text:
Talk:Wigner's friend

Superposition
Can someone link this word in the article to what it means? Eg is it Quantum_superposition. I am trying to understand this page but am stuck on superposition. Crackerlacken

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Crackerlacken (talk • contribs) 03:48, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I have some ideas:

1) Instead of a friend, have the machine produce either a 2 000-gram or a 2 001-gram bag of sand. You cannot tell which the bag is merely by picking it up... but will picking up the bag collapse the wave function? Will weighing the bag on an accurate scale collapse the wave function?

2) Have the machine produce a bag containing either 50 003 or 50 008 ball bearings (of non-uniform weight). Will (a human) counting the ball bearings collapse the wave function? If it is known that the person who counts the ball bearings tends to make errors in counting, will his attempt at counting still collapse the wave function? Will merely looking at each of the ball bearings in turn, without (consciously) counting them, collapse the wave function? Suppose we have a machine count the ball bearings. Let us say that it is a mechanical device, with a mechanical counter. If you look at all of the digits of the counter except the last digit, will this collapse the wave function? If you look at the right-hand half of the right hand digit (since "3" and "8" have similar-looking right-hand halves), will this collapse the wave function?

Number 2 is not at all what I call farfetched. I have, at times, tried counting things several times, and got different answers. I began to honestly wonder if the number of (macroscopic) items in a bag had to be "fixed", or if it could be "fuzzy" in a quantum sort of way.

"Alive cat" as direct quote?
There is the line "alive cat/happy friend,". Was the term "alive cat" actually used in any source material? Typically English treats "alive" as a predicate adjective which may not precede a noun; we would rather say "the living cat" or "the cat is alive", but not "the alive cat". samwaltz 19:18, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Amend second par for clarity
The following par was the 2nd one of this article. I have replaced it with the one below it, for reasons given at the end.

"It posits a friend of Wigner who performs the Schrödinger's cat experiment while Wigner is out of the room. Only when Wigner comes into the room does he himself know the result of the experiment: until this point, was the state of the system a superposition of 'dead cat/sad friend' and 'alive cat/happy friend,' or was it determined at some previous point?" "It posits a friend of Wigner who performs the Schrödinger's cat experiment after Wigner leaves the laboratory. Only when he returns does Wigner learn the result of the experiment from his friend, that is, whether the cat is alive or dead. The question is raised: was the state of the system a superposition of 'dead cat/sad friend' and 'live cat/happy friend,' that was only determined when Wigner learnt the result of the experiment, or was it determined at some previous point?"

1.“he himself” is confusing. It is not immediately apparent whether the pronoun refers to Wigner or his friend. I have made “he” unambiguously refer to Wigner.

2. I have made it manifest that Wigner learns the result of the experiment from his friend, not from direct observation.

3.I have remedied stylistic awkwardness of last part of sentence.

4.I have substituted “live cat” for “alive cat”. Myles325a 02:29, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

What about the consciousness of Wigner's friend?
An element of this thought experiment that I found puzzling is that it is Wigner's friend who first learns of the result of the experiment. If thought experiment is designed to illustrate that consciousness has a privileged function in collapsing the wave function, then is it not Wigner who collapses it first? In that case, Wigner has come too late to collapse it himself.

Otoh, suppose Wigner's friend had no idea of what the experiment involves. He only has to push a hutton, and tear off a print-out produced automatically by a printer attached to the box, upon the completion of the experiment. This printout contains a coded message detailing the result of the experiment. In such a case, we might posit that if Wigner's friend can read and understand the message, the act of reading collapses the wave function and the cat can be said to definitely dead or alive. But if he cannot, then it is Wigner himself who collapses the wave function when he returns and reads the printout himself. Myles325a 02:59, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Recent Rewrite
The recent re-write is not good. It is completely idiosyncratic and reads like a personal essay. 1Z (talk) 22:17, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

What the hell is a bad world count?
I'm not asking for a lecture on MW. I've been studying it for years, and I'v eenver heard the term. 1Z (talk) 22:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

 * A "bad world count" is a nonstandard term. But for some reason I know what the author was getting at. Imagine doing a spin detection on a particle in the following unnormalized state:
 * $$( |up\rangle + 2 |down\rangle)$$
 * The end result is |Saw UP> + 2 |saw DOWN>. Now if you start "world-counting", meaning, counting the number of different observers that this superposition describes, you disect the wavefunction into two worlds. So if you naively think about it as a splitting of consciousness or whatnot, then you would expect a 50% probability. But quantum mechanics says you |saw DOWN> 80% of the time. So the bad world count gave a wrong probability.

 * So maybe things get better if you do the experiment again and again. But if the initial state is a product of (up +2down)(up + 2down) etc and you do the experiment N times, the counting of worlds gives you the same distribution of observers, a 50/50 split. It's wrong.

 * Everett realized that this is not the right way to count worlds, and he introduced a measure on the worlds--- the idea is that worlds with small wavefunction values count less, and worlds with very small wavefunction values count hardly at all. If you add this assumption, then you can show that the worlds where the splitting is different from 80/20 have a negligible weight. But this definition requires you to weight the experiences of observers so that the probability comes out right. There is only one reasonable way to do this, as shown by Everett and Wheeler, because the continuity assumption that small amplitude leads to small likelihood determines the whole psi squared probability. So it's ok. Its philosophically troubling to some people at first, because they might believe that anytime the wavefunction leaks into a tiny corner of phase space a "real" observer pops into being.

 * I've heard thirdhand that there were arguments for the uniqueness of psi-squared probability by Bohm and others in the previous generation, along similar lines except without duplicated observers. It isn't difficult to translate the argument into Copenhagen, except there you would use a detector measuring multiple times instead of an observer looking multiple times, but the result is the same. At the end of N measurements on identically prepared systems, you measure the detector, and then you find that whatever your psi-to-probability measure (so long as zero psi gives zero probability and it is continuous), for large N it becomes certain that the detector detected 80/20, confirming that the psi squared measure is the correct one.

 * Getting the world count right is the philosophical headache in Everett style interpretations. It's essentially the same difficulty as the interpretation problem in the Copenhagen interpretation, and it can be thought of as the mind-body problem in some other theory--- you have a bunch of numbers describing the physics and you need to turn them into observer experiences. It's just incredible to me that such a subtle philosophical issue becomes so bone-jarringly obvious in quantum mechanics that everyone had to start thinking about it just so that they could calculate some atomic spectra.Likebox (talk) 19:17, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

"The end result is |Saw UP> + 2 |saw DOWN>." How can an end result (a collapse) be expressed as a ket? A ket is a quantum state, no? David Spector (talk) 12:27, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

Wigner's friend/quantum superposition/collapsing the wave function/Bell's theorem
Quantum physics/philosophy seems to have gotten itself tied up in knots by believing that what is in essence a solipsistic set of ideas, propounded by a forceful personality (Niels Bohr) and his heirs, is the framework by which we must consider the Einstein-Bohr debates, Schrodinger's cat, Wigner's friend, etc. At some point, one would think that more thinkers would back off and see that this all seems to be akin to medieval theology: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?--can God make a knot that he can't untie? Does anybody find it Twilight Zone-ish to hear Wigner (and, earlier, von Neumann, I believe) speak of consciousness--which, it could be argued, is no more than a term referring solely to complex neural (i.e., physical) processes--as the cause of collapse? What level of consciousness? Is a mouse's sufficient for collapse, as Einstein sarcastically noted? What if humans can cause collapse, but on that day Wigner and his friend are too tired to make reliable observations, or their IQs have suddenly dropped? Under these circumstances, will their purported observatiions cause collapse? Of course, if one enjoys Bishop George Berkeley's philosophy, it is easy to see misled thinkers pondering as they do. (Does anyone read all of this and think of Mark Twain [I believe] who marveled at modern science as such a wonderful endeavor: One receives such a healthy return in conjecture for such a trifling investment of fact.)  For the growing number of thinkers who believe with Murray Gell-Mann (may we be forgiven for quoting him favorably) that Niels Bohr has brainwashed generations of physicists, I find that the book, Time's Arrow And Archimedes' Point by Huw Price, 1996, shows that, by seeing the truth of just one premise, these quantum conundrums vanish, and the realistic notions first pioneered by Schrodinger and Einstein become pre-eminent. In particular, I recommend pages 199-260 of the above cited book. There are other books by physicists: Victor Stenger's The Unconscious Quantum and John Gribbin's Schrodinger's Kittens And The Search For Reality, but I find Price's work to be the best. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.49.3.92 (talk) 20:39, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's why we have other interpretations of quantum mechanics. 76.67.72.232 (talk)

misunderstanding
Um, I showed my brother (a high energy physicist currently doing a PHD) this page, and he said that it showed why you should be careful what you consider a measurement, nothing more, and that it in no way proves consciousness. I don't expect you guys to accept that, but maybe some deeper research should be done and someone with more authority should look at this page.

As physics student I concur. This page says almost nothing about Wigner's Friend and what it says is rather misleading. Olleicua (talk) 05:34, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

I'm also a physics student and I agree. The article seems to have a strange understanding of what "measurement" actually means in quantum mechanics. 139.18.149.71 (talk) 12:59, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

OTHER INTERPRETATIONS
So.. there are a lot of interpretations of quantum physics. Many worlds has its own page. This page is about Wigner, not Everet. Why then is the majority of the page (and the only reference) devoted to Everet and Many worlds. This borders on an NPOV issue IMO because it makes it appear that there is only one major interpretation of QM. 216.158.163.188 (talk) 05:32, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, the above comment is mine, I forgot to sign in. Olleicua (talk) 05:33, 8 December 2009 (UTC)

Hidden variable theories
I have the book cited above, Times's Arrow, and it says very clearly on page 200, "I think it is fair to say that the measurement problem is an unsolved one, despite heroic efforts."

Further, hidden variable theories, which are those that present the most credible alternative to the Copenhagen interpretation, have been cast in doubt by experiments that prove that Bell's inequalities do not hold (up to 242 standard deviations). See the wikipedia article Hidden variable theory. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cliffberg (talk • contribs) 04:52, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

 * I think that claim is overly broad. Read the Hidden variable theory article more carefully and you'll see that Bell's theorem and Aspect's experiments argued only against theories in which all hidden variables are local, not against all theories of hidden variables. Stating this in Einstein's terms: God might not play dice but He sometimes does things spookily at a distance. SEppley (talk) 15:50, 27 November 2011 (UTC)

 * Okay, but those spooky things at a distance cannot transport information. Therefore, they must be illusions, just as much as stars appearing from Earth to move faster than c, or the point of closing of a scissors being able to move faster than c. That's an important point to remember. There is strangeness in QM, but nothing that results in miracles in the sense of violation of natural laws. QM has the potential to produce wonderful things (room temperature superconductors, room temperature superfluidity, and probably very fast quantum parallel computers), but not physical miracles like time travel of humans, time travel for human senses, time speedup or slowdown, antigravity devices, instant communication over long distances (even of one bit of information), perpetual motion, or teleportation of humans. David Spector (talk) 20:54, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Seems like nonsense to me; what am I missing here?
What if there are N friends in the chain? Why would the collapse not happen at the first friend who observes? why should it happen at the 2nd in the chain, or the last in the chain? More to my reductio ad absurdum point, is it sensible to ask if a tree makes a sound if it falls in an unpopulated forest?

It seems to me that observation does not require consciousness, it just requires injecting energy into a system. Push in a little energy and you can observe the interference known as the Uncertainty Principle. Push in enough energy and you can generate new kinds of fundamental particles!

If observation (perturbing with energy then measuring the new state) collapses wave functions, then, by Occam's/Parsimony, we don't need to invoke consciousness. David Spector (talk) 02:12, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

"Experimental recreation"
I strongly object to this addition. The experiment has yet to be peer-reviewed, and moreover, the coverage is almost pure hype. We cannot build an encyclopedia upon unreliable sources. Nor is the description of the experiment accurate: the test was done on photons, making it not an example of the defining feature of the Wigner's-friend idea, which is placing an actual observer in a quantum superposition. In no way should the Proietti et al. paper be presented as a real implementation of Wigner's friend, or any extension thereof. Reading the paper beyond their grandiose abstract makes this absolutely clear. We cannot even argue that it is a notable un-peer-reviewed experiment, since the coverage derives entirely by cloning from a single, awful blog post at Technology Review. Echoing the blithering of the hype machine is not our job here. The text in question is simply unacceptable. XOR'easter (talk) 20:30, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
 * And even if you take the (ludicrous) step of regarding a photon as an "observer", the experiment didn't implement Wigner's Friend, but a variation of it due to Časlav Brukner, so the text can't even get that much right. The sentence Wigner's friend experiment has been experimentally recreated, with the outcome as predicted by Wigner is wrong on both points, since it wasn't Wigner's proposal, and so the outcomes couldn't have been what Wigner predicted. With half the text being wrong, and the other half an admission the work is not yet published in a reliable source, we can't make the case for including it. The edit summary compares this case to that of FTL neutrinos, but there is really no analogy to be made. That was a report by a major collaboration which immediately attracted not just fawning press reports, but careful investigation by actual physicists (together with all kinds of speculation in the range between). This ... isn't that. Maybe it will be eventually, but Wikipedia is neither a rumor mill nor a prophecy service. We lose nothing by waiting for the formal cycle of physicist (and, in this case, potentially also philosopher) commentary and critique. XOR'easter (talk) 21:34, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I second everything XOR'easter says above. This is nothing like FTL neutrinos and the experiment in question is a far cry from any sort of experimental verification of the Wigner's friend scenario. --Patchworld (talk) 00:08, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Calm down. Yes, it is not notable (but notability applies to article topics, not to their content), it is not peer-reviewed, and it is a primary source.  I do not think that your objection that photons are not observers is sensible in the context.  In all, I think that a mention of this does not belong in the lead, but that it does merit a mention alongside the equally shaky  (which seems like it could do with severe trimming).  The article is not at the quality level where every mention of non-notable research must be excluded.  I would suggest that both these should be reduced to subsections of a section "Published papers", or suchlike.  —Quondum 01:10, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree that the long section on extensions could stand trimming. It is rather, well, over-extended. In addition, it focuses excessively upon a single version of the idea, and not necessarily the first or the clearest. The first was, I believe, the version by Brukner, originally posted in 2015. The variant by Jeffrey Bub from 2018 might be less notationally demanding than what the article is currently trying to explain. (My use of the word "notable" merely echoed the edit summary to which I was responding. If I were in the mood to be a stickler for the peculiarities of Wikipedia's internal jargon, which I am sometimes, I'd call its inclusion in the lead a "violation of WP:UNDUE" instead.) Cheers, XOR'easter (talk) 03:58, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

Contradictory addition
This edit introduces an error. The point of the "consciousness causes collapse" dodge is to ensure that the so-called paradox of inconsistent state assignments does not arise, because the friend is a conscious being so Wigner would not treat him as an ordinary quantum-mechanical system. It is not that there is a contradiction, specifically in the "consciousness causes collapse" interpretation, but that consciousness causing "collapse" (however that is supposed to work) escapes the contradiction. The contradiction is not specific to the "consciousness causes collapse" interpretation.

The article is already fantastically unclear; let's not make it worse, please. XOR'easter (talk) 01:28, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Fun fact maybe worth noting: at least in his later years, Wigner himself didn't actually hold to the "consciousness causes collapse" idea. He regarded that as the logical conclusion of the premises he had originally set out, but instead found the conclusion sufficiently absurd to be grounds to question the validity of those premises . XOR'easter (talk) 01:38, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Reading that whole section from the top again, it needs more thorough revision to tell apart the wavefunction-collapse-is-change-of-information way of thinking (Peierls, Zeilinger, Fuchs, Mermin, etc.) with wavefunction-collapse-is-a-physical-event-caused-by-consciousness (like in the Greg Egan novel Quarantine). XOR'easter (talk) 22:09, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

recent experiment
Paper summary might be usable in article. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 08:39, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you for those links. The summary is by the authors themselves, which is both good and bad: it presents what they think without an intermediary, but it's not an evaluation by a secondary source. The copy at phys.org is a reprint of the original posting at The Conversation, here. XOR'easter (talk) 17:57, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Wigner's friend has nothing to do with Schrodinger's cat
Have none of the contributors of this article actually read what Wigner wrote? He doesn't once mention anything about cats, Schrodinger's or otherwise.

Look, here is Wigner's article: http://www.informationphilosopher.com/solutions/scientists/wigner/Wigner_Remarks.pdf

This article needs a total rewrite from somebody who knows what they're talking about. I don't know where all this talk of "dead cat/sad friend" came from, but it wasn't Wigner.

This article is a total shambles. Embarrassing.

No such thing as friend or amusing or not, laugh any. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Viwkls (talk • contribs) 01:04, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

From Wigners article: "One can either say that the wave function was invented to yield the proper probabilities, or that the law given in quotation marks has been obtained by having carried out a calculation with the wave functions, the use of which we have learned from Schrodinger. ", page 175. Before he describes a likewise experiment as with a cat, but with light flashes.

Also on : "Let's use the cat example, because it is more vivid. You can see Wigner's original argument on the Wigner's Friend page.. The physicist friend inside the lab opens the box and observes either a live or dead cat. But Wigner is outside the lab and does not know the outcome. Wigner says this seems to leave the world in a superposition of states - "dead cat/sad friend" and "live cat/happy friend." Wigner says that any inanimate material measuring device is left in a superposition of states. This would include his friend and himself, but for human consciousness. He resolves his paradox by saying that consciousness collapses the wave function, both his friend's inside the laboratory and his own." GerGroeneveld (talk) 04:21, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

News article in Science
"Paradox puts objectivity on shaky footing" George Musser  Science 369 Pages 889-890  28 August 2020 Charles Juvon (talk) 22:16, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ - Already considered and added - see this edit and related - iac - Drbogdan (talk) 22:25, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

Reinstate Reference?
I would like to consider reinstating the reference on this page to: -

Łukaszyk, Szymon (2018-01-25). "A No-go Theorem for Superposed Actions (Making Schrödinger's Cat Quantum Nonlocal)". New Frontiers in Physical Science Research. 3: 137–151. arXiv:1801.08537. doi:10.9734/bpi/nfpsr/v3/17106D

The reference was removed in November 2022 by Tercer as the author was considered self-promoting and B P International as a predatory publisher. My understanding is that B P international is not predatory (but I am basing this on a browse of their site and consideration of the sorts of publications they produce), and that the reference could be allowed to stand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Travelkev (talk • contribs) 11:57, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
 * It is a predatory publisher, as listed here under the name "Sciencedomain International". Also, the edit was clearly self-promotion, as the user who added it is the author of the paper. I'm very curious about how you even find out about the removal of this source, given that you haven't edited in 6 years, and never in physics articles. Tercer (talk) 17:33, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Extended Wigner's friend arguments
The section "An extension of the Wigner's friend experiment" should be changed to "Extended Wigner's friend thought experiments" to provide a summary of various extended Wigner's friend no-go theorems developed in the past 7~8 years, not just the Frauchiger-Renner theorem. For example, the Local Friendliness theorem is also a significant development in quantum foundations based on Wigner's friend ). The content in the current section could be moved to a separate wiki page for the Frauchiger-Renner no-go theorem. Ggstddup (talk) 12:22, 6 August 2023 (UTC)

Wigner's friend as a quantum circuit
This article includes the following: "On the other hand, one presentation of the experiment as a quantum circuit models the agents as single qubits and their reasoning as simple conditional operations. [21]" where the citation is the following blog post, which itself appears to be blank: Watching the Watchmen: Demystifying the Frauchiger-Renner Experiment — musings from Lidia del Rio and more at the 6th FQXi Meeting

I looked through Lidia de Rio's publication list on Google scholar and found this paper: Thought experiments in a quantum computer, which introduces a software library for running Wigner's friend as a quantum circuit. I'm not certain if this is the first article to propose a formulation of this thought experiment as a quantum circuit, but it seems a more appropriate citation for the above quotation. I reached out to the author to confirm this, but haven't heard back. PlantainPhysics (talk) 17:35, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

 * I would just remove that sentence. Modelling it as a quantum circuit is trivial and achieves nothing in the way of enlightenment. Tercer (talk) 20:55, 26 March 2024 (UTC)
 * It may be trivial for experts, but it seems appropriate to include in an introductory article like this. Enlightenment is in the eye of the beholder, and personally speaking, I found it interesting that this formulation had been implemented. I accept that the above citation was likely not the first time it was introduced. Perhaps given that David Deutsch extended the Wigner's friend thought experiment in as well as having a canonical quantum algorithm named after him, he may have connected these two at one point. I simply haven't read all the relevant papers from that era. 2601:602:8D00:3C70:CCCA:7D82:7ED:1BE9 (talk) 16:12, 27 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wigner's friend


text:
1908 in literature

This article contains information about the literary events and publications of 1908.

Events

 * February 15 – The weekly boys' story paper The Magnet is first published in London, containing "The Making of Harry Wharton", the first serial story of the fictional Greyfriars School written by Charles Hamilton as Frank Richards and introducing the character of Billy Bunter.
 * March – Ezra Pound leaves America for Europe. In April, he moves to Venice, where in July he publishes himself his first collection of poems, A Lume Spento (dedicated to his friend Philadelphia artist William Brooke Smith, who has just died of tuberculosis). In August he settles in London, where he will remain until 1920 and in December publish A Quinzaine for this Yule.
 * June 18 – Mark Twain buys a house in Redding, Connecticut.
 * Summer – The Marlowe Society stages a production at the New Theatre, Cambridge (England), of Milton's masque Comus, directed by Rupert Brooke.
 * July – Katherine Mansfield moves to London; she will never return to her native New Zealand.
 * September 30 – Maurice Maeterlinck's The Blue Bird (L'Oiseau bleu) is premièred, at Konstantin Stanislavsky's Moscow Art Theatre.
 * October 3 – The Avenida Theatre opens on Buenos Aires' Avenida de Mayo with a production of Lope de Vega's El castigo sin venganza (Justice Without Revenge, 1631) directed by María Guerrero.
 * November 10 – Opening of a production of Euripides' The Bacchae directed by William Poel in Gilbert Murray's verse translation at the Royal Court Theatre in London under the management of Harley Granville-Barker with his wife Lillah McCarthy in the role of Dionysus.
 * November 18 – The release in France of La Mort du duc de Guise marks the first film with a screenplay by an eminent man of letters, the playwright Henri Lavedan; it is also directed by two men of the theatre, Charles Le Bargy and André Calmettes, and features actors of the Comédie-Française.
 * December – Ford Madox Hueffer begins publication of the literary magazine The English Review in London. The first issue contains original work by Thomas Hardy, Henry James, Joseph Conrad, John Galsworthy and W. H. Hudson, and begins serialization of H. G. Wells's realist semi-autobiographical satirical novel Tono-Bungay.
 * December 1 – Cuala Press, set up at Churchtown, Dublin, as a private press independent of the former Dun Emer Press in connection with the Irish Literary Revival and Arts and Crafts movement by Elizabeth "Lolly" Yeats with editorial support from her brother W. B. Yeats, produces its first publication, Poetry and Ireland: Essays by W. B. Yeats and Lionel Johnson (died 1902).
 * unknown dates
 * Ethiopian linguist Afevork Ghevre Jesus's ልብ ፡ ወለድ ፡ ታሪክ ። (Libb Wolled Tārīk, "A Heart-Born Story"), the first novel in Amharic, is published in Rome.
 * The Malay tale Hikayat Hang Tuah (c. 1700) is first published, edited by Sulaiman bin Muhammed Nur and William Shellabear.
 * The Romanian writer Urmuz is known to be working on his manuscript stories, the Bizarre Pages, printed only after 1922.

Fiction

 * Afevork Ghevre Jesus – Libb Wolled Tārīk (A Heart-Born Story)
 * Leonid Andreyev – The Seven Who Were Hanged
 * Francis Aveling – Arnoul the Englishman
 * Arnold Bennett
 * Buried Alive
 * The Old Wives' Tale
 * E.F. Benson – The Blotting Book
 * Bigehuan zhuren (碧荷館主人) – New Era (新紀元, Xīn Jìyuán)
 * Algernon Blackwood – John Silence, Physician Extraordinary
 * Alexander Bogdanov – Red Star
 * Mary Elizabeth Braddon – During Her Majesty's Pleasure
 * Rhoda Broughton – Mamma
 * G. K. Chesterton – The Man Who Was Thursday
 * Marie Corelli – Holy Orders
 * James Oliver Curwood – The Courage of Captain Plum and The Gold Hunters
 * Machado de Assis – Memorial de Aires
 * Grazia Deledda – L'edera (The Ivy, first Italian publication)
 * Mary and Jane Findlater – Crossriggs
 * Anatole France – Penguin Island
 * E. M. Forster – A Room with a View
 * John Fox, Jr. – The Trail of the Lonesome Pine
 * Mary E. Wilkins Freeman – The Shoulders of Atlas
 * Maxim Gorky
 * The Life of a Useless Man
 * A Confession
 * Jeannie Gunn – We of the Never Never
 * Robert Hichens – A Spirit in Prison
 * William Hope Hodgson – The House on the Borderland
 * Alfred Kubin – Die andere Seite (The Other Side)
 * Gaston Leroux – The Perfume of the Lady in Black
 * Jack London – The Iron Heel
 * W. Somerset Maugham – The Magician
 * José Toribio Medina – Los Restos Indígenas de Pichilemu
 * Natsume Sōseki (夏目 漱石)
 * The Miner (Kōfu, 坑夫)
 * Sanshirō (三四郎)
 * Ten Nights of Dreams (Yume Jū-ya, 夢十夜, short stories)
 * Baroness Orczy – The Elusive Pimpernel
 * Gertrude Page
 * The Edge O' Beyond
 * Paddy the Next Best Thing
 * Mary Roberts Rinehart – The Circular Staircase
 * Arthur Schnitzler – Der Weg ins Freie
 * Georges Sorel – Reflections on Violence
 * H. De Vere Stacpoole – The Blue Lagoon
 * Hermann Sudermann – The Song of Songs
 * Caton Theodorian – Sângele Solovenilor
 * Edgar Wallace
 * Angel Esquire
 * The Council of Justice
 * Robert Walser – Der Gehülfe (The Assistant)
 * Mary Augusta Ward – The Testing of Diana Mallory
 * Jakob Wassermann – Caspar Hauser oder Die Trägheit des Herzens (Caspar Hauser or the Inertia of the Heart)
 * H. G. Wells – The War in the Air

Children and young people

 * L. Frank Baum
 * Dorothy and the Wizard in Oz
 * Aunt Jane's Nieces at Millville (as Edith Van Dyne)
 * The Children's Encyclopædia (begins publication)
 * Kenneth Grahame – The Wind in the Willows
 * Selma Lagerlöf – The Girl from the Marsh Croft
 * Lucy Maud Montgomery – Anne of Green Gables
 * Ferenc Móra – Rab ember fiai (Sons of a Captive)
 * E. Nesbit – The House of Arden
 * Beatrix Potter
 * The Tale of Jemima Puddle-Duck
 * The Tale of Samuel Whiskers or The Roly-Poly Pudding
 * Percy F. Westerman – A Lad of Grit

Drama

 * J. M. Barrie – What Every Woman Knows
 * Jacinto Benavente – Señora ama (The Lady Loves)
 * Tristan Bernard – The Brighton Twins (Les Jumeaux de Brighton)
 * Alexandre Bisson – Madame X (La Femme X)
 * Hall Caine – Pete (new version of The Manxman)
 * Maxim Gorky – The Last Ones (Poslednje)
 * Maurice Maeterlinck – The Blue Bird (L'Oiseau bleu)
 * Octave Mirbeau – Home (Le Foyer)
 * Emma Orczy – Beau Brocade
 * Alicia Ramsey – Byron
 * W. Graham Robertson – Pinkie and the Fairies
 * Edward Sheldon – Salvation Nell
 * J. M. Synge – The Tinker's Wedding
 * Hans Wiers-Jenssen – Anne Pedersdotter (translated as The Witch)
 * Israel Zangwill – The Melting Pot

Poetry

 * Edward Carpenter – Iolaus: Anthology of Friendship
 * W. H. Davies – Nature Poems
 * Maria Konopnicka – Rota (Oath)

Non-fiction

 * Robert Baden-Powell – Scouting for Boys
 * Sarah Bernhardt – My Double Life
 * Annie Besant, C. W. Leadbeater – Occult Chemistry
 * Edward Carpenter – The Intermediate Sex: A Study of Some Transitional Types of Men and Women
 * G. K. Chesterton – All Things Considered
 * W. H. Davies – The Autobiography of a Super-Tramp
 * Levi H. Dowling – The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ
 * Gertrude Jekyll – Colour in the Flower Garden
 * Jack London – War of the Classes
 * Francisco I. Madero – La sucesión presidencial en 1910
 * Titu Maiorescu – Critice (Critical Essays)
 * Friedrich Nietzsche (died 1900) – Ecce homo: Wie man wird, was man ist (written 1888)
 * M. Ostrogorski – Democracy and the Organization of Political Parties (La Démocratie et l'organisation des partis politiques, 1903)
 * George Panu – Amintiri de la Junimea din Iași (Recollections from Junimea of Iași; first volume)
 * Charlotte Carmichael Stopes – The Sphere of 'Man' in Relation to that of 'Woman' in the Constitution
 * Alfred R. Tucker – Eighteen Years in Uganda and East Africa

Births

 * January 9 – Simone de Beauvoir, French feminist philosopher (died 1986)
 * January 16 – Pavel Nilin, Soviet novelist and playwright (died 1981)
 * January 18 – Jacob Bronowski, Polish-born scientist and poet (died 1974)
 * January 20
 * Fleur Cowles, American journalist, editor and illustrator (died 2009)
 * Jean S. MacLeod, Scottish-English romantic novelist (died 2011)
 * February 1 – Leonard Gribble, English novelist (died 1985)
 * February 4 – Julian Bell, English poet (killed 1937)
 * February 11 – Philip Dunne, American screenwriter, director, and producer (died 1992)
 * February 29 – Dee Brown, American novelist and historian (died 2002)
 * March 2 – Olivia Manning, English playwright and novelist (died 1980)
 * March 5 – Irving Fiske, American playwright, WPA writer, and speaker; co-founder of Quarry Hill Creative Center (died 1990),
 * March 6 – Dame Felicitas Corrigan, English writer and Benedictine nun (died 2003)
 * March 8 – Ebrahim Al-Arrayedh, Indian-born Bahraini poet (died 2002)
 * March 22 – Louis L'Amour, American author (died 1988)
 * April 12 – Ida Pollock, British romantic novelist (died 2013)
 * May 17 – Frederic Prokosch, American novelist and poet (died 1989)
 * May 20 – Aleksei Arbuzov, Soviet playwright (died 1986)
 * May 25 – Theodore Roethke, American poet (died 1963)
 * May 27 – Peggy Ramsay, born Margaret Venniker, Australian-born British theatrical agent (died 1991)
 * May 28 – Ian Fleming, English espionage novelist (died 1964)
 * June 1 – Julie Campbell Tatham, American children's writer (died 1999)
 * June 14 – Kathleen Raine, English poet, scholar, and translator (died 2003)
 * June 25 – John Sommerfield, English communist writer (died 1991)
 * June 27 – João Guimarães Rosa, Brazilian novelist (died 1967)
 * June 30
 * Winston Graham, English novelist (died 2003)
 * Rob Nieuwenhuys, Dutch writer (died 1999)
 * July 7 – Laurie Fitzhardinge, Australian historian and librarian (died 1993)
 * July 10 – Carl Richard Jacobi, American journalist and author (died 1997)
 * July 23 – Elio Vittorini, Italian author (died 1966)
 * August 21 – M. M. Kaye, Indian-born English novelist and autobiographer (died 2004)
 * August 23 – Arthur Adamov, French Absurdist playwright (died 1970)
 * August 28
 * Robert Merle, French novelist (died 2004)
 * Marguerite Young, American novelist, poet and biographer (died 1995)
 * August 31 – William Saroyan, American writer (d. 1981)
 * September 4 – Richard Wright, African-American novelist and poet (died 1960)
 * September 9 – Cesare Pavese, Italian poet and novelist (suicide 1950)
 * September 15 – Miško Kranjec, Slovenian writer (died 1983)
 * September 17 – John Creasey, English crime writer (died 1973)
 * October 5 – Joshua Logan, American stage and film writer and director (died 1988)
 * October 13 – Robert Liddell, English biographer, novelist and poet (died 1992)
 * October 17 – Leon Kalustian, Romanian journalist, essayist and memoirist (died 1990)
 * October 23 – Abdurakhman Avtorkhanov, Chechen historian (died 1997)
 * October 24 – Phyllis Shand Allfrey (Phyllis Byam Shand), Dominican writer (died 1986)
 * October 25 – Edmond Pidoux, Swiss writer (died 2004)
 * November 8 – Zhou Yang, Chinese literary theorist (died 1989)
 * November 8 – Martha Gellhorn, American journalist (suicide 1998)
 * November 9 – Lucian Boz, Romanian and Australian literary critic (died 2003)
 * November 20 – Alistair Cooke, English-born American journalist (died 2004)
 * November 21 – Elizabeth George Speare, American children's writer (died 1994)
 * November 23 – Nelson S. Bond, American author, playwright and scriptwriter (died 2006)
 * November 28
 * Claude Lévi-Strauss, Belgian-born French anthropologist (died 2009)
 * Mary Oppen, American poet, activist and photographer (died 1990)
 * November 30 – Buddhadeb Bosu, Bengali poet and writer (died 1974)
 * December 14 – Mária Szepes, Hungarian novelist and screenwriter (died 2007)
 * December 22 – Giovanni Luigi Bonelli, Italian comic book author and writer (died 2001)
 * December 25 – Quentin Crisp, English gay icon, author and raconteur (died 1999)

Deaths

 * January 9 – Wilhelm Busch, German humorist and poet (born 1832)
 * January 14 – Holger Drachmann, Danish poet and dramatist (born 1846)
 * January 18 – Edmund Clarence Stedman, American poet and critic (born 1833)
 * January 25 – Ouida (Maria Louise Ramé), English novelist (born 1839)
 * February 7
 * Alexander Ertel, Russian novelist and short story writer (born 1855)
 * Manuel Curros Enríquez, Spanish Galician writer (born 1851)
 * February 17 – Annie Ryder Gracey, American author and missionary (born 1836)
 * March 4 – Mrs. Henry Clarke (Amy Key), English historical novelist and children's writer (born 1853)
 * March 11 – Edmondo De Amicis, Italian novelist (born 1846)
 * March 12 – Susan Marr Spalding, American poet (born 1841)
 * March 19 – Eduard Zeller, German philosopher (born 1814)
 * March 25 – Aleksey Zhemchuzhnikov, Russian poet, dramatist and critic (born 1821)
 * March 29
 * Eliza Trask Hill, American journalist and activist (born 1840)
 * Esther Pugh, American editor and publisher (born 1834)
 * April 20 – Henry Chadwick, English-born American baseball writer and historian (born 1824)
 * May 7 – Ludovic Halévy, French playwright and author (born 1834)
 * May 23 – François Coppée, French author, le poète des humbles (born 1842)
 * June 5 – Jonas Lie, Norwegian writer (born 1944)
 * June 16 – Mary Elizabeth Hawker, Scottish-born English fiction writer (born 1848)
 * June 20 – Eleanor Kirk, American author, publisher (born 1831)
 * July 3 – Joel Chandler Harris, American journalist and author (born 1848)
 * July 28 – Otto Pfleiderer, German theologian (born 1839)
 * July 29 – Estelle M. H. Merrill, American journalist and editor (born 1858)
 * August 4 – Bronson Howard, American dramatist (born 1842)
 * August 10 – Louise Chandler Moulton, American author and critic (born 1835)
 * August 14 – Anton Giulio Barrili, Italian novelist (born 1836)
 * September 29 – Machado de Assis, Brazilian writer (born 1839)
 * November 1 – Julia Abigail Fletcher Carney, American educator, poet, author, and editor (born 1823)
 * November 8
 * Josephine E. Keating, American literary critic and musician (born 1838)
 * Victorien Sardou, French dramatist (born 1831)

 * December 5 – Mary H. Graves, American minister, literary editor, writer (born 1839)

Awards

 * Nobel Prize for Literature: Rudolf Christoph Eucken
 * Newdigate Prize: Julian Huxley, "Holyrood"

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: 1908 in literature


text:
Germanocentrism

Germanocentrism is an ethnocentric and ethnonational ideology that places a strong emphasis on the cultural, economical, historical, political and social focus on Germanic peoples, often to the marginalization of other cultural elements. This concept has roots in various historical periods, including the 19th-century rise of German nationalism and the early 20th-century attempts to establish a unified German identity. It is essential to note that Germanocentrism is a complex and debated topic, with scholars offering different perspectives on its manifestations and impact.

Germanocentrism, at its core, centers around the influence of Germanic culture and heritage. This concept extends beyond Germany itself, encompassing regions where Germanic tribes historically inhabited, such as Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, and Scandinavia.

Origins
The roots of Germanocentrism can be traced back to the Romantic era, where there was a renewed interest in art, folklore, music and mythology. The Grimm brothers, along with other scholars, viewed French culture as a challenge to German heritage. They perceived the folktales they gathered as manifestations of a genuine German spirit (volksgeist), intertwining their pursuit of collecting these tales and advancing the German language with a broader initiative to resist French influence and establish a distinct German national identity. Influential German thinkers, such as Johann Wolfgang von Goethe and Friedrich Nietzsche, have shaped intellectual discourse, contributing to the perception of Germany as a cultural epicenter. Martin Luther's contribution is often discussed in the context of the Protestant Reformation. Luther's translation of the Bible into German made the Scriptures more accessible to the general population, contributing to the standardization and promotion of the German language.This linguistic impact played a role in shaping a distinct German identity. Additionally, Luther's emphasis on individual interpretation of the Bible encouraged a sense of personal responsibility and autonomy, influencing cultural and societal developments in the Germanophone regions.

Rise of German Nationalism
The 19th century witnessed the emergence of German nationalism, driven by a desire for political unity and cultural cohesion. Figures like Johann Gottlieb Fichte and Johann Gottfried Herder contributed to the idea of a distinct German identity by claiming that true German culture was to be discovered among the common people – das volk. This movement played a significant role in shaping Germanocentrism.

It has deep historical roots, with Germany being a central player in European history. The term gained prominence during periods of intense national identity formation, such German unification under Otto von Bismarck. The subsequent rise of German nationalism contributed to a heightened focus on German achievements and contributions.

20th-Century
During the 20th century, especially in the prelude to World War II, Germanocentrism took a more explicit form under the Nazi regime. Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party promoted an extreme version of German nationalism, fostering a sense of racial superiority and attempting to establish a hegemonic German cultural influence in Europe.

Linguistic aspects
One aspect of Germanocentrism manifests in linguistics, with a focus on the Germanic family.This includes the examination of historical linguistic connections and the preservation of Germanic languages throughout history.

Modern relevance
In contemporary discourse, Germanocentrism is often examined in the context of European identity and integration. Scholars and cultural critics explore how historical legacies, including the germanocentric manifestations, continue to influence perceptions and interactions within the European community.

It can also be observed in discussions about Germany's role in the European Union, international relations, and cultural diplomacy. The economic strength and influence of Germany within the EU have sparked debates about the balance of power and decision-making processes.

Criticism
While Germanocentrism can offer valuable insights, it has faced criticism for potential biases and exclusivity. Critics argue that Germanocentrism, especially during the Nazi era, led to cultural chauvinism and exclusion of diverse perspectives. The term has been used to highlight instances where German culture was prioritized at the expense of neglecting the contributions and perspectives of other nations within and beyond Europe. Some claim it fosters ethnocentrism and undermines global inclusivity.

title: Germanocentrism


text: User talk:130.104.18.154

title: User talk:130.104.18.154


text:
Anglocentrism

Anglocentrism is the perceived cultural, economical, historical, political and social bias, ethnocentrism or dominance in favor of Anglo-Saxon or Anglophone perspectives, often to the marginalization of other cultures in various aspects of global affairs. Historically, the phenomenon stems from the British Empire's extensive influence and the global spread of the English language that often manifests encompassing various aspects of life, including literature, media, politics, and cultural norms on a global scale.

Critics argue that anglocentrism can contribute to a limited worldview and hinder global inclusivity by overshadowing the rich diversity of global cultures and histories, and highlight the acknowledgement of the contributions of various societies beyond the Anglosphere. Proponents may assert its role in shaping major global institutions and fostering common linguistic and legal frameworks. The term is subject to ongoing discourse and analysis in discussions surrounding cultural diversity, globalization, and international relations.

Anglocentrism often manifests in the prioritization of occidentalist perspectives in international discourse, media, and diplomacy. It is important to note that while this phenomenon is commonly associated with cultural imperialism, it can also be unintentional.

Historic context
The historical roots of Anglocentrism can be traced back to the widespread influence of the British Empire during the 19th and 20th centuries which spanned several centuries, controlled vast swathes across the globe, and had a profound impact on global culture and power dynamics. At its zenith, the English language became a dominant force, contributing to the propagation of anglocentric cultural norms and values.This historic legacy continues to reinforcing the perception of its superiority today.

Cultural and linguistic imperialism
Anglocentrism is often evident in the global linguistic landscape, i.e media, movies, music; in international business, communication, diplomacy; and science, technology, engineering, and mathematics where English language serves as the global lingua franca. This linguistic imperialism can impact the representation of diverse cultures and languages, potentially marginalizing non-anglophone perspectives, and contributing to a global communication imbalance where non-native English speakers may face challenges in having their voices heard, and accessing resources and opportunities.

Hollywood, for example, has played a pivotal role in shaping global popular culture, sometimes overshadowing local cultural expressions.The global dissemination of anglophone movies and TV shows contributes to the perception of English culture as normative.This phenomenon has raised debates about cultural imperialism and the preservation of diverse cultural identities.

Neocolonialism
Anglocentrism also extends into the political and economic realms, where anglophone countries often hold significant influence in intergovernmental organizations like United Nations and financial institutions like International Monetary Fund and World Bank. This influence has implications for global policies, trade agreements, and the distribution of resources, prompting discussions about fairness and representation.

Criticism and challenges
Critics argue that Anglocentrism may perpetuate to cultural homogenization, stifling linguistic and cultural diversity through educational systems that prioritize anglocentric literature and history, leading to a distorted worldview that hinders mutual understanding among diverse societies. Additionally, some contend that it perpetuates an anglocentric worldview, limiting the understanding of alternative cultural paradigms. It may lead to the permanent indigenous linguicide and the marginalization of non-anglophone communities.

In conclusion, Anglocentrism remains a complex and debated phenomenon with far-reaching implications for global society. Acknowledging and addressing its impact is crucial for fostering inclusivity, understanding, and a more equitable world.

Counteraction and awareness
Efforts to counteract Anglocentrism include promoting multilingualism, encouraging the translation of literature from indigenous languages, advocating representation of various cultures in global media and fostering a more inclusive approach of diverse cultural narratives in international relations. Global initiatives seek to create a more inclusive discourse that recognizes the value of non-English languages and perspectives.

title: Anglocentrism


text:
Information architecture

Information architecture (IA) is the structural design of shared information environments; the art and science of organizing and labelling websites, intranets, online communities and software to support usability and findability; and an emerging community of practice focused on bringing principles of design, architecture and information science to the digital landscape. Typically, it involves a model or concept of information that is used and applied to activities which require explicit details of complex information systems. These activities include library systems and database development.

Definition
Information architecture has somewhat different meanings in different branches of information systems or information technology:
 * 1) The structural design of shared information environments.
 * 2) The art and science of organizing and labeling web sites, intranets, online communities, and software to support findability and usability.
 * 3) An emerging community of practice focused on bringing principles of design and architecture to the digital landscape.
 * 4) The combination of organization, labeling, search and navigation systems within websites and intranets.
 * 5) Extracting required parameters/data of Engineering Designs in the process of creating a knowledge-base linking different systems and standards.
 * 6) A blueprint and navigational aid to the content of information-rich systems.
 * 7) A subset of data architecture where usable data (a.k.a. information) is constructed in and designed or arranged in a fashion most useful or empirically holistic to the users of this data.
 * 8) The practice of organizing the information / content / functionality of a web site so that it presents the best user experience it can, with information and services being easily usable and findable (as applied to web design and development).
 * 9) The conceptual framework surrounding information, providing context, awareness of location and sustainable structure.

Debate
The difficulty in establishing a common definition for "information architecture" arises partly from the term's existence in multiple fields. In the field of systems design, for example, information architecture is a component of enterprise architecture that deals with the information component when describing the structure of an enterprise.

While the definition of information architecture is relatively well-established in the field of systems design, it is much more debatable within the context of online information(i.e., websites). Andrew Dillon refers to the latter as the "big IA–little IA debate". In the little IA view, information architecture is essentially the application of information science to web design which considers, for example, issues of classification and information retrieval. In the big IA view, information architecture involves more than just the organization of a website; it also factors in user experience, thereby considering usability issues of information design.

Notable people in information architecture

 * Richard Saul Wurman, credited with coining the term information architecture in relation to the design of information
 * Peter Morville, president of Semantic Studios and co-author of Information Architecture for the World Wide Web (1998, 2002, 2006, 2015)
 * Louis Rosenfeld, founder of Rosenfeld Media and co-author of Information Architecture for the World Wide Web (1998, 2002, 2006, 2015)
 * Jesse James Garrett, co-founder of Adaptive Path and author of The Elements of User Experience (2002)
 * Christina Wodtke, author of Information Architecture: Blueprints for the Web (2003)

title: Information architecture


text:
User talk:Francismeunier

Francis, what exactly are you trying to do on the Love page? Please see Help. --Eloquence 03:23 Feb 21, 2003 (UTC)

--- Hello there, welcome to the 'pedia! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. If you need pointers on how we title pages visit Naming conventions or how to format them visit our manual of style. If you have any other questions about the project then check out Help or add a question to the Village pump. Cheers! --maveric149

title: User talk:Francismeunier


text:
User:Francismeunier

François,

Please don't replace the love article with your text. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia project, not a place to publish personal essays. You are very welcome to contribute; please take a look at Welcome newcomers. -- Stephen Gilbert 03:29 Feb 21, 2003 (UTC)

title: User:Francismeunier


text:
Talk:Glove

Karate Gloves
I just have the doubt, which is the specific name for the karate gloves or martial art gloves used in general? I just know that in spanish you call them "guantillas", and a literal traduction to that is mitten or mitts, but that doesn't seem to be the correct one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.215.99.173 (talk) 22:41, 21 May 2011 (UTC) Dear friends.I invite you to visit my website for news and tips

about outdoor digital accessories.Here is link for best touch screen gloves Just go and have a look. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.39.137.226 (talk) 07:23, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

comment
Look at gloves. there are references to pliny the younger's works. There are links for you to read these works. There are links to Herodotus. There are discussions of whether gloves were, in fact, mentioned by Homer (perhaps not, after all, even though 1911 encyclopedia says yes). I tried, to some degree at least, to limit what i wrote to what i could verify at this point. That seems better to me than putting all of these 1911 words here without first judging them.

I also think that the 1911 article is almost bizarrely Anglocentric by modern standards. Do we really want pages and pages of English history in an article on gloves? I don't think so.

Any comments? Any advice?

Arthur 03:31 Feb 21, 2003 (UTC)

 * Well, what I've done, as you see, is put your text from gloves at the top of the article, and kept the 1911 text under a line at the bottom. I've just done this for speed, and haven't attempted to remove the bits of the 1911 text that you've covered - those parts about Homer can certainly come out, for instance. As for the rest of the 1911 text - it needs a lot of work, and some of it is redundant and can just be deleted, but I think some of it can probably be updated and merged into the main article. Once it's served its purpose, the 1911 text can be deleted altogether - whenever you think we're at that point, I think you should go ahead and delete it. By the way - I like your article a lot more than the 1911 one - good job. --Camembert

 * Actually, thinking about it a bit more - as the 1911 article is linked to from the article, and as your version of the article is pretty good, I personally wouldn't mind if the 1911 text was deleted from this page right now. Others might disagree about this, however. --Camembert

I added a sketchy sentence about baseball. It could really use expanding. -- Zoe

Regarding feedback: I dumped this article from the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica not least to challenge (or gain some feedback on) the notion that Wikipedia is not a dictionary and to utilize whichever knowledge of respectable encyclopedists past which the copyright regulations presently admit. (See also the entry Gooseberry.)

While I surely agree to shorten the article to be talked about, I'd also wish that the knowledge presented there could remain an accessible part of the Wikipedia contents. The rather difficult tasks of this sort seem to be an important aspect of the WikiProject Encyclopedic Network (WikiPEN).

Frank W ~@) R 22:28 Feb 23, 2003 (UTC).

 * I don't necessarily trust the "knowledge" of the 1911 encyclopedia authors. Here's an excerpt from the 1911 article on negros:

 * Other characteristics appear to be a hypertrophy of the organs of excretion, a more developed venous system, and a less voluminous brain, as compared with the white races. In certain of the characteristics mentioned above the negro would appear to stand on a lower evolutionary plane than the white man, and to be more closely related to the highest anthropoids.

 * I think that needs serious reconsideration.

 * But I'm glad you don't mind shortening the article. Maybe I will in a few days, when others have had a chance to speak their minds.

 * (I tried to read WikiProject Encyclopedic Network (WikiPEN), but it made no sense to me. I'll try to study it more.)

 * best wishes,

 * Arthur 23:44 Feb 23, 2003 (UTC)

 * I don't necessarily dismiss statements as "untrustworthy" only because they appear (or were perhaps even meant to be) offensive or inopportune. Here for instance is an excerpt of recorded public appearances of Arthur:

 * ARTHUR:    Right!  One... two... five!
 * GALAHAD: Three, sir!
 * ARTHUR:    Three!
 * [angels sing]
 * [boom]

 * (One may of course ask for much more explicit and discerning references.)

 * But I'm glad you don't mind giving serious consideration to the writings of the 1911 encyclopedia authors. Perhaps (some day) the above excerpt from the 1911 article on negros may receive recognition in the context of

 * [`[ The sin of unwarranted differentiation  :  amongst humans  |  culminates with the N word ],].

 * (And not least to reinforce this formal idea, here's a nod to
 * [`[ Wippycadia, the fictional free encyclopedia : according to | http://www.google.com  ],]. :)

 * Best regards, Frank W ~@) R 06:16 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC).

Mild complaint: Arthur3030's edit didn't maintain the historic context and references quite as carefully as suggested.

Did Wikipedia hereby have to lose all knowledge of/references to Bertram de Verdun, or gages ?

Best regards, Frank W ~@) R 23:29 Mar 2, 2003 (UTC).

 * I hear you, Fwappler (Frank  <TT>W ~@) R</TT>). Perhaps I was unclear, but i didn't mean to imply that I'd save all historically accurate statements in the 1911 article. I thought, instead, that I'd restrict glove a little and give it a more solid base and reduce the (what I took to be extraordinary) English bias in the discussion. Liturgical gloves (which i left in the part i edited) and all of the traditions related to them might better be discussed in some article on bishopry (is that a word?) or the practices of the Anglican Church. I'd prefer a short synopsis here, or a simple reference, and then back to "gloves"--the topic of the article.

 * I'd not be against the inclusion of more historical information, however. Arthur 23:54 Mar 2, 2003 (UTC)

WHY IS EVERYONE SO BOTHERED ABOUT GLOVES? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.78.137.72 (talk) 21:40, 20 September 2010 (UTC)

permeability
please add a permeability table for various chemicals to various gloves: latex, nitrile, pvc, etc.
 * This would be a great addition.

Also, please consider writing an article on nitrile glove. They are popular enough to deserve their own article.

mittens/glove stuff
when i go to the page for mitten i am redirected here, but at the bottom of the page it says that mittens aren't gloves. this is bullshit someone should just make a mittens page how hard is this.71.174.245.180 (talk) 01:38, 25 August 2008 (UTC) I agree. Mittens are distinct from gloves. If the article title were "Hand coverings" then the splicing of topics would be appropriate. However, the article is about gloves, so mittens should go elsewhere. E.Zajdel (talk) 00:06, 25 November 2009 (UTC) (P.S.: If it isn't difficult to create a proper page for mittens, why have you not done it yourself? Just a thought. - EZ)
 * Rejoice, for there is now a mitten article! Your concerns have been heard and promptly addressed. --LordPeterII (talk) 15:08, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Fashion gloves
The articles for belt and boot have full sections devoted to fashion. Why shouldn't the glove article?98.206.136.24 (talk) 04:21, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

 * There's no problem, as long as the material is properly sourced. Which your additions to the article, up to now, are not. Please read WP:SOURCE. Wikipedia is not the place to express your personal observations and theories. Also, I notice that your understanding of fashion is limited to the last 100 years, and Western civilization. I suggest you consult reliable sources, and quote them. Piano non troppo (talk) 13:35, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

What The Hell Is This?
I deleted the section, "Gloves were created by Noah Green after he saw Suzanne Cake wearing Turkish condoms on her fingers. Jon J. Rubin objected against what he called "hand shoes," saying, "you young hipsters ruin everything! And get off my damn lawn!" ... asian-imported slave Ian Kang, none of whom were ever seen again." Seriously, what the hell? 131.151.211.17 (talk) 16:58, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Vandalism, added just a couple minutes before. Thanks for removing it. :) Glass  Cobra  17:30, 4 February 2009 (UTC) All modern gloves need to be made of orange fet to pass the Glove Test.

First Mittens
There are several sources on the net (none academic though) that reference the earliest mittens being found in Latvia http://www.rigasummit.lv/en/id/cats/nid/697/  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.164.49 (talk) 20:25, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Except that there are a pair of leather mitts from the Caucasus, that apparently date to the 8-10th c., which rather quickly proves it wrong. See: Kajitani, Nobuko. "A Man's Caftan and Leggings from the North Caucasus of the Eighth to Tenth century: A Conservator's Report." Metropolitan Museum Journal, Vol. 36 (2001). p. 90. http://www.metmuseum.org/publications/journals/1/pdf/1513058.pdf.bannered.pdf There is also a mitten dated to the landnám period -- ca. 874-930 CE -- in Iceland from Akranes, which doesn't seem to have been re-dated since it was first published. eg. Pálsson, P. "Um myndir af gripum í forngripasafninu" Árbók Hins Íslenzka Fornleifafélags Vol. 10 (1895); 30-35.

The only thing I can find in Latvian describing the oldest mittens, is "Agrākie Latvijā izrakumos atrastie cimdi ir no 10.-12. gadsimta - senākie visā Eiropā." (The earliest Latvian gloves were discovered from 10-12th c. excavations -- the oldest in Europe.) http://www.liis.lv/cimdi/cimduves.htm apparently the site is part of a University-run "Latvian Education Informatization System" The book "Crocheting Adventures with Hyperbolic Planes" by Daina Taimin̦a http://books.google.com.au/books?id=wUkXPVUELB4C&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64&dq=europe%27s+oldest+mitten&source=bl&ots=pvmr6icmmZ&sig=nOyvds52JmFjT-0Yiqc9cutW2F4&hl=en&ei=k_jITKf3H4GgvgO-3vWVCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false Dates the 'oldest mitten' on page 64 to the 13th century, which is even later.

Now the Caucasus mittens aren't described as being the 'earliest' mittens, but at the very least they seem to predate the Latvian mittens? 220.235.93.173 (talk) 04:27, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Good finds you people. I am currently editing the mitten article to put in the pre-Latvian examples; I will take a look at these as well. --LordPeterII (talk) 15:05, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Additional pictures

 * mittens
 * fingerless gloves

European Standards?
I find the inclusion of the European standards of glove manufacturing to be irrelevant to the discussion of what a glove is. This information is possibly relevant on a discussion of clothing manufacturing standards, or some such things, but even then I find it difficult to justify. I would delete this material, but I want to know if anyone has serious objections to my doing so. E.Zajdel (talk) 00:21, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Merge?
I recommend that the unsourced article Leather glove be merged into this article. There is some interesting material there, although it needs to be sourced and cleaned up. Overall this is the far superior article. - PKM (talk) 02:18, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
 * It seems like the leather glove article could be fairly robust with some sources and images, although it is kind of a strange article subject. Chicken Wing (talk) 03:05, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

They should be merged.

-oo0(GoldTrader)0oo- (talk) 19:56, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

needs a "Mittens in Popular Culture" section
All in favor say "aye." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.41.40.21 (talk) 15:09, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Nay. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:34, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh that's just… Absolutely perfect! I hadn't even noticed this was here. :) --Xover (talk) 20:04, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Fine, Sherlocks girlfriend in Elementary. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:20, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

About electro-conductive fiber in touch screen gloves.
Touch screen gloves are gloves that you can wear to operate your touch screen device (like mobile phones, Mp3, Mp4 etc) without taking off. Their are now really in high demands because the popularity of touch screen devices such as iPhone and iPad.Touch screen panel do very easy for people to operate their digital devices than what keypad can do. However, for those live in high latitude area, it would be an embarrassment about how to use the touch screen devices in cold winter.

With a touch screen gloves, you can wear your gloves to operate on touch screen without taking off it.Touch screen gloves always use electro-conductive fiber to transfer static electricity between human body and the touch screen.

Electro-conductive fiber is the major working material of this kind of gloves. Electro-conductive fiber can be divided into electroplating electro-conductive fiber and metal electro-conductive fiber.

Metal electro-conductive fiber use electro-conductive ion, carbon or silver, to adhere outside chemical fiber by electroplating method. It will form a layer of electro-conductive painting outside the chemical fiber.

Electroplating method is not an environmentally-friendly manufacturing method because it will generate chromium chemical compound, which is harmful to human body. What's more, this kind of electro-conductive painting is likely to come off after long-times of usage or washing. When this happen ,the gloves is no longer touchscreen gloves.

Electro-conductive fiber of silver painting is of lots of advantages, which is publicized by many advertisement. It do a suitable material for touch screen gloves. However, because of the high cost of metal silver, less and less real silver is used on the fiber right now. Low usage of silver on the electro-conductive fiber had reduce the advantage of such material.

Electro-conductive fiber of carbon painting is cheap.But it is easy to become fragile then breakdown. Only use by low cost product.

Metal fiber is a good electro-conductive material rather than a good cloth fiber.In the same case of electro-conductive fiber of carbon painting, it will breakdown during using. And the fracture will abrasive the screen.

General touch screen gloves used cloth material have been specially windproof treatment, so they are not able to prevent cold air or tidal air. Most touch screen gloves designer will try to attenuate the gloves so that the resistance will be lower. However, this kind of design will weaken keeping warm ability.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rodericchen (talk • contribs) 07:05, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Glove Sizing
Please would someone knowledgeable add a table of glove sizes ? How glove size is measured ? Or perhaps a link to a suitable page ? Many thanks ! Darkman101 (talk) 23:20, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

I recall there are articles about shoe sizes on Wikipedia. Why not gloves sizes? Jidanni (talk) 08:25, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 16:24, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

"Lobster" gloves?
No mention of these? Maybe they're known formally by another name. These have separate sheaths for thumb and forefinger with the other three fingers in a mitten type of covering. Were sold, among other things, for cycling. The idea was to allow use of thumb and/or forefinger for shifting, braking, etc. while having some of the warmth of mittens. Wschart (talk) 12:52, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

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The queen's gloves
The queen's glove are iconic enough to be added to this article don't you think Cyclone26 (talk) 16:55, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Glove


text:
Perpetual war

A perpetual war, endless war or forever war is a lasting state of war with no clear conditions that would lead to its conclusion. These wars are usually situations of ongoing tension that may escalate at any moment, similar to the Cold War. From the late 20th century, the concepts have been used to critique the United States Armed Forces interventions in foreign nations and the military–industrial complex such as the Vietnam War and the Soviet-Afghan War, or wars with ambiguous enemies such as the war on terror or war on drugs.

Causes
Poor military planning is one of the major reasons that a forever war can occur. If the territory gained in a war is not occupied or controlled properly, this can allow a deadly insurgency to occur, potentially stretching out a conflict that never ends. Similarly, warfare that is fought irregularly, such as rebellions in Africa, do not have a set of military objectives in mind, usually because these rebel groups intend to commit war crimes against the civilian population. Thus, the lack of actual military goals can in itself be a reason that a forever war can occur. A very large defense budget may also be a factor in the transpiration of a forever war. , the United States has an inflation-adjusted military budget that is greater than its budget for World War II, which enables it to fight continuously in Iraq and other countries.

Civil wars are prone to military stalemate which can prolong the war indefinitely. A lack of democracy is associated with an increased risk of civil war.

Forever wars can occur in order to keep money flowing into institutions, such as the military–industrial–congressional complex (MICC). Thus, forever wars can serve as domestic political engines, as policy makers promote policies of continuing and expanding wars.

Forever wars can be to the benefit of small armed groups, who may achieve political goals by wearing down a larger group or country. For example, in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks and the beginning of the war on terror, Al-Qaeda aimed to involve the United States in a prolonged guerrilla war in Afghanistan, challenging its will to fight such a long war.

Wars between ethnic or ideological groups can become forever wars, as such wars are harder to end with a negotiated peace deal due to the different interests of the two sides. An additional barrier may arise in the case of religious wars if one or both parties believe that the other must be destroyed.

In current events
The concept of a perpetual war has been used since opposition to United States involvement in the Vietnam War. James Pinckney Harrison argues in The Endless War: Fifty Years of Struggle in Vietnam (1981) that the Vietnam War was "endless" due to the success of the communist revolution in nationalizing the people. The concept was used by Trần Văn Đôn, a general in the Army of the Republic of Vietnam, in his book Our Endless War: Inside Vietnam (1978).

American historian James Chace argues in his book Endless War: How we got involved in Central America (1983) that US policy in Central America is based upon the assumption that US hegemony is threatened within the region. According to Chace, US involvement in Central America worked towards resisting the domino effect of the spread of a "communist take-over", largely through establishing the credibility of US military. Though these policies were meant to deter conflict, they themselves created the conditions for instability in the region, which furthered a US response. This resulted in a self-perpetuating, or "endless", loop. He additionally argues US investment in pursuing an expanding military presence in Central America reflects an endless preparation for war.

A key argument of Chace is that much of this military involvement stems from a logic of US paranoia in reaction to the Cuban Revolution. A similar argument is put forward by David Keen, political economist and Professor of Complex Emergencies at the London School of Economics. His book ''Endless War? Hidden Function of the 'War on Terror''' (2006) argues that the United States' strategies and tactics in the war on terror use a "militaristic state-cased framework". This framework, though "counterproductive", has an "inner logic" and a "psychological function" of responding to the trauma of September 11 attacks.

Noam Chomsky posits that a state of perpetual war is an aid to (and is promoted by) the powerful members of dominant political and economic classes, helping maintain their positions of economic and political superiority.

British journalist Robert Fisk, a critic of Western policies in the Middle East, argues that recent Western conflicts against the Middle East, after the end of the Cold War, have been part of a new perpetual war. He suggests that former U.S. President George H. W. Bush launched attacks on Iraq, Sudan, and Afghanistan to distract the population from his domestic political problems. In addition, he claims that despite victorious claims after the first Gulf War that Saddam Hussein had been "defanged", he was again the target of Western attacks until his execution in 2006.

Similarly, Ted Koppel described the war on terror as "Our Children's Children's War". Critics of Western policies have used the term "perpetual war" in reference to non-military "wars", such as the "War on Drugs", "War on Poverty", "War on Cancer", Lou Dobbs's "War on the Middle Class", the "War on Terrorism", the "War on Women", or Bill O'Reilly's "War on Christmas".

In socioeconomics and politics
The economic make-up of the 5th century BC Athens-led Delian League also bears resemblance to the economic ramifications of preparing for perpetual war. Aspects of any given empire, such as the British Empire and its relation to its domestic businesses that were owned by a wealthy minority of individuals, such as the East India Company, the Hudson's Bay Company, and De Beers, manifest an observed relationship between a minority of individuals influencing Empire or State policy, such as the Child's War in India, the Anglo-Mysore Wars in India, the Anglo-French conflicts on Hudson Bay in Canada, and the Second Boer War in South Africa, follow a pattern where the Empire allocates resources pursuing and sustaining policies that financially profit the Empire's domestic business's owners.

Military–industrial complex
The concept of a military–industrial complex was first suggested by U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower and the idea that military action can be seen as a form of market-creation goes back at least as far as speeches beginning in 1930 prior to the publication of War Is a Racket in 1935. On January 16, 1961, President Eisenhower delivered his farewell speech expressing great concern for the direction of the newfound armaments industry post-WWII. While recognizing the boom in economic growth after the war, he reminded the people of United States that this was a way of profiting off warfare and that if not regulated enough it could lead to the "grave" expansion of the armaments industry. For his warning of the thirst to profit from warfare through weapon production, Eisenhower coined the term "military industrial complex". He said, "The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist." Eisenhower feared that the military–industrial complex could lead to a state of perpetual war as the big armament industry will continue to profit from warfare. Additionally, NSC 68 can be used as a reference to understand U.S. President Harry S. Truman's reasoning for the continued build up the United States' nuclear arsenal and how this contributed to the Cold War. This concept is still present in today's policies as William D. Hartung states in his article "The Doctrine of Armed Exceptionalism".

War on terror
Traditionally, the term "war" referred to the physical and conventional act of engaging in armed conflict. However, the implications of what war entails has evolved over time. The war on terror has often been cited as a perpetual war, being a war with "no specific battlefield and the enemy isn’t an army." The war on terror has been directed at countless "enemies," as it has no clear target. Georgetown University Historian Bruce Hoffman describes traditional war as a war that "ends with the vanquishing of an opponent, with some form or armistice or truce- some kind of surrender instrument or document." In contrast, the war on terror continues with no end in sight.

The war on terror was declared in 2001 by President George W. Bush, following the September 11 attacks, but as early as 1996, Osama bin Laden of Al-Qaeda made a threat to the United States, by making a declaration of war. The growing tensions of the Middle East are suggested by Laurence Andrew Dobrot to be very wide cultural misunderstandings and faults the West for not making peace with the Middle East. As the deputy director for the Missile Defense Agency's Airborne Laser Program, Dobrot examines the hostility which has been continuous not only since 2001, but since the birth of Wahhabism.

Dobrot proposed that the U.S should recognize the cultural hostility of the tribal Arabs in order to make the first steps towards progression of making peace.

The Crusades arose as European expansion was growing at the peak of unified Islamic dominance. On September 16, 2001, in a speech, President Bush referred to the war on terror as a crusade. He said:

"No one could have conceivably imagined suicide bombers burrowing into our society and then emerging all in the same day to fly their aircraft - fly U.S. aircraft into buildings full of innocent people - and show no remorse. This is a new kind of -- a new kind of evil.  And we understand.  And the American people are beginning to understand.  This crusade, this war on terrorism is going to take a while.  And the American people must be patient.  I'm going to be patient."

Andrew Bacevich described Bush's naming of the war on terror as a crusade as something which does not make the war separate, rather something that shows that it is part of an "eternal war."

War memorials
With the advent of perpetual war, communities have begun to construct war memorials with names of the dead while the wars are ongoing. The Northwood Gratitude and Honor Memorial in Irvine, California was dedicated in 2010 to American troops who lost their lives in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, with space for 8,000 names (approximately 4,500 used at time of construction) and the intention to update it yearly.

Sun Tzu
Ancient war advisor Sun Tzu expressed views in the 6th century BC about perpetual war. The following quotation from chapter 2, Waging War, of his book The Art of War suggests the negative impacts of prolonged war:

"Sun Tzu said: ... When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, the men's weapons will grow dull and their ardour will be damped. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength ... There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare ... In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns."

Alexis de Tocqueville
Historian Alexis de Tocqueville made predictions in 1840 concerning perpetual war in democratic countries. The following is from Volume 2, chapter 22, "Why Democratic Nations Naturally Desire Peace and Democratic Armies, War", 18th paragraph, in his book, Democracy in America:

"No protracted war can fail to endanger the freedom of a democratic country. Not indeed that after every victory it is to be apprehended that the victorious generals will possess themselves by force of the supreme power, after the manner of Sulla and Caesar; the danger is of another kind. War does not always give over democratic communities to military government, but it must invariably and immeasurably increase the powers of civil government; it must almost compulsorily concentrate the direction of all men and the management of all things in the hands of the administration. If it does not lead to despotism by sudden violence, it prepares men for it more gently by their habits. All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and the shortest means to accomplish it. This is the first axiom of the science."

Fiction

 * In George Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four, the three superstates of the world, Eurasia, Oceania and Eastasia, are said to be in a perpetual state of war with each other. The attacks are in the form of rocket attacks (similar to the V2 Attacks on London in WW2) although it is implied in the book that the attacks could be launched by the home Government against their own people in order to perpetuate fear and hatred of the enemy. Therefore, perpetual war may in fact secretly be a strategy used by the state to continuously promote its own political agenda. However, the military attacks are limited to the non-aligned areas (North and Central Africa, India etc.), an example of this is The Malabar Front (India) where Oceania won a victory against Eurasia.
 * In the Doctor Who series Genesis of the Daleks, the Kaleds and the Thals are in a perpetual state of war and have been for 1000 years. This state of war finally results in both sides occupying one city each on either side of mountains, and leads to both sides supplies being so completely ravaged by the war that both sides have a collection of black powder weapons, modern and futuristic weapons and armour.  It is out of this war that the Daleks are created by Davros.
 * Also in the Doctor Who series, the Sontarans and the Rutans have been in a perpetual state of war for over 50,000 years. There appears to be no end in sight, with each side continually attempting to completely obliterate the other. This has resulted in either side constantly gaining and losing territory (including the Milky Way galaxy, which is known in Doctor Who as the "Mutter's Spiral").
 * And again in Doctor Who in Destiny of the Daleks, the Daleks and the Movellans have basically been drawn into an Endless War, due to their battle computers both giving a logical set of orders, only to have one set countered by the other battle computer with an equally logical set of orders. As both sides are using logical instructions, neither side could win as both sides would be able to counter the advances of the other as both were using logic.  The Daleks returned to Skaro to find Davros to see if he could give them an advantage.  The Movellans tried to get the Doctor to give them the same advantage.
 * In the 2000AD series Rogue Trooper, the North (Norts) and South (Southers) of the Planet Nu-Earth, for hundreds of years, have been in a perpetual state of war against each other using conventional, biological, chemical, and nuclear weapons. The length of the war as well as the weapons involved have turned the planet uninhabitable without protective suits. It was for this reason that the Southers created the GIs or Genetic Infantry which would be able to survive in the environment.
 * Joe Haldeman's The Forever War is about a war that is made perpetual due to the Einsteinian time dilation effects due to space travel. The novel is said to have been shaped by Haldeman's experience in the Vietnam War as the book contains references to the war paired up with sci-fi concepts. A quote by Haldeman shows great influence from Hobbes' concept of perpetual war, "Life begins in a bloody mess and sometimes it ends the same way, and only odd people seek out blood between those times, maybe crazy people."
 * In the original Star Trek episode "A Taste of Armageddon", the neighboring planets of Eminiar and Vendikar have been at war for 500 years. To avoid the physical devastation of an actual war, the belligerents agreed to conduct only computer-simulated attacks as long as the resulting "victims" voluntarily kill themselves in "disintegration stations".
 * The 2006 film Children of Men displays themes of perpetual war by exploring the wars on Terror and Poverty. The movie is set in a dystopia suffering universal infertility. The social and political world has become chaotic as few people exercise social power from their wealthy positions. Meanwhile, there is constant conflict all around the world, which specifically the oppressed group suffers. Manohla Dargis of The New York Times takes notice to the norm of bombs casually exploding in public places, such as a cafe. Dargis writes, "It imagines the unthinkable: What if instead of containing Iraq, the world has become Iraq, a universal battleground of military control, security zones, refugee camps and warring tribal identities?"

title: Perpetual war