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Jungle Fever

Jungle Fever is a 1991 American romantic drama film written, produced and directed by Spike Lee. Starring Lee, Wesley Snipes, Annabella Sciorra, Ossie Davis, Ruby Dee, Samuel L. Jackson, Lonette McKee, John Turturro, Frank Vincent, Tim Robbins, Brad Dourif, Giancarlo Esposito, Debi Mazar, Michael Imperioli, Anthony Quinn, and Halle Berry and Queen Latifah in their film debuts, Jungle Fever explores the beginning and end of an extramarital interracial relationship against the urban backdrop of the streets of New York City in the early 1990s. The film received positive reviews, with particular praise for Samuel L. Jackson's performance, and was also commercially successful.

Plot
Successful Harlem architect Flipper Purify lives with his wife Drew, a buyer at Bloomingdale's, and their young daughter, Ming. One day at his workplace, the Mast & Covington architecture firm in mid-town Manhattan, Flipper discovers that an Italian-American woman named Angela "Angie" Tucci from Bensonhurst has been hired as his temp secretary. Initially upset at being the only black person, he relents when senior partners Jerry and Leslie remind him that hiring is based on ability, not race.

Angie's quiet fiancé Paulie Carbone co-manages a corner grocery store/cafe and newsstand and lives with his elderly widowed father Lou. When Paulie arrives to take her out on a date, her brothers Charlie and James antagonize him while he awaits her arrival, threatening physical retribution if he sexually disrespects her. Nevertheless, she urges Paulie to stand up to them as they depart.

After working several late nights together, Flipper and Angie have sex, beginning a tumultuous relationship. The next day, Flipper demands that Jerry and Leslie promote him to partner, but they deny his request, and he resigns, telling his employers that his ideas have made the firm very profitable. Eventually, he admits his infidelity to his longtime friend, Cyrus, who criticizes him not for his infidelity towards his wife, but for his affair with a white woman. Cyrus describes his situation as "jungle fever"—an attraction borne of sexualized racial myths rather than love—and Flipper warns him against telling anyone. Angie's friends are equally disparaging when she discloses her liaison.

Drew learns about Flipper's affair through Cyrus's wife Vera and ejects him from their home, forcing him to move in with his father, Southern Baptist preacher The Good Reverend Doctor Purify, and his mother, Lucinda. Later that night, he confronts Cyrus for betraying his trust and insults Vera for being unable to keep a secret, which damages his friendship with Cyrus. Shortly afterwards, Flipper denounces Cyrus, realizing that he will always side with Vera regardless of her actions. Later, Angie devastates Paulie by ending their longstanding engagement, but when she returns, her father Mike, having discovered her relationship with Flipper, severely beats Angie with his belt and kicks her out.

Flipper attempts to reconcile with Drew at her workplace by bringing her flowers, but Drew declines, feeling he was only attracted to her for being half-white. He and Angie move into an apartment in Greenwich Village, where they encounter discrimination for being a mixed-race couple, such as insults from a waitress named LaShawn at a local restaurant, chastisement from The Good Reverend during the couple's dinner with his parents, and financial issues. One night, Flipper is restrained and almost arrested by two policemen (the same ones from Do the Right Thing) who receive a wrongful report that he was attacking Angie. The couple's issues are compounded by Flipper's feelings for his family and her wanting to have children of her own, causing their split. Echoing Cyrus's earlier words, Flipper tells Angie their relationship has been based on sexual racial myths and not love. Angie, although upset, accepts that the affair has ultimately run its course.

Later, Flipper's crack-addicted brother Gator steals and sells Lucinda's TV for drugs. Searching all over Harlem, Flipper eventually locates him in a crack house and exasperatedly disowns him. Soon afterwards, Gator returns to his parents' house to ask for money and, after Lucinda refuses, begins ransacking the home. His erratic behavior ignites an altercation that ends with The Good Reverend angrily disowning him before shooting him with a handgun. Gator collapses and dies in Lucinda's arms as The Good Reverend watches remorsefully.

Meanwhile, Paulie's racist Italian-American friends mock the end of his engagement. He asks one of his customers, a friendly black woman named Orin Goode, out on a date, defying Lou. En route to meet Orin, his other customers viciously assault him for attempting an interracial relationship. Although badly beaten, Paulie still arrives for his date with Orin. Mike reluctantly allows Angie to return home, and Flipper, unaware of his own family tragedy, unsuccessfully tries to mend his relationship with Drew. As Flipper leaves from his apartment, a young crack-addicted prostitute propositions him; in response, Flipper embraces her and cries out in anguished torment.

Production
A few months after the murder of Yusuf K. Hawkins on August 23, 1989, Spike Lee began conceptualizing Jungle Fever, jotting down ideas and eventually organizing them into scenes on index cards. Subsequently, he commenced writing dialogue with specific actors in mind, envisioning Wesley Snipes, Ossie Davis, and John Turturro for the roles of "Flipper Purify," "The Good Reverend Doctor Purify," and "Paulie Carbone," respectively. Lee reportedly crafted the character "Vinny," Paulie's tough friend, drawing inspiration from Joseph Fama, the teenager responsible for Hawkins' shooting. Additionally, certain aspects of architect Flipper Purify were influenced by cinematographer Ernest Dickerson, Lee's longtime friend and collaborator, who studied architecture at Howard University.

Principal photography began on August 20, 1990, in New York City, primarily in the Harlem and Bensonhurst districts. Additional scenes were shot in Brooklyn's Flatlands neighborhood, Greenwich Village, and at the San Gennaro street festival in "Little Italy." The Manhattan offices of the Walker Group served as the backdrop for the fictional architecture firm "Mast & Covington." While expanding on the basic script, a significant portion of the film's dialogue was developed during production. In a scene where "Drew" and her friends discuss Flipper’s infidelity, the actresses' performances were largely improvised, creating an emotionally charged conversation that left a strong impression on critics, requiring three days of rehearsal and an entire day to film.

Lee initially filmed a prologue addressing racial issues, but at the encouragement of distributor Universal Pictures, he decided to remove the "offending" scene from the $12.5 million production.

Racism
Lee dedicated the film to Yusuf Hawkins. Hawkins was killed on August 23, 1989, in Bensonhurst, New York by Italian-Americans who said the teenager was involved with a white girl in the neighborhood, though he was actually in the neighborhood to inquire about a used car for sale. According to the New York Daily News, "the attack had more to do with race than romance".

Drugs
In the film, Flipper's brother, Gator, is a crack addict. He is constantly pestering his family members for money. His father has disowned him, but his mother and Flipper still occasionally give him money when he asks.

In an interview with Esquire, Jackson explains that he was able to effectively play the crack addict Gator because he had just gotten out of rehab for his own crack addiction. Because of his personal experience with the drug, Jackson was able to help Lee make Gator's character seem more realistic by helping establish Gator's antics and visibility in the film.

Music
The film's soundtrack was by Stevie Wonder and was released by Motown Records. Although the album was created for the movie, it was released before the movie's premiere in May 1991. It has 11 tracks, all of which are written by Stevie Wonder, except for one. Though some found Wonder's album was unappealing, others believed that it was his best work in years.

The instrumental theme for the film is "Bless the Star" by Terence Blanchard. This theme was used in Mo Better Blues previously but does not appear on either's soundtrack.

Theatrical
Jungle Fever premiered at the Cannes Film Festival on May 16, 1991, and was released in theaters on June 7, 1991. It made $5.3 million in its opening weekend and sparked controversy among viewers. On July 7, 1991, the Los Angeles Times published a full page of letters responding to the film and an earlier article by African-American writer Itabari Njeri, who criticized the film for perpetuating myths about interracial relationships. Film critics recognized Lee as a provocateur and praised the performances.

Critical response
The film garnered mostly positive reviews from critics, with particular praise for Samuel L. Jackson's performance as crack addict Gator, which is often considered to be his breakout role. On Rotten Tomatoes, the film has an approval rating of 80% based on reviews from 49 critics. The site's consensus states: "Jungle Fever finds Spike Lee tackling timely sociopolitical themes in typically provocative style, even if the result is sometimes ambitious to a fault." On Metacritic, the film has a score of 78% based on reviews from 24 critics, indicating "generally favorable reviews".

Roger Ebert of the Chicago Sun-Times gave it three-and-a-half out of four stars and wrote: "Jungle Fever contains two sequences - the girl talk and the crackhouse visit - of amazing power. It contains humor and insight and canny psychology, strong performances, and the fearless discussion of things both races would rather not face."

Accolades

 * 1991 Cannes Film Festival
 * Best Supporting Actor: Samuel L. Jackson
 * Prize of the Ecumenical Jury (Special Mention)
 * Kansas City Film Critics Circle Awards
 * Best Supporting Actor: Samuel L. Jackson
 * National Board of Review
 * 10th Best Film of the Year
 * New York Film Critics Circle Awards
 * Best Supporting Actor: Samuel L. Jackson
 * Political Film Society Human Rights Award

title: Jungle Fever


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Please replace the content of the article with User:Buidhe paid/eula.

Reason: To fix the cleanup banners, I rewrote the article based on reliable sources. Also, I fixed the globalize and OR issues by relying on secondary sources to summarize the situation in the United States rather than citing specific court verdicts. My draft is also restructured to avoid the criticism section. Much of its content is now covered by neutrally stated typical EULA provisions, while other parts are now covered in a Humor section. Buidhe paid (talk) 04:57, 16 May 2024 (UTC)
 * – robertsky (talk) 15:26, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

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Lady Caroline Lamb (film)

Lady Caroline Lamb is a 1972 British epic romantic drama film based on the life of Lady Caroline Lamb, novelist, sometime lover of Lord Byron and wife of politician William Lamb, 2nd Viscount Melbourne (later Prime Minister). The only film written and directed by Robert Bolt, it starred his wife, Sarah Miles, as Lady Caroline, Jon Finch, Richard Chamberlain, Laurence Olivier, Ralph Richardson, John Mills, Margaret Leighton and Michael Wilding.

Plot synopsis
Caroline Ponsonby (Sarah Miles) accepts a marriage proposal from William Lamb (Jon Finch). Despite the misgivings of his mother, the marriage seems happy enough at first, a love match, but on their honeymoon in Italy William becomes concerned about Lady Caroline's wilful behaviour, which leads to a man's death. Back in England William is seen as a political "coming man", respected by parliamentarians both Whig and Tory. Meanwhile Lady Caroline meets the poverty stricken Lord Byron (Richard Chamberlain), and visits his modest flat. To her husband, she claims to find Byron "disturbing" and that she will not see him again.

Byron has a sudden success with his long poem Childe Harold's Pilgrimage, and becomes a wealthy celebrity, feted in society. An early literary superstar, he also becomes an object of fascination among women, some of whom write to him provocative fan letters. Lady Caroline and Byron begin a scandalous affair. Eventually he tires of her, and after she appears with Byron at a Holland House costume ball as a black slave, half naked and covered in greasepaint, she finds herself humiliated and a figure of derision in society.

At the ball, Byron becomes interested in another woman, his future wife, Anne Isabella Millbanke (Silvia Monti). Lady Caroline's behaviour becomes more bizarre when, dressed as a coach boy, she stalks Byron to a ceremonial dinner commemorating Wellington's victory against the French. Crashing the gathering, she interrupts Byron and Millbanke, cutting her forearm with a knife. William is taken to meet King George IV, who pressures him to leave Lady Caroline so he can take up the prestigious post of Chief Secretary for Ireland, but William is reluctant to abandon her.

Lady Caroline's mental health has deteriorated further but, with the support of her husband, she appears to recover. However, after she understands that her notoriety is undermining her husband's career, her wilfulness returns. She flees to France, where she has a brief affair with Wellington. Spurned by him, she returns to England and prepares a legal separation, with the approval of William's mother. Lady Caroline descends further into despair and illness, dying apparently from a broken heart.

Cast

 * Sarah Miles as Lady Caroline Lamb
 * Jon Finch as William Lamb
 * Richard Chamberlain as Lord Byron
 * John Mills as Canning
 * Margaret Leighton as Lady Melbourne
 * Pamela Brown as Lady Bessborough
 * Silvia Monti as Miss Millbanke
 * Ralph Richardson as King George IV.
 * Laurence Olivier as Duke of Wellington
 * Michael Wilding as Lord Holland
 * Peter Bull as Minister
 * Charles Carson as Potter
 * Sonia Dresdel as Lady Pont
 * Nicholas Field as St. John
 * Trevor Peacock as Boxing Agent
 * Norman Mitchell as Waiter
 * Bernard Kay as Benson
 * Caterina Boratto

Background
The film was the directorial debut of screenwriter Robert Bolt and starred his wife Sarah Miles in the title role. Bolt said he was attracted to the story of Lamb because it "was funny, touching and entertaining" and felt the movie was about "the struggle between the romantics of the world and the classicists.... The classical, ignoble view of life, as espoused by Wellington in the film, keep society going... but it's the romantics, like Caroline, who drive life, who instigate new ideas, and who often are the true geniuses."

Bolt wrote the script as a vehicle for Miles and decided to direct himself. Fernando Ghia agreed to produce. Bolt said it was difficult to raise finance because people said they had not heard of Lady Caroline Lamb. In July 1971 it was announced the film, then called Lamb would be the first film financed by Tomorrow Entertainment, a subsidiary of General Electric, in association with Pulsar Productions and Vides Cinematographa of Rome. Richard Chamberlain and Sarah Miles would star, with cameos from Laurence Olivier, Margaret Leighton and John Mills.

However these plans fell through. Eventually finance was raised from Anglo-EMI and General Electric, along with Franco Cristaldi in Italy. Bolt had to waive all his fee in order to keep artistic control. EMI's investment, through Nat Cohen, was reportedly £250,000 and was covered by pre-sales overseas.

Timothy Dalton was originally cast as Lamb. However Bolt then decided to cast Jon Finch in the role. Dalton sued and won damages.

"I've been playing zanies and eccentrics for the past few years," said Chamberlain, "so Byron is new for me. He was like this incredible pop star."

Production
Filming started 20 September 1971 at Pinewood Studios. By that stage Bolt said he had been working on the film for ten months.

"I'm not a good director but I know what the author intended", said Bolt. He elected to use new collaborators rather than David Lean's crew apart from Norman Savage, who died shortly after the film premiered. Filming was plagued by the presence of David Whiting who was working as an assistant to Miles and Bolt.

One scene was cut after it earned the film an X-Certificate; Bolt refused to re-shoot it, which meant that several crucial moments of exposition, much of it necessary for understanding the film's narrative, were left out.

Bolt did not direct another film. "Never again", he remarked years later.

The film is also notable because it is the last film in which Michael Wilding appeared, in a cameo with his last wife, Margaret Leighton, who played Lady Melbourne. The film score was composed by Richard Rodney Bennett, who later based a concert work, Elegy for Lady Caroline Lamb for viola and orchestra, on some of the material.

Critical
Praise came for Laurence Olivier's cameo as the Duke of Wellington, with Philip French of The Times writing that "... Olivier's brief appearance as the Duke of Wellington is a beautifully witty and rounded characterization that is worth the price of the admission in itself".

The Los Angeles Times called it "beautiful but dumb."

Pauline Kael felt Bolt "thrashes about from one style and point of view to another. The film seems to have been made by a square Ken Russell; Bolt tries for romantic excess, but he can’t get anything warmed up. His Caroline Lamb is an hysterical fool but also a misunderstood free spirit struggling against a hypocritical society—a sort of Regency Zelda. Sarah Miles acts like a dizzy shopgirl dreaming of being a great lady, and falling flat even in her dreams; as Byron, Richard Chamberlain scowls and sneers."

Box office
The film was one of the most popular films of 1973 at the British box office. In November 1973 Nat Cohen of Anglo-EMI said "we've done very well with Lady Caroline Lamb which turned out to be popular entertainment." However the film was a commercial disappointment in the US. Bolt and Ghia would collaborate again on The Mission.

Awards
It was nominated for three BAFTA awards.

title: Lady Caroline Lamb (film)


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Lady Caroline Lamb

Lady Caroline Lamb (née Ponsonby; 13 November 1785 – 25 January 1828) was an Anglo-Irish aristocrat and novelist, best known for Glenarvon, a Gothic novel. In 1812, she had an affair with Lord Byron, whom she described as "mad, bad, and dangerous to know". Her husband was the Honourable William Lamb, who after her death became 2nd Viscount Melbourne and British prime minister.

Family background
Lamb was the only daughter of Frederick Ponsonby, 3rd Earl of Bessborough, an Anglo-Irish peer, and Henrietta, Countess of Bessborough. She was known as the Honourable Caroline Ponsonby until her father succeeded to the earldom in 1793. While her brother, Frederick Cavendish Ponsonby, was severely injured in the Battle of Waterloo, in the days after the battle, she had an affair with the Duke of Wellington. She was related to other leading society ladies and was the niece of Georgiana Cavendish, Duchess of Devonshire, and cousin (by marriage) of Annabella, Lady Byron. She was related to Sarah Ponsonby, one half of the Ladies of Llangollen, and Diana, Princess of Wales.

She was never Viscountess Melbourne because she died before Melbourne succeeded to the peerage.

Youth and education
As a small child, Lamb was considered delicate and for her health spent much time in the country. She travelled with her mother and other family to Italy, where she recovered from an illness caused by worms that nearly ended her life. After returning with her mother to England, she rejoined a lively group of children who lived at Devonshire House and Roehampton, her cousins, the children of William Cavendish, 5th Duke of Devonshire: by his first marriage, to Lady Georgiana Spencer, three children, Lady Georgiana ("Little G"), Lady Harriet Cavendish ("Hary-o"), and Lord Hartington ("Hart", later the 6th Duke of Devonshire); and by his mistress and second wife, Lady Elizabeth Foster, two children, Augustus Clifford and Caroline St Jules, later wife of George Lamb. During childhood, she became particularly close to Lady Harriet, who was only three months older than her. Her behaviour reportedly grew increasingly troublesome to her family, and she experimented with sedatives like laudanum and had a special governess to control her.

Lady Morgan reported in her memoirs that Lady Caroline told her that she had grown up as a tomboy and was unable to read or write until adolescence. As a child, Lady Caroline considered being able to wash a dog one of her most satisfying accomplishments. While many scholars have accepted that (and other melodramatic claims made by Lady Morgan), published works of correspondence about her family members make it extremely unlikely. The grandmother she shared with her Cavendish cousins, the Dowager Lady Spencer, was zealously dedicated to promoting education and later employed their governess as her own companion. The governess was Miss Selina Trimmer, the daughter of Mrs Sarah Trimmer, a well-known and respected author of moral tales for children. She taught them an extensive curriculum, considerably beyond mere literacy. There is a published letter that Lady Caroline wrote on 31 October 1796 (just before her eleventh birthday) that not only demonstrates her literacy but also shows a merciless wit and talent for mimicry.

Lady Caroline was exceptionally well educated at home. She also attended a school in Hans Place, Knightsbridge, London, the successor to Reading Abbey Girls' School, where she was taught by Frances Arabella Rowden. Rowden was not only a published poet, but also, according to another pupil, Mary Russell Mitford, "she had a knack of making poetesses of her pupils".

In her early adult years, Lady Caroline not only wrote prose and poetry, but also took to sketching portraiture. She spoke French and Italian fluently, was skilled at Greek and Latin and also enjoyed music and drama.

Marriage and family
In June 1805, at the age of nineteen, Lady Caroline Ponsonby married William Lamb, a rising politician and heir to the 1st Viscount Melbourne. Although their meeting had been shrewdly orchestrated by William Lamb's mother, theirs was a love match. The couple had become "mutually captivated" during a visit to Brocket Hall in 1802 and for many years the pair enjoyed a happy marriage. In 1809, his brother George married her namesake cousin Caroline St Jules.

Caroline gave birth to a stillborn child in January 1806, and she and William later had a son, George Augustus Frederick, born on 11 August 1807, and a premature daughter, born in 1809, who died within 24 hours. Lady Caroline suffered long recovery periods after each birth.

Her son was born with severe mental problems. Although most aristocratic families typically sent such relatives to institutions, the Lambs cared for their son at home until his eventual death in 1836, eight years after Lady Caroline's death. The stress of their son's ill health, combined with William Lamb's consuming career ambitions, drove a wedge between the couple. A further difficulty was that William's siblings all detested Caroline, whom they called "the little beast", and she and her mother-in-law had hated each other from the start. Their lifelong enmity was reportedly a great cause of unhappiness to Caroline.

Relationship with Lord Byron
From March to August 1812, Lady Caroline embarked on a well-publicised affair with Lord Byron. He was 24, and she was 26. She spurned his attention on their first meeting, which was at a society event at Holland House. According to the memoirs of her friend Sydney, Lady Morgan, Lady Caroline claimed she coined the phrase "mad, bad, and dangerous to know" soon after she had met the poet. It became his lasting epitaph, but there is no contemporary evidence to prove that she coined the famous phrase at the time. She wrote him a fan letter. His response was to visit her because of her high social status and then to pursue her passionately. Lady Caroline and Lord Byron publicly decried each other as they privately pledged their love over the following months. Byron referred to Lamb as "Caro", which she adopted as her public nickname. After Byron ended the affair, her husband took Lady Caroline to Ireland. The distance did not cool Lady Caroline's interest in the poet, and she and Byron corresponded constantly during her exile. When Lady Caroline returned to London in 1813, however, Byron made it clear that he had no intention of restarting their relationship. That spurred increasingly-public attempts to reunite with her former lover. Matters came to a head at a ball in honour of the Duke of Wellington when Byron publicly insulted Lady Caroline, who responded by breaking a wine glass and trying to slash her wrists. She did not seriously injure herself, and it is most unlikely that she had any suicidal intentions, but her reputation was damaged and her mental stability was questioned. Byron himself referred to it as a theatrical performance: "Lady Caroline performed the dagger scene" (a reference to Macbeth).

Lady Caroline's obsession with Byron would define much of her later life, as well as influencing both her and Byron's works. They would write poems in the style of each other about each other and even embed overt messages to one another in their verse. After a thwarted visit to Byron's home, Lady Caroline wrote "Remember Me!" into the flyleaf of one of Byron's books. He responded with the hate poem: "Remember thee! Remember thee!; Till Lethe quench life's burning stream; Remorse and shame shall cling to thee, And haunt thee like a feverish dream! Remember thee! Ay, doubt it not. Thy husband too shall think of thee! By neither shalt thou be forgot, Thou false to him, thou fiend to me!"

Her cousin Harriet (now Lady Granville) with whom Lady Caroline's relationship had deteriorated after childhood, visited her in December 1816 and was so incredulous at her unrepentant behaviour that she ended her description of the visit in a letter to her sister, "I mean my visits to be annual".

Literary career
Lady Caroline Lamb was noted to have been involved in a few different literary circles that met in the Holland House, Lady Charleville's, Lord Ward's, Lord Lansdowne's and others of similar repute. Lady Caroline's most famous work is Glenarvon, a Gothic novel that was released in 1816 just weeks after Byron's departure from England. Although published anonymously, Lady Caroline's authorship was an open secret. It featured a thinly disguised pen-picture of herself and her former lover, who was painted as a war hero who turns traitor against Irish nationalism. The book was notable for featuring the first version of the Byronic hero outside of Byron's own work as well as a detailed scrutiny of the Romantic period and, more specifically, the Ton. Lady Caroline included scathing caricatures of several of those prominent society members. One of them, the Countess of Jersey, cancelled Lady Caroline's vouchers to Almack's in retribution for her characterisations. This was the opening salvo in a backlash that found Lady Caroline outcast from fashionable society: although her sister-in-law, Emily Lamb, Countess Cowper, got Lady Caroline readmitted to Almack's in 1819, her reputation never fully recovered.

Byron responded to the novel; "I read Glenarvon too by Caro Lamb….God damn!" The book was a financial success that sold out several editions but was dismissed by critics as pulp fiction. However, Goethe deemed it worthy of serious literary consideration.

In 1819, Lady Caroline mimicked Byron's style in the narrative poem "A New Canto". Years before, Lady Caroline had impersonated Byron in a letter to his publishers to have them send her a portrait of Byron. It worked, and the tone and substance of her request fooled them into sending the painting. She used that skill to respond to Byron's "Don Juan I and II". Lady Caroline was most concerned with the allusions Byron had made about her; for example, the line "Some play the devil—and then write a novel" from "Don Juan II". In "A New Canto", Lady Caroline wrote – as Byron – "I'm sick of fame; I'm gorged with it; so full I almost could regret the happier hour; When northern oracles proclaimed me dull." Byron never publicly responded to the poem. A reviewer of the time opined, in part; "The writer of this lively nonsense has evidently intended it as an imitation of Lord Byron. It is a rhapsody from beginning to end."

Lady Caroline published three additional novels during her lifetime: Graham Hamilton (1822), Ada Reis (1823), and Penruddock (1823).

Later life and death
Byron's confidante and close friend was his wife's maternal aunt, William Lamb's own mother, the colourful Elizabeth Lamb, Viscountess Melbourne. Lady Melbourne had been instrumental in bringing about the politically-advantageous marriage of her son to Lady Caroline, despite disliking both her and her mother.

However, once Lady Caroline had begun her affair with Byron, her mother-in-law began a long and blatant campaign to rid her son of his wife. As Lord David Cecil remarks, she had long since concluded that Caroline deserved all her misfortunes. William Lamb refused to submit and regretted that his mother had conspired against his wife with Byron. Calling Byron treacherous, William Lamb was supportive of his wife to her death.

Ultimately, it was Lady Caroline who prevailed on her husband to agree to a formal separation in 1825. Both parties had had numerous extramarital affairs by then, and Lamb had long been known to eschew duplicity. She took up permanent residence at Brocket Hall. Her struggle with mental illness became more pronounced in her last years and was complicated by her abuse of alcohol and laudanum. By 1827, she was under the care of a full-time physician as her body, which had always been frail, began to shut down and she retained fluids (a condition then known as dropsy, and now known as oedema). William Lamb was now Chief Secretary for Ireland and made a perilous crossing to be by her side when Lady Caroline died on 25 January 1828.

Lady Caroline was buried in the graveyard of St Etheldreda's Church in Hatfield; her husband was later buried within the church.

In popular culture
The 1905 novel The Marriage of William Ashe by Mary Augusta Ward was based on Lady Caroline and her husband.

The 1964 historical novel This for Caroline by Doris Leslie is based on her life.

In 1972, the film Lady Caroline Lamb was released with Sarah Miles in the lead role and Richard Chamberlain as Byron.

In 2003, the BBC broadcast Byron with Jonny Lee Miller in the title role and Camilla Power as Lady Caroline Lamb.

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Iranian Georgians

Iranian Georgians or Persian Georgians (ირანის ქართველები; ) are Iranian citizens who are ethnically Georgian, and are an ethnic group living in Iran. Today's Georgia was subject to Iran in the ancient times under the Achaemenid and Sassanian empires and from the 16th century till the early 19th century, starting with the Safavids in power and later Qajars. Shah Abbas I, his predecessors, and successors, relocated by force hundreds of thousands of Christian, and Jewish Georgians as part of his programs to reduce the power of the Qizilbash, develop industrial economy, strengthen the military, and populate newly built towns in various places in Iran including the provinces of Isfahan, Mazandaran and Khuzestan. A certain number of these, among them members of the nobility, also migrated voluntarily over the centuries, as well as some that moved as muhajirs in the 19th century to Iran, following the Russian conquest of the Caucasus. The Georgian community of Fereydunshahr have retained their distinct Georgian identity to this day, despite adopting certain aspects of Iranian culture such as the Persian language.

Safavid era
Most likely, the first extant community of Georgians within Iran was formed following Shah Tahmasp I's invasions of Georgia and the rest of the Caucasus, in which he deported some 30,000 Georgians and other Caucasians back to mainland Safavid Iran. The first genuine compact Georgian settlements however appeared in Iran in the 1610s when Shah Abbas I relocated some two hundred thousand from their historical homeland, eastern Georgian provinces of Kakheti and Kartli, following a punitive campaign he conducted against his formerly most loyal Georgian servants, namely Teimuraz I of Kakheti and Luarsab II of Kartli. Most of modern-day Iranian Georgians are the latter's descendants, although the first large movements of Georgians from the Caucasus to the heartland of the Safavid empire in Iran happened as early as during the rule of Tahmasp I. Subsequent waves of large deportations after Abbas also occurred throughout the rest of the 17th, but also the 18th and 19th centuries, the last ones by the Qajar dynasty. A certain amount also migrated as muhajirs in the 19th century to Iran, following the Russian conquest of the Caucasus. The Georgian deportees were settled by the Shah's government into the scarcely populated lands which were quickly made by their new inhabitants into the lively agricultural areas. Many of these new settlements were given Georgian names, reflecting the toponyms found in Georgia. During the Safavid era, Georgia became so politically and somewhat culturally intertwined with Iran that Georgians replaced the Qizilbash among the Safavid officials, alongside the Circassians and Armenians. During his travels the Italian adventurer Pietro Della Valle claimed that there was no household in Persia without its Georgian slaves, noticing the huge amounts of Georgians present everywhere in society. The later Safavid capital, Isfahan, was home to many Georgians. Many of the city's inhabitants were of Georgian, Circassian, and Daghistani descent. Engelbert Kaempfer, who was in Safavid Persia in 1684-85, estimated their number at 20,000. Following an agreement between Shah Abbas I and his Georgian subject Teimuraz I of Kakheti ("Tahmuras Khan"), whereby the latter submitted to Safavid rule in exchange for being allowed to rule as the region's wāli (governor) and for having his son serve as dāruḡa ("prefect") of Isfahan in perpetuity, a Georgian prince converted to Islam served as governor. He was accompanied by a certain number of soldiers, and they spoke in Georgian among themselves. There must also have been some Georgian Orthodox Christians. The royal court in Isfahan had a great number of Georgian ḡolāms (military slaves) as well as Georgian women. Although they spoke Persian or Turkic, their mother tongue was Georgian.

During the last days of the Safavid empire, the Safavids arch enemy, namely the neighboring Ottoman Turks, as well as neighboring Imperial Russia, but also the tribal Afghans from the far off easternmost regions of the empire took advantage of Iranian internal weakness and invaded Iran. The Iranian Georgian contribution in wars against the invading Afghans was crucial. Georgians fought in the battle of Golnabad, and in the battle of Fereydunshahr. In the latter battle they brought a humiliating defeat to the Afghan army.

In total, the Persian sources mention that during the Safavid era 225,000 Georgians were transplanted to mainland Iran during the first two centuries, while the Georgian sources keep this number at 245,000.

Afsharid era
During the Afsharid dynasty, 5,000 Georgian families were moved to mainland Iran according to the Persian sources, while the Georgian sources keep it on 30,000 persons.

Qajar era
During the Qajar dynasty, the last Iranian empire that would, despite very briefly, have effective control over Georgia, 15,000 Georgians were moved to Iran according to the Persian sources, while the Georgian ones mention 22,000 persons. This last large wave of Georgian movement and settlement towards mainland Iran happened as a result of the Battle of Krtsanisi in 1795.

Modern Iran
Despite their isolation from Georgia, many Georgians have preserved their language and some traditions, but embraced Islam. The ethnographer Lado Aghniashvili was first from Georgia to visit this community in 1890.

In the aftermath of World War I, the Georgian minority in Iran was caught in the pressures of the rising Cold War. In 1945, this compact ethnic community, along with other ethnic minorities that populated northern Iran, came to the attention of the Soviet as a possible instrument for fomenting unrest in Iranian domestic politics. While the Soviet Georgian leadership wanted to repatriate them to Georgia, Moscow clearly preferred to keep them in Iran. The Soviet plans were abandoned only after Joseph Stalin realized that his plans to obtain influence in northern Iran foiled by both Iranian stubbornness and United States pressure.

In June 2004, the new Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili, became the first Georgian politician to have visited the Iranian Georgian community in Fereydunshahr. Thousands of local Georgians gave the delegation a warm welcome, which included waving of the newly adopted Georgian national flag with its five crosses. Saakashvili who stressed that the Iranian Georgians have historically played an important role in defending Iran put flowers on the graves of the Iranian Georgian dead of the eight years long Iran–Iraq War.

Notable Georgians of Iran

Many Iranian military commanders and administrators were (Islamized) Georgians. Many members of the Safavid and Qajar dynasties and nobility had Georgian blood. In fact, the heavily mixed Safavid dynasty (1501-1736) was of partial Georgian origins from its very beginning.

List of Iranian Georgians
Military: Allahverdi Khan, Otar Beg Orbeliani, Rustam Khan the sipahsalar, Imam-Quli Khan, Yusef Khan-e Gorji, Grigor Mikeladze, Konstantin Mikeladze, Daud Khan Undiladze, Rustam Khan the qullar-aqasi, Eskandar Mirza (d. 1711), Bektash of Kakheti, Kaikhosro of Kartli, Shah-Quli Khan (Levan of Kartli), Eskandar Mirza (Prince Aleksandre of Georgia), Prince Rostom of Kartli, Vsevolod Starosselsky

Arts: Aliquli Jabbadar, Antoin Sevruguin, Nima Yooshij, Siyâvash, Ahmad Beg Gorji Aktar (fl. 1819) and his brother Mohammad-Baqer Beg "Nasati”,

Royalty/nobility: Bijan Beg Saakadze, Semayun Khan (Simon II of Kartli), Otar Beg Orbeliani, Abd-ol-Ghaffar Amilakhori, Sohrab I, Duke of Araghvi (Zurab), Pishkinid dynasty, Haydar Mirza Safavi, Safi of Persia, Dowlatshah, Gurgin Khan (George XI of Kartli), Imām Qulī Khān (David II of Kakheti), Bagrat Khan (Bagrat VII), Constantine Khan (Constantine I), Mahmād Qulī Khān (Constantine II of Kakheti), Ivan Aleksandrovich Bagration, Nazar Alī Khān (Heraclius I of Kakheti), 'Isa Khan Gorji (Prince Jesse of Kakheti), Isā Khān (Jesse of Kakheti), Princess Ketevan of Kakheti, Shah-Quli Khan (Levan of Kartli), Manuchar II Jaqeli, Eskandar Mirza (Prince Aleksandre of Georgia), Shah Nawaz (Vakhtang V of Kartli), Mustafa, fourth son of Tahmasp I, Heydar Ali, third son of Tahmasp I.

Academics: Parsadan Gorgijanidze, Jamshid Giunashvili, Mohammad-Taqi Bahar, Professor Leila Karimi

Politicians/officials: Shahverdi Khan (Georgian), Manouchehr Khan Gorji (Motamed-od-dowleh), Amin al-Sultan, Bahram Aryana, Vakhushti Khan Orbeliani, Ahmad ibn Nizam al-Mulk, Ishaq Beg (Alexander of Kartli, d. 1773), Bijan Beg (son of Rustam Khan the sipahsalar), 'Isa Khan Gorji, Otar Beg Orbeliani,

Others: Undiladze, Mahmoud Karimi Sibaki

The names of actors Cyrus Gorjestani and Sima Gorjestani, as well as the late Nematollah Gorji, suggest that they are/were (at least from the paternal side) of Georgian origin. Reza Shah Pahlavi's mother was a Georgian muhajir, who most likely came to mainland Persia after Persia was forced to cede all of its territories in the Caucasus following the Russo-Persian Wars several decades prior to Reza Shah's birth.

For a more lengthy discussion on Georgians and Persia refer to.

Geographic distribution, language and culture
The Georgian language is still used by a minority of people in Iran. The center of Georgians in Iran is Fereydunshahr, a small city, 150 km to the west of Isfahan in the area historically known as Fereydan. In this area there are 10 Georgian towns and villages around Fereydunshahr. In this region the old Georgian identity is retained the best compared to other places in Iran, and most people speak and understand the Georgian language there.

There were other compact settlements in Khorasan at Abbas Abad (half-way between Shahrud and Sabzevar where there remained only one old woman who remembered Georgian in 1934), Mazandaran at Behshahr and Farah Abad, Gilan, Isfahan Province at Najafabad, Badrud, Rahmatabad, Yazdanshahr and Amir Abad. These areas are frequently called Gorji Mahalleh ("Georgian neighborhood"). Many Georgians or Iranians of partial Georgian descent are also scattered in major Iranian cities, such as Tehran, Isfahan, Rasht, Dezful, Karaj and Shiraz.

Most of these communities no longer speak the Georgian language, but retain aspects of Georgian culture and keep a Georgian conscious. Some argue that Iranian Georgians retain remnants of Christian traditions, but there is no evidence for this. Most Georgians in Fereydunshahr and Fereydan speak and understand Georgian. Iranian Georgians observe the Shia traditions and also non-religious traditions similar to other people in Iran. They observe the traditions of Nowruz.

The local self-designation of Georgians in Iran, like the rest of the Georgians over the world is Kartveli (ქართველი, from Kartvelebi, Georgian: ქართველები, namely Georgians), although occasionally the ethnonyms Gorj, Gorji, or even Gurj-i (from Persian "Gorji" which means Georgian). They call their language Kartuli (Georgian: ქართული). As Rezvani states, this is not surprising given that all other Georgian dialects in Iran are extinct.

The number of Georgians in Iran is estimated to be over 100,000. According to Encyclopaedia Georgiana (1986) some 12,000–14,000 lived in rural Fereydan c. 1896, and a more recent estimation cited by Rezvani (published 2009, written in 2008) states that there may be more than 61,000 Georgians in Fereydan. Modern-day estimations regarding the number of Iranian Georgians are that they compose over 100,000. They are also the largest Caucasus-derived group in the nation, ahead of the Circassians.

title: Iranian Georgians


text:
Talk:Iranian Georgians

Untitled
Are the Georgians in Iran Muslims or did they retain their Christian religion?
 * Iranian Georgians are Shia Moslems, not a single Christian among them.

00:52, 17 June 2007 (UTC) Babakexorramdin

 * Kinebuffalo, it is not a tradition to putr Fact tags in talk page. Just aska question and I will be glad to answer you. All sources mentioned state that the Iranian georgians are Shiite Georgians and not a single Christian among them. Moreover all anthropological fieldworks testify this statement.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 11:59, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

moved the some expressions-section here as it was not very helpful ...

 * Sopelea - Fereydoon Shahr
 * raseak - How are you?
 * me tsavel chons - I went home.
 * me meaghors chon ena daysthavlo - I like to learn our language.

Maybe the following is meant:
 * Sopelea - sopelia - this is a village (alternatively: sopeli - the village).
 * raseak - rasa iqm? - what are you doing (or how's it going)?
 * me tsavel chons - me ts'avel chvens - I went (or I am about to go) to our [place].
 * me meaghors chon ena daysthavlo - me msurs chveni ena dawists'avlo - I like to learn our language.

and, is this article about the language or the people? --Lenthe 30 June 2005 20:46 (UTC)

huh? -- Wapcaplet

I'd like to help this page, but I have absolutely no clue what was intended by these examples. Are these phrases that are spoken differently by Georgian speakers in Iran than in Georgian? CyborgTosser (Only half the battle) 19:18, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes Someone has captured some words and phrases in Fereydani Georgian. The language which is posken in the greater Fereydan region of Iran. I know what he meant; though the second translations above in this page are not totally correct. I can help to improve it, but as said before this page is about the people and not language. Babakexorramdin 20:00, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Move
I moved the page to "Iranian Georgians" because the previous title suggested that Georgians are foreigners who just live in Iran rather than actual Iranians.Hajji Piruz 19:35, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Gagimarjos, Zende bashi. Of course Iranian Georgians are part and parcels of Iran and their history shows that they -despite their number- have played a cruxcial role in the Iranian statehood and its defence!

babakexorramdin --Babakexorramdin (talk) 01:32, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

 * here are the translations:

Sopelea - good spelling is sopeli - = Village, but also called to towns notably to fereydunshahr. raseak - good spelling= Ras Ik= roughly what's up= How are you - me tsavel chons - me ts'avel chvens - I went to our (s) [place]. Chon = chven in Georgian of Georgia me meaghors chon ena daysthavlo - Me miqors (miqvars in Georgian of georgia) chon ena davstavlo= - I like to learn our language. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 23:41, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

importance?
the Persons who have rated "Iranian Georgians" as a low-rated topic do not know the Iranian history. This article is also one of the better ref.ed articles. Moreover if ethnic groups are high-rated (Azeris and Fars/Persians were!) why not Georgians? Only a person who thinks of Allahverdi Khan, Emamgholi Khan, Manuchehr Khan, Rostam Khan, Shah Abbas,.... defeating the Afghans, conquering India, defense agianst the Ottomans..... as unimportant---> would think Iranin Georgian topic is unimportant. Well if this is their criteria and knowledge, the reliability of ratings of other pages are also questionable. Babakexorramdin 01:03, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

 * The importance scale is based on how important a certain topic is to a general understanding of Iran, not a detailed understanding. Low is for articles that you dont need to necessarily know about in order to understand Iranian history.Hajji Piruz 06:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * for the same reason I said that. If you see that the Kia-Rostami (with all due respect) uis highly rated, then I think an article in which such a key figures and their services to Iran are present deserve better. Babakexorramdin 10:40, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Look at the projects importance scale: Low: The article is not required knowledge for a broad understanding of Iran.Hajji Piruz 16:13, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I am not here to repeat myself. If you are the same guy as Pejman/Azerbaijani/ Anonymous/ Mohammed which one guy suggested, there is no need to discuss things with you. But if you are not no offense!Babakexorramdin 18:04, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

 * I am Azerbaijani (I had a name change). I'm not going to argue with you about this anymore, but you are preventing the categorization of this article with your POV editing and OR. Your breaking Wikipedia's rules.Hajji Piruz 18:15, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Mr. Azerbaijani you are vandalizing the Wikipedia. I warn you stop your harmful behaviour. You are the reason why it is so difficult to contribute to Wikipedia. A guy like you with obscure agenda tends to divert anything related to Iran, rep. Azerbaijan, etc... having great disrespect towards Iranian ethnic groups other than his!I have nothing against rating. But anything from your hand is unrelaiable because I have great doubts about your level of knowledge Very Sad sad! You had my email so why not be a man and get things right instead of an online vandalizer? Babakexorramdin 19:59, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

This isnt about respect or anything, its a simple WikiProject importance rating, it means absolutely nothing. I said I wasnt going to argue about this with you anymore because it really doesnt matter, it means nothing. The WikiProject lable reflects nothing about anything in real life, its just a way to organize things. But for the record, you should read WP:NPOV, WP:NOR, and WP:NPA. And Wikipedia is not the place for Iranian nationalism, I know you care about Iran and that your doing this for the benefit of Iran, based on our past discussions, but please be objective here, this encyclopedia is not here be a mouth piece for nationalism, its supposed to be informative. This is why I dislike nationalism, because people fight over the most absurd things instead of the facts, I dont care if you dont want this article not to have a rating or what its rating should be. Do whatever you want with it, I'm not going to argue over something as ridiculous as what WikiProject importance rating an article should have. You even took out the articles quality rating, I dont know why, but now this is another of the many many articles contained in WikiProject Iran thats not categorized. Have a good day (or night).

Oh, and why dont you check to see who created this article Iran-Georgia relations (its under construction, maybe you can help instead of arguing about what rating an article has over here, it could use some pictures for example) and then tell me I dont have enough knowledge about the history between Iranians and Georgians.Hajji Piruz 00:45, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * We are not talking about nationalism and whether its good or bad. I simply say that thing about the Safavid emmpire, the battle of fereydunshahr where the Afghans got dfeated (only mentioned here), and the figures such as Allahverdi Khan Undliadze, Emamgholi Khan Undiladze, etc... of of greater importance to understand Iran than (with all due respect) the film-director Kiarostami. As I know in what direction goes the Iran-Georgia Relations article. I wait and then will get involved. I think that they use the entries of Encyclopedia Iranica in it. generally speaking they are good, but there are some mistakes in them. It would be then hard to edit the text due to the wikipedia rules, in them quoting from an already existing source is better than fundamental research. But no problems I'll do my best. regards.

Babakexorramdin 06:29, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, I havent so far I'm using another source, but I was also planning on using Iranica as well. Like I said, its underconstruction.Hajji Piruz 13:25, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * K. Hitchins is the entry in Encyc. Iranic; a good article but makes mistake at some points.Babakexorramdin 01:03, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

the new edits by 67 something and Tirbod
1- I do not understand why are you deleting the whole time that they are twelver shia? Thats a fact. 2- Secondly what are you saying is partly true, but remember that fereydunshahr was not built at that time. It was farah Abad and Behshar and almost all towns with a Carvansarai or a military garrison. If you want to edit something please discuss it first. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 20:03, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Dear Babakexorramdin, I delete the statement about all Georgians being Shia becasue it is undocumented lacks proper citation,and statistics, and it is untrue. Many of Georgians relocated by Shah Abbas I were Jewish, and there are many who still practice the religion of their heritage, after several violent attemtes in Safavid and Qajar period. Look at Comprehensive History of the Jews of Iran: The Outset of the Diaspora, by Dr.Habib Levy ISBN-10: 1568590865 Look for the word Farhabad, and you will find extensive information on Georgians Jews of Farahabad who are up to today a part of Persian Jewry. Thank You, (Tirbod (talk) 21:45, 25 November 2007 (UTC))
 * Well as I saw your editing records you were too busy with Shahmirzad, where a lot of Bahai live. You might be told that there are Bahais among Iranian Georgians. Well there were some rumors that some families in the town of Afus were Bahai, but they themselves deny that and today they act as twelver shias.
 * I know a japanese paper which says that Shah Abbas also has relocated jews. I do not know whether these jews were Georgians or Tats. Even if they were there are today no Georgian jews in Iran and I am not aware if there has ever been a Jewish georgian community in Iran. We know that in the 17th century there were Shia and Orthodox Chiristian Georgian communities in Iran. Now there are only Shiite Georgians in Iran. This is very well researched and documented. Almost all modern sources I told cite that. Only Sharshenidze from Georgia wrote that Fereydani Georgians retain their Christian belief, but I wonder if he himself has had done any fieldworks in fereydan. Moreover it is said that he is mistranslated and misinterpreted. He simply said that some of their habits stems back from the time of their Christian ancestors, like burning candles etc... but we all know that also shiite Moslems burn candles. Conclusively: We know only that there were Shiite and Christian Georgians. But now there are only Shiite Georgians. moreover we have no strong evidences that the Fereydanis have been settled as Christians in the area but we have some evidences that Christian Georgians once lived in Esfahan, Mazandaran and between Shiraz and Esfahan. Those Christians probably became Fars/ mazandarani when they converted to islam. Send me an email and I will send you some papers/info. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 22:00, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Dear Babakexorramdin, This, has nothing to do with Bahai's or Japenese. This is History, and for publishing the truth one has to stick to scientfic method of research, without religous or any other kind of bias. The source I introduced is a good source Comprehensive History of the Jews of Iran: The Outset of the Diaspora, by Dr.Habib Levy page 310.But if someone has difficulty to look at an international scholorly work, there are Iranian sources available also Tarikh Do hezar saleh Sariby Hossein Islami page 273, which is not Japense, or Bahai and it is Iranian, and published in 1372 Iranian calender. Since you have researched this subject I would be intrested to communicate with you regarding this matter. Thanks, (67.164.219.2 (talk) 22:19, 25 November 2007 (UTC))
 * Dear Tirbod I have not read Levy´s book and i cannot say that it is reliable or not. I have researched this issue both by historical documents, official documents, and fieldwork. there are no jews among georgians and there are no stories which tell us that they were in a certain point of time. As I told you there were some jews from Shirvan relocated to mazandaran, but they were Tat and not Georgian. In any case at th present we have only Shia Georgians in Iran. This is a hard fact, and if you say my methods are nit scientific you are insulting all my Iranian georgian colleagues too. Moreover (if true what you are saying) it is very arrogant that Habib Levy as an outsider contest the ethnic history of a living ethnic group, which has preserved its traditions and memoriues very well.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 22:26, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
 * something else: I do not like your statement that he is not bahai or japanese. A bahai can be Iranian (and often is) and a jew can be Iranian too. Moreover I have no problem with the backgrounds of authoors as long as they make sense and honsetly too many of them do not make sense at all. e.g. Brenda Shaffer. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 22:31, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Babakexorramdin, There are two sources already represented, but you are irrationaly persisting that all Gerogians are of a certian religon. Furthurmore there are several valubale historical works that falisfy your claim of all Georgian being Shia. There are more sources available. Please Look up The Politics of Trade in Safavid Iran: Silk for Silver, 1600-1730 By Rudolph P. Matthee page 44. Here is a link to the online copy of this book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=5U0yECMV--wC&printsec=frontcover&sig=tA7-kTWCw61rKOxYHsauyi5ROck#PPA44,M1

Furthur persistance in ignoring such numerus sources, and publishing untrue statement is not something that someone intrested in history and truth would insist on. Thank you for your consideration, (67.164.219.2 (talk) 23:16, 25 November 2007 (UTC))

 * I think you do not understand it. We are here dealing with the description of a LIVING ethnic community and they are Shia Moslems and not jewsih. Do you understand that? Yes they were in the past Zoroastrian and Pagan too. So what? The contemporary Georgian community of Iran is Shia Moslem. If you (still) have Iranian passport go and examine it yourself.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 23:27, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

Now you should give me citation with page number from Rudolph mathee in which it is stated that the contemporary Iranian georgian community is not Shia and there exists jews among them. I doubt it. I have his email and will discuss it with him if he says such a thing. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 23:32, 25 November 2007 (UTC) There has been 3 sources mentioned and even a link to one source. But there is no sign of scientfic skepticism in you. It makes me awfuly sorry to see someone can ignore hard facts. There is overwhelming amount of information against the claim that all Iranian Georgians are Shia, and there is no intrest shown by you to review the facts. It will be proper if some more time will be spent, reviewing the sources, and write material that reflects the truth, not personal bias of the writer. Such unsubstantial material will not last long, and if it dose it is only source misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.219.2 (talk) 23:58, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

I told you give a quote with page number where he says that there are Georgian jews in Iran. And you as a non-Iranian and non-ethnologist are very weak visa vis a LIVING Iranian Georgian in bringing evidences. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:06, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
Iranian Georgians are an ethnic group living in Iran. Today's Georgia was a part of Safavid empire in 17th century and Shah Abbas I relocated Georgians as part of his programs to develope industrial economy, strengthen the military and populate new built cities in various places in Persia including Behshahr and Farahabad in Sari County. Iranian Georgians, were Muslim, Christian,and Jews, who many converted to Twelver Shia Islam, by force or voluntarily in Safavid era. Although the contemporary living Iranian georgian community is Iranian Georgians, were Muslim, Christian,and Jews, who many converted to Twelver Shia Islam, by force or voluntarily Twelver Shia Moslem. , ,

just see the way they edit. Such a hatred. I now think you are Israeli agents with an agenda because you declined the oppurtunity to quote and settle the issue. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:12, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

To Noah Saltzman : your support of vandalism
your colleague is spaming and vandalizng Iranian pages. Your support for him makes you as guilty as him. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:15, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Noah_Salzman" --Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:16, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Babakexorramdin There is no doubt that you are an illitarte, and bigot person. This name calling and attacking people in this manner adds to your academic dishonesty and slanted opinion. I am sorry to see there are untruthful people like you publishing information on Gerogians of Iran. (67.164.219.2 (talk) 00:28, 26 November 2007 (UTC)).

 * thank you for your honest comments. this is how Iranians get threated by people of your countries on a daily basis. BTW I never calimed to be litterate. Yes I am illiterate. Thank you.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:55, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Babakexorramdin, Is this how you argue: Although some suspicious figure argue that there are Georgian Jews in disguise among Iranian Georgians (see talk page) they were unable to provide scientiphic quotes and citations. Although the contemporary LIVING Iranian Georgian community is Twelver Shia Moslem. All Georgian Iranians all over Iran are twelver Shia Moslems and there is no other Georgian community of any other faith anywhere in Iran. Nobody said anything about disgues among Iranian Gerogians. There are Iranian georgians who are muslim, and there some who are jewsish. The Jewish Gerogians are a part of bigger Iranian Jewish community in Iran who are a recognized community even by Iranian goverment, and have a represtetive in Majlis of Iran. You seem to be very anxious about anybody esle besises moslems being among Gerogians which is very questionable. Please help make a prestigous article that covers all the historical facts. I will add information with qoutation. Please act properly and do not distort ingformation or try to scare people off with act of name calling and personal attacks. (67.164.219.2 (talk) 00:45, 26 November 2007 (UTC))
 * This is what I know There are no Georgian jews in Iran.There were once brought jews from historical Georgia to mazandaran (and probably some other places) true. However these people were not categorized as Georgians. the sources clearly distinguishes between 1- Armenians 2- Georgians and 3- Jews. Suggesting that the jews were not georgians but probably Tat (mountain jews). Ok? even if there existed once hypthetically georgian jews in Iran they are assimilated into Moslem persians/Mazandaranis. No one is remained jewish. I would invite you come with me in Iran in search of georgian jews. I really mean it. But belive me I did years of field work and I have not found one. All Iranian Georgians were Shia Moslems. But I tell you I welcome you to come with me and do fieldwork in the search of georgian jews in Iran.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

BTW for further discussion send me an email the same ID in yahoo. thanks--Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Since I was called out by name I will reply: as I said on my talk page I was simply correcting spelling without regard or attention to the politics and edit warring that was already in progress. I will take this moment to kindly remind the participants in this discussion to remain  civil and not make personal  attacks. Our (communal) ability to reach a consensus will be more enjoyable if those guidelines are respected. Peace. —Noah 20:59, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

 * there were no name callings. Did I wanted to go on with your coleague then I was not ashamed to use some juicy name callings. I had no reason to call you names, just warned you do not get involved with the mess your colleague caused.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:06, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

last edit
I think this whould do it and makes everyone happy. Aany more concessions mean lies and I am not going to write wrong information. This should stay: " Iranian Georgians are an ethnic group living in Iran. Today's Georgia was a part of Safavid empire in 17th century and Shah Abbas I relocated Georgians as part of his programs to develop industrial economy, strengthen the military and populate new built cities in various places in Persia including Behshahr and Farahabad in Sari County. in the 17th century the Iranian Georgians were Moslems and Christians. There were also Jewish migrants from historical Georgia, but there is no certainty about their ethnic origins. The contemporary living Iranian Georgian community is exlusively Twelver Shia Moslem. All Georgian Iranians all over Iran are twelver Shia Moslems and there is no other Georgian community of any other faith anywhere in Iran.[1], [2], [3]" --Babakexorramdin (talk) 01:05, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

R. Mathee source
dear Tirbod, I respect R. Mathee. in fact he has been a great teacher to me. but please remember that he is a historian and not an ethnologist. So I wont argue about his historical statements. I do not argue that there were no jews among the migrants but I need proofs that these jews were of georgian ethnicity like the Georgian jews in kutaisi for example. that is for history and interesting. But for the Living community of Iranian georgians the only method to determine is 1- field work (2- in addition to official statistics) and nothing mentiones georgian jews in Iran.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 01:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Just curious. Was this comment on the Mashhad talk page written by you? "[edit] Propaganda The destruction of the city's Jewish population is terribly underplayed and violates NPOV. The Jews were subjected to a horrific pogrom, converted by force, then fled into exile. (How they got away is an epic story and would make a fascinating Hollywood tale, but perhaps isn't for this specific article.) I suggest that this POV tag remain until the article is fixed.68.5.64.178 20:24, 24 August 2007 (UTC)" maybe you like it but the story of jadidi islamized jews is true. I did researched it somehow. not only in mashhad but also in some other cities of iran. The hollywood thing however makes it anti-Iranianist. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 01:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I'd basically agree with Babakexorramdin. The wave of deportation might well have affected also Jews, Armenians, and other ethnicities living in Georgia because the region of Kakheti itself was so multiethnic. But all this is just a matter of conjecture. All we know for sure is that modern Iranian Georgians are overwhelmingly Shia Muslim. The fact that they retain some remanants of Christian traditions is not surprising at all. Georgian mountaineers of Svaneti and Khevsureti have been Christians for over a millennia, but numerous pagan pre-Christian beliefs have survived.--KoberTalk 05:45, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
 * His problem is not elements of Christianity. Even Persians have some elements from it see Persian poems talking about a light on the cross, the breath of the christ etc... burning candles etc... But the satement that there are Iranian georgians today who are jewish is simply wrong. The only non-Shia religion which should be taken into consideration is Bahai amonung the allegdely Bahai families in Afus.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 10:01, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

There was a big group of Gerogian Jews (estmimated around 8000) from the city of Zakem who immigrated to Iran by Shah abbas I invitation. There is elaborated account of this event. These people helped Shah Abbas I who himself was from a Gerogian mother from Mazandaran. They helped him against Shah Tahmoorth and Shah made them his Shah-Sevens, and gave them a nice place in Farahabad. They were in Silk business for a long time and they never converted to Islam unlike the rest of Georgians. These people are a part of Iranian Jewish community now. They lived in Mazandaan until the communties started immigrating to Tehran and abroad. Look up:Comprehensive History of the Jews of Iran: The Outset of the Diaspora, by Dr.Habib Levy, and sevral other sources are available aslo. I understand that alot of Gerogians converted to Islam and they are proud of it and they like to announce thier religon on wikipedia. But it is unfair, and far from truth to ignore a big community. You mentioned they were from a diffrent ethnicity, thats ture.Jews are ethnicity group, Iranian jews, Morrocan Jews,Iraqi Jews and finaly Georgian Jews. They were Jewish and from Jewish stock, but they were Georgian and there is still a Georgian jewish community in Gerogia. I understand that religion unlike other place is not a personal matter in Iran. But unlike Bahais Jews are recognized by Iranian goverment and they are respected. Even muslim trace back their religion to religion of Abraham and Moses. Plus I am pretty sure nobody will persecute you and your community becasue there were Georgian Jews who immigrated to Iran along the rest of Georgians who were relocated to Iran. You are clearly not Jewish and nobody would assume you are. But please give the other people the right to live and preserve their identity as you do. I am sure your religous leader would tell you the same thing.(67.164.219.2 (talk) 21:23, 26 November 2007 (UTC))

 * Some corrections: 8000 is not a big group. There were approximately 300 000 Georgians relocated. 2- It is Zegem and not Zakem. 3-Shahsevans are now all Moslems, they live now in different places in Iran. Speak Turkic and are Shia Moslems. 3- This is Tahmures which in Georgian is pronounced Teimuraz. If your spellings are from levy, it clearly shows his lack of knowledge or better said his lack of respect that he does not intentionally write the truth as he has Iranian roots himself.
 * Moreover the Georgian ethncity of these jews are still unclear to me. In the Caucasus there are two kinds of jews 1- mountain jews who speak a Farsi-related language called tat and 2- Georgian jews. From the description of the locus of their homeland you give it is obvious that they were mountain jews, because the Georgian jews lived further West in Kutaisi.
 * But now here is my problem. I cannot escape from the impression that you are an anti-Iranianist zionist. Your bigotry is enormous. You say my religious leader. are you sure that I am a practizing religious person? Are you sure that I am political and are you sure that I follow a certain person as religious leader? All are your prejudices. Not surprizingly because most of your type hate Iranians blindly.
 * Iranians, Georgians or not do not hate their jewish compatriots. In fact the Iranian jews are part of the Iranian nation. It is true that too many now deny their roots and cheer for israel and bush to bomb Iranians, but many dont and we should respect it. It were Cyrus the great and Xerxes who rescued the Jews. And funnily these were the Anti-Iranianist jewish lobby who insulted him by the movie 300.  And I tell you this I would like to invistigate this issue. In fact i would love to discover new facts but- I do not like your finger pointing like oh oh bad Georgian moslems forced the jews changed their religion and now they are denied their existence. 2 I still should meet an Iranian Jew who claims to be Georgian. I still have no reasons to accept that there were/ are Georgian jews in Iran. All Georgians in Iran are Shiite Moslems. This is an ethnological fact and a very solid fact. I am not proud of that nor traumatic about that, simply this is a hard hard fact.
 * You have read something but simply do not know as much as others know in this subject. You are too arrogant that you think the others are dumb and ignorant and you (the true ignoorant) know it better. By false assertions even you disrespected valuable and respected historiansd such as R. Mathee. Please do not be so racist and hatred. let your racism and hatred fare away. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 00:03, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Dear Babakexorramdin, I did not mean to make you upset in anyway. I just assumed you are a religous person becasue the passion you showed on the subject of religion so I asked you to check the issue with the religous authorities you respect. But, your relgous beliefs are your personal matter, and none of concerns. I think your assumption and accusation about me is totaly irrelevant to our discussion, and just for your information mostly wrong. I like Iranians and Georgians and every human who has dignity. Nevertheless, thank you for the great information on Iranian Georgians. I personaly appriciate your efforts to publish this information. I will check the page reguraly for updates. Good Luck on your researchs and publication. (67.164.219.2 (talk) 06:22, 27 November 2007 (UTC))

 * My emphasis on religion is purely ethnologic. My only concern is to give true information.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 10:02, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Move to Georgian-Iranians
I think it would be best if this article would be moved to Georgian-Iranians because they are Iranians of Georgian descent rather than Georgians of Iranian descent. Also, most articles have the nationality the group belongs to at the end (e.g. Mexican Americans, Armenian-Iranians, Irish Canadian etc.) Parthian Scribe 02:14, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Parthian Scribe, he is correct. Georgian-Iranian would be the correct term. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.130.188.108 (talk) 15:17, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Organization and coherence of writing
The language of this article is unclear in some parts. I made a couple of minor changes to improve the language but left the ideas intact. The wording like "Regardless of their ethnicity" for example was unnecessary because there was nothing about ethnicity in the prior sentences.(24.130.188.108 (talk) 15:38, 8 December 2008 (UTC))
 * It was written on purpose like that. The thing is that while ago an uniformed POV pusher came up and claimed that there were Jews and Muslims among the relocated Georgians. The thing was that his source said that among the relocated persons from Georgia (and neighborhood) in the Caucasus were also jews and Moslems. It did not say that these were Georgian Muslims or Georgian Jews. It is also very unlikely. Only for the sake of compromise to that annoying person the sentence was made like that. What is your solution for this problem? While it is very probable that there wer georgian Muslims among them, it seems not probable that there were Georgian jews (as an ethnic group) among them. It is more probable that the Jewish part was composed of the Tat speaking Jews. What should we do?--Babakexorramdin (talk) 21:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I read your discussion on this page. There are a few cases mentioned and they are clear in using the term "Georgian Jews." Do you have any sources that negates this fact? Regarding your speculations you can conduct a research, but as you well know new research can not be published here. It appears the Jewish community was relocated to Farahabad in Mazandaran, while others were settled in other areas. you can indicate that various communities were settled in different locations. Please, leave the phrasing as is until you find published scholarship negating what is mentioned. In any case please do not compromise the professional language, and language of the article (136.152.153.225 (talk) 01:06, 9 December 2008 (UTC)).

By the way I have tried to acquire copies of sources 2,3, and 4 from University of California libraries, and also worldcat.org, but I could not. Would you please help me to get a hold of a copy of these books. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.152.153.225 (talk) 01:20, 9 December 2008 (UTC)
 * which books? by the way Mathee, indeed an honorable historian, is not an ethnologist or an expert on the Caucasus. He probably meant Jews from Georgia(n) domain. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 02:00, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

There are no anthropological studies or ethnology on this community to my knowledge. I should remind you this is pre-modern era, so respectable historical sources should not be ignored. There are primary sources from 15th century like Kitbi Anusi of Babi Lotf, and Fazli Khuzani that describes the conditions of the Georgian Jewish community of Farahabad in great details. Please look at Aptin Khanbaghi (2006)The Fire, the Star and the Cross: Minority Religions in Medieval and Early. London & New YorkIB Tauris. ISBN 1845110560, pp. 107 and 113. This book also explicitly mentions the community as Georgian Jews. I am interested to see published "ethnological" scholarship that you mentioned. There is way so much evidence on this historical fact so it is proper to discuss this community as Georgian Jews.

By the way are you aware how many Georgian communities live in Iran currently? Also I have difficulty locating these books mentioned as reference: I checked a few libraries and library search engines but these books are non-existing. Do you know how can I access these books? ca you help me find them? (24.130.188.108 (talk) 04:12, 9 December 2008 (UTC))
 * 1) Muliani, S. (2001) Jaygah-e Gorjiha dar Tarikh va Farhang va Tammadon-e Iran. Esfahan: Yekta [The Georgians’ position in the Iranian history and civilization]
 * 2) ^ Rahimi, M.M. (2001) Gorjiha-ye Iran; Fereydunshahr. Esfahan: Yekta [The Georgians of Iran; Fereydunshahr]
 * 3) ^ Sepiani, M. (1980) Iranian-e Gorji. Esfahan: Arash [Georgian Iranians]

 * Well there are some studies done. Those by Georgians from Georgia is often biased. Those by Iranian Georgians themselves are more fair. Rahimi, Sepiani and Muliani are Iranian Georgians. Their books are available in Iran and I have been told thaere are some copies elseweher, notably in Georgia. I doubt that these books are to be get in the USA. USA has posed a scientific embargo on Iran. No exchanges of scientific material is (offcially) allowed. After the detention of the Iranian scientists who wanted to visit a conference in California, also Iran has stopped to exchange with the USA things (officially). There is an entry in Encyclopedia Iranica about Iranian Georgians and if you search the journals online you may find some good articles. Surely I can help you to find them, but do you read and understand Persian? A reletive of mine has them all. --Babakexorramdin (talk) 10:47, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Is it 100% definite that Fereydanis/Iranian Georgians descend from Kakhetians/Kartlians?
Hello,

Is it 100% established that Iranian Georgians primarily descend from these two groups? I was reading some further works by Rezvani (Rezvani, Babak (2008)'The Islamization and Ethnogenesis of the Fereydani Georgians', Nationalities papers. Publisher: Routledge) and he cites the probability that they could be the descendants of Georgians from northern area's of Georgia, based upon several historical sources and surnames amongst Iranian Georgians. Any take on this? Bests - LouisAragon (talk) 01:50, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

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iranian georgians is not correct
iranis kartvelebi means georgians of iran not iranian georgians — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miladlachinani0095 (talk • contribs) 07:57, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Iranian Georgians


text:
Insult

An insult is an expression, statement, or behavior that is often deliberately disrespectful, offensive, scornful, or derogatory towards an individual or a group. Insults can be intentional or unintentional, and they often aim to belittle, offend, or humiliate the target. While intentional insults can sometimes include factual information, they are typically presented in a pejorative manner, intended to provoke a negative emotional response or have a harmful reaction effect when used harmfully. Insults can also be made unintentionally or in a playful way but could in some cases also have negative impacts and effects even when they were not intended to insult.

Insults can have varying impacts, effects, and meanings depending on intent, use, recipient's understanding of the meaning, and intent behind the action or words, and social setting and social norms including cultural references and meanings.

History
In ancient Rome, political speeches and debates were known to include strong harshness and personal attacks. Historians suggest that insults and verbal attacks were common in the political discourse of the time. This practice reflected the highly confrontational nature of political engagement in ancient Rome.

Many religious texts and beliefs have also contributed to views on insults and the implications of making insults in anger. Buddhism teaches 'Right Speech' is a part of the Noble Eightfold Path.

In Christianity, for example, the Sermon on the Mount delivered by Jesus includes teachings on the significance of anger. Jesus emphasized the importance of managing one's emotions and non judgment in this example.

In addition to political contexts, history also reveals unusual instances of insults. The Cadaver Synod, was an event where Pope Stephen VI held a posthumous trial for Pope Formosus in 897 AD. Stephen became the Pope after Pope Formosus and had his body dug up, dressed, and placed on a throne to stand trial even after his death.

Unintentional Insults
An example of an unintentional insult may be not tasting a dessert made by a host. Comments made carelessly can also become unintentional insults. Another example could include comments made carelessly about facial features, personality traits, personal taste (e.g. in music), underestimating personal abilities or interests, asking about involvement in something potentially creating stereotypes, jokes, or even walking away from someone outside are among some things that may cause offence accidentally.

Jocular exchange
Lacan considered insults a primary form of social interaction, central to the imaginary order – "a situation that is symbolized in the 'Yah-boo, so are you' of the transitivist quarrel, the original form of aggressive communication".

Erving Goffman points out that every "crack or remark set up the possibility of a counter-riposte, topper, or squelch, that is, a comeback". He cites the example of possible interchanges at a dance in a school gym: "* A one-liner: Boy: 'Care to dance?' Girl: 'No, I came here to play basketball' Boy: (crumbles)
 * A comeback: Boy: 'Care to dance?' Girl: 'No, I came here to play basketball' Boy: 'Sorry, I should have guessed by the way you're dressed'."

Backhanded compliments
A backhanded (or left-handed) compliment, or asteism, is an insult that is disguised as, or accompanied by, a compliment, especially in situations where the belittling or condescension is intentional.

Examples of backhanded compliments include, but are not limited to:

 * "I did not expect you to ace that exam. Good for you.", which could impugn the target's success as a fluke.
 * "That skirt makes you look far thinner.", insinuating hidden fat, with the implication that fat is something to be ashamed of.
 * "I wish I could be as straightforward as you, but I always try to get along with everyone.", insinuating an overbearing attitude.
 * "I like you. You have the boldness of a much younger person.", insinuating decline with age.

Negging is a type of backhanded compliment used for emotional manipulation or as a seduction method. The term was coined and prescribed by pickup artists. Negging is often viewed as a straightforward insult rather than as a pick-up line, in spite of the fact that proponents of the technique traditionally stress it is not an insult.

Personal attacks
A personal attack is an insult which is directed at some attribute of the person.

The Federal Communications Commission's personal attack rule defined a personal attack as one made upon the honesty, character, integrity, or like personal qualities in the Communications Act of 1934.

Personal attacks are generally considered a fallacy when used in arguments since they do not attempt to debunk the opposing sides argument, rather attacking the qualities of a person.

Sexuality
Verbal insults often take a phallic or pudendal form; this includes offensive profanity, and may also include insults to one's sexuality. There are also insults pertaining to the extent of one's sexual activity. For example, according to James Bloodworth, "incel" “has gradually crept into the vocabulary of every internet troll, sometimes being used against men who blame and harass women for not wanting to sleep with them.”

Entertainment
Insults in poetic form is practiced throughout history, more often as entertainment rather than maliciousness. Flyting is a contest consisting of the exchange of insults between two parties, often conducted in verse and became public entertainment in Scotland in the 15th and 16th centuries. Senna is a form of Old Norse Eddic poetry consisting of an exchange of insults between participants.

O du eselhafter Peierl (Oh, you asinine Peierl), composed by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart, was meant for fun, mocking, scatological humor directed at a friend of Mozart's.

More modern versions include poetry slam, dozens, diss song and battle rap. In the 1980s Masters of the Universe franchise, the character of Skeletor became known for insulting those around him with comedic putdowns. There is also now a comedy genre of insult comedy.

Anatomies

Various typologies of insults have been proposed over the years. Ethologist Desmond Morris, noting that "almost any action can operate as an Insult Signal if it is performed out of its appropriate context – at the wrong time or in the wrong place", classes such signals in ten "basic categories":
 * 1) Uninterest signals
 * 2) Boredom signals
 * 3) Impatience signals
 * 4) Superiority signals
 * 5) Deformed-compliment signals
 * 6) Mock-discomfort signals
 * 7) Rejection signals
 * 8) Mockery signals
 * 9) Symbolic insults
 * 10) Dirt signals

Elizabethans took great interest in such analyses, distinguishing out, for example, the "fleering frump ... when we give a mock with a scornful countenance as in some smiling sort looking aside or by drawing the lip awry, or shrinking up the nose". Shakespeare humorously set up an insult-hierarchy of seven-fold "degrees. The first, the Retort Courteous; the second, the Quip Modest; the third, the Reply Churlish; the fourth, the Reproof Valiant; the fifth, the Countercheck Quarrelsome; the sixth, the Lie with Circumstance; the seventh, the Lie Direct".

Perceptions
What qualifies as an insult is also determined both by the individual social situation and by changing social mores. Thus on one hand the insulting "obscene invitations of a man to a strange girl can be the spicy endearments of a husband to his wife".

title: Insult