text:
User:Sanbeg/Wikisource:Scriptorium/Archives/2010-12

= Announcements =

UK to review its Copyright laws
DYK that the UK is reviewing its Copyright laws, the details can be viewed at BBC News - UK copyright laws to be reviewed, announces Cameron. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 08:20, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Suppressing fundraising banner
For those who are logged in as regular users, there is the ability to suppress that banner through your gadgets. [Imported from enWP] — billinghurst  sDrewth  07:41, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

= Proposals =

Structure Portals by Dewey Decimal or Library of Congress Classification
Should the Portal: namespace be organised and indexed according to:
 * a) Dewey Decimal Classification (DDC)
 * b) Library of Congress Classification (LCC)
 * c) A different classification system
 * d) No systems at all - left as it is.

This came up in More about Author: namespace vs Portal: namespace (below at time of writing). I mentioned that it should be a proposal and, as that discussion seems to have ended for now, I thought I'd start it off. Each system has pros and cons.

DDC is in several editions, the earliest of which is in the public domain (copy at Project Gutenberg). Ten classes, each divided into ten divisons, each further divided into ten sections; although not all "slots" in this structure are used. Pros: Very commonly used in real-world libraries; Published and authoritative system; Clear and highly detailed structure. Cons: Possibly too detailed (full implementation would require roughly 900 portals in a hierarchy of up to 5 layers including the top level index, although many could remain as red links until actually required); Lowest level portals may get lost (or "diluted") among the many sections; Using a 19th century classification might by out of date over a century later.

LCC is public domain as a work of the US government (Library of Congress Classification). Twenty one classes, each divided into a varying number of subclasses. Pros: Presumably commonly used in American libraries; Published and authoritative system; Simple structure (full implementation would require roughly 200 portals in a hierarchy of up to 4 layers including the top level index; again, some could remain as red links); Up to date classification. Cons: America-centric (two classes for American history separate from the general history class; although, i) this need not apply if we use it, and, ii) we do have a lot of portals relating to American history anyway); Too many lowest-level portals in one sub-class could overwhelm the system (unlikely at the moment but it may happen later).

If someone wants to suggest another system, there are several to choose from, or Wikisource could create its own structure. Pros and cons depend on the suggestion, except for: Con: Non-standard or lesser used system. A Wikisource-specific system would offer the greatest flexibility, this simplest form of which could just be an alphabetic list of portals on Wikisource.

No system would be the easiest to implement as it involves doing nothing. Pros: No implementation; No maintenance. Cons: Portals would lack any organisation other than Category:Portals; Browsing and navigation would be difficult.

Examples, using Portal:British Museum:-
 * a) DDC: Portal:Index - Portal: Sociology (Class 3 Sociology) - Portal: Associations and Institutions (Division 6 Associations and Institutions) - Portal: Other Associations and Institutions (Section 9 Other) - Portal: British Museum (Classification 369)
 * b) LCC: Portal:Index - Portal: General Works (Class A: General Works) - Portal: Museums (Subclass M: Museums) - Portal: British Museum (Classification AM)
 * c) Other: Portal:Index - Undefined - Portal: British Museum
 * d) None: Portal: British Museum

So, what option would people prefer? Personally, I like (and am more familiar with) the Dewey system but I think Library of Congress Classification would be better for Wikisource. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 17:57, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Part of me says that a Wikisource-specific structure would be simpler, but on the other hand, in the interest of being more like a "library", we should have similar systems in place. Personally, I prefer using LCC because it's newer than the 19th century Dewey, and I feel that it's more rigorous.  That said, I'm not opposed to going to a deeper level than just two layers—if the need arose for using one or even two decimals in some LCC categories, that would be fine with me. —Spangineerwp (háblame) 13:48, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

 * For a more detailed look at how LCC can be implemented, I've created this user subpage. - AdamBMorgan (talk) 18:23, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
 * The questions in my mind would be:
 * 1. Which of these systems will be most intuitive for readers/browsers - is there one that is more popular than the other? (From a British perspective, DDC is much more common that LCC.)
 * 2. What happens to entries that don't fit under the LCC/DDC systems - would we end up extending the systems until we essentially had our own? (possibly not a downside - LCC/DCC would give us a solid starting point to expand on.)
 * 3. Would we aim, as a community, to have all of our works listed in the portal system (along with the author pages), such that we would identify and classify all works? (I'd love to see such rigorous organisation, but I'm not sure a) whether wikisource is ready for that yet, and b) whether it fits in the 'wiki way'.)
 * 3a. If so, might a category-based system rather that a page-based system be preferable for ease of maintenance? (This is slightly off topic, I'll admit, but it's something that should be considered before creating large numbers of portals. The cons of a category-based system are that you can't do lists e.g. Astronomy, and you can't monitor changes, but they are a lot easier to add/remove works from.)
 * Mike Peel (talk) 22:35, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry I missed this reply. I've made some other posts elsewhere and there doesn't seem to be a any consensus about this so far. Anyway, my answers would be:
 * Personally, I find DDC the most intuitive (I'm also British) but LLC is simpler and, while I find the category selection a bit odd, it is fairly straight forward.
 * There is a precedent for expanding LLC for local use; The National Library of Medicine classification system (NLM) does so. The 19th century DDC system also has gaps that can be used for local adaptation, which will be necessary for computing and other subjects.  In the latter case, however, there is a problem that new classification would not match the modern DDC equivalents (and if they do, then it raises copyright problems).  For LLC, I have tentatively added two categories to make everything fit: Class I (Texts by Country) because the existing Portal:Texts by Country was hard to categorise otherwise (is is Geography? History? Law? Literature?) and Class X (Wikisource) for any Wikisource specific portals like the current WikiProject portals.
 * I don't really intend to change the use of the Portal namespace with this system, so that would be a separate proposal. However, a category-based system would not fit the use of portals on sister projects; matching portals between projects in one of the intentions of further use of this namespace.  Further use will, I feel, create further confusion if the portals are not organised in some way.
 * In addition, I have another user page, LCC Index, to demonstrate the LLC system in action (I may use this for an actual portal at some stage, which would be the most basic way of implementing LLC). - AdamBMorgan (talk) 17:24, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

 * After trying to direct someone to this space today, finding no logical start point, or ability effectively navigate (still.again/whatever) and there being no other suggestions or work being done about how to organise, I would heartily encourage you to get into the Portal namespace and to organise. Definitely more an organisational aspect rather than recreating parts of the hierarchy unnecessarily.  I would suggest a ready means to identify pages that have been "sorted" and those that are newly created that may have not an alignment to a framework; this being that it makes sense to know what has been poked into a place, against something that appears in a place for no rhyme or reason. Especially need a few landing pages to direct people onwards. — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:42, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

 * OK, I've started doing this. So far, I've made two landing pages: Portal:Portals (top) and Portal:Index (bottom). I've incorporated navigational templates into portal header and classified all the portals I've found so far (some were in the Portal: namespace but not the category).  Navigation isn't complete: Portal:Index links to everything but there are gaps in the "chain" from Portal:Portals downwards.  I'm not sure how far to go. I created Portal: General Works for the top level of Class A and I have tried to make it work as a portal in it's own right rather than just a link between other portals.  I will probably continue until everything is linked up (again, making any additions valid as standalone portals).  "Sideways" links between similar portals exist sometimes but could be expanded as well (usually text links at the bottom of a page, although Wikipedia and at least one Wikisource portal uses images). - AdamBMorgan (talk) 02:10, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Change smaller, et al., to percentage-based sizes
A few times in the last few months I've noticed that the different browsers interpret text size differently. Template:Smaller gives smaller text when looking in Firefox or IE than in Chrome. For evidence, look at this image.

From the image, it looks like Template:Smaller is 75-80% of full size in Firefox, and 85-90% in Chrome. The difference may seem slight, but it results in pretty dramatic differences in readability. Template:X-smaller is miniscule in Firefox and IE, but still fairly readable in Chrome.

The same thing happens in reverse for Template:Larger and its cousins. In Chrome, the sizes do not get as big as in Firefox or IE as quickly.

My proposal is to change all these size templates to use a specific percentage rather than a relative term like "smaller" or "larger". From my testing, it appears that doing so will make the text size consistent for all browsers. This is how it is done at Wikipedia—the standard "small references" class in their MediaWiki:Commons.css is 90%, not "smaller".

I suggest reducing the amount of difference between the successive templates for our Firefox and IE-using readers. Thus, I recommend that we make the following changes:

If you can, look at the above table in multiple browsers before commenting. —Spangineer (háblame) 00:32, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

 * There was a discussion in May that went the other way Proposed deletions/Archives/2010-05 — billinghurst  sDrewth  04:01, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

 * Apparently "absolute" doesn't mean what I think it means. To be clear, I am proposing that we use specific percentages (font-size:90%, font-size:150%, etc.) rather than absolute (font-size:small) or relative (font-size:larger).  I don't think this option was brought up in the previous discussions.
 * smaller makes text dramatically smaller for many readers, and the view is inconsistent between browsers. For standardization of viewing, I feel that percentages would be a significant improvement and would allow smaller differences in text to be rendered and still be readable.
 * For example, see Page:Contemporary Opinion of the Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions, p2.djvu/23 and Page:State Documents on Federal Relations.djvu/25. Writers often use a slightly smaller font to separate two types of text (in these cases, editorial comment and quoted text).  If I use smaller in Chrome, I get a satisfactory result, but those who read in Firefox or IE get something significantly smaller.  —Spangineer (háblame) 11:25, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I have no objection to this, but I think the numbers ought to grow smoothly (i.e. a geometric progression), rather than showing sudden jumps: if "larger" is 25% bigger than "normal", then "x-larger" ought to be 25% bigger than "larger", etc. I say 25% because it best fits the figures you've proposed above. In this case the sequence of sizes would be 51%, 64%, 80%, 100%, 125%, 156%, 195%, 244%, 305%. I guess I'd prefer a smaller range, say 20%: i.e. 58%, 69%, 83%, 100%, 120%, 144%, 182%, 207%, 249%. Hesperian 12:39, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * That would be fine with me. I've used the 20% numbers and added a third column to the above table. —Spangineer (háblame) 13:40, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

 * I would like to see the proposal put into some works or parts of works and seen side-by-side to see what the impact of the formatting, especially some book front pages as that is often where we see the varied usage of different size templates. If we are getting to some of this, it would be nice to see if we can also look at some of the aspects of line height, and its variability, which has been problematic with some of these size templates. — billinghurst  sDrewth  21:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I have set up more examples. To compare two book front pages in your browser, go to User:Spangineer/font comparisons. I tried to get a sampling of the various font sizes.

I also took screenshots in the two most popular browsers: IE (7) and Firefox (3.5). The firefox image is available at File:FF 3.5 font comparison screenshot.jpg, while the IE image is below:

I think it's pretty well known that editors of Wikimedia projects tend to use IE much less than do readers of Wikimedia projects. Hence my concern that editors who use Firefox and Chrome (like me!) are setting fonts to what "looks good" to them, without checking what it looks like for others (especially IE). If the proposed fixed-percentage solution is put in place, this issue would be addressed. —Spangineer (háblame) 14:28, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * In IE (above image), notice how smaller and x-smaller give much smaller results than other browsers and the proposed solution. X-smaller gives almost unreadable text, and smaller would be uncomfortable to read more than a sentence or two (note that these are all caps; a paragraph of text is more difficult: see State_Documents_on_Federal_Relations/7n2 using IE 7, for example).  Additionally, IE renders larger text smaller than other browsers and the proposed solution.
 * Firefox is much closer to the proposed solution, but its smaller is slightly smaller than proposed.
 * In chrome, the current and proposed sizes are the same (to my eye, at least).
 * I implemented the geometric sizes idea to these templates yesterday. If there are any problems feel free to bring them up. —Spangineer (háblame) 17:41, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

= Other discussions =

= Questions =

Why line breaks are removed?
Hello!

I'm having a problem when I try to format some pages.

Here is an example: If we disable javascript in the browser and go edit some page, we see something like this:  iv

more accurate expression, as a problem, by ... and if we add line breaks (pressing "ENTER") between " " and "more", like this  iv

more accurate expression, as a problem, by ... , and then click in "Show changes", we see the addition in the diff as expected.

But if we enable Javascript, and then edit the same page and add the same line breaks in the beginning of the text in the editbox, and then click in "Show changes", the diff shows the addition but in the editbox there is one line break less than we added. So if we save the page the result will not be what we expected (although the diff is right).

Does anybody knows what script is removing the line breaks between the beginning of the wikitext and the header text and why is that happening?

Should this be reported at ? Helder (talk) 13:36, 25 October 2010 (UTC) tag. Repeat it as necessary; it won't disappear when you save the page. —Spangineer (háblame) 13:44, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure why it does this, but there are easy workarounds. Most of the time when we want a line break, it's to mark a new paragraph.  To do this, put nop at the bottom of the previous page (the page on which the paragraph ends).  Then just start the new paragraph on the second page normally.
 * If we do want line breaks at the beginning of a page, there's the

 * you can also put the nop at the beginning of the page. ThomasV (talk) 14:17, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The convention (current consensus) is to preserve the blank line at the end of a paragraph, forcing it at the bottom, rather than the top of page. It was convenient to adopt one way over the other. cygnis insignis 17:19, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestions. My intention was just to mark a new paragraph, as pointed by Spangineer.

What I don't understand is why the behavior is inconsistent: when saving a page, with or without javascript enabled, the result should be exactly the same. But this doesn't happens if the page in question has those line breaks in its beginning (intentionally put there by some previous editor), so if I user for example review such a page, and just want to update its status to "validated", it will make a unwanted change, even if according to the diff he saw, the edit was ok (doing nothing). The script which is causing this effect should be fixed. Helder (talk) 00:36, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I didn't understand the trouble... but try with two break lines. One break line is always ignored from html conventions (outside poem taged text obviuosly). I apologyze if I did a banal observation from misunderstanding. --Alex brollo (talk) 16:01, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * If someone add two line-breaks, and the next user to edit the page just validate it (maybe fixing some typo), some script will remove one of the line-breaks. This shouldn't happens, since this is not shown to the second user, even if he preview the changes (the diff will show nothing). The point is that this problem only happens for those wich javascript enabled (most of users). I've reported this as a bug in 26028. Helder (talk) 19:43, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe that it is part of the Proofread Page script and is probably more of a feature rather than a bug. I am neither sure why you would want to add uncontrolled blank lines at the top of a work. If they are wanted and to be retained then it makes more sense to add them explicitly otherwise the next proofreader is just as likely to remove them anyway. In the sense of converting from book to web it doesn't make sense to me. — billinghurst  sDrewth  03:26, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Match and split (1)
It.source (as you see here) has lots of "naked" texts, but recently we are doing a huge effort to convert them into proofread texts, and you can see the result at the right of the graph: naked texts began to decrease while "with scans" texts are growing. A different pattern can be seen here where en.source works are represented: bot "naked" and "with scans" texts are growing (so I presume that a similar huge effort to convert naked into with scans text is not presently going on). We are developing tools to automatyze the "match" that is, by experience, the most annoying part of the work, particularly when sections are small or very small. I'd like to share tricks if some of you is interested. You can find an example of "autoMatch" here: it:Myricae. All the match tags have been loaded into sections by a bot. Just to make your work a little easier if you consider to start with a large "conversion" project. like fr.source. :-) --Alex brollo (talk) 16:08, 27 October 2010 (UTC)
 * We have found that match and split is something that needs to be undertaken mindfully and with some precision. For English-language works, there has been found to be sufficient elements of variance between editions, be they simply later or earlier, or the more complex situation of British English vs American English.  Add to that we have found that significant numbers of works that were brought over from Gutenberg are not readily tagged with the edition history, so it has been a slower process.  All up it has just made it a slower process, and one that we are getting to rather than focusing upon as the priority.  So many works to choose from, so little time to get to the works.  Also, many of our more recent works added that are considered 'naked' are legal cases where the image files are not readily available.  C'est la vie. — billinghurst  sDrewth  03:47, 28 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, it.source too has lots of books without an appropriate IA source, coming from Gutemberg or other free sources. Nevertheless the number of IA books is fastly growing, and we found many books perfectly matching to our text (sometimes the same edition!).
 * This my possible contribution: if any of you finds a Internet Archive source of a en.source book, and your community agrees, tell me by a message into my talk page and I'll try to run autoMatch on it. I'm very interested to run it into other projects, to test it. If you dislike the result, you'll simply rollback the bot edits and the test will not leave any garbage. I drive here an unflagged bot, so I'll use a slow throttle, more than 60 sec/edit, as en.source community states; al least, I hope I'll remember to do so... :-( --Alex brollo (talk) 06:57, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

A Book of Nursery Rhymes
nyone who needs something to do can go here and work on this book:

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:A_Book_of_Nursery_Rhymes.djvu

I need people to proofread/validate it so we can get it done. - Tannertsf (talk) 10:12, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

class="prose" has changed
I haven't touched Wikisource for a few months and I noticed that on pages that i formatted using the text is window-wide and has no proper margins as it used to. For example, on Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar/95. Paradigms of Feminine Nouns.

The biggest problem with this, at least for this book, is that the paragraph numbers, inserted using number overlap with the text.

The strangest part is that when i try to edit a page, it looks correctly in the preview.

What can i do to fix that? --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 23:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

 * As I understand it, a decision was taken to put these layout decisions in the hands of the reader rather than the editor. Therefore the "prose", "indented-text", etc classes now do nothing, but you will find a "Display options" section in the sidebar, which you can use to cycle through various layouts. Hesperian 00:00, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

 * A 'decision' you say??? Can you point us to that discussion, please? George Orwell III (talk) 00:04, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Scriptorium/Archives/2010-10 Hesperian 00:54, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah; my mistake. I was looking at the Proposal and Announcement sections - for an announcement or even a proposal -- Never thought to go right to Questions. Thanks. George Orwell III (talk) 01:25, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I tried to cycle through them and they are all screwed up. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 00:10, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I think this can be corrected by changing number to use the sidenote-left and sidenote-right classes described in MediaWiki:Common.js, but I can't experiment with it because the dynamic layouts system apparently only kicks in on saved edits in the main space. Someone who's more familiar with the usage of that template, please look it over. Prosody (talk) 03:32, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The only possible value for argument class at number is lefttext and i don't see how it is useful for this page... or for any other. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 16:19, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I changed number as I proposed above. I don't know how Genesius was formatted previously, so please check if it's now satisfactory. Note that it will still be broken in the Page namespace unless sidenotes begin and sidenotes end (see the Usage notes for a brief explanation) are added to the header and footer. Hopefully that will be rendered unnecessary in the near future. Prosody (talk) 18:52, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you! It looks better now (more detailed reply at Template talk:Number.)
 * Is it possible to make "Layout 2" the default for this book? It looks best with it. (Best = most similar to the appearance in the printed edition to which most of its readers are used.) --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 18:58, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think that's possible yet. But if your problem with Layout 1 is the bordered inline sidenotes, maybe an admin reading this will consider editing Commons.js to standardize on the simple Layout 2 sidenotes, leaving additional styling to templates and such. Prosody (talk) 21:00, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It is a problem for this particular book. These notes may be OK for other books. Everyone should be able to choose what's appropriate in each case.
 * I am going to show a presentation of this digital edition of Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar to a large group of members of The Academy of the Hebrew Language next week and i will feel awkward telling them: "Now, to see this book nicely you must click 'Layout 1' on the right". --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 21:33, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Can I recommend against sidenotes bits as they can get really ugly, and there has been some issues with them, especially as right sidenotes are problematic in a web environment where we shouldn't be enforcing a right margin. We should be looking to replace number with page break and utilise the left numbering option, and then use class=indented-text. — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:00, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I use number for paragraph numbers. There are also page numbers, which are inserted using page - they usually appear on the left, too. If they can both live together nicely on the left-hand side, i'm OK with it. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 05:36, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Preface to Curieuses Natur-Kunst-Gewerck- und Handlungs-Lexicon 1712 needs some love
This page needs some research and some love, as it seems to be ye olde contribution that no longer meets our style, if it ever did. If someone has some time it would be good if someone could tidy it up and fix the shortcomings. Thanks. — billinghurst  sDrewth  04:38, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I did a little. It doesn't seem Olaf Simons explicitly released the translation under a permissive license, though the "By saving, you agree to irrevocably release your contribution under the Creative Commons Attribution/Share-Alike License 3.0 and the GFDL. You agree to be credited by re-users, at minimum, through a hyperlink or URL to the page you are contributing to. See the Terms of Use for details." thing might have done it for him. Does that call for emailing him? Also, do we still do bilingual side-by-side texts in the age of the crosswiki matching thing (imperfect though it may be)?

Is there a free software java solution for converting printed text --> searchable PDF?
I have a printed text and a scanner (Lexmark X2330).

Is there a free software, pure java (i.e. platform independent), solution that will: Such a software package would seem to match, exactly, with the spirit of Wikisource. Has it been made yet? --89.9.84.179 19:45, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Let me make a searchable PDF-file.
 * 2) That is still photographically true to the original.
 * 3) With clickable links back and forth between the main text and footnotes/reference list and the table of contents.
 * 4) With the page numbers in the PDF file corresponding to the page numbers in the printed text.

Password question
I received an email from wiki today saying that someone from my ip requested a new password. I ignored it because I had not asked for a new password. However, since then my account has been logging out during my edits more that usual. Is there a connection between these two events? Is there something I should do? I don’t want to change my password for no reason as I’ve had it for a while and can remember it.
 * Someone has kindly (not) hit the [E-mail new password] button from the login screen, so you will need to use that new password, login and change it back to your preferred password. If someone continues to do that, then one of the CheckUsers can investigate a reported problem. — billinghurst  sDrewth  05:14, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Is it normal for an account to log out several times a day in the middle of an edit? I don’t know why my account has started doing this, but it seems to be getting worse. For years I never had trouble, then it started a few months ago to log out once a day, and now it logs out many times a day. Mattisse (talk) 14:33, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * No, not unless your password has changed (like this case). The button described above resets your password, and accordingly your browser isn't talking the right password to the system, and that is akin to logging you out. So, go back login with the reissued password, and then reset your password as you want it to be.  You should then be right to stay logged in. — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:42, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

How to put together a book
I have downloaded and proofed Index:Travels with a Donkey In The Cevennes.djvu but I can’t seem to put it together. Is there anywhere that explains how to do this? I have tried to copy what others are doing but nothing is working for me. Thanks, Mattisse (talk) 14:31, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You're off to a good start. The thing you got wrong with Chapter I is that  goes and fetches data from wherever the index= says the index is. On the mainpage of the work, you put index="Travels with a Donkey In The Cevennes.djvu", which is correct--Index:Travels with a Donkey In The Cevennes.djvu is where you'd find the index. But on Chapter I you put index="Travels with a Donkey in the Cevennes (1905)" . The Mediawiki program goes to look for Index:Travels with a Donkey in the Cevennes (1905) and doesn't find anything, so it gives an error. Unless you're doing a work that spans multiple volumes, it's probably easiest to just copy and paste the  thing once you've got it right, and then just change the to= and from= parameters.
 * A few other minor pointers: in the header, the author is automatically linked, unless you add an authoroverride parameter (useful for some weird situations like more than one author). I think is automatically applied to articles in the Main: namespace (i.e. not User: or Page: or Wikisource: etc.) which use  . Prosody (talk) 16:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I’m afraid what you are saying is all Greek to me. I have copied many difference codes from other books, but nothing works for this one. Mattisse (talk) 16:33, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * For those new to the site, this is another explanation of how Travels with a Donkey in the Cevennes (1905) pulls the transcript using the

 * index="Travels with a Donkey In The Cevennes.djvu"
 * from= Page:Travels with a Donkey In The Cevennes.djvu/ 9
 * from= Page:Travels with a Donkey In The Cevennes.djvu/ 17
 * See also Help:Proofread. —cygnis insignis 16:59, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the tips but this particular one is beyond me. Part of the problem is that this is the only version of "Travels with a Donkey in the Cevennes" on the site that has a scan with it. None of the other versions have a djvu. Anyway, I can’t figure it out. So I am giving up on it. Sorry! I have managed to figure out others by copying code etc., but this one is beyond me. Mattisse (talk) 21:32, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It is the component that is important, so here  = Travels with a Donkey In The Cevennes.djvu so …

See the alignment required between three namespaces. Now we do not or cannot have to have that same alignment into the main namespace, hence why we have to be explicit in the transclusion, rather than rely on the alignment factors. Is that more helpful? — billinghurst  sDrewth  12:20, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Thomas Wyatt's poetry
These two poems are identical: The Lover Showeth How He Is Forsaken of Such as He Sometime Enjoyed and Vixi Puellis Nuper Idoneus.... One should be redirected to the other, but which is the correct title?--Longfellow (talk) 16:12, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Whatever the source says. cygnis insignis 17:02, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Neither poem is sourced.--Longfellow (talk) 21:52, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Page:Oxford Book of English Verse 1250-1918.djvu/93 cygnis insignis 22:29, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

I believe Wyatt's original was untitled. It was probably known by its incipit, as even today a Google search suggests that most web versions of it are under the incipit "They flee from me that sometime did me seek". It was first anthologised in Tottel's Miscellany, the first ever printed anthology of English Poetry, wherein Tottel gave it the title "The Lover Showeth How He Is Forsaken of Such as He Sometime Enjoyed". Quiller-Couch later retitled it "Vixi Puellis Nuper Idoneus..." when he included it in The Oxford Book of English Verse.

If we didn't have a scan to hand, I would favour redirecting both titles to the incipit, but as Cygnis has found a scan, I agree with his suggestion that the scan by followed.

Hesperian 23:41, 10 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks; I've done that.--Longfellow (talk) 10:50, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

Nupedia
restarting this discussion

Hi all. Nupedia was an encyclopedia published in the 2000s (you know... ; )). Why do not save it in Wikisource? There are some articles in Internet Archive. The articles can contain useful info, of course, and Nupedia is the predecessor of Wikipedia, "our history". Regards. Emijrp (talk) 09:58, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Not sure why we would want to focus on a compiled information that may or may not have had peer review, versus the works that we know did have peer review, with some of the earlier encyclopaedia and biographical data. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:32, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Take a look at the Wikipedia article - there was a lengthy reviewing process for articles. Only 24 article exist in full form (i.e. having gone through the whole review process), in brief and long formats. I think it's worthwhile hosting an archive copy of those articles here, if only for their historical value as the articles of the predecessor to Wikipedia. Mike Peel (talk) 09:11, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

 * That's the point. Emijrp (talk) 11:11, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

This sounds like a great idea. Is it against any current wikisource policies? What is needed to make this happen? The Internet Archive's version of Nupedia is rather hard to navigate, and feels incomplete -- it would also be nice to know what the final set of articles was when Nupedia stopped accepting new entries (and which of the early wikipedia entries were in line to become Nupedia articles!). Perhaps one of the old-timers such as Magnus or Ruth could help with that part of reviewing the final source-collection. Sj (talk) 19:39, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

 * I have seen now that the Nupedia license was GFDL 1.1, any problem? Emijrp (talk) 21:23, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

 * This has been rejected before. It violates WS:WWI. John Vandenberg (chat) 22:09, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
 * How so? I would take original Nupedia articles as historic documents. BD2412 T 04:08, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Historical documents is for source documents which are relevant to understand history. An email about Nupedia penned by Jimmy or Larry is a historical document.  The output of the Nupedia project is not.  Nupedia was not traditionally published and consists of WS:WWI and are a snapshot of WS:WWI. John Vandenberg (chat) 06:07, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
 * John is right, I'm afraid. Moreover, the terms for GFDL to CC-BY-SA relicensing have expired and we would need an exception to the Terms of Use to import GFDL-only text.
 * However, I think that a solution can be found. How many pages are to be imported? If they're not many, we could put them under m:Meta:Historical or in en.wiki Wikipedia: namespace. If they're many and we need Wikisource templates and facilities, we could put them in some existing or new namespace, so that they can avoid following general rules (because they wouldn't be mixed to normal content). --Nemo bis (talk) 08:46, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

 * See also w:Wikipedia:Nupedia and Wikipedia and Nupedia Open Content License. cygnis insignis 10:57, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
 * And Nupedia Open Content License probably needs to be deleted for the same reasons as Possible_copyright_violations/Archives/2006-11 .. as Darkfalls says at Talk:Nupedia Open Content License. John Vandenberg (chat) 12:06, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Erm ... huh? Am I correct in interpreting this discussion as a) saying we can't accept works freely licensed under the GFDL, and 2) that Nupedia - the predecessor to Wikipedia - does not count as a work helping people to understand history (in this case, the development of Wikipedia)? Neither of those interpretations make any sense at all to me. Mike Peel (talk) 20:26, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

 * If Nupedia articles cannot be hosted in Wikisource, where can I save them (a wiki project)? Emijrp (talk) 16:01, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * As noted, beside the archives for the 24 articles, they are already linked from the wikipedia article, in the wikipedia namespace. cygnis insignis 19:33, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

commons categories
While standarizing category names on commons Somebody attempted to remove information that specific books are used in wikisource projects. Please comment here if you need. Ankry (talk) 11:52, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I have created these two categories in order to include all English books used in Wikisource projects and the same thing for the French ones. Is this correct? --Zyephyrus (talk) 13:14, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Request for help
I am asking for some pointers to help pages that describe how to deal with such pages as Page:Book of the Riviera.djvu/182. Also, I would very much appreciate some directions to help pages explaining how to format "Table of Contents" and "Illustrations" pages. Thank you very much. Mattisse (talk) 21:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Regarding your Riviera problem, no such help pages exist. I solved this problem at Page:Don Quixote (Cervantes, Ormsby) Volume 1.djvu/30 by wrapping the entire thing in  to ensure a fixed-width typeface, and then using the standard Unicode box-drawing characters, together with spaces and hard line breaks. It was difficult and took ages. Hesperian 23:52, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
 * For genealogies I have cheated and copied it as an image and added that, eg. Page:The life of Matthew Flinders.djvu/34. Then on the talk page I have  added the names so that a search engine can find them and just then link through.  A little issue is that it links to the Page talk namespace, and I haven't done anything about pulling that to the main namespace talk page. — billinghurst  sDrewth  00:13, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I have used a combination of familytree and html to replicate the diagram fairly well, but it was a bit time-consuming! --Eliyak T·C 07:36, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

 * Thanks guys! I have to admit that I have never used Unicode and have no idea how to go about it. I am not a techie person, so I am unfit for a lot of the tasks Wikisource requires Mattisse (talk) 16:34, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * You don't have to grok Unicode to copy-paste box-drawing characters. Hesperian 23:06, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Everything I do is copy/paste. I have spent several days trying to copy/paste a certain format or a box-drawing without success. Maybe I’m not proficient enough for Wikisource?  Mattisse (talk) 23:19, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Only you know the answer to that question. I don't know whether you're looking for someone to criticise you or stroke your ego, but either way you're not going to find it here. We don't go in for that shit on Wikisource; that's more of a Wikipedia thing. Hesperian 05:22, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

What is being done about Category:PD-manifesto ?
Could you please tell me what is being done about the above which is currently under possible copyright violations. In particular I'm asking because there are speeches by former Prime Minister of Australia John Howard in this category. --kathleen wright5 (talk) 22:39, 19 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Presuming that you have read the dialogue about removal of PD-manifesto, those that are copyright violations are slowly being deleted. If there are any works that have that tag and can be tagged with another appropriate PD tag, then they should be updated, if they cannot, they will be removed. Jusjih has been moving those that are non-compliant with US though compliant with Canada copyright law. — billinghurst  sDrewth  03:40, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

OCR generator tool
The toolserver OCR generator tool is no longer linked in the Page: namespace editing toolbar; I've posted on this at User experience feedback, but nothing has happened. —innotata 01:52, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It is showing for me in both monobook and vector. Do you have it turned on in your gadgets? — billinghurst  sDrewth  03:19, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It doesn't show for me in either skin, and in preferences there is an opt-out option, which I don't have ticked. It might be a problem with my browser or something like that; regardless, using the new editing toolbar without integrating the old buttons probably is in part to blame. —innotata 14:49, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, turn off (at lest when you want to OCR) the beta toolbar and it should come back. Well, when I turn mine on, I see it momentarily flash and disappear. — billinghurst  sDrewth  17:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I found an option to remove the new toolbar in preferences, but I don't remember adding it for Wikisource and would never choose to, and I believe it was changed by default, a bit after the change to the vector skin. Furthermore, not all the buttons that used to be in the toolbar for the Page namespace are there (though all the useful ones are). In any case, shouldn't OCR be opt-out for all skins and editing toolbars? Do you know who to ask on this? —innotata 22:25, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Would suggest that you point to this conversation.  He is the knowledge base for this stuff, it being his tool, and that he did some work around vector with it all. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:22, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

History of the prophets and kings
I was wondering whether or not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Prophets_and_Kings could be added on to here. I know we would have to find good scans. - Tannertsf (talk) 23:00, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
 * If it meets the criteria as at WS:WWI then yes. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:25, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The original Arabic can be found at ar:تاريخ الطبر. The English translation appears to still be under copyright, so Wikisource could not host it at this time. --Eliyak T·C 04:39, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Scanned page doesn't show up
I downloaded Index:The Amateur Emigrant-The Silverado Squatters.djvu but the OCR page doesn’t show up. If I click the OCR button for a page, a garbled version of the page pops up that is difficult to proof. Is there a way to fix this? (I tried to choose a clean djvu version to down load.) Thanks! Mattisse (talk) 13:04, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I purged the file at Commons, and the text layer is now presented. — billinghurst  sDrewth  13:45, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * That’s great. Thank you so much. Mattisse (talk) 13:48, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Would you be willing to delete Page:The Amateur Emigrant-The Silverado Squatters.djvu/24 as that is a garbled version of the page? Then I could start the page over with a clean scan. Mattisse (talk) 13:55, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ Deleted the existing, and returned with the underlying text layer. — billinghurst  sDrewth  14:41, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Odd Hebrew Bug
This code קִטֵּל shows:

קִטֵּל

The dagesh (center dot) is to the left of the letter ט, not in the center. The other diacritics are also shifted left. When I do not specify Ezra SIL SR as the font, it displays just fine. The problem appears to be with the way my browser(s) are displaying Ezra SIL SR, which is a great font otherwise. This issue arises because Wikisource's Hebrew language templates (specifically the ones used by Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar) specify Ezra SIL SR as one font option, and this font is in fact recommended at the top of the Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar page. I am using the latest Firefox and Chrome on Ubuntu 10.10, and this issue was also noticed by a user in Firefox on Windows XP. Any ideas?

I would also appreciate it if people would chime in to confirm whether they see this bug or not. --Eliyak T·C 05:07, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * It probably also has something to do with the way MediaWiki saves the Biblical Hebrew text. It may make certain changes on the way to the database (i believe that it's called "Unicode normalization", but i'm not sure; experts are welcome to correct me). For example, if you try to type the same word on the same computer in the same font in OpenOffice, it will likely look correctly.
 * The frustrating thing about it is that Ezra SIL SR is an excellent font for Biblical Hebrew, but that MediaWiki breaks it, even though the regular (read: shitty) Hebrew fonts, like David and Arial, display this particular thing correctly. The regular fonts cannot, however, display the Hebrew accents, which are required for presenting Biblical Hebrew.
 * In Windows Vista and 7 it looks fine - these operating systems fix the display back. (BTW, in Windows 7, the regular Hebrew fonts can even display the accents pretty well.) --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 10:09, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm using Vista and it appears just fine, as well (on both Chrome and FireFox).—Zhaladshar (Talk) 16:00, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks fine in XP with FF 4.0, well maybe that should be they look the same. — billinghurst  sDrewth  11:05, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, uninstalling Ezra SIL SR and installing SB Hebrew makes this example display in the default font, and Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar look pretty. I guess the solution for certain systems is to install the SBL Hebrew font. I will note this at Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar. --Eliyak T·C 02:53, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi everyone, the bug is here. Dovi (talk) 03:47, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

 * From what I've seen, this bug is only with the Ezra SIL SR font, possibly only on certain systems. A test on Browsershots.org gave no issues on all major browsers and OS's. However, I could see that the fonts on those systems were not Ezra SIL SR, which is necessary to display the cantillation marks in addition to the nikkud in Gesenuis' Hebrew Grammar, and perhaps other works. --Eliyak T·C 07:38, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Making one of the layouts the default for a certain book
Look at Talk:Gesenius' Hebrew Grammar.

A reader is complaining there that he can't see the page numbers.

I do see them, logged-in and anonymous, but maybe there is a problem, indeed. And in any case, i would really like to have Layout 2 as the default for that particular book. Is there still no way to do that? --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 10:02, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * We would need an answer from ThomasV, it is his adaptation. — billinghurst  sDrewth  11:01, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

"Split without match"
I'd like to share an IMHO undocumented feature of Match and Split tool. When image source has no text layer, Match can't be launched obviusly; nevertheless a patient contributor can add manually Split codes into Ns0 text, marking the beginning of Page: pages. The "split codes" haven't anything "magic", they are simply links to the Page: pages into h2 tags in new lines, something like  == full name of the page == . Only take care to close poem tags before the code, and to open a new tag poem tag after, if page break falls inside a poem. The advantage is that text is moved into nsPage in a clean way when Split function is launched, and that it's cleanly replaced by a pages index tag into Ns0. --Alex brollo (talk) 09:10, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The unusual applications of the tool—perhaps the name is misleading—takes advantage of its most useful feature: moving a section of text into the page namespace. I have used it to move a text layer from one file to another here, or from archive.org, by using subst: and Page. Another use is splitting corrected sections of ocr text, which may suit some peoples work-flow if there a large number of tedious fixes. (or missing chunks … ") cygnis insignis 10:36, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Page:Hoyt's New Cyclopedia Of Practical Quotations (1922).djvu/26
Page:Hoyt's New Cyclopedia Of Practical Quotations (1922).djvu/26 is not scanned properly. Is there a way I can fix this, or does a repair require some technical permission? BD2412 T 23:24, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * For me, pressing the OCR button gives the result "undefined", and as it works for other pages on site, all I can guess is that it is struggling with something in the work. Looks like it will be a manual typing job. — billinghurst  sDrewth  03:01, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I also had an "undefined" result when trying to OCR this page, which was generated by djvulibre's c44 function. I'm not sure if that could affect anything. In the end I just typed it up by hand. Anyone else had an "undefined" result from the OCR function? Inductiveload— talk/contribs  22:29, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Interwiki links to Oldwikisource?
Is there a trick to doing interwiki links for left hand side to oldwikisource? Tried to add one for The faith of a Belarusian and it just sticks in the bottom as a plain link. — billinghurst  sDrewth  17:20, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

 * Interwiki links to or from oldwikisource don't work, which is why other means like wikisourceold have to be used instead. A workaround is asking the developers to redirect a specific language subdomain to oldwikisource – for example, eo.wikisource.org redirects to wikisource.org, causing interwiki links with "eo:" to work correctly (example). There's no redirect in place for Belarusian, though... Jafeluv (talk) 23:42, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * 26124 — billinghurst  sDrewth  00:32, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Prevent space between transcluded pages
Hi all. Is there a way to prevent a space from being added between two transcluded pages with the syntax? For example, if the first page ends with an em dash there should be no space between it and the next word. An example would be Page:Pierre and Luce.djvu/18, transcluded here. I've looked through the formatting templates but couldn't figure out how this could be done. Thanks, Jafeluv (talk) 21:10, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Cheat. On the first page, add the   to the bottom <noinclude> section, and then wrap the same text inside <includeonly> on the next page. Worth adding a comment inside <!-- --> on the first page explaining what you are doing. — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:21, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Genius! Thanks, Billinghurst. Jafeluv (talk) 01:38, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Another way, essentially the same, it to use hws/hwe. cygnis insignis 03:38, 29 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I thought about that, but it would have produced an extraneous hyphen in the page namespace in addition to the dash. Jafeluv (talk) 09:45, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

bad scan
Index:Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire vol 2 (1897).djvu is a bad scan, and I was wondering if someone could find another scan and upload it? - Tannertsf (talk) 01:20, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Have you checked archive.org and books.google.com to see what is around, especially noting variances of editions? — billinghurst  sDrewth  01:22, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes. I have found other editions, but not the ones with the sidenotes, like the edition we have on here (the bad scan). I'm looking for a sidenotes edition. - Tannertsf (talk) 01:24, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I've re-uploaded a higher quality version from the same source. However, instead on relying on the IA's often sloppy transcoding, I used djvudigital (part of djvulibre) to transcode the original PDF to DjVu at a higher quality/lower compression ratio. Since there are no pages done yet, I've also removed the Google page at the front. Inductiveload— talk/contribs  22:26, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! - Tannertsf (talk) 22:43, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Xmas news and greetings
"Merry Christmas to one and All" was included in one of the extracts on the English Wikipedia mainpage for xmas day from wikisource. One of them got nearly a 1,000 views. The DYK jook said "Did You Know ...... that the Robert Haven Schauffler book for Christmas 1907 (pictured) included prose by Dickens and Washington Irving and an article on whether there is a Santa Claus?" I say this so others know that wikisource can get some marketing this way. Cheers Victuallers


text:
User:Sanbeg/Wikisource:Scriptorium

Scriptorium Scriptorium __NEWSECTIONLINK__

mul:Scriptorium

= Announcements =

= Proposals = = Bot approval requests =
 * See Bots for information about applying for a bot status
 * See Bot requests if you require an existing bot to undertake a task

=Repairs (and moves)= = Other discussions =
 * Designated for requests related to the repair of works (and scans of works) presented on Wikisource

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Sanbeg/Wikisource:Scriptorium


text: Portal:Bibliography and Library Science

title: Portal:Bibliography and Library Science


text:
Page:The Partisan (revised).djvu/258

248 began to whistle, and obviously assumed a degree of composure which he did not feel. He had been taking his midday repast at the spring, which trickled from the hillside below them; and the remains of his meal, consisting of a bit of dried venison, cold ham, and corn hoecake, were still open upon the grass, lying on the buckskin wrapper which contained them. The man was certainly a traveller, and had ridden far; the condition of his horse proved that; though his dress and appearance were those of the plain farmers of the neighbourhood. A coarse blue homespun coatee, with thin, whity-brown pantaloons, loosely made, and a quaker hat, in the riband of which a huge pipe was stuck ostentatiously, formed his habit. But Singleton saw that the pipe had never been smoked, and his inference was not favourable to the traveller, from this simple circumstance.

Throwing his bridle to Lance Frampton, the partisan alighted, and approached the stranger, who turned to meet him. There was quite a show of good-humour in his countenance, as Singleton drew nigh, and yet the latter saw his real trepidation; and the anxious looks which, more than once, he cast upon the stout animal which had borne him, seemed to say how glad he would have been to use him in flight, could he possibly have thought to do so in safety.

"Good-day, my friend, good-day. You have ridden far," said Singleton, "and your horse tells it. May I ask what quarter you come from?"

"Oh yes, to be sure you may, stranger; there's no harm that I can see in the question, only as it happens to want an answer. It's no safe matter, now-a-days, stranger, to tell one's starting and stopping, since, you see, it mayn't altogether please them that hears."

There was evidently a disposition on the part of the countryman to feel his way, and see how far he could bully the new-comer, in this equivocal sort of speech. But he was mistaken in the man before him, and though he had spoken his evasive reply in a manner meant to be conciliatory while it remained unsatisfactory, he was soon compelled to see that his questioner was by no means to be trifled with.

"Safe or not, my friend," said Singleton, gravely, "there are some questions that a man must answer, whether he likes it or no:

title: Page:The Partisan (revised).djvu/258


text:
Page:The Partisan (revised).djvu/259

Rh there is a school proverb that you must remember, about the bird that can sing and will not."

The man turned his tobacco in his jaws, and though evidently annoyed and disquieted, replied—

"Why, yes, stranger, I reckon I know what you mean, though I haint had much schooling; three months one year, and three another, and then three years without any, don't teach a body every kind of larning. But the saying you p'int to I remember well enough; Many's the time I've hearn it. 'The bird that wont sing must be made to sing.'"

"I see your memory may be relied upon for other matters," said Singleton; "and now, taking care not to forget the proverb, you will please answer me a few questions."

"Well, stranger, I'm willing enough. I'm all over good-natur, and never fail to git vexed with myself afterward, when the devil drives me to be oncivil to them that treats me well. Ax your questions straight off-hand, and Pete Larkin is the boy to answer, far as his larning goes."

"I am glad, Mr. Larkin, for your own sake, that you have this temper. You will please to say, now, where you are from."

"Well, now, stranger, I'm only come from a little above—and as you say, I've had a tough ride of it; but it's a good critter, this here nag of mine, and does one's heart good to go on him. So, you see, when I'm on him, I goes it. I hate mightily to creep, terrapin fashion, in a dogtrot; for you see, stranger, it's a bad gait, and sickens a short man, though the horse that travels stands it best of any."

Singleton had no disposition to interrupt the speaker, though he saw that he meant to be evasive. He watched his features attentively, while he spoke, and when he had done, proceeded in his inquiries.

"From above! but what part? I would know precisely, Mr. Larkin."

"Well, now, stranger, as I haint got no secrets, I 'spose I may as well tell you 'xactly how 'tis. I'm from cl'ar across the Santee: I live 'pon the Santee, or thereabouts."

"Indeed! and is it true, as we hear below, that the wolves have grown troublesome in that quarter?"

title: Page:The Partisan (revised).djvu/259


text:
Page:The Partisan (revised).djvu/260

250 "Wolves, stranger? Well, now, that can't be; for, you see, I come from all about, and nobody that I seed along the road, or in any settlement, made complaint. I reckon you aint hearn very particular right, now."

"It must be the owls, then—yes, it is the owls; have you seen any of them on your way?"

This question, urged with the utmost gravity by the partisan, completed the fellow's astonishment. Revolving the huge quid of tobacco—for such it seemed—which from the commencement of the dialogue had been going to and fro between his jaws, it was some seconds before he could recover sufficiently from his astonishment to reply.

"Owls! God bless me, stranger, but that's a queer question, anyhow. To be sure thar's owls all along the Santee. You may hear them in the swamp any time o' night, and an ugly noise they makes all night long, but nobody thinks o' minding them. They troubles nobody, and sometimes, when there's going to be a death in the family, the white owls comes into the bedroom, and they won't drive 'em out, for you see it's no use; the sick body will die after that, whether they drive the owl off or no."

"Yes, yes—true;" said Singleton musingly, while watching the other's countenance with a circumspect regard. He saw that the countryman was not the man he expected, but even with this discovery there had grown other suspicions as to his real character, the more particularly as he perceived how disquieted the examination and restraint had made him. After a moment's pause, he proceeded to put a more direct inquiry.

"Where do you live upon the Santee?"

"Well, now, stranger, I don't know if you'll know the place when I tell you, seeing it's a little out of the way of the settlement; but I live close upon the left hand fork of the White Oak Branch, a leetle above the road that runs to Williamsburg. I come down that road when I crossed the Santee."

"And where did you cross the Santee?"

"At Vance's ferry:—I 'spose you know where that is?"

"I do; but why did you not cross at Nelson's—why go out of your way to Vance's?"

title: Page:The Partisan (revised).djvu/260


text:
Page:The Partisan (revised).djvu/261

Rh The countryman stammered, hesitated for a moment, and while he replied, his eye sank beneath the penetrating glance of Singleton.

"Well, Stranger, to say truth, 'twas beca'se I feared to come by Nelson's; I was afeard of the inimy?"

"And whom do you call the enemy?"

"Them that's not a friend to me and my friends; them's my inimies, stranger, and I reckon them's your inimies too."

"Perhaps so; but I must first know who they are, before I can say. Speak out, my good fellow, and let your answers be a little more to the point, if you please."

The mass of tobacco, in the fellow's jaws, performed a more rapid revolution before the man replied; and he then did so only as he saw the hand of Singleton upon the pistol in his belt.

"Well, stranger, if I must, I must: so, by the inimy I means the rebels; them that aint friendly to the king's government—them's the inimy; and there was plenty to spare of them at the nighest track. The river swamp at Nelson's was chock full of Marion's men, and there was no passing; so I took the road across, down by Wright's Bluff, that lets you into the Vance's ferry track, and—"

"You stopped at Watson's?

Singleton put the question affirmatively, and the other looked surprised; the tobacco was about to be revolved from the one jaw to the opposite side, as had been the case at almost every interval made between his sentences, when, quick as lightning, and with a grasp of steel, Singleton seized him by the throat. The fellow strove to slip away, but never did finger more tenaciously gripe the throat of an enemy. The partisan was a man of immense strength, and the stranger was short and small. His powers were far inferior. He strove to struggle, and laboured, but in vain, to speak. The fingers were too closely compressed; and, still maintaining his hold with more tenacity than ever, the assailant bore him down to earth, and with his knee fixed firmly upon his breast, in spite of

title: Page:The Partisan (revised).djvu/261


text:
Page:The Partisan (revised).djvu/262

252 every effort for release by the man beneath him, he choked him until his tongue hung out upon his cheek, and his jaws were sufficiently distended to enable him to secure the game for which he toiled so desperately. Turning the bearer of despatches—for the prisoner was such—upon his side, the silver bullet which contained them rolled forth upon the grass, and in a moment after was secured by the ready hands of Lance Frampton.

title: Page:The Partisan (revised).djvu/262


text:
Category:Cryptography

Cryptography is the practice and study of hiding information. Modern cryptography intersects the disciplines of mathematics, computer science, and electrical engineering.

title: Category:Cryptography


text:
Page:Chinese without a teacher - being a collection of easy and useful sentences.djvu/1

 {|

BEING A COLLECTION OF

EASY AND USEFUL SENTENCES

IN THE MANDARIN DIALECT

WITH A VOCABULARY

BY

HERBERT A. GILES, M. A., LL.D. (Aberdeen)

Professor of Chinese in the University of Cambridge.

EIGHTH EDITION

PRINTED AND PUBLISHED BY

KELLY AND WALSH, LIMITED, SHANGHAI
 * }


text: Page:Chinese without a teacher - being a collection of easy and useful sentences.djvu/2


text: Page:Chinese without a teacher - being a collection of easy and useful sentences.djvu/3


text: Page:Chinese without a teacher - being a collection of easy and useful sentences.djvu/4


text: Page:Chinese without a teacher - being a collection of easy and useful sentences.djvu/6


text:
Page:Chinese without a teacher - being a collection of easy and useful sentences.djvu/8

1.—Do not sound the romanised letters.

2.—Wherever an inverted comma occurs, put in a strong aspirate.

3.—Ow is to be pronounced throughout as in how, and ü as in German, or as the French u.

All other combinations are to be pronounced strictly according to the requirements of the English alphabet.


text: Page:Explorers and Travellers - Greely - 1904.djvu/1


text: Page:Explorers and Travellers - Greely - 1904.djvu/400


text: Page:Explorers and Travellers - Greely - 1904.djvu/399


text:
User:Lonewolf123

Hello,

My name is Jesel (je=he as in *ha*rrowing, sel=as in cell). I live in Florida. I'm new, made this quite recently, so very new to wiki-procedure, though I have been using Wikipedia for quite some time. I hope to make many contributions to projects involved in science, especially physics, philosophy, especially Eastern and South Asian, languages, etc. I am of Puerto Rican heritage. I love history, philosophy, culture, languages, and science. I am also homosexual.

Hope to collaborate to do some translations of classical Chinese texts; notice there are not many on Wikisource.

title: User:Lonewolf123


text:
Category:Writing

Writing is the representation of language in a textual medium through the use of a set of signs or symbols (known as a writing system). It is distinguished from illustration, such as cave drawing and painting, and non-symbolic preservation of language via non-textual media, such as magnetic tape audio.

title: Category:Writing


text: Page:Explorers and Travellers - Greely - 1904.djvu/398


text: Page:Explorers and Travellers - Greely - 1904.djvu/397


text: Page:Explorers and Travellers - Greely - 1904.djvu/396


text: Page:Explorers and Travellers - Greely - 1904.djvu/395


text: Page:Explorers and Travellers - Greely - 1904.djvu/394


text: Index:Husbandman and Housewife 1820.djvu


text:
Page:Shaving Made Easy 1905.djvu/9

THE object of this little book is to furnish clear and full information about the art of shaving. There are few men who do not experience more or less difficulty in shaving themselves, and many who, after a few unsuccessful attempts, give it up in dispair and go to the barber shop. We believe most of these would much prefer to shave themselves if only they could do as well as a barber. The advantages, indeed, seem to be wholly with the man who shaves himself. In the first place the shaving is done in the privacy ifof [sic] his own room. He has his own razor, cup, soap, brush and towels, which can be kept scrupulously clean and sanitary. thus avoiding the

title: Page:Shaving Made Easy 1905.djvu/9


text:
Page:Husbandman and Housewife 1820.djvu/7

 THE AND A COLLECTION OF VALUABLE RECIPES AND DIRECTIONS, RELATING TO AGRICULTURE AND DOMESTIC ECONOMY. ............... BY THOMAS G. FESSENDEN. ...............

Boyle has observed, that the excellency of manufactures, and the facility of labour would be much promoted if the various expedients and contrivances, which lie concealed in private hands, were by reciprocal communications made generally known; for there are few operations that are not performed by one or other with some peculiar advantages, which though singly of little importance, would, by conjunction and concurrence, open new inlets to knowledge, and give new powers to diligence..........Johnson. BELLOWS FALLS: PRINTED BY BILL BLAKE & CO. 1820.


text:
Page:Shaving Made Easy 1905.djvu/10

 6 constant danger of infection. There is no long wait for the call of "next." After the first cost of the outfit there is nothing to pay, either for services or "tips." Thus in point of time, money and health, the man who shaves himself is a decided gainer.

There are few things in life that are really difficult to perform when one thoroughly knows how to do them. Shaving is no exception. The art of shaving can be easily acquired if one only has the will, and the necessary practical information. This book, which, as far as we are aware, is the only one treating the subject at all completely, endeavors to supply such information; as well for the improvement of men accustomed to shave themselves, as for the instruction of beginners. We believe that any man who will carefully read and follow the instructions here given, will, with some little practice, soon be able to shave himself easily and even better than the barber can do it for him.

title: Page:Shaving Made Easy 1905.djvu/10


text:
Page:Shaving Made Easy 1905.djvu/19

 Rh be had in either half, three-quarters, or full concave. The full concave blade is of course the thinnest. In view of the fact that the thinner the edge the sharper the instrument, most purchasers of a razor quite naturally conclude that the full concave blade is the best. Our impression is that this is a mistake; that the full concave blade is not so good for shaving most beards as the three-quarters concave. In a very deeply hollow ground razor, the blade is ground extremely thin, back to a line some distance from the edge. When such an edge—almost as thin as paper—comes in contact with a stiff beard, unless the the blade is held very flat upon the face, it is quite likely to bend and spring, and a cut will be the result.

.

The width of the blade is another point that should receive attention. As a rule we believe the beginner selects too wide a blade. A comparatively narrow one, in the size known as the 4-8 is the

title: Page:Shaving Made Easy 1905.djvu/19


text:
Page:Shaving Made Easy 1905.djvu/21

Rh best for most purposes, as it does not spring on the face so readily as the wide blade, yet it follows the contours of the face more closely, and in general is managed more easily.

.

The point of the razor ought to be slightly rounded as shown in the illustration

While this is seemingly a small matter, yet a sharp point has probably occasioned more cuts than almost any

title: Page:Shaving Made Easy 1905.djvu/21


text: Portal talk:Bibliography and Library Science


text:
User talk:JamAKiska/Archive 1

Disambiguation
Hang on there, the DNB disambiguation is by dates only. Per WikiProject DNB/Style Manual, section on disambiguation, we use the birth, death or floruit dates to disambiguate. While there may be a few articles that have not been brought into line, that is the guideline. Charles Matthews (talk) 19:26, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the reformatting of that page. Will use your edit as the baseline to start connecting the links. Going back to page one edit, John St. John (d. 1596) is buried in Oliver St. John DNB article. Other links should be good. Time permitting ???, I'll research JStJ to piece together an article if desired. JamAKiska (talk) 22:42, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

 * Stumbled across an example today that had the year of death in February prior to 1750. The other editor converted the date of death to the N.S. or 1619 in this case, which is the date that I used (d.1619) for the link. JamAKiska (talk) 01:23, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Re the vandal
We have taken stronger defensive measures against the vandal and the source of the vandalism. The information about this vandalism has also been shared wider across WMF for those that need to manage such situations. If they continue to do this type of issue the defensive level will continue to be raised, and we will escalate our response. — billinghurst  sDrewth  03:26, 26 March 2010 (UTC)

Volume 28
Your doing a grand job on this volume. I was thinking it was beyond me but two of us may make a dent in this volume. You are doing very well! I'm trying to assist you. Tell me it you feel stalked. Cheers Victuallers (talk) 16:08, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Yep its looking like the "end of the beginning". Vol 28 looks good. Not sure I'm intrigued enough by the Hunter Kidney ... bit I did look with a smile and got as fas as this Victuallers (talk) 09:18, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

indent?
Regarding your style edits, eg., why add an indent to that line? Beside being a smaller block, the text is separated by a blank line. Afaik, this is the style at DNB and it is the widespread convention on other pages. This works for the reader across wikimedia, including, of course, millions of articles at wikipedia. Cygnis insignis (talk) 17:17, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Part A of the Style manuel. JamAKiska (talk) 17:30, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

 * If you mean 'retaining formatting', the section is quite detailed on what has been retained. "Why not?" ... As I say, the convention has been to not retain the indent at the start of a paragraph - that print style was needed when they were too cheap to put a blankline. Like justification, it is no longer considered a benefit to readers. The best reason is it leaves you free to do your more useful and welcome contribs, as described in the first line of 'Part A'. Regards, Cygnis insignis (talk) 18:13, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

 * No doubt that this is in the grey...'preserve the look of the original as much as possible.' Authenticity comes to mind for starters, the sense of the original, which is my impression of what Wikisource is about.  Why use italicized text?  Why did you indent your response to me?  For me, the formatted text appearance, complete with indentations, provides the look of authenticity to the work.  So as I continue to develop my skills at duplicating 'the look,' of which the last paragraph is simply a first step... I wanted to see the effect, and I am quite happy with it (motivation). :-)  While it might be considered 'cruel' to mandate this format, is it not reasonable to retain the option for those that value this form of authenticity? (I completely understand about the two-column thing.)  For me, a slow typist, probably takes 15 seconds to achieve the 'look' for each paragraph within an entire article, compared to the 15-to-20 minutes of otherwise spent time [to me, this ever so small amount of time spent editing is reasonable].  If it is all about efficiency, I would be advising sculptures to stop after the first cut.  Could you imagine David with just one cut?...due to 'the convention.'  Thank-you, belatedly, for your help with that reference back in March. :-} that helped quite a bit for a newbie like me.  Your point is well taken, in a great many cases, efficiency is beneficial.  JamAKiska (talk) 22:01, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

 * If we are to indent in a traditional sense, I would rather that we did it with a HTML/CSS compliant scheme rather than adding shreds of template fuzzy template. Such that we use  or a template that does it. Personally, I forego indents in most namespace articles.  With regard to works of art, they were what the artist envisaged, and with our bits that is the works, not the typesetting. MOO. — billinghurst  sDrewth  23:36, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

 * Deciding what formatting to preserve can be viewed with the following as a guide. Readers want the content, a 'type transcription', so preserve the meaningful formatting. If they want the 'feel' of photo-facsimile they have the scan at the link, attempting to reproduce that on a web-page is redundant. Using an indent instead of, or as well as, a blankline to indicate a paragraph in the main text is needless. When the text is unjustified, with hyphens and columns removed, it is the wrong element to include; this style is widely preferred because it is simple and it works.  Cygnis insignis (talk) 17:37, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

 * We are in violent agreement on the content aspect of this discussion. The content was identical, only the presentation varied, a matter of style.  As you noticed the indents on a few pages, I noticed the absence of them.  While it may be redundant to the original, most new readers do not understand the access the links provide.  In addition, your argument ignores the human experience, and the power of selection.  I am a big fan of keep it simple so that it works.  That being said, performance should not be ignored, nor should style, within reason, as they may provide the 'spark' for that lone reader (try some poems).  I find it surprising, that a blank line in code, format depending, would take up more space than four or five characters at the beginning of just one line.  If there is a template available that performs this function (to help simplify this formatting issue), would it not be wise to 'test it' and let the readers decide through their selections, (maybe try one volume with this template).  While this decision is not my call, I inadvertently gave you feedback as I explored options along my journey, as that is my nature.  And you noticed (which is good), and that is yours.  JamAKiska (talk) 22:16, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Vol 28
Brilliant ! Victuallers (talk) 21:45, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Hookers
I happen to know this one: Author:William Jackson Hooker is the father of Author:Joseph Dalton Hooker, I think that "William Joseph Hooker" is an error. Cygnis insignis (talk) 22:10, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks...That makes sense and aligns with snippets from Richard and John Hooker articles in volume 27 as well (W. J. Hooker). Am gathering any links like this and storing, currently in previous Blind links discussion, to be moved to a more convenient, and formatted location, at some point in the not too distant future. The current list is up to nine. I am counting on the corporate knowledge to give guidance following their research into the matter. JamAKiska (talk) 22:49, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

(Blind Links)
 * Andrew Broughton, regicide.

'':Rev. John Cotton (d. 1652). in 1901 Vol. II''(f)
 * John de Critz, a painter.
 * Herbert, John Alexander Cameron, war correspondent.
 * John Hoffner, fellow painter.
 * William Joseph Hooker. The [q.v.] links to vol 27 article on his son, William Jackson Hooker, currently unwritten.
 * Edward Howard, 9th Duke of Norfolk
 * Gustavus Hume (Irish surgeon) wiki link to Hume street, Dublin.
 * John Lawson (16th c. educator).
 * John Lucas, Lord, older surviving (?) brother.
 * Howel ab Morgan. Should be a peer of Gruffydd ap Rhydderch.
 * Thomas Neeve, nephew of Richard Bentley (scholar).
 * Sir Edward Ponynges
 * John Roper, AG to Henry VIII.
 * Francis Sandys (Georgian architect)
 * Dr. (Alexander) Torriano
 * Vanbleek or Van Bluck.
 * Robert Walker (1709-1802) but does not match the description found in this version of Walker, Robert (DNB00) article.
 * William Weston (author) who published book in 1747

Leitch, William Leighton (DNB00)
Can't get the second page of the text to show up on this DNB entry. I have double-checked work using another users entry as an example but I can't work out what has gone wrong.

Briggs, Henry Perronet (DNB00)
Another problem on this entry. It shows "no such index". Also the page "Briggs, Henry Peronet (DNB00)" needs deleting as it has the wrong spelling.

 * That's a small issue: the volume is always two digits, so here needs to be 06. Charles Matthews (talk) 10:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

patrolling
Do you realise you marked a large page blanking as patrolled? Cygnis insignis (talk) 14:56, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Well, the alternative did not seem like the correct course of action at that time. Was there something else that should have been accomplished? JamAKiska (talk) 15:50, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * What was the alternative? Cygnis insignis (talk) 16:48, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Ignore the situation and continue with the work at hand. It seemed to me that you would be able to restore the page yourself, and at least the person performing this action would be aware that someone noticed their unusual activity very shortly after the act. JamAKiska (talk) 17:03, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Then you need to find out about patrolling, it means "I checked this, it was fine, no further action needed". The same page was blanked yesterday, I thought nothing of it appearing on my watchlist at first glance. An archive does not trigger a new message banner. The alternative here would be more useful for a couple of reasons, another would have been to undo the edit. Cygnis insignis (talk) 17:31, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed, which was my first thought; however, that option was not available on the page I was viewing, only "mark as patrolled". JamAKiska (talk) 17:44, 5 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll put up a proposal for a link "ignore this page". Cygnis insignis (talk) 18:25, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

links
You are aware there is no consensus for non-local links in the DNB, and that annotations require a clean text to be made available? Cygnis insignis (talk) 20:59, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks much JamAKiska for the Rose fix but most of all for fixing the link to it on my page. Thanks again. Daytrivia (talk) 17:04, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

title: User talk:JamAKiska/Archive 1


text: Index:Meat for Thrifty Meals.djvu

title: Index:Meat for Thrifty Meals.djvu


text:
User talk:Lonewolf123

Hello, everybody. This is my discussion/talk page. If I can help in any project you may have, please let me know.

WikiProject Translation
You may be interested in a newly-formed WikiProject: WikiProject Translation. The goal is inter-wiki collaboration with the aim of making source texts available in multiple languages. Please feel free to express any ideas, concerns, or questions at the project talk page. Best, --Eliyak T · C 08:46, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much for letting me know. O.J.S. (talk) 20:24, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Page deletion
I deleted Book 1 for obvious reasons (and easy to accidentally create:), but you may want to check that the work Mozi is correctly arranged. Regards, CYGNIS INSIGNIS 17:51, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:Lonewolf123


text:
Translation:Mozi

Book 1

 * Make Close the Scholars
 * Self-Cultivation
 * That Which Is Affectable
 * Methods and Standards
 * The Seven Worries

Licensing
墨子

title: Translation:Mozi


text:
Page:Weird Tales volume 36 number 01.djvu/23

Rh and Government buildings in Whitehall.

Trafalgar Square contained more dead than even the space outside the depot. He spared them only a glance. The air was chill, and the hunger that sleep had held off had returned. He drove to a big restaurant three hundred yards away, and, somewhat timidly despite all he had seen, walked in.

The restaurant had been full. He halted at a table at which a middle-aged man had sat. On it were beef, ham, cakes, bread and butter, a pot of tea. Standing, he snatched food in both hands, and as he ate wolfishly from one, the other was stretched for still more. But he could not eat as much as he had expected; his stomach had been used to little.

He was thirsty. The long-cold tea cut the saliva from his tongue; still, it was bitter, and he set the pot, from which he had gulped, back with a crash. He remembered that he was in the less-expensive section. He returned to the entrance-hall, stepped over bodies of waiters and others, and went up the broad stairs.

Bottles and glasses stood on a table near the cashier's desk in the second dining-room. He poured a glass of wine. He swallowed it in a second, poured and drank another; and, a little less quickly, another. His body began to tingle; he lost awareness of blistered feet and sticky clothes.

"This is something like it!" said Penderby.

Bottle and glass on knees, he sat on a chair he had drawn a little apart, and mused in a mingling of contentment and glee.

His mind suddenly seized on the fact that the dead he faced had been more than well-to-do. He leaped onto the chair, waved bottle and glass aloft, and cried:

"Silence!"

His voice mounted to a singsong screech:

"Ladies and gentlemen! Ladies and gentlemen! You simply cannot know the pleasure it gives me to be with you this morning! There's a slight difference, to be sure, between your standing and mine just now, but you're big enough to overlook it, aren't you?

"Well, ladies and gentlemen of the upper crust, I give you"

There Penderby paused.

"What do I give you?"

He rubbed his forehead with the wet bottle-spout.

"I've got it! I give you discontent, disappointment, starvation, clothes the dogs bark at—and a happy death!"

He drank the toast, sent bottle and glass sliding and spinning along the waxed floor, and ran down the stairs. He was exhilarated as never before; he was triumphant.

Strand, London's most famous thoroughfare, which leads from Trafalgar Square to Fleet Street, was strewn with dead. They had fallen at bus stops, in late-shutting stores (lights in some of these burned still), on pedestrian crossings, in busses and automobiles that had crashed against one another and in places formed a barrier from wall to wall. Here and there, wheels had squeezed blood into oozy patches.

A bus had shattered a café window, and spilled cakes and pastries onto the sidewalk. Another had snapped an electric-light post, and wires lay in curls and tangles for sixty yards.

One wing of a Rolls-Royce, a white-haired woman in the back, had littered a section of pavement with the plate glass of a clothing-store.

Penderby climbed in, and in ten minutes was wearing a tweed jacket, flannel trousers, a gray shirt, light underwear, clean socks, and a yellow belt. He took a pair


text:
Author:Elias Burton Holmes

Books

 * Seoul, the capital of Korea (1901)
 * The Burton Holmes lectures (1901):
 * Volume 1
 * Volume 2
 * Volume 3
 * Volume 4
 * Volume 5
 * Volume 6
 * Volume 7
 * Volume 8
 * Volume 9
 * Volume 10

Filmography

 * Luzon Lingerie (1905), as producer, screenwriter, and editor

title: Author:Elias Burton Holmes


text: Meat for Thrifty Meals

title: Meat for Thrifty Meals


text:
User talk:87.175.148.30

Welcome

Hello, and welcome to Wikisource! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

 * Help pages
 * Style Guide
 * Inclusion policy

You are welcome to continue editing articles without logging in, but you may wish to  [ create an account] . Doing so is free, requires no personal information, and provides several benefits. For one thing, if you continue to edit without a username, your IP address is used to publicly identify you.

In any case, I hope you enjoy donating your time to grow the Wikisource library that is free for everyone to use! In discussions, please sign your comments using four tildes ( ~ ); this will automatically produce your IP address (or username if you're logged in) and the date. If you need help, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question here (click  [ edit] ) and place  before your question. Again, welcome! — billinghurst  sDrewth  23:45, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

title: User talk:87.175.148.30


text:
Page:Language and the Study of Language.djvu/178

156 changes a language may undergo, they must all be shared in by the whole community. The idiosyncrasies, the sharp angles and jutting corners, of every man's idiom must be worn off by attrition against those with which it comes in contact in the ordinary intercourse of life, that the common tongue may become a rounded unit. This does not imply an absolute identity of dialect, down to the smallest details, among all the constituent members of a community; within certain limits—which, though not strictly definable, are sufficiently distinct and coercive to answer their practical purpose perfectly well—each one may be as original as he pleases: he may push his oddity and obscurity to the very verge of the whimsical and the incomprehensible—or even beyond it, if he do not mind being misunderstood and laughed at; if his sense of his own individuality be so exaggerated that he is a whole community, a world, to himself. Nor must the word community, as used with reference to language, be taken in a too restricted or definite sense. It has various degrees of extension, and bounds within bounds: the same person may belong to more than one community, using in each a different idiom. For instance: I have, as we may suppose, a kind of home dialect, containing a certain proportion of baby-talk, and a larger of favourite colloquialisms, which would sound a little queerly, if they were not unintelligible, to any one outside of my family circle; as an artisan, pursuing a special branch of manufacture or trade, or as one engaged in a particular profession, or study, or department of art, I am a member of another community, speaking a language to some extent peculiar, and which would be understood neither by my wife and children nor by the majority of speakers of English. Thus, I may have dived deep into the mysteries of some scheme of transcendental philosophy, or searched and pondered the ultimate physical constitution of atoms; and, if I should discourse to a general audience of that which to me is full of profoundest significance and interest, while one out of twenty, perhaps, would follow me with admiring appreciation, to the other nineteen I should seem an incomprehensible ranter. But even as a general speaker of English,


text:
Page:Language and the Study of Language.djvu/179

IV.] qualified to meet and converse intelligently with others who claim the same title, upon matters of import to us all, I may have my speech marked more or less strongly with local or personal peculiarities; it may exhibit unusual tones of utterance, or unusual turns of phrase, which, if I would be readily and thoroughly understood, I must endeavour to avoid. Now all these differences of speech, limited as their range may be, are in their essential nature dialectic; the distinction between such idioms, as we may properly style them, and well-marked dialects, or related but independent languages, is one, not of kind, but only of degree. For I also possess a considerable portion of my language in common with the Netherlander, the German, and the Swede, to say nothing of my remoter relations, the Russian, the Persian, and the Hindu; and if, in talking with any one of them, I could only manage to leave out of my conversation such words as belong to my dialect alone, and moreover, not to pronounce the rest with such a local peculiarity of tone, nor give them such special shades of meaning, he and I might get along together famously, each of us understanding all the other said. I can, indeed, make calculations and compose mathematical formulas with him all day long; or, if we are chemists, we can compare our views as to the constitution of all substances, organic and inorganic, to our mutual edification; since, as regards their mathematical and chemical language, their systems of notation and nomenclature, all who share European civilization form but a single community.

There is room, then, for all that diversity which was shown in our first lecture to belong to the speech of different individuals and different classes in the same community, along with that general correspondence which makes them speakers of the same language. The influence of community works in various degrees, and within various limits, according to the nature and extent of the community by which it is exercised. The whim of a child and the assent of its parents may make a change in the family idiom; the consent of all the artisans in a certain branch of mechanical labour is enough to give a new term the right to stand in


text:
Page:Peter and Wendy.djvu/162

Rh of special attention we nobly return for it, confident that we shall be rewarded instead of smacked.

So great indeed was their faith in a mother's love that they felt they could afford to be callous for a bit longer.

But there was one there who knew better, and when Wendy finished he uttered a hollow groan.

"What is it, Peter?" she cried, running to him, thinking he was ill. She felt him solicitously, lower down than his chest. "Where is it, Peter?"

"It isn't that kind of pain," Peter replied darkly.

"Then what kind is it?"

"Wendy, you are wrong about mothers."

They all gathered round him in affright, so alarming was his agitation; and with a fine candour he told them what he had hitherto concealed.

"Long ago," he said, "I thought like you that my mother would always keep the window open for me, so I stayed away for moons and moons and moons, and then flew back; but the window was barred, for mother had forgotten all about me, and there was another little boy sleeping in my bed."

I am not sure that this was true, but Peter thought it was true; and it scared them.

"Are you sure mothers are like that?"

"Yes."

So this was the truth about mothers. The toads!

Still it is best to be careful; and no one knows Rh

title: Page:Peter and Wendy.djvu/162


text:
Page:Peter and Wendy.djvu/163

Rh so quickly as a child when he should give in. "Wendy, let us go home," cried John and Michael together.

Yes," she said, clutching them.

"Not to-night?" asked the lost boys bewildered. They knew in what they called their hearts that one can get on quite well without a mother, and that it is only the mothers who think you can't.

"At once," Wendy replied resolutely, for the horrible thought had come to her: "Perhaps mother is in half mourning by this time."

This dread made her forgetful of what must be Peter's feelings, and she said to him rather sharply, "Peter, will you make the necessary arrangements?"

"If you wish it," he replied, as coolly as if she had asked him to pass the nuts.

Not so much as a sorry-to-lose-you between them! If she did not mind the parting, he was going to show her, was Peter, that neither did he.

But of course he cared very much; and he was so full of wrath against grown-ups, who, as usual, were spoiling everything, that as soon as he got inside his tree he breathed intentionally quick short breaths at the rate of about five to a second. He did this because there is a saying in the Neverland that, every time you breathe, a grown-up dies; and Peter was killing them off vindictively as fast as possible. Rh

title: Page:Peter and Wendy.djvu/163


text:
Page:Peter and Wendy.djvu/164

Rh Then having given the necessary instructions to the redskins he returned to the home, where an unworthy scene had been enacted in his absence. Panic-stricken at the thought of losing Wendy the lost boys had advanced upon her threateningly.

"It will be worse than before she came," they cried.

"We shan't let her go."

"Let's keep her prisoner."

"Ay, chain her up."

In her extremity an instinct told her to which of them to turn.

"Tootles," she cried, "I appeal to you."

Was it not strange? she appealed to Tootles, quite the silliest one.

Grandly, however, did Tootles respond. For that one moment he dropped his silliness and spoke with dignity.

"I am just Tootles," he said, "and nobody minds me. But the first who does not behave to Wendy like an English gentleman I will blood him severely."

He drew his hanger; and for that instant his sun was at noon. The others held back uneasily. Then Peter returned, and they saw at once that they would get no support from him. He would keep no girl in the Neverland against her will.

"Wendy," he said, striding up and down, "I Rh

title: Page:Peter and Wendy.djvu/164


text:
Page:Peter and Wendy.djvu/165

Rh have asked the redskins to guide you through the wood, as flying tires you so."

"Thank you, Peter."

"Then," he continued, in the short sharp voice of one accustomed to be obeyed, "Tinker Bell will take you across the sea. Wake her, Nibs."

Nibs had to knock twice before he got an answer, though Tink had really been sitting up in bed listening for some time.

"Who are you? How dare you? Go away," she cried.

"You are to get up, Tink," Nibs called, "and take Wendy on a journey."

Of course Tink had been delighted to hear that Wendy was going; but she was jolly well determined not to be her courier, and she said so in still more offensive language. Then she pretended to be asleep again.

"She says she won't!" Nibs exclaimed, aghast at such insubordination, whereupon Peter went sternly toward the young lady's chamber.

"Tink," he rapped out, "if you don't get up and dress at once I will open the curtains, and then we shall all see you in your negligée."

This made her leap to the floor. "Who said I wasn't getting up?" she cried.

In the meantime the boys were gazing very forlornly at Wendy, now equipped with John and Michael for the journey. By this time they were Rh

title: Page:Peter and Wendy.djvu/165


text:
Page:Language and the Study of Language.djvu/180

158 their technical vocabulary; the majority of good writers and speakers of English is the only authority which can make a word good English in the part of our tongue that we all alike use and value; while all the learned of Europe must join together, in order to alter the notation of a number, or the symbol of a chemical element. But the principle is everywhere the same: as mutual intelligibility is the bond which makes the unity of a language, so the necessity of mutual intelligibility is the power which preserves and perpetuates that unity.

If communication is thus the assimilating force which averages and harmonizes the effects of discordant individual action on language, keeping it, notwithstanding its incessant changes, the same to all the members of the same community, then it is clear that everything which narrows communication, and tends to the isolation of communities, favours the separation of a language into dialects; while all that extends communication, and strengthens the ties which bind together the parts of a community, tends to preserve the homogeneity of speech. Suppose a race, occupying a certain tract of country, to possess a single tongue, which all understand and use alike: then, so long as the race is confined within narrow limits, however rapidly its language may yield to the irresistible forces which produce linguistic growth, all will learn from each, and each from all; and, from generation to generation, every man will understand his neighbour, whatever difficulty he might find in conversing with the spirit of his great-grandfather, or some yet remoter ancestor. But if the race grows in numbers, spreading itself over region after region, sending out colonies to distant lands, its uniformity of speech is exposed to serious danger, and can only be saved by specially favouring circumstances and conditions. And these conditions are yet more exclusively of an external character than those which, as we lately saw, determine the mode and rate of linguistic change in general: they consist mainly in the kind and degree of culture enjoyed and the effects which this naturally produces. In a low state of civilization, the maintenance of community over a wide extent of country is altogether impracticable; the tendency


text:
Page:Peter and Wendy.djvu/166

Rh dejected, not merely because they were about to lose her, but also because they felt that she was going off to something nice to which they had not been invited. Novelty was beckoning to them as usual.

Crediting them with a nobler feeling, Wendy melted.

"Dear ones," she said, "if you will all come with me I feel almost sure I can get my father and mother to adopt you."

The invitation was meant specially for Peter, but each of the boys was thinking exclusively of himself, and at once they jumped with joy.

"But won't they think us rather a handful?" Nibs asked in the middle of his jump.

"Oh no," said Wendy, rapidly thinking it out, "it will only mean having a few beds in the drawing-room; they can be hidden behind screens on first Thursdays."

"Peter, can we go?" they all cried imploringly. They took it for granted that if they went he would go also, but really they scarcely cared. Thus children are ever ready, when novelty knocks, to desert their dearest ones.

"All right," Peter replied with a bitter smile, and immediately they rushed to get their things.

"And now, Peter," Wendy said, thinking she had put everything right, "I am going to give you your medicine before you go." She loved to give Rh

title: Page:Peter and Wendy.djvu/166