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Talk:Return of the Jedi

Palpatine's Death
George Lucas says PALPATINE DIED. He is apparently upset Disney brought the Character back in this way: https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/george-lucas-reportedly-unhappy-palpatines-return-star-wars-rise-skywalker/

Straight from Ian McDiarmid's mouth: https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/1114632/Star-Wars-9-Rise-of-Skywalker-Ian-McDiarmid-Palpatine-death-George-Lucas-Phantom-Menace

The subsequent non-lucas sequel should be ignored, at least until the movie comes out and fully clarifies it's "Return of Palpatine" plot points, since it's likely he will remain having died in Jedi(it will likely be some kind of ressurection or a clone or a hologram). Colliric (talk) 11:31, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

 * From the perspective of Return of the Jedi we don't actually know Palpatine's fate. He got thrown down a shaft but we don't actually know his ultimate fate, the movie doesn't tell us. Canterbury Tail talk 12:55, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * The consensus version has been, for years, that the Emperor died. He’s dead. We’ll see what happens in the Rise of Skywalker, but as of right now the film is not out. Toa Nidhiki05 13:41, 11 December 2019 (UTC)
 * The word death has swung back and forth constantly over the years for this article according to the history, we've never talked or reached a consensus on it. The article actually needs to abide by WP:FILMPLOT so we can only describe what is seen on screen. Palpatine's death is actually extrapolation, interpretive original research, as it's not in the movie or mentioned in the movie. Note, I've been ignoring anything about the new movie so I don't know what the talk about him in relation to that is about. I'm basing this purely on Return of the Jedi and we don't see Palpatine die, and no one mentions it. As a result unless we have a reliable source supporting that he dies, we cannot actually say he dies, just describe what happens on screen. Canterbury Tail talk 13:59, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

What happens on screen is that HE DIES. He gets thrown into the shaft and we see bolts of electricity shoot back up the shaft and then the Death Star gets blown to smitherines with his body still somewhere inside it. Luke barely has enough time to escape himself. We can say he DIES. Colliric (talk) 16:35, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

 * Problem here is we don’t see him die. We don’t know what the shaft energy is and as Wikipedia editors we’re prohibited from making the assumption he dies in the Death Star explosion. All we can do is explain what we see on screen with zero interpretation, analysis or connecting of dots. This is a core tenant of this project in general, we can’t say what isn’t on screen. As editors it’s against the project in general to interpret. We can say he was thrown down the shaft. We can say there was some kind of energy explosion. We can say the Death Star explodes. We can’t say he dies as we don’t see it. We can let the reader make that assumption but we can’t make it for them. Canterbury Tail talk 19:38, 11 December 2019 (UTC)

 * 100% agree with Canterbury Tail. As far as plots go on this encyclopedia, it doesn't matter what the creators say in interviews. It only matters what is explicitly seen in the film without interpretation. UpdateNerd (talk) 09:59, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

 * So it seems from a policy and process perspective we agree that we can't say died as it didn't happen on screen. Any policy reasons not to remove the definitive about death and only describe what is actually seen on screen? Canterbury Tail talk 15:23, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * That’s a misinterpretation or policy and not how things are done, so no. The movie isn’t ambiguous about what happened. Toa Nidhiki05 15:32, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * No it's not, the movie doesn't show what you're claiming. It may be interpreted in that way, but we don't see it. Plot is for what we see on screen without interpretation. Canterbury Tail talk 18:55, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Incorrect. Per WP:FILMPLOT, secondary sources can be used. He is dead, unless something changes in episode 9. This does not need a source, it’s patently obvious. He is thrown into a pit and it explodes, along with the Death Star. Toa Nidhiki05 19:05, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Then source it. As it stands it's not obvious or shown that Palpatine dies. Plenty of other people make it off the Death Star and had further to travel to escape. I'm not suggesting for a second that his death wasn't the intent, but it's not on the screen, it's not mentioned in the official script and as a result it's an interpretation something as Wikipedia editors we're prohibited from doing. It's an interpretation, extrapolation and original research. Canterbury Tail talk 19:24, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * His death was only assumed because it was the final chapter for many years. But to be fair Luke falls down a massive shaft in The Empire Strikes back and survives, so it is not unreasonable that there could have been an alternative outcome. If George Lucas had intended for his death to be so emphatic he could have framed it in many different ways, instead of choosing a "death" that mirrored the end of the previous film in which the main hero survived. A plot summary doesn't have to describe events on screen verbatim (many things are never shown on screen due to time constraints and censorship issues—for example you never see James Bond have sex despite the clear implication) but summaries must form a straightforward reading of the film. If something is left open to interpretation, ambiguous or open-ended then that needs to be clear in the summary. Betty Logan (talk) 23:11, 13 December 2019 (UTC)
 * That gives a majority for making the summary use the more ambiguous wording. Keeping the word "apparent" in there should make everyone happy. It's also a ridiculous thing to edit-war over when there's a new movie coming out next week. But that shouldn't effect the wording here, as consensus rules that we should focus on what's seen onscreen. UpdateNerd (talk) 13:43, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

 * So, TRoS confirms Palpatine did die. He said it himself. He somehow came back, however. Toa Nidhiki05 19:37, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Not seen TROS but anyway that’s irrelevant to the plot of Return of the Jedi as the film was made and shown. We don’t see a death and the script doesn’t describe a death. We can only go by what’s in the movie and his death isn’t. You’ve been asked to supply reliable sources that he died in the original filming and release of Return of the Jedi but none have been forthcoming, yet you continue to revert editors who are trying to implement policy. Retconned stuff or later references don’t count, this article is about the release and film of RotJ. Canterbury Tail talk 23:03, 20 December 2019 (UTC)
 * What you are saying is complete nonsense. Full stop. If you have an issue with it, add the citation yourself, but it's patently obvious he died, every single source says he died, and TRoS says he died. You are in the wrong here. Toa Nidhiki05 00:50, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * As much as I was expecting the new film to flashback and reveal how the Emperor "escaped", this never happened, and it actually confirmed that he died. How he came back is a mystery unrelated to the plot of RotJ. UpdateNerd (talk) 11:04, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
 * @Canterbury Tail: I get where you're coming from, but here's another way of looking at it. Imagine a scene where we see a gravely-ill character being visited in the hospital. Next thing we see is family and friends mourning at a funeral. We didn't actually see the death occur, but that wouldn't prevent us from including the basic interpretation that the character died in a plot summary. Maybe it's not as obvious with Palpatine, but there's enough to draw the same conclusion. We are led to believe the threat of the Empire is over with Palpatine falling to his death, and then it eventually cuts to a celebration. They wouldn't be celebrating, much like we wouldn't witness a funeral in the example I gave, if the death didn't occur. Is it still an assumption on the part of the characters, and could the characters be wrong? Sure, but stating Palpatine died is in agreement with the perspective we've been given. To describe it as "presumed death" or anything else would paint an unnecessary interpretation that goes against the grain of what we've been shown. --GoneIn60 (talk) 12:07, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

TROS take aways
and. In TROS, Palpatine says he’s “died before,” a clear reference to his plunge in Episode VI". However, Episode 6 never shows the emperor physically dying. Given his massive amount of power and force, Palpatine could have faked his death in order to start building The Final Order Fleet. It is established in the movie that Palpatine is only living through the use of machines that keep him "alive". He has no eyes and is very disfigured. In order for Palpatine to actually "live", he needed the life of Rey and Ren sucked out of them and into him. Cloning doesn't seem to be the reason.

It's not a shocker that Palpatine could have survived Episode 6 and went into hiding. It's also not a shocker that Palpatine could have the power of resurrection, just like REN DID TO REY. Palpatine was barely functioning and was on life support, his whole plan with Rey and Ren was to have them be killed for him to be fully alive again.

AmericanAir88(talk) 17:42, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

 * I'm right there with you, but that still means he died in VI even if he was resurrected afterwards. UpdateNerd (talk) 11:03, 25 December 2019 (UTC)

 * Yeah @User:AmericanAir88 @User:UpdateNerd when Anakin throws him down the shaft and he becomes out of frame you see an explosion happen. And in The Rise Of Skywalker, Kylo says "You'll die first", to which Palpy Boy confirms he died in that explosion by responding "I have died before. The dark side of The Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural", before giving him a shit-eating grin Stephanie921 (talk) 17:11, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Reliability/Credibility of recent Return of the Jedi Sources.
Hello,

A few days ago, I posted a source that supported the idea that Han Solo was not killed off because of merchandise sales, and one source that supported the idea that it was also Howard Kazanjian who told George Lucas about changing the name. Instead of suggesting fixing my wording or phrasing my work was entirely deleted, even though I used valid and credible sources in my edits. So, if you guys could tell me what to do in order to get my edits back on this page, that would be greatly appreciated. (I realize my Luke and Leia edit involving J.W Rinzler was out of place, and I admit that it wasn't needed)

Thank you. Mobfighter63 (talk) 01:46, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Character description
It is written, Luke was one of the last jedi knights. But he is not a full Jedi yet, at least Yoda says so, only by the end. KhlavKhalash (talk) 16:12, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

 * In the real world, it doesn't matter that we're not in-universe nitpicky. DonQuixote (talk) 16:15, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Critical Response
I tried adding with a source that clarifies the critical response for the Prequels was more mixed amongst fans as it tended to be the older generation of fans and critics that were more polarized but the younger generation even as kids tended to be more positive of them but it got edited out. I think it's necessary to tell this side of the story as it's part of history. As while "polarized" tells a part of the story it seems more leaning to what the older generation of fans thought. Joe12Hawk (talk) 17:26, 23 January 2023 (UTC)
 * This conversation is taking place at Talk:The_Empire_Strikes_Back to avoid spreading it over 3 articles. Darkwarriorblake / Vote for something that matters 18:52, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Return of the Jedi


text:
Morning View

Morning View is the fourth studio album by American rock band Incubus, released October 22, 2001, through Epic Records. A companion DVD, The Morning View Sessions, was released on May 29, 2002. Continuing the move away from nu metal, the album ranges widely from soft to hard rock sounds in the style of alternative rock. Morning View was the last Incubus album to feature bassist Alex Katunich.

With the album producing the popular singles "Wish You Were Here" and "Nice to Know You", Morning View generally achieved critical praise and went double-platinum, making it the band's highest selling album. A rerecorded version of the album, titled Morning View XXIII, was released on May 10, 2024.

Background and recording
To record the album, the band lived in Malibu, California, on a street called "Morning View Drive". Former bassist Alex Katunich (aka "Dirk Lance") noted that the band had previously "tried to do that for at least the writing portion of Make Yourself, but we didn't have enough clout at the time. When we were getting ready to write this one, we knew that we needed to get into a more creative place. The idea was to not feel as if you were driving [somewhere] to work on a record. You could just get up and it was a natural extension of your day."

Vocalist Brandon Boyd stated that the band "needed quick access to the beach because we're kinda spoiled brats sometimes. We need that outlet. At least I do. It's nice to write music all day and be like, 'I'm going to take a break, see you guys in two hours.'" Katunich claimed that the album's title came from the name of the street where it was recorded. Boyd notes that "every time we'd pull into the street we had the view of the ocean and Pacific Coast Highway. I got a big creative boner every time I'd show up to the house. Every time we'd pull up, DJ Kilmore would be like, 'Ah, Morning View. It's time to rock!'"

In a December 2001 interview, guitarist Mike Einziger talked about the decision to live and record in a house rather than in a conventional studio setting. He said, "it defied every criticism from people at the record label and management. There were a lot of people who thought it was a recipe for disaster. But we wanted to create an ideal environment for us to write and record music in. We knew what our goal was going in."

"Drive", the band's final single from their prior album Make Yourself, was released in late 2000 and started gaining popularity by the time Incubus moved into the house to record Morning View. Boyd said in 2012, "we were seeing fruits of our labor for the first time. But also everything that comes on the coat tails of new success; hence the fond memories as well as the challenging ones. I think perhaps that is one reason Morning View turned out the way that it did. It was unconsciously and consciously imbued with very real emotions, hopes, disappointments, and triumphs." Boyd had recently broken up with his girlfriend who he met during the recording of Make Yourself. Before meeting her he had just split from his previous girlfriend who was having an affair. He said in 2021, "I was coming off the heels of two, really just heartbreaking separations, like one after the other. So I was coming into the recording of Morning View excited, elated, filled with enthusiasm, and heartbroken all at the same time. Looking back, I feel really lucky because I was able to experience those things through the lens of music and art." After a month at the house, the band finished recording the album in May 2001, with Einziger remembering in 2002 "we were just on the verge of a musical orgasm after we finished Morning View. We felt like you'd feel after having the best sexual experience of your entire life. Exhausted, but extremely satisfied."

Out of the 30 songs the band sketched out for the album, 13 ended up on the final release. One of the unreleased songs called "Anything" was later released on the compilation album Monuments and Melodies. Other songs also added to Monuments and Melodies were "Wish You Were Here", "Nice to Know You", "Warning", "Are You In?", and "Mexico".

After the success of Make Yourself, Brandon Boyd started attaining popularity among female listeners, and would begin to take his shirt off for them during concerts. He was labelled as "MTV's newest weapon of mass heartbreak" and included on Teen People's list of "The Hottest Guys in Music" in 2001. In an interview with Spin shortly after the release of Morning View, it was noted that Boyd was "always getting chased by girls" as a child, before even forming Incubus. Around the making of the album, Mike Einziger also composed the rock and funk-based soundtrack for the comedy film Sol Goode, which was eventually released in early 2003. The film featured Jared Leto in a small role, with his band Thirty Seconds to Mars later touring with Incubus in 2002.

Music and lyrics
Morning View has been described as an alternative rock, alternative metal, hard rock and soft rock album and it features a variety of styles: ambience, aggression, and groove. It has an overall softer sound than previous albums, especially apparent on songs like "11am", "Echo" and "Are You In?". The album also contains an acoustic ballad similar to "Drive" – "Mexico", complete with strings. However, Incubus's heavier side is still evident on tracks like "Blood on the Ground", "Have You Ever" and "Under My Umbrella". Mike Einziger stated in a 2001 interview with Spin, "there's pressure to be a heavy band in this whole scene, and we just really turned our backs on it completely. I think the world of rap-metal is just pathetically ridiculous. In my opinion, it's a very horrible place to be. We don't want to be part of anyone's little bullshit scene." Regarding the album's sound, Einziger notes that it "would've been really easy for us to try to replicate certain songs that did well on our last record, which we didn't do. We didn't do anything even remotely close to that. We put pressure on ourselves to make a good record because if none of us were happy with it, we'll all be miserable for the next two years while we're on tour."

The final song, "Aqueous Transmission", employs the use of Chinese instruments such as the pipa and features a Japanese-style orchestra led by multi-instrumentalist Suzie Katayama. The pipa used on the recording was given to Mike Einziger from Steve Vai. Katayama later collaborated with Einziger on the experimental Time-Lapse Consortium project in 2003, and he credited her with inspiring his deepening musical comprehension. "Aqueous Transmission" is the longest song on the album at 7 minutes and 46 seconds long, with the last minute consisting of frogs croaking outside the house in Malibu. At the time, Boyd joked that the song was intended to make "the listener pee in his/her pants" from relaxation. He later claimed in 2021 that the song was influenced by the music of Björk, saying "Mikey and I grew up kind of mutually obsessed with Björk’s music. There was so much we loved about it: the weirdness of it, the instrumentation, the arrangements, the choices that she was making and that the producers were making. So we were like, 'let's make a super Björky sounding breakbeat that’s really cool and eerie and mellow'." He adds, "from there, I started messing around with the lyrics, and I remember when he started playing that little riff over that kind of trip-hop sounding beat, I just started singing: 'I’m floating down a river'. That’s what it sounded like. To me, it sounded like we were on this psychedelic river cruise somewhere."

Many believed that the single "Nice to Know You" lyrically revolved around a failed relationship, although Boyd claimed in 2002 that this was not the case. Regarding the song's meaning, he said, "'I had a moment in my life about a year ago where I was way too close to everything that was going on and I was blind. I felt like I was asleep. And the clouds parted for kind of a strange reason and I gained perspective. What happened was my hand had fallen asleep on the airplane on the way to Europe and it remained asleep for about 10 days, which was kind of scary. I must have pinched a nerve or something. But as my hand started waking up, the clouds started breaking away from that emotional state as well. The two happened simultaneously, so I created a simple metaphor for it. So it's basically a song about gaining perspective on a situation.'"

Touring and promotion
Morning View boasted a total of four singles beginning with "Wish You Were Here". The song was released on August 14, 2001, charting well and gaining significant rotation. The re-recorded version, Morning View XXIII has three singles: Echo, Circles, and Under My Umbrella. In the original banned video for "Wish You Were Here", Incubus are getting chased by a large pack of female fans, and eventually jump off a bridge. According to Boyd, the video was inspired by a scene in the 1968 film Head, which starred American band The Monkees. An alternative music video would end up being made for the song shortly afterwards, as the original version was deemed to be mirroring the September 11 attacks. The alternative version depicted the band playing in a studio against a white backdrop, interspersed with home movies they had made.

The follow up singles "Nice to Know You" and "Warning" both gained substantial airplay as well. The video for "Nice to Know You" was shot on November 28, 2001 in San Diego at the UCSD's Rimac Arena. The final single "Are You In?" had a video exclusive to Europe due to its sensual nature and gained little attention compared to its predecessors.

Once they had finished recording their new album in 2001, Incubus began touring with Hundred Reasons in Europe from June until the first week of July. They were also invited to play Moby's Area:One Festival alongside the likes of Outkast, The Roots, Paul Oakenfold, Carl Cox, and Nelly Furtado. In August, the band performed their first shows in Australia, New Zealand and Japan. Amidst touring, Incubus was still experiencing commercial milestones for Make Yourself, and they continued to headline throughout the remainder of the year. They were one of the first bands to play in New York City following the September 11 attacks, with the event not affecting the band's touring schedule. DJ Chris Kilmore told Billboard in November 2001, "we’re taking the stand that we’re not going to let some idiot who just wants to kill everybody affect our lives. We’re just going to keep doing what we do, and hopefully, everything will be alright."

In January 2002, the band toured Europe with 311 and Hoobastank. Incubus played on the Late Show with David Letterman on February 14, 2002. For the remainder of February and March, the group performed throughout Australia, New Zealand and Japan again as part of their "Pacific Tour", this time playing at a larger number of venues in these countries. While in Australia, they also shot the video for "Warning" in Sydney, and played on the Rove Live talk show in Melbourne for a second time, having earlier appeared on the program in 2001. They then returned to the US for their long-awaited Honda Civic Tour; joining their long-time friends from California, Hoobastank and Phantom Planet. These shows kept ticket prices low through sponsorship and saw the band give away cars to fans.

Incubus embarked on an American headlining tour on August 31, 2002, supported by Thirty Seconds to Mars. Their last concert during the Morning View touring cycle took place on November 2, 2002. The band took a break from touring and releasing music following this, and their next concerts would be at the Lollapalooza Festival in July 2003. Einziger told MTV in 2002, "we kind of had a seamless transition from our last record to our newest record, and we think maybe that this time around we should disappear for a little while." Boyd added in the same interview, "I think we're all getting sick of ourselves, so we need to run away, but we'll run away together 'cause we can't stay away from each other. Probably go and hang out in some place tropical, hopefully." Bassist Alex Katunich was asked to leave the band in October 2002, reportedly over personal and creative differences. His departure was announced to the media through a statement from Brandon Boyd in April 2003, with no official reason being given. He was replaced by Ben Kenney of The Roots. Before the release of Morning View XXIII, Ben left the band, despite his recovery from cancer. Nicole Row took his spot for touring and later became a full-time member, performing on Morning View XXIII.

Commercial response
Topping all previous Incubus records, Morning View debuted on the Billboard 200 at No. 2 with 266,000 copies sold in its first week. By December 2001, the album was certified platinum and still ranked No. 38 on the Top 200. Many of its singles would remain on the charts throughout the following year. After heavy touring and single rotation, Morning View would be the 40th best selling album of 2002.

Critical response
The album received generally positive reviews, with a Metacritic score of 62, based on 10 reviews. Q stated that "even at their most acerbic or delicately downplayed extremes, Incubus are compelling", while CDNow noted that Incubus "has begun to grow up a bit".

Rolling Stone wrote in their November 2001 review, "for a new-metal band competing in a field of alpha males with pierced, sloping brows, the supple, even delicate Incubus have an awful lot of yin in their yang. Unlike Staind, who require a suspension of disbelief that they are, essentially, macho crybabies, and Crazy Town, who probably tinge their mook-hop with Orientalism so they can score with Asian strippers, the coolest thing about Incubus is the way they come front-and-center with their inner little girl. They’ve got the tender lyrics, the nonlinear arrangements, melodies you can soak in and neckbreaker riffs alternating with swaying metallic grooves that somehow say, 'Love me, OK?'." Entertainment Weekly gave the album a B in October 2001, and wrote, "lead singer/heartthrob Brandon Boyd, with his wavy locks and herbal-life philosophy, is the anti-Fred Durst", further adding that "Incubus’ nontraditional drift continues on Morning View, a third album that, with its sonic kitchen-sink approach to record making, feels more like a typical band’s experimental sixth album."

Sean Adams of Drowned in Sound awarded it a 9 out of 10 on November 21, 2001, writing, "the really special bit, is the typical heart-throb frontman, Brandon Boyd. He's got it made. His vocals are something special." Adams further writes, "lyrically there is that little extra you don’t and won't get from many, if any, of their peers. It may sound like self-empowered, dope smoking, hippy rubbish to some, but it's gotta be better for the kidz than some homophobic diatribes, surely?." AllMusic's Deren Svendsen awarded it a similarly high score of four-and-a-half out of five stars, noting, "the ratio of softer and mellower numbers have increased dramatically, to the point where hardcore fans of earlier material may be bewildered. For the most part, the transition works." He adds, "while it may not appeal to fans of the harder material, music lovers who like their rock a little less aggressive and a little more ambitious and, well, sensitive should give Morning View a spin." Dylan P. Gadino of CMJ New Music Monthly compared the album to Faith No More and Linkin Park in November 2001, still considering it to have the same metallic undertone of previous releases. He writes, "on Morning View, the group's third major label album, Boyd and company continue their journey into the metal mystic, guided by familiar cascading chord progressions and ethereal-to-plump dynamic sensibilities. There are aggressive rockers like 'Under My Umbrella' here, but lush yet-harsh metal tunes like 'Blood on the Ground' are more indicative of the album's sound." However, he did note a higher number of acoustic songs, observing that, "Morning View shows a softer Incubus, yet it also affirms the group as being visionary among today's hard rockers."

Daily Nexus writer Jessica Jardine had a more negative view of the band's new direction, remarking in November 2001, "the release of the mushy-gushy single 'Wish You Were Here' became an ominous harbinger of the kinder, fuzzier Incubus to come. Without skipping a beat, that’s just what Morning View delivers – into the waiting palms of pre-teen girls everywhere", adding that "the semi-charged 'Have You Ever' and 'Under My Umbrella' remind me of S.C.I.E.N.C.E. but lack the diaphragm-thrusting belts and off-beat experimentalism that once wooed me." She concluded her review by stating, "yes, Brandon, you are a towering heartthrob amid booty-obsessed playa-pimps, but do we really need this saccharin-coated love goo?." NME had a similarly negative review in October 2001, writing, "Morning View's insurmountable flaw is that Incubus sell themselves as an intelligent and sensitive rock band, without actually appearing especially intelligent or sensitive. They're hippies, basically." Mikael Wood of the Dallas Observer wrote that Morning View is "an unapologetically flowery record", adding that it "wraps the angular, hard-edged funk-metal the band made in the early '90s in a silvery wash of acoustic-guitar strumming, vaguely Eastern ambience, SoCal surfer beatitude and Lilith Fair-friendly sensitive-male empathy."

Legacy and accolades
On March 1, 2003, Einziger, along with Scott Litt, Dave Holdredge, and Rick Will, were nominated for a Grammy in the "Best Engineered Album (Non Classical)" category, for their work on Morning View.

The 2003 book The Rough Guide to Rock reflected that it was the band's "most fully realized take on their artistic vision", and that "the rock bits rock hard and the relaxed bits are quite gorgeous." Jim DeRogatis included it as an example of a modern psychedelic rock album in his 2003 book Turn on Your Mind: Four Decades of Great Psychedelic Rock, writing that Incubus took their sound "to a new level with this effort, shedding its earlier Primus and Red Hot Chili Peppers obsessions and merging hard rock, ethnic percussion, DJ scratching, string sections, analog synthesizers and a dramatic use of dynamics." In April 2002, Incubus were placed 29th on Spin's "Top 40 (Only Bands that Matter)" list, with the publication reflecting that, "over the past 11 years Incubus seamlessly evolved from funk metal dreadheads into a spiritual Sugar Ray that rocks." They add, "the California-dreamy riffs and gentle beats of 2001's Morning View gave modern rock radio an even fresher kick. Plus, lead singer Brandon Boyd's perennially exposed abs (the group's unofficial sixth member) inspired hordes of 12-year-old girls to discover what 'Aqueous Transmission' means."

In 2005, Morning View was ranked number 374 in Rock Hard magazine's book The 500 Greatest Rock & Metal Albums of All Time. In 2021, Kerrang! ranked it as the 17th best album of 2001, remarking "as really, really, ridiculously good-looking as they were, Brandon Boyd and his Calabasas compatriots were more than just pretty faces." The publication placed Morning View first when ranking Incubus's studio albums in 2020. In 2023, Alternative Press also placed it first in their ranking of the band's discography, as did Brandon Boyd in a 2022 Louder Sound article.

On October 23, 2021, the band performed a 20th anniversary livestream concert at the same location in which the album was recorded. Prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, the band had hoped to do a 20th anniversary tour for the album in 2021, following the success of their 20th anniversary tour for Make Yourself in 2019. On August 5, 2023, the band announced the release of Morning View XXIII, a complete rerecording of the album set for release on October 5 by Virgin Music. They simultaneously announced a concert at the Hollywood Bowl where they would perform Morning View in full, supported by Paris Jackson and Action Bronson, for the same day. Several days before the Hollywood Bowl concert, it was announced that the release of Morning View XXIII had been delayed to early 2024. Morning View XXIII was released on May 10, 2024.

Track listing
All lyrics written by Brandon Boyd and all music written by Mike Einziger, Alex Katunich, Chris Kilmore, and José Pasillas.

Personnel
Credits adapted from album's liner notes.

Incubus
 * Brandon Boyd – lead vocals, percussion
 * Mike Einziger – lead guitar, pipa on "Aqueous Transmission"
 * Chris Kilmore – turntables
 * Dirk Lance – bass guitar
 * José Pasillas – drums

Additional musicians
 * Strings arranged and Conducted by Suzie Katayama
 * Violins: Joel Derouin, Mario De Leon, Peter Kent, Gerry Hilera, David Stenske, Eve Butler
 * Violas: Evan Wilson, Karie Prescott
 * Cello: Larry Corbett, Dan Smith
 * Woodwinds: Jon Clarke
 * Assistant contractor: Marne Boomershine
 * Background vocals on "Are You In": Dawn Beckham, Stephanie Alexander

Production
 * Produced by Scott Litt and Incubus
 * Recorded by Rick Will, Dave Holdredge, Mike Einziger, and Scott Litt
 * Mixed by Rick Will and Scott Litt
 * Digital recording/editing: Dave Holdredge
 * 2nd engineer: Tom Sweeney
 * Mastered by Bob Ludwig

title: Morning View


text:
Herne, North Rhine-Westphalia

Herne is a city in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. It is located in the Ruhr area directly between the cities of Bochum, and Gelsenkirchen.

History
Herne (ancient Haranni) was a tiny village until the 19th century. When the mining of coal (and possibly ore) and the production of coke (the fuel processed from the harvested coal) and steel began, the villages of the Ruhr area had an influx of people, mostly from the east of Germany.

Herne is located on the direct axis between Bochum to the south and Recklinghausen to the north, with Münster in the north, Gelsenkirchen to the west, and Castrop-Rauxel and Dortmund to the east. The physical border between Herne and Recklinghausen is the bridge at the Bochumer Strasse across the Rhine–Herne Canal. A little further north of the canal flows the Emscher river, with the former abundance of wild horses that were caught in the Emscher Valley (Emschertal), then sold and/or traded at the yearly horse market at Crange, which later developed into the "Cranger Kirmes". After World War II, Herne was known as "Die Goldene Stadt" ("The Golden City") because of the comparatively limited damage suffered during World War II.

Present-day Herne includes the former settlements of Haranni, originating at the south end of the Bahnhofstrasse and just across the Evangelische Hauptkirche Herne (main Lutheran Church—seems to be called "Kreuzkirche" now) and the crossing of Sodingerstrasse, running to the east at that point, then turning into Wiescherstrasse; formerly independent settlements or villages like Baukau, Börnig, Crange, Horsthausen, Pöppinghausen, Sodingen, and others became the present Herne. These farms bearing these names were probably or possibly found in the 11th and 12th centuries. In 1860, the first of a number of coal mines started operating. In the following thirty years, the population increased twenty-fold. In 1975, Wanne-Eickel, by then a city with over 70,000 inhabitants, was incorporated into Herne, which had a population larger than "Wanne-Eickel" at that point in time.

World War II
Herne was targeted by the Royal Air Force on 4 June 1940, early in World War II, and air raids became daily and nightly occurrences. On one occasion, three high-explosive torpedo-bombs were dropped, severely damaging a number of houses in the Vincke-Strasse (only some of the outer shell had remained) and resulting in the deaths of all the inhabitants. Phosphorus bombs were dropped in several locations and caused fires that lasted for days. The canal was the major mode of transportation for coal and coke from the many coal mines in the area to the factories for iron ore to be processed into steel (Blau-Stahl), and coal was transported along the inter-connecting waterways in all other directions to be used for industrial as well as domestic use. In particular, the bridge across Rhine–Herne Canal, closest to the easternmost double-chambered lock and the wharf on the north shore, was hit and taken out.

The Krupp Treibstoffwerke oil refinery near the local Shamrock, ¾ of the coal mine, was bombed during the oil campaign of World War II.

Mayor
The current Mayor of Herne is Frank Dudda of the Social Democratic Party (SPD), elected in 2015 and re-elected in 2020. The most recent mayoral election was held on 13 September 2020, and the results were as follows:

! colspan=2| Candidate ! Party ! Votes ! % ! colspan=3| Valid votes ! 48,508 ! 98.0 ! colspan=3| Invalid votes ! 980 ! 2.0 ! colspan=3| Total ! 49,488 ! 100.0 ! colspan=3| Electorate/voter turnout ! 119,462 ! 41.4
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| Frank Dudda
 * align=left| Social Democratic Party
 * 30,758
 * 63.4
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| Timon Radicke
 * align=left| Christian Democratic Union
 * 8,685
 * 17.9
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| Pascal Krüger
 * align=left| Alliance 90/The Greens
 * 5,014
 * 10.3
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| Daniel Kleibömer
 * align=left| The Left
 * 2,026
 * 4.2
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| Thomas Bloch
 * align=left| Free Democratic Party
 * 2,025
 * 4.2
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| Thomas Bloch
 * align=left| Free Democratic Party
 * 2,025
 * 4.2
 * colspan=5| Source: State Returning Officer
 * }
 * }

City council
The Herne city council governs the city alongside the Mayor. The most recent city council election was held on 13 September 2020, and the results were as follows:

! colspan=2| Party ! Votes ! % ! +/- ! Seats ! +/- ! colspan=2| Valid votes ! 48,843 ! 98.6 ! ! ! ! colspan=2| Invalid votes ! 694 ! 1.4 ! ! ! ! colspan=2| Total ! 49, 537 ! 100.0 ! ! 62 ! 2 ! colspan=2| Electorate/voter turnout ! 119,462 ! 41.5 ! 0.7 ! !
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| Social Democratic Party (SPD)
 * 21,560
 * 44.1
 * 0.6
 * 28
 * 1
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| Christian Democratic Union (CDU)
 * 9,775
 * 20.0
 * 5.9
 * 12
 * 3
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| Alliance 90/The Greens (Grüne)
 * 7,723
 * 15.8
 * 6.5
 * 10
 * 4
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| Alternative for Germany (AfD)
 * 4,127
 * 8.4
 * 4.3
 * 5
 * 3
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| The Left (Die Linke)
 * 1,980
 * 4.1
 * 2.2
 * 3
 * 1
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| Free Democratic Party (FDP)
 * 1,615
 * 3.3
 * 0.5
 * 2
 * ±0
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| Pirate Party Germany (Piraten)
 * 767
 * 1.6
 * 1.1
 * 1
 * 1
 * align=left| Independent Citizens Herne (UB Herne)
 * 804
 * 1.6
 * 0.0
 * 1
 * ±0
 * colspan=7 bgcolor=lightgrey|
 * align=left| Voters' Association Wanne-Herne (WWH)
 * 443
 * 0.9
 * New
 * 0
 * New
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| Independents
 * 49
 * 0.1
 * 0
 * align=left| Voters' Association Wanne-Herne (WWH)
 * 443
 * 0.9
 * New
 * 0
 * New
 * bgcolor=|
 * align=left| Independents
 * 49
 * 0.1
 * 0
 * 0.1
 * 0
 * 0
 * colspan=7| Source: State Returning Officer
 * }
 * }

Gallery
The largest communities of migrants:

Notable places
A fair called Cranger Kirmes is held in the city's Crange district every first week of August. This is the second largest-carnival in Germany, with an average of around 4.5 million visitors. Its origins can be traced back to the 15th century, when farmers started trading horses on Saint Lawrence's Day. The horse show and horse equipment sales were arranged at the same place where horses were traded years ago for tradition.

Notable people
Famous Hernians or Wanne-Eickelians include:
 * Cigdem Akyol
 * Yıldıray Baştürk
 * Kurt Edelhagen
 * Gudrun Heute-Bluhm
 * Andrea Jürgens, Dr. Claudia Dollins (Geier)
 * Jürgen von Manger, known as "Mr. Tegtmeier", Tegtmeiers Reisen
 * Jürgen Marcus
 * Bernd Storck
 * Peavy Wagner
 * Leonie Saint
 * Bärbel Beuermann
 * Gregor Willmes, musicologist
 * Rudolf Witzig
 * Jan Zweyer

Notable business

 * Heitkamp BauHolding, founded 1892, specialized construction work in different construction business areas

Sports
Herne is home to several football clubs, including SC Westfalia Herne, DSC Wanne-Eickel and SV Sodingen. Herne-West is a mockery name of the football club Schalke 04, most commonly used by the fans of Borussia Dortmund.

Sister cities
Herne is twinned with:

 * 🇫🇷 Hénin-Beaumont, France (1954)
 * 🏴 Castleford, England, United Kingdom (1956)
 * 🇳🇮 Altagracia, Nicaragua (1988)
 * 🇳🇮 Moyogalpa, Nicaragua (1988)
 * 🇷🇺 Belgorod, Russia (1990)
 * 🇩🇪 Eisleben, Germany (1990)
 * 🇵🇱 Konin, Poland (1991)
 * 🇹🇷 Beşiktaş, Turkey (2016)
 * 🇨🇳 Luzhou, China (2018)

title: Herne, North Rhine-Westphalia


text:
Talk:Gag rule (United States)

'Revisionists are at work'
The insertion of a comment on the Treaty of Ghent (End of the War of 1812) is not correct. The Treaty does not agree to end slavery.

Article 1 allows for return of all possessions taken from either party, including "slaves or other private property". The treaty does refer to the slave trade (not slavery itself). Article 10 states "Whereas the traffic in slaves is irreconcileable with the principles of humanity and justice, and whereas both his Majesty and the United States are desirous of continuing their efforts to promote its entire abolition, it is hereby agreed that both the contracting parties shall use their best endeavors to accomplish so desirable an object."

Italics
Use of italics on this page is really strange. Could anyone explain this? Juan Ponderas 03:41, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Harmful effects
The manipulation of the U. S. Constitution by the production of Gag rules injured the image of the U. S. Constitution in the eyes of the citizens of the United States. Afterwards, the slave States concluded that they could ignore the U. S. Constitution and secede from the Union.

 * 141.151.176.156 14:43, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Since the First Constitutional Amendment had been abridged by the Congressmen, the supreme law of the land lost some of its inviolability. However, the single greatest cause of the War Between the States was the enormous gulf in wealth which had developed.  Northerners were building savings banks at the rate of approximately ten per year.  Southerners were "the working poor" in the 1850s.  Superslum 00:19, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

MULTIPLICITY
Contributors to this article should keep it in mind that there were various gag rules. THE should be "THOSE" gag rules.

At one time, this article named and scantily explained the different gag rules. Some person has destroyed the content, for some reason. 71.253.55.81 07:05, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

Revisionists are at work
Gag Rule is an article which has been changed so many times that it is now only a grotesque shell of what it had been a year ago. It has been given a new slant. It pretends that southerners forced slavery on northerners. It bypasses the real facts, which are that pro-slavery Democrats held top governmental offices in northern States such as New York, New Hampshire, and Maine. President Martin van Buren was a pro-slavery Democrat from New York.

Pro-slavery Democrats were created about seven years after the Treaty of Ghent was ratified by Congress in 1815. The Treaty of Ghent included an agreement that both nations would take steps to end slavery. England gradually ended slavery throughout the British Empire by the end of 1835. The United States enacted a series of Acts of Congress (known as "gag rules") which ignored the provision in the Treaty of Ghent that required a cessation of slavery. In effect, the Americans employed their "gag rules" to revise the Treaty of Ghent and thereby to keep slavery in their nation.

Revisionists are busily changing many of the articles in Wikipedia. Basically, revisionists are removing important materials and inserting vacuous materials into articles. Important materials removed from the Gag Rule article were these:
 * Presidents Jackson and van Buren were pro-slavery Democrats
 * The Treaty of Ghent specified that slavery would cease
 * There was a series of "gag rules" (not just one)
 * One of the "gag rules" was named the Atherton gag, probably because it was originated by (Congressman or Senator) Charles Gordon Atherton of New Hampshire (which is a northern State)

It is possible that the title of the page was changed from Gag rule to Gag Rule in order to obliterate the original page. Over the span of a year, revisionists have removed the important information from the page, thereby creating a worthless page. 71.240.42.72 11:33, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Democrats advocated slavery

Between 1815 and 1865, more than 200 Democrats served as State Governors in the United States. The State Governors who were Democrats are placed closest to the left edge of the page. A # sign indicates each Democrat. The political party of each Governor who was not a Democrat follows his name.

 * Alabama
 * W. W. Bibb (Territorial Governor) (1817-19)
 * W. W. Bibb (1819-20) #
 * Thomas Bibb (1820-21) #
 * Israel Pickens (1821-25) #
 * John Murphy (1825-29) #
 * Gabriel Moore (1829-31) #
 * Samuel B. Moore (1831) #
 * John Gayle (1831-35) #
 * Clement C. Clay (1835-37) #
 * Hugh McVay (1837) #
 * Arthur P. Bagby (1837-41) #
 * Benjamin Fitzpatrick (1841-45) #
 * Joshua L. Martin (1845-47) #
 * Reuben Chapman (1847-49) #
 * Henry W. Collier (1849-53) #
 * John A. Winston (1853-57) #
 * Andrew B. Moore (1857-61) #
 * John G. Shorter (1861-63) #
 * Thomas H. Watts (1863-65) #
 * Lewis E. Parsons (Provisional) (1865)

 * Arkansas
 * James S. Conway (1836-40) #
 * Archibald Yell (1840-44) #
 * Samuel Adams (1844) #
 * Thomas S. Drew (1844-48) #
 * John S. Roane (1848-52) #
 * Elias N. Conway (1852-60) #
 * Henry M. Rector (1860-62) #
 * Harris Flanagan (1862-64) #
 * Isaac Murphy (Republican) (1864-68)

 * California
 * Peter H. Burnett (1849-51) #
 * John McDougal (1851-52) #
 * John Bigler (1852-56) #
 * J. N. Johnson (Know-Nothing) (1856-58)
 * John B. Weller (1858-60) #
 * Milton S. Latham (1860) #
 * John G. Downey (1860-61) #
 * Leland Stanford (Republican) (1861-63)

 * Connecticut
 * Gideon Tomlinson (Federalist) (1827-31)
 * John S. Peters (Whig) (1831-33)
 * H. W. Edwards (1833-34) #
 * Samuel A. Foote (Whig) (1834-35)
 * H. W. Edwards (1835-38) #
 * W. W. Ellsworth (Whig) (1838-42)
 * C. F. Cleveland (1842-44) #
 * Roger S. Baldwin (Whig) (1844-46)
 * Isaac Toucey (1846-47) #
 * Clark Bissell (Whig) (1847-49)
 * Joseph Trumbull (Whig) (1849-50)
 * Thomas H. Seymour (1850-54) #
 * Henry Dutton (Whig) (1854-55)
 * W. T. Minor (Know-Nothing) (1855-57)
 * A. H. Holley (Whig) (1857-58)
 * W. A. Buckingham (Republican) 1858-66)

 * Delaware
 * William Temple (acting) (no political party) (1846-47)
 * William Tharp (1847-51) #
 * William H. Ross (1851-55) #
 * Peter F. Causey (Whig-Know-Nothing) (1855-59)
 * William Burton (1859-63) #
 * William Cannon (Republican) (1863-65)

 * Florida
 * Thomas Brown (Whig) (1849-53)
 * James E. Broome (1853-57) #
 * Madison S. Perry (1857-1861) #
 * John Milton (1861-65) #
 * William Marvin (Provisional) (1865-66)

 * Georgia
 * George R. Gilmer (National Republican [later Whig]) (1829-31)
 * Wilson Lumpkin (1831-35) #
 * William Schley (1835-37) #
 * George R. Gilmer (Whig) (1837-39)
 * Charles A. Macdonald (1839-43) #
 * George W. Crawford (1843-47) #
 * George W. B. Towns (1847-51) #
 * Howell Cobb (1851-53) #
 * Herschel V. Johnson (1853-57) #
 * Joseph E. Brown (1857-65) #
 * James Johnson (1865) #
 * Charles J. Jenkins (1865-67) #
 * Gen. T. H. Ruger (Military) (1867-68)

 * Illinois
 * Shadrach Bond (1818-22) #
 * Edward Coles (1822-26) #
 * Ninian Edwards (1826-30) #
 * John Reynolds (1830-34) #
 * Joseph Duncan (1834-38) #
 * Thomas Carlin (1838-42) #
 * Thomas Ford (1842-46) #
 * Augustus C. French (1846-53) #
 * Joel A. Matteson (1853-57) #
 * William H. Bissell (Republican) (1857-60)

 * Indiana
 * Samuel Bigger (Whig) (1840-43)
 * James Whitcomb (1843-49) #
 * Joseph A. Wright (1849-57) #
 * Ashbel P. Willard (1857-61) #
 * Henry S. Lane (Republican) (1861)

 * Kansas
 * Charles Robinson (Republican) (1851-63)
 * Thomas Carney (Republican) (1863-65)

 * Kentucky
 * John Desha (Democrat-Republican) (1824-28)
 * Thomas Metcalf (Clay Democrat) (1828-32) #
 * John Breathitt (Jackson Democrat) (1832-34) #
 * James T. Morehead (Jackson Democrat) (1834-36) #
 * James Clark (Whig) (1836-39)
 * Charles A. Wickliffe (Whig) (1839-40)
 * Robert Letcher (Whig) (1840-44)
 * William Owsley (Whig) (1844-48)
 * John Crittenden (Whig) (1848-50)
 * John Helm (1850-51) #
 * Lazarus Powell (1851-55) #
 * Charles Morehead (Whig) 1855-59)
 * Beriah Magoffin (1859-62) #
 * James Robinson (1862-63) #
 * Thomas E. Bramlette (1863-67) #

 * Louisiana
 * Alexander Mouton (Whig) (1843-46)
 * Isaac Johnson (1846-50) #
 * Joseph Walker (1850-53) #
 * Paul Octave Hérbert (1853-56) #
 * Robert C. Wickliffe (1856-60) #
 * Thomas O. Moore (1860-62) #
 * George F. Shepley (Military) (1862-64)
 * Henry W. Allen {Governor of Confederate part of State} (1864-65)
 * Michael Hahn (Unionist and Military) (1864-65)
 * James M. Wells (1865-67) #
 * Benjamin F. Flanders (Military) (1867)

 * Maine
 * William King (1820-21) #
 * William D. Williamson (acting) (1821) #
 * Albion K. Parris (1822-27) #
 * Enoch Lincoln (1827-29) #
 * Nathan Cutler (acting) (1829-30) #
 * Jonathan D. Hunton (1830-31) #
 * Samuel E. Smith (1831-34) #
 * Robert P. Dunlap (1834-38) #
 * Edward Kent (Whig) (1838-39)
 * John Fairfield (1839-40) #
 * Edward Kent (Whig) 1840-41)
 * John Fairfield (1841-43) #
 * Edward Kavanagh (1843-44) #
 * Hugh J. Anderson (1844-47) #
 * John W. Dana (1847-50) #
 * John Hubbard (1850-53) #
 * William G. Crosby (Whig and Free Soil) (1853-55)
 * Anson P. Morrill (Republican) (1855-56)
 * Samuel Wells (1856-57) #
 * Hannibal Hamlin (Republican) (1857)

 * Maryland
 * Joseph Kent (Democratic-Republican) (1825-28)
 * Daniel Martin (Anti-Jackson) (1828-29)
 * Thomas K. Carroll (1829-30) #
 * Daniel Martin (Anti-Jackson) (1830-31)
 * George Howard (Whig) (1831-33)
 * James Thomas (Whig) (1833-35)
 * Thomas W. Veazey (Whig) (1835-38)
 * William Grayson (1838-41) #
 * Francis Thomas (1841-44) #
 * Thomas G. Pratt (Whig) (1844-47)
 * Philip F. Thomas (1847-50) #
 * Enoch L. Lowe (1850-53) #
 * Thomas W. Ligon (1852-58) #
 * Thomas H. Hicks (American) (1858-62)
 * August W. Bradford (Unionist) (1862-65)

 * Massachusetts
 * Marcus Morton (acting) (Democratic-Republican) (1825)
 * Levi Lincoln (Democrat and Federalist) (1825-34)
 * John Davis (Whig) (1834-35)
 * Samuel T. Armstrong (acting) (Whig) (1835-36)
 * Edward Everett (Whig) (1836-40)
 * Marcus Morton (1840-41) #
 * John Davis (Whig) 1841-43)
 * Marcus Morton (1843-44) #
 * George N. Briggs (Whig) (1844-51)
 * George S. Boutwell (Democrat and Free Soil) (1851-53)
 * John H. Clifford (Whig) 1853-54)
 * Emory Washburn (Whig) (1854-55)
 * Henry J. Gardiner (American) (1855-58)
 * Nathaniel P. Banks (Republican) 1858-61)

 * Michigan
 * Stevens T. Mason (1836-40) #
 * William Woodbridge (Whig) (1840-41)
 * James W. Gordon (acting) (Whig) (1841-42)
 * John S. Barry (1842-46) #
 * Alpheus Felch (1846-47) #
 * John S. Barry (1850-52) #
 * Robert McClelland (1852-53) #
 * Andrew Parsons (acting) (1853-55) #
 * Kingsley S. Bingham (Republican) (1855-59)

 * Minnesota
 * Henry H. Sibley (1858-60) #
 * Alexander Ramsey (Republican) (1860-64)

 * Mississippi
 * David Holmes (Democrat-Republican) (1817-20)
 * George Poindexter (1820-22) #
 * Walter Leake (1822-25) #
 * Gerard C. Brandon (ad int.) (1825)
 * David Holmes (ad int,) (1826)
 * Gerard C. Brandon (1827) #
 * Gerard C. Brandon (1828-32) #
 * Abram M. Scott (1832-33) #
 * Charles Lynch (ad int.) (1833) #
 * Hiram Runnels (1833-35) #
 * John A. Quitman (Whig) (1835)
 * Charles Lynch (1836-38) #
 * Alexander G. McNutt (1838-42) #
 * Tilghman M. Tucker (1842-44) #
 * Albert G. Brown (1844-48) #
 * Joseph W. Matthews (1848-50) #
 * John A. Quitman (1850-51) #
 * John I. Guion (ad int.) (1851) #
 * James Whitfield (ad int) (1851) #
 * Henry S. Foote (Union Democrat) (1852-54) #
 * John J. McRae (1854-58) #
 * William McWillie (1858-60) #
 * John J. Pettus (1860-62) #
 * Jacob Thompson (1862-64) #
 * Charles Clarke (1864-65) #
 * W. L. Sharkey (Provisional) (1865)
 * Benjamin G. Humphreys (1865-68) #

 * Missouri
 * Alexander McNair (1820-24) #
 * Frederick Bates (1824-25) #
 * Abraham J. Williams (1825) #
 * John Miller (1825-32) #
 * Daniel Dunklin (1832-36) #
 * Lilburn W. Boggs (1836-40) #
 * Thomas Reynolds (1840-44) #
 * M. M. Marmaduke (acting) (no political party) (1844)
 * John C. Edwards (1844-48) #
 * Augstin A. King (1848-52) #
 * Sterling Price (1852-56) #
 * Trusten Polk (1856-57) #
 * Hancock Jackson (1857) #
 * Robert M. Stewart (1857-61) #
 * Claiborne F. Jackson (1861) #
 * Hamilton R. Gamble (Provisional) (1861-64)
 * Willard P. Hall (acting) (no political party) (1864-65)

 * New Hampshire
 * Benjamin Pierce (Democrat-Republican) (1827-29)
 * John Bell (1829-30) #
 * Matthew Harvey (1830-31) #
 * Joseph M. Harvey (acting) (1831) #
 * Samuel Dinsmoor (1831-34) #
 * William Badger (1834-36) #
 * Isaac Hill (1836-39) #
 * John Page (1839-42) #
 * Henry Hubbard (1842-44) #
 * John H. Steele (1844-46) #
 * Anthony Colby (1846-47) #
 * Jared W. Williams (1847-49) #
 * Samuel Dinsmoor (1849-52) #
 * Noah Martin (1852-54) #
 * Nathaniel B. Baker (1854-55) #
 * Ralph Metcalf (American) (1855-57)
 * William Haile (1857-59) #
 * Ichabod Goodwin (Republican) (1859-61)

 * New Jersey
 * Isaac H. Williamson (Democratic-Republican) (1817-29)
 * Garret D. Wall (declined) (1829) #
 * Peter D. Vroom (1829-32) #
 * Samuel L. Southard (Whig) (1832-33)
 * Elias P. Seely (1833) #
 * Peter D. Vroom (1833-36) #
 * Philemon Dickerson (1836-37) #
 * William Pennington (Whig) (1837-43)
 * Daniel Haines (1843-44) #
 * Charles C. Stratton (Whig) (1845-48)
 * Daniel Haines (1848-51) #
 * George F. Fort (1851-54) #
 * Rodman M. Price (1854-57) #
 * Wm. A. Newell (American) (1857-60)
 * Charles S. Olden (American) (1860-63)
 * Joel Parker (1863-66) #
 * Marcus L. Ward (Republican) (1866-69)

 * New York
 * Nathaniel Pitcher (acting) (Democratic-Republican) (1828-29)
 * Martin Van Buren (1829) #
 * Enos T. Throop (acting) (1829-31)  #
 * Enos T. Throop (1831-33) #
 * William L. Marcy (1833-39) #
 * William H. Seward (Whig) (1839-43)
 * William C. Bouck (1843-45) #
 * Silas Wright (1846-47) #
 * John Young (Whig) (1847-49)
 * Hamilton Fish (Whig) (1849-51)
 * Washington Hunt (Whig) (1851-53)
 * Horatio Seymour (1853-55) #
 * Myron H. Clark (Whig) (1855-57)
 * John A. King (Republican) (1857-59)
 * Edwin D. Morgan (Republican) (1859-63)
 * Horatio Seymour (1863-65) #
 * Reuben E. Fenton (Republican) (1865-69)

 * North Carolina
 * Hutchins G. Burton (Democratic Republican) (1824-27)
 * James Iredell (1827-28) #
 * John Owen (1828-30) #
 * Montfort Stokes (1830-32) #
 * David L. Swain (1832-35) #
 * Richard Dobbs Spaight, Jr. (1835-37) #
 * Edward B. Dudley (Whig) (1837-41)
 * John M. Morehead (Whig) (1841-45)
 * William A. Graham (Whig) (1845-449)
 * Charles Manly (Whig) 1849-51)
 * David S. Reid (1851-54) #
 * Warren Winslow (acting) (1854-55)  #
 * Thomas Bragg (1855-59) #
 * John W. Ellis (1859-61) #
 * H. T. Clark (acting) (1861-62) #
 * Zebulon B. Vance (1862-65) #
 * W. W. Holden (Provisional) (1865)

 * Ohio
 * Joseph Vance (Whig) (1836-38)
 * Wilson Shannon (1838-40) #
 * Thomas Corwin (Whig) (1840-42)
 * Wilson Shannon (1842-44) #
 * T. W. Hartley (acting) (1844) #
 * Mordecai Bartley (Whig) (1844-46)
 * William Bebb (Whig) (1846-49)
 * Seabury Ford (acting) (Whig) (1849-50)
 * Reuben Wood (1850-53) #
 * William Medill (acting) (1853-54) #
 * William Medill (1854-56) #
 * Salmon P. Chase (Republican) (1856-60)

 * Oregon
 * John Whiteaker (1859-62) #
 * Addison C. Gibbs (Republican) (1862-66)

 * Pennsylvania
 * William Findlay (Democratic-Republican) (1817-20)
 * Joseph Hiester (Independent democrat) (1820-23)
 * John Andrew Schulze (Democratic-Republican) (1823-29)
 * George Wolf (Democratic-Republican) (1829-35)
 * Joseph Ritner (Antimasonic)
 * David Rittenhouse Porter (1839-45) #
 * Francis Rawn Shunk (1845-48) #
 * William Freame Johnston (Whig) (1848-52)
 * William Bigler 1852-55) #
 * James Pollock (1855-58) #
 * William Fisher Packer (1858-61) #
 * Andrew Gregg Curtin (Republican) (1861-67)

Governors Porter, Shunk, Bigler, Pollock and Packer were in a political party called "Democratic" (in Pennsylvania).

 * Rhode Island
 * Henry B. Anthony (Whig) (1849-51)
 * Philip Allen (Democratic-Free Soil) (1851-53)
 * Francis M. Dimond (acting) (no political party) (1853-54)
 * William W. Hoppin (American) (1854-57)
 * Elisha Dyer (Republican) (1857-59)

 * South Carolina
 * John Taylor (Democrat-Republican) (1826-28)
 * Stephen D. Miller (1828-30) #
 * James Hamilton (1830-32) #
 * Robert Y. Hayne (1832-34) #
 * George McDuffie (1834-36) #
 * Pierce M. Butler (1836-38) #
 * Patrick Noble (1838-40) #
 * B. K. Hennegan (acting) (no political party) (1840)
 * John P. Richardson (1840-42) #
 * James H. Hammond (1842-44) #
 * William Aiken (1844-46) #
 * David Johnson (1846-48) #
 * W. B. Seabrook (1848-50) #
 * John H. Means (1850-52) #
 * John L. Manning (1852-54) #
 * James H. Adams (1854-56) #
 * Robert F. W. Allston (1856-58) #
 * William H. Gist (1858-60) #
 * Francis W. Pickens (1860-62) #
 * M. L. Bonham (1862-64) #
 * A. G. Magrath (1864-65) #
 * Benjamin F. Perry (Provisional) (1865)

 * Tennessee
 * Sam Houston (Democratic-Republican) (1827-29)
 * William Hall (acting) (Democratic-Republican) (1829)
 * William Carroll (1829-35) #
 * Newton Cannon (States-Rights Democrat) (1835-39) #
 * James K. Polk (1839-41) #
 * James C. Jones (Whig) (1841-45)
 * Aaron V. Brown (1845-47) #
 * Neil S. Brown (Whig) (1847-49)
 * William Trousdale (1849-51) #
 * William B. Campbell (Whig) (1851-53)
 * Andrew Johnson (1853-57) #
 * Isham G. Harris (1857-62) #
 * Andrew Johnson (Military) (1862-65)
 * (Interregnum) 4th March, 5th April, 1865
 * William G. Brownlow (Republican) (1865-69)

 * Texas
 * James P. Henderson (1846-47) #
 * George T. Wood (1847-49) #
 * P. Hansborough Bell (1849-53) #
 * Elisha M. Pease (1853-57) #
 * Hardin Richard Runnels (1857-59) #
 * Sam Houston (Independent and Unionist) (1859-61)
 * Edward Clark (acting) (1861) #
 * Francis R. Lubbock (1861-63) #
 * Pendleton Murrah (1863-65) #
 * Andrew J. Hamilton (Provisional ... Unionist) (1865-66)

 * Vermont
 * William A. Palmer (Fusion) (1831-35)
 * Silas A. Jenison (Whig) (1835-41)

 * Virginia
 * William B. Giles (no political party) (1827-30)
 * John Floyd (1830-34) #
 * Littleton Waller Tazewell (1834-36) #
 * Wyndham Robertson (acting) (1836-37) #
 * David Campbell (no political party) (1837-40)
 * Thomas W. Gilmer (Whig) (1840-41)
 * John M. Patton (acting) (Whig) (1841)
 * John Rutherford (acting) (Whig) (1841-42)
 * John Munford Gregory (acting) (Whig) (1842-43)
 * James McDowell (Whig) (1843-46)
 * William Smith (1846-49) #
 * John Buchanan Floyd (1849-52) #
 * Joseph Johnson (1852-56) #
 * Henry Alexander Wise (1856-60) #
 * John Letcher (1860-64) #
 * William Smith (1864-65) #
 * Francis H. Pierpont (Provisional [Republican])

 * West Virginia
 * Arthur I. Boreman (Republican) (1863-69)

 * Wisconsin
 * Nelson Dewey (1848-52) #
 * Leonard J. Farwell (Whig) (1852-54)
 * William A. Barstow (1854-56) #
 * Arthur McArthur (acting) (no political party) (1856)
 * Coles Bashford (Republican) (1856-58)
 * Alexander W. Randall (Republican) (1858-62)

This list of State Governors provides information that conveys the general attitude that voters in the United States held towards slavery. Democrats promoted slavery. Men in the Whig Party were the primary group that opposed Democrats.

 * They were voting for Democrats in New England, too. Superslum 15:35, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Article destruction
Gag Rule is an article which has been shredded into nothingness. Now, it has no value. Reading it is a waste of time. Wikipedia takes the approach that each apple on a tree is more important than the tree itself. Wikipedia ought to recognize that some of the apples on a tree may contain worms. Superslum 00:57, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikification tag
The article seems to meet Wikification standards, so I am removing the tag. - Conrad Devonshire 22:13, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Rule XX1 Link Needs Updating
Can someone update the rule XX1 link? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.61.17.79 (talk) 20:56, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

 * Done. --Error -128 (talk) 23:58, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Separate Article covering Gag Rule Debates in US
The Gag Rule debates were a significant part of the events leading up to the American Civi War. It deserves its own article, especially since the material in this article unrelated to it (which makes up the entire article lead) contains little of interest or significance in its current form and there appears to be no interest in expanding it. Absent some objections, I intend in the near future to create a new article titled something like "Gag Rule Debates in the United States Congress." Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 21:28, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

 * Can I assume nobody cares what I do? Tom (North Shoreman) (talk) 01:05, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Article name
The current article name isn't precise since there are other gag rules in the United States, such as the Mexico City policy. This article is now specifically about the gag rule on slavery, and the article name should reflect that. Do you have a better suggestion? Antony–22 (talk⁄contribs) 06:49, 18 November 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gag rule (United States)


text:
Talk:Myth of mental illness

This should not really be a redirect but should be an article on Szasz' book. --Daniel C. Boyer

title: Talk:Myth of mental illness


text:
Augustin Barruel

Augustin Barruel (October 2, 1741 – October 5, 1820) was a French journalist, intellectual, and Jesuit priest. He is now mostly known for setting forth the conspiracy theory involving the Bavarian Illuminati and the Jacobins in his book Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism (original title Mémoires pour servir à l'Histoire du Jacobinisme) published in 1797. In short, Barruel wrote that the French Revolution was planned and executed by the secret societies.

Biography
Augustin Barruel was born at Villeneuve de Berg (Ardèche). He entered the Society of Jesus, commonly known as the Jesuits, in 1756, and taught grammar at Toulouse from 1762. The storm against the Jesuits in France drove him from his country and he was occupied in college work in Moravia and Bohemia until the suppression of the order in 1773. He then returned to France and his first literary work appeared in 1774: Ode sur le glorieux avenement de Louis Auguste au trone. (Ode to the glorious advent to the throne of Louis Auguste). That same year he became a collaborator of the Année littéraire, edited by Fréron. His first important work was Les Helveiennes, ou Lettres Provinciales philosophiques (The Helveiennes or philosophical Provincial Letters) published in 1781.

In the meantime, national affairs in France were growing more and more turbulent, but Barruel continued his literary activity, which from now on occupied itself specially with public questions. In 1789 appeared Lettres sur le Divorce, a refutation of a book by Hennet. From 1788 to 1792 he edited the famous Journal Ecclesiastique founded by Joseph Dinouart in 1760. In this periodical was published Barruel's ''La Conduite du. S. Siège envers la France'', a vigorous defense of Pope Pius VI. He likewise wrote a number of pamphlets against the civil oath demanded from ecclesiastics and against the new civil constitution during 1790 and 1791. He afterward gathered into one Collection Ecclésiastique all of the works relative to the clergy and civil constitution.

The French Revolution and the conspiracy theory
The storm of the French Revolution had in the meantime forced Barruel to seek refuge in England, where he became almoner to the refugee Prince of Conti. Here he wrote in 1793 the Histoire du Clergé pendant la Revolution Française ("History of the Clergy during the French Revolution"). He dedicated the work to the English nation in recognition of the hospitality that it had showed toward the unfortunate French ecclesiastics. It has been translated into German, Italian, Spanish, Polish, and English. The English version went through several editions and did much to strengthen the British nation in its opposition to French revolutionary principles. While in London, Barruel published an English work, A Dissertation on Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction in the Catholic Church. But none of his works attracted so much attention as his Memoirs Illustrating the History of Jacobinism.

His basic idea was that of a conspiracy with the aim of overthrowing Christianity—or more to the point, any and all forms of political and social organization based on conformity to the moral teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. Barruel's conspiracy is notable for suggesting an association between the Occult, the French Enlightenment, and Freemasons. He thereby associated Paganism with Enlightenment thought, a trend followed by some later reactionary thinkers and even contemporary intellectual historians.

It inspired John Robison, who had been working independently on his own conspiracy theory, to extend his book Proofs of a Conspiracy Against all the Religions and Governments of Europe and include several quotations from Barruel.

Late years
On the fall of the Directory in 1799, Barruel was enabled to return to France. He fully accepted and persuaded many other clergymen to accept the new political order of things in his native country and he wrote several books to defend his opinions. When the Concordat was made in 1801 between Pius VII and Napoleon, Barruel wrote: Du Pape et de ses Droits Religieux.

In 1806, he was the recipient of the Simonini letter, which claimed to document a conspiracy among the Jews of Florence, Italy in coalition with the Illuminati. Barruel never published the letter's contents openly, although he likely circulated copies privately and the letter ended up being published in France's Le Contemporain in the 1870's..

His last important controversy was his defense of the Holy See in its deposition of the French bishops, which he said had been necessitated by the new order of things in France established by the Concordat of 1801. His book appeared also in English: The Papal Power, or an historical essay on the temporal power of the Pope. Many attacked the work, but as usual, the author did not suffer an antagonist to go unanswered. His new work involved him in a very extended controversy, for his work was translated into all the principal European languages. His friends and foes alike became involved in a wordy war. Blanchard published in London no fewer than three refutations. He had promised to compose two works that never appeared: Historie des Sociétés Secrètes au Moyen-Age and Dissertation sur la Croisade contre les Albigeois. In regard to the latter work, Barruel stated his object would be to defend the Church against the reproach of having deposed kings and having freed their subjects from the oath of allegiance. He contended that objections on this score arose only from an ignorance of history. At the time of his death, Barruel was engaged on a refutation of the philosophical system of Immanuel Kant, but never completed his work. He died in Paris in 1820.

Works

 * Ode sur le Glorieux Avènement de Louis-Auguste au Trône, Présenté à la Reine, Paris, Valade, 1774.
 * Traduction du Latin de M. l'abbé Boscovich, Les Éclipses, poème en six chants, Paris, Valade et Laporte, 1779.
 * Les Helviennes, ou Lettres Provinciales Philosophiques, Amsterdam et Paris, Laporte, 1781; Amsterdam et Paris, Moutard, 2 Vol., 1784 et 3e Vol., 1784-1785; Amsterdam et Paris, Briant, Vol. 4-5, 1788; 7e éd. Paris, Pailleux, 1830.
 * Lettres sur le Divorce, à un Député de l'Assemblée Nationale, ou bien, Réfutation d'un Ouvrage Ayant pour Titre: "Du Divorce," Paris, Crapart, 1789.
 * Le Patriote Véridique, ou Discours sur les Vraies Causes de la Révolution Actuelle, Paris, Crapart, 1789.
 * (éd.) Le Plagiat du Comité Soi-disant Ecclésiastique de l'Assemblée Nationale, ou Décret de Julien l'Apostat, Formant les Bases de la Constitution Civile du Clergé Français, Suivi des Représentations de Saint Grégoire de Nazianze, Antioche et Autun, Imprimerie Impériale, 1790.
 * Les Vrais Principes sur le Mariage, Opposés au Rapport de M. Durand de Maillane et Servant de Suite aux Lettres sur le Divorce, Paris, Crapart, 1790.
 * De la Conduite des Curés dans les Circonstances Présentes. Lettre d'un Curé de Campagne à son Confrère, Député à l'Assemblée Nationale, sur la Conduite à Tenir par les Pasteurs des Ames, dans les Affaires du Jour, Paris, Crapart, 1790.
 * Développement du Serment Exigé des Prêtres en Fonction par l'Assemblée Nationale, Paris, Craparad, 1790.
 * Question Nationale sur l'Autorité et sur les Droits du Peuple dans le Gouvernement, Paris, Craparad, 1791.
 * Question Décisive sur les Pouvoirs ou la Juridiction des Nouveaux Pasteurs, Paris, Crapart, 1791.
 * Développement du Second Serment Appelé Civique, Décrété le 16 et le 29 Novembre 1791, Paris, Crapard, [1791] [Pergamon Press, "Les archives de la Révolution française," 1989].
 * Préjugés Légitimes sur la Constitution Civile du Clergé et sur le Serment Exigé des Fonctionnaires Publics, Paris, Crapart, 1791.
 * (éd.) Collection Ecclésiastique ou Recueil Complet des Ouvrages Faits Depuis l'Ouverture des États Généraux, Relativement au Clergé, à sa Constitution Civile, Décrétée par l'Assemblée Nationale, Sanctionnée par le Roi, Paris, Crapart, 1791-1793.
 * Lettre Pastorale de M. l'Évêque d'Evreux, à ses Diocésains. En leur Adressant l'Apologie de la Conduite du Pape, dans les Circonstances Présentes, Paris, Crapart, 1792.
 * Histoire du Clergé Pendant la Révolution Française, 2 vol., Londres et Paris, Chez les libraires, 1797.
 * Mémoires pour Servir à l'Histoire du Jacobinisme, Hambourg, 5 vol., P. Fauche, 1798-1799. Rééditions: Hambourg, P. Fauche, 1803; Édition Revue et Corrigée, 1818; Abrégé par E. Perrenet éd. Paris, La Renaissance française, 1911; avec un introduction de Christian Lagrave, Diffusion de la pensée française, "Les Maîtres de la Contre-révolution," 1974; Extraits sous le titre: Spartacus Weishaupt, Fondateur des Illuminés de Bavière, Ventabren, Les Rouyat, 1979; Pergamon press, "Les archives de la Révolution Française," 1989; Éditions de Chiré, "Les Maîtres de la Contre-révolution," 2 t., 2005.
 * Abrégé des Mémoires pour Servir à l'Histoire du Jacobinisme, 2 vol., Londres, P. Le Boussonnier, 1798, 1799; Luxembourg, 1800; Hambourg, P. Fauche, 1800, 1801; Paris: A. Le Clère, 1817.
 * Lettres d'un Voyageur à l'Abbé Barruel, ou Nouveaux Documents pour ses Mémoires, Nouvelles Découvertes Faites en Allemagne, Anecdotes sur Quelques Grands Personnages de ce Pays, Chronique de la Secte, etc. (1er juin-1er novembre 1799), Londres, Dulau, 1800.
 * Du Pape et de ses Droits Religieux, à l'Occasion du Concordat, 2 vol., Paris, Crapart, 1803.
 * Trois Propositions sur l’Église de France, Établie en Vertu du Concordat, Londres, J. Booker, [1804].
 * Du Principe et de l'Obstination des Jacobins, en Réponse au Sénateur Grégoire, Paris, 1814; [Trad. italienne: Del principio e della ostinazione dei Giacobini; risposta dell’abate Barruel al senator Gregoire, Torino, Galletti, 1814].
 * Réplique Pacifique aux Trois Avocats de M. le Sénateur Grégoire, Paris, [s. n.], 1814.
 * (éd.) Recueil Précieux pour les Historiens de ce Temps, ou Choix de Brochures et de Pamphlets sur les Personnages et les Événements de la Révolution à dater de la Première Abdication de Buonaparte jusqu'au Moment Présent, 4 vol., Paris, Chez les marchands de nouveautés, 1815.
 * Réponse a l’avocat de la Petite-Église, Laval, Portier, [1818].
 * Lettres inédites de Barruel à son retour d’exil (1802-1806), publiées par Abel Dechêne, Aubenas, C. Habauzit, 1923.

Works translated to English, and related documents

 * Memoirs, Illustrating the History of Jacobinism, Vol. 2, Vol. 3, Vol. 4, Hudson & Goodwin for C. Davis, 1789.
 * A Dissertation on Ecclesiastical Jurisdiction in the Catholic Church, J. P. Coghlan, 1794.
 * The History of the Clergy During the French Revolution, in Three Parts, I. Neale & H. Kammerer, 1794.
 * Selections from the Abbe Barruel's "Memoirs, Illustrating the History of Jacobinism," with Brief Remarks on that Performance, Phinehas Allen, 1802.
 * The Anti-Christian and Anti-Social Conspiracy: An Extract from the French of the Abbé Barruel. To which is Prefixed, "Jachin and Boaz; or, an Authentic Key to the Door of Free-masonry, Ancient and Modern," Joseph Ehrenfried, 1812.
 * Clifford, Robert. Application of Barruel's Memoirs of Jacobinism, to the Secret Societies of Ireland and Great Britain, E. Booker, 1798.

title: Augustin Barruel


text:
Semitism

Semitism may refer to:
 * Semitism (linguistics), a grammatical or syntactical behaviour in a language which reveals that the influence of a Semitic language is present
 * Judaism
 * Philosemitism
 * Semitic people

title: Semitism


text:
Talk:Jumping the shark

I would like to see categories
First time making an editorial comment:

One of the items I enjoyed about the Jumping the shark website and I would like to see added to the Wikipedia post is the different categories for why a program jumped the shark. I particularly liked the "They did it," "The Scrappy", "The Other Darrin," etc. Pbatterson (talk) 21:13, 20 February 2017 (UTC) pbatterson

"Thrust" link to Happy Days page
I understand the reason an editor linked the word "thrust" to the Happy Days page, but it seems a little unnecessary since Happy Days is already linked in the previous sentence, and linking it to that noun is just odd. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.97.21.53 (talk) 14:51, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

Punching the Shark
Punching the Shark was coined to expand on the concept of jumping the shark. Reference is provided, the actual youtube event where it happened (on a popular comedy channel). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.207.150.3 (talk • contribs)

 * We need a third-party source to recognize that "punching the shark" has entered into the public idioms. Just because CinemaSins uses it does not make it an encyclopedic term. --M asem (t) 22:12, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

Related, but I don't know the term/idiom, if there is any.
So, I recall comments made at some point in the 80s, IIRC regarding Magnum, P.I., that when a situation show started traveling (started moving the plots to locations other than the one single location the show had for years) it was a sign that the show was near cancelation.

The specific example case that I remember was the Sanford and Son final season two episode trip to Hawaii (The Hawaiian Connection).

IveGoneAway (talk) 20:46, 23 December 2020 (UTC)

No mention of jumptheshark.com having jumped the shark
It mentions that the creator sold the web site, but just leaves it at that. It appears that the buyer, TV Guide, eliminated the original content and now uses the web address to get people to view a generic TV Guide web site. Maybe that doesn't qualify as "jumping the shark" (no publicity stunt involved), but TV Guide did destroy the site. -Seems like it should be mentioned - mostly because the site no longer exists, except as an URL. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.14.77.222 (talk) 06:20, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Meaning of the phrase - creative exhaustion
I had the feeling (perhaps I'm wrong) that the phrase is used to describe the point in the life of a TV show when it has exhausted all the possibilities inherent in its original premise and is reduced to bringing in absurd and out of place plot elements. So its not so much about publicity seeking, but more about the point at which a show demonstrates complete creative exhaustion. Acorrector (talk) 22:53, 24 November 2022 (UTC)

 * Since the 'jumping shark' is a direct quotes the 'Jaws' predecessor 'Moby Dick' ( borderline-big-game-hunter vs jumping whale ), so that element in the movie is not absurd, but paying homage to the original. The original intention behind inventing the idiom 'jump the shark' was more likely based on the phrase 'pull the other one' [, it has bells on it]. The users of the term 'jumping the shark' just had to find a new explanation for the term, due to the growing number of real life pictures of jumping sharks as a consequence of the rising popularity of mobile phone cameras. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A0A:A548:47E3:0:4511:AE6A:8F0D:E7C5 (talk) 07:51, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Archive link?
Would it be appropriate to link to some ultimate, pre-TV Guide archive of JumpTheShark.com ? (Sandford and Son meet Don Ho) IveGoneAway (talk) 16:31, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

Archive link?
Would it be appropriate to link an ultimate archive version of the JumpTheShark.com page?

IveGoneAway (talk) 22:23, 26 November 2022 (UTC)

WP:EXAMPLEFARM
One (or at most a few) examples about the subject matter under discussion should suffice. This article has a ridiculous number (10) examples. I'm trimming the section per WP:EXAMPLEFARM. Toddst1 (talk) 17:42, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jumping the shark