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Scottish Greens

The Scottish Greens (also known as the Scottish Green Party; Pàrtaidh Uaine na h-Alba ) are a green political party in Scotland. The party has seven MSPs in the Scottish Parliament as of May 2021. As of the 2022 local elections, the party sits on 13 of the 32 Scottish local councils, with a total of 36 councillors. They held two ministerial posts in the first Yousaf government following a power-sharing agreement with the SNP from August 2021 until the end of the Bute House Agreement in April 2024, marking the first time Green Party politicians formed part of a government in the UK.

The Scottish Greens were created in 1990 when the former Green Party separated into two independent parties, representing Scotland and England and Wales. The party is affiliated to the Global Greens and the European Green Party.

Party membership increased dramatically following the Scottish independence referendum, during which it supported Scotland's independence from the United Kingdom.

Origins in the Ecology Party (1978–1999)
The Scottish Green Party originated as the Scottish branch of the Ecology Party, founded in 1978 by Leslie Spoor. The Ecology Party became the UK Green Party and it remained a constituent party until 1990, when the Scottish Green Party became a separate entity.

The 1990 Highland Regional Council election gave the Greens their first ever councillor in the UK. Roger (aka Rory) Winter, representing the Highland Green Party (Known in Scottish Gaelic as Uainich na Gàidhealtachd), was elected in Nairn. However, Cllr Winter broke away from the Greens in 1991 and continued his four-year term as an Independent Green Highlander.

Successful Scottish elections
In the first election to this Parliament, in 1999, the Scottish Green Party got one Member of the Scottish Parliament (MSP) elected by proportional representation, Robin Harper, the UK's first elected Green parliamentarian.

In the 2003 Scottish Parliament election, the Scottish Greens added six new MSPs to their previous total. The result was a surprise for the party. Afterwards, Harper stood for election for First Minister, securing six votes.

Despite the breakthrough in Holyrood, the party failed to elect any candidates in the 2004 European Parliament election, 2005 Westminster elections.

In the 2007 Scottish Parliament election, the party lost five seats in Holyrood, leaving the party with just two MSPs. The result was disappointing as polls initially suggested the party would remain with seven MSPs. However, in the council elections, taking place under the new Single Transferable Vote voting system, they gained three Councillors on the City of Edinburgh Council and five Councillors on Glasgow City Council.

Co-convenor Robin Harper blamed the loss on spoiled ballot papers and the campaign focusing on larger parties.

Supporters of the first SNP government.

Despite the loss of MSPs, the party gained influence with the new SNP government. On 11 May, the Greens signed an agreement with the Scottish National Party (SNP), which meant that the Greens voted for Alex Salmond as First Minister and supported his initial Ministerial appointments. In return, the SNP backed a climate change bill as an early measure and promised to legislate against ship-to-ship oil transfers in the Firth of Forth. The SNP also agreed to nominate Patrick Harvie, one of the Green MSPs, to convene the Scottish Parliament Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Climate Change.

Differences, primarily over transport policy, were cited for the limited nature of the agreement. But they left open the door to further negotiations should the Scottish Liberal Democrats join the First Salmond government. "Given the present situation that (the SNP) are going to be forming a minority government, it really didn't seem to make sense for us to tie ourselves closely into confidence and supply or into coalition, because we have serious reservations about many SNP policies, particularly their transport policies"During the election, co-convenor Shiona Baird lost her seat, and did not re-stand for election as co-convenor. She was replaced by then Edinburgh councillor Alison Johnstone in November 2007. Robin Harper and Johnstone did not seek re-election in 2008 as co-convenor. While Harvie was the sole nominee for the male co-convenor, there was 3 candidates for female co-convenor: former MSP Eleanor Scott, Glasgow councillor Nina Baker and Edinburgh councillor Maggie Chapman. The role of female co-convenor was won by Scott.

During the 2009 Scottish budget process, the Scottish Greens demanded an £1 billion home insulation programme over 10 years. The SNP Scottish Government offered £22 million for a 'pilot' project. The party decided this compromise was not acceptable.

On 28 January 2009, the two Green MSPs were instrumental in the defeat of the Government's budget. The move surprised some commentators, whose leadership had until this point been marked with increased cooperation with the SNP government.

A slightly amended version of the budget was passed easily the following week with the support of other parties.

2011 Scottish parliament election
At the party's 2010 conference, Robin Harper announced that he would not seek re-election in the 2011 Scottish Parliament election. The party's election campaign was launched with a focus on investment into public services paid for by tax raises. In the end, the party only elected 2 MSPs in the 2011.

Despite not moving forward, the party was the only 'minor' Scottish party which achieved representation in the Scottish Parliament after 2011 when the Scottish Socialist Party, Scottish Senior Citizens Unity Party and others lost seats.

2014 Independence referendum
In November 2013, Edinburgh councillor Maggie Chapman succeeded Glasgow councillor Martha Wardrop as the party's female co-convenor after she did not seek re-election, while Patrick Harvie was re-elected.

During the 2014 Scottish independence referendum, the party participated in the cross-party Yes Scotland campaign in favour of Scottish independence. Co-convenor Patrick Harvie sat on the campaign's advisory board. Briefly, the party withdrew from Yes Scotland. However, the party's 2012 conference overturned the decision. The party also joined the Radical Independence Campaign.

The party's own campaign of 'Green Yes' launched in October 2013, and advocated that only independence could deliver radical change, with Harvie also arguing that the party's vision of independence was progressive, and explicitly not nationalistic. He also argued that devolution did not go far enough to tackle issues important to Scots like austerity.

"For me, it’s got nothing to do with flags, or 300 years of history; it’s about the future. And I think that the best way [...] of changing Scotland"However, some in the party were opposed to independence, including former convenor Robin Harper who said that he would "absolutely vote No". After the independence referendum, the Scottish Greens experienced a massive surge in membership, including future co-leader Lorna Slater. The party claimed that, for a period in the day after the referendum, it gained a member every 15 seconds. The party's then co-convenors, Harvie and Chapman were chosen by the party to serve as its representatives on the post-referendum Smith Commission. The party argued that full powers on income tax, the bulk of welfare policy, energy, transport, employment law and human rights law should be transferred to Holyrood.

2016 Scottish Parliament election and Brexit
In 2015, Maggie Chapman was challenged as co-convenor by activist Zara Kitson in the party's internal elections. The election was notable as it was the first time an incumbent co-convenor faced a serious challenge, all to date had been re-elected as the sole nominees. Chapman was re-elected. In the leadup to the 2016 Scottish Parliament election, the party campaigned with a focus on tax-rises for the rich, with co-convenor Patrick Harvie saying it would be “agenda item one” in any post-election talks with the SNP. The party's selection process of co-convenor Maggie Chapman as lead candidate in the North East Scotland region for the 2016 election attracted controversy.

In the 2016 Scottish Parliament election, the party won 6 more seats, its best result since 2003. The result pushed the party ahead of the Scottish Liberal Democrats in seat numbers, making it the fourth-largest party for the first time. The Scottish Greens also elected the youngest MSP ever, Ross Greer at the age of 21. In the 2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, the party called for a 'Remain' vote. Subsequently, the party began more strongly advocating for a second Scottish independence referendum.

In February 2015, the party announced that it would field candidates in 32 seats for the 2015 United Kingdom general election with 40% of their candidates being women. In 2017 the party generated some controversy by standing only 3 candidates at the general election. In the 2019 general election they contested significantly more seats in 22 constituencies. They failed to win any seats and lost their deposit in every contest.

The 2017 Scottish local elections saw 'real progress' with the party returning 14 councillors across Scotland, with 8 in the City of Edinburgh Council.

Inaugural co-leaders and first Green ministers (2019–present)
The Scottish Greens contested the 2019 European Parliament election in the United Kingdom, with co-convenor Maggie Chapman as lead candidate and rising stars Lorna Slater and Gillian Mackay also on the list. The party failed to elect any MEPs despite other Green parties having significant success across Europe.

In August 2019, a newly adopted constitution by the party led to the 2019 Scottish Green Party co-leadership election, where Patrick Harvie and Lorna Slater were elected as co-leaders with 43.1% and 30.2% respectively.

2021 Scottish Parliament election and power-sharing agreement
In the 2021 Scottish Parliament election, the party won a record eight Holyrood seats. Alison Johnstone was one of the eight MSPs elected for the Scottish Greens in the election, however on 13 May 2021 she gave up her party affiliation in order to become Holyrood's Presiding Officer as the position is a politically neutral role.

After two months of negotiations, on 20 August 2021, the Scottish Greens announced a new power-sharing agreement with the SNP Scottish Government. While not an official coalition, for the first time in Scottish and UK history it offered the Greens two ministerial posts. The agreement saw both parties pledge for a second referendum on Scottish independence, an increase investment in active travel and public transport, enhancing tenants rights, a ten-year £500m Just Transition and establishing a National Care Service. The agreement was approved by 83% of Scottish Green members, and secured a two-thirds majority vote of the party's National Council. This was required under the party's constitution for the agreement to be ratified.

Academic Professor Nicola McEwen suggested that the agreement "sometimes pushes [the SNP] further" particularly on climate, social and fair work policy. She also argues that the two parties had already converged on many issues over the preceding decade. However, critics and supporters of the party agreed that the agreement had allowed the party to have a lot of influence on the Scottish government. After the election of Humza Yousaf as Leader of the Scottish National Party, the Scottish Green Party National Council unanimously voted to direct its MSPs to vote for Yousaf to become First Minister and continue their power-sharing agreement. During the leadership campaign, the party had suggested it would not support a government led by the other candidates. The party's co-leaders served as ministers in the first Yousaf government from August 2021 to April 2024.

In government, the party introduced the first government bill from a Green Minister. On 3 August 2023, Robin Harper, the party's first MSP resigned, claiming the party had 'lost the plot'. Harper announced he would vote Labour in the 2024 UK general election. Nonetheless, the party also enjoyed an unprecedented level of support.

Success in local government
The 2022 Scottish local elections saw a record result for the party, doubling its seat count to 35. The party elected councillors for the first time in North Lanarkshire, South Lanarkshire, Argyll and Bute, Clackmannanshire, Shetland, East Lothian, Moray and the Scottish Borders. The party committed to introduce policies in local government based on climate and social justice.

In the central belt cities, the party also got closer to power, either supporting a minority administration or attempting to form a coalition with the SNP in Glasgow and Edinburgh. In March 2024, the party won its first ever by-election, electing Seonad Hoy as a councillor in Hillhead ward in Glasgow.

End of the Bute House agreement
Following the announcement by Màiri McAllan that the Scottish Government's legally binding target to see a 75% percent reduction in emissions by 2030 would not be achieved and was to be scrapped, an extraordinary general meeting was called by Scottish Green Party members to discuss the future of the agreement. On the 25th April 2024, following a meeting at Bute House, it was decided that the power sharing agreement would come to an end.

The Scottish Greens intend to contest the 2024 United Kingdom general election in Scotland.

Organisation
The Scottish Greens are fully independent, but work closely with the green parties from Ireland: the Green Party Northern Ireland and the Green Party of Ireland. Until October 2022, it also cooperated with the Green Party of England and Wales; this partnership was suspended due to differences of opinion on trans rights. It is a full member of the European Green Party. The party currently has seven MSPs and 36 councillors, but has no representation in Westminster.

Membership
Within days of the Scottish independence referendum being held, the membership swelled to more than 5,000. Launching its manifesto for the 2015 UK general election, the Scottish Greens stated a membership of over 8,500. By October 2015 the party were holding their biggest ever conference, with their membership standing at more than 9,000. In mid-2021 it had fallen back somewhat, reported as standing at 7,500. In April 2023, the number of members had risen to 7,646.

Conferences
The Scottish Greens hold conferences every Spring and Autumn, where members from throughout Scotland attend to deal with all the business of the party, with members voting on conference motions and policy motions.

Internal party bodies
There are two key bodies which steer the party between conferences: party council and the national executive. The party council can, with some exceptions, act as a more frequent conference on issues that appear outside conference season. The national executive oversees the day-to-day administration of party activities.

The party has a Conduct and Complaints Committee. In May 2024, it expelled thirteen members after a disciplinary investigation. Those expelled were accused of breaching the party's code of conduct by signing the eight-point Scottish Green Declaration For Women’s Sex-Based Rights that asserted that "sex is a biological reality", of which it was complained made the party less safe for transgender and non-binary members. The party has stated that "trans-exclusionary individuals of any kind are not welcome as members".

Branches
The party is made up of branches, who usually cover one or more local authority areas, and meet on a regular basis.

Representation groups
The Scottish Greens have six self-organised representation groups:
 * Disabled Greens
 * Greens of Colour
 * Rainbow Greens (LGBT+ group)
 * Scottish Green Trade Union Group
 * Scottish Young Greens
 * Women's Network

These groups have additional meetings and discussions which are separate from the main party meetings.

Ideology
The Scottish Greens are a party whose ideology is shaped by green politics, Scottish independence, Scottish republicanism and pro-Europeanism.

Co-leader Patrick Harvie has described the party's ideals as:

"Of a liveable planet.

Of justice, equality and dignity for all people.

Of Scotland’s right to decide its own future - not because of attachment to one flag or another, but because of a clear, compelling vision of what a Green Scotland could be."

Four principles
According to the party's website, the Scottish Greens are committed to forming a sustainable society and are guided by four interconnected principles:
 * Ecology: "Our environment is the basis upon which every society is formed. Whenever we damage our environment, we damage ourselves. Respect for our environment is therefore essential".
 * Equality: "A society that is not socially and economically just cannot be sustainable. Only when released from immediate poverty can individuals be expected to take responsibility for wider issues. Our society must be founded on cooperation and respect. We campaign hard against discrimination on grounds of gender, race, sexuality, disability, age or religion".
 * Radical democracy: "Politics is too often conducted in a polarised, confrontational atmosphere and in a situation remote from those that it affects. We must develop decentralised, participative systems that encourage individuals to control the decisions that affect their own lives".
 * Peace and nonviolence: "Violence at all levels of human interaction must be rejected and succeeded by relations characterised by flexibility, respect and fairness".

The party claims that, taken together, these principles give the party a holistic view that is in common with all green parties around the world.

Eco-socialism
There are internal factions which seek to transform the party's ideology to be eco-socialist. In the party's 2019 internal elections, the Green Futures Group ran a slate of candidates on a platform of a Green New Deal, eco-socialism and independence. The group's candidates were all elected and hold key positions in the party as of 2019. In 2015, future MSP and then co-convenor Maggie Chapman, former MSP Mark Ballard and influential member Peter McColl were reported to be part of a "leftist grouping inside the Greens". McColl argued that Chapman's election and subsequent role as lead candidate in the 2014 European Parliament election marked an increased socialist influence on the party. In 2023, the Scottish Green Party Trade Union Group called the party's parliamentary group a "group of ecosocialist MSPs in their own right.”

In 2021, the party's conference backed a motion calling for the party to work "towards building a democratic ecosocialist system", which was taken by some internal groups, such as the Scottish Young Greens as the party backing eco-socialism. The party's critics on the Labour left like Coll McCail and Finn Smyth claim that it has taken a neo-liberal turn in office and is simply maintaining the status-quo by reneging on commitments like the establishment of a government owned energy company. Radical Independence Campaign co-founder Cat Boyd noted that while the party had been "a consistent ally of the radical left" she was concerned that may end as the party got closer to power due to "the temptations of ‘pragmatic’ coalition government".

McCail and Smyth's criticism was engaged with by the party. Green MSP Ross Greer who co-authored the party's power-sharing agreement with the SNP Scottish Government argued that they had identified the wrong problem, and that the Government's lacking capital borrowing powers was what forced the end of the policies they discussed.

After the 2021 Scottish Parliament election, in which she was elected as a MSP, Chapman argued that the left had "won the Scottish Green Party". She argued the election was the first which the party "run a campaign on the basis of policies rather than personalities or tactical voting messages" and that those policies emphasised social justice and climate justice.

Policy
While associated mainly with environmentalist policies, the party has a history of support for communitarian economic policies, including well-funded, locally controlled public services within the confines of a steady-state economy, is supportive of proportional representation and takes a progressive approach to social policies. The party is also strongly opposed to both nuclear power and the Trident nuclear programme.

The party's 2019 manifesto included pledges to implement a green new deal to tackle climate change and for future investment, the introduction of a universal basic income, the phasing in of a four-day week, support for rent controls and treating drug use as a health issue rather than a crime.

Climate change
The party favours strong action to combat climate change, including phasing out single-use plastic, the creation of more Low Emission Zones in cities and a ban on the sale of new petrol cars, diesel cars and fossil fuel boilers. The party also seeks "ambitious" climate action, and in 2019 abstained on the Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill claiming it was not "anywhere near meaningful action to address the climate emergency". However, the BBC News journalist Philip Sim argued in 2021 that since then the party position has shifted to "hitting these [carbon emissions reduction targets] than stretching them".

The party is also against oil and gas developments in Scotland, such as the proposed Cambo and Rosebank oil and gas fields.

In government, the party's ministers announced a ban on new waste incinerators and a new biodiversity strategy.

Transport
The Greens are against plans to dual the A9 and the A96, arguing that the plans are incompatible with climate commitments. Instead, the party advocates for the expansion of Scotland's railway network, such as a tunnel across the Forth constructed between Leith and Kirkcaldy, an aim to connect every town with more than 5,000 people to the railway network and to completely electrify the Scottish network by 2030.

The Scottish Greens also supported the nationalisation of ScotRail and Caledonian Sleeper, and advocates for "the whole of Scotland’s railways – both track and train – to be brought into public ownership". The party, as part of its co-operation agreement with the Scottish Government scrapped peak-time rail fares for at least one year.

The party also supports a wider nationalisation of all rail, bus and ferry companies, alongside further investment in walking, wheeling and cycling.

Scottish independence
It is the only party other than the SNP to both support Scottish independence and have representation in the Scottish Parliament. At the party's 2005 conference, a motion passed to support Scottish independence.

The Scottish Green Party supports Scotland having its own currency if it were to become an independent country. The party has said this would be in order to establish full economic independence, rather than being tied to the pound sterling.

The party backed the Scottish government's attempt to hold a second Scottish independence referendum in 2023, and made it a key part of its 2022 autumn conference.

However, in an interview at the party's 2023 autumn conference, co-leader Lorna Slater suggested that independence was not a "red line" for any future power-sharing deals with Scottish Labour, re-affirming similar comments during the independence referendum.

LGBT+ rights
The party has campaigned strongly for LGBT rights, with the party publishing a specific LGBT+ manifesto co-produced with its LGBT wing. The party supports gender self-identification, banning conversion therapy, improving LGBT+ inclusive education and improving transgender healthcare. The party has also campaigned to get more non-binary people into politics, and voted to 'suspend ties' with the Green Party of England and Wales due to transphobia concerns.

The party was the only party to support same-sex civil partnerships upon its entry to the Scottish Parliament in 1999. In 2003, the party's MSP Patrick Harvie introduced a bill to allow civil partnerships in Scotland. The bill failed, but was key to creating the debate on the topic which let to its passing at Westminster.

The Scottish Greens have also firmly supported reforms to the Gender Recognition Act 2004. The party's MSP Andy Wightman, and later, the party's first MSP Robin Harper both left the party over the policy. Despite this, the party remained committed to the policy, arguing that "...human rights, including the rights of trans people, are at the core of our vision and have been since our party was founded over 30 years ago". The party opposed the UK Government's veto of the Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill.

Leadership
The Scottish Greens is led by a six-person leadership team. This is made up of the co-leaders of the party, the co-chairs of the national executive of the party and the co-convenors of the party council.

The political leadership roles are generally held by a present or aspiring elected politician, while internal leadership is held by a mixture of ordinary members and aspiring or elected politicians.

Political leadership
Alongside many other green parties, the Scottish Greens initially shunned the idea of a singular leader, despite key party figures like Robin Harper commenting that it must "have an official Leader and face to represent it if it is to sustain political effectiveness." Increasingly, during Patrick Harvie's tenure as co-convenor, the role became more like a traditional party leader, as his profile as an MSP tended to overshadow his fellow co-convenor. In 2019, as a part of internal party reforms, the role of two co-leaders was introduced, with Patrick Harvie and Lorna Slater elected as inaugural co-leaders. A maximum of one of the co-leaders may identify as a man.

Unlike party leaders in most other political parties, the Scottish Greens' co-leaders are only elected for two year terms, after which they may seek re-election. Generally, incumbents are returned without opposition, but the inaugural co-leadership election, and 2015 co-convenorship election were contested.

Internal leadership
The other four members of the party's leadership team are drawn from its national council and executive. They serve for two year terms, and are elected by a ballot of party members.

Party Council
Between conferences, the Party Council provides the forum for strategic decisions, policy discussions, oversight and branch coordination. The council is composed of two delegates from branches, usually branch co-convenors, representative and special interest groups. Its decisions can only be overridden by a party conference or AGM.

The council is currently led by council co-convenors Laura Moodie and Kate Nevens.

Party Executive Committee
The National Executive oversees the day-to-day administration of the party. It is led by two co-chairs, directly elected by party members, and who manage the party staff and its volunteer-led National Committees which focus on specific party functions like policy development or engagement with the European Greens. Its decisions may be overridden by the party council or conference.

It is presently chaired by Ross Greer and Carolynn Scrimgeour, who was co-opted after the resignation of Ellie Gomersall in December 2023. This committee also oversees the work of the elected National Committees; Finance & Fundraising, Elections & Campaigns, Policy, Membership and International.

Elected representatives
The Scottish Greens have representation in the Scottish Parliament and several Scottish councils. It does not have any representation in the House of Commons or the House of Lords, unlike its sister party the Green Party of England and Wales.

MSPs
All of the Scottish Green Party's members of the Scottish Parliament (MSPs) have been elected under the list in the Scottish Parliament. The party elected a record eight MSPs in the 2021 Scottish Parliament election. However the party's representation was reduced to seven after Green MSP Alison Johnstone was elected as the Parliament's non-partisan Presiding Officer.

Previous MSPs

 * John Finnie for Highlands and Islands. Finnie was elected Green within this region in May 2016, having previously been SNP then Independent. Stood down in 2021.
 * Shiona Baird for North East Scotland. Baird served as party co-convener from 2004 to 2007.
 * Chris Ballance for the South of Scotland.
 * Mark Ballard for the Lothians.
 * Robin Harper for the Lothians. Harper was the first elected Green parliamentarian in the UK and was the party's convener from the time of that position's creation in 1999 until 2002. He later served as one of its co-conveners from 2004 to 2008.
 * Eleanor Scott for the Highlands and Islands. Scott was party convener from 2002 to 2004, and a co-convener of the party from 2008 to 2011.
 * Andy Wightman was an MSP for the Lothian region 2016 to 2021. He was elected for the party in the 2016 election, but left in December 2020 after facing possible complaints and disciplinary action for the way he intended to vote on an amendment to the Forensic Medical Services (Victims of Sexual Offences) (Scotland) Bill. He had planned to vote against the party and for the amendment, in conflict with the party's policy on trans rights. He stated in his resignation letter that he felt the party had an "alienating and provocative" stance on trans rights.
 * John Wilson, a member of the Greens, sat as an independent MSP in the 4th Scottish Parliament, having left the SNP in September 2014 because of its change in policy on NATO membership. He stood for the Greens in the 2016 election, but was unsuccessful.
 * Alison Johnstone is an MSP for the Lothian and was elected Presiding Officer of the Scottish Parliament on Thursday, 13 May 2021, giving up her party affiliation on election to the role.

Councillors
Prior to the 2007 elections, the Party had only ever elected one councillor at local level: in May 1990, Roger (aka Rory) Winter, representing the Highland Green Party (Uainich na Gàidhealtachd), was elected in Nairn as Scotland's first Green regional councillor to the then Highland Regional Council. Cllr Winter broke away from the Greens in 1991 and continued his four-year term as an Independent Green Highlander.

The party made its first major breakthroughs at council level in the 2007 local elections, electing eight councillors between Glasgow City and the City of Edinburgh Councils.

In the 2012 local elections, this was increased to 14. The party elected councillors for the first time to Aberdeenshire, Stirling & Midlothian Councils.

At the 2017 local elections, the party returned a record 19 councillors, including elected councillors to Orkney Islands Council for the first time. However, the party lost its sole councillor on Midlothian Council.

The 2022 local elections saw another record number of Green councillors elected. Thirty five candidates gained seats across 13 local authorities, an increase of 16. This included the first ever Green councillors in North Lanarkshire, South Lanarkshire, Argyll & Bute, Clackmannanshire, Shetland, East Lothian, Moray and the Scottish Borders. In March 2024, the party won its first ever by-election, electing Seonad Hoy as a councillor in Hillhead ward in Glasgow.

Electoral performance
Vote share represents the party's share in Scotland rather than the UK at large.

Related organisations

 * European Federation of Green Parties
 * Green Party Northern Ireland
 * Green Party of England and Wales

title: Scottish Greens


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Talk:Roquefort

Pronunciation
The guide to pronunciation says "rock-fort". Is this correct? I would have thought the 't' would be silent, being French.

Markparker 13:59, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

You're right, the final 't' is silent in french, so the pronunciation is more "rock-for". 88.160.235.219 17:04, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

 * But keep in mind that this is the English wikipedia, so pronunciations should be written as they are spoken in English (or list different ways when there is regional variability, which is often the case). Seems like both Random House and American Heritage say the 't' is pronounced. digfarenough (talk) 20:50, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It would be more like roke-for anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.89.31.237 (talk) 02:40, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Date of origin
This article should of mentioned the time of which rouquefort cheese was invented. But since I'm so nice. I will tell you. Roquefort was invented in the year 1070. Galsknowbest ( . ) ( . )

Expense
Roquefort is not expensive in France it's rather cheap since the USA apply heavy import tax, thus it must be more expensive on the US market. Ericd

Name of town
Is Roquefort actually the name of a town in France, after which the cheese was named (like the town of Cheddar in England)? If so, this article should say so. One Wikipedia article is titled "Cheddar", and another is titled "Cheddar cheese". The first article is about the town and the second about the cheese. Michael Hardy 19:46 Jan 16, 2003 (UTC)

 * Yes, as Eric said, there are towns named Roquefort. That's why this article is entitled "Roquefort cheese" and not simply "Roquefort".  The first sentence also states that we're talking about a cheese, then goes on to point to a town of origin.  I don't think it gets much clearer than that.  Dachshund

-- Of course Roquefort is a town. In fact there are a lot of towns named Roquefort in France. The "good" one is in the Aveyron département. Ericd

Mention by Pliny?
I very much doubt that Roquefort cheese was mentioned by Pliny. Could he have a quote, please. Burschik 12:17, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I concur. And I'm sorry to see the following "Legend has it" bromide disfiguring such a well-written informative article: Legend has it that the cheese was discovered when a young shepherd, eating his lunch of curds, saw a beautiful girl in the distance. Abandoning his meal in a nearby cave, he ran to meet her. When he failed to catch her, he returned to his now moldy lunch and ate it out of pure hunger. Doesn't this have the true ring of inauthenticity! --Wetman 08:00, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

This is a legend reported as a legend. As for Pliny this should be in "Historia naturalis" - Book 28 but I can't read latin. Please verify. Ericd 18:37, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Pliny book XI. I think it's there : "Laus caseo Romae, ubi omnium gentium bona comminus iudicantur, e provinciis Nemausensi praecipua, Lesurae Gabalicoque pagis, sed brevis ac musteo tantum commendatio. duobus Alpes generibus pabula sua adprobant: Delmaticae Docleatem mittunt, Ceutronicae Vatusicum." However I don't read latin. Can someone translate ? Ericd 18:51, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * The praise to the cheese of Rome, where good of the each tribes hand to hand are judged, out of the provinces by particular Nemausens, to Lesura Gabalicoqu to the country district/communities, but of the shallow water and must-like of such size the entrusting. Duobus Alps to the birth/descent/origins the fodders the his property approve: they send Delmatica Docleat, Ceutronica Vatusicum --Rakista 20:22, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

 * A proper translation: "The kinds of cheese that are most esteemed at Rome, where the various good things of all nations are to be judged of by comparison, are those which come from the provinces of Nemausus, and more especially the villages there of Lesura and Gabalis; but its excellence is only very short-lived, and it must be eaten while it is fresh." (source)
 * This is likely the quotation from which the idea derives, because latin Nemausus is modern Nîmes which is quite close to Roquefort-sur-Soulzon; and also Lesura and Gabalis are likely modern-day Lozère and Gévaudan. Anyway, this quote clearly does not mention Roquefort, nor does it clearly speak of blue cheese. It merely says that cheeses from the general area of modern Roquefort-sur-Soulzon were highly esteemed in ancient Rome. Clearly the interpretation brought to bear on this quote by people eager to back-date the origins of the Roquefort cheese is sketchy at best. -- Pinnerup (talk) 23:19, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

 * This is a lot less clear than most people probably think - Lesora could be compared to the Caucasus, and thus means the whole Cevennes/Causses range (including Roquefort-sur-Soulzon), not just the Mont Lozère peak; and the word musteus, interpreted as "fresh", is tricky to translate; it's an adjective derived from grape-must, variously applied to apples that have been steeped in honey, fresh honey that hasn't yet settled, raw white pepper as opposed to dried black pepper, and a new book - today, the English derivative "musty" specifically means "mouldy", in smell, texture and taste. Interpretations of this passage of Pliny about cheese included fromage frais, cheese pickled in grape-juice, and a gently-cooked fondue, as well as the freshness and moistness of Roquefort. I've tried to make the text more neutral and added more citations. Speaking personally, I think the range of meanings would fit with the "blueing" of Roquefort, but I can't see that anyone's ever suggested that, so I've left it off the page! --AJN (talk) 19:14, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Redirect
I redirected Roquefort to this article and put a redirect disambiguation on top; the disambiguation page as it is only has one other active article, one sentence about the town the cheese is made in. Best go straight to the cheese I thought, most of the links mean to. -- Blorg 21:39, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

"King of Cheeses"
"Roquefort is sometimes known as the "King of Cheeses", a distinction that is also used for the Brie de Meaux." And for Blue Stilton (mentionned on it's Wikipedia article), and no doubt for a large number of other cheeses. I don't have an issue with the term being mentionned in reference to Roqeufort, but I fell "a distinction that is also used for the Brie de Meaux." may be better replaced by something like "a phrase also used for a number of other cheeses."128.232.250.254 23:48, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm afraid I just added Stilton before I read this. Hopefully I won't cause an avalanche of other cheeses vying for position!  :)
 * -- Chris  ( blather  •  contribs ) [[Image:Flag of the United Kingdom (3-5).svg|20px]] 11:14, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Necroing a dead topic, but I moved the cite to the proper place to refer only to Roquefort and put a fact tag on the others. It looks to me like people have been adding their own favorite cheeses to the list for some time, and unless some cites appear I'll just trim off the list. Daniel C/T+ 17:24, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Appraently you never got around to it, Daniel, so I've gone ahead and done so. Those fact tags were still there.  The fact that some source has called Roquefort the king of cheeses doesn't make it noteworthy -- with something as subjective and culturally important as cheese, it's not the least bit surprising that many cheeses share that meaningless distinction.  As was, the lead of this article had a list of a bunch of other cheeses that shared nothing in common with Roquefort except for the fact that they're cheeses, and that someone somewhere had called them the King of Cheeses.  For the record, I agree with the sentiment that Roquefort is the king of cheeses, but it's a bit like calling someone "the most beautiful woman in the world" -- it's been said about virtually every actress/songstress out there.  It doesn't say anything except that people have different taste.72.42.168.134 (talk) 22:32, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

 * I am highly suspicious of the claim that it takes 4.5 liters of milk to make a kilogram of cheese. 4.5 quarts is way too little milk in my opinion to make a whole kilo. 4.5 liters of milk weigh about 4 kilos, and I can't believe almost 1/4 of any kind of milk is solids and fat. Cow's milk is almost 90% water. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.170.63.24 (talk) 06:52, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
 * This article (referenced) contains all the data discussed above. http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/stories/2001-12-30/something-is-rotten-in-roquefort prokaryotes (talk) 18:51, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Aesthetic opinions (section 2.1)
This section currently contains uncited opinions and instructions not attributed to their source. I have labelled them accordingly. Please keep this guideline in mind when describing aesthetic opinions. Thanks. --  TyrS  chatties  10:02, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

It's Blue
It's Blue — Preceding unsigned comment added by Longinus876 (talk • contribs) 15:45, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Fixed. prokaryotes (talk) 18:55, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Roquefort


text:
Talk:Applied kinesiology

Keep to the facts, please
It seems to me that this article is rather slighted toward opinionated rather than factual information. I think it needs to be cleaned up to provide information about the subject that isn't so slighted toward someone's opinion on the subject. The External Links has a tag that says it should be cut short. Can we get rid of some of the links that have redundant info? I also think those links should be things that use facts, not just opinions. Just my 2¢. (Jif101 (talk) 15:30, 5 August 2008 (UTC))

Firstly, I beg your pardon for not being nativ English... Honestly, at first sight I liked the article because there are many references, it is long, seems to give lots of information. Reading only the first passage was a great disappointment! And reding the source text of only the first paragraph reveals that a number of the quotations were from secondary "sources", i.e. articles in magazines about AK. For me, scientific writing has to draw from the most original sources possible. Quote Goodheart or the ak-organisations when it comes to describe how AK works, what it is about. Quote a (hopefully!) scientific magazine when it comes to studies and let an article contribute when it comes to media response. In the section about Denmark - that's quite unreal. Homeopathy and AK have as much in common as your sliced apple and the cereals in the müsli bowl at breakfast.... Who is writing such press releases and how can we honestly put this here?? I dare not change anything because of my lack in language proficiency. Totally agree with Jif101 (above)! Can someone please do something about this lengthy article and help save its great informative potential? --Gela1 (talk) 21:16, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

 * I know that this is being explained to you now well over a year after your comments, and well after your user page has vanished, but the fact is that for purposes of being consideredwp:rs, primary sources are generally shunned as being unreliable, whereas secondary sources from reliable media sources ARE considered wp:rs If you think about it, it makes perfect sense. Snertking (talk) 00:28, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

POV
The article had a POV tag before which another editor removed without any clear discussion that I can see in the archive. I have reinstated it as the article seem too much of an attack piece to be NPOV. For example the lede soon uses tendentious, weasely language such as purportedly and continues in the same vein. Colonel Warden (talk) 16:46, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

 * WP:Weasel words are statements without adequate attribution. WP:Tendentious editing is partisan, biased or skewed editing.  To use words like purportedly without adequate citations would give us an NPOV problem, but this article is rammed full of citations to credible research showing that AK is pseudoscientific nonsense - in this case to remove the word purportedly would give us an NPOV problem.  I've removed the tag again - I hope this explanation is sufficiently clear.  --Hugh Charles Parker (talk - contribs) 11:00, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Not an RS
This would fail the WP:RS test for sure, but it is a double-blind experiment (ahem) worth watching with an open mind. -- Levine2112 discuss 02:27, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

 * WP:NOT, please? I am not sure why all these (in general, I think none of them involved the above editor) talkpage digressions have been bugging me lately, but it really would be nice if we could stick to the topic of improving the article. - Eldereft (cont.) 06:04, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Point taken. I struck it, but feel free to remove my comment above as well. -- Levine2112 discuss 02:26, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Lead section, and is it a "chiropractic technique"?
Whoa, couple rounds of reverting   (and not even an ES in that last one) and no one's using the talk page?

If we're going to say it's a "chiropractic technique", we need a source that unambiguously says so. Barrett doesn't reach that threshold. He says "Most practitioners are chiropractors, but naturopaths, medical doctors, dentists, bogus nutritionists, physical therapists, massage therapists, nurse practitioners, and multilevel distributors (most notably for Nature's Sunshine) are also involved." How is he an RS for this? What survey does he cite? None; and as it turns out, what he says a little later contradicts his assertion: after citing various stats for how many chiros use AK (ca. 30-40% in the US), he says:  "The prevalence among other types of practitioners is unknown." It's unknown? Then how on earth can anyone claim to know what percentage of AK users are chiros! Maybe it's just a plurality. Who knows? Anyway, lacking an RS saying unambiguously that it's a chiro technique, the line doesn't belong in the lead. I'm going to retain Barrett but change the wording to stick close to what the source reliably says. --Middle 8 (talk) 02:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

 * BTW, no info is lost with my edit; I kept the Quackwatch ref. Just a rewording per what we can reliably infer from that source.  If Barrett ever put his article through anything like peer-review, he'd get nailed for baldly asserting that most practitioners are chiros and not backing it up.  Well, at WP we do have some small measure of editorial review, so not everything he says gets to go in articles here. --Middle 8 (talk) 02:31, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

 * The edits are a spillover from a discussion elsewhere (link below).

 * I'm not sure why QG put the Quackwatch ref in there, and it's certainly not a good reference to be used there, especially since it doesn't back up the edit. Two of the best existing refs do so, and will likely be used soon, but right now a discussion is ongoing elsewhere.

 * We can't be carrying on this dispute in two places, so PLEASE confine this discussion to the ongoing discussion here. -- Fyslee (talk) 02:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

(de-indent) For posterity, note this edit that completely ignores the point that Barrett doesn't source his claim. That wouldn't be the first instance of WP:IDHT from QuackGuru. --Middle 8 (talk) 12:21, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

If we're going to copy a list from a source, at least copy it properly - I've added the word 'bogus' because that's in the source. It might seem NPOV, but if we're quoting it should be accurate. Actually that para is probably good for deletion anyway, thoughts? CheesyBiscuit (talk) 17:55, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Somebody is trying to revert the above change, please explain why on this talk page before doing so again. CheesyBiscuit (talk) 08:12, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

Personal observation
This edit added what appears to be Original research. If any Reliable sources make these observations and comparisons, please introduce them here for discussion. - 2/0 (cont.) 09:39, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

"Scientific Research" section needs to be brought into balance
WP:UNDUE Neutrality requires that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each. This section should lead with the scientific consensus, instead of ending with it. Additionally, the intro sentence creates an impression of a false balance: i.e. that some studies weight in favor, and some against. The mainstream scientific research should also make up the majority of the section's content. Dogweather (talk) 01:14, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

 * Ok, I read through the section, and it's a huge mess. It would give the mistaken impression that the scientific community is in disagreement about AK's efficacy.  I'll fix when I have time. Dogweather (talk) 08:05, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

A Guideline for writing about Physical Practices
It is very, very useful to start with an experiential basis for writing about a physically based practice. Whilst I would by no means suggest that we throw theory out of the window, I am arguing that it is important that we understand what we are talking about. Without the experience the theory is an abstraction, without a clarity of how it relates together. In learning these disciplines there is a certain extent to which it has to be part of an oral tradition. I cannot teach you ballet just by telling you about ballet: I may be able to give you certain maps, I may be able to illuminate certain principles of it, but in the end, we would need to be in a room together doing it for you to really learn how to do it.

In the same way that I would never suggest that someone who has never seen ballet, or been to a ballet class focus their writing on ballet; I would not suggest that someone who has no unmediated experience of Applied Kinesiology focus their writing on it. This is not to say that it is bad and should not be done, but if it is, maybe it is good write from a point of an open honesty and humbleness.

There are many disciplines that have a strong experiential basis for them, but are yet to be accepted by the scientific mainstream, and this is more to do with a lack of research and dialogue than it is to with the work being scientifically unviable in itself. What I am saying is that we should be critical of what we read and write - if most of the literature says one thing, then most of what we say is in danger of just regurgitating what everyone has said. To be critical is to digest, integrate and express what we experience, through the being and the doing of it and through the thinking and the reading about it. Sebbi (talk) 22:35, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

Websites
I think someone should mention about stuff like this: http://kinesiologybydenaplaice.co.uk/ http://www.icpkp.com/Story?Action=View&Story_id=1636 I put ADHD into my local city and found this. (Was looking for an ADHD support group locally). I would never use one of them websites but it would be a good to mention this for other people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.0.140.137 (talk) 14:40, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

 * UM, NO. The webpage in question, for starters, is in no way wp:rs Secondly, why would an advert for a particular AK practice be relevant to the article? Snertking (talk) 00:36, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Request for Feedback for a new article on BodyTalk
The article is currently in my namespace. I am concerned about potential deletion, but I do believe the topic has become sufficiently notable, for better or worse, as demonstrated by the references in my draft of the article (most of which are more recent than the last deletion in 2007). Any contributions or suggestions would be appreciated. -Hugetim (talk) 22:32, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Link rot
This article has several dead links. I can only assume that these link once worked. Please replace the sources with existing ones. 68.120.89.89 (talk) 21:50, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Richard R. Hawkins
Some information more suitable for this page was posted at the article Richard R. Hawkins :

 * Mainstream scientists and scientific skeptics, notably the author of The Skeptic's Dictionary, Robert Todd Carroll, state that applied kinesiology's results are triggered by the ideomotor effect and recognize Hawkins' use of applied kinesiology to be a pseudoscience when scrutinized with the scientific method. This is evidenced by double-blind studies, including some that found applied kinesiology to be "no more useful than random guessing", as well as additional research and reviews contained in the National Library of Medicine and National Institutes of Health. Chiropractic researchers who reviewed the studies that came out of International College of Applied Kinesiology concluded that "no valid conclusions could be drawn concerning their report of findings".

If it is not duplicated, then please make use of it.Oranjblud (talk) 11:24, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

the lead and NPOV
per WP:LEAD and WP:NPOV

the lead should place the subject in context and the context needs to accurately reflect the mainstream opinion. per policy the lead MUST therefore place AK as the pseudo scientific quackery that the mainstream academics view it. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  21:39, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

NPOV again
A new editor has come along, and as their first ever edit in Wikipedia, has marked this article for NPOV, apparently disregarding all prior discussions on this page of the neutrality of this article. I invite the editor to review the prior discussions to understand that the consensus view of the Wikipedia community does not support the idea that calling AK a pseudoscientific practice violates neutrality, because of the preponderance of citations available to back that point of view. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 20:25, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

NPOV Again 2
(being the first time editor that I am, I finally! figured out how to post this here...)

The main reason that I offered this flag was not to dispute the factual information already in place, but that basic content about AK and Clinical Kinesiology theory and methods is lacking, and that this lack contributes to the article's overall taste as biased in conjunction with the particular placement and use of parenthesis and words/phrases that add a negative connotation, rather than straight-forward facts. The statements in the opening paragraph are certainly informative, however would they not be more appropriately placed in the 'Criticism' section? The use of parenthesis in the History and Current use section, regarding ICAK also seems unnecessary, and meant to express the author's option about the nature of the organization, its people and activities - i.e. "certified", "diplomats". I could also be reading into this, but as a common wikipedia viewer, I am probably not the only person to process the use of punctuation as a method to maintain a tone of opinionated skepticism. Also see: "The essential premise of applied kinesiology, which is not shared by mainstream medical theory..." - this phrase seems unnecessary, and further reinforces, what appears to be the overall slant of the article. These are a few examples of why I placed the NPOV. I think the content already in place has the potential to read and inform in a more expansive way through reorganization and with additions to the text.

As you pointed out that I am a first-time editor, so I appreciate your patience with my kindergarten like-style of jumping in to this discussion. If there is a more appropriate way to do so, I will be happy to follow that avenue since I am just one voice of many in an old discussion here. If it is not appropriate for me to have placed a NPOV on the article, than let it be removed. Ancora Imparo...

I have studied Kinesiology and am a Kinesiologist and in no way do we ever claim to 'diagnose' any patient. That is one of the first things we are taught in Kinesiology, we never treat, prescribe or diagnose. So that part of this article certainly needs to be revised as it is misleading and false information. The article is quite obviously a very biased/opinionated article and I strongly believe that it should focus on the facts and getting true Kinesiology information out there without any opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.174.21.128 (talk) 02:43, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

 * I had a quick look - and it does seem that the claim that it's used to "diagnose" and "treat" are backed up by Reliable Sources. I appreciate that your personal experience might offer additional information, but following WP:ORIG, that is not useful as WP:RS. On the other hand, if your educational establishment has published course material saying that AK isn't to be used for diagnosis and treatment (and hence what it would be used for), then add it to the page in context. I'd suggest also posting it here so that if your edits are reverted later, other editors can still appreciate your newbie-ness, and use your information.
 * In line with existing consensus, though, I'm removing the WP:NPOV tag.
 * Ian McDonald (talk) 17:13, 10 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Ian McDonald (talk) 17:13, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

misleading information - needs to be rectified
I have studied Kinesiology and am a Kinesiologist and in no way do we ever claim to 'diagnose' any patient. That is one of the first things we are taught in Kinesiology, we never treat, prescribe or diagnose. So that part of this article certainly needs to be revised as it is misleading and false information. The article is quite obviously a very biased/opinionated article and I strongly believe that it should focus on the facts and getting true Kinesiology information out there without any opinion.

Kinesiologist1990 (talk) 02:47, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

NPOV yet again
This article is thoroughly rigged. Perhaps some balance between the detractors and proponents would make for something resembling a legitimate article, rather than an attack page on AK and alternative medicine. 94.2.227.10 (talk) 05:58, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * You need to be specific. A general gripe won't do. Which content is not reliably sourced? Which content is not true? Provide the exact words, in quotation marks, and the sourcing used. -- Brangifer (talk) 07:16, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * No "general gripe" pal. More like WP:NPOV if we want to throw essays around. I'm talking about the whole article. In my subjective opinion – which is what Wikipedia is all about, whether we pretend or not – it is clearly weighted toward detractors. 94.2.227.10 (talk) 17:06, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, OK, when you have something specific to suggest, let us know.--McSly (talk) 17:20, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The fact that scientific evidence supports and informs the views of detractors (that's WHY they criticize AK...duh!), is just a fact of life. We follow the RS, and most RS back up the mainstream scientific POV that AK is a pseudoscience. You obviously don't like that. Maybe you need to change your POV and bring it into line with the evidence.
 * Without specifics we can't do much here. Such general complaints are a dime a dozen from pushers of fringe POV and we consider them to be violations of WP:TALK. If this continues we'll just remove the comments. -- Brangifer (talk) 23:23, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I knew I'd hit a nerve by requesting a little impartiality. Your hostile responses confirm it. I happened to stumble onto the page and have no interest whatsoever in it other than promoting NPOV. I'm well aware that AK is regarded as pseudoscience but some views to the contrary wouldn't hurt. 94.2.227.10 (talk) 23:48, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Just saying "NPOV" is far too vague. The next comment without a specific suggestion will get deleted and this whole thread hatted. -- Brangifer (talk) 23:53, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Hatchet job on AK
Wikipedia, which is generally so informative and rational in its coverage of information of all kinds, has failed utterly to present an honest description of applied kinesiology. The bias here is so extreme that I believe the entire article should be scrapped and rewritten by someone else who actually has experience in the field and does not hold the kind of vendetta against it which is clearly manifest here. It is apparent that the author(s) of the present article has no such experience, for if he had, he would not be able to refute the outstanding contribution AK has made to alternative health care practice.

I was first introduced to AK while I was a student in massage school in 1985. When I first saw it demonstrated I was highly skeptical of seeing a muscle weaken simply by having a subject touch a particular point on his body. But after graduation I decided to take a course in AK, and at the same time began to be treated by a chiropractor who specialized in it. I soon started using muscle testing on my own patients as well. Between the dramatic changes in my own health and that of my patients, I was soon convinced that AK was a tremendous gift to healing. AK should be no more mysterious than acupuncture, which similarly, is an energy based treatment. If acupuncture points can reveal palpable blockages of energy at certain points in the body, why should it seem unreasonable that the same points might cause a muscle to weaken or strengthen when contacted? That Western medicine consistently ignores the existence of energy medicine, does not thereby invalidated it. The beauty of AK is that, through muscle testing, information can be derived from a person's own body directly. Sometimes the information is predictable, based on observed symptoms. Other times the answer to a medical question comes by surprise. It is the latter case that is the more interesting. Sometimes one is confident one will find certain muscle weaknesses and is quite surprised when the expected result does not show up. Sometimes the weakness that does show up is not at all what one thought it would be. It is at moments such as these that whatever doubts one had about the power of muscle testing to accurately reveal the body's health issues are dispelled.

I will not argue that AK is a panacea. Nor will I dispute the fact that it can be performed poorly. In expert hands it is, however, an invaluable and indispensable tool. Again, my main point is that the present article is a disgrace to the reputation of Wikipedia, a blot on its generally excellent presentation of information. It should be replaced. ```Tom Herman — Preceding unsigned comment added by TomHerman1 (talk • contribs) 03:42, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

 * Sorry you're disappointed Tom, but we have rules here. We aren't allowed to write our own opinions, and this article is the collaborative production of many editors, describing what they have found in reliable sources (RS). The article describes AK, and it also tells what RS say about it. Since it is generally regarded as pseudoscientific, we document which RS say that. I suggest you revise your real life beliefs and not believe or use pseudoscience. -- Brangifer (talk) 05:21, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

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Proposed merge with Muscle response testing
Despite what is stated in the article, this is clearly an Applied Kinesiology method. A search on Google Scholars yields many sources that confirm this : https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=fr&q=MRT+applied+kinesiology&btnG=&lr= In addition, the article has been created with a possible conflict of interest and is not written from a NPOV. For those reason, the article should redirect to Applied Kinesiology, with possibly a merge of some of it's content. KarlPopper y (talk) 01:33, 20 May 2017 (UTC) KarlPopper y  (talk) 01:38, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

The evidence suggests that MRT is clear and distinct entity to Applied Kinesiology (AK). The main difference is that AK is a system, an intervention, a type of treatment, whereas MRT is simply a test. This reason alone is enough to warrant its own page. However, there are other reasons as well. For instance, there are many technique systems that use MRT but are NOT AK. In addition, anyone who is an Applied Kinesiologist will tell you that MRT is not AK - but if you are not an Applied Kinesiologist, or a Kinesiologist, or if you do not use MRT, then you would not necessarily know the difference. I object to this merger and to the suggestions made in this proposition. [Being new to wiki editing, I do not know how to insert my username like KarlPopper, but I created this page] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anne237au (talk • contribs)
 * Nothing worthwhile at the MRT article, just blank it and then redirect here. Alexbrn (talk) 13:10, 20 May 2017 (UTC)

 * did the merge but this was reverted. I have reapplied it after adding a sentence to this article (which requires a citation).  Also see: Talk:Muscle response testing.  Thanks, — Paleo  Neonate  – 14:09, 18 August 2017 (UTC)

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Mass changes
I revert to the last stable version. Not seeing how the changes improved the page. QuackGuru ( talk ) 15:17, 16 August 2017 (UTC)

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This article is not worthy of Wikipedia, because it clearly is written under a grossly substantial lack of competence in the subject.
I read many article in this 'talk' section, and i see that many have also uncovered this page on Applied Kinesiology which is downright unjust. The fact that the main article stands without correction, or warning that it may not be correct, seriously disagree with the fundamental purpose and function of Wikipedia. I am shocked by this, to say the very least. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:6000:1419:A07E:5890:F695:3DA3:8F5 (talk) 13:44, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok, so are you proposing a change to the article? And if so, what is this change? --McSly (talk) 14:01, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Weak evidence in the intro?
'There have been other pseudoscience techniques related to the same ideomotor effect such as “Facilitated Communication” that have been debunked with extensive scientific literature as explained in the Frontline Documentary “Prisoners of Silence on Autism and Facilitated Communication”. The effects of automatic writing, dowsing, facilitated communication, And Ouija boards have been attributed to the phenomenon.'

^ I'm not sure this belongs in the article, and especially not in the introduction. AK is pseudoscience, but other pseudoscientific modalities relying on the same phenomenon as AK isn't good disproving evidence. There's also no reference for the documentary or the other claims (though I believe they are correct). This paragraph could sit under "scientific evidence", if anywhere – but I think it's weak enough that it should be removed altogether. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kinders (talk • contribs) 08:32, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
 * IT should not be in the lead, but, if sourced, it is an interesting fact and should be mentioned. --Hob Gadling (talk) 14:09, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Inaccurate and misleading
The basic premise of this article is based on a false assumption. Applied Kinesiology does not claim to be scientific. I am a practitioner who has read many books and been to many seminars. I never once heard anyone in this field say such a thing. You can't be pseudo-scientific if you are not claiming to be that in the first place. The author does not understand the basics. The article is written with a big skeptical bias. How to improve? Let someone else re-write the whole thing. Why are We stuck with the work of an ignorant person who seems to have their own personal agenda? It is easy to be skeptical. Skeptics are intellectually lazy people who find it too difficult to understand the truth. Just claim it is false and you're done. 86.81.253.9 (talk) 15:19, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

 * The article cites fine sources, and they seem well summarized. Best to avoid the WP:BIGMISTAKE. Bon courage (talk) 15:25, 14 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Applied kinesiology


text:
Nick Hornby

Nicholas Peter John Hornby (born 17 April 1957) is an English writer and lyricist. He is best known for his memoir Fever Pitch (1992) and novels High Fidelity and About a Boy, all of which were adapted into feature films. Hornby's work frequently touches upon music, sport, and the aimless and obsessive natures of his protagonists. His books have sold more than 5 million copies worldwide as of 2018. In a 2004 poll for the BBC, Hornby was named the 29th most influential person in British culture. He has received two Academy Award for Best Adapted Screenplay nominations for An Education (2009), and Brooklyn (2015).

Early life and education
Hornby was born in Redhill, Surrey, the son of Sir Derek Hornby, the chairman of London and Continental Railways, and Margaret Audrey Withers. He was brought up in Maidenhead, and educated at Maidenhead Grammar School and Jesus College, Cambridge, where he read English. His parents divorced when he was eleven.

Before becoming a novelist, Hornby worked for a time as a secondary-school English teacher.

Career
Hornby published his first book in 1992, a collection of essays about American writers such as Tobias Wolff and Ann Beattie, titled Contemporary American Fiction. Hornby's second book, Fever Pitch, also published in 1992, is an autobiographical story detailing his fanatical support for Arsenal Football Club. As a result, Hornby received the William Hill Sports Book of the Year Award. In 1997, the memoir was adapted for film in the UK, and in 2005 an American remake was released, following Jimmy Fallon's character's obsession with the Boston Red Sox, a baseball team. With the book's success, Hornby began to publish articles in the Sunday Times, Time Out and the Times Literary Supplement, in addition to his music reviews for the New Yorker.

High Fidelity — his third book and first novel — was published in 1995. The novel, about a neurotic record collector and his failed relationships, was adapted into a 2000 American film starring John Cusack, a Broadway musical in 2006, and a television show High Fidelity starring Zoë Kravitz in 2020.

His second novel, About a Boy, published in 1998, is about two "boys" — Marcus, an awkward yet endearing adolescent from a single-parent family, and the free-floating, mid-30s Will Freeman, who overcomes his own immaturity and self-centredness through his growing relationship with Marcus. Hugh Grant and Nicholas Hoult starred in the 2002 film version. In 1999, Hornby received the E. M. Forster Award of the American Academy of Arts and Letters.

Hornby's next novel, How to Be Good, was published in 2001. The female protagonist in the novel explores contemporary morals, marriage and parenthood. It was longlisted for the Man Booker Prize in 2001 and won the W.H. Smith Award for Fiction in 2002.

Part of the money he earned with his next book, Speaking with the Angel in 2002, was donated to TreeHouse, a charity for autistic children: Hornby's own son is autistic. He was editor of the book, which contained twelve short stories written by his friends. He also contributed to the collection with the story "NippleJesus".

In 2003, Hornby wrote a collection of essays on selected popular songs and the emotional resonance they carry, called 31 Songs (known in the US as Songbook). Also in 2003, Hornby was awarded the London Award 2003, an award that was selected by fellow writers.

Hornby has also written essays on various aspects of popular culture and, in particular, he has become known for his writing on pop music and mix tape enthusiasts. Since 2003, he has written a book review column, "Stuff I've Been Reading", for the monthly magazine The Believer; all of these articles are collected between The Polysyllabic Spree (2004), Housekeeping vs. The Dirt (2006), Shakespeare Wrote for Money (2008), and More Baths Less Talking (2012).

Hornby's novel A Long Way Down was published in 2005, with a film version of this book released in 2014. It was on the shortlist for the Whitbread Novel Award. Hornby has also edited two sports-related anthologies: My Favourite Year and The Picador Book of Sports Writing.

Hornby's book Slam was published on 16 October 2007; it is his first novel for young adults and was recognised as a 2008 ALA Best Books for Young Adults. The protagonist of Slam is a 16-year-old skateboarder named Sam, whose life changes drastically when his girlfriend gets pregnant.

Hornby's following novel, titled Juliet, Naked, was published in September 2009. Addressing similar themes as his earlier novel High Fidelity, the book is about a reclusive 1980s rock star who is forced out of isolation, after the release of demo recordings of the songs on his most famous album brings him into contact with some of his most passionate fans.

In 2010, Hornby co-founded the Ministry of Stories, a non-profit organisation in East London dedicated to helping children and young adults develop writing skills and to helping teachers inspire their students to write.

Hornby discussed his bouts of depression in 2012 on the BBC Radio 4 broadcast of "Fever Pitched: Twenty Years On".

Hornby's most recent novels are Funny Girl (2014), about a 1960s beauty queen determined to make her mark upon television comedy, State of the Union (2019) and Just Like You (2020).

Screenwriting
Hornby has also developed a career as a screenwriter, and has said that he enjoys the challenge of working in film as opposed to writing novels. In his BAFTA and BFI Screenwriters' Lecture he said: "once you get to a certain point in your novelistic career, unless you screw up very badly the book is going to come out. With a screenplay there are all these hurdles that seem to have some kind of objectivity to them. The screenplay has to work and I love that."

In 2009, Hornby adapted an autobiographical memoir by the journalist Lynn Barber for the screen as An Education, a feature film starring Peter Sarsgaard and Carey Mulligan. He was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Adapted Screenplay and for two BAFTAs.

In 2014, Hornby adapted another autobiographical memoir, Cheryl Strayed's Wild: From Lost to Found on the Pacific Crest Trail. Wild, which starred Reese Witherspoon and Laura Dern, was nominated for Best Actress for Witherspoon and Best Supporting Actress for Dern. Speaking on the challenge of adapting such a packed book, Hornby said it was really a case of boiling everything down and making the realisation that he could have made a two-hour film without mentioning walking at all.

In 2015, he wrote the script for the film Brooklyn, an adaptation of Colm Tóibín's novel of the same name. Tim Robey of The Daily Telegraph said it was "his strongest work ever as a screenwriter". According to Metacritic, the film is on eighty "top 10" lists for 2015. He was nominated for his second Oscar for writing the screenplay and received two BAFTA nominations, winning one.

In 2016, Hornby adapted Nina Stibbe's book Love, Nina: Despatches from Family Life into a television series. Love, Nina received its debut on BBC One on 20 May 2016, and ran for five episodes.

Film
Several of Hornby's books have made the jump from page to screen. Hornby wrote the screenplay for the first, a 1997 British adaptation of Fever Pitch, starring Colin Firth. It was followed by High Fidelity in 2000, starring John Cusack, with the action shifted from London to Chicago. After this success, About a Boy was quickly picked up, and released in 2002, starring Hugh Grant. An Americanized Fever Pitch, in which Jimmy Fallon plays a hopelessly addicted Boston Red Sox fan who tries to reconcile his love of the game with that of his girlfriend (Drew Barrymore), was released in 2005. Johnny Depp purchased film rights to the book A Long Way Down before it was published. The book was made into the 2014 film of the same name starring Pierce Brosnan, Aaron Paul, Toni Collette and Imogen Poots. The film adaptation of Juliet, Naked was released in 2018 starring Rose Byrne, Ethan Hawke and Chris O'Dowd.

Stage
High Fidelity was also the basis for a 2006 eponymous musical that shifted the action to Brooklyn; its book is by David Lindsay-Abaire with lyrics by Amanda Green, and music created by Tom Kitt. The production ran for a month in Boston, then moved to Broadway, closing after 18 previews and 14 regular performances.

Television
About a Boy was adapted for television and aired on NBC from 22 February 2014 to 17 February 2015. The show was developed by Jason Katims and it is the second adaptation based on the 1998 novel. The series stars David Walton, Minnie Driver and Benjamin Stockham.

Hulu premiered a 10-episode reboot of High Fidelity starring Zoë Kravitz on 14 February 2020.

Music
The importance of music in Hornby's novels, and in his life, is evidenced by his long-standing and fruitful collaborations with the rock band Marah, fronted by Dave and Serge Bielanko. Hornby has even toured in the United States and Europe with the band, joining them on stage to read his essays about particular moments and performers in his own musical history that have had a particular meaning for him.

Hornby's music criticism (most notably for The New Yorker and in his own Songbook) has been widely criticised by writers such as Kevin Dettmar (in his book Is Rock Dead), Curtis White (in an essay at www.centreforbookculture.org, titled "Kid Adorno"), Barry Faulk and Simon Reynolds for his embrace of rock traditionalism and conservative take on post-rock and other experimental musics (exemplified in Hornby's negative review of the Radiohead album Kid A).

Hornby has also had extensive collaboration with American singer/songwriter Ben Folds. Their album Lonely Avenue was released in September 2010. Folds wrote the music, with Hornby contributing lyrics. Prior to the album's release, the single "Picture Window" was released on Ben Folds' website. A bootleg version of a song about Levi Johnston written by Hornby and Folds and performed by Folds, appeared on the internet. Remaining Hornby lyrics provided the title song of the 2012 Ben Folds Five reunion album, The Sound of the Life of the Mind.

In 2022, Hornby released the book Dickens and Prince, where he makes connections between the musician Prince and author Charles Dickens.

Personal life
Hornby has been married twice. He and his first wife have one son, born in 1993, who is autistic. Hornby's second wife is producer Amanda Posey. They separated in 2021. They have two sons, born in 2001 and 2004. Hornby's sister, writer Gill Hornby, is married to writer Robert Harris.

Nick Hornby was directly involved in the creation of the charity Ambitious about Autism, then known as TreeHouse Trust, and its school TreeHouse School, as a result of trying to find specialist education for his son Danny. Hornby remains a major donor to the charity and is still involved as a vice-president.

In 2010, Nick Hornby co-founded Ministry of Stories, a writing charity based in Hoxton, east London. The charity was inspired by Dave Eggers' 826 Valencia model in San Francisco and aims to offer young people a chance to develop writing and literacy skills and develop a love of writing for pleasure.

Hornby supports Arsenal Football Club.

Awards and honours

 * 1993 William Hill Sports Book of the Year, Fever Pitch
 * 1999 E. M. Forster Award
 * 2002 WH Smith Literary Award, How to be Good
 * 2002 National Book Critics Circle Award, shortlist, 31 Songs
 * 2003 London Award
 * 2005 Whitbread Novel Award, shortlist, A Long Way Down
 * 2008 ALA Best Books for Young Adults, Slam
 * 2012 British Sports Book Awards, Outstanding Contribution to Sports Writing

Novels

 * (1995) High Fidelity
 * (1998) About a Boy
 * (2001) How to Be Good
 * (2005) A Long Way Down
 * (2007) Slam
 * (2009) Juliet, Naked
 * (2014) Funny Girl
 * (2019) State of the Union
 * (2020) Just Like You

Short stories

 * (1998) "Faith"
 * (2000) "Nipple Jesus"
 * (2005) "Not a Star"
 * (2005) "Small Country"
 * (2005) "Otherwise Pandemonium"
 * (2012) "Everyone's Reading Bastard"

Non-fiction

 * Books
 * (1992) Contemporary American Fiction ISBN 0-312-04213-2
 * (1992) Fever Pitch ISBN 0-14-029344-2
 * (2003) 31 Songs ISBN 0-14-101340-0 (Also published as Songbook in the US, ISBN 1-57322-356-5)
 * (2004) The Polysyllabic Spree ISBN 1-932416-24-2
 * (2006) Housekeeping vs. the Dirt ISBN 1-932416-59-5
 * (2008) Shakespeare Wrote for Money ISBN 1-934781-29-0
 * (2012) More Baths Less Talking ISBN 978-1-938073-05-2
 * (2013) Ten Years in the Tub ISBN 978-1-938073-73-1 (Also published as Stuff I've Been Reading in the UK)
 * (2022) Dickens and Prince ISBN 9780593541821

 * Essays
 * (2014) "The Artists We Deserve" (in Let's Talk About Love: Why Other People Have Such Bad Taste, new and expanded edition by Carl Wilson) ISBN 978-1-1111-0000-1

 * Stuff I've Been Reading columns in The Believer

Anthologies edited

 * (1993) My Favourite Year: A Collection of Football Writing ISBN 0-7538-1441-2
 * (1996) The Picador Book of Sportswriting ISBN 0-330-33133-7
 * (2000) Speaking with the Angel ISBN 0-14-029678-6
 * (2005) Otherwise Pandemonium ISBN 0-14-102251-5
 * (2013) Ten Years in the Tub: A Decade Soaking in Great Books ISBN 978-1-938073-73-1

Screenplays

 * Film
 * (1997) Fever Pitch — directed by David Evans
 * (2009) An Education — directed by Lone Scherfig
 * (2014) Wild — directed by Jean-Marc Vallée
 * (2015) Brooklyn — directed by John Crowley
 * Television
 * (2016) Love, Nina
 * (2019) State of the Union
 * (2022) State of the Union (Series 2)

Film adaptations

 * 1997 Fever Pitch — directed by David Evans; screenplay by Nick Hornby
 * 2000 High Fidelity — directed by Stephen Frears
 * 2002 About a Boy — directed by Chris and Paul Weitz
 * 2005 Fever Pitch — directed by Bobby and Peter Farrelly
 * 2012 È nata una star? — Italian-language adaptation of Not a Star directed by Lucio Pellegrini
 * 2014 About a Boy — television series
 * 2014 A Long Way Down — directed by Pascal Chaumeil
 * 2016 Slam – Tutto per una ragazza — Italian-language adaptation of Slam directed by Andrea Molaioli
 * 2018 Juliet, Naked — directed by Jesse Peretz

title: Nick Hornby


text:
Talk:Golda Meir

Birthplace in the infobox
Should we include "now Kyiv, UKraine"? I don't see the need to "save user time". Also, other stuff should generally be ignored, right? Thedarkknightli (talk) 20:15, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Dƶoxar, can you explain why you think it's necessary to ""? I don't get it. MOS:INFOBOXPURPOSE says, "Wherever possible, present information in short form, and exclude any unnecessary content." Thedarkknightli (talk) 08:18, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 January 2024
Change Reference No. 26 to archived version from: http://www.goldameir.org.il/index.php?dir=site&page=content&cs=297&langpage=heb

to: https://web.archive.org/web/20210102235455/http://www.goldameir.org.il/index.php?dir=site&page=content&cs=297&langpage=heb as the original webpage has been deleted. DemoTony (talk) 20:51, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

 * ✅.  TG HL ↗  🍁 21:46, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 April 2024
I think this page is missing a padlock icon/protection template 125.160.115.29 (talk) 23:54, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ Liu1126 (talk) 00:26, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Golda Meir


text:
Killer bees

Killer bees most often refers to Africanized bees, a hybrid of the African honey bee with various European honey bees.

Killer bees or Killer B's may also refer to:

Film and television

 * Killer Bees (1974 film), a television movie featuring Gloria Swanson
 * Killer Bees! (2002 film), a television movie featuring Fiona Loewi
 * Killer Bees (2008 film) (Die Bienen — Tödliche Bedrohung), a German horror film
 * Killer Bees (2017 film), an American documentary film
 * Killer Bee (Naruto), a fictional character in the anime and manga series Naruto
 * The Killer Bees (SNL), a recurring sketch on the American comedy program Saturday Night Live
 * The Killer Bees (Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide characters), fictional characters in the TV series Ned's Declassified School Survival Guide

Music

 * Killer Bee (band), a Swedish-Canadian rock band formed by Anders Rönnblom and Brian Frank
 * Wu-Tang Killa Beez, a collective nickname for affiliates of the Wu-Tang Clan rap group
 * The Killer Bees, an American funk/soul/rock band co-founded by Papa Mali
 * WXKB, a Top 40 music radio station in Cape Coral, Florida nicknamed "The Killer B"
 * DXKB, a Philippine radio station, formerly nicknamed "Killer Bee"

Sports

 * Bridgehampton School, nickname of high school basketball team featured in 2017 film documentary.
 * The Killer Bees (professional wrestling), a professional wrestling tag team
 * Killer B's (Houston Astros), collective nickname for six Houston Astros players in the 1990s and early 2000s
 * Killer B's (Miami), collective nickname for eight Miami Dolphins defensive players in the 1980s
 * Rio Grande Valley Killer Bees (NAHL), a former North American Hockey League team based in Hidalgo, Texas, US
 * Rio Grande Valley Killer Bees (CHL), a former Central Hockey League team based in Hidalgo, Texas, US
 * Group B, a 1980s class of World Rally Championship cars nicknamed "Killer B's" due to their poor safety record
 * Killer B's (Pittsburgh), a nickname for three players for the 2013–2017 Pittsburgh Steelers: Ben Roethlisberger, Antonio Brown, and Le'Veon Bell

Video games

 * Killer Bees!, a 1983 video game for the Magnavox Odyssey2
 * Cammy, a character in the Street Fighter video-game series sometimes called Killer Bee

Other uses

 * Killer bees (business), firms or individuals employed by a target company to fend off a takeover bid
 * Killer Bees (Texas Senate), a group of Texas senators, including Glenn Kothmann, who in 1979 went into hiding to prevent a quorum
 * Killer Beez, a gang in New Zealand

title: Killer bees