success of the franchise, with particular criticism of Jones' serving as his own general manager. There was particular criticism of Jones over his conflict with head coach Jimmy Johnson, as Jones "wanted Cowboys fans to know he had helped build those Super Bowl-winning teams", while "Johnson insisted that he made all of the personnel moves" because he had the final say in football matters and refused to relinquish this power. Consequently, Jones ousted Johnson after the 1993 season despite two consecutive Super Bowl wins and refused to induct Johnson into the Cowboys Ring of Honor for 30 years. On November 19, 2023, Jones announced that Johnson would be inducted into the Cowboys Ring of Honor on December 30 of that year.

Jones and Mike Brown of the Cincinnati Bengals are the only two active NFL owners that have the title of general manager. Jones stated that working as his own general manager helps streamline decision-making and communication lines with the coaching staff. Over Jones' tenure, Cowboys fans have organized a number of grassroots efforts to displace Jones from his position.

Jones is the subject of the 2008 book Playing to Win by David Magee. In the book, Jones admitted he handled the firing of Landry poorly and accepted some blame for the disintegration of his relationship with Landry's successor, Jimmy Johnson.

Jones became involved in the St. Louis Rams move back to Los Angeles with Rams owner Stan Kroenke in 2016. He was instrumental in brokering a deal between Kroenke, San Diego Chargers owner Dean Spanos, and Oakland Raiders owner Mark Davis to ensure that Kroenke's SoFi Stadium plan passed, which it did via a 30–2 owners vote in favor. Jones' support and role in the negotiations were criticized by some fans and sports media in St. Louis. Jones was also a key proponent of the Oakland Raiders' move to Las Vegas to play at Allegiant Stadium.

NFL fines
Jones was fined $25,000 by the NFL for publicly criticizing referee Ed Hochuli after Hochuli made a call in a game between the San Diego Chargers and the Denver Broncos on September 14, 2008. Jones made comments both to the press and on his radio show, saying Hochuli was one of the most criticized officials in the NFL. This was Jones' first fine by the NFL.

In 2009, Jones was fined $100,000 for violating a gag order on labor issues, commenting that revenue sharing was "on its way out". Commissioner Roger Goodell had issued a gag order for all owners and team executives from discussing any aspect of the pending labor issues. Jones "crossed the line", drawing a "six-figure" fine, sources said, as the commissioner distributed a memo to all 32 owners, along with a reminder that the gag order remains in effect. Goodell did not disclose the specific amount of Jones' fine in the memo.

Jones in popular culture
Jones was the inspiration for the character Baxter Cain (Robert Vaughn), owner of the Dallas Felons, in the 1998 film BASEketball. He had a brief cameo appearance as himself in the 1998 made-for-television reunion movie Dallas: War of the Ewings.

Jones and Deion Sanders appeared together in several television commercials during Sanders' time with the Cowboys.

Jones also appeared as himself in a 1996 episode of the TV show Coach and in a 2007 television commercial for Diet Pepsi MAX, which also featured then Cowboys head coach Wade Phillips and quarterback Tony Romo.

He appeared as himself in the seventh season of the HBO series Entourage in 2010, in an episode of the TNT incarnation of Dallas titled "Truth and Consequences", which aired on July 4, 2012, in a series of commercials for the 2012 season of ESPN's Monday Night Football, and in the season 4 premiere of The League. In 2013, Jones narrated a documentary film on former teammate and business partner Jim Lindsey.

Jones also appears in a 2013 Pepsi commercial, walking into an elevator filled with three men wearing New York Giants apparel, who look at him with discontent.

He was parodied on the first episode, "Go Fund Yourself", of the eighteenth season of South Park, along with several other NFL team owners. In one scene, Jones is depicted as having huge, bulging chameleon-like eyes, as a young woman's head pops up from his lap. He reappears in the season 21 episode "Moss Piglets."

Awards and honors
NFL

 * Three-time Super Bowl champion – XXVII, XXVIII, XXX (as owner, president and GM of the Dallas Cowboys)
 * 2014 NFL Executive of the Year

NCAA

 * 1964 FWAA College Football National Championship (as a member of the Arkansas Razorbacks)
 * 2010 NFF Gridiron Club of Dallas Distinguished Texan Award

Media

 * 1993 Outstanding Team ESPY Award (as owner, president and GM of the Dallas Cowboys)

Halls of Fame

 * Pro Football Hall of Fame (class of 2017)

Other

 * 1993 Golden Plate Award of the American Academy of Achievement
 * 2013 Horatio Alger Award
 * Ducks Unlimited (Arkansas branch) Jerry Jones Sportsmans Award named in his honor

Personal life
Jones married Eugenia Chambers in 1963, whom he met while both were college undergraduates. They have three children. Stephen is the Cowboys' chief operating officer, executive vice president, and director of player personnel. Charlotte is the Cowboys' executive vice president and chief brand officer. Jerry Jones Jr. is the Cowboys' chief sales and marketing officer/vice president. Jones owns a home in Destin, Florida.

Jones revealed in July 2015 at a press conference before Cowboys training camp that he had undergone hip replacement surgery, joking that he wouldn't start the season on the PUP list.

, Jones' net worth is reported by Forbes to be $8.5 billion, the majority of which can be accounted for as being his ownership stake in the Cowboys who are currently valued by the same publication to be the world's most valuable sports team at $5 billion.

In March 2022, Jones was served with legal action by a 25-year-old woman who claimed that he is her biological father. The woman is the daughter of a former airline employee that Jones met in Little Rock, Arkansas. Jones has paid nearly $3 million to the woman and her mother, which included the woman's full tuition at Southern Methodist University and a $70,000 Range Rover on her 16th birthday. Requests for money and other expenses exceeded the amount that Jones agreed to pay in the trust agreement between the parties by nearly $1 million over the years, including $33,000 for a "Sweet 16" birthday party, which was featured on the reality TV show Big Rich Texas. On February 29, 2024, a court decision required Jones to undergo a paternity test concerning the woman's claim.

In November 2022, a 1957 photo surfaced depicting a 14-year-old Jerry Jones witnessing an argument where White students attempted to prevent six African-American students from entering North Little Rock High School in Arkansas. North Little Rock was beginning to integrate in 1957. Despite the school's head football coach ordering the team (which Jones was a part of) to stay away from such scenes, Jones said he was there as a curious bystander. Jones also stated: "I don't know that I or anybody anticipated or had a background of knowing what was involved. It was more a curious thing." Jones has expressed regret in not doing more to help the Black students feel more accepted at Little Rock.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Jerry Jones


text:
Talk:Wu Zetian

She gave Chinese a numeral for 0.
Given how important the concept of 0 is and how much easier it is to do mathematics with a symbol for 0, we should include this.

In Unicode, the Chinese numeral for 0 is "〇". The character for the word "zero" is "零". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.103.109.31 (talk) 19:46, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 April 2022
From this event onwards, whenever the emperor attended to business, the empress then hung a curtain [and listened] from behind it. There was no matter of government, great or small, which she did not hear. The whole power of the empire passed into her hands; reward and punishment, life and death, she decided. The emperor just folded his hands and that is all. In court and country, they were called the “Two Sages” 5.31.228.200 (talk) 10:32, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:51, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

Surname linking
The first note, stating that her surname is Wu, should link to Wu (surname 武). 72.82.43.12 (talk) 19:17, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wu Zetian


text:
HMS Queen Elizabeth

HMS Queen Elizabeth could refer to one of three ships named in honour of Elizabeth I of England:
 * HMS Queen Elizabeth (1913) was the lead ship of the Queen Elizabeth-class battleships, launched in 1913 and scrapped in 1948
 * HMS Queen Elizabeth was to have been the first of the 1960s planned CVA-01-class aircraft carriers, but the class was never constructed
 * HMS Queen Elizabeth (R08) is the first ship of the Queen Elizabeth-class aircraft carriers, launched in 2014, on sea trials as of June 2017 and commissioned in December 2017

Battle honours

 * Dardanelles 1915
 * Crete 1941
 * Sabang 1944
 * Burma 1944–45
 * East Indies 1945

title: HMS Queen Elizabeth


text:
Talk:Satyagraha

Comment
Entry should also mention Martin Luther King and learning of Satyagraha from Gandhians in the 1950s, using it as an extention of Jesus' 'love in action' put into a new concept. Also might refer to new excellent work from Center for Nonviolence education, written by Michael N. Nagler.

Idea of Stayagraha is 'truth force' which King used in context of Jesus' lessons. (See both Stride Toward Freedom by King, and Hope or Terror on METTA website)

Noma119

Bouncing from pacifist,to pacifism, to Gandhi where I clipped up this:

Gandhi's principle of satyagraha (Sanskrit: truth + grasping firmly or holding onto it), often roughly translated as "passive resistance"...

Very roughly.How on Earth does truth become passive and grasping firmly become resistance?

---I want to reinforce this last comment. In one of his essays (can't recall which right now) Gandhi *specifically* repudiates the idea that satyagraha is passive resistance. the point of satyagraha (which is far more profitably translated as 'soul force') is that it is *not* passive. it is nonviolent force designed to generate a specific outcome, and the reason Gandhi advocates it is not only because it is nonviolent but because he believed it to be almost universally effective. he did *not* believe the same thing of passive resistance--in fact, he quite vigorously disliked passive resistance.

The translation stopped me dead in my tracks. Satyagraha is possibly a neologism of Gandhi's. I think truth+force is the way it gets translated. People writing the several articles have not got a good handle on Gandhi.

Yes there are too many quotes. But I like'm, but, they got to be pruned, stabalized, and then pruned again. They should go at the end of the article.Letters with Tolsoy are in the public domain possibly. It might be a large article, if we look at this as a serious philosophy, which created the world's largest democracy, and showed the meaning of will to the British Empire. There is a lack of subtlety, in the way the wikipedia talk pages handle Gandhi. Based on how cruical he is to entries in biographies, philosophy, history, we can free up some wikipedians for brilliant prose if we provide an authoritative shorter entry.

Two16Two16

IMHO, somebody should put the bibliographic reference of these texts from Gandhi. From where they were taken from? This is important, for reference and information (e.g, I am interested in reading more about it, it would be nice to start looking for this books). 161.148.79.107

The copyright of all writings of Mahatma Gandhi vests with M/s Navajivan Trust, P.O. Navajivan, Ahmedabad-380014.

Section on "Economic Satyagraha" seems like a promotional link.
The section on "Economic Satyagraha" doesn't seem encyclopedic in the least. I checked the literature linked by this section, and the connection to Gandhian satyagraha is spurious. I propose cleanup or deletion.

68.57.139.189 (talk) 21:45, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Why is using satyagraha as one of the foundations for the development of an ideology a fake? I propose getting your fact straight before casting assertions! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.35.225 (talk) 08:11, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Origins of Satyagraha
replaced "earlier" with "various" since Jesus and everything else listed came AFTER the Upanishads, Jainism, etc, not before. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.221.55 (talk) 06:58, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

important question: Gandhis relation to Jesus
Did Gandhi explicitly relate to Jesus, especially his law "love your enemies" anywhere in his writings or outline of Satyagraha? Just started studying, so excuse me if the question is dumb.

--Jesusfreund 20:06, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

---

I read the same thing about Muhammed's influence on him:

"I become more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet, the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers and his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle."

http://playandlearn.org/ramadhan/YouMustKnowThisMan.htm

Yes, Gandhi often said that Jesus was an influence on him. He was particularly devoted to the Sermon of the Mount, which he read frequently, and often quoted the phrases "Love your enomies" and "retaliate not against evil." (His favorite Christian hymns were Lead, Kindly Light and Abide With Me. Tom129.93.17.139 19:16, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

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Leo Tolstoy's The Kingdom of God is Within You seems to have been a major influence. The book is largely focused on the message of the Sermon on the Mount. JSteinbeck2 (talk) 14:46, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

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Just to add: When Gandhi died, among his very few personal possessions were only three books: the Bhagavad Gita, the Koran, and the Bible.JSteinbeck2 (talk) 09:52, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Messy?
I think this article needs a clean-up tag. Doesn't look encyclopedic at all. Discuss? User:Borisblue

 * Agreed. It's basically just a few long Gandhi quotes. Cleanup... Jebba 00:58, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

 * also, and more importantly i think, the quotes in the 'civil disobedience' and 'fasting' sections are never actually identified AS quotes. if you just skip down to one of those sections (which i did when first coming to this article) it sounds like an incredibly POV writer, not like a quote. (oops, that was me --dan 15:09, 4 July 2006 (UTC))

Not "messy", just incomplete!
We're not told in this article what Satyagraha is. Nor are we treated to a history of the concept and its uses by Gandhi and others.

And to we have a system of diacritics on Wikipedia, so we can distinguish between long and short vowels? Tom —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.93.17.139 (talk) 19:20, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Non-possession
Could someone familiar with this topic do some work on the above article? I recreated it after it was speedy deleted, but I am unfamiliar with this area and only modified what the original author had written. Thanks! KnightLago (talk) 05:24, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Non-possession is not the same as neither poverty nor posperity. I realized that an entry needed to be written to clarify the topic upon encountering the text. --Ellesmelle (talk) 01:44, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Ghandi's actual practice?
The article should talk about the movement that Ghandi led in India, and its effects, victories and failures. -Pgan002 (talk) 05:59, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Not a portmanteau
Just pointing out that "satyagraha" is not a portmanteau, it's a regular compound word. In accordance with Sanskrit sandhi, the short a at the end of satya and the initial a in agraha result in a long ā. --93.105.206.29 (talk) 13:24, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation
Shouldn't the pronunciation be /sʌ'tja:grʌhʌ/, then? Hieronymus Illinensis (talk) 06:52, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

The opera
Philip Glass composed an opera called Satyagraha, loosely based on life of Ghandi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.2.132.119 (talk) 19:58, 31 March 2011 (UTC)

Generalize the header about genocide-related views
Under the header "Satyagraha and the Jewish Holocaust" the text also contains views about possible attack on India by Japan. Not only about Jews and Germany.

Since most Indians were not Jews at the time, and the citations are still arguably somehow interconnected, it would seem more fitting to rename the header to a more general header that could incorporate both the Jewish Holocaust and the views about the possible Japan attack on India. Maybe it could be called "Satyagraha in relation to genocide" or something like that. Comments are welcome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Naxa (talk • contribs) 10:36, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

 * Good point. I renamed the section according to Naxa's suggestion since nobody had a better idea so far. — Sebastian 15:12, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Distinction from civil resistance
Currently, the article begins "Satyagrah [...] is a particular form of nonviolent resistance or civil resistance." But how is it particular? What distinguishes it from civil resistance? As far as I know, Gandhi himself used the two terms synonymously; preferring S. because it is positive, as opposed to a "non"-word. The gist of the article seems to be that S. is "civil resistance like what they did in India". If that is so, maybe we should treat this article as if its title were "History of civil resistance in India", and merge the rest into civil resistance? — Sebastian 15:12, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Of course, the distinction we can make is that Satyagrah comes with a distinct set of rules for practitioners. I was in a bit in a hurry right now and didn't think this through; please bear with me for now; I'll get back to it soon. — Sebastian 15:23, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

"Nonviolent resistance" in the definition
In addition to the lack of a distinctive definition mentioned above, there is another question I have about the lead: the addition of "nonviolent resistance" in the lead sentence seems superfluous to me, given that civil resistance itself is currently defined by means of nonviolent resistance, so that it would be impossible to have the former without the latter. Can I just remove this? — Sebastian 15:12, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Jainism-related image spamming
I've not quite figured out what's been going on with the Jainism-related image spamming and edit-warring (and the larger Jainism-related content). It all seems to be part of Sockpuppet investigations/JBM1971, but maybe someone will offer another perspective at some point. --Ronz (talk) 04:30, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

To help with the cleanup, there are two images and a few articles involved. Starting a list: --Ronz (talk) 15:31, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
 * The SPI was moved to Sockpuppet investigations/Atmnn
 * Images:    --Ronz (talk) 17:56, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The SPI was moved to Sockpuppet investigations/Atmnn
 * Images:    --Ronz (talk) 17:56, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The SPI was moved to Sockpuppet investigations/Atmnn
 * Images:    --Ronz (talk) 17:56, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The SPI was moved to Sockpuppet investigations/Atmnn
 * Images:    --Ronz (talk) 17:56, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * The SPI was moved to Sockpuppet investigations/Atmnn
 * Images:    --Ronz (talk) 17:56, 10 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Images:    --Ronz (talk) 17:56, 10 February 2019 (UTC)

Picture on Satyagraha
Hello!

I drew a picture on Satyagraha. It is already used in the german article (Satyagraha). This is the English version of it.

It is a possible interpretation of the Satyagraha doctrine directly derived from the texts of Gandhi. There also exists a photography of a "graphic training aid" from Sabarmati Ashram (see File:Mg-satyagraha.jpg) - but there can be problems with freedom of panorama and so on. So this SVG graphic can be an alternative! :-)

Is it good enough for the english article?

Friendly greetings, Quark48 (talk) 20:45, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't keep up on image-policy, but my understanding is that an image like that is usually rejected on content policy (WP:OR and WP:POV especially) and accessibility issues. --Ronz (talk) 01:37, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Okay, thank you! So I understood, that a picture like this has to come from an "official" source. Quark48 (talk) 15:36, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I said nothing about it being from an "official" source. I suggest you seek help with editors that specialize in image-policy. --Ronz (talk) 15:52, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Did you mean Image use policy? Or where can I ask specialists? It would be great if you could help me here! I am new to the english Wikipedia. :-) Quark48 (talk) 18:49, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't know where to find help on such issues, but Wikipedia talk:Image use policy certainly looks like a good place to try next. --Ronz (talk) 19:14, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I'll try Teahouse! :-) Quark48 (talk) 20:48, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Satyagraha